The Morality of Prostitution [Archive] - Page 11

Alex Rock

10-15-06, 02:26

PeterPanCan

I think I know what you mean and it would probably be smarter to take several steps back and then only look for what I want. Actually, I think I simply want security and trust. I want a relationship where we are both fully honest. I want the girl/woman to accept I have aside that is a horny sleaze loving monger and I have many other sides to my personality.

I was married to a great woman who frowned on my interest in sex. She’s get pissed if she found me looking at a sexy woman or a man’s magazine. She’d give me conditions and accuse me of “only wanting sex” when in fact I only wanted some sex – now and again. I had security – I knew she was not the type to be unfaithful, but it was sexless and guilt ridden.I don’t want that.
I later got into a relationship with a very selfish woman – but the sex was great. She would love screwing and could come as many as 16 times. She’s sometimes want to have threesomes – but would be crazy jealous if she thought I might want to screw someone behind her back. I didn’t have trust.
When I got into my relationship with the WG, it felt great . . .until I found out she was having sex with clients and earning big money. I was jealous and screwed up, but I felt betrayed and that she hadn’t been honest. That was the main reason I couldn’t stay with her.

I tried to think I’ll find a “regular” nice girl who will make me feel secure and be open. I dated lots of women who are looking for a husband, and even though they are all great women, they seem to be playing games or trying too hard to impress me. Very few seemed to be able to be totally open. I know I could feel secure and they would be faithful, but I probably couldn’t be honest about my interest in sex, or my sexual fantasies.

In comes my WG girlfriend. She is totally honest and tells me everything. She needs security which she will only have when she has enough money to be independent and she’ll only settle down when she knows she doesn’t need to depend on a guy. Even though she sleeps with clients, I feel no threat. I can’t control the fact that I have gown very strong feelings for her. Being able to talk openly, cuddle and have the feeling there are no secrets is great. I want that and I like it. BUT something deep in my primordial self says “it’s not right”. That is my dilemma.

You are right I need to figure out what I want. I think I have but maybe it will take time. Maybe I’m still affected by past relationships

I’m on the edge of thinking WHY NOT settle down with a working girl who gives me honesty and security? I’m curious to see what Sasha and Rubber think.

PeterPanCan, could you settle down with a WG? Have you tried?

Alex Rock

10-15-06, 02:32

Hi, it's good to see another WG in this forum.

Why do you think guys have so much trouble having a girlfriend who is a WG?. I'm curious would you tell your boyfriend what you do? How about your girlfriends - do they tell their boyfriends or husbands? From your experience, what happens?

Do you think WG are usually honest? and can you trust guys?

What advise would you give me now? Assuming everything else is OK in the relationship, and my problem is with her work, what should I do with the WG girlfriend I have?

China Lily

10-15-06, 03:09

Alex,

I think you should talk to her about everything and if you can trust her go with her and don’t think about her work. Enjoy her when you are with her.

You asked if sex work girls are usually honest. Most aren’t because they feel they can’t trust guys or they are afraid that if their boyfriend knows what they do then they can’t accept it. It’s not fair but that is life. Some girls are honest with clients but can't be with a boyfriend. They are afraid to lose him.

Most girls want to settle down and have a house and a happy family and some will be a mistress to get it even if their man is married to another woman. In China girls come to Beijing from Harbin or other cities and have a husband or boyfriend back home – they lie about their work saying they work in a hotel or something like that. Some married couples come together to the city and the husband likes it if his wife is a “xiaojie” because she brings lots of money home. But then I see sometimes those guys take their wife’s money and pay for a karaoke or massage girl.

I had an American husband, he knew what I did because he met me in the Karaoke bar, but I gave up work to marry him. But then after 6 months he found another girl and dumped me. I went back to work again and forgot my husband. I found a nice guy and fell in love with him but didn’t tell him what I did. When he found out I lost him. I wish I had given up before he found out and stopped working. I still love him and want to marry him but I think I’ve lost him forever. All my girlfriends told me I should have stopped working. It’s my fault. I like making money too much and want to make as much money as I can while I am still sexy. Chinese girls say you can’t have bears paw and eat fish. It means you can’t make lots of money as a sex worker and have a husband as well. I think it is true.

Now I find a young boyfriend to live with me. I pay him some money like keeping a pets. I have someone at home when I come home and someone to come shopping with me or keep me company. This is my third one. I don’t love them they are ducks. They know what my work is and don’t care and I know they only want my money, but I don’t care. If I find a nice guy again, I know must stop working as a xiaojie. I think I can’t tell my man what work I did, but I will be a very good wife.

If you can trust your girlfriend, why not go with her? If she’s not lying to you that is good, and I think she will be very open about sex like white collar girls can’t be.

Jonlittle

10-15-06, 10:38

I totally agreed with China Lily. Prostitutes make excellent gitl friends once they are devoted to you. I met my Chinese girl friend Xiao Ya in a MP and I guess it was love at first sight. She is now back to her hometown in Fujian China. I am planning to marry her end of this year. Believe me guys, they are absolutely loyal to you once they are in love with you. Xiao Ya and I have nothing hidden between us and sex is great. She arranged a 3some with her best friend as she knows exacyly what man really wants. She fully understand that it is only my fantasy but my heart is with her after my fantasy is fulfilled. I love her.

Believe me, postitutes make excellent life partners if you find the right ones.

I hope China Lily will find her Prince very soon.

Cheers,

Jon

Chibi Asian

10-15-06, 16:40

I have been an escort girl for over 10 years. I met an American guy and got married for 6 months and went to Brazil with him. I was a good wife, then I had to go back to China for my visa. When I went back to Brazil he had a new Brazilian girlfriend in my home.

I came back to CHina and worked in Passion and as escort then met a really nice guy. We were together for 6 months then he found out I was an escort girl. He broke up with me and I was very upset. I tried to keep him.

I really love him but he cannot understand sex with customers is nothing and love wit boyfriend is very different.

I will be a very good girlfriend or wife and so are my friends. Guys have sex with lots of girls so what is the difference. Escort girls will not be upset if you have sex with other escort girls. We know how they think.

I think Sex worker girls make better girlfriends or wives than other women because we have seen more and done more and we don't get hangup if you have had sex with other girls.I couldnt have agreed more on your last sentence. Well of course not ALL sex workers are like that. But i think in general it quite true. I grew up in a western environment and when i finally returned back to SE asia where i'm from, i was quite shocked at how hypocritical the people there are. Especially at judging other people without actually considering things beforehand.

Alex Rock

10-15-06, 18:34

I admire you and wish you the best. On one level fully appreciate it and envy you. On another level I think I have hang ups.

I agree with what China Lily said too. WG can make great girlfriends once they commit to you.

Alex Rock

10-15-06, 18:37

Me too, I'm amazed at how hypocritical people can be. They love working girls when they are on business trips but pretend to be so upright when they are home.

Alex Rock

10-15-06, 18:49

China Lily,

Thanks for your comments. I agree honesty pays - it makes it easier later on and lets you feel at ease and fre in a relationship.

I too wish you the best to find a nice guy. From my own experience I’d suggest you give up sex work as soon as you find someone you love. Not because it's wrong, but because guys, including myself have a hard time accepting it. It’s not fair but, I think you will be happy unless you find a really confident guy.

As for my new WG girlfriend – (now she’s a friend really) I can talk to her about everything, I do trust her, but because with my first WG girlfriend I couldn’t stop thinking about her work, I’m afraid I will have hang ups with this friend. WG are very easy to be with.

I can completely understand why you pay for a duck boyfriend to keep like a pet.

May I ask you, do you respect the ducks?

You are a sex worker and have sex with customers, and when you had a boyfriend you loved you liked sex with him, how about sex with the young boyfriend duck?

China Lily

10-15-06, 19:02

Thank you.

I can expect Xiao Ya and you have nothing hidden between you and she loves sex with you.

If she loves you she won't feel threat if she brings her friend for sex with you, but she will be mad if she finds out you do it behind her back.

Sex worker girls are much more open than white collar girls and we can love very strongly. It's not easy to trust a man, but when she does she will treat you like a king.

China Lily

10-15-06, 19:08

Thank you,

I think there are lots of types of guys. Some treat sex workers with respect others treat us like dirty, but I hate it when guys say we have sex with lots of guys so we are no good, but they have sex with lots of us girls. It should be the same.

Whe a guy is paying, I don't care if he looks down on me. All I want is the money and then I go. If it is a guy I love then I do care.

When I loved my husband and after, my boyfriend I did everything to make them happy. I think sex worker girls know how to do it better than other girls.

China Lily

10-15-06, 19:46

Alex,

Can you try to understand sex with a customer is very different.? When I love a guy it feels very different. It is warm and loving. If I don’t have a boyfriend I can sometimes like sex good with customers, but when I have my boyfriend I don’t ogasm with customers any more. I don’t know why. Maybe because I am used to warm sex with my boyfriend.

Men like sex with their wives and with sexworker girls too. They like excitement of different girls or pretty and sexy girls. It don’t mean they don’t love their wife – so it should be the same for you too Alex.

You ask me if I do respect the boy ducks? The answer is yes and no. I respect ducks because they are people just like my girlfriends and they are strong, handsome and will do sex women want and good service. I don’t respect them if they only rely on women’s money and can’t get other work. Some customers are very nice guys and are very rich and big business. They are much better men than duck boys but I only spend time with customers if they pay. I never never give time for customers if they don’t pay and even if I like them, customers are always customers.

I don’t need sex with duck boy but if he wants sex we do it with no condom. I ask him to kiss my pussy so I can easy ogasm. We do sex my way only with him on top. I want to be lazy. With customers I must do sex in different ways even if I don’t like it. I am working. I don’t love duck boy but he is my pet and he does what I want. THIS TIME HE is working. I pretend he is a boyfriend or a housekeeper or a shopping helper but I don’t want him for sex. If I am alone I feel lonely, if he is there, I don’t feel lonely.

I like wake up and see him next to me. I like because I don’t have to be nice and sexy like I do. with customers. I do what I want at home. Before I hide my job from my boyfriend and if I come home late or next day he will be upset. Duck boy cannot say anything. If he I will get another one.

Petemcc

10-16-06, 02:09

Girls do it for money. Money is the only thing they think about. Men do sex all the time with girls for free or if tey pay. It will never change men like sex and need axcitement.

Men look down on me but they want my sex. I know and they know. I get money they get excitement.Sorry I haven't been online for a while and didn't read your posts. Thanks for your input. It is especially welcome from a Chinese girl. By the way, your English is excellent.

Guys, we are in trouble here. Three articulate, intelligent, lovely ladies who are/have been WGs, or maybe we should treat it as an opportunity to learn more!

China, I know what you say, especially about the drugs, but unfortunately my experience as a cop in Manchester was of heroin addcit SWs, and I think it's fair to say that in western cultures, many people equate prostitution with drugs. My limited experience in China and Thailand was with WGs who were definitely not users, and similarly in Australia.

IMHO, it is the illegality of prostitution that attracts drug users. Of course it is highly illegal in China (though accepted?) but unlike most countries in the west where unemployed people receive state befefits, and prostitutes can use their earnings solely for their habit, in the east it seems to me that it is more about living for most of the girls, and for the lucky few, getting ahead.

Why did I say illegal? Regulation, that's why. From what I can gather from the 3 of you, you are professionals who take a pride in their work. I am sure that you would not be adverse to checks. Many people in Australia have to undergo yearly / twice / three-yearly criminal history checks. Many employees who work in mines etc have to undergo drug testing. If these were done professionally and properly in a regulated environment, by people other than the police, I would like to think that genuine WGs would have no objection.

Where I policed for 11 years- Manchester, England, prostitution of any kind is illegal. Yes, there are places where men can go, clubs, MPs, or escorts, but they are very expensive. SW drugies offer a service at a fraction of the cost.

Let's face it, the stats say that what 1 in 5 men will use a prostitute? It's supply and demand, there's plenty of demand, but not much supply, which is why the no-hopers can gain a foothold.

China Lily, I have the greatest respect for you, I have for all decent people, and I hope you get your dream man.

I hope in years to come that clever articulate girls like you, Sascha and Rubber can help change things. As I have said before, and as people know, it is the oldest profession. Why shouldn't you be treated like professionals?

At the end of the day, like any professional, the lousy ones will not get recommendations from friends, the good ones will provide a quality service and get paid accordingly! It all seems so simple, if only it were.

Finally, and I had only intended to write a paragraph, (but as usual I get carried away) on the WG/girlfriend senario.

Men have such horrendous double standards. We see nothing wrong with shagging anyone we can, or paying for it, but if our wives/girlfriends do it, well, they are all the bad words imaginable. Why is that? I don't know, but can I suggest that it may be about security, and emotional maturity.

My wife knew I shagged an ex-prisoner ( I was a prison officer), druggie, 15 years my younger. Yeah she was pissed off to the extreme, but she stood by me- she loves me to death. I ultimately had to leave my job because of this girl, and I lost a lot of money and benifits, but that is a different story. Her one concern was that I was going to leave her for some young thing, who to be honest was gorgeous and fucked like nothing I had ever experienced, but she was never for me. Shortly after the shit hit the fan, I told my wife I was going to Thailand, and I told her why. The morning I was leaving, I was on the front page of the local papers in a bullshit story about this girl- apparently I was important!-whatever!

I went to Thailand and when I returned I told her exactly what I had done. Fortunately, after being together for 24 years, she knew that I was not going to leave her for some little Thai girl. She accepts now that I have the need to do such things, and now she suggests that she can do as she pleases. I have told her that she can, because simply, she loves me. She is so dependant on me that she would have problems without me. Don't get me wrong, she's a clever woman, probably cleverer than I am- and she's a science and maths teacher, but she relies on me.
The point? Well, she knows that I can and will shag other women ( she even offered to pay for me to go to LOS again!), but she knows I will not leave her- we are just too good together. I have given her the green light to do what she wants, because I can't be a hippocrit, and I know the chances of her finding someone like me who is intelligent, likes what she likes- even wierd sci fi things!, cooks for her, etc, and whom she would want to leave me for, are pretty slim.

So men and WGs. If you are in love, good together and need each other, give it a go. So what, you both screw around, it's only sex. If one of you starts to love another sex partner, then it could be a problem, but as long as you love each other what's the problem?

I'd better finnish now- been on noght shift and had too many beers.

PeterPanCan

10-16-06, 07:09

Me too, I'm amazed at how hypocritical people can be. They love working girls when they are on business trips but pretend to be so upright when they are home.Greetings Alex,

Call it hypocrisy, call it living a double standard life, call it by any other name - what else could a married man do in order to have the cake and eat it?

In a larger part of this world where polygamy is outlawed and man being man how else could he keep his sanity but amaze others by his hypocrisy?

Imagine Mr. Screwball coming home from work and saying : "Hi Hunney, *smoooch. I have to forgo dinner tonight. Ms. Cometither has invited me for some home cooked beef balls."

You would agree, not in a million chance would Mr. Screwball say such a thing to his hunney bunny.

There is no need to mention those fortunate whose faith allows the already married man to wed three more women on condition that each wife permits the husband. And since it is out in the open for the adherents of this faith where polygamy is granted, then the happy son-of-a-gun wears it on his sleeve from dawn to dusk.

Lazzaro

10-16-06, 13:54

China Lily

We sell sex and we give men the excitement they don't get from other places
I agree with you, but only from one point of view: Ours (males) point of view.
I know lot of friend of mine, who go to WGs and they say "we pay for sex, we want sex. Other I don't caer like when I go to a restaurant: I want eat in the best way, and I don't care about others situation"
Also, we have the same sex we had with the so-called "normal girls". The difference is that if we ask something "strange" (and for strange often it is a simpli CIM), she open her's eyes wide and call us perverted. Then she agreed for a CIM, but "after", during the day (one else day) she lokk at us in a strange way so we can feel "dirty"

But I know also people who go to WGs beacuse they feel down and often (maybe all the times) WGs give him a words of wisdom: WGs are very good councillors.

I know men might look down on me but he is paying for sex and I give him sex. He wants excitement, I give him excitement. That is what we sell.
You see, CL, that (at least here in Italy) often if a girl need money in a very short time, she think to sell sex: it is a good way to earn quickly money.
In this way, while she's with a customer, she is pressing him to finish shortly, because she's looking for money, and after that customer there is another waiting for her. She is not selling sex. She is milking money.
On the other side, if we (men) are perfect idiots that if we smell a pussy, it is difficult continuing think with our brain instead with the dick.
These girls know very well this, and, as wrote, milk more man as possible.

He wants excitement, I give him excitement.
The difference from "we" and "you" (man and woman) is simply: if "you" decide that this evening you have sex, YOU HAVE SEX even with a perfect unknown met that evening; in the opposite, if we want have sex this evening, it is very difficult, so we pay for it!

Men are no different. They sleep with girls for free or for money.
The same is for women if wants an increase of salary or a job, or......

They do things for their bosses rthat they don't like. What is the difference?
All the "world of job" do the same. Men are bastard and often they stab who they find in front of them, women do the only thing that men can't do!

IMHO I try don't generalize.

Lazzaro

10-16-06, 14:09

China Lily
Sasha
RN

I'm still wondering how you can trust in a guy who comes to you.
I mean: if a guy comes to you to have sex, it means that he did already in the past or is mentally prepared (or is used to) to go with a WG.
If, after lot of times, he tells you that you like him (and also he likes you); how could you begin a "story" with him? You have no every time, the suspicion that, as he went to you, he could go to another WG?

On our turn, if we think that you can meet a man who is a real incredible lover, we know that the comparison is easy ("Client did this while HE didn't,.....) and we can't stand comparison, at least, mentally......

Sasha Coffee

10-16-06, 19:35

Sinanju Master

10-17-06, 01:03

so much for expanding my boundaries. If a source with a relevant frame of reference to the subject at hand says it'll never work, I'm not gonna waste my time exploring the possbilities. On to other things.....

Lazzaro

10-17-06, 16:16

Lets face it. This is a pointless arguement.
Most of you would never consider dating a working girl. And for the most part any serious professional working girl would never consider dating a client.
And all for the reasons that have been posted on this thread recently.
Most offices have a no date policy and thats for a reason. Well a sensible working girl treats her body like a business and lives by the same rules that any other working person lives by.
I have never yet seen a client and wg run off and been happy ever after. It always ends in tears. Either the wg returns to working or the guy (client) returns to what he knows best.
The relationship built between WG and client is a business arrangement, sure some are pleasurable but in the end its a business relationship and needs to be treated as such. Its not a dating agency its a service.
Ok it is not a dating agency its a service, but also in Office, after sometime I heard another girl, we decided to have a drinki together.
It's quite normal.
But once, I went to a girl close to the hour I know she finished her "shift"...
Well I rung the bell and I told her "what's about a drink?" Her answer was unrepeatable, nut the main thing she thought was that she believed that I wanted have sex for free....

But maybe here in Italy, things are different than other part of the world.

Maybe, the problem that prostitution is not illegal, but it is illegal the exploitation of and incitement of.
Said that, if policemen want everithing fell down under "exploitation of and incitement of"

Ciao

Sasha Coffee

10-17-06, 19:10

Its not that I'm saying WGs don't make good girlfriends we do. In fact they make great girlfriends, they'll give you heaps of sex, cook, clean and do everything for you. Its our way of compensating for our job.

Its that we sneer and giggle at the office romance. I don't mean just work drink lazarro. Well dating the WG you have been paying is getting the same sneers from her workmates.

Sinanju if you want to date a WG go for it. Its an enriching experience. Just don't date one you've been paying. Because trust me she has told you lies and if you date she has to confess to the lies and then the trust issues come into it. If you want to date one, date one you haven't paid.

Thats the only way I've seen WGs have successful relationships.

Sinanju Master

10-18-06, 02:23

Sasha, it's a given (I think) that creating and maintaining such a relationship with a WG would be a challenge at best. Like I said, if I were to enter into a relationship and she told me about her profession AFTER THE FACT instead of up front, THEN I'd have trust issues. If she told me up front, it would be MY problem if I couldn't handle it. A while back, I expressed some misgivings if I would have been involved with a WG, because by comparison, in a very short amount of time, she would have accumulated sexual experiences (volume-wise and technique-wise) that would take ME a lifetime to accumulate. She would eclipse my skills in the sack. This person countered by saying that if said WG HAD been involved with, say, 350 men, I should take note of the fact that she chose to be with ME. So, such a situation would require a shift in my thinking. Not IMPOSSIBLE, but it would require a conscious effort to embrace new boundaries and shedding old ones.

To give you a few laughs, a while back, I bought a book written by an exotic dancer titled: "How to date an Exotic Dancer". It's almost the same as the current topic: the need to shed jealousy and to embrace the new while shedding the old ways of thinking. I hope you don't pull an abdominal muscle from laffing! LOL

PeterPanCan

10-18-06, 11:11

It is interesting, reading the various inputs on this subject.

Considering the matter from the finger wagging, “Didn’t I forewarn you so” to the doubtful eyebrow raiser, “Oh, there are rare exceptions you know” and the incredulous comment, “Now, I’ll be damned, you don’t mean to say really” one could agree or disagree summarily to each and every viewpoint given as well as for other viewpoints yet to unfold here.

Life is not made up of two basic colours; white and black. There is an enormous amount of values that would influence one’s answer; such as one’s own upbringing, education, religious belief, personal experiences, social norms, culture, sexual fetish, idealism, bigotry and whatever else.

And what about male dominance? This is not intended to start another round of argument (in a positive sense), by mentioning about the MCP (Male Chauvinist Pig) syndrome because traditions die hard. Males will forever wish that his gender is not being downgraded vis-à-vis female relationship or interaction.

Therefore, matrilineal or matriarchic forms of human existence have been absolutely rare throughout civilization.

Regardless of the circumstance, the debate about whether it is possible for a man to accept a WG as his bride, friend, confidant, playmate, etc., would depend on a host of preconditions and conditions for the male.

What all the above gibberish means is that there is no clear answer for such a question that would embrace a compendium of what-ifs.

To each his own because the ability for one to accept or to reject the premise that it is tenable for a WG to become a bride, friend, confidant, playmate, etc., is left entirely to what one conceives happiness to be.

Having said that and taking a cue from the indices of divorces and boy-girl
break-ups does a relationship with a non-WG guarantee anything different?

Lazzaro

10-18-06, 11:28

If you want to date one, date one you haven't paid.
Thats the only way I've seen WGs have successful relationships.

...it means that, if I were there, if I meet you walking on the street while you're going to shopping I have some chance to date you?
In the opposite, if I saw you while you're working, even if you seem to me a goddes on th earth, I have any chance given that to approach you, I should pay you?

It sound strange, but maybe my English is too much rusty........

Sasha Coffee

10-18-06, 18:52

Thats exactly right.

If I was in a bar, or shopping, or sitting on the beach, and you approached me yes you might have a chance of dating me. Exactly like you might have a chance with any other girl.

If you saw me at work there would be no chance of dating me. It wouldn't matter what you did.

Thats the way it should be. You should never take your work home.

China Lily

10-18-06, 19:41

I agree with Sasha, if you date a working girl, its best if its not one you have paid unless you and she decide to become lovers on the first time.

I have lots of girlfriends who were working and now live with or have married guys who know what work they did. Most guys insist the girls stop the work and don't mind what they did before as long as they feel the girl is fiathful now.

A few guys want the girls to be faithful while they are in town, but know how they make money when they leave town.

I see my working girl friend get very strongly attached to their boyfriends even if they still work.

I married a guy who knew what I did and it didn't work out. Later I fell in love with a guy who didn't know what I did then he couldn't accept it. I still love him. I wish I had given up when I met him.

Alex Rock

10-19-06, 13:23

Sasha,

I accept your general observations and conclusions that the majority of guys will run from sex workers – but I’m convinced that as more of us get to understand the psychology of ourselves and the women, and where the profession becomes understood and is accepted, then it SHOULD become more acceptable.

My own perceptions of sex workers has evolved from negative prejudice and looking down on them, to fearing their power, to thinking that I understand some and to have loved one and got very close to a few others as friends.

Like all people, not all sex workers will make good girlfriends and wives. I’ve lived in China and have met sex workers that come from very different backgrounds. Some are very sophisticated, selective and seem to be great catches for guys, others are uneducated, some are gentle and considerate, others never trust guys and are after money as quick as they can. They appear to have different motivation and different self images. I’m sure guys vary across the same spectrum.

I believe, from talking to friends, both guys and girls that many people can accept entering a relationship with a sex worker if she(he) gives it up so the work becomes something of the past. It’s much harder if the sex worker wants to continue in the profession.

I know some guys who have Mongolian or Chinese girlfriends who are sex workers. The girls are loyal while the guys are in town, and if they don’t provide enough cash for the girls to sustain their desired lifestyles, they know the girls work to make up the cash. They range from guys who treat the relationships as temporary to those who do get hitched. I know a sex worker from Sichuan who had an Italian boyfriend, was living with him and got pregnant by him. They broke up because he expected her to live on next to nothing so she left him and never told him she had his baby.

The so-called “high class escorts” seem to be more successful finding boyfriends or husbands, who know what they did, and those guys might not necessarily be rich guys. Financially independent women can choose from a wider range of potential husbands. But that’s a whole different topic of discussion.

I know from experience that living with a working girl can be fantastic. Finding out what she did and going through the range of feelings was a hell of a growth experience and has changed my views forever. My struggle has been between the intellectual and emotional conflict. I read books and talked to girls about it and think I understand myself better.

As per an exchange with Rubber Nursey, I think honesty and openness must be the basis premise for a relationship.

I’m also convinced there are more guys who can handle having sex workers as girlfriends and / or wives.

China Lily

10-19-06, 13:59

In China most girls separate customer from friends and boyfriends. We do not spend time with a customer unless he's paying. But from my friends, some escort girls spend a long time with customers and go on trips, sometimes they start to get feelings.

I know many girls who go crazy over clients, WHo knows why?

Alex Rock

10-19-06, 14:47

I've had several experiences where working girls wanted to be my girlfriend. One girl I paid, she stayed the night at my place and then wanted to stay for a few days - for a holiday - no more money changed hands. She was (is) great fun, but I keep her as a friend and have had some fun nights out with here.

Another karaoke/escort girl who knew about my ex, asked if she could be my girlfriend. She said if I wanted her for one night I'd pay the usual price, If I wanted her to be my girlfriend she'd give up the job and would ask me to give her enough cash to live on per month (equivalent of 2-3 nights at full price). Some girls like this know that it starts off as a commerical relationship and may stay that way, but I think they hope it becomes more.

I know another who ran a small business and ran into cash flow problems, she'd work 5 star hotel bars or lobbies 2-3 nights a week to help her through her cash flow problems. I paid her once, then after that never paid again. Once a week or two, she'd stay at my place and I'd sometimes stay at hers. It was very nice.

Maybe their kind of sex work, circumstances or motivation might mean girls will think differently.

Sasha, Rubber Nursey, China Lily - guys - any comments??

Clandestine782

10-19-06, 15:19

Why can't you receive private messages?

I had some lengthy questions to ask you that probably are not best to be posted on the forum.

Lazzaro

10-19-06, 15:57

Sasha Coffee

You should never take your work home.
:D :D :D....forgive me....I'm still laughing......
You're wonderful!!!!
...and really likeable!

If I was in a bar, or shopping, or sitting on the beach, and you approached me yes you might have a chance of dating me. Exactly like you might have a chance with any other girl.
...and, in this case, if I approach and you "accept" my avances, you will tell me about you? if yes, when? Immediately or after some time? How much time "after"?

If you saw me at work there would be no chance of dating me.
not even if I come to you lots of time and among us "spring up" something more?

In the truth, I thought about this lots of time, and if I really love you and if you tell me you love me, I don't care what you do or don't.
Mainly I have confidence in the girl I love, since when I notice the is sincere with me (obviously I'd be the same with her), so if I should really in love with a girl and she tell me she loves me, I could understand perfectly its only a job like another.....

Last: it is very agreeable "talk" with you (you I mean: you,Rubber Nursey and China Lily)
I have only to thank you to explain us your point of view, while you know ours

Ciao
L.

China Lily

10-19-06, 17:52

Please ask any questions on open forum. I will be honest if you will too.

China Lily

10-19-06, 18:00

Sinanju, when girls are with a customer it feels very different from your boyfriend. Wehn I was with my boyfriend I liked sex different to when Im with customer. When I am with my duck boyfriend I didnt really care about him because I pay him. If your girlfriend is a sex worker, she won't care very much how good you are - she will feel warm and cosy with you. If you have a sex worker girlfriend you shouldn't worry what she thinks about your skills. Even if a customer is strong and sexy guy, I still want him to finish quick and let me go home. I hate it if a customer sleeps before paying me so I have to wait till he wakes up to pay, because I want to sleep next to my boyfriend.

Alex Rock

10-19-06, 18:15

You can't generalize as people change from day to day and moods change depending on how much sleep you've had.

I do think the kind of sex work a girl does makes a difference. I's guess massage parlor girls would not date clients. Girls from Passion used to vary from 100% pros - totally money oriented to some girls who didn't seem to be full timers. I met one who had been a ski instructor and left her husband, she used to earn 400 RMB a month - a really nice girl ready to find a boyfriend. Another was a DOCTOR from Xinjiang. Yes it's true. I suspected her at first but after asking her questions about hospital admissions, cardiology and if she ever did surgery, it took her about 1 minute to convince me she was really a doctor, but after 2 minutes I was 100% sure. What she told me - and I accept she might not have been totally honest - was that she would date a guy she met in Passion, but not if she'd had paid sex with him. She said she plays different roles.

I know a guy who took a SW home and now she's his live in maid. She'll provide sex if he wants, but he usually finds other girls for sex. That's not a girlfriend relationship - it's still commercial.

I think maybe not all escorts are full time which is maybe one reason why those who are part time might be in some place between full timers and non WG.

Alex Rock

10-19-06, 18:24

China Lily

10-19-06, 18:37

Alex I think I know what you mean. When I worked in Passion, a CHinese Lady would come with her husband from Austrlia and have fun choosing girls to go and sleep with him. She would like to try different girls for her husband. They were very happy. Sometimes rich ladies playing majong would call for girls for their husbands - they laughed with there majong friends and the husbands were happy. Maybe its Chinese culture, becuase men before had a wife and if he was rich he had concubines. Now rich guys have wife and ernai - everybody knows, sometimes the wife and ernai hate each other sometimes they are good friends because they spend more time with the man.

When I find my prince, I will let him sleep with my girlfriends if he wants, but only if I am there. I know it makes a man feel happy to have sex with more women. If we cant stop it why should we try?

Alex Rock

10-20-06, 02:49

I can fully understand your separation of work from the rest of your life. Maybe "what-if"'s are too hypothetical.

If we were to meet you on the beach or in a supermarket, you'd be open to an approach. Say we got interested in each other, how soon would you let me know what your work is?

If you hadn't told me what your work was, and we had started to date and become friends, then I came to the place you work, would you hide, be up front, embarrassed or not bothered at all? Would you accept me as a client? and would it change the way you looked at me?

On that tone, some guys seem to think WG look down on them, others seem to think most guys pay for sex at some time or other. Do you differentiate between guys who pay for sex and those who don't?

Alex Rock

10-20-06, 02:56

Do you become friends with clients? Would you date a client or let a client become your boyfriend?

How do you feel if you know your boyfriend has paid girls for sex before and might have been with some of your girlfriends?

Do you think your husband separated with you because he knew you had been a working girl even though you had given up to marry him?

When your boyfriend found out your work, do you think you could have kept him if you gave up your work?

Alex Rock

10-20-06, 02:59

I was fascinated by your post in response to China Lily.

When you shagged the prisoner, was it a mutual relationship? Maybe she needed sex, or was it because you had the power to give her something?

Did your wife see it the same way as if you had been with a working girl or just like a one night stand.?

Sinanju Master

10-20-06, 03:25

Sascha (and the other current and former WG's here) what was the soonest (number of non-sexual meetings) you have ever revealed your profession to a guy? To put it another way, how soon were you able to ascertain that the guy was cool with what you do (before coming out and telling him) and then reveal it to him?

PeterPanCan

10-20-06, 04:28

PeterPanCan,

From experience, WG are much more liberal and have few or no hang ups because I guess they've seen all the "bad" sides of guys. You can show interest in sexy girls, even screw one - witrh your WG GF knowledge (never behind her back) and WG don't seem to get hung up about it.

I think the feeling of freedom that some WG's can give you is something women who have hang ups can't.Greetings Alex,

You hit the nail smack on its head. I fully agree.

Years ago when I lived and worked in Bangkok, I had a great time going with this WG whom I picked up at one of the joints in the city. Not necessary to describe her assets for this post. She was "wife" to me (in fact more wife to me than my legal wife) until my real one arrived some 10 months later as planned to live with me. What a life it was with this Thai WG. She never made a nuisance of herself when my wife was with me and I had nothing to fear in that regard. Knowing that she langoured and missed being with her son, I redeemed her from her pimp and gave her another 5K USD to return to Lampang to be with her son. She used to phone me at my Office every once in a while to chat with me. I was happy that she found a job at a restaurant in Lampang and being mother to her son who had just started his first year in school.

Presently, I have an Indonesian girl. When I met her, she was 18+, a victim of a con man who lured her to Batam for a better paid job, but sold her to a Mummy. Average in beauty. When we met she had served about 3 months in the meat trade. She confessed to me that she wanted to get out but could not because of the her outstanding debt with the pimp. Having tested her sincerity for the following 6 months, I finally redeemed her. Since then she has been almost everything that a man could ask for.

Yes, and this Indonesian girl, just like the Thai girl, has seen it all, done it all and is liberal in every sense of the word. Their life experience of having been to hell and back is something that makes them a class above those other women and wives who make marriage so jaded in comparison.

Cheers,

Clandestine782

10-20-06, 11:11

I want to respect the other posters in the forum and not derail it with irrelevant questions. Perhaps we can finish our discussion by email.

Mine is: Clandestine782@email.com

Technically, it is against the forum rules, but I am between a rock and a hard place. Either my post could get deleted because it is way off topic (if I delved into it), or because it contains an email address-- but since Lily is not a Senior Member, she cannot receive messages.

Petemcc

10-20-06, 12:35

i was fascinated by your post in response to china lily.

when you shagged the prisoner, was it a mutual relationship? maybe she needed sex, or was it because you had the power to give her something?

did your wife see it the same way as if you had been with a working girl or just like a one night stand.?she was an ex-prisoner, and therefore a free person! unfortunately our code of conduct didn't see it that way!

that is a very hard question to answer, and because i am anon. i will tell you the story- maybe then you will understand. grab a coffee or a beer or 3 and get ready.
i first met katrina about 8 years ago, when i worked in the police lock-up. she was a half-caste aboriginal girl, tall, slender and very pretty. she was a junkie- heroin, morphine, speed, anything, but very intelligent, and she had a personality. even then, at 19, she was good at manipulating people.

over the years i met her in my course of work on many occasions. she could be the worst ***** under the sun, she didn't give a fuck what happened to her, or whatever, if she wanted to play up, she did. however i clicked with her. about 7 years ago, while i was performing duties in the courts, she had a broken leg. while walking down the stairs to court, she slipped and she was about to smash the back of her skull off a stone step, which even for a half aboriginal would probably have meant death. i dived in and caught her.

roll on a few years, she is in prison. she has just cut her wrists, properly, and a fellow officer saves her by throwing a blanket over her- she was threatening to throw blood at anyone who came near her. she is hep c, and everyone thought the rest, but as it turns out she was only hep c. anyway, she gets put into isolation. one night she is smashing her head off the cell wall, and generally being a twat. then, she unravels the bandage from her wrists ( on which she had surgery to repair the arteries) and wraps it around her neck and ties a tight knot- an because it is elastic bandage and she stretched it, when she tries to breath she can't as it is tight. i see this on camera, and end up cutting it off her- shit happens afterwards which is irrelevant, like holding her down for an hour until she can be restrained or medicated.
the next day, i was checking on her and she gives me a piece of paper, she says- i am out in 3 days, i want to thank you for saving my life again, i'll buy you a drink, here's my number. wow, a 26 year old stunner wants to do that!

5 days later i phone her. she asks me to meet her, but says- i'm going to fuck you! we meet, hotel room, and do we fuck, shit, it was the best ever, she was the best gfe ever.

we parted company and i truely thought she would go to the cops and complain of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123). no, she fucked off somewhere for about 3 months.

by this time i was the intellegence officer at the prison- and this girl is well connected. i pumped her, and she supplied me with information. she has a thing for older guys and eventually, unfortunately, she decided that i would have to leave my wife of 20 years for her- a junkie prostitute ( oh yeah, she fld when she could- or was not so fucked on frugs that she could actually operate!). she ended up blowing me out to the bosses, via a third party, another prisoner whom i made life difficult for because she was a ***** getting things smuggled into the prison- another story.

to answer your question specifically, she was besotted by me. i used to get phone calls all the time from her, especially when she wanted to kill herself, and like a dick, i'd come running, and sort her head out. also, this girl was raped at aged 11 by her brother and his 4 mates, and encountered multiple [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) since then- being a druggie. she said i was the only man who made her cum, etc. i felt geuinely sorry for her, i fond her physically attractive and when we fucked it was awesome. she told me that when she first fucked me that it was so she could use me if she went back to prison again, but after a while she fell in love with me and needed me because i'd done so much for her. mate the whole thing is more complicated than a reply can convey, but suffice it to say for a year there was mutual attraction there. yeah, perhaps i helped her out, but without compromising my professionalism, apart from one time- which is why they got me. she wanted a photo of her ex-cell mate, who was on remand for murder, so i got it and emailed it to her. unfortunately she had teamed up with that other ex-prisoner, who hated me something rotten, and she got hold of the email and went to my bosses. in the scheme of things, i was only a screw, but i was president of the union, and was always on the tv and radio. for about 6 months my face was a regular on abc darwin. i knew that i would be dragged through the coals, even if i could have defended the allegation- which i could as she was giving me info, but the publicity would be too much. unfortunately, another officer, who was involved with that other prisoner, and was under investigation by me, and who is still suspended from duty as a result, went to the papers. i was front page news in darwin. that is why i went to pattaya and made a twat of myself. i couldn't stop shaking, i lost everything, long service, etc.

my wife. well after i fucked her first time i told her- only because i did it without a condom. i don't use them, and had one lying around, and was only planning on a quickie with her, but it turned out to be an epic. i knew she had tests in prison and was clean, but she had been out for 2 days before i fucked her, so i didn't want to risk it and had to tell my wife about it. she was pretty understanding, especially when i told her the full circumstances. she did however bring it up for the next year, about how i preferred a 26 year old to her (42) etc. she did not know about the other times i fucked her. so i suppose she saw it as a one night stand, but one that cost me my job.

i told her all about pattaya, and she seems to understand that a lot better because there's no mutual attraction thing there, and she is willing, if not happy, to let me go back to patts because she knows i will come home to her. with katrina, she was worried that i may go off with an unemployed druggie prostitute thief! ha!

i must admit, at one point i was almost thinking about it, and when i talked to her, after the shit hit the fan, she said that she was party to it because if i was no longer a screw then there was no excuse for us not being together!

i liked the girl a lot, for all her faults, maybe even loved her. she believed she loved me. my missus stood by me through the bad times, what more can i say?

you can have that break now!

Alex Rock

10-20-06, 18:40

China Lily

10-20-06, 20:05

Alex,

Yes, I become friend with some clients. Some clients are very nice guys. BUT I usually never meet a client if he doesn't pay me and I neve ask my bofriend to pay me. Even if I really like a client, he is still a client, most times, - almost all times, a client cannot become my boyfriend. Even if I like them, the client alays pays for time with me. If a client becomes a boyfirned - which is never, then I would not ask for money from him.

Some of my girlfriends confuse cleint and boyfriend, that makes it difficult for them.,

I don't care if my boyfriend has paid girls for sex before. I don't care if he has paid my girlfriends. BUT while he is my boyriend I cannot accept him to pay for sex with any girl behind me. If he asks me to get girls it is OK. I hate it if my boyfriend goes to my workplace. and goes with other girls. Then I have no face. I want my girlffriends to think my boyfriend does not need to go to tem for sex.

My husband was a bad guy. I left him for many weeks. He didn't know I come home. I think he didn't care I was an escort girl when he met me, but when I went home to China to get visa, he found another girl.

When my boyfriend found out my work, I think I could have kept him if I gave up my work. He loved me and I loved him.

I wish I told him earlier but I wish I gave up work first. I am wrong. I wanted money too much so I lost him. I wish I took him first and forget the money

Sasha Coffee

10-21-06, 03:36

Ok I would tell as you on the first date, meeting, whatever it was.

For me there is no secrets. I would have to tell even if I didn't want to.

It would only take one night in a bar and someone would tell you who I was anyway. In a small place like christchurch there are no secrets.

And besides, when it comes down to it, what does it matter if you want to date me or not when I've told you what I do. Lets face it, its not like I need a boyfriend for sex, or cuddles, or to mow the lawn.

This is all very hypothetical and totally crazy. Cause the real question is not Would I tell. Its would it matter, and I would bet that to every single one of you it would matter.

A professional working makes a choice in her life, does she want the boyfriend or the life style. Even an idiot can work out that most guys don't handle dating a working girl. So if you make the choice to enter the sex industry and make a commitment to make it your career and be professional there is a price to pay. Having a boyfriend is it.

Perhaps thats what makes me a good working girl. I have enough brains to realise this and treat myself and prospective boyfriends, clients etc with respect.

Who knows, for everyone its different. I just know what has worked and does work for me, and the people in my life

Petemcc

10-21-06, 08:28

Wow. I can't imagine being there. However I must say I think the prisoner, you and you wife are all special people. Your wife sounds like an incredibly understanding woman.

Katrina sounds like a beautiful woman who has had very hard times, which have hardened her, but she needs love and affection like we all do. Is there any hope for her or do you think she'll spiral downwards?

It's wondering for the thread, but at the same time I think it reinforces that girls who become fall on bad times are human, and need affection too - also circumstances put people in front of short term temptation which can have consequences.

Did you ever feel guilty ??????? I bet other people pointed prejudiced fingers at you.Hope for her- no. She has a week of detox every now and then, but then goes straight out and scores again. She has been chucked out of every program there is going. In short, she doesn't want to change, and it is a shame as she has such potential. She was even enrolled on a course to be an Aboriginal health worker, and the offer of a job when she qualified, but she fucked that up by going on a mega bender and not showing up. Her life is selling her body- for which she attracts a pretty big fee because she will do it without a condom- yeah!, and stealing anything that she can sell, then it's straight into the veins, and suddenly the world is a better place. How can real life compete with that?

Do I feel guilty, for what, putting my wife through hell, resigning my job and losing all my entitlements, for having my name and face splashed all over the front page? Yeah!

Even though I am going into a caring profession I am once bitten, twice shy. Nobody is ever going to get the support I gave her ever again. She shit on me from a great height and I had to pick up the pieces.

I still love her. She is a beautiful, clever, vulnerable human being, but she is a lost cause and would only ever drag me down to the point where I lost everything!

Pete

Petemcc

10-21-06, 11:41

Rubber, Sascha, China, I will make a statement and then ask a question.

I know you are( or were Rubber) professionals, and every job has its ups and downs, hard bits and easy bits ( no pun intended). For the last 20 years of my working life I have had to put up with some form of abuse, whether that is being spat at, assaulted, sworn at or having my integrity questioned, but it's part of the job.

Bearing in mind your profesional status, are there things that you consider abuse, apart from the obvious? This is only my personal POV, but jizzing over a lady's face, a common monger act it seems, is to me a degrading act.

I know sex is sex, but did you ever feel that things degraded you as a woman?

I would be interested to know. Obviously we all have our own moral values, and I know you have had disgusting clients, but even with a charming and otherwise attentive and nice client, is there anything that grosses you out?

Thanks

Pete

Alex Rock

10-21-06, 18:28

A professional working makes a choice in her life, does she want the boyfriend or the life style. Even an idiot can work out that most guys don't handle dating a working girl. So if you make the choice to enter the sex industry and make a commitment to make it your career and be professional there is a price to pay. Having a boyfriend is it.

The theory is that is because of the price you pay - i.e. not easy to marry - that the profession can charge such a high price even for unqualified women. However, there are several guys - a minority - who will accept their girlfriend is a sex worker. If there were more guys who accepted he prefoession as normal and society accepted it better then would prices come down?

When I was anguishing in self pity and intense feelings of jealousy, feeling cuckolded and deceived, my WG girlfriend told me it was work with clients and love with me. I accused her of being unfaithful . she said she wasn't unfaithful, there were no emotions, it was just work.

I came up with a theory - my WG girlfriend was having sex every day, getting money, gifts, meals, flirting, going to dance, travelling with 30 guys a month, or 400 guys a year. The time she was spending, and the energy she was expending, the sex she was giving and the payments and attention she received we - in my mind - the same as if she was "married to" or having and affair with ONE GUY 365 days a year, but that ONE GUY was a composite of 400 guys.

Do you think your boyfriend (singular) could be the composite of ALL THE GUYS (plural) and collectively filling you need for a boyfriend. Or do you think as China Lily does, that it's warmer with your own boyfriend?

China Lily

10-21-06, 18:44

dear peter,

it is 2 things, attitude and money. if a customer has a good attitude is respectful and wants anything, most sex work girls will do it. some guys want two girls, they want us to lick each other - most girls will, some don't like it, but will for money. some customer wants to sit in the bath and have a girl [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) on him, if he pays the girl will do it. after the girl doesn;t think about it, she washes and take the money home.

if customer has bad attitude and make a girl feel she is low class or no good, then escort girls will say no and go but countryside girls will say yes. the countryside girls have a lower price and want the money very badly so they will do not nice things for less money.

if a customer is nice and wants me to do anything, i will do it except in my bottom.

i never do it if the customer wants to take magu drugs, and have sex all night. it makes you very tired. some girls will do magu drugs if the customer pays more money.

if a customer has a good attitude and respect, most girls will do almost everything

China Lily

10-21-06, 19:02

Alex, I lost my nice boyfriend because he found out about my work. Just like you found out about your girlfriends work.

Please tell me how could she keep you when you found out? Is there anything she could do to make you take her back? Why can't you see she loved you and it is not the same with customer? I think you are not a virgin and you pay girls for sex, so why is it different if she has sex with a customer and comes home to be with you?

You said you had a close relationship with a sex worker girl after you broke up with your first girlfriend. Why was it different? Why can you accept the work for one girl but not another?

Do you tell your girlfriends that you pay other girls? or do you pretend you are a guy who doens't do that.?

I wish I could have my boyfriend back. Since you have been in same situation, tell me how can she get you back with here?

Alex Rock

10-21-06, 19:13

China Lily

10-21-06, 19:42

My boyfriend told me before me he had a girlfriend who was married. Sometimes he would pick up one night stands for free and sometimes find an escort for money.

I always thought it was almost the same for men with different women, if he comes its the same if its a hooker or a wife. After he told me it was very different, I understand because it is very different for me, even one day to the next day.

I don't feel jeoalus my boyfirne had sex with one night stand or escort but I feel bad he has sex with a married woman.

Before I never care how a guy thinks or feels, but now I want to know if youy think my boyfirend liked it more with a married woman or with me or escort.

May I ask how diffrenent is it in your head with different women?

Sasha Coffee

10-21-06, 20:04

Ok lets that answer that what grosses me out.

I hate smelly crotch areas, if there is one thing men should do when about to have sex with a WG wash your crotches. I mean with soap and water not just jump in the shower and splash it.

The other thing that drive me nuts. Tuning my nipples. You can suck them you can grab my breasts, but don't tune the nipples. I am perfectly adjusted to my station and prefer my nipples not to be used as radio station tuners.

There we go. There are the two things that drive me nuts and make my skin crawl.

As for a guy cumming on my face. Do I find it degrading. No. Its just life imitating art. Its on every porno. What people don't realise is its on the porno cause it looks far better than him cumming in a condom and then pulling out with this full condom hanging off the end of his dick.

Petemcc

10-22-06, 07:52

What was it about her that attracted you so much and made you love her? Looks, sexuality, pity, ??

What was your wife's conclusion? You let your dick run your life? Is your wife tolerant if you screw around? Or was it once only?

Katrina seems to be a case of hopelessness, she needs money to pay for her drugs habit and she doesn't care how she gets it.

This is the point .. drugs and despair are factor which will drive women to do anything - steal or sell themselves to pay for the habit.

This is very different from Sasha, Rubber and China Lily who chose the profession for very diferent reasonsProbably all 3 mate, and her personality, and the thought that I could actually help her- almost use her as a project!

I agree with everything else you say.

My wife, yeah she said my dick was at fault, although she did understand the other aspects, like trying to help her, however she is angry because she said I would lose my job- and I did! Does she let me screw around? Well, chance would be a fine thing. She let me do Thailand and China, and has said I can go back to Thailand again, so I take that as tacit consent!

Pete

Alex Rock

10-22-06, 13:12

Before I never care how a guy thinks or feels, but now I want to know if youy think my boyfirend liked it more with a married woman or with me or escort.

May I ask how diffrenent is it in your head with different women?
That is a very good question! I'll try to answer it as honestly as I can. I can't answer for your boyfriend, only from my own experience. I assume other guys will be similar to me.

With my girlfriend it is THE BEST - period. Loving, slow, or fast, tender or rough and with strong feelings of love. Afterwards, it's great to cuddle and if it's at night to cuddle and sleep together.

With an escort - or paid girl - it can vary from hopeless - no feelings, not caring to a really sexy experience. But no feelings of love and no desire to cuddle. Guys talk about "GFE", when a paid girl "acts" like she's loving it, french kisses, and strokes the guy as if she cares. I think sometimes working girls do have a good time with clients, sometimes they act to make the guy feel ood. For me anyway it's never the same as with a woman you are crazy about. Sometimes with escorts/ paid girls who you are friendly with, it can be fun and relaxed. You get to be friends and talk but it's a "RELEASE" or satisfying an urge. Sometimes I might feel down,or lonely, if have had a few drinks and feel really horny, almost any sexy girl with a short skirt, nice body will attract me. I get a strong horny urge and want to satisfy it. Sometimes it can be friendly and both of us seem to enjoy it, but then it's over when we part.

With a married woman - i.e. in an affair with a married woman it is VERY DIFFERENT. In my experience if a married woman will have an affair with you, she is looking for 2 things - SEX, sex, sex and intimacy and total openess that their hsubands don't give them. Married women becom very emotionally involved wih their lover and extremely passionate. For a guy who is the lover of a married woman - it will be a geat experience - EXCEPT - both are afraid that others find out. That can be bad - if you can't talk whenever you want to, it can be good because in public there is a face and at home of with her husband, she won't call you all the time. BUT I'v found a married woman in an affair will be EXTREMELY JEALOUS if she suspects her lover has anyone else.

If your boyfriend had an affair with a married woman, I can't speak for him, but I will guess he did have a great experience with her. Emotionally as well as sexually.

To answer your last question, I bet he enjoyed it with you best. You had love and feelings and I assume you knew all the "tricks" or techniques to make him feel good physically.

In my case, if I am in a happy, sexy relationship with someone I care about and trust, I don't feel the need to go to bars or go for escorts.

China Lily

10-22-06, 16:13

Dear Alex,

Thank you. I feel bad him probably having a good relationship with the girlfriend who was married. I think I don't care if it is just sex but I care if he feels emotionally.

You didn't talk about one night stands compared to paying. Do guys feel the same if the meet a girl in bar and she goes for free or another who is a working girl?

China Lily

10-22-06, 16:22

Can you move to other town where guys don't know you?

If you stay in the same town then everybody knows what you do so you cant hide it. In China most girls go to different city to work in karaoke, massage or escort, then when they get enough money they go back to their home town and find a man who doesn't know what she did before. Before if she gets in trouble, people in her home town don't know so she does not lose face.

Lots of escort girls come to Beijing, Shanghai or Shenzhen from other cities. If they get enough money they buy house or apartment and stay, some marry rich guys, some are ernai or mistress for rich guy. Most go back to home city. Girls from Shanghai work in Beijing, girls from Beijing work in Shanghai but they try not to work in home city.

In your country can you go to other cities to work and when you go home people don't know?

Alex Rock

10-22-06, 16:47

China Lily,

Again, I hope other guys will tell you if they feel the same.

One night stands - for me (and I assume other guys) they can be great or lousy. Psychologically, it is usually different than with a sex worker. The reasons are simple.

With a one-night-stand, you try to pick up a girl to get her for sex, but she might not go with you. You have to work hard, be funny, be nice and you might not be successful. Sometimes girls go to look for guys so guys have to compete. Sometimes it's easy, usually it's challenging. The sex can be uncertain. Sure some girls can be wild, others might be conservative - you don't know for sure. Then some guys fear the girl will cling to him and not leave. I usually like to sleep all night and be friendly so the one night stand will become a girlfriend or friend, but some guys want to "SCORE" and they get a kick out of scoring. Some girls who pick you up expect or want you to make them come lots of times for a long time. Even if you don't do it, it puts some "performance pressure" on you. They can vary from well balanced girls to some with hang-ups and baggage. It's not so easy to forget as a working girl. SOme guys like to remember all their experiences, especially their conquests.

With a working girl, it's simple, you pay, she give you the service. No risk of her clinging to you. More professional girls will give you good service and do things you ask for. One night stand-freebies often want you to do all the work to make them come. WIth a working girl there is no pressure to perform weel. She is there to make you feel good. Some working girls can become friends. Working girls don't seem to have hang-ups and don't bring any baggage. It can be easy to go with a working girl. You can get your horninenss fixed and go back to other things quick and easy. Afterwards, you can forget it. You can see from these forums, guys can enjoy working girls the ay they enjoy food and wine. They like to try different flavors and will swap stories.

I think you are really asking If you boyfriend enjoyed one night stands more than with working girls. I think he enjoyed both, but probably felt better having been attractive enough to get freebies. So if he can get them, he'd probably enjoy freebies more.

China Lily

10-22-06, 18:58

Dear Alex, Thankyou for spending time to answer me.

I don't care about my boyfriend having sex with other girls, unless he feels feeling for them. It is the feelings I care about. If he has sex with 10 girls, I don't care, but if he makes a girl think he likes her I feel jeoulous.

I was upest because I think my boyfriend had love feelings for the married lady girlfriend. If it is sex fuck like with a sexscort I don't care. I am scared if he has love feelings.

Alex Rock

10-22-06, 19:12

Addiction – to prostitutes

Please tell me what you think about this theory. Some guys live normal lives, dull and mediocre, then one day they have a sexual experience with a prostitute. Then they get addicted to prostitutes. I’ve seen 2 kinds of guys who I think are addicted.

The first kind are the “mongers” who can’t find a stable relationship and who need to go with working girls at least twice a week and every time they go on a business trip.

The second kind is the sheltered type of guy who hasn’t seen the world. He’d never dream of going with a sex worker, but then he’s never been tempted. KTV or bar girls use a few simple tricks which hook him and he can’t get it out of his mind. In no time he is addicted.

I think it is an addiction. – a compulsive behaviour.

Lazzaro

10-23-06, 13:34

petemcc: this is only my personal pov, but jizzing over a lady's face, a common monger act it seems, is to me a degrading act.
i know sex is sex, but did you ever feel that things degraded you as a woman? i think it is a simple question of "situation": if you're with your partner, could happens that she/he told you "please cum on my face: it excite me"; or she/he asks you to "[CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)" upon her/him; but this games are among 2 adults, which have already a story, and, you see, inside a couple, you can play whichever games you want, on condition that both parties accept it freely (how many couples you know like that? me... a lots!). it is a sort of games between lovers and it helps the "growth" of the couple. with a "one night partner" or with a wg, i think it is a simply question of deep respect: if a man think that she's only a sexual object, and consequently act in this way, both of them (one-night-girl and a wg) will notice that and will treat that man for what he's worth.

sasha coffee: i hate smelly crotch areas, if there is one thing men should do when about to have sex with a wg wash your crotches. i mean with soap and water not just jump in the shower and splash it. i noticed it long, long, long time ago: i was in rome for job, when, coming back to the hotel, i noticed a wonderful sw. i picked up her and went to my hotel.
immediately we were undressed and she were expecting i should jump on her, but when she saw that i went to bathroom to have a shower, she were really surpised of that, saying that men don't take really care about their "private area". the result was an incredible treatment by her (at the same rate)

sasha coffee: tuning my nipples. you can suck them you can grab my breasts, but don't tune the nipples. i am perfectly adjusted to my station and prefer my nipples not to be used as radio station tuners. all the girls tell me that in advance: it seems that italian males want adjust the nipples on "their personal" station. in the truth, i like lick them, suck them, feel them,...... but i like it because i have a "mind return" looking how much it makes pleasure to the girl, but if make it feel bad, it doesn't make sense! if i do something that makes pleasure to her, i get a great "mind pleasure" in back!

sasha coffee: as for a guy cumming on my face. do i find it degrading. no. its just life imitating art. its on every porno. what people don't realise is its on the porno cause it looks far better than him cumming in a condom and then pulling out with this full condom hanging off the end of his dick.....porno movie are a ruin! following these movies, it seems that if i come in a pub, quite immediately a very pleasant girl will come to me asking "what do you want?" at this point i could freely answer "i want f**k you" and she will say "oh my god, i was waiting for this" and immediately we start to f**k......!!!
also in the porno, girls are simply sexual doll, without any feeling, and it seems all the men are able to pump for 15/20/25 minutes without cum....

forget what they show in the porno. watch them, if you like them, but don't trust in them.

imho if i want to be respected, i have to respect. in italian, we have different words if you talk with a friend or with a person which is not your friend (i.e. your neighborhood): with friends, we use 2nd singular pronoun (tu), with a person which is not our friend or we respect, we talk with them using 3rd singular pronoun (lei). well, everytime i approached a wg i talk with her using the 3rd singular pronoun, and it make often the difference with a "standard" treatment, and a "special" treatment.

my 2 cent

Sasha Coffee

10-23-06, 19:36

Addiction to prostitutes

I think you are right. Plenty of men get an addiction to WGs.

Sasha Coffee

10-23-06, 19:42

I understand that in China and other parts of Asia it is acceptable to work in another city and then return home to marry.

To me sadly that is basically lying. It is allowing the man you marry to believe things about you that are not true. It is lying by omission.

For me to move to another city and marry a man and not tell him what I did or do for a job would make me a hypocrit of the worst kind.

I have long said that WGs have a right to be proud of the service they provide and the job they do. We have earned and deserve respect. If I ran off to another city and lied to my propective husband about what I did, I would be saying that everything I said before was a lie. And I am not a liar.

I have worked hard and bought my houses, my cars, my motorbike why should I sell them and move to another city just for a man to marry me. I don't think so.

I am not ashamed of what I do. I feel honoured that when I go out in Christchurch people stop and say Hi to me.

I was simply pointing out to Lazarro that there is no way for me to hide what I do and therefore I could not lie about it, nor would I want to. If there is one thing that looks sad and tragic its a WG who lies about what she does.

Lazzaro

10-24-06, 13:57

I was simply pointing out to Lazarro that there is no way for me to hide what I do and therefore I could not lie about it, nor would I want to. If there is one thing that looks sad and tragic its a WG who lies about what she does.
Sasha Coffee, (but also China Lily and Rubber Nursey)

Please don't misunderstand me. (I hope not.)
Sometimes I try to say something I have clear in my mind, but in the translation Italian/English you read the opposite.
I hope you don't feel hurted by me at all: it wasn't may intention.
In the truth, I'm very happy and I consider myself lucky in having a "friendly" relationship with you all.
I hope you read respect from me to you, because above all you're person, and you MUST BE respected for this, and secondly you're girls and you are here in a "testosterone" world trying to chat with some men, explaining us your point of view.
Maybe I could disagree time to time with you, but it doesn't mean I don't respect you!

Thank you for your understanding, and for your time you spent to answer me since now!

I hug you
Ciao

Alex Rock

10-24-06, 18:36

For me to move to another city and marry a man and not tell him what I did or do for a job would make me a hypocrit of the worst kind.

I have long said that WGs have a right to be proud of the service they provide and the job they do. We have earned and deserve respect. If I ran off to another city and lied to my propective husband about what I did, I would be saying that everything I said before was a lie. And I am not a liar.

I am not ashamed of what I do. I feel honoured that when I go out in Christchurch people stop and say Hi to me.

I was simply pointing out to Lazarro that there is no way for me to hide what I do and therefore I could not lie about it, nor would I want to. If there is one thing that looks sad and tragic its a WG who lies about what she does.
Sasha, Your response is enlightening. I had accepted the concept of WG going home and hiding their histories from their husbands but you've made me rethink. Honesty has a high value and is liberating.

Coincidentally, yesterday I was in another city and went to see a close WG friend - in her home town. She reached her target savings and bought 2 apartments in her home town and found a regular, nice white collar guy. They got married after knowing each other for 100 days and have been married for a few months.

She's very happy and says he is. She's not had sex with anyone else since she quit but she still secretly sets up clients with other girls by phone for a commission. Her husband hasn't suspected anything.

He's asked her to travel with him, but she refuses to go to Beijing, because she's afraid of bumping into ex-clients, some of which wouldn't care if she was with someone. She used the word "time bomb", which I guess will hang over her for a while.

She has her secrets and that is clearly still a burden.

If a girl like that gave up the profession, and was honest, I do think some guys would accept it. I personally enjoy the total honesty I have had with her and would have considered being with her. The honesty is refreshing.

China Lily

10-24-06, 18:52

I feel I am like two different parts of me. Even though it is still me, when I am not working I feel natural and relaxed. I want to have one man I love next to me. I will be very nice to him. I hide my work and it seems to fade away. If I am with schoolfriends or my father I think and act normally as a non working girl. I don't like to put make up on or dress sexy. I dress casual or smart and am in the part that likes those clothes and style.

But when I work, a different side of me comes out. I dress sexy or glamorus, and make up with lashes, high heels and expensive clothes. I need to compete with other girls, I must be nice to guys, always smile and look at them. I feel is a different part of me. I can be tough and sometimes need to be. I am very proud of being very good at my job as a top class working girl.

I lost the man I love because he found out about my work. If I find another guy like him, I probably can't tell him, but it will be the part of me that is not the working girl. I won't let him know the working girl part of me. I don't think it is not honest.

China Lily

10-25-06, 01:28

What Sasha said about honesty is making me think. If it was you, and we met and I told you I am a working girl, would it stop you from letting us become a couple? I think most guys have 2 sides to themselves when it comes to working girls. One side likes us, the other side is they are afraid to admit they like us.

My working girl part of me is honest and proud, but it's not honest - I am acting and have a msk on my face. In my home part of me, I am afarid to be honest because I think you won't accept me as a girlfriend or wife.

Alex Rock

10-25-06, 01:38

It seems many of us play act different roles in life. To some people we act tough and dominant, to others we are gentle and caring, we can be fathers, sons, lovers, husbands, clients, gentlement, one of the boys, competitors, team mates, churchgoers and horny old goats. While being honest, we do play different roles with different people and in different situations.

Thinking about what Sasha said, I realize that a few of the WG I know are totally comfortable with honesty and don't separate their work from themselves. One - a really fun girl makes fun of her work, and jokes she is a a "s**t" and bad girl and she loves screwing around. Actually her smiles and funny honesty make her very attractive to people.

Others, like other friends and it seems China Lily, separate their working girl identity from their other selves.

It's not just working girls, it's guys too. Several of my male friends act so nice and upright and are corporate executives, but they enjoy going to sleazy bars or going with escorts. Its obvious why they separate their identities. I do too.

It would be "nice" if we could be open and honest about our desire for friendships or sex services from working girls and for it to be considered acceptable.

Sasha Coffee

10-25-06, 06:01

I just think it is sad, that the stigmatism of the church and society has made people feel they need to have different masks for different situations.

For me, I am lucky, I learnt to market myself as an upmarket professional, not an upmarket professional working girl. I believe it is the attitude that makes people respect you not the job.

My lawyer once told me. Principals are expensive rubies and the poor have them.

It took me ages to realise the meaning of that statement. It just means that when you are professional and making money, no one cares how you make it, they care how you spend it. Only the poor people have time to judge how you make the money, and the only reason they sit on their morals as holier than thou is because they to damn lazy to go and earn money.

Anyway enough of my soap box. I am pleased and proud that you all consider my lowly opinions thought provoking.

China Lily

10-25-06, 10:14

Sasha Coffee, (but also China Lily and Rubber Nursey)
I hope you read respect from me to you, because above all you're person, and you MUST BE respected for this, and secondly you're girls and you are here in a "testosterone" world trying to chat with some men, explaining us your point of view.I don't know if Rubber Nursey and Sasha are the same, but I hope more people will respect sex workers and treat us just like any one else. In Hong Kong, people are trying to stop the government and police treating it like a crime. In China many girls cannot get protection from police. If a customer hits or robs a girl, she can't go to police. Some customers can be very bad, they take a girls handbag, money and mobile phone and then they threaten to call the police.

I hope you can repect us if you understand us. Don't worry about testerone, we sell sex beacause men have testerone - I don't care if a customer doesnt respect me as long as he pays me ok, but I do want one day the job to a respectable job.

I want to know how my boyfriend was thinking and then I see there are things that men think that I didn't know. Lazarro, do your friends respect sex workers? If you take us to a party, will you feel embarassed if your friend knows I am a sex worker?

China Lily

10-25-06, 11:01

When customers either men or women pay for 3somes,4 or moresomes, me and many of my girlfriends enjoy it and sometimes sex worker girls will go for free to a girlfriend and her husband or boyfriend. One customers wife found out about him paying for my friend, she was mad and said prostitutes were bad girls. Her hsuband told her to see what we are really like and said he wanted to bring girls home to see that it was different.

After we went and had sex all night with her and her husband she wanted to come with me on 3some with a customer. Her husband was not happy, but we took her. The customer was very happy to have her for half price. When we take her home her husband was very horny to think his wife had sold sex to a customer. She became crazy for sex and wanted to try with 2-3 guys. When she tried it she came many times and loved it.

In one week the customers wife changed from looking down on sex workers to liking us and is now a friend. I think they are happier now.

PeterPanCan

10-25-06, 18:22

Gathered from an existing website, it was related as follows :

"SACRED PROSTITUTION

There is abundant evidence to show that there was a time in the centuries before Christ when prostitution was held as a most sacred vocation. We learn of this practice from many sources. It appears that temples in a number of ancient cities of the East, in Babylonia, Nineveh, Corinth and throughout India, were erected for the worship of certain deities. This worship consisted of the prostitution of women. The women were consecrated to the support of the temple. They were chosen in much the same way as the modern woman enters a sacred church order. The returns from their vocation went to the support of the deity and the temple. The children born of such a union were in no way held in disgrace, but on the contrary, they appeared to have formed a separate and rather superior class. We are told that this practice did not interfere with a woman's opportunities for subsequent marriage. In India the practice was very general at one time. The women were called the "Women of the Idol." Richard Payne Knight speaks of a thousand sacred prostitutes living in each of the temples at Eryx and Corinth.

A custom which shows even more clearly that prostitution was held as a sacred duty to women was that in Babylonia every woman, of high rank or low, must at one time in her life prostitute herself to any stranger who offered money. In "Ancient Sex Worship" we read: "There was a temple in Babylonia where every female had to perform once in her life a (to us) strange act of religion, namely, prostitution with a stranger. The name of it was Bit-Shagatha, or 'The Temple,' the 'Place of Union.' " Moreover we learn that once a woman entered the temple for such a sacred act she could not leave until it was performed."

More can be read at :

http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/phil/psychology/TheSexWorshipAndSymbolismOfPrimitiveRaces/Chap1.html

Alex Rock

10-26-06, 16:12

Sasha, you've triggered a schizophrenic mess in my head. On the one hand, I agree that we should all be honest - it's best - i.e. WG should be honest and those that retire should not hide it from their husbands or lovers. Then on the other hand, we all have hidden things in our pasts.

Should a guy tell his wife if he has a one night stand or uses the services of sex workers? If he needs it, and she can't accept it, should he suppress it to keep his wife happy or fulfil his desire(needs) and protect his wife with some dishonesty.

Almost no guys I know can tell their girlfriends or wives they liked WG in the past tense, let alone the like them in the present tense. In my experience the exception is guys who have WG GF's and they start out up front saying they want to occasionaly and honestly have sex with other women.

I was happy for my ex WG friend that she's found a husband. Now I'm confused - there's no way she can tell him now. I can also see that she's deceiving him. .. I've no idea what to say..

Alex Rock

10-26-06, 16:17

Alex Rock

10-26-06, 16:22

For me, I am lucky, I learnt to market myself as an upmarket professional, not an upmarket professional working girl. I believe it is the attitude that makes people respect you not the job.

My lawyer once told me. Principals are expensive rubies and the poor have them.

It took me ages to realise the meaning of that statement. It just means that when you are professional and making money, no one cares how you make it, they care how you spend it. Only the poor people have time to judge how you make the money, and the only reason they sit on their morals as holier than thou is because they to damn lazy to go and earn money.

Anyway enough of my soap box. I am pleased and proud that you all consider my lowly opinions thought provoking.

Sasha, Your opinions are definitely not lowly - your perspectives are not what we usually run into and counter conventional wisdom. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your confident positioning yourself as "an upmarket professional, not an upmarket professional working girl". I'm sure others will agree.

China Lily

10-26-06, 18:18

China Lily, your story seems like a fantasy and almost unbelievable. How can a wife go from the shock of finding out her husband had slept with a WG to threesomes and even going on a joint customer call with you.?

I also thought you much prefer warm sex with your boyfriend, and seem surprised you say some girls like to go for threesomes for free with girlfriends and their BF's or husbands. Is it threesomes you like or going with your girlfriends and their men in a non client relationship?She was very angry and swearing mad when we got to her home, - it was not a fantasy - we thought she would fight and scream. After we started - and she was watching - she seemed to get excited. She had never done anything like that and was very angry calling her hsuband a sex crazy. I think for the first time in her life she experience so many new ways of sex, in a short time, she wanted to try everything. She was very excited when we with the customer - and even more crazy when she tried with 3 duck boys we got. She tell us she wanted to punish her hsuband, but she was excited too. Now she is the same person as before, but she doesnt look down on us any more and doesn't get mad at her husband. Some women come to KTV with their husbands or boyfriends and if his friends take girls, she will get used to the idea. Sometimes it is the opposite. A customer comes very often. His wife said she didn't ming because it was his work to take his customers out. One day she asked to come too, and said she would not mind him drinking with girls. He brought her and the next day she left him and they got divorced.

I love sex with my boyfriend but gentle and cuddy. Sometimes we go home with a girlfriend and if her boyfriend is there, we might talk as we take off make up and clean our face. If we feel sleepy and fall asleep, her boyfriend might wake up and we cuddle. If he starts sex, it feels different from customer and the boyfriend is not a customer. Only if we girls are together it is OK and it can feel good. If a customer pays for 2 girls ofr more, we try to go with a friend to feel safe. sometimes it is with a girl I might not like, but after the customer pays us to kiss and do it together we always like it. I don't know why. Some women like to pay Russian men sex workers, they are strong, and sometimes they like to try more than one - it can be a big turn on to have several guys at one time.

Alex Rock

10-29-06, 03:48

China Lily, Do you feel generally "looked down" on? Do you hide the fact you are a working girl from your non WG friends? You seem to be into sex with all kinds of people, not just your boyfriend, "duck boy", customers and group sex. Do you live a "normal" life?. What do you do when you are not having sex with somebody? Are your working girlfriends the same as you? You seem to be much like my ex girlfriend - she seemed to be obsessed with making money all the time rather than settling down.

China Lily

10-31-06, 05:51

I am like 2 different people. Some girlfriends are the same some are not. Every day when I start work I put on a mask and become a high class escort girl. I am never happy working unless a customer pays me a lot of money or buys me a big gift.

YES, I feel looked down on. I also look down on some customers. Most people are 2 faced. This is my job. I need to be tough and not care if people dont like me. Girls compete for customers all the time and some girls don't care what they do to get money or how people think of them. If a customer chooses another girl I feel bad and want to know why. Younger and fresh girls come all the time and low class girls take customers at lower prices. Girls sometimes fight for customers. With some customers, there is fear. You choose the best customers who will pay you but some won't pay first and then make you wait a long time, like you are begging. Sometimes a customer you know before has sex then says he will pay you next time, and wont pay. sometimes a customer says he wants you for 3 days and will pay a high price on the last day, then they make you chase for money. I have to be nice to customers and to act sexy or sophisticated, laugh at their jokes and make them feel good. I go to bars, discos and restaurants with customers even when I dont feel like it. He is in a party mood I am not.

With some escort and most regular customers or I don't have to compete and some are nice guys. I feel more like a high class escort person, I feel like I am better than other girls and I am very professional. It is easier to make money.

I think your girlfriend didn't feel safe unless she has money. That is why she worked all the time. You didn't make her feel safe. I need to feel safe so I always want to make money, every day. I work 7 days a week and only take holiday on national days. I can make normal months wages in one day, but when I get older I wont be able to get much money again so I must get it now. Even when I want to stay at home, in the evening all I think about is getting more money and go out.

Selling sex is my job. It is what I do. I usually do it and forget it when I go home. When customer pays for more than one girl, we always like it. My girlfriends all like 3 or 4somes. We don't look for it but if customers pay we always like it. If I see a movie with 3-4somes and pictures like Catalysts I always get horny.

When I go home I am another girl. I forget work. I want normal friends and a man who isn't paying me. I want to feel warm and safe and I want a baby. I hide work from my schoolfriends and family - except my brother. Whn I am a normal girl I don't think about sex and work and don't need it but I want the warm feeling of my boyfriend. I only pay for a duck boy for company like a pet not sex. I need somebody to care for me.

You can't be honest like Sasha if you want a boyfriend or husband. Men can't take it - no matter what you say - and I can't get it out of my mouth to tell my boyfriend. With my boyfriend I am a normal girl, I cant say those things to him or act like an escort with him. Next time I find a man I love, I will stop work and not tell him what I did before. My high class escort will go away and I will be a normal girl. Who cares how I got my money? Why does he need to know? I wont ask him about how many girls he had before.

Bango Cheito

10-31-06, 08:38

Honesty is always the best policy as a rule of thumb, BUT there are some people out there who just cannot handle a truth of that magnitude, even though it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that most guys want variety.

I think that it does have a lot to do with society and culture and what people REALLY want often has very little to do with what they want on the surface.

The monogamous nuclear family IMHO was constructed by humans, and has definitely served its purpose as a sort of glue holding many societies together but it is not necessarily the be-all and the end-all of human existence. I actually think in many ways the WG/client relationship is more in tune with nature than your typical contract of marriage! :P

I think a much greater % of the general population would be much more into swinging, kinky sex, open relationships, buying and selling sex etc. if it were not for worrying about 'what would people think'. I also think it is a beautiful thing when you can love and trust somebody enough to go BEYOND the petty jealousy and exclusivity of a monogamous relationship. In this context, having a WG as a lover would simply have positives and negatives just like any other profession. We all know that doctors and dentists, for example, have as high a danger of being exposed to communicable diseases as WGs do, but obviously no doctor's wife or husband runs around worrying about that on a daily basis!!

Lazzaro

10-31-06, 12:02

China Lily

What Sasha said about honesty is making me think. If it was you, and we met and I told you I am a working girl, would it stop you from letting us become a couple? I think most guys have 2 sides to themselves when it comes to working girls. One side likes us, the other side is they are afraid to admit they like us.
My working girl part of me is honest and proud, but it's not honest - I am acting and have a msk on my face. In my home part of me, I am afarid to be honest because I think you won't accept me as a girlfriend or wife.
In the truth (you can believe me or can't) I should understand you perfectly if you tell me you're a WG.
What it is important, for me, is mine respect for you and yours for me.
I really appreciate your honesty if you tell me about you, why I should not respect you?
Maybe (no: without maybe!!) you (as Sasha and RN) are more honest than the 90% of the women in the world, that "do it" sometimes or often, without "exchange of money", but only for get something in return and they never tell this to their boyfriends/husbands/lovers.

I hope you can repect us if you understand us. Don't worry about testerone, we sell sex beacause men have testerone - I don't care if a customer doesnt respect me as long as he pays me ok, but I do want one day the job to a respectable job.
I respect you.
Firstly because yiou are a person, a girl, and secondly because I understand you perfectly.
And thank you for your explanation.
You open totally to me, a windows on the world.
Your world.

I want to know how my boyfriend was thinking and then I see there are things that men think that I didn't know. Lazarro, do your friends respect sex workers? If you take us to a party, will you feel embarassed if your friend knows I am a sex worker?
I will be very proud to take you all to a party, and if a friend of mine knows about your job, this is him problem, not mine.
But I ensure you that my Friends (with the capital "F"), have the same respect for each sex workers.
At least could be simply the reason that next time they come to you, and if they don't respect you, they will not receive a good service (but it is not this the main reason they respect you).
Why should I embarassed? C'mon! what did you do of wrong? sex is the oldest activity on this world (not the prostitution).
Without sex, we cannot be here to discuss.
Now, that it is easier to have sex without too much risk (I mean: babies, STD, .....) and consequently we can appreciate sex for what it is, I really don't understand why people must think bad about you!!!!
For your boyfriend, I can ensure you that most of men connect sex strictly with love.
I mean: sex is equal to love; if you have sex with me, you love me; if you have sex with anyone other, you love anyone other than me.
Also: most of men, are scared on their attitude; telling him you're sex worker he thought that you could compare the attitudes of your clients with his attitudes; Men are very worryed about the dimension of their penis: it means that while he is having sex with you, he could think that your pleasure is fake and surely you have seen some penis "better" than his one.

Now I turn you the same question:
Even if you're a sex worker, and your boyfriend comes to you and say "this afternoon I went to a prostitute", what do you do? How you react? Could you understand that he was needing "only" of an half hour of sex irrespecting you?
The question is very subtle, I know.

In the end, I can tell you that the main basis for a "long term relation of love" is the reciprocal honesty and the reciprocal confidence.
None of the partners must rise some suspicion to the other.

love you

Lazzaro

10-31-06, 12:06

Lazzaro

10-31-06, 12:16

China Lily

11-01-06, 04:59

Men arent honest they like sex with other girls and don't tell their wife they like escorts or bargirls. They pretend they are "nice guys".

Honestly, can you take working girls to a family or company party and let everybody know we are working girls.? I don't really think so.

We are all different person in different situations. With your wife you are nice and faithful, but on business trip, after drinks or in a bar, you are horny and you want to screw sexy girls. All men need sex with different women but cant be honest about it to wife.

Working girls can be honest when we are working but not if we want to keep a guy. With customer we cant hide we sell sex and pretend we are normal girls. Some customers say it is easier to be honest than with their wife. Because they cant hide they buy sex from me and when they go away they don't worry what I think or if I will bother them. I sell time so if a customer pays for time to talk or have sex it's the same. It easier to have sex than to talk.

It is not easy for people to accept us as friend in their work or family lives if people know we are sex workers. People look down on sex workers. If women at parties see we are working girls, some talk about us behind our back and some come to ask questions to show off to people they are open minded. They pretend to be nice for other people to see but don't really want to become our friends. If they don't know what we do, they treat us different.

People are 2 faced. Women who screw around and have affairs do it for fun, they dont look down on those women, but because we sell sex because we want good money, they look down on us. Thats not honest.

China Lily

11-01-06, 05:05

Lazarro,

If my boyfriend says "this afternoon I paid for a girl", I wont be upset because it is normal. I know how working girl thinks. She just wants money, no feelings. He wants a different style or just let his heat come out. Its OK. I might ask what type she was or what he liked about her. But if he paid too high price or if he went with a girl I know I will be upset. I lose face big if a girlfriend knows my boyfriend goes to her behind my back. If girls think my boyfriend is doing it behind my back I am very upset. They think I don't keep him happy and they have a secret I dont know. All men want sex with different women. Its nature, we cant change it. I don't care about him having sex, but I do care if he has feelings.

Before we broke up, my boyfriend wasnt happy I was going on trip with customers. I asked 3 girlfriends to sleep with him on 3 nights after they finish work. They do me a favor, I don't lose face and he feels better. But, I wont let the same girl sleep with him 3 nights in case they get feelings. I was upset my exboyfriend had relationship with married woman before because he and she had strong feelings.

Its normal if my boyfriend wants sex with other girls

Alex Rock

11-01-06, 09:35

I wish I could be honest that I enjoy screwing other women but it doesn't threaten the relationship with my girlfriend or wife. The dilema is whether to keep a steady relationship one the one hand and a sex habit on the other hand or to try to keep both somehow.

My point in earlier posts was that if my girlfriend was China Lily or someone like her, she wouldn't mind me having sex with other girls as long as she doesn't lose face. That is worth a hell of a lot. Trouble is I have trouble with her doing the same thing.

Like Sasha said, if we are honest up front there is no burden, but then we somehow don't choose to settle down with people who tell us they are going to continue screwing other people whether for money or for fun.

China Lily hit a soft spot. I think you are right. We are hypocritical. We love working girls in part of our lives but we segment ourselves so in other segments we pretend we are upright "clean living" pillars of society.

S Times

11-01-06, 10:39

Being two faced is not just about working girls. Men go through the same thing about regular work. Men are different during working times and family times. The ones that say it's the same are very very rare. Ultimatly work is about money and survival, regardless of what type of work it is. Work is often calculated, manipulative and sequential, life is emotions and pretty random. Men go through very similar behaviorial changes during non work hours. Those that can't distinct the two sides of their life usually end up burning out fast. The separation mentally is healthy, although not always easy.

Sasha Coffee

11-01-06, 18:56

We sit here going on about the morality of prostitution and the harsh world that WGs live in.

I have learnt the most valuable lesson of the year over the last two weeks.

I have been helping a friend in their office with some admin work. Give me *****s any day. The office policitics are far worse than any brothel I have ever seen.

Brothels have a distinct pecking order sorted by length of time worked there, how good you are at your job.

An office has no such pecking order, the natural alpha females and males are trying desperately to take over and guess what they're are only 18 and just left school. with no experience nothing. Its hilarious and I have to say I pity the poor people that face this every day.

I have always had respect for working girls and the sex industry and how hard these girls work, but now I know why some people say we take the easy way out, by not working in an office we have bought into a fringe of society with a slighty tribal hierachey. The poor office worker is following society rules and boy do they suffer.

So to all you people that work the 9-5 grind. I take my hat off to you and wish the best with your long hard days. And remember its an unaknowledged Degree in Psychology you all earn.

Alex Rock

11-02-06, 04:06

Hi Sasha,

Didn't you enjoy the change ? - pecking orders and office politics and having to keep the boss happy? As a biologist friend now a senior exec says, everything he needed to understand corporate behaviour he learned studying baboon psychology. I still think you learn more psychology in a brothel you get paid more!

Why we respect working girls is their relative honesty compared to all the game playing and hypocrisy in offices.

Do you think you could you take a girl from the office to work in the brothel for 2 weeks to let her see the difference?

China Lily

11-02-06, 04:20

Sasha,

It's nice to see you back. I can't take company politics, people hide a dagger in their smile and talk behind your back. Escort and KTV girls compete all the time and some fight, but the fighting is open and simple. When we have evening snacks together and when we go home it is all finished.

China Lily

11-02-06, 04:22

We are all 2 faced. Would you date a working girl? Would you tell your work freinds what your girlfriend does?

Lazzaro

11-02-06, 12:11

China Lily,
Honestly, can you take working girls to a family or company party and let everybody know we are working girls.? I don't really think so.
I'm sorry you don't believe me.
I grew up in a very bad area in Milan, and even if my mother was a socalled "honest woman" she had lots of woman who were WG (some of them not regular) and daily come into my house to help her (she was a tailor which worked at home) and I know perfectly the "real" job of them, and I heard for all my life on my back, people talking about my mother, my house, etc......
I had already told you that if I should be in love with you and you tell me you're sex workers, I love you the same!
It is not easy for people to accept us as friend in their work or family lives if people know we are sex workers. People look down on sex workers. If women at parties see we are working girls, some talk about us behind our back and some come to ask questions to show off to people they are open minded. They pretend to be nice for other people to see but don't really want to become our friends. If they don't know what we do, they treat us different.
People are 2 faced. Women who screw around and have affairs do it for fun, they dont look down on those women, but because we sell sex because we want good money, they look down on us. Thats not honest..
I agree with you.
this is not honest, but this is life!
How many times when you want to buy something, you pay for this but they give you that?
How many times, our politicians tell us tons of word, promises, that, once elected, we discover that were "fried air"? Thats not honest.....
Everyday we are faced to these situation, not only regading sex.
Darling, sometimes we feel guitly more than people makes us guilty

Lazzaro

11-02-06, 12:13

Sasha Coffee

11-02-06, 18:50

I am curious to know if your boyfriend is European or Chinese.

I'm afraid I have to agree Lazarro its normal that he would want sex with lots of different girls all the time. Maybe sometimes 1 month but every day thats not normal. Thats him taking you for a fool.

But then its your relationship and every relationship makes their own rules and boundaries. Obviously your relationship works for you and you are both happy. Thats the important thing. Not many people can say they are truely happy in their relationships.

China Lily

11-03-06, 03:37

Sasha and Lazarro,

I give you the wrong picture. You are right, its not normal for a guy to want other women all the time. But it is OK once a while and on business trips.

My ex boyfriend was European. When he didnt know I was a working girl he didnt want sex with other girls. When he found out my job he cried. He was shocked some girlfriends who we saw often were escorts too.

He was screwed up and went crazy with different girl every night. Said wanted to understand if working girls like sex with customers and how we think. He said he wanted to understand how I think when I am with customer and if I really loved him when I have sex with customers.

We had weeks of breaking up and getting together. One day, I tell him everything. I told him I try to be honest about everything. He cried a lot and asked me lots of questions about what I do with customers and how I feel when I do it. I didn’t want to stop work because I get a lot of money, he didn’t want to break up because he love me.

One week, when we were back together, a regular customer pay me high price for a few girls to go to Shanghai. My boyfriend begged me not to go and said he couldn’t sleep all night if he thinks I am sleeping with other customers. That is why I asked 3 girlfriends to keep him company for 3 nights. It is not every day. They understand and help me and tell me he wanted them to hold him not have sex.

I tell him sex and love are different, but he said they cant be separate. I tell him I know most men like sex with different women, even when they have wife or girlfriend and I dont mind.

Most people look down on working girls but they are 2 faced. Working girls can be good wife or girlfriend but must not tell husband and hide what they did before or they must give up. I was a very good girlfriend and very nice to my boyfriend. Its not his fault he cant take it. Most guys cannot take it. When they know what you do they run away.

I loved my boyfriend and I lost him because I want money too much, I was not honest in the beginning and then I did not give up my work. If I was honest in the beginning he wouldn’t be my boyfriend. Next time I will stop work and not tell my boyfriend.

Why I think working girls are better girlfriend or wife is because we know men do want sex sometimes with other women and we dont get upset. You are right, its not normal if he wants it all the time.

Alex Rock

11-03-06, 05:39

i like to think i'm normal, but my behavior can be very different when i'm in different mental states. when i've been in a steady relationship, i've not had the need to look for frequent sex outside the relationship. it might happen quite unplanned when i meet a woman in a lounge in a hotel or i feel claustrophobic stuck in a hotel room and decide to break the boredom.

when i've run into relationship problems i've either turned to "abnormal" behvior - drink and women - lots of both - separately and together - for solace. when my long time gf broke up with me, i went on a screwing binge, mainly with non wg, but also with some wg. i was messed up in my head.

later, when i was settled with my gf who i didn't know was a wg, i was happy and didnt need to screw around. when i found out she was a wg, i got messed up in my head again and went on another screwing binge, this time mainly with wg. what was going on in my head was complex.

when i was trying to work it out with my wg ex-girlfriend she arranged me to have sex with some friends, to make a point. some were comfort screws with girlfriends who came over to stay a few nights, some were quick release screws , some were long and sensuos physical releases. my head was totally messed up. the sex was great but i couldn't handle the contradictions and schizophrenia i was feeling. the window on wg's lives was something i wished i hadn't opened. as i've moved on, some wg and ex wg are good friends and mutual confidants, but they hide their profession while among "polite company".

now, i think i'm more straightened out and normal again i consider gfe with somebody you love is the best. the thrill of sex with another woman from time to time is a kick but it's not as comforting as with your steady.

one of my colleagues has to have a different woman every night he's travelling, even during the day when he's in his home city. he almost never goes with the same girl twice. his wife (a hong kong woman) knows he does it - she caught him once, but accepts it as part of his make-up. i don't think that's normal, but it's their choice.

lazarro, when you are in a steady relationship, how often do you go outside for sex?.

sasha, would you go outside your steady relationship for fun or therapeutic sex? (not paid for) if you were in a steady relationship, would you be bothered if your guy occasionally dabbled? would you want to know or would you turn a blind eye?

Sasha Coffee

11-03-06, 06:50

An occassional dalliance is in human nature.

But if your occassional dalliances are becoming frequent that signals problems in the relationship.

What works for one person doesn't work for the next and relationships are individual, my point I suppose is are you really into the relationship or are you into single life. If you spend more time looking for sex outside the relationship then really you dont want the relationship. But then thats the opinion of one person (me). and it doesn't mean I judge other people relationships.

For me its the single life. Thats what I can handle. A relationship for me is restrictive, not sexually but professionally.

Sexually I can be faithful, but ask me to put my relationship before my profession and I struggle. Basically I suppose I'm a committed *****. So I have a strange view of things. In fact my view is probably wrong. But then its works for me. Who knows

Lazzaro

11-03-06, 12:19

If my boyfriend says "this afternoon I paid for a girl", I wont be upset because it is normal.
No, it is not normal.
Or it is not normal at the beginning.
If I love a girl, all the others girls are far some universa from my head.
I get what I need from her, I don't need more.
If I feel the needing to go to a sex worker, she's not in my mind like the beginning, or I don't love her so much, or she doesn't give me enough.
In any case think both the partner must talk a little to clarify the situation.
I don't wanna say that "if I love her, I don't have to go to a sex worker", but what I'm saying is "if I love her, I don't feel the needing of another girl"

He wants a different style or just let his heat come out. Its OK. I might ask what type she was or what he liked about her.
You see China? you too are interested on "what he liked about her", so it means you ask to yourself "how I could change to make the same she did with him" and here you are in a wrong way.
For that, I said: it is better talk a little among the partners, before one of them (he or you!) begin to feel the needing of something more.

But if he paid too high price or if he went with a girl I know I will be upset. I lose face big if a girlfriend knows my boyfriend goes to her behind my back. If girls think my boyfriend is doing it behind my back I am very upset.
Now I ask you what you asked me: will you take your boyfriend to a party plenty of working girls or to your family and let everybody know he is a boyfriend of a working girls? I think no. The risk is that your "colleagues" talk back you about him (poor little boy! He knows her job?) and so on; or, at least, if there is a bad girl, she could tells you "I know him! He comes to me once or twice per week!" where it is not true. And at this point? what you do?

All men want sex with different women.
I disagree. This needing arise in a man when he doesn't feel at 100% with his girlfriend (or if he's a single). I don't meant that all the girls must be slaved by their boyfriend to meke them happy. As often Sasha said:
it is a slight line, the borderline from "the allowed" and the "not allowed"

Its nature, we cant change it. I don't care about him having sex, but I do care if he has feelings
Maybe I know why you think so.
Costomer comes to you, pay you for sex, you give him sex, and the erst who cares?
You don't care about him, he doesn't care about you
So, you built your ideas that we are ONLY into sex and we don't care about all the other things.
It is not true.
Or, at least, it is not totally true

Before we broke up, my boyfriend wasnt happy I was going on trip with customers. I asked 3 girlfriends to sleep with him on 3 nights after they finish work. They do me a favor, I don't lose face and he feels better. But, I wont let the same girl sleep with him 3 nights in case they get feelings. I was upset my exboyfriend had relationship with married woman before because he and she had strong feelings.
My God! You send 3 different girls in his bed only for 3 night she should sleep alone?
He believed that you did want to do a "gift" to him.
Maybe he had sex 3 night in row, than he thought that f**k is easier than should think and also that when you weren't "in" he could f**k the same because you send in his bed someone.....

Its normal if my boyfriend wants sex with other girls
It is normal if you want (or believe) it is normal

these are my thoughts

Alex Rock

11-04-06, 03:00

Dear China Lily and Lazarro,

I’m sure we all know guys who would never go outside their marriage for sex, no matter what happens. It’s deep in their culture, religion and upbringing.
Some guys do it occasionally, and some guys don’t intend to but someone in a KTV pays for a girl for him or he’s not experienced and for the first time in his life an attractive sexy woman touches him, turns him on and offers to go back to his room, he might do it once.

Some guys are addicted to sex and some have an ID or side of them they indulge from time to time.

Chinese wg I know, have said the same as China Lily, that all guys need to have sexual release now and again. Maybe it’s because the guys you see all the time are not the faithful ones – it's a function of where you meet guys and why they are there.

In China old Taoist culture teaches that sex is a way to health to balance YIN and YANG. Men get YIN from women and women get YANG from men. Men should have sex with and “drink the “YIN”, (“caiyin”) from women for his heath, but he mustn’t release his sperm. But for women it’s good to get the “YANG” of a man’s sperm (“quyang”) . No joke an old Chinese book I just read says for health a man should drink the YIN from 10 women a day. Put that in the context of what China Lily said, in old China rich men would have several wives and concubines.

Also from my perspective, I think there is a culture in China and Asia today where men AND WOMEN entertain other men by taking them to KTV or night clubs and pay for girls to accompany them. Many guys who wouldn’t go looking for women get taken out and 1 or 2 very sexy women will sit with him all night. Many of these guys didn’t plan to end up min bed with a wg, but they do. China Lily, isn’t that the environment you work in?

China Lily, don’t you want a monogamous relationship? Could you be faithful to your guy and give up your job? Your posts hit sore spots for me because your experience with your bf are the mirror of my relationship with my ex gf.

Lazarro, have you never been with a girl for sex outside a steady relationship? I’m sure 90% of us have. Maybe that's why China Lily says it's normal.

China Lily

11-04-06, 03:17

Most men who love their wives don't go with working girls most of the time. But when it happens, it is not something to be upset about. If my guy does it now and again I dont worry.

Like Sasha says, I would care if he does it all the time.

If my guy goes with a girl, I am curious what he liked that time. Because guys like to try different types of girls, tall and thin, big breast, short and petitie, slu tty with heavy make up or sophisticated, model type, glamorous, student type, or clean type. We can make up and dress to be different type. Sometimes customers want glamourous girls we dress up different. That is what I will be curious if my guy has been with a girl.

It is very easy to turn a guy on and make him want sex with you. My job is to read customers to see what they want. But if a customer doesnt want to pay he doesnt get it. If I just want a guy for sex I can always get him easy. That is why I say all men want sex with other women - some time.

When I send my girlfriend to sleep with my boyfriend, it was because he was upset I was with customers to keep him comfort. If he has sex with my girlfriend, I dont care if he feels good as long as he loves me and stays with me when I am back home.

Bango Cheito

11-04-06, 10:39

I wasn't always honest in the past. Well, actually first I WAS honest, all through my life I was brutally honest about everything. This was up until maybe a year after I got married. That changed everything.

I thought I couldn't talk to my wife about what was going through my head, and looking back, I was probably right not to talk to her. I don't think she could have handled it. We were both raised to believe that a happy monogamous marriage was the best state one could ever be in. As the marriage went on, she felt that way more and more and I felt that way less and less, of course, there were lots of other problems too, some very severe. I lasted 3 1/2 years, and then I had my first WG experience ever. I saw WGs maybe on average 1-3 times per month from then till the end of the marriage, another 3/12 years later.

Anyways, after I separated from my wife, I decided to go back to being honest. I insisted on telling my new gf EVERYTHING about what I had done in the past, and to this day we insist on being 100% honest with each other. We tell each other things most human beings would never tell each other. This is why I am committed to her. But we have also decided that the relationship will be open to lots of experimenting. I personally don't have a problem with her having sex with other people, actually it turns me on. She is very jealous of me but also willing to try new things and deal with her jealousy. The honesty has made us grow very very close and we are starting to think like each other more and more!

My gf works on webcam sites, so she works in sex but doesn't let men touch her as a rule. I actually met her as a client, and we liked each other very much but neither one of us wanted to have any sort of a serious relationship at first because of how we met and the distance, but we get along so well eventually we said we had to give it a try. I thought for the first few months she was just trying to get money out of me, but she proved me wrong :) I also wanted to be free of relationships after the disaster of my marriage and she also was just coming out of a REAL bad marriage, but we somehow changed each others minds :)

She actually wants to quit her work much more than I want her to stop. I don't mind at all what she does, and I would accept even if she wanted to have sex with clients, it's a fantasy of mine actually, but she says she doesn't want to do that. She wants to quit because the work is very hard on her body and it's very exhausting, although the money is good. She is now expanding her business and having girls work for her on the websites so she doesn't have to work so hard.

Alex Rock

11-04-06, 14:04

An occassional dalliance is in human nature.

But if your occassional dalliances are becoming frequent that signals problems in the relationship......

......For me its the single life. Thats what I can handle. A relationship for me is restrictive, not sexually but professionally.

Sexually I can be faithful, but ask me to put my relationship before my profession and I struggle. Basically I suppose I'm a committed *****. So I have a strange view of things. In fact my view is probably wrong. But then its works for me. Who knows

Sasha, I agree with you about dalliances.

Do you never feel you want a steady relationship? Any relationship can be restrictive because we start to impose rules on our partners and ourselves rather than let them do what they would have done as single.

The ideal is we keep our freedom but enjoy the comfort of having someone care for us. You seem to enjoy your freedom, but don't you ever wake up and want someone there? Or someone to care for you when you're sick or just down?

I have a theory that guys can be more honest with sex workers than other women and therefore they could have a more relaxed relationship with one because they can be themselves. If a guy lived with you knowing what you do, and he let you feel free, wouldn't that be ideal? Don't you think you are the kind of person who's laid back and would be really easy for a guy to live with?

Alex Rock

11-04-06, 14:12

I think the totally honest approach is the only way.

But, are you sure your gf "doesn't let men touch her as a rule"? Sorry for saying this, but my ex gf who was a wg told me she only took tips and I found out lots of wg say the same to their bf. My ex gf was incredibly generous with me because she differentiated between clients and bf. Clients always had to pay or she had no time for them.

Assuming she's telling the truth, it's great you're so honest and I can imagine how relaxed it can be with someone like that.

I can assume you wouldn't mind if she'd been a wg but gave up, but assuming she does actually let men touch her now would it bother you? (present tense).

Victoria007

11-04-06, 15:25

Sasha Coffee

11-04-06, 19:38

Then men on this site would be able to tell you what he was thinking.

For me I think men use sex workers for different reasons.

Men having an amazing ability to differeniate between sex and emotion. They are totally able to have sex and not give a flying hoot about the girl they having sex with. So I think that for men sex with a prostitute is like masturbation. its just with a partner instead of your hand. I've seen it described on this site as vagina aided masturbation.

And sadly men are not good monogamy. Its something in the make up. In fact there is a theory that says we are not meant to be monogamous at all, and that marriage was created by the church to control masses. (very plausible I think). The theory says that women look for two different things when they are looking for a father for children. When they are looking for a sperm donor they look for the genetically perfect male (in their eyes), they will get pregnant to this man but then the hunt for the provider is on. We either try to change out genetically perfect sperm donor into a provider or we accept that he isn't and find another provider. Men on the other hand are in charge with populating as many females of the species to keep the human race going. Really its just like the animal kingdom. They reckon at the moment 25% of children are not fathered by the man who believes that he is the father. Scarey thought.

You are right, alot of men do treat it like a fun sport, how many working girls can I screw. For some men it is their entire sex life because they are unable to attract women normally.

For the man who is treating it like a fun sport, he is normally married, very happy with his wife, he generally has respect for her and has no intention of breaking up his relationship. There fore the working girl becomes his alternate sex life. Its someone he can screw, pay and forget. Its a win win situation, he gets to have a quick screw and she gets money, neither person has been hurt and their is no commitment involved. He has the security of knowing that unless he tells his wife, she won't. Its viewed as far safer (both STD and emotionally) he doesn't have to hide an affair (which would indicates emotional attachment) and he's got to chase a bit of tail, not had to put in any effort.

then the man who Prostitutes are his sex life, we'll leave that for lesson number 2.

As a working girl I sometimes wonder what my clients wives would be like, but to be totally truthful with you Victoria, most working girls don't consider a clients wife at all, in fact we don't even ask if they are married. And for those clients that do tell you, its not exactly the time or place you want to discuss their wife, and neither should they.

As for feeling that your husband is dirty and you won't let him touch you. Its time you made an informed decision. And asked some sensible questions.
1 Did he use condoms
2 Did he keep himself away from prostitues with drug habits.

I don't know where in the world you are, but the general rule of thumb in New Zealand is that working girls get checked every 6-12 weeks, sooner if you have had a condom break. If your husband has been selective in the WG's he's seen and steered clear of the Drug users his chances of being Dirty as you put it will be very minimal.

I was being presumuptious and explaining the health dirty issues for you, if you mean you think he's emotionally dirty thats another issue that only you can address.

I have a t-shit Victoria that has a slogan on it you might find interesting.

"Prostitution is the rent of a body, Marriage is the sale"

Rock Dog

11-04-06, 19:43

Dear Victoria,

First, I just want to say I'm sorry that you're feeling bad about what happened. I doubt that your husband set out to hurt your feelings or anything like that.

From your comments, it seems like you're already starting to gain some insights into the whole scene.

You are right, it's not an activity for low-class losers. Sure some guys go that route because they have no other alternative. But remember, sex is an expensive hobby to indulge in. Not that many guys can afford this kind of fun. My guess is that the more money a guy makes, the more likely he is to partake of sex-for-pay.

Guys thrive on variety! That's really all there is to it. There isn't any strong connection between sex and love.... not for men. Most women know this anyways. For us, sex is fun. The more sex, the better..... and if we can manage to get it from dozens of different women that we don't even know, that's the best, most exciting sex there is.

Women can be really hard to understand sometimes. But, when it comes to the way men look at sex, women can be kind of clueless.

Rock

George90

11-04-06, 23:24

It would only take one night in a bar and someone would tell you who I was anyway. In a small place like christchurch there are no secrets.

Hello Sasha,

I have been following the Morality of Prostitution thread for some time. I noticed that you sometimes refer to Christ Church in your posts.

I have been very curious and so now I am asking. I tried to send you a PM, but your profile has that feature turned off.

Are you referring to Christ Church in Barbados? Are you Barbadian? Barbados does not get glowing recommendations as a destination for "action". How are you able to get enough clients to make the profession worthwhile?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

George90

11-04-06, 23:44

Every so often, journalists, law enforcement, feminists, etc. troll on these forums looking for ammunition to use against mongers in particular and men in general. I do not know if you are one of those. However, I am not accepting your post at face value.

If you are sincere, post more details about your husband's trysts. In which cities did he use WGs? Did he call escorts to his hotel? Pick up streetwalkers? Go to strip clubs and use the on-site facilities? In which months and years did he make these trips?

Tell us more about what he said to you. What type of WGs does he like to use? i.e. What race/ethnivity is preferred? What height/weight is preferred? What age range is preferred? What sexual acts does he do with them that he doesn't do with you? Does he do role-playing with the WGs?

I have worked with men like you husband, (to the extent you have described him). My limited comments to you are that men like your husband use prostitutes because they can. They like having control and power over their own sex lives while their wives do not over theirs. They like having control and power over the prostitute, by virtue of having paid her money, and thus be able to demand acts of her that a woman might not otherwise do for him if she was not being paid. They like having control and power over others by virtue of having secret information, ie. by being able to use prostitutes on company time and company money with no one finding out.

This cannot be generalized to all men because all men are not like your husband. In the end, the only person who can truly answer your questions is your husband. No one here can read his mind.

Sasha Coffee

11-05-06, 00:35

Sorry sweet I do not refer to Christ church Barbadoes.

I refer to Christchurch, New Zealand, you know the country way down at the bottom of the earth that people confuse with Australia, and when you watch Fox or CNN they don't even bother putting us on the map. Hehehehe.

Not that we particulary mind, but it is kind of ignorant. to hold yourself up as the News broadcaster of the world but not even be able to get your world map right. I know we are a small country but we ain't that small.

Christchurch is the 3rd largest city of New Zealand with a population of about 300,000. Approximately 400 working girls and 12 brothels, not to mention countless private escorts and a street walker population all included in that 400.

New Zealand in divided into 3 islands being the North Island, South Island and Steward Island. With a total population of 4 million. My little city Christchurch is the largest city in the South Island and is on the East Coast.

There we go a lesson in geography. Hope that answers the question

Rock Dog

11-05-06, 00:47

George90,

You know, that last little comment Victoria made about sex being "a fun sport" kind of got me thinking. I'm thinking somethings fishy here.

A woman finds out her hubby's up to tricks (literally)... so she signs up for an ISG membership and starts posting? Like I said, fishy.

Even if it's all true, what now? He got caught enjoying another woman's pleasures. She wasn't his girlfriend, there's no indication he was planning to leave Victoria for her. So now she feels bad.....and of course it's all his fault. Next comes retaliation and revenge in the form of a divorce. Then the lawyers get involved, the fighting, the hatred and the lasting bitterness where no one comes out any kind of winner.

Here's a suggestion..... look at this as an opportunity! Roll with it. He likes a little casual fun on the side, why can't you do the same? If you're even halfway still attractive, there'll be lot's of guys out there eager to let you sample them. He's been doing the same thing, so he won't have much cause for complaint (assuming this story is real, and you're not some kind of feminist, anti-sexual media mole).

Rock

Alex Rock

11-05-06, 02:25

I think you can browse the threads in this forum to see how guys think about it.

I don't know if this is the place to look for counselling, but if you want to try to keep your marriage, you can talk it through with you husband to understand him, not the people on this forum - and not get emotional or upset when he tells you anything, you might not find it so bad.

When I've used escorts for sex, it's been for a thrill that night, an escape, that doesn't affect work or your marriage. In my case, If I was in a good relationship, I still might use escorts occasionally. If I was in a bad relationship or screwed up, I can use multiple sex partners the same way I'd use booze.

Working girls can be nice compassionate women. Some might be obvious and others not so. You might not know who they are. From the little I know, their relationship with their clients is just business - no more - they sell their time - they are like psychiatrists or counsellors, they charge for their time and don't have friendships outside their work.

As for your husband being dirty. I don't think you mean physically, since I'm sure he used condoms and wouldn't have exchanged bodily fluids. I think you mean dirty in other ways. He's no different, you've just learned something about men. At times we have a strong interest in sex, porn and sexy women. We hate it if women treat our interest in sex as something dirty. We hate it if we have to suppress it - then it comes out when we get a chance away from home.

China Lily

11-05-06, 02:46

Do not worry about it. Don't think about what he does when he is not with you. Only think about the time he is with you and enjoy it. It is normal for men to go with working girls sometimes.

Working girls are many different type. Some are poor countryside girls, some are very sophisticated women or university students. We sell sex to men and then forget about it. I never ask a man if he has a wife, it doesn't matter. Many of my regular customers seem to want to go for dinner or have sex with a sexy glamourous woman who is different from women in his normal life. He is buying exciting time.

Many customers are rich businessmen or big bosses. Sometimes men working for big companies bring their bosses to a KTV to let them choose sexy girls. They might not want their friends to know they take a girl back to their room so they call you to go later when their company people cant see them.

Almost every man wants to have sex with different women. It is normal so dont get upset about it. You cant change it

Alex Rock

11-05-06, 03:05

george90,
a woman finds out her hubby's up to tricks (literally)... so she signs up for an isg membership and starts posting? like i said, fishy.
rock
to one rock from another. for what it's worth i started really chatting on this forum only after i found out my girlfriend was an escort. i was screwed up and wanted to understand what was going on peoples heads, including my own. quite a few guys and a few girls here really helped me see things more clearly.

if there are any media moles browsing - good for them! they'll hopefully change their views. 10% will never change, 10% agree the profession should be legalized and girls protected, let the 80% majority learn more and become more liberal.!

as to your advice to victoria - to look at this as an opportunity - i agree - it's an opportunity to know herself and other people better and maybe get a better relationship with her husband. it may or may not help her if she goes out and has a revenge f**k.

having been used by married women for revenge f**ks before, i can say i've seen it can be therapeutic if she can do it and let it go, but on the other hand it can screw some women up even more and the marriage won't have a chance. it's happened to women i know and buddies of mine when they've been caught. a revenge screw can help make things even.

Piper1

11-05-06, 08:43

I am trying to understand why my husband of seven years has been using escort services on business trips.Like a few others, I'm not convinced that Victoria007's post is genuine (for various reasons). I'll wait to see if it's a serious question/dialogue vs. a troll, before posting my POV. And we can only give our own views - everyone has their own reasons for some paid fun on the side.

George90

11-05-06, 16:44

Sorry sweet I do not refer to Christ church Barbadoes.
I refer to Christchurch, New Zealand,

Thank you.

Victoria007

11-05-06, 17:01

I can assure you I’m not a reporter or police woman, but I am a bit of a feminist. I don't know why anyone should think I might be.

I am struggling to understand my husbands behaviour and what you've said helps. My friends all say he is a bastard and I should dump him and take him to the cleaners. My fairy tale's been shattered, but intellectually Im beginning to realize that lots of married men go with other women just for sex. Didn't think it would happen to me.

George90, I don't know why the gory details should matter, but for what it is worth, we live in Manchester, England. My husband travels to London, Europe and America. After he made me suspicious by not answering my calls, I called all the numbers on his last hotels bills from London and New York. He’d called escort agencies in both cities, then I found escort sites on his laptop browser History. He denied everything, of course, told lies after lies and made up stories until I threatened to go to his company for copies of more hotel bills. He gave in and admitted it but insisted he only went with top class girls and only for dinner and drinks. I wanted all the details and managed to drag some out little by little. The girl he said he was with that night was a Polish interpreter he said was studying for a Ph.D. In the end he admitted having sex with her. Three other girls he’s admitted to, the way he describes them, all sound like some tall models or super classy women. It makes me feel inferior. I can’t stand to think he’s been comparing their breasts, hair, skin, legs or more with me. I try to understand what I did wrong and how he could pay so much for them.

All my friends and my mum tell me I should leave him, but he’s begging me to forgive him. He says it meant nothing. I’ve surfed lots of websites for advice and insights, trying to understand why men do it and what women do. This site made me sick at first, thinking Rick could be one of the men swapping stories, but some posts helped me look at it differently. I’ve thought about getting revenge but all I can talk about is myself. I can’t joke or act flirty and men just don't attract me while I’m so upset.

Thank you Sasha. I wish I could talk it through with someone like you. Thank you Alex and Rock.

Piper1

11-05-06, 18:33

...My friends all say he is a bastard ... the way he describes [the escorts], all sound like some tall models or super classy women. It makes me feel inferior.Victoria, yes, he is a bastard - because he makes me feel inferior also. I rarely get super classy super-model type girls!

You threatened to go to his workplace - now I believe your post is genuine. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned ...

All joking aside, I think you already know the answer to your questions. My short answer is that you shouldn't let it ruin your marriage (especially of you have kids).

As for why I play with prostitutes: varying reasons at varying times. The three main reasons are sex, sex, and sex. Never love or deep affection. Often for fun company when my wife's not around.

My wife and I are crazy about each other, and she knows I play around. She's not happy about it, but she knows it happens and shrugs it off as a "male weakness" thing, and is generally fine about it. We also have some rules (short-time only, never see the same girl more than once, and always safe sex).

As Sporadic pointed out, there is also an element of humiliaton, which is probably a main factor in your being upset. Just imagine if your mum and friends didn't know about it. I'm sure it would be much easier to forgive him.

There's a lot more I could say, but some of the posters here have made similar points, and I'm sure you've read just about everything on the matter.

Sasha Coffee

11-05-06, 19:02

I have one word for you

DIGNITY

Do not go to his work place, do not go to his friends, his sports clubs or anything else. If there is one thing you should of learnt being in this website is that you will come across another man doing the same thing.

If you want your marriage to work, you need to help him make it work.

I will give you some serious advice.

When a man sees a woman a naked, he is going I see a woman naked I see a woman naked. When he sees a supermodel naked he gos Oh my god I see a woman naked I see a woman naked.

A naked body is a naked body, so some of us are put together better. Obviously your husband is in not to bad shape either, and you are feeling insecure because you know he can pick up nice woman.

So What does this tell you. It says smarten up, put on your make up and a dress and seduce the man. Stop lying around crying, be a strong feminist type (that you say you are) and take control. You don't need to leave him you need to make him interested.

Rock Dog

11-05-06, 19:04

Victoria,

You made the following comment in your last post: "I try to understand what I did wrong and how he could pay so much for them."

Yes, he paid them..... with money. But money really isn't the most important thing in life is it? There are other ways of demonstrating value.

Your husband married you. Even after being with those "classy-looking" model types, he still doesn't want to leave you (and I'm sure it's not just bc he's afraid you'll take him to the cleaners). THAT says a lot. To me, it says he finds a value in you that can't be expressed in monetary terms.

It takes a lot to be married to someone for 7 years. I've only been married myself for less than 2, but it takes a lot of determination sometimes. Think of it this way..... he may have spent a few pounds (or dollars or whatever) on some girls, but he's spent 7 years of his life on you.

This isn't the most eloquently written post, but I'm sure you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

Rock

Sasha Coffee

11-05-06, 19:13

I sit here reading the posts that you have put to help out Victoria and I have to giggle.

If you were China, Rubber or myself a question it would be a straight up honest question. Said just like you were asking another man.

With Victoria your soft sides are coming out and you feel sorry for her. You all surprise me, I thought you would of had more empathy for husband. Since you could be in the same boat anyday.

Well I am both proud of you all for being so thoughtful in your responses to her and surprised by your understanding. Perhaps us WGs have taught you something about woman. Hahahaha.

And one last piece of advice to Victoria. Trust me when I say to you its unlikely that those girls even remember your husband. So you can be quite secure its not an ongoing thing.

Sorry Victoria thats my last bit of advice on the subject for you. I hate pity parties. The choices are all yours and you are the only person who can make them. Although I will answer any questions regarding the profession for you.

Piper1

11-05-06, 19:38

Sasha - nicely said. No pity party necessary. I hope I didn't come across as too flippant in my reply to Victoria, but as a regular player I don't take this hobby seriously, and thankfully the working girls don't usually take the customers too seriously either. They've seen and heard everything from men, and do feel pity for us poor weak creatures. :)

WGs and regular players are a different breed to your usual conservative John Doe or Christian Preacher type (the latter get much more sex than us ISG members), so maybe ISG members' values do not match those of a recently scorned woman. If Victoria is a genuine poster, I wonder if her opinions will change after reading this biased board.

BTW Sasha - since you're in New Zealand, please do me a favour. Find that guy (his name escapes me) who says he is grateful for the addictions of doped-out street junky WGs in Auckland, and kick his butt. Hard.

PS - nice pics. I love the occasional game of pool! ;)

Rock Dog

11-05-06, 21:51

Alex Rock, there was one other thing you mentioned. It had something to do with the idea of a "revenge f*ck".

That wasn't what I was talking about when I mentioned that Victoria could see the situation as an opportunity. Why does it have to be about revenge? It's the same, tired old way of thinking. Someone did something that made me feel bad, now I have to get back at them. The only thing you get from revenge and retaliation is more of the same.

The real opportunity is for Victoria and her husband to keep their marriage intact while giving themselves the freedom to experience sex with other partners. No more guilt, no more secrecy or hurt feelings. It's the opportunity to turn this into a win-win situation.

Not many guys would be too keen on this idea. For one, they tend to be pretty selfish when it comes to sex..... as in "It's OK if it's me screwing around, but not her". For another thing, they tend to be pretty insecure..... as in " She might leave me for another guy if ge's a better lover with a big dick".

Any guy that wants to have the benefits of extramarital sex partners should be willing to give the woman the same benefit. If he's not, he shouldn't be doing it himself.

Comments?

Rock

ps. For anyone who might be wondering about me, my wife admitted to being unfaithful on one occasion. My reaction? I asked her why.... and then told her I would forgive her but I wouldn't forget. I enjoy the occasional visit to a local massage parlor, so getting all indignant over her actions would have made me a real hypocrite.

Sasha Coffee

11-06-06, 00:10

I don't mind an occassional game of pool either as you are obviously now aware, although I must confess that I'm not much good.

As for the gentleman in Auckland that is thankful for doped out WGs. I'm sure he is thankful for their desperation. but also an old cliche pops to mind when thinking of this service.

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

As for the pity party, that is my theory on most things, if you don't like the way your life is take responsibility get motivated and change it. I think to many wives take their husbands for granted (part of the spoilt western culture), but what do I know, I'm not a wife, nor do I want to be.

China Lily

11-06-06, 01:59

A woman doesnt have to do anything wrong for her husband or boyfriend to go with another woman. Dont blame yourself or pity yourself about something very common.

You can try to make you and your husband happier. Women can act with different masks and make themselves sexy and change the way they look. They can do their hair different, get extensions, wear sexy clothes, make up, lashes and walk or look at guys differently. Many wives stop looking sexy or acting sexy not just at home but outside too. I think men like their wives to act like different women not always act like the same woman.

When some girlfriends start as KTV or escort girl, they dont know how to act. We lend them clothes and teach them make up. Ordinary girls can look attractive if they want to be. You can look different, act different and have fun doing it. Maybe ask your husband what type he fantacises and ask him to treat you like an escort for fun.

Feeling blame is no good. Dont think about him thinking about escort girls. They forget customers quickly and customers forget the girls. I hope you can make this a chance to have more open relationship with your husband.

Alex Rock

11-06-06, 02:33

With Victoria your soft sides are coming out and you feel sorry for her. You all surprise me, I thought you would of had more empathy for husband. Since you could be in the same boat anyday.
Sasha, I think we feel empathy for both ot them. Victoria's found out her husband does what lots of guys do, and her husband has been caught doing something we all do.

I believe if Victoria understood how we guys think, she wouldn't be anywhere near so upset. Its good for us all - Victoria and us guys - to see how you, RN and China Lily think.

I bet Victoria's husband is feeling totally shit - his trists were just some fun while he was away from home - indulging his needs - He never intended to do anything to hurt his family. Now he risks losing his wife and having her tell everyone. The way to help him is for us to tell Victoria what we think and feel before, during and after being with sex workers.

If Victoria could spend time with someone like you, I bet she and her husband would be better off.

George90

11-06-06, 02:35

George90, I don't know why the gory details should matter, ...

The gory details matter because they lend credibility to your story. And I have a request for more. What are your ages and how many children to do the two of you have? Why did you marry him? Didn't you notice things about your husband when you were dating (red flags) that might make you regret marrying him?

I ask those questions because it is clear from your story that your husband does not respect. For me, love is based on respect. If there is no respect, there can be no love. So I will further say that your husband doesn't love you. He lied to you as much as he could to get away with his infidelity. He still has not come clean because he has lied to and stolen from his employer. I am sure your husband will continue to see prostitutes, but from now on just hide it from you better.

I am sure your husband has disrespected you in other ways than being unfaithful. Why you are still with him is a mystery to your family. If you are hell bent on staying with your husband, at least get marital counseling. If he refuses to go, divorce him immediately.

Sasha has advised that you not go to his employer. I advise you to speak with a lawyer. Your husband has committed a crime against his employer since he used company funds to pay for the prostitutes. If you know about it (and you do) but do not report it, you can liable as an accessory after the fact. In that event you can be forced to pay damages to your husband's employer if they find out through an audit of their travel expenses. They can very easily call the same numbers you did.

Alex Rock

11-06-06, 02:51

Rock Dog,

I misunderstood you - and I agree it is an opportunity for Victoria or anyone in that situation to turn this into a win-win situation.

However, I do know women who find our (OR SUSPECT) their husband has been fooling around or even giving strong signals to another woman do sometimes get it out of their system by screwing almost any guy they lay their hands on. Maybe it's not revenge, but it happens. A Chinese girl married to an American took me to her hotel room to see her art. Up there, it was clear she just wanted to f**k - she said because her husband had been with an old girlfriend and she wanted to get revenge. I didn't do it with her. A Brazilian woman I know found out her husband was sleeping with another woman - she smashed the womans car and went and found herself a young guy in a Hagen Daz. She said she felt much better after screwing the lucky guys brains out.

One issue is men's egos. We like to "score" and tell guys, whereas when a woman sleeps with a guy, she might feel a little shame and hide it. We hate it if a guy scores with our women. Women seem to be more into the emotional side and are more concerned if their guy develops emotions.

China Lily is much more concerned about the affair her ex bf had with a married woman than him having sex with working girls. That's why she was asking how married women in affairs feel.

That's why Victoria's husbands trists don't threaten the marriage. If I were Victoria, I'd be glad he hadn't had an affair with emotional ties.

George90

11-06-06, 03:14

Can you help me? I am trying to understand why my husband of seven years has been using escort services on business trips. He told me it was just sex and meant nothing and all men do it from time to time. I want to understand how men think when they go with prostitutes and what do the girls think of the men and their wives.

I went back to read Victoria's original post. I think I have a totally different attitude towards this than most of the other posters.

For me, infidelity is a very personal and intimate issue between the married couple only. What other married couples do or do not do in their marriage has no bearing on what I and my wife (if I was married) do or do not do in our marriage. The excuse that all men do it from time to time is complete bull, because Victoria is not married to all men, she is married to one man, her husband. What is relevant, is what he, and only he, does or doesn't do.

Likewise, it is irrelevant what men in general think when they go to prostitutes. The only relevent thing is what Victoria's husband thinks when he goes to prostitutes. Victoria can find general information about pro action on this board, but I seriously doubt that it will provide any satisying answers for her. If anything, it might only raise more questions for her as she gets a better understanding of the "market". Questions that only her husband can answer.

I think the consolation that some posters gave about it being normal for men to want variety in their sex partners and to use prostitutes is misplaced. What is normal or abnormal is ONLY what the two married people have decided will be normal or abnormal in their relationship. If Victoria and her husband decided that monogamy will normal for them and infidelity abnormal, then his going to prostitutes is abnormal. It doesn't matter what other men do or what other people think.

The real shame is that Victoria seems to blame herself, that she did something wrong. She did nothing wrong, if she was reasonably available to her husband and did all the things that they decided is normal for them to do. If he wants to do other things and didn't talk to Victoria about it, then he is at fault. If he prefers a prostitute to (say) phone sex with Victoria when he is travelling, then he is at fault. He is at fault for lying. He is at fault for stealing. From the limited information we have and my experience with similiar men, the only mistake Victoria made was marrying this guy in the first place.

In short, I don't think it is constructive to make excuses for Victoria's husband. We can only say why we go to prostitutes, not why he does.

Sasha Coffee

11-06-06, 04:21

Victoria doesn't say that her husband used the company c/c to pay for his little bit of fun. She says she was going to go to the company for copies of his hotel bill.

I doubt that he has charged his female to his company c/c. what Victorias husband is trying to avoid is her marching into his office and making him look like a man that can't control his woman in front of his boss. This is a normal male reaction. On top of that, I doubt any company would allow a spouse to see copies of their accounts even if they do relate to her husband.

However if he is charging his play toys to the company I agree he is in a very sticky situation. I would guess though he's probably just trying to save his reputation in the office.

i know I wouldn't want anyone coming into my work place and bringing personal issues to air in front of my collegues. This is most unprofessional. In fact I would just about admit to anything to stop that.

I do feel very sorry for Victoria and wish her the best in overcoming this problem. But every relationship has secrets some are not big secrets some are in the end, blame is always a dangerous game and never got anyone anywhere.

You say in your post that Victoria obviously made herself available to her husband I challenge that comment, available when and how often is a point to be debated by husband and wife, Victorias idea of available could be 1 week, her husbands idea might be daily. Who knows. Just wanted to point it out. No offence intended.

Victoria007

11-06-06, 07:34

I don't want pity. Thanks, that will get me nowhere. I want to understand how men and working girls think and feel. I want to try to make my marriage work and will make this an opportunity to get things out in the open.

George90. My husband didn?t charge any escort services to his hotel. All he did was make calls to agencies from his room. I don't know why you need details to verify anything. I'm 31 he's 34, we've got no kids, I had no suspicion of anything until he wouldn't take my calls some evenings. I've been through accusing him of disrespecting me, being unfaithful, cheating, and everything else, but he begged me to give him a chance. I know I need to work this out and my relationship with my husband has nothing to do with other people?s relationships with each other. Before I can come to trying to trust him again, I simply want to understand how people think. If you have time you can help me.

I want to ask Sasha, Rubber and China Lily ? Is there something different men look for with sex from you, that they don?t get from their wives, or is it just because you are different women? Do some men talk about their wives to you and if they do what kind of things do they talk about? Do you ever get feelings for your clients and do they ever get feelings for you? From your perspectives, do you think I should be upset that it happened before and do you think I should tell him no more and try to trust him, or should I try to accept it and turn a blind eye? If it was YOU would you accept it if your husband went with escorts when he was on business trips. Would you be upset and how would you talk to him about it? I know China Lily wouldn?t mind. As working girls, assuming I stay with him, what advice can you give me to make my husband and me happier?

May I ask you men, Rock, George, Alex, Piper1 and others ? Do you get feelings for escorts? Is sex with them better than with your wife? What is it that turns you on so much? Is it that woman or is it novelty? How is it different? After sex with an escort how do you feel? Do you feel affectionate, guilty or high? What can a wife do so a husband doesn't feel the need to wonder? From a guy's perspective, would you advise I allow him to continue with my knowledge or just turn a blind eye?

Sporadic

11-06-06, 10:12

What is normal or abnormal is ONLY what the two married people have decided will be normal or abnormal in their relationship.
Normally, I would agree, or not agree with you, but that would require us defining what is normal, or abnormal in our normal situation...zzzzzzzzz

Sorry! nodded off there. ;)

Petemcc

11-06-06, 10:53

Ladies. Have any of you read the latest postings on the 'Safe sex in Thailand' thread, in particular the comments by Opebo ( or similar name) ?

I know Sid has asked that the whole thread be deleted, but I personally would like to see comments from professionals about what this man does. I suspect I already know the answers you will give, and also that he doesn't care, but anyway, I'll leave it up to you.
Thanks

Pete

Petemcc

11-06-06, 11:32

A few things to start with:
I used to live and work in Manchester.
What I am going to say is just my POV
You have had some pretty wise replies so far I think.

I could go into a long-winded account of why men stray, why it is probably genetic, and why society and culture has developed over the years, at least in the west, to dictate that men remain monogomous.

Here's my story: I've been with my wife for 24 years, married 20 of those. We have no kids, she's trim, sexy, puts out (for me only)- maybe a bit too much for me, and loves me to death. I love her too.
However I recently paid a visit to Thailand and China, primarily for a holiday, secondly to have sex with pretty young women.
Why? I have excuses, personal ones, losing a job, a bit of an identity crisis, boredom, curiosity- but they are my excuses. I'll tell you what, I came back from those holidays a better person.
I told my wife what I did, and sure, at first she was a wee bit overawed, even though she knew I would do it, but she got to accept it. Why is her story, but understand this, for whatever time in a man's life he is with a different women- someone he pays for, he can be anyone he wants. He can be the best lover, the hardest lover, the most passionate lover, the most sexy man, the most interesting man- I can go on. The majority of prostitutes are professionals who fulfill a fantascy. I needed to pretend that I wasn't just a greying 42 year old has been. I needed someone to tell me, someone young and pretty that is, that I was handsome, virile, the best! All lies, but sometimes hearing those lies makes you feel good.

I have a friend in work, a big guy, recently divorced, not through infidelity, but because of life. He is feeling like the lowest, ugliest piece of dirt in Australia. His confidence is rock bottom, he believes he is a non-sexual being. I spoke to him about Thailand, and about what a confidence boost it would be for him to go there and meet a few young Thai girls who would make him feel like a million dollars. He doesn't like flying, so he visited a local girl. the smile on his face was huge. Yeah, he's no longer married. He's paying 700 dollars a fortnight from a 1400 dollar/ fortnight wage. He's stressed, he needed an outlet, and he got one.

I have no intention whatsoever of leaving my wife of 20 years, with all we have for a prostitute. That's like leaving your wife for a lawyer ( oops sorry girls, that was low!). A WG is a service professional. Maybe your husband was bored, lonley, scared, had a bit of an injection of adrenaline, or testosterone because of something, maybe he just fancied a discreet fuck outside marriage- excitement. I don't know. But I do know this. The chances of forming an emotional attachment to a prostitute, especially in another city, are very, very slim. A work collegue, the girl down the street, a friend- more chance.
Sex with a WG read needs it and wants no attachment.
Is there something lacking- probably not.
Should you ditch your marriage and life just because he wants to have sex with someone else? Your choice.
It's biology, and society cannot stop biology. If it were so, men would only get aroused with their spouse.

Some of my words may sound a bit harsh, and if so I am sorry. At the end of the day, it's only sex, it's not commitment, children, a mortgage and the rest. Try to put it into perspective please and you may be able to reconcile it better. Society doesn't help, I know, but think objectively, not how you are told to think by others who really haven't a clue about real life ( and I don't mean board members who have given you some fantastic advice).
The best of luck.

Pete

Lazzaro

11-06-06, 15:04

Lazarro, have you never been with a girl for sex outside a steady relationship? I’m sure 90% of us have. Maybe that's why China Lily says it's normal.
Of course!
I should not here otherwise!

What I meant, is that when I was in love with my girl, I DON'T FEEL the needing of any oter girl, because she was enough for me.
After 8 years of steady relationship, something going wrong (I didn't understand what), and I went back to WG, looking for sex outside the marriage.
Also because, often, wives use sex like a "blackmail arm": "if you don't do this, I will have no sex with you".
So, why being blackmailed?
And I begun some "relationship" with some WG

Lazzaro

11-06-06, 15:13

....Because guys like to try different types of girls, tall and thin, big breast, short and petitie, slutty with heavy make up or sophisticated, model type, glamorous, student type, or clean type. We can make up and dress to be different type.
...and why not the opposite? Why boys don't have to "change" sometime?
I'm bored to ear any time, that girls must be accomplished of these changement andboys must be tha same all the time.
My opinion is that either men and women must "change" sometime, to revive the relatioship, and this "duty" is not only a "female duty"

So, please, stop to justify men.
In this way, men will continuing to betray women (sorry dear: I was needing only a little sex)

It is not true

Lazzaro

11-06-06, 15:21

Sasha Coffee

11-06-06, 19:09

Thank you for the hint. I went the read the posts. I did reply but I struggled to keep within Jacksons guidelines for language and courtesy to another forum member.

He is lucky he is not in New Zealand, Here he would of been charged with procuring unsafe sex, not using a condom. In New Zealand they are all charges that either the client or the working girl can lay with police.

Not that this has been widely done (ofcourse) but for someone like him I'm sure most girls would make an exception and call the police, I know I would, I could think of nothing better than having his name all through the papers and subjecting him to court forced STD checks for my piece of mind. Then the $7500 fine should stop his mongering for a while.

Men, please always use condoms. Don't argue when the girl wants to use them either. She will respect you far more if you dont.

Please please please please, visit the Safe Sex Thailand Forum and tell that stupid Opebo what a complete loser and fool he is.

Bango Cheito

11-06-06, 21:52

You can never know for certain whether someone is cheating on you or not. But considering my gf has MY PERMISSION and actually MY ENCOURAGEMENT to fuck whoever she wants, man or woman, she has very little reason to lie. She has actually fucked other people in the 2 years we have been together, both of them have been ex-bf's. Once she was even kind enough to videotape it for me, like I asked. It was a terrible video because they were both drunk, but it was one of the most exciting things I ever watched. ;) I haven't been able to make a video for her, but she has had similar reactions to some of my WG stories.

WGs generally fuck better than the rest of the population, them being professionals. I consider them great teachers, they have helped me a lot with my knowledge of sex and how to please a woman.

Victoria, I agree with the other male posters, why don't you go out and have
some fun with other men? I've always said what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!

Alex Rock

11-07-06, 03:11

I took a look too and left a post for the idiot to respond to. See his response and mine back to him. As an ex cop - I think you'll agree he's guilty of legally defined "reckless behaviour" which endangers others. It's another reason why the profession should be protected.

China Lily

11-07-06, 05:40

Victoria,

Is there something different men look for with sex from you, that they don't get from their wives, or is it just because you are different women? They want excitement and different styles of girls they dont get at home. Some look for different style girl each time. Some like different style of sex. With a sex worker – he wants sex with no obligations and gets it – how he wants it can be quick and fast and when he’s finished he lets you go. Girls like quicker time because they get the same money. Some men want girlfriend experience and pretend it's a date, but they know you give sex after, these customers like a long time for sex and do every position. Girls can use tricks to make the customer finish quick. Regular customers want you to be like a girlfriend, they want you to remember them, go to restaurants and bars and they give you gifts. They want you to stay for breakfast. Some pay a girl to travel or stay with him a few days – it makes a business trip better. You act like a wife for a few days, then its is all over and you forget it. Some guys want sex for a whole day and to have sex lots of times. It is like he's not had sex for a long time and wants to make up for it. Some men want to lie back and let you do everything, treat him like a king. All want sex with a pretty woman who does sex without any responsibility, and when it’s finished they go back to everyday life.

Do some men talk about their wives to you and if they do what kind of things do they talk about? Almost every customers pretend they are not married and take off wedding rings. They don't talk about their wives. A few men show family pictures and tell you they don’t go with escort girls, then they go with one. I am never interested wife or family but sometimes pretend to be interested to get him feel closer to me than other girls. I never want to talk about a wife. In customers home you see wife and children pictures. Some customers want to talk about wife problems or say they have no sex, but I always change the subject. I am not a doctor. One customer asks me to wear his wife's dress while he has sex. I don't care.

Do you ever get feelings for your clients and do they ever get feelings for you? I never get feelings for customer even if he is a nice man. I might never see them again and I see different customers every day. Some customers get feelings and keep looking at my eyes, want to hold hands and buy nice presents. Some customers want to pay me to stop working. They pay 5 thousand dollars a month to stop work and only go with him when he comes to China. They want me to meet them at the airport and pretend I am his girlfriend when he is here. Customers like that do have some feelings but I don't. I just act - it is business, but I feel safe with them and trust them. I only got feelings 2 times, but not with a man who was a customer. Once with my husband – I was crazy about him as soon as I first meet him. After divorced and I work again I met my boyfriend and was crazy about him from the first day too - but he didn't know I was an escort. I never treat him like a customer. One girlfriend had a regular customer for 2 years, he always liked fast and noisy sex and was fun and makes jokes afterwards. He suddenly died and she was very upset when she found out. She said he was a friend when he was with her, but she didn't think about him at other times. After he dies, she said she did have feelings but like a friend or good customer, but not like love.

From your perspectives, do you think I should be upset that it happened before and do you think I should tell him no more and try to trust him, or should I try to accept it and turn a blind eye? It is not worth it to be upset. It happens all the time. If me I ask him to tell me what he wants and I will tell him what I want. As long as he always tells me and always comes home to me, I will feel safe and I accept if he goes with other girls sometimes. If he tells me about it, I will smile and ask about it and if the girls had something or did something he likes, I will do it for him too. Escorts always want to know what customers like so they can look better or compete with other girls. When a customers wife find out about him with my girlfriend, she asked him to take her and me home. She was upset like you but after she met us and talked with us, she stopped being angry. She wanted to watch us with her husband, then she joined in, She was not upset anymore. Another customers wife said she didn't mind he goes to KTV, but when she went with her husband and saw him with KTV girls she left him the next day. I think you can only turn a blind eye if you trust him to come back to you and be nice to you at home. Why care about things you can’t see?

If it was YOU would you accept it if your husband went with escorts when he was on business trips. Would you be upset and how would you talk to him about it? Yes I accept it. I don't want it, but I accept it. I would make he feel good he can tell me anything and I won't get mad. If he can talk to me about it I feel good, then we can be honest.

As working girls, assuming I stay with him, what advice can you give me to make my husband and me happier? For man and wife sex should be better than with other people. I have sex with lots of customers but feeling is different with my boyfriend. I dont know what your sex is like, but you can ask him what he wants and what other girls do and give it to him. You can ask him to do what you like too. Get sex movies and sex magazines, sexy clothes, surprise him and play games. Bring a friend or escort for threesome. Don't be shy about sex. If your husband sees you as a sexy woman you will be happy too. I think if he can talk to you about anything and is not afraid to tell you things it is the best. Happy is the best thing. Tell him what makes you happy and try to give him what makes him happy.

Alex Rock

11-07-06, 06:11

Ever had a male friend you've known a while who didn't know you were a working girl then somehow find out? Or do you let everyone know as soon as they meet you.? Did you ever sell services to guys you had known before they knew your profession, and how did it affect the relationship?

China Lily - did it ever happen to you?

SE Asia Joe

11-07-06, 07:06

I don't want pity. Thanks, that will get me nowhere. I want to understand how men and working girls think and feel. I want to try to make my marriage work and will make this an opportunity to get things out in the open.
May I ask you men, From a guy's perspective, would you advise I allow him to continue with my knowledge or just turn a blind eye?

Apologies for jumping in on the discussions but .....
Victoria - you made a commitment when you got married, and never mind the fact that your husband did the same. Is it an absolute necessity that you also break your vows just because he did? Like... why bring yourself to his level of morality, dignity etc. OK OK I understand that its going to be hard, but let me give you a trick that works for me on many occassions - whether in business, family, matrimonial or other matters. I always tell myself that the other party, sooner or later will need me/will be depending on me to do something etc - and I say to myself that at that time.... I will repay him/her back 10 times over in KINDNESS and GENEROSITY.
This trick allows me to get over any anger, frustrations, rage etc knowing that sooner or later, I will get my come-uppance by being a much better person than the other party. Also, when time comes for my "payback" and me paying back with kindness and generosity, it will prove to myself that I am indeed a better person PLUS let him/her know deeply their own transgression/failure as a person.
Hope that above makes sense.... and Jeez, WTF am I doing getting all philosophical etc when all I wanted to do getting on ISG is to look at some dirty pictures, read some tittilating stories etc. JEEEZ!
SE Asia Joe

Sasha Coffee

11-07-06, 09:06

Ok, no, I have never had a male friend or female friend that hasn't known what I do.

Yes I've had a friend that has paid me for services. In fact it was an old BF.

Hehe Must be good eh?

Bango Cheito

11-07-06, 09:53

Petemcc

11-07-06, 09:59

I just see it as equal rights. I think marriage for most people today is a stupid fucking idea to begin with, or at least total monogamy. It's almost incompatible with an honest and open relationship. People want and like to fuck other people than just one person mostly, it's that simple!
Spot on. As I believe I said, marriage is something that was created by older society, for good reasons albiet, but which is frankly struggling to come to terms with modern society- divorce rate of around 50% for example, certainally in the USA and not far behind in most western countries. It's like asking priests (Catholic) not to have sex- it just didn't work and backfired (excuse the pun) on the catholic church. As long as men have testosterone, and frankly, even if they are castrated-there are other parts of male biochemistry that dictate sex too, then men will want to fuck other women. To what extent they repress their feelings by conforming is up to them, or circumstances.
Then again, we all understand, don't we! (rhetorical)

Pete

SE Asia Joe

11-07-06, 10:24

spot on. as i believe i said, marriage is something that was created by older society, as long as men have testosterone, then men will want to fuck other women. to what extent they repress their feelings by conforming is up to them, or circumstances.
then again, we all understand, don't we! (rhetorical)

pete
hmmmm.... as lennon would say....imagine... no marriages... at all!
guys chosing gals at a whim ... gals spinning their best to keep the guy...(after all, no more marriage certificate, so their only control would be their performance).... gals getting dumped past certain age... abortions soars (or perhaps not, as gals will give birth to "keep their guy")... nuclear famlies/no more traditonal families...old gals forming a united force against scumbag males...westerners moving to asia and s.america in droves....young guys stopping work and just live off of old gals... old guys stopping work as they're just plain old too pooped out screwing... ... ...
naaah - we need marriage - even if its others who gets married. the world cain't exist without at least a certain conventional modality of marriage. besides which, whats all the ladies of the night going to do if this happens? the actual end of the world's oldest profession? jackson.... you' need to do something about this - without paid ladies, the raison d'etre for isg is gone!
se asia joe

Alex Rock

11-07-06, 11:12

May I ask you men, Rock, George, Alex, Piper1 and others ? Do you get feelings for escorts? Is sex with them better than with your wife? What is it that turns you on so much? Is it that woman or is it novelty? How is it different? After sex with an escort how do you feel? Do you feel affectionate, guilty or high? What can a wife do so a husband doesn't feel the need to wonder? From a guy's perspective, would you advise I allow him to continue with my knowledge or just turn a blind eye?Victoria, I think you've had plenty of responses from people here. Seems we guys like to explain ourselves here. But anyhow here are some quick responses from my POV.

Generally I don't get feelings for WG, but I might like get to them and actually become friends. I fell in love with one but that was before I knew her work.

Sex with WG can feel free and liberated with no strings attached. You don't have to be nice, do the dishes, or take her to dinner. With a wife or GF, she is human and might not feel like it when you do. A WG always feels like it - for cash - so there's no doubt about the outcome.

Sometimes its not that they turn you on so much - as they are an available woman. Sometimes it can be a real turn on to choose a really hot woman and to enjoy things about her. Sometimes it's a different experience to go with a sl**tty type for a different experience. It is novelty. I personally like the experience when the girl takes a long time and stroked me slowly. Some girls have learned to do that very well, they stroke you and scratch you gently and get you really fired up.

After sex with an escort I feel relaxed and ready to concentrate on my work. Let me add it can feel better than sex with a freebie who might bring consequences or hassle you. When my ex wife wouldn't give me sex, and made me feel like shit for liking Playboy, I built up anger towardss her and felt great after I'd been with a WG - I'd had a release and her denial didn't stop me getting my sexual release. However, when I "cheated" with a girl I loved, I did feel guilty.

If I have any advice what a wife can do it is to enable your husband to be honest with you and let him feel that you will not get upset or mad at anything he tells you voluntarily. Give him the sense that you will accept him and love him no matter what he tells you and no matter what his previously hidden sexual interests were. Another thing is - like China Lily suggested - act like different women and play games. You can even act like a wh*re and ask him to pay you for something you don't usually do. If being home with you is homely, it's not a turn on. Another thing you might try is ask him to talk through all the details of sex with other women while you are having sex with him. He might enjoy the fantasy and embellish the stories if he thinks you like it and share it with him.

Believe it or not a good friend of mine loved his wife but couldn't bring himself to have sex with her after she had had a baby - it was the classic Madonna-Wh*re syndrome. He held his wife up on a pedestal and thought sex would spoil her, but he had no problem with other women. Guys can stop associating their wives with sex and sexiness. Suggest you make sure he doesn't associate you with homeliness.

As for your last question. I can't answer that. That is your "contract" with him.

Doctor_Skank

11-07-06, 11:15

It's all about freedom.

WGs give you freedom.

Wives only want to take it away...

Alex Rock

11-07-06, 11:18

It's all about freedom.

WGs give you freedom.

Wives only want to take it away...
I agree it's about freedom, but it's not WG who give us freedom, we give it to ourselves.

Lazzaro

11-07-06, 13:01

Men, please always use condoms. Don't argue when the girl wants to use them either. She will respect you far more if you dont.

Please please please please, visit the Safe Sex Thailand Forum and tell that stupid Opebo what a complete loser and fool he is.
Dearest SC

givin an eye to the "photo gallery" section of this forum (ALL the countries!) you can easily see that many, many, many, many men don't use condom.
I try to told them, several times, but, at the end, it is their life, not mine.
Yes, it is also the life of the girls, but if WG doesn't take care about their health, I cannot shoot them!

Ciao

Doctor_Skank

11-07-06, 16:09

Alex Rock:

Agreed, the enlightened male gives himself the freedom.

The WG (or any suitable female) provides the physical playground for our expression of sexual freedom.

I honestly believed prostitition greatly improved my sex life, both pro and non-pro. Like going to football camp in the summer and then kicking ass in the fall.

George90

11-07-06, 16:11

Victoria doesn't say that her husband used the company c/c to pay for his little bit of fun. She says she was going to go to the company for copies of his hotel bill. I doubt that he has charged his female to his company c/c.

Firstly, an employee doesn't need to charge an expense to a company CC to defraud it. Charging an expense to one's own CC and then applying for and receiving reimbursement is the same thing. Secondly, bringing an escort to the company paid hotel room, even if the direct escort expense is out of the employee's pocket, is a serious enough transgression for the company to respond with legal action.

You say in your post that Victoria obviously made herself available to her husband I challenge that comment, available when and how often is a point to be debated by husband and wife, Victorias idea of available could be 1 week, her husbands idea might be daily. Who knows. Just wanted to point it out. No offence intended.

I do not remember making that statement, nor can I find it in my posts. Please indicate it for me.

George90

11-07-06, 16:27

George90. My husband didn?t charge any escort services to his hotel. All he did was make calls to agencies from his room.

I guess most of you work in very different jobs than I have. I have travelled on business and my then employer kept us on a tight budget and scrutinized our expense reports. We had an allowance for meals and any meals that exceeded the allowance were paid out of our pockets. Ground travel expenses, ie taxis, also had a limit. If we used the hotel's phones in our rooms, those expenses could get looked at too. Many hotels charge for in-room phone use. Calls late at night showing up on our bills could easily get flagged and disallowed. Pay-per-view TV use was an absolute no-no. Nobody wanted a porn charge showing up on the hotel bill. Internet use was similarly scrutinized. We had to account for our time online and document the sites we visited, mostly the company's site to get information from databases.

Phone calls to escort agencies on the hotel bill?????? This guy would have been at least fired! I don't understand how so many of you view this as something casual.

George90

11-07-06, 16:31

I forgot to say that when any pro action took place, it was always in another hotel. Personal cell phones were used. Everything was in cash. No mention of anything, no receipts for anything, no taxi fares for anything, even remotely related to this activity was ever hinted to the company.

George90

11-07-06, 16:42

I don't know why you need details to verify anything. I'm 31 he's 34, we've got no kids, I had no suspicion of anything until he wouldn't take my calls some evenings. I've been through accusing him of disrespecting me, being unfaithful, cheating, and everything else, but he begged me to give him a chance. I know I need to work this out and my relationship with my husband has nothing to do with other people?s relationships with each other. Before I can come to trying to trust him again, I simply want to understand how people think. If you have time you can help me.

Victoria,

Again, you do not need to understand who everyone thinks, only how the man that is, or is to be, your husband thinks. China Lily has shown that different men think different about prostitution. You can't generalize about this. I asked your ages and about any kids because it is best to compare the costs of trying to salvage your marriage with the benefits of doing so.

In your post, you imply that he has been doing this repeatedly since he has refused to take your calls on several evenings. My specific advice is to listen to your mother and sisters; divorce him! Your are young enough, and presumably attractive enough, to find another husband. This time talk with the men you date about infidelity, prostitution, affairs, etc. to understand what those specific individual men think about it.

George90

11-07-06, 17:10

Regor

11-07-06, 20:03

Prostitution is an unwritten contract between two or more people. I give you money and you give me my moneys worth. The girl perhaps likes it or not. She does it not for your beautiful eys, but for the money. She gives her body but not her thoughts. When you go to work you lend your body to the job and your thoughts. You perhaps like it or not,you do it for the money.

So who in hell is a prostitude, are we not all? If you dont want to be like that, then tell the boss to f...hemself. Don't let yourself get payed for work. You lower yourself to prostitution.

Petemcc

11-08-06, 02:34

hmmmm.... as lennon would say....imagine... no marriages... at all!
guys chosing gals at a whim ... gals spinning their best to keep the guy...(after all, no more marriage certificate, so their only control would be their performance).... gals getting dumped past certain age... abortions soars (or perhaps not, as gals will give birth to "keep their guy")... nuclear famlies/no more traditonal families...old gals forming a united force against scumbag males...westerners moving to asia and s.america in droves....young guys stopping work and just live off of old gals... old guys stopping work as they're just plain old too pooped out screwing... ... ...
naaah - we need marriage - even if its others who gets married. the world cain't exist without at least a certain conventional modality of marriage. besides which, whats all the ladies of the night going to do if this happens? the actual end of the world's oldest profession? jackson.... you' need to do something about this - without paid ladies, the raison d'etre for isg is gone!
se asia joe

ah! you misunderstood me, or i didn't make it clear. i am not saying that marriage shouldn't exist. of course it is necessary and in some ways natural, however the restrictions it places causes the problems. i've been married for 20 years (living together for 24) and i wouldn't dream of dumping my wife for some 21 year old thai or chinese girl, or any girl for that matter. we have a life, an intimate life, a life of understanding and sharing and friendship. i am lucky that she has given her support for me making the occasional trip to thailand to have some different fun.
getting back to the problem, and perhaps the title of this entire thread- the morality of prostitution- morality is the issue. conventional marriage says one person and one person only. even boy-girl relationships dictate the same sort of thing. i am not saying that this is wrong, just often not practicable.
there'll always be a need for wgs, even if marriage were to be disolved tomorrow, so don't worry. i've got a hangover and can't type any more.

Bango Cheito

11-08-06, 06:36

Plenty of socities existed and flourished without being based on the nuclear family. It just happens to be the glue that held Christian socities together for many centuries, and from those well-knit socitieis the Industrial Revolution was born, and that culture ended up dominating most of the planet.

Now, we are a post-industrial society and with every new technology that comes out, the rules of life change with it. The nuclear family is no longer as viable as it once was, although for some people it will be fine. But people are desparately clinging to it IMO often because they don't think there are any other alternatives, which shows a lack of understanding of human history among other things.

I personally think that the individual is the new unit of society and love and sex will completely change in the way they are dealt with in the next 50-100 years.
But WGs will never go away. We may see an increase in WB's actually!

Alex Rock

11-09-06, 08:32

Ok, no, I have never had a male friend or female friend that hasn't known what I do.

Yes I've had a friend that has paid me for services. In fact it was an old BF.

Hehe Must be good eh? Cool. Curious was it more fun with him when he was a BF or when he was a client?

ALso, any fathers bring their sons or sisters bring their brothers ? A French buddy at University told us his first time was bought for him by his sister.

Alex Rock

11-09-06, 08:39

I only got feelings 2 times, but not with a man who was a customer. Once with my husband – I was crazy about him as soon as I first meet him. After divorced and I work again I met my boyfriend and was crazy about him from the first day too - but he didn't know I was an escort.China Lily,

You must meet attractive or wealthy guys all the time and have the confidence to get guys easily. What was so different about the 2 guys you got crazy about as soon as you saw them? Or what was different about you at the times when you came across them?

From a couple of you posts, you've said you can dress or make up like different types of women. Do you enter different roles when you dress differently?

China Lily

11-09-06, 18:50

China Lily,

You must meet attractive or wealthy guys all the time and have the confidence to get guys easily. What was so different about the 2 guys you got crazy about as soon as you saw them? Or what was different about you at the times when you came across them?

From a couple of you posts, you've said you can dress or make up like different types of women. Do you enter different roles when you dress differently?
Alex, Yes, I meet many rich successful guys and some are nice guys, but I don't feel anything special except for my husband and then my boyfriend - I got crazy about them. They looked a bit like each other. They had a special look about their eyes and were very relaxed. I always want to find the right man to be my husband, I can't explain it, I felt they were the man to be my husband, I immedietely knew I want them and I go straight for them. After working many years I can't explain why I so crazy about those 2 guys.

When I dress as different style, while I am alone I dont feel any different until I get to the place I work, then I act as the type of girl I am dressed like. It is easy. If I wear Chanel or classic clothes and fur coat I act classy, if I wear lashes and short skirt I act sexy, if I wear boots and tight jeans I act different. If I am with a businessman I act like a professional. If we entertain customers at KTV party I act like a party girl. If I wear business suit I act different. It is very easy for girls to change the way we look and act. When we finish and we girls go for evening snacks, I don't act anymore, it is me again with my girlfriends.

Sasha Coffee

11-09-06, 18:53

In many countries its a custom for the father to take the son to a brothel to loose their virginity. I think New Zealand men are bit "manly" to do or discuss that sort of thing with their son.

In saying that I have had a father tell his son to come and see me. Was kind of strange knowing that. I have broken in my share of virgins, but its more their mates that seem to bring them to brothels.

As the bf turned client. mmmmm now I'm not sure. In fact I think I will plead the 5th on that one. Sorry Alex

Alex Rock

11-10-06, 19:51

Is it an absolute necessity that you also break your vows just because he did? Like... why bring yourself to his level of morality, dignity etc. OK OK I understand that its going to be hard, but let me give you a trick that works for me on many occassions - whether in business, family, matrimonial or other matters. I always tell myself that the other party, sooner or later will need me/will be depending on me to do something etc - and I say to myself that at that time.... I will repay him/her back 10 times over in KINDNESS and GENEROSITY.
This trick allows me to get over any anger, frustrations, rage etc knowing that sooner or later, I will get my come-uppance by being a much better person than the other party. Also, when time comes for my "payback" and me paying back with kindness and generosity, it will prove to myself that I am indeed a better person PLUS let him/her know deeply their own transgression/failure as a person.
Hope that above makes sense.... and Jeez, WTF am I doing getting all philosophical etc when all I wanted to do getting on ISG is to look at some dirty pictures, read some tittilating stories etc. JEEEZ!
SE Asia Joe
Sorry this thread distracted you, but I find it captivating too.

I admire your approach, but can you really do it? If your found out wife or girlfriend cheated on you - could you really take it with kindness and generosity? In theory I can understand, but in reality jealousy, pity and anger can be very strong emotions and fuelled with a little alcohol it's difficult to be kind and generous.

Petemcc

11-11-06, 17:12

Sorry this thread distracted you, but I find it captivating too.

I admire your approach, but can you really do it? If your found out wife or girlfriend cheated on you - could you really take it with kindness and generosity? In theory I can understand, but in reality jealousy, pity and anger can be very strong emotions and fuelled with a little alcohol it's difficult to be kind and generous.

Alex I agree
The bottom line is this- live with it or fuck off. No special strategies. If you still love the person and your relationship is stronger than sex with another, keep it. If not, fuck off and find someone else and hope that they don't think the same way.

China Lily

11-12-06, 13:08

Alex Rock

11-12-06, 14:24

Petemcc

11-12-06, 23:58

It's something inside that triggers emotions. I read when we get strong felings about something - it's probably programmed in our genes. Why the hell did I get so upset when I found out my girlfriend was an escort? When she came clean - one side of me - rational and logical said it's OK. Another side, emotional, jealous and irational was fucked up.

I tried to read about jealousy - they say it starts with sibling rivalry - competing for attention and resources from parents. It can be pretty serious if you are a bird that gets pushed out a nest to certain death by a sibling, or a shark eaten by a sibling in the womb.

If you've been cuckolded you know it hurts.

I'm amazed at your wife and the relationship you've got.

Thanks Alex, I suppose I am pretty lucky.
However, I know a number of people who are swingers, although my wife and I are not, so I think you'd be surprised how many wives/husbands tolerate extra marital sex.
As I think I said before, this forum is about the morality of prostitution. In my narrow little mind it's merely a western christian moral. I am not bound by religeon, indeed I have no religeon, I go by the other moral principle of right and wrong. Maybe it helps that my wife has fucked up a few times, but I don't hold that against her as a bargaining tool. At the end of the day it's just sex. When it becomes love, then you are in trouble, but pure protected animal sex between 2 consenting adults is a lot more moral in my POV than many things done today in the name of religeon.
Sorry for going off the point.
Pete

Alex Rock

11-13-06, 13:18

You talk a lot about working girl as a girlfriend or wife. When you found out your girlfriend is an escort, and when she tell you everything, and she is honest with you, why cant you accept it? You said in one message that you made another working girl as a close friend and she is very honest with you and you seem to have other working girls as friends.

If you really love your girlfriend, and she is honest with you, why can't you take her back?Wow - this pushes some very sore buttons. I can't explain it. I was crazy with jealousy! She had been one person in my mind and wasn't honest about her work, I went through pain of suspicion, pain of finding out and the pain of her confessing everything to me. We broke up, she came back. After we broke up, sometimes she'd come to my place at 2-3 in the morning after work, and I really liked it. Then we might go shopping or to a restaurant and I'd see guys look at her - I was probably wrong but I started thinking, all these guys might have screwed her. It was complex. I felt very jealous.

The other wg I became friends with, were honest from day 1. No secrets, no games, straight up honesty. That was what was different.

I can't go back with my girlfriend - I loved her, but there are too many painful memories.

Why do you ask?

Lazzaro

11-13-06, 15:01

Alex Rock

11-17-06, 12:40

Just curious, if you have managed to work things out. Alex

Sasha Coffee

11-18-06, 04:08

There is no possible way that Alex will ever take his girlfriend back. She can be as honest as God himself now. but its to late.

The trust is broken and gone, She lied to begin the relationship therefore the relationship was a lie. The friends that Alex has that are working girls he has always known what they do, therefore the friendships that they have built have been based on honesty and been allowed to develop and flourish into whatever they may. Every friendship is started on a basis of honesty and respect, even if your friends don't be honest with you 90% of the time the friendship will fail. Alex is just reacting as most men would.

After all, now he is faced with three dilemmas that are difficult for a man.

1 She is going to be earning more money that him (maybe)
2 She is going to be sleeping with other men, some of them are going to be better looking than him, earn more money, and be just as interested in her as he is. This is a hard thing for a man to accept.
3 She has lied.

So really I am not surprised that Alex cannot take back, but that he can have friendships with other working girls.

SE Asia Joe

11-18-06, 06:27

I admire your approach, but can you really do it? If your found out wife or girlfriend cheated on you - could you really take it with kindness and generosity? In theory I can understand, but in reality jealousy, pity and anger can be very strong emotions and fuelled with a little alcohol it's difficult to be kind and generous.

There are situations in life when one MUST endure no matter what - that is what I am referring to. Situations like when there are children involved, inter-dependency in whatever form (financial, physical infirmaries, business,) AND most importantly - when someone TRULY loves the other. You ain't got no choices - and rather than hating, being angry, suffering, be frustrated etc - I found out early in life that what I suggest is MY best way to cope.
Reading some of your posts I gather that you've been talking about a GF who has been disloyal to you/selling herself. Basic question I would ask in your situtation would be - is she worth it IN THE FIRST PLACE? I would venture to suggest that she definitely would not be worth it, and that is best for you to just move on with your life. As a guy who's had the benefit of age and lots of experience, I can pretty well guarantee you that something better ALWAYS comes up when leaving a crappy situation/ relationship. NO what I was talking about is something some one worth LOTS more than your GF - and in the case of the lady asking about her hubby and pros - I detect that she still has lots of love for the guy and thus all I was offering was a way for her to cope with the situation IF she wants to remain with him. Of coruse she's gonna have to first decide if the guy is worth it or not and if what they have is truly something that is to be cherished.
My best wishes goes to both this lady and you Alex
SE Asia Joe

Alex Rock

11-18-06, 11:41

Appreciate the perspective - thanks

I have moved on. The wg wasn't worth it, but emotions confused my thinking. I also think your advice for Victoria was well put too.

Thanks, Alex

Alex Rock

11-18-06, 11:47

Alex Rock

11-18-06, 11:53

If you really love your girlfriend, and she is honest with you, why can't you take her back? China Lily, after seeing the posts from Sasha, SE Asia Joe and Lazarro, I must add, Sasha was right - if she had been honest from day 1, I wouldn't have felt so destroyed. Even though she was honest later, I had "baggage" or "gremlins" - very strong emotional feelings that hurt deeply.

If I had known she was a working girl when I met her, I wouldn't have let the relationship go deep. That is your dilemma.

I only got close to another working girl after I had had the experience with the first one - and the relationship which starts with honesty is much much stronger. BUT She is married to someone now who doesn't know what she did before. In other words she was totally honest with me and can tell me anything, but she can't tell her husband lot's of things about her past and she's afraid to travel to Beijing in case she bumps into ex-clients and her husband asks how she knows them. She can't tell him how she earned money to buy 2 apartments - she says she had a rich boyfriend before - she can't tell him the truth who gave her a diamond bracelet. She doesn't act the way she'd really like in bed with him - in case he senses she is "experienced".

Hope this helps you understand the way I see it.

Sasha Coffee

11-18-06, 21:06

I have thought about your dilemma a little more.

There is one flaw in this whole argument. Its the fact that everyone is concentrating on her being a WG. When the truth is that is not the issue the issue was the lie to cover it.

Obviously you have no problem with WG you have friends that are you have used their services, you attempted to take your girlfriend back, but it wouldn't work. Because when you were out you wondered if guys that looked at her had been their.

To be honest I doubt every guy that looked at her had done her but by her lying to you it made you paranoid and you noticed every guy that even made a passing glance at her. I wonder if you notice guys looking at your WG friends, or do you just see it as normal male perving. I would suggest male perving.

The whole point, is its the lie that does the damage, not what the lie is about.

Bango Cheito

11-19-06, 06:53

My gf and I have trust right now. That's why I even bother. Without the trust there can be no love.

Alex Rock

11-19-06, 20:30

You're so right.

The honesty issue was what made it impossible for me to go back with her. Guys perving her triggered suspicions which wouldn't have occurred if she had been as honest as the girl I got to know later. Painful memories of suspsicion and jealousy were other factors.

The second issue is if we guys can accept an honest wg as a girlfriend or even a a wife. I think I could. I could probably trust the wg I came close to much more than other women becuase the honesty means I can say anything to her, which is not so easy if you've acted as a nice guy.

In other words most guys are not honest with their wives that they go with wg. Whereas if I did and was honest, the second wg gf would not bat an eyelid. Most guys can't be honest with their wives.

Petemcc

11-20-06, 13:04

This report may add nothing to the debate, and in fact I am sure it won't, but here it is anyway.

You have all read my liberal views on prostitution and the like, but I do not think that I could ever chose a WG as my girlfriend/wife. I have to admit that this forum has matured my attitude a lot. I have been with quite a few WGs and previously always wondered how they had boyfriends.
Now I understand how, and what it's all about, and I say this- you guys who have WG girlfriends( and I mean the real proper ones, not the drug ridden sluts that pose as WGs), good on you, you are fucking good guys, honestly. To people like Sascha, Rubber and China, ladies, you are the best, and you deserve the best.
However could I live with you? Probably not. I still have my western middle-classed views ( note no religeon there), and unless you were really special I would find it hard.
I once spoke to Rubber about a problem I had, with a druggie, thieving prostitute who lost me my job. Her bottom line was- could I take this girl out and be with my friends, work mates and even the public with her. I couldn't, she was a scrag. You three girls, I have no doubt that not only could I take you out, but I would be so made-up to have such eloquent and lovely ladies in my company, and not only would you cause no embarassment, but you would make me look and feel like a King. Unfortunately, I would have problems sharing you with someone else, even if that sharing was only 1 hour of meaningless sex/work.
Having said that, I have never met you. Maybe love does make things different. All I am saying is that if you ladies have a man who can live with your life, you are really lucky. Guys, if you can live with that, you are understanding and really lucky. Together, I believe if you are honest with one another, your relationship will be absolutely spectacular, and I envy you. It is not for me, I think, but if you can make it work, for fucks sake enjoy it- we only live once.
Good luck.

Sasha Coffee

11-21-06, 19:13

Finally a man that can be honest.

I love the line about drug infested sluts posing as working girls. Thats showed some thought and tickled my sense of humour.

Having a relationship with a working girl is hard and most men 999 of 1000 can't do it. Is that their fault I don't think so. Its not something that is easy for a man to cope with.

I want to point out the other side of the coin as well. As a professional working girl I look for things in a client, can he afford the service, will he be respectiful, is he clean and well presented.

I look for the same things in a boyfriend. except for the paying for me thing. If I had a boyfriend I would want and employed professional or semi professional, own house, own car, own life, own friends. When I say professional I don't mean he has to be a doctor or dentist, but he has to have a decent job with decent wages and a decent upbringing.

Now if I was a normal girl, working a normal job, I'd have a boyfriend like that. I don't work a normal job and a boyfriend like that who can handle me being a tart I would suggest hasn't been born yet. Damm it all.

Now being a working girl I see lots of other working girls and i can honestly say there are plenty of men out there that will date working girls, problem is they are all druggies themselves, just out of prison, live on welfare, are total foos. They will date a working girl and spend her money. Thats why they date her. Then they will give her a bashing for working then send to work cause they need more money. Who knows why.

So what Pete says is totally correct, you can be liberal in your relationship but dating a working girl is a totally different situation again. One that I would not recommend anyone but the strongest most self assured people enter into. Cause otherwise you'll be in therapy for years afterwards.

Oh and Pete thanks for the compliment, about looks and treating you like a King, damn right I would.

Rock Dog

11-23-06, 03:46

In fact, this should be THE question for any working girl. So here it is.

How well are you doing financially? A lot of WG's never get ahead because they have (as has been mentioned) drug problems. A lot of them do what they do so because that's the only way they could afford their drugs. Also, many have to give up a portion to the pimp/brothel owner.

But what about the other ones? It seems that guys all over the world are willing to pay good money for an hour of sex with the woman of their choice. My guess is that a smart, financially disciplined woman should be able to make out very well in this line of work.

Sasha and China Lily, I'm especially interested in your views regarding this.

Rock

Bango Cheito

11-23-06, 06:36

my gf sticks to the webcam and doesn't see any clients IRL. Many girls end up drinking too much or popping pills etc in order to deal with the reality of sleeping with strangers and wind up addicted.

The financial angle is affected by many things, fines from police, bribes, supply outweighing demand etc.

I know lots of WG who saved up and are now financially independent and retired before they hit middle age. It can be done with discipline and smarts.

It really seems to me that in places where prostitution is legal, WGs IN GENERAL resort to chemical lubrication a lot less, although it still happens like I said in the first paragraph. :P

Rock Dog, I grew up in your town, and I fully understand why people get totally strung out on drugs there, life can be VERY rough :P

Sasha Coffee

11-23-06, 18:55

I would not rather discuss my personal financial situation, but lets just say I have a nice lifestyle.

But I do own a sports car, i do own a Harley, I do own (not the bank)my home.

But yes you are right, sadly alot of working girls do end up having nothing at the end of their time in the industry.

Petemcc

11-24-06, 01:09

Rubber Nursey

11-24-06, 03:32

in fact, this should be the question for any working girl...how well are you doing financially? a lot of wg's never get ahead because they have (as has been mentioned) drug problems. also, many have to give up a portion to the pimp/brothel owner.

rock - a lot of lawyers, doctors, kitchen hands, teachers, psychologists, cleaners, telemarketers (you get the picture) never get ahead because they have drug problems. a lot of real estate reps, sales reps, franchisees, brickies labourers (and other sub-contractors) give up a large portion of their earnings to their boss or agency.

do we ask a hairdresser if she is 'getting ahead financially'? do we criticise a travel agent because she spends most of her cash on cars and jewellery? do we look down on an accountant who, despite a huge hourly rate, has no savings in the bank?

sex work is income-generating employment, like any other job. we fuck, we get paid and then we do with our money what everyone else does with theirs - we pay our kids or ourselves through school, pay bills and debts, buy houses and cars, pay the rent, buy food and clothes, travel, support extended families, or just [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) it up the wall on booze and drugs. whose business is it what we spend our cash on?

why is a hooker who blows her cash on making herself happy, any less of a "smart, financially disciplined woman" than one who puts it all into property or an interest-bearing account? (and lets not forget countries where sex work is illegal and amassing large amounts of money or assets without visible financial means could land you in deep you-know-what).

suggesting that a woman who leaves the industry with nothing, has in some way 'wasted' their money, is incredibly patronising. many women (and men) work only to afford their uni fees or the deposit on a new house or pay off huge debts, etc, then quit the industry when they reach that goal. many (particularly single mums and students) work only enough hours to make an average wage and have no more or less savings than anyone else on an average wage.

and yes, some work solely to support a drug habit. so what? why is that any more 'unfortunate' than the thousands of miners, truckdrivers, nightclub staff, nurses, etc that shoot most of their income into their veins??? more to the point, do we ever say that people in those professions are "only working to support a drug habit"?

when was the last time you heard someone say that someone "resorted" to being a physiotherapist to support a heroin addiction???

sorry...end of rant. :)

Rock Dog

11-26-06, 19:30

Wow, that was quite a response!

Sasha, I respect that you don't want to talk about your own finances. However, your reply was much appreciated. Thanks!

RN, whoa girl! I think you took my question the wrong way! It was in no way meant to imply anything negative about working girls. I just wanted to know if there was any real reasons why they couldn't do well for themselves in a financial sense.

Rock

Bango Cheito

11-27-06, 06:52

Also I think it is valid to talk about saving your money as a WG the same way it is valid for someone in the NFL or the NBA. It's physically exhausting and debilitating work at times and it's hard to make anywhere near the same money at it after 30 in most cases (but certainly not all, and personally I think that women over 30 are WAY underrated, but hey, I'm not the whole market!).

Rock Dog

11-29-06, 03:56

Just to clarify my position,

I appreciate the services provided by WGs. I also view it as a potentially lucrative career choice. You can make a lot of money selling sex, especially if you are sexually attractive.

It follows that if one CAN make a lot of money doing something, one generally DOES go out and do just that. Since there's only 2 things you can do with money (spend it, or not spend it), people making money tend to go up, down or stay even.

There's no moral judgement or implications of superiority/inferiority being made on my part for any of these circumstances. I was just speculating that someone who is capable of generating significant tax-free revenues should easily be able to get ahead in a financial sense. Sure, you could say "easy come, easy go" and blow it as fast as you make it. There are also the large numbers who are able to finance expensive (and self-destructive) habits through the sex trade. But I was wondering if there weren't also large numbers of women who might actually be getting rich doing it.

This is something the mainstream media NEVER wants to talk about. Intstead, they prefer to focus on the negatives, the failures, addictions and tragedies that occur. I just can't believe that there aren't a good number of women out there who are smart enough to make a sex-trade career really pay off.

Hope this help everyone to understand what I'm getting at.

Rock

Bango Cheito

11-30-06, 08:23

I know several WGs who have done just that. Many of them buy houses with cash somewhere where it's cheap to live, buy their car, and invest the rest and wind up completely financially independent by age 30. Much more than the media would have us believe, that's for sure.

SE Asia Joe

11-30-06, 08:40

Petemcc

11-30-06, 13:11

First my apologies for jumping in here - but I cannot help but see that all this discussion is so centered on what I perceive to be "Western Values" - or at least values based upon having grown up in a first world economy.
1. In third world countries many WG's do not have any other choice - not when there is so much poverty, no opportunity for education, perceived value of Females vs. Males etc
2. In third world countries WG's mostly start with the idea of helping out their family
3. Status in life - WG's are truly at the bottom of society in 3rd world countries whilst not strictly so in Western countries where the rest of the population is somewhat "more understanding and forgiving"
4. I would venture to guess that the majority of WG's in 3rd world countries (at least I know this is so in China) would 'retire' when they've got enough and go back to their own villages to start up their own family and settle in domestic bliss etc. They definitely would NOT let their husbands AND family/village/neighbours/friends etc know that they were WG's when they were away.
5. Given the circumstances in 3rd world countries, forced circumstances/ money is THE ONLY motivation for life as a WG there while CHOICE is there for WG's in western countries.
Sorry - but this is IMHO only - with no offense meant for anybody.
SE Asia Joe

There is always a choice! Most girls in TWC do not turn to prostitution, it is a choice based on weighing up pros( excuse the pun) and cons. Probably, and the girls can answer this for me, only a nymphomaniac would willingly sell her body for sex, maybe without much selling. But, as I understand it, a bit like a cat walk model, or a professional 'football' ( whichever code) player, people use what assets they have to make a living. Some realise that certain professions attract more money than others, fair enough, but IMHO, don't pretend that a little Thai girl who has 1-2 customers per night for 2 years isn't a prostitute, or the same in China. They are and they know they are, They cannot expect to get nice customers like us, they will get the shitty ones as well, and sooner or later they will realise that they are in fact merely fuck recepticles. That they want to shelter this from their families does not matter a fuck. Again, I can't speak for them, but I guess that Rubber, Sasha or China would not meet a new potential boyfriend and say ; oh, I am a prostitutem fancy a relationship?'
WGs are the bottom of the pile in the west too, probably moreso than teh east.
Finally, have you ever been in a job where you earned a lot of money, then quit it and earned nothing?
Accumulated wealth does not last forever, because one's lifestyle dictates that. To think someone can only be a WG for a few years and then settle down with a husband who earns less in a month than she can in a week is ludicrous. If anything, in the west, prostitution is a viscious circle. But this is only MPOV

Alex Rock

12-01-06, 02:40

3. Status in life - WG's are truly at the bottom of society in 3rd world countries whilst not strictly so in Western countries where the rest of the population is somewhat "more understanding and forgiving"
4. I would venture to guess that the majority of WG's in 3rd world countries (at least I know this is so in China) would 'retire' when they've got enough and go back to their own villages to start up their own family and settle in domestic bliss etc. They definitely would NOT let their husbands AND family/village/neighbours/friends etc know that they were WG's when they were away.
5. Given the circumstances in 3rd world countries, forced circumstances/ money is THE ONLY motivation for life as a WG there while CHOICE is there for WG's in western countries.
I think your observations fit some types of WG's in China, but not all. Some high class WG's clearly have a choice and have become very wealthy. Some are university graduates and are quite sophisticated. They choose the profession because it supports a lifestyle choice. My ex GF was making 150K a month - compare that with what most would make as an office worker. Some become kept women or mistresses, they get apartments and BMW's. It's also a choice.

SE Asia Joe

12-01-06, 05:44

There is always a choice! Most girls in TWC do not turn to prostitution, it is a choice based on weighing up pros( excuse the pun) and cons. ..people use what assets they have to make a living. .... but IMHO, don't pretend that a little Thai girl who has 1-2 customers per night for 2 years isn't a prostitute, or the same in China/QUOTE].....

..............

[QUOTE} . ..That they want to shelter this from their families does not matter a fuck. Again, I can't speak for them, but I guess that Rubber, Sasha or China would not meet a new potential boyfriend and say ; oh, I am a prostitutem fancy a relationship?'
WGs are the bottom of the pile in the west too, probably moreso than the east. [Quote}

.................
[QUOTE}Finally, have you ever been in a job where you earned a lot of money, then quit it and earned nothing?
....To think someone can only be a WG for a few years and then settle down with a husband who earns less in a month than she can in a week is ludicrous. If anything, in the west, prostitution is a viscious circle. But this is only MPOV
..............
Yes there is always a choice - but so much more limited choices in TWC - I'm keeping a mistress and my expenses for her is approx US$1,300 per month - compared to US$85/month that she was earning working in a factory 12 hours a day with only 2 days off a month. Yes she is basically a prostitute, and it was her choice but please also consider that if blame is to be placed for this, I would need to share the blame for giving her such an attractive choice. But place yourself in the shoes of countless little factory girls in China - whilst all the while seeing all the fancy free spending people all around her - how much choice do they have?? What? work hard in the factory and rise up in the facotry - when there is 1,2,3 or even 5 thousands in the same factory as her??
...........

I've thought about this again and now agree with you in that in the West Pros are probably looked down more than at TWC - reason being that in the West There IS so much more choice - and thus prostitution IS such an easy/lazy way out. And as far as sheltering their families from this reality - yes again, I would venture to guess that its true in both the West as well as TWC - but the reality is that there so many more instances in China where pros do stop and then go back to their own villages to get married - very common indeed. I would again venture to guess that instead in the west it would be next to impossible for a pro to turn her life around and start afresh - seeing as originally a Western Pro is more likely to have taken "the easy way out" when chosing her direction in life. Girls in TWC - IMHO - are more determined to just make their money - enough for them to start some little biz in their own village to support themselves and their parents - and then get out of the life.
...............
I have seen this happen COUNTLESS times in China. Take from me - this is quite common
SE Asia Joe

Ps. Jeez - I wish I knew how to quote, reply quote, reply etc like I see other posters do!! How do you do that??

Rubber Nursey

12-01-06, 06:53

SE Asia Joe,

Firstly, please don't apologise for jumping in. Welcome! :) Secondly, yes, the discussion here quite often has a 'Western' focus, largely because the main posters have usually been from Western countries. However, I personally believe that when it comes to issues of 'morality' - and discussions of how/when/why people become sex workers or visit sex workers - it has very little to do with geography. The reasons we start working/paying and the stigma we suffer because of it is, I believe, universal.

I've thought about this again and now agree with you in that in the West Pros are probably looked down more than at TWC - reason being that in the West There IS so much more choice - and thus prostitution IS such an easy/lazy way out.
I have to say it - sex work involves having sex with complete strangers, risking disease and/or pregnancy, often being treated badly by clients and/or brothel owners and, most importantly, living with the stigma of being a wh*re. That means living a 'double life' and lying to friends and family, being discriminated against in housing, finances, courts, taxation and welfare (to name but a few) and all the devastating consequences your 'secret past' can have on future personal relationships. Sex work is - by NO stretch of the imagination - an EASY/LAZY way out.

Also, I'd like to ask why you would assume that women in Western countries have more choices than those in TWC? Unemployment rates are high in the West and, more importantly, expected skill levels in employees are even higher. How likely is it that a divorced Mum, with no formal qualifications and out of the workforce for ten years while married and raising children, is going to get a job over a single, 20-something, University graduate? She's not. The only options for her are menial labour or some part-time gig at a shop or whatever, generally on very low wages. People in TWCs tend to have large, extended families, who can often take care of the childcare while women work. Those families are not so common in the West, where childcare (IF you can find it) can cost as much as $300 per child, per week. That's a HUGE chunk out of the below-average wages of a checkout chick - if not impossible.

I have often said on this Forum how I came to work in the sex industry. I was left with HUGE debts from my ex-husband (family law doesn't always favour the woman, I can assure you) and was pushed even further into debt by my efforts to escape him. I had two small children, no formal education, an eviction notice and no other way of getting the money in time, other than sex work. For me, it was the ONLY way out that I could see - it was either prostitution, or homelessness. I don't see my motivations as being any different than those of a woman supporting her children in a TWC.

Girls in TWC - IMHO - are more determined to just make their money - enough for them to start some little biz in their own village to support themselves and their parents - and then get out of the life.
I said just a few posts down (when I was ranting at Rock about what sex workers do with their money) that many sex workers get into the industry to pay off debts, buy a house/car, pay for Uni, etc, then get out again. Most don't make a conscious decision to make hooking a life-long career...at least, not at first. Obviously many start working and decide that they enjoy it (or at least that the money and working conditions are good) and so they stay - but many just do what they have to do and then leave.

I would again venture to guess that instead in the west it would be next to impossible for a pro to turn her life around and start afresh
It IS difficult to start fresh in the West, but I think it's largely to do with the paper-trail we all leave behind us in developed countries. Gaps in our resumes (our time in the sex industry) make 'regular' employment difficult. Prostitution convictions make future employment near impossible. Filling out sex industry workplace details on finance applications or tax declarations, often comes back to bite you in the arse when you try to get a job or borrow money or rent a house or begin a relationship in the future. But I don't think it's any less difficult for a TWC woman. The stigma still remains, the guilt (over lying, or lying by omission, if you don't tell your new partner) is always there, the fear of being recognised by an ex-client or ex-worker haunts you for the rest of your life.

Sorry, that was a lot more than I planned on writing! If you like, I'll send you a PM and explain how to do the quote thing. :)

SE Asia Joe

12-01-06, 09:02

se asia joe,
however, i personally believe that when it comes to issues of 'morality' - and discussions of how/when/why people become sex workers or visit sex workers - it has very little to do with geography. the reasons we start working/paying and the stigma we suffer because of it is, i believe, universal.
sex work is - by no stretch of the imagination - an easy/lazy way out.
also, i'd like to ask why you would assume that women in western countries have more choices than those in twc?
.........
people in twcs tend to have large, extended families, who can often take care of the childcare while women work. those families are not so common in the west, where childcare (if you can find it) can cost as much as $300 per child, per week. that's a huge chunk out of the below-average wages of a checkout chick - if not impossible.
.....
for me, it was the only way out that i could see - it was either prostitution, or homelessness. i don't see my motivations as being any different than those of a woman supporting her children in a twc.

...........
obviously many start working and decide that they enjoy it (or at least that the money and working conditions are good) and so they stay - but many just do what they have to do and then leave.
it is difficult to start fresh in the west, but i think it's largely to do with the paper-trail we all leave behind us in developed countries. gaps in our resumes (our time in the sex industry) make 'regular' employment difficult. prostitution convictions make future employment near impossible. filling out sex industry workplace details on finance applications or tax declarations, often comes back to bite you in the arse when you try to get a job or borrow money or rent a house or begin a relationship in the future. but i don't think it's any less difficult for a twc woman. the stigma still remains, the guilt (over lying, or lying by omission, if you don't tell your new partner) is always there, the fear of being recognised by an ex-client or ex-worker haunts you for the rest of your life.
........
sorry, that was a lot more than i planned on writing! if you like, i'll send you a pm and explain how to do the quote thing. :)

wow - thanks for the well thought out and comprehensive reply. and first of all, yes please do send me instructions on how to quote/reply/quote etc.
....
i definitely see your point of view that whether you're in a western or twc, sex work carries a lot of stigma.... and please do forgive me for stating that sex work is an easy/lazy way out. but, the reason why i say this is that i do see that there are a lot of choices for females in the western world. first, your social welfare system is so much more superior - whereby i cannot perceive anybody ever really going hungry in a western country - whilst the same cannot be said for a twc.
secondly, because of minimum wage laws, a person can still work at a regular job and survive. i put myself thru university and grad school by working at menial/manual labour - all the way from working as a janitor, grease monkey, collecting trash, farm work, salvage yard, baker etc to even being an asistant interior decorator. i did what i needed to get by and as far as jopbs are concerned, anywhere i go in australia, u.s., canada, uk etc , i always see the help wanted posters in shops everywhere. no i'm of course not talking about any high paying job - just minimum wage jobs. but from what i experienced myself, these minimum wage jobs - even only working part time whilst going to school - were more than enough to survive - and i even had quite a bit left over for school fees, some dating, some beers... and even the 2 cars and 2 motorcycles that i had when in uni.
third, a western government do have a lot in place for anybody who wants to progress to do so i.e. scholarship, work grants, supplements, food stamps, study grants, student loans - and being the rather red-neck imho, there are plenty of choices in a western vs. twc - where so many things are so stacked against a young female. working at factories - (china is after all "the factory to the world!") for us$85 per month - and working over 72 hours a week - is that a life at all? and yet, so many of these girls do exactly that.... until they just cannot stand it any more and the attraction of "the other side" is just tooooo much - when one can make as much in one tumble as working a whole month in ahot sweaty factory. this is what i refer to as being limited choice
.........
extended families?? do you actually know what that means in china? china with the one child policy and the poor farmer and his wife barely scraping on an annual income of us400 per year in some places. what is that one child going to do.... if she's a girl? yes, my gal tried for over a year working at us$85/month and sending back $65/month of her salary to her parents. then somebody or a bufallo gets sick... what next? and whilst i do see that you've had a tough time/do empathize with you.... to a point.... surely you can also appreciate what i'm saying about western world standards? sure it would have been tough for you and even next to impossible - but the operative word s here is "next to."
.......
yes, i do see that it's a lot tougher for a wg in the western world to ever be able to revert back to "normalcy" but then again, i'm an optimist and i do hope that you will also try to be optimistic. in the west, people always say that "if there's a will, there's a way" - and i do definitely agree. so good luck to you - and that is if you're thinking of a way out. if not, my best wishes still stands. hope i'm not being too harsh etc
se asia joe

SE Asia Joe

12-01-06, 09:20

I think your observations fit some types of WG's in China, but not all. Some high class WG's clearly have a choice and have become very wealthy. Some are university graduates and are quite sophisticated. They choose the profession because it supports a lifestyle choice. My ex GF was making 150K a month - compare that with what most would make as an office worker. Some become kept women or mistresses, they get apartments and BMW's. It's also a choice.
WOW - 150K Yuan a month? That's Yuan 6,000/day for 25 days/month. How was she able to do this? The most I EVER paid for an all nighter was Yuan 3,000 for a Girl from Passion in Beijing - and Passion in those days was absolutely TOPS in quality and price. Could she have perhaps been exagerrating just a bit what she was making.... just to extract a bit more from you? Yes, I DO know a gal that was getting US$20,000 per month from her guy - but this guy is one of those super-duper-in the Fortune 500 list rich guys - and I suspect the only reason he was paying that much was.... just to show us his friends how rich he is! And that didn't last but 3 months! and yes she was driving a 7 series BMW - with the fancy 8888 licence plate even - but of course that car belongs to HIM - and she was back in the fron seat of taxis when her sojourn with him was over.
And as far as girls in China who does make a conscious choice to be a prostitute - I still say that its because of the limited choice that they have here. Even the university graduate etc - I pay new grads starting at Yuan 2,000/month and they're very glad to work for me! You of course know that China has such an oversupply of U grads that they're a dime a dozen and cannot find jobs - so again - limited choice. Compare working a month for me vs. the 3,000 I paid the Passion girl; There is not that kind of disparity in the Western World.
SE Asia Joe

Rubber Nursey

12-01-06, 10:05

But, the reason why I say this is that I do see that there are a lot of choices for females in the western world. First, your social welfare system is so much more superior - whereby I cannot perceive anybody ever really going hungry in a Western Country - whilst the same cannot be said for a TWC....Secondly, because of minimum wage laws, a person can still work at a regular job and survive...Third, a Western government do have a lot in place for anybody who wants to progress to do so
I agree with everything you've said. Of course most Westerners get more support from their Governments and absolutely, minimum wages and/or welfare payments are enough to survive on - for most people. There's a few situations where that may not be the case, though. For example, a single person may be able to live on an average wage, with money left over for little luxuries, but a single Mum with children - especially if she has to pay out more than half her wage on childcare in order to work - is gonna have a lot less money left over at the end of the week, if any. And a minimum wage may be enough to cover 'usual' expenses (rent, food, fuel, etc) but it's not much help when you have massive debts to pay on top of those expenses.

Also, Westerners are probably more likely to be living well above their means than people in TWCs. Yes, that's self-inflicted, so it's probably our own fault, but it really hurts when a crisis hits. What happens when you've been living on, say, $1500 a week managing a business and that business goes broke and you suddenly find yourself unemployed - or you've been married to a high income-earner and without warning, he leaves you for another woman? Yes, you can go get a job paying an average wage, or go on welfare, but how are you gonna cover your existing $1500 a week expenses when you're now earning $400 a week? And that doesn't include the time it takes to FIND that job and start getting paid...every day without cash, your debts keep mounting.

In my situation, for example, I could probably have paid the rent and kept the kids fed on welfare, until I managed to find a job. But I couldn't keep up with my car payments and they were threatening repossession and without a car, I would never have got a job. To keep the car, all the while hoping to have a job any minute now, I was spending the rent money, which eventually lead to an eviction notice. To make up the back rent, I would have had to stop paying the car payments - and that doesn't take into account all the other bills that were coming in at the same time, that I wasn't able to pay. In the end, the only way I could see to earn immediate cash, and lots of it, was prostitution.

...until they just cannot stand it any more and the attraction of "the other side" is just tooooo much - when one can make as much in one tumble as working a whole month in ahot sweaty factory.
That's why MOST of us choose to work in the sex industry - Western, Third World or otherwise!! :)

Extended families?? Do you actually know what that means in China?
Sorry, my bad. One of the risks of broadly categorising the 'Third World', I guess. I was thinking more of Thailand and places like that, where a lot of young women leave their children with relatives and go to the big city, working and sending money home to support the whole family. I agree, it would be hard in China. However, being a working mother is difficult for ANY Mum, regardless of where they live. Being a Mum is a fulltime job and impacts greatly on your earning capacity.

In the West, people always say that "if there's a will, there's a way" - and I do definitely agree. So good luck to you - and that is if you're thinking of a way out. If not, my best wishes still stands. Hope I'm not being too harsh etc
Actually, I haven't worked in the industry for about three years now. Not that I chose to quit - that was kinda beyond my control (long story). I'd still be doing it today, if I could! However, I've certainly had no problems 'starting fresh' after leaving. The only thing I live with is that one day, it might all come out that I was a hooker and my friends and family will be devastated. Not ME - I feel no shame whatsoever for doing a job that I loved with a passion and credit with teaching me self-respect, self-confidence and expanding my sexual horizons - but the fear that my kids or parents or partner could be hurt by the information, is terrifying to me. Mind you, I'm heavily involved in sex worker activism and very vocal in discussions about prostitution, so if I get 'outed' one day, it will probably be my own fault!

Alex Rock

12-01-06, 15:24

WOW - 150K Yuan a month? That's Yuan 6,000/day for 25 days/month. ........ Could she have perhaps been exagerrating just a bit what she was making.... just to extract a bit more from you? She worked in Passion a few days a month as did a certain few who made most money on call outs and providing new high class girls for some regular client pools. It was a hell of an eye opener for me to find out the world my GF had hidden from me, and that several of her BMW driving friends were also in the same business.

Having got to know some of those girls quite well as friends was what made me see they choose the lifestyle even though they could easily get ordinary jobs. Some would end up as high class mistresses, some stayed independent, one or two married and never lt their hsubands know what they had done to get so rich - they'd usually say they'd had A (single) wealthy boyfriend.

It also amazed me the kind of money some guys, mainly Chinese - would spend on entertaining.

Bango Cheito

12-02-06, 00:57

I DO find it very ironic that many societies in which prostitution is neither legal nor officially tolerated make it so hard for girls to get out of it once they get in. Like Nursey pointed out, one conviction on your record and you can forget about ever getting a decent straight job.

And here in NYC you could not possibly live by yourself on minimum wage. You couldn't even doing it renting a room somewhere with shared facilities and doing the ramen noodle thing.

I know one girl who had been in the business for a few years, even made a few porn movies, and was just sick of sex work and wanted out, so she volunteered for Iraq. She got busted the very WEEK she was supposed to stop working and the military rejected her, so back to fucking and sucking for her! Amazing, they wouldn't even take her for Iraq!!!

Robbaf

12-02-06, 02:32

so she volunteered for Iraq.

Tell her to volunteer for a civilian company in Iraq. She will make good money, tax free and she can bank it all, come back and get a new start on life.

I have two friends who have made over 200K in two years.

Robb

Alex Rock

12-02-06, 05:24

I once read an article that asserted that 50% of women would sell sex if it meant survival for their children - it was referring to German women after the 2nd World War and White Russians or French who lost all their possessions after regime changes. Who knows what that number really would be and how it was derived.

When I went through a phase of trying to understand WG, especially my ex - I talked to lots of WG's in all kinds of places, from all kinds of backgrounds, and don't laugh at me - I'd pay them a big tip just to talk. ALL, without exception were very happy to take the tip and talk very freely, especially when I told them I'd found out my GF had been a WG. It was like they welcomed the chance to talk freely with someone who was genuinely interested and didn't look down on them.

One was a student, she had a target to make 3000 RMB a month and that was it. Her measure of success was how few nights she could do it in.

Another was a skating/ski-instructor from Harbin, (Her thighs were rock hard) she had only earned 400RMB a month and her husband treated her like s..t, she wanted to earn 200,000 and go home.

Another had a mortgage for a nice apartment and she was afraid she couldn't make the monthly payments. She always tried to have enough for 2 months. She found a German BF who wanted her to give up her work but wouldn't pay her anything. She'd work when he was out of town.

Another was a doctor from Xinjiang. (Extremely attractive and intelligent) I asked her a bunch of medical questions and hospital procedures which convinced me she really was a doctor. She could earn 2,000RMB a month in Xinjiang working long hours vs. about 70,000 a month in Passion or Diamond Age.

Another was a new girl starting at a MP. She was excited to make 2-3000 a month vs the 400 she'd make in her village and she really enjoyed sex - at first. When I saw her a couple of months later, she was tired and had no more enthusiasm.

Another was an amazing girl who loved being a wh*re. She was totally into the role and would make fun of herself. She'd joke about the things she would do for clients and would have fun every day.

We all know these kinds of stories. For all of these girls it was a choice, but on their own circumstances.

Rubber Nursey's point that it is a job like any other is the way we should look at it. WG's are people like the rest of us doing jobs they choose, and providing services we like. If some are druggies - it's not because they are wg's.

I'd argue that in all countries, TWC and richer countries, there's no profession that pays so well for "unskilled" labor. Once people get above the poverty line or survival line, then it's a choice which women make in any country.

One of Sasha's points that bugs me is the honesty question. I tacitly supported ex wg's hiding what they'd done from their husbands. But then re-thought that. Now it bugs me a lot. The flip side is that we guys who monger are rarely honest to our wives or gf's when we do it, yet we seem so morally superior when we find out girls can hide their pasts or what they do for a job.

Another tack on this line of thinking is that we all have things we'd rather not let others know - things we're not proud of or things we've done we don't want to talk about. Is it being dishonest to want to put something away and forget it. Not telling someone about your past is different from lying about your past.

China Lily's idea that "all men" need variety and she'd accept it, is something
most guys would love to hear their wives say. She can encourage her man to be honest by being open to him doing things other women would get mad about and force their men to hide.

Honesty - easier said than done ...

China Lily

12-02-06, 05:59

- reason being that in the West There IS so much more choice - and thus prostitution IS such an easy/lazy way out. And as far as sheltering their families from this reality - yes again, I would venture to guess that its true in both the West as well as TWC - but the reality is that there so many more instances in China where pros do stop and then go back to their own villages to get married - very common indeed. I would again venture to guess that instead in the west it would be next to impossible for a pro to turn her life around and start afresh - seeing as originally a Western Pro is more likely to have taken "the easy way out" when chosing her direction in life. Girls in TWC - IMHO - are more determined to just make their money - enough for them to start some little biz in their own village to support themselves and their parents - and then get out of the life.
...............
I have seen this happen COUNTLESS times in China. Take from me - this is quite common
SE Asia JoeSE Asia Joe,

I think you only met one kind of wg in China. Many are like you say, they try to get money to go home and live a better life, but many city girls, models, dancers and students choose to do this job because it gets them a lot of money.

It is not an easy choice especially for the lower class type who risk being robbed, beaten or the customer don't pay or they get arrested. It is not easy even for the most beautiful sexy girls because there is competition from new girls. Why a customer chooses another girl over me? When girls compete for the good customers. We have to look pretty, we have to smile and laugh when jokes are not funny, we have to go to bars and restaurants that we don't like, we get looked at and by all kinds of people, some customers make you wait to pay - that why I always want money first if I can.

People respect you if you have money and you look good and you hold your head high. If you act high class people respect you, If you act low class people dont respect you. Its the same for guys in bars and the same for working girls. Many girls dont tell their families what they do. Sometimes their families guess or find out, then some families accept it, others do everything they can to stop it.

The money is only good if you compete well. It is not easy way out

Rock Dog

12-02-06, 16:54

the flow of the discussion is going in a very interesting direction.

china lily said:
many are like you say, they try to get money to go home and live a better life, but many city girls, models, dancers and students choose to do this job because it gets them a lot of money.

bingo! most people do things because they are motivated to benefit themselves. not only that, but they will act according to economic principles. this is to say that, given one or more options, an individual will invariably pick the one that they perceive to give the greatest benefit proportional to the costs.

this is why many girls would never consider being a wg as a career option. not because there's something inherently wrong with it, but because they perceive the social drawbacks (ie. peer disapproval) to be too high a cost to justify any financial benefits. other women aren't as concerned about the social costs, so it's an acceptable choice. still others will try and have it both ways.... make the money and avoid the social penalties by maintaining strict secrecy.

i've often wondered about why so many cultures give wgs such a hard time. this is particularly true for non-wg women in those cultures. my guess is that they don't appreciate the competition for their men's attention (and money). however, i'd be willing to bet that there's more to it than that. perhaps, at some subliminal level they are trying to maintain some kind of balance? if being a wg was perfectly socially acceptable, it would be the career of choice for the vast majority of women.

so, what you get is..... social disapproval limiting the number of women who will be willing to choose this career. this keeps their numbers comparatively low in an environment where the demand for their services is comparatively high. low supply and high demand always equals high prices..... which in turn ensures that there will always be a number of women who will choose to be a wg. it's a kind of balance..... there's nothing moral or religious needed to explain it, not when simple economics will do. and that is why i had earlier asked about how well our forum wgs were doing financially.

rock

Rubber Nursey

12-02-06, 20:07

which is what i've said all along, rock - it's a job like any other and we do it for the same reasons that anyone else seeks gainful employment. :)

over the years, i've met very few men and women who started work with any real 'inside knowledge' of the industry. occasionally, you meet people who had family members or close friends/partners who worked and those people knew exactly what to expect when they started work. but overwhelmingly, most people i know had no previous experience around sex workers to base their decision on. their perception of the sex industry was based on the same information that mine was - what the media told them.

thanks to the news and the movies and society in general, i 'knew' what to expect before i started working. drugs, pimps, beatings, diseases, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)...earning thousands of dollars a week in a seedy, filthy old building, being forced to fulfil the sick desires of perverted clients by a male 'pimp' brothel owner. no shit, that's what i thought awaited me. and yes, i was desperate enough to risk all of that and call a nearby massage parlour for a job.

and that's something i often try to explain to people when they suggest that choosing sex work is the 'easy way out' and also when it comes to the concept of 'choice' in general. for many sex workers, our perception of the sex industry - and of sex workers themselves - was the same as the rest of society before we started working. the decision to venture into (what we are led to believe is) the seedy underbelly of society, is truly terrifying. that demonstrates just what sort of position many of us are in when we make that decision. it's not about whether we can accept the risk of "social disapproval"...it's about whether we feel we have any other option.

of course, once i started working i discovered it was nothing like the movies had told me it would be. i loved it and freely made the decision to keep working, even after my financial problems had eased. in fact, i worked to pay myself through a course to get a 'respectable' job and after only a couple of months, quit that 'respectable' job and went back to fulltime sex work. it wasn't so much about money - my 'respectable' job had the potential to make me similar money to what i was earning in a brothel - but in working conditions and overall job satisfaction, sex work won hands down. and that, i fear, is one of the main reasons why sex work is slandered and stereotyped and women are discouraged from participating in it.

no, i'd better not go there...that particular rant could go on all night. :)

Sinanju Master

12-02-06, 20:29

Many women would never consider being a WG 'cos of the root of their misgivings: religion. Not necessarily a woman being RELIGIOUS, but the most common early childhood environment where kids are taught that such a thing is bad. Those early experiences can last a lifetime. Such teachings cause any society to look DOWN on a WG as unclean, morally if not physically. From that can spread the negatives associated with their profession: harrassment by the devout, in a nutshell. Religion (or shall I say, the ways in which it is craftily used to achieve a certain goal) fascinates me with the hypocrisy of its followers. I'm SURE there are those who can remember Jim Bakker. Then again, with a (then) hottie like Jessica Hahn, I'm not sure I'D be able to resist fucking one of my flock if I were in his place! If the devout didn't pitch such fire and brimstone into the faces of WG's and simply realized the beneficial nature of their profession, I wouldn't have such contempt for them. They woudn't have to put WG's upon a pedestal (I do that so I can look under their dresses! LOL) but back off and leave them be. If they're gonna preach the fire and brimstone, do it to the errant sheep, which are simply seeking a release the devout can not offer.

RD, your economical analysis reminded me of what saw on the History Channel last nite: "Old West Tech: Prostitution". It gave a history of prostitution in the Old West and stated that close to 100% of the propspectors in Sutter's Mill were MALE. Imagine a city FULL of (sometimes ARMED) MEN with no outlet for release. It would make Baghdad look like a springtime picnic.

Rubber Nursey

12-02-06, 20:43

I DO find it very ironic that many societies in which prostitution is neither legal nor officially tolerated make it so hard for girls to get out of it once they get in....
I know one girl who had been in the business for a few years, even made a few porn movies, and was just sick of sex work and wanted out, so she volunteered for Iraq. She got busted the very WEEK she was supposed to stop working and the military rejected her, so back to fucking and sucking for her!

Bango Cheito (Welcome, by the way! :) )

That is something that REALLY infuriates me. So many politicians carry on about 'exit and retraining' strategies for sex workers - but a piece of paper with 'University Graduate' stamped on it, is not gonna get you a job when your police record has 'WH*RE' stamped on it.

Street based sex workers in my city are constantly arrested. They go to court and get fined large amounts of money. Ummmm...hello? How on earth do the courts expect them to GET that money??!! Of course, they go back out onto the street to earn money to pay off their fines. They get caught again - second offence, bigger fines this time. Back onto the streets to work them off. Eventually they get caught again and the judge decides that the previous attempts at 'encouragement' to stop them street working (ie: the fines and the criminal record) haven't worked - so maybe a stint in jail will help them see the error of their ways. With numerous prostitution convictions and now jail time served, how is that woman EVER gonna get a 'respectable' job??? She is destined to work in the sex industry for perhaps the rest of her life.

And there are so many horror stories of women (and men, for that matter) who work in the sex industry and pay their way through Uni, get a great job and then their 'seedy past' is discovered and they're thrown straight out. We had a high school teacher in my state not so long ago who was found to be an ex-hooker - she was not only thrown out of her job, but plastered all over the media, ensuring that she would have difficulty getting employment in ANY profession from then on. Except maybe back in a brothel.

The powers-that-be say they want us to all get out of the industry and get 'real jobs'...and then crap on us when we actually try and do it.

Rock Dog

12-02-06, 22:17

rn,

my take on that point is that there must be a large element of jealousy underlying these actions.

think about it.... i went to school for 8 years straight. i graduated with the ability to earn a really good living, but was also saddling with some major student loans. imagine how a woman in my position would feel if she saw some other woman come along, skip the years of school and go straight into the high earnings without a penny of debt.

don't anybody kid themselves! of course people are going to feel jealous about something like that. they'd never admit it out loud, but still.... that's a big part of what's behind so many of the bad attitudes and so much of the righteous indignation.

it's one thing to see some wg having sex for money if she's just scraping by. but when that same girl makes triple what you do (and in half the time) many people get pissed off because they feel it's unfair. hence, the crappy treatment..... society at large figures if she (the wg) has to suffer some lousy treatment in order to make a good living, then that somehow "balances things out". this is the same phenomenon that explains why the average person feels a little surge of pleasure whenever someone important/famous/successful gets taken down (eg. martha stewart, enron ceo's, jimmy swaggart etc.)

the opposite holds true when a so-called "little guy" gets stepped on. we are able to feel sorry for them because we perceived them as being weaker/lower than us. those who are stronger/smarter/richer or just plain doing better for themselves seem to trigger a threatening feeling in others who aren't doing as well for themselves. this might be because the others feel like they're being out-competed. again, this goes a long way towards explaining why wgs get such a hard time socially and legally. society's way of making sure they don't get ahead too fast or too easily.

this is a big part of why the sex-trade is portrayed so negatively in the media. people want to believe that it must be awful.... that's the only way it can ever make any sense to them. if it wasn't so bad........... then what?
a logical line of reasoning from that point would lead to some very uncomfortable territory.

comments?

rock

Bango Cheito

12-03-06, 06:55

I don't think it's all that easy though, and I don't think all women (or men) are cut out for it. It takes a good deal of physical and mental discipline most people just don't have. You have a whole new standard of cleanliness to maintain, to prevent disease and keep yourself attractive at all times. Not to mention the tremendous abuse your body parts take in the course of a normal working day. Think about what it means for a WG to offer something like anal on the regular menu for her clients. And Murphy's law dictates that if they tear their ass one day, the next day EVERYBODY will want anal!

I'm a professional musician myself, which is supposedly something everybody wants to do, and people have the misconception that it's 'easy'. You wouldn't BELIEVE the discipline and the things I have to give up in order to make sure I have a voice that works when I want it to the way I want it to so I can sing for my supper. WG's and singers have one thing in common, their bodies ARE their instruments!

Victoria007

12-03-06, 08:23

I want to thank everybody here for all of your honesty and moral support you gave me through my marriage crisis. Although I don't know you, I feel a kind of open friendship. You all really helped change the way I looked at my husband, my marriage, myself, sex and sexual services.

My husband and I talked several nights, and when I stopped blaming him and making him feel guilty he gradually opened up. When I showed him this website and the comments from each of you, he was flabbergasted and said you were saying things he' d been afraid to admit. Then he completely opened up and became honest about his "trists" with escorts, how he felt about sex with me and with different women. He showed me magazines and videos he'd had hidden way.

I insisted on going with him to London and meeting the Polish escort he had confessed about. I just wanted to see her as a real person and to talk with her. He was very uncomfortable about it but eventually gave in. I promised I wouldn't make a big fuss and I was eager to meet her until she actually showed up. When I saw her, she was much nicer than I had imagined and made me feel insecure. I can understand why men like escorts like that. She wasn't just extremely attractive with perfect skin and a gorgious body. She dressed very well and was very friendly to me. My husband left me alone with her for about an hour. She was nice, interested in me and very articulate about herself, her work and what her clients want. She told me she is sometimes hired by couples, and sometimes couples want both male and female escorts. The last thing I dreamed of was that we'd end up in a threesome that night. It was an experience which I could never have imagined but I found it both unbelievably cathartic and a complete physical release. It opened me up to experiences I'd never dreamed of. I've never had any experience with another woman and was blown away having my husband and this very sexy woman make love with me. I also watched lots of little things she did which I now try myself. I realise now that Rick had been bored with our sex life - I had thought I always "gave" him sex when he wanted and that was enough, but I now realise he wasn't getting any excitement and sometimes I was making it seem like a favour. We agreed it wasn't his fault nor mine. We both needed to be more honest with each other.

I've learned a great deal over this last four weeks. Things I never expected. My husband has promised not to ever do anything behind my back again, and I agreed that if he occasionally feels the need for sex with other women to tell me first and to either let me know or let me be part of it. I can hardly believe I'd accept this as a solution. I rationalize by thinking that most men do it anyway and hide it from their wives so I'm not putting my head in the sand. Ironically my husband is so open now about what he likes and what he wants, that our sex life is better than ever. I don't know if we've made the right choices but at least I feel I've recovered honesty in our relationship. I know some of you might disagree that this is the best approach, but I'd rather have this than lose all the positive things of our marriage.

I also think I understand men much better after reading the threads on this site. Men have to hide their sexual thoughts. I've also completely changed my views about sex workers. I don't use the "p" word any more.

Thank you Petemcc, Lazarro, Bango Cheito, Rock Dog, Sinanju Master, Sasha, China Lily and others who write here.

Thank you all again and again!

Alex Rock

12-03-06, 10:02

How many people are really confident in themselves that they can simply let others do what they want as long as no-one gets harmed.?

The biggest hypocrits are the people who make the most noise about morality. Look how many bible thumping evangelists and even a congressman (Foley) in the US turn out to sexually harass boys or women and use male "prostitutes"

American Association of Evangelicals president Ted Haggard, who consulted the White House on policy matters, resigned after admitting he regularly visited a male "prostitute". Catholic priests frequently get exposed for "feeling" boys.

Maybe they're so vocal against "immorality" because they are afraid to reveal their own NORMAL sexual desires.

Rock Dog

12-03-06, 10:31

A lot of these so-called do-gooders crusade against something as a way of coming into contact with it.

If you could read minds, you'd find that a lot of anti-prostitution campaigners probably fantasize about WGs all day long.

When I was in Zambia (africa) I found a lot of guys that were racist/bigots would actually go out and find the blackest women they could and then have sex with them.

It's all the same principle...... there is no greater turn-on than "the forbidden fruit", whatever it may be.

Rock

George90

12-03-06, 18:32

i don't think it's all that easy though, and i don't think all women (or men) are cut out for it. it takes a good deal of physical and mental discipline most people just don't have. you have a whole new standard of cleanliness to maintain, to prevent disease and keep yourself attractive at all times. not to mention the tremendous abuse your body parts take in the course of a normal working day. think about what it means for a wg to offer something like anal on the regular menu for her clients. and murphy's law dictates that if they tear their ass one day, the next day everybody will want anal!

i agree with most of what you wrote. i just want to point out that differences between people may cause widely different results from the same effort or behavior.

i relate something a provider told me in response to my asking about getting tired. "we women can go for a long time, hours, if the man is average sized and we like him." her body parts do not undergo tremendous abuse in the course of her day's work. what you are describing sounds like [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123).

Rubber Nursey

12-04-06, 00:39

George, the qualifier she gave - "if the man is average sized and we like him" - can definitely make a difference. Not that I'm saying that I spent every working day in pain! But sometimes you can end up feeling a bit worse for wear. As much as I enjoy an above-average sized penis :) two or three 'extra large' men in a row can get a bit uncomfortable, as can a few in a row who want it hard and fast, or those who prefer deep penetration positions, especially when they go for an extended time. I was hurt quite a few times by guys being ultra-rough with vibrators (I ended up only using them with regulars) and you can get really damaged by guys who pound away at you for hours because they're drunk, on drugs (especially amphetamines) or taking Viagra when they don't need it. Also, I can go all day bareback (with my significant other, of course) but condoms always irritate the hell outta me. Mind you, with experience, you learn ways to avoid some of these situations OR you can ask a client to stop, or just refuse the booking in the first place.

The most tiring thing for me, though, was giving massages! I originally started work in a massage-only parlour and sometimes I could barely move my arms at the end of the working day. When I eventually went to full-service, I used to try and encourage guys to start again after they'd cum once, rather than give them a massage!! LOL

And Bango Cheito is right about the discipline thing. It takes a lot more effort than people think to be a sex worker - a good one, anyway. Anyone can lay there like a cold fish and let a man have sex with them, but they're not gonna get too much repeat business, are they. You have to be creative, fit, well-groomed, well-read, ever vigilant for violence and/or STI risks (including clients removing the condom) and/or 'misbehaviour' (eg. trying to do anal when you've said no)...and you've gotta do all of this - when you're sick, when you're in pain, when you've got your period, when you're upset by personal problems at home, when you've just finished with another client who slammed you for the full hour and now you can barely walk - with a great big smile. :) Not always as easy as it sounds.

Alex Rock

12-04-06, 01:30

After a day's work, would you still have the inclination to have sex with your significant other?

I sensed my ex wg gf wasn't interested in sex when she got home at night (after she'd been with a client) - I can understand. But then I guess any woman tired after work would be the same. Is it different for wg?

One wg who worked as a masseuse in a hotel told me she and some of her colleagues would have a few clients every day and would "warm up" after 2-3 clients and she'd enjoy the 4th client much more than the first. I guess it's because they didn't come with the clients but they got some cumulative stimulation.

Alex Rock

12-04-06, 01:49

Accepting it's not the "easy/lazy way out" and that it's risky and tough, China Lily, RN and Sasha, what was it like in the beginning? It must be a huge psychological step to take.

How did you start ? how well can you remember your first time? and how often do you (did you) think about quitting? How did you feel at first, then later? Is it a matter of getting enough cash or finding your prince? Could you start another business or go back to other work? Apart from the money, would it be a job you'd like if it didn't pay so well?

For guys who have had freebies or girlfriends, - I speak from my own experience, my first time with a working girl was not planned, I was down and lonely and wondered into a bar. I felt shitty about myself having paid for sex when I'd always had it for free before.

Rubber Nursey

12-04-06, 01:49

Rock,

I believe that the anti-prostitution crusade has ALWAYS been a feminist issue. I don't mean that feminists are the ones who cause the trouble (although they certainly cause a LOT of it these days), but that criminalisation - and the resulting bad treatment of sex workers by society - has always been about the supression of female sexuality. My two greatest passions are history and religion. In many ancient societies, women held the power. Women could create a new life inside them - can you imagine what an incredible feat that must have been, to people who didn't understand the mechanics of conception??!! Female sexuality was also revered. In many places, having sex with a priestess or temple prostitute was how people worshipped their deities. In some cultures, the sacred wh*re was actually considered to be the goddess incarnate.

The Church (that is, the Christian/Catholic faith) did everything they could to suppress - destroy, actually - that female power. The witch hunts started. Midwives and 'wise women' had secret knowledge about the female reproductive system (ie. women's power to create new life) that men could never hope to understand...and that could not be tolerated. In books/laws like the Malleus Maleficarum, the Church described the inherent EVIL of women's sexuality and they preached the view so fervently that eventually even WOMEN believed it. The Church removed women's rights as citizens, both in the public and political arenas and in marriage (eg. the right to property, to sole custody of children, etc). Women were no longer allowed to have sex with anyone except their husband, who owned them outright.

And prostitution was criminalised - or should I say, INDEPENDENT prostitution was criminalised. For a large part of history after the advent of Christianity, brothels were CHURCH OWNED AND RUN. This took the inherent CONTROL that a sex worker exercises over her clients and put it back into the hands of men. And that is what Governments do to this day. Laws created by MEN will still not allow women complete autonomy over their sexuality, because when it comes down to it, sex workers DARE to demand money for services that men believe they have a RIGHT to take for free.

And if you still don't believe it's a feminist issue, have a think about all the things they say about sex workers. We're USED and VIOLATED and DEGRADED by men, we're VICTIMS, we need PROTECTION.... Now apply those sentiments to MALE sex workers. There are plenty of them out there and always have been and yet, I don't hear the feminazis decrying the 'brutality' that gigolos are subjected to, nor do I see Governments legislating for the protection of rent boys. Hmmm...why is that?

I told you it wasn't a good idea for me to get started on this particular rant :)

Rubber Nursey

12-04-06, 02:12

From the Malleus (heavily edited for brevity)...

For some learned men propound this reason; that there are three things in nature, the Tongue, an Ecclesiastic, and a Woman, which know no moderation in goodness or vice; and when they exceed the bounds of their condition they reach the greatest heights and the lowest depths of goodness and vice. When they are governed by a good spirit, they are most excellent in virtue; but when they are governed by an evil spirit, they indulge the worst possible vices.

Now the wickedness of women is spoken of in Ecclesiasticus xxv: ..."All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman".
S. Matthew xix: "What else is woman but a foe to friendship, an unescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, a domestic danger, a delectable detriment, an evil of nature, painted with fair colours!".
Cicero in his second book of The Rhetorics says: "The many lusts of men lead them into one sin, but the lust of women leads them into all sins; for the root of all woman's vices is avarice".
And Seneca says in his Tragedies:..."When a woman thinks alone, she thinks evil".

But for good women there is so much praise, that we read that they have brought beatitude to men and have saved nations, lands, and cities ...And Ecclesiasticus xxvi: "Blessed is the man who has a virtuous wife, for the number of his days shell be doubled". And throughout that chapter much high praise is spoken of the excellence of good women; as also in the last chapter of Proverbs concerning a virtuous woman.

And all this is made clear also in the New Testament concerning women and virgins and other holy women who have, by faith, led nations and kingdoms away from the worship of idols to the Christian religion. ...Wherefore in many vituperations that we read against women, the word woman is used to mean the lust of the flesh. As it is said: "I have found a woman more bitter than death, and good woman subject to carnal lust".

Alex Rock

12-04-06, 02:30

RN - I enjoy your writing and passion on the topic!!!

I've got a great book "The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy" which gives stacks of examples of prostitution as being a normal part of life and not looked down upon at all. It was the Church teachings which created the myths that the bible was against the sale of sex or drinking alcohol.

A trendy theory about Mary Magdelene is that she was Jesus wife, and was discredited a couple of hundred years after her death since male bigots couldn't stand the idea of a female gospel.

In China, there's a place called Lugu Lake, where the Mosuo minority still keeps it's traditional matriarchal society. Women can have as many partners as they choose, and can live with their families. Apparently many usually have one special partner but it is not a source of jealousy if she sleeps with others. All the males act like fathers of all the kids who live with the females.

Some modern anthropologists seem to debunk the myth of matriarchal society, while others say if we reference the behavior of Bonobos which is a primate matriarchal society and where females and males are the same size and sex is free and frequent, it's probably more relevant to human behavior than the chimpanzee reference, which Victorian biologists used as the reference for human behavior - i.e. a dominant alpha male with a harem of females.

Accounts of Catherine the Great and the Chinese female general MU Guiying of the Song dynasty tell of their huge sexual appetites.

Men are bigger than women though, and stronger, and when push comes to shove, it's easier to "bully" smaller people into submission.

I wonder if we had societies more dominated by women, how their attitudes to prostitution would be different. I'm curious how different Holland and Sweden would be.

Rubber Nursey

12-04-06, 03:10

I've got a great book "The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy" which gives stacks of examples of prostitution as being a normal part of life and not looked down upon at all.

It can also be found online at http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld for those who are interested.

China Lily

12-04-06, 04:24

How did you start ? how well can you remember your first time? and how often do you (did you) think about quitting? How did you feel at first, then later? Is it a matter of getting enough cash or finding your prince? Could you start another business or go back to other work? Apart from the money, would it be a job you'd like if it didn't pay so well?.Alex,

It is very difficult to decide to be a working girl. It is scary. When I decided to start, I had no money and shared a small room with a girlfriend. I sometimes sold watches and sometimes work as a model or sales hostess, but it's not easy to get enough money.

We decided to look what it was like to be a escort. We thought it would be easy. We went to Passion night club every day for a week to watch other girls and how they talked to customers and what they did, then started trying to talk to customers, but other girls knew more tricks than we did and took all the best customers.

I cannot remember my first customer. I can't remember what he looked like. Actually I can't remember most customers unless I see them. First time was very scary. I want to finish quick, it was very different from with a boyfriend. I remember nothing, but after I have money to buy nice clothes, perfume and soon we move to a bigger apartment. I was always afraid and wanted customers to finish quickly. Now I am 2 people, the girl who was me before and when I am with my family or friends and a different girl when I work. The girl who works and doesn't have feelings, she is tough on the inside and cannot be hurt. She is not scared anymore and can be tough with customers who act bad or refuse to pay. When I work, I am like an actress in a mask, I watch people and all the little signs customers make and try to choose the customers that will pay the most or be a regular customer.

Every day I want to quit, to find a husband or get enough money so I can stop working, but if I stay at home I feel I want more money to be safe in case I can't do this work one day. When I am not working, I never think about work or any customers. My mind switches off that side and I am a different me. At 7 o clock, I become the escort me. I get ready, put my make up on, choose my style and at 8 30 I go out. After work all I want is to wash off the make up and wish I had a husband to hold me.

When I teach friends to be escorts and help them get their first customers. Some girls hate the first time and stop. Some girls learn fast or even like this job. I never liked the job, but it is my job. It is what I do. I like being able to buy expensive things without thinking about it. The job is always hard work, acting to make customers want to pay you more, even with nice regular customers. I always want to quit and find a man to love and to marry and have a baby. This job is not safe. Money makes me feel safe. I can't quit my job first then look for a husband because I always want more money. My girlfriends tell me quit first then find a husband, but every day I think about money and go on working. One day I won't be able to do this any more.

How do you start a business that pays so much money as I get now? What to do? you hire people, take risks and you don't know if you can make money. Some girlfriends open restaurant, bar or foot massage or spa but I make much more than they do. Some girls marry a foreigner and help them with their business but they don't get rich. Only one escort girl managed to be successful in business. She was famous till terrible thing happened to her.

If this job didn't pay good money I wouldn't do it.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Bango Cheito

12-04-06, 05:34

My gf especially suffers because she works on the webcam for hours on end almost every day, and she doesn't have a real dick to work with (generally speaking :P) so she is constantly using toys. Even the softest toys are real hard on the body with prolonged use like that. Many girls try to use favorable camera angles to fake it for that reason.

Sorry to get tangential after all that real interesting philosophical talk. :P

SE Asia Joe

12-04-06, 07:53

SE Asia Joe,

I think you only met one kind of wg in China. Many are like you say, they try to get money to go home and live a better life, but many city girls, models, dancers and students choose to do this job because it gets them a lot of money.
Actually, I've met a lot of different kinds of WG - and at/from all over the world.... mostly because I always want to try something new and love variety.

It is not an easy choice especially for the lower class type who risk being robbed, beaten or the customer don't pay or they get arrested.
Actually I would say that for the lower class, it IS an easier choice as by the very nature of their station in life AND circumstances, there is VERY LITTLE CHOICE. This is what I wrote earlier about the Girls in China

It is not easy even for the most beautiful sexy girls because there is competition from new girls. Why a customer chooses another girl over me? When girls compete for the good customers. We have to look pretty, we have to smile and laugh when jokes are not funny, we have to go to bars and restaurants that we don't like, we get looked at and by all kinds of people, some customers make you wait to pay - that why I always want money first if I can.

Again this is what I say about Girls in TWC and especially China. There are just so many physically Beautiful girls.... who come from poor families, have no/not much education, don't have the Guanxi (connections) to get a decent job etc - How much choice do these girls have? Yuan 700/month at a factory working 28 days, 12 hour days or become a WG. And even for University graduates - the job situation in China is so severe that University graduatres cannot find and decent jobs (China routinely churns out U Grads who are soooo out of touch with what business/real life requires!) - what choice for a good looking gal? No I'm not at all talking about the complications of being as WG as you're talking about - to me that's a given.

People respect you if you have money and you look good and you hold your head high. If you act high class people respect you, If you act low class people dont respect you. Its the same for guys in bars and the same for working girls. Many girls dont tell their families what they do. Sometimes their families guess or find out, then some families accept it, others do everything they can to stop it.
That - very infortunately is the truth in money hungry China - and I would suspect, in most TWC. Thus practically the only 'way out' for tooo many girls in China and TWC is to turn to hooking. Sad, very sad.

SE Asia Joe

SE Asia Joe

12-04-06, 08:18

She worked in Passion a few days a month as did a certain few who made most money on call outs and providing new high class girls for some regular client pools. It was a hell of an eye opener for me to find out the world my GF had hidden from me, and that several of her BMW driving friends were also in the same business.
Aaaah, yes, I can see how she managed to make that kind of money. And ex-GF of mine also made quite a bit of money by branching out to 'arranging for girls' (I think they call it pimping in the west - but all very accepted as quite respectable behaviour in China actually!!). And she was doing it for some of the top people from Hong Kong when they're in China - and she got pretty well known amongst this circle as being a 'good, reliable' provider. But you know what? It only took one wanker who was NOT satisfied with her services - and the next thing that happened is that her phone stopped ringing!! Incredible but true - but when she was at it - she did make some serious money - so much so that she decided to 'retire' from the business and became my 'companion ' for a couple or so months before she decided to call it all quits and went back home to set up a small business. for all I know - and suspect strongly - she's now probably married etc with the husbands not knowing what she used to do

Having got to know some of those girls quite well as friends was what made me see they choose the lifestyle even though they could easily get ordinary jobs. Some would end up as high class mistresses, some stayed independent, one or two married and never lt their hsubands know what they had done to get so rich - they'd usually say they'd had A (single) wealthy boyfriend.
I would say that it would not be all that easy for them to get AND TRULY ENJOY ordinary jobs. LIfe is so tough in China for a single girl that there is just no way these girls would ever get ordinary jobs - not after the money (AND respect that money brings in China) that they were used to. That is so unfortunate but true. And the girls themselves realizes this - and thus many if not most already PREdetermine that they must only get into the business for a certain period - set $$ target for themselves and make sure that they do go back to their villages when these targets are met and then settle back into regular life there. They know that unless they do so, they will end up 'forever' a hooker. I admire their grit and determination on this score as I've seen with my own eyes many instances of this happening and have personally 'looked' after quite a few of these girls even up to today. My own small contribution to some of these girls for having 'taken' pleasure with them in the past.

It also amazed me the kind of money some guys, mainly Chinese - would spend on entertaining.
What amazed me went back to 1985 when I first visitied China and already saw how rich some people were in china even THEN. And the kind of lives they led - never mind Gatsby - more like kings.
SE Asia Joe

SE Asia Joe

12-04-06, 08:39

I'd like to ask what you reading this forum think about the "prevalence" of PRC WG's all over the world - from The U.S., the UK, Europe, Australia and amazingly, even in Thailand and the Philippines (and other Asian countries) where 'local' talent is pretty renowned and well entrenched.
To me, being ethnically Chinese, I feel a certain amount of 'loss of face,' mixed with a bit of anger, lots of pity that Chinese girls are being forced to become WG's .... and God knows what! Perhaps a bad reflection of my own insecurities, standards, prejudices (wherever and however they came about - who knows!) mixed with high fallutin' idealism - hmmmm.... perhaps just like the typicial Westerner I guess!
I guess the same could be said about WG's from Russia, other Eastern European contries, Thailand, Philippines etc.
Oh, what am I talking about! I'd particularly like to hear from Rubbernursey (who's helped me figure out how to quote and quote - thanks a lot RN!!) Sasha, Lily and other WGH's on this forum. Thanks
SE Asia Joe

Opebo

12-04-06, 18:00

To me, being ethnically Chinese, I feel a certain amount of 'loss of face,' mixed with a bit of anger, lots of pity that Chinese girls are being forced to become WG's ....

Don't be a prude, Joe. Pity those girls (far more numerous) of your ethnicity forced to work in factories. Prostitution by comparison is an easy, well paid, and even - if freelance - potentially fun job.

I wish more of my own ethnicity - American Wasps - were prostitutes.

Alex Rock

12-04-06, 18:21

We're all people - related to each other very closely. Race or country of origin shouldn't be an issue. Aren't there are great people and assholes from every nationality?.

The professions people shoose shouldn't be an issue either. Do we think those girls migrating to places they can make money are forced to do it?. I think most are doing it from choice:- a choice of a life style. Their economies are developing and they couldn't find jobs that pay so well. How many millions of Chinese are peasants working in the fields? and 90 million are still below the official poverty line. How many more are middle class? I doubt the numbers working in the sex business are that many proportionately.

The race of the people who pay these girls - i.e. us mongers - shouldn't be an issue either - that's what we are aren't we?.

The exception being those who are trafficked and really forced into the work against their will. These are the ones we should feel bad about - and the assholes of all nationalities who exploit them.

This website is proof that there are great working girls all over the world.

SEAsia Joe - Maybe, you'd be proud to see many guys seem to like Asian and Chinese girls, but my main point is that why do we see race and origin as an issue? It shouldn't be.

Rubber Nursey

12-05-06, 00:37

Sasha Coffee

12-05-06, 04:00

I am like Rubber a white working girl

If I decided to go and work in Ethopia in the sex industry and was working with prodominately black african women would you consider me being taken advantage of.

Somehow I doubt it

SE Asia Joe

12-05-06, 05:44

I'm a white Australian woman. Like so many of my friends have done over the years, I've always wanted to go on a working (sex working, that is) holiday in England. As well as obviously wanting to see England itself, the English pound is worth almost three times my Aussie dollar - for every hundred pounds I earned over there, I'd bring about $250 back to Australia. I would guess that's probably exactly the same reason why many Chinese women choose to work in other countries - but would anyone suggest that I, as a white hooker travelling to another 'white' country, was being 'forced' into the sex industry or exploited by people of other nationalities?
Oooops - am afraid it does not work the way you imagine Foreign Currency Exchange works. Conversion rates fluctuates depending upon the relative productivity of each economy. And what you imagine as being a probable lucrative sojourn in the UK will not materialize as you will soon find out that competitive presssures in the UK - the same as in good old Oz - will 'value' your services relative to prevaling conditions in the UK market i.e. If you're charging A$100 for your service in Oz, you can probably charge GBP33.00 Plus a bit of premium for being an australian of being bit unique etc (using your conversion rate of GBP1=A$3). Your analysis works a lot better if you are from a TWC - in that relative wages are much lower as a direct result of the availability of labour in that particular economy. But between Oz and blighty - not much diference I'm afraid.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Joe. Do you feel the same anger over Chinese girls being 'forced' to work as maids or bar staff or telemarketers or checkout chicks around the world? Or do you see those girls as doing well for themselves; being empowered and independent; broadening their horizons and getting out of their villages and experiencing all the excitement the Western world has to offer? Fact is, Chinese working girls are doing exactly the same thing, but making a whole lot more money than those others! I don't really think it's their ethnicity you have the issue with. ;)

I agree wholeheartedly with Alex - you should be proud that Chinese women are considered so beautiful by men all over the world. You should also be proud of the women themselves; many of whom have overcome huge obstacles in order to get out of the situations they were in at home and earn the big bucks while experiencing the world. And as much as it irks me to agree with Opebo, it's certainly preferable to some of the other options available to them.
I think you and Alex have made quite a fair assessment of the situation. I rather suspect that my 'prejudices' stem from the still lingering influence of how the West had colonized large parts of SE Asia up to the 20th century - and in the case of Hong Kong - up to 1997! Colonization - now we only start to realize in the 21st century - is a travesty against humanity without any justification except for the avarice of the colonizer. I just wish that good ole Dubya would first consider this when justifying his actions in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. and Darfur - what a travesty. Or Bosnia/herzegovina - when is mankind going to really wake up to its responsiblities.... as a man?! Oh Jeez - how did I get into this tangent??? Oooops - sorry one and all
SE Asia Joe

Bango Cheito

12-05-06, 06:32

All you have to do is look at the London section of this board to know that WGs make a LOT more in London than they do in Sydney or anywhere else in Aus. And if Rubber Nursey is at all easy on the eyes, she probably wouldn't have much competition.

Even in NYC where WGs make comparatively way less money, white girls are in huge demand, and command a much higher premium, as well as do a much brisker business. Their biggest problem is often jealous co-workers.

As for worldwide, that would be impossible to determine I think, because there really is no accounting for taste, and things go in and out of fashion, including hair, skin, body types etc. Ultimately I think though that the sexiest organ is the brain and the WGs who have the most long-term success are the real smart and observant ones.

Alex Rock

12-05-06, 09:05

Conversion rates fluctuates depending upon the relative productivity of each economy. And what you imagine as being a probable lucrative sojourn in the UK will not materialize as you will soon find out that competitive presssures in the UK - the same as in good old Oz - will 'value' your services relative to prevaling conditions in the UK market i.e. If you're charging A$100 for your service in Oz, you can probably charge GBP33.00 Plus a bit of premium for being an australian of being bit unique etc (using your conversion rate of GBP1=A$3). Your analysis works a lot better if you are from a TWC - in that relative wages are much lower as a direct result of the availability of labour in that particular economy. But between Oz and blighty - not much diference I'm afraid.SE Asia Joe, sorry, but I feel compelled to respond. You're right about the macro level of productivity and exchange rates but it's not relevant to micro economics and labor arbitrage. A worker in a TWC makes a local wage in a sector that usually has much lower prices. For the same work in a wealthier place (city or country) they can get paid more cash for the same hours worked and the products or services they produce sell at higher prices. So either labor migrates to where it can sell itself for higher prices or the market "outsources" to where labor is cheaper. TWC girls will earn more in richer cities or countries, and mongers from the US, UK and Germany will go to Thailand, Philippines and China to monger more cheaply.

That's why we see Chinese girls around Asia, Mongol girls in China and Russian girls in Europe. They can take home more than if they provided their services in their home economies.

Best, Alex

Alex Rock

12-05-06, 09:39

colonization - now we only start to realize in the 21st century - is a travesty against humanity without any justification except for the avarice of the colonizer.hi again se asia joe. partially agree and partially disagree. you can't argue that societies in asia were idyllic before colonists came. women had a much lower status and were often treated as the property of men to be sold or traded for dowries into lives of servitude.

according to marx, the british colonizers of india served a "progressive" role in overthrowing the feudal system and replacing it with one which laid the foundation for democratic institutions, property rights, rule of law and higher productivity under capitalism. the systems in place before the colonizers showed up were backward agrarian, feudal, or even slave states with 95% of people living in poverty, serfdom and subjugation to feudal rulers or warlords. sure, the colonizers were out to make their fortunes, expand markets, grab limited resources and expropriate land and live well while doing it, but most from the countries of the colonizers didn't share that wealth. before colonization by capitalist powers, most countries were far from the idyllic pictures painted by former ruling classes. they had extreme wealth gaps, poverty, famine, social injustice, displaced populations and disease and think about what was the status of women before colonization? colonization smashed that status quo and feudal social relationships, banned slavery and serfdom and enabled social change. sure there was inequity, but it triggered major social and economic change. the uk as the first capitalist country suffered intensely as it evolved from 90% rural in 1810 to 90% urban population in 1890 with high unemployment and extreme poverty.

chinese landowners could take wives and concubines and many women would be sold into lifetimes of servitude. a considerable proportion of men working in the countryside could not have wives. your han and tang ancestors women had to bind their feet. your manchu ruler's women didn't. brothels attracted attractive women who lived quite decent lifestyles by comparison. wealthy men would take attractive women from brothels as second wives. women in china and india were not educated and had very low status. there's a great book in chinese "the history of prostitution" "娼妓的历史" which shows that many prostitutes enjoyed greater freedom and higher status than wives, concubines and lifelong serving girls or wet nurses. (i bought it at hongqiao airport, shanghai)

i don't blame you for anti-colonial sentiments, indignity and national pride especially when the japanese right deny comfort women or the [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) of nanking. every nationality has it's reasons to be proud of itself. however, i'd argue we all come from histories of inequity, exploitation and bigotry. victorian britain is a perfect example. most of the "white guys" asians might see as descendants of colonists are ordinary guys from ordinary families who are lucky because they've had a decent education and taken the opportunity to go overseas. our ancestors were colonized by romans, vikings and later normans. i don't think we ordinary guys are that different when we get to know each other.

it's no surprise nowadays to see asians venturing all over the world and being successsful in all kinds of professions - and yep - including the profession we are discussing here. some would argue, without those chinese girls working in hong kong and elsewhere, the profession would be in decline as more women migrate into other professions or prices would be considerably higher. low cost countries are exporting low cost products and services all over the world.

as for the lame duck dubya - his legacy of short sightedness with extreme historical consequences should be the topic for a different forum. maybe we can discuss his support for the religious right with their bigoted views and hypocrisy.

best, alex

Bango Cheito

12-05-06, 09:43

Around here in the NYC area if you are Dominican Colombian Puerto Rican Mexican or Afro-American and a WG you are a drug on the market because you have LOTS of stiff (sic) competition. Being white or any kind of Asian is a BIG selling point here.

AFAIK you don't see Puerto Rican or Mexicans living too much outside their respective grounds and the USA. However Dominicans and Colombians are all over the Earth and wherever they are you can count on there being plenty of WGs from there, although with Colombia's increasing fortunes the trend is starting to reverse itself. It's actually kinda ironic that a Colombian girl would risk working in sex in a country where it's illegal when it's legal in their own country, but I guess the money makes up for it, plus in many places it is illegal BUT officially tolerated, plus if you are out of the country there is no need for people to know just what you're doing so you can avoid the social stigma which can still be very strong...

Russia, Ukraine, Thailand, the Phillipines and China seem to also be countries that export a lot of WGs.

SE Asia Joe

12-05-06, 11:00

SE Asia Joe, sorry, but I feel compelled to respond. You're right about the macro level of productivity and exchange rates but it's not relevant to micro economics and labor arbitrage. A worker in a TWC makes a local wage in a sector that usually has much lower prices. For the same work in a wealthier place (city or country) they can get paid more cash for the same hours worked and the products or services they produce sell at higher prices. So either labor migrates to where it can sell itself for higher prices or the market "outsources" to where labor is cheaper. TWC girls will earn more in richer cities or countries, and mongers from the US, UK and Germany will go to Thailand, Philippines and China to monger more cheaply.

That's why we see Chinese girls around Asia, Mongol girls in China and Russian girls in Europe. They can take home more than if they provided their services in their home economies.

Best, Alex
Yes - I agree totally. All I wanted to point out to RN is that I do not believe that she can make that much more in the UK - seeing as the standard of living there is "quite comparable" to Australia. And yes, that's the reason a lot of TWC girls go to western countries to ply their trade - apart from the "uniqueness premium" that can be commanded for foreign WG's in any country.
But then again I do know a few girls in China who "does very well thank you very much" as there is a subsector of Wealthy Chinese who keeps these girls in milk and honey! I guess the same as people like Anna Nicole Smith who got "her man" didn't she??!! So, I guess the truth is that there are different kinds of girls and different levels of earnings wherever they are in the world.
SE Asia Joe

SE Asia Joe

12-05-06, 11:24

Hi again SE Asia Joe. Partially agree and partially disagree. You can't argue that societies in Asia were idyllic before colonists came. Women had a much lower status and were often treated as the property of men to be sold or traded for dowries into lives of servitude....
I think you misunderstand. I was only trying to analyze my own suspected bigotry - as being a product of my chinese ancestry vs. the colonizers. I don't doubt for a minute that as a whole, the colonizers - especially the Brits - were good for the development of each country. But even the Brits - there are just too many instances when they were ruthless in their pursuit of wealth - combined with their locals be damned attitude. (they actually got Hong Kong as a colony when they beat China during the opium War - a war they instigated to protect their right to sell the opium they grow in British East India (another colony) to the hapless Chinese). I can go on and on as to the transgressions of colonizers - Foreign concesssions in Shanghai, Mongol warriors occupying half of the old world, - and how about the atrocities committed by the Khmer Rouge, or the Japanese during WW2 - the list goes on.... I think you get my drift.
It is this type of ruthless behaviour - all against 'the dumb natives - we know better'. Whether England, or Holland or the US know any better or not - what right do they have to come conquering to a land that is not their birth right? Worse of course is the little guy who all of a sudden become a big deal just because he came in with the conquering horde. It is these little farts that I really get all pissed off about as I experienced personally their shittiness. Please don't get me wrong again - I've lived in the U.S., Canada, UK etc - and 100% of the time, I find the people all warm and nice. But you get some little shit who's got nothing to be proud of in their own home country - in 'his colony" and you've got a real shit head.
Ok enough perhaps
Se Asia Joe