General Info

[FunExplorer]

Dear all,

I am an occasional monger from India having travelled to most of the south east Asian countries. Some business opportunities bring me to the FKKland. Having heard so much and read so much, want to ensure that do not miss the opportunity for the same. Have done some RTTF over the forums and there seems to be so much information. I shall be based for a couple of days in Frankfurt.

Would really appreciate if fellow mongers could share some light on following:

- Discrimination against Indians. From what I understand most of the FKKs near Frankfurt there should not be any issues. Also without any German knowledge, will there be any challenges?

- Best FKK to visit near Frankfurt which is both convenient considering I am not driving and shall use a public transport and also which shall give the best experience in terms of quality as well as service?.

1. Usually there is no discrimination. After all girls are interested in money and your ethnicity does not matter.

2. Most girls speak English and therefore your not knowing German does not matter much.

3. I would rate Share as the place to go in Frankfurt.

4. There is wealth of information if you care to go through 50 pages back!

Have fun.

[TimePassPune]

Dear all,

I am an occasional monger from India having travelled to most of the south east Asian countries. Some business opportunities bring me to the FKKland. Having heard so much and read so much, want to ensure that do not miss the opportunity for the same. Have done some RTTF over the forums and there seems to be so much information. I shall be based for a couple of days in Frankfurt.

Would really appreciate if fellow mongers could share some light on following:

- Discrimination against Indians. From what I understand most of the FKKs near Frankfurt there should not be any issues. Also without any German knowledge, will there be any challenges?

- Best FKK to visit near Frankfurt which is both convenient considering I am not driving and shall use a public transport and also which shall give the best experience in terms of quality as well as service?

- Generally which club has more couch action. I understand Oase is the one to go for the same?

- Which should be the best day and time to visit the club?

Am sure all of these questions have been asked multiple times but guess if you guys could share in 1 report would surely appreciate the same.

Cheers and happy mongering.

Tp.

[Sirioja]

4000 CHF is equal to 3400 , I'd like to be a waiter in this country.

Average salary in Switzerland is more than 4000 CHF.

[BigBuddy69]

4000 CHF is equal to 3400 €, I'd like to be a waiter in this country.

[Polyamorist]

In clubs where tourists do not dominate I think your points are not so persuasive since there are repeat local customers who read the excellent local forums we high give clear girl by girl assessments and often the guys know each other. Here we have an informed clientele. In such clubs one can often see a beautiful gazelle sitting unemployed for hours whilst plain girls are busy: a reflection of their respective service reputations.

So true, Optimus Prime. I was in a club with a good local clientele recently and I talked to a girl and asked her how business was, and she said, "Not good, I only make about 3000-4000 CHF a month. " I was stunned, because she was the most beautiful girl in the club. A waitress would make more than that here!

She was trying to be friendly with me. She was a stunner and I wanted to go with her, but there was something about her many negative comments which made me feel she could turn bad in the room.

Later on, I was talking to a confident Bulgarian girl. She had been in the club a long time and was making a lot of money, even though she was a bit less attractive, what I would call a 7. I happened to mention the other girl's plight to her, and she smiled slyly and said, "It's not always about looks".

Anyway, if someone wants to make the argument, "Scam artists are absolutely right to try to scam people because in tourist clubs they could make a lot of money," there's a very simple conclusion to be drawn: "Don't go to tourist clubs".

[Pistons]

Any discussion needs profound criticisms, and I feel McAdonis listed most of them.

But I also don't feel his arguments cover 100% of the clientelle. Maybe it covers 50 or even 70% of the clientelle. In either cases that means a drop off at 30% or 50%. Or maybe just 10%. But a 10% loss, is still a loss.

But as soon as these absolute numbers fall to 90,70% or even 50%, the new mongers may turn more hardcore and read up on stuff. Thus entering the market Optimist talks about, and the drop of may increase another 10 or 20%.

What saves some girls with poor service or high upsells is thus the constant influx of new mongers in the first category. And as time goes by, over half of them get funneled out, and the repeats are lost.

If upselling and reduced interactions in the room passes the threshold where the drop of is higher than the influx of new mongers, the total market shrinks. And as far as I can tell, that is where we are at the moment.

You mention yourself as someone not liking clubs with bad customer service reviews, so yourself is one example of this theory holding up as well.

[ExpatLover]

I hate scam artists. I try not to patronize any club where management does not hold the WGs accountable or take customer complaints seriously.

At the same time, I am not surprised that your attempts to convince them were an utter failure. Optimist, I know you are diplomatic and have the common sense to exercise tact, but people don't like being told that they are not doing their job correctly, especially young, headstrong people who already think they know everything. I am surprised the WGs didn't take offense to the notion that you know more about their jobs than they do..

Correct I will never report about a girl just because I think it is useless, chemistry between people is the key for nice sessions, the girls are not a product they have the right to do things with one monger but not with the other, some girls will never go with Turkish guys or with black one, or with Indian or with old guys like me. The non selective girls are usually not my type at all.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I hate scam artists. I try not to patronize any club where management does not hold the WGs accountable or take customer complaints seriously.

At the same time, I am not surprised that your attempts to convince them were an utter failure. Optimist, I know you are diplomatic and have the common sense to exercise tact, but people don't like being told that they are not doing their job correctly, especially young, headstrong people who already think they know everything. I am surprised the WGs didn't take offense to the notion that you know more about their jobs than they do.

I too used to believe, "these scam artist WGs are so stupid and short-sighted. Don't they see that they are damaging their brand and long term earning potential". But it has become so prevalent, that I question those beliefs now. Surely the younger WGs are watching, observing, and mimicking those WGs that came before them. They see which WGs are making money and which ones aren't. Therefore they must have come to the conclusion that the scam artist approach produces results. Am I giving the WGs too much credit for having the intelligence to learn by observation?.

For instance, I know one group of about five guys who monger regularly together. For some of the higher optic WGs.

Are these 5 Asian tourists?

[Optimist]

McAdonis. Well argued persuasive points.

The girls did not take offence but argued their cases forcefully with me. I did not lecture them ((I have only discussed this with such girls in maybe half a dozen cases) but dealt with it more as a suggestion and discussion. In reply they made points similar to you plus referred to examples of guys who paid huge sums for short periods in rooms saying, for example, that they could afford to lose 10 50 euro rooms in order to get the chance of one room for 500 an hour (when a known big payer was in the club)

I fear, as you fear and for the reasons you suggest, that in tourist clubs at least, the balance continues to shift so that short term overcharging is in fact also the most lucrative long term option for a girl.

In clubs where tourists do not dominate I think your points are not so persuasive since there are repeat local customers who read the excellent local forums we high give clear girl by girl assessments and often the guys know each other. Here we have an informed clientele. In such clubs one can often see a beautiful gazelle sitting unemployed for hours whilst plain girls are busy: a reflection of their respective service reputations.

Of course, some girls agree with me, but these are the ones who are already doing what I think is good practice: good service for repeat custom. I was in these cases just reinforcing their views

[McAdonis]

I have failed completely to convince any girl who scams tourists of the logic. As someone (Polyamorist) said, the girls create a longer term hidden loss for themselves for the buzz of a short term high / profit.

I hate scam artists. I try not to patronize any club where management does not hold the WGs accountable or take customer complaints seriously.

At the same time, I am not surprised that your attempts to convince them were an utter failure. Optimist, I know you are diplomatic and have the common sense to exercise tact, but people don't like being told that they are not doing their job correctly, especially young, headstrong people who already think they know everything. I am surprised the WGs didn't take offense to the notion that you know more about their jobs than they do.

I too used to believe, "these scam artist WGs are so stupid and short-sighted. Don't they see that they are damaging their brand and long term earning potential". But it has become so prevalent, that I question those beliefs now. Surely the younger WGs are watching, observing, and mimicking those WGs that came before them. They see which WGs are making money and which ones aren't. Therefore they must have come to the conclusion that the scam artist approach produces results. Am I giving the WGs too much credit for having the intelligence to learn by observation?

Reviews matter for restaurants and hotels, but maybe not so much for WGs. Monger characteristics are slightly different:

1. Many mongers don't repeat even if they have a thoroughly good session. There was no "spark". Or the monger just has insatiable need to try new WGs.

2. Many mongers don't write on forums or talk to other mongers while in the club, so they don't actually enhance a WG's brand via word-of-mouth.

3. Many mongers don't have encyclopedic knowledge of the service reputation for each WG. From speaking to others, I have found that most mongers who attend regularly indeed read the forums, but many just skim reports and really only know the "service reputation" of the most-mentioned WGs.

4. Many mongers use recommendations only as a "guide" and sometimes ignore them altogether. For instance, I know one group of about five guys who monger regularly together. For some of the higher optic WGs, there will be cases where each guy has sessioned the same WG, despite the fact that all of them considered her "Mediocre no repeat. Too much upsell". What lesson did this WG take away from this experience? Well, I say it was reinforcement of bad behavior: "I gave mediocre service to all friends in this group, yet over the last six months each of them still decided to take me to the room. Negative reviews must not matter".

[MarquisdeSade1]

Sayyid Pistons: it's not because the market is saturated that there are no new FKKs. It's because in 2017, the German government sent a big signal that it is hostile to FKKs. It increased raids, restricted immigration, imposed registration, etc. No sane moneymaker would want to start an FKK in this adverse legal climate.

Time for mongers to get the message and move on. Evolution is about adaptation and migration.

Touche.

When I go in to Sharks on a cold rainy Tuesday and its packed but I'm the only non Asian or Muslim in the place LOL.

I would say its time to move on to greener pastures.

[Rogue Nation]

So the idea of scamming a tourist might have worked 20 years ago, but not in 2018. Today it is like biting your own tail.

It does work for many girls as they have been around day by day in whatever club and so they seem to make enough money. Same for those clubs as they do not intervene.

[Optimist]

... scamming a tourist might have worked 20 years ago, but not in 2018. Today it is like biting your own tail.

Logically you are correct. But I have failed completely to convince any girl who scams tourists of the logic. As someone (Polyamorist) said, the girls create a longer term hidden loss for themselves for the buzz of a short term high / profit.

Personally I think there are many many more girls fleecing tourist than there were 16 years ago.

Cheers.

[Optimist]

Kosher. If the girl is the batsperson, I like to be at Silly Mid-On, waiting either to catch the prize or get smashed in the face. Life is not something to be taken as a tepid bath.

Often I have been in the baseball hole, waiting hours for my favourites, or in the case of Raissa at World the other day, waiting in the hope that the batter might eventually release her and remove the blindfold from my face. Unfortunately I never left the hole.

Piston and KK. I used to run imagining that it was a way of keeping ahead of the Grim Reaper. Now I think more that every fewer millimetre round my belly will at least make me less offensive to working girls. Although a better way would be to paste euros round my abdomen.

[Chongmal]

Good points! Well articulated.

I think one explanation, as RN mentioned, is that these girls are not well trained sales people looking out for maximization of long term earnings, but looking to take as much as possible in the immediate future from many punters. And they don't have any mentors to tell them differently. If anything, they learn from other girls who were there before and behave the same exact way.

To me it would be an interesting statistic to see the relationship between the entry price the club charges the woman compared to the amount of upselling by the women working in the club.

I was speaking to a woman who was an aggressive upseller, her asking would cost me minimum €200 per hour. I told her at her asking rates I was better off driving back to my regular area to hobby, eating €150 in petrol and a second club entry price, where I get €50/30 min sessions with all her extras included. She countered and told me that with her entry and nightly charge for a place to eat she would need five €50/30 min sessions before she made her first €15 of the day. When she had raised this to the club management she was told, many women working there are making money providing normarl services after one hour, she just needed a better approach. After a week of working there she had become an upselling queen. Another complaint she had about this club was the hands on approach by the male management and security team, taking liberties with frequent free touches and making comments that if she didn't like it they could send her on a vacation.

Some other clubs I attend with lower entry costs for both men and women, have lower rates per full 30 min sessions with DFK, BBBJ, DATY, CFS all included for €50 or less. Some clubs have a €30/20 min quicky for CBJ and CFS. I was speaking with a woman at one of these clubs and she said she was €10 in the positive after 2 x €40/30 min sessions, in a club where men rarely stay in the room after they finish even when the woman offers, so most sessions are 20 min or less. She did say a couple women complained about how much time she spent talking with me outside the room. I asked her about the hands on approach and she said, the male staff never touches any of the women. She included that they also made it clear that male clients should not me groping and touching outside of the paid session and she has been told on multiple occasions to notify them if a client or other staff member gets out of control. She told me she had worked at a club with nicer facilities, where two of the male managers, their friends and employees who worked in capacities outside the clubs all felt entitled to free access. She said she never expected she would like working at what appeared to be a much lesser club but that she was much happier feeling more respecting.