View Full Version : Hanoi

Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

05-18-02, 06:39
Select "Add New Message" to post a message.

07-02-02, 23:52
Does anyone have any information on brothels in the Westlake area of Hanoi?

08-01-02, 04:28
Where do you go in Hanoi to find a pharmacy and can I get Viagra there? Is it available in Hanoi? Please, any tips would sure be appreciated.

09-14-02, 21:08
Does anybody have info about the action in Bay Chai (the so called Halong Bay City), Cat Ba and Haiphong ?
I will be travelling from China to this area next month. Any hotel to recommand ?

09-15-02, 01:24
Erik: I haven't been yet but people who have say Halong City is PACKED with taxi girls, and there are some even in Cat Ba (on the island).

09-15-02, 21:57
Thanks. I will go next month (coming from China via Mongcai), and shall let you know what I have found there.

By the way, did you know that just accros the chinese border you can find young Viet girls for the same range of price and services as in Cambodia ?

09-20-02, 19:22
According to this,

Erik, I'm no techie but go to www.************.com then look for "Vietnam fun". I can try and find the link. But by FAR the best source is www.penhball.com, member area. This board has many posts on CURRENT options in VN as well as in Cambodia.

What do you mean no problem? I 've tried so many times and never found any Vietnam Fun forum except some forums that talks about Vietnam war. Please be more specific, such as, where, what to type in, or where about on the page that will lead you to it.

09-24-02, 17:32
Vietnam Fun link is here: http://forums.************.com/vietnamfun/messages?msg=265.2

This is now your best bet as pressure from the Femanazis has resulted in the closure (yesterday) of Pehnball.com. Another one (website) bites the dust.

09-24-02, 22:05
You could just simply tell us to type it in as:
There is no place on th page that has this shortcut. Just type this in and go.

09-25-02, 00:08
Seems I took the correct decision not to register on the paying site Penhball, as it has closed down now. I would have paid for nothing ! And nobody to contact for refund or complain.
I definitely do not trust e-business. We'll see in 5 or 10 years...

09-25-02, 22:59
Lucky (the owner) has emailed all who paid explaining how to get a full refund through paypal. This was NOT a ripoff site at all and people are looking at methods of restoring it on a server immune from NGO pressure.

11-01-02, 00:37
Back from Hanoi.
Relax cafe : negociated a sexy girl 30 USD for ST.
Apocalypse now : 40 USD
Century Disco : 40 USD

11-03-02, 17:03

I will, during my holiday in Thailand, make a 10 day visit to Vietnam. I have been invited by my neighbour and his vietnamese wife, who are there to visit her family. So I guess I will spend all my time with their family, relatives and people who they know. No bars and no bargirls.

So here comes the tricky part. I have never been to Vietnam and I do not know how people (girls) think there. If I find someone attractive, how do I get an ordinary, vietnamese girl to go to bed with me? Is it possible in 10 days? I guess it is either a "normal", average, girl or nothing. Any advise?


11-04-02, 05:38
Easy, just tell your neighbor's vietnamese wife that you want to fuck a vietnamese chick. I am sure she will find one for you. Remember, unlike Thailand, prostitution in Vietnam is illegal.

Originally posted by swedtraveller

I will, during my holiday in Thailand, make a 10 day visit to Vietnam. I have been invited by my neighbour and his vietnamese wife, who are there to visit her family. So I guess I will spend all my time with their family, relatives and people who they know. No bars and no bargirls.

So here comes the tricky part. I have never been to Vietnam and I do not know how people (girls) think there. If I find someone attractive, how do I get an ordinary, vietnamese girl to go to bed with me? Is it possible in 10 days? I guess it is either a "normal", average, girl or nothing. Any advise?


11-05-02, 00:33
Just a little correction, prostitution is ALSO prohibited in Thailand !

12-14-02, 08:39
Just back from Hanoi. This is my first time going to there.
We live in hotel in fornt of the USA chancellery. There have a night club in base floor. It's ok. One night is $80. We have escort for 2 day $150. The feeling is good.
The traffic in Hanoi was too bad.

03-04-03, 09:26
I am currently in Hanoi and would like to report the closure of Apocolypse Now. The police closed it last week which means it could reopen any day. Relax Bar has 6-10 available girls. Will be checking out New Century and possibly the Boss Club at Fortuna Hotel. Internet connections really suck here but I would appreciate any Hanoi info or Da Nang or Hoi An info for an upcoming trip. Thanks to all who posted before me.

03-05-03, 08:38
You might want to check out Polite Bar in the Old Quarter which is similar to AN. I hope it's not also closed. Lots of local expats hang out at R&R Tavern where you might find out what's happening in the capital or elsewhere in VN. Have fun and wish I was there!

03-05-03, 12:12
Thanks for the info. I am on my way to Danang/Hoi An now. AN has reopened but I never made it there. Fortuna Hotel (Boss Club) is awesome but pricey. R+R is a nice place to get a drink, burger, or just hang out during the day.

03-13-03, 15:45
Is anyone familliar with the Foreigners bars like Monaco, Polite Pub or Body guard (? not sure about the name) ? Can you find girls there, appart from foreign males drinking beer ? Relax bar seems to be less visited by working girls these days.

03-18-03, 15:10

Many girls in the VIP Club of Fortuna Hotel, but not easy to make your choice in the dark. At first, they all look gorgeous, but if you stay long time enough to look carefully at them, you will see that they are actually very average girls, well dressed, on high heels, with super wonderbra to enhanced their average breast. Once naked in your room, it is another story. They charge you 102 USD for ST, and let me tell you that the service I had was crap. The so called 22 years old girl (actually more 32, with one child at least) promitted to "eat me everywhere'. Actually, she hardly performed a BJ, the kind of BJ shey put their hands to hide that they fake sucking, insisting to have the condom ready on the bed... bad ambiance... She then spoke about money every 2 minutes, insisting to be paid upfront, which is against my principle, and I am glad I sticked to it. I had enough and sent her out. As you can imagine, that was not without screaming and big noise in the hotel, and intervention of the reception. Total damage for me : 52 USD.

So much for the posts which advertise "upmarket" places to get a good service. I return to my little barbershops. There, you can find real treasures, and if you have bad luck, you have just lost 5 or 10 USD.

03-18-03, 22:40
Erik, sorry to hear about your bad experience at Fortuna. It is definitely overpriced for Vietnam and you do need to pay attention when making your choice. My experience was the complete opposite of yours. I met a beautiful lady that looked terrific back in the room and she never mentioned money. For me it was worth the extra money I paid and I would return to the club if I had the opportunity. I even enjoyed the show the girls put on the stage at the club. As the saying goes ymmv (your're mileage may vary).

04-20-03, 19:37
Now in Hanoi for the first time, and there's plenty available here. Apocalypse Now is back open in its old location, but only stays open until midnight because of some new local ordinance. Girls usually come in between 10 and10:30. Price is highly negotiable, and sometimes there's no exchange of money at all except for cab fare.

I have not checked out the fortuna, but from what I've seen, there's no need to get into expensive territory here, and a decent dinner, some wine or beer, and a little conversation works well.

06-22-03, 09:58
Still in Hanoi and have discovered a couple of new places. One is called Monaco, which is known to every taxi driver. It's the only place in Hanoi that stays open all night and it's where all the girls come after Apocalypse Now and the other places close. It's small and after midnight, it's extremely crowded, but you can find a lot of expatriate men (and some expat women) and loads of Vietnamese working girls.
The other late hours place is New Century, which is open until about 3 AM. It draws a mixed crod of expats, hookers, and rich young Vietnamese kids. It's large, loud, and it's jammed every night.

06-22-03, 17:31
Good stuff...how much do these chicks want in Monaco or New Century g-e-n-e-r-a-l-l-y speaking? I gather some are just there with friends having fun or??? Expensive?
Happy trails!

06-22-03, 23:26
If you want them on that evening, they will start at 50 USD for ST, but you can have them for 40 or 30. If you take their phone number and call them the next afternoon, you will have them in your minihotel room for 25 or even 20 !

07-01-03, 09:59
I've had several chicks stay for nothing more than cab fare, others who ask for $100 and are happy to get $30, and never paid more than $40. On the other hand, I never negotiate beforehand, and I think they're pretty much happy with whatever they can get.
Went to the Fortuna hotel north of the lake a couple of nights ago. It has a "hostess" bar and there are probably about 75-100 girls, some of them really good looking. They will sit with you for about $5 per hour and drink fruit juice at $4 a pop. On the other hand, you can either go there at midnight when they get off, and deal directly or walk in, find one you like, give her your phone number and tell her to call you. It works and the price is highly negotiable. There are three or four other hotels, including the Daewoo, which have hostess bars, some of them with more women, but I haven't been there.
From everything I've seen the best place remains New Century. There are lots of women, it's open until late and no one hassles you about anything.

07-01-03, 10:05
Originally posted by Erik
Is anyone familliar with the Foreigners bars like Monaco, Polite Pub or Body guard (? not sure about the name) ? Can you find girls there, appart from foreign males drinking beer ? Relax bar seems to be less visited by working girls these days.
Erik: Everyone i've seen at Monaco has been recycled from Apocalypse and typically appears after that closes at about midnight. I hadn't read your comment on Fortuna before my last post, but thanks for the warning, I assume all of the so called "hostess" bars are like that. There's a new one, across from the Hilton which I hear has stunning women but I've not been there yet and it's rumored to be pretty expensive. I did have some luck last Friday night at the Press Club. I didn't expect to get lucky there but it was a nice evening.

08-02-03, 10:39
Dear All,

Been looking at the information about Hanoi. Does appear to be a bit sparse for action ?

Will be visiting Hanoi later in the month ? Any leads on a good hotels that are girl friendly or one where it is not too difficult to pick up a decent chick fr the hotel bar or nearby disco to bring to the hotel room.

Will appreciate any help fr the seniors. What is the going rate for a good quality chick for 2 hours ? Thanx for help.

08-03-03, 16:57
Here I am with the latest from Hanoi. I'm typing in hurry as the Internet cafe closes at 11pm. So I've been at Apocalypse Now alone after all my friends called the night way earlier. The place is raw but effective. After a beer and 30 seconds at the counter I have been hooked by a beauty youngie and passively went from there. Negotiated $50 for the night with another girl's help as she spoke zero english, was also proposed a threesome. She collected her four comic books and we walked back to my hotel that is is very nearby (Grand). Gave 50,000 tip at the boy, no questions asked. She had that beauty pageant face with firm and sizeable firm breast but otherwise she was the common real skinny type. Better looks than skills altough she tried her best, also she blamed an headache in the morning. But, it was good and I left for a classic Hua Long Bay excursion the following morning. Gotta run now to see If some of my friends want to join me to check out Fortune or something, the night is waiting.

08-04-03, 00:11
I don't agree that Hanoi is lacking in decent places. Apocalypse now is, admittedly a little rough, but if you go between 11 and midnight the place is packed 7 days a week. The going price for the night is $30-40 and I never negotiate until the next morning. The nicer you are to the lady, the cheaper the price, and I've had several who only wanted cab fare. This is especially possible if you let the girl know that you like her and would like to see her again. The same is true for New Century where you should go if you strike out at Apocalypse becau, se it's open until about 3 AM.

Also, it's pretty easy to meet women anywhere in the city just by talking to them and making arrangements to take them to dinner or a drink so someplace they wouldn't normally get to go such as the Press Club, Au Lac or any one of a dozen others. Hanoi may not be a brash as HCM, but it has it's own charms.

I would stay away from the Fortuna, the Daewoo and the other hotels with "hostess" bars. There are plenty of women there, and they are all available, but its expensive, you have to wait until the "hostesses" are off duty, and you have to pay for their company while they're on duty. I have an apartment here, so I don't know about the accessibility of hotels with girls in tow, but I would recommend furnished apartments to anyone staying here more than a week. They're clean, well-equipped and cost no more than a moderately-priced hotel.

Happy Chap, you may have to work slightly harder here than you would in Saigon, but it's worth it as it's not as commercial and the girls are, by and large, not as hard-edged. As to a hotel, try the Elegant II. It's in the center of everything, about a 5 minute walk from Apocalypse now and a 10 minute ride from New Century. The rooms are clean, you can negotiate a rate o about $25 per night, and you won't get any hassle.

08-04-03, 11:17

Thanx for the tip. Will take your advice. It does seem that the more expensive hotels tend to escalate everything else. Wish I had a bit more time to spend and stay in a service apartment.

Will try to locate Elegant II in the internet.

I am in the same mind as you. Saigon is easier but probably pretty spoilt over the years. I was at Metrople Hotel then, there was good action but I was tied up with other things, so I had to give it a missed. Just the massage & hankypanky. Hanoi is a bit more elegant and less damaged by commercialism. Will have to see.

If you have any good contacts for chicks, do let me know - breeze1701@hotmail.com. Will report on what I manage in Hanoi when I get there.

08-04-03, 13:58
Hanoi part II, or about a place to avoid.

We went for a massage to some Hotel that I can't really rememeber, my masseuse was not transmitting any sexy vibe and did not delivered a very good massage neither, so I passed on the HJ she offered. It is a legit place or so I'm told. vnd 80,000 + 50,000 tip. After resting some more, my friend said he wasn't interested in Apocalypse so we head to Fortune at about 11.30. The place is fakeness at the highest level. The only situation in which I would patronize it again would be if I had to entertrain customers, being baked-up by a fat expense account. Singers are lipsynced, the furniture is cheesy and the overall atmosphere is the one of an upscale bordello. Admitted, some of the girls are very pretty and well dressed, but soft drinks at usd 6.50 sounds excessive even for wester countries.
As soon you sit the mamasan asks if you want company, of course you must buy drinks for your girl too. The take-out fee is usd 28 for all night. We picked a stunning beauty for my friend (that speaks viet) and another for me. After 30 seconds of talking my friend tells me that she doesn't want to go with me and I tought he was joking. But no, she had said some bullshit about being a virgin, later I've learned that she was worried about the size of my dick, god only knows why, me being a regular white guy. Anyway, I sent her away and we were informed about the above said house rules. I've immediately tried to negotiate a deal with the mamasan threatening the terrible effects of a bad report on this board that is read daily by bazillions of horny punters. As expected, that had zero effect and the only smartness we could come out with was to pay one barfine only and have the girl to call another friend to meet outside of the hotel. She promised that friend to be beautiful (how original) and made some vaugue gesture that hinted to sizeable breasts. Well so we sit in a taxi waiting for her, once arrived she sits right behind me and holds my hand until we get to the hotel. By the little I was able to see she was cute enough even if equipped with one of these moonlike round faces. At the hotel, we sit in my room, I approach my 'beauty' and began to realize what a dog she really was. At some point she lifts one of her pants legs showing a bulky ankle and an unshaved leg. Add this to the fact she was sexy like a piece of forniture, it was enough to decide to cut my losses and send her away with vnd 100,000. As she didn't even tried to lure me into whatever her business is supposed to be, and insisted on usd50 all the time, I would have given her even less if was not for my friend's 'generosity'. After that, in a desperate move I head for apocalypse, just to find it airtight closed at about 1 am. To add to situation, the cab driver was so slow that really got on my nerves. Once I got back at the hotel door I see the girl still there with a guy, for a moment I was a little worried, as I have been in a similar situation that ended in a street fight. But nothing happened and I went to sleep, happy that at least I didn't had to come into intimacy with such an unpleasant girl. The following day I learn from my friend that his girl (not surprisingly) was very unexperienced also and left him basically unsatisfied, for the records she didn't even wanted to do a doggie style. Well, so much for the string of bad luck or (genuine mistakes) that happened to us.
Today I'm back in HCM, have already meet my local, she rushed to my hotel with pizza, school books and an huge sexual appetite. I'm afraid that if things keep going this way I'll have no further reports from Vietnam, but you shall (should ?) read from me again when in Thailand.

Over and out (or whatever they say)

08-06-03, 02:25
Happy Chap:
If you want a service apartment for a long or short stay, try the Hanoi Towers. The apartments are well-furnished but pricey and start at about $65 per night. However, they'll take guests for long and short term stays. I have a service apartment in a smaller building near the Apocalypse, but it's full of mostly longer-term guests. There are other service apartments out by the lake, but these are pretty far from the center of town. Forgot to mention in my email that the Relax Bar, which is a 1 minute walk from the Hanoi Towers is also a big expat hang out, as is the Spotted Cow which is not far away. Both places feature women, but the Relax is a little difficult for a short term encounter. However, you will meet a lot of expat guys who know every place there is to know in the city. I went to the New Century last Saturday around midnight and it was jammed with women. Don't think you'll have any problems. In fact last night I was stopped for the first time by a chick on a motorbike. I didn't pursue it but she was good looking.

08-09-03, 05:10
Went to the Press Club last night to hear some live music, and heard about a bar here called "Hale's" (pronounced Holly's) which is supposedly quite good, with girls dancing on the bar, waitresses dancing in the aisles and everyone available. Will try to check it out in the next couple of days. It's out by the lake, so it's a little far from the center of town. If any of you have heard of or experienced this place, please let me know if it's worthwhile.

Also went back to New Century last night. It was absolutely packed at about 11:30 and by 12:30 it was getting a little tough to move. Have noticed that there seem to be more new faces there than at Apocalypse and for sure the girls there are more aggressive.

For those who haven't tried the place, I would recommend spending some time in the upstairs bar. It's quieter, lighter (you can see the girls better) and sooner or later everyone downstairs seems to circulate for a while upstairs as well.

08-27-03, 02:55
Hi Everybody,
Was in Hanoi this week end and stayed at the Daewoo Hanoi Hotel.
What a nice hotel. And full of Koreans. Great food and decent pricves to my standards.
Now, the best is the Health Club.
Went there and ask for a massage. They ask me if I wanted a one hour massage and I said yes.
Went to the locker room, get undressed, went for a shower and a boy brought me a towel a short pan and a robe. Dispose of the short and put on the robe and off I went to meet my masseuse. There come a very pretty young lady probably in her 20 to 25 at max. Very cute, long hair, very nice legs, nice face, smiling. A number 8 in all meaning. I enter the room. Sher followed. She prepared the table and asked me to get undressed. I obliged and went all naked. She seems a bit shy to see all what nature, God and my mother provided me but smile at me, looked at it again that looked at my in the eyes and smiled very gently.
She deemed the light and then started to provide me with a very decent oil massage for about 1 hour. She massaged thouroughly my legs, often going up with her hands up to my balls and sometimes my shaft. I went hard and she could not notice it. I kept quiet anyway. After one our she was ending her massage by massaging my tummy. Then, very slowly, she removed the towel that she had placed on my hard bonnie and looked at it and stared at me, smiling gently again. She started to massage my balls very slowly like she was afraid to break them. Then went very slowly up to my dick and rubbed it again very slowly. Doing so she was alterning stared right into my eyer wit a very nice smile and look onto what she was doing. She then took some oil and massaged both my balls and my shaft a bit more quickly but still very gently. Then she put her left hand finger on my protate point, discovered my dick completely and started to masturbate me the way I really like. When she felt I was going to come, she went done on my face and gave my a kiss. Not a Fench one though. During the whole time she allowed me to roam over her very nice but small body. Didn;t not allow me to take her breast out though. I went up and high and she smiled at the mess I did. She continued to massaged my scortch gently for quite a long time after I came. Then she cleaned everything and washed her hands and then went to massage my shoulder to finish. She then asked me to stand up and told me it was over and that she hoped I really enjoyed it and would be very pleased massage me again if I would come back. Said her number was 9. She then took me back to the locker room and gently wave good by.
She did not eben ask for money !!!! I had just pay at the entrance the equivalent to US$20 !!!!
To be sure of the deal, I came back the next day. I requested her this time but she was out for lunch so I had to wait till 3:00 p.m. Which I did going to the sauna. By 2:45 she came back and went to see who could have requested her (does not seem so frequent). When she saw me waiting, she look quite happy and came and took me by the hand to drive me to the room. Going through the corridor, I noticed that some rooms have just a mat on the floor. A mat that can accomodate 2 persons. I ask what this was for. She said that it was for a very special massage. And that maybe next time.... I insisted to try but she refused. So we went to the same room as the day before. And guess what ? She provided the exact same service. It even seemed to be better for me. This time she really let me understood during the whjole mregular massage that I was going to be pleased, as sher intentionaly went to place her hands strategically on my balls and dicks several times in a row. She even gave me the shavering by gently scratching my legs up to my neck passing by my ass with her nice nails. She place gently her oily hands and fingers several time in my ass valey. When I turned back I was with a real bone between the legs that could hardly by hidden with the towel. She smiled at it but continued the massage. And went for the same happy ending except that this time she allowed me to French kiss her several time. But not to take her breast out. When I asked if she could give me a blow job she gently declined. When I said why she answereed : not this time. She had me come really good and then cleanerd everything.
And the same thing as the previous day as she took me back to the loocker room and hugged my goodbye. No money requested. I was stoned.
So you guess what. I came bsack the following day.
This time again, no way to discover the couch room as it was still for very special massage. But all the rest was exactly the same. I was a bit ashamed of myself to take advantage of such a good service almost for free that I gave her a very nice tip (50US$) saying that it was for her gift purchase for Moon cake festival. She looked so happyand says that it was very kind of me but that it was not necessary. She nevertheless kept the money and gave me a very nice hug and deep kiss. And drove me back to the locker room. On the way back I isisted to know what was the very special massage and its mysterous room. Then she answered that I should ask for it next time and went away.
When exiting the health club I tried to know what this could be./ Nothing special was mentioned on the board. One of the club boy told me that they could provide any type of massage upon request and that shiatsu, as well as viet massage, swedish massahe and... thai massage were available. The couch is for Thai massage.
Unfortunately,. I had to leave Hanoi by the evening so I could nmot come bavk the following day to check this one.
If any of you go and try, please post so that I do not die a perfect idiot...
Cheers to all


08-27-03, 03:12
Second post from Hanoi.
I had the opportunity to visit New Century club on Saturday night.
That was packed with a lot of very interesting girls, a large part being pros or semi pros. I had a cutie who just went straight on me about 3mn after my arrival and grabbed me by the waist, gave me a hug and said she would stay with me. She drove me to the bar, let me ask for a drink for me (she had her own in hands) and simply just cuddled on me for about 10mn. A fellow monger who was next to me at the bar and was receiving the same treatment from a girl he apparently alreadyt knew explained me that their way of hunting was quite peculiar and that once that either had got you in a bed once or simply just decided that she will, they were turning quite territorial and preventing you from going to other girls and more surely other girls to come to you. I moved on and let the cutioe alone. She did not look very happy but I had to make my own discoveries. I went down to the first floor and discover a lot of girls, some who did not look at all as pros (but whjo could eventually have been).
Every single one trying to make eye contact with the poor guy alone in the crowd. One very nice looking (a definite 8) but also surely a real pro and very sexy dressed went to me and said that she could go to my hotel right now and have sex with me. A bit straight forward but when you are in a hurry I guess some appreciate these type of approach. I told her I could not now as I was waiting for some friends (which was really the case). She said that she could wait gor about one hour and would not be too far from me in cade I decide to go. And she returned to her group of friends (all very nice girls) and continue to look at me every other minutes. Then my friends called and told me they were having a great time in a nice restaurant and would take more time and will head immediatly after to a KTV. So I went and meet with them. Too bad I had to leave.
But I am sure next time I shall visit again as I now know that I can find nice and decent sandwiches to bring back home.
Do not know at all about prices that could be asked for.
Any body has any clue to provide ?
How much for ST ?
How much for whole night ?
What do they provided and allow to do ?
3some possible ?


08-28-03, 03:12
Nice reporting! Jeesh, she almost got me hard just reading about it!LOL Any other spots around? Never been to the "nam" but want to.
Happy Trails!

08-31-03, 13:24
Guys, am visiting Hanoi later in mid-Sept for about a week. Question 1, is what's a guest friendly hotel ? I'm currently booked at the Sofitel-Metropole, and if memory serves me correctly from my last visit a year ago, the place did not seem very guest friendly. I was there only for a couple of days and had no chance to indulge. Hope to correct that this time !! Any tips on the hotels would be greatly appreciated.

09-04-03, 09:06
Fast Freddie:
Most of the girls at the New Century will ask you for about $40 but you can bargain this down ever more as the night gets later. This is for the whole night, and most don't want to stay for only a short time. I've had several girls there not ask for anything in the morning.

10-03-03, 06:44
I would appreciate information regarding the visa situation in Vietnam. I will be in Haikou (Hainan island), China which is so damn close that I have to make the effort, even if it would be a very short visit. Has anyone here gone from Haikou to Hanoi?

Can I get an entry visa when I arrive in Vietnam (as is possible in Cambodia)? I assume there are flights from Hanoi to Guangzhou (my next stop).

Since the PRC and Vietnam are not on great terms these days, any hassles re-entering China from Vietnam?

I would stay maybe two nights before heading back to China. What is a girl friendly hotel near New Century? I am not looking for a 5 star. Just girl friendly, well located for sanuk with safe deposit boxes for valuables. That's all.

The scene sounds great. Thanks in advance.

10-03-03, 23:06
No problem at all to go back and forth between the two contries. Should be a Vietnamese consulate in Canton. Ask for a reentry visa. By the way, Haikou is much more sexy that Hanoi ! The girls are les pretty that the Viets, but choice larger. And girl friendly hotels are far less a problem in Haikou. For me, if I were in Haikou, it would not make sense to go just for 2 days for sex to Hanoi.

10-05-03, 06:28
Thanks, Erik. Your advice is much appreciated, since I know you have visited and reported on so many places in China.

Here's an off topic question, have you ever had any fun in WenZhou (Zhenjiang). If not, I will just have to blaze the trail since I'll be there for two nights.

Thanks again.

10-05-03, 23:31
Sorry, not recently. But I think it should ne an open city, sexwise. Let us know, please.

10-07-03, 22:02
Erik, will do. Most likely on the Ningbo board as this seems closest. Thanks again for your input, I've decided to just stay in Haikou with my chums as all reports from China say it is business as usually. Just goes to show that you can't slow down a well-oiled machine.

10-10-03, 23:08
All I read about Saigon tells me that crackdown is going on. Not a good period to go, apparently. Like Bangkok this month. Do you know if it is the same atmosphere in Hanoi at the moment ? At what time has Apocalypse Now been closing recently ? This is alusually a good barometer of the tension.

10-13-03, 08:10
Apocalypse has been closing at about 12:30 for the past 6 months, but there are other places (New Century and Monaco for example) which are routinely open until past 3 AM with no hassle. I don't think there's any real tension, just an attempt to put on a good face for the SEA Games. Also, just got back from HCMC and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary there either.
I was taken to a relatively new place called Nana which is primarily for Japanese and is styled more or less like a pub on the Ginza in Tokyo. It costs $50 just to get in the door, and then you need to buy a bottle of whiskey or a minimum of $130, after which you are escorted to a private, very comfortable room, surrounded by women, and encouraged to talk about whatever you want. Post-meeting arrangements can be made, it was clear, but I had no desire. I was with a client and the bill for the 3 of us was more than $300 with no food. Unless you're on an expense account or a maochist, it's a good idea to stay away.

10-13-03, 20:55
If I remember well, Monaco is just a bar, not a disco, isnt'il ?

Malter Man
10-14-03, 00:42
Girls at Apocalypse seem a bit expensive to me compared to rest of SE Asia. Had a girl who wanted $30 for a quicky. In the end I sent her off with $20 and much anger. Room cost me $10 short time, cause my hotel didn't accept guests. My advice is to mention money beforehand.

10-14-03, 08:34
You remember correctly. However, it's also the place that a lot of the ladies from other places come after those places close down, so there's a lot of stuff happening there. I've also found lately that a lot of the ladies who go to Apocalypse and New Century hang out at the Relax Bar until 10 or 10:30, so it's not a bad place in the early part of the evening.

10-21-03, 17:51
Just a quick update on Apocalypse. I went there a couple of nights ago for the first time in two weeks and was surprised that when I left at about 12:30, it was still booming and showed no sign of closing. I should add that this was on a Monday night, so it's not as if the place had special permission to stay open late for the week end. Maybe the rules are being relaxed again. I would also note that Relax Bar seems to be staying open later than it did when I first arrived here.

11-09-03, 09:44
Quick impression on Hanoi.
I feel Apocalypse needs serioulsy to renew its talents. It is all the same girls I have seen for years, in their 30 et 40 by now, very chicky and professionnal, with 1 or 2 kids each. Situation a bit better in New Century, but same danger threatens. Seems the nicer chicks head to Ho Chi Minh City preferably. I wonder why, they are highly needed in Hanoi.
Although I have discovered that Viet girls lie even better than Thai ones. At least, when you ask a Thai if she has had kids, she will tell the truth. A Viet girl can perfectly answer "no", and then you discover in your room that she has lied and she has a awful body. So what do you do in the case ?
Your opinions are welcome.

11-09-03, 11:00
Erik, I've never been in Hanoi but my notes tell me about "Relax bar" and "Spotted Cow"...which is supposedly a 1 minute walk from Hanoi Towers? And also a place called "Hales" or pronounced "Holly".......have you checked out these places or others...let me know! Just trying to help you out! ;) Happy poking!

11-11-03, 10:54
No, sorry, I forgot to check out these places.

11-22-03, 02:58
Relax Bar is about 1 minute walk from Hanoi Tower. It's an ex-pat pub with lovely waitresses who, for the most part, do not double as hookers and who require some serious attention before they will sleep with you. The bar also attracts a couple of pros every night who typically go there before going to Apocalypse Now. All in all, it's a good place to drink but not a great place to pick up women.

The Spotted Cow is much the same, largely crammed full of Brits and, like Relax, attracts a few hookers every night. It's fairly small, and it gets pretty noisy.

The walk from the Hanoi Tower to Relax Bar is interesting, as a lot of free lance hookers, on motor bikes and on foot patrol this area. They typically congregate just outside the entrance to Relax Bar.

Just Sentinel
11-23-03, 06:30
Hi guys,

I will be making my first trip to Hanoi this week on company business, having been to Saigon about two years ago.

Just wondering about the Fortuna Hotel, about its standard and if it is a good place to stay during the visit and any spots where I can pick up chicks nearby. Heard there is a karaoke lounge in the hotel, but i'm not really into karaoke. Where else in the area can I go and roughly how much am I expected to fork out?

What is the current situation there, given the police checks that I read in the other posts?

Also heard about these places in Vietnam, not sure if they are in Hanoi, where they are basically pool parlours but you get girls servicing you at the same time. Did not find any in Saigon when I was there.

Really would appreciate any help I can get, and will keep the group posted on any details that I find.

11-29-03, 08:10
My advice would be to stay away from the Fortuna. The service is lousy as is the food and the prices, by Hanoi standards, are outrageous. If you want a good five star stay nearer the center. The Hilton and the Metropole are both good choices. There is a "hostess" bar in the Fortuna, but it's expensive, the bar fines are huge and the girls just ordinary, though you can avoid the bar fines by giving them a phone number and making outside arrangements.

01-05-04, 23:29
Hi guys
i'll be in Ha Noi this coming 10/01/04 VN, are the any board members in HN right now, mayble we can meet up for a beer or a cup of coffee? This is my first time in HN alone, i was borned in SaiGon, but still speaks the language, will stay in HN and Ha Long Bay for about two weeks, any thing that i can do for fun like p4p: bars, disco, hot toc, massage .ect. Thanks

01-18-04, 15:37
Massage place right in front of the Hilton Hanoi Opera that provides HJ. Gave 200K tip, 80K for 1.5 hr massage. And the massage was great. Is there any FS at the MPs in Vietnam?

01-19-04, 21:35
Please stay in Tokyo never to return to VN! You vastly overpaid which continues to ruin the local scene. The going rate for a massage may be 60-80K in Hanoi but 200K for a tip for simple HJ is 3-4 times appropriate tip. I would never tell anyone ruining the scene where to get FS in VN. But in case you ever find it the max tip for FS is 200K and it can easily be gotten at many venues which outside the city centre for as little as 30-60K tip! Sorry for maybe a harsh tone but VN is not Tokyo or even Thailand in its standard of living and therefore outsiders should become aware of the REAL price structure and not be so naive.

01-23-04, 10:23
I lived in Hanoi for four years and there is more to Hanoi then just Apocalypse, Monaco or New Century.

The Hanoi Hotel is a good place to start. The massage there is probably the best in town. Six months ago 16 US$ got you 2 hours. The place is clean. Sauna and steam room, great shower and the linen is fresh. You can relax and have a beer before the massage and watch a bit of TV. Beer is around three US $. You choose the girl at the entrance when the receptionist gives you a locker number. Actually there is a bunch of numbers on a board and the top ones are the available girls. Go there around two or three in the afternoon and most of the girls are free. The place gets busy after six and goes on until past midnight. If you decide to stay in the hotel, you can even order the girls up to your room for thirty dollars an hour plus the fee for the girl. Never done it so I donft know what the rate is.

Not all the girls are great but they all will give you the full massage for twenty US donft pay more. I like to be straightforward and itfs the first thing I negotiate with the girl when I get in the room. Usually you can play with then a bit but they have some tough uniform to get into. Have fun!

Quang Ba district: The best map of Hanoi I found on the net is at the following address: http://www.hau.edu.vn/apsa2003/Hanoi_map.htm. You will need it to get there. Quang Ba is the red light district of Hanoi with a lot of brothels. It is very, very local! Only the adventurous should go there and never with a three-piece suite on! I also would not recommend it past 6 pm. Go there in the afternoon and remove the fear factor. I never had any troubles there because I went there between three and five. Get in any taxi in town but not from the large hotels. Mailing Taxi Company seems to be the best with the best drivers. Just tell them Quang Ba and off you go. It is to the left of the New Sofitel Plaza. From downtown it takes about fifteen minutes. On the way just tell the driver that you want gMadam Boom-Boomh when you get there in front of somm houses there will be guys sitting outside on chairs. Stop the taxi and go to the nearest guy. He will take you in the house. Usually you will be asked if you want a beer and then you will be taken up to a room. It's not five stars but usually decent. Then the girls will be shown to you. Price again six months ago was 350 thousand Dong.

True enough Fortuna, Hanoi Hotel KTV or Daewoo are too expensive but the girls can be good. Be careful with the girls from Apocalypse and New Century, they will steal anything they can, donft leave them alone!

Now if you have a few days to spare, you should get out of town and go to Do Son, a small seaside resort 20k from Haiphong. Web Site info: http://www.calle.com/world/VM/13/Do_Son.html

Go to the Do Son Hotel at the end of the road. Room 100 000 Dong, Short time girl, 80 000 Dong and 200 000 Dong overnight. Food there is cheap but good and the rooms are clean but small. This small hotel caters to all the Vietnamese men that go there for a sexy week end. No TV, No Radio, no phone in the rooms and nothing much to do except eat drink sleep and make love. The girls are not the best but for the price you can not expect models. Send them back if you don't like them. Usually Vietnamese guys go there and just pick one. I like to get there in the early afternoon and take two before dinner, one for dessert and one for overnight. Look at the guy's face when you check out and he prepares the bill for you. He will give you thumbs up and tell you: You very strong.

01-24-04, 01:50
Thanks Michel for your seasoned Hanoi perspective. I agree that Quang Ba out on the shores of West Lake is definitely not for the uninitiated. I always went went there in the afternoon and got out before dark. Not that it's necessarily dangerous but the male touts/pimps/mafioso are big time assholes. I always try to avoid the scum and the less around the better. My pricing experience was this: House (often a brothel karaoke got 60000d for one hour of 'hot' or entertainment room fee) and the girls tip was around 50000d HJ, around 100000 BJ and around 150000 FS. Sometimes the touts have you presented a bill with double or triple the 'hot' fee which had me nearly coming to fisticuffs a few times before compromise. As usual, they lost my future biz and I just found a better place with exclusive female or at least trustworthly male management. Local VNese guys would surely consider the tips I quote high since they get FS for 30000-60000d at various cafe tam on the outskirts of southwest Hanoi - I've gotten that price range too with negotiation. I also agree about the relaxing beach resort of Do Son and Hai Phong area has some very stunning beauties if you put in the effort to find them.

01-27-04, 13:31
thanks asiaphile!

one more area that has women roaming is around the front of the hilton. as you walk out of the hilton make a left on the road and just walk slowly around 8 or 9pm. make a left again at the end of the street.women on motorcycles will stop by and ask you if you are interested. prices are cheap but the girls don't look all that good. never tried it but came close. they tell you that they have a hotel and can take you there on their bike.
in the same area, as you walk out of the hilton make a right this time and then at the intersection a left. stay on the right side of the road. you will arrive at a small square where ladies are sitting on benches or walking around. these are very local and not so clean, i saw one taking a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) in the grass, she just pulled up a dress and let go. not the most inviting thing unless you'r into [CodeWord101] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord101).

Albert Punter
01-29-04, 23:26
Shortly I will stay at the Hilton.

Any bar or disco there, where you can arrange meeting in your room upstairs?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

A question to Michel: from your report I understand that Hanoi Hotel massage is just a massage, or something more may happen?

01-31-04, 10:29

Sorry for the rookie mistake. I definately don't want to ruin the local scene for you guys.

As for the Hilton massage, the woman I had offered a HJ, but she was very unattractive (face maybe 2, body 5) and she asked for $30 USD tip so I declined. I'm sure that she would have come down in price, but the massage itself I think is 18-20 USD for one hour. Very good massage though.

I'll be back in Hanoi in a month time or so, and will make sure that 80K tip for HJ is the max I pay. I just want to clarify that this is about $5 USD?

01-31-04, 12:59

Hanoi Hotel massage and more! for sure! Just tell them straight what you want and you will get it except FS but great BBBJ and HJ for about 200 000 Dong no more then that! As for the Hilton no Disco you need to get out of the Hilton and either to Apocalypse or New Century. Be back to your hotel before Eleven or security will not let you in with the girl!

Good Luck!

02-01-04, 12:46
Lately Hanoi had really pissed me off a bit. The good news first. The Hanoian girls can be stunningly fair-skinned beautiful, generally taller, big bosomed, cultured, educated, less greedly than southern sisters, blah blah, (remember Suzy Wong's which is gone for a couple of years now anyone!). The aforementioned places, AN, NC and M have sadly declined and may as well close down although I doubt it since the owners have the connections or are owned by high level SRV officials. I hate to say it but for all it's faults (bizarre come and go crackdowns, street mafia BS), etc. HCM City is overall wayyyy better IF YOU KNOW THE INSIDE SECRETS OF THE EXOCIC PLAYING FIELD THAT IS THE EXTENDED NORTH/SOUTH DRAGON... Any expat or traveler who wants to discuss in confidence can contact me as I am becoming ever more paranoid about any wide-open internet discussion of nightlife secrets in Vietnam. I have around a dozen years experience all over the country so my perspective is very seasoned and unfortunately a bit jaded as well. Still, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE VIETNAM!

02-09-04, 02:24
Asiaphile, are you still based in VN? I'm headed back to HCMC and can always use your advice. I've been in and out for years but never mongered.

Thanks, bro.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to correctly spell the words "you", "are" and "because". To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using "u" instead of "you", "r" instead or "are", "em" instead of "them", and "cuz" instead of "because", etc. Thanks!

Albert Punter
02-14-04, 20:07
Bad luck in Hanoi.

I was there only for a couple of days so, basing on your suggestions, I wanted to try Fortuna Hotel hostess bar and Hanoi Hotel massage.

Went to Fortuna, found the bar with live music and many girls around. However, I was unable to pick a girl. Maybe I did not understand how the system works there.
Normally in such places, you are almost assaulted by girls. Maybe there girls are discrete and wait you to make first move. Which I tried to do with 4 or 5 cuties who passed by me, smiling at them and saying "hallo, how are you". Nothing happened, they did not stop. Only girl available to talk to me, only knew "my name is", "what is your name", "where are you from". That's all.

If my memory serves me well, in Italian Fortuna means good luck.

Day after I had flight in the late afternoon. I managed to finish the business in the morning in order to hit at Hanoi Hotel massage. Well, I went there and I discovered that massage parlour is under renovation !

I really regret it was not possible to experiment some Vietnamese as they look very nice.

Hopefully next time will go better.

Seventh Sky
02-21-04, 19:45
Hello everyone!

I am glad to have found you at last because I need serious advice, I guess!

I spent the past two summers in northern Vietnam, travelling around and of course I was stunned by the girls there. To be honest I've never hired a hooker but I am really eager to.

In Hanoi, I went through several near to fuck (!) experiences, if I may say.

Hanging around Hoam Kiem Lake one evening, I noticed a westerner who was negociating real hard with a guy to get a girl but I could hear he was not so comfortable with going to somewhere he didn't know. He accompanied the hooker eventually.
Shortly after, a guy sat next to me and started to say that he was gay, then, seeing I wasn't into that business, he offered me to find a girl for me ( the deal was "officially" 2 hours for 30 dollars) after some talking, I didn't take the step because I was afraid of possible traps and hassle.

Later on, during my stay there, I went to a barber shop where I had a massage with two girls wanking me, and they accepted getting undressed and touched. I had discussed the price beforehand and all went perfectly. When we were finish, the two girls became real mad! One of them held me like a professional wresling competitor with her legs begging for more money, and wouldn't let me go!

Luckily enough I had not brought much with me and I had hidden the big notes in my shoes! But they eventually ripped me off the little money I had in my wallet! (I can't remember how much that was, but not much).

So, here I come, not deterred at all. I am going back there in a month, and though I extensively read the pages of this site, I'd like to get further advice for a rookie like me. Are there places safer than others in Hanoi for a beginner like me? Or tips to avoid some annoyances?

Any tip would be welcome.

Waiting for your enlightening answers.

Seventh Sky

PS: I had a fantastic experience in Cao Bang though. See my report in "other areas", if you are interested.

04-03-04, 16:33
Hanoi Report:

Just an update on the situation in Hanoi from a recent visit.

Out of Apolcalypse, New Century and Monaco, I fould the best selection in New Century. Pulled out of there on 2/3 nights for $30 ST. Apocalypse talent was a tad too old for my taste, some even pushing 40, but most 30+. Monaco was dead, but it may have been early. Absolutely zero in Relax Bar at 8pm.

Daewoo Hotel: Tried the sauna. Nice hardware, but the girl did not even get close to a HJ during a pretty good massage. She ended up calling in an "older" more experienced girl for a quick HJ for 10$ when I finally showed interest towards the end of the session. On the other hand, the talent in the nightclub (Club Q)
attached to the hotel is phenomenal. Absolute stunners. I paid 100$ LT, but it was worth every penny.

Quang Ba: Took the advise and went late afternoon. Complete waste of VND100k taxi fare from hotel and back. They tried to rip me off in every place I went. Started quoting VND500k ST. Finally agreed for 20US$, for a 4-5 in one place with the papasan. When the girl closed the door, she asked for more money immediately. I bolted. Not recommended.

Stopped in a small town about half hour from Hanoi. I wish I could remember the name. A small resort hotel built like a Chinese temple, with girls for 20$ ST including the room. The best value and close to a GFE. Does anybody know the place?


Reggie P
04-04-04, 21:21
I'm a semi-retired bloke (50 years old) thinking about moving to either China (Kunming or Chongqing) or Vietnam (Hanoi) to live. I'd love to have your opinions about the relative merits of each place. My priorities are:

1) Easy access to inexpensive girls whenever I feel like it, and possibility of having actual girlfriend considerably younger than me.
2) Low cost of living. Rent a decent apartment for USD $100-200, as one can in Thailand.
3) Safe to walk the streets.
4) Pretty city with lots of trees and parks
5) No government hassles about staying a long time, easy visa extensions.
6) Easy and inexpensive internet access, preferably cable internet.
7) Wholesome vegetables and fruits available without a lot of chemical contamination. Lots of tofu because I don't eat meat.

I previously lived in Thailand but left because that country became less tourist-friendly, and I started to realize that I like whiter skinned Viet or Chinese girls better than Thais.

Also, which language do you think is easier to learn? I would assume Vietnamese is much easier, because it uses the western alphabet.

I am from the US, and don't want to be killed by anyone who is angry about what my government did to Vietnam. Is this a problem?

Thanks for your thoughts. Also, please suggest other cities or towns if you think there are better places than Kunming, Chongqing and Hanoi.

04-05-04, 06:30
With all due respect, I suggest you take at least ONE nice long trip to VN before you consider moving there - and the same for S.W. China if you have not been yet.

Some of your questions reveal suprising naivete for an experienced expat - such as, "will I get killed," "is it safe to walk the streets," "is there easy and inexpensive internet access," etc.
I'll answer the last one since the first two are rather absurd unless you're maybe run over by a drunk moto boy. VND 3000/hr for internet access is pretty much the going rate.

Maybe you would have liked living in Northern Thailand (Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Mae Sai) where the girls are majority your type - fair skinned beauties - with a real Thailand experience as opposed just hanging out in Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, etc.

Lastly, even though the VNese use a type of Latin alphabet, Chinese Mandarin is a bit easier to master for most westerners. Probably only a tiny fraction of the expats living in either country make a serious attempt to become fluent with either rather hard to speak language.

You'll learn way more on the ground than words can guide you here - and knowledge is power.

James Khoa
04-06-04, 04:53
Mr. Reggie P,

Not going to recommend you to either places. As Asiaphile mentioned, you should tour the places you wish to live in. Maybe hang around for a month or 2. Try to blend and you'll probably find out which place is more suitable for you.

This is according to my personal opinion (please note that I have only been in Vietnam for 1.5 years, and China = 0 years)

Cleaniness = Cleaner than some countries I have been to.
Food = Not as cheap as China, but still darn cheap (this applies to market groceries, restaurants are cheap too, but I am not sure if it is cheaper than China)
Getting killed = Not unless you are a stupid fark and run around saying things that offends people, you'll probably be killed in ANYWHERE you go. As long as you are street smart, don't bad mouth people, you should be fine. Vietnam is one of the safest places I have been to. The motorcycles are a ****.
Girls = Presuming that I am amateur in this area, girls that can be picked up are everywhere (depending if you have what it takes, language skills, money, etc). It can be easy, it can be hard. But for $$ girls, HJ girls are everywhere. BJ girls are usually FJ girls, and they can be found relatively easy too, depending on your requirements.

Cleaniness = About the same as Vietnam (but I've not been to the place you mentioned, so I have no clue really)
Food = Dirt cheap, according to friends
Getting killed = please refer to the vietnam comments. Take it easy, play safe, don't wear jewelry like a christmas tree, you should be good.
Girls = Way more clueless than Vietnam (me I mean). I've been in and out of China (business mainly) and have absolutely no idea watsoever, as to where to get some (of course there are heaps of help here in WSG, but I'm just pretty densed). Anyway, according to friends, chinese girls are quite commercial, money is usually the main goal. Devious too, then again Vietnamese girls can be too, but at least most Vietnamese girls seem honest enough.

Remember though, these are MY opinions, you really should find out yourself. Renting an apartment is very easy in Vietnam. You can even stay in a hotel (local Vietnamese hotel) for around USD15/day. That will give you a clean bed, room, TV, mini-fridge and bathroom. You can even try to negotiate for a cheaper price, if you are going to stay for a month or so. Street name = Pham Ngu Lao, pronouced "Farm nooo loud", the "nooo" is pronouce less a cow moo, and "loud" is pronouce without the "d". (back packers area, heaps of foreigners, that should make you feel more comfy to begin with).

Again, China, no clue.

Silly Puppy
04-06-04, 21:31

AFAIK, both Vietnam and China are cheap to get girls/women. To me (as a Viet expat) I think China is a bit more expensive but easier to find girls. There are plenty of houses with extra room for rent in the budget you mentioned. For fruits and vegetable or food in general, you must decide it yourself since these poor people can do whatever to maximize their profits. Hey! who knows as your body may develop a level of resistance never heard of before after eating these suspicious foods! If you are afraid and not sure then stay home (US) and play choke the chicken which is much cheaper.

Reggie P
04-06-04, 22:52
Thanks for the replies. Actually, I have been to Kunming, but not any of the other cities. Did not have a chance to check out action in Kunming, though. I did live in Chiang Mai, it's largely a myth that the girls there are white like Chinese and Viets. Maybe some of them are whiter than Southern Thai girls, but it's not a very noticeable difference. As I mentioned, for a variety of reasons I don't think Thailand is for me anymore.

Some people have opined that Americans can get in trouble in VN because of lingering memories, that's why I asked. Also that VN streets in general are not as safe as in Thailand or Laos or China.

What are FJ girls? Can you get cheap action in VN? Like, I mean, 10-20 USD? Can you still get BJs for even less than that? Are police crackdowns a regular occurrence?

Well, actually in Chiang Mai I found a very nice hotel (not guest house) where I stayed long term on a lease and it worked out to about USD $100-120 a month. Can you find something like that in Hanoi?

Thanks again

James Khoa
04-09-04, 05:35
Dude (Reg.P),

Gonna try to help you out, to the best that I can (not that it is much), you will get much better information from the grandmasters in here.

War - long gone, long over, long forgotten (at least for most of the younger generation). Look, though I am not Viet (the nick is for picking up), and I haven't been in Viet for long. The overall vietnamese that I come across, they are more interested in making $$ off everyone else (including viet towards viet), no one really cares for that damn war. Its more of a money war now. (Mind you, all these comments are for HCM, Hanoi I have no clue).

Anyway just to increase a bit more of your Vietnam knowledge. HCM (saigon) is more of a business state. Its very much more commercial compared to Hanoi. And way bigger than Hanoi. Hanoi on the other hand is basically the "government state". Most of the head government officials are located in Hanoi.

Girls - which now brings us to the girls. (Again I stress, I'm no expert, cause I am having trouble finding pros myself... due to the situation I am in, but we'll not go into that). With what most friends tell me, Hanoi is actually easier to find pros (strange). But I can be wrong, cause I just don't know where to find them, full stop. Now if you are going to learn some vietn and, be mingling with the local crowd. You will find your "cheap" *****s. Hanoi seems to be cheaper too. But HCM, is ultimately bigger, so personally, I kinda like HCM more. Hanoi is just a cheap flight away anyway. Police crack down, happens, but nothing a USD20 can't get you out off, its like in LA, you hear them all the time, but you are never there. Don't worry too much, unless you go everyday, party every night at the most dodgey places, you will be fine. And in regards to the USD10-20 *****s, I am sure the locals are paying it, and again some grandmasters in here, but I don't know where to get them (good quality chicks I mean, low quality chicks are everywhere for USD10). Remember the street I told you before? (Pham Ngu Lao), plenty of them there during the night.

Lodging - Not sure if you can really find place within the USD100 range in Hanoi, but I do know that in HCM, you can rent a "local hotel room", much bigger than most "5 start hotels", just without the luxuries, business centers, room service, bar... you will have the basics, TV (no cable though), nice double bed (steady enough for some serious rocking), clothing cabinet, air-conditioning and working table. Price ranges from USD250-350/month (this is calculated from daily rate, you might get a better discount, if you rent monthly. There are USD100-200 ranges too (even lower actually), depending on the conditions you want.

That's about all I know buddy. FYI (for your information), FJ = Fark Jobs, BJ = Blow Jobs, HJ = Hand Jobs, you get the rest.

Reggie P
04-13-04, 01:25
Thanks. Great info.

Well, I guess I'll have to go investigate both places, which shouldn't be too hard, they're not far from each other. One thing I'm a bit worried about is that I've read that vegetables and fruit are pretty contaminated by chemicals in China; I don't know about VN, but I've heard that the VNese people have lots of the chemicals the US saturated the country with in their bodies. Double plus ungood. And I wonder how contaminated the food is there?

Thanks again.

Reggie P
04-16-04, 21:24
I have just been searching the web and mostly I'm finding that a tourist visa is good for just 30 days, though you can get a multiple entry visa for 6 months but each stay can be just 30 days. And extensions are 20 days for $25. Is this info correct? Is there a way a tourist can stay in VNam without having to leave so often and pay for extensions? Thanks.

04-17-04, 18:27
Reggie P

The visa say for 30 days, but it actually expired in 90 days, that what i understood. I just came back from VN a couple months ago, I asked for 30 days stay, which was from 01/08/04 to 02/08/04, but the visa expired was 04/08/04. I did check with a local official, because i extented my fly for 3 more day, he said i need a extensions if i want to stay more than the expiration date. But you can always get a 6 months visa which is cost you more $$. I'm Viet Kieu(Vietnamese living aboard) don't know is there a special treats for Viet Kieu or not. You can always get the resident visa up to 3 years, and you have to renewal every 3 years, check with the Vietnamese embassy to find out more. good luck!

04-17-04, 23:56
Visa lengths and various immigration options in Viet Nam (like all countries) are tied mostly to nationality. Japanese are treated differently than EU's, Taiwanese different than Canadians, etc. Prefered ASEAN members (like VN) different than all the rest.

Please stop assuming everyone here is a sacred (or is it scared!) US citizen or cares about repeated, boring non-mongering info that's easily searched elsewhere.

Back to the reason there is a WSG and a LP, WHO, etc. - for all the other nonsense. (that's Lonely Planet, World Health Org:)

04-18-04, 00:23
Reggie P:

The streets of Hanoi are the safest I have ever walked. Much safer than Thailand, the Philippines and any other place I've ever been. There's very little street crime in Hanoi, no hand guns, and a very vigilant police force. There is no animosity whatsoever toward Americans. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most Viets I met during my six month stay viewed the "American" war as just another obstacle to be overcome in the country's 1,000 year struggle to be free and united.

I do not know China well enough to comment on it in light of your criteria, but Hanoi meets them all.

Girls are quite easy to find in Hanoi and HCM, and there are numerous clubs, coffee houses, discos, and other places to meet a pretty broad range of women. I would advise you to relax, have a good time, enjoy the food and the rich and varied culture.


Reggie P
04-18-04, 21:45
Yes, I will search those other boards for visa info. You're right, it's not necessary here. Thanks, guys. This will be a tough choice. Maybe I will go to both places. Fact is, I know I really like Chinese girls (I mean the way they look, they get demerits for other things), but then I've had practically no experience with Viet girls, so it's a mystery still.

James Khoa
05-10-04, 02:44
People, need some assistance here.

Just read through the Hanoi reports, and notice that there aren't any "actual" info on short time places in Hanoi. Might be flying up sometime this week. Staying at Melia Hanoi Hotel (company paid, therefore don't really have a choice).

Basically, anyone know any places for "short time"? And what are the price range? Don't want to jack up the prices or get ripped off.

Extra Info: Stayed at Fortuna a while back ago. Called for a room massage (now that I think about it, strange how room massage is allowed), anyway can't say the massage girl was 10/10 in the looks department (more like a 6/10), but she farked me silly. Of course she asked for more than USD50 (for short time), which I read in these repots, is a bloody ripper. End up only giving jack sheet.

Anyway, really need the Hanoi masters to help me out. If possible, email me at [Email Address deleted by Admin]

Thanks in advance

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending removal of email addresses in the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system to obtain this information. Thanks!

Lance Toronto
05-10-04, 12:41
I will be there (Hanoi at the Harrison Hotel) from the 19th on for 10 days with a buddy who know the scene. He tells me there are a number of excellent places with lots of fantastic women (9 and 10s Plus). He says the price is $50 US for the girl, Long Time, and $20 to $30 for the Moma, who runs the girls, I think one of the best places is in the Hannoi hotel.

He and I have mongered around the world, Australia, NewZeland, all across Asia, Japan, China, most of Europe, let alone North America... He knows the ropes, and I trust his judgement, so we are vacationing in what he calls the best and most perfect and last of the good mongering locations left in the world.

I too have scoured the Hanoi posts and not seen much, but I trust his experience.

More to update when I return.

Lance Toronto

05-11-04, 08:42
Anyone (and there are way too many nowadays) paying ONE MILLION DONG to get pussy anywhere in VN shows they are damn serious fools, showoffs and ruining the scene! The going rate is as low as 30000d tip and 30000d mama fee at various venues in the suburbs and outskirts of Hanoi. Numerous cat toc (barbershops) in town provide service with a happy ending for around 80000d total. Hundreds and hundreds of these superb Hanoian lovelies are providing sexual services everyday for the local population with very few clueless tay (westerners) around - luckily! For god sakes, the official GDP annual income is average US$500 for all VN and only slightly higher for the captial. I am sick and tired of hearing about silly foreigners (Nips, Yanks, etc.) throwing $50-$75-$100 so senslessly at these fast being spoiled rotten VNese girls. Get a clue about the real VN or get out and don't cum back!

05-12-04, 04:42

As someone who is not Vietnamese but has been traveling-living in Vietnam for almost 10 years, all I say is that you get what you pay for. If you want a stunning and beautiful girl under 25 who can speak pretty good English, she will not be 80000 dong. You seem to like to go for the dogs, which is your choice. But I for one am getting a little tired of you putting everyone down including the Viet girls. Maybe you should stay out of Vietnam.

05-12-04, 08:01

Well said MrMeyers! I agreed with you 100%. I've been to VN several times and I must said a 1,000,000d was the average I paid for a couple hours with the girls. So any one paid 80,000 for a FS must have bang a dog or something similar!

05-12-04, 18:31
Well then how much do you pay Mr. Know It All? There's sure a helluva difference between a mil dong and 80000d. Blind foreigners who pay anywhere near the former simply do not know much of anything about the real VN and are obviously ignorant of its incredible nightlife diversity. Since this is the Hanoi section I can talk about my broad experience throughout the country since '91:
There are hundreds of gorgeous young girls (mostly mid-to-late teens and I stick w/at least 18-19) in the capital outskirts and nearby provinces for the later price or near it. The reason there are less available at the VN standard price in the big city is strong anti-vice police pressure, higher property values, code restrictions and fear of being seen by friends, neighbors, etc. (both local punter and provider). But there are still plenty of nice ones available in the city at far less than the ridiculous prices being quoted $100-$75-$50. I had a lovely Viet-den a couple of months ago at an outlying cafe tam who was 100000d total and she was very happy since I paid her near double tip what locals pay. I cannot not let stand anyone telling me that $100 (over 1.5 mil dong!) is an acceptable price in VN - that's a joke in a country with a GDP annual income of less than $500! Just stay in Sillypore, HKG, etc. where that may well be the standard price for top quality - but not in a country with the third world living standard of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

05-12-04, 21:05
Come on guys, all of you are right.
For foreigners, 1M up to $100 US a pop is anorm.
For people who knows the scene and places, a FS can be had for $50000.
I used to stay in Vn and the price I paid for stunning, young and most important tight and juicy was $150,000 to $200,000. That's for everything and I know the girl only get $80,000. So, if you can get those girls out to go to your place (appointment), that's a legit price (year 2000). I had service from those so-called high price at night time who works in the club and worked in the brothels at day time for just 1/10 of what they got from foreign customers.
Besides those young and can speak fluent English, any of those girls will have different price depends on who you are and where is the place.
If you know where to look, you can have a nice young girl all night for just merely $20-$30 US.
Peace and write report.

05-12-04, 21:23
Asiaphile Dude,

I would have to take side with MrMeyers; your attitude of putting down the fellow mongers here is getting old and non-constructive. There are number of factors which are worth to mentioned and considered, in regards to judge and make comments on the other individuals; especially, the foreigners who cannot speak the language, mongering activities.

With respect to my personal case, I have traveled SE-Asia in the past 10+ years; mostly business relates. I have had the opportunity to explore the variety of available mongering scenes, in VN. In regards to the utmost standard 80,000 dong for the happy ending service ( BJ ) in those shabby, filthy BBS for the local population, of yours. Have been there and sample it. Thanks, but no thanks. Relax and sit tight, dude! I do not believe that many of the clueless Westerners will be hook with those quality services of yours to ruin it, once having a chance to experiment with.

I do concur with you that This forum (VN) is rather weak, the general downward drift in quality for whatever reason, made up of too much flaming, etc. , from your previous 8/23/03 post. But, take a closer look and notice that frequently the similar $%*&@ attitude like yours towards the others at these VN threads would speak for itself, isnt it ? For whatever the reason, if you cannot or do not want to openly contribute your valuable opinion/knowledge, as it has shown through yours previous posts. Then, be civilized at least to allow the others; especially the newbies, have the courage to freely share their good & bad experiences, which would be somewhat benefit to our fellow mongers of this thread.

My 2 cents worth! Gosh, I hate myself to doing this.

Lance Toronto,

The LT with the under 25 yrs., 9-10 scale Vietnamese beauty, at US$50. Happy for you to have such connection, pal. Do not forget to fill the FR, afterward.

05-12-04, 21:32
You get what you paid for and that's the international standard regardless of where you are hunting and your background. If you prefer girls from country side or poor areas of VN then I can understand why $10 or 15$ FS is possible. Maybe your taste of a WOMAN is different compare to the rest of us mongers. Enough said.

05-13-04, 14:28

"You get what you pay for." After 25 years mongering in SE Asia, I have to say this is not always the case. There are exceptions to every rule. For example, on a recent trip to Hanoi, I sampled at $20, $30, $100. From a service standpoint, I have to say there was not much difference. From an appearance standpoint, the $100 was only slightly better looking than the $20. The $30 ones were only average looking. Having said that, generally speaking, the higher the price the better the looks, but usually the lower the service quality in my experience. The cheaper, less attractive, ones seem to try harder to please.

In any case, there is no sense in flaming any fellow mongers for paying too much. By sharing info on this forum, they will learn to sharpen their negotiation skills.

Just my POV


Silly Puppy
05-25-04, 03:04
As a frequent traveller to China and Taipei I'd agree with Asianphile that paying $100 for a pop in VN is indeed stupid. In hotel like Golden Palace in Donguan you can have a 15 min hot sauna, a massage for 15 min, your asshole being licked by a beautiful young girl of 18 for 15 min, tongue bath for 15 min, then fuck her in different positions for another 15 min, then enjoy another 30 min massage - the total cost is 638 rmb or roughly $80. In Shenzhen you can get a beautiful girl who lives in flats next to a hotel for $300 to $400 rmb for 1 pop. In Shanghai, the cost should not be more than $500 rmb for non-chinese speaking folk like me.

Think about national GNP as you mongers go hunting in these countries. You are spoiling the prostitutes and make us suffer thanks to your stupidity. In general, a pop cost $50 in DongGuan China should only costs $25 as VN's GDP is only about 1/2 of China's ($2300 vs. 4700).

05-25-04, 21:47
Just a reminder that this is Hanoi, Vietnam. Write your post about China else where.

Everyone's budget is different. Some stay in Vietnam a month max and others stay as long as nine months! The "nine months" people are 99.9% unemployed and therefore, they are on a very tight budget while staying and mongering in Vietnam. The local Vnese folks even look down on these type of Viet Kieu because they know that these VK are unproductive and useless of which ever country that they are from abroad.

The bottom line is that; if you don't have the money to play then stay out of Vietnam and do your mongering elsewhere that fit your current budget!

Silly Puppy
05-26-04, 18:10

The purpose of bringing China mongering activities is for comparision., no more no less. Everyone has his/her own opinion and Asianphile's or mine may be different than yours but it doesn't mean we or you are wrong.

If you have money to burn you can burn it anywhere and anytime. VN is only a place for mongering like others and you should feel proud of yourself for helping these poor prostitutes with your money. A lot of us have enough money but we don't burn it blindly. Does it mean we are cheap? Probably! But this doesn't neccessarily mean we should stay out of a poor country like VN. I had chance to get bar girls (ca ve) in Maxim bar when I was in my teens in 1974/1975. At the time, cost of getting them for 1 night was only couple bucks (US). One pop in Tan Binh was only $1 or less. Of course we can't compare it now and then but the truth is that getting prostitutes in VN is still cheap and no one can say "spend more" because one has more money to burn than the others.

05-27-04, 02:31
James Tran,

Please forgive me for not knowing that you're old and over the hill type of member here. I thought that you are still in your 30's like myself.

I have wasted my time here. Good luck to you.

Best regards.

05-27-04, 06:41
Hello Fellow Forum Members!

I will be going to Hanoi soon

I have about 3 days in Hanoi and and about a week in a place near by to Hanoi

Whilst in Hanoi, I will be staying at Sheraton Hanoi. What is the scene in this hotel as far as p4p is concerned?

Any help for definitive contacts in Hanoi would be much appreciated.



Mango Jango
06-01-04, 07:11
Vietnam women are stunners. In comparison Thai and Cambodge look like humpty dumpty

Not difficult to chat up a college girl who will be our tour guide and girlfirend. They are not only stunning but also innocent. don't insult the college girls by offering them money. Buy them gifts.

If you're looking for quick pickups, the bestplace to pick up a pro in my exp. is the Fortuna Hotel's disco (basement)

You walk into a bloody buffet of Tits & Ass thats to die for. The drinks and dances are cheap. The dress slutty. Under those lights their skin glows like floursecent fish in a tank. You'll spend about $20 max for the squuezes, drinks and dances. You can't spend more unless you're an idiot.

If you want to take her out, the girl will cost about $50, not for the night but till you've emptied your balls many times over.

The five star hotels like Melia and Hilton are superb. Not too guest friendly but not impossible.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard capitalization throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no capital lettering. Thanks!

06-05-04, 04:47

The women in Vietnam are wonderful, and I think they are probably the best looking in Asia. I don't like the Fortuna much as every time I'm there I feel like the place is trying the hustle me out of every last dime. There are so many other places where you do not have to pay any fines, buy any drinks, or be subject to any prodding that I avoid the Fortuna now. I prefer the New Century and Apocalypse Now, though I've also picked up women in regular restaurants and bars. For the latter , I never had to pay but, as you said, bought some inexpensive gifts that were much appreciated.

06-05-04, 12:07
James Tran,

I also remember the old days (circa 1990), though not as far back as you I paid $5 ST in HCMC/Hanoi and only $2 in Vung Tau. Funny thing was, even then, the girls in the better places were still getting 50$ LT in those days.


G Jelly
06-19-04, 13:27

I'm going to be in Hanoi tomorrow for a couple days. Anyone want to join me in exploring Quang Ba? For those of you who need help with a Vietnamese translator, I speak Viet very well. Just PM me.

On The Road
06-20-04, 15:44
Hi fellow mongers,

I'm planning my trip to Vietnam, next August, and my first stop will be in Hanoi. I was able to find enough information about HCMC but not so much about Hanoi, mainly regarding accomodation.
I would like to find a girlfriendly Hotel, I'm looking for a cheap hotel (in the 10-20 US$ range, I hope), just clean and safe with AirCon but I don't need many other amenities.

What I found looking in the board is:
Elegant II, 107 Trieu Viet Vuong - room at US$25. Seems to be girlfriendly.
North Hotel, 15, Hang Ga . It seems very cheap and very friendly, but I don't know anything else.
Hang Nga Hotel, 65 Cua Bac St., Ba Dinh District. Internet rate US$29, girlfriendly.

Any suggestions? Thanks a lot.

Reports will follow, as usual.

G Jelly
06-23-04, 04:09
Found a pretty much all-hours "Massage Mat" place. 32 Le Duan. Pretty much operates on donations only, so pay whatever you think is standard.

06-23-04, 16:39

Try the Elegant II. It's an excellent choice, an easy walk to Apoocalypse now and short cab rides from everywhere else. Don't believe the $25. You can bargain them down to about $20 and less if you're staying for a longer time. Also the place is in easy walking distance of some nice restaurants, and it's on a reasonably quiet street, so you won't be hassled all night. Girls are no problem at all.

06-24-04, 08:23
Good Enough,

Do you know what area or street name Elegant II is at. Will be in Hanoi from July 16-19. Any bros in Hanoi around that time that want to hang out let me know. I speak reasonable vietnamese. Cheers.


G Jelly
06-25-04, 02:51

A couple posts below, you'll see the address for Elegant II.

Elegant II, 107 Trieu Viet Vuong.

I'm checking in there tonight, so I'm hoping for the best.

G Jelly
06-25-04, 08:51
Just checked into the Elegant II. FYI, the price I got was 250,000 dong, which is roughly $17.

06-25-04, 22:20
G Jelly: Thanks for reporting back on your satisfaction with your stay there. Going to Hanoi in July and still undecided on hotel to use.

On The Road
06-25-04, 23:50
Thanks a lot for the infos, and keep us updated please!


07-07-04, 05:24
Going to Hanoi in September:

This will be my first trip to Hanoi from Sept 8 until 19. If anyone around during that time, I would love to meet to find out about the local news. Also if anyone needs a wing-man, during those time, PM me.

How is security getting in/out of Hanoi? How much should I budget for the 10 days? I am planning to book a hotel for 1 day just so I have a place to stay when I arrived and then head over to Elegant II. Is there a way to book Elegant II from the US?


Lance Toronto
07-11-04, 23:32
Hi Guys.... well, Hanoi is wonderful.... Elegant II is a nice cheap hotel, I have been there and seen rates from $10, to $20, U.S. I personally stay at the Hanoi Harrison.. business, $67 per night, but a good 4 star plus location and hotel...

I would recommend visiting the Club at the Hanoi Hotel, the best club as far as I'm concerned and if you dont find anything you like there, usually 50 plus girls.. then you standards are crazy, since I would rate most of these girls 8 to 9's.... and the Philipino band is great... they just changed the rules a little, $7.00 cover now, before it was free, and drinks are around $7.00 for a beer..

Girls get a couple of bucks from each drink you buy.... to take them back to your hotel is usually $50, for sort time, and $60 for long time, plus I would recommend $20 for the momason... especially if you plan on going there more than once...

Guys... do me a favour... this is a really wonderful girlfriend type experience... and I have personally met a wonderful girl there and see her every time I go over... SO BE NICE... treat them as girlfriends and you will not believe the service you get..

I'm usually there every three weeks or so....

Find a nice girl, get her for a couple of days and take a side trip to Hanlong Bay... it's wonderful... and the money you pay the girl will help keep your costs down with the locals...

Have Fun.... Lance

07-21-04, 10:48
hi everyone,

i've been reading this site for quite a while now and am thankful for all the valuable information that i've collected.

i will be heading to hanoi for a business trip next month and would like some input from fellow mongers here.

1. i've been given an option to stay at either the hanoi hilton opera, melia hotel or nikko hanoi hotel. which is best for location, girl-friendliness and proximity to places where i can find some nice vietnamese girls? company is paying, so i don't really care about hotel cost.

2. would appreciate any other do's and don'ts besides what i've read in this forum so far.

3. i'm more interested in "short time" girls rather than having a 'girlfriend' the entire trip. any recommendations?

thanks very much in advance.

the speedster.

07-23-04, 10:37

i would try the hilton opera for proximity to women. however, you may want to check out how girl friendly the place is before you make the reservation. i am not sure. as to short timers, try apocalypse now, new century or any of the many hostess bars in the hotels rep001tered around town.

Lance Toronto
07-25-04, 00:38
hey speedster,

first, any of the hotels you talk about are ok, however, they will not be as girl friendly as you might like. any of the hotels will be reasonable, after about 10:00 you will need to take the girl to the front desk and she will give them here viertnam id and away you go.. they will add $10.00 to your bill, so if your concerned about what will show on the bill as a guest charge, register as a double and get two room keys and two breakfast coupons and then your done.

i have stayed in all three of these hotels and prefer another, the horrison hanoi, 4 to 5 star hotel, nice pool, close to down town and two good girl facilities close by, even a walk if you don't want to spend $1.00 us for a cab. order a car from the hotel to meet you at the airport if you have not been there before, it will be around $25.00 and they will add it to your room, a cab is $20, but this is much better.

i prefer the club in the hanoi hotel, wonderful club, upstairs from the main lobby on the right, 50 to 100 beautiful women a night, and two other clubs just blocks away if you don't find something to your taste here, which i think is impossible. lately, they changed the policy, there is now a $7.00 u.s. cover and drinks are $7.00, and the philipano girl band is fantastic, really high class place.

the madam will show you some where between 25 to 30 girls at a time, all with numbers, and you can walk around and look at all the girls before you decide. when you decide the girl will sit with you, buy her a drink, if you don't like her after a while, just tell the madam you would like to see other girls. most girls are $50 to $60 for the night, and $20 for the madam, to take them back to your hotel. when you have paid, go down to the lobby of the hotel and wait for the girl to change and meet you. this is a classy operation, they know me well, and you treat them right, and you will get the best service you have ever had anywhere.

i'm planning on being in hanoi on the july 30th to august 2nd and back on august 12th to the 19th, if your going to be around.

if your into watches at all, there are places close to the lake at the center of town that sell perfect copies for $50 to $70. u.s. bargin like hell, it's fun.

resturants are great, and try the food on the street, and in the beer halls, for .50 cents on the street you will be amazed how good it is... even though you don't want a "girl friend" if you find one that speaks good english, book her for the next night, and get her to take you to a vietnam seafood resturant, and order and give her the money to pay for the meal, you will have a great time... $50 to $60 for the girl for the night and a good dinner experience can't be beat.

now if you have a full day, get the hotel to get you a car and driver for the day and go to hanlong bay, get a boat and sea food on the boat.... the whold day, car, driver, boat, food and everything.... for one, or two, or more of you will be $200 to $250, and one of the best experiences you have ever had... take a girl with you... live...


07-26-04, 04:36
hi there lance (and goodenough),

thank you so much for your very detailed post. i should be arriving on aug 1st night and leaving the following saturday (7th). will be rather busy at work during the weekdays but am planning to go nuts on friday. looks like i might have to extend my departure to sunday and give this halong bay excursion a shot.

the place at hanoi hotel sounds very good too. failing any other recommendations, i think i shall be heading there.

i have been to ho chi minh city before but only for 2 nights and was rather busy then too. couldn't really do much then but the vietnamese girls were just so pretty. i'm a little excited about this trip seeing that it's a little longer and i have the time to savor a vietnamese girl or two. and with the info you've given me, i might not have to trial and error either. :)

i have not brought a girl back to my hotel room before and this deal about having to check her in at the front desk is kinda worrying (read "embarrassing"). is there anything i can do to avoid this? also, does the girl stay the night and leave in the morning or does she leave after the deed is done?

once again, thanks a whole lot for the advice.

the speedster.

Nick Belane
07-26-04, 06:03
A public service announcement:

You should all be made aware that Apocalypse Now is Apocalypse No More. The place has been shut down, gutted and now looks as though it is being renovated as office space.

07-26-04, 07:11
With all due respect to Lance, he seems like a star struck rookie in VN - and especially Ha Noi which has a GDP income only about half that of HCM City. I like his enthusiasm, but unless you're on a company expense account or the spoiled nephew of Donald Trump, a reality check is in order:

1.) $20-$25 for a ride from Noi Bai Intl Airport into town - ridiculously high! Many "private" hotels have free airport pickup or you can negotiate in the parking lot a taxi for $8-$10. Just look for a newer aircon cab and maybe a driver with a bit of English.

2.) Paying $10 joiner fee is excessive and not necessary IF you know the ropes in VN. There are dozens and dozens of private tourist class hotels all over VN (including Ha Noi) where you can pay an average of $15-$25 for excellent girl friendly accomodations. IMO, if a joiner fee is required it should never be more than 50000-60000d.

3.) Ha Noi Hotel and its $7 drinks! WOW! A bia hoi (fresh beer) is 5000d (35 cents) on any corner anywhere in Viet Nam. The drinks, the cover charge, the girls prices, all this nonsense including a laughable Philipino girl band is way out of line unless you are somebody who knows or cares nothing about VN. Up to you, as they say...

4.) $70-$80 for a girl in VN is simply overpaying. The country has an official GDP annual income of only around $500 - higher by 50-100% in the big cities. There are plenty of very nice girls available in Ha Noi for around $20 total - including LT if she likes you. Various brothel cafes and cat toc have fees of 30000-60000d to mama and around the same amount to girl. Once you get beyond the pseudo-luxury plastic world of 4-5 star hotels you can discover the REAL VIET NAM.

5.) Don't buy a piece of junk fake Rolex for $50-$70 - offer maybe $15. Most of these fake pieces fall apart in no time.
I take it back - buy one or two of the fakes. At least you are giving the money to the REAL people who need it and deserve a break - not the corrupt, elitist Communist Peoples Committee who own nearly all the luxury hotels and tourist related industries in the Socialist Republic.

Chao tam biet.

07-26-04, 08:50
Hi Asiaphile,

Thanks very much for your alternate point of view and advice. From your post, I take it that you are very much a local or at least know the local scene very well.

As for me, being a first timer to Hanoi and not knowing the ropes and how to deal with certain situations, your advice is very much appreciated. However, I'm not sure if I want to venture out and look for real cheap deals for a piece of ass. I just want to know of the 'safe' places to go where I can get some good quality girls at a reasonable price.

Back to the topic at hand. The massage at the Hanoi hotel seems like a must-try. Sensual massages with happy endings are quite a turn-on for me. Does anybody know if they have this sorta massage at the Hilton Opera or Nikko Hotel?

Lance Toronto
07-26-04, 12:34
i think i would like to see what speedster has to say to your notes and my notes. the directions i gave him are for someone on a first visit who whats not issues and lots of fun. if you read his request, he will not be able to negociate as easily as you seem to think. with respect to your posts:

with all due respect to lance, he seems like a star struck rookie in vn - and especially ha noi which has a gdp income only about half that of hcm city. i like his enthusiasm, but unless you're on a company expense account or the spoiled nephew of donald trump, a reality check is in order:

response: i prefer a class enviornment, no sense putting you down or building myself up, just preference and yes, money is not a real problem and i would rather spend more and get more.

1.) $20-$25 for a ride from noi bai intl airport into town - ridiculously high! many "private" hotels have free airport pickup or you can negotiate in the parking lot a taxi for $8-$10. just look for a newer aircon cab and maybe a driver with a bit of english.

response: last trip, there was a couple of official guys from the government directing taxis.. i will grant you that there is private non government run taxis for less, but as of late, the official government posted rate is now $20 for taxi. has it been a while since your were there?

2.) paying $10 joiner fee is excessive and not necessary if you know the ropes in vn. there are dozens and dozens of private tourist class hotels all over vn (including ha noi) where you can pay an average of $15-$25 for excellent girl friendly accomodations. imo, if a joiner fee is required it should never be more than 50000-60000d.

response: agreed. elegant ii is a wonderful hotel if your company is not paying, but if your read, you will notice he is on an expense account and my directions were of two fold, to help prevent him from being embarassed when called to the front desk by the hotel staff and to avoid the embarassed addition charge that may show up on his expense account. may be you should read before you respond.

3.) ha noi hotel and its $7 drinks! wow! a bia hoi (fresh beer) is 5000d (35 cents) on any corner anywhere in viet nam. the drinks, the cover charge, the girls prices, all this nonsense including a laughable philipino girl band is way out of line unless you are somebody who knows or cares nothing about vn. up to you, as they say.

agreed, there are cheaper and more expensive places. as you will not i said upscale. as you say there are lots of cheap beer places for 35 cents, and you will notice that i did recommend the street lunches. be fair, the gentlement is a first timer. lets help him, he will learn the ropes on the second and third trips.

4.) $70-$80 for a girl in vn is simply overpaying. the country has an official gdp annual income of only around $500 - higher by 50-100% in the big cities. there are plenty of very nice girls available in ha noi for around $20 total - including lt if she likes you. various brothel cafes and cat toc have fees of 30000-60000d to mama and around the same amount to girl. once you get beyond the pseudo-luxury plastic world of 4-5 star hotels you can discover the real viet nam.

agreed, finding the real vn and the nice $20 girls takes time. i laugh when i see the girls in the "plastic" world, beautiful dresses and you know the girls don't own the dresses, but again, think, he is a first timer. you can't expect someone who is traveling alone to vn the first time to experience what you may experience speaking the language and having been there a number of times. i'm now learning vn language and branching out and there is a whole wonderful world of vn, and frankly if i could legally, i would live in vn. as it is, i visit my office in vn as often as possible, and have an arrangement with a local girlfriend i see every week or two. vn is a poor country no doubt, what really worries me is what happens to it in 5 years when more tourists flock to vn... when you go to hanlong bay, as far as you can see they are building condo's and golf courses. if you think the vn people are opressed now, just wait.

5.) don't buy a piece of junk fake rolex for $50-$70 - offer maybe $15. most of these fake pieces fall apart in no time.

i take it back - buy one or two of the fakes. at least you are giving the money to the real people who need it and deserve a break - not the corrupt, elitist communist peoples committee who own nearly all the luxury hotels and tourist related industries in the socialist republic.

response: again, you must be missinformed. there are $15 and $20 dollar rolex watches and yes they are junk. there is a new store, wish i could remember the address, right by the german beer pub by the lake. that carries about 30 different manufacture (fake) watches for $50 to $70, where the quality is excellent (same kind of inner works you would get in north america for the same money), but they carry the high end brand name and looks. much more cost effective than paying $8000 in the u.s.

it is obvious you know more of the real vn than i do, i travel for business and don't mind spending my money to help the people of vn, and yes i do over pay (give money to my girlfriend, and yes, she more than likely has multiple guys like me), but please read someone's post and understand that as first timers, they need help they can execute. your advice is excellent for someone who goes regularly, or lives in the area. not a first timer.

sorry, that's my two cents. help people, do not lead them down roads they are incapable of traveling without the language and or experience.

just my two cents.

chao tam biet.


editor's note: posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to remove the multiple periods throughout the text. to avoid delays in future reports, please consider using a comma to separate the phrases in your sentences and a single period at the end of each sentence. thanks!

07-26-04, 18:43
Who would in their right mind; especially if you're a foreign touris, to sit at any corner in Vietnam for a 35 cents glass of "bia hoi"?? Why would you want to torture yourself by sitting out in the heat, sweating like a damn dog, breathing dirt and foul smells from the streets, just to save a few bucks while supposedly you're on vacation for some stress relieve!

A $7 drink is well worth every penny! You get to sit in a nice club/bar with wonderful atmosphere. You get to enjoy aircon, music/lights, exellent services from many cocktail waitress ready to please you, lots of beautiful working girls walking around to entertain and keep you company while you there, and you get the convenient for some take out right before your eyes!

Having said that; you need to simply ask yourself one question. What type of drink would you prefer?

Although I have to agreed with Asia regarding hotels in Vietnam. Unless your company is paying for all your expenses, do not stay at expensive hotels if you are planning to bring girls back. It just not worth all the hassles! If you've been through it, then you know what I mean. There are thousand of privately own mini-hotels all over Vietnam, their rates are usually $15-$20 a night and they are girl friendly 24/7. With this price you will get a nice standard room with aircon, hot water for shower, and all the same amenities you would get if you were at Marriott hotel. Although I have stayed at many hotels in Saigon, I have never paid for a "joiner fee" and only learned of this fee by reading this forum.

07-26-04, 19:25
Dear Lance Toronto;

I enjoy reading your post. It seems you had a great time in Vietnam. I envy you! Please read my previous post to Asiaphile below.


My suggest to you is that; don't criticize other people on how much they paid for a good time because you are only a one man band! It is great that you mention how much you paid each time you played so we can get a general idea, but don't call anyone "arrogant" and "stupid" for not paying the same price as you do. Here is why: There are so many sluts running around in Saigon and no one is screwing a same **** at the same time, and every "session" is a different experience for each monger. I am sure you have a vault of "knowledge and experience", but your "taste and style" might not be the same as the guy sitting next to you. I don't know about anyone else; but when I only have 3 weeks to stay in VN each time I visit, "money" is an issue I seldom think about. This have nothing to do with how much money I have to burn or how arrogant I am, it is about working hard and play harder when I get a chance for some stress relief. As you mention you had a "bia hoi" for 5,000d before you headed back to your hotel. It sounds refreshing and cheap! But that does not mean that a glass of "bia hoi" is the same quality and taste as a bottle of Ken, maybe it is to you but definitely not to me and many other people. So please take one's style and taste, as well as "quality and service" into consideration when you criticize people who paid 1,000,000d and above for a FS.

07-26-04, 23:36
Asiaphile - Well done!

07-27-04, 10:34
Well thanks!
I sometimes get jumped on a bit here by a few when I discuss the REAL price of anything in Viet Nam - even though I have made dozens of trips all over the country since '91 and just returned last month. I think I have done and seen almost everything there but I still learn something new each time I travel around VN. I have stayed at $200 nite hotels - that was the standard room rate at HCM New World in the mid 90's (it's now around $60). I have stayed at suprisingly nice $17 (suite!) private hotels like the one I had at Nha Trang for a week or my fave in HCM for $20 - all very girl friendly. The joiner fee in HCM was 60000d with no add on in NT - I just tipped the nite boys nicely and they brought me some lovely choices whenever I requested. For me the bottom line is, I hate to be ripped off, taken advantage of, taken for a fool, get the mafia punk shakedown (a way of life in HCM), and all the other BS that can pile up fast in VN for unsuspecting newbies.
Let me give you in inside scoop from listening to casual conversations with bia om girls for years in HCM City, Ha Noi, Nha Trang, Hai Phong, Da Nang, etc. How many times have we all heard, "hundred dollah honey." It's total nonsense in dirt poor Viet Nam and they expect you would know it... but some (maybe many?) star struck foreign punters bargain very little or not at all and blindly pay it! If you bargain she will always come down, usually right away, "okay honey for you one million dong" (I never let anyone in VN know I carry USD - only VND). Well, let's see that makes it around $63. I still think that is quite high even for a "so-called superstar." I promise with friendly bargaining you can get FS at about half that or around max. 500000d. Maybe then you can throw her another 50000d-100000d for excellent LT service. That's 500K in HCM City but often less in Ha Noi or anywhere upcountry. This is the realistic price in the big city bia om or high class clubs - much less elsewhere such as cat toc/hot toc, massa/sauna, cafe tam, etc. So that's my 200d throw away toilet paper opinion on price for lam tinh (make love). And everyone knows that opinions are like assholes - we all have one.

07-27-04, 19:06

You're far more knowledgeable than I about VN, but I think you also should have mentioned that picking up "normal" women, in shops, coffee houses, in hotels and on the street is not all that difficult, and represents maybe the cheapest alternative of all.

07-27-04, 22:48
GoodEnough - GoodPoint.

I have mentioned the relative ease of picking up "regular girls" in VN here and elsewhere before. In my broad Far East experience, the only other country where I have found this a productive strategy is select parts of Indonesia. Certainly not in Thailand or Philippines where the sex industry is wide open, ingrained and where so-called sex tourists are looked down on; China with a bit more skeptical, suspicious women; then all the developed countries in the region which are not much more socially/economically different than expensive, boring western societies.

Yes, in VN picking up local hotel workers, coffee shop cuties, postcard selling girls, fruit selling girls, college moto girls and semi pros of all stripes on most any corner is often the fun, interesting, least expensive way I go. It probably represents about 50% of the ones I end up with for all kinds of reasons:

VN girls hate being looked down on as prostitutes (it's a BIG cultural and legal taboo!); they simply LOVE a nice foreign "boyfriend;" you represent a ticket out of the commie state (southern girls usually VERY interested in getting out); lots of naive and/or unspoiled curiousity about foreigners with mass tourism relatively new; many local VNese men are not seen as good prospects (lacking upward mobility in "the system"); or the chain smoking dudes (very few girls smoke or smoke much!) seem only about pimping girls at some obnoxious street mafia level - I could go on and on.

07-28-04, 05:54

Now you made me nostalgic for the department store and office worker cuties I used to bring home when I was living in Jakarta. I may have to go back soon just to repeat the experience.

07-28-04, 07:11
Quoting: "Last trip, there was a couple of OFFICIAL guys from the govt directing taxis... blah, blah."
That's the point - just another corrupt communist monopoly which is evident all over OFFICIAL VN but there are GOOD and SMART "PRIVATE" alternatives. To repeat: Many PRIVATE HOTELS will pick up guests at Noi Bai (or Tan Son Nhat) for FREE so paying $20 for a govt owned taxi is a rip-off for the 30-35 minute ride into Ha Noi. The REAL price is $8-$10. Overpaying without any bargaining simply lines the pockets of the greedy govt mafia gang who have run that same racket inside Noi Bai for over a decade. This kind of basic info is available in many VN travel guide books- so it seems rather boring here. I was in Ha Noi last month and paid VND150000 when I left from my place out to the airport. When I arrived at Noi Bai on a flight from Phu Bai, I was picked up for free by my private mini hotel. While in Ha Noi I hired the driver who spoke very little English but with a newer Toyota Crown for 350000d daily and had him at my service from around 10am-12 midnight. I tipped him with a few 5000d bia hoi - ha ha!
Basically, the only thing I have to ask is, what's this about Apoc Now getting turned into office space??
I stand behind my statement that a $7 beer anywhere in VN is a laughable rip off and that there's lots of friendly and fun alternatives where you don't have to break a sweat, paying a helluva LOT LESS for the same overall quality.

07-28-04, 08:33

It seems to me that you have an issue with money and it appears that you traveled to Vietnam on a tight bugget everytime. true? If that is the case then just let me know and I will try to help you out so you can relax and really enjoy what VN has to offer without worrying what's left in your pocket or overpaying the girls for some good time! Okay?

So what if some guys paid a little more for taxi fares? So what if some guys paid $20-$30 more for an overnite of wild sex with a ****? So what if some guys paid $20 or more for "joiner fee" so they can get the sluts up into their room? So what if some guys got rip-off at Ben Thanh market? So what if some guys decline a 35cents glass of "bia hoi" and prefer a $7 cocktail instead? So what and so what? who cares? It is their money and they can spend however they like as long as they are happy in pussy-land, and as long as they can take their mind of their work and problems back home in the real world! That is the general idea why they traveled to VN in the first place.

Does it ever occur to you that some guys travel to VN just to have "a good time"? Does it ever occur to you that some guys are loaded with money that they don't bother to bargain for a piece of pussy because bargaining may ruin the mood? Does it ever occur to you that some guys would rather pay a liittle for the convenient of getting a good time? Does it ever occur to you that time is not on some guys' side? Does it ever occur to you that some guys "taste and style" are different than others? Does it ever occur to you that some guys just simply have "more class" than others? Does it ever occur to you that some guys would just willing to put out extra money because they don't want to be hassle by anything when they are in VN for some stress relieve?

As you have mentioned in your previous posts. You like to bargain for the cheapest piece of pussy possible, you prefer sitting on a corner somewhere in VN for a 35cents glass of Bia Hoi rather than a $7 cocktail at a nice bar, so on and so on. That is good for you! That's your personal "taste and style", and you shouldn't feel ashame or be embarrass about it. Just don't compare yourself to others!

It is good that you mentioned how much you paid each time you played so we can get the general idea of what to expect. But don't put others down just simply because they paid more than your normal rates, and don't self-proclaimed yourself to be "Mr. experienced and know it all" because it is so obvious that your "taste and style" are so different from many members here in this forum.

07-28-04, 15:51

Did you ever try the local bars that proliferate all over Hanoi, and where the beers cost about .$25 and you can sit all day long and bullshit with the girls on the street, and get a bowl of noodles for another $.50 or so? Anyone who pays 7 bucks for a beer in Vietnam, unless he's entertaining one of the local officials, is mentally ill.

07-29-04, 00:04

Actually, I rarely drink beer as I much prefer a fresh da chanh (lemon drink) or sit in a ca phe den mau (dark light cafe) - sipping the great VNese coffee which remains one of the best venues to meet regular girls of all stripes. I am not going to get into a tit for tat on uninformed, childish comments of others like, "I will try to help you out so you can afford a $7 beer at Ha Noi Hotel." If this silly type was living in and among the expat community in Ha Noi or HCMC which I have they would NOT be speaking this big shot line or they would instantly be persona non gratta. The totalitarian commies love such spoiled foreigners who suck up to them and their state owned monopoly BS - but the real, struggling people of VN are not impressed. I stand in solidarity with the average VNese people against the corrupt state mafia. For the record a bowl of food stall pho is about $.50 cents in Ha Noi but about double that amount in HCM.

07-29-04, 00:45
Dear Asiaphile,

If you really hate the commies that much and all that talk about make the elite officials more richer; guess what? DO NOT COME TO VIETNAM! It doesn't matter how much you spend in Vietnam from $1 to $10,000; as soon as you step out of the airport, YOU ARE BRINGING $$$ DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY INTO THEIR POCKETS! You are changing NOTHING when comes to street vendors by eat their dirty bowl of soup or drink a dirt-cheap glass of home-made [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) beer, because a portion of what you paid to the street vendors will go to the street thugs for protection and to the locol cops for not hassassing them! So it doesn't matter if someone is dirt-cheap and poor like youself or having much money to burn like myself, we are all contributing to the commies as long as we are continuing to travel to Vietnam for some pussy action. So get it clear in your little narrow-minded head; and stop comparing things, stop pointing out how much the average Vnese make in a year, or how the poor have to suffer because frankly no one cares! Everyone here traveled to Vietnam for one thing and one thing only; that is to srcew many girls as possible for some stress relieve!

If you are on a Humanitarian Mission in Vietnam then I suggest for you to get the hell out of this forum!

07-29-04, 01:29

I only lived for six months in Vietnam, all of it in Hanoi, though I did get the chance to travel to other parts of the country, from the rural provinces and villages to the large cities like HCMC, Danang, Hue and others. It took me about two weeks to learn the lessons that you summarize in your excellent posts. I lived in two worlds while there: one, the mafia-controlled, corrupt and exploitative world which my clients inhabited. In this world, Johnny Walker Blue Label, Martell Cognac and high-priced call girls premomindated. The other, in which thankfully I lived in most of the time, was the world of local food, indigenous coffee shops and bars, and the street life as described in your posts.

The tragedy (perhaps too dramatic a word) for the guys who want to live only in the Vietnam of $7 beers, expensive women and western retaurants is not that they're pissing money away; after all it's their money. They will however, miss the rich culture, wonderful people, excellent food and dynamism of the "real" Vietnam, which persists despite the greed and heavihandedness of the rulers of the country.

Keep up the good work.


Silly Puppy
07-29-04, 02:39

What we need to know in the forum is " How to get girls cheap in a poor country like Vietnam!" If money is not a problem I guess all of us will not come here. Lance' advice is ok but kind of unrealistic (too expensive) and should be taken with a grain of salt. No offense here. My 2 cents.

07-29-04, 03:03
Dear Asiaphile,

One more thing I forgot to mention in my previous post. You are also a Hypocrite and a Joke to yourself and everyone else! You are just simply Fake man!

You wrote all these posts telling how the poor Vietnamese people are suffering in Vietnam while people like myself bindly burn money away blah blah blah. On the other hand, you proudly proclaimed that you spend your precious time and energy to hunt down young Vietnamese girls who are un-touched by Mongers and fuck the hell out of them for the lowest possible price that your bargaining skills can take you. This is how you want to help the poor in VN? This is your way of doing things so the mafia and the elite officials in VN won't get a piece of your dollar?

On one hand, you are exploiting young innocent Vietnamese girls from the country side of VN for your sexual desires and then have the nerve to feel sorry for the street vendors and the poor through out VN? Get real man!


07-29-04, 08:01
You start out "Dear Asiaphile" and then launch into a personal attack - something I have never done in this or any forum. I have never addressed you personally but I did say something about childish banter. You are on the border line of getting banned from this forum I assure you - just remember this. I am a Senior Member who knows the Moderator Jackson very well and he and I are on the same wave length on all issues in this forum. For some reason you don't seem to notice the majority that have spoken up with intelligence and restraint agree mostly with me and not you - do you hear that. How laughable that you would paint me as an NGO type who should "get the hell out of this forum." Thanks to all those who chimed in on my behalf and hopefully more valuable info will be forthcoming from the vast majority of you guys - minus such rare bad apples baiting for a fight with their useless silly babble.

07-29-04, 08:37
My Dearest Friend, Asiaphile,

I didn't know that YOU are a SENIOR MEMBER here! Wow, how about that? A SENIOR MEMBER, WHO KNOWS THE CREATOR OF THIS FORUM VERY WELL. I guess being a SENIOR MEMBER is like having the same status as a Medical Doctor huh? Or even a Chief Operating Office of some kind for a major corporation. Oh boy, I don't know what I would do if I were to loose my membership here. What would I do? What would I do?

07-29-04, 10:37


Let us all get along together.
If guys want to pay top end prices for skanks, let them.
If guys want to explore the real Vn hinterland and report back here, let them as that is why Attica set up the forum in the first place.

Have a look at the Thai board where Freeler and some other brave souls explore the real Thailand and others stay in little tourist ghettoes. Different strokes for different folks.

Vietnam is a great place and Vn women are nice. Find a nice one. Make love, not war.

Domino the Duck
(on behalf of Mongers for a Kinder and Gentler Vietnam Sex Scene)

07-29-04, 12:41
Dear friends,

Im planning to visit Hanoi from the 4th to the 8th in August and to stay at Hanoi Daewoo hotel. This will be my first time to travel to Vietnam.

Any suggestion how to get a girl at the hotel? Since Ill be working during most of the time. What about massage, which one you recommend that can be followed by HJ?

What about the facilities in this hotel? Should I try the Karaoke private rooms? Is it expensive?

I also want to take some tours around, do you think its a good idea to consider LT that will show me also around? Any suggestion regarding the cost?

Appreciate very much your reply since Ill be traveling early next week


07-29-04, 13:30

I do not wish to contribute to any ad hoc attacks, and I'm not attacking you, but I think your response to Asiaphile is misguided. The fact is that Asiaphile's analysis of the stranglehold that Communist party officials have on the country is correct. If this type of exploitation is offensive to you, then why contribute to the enterprises that they control? Doing so merely perpetuates a totaliratian, nepostistic system.

Trying to live within the "real" Vietnam--whether chasing its women, eating in it's resaurants, patronizing the non-Communist controlled hotels, or anything else--merely helps ensure that the hard-working "unconnected" people who run these establishments, profit from their hard work. This is neither hypocritical nor offensive. What's the problem? Convresely if Asiaphile's insights into the Party oligarchy don't bother you, then feel free to participate in the tourist Vietnam.

One other point, which relates to neither of the above, is that sticking to the sites and attractions associate with the tourist Vietnam means that, in a sense, you'll never leave the West, and never get to really experience the magic of the country.

07-29-04, 17:05
Dear GoodEnough,

Correction my friend! You need to go back and read all the previous posts slowly and carefully because you got it all wrong my friend. It is our dear friend, Asiaphile, who is having some issue with the Commies. I think you are wise enough to realize that WE ARE ALL CONTRIBUTING TO THE ENTERPRISES THAT THE COMMIES CONTROL. It doesn't matter how much money you have or may not have, or how you choose to spend your money while you are in Vietnam; because a portion of every dollar you spent in Vietnam will somehow, someway go into their pockets. So like I said before, if you have a problem with the commies, the corruption, the poor getting poorer while the rich blindly burning their money then DON'T COME TO VIETNAM!

The purpose of WSG Forum is about SEX. This Vietnam Forum is about the SEX INDUSTRY in Vietnam. It is about how to get laid, where to find girls, what are the current hot spots for pickup, what are the different prices that we all paid each time we played, and so on and so on.

Unlike a few members here, each time I travel to Vietnam I always have one clear purpose in mind, and that is to fuck as many girls as I can, pay the price and get the hell out! I don't pretend otherwise.

I will never be in Vietnam for any Humanitarian Mission so the only thing that I care for is SEX.

Good Luck My Friend.

Lance Toronto
07-29-04, 17:24
To everyone,

Sorry this has gotten out of hand. Everyone is right. My posts were simply for first timers to Hanoi, who wanted simple directions to good places, communist controlled or otherwise. Pussy is pussy.

The other Vietnam is wonderful too, and I have found it thru a wonderful young VN girl who I pay well, because of the conditions communisim puts these people in, as a friend of mine tells me. Both Trang and I benifit from our relationship. What she does when I'm not in VN, is her business, and the same with me.

We enjoy each other and I enjoy attempting to provide the money for her to hopefully one day do something else if she so chooses.

The bottom line:

Go to VN, enjoy it now, it is changing very quickly, and regardless of how much or how little any of us spend in VN it will change unfortunately for the worse. I love the people of VN, they live in a much simpler world than I do, and that is why I spend time there. If you want to escape the insanity of the Western World, there are few places left, and they are vanishing fast.


EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to remove the multiple periods throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please consider using a comma to separate the phrases in your sentences and a single period at the end of each sentence. Thanks!

08-15-04, 12:28

It seems that there is always a row on this thread. Not really wanting to point fingers, Asiaphile always seems to be in the middle of it, flaming guys for paying too much, complaining about the corrupt political system, and reminding us of the GDP and income levels of the Vietnamese. I reckon the politics and demographics should be left off this forum since the purpose is to share info about how to get laid. As long as a monger does not pay more than the going rate at a particular establishment and jack up prices unecessarily, I don't care. That is his business. I can choose to, or not to, patronize that establishment if I think it is too expensive. Let's face it, some places are more expensive for pussy than others for whatever reason.

The only useful contribution in the last three pages of this thread is the post about the closing of Apocalypse Now. Although the girls there were a bit old for my taste, it was still an excellent spot to find actiion, reasonably priced. I prefer the New Century for the same money.

I am planning a trip to Hanoi soon and wanted to check if there were any new developments. I did not appreciate having to read through three pages of nonsense to find out.

Just my POV....


El Frances
08-18-04, 11:01
I have seen a long debate in this forum about prices of pussy in vietnam, and I think both concerned contributors are right and wrong. I am more concerned about saigon, but it seems this debate happens now in this thread.

First, although very cheap pussy can be found in vietnam, every place has a kind of standard price corresponding to a specific service. For example, you go to apocalypse in saigon, it is easy to find, you can have a nice evening dancing with a girl talking some english. The girl has to spend on drinks in order to be able to work there, she also has to give money to mafia. So you give her 50 $, and that's worth it. You can find cheaper, but it may not be so easy, you have to spend some time, you don't enjoy a nice evening except fucking, the girl doesn't speak english, etc...

Second, why spend more than the standard price for a given place ? If the standard price is 50, why pay 100? I have been many times in places like apocalypse, the girls knows me from sight, or I let them know that I've been there many times. Most of the time we don't even talk about money, they go with me, I give them 50$ and that's it! Overpaying is like going to a restaurant and you have the same meal as your neighbour but you pay a higher price!

Finally, about girl's quality. My experience is that you pay for the place and the bundle of service you get, not for the beauty of the girls. I don't pick up my girls in places like apocalypse, lodge disco, sailing club, etc... unless it is a mere question of convenience, simply because I find the girls not attractive enough.
If you want a fresh sweet 18-20 year old girl that does not drink and smoke, with soft skin, firm tits, and tight pussy, you have to find other places, where vietnamese go, and it is much cheaper.

In asia, my experience is that the asian people always get the best choice. So either you go to top places for japanese or taiwanese people, and you pay 200$ or more for a girl, Or you go to places for vietnamese men and you pay 10-30$.

Cheers !

08-19-04, 19:07

Your posts are very good and mature. A solid experience is here definitely.

I see the same problem in many other countries where many Western tourists, mainly from USA start going. Most of these guys are constantly told at home, at school etc that each of them is the center of Universe, and the smartest, the most good-looking and most intellegent that nature was able to create.
When you try to explain them that by overpaying for everything they destroy local markets (including for themselves in a near future) they got very irritated and angry and reply that what they are paying is still much cheaper than they would pay for similar goods or services in USA.
If you dare to remind them that they are not in USA and to pay $10 for something that can be easily bought for $2 is stupid, they usually begin hating you and accuse of poverty.
It is their nature. They cannot think or act differently.
I`ve been through meeting these young gentlemen many times.
You can do nothing about it.
I can do nothing about it.
Only mayby to stop sharing info about these very few really beautiful places that still remain in the world.
Otherwise they read, they go, they litter,they destroy, they leave.
You cannot change those people. Try to avoid them.

08-19-04, 20:41
I get so sick of getting into the forums, only to read the posts that are full of arguments and irrelevant information. It seems to be more so in the Vietnam forum which I like to read since I'm a Vietkieu.

Although I have only posted a few posts, and not a senior member (mostly because I try to stay on topic), with due respects to all, I'd like to share my thoughts.

What Asiaphile says are good and accurate observations, I myself have lived and worked in SEA for many years. I don't always agree with him though, there are times when you don't mind spending a few dollars more. Also, for newbies not knowing what they're doing, perhaps we can cut them some slacks. Nevertheless, I appreciate the shared information, this is why I visit the forum.

What I get sick of most of all, is the crude tone of some of the responses. I hate people who launch into a personal attack just because they cannot articulate their point of view in a civilised and mature manner. When I see those names, I simply skip over and do not waste my time.

08-19-04, 21:42
All I can say is that there are some members in this forum who are UTTERLY STUPID, and I am surprised that they would have such a narrow-minded head for human beings.

WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT! We all have different backgrounds. We all have different TASTE in women. We all have different TASTE in what we drink and what we eat in Vietnam. We all have different IDEAS as how we would like to spend our time in Vietnam. We all have different SEXUAL FANTASIES that we want to do in Vietnam. We all have different BANK ACCOUNTS. We all have different STYLE in the way we dress, the way we speak and the way we carry ourselves in public. We all have different CLASS as how we want to have a good time in Vietnam. So the bottom line is that: WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT!

DO NOT DICTATE ON WHAT AND HOW EVERYONE SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT ACT IN VIETNAM. That is simply WRONG! If you don't understand this point, then I suggest for you to read my SECOND paragragh again, slowly and carefully.

I personally would never pickup a prostitute off the street in Vietnam or go to some remote country-side in Vietanm for some real cheap actions. I would never do that because that is my PERSONAL TASTE and CHOICE! If you rather enjoy eating your food off the street-vendors, that's good for you. If you prefer spending your time learning the Vietnamese culture and its people, then that's up to you. If you are into doing those things and it makes you happy then it's good for you! I have no problem with that. JUST DON'T CALL ANYONE STUPID AND ARROGANT FOR NOT DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Seriously, what THE HELL are you thinking? You think that when all of us Mongers go to Vietnam, we should all go to the same place, fuck the same girl, eat the same food, drink the same drinks, pay the same price, and call that a good time? Is that how you want the world to be so that your $2 piece of pussy would stay the same price forever?

08-19-04, 22:55
Back to basics,please. I understand the quality of the girls at the
Hanoi Hotel club is good. If you hook up thru the mama-san, is
there any problem bringing the girl up to a room in the hotel? Are
there any other recommendations for hotels in Hanoi that house a club/karaoke bar where you can procure someone for LT/ST &
move on up to a room without any hassles?

Nick Belane
08-20-04, 03:20

The quality at the Hanoi Hotel can be either stellar or horrible. On any given night there are between 100-150 girls working, so what you are really dealing with is the law of averages. But the problem with that place is that it is so feckin' dark. What looks good one minute will scare you half to death the moment you get step into proper lighting.

Typically, groups of about 10 girls will be brought in front of you and a flashlight will be shone on each girl. The process is repeated until you find something you like. Trouble is, flashlighting is very unflattering and you still can't always be sure of what you are getting until you step outside.

But is there any problem taking a girl up to your room? Absolutely not. Everything is possible and for the most part is hassle-free.

Another place to check is the Fortuna Hotel down the street from the Hanoi. From a sheer volume standpoint, the Fortuna outweighs everywhere else with about 280 girls working there. Once again, it is feckin' dark in there and so the law of averages applies but everything is hassle-free.

One more is Club Q at the Daewoo Hotel. Judging from my last visit there about three weeks ago, I would say that on the whole the girls at this place are better looking than the abovementioned but the volume is a bit less. I don't think they ever have more than 100 girls working at any one time. A big plus here is that the lighting isn't bad.

08-22-04, 04:49

I stay at the Daewoo Hotel. 5-Star for around $60 and completely girl friendly. There is a nightclub in the hotel with top quality talent. I paid $100 for LT (Asiaphile, please do not flame me!) with a real stunner. I think ST was $50. Expensive, but convenient.


08-22-04, 04:58

I think price is often dependent on the environment in which P4P is available. The nicer the place, the higher the price. I picked up at SW in China last night and paid her only US$6 for a BBBJ. We chatted a bit about the subject. She said it was funny that I paid her $6 off the street, but I would have paid her $85 out of a KTV bar in a major hotel.

In Vietnam, I have paid as low as US$2 ST in Vung Tau to the $100 LT reported in my last post.

Just my POV.


08-24-04, 07:44

How do you get a rate of US$60 at the Daewoo, I have stayed there earlier and paid around US$85. Is there a website where I can book the hotel? Will be in Hanoi around the 10th September, for 3 nights.


08-26-04, 10:54

The hotel is booked for me by my supplier in Hanoi, but I think it is the standard corporate rate. You should have somebody book it for you in Hanoi.


Fred Gold
08-28-04, 00:40

For the first time Im going to Bangkok, Hanoi, Hue and HCMC. I only speak English and am looking for suggestions as to where to find some company who speaks some English. In other places Ive gone into a department type store to shop and if I found one to my liking, Id strike up a conversation and ask if she could help me find some place for dinner and help me sightseeing the next day. I also offer to pay her for her day(s) of lost wages at the store. Is this a good approach also in Thailand and VN?

Where else can I have a good chance of finding an English speaking friend?

Thx Fred

On The Road
09-04-04, 19:33
Travel Report


Hotel: Hotel Elegant - 89 Trieu Viet Vuong Str.
Price: US$ 20 + Tax. Breakfast included.
GF?: Not checked, but I suspect that a good tip to the night doorman can make the deal.
Notes: Not bad, but not in the tourist area. Elegant II Hotel was full so I tried this one.

Day 1:
Went to Thn Gia Foot Massage, 18 Trieu Viet Vuong Str. Traditional massage only, no action at all. Two explicit cat ba nam near.
Went to New Century Disco, packed with pros. Me and my friend were immediately followed by two Viet girl, not bad both 7-8 in scale, forgot their names.
We make the deal for US$40 ST. I had a good experience, went to an unknown Mini Hotel (she knew it) and payed US$10 for the Hotel.
My friend told me he had a not so good experience, very rushed service.

Day 2: Went to Polite Bar & GC Bar in Pho Baok Manh. Both good for drinking but not good for mongering. Spotted no action at all.

Day 3: Went to a Cat Toc Nam on 101 Bui Thi Xuan rd., very close to our hotel.
No massage at all, but a very good BBBJCIM by a very beautiful 18yo girl. I completely undressed her during the bj. No english spoken at all.
Gave her 200.000 VND massage included, she look very happy 'bout the tip. Offered a second round, but I declined. (really don't know why!)
Went to the Funky Monkey Bar. Good music, but no action at all.
Tried to find the Apocalypse now, went there walking but it was closed and we felt not so safe in that area. We went away not asking.

It follows in the VIETNAM / OTHER AREAS section.

09-10-04, 04:33
I am currently in Hanoi. This is my first trip here and I just got here yesterday morning. I had booked a hotel on the Internet for $24/night and to have a driver pick me up at the airport. but, once arrived, I decided to trek off on my own. I meet up with a fellow traveller coming to Hanoi to visit his mom and his family is picking him up at the airport. I hiched a ride with him for free and was able to asked them to find a cheap central hotel for me! I found that it helps tons to be able to speak the local language. All of my classes paid off! They found a girl friendly hotel in the old district for $10/night! I found that Hanoi has a weird open/close policy against prostitution. It is not legal but, girls are doing it.
In the morning I went around the city center doing the tourist thing. Hanoi is a small place! As far as the tourist industry go, it is not very developed. You need to either be a bit experience traveler or to speak the lingo to be able to make it here. after sampling most of the local food, I went got got myself a sim chip for my phone. They use GSM here and you will need to have your phone unlock if it is from the major carrier in the States to use it here. The price is about 400.000 dong for the sim card but, that gives you 300.000 dong of air time.
After that I got a xe-om to take me around. I negotiated with him for 150.000 dong for as long as I want. Fist we went to the Asia hotel massage since he told me that the girls there are very pretty. This turns out to be a complete wasted of time. I went up to the 7th floor and pay the desk 50.000 for the girl and room for one hour. Got a decent looking 5-6 looking girl. She gives an average massage and a rush hand-job. I was not into it so I did not finish. I went back to my driver and told him that I am not happy. This was around 11PM. I told him to take me to hotel Daewoo but, he does not know about the club there. He told me that the club might be closed already since it is late. He suggested that we go to Quang Ba instead.
Having heard mixed review about this, I am not sure if I wanted to go but, he convinced me to give it a try. I told him to drive me around Dong Ho to see if there are any good looking girls walking around. I did not see any given that it is so late so, I decided to continue on to Quang Ba. We got there and found that all of the houses are closed except for a massage place next to the Quang Ba hotel. He is at lost at this time so he decided to go ask. The girls in the massage place point him to a house across the street w/o any outside sign. There were a guy standing outside of the house smoking. He went up and talk for a few minute then wave me over telling me that there are girls inside. I went in and saw there there are 3 guys inside. They were strung out on Weeds.
They told me that there are a few girls inside. I did not have a good vibe about it but, I decided to asked any way. I told him that I do not want to stay there but, I want to take a girl back to my hotel over-night. He told me that this is not possible. They do not allow the girls to leave the house. I left and told the drive I have outside that I don't want to stay here since I am not confortable with this place. At this time we spied two girls on a motobike coming up to the house. One took off into the house. The other was parking the bike. She had a nice body and was around 23-24. She first told me of a hotel near there here we can spend the night. I decline telling her that I have already paid for my room at my hotel and do not want to pay again for another.
My drive went off and to talk with her for a while. After some amount of talking she agreed to come back with me to my place. We settled on 700.000 for the night. I took her asided and asked her how much does she get and how much is she splitting with my driver. She told me 500.00 for her and 200.00 for him. I took her back to my hotel to find that the place was shutter shut tight! I had to bang on the shutters to get it open. I told the receptionist that this is my girl friend and she needs to park her bike inside. He nodded his head w/o saying anything. He was half asleeped!
I went back out, give my driver 300.000, 200.00 the girl promised and 100.000 for my trip. I told him to get pick up for me some beer, juice and water while I took the girl upstair to my room. About 15min later he came back with the drinks. I paid him 50.000 for it and he told me to save the bottles because he will need to return it for 10.000 deposit. I told him to meet me tomorrow at 1PM so that he can drive around to a few cat-toc places.
After some small talk, I found that the girl name is Dung. She is 24 year old, currently living with 2 other girls and her boy friend near in a single room studio Ho Kiem district for 400.000/month. She is 5feet, 115lbs, and about a 5 on my scale. It was about 1AM when we finished with the small chit chat. I told her to go take a shower and come to bed. At first I declined her offer to shower together but, after she went in I thought better of it and went in too so that I can check out her body. She has a petite body without and strecth mark. I comment on this and asked her if she has any kids. She told me that she was pregnant 5 times and has a 2 year old son. Her family lives in a village 150KM from Hanoi and her mom is currently taking care of her son. She goes back once a month to give her mom money for living.
We went to bed and started on missionary style. I found that she was so tight that I had to spend 30min working my way in. I wanted to change possitions but seeing that she was moaning so much, I didn't. We went at this until I amost came. I pulled out and tried to make her swallow but, she kept her mouth shut and keep pushing me away. So, I came on her chest.
As we lay there, I idly finger her pussy while I rest. After about 15 minutes of this, she started to hump my fingers. This caused me to have a hard-on again! I decided to stretch one of her leg up and unter her ass. She did not know that I was confused and did not know to stop me until it was too late. When I was completely in, she whimper some and tried to get away. But, I held on, telling her that she did not want to swallow so, I had to go in the back way and that I would only stop if she agree to swallow. She would not. So, I went at her ass for 10min while she try her best to get away. She was finally above to pushed me completely out and cover her ass with her hands. So, I decided turn her around to shove it back into her pussy while fingering her ass. When I almost came, I tried to shove it in her mouth but, she would not open.
So, I ended up splatter her face instead.
After I finished, we shared a beer and chat a little more. I got her mobile phone number and asked her about her girl friend I saw came to Quang Ba with her. She told me that her friend is 20 and prettier than she is. I told her to bring her friend over tomorrow night and I'll give her 200.000 referal fee and her friend 500.000. She agreed. It was about 4Am at this time, I was dead tired having just got in on the flight at 10AM. So, we went to sleep. I just woke up a few hours ago, got my break fast and wanted to delivered this for your enjoyment.
I'll keep you posted about tonight once it is over. Saturaday and Sunday, I planned to head to Ha Long then maybe Do Son. It is both scary and exciting to go solo here.

09-10-04, 11:11
OK. Since this forum seemed a bit dead, I can't resist another report before I head off to dinner. I wanted to go to one of the big club inside 1 of the 3 major hotels but, I never got a chance to. Just came back from checking out two cat-toc places. I found out that there are many legit cat-toc places around town. Most will have the door wide open and actual people inside getting a hair cut. I called the same xe-om guy I had earlier and we drove around town searching for cat-toc places. We found the following which you guys can use to look 1. the places usually have closed glass door. 2. the places usually says cat-toc tam-hoi goi-dao. Directly inside the door there are no customer but, 3 to 4 girls sitting around. Pick the one you want and tell her you want to go to the back on the bed. I found a couple of places on Phan the Hung and Pham Thi Xuan. I walked in to both and decided to pick a tall light skin girl from the place in Phan The Hung.
She took me to the back and started undressed me and wash me with a wet towel. I tried to take her clothes off but, she would not go for it. She kiss all over my body then started to give me a BBBJ. While her head was down, I reach around her back and un-snap her bras. She complains a but, I told her that her top is still on so, she stop complaining. She went at it lightly for about 30min. Everytime I am near to finish and started to push her head deeper, she would choke and stop. This went on for about 15 more minutes and I lost interested. Sensing this she asked if she can bring in another girl. This perk my interest even more so, I accepted. She went out and came back shortly. I asked her who did she picked. She told me that she picked a stronger and fatter girl to help out. I jokingly told her that she is doing this because she is lazy. But, I accept anyway. She started to work on my upper half while her friend take over the BBBJ.
Both of them went at this for about 30min. I could not resist anymore and as I near complete, I tried to jam one of the girl head down but, she jerked away. So, I splattered on both of them. After this is done, we talked for a bit they asked if I would take them home after work. I told them that I would think about it but, I'll take their phone number ahead of time. I got dressed and paid the second girl 100.000dong and the first 200.000 dong. All in all, this was not that bad. I had two girls double team for about $20USD for almost 2 hours. I just want to dropped of a quick note before heading off to dinner in case anyone is following this saga. My local number is 091-3578850. I would love to meet over a Hanoi local beer. I have set up another meeting with a local girl just came from the country-side and her room-mate for tonight at 10PM. So, I won't be posting anything else until tomorrow. I had wanted to go to the line up at the major hotel but, it looks as if I have to hold off for another day!


Big Fella
09-16-04, 08:55
Hi everyone,

Great to read some good posts lately.

Zergut, can you be more precise on some of the places you have visited such as street names and street numbers if you still remember.
This will be my first trip to Hanoi so I need more info form you guys out there.

I will arrive in Hanoi on the 12th of October so if anyone would like to have a few drinks with me just let me know.

Travel Guy II
09-17-04, 14:35
Going to Hanoi for first time this weekend. Would appreciate a quick summary of key do's, don'ts, where to go and prices for fun with the ladies. Also, I booked the Win hotel. Anyone know if it is friendly? If anyone will be in Hanoi next week and wants to grab a beer, let me know.


09-21-04, 21:09
Can anyone recommend a girl-friendly small hotel near the Opera Hilton? I'm looking for something clean and less than $25 per night where I can go for S/T when I'm not at the Hilton.

Thank you.


Sun Luck Kid
09-24-04, 23:06
Is there anything like a strip club in Hanoi? If so, what goes on there? Any live sex shows or toy shows?

09-27-04, 17:42
Had brief but pleasant visit to Hanoi last week. Stopped by Hanoi Hotel with friends and found the choice of girls to be terrific, very much better than on prior visits. Agree that lighting was a bit dim in the karaoke room but managed to find a 23 year old beauty who spoke Mandarin and English. Did not take her out that night but arranged to meet the next day at the Daewoo. We had a great session, did some shopping together at the Plaza in downtown Hanoi, had lunch, ice cream, etc. A nice GFE experience.

Total cost was about $70 which included some groceries. Well worth it and now have something to look forward to on subsequent visits.

09-28-04, 15:19
First off, sorry about the late following. I had tons of time during the first few days of my visit until I met a local expert then it was no time to spare at all!

Initially I stayed at the Prince 2 hotel and found that the management there were not very girl friendly. I have booked the room for double but, the manager keeps asking for papers of the girls I brought back! Many of the girls I brought back did not have their papers with them and this brought me endless problems.
Luckily I met up with a very knowledgable local expert and she was able to help me out. She does not speak English but had a friend who translate everything for her over the phone. I had her set me up with a different girl every night of my stay there for a fee of $100.000VD for her and $500.000VD for the girl for all nighter or $350.000 for short time. She also set me up with a hotel about 10 min from the center for $200.000 night or $60.000 short time.
The hotel is the best I stayed at for that price range! It is large by the VN standard and had tons of wood inside and the management hands out free condom on demand. The hotel management would also set me up with as many girls as I wanted but, I did not partake since I had a personal assistant. Each day she would take me around Hanoi showing me around and at night she would have a girl ready for me back at my new hotel.
The first time she sent me a girl, I had to return because she was not my type. After that, the girls where better. Now that I am back in the States, I'll include their photo once I have some times. Since my trip was "managed," I was not able to keep track of the street names.
I told my assistant that my trip was only to meet girls and that I want a sensory overload. So, in the daytime, she would bring me to Quang Ba, to hair-cut places, and even to set me up with her girls for short times. Each of my encounter averaged about $350.000VD or about $23USD. Before my all nighter, she would take me around to eat at the street stands, restaurants, and local hang outs. I averaged about $10USD to $20USD a day for food, depending on how many of her friends I was inviting along. She also took me to New Century, Daewoo, Sofitel, and Hanoi hotel. The clubs in the hotels had tons of girls but none of them would go back with me to my place. I was able to get many phone numbers to call the next day/night but, I did not follow-up since it was too much work. The New Century dance club was nice but, the girls there were too pushy and average look was around 5-8 and I did not see any 9-10.
I be more specific on my next posting. I just got back and a bit swamp with catching up at work. I am planning to be back in Hanoi toward the end of November again. But, this time, I want something different!

10-01-04, 00:06
Just a comment about the Daewoo Hotel. I stayed there 2 years ago. Several of us picked up girls at one of the discos in town and brought them back to the Daewoo. The front desk manager immediately jumped on us as we approached the elevators and demanded a companion charge of around $40 for each of us.

That may have changed since then, but it wasn't entirely girl-friendly as stated in a recent post.

10-03-04, 03:26
Anyone have any experience in the Da Nang resort area?

10-24-04, 09:00

Have to be on stopover in Hanoi this week. Anyone suggestions for cheap GF place?

Thank you


10-24-04, 12:52
Since I am planning a trip to HCMC, I started to go through my old notes and found a few things I thought people might find interesting:

- There's a hotel in the outskirt of town right across from the Long Bien/Chuong Duong bridge NE of Hanoi which is owned by a high ranking officer. It is VERY girl friend and you can rent the place by the hour or over-night. The front desk even provide condom for free but, you have to ask for it. Most of the locals go there with their dates. In a pinch, you can also ask the front desk to get you a girl. There was a guy working there who can speak English the last time I was there in September.

Hotel price: 80,000VND short time, 180,000-200,000VND overnight
girl: 350,000VND short time, 500,000VND overnight

(Hotel) Nam Hai, (Street) Doc Cam, (Area) 27 To, (neighboorhood) Ngoc Lam, (City) Long Bien. Phone: 8730633

- There are also a few *****house in Quan Ba where you can come in, pick a girl, take here to a room for a short time or overnight. I go there early in the day for the best pick. Late at night most of the girls go home to their family. No one there speak English but, I had a translator with me. I would recommend you find a local guide to go with you. Unless you can speak VNmese. There are usually 4-10 girls at each house. The price for the house include the fee for the girl. but, the girls do not get any of it so, you should tip them something.

Hotel price: 120,000VND short time, 350,000VND overnight
girl: I usually give 100,000VND tip at the end

(Hotel) Dam Trau, 9/A12 - Dam Trau, Hai Ba Trung, Ha Noi. Phone: 9841775. Manager: Do Trong or Nguyen Trong Quang

There are also a few cat-toc-nam place I found. Most are on the street "Hoan Hoa Tham" near the "cancer research hospital." I did not copy down the address since I just told the xe-om guy to take me there. There are usually 4-5 girls inside. Most do not speak English but, some do.

House price: 50,000VND
girl: I usually tip from 150,000VND to 350,000VND

One thing that many of you may not know is that you can ask for more than 1 girl here. I had a 3-some at one time for 400,000VND. No full service buy it is still nice to see both girls working on my shaft at the same time.

I also went into the Sofitel, Daewoo, and Horrison clubs and I found that they are expensive and a waste of time. Either there are very few girls and not very pretty or you have to go through the standard fare of paying for a girl to sit with you and pay for the drink just soyou can get a phone number to call her the next day. Unless you have time to burn, I would stay away from that.

That's it from my old file. I'll post a new one after my HCMC trip. Overall, I found Hanoi to be fun but not a place where I would go to more than once. I would rather head off to cat Ba, Halong, or Do Son instead.


10-25-04, 17:07
Hi everyone!

Need some answers from someone who knows VN well. I am going to Hai Duong (about 50km east of Hanoi) in Feb. 2005 to visit some viet friends there. I have been once before but with viet friends from home so no language problems that time. But there will be this time but that will be my problem. Anyway, since I am going to stay with my viet friends living there and I suspect they will be with me most of the time, girls will be hard to find. Or? What is the traditional view on sex among young people in northern VN. Last time I was there it was only for 10 days so I waited till I came back to Thailand but now I will stay for 3-4 weeks. Is it possible for a foreigner to get sex from a young, single "good" girl in north VN without promising a wedding? What is their view? And if that is out of the question, is there a general way to find bar girls or other prostitutes? I mean like a red light in the window or just to ask girls who are out after 10 pm or something. Or is it just to ask someone else? Who is best to ask? I will not ask my friends.


11-03-04, 12:16

I suggest you hook-up with a local monger friend. I was taken to this hotel/resort place about 45 minutes outside of Hanoi on the way back from the golf course with girls available for 20US$, including the room. The girls were very nice and accomodating. I am sure there are similar places near where you will be staying.


11-04-04, 20:54
Thanks OAH,

I will check that out when I get there. Do you remember the name and site of the place? You are playing golf in VN? Any good?


11-19-04, 04:48

I have not checked this thread in awhile. Sorry I did not reply sooner.

Unfortunately, I did not get the name of the place. We just stopped on the way back. One of the guys I was playing golf with knew the place. I've been a member of Kings Valley since the beginning. IMHO, the course is just average. It takes nearly one hour to get out there from Hanoi. They are building another 18 holes there which will be done soon. I reckon the courses in HCMC are better. Vietnam is not yet a golf destination though. Thailand is still a much better place for golf and mongering.


Member #2634
11-30-04, 12:37
Hi fellow mongers,

I am from Bombay India and am coming in to Hanoi for one night on the 18th of December. Staying at the Sheraton. Any leads on how to get laid will be most appreciated. Fellow mongers can also meet up for a drink at the hotel.

12-12-04, 07:04
If I remember correctly, the Sheraton is in the same area as the Quanh Ba brothels. It may even be on the same street. Maybe some of the Hanoi veteran mongers can confirm this. Having said that, I still recommend New Century for better quality at reasonable prices.

Hi fellow mongers,

I am from Bombay India and am coming in to Hanoi for one night on the 18th of December. Staying at the Sheraton. Any leads on how to get laid will be most appreciated. Fellow mongers can also meet up for a drink at the hotel.

Big Bossman
12-12-04, 13:05
I have had a mixed bag od experiences here in Hanoi:

1. Girls will approach on their motor bikes and proposition you for a massage. Costs have been between USD20-30. Though, one somehow stole a $20 bill from me which I did not realize to the next day. Pretty crafty that vixen, usually I'm good with that stuff.

2. They have *great* bodies, dare I say slimmer than the Thai girls I have experienced in the past. And they are truly beautiful, some actually top heavy (strange in asia, right?)

3. Some girls approached me not inside, but rather upon leaving, the bar that is called "Relax Bar". Very attractive, but the one who made advances was a junkie (according to my driver). The reality is not always pretty, and I'm glad I was informed.

4. The ones I did take back, I was plently happy with. They all tell the same story of being school teachers. Go figure.

5. You can see many corners with 3 or 4 girls (accompanied by pimp) on some street corners in the french corner.

6. Moto- drivers seem more than happy to assist in mongering - all you must do is ask and they'll hook you up.

OK, sadly enough off I head back to my home this evening where even the cheapest session in NYC will cost more than a bad session here with a Hanoi ***** who steals my money - and the girl probably won't be as attractive to boot.

Pak Mike
12-13-04, 06:02
Big Bossman,

"2. They have *great* bodies, dare I say slimmer than the Thai girls I have experienced in the past. And they are truly beautiful, some actually top heavy (strange in asia, right?)"

Not so strange, my GF in Ha Noi is 4 ft nothing, around 45 kgs, so she seems busty, but I guess the same bust on a 6 ft European would be "flat". Of course there is a lot of padding used by some ladies, not to mention the triple underwired bras. Amazing pieces of engineering!!

Mark Smith #2
12-29-04, 08:49
There is massage and sauna place in local hotel on other side of the street (going away from lake) of Softiel. $5 for massage, then tip what you want to the girl. Mine was pretty, but quiet. Nice massage, then offer for hj. Told her to strip first...she resisted, but then exposed nice tits, and a great ass (face was uninspiring). Tipped her $5, she asked for more (I guess that what she was asking), so I gave her and extra $1, and she seemed happy enough.

12-30-04, 02:03
Are there any places to go near the Hanoi Hilton?
Does the Hilton offer a massage?

01-17-05, 09:38
I will be in Hanoi from Jan 21 until Feb 20 and would love to meet up with anyone on this board if you guys are around. I might take a couple of side trips outside of Hanoi and eventually down to HCMC. My local number when I get there will be: 0913578850 Give me a call.


02-05-05, 02:11
There is plenty of action just outside the Hilton, many on motor bikes, $20 US, girls friendly and liberal, Hilton girl friendly.
There is a massage parlor accross the Hilton, a two hour massage is $6.00 US.
Thats right six dollars for two hours, I was offered a HJ for $15 more at the end.

Green Gopher
03-10-05, 00:14
Sorry for the delay, I've been back a month now and since Jackson changed the website I was unfamiliar with the layout.

Went to Hanoi to NewCentury, got a few freebie feels upstairs all nights that we went. Never took any home because I was just simply not interested. Its good to sit up there and just let them feel you all around and vice versa. Just buy them a drink and when the girl starts to gets down to business about $ for date, just tell her that it will depend on how much you like her. I'm not into all nighters and I like things done so I can be on my way and enjoy myself without worrying about some girl in my room.

Discovered this by accident: its a Hot Toc place on 32 Hang Buu.
Came in for to just get a nice shampoo and head massage and when they took me up stairs it was apparently obvious what was going on. They had heated lamps to keep us warm. Took clothes off and went directly for some great BBBJ. I asked to flip me over and for a rim job which she did. The girl took her time, roughly 45 min of BBBJ and rim job before i popped BBBJCIM. I gave her 100,000 tip on top of the 40,000 entrance fee. Came back next day had 2 girls give me the treatment. Definitely would recommend.

looks: 6
body: 8
attitude: 8
performance: 10

The massages are not as open as down in HCM but they are there. There is a street 2 streets behind Ngo Gach towards Hoan Kim lake, which has a hotel with massage. Great girls and great price. I went to many massage places in Hanoi and none compared. Sorry I have no idea what the name was. Its a big yellow sign that says "massage"

Very friendly attitude strictly HJ and you can date them afterwards but I opted not to.

Hanoi Guy
04-02-05, 11:45
Want a real hottie knocking at your door in the Hanoi area after 20 minutes? Want to pay the correct price the seasoned guys on WSG told you without the usual bargaining hassle? Mail me at [Email Address deleted by Admin] for more details (sorry I can't put the phone number in WSG)

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending removal of email addresses in the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system to exchange this information. Thanks!

Hanoi Guy
04-02-05, 11:50
Want a real hottie knocking at your door in the Hanoi area after 20 minutes? Want to pay the correct price the seasoned guys on WSG told you without the usual bargaining hassle? Send me a PM for more details (sorry, it's not possible to put the phone number in WSG)

04-11-05, 17:34
Hanoi GAy

You are a sad fucker.

This site is for gathering information, not a billboard for despicable pimps like you.

Go fuck yourself - I am sure no girl will ...

Six Sence
04-24-05, 11:41
Hi Green Gopher,

I can't find the address you gave. Hot Toc place on 32 Hang Buu.

Do you mean "HANG BUN"?

Expatriate Guy
04-26-05, 00:27
I have called Hanoi Guy on two occasions. I am impressed that the girls have been able to come to my room even in girl-unfriendly hotels. The hotel had stopped me from bringing a girl that I had picked up at a pub up to my room citing Vietnam law and hotel policy unless I got another room for the girl...crazy!!! But when I called Hanoi Guy, the girl appeared at my room door in less than 30 minutes. On another occasion, had two girls at the same time. One of them looked alot like my colleague from work, so had a great fantasy banging her. The 3 girls that I tried so far have been 7-8 in looks. Thanks Hanoi Guy.

Si Ma Yi
04-27-05, 11:56
Dear all

I received an offer to work in Vietnam as a store executive, exact location don't know yet. Can anyone tell me is it safe considering the bird flu outbreak happened not long ago? Is it safer in major cities compared to rural areas? How about other factors I should weigh in my consideration? I am a Malaysian, 28 years old. The contract is for 3 years, every 4 months I can come back for a few days. Hope no one flames me for posing a non-mongering question, but I need to think of my personal safety first.

Thank you

Coma Boy
04-27-05, 13:19
Dude, relax, it's safe.

Unless you're planning some voodoo rituals with chicken corpses.

Check out the WHO website, or whatever, if you have concerns.

Si Ma Yi
04-28-05, 08:07

Decided to go Vietnam. Exact location Song Than 2 Industrial Zone, DiAn District, Binh Duong Province. Will bring along a digital camera for everyone's pleasure:D 2967 can we meet up and you teach me the ropes in V?

Coma Boy
04-28-05, 08:30
Actually I am not in Vietnam.

I went to Hanoi for a brief respite from Thailand a couple of weeks ago.

I will definitely return soon, Hanoi is very cool, you'll love it.


04-28-05, 10:52
Song Than is actually 25 kms out of Ho Chi Minh City, eastwards.

Si Ma Yi
04-28-05, 11:38
Thanks ratu. I heard you don't need a license to ride a bike below 50cc. Guess I need to find one for easy travel. Humans are very contradictory, the day before I was undecided if I want to go, but now I can't wait for the day. In actual, I need to go to Muar, Johor for training 2 weeks-1 month period.

Coma Boy
04-28-05, 11:43
Do they make bikes smaller than 50cc?

To be honest, I don't think you need a licence for a motorbike of any size.

If you're worried about your health then riding a motorbike in Nam is a zillion times more likely to kill you than bird flu.

El Frances
04-29-05, 09:50
Member 2967,

I agree with you, it's very dangerous. All the vietnamese people I know have scars from motorcycle accident.

On top of it, remember there is not motorcycle insurance in Vietnam. So if you have an accident with a vietnamese guy, whoever is faulty, guess who will pay for the damage occured to this person and his motorcycle?

05-02-05, 00:17
I read a few days ago that the police in Hanoi swept through upscale bars catering to Westerners and arrested about 100 Viet girls for prostitution. Anybody else familiar with what happened? Is Vietnam in the midst of one of its periodic crackdowns? Enquiring minds want to know.

Blue Jeans
05-02-05, 10:25
There is plenty of action just outside the Hilton, many on motor bikes, $20 US, girls friendly and liberal, Hilton girl friendly.

There is a massage parlor accross the Hilton, a two hour massage is $6.00 US.
Thats right six dollars for two hours, I was offered a HJ for $15 more at the end

Dear John,

Will be going to Hanoi in 2 week times for business trip, its my 1st time in vietnam... & will be staying in Hilton. You mentioned above on the motor bikes girls... How do i approach them? How much its cost for overnight?

Appreciate your prompt reply.

05-12-05, 23:29
Report continuing from Ho Chi Minh City.

Hanoi is totally different from HCMC. No girlie bars (a plus in my opinion, given the low level in HCMC). Somebody told me about street action about the Hilton, did not try. I tried Cat Toc instead. These are barber shops, usually packed together with karaoke bars in some streets, and totally absent in the rest of town. Tried a street called Bui Thi Xuan, in southern Hanoi. At least 6 karaoke and as many Cat Toc. I sat in a "normal" bar to see the flow. Saw many ladies coming out of karaoke to have lunch or go home: not a single one worth a look. Been in 3 Cat Toc, always found 3 or 4 girls waiting, usually one is ok. Prices from 200.000 to 300.000 with or without tip, with or without condom, with or without fuck, well it is a real mess, every place has different rules (every girl has different rules...). If no fuck, sometimes you can touch, sometimes not, it is a bit of an adventure. Coming from Thailand, however, quality is a bit disappointing and everything quite badly organized, not mentioning the fact that usually you cannot see the ladies from outside, you have to walk in.

Disco scene: not tested, I do not like discos, but the bellboy said it is worth a look, well good luck to you all. Follows in Other areas section.

Hotel: Pacific. New, clean, good staff, free ADSL in room if you have a laptop! Paid 22 usd per night including excellent breakfast, but again no windows in my room: Vietnam hotels are not for claustrophobics!

Follows in Vietnam, Other Areas section.

05-13-05, 04:13

Recently spent a couple days in Hanoi prior to a trip to Sapa and several days in Bac Ha.

I rang up HanoiGuy and about 30 minutes later a beauty arrived at my door at the Horison. She was great and it was the most effortless lay I have ever had in Hanoi.

Thanks HanoiGuy.


Blue Jeans
05-25-05, 14:59
Was my 1st trip to Hanoi. It's was a great to visit. I must say..
Some girls on their motobike was hot.

For 1st timers, you may want to visit pub like 17 saloon-live band concept and club like Fifty Fity-where they play house music. And of coz New Century Disco where you can find some girls standing beside the bar counter. Just have some eyes contact with them. They will come over. Overnite is about 50 till 60 USD pending your negotitation skills

Called up hanoi guys to arrange for an overnight.

The girl appears at the lobby was great. However, she didnt bring her ID along. Didnt manged to get her into the room.

Lesson to be learn. If you're staying in a 5 star hotel... make sure the girl bring along a ID.

Thank Hanoi Guys for arrangement. Maybe next times then.

Asia Rocks
05-28-05, 06:38
Hi Gents,

First post, but twenty years in Asia and look forward to contributing.

Does anyone have insight on what is going on in Hanoi? Karaoke bars are under siege, not that I'm big on Karaoke, but understand there have also been busts in clubs.

I've been to HCMC a few times over the last couple of months though and seems business as usual.


Asia Rocks
05-28-05, 18:14
Further to my earlier posting, I called Hanoi Guy because I really did not want to be out and about figuring all of this out. Inside of 30 minutes a Hanoi Hottie arrived at my door and she truly was. Price was as advertised, $30, although I topped it up.

On balance, I think Hanoi Guy provides incredible value for those not dead set on saving $10 and spending the time to do that. Just my POV.


Run Mann
05-29-05, 01:23
If there is a crackdown going on, I may be missing it. The girls are all still out, but my hotel did refuse to allow a girl to come to my room in the day time, said the Police were checking, but last night I got one in with no problem. It appears that the hotel policy (whatever it is in regards to this) depends on who is on duty.

The New Century Disco have girls galore standing around, I always get the one I don't want to try to cling on to me initially, you don't even have to approach them, they come right up to you. I'll post some of my adventures later, too tired right now, so I'm off to bed. It's raining in Hanoi right now, but still humid as hell.

05-29-05, 15:33
Another amusing tale albeit that the chicken had been fed too much !!

Was on a visit to a supplier recently and had to go into the provinces - about 150Km from Hanoi and a short hop from the border. Anyway in the course of our discussions our hosts decided to offer a gift to us to seal the deal and that saw a knock on the door in the middle of the night. Now this was supposedly courtesy of the local tv station - which under normal circumstances would have been interesting.

All that can be said is that she laid back and took it for Vietnam but with the passion of a wet slab. Perhaps being a gweilo (White man to the non-Asian crew) was the main event but it was akin to stuffing a banana up an exhaust pipe and humping that.

Needless to say the next morning when the crew turned up we all said what a night it had been and very enjoyable - why ruin a good relationship for the sake of a poor lay - you never know hte next trip may offer better fruit !!

Run Mann
05-30-05, 04:02
Tried the Restaurant and Karaoke club at SO 70 NGUYEN TRUONG TO. Probably the most expensive session in Hanoi by local standards. I was led into the Karaoke room and had a choice of about 8 girls to choose from. All average,but one was was about a 7, choose her, she ate like a chimp, they have a basket full with goodies (Chips, cookies, candy) on the table, and she just gorged herself. All the while my hands are exploring her body, finally figured out that I would have to pay for the stuff she's hogging down, so I sent for the manager, negotiated to take the girl out, the stuff from the basket on the table she ate along with the drinks came to about $24.00, she wanted $40.00 because she said she was new still fresh.

She did look refreshing and the deal was for her to come to my hotel in an hour's time, either she didn't show up or they didn't let her in so I left my room and got massage with extras from the Cat Toc down the road from the Hotel.

Personally think if the other Karaoke's are similar and they probably are then they may be over rated and surely overpriced, but I had to try one. You can get much better and cheaper results from the streets or even the resident agent provider on this board who has a pretty good selection.

Run Mann
05-31-05, 11:17
Big shout out to the Dong Do Hotel located at 146 Giang Vo Str, they provide excellent services at a very reasonable rate and to top it off, they have a Massage Joint upstairs, $6.00 for 1.5 hours, got serviced from this absolutely Gorgeous Princess, who started with a hand job about 45 mins into the session. I motion to her to use her mouth, but she said she couldn't because of the Manager and Police so after some playing around I stopped her, I mean why go for a HJ when ready mouths are easily available else where. I would say this Massage Shop tops the one across from the Hilton in terms of price and quality.

I also discovered that its cheaper to book directly with some hotels when coming over here as opposed to going through some travel services. The Heritage Hotel charges $15.00 per night but my poor buddy paid $40.00 per night through wired destination, although the Heritage is on the low end in terms of quality and appearance in my view and it listed as a three star hotel. Phone number for the Heritage is 8351414 and to book rooms you can also use http://www.asiatravel.com/vietnam.html but as I said its may be cheaper to call the hotel directly.

The Hanoi Hotel is also another excellent upscale hotel and you can book through their web site. Wish I knew all this stuff before I cam over here. The website for the Hanoi Hotel (5 Star) is http://www.hanoihotel.com.vn/

Two of my favorite places to eat are the Aladin Cafe near the Dong Do Hotel. Excellent food, imagine a full course meal and dessert for $8.00, I'm with this, the other place is Pepperonis Pizza and Cafe and they have locations all over in including HCMC, but there's this cute waitress that works there that I'm working on, Oh! Is she a lovely one?

Run Mann
06-01-05, 03:44
couple of interesting stories. be careful out there and have a little extra pocket in case you need to bribe or post your bail.

hanoi police bust korean-run prostitution ring
tue may 31, 2005 4:00 am bst

hanoi (reuters) - hanoi police have detained a south korean accused of running a prostitution ring catering to south korean businessmen and tourists, state media reported on tuesday.

the 46-year-old man was detained as he boarded a flight to seoul on monday for questioning about sex trade at a karaoke lounge he owns in the capital, the hanoi police-run an ninh thu do reported.

police detained at least 50 women on saturday in a crackdown on rampant prostitution, just a few days after the government ordered "social evils" such as commercial sex and drugs stamped out and suspended the issue of new licences for bars and clubs.

prostitution is illegal but widespread in vietnam, where personal income has been rising as the communist government liberalises the economy.

this week police said they sent a singer/actress to a re-education camp on evidence she was involved in a high-class call girl ring charging $500 to $1,000.

and this :o

hanoi police have uncovered a prostitution ring which mainly served foreign clients at hotels around the city, according to the authorities.
forty-seven girls were arrested when investigators raided the heritage, bao son, and thuy quynh hotels part of the ring may 28.

the ring leader is a woman called nguyen thi thu huong living in hanoi who has selected girls from other cities and provinces to work for her ring.

and this :rolleyes:

hanoi busts biggest ecstasy den, 206 arrested

more than 100 policemen shut down a huge ecstasy ring at a bar in capital hanoi city june 1, arresting 206 people including the bar managers.
police raided the 300-square-meter bar on bui thi xuan street in hai ba trung district early wednesday morning, confirep001ing nine pills, two packets of drug-related medicine and large quantities of liquids and tools used to mix drugs.

policemen also temporarily seized 82 motorbikes, four cars, wine cups and beer glasses for further investigation as well as documents and music equipment.

thirty of the 206 people tested positive for drugs in their [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) tests.

this is the seventh and biggest ecstasy den discovered in hanoi in the past month.

and finally this :rolleyes:

hanoi police will conduct a general inspection of all night clubs, karaoke bars and hotels in the capital city to uncover any illegal activities like prostitution or drug use, said a senior officer.
the hanoi police department is determined to carry out the inspection campaign following a recent drug bust at huong xuan karaoke bar.

ten people allegedly involved in the bars illegal drug activities have been arrested for further investigation, said police

Asia Rocks
06-06-05, 14:05
I visit Hanoi fairly regularly and stay at Metropole for business reasons and my secretary's force of habit. The massage at Metropole is definitely G-rated and in-room massages are not possible for male guests. Interestingly, though, one time when my wife accompanied me, she was able to arrange one. As the little darling arrived, I lusted over her and the lost opportunity before extinguishing same in the Met Pub happy hour. Bride later reported the massage was not so good, but I know it would have been if I was the massagee.

Anyway, given the additional attention our hobby is getting from Hanoi LE and wanting to avoid the obvious and perhaps targeted locations, not to mention again Met Rules, I wondered are there decent hotels in Hanoi where a R rated massage might be arranged (assume X is out of the question) by booking into their "Health Club" even if you are not a hotel occupant? Anyone with any experience on walk-in options?

Thanks guys,

Cheers, AR

Hanoi Guy
06-08-05, 04:04
Want a real hottie knocking at your door in the Hanoi area after 20 minutes? Want to pay the correct price the seasoned guys on WSG told you without the usual bargaining hassle? Send me a PM for more details (sorry, it's not possible to put the phone number in WSG)

Run Mann
06-08-05, 13:46
Hanoi Guy has some quality girls but some hotels are not allowing you to bring in any unregistered guest. This is the result of the recent bust/crackdown. I had problems bringing in two girls lately to my room and had to go to a cheap (er) hotel to complete the deed.

Want a real hottie knocking at your door in the Hanoi area after 20 minutes? Want to pay the correct price the seasoned guys on WSG told you without the usual bargaining hassle? Send me a PM for more details (sorry, it's not possible to put the phone number in WSG)

Blue Jeans
06-09-05, 13:14
Hanoi Guy has some quality girls but some hotels are not allowing you to bring in any unregistered guest. This is the result of the recent bust/crackdown. I had problems bringing in two girls lately to my room and had to go to a cheap (er) hotel to complete the deed.Totall agreed... I exprience it when i was staying in Hotel, the hotel management required an I.D. Card of the girls as they need to keep it with them incase the police is doing their routine check.

The hotel guest (who rented the hotel room) is required to acknowedge a form. The hotel front desk is very sharp & security is tight. No way to out run them

However, Hanoi Guy contact was great. It's was not bad. I called by the front desk officer to bring the girl up to my room.

Well, maybe next time then.

Hanoi Guy
06-09-05, 14:40
No tree ever grows to the sky. There has been many crackdowns in the past and there will be many more in the future. Yet, none has ever lasted more than 2 or 3 weeks. The reason is simple: crackdowns are ordered by the top commies in power (the virtuous ones????), but they are not in the interest of local cops. You know why, unlike Japan or Hongkong, there's almost no organized crime in VN? Because the biggest gang is called "the cop boys". So enjoy!

PS. usually, when news about a crackdown gets to you, it's already at its end.

Hanoi Guy
06-11-05, 06:26
The truth about crackdowns is that they don't last forever. There have been many in the past and there will be many in the future. Ordered by the top commies in power, they are not in the interest of local cops. The reason why there is, unlike Hongkong or Japan, almost no orgranized crime in VN is that the biggest gang is called "the cop boys". Usually, when news about a crackdown gets to everyone, including foreign tourists, the event itself is near its end. Personally, I have never seen a crackdown that lasts longer than 2, 3 weeks. So enjoy life as usual!

Run Mann
06-11-05, 14:28
you very well may be right, but no one can afford to get busted for prostitution in your own country much less someone else's at any time. you certainly dont want to be convicted and have your name placed on some international watch list for prostitution.

some of this stuff may also be driven by the good ole usa list of countries that aren't doing enough to combat prostitution and [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) (although vietnam was not on the list and this crackdown started before that list was released). some countries are bending over to show the u.s and the world that they're not a haven for "johns" and [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908). whatever the reason, all mongers should proceed with extreme caution at all times. the cops in vietnam sure seem serious about this crackdown to me, just look at some of the many crackdown stories from this vietnam website, http://thanhniennews.com/society/?catid=3&newsid=7146

i'm keeping a close watch on the outcome of the trial of the south korean man being tried for organizing prostitution. the cops certainly have my attention with this crackdown. i won't stop mongering, but i'm operating at deliberate speed, and i hope you're right in saying the crackdown is almost over.

the truth about crackdowns is that they don't last forever. there have been many in the past and there will be many in the future. ordered by the top commies in power, they are not in the interest of local cops. the reason why there is, unlike hongkong or japan, almost no orgranized crime in vn is that the biggest gang is called "the cop boys". usually, when news about a crackdown gets to everyone, including foreign tourists, the event itself is near its end. personally, i have never seen a crackdown that lasts longer than 2, 3 weeks. so enjoy life as usual!

Asia Rocks
06-11-05, 17:30
Totally agree with Run Mann. The USA pressure is exascerbated by VN's WTO aspirations and need for US support. Tried a MP tonight, Friends Club, located at 5 Dien Bien Phu St., 3/F, where the railroad tracks cross the street. Not bad and far superior to the place across from the Hilton. Shower, sauna, massage (1 hr.) VND60,000, HJ what you negotiate. I gave her $20 and did not get the sense that additional services were available there. A real cutie and fun, I tried and failed (maybe language difficulties) to get her HP number, but I think that could be developed over time.


Member #3409
06-27-05, 09:29
Think this is my first post. Anyway just come back from Hanoi and the crackdown was very noticable. I was staying in the Daewoo and not really being that game to venture too far I just went to Club Q. Quite a number of very nice girls. I choose one and asked her how much to go to the hotel and she said it wasn't possible, too many police (I didn't realise about the crackdown until I came home and read this) which was a pitty. In the Q she was more than happy to wank me, let me finger her and also the occasional quick lick of the cock but that was it. Cost me about $20 on the hotel bill for entertainment, and a $10 tip which was probably too much.

The next time I went back another girl sat down and tried to talk me into going back to my room which I though odd, but didn't bother she was probably one of the ugly ones there. I just spent a good time with the girl from the time before for same price which was good enough, again she wouldn't go to the room because of the police!

Maybe next time, VN women are the prettiest I've ever seen, especialy in their own country.

Asia Rocks
07-01-05, 17:23

Responding to my own earlier inquiry, I was back in Hanoi for a meeting at Sofitel Plaza about a week later, but staying at Metropole. After the meeting, I visited their Fitness Centre and inquired about the possibility of a massage, No problem la. Good massage, HJ finish and telephone number for outcalls which I took advantage of a couple of days ago. Total GFE, FS, finishing doggy on balcony. Gotta love it!



Saigon Sam
07-11-05, 06:58

Responding to my own earlier inquiry, I was back in Hanoi for a meeting at Sofitel Plaza about a week later, but staying at Metropole. After the meeting, I visited their Fitness Centre and inquired about the possibility of a massage, No problem la. Good massage, HJ finish and telephone number for outcalls which I took advantage of a couple of days ago. Total GFE, FS, finishing doggy on balcony. Gotta love it!


ARGood to know Metropole offers this service. I will try it out next time. I was in Hanoi last week too and stayed in the Fortuna Hotel. They have a great health spa there too. On the 25th floor looking over the city. Better still, I was able to call and have the girl brought up to my room. Good massage plus FS!!! Girl was good looking fantastic skin and complection. She also had a great attitude. Was quite expensive bc the hotel charged $25 for the service and gave the girl 1 mil (about $64us). I think it was worth it. Totally no hassles and a good time! Got her number too so next time will not have to pay the $25 to the Hotel!

Does Metropole offer room service?

Asia Rocks
07-17-05, 12:12
Good to know Metropole offers this service. I will try it out next time. I was in Hanoi last week too and stayed in the Fortuna Hotel. They have a great health spa there too. On the 25th floor looking over the city. Better still, I was able to call and have the girl brought up to my room. Good massage plus FS!!! Girl was good looking fantastic skin and complection. She also had a great attitude. Was quite expensive bc the hotel charged $25 for the service and gave the girl 1 mil (about $64us). I think it was worth it. Totally no hassles and a good time! Got her number too so next time will not have to pay the $25 to the Hotel!

Does Metropole offer room service?SS,

Good on you! Just to clarify, the walk-in massage mit HJ was at Sofitel Plaza. Given the behaviour of my masseuse once I got her outside of the hotel a few weeks later, I'm sure FS is doable in the room where massage is available at Sofitel Plaza. They charge $25 in fitness centre and $40 in room.

As for the Metropole, I inquired about room massages about three years ago and was told not possible for male guests. Since then, I've stayed there many times and just left it at that and done my mongering elsewhere.


07-21-05, 19:13
Will arrive at Noi Bai in October and I am going straight to the buses that will take me east on the road to Halong Bay. What is the best way to go from Noi Bai to the buses? How much should that be? Are there any dos and donts when it comes to Noi Bai Airport? I know this is no sex related question but you guys who have some good (or bad) experience could perhaps answer me.


07-23-05, 12:06
The Wolf just arrived in Hanoi but is with a team of colleagues and cannot give the get out the way he wants.... too bad.

Any body could refer to me Hanoi Guy contact number. I guess he may help me.

Many thanks in advance.


08-02-05, 12:15
I am taking a much needed break from Guangzhou life and will be in Hanoi for 4 days. Any suggestions for comfortable, girl friendly reasonably priced hotels to stay in?



Austin Power
08-05-05, 03:58
Hi swedtraveller,

First of all I have never been to Hanoi before, but I already planned a trip in Oct-05 and did get the following info for "HOW to GET FROM AIRPORT to CITY". You have 3 chooice:

1. Meter Taxi will cost you $10 USA to the city.

2. Sinh travel will arrange a private car to pick you up for $14 USD.

3. Vietnam Airline Bus will drop you off at Hanoi's office for $2 usd, then you need to get a local taxi to where you want to go . more than likely will be less than $2.

If you want to go fron Hanoi to Halong, you need a private car. That will cost you.


08-10-05, 17:55
I am taking a much needed break from Guangzhou life and will be in Hanoi for 4 days. Any suggestions for comfortable, girl friendly reasonably priced hotels to stay in?


RamekinIf you got significant answers to your request, I would apreciate if you could forward them to me.

Thanks a lot


08-10-05, 18:11
I am taking a much needed break from Guangzhou life and will be in Hanoi for 4 days. Any suggestions for comfortable, girl friendly reasonably priced hotels to stay in?


RamekinIf you got significant answers to your request, I would apreciate if you could forward them to me.

I could transmit to you what I already gathered on this point.

Thanks a lot,

Dirty Old Man

08-11-05, 11:23
Hi guys, I searched the forum with only a few old posts. I will be likely arriving to Hanoi and staying at the Hilton in a few days. Is the action still going on on the street around the hotel? Any particular area or random on the street?

Any advice woulld be greatly appreciated.

Stinger 100
08-15-05, 15:09
Hey, I remember reading a while back on here that someone had gone off to play golf outside of Hanoi and was then shown a hotel resort on the way back that was full of Viet /Chinese girls. Remember that the guy was vague about exactly where this is. Anybody heard or have any details about this place?

08-17-05, 19:49
Thanks AP. I will take your advice. Does your source tell you if it is ok to take the Vietnam Airline bus even is you are arriving with another airline. I am flying with Thai. I am, whatever option I choose, going to the bus station for buses going east, Ben Xe Gia Lam, will that be I guess. I have some friends in a city called Hai Duong which is on the way to Halong.

Austin Power
08-19-05, 04:29

I got the info from two different tours book "Forbe" and "Lonely Planet". Both books did not mention only available for Vietnam airline customers, I guess it is available for all.


Hanoi Guy
08-19-05, 08:47
It has been a while since I last checked my PM box. Thank you all for writing to me. Unfortunately, I have recently moved to a new business line, so I can no longer arrange services for you guys. Sorry & again, thanks for all the support! BB
PS: This has nothing to do with the crackdown, which, as far as I know, is over.

Run Mann
08-20-05, 03:46
This is really sad news, as someone who used Hanoi Guy's service in the past he always provided me with top notch ladies. Hope someone else can take over for you, in any case thanks and good luck in whatever your new venture is.

It has been a while since I last checked my PM box. Thank you all for writing to me. Unfortunately, I have recently moved to a new business line, so I can no longer arrange services for you guys. Sorry & again, thanks for all the support! BB
PS: This has nothing to do with the crackdown, which, as far as I know, is over.

Asia Rocks
08-21-05, 14:55
It has been a while since I last checked my PM box. Thank you all for writing to me. Unfortunately, I have recently moved to a new business line, so I can no longer arrange services for you guys. Sorry & again, thanks for all the support! BB

PS: This has nothing to do with the crackdown, which, as far as I know, is over.Hanoi Guy,

This is not good news for we mongerers, but I hope a better opportunity for you. I also hope you can pass the baton. Thanks for consistently delivering what you professed to be able to do and my best wishes for your future success.


Blue Jeans
08-21-05, 17:48
It has been a while since I last checked my PM box. Thank you all for writing to me. Unfortunately, I have recently moved to a new business line, so I can no longer arrange services for you guys. Sorry & again, thanks for all the support! BB
PS: This has nothing to do with the crackdown, which, as far as I know, is over.Hey Hanoi Guy,

Sad to heard that. You have been helpful during my last trip to Hanoi.

Anyway, All The Best in your coming career.


Picky Dicky
09-26-05, 07:33
Last time in town was in June, when the crackdown was obiviously still in force. Whether it was the big boss of fortuna, or the karaoke club at Hanoi Hotel, I was not able to get any girl interested to come to my hotel. They all refused as "there are too many police searches" going on.

3 months now, I wonder if the action is back in town. I believe the nightclubs have the best quality of beautiful women; however, what alternatives are there in Hanoi for high quality women? I have been hugely disappointed with the selection offered at most massage parlours (unless there are some really upscale massage/spa spots I'm missing out on). Also, anyone contacts for highquality outcalls to the hotel? Please guide my picky dicky.

Asia Rocks
09-26-05, 12:15
Last time in town was in June, when the crackdown was obiviously still in force. Whether it was the big boss of fortuna, or the karaoke club at Hanoi Hotel, I was not able to get any girl interested to come to my hotel. They all refused as "there are too many police searches" going on.

3 months now, I wonder if the action is back in town. I believe the nightclubs have the best quality of beautiful women; however, what alternatives are there in Hanoi for high quality women? I have been hugely disappointed with the selection offered at most massage parlours (unless there are some really upscale massage/spa spots I'm missing out on). Also, anyone contacts for highquality outcalls to the hotel? Please guide my picky dicky.

Picky Dicky,
RTFF. See the exchange Saigon Sam and I had about hotel fitness centers, but MPs still suck. Last time I was in Hanoi, Clubs seemed more business as usual. Stay away from motobike girls.
Cheers, AR

Picky Dicky
09-28-05, 15:20
Picky Dicky,
RTFF. See the exchange Saigon Sam and I had about hotel fitness centers, but MPs still suck. Last time I was in Hanoi, Clubs seemed more business as usual. Stay away from motobike girls.

Cheers, ARDid the Hanoi Hotel Night club. Biz IS back as usual. Great selection, and was able to bring back to hotel without any hassle. Damage US $21 for the club, US $80 for the girl (overnight). It's preferable to bring back to hotel overnight for multiple bangs, so $100 totally seemed justifiable. She was tall, slim, fair-skinned, young and quite pretty. Picky Dicky's B grade stuff. Look for Number 179 at the club.

10-01-05, 10:24
Hi there,

Just though I'd pluck up the courage to ask a few stupid questions that have probably been asked and answered numerous times before.

Anyway, I'll be in Vietnam next week, my first trip and what like to know where the best places to pick up some suitably hot girls are. I'll be staying in the Melia Hanoi hotel (can I bring girls back here? Will they arrange girls?), so anywhere close to that would be great. On the board there are a few mentions of CAT TOK which I understand to be Barbers shops that dont cater just for haircuts. Sound a bit more realistically priced.

Anyway any advice would be appreciated.

10-20-05, 06:33
This is my third time to Hanoi. I did not go to Vietnam almost 2 years. It made some change. The girl in Fortuna is change too. The price is the same with 2 years. $60 ST and $80 overnight. Most girls just want to ST and very rush.

Feel depressing for Hanoi girl.

Fer Sure
10-27-05, 04:44
Hey Ernie,

Please report back.

The Malia is a fancy hotel!

Also, they have listed 'massage services' on their website.

Look forward to hearing from you.


11-04-05, 10:22
Anybody been here lately?

Can you take the girls back to your room at the Daewoo now?

Last time I went it was the crackdown and none would come to my room.

Is the crackdown over now?

11-16-05, 23:20

I'm headed to Hanoi in Janaury and would like to know of any "guarenteed" guest friendly hotels? This seems to be issue without much info.


Old Guy

11-17-05, 18:37
Police Search for Gary Glitter in Vietnam
Thu Nov 17, 7:56 AM ET
HANOI, Vietnam - Authorities said Thursday they are searching for former British rock star Gary Glitter over his alleged relationship with a Vietnamese teenager.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Dung said officials have confirmed that Glitter, 61, whose real name is Paul Francis Gadd, was residing in a home in southern Vung Tau city and had applied for permanent resident status in Vietnam.

Glitter rose to fame with glam-rock songs in the 1970s, most notably his only U.S. hit, "Rock and Roll Part 2," a largely instrumental song that has been a staple at stadium sporting events for years. Among his other songs hits were "I'm the Leader of the Gang (I Am)" and "Do You Wanna Touch."

Glitter fell from grace in 1999 when he was convicted in Britain of possessing child pornography. He served half of a four-month jail sentence before being released. He later went to Cambodia and was permanently expelled in 2002, though Cambodian officials did not specify his crime or file charges.

Dung said that Glitter had left the house on Nov. 12, and police are seeking his whereabouts.

"At present, relevant authorities Ba Ria Vung Tau province are trying to trace this gentleman, and clarify the relationship between this gentleman and a Vietnamese juvenile," he said.

Dung said authorities have conducted interviews with a 15-year-old girl who they found in the home rented by Glitter.

"If evidence of a (legal) violation is found against Mr. Paul Francis, and especially evidence of sexual child abuse, I believe that very strict legal measures will apply to him," he said.

In Vietnam, the crime of sexually abusing a child can lead to the death penalty.

One Wing Low
11-18-05, 02:31
... for child molestation, as an example for all decadent foreign devils.

meanwhile senior communist party members can freely molest, abuse or even murder anyone in vietnam without any accountability. hanoi's vice-minister of youth was caught [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) a 14 year-old girl in a hanoi hotel last year. nobody in vietnam dares question why this dumb bastard never stood trial and was never accused of any crime.

if one goes into the jungle, one must be prepared to face the jungle's justice...

police search for gary glitter in vietnam
thu nov 17, 7:56 am et
hanoi, vietnam - authorities said thursday they are searching for former british rock star gary glitter over his alleged relationship with a vietnamese teenager.

foreign ministry spokesman le dung said officials have confirmed that glitter, 61, whose real name is paul francis gadd, was residing in a home in southern vung tau city and had applied for permanent resident status in vietnam.

in vietnam, the crime of sexually abusing a child can lead to the death penalty.

11-18-05, 03:32
... for child molestation, as an example for all decadent foreign devils.

meanwhile senior communist party members can freely molest, abuse or even murder anyone in vietnam without any accountability. hanoi's vice-minister of youth was caught [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) a 14 year-old girl in a hanoi hotel last year. nobody in vietnam dares question why this dumb bastard never stood trial and was never accused of any crime.

if one goes into the jungle, one must be prepared to face the jungle's justice...let's also talk about another "dumb bastard"...remember lt. william calley by any chance? ever been exposed to agent orange? iraq, afghanistan, guantanamo, etc., etc. are all examples of civilized behavior, right? talk about 'jungle' and 'jungle's justice'.

11-18-05, 08:59
Please note that the DAEWOO is totally guest unfriendly.

Impossible to bring a guest at the moment.

I'm headed to Hanoi in Janaury and would like to know of any "guarenteed" guest friendly hotels? This seems to be issue without much info.


Old Guy[/QUOTE]

Silly Puppy
11-19-05, 00:29
People like you and me may get death penalty in VN for the same crime. And we will get maximum jail time for the same crime in US. BUT, the top communist party member can get away with couple years in prison OR similarly Michael Jackson (or OJ) is forever a free man. It is difficult to judge, though, what system is fair just based on these extreme cases. However, in Western world everyone is considered innocent until proven otherwise. It is quite opposite that in VN. Which jungle is better?

Co Van My
11-19-05, 01:09
[QUOTE=Pansted00]Please note that the DAEWOO is totally guest unfriendly.
Impossible to bring a guest at the moment.

Policies like this in Vietnan seem to change faster and more capriciously than any place else in Southeast Asia (although Thailand's nightlife regulations are running a close second).
In my past trips to Hanoi, I was always able to bring back girls, both from the Q-Club, which is located on the hotel grounds, and from other places that are not connected with the hotel.

The Q-girls said they had to pay $30 out of their fee to security, but the outside girls seemed to get by without any payment as long as I walked them in and out. Maybe the staff was reluctant to confront anyone in my presence.

Pansted, would you describe exactly what you experienced that leads you to say that the Daewoo is not allowing girls in now?

11-19-05, 08:43
People like you and me may get death penalty in VN for the same crime. And we will get maximum jail time for the same crime in US. BUT, the top communist party member can get away with couple years in prison OR similarly Michael Jackson (or OJ) is forever a free man. It is difficult to judge, though, what system is fair just based on these extreme cases. However, in Western world everyone is considered innocent until proven otherwise. It is quite opposite that in VN. Which jungle is better?Child molestation is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE and should be dealt with accordingly. The govt official in Hanoi (should he be guilty) deserves the same punishment that should be accorded to those who can afford to pay-off parents of a minor because the 'justice' system allows them to BUY the best lawyers. In my humble opinion the world is screwed up as it is because of one 'power' (and its satellite states) believing that their system is better than others. Be as it may, ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL. When the 'Western world' acknowledges that we will all be safer.

To all others: I apologize for responsing to this and the previous message. 'Better than thou' attitudes seem to bring out the worst in me! I will not clutter this board with my responses to issues such as these any more.

Silly Puppy
11-19-05, 21:01
We all know that there is no perfect system, thus, one-size-fits-all system just doesn't work. However, using this as an excuse to continue the existing uncivilized system also doesn't work. So does it sound like there is nothing the current regime can do to improve its system? This particular communist system we are talking about doesn't allow its citizens to participate in its change or modification. The citizens are at the mercy of Communist Party and its members. This is why democracy in Western world even if it is not perfect it is still the best.
Of course I am not here to advocate democracy the way pres Bush is doing. Forcefully applying a system on others is anti-democracy and therefore wrong. A good tool in certain hand can be beneficial or harmful to others. A bad tool will always be harmful.

11-21-05, 09:18
child molestation is totally unacceptable and should be dealt with accordingly. the govt official in hanoi (should he be guilty) deserves the same punishment that should be accorded to those who can afford to pay-off parents of a minor because the 'justice' system allows them to buy the best lawyers. in my humble opinion the world is screwed up as it is because of one 'power' (and its satellite states) believing that their system is better than others. be as it may, one size does not fit all. when the 'western world' acknowledges that we will all be safer.now, let us all pray for justice. u.k. thailand, cambodia, vietnam. next stop, hopefully, hell!

gary glitter held over child sex allegations

john aglionby, south-east asia correspondent

monday november 21, 2005


vietnamese police yesterday questioned the shamed rock star gary glitter for a second day over allegations he had sex with **** girls, following his detention on saturday at ho chi minh airport as he tried to flee to thailand.

glitter, 61, whose real name is paul francis gadd, is being held in the resort city of vung tau, where he has lived since march. he allegedly committed "obscene acts with a minor". detectives confirmed that the singer, who served two months in prison in britain in 1999 after being convicted of paedophilia, is still being held but declined to comment on whether he would be prosecuted.

the authorities decided to hold gadd after questioning a 15-year-old girl they found living in his home last week. the former singer had already fled by then, reportedly with a 14-year-old girl who described him as her husband.

the foreign office confirmed that a briton was being detained in vang tau, 50 miles from ho chi minh, but declined to identify the person. if prosecuted for consensual sex with a minor, gadd could face 12 years in prison.

child protection experts say vietnam is becoming increasingly popular with foreign paedophiles because neither the authorities nor the public have much experience of them.

"it's very easy for children to be exploited because society doesn't know a lot about sex tourism and so doesn't have the vigilance," said le hong loan, unicef's chief child protection expert in vietnam. the police also lacked expertise, she said. "they're not prepared to deal with the issue. they're also very cautious about dealing with foreigners."

paedophiles are moving away from traditional haunts such as pattaya in thailand and phnom penh in cambodia because of greater awareness there, according to christine beddoe of ecpat, a group campaigning to end child prostitution.

gadd was detained in cambodia in 2002 but was never prosecuted. he was forced to leave after an aggressive campaign by women's rights groups

White Monkey
11-21-05, 15:27
On your side Haiphong.

Civilization has many different meanings.....what is more cilivilized a country that eats dog or a country that blantantly murders innocent people in the name of bloody oil.

Communism and Democracy are both historical theories written by outdated philosophers. If either one had the opportunity to run as planned, unihibited by greedy individiuals, then they're as great as sliced bread.

Vietnam has come a long way, and like it or not there are a lot more ways to act free there than in many "Civilized" countries. Walking outside safely after dark for one. "Democracy" does not have a cleaner track record than "communism" it just seems to be on top for now. Both pseudo systems have been historically shoved down the collective throats of the masses (South America to Southwest Asia).

Unfortunately the problems are the same all over the world. Consumerism run rampant, greed, and a lot of poverty. Most of the world is run by an oligarchical corporate system. If we think a particular political, economic or religious system as an evil thing then we should wake up...it it the individuals that are corrupt.

We all know that there is no perfect system, thus, one-size-fits-all system just doesn't work. However, using this as an excuse to continue the existing uncivilized system also doesn't work. So does it sound like there is nothing the current regime can do to improve its system? This particular communist system we are talking about doesn't allow its citizens to participate in its change or modification. The citizens are at the mercy of Communist Party and its members. This is why democracy in Western world even if it is not perfect it is still the best.
Of course I am not here to advocate democracy the way pres Bush is doing. Forcefully applying a system on others is anti-democracy and therefore wrong. A good tool in certain hand can be beneficial or harmful to others. A bad tool will always be harmful.

Silly Puppy
11-21-05, 19:13
Here we go again. This is very naive of you WM. I wonder what level of education you got. It originated in Athens with the Greeces. It is a long and proven progress which has been tested for couple thousand years. And you are right on this: communism (not socialism) is indeed a theory which had never been tested before Karl Marx published his Communist Manifesto in 1848. While democracy is a gradual progress which takes many years to mature, Marx's communism advocated the abolition of property in land, the application of all land rent to public purposes; abolition of all rights of inheritance; abolition of all religions, etc. These daring and never-been-tested-before callings had a deadly consequence and ruined million lives which we all know so well.

"Vietnam has come a long way, and like it or not there are a lot more ways to act free there than in many "Civilized" countries."

This statement which comes from a Westerner is indeed ignorant. "Acting free than many civilized countries" is correct to a minority, the ruling class, and not to the mass.

""Democracy" does not have a cleaner track record than "communism"

Hummm, with your knowledge on these subjects I doubt if you can come up with evidences to support your claims.