Safe Sex and Sex Related Discussions in Thailand

[Member #3409]

I think discussion of what activities are risky or not so risky is far more worthwhile than debating whether one girl is more risky than another.
If the right precautions are taken the girl's background history becomes an insignificant factor which is just as well since we will never know what the background is for a new aquantaince.
Any normal girl is a high risk if she has ever had unprotected sex in the few months before her last blood test (or anytime after) if she had one.
Now all of that is really unknown, ain't it.

Am I feeling lucky today, punk? (Sorry Clint)
Better to protect all risky activities. I don't beleive in luck.
Shit happens all the time.

Spot on mate.

[Brain666]

Brain666,

I gave a couple of explanations why a younger girl could pose a higher risk than an older one opposite to Giotto's risk assessment. I also provided a few examples/reasons why a gogo girl can pose a much higher risk than a bar girl even though Giotto tries to tell us that gogo girls are less risky than bar girls.


Yes so what?. This is statistics and probability. With the basic understanding how statistics works it is well known, that to every 80% probability there are the other 20% examples not applying. Otherwise it would be 100%. And I remember only words like more/ less/ equal in Giotto’s text and never ‘full’, ‘no’ ‘0%’, ‘100%’


Brain666,

In short, we have absolutely no way to tell how risky an unknown sex partner is. Therefore we should treat them all the same.




Yes, so what? The result of our guess is an assumption. And we can fail. Therefore the advise is right, but also very obvious.


Brain666,

.....

Giotto's advice points into a complete different direction. He told us, that he will be more or less careful or better careless depending on his assumptions about a person.

I never read/ interpreted/ understood Giotto's risk assessment this way and I can't believe that there is a high number of mongers who understood it that way. I rather think you either really missunderstand it or you try to assume something between the lines.


Brain666,

.....

He calls those assumptions "decision matrix" but they are nothing but assumptions as he doesn't know anything about the girls in question, especially nothing about their health status, preferred sexual practices and partners and so on. Therefore his risk assessment is completely use- and worthless.




Yes the nature of risk assessment and risk factors is that you can fail in your assessment. Otherwise it wouldn’t be called assessment. Simply saying that if your risk assessment results in E.g. 90 % aids free asssumption, it still means 10% chance that you just got the unlucky 10% with aids.


Brain666,

.....

If you decide to have sex with an unknown partner be as careful as possible, don't differentiate and don't believe that one may be more or less risky. Don't lie to yourself !

It is Obvious to be as careful as possible. But as you write: It is just as possible. And as possible includes still accepting a remaining risk different from 0.

Also you yourself accept a remaining risk with every girl you have sex with, with every protection measures you may use doing it with her. I don't believe that you don't 'check' or select your girl besides others also in terms of health risk before you ‘act’.

We all have a decision matrix for every sex partner we use. There is looks, there are other social factors, there is an interesting job, just to name some which makes us decide to think on sexual intercourse with a woman, and there are risk factors, such as being witnessed by wife, by colleagues and the potential health risk of an unknown women.

It is a decision matrix we go through with every sexual intercourse we plan which results in a simple yes or no (sometimes its just a yes or no to try ). So don’t tell me that before you have sex with a girl you don’t ‘walk’ through some kind of ‘brain work’ (if you don’t like the word ‘decision matrix, or risk assessment) to decide for yes or no to go for it.

Regards

Brain666

[Petemcc]

Gentlemen, what the fuck is the debate about?
There is no matrix, it is black or white. One decides if it is worth fucking someone without a condom, or not. There is no way one can tell on the basis of age, gender, occupation etc if the other person has any kind of STI/STD ( depends on language).
The safe way, as I have said before is assume that everyone is infectious. How in the name of fuck can one tell that an educated female lawyer will not have a horrible STI? So what she is educated, but she may fuck a client who is an AIDS ridden fuckhead- don't laugh, it happens. How the fuck can one stereotype?

When I say assume they are infectious, I don't mean treat them like some lepor, but someone with whom someone should take all necessary precautions. This doesn't mean a body suit or a post coital shower in bleach, but simply wearing a condom and reducing the risk factors to minimal.

When one has a monogymous relationship with another, and it is known to be such, and there is, trust/knowledge that no sexual diseases are involved, then it is apt to decide that the risk factor is minimal.

Imagine this: Someone like Opebo, who is by all accounts fairly articulate and charming, fucks some part-time prostitute- maybe a decent girl who needs a few thousand Bhat and turns a trick. He gives her a dose of whatever. Three months later, said same girl meets you, she is hard-up, says she has no regular BF, she has had no symptoms of any STI/STD- common! She fucks you, no condom, because she has no boyfriend, not had one for months, risk factor low! Is it fuck low.
Without a full history of who and when a girl fucked someone, one can never know their status.
The decision is this: I fuck someone without a condom, who WILL have fucked someone before, that person may have any STI, I don't know, and she won't tell OR I will fuck someone with a condom, tha person may have an STI, I don't tell, and she won't tell, but I will not take the chance.

Matrix, bollocks. Even a virgin cannot be guaranteed STI free. Someone can shoot a wad outside her **** and it can go inside. She may be an IV drug user- do you know? Are profesional people not users?
I could go on, but hopefully the pointis taken!

[Finrod]

Pete is on target here. When the typical traveling monger lands in Thailand for his week of cavorting, he isn't going to know any girls well enough to do the analysis and he certainly can't trust them to tell him the truth about how old they are, let alone how long they've been working. Heck, even good non-p4p women often have no honor around this; that last is definitely not limited to Thailand.

Yes there are exceptions like Opebo who has his own rationalizations, but most of us like being disease-free and staying that way. So it's on with the condom for FS. Every time. Less worry that way. Other activities like DFK, BBBJ and DATY, I treat as discretionary depending on how the girl looks and smells, but I recognize that is not foolproof.

[The Traveler]

Traveler, could you please take this to the Fight Club thread. It's between you and Giotto. I am sorry, but we all seem to miss the finer points of your argument about Giotto's staement. So take it to the Fight Club and thrash it out there.
Duni,

with all due respect, but it was directed at Brain666, not Giotto.
Besides missing the point you seem not be able to read either.

[The Traveler]

I think discussion of what activities are risky or not so risky is far more worthwhile than debating whether one girl is more risky than another.
If the right precautions are taken the girl's background history becomes an insignificant factor which is just as well since we will never know what the background is for a new aquantaince.
Any normal girl is a high risk if she has ever had unprotected sex in the few months before her last blood test (or anytime after) if she had one.
Now all of that is really unknown, ain't it.

Am I feeling lucky today, punk? (Sorry Clint)
Better to protect all risky activities. I don't beleive in luck.
Shit happens all the time.
Mick Licker,

I totally agree.
My question directed at Giotto regarding which of the girls is more risky due to his risk assessment rules should only show that those rules are nonsense due to the already mentioned reasons.

I knew from the very beginning that he would refrain to answer for obvious reasons.

[The Traveler]

Brain666,

since all your answer were "YES" I really don't know why you disagree with what I said about Giotto's risk assessment rules.

I also allow myself to cite Giotto "There is a selected number of girls which I have a little bit more fun then normal Before taking that risk I do some basic layman medical checks (should mention that I have a EMT education):"

So Doc Giotto's sex practices depend on his assumptions regarding the health status of his partners. If he believes/assumes that they are less risky he will do additional sex practices like oral e.g.
How could I forget that you (or at least Doc Giotto) can see and smell HIV, Syphilis, Hep A,B,C and other nasty deseases, especially in their very early stages, right ?

Due to Giotto, an educated, young, good looking girl - if wealthy even better - is very unlikely a risk. Damn, how does it come that nobody told the HIV virus not to infect those people ? All those thousands and thousands of young, well educated and good looking people who died of AIDS could still be alive and the millions with STD/STI would have never been infected as well.

Pete got it completely right and just confirms what I am saying ever since : Expect all to be risky and act accordingly. You simply don't have enough info to put them in order and say who is more or less risky. Any attempt to do so is nonsense and you are just lying to yourself.

[Giotto]

Though I generally believe that all discussions about HIV / AIDS and the related risks are useful in general and help to fight the transmission of this disease it I would prefer to detach the argumentation from any personal aspects or wrong development of the past. It is a too important issue.

I was accused here of having given wrong advice and even worse to underestimate the infection risk, and I think everybody can understand that I don’t feel so well with this image. For that we should get things straight and have a short review of what was really written.

After my report about Biergarten Soi 7 and my STD warning in there I was asked by Peter Kin about my local viewpoint of site/bar/massage parlor related STD transmission risks:


Giotto

Thanks for the warning on STDs etc.
From your experience could you prepare a list of most likely to least likely for STDs etc for:
Biergarden, Streets, Nan, Cowboy, MPs etc etc.
A local viewpoint would be helpful
Peter
I thought about how I really evaluate risks, about my personal behavior, and found it interesting to try a report about that. Here a link to that report:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=499576

I started the report with a clear introduction, that all content of the report is my personal opinion, my personal norm to evaluate risks.


Due to the fact that I obviously have the talent and intention to open every possible can of worms I will try in this report to categorize and evaluate the risk factors for catching STDs in the Bangkok P4P scene. I refer to the question of Peter Kin some weeks ago.

Everything I write here is my personal opinion, my personal norm to evaluate the risk for each single experience.


1. Introduction

The general risk of catching STDs in the P4P scene in Bangkok is still high. Though the numbers of new HIV infections are falling in Thailand it should not be forgotten that we are not only talking about HIV. This might be the disease which scares us most, but there are other diseases which can cause severe damage to anybodies health, and additionally be spread further once you are infected. I only want to mention Hepatitis here, some types of this disease is about 100 times easier to transfer than HIV.

All these arguments cannot be used to justify the avoidance of using condoms. Condoms have to be used in any case, and under any circumstances.

There is no official empirical analysis available to measure the infection rates based on the classifications I defined. Everything I write here is simply based on my personal assumption, they are my personal conclusions. Nothing more than that.
I wrote very clearly:


All these arguments cannot be used to justify the avoidance of using condoms. Condoms have to be used in any case, and under any circumstances.
What followed then in that report was a list of risk factors which I am thinking about when I evaluate STD infection risks by contact with a woman/girl. This list was for sure not complete, and I remember some reports from others afterwards adding some additional risk factors to this list.

After this list of risk factors I then come to some conclusions which I experienced during writing the report. The first conclusion again refers again to unprotected sex, and gives the clear message that there is only one way for me to skip the condom, and that is after having performed the complete set of STD tests:


7.1. Tests

During writing this report I came to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter what I write here, it is somehow obsolete. There is only ONE way of being sure not to get infected – and that is a complete STD test for a sexual partner before performing any unprotected sex. And that also means to wait for at least 3 month to perform 2 AIDS tests – and during this 3 months ONLY protected activities!
Then second conclusion refers to oral sex, again clearly labeled as “My Personal Risk Assessment”:


7.2. My Personal Risk Assessment

First let me state very clearly that there is NO WAY for me to take the risk of performing unprotected sex with a girl from the P4P scene. I always use a condom – no exceptions.

The only risk I sometimes take is related to oral sex. There is a selected number of girls which I have a little bit more fun then normal with.
I came to the same conclusion as many others here in this thread.

The last sentence was now taken out of the context in one of the reports before in this thread: “There is a selected number of girls which I have a little bit more fun then normal with.” It is clearly stated what this risk I am willing to take refers to: The only risk I sometimes take is related to oral sex.

Now we can discuss the risks of oral sex, and the different opinions about that. There were some reports about this issue too. Anyway – such a discussion would be again helpful, if it is based on facts.

For me it became clear during writing the report that I use a decision matrix based on all the mentioned risk factors before only as an supporting tool for making a decision of taking the risk of oral sex. Additionally to this decision matrix I perform some checks before sex, and make the decision solely on the outcome of this checks, whether I will have oral sex with this woman or not. As soon as I have the slightest impression of missing cleanliness I will refrain from oral sex, that is the basic message. And as soon as there are clear indications of possible infections (eg. skin lesions) I even will not have protected sex with that woman/girl.

What followed then was a more or less heated discussion about microscopic cuts of the skin and the fact whether I have given an advice or not. My original report did not contain any warning towards microscopic cuts in the skin, so I decided to refer to this risk in some of the following reports. The discussion went then so far that there was even statements that you can get infected via the normal unbroken skin (non-mucous membrane), and I made clear that opinion is not supported by the actual HIV science. But other STDs can be transferred via the normal unbroken skin. And we forgot to discuss another issue: The we rub the body fluid from a woman/girl into our eyes – that is definitely a risk, if we have the fluid on our hands.

My report did not contain any advice to others, I only wrote about how I make decisions about how extensive a session can be.

During the last weeks then the risk factors were target of the discussion. I see no use to argue about that, because I was writing about my personal risk assessment. Others will have a different risk assessment. To know about this might have an influence on my future decision matrix about this issue, if I can follow their argumentation, but who can change the past. But even if this would be possible - there will still be risk factors and a decision matrix! It is basically that what happens in the brain when one tries to evaluate a general risk - written down in a report.

To a certain extend I am surprised that nobody up to now smiled about that and asked the question: Giotto, if you are going to have sex with a woman/girl, do you have a paper and a pen with you and fill out a risk assessment fact sheet first to evaluate the risk?

Combination of risks: There were examples of risks which were balancing each other (old/young combined with Freelancing/Beer Bar/Gogo Bar etc), and there were examples of mixed activities (Freelancing Gogo girls). Or course, that is what a risk assessment is all about, to evaluate those singe risks components and somehow get to a result, in which all risk factors are added up to one single number. Scale the risk factors based on what you personally think is an important one, evaluate them – and get a number/level. And this number then can be compared to your own personal maximum risk number/level you want to take.

In that specific report I finally then remind everybody to his own responsibility:


7.3. Protection and Responsibility

Finally – everybody please sits down and thinks for a minute before he gets involved in this game. You and only you are responsible for the level of protection you require. Do not expect the girl to ensure that you use a condom! You have to be prepared, you need to have condoms with you, and you have to make sure that you do not get into contact with any body fluids of the girl.
I find it quite difficult to misunderstand all that, but obviously it is possible.

If now the impression of readers is, that all the risk assessment attempt is not of any practical use, and that the only way to protect yourself is to use condoms and avoid any contact with body fluids of a woman then I will fully support that. Even if you make an risk assessment there stays a risk > 0 – and there should be no discussion necessary about that.

For this reason I added another issue in later posts, which I find much more interesting to discuss:

… Final Statement: The biggest risk factor are we ourselves, getting carried away during the sexual act and forgetting to use the condom. … Giotto
Compared to this risk all other risk factors related to the girls can be simply ignored! But the mentioned report was not about this risk, it was about site and girl related risks.

I personally doubt many “safest sex” statements here in this thread. To perform complete safe sex is nearly impossible and not really enjoyable (my POV). I discussed the issue with many of our hotel guests, and I know that a huge number (the majority) sometimes go bareback. I know the questions where to perform tests, after a guest gets carried away during a session. I know what the guests want when they ask me whether our girls are tested or not. I saw the fear in the faces of so many guys who lost control in the night before. All that is so human…

Some other issues I would like to add to the discussion, because it was not mentioned up to now:

Normal Skin Infection Risk

We never discussed the risk of the girl getting infected when giving us a hand job. If there is a risk of cuts in the fingers the girl should be at risk, following argumentation lines from before.

COF

The eyes are endangered, an easy entry point for many viruses and bacteria.

We don’t think too much about girls getting into contact with our body fluids, do we? We all like BBBJCIM?

Finally: Back to the risk assessments.

I would be interested in clear statements about personal behaviors. Who has never taken any risk during a P4P session? That means: Never touched a pussy (because of possible cuts in a finger), never got a BBBJ, never had sex without a condom, never eaten a pussy, always successfully avoided to get into any contact with the body fluid of a woman, etc. etc. …

I admit, that I sometimes take risks, and to decide with which woman I can take a certain risk I have my own risks assessment scheme. But – I always use condoms for intercourse.



Giotto

[M P Lurker]

I prepared to admit that some classes of girls are more risky than others statistically but do not wish to get involved in those arguments.
Anyway guys will just select the girls that appeal to them anyway.

Now suppose there is a problem with the precautions, e.g. condom slips off or breaks. These things have been known to happen accidentally occasionally.
Then need to rectify with the backup condoms immediately.
Always double check condom O.K. before orgasming (mainly for the girls sake)
After breaking condom girl will probably dash off and douse with something and be upset.
This is where the class of girl you are with might count for something.
I don't go for the cheapest of girls when mongering. I want the best and those groups more likely to have had real HIV tests would appeal even more.
Girls sometimes use sponges inside that cause can condoms to break through friction abrasion if longer than a cursory screw. I refuse to fuck girls using sponges no matter how much they deny it. Its either take it out or forget it.

If you are going to have sex with anyone regularly, then both should get HIV and other STD tested at the clinic for peace of mind, even though condoms might still be worn. Its just proving what you verbally claim.

My ex girlfriend expected me to be tested once every 4-6 months at least since she didn't trust me completely not to do anything stupid with another girl. I wasn't doing anything really stupid, but saw no harm in the tests at all (not expensive in Thailand).

[Opebo]

As regards Odepo: his attempt to break a condom seems bizarre as I cannot see how that would increase his physical enjoyment.

Surely you are pretending ignorance here, Martians. It is obvious that condomless sex will provide significantly more stimulation than sex with a condom. Many things can be attributed to personal taste - for example you may prefer a less intense sexual experience - but I think we can all agree that the actual nerves are stimulated more during bareback sex than when they are covered up by a layer of plastic.


However, his outback reports and his further evidence (with Asian Rain) of the prevalence of barebacking should give the more cautious food for thought. This shit about the quality of life (condomless) versus quantity (condom) should be addressed to HIV/STI sufferers.

If anyone thinks that most people in the world are going around putting up with the awkward, pleasureless activity of condom sex, he is a silly fool who has no understanding of human nature (or for that matter the human condition - which is one of incipient mortality anyway). This is why researchers are pursuing the idea of a lubricant or gel of some kind which kills HIV - because it will offer a protective measure which does not ruin the act which is, after all, the point of all our lives.

[M P Lurker]

Though I generally believe that all discussions about HIV / AIDS and the related risks are useful in general and help to fight the transmission of this disease it I would prefer to detach the argumentation from any personal aspects or wrong development of the past. It is a too important issue.
<cut>
Giotto
Very thoroughly covered again. Its hard to see why your comments were seen as controversial really. Everyone has their own views which cannot be always exactly the same.

Its just about being 99.999% sure of not dying through mongering and still getting to have some fun.
Whoops I went too far with 99.999.
Could easily die of a heart attack while fucking some sensational young sex goddess. But I don't think the risk is high enough to stop me.

[M P Lurker]

If anyone thinks that most people in the world are going around putting up with the awkward, pleasureless activity of condom sex
Most of us mongers have to put up with it, but its not 'pleasureless'. Still, mongers go hunting for several girls to fuck in a day, despite the condoms used. There must be pleasure. Its not all pure addiction with no pleasure.
The difference between no condom and a very good thin condom is there but not so much as to be worth very high risks for most of us.
I would agree that some condoms are in the lower pleasure category. I select my condoms very carefully to be comfortable fit and minimising pleasure reduction.

The barebackers are in the minority, and a dieing breed. They possibly rely on the fact that guys catch form girls with more difficulty than the reverse.
But if they bareback often enough in risky places, eventually statistical probability will catch up with them.
You can dash accross a multi lane freeway once and survive, but wouldn't keep every few minutes. Sooner or later you will get collected.
Of cause metaphors prove nothing and only illustrate a belief.

Its worth getting a regular girlfriend and eventually moving to unprotected sex with her, assuming you both can be trusted to behave appropriatly. Obviously some mongers/husbands/boyfriends cannot be trusted. Thats obviously why the girls die.

[Piper1]

The difference between no condom and a very good thin condom is there but not so much as to be worth very high risks for most of us.A nurse at a a safe-sex clinic once told me that a little lube on the knob before putting on a condom increases the "natural" feel dramatically. It works. (I still remember that honey of a nurse. They should only have ugly nurses checking out your equipment in a sex clinic. Just not fair).


The barebackers are in the minority, and a dying breed.
Was this double-entendre intentional? Pretty much sums it all up.

[Petemcc]

Come on boys, let's get it right here. Sex with a condom, sex without a condom: I have fucked many women without a condom- yeah, trusted ones, one of whom was my own mother-in-law, who had given birth. Not as tight as one could wish, but I got off, and enjoyed it- why? ...later.
I have fucked very, very tight Chinese and Thai girls with a condom, and yeah, again, enjoyed it, but in all honesty had I not used a condom I may not have lasted quite so long. My wife has had no children, and is as tight as she was 20 years ago. For some time I had to fuck her with a condom because she couldn't be on the pill and I was waiting for the snip. Granted, it wasn't quite as good, but I got off!

This is it. When you fuck someone, it could be anyone. Ultimately you will shoot your load. Is it not the case that the excitement is that you are shagging someone who you find attractive, and sexy, and who you would never normally be able to shag without paying?
If the difference to you is skin on skin, or skin on mucus membrane, and that is the only difference, between the girl and someone else, then please tell me if you have not lost the plot?

The excitement is shagging someone different. Suppose that someone different is a fucken stunner, but has had 10 kids, well, you wouldn't touch the sides, even without a condom. Suppose she is stunning, and tight, well, she will get you there . Shagging my mother in law was forbidden, different, and it wouldn't matter if I had used 30 condoms, she allowed me inside her!
What you are doing is shagging the girl, not her twat. One twat feels like another, with or without a condom. What is different is the girl you are shagging. If she does it for you, then it doesn't matter, slack ****, or condom, it is about the girl you are for that instant making love to.
That is my opinion

[Martians]

Others: Giotto has slapped in one of his mega essays siOdepo: nce my last post.
Odepo: I referred to you trying to break a condom as being bizarre. I cannot see the difference in enjoyment from a torn as opposed to an untorn condom. I have fucked countless (!) women bareback and condoms have broken on several occasions. They are not the same thing

Why did yioy confuse the two? We know why Giotta has his spam agenda here but what agenda have you?

[Opebo]

To be honest, they all feel tight to me, Peter.

[Piper1]

I have fucked many women without a condom... one of whom was my own mother-in-law, who had given birth. Not as tight as one could wish, but I got off, and enjoyed it... Hey, I remember seeing you and your two lovers fighting it out on the Jerry Springer show.

PS - Your mother-in-law had given birth? Really? Think about it.

[The Traveler]

I started the report with a clear introduction, that all content of the report is my personal opinion, my personal norm to evaluate risks.
...
During the last weeks then the risk factors were target of the discussion. I see no use to argue about that, because I was writing about my personal risk assessment. Others will have a different risk assessment.
...
I find it quite difficult to misunderstand all that, but obviously it is possible.

Giotto,

yes, you stated that the report contains your personal opinion but you simply forget what signals you are sending out to others.

Some in here - especially newbies - who may also be guests at your place may see you as an experienced monger who knows his shit. When being in a situation in which they have to decide to do certain sex practices or to even go bareback or not they may remember your risk assessment in which you clearly state that a younger girl is less risky than an older one and a gogo girl poses a smaller risk than a bar girl, who again poses a smaller risk than a freelancer.

Since they have met their girls in a gogo or even found them at your (hopefully controlled) place, they may rate the involved risk lower than it actually is due to your risk assessment.

Sure, it will be their decision but based on your risk assessment as they put some trust in you.

This is the reason why I think your risk assessment is dangerous as it seduces people and makes them believe that there is a way to rate the involved risks by simply looking at a few attributes of the girl.

You should know that there is no way to tell that one person poses a higher risk than another one. And that's the reason why you still avoid to answer my simple question in which I only combined two of your named factors.




I discussed the issue with many of our hotel guests, and I know that a huge number (the majority) sometimes go bareback. I know the questions where to perform tests, after a guest gets carried away during a session. I know what the guests want when they ask me whether our girls are tested or not. I saw the fear in the faces of so many guys who lost control in the night before. All that is so human…

Do I have to add anything, don't you just confirm my above concerns ?




And as soon as there are clear indications of possible infections (eg. skin lesions) I even will not have protected sex with that woman/girl.

What better indication for an infection do you need than swollen lymph nodess ?
But you still fuck a girl with swollen lymph nodes.


- Lymph Nodes: Swollen lymph nodes in the groin, under the arms, behind the lower jaw, cervix ?
----> If I find knots there – no contact with any body fluid, no oral sex!




- Smell: Vaginal odor after finger probe from deep inside?
----> If yes – no contact with any body fluid, no oral sex!

Additionally, anybody who follows your "check" scheme will put himself at great danger by putting his unprotected finger into her (eventually bloody) pussy. You say that you will avoid any contact with any body fluids. Hmm, didn't you already had contact with body fluids by sticking your finger DEEP inside her ? It's like putting your hand into a fire to check if it's still burning. But we already had that, didn't we ?




... The discussion went then so far that there was even statements that you can get infected via the normal unbroken skin (non-mucous membrane), ...

Hmm, haven't seen that. Please provide the source.




Combination of risks: There were examples of risks which were balancing each other (old/young combined with Freelancing/Beer Bar/Gogo Bar etc), and there were examples of mixed activities (Freelancing Gogo girls). Or course, that is what a risk assessment is all about, to evaluate those singe risks components and somehow get to a result, in which all risk factors are added up to one single number. Scale the risk factors based on what you personally think is an important one, evaluate them – and get a number/level. And this number then can be compared to your own personal maximum risk number/level you want to take.

Funny, now you hide your answer by saying those two factors are balancing each other, or in other words the risk that a young bargirl poses to you is equal to that of an older gogo girl.

OK, so age and workplace are equal factors. But what if the gogo girl also can be found freelancing at the Beergarden while the bargirl does not do freelancing. Wouldn't it lead to the conclusion - completely based on your risk assessment rules - that the young bar girl actually poses a smaller risk than the older freelancing gogo girl ?
You see, those risk assessments based on a few attributes are completely useless because you don't know shit about the girls.

I personally believe that your whole risk assessment is complete crap and that you don't follow your own decision matrix. Do you really think about all those attributes ? If you would, you would only target young, attractive, well educated, sexually disinterested, wealthy regulars who originate from Central Thailand and who you found in a High Class Club. They pose the least risk and therefore allow you to get the most satisfaction as the smaller risk allows you to perform certain sex practices besides being less concerned during sex which could kill the whole thing.

I rather follow Pete and believe men - me included - choose women simply by their looks and attitude. If she is cute and nice you want to fuck her, no matter where she comes from, how old, educated or wealthy she is or where you found her.

We pick who we pick and should be as careful as we can, never believing or assuming that one may be less risky than another as it could make us uncareful. Your above story about your guests speaks volumes about it.

[Giotto]

Giotto,

yes, you stated that the report contains your personal opinion but you simply forget what signals you are sending out to others. The Traveler,

the signal I send is mentioned in the first chapters of my report, not quoted by you:


All these arguments cannot be used to justify the avoidance of using condoms. Condoms have to be used in any case, and under any circumstances.
I think that readers/mongers/newbies reading this free of any fighting history Giotto/The Traveller will understand the message and intention of that report very well.




What better indication for an infection do you need than swollen lymph nodess ?
But you still fuck a girl with swollen lymph nodes. I answered:

----> If I find knots there – no contact with any body fluid, no oral sex! I think the answer is OK, but I agree – better send her home untouched, if you want to eliminate risk.




Hmm, haven't seen that. Please provide the source. Infection risk via normal skin. Your post:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=504660
That time you provided the following statement:


…
It's also not impossible for the HIV virus to pass through normal skin. It's only harder due to the callus on the surface, but not impossible.
…




Funny, now you hide your answer by saying those two factors are balancing each other, or in other words the risk that a young bargirl poses to you is equal to that of an older gogo girl. Hide? Why? That’s simply mathematics, that risk factors can balance each other…depending on the personal evaluation of each risk.




OK, so age and workplace are equal factors. I did not say that. I think you misunderstood this structure of the report all the time. It is up to your risk assessment which factor you evaluate higher. If you think the age is more significant as a factor than the workplace/site than you evaluate it accordingly. If you think it is not a real risk factor set your evaluation to zero, and it disappears. Decision matrix!




But what if the gogo girl also can be found freelancing at the Beergarden while the bargirl does not do freelancing. Wouldn't it lead to the conclusion - completely based on your risk assessment rules - that the young bar girl actually poses a smaller risk than the older freelancing gogo girl ? In my risk assessment I would always assume the highest risk option for a single risk factor (workplace is the factor in this case, age is a second factor, to be evaluated separately) - freelancing would cause a high risk assumption.



...Do you really think about all those attributes ? If you would, you would only target young, attractive, well educated, sexually disinterested, wealthy regulars who originate from Central Thailand and who you found in a High Class Club. They pose the least risk and therefore allow you to get the most satisfaction as the smaller risk allows you to perform certain sex practices besides being less concerned during sex which could kill the whole thing.In saying "They pose the least risk" you somehow confirm to have performed the same thing I was writing about: A Risk Assessment :) .

Come on man, seams to me that we both want the same thing, but we go different ways. We both use condoms, don't we?

-----

Oh, that reminds me, you did not answer MY questions :) :

"Finally: Back to the risk assessments.

I would be interested in clear statements about personal behaviors. Who has never taken any risk during a P4P session? That means: Never touched a pussy (because of possible cuts in a finger), never got a BBBJ, never had sex without a condom, never eaten a pussy, always successfully avoided to get into any contact with the body fluid of a woman, etc. etc. …"

???



Giotto

[Member #3409]

There are pages and pages of argument here about risk etc, but the bottom line is both Giotto and Traveller are right.

Giotto is right in the sense that certain girls are a different risk than others, it is all a matter of statistics and we to an extent live our lives to them, but I really cannot see why anyone would risk there lives by stats. We could all arugue to we are blue in the face about what those risks are and what percentage risk a fresh faced gogo girl has compared to a freelancer so I really cannot see the point to it. Trav and others are right in this sense that we should all be covering up and not fooling ourselves that we will be ok simply because we have choosen someone from a lower risk group. Sure the chances might be lower, but the chance is still there.

But the bottom line is there is a risk, there is a risk from the freelancers, the bargirls, the gogo girls, the officer girls and even our own ladies, including wives at home. For mine even if the risk of getting something off the 18yo gogo girl who has been working for a week is only 1% then that is 1% too much. The only risk I would take is with a women I loved and trusted who I was in a long term manogomous relationship with. At the moment I don't have that, if I did I wouldn't be punting.

[The Traveler]

I think that readers/mongers/newbies reading this free of any fighting history Giotto/The Traveller will understand the message and intention of that report very well.

Giotto,

whatever history we may have, my criticism is solely based on your report and I solely stick to what you have said, nothing more, nothing less.
Additionally I don't have any dislike in you as a person, I am not your enemy but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with you on everything you say and shout "hurray" each time you post something.

Stating that it can be determined that one person poses a higher risk than another one is bad advice, simply because we can't and it is misleading. It may lead to a point where people believe that they are able to access the involved risk when they can not.




Infection risk via normal skin. Your post:

"You called my objection being nonsense and denied any risks, saying that the HIV virus can't pass normal skin.
I pointed out to injuries and microscopic wounds that everybody has. It's also not impossible for the HIV virus to pass through normal skin. It's only harder due to the callus on the surface, but not impossible."

Oh yes, now I recall. Thanks for checking back.
The HIV virus targets the human T-helper cells, which do also exist in the normal skin but just in smaller numbers. I remember that I have seen a very good documention produced by the BBC in which they say that it is possible to get infected through the normal skin, even though it is not very likely due to the callus on the surface and the small number of T-helper cells in the upper layers of the skin.

When you first referred to it you forgot to mention that I said that it isn't very likely. It's not impossible but you completely rule it out. I just wonder why doctors and people in laboratories wear gloves, just because of my beforementioned microscopic injuries - which do not exist or are unimportant due to your interpretation (see previous discussion regarding this issue) - or because it makes sense to be as careful as you can when handling possible infected material. I say better safe than sorry.




Hide? Why? That’s simply mathematics, that risk factors can balance each other…depending on the personal evaluation of each risk.

LOL, so now it's just math.
Yes hide, if the answer is so easy why you refused to tell us what your personal risk assessment/decision matrix says to my question.
And didn't we find out that those factors did not balance out because the older gogo girl was in fact an older freelancer who also worked in a gogo. In this case age and workplace made her more risky than the young bargirl, which means your risk assessmenmt rules already failed at a very simple example due to the fact that you don't know shit about the girls. Therefore those rules are useless and can be misleading.




I did not say that. I think you misunderstood this structure of the report all the time. It is up to your risk assessment which factor you evaluate higher. If you think the age is more significant as a factor than the workplace/site than you evaluate it accordingly. If you think it is not a real risk factor set your evaluation to zero, and it disappears. Decision matrix!

You said that by saying that they balance out. If it is simple math as you said above they must be ranking equally, otherwise they can't balance out. It's simply impossible and the way sorting orders work, if the first factor (workplace) differs and has a higher priority than the second one (age), any different in the second one can not lead to put this factor combination above the first one.
Anyway, you never mentioned any priority and if there would be one, how could they balance out ?

Nevertheless you still avoid a clear answer. I asked YOU what YOUR risk assessment tells YOU in that case. So stop talking about others evaluation of risk factors when people ask for YOUR evaluation of those factors.




In my risk assessment I would always assume the highest risk option for a single risk factor (workplace is the factor in this case, age is a second factor, to be evaluated separately) - freelancing would cause a high risk assumption.

You see, your risk assessment failed. The less risky gogo girl turned out to be a more risky freelancer. Since she is also older than the bargirl her risk dramatically increased compare to the bargirl simply because you did not know shit about her.




In saying "They pose the least risk" you somehow confirm to have performed the same thing I was writing about: A Risk Assessment :) .

Try to turn my words around, don't you ?
I clearly stated that due to YOUR risk assessment rules girls with the mentioned attributes would pose the least risk. All those mentioned attributes were rated by YOU with the least risk, not me.




Come on man, seams to me that we both want the same thing, but we go different ways. We both use condoms, don't we?

Yes we do, but I don't tell other people that one girl is less risky than another one, which is misleading as I don't know shit about either one.




Oh, that reminds me, you did not answer MY questions :) :

"Finally: Back to the risk assessments.

I would be interested in clear statements about personal behaviors. Who has never taken any risk during a P4P session? That means: Never touched a pussy (because of possible cuts in a finger), never got a BBBJ, never had sex without a condom, never eaten a pussy, always successfully avoided to get into any contact with the body fluid of a woman, etc. etc. …"

Come on man, now you try to justify your bad advice with the fact that there is no way to avoid all and any risks involved with sex with an unknown partner, especially if she is a P4P.

But I can clearly state that I never had unprotected sex with a P4P, do not eat pussy of a P4P, do not stick my fingers in a pussy of a P4P and avoid french kissing with P4P. Maybe that's the reason why I prefer to have GFs, as we can perform all sex practices anyone can think of.

Sadly there is no way of completely avoiding to get in contact with female body fluids. The root of your penis and/or your pubic area will always come in contact with more or less fluid from her vagina as she gets horny. that's why I don't shave this area when going after P4P and put some lubricant on it as an additional layer and to avoid friction when the girl is riding me.

In short, I take as much precaution as possible and try to reduce the risk involved to a minimum no matter what my assumptions are about the girl and her health status.

[Opebo]

...Maybe that's the reason why I prefer to have GFs, as we can perform all sex practices anyone can think of.

I'm sorry, but the disparity between your comical overreaction to the risk with prostitutes and your abject and naive trust of 'girlfriends' must be noted! Man, they're all prostitutes in one way or another, and even if you don't believe that, they just people and therefore certainly very apt to stray given any opportunity or incentive.

If I really believed sex were as risky as you apparently do, the last thing I would do would be to trust some 'girlfriend'.

[The Traveler]

There are pages and pages of argument here about risk etc, but the bottom line is both Giotto and Traveller are right.

Giotto is right in the sense that certain girls are a different risk than others, it is all a matter of statistics and we to an extent live our lives to them, but I really cannot see why anyone would risk there lives by stats. We could all arugue to we are blue in the face about what those risks are and what percentage risk a fresh faced gogo girl has compared to a freelancer so I really cannot see the point to it. Trav and others are right in this sense that we should all be covering up and not fooling ourselves that we will be ok simply because we have choosen someone from a lower risk group. Sure the chances might be lower, but the chance is still there.

But the bottom line is there is a risk, there is a risk from the freelancers, the bargirls, the gogo girls, the officer girls and even our own ladies, including wives at home. For mine even if the risk of getting something off the 18yo gogo girl who has been working for a week is only 1% then that is 1% too much. The only risk I would take is with a women I loved and trusted who I was in a long term manogomous relationship with. At the moment I don't have that, if I did I wouldn't be punting.
Jc373,

absolutely correct and nicely summed up.

[The Traveler]

I'm sorry, but the disparity between your comical overreaction to the risk with prostitutes and your abject and naive trust of 'girlfriends' must be noted! Man, they're all prostitutes in one way or another, and even if you don't believe that, they just people and therefore certainly very apt to stray given any opportunity or incentive.

If I really believed sex were as risky as you apparently do, the last thing I would do would be to trust some 'girlfriend'.
Opebo,

you obviously are a lonely guy who probably never had a girlfriend.

Of course I put some trust in them as anybody does who is in a relationship, but I guess you don't know what a relationship is as nobody wants you. As already said, my GFs usually live with me and therefore have no occasion for any "additional" activities. It's also questionable why they should do it, there is no advantage for them besides maybe fucking someone else, but by thinking of you I doubt it is desirable.

I always have my girlfriends checked twice over a period of three months before going bareback to make sure that they do not carry the HIV virus or any other nasty stuff. Just did that with my current GF, made the second complete test for HIV, Hep. A+B, Syphillis, Clamydia, Papilloma, bacterias and fungus. Also a complete blood test incl. sugar, HDL, LDL and blood count to detect a current infection. This test cost about 8000 baht.

Also made a complete pep smear test which will set you back an additional 12.000 baht.

Therefore it's not just naive believe in my GF, but hard scientific facts that she is healthy.

I assume your mom, grandmas and/or sisters have been the GF of someone. Will or have they also been straying around on any given opportunity or incentive ? Do you also think of them as prostitutes ? And did you tell them ?

If not, what makes them different from my GFs or any other women ?
Did you ever hear of love, affection and desire ?

Maybe you don't know about such things because your are such an obnoxious, unpopular guy who is in the doghouse.

[Petemcc]

Hey, I remember seeing you and your two lovers fighting it out on the Jerry Springer show.

PS - Your mother-in-law had given birth? Really? Think about it.

My wife is the step daughter

[Brain666]

Traveller,
This is now really funny, better to say LOL.

You yourself went trough some brainwork (others would call it risk assessment and Giotto being more a 'math guy' probably Decision Matrix) and figured that 'GF' are less risky.

I agree and in my decision matrix/ risk assessment a 'GF' is as well less risky then an official p4p. But we all know that especially in Thailand the 'GF' P4P scenery is much more fluent then in other countries.
Girls fuck around (to our favour), some p4p fulltime or part time for cash, others occasionally for some other benefit and some just for fun. Girl’s pussy, also non P4P is somehow in average easier accessible for us then in other countries. Where else can you have with some nice skills the chance to go ahead with sales girls, air hostesses etc. then in Thailand.

According to statistics again we many times stated here that even 'GF's' have some remaining risk.

What makes the thing interesting is that you change your behaviour 'and do all the things you can think of' what you don't do with your 'more risky' P4P girls.

So finally we figure that you yourself are using your own adjusted risk assessment to also play around at least 'less protected' if you consider risk low.

Welcome to the real world I can say. I conclude that the only difference between The Traveller and Opepo is simply the different personal risk factors.

Greetings

Brain666

[Giotto]

To understand the fundamentals of safe sex risk management ( :) ) it seams to be necessary to explain the mathematical principles of a decision matrix.

Let us try to buy a washing machine:

To make a decision which of the 100 available products we take we first think about, on which factors we will base our decision. What do we think about, what can be important when we buy a washing machine?

Let’s assume, we are men, and have neither much knowledge about washing nor huge fantasy as women have sometimes. So we only find 4 decision factors:

Price
Functionality
Quality
Colour

The next step would now be to evaluate the scale to the factors, how important are they? That depends on our personal decision factor scaling assessment (:D). If we have enough money the price is not as important as if it would cost us a months salary. And for women the color might be more important than for us. I give it a try (please don’t attack me for that, it’s only a washing machine):

- Price……...……….4
- Functionality……2
- Quality……..…….6
- Colour…………....1

That means basically, that for me the quality is most important. I don’t give a shit what colour it is.

Now the evaluation of the single product, to be done with a point rating between 0 – 10, for each single decision factor.

Now we go to a washing machine shop and look at all products. The price ranges are in between Euro 200,00 and Euro 1,000.00 (to be honest, I have no idea what a washing machine costs). That means eg., that the Euro 200.00 machine gets 10 points, and the Euro 1,000.00 machine gets 1 point (we don’t want to waste money), above that all machines are ruled out – they get 0 points (a washing machine for more than Euro 1,000.00 – that would be crazy. I have my wife!).

Functionality is checked out and evaluated in a point rating between 0 – 10, based on the manuals and presentations we get in the shop. There is something like different washing programs - hell, I have no idea.

The quality – we develop ourselves to washing machine specialist during the visit in the shop(s), so we evaluate the quality – yes, in a point rating between 0 and 10 !!! Of course we are influenced in this evaluation by our personal preferences and experiences with brand names from the past.

Finally – the colour. White is nice but boring, 3 points. The silver one looks nice, 8 points. The black one – so so, 5 points.

Now we take a break and walk to the next coffee shop. We fill out our decision matrix form, multiplying the scale with our evaluation of each decision factor, and finally sum up all factors – we get a total number for each single machine.

The machine who got the highest number of points is bought thereafter.

The only remaining question for me is: Are there really black washing machines :) ?



Giotto

[Retired Army]

Are there really black washing machines :) ?
Giotto


Yes there are. It's a very popular color for appliances.

[The Traveler]

You yourself went trough some brainwork (others would call it risk assessment and Giotto being more a 'math guy' probably Decision Matrix) and figured that 'GF' are less risky.

Brain666,

of course we all do make risk assessments in the broader sense of this expression, you even do make a risk assessment when simply crossing the street, but this isn't the subject of the discussion.

The subject of the discussion is, if anybody is able to rate the risk of P4P girls.

I also have far more information about my GF than about any P4P, therefore whatever my risk assessment may be, it will be far more accurate for my GF than for any unknown P4P. You will argue that there is still some room for an error. Yes, that's true, this is real life and and there aren't many things that are for certain. But again, the faithfulness of GFs isn't the subject and even Giotto won't apply his risk assessment rules on his GF.

So your objection is use- and worthless because you expand the subject beyond rating risks of P4P.


P.S. Please let me add, that I find any comparison between Opebo and me very offensive for very obvious reasons.

[The Traveler]

To understand the fundamentals of safe sex risk management ( :) ) it seams to be necessary to explain the mathematical principles of a decision matrix.

Giotto,

we all know what a decision matrix is as we all make decisions on a daily basis.
All this talking about a decision matrix is nothing but a distraction from the real problem : that your risk assessment rules are nonsense as they only focus on a very small subset of attributes/issues involved in rating the risk of a potential sex partner.

When buying a washing machine, you do know ALL factors that are important and you also have means to check most of them beforehand. But with P4P you DON'T know all factors and can not check them as well.

As my below example showed, your risk assessment already failed at the most simple case.

You still refuse to give us a straight answer to my question and to explain why still believe your irisk assessment is able to make an accurate assessment of the risk even though it dramatically failed in the below example. I know very well that ignoring unpleasant topics is a tactic that you and others often use when being cornered, but most people can see it and not giving an answer is an admittance of failure.

[Petemcc]

And then of course that does not help the debate about whether HIV truly exists (there are lots of retroviruses after all, all harmless to us except that one), and whether it can actually produce AIDS, alone or together with something else (a more and more attractive proposition).

It is allright to stick to the official gospel, but if you have an open and curious mind, you start reading, and thinking by yourself, and then it does not seem to add up so well. Nothing seems so sure, and a lot of things seem weird.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for an excellent report, but I just want to clarify a few things.
Firstly, there are other retroviruses that harm humans- some like HTLV1, 2 and 3, which from memory are very similar to HIV are believed to be involved in Leukemia, and of course how could anyone in Europe forget Rabies, another retrovirus!

Nothing is absolute in science, but there is so much evidence that the HIV virus causes AIDS that one would be a foolish to ignore it. There are always experts who can be found to say something to the contrary, but, well, they have their own agenda.

Now, PCR does work, that is because scientists have isolated the HIV genome ( an RNA strand). All PCR does is make many copies of a specific sequence of DNA/RNA, so that there is a sufficient quantity to run a test. In the old days, 20 years ago, a much greater sample was needed, but the invention of PCR meant that smaller samples, and obviously smaller viral loads could be detected and amplified.
However, there is still a time lag when there will not be enough HIV RNA for the 'probes' to detect. This is probably at least 5 days, maybe longer. PCR can yield false positives also, which is why so-called quick tests should not be relied upon. A positive from the initial PCR should be followed up with a conventional antibody test later on, as per the report. So testing a girl before you shag her does not mean she is HIV free, but she may have a smaler viral load and less chance of infecting you. But why go to these extremes? Covering up is easier!

Finally, just to make life worse, it has to be borne in mind that RNA viruses like HIV tend to make many more mistakes when replicating than DNA viruses. That means more mutations. OK, some of the mutations may not be viable, but like the influenza virus, which has a number of mutations and expresses various antibody markers, some may survive and make detection and treatment harder.

Did I say finally, sorry, this is finally. Take the relevant precautions. HIV is very difficult to get, otherwise the whole world would have it by now! BUT, if you are in a high risk group- like an IV drug user, homosexual or monger, then sensible precautions should be taken. I didn't mean to place mongers in that cohort, but girls we have sex with have usually had multiple sexual experiences and maybe with drug users, or bareback merchants!


Remember also, HIV-AIDS will probably eventually kill you, but so will syphilis, and if you give your girlfriend/wife a dose of something else, she probably will too!

[Petemcc]

To understand the fundamentals of safe sex risk management ( :) ) it seams to be necessary to explain the mathematical principles of a decision matrix.

Let us try to buy a washing machine:

To make a decision which of the 100 available products we take we first think about, on which factors we will base our decision. What do we think about, what can be important when we buy a washing machine?

Let’s assume, we are men, and have neither much knowledge about washing nor huge fantasy as women have sometimes. So we only find 4 decision factors:

Price
Functionality
Quality
Colour

The next step would now be to evaluate the scale to the factors, how important are they? That depends on our personal decision factor scaling assessment (:D). If we have enough money the price is not as important as if it would cost us a months salary. And for women the color might be more important than for us. I give it a try (please don’t attack me for that, it’s only a washing machine):

- Price……...……….4
- Functionality……2
- Quality……..…….6
- Colour…………....1

That means basically, that for me the quality is most important. I don’t give a shit what colour it is.

Now the evaluation of the single product, to be done with a point rating between 0 – 10, for each single decision factor.

Now we go to a washing machine shop and look at all products. The price ranges are in between Euro 200,00 and Euro 1,000.00 (to be honest, I have no idea what a washing machine costs). That means eg., that the Euro 200.00 machine gets 10 points, and the Euro 1,000.00 machine gets 1 point (we don’t want to waste money), above that all machines are ruled out – they get 0 points (a washing machine for more than Euro 1,000.00 – that would be crazy. I have my wife!).

Functionality is checked out and evaluated in a point rating between 0 – 10, based on the manuals and presentations we get in the shop. There is something like different washing programs - hell, I have no idea.

The quality – we develop ourselves to washing machine specialist during the visit in the shop(s), so we evaluate the quality – yes, in a point rating between 0 and 10 !!! Of course we are influenced in this evaluation by our personal preferences and experiences with brand names from the past.

Finally – the colour. White is nice but boring, 3 points. The silver one looks nice, 8 points. The black one – so so, 5 points.

Now we take a break and walk to the next coffee shop. We fill out our decision matrix form, multiplying the scale with our evaluation of each decision factor, and finally sum up all factors – we get a total number for each single machine.

The machine who got the highest number of points is bought thereafter.

The only remaining question for me is: Are there really black washing machines :) ?



Giotto

For the love of fuck, can we not end this bollocks here? There is no way to tell if a girl has a load of bad jizz in her womb, or a load of good jizz in her womb. It doesn't matter if she's a 19 year old Princess or a 50 year old ex bar girl from Secrets in Pattaya.
Does a decision matrix predict if a woman will be a good wife? With about 50% of western marriages ending in divorce, the best people involved in that decision matrix got it horribly wrong half the time, and that was weighing up a lot more evidence ( one would think) than age and the number of times she could have been fucked.
If she is a *****, sorry, I will go further, if she is not monogomous, there is no way that you can predict whose Jizz she has taken. It could be a smooth-talking charmer like Opebo, who may have more doses than a chemist's shop, or Asian Rain, or many others. Maybe some special young gogo girl has just fucked one man, one of these men, but there is an old saying: When you fuck someone, you are fucking everyone they have ever fucked! Gogo girl- virgin, meets charmer who has fucked 1000 women. That's 1000 chances of getting infected. A thousand people she has had sex with!
Like guys have stated, if she's yours, monogomous, and an ex sex-worker and has been checked out, you are sweet. If not, well, I hope you have special powers, because a decision matrix is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard- accept that, and accept you are wrong.

[Petemcc]

This is a PM I have just found to me from Giotto, quoting me and then his ramblings:

Careful

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"All the recent reports are correct, and it has been known for a number of years that having another STI increases the chances of getting a dose of HIV. However, in that paper, the author fotgot to mention that it isn't only the 'open sores' STIs that cause a problem. Any STI- even the 'minor ones' like Chlamydia, will cause irritation in the lining of the urethra- this is where the virus gets in. Yeah, the sores can be an entry point, but that warm, moist, damaged tube is the go!
I'm not discounting anything that has been said- but just for the invincible men out there who think that not having sores gives them a better than fighting chance of not contracting HIV, bear in mind that if your urethra ( [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) tube) is infected or inflamed- even from too much sex with a clean girl, then the chances of infection are increased."

Petemcc,

careful with what you write here. "Warm, moist" is really nothing what matters...

I am heading some AIDS research projects. It is really about sores. And the existence of other STD's is definitely increasing the infection probability, because those STD's are creating those sores, they open the skin, a kind of transmitter function. We today know about some bacteria/fungus which cause sores and allows the virus to enter the body. It is (most likeky) the coexistence of the virus with other infectious bacteria/fungus which finally makes the difference of being infected or not.

An inflamed urethra itself is up to now not statistically significant identified as bearing any bigger risk than a not inflamed one.

I will not enter into this discussion.



I am not flaming here but this man is setting himself up as an expert. My degree is in biochemistry, with a minor in microbiology. I am currently doing a nursing degree. I have been involved with all matters medical for over 20 years now and take great interest in such things.

Anyone who has studied any anatomy will know that mucus membranes have a very, very close association with the circulatory system. The presence of sores is not necessary for a breach of the mucus membrane.

How he can possibly claim that an inflamed urethra is not statistically identified as bearing any greater risk is beyond me. I suppose there are research papers somewhere where scientists exposed healthy volunteers, some with inflamed urethras and some not, to the HIV virus suspended in body fluids! I think not.

Here is a quote from the CDC website (http://www.cdc.gov/std/hiv/STDFact-STD&HIV.htm#WhatIs)

Increased susceptibility. STDs probably increase susceptibility to HIV infection by two mechanisms. Genital ulcers (e.g., syphilis, herpes, or chancroid) result in breaks in the genital tract lining or skin. These breaks create a portal of entry for HIV. Non-ulcerative STDs (e.g., chlamydia, gonorrhea, and trichomoniasis) increase the concentration of cells in genital secretions that can serve as targets for HIV (e.g., CD4+ cells).

I think the CDC in the USA knows a lot more about it than you pal!

Giotto, leave the science to those who know. Just because you read a few websites doesn't mean you are suddenly an expert. There is a lot of shit on the web, because anyone can post anything they want- get the point!

[Rubber Nursey]

Ok, using your ridiculous 'risk assessment'...

You meet two women:

Woman A is in her thirties, single for most of her adult life and been working as a hooker for the past ten years. On top of her sex work, she also goes out drinking and dancing every weekend and generally takes home a sexy stranger at the end of each drinking binge.

Woman B is also in her thirties, been married for 15 years and has only ever had sex with one man, her husband. She's a stay-at-home Mum to three kids, bakes muffins and volunteers for the local senior citizen's centre while the kids are at school.

Who is the biggest risk???
I guess it's pretty obvious which one would be considered 'safe' and I guess some of you would not think twice about bedding the 'good woman' without a condom.

But what if you had access to more information? (Information that you would NOT have access to when making a 'real life' risk assessment).

Woman A has never used IV drugs, consistently uses condoms with EVERY man/client that she sleeps with and has regular STI tests. On the very rare occasion that she picks up a bug, she abstains from sex until treatment is finished because she doesn't want to put anyone else's health at risk.

Woman B has never used a condom in her life, nor has she ever had an STI test, because she believes her husband is faithful to her. AND HER HUSBAND IS ONE OF THE MEN IN THIS VERY FORUM, WHO TRAVELS TO COUNTRIES WHERE HIV/STIs ARE RAMPANT AND FUCKS HOOKERS BAREBACK.

NOW which woman is safer????????


When it comes to 'risk assessment', there's only one question that you should be asking yourself.

"Has this woman (P4P or otherwise) ever had unprotected sex with a guy who assesses risk by any means similar to the Giotto method"?

If there's even the remotest possibility that the answer could be yes ....use a condom!!!

[Retired Army]

This is a PM I have just found to me from Giotto, quoting me and then his ramblings:



This isn't right! Private messages should be--private--unless by agreement with the sender they be made public.

[Petemcc]

This isn't right! Private messages should be--private--unless by agreement with the sender they be made public.

Tough! The message should have been in the public arena. It was a reply to a positng I made in the public arena, and it concerned everyone in the public arena.
Trying to close off or scupper a discussion in secret is not on, but then again I'm British and Australian, we believe in openness and the truth!

[Retired Army]

Tough! The message should have been in the public arena.

But it wasn't in the public arena. That's why it's called Private Message.

[Petemcc]

But it wasn't in the public arena. That's why it's called Private Message.
You must have misunderstood me. The message he quoted in the PM was in the public arena, but he felt fit to reply to it privately, basically telling me what I had written was rubbish and that it was no longer up for discussion.

There was no need for a PM, especially a PM telling me that I am wrong. Anyway, I'm not arsed, at least people can visit the CDC website and make up their own mind based on research by a lot of clever people over a number of years on a number of people, as opposed to the opinion of someone else.

[Piper1]

Dear Pete,

See fight club.

[Petemcc]

Pete - you say you were a cop (and that you beat people to near-death). Then you were a prison guard (and you say you fucked at least one of your prisoners). Now you're studying to be a nurse. I hope that for my sins, you won't be giving me a sponge-bath one day.

Screwing your mother-in-law ... (Jerry! ... Jerry! ...)

As for PM's - what does the "P" stand for?

Ex-prisoner, step-mother in law!
It's the cathetar I am looking forward to inserting!
I don't give a flying fuck if P stands for Private. I know this isn't the place to say this, but Gioto is being a complete fuckwit with this whole safe sex thing.
I didn't ask to receive a PM slagging me off. Just what the fuck do you think that he thought I would do? I care about people, but I don't give a fuck about twats, and if someone challenges me, I'll stand up and accept that challenge. I would have thought that my personality was obvious by now.
If someone wants to make a **** of themselves by pretending to be all knowing when in fact their knowledge is based upon some idiotic concept which for the life of me escapes me, then fair enough, but don't expect me to keep it secret.
I have had many PMs from members, and PMs are effectively for private information that is of no business to anyone else.
Please, for fuck's sake, read what the thread is all about, read what I said and then read what he said. This isn't private stuff, and it does not deserve any degree of privacy. Had he PMd me and said something like let's agree to disagree, then that's fair enough.
Anyway, as I said, I'm not arsed. I've been slagged off more times than I can care to imagine on this forum because I speak the truth, a concept which is unknown to many individuals. I don't care who I upset, in real life or here.
I LIKE to think that on matters of biology I can offer some informed insight. I may not be a high-powered business man who can travel the world and monger at will, and therefore cannot contribute with fantastic stories of wonderful sex, however, as I said before, I live my mongering life vicariously through this board and I contribute what I can for the benefit of all. As you well know, if you don't like what I have to say, ignore me, I'm not arsed.
Best wishes.
Pete

[Terry Terrier]

Dear Pete,

See fight club.

So we can't discuss safe sex in Thailand on the forum with Giotto?

Retired Army,

Private Messaging is for exchanging private info, chit-chat and suchlike. Trying to take an important public discussion on safe sex practices off the forum and into PM in order to save face is an abuse of PM, IMO.


Giotto made a considered, well-laid-out, well-intentioned post on his take on safe sex in Thailand. Others have pointed out glaring errors in his post. I'm very happy to be corrected when I'm wrong (it means that I've learnt something). Why aren't certain others? Why all this defence of bad info?

[Piper1]

Pete - I took it to the fight club. Answer there. I nearly felt sorry for you after your post below, until you threatened me with inserting a cathetar.

If you really want to be nurse, learn how to spell catheter.

[Piper1]

Terry - I don't rely on the net for info on safe-sex. I haven't read all of Giotto's or The Traveller's or others' arguments. No need to. I use the safest rule - always use a condom. Not fool-proof, but It's a simple and pretty effective practice.

As for Pete - I didn't think he would take it so hard (he's a tough guy and he's heard worse). Now I feel bad. Take it easy Pete.

[Petemcc]

Terry - I don't rely on the net for info on safe-sex. I haven't read all of Giotto's or The Traveller's or others' arguments. No need to. I use the safest rule - always use a condom. Not fool-proof, but It's a simple and pretty effective practice.

As for Pete - I didn't think he would take it so hard (he's a tough guy and he's heard worse). Now I feel bad. Take it easy Pete.

I didn't take it hard and I have replied on the Fight Club thread. As you will see, a nigfht shift, exercise, beer and 20 years of simply abusing inocent people has taken its toll on my spelling.
Oh, and I am not a tough guy. I have met many tougher than I, maybe not with as much heart, but tougher. Someone once said someting like 'all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing'. I don't know who, and again, at this time of my day I couldn't be arsed looking it up. If standing up for others and administering summary justice makes someone tough, then fair enough, I accept that title. However, I was only one of millions of ordinary people who affronted by the shit in society decided to try to make a difference. In my new career, despite my spelling deficiencies, I hope I can continue to make a difference, and by posting relevant information here, I also hope I can help people out.
Almost time for bed I think!

No, one more for the road.

[Retired Army]

You must have misunderstood me. The message he quoted in the PM was in the public arena, but he felt fit to reply to it privately, basically telling me what I had written was rubbish and that it was no longer up for discussion.

There was no need for a PM, especially a PM telling me that I am wrong. Anyway, I'm not arsed, at least people can visit the CDC website and make up their own mind based on research by a lot of clever people over a number of years on a number of people, as opposed to the opinion of someone else.

I am not sure of the specifics of the message, but I think that anything said privately between two individuals should stay just that. Just my opinion.

[Petemcc]

I am not sure of the specifics of the message, but I think that anything said privately between two individuals should stay just that. Just my opinion.

You're still missing the point. It's not private if I don't welcome it!

[La Chef]

If people would care more about oters and practise safe sex, we wouldn't have to discuss this at this forum.

Some people will spoil the lives of many working girls and many mongers, but I guess that's life, they don't care and they will not stop as they only do think of them selfs...it's a shame.

I haven't made many contribution on this forum, but I guess that's just me beeing lazy.

Pete: I hear you mate. Take care.

[Retired Army]

You're still missing the point. It's not private if I don't welcome it!

I am a little slow and easily confused sometimes.

[Petemcc]

I am a little slow and easily confused sometimes.

I have a cure for that. A nice Thai girl who wants to marry you. From what I have read, that is a very big wake up call!!!!

[Petemcc]

If people would care more about oters and practise safe sex, we wouldn't have to discuss this at this forum.

Some people will spoil the lives of many working girls and many mongers, but I guess that's life, they don't care and they will not stop as they only do think of them selfs...it's a shame.

I haven't made many contribution on this forum, but I guess that's just me beeing lazy.

Pete: I hear you mate. Take care.

There speaks the voice of reason. Welcome. Je pense qu vous etes Francais, n'est pas?

[La Chef]

There speaks the voice of reason. Welcome. Je pense qu vous etes Francais, n'est pas?sorry, [Text deleted by Admin]
And I am right now in Indonesia.

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove text not in English. While I encourage contributions from all volunteers, the Forum is an English-only website. Please do not post reports in any language other than English. Thanks!

[La Chef]

sorry, [Text deleted by Admin]
And I am right now in Indonesia.

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove text not in English. While I encourage contributions from all volunteers, the Forum is an English-only website. Please do not post reports in any language other than English. Thanks!Well what I said was that I don't really speak French, but it seems like the admin didn't like that I wrote it in French?

[BuleDaddy]

The girls in Thailand will not stop working when that Period comes. Large dicked farhangs will eat viagra on top of many beers and drill the hell out of these girls and cause them to bleed. Blood is the medium that spreads it and vaginal juices too. Sure, you are bagged but how about that manicure you got at the barber shop? The freshly cut cuticles, or you rub your eye after pulling that bag off your pinga. When they get the initial infection that comes before the 3 month detection time comes it is very contagious. I flat out asked a couple of girls if they were HIV+ after I did the "10,000thb boom boom, no condom, OK?" verbal test and got a yes. When I looked them in the eye and asked if they had it they stared down at the floor. OK, mix that with Avian Flu and we are in a heap of potential trouble. Girls that got it are more than happy to do you unbagged as they have nothing to lose and a grudge to bear. The Avian Flu can swap out dna with other viruses. There is little or no data on the possiblities, but it has been stated separately that both viruses can mutate, and the Avian flu CAN aquire characteristics from other Viruses. Imagine, a CSW girl goes home to the province where the chickens are all over the place. I can hear them clucking when I call the girls on the phone when they go back to Isan or up country. Imagine the highly contagious element mixing with the incurable time bomb. It is just a matter of time. Around Christmas in Pattaya the girls sit at the bars with their legs up and told me it was because of the HIV mosquitos. What is to stop a mosquito from spreading it just like malaria? Thailand keeps stats but many other Asian countries supress or don't have stats. Do a search and note how little stats are available, especially on the new sub-category e strain. Thailand has 3 major strains. The first strain was brought to LOS in the 80's from the US by Gays. The 2nd was another African strain brought to the Golden Triangle by Indian Gem merchants from Bombay and this spread from IV drug use and the prostitutes in Northern Myamar and Chiang Mai. It got to Bombay via African Sailors doing Indian ho's. The newest one is the Subcat-e, introduced by West Africans to Thailand in the late 90's. . I see many Africans near Nana. I saw some very frigtening data 2 years back on Sub Cat e, but I can no longer find it. I wish somebody from the medical community would post stuff on this site. The lack of data is almost suspicious, like they are trying to hide it. Maybe the religious right wants to kill the mongers off. The fact that Thai girls don't carry bags, and Indonesian girls can be arrrested for being a prostitute for possessing them shows how little has been done. The cute 22 year old mother in Jakarta told me the doctor comes and gives them "antee-beeotik" so bags are not necessary. This is a far cry from the Rio Girls that are always well stocked and experts at deploying a new bag for each act. In reality, WWI ended because of Influenza, not a truce. 500,000 died in the US from Avian Influenza between 1918 and 1919. With modern jet travel and airport transfer hubs imagine how fast it would spread. This site needs up to date stat.

[Meaty]

I'm catching up on the threads, been away for a while, so much work. Anyway, WTF is the problem in this thread ? There is no such thing as safe sex, in Thailand or anywhere, ALL sex involves risks, but so what. As individuals we decide for ourselves where we sit on the risk situation. I consider Giotto as a freind, but i would not base my decisions on his risk assessment method, nor would i decide to base them all on posts by Petemcc, this is a forum for monging and thanks to OTH, RA, Traveller and others there are also some good discussions and points of factual info on Thailand, the culture and some experienced peoples points of view on them. This thread is stupid, it does nothing for anyone. If you want to learn the facts about STI's, HIV Aids and all that crap then do a google and get the info from some government or medical site from qualified people who at least have the right to claim their opinions should be valued.
Anyone coming to Thailand (or going anywhere for that matter) that needs to use a sex forum to decide wether its safe to go BB or not is nuts IMO.
Sex is dangerous, if you are serious about wanting to try to understand how dangerous, WSG is not the place to do it.
Rant over.

[Petemcc]

I'm catching up on the threads, been away for a while, so much work. Anyway, WTF is the problem in this thread ? There is no such thing as safe sex, in Thailand or anywhere, ALL sex involves risks, but so what. As individuals we decide for ourselves where we sit on the risk situation. I consider Giotto as a freind, but i would not base my decisions on his risk assessment method, nor would i decide to base them all on posts by Petemcc, this is a forum for monging and thanks to OTH, RA, Traveller and others there are also some good discussions and points of factual info on Thailand, the culture and some experienced peoples points of view on them. This thread is stupid, it does nothing for anyone. If you want to learn the facts about STI's, HIV Aids and all that crap then do a google and get the info from some government or medical site from qualified people who at least have the right to claim their opinions should be valued.
Anyone coming to Thailand (or going anywhere for that matter) that needs to use a sex forum to decide wether its safe to go BB or not is nuts IMO.
Sex is dangerous, if you are serious about wanting to try to understand how dangerous, WSG is not the place to do it.
Rant over.

Maybe I'm losing the plot but I could have sworn that the title of this thread is Safe Sex In Thailand. OK, that's about sex in Thailand, not culture, that is in other threads, and the culture one on Giotto's forum was mine by the way.
There is such a thing as safe sex- sex between two monogomous partners, safe that is as far as disease is concerned, not injury.

The whole point about this thread is that people still have misconceptions about what is and is not safe, or should I say safer, because I fully agree with you, sex with a person whose complete medical and sexual history you don't know has risks attached. As you also pointed out we are mongers and at the day we will be fucking strange women, and that carries risks even in a full body condom.
If you look back, I think you will find that my contribution to this Safe Sex thread started when some stupid things were said. This entire website, the Thailand forum and this thread are about finding women for sex, and educating others. Have a look, all over the site there are still stupid questions like can I catch HIV from kissing someone.
In an ideal world Meaty, everyone would do their own research and draw their own conclusions. However, at least once I have replied to a member who said that he did not understand a research paper, and it was quite an important one. Many people only know their dick from their elbow because generally their elbow doesn't fit in the places a dick does, and sometimes things, especially involving science/biology have to be broken down to simple forms. Everyday new things are being discovered. I myself for example had forgotten about chlorhexidine as an excellent 90% plus mouthwash to use after getting a mouthfull of Thai girl love juice.
Yeah, sex, mongering sex is risky, and all we can do is make it as safe as possible, and education is the only way.
Personally I don't give a flying fuck if you agree with my submissions, which basically are that a condom is the most effective way of NOT getting a dose of something, hopefully some people will have payed heed to what I said and consider every new girl a risk, be she an 18 year old so-called virgin, or a Catholic nun who has fucked off the church and taken up life as a barmaid in Thailand.
I'm bored typing now, and you're probably bored reading this, I'm off.

[Meaty]

..Maybe I'm losing the plot but I could have sworn that the title of this thread is Safe Sex In Thailand...
You are, my post was not only directed at you, and certainly not a flame of you, it was simply in relation to this Threads Topic, "Safe Sex in Thailand", IMO it is a pointless thread, containing nothing but heresay and peoples opinions edcuated/self-educated/unedcuated, on 'Safe Sex'. Nothing in this thread can be taken seriously, and anyone who bases there sexual practices on the posts in it needs help !
I also don't think anyone would disagree that wearing a condom, reduces the 'chance' of catching 'something'. But if a monger needs to know that from a sex board, again, something is wrong.
Chill out Pete, you appear to be taking things to heart, which weren't mean't in that way.

[Petemcc]

You are, my post was not only directed at you, and certainly not a flame of you, it was simply in relation to this Threads Topic, "Safe Sex in Thailand", IMO it is a pointless thread, containing nothing but heresay and peoples opinions edcuated/self-educated/unedcuated, on 'Safe Sex'. Nothing in this thread can be taken seriously, and anyone who bases there sexual practices on the posts in it needs help !
I also don't think anyone would disagree that wearing a condom, reduces the 'chance' of catching 'something'. But if a monger needs to know that from a sex board, again, something is wrong.
Chill out Pete, you appear to be taking things to heart, which weren't mean't in that way.

It's OK, I'm on my tenth beer now. 4-5 is argumentitive, anything after that is mellowing. I get your point!
Cheers!
Pete

[Giotto]

I decided to erase the risk assessment report.

2 Reasons:

1.) Possible Misunderstanding

When reading some responds to the report I realize that it can obviously be misunderstood as an advice, under which circumstances bareback intercourse could be acceptable. The Traveller has described this option correctly in a report below.

I first did not want to believe that, but obviously not many people have the time to read such a report slowly and in details – and then the whole message of the report get lost, worse – the message is reversed. And that is really the last thing I want to achieve with this report.

2.) For What?

The report does not add any value to this forum. It is an intellectual orgasm for myself, and nothing more than that. I had fun to find out how my personal ways of thinking work, when I make a decision to go for oral sex with a P4P girl. But it is nothing more than that, only of value for myself.

----

I apologize to the forum for posting the risk assessment report.

Please, Guys, use a condom, under all circumstances. No exceptions!



Giotto

[Meaty]

I decided to erase the risk assessment report....
And how many lurkers jaws have just dropped as they wonder how they're supposed to know the risk levels they're exposing themselves to now ?!?! :D :D I liked your report G, nothing wrong with it, just your take on your decision process, just like seomone saying #83 at Teens is the best Anal ever, but then i go and she doesn't offer it, that doesn't make the original post wrong or require it to be removed, it just requires the readers to apply common sense to posts.

[Brain666]

I think I always understood the thing right.
No more or less.

And I believe that about 90 % of all mongers do nothing else then doing some kind of judgment how far to go with oral sex activities when deciding for P4P.

And the judgment was always for the decision of the level of oral sex and not for bareback sex as willingly falsely commented by some moralist icons.

It’s an illusion that the many mongers in LOS would behave like the father of all safe sex, moral icon The Traveler. In fact there is no time for 99,9999 % of all mongers to run each girl of our choice through a 15.000 baht 100% medical STD examination first. The reality is that except the few hand countable The Traveler’s alike the rest of us will continue with their risk assessments to allow ourselves a more or less bit of oral pleasure.

As I don't need any instructions for that, I can live as well with and without Giotto's Risk assessment report. But I enjoyed reading it and secretly comparing it with my own brainwork I am going through when thinking on the level of oral activity I do with a girl.

Regards

[Petemcc]

I think I always understood the thing right.
No more or less.

And I believe that about 90 % of all mongers do nothing else then doing some kind of judgement how far to go with oral sex activities when deciding for P4P.

And the judgement was always for the decision of the level of oral sex and not for bareback sex as willingly falsely commented by some moralist ikons.

Its an illusion that the many mongers in LOS would bahave like the father of all safe sex, moral ikone The Traveler. In fact there is no time for 99,9999 % of all mongers to run each girl of our choice through a 15.000 baht 100% medical STD examination first. The reality is that except the few hand countable The Travelr's alike the rest of us will continue with their risk asessments to allow ourselves a more or less bit of oral pleasure.

As I don't need any instructions for that, I can live as well with and without Giotto's Risk asessment report. But I enjoyed reading it and secretly comparing it with my own brainwork I am going through when thinking on the level of oral activity I do with a girl.

regards

Brain666
Two things:
Firstly, I apologise for in advance. By ikon do you mean icon? I appreciate that English isn't your first language and nobody gets any stick for their English here, but I am just checking if that is what you meant. You see, clever bastards are coming up with words all the time that I have never heard of! I am just making sure that you meant icon as in an admired person who is held up as being the symbol of a particular practice. If that is what you meant, I don't think anyone here claimed to be an icon, they just claimed to have specialist knowledge or an informed point of view. As I said, it is no criticism, it's just that these replies can get pretty heated over minor misinterpretations of what is being said.


Secondly, most of this thread was not directed towards oral sex. I know in places it has been mentioned that certain areas only allow oral sex with a dental dam. That is because of legislation and OH+S, and governments always go overboard with policies and procedures and err on the side of caution.
Oral sex is a relatively low risk activity, apart from if she has open sores/blisters, then stay away! However anything is possible. generally, as long as you are not swallowing great amounts of love juice, your own natural flora will fuck-off most invaders. And, because of the mucus on the mucus membranes, a quick rinse with a good mouthwash like chlorhexidine will destroy any bacteria that may be trying to penetrate the mucus of the mucus membrane. I'm not telling you anything new but your mouth and throat are full of 'friendly' bacteria, or other commensal bacteria that can't do much until you are compromised in some other way with an illness.
I am Mr careful, and I could not begin to consider not going down on some sweet WG's pussy- as long as she wasn't bleeding, or smelly, or had sores.
However, and this is the point- IF every monger wore a condom, then, assuming the WG didn't fuck anyone else, oral would be a pleasure that could be partaken off freely and without worry.
In effect, we can fuck a girl who is infected with a condom and be safe, but licking one out who has a dose or two, or three can be a risk, but only a risk if someone has BBS them. That is why it is selfish, because barebackers may say that others will wear condoms, but nobody is going to use a dental dam on a foreign WG.
So mate, continue with the oral fun, and generally, with a woman, if she has an infection down there, you will be able to smell something wrong-if it is established.
Enjoy the posts and keep contributing. Our combined knowledge is what makes this forum work. Some information may be shit, but knowledge is power, and the more we know, the more we can decide what we want to accept/reject and/or follow.
Regards
Pete

[La Chef]

You should tell this to the indonesian forum Pete.

[Brain666]

Two things:
Firstly, I apologise for in advance. By ikon do you mean icon?

Yes I meant Icon and I corrected it with some other type errors.

Regarding oral sex I just wanted to get some more real world practice in the discussion. Of course this is the safe sex thread and naturally the most safe would be to withstand from all p4p. But then we wouldn't have signed up for this board either.
My moral icon is mainly The Traveler, promoting the completely risk less way of doing. Of course he is right with that if absolutely risk less is what it should be. But again it isn't the case in 99,9999 % of the real P4P situations every day in LOS. So we will continue our brainwork before thinking on going for tongue play or going 'down under' how much we can justify.

regards

Brain666

[The Traveler]

...
It’s an illusion that the many mongers in LOS would behave like the father of all safe sex, moral icon The Traveler. In fact there is no time for 99,9999 % of all mongers to run each girl of our choice through a 15.000 baht 100% medical STD examination first. The reality is that except the few hand countable The Traveler’s alike the rest of us will continue with their risk assessments to allow ourselves a more or less bit of oral pleasure.
...

Brain,

thank you for seeing me as an icon :)

Actually I was just expressing my point of view of the whole thing - and I am entitled to it as much as anybody else here (like you e.g.) - which simply was that there is no way to access the risks involved and that nobody should be less careless just because he believes to know anything about his P4P girl.

As Meaty already said, everybody has to use his common sense. No need for Giotto to delete his report. But I still think that he was sending out the wrong message by telling us that different "security levels" apply depending on a few attributes of the girls. I gave a very simple example how fast Giotto's risk assessment can fail.

Nevertheless, claiming that 99,9999% of the real P4P situations every day in LOS do differ from "safe sex" situations is quite ambitious. How do you know what other people do in their bedrooms ? I don't and can only refer to what many girls have told me, but I have talked to many over the time.

You would wonder how many guys only want a blowjob plus a bit intercourse - missionary, doggy and/or girl riding him - for about 15-20 mins before being satisfied. Not all want DATY, stick their fingers in and so on. Also not all girls do allow it, some may be worried about long fingernails etc.

Therefore giving out numbers like that is a huge exageration. We simply don't know.


And finally, too many guys are fixated on pussy and tits, but women do have many more erogenous zones which are safe to "play" with and will get the girl into the right mood.

[The Traveler]

...
In effect, we can fuck a girl who is infected with a condom and be safe
...

Pete,

even though we obviously share many points of view regarding safe sex I have to object.

Many people don't know that Chlamydia, Syhillis and Clap e.g. are smear infections. Due to this way of transmission, a condom doesn't offer 100% protection against those infections as they are often transferred during foreplay.

Giotto's "advice" to stick your bare fingers deep into a girl's pussy is the best way to contract any of these deseases. Not to speak of the already mentioned risk to get in contact with blood and the risk, mentioned by Giotto himself, to transfer nasty stuff when rubbing your eyes with the very same fingers. DATY of course poses an ever higher risk of contracting deseases.

So, condoms do not provide 100% security but it's the best thing we have so far and reduces the risk dramatically, therefore always wear one !

[Giotto]

A new friend sent this quote to me today:

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

Bertrand Russell


Giotto

[Petemcc]

Pete,

even though we obviously share many points of view regarding safe sex I have to object.

Many people don't know that Chlamydia, Syhillis and Clap e.g. are smear infections. Due to this way of transmission, a condom doesn't offer 100% protection against those infections as they are often transferred during foreplay.

Giotto's "advice" to stick your bare fingers deep into a girl's pussy is the best way to contract any of these deseases. Not to speak of the already mentioned risk to get in contact with blood and the risk, mentioned by Giotto himself, to transfer nasty stuff when rubbing your eyes with the very same fingers. DATY of course poses an ever higher risk of contracting deseases.

So, condoms do not provide 100% security but it's the best thing we have so far and reduces the risk dramatically, therefore always wear one !

Point taken, but it offers 100% protection to your dick if your dick NEVER comes in contact with her juices, first hand, or second hand, so to speak! We have established that Chlamydia etc can infect other mucosa, and of course fingering a girl and rubbing her juices on an uncovered dick is a good way to get a dose of something nasty. Similarly DATY poses a risk, but with good oral hygeine (and not brushing your teeth for at least 4 hours before performing DATY) and care afterwards, the risk is minimised. Also a good saliva flow out of our mouths = less of a flow of her juices into our mouths.
I think that most people here realise, well, apart from the obvious few, that sex with someone you don't know, be that P4P or the girl next door, is risky. A condom is inpenetratable to all but sharp objects. Part of the testing phase is an attempt to pass an electric current through it, and if electrons can't get through, not much else should be able to squeeze through, at least of biological size.

FYI, I am currently researching the efficacy of mouthwashes like chlorhexidine ( which will destroy most bacteria, or at least reduce the count so much as they will have little chance of catching hold) in acting as a preventative measure post DATY, as opposed to letting the mormal mouth flora deal with it. Particularly, I am researching whether the repeated use of mouthwashes can significantly reduce the numbers of friendly mouth bacteria, so letting an opportunistic host from DATY get hold. I am leaning towards the use of such mouthwashes for 3 reasons:
1. People do get STI/STD of the mouth, so the commensal flora can't be that good.
2. They use the stuff in hospitals for patients.
3. Pathogen's will probably be relatively few and their numbers should be significantly reduced by the use of chlorhexidine post DATY.


An important point that I forgot to mention is the abuse of antibiotics. Some mongres may take unperscribed antibiotics thinking that they will stop them getting a dose. Apart from resistance issues, the problem is that most antibiotics do significantly reduce the population of the normal mouth flora, so letting potential pathogens ( from DATY etc) take hold. Interesting, prevention could cause infection!

Anyway mate, I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just saying that by exercising due dilligence, if possible, risks should be minimal.
I'll get back on the mouth research bit when it is done.
Pete

[Rubber Nursey]

Similarly DATY poses a risk, but with good oral hygeine (and not brushing your teeth for at least 4 hours before performing DATY) and care afterwards, the risk is minimised. Also a good saliva flow out of our mouths = less of a flow of her juices into our mouths.
Pete, can I just add...

I know some people here aren't too concerned about the risk to the sex worker during DATY, but for those who are, please be aware that although other STIs are certainly a risk, the greatest risk for the woman receiving DATY is herpes. From memory, one in every six people have HSV-1 (the coldsore virus). No longer separate infections, HSV-1 can cause HSV-2 (genital herpes) and vice versa, meaning that your coldsore could give a sex worker genital herpes. HSV is not only contagious during the outbreak, but for a period before and after - so you may be about to get a coldsore and not know it, unwittingly putting the girl at risk during DATY.

And don't forget, the same applies to a woman with HSV-1 giving a guy an uncovered blowjob.

[Petemcc]

I decided to erase the risk assessment report.

2 Reasons:

1.) Possible Misunderstanding

When reading some responds to the report I realize that it can obviously be misunderstood as an advice, under which circumstances bareback intercourse could be acceptable. The Traveller has described this option correctly in a report below.

I first did not want to believe that, but obviously not many people have the time to read such a report slowly and in details – and then the whole message of the report get lost, worse – the message is reversed. And that is really the last thing I want to achieve with this report.

2.) For What?

The report does not add any value to this forum. It is an intellectual orgasm for myself, and nothing more than that. I had fun to find out how my personal ways of thinking work, when I make a decision to go for oral sex with a P4P girl. But it is nothing more than that, only of value for myself.

----

I apologize to the forum for posting the risk assessment report.

Please, Guys, use a condom, under all circumstances. No exceptions!



Giotto

Giotto

If you really mean what you said here, I salute you as a big man, honestly, so if it is heart felt, thanks, well done-enough said.
Pete

[Petemcc]

Pete, can I just add...

I know some people here aren't too concerned about the risk to the sex worker during DATY, but for those who are, please be aware that although other STIs are certainly a risk, the greatest risk for the woman receiving DATY is herpes. From memory, one in every six people have HSV-1 (the coldsore virus). No longer separate infections, HSV-1 can cause HSV-2 (genital herpes) and vice versa, meaning that your coldsore could give a sex worker genital herpes. HSV is not only contagious during the outbreak, but for a period before and after - so you may be about to get a coldsore and not know it, unwittingly putting the girl at risk during DATY.

And don't forget, the same applies to a woman with HSV-1 giving a guy an uncovered blowjob.

Of course Rubber, you are 100% correct. One only has to watch the ad campaigns on national television in Australia to realise how common herpes is- the figures you have quoted.
You are also correct. Often ( but not always as you will notice) the focus has been on the man. I think in this thread somewhere I stated that we have the responsibility/ duty of care to the WGs, especially those who may not fully understand the consequences. I get the occasional cold sore, and during that time I don't kiss my wife anywhere near any mucosa. I would hope that other mongers take the same care with their significant others, and it follows on, unless you are a complete prick, that you should do the same with a WG.
Thanks for reminding us of that Rubber.

[Petemcc]

You should tell this to the indonesian forum Pete.
I never visit that forum, and have never been there. What do you suggest I look at and tell them?
I gather that most WGs there don't want condoms because they feel it degrades them, or something, so please enlighten me and I'll check the threads out and add my 5 cents (Australian)
Thanks
Pete

Sorry, couldn't PM you!

[La Chef]

I never visit that forum, and have never been there. What do you suggest I look at and tell them?

I gather that most WGs there don't want condoms because they feel it degrades them, or something, so please enlighten me and I'll check the threads out and add my 5 cents (Australian)

Thanks

Pete

Sorry, couldn't PM you!I was just speaking with sarcasm. I didn't want you to literaly telling them. Many people already tried without any success.

Anyway, take care maty.

[The Traveler]

Anyway mate, I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just saying that by exercising due dilligence, if possible, risks should be minimal.

Pete,

I didn't disagree with you either, just wanted to point out that people should know about the way of transmission of certain deseases for maximum protection.

[Meaty]

And finally, too many guys are fixated on pussy and tits, but women do have many more erogenous zones which are safe to "play" with and will get the girl into the right mood.
This is very true, often i will take out my wallet and fiddle with the 1,000 Baht notes, for some there is only a small effect, but i have seen others go wild :D

[Patrick]

Ha ha Absolutely fantastic!! I have noticed that on many an occasion!

[BuleDaddy]

A woman is like a spike (syringe). If you gonnah shares it you gotstah go first!

[Petemcc]

Hi guys

This is a link to the China thread where Santa posted the latest story about circumcision and HIV, and I have posted my comments. I am sure it will cause some debate, especially here.
http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=938

[Duniawala]

HIV risk halved by circumcision, finds US agency by Donald G McNeil Jr

Circumcision appears to reduce a man’s risk of contracting AIDS from heterosexual sex by half, US government health officials said on Wednesday, and the directors of the two largest funds for fighting the disease said they would consider paying for circumcisions in high-risk countries.

The announcement was made by officials of the National Institutes of Health as they halted two clinical trials, in Kenya and Uganda, on the ground that not offering circumcision to all the men taking part would be unethical. The success of the trials confirmed a study done last year in South Africa.

AIDS experts immediately hailed the finding. “This is very exciting news,” said Daniel Halperin, an HIV specialist at the Harvard Center for Population and Development, who has argued that circumcision slows the spread of AIDS in the parts of Africa where it is common.

In an interview from Zimbabwe, he added, “I have no doubt that as word of this gets around, millions of African men will want to get circumcised, and that will save many lives.”

Uncircumcised men are thought to be more susceptible because the underside of the foreskin is rich in Langerhans cells, sentinel cells of the immune system, which attach easily to the human immunodeficiency virus, which causes AIDS. The foreskin also often suffers small tears during intercourse.

But experts also cautioned that circumcision is no cure-all. It only lessens the chances that a man will catch the virus; it is expensive compared to condoms, abstinence or other methods; and the surgery has serious risks if performed by folk healers using dirty blades, as it often happens in rural Africa.

Circumcision is “not a magic bullet, but a potentially important intervention,” said Kevin M De Cock, director of HIV/AIDS for the World Health Organization. Sex education messages for young men need to make it clear that “this does not mean that you have an absolute protection,” said Anthony S Fauci, an AIDS researcher and director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

Circumcision should be used with other prevention methods, he said, and it does nothing to prevent spread by anal sex or drug injection, ways in which the virus commonly spreads in the US.

The two trials, conducted by researchers from universities in Illinois, Maryland, Canada, Uganda and Kenya, involved nearly 3,000 heterosexual men in Kisumu, Kenya, and nearly 5,000 in Rakai, Uganda. None were infected with HIV. They were divided into circumcised and uncircumcised groups, given safe sex advice (although many presumably did not take it), and retested regularly.

The trials were stopped this week by the NIH Data Safety and Monitoring Board after data showed that the Kenyan men had a 53% reduction in new HIV infection. Twenty-two of the 1,393 circumcised men in that study caught the disease, compared with 47 of the 1,391 uncircumcised men. In Uganda, the reduction was 48%. NYT NEWS SERVICE

[M P Lurker]

HIV risk halved by circumcision, finds US agency by Donald G McNeil Jr
<cut>

Hi Duniawala,

I feel this announcement has just a tiny effect on me.
1. Already circumcised.
2. Don't take statistically high risks with my dick anyway.
3. Licking out a girl's pussy will have the same level of danger as before.
4. I can feel some tiny level of comfort when getting a BBBJ only, because the unknown but small level of risk might be even smaller.

[Opebo]

Fellows, I have paid the price that one occasionally pays for enjoying our hobby the natural way. Yes, I have the Clap. Or rather I may have either clamydia or the clap, or both. The discharge is white, not yellow, so I think it could be just clamydia. In any case I thought it might be useful to bring up this common and easily aquired ailment on our 'Safe Sex in Thailand' thread.

I have taken just this morning the 1 gram dose of Zithromax I always take for these maladies. Unfortunately, I ate a meal no more than 30 minutes later, which is contraindicated, so I'm a bit worried about the efficacy of the cure. Does anyone here have any other anecdotes or advice about these, our two most common sexually transmitted ailments? Do you prefer Zithromax or the shot in the buttocks (Ceftriaxone)? Any other treatments? Which one do you think is easier on the gut, Zithromax or the Shot?

I fear Zithromax's tendency to kill off the good gut organisms - a friend of mine was taking antibiotics for food poisoning and ended up with pseudomembranous colitis, which luckily for him was cured with metronidazole. I always eat a lot of yoghurt after taking antibiotics. Anyway, time to share your Clap experiences.

[Billy Ibrox]

o****: ye sound like david hume. great to see ye spouting philosophy as the white stuff runs down yer legs.

there are some nasty does to be had in the kingsom of thailand. one reason is because the infected, people like you, and the hookers, don't get proper medical attention but prefer a jab in the arse or a yellow pack chemist. if i was you, i'd get a proper medical check up and follow the proscibed course of action. but i'm nae you. i am as clean as the spring heather on ben nevis. you, on the other hand, now have insides as dirty as a bangkok sewer. ye better get checked fae other souvenirs as yer at it.

ah dinnae ken what yer waffling about yoghurt for. some swear by blueberries but they probably cost a pretty penny there in thailand. do ye intend tae fuck on and give them more than they bargained for?

happy fucking.

[M P Lurker]

Fellows, I have paid the price that one occasionally pays for enjoying our hobby the natural way. Yes, I have the Clap.
<cut>
Anyway, time to share your Clap experiences.
Doesn't your post rather belong to the UNSAFE Sex Forum? :-)
Who did you catch it from?
Do you thoroughly inspect girls pussies for cleanliness and panties for stains prior to sex? I suppose any goo coming out could be mistaken for the last guys come juice?

I have had Clamydia once in my life. Wasn't sure if was from BBBJ from girl at the Grace Coffee shop or from uncovered sex with girl back in the home country (2 weeks earler), who claimed to have checked and be totally free of it (but can't trust women to tell the truth). As there was no other unprotected activity I was inclined to blame the BBBJ even though the doctor ignorantly stated that it was impossible to catch from oral sex. Could have been the toilet seat I suppose :-)
Don't expect I will ever catch another STD, but I still get BBBJs, so lightning could strike twice.

How many girls are you intending to infect shortly? (since you didn't mention this issue) or are you intending a short holiday from barebacking?
I presume not, since covered sex is so pathetic for you.

Should I be in "Fight Club" or am I only mildly provocative.

I belive Errythromycin is really good stuff (and I used to be able to buy in Thailand), but its hard to get these days as the health authorites are keeping it back for those bacteria that have developed immunity to other antibotics. The best antibotics are therefore not available. Too much exposure of the best antibotics would increase likelyhood of resistant bacteria mutations becoming the dominant strains.
Isn't it easier just to see the doctor and get a prescription or injection in the arse.

[The Traveler]

Fellows, I have paid the price that one occasionally pays for enjoying our hobby the natural way. Yes, I have the Clap. Or rather I may have either clamydia or the clap, or both. ...

I have taken just this morning the 1 gram dose of Zithromax I always take for these maladies...

Opebo,

how could this happen to such an "experienced" bareback monger like you ?

I see it's not the first time you experience one of the side effects of your activities and you obviously don't have the guts to see a qualified medic, or are you just cheap ?

BTW, what would you do if it would have been HIV ?
Would you still go bareback, spread it and kill others ?
Or would you finally take responsibility for your actions and do the right thing ?
Hmm, I guess not since there is no right or wrong in Opebo's world.

[Opebo]

Opebo,

how could this happen to such an "experienced" bareback monger like you ?

Well, you see, The Traveler, I placed my penis in the anus-holes of numerous women, and moved it to and fro for, on average, perhaps 20 to 30 minutes. The microbes were no doubt living in one or more of the aforementioned anuses (I looked it up - it isn't anii), and a number of them found their way into my urethra, where they lived and bred for many generations before being killed off by the mighty Zithromax. A gripping tale and a Manichean struggle or mere meaningless happenstance? I suppose it depends upon your point of view.


I see it's not the first time you experience one of the side effects of your activities and you obviously don't have the guts to see a qualified medic, or are you just cheap ?

Neither.. I do that every other time, as I think it is good to 'switch up' antibiotics. The price is actually about the same.

I was happy to answer your practical questions, but please post your useful anecdotes of STDs, The Traveler, and confine disputation and hypothetical to The Fight Club.

[The Traveler]

Opebo,

you did not answer all of my questions !

Additionally my questions do have Safe Sex as subject and therefore belong to the "Safe Sex in Thailand" section. But thanks for your advice, I will attend to it as much as you attend to our advice of not going bareback.

BTW, I am astonished that you can't determine if a question is rhetorical or not, thought you are a smart guy (at least you believe so).

[Tiger 888]

I found this in the Indonesia Surabaya thread:


Stupid me did not use a condom and I think I might have an STD now as I've been having burning sensations while [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) and even sometimes when I'm not [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112). Can anyone recommend an English speaking STD clinic in Surabaya I can go to? Or should I go to Jakarta? This is the first time in my life I've contracted an STD so its a little scary for me. Yes I know I was stupid not to use a condom.


Sorry to place this reply in this section, but perhaps it is urgent. Hm Hw, simply take a one time 1 gram dose of Zithromax (generic name azithromycin), which should be available at the pharmacy.
Just to let you know whith whom we deal here. I feel this is crossing the line of non acceptability. Maybe we will soon fnd a thread "Dr. Opebo in Thailand" where all barebackers can consult him.
Here the link to the report:
548729

[Billy Ibrox]

sexual diseases can kill and should not be treated lightly or in a cavalier fashion. think what you like about doctors but a medical check up and medical expertise is essential when dealing with them.

the philippines, for example, relies too heavily on trips to the chemist and chemists are a hugh business there. if you go to a chemist shop there, your life is in the hands of an under paid 18 year old babe.

is this what o**** is doing? some of the barebackers will have throughly filthy pussies and only a lunatic would dip his wick there. there are no quick fix solutions. microbes want to live too and they evolve to fight off these silver bullets. this is especially so as many of the locals will not finish the course of treatment.
anyone who seels they have a sexual disease should get it medically exmained and follow through on the prescribed treatment.

[Opebo]

Dear Tiger, I was only passing on information that I originally learned on this forum! I too used to go to the doctor and get the shot every time I got the Clap, but it really isn't necessary.

I do still go in for the shot about every other time in the interest of not taking any one antibiotic too frequently, but Zithromax is a mainstay of mongering.


There are some nasty does to be had in the Kingsom of Thailand. One reason is because the infected, people like you, and the hookers, don't get proper medical attention but prefer a jab in the arse or a yellow pack chemist. If I was you, I'd get a proper medical check up and follow the proscibed course of action.

The 'jab in the arse' is the prEscribed course of action, Billy.


BUt I'm nae you. I am as clean as the spring heather on Ben Nevis. You, on the other hand, now have insides as dirty as a Bangkok sewer.

No, I was cured by Zithromax, Billy.


Ah dinnae ken what yer waffling about yoghurt for. Some swear by blueberries but they probably cost a pretty penny there in Thailand.

The yogurt is an attempt to re-introduce the 'good' bacteria into the intestinal tract that is inevitably killed off by the anti-biotics, along with the targeted microbes. One wishes to avoid a florescence of the 'bad' gut bacteria, as it can lead to pseudomembranous colitis, a more serious condition than the Clap by far.

[Billy Ibrox]

o****, only pigs get cured.

if you have no got a clearance after a full blood and [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample from a qualified doctor, you are not cured.

[Opebo]

if you have no got a clearance after a full blood and [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample from a qualified doctor, you are not cured.

no, in fact the treatment applied causes the symptoms to cease and not return, so the microbes have been killed off. untill the next exposure of course!

full blood and [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample, for clamydia/gonorrhea! what ridiculous overkill. but i understand that such wasteful shenanegans probably assuage your sexual guilt. happily i am free of such feelings, and am no more embarrassed by the clap than by a headcold.

i apologize if this posting appears confrontational, but i do think that the psychological aspect of stds is worth discussing - after all these are mostly incredibly minor ailments, except for the one that is incredibly hard to catch, so the obsessive attention we give them is quite telling.

[The Traveler]

...I apologize if this posting appears confrontational, but I do think that the psychological aspect of STDs is worth discussing...
Opebo,

you need a psyche to do so, therefore you aren't qualified.

[Keeniu]

free and anonymous testing readily available in most home countries. do people not understand why?

i forget the test where they stick a stainless steel wire swab down mr happy, but am pleased to report no longer done. just a [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) test nowadays. tg! .

the qualified doctors go ape shit over popping pills, because chances are you may have copped a resistant strain. and if you pop something, test results after you feel it has not made any difference, may/will mask things. i am not qualified, so stop here. but it would be sweet to picture a pre-tablet [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample container in the new 'liquids' fly bag rule, and the poor customs guys freaking out. one doctor commented to the business man, your wife may get suspicious with condom sex for the week, but she will be bloody more aggro if she picks up something, and won't have to think too hard. and these bright business sods. really believe they can see doctor 'have a shot' that works instantly, and go home as if nothing has happened.

do yourself a favour. get checked back home. easy as [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) (1 wk turnaround and no guessing if a thimble trick was pulled). get a hep be vaccination before leaving if you have not already. and cover up. sun cancers can kill you too. 20 years later.

reading the forum's, i read that basically the girls, now are not checked. not monthly. nada. bar owners lie. now 20 years ago, i believe it was a dodgey something, but at least something. with protection, hiv with protection is unlikely, but there are a host of other social nasties. or even occupational overuse syndrome. i begin to suspect this 'user pays' health scam is or has damaged social good. one mentioned 50, 000 bt for a check up. rubbish its medi-pimping. should be cheap as, apart from the bloodwork. 20 years ago the girls waved a gubby bit of paper saying mr, me clean. yeah laugh at that.

because right now, i see it as pot luck, and barowners are reptiles.

now, you take things unknown. how things have gone downhill. so is the real determinant customer complains, ok she kicked out or moved on to someplace elsewhere. dog eat dog world we live in.

[Petemcc]

no, in fact the treatment applied causes the symptoms to cease and not return, so the microbes have been killed off. untill the next exposure of course!

full blood and [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample, for clamydia/gonorrhea! what ridiculous overkill. but i understand that such wasteful shenanegans probably assuage your sexual guilt. happily i am free of such feelings, and am no more embarrassed by the clap than by a headcold.

i apologize if this posting appears confrontational, but i do think that the psychological aspect of stds is worth discussing - after all these are mostly incredibly minor ailments, except for the one that is incredibly hard to catch, so the obsessive attention we give them is quite telling.

you are such a simple ****. a mere 8 days or so after announcing you have a dose of something you bareback some poor girl up the arse.
how the fuck do you know you are no longer infectious? if you had any idea about how treatment regiemes work you would know, as billy said, that the only sure way is a negative blood test or swab. not only can many bacterial infections be asymptomatic, especially when they are there in small numbers, but often there is not a 100% kill rate, especially when amateurs play doctor and know what they are doing, apparently.

i think you have hit the absolute bottom of the shit pile and the top of the pile of irresponsibility.

[Opebo]

Dear Policeman,
The medicament I utilized, like most cures for gonorrhea and clamydia, is a one time dose. Therefore, the fact that I went from drip drip to dry as a bone and stayed that way is ample evidence of a full recovery - had there been residual microbes, they would have bloomed again to recreate the drip-drip. Therefore, my actions seven days hence were not transmissive. Not that it particularly matters if it was, and not that it is any of your business.

[Petemcc]

Dear Policeman,
The medicament I utilized, like most cures for gonorrhea and clamydia, is a one time dose. Therefore, the fact that I went from drip drip to dry as a bone and stayed that way is ample evidence of a full recovery - had there been residual microbes, they would have bloomed again to recreate the drip-drip. Therefore, my actions seven days hence were not transmissive. Not that it particularly matters if it was, and not that it is any of your business.

I was a policeman many years ago. I am a biochemistry graduate with a minor in microbiology and a student nurse, but none of that matters. Why do yo think there are so many antibiotics on the market? Have you ever heard of resistance? Are you so dumb to believe that because there are no symptoms you are not infectious? Many, many diseases are infectious when the carrier shows no signs, take HIV as an example. HAve you ever heard of sub clinical infections? Have you ever studied microbiology? Clearly not. But I forgot, in Opebo world, Opebo is always right, everyone else is wrong, fucken hell, the world must be so simple for you, a bit like your knowledge of microbiology. You may think you are a smart ****, full of rhetoric, and able to construct half-decent posts, but really, you are ignorant and dangerous. I could go on, but I am just shaking my head in disbelief at your stubborness and stupdity.
And, if it's none of my business, why post that you caught a dose on this forum. Is it some sort of boast, or bait or something? You are the one who told the world your business, so don't expect any sympathy or privacy.

[Tiger 888]

I was a policeman many years ago. I am a biochemistry graduate with a minor in microbiology and a student nurse, but none of that matters. Why do yo think there are so many antibiotics on the market? Have you ever heard of resistance? Are you so dumb to believe that because there are no symptoms you are not infectious? Many, many diseases are infectious when the carrier shows no signs, take HIV as an example. HAve you ever heard of sub clinical infections? Have you ever studied microbiology? Clearly not. But I forgot, in Opebo world, Opebo is always right, everyone else is wrong, fucken hell, the world must be so simple for you, a bit like your knowledge of microbiology. You may think you are a smart ****, full of rhetoric, and able to construct half-decent posts, but really, you are ignorant and dangerous. I could go on, but I am just shaking my head in disbelief at your stubborness and stupdity.
And, if it's none of my business, why post that you caught a dose on this forum. Is it some sort of boast, or bait or something? You are the one who told the world your business, so don't expect any sympathy or privacy.
Some time ago I caught gonnhorea from a BBJ in Bangkok (yes it does happen) and went to a hospital back in Hong Kong when the symptoms appeared. They diagnosed it and I had to take the antibiotics right in front of them. They then told me to come back after a week (They had registered my ID card and phone number). They told me if I thought that when the symptomes are gone that I wouldn't need to return, they would have me arrested. BTW they of course also did a blood test which proved negative after a long 3 weeks. So much about this low life self diagnoser giving false advice to others and possibly infecting every one.

[Old Thai Hand]

tiger and pete

i think it was established some time ago that

a/ o**** is always right in o****land.
b/ o**** does not care about the consequences of his actions.
c/ o**** does not care what we think of him.
d/ o**** does not care about anyone, but himself.

so, what's the point of stating the obvious? everyone of the slightest intelligence on this board sees him for what he is. if someone is stupid enough to admire him and/or follow in his footsteps, there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

[Sasha Coffee]

Opebo

Please don't ever think of coming to New Zealand. On behalf of all working girls here.

And if you do, please make it one that has the balls to call the police and report and have your ass convicted of trying to procure sex without a condom.

You filty, disrespectful horrid little man.

It is people like you that help spread the AIDS virus and lots of other nasties by relying on the lack of education in the countries you monger in.

May your next check up reveal prostrate cancer and put a final end to your mongering days

[Billy Ibrox]

opebo

please don't ever think of coming to new zealand. on behalf of all working girls here. selfish and sexist. are kiwis something more important? are kiwi hookers girls or women?

and if you do, please make it one that has the balls to call the police and report and have your ass convicted of trying to procure sex without a condom. ass or arse?. is it against the law to have comdomnless sex in kiwiland?

you filty, disrespectful horrid little man. no need for this further sexism and dwarfism. he pays to fuck low life, not to respect them.

it is people like you that help spread the aids virus and lots of other nasties by relying on the lack of education in the countries you monger in. alarmist misinformation. the lack of education of prostitutes/drug addicts and their type are far more important, as are the ac/dc merchants. check out sid the sexist on ladyboys epididemics in pattaya.

may your next check up reveal prostrate cancer and put a final end to your mongering days [red] http://www.prostatecancerfoundation.org/ assumning you mean prostate cancer, a "healthy" sex life might help.if o**** is just doing a wind up ok. if he fucks these bottom feeders condomless, do we really care about them? let's face it. prostitutes are the bottom of the human barrel. we rent them to abuse them and then dispose of them.

o****'s fun and games should not give the green light for propaganda. the hookers of thailand are a sea of infections because they are the low life with mo means of negotiation. if a thai hooker does not do what we want, we move on and get a better performing monkey to dance to the tune we pay for.

sid the sexist has already told other less than prime cuts of meat where they stand. we pay them to open their [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flaps and to open their mouths only when we want to put our dicks into it. there is nothing worse than a babbling sex toy.

[Bumholes1]

Contrary to my name, I am not into arse fucking, bareback or otherwise.

Zithromax might work for Opebo, but it is relatively expensive. Having observed the medicine prescribed by a Doctor many years ago for a dose, I now use Norfloxacin 400mg (1 tablet only) when I have a problem, and it works within hours. Costs 4bt a tablet.

[Traveler1234]

tiger and pete

i think it was established some time ago that

a/ o**** is always right in o****land.
b/ o**** does not care about the consequences of his actions.
c/ o**** does not care what we think of him.
d/ o**** does not care about anyone, but himself.

so, what's the point of stating the obvious? everyone of the slightest intelligence on this board sees him for what he is. if someone is stupid enough to admire him and/or follow in his footsteps, there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

well said, best to ignore his posts and he'll eventually move to other thread or hopefully just disappear from the board.

[Member #2041]

Opebo...
May your next check up reveal prostrate cancer and put a final end to your mongering days

Why would a diagnosis of prostrate (sic) cancer put a final end to one's mongering days? Prostate cancer is, after all, generally a slow moving and fully treatable cancer.

[Sasha Coffee]

I was not trying to finger point or talk of morals.

As you say I'm just a hooker with no morals.

I just find this sought of behaviour totally ridiculous and very offensive, in my personal opinion and it is only an opinion Opebo appears to be taking advantage of sex workers in a country where the education of sexually transmitted diseases is quite limited and the poverty level high.

Not only is he taking advantage of the WG in this country and putting them at risk of infections he is also putting all other mongers at risk.

As for the protrate cancer I was only making an statement, since Opebo feels he is above needing a doctors advice and has decided to self medicate to treat his STD's it would also appear that it would be a long time before he bothered to check any irregular happenings in his genital area.

[Tiger 888]

if o**** is just doing a wind up ok. if he fucks these bottom feeders condomless, do we really care about them? let's face it. prostitutes are the bottom of the human barrel. we rent them to abuse them and then dispose of them.

o****'s fun and games should not give the green light for propaganda. the hookers of thailand are a sea of infections because they are the low life with mo means of negotiation. if a thai hooker does not do what we want, we move on and get a better performing monkey to dance to the tune we pay for.

sid the sexist has already told other less than prime cuts of meat where they stand. we pay them to open their [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flaps and to open their mouths only when we want to put our dicks into it. there is nothing worse than a babbling sex toy.here is the prove that not only one or two lower of the lowest mongers are around here. it's getting ugly. those who desperately try to make a living because they are born on the wrong side if the zero luck scale, at least are humans. you don't qualify.
no more comments from my side on this issue!

[Daddy07]

... bottom feeders ... do we really care about them? Yes, Billy, some human beings care. Scum might not.

[Billy Ibrox]

here is the prove that not only one or two lower of the lowest mongers are around here. it's getting ugly. those who desperately try to make a living because they are born on the wrong side if the zero luck scale, at least are humans. you don't qualify.

no more comments from my side on this issue!so some who ppen their [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flaps and drink sperm for an easy living are human and those of us who pay taxes and are not junkies are not? if you want to start a charity for prostitutes, their heroin habits, their pimps and their lies, go ahead. if you think we should send money to isaan sperm drinkers, fine, send your own. but don't go building altars to these [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flap openers. we pay them to get them to leave after fuck them. they are fuck toys, pure and simple. their opinions are as worthless as themselves. just think what any self respecing thai, the shop and hotel assistants included, thinks of your companion.

if o**** is stupid enough to dip his wick uncovered into the mucous these "women" carry. let him or stop him. but don't preach. just remember he is not the only one. then we have sid the sexist saying pattaya is overrun by ladyboys. and we have the ac/dcs of soi 6 and boyztown. anyone who does not cover up is looking for a very painful aftermath.

i always cover up and am careful which of these bottom feeders i allow suck my dick and rim my arse. actually, i have more fun and games in store for them just to see how far they wil ldegrade themsekves for a few bob.

and tiger, go check out the murders of the ipswich prostitutes. their "friends", the mr nice guys, killed them. to me, the idea of having a prostitute as a friend is more bizzarre than anything i will pay them to do.

thai hookers might have a low opinion of o****, assuming they bother to think of anything but dick sucking. but do you really think they admire a sucker who treats and pay them better than the ordinary had working women of pattaya, who work 7 days a week in stores etc. they are the ones deserve the bulk of your money. the others are only good for jerking off on.

[Tiger 888]

Today my PM box was spammed by Tampaman45 a no posts yet member since August 06 titeling "HIV cure By Dr H. R. Clark".
Whoever also received this, here some links:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/01/drclark.htm
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.html

[Petemcc]

so some who ppen their [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flaps and drink sperm for an easy living are human and those of us who pay taxes and are not junkies are not? if you want to start a charity for prostitutes, their heroin habits, their pimps and their lies, go ahead. if you think we should send money to isaan sperm drinkers, fine, send your own. but don't go building altars to these [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flap openers. we pay them to get them to leave after fuck them. they are fuck toys, pure and simple. their opinions are as worthless as themselves. just think what any self respecing thai, the shop and hotel assistants included, thinks of your companion.

if o**** is stupid enough to dip his wick uncovered into the mucous these "women" carry. let him or stop him. but don't preach. just remember he is not the only one. then we have sid the sexist saying pattaya is overrun by ladyboys. and we have the ac/dcs of soi 6 and boyztown. anyone who does not cover up is looking for a very painful aftermath.

i always cover up and am careful which of these bottom feeders i allow suck my dick and rim my arse. actually, i have more fun and games in store for them just to see how far they wil ldegrade themsekves for a few bob.

and tiger, go check out the murders of the ipswich prostitutes. their "friends", the mr nice guys, killed them. to me, the idea of having a prostitute as a friend is more bizzarre than anything i will pay them to do.

thai hookers might have a low opinion of o****, assuming they bother to think of anything but dick sucking. but do you really think they admire a sucker who treats and pay them better than the ordinary had working women of pattaya, who work 7 days a week in stores etc. they are the ones deserve the bulk of your money. the others are only good for jerking off on.

billy

i take it that you are a good protestant boy from glasgow by your name, i am a good protestant boy from belfast.
this may not be the right place for this, but i just want to pull you up a bit on what you said.
mate, for many years, especially as a cop in manchester, i thought prostitutes were druggie scum, and indeed they were. i even got mixed up with one in oz who fucked me over. however, i have also used the services of wg professionals here (oz) and these non-druggie girls were very good and very professional.
sure, it is a very lucrative and some may say easy profession, and for many, the easy way out. i agree, the real thai girls who work too many hours a day to make a 'moral' living deserve more, but the girls who sacrafice their dignity to earn easy money shouldn't be chastised so much and abused like you do. i am sure none of us thinks of ourselves as complete twats, or hideously ugly to girls, but remember that these girls( ok by choice), will fuck anyone for money, and to be honest if they pretend to enjoy it, and if we, as mongers get something out of it, then it is a service.
billy, i'm not saying these girls are angels, but why the abuse? for fuck's sake man, they're people, not fucken armed robbers or suicide bombers. just because they provide a service at what many would describe as the lower end of the spectrum, doesn't mean they don't deserve respect. the people who sweep the streets and pick up shit also deserve respect as they do the jobs we don't want to do. we're protestants mate, hopefully not 'wee frees' . that other church imposed strict and hipocritical moral values on everything, and the extremists on our side were worse, even shunning the evil drink, but think about it billy, we are the ones who protest against the stupid morals. you don't need to slander wgs, they're people, people who generally will cause you no harm, so compare them to celtic fans or armed robbers, or car thieves, or... i could go on. give them a break mate, they keep you happy.
pete

[SidTheSexist]

then we have sid the sexist saying pattaya is overrun by ladyboys. .i have only been on and off the forums recently due to travels down here in los, so i am not quite up to speed with the ongoing debate. however, i am very interested to learn, without reading too far back, wtf my observation has done to warrant an inclusion in your post?? if you would like to bring me into fight club to flame me then plaese do so and make it clear. but dont try involving me in your petty battles. i neither care nor want anything to do with them.
sid

[Billy Ibrox]

pattaya report 319:
my last night in patts tonight. ive been in and out of the place over the last 3 weeks and what strikes me the most this time round is the amount of russians and ladyboys. theyre everywhere. sid


however, i am very interested to learn, without reading too far back, wtf my observation has done to warrant an inclusion in your post?? sidsid: we were discusisng safe sex and you tell us the ladyboys are everywhere. that means lots of guys are fucking them and/or being fucked by them. so your post is very relevant as you are on the scene. your post means cover up and watch out. it is very very useful.

petemcc: i have seen the celtic scum with ladyboys in pattaya on everal occasions and i would expect nothing more from those soap dodgers.

shit happens just like it happened to those five in ipswich. we should use them abuse them and move on. we all know their lives are rotten. but don't get involved. and don't get suckered.

o**** admits he doesn't give a fuck. maybe he is a wind up. but there are many o****s out there. anyone who does not cover up out of self interest is thick and probably a tommie celtic ****.

as for the ladies, shed no tears for them. they sold their souls away a long time ago. fuck them and forget them. ships passing in the night.

i notice the complaints about stray dogs and crying babies in pattaya. that is the future. the place is just too valuable. and as there are planefulls of chiense coming, say goodbye to the life we knew. grab the crumbs while ye can.

[NicFrenchy]

Billy,

Aren't all prostitutes "women" before they are prostitutes?

Do you actually think they had a dream as little girls to become prostitutes?

Most Thai women do it because they have a kid and their husband left them, probably beat them up too from time to time. Family is the number one worry of Thai ladies, their parents, brothers and sisters and their kids.

I respect them, highly. To prostitute oneself in sacrifice for one's family is an admirable think to do, and not as easy as you would think.

I would think again before judging these ladies by the work they do. Some of them are exceptional women and very fun to be around.

(of course, I wouldn't expect someone like you to see this seeing as to how you refer to them)

[Phantomtiger2]

Billy,


Do you actually think they had a dream as little girls to become prostitutes?

Most Thai women do it because they have a kid and their husband left them, probably beat them up too from time to time. Family is the number one worry of Thai ladies, their parents, brothers and sisters and their kids.

)

Although true to some degree, I also know some FL that do it simply for the money. No kids or family involved. She didnt really need the money from prostitution to survive as they had decent day jobs already but just so she could buy nicer clothes, bigger TV's, buying a car instead of riding a moto. etc.
Then again I've also met some that simply like to f**k, so why not get some money out of it.
May not be a big % of them but they are out there.


PT

[Opebo]

Barebacking pussy maybe, but barebacking anally? Is that not taking the risk a bit far. How available is barebacking in your experience, Would like to fill some thai fuck toy pussy with lots of cum in Feb but still not sure. Must have been great in the '70 before all the Aids shit hit the fan. At least back then you could fuck bareback for ten day and fill at least 15 pussys and probably get nothing that a short course of antibiotics wouldn't clear!

Kcuf, in my opinion anal sex is safer than vaginal for the penetrative party, because with the use of plenty of KY and proper preparation, there should be no anal bleeding, particularly with an experienced reciever. Therefore very little infective juice should contact one's member. By contrast the vagina produces copious amounts of lubricant, though to be fair it is only marginally infective.

[M P Lurker]

Billy,

Aren't all prostitutes "women" before they are prostitutes?

Do you actually think they had a dream as little girls to become prostitutes?

Most Thai women do it because they have a kid and their husband left them, probably beat them up too from time to time. Family is the number one worry of Thai ladies, their parents, brothers and sisters and their kids.

I respect them, highly. To prostitute oneself in sacrifice for one's family is an admirable think to do, and not as easy as you would think.

I would think again before judging these ladies by the work they do. Some of them are exceptional women and very fun to be around.

(of course, I wouldn't expect someone like you to see this seeing as to how you refer to them)
Well said! I couldn't agree more.
Anyway prostitution is just another job the same as any other.
Its just that the girls have to put up with something sometimes ugly (the guy, his behaviour, clenliness, etc.) to get more money.
If I could earn ten times what I earn now, I would put up with some ugliness in my job no doubt, at least for a couple of years!
Remember also that many classy P4P girls choose their customer.
They don't just go with anyone.
Some working girls are really into a lot of sex.
So why not get good money for it at the same time.

There are many motivations for a sex worker.
Us mongers who love to be their customers have no right to look down on them.
Mongers who treat the girls, in general, with contempt should equally be held in contempt.
O.K. if the girl is pathetic at her profession or a con artist, that is clearly a reason for holding her in contempt.
I have a great deal of respect for girls who are able to give me a GFE when we have only just met a few minutes, often without any apparant acting. Sometimes they just have the ability to get into having a good time quickly.

[Billy Ibrox]

prostitution is just another job the same as any other.
..if i could earn ten times what i earn now...remember also that many classy p4p girls choose their customer quote]mick: become a hooker or a drug dealer if money is all that floats your boat. most women do not become hookers. it is the dregs of society do. check out the five hookers killed in ipswich. all smackheads. the pattaya hookers are no different, shabu, secret boyfreinds etc.

[quote=mick licker] i have a great deal of respect for girls who are able to give me a gfe when we have only just met a few minutes, often without any apparant acting.your gfe has probably been rimming my arse 5 minutes earlier or has had someone dump a load on her. that is why they are being run out of pattaya. they are regarded as trash and so are their gentlemen boyfriends/grandpas.

o****: you have probably more venereal diseases than you can imagine. while it is true that butt fucking a bottom feeder might be safer for the fucker than the fuckee, it is still a dangerous pursuit as it abandons due care. but you probably don't care until it affects you.

anyway, i have had my say in this safe sex thread. the pussy cats here show why a fool and their money are so easily parted. hookers exist to be fucked and forgotten and maybe foold as well. if you have spare cash, give it to someone who puts in an honest day's work. hookers are already dead inside. they are a waste of time and money. good only as spem catchers and arse wipes.

[Finrod]

Kcuf, in my opinion anal sex is safer than vaginal for the penetrative party, because with the use of plenty of KY and proper preparation, there should be no anal bleeding, particularly with an experienced reciever. Therefore very little infective juice should contact one's member. By contrast the vagina produces copious amounts of lubricant, though to be fair it is only marginally infective.
Penetrative anal sex is subject to the risks of herpes and hepatitis B, among other things. They aren't fatal, but then again, they do not go away with a simple shot.

[Sasha Coffee]

Billy,

You might think that hookers are dead inside, but reading your posts you are fill of bitter hatred, obviously someone taught you some lessons the hard way.

I don't think hookers are dead inside, I believe anyone can be dead inside the occupation has nothing to do with it.

Bitterness, Hatred and condemnation of fellow human beings lifestyles are what causes someone to be dead inside.

Oh and by the way, if you hate hookers so much you should stop paying them to do their job that way you can create unemployment and eventually if you can convince the whole world of mongers to stop paying for sex the hooker that you seem to detest and hate so much will be no longer.

[Billy Ibrox]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Terry Terrier]

This thread is for safe sex, something I believe in.

Daddy07: All prostitutes are bottom feeders. There is no need to pity the bottom feeders I pick up. I pay the going rate, get my rocks off, pay them and get them to leave. JUst like when I use a public urinal, I [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) in it, zip up, wash my hands and leave. No difference from urinal to urinal. The people you should feel sorry for are those who entertain delusions about these creatures.

I ask you to take the five wretches killed in Ipswich as a good example. They were "good girls gone bad" and were killed, it seems, by someone who had notions of having a close relationshiop with them, by "good punters" in other words. Hookers exist for our amusement and they should not be regarded as ordinary women. They are fuck toys, pure and simple. And we should simply fuck and pay them and never trust them for a single minute.

It is much more enjoyable to spend money on sport and on normal leisure than on bottom feeders. They exist just for us to empty our bags into them and then get on with better things. We don't vandalise a urinal when we use it. Why should we disrespect human ones?

Sasha Coffee: You have never bought a prostitute. You are a prostitute. Your "views" are irrelevant.

Cover up is the only good advice. We always have issues with posters who make claims that they have devised a safe uncovered sex technique.


But Billy, you are one of the punters we worry about the most on this forum. You have an obsession with violence, and in particular punting violence. And you (under a previous cyber-incarnation) made the worrying leap from bright optimist to dark cynic. You later (under another cyber-incarnation) described Thai sexworkers as being on the same level of sentience as pet puppy dogs, and later still made (and quickly deleted) what what appeared to be a suicide note post in which you described having sex with and murdering a transvestite. And now you are back, with the same de-humanizing talk about sexworkers. Very, very worrying.

It's a tragedy you fell out with with your old forum pal, Joe Zop (who seemed to be a calming influence on you). Your downfall started at that juncture.

Here is JZ's take on the ground rules of punting in Thailand:


It's not terribly difficult to understand that this is all a game to separate you from as much cash as possible and still manage not to take it as something that makes sex workers less than human. If you pay her and she fucks you she's holding up her end of the bargain, and all the rest is whatever you make of it. If you head to LOS having read this forum and knowing what the scene is and still end up supporting some Thai honey from afar under the illusion it's love, then it's you who deserve ridicule or censure, not the TG.

There's a difference between knowing how things work and heaping scorn on sex workers because of it.

My viewpoint exactly. I just wish I could articulate as well as Joe.

[J Jack]

Been reading the dark stuff on this thread, way too heavy for me. Best item of worldly advice I ever got was from an older retiered working girl when she said "All women are born with a goldmine, the unfortunate thing is that 95% of them only sit on it"

Now to my real question: I am wanting to load up on about 3 grams of the anitbiotic Zythromax just before I leave Bangkok, to chase away anything that may have made it's way through the first two lines of defence (condoms and copious washing with soap and water). Can a person get Antibiotics in a Bangkok pharmacy with a perscription from a doctor?

[Billy Ibrox]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Johnson994]

Dear Policeman,
The medicament I utilized, like most cures for gonorrhea and clamydia, is a one time dose. Therefore, the fact that I went from drip drip to dry as a bone and stayed that way is ample evidence of a full recovery - had there been residual microbes, they would have bloomed again to recreate the drip-drip. Therefore, my actions seven days hence were not transmissive. Not that it particularly matters if it was, and not that it is any of your business. Can you get it with out pescription since I have gonorrhea?

[Cowboy Brew]

This thread is for safe sex, something I believe in.

Daddy07: All prostitutes are bottom feeders. There is no need to pity the bottom feeders I pick up. I pay the going rate, get my rocks off, pay them and get them to leave. JUst like when I use a public urinal, I [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) in it, zip up, wash my hands and leave. No difference from urinal to urinal. The people you should feel sorry for are those who entertain delusions about these creatures.

I ask you to take the five wretches killed in Ipswich as a good example. They were "good girls gone bad" and were killed, it seems, by someone who had notions of having a close relationshiop with them, by "good punters" in other words. Hookers exist for our amusement and they should not be regarded as ordinary women. They are fuck toys, pure and simple. And we should simply fuck and pay them and never trust them for a single minute.

It is much more enjoyable to spend money on sport and on normal leisure than on bottom feeders. They exist just for us to empty our bags into them and then get on with better things. We don't vandalise a urinal when we use it. Why should we disrespect human ones?

Sasha Coffee: You have never bought a prostitute. You are a prostitute. Your "views" are irrelevant.Your thoughts and your views on things around you appeared like they come from a public urinal.

[Terry Terrier]

Johnson994,

If you're in Thailand, get yourself into a pharmacy and ask the pharmacist for advice (and adhere to the advice - it's an antibiotic treatment which means that the symptoms will clear, lulling you into a false sense of security, before the virus fucks off). If you're in farangland it's the GUM (or equivalent) clinic. The staff at these places tend to be drama queens - the policy is to scare their clients into adopting safe sexual practices (and quite rightly). Don't worry about your visit to one of these clinics coming back to haunt you: You don't need a referral, and can use a made-up name if you want to.

Billy,

Upgrade yourself from the 4-600bt places in which you like to rest your head to somewhere like the Areca (about 1k). These types of hotels have small, quiet (usually empty) free-to-use gyms. No gayness, but nobody to show off to (gayness) if that is part of your gym trip. Just a no-fuss, get fit workout.

Friends tell me the diving is better from the small koh's because the sewage doesn't float that far. But don't you know all this stuff already?

Try to keep a balanced profile on here this time. You're one of the brightest, wittiest posters when you're not working yourself up into all of a foaming-at-the-mouth blather (or 'sweating the small stuff' as you like to describe it).

[J Jack]

Been reading the dark stuff on this thread, way too heavy for me. Best item of worldly advice I ever got was from an older retiered working girl when she said "All women are born with a goldmine, the unfortunate thing is that 95% of them only sit on it"

Now to my real question: I am wanting to load up on about 3 grams of the anitbiotic Zythromax just before I leave Bangkok, to chase away anything that may have made it's way through the first two lines of defence (condoms and copious washing with soap and water). Can a person get Antibiotics in a Bangkok pharmacy with a perscription from a doctor?Ops, meant without a perscription from a doctor. Sorry.

[BuleDaddy]

The one in Pattaya will have you in and out, complete with blood work, consultation and medications in less than an hour. It might cost $1500 bht. The Bumragrad in Bankok might take overnight and cost more for the results but it is worth having them open a file for you. Rich Arabs and Germans take their wives there to have babies. Don't self medicate. Symptoms might dissapear and you could still have it.

[Opebo]

Originally Posted by J Jack
Been reading the dark stuff on this thread, way too heavy for me. Best item of worldly advice I ever got was from an older retiered working girl when she said "All women are born with a goldmine, the unfortunate thing is that 95% of them only sit on it"

Now to my real question: I am wanting to load up on about 3 grams of the anitbiotic Zythromax just before I leave Bangkok, to chase away anything that may have made it's way through the first two lines of defence (condoms and copious washing with soap and water). Can a person get Antibiotics in a Bangkok pharmacy with a perscription from a doctor?

Ops, meant without a perscription from a doctor. Sorry.

J Jack, Thailand is still a relatively free country in some ways, and yes, you can by Zithromax at any pharmacy without a prescription. It is usually in the 550-575 baht range for one box of 6 500 mg capsules.

And great point about the vaginal gold.

[Petemcc]

Ops, meant without a perscription from a doctor. Sorry.

What a fantastic way of helping the little bastards gain antibiotic resistance. Do yourself a favour, ask a doctor or pharmacist about your plan and I'm sure they'll let you know how foolish it is.
Antibiotics aren't a vaccination or innoculation, they don't create immunity from disease. Stop fucking with antibiotics and then there won't be so many strains of resistant bacteria around.

ps I don't like using web resourses, but this may help with the other danger of using antibiotics without medical supervision.
http://www.drugs.com/zithromax.html

[M P Lurker]

Been reading the dark stuff on this thread, way too heavy for me. Best item of worldly advice I ever got was from an older retiered working girl when she said "All women are born with a goldmine, the unfortunate thing is that 95% of them only sit on it"

Now to my real question: I am wanting to load up on about 3 grams of the anitbiotic Zythromax just before I leave Bangkok, to chase away anything that may have made it's way through the first two lines of defence (condoms and copious washing with soap and water). Can a person get Antibiotics in a Bangkok pharmacy with a perscription from a doctor?

3 Grams is too much to take. Two 500 gm tablets (one dose) is normal prescription to cure Clamydia as the antibotic stays in your system for several days.

Opebo could potentially have still infected others since period recommended by doctors to wait till be safe after taking Azithromycin is up to 2 weeks. Having no drip is not necessarily a cure proof.

Some time ago I used a condom but caught Conjuctival Clamydia (which means in the eye and not the dick. Was cured by one dose of Azithromax (over several days - not immediate). Dick was protected by condom but fingers up the pussy were not. Unfortunately didn't know which girl I got it from but Clamydia is highly contagious and some doctors indicate that it is even possible to catch it in some countries from certain insects (like bush flies).

So guys, be warned. After fingering girls you don't know well, be very careful to wash hands thoroughly, before rubbing your eyes.

There is something to be said for curing yourself in terms of keeping your condition secret, but on the other hand you really need to be sure what you have got. So for those that go down the cure yourself route, best to get a subsequent test (after perhaps 2 weeks) to ensure that all STDs are absent. If catching Clamydia, there is increased risk of catching something else concurrently as well.

[Clandestine782]

http://www.thailandguru.com/health-hiv.html

[Diver69]

Point taken, but it offers 100% protection to your dick if your dick NEVER comes in contact with her juices, first hand, or second hand, so to speak! We have established that Chlamydia etc can infect other mucosa, and of course fingering a girl and rubbing her juices on an uncovered dick is a good way to get a dose of something nasty. Similarly DATY poses a risk, but with good oral hygeine (and not brushing your teeth for at least 4 hours before performing DATY) and care afterwards, the risk is minimised. Also a good saliva flow out of our mouths = less of a flow of her juices into our mouths.
I think that most people here realise, well, apart from the obvious few, that sex with someone you don't know, be that P4P or the girl next door, is risky. A condom is inpenetratable to all but sharp objects. Part of the testing phase is an attempt to pass an electric current through it, and if electrons can't get through, not much else should be able to squeeze through, at least of biological size.

FYI, I am currently researching the efficacy of mouthwashes like chlorhexidine ( which will destroy most bacteria, or at least reduce the count so much as they will have little chance of catching hold) in acting as a preventative measure post DATY, as opposed to letting the mormal mouth flora deal with it. Particularly, I am researching whether the repeated use of mouthwashes can significantly reduce the numbers of friendly mouth bacteria, so letting an opportunistic host from DATY get hold. I am leaning towards the use of such mouthwashes for 3 reasons:
1. People do get STI/STD of the mouth, so the commensal flora can't be that good.
2. They use the stuff in hospitals for patients.
3. Pathogen's will probably be relatively few and their numbers should be significantly reduced by the use of chlorhexidine post DATY.


An important point that I forgot to mention is the abuse of antibiotics. Some mongres may take unperscribed antibiotics thinking that they will stop them getting a dose. Apart from resistance issues, the problem is that most antibiotics do significantly reduce the population of the normal mouth flora, so letting potential pathogens ( from DATY etc) take hold. Interesting, prevention could cause infection!

Anyway mate, I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just saying that by exercising due dilligence, if possible, risks should be minimal.
I'll get back on the mouth research bit when it is done.
Pete

I posted this same question in the Safe Sex Forum, but received no response.

I was wondering if it's worthwhile to cleanse your dick after a BBBJ and before putting on the rubber for the covered main event.

I was thinking about getting one of those wet wipes and dousing it with disinfecting alcohol (or even those anti-bacterial lotion), clean the member with it after a BBBJ before I put on the rubber and having intercourse.

Rationale: With the wipe and all, you get rid of all the saliva which otherwise would be caught in the rubber - it's almost like filling the rubber with virus/bacteria/germs, and then sticking your dick into it before you dive in.

Any response?

Diver

[NicFrenchy]

Diver 69,

Very interesting question.

I would love to get an answer to that myself.

[Gladiator]

I posted this same question in the Safe Sex Forum, but received no response.

I was wondering if it's worthwhile to cleanse your dick after a BBBJ and before putting on the rubber for the covered main event.

I was thinking about getting one of those wet wipes and dousing it with disinfecting alcohol (or even those anti-bacterial lotion), clean the member with it after a BBBJ before I put on the rubber and having intercourse.

Rationale: With the wipe and all, you get rid of all the saliva which otherwise would be caught in the rubber - it's almost like filling the rubber with virus/bacteria/germs, and then sticking your dick into it before you dive in.

Any response?

Diver

If you have had a BBBJ you have already exposed your dick to whatever bacteria/virus were in her mouth/saliva, so cleaning your dick before putting the condom will have a minimum effect.

That would be like having a copious meal, with several full fat dishes, and after that taking a white coffee with semi-skimmed milk because you want to look after your weight.

[Petemcc]

if you have had a bbbj you have already exposed your dick to whatever bacteria/virus were in her mouth/saliva, so cleaning your dick before putting the condom will have a minimum effect.

that would be like having a copious meal, with several full fat dishes, and after that taking a white coffee with semi-skimmed milk because you want to look after your weight.

i am not an std expert, but i have a lot of experience, a lot of medical knowledge, and am involved in a medical profession.

the chances of getting hiv from a bj are to be frank so small that they could be ignored, so that rules out a foreskin. other stds need the mucus membranes, which basically means down your jap's eye. the best thing you could do after a bbbj and before donning a rubber is having a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140). [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) from your bladder is sterile, salty, and will irrigate the entire urethra. you can make an excuse that you want to wash your knob before putting it on, or that you just want a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140), but really, if you are worried, having a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) is the best defence, and then give it a wash.

i haven't been able to do much research lately, but frankly, a girl having an std of the throat is quite unlikely. if she has, it should be obvious because her mouth will not exactly be nice- bit like someone with a sore throat.
really, and i am not saying that bbbj are risk free, but according to my latest textbook, they come pretty near the bottom for chances of getting something horrible. remember, saliva is actually quite nasty to most organisms, well mostly bacteria. sure, many of us, or all of us at one time get a cold, but that is a virus, and the various viruses ( including the influenza virus) are very, very good at getting past defences. however, most bacteria are fucked off by the saliva and the commensal bacteria in the mouth. but, as i said before, there are still risks.

frankly, sex with a condom is 100% risk free, if the condom is used properly, there is no prior sexual contact with genitilia, and the condom doesn't break, but in reality, that doesn't happen, so nothing is risk free. the only risk free sexual practice, apart from abstaining, is a totally monogomous relationship ( i wish they had spell check here!), but as mongers, that isn't an option. in other words, it is about risk minimisation.

to be honest, if you cum with the bbbj, you will probably wash anything undesirable away. i'd have a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140), as i said, have a quick wash, and get on with it- if i was trying to be very, very careful, but again as i said, stds of the mouth are pretty uncommon, even with twats like o**** who fuck while infected.

when i go back, i have a new test for a bg:
'do you ever have sex without a condom?' and i will press the issue- even for more money.
if they say yes, they can kiss their barfine goodbye. a girl who looks after herself and is knowledgable will be a lot more risk free, imho, and there are plenty of girls out there.
i hope some of this has been useful.
pete

[Member #3060]

Is anyone here familiar with the Hep B vaccine? I know you need a series of shots over 6 months before you are completed immunized. I got my first Hep b shot about 30 days ago. I'm trying to figure out how much protection from Hep B do I have at this time.

I'm also trying to figure out how common Hep B is. I know at least one poster to this board mentioned that he picked up Hep B while he was in Bangkok but he recoverd just fine. I'm curious how many other people here have contracted Hep B or is everyone pretty much up on their shots? If you don't feel comfortable posting your responses to the board, please feel free to PM me. The input I get from this board will help me decide how I will conduct myself on my trip to BKK next week.

Thanks

[NicFrenchy]

Is anyone here familiar with the Hep B vaccine? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_B

Good link to check.

[M P Lurker]

<cut>
I haven't been able to do much research lately, but frankly, a girl having an STD of the throat is quite unlikely. If she has, it should be obvious because her mouth will not exactly be nice- bit like someone with a sore throat.
Really, and I am not saying that BBBJ are risk free, but according to my latest textbook, they come pretty near the bottom for chances of getting something horrible. remember, saliva is actually quite nasty to most organisms, well mostly bacteria. Sure, many of us, or all of us at one time get a cold, but that is a virus, and the various viruses ( including the influenza virus) are very, very good at getting past defences. However, most bacteria are fucked off by the saliva and the commensal bacteria in the mouth. BUT, as I said before, there are still risks.

Frankly, sex with a condom is 100% risk free, if the condom is used properly, there is no prior sexual contact with genitilia, and the condom doesn't break, but in reality, that doesn't happen, so nothing is risk free. The only risk free sexual practice, apart from abstaining, is a totally monogomous relationship ( I wish they had spell check here!), but as mongers, that isn't an option. In other words, it is about risk minimisation.
<cut>

Firstly Clamydia. This is very easy to catch.
I have now had it twice but no other STDs.
First time I believe I caught from a BBBJ as normal sex was protected by condom.
2nd time I caught it in the left eye (no where else), presumably by not washing hands thoroughly after pussy play.
So clearly Clamydia can be transferred from one thing to another if no great time delay.

Now condoms do in reality break occasionally, particularly from accidentable or deliberate finger nails. Also girls using internal sponges can cause breakage through friction (i have experienced this). Finally occasionally condoms break after prolonged sex for no apparent reason. Has happened to me maybe twice over many years. Good lubrication is important.
In addition condoms can slip off more often than they break, again usually with prolonged sex.
So don't go with girls that are willing not to use condoms.
The condom is great protection nearly all of the time (but accidents do happen).

[NicFrenchy]

2nd time I caught it in the left eye (no where else)You caught a Conjunctivitis, highly contagious! See below:

Causes of Pinkeye

Pinkeye can be caused by many of the bacteria and viruses responsible for colds and other infections, — including ear infections, sinus infections, and sore throats — and by the same types of bacteria that cause the sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) chlamydia and gonorrhea.

[Petemcc]

Firstly Chlymadia. This is very easy to catch.
I have now had it twice but no other STDs.
First time I believe I caught from a BBBJ as normal sex was protected by condom.
2nd time I caught it in the left eye (no where else), presumably by not washing hands thoroughly after pussy play.
So clearly Clamydia can be transferred from one thing to another if no great time delay.

Now condoms do in reality break occasionally, particularly from accidentable or deliberate finger nails. Also girls using internal sponges can cause breakage through friction (i have experienced this). Finally occasionally condoms break after prolonged sex for no apparent reason. Has happened to me maybe twice over many years. Good lubrication is important.
In addition condoms can slip off more often than they break, again usually with prolonged sex.
So don't go with girls that are willing not to use condoms.
The condom is great protection nearly all of the time (but accidents do happen).

You have some good points there, and I notice that you agree with most of what I say.
As stated, nothing is 100% risk free, and you seem to have done pretty well over the years by all accounts. I wonder were you using condoms you brought with you, or local ones?

Yeah, conjunctivitis from chlymadia is actually fairly common. The eyes are fairly susceptable to this unfortunately. Whilst I also accept that chlymadia is the most common STD, it isn't very easy to catch. Well, yeah, if she's rampant with it there is a very strong possibility, but as I said, a good long [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) afterwards will help an awful lot. Probably the important thing is that even if you were to catch it, like you have, you cover up for sex, so not spreading it onto the next girl. Now isn't that easy, and socially responsible? You, by your actions of practising safe sex have probably stopped innumerable other girls/mongers getting a dose of this, rather than like some we know off who would be spreading it around like a cold!

Clearly this hobby has risks, and like you, many of us try to minimise those risks. It's like playing competitive sport I suppose, sooner or later you'll get an injury, only the ones we can get are slightly more embarassing! However, using the sports analogy, if more people practised safe sex, ie played by the rules, the transmission rate would decrease and so would the risk, however there are certain selfish individuals out there who want to raise the odds for all of us by playing by their own rules.
I suppose all we can do is our best for ourselves. If we play by the rules, we shouldn't get too badly hurt, maybe the odd injury, but the more this turns into a free for all, the more the chances of serious injury.
Thanks for your contribution.
Pete

[Terry Terrier]

Whilst I also accept that chlymadia is the most common STD, it isn't very easy to catch. Well, yeah, if she's rampant with it there is a very strong possibility, but as I said, a good long [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) afterwards will help an awful lot.

Pete, assuming that we're discussing unprotected blowjobs, what's the timescale for this? How long does it take for the bug to get down one's urethera, on average, and assuming 'normal' suck and blow pressure? After how many minutes/seconds should I curtail the BBBJ? How much do variable mouth strengths and suck-to-blow techniques impact on this? How big does the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) need to be to make me safe, and is there a cut-off point after we have established all the pre-infection variables?

[M P Lurker]

<cut>
Whilst I also accept that chlymadia is the most common STD, it isn't very easy to catch. <cut>
Pete
Well actually I was talking about Chlamydia Trachomatis.
It seems neither of us could spell it right.
I guess I am saying that if Chlamydia is the most common STD then it must be easier to catch than other STDs. Sounds logical?
So my "easy" is only relative to things like HIV, Hepatitus, Syphillis, etc.

A friend of mine caught Chlamydia by becoming exposed when taking the condom off after sex completion, he believes. He had no other unprotected activity. That, in my book, is relatively easy transmission.
On the other hand, Chlamydia is not so easy to catch that we actually catch it every single year. But frequent mongers will catch it sooner or later if they don't take reasonable care with hygene in relation to sexual activities.
Condoms substantially REDUCE the risk of catching Chlamydia.

Apparently an estimated 2.8 million people catch Chlamydia each year in the U.S.

I therefore understand the Zithromax self-dose mongers very easily, even though this activity is frowned upon, if used infrequently and not instead of condoms. Mongers need to be cured immediately to minimise passing on to others, especially girlfriends, wives etc. especially since could have Chlamydia for some time before being aware. Some people have no apparent symptoms it seems. A regular (at least annual) screen for STDs is advisable for Mongers.

Tick Tock, Tick Tock as Terry says.

[Diver69]

If you have had a BBBJ you have already exposed your dick to whatever bacteria/virus were in her mouth/saliva, so cleaning your dick before putting the condom will have a minimum effect.

That would be like having a copious meal, with several full fat dishes, and after that taking a white coffee with semi-skimmed milk because you want to look after your weight.

Well, I was thinking this: If you slip the rubber on with all the saliva and stuff on your dick, then all the stuff gets trapped in the rubber, which is a moist and wrm environment. The chances of getting infected then, I would think is higher than just having a bbbj? I am no medicl expert, but just a thought.

Any other opnion on this?

Diver

[Petemcc]

Driver, Mick, Terry. Sorry about my spelling. It's a fact of my life that I have become brain dead and numb over the years, and I find that I can't even spell everyday words. Mostly this is because I am severely under the influence of alcohol when I type here, so that's my excuse.

You all make good points and raise many good questions.
As I have said before, I am not an expert, but I have a background in biological sciences, have kept an interest in it, and am studying to be a nurse. I also understand medical research papers, which is a help.

Unfortunately, STDs/STIs, whatever, aren't really that well 'studied'. By that I mean lt's not like there are volunteers queuing up to get a dose for medical science. Also, because of the whole sordidness of the subject, many people are unwilling to tell the whole truth to health professionals. Unlike alcoholism, diabetes, heart disease, etc, people are willing to discuss their lifestyles etc and thus much more is known about shall we say other diseases. Most of the stuff from STDs comes from anecdotal evidence, stats, and some studies which perhaps are not as objective as they should be.'

Now, getting back to it. We have to remember that most of these infections, be they bacterial, viral, fungal, or protozoal, are not like big pools of infection, like airborn Anthrax spores, or Ebola or something. It's not like on TV where you can walk into a room with someone who has infectious chlamydia and suddenly get it- yeah, I know this is taking it a bit far, but we have to remember that these infections aren't really that 'virulent', for want of a better word.

Most probably, if you have bareback sex with someone who has an STD, you have a pretty good chance of getting it yourself, and in fact the woman is much more at risk than the man. The very nature of the mucus membranes of the vagina and anus, and the 'comparative' lack of dilution of their secretions makes them more likely harbengours of infection ( again, the spelling!).

Now to respond more directly:
Terry: Assuming you aren't 'taking the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)', I don't know. Like I said, there are few volunteers who will put themselves forward to get sucked off by a girl/man/whatever with Chlamydia to determine how long the average infection time is, and what technique works best etc. I am sure that one day I could set up a mongers' institute for STD investigation where volunteers could have their way with infectious girls and the results studied. Maybe a thought?
As for suck and blow pressure, well apart from the difficulty in measuring that, and recording it- I mean do we use Pa or mm Hg?, the problem is if the giver is blowing air, or saliva, or both?
[CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) times, well again that is dependant on your bladder. If you're well pissed and haven't had a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) for an hour, the chances are that apart from not enjoying the BBBJ and cutting it short, that you will [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) so much that the girl will go to sleep. But being serious, it's like anything, a certain number of bacteria are required to produce a full infection, diluting them down, ASAP has to reduce their numbers, but studies, again are limited. My advice is to do what you can. Let's face it, a BBBJ is a lot less hazerdous than BB intercourse, so it's going to happen, so minimise the risks. In microbiology there's no such thing as 100% kill- it uses a reverse exponential curve where the graph never reaches zero, but you can certainally reduce the risk a lot. For you personally, I'd advise you dip your wick in bleach and using your PC muscles, attempt to suck up some bleach, or get the girl to get a drinking straw, get some bleach in her mouth and blow it down your jap's eye. It may not give you a 100% kill rate, but sure as fuck, you'll not be using your dick for a while!

Mick. There are certain reasons why Chlamydia is the most common STD, and mostly that's because it is usually asymptomatic. Although the other major ones like Syph and Gon can be asympomatic, especialy in males, generally they end up showing obvious symptoms and people seek treatment. BTW, anecdotal evidence, and the word of the STD doc I saw ( I didn't have one, I just fucked someone who did) is that Hep C cannot be contracted during sex- and cannot is used in the anything is possible category. Similarly, Hep B is a faecal-oral route transmission primarily,but blood bourn, so yeah, certain practices could lead to that.
Anyway, Chlamydia, though it can have severe consequences is rather hard to self diagnose, especially in women, hence it seems more prevelant.
Again, with your friend, what people really do and what they say are different. I told my missus 99% of what I did in Pattaya, but left out the bits that would cause her apperplexy- such is human nature.

Self medication however is so, so dangerous. Why are there so many antibiotics on the market, and new synthetic ones? Why do we have MRSA?
Because people have fucked-up badly. As I said before, in microbiology there is never a 100% kill rate, one of the reasons being a rogue -let's say bacterium here- that doesn't get killed by the medication because it finds ways around the toxic effects. Correct doses are designed to make sure that there is an overwhelming amount of medication to almost ensure that whatever counter measure it has will be overcome by the shear amount of firepower delivered. Self medication, as you can see has its problems as there is no medical input. Why most people, let's say with mental illnesses fail in their medication regieme is because they think they no longer need it. Same as this. The running and stinging has stopped, so it's right! The bottle says this so I did this. Formulations and regiemes change all the time, and although Zithromax is a wonderful AB, soon, it will not be because of abuse, and bacterial resistance. Remember this, sooner or later the little bastards will find a resistance- remember, no 100% kill, and most of them have been around for a lot longer than us.
Condoms, in theory, have 100% resistance. They test these by trying to pass an electric current through them. I assure you, if an electron can't get through, nothing larger will, unless it has some microbial c4!

Driver. You have a good point, and a good deal of common sense. If her infected saliva is caught in the environment of a closed condom, some of it will make its way down your japs eye, so yeah, have a wash. Before someone is cathaterised, they are swabbed with alcohol!

Finally guys, look at Aus and regulated Singapore. Condoms are required for everything. Australia has a fantastic record with its licensed sex workers for diseases. They shower you, check your knob, make you use mouthwash, and generally make sure that they take all precautions they can. Yeah, it can be clinical, but so is playing any game. The fun starts when you get into it. If she knows she's safe, and you know you're safe, then you can have fun. If one of you has any reservations, then it's less fun.
BUT, ours is a risky sport, so take the precautions you deem necessary and take care of yourself and others!

Pete

[M P Lurker]

Mick. There are certain reasons why Chlamydia is the most common STD, and mostly that's because it is usually asymptomatic.
Pete
"usually asymptomatic" is stretching it a bit. Perhaps "sometimes" would be fairer , however its true that symptoms may not appear or be noticed for weeks.

Doctors assumed me that 2 pills was enough to cure Chlamydia because it would stay in my system for up to 2 weeks while the Chlamydia was likely to be wiped out iwithin the 2 week period. Symptoms had dissappeared after one week. I wish I had self medicated on the basis of it just might help (but not knowing what was wrong with my eye), since the doctors did not give the pills it to me for 4 weeks afetr the symptoms started in my eye. Even then it was still waiting a test to confirm Chlamydia, but medication was allowed based on the assumption that it was likely.

Presumably someone who has self medicated a few days before mongering will not see the symptoms because the bacteria will be killed off before having a chance to multiply.
They will then be less likely to give it to someone else during the normal non-symtomatic stage.

[Petemcc]

"usually asymptomatic" is stretching it a bit. Perhaps "sometimes" would be fairer , however its true that symptoms may not appear or be noticed for weeks.

Doctors assumed me that 2 pills was enough to cure Chlamydia because it would stay in my system for up to 2 weeks while the Chlamydia was likely to be wiped out iwithin the 2 week period. Symptoms had dissappeared after one week. I wish I had self medicated on the basis of it just might help (but not knowing what was wrong with my eye), since the doctors did not give the pills it to me for 4 weeks afetr the symptoms started in my eye. Even then it was still waiting a test to confirm Chlamydia, but medication was allowed based on the assumption that it was likely.

Presumably someone who has self medicated a few days before mongering will not see the symptoms because the bacteria will be killed off before having a chance to multiply.
They will then be less likely to give it to someone else during the normal non-symtomatic stage.

From what I have read, it actually is more commonly asymptomatic in men than not, but hey, why argue about a drippy dick?

The reasoning behind your self medicating regime prior to mongering would appear on the face of it to make sense, however it isn't quite that simple, unfortunately. As I said theer is never a definite 100% kill rate in microbiology, but there is usually a bloody good chance of it. I don't honestly know the pharmacokinetics of the drug, so can't comment on its use with newly established, or sub-clinical infections, so I can't say either way if what you are proposing would work. I just know that life isn't that simple.
More importantly, there's a growing trend now for QUM, Quality Use of Medicines, in a bid, amongst other things, to reduce the number of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Bacteria's ability to become resistant was somewhat accelerated by man when antibiotics became available and prescribed for conditions where they were not necessary, and where the wrong one was prescribed/used. Each time we use an antibiotic, it gives bacteria the chance to become resistant, and I don't mean the baddies that give you a drippy dick, I mean the billions of commensal bacteria in our bodies. Bacteria unfortunately have sex, as it were, and exchange DNA/RNA and thus normal bacteria that line your urethra may become Zithromax resistant from constant exposure, and pass the resistance onto teh introduced strain of drippy dick.
At the moment, Zithromax is the drug of choice, in the west at least, for STDs as a starter, because it's a relatively new drug, and its site of action is pretty specific. However I can see the time when it is no longer effective, and don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember being told once that SE Asia is the main problem for AB resistant STDs.

Anyway Mick, everyone will do what they want, no matter what I say, no matter what anyone says, but I for one do not want to come back froma mongering trip, which my good lady wife has let me go on, only to tell her that I have or may have an STD, so I will stick to condoms!
BTW, Ansell in Aus have new condoms out that are so thin that you can take a fingerprint of a finger inserted into one. Now that's thin. I'll try to test drive them sometime and let everyone know what they're like.
All the best

Pete

[Tors Ham]

need some help?

first i know its wrong to self medicate and i won’t do it if i don’t have to (hopefully never) but.

i will travel to china in the end of mars and sty there fore 2-3 month, but first a stop, 1 week in los for some fun :)

and my worst fear is ending up in inner china [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) razor blade, drippy dick or something like that.

have any one been to a hospital in inner china. well then you know what i am talking about.

if the worst scenario will happen, i have to take a translator with me and that can create some problem later.

in the last 3-4 trips to asia i had 3 condom splits 2 times super tight chinese pussis have managed to squeeze of the condom, i never refuse a bbbj, but so fare i have been lucky, never had a std.

but i’m no superman and i know that bad things can happen, even to me and it doesn’t matter how safe you try to play this game.

i would like to know what type of antibiotic that works for different std.

if someone with knowledge would pm me some suggestion for what to bye and where in bkk i can find it, i will be grateful.

[FlyingVisitor]

Why do you not go to the safer side and postpone your visit to LOL and go there after your business in inner China?

F.V.

[Henderson]

If DATY, stick a strepsil in your mouth!

[Freeman 418]

10/10 points for this post..

I agree with you that from what I've also read/studied, clamydia does seem to be much more asymptomatic (in males) that other STDs. I marval at anyone on here who can detect he has clamydia himself lol.

Can't agree more on the topic of self-medicating. This is just plain stupid, even apart from the obvious dangers to one's health (not being trained in health care to start popping pills), there's many other factors- antibiotics are not vitamin pills, they literally bomb your entire system ridding it completely of both helpful and non-helpful bacterias. Regular users have also reported lowered immune systems, loose bowels and all sorts of side-effects. Third, exactly as you say, the antibiotics are then flushed into the environment (p1ssed down toilets, into sinks wherever), and within a few years become less and less potent. This has happened so many times, with wide spectrum antibiotics, and creams such as Canasten etc., which are all ineffective now.



From what I have read, it actually is more commonly asymptomatic in men than not, but hey, why argue about a drippy dick?

The reasoning behind your self medicating regime prior to mongering would appear on the face of it to make sense, however it isn't quite that simple, unfortunately. As I said theer is never a definite 100% kill rate in microbiology, but there is usually a bloody good chance of it. I don't honestly know the pharmacokinetics of the drug, so can't comment on its use with newly established, or sub-clinical infections, so I can't say either way if what you are proposing would work. I just know that life isn't that simple.
More importantly, there's a growing trend now for QUM, Quality Use of Medicines, in a bid, amongst other things, to reduce the number of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Bacteria's ability to become resistant was somewhat accelerated by man when antibiotics became available and prescribed for conditions where they were not necessary, and where the wrong one was prescribed/used. Each time we use an antibiotic, it gives bacteria the chance to become resistant, and I don't mean the baddies that give you a drippy dick, I mean the billions of commensal bacteria in our bodies. Bacteria unfortunately have sex, as it were, and exchange DNA/RNA and thus normal bacteria that line your urethra may become Zithromax resistant from constant exposure, and pass the resistance onto teh introduced strain of drippy dick.
At the moment, Zithromax is the drug of choice, in the west at least, for STDs as a starter, because it's a relatively new drug, and its site of action is pretty specific. However I can see the time when it is no longer effective, and don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember being told once that SE Asia is the main problem for AB resistant STDs.

Anyway Mick, everyone will do what they want, no matter what I say, no matter what anyone says, but I for one do not want to come back froma mongering trip, which my good lady wife has let me go on, only to tell her that I have or may have an STD, so I will stick to condoms!
BTW, Ansell in Aus have new condoms out that are so thin that you can take a fingerprint of a finger inserted into one. Now that's thin. I'll try to test drive them sometime and let everyone know what they're like.
All the best

Pete

[Opebo]

What do you fellows suggest, that we simply not treat the ailment? We might as well use the antibiotics while they are effective.

As for the supposition that a 'layman' cannot adequately inform himself of the various characteristics of something as simple as an antibiotic, and should feel compelled to seek the advice of the shamen, well, pshaw.

[Petemcc]

What do you fellows suggest, that we simply not treat the ailment? We might as well use the antibiotics while they are effective.

As for the supposition that a 'layman' cannot adequately inform himself of the various characteristics of something as simple as an antibiotic, and should feel compelled to seek the advice of the shamen, well, pshaw.
Opebo. This is not the fight club, so I'll be polite. I have no idea what country you come from( though I can guess), nor indeed which planet sometimes, but most civilised countries have legislation concerning drugs. Usually they folow a 'schedule'. Certain drugs are deemed safe enough for any moron to use without much advice or supervision, some require a pharmacist only to supply them, and some require a doctor. For the lower down the scale drugs like antibiotics, doctors prescribe because there are inherant risks of non-compliance with the required regieme, and of adverse effects/inactivation of the drug by other drugs or remedies. Doctors get pretty frequent updates on how drugs are going in the general population, and they do after all spend the best part of 5 years studying the body not just in detail, but understanding the interaction of various body systems, shall we say a holistic view.

As I have stated before, there are reasons why many organisms are resistant to for example antibiotics. That is because of impropper use by professionals and amateurs alike, and these days there is a push for a more considered approach right drug, right dose, right method of delivery, etc.
Whatever you may read on the internet is probably out of date or the opinion of one group of people, or one person, with a vested interest, or a big ego.

Without doing microbial plates, or a DNA test, you cannot be sure just what infection you have. Please accept that. That's what growing cultures, Gram staining, DNA testing, antibody reactions and more is all about.

Many strains of syphillis, and quite a few of gonnorhoea have acquired antibiotic resistance, and- well I didn't want to go into all this shit but...
Ok, there are what is called sub-clinical infections. You may have a pathogen actively living in you, but it is kept in control just about enough by your natural flora ( which hopefully you haven't killed off) and your immune system, oh, and by your mucosa. There is at least 3 ways as far as I can remember how bacteria can exchange genetic information, and a self dosage of AB can kill maybe 99.9% of bacteria, but maybe that .1% that has mutated when multiplying, or has exchanged genetic information with your normal flora which have become resistant to that AB, lives. Its 'progeny' may not have the complete ability to overcome your body's systems and give you the full-blown symptoms, but they could still be lurking, with you probably being infectious, and being in for a rude shock when yo get your next dose, because sure as fuck, they'll pass their information on.

When you go to a doctor/pox clinic, they take samples and the microbiologists will decide what strain of what pathogen you have. Sure, the doc will give you a large dose, fairly broad spectrum AB, but you will be advised that you could be infectious until they know exactly what you have, treat it accordingly, and get re-tested. Simple, eh?

Tell you what. If you're so good at self medicating, hows about if you suffer from a bit of cardiac failure, grab yorself some Foxglove leaves ( look for Digoxin and Digitalis when you do your search) and see how well you self medicate on them!

I could go on and on, but I was accused on another thread of giving a lesson, so I'll stop here.
Finally, and don't get me wrong, I know and understand the arrogance of the medical profession, but it's like this. Electricians do the wiring, plumbers do the pipes, mechanics do the car, accountants do the taxes, doctors sort the diseases.
Live long and prosper.
Pete

[Bumholes1]

Looking at 161 girls and saw this.....

$400(全套Combo)
$500(全套Combo+舒服保健)

What does it mean?

Thanks!!!全套 = full service

Combo = the assorted knick knacks that come with full service

舒服保健 = some kind of comfortable health promoting service

[Member #2041]

Petemcc, it's well meaning, I'm sure, but really not worth the bandwidth. I suggest that we just let Darwin sort it out with Opebo.

[Petemcc]

Petemcc, it's well meaning, I'm sure, but really not worth the bandwidth. I suggest that we just let Darwin sort it out with Opebo.

Point taken, I just despise arrogant ignorant cunts.

[Opebo]

Dear Policeman Pete,
Thank you for the extensive post. I would only like to comment on your inclusion of 'microbiologist' in the team that would, hypothetically (in an ideal world), be attending my urethra.

I can assure you that in Thailand what passes for a medical professional is one busy, money hungry chap, who would normally not even examine the weeping weenie, but simply prescribe some more or less standard course of antibiotics for both gonhorrea and clamydia.

[HarryR]

to a guy who has drug resistant gonhorrea and is leaking like a seive but insists in having BB sex with working girls and he wont have it any other way?

Seems strange to me.

[Opebo]

to a guy who has drug resistant gonhorrea and is leaking like a seive but insists in having BB sex with working girls and he wont have it any other way?

Seems strange to me.

Dear HarryR - firstly, thanks for your wonderful photographs in the New Zealand forum. But I do hope that you are not implying that I am the unfortunate described in your post above. While I seem to pick up the clap anywhere from once a year to once a month, it always responds immediately to treatment.

Last time to add variety I used amoxicillin with clavulanic acid (five 625 mg tablets) rather than azithromycin or the shot. It worked fine but gave me a stomach ache for a good 3 hours. I still recommend the shot, or if it is inconvenient to go to the clinic, Zithromax.

[BuleDaddy]

to a guy who has drug resistant gonhorrea and is leaking like a seive but insists in having BB sex with working girls and he wont have it any other way?

Seems strange to me.

Non Specific Drip. Common in Vietnam when soldiers would get it over and over and 'cillan's and sulfides no longer worked. There was stuff you'd catch that they didn't have a name for. Now the FDA approved the use of the "last defense" antibiotic in cattle. google it

"FDA poised to approve cattle antibiotic despite warnings

Health & Fitness – The government is on track to approve a new antibiotic to treat a pneumonia-like disease in cattle, despite warnings from health groups and a majority of the agency's own expert advisers that the decision will be dangerous - for people."

Dangerous because that antiboitic they are talking about was reserved for when nothing else worked. All it will do is create super microbes as it is passed down the food chain.

This was the same agency that tried and tried to promote Thalidamide, the morning sickness pill that caused the 6" arms birth defect. It was ONE lone lady at the FDA that resisted is so much that it was never sold here.

At the end of WWII there was no latex for rubber making, and no condums.. You could get sweet Italian girls for a bag of groceries from the commisary, or a teenage Jap girl for a candybar. There are still a few old-timers in the PI that can tell you what a cake walk it was being in the occupataional forces after WWII. The girls often had clap or syph. The famous Italian bike racer Coppi died of syph he picked way back then. With no Penicillan or injectible sulfides you drove around and looked for a blue light and that was where you got your proplylactic kit if you were a GI. It was a syringe w/no needle. and you poured a sulfide solution in it the syringe and squirted it in the one eye of your trouser schnauser until you felt the solution up up in your bladder. My uncle told me the first time it was the most unpleasant feeling, but you suddenly knew you weren't going to get the clap so that horrible feeling was a sort of relief.

In WWI they'd paint your dick with Iodine when you came out of the French Brothels. The STD was well up in the urethra and this did little or no good. Syph was like an HIV back then where the "cure" was rubbing mercury in the palm of your hand. It prolonged you life, but you'd get poisened by the mercury. The old saying was "One night with Venus gets you a lifetime with Mercury".

[River]

If DATY, stick a strepsil in your mouth!This will not prevent you form getting std.

But sure helpful if you do not like the smell of girl private part.

[M P Lurker]

need some help?

first i know its wrong to self medicate and i won’t do it if i don’t have to (hopefully never) but.

i will travel to china in the end of mars and sty there fore 2-3 month, but first a stop, 1 week in los for some fun :)

and my worst fear is ending up in inner china [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) razor blade, drippy dick or something like that.

have any one been to a hospital in inner china. well then you know what i am talking about.

if the worst scenario will happen, i have to take a translator with me and that can create some problem later.

in the last 3-4 trips to asia i had 3 condom splits 2 times super tight chinese pussis have managed to squeeze of the condom, i never refuse a bbbj, but so fare i have been lucky, never had a std.

but i’m no superman and i know that bad things can happen, even to me and it doesn’t matter how safe you try to play this game.

i would like to know what type of antibiotic that works for different std.

if someone with knowledge would pm me some suggestion for what to bye and where in bkk i can find it, i will be grateful.

tors ham,

you worry too much. you haven't caught anything yet because you are taking precautions.
further precautions:
1. make sure girls has no rough sponge inside her pussy. this can abrade and break the condom.
2. throughly wash hands after fingers go in her pussy before putting fingers near your mouth or eyes (i caught clamydia in the eye).
3. don't go with girls willing to do bareback sex (bbbj is far less risky but not 100% safe).
4. keep some zithromax as backup in case something goes wrong, but see a doctor anyway for proper testing if anything goes wrong.
5. lube is needed with condoms. if not, tight pussy can easily pull off condom as you mentioned.

[Traveler1234]

Tors Ham,

You worry too much. You haven't caught anything yet because you are taking precautions.
Further precautions:
1. Make sure girls has no rough sponge inside her pussy. This can abrade and break the condom.
2. Throughly wash hands after fingers go in her pussy before putting fingers near your mouth or eyes (I caught Clamydia in the eye).
3. Don't go with girls willing to do bareback sex (BBBJ is far less risky but not 100% safe).
4. Keep some Zithromax as backup in case something goes wrong, but see a doctor anyway for proper testing if anything goes wrong.
5. Lube is needed with condoms. If not, tight pussy can easily pull off condom as you mentioned.


And bring listerine to rinse before and after bbbjcim, it really works :)

[Henderson]

This will not prevent you form getting std.

But sure helpful if you do not like the smell of girl private part.

If DATY, stick a strepsil in your mouth!
I wasn't suggesting that Strepsils could prevent STDs but they do seem to help prevent sore throats that may be caused by bacteria in pussies when DATY.

I’ve never had a sore throat from DATY in the UK but kept getting one with a very clean regular girl in the PI. I remembered someone on another forum recommending Strepsils for this exact problem and when I did it with a Strepsil in my mouth, no sore throat.

[River]

I wasn't suggesting that Strepsils could prevent STDs but they do seem to help prevent sore throats that may be caused by bacteria in pussies when DATY.

I’ve never had a sore throat from DATY in the UK but kept getting one with a very clean regular girl in the PI. I remembered someone on another forum recommending Strepsils for this exact problem and when I did it with a Strepsil in my mouth, no sore throat.Sure you might be right that strepsils may able to reduce the chance of soretrhoat as it contains some antiseptics.

But then resistant strains bacteria can develop and even antibiotics are not effective. Some of these are the cause of sorethroat after DATY.

I think precations are required, such as make sure no sore/ ulcer/ cut /bleeding/ infection in the mouth and girl's private part b4 and during DATY. See that the girl's private part is clean and no foul smelling discharge.

Practise safe sex.

[River]

Tors Ham,

You worry too much. You haven't caught anything yet because you are taking precautions.

Further precautions:

1. Make sure girls has no rough sponge inside her pussy. This can abrade and break the condom.

2. Throughly wash hands after fingers go in her pussy before putting fingers near your mouth or eyes (I caught Clamydia in the eye).

3. Don't go with girls willing to do bareback sex (BBBJ is far less risky but not 100% safe).

4. Keep some Zithromax as backup in case something goes wrong, but see a doctor anyway for proper testing if anything goes wrong.

5. Lube is needed with condoms. If not, tight pussy can easily pull off condom as you mentioned.Mick Licker,

Do you know have good is a condom in preventing STD/AIDs when used properly? Almost 100% ?

[M P Lurker]

Mick Licker,

Do you know have good is a condom in preventing STD/AIDs when used properly? Almost 100% ?
Yes, of course I know that. Not sure why you would ask such a basic question???

However even the greatest condoms are not abrasion proof and slip off proof. So the safety of a good condom is unfortuantely only 99.9% or so.
Hence I mentioned other precautions.

The best condom in the world did not prevent me from catching Clamydia in my left eye from finger transference.

[NicFrenchy]

The best condom in the world did not prevent me from catching Clamydia in my left eye from finger transference.Hahahahahahaha... I caught the same a few months back. It's the pink-eye, highly contagious, caused sometimes by Ghonorrea and Chlamydia:
http://www.ecureme.com/emyhealth/Pediatrics/Pink_Eye.asp

[NicFrenchy]

Do you know have good is a condom in preventing STD/AIDs when used properly? Almost 100% ?I am not a doctor, but, when used properly I think nearly all condoms are safe. But this is hardly a question to ask in a porn forum (unless you're ready to get a non reliable answer).

If you really want to know more about STD's or protection, there are plenty of Furums that cover that, and some have Real doctors ;)

Good luck

[Freeman 418]

Sure, condoms are safe.. but how many times have you had them break, or slip off?? I've had more than 5-10 breakages over the years, and only recently while being humped by a quite dirty bar-rat, the rubber slipped off.. so it's a bit of luck as well.

Play safe, but know that nothing is 100% safe.


I am not a doctor, but, when used properly I think nearly all condoms are safe. But this is hardly a question to ask in a porn forum (unless you're ready to get a non reliable answer).

If you really want to know more about STD's or protection, there are plenty of Furums that cover that, and some have Real doctors ;)

Good luck

[Meaty]

Drinking green tea could help in the fight against HIV, research suggests.
Scientists found a component called epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) prevents HIV from binding to immune system cells by getting there first.

Once EGCG has bound to immune system cells there is no room for HIV to take hold in its usual fashion.

However, experts said the joint UK and US work, which appears in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, was at a very preliminary stage.


We suggest that it should be used in combination with conventional medicines to improve quality of life for those infected
Professor Mike Williamson
University of Sheffield

Researcher Professor Mike Williamson, of the University of Sheffield, said: "Our research shows that drinking green tea could reduce the risk of becoming infected by HIV, and could also slow down the spread of HIV.

"It is not a cure, and nor is it a safe way to avoid infection, however, we suggest that it should be used in combination with conventional medicines to improve quality of life for those infected.

"Future research is also currently under way in order to determine how much effect can be expected from different amounts of tea."

More work needed

Keith Alcorn, senior editor of the Aidsmap web service, said tests on animals would be needed before any conclusions could be safely drawn on the potential protective effect of drinking green tea.

"This study only looks at the ability of a chemical in green tea to block HIV binding to human CD4 immune cells in the test tube.

"Many substances shown to prevent HIV infection in the test tube turn out to have little or no effect in real life, so I think there's a long way to go before anyone should rely on green tea to protect against HIV infection."

Lisa Power, head of policy at the HIV charity, Terrence Higgins Trust said: "Condoms keep HIV at bay. Anything that boosts your immune system is beneficial for people with HIV, but green tea can't be a substitute for proper medication and prevention techniques."

Green tea has been linked to a positive effect on a wide range of conditions, including heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/6502399.stm

Published: 2007/03/29 00:36:16 GMT

[Opebo]

I have a safe sex related question which involves the use of Thai language:

I have a regular down at the upcountry brothel I see maybe once a week, who alas now has the clap (either gonorrhea or clamydia or both), I believe due to previous visits I made to her just after returning from Pattaya, land of clap. Now I have cured myself of those ailments, but have found that I have been reinfected by this woman on subequent visits. She is of course like most women apparently asymptomatic.

Therefore, I need to approach her with a nice new unopened box of Zithromax, and persuade her to take it, but alas she speaks not a word of English. Can someone relate in simple Thai this basic story:

"Last time I saw you I got a little drip, and went to the doctor. He gave me this (Zithromax), and when I took it I was all better. So, can you please take this {pointing to Zithromax} so we can keep seeing each other?"

I realize the best method of persuasion is a nice tip, but I want to be able to communicate to assuage any fears she may have that I'm a mad poisoner - we farangs are known for being psychos.

[Daddy07]

Therefore, I need to approach her with a nice new unopened box of Zithromax, and persuade her to take it, but alas she speaks not a word of English.

If you care about this girl, Opebo, just take her to a Dr. and let him explain the situation to her in Thai. If the Dr. prescribes Zithromax, you'll already have it to give to her.

Good luck,
Daddy

[Opebo]

If you care about this girl, Opebo, just take her to a Dr. and let him explain the situation to her in Thai. If the Dr. prescribes Zithromax, you'll already have it to give to her.

Good luck,
Daddy

Thank you, Father, for your kind advice, but unfortunately in Thailand being seen about during the day with a prostitute is a faux pas, particularly for any purpose other than the obvious one.

[Freeman 418]

Have to agree with Daddy's advice on this one.. unless you're an MD or GP, why even bother trying to guess what she has (since you admitted she probably has multiple infections) and then try to get her to take meds? Also the responsibility you're taking on.. You have 3 options: 1) Take her to a doctor personally, 2) Ensure she goes herself to the Dr. 3) Dump her and say bye.

I'm not a dentist, so I dont try fixing people's teeth myself..



Thank you, Father, for your kind advice, but unfortunately in Thailand being seen about during the day with a prostitute is a faux pas, particularly for any purpose other than the obvious one.

[Opebo]

Have to agree with Daddy's advice on this one.. unless you're an MD or GP, why even bother trying to guess what she has (since you admitted she probably has multiple infections) and then try to get her to take meds? Also the responsibility you're taking on.. You have 3 options: 1) Take her to a doctor personally, 2) Ensure she goes herself to the Dr. 3) Dump her and say bye.

I'm not a dentist, so I dont try fixing people's teeth myself..

1 g Zithromax is one of the top one or two recommended treatments, Freeman, for both clamydia and gonhorrea. There is absolutely no point going to a doctor, and since that errand is impossible anyway, I would ask that you confine yourself to the question I asked - how to communicate with her.

Please, people, your obsession with the medical profession is not helpful. True, in lands where they, through political influence, have gained a monopoly on the dispensing of simple drugs - such as Zithromax - we have no choice but to pay them their tithe. But happily such is not the case in Thailand.

So I reiterate, how may I say, roughly, in simple Thai:

"Last time I saw you I got a little drip, and went to the doctor. He gave me this {holding up nice unopened box of Zithromax}, and when I took it I was all better. So, can you please take this {pointing to Zithromax} so we can keep seeing each other?"

[Petemcc]

1 g Zithromax is one of the top one or two recommended treatments, Freeman, for both clamydia and gonhorrea. There is absolutely no point going to a doctor, and since that errand is impossible anyway, I would ask that you confine yourself to the question I asked - how to communicate with her.

Please, people, your obsession with the medical profession is not helpful. True, in lands where they, through political influence, have gained a monopoly on the dispensing of simple drugs - such as Zithromax - we have no choice but to pay them their tithe. But happily such is not the case in Thailand.

So I reiterate, how may I say, roughly, in simple Thai:

"Last time I saw you I got a little drip, and went to the doctor. He gave me this {holding up nice unopened box of Zithromax}, and when I took it I was all better. So, can you please take this {pointing to Zithromax} so we can keep seeing each other?"

Opebo

I try very hard not to get wound up by your posts, but for the record you are a stupid ****. There's fuck all point explaining any aspect of science to you because you'll just come back with some stupid shite based upon anecdotes. My only worry is that other people may take what you say as being partly correct, and I address this reply mostly to them.
Look at the history of antibiotics since the late 40s, look at MRSA, do some reasearch and then be as blazee as Opebo, the man who knows everything about sexually transmitted diseases and their treatments.

[Piper1]

1 g Zithromax is one of the top one or two recommended treatments, for both clamydia and gonhorrea. You may also have syphilis - you're increasingly displaying what may be one of the tertiary symptoms. And let's face it, you're a prime candidate.

If you have syphilis (and it's not advanced) you would need at least a 2g single dose of Zithromax, not 1g. Maybe it's time for a blood test - it's the only way to rule out syphilis (and a few other STDs) conclusively.

[The Traveler]

...be as blazee as Opebo, the man who knows everything about sexually transmitted diseases and their treatments.

...because he got them all :(

[Bumholes1]

Zithromax is a very powerful antibiotic and is one that is recommended and prescribed by Doctors for the clap. However, it does not come cheaply. An equally efficient alternative is NORFLOXACIN 400mg (1 tablet about 4bt), which does the job just as well, and is also prescribed by Doctors. The dose is 2 x 400mg tablets, 1 time, before food, washed down with a glass of water.

Knowing that one has the clap, and also knowing that a doctor in Thailand (especially in Pattaya or Bangkok) will likely charge a minimum of 800bt for providing 2 Norfloxacin tablets, is it not infinitely more sensible to pop down to the pharmacy and make your own purchase?

So far as wanting the local brothel **** to take tablets to cure the disease Opebo believes she has, I would not do this. It's Ok to diagnose ones own diseases, but not Ok to diagnose and treat anyone elses!

[Soi Song]

Firstly, if you put it in use a condom! There are also someting called a finger cot which is like a finger rubber if you are goin to digitize any part of their body. After messing with a BG wash your hands and what ever came in contact condom or no condom. The bloke with Gono/Pink Eye got a bad thingo. It is as bad in the eye as on the wand!

As to the gent who goes to Up county lady houses. Dude, you are just plain nuts. I would guess that alot of shite we are exposed to come from the boyfriend of the girl we are with and he got it from a 200 Baht thai hooker!

I'm careful, never put my mouth south of the boarders and always use a condom. I she wants a lgood butt fingering. Put on condom over you fingers for that one also. I've done more that 100 girls and probaly gone a well over 400 times and have nothing. Never, not even a case of crabs. Careful I am.

And, I'm not sure was up with some of this talk about cures. If I had someting I would change Doc's untill I got a nice big shot in the butt! Massive amount of drugs in the butt muscle and off I go. I've know so many guys that have gotton a dirty jump and they always get the big shot in the rear and can go back into action in 2 or 3 days. Shite, there is a MD from L. A. Who is a big time punter that carries a points and a bottle of pennicillen (sp) and has shot himself.

[M P Lurker]

Zithromax is a very powerful antibiotic and is one that is recommended and prescribed by Doctors for the clap. However, it does not come cheaply. An equally efficient alternative is NORFLOXACIN 400mg (1 tablet about 4bt), which does the job just as well, and is also prescribed by Doctors. The dose is 2 x 400mg tablets, 1 time, before food, washed down with a glass of water.

Knowing that one has the clap, and also knowing that a doctor in Thailand (especially in Pattaya or Bangkok) will likely charge a minimum of 800bt for providing 2 Norfloxacin tablets, is it not infinitely more sensible to pop down to the pharmacy and make your own purchase?

So far as wanting the local brothel **** to take tablets to cure the disease Opebo believes she has, I would not do this. It's Ok to diagnose ones own diseases, but not Ok to diagnose and treat anyone elses!
I'm not sure that expense is a big issue when it comes to important issues like the clap but there are cheaper brands of Azithromycin as well, e.g Binozyt. Price is very low in comparison to mongering cost.
But I can't comment on best treatments as am not a doctor.

[Opebo]

Thank you Bumholes for your common sense and useful information. Alas I am allergic to the Cipro-Norfloxacin family.


Firstly, if you put it in use a condom!

No. To stay at home abstaining and masturbating would be more fun than that, SS.


As to the gent who goes to Up county lady houses. Dude, you are just plain nuts. I would guess that alot of shite we are exposed to come from the boyfriend of the girl we are with and he got it from a 200 Baht thai hooker!

Actually, the girls who cater to farang are far more apt to go bareback than these in the Thai-oriented industry. A majority of farang visitors prefer bareback sex, while most Thais use condoms.


And, I'm not sure was up with some of this talk about cures. If I had someting I would change Doc's untill I got a nice big shot in the butt! Massive amount of drugs in the butt muscle and off I go. I've know so many guys that have gotton a dirty jump and they always get the big shot in the rear and can go back into action in 2 or 3 days.

Yes, we all know about cefixime, it is just very inconvenient to go to the doctor everytime for this shot. Much easier to take antibiotics orally, and they work just as well.


I'm not sure that expense is a big issue when it comes to important issues like the clap but there are cheaper brands of Azithromycin as well, e.g Binozyt. Price is very low in comparison to mongering cost.
But I can't comment on best treatments as am not a doctor.

Mick Licker, the price of one box of five 250 miligram tablets of Zithromax is about 560 baht (of course one only takes four, a 1g dose. - not unlike the oft-malented missmatch between the quantity of hotdogs and buns). I rarely pay that much for sex, so Zithromax is more expensive than the act which occasions its use. But thanks so much for the tip about 'Binozyt'! How much does that run, in your experience?

Alas, in spite of many replies I still do not know how to communicate my exhortation to the lady in question.

[Rubber Nursey]

Opebo, I think you're just scared that if she goes to a doctor, she will find out HOW she got an infection and refuse to have bareback sex with you any more.

Medicating her without a professional diagnosis would be totally irresponsible. She needs a full STI check, 'coz she could have any number of additional infections on top of the clap. She also obviously needs some sexual health education - you can't just tell her that she has an infection and give her antibiotics and risk her not understanding HOW she caught it or how to protect herself from it in the future. If she got it from her boyfriend or from another regular client, she's just gonna end up re-infected anyway, unless those people are also made aware of the infection. She needs the full story, which she will not get from you just throwing her a packet of pills.

As for how to convey all this to the girl, go to www.empowerfoundation.org and email the contact number at the bottom of the page. The people at the other end speak fluent English. Describe the scenario to them and ask them how to say what you need to say to the girl. They will also be able to provide you with details of free clinics, etc.

Don't take advantage of this girl's vulnerability and put her health at risk for your own selfish reasons. Talk to Empower and get her to a doctor.

[Opebo]

opebo, i think you're just scared that if she goes to a doctor, she will find out how she got an infection and refuse to have bareback sex with you any more.

i thank you for your efforts, rubber, though they are of no help in answering the question i posed. i would just like to state, however, that it is somewhat offensive and condescending that you would assume this woman is ignorant of how one gets a minor infection in the [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)-hole.

perhaps, to be fair, you have an inaccurate mental picture - the woman is pushing 30, is free to come and go from the brothel at will (being a full thai citizen with id and everything). like all thais, she has had an earful of 'safe sex' propaganda from birth, as well as a basic education in 'science'. her choice to provide bareback was an informed one, and quite reasonable - the risks are low or minor, and there is really no other way to get an overpaying regular.

[Rubber Nursey]

my first sentence was sarcasm. the rest of the post was in no way intended to be condescending or offensive to the girl in question. she can choose to do whatever she wants with her body, so long as the choice is an informed one.

i'm not suggesting this woman is 'ignorant' at all - just that perhaps she's not quite as 'informed' as you claim she is. in the time that it took you to develop symptoms, cure the clap, catch it from her again, develop symptoms and cure it again, it seems she has not even discovered that she has an infection. to me, this either says she is not undergoing regular sti tests and/or has sought and received treatment but is ill-informed on the matter of re-infection. (perhaps another client just handed her a packet of antibiotics and told her that would fix everything?)

and unlike most of the other posters, i did try to answer the question you posed. empower would be more than happy to help you with your translation and assist this woman to access treatment.

ps. chlamydia is not a 'minor infection of the [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)-hole'. in women, untreated chlamydia can cause anything from period problems to pelvic inflammatory disease - which can cause severe pain and bleeding, ectopic pregnancy, infertility and, in rare cases, death. not so minor at all.

[Opebo]

In the time that it took you to develop symptoms, cure the clap, catch it from her again, develop symptoms and cure it again, it seems she has not even discovered that she has an infection.

The asymptomatic nature of this infection in women is famous, Rubber, and is perhaps the main reason for its spread.

[Rubber Nursey]

The asymptomatic nature of this infection in women is famous, Rubber, and is perhaps the main reason for its spread.

A large majority of STIs are asymptomatic in women. That's why the only way for women to be sure of their status is to have regular STI testing. But regular testing, and treatment when infected, means nothing if she keeps going back to the original source of her infection.

In my opinion, one of the main reasons for the spread of STIs is people's inability, or unwillingness, to disclose their STI status to others they may have already infected. You said you've caught the infection from this woman twice now - did you have unprotected sex with any other sex workers in that time? Did you go back and tell those girls they may be at risk, once you found out? How many clients did those other workers have after you, who then went out and infected other sex workers...or took it back to their wives and girlfriends (who then went and infected the milkman ;))?

Don't take this as a personal attack at all - I'm just using your situation as an example of how infections multiply exponentially. Giving this girl antibiotics that may or may not treat an infection that she may or may not have, will not help anyone. She needs to know exactly what she has and be treated by a doctor and then she needs to isolate the source of her infection to prevent re-infection, otherwise she's just gonna be on an endless STI merry-go-round...and infect countless other clients and sex workers in the process.

[Freeman 418]

Opebo,
If you and the girl(s) you're doing want to go bareback, and are also infected, why are you bothering to post here in the "Safe Sex in Thailand" forum, and ask for information?? I don't see the point really??
So far you've knocked back every form of useful advice below, anyhow. What kind of answer are you seeking?? You want a Thai translation?? Go to a language website.. there's plently around.

I think the best thing would be to just let natural attrition / evolution of the human race replace people, with the same philosophy as yourself, who are intent on harming themselves and others with intentional unsafe sex and then infection of others.

Just do what you want (which you are in any case), and let nature take care of the rest.



Thank you Bumholes for your common sense and useful information. Alas I am allergic to the Cipro-Norfloxacin family.
>>Firstly, if you put it in use a condom!
No. To stay at home abstaining and masturbating would be more fun than that, SS.

Actually, the girls who cater to farang are far more apt to go bareback than these in the Thai-oriented industry. A majority of farang visitors prefer bareback sex, while most Thais use condoms.

[NicFrenchy]

Actually, the girls who cater to farang are far more apt to go bareback than these in the Thai-oriented industry. A majority of farang visitors prefer bareback sex, while most Thais use condoms. Opebo,

I am not going to sit there and badger you with "Bareback this and Bareback that", this is your life and you are i guess adult enough to understand the consequenses of your actions.

the thing I do not agree with is your above comment. The Girls who cater to Farang, ALL have Thai Boyfriends... and, trust me, the Thai Boyfriends do not wear condoms. Yes, when Thais visit a "Brothel", they might wear protection, but slim to none are the chances of them wearing a rubber when with their girlfriends.

[Freeman 418]

Exactly. I have a number of Chinese & Azn guy friends in my home city.. they hate wearing condoms on the best of occasions (in brothels) let alone with GFs. Yes they go over the top with showers, saunas, and other "hygiene" habits, but condoms- no (Just like the girls will all use tonnes of Listerine gargle in the hopes that it somehow stops STDs lol.

The Thais I know here (or in LOS) don't seem too enthusiastic to wear condoms either. A Thai wearing a cover with his GF is plain laughable.. and did you ever meet a bargirl who aimed at farangs, and who didn't have a Thai BF or Thai waster on the receiving end somewhere??



Opebo,

I am not going to sit there and badger you with "Bareback this and Bareback that", this is your life and you are i guess adult enough to understand the consequenses of your actions.

the thing I do not agree with is your above comment. The Girls who cater to Farang, ALL have Thai Boyfriends... and, trust me, the Thai Boyfriends do not wear condoms. Yes, when Thais visit a "Brothel", they might wear protection, but slim to none are the chances of them wearing a rubber when with their girlfriends.

[Rubber Nursey]

Message deleted by author.
Note to self: Do not feed the trolls.

[Petemcc]

I hope it is not I to whom you are referring, Rubber Nursey. ?"

Opebo. I dislike you a lot, and I never cease to be amazed with the shite you write. You pretend that you have a huge grasp of the English language.
Well mate, if you knew anything about English you would realise that the sentence should have read '... not me to whom you are referring...'.

You are the object of the sentence, therefore the accusative case 'me' is correct. 'I' is only used when there is an understood qualification. I'll not bother explaining it to you because you'll just come back with some inane comment, because you are always right, but check it out if you don't believe me.

Just to make you feel better, OTH recently used 'etc, etc'. This again is a common mistake as etc means and so on and it is superflous in English to use it more than once.

Then you see, I may only be a a dumb ex-policeman, but my education was excellent,and I have subsequently achieved further qualifications, including a diploma from the Australian College of Journalism.

If you're going to play with the English language and pretend you are some literary giant, get the basics right. Just like your knowledge of sexually transmitted diseases and microbiology, get the basics right.
BTW, you will probably find typos in this, but that's down to my fingers, not my brain.

And in fact in all honesty, after reading the sentence it should say ... not me to whom you refer.. !

[Old Thai Hand]

Just to make you feel better, OTH recently used 'etc, etc'. This again is a common mistake as etc means and so on and it is superflous in English to use it more than once.

If I am nothing else, I too am superfluous, and so on, and so on...and so on, after that. ;)

[1Ball]

Yadda yadda yadda

[Rubber Nursey]

No, I wasn't referring to you, Opebo. I posted a message in anger and haste, regretted it and deleted it - apparently not soon enough, though.

Please contact Empower for your translation. There is nobody better suited to assist you.

[Bumholes1]

I think you fail to understand only one aspect of my tale - in small towns there are few options in terms of hookers, so you have little choice but to go traveling or return to the same girls.



I have been following this thread over recent days, and since Mr Opebo and I have a couple of things in common, I thought I would offer some moral support.

I too live out in the sticks, and when wishing to monger have to avail myself of what is in the locality. Usually not a lot!. They are either old, fat or ugly, and many times a combination of all 3. When I find a girl who is a cut above the others, and provides not only a good service, but is prepared to adapt to my peccadillos, then naturally I would wish to see her again. Not only does a good rapport develop between us, but both she and I look forward to our future get togethers. She continues to provide good service +, and would be a fool not too. I get to teach her new techniques.

Most mongers submitting to this and other forums have the advantage of living in or near the main mongering grounds of Bangkok, Pattaya or Phuket, and have such a large variety of girls available to them, that they have no need to concern themselves with the girls continuing good health. Fuck them once and move on to the next attractive one.

So I have much sympathy for Mr Opebo with his current dilemma. Naturally he wishes to see his regular girl restored to full health, so that he can continue his liaison with her without health problems to himself. However, as other contributors have mentioned, whilst a dose of Zithromax will in all probability cure her current predicament, she may very well be re-infected should she have sex again with the man who originally infected her, be it punter or boyfriend. Mr Opebo needs more than just a translation of how and why she should take the Zithromax. He needs somehow to instill in her not only the need to practice safe sex, but the reasons why, even if he is able to persuade her that she may continue to provide him and him alone with unprotected sex.

Of course, should Mr Opebo live anywhere near me, then it is conceivable that we occasionally share the same lass, and the modification of safe sex referred to above should be equally extended to Bumholes!

[Piper1]

I hope it is not I to whom you are referring, Rubber Nursey. By the process of elimination, dear Opebo, RN probably was referring to you.

As for your translation request, a non-troll would ask only once. After being ignored by sensible members, a non-troll would soon get the message and desist. A troll would persist by repeating the request several times.

I still think you need to get checked for syphilis. Blood test will do it nicely. Nothing to be afraid of, surely.

[Giotto]

By the process of elimination, dear Opebo, RN probably was referring to you. ...
Piper1,

I am actually surprised that somebody replied to Opebo's request. It is so ridiculous - and dangerously ignorant.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." (Martin Luther King Jr.)


Giotto

[Piper1]

Piper1,

I am actually surprised that somebody replied to Opebo's request.You know me - always willing to help. :D

[Johnson994]

I have a safe sex related question which involves the use of Thai language:

I have a regular down at the upcountry brothel I see maybe once a week, who alas now has the clap (either gonorrhea or clamydia or both), I believe due to previous visits I made to her just after returning from Pattaya, land of clap. Now I have cured myself of those ailments, but have found that I have been reinfected by this woman on subequent visits. She is of course like most women apparently asymptomatic.

Therefore, I need to approach her with a nice new unopened box of Zithromax, and persuade her to take it, but alas she speaks not a word of English. Can someone relate in simple Thai this basic story:

"Last time I saw you I got a little drip, and went to the doctor. He gave me this (Zithromax), and when I took it I was all better. So, can you please take this {pointing to Zithromax} so we can keep seeing each other?"

I realize the best method of persuasion is a nice tip, but I want to be able to communicate to assuage any fears she may have that I'm a mad poisoner - we farangs are known for being psychos.
She sounds like a girl I must of had sex with while not using condoms.

[Jungle Bluebird]

Oh well, Opebo, seems that all that bare backing has finally caught up with you. Not having learned this life lesson, you now proceed to self medicate and advise others. You even offer medication to a 'friend'. She may be allergic, has unknown medical conditions etc...

I am sorry, you are a fool. Hookers are Hookers for a reason. Poor, uneducated with few choices. Many can't read and are completely ignorant towards proper use of pharmaceuticals.

Ground rule in Thailand. Don't mix and mingle with hookers unless it's for sex!



I have a safe sex related question which involves the use of Thai language:

I have a regular down at the upcountry brothel I see maybe once a week, who alas now has the clap (either gonorrhea or clamydia or both), I believe due to previous visits I made to her just after returning from Pattaya, land of clap. Now I have cured myself of those ailments, but have found that I have been reinfected by this woman on subequent visits. She is of course like most women apparently asymptomatic.

Therefore, I need to approach her with a nice new unopened box of Zithromax, and persuade her to take it, but alas she speaks not a word of English. Can someone relate in simple Thai this basic story:

"Last time I saw you I got a little drip, and went to the doctor. He gave me this (Zithromax), and when I took it I was all better. So, can you please take this {pointing to Zithromax} so we can keep seeing each other?"

I realize the best method of persuasion is a nice tip, but I want to be able to communicate to assuage any fears she may have that I'm a mad poisoner - we farangs are known for being psychos.

[M P Lurker]

Mick Licker, the price of one box of five 250 miligram tablets of Zithromax is about 560 baht (of course one only takes four, a 1g dose. - not unlike the oft-malented missmatch between the quantity of hotdogs and buns). I rarely pay that much for sex, so Zithromax is more expensive than the act which occasions its use. But thanks so much for the tip about 'Binozyt'! How much does that run, in your experience?

Alas, in spite of many replies I still do not know how to communicate my exhortation to the lady in question.
I believe that 'Binozyt' cheaper brand equivalent was about half the price.

While I am not totally against self medication due to the doctors treating me less than adequately when I had Chlamydia, I am not totally in favour of feeding the pill to the girl.
She needs to know she probably has the clap somehow.
You are best to communicate it the message to her perhaps by getting someone to write it in Thai. If she can't read, then you could perhaps make a recording of someone speaking in Thai e.g. on MP3 player or the like, or taking her to see a doctor directly.
There is no totally easy answer I fear, but you are right to be concerned about her being cured.

[Animby]

Mick Licker, the price of one box of five 250 miligram tablets of Zithromax is about 560 baht (of course one only takes four, a 1g dose. - not unlike the oft-malented missmatch between the quantity of hotdogs and buns).Putting aside all my other problems with this thread, the dose of azithromycin used to treat UNCOMPLICATED cases of gonorrhea is TWO grams in a single dose on an empty stomach. It is common, due to the cost, for third world doctors to prescribe the minimum dosage and hope for the best. This leads to obscuring the symptoms and assisting the development of resistant organisms.

That simply means, because you are too foolish to wear a condom but smart enough to practice medicine without a license, that expensive antibiotic may not work in the future.

I'm sure we all appreciate your contribution

[Petemcc]

Putting aside all my other problems with this thread, the dose of azithromycin used to treat UNCOMPLICATED cases of gonorrhea is TWO grams in a single dose on an empty stomach. It is common, due to the cost, for third world doctors to prescribe the minimum dosage and hope for the best. This leads to obscuring the symptoms and assisting the development of resistant organisms.

That simply means, because you are too foolish to wear a condom but smart enough to practice medicine without a license, that expensive antibiotic may not work in the future.

I'm sure we all appreciate your contribution


Well said, exactly what I have been saying here for ages.

[Opebo]

Animby is mistaken. 1g is recommended by more sources than 2g, and is almost always effective. There is no reason, Animby, to expose yourself to an excess amount of an antibiotic when the adequate sufficiency will do - there are, after all, side effects.

Please, in future, Animby, strive not to engage in ad hominem attack. The choice whether or not to use a condom is a matter of personal taste and priorities, not one of 'intelligence'.

[Piper1]

Animby is mistaken. 1g is recommended by more sources than 2g, and is almost always effective.2g is recommended for syphilis.


The choice whether or not to use a condom is a matter of personal taste not one of 'intelligence'. A little research will show that there's a correlation between choosing not to use condoms, and lower IQ.

There's also a correlation between choosing not to use condoms, and 'hypermasculinity' (i.e., exaggeration of stereotypical male behavior to compensate for feelings of sexual inferiority).

So that's why I always use condoms. ;)

[Opebo]

2g is recommended for syphilis.

It cures that too? What a wonder drug! But of course syphilis is very rare.


There's also a correlation between choosing not to use condoms, and 'hypermasculinity' (i.e., exaggeration of stereotypical male behavior to compensate for feelings of sexual inferiority).


Interesting, Piper. Please see my latest report in 'Other Areas' for a cowardly tale which proves that I am neither very masculine, nor at all embarrassed by that fact.

[Piper1]

But of course syphilis is very rare. You're correct if you consider 1.2% of the Thai population having syphilis to be 'rare'. But being a prime candidate, you can multiply that at least ten-fold in your case. Minimum 12% chance? Time for a blood test.

[1Ball]

You're correct if you consider 1.2% of the Thai population having syphilis to be 'rare'. But being a prime candidate, you can multiply that at least ten-fold in your case. Minimum 12% chance? Time for a blood test.
Who needs a blood test when you can self medicate?
HaHaHa (cavernous Vincent Price-like laugh)

[Animby]

I'm not going to get involved in a big back and forth here. You can take my word for what I say or doubt it. Don't bother me none. I am a medical doctor and I work all over the world.

The accepted dose of this medicine for NONgonoccal urethritis is one gram in a single dose. For Gonococcal urethritis (ie gonnorhea) the recommended dose is TWO grams in a single dose.

Sorry, but this med is not recommended for the treatment of syphillis without specific culture to demonstrate sensitivity.

Taking too much of an antibiotic (within dosage limits) will do no harm. Taking too little leads to hiding symptoms, incomplete cures and resistant bacteria.

Condom use? Yes, it is a matter of personal choice. But so is putting on a blindfold and trying to cross the street in Bangkok. Both are also foolish. I don't know if either activity has a direct correlation to IQ. But I suspect they do.

That's my last on this subject. I don't wish to argue.

[Tiger 888]

Here a link everyone should read before falling for the stupid idea of self medication promoted here by some notorious fools who have a share in the responsibility for such an outcome.

585922

[Animby]

Thanks Tiger. Azithromycin is not a flouroquinolone, it is a macrolide antibiotic. But the problem is just the same. The gonoccocal bacteria is rapid in it's mutation to these drugs. That's why it's important to treat correctly. Take too small a dose and you kill off the easy bugs leaving the strong ones to reproduce.

Ah, for the good old days when a shot of penicillin would fix everything up.

[Petemcc]

Thanks Tiger. Azithromycin is not a flouroquinolone, it is a macrolide antibiotic. But the problem is just the same. The gonoccocal bacteria is rapid in it's mutation to these drugs. That's why it's important to treat correctly. Take too small a dose and you kill off the easy bugs leaving the strong ones to reproduce.

Ah, for the good old days when a shot of penicillin would fix everything up.

I love you guys. I've been telling idiots this stuff for ages. We are rapidly heading to the time where science cannot keep up with bacteria. These little fucks go through thousands of years of evolution in the space of 2 monger days.
Dick head doctors fucked up with antibiotics for teh last 20 years, now dick head mongers are making things worse.

The easiest way to avoid a dose is not to get one in the first place. Fuck, it's so simple. Hopefully these fucks will realise that only 70 years ago, people died from simple infections. With MRSA and the rapidly growing trend toward self medication of the most powerful Abs available, we are heading for that day once again.
These fucks also forget that STI bacteria will exchange DNA and hence resistance with normal flora, which can cause serious problems when equilibrium is upset.

But what's the point, eh? Those who are responsible will, those selfish fucks who don't care, don't care!

[Tiger 888]

I love you guys. I've been telling idiots this stuff for ages. We are rapidly heading to the time where science cannot keep up with bacteria. These little fucks go through thousands of years of evolution in the space of 2 monger days.
Dick head doctors fucked up with antibiotics for teh last 20 years, now dick head mongers are making things worse.

The easiest way to avoid a dose is not to get one in the first place. Fuck, it's so simple. Hopefully these fucks will realise that only 70 years ago, people died from simple infections. With MRSA and the rapidly growing trend toward self medication of the most powerful Abs available, we are heading for that day once again.
These fucks also forget that STI bacteria will exchange DNA and hence resistance with normal flora, which can cause serious problems when equilibrium is upset.

But what's the point, eh? Those who are responsible will, those selfish fucks who don't care, don't care!
There is always someone who doesn't care, therefore trouble is there at multiples necessary. That applies to all walks of life. And its not always as simple as in Dr. O'placebo's case.

[Lone Punter]

Occasionally I want take a HIV test and sometimes I check a girl too if I plan to stay longer with her. At Bumrungrad they require now that you see a doctor first, the cost will be around 2000 TB. Does anyone know a place to take reliable HIV tests at a reasonable cost?

Thanks for your help.

[M P Lurker]

Occasionally I want take a HIV test and sometimes I check a girl too if I plan to stay longer with her. At Bumrungrad they require now that you see a doctor first, the cost will be around 2000 TB. Does anyone know a place to take reliable HIV tests at a reasonable cost?

Thanks for your help.
There are many small medical clinics who will do a blood test for you, result tomorrow, for just a few hundred baht (so little I forget the fee). Check clinics in the bar areas, e.g. near Nana Plaza or Patpong or Soi Cowboy etc.

I went to a small clinic near corner of Ratchaparop and Din Daeng in Pratunam district but this was convenient because was staying at Century Park Hotel.

If they ask why you are being tested, just say your girlfriend asked you to get a test (to be sure).

[Animby]

Occasionally I want take a HIV test and sometimes I check a girl too if I plan to stay longer with her. At Bumrungrad they require now that you see a doctor first, the cost will be around 2000 TB. Does anyone know a place to take reliable HIV tests at a reasonable cost?

Thanks for your help.Mick's reply was good. One more thing, if you believe you have been exposed, it is not enough to have a test done. You must have a SECOND test done 4 to 6 months later. If BOTH are negative, lovely. If either is positive, sorry charlie. Same applies to the girl. If you want to go bareback with someone you're gonna be with for a while, remember one test is not enough. If it's gonna be a LONG while and you believe (probably falsely) she will be monogamous with you, get a second test after 6 months before throwing away the condoms.

While you're waiting for time to pass, you can listen to Monty Python's venereal disease song over and over for other things to worry about.

[Lone Punter]

Thanks a lot Licker for your suggestion! What would this board be without contributors like you. Always eager to check your pics, I will never forget that tiny ass from one of your former playmates.

[Abse2]

I came back from Pattaya and kept this 21 year old ago go girl for most of the time I was there, will post pics soon.
Prior to my visit to Los I bought couple of Home test kits from the Net.
Its cost about £12.00 per kit and cost much less if you buy bulk.
Its called Mirrates Hiv Home test and its reliable.
I used it on her even though she had her own cert but wanted to make sure,its gives result after 15 minutes.
I know there is no way to find out about other ST's but this is the main one,anyway I banged this slim chick ass and pussy.

carry on and be safe!!

Abse2

[Petemcc]

I came back from Pattaya and kept this 21 year old ago go girl for most of the time I was there, will post pics soon.
Prior to my visit to Los I bought couple of Home test kits from the Net.
Its cost about £12.00 per kit and cost much less if you buy bulk.
Its called Mirrates Hiv Home test and its reliable.
I used it on her even though she had her own cert but wanted to make sure,its gives result after 15 minutes.
I know there is no way to find out about other ST's but this is the main one,anyway I banged this slim chick ass and pussy.

carry on and be safe!!

Abse2

Are you fucking mad or what? I'm not going to waste bandwith writing 10,000 words on how fucked up that is. Try doing some research about HIV, the time it takes antibodies to appear, the tests, and everything else.

[Sun Rise]

Hey Abse2, looK you do what you want but I can tell you that the test you are talking about are shit. Let say the girl fuck all week before you meet her with out condon the test will never never find if she is HIV+. For a test it takes at best 6 weeks but to be really certain 3 to 6 months is the time it takes. If such test exist tell me why the are not used in hospital?
Bye
Sun Rise

[Abse2]

She my regular date in pattaya, I knew that it may flair up some hot air.
The best bareback ass fucking with Nuch.

[PassinThrough]

For a test it takes at best 6 weeks but to be really certain 3 to 6 months is the time it takes. If such test exist tell me why the are not used in hospital?
Sun Rise

Sun,

There are tests that can check for HIV after about 3 days from exposure. The tests that take a long time look for HIV antibodies which take a while time to develop in a human. The rapid tests which are 98% accurate 3 to 7 days after exposure and 99%+ accurate after 1 week, test for the virus itself. The reason they are more accurate is the longer the virus is in a persons system the more it has replicated itself so the more likely it is detected. These tests cost more than the antibody test so they are not the standard for general HIV testing. As far as I know they are also not available in the rapid HIV tests that are available on the market. If you go to a good hospital or clinic they should be able to run that test and give you the results in about 72 hours.

PIT

[Traveler1234]

Read this, according to latest NEJM article, those of us who luv daty are more susceptible to HPV virus.

Good news - there's a vaccine out.

[Freeman 418]

This is news to me.. I get regular check-ups between partners, and the modern/top clinics still recommend getting a test after around 3-4 weeks of exposure minimum.

As for the dude who posted about some Internet test kit for $20 lol.. man, u dont need a test kit.. u need a wing and a prayer. Like some other dude pointed out, if she had accepted bare back off you (and anal on top of that!!), she's been around the world already, and probably a few hours before she hopped into your bed. good luck lol.



Sun,

There are tests that can check for HIV after about 3 days from exposure. The tests that take a long time look for HIV antibodies which take a while time to develop in a human. The rapid tests which are 98% accurate 3 to 7 days after exposure and 99%+ accurate after 1 week, test for the virus itself. The reason they are more accurate is the longer the virus is in a persons system the more it has replicated itself so the more likely it is detected. These tests cost more than the antibody test so they are not the standard for general HIV testing. As far as I know they are also not available in the rapid HIV tests that are available on the market. If you go to a good hospital or clinic they should be able to run that test and give you the results in about 72 hours.

PIT

[Piper1]

While I was waiting at a sexual health clinic a few months back, I read one of the wall posters regarding a new anti-HIV 'morning after' medicine.

It said that if you'd had unsafe sex within the previous 48 hours, and were worried you'd exposed yourself to HIV, there's a new medication that will prevent HIV from developing (80% success rate if caught within 48 hours). How they measured this in clinical trials, I don't know.

Maybe Animby or another medical professional can provide more info on this new technology.

[Sun Rise]

Ok I see were are going in many directions here. I give you an example. Let say that a nurse gets hurt by a needle when she is doing a shoot to an HIV+ patient what do you think will happen? She will be put on treatment made for people that just got infected. This treatment is very very heavy for your body it's not like taking an aspirin and in 80-90% of the case after 6 months she will be negative. So if the best hospitals in the USA had a test that could tell you almost on the spot you are + or - don't you think the will use it so there nurse or doctors don't have to take all this costly and heavy treatment. So to really know if you have or she as HVI there are not many solution one test after 3 months and the other one after 6 months. And you have to use a condom in this 6 months period. This is the safe and the normal procedure. If you guys after want to take the risk and trust what a prostitute tells you and all the shit you can find on the net about miracles test or drugs and HIV it's hope to you.
Sun rise

[The Corn Hole]

Sun,

There are tests that can check for HIV after about 3 days from exposure. The tests that take a long time look for HIV antibodies which take a while time to develop in a human. The rapid tests which are 98% accurate 3 to 7 days after exposure and 99%+ accurate after 1 week, test for the virus itself. The reason they are more accurate is the longer the virus is in a persons system the more it has replicated itself so the more likely it is detected. These tests cost more than the antibody test so they are not the standard for general HIV testing. As far as I know they are also not available in the rapid HIV tests that are available on the market. If you go to a good hospital or clinic they should be able to run that test and give you the results in about 72 hours.

PIT

Hello,

I believe the test you're referring to is the PCR-DNA test wich is used in the porn industry. I've gotten this test done before and it will be the only test I will get done in the future. It can detect the virus usually no longer than a week after infection. It costs $160 to get it done. You go to a certain clinic and they take your blood sample and Fed Ex it to AIM in Los Angeles and they test it there. The common antibody test is a flawed test and shouldn't be taken in my opinion. It is important to point out that the ELISA test which is the most commonly used test has the highest percentage of false positives. Only 30% or so of positive ELISA tests are confirmed on a PCR-DNA test which tests for the virus itself. If you want to avoid some serious mental anguish over a potential false positive it is strongly advised to get the more sophisticated test done instead. The peace of mind is priceless in my view.

Keep in mind though that the pornstar Darren James who caught the virus in Brazil and returned to "work" in LA being HIV+ (and infected three others) took the PCR test and cleared it. Even this sophisticated test didn't catch it in time, so no test is 100% concrete.

[Abse2]

Please no preachers needed, just be sure where and which ink you lot dipped
your pen into.

You all coming up with yr own assumptions and none you have any knowledge
at all.

[NicFrenchy]

Please no preachers needed, just be sure where and which ink you lot dipped
your pen into.

You all coming up with yr own assumptions and none you have any knowledge
at all.Abse2,

You think the girl you are referring to as your Pattaya regular only has sex with you? I am sure her Thai Boyfriend(s) take her bareback, she most probably will deny this but she is playing Russian Roulette with her life and Yours.

No matter what can be written here, people who go Bareback are exposed to Viruses and with Today's means of information and prevention, if you catch the virus, you deserve it!

Play with Fire and inevitable one day you will get burned.

[Jungle Bluebird]

Just reading this thread gives me goosebumbs. Thinking of barebacking anal in Pattaya must be a result of complete denial.

Abse2, please do us all a favour, never venture to BKK and/or any sopies, MP's mentioned in this forum!

JB


Abse2, You think the girl you are referring to as your Pattaya regular only has sex with you? I am sure her Thai Boyfriend(s) take her bareback, she most probably will deny this but she is playing Russian Roulette with her life and Yours.

No matter what can be written here, people who go Bareback are exposed to Viruses and with Today's means of information and prevention, if you catch the virus, you deserve it!

Play with Fire and inevitable one day you will get burned.


Please no preachers needed, just be sure where and which ink you lot dipped
your pen into.You all coming up with yr own assumptions and none you have any knowledge
at all.

She my regular date in pattaya, I knew that it may flair up some hot air. The best bareback ass fucking with Nuch.

[Abse2]

Thats why all the white english guys are married to these disease riddled thai *****s out in Bangkok and Pattaya, they get kicked out from their homes here in u.k and go and find their true love in Thailand.(funny)

And most of the times to fucking drunk to notice if they have condom or not,thats why how manytimes you fucked bareback.

[Abse2]

when the plan comes together,I thought this thread is a bit boring so put a few quotes on to discuss bareback,I know all your guys eyes just light up when this subject is touched.
Please lets have some more keep this Safe Sex in Thailand section going.
Anyways of to sunny Dubai.
I got to clean my Thai rubber dolly!!

[1Ball]

I must say I am pretty open to anything, but those are the nastiest set of [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flaps I have ever seen. I like the lips high and tight, not dragging on the floor.
Disgusting.
She could feed a family of 4 with those things flapping in the breeze. No wonder you fucked her ass.
http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=70889

[Johnson994]

I must say I am pretty open to anything, but those are the nastiest set of [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) flaps I have ever seen. I like the lips high and tight, not dragging on the floor.
Disgusting.
She could feed a family of 4 with those things flapping in the breeze. No wonder you fucked her ass.
http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=70889I like them pussy lips big. The bigger the better.

[Rubber Nursey]

Post-Exposure Prophylaxis (HIV PEP)

There's heaps of info online if you're interested. The main thing is that it's certainly not a simple 'morning after medicine'. It's a month or more of at least two antiretroviral drugs...ie. the drugs they give HIV/AIDS patients. You'd want to be pretty damn sure the person you had sex with was HIV positive before you put yourself through all that!




While I was waiting at a sexual health clinic a few months back, I read one of the wall posters regarding a new anti-HIV 'morning after' medicine.

It said that if you'd had unsafe sex within the previous 48 hours, and were worried you'd exposed yourself to HIV, there's a new medication that will prevent HIV from developing (80% success rate if caught within 48 hours). How they measured this in clinical trials, I don't know.

Maybe Animby or another medical professional can provide more info on this new technology.

[Animby]

While I was waiting at a sexual health clinic a few months back, I read one of the wall posters regarding a new anti-HIV 'morning after' medicine. Sorry. I've left Egypt and am happily ensconced in the LOS. The little brown lovelies leave little time for reading the forum.

There is no "morning after" pill for HIV. It's that simple. Post known exposure, there is a recommended four WEEK treatment with up to four various antiretroviral drugs.

Those drugs are very expensive, have many nasty side-effects and, as we all know, have very little ability to "cure" an HIV infection. Taken early and appropriately, they do offer a fair chance of avoiding infection after exposure.

I think condoms are a lot less expensive, easier on the body and more effective.

BTW, someone mentioned a home test kit for HIV. Sorry. There are NONE that are approved for this purpose (and I just did a quick MedLine search to make sure my knowledge was not outdated). There are some companies who offer home collections systems but these must then be sent off to a laboratory for analysis.

I used to work in central Africa and we had access to a latex protein agglutination test that gave results in 10-12 hours. Problem was it had a very high rate of false negatives. In other words, it missed a lot of infections.

And, as has already been mentioned, the best test in the world may miss an infection that is only a few days or even weeks old.

Hey, I don't like 'em, either but, please, use a condom!

[Abse2]

Safe sex at its best!!(Awesome pics)


taken from D.K lee(china) section.

[Higgins T]

I haven't done oral sex on a thai girl yet - I hesitate because I'm affraid of getting an STD like herpes or ghonorea. On the other hand, it would be very nice :-) !!! Have any of you guys ever gotten an STD thru oral/DATY ? I not looking for any official statistics (everything in life can kill you...), rather your experiences and fist hand advice.

Thanks

[McJohn]

I got chlamydia once. Most likely from a BBBJ. Very unpleasant but relatively easily dealt with.

I've done DATY on >100 girls over the years and never got anything as far as I can tell. But sure as hell, it can be that the first time you try it yourself you get it. Life can be a ***** and with sex there's always a minimal risk you're catching something even if you are careful.

For me, paid sex without DATY, without a BBBJ and without kissing just doesn't do it (I always cover up for intercourse, though). But you're not gonna get this without a price, i.e. taking some small risk.

[McJohn]

I completely agree with Animby that there is no "morning after" pill for HIV. There's a antiretroviral postexposure prophylaxis but this is neither guaranteed to work nor without side effect. Here's what wikipedia says on the subject:


In the case of HIV infection, post-exposure prophylaxis is a course of antiretroviral drugs which is thought to reduce the risk of seroconversion after events with high risk of exposure to HIV (e.g. unprotected anal or vaginal sex, needlestick injuries, or sharing needles). To be effective, it must be started as soon as possible after exposure and ideally within an hour [1]. The treatment for HIV lasts four weeks [2].

While there is compelling data to suggest that PEP after HIV exposure is extremely effective, there have been cases where it has failed. The regimen can be very demanding and have unpleasant side effects including malaise, fatigue, diarrhoea, headaches, nausea and vomiting [3].

According to one Australian study, two thirds of people taking PEP experienced mild to moderate side effects and one quarter of people taking PEP experienced severe side effects.Regarding the HIV test kit, FDA indeed approved a rapid HIV test kit which gives results in as little as 20 minutes. Here's a link providing the information:

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2002/NEW00852.html

I don't think it's endorsed as an over-the-counter self-test kit, though. So, I'm not sure what you get if you order from one of these dubious internet firms selling home self-test kit. Beware also this is an antibody test, so it only gives reliable results after 12 weeks or more after HIV infection.

[Higgins T]

...But sure as hell, it can be that the first time you try it yourself you get it. Life can be a ***** and with sex there's always a minimal risk you're catching something even if you are careful. McJohn You're absolutely right! I was asking, because I am married (happily!) and I have some stopovers in Bangkok each year. P4P is just a short adventure there for me, just a thrill. I am happy with my whife and wouldn't want to loose or hurt her - so she should never ever find out (!!!). Bringing home a std would be very hard to explain and would infect her too. I would never want that. So I "eat" at home and only have protected sex the few times when I am in Bangkok

[Animby]

the HIV test kit, FDA indeed approved a rapid HIV test kit which gives results in as little as 20 minutes.

Beware also this is an antibody test, so it only gives reliable results after 12 weeks or more after HIV infection.I believe I mentioned I used this test (rapid latex agglutination) when I ran a clinic in Angola. To the best of my knowledge it has not been approved for home use. Since agglutination tests can be very subjective, I doubt it will be in it’s current form.

As to your comment about 12 weeks. Yes. And No. Antibodies to the HIV virus can take even longer than 3 months to respond. Usually, we recommend a negative test be confirmed six months later.

The problem with that, of course, is that people who exhibit the type of risky behavior that brought them to the clinic in the first place are unlikely to remain celibate during the ensuing six months.

[Dan7373]

I haven't done oral sex on a thai girl yet - I hesitate because I'm affraid of getting an STD like herpes or ghonorea....I never do oral on Thai women. Because I'm afraid of STD's. Some STD's like Syphilis, Herpes, HPV (causes warts and cancer), and HIV can lie dormant for years after you get an infection. But eventually they can cause some serious health problems for you.

Just because someone has done a lot of unprotected oral sex on Thai women and feels ok now, doesn't necessarily mean that he will be ok in the future.

I used to like doing oral on women. But to avoid possible infections, I've learned to enjoy masturbating women with my well-lubricated hand instead.

It's the woman's excitement and orgasm that matters to me. And I've found that making a woman orgasm with my hand is even better and easier than with my mouth. My hand is a lot stronger than my tongue. And my fine-movement control over my fingers is a lot better than it is over my tongue. I can stimulate the woman in many more ways with my fingers than I can with my tongue.

If you are going to do unportected oral sex on Thai women despite the dangers. Then I suggest that you rinse your mouth with mouthwash immediately afterwards. Mouthwash is designed to kill bacteria. And it may kill some viruses too. It won't give you 100% safety. But it will probably decrease your chances of getting an infection.

[Lama Di Bali]

I know because I got it.

I did an Eden Club double act. One of the girls (the one my choice chose as her partner) looked a bit pale and sick but I didn't think too much about it.

We fucked every which way, and each time both of them put a new condom on me. I'm 100% sure none broke.

The sick looking one gave me the blow job of my life -- and a strain of gonnorhea which I gave to my long-time girl friend in Germany (not impressed), and which the doctors at Berlin's most prestigious hospital Charite, could not cure.

In the end I had to go to a doctor who specialised in gay men's diseases and I had a series of shots in the ass at daily intervals.

The doc explained that the gonnococal germ can live in the mucous membranes of the throat.

You've been warned.

[Lover Boy #2]

If you are positive as to how you contracted this, I would hope that you have contacted the establishment so that they can get the girl some medical attention and see that she does not give this to another person.









I know because I got it.

I did an Eden Club double act. One of the girls (the one my choice chose as her partner) looked a bit pale and sick but I didn't think too much about it.

We fucked every which way, and each time both of them put a new condom on me. I'm 100% sure none broke.

The sick looking one gave me the blow job of my life -- and a strain of gonnorhea which I gave to my long-time girl friend in Germany (not impressed), and which the doctors at Berlin's most prestigious hospital Charite, could not cure.

In the end I had to go to a doctor who specialised in gay men's diseases and I had a series of shots in the ass at daily intervals.

The doc explained that the gonnococal germ can live in the mucous membranes of the throat.

You've been warned.

[MarcoStraight]

IMHO,

getting a Gohonorrea from Blow Job : very hard .
getting Clamydida from BJ : almost impossible.
getting syphilis from BJ : almost impossible.
getting HIV from BJ : almost impossible.
getting Herpes HSV from BJ : very easy.

Let the girl gargle with some Listerint before the job, sometime it did help.

If the girl got warts on her hand It's possible to get warts on penis having an handjob as well...

[Lama Di Bali]

IMHO,

getting a Gohonorrea from Blow Job : very hard .
getting Clamydida from BJ : almost impossible.
getting syphilis from BJ : almost impossible.
getting HIV from BJ : almost impossible.
getting Herpes HSV from BJ : very easy.

Let the girl gargle with some Listerint before the job, sometime it did help.

If the girl got warts on her hand It's possible to get warts on penis having an handjob as well...You can have your humble opinion.

In the humble opinion of the foremost venereologist working in Berlin, it is commonplace for the gonorrhea bacteria to live in the throat if the girl has given a blow job to a man who has the disease.

He says he sees it all the time in gay men.

It does not live in the mouth, it colonises the throat, so all the listerine in the world is not going to make a rat's ass of a difference.

The blow job I got was the ONLY unprotected sex I had and I have long ago given up the notion that I can get it from toilet seats.

[Tiger 888]

...getting a Gohonorrea from Blow Job : very hard ...

I did some time ago. Easier to cure in my case though, and I luckily didn't pass it on to anyone.

[Dan7373]

I found some information on this subject from the San Francisco City Clinic:

According to their information, a woman performing unprotected oral sex on a man is lot more dangerous in terms of disease transmission than is a man doing DATY on a woman.

A woman doing oral on a man can trasmit the following infections: Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, Hepaptitis A, Herpes, HPV, Shigella, and Syphylis. It's also possible to get HIV and Hepatitis B this way, although such infections through oral sex are rare.

But according this site, a man doing oral on the lady is at risk of getting only Herpes and possibly HPV.
http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/stdbasics/stdchart.asp

[M P Lurker]

IMHO,
getting a Gohonorrea from Blow Job : very hard .
getting Clamydida from BJ : almost impossible.
<cut>

IMHO your HO isn't worth much.
Clamydia is quite easy to catch. Research the Internet.
I have had Clamydia 2 times and no other STDs.
Both times condoms were worn for sex properly.
Once I got it from BBBJ with girl from the Grace Hotel Coffee shop.
2nd time got it in the left eye off my finger that had misbehaved with girls at J One MP most likely.