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  1. #1915
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCane  [View Original Post]
    What I often say is that it isn't "freedom" that some people are talking about, but rather "license" (the ability to act with wantonness or disregard). People (especially Americans) are quick to assert their rights, but not too quick to acknowledge their obligations. They're all about freedom of self-expression, but have little time for self-restraint. It's all about them and what they want to do (or not do) when and where and how.
    Freedom is a very broad subject. I see little point on criticising or objecting to someone else's interpretation of it unless it is clear in what sense they are referring to it. One could mean freedom of choice, freedom of expression, of movement, from prison. There are countless ways in which we can discuss freedom.

    A great example of it is when I discuss politics with liberals or conservatives. Typically they insist that they would hate to live under communism or socialism bcos it would take away their freedom. BUt, apart from that being a complete misunderstanding of both communism or socialism, I typcially respond with. So when we consider freedom, we cannot simply think of our own personal liberty, we need to consider that of society as well, because it is a part of us; it is who we are. There is no freedom in notions of exploitation, individualisation and atomisation. Freedom is found in egalitarianism, in the common good of constructing an ideal world for all sentient beings.

    "To be free is not merely to cast off one's own chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others". Nelson Mandela.

    So I think first we need to understand well what freedom we are talking about.

  2. #1914
    Quote Originally Posted by MarquisdeSade1  [View Original Post]
    Hear hear .... awesome quote
    That's 2 friendly replies in one day. Whats wrong w you? Were you drunk? Hehe.

  3. #1913

    Preach!

    Quote Originally Posted by JjBee62  [View Original Post]
    Most people don't understand freedom. What they want instead of freedom, which you already have, is freedom from consequences. Anything you can imagine you have the freedom to attempt. However, others and society have the freedom to halt your attempt, or impose consequences. The consequences are often not equitably applied, but they are there. You're free not to get vaccinated, but like everything else, there may be consequences.
    Amen brother! What I often say is that it isn't "freedom" that some people are talking about, but rather "license" (the ability to act with wantonness or disregard). People (especially Americans) are quick to assert their rights, but not too quick to acknowledge their obligations. They're all about freedom of self-expression, but have little time for self-restraint. It's all about them and what they want to do (or not do) when and where and how. But you know what? If you don't want to get vaccinated? Fine. But, you're not going to have your cake and eat it too. There will be consequences. You don't get to travel and / or you have restrictions placed upon you that the vaccinated traveler doesn't face. Don't want to vaccinate your kids either? OK, then they don't get to go to school. And when you get up tomorrow morning? You just may not have a job to go to that pays your bills. Consequences! Do as you please. But you best be prepared to accept the consequences. Far too many people aren't. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Nope! When it comes to fighting COVID, we're done with that. Get vaxxed or get axed! As they say in Thailand, up to you.

  4. #1912

    Simple questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEnternational  [View Original Post]
    ---SNIP--- Same as me being a military veteran.
    Were you "forced" to get vaccinated during basic training? Was every recruit? Did they have a choice?

  5. #1911
    What's the matter coward? Don't have a passport to prove your extensive mongering experience? Jajaj LOL. You've gotten exposed and ran out of the threads lmao. Haven't seen anything so pathetic jajaj.

  6. #1910
    Quote Originally Posted by FunLuvr  [View Original Post]
    Please list any member of the "right-wing" who is advocating for others to not get vaccinated. As for politics, this is what Kamala Harris said about the vaccine in the Vice Presidential debate in October of last year "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.".
    I'll just list one: Rand Paul.

    As for your closing comment, let me put it into perspective. If your local garbage collector tells you that you need to have a double bypass surgery, are you going to rush to the hospital to schedule the surgery? Or would you take the advice of a cardiologist over the advice of a garbage collector on matters of cardiology? Take all the time you need to think it over.

    Has the light bulb clicked on yet?

    If you go back and read your quote here's what it boils down to:

    If Fauci said get the vaccine and Trump said don't get the vaccine, she would have gotten the vaccine. If Fauci said get the vaccine and Trump said get the vaccine, she would have gotten the vaccine. If both said don't get the vaccine, she wouldn't have gotten the vaccine. However, if Fauci said don't get the vaccine, but Trump said get the vaccine, she would have taken the advice of someone who is recognized around the world as one of the foremost experts over someone with zero credentials.

    Does that seem wrong to you? Because it seems perfectly normal to me.

    If the advice of someone who knows absolutely nothing about a subject runs contrary to the advice of all the experts on the subject, it doesn't seem difficult to decide which path to take. If all the experts on the subject give advice, do you wait to find out if the person who knows nothing on the subject agrees, before making a decision?

    And it doesn't matter to me whether the advice comes from a Republican or Democrat. I refuse to consider medical advice from someone who is not qualified over someone who is qualified.

  7. #1909

    Hear hear

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEnternational  [View Original Post]
    I am not anti-vax. I am anti hypocritical bullshit. My country has a history of preaching one thing and practicing another. You better not have slaves and treat people bad, meanwhile we are over here with slaves and treating people bad. Where did Adolf Hitler say he got his way of doing things? He just followed the example of America.

    They fill the population with BS to get them to do what they want. Why is it not mandatory for the mfs that are making laws for everyone to be vaccinated to be vaccinated themselves? That is some red flag do what we say and not what we do stuff to me.

    Why was everybody heros for going out bravely working during the pandemic when there was no vaccine to speak of, and now those same people are billed as selfish pieces of shit not even worthy of having a job when they want to forego taking the vaccine and risking their own lives same as before? Same as me being a military veteran. Thanks for your service to the country, but fuck you you do not deserve shit because you don't want to take a vaccine.

    This kind of shit just gets my goat. I am called free as long as I am doing what you are making me do. The minute I no longer want to follow the path that I am pushed into, freedom REVOKED! The pandemic has definitely shown me that this freedom rhetoric is definitely a sham.
    https://amgreatness.com/2021/10/22/l...arian-control/

  8. #1908

    Awesome quote

    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]
    "We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy. " ― Chris Hedges.
    Chris Hedges is a very intelligent writer.

  9. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by FunLuvr  [View Original Post]
    Please list any member of the "right-wing" who is advocating for others to not get vaccinated. As for politics, this is what Kamala Harris said about the vaccine in the Vice Presidential debate in October of last year "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.".
    Tucker Carlson is one. To anyone outsdie the USA, Kamala Harris is also right wing. And Joe Biden. They certainly lie like right wingers.

  10. #1906
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEnternational  [View Original Post]
    I am not anti-vax. I am anti hypocritical bullshit. My country has a history of preaching one thing and practicing another. You better not have slaves and treat people bad, meanwhile we are over here with slaves and treating people bad. Where did Adolf Hitler say he got his way of doing things? He just followed the example of America.

    They fill the population with BS to get them to do what they want. Why is it not mandatory for the mfs that are making laws for everyone to be vaccinated to be vaccinated themselves? That is some red flag do what we say and not what we do stuff to me.

    Why was everybody heros for going out bravely working during the pandemic when there was no vaccine to speak of, and now those same people are billed as selfish pieces of shit not even worthy of having a job when they want to forego taking the vaccine and risking their own lives same as before? Same as me being a military veteran. Thanks for your service to the country, but fuck you you do not deserve shit because you don't want to take a vaccine..
    Some thoughts about your rant.

    If you do some checking you will find many who are supporting vaccination posted publicly when they were vaccinated. But to turn it around why is it acceptable for someone who got the vaccine to urge people to not get vaccinated. I believe you'll find that is much more common than what you suggested.

    Maybe there were some drastic changes between when I served and when you served. When I was in boot camp. They didn't ask me how I wanted my hair cut, didn't ask what style of uniforms I wanted to wear and didn't ask which vaccines I wanted. They didn't even tell me which vaccines I was receiving. They also didn't ask if my wisdom teeth were causing me any problem. They just told me they were going to remove them. So the idea that members of the military should be allowed to make decisions about vaccines is completely foreign to me.

    When you swear the oath, you hand your balls to the government, knowing they are under no obligation to return them.

    Most people don't understand freedom. What they want instead of freedom, which you already have, is freedom from consequences. Anything you can imagine you have the freedom to attempt. However, others and society have the freedom to halt your attempt, or impose consequences. The consequences are often not equitably applied, but they are there.

    You're free not to get vaccinated, but like everything else, there may be consequences. Just about everywhere has rules about acceptable behavior, acceptable speech, acceptable clothing, even acceptable extracurricular activities. If you're on a flight bound for Barranquilla and it turns around because some passenger is exercising his freedom which is against airline regulations, are you going to be mad at the airline for restricting freedom, or at the guy who started screaming about having to wear a mask?

    A white supervisor at my company was just fired this week for a remark he made to a black employee. I didn't witness the exchange, and I don't know if his meaning was racist, but what he said certainly qualifies as racist language. What are your thoughts about his freedom?

    One final not. Didn't you post something about using someone else's Covid test results, and about faking a vaccination card? I either fundamentally different from someone who is unvaccinated mandating vaccination?

  11. #1905
    Quote Originally Posted by LoveItHere69  [View Original Post]
    Oh, wonderful doctors who created the super bacteria by prescribing antibiotics for everything, even a scratch. Doctors give antibiotics for the flu, and yet the flu is a virus not a bacteria. The flu can cause other problems which do require antibiotics. I have talked to several nurses about this and they say the doctor gives the fussy parent the antibiotic as a placebo just to get the parent and the kid out the door. Kids lose their teeth all the time with no problems. Now dentists hand out antibiotics for that. I never had an infection from a pulled or lost tooth.

    The reason doctors are always late is that they are busy talking to pharmaceutical sales representatives in the hallway between patients. My cousin was a new pharmaceutical sales representative 20 years ago. He was given a company credit card with $35,000 to spend on the receptionist, nurses, and doctors on flowers, food, etc. He could get in trouble if he did not spend the money. Pharma buying doctors and ethics there. Does the opioid crisis ring a bell?

    Doctors implanting basketball sized silicone boobs. That even defies all sense of logic. Doctors take several ethics classes so how the hell do silicone boobs even exist in the first place?

    Doctors have no common sense now like in the days of the past. The doctors used to ask tons of questions to help solve the problem. Now the doctor asks maybe 3 questions and then it is off to get a ton of X-rays, crap and urine tests, and a whole plethora of blood tests. I would take a doctor practicing in the 60's, 70's, or 80's before any of the current doctors out there.
    I have 3 doctors, a family practice doctor and 2 specialists. I've never had one of them be late. My last visit I was called in before I could fill out the questionnaire, and I had arrived 20 minutes early. Each of them ask several questions and take the time to discuss my condition, treatment and where we are headed.

    I've had doctors like you described, but I replace any who don't meet my needs.

    As for why there are silicone implants, I know of one reason. My wife had a double radical mastectomy. Which means her breasts were completely removed. She was given implants, which allowed her to retain her feminine shape.

    If you want to go off on a rant, why don't you mention ED drugs, hair loss drugs and therapies and all the rest?

  12. #1904
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnClayton  [View Original Post]
    I don't hate those cops and firemen who are refusing the vaccine on the grounds of "personal freedom", I just think they're being incredibly stupid. They are victims of this pernicious anti-vaccine propaganda, which is being promulgated by the right wing for purely political reasons.
    Please list any member of the "right-wing" who is advocating for others to not get vaccinated. As for politics, this is what Kamala Harris said about the vaccine in the Vice Presidential debate in October of last year "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.".

  13. #1903
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]
    I hope I did a reasonable job of supporting my position too.
    I would probably want you on my debate team (as long as we did not physically have to be in the same room) because you were able to come up with some ideas to support a position that is just plain unsustainable, wrong, and dangerous. Your analogies in your prior post were completely ridiculous because learning disabled people getting run over is not contagious and viruses ARE. But you don't care about who you infect as all your arguments are based on what's best for YOU and your fringy beliefs about vivisection and whatnot.

  14. #1902

    Example

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEnternational  [View Original Post]
    Where did Adolf Hitler say he got his way of doing things? He just followed the example of America.
    And that of the Ottomans regarding the Armenians.

  15. #1901
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEnternational  [View Original Post]
    My country has a history of preaching one thing and practicing another.
    I am called free as long as I am doing what you are making me do. The minute I no longer want to follow the path that I am pushed into, freedom REVOKED! The pandemic has definitely shown me that this freedom rhetoric is definitely a sham.
    "We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy. " ― Chris Hedges.

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