Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[McAdonis]

If you actually look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and then sort by deaths per 1 M population, the death rate in Sweden is actually not low relatively speaking, it is higher in some European countries but in most of these cases the countries were far more densely populated or affected on a larger scale much earlier on when the severity of the pandemic was not sufficiently recognized.

In addition to your suggestion to sort by deaths per million, I also sorted by infections per million. Despite the relaxed policy, Sweden's infections per million is lower than most of the larger countries in Western Europe. It could be that Swedish people are just more disciplined when it comes to isolating themselves, despite businesses being open. California is on lockdown, but just this past weekend there were huge crowds at Newport Beach. But as you said, Sweden is densely populated, relatively remote, and was affected later.

[ShooBree]

Respectfully disagree; Sweden has higher death rate in Europe compared to population. Maybe it was a price worth paying, that's another debate.

Sweden has a lower death rate than many other countries countries in Europe: Belgium, San Marino, Andorra, France, Italy, Spain, Netherlands and the UK. Switzerland and Ireland are barely better off.

[ShooBree]

That is what I think as well, in that case the optimistic projections of herd immunity by having this relaxed lockdown policy did not come to fruition. If you actually look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and then sort by deaths per 1 M population, the death rate in Sweden is actually not low relatively speaking, it is higher in some European countries but in most of these cases the countries were far more densely populated or affected on a larger scale much earlier on when the severity of the pandemic was not sufficiently recognized.

I actually hope that most estimates of the number of people with antibodies are undercounts since the testing for antibodies does not seem sufficiently reliable, I do hope it is an undercount not an over estimate.

However this death toll has not resulted in higher levels of immunity based upon just this figure alone, maybe there is more to this than the figure above.

Almost all of Western Europe is worse off than Sweden comparing deaths per million. Belgium, San Marino, Andorra, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Netherlands. Ireland and Switzerland are barely better off but paid a big price and it honestly wasn't worth it.

Sweden have counted more deaths outside of hospitals than many other countries. The numbers you are comparing aren't accurate. Which means that you're drawing false conclusions.

In Sweden more people are worried about the economy and we are not willing to sacrifice our economy and quality of life to do a lockdown that haven't produced any good results in other countries.

The countries that have had a lockdown have to open back up, and that's a real challenge!

I honestly don't understand the obsession comparing different countries, especially considering that it's not over yet and there are more factors to take into consideration than the number of deaths. The economy for example.

To wait for a vaccine is rather naive. Throughout human history the weak ones have died, nowadays people want to play God and can't accept the death of people over 70 and other weak humans.

Damn it, did the World go this mad during the HK flu?

[ShooBree]

Again wrong: Just check what is the percentage of the total population, even in Sweden, has been infected? Below 20 %, when you need 70% for decent "herd immunity" And whether being previously infected does protect is currently not proven. Good luck to my Swedish friends.

It can't be easy living life in fear. I feel sorry for the rest of you that are imprisoned in your own homes thanks to a failed lockdown by politicians that are afraid to lose the next election.

[Sirioja]

Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.

And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.

As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon!

I think smoking kill about 70/000 per year in France. I was surprised nicotine could protect versus virus which not develop so fast for smokers.

[Sirioja]

It is about Hygiene level. Asia is not clean beside Singapore and Japn and little bit south Korea.

Other thing is that not so much in singapoer and south Korea, but in case of Japan, when you enter home, we take our shoes off at the door, this helped a bit and also our Japanese bath culture, we take bath every single day, so it may help a bit too.

Avigan works within six weeks of infections. Germany is using it now and so as some other nations, and to be honest I imagine France too, I cannot be bother to check. I don't care about corona too much, it is not so big here yet, but it can get worst as we still has 20 % free bed in hospital, but if it get lower and heavy symptom get higher, we can destroy medical care system too, but Avigan is working, so usually it does not go to heavy symptom then death. However, it is not vaccines for this, it is for birdflu originally.

As for your comments about cancers, diabetes, fat people etc. It is minority not all people have that, in France it is over 20000 people dead. This is war level number of people and I don't think it is just because they were all cancer, diabetes or fat etc. It is destruction of medical system. France has same level of medical system as Japan, USA or Germany or similar nations, so 20000 death is because hospital was over loaded with patients, some who did not need to come to hospital. It is rather governments fault as they should have restricted who comes to hospitals and who get tested based on symptom to control the visitors of hospitals.

But hey, we got summer coming, so let see if weather fix it temporary or not.

Arithmetic: only about 6% infected in France = 4 millions, can become a problem after confined on 11 May, about 30.000 deaths unfortunately = 0,8 % death rate. 80 % older than 70 and 67% of others had disease making weak to virus, so around 2000 deaths with no reason known before virus. Some make violent reaction under virus. Unfortunately, like in US or UK, we are discovering more and more obese and diabetic in France, under MacDo and Cola, weak versus virus. France never missed free beds, moving improving cases to make free for worst cases. 181 were moved out of France. No proof chloroquine is efficient versus virus, I don't hear about avigan in France, but most of deaths were not so healthy before virus. I think being healthy is best medicine versus virus, even more efficient than mask. Masks are more not to infect others. Many were infected and didn't even know about.

[Delta Indigo]

20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.

That is what I think as well, in that case the optimistic projections of herd immunity by having this relaxed lockdown policy did not come to fruition. If you actually look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and then sort by deaths per 1 M population, the death rate in Sweden is actually not low relatively speaking, it is higher in some European countries but in most of these cases the countries were far more densely populated or affected on a larger scale much earlier on when the severity of the pandemic was not sufficiently recognized.

I actually hope that most estimates of the number of people with antibodies are undercounts since the testing for antibodies does not seem sufficiently reliable, I do hope it is an undercount not an over estimate.

However this death toll has not resulted in higher levels of immunity based upon just this figure alone, maybe there is more to this than the figure above.

[Sirioja]

It is bit too late for that, those nations who focused on death rate as I have been saying from beginning with preferably balanced lock down and not no lock down or total lock down (which did not work due to crazy death rates in those nations who did), did better at saving lives.

Plus it is to do with medical quality, Avigan works for mild symptom, within first 6 weeks since infection, but Japan cannot produce mega amount in just few weeks, but first 5 million pill are to be dispatch to 20 nations in may and it is free, so people in those 20 nations has access to it and it should be cheap as Japan is giving it for free. Our FKK land Germany is using Avigan as well, so may hope some tutes we knows life if they are infected. This is originally made for bird flu and side effect avoidance is for pregnant women. It can be used for old people etc.

There also is another medicine made by USA which is working, but it is strong one which is originally for Ebola, so I don't know the effect on body. But that is also working on mild symptom.

However, in case like these, beside medicine, usually nations do what they believe is best and they won't listen till things are too late. Even with mask, they did not listen saying it did not work based on usual western narrow minded stereo type that are still 50 years ago, mask is not so much to prevent you from getting infected, but it is more for giving virus to other people, it stop that to great extent..

Unfortunately, UK may be above 40.000 deaths, France now above 30.000, with only 6% infected = 0,8 % death rate, with 80% older than 70. US don't really know about millions without insurance and illegals, but poverty kill. I confirm figures are not so much about medical power and potential, but much more about how we live, really mirror for society. Asians already experienced and are used to masks, but we will discover more reliable figures in China. Not so sure recovering make immunity for some, but we will judge in future.

[Borrop74]

20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.

Well done, Dreams!

I really praise your effort to review and correct this and several other arbitrary and incorrect statements written on this subject by fellow forum members.

I agree with all yours, which are based on facts and valid sources.

[Turgid]

You beat me to it! The Ruskies are going to have another field day this fall. Sigh!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-elisa-granato

I've been searching through my fb page to determine which media outlet I got that news item from without success. They must have removed it. A pity as I would like to unfollow whichever it was.

[Dreams]

20 % of hospital personnel in Stockholm immune.

And this was among people who had "protected" outfit.

20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.

[Dreams]

Please ignore this, fake news and lies.

She is alive and well.

Such rubbish written on this and other sites about Covid-19.

Sadly true. Would be laughable if not so sad.

[Dreams]

It is bit too late for that, those nations who focused on death rate as I have been saying from beginning with preferably balanced lock down and not no lock down or total lock down (which did not work due to crazy death rates in those nations who did), did better at saving lives.

Plus it is to do with medical quality, Avigan works for mild symptom, within first 6 weeks since infection, but Japan cannot produce mega amount in just few weeks, but first 5 million pill are to be dispatch to 20 nations in may and it is free, so people in those 20 nations has access to it and it should be cheap as Japan is giving it for free. Our FKK land Germany is using Avigan as well, so may hope some tutes we knows life if they are infected. This is originally made for bird flu and side effect avoidance is for pregnant women. It can be used for old people etc.

There also is another medicine made by USA which is working, but it is strong one which is originally for Ebola, so I don't know the effect on body. But that is also working on mild symptom.

However, in case like these, beside medicine, usually nations do what they believe is best and they won't listen till things are too late. Even with mask, they did not listen saying it did not work based on usual western narrow minded stereo type that are still 50 years ago, mask is not so much to prevent you from getting infected, but it is more for giving virus to other people, it stop that to great extent.

Additionally, not all nations can produce medical equipment, so those nations who cannot produce their own medical equipment like life supporting system, artificial lungs etc. Had to deal with limited equipment to extent where doctors had to choose who get those equipment or those who should be left to die..

Please give us a link to the clinical tral proving that Avigan works. For the record 99.5% of all people inflected recover without any treatment. So does your miracle drug increase to, what, 99.9%.

[Dreams]

It is about Hygiene level. Asia is not clean beside Singapore and Japn and little bit south Korea.

. It is minority not all people have that, in France it is over 20000 people dead. This is war level number of people and I don't think it is just because they were all cancer, diabetes or fat etc. It is destruction of medical system. France has same level of medical system as Japan, USA or Germany or similar nations, so 20000 death is because hospital was over loaded with patients, some who did not need to come to hospital. It is rather governments fault as they should have restricted who comes to hospitals and who get tested based on symptom to control the visitors of hospitals.

But hey, we got summer coming, so let see if weather fix it temporary or not.

Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.

And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.

As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon!

[Dreams]

Yes, catching and recovering = immune.

Definitely.

WHO and China spread fake news that there is no immunity.

But there is a Hidden Agenda.

China WANTS the U.S. and Europe to lock-down, so China can gain economic advantages.

New BIG immunity test undertaken in Stockholm will be presented in news tomorrow.

I will then link.

Provisonal estimates show "considerably higher immunity" than Chinese tests (2-3 % immune = fake).

Please give us links to your sources. About guaranteed immunity? You are surely working in a top virology lab, I guess.