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Admin
05-18-02, 06:38
Select "Add New Message" to post a message.

Erik
05-21-02, 23:15
I find big boobs Viet girls for 5 USD/ST in China, along the Sino-Vietnamese border. And in Phnom Penh as well, but fewer. It might be that Northern girls have more big breasts than the Southeners. In Cambodia, it is Southeners, in China Northeners. Would any good connoisseurs of the Vietnamese anatomy confirm ?

Hamia
06-26-02, 09:06
Erik

Whereabouts on the Sino-Vietnam border were you - what towns? Might be heading down that way later this year.

Erik
06-26-02, 19:30
Hamia,
Mainly the three border crossing towns open to foreigners : Hekou, Pingxiang, Dongxin, but also Jinping.

BigthDikth
06-26-02, 21:25
Hey Erik, That's good to hear there are hot girls for $5 in an area of the world that's nearby for me. But which of those towns are the most tourist friendly? And which has the biggest selection of those wonderful big breasted beauties? Just planning, BigthDikth

Erik
06-27-02, 21:32
Tourist friendly : Well, that is China, and as every where else, you must expect to be the only "laowai" to patronise the girls, and to attract the eyes of the curious locals. But the atmosphere is relax, and most hotels friendly.
Big boobs : I did not mean at all that this region is specialised in big boobs girls. I only meant that for Vietnamese girls, I noticed that Northeners seem to have nicer breats that the Southeners. But I would appreciate your opinion you all on the subject.
For the best selection, I recommand Hekou, which litterary lives from that industry. Pingxiang has a Vietnam goods market with a few interesting barber shops, about 15 km south of the town, a kind of small K11. Last, Dongxin has a smaller selection, a bit more expensive, in the bars near the bridge.

FranklinD
07-02-02, 23:58
Has anyone had any success contacting girls in Vietnam on the internet? Any tips on free websites to use other than the "friendfiender" group which you have to pay for?

Vietkieu
07-28-02, 13:41
Hi all,
There are other free sites. The most popular one would be vietsingle.com where the girls have pics. The only problem is that most of these girls can only speak little english.

MrCharming
07-28-02, 18:16
Try http://www.vietnamladies.com to find Vietnamese ladies. They have a better selection and seem to speak english better than other sites.

Vietkieu
07-29-02, 13:01
Hi all,
Actually..the website you recommended is also a paid site. The problem is that the girls in those pictures were posted up to two years ago. A lot of those girls are my friends and many are already over here in America. They still have old addresses and phone numbers that doesnt work but I guess you can try. Just go to vietsingle.com....free and the girls will reply right away because they give email address of the girls.
Minh

FranklinD
08-01-02, 04:23
Hello all:

I need to find a source for getting Viagra in VN. Preferrably in Hanoi. Can anybody offer any tips on availability, price, where, etc.? I am assuming that is available over the counter.

Rumpus
12-05-02, 06:13
Hello folks. I'm thinking seriously about paying a first-time visit to Vietnam to experience some pretty, slender young oriental ladies.

Can somebody talk a little about the scene in general in Vietnam at present? I'm assuming most flights are going to be in to HCMC, is the scene there worth, err, doing, or should I try to get into the countryside?

The "frontier" feel of the country (for American travelers anyway) is appealing to me, but does that mean the tourist infrastructure is not very developed?

Average prices for the ladies?

How well will I get along knowing english and whatever handful of phrases I can memorize from a phrasebook (hello, yes, no, go away, how much)?

thanks!

Wanabee
01-18-04, 19:30
Hi,

Any of you guys ever combine a bicycle tour with your mongering activites? I had a great time doing this in Thailand and am now considering doing the same in VN.

PurpleNGold
03-08-04, 03:23
Sorry for cross posting, but I'm not sure where this one fits:

While on vacation, I want to take a few days to a week to visit Vietnam and possibly the PI. Since I would be starting out from Thailand, are there any special visa requirements coming or going?

Whisper1
03-08-04, 04:30
PurpleNGold,

You need a entry Visa in order to get in VN. They will ask you for it when you go through customs. You can get it at any travel agent here in the US. Just tell them where you are going and how long you'll be staying. BTW, the normal time it takes to get a Visa is two weeks. However you can expedite the process by paying a fee.

Brandon SJ
04-09-04, 02:33
Hi Frank,

I'm new to this forum and here's the website....

http://www.vnromance.com/frameset2.html

This is from my experience...I went to this site once and found the one that I like and I met up with her in VN.

BrandonSJ

Dothan
05-14-04, 19:36
I gotta get out of the states. Any suggestions on job placement sites for Asia? I did a google search and came up with a bunch of junk.

Domino
06-22-04, 09:42
Here are some general remarks for Purple and the others who need a break:
1. Visa: Citizens of all non Asean countries need a visa. I downloaded my application from the Vn Embassy, went into them and got the visa within 15 minutes. I thought it expensive but there you go. Fifteen minutes and I had it in my hand.
2. Flights: Ameirican Airlines and some others fly into Saigon.
3. Saigon Airport: Best to have someone waiting from a hotel or whatever. The airport is a disorganized place with lots of dudes hanging around. It is, in relative terms, a small terminal. Best to play safe here methinks.
4. Money: Uncle Ho Chi Minh is on all the notes. Try to take lots of small US$ bills with you too. There is about 15,000-20,000 dong to a US dollar. Check the cheat sheets but dollars are very widely used and they sure beat dealing with fists full of dong.
5. The American war: (as it is called here): There are heaps of war related things to see and quite rightly so in one sense. Moral of these is: you don't fuck with the Viets. It is funny watching the hordes of kids learn about how the French and Yanks got their asses kicked(which they did) but the older dudes among us will know all that anyway. Other than museums etc, there is little to see in Saigon. It is not a tourist site. It was a minor rural jewel in the French "empire" and then an R&R stop for US troops. It was never a Bangkok or Rome. All roads never led to it.
6. Collaterial damage: There are lots of malformed older peope around, sticking stumps of limbs into your face for chump change. Also, I came across some really grossly deformed people, a mixture of agent orange and poverty I guess. The cops do not tolerate panhandlers.
7. Motorbike mafia: The traffic chaos in Saigon has to be seen to be believed. They drive every which way. Streets are more 360 degree ways than 1 or 2 way. Watch out for thieves on motorbikes and gangs of kids and older trying to dip you. They even went for me.
8. The people: There are lots of them, everywhere. How the Yanks thought they could control them beats reason. Things are quiet now and if you have 2 or so legs and a nose, you can get lots of marriage proposals; I got a fistfull of them:(: There are a lot of poor people here. Half the population must be selling lottery tickets to the other half.
9. Touring: For Saigon, hire a cycle and pray to your God. They cost about $1 an hour. You can see all the Saigon sites in half a day and Chinatown etc in another half day. The cyclo is a bike where you sit in a big tray in the front. It is as safe as motorbikes etc (ie not all that safe, so pray, hard). I was warned not to take these dudes at night as they might strong arm you. In Saigon, they are used mostly by toursts now. In the rural areas, peddle power is still big. There are plenty of tour shops in District 1 (A French touch?). It seems easy enough to travel independently but it is a big country.
10. Mongering: The cyclo etc guys can be very helpful here. There is no open sex area like Pattaya and many hotels etc may not be too friendly. I for one would not like the Viet forces of law and order on my case. I feel if one needs sex, one should go where it is most openly on sale. Her it should be a pizza topping, not the main course.
11. Jobs: There are lots of ex pats here. Arriving on spec your only chance might be English. And you might have to watch visa problems.
12. General costs: $10 will get you a reasonable hotel, $10 a woman, $1 a medium distance motorbike trip. The place is cheaper than Thailand but not as developed.
13. Will I be back? Probably not. Depending on the time frame, there are better places availalbe. Vietnam's big plus is the good bbbj, second only to Malaysia. But ymmv.

Domino
06-25-04, 05:15
Departure Tax: $12 US or dong equivalent. Bring lots of small US $ bills with you. They are as good as dong and you can expect in many places to get dong/$ in change. Some places say the departure tax is $14 but I paid $12.

Exchanging money: Gold shops and others will exchange into or frm dong for you but the banks give a better rate. You pay for the convenience.

Time to evacuate. I spent the day in Cu Chi, looking at the tunnels. I fired off a few AK47 bullets at $1 a pop. The temple was also worth a look. The 12 noon service is worth seeing. You get both in a day trip for a few $$. Overall, I don't think I will be back to Vietnam. Mongering wise, there are better alternatives but ymmv. I have only a few dong left for a cab ($3) to the airport. The rest I will pay with dollars. The cab to the airport from District 1 was 50 k dong, the hotel arranged it in advance. Hope this was of some help.

There are crowds hanging around the temrinal which is very small and provincial looking. A small backpack is best to barge your way past them and into the terminal. Many Viet travellers seem to have LOTS of luggage.

Sexmania: Thanks for your PM. Yes, I am a crazy guy going into back alleys with pimps and hookers but hey they have to make a living too off suckers like me:)

Here are a few more rather tangential points that may be of help in this slim board:

I saw Goodenough's post in Other Areas. I can only talk for what I saw. It would be good if people would post facts and information so those of us who follow can add some meat to them. Otherwise, we are all doing trial and many errors.

It obviously makes a huge difference whether one is just visiting or living in a place. On a flying visit, time is of the essence. That is why facts are needed.

I had a good straight massage at the Vietnamese Traditional Massage Institute 185 D Cong Quynh, just around the corner. 60k dong for two hours by a young blind lady who gave a crap massage but sang away nicely to herself while she slapped me around. She disappeared as soon as the 2 hours (read 90 minutes) were up. Places like that do great work. A blind guy came in after an hour and said "Kiss me" to me. I said what. He leaned into my ear and said "Kiss me". Turns out he was saying excuse me and wanted to know if I wanted to change masseurs. I stayed with the nice little lark I had. I get a kick out of bad sevice like that I like the strwak of independence it shows.

The Vn massage differs very much from the Thai version. Plenty of gentle slapping (a hooker massaged me the same way the previous night). Overall, I think I prefer the Thai version.

Loney Planet etc go on about these people and it is good to help them. But instead of supplying information, LP Vietnam seems to lecture a lot.

The tours from backpackers havens are also cheap. Check out www.sinhcafevn.com as an example. This place is so famous that in Hanoi there are many many fake ones by all accounts.

But everything you buy is marked up. We were brought to a "candy factory" in the middle of the Mekong. I found the same sweets on sale at 40% of the price here in a Saigon supermarket. The moral here is to buy your souvenirs at supermarkets and shopping malls.

Although these is not much mongering advice here, I guess I visited Vung Tau after a crackdown. The scene in the Mekong Delta seemed cool enough though.

I guess for the older ones of us, the war still looms large. There is a guy here was with the 25th Infantry Division sitting atop the tunnels of Cu Chi. It is hard for him to move on as so many of his mates got whacked there. Of course, General Giap is still alive and it is hard to see this place becoming another Pattaya until the resonances of the war fade away. I don't think it ever will.

One big plus for me is the way Viet women dress. They wear pyjamas that give me, at least, a massive hard on. Some of those ladies can attest to that.

An interesting socio political titbit I picked up is this: the Catholic Church is doing very well here. They have more bishops than ever. The Commies love them as they don't do drugs etc and are not a political threat. The payback might well be a tighter look on anti social evils in strong Catholic areas. Vung Tao has a Rio type Jesus watching over it. Jesus is as unsuccessful as Unce Ho because the dear daughters are happy to go for a bite with Mr

Pizzaman

Horatio
10-12-04, 15:24
Dear Sirs and Madames,

Can somone tell me what the legal status of our hobby is in Vietnam. Is it completely legal, or illegal but widely accepted, or something else entirely? I plan on travelling there at the first of the year and am something of the nervous type when in a new situation.

Thanks for any information you have on the subject.

Sincerely Horatio

swedtraveller
10-24-04, 18:10
Hi everyone!

Need some answers from someone who knows VN well. I am going to Hai Duong (about 50km east of Hanoi) in Feb. 2005 to visit some viet friends there. I have been once before but with viet friends from home so no language problems that time. But there will be this time but that will be my problem. Anyway, since I am going to stay with my viet friends living there and I suspect they will be with me most of the time, girls will be hard to find. Or? What is the traditional view on sex among young people in northern VN. Last time I was there it was only for 10 days so I waited till I came back to Thailand but now I will stay for 3-4 weeks. Is it possible for a foreigner to get sex from a young, single "good" girl in north VN without promising a wedding? What is their view? And if that is out of the question, is there a general way to find bar girls or other prostitutes? I mean like a red light in the window or just to ask girls who are out after 10 pm or something. Or is it just to ask someone else? Who is best to ask? I will not ask my friends.

Swedtraveller

Joe100
03-14-05, 13:30
Hi,

I am just back from my second successful trip to the Philippines. I had an awesome time and whilst i would like to go back, life is too short and there are other places to see.

As a result, i am shopping for a new destination - and from many aspects vietnam seems like a good candidate. My interest is not only in this hobby - but in seeing the sites, checking out the curiousities of a country and seeing how they live.

Vietnam certainly seems interesting but i have a few concerns with regard to mongering with which many of you could probably help me:

1. Hotels: Guest-friendly hotels seem to be an issue. If i research well, can this be overcome? I will only have a couple of weeks there so i have to get this right.

2. Girls: Someone who is familar both with the phillipines and vietnam would probably be best able to convey how different they are in terms of the mongering scene.

From what i've read on this board and others, it seems that most clubs are disguised as other businesses and harder to find. How big of a drag is this going to be for someone who will only have a couple of weeks in-country?

3. Costs: In comparison with the philippines, will a trip to vietnam be more expensive or less with regard to hotels, girls, drinking and general expenses?

Any input would be very welcome.

Coma Boy
03-28-05, 07:38
How easy is it to get online in Nam these days?

Last time I was there it was nearly impossible, but that was quite a few years ago. Presumably internet cafes have now sprung up everywhere, right?

Last time I was in HCM I had problems bringing girls to my room, which I wasn't particularly surprised to discover. However, this was quickly resolved with a bribe.

After a few days, whilst in my room early one evening there was a knock at my door and three police officers entered. They asked me why I was in HCM, what I was doing here etc. I told them I was a tourist and was just on holiday. They had a good snoop around my room and were especially interested in the contents of the trash. I assumed they were looking for used condoms or drug paraphanalia.

Anyway, returning next week to see what goodies I can find in Hanoi and HCM.

So, someone please let me know about net access, please.

Sixty
03-28-05, 12:41
When was the last time you where in VN, mate?

Nowadays you can find internet cafes in almost any street. The prices are very low too. Around 5000$ per hour.

Coma Boy
03-29-05, 05:17
It feels like just a few years ago but just checked my passport and it was seven years ago- how time flies.

Yeah, I assumed they would have caught on by now, thanks for the reply.

Sixty
05-02-05, 18:46
Hello again,

On my next trip to vn i`m thinking of using a camera but not neccessary a laptop. so i`d like to upload my photo to my homepage. did anyone of you know how fast the upload speed in the cafes are?

If the speed is pretty fast - even for large files- i´d leave my laptop home.

Thanks for any help.

Regards,

Sixty

El Frances
05-04-05, 09:29
hi!

it is usually slow, but getting better as more internet cafe get adsl connection, especially in big cities. but anyway, they can put more than 20 computers on the same connection. speed is mostly dependent of the time of the day, as the capacity of the backbone seems to be limited, so when it's convenient for you to use it, it's slow. personally, i bring my laptop. it's also better to convince girls to let you take pictures of them if they can see them.

cheers

M_Charlus
05-09-05, 20:40
The better idea is to have the internet cafe burn you a cd-rom of your photos, in my experience it costs only a couple of bucks, they have the connector cables, and they dont get to see your photos because you do it yourself. Uploading will take you ages, and a computer might get stolen.

Samu Ray
06-29-05, 07:00
I was in Pattaya in April. At the end of April went to Mae Sai, Burma border, to renew my Thai visa. Paid $5 and took me half hour. On my way back to BKK I spent a week in Chiang Mai. Visited three *****houses that sit next to each other on "Ninanhemein" road, actually it is on soi 13 off a block away of the main road, "Ninan. ". One house was closed, wnet to the one in the middle. In years past I would find young girls, over 18 I would say, not too good looking but with nice butts. The price has gone up, now it costs 340bt. At the end of June had to go to Cambodia, visited Svy pak. Took a walk along the main st, did not see any girl. The *****houses were deserted. The iron doors rusting! I have been in Cambodia the whole month of June. Visited the known bars and I could not find an attractive girl with a good butt! Oh! there was one Viet girl playing pool at "Sharky's", . she doesn't screw because she has a boyfriend! I wen to the Vietnam consulate to get a visa. There is a guard just before the entrace, this guy asks me for my passport an says, visa will cost $35. I took my passport back, went inside the office, I was told visa price was $30. So you know, Beware! It takes three days to get a visa.

I Have been visiting this part of the world every year for the past, seven years, actually I have lost count!

Makes me feel very humble when I read. "stayed at such and such hotel, $200 a night. took a woman for a short time, gave her so much. worth every penny! WHO THE HELL CARES! I DON'T!

There are about three guys that post on Peru, Lima, these guys call the girls "cholitas" don't these ignorants know that, that term is insulting? If they think the girls are not up to their white asses, why the hell do they go there! I suppose they think because they have white asses (gringos) they should get white *****s! These (gringos), are they unable to scew *****s in their own country that they have to go to other countries?

When I visit certain countries I know what to expect. There is no need to put down anybody, apparently "gringos" don't thik so. BASTARS!

Gaolei
07-11-05, 00:53
I have convinced a company in Vietnam that the best way for me to get into Vietnam is to get my visa in Bangkok. Can anyone tell me if that's really true? Please share your experiences and helpful hints about getting a visa there. Can it be done on a Saturday? How many days to get it? Who's butt has to be kissed and who's hand greased? Thanks.

Samu Ray
07-11-05, 04:58
I have convinced a company in Vietnam that the best way for me to get into Vietnam is to get my visa in Bangkok. Can anyone tell me if that's really true? Please share your experiences and helpful hints about getting a visa there. Can it be done on a Saturday? How many days to get it? Who's butt has to be kissed and who's hand greased? Thanks.The viet embassy in BKK is on "Wireless St" close to the US Embassy.

I got my Viet visa in Cambodia, $30, took three days. Hope that helps!

Coma Boy
07-11-05, 12:44
If you want to get a Vietnamese entry visa in Bangkok then it is easy, and very straight-forward. Vietnam welcomes tourists and no hand-greasing or butt-kissing is necessary.

Just fill in the application forms that any travel agent can provide for you, and have them send it over to the embassy. Or visit the embassy yourself if you don't mind sitting around.

You should probably ask that Google guy if you're still confused.

Domino
07-11-05, 13:07
http://www.vietnamembassy.or.th/visa.html
Here is the Vietnam Embassy link you require. Amazing you think the Vn embassy would be opened on a Saturday. God help your company.

Farangfab
07-26-05, 15:33
Which is the best place for stay near Hanoi?

Cat ba is good or not?

There are problems about pictures?

Please, anyone can help me?

Paul76
08-26-05, 14:49
Hello to everybody,

I am Portuguese man (Europe Portugal)

I will go soon to Vietnam (stopover in Macau) and I will stay there for next years (working expart). Due to I am single may be I will try to meet my soulmate in Vietnam.

So how is the interracial dating in Vietnam?

Is it truth that the Vietnamese girls who seek western men are most of them bargirls or so?

Can you give me any tips to meet a traditional Vietnamese girl?

I would appreciate if anybody here give me any tips or advice about Vietnamese culture / society and how to meet a Vietnamese girl traditional (family oriented). If you prefer you can write to my private messager.

Until to meet my soulmate I will go out at night. (heheheh)

Thank you for your atention and time.

Paulo

White Monkey
09-19-05, 03:19
Hey Paulo,

Interracial dating is similar to Thailand and the rest of SE Asia. While in the past it was frowned upon (and the girl was seen as a prostitute) is has become more common in teh past ten years or so.

Of course a man must do two things:

One, be aware of the cultural norms and adhere to them. In other words don't make a bar girl your lady and then show her around town.

Second, learn about the language.

Third, in all developing or underdeveloped countries there are ladies looking for a meal ticket. Be careful and find a girl that has something to lose NOT one that has nothing to lose.

I have quite a few friends married to Vietnamese women. They are young and educated, as are their mates BUT they are also fluent in Vietnamese.

Good luck


Hello to everybody,

I am Portuguese man (Europe Portugal)

I will go soon to Vietnam (stopover in Macau) and I will stay there for next years (working expart). Due to I am single may be I will try to meet my soulmate in Vietnam.

So how is the interracial dating in Vietnam?

Is it truth that the Vietnamese girls who seek western men are most of them bargirls or so?

Can you give me any tips to meet a traditional Vietnamese girl?

I would appreciate if anybody here give me any tips or advice about Vietnamese culture / society and how to meet a Vietnamese girl traditional (family oriented). If you prefer you can write to my private messager.

Until to meet my soulmate I will go out at night. (heheheh)

Thank you for your atention and time.

Paulo

Paul76
09-20-05, 10:01
Hello,

I have read in a article on internet that.

This is prohibited:

"vietnameses girls can not be in the room of any hotel with a foreigner men"

Is it truth?

Thanks

Paulo

White Monkey
09-23-05, 09:01
It seems that the country leaves you with an air of paranoia wherever you go. It is changing though

I have had a number of legit women come up to my room for a shag in both Saigon and Hanoi. It does need to be before a certain time, i.e. before 9 pm. There is a little bit of an embarrasment to have them drop off the id at the reception, but after that is over...enjoy. In the five star hotels, all is good, who is to tell, it may be a business meeting (unless the dress of the lady ins inappropriate)

At night time the options are the short term hotels. Not a problem, but again one always feels a bit worried about the authorities coming up. Be careful and trust your instincts. Don't make a scene or someone may look for a bit of revenge.

The other option is the massage parlours.


Hello,

I have read in a article on internet that.

This is prohibited:

"vietnameses girls can not be in the room of any hotel with a foreigner men"

Is it truth?

Thanks

Paulo

1Ball
09-27-05, 00:17
Hi guys, have done a few searches, and have come up empty.

I understand I need an outbound ticket, when I land in Hanoi, and that immigration will ask to see it, so buying it after arriving is not an option. ( I have a O/W into Hanoi)

Can someone please tell me if they have a trustworthy travel agent in Hanoi, who can issue me a ticket, or if someone knows a good company in the USA that can issue me a O/W from Hanoi to BKK ?

Thank you

StuBaby22
09-27-05, 01:51
Hi guys, have done a few searches, and have come up empty.

I understand I need an outbound ticket, when I land in Hanoi, and that immigration will ask to see it, so buying it after arriving is not an option. ( I have a O/W into Hanoi)

Can someone please tell me if they have a trustworthy travel agent in Hanoi, who can issue me a ticket, or if someone knows a good company in the USA that can issue me a O/W from Hanoi to BKK ?

Thank youI have agreat travel agent in Hanoi who is trustworthy and will give you any tickets,hotel reservations or car/guide hire.Can arrange anything for you in Vietnam.

e-mail address is [Email Address deleted by Admin]

I have booked accom,air tickets and private guides all thur them this year and paid via western union (for the air tickets) and found them to be great to deal with. There office is in the old quarter of Hanoi. easy to find as in Darling Street.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending removal of email addresses in the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system to exchange this information. Thanks!

Samu Ray
09-27-05, 06:02
Hello everyone!

Has any of you traveled, from Vietnam to Thailand, through Lao Bao, Laos,
Savannakhet? how long does it take, is there bus service, is the road paved? Is there a *****house at the Lao Bao border?

Thanks

I understand I need an outbound ticket, when I land in Hanoi, and that immigration will ask to see it, so buying it after arriving is not an option. ( I have a O/W into Hanoi)

Can someone please tell me if they have a trustworthy travel agent in Hanoi, who can issue me a ticket, or if someone knows a good company in the USA that can issue me a O/W from Hanoi to BKK ?

Thank you[/QUOTE]

Sajer Guy
10-11-05, 13:21
Can anyone explain the details of mongering at a "bia om"? I went with a Viet Kieu on my last trip and never made it to any of them. We were around Bac Lieu and nothing was on offer in the western style karaoke joint but I heard that the bia om are the place to go.

Sajer

White Monkey
10-23-05, 19:17
Bia (beer) om (to hug)

These are places to go for hotties, like private karaoke but where you can hold onto the gal and she feeds you beer. Very Vietnamese in style but has some of the best looking women.

Can be pricey and is best to go with locals. You pay for them to sit around wit cha and if you like you can pay even more for a shag.

The few times I did it, we had our own room, three guys and three gals. They fed us and we sang songs until we were riled up enough to take them into the back room or bathroom.


Can anyone explain the details of mongering at a "bia om"? I went with a Viet Kieu on my last trip and never made it to any of them. We were around Bac Lieu and nothing was on offer in the western style karaoke joint but I heard that the bia om are the place to go.

Sajer

Silly Puppy
10-31-05, 07:08
In the past bia om is the place for you to drink beer and play with the girl in your arm for chatting and groping. There was no singing whatsoever. Then Karaoke wave took over and bia om's have developed into a similar style except they are normally much smaller. Singing in this bia om place is just a part of playing with time and chatting/groping/or getting a hand job from the girl, sometimes you can fuck them in another room. You still can find many bia om's without Karaoke throughout the country.

In Bac Lieu it is a relatively small town. I have not been there but it should have bia om's just like the rest of other small towns. You guys should have gone with a local, not a Vietkieu as he is basically like you. He could have helped you by speaking to the xetho's or cyclo drivers.

Co Van My
11-04-05, 17:54
I received a private message from a European who is considering trying to find a Vietnamese wife. He asked me some questions, and while I am certainly not an expert, I thought the issues that he raised might be of interest to this forum.

The man in question is 39 years old. He wants to marry and build a family. In his words, he would like to find a “soul mate.” He has read about Vietnam and its culture and likes what he has learned. He has never traveled to Vietnam.

Here is my reply to his questions. It exceeds the limit for a single post, so I have broken it down into two messages.

Thanks for your message. Before I try to comment on your questions, please let me say that I don't claim to be an expert on Vietnam or its culture. I have spent a lot of time there, but few Westerners can ever fully understand or appreciate another culture, and Vietamese culture can be especially difficult.

You said:

"...but i have read that most of the vietnamses girls who date western men or foreigner are bargirls/prostitutes. Is it truth?

Yes, probably true, but only because most foreigners stay in the tourist and bar areas and seldom go to the smaller towns or countryside, so traditional girls do not have much chance to meet foreigners.

"...can you give any tips to meet a traditional vietnamese girl?

Meeting them is easy. They are in every shop, every restaurant, every church, every market. But if you want to develop a good relationship you need to invest a lot of time and effort. Learn the language. Learn the culture. Develop an understanding of the people. If you can't do this, how can you expect anyone to love you or devote themselves to you except purely for financial security-or for a ticket out of Vietnam?

"...how can we discern bargirls and traditionals girls?
on internet i only met scammers

You will only know when you go there. You need to spend time with them in their country. Actually, I rarely recommend that a Westerner marry a girl in Vietnam and bring her back to his native country. The girl you marry will change in the presence of your culture, just as you would change if you lived in Vietnam for an extended period. It's inevitable. And many of them change for the worse. Their traditional values vanish in the face of Western culture, money and convenience.

If you are attracted by Vietnamese looks and manners, it is far better to find a Vietnamese girl who has lived in the West for a few years. Europe, especially France, is full of them. If they have been here five years or more, then you will probably see their true character.

"...and about my age 39 ? what is the limit and safest about the age gap between the couple?

In Vietnam, an age gap of 5 to 10 years is most common. Most Vietnamese women consider themselves to be old at the age of 25. If they are not married by then, they worry (often correctly) that they will not marry at all. There are many, many women 25-35 years of age who would love to marry anyone, foreign or Vietnamese, but you need to spend enough time with them to understand whether they are really right for you or just taking advantage of the last chance they might have.

Co Van My
11-04-05, 18:00
[The man's questions continue]

"...how is the dating in vietnam?

If it is a traditional girl, dating cam be very frustrating for a Westerner. A younger brother or sister will usually go along with the two of you. You will almost never be alone, at least in the early stages. If you understand Vietnamese culture, you will know that you don't just marry a Vietnamese girl--you marry her family, and they will be a part of your life forever. If you shut them off, you will have a very unhappy wife, and that means a miserable life for yourself.

After marriage, you will be asked to help support your wife's family in Vietnam. This shouldn't require a huge amount of money, but you need to be mentally prepared to take on that responsibility. Also, it would be an unusual wife who didn't expect to go back to Vietnam every couple of years to visit her family. These trips can be VERY expensive involving several thousand dollars in cash gifts. If this isn't in your comfort zone, then be sure your wife knows your intentions before you ever get married.

"...and other thing what is the minimum and medium wages in vietnam ? because i did not understand when they talked about that

Things are changing rapidly in Vietnam, especially in the cities. Nevertheless, a city girl with a normal job still makes less than $100/month. In the countryside, the average earnings are less than $400 per year (for the entire family).

Once again, I must say that if you are sincerely interested in finding a "soul mate" rather than simple chattel, then you need to make a big investment. She will not just fall into your lap in Vietnam any more than in your own country. Learn the language. Go there. Develop a love for the food and the culture.

Please understand that these are my own views, the views of a Western guy who has spent a lot of time in Asia, particularly in Vietnam, and who spends more time in the Vietnamese (Viet kieu) society in the United States than in American society. But this is still a Western point of view, and the Vietnamese might have a very different oinion about these things.

Look closely at the things various Vietnamese have written on this forum. They offer a some revealing glimpses into the Vietnamese frame of mind. This is the culture that you aspire to be a part of.

Silly Puppy
11-06-05, 05:06
I think your opinions are very valuable to Westerners who really want to get into serious relationship with Viet girls/women. They are objective and show a good sense of understanding of Viet culture and its people. I seldom see similar opinions in any other forums. A lot of them have to do with Western male egocentrism and chauvinism which I find very degrading to Asian women.

The gentleman that you mentioned also asked me for opinions and I hesitated to answer him. I understand that some Westerners find Viet or Asian girls attractive and want to know them better, but some, since they have difficulty in finding their mates in the same original country they try to go the easy way which is to find girls in poor countries. This problem also happens to many Viet Kieu in US who lack means to attract their female counterparts so they go back to the country and are able to marry some attractive girls and bring them to US.

The only differences between this gentleman and other Vietkieu are origins and looks, but they are similar in many other ways. I recommend him to look for compatible soul mates. Don't look for too young girls if he wants a lasting relationship. Learn the culture and language and at the same time encourage her to learn his. If he looks for girls/women from outskirt area keep in mind most of them are iliterate thus very difficult to communicate. I think he should try to find a city girl who is educated enough so they have better chance to understand each other. I have seen many Vietkieu who in 40's married girls 20 years their junior. Most marriages last less than a year. In some cases hubby killed his wife and her family. I've also seen many sucsessful marriages. These couples are normally very compatible in age, looks even though there is a big gap in level of education.

Whisper1
11-06-05, 06:33
Co Van My - great post, very thorough answer. I share the same view point.

James Tran - I have read some of your recent posts and most of them are out of whack. I don't share the same view point as you do but I respect your opinion. But to assume that Westerners and Viet Kieus who go back to Vietnam to get marry are losers in there own country is just wrong. I have a caucasian friend who is handsome and a CEO of a major fashion label. He will only date asian women. He goes back to Vietnam every December just to hang out and hook up with Vietnamese women. I have another friend who is Vietnamese but will only date white women. He also goes back every December but will only go to Pham Ngu Lao to pick up white women who are here on vacation or work. That goes to show that you can't assume everyone is like you.

Co Van My
11-06-05, 19:23
James Tran's insights are a welcome addition to what I suggested, especially his view on Viet kieu relationships with Vietnamese girls. I think it is especially hard for them to accept the changes that the Vietnamese girl will undergo when she has spent a year or two in a Western country. She probably will not remain the same as the girl he married.

It seems to me that in the Vietnamese culture, many men have difficulty in accepting the Western role models for women who assert more indepence. Once in the West, the Vietnamese bride often has a chance to get a better education, learn better English, and get a better job than her husband, who did not have the time or money to really advance himself when he first arrived--too busy working 18 hours a day at low pay just to stay alive. It's very hard for some of them to accept a wife who seems to pass them by both socially and economically.

I would have little hesitation to marry a girl who has been in my country for a few years, but I have often wondered what I would do if I fell in love with a Vietnamese girl during my visits to Vietnam. If this was really "true love," I would probably move myself to Vietnam rather than to move her to the U.S.

I know that I would be leaving my own way of life and adopting another, a tough challenge at any age, but probably easier for an old guy like me. And isn't that what the foreigner would be asking the girl to do by leaving her family in Vietnam and coming to the West?

It's extremely difficult. So I try not to fall in love :-)

LexLuther
11-06-05, 19:48
co van my,

lex was married to a viet gal for almost 30 years. she did change as a result of this culture. you also have to understand something about viet culture and the family. the probability is that they will never really accept you in the way you would like to be accepted.

even when the family is here in this country. these people are extremely ambitious and industrious. part of this is because they have experience living in a country where they had to scrape so hard to make a living. so once here, they will most likely be very successful. however no matter how successful they become, to them you will always be the "rich" american. they will always expect you to spread your supposed wealth on them. this is true even if you are not wealthy. i don't think that they understand that not all americans are wealthy. so you will be expected to shower them with largesse in a way that no american in-laws would ever expect.

there will always be a tension between your wife and yourself vis-a-vis the family, no matter where the family is. and when she goes back for visits, you will find that this is expensive indeed.

just my .01

lex

Silly Puppy
11-06-05, 20:54
Lex .. you are right on. You are one of a few Westerners who really understand Viet women.

Whisper1 ... you are wrong. While I did not say ALL Westerner and Vietkieu who come to VN to get married are losers, I'd maintain that MOST of them are losers. There are always exceptions, thought, which your friend is probably one. If you paid attention to my posts you should have known that one exception I mentioned is SOME Westerners find Viet girls attractive and they desire them. But for Vietkieu I'd say if they go back to the country to hook up with Viet girls at least more than 90% are desperate. I myself and many dignified Viet men do not want to marry Viet girls in VN. To us it is a desperate attempt. Many Viet girls in US also agree with us.

Whisper1
11-07-05, 09:05
I've been living in Vietnam for almost 2 years because of work. I also have 3 close friends who are living here with me. Three out of 4 of us have a steady relationship with a vietnamese girl. To say that 'most' or '90%' who comes back here are desperate is wrong. I hang out with a large Viet Kieu community in Saigon, most of them are young and ambitious. We are all in our early 30's (I'm 30 just incase you were wondering) who are working here in various of different fields. Since most of the Vk's are here for the long haul, how do you expect any of us not hook up with the locals. So are 90% of us losers?

I would have to agree with you that most girls in America, especially the Vietnamese girls, think that all the guys that go back to Vietnam is to hook up. I myself had to deal with this issue with many girls I know. But most of these girls have never been back to Vietnam, and if they have, it's only once or twice years ago. They think that our "work" is just an excuse to F-around. I don't think that you, or these girls truely understand how Vietnam is right now. The economy is booming, Vietnam is getting ready to enter into the WTO. Alot of companies are investing in this country. The way you and the girls in America think is simply ignorant.

Weelock
11-07-05, 10:06
Lex .. you are right on. You are one of a few Westerners who really understand Viet women.

Whisper1 ... you are wrong. While I did not say ALL Westerner and Vietkieu who come to VN to get married are losers, I'd maintain that MOST of them are losers.
Cut-


Once over in the USA, they expect you to support her family by sending money back. Then they expect you to bring her family over as soon as possible. YOU will be supporting them for the rest of your life since they think everyone in the USA is rich. Thinking about a divorce, then she will want money. This is true for a lot 3rd world Asian counties. Once married, either way it will get very expensive.

Weelock

Silly Puppy
11-07-05, 20:46
Whisper1: If you come to VN to work then it is a different situation. If this is a special case then you should understand I can't and will never be able cover every possible case in my generalization. In my personal experience I've never known anyone in the Viet community where I live go back to VN to work. But I've known plenty of losers who could not get a girl here go back there and bring back someone with them. If it is not 90% then it still is a high percentage.

But why do you worry too much about it? There is a common Vietnamese saying "co tat giat minh" which literally means "One is worried if one has a bad habit." You should be proud of what you are and take my words as grains of salt if you don't belong to this mass exodus.

Couple things about Viet girls or men in Vietnam that I want to say. These people they have been trained under a conmunist system which teaches them achieve-anything-at-any-cost principle in the last 30 years. There is very little teaching about fairness, decency, good citizenship, morality, etc like we under Western world have been learning. Thirty years ago their fathers and mothers used this priciple to drive the American out and won the Vietnam war. They achieved the goal by sacrificing millions of innocent people. Now their children are learning the new meaning about money and that is all they care. They look at you as you are a gold mine for them to excavate. Exceptions are religous people who still have learned good dogmatics from their own religions. So I'd recommend whoever wants a good and lasting marriage/relationship go looking for these people. Otherwise there is a high percentage that you are destined to a disastrous end.

BTW, you mentioned "The economy is booming, Vietnam is getting ready to enter into the WTO. Alot of companies are investing in this country. The way you and the girls in America think is simply ignorant."
Everyone knows Vietnamese economy is booming. My company is also investing in VN. But this has nothing to do with the fact that many losers are going back to VN to get married because fierce competition in US gives them little chance and thus drives them out to look for easier opportunity. Or they may think US girls are too Americanized thus they want somebody more submissive. This is very ignorant. They forget that once they bring the girls back here it will take a long and difficult effort to work differences out. Either he or she must change and we all know so well that (after 3 years old) human beings can't easily be changed. A sad thing is that once they are no longer dependent on you they'd leave you to find someone they think more compatible to them. This phenomenon happens quite offen.

My co worker ( a handsome rich guy with tremendous Kungfu fighting skill :) ) got married to a beautiful HaNoi actress and it was like hell with his marriage. He almost quit but only because she finally realized how much love he had for her that she finally compromised and agreed with him so they now still live together. This is rare, though.

Sam5935
11-08-05, 16:34
Hey!

I am considering three weeks in Vietnam. How hard is it to meet women inthe bars,clubs,etc? I am a 32 year-old,tall,blonde,very fit American, fo what that's worth. For example, in Thailand, even though there is an active pro scene, I've always been able to meet non-pros, and "date" them for a while with no money exchange or anything like that(don't get me wrong, I'm not looking down on the pro scene, it can be fun too!)Is this possible in Vietnam? Thanks!

S-

Paul76
11-08-05, 20:25
Hi friends,

Just a curiosity.

How many expat people live in Vietnam?

Foreigner asian people and western people.

Paulo

Fw190
11-14-05, 14:24
Interesting sociological comments on Westerners who go to Asia to date locals. It's probably non-productive to describe those Westerners as "losers" in their own society. However, based on my own observations being brought up and also working in Hawaii, I would say that these foreigners are "different":

1. The Westerners looking to date/marry Asian women are probably looking for a certain kind of feminine behavior (gentle, submissive, docile, whatever) that they won't find in the West. And likewise probably most Western women wouldn't date these kinds of guys anyway. In other words, these guys are sort of "misfits" in the West when it comes to relationships (not necessarily losers).

2. The phenomenon of Asian guys dating mostly white women is sometimes due to the Asian guys wanting to show off by having a "trophy" woman. They want to stand out by dating a tall blonde, or whatever, and proving that they are something special. This was a common thing to see in Hawaii. Many of those interracial pairings wound up as great marriages (in a very supportive multiracial society like Hawaii). But others were simply a (usually wealthy) Asian guy showing off. (Don't flame me for my observation; I'm Asian-American myself). :-)



James Tran - I have read some of your recent posts and most of them are out of whack. I don't share the same view point as you do but I respect your opinion. But to assume that Westerners and Viet Kieus who go back to Vietnam to get marry are losers in there own country is just wrong. I have a caucasian friend who is handsome and a CEO of a major fashion label. He will only date asian women. He goes back to Vietnam every December just to hang out and hook up with Vietnamese women. I have another friend who is Vietnamese but will only date white women. He also goes back every December but will only go to Pham Ngu Lao to pick up white women who are here on vacation or work. That goes to show that you can't assume everyone is like you.

Ashton
11-22-05, 04:15
Reading all these posts brings back some memories and thoughts. First, just a random breeze through most of the posts here - pros and cons of dating the women there - says to me: "Having a successful long term relationship with a Vietnamese woman is damn near impossible." I had actually considered moving there after a couple of enjoyable trips through the country and falling in love with the people and the beautiful women. I'm glad a checked this out first because I see that it would be very stupid to assume that I could hop over there and fall in love with the girl of my dreams. Deep inside I guess I already knew that.

A couple of years ago I was flying Korean Air into HCMC and asked for emergency exit seating for the sole purpose of sitting across from the stewardesses. (as I always do). The extremely petite, cute, nee hot, girl sitting across from me was Vietnamese. She was very forward, and before I got off the plane I had her number (without even asking for it) in HCMC and in Seoul where she lived in a hotel while working for KAL.

She was back in Seoul so fast we didn't have time to meet in HCMC but not long after I got back to Korea we had a date.

I fell in love right away and stupidly. Assuming she couldn't resist an American professor I gushed way too much about looking for a girlfriend and wondering if it could be her. I thought she felt the same way.

Then got her back to my extremely tiny apt. where I think she might have made her decision that I wasn't rich enough for her.

Here's where is gets weird and confusing. She hopped straight on the bed, we started making out and she asked me if I wanted her. I said yes, of course. But I stupidly said, but I can wait because I don't want to ruin my chances with you.

I tried to grope a little, testing her but kept stopping my hands. I had no idea what to do. Be forceful and scare off this little gal that I really wanted to keep seeing. Or go for it and probably be rewarded with no small amount of pleasure.

In the end I was too much the gentleman and she went home without any action. Looking back I reckon she wanted one of two things. First she was checking to see how well off I was. Failing that, I reckon she was looking for a good romp in the hay but she was playing the Miss Good Girl Game. I should have tried harder. Still regret that to this day. {Ripley's Believe it or Not: On the way back to Korea- same trip- on VIETNAM Air, same seating arrangement, I met a Korean stewardess - an 8 on my scale. The exact same thing happened. The girl asked for MY phone number. We met in Seoul a week or so later. Got her over to my apt. a couple of times but she was a little psycho and nothing panned out. I think we actually had a small tiff about something. But what are the odds? A Vietnamese on KAL and a Korean on VAL on the same trip. I wonder where the hell that mojo I was carrying then has gone}

Another tip for you hunters is this. Use immigration offices (perhaps not in Nam). In Korea it's like shooting lame ducks. Last year, I was getting my visa renewed in Korea and saw the cutest little girl. She looked rich too and well dressed. Very styling. I looked over her shoulder as we waited our turns and saw be her passport that she was Vietnamese. I finished right away and had to wait an hour for her to walk out. Yes, creepy, I know. Then I lost her. I spent 20 minutes looking for her around the building then gave up and walked the ten minutes back to the subway.

When I went onto the platform, strangly she was sitting on a bench. I know at least 1 train had left the station while she was sitting there. I asked her to join me for a coffee and she agreed. She said she worked in a factory here, made great money to send back home. She was very smart but her English was almost unintelligable because of her poor pronunciation. Said she had a Korean boyfriend. Months went by when she suddenly showed up on my yahoo msngr. We started video chatting quite often (her English typing and reading skills were fine) and she said she didn't have a boyfriend anymore. But she was scared to meet me because of her English. We chatted for a month or so then one day she calls me and wants to meet because her sister, a stewardess was visiting and she could speak English. This gave her the courage I guess, and a translator. Of all the nights, I had something going that couldn't be canceled so I didn't make it and her sister was gone the next day.

Not long after she moved back to HCMC. I still see her on yahoo occassionally but I'm looking forward to my next renewal. In fact I may just go hang out there. There are always at least a few hot Japanese, Russian, Thai, Filppina girls.

Silly Puppy
11-22-05, 16:09
Aston, I think you just had a taste of what Vietnamese girls in "high class" look like. Think about this and forgive me if I am too straight forward.

To get into airline industry, especially to become an international flight attendant the girls must have couple things: they are from influential and rich family, very beautiful, educated, and/or "fucked" their way to get this job. This job is not easy to get because it gives them the chance to meet rich people as well as to bring valuable goods back to the country for resale. So in your case with the Viet girl it is exactly what you suspected; she thought you were a gold mine, period!

Now, let me tell you a story what happened when I went back to VN to work the 1st time a few years ago. On the way to Hanoi from Hongkong I met this exceptionally beautiful girl who was only 21 y/o. This Hanoi girl is extremely beautiful, close to Joan Chen quality but much younger. I noticed the airplane had a whole bank of vacant seats next to mine so I wanted to use them for resting during the 2 hr flight. She told me (in English) these seats were for emergency thus not available. After finding out I was a Viet expat she sat on one of these seats and started checking me out. We talked for the whole flight time. She knew I was working for a big company. I told her I was on business trip for couple days and she suggested she'd love to show me around. This was kind of strange for a Viet girl who is supposed to be submissive. But I didn't take the opportunity as I knew I'd fall in love with this beauty almost immediately. I still think about this incidence and wonder if I was stupid or not for not taking the chance, but somehow my logical mind tells me I did the right thing. I can go there and fuck my brain out on some pro's but I just can't bring myself to fall in love with some locals. I just don't want to risk my mariage on some young beautiful girls.

If anyone wants to use your status as 'presumably rich" Westerner to take advantage of these sophisticated ladies, you might have a chance on international flights. Just remember, don't expect great fanfare and fireworks.

Fw190
11-23-05, 02:06
The two posts by James Tran and Ashton during the last couple of days are among the best posts I've ever read in this forum. Well written, very thoughtful, full of insight, and culturally aware. Proves that we're not all mindless f---ing machines. :-)


Aston, I think you just had a taste of what Vietnamese girls in "high class" look like. Think about this and forgive me if I am too straight forward.

To get into airline industry, especially to become an international flight attendant the girls must have couple things: they are from influential and rich family, very beautiful, educated, and/or "fucked" their way to get this job. This job is not easy to get because it gives them the chance to meet rich people as well as to bring valuable goods back to the country for resale. So in your case with the Viet girl it is exactly what you suspected; she thought you were a gold mine, period!

Now, let me tell you a story what happened when I went back to VN to work the 1st time a few years ago. On the way to Hanoi from Hongkong I met this exceptionally beautiful girl who was only 21 y/o. This Hanoi girl is extremely beautiful, close to Joan Chen quality but much younger. I noticed the airplane had a whole bank of vacant seats next to mine so I wanted to use them for resting during the 2 hr flight. She told me (in English) these seats were for emergency thus not available. After finding out I was a Viet expat she sat on one of these seats and started checking me out. We talked for the whole flight time. She knew I was working for a big company. I told her I was on business trip for couple days and she suggested she'd love to show me around. This was kind of strange for a Viet girl who is supposed to be submissive. But I didn't take the opportunity as I knew I'd fall in love with this beauty almost immediately. I still think about this incidence and wonder if I was stupid or not for not taking the chance, but somehow my logical mind tells me I did the right thing. I can go there and fuck my brain out on some pro's but I just can't bring myself to fall in love with some locals. I just don't want to risk my mariage on some young beautiful girls.

If anyone wants to use your status as 'presumably rich" Westerner to take advantage of these sophisticated ladies, you might have a chance on international flights. Just remember, don't expect great fanfare and fireworks.

Ashton
11-24-05, 09:11
Thanks for the compliment FW and James don't worry about being too forward. I thought you made a good point. Although I am certainly aware of class differences in Vietnam I never really gave too much thought to the stewardess' status. I think that while she is probably from a privelged background, she's still asking the same thing as girls in the bars: "Can I marry up and out?" She's just got what it takes to be more demanding. Next time I'll put on more airs to give myself a fighting chance if I meet a girl like her. She was hot. My last Korean girlfriend tore her pics but managed to salvage a snippet of her face.

Drjoker69
11-27-05, 12:58
James Tran,

The real losers are the ones who marry American girls IMHO. In America, girls do things out of love. In a marriage that can last decades, love may come and go. In relationships based on love, you're SOL when it goes. Usually, the relataionship ends. That's why 60% of all American marriages end in divorce.

You are very right in assuming that religious people are more decent because they have morality. In America, surveys show that the only happily married people are Hispanics and religious people. As an overgeneralization, city folk are less religious and more money driven. Country folk are more religious and simpler. Money still matters to them, but they have more reasonable expectations.

Yes, you're right, the girls do change once they get to the US. However, I don't plan on bringing her back. I plan on living in Thailand and/or Belarus afterwards. However, bringing her back to he US is NOT necessarily a disaster. You just have to prevent her from assimilating the nasty American Woman syndrome ( http://www.nomarriage.com/ ). I would learn Vietnamese and refuse to speak English with her. Then, introduce her to your Vietnamese friends (make some if you don't have any) and be sure to show her around the Vietnamese part of town (Viet supermarkets, bookstores, etc). Marrying someone older helps as older people are set in their ways and find it harder to change. If you marry someone young, be sure to let her know that you don't plan on going to the USA (even if you do) and ask her if she likes kids. If she says "yes", tell her that you want kids right after marriage (even if you don't). If she says she wants you to support her through college in America, run like hell.

By the way, her supporting her whole family in Vietnam is not a bad thing. This means that she has a very high sense of duty. She doesn't have to support them, but she does because it is her duty. American girls have relationships based on love while Viet girls have relationships based on duty. This means that even if her love comes and goes in a marriage lasting decades, she will still be good to you and have sex with you because it is her duty as your wife. Your duty, however, is to support her family back home. Many of my fellow Americans that have not lived in Asia, but just vacationed, misunderstand this and view the support of her extended family as a negative. It is actually a positive. The average wage (correct me if I'm wrong) is about $120-250 USD in Vietnam. If you're making an average American wage of $5k a month, this shouldn't be such a burden. It could work for you. If you were to get into a fight with her and she calls her family in Vietnam for advice. If you and her were to get into a fight and you didn't cheat on her, gamble, do drugs, beat her, or get drunk, then rest assured her family will keep the monthly check in mind and tell her to shut up and bear it. The prenuptial agreement and monthly check are your insurance policy that you will have a happy marriage. Just treat her nice, be a gentleman, and prevent her from assimilating. Then, you'll do fine.

I plan on going to Can Tho to find some country gals from the neighboring farms. A nice religious Buddhist girl would be nice. I am not Buddhist, but they are very tolerant of other religions. Rosetta Stone is a software package that makes it very easy to learn foreign languages. It uses pictures and games to make it fun. No memorizing big lists of vocabulary and grammar. I plan on learning some Vietnamese before I get there. The only girls with a higher sense of duty on this planet are middle eastern girls, but you have to be Muslim (I'm not) and be plugged into their community to marry a Muslim girl.

Here's what I gather from my extensive research on the internet;
1. Vietnamese girls like to save money. I read a post saying that some guy hired a Viet maid in HCMC. The maid was so thrifty that she washed his disposable paper cone coffee filters so that they can be reused!
2. They're very submissive when it comes to sex. They view this as their duty as your wife.
3. They will allow you to be the man and wear the pants. You're in charge.
4. James Tran is correct. The economy is improving there. The girls no longer starve as long as they work. However, life is boring there. They do the same stuff in the factory 12 hrs a day, 6 days a week. Country girls have to do some really backbreaking labor in the rice paddies. Therefore, they will appreciate a fun guy.
5. About half of the girls there are mercenary and will do anything to get out of Vietnam. You want to avoid these. The other half are really decent girls. Just look for the simple country folk who are religious Buddhists and you'll do fine. In the end, these girls just want to love and be loved.
6. All the Vietnamese that I've ever known were either extremely intelligent and/or worked extremely hard. The national spelling bee was won one year by a Viet chick who had only been speaking English for 2 years!
7. I also like the more feminine and thinner boned physiques of Viet girls. The Khmer girls tend to be thicker boned and look short and stocky. I really like these petite, thin Viet girls.

Later, alligators,
Drjoker69 .


Whisper1: If you come to VN to work then it is a different situation. If this is a special case then you should understand I can't and will never be able cover every possible case in my generalization. In my personal experience I've never known anyone in the Viet community where I live go back to VN to work. But I've known plenty of losers who could not get a girl here go back there and bring back someone with them. If it is not 90% then it still is a high percentage.

But why do you worry too much about it? There is a common Vietnamese saying "co tat giat minh" which literally means "One is worried if one has a bad habit." You should be proud of what you are and take my words as grains of salt if you don't belong to this mass exodus.

Couple things about Viet girls or men in Vietnam that I want to say. These people they have been trained under a conmunist system which teaches them achieve-anything-at-any-cost principle in the last 30 years. There is very little teaching about fairness, decency, good citizenship, morality, etc like we under Western world have been learning. Thirty years ago their fathers and mothers used this priciple to drive the American out and won the Vietnam war. They achieved the goal by sacrificing millions of innocent people. Now their children are learning the new meaning about money and that is all they care. They look at you as you are a gold mine for them to excavate. Exceptions are religous people who still have learned good dogmatics from their own religions. So I'd recommend whoever wants a good and lasting marriage/relationship go looking for these people. Otherwise there is a high percentage that you are destined to a disastrous end.

BTW, you mentioned "The economy is booming, Vietnam is getting ready to enter into the WTO. Alot of companies are investing in this country. The way you and the girls in America think is simply ignorant."
Everyone knows Vietnamese economy is booming. My company is also investing in VN. But this has nothing to do with the fact that many losers are going back to VN to get married because fierce competition in US gives them little chance and thus drives them out to look for easier opportunity. Or they may think US girls are too Americanized thus they want somebody more submissive. This is very ignorant. They forget that once they bring the girls back here it will take a long and difficult effort to work differences out. Either he or she must change and we all know so well that (after 3 years old) human beings can't easily be changed. A sad thing is that once they are no longer dependent on you they'd leave you to find someone they think more compatible to them. This phenomenon happens quite offen.

My co worker ( a handsome rich guy with tremendous Kungfu fighting skill :) ) got married to a beautiful HaNoi actress and it was like hell with his marriage. He almost quit but only because she finally realized how much love he had for her that she finally compromised and agreed with him so they now still live together. This is rare, though.

Drjoker69
11-27-05, 23:47
Many westerners view this chaperoned dates and no sex before marriage bit as a negative. However, it could be a positive if you have lived (more than just being a tourist) in Asia for awhile. A random blood test in a New York city hospital in the 50's (Kinsey? Masters & Johnson? I forgot which) found that approximately 30% of the babies born to the mother has a father with a blood type that is genetically impossible. With modern DNA testing and the degradation of morality since the 50's, this percentage is probably 50%. In other words, if you have an American Woman (AW) for a wife, there is at least a 50% chance that she will cheat on you. If a woman sleeps around before she got married, what makes you think that a leopard will change her spots after you get married? In contrast, a traditional Viet girl fresh off the rice paddies, will generally not have sex before marriage. She will therefore be less likely to have sex with other men after marriage. The only problem is, will she like/enjoy sex after marriage? There's really no way to tell. She will have consistent sex with you after marriage because she views it as her duty to her husband, but if she doesn't enjoy it and it shows, what's a guy supposed to do? This is where Viet girls could be a mixed bag. Given the choice of either having a girl who has a 50% chance of cheating on me or a girl that has a 50% chance of faking having a good time every time I have sex, I'd rather risk the latter, IMHO. Just keep in mind that nothing's ever all positive. There's always some negative with the positive.

In my personal experience, I've found that even die hard, "No sex before marriage gals," are willing to give BBBJ's since that doesn't rupture the hymen and break their virginity. In such a sexually repressed society, these gals are very curious about sex. They want to learn and experience it but they want to remain verifiable virgins before marriage. I've had two girls ask me to get naked and teach them all about sex without actually penetrating their p*ssy. I would get into various positions and show them how to do it without actually doing it. Then, I'd pleasure them with DATY and then they'd be obliged to return the favor with a BBBJ. Kinda weird, but, hey, it's a freebie, they're clean, and it's fun, so who cares?

Later, alligators,

Drjoker69.


[The man's questions continue]

"...how is the dating in vietnam?

If it is a traditional girl, dating cam be very frustrating for a Westerner. A younger brother or sister will usually go along with the two of you. You will almost never be alone, at least in the early stages. If you understand Vietnamese culture, you will know that you don't just marry a Vietnamese girl--you marry her family, and they will be a part of your life forever. If you shut them off, you will have a very unhappy wife, and that means a miserable life for yourself.

After marriage, you will be asked to help support your wife's family in Vietnam. This shouldn't require a huge amount of money, but you need to be mentally prepared to take on that responsibility. Also, it would be an unusual wife who didn't expect to go back to Vietnam every couple of years to visit her family. These trips can be VERY expensive involving several thousand dollars in cash gifts. If this isn't in your comfort zone, then be sure your wife knows your intentions before you ever get married.

"...and other thing what is the minimum and medium wages in vietnam ? because i did not understand when they talked about that

Things are changing rapidly in Vietnam, especially in the cities. Nevertheless, a city girl with a normal job still makes less than $100/month. In the countryside, the average earnings are less than $400 per year (for the entire family).

Once again, I must say that if you are sincerely interested in finding a "soul mate" rather than simple chattel, then you need to make a big investment. She will not just fall into your lap in Vietnam any more than in your own country. Learn the language. Go there. Develop a love for the food and the culture.

Please understand that these are my own views, the views of a Western guy who has spent a lot of time in Asia, particularly in Vietnam, and who spends more time in the Vietnamese (Viet kieu) society in the United States than in American society. But this is still a Western point of view, and the Vietnamese might have a very different oinion about these things.

Look closely at the things various Vietnamese have written on this forum. They offer a some revealing glimpses into the Vietnamese frame of mind. This is the culture that you aspire to be a part of.

Ashton
12-03-05, 04:13
After reading your posts Dr. Joker, I think I know who you are. You're really Dr. Phil.

That was some good stuff. There are some good points in there worthy of remembering. Now I have half a mind to give Nam another shot.

LexLuther
12-03-05, 15:25
DrJoker69,

Sorry to explode your theory. However Vietnam is most certainly not a sexually repressed society. The family does try to protect the girl, that's true. But if you understand Vietnamese (which Lex does) and listen to these people (especially country people), sex is frequently present as a topic in their conversation. Vietnamese girls usually like sex. The guys like sex too.

Girls are protected because the Vietnamese people understand human nature and that if a guy and a girl go out unchaperoned, something is likely to happen that may not be good for the girl and her future.

Lex

DJ Monger
02-02-06, 06:31
This is an interesting discussion about dating/marrying non-pros in vietnam We were having a similar discussion on the thailand board, where the consensus was that marrying a thai girl is feasable if a) you take the time to live in thailand for a while, learn the language etc b) you're very careful about who you marry (ie. not not NOT a bar girl) and c) you stay in thailand - thai people love thailand and might not neccisarily be happy somewhere cold and un-sanug like europe or america. it was suggested to me that vietnamese girl might have all the advantages of a thai girl, but would be more keen to leave her home country.

Anyway i'm thinking something similar to Drjoker - I'd like to come spend some time in vietnam, somewhere a bit country and off the beaten track, and stay for a while (i was thinking 3 months but now i'm thinking 6 would be more plausible) with the intention of finding a bride. nothing arranged per say, i'd probably get a job teaching english part time and use that as an "in" to meet down-to-earth local girls. chaperoned dates with virginal girls would be right up my alley for this purpose. I've found that in indonesia at least, girls that will have sex with you before marriage, or at least a long slow dating process, are often a bit dodgy.

i live in asia and would be bringing my hypothetical bride to bali rather than the states, at least at first (who knows where i'll be in 5-10 years) Anyway it's just an idea i've been considering and would be happy to hear more discussion along these lines. one thing i was wondering was if a full-on engagement (with expensive ceremony, family and priest involved, ring etc) might be enough to get a virginal country girl to spend, say, a year with me as a sort of "test run" - obviously it's a big commitment not just for me but for the girl, leaving the country and living with a farang etc... or would that even be neccesary? in thailand i dont think it would be, in indonesia it would depend on the circumstance.

and btw just for the record i'm pretty sure i dont qualify as a loser! i got lots of dates back when i lived in america - i was briefly married to a pleasant girl with a pretty face and a body like a playboy bunny, and had been dating an attractive girl 12 years younger than me for like 3 years when i left the states for asia. and i was making good money there too, lots of friends, in decent shape, etc, all in all pretty non-loser imho. my dating experiences weren't even so bad really. I just dont trust the statistics of american marriages (50% divorce rate) And compared to the kind of women i've been dating in asia I can clearly see that being married to a nice asian girl, despite the difficulties involved, would probably be infinitely preferable to marrying an american woman.

for example, that attractive young woman i left behind has gained like 100 pounds since the last time i saw her. and shes only 25, she hasn't even had a kid yet! she wasnt much into housework or cooking either. and my ex-wife went on to divorce her next husband (and father of 2 children by her) for being "emotionally distant". emotionally distant? what the fuck does that even *mean*? give me a nice asian country girl any day.

Horn Dog 2
02-02-06, 07:30
Divorces do happen in Vietnam. The North American woman are more into the 50/50 relationship. You cook or clean one-half of the time. You divorce her, she leaves with 50%. The Asian woman will cook for you and your male friends and leave you all to eat and drink. They will do all the housework and provide you with love when you need it. You would have to com***icate-learn Vietnamense-respect the culture and her family. Treat her good and you will be rewarded. Beware of the ones who want to get marry and leave the country. Good Luck Monger, the Monger going to be settling down?


This is an interesting discussion about dating/marrying non-pros in vietnam We were having a similar discussion on the thailand board, where the consensus was that marrying a thai girl is feasable if a) you take the time to live in thailand for a while, learn the language etc b) you're very careful about who you marry (ie. Not not NOT a bar girl) and c) you stay in thailand - thai people love thailand and might not neccisarily be happy somewhere cold and un-sanug like europe or america. It was suggested to me that vietnamese girl might have all the advantages of a thai girl, but would be more keen to leave her home country.

Anyway I'm thinking something similar to Drjoker - I'd like to come spend some time in vietnam, somewhere a bit country and off the beaten track, and stay for a while (I was thinking 3 months but now I'm thinking 6 would be more plausible) with the intention of finding a bride. Nothing arranged per say, I'd probably get a job teaching english part time and use that as an "in" to meet down-to-earth local girls. Chaperoned dates with virginal girls would be right up my alley for this purpose. I've found that in indonesia at least, girls that will have sex with you before marriage, or at least a long slow dating process, are often a bit dodgy.

I live in asia and would be bringing my hypothetical bride to bali rather than the states, at least at first (who knows where I'll be in 5-10 years) Anyway it's just an idea I've been considering and would be happy to hear more discussion along these lines. One thing I was wondering was if a full-on engagement (with expensive ceremony, family and priest involved, ring etc) might be enough to get a virginal country girl to spend, say, a year with me as a sort of "test run" - obviously it's a big commitment not just for me but for the girl, leaving the country and living with a farang etc. Or would that even be neccesary? in thailand I don't think it would be, in indonesia it would depend on the circumstance.

And btw just for the record I'm pretty sure I don't qualify as a loser! I got lots of dates back when I lived in america - I was briefly married to a pleasant girl with a pretty face and a body like a playboy bunny, and had been dating an attractive girl 12 years younger than me for like 3 years when I left the states for asia. And I was making good money there too, lots of friends, in decent shape, etc, all in all pretty non-loser imho. My dating experiences weren't even so bad really. I just don't trust the statistics of american marriages (50% divorce rate) And compared to the kind of women I've been dating in asia I can clearly see that being married to a nice asian girl, despite the difficulties involved, would probably be infinitely preferable to marrying an american woman.

For example, that attractive young woman I left behind has gained like 100 pounds since the last time I saw her. And shes only 25, she hasn't even had a kid yet! she wasnt much into housework or cooking either. And my ex-wife went on to divorce her next husband (and father of 2 children by her) for being "emotionally distant". Emotionally distant? what the fuck does that even *mean*? give me a nice asian country girl any day.

Hebe Joe
02-02-06, 11:54
she wasnt much into housework or cooking either. And my ex-wife went on to divorce her next husband (and father of 2 children by her) for being "emotionally distant". Emotionally distant? what the fuck does that even *mean*? give me a nice asian country girl any day.

THE HUSBAND STORE

A store that sells husbands has just opened in New York City, where a woman may go to choose a husband. Among the instructions at the entrance is a description of how the store operates. "You may visit the store ONLY ONCE! There are six floors and the attributes of the men increase as the shopper ascends the flights.

There is, however, a catch: you may choose any man from a particular floor, or you may choose to go up a floor, but you cannot go back down except to exit the building! "

So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband.

On the first floor the sign on the door reads: Floor 1 - These men have jobs.

The second floor sign reads: Floor 2 - These men have jobs and love kids.

The third floor sign reads: Floor 3 - These men have jobs, love kids,

And are extremely good looking. "Wow, " she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.

She goes to the fourth floor and the sign reads: Floor 4 - These men have jobs, love kids, are drop-dead good looking and help with the housework.

"Oh, mercy me! " she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it! "

Still, she goes to the fifth floor and sign reads: Floor 5 - These men have jobs, love kids, are drop-dead gorgeous, help with the housework, and have a strong romantic streak.

She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the sixth floor and the sign reads: Floor 6 - You are visitor 31, 456, 012 to this floor. There are no men on this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please.

Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.

EDITOR'S SUGGESTION: This is interesting, but you might consider re-posting it under the Jokes & Humorous Stories topic in the Special Interests section of the Forum where it will benefit the Forum Members who are specifically looking for this type of information. Thanks!

LexLuther
02-02-06, 13:44
DJ Monger,

Lex is admittedly longer in the tooth than you. However he believes that his experience from the late 60's/early 70's may hold some truth for you and others like you.

Lex was a young Army Officer working in G2 (Corp level Intelligence) in a beautiful VN coastal city. There were any number of beautiful, educated, single girls working in our HQ who would have met all of Lex's needs. Problem was then and still is now that girls of this class (sorry but VN is still not a classless society) have no truck with non-Viet's. The reasons for this are complex and would probably not make sense to you. Many aspects of Vietnamese culture will probably not make sense to you.

Lex is sure you believe yourself to be a good looking, educated, stand-up guy and by American standards, you very well may be. What you don't realize is that Vietnam is not America. The upper classes in Vietnam have roots which extend back to Confucian times. Even in a com***ist country such as Vietnam, the upper class believes itself to be (and may actually be) something akin to royalty. They are "mandarins." They have (or once had) money. They now have education, status, and pride. All this in a country where the vast majority of the population can barely read, marry and pro-create as early as possible, and will do anything to stay alive. To this class of people, anyone having a relationship with someone not of their ilk is just a *****. They will never tell you this. They are far too polite for that. But that's what they think. If a young girl from this class were to follow her desires and take up with a guy like you, she would be disowned.

Following her own desires and ignoring those of her family may be something that an American girl will do, but it's not something that a high born Viet girl will do. Therefore, what you are left with is the dregs of that society. Remember what Lex said about members of Vietnam's great unwashed masses being willing to do anything to sustain life. So if you were to marry one of these girls (beautiful, subservient, etc) you would eventually discover that at least part of her motivation for marrying you was to escape that culture that she had come from.

Lex was there. He did that. And like most of these marriages, it turned out for the worst. He won't bore you here with the sad details. But take it from someone who learned it the hard way. Stop dreaming. Enjoy the girls for what they have to offer. Be a gentleman. Be kind. Be nice. But keep your head out of your arse and don't entertain thoughts of marriage. You'll end up broken hearted.

LexLuther

Co Van My
02-02-06, 17:19
DJ Monger:

It sounds like Lex Luther's experience and advice are carbon copies of my own. When you take a girl out of Vietnam (especially to the U.S. or Europe), she soon will not be the girl you married. They change rapidly. Part of it stems simply from her adjusting to a different culture, but part of it stems from her separation from her family.

You can certainly improve your chances by investing the time getting to know her in Vietnam, but I still think the cards are stacked against you.

DJ Monger
02-03-06, 04:02
Hmmm. I dont neccesarily disbelieve you. But I know in thailand (which is a different country, but maybe a bit similar to vietnam) many upper class girls are quite happy to catch a foriegn man, even though they too consider themselves better than the rest of the thai population, and also consider thai culture infinitely superior to that of the stupid farangs. It's a weird dichotomy, but still holds true in many cases. And if you manage to catch yourself the right kind of thai girl, she is potentially a very good partner, even if some part of her holds you in contempt! But of course thailand isn't vietnam, so maybe you're right.

But i'm not neccesarily looking for a high class girl - i suppose it mostly depends on who i meet once i get there, but i'm definitely considering a smart diamond-in-the-rough kinda small town girl whos keen on seeing the rest of the world - that's sort of always been my type, even in america. If she's attracted to me in part because i seem rich, well, i think this is pretty much a universal desire for all women, western or asian. And buying into it is no more a recipie for disaster than marrying a western girl who has a good career and is perfectly capable of supporting herself, thank you very much.

Anyway i'm not neccesarily contradicting you, you could very well be right. It's a bit of a fantasy, and i've had asian girl fantasies blow up in my face before - i've certainly had some bad experiences dating indonesian women, it's one of the reasons i'm looking elsewhere. However, with 5 years of experience living in asia, and watching a lot of marriages here (both local/local and local/foreign), this seems like a better game plan than meeting a bar girl, fucking her for a few years, then marrying her. Or marrying any american girl, period.

What about the rest of you guys? I'm sure there must be some expats living in vietnam reading this - does anyone else have any experience with a mixed viet/western marriage? Or maybe watched their friends go through the process? How about just long term dating? I'd be really curious to hear anyone/everyones experiences, 1st or 2nd hand - so far we've just got two big nos on the issue...

Unlucky Eddie
02-03-06, 10:19
Once you take a Viet girl out of Vietnam give her 1-4 years and she will be like any American girl. The difference between living in Vietnam and the US is freedom. Once the girl obtains this, she no longer needs you. If she is a looker you can expect a shit load of Viets in the US (some that are really rich) to go after her! Sorry to say this but the risk of you getting a divorce is much much higher if you marry a Viet girl in Vietnam than if you marry some1 who is already living in the US. Theres a saying in Vietnamese "no money no love!"

BTW, it's even worse if you marry a north Vietnamese (sort of like a Shanghainese for all you Asians out there).

While I agree that you can get better looking women (or whatever you are after) if you go to Vietnam, you have to be realistic about it. The same rule applies in Vietnam as in the US. What do you have to offer?

IMHO if you can't get the same quality of women in the US, your success rate of obtaining the same thing in Vietnam and making it last is zero.

LexLuther
02-03-06, 14:50
DJ Monger,

What Lex said is based not only on his own experience, but on seeing any number of marriages between Americans and SEA girls go T/U over the years. Personally, Lex has tried marriage to a Viet girl and a Korean girl. Both ended badly.

If you must have an asian girl (and despite his negative experiences Lex still prefers Asian women to western ones), why not try one from mainland China. Mainland China is a country in which there are an astronomical number of eligible, beautiful, intelligent, educated women who are eager to escape the dullness of life in a com***ist country. On the positive side, they are the product of a culture with three generations of living in a classless society. At least it is a society which has gotten as close to being classless as any on earth. Therefore they don't seem to have the hangups that girls from VN have concerning westerners. I believe they admire westerners in many ways.

One problem that will exist with any woman from a foreign culture is the old saw about the grass being greener. When any of us goes to a foreign land, we have expectations and preconceptions that are inevitably shattered given enough time in the new culture. So a woman comes here and as she learns what America is really about, she may become depressed, disillusioned, unhappy.

But the Chinese seem to be very resilient. In many ways, life in America is so much better than life in China, that it will always retain some luster for a Chinese girl. The issue, however, will always be that there are familial relationships as well as ones with friends that will always be missed. Look around you at how much the girls (wherever you are) enjoy the marketplace, prancing about in their finery, being on display for an admiring audience of like-minded fellow travelers, etc. Then ask yourself how happy a girl will be in an American suburb where she has few friends who speak her language or think as she does.

Sorry to be so negative, but someone needs to remind you to be realistic. In any case, if you are careful and thoughtful then whatever you do will be the right thing. Just prepare yourself for disappointment. This is part of life. Good luck with whatever you wind up doing.

The last issue I'd like to address is the difference between Thai and VN culture. This part of the world is a very interesting one. Over a period of hundreds (if not thousands) of years, two great cultures collided here much like great tectonic plates. These were, of course, the Indian and Chinese cultures. In VN you see the remnants and artifacts of at least one thousand years of domination by the Chinese. VN was a colony of China long before it became a French colony. This is the reason that we still see a class which has its roots in the Confucian system of government and learning.

In Thailand, the dominant culture was that of India. This is where buddhism came from even in the case of VN. But the interesting thing about Thailand is that it was never a colony of anyone. Why that is, I'm not sure. But the one certain thing is that this lack of having been colonized seems to have left the Thais with an incredible openness, especially toward foreigners. To be sure, Thais (like all people) have certain prejudices against foreigners. But they are not prone to xenophobia as are the Viets. With a VN, you never know exactly what they are thinking. Not so true with Thais.

No matter whom you are married to, it's important to be able to understand each other's thoughts, both superficial and subterranian.

On a more positive note however, I should point out that the internet may have made much of what Lex experienced irrelevant. Thankfully, the internet has come to places as far flung and poor as VN, China, and Thailand. A girl from almost anywhere can now conduct email relationships with friends and family almost anywhere else. She can talk for hours using the internet, exchange photos, even play games. So this may make interracial and inter-cultural marriages more viable. Only time will tell. This would be an interesting topic for someone's doctoral thesis.

Lex

DJ Monger
02-04-06, 07:29
What Lex said is based not only on his own experience, but on seeing any number of marriages between Americans and SEA girls go T/U over the years.


Your experiences may be different, but almost every mixed marriage i've seen here in asia was between a mongering westerner with a lot of money and a bargirl of some brand or another - surely a recipie for disaster.

and remember, the sucess rate of marriages between 2 americans couldn't possibly be worse!



Sorry to be so negative, but someone needs to remind you to be realistic.


Thats what i'm here for! But in my defense, i've been living in asia for a few years now, and the idea of finding a country girl from vietnam, specifically for marriage, and bringing her to bali, is an idea i've come up with in response to all the mistakes i've seen western guys make with asian girls already, as well as from advice i've recieved from my good asian friends.


some clarification on my thinking:


1)my good asian friends assure me the best way to find a wife that will treat you well is to find someone still young, from the country, who's never had a serious boyfriend before, and arrange the marriage through the family. anyone you fuck around with before marriage is dodgy by definition. which i've found to be fairly true.


2)indonesian girls often divorce their husbands knowing full well who gets the mansion in indonesia - them, because they're indonesian and the courts will always side with them. if she's vietnamese but living with me in indonesia, the house is in my name not hers, and she'd be hard pressed to get much out of a divorce. if we move to america, a) i'd get a prenup before tieing the knot, and b)she'd probably be fairly aware that, if presented with horrific divorce terms, i'd just dissapear in SEAsia, never to be heard from again.

DJ Monger
02-04-06, 07:30
Part of it stems simply from her adjusting to a different culture, but part of it stems from her separation from her family.


I've actually considered bringing an unmarried aunt, or even her parents, along with her to bali to help alleviate this. though this would obviously bring problems of its own, and strikes me as possibly one of my dumber bright ideas.

DJ Monger
02-04-06, 07:32
Once you take a Viet girl out of Vietnam give her 1-4 years and she will be like any American girl. The difference between living in Vietnam and the US is freedom. Once the girl obtains this, she no longer needs you.


Ok, fair enough - this was a concern of mine. but i sort of thought that even after moving to america they would retain a certain amount of the culture they grew up in. for example, after 5 years in asia, although i'm much more familiar and comfortable with the local culture, i still think like an american. however you dont seem to be the only person suggesting this, so i guess i'd better pay attention!

But some counter arguments:

1 - I live in bali, not america. i may go back to america at some point, but that would be after at least a few years of her being married to me in asia, where the cultural norms are similar. though unfortunately the balinese probably fuck around on their spouses more than the french! (reason #1 i'm not looking for a wife here in bali)

2 - My friends who are happily married in the west tend to be married to asian immigrants, who despite being americanized seem to treat them infinitely better than american girls.

3 - It couldn't possibly be worse than marrying an white american girl. i'm sure i can match you horror story for horror story if you want to compare american/american marriages to american/asian...

4 - Prenup! sure she can leave me - if she wants to be a single mom with a shitty financial deal out of the divorce.



If she is a looker you can expect a shit load of Viets in the US (some that are really rich) to go after her!


Even if she's already had a kid or 2?



While I agree that you can get better looking women (or whatever you are after) if you go to Vietnam, you have to be realistic about it. The same rule applies in Vietnam as in the US. What do you have to offer?

IMHO if you can't get the same quality of women in the US, your success rate of obtaining the same thing in Vietnam and making it last is zero.


Like i said i do alright in the states - i'm still fairly young, in decent shape, and have been successful in my various careers as well as relationships. And I would plan to look for someone in the same ballpark as me lookswise, someone that would find me more or less as attractive as the next guy who hit on her.

i'm not out to get someone out of my league, or looking in asia out of desparation. what i'm looking for is someone from a culture with a clear outlook on gender roles (ie a girl who would be happy to stay home, cook, take care of the kids, manage the household, etc) that doesn't encourage infidelity and frivolous divorces.



Anyway feel free to keep the advice coming, it's very interesting reading. In some ways i feel like i have an answer to many if not all your obviously valid points, but at the same time i definitely hear what you all are saying! I'm not really after a clear answer here (as obvioiusly there is none) but just as much practical advice, tips, yea's verses nay's, etc. as i can get so i can make a well-informed decision. so keep your opinions coming, i've been paying close attention to all your responses and would really like hear more.

LexLuther
02-04-06, 15:20
DJ Monger,

One other thing which no one has mentioned here but which will most definitely be a factor in your life if you marry an asian women (especially a Viet) is that your new wife and her family are going to view you (to one extent or another) as their own private foreign aid source. In other words, they are going to expect cash infusions on a regular basis. The family will continually pressure the girl and she in turn will pressure you.

This notwithstanding the disdain which they will likely hold for you. And no matter how faithful you are in bestowing largesse upon them, you will never get any thanks (let alone acceptance) in return. It's really a bizarre phenomenon. Logic does not come into it at all.

Bringing a relative along is just going to make it worse. This person will always be in your wife's ear, reminding her of her filial responsibility to the rest of the family, pointing out your shortcomings and faults, telling her how much better she would have done in marrying within her culture. And believe old Lex, they will all be happy to point out the cultural differences.

However Lex can tell from your last post that you seem to have already made up your mind. No matter what anyone says, you believe you can overcome the drawbacks. Lex suspects you must be around 30 yo. Some things in life you must learn on your own.

With respect to a pre-nup, that makes no sense at all. You're not thinking this through. You talk about living toghether in asia for several years. This is probably going to require you to marry her in asia. Lex is no lawyer, but he is fairly sure that a pre-nuptual agreement executed in Vietnam (if such a thing is even possible) will hold no water back in the U.S.

And if you were to bring her back to the U.S. to marry her, then you have the problem that you have executed a pre-nup with a person who may later claim that she did not understand what she was signing.

But all of this begs the question that an asian woman (if she does understand what she is signing) is going to feel insulted about what you are asking her to agree to. Remember this is not some sophisticated, jaded, American wench. This is (presumably) a woman you wish to marry because she is a traditional asian woman who feels it her duty to serve and love you. She's going to expect you to treat her the same way.

Lex would like to close for now by quoting Rudyard Kipling who said:

"East is East and West is West. And never the twain shall meet."

This is a truth about which Lex has been reminded many times because of his youthful misconceptions about the possibility of finding marital bliss with an asian woman, a misconception of which Lex was long ago disabused.

Lex

One Wing Low
02-04-06, 17:33
Women anywhere would immediately change their attitudes the minute you sign the marriage certificate. Some are more ruthless and nasty than others. You would kill all the love and romance you had by signing marriage paper.

No women is worth a marriage certificate, especially the uneducated, skillless women with questionable backgrounds from prostitution-ridden areas in the 3rd world. I would never trust them more than having a few quick fucks with the prettiest and best mannered ones, while watching my wallet carefully.

It's true that the poor people anywhere, Asia, South America, Mexico, Midddle East, Eastern Europe ... are just rude, shameless, manipulative and ungrateful. They have no sense of dignity. They have a sense of false pride that prevents them from expressing any appreciation.

Lex is correct that foreigners are usually viewed as jerks who are stupid enough to marry the trash from their families, and the brides' families would continually abuse manipulate and control the women, in many different ways, to drain the cash from you, while withholding their appreciation and acceptance, to make you feel miserable that you haven't given them enough, and you should give them more, quickly.

I found that most people in 3rd world are not capable of genuine love due to the hardships in their harsh backgrounds. To them, everything is just a trade one thing for another. They would love to trade sex and fake love for the money from foreigners.

Women in the 3rd world are used to being treated like shit by their men, to be sexually exploited and beaten the shit out of for fun. They are stupid and gotten used to being unprincipled. Any man treating them with respect and decency would only be held in contempt, to be exploited and abused in return for all the abuses they've taken all their lives. It's a vicious circle that's hard to end. It would take a whole life time to undo the abuses and rehabilitate the persons from bad backgrounds, and rarely would there be successes.

You will be shocked to find out how agnostics, or people with certain faiths, even highly educated, well-off, high-society people in other countries, are just low lifes who would think nothing of lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating, abusing etc... without conscience or remorse. You would never be able to make them admit they are wrong, left alone correcting their own mistakes or bad habits. They just act stupid and don't give a shit about consequences.

On the average, American women are by far the straightest and most reasonable people to deal with, due to the fact that people in the US expect the truths and fairness. Make sure the persons come from good, loving families. You'd avoid a lot of problems.

I am sorry for these negative comments, but these are my own personal experiences and observations over many years, not quick theoretical treatments. However, there are always exceptions. Trust your instincts and advise any positive and negative development for the benefits of the rest of us.


DJ Monger,

One other thing which no one has mentioned here but which will most definitely be a factor in your life if you marry an asian women (especially a Viet) is that your new wife and her family are going to view you (to one extent or another) as their own private foreign aid source. In other words, they are going to expect cash infusions on a regular basis. The family will continually pressure the girl and she in turn will pressure you.

This notwithstanding the disdain which they will likely hold for you. And no matter how faithful you are in bestowing largesse upon them, you will never get any thanks (let alone acceptance) in return. It's really a bizarre phenomenon. Logic does not come into it at all.

Lex

NoCBJ4Me
02-04-06, 18:15
Marry an 18 year old orphan.

Horn Dog 2
02-04-06, 21:58
Do not look in Shanghai, I heard the women are very materialistic. Why get married Monger, I am waiting until I am 70 years old and then I will marry 3 or 4 seniors with fat pension cheques.


DJ Monger,

What Lex said is based not only on his own experience, but on seeing any number of marriages between Americans and SEA girls go T/U over the years. Personally, Lex has tried marriage to a Viet girl and a Korean girl. Both ended badly.

If you must have an asian girl (and despite his negative experiences Lex still prefers Asian women to western ones), why not try one from mainland China. Mainland China is a country in which there are an astronomical number of eligible, beautiful, intelligent, educated women who are eager to escape the dullness of life in a com***ist country. On the positive side, they are the product of a culture with three generations of living in a classless society. At least it is a society which has gotten as close to being classless as any on earth. Therefore they don't seem to have the hangups that girls from VN have concerning westerners. I believe they admire westerners in many ways.

One problem that will exist with any woman from a foreign culture is the old saw about the grass being greener. When any of us goes to a foreign land, we have expectations and preconceptions that are inevitably shattered given enough time in the new culture. So a woman comes here and as she learns what America is really about, she may become depressed, disillusioned, unhappy.

But the Chinese seem to be very resilient. In many ways, life in America is so much better than life in China, that it will always retain some luster for a Chinese girl. The issue, however, will always be that there are familial relationships as well as ones with friends that will always be missed. Look around you at how much the girls (wherever you are) enjoy the marketplace, prancing about in their finery, being on display for an admiring audience of like-minded fellow travelers, etc. Then ask yourself how happy a girl will be in an American suburb where she has few friends who speak her language or think as she does.

Sorry to be so negative, but someone needs to remind you to be realistic. In any case, if you are careful and thoughtful then whatever you do will be the right thing. Just prepare yourself for disappointment. This is part of life. Good luck with whatever you wind up doing.

The last issue I'd like to address is the difference between Thai and VN culture. This part of the world is a very interesting one. Over a period of hundreds (if not thousands) of years, two great cultures collided here much like great tectonic plates. These were, of course, the Indian and Chinese cultures. In VN you see the remnants and artifacts of at least one thousand years of domination by the Chinese. VN was a colony of China long before it became a French colony. This is the reason that we still see a class which has its roots in the Confucian system of government and learning.

In Thailand, the dominant culture was that of India. This is where buddhism came from even in the case of VN. But the interesting thing about Thailand is that it was never a colony of anyone. Why that is, I'm not sure. But the one certain thing is that this lack of having been colonized seems to have left the Thais with an incredible openness, especially toward foreigners. To be sure, Thais (like all people) have certain prejudices against foreigners. But they are not prone to xenophobia as are the Viets. With a VN, you never know exactly what they are thinking. Not so true with Thais.

No matter whom you are married to, it's important to be able to understand each other's thoughts, both superficial and subterranian.

On a more positive note however, I should point out that the internet may have made much of what Lex experienced irrelevant. Thankfully, the internet has come to places as far flung and poor as VN, China, and Thailand. A girl from almost anywhere can now conduct email relationships with friends and family almost anywhere else. She can talk for hours using the internet, exchange photos, even play games. So this may make interracial and inter-cultural marriages more viable. Only time will tell. This would be an interesting topic for someone's doctoral thesis.

Lex

DJ Monger
02-06-06, 04:06
Why get married Monger



To have kids, mostly. But also for a long term relationship with a woman - That always has its ups and downs but i think its an important part of life. it's just sort of a shame marriages have gotten so unstable over the last few decades.

So does anyone have, or even know of, any positive experiences marrying a viet woman? Surely it can be *that* horrible, i meet happy interracial couples in SEAsia all the time!

-djm


ps. i went on a few dates with an attractive japanese woman over the last few days. maybe you'll see me on the japan board next ;)

LexLuther
02-06-06, 14:57
DJ,

Since you have stated that one of your reasons for marrying a VN girl is in order to have and raise children, Lex may as well mention the following. It will also server to answer one of your other questions, which is whether or not anyone has any positive stories.

Lex was married to his VN "war bride" for over a quarter of a century. However it was never good. She was very stubborn, particularly about learning English as well as about taking on other positive aspects of our culture. She had come from what must be called a peasant background. Lex found to his dismay that women from this milieu are often terrible mothers.

She managed to establish a career in the U.S. and has done very well for herself financially. Like most Viets, she has a fierce entrepreneurial spirit. She now owns a good business, works for a hi-tech company, and owns two houses. She's contemplating buying a third house.

But since she felt that she had done ok without one, she never seemed to see a need for education for our offspring.

If you look at the culture in VN, what you will see is that the typical Viet mother from all but the highest echelons of society go out and work. They leave it to granny or auntie to take care of the kids. They really have an incredible hands-off attitude toward their children. I know it does not look that way to you, but it's true.

My wife's entire family escaped Vietnam in the early eighties and we brought them to the U.S. to live. They have all been very successful financially. The problem was that the family sort of viewed her as a w***e for having married outside her culture. So although they continually tried to extort money from her (money which they did not need once they established themselves), they were never there to do anything for her like helping to raise her (our) child. So we got all of the bad and none of the good from the relationship.

Although there were a few bright spots, in general our marriage was never a healthy one. After the tragic death of our son, it gradually dissolved. Lex would say that if you're after a good family in which to raise children, look for it with a woman with whom you will have great com***ication. That's the key. And if you find such a woman, you should give up mongering.

Here's an idea for you if you really must follow your dream with an Asian woman. First of all, go back to the U.S. This is going to sound strange, but try it anyway. Start going to church at one of the thousands of Korean Methodist churches in your area. They are all over and Koreans are passionate Christians. These people will accept you with open arms, strangely enough. You will undoubtedly find a woman there, perhaps a bit older than you had in mind, perhaps not. She may have been married or she may be a virgin. In any case, you will avoid the hassle of bringing her to the U.S. She will already have a support structure among those of her culture, and she will most likely be educated. Koreans seem to be more passionate about education that VN people. And Korean women are tigers in the sack.

Just an idea.

Lex

Traveler1234
02-06-06, 15:42
I've been reading the recent posts and gotten a chuckle....not pun or insult intended to all those that contributed. Like to suggest to Jackson to maybe start a new thread, the title doesn't necessarily have to be the one mentioned above.

Seems mongers on both the Thailand and Vietnam forums like to exchange this type of information, n also in the Philippines forum.

IMHO and again this is not a flame on anyone posting re this subject.

DJ Monger
02-06-06, 15:52
you know, on one hand an international mongering board like this might not be a place where i'm ever likely to hear too much pro-marriage posts, period. but on the other hand, i totally hear you guys, and i'm sorta wondering if this marrying a vietnamese peasant girl idea is such a great one. i'll probably hold off on it for while, anyway...


-dj

Fw190
02-06-06, 19:10
Lex. Really have enjoyed reading your recent posts. Very articulate and well written -- and reflecting a lot of experience and (undoubtedly hard-won) wisdom regarding cross-cultural relations and life. Would be a pleasure to buy you a beer and to chat someday in some friendly bar in Asia or in deepest "Little Saigon. " Best regards.


DJ,

Since you have stated that one of your reasons for marrying a VN girl is in order to have and raise children, Lex may as well mention the following. It will also server to answer one of your other questions, which is whether or not anyone has any positive stories.

Lex was married to his VN "war bride" for over a quarter of a century. However it was never good. She was very stubborn, particularly about learning English as well as about taking on other positive aspects of our culture. She had come from what must be called a peasant background. Lex found to his dismay that women from this milieu are often terrible mothers.

She managed to establish a career in the U.S. and has done very well for herself financially. Like most Viets, she has a fierce entrepreneurial spirit. She now owns a good business, works for a hi-tech company, and owns two houses. She's contemplating buying a third house.

But since she felt that she had done ok without one, she never seemed to see a need for education for our offspring.

If you look at the culture in VN, what you will see is that the typical Viet mother from all but the highest echelons of society go out and work. They leave it to granny or auntie to take care of the kids. They really have an incredible hands-off attitude toward their children. I know it does not look that way to you, but it's true.

My wife's entire family escaped Vietnam in the early eighties and we brought them to the U.S. to live. They have all been very successful financially. The problem was that the family sort of viewed her as a w***e for having married outside her culture. So although they continually tried to extort money from her (money which they did not need once they established themselves), they were never there to do anything for her like helping to raise her (our) child. So we got all of the bad and none of the good from the relationship.

Although there were a few bright spots, in general our marriage was never a healthy one. After the tragic death of our son, it gradually dissolved. Lex would say that if you're after a good family in which to raise children, look for it with a woman with whom you will have great com***ication. That's the key. And if you find such a woman, you should give up mongering.

Here's an idea for you if you really must follow your dream with an Asian woman. First of all, go back to the U.S. This is going to sound strange, but try it anyway. Start going to church at one of the thousands of Korean Methodist churches in your area. They are all over and Koreans are passionate Christians. These people will accept you with open arms, strangely enough. You will undoubtedly find a woman there, perhaps a bit older than you had in mind, perhaps not. She may have been married or she may be a virgin. In any case, you will avoid the hassle of bringing her to the U.S. She will already have a support structure among those of her culture, and she will most likely be educated. Koreans seem to be more passionate about education that VN people. And Korean women are tigers in the sack.

Just an idea.

Lex

LexLuther
02-06-06, 23:03
Traveler,

I got a chuckle too on seeing your post. It always amuses me when people suggest that other posters go somewhere else to post. Where does this come from? Is it an overwhelming sense of super-organization? If so, and if there were a thread devoted to, say, marrying locals, then as soon as someone posted something stating he wanted to marry a short girl, one of you guys would surely suggest that separate threads should be established for those who wish to marry short girls and for those who wish to marry tall girls.

Or is it perhaps that some people object to someone posting something which did not exactly match what he expected to see when he clicked on the topic? I've seen so much drivel on the photo gallery threads decrying people who wish to make comments or have a bit of intelligent discussion. "This is supposed to be a photo gallery" they will say or "Shut up and post pictures." God forbid someone should wish to express themselves verbally. The funny thing is that most of the guys who criticize others for adding commentary have never actually posted any photos themselves.

Does it stem from a desire or a need to control what others say? Lex doesn't care. The topic in which this discussion has taken place is entitled "General Info." That's good enough for Lex. If you or someone else don't like what I or anyone else posts on this thread or any other, you don't have to read it. If Jackson tells me I have to post on a separate thread, I'll do it. But you, my man, can go pound sand.

Your stupid comment just shows that you are truly a person with a one track mind and can't appreciate someone else's thoughts if they don't match your own. You most likely suffer from OCD.

Lex

One Wing Low
02-07-06, 00:18
I am sorry to hear about the death of Lex' s son and his marital problems.

I would add a little to his suggestion below:

"if you're after a good family in which to raise children, look for it with a woman with whom you have SIMILAR VALUES and great com***ication"

Having similar values will prevent a lot of serious problems. Having great com***ication would add a lot of enjoyment to the relationship. Imagine what it would be like to marry a deaf/mute, or a person who acts like a deaf/mute.

People with the same religious backgrounds tend to have similar values. As I mentioned before, you'll be surprised to find many upper-echelon people from certain culture would think nothing of lying, cheating, stealing, abusing...

Do the terrorists, who slit the throats of AA's flight attendants on 9/11, ring a bell?




DJ,
Although there were a few bright spots, in general our marriage was never a healthy one. After the tragic death of our son, it gradually dissolved. Lex would say that if you're after a good family in which to raise children, look for it with a woman with whom you will have great com***ication. That's the key. And if you find such a woman, you should give up mongering.

try it anyway. Start going to church at one of the thousands of Korean Methodist churches in your area. They are all over and Koreans are passionate Christians. These people will accept you with open arms, strangely enough. You will undoubtedly find a woman there, perhaps a bit older than you had in mind, perhaps not. She may have been married or she may be a virgin. In any case, you will avoid the hassle of bringing her to the U.S. She will already have a support structure among those of her culture, and she will most likely be educated. Koreans seem to be more passionate about education that VN people. And Korean women are tigers in the sack.

Just an idea.

Lex

LexLuther
02-07-06, 02:56
One Wing Low,

Thanks for your comments. When Lex married his Viet wife, he had lived with her in VN for close to a year. As you may be aware, since VN was a colony of France for over one hundred years, many Vietnamese practice Roman Catholicism. Lex's ex-wife and her family are Catholic. They were among the million or so Catholic's who migrated to the southern part of Vietnam in 1954 when the country was divided in two by the Geneva Accords. The point is that Lex assumed that he and his wife did have much in common and shared similar values.

They say time is the great healer. But time is an even better teacher. Please don't misunderstand. Lex is not bitter. He has no animosity toward his ex-wife. They com***icate on a regular basis and she relies on him for his wisdom and counsel (which she ignores like all women do).

However Lex learned the hard way what a challenge it is to be married to someone from as different a culture as the Vietnamese culture.

Sorry but I'm not sure I get your point about the 9/11 hijackers. However I will say this. I believe the Islamicists and terrorists share some things in common with the people whom we fought in VN 35 years ago. One thing they have in common is that the VC felt and the Islamicists/terrorists feel themselves to be the victims of an America who wishes to force its culture on the rest of the world. Another thing they have in common is that they are so much weaker than the mighty U.S.

Imagine yourself to be a small weak guy and a guy who is 6'6" is going to beat the crap out of you. You will use anything at your disposal. You will fight as dirty as you have to in order to protect yourself and that which you hold dear (your life, your money, your family, whatever). This is what the VC did and this is what the terrorists do. I'm not saying I approve of the terrorists and their antogonism toward America. But I wonder what a society is supposed to do in response to the might of a country as powerful as ours.

Ask anyone who fought in Vietnam. Most likely they will tell you that they had a tremendous amount of respect for their enemy at the time. The U.S. won militarily but was defeated politically by an enemy who was happy to die for his beliefs. In the end, we decided to declare victory and go back home. The alternative would have been to destroy the whole country. Don't be surprised if something just as bizarre and hard to understand happens in Iraq.

FW190,

Thanks to you as well. Lex would love to share a "33" with you next time he is in TPHCM.

Lex

Horn Dog 2
02-07-06, 10:08
Hi Monger,

A friend told me an WM associate I knew went to Vietnam and married a Viet woman who already had two kids. My friend saw them at a Lunar New Year function and which means they are still together. A country girl might be more suited for marrriage than a city girl. But, a city girl knows more and could have more in common with you-e. G. English Did you know that the good city girls are always afraid to be grouped with the SP girls? You could meet woman if you lived for a period of time in the city or the country. It is a little tougher if you do not speak the language, so learn and practise it. (My Vietnamese will be better when I go back to Nam later this year, I want to understand what they are saying in bed). All I know it takes time to fall in love and have a relationship with somebody you can trust and depend on. And you are right about the ups and downs. I see it in my friends' marriage but I believe there are alot of more "ups". Especially if they have children. There are other Asian women beside the Vietnamese women who loves the WM. The Japanese women are hot, I saw one of the most beautiful ones yesterday at work. She was tall (high heels), slim, model face and long dyed brown hair. I would have paid millions of dongs for a LT.

We have alot of interracial couples here in Vancouver, Canada-alot of happy couples. The Asian population is huge-a large % from H. K, Taiwan and PRC. Alot of hot Vietnamese girls but they seem to marry in their own culture. I guess we have people from all over the world-especially in 2010-Olympic year.

Well, Monger, I guess you are acting on finding that part that is missing in you life, I wish you an successful search. The rest of us will carry on the tough job of mongering and maybe, just maybe, a search for that special one. Monger, since you have no children now, there are children in Vietnam who have no fathers, no mothers and very little assistance. Donate if you can. I did. Take rice, food to the orphanage. Not money, it might go missing.


To have kids, mostly. But also for a long term relationship with a woman - That always has its ups and downs but I think its an important part of life. It's just sort of a shame marriages have gotten so unstable over the last few decades.

So does anyone have, or even know of, any positive experiences marrying a viet woman? Surely it can be *that* horrible, I meet happy interracial couples in SEAsia all the time!

-djm

Ps. I went on a few dates with an attractive japanese woman over the last few days. Maybe you'll see me on the japan board next; )

One Wing Low
02-08-06, 03:18
Lex,

Did your wife change her attitudes soon after you signed the marriage certificate?

So the poor should steal and the weak should murder? The same argument should carry over to women, especially those from 3rd world, who feel they are in much poorer positions compared to their men, so it's OK for them to sneak around and do all sort of stupid tricks against their men?

The more unequal the partners, the more bullshit, abuses and headache. They would never be able to truely give and forgive each other, like the VC and the American GI. The VC and the Jihads are forever harboring hatred and envy against more advanced peoples. This is the worst scenario.

There can never be true love except between equals. I think it's safer to go into relationships with someone roughly the same stature, age, education, achievements etc... It's easier to get along and adjust.


Imagine yourself to be a small weak guy and a guy who is 6'6" is going to beat the crap out of you. You will use anything at your disposal. You will fight as dirty as you have to in order to protect yourself and that which you hold dear (your life, your money, your family, whatever). This is what the VC did and this is what the terrorists do. I'm not saying I approve of the terrorists and their antogonism toward America. But I wonder what a society is supposed to do in response to the might of a country as powerful as ours.

Lex

Whisper1
02-08-06, 11:38
Doesn't true love rise above all. Afterall, if you have true love, then money, education, stature and achievements shoudn't matter. What matters is that you truely love one another. Since true love does not exist, I would have to agree with One Wing Low. HEHE


Lex,

Did your wife change her attitudes soon after you signed the marriage certificate?

So the poor should steal and the weak should murder? The same argument should carry over to women, especially those from 3rd world, who feel they are in much poorer positions compared to their men, so it's OK for them to sneak around and do all sort of stupid tricks against their men?

The more unequal the partners, the more bullshit, abuses and headache. They would never be able to truely give and forgive each other, like the VC and the American GI. The VC and the Jihads are forever harboring hatred and envy against more advanced peoples. This is the worst scenario.

There can never be true love except between equals. I think it's safer to go into relationships with someone roughly the same stature, age, education, achievements etc... It's easier to get along and adjust.

LexLuther
02-09-06, 00:46
One Wing Low,

I was not trying to justify what anyone does or did. But you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. Most conflicts (in my opinion), whether between individuals or between nations, arise out of the fact that one party feels itself to be in an inferior status to the other party, usually in terms of access to or control over resources of some kind.

In answer to your question, no she did not change immediately. I think she went into the relationship with intentions which were as good as mine. I think we also had the same goals in many respects. We just had different ideas about how best to attain them.

I tried from the beginning to steer her into directions which would enhance her self-esteem and make her more capable of living in our society. I bought her nice clothes, encouraged her to study and learn all that she could, took her on trips to Europe, etc.

But in the end, we were too different.

Lex

One Wing Low
02-10-06, 08:37
one wing low,
i was not trying to justify what anyone does or did. but you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. most conflicts (in my opinion), whether between individuals or between nations, arise out of the fact that one party feels itself to be in an inferior status to the other party, usually in terms of access to or control over resources of some kind.
lex

...are usually the cause of most conflicts. too bad the vc never understood this.


one wing low,
in answer to your question, no she did not change immediately. i think she went into the relationship with intentions which were as good as mine. i think we also had the same goals in many respects. we just had different ideas about how best to attain them.
lex

people brought into a new culture without their roots often feel they cannot be held accountable, therefore more likely act in less honorable ways. furthermore the poverty, hopelessness and insecurity where she came from might have driven her to act in much more selfish ways. upright people in civilized countries tend to care more about opinions of their peers, therefore tend to do the right things in the right ways. it's not so in poor countries where even heads of states would often do utterly stupid, selfish, ridiculous, unjust things and get away with them.


one wing low,
i tried from the beginning to steer her into directions which would enhance her self-esteem and make her more capable of living in our society. i bought her nice clothes, encouraged her to study and learn all that she could, took her on trips to europe, etc.

but in the end, we were too different.

lex

this may be the main problem, excuse me for saying. do you realize how painful it would be for a person to have to change his/her ways, especially when insisted by someone he/she loves? she may have resented you deeply for this.

i wonder if the regimented trainings of military men make them more inclined toward trying to change people to fit in their rigid molds, like making all good vc dead vc... their disciplined ways of thinking and doing things may be hard for women to adapt to. i dated a few girls from military families. the girls all hate and despise their fathers with vengeance for their demands, which i always thought it was very unfair to their dads.

if you really love someone, you should accept her as she is, and not try to change or improve her. just enjoy her positive attributes and try your best to ignore the rest. in fact that's the rule of survival in all relationships. correcting and improving people bring out a lot of resentment. you'd lose your friends quickly. let her learn from your fine example voluntarily. you probably have very strong paternal instincts, and perhaps unconsciously, you were acting more like her dad than her husband. it could be very painful for women, being sensitive, to be reminded regularly how inferior they are.

i learned it the hard way. i was roughed up by a few women who were probably deeply in love with me, but felt i did not care for them, or heaven forbids, thought they were not good enough. hell hath no fury as a woman scorn. i should have slept with all of them and let them have their ways with my body as often as they wanted. that would have saved me a lot of problems, hehehe. harmless white lies and subtle flatters go a long way with most women, even butches. those who are unaffected tend to be too ugly or too masculine to bother with.

i was interested in your experience since i watched the movie 'heaven and earth,' a true life story written by a viet war bride, turned into a movie by oliver stone. there were a lot of love, good intentions, even heroism, in their lives. she adapted well in america, engaging successfully in business, while he got completely lost without a war. they had lots of conflicts over how to do things, especially involving the children. the little family conflicts drove him beserk. they regularly abused and insulted each other in the worst ways. at the end it turned gruesome as the warrior committed the ultimate violent act by killing himself.

she eventually returned to vietnam to exorcise herself of her old master/lover who seduced, raped and impregnated her when she was a young maid in his home.

it was a very rich and touching real life story.

i am not a smart psychologist or social scientist of any kind. i am always in deep shit with my own relationships. i appreciate your sincerity in sharing your interesting life experiences, and hope you don't mind my discussion.

we really got into a lot of this mushy love stuff in this hard-charging sex guide forum.

LexLuther
02-10-06, 13:38
One Wing Low,

To my mind, sex is just a part of life and in that context I don't believe that sex and the pursuit of sex is bad. However as a Catholic I believe that sex is meant to be an adjunct to a healthy relationship (married) between two people of the opposite sex which is intended for procreation.

Of course we are all human and seldom display ideal behavior. Not being married any longer, I still need sex like the rest of you perverts. This board is a great place to tittilate one's prurient interests as well as to gain information which may be of use to us in our continuing efforts to get our rocks off.

The pursuit of everything which we need to live (sex, food, money, etc.) are, in my opinion, interesting topics for discussion. I'm not sure I would bore people here with my opinions on and experiences with food. But I think that experiences which relate to what we may have done in our lives as we pursued sexual happiness and how those things affected us and others are suitable for discussion here.

Of course you have people who resent seeing anything here which does not immediately and directly satisfy their desire to get their rocks off. You have to feel sorry for these guys. My guess is they suffer from some form of OCD.

You bring up some interesting issues in your last post. At this point in my life, I think I agree with you that it would have been better to accept her as she was and not to have tried to change her. But on the other hand, I think she wanted to leave Vietnam so that she could have a life which was different and better than she had in Vietnam. I'm sure that today there are millions of ladies in Vietnam, Thailand, China, Korea who would give up a lot to come to America. But they don't seem to realize that in order to make the best of life in the U.S., their behavior is going to have to change. But you are probably correct that my efforts to accelerate her adaptation to life in the U.S. caused a lot of resentment.


Lex

Horn Dog 2
02-11-06, 17:58
Lex: I objective, I am not a pervert. I am a normal, average looking male who happens to like women. I am also single and want to stay single. I was in a 15 years old relationship with a beautiful woman. She died in 2002, long story. The negative, depressing feeling was present for over two years. A friend told me something like this: It is better to experienced love then not loved at all. Love hurts, but you just have to remember the good times boys. I read something years ago. For every negative, the result is a positive equal to or greater than the negative. Something to think about.

It is refreshing to hear life experiences from all of you. It is kind of like talking to a stranger on the bus or street, who will start telling you personal information that they would not tell their family or friends.

IMHO, if you have a bad day, think about what people go thru in certain parts of Asia, your day may be not be bad as you think. Avoir pooners.

Wing Low: Heaven and Earth was a great movie.


One Wing Low,

To my mind, sex is just a part of life and in that context I don't believe that sex and the pursuit of sex is bad. However as a Catholic I believe that sex is meant to be an adjunct to a healthy relationship (married) between two people of the opposite sex which is intended for procreation.

Of course we are all human and seldom display ideal behavior. Not being married any longer, I still need sex like the rest of you perverts. This board is a great place to tittilate one's prurient interests as well as to gain information which may be of use to us in our continuing efforts to get our rocks off.

The pursuit of everything which we need to live (sex, food, money, etc.) are, in my opinion, interesting topics for discussion. I'm not sure I would bore people here with my opinions on and experiences with food. But I think that experiences which relate to what we may have done in our lives as we pursued sexual happiness and how those things affected us and others are suitable for discussion here.

Of course you have people who resent seeing anything here which does not immediately and directly satisfy their desire to get their rocks off. You have to feel sorry for these guys. My guess is they suffer from some form of OCD.

You bring up some interesting issues in your last post. At this point in my life, I think I agree with you that it would have been better to accept her as she was and not to have tried to change her. But on the other hand, I think she wanted to leave Vietnam so that she could have a life which was different and better than she had in Vietnam. I'm sure that today there are millions of ladies in Vietnam, Thailand, China, Korea who would give up a lot to come to America. But they don't seem to realize that in order to make the best of life in the U. S. , their behavior is going to have to change. But you are probably correct that my efforts to accelerate her adaptation to life in the U. S. Caused a lot of resentment.

Lex

LexLuther
02-11-06, 23:13
Horn Dog,

To my mind, mongers and providers are just two different sides of the same coin. Once a woman has seen how much money she can make by selling her pussy, she's most likely trapped in that profession. I've seen girls try to do something else. But the first time a manager looks at her cross-eyed or asks her to do something she does not like, she's going to say to herself: "I don't need to take this. I can make a shit load of money on my back."

Likewise us mongers can probably never have a normal healthy relationship with a woman whom we have not paid for pussy. The first time she has a headache, is in a bad mood, or tries to use sex as a weapon, we'll say: "I don't need to take this. I can go get all the pussy I want for a few bucks."

This is what I mean when I refer to us as perverts.

Lex

Horn Dog 2
02-13-06, 02:57
Hi Lex,

Okay, you had have a different meaning for the word, the word pervert to me means a man who displays outrageous,repulsive sexual behavior, example, a pervert was caught again rubbing himself against (asian females) on the transit bus.

I think some mongers can have a normal relationship with a non-SP. We had them in the past and know what it entails. I think we all want a "better half" and want somebody to grow old with when we no longer could get it up. I think relationships require alot of hard work and com***ication. There must be always give and take. Those who cannot work it out will join the large divorcee population. What you do not want is be controlled by her. A friend of mine has no life. He goes home after work every day to be home with his family and seldom goes out with his friends. He always (proudly?) shows me his wallet which contains only a 25 cent off coupon at a tire store. BJs are off the menu since the head monk told his wife and church members that certain sexual acts are forbiden. My friend said he only gets sex once a year under the Christmas tree. I always make fun of him in the present of others, I tell him to show them the mark on your ankle from the ball and chain.

I belive the providers have a out if they really want it. Some to get away from their drug addition, pimp or just tired of the business. There are woman organizations that provide training and education for those who want it. They could be really good in business since they already have most of the skills such as negotiation, sales and go the extra mile, not to mention risk taking. A hottie Viet babe told my friend that she was saving her money to open a shop back home. If I was a SP or even a non-SP, I would find a nice, good-looking man who has millions in the bank. I would introduce the ball and chain after the wedding night.

Happy mongering Poonies!


Horn Dog,

To my mind, mongers and providers are just two different sides of the same coin. Once a woman has seen how much money she can make by selling her pussy, she's most likely trapped in that profession. I've seen girls try to do something else. But the first time a manager looks at her cross-eyed or asks her to do something she does not like, she's going to say to herself: "I don't need to take this. I can make a shit load of money on my back."

Likewise us mongers can probably never have a normal healthy relationship with a woman whom we have not paid for pussy. The first time she has a headache, is in a bad mood, or tries to use sex as a weapon, we'll say: "I don't need to take this. I can go get all the pussy I want for a few bucks."

This is what I mean when I refer to us as perverts.

Lex

DJ Monger
02-19-06, 04:06
I belive the providers have a out if they really want it. Some to get away from their drug addition, pimp or just tired of the business.


i've seen at least one ex-pro return to the game volentarily, leaving behind a new marriage (to a local not a western guy) cause the money and independance appealed more than a stable life, apparently.

i dont think shes the only one who ever did it either...

Ralph Kramden
03-03-06, 23:50
Attention Kiddy Fuckers,

It doesn't pay to have sex with 10 and 11 year old girls. Just ask Gary Glitter, who will spend the next three years behind bars in the Hanoi Hilton. It will seem like 30, and he will come out a changed person.

Asian Steve 22
03-29-06, 12:21
Attention Kiddy Fuckers,

It doesn't pay to have sex with 10 and 11 year old girls. Just ask Gary Glitter, who will spend the next three years behind bars in the Hanoi Hilton. It will seem like 30, and he will come out a changed person.He should have faced the firing squad, family should have held out for more than 1000 pounds.

Ramekin
04-19-06, 07:52
I will be in HCM and Delta for a weeks vacation and am bringing my Chinese GF with me. She speaks English. I am wondering if I will have problems in hotels with sharing room?

Any response appreciated.

Don1010ho
04-19-06, 16:23
I will be in HCM and Delta for a weeks vacation and am bringing my Chinese GF with me. She speaks English. I am wondering if I will have problems in hotels with sharing room?

Any response appreciated.
You don't have problems sharing room with her in VN, if she carrying a Foreiner Passport with her. Have funs in VN.

Sammon
04-19-06, 16:23
I want to go to Hanoi from Bangkok with my Thai GF. I have American Passport and she Thai. Is it possible to get visas for both of us at the Vietnam Embassy in bangkok. I cannot get any answers online.
If anybody has any info I appreciate it.

Samu Ray
04-19-06, 16:37
The Vietnam Embassy is on Wireless st close to the US Embassy. From
Sukhumvit Road 1st it is about five or six blocks.

Ramekin
04-20-06, 21:58
Don1010ho thanks for reply.

We will have a blast!

Member #1461
04-30-06, 02:41
How useful is it to know Chinese language in Vietnam?

Can I converse with normal girls with Chinese? will they understand me?

Drano
04-30-06, 07:35
How useful is it to know Chinese language in Vietnam?

Can I converse with normal girls with Chinese? will they understand me?I know I sound like a smart ass, but....

Maybe in Cholon.

Airplane
05-12-06, 21:41
I'm thinking about having some shirts made while I'm there.

Has anyone done this? Please talk about the place, price, quality and anything else you might think of.

Thanks everyone, for all the other information.

Co Van My
05-15-06, 00:58
How useful is it to know Chinese language in Vietnam?

Can I converse with normal girls with Chinese? will they understand me?Chinese (Mandarin, I think) is widely spoken in Cholon, District 5. On the other hand, the Chinese places are generally the hardest for a foreigner to crack.

Silly Puppy
05-19-06, 02:26
very popular in Cholon, Vietnam. All my Chinese Vietnamese friends speak Cantonese. There are many Chinese Vietnamese in the South Mekong Delta areas such as Rach Gia, Ha Tien, My Tho, Kien Giang. However, many become assimilated after couple generations and speak very little Chinese. My ex girlfriend is a Chinese Vietnamese and she speaks zero Chinese.

Co Van My
05-19-06, 05:20
very popular in Cholon, Vietnam. All my Chinese Vietnamese friends speak Cantonese. There are many Chinese Vietnamese in the South Mekong Delta areas such as Rach Gia, Ha Tien, My Tho, Kien Giang. However, many become assimilated after couple generations and speak very little Chinese. My ex girlfriend is a Chinese Vietnamese and she speaks zero Chinese.Thanks for the clarification. Cantonese it is.

Pwap007
05-31-06, 05:25
I'll be in Hanoi in mid June. I would appreciate if some experienced Viet monger can guide me to the promised land. Where are all the hot pros and freelancers? I prefer clubs to MPs. I don't want to inflate prices so some ballpark figures on what on the menu would be nice.

Thanks

Drjoker69
06-27-06, 18:42
DJ Monger,

You're abolutely correct about how crappy American women are. But don't take my word for it. I invite you look at the statistics... over 50% of American marriages end in divorce while 20% of Vietnamese marriages end in divorce. Bosnia, Armenia, Georgia, Macedonia, Turkey and Uzbekistan have a less than 10% divorce rate.

The problem is, American women will use sex as a weapon to get what they want. They also use divorce to threaten men with financial ruin and losing cutody of his children. What they want is a slave with a ball and chain around his ankle. Barring that, they will settle for a nice fat divorce settlement. Bitches.

Asian women are better, but a 20% divorce rate is still a bit high for me. I am Asian-American, but I've avoided Asia due to some of the problems that LexLuthor already pointed out. There is no middle class in most of Southeast Asia. Even with my Asian looks, I found it impossible to break into upper class Asian society. I actually dated a girl whose father owned several high rises in Hong Kong. She came from a billionaire family. She accepted my marriage proposal but her father objected because I was too poor. I work in a hospital, make a good income and most girls would consider me a "good catch", but people in what another ISG poster described as the "mandarin ruling class" would consider me to be as low as dirt. So, she was forced to dump me. One thing that I should have caught on to (but love and lust blinded my rational mind) was how she and her family called the servants in their house "slaves", how she would snap her fingers at the maid when she came home so the maid would wash her feet without a word being spoken. Stupid me.

The "lower classes" either make very good wives or make very bad wives. You have to be careful. I've dated Vietnamese girls who weren't super-rich before. These are both the best and worst girls I've ever dated. LexLuthor is right, they have a good work ethic. They'll become financially successful in a decade, even when starting from scratch financially. They're also very loyal. I have never heard of a Viet bride cheat on her husband while it is very common for American women to cheat. The Kinsey report found that 30% of babies born in a New York Hospital had a blood type that makes it impossible for the father on the birth certificate to be the biological father. This was in the 1950's. I'm sure with modern genetic testing and the erosion of morality in modern America, this percentage is probably higher. However, cultural and class differences may cause problems if you lack communication. Make sure you are marrying her because she is your best friend and that your attraction to her is not sex nor looks. Don't have sex with her until you've known her awhile and thoroughly know her personality and character. Sex and love clouds logical judgement. Lots of really smart guys have done some really dumb crap because of love, I mean insanity. This even includes me.

I grew up in the US and I don't speak any Vietnamese so I'm not at any advantage to my caucasian brothers here on the ISG.

In my opinion, your best bet for finding a foreign bride that is better than American women are in the following countries;
1. Colombia - if you like latinas, this is the best. As with most of latin america, the divorce rate is 20%. If you like fantastic sex and salsa dancing, then this is it. Very easy to meet girls. I've travelled to Colombia before and I've lived in Venezuela for awhile, too. I almost married a Venezuelan girl but she didn't want to go to the US. Basically, she said, "Yes, I'll marry you, but you'll have to live in Venezuela with me." The stereotype that they all want to go to the "1st world" is false.
2. Bosnia - a little harder to meet Bosnian girls than Colombian girls. Bosnian girls have to be introduced by a trusted friend. You have to live there awhile as an English teacher and meet some locals to be successful. I'm seeing a nice Bosnian girl now. Hopefully, my search will be over. I'm going back to Bosnia in a couple of months, hopefully to get hitched.
3. Vietnam - I've never been there, but I heard that it's nice there. I also heard that you have to live there because the nice girls will only date you if you are introduced by a trusted family member or close friend of the family. Teaching English in a small town is probaby your best bet. Girls who will go out with you without a proper introduction are probably either sex providers, bar girls, or just girls of questionable moral charcter (at least that's what I've deduced is true from my limited knowledge of Vietnamese culture).
4. Thailand - I've been there. I think that most of the Thai girls who are good looking are the "mandarin ruling class". The poorer girls are usually very short due to malnutrition and have various scars due to motorcycle accidents and such. Unfortunately, a upper-crust girl's father might object to your marrying her daughter because he's probaby afraid that you might be marrying for money and not love. This may not be true, but it doesn't erase this fear of his. I'm personally familiar with the kind of heartache that her father's forced breakup will cause. I heard some ISG members worry that if you marry a poor girl that you need to be careful because she might be faking love (and you won't know until it's too late) to get at your money and green card. Remember, the wealthy girls' father is probably thinking about you in the same manner. I dated another girl whoose father owned a ruby mine in Thailand. Her father objected and that was the end of the relationship.

Marrying someone who is middle-class like you are might be tough in SE Asia due to the non-existence of the middle class in many of these places. There is a middle class, but it is small. It is tough enough to have to deal with misunderstandings due to culture without having to deal with misunderstandings due to class. Class bigotry sucks.

Anyways, I'm not saying that Vietnam is bad. I'm just saying that you have to be careful. As a matter of fact, I plan on going to Vietnam to teach English in a small town if my situation with the Bosnian girl doesn't work out.

REFERENCES

Info about American women:
http://www.nomarriage.com/

Divorce statistics for Vietnam:
http://www.vneconomy.com.vn/vet/?param=print&id=7972

Divorce statistics elsewhere:
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html

Useful info for single men:
http://www.singleabroad.com/

P.S. Good luck!


This is an interesting discussion about dating/marrying non-pros in vietnam We were having a similar discussion on the thailand board, where the consensus was that marrying a thai girl is feasable if a) you take the time to live in thailand for a while, learn the language etc b) you're very careful about who you marry (ie. not not NOT a bar girl) and c) you stay in thailand - thai people love thailand and might not neccisarily be happy somewhere cold and un-sanug like europe or america. it was suggested to me that vietnamese girl might have all the advantages of a thai girl, but would be more keen to leave her home country.

Anyway i'm thinking something similar to Drjoker - I'd like to come spend some time in vietnam, somewhere a bit country and off the beaten track, and stay for a while (i was thinking 3 months but now i'm thinking 6 would be more plausible) with the intention of finding a bride. nothing arranged per say, i'd probably get a job teaching english part time and use that as an "in" to meet down-to-earth local girls. chaperoned dates with virginal girls would be right up my alley for this purpose. I've found that in indonesia at least, girls that will have sex with you before marriage, or at least a long slow dating process, are often a bit dodgy.

i live in asia and would be bringing my hypothetical bride to bali rather than the states, at least at first (who knows where i'll be in 5-10 years) Anyway it's just an idea i've been considering and would be happy to hear more discussion along these lines. one thing i was wondering was if a full-on engagement (with expensive ceremony, family and priest involved, ring etc) might be enough to get a virginal country girl to spend, say, a year with me as a sort of "test run" - obviously it's a big commitment not just for me but for the girl, leaving the country and living with a farang etc... or would that even be neccesary? in thailand i dont think it would be, in indonesia it would depend on the circumstance.

and btw just for the record i'm pretty sure i dont qualify as a loser! i got lots of dates back when i lived in america - i was briefly married to a pleasant girl with a pretty face and a body like a playboy bunny, and had been dating an attractive girl 12 years younger than me for like 3 years when i left the states for asia. and i was making good money there too, lots of friends, in decent shape, etc, all in all pretty non-loser imho. my dating experiences weren't even so bad really. I just dont trust the statistics of american marriages (50% divorce rate) And compared to the kind of women i've been dating in asia I can clearly see that being married to a nice asian girl, despite the difficulties involved, would probably be infinitely preferable to marrying an american woman.

for example, that attractive young woman i left behind has gained like 100 pounds since the last time i saw her. and shes only 25, she hasn't even had a kid yet! she wasnt much into housework or cooking either. and my ex-wife went on to divorce her next husband (and father of 2 children by her) for being "emotionally distant". emotionally distant? what the fuck does that even *mean*? give me a nice asian country girl any day.

Drjoker69
06-28-06, 17:00
An ISG member asked if pre-nuptial agreements are O.K. with Asian girls....

Depends on religion. According to Shar'ia (Muslim law), all marriages have to have a pre-nuptial agreement.

It is a fallacy that pre-nuptial agreements are about money. Rich people protect their money by keeping it in bearer bonded offshore corporations. This is a corporation that is owned by whoever is holding a slip of paper that says, "I'm the owner". In other words, it is impossible to prove that you own the money. Rich people do not use prenups to protect wealth.

Prenups actually are great for clearly spelling out what is expected of you and her in a marriage. If you want her to have sex with you every day, then put it in the prenup. If she wants so many dollars a month as an allowance, then put it in the prenup. How much money she will get if you divorce should also be in the prenup. This is why Muslim countries have the lowest divorce rates. All Muslim marriages have a marriage contract. Stuff not in the contract is spelled out clearly in Shar'ia. Bosnia, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, and Turkey have the lowest divorce rates in the world.

A marriage without a prenup is like a having a job that has no job description. It is impossible for you to please your boss because your job description changes daily. Or maybe you're the boss and it is impossible for your employee to please you because the job description changes daily.

I think that it will be O.K. to have a prenup if you draw it up together. If it is a piece of paper that is thrusted at her, she will probably reject it. Just ask her casually what she expects of a husband. She will tell you. Then, write it down. Then, you tell her what you expect of her and write it down on a napkin. Then, tell her that you love her so much that you've written down everything that she wants out of marriage so you won't ever forget. Ask her if she would like you to sign the napkin to guarantee that you'll love her the same way forever. She'll say, "yes". The next day, just replace the napkin with a legal document and you both sign. With women, it's not what you say that's important because they're emotional and illogical. It's how you say something....

If she objects to signing the agreement and she lives overseas (you didn't meet her in the USA), then just say, "This is the way we Americans get married." Make sure that the agreement is drawn up by a lawyer in her country, a lawyer in the US, and in both English and her native language (you will have 4 parallel agreements).

I work in a hospital and all the other married doctors are all unhappy, except one Indian guy who is Muslim and had an arranged marriage with a marriage contract according to Shar'ia. In other words, the only happily married guy I know has a prenup. Only a dumbass would get married without one!

Good luck!

Drjoker69
06-28-06, 17:58
the following website might be worth a peek. i've done a google search on them and it seems legit.
http://www.mr-cupid.com/index.html

this is why it seems legit. go to:
http://commentarysingapore.********.com/2006_01_01_commentarysingapore_archive.html
then, scroll all the way down to the jan 1, 2006 entry about mr cupid. a cut and paste of the article is posted below.

it is not my style to use mr. cupid matchmaker, though, because i am very picky. i am very complicated and i am not a simple man with simple needs that can be met with a simple 6 day marriage tour offered by mr. cupid. however, if you have simple needs, then you might want to look at the mr. cupid matchmaker marriage tours website.

cut and paste of article about mr cupid
01 january 2006
local man, foreign bride ...
... and one very cute baby.

photos posted here are at the marriage and after the marriage with a baby that mr. lee fathered with his new wife.

st jan 1, 2006
man who couldn't find girlfriend: now baby makes three
by chua kong ho

two years ago, lighting technician jackson lee was despondent about ever finding a girlfriend, much less a wife.

singaporean women, he said, found him too fat, too ugly and too poor. after all, he weighed 180kg and his job paid him less than $2,000.

when he approached marriage agencies for help, three turned him down. the fourth, mr cupid international, did not and found him a vietnamese wife. when the sunday times wrote about him in january last year, he was just settling down to marriage.

today, the 35-year-old is a proud father. his wife, ms nguyen thi kum ngan, 22, whom he picked out of a queue of about 1,000 vietnamese factory girls, is settling well into life in singapore.

their daughter, zhi ling, is a smiley and gregarious baby who steals the hearts of strangers.

'now, i have a goal in life. i know what i'm working so hard for,' said mr lee, in an interview at his parents' flat in kim tian place in tiong bahru, where they live.

fatherhood has changed him, he said. he drinks less and saves more. he wants a place of their own. he wants another baby if their finances permit.

whereas he was once sceptical about whether his marriage would last, he now worries about the cost of putting his child through school.

ms kum ngan, a rice farmer's daughter, may have married him to escape poverty and to give her folks at home a better life, but the bonds between the two are clear.

when mr lee said the baby weighed '3.5 pounds', instead of 3.5kg, she playfully swiped at him and corrected him. he was in the delivery room with her.

on motherhood, she said: 'i was scared at first. i didn't know anything about being a mother. but thankfully my mother came over and stayed with me through my confinement.'

the couple said they live simply. they take walks in the evenings when he returns from work. she takes care of the baby and helps out with the household chores.

her sister, who is also married to a singaporean, visits often and the two cook up vietnamese dishes. they are not so homesick anymore, she said.

said mr lee: 'everyone was telling me how nasty foreign marriages turn out to be.
'but i can't wait to get home from work now to see my wife and daughter. i hoped for, but never really believed, that i would have this life.'

we often hear evil, unpleasant things about the exploitative singaporean men who buy themselves a poor young wife from vietnam or cambodia etc. this article paints a different kind of picture. man is happy, woman is happy, so what is the problem? things look good, don't they.

i found it interesting to note that ms nguyen thi kum ngan also has a sister who's married to a singaporean. and that the two sisters often visit each other here in singapore. i wonder whether we are witnessing another social phenomenon.

maybe the "poor young wives from vietnam and cambodia" now have sufficient numbers in singapore to start forming their mini-communities here. perhaps they build a network to help their eager sisters and cousins in vietnam and cambodia come over and find singaporean husbands too.

then in singapore, they establish contact with each other and meet up to provide mutual friendship, support and company. you know, drink tea, chit chat, philosophise about the differences between life in this country and life in that other country. like the expat wives in singapore do.

on a separate note, the blogger known as expat-at-large offers a commentary on the sex lives of fbos (fat balding old men). expat-at-large speaks with great authority on the subject, heheh.

Fred Gold
07-13-06, 23:54
I found some interesting material at this site. Has anyone had experience about meeting a "guide" on the friends list? Planning on making another visit soon, I hope!!! Some of the girls there are hot.
Thx Fred

Fw190
07-14-06, 12:32
Wow, I opened that website you mentioned, and it sure looks like one of those fully-commercial sex sites that are intended mainly to get subscriptions or scoop up URL's. I didn't dare go beyond the website homepage, for fear that I'd be getting viruses, trojan horses, spam, and assorted other "computer transmitted diseases."


I found some interesting material at this site. Has anyone had experience about meeting a "guide" on the friends list? Planning on making another visit soon, I hope!!! Some of the girls there are hot.
Thx Fred

Mak Daddy
07-20-06, 09:50
I heard that you can get FS where the girls ride their bikes to you at ST mini-hotels for $7 at Do Son Beach. Is that a current price? Can anyone confirm that?

Praise The Loard
08-04-06, 13:57
Hello,

I have a question. Do the girls allow you to take pics of them when you are with them ST? Do you pay them extra or do they refuse? Thinking about bringing my camera.

Thanks

DirtyOldMan
08-05-06, 11:19
Hello,

I have a question. Do the girls allow you to take pics of them when you are with them ST? Do you pay them extra or do they refuse? Thinking about bringing my camera.

ThanksThere is no general rule. Usually they don't care if you take pics of them nude, but you could have to pay to take pics while she is doing BJ, or simply they wouldn't want at all!

Just ask before it's too late, when you negociate the price; same for kiss, with a SW (ST or LT) you cannot take it for granted; generally, the younger, the less experienced, but, once again, there is no rule.

Have a nice stay,

DOM 151

Praise The Loard
08-11-06, 10:19
Has anyone had any success contacting girls in Vietnam on the internet? Any tips on free websites to use other than the "friendfiender" group which you have to pay for?Hello,

Just wondering if anybody has an update to this?

Thanks

DirtyOldMan
08-14-06, 17:27
Hello,

Just wondering if anybody has an update to this?

ThanksI tried once through VNRomance, 2 years ago. I can say that the girl was nice but not good in bed, and that before checking, I had to visit the family of her mother, then the family of her father; I was invited too to visit somebody at the hospital, but it was too much for the first evening, so I declined to go and went to bed alone, being exasperated. The day after, although she was not good at all, I had to obliged her to stay the whole night (as it was agreed before) if she wanted to get her money!

But you could be more lucky than I was!

DOM

Samu Ray
08-15-06, 03:29
Has anybody tried this, www.vietsingle.com ?

Mak Daddy
08-17-06, 05:49
Yea, I used that web site for my trip to Nha Trang. I ended up meeting a few women, but a lot of them chicken out. One showed up and was much nastier than the picture. One I did get successful with, and we spent a lot of time together. She showed me around, and we had some sex, anal even, but it was not that good. I still spent a lot of time with the pros, but at $15 a pop, who can complain. If you want her contact information, I will pass it on to you. Call me at +81-90-5469-7675.


Has anybody tried this, www.vietsingle.com ?

Samu Ray
08-18-06, 02:07
I spent lots of time in KM 11 when it was open. I remember one particular girl
whose pictures is on Cambodia thread, Phonom Penh, #1156, posted on 6,7,06. I must have had good luck, almost all Viet girls I took were nice looking, very innocent in bed. I heard somewhere those girls were recruited from small cities,farms. Few of them were not friendly, overall I think I had my share of nice Viet girls. I will be visiting Vietnam soon, yeah, for girls!

Praise The Loard
08-18-06, 02:41
Hello all:

I need to find a source for getting Viagra in VN. Preferrably in Hanoi. Can anybody offer any tips on availability, price, where, etc.? I am assuming that is available over the counter.I'm also wondering if there are any places in VN to get Viagra or equiv? Also, are you allowed to bring any in?

Praise The Loard
08-18-06, 19:52
Hello, I have one other question. What is the average income for a person working in Vietnam? Ie, how much does a person working at a hair salon make a month? (assuming no prostitution, etc)

Dragonfly22
08-18-06, 21:56
I've heard varying amounts from $1USD-$3USD per day. The average yearly income is $400.00 per person per year and I think the president only makes $200.00USD per month. With all the graft and corruption it has to be more for any government employee who can squeeze somebody, police, inspectors, customs ect.

Amp Man
08-19-06, 02:32
Hello, I have one other question. What is the average income for a person working in Vietnam? Ie, how much does a person working at a hair salon make a month? (assuming no prostitution, etc)A job like a hair salon or similar will pay about $40-$60 a month, and Office job for a University grad can pay $100 -$200. Those are rates for working for a local company or boss. Some VNese working for a large international company can make more, but it is far from what the westerers are getting with salary and housing while working "offshore".

You can rest asured that the governmet officials are make much more then $200 a month, but not the many different forms of police that they have or the firemen. Even doctors and nurses are still poorly paid.

Remember that many of the prices that you pay in this country are much higher then the local is paying. A bowl of Pho in D1 will cost you about $1 -$1.5 (compared to $5-6 in bay area), but in a neighborhood like in Phu Nhuan even a white guy like me speaking Vnese can get it for $0.25.

Housing and everything else are increasing at incredible rates, the saving grace for many VNese is they enjoy live with many people. Many people around, with noise = happy, but no people and quiet is thought to = Sad. Go figure as I grasp for solitude and peace to them I am reaching for saddness.

Cheers

Whisper1
08-19-06, 14:44
A job like a hair salon or similar will pay about $40-$60 a month, and Office job for a University grad can pay $100 -$200. Those are rates for working for a local company or boss. Some VNese working for a large international company can make more, but it is far from what the westerers are getting with salary and housing while working "offshore".

You can rest asured that the governmet officials are make much more then $200 a month, but not the many different forms of police that they have or the firemen. Even doctors and nurses are still poorly paid.

Remember that many of the prices that you pay in this country are much higher then the local is paying. A bowl of Pho in D1 will cost you about $1 -$1.5 (compared to $5-6 in bay area), but in a neighborhood like in Phu Nhuan even a white guy like me speaking Vnese can get it for $0.25.

Housing and everything else are increasing at incredible rates, the saving grace for many VNese is they enjoy live with many people. Many people around, with noise = happy, but no people and quiet is thought to = Sad. Go figure as I grasp for solitude and peace to them I am reaching for saddness.

CheersJust a clarification.. A girl working in a legit hair salon does not get paid a monthly salary. She works on tips. On average, she makes about 3,000,000 dong a month which works out to be a little bit less than $200.

Amp Man
08-20-06, 07:13
Just a clarification.. A girl working in a legit hair salon does not get paid a monthly salary. She works on tips. On average, she makes about 3,000,000 dong a month which works out to be a little bit less than $200.

I do not know how you get your information, but it is incorrect. I have a family member working in a legit hair salon (there are many more legit then non-legit), and she is paid a monthly salary and she recieves tips. I would never be as bold as you and make a blanket statement like that, you can not even cover the economics and wages in the USA with a statement like that. There are many jobs in many countries that provide no salary and income is based solely on tips.

Another problem for workers in VN is that if the business is not sustaining the usual profits the owner or manager can tell his staff, "so sorry but in the next month you will now make 750,000 Dong, and if profits return you will go back to your regular 1,000,000 Dong", there is no real workers rights for salary protection or safety concerns. Many employees take the pay cut.

Getting a job is a bit different for the local VNese also, they have a newspaper/magazine that the employee will put a picture and a brief statement of education, the next day the phone can ring off the hook, with many offers of employment.

Sorry to correct you Whisper but I am an American living in HCMC and have for 2 years, with many family members in the education system and work force.

Cheers

Mak Daddy
08-20-06, 09:31
The CIA World Fact Book is good for info like this. The Economist website has a lot of good info too.


Hello, I have one other question. What is the average income for a person working in Vietnam? Ie, how much does a person working at a hair salon make a month? (assuming no prostitution, etc)

Whisper1
08-20-06, 17:21
I do not know how you get your information, but it is incorrect. I have a family member working in a legit hair salon (there are many more legit then non-legit), and she is paid a monthly salary and she recieves tips. I would never be as bold as you and make a blanket statement like that, you can not even cover the economics and wages in the USA with a statement like that. There are many jobs in many countries that provide no salary and income is based solely on tips.

Another problem for workers in VN is that if the business is not sustaining the usual profits the owner or manager can tell his staff, "so sorry but in the next month you will now make 750,000 Dong, and if profits return you will go back to your regular 1,000,000 Dong", there is no real workers rights for salary protection or safety concerns. Many employees take the pay cut.

Getting a job is a bit different for the local VNese also, they have a newspaper/magazine that the employee will put a picture and a brief statement of education, the next day the phone can ring off the hook, with many offers of employment.

Sorry to correct you Whisper but I am an American living in HCMC and have for 2 years, with many family members in the education system and work force.

CheersLike you, I get my information from living in Vietnam the past 2 years. Unlike you, I'm a Vietnamese born American. I undestand that to say All hair salons does not pay a salary is incorrect. However I would say that most hair salons and ALL massage parlors in Vietnam does not pay a salary. The girls work solely on tips.

Amp Man
08-20-06, 17:24
The CIA World Fact Book is good for info like this. The Economist website has a lot of good info too.These are good sources Mak D,
maybe the Economist is a bit more upto date then the CIA pages, but great basic info.

Why do guys really want this info? Is it to get a grasp on what to pay? If that is the case just know that many girls in the business have a clue what the service cost is in other countries. There are girls that have been to and continue to go on working vacations to Singapore, Thailand and other locations. This along with the basic greed may be a reason that the girls are asking for more. Interesting thought , but is it really part of this forum? As you see I do not mind adding my two cents.

Cheers

Amp Man
08-20-06, 23:43
Like you, I get my information from living in Vietnam the past 2 years. Unlike you, I'm a Vietnamese born American. I undestand that to say All hair salons does not pay a salary is incorrect. However I would say that most hair salons and ALL massage parlors in Vietnam does not pay a salary. The girls work solely on tips.I really have no need to waste time explaining VN economy to you, you think you understand it, and that is good enough.

It is funny you talk like being Viet Kieu is an advantage for you. You do realize that the local VNese have a basic distrust and resentment of VK, this stems from poor actions by a few returning VK. Unfortunately the Vietnamese can really hold a grudge. If you are having no problems then you must really be a nice guy and have not offended other with a superior attitude.

Cheers

Whisper1
08-22-06, 02:31
I really have no need to waste time explaining VN economy to you, you think you understand it, and that is good enough.

It is funny you talk like being Viet Kieu is an advantage for you. You do realize that the local VNese have a basic distrust and resentment of VK, this stems from poor actions by a few returning VK. Unfortunately the Vietnamese can really hold a grudge. If you are having no problems then you must really be a nice guy and have not offended other with a superior attitude.

CheersI'm not here to flame you nor am I here to prove that I'm better than you. I'm simply try to share my knowlege of Vietnam to this online community. Being a Viet Kieu has it advantages and disadavages. The advantage is that you understand the culture and the way people think in this country. The disadvantage like you said is that so many Viet Kieu with bad attitude come back here thinking they are god's gift to women. Being a Viet Kieu living in vietnam, I really dislike some of the VK that comes back here on vacation who just like to show boat so they can get the girls. That's just my perspective.

Amp Man
08-22-06, 06:52
I'm not here to flame you nor am I here to prove that I'm better than you. I'm simply try to share my knowlege of Vietnam to this online community. Being a Viet Kieu has it advantages and disadavages. The advantage is that you understand the culture and the way people think in this country. The disadvantage like you said is that so many Viet Kieu with bad attitude come back here thinking they are god's gift to women. Being a Viet Kieu living in vietnam, I really dislike some of the VK that comes back here on vacation who just like to show boat so they can get the girls. That's just my perspective.I hear you about the show boating, unfortunately that is not just with trying to score women, but also in many other areas of life. The Vietnamese I know really hate the VK with the look at me I am a big shot attitude.

Understanding the culture is something I feel I may never fully understand, even with the good understanding I have at this time, there are just things that make me shake my head and think to my self "why" or "WTF".

This make marriage a challenge, even more so then usual.

As for me I did not go to SEA or Vietnam to find a wife, but it happened that I met someone that I enjoy to be with and the rest is history. I would have never gone looking offshore, for the reasons of cultural differences and the hassles that come with it.

No flamesintended here,

If you are up for a beer sometime let me know.

Cheers

Silly Puppy
08-24-06, 19:31
Many Vietnamese males really hate VK but a majority of Vietnamese females (18 to 40) really LOVE us. LOL. I met a Vietnamese lady (who marries a rich American businessman) on a flight from Bangkok to HCM city. We had a good time flirting with each other while her old husband was sleeping in the next row. Ha ha....

CrashOver
08-24-06, 20:02
Hi Bro's,
I will be on business trip this Sunday, reaching Hanoi at 1900, just wonder what could I try out when I will be in Hanoi...??

You guide is much appreciated... What is the price range for action?
Furthermore, I don't knows what is the currency exchange look like..!!
1 US = ?Dong
1 RM = ? Dong

Cheers brothers...

Cho Matxa
09-03-06, 09:04
There are news on the VN papers that ex and current models have become callgirls. Does any one has connection?

I appreciate a few thru P.M.

Many thanks in advance.

Praise The Loard
09-06-06, 06:42
Any good place to get sim card for my phone?

Thank you

Fred Gold
09-06-06, 17:50
I bought my sim card at the airport. After exiting customs/immigration there was a cell phone company with a booth. I think it cost about 12-14usd for card and some prepaid minutes.

There was also an ATM machine nearby that took by atm card

GL

Phantomtiger2
09-07-06, 00:14
Did a search but didnt find the answer to this. Whats the best way to get a Viet. visa from either the US or Canada?
Only read some post suggesting getting it from Bkk or Phnom Penh.


Thanks

Traveler1234
09-07-06, 00:20
Did a search but didnt find the answer to this. Whats the best way to get a Viet. visa from either the US or Canada?
Only read some post suggesting getting it from Bkk or Phnom Penh.


Thanks

Takes about one week unless you pay extra - best is if you can submit application personally to one of their consulate offices (two visits). Otherwise you must rely on mail.

Google for consulate site and download their application form, follow their directions. Pretty straightforward.

Remember, it's good from 30 days of issue so don't apply too early (nor too late).


PS - if you go to flyertalk.com, on their forum there is detail discussion....but what i posted above is pretty accurate summary:

http://flyertalk.com/forum/search.php?searchid=48998

Fred Gold
09-07-06, 00:40
Yes, the visa is for 30 days, but I believe you can obtain it up to 6 months in advance, just put the entry date down that you want it to start.

Last time I mailed it-used priority mail with delivery confirm and supplied a FEDEX prepaid envelope for the return. They want something with a tracking number.

I don't recommend 'visa on arrival' because there is much paper work to fill out and it takes a while.

Happy hunting

Cho Matxa
09-21-06, 18:16
Has anybody tried this, www.vietsingle.com ?

www.vietsingle.com is not a place to find f...ker. They are not sexually open minded as if you would find on some swinger magazines. There are innocent girls who look for a term relationship. There are professional prostitutes who look for high end customers. And there are even more girls who are in the middle; lose nothing if she is banged (b/c she has lost her virginity long time ago) and knowing someone from abroad is potentially a ticket out of Vietnam.

Thus, if you work in Vietnam or visit VN for a long time (a few months), then vietsingle would be the ideal site. If you are a monger who would visit VN for less than 2 weeks with a travelling schedule, then just forget vietsingle; tune your guts and skills to pick up motor girls would yield more fruits.

Al Beach
11-05-06, 22:54
Picked up my VN Visa in USA by mail from their embassy. Multi entry cost was 130, paid in two checks, plus ~$30 for Express Mail 7 insurance both ways, got visa back in 6 days. Website was http://www.vietnamembassy-usa.org/consular_services/visa_info/ .

Drjoker69
12-24-06, 06:02
Hi,

I am thinking about signing up for a Mr Cupid wife finding tour in Vietnam. Has anybody ever personally dealt with Mr Cupid? What are the positive aspects and negative aspects with a matchmaking tour in Vietnam with Mr Cupid? Here is the URL to Mr Cupid's website:

http://www.mr-cupid.com

BTW, if you have never been on a tour with Mr Cupid, please do not post any flames about how I must be an evil chauvinist. I get enough of that from my female friends and family. If a woman looks out for number 1, it's, "You go girlfriend!" but if a man looks out for number 1, he's suddenly an evil chauvinist. Again, I would really appreciate personal experiences. I don't need any baseless "2 cents" opinions without personal experiences. Thanks in advance and much appreciation.

Cheers,
drjoker69.

Lazy Lover
04-08-07, 23:38
So I buy this Suzuki motorcycle in Nha Trang.

So the chain falls off the first day 7 km down a lonely dirt road.

So two days after that the electric goes out at 9: 00 a. M. On my way south of Dalat. Just as this happens I spot a sign that says "Suzuki", so I turn in quickly, my stupid useage of front brake on gravel resulting in a dramatic entrance of my wiping out at 8 km/hr in front of a cafe full of locals. Blood, cursing, bent protection tubes and 11 hours of repairs in the middle of nowhere.

Pretty daughters offered, daughter #1 is sweet & speaks some english, takes me back to watch music videos &. Talk. A delicious lunch, Cafe next door has a group of men who I hang with, but decline drink.

I am tired. I am stuck. I am a bit pissed.

There are pretty girls and women all around me and I have not gotten laid since Dien Bien Phu weeks ago. Oh wait. That's right. That was my first time with both an Asian and a hooker and after she dramatically faked an orgasm she said we done and me in my simple drunken shock at being in a dark cement walled room paying for sex in the "Karaoke" house behind the Western Tourist hotel which stays open late so the French and German men on a package tour can sneak out of the room their wives are still asleep in. Well the shock of all that means I don't get a chance to finish myself! Sure there was that HJ in Dalat but I do a better job than that anytime.

"Bike fix 4: 00 p. M. " = Fuck it, so I start eating & drinking with the local men while pretty mothers & daughters talk about me. Pretty mother sits in hammock holding baby. Points to cute young girl: "Girlfiend? " Ah. Definitely NO.

Someone’s shirtless getting drunk Dad to me: "You: boom-boom? ! " "Ah. No. "

. More drinking. Fumbled dictionary conversation with former Vietcong fighter. New girls show up, very well dressed: methinks they are an important source of income at this nowhere corner in the middle of Vietnam. One new girl (Daughter #2? ) is VERY CUTE, not small framed like most Viet gals, she’d fit in fine at a better USA Sorority. She spends afternoon staring at me.

Shirtless drunk man accosts me again: "boom=boom? " (he then takes off from house and wife in search of this methinks)

. I have got to get outta here! (But if daughter #1 OR 2 she follows.)

Walk down dirt road, but every house stares at me, half of them call to me but the White Guy Show is on hiaitus. One house has young women sitting on the floor who give me very enthusiastic Hellos and beckening hands. Local market spotted but halfway there an old woman appears at a door: "Hello,,! " "Xinchao" I say and then notice the young women sitting behind her on the floor: "You Karaoke? ! " Apparently sex is the ONLY source of income for this community. Outta there quick, buy some ice cream, start walking back, Shirtless Drunk Dad appears at door of enthusiastic girls house "Hello,,. Hello,, Come Come! "

He has left his wife traveling south on highway only to circle back around on a back road to get laid LESS THAN 4 BLOCKS FROM HIS HOUSE.

Back to the White Guy Show, Bike not fixed.

Daughter #1 "I work in Ho Chi Minh City" Then we should have dinner.

"No I work at5. 00. P. M. ". Only a few jobs start that late. Factory!

Some young smokey boys show up drunk & sweaty from their own afternoon of helping the local economy, one a dead ringer for a Snowboarding bro, hat hanging sideways. So I have to drink with him too. 4: 00 pm comes and goes.

Dinner with daughter #1 & her friends: Viet Whiskey & beer. When I decline more local whiskey my next beer becomes strangely whiskey flavored. I've been doing individual shots with each one repeatedly but they never notice my pouring half of them out secretly (which still puts me ahead of everyone as there are 5 at the table).

"You You You Karaoke with me & friends! " says daughter #1 who is getting very drunk and is now just as cute as Daughter#2 as I am getting very drunk. If she had dragged me to the back I would've gone, family be damned, hell I think they'd love it! Oh but if only #2 we're here. Oh my god here she is. We share a shot of whiskey and 2 halves of a CHICKENS’ HEAD. The brothers/ boy friends entice me to smoke cigarettes, pictures are taken. I am in the middle of Viet Nam, having ridden half the country so far and I only learned how to ride a mortorcycle 2 1/2 weeks ago in Hanoi. It is my very own I AM A GOLDEN GOD moment! I'm going to get laid. But wait didn't me and a pal end up at a family run karoake with two gals provided within 20 minutes last week? We're they all over us? Didn't they whip out their cell phones and start taking pictures of our cocks? Oh that's right. I am circumcised and THEY DIDN"T DIG THAT.

Sound of vroom vroom=BIKE IS FIXED! (Every electric part replaced methinks AND COSTS 660, 000! $37) But it is now 7: 30 p. M. & no way am I driving very far.

"Karaoke! " says daughter #1.

No I need hotel first, shower, then we all sing.

"KARAOKE! " she whines.

I get ride to hotel with brother (? )as it starts to rain, first hotel refusing me as a foreigner. After shower I look at the rain and say "I tired I go to sleep" to brother (? ) but then Daughter #1 shows up with friend & father & I give in. Father goes home. We ride to Karaoke. I am supposed to sing every other song & it all sucks horribly as the boys are bored & the Daughter #1 is no longer as flirty or drunk (and where is Daughter#2 who is actually her Friend #1? ) I am tired, most of my money is now gone & parts of me are very blue.

"You You You-Cafe! "

No cafe, me get bike, me sleep, me go Ho Chi Minh City tomorrow.

"Cafe! "

(Only if Friend #1 shows up & the both of you fuck my brains out for the rest of my money. .)

Next year I ride back through Viet Nam South to North, and I AM going looking for Daughter#2/Friend #1.

It was really a quite nice day.

Colony2007
04-24-07, 06:09
I'm not here to flame you nor am I here to prove that I'm better than you. I'm simply try to share my knowlege of Vietnam to this online community. Being a Viet Kieu has it advantages and disadavages. The advantage is that you understand the culture and the way people think in this country. The disadvantage like you said is that so many Viet Kieu with bad attitude come back here thinking they are god's gift to women. Being a Viet Kieu living in vietnam, I really dislike some of the VK that comes back here on vacation who just like to show boat so they can get the girls. That's just my perspective.I fully understand how it feels to be a VK, hated by VN men but adored by girls. Perhaps if you are non Vietnamese Asian who speaks passable Vietnamese, the sailings will be more smooth.

Draco
05-02-07, 16:33
visiting HCMC the week of May 7-11. It's been about a year. There used to be a great bar called Saigon Saigon that ran into difficulty with the police and was closed late 2005. Does anybody know if it has re-opened?

Member #2041
05-08-07, 16:47
Can anyone here tell this American where to travel when in Vietnam? I've recently been invited there this comming September by a lady here in the U.S. who wants to invite me to see her lovely niece. I know what your thinking but, she's not a working girl. She can read, and write english very well, and has recently finished college. If all goes well she may be my new wife. We have been in coorespondence for 3 months. Any honest ideas are valued. Thanks.

As you will have your companion with you:

Halong Bay cruise, Upcountry hill tribes and way of life around Sapa, Ancient temples in Hue, way of life in the Mekong Delta (need your Malaria phrophylaxis), Beaches around Nha Trang, and of course, the cities of Hanoi and HCMC.

Wendella
05-09-07, 07:08
There used to be a great bar called Saigon Saigon that ran into difficulty with the police and was closed late 2005. Does anybody know if it has re-opened?

These places change names pretty often, and also close. A bar by that name isn't ringing a bell. Where was it? Any landmarks nearby? If you are talking about "Lost in Saigon", that one shut for good, never reopened, though the owners started a new bar downtown called Lush which is very successful. Not as seedy as the old one, bigger, much more fashionable, and higher end. It's on the corner at the start of Ly Tu Truong.

Kodanana
05-09-07, 20:01
Can anyone here tell this American where to travel when in Vietnam? I've recently been invited there this comming September by a lady here in the U.S. who wants to invite me to see her lovely niece. I know what your thinking but, she's not a working girl. She can read, and write english very well, and has recently finished college. If all goes well she may be my new wife. We have been in coorespondence for 3 months. Any honest ideas are valued. Thanks.It's all depend on your budget and your taste for travel. If you like it in luxury or backpacker style, you can have it. But that lovely girl might expect medium luxury from you.

And where from you will start your trip? My guess is Sai Gon.

You can find the following destination quite interesting : Hue - Da Nang - Hoi An - Nha Trang - Da Lat - Phu Quoc.

I took out Mui Ne because it similar to Nha Trang.

A round trip for this would takes about 12 -14 days.

Cost: any thing from USD 5K - 20K for 2.

Good luck.

Fox Two
06-06-07, 06:34
I have read some of you guys mention VietSingle as a means of contacting ladies to hook up with and just wanted to give a friendly warning. I'm not saying don't use it, just be careful you're not being played for a fool, getting ripped off or worse.

First off, make sure to check out the listed IP address on the profiles. Some of them originate in the US even though the listing is supposedly from Vietnam.

Example:
http://vietsingle.com/pro.php?ID=499599&l=1

her IP is 24.99.92.31

A quick look on an IP locator like:

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

shows Lawrenceville, GA. Hey, I don't know this girl from the next. Maybe a friend/family posted the profile for her. Perhaps she mistyped her info. I don't know. But it seems suspicious to me.

Second, someone posted a warning to beware of several fake profiles:

http://vietsingle.com/pro.php?ID=548410&l=1

I understand the first part, but my viet is kind of rusty so if anyone would be nice enough to fully translate (into english) the second half and post it here or PM me I would be most appreciative.

Example of what I'm talking about. Check out these profiles.

http://vietsingle.com/pro.php?ID=558391&l=1

http://vietsingle.com/pro.php?ID=560058&l=1

Notice it's the same girl, BUT different education and occupation. Are my eyes deceiving me? It *is* the same girl right? It looks like there are several other profiles from 203.162.3.### that are suspect too.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring it up since I took a look at it and started chatting with a couple of the ladies on there. Comments welcome. Flames ignored.

Cheers,

Fox Two

Teyes
06-09-07, 11:37
Fox Two,

I am 99.9% that the first lady 499599 is currently in VN, she is not my type but she seem open to meet people, nice, and maybe not a pro. I wont bet on it though. I saw her in Palace Club, on Nguyen Hue.

And for the girls who look alike, I'm not that sure they are same.

Still, a lot of crap and fake in vietsingle.


...

First off, make sure to check out the listed IP address on the profiles. Some of them originate in the US even though the listing is supposedly from Vietnam.

Example:
http://vietsingle.com/pro.php?ID=499599&l=1

her IP is 24.99.92.31

A quick look on an IP locator like:

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

shows Lawrenceville, GA. Hey, I don't know this girl from the next. Maybe a friend/family posted the profile for her. Perhaps she mistyped her info. I don't know. But it seems suspicious to me.

...

Fox Two
06-12-07, 00:49
@Teyes,

Thanks for the feedback. I think some of these girls have their profiles made up for them by friends/family stateside. So make sure you're really talking to the girl and not some mother who's trying to marry off her daughter. Also some of the IP addresses are so similiar they have to be in the same internet cafe. So if you're working on two girls that happen to be sitting next to each other responding to your emails... well you get the picture.

Cheers,

Fox Two

Pokey Penguin
06-14-07, 13:57
Having used Vietsingle to meet girls for over a year, I can tell you that the biggest problem is that the girls never look as good as their pictures. Almost all the girls have their pics retouched by Photoshop services. Acne-scarred skin magically becomes smooth, dark faces become pale white, wrinkles disappear. Or they are posting pics of themselves as they looked 10 years ago. The girls also mostly lie about their ages if they are past 35. Someone who says she is 37 is probably 42.

I have met only one girl who really looked as good as her picture. And, sure enough, she was pretty much the only one I met who didn't like ME.

It's pretty dumb that they post these fake pics, because all it produces is disappointment when the guy meets them.

I also met one girl, who had a really nice picture, and she turned out to be a katoey (or maybe just a transvestite...her tits seemed very fake and weren't aligned properly).

It's tempting to use Vietsingle because then you can do an advanced search (if you pay for Gold Account) and target a certain age range, and height and weight (which really improves searching if you don't want the 90% who are tiny girls). You can find girls who understand some English (but not many). But I've come to realize that for the time I spend using Vietsingle, I could just go out and meet girls on the street, in shops, etc., and do much better, and see girls as the really are, instead of in some faked picture that represents the girl's fantasy of how she wishes she looked.

Also, these girls are looking for marriage, and most of them are poor and have menial jobs. If you want to use girls for sex, please look elsewhere.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Gangles
06-16-07, 15:40
In the old days, when an illiterate Chinese wanted to send a letter, he/she would go to a letter writer, tell them what they wanted to say, and the letter writer would write their letter for them.

I came across this tradition 20 years ago in the old Chinese quarter in Kuala Lumpur.

I recently came across the equivalent in an internet cafe in Pattaya, where the Thai girl who could not speak English would tell the letter writer what she wanted to say, and he would type the email in English. Whether he accurately translated what she said I don't know, but she did not say short sentences so he could translate. Rather, the girl would talk for a minute or two, and he would type from there.

In a bookstore in Bangkok, I came across a book of pre-written letters for Thais to type into their emails. There was a whole bunch of love letters, letters telling tales of woe asking for money etc, and many others.

As there are few Vietnamese who can speak English well enough to communicate via email, I suspect that the same services would be available. So maybe this is what you are getting.

G

Gangles
06-17-07, 09:10
hello mountain peep, i laughed at your story of the suzuki south of da lat. great tale to tell the grand children.

the village sounds like an interesting place, especially if the main trade is their girls.

can you tell me the name of the place, or give reasonable directions to get to it, as i will be in the da lat area later this year and would like to check it out.

keep laughing.

Nonthab
07-10-07, 13:36
I'm off to HCM city for 2 nights, weekend after next, to check out the scene. Can someone suggest a suitable hotel up to $30 a night.

Thanks, Non.

Dabeast
07-11-07, 15:37
Hi All,

Time for me to give back to this board. Have been getting great information from here without contributing for far too long.

I am a regular traveller to China and in fact spend 4 months of the year in HK. Recently I have made a couple of trips to Vietnam:

First stop on this last trip was HCM. I stayed at the New World for 2 nights.

On the first night went to Catwalk there were quite a few hotties there but I can categorically tell you that girls from Catwalk cannot go back to your room in the hotel. The second floor connection to the hotel is under constant watch from the security guards at the lobby. I presume you could make a run for the lifts with the girl and hope the security won't be able to run up the steps in time to stop you. I however resisted this temptation.

Instead went to the Sauna in the same building as Catwalk. Lousy rooms, lousy girls and a average HJ followed. Not recommended.

Next night of to Renaissance hotel (I think) they have a KTV behind the hotel. This was very upmarket and the girls were stunning. Again the girls would not go back to the hotel. There were 3 guys and six girls and we got skinned for 3 million dong. Without any action. However the girls here were willing to come to any hotel during the day and were asking for US$150 short time. Did not try it.

Next day off to Hanoi and as I desperately needed to release the pent up frustration from the last few days checked straight into the Fortuna where I have stayed before. The spa at the top floor is fantastic with great massage and HJ available, alternatively all the girls will come to your room for some "boom boom". I just took the massage as I wanted to be ready for the boss club later on.

Boss is great no pretentions about what it is. Loads of girls all speaking varying amounts of English. Took 2 girls LT for US$75 each and had a fantastic time all night and into next morning.

Be Safe,

Dabeast

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Nonthab
07-13-07, 09:47
Hmmm, no replies. Surely someone can recommend me a suitable hotel in HCM! I'm a good poster, I've made several good contributions in the Thailand & Myanmar forums, somebody must know something about hotels.

MichaelTheOne
07-13-07, 11:40
I hope to be taking up a long term position in Vietnam soon. Just some quick questions to the Vietnam seniors.

1. I understand the the Govt has a tight control over internet access - Is there broadband access in HCMC & can this site be accessed in Vietnam.

2. I am planing to stay at one of those service aprt. Can Viet ladies come and visit unhindered.

Gotta do more homework - I'll shhot more questions as I learn more about the country.

OzzieSuds
07-13-07, 11:57
I hope to be taking up a long term position in Vietnam soon. Just some quick questions to the Vietnam seniors.

1. I understand the the Govt has a tight control over internet access - Is there broadband access in HCMC & can this site be accessed in Vietnam.

2. I am planing to stay at one of those service aprt. Can Viet ladies come and visit unhindered.

Gotta do more homework - I'll shhot more questions as I learn more about the country.

I dont have any trouble accessing this or similar sites from hotel office or even airport.

The serviced apartment scene can be a bit variable. I would suggest that you discreetly check before committing. One way to check would be to ask some of the gals in nearby bars. Even those that do allow guests will expect some discretion so that you are not disturbing other residents.

One thing I would not do is make a commitment to live here and work for a company without doing at least one check the scene visit first. And when you do that talk to some residents (such as at Shadow Bar or Club Italia on Dong Du) to make sure you are getting a fair deal.

MichaelTheOne
07-13-07, 12:19
Glad to get hold of you. I can see fdrom the numerous posts that your are the Grandmaster of Vietnam. Greetings Bro.

> I dont have any trouble accessing this or similar sites from hotel office or even airport.

Do the have broadband n HCMC ?

> The serviced apartment scene can be a bit variable. I would suggest that you discreetly check before committing. One way to check would be to ask some of the gals in nearby bars. Even those that do allow guests will expect some discretion so that you are not disturbing other residents.

Thanks for the advise. Where do you stay bro. ? Any headsup for any particular appt e.g The landmark, etc.

> One thing I would not do is make a commitment to live here and work for a company without doing at least one check the scene visit first. And when you do that talk to some residents (such as at Shadow Bar or Club Italia on Dong Du) to make sure you are getting a fair deal.

Thanks bro. once again. I am laying the ground work for my stay here. MY parent company is setting up operations in HCMC. I expect to be based here for at least 2 years. Wifey will not be joining me coz I can return home as and when I need to. So am laying ground work for my mongering activities. The game plan is to hook up with a local girl on LT basis BUT am guided by the seniors here.

OzzieSuds
07-15-07, 01:01
Glad to get hold of you. I can see fdrom the numerous posts that your are the Grandmaster of Vietnam. Greetings Bro.



Grandmaster I am definitely not - just one who has made a few mistakes and learned from them and avoided other mistakes by RTFF.

I use the small GF hotels in and around Mac Thi Boui. There are half a dozen in the area and I will not be more specific than that. Rates for balcony room are generally less than $30 including broadband and breakfast.

Beware of the LT thing - these girls dig their claws in deep.

Mai Yao
08-17-07, 14:37
1. I understand the the Govt has a tight control over internet access - Is there broadband access in HCMC & can this site be accessed in Vietnam.


I'm on my first visit to HCMC. Access to ISG from local internet shops seems to be on a shop by shop basis, Three different shops on De Tham were blocked, as soon as ISG came up, a little window in Vietnamese came-up and ISG shut down. The shop I'm in now on Bui Vien has access but also dozens of shrieking kids. It'll be a short browse.

Columpuss
08-17-07, 14:58
Michaeltheone

not before the forum's URL was changed to what it is now which contains the word sex in it. The local net shop owner can do that on their own will by entering key words into the browser to prevent kids from accessing real porn sites. I can access the site anywhere before when it was named isgforum. Usually the less well run net shops are the ones that do not block it.

B Bardill
08-17-07, 21:34
Man I've been trying to get hooked up with a company in HCMC area for a while. I've got almost 30 years experience in aerospace as a machinist, quality engineer, manufacturing engineer and supervisor and was looking for a consulting or liasion type job. How do you guys find these jobs that get you there for 2 years or so? My wife is from HCMC and I plan to go back there to live sometime, but would like to set up a job first. I know my way around HCMC pretty good and know a lot of the places that are talked about on the board, but I usually hang out in Quan 10, 8, 3 and sometimes get up to 1.

Columpuss
08-18-07, 05:51
Not that easy B Bardill

Most guys working for major companies here have grown from the root. They either requested or assigned to be here, but it doesn't hurt to try by hanging around the professional expat guys and network.

Most working here are English teachers. I find them to be very content. Students adore them because they want to practice conversational English and also the respect for teachers is paramount here. There is a shortage of teachers here. You can get TESOL certified and begin teaching. It beats being around the manufacturing environment everyday.

Good luck BB, not from Seattle are you?

B Bardill
08-18-07, 15:15
Yeah I realize it's not that easy to find a job there. I've been looking a long time although I still have another year or so before I could move there anyway. I have looked at the English teaching route and it fits into my plans. Since I have an engineering degree adding a TESOL cert wouldn't be that hard. I do know a good Viet English Teacher there that knows a lot of people for just that reason. He was my wifes teacher and we are pretty good friends.

I'm in LA area and grew up in Orange County when the Viet were coming here from the war. I think I probably dated one of the first Viet girls that came here in high school until her parents found out, then they forbade her from seeing me cause I was a white American boy. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.

Hey thanks a lot for the info anyway.

Cheap Meat
08-19-07, 08:12
I am wondering how you would get a girl to stay with you all night without running into problems with the police. The supposed 'law' is that a Vietnamese girl cannot stay with a foreigner in his HOTEL. However, what if you stay with a girl in her apartment room or something like that? Is that considered the same thing?

I am thinking of ways to bypass the law because in these reports there is a lot of problems with the police interfering with things because a girl stayed with the guy in his hotel room.

Also, I'm considering staying in Vung Tau or Nha Trang for some beach action. Is it possible to do some shanagans with ladies right there on the beach? Just wondering because it might be better than being harassed in a hotel or massage parlor by the cops. It's just another idea of ways that I can bypass the police and their stupid harassment.

OzzieSuds
08-20-07, 01:03
Cheap meat - most of the apartments I have seen are a mess and I would not want to do the deed let alone stay there.

There are ST hotels in SGN but you just have to be careful.

There are reports on Vung Tau under other places. Not sure about ST hotels but anything over $30 seems to be non-GF. The beaches seem to be crowded day and night and I would not imagine a Viet girl doing it on the beach. Besides - the sand tends to upset the lubrication.

AmericanThief
08-21-07, 03:26
My Viet girl stayed with me in my hotel in HCMC and in Nha Trang. No problems. I don't understand your concern.

OzzieSuds
08-22-07, 02:53
My Viet girl stayed with me in my hotel in HCMC and in Nha Trang. No problems. I don't understand your concern.

The reality is that all of the 3 Star and better hotels will not allow you to bring gals back in the evening. Some are more lenient during the day and some will allow the girl if you take and pay for an extra room. Not my idea of GF.

This is enshrined in HCMC regulations (see the back of the hotel door) but many of the smaller hotels will accommodate nocturnal visitors.

I am not sure what reaction you would get if you and your girl arrived together with baggage to check in. That might be viewed differently to nocturnal visitors.

Pak Mike
08-23-07, 00:01
I am not sure what reaction you would get if you and your girl arrived together with baggage to check in. That might be viewed differently to nocturnal visitors.

Simple, you will be asked for a copy of your marriage certificate!

Ozirob
08-23-07, 00:17
Simple, you will be asked for a copy of your marriage certificate!

Yep, Somewhere in the archives of a resort in NhaTrang is a signed statement saying i am married to a particular girl.......

Repeating myself from earlier posts, but i have several times taken girls that i meet (and like) in HCMC to other towns - DaLat, NhaTrang, and had no problems checking in to any hotel (only one asked for the signature on the marriage document)

Provided you are careful about who you choose to spend a few days with full time, it is alot of fun!

Ozirob

SaltyDog
08-25-07, 01:14
Yeah I realize it's not that easy to find a job there. I've been looking a long time although I still have another year or so before I could move there anyway. I have looked at the English teaching route and it fits into my plans. Since I have an engineering degree adding a TESOL cert wouldn't be that hard. I do know a good Viet English Teacher there that knows a lot of people for just that reason. He was my wifes teacher and we are pretty good friends.

I'm in LA area and grew up in Orange County when the Viet were coming here from the war. I think I probably dated one of the first Viet girls that came here in high school until her parents found out, then they forbade her from seeing me cause I was a white American boy. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.

Hey thanks a lot for the info anyway.I thought Orange County was in Florida. It seems you know your way around Saigon pretty good. Are there still any good bia om in Q1? There used to be one I liked in back of Rex but now closed. It was very loud and many pretty girls anxious to get my phone number for later meetings. Too bad it's closed.

SaltyDog
08-28-07, 04:46
These places change names pretty often, and also close. A bar by that name isn't ringing a bell. Where was it? Any landmarks nearby? If you are talking about "Lost in Saigon", that one shut for good, never reopened, though the owners started a new bar downtown called Lush which is very successful. Not as seedy as the old one, bigger, much more fashionable, and higher end. It's on the corner at the start of Ly Tu Truong.I was in Saigon during this time and went to a Bia Om in back of the city hall. The city hall was behind the Rex Hotel. This place was really good to get phone numbers exchanged. I went looking for it this March and it was not open. Is this the same place you're talking about? If not is there another place to get a cold beer and meet them gai dep qua?

BangBangBang
09-08-07, 09:30
Hi,

Is it easy to get around speaking Chinese in VN? Are there areas where Chinese is frequently spoken? What about French?

Cheers,

BBB

Columpuss
09-09-07, 03:37
BBB

District 5 is the China town of Saigon. For the general population, i would say
1 in 10. Nodody knows French anymore but the elderly population. Why can't you stick with English

OzzieSuds
09-09-07, 14:02
I work in Vietnam with Singaporean clients and they quite often find that a few words in Hokkien get across better than English. French is pretty dead now.

Bold Focker
09-20-07, 23:38
Can someone help me with airlines that fly to Ho Chi Minh City.
I have looked at Jet star and tiger, but these times are not good.
I want to fly from clarke in Philippines to Ho Chi Minh City in one day with no overnight stop. Any help appreciated!

BF

Columpuss
09-21-07, 03:34
focker

Read my post in the hochiminh thread. Also, there is no direct from clark

El Frances
09-21-07, 21:11
The official regulation in vietnam is that you are supposed to be allowed to register one vietnamese girl with you in your room if you check-in with this girl when yourself check-in in this hotel. That's the rule, but it's vietnam so:
- large hotels usually apply this rule, but may refuse if the girl is from the same town and may locally be filed as prostitute. For example in Nha Trang, it's easy to check-in with a girl from HCMC, much more difficult if she's from Nha Trang. They will usually not allow you to bring a girl to your room overnight after you have checked-in alone (or they will ask you to rent an extra room).
- small private hotels (minihotels) may be subject of police trying to get money from them, whatever it is officialy allowed or not, and still ask you to book a second room so that they don't have to pay the police,
- small private hotel may not have any problem with police but will take the opportunity to get more money from you by pretending you have to book an extra room,
- some minihotels pay the police anyway, so that when there is a police raid, the police phones them before to warn them. In this case, you only have to book one room (but OK, it's vietnam, so if they feel they can do it, they may take the opportunity to get more dollars from you, that's the game!)
In any case, there's no other way than asking directly and be ready to go to another place if you are not satisfyed with the answer

LexLuther
09-21-07, 23:13
BBB,

Chinese is spoken in the Cholon district of TPHCM (Saigon). But better if you can learn a bit of Vietnamese. Many Vietnamese now speak a bit of English, especially educated one.

LexLuther

Nonthab
10-02-07, 05:37
Where is the best place to exchange money? The airport & hotels seem to give you a rotten rate, losing about 1/3 of your money.

Cheers.

Namsao
10-02-07, 11:51
where is the best place to exchange money? the airport & hotels seem to give you a rotten rate, losing about 1/3 of your money.

cheers.the best places to change money are banks and the registered money changing shops rep001tered around the tourist areas. you will need to show your passport at the banks but not at the money changers. do not use random touts for money changing or risk being ripped off! most shops, caps, and restaurants also accept usd at competitive rates.

Dragonfly22
10-02-07, 17:06
Banks give the best rate I've found but have large denominations, $100's and $50's only and in excellent condition. The higher the note the better the rate you get.

Dragonfly

Nonthab
10-03-07, 05:06
Thanks for your quick replies, I'll check out the banks.

I'm actually going the other way, changing Baht to Dong. Or would I be best to change most to $'s? I'm staying there long term so I need to get thi sorted properly.

Member #2041
10-03-07, 13:48
In my trip to Vietnam in September, the best rate I got anywhere was, surprisingly, at a place in Hanoi Airport, where I got 16230 per dollar, and no added commission. The best I got anywhere else was 16220, and most places were offerring only 16200. At the time, the official rate was 16245 per dollar

Co Van My
10-03-07, 20:51
Gold shops often give a very attractive street rate.

Asian Steve 22
10-25-07, 18:40
Yep, the jewelry shops are the best places to go. Banks charge an exchange fee of like 3-5%, alot more than what jewelry places take from you. Of course that exchange fee is waived if you banked locally at an HSBC or Citibank and show them your card. Or better yet, just use their ATMs if you got a citi or HSBC debit card.

OzzieSuds
10-31-07, 00:34
Does any one live in Nam? Know anything about the viet culture? Could you briefly explain your thoughts on this country? I've been to Thailand, is it the same or different? I have met a lady here who has other family married in the states. She wants to come back with me to the U.S. . Any factual accounting is welcomed. You may pm me-Regards.

There is a lot of information in the forum about life in Vietnam and some comparisons with Thailand. Even some discussion about the pros and cons of permanent take-out.

The commercial scene in HCMC is much less obvious than BKK but cheaper. There are bars in D1 with takeout and Bia Oms on other Districts where generally only Viet is spoken. Hanoi is as good as dead. HCMC also has a Disco scene with FL ladies and there are many ordinary girls happy to chat and more.

ParnellCat
11-01-07, 07:14
[QUOTE=Smoke & Mirrors]Thanks, but i'm looking for validated opinions, not just speculations. Anyone? The lady in question is not a sex worker, but rather a family girl (only one) leaving college shortly, looking to venture out of vn. She has family in both countries. I've spoken many times with her cousin, and her husband who have been together for 9 years here in the U.S. She has other family members here too.

Are vn women different from other se asian women, or generally should they be lumped in the same catagories? I await your replies. Thanks.

To be honest there is no real answer to your question as any observation is going to be a generalisation or from such a small sample base as to be inconclusive.

I love Vietnamese girls and Vietnamese culture but I'm not convinced they travel well as every element of their culture is about the support system and interrelationships of the family.

Having said that there are a few who want to escape that and lead a totally different life.
A key point to consider is whether she wants to go to America for the illusion of America, ( It's like the movies), or the reality of America.

If she has a strong support base of family or other Vietnamese in the place where you live, then your chances of it working are exponentially higher.

As someone who lives in Vietnam, that one point is more important than just about all others, in regard to Vietnamese women moving overseas.

As to your other question I think all SE Asia women are different from each other.

OzzieSuds
11-01-07, 11:33
Risk is all over, i just wanted some opinions from guys who have possibly hooked up with NON WORKING GIRLS If by chance.

I have a couple of non-working gals in Saigon that I see on a regular basis. In the end it is hard work but worth it. One is a hairdresser with crazy working hours and the other is university educated and operates an antique shop with her parents.

I am certainly not getting into a permanent relationship with either of them and I think that they both understand that the deal is short term whilst I remain in Vietnam on a regular basis. That does not mean that I do not have to deal with lots of jealousy and heartaches etc - especially if I tell them I am busy so that I can then go get take-out.

My observation of Vietnamese people in general in both Australia and in California is that they tend to stick together and not mix with others very much. Maybe the next generation will be different.

B Bardill
11-01-07, 18:52
I'm married to a VN girl that was just an average girl. She worked with her sister in a clothing shop that they owned and her family is in Saigon except for one brother that lives in Switzerland. She came here to California 3 years ago when we got married. She is the most wonderful girl I have ever met and takes care of me way better than any other woman I have known. She is thrifty and very conciencious over money(tight wad). She misses her family there but there are no plans for them to come here. She works and still takes care of the house and is very happy here, although misses her family and we go visit every year. Thank god for the net or my phone bill would be huge, but she talks to them everyday. They are not poor by VN standards, more middle class as her mom and dad are retired and her dad has made some good money in real estate that he put away. Just my opinion that there are a lot of gems in the mix, just have to sift through them. I wasn't even looking for something when we met and neither was she.


I'm fully aware this is a *hore board.Thanks, but i'm looking for validated opinions, not just speculations. Anyone? The lady in question is not a sex worker, but rather a family girl (only one) leaving college shortly, looking to venture out of vn. She has family in both countries. I've spoken many times with her cousin, and her husband who have been together for 9 years here in the U.S. She has other family members here too.

Are vn women different from other se asian women, or generally should they be lumped in the same catagories? I await your replies. Thanks.

Risk is all over, i just wanted some opinions from guys who have possibly hooked up with NON WORKING GIRLS If by chance.

OzzieSuds
11-07-07, 04:43
I'm fully aware this is a *hore board.

I think we need to recognise that some of the so-called freebie action is not that far removed from P4P. Many of these freebie gals are looking to improve their position in life or get some more of the better things so a relationship with a foreign visitor is one way to do that.

Cowa Banga
11-14-07, 02:54
M Dape Wa/ Sister so beautiful.

Chow M/ Hello sister.

Member #2041
11-14-07, 03:20
Congratulations on your happy outcome. Just an observation, though, if everything is as wonderful as you make it out to be, WTF are you still cruising this forum?


I'm married to a VN girl that was just an average girl. She worked with her sister in a clothing shop that they owned and her family is in Saigon except for one brother that lives in Switzerland. She came here to California 3 years ago when we got married. She is the most wonderful girl I have ever met and takes care of me way better than any other woman I have known. She is thrifty and very conciencious over money(tight wad). She misses her family there but there are no plans for them to come here. She works and still takes care of the house and is very happy here, although misses her family and we go visit every year. Thank god for the net or my phone bill would be huge, but she talks to them everyday. They are not poor by VN standards, more middle class as her mom and dad are retired and her dad has made some good money in real estate that he put away. Just my opinion that there are a lot of gems in the mix, just have to sift through them. I wasn't even looking for something when we met and neither was she.

AdHome01
11-14-07, 05:28
I would like to learn some VN vernacular. Any places you guys recommend?Try Pimsleur or Rosetta Stone, both can be found free on Usenet under alt.binaries.world-languages.

Obroni
11-15-07, 18:52
I would like to learn some VN vernacular. Any places you guys recommend?Try here :

http://www.byki.com/

Basic version is for free.

B Bardill
11-16-07, 02:18
Congratulations on your happy outcome. Just an observation, though, if everything is as wonderful as you make it out to be, WTF are you still cruising this forum?Just like all the rest of the people on this forum, I still cruise and look. I occasionally like to have a little variety and partake on occasion.

OzzieSuds
11-16-07, 07:39
Just like all the rest of the people on this forum, I still cruise and look. I occasionally like to have a little variety and partake on occasion.

Ahem - urrrgh Variety is the spice of life!

Asian Western
01-04-08, 04:59
A report about the brothel scene in Hanoi with directions and prices!

685582I too found the same location last month and visited it 9 times using 3 girls. I was taken by a motorbike boy referred by Hotel Win in Old Quarter. I love massive pussy hair and these young girls had this! So far my best experience in SE Asia. The price, tipping etc for me was same. But very good value hence my repeats night after night. Got some pics attached. I can give you name of establishment (I found just three) as I got calling card. Just PM me.

Atrussel
01-16-08, 17:36
Hi Everyone. Really enjoy reading all your posts.

I have a question:

I'm coming to Vietnam in Feb with my girlfriend (couple days in HCMC, but mostly in North Vietnam). She's really into picking up a working girl together. Anything from watching me get a BJ in a massage parour, to bringing WG to hotel to watch me have sex, to having her join in as a 3some (maybe with a strapon).

So. Any advice on how to make this happen? Is this an unusual request? Are many WG's bisexual? Is it cool for couples to go into massage parlours, Fontana, etc or do mamasans freak out? Will a WG go to a hotel with a couple? Should I expect to pay a lot extra for this "special" service? Any places in Hanoi or HCMC that are better for hooking this up?

Looking forward to any advice.

Thanks!

Poppasan
01-18-08, 02:30
All you need to do is tell the girl your dinner plans and how much and she will be willing. I found a girl willing to do two guys at the same time so I don't see why you can't find one that will do you and your lady at the same time. That was for $80 for the two of us. Happy Hunting.




Hi Everyone. Really enjoy reading all your posts.

I have a question:

I'm coming to Vietnam in Feb with my girlfriend (couple days in HCMC, but mostly in North Vietnam). She's really into picking up a working girl together. Anything from watching me get a BJ in a massage parour, to bringing WG to hotel to watch me have sex, to having her join in as a 3some (maybe with a strapon).

So. Any advice on how to make this happen? Is this an unusual request? Are many WG's bisexual? Is it cool for couples to go into massage parlours, Fontana, etc or do mamasans freak out? Will a WG go to a hotel with a couple? Should I expect to pay a lot extra for this "special" service? Any places in Hanoi or HCMC that are better for hooking this up?

Looking forward to any advice.

Thanks!

OzzieSuds
01-18-08, 21:21
Hi Everyone. Really enjoy reading all your posts.

I have a question:

I'm coming to Vietnam in Feb with my girlfriend (couple days in HCMC, but mostly in North Vietnam). She's really into picking up a working girl together. Anything from watching me get a BJ in a massage parour, to bringing WG to hotel to watch me have sex, to having her join in as a 3some (maybe with a strapon).

So. Any advice on how to make this happen? Is this an unusual request? Are many WG's bisexual? Is it cool for couples to go into massage parlours, Fontana, etc or do mamasans freak out? Will a WG go to a hotel with a couple? Should I expect to pay a lot extra for this "special" service? Any places in Hanoi or HCMC that are better for hooking this up?

Looking forward to any advice.

Thanks!

You should find what you want in the bars on Hai Bai Trung in HCMC. Don't bother with the massage places - they will freak out.

Phordphan
01-25-08, 06:15
Hi, all

I’ve been reading as much as I can in this particular section, as I’ll be making my first trip to VN in March.

I’ve been all over Thailand, Cambodia and parts of Myanmar. I posted a bunch of trip reports in the Burma thread last year, in case anybody’s curious. Therefore, I’m somewhat familiar with this part of the world.

So, enough of the bona fides. I’m hoping that some of you can assist with a couple of questions.

I’m only going to have about 6 days in VN this trip. Besides the ladies, I want to see some of the war sites (Cu Chi, Museum of American Aggression or whatever the hell they call it now, etc.), some of the beaches and, maybe, Hue. Can anybody recommend an itinerary that might cover most of these in the allotted time?

My MO in other countries is to get a “tour guide” to spend the time with me. From reading the threads, it looks like this may not be an option. Am I correct? If not, any suggestions?

Maybe I missed it, but what’s the best way to exchange USD for VND? Are ATMs an option, or is it best to take some Benjamins?

For flights to Hue, is it OK to just go to the airport and buy a ticket, or is it better to book in advance? Same question for hotels.

That’s all I can think of for now. I’m really looking forward to seeing VietNam. If anybody’s around mid-March, and wants to hook up for a drink, the first round’s on me.

Thanks

PP

Nonthab
01-25-08, 15:57
Hi Phordphan,

I've been living in HCMC for 4 months now so I'll try to answer your questions.

From Saigon you can book day trips to Cu Chi tunnels & many other places for about 6$. Just book thru your hotel when you get there. I haven't been to any beaches yet, so can't help you there. There are available hotels everywhere I'm sure. But booking flights early should save you some $'s but there should be space if you want to leave it to the last minute.

As for $'s virtually all hotels & travel agencies will happily take dollars so you can bring a heap of them. They can easily be exchanged for Dong many places at about 16000VND per $. You can also use ATM's no problem or travellers cheques or over the counter Credit Card withdrawels with a 3% fee.
So bring some with you, get more when you need it. There are some places that accept Dong only, usually less touristy places, so be prepared for that.

I'll be here in March for sure, I'll have my membership activated soon so ya can contact me if ya like.

Dragonfly22
01-25-08, 20:37
Some beaches nearby would be Vung Tao, an 1 1/2 hour boat ride from HCMC or Mue Nie about a 3 or 4 hr bus ride. Vietnam Airline offices can book your ticket to Hue, my favorite hotel is the SaiGon Morin in Hue, but there are some cheaper and just as nice. Location is best at the Morin. No need for a guide but companionship is a must..... pm me for my GF hotels.

OzzieSuds
01-27-08, 01:24
[QUOTE=Phordp

My MO in other countries is to get a “tour guide” to spend the time with me. From reading the threads, it looks like this may not be an option. Am I correct? If not, any suggestions?

PP[/QUOTE]

If you keep your eyes and ears open in and around District 1 you will probably find a young lady who wants to 'practise her english' and who will be happy to show you around and probably more. Be polite and smile a lot. Same applies to the ferry terminal area at Vung Tau or even on the ferry to and from VT.

Phordphan
01-29-08, 07:46
Hi Phordphan,

I've been living in HCMC for 4 months now so I'll try to answer your questions.

From Saigon you can book day trips to Cu Chi tunnels & many other places for about 6$. Just book thru your hotel when you get there. I haven't been to any beaches yet, so can't help you there. There are available hotels everywhere I'm sure. But booking flights early should save you some $'s but there should be space if you want to leave it to the last minute.

As for $'s virtually all hotels & travel agencies will happily take dollars so you can bring a heap of them. They can easily be exchanged for Dong many places at about 16000VND per $. You can also use ATM's no problem or travellers cheques or over the counter Credit Card withdrawels with a 3% fee.
So bring some with you, get more when you need it. There are some places that accept Dong only, usually less touristy places, so be prepared for that.

I'll be here in March for sure, I'll have my membership activated soon so ya can contact me if ya like.

Thanks for the tips. I'll bring some $$ and a couple of ATMs.

I'll try to PM you later, as the plans firm up.

PP

Phordphan
01-29-08, 07:59
Some beaches nearby would be Vung Tao, an 1 1/2 hour boat ride from HCMC or Mue Nie about a 3 or 4 hr bus ride. Vietnam Airline offices can book your ticket to Hue, my favorite hotel is the SaiGon Morin in Hue, but there are some cheaper and just as nice. Location is best at the Morin. No need for a guide but companionship is a must..... pm me for my GF hotels.

Thanks! No doubt about it, companionship is a definite must! :-)

I looked at the Morin's web site. It looks like a nice place. Have you tried any of their tours?

Usually I book a double and get less static about guests, but that's in Thailand and Cambodia. Is it worth doing in VN, or a waste of money?

I'll PM you later, as plans firm up.

PP

Phordphan
01-29-08, 07:59
If you keep your eyes and ears open in and around District 1 you will probably find a young lady who wants to 'practise her english' and who will be happy to show you around and probably more. Be polite and smile a lot. Same applies to the ferry terminal area at Vung Tau or even on the ferry to and from VT.

Thanks! I'll give it a try.

Also, is Vung Tau a day trip, or is it more of an overnight thing?

PP

OzzieSuds
01-29-08, 08:35
Thanks! I'll give it a try.

Also, is Vung Tau a day trip, or is it more of an overnight thing?

PP

Can be either.

Member #2041
01-30-08, 02:45
Some beaches nearby would be Vung Tao, an 1 1/2 hour boat ride from HCMC or Mue Nie about a 3 or 4 hr bus ride. Vietnam Airline offices can book your ticket to Hue, my favorite hotel is the SaiGon Morin in Hue, but there are some cheaper and just as nice. Location is best at the Morin. No need for a guide but companionship is a must..... pm me for my GF hotels.

I booked my internal Vietnam flights (Hanoi-Hue, and Danang-HCMC) in advance through a highly reputable travel agency named Buffalo Tours - they got me the domestic price (under $60 for each flight), which was far less than on Expedia. They also booked me some of my other tourist-type arrangements, such as my 2 day-1 night trip to Halong Bay. They delivered my plane tickets to my hotel in Hanoi.

www.buffalotours.com

In Hue, I stayed at the Orchid hotel. It was quite nice, and cost under $25/night, but I doubt it would have been guest friendly.

Saigon Daze
01-30-08, 11:12
Hi Phordphan,

I've been living in HCMC for 4 months now so I'll try to answer your questions.

From Saigon you can book day trips to Cu Chi tunnels & many other places for about 6$. Just book thru your hotel when you get there. I haven't been to any beaches yet, so can't help you there. There are available hotels everywhere I'm sure. But booking flights early should save you some $'s but there should be space if you want to leave it to the last minute.

As for $'s virtually all hotels & travel agencies will happily take dollars so you can bring a heap of them. They can easily be exchanged for Dong many places at about 16000VND per $. You can also use ATM's no problem or travellers cheques or over the counter Credit Card withdrawels with a 3% fee.
So bring some with you, get more when you need it. There are some places that accept Dong only, usually less touristy places, so be prepared for that.I wouldn't bring heaps of US $. Not necessary. There are ATM's everywhere in the main cities and you'll be paying more if you use USD instead of Dong. And the price for flights isn't cheaper if you book in advance, unless the airline has a price hike. If you want to pre-book flights before your arrival, you can use these guys. http://english.ivivu.com/

Phordphan
01-30-08, 23:27
I wouldn't bring heaps of US $. Not necessary. There are ATM's everywhere in the main cities and you'll be paying more if you use USD instead of Dong. And the price for flights isn't cheaper if you book in advance, unless the airline has a price hike. If you want to pre-book flights before your arrival, you can use these guys. http://english.ivivu.com/

Thanx. I usually use ATM when in Thailand (no point in Cambodia, not possible in Myanmar). But on my last trip I found that my frippin' bank's service fees more than mads up for their slight advantage in exchange rate, and it actually cost more to use the ATM than to change a $100 at a change counter. :-(

Are the domestic flights all handled by Vietnam Air, or are there others?

PP

Nonthab
01-31-08, 07:19
Pacific Airlines also do domestic, they're usually cheaper than Vietnam air, although on board service is limited to a very short menu.

You can catch the hydrofoil to Vung Tau, takes about 1.5 hours.

Phordphan
02-01-08, 06:51
Pacific Airlines also do domestic, they're usually cheaper than Vietnam air, although on board service is limited to a very short menu.

You can catch the hydrofoil to Vung Tau, takes about 1.5 hours.

Good call on Pacific Airlines! Their web site is better than VNA's, but it's all in Viet, so a bit difficult for me to decipher. But it looks like their SGN-HUI flights are about $20 cheaper than VNA. Maybe I'll go to a travel agent in Little Saigon and have 'em book them for me.

Do you know if they fly out of Suvarnabhumi or Don Muang? I'm thinking of taking them from BKK to SGN, too.

Thanks

PP

Playsafe
02-02-08, 04:02
A quick google & this is what I found:

A43 Truong Son, Tan Binh District,
Ho Chi Minh City
Phone: +84 8 885 0188
Fax: +84 8 845 8119

Nonthab
02-02-08, 06:12
PP

They do fly out of Suvarnabhumi (BKK). The website I went to was in English... http://www.pacificairlines.com.vn/Search.aspx?Culture=en-US


You might have to select English somewhere on the page the first time you go there.

Cheapist flights into here is Air Asia but they only fly to Hanoi, A Viet version of AirAsia is supposed to start up this year with cheap flights from Saigon.

Saigon Daze
02-02-08, 07:09
PP

They do fly out of Suvarnabhumi (BKK). The website I went to was in English... http://www.pacificairlines.com.vn/Search.aspx?Culture=en-US

You might have to select English somewhere on the page the first time you go there.

Cheapist flights into here is Air Asia but they only fly to Hanoi, A Viet version of AirAsia is supposed to start up this year with cheap flights from Saigon.Pacific Airways doesn't actually fly to BKK. They have a code share agreement with Bangkok Airways, so the flights are operated by Bangkok Airways flight crews on BKK Air aircraft (which is much better than in Pacific was doing it).

Nonthab
02-02-08, 16:00
Very true SD & the aircraft & the service is much better than on Pacific flights.

Member #2041
02-02-08, 22:18
I have found that the best deals between Bangkok and Vietnam are with Air France. I did my open jaw Round trip for around $245 on Air France booked through Expedia last September. Air Asia flies Bangkok to Hanoi, but not to HCMC

Best thing about Air France is that you can buy an open-jaw ticket that flies from Bangkok into Hanoi and out of HCMC back to Bangkok (or vice versa) for the same price as the round trip flights. This way, one only needs to fly one way between Hanoi and HCMC on a Vietnamese carrier.

Also, Vietnam Airlines has excellent service and flies reasonably new equipment (Airbus A320s and A321s averaging 7.5 years of age) - Pacific Air flies older 737s acquired second hand averaging 14 years of age.

I was really happy to spend $58 each on my Vietnam Airlines flights from Hanoi to Hue and Danang to HCMC last September. Combined with my Air France flights from and to Bangkok, My entire Vietnam trip cost me just under $365 in airfare, with flights from Bangkok to Hanoi, Hanoi to Hue, Danang to HCMC, and HCMC to Bangkok.

Phordphan
02-03-08, 04:10
Pacific Airways doesn't actually fly to BKK. They have a code share agreement with Bangkok Airways, so the flights are operated by Bangkok Airways flight crews on BKK Air aircraft (which is much better than in Pacific was doing it).

Thanks, all you guyz! Great info.

I'm really happy to hear about Bangkok Airways. They're my fave in the region.

I'll check out the English site now. I looked, but couldn't find a link to an English verion. Maybe it was written in Viet! :-)

PP

Royal Blue
02-14-08, 15:53
May have already been asked, but what's the English situation over there? Is it the assumed second language or is that still French?

PoopieMunster
02-15-08, 06:21
May have already been asked, but what's the English situation over there? Is it the assumed second language or is that still French?English is the assumed second language, but French is still usable to a certain extent. Problem will be a majority of the people you deal with are barely understandable english. So mostly point and say.

Saigon Daze
02-17-08, 06:26
english is the assumed second language, but french is still usable to a certain extent. problem will be a majority of the people you deal with are barely understandable english. so mostly point and say.french isn't taught in school anymore and you very rarely here it being spoken by a vietnamese. english will get you buy just fine.

PoopieMunster
02-18-08, 16:32
French isn't taught in school anymore and you very rarely here it being spoken by a Vietnamese. English will get you buy just fine.I can only assume that you are here in Saigon, when you are reading this. I did say that ENGLISH is the assumed second language. French is still a language that a portion of the older generation has learned. I have found that 1 in 20 Vietnamese understand French still, whereas the younger generation has a better understanding of English. To be honest though, you have to understand that English is a basic requirement in grade school and high school, but English, French, Japanese, and Korean, etc., are languages that are mastered at secondary language schools.

OzzieSuds
02-18-08, 20:39
You don't find too many old people in Vietnam and therefore you do not meet many french speakers. It is a generational thing that was basically cut off by the war.

Many people have a smattering of Cantonese but the language they all want to learn is english. And it is quite difficult for them.

This is one of the great bonusses of being a westerner in Vietnam is that all the nice girls you see on the street or in the shops are keen to practice their english and this makes it easy to make contact and maybe get something going.

But remember - these so-called freebies are never free!

Royal Blue
02-26-08, 06:41
This is one of the great bonusses of being a westerner in Vietnam is that all the nice girls you see on the street or in the shops are keen to practice their english and this makes it easy to make contact and maybe get something going.

But remember - these so-called freebies are never free!Certainly in the past it was mostly bargirls etc. who would put out before marriage... though that is changing pretty fast over there, viz. their recent Paris Hilton-esque moment with their most popular teen starlet.

And as for non-pro gold-diggers, well, you just have to be careful.

LexLuther
02-28-08, 23:05
I have been to LOS, Malay. I was recently in VN and noticed the males giving me the evil eye when walking around with my gal. Is this the norm? The other se asian countries never seemed to be so small minded. A few even made lewd comments at her, which she clearly responded appropriately ;) It's clear to me that all the good looking vn women are exiting the country leaving the average and ugly ones for the local dim witted natives :p

Unfortunately what you describe is characteristic of the mindset of VN males. I was there during the war and have been back to visit several times. The hardest thing to understand is how a VN family can and will exploit their own flesh and blood by living off the money she makes as a prostitute. But at the same time they will treat her like an outcast for doing so. In most cases, if a girl has a legitimate relationship with a westerner, the family will still condemn her and treat her as a pariah.

Yet they will expect her to contribute to the family's well being by sending money back to them since they figure she can now afford it.

I made the mistake of marrying a VN woman in the early 70's. This woman's family later escaped by boat after the government fell in 75. I rescued them from two different refugee camps in Malaysia and Thailand and brought them to the U.S. I kept them all (13 of them) in my tiny house until I could get them much needed medical care, clothing, jobs, and eventually a place to live.

They rewarded me by opposing everything I tried to do for them. Yet they still expected me to send money and other valuable things to the lone daughter who remained in VN. They have hated me since then with a viciousness that is impossible for me to understand. My wife and I subsequently divorced but they have always treated her like an outcast, while at the same time excoriating her for not bestowing largesse on them. The ironic thing is that they are all well off now, having prospered greatly in this country.

I've never been able to understand the VN mindset except to say that they are incredibly ignorant, superstitious, and hateful people who have no idea whatsoever what the American way of life is all about. I can't help thinking that the communist way of life which prevails in their country is some kind of fitting punishment bestowed upon them as a race by a just God.

LexLuther

Fw190
02-29-08, 02:38
This posting is especially meant for Lex Luther and Co Van My, the "old hands" who have warned previously about what I am going to tell. My short story could be titled "Tales of the Innocent Western Traveler"....

Last September I posted a report after a visit to Saigon, in which I said that I had decided to help a young masseuse that I met. She was strikingly attractive, came from the Mekong Delta to work in the big city, and was sending money home to support her parents. She worked 6 days a week until early in the a.m., attended English class in the morning, and then reported to work in the massage parlor. Sending almost all her earnings back home; no motorbike and other luxuries here. I was really impressed by the loyalty, strength, intelligence, and innocence of this most attractive creature who is working day and night. So I paid her much more than the going rate and vowed to give her some small financial support each time I came to Saigon.

So here it is in early 2008, I'm in the same hotel, go up for a massage, am recognized by this same young beauty and treated like an old friend (as I had hoped). I'm charmed out of my mind. I pay handsomely for a good massage. She asks me to buy her a gift. Later I give her money to buy a dress that she said she's got her eye on. Next day she gets off work at 6 and will go shopping -- she asks if I want to join her for a quick dinner before she goes shopping. I jump at the chance. So I go to the address and meet her in a small cafe. And there she is, looking 10+ in a natural way, dressed as an ordinary person (no hyped up bargirl stuff). And with her is a friend and HER MOTHER!!! WTF??? Everyone rattles on and on in Vietnamese throughout, and I'm sitting there not understanding a word, but knowing they're talking about this foolish foreigner sitting with them. So this painful experience eventually ends, and we all go outside and they get ready to go shopping. They tell me to leave first, so I walk down the street to my hotel. What was all that about? Did she really own a motorbike that she didn't want me to see?

So 1 hour later, as I'm reading in bed, I get a text message from this angel, who reports that the dress turned out to be very expensive, around $100. I don't reply, suspecting ulterior motives. Another hour or so later, another text message, asking if I was angry. I reply "Of course not." She sends another message sweetly wishing me a good night and asking me to contact her again tomorrow at work.

Ah, what a mixed pleasure it is to meet someone as attractive, smart, and pure (yes, really) as this young lady, and to know that I'm being manipulated like crazy at the same time. But it's not an easy life for these folks, and in their eyes us Westerners appear to be filthy rich -- so I can't blame them for
trying. So I guess the bottom line for me is that during the few days I have left in Saigon, I'll willingly let myself be manipulated and enjoy the experience. I wanted to help this young gal financially, so I guess I'm doing it, but not exactly in the way I had thought. These Vietnamese are talented and tough -- no wonder they outlasted the US in the war.

LexLuther
02-29-08, 03:04
FW190,

First I must apologize publicly to S&M. I had no intention to put a damper on whatever it is you have going for yourself. I wish you all the best and hope that your situation turns out for the best for both you and yours.

However FW190's post reminds me of an experience I had in 2001. A VN woman whom I knew in the U.S. owned a restaurant in the city where I live. She had fixed her oldest son up with a woman from her hometown of My Tho (in the Delta). This woman was beautiful, apparently intelligent, and appeared to be the ideal bride for the son.

Over a period of time I discussed with the restaurant owner the possibility of her fixing me up with someone appropriate for me from My Tho. Long story short, she found someone and this woman and I exchanged photos. Her English was not good enough to exchange letters or phone calls and in any case she had no phone.

So I traveled to VN in 2001 in order to meet her. The woman had never been married as far as I know. She was in her 40's and not bad looking although she needed a good bit of dental work. I had taken a hotel in TPHCM and invited this woman to come and stay at the hotel. Everything was done with great care on my part not to presume on the integrity or reputation of this woman. She insisted on a separate room and brought a sort of duane (not sure of the spelling on that) or chaperone who was her niece. I took them both shopping and bought them some nice 24K gold jewelry at the Ben Thanh market in TPHCM. I took them to eat, to do some sightseeing, etc.

I even had a landline phone installed in her family home in My Tho so that we could communicate (using an interpreter) once I returned home to the U.S. However given my experience with my first wife, I was wary. What turned the whole thing sour for me was that before I left she asked me to buy motorbikes for the men in her family.

I may have been at fault in having been too generous. I'm also sure that her brothers and father probably goaded her into this (to me) ridiculous request which may have seemed quite natural to her. But it scared me off.

I feel bad about it to this day as I was excoriated by the restaurant owner for having ruined the woman's reputation, scarred her for life, etc. But I believe I made the correct decision.

LexLuther

Fw190
02-29-08, 03:31
Motorbikes for all the men in her family!!!! Ha ha ha! That sure beats the $100 dress or bottle of perfume that my young sweetie is asking for. She's got to learn to set her sights higher! Ha ha! Thanks for sharing that great story, LexLuther.





she asked me to buy motorbikes for the men in her family.

LexLuther

LexLuther
02-29-08, 04:35
S&M,

You make a good point. I think that the western (or at least American) tradition or understanding that a good marriage is a sort of partnership between equals who support and nurture one another may not be fully embraced by women in a culture such as one finds in Vietnam. I think the modern American ideal is that marriage should not be an arrangement by which the man pays for sex but that it should be an arrangement in which both partners share equally in the joys as well as the frustrations of life together. How closely one ever achieves such an arrangement is of course open to argument. But I think that's the conceit as they say in the theater.

As I said in my post and in my PM, your situation may be different since you seem to have found a high born lady for yourself, a lady of breeding, education, and wealth. I hope with all my heart that this situation proves in future to be as idyllic as you now perceive it to be. Who know? Perhaps the nature of Vietnamese culture is changing.

I remember, however, that when I was first there I was quite interested in the ways in which it differed from what I was used to as an American. I sought out various books on Vietnamese culture, history, art, language, tradition, etc. Most of what I found were either written by Vietnamese who had a sort of supernatural or at least mythical view of their history and origins or they were written by Frenchmen who had written as late as the 50's. These Europeans without exception spoke of Vietnames culture at all levels (the very poor as well as the Mandarins) as being of a corrupt and venal nature.

My experience since has proven this to be true at least in light of my own experience. I've found that Vietnamese (especially educated ones) can be unbelievably charming, if not cloyingly sweet. I remember that in the early to mid-70's, before the Saigon government fell, there was a man who lived in Suburban Maryland as I did. He was some sort of functionary at the Vietnamese Embassy in Washington, DC. I was a student and he a minor player in the Vietnamese Embassy and therefore we lived in the same ratty apartment complex. My wife knew his family and for a while the man's wife watched our child. I believe the man's name was Buoi.

Anyway, whenever I would see him, he would tell me in his English which was tinged with a Viet-French accent "I will invite you to every reception." He knew I loved VN food, music, culture. It was not until later that I began to realize that his hospitality at the expense of the RVN Embassy did not come from his heart. He wanted things from me and when I was unable or unwilling to provide them, his friendliness ceased. I suppose that this and other experiences with Vietnamese, whether peasant or high born, have left me with a skeptical attitude. Perhaps part of it is age. I think that as we age and have experienced more in life, we become less naive. Too bad that.

Once again, S&M, I wish you all success. However if things should go Tango Uniform on you while you are still a denizen of this underworld we call the ISG, that you will share with us your awakening or coming of age.

God Bless!

LexLuther

B Bardill
02-29-08, 17:21
I just wanted to add my 2 cents on this dialogue. I am married to a VN girl from Saigon. She and I met chatting on yahoo while she was learning English about 8 years ago. Single, never married, no children. She comes from a middle income type family, mother and father retired and her dad has made good investments in real estate so is not lacking for money.

We finally met in person in 2003 when I went to VN for a visit. We went to Vung Tau for a couple days but in seperate rooms at the hotel. No matter what I tried the most I could get was a kiss. She turns out to be a very, very good catholic/buddhist girl from a very moral family that actually has no problem with me being American. All they have ever been concerned about was that I treated her well and would be a good husband to her. Well to make a long story short, after 2 more years and 5 more visits to VN we were married and have just had our daughter yesterday.

She has been the best wife out of all 4 I have had and loves being married with me. We don't send money to anyone, just the occasional gift for birthday or holidays and of course gifts for everyone when we visit. We do help out her sister who has a son and her ex-husband just died last year. He never supported her anyway being Viet in VN and hadn't seen his son since he was 2. She never has asked for help, but we love them both and want to make sure he has a good education. They live at home with mom and dad and she has her own clothing store so they really don't need much.

We have a lot of friends that we visit when we are in Saigon and party like crazy all week long, so it gets a little expensive footing the bill, but everyone else works like dogs for the little they get so I don't mind.

I just wanted to put out that not everyone in VN is looking for $$ or a way out. She wanted me to live there so she wasn't away from her family, but I still have commitments here for another year or so and will retire there eventually. There are some gems to be found and of course we get rude comments in public sometimes or the look from people, but in her neighborhood everyone knows me so it's only when we go our that it happens. I'm the only american that visits the area usually and they always remember me.

Just a comment because I don't believe that everyone is looking to get something. I also come to this forum to get information about hotels and places to visit. I really am not looking to get laid as I get that enough at home now.

Fw190
03-01-08, 09:40
Thanks for your post. It's good to read something like that for a change. The fact that some (many) Vietnamese do what they have to in order to alleviate their poverty doesn't mean that many (most) Vietnamese aren't honest, principled, and beautiful people. I've been coming to VN since 1994, so something about the country and the people has grabbed me. Best wishes to you and your bride!


I just wanted to add my 2 cents on this dialogue. I am married to a VN girl from Saigon. She and I met chatting on yahoo while she was learning English about 8 years ago. Single, never married, no children. She comes from a middle income type family, mother and father retired and her dad has made good investments in real estate so is not lacking for money.

We finally met in person in 2003 when I went to VN for a visit. We went to Vung Tau for a couple days but in seperate rooms at the hotel. No matter what I tried the most I could get was a kiss. She turns out to be a very, very good catholic/buddhist girl from a very moral family that actually has no problem with me being American. All they have ever been concerned about was that I treated her well and would be a good husband to her. Well to make a long story short, after 2 more years and 5 more visits to VN we were married and have just had our daughter yesterday.

She has been the best wife out of all 4 I have had and loves being married with me. We don't send money to anyone, just the occasional gift for birthday or holidays and of course gifts for everyone when we visit. We do help out her sister who has a son and her ex-husband just died last year. He never supported her anyway being Viet in VN and hadn't seen his son since he was 2. She never has asked for help, but we love them both and want to make sure he has a good education. They live at home with mom and dad and she has her own clothing store so they really don't need much.

We have a lot of friends that we visit when we are in Saigon and party like crazy all week long, so it gets a little expensive footing the bill, but everyone else works like dogs for the little they get so I don't mind.

I just wanted to put out that not everyone in VN is looking for $$ or a way out. She wanted me to live there so she wasn't away from her family, but I still have commitments here for another year or so and will retire there eventually. There are some gems to be found and of course we get rude comments in public sometimes or the look from people, but in her neighborhood everyone knows me so it's only when we go our that it happens. I'm the only american that visits the area usually and they always remember me.

Just a comment because I don't believe that everyone is looking to get something. I also come to this forum to get information about hotels and places to visit. I really am not looking to get laid as I get that enough at home now.

McJohn
03-01-08, 11:57
Thanks for your nice story, Bardill. I also tend to believe if one gets away from the scam artists catering to tourists theres loads of sincere people in Vietnam.


Just a comment because I don't believe that everyone is looking to get something. I also come to this forum to get information about hotels and places to visit. I really am not looking to get laid as I get that enough at home now.This comment is a bit ridiculous though. There are 100s of webpages and forums where you could find better info on hotels and places to visit than ISG if you are not interested in mongering.

LexLuther
03-01-08, 18:08
That's a nice report and I'm glad for you. But there are a number of problems with it beyond what McJohn points out. One is that you mention that her family is "middle income." In Vietnam, as near as I can figure (and I think that most economists, social scientists, etc. will support this assertion) there really is no middle class. Perhaps (hopefully) they will get there someday but they are not there yet. Like a number of other countries in the region (Laos, Cambodia) VN only has desperately poor people and people who (by comparison) are quite well off and able to live something approaching a comfortable lifestyle. But those fortunate enough to do so are only too well aware that what separates them from the masses who live in poverty is a very thin and tenuous line indeed. People who in the U.S. would be middle class people such as low level government employees, teachers, etc., use every means at their disposal to extort, cheat, or steal money from those they should be serving in order to feather their nests. This is why it is impossible to accomplish anything when dealing with the government without the application of some sort of cumshaw.

In his third paragraph Bardill states that he does not send money to anyone and then goes on to contradict himself in this and in the next paragraph. I maintain that if he is not being financially used now, he eventually will be. That's the Vietnamese culture, pure and simple. It's just that the educated and/or successful ones are suave and sophisticated enough to do it without your being aware that you are being fleeced. Or perhaps it's just that Bardill is loathe to see things as they are. Like everyone else, we like to think that a woman stays with us out of love. But women are (by nature) superficial, greedy, and vane creatures. If this were not true, there would be no prostitutes and this board would not exist.

My apologies to Bardill and anyone else who may view my point of view as unnecessarily cynical. But with age comes wisdom. I've been where you are now and I learned the errors of my ways the hard way.

LexLuther

Fw190
03-02-08, 01:39
Ah, LexLuther, you have the experience, and you might well be right. But maybe it's the age-old question of whether the glass is half-full or half-empty; people will see it one way or the other. I'm not looking for a wife (have one already) in VN, but come regularly for business and tourism. I've heard lots of visitors say they they've fallen in love with the country and the people, more so than China, Korea, Japan, or elsewhere. What is it about the VN ladies, for example, that so attracts us, even though there is a huge "fleece factor", as you point out? Any theories based on your experiences?

[QUOTE=LexLuther]

My apologies to Bardill and anyone else who may view my point of view as unnecessarily cynical.

LexLuther
03-02-08, 13:13
FW,

No doubt about it! Vietnamese woman are among the most beautiful in the world. I've heard and read theories on the genetic or racial origins of the Vietnamese as a people. Some say they have some polynesian in their make-up. There is most likely some Chinese in their as well. But as you all know, they are generally fine featured. The ao giai certainly adds an alluring aspect as does the often long black hair. The way they carry themselves is also attractive. But in general, who can say what it is that makes them so beautiful?

And the food! I believe it's one of the best cuisines in the world. I'm always amazed when I talk to Americans who have not tried or who have tried and don't like Vietnamese Food. There are some aspects of Chinese cuisine which are unique and enticing. Thai food is OK once in a while. Cambodian food is horrible in my opinion. But Vietnamese food is such a melange of flavors and textures. The spices such as star anise and cinnamon (Vietnam has some of the best cinnamon in the world). The different herbs which they use. Dishes such as Vietnamese curry and lagoo/ragu. Cha gio. Tet bo nyung nyum. Duck blood pudding with shredded duck meat, herbs, and peanuts spread all over. It's all unique and delicious.

I fell in love with the country and culture myself. And although I am now realistic enough to point out the negative factors involved in the culture does not mean I don't still love Vietnam, its people, and its culture. I do!

But we must all remember what Rudyard Kipling said about West and East. Others have written about the problem as well. But basically the westerner, will always be regarded by the eastern mind, the eastern culture, as an outsider. Maybe it has to do with the fact that eastern cultures are more homogeneous than western ones. Almost all cultures are more so than American culture. Of course the problem of acceptance is much worse in Japan than anywhere else but it is still something of an issue in all Asian countries.

We Americans typically don't immediately think in terms of a person's heritage when we meet them. Not so in a place like Vietnam. A westerner is going to stick out like a sore thumb. The Vietnamese even think differently about a Vietnamese who has lived in America. They have a special term for them (Viet Khieu) and regard them differently.

So in summary, I believe it's one of the most interesting and attractive places and peoples in the world. But when I deal with Vietnamese people, in the back of my mind is a small but insistent voice telling me to watch out, to be careful, and to protect myself at all times. Because I know that the Vietnamese with whom I am dealing is quietly scheming to see what use he can make of this naive foreigner.

LexLuther

Kualalumpur2007
03-02-08, 17:44
FW,

But when I deal with Vietnamese people, in the back of my mind is a small but insistent voice telling me to watch out, to be careful, and to protect myself at all times. Because I know that the Vietnamese with whom I am dealing is quietly scheming to see what use he can make of this naive foreigner.

LexLutherRight on spot!

Two story:

I married 11 years ago a Vietnamese woman, daughter of very high rank people, extremely wealther. She accepted to go to Singapore as it was my work place. We had 2 childrens, and an "happy family", visit lots of her friends in Hanoi, have good time.

4 years ago I could find out a work opportunity in Hanoi. She was awaiting that for long. Then I realize that the wonderful wife with 2 childrens was just waiting to trap me in Vietnam and work for her family, make money and pass to her. From a great wife overseas, she became a real ***** looking to chase my money.

After a while I realized that I am quite wealthy, have real estate, so she choosed me as her husband just because it would bring income to her childrens, contacts to her family, who is part official part business, and sooner or later I would work in Hanoi and earn money that she could catch.

I will pass on the hysteria crisis when I did not pass my entire salary except 200$ she allowed me to have in my pocket (out of 6000$). The money was "saving money for the family", in fact all her family, not mine. Never available to me, and after a few months I had spent clothes, could not pay new shoes, with 2 apartment in Singapore and 6000$ salary. I quickly divorced after, but I loose a lot of money to recover my freedom. I tried to hang up because of the childrens, but her family cared of their education, and I am the foreigner for them. They even trained my own childrens not to learn english and call me "chu", not father, to make distance.

Everything was "fake", and it was so much of a disappointment for me to realize that a complete family can prostitute their daughter to get the most out of a poor guy. Many Vietnamese never have enough money. They earn 10.000$ a month, they will do anything to get the next 10$.

Another story. In nearly all the hotels registration is mandatory with the passport. Always use condoms. I happen to have a work colleague that went out several times with a waitress from a bar in Hanoi. She told him not to worry, she used the pill.

About a year and an half letter, that stupid french, back to his country, got a court order for DNA test. She was pregnant, and located him through the hotel staff and his passport. She already planned to do that the day they decided not to use condoms. He contacted me, but nothing could be done to settle the matter against some money. She wanted 200.000$ or a court order.

So far, it will be 3 months that he pays 1800 euro to this *****.

Foreigners are popular, because having a child with an identified foreigner bring freedom to go out of the country, and money as a rent to "care of the children".

The rent to care of a children is calculated in many countries on the income of the man, so you have to share your salary forever, and it makes a large income to the girl and her family in Vietnam. Another reason to always use condoms.

Columpuss
03-02-08, 18:04
what you all have said so far about vn women is right. the same goes for us women, african women, chinese women and so on........ all comes down to is money and we are sooooo stupid for it. women need money to raise children, we need it to satisfy our [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134). writing about women cheating you out of your money is like complaining about the sun rising every morning.
let's write about how beautiful their breasts are. we dump ass will never be smarter than our own [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) to prevent ourselves from being cheated. the biggest scam ever took place on this earth done by women and it is called marriage. we all morons fell for it at one time or another.
it's an ancient cliche to blame on the culture. stop it!!! admit how stupid we all are. the smarter ones are those never needed women more than two hours at a time and they never take them shopping.

LexLuther
03-03-08, 02:58
I don't know about African women. But I know that Vietnamese women are much smarter than American women. American women are stupid. But when they feel that they have been wronged they become vicious and devious. They lose their sense of proportion. I say this because when my ex-wife and I divorced she was fairly reasonable when compared to an American woman. We were pretty much able to split things up 50/50.

I think Asian women in general and VN women in particular are much more beautiful than American women. And I think they are cleaner.

LexLuther

Jacky33
03-03-08, 18:15
Hi guys,

Thanks for all your info regarding Vietnamese wives or Gfs. I am a Vietnamese American and might marry a VN girl. Any suggestions or tips on to what I should look out for. I dont want to be a sucker or be taken advantage of.

Thanks in advance

Poppasan
03-17-08, 18:30
Whatever happen to using a condom so you won't get STDs?

I have married a VN woman and I can give my opinion.

DON'T DO IT!!!

Trust me on that one. Just don't get married. Why give up mongering? Going and doing where ever, whatever you want to do. Why stick a ball and chain to yourself. If you want kids, I'm sure you can have a kid with that woman or any woman you like.

DON'T DO IT!!!

I hope you guys understood my message.