American Women [Archive] - Page 22 - InternationalSexGuide

Doctor_Skank

04-05-07, 07:47

I think if American went the same places where Italians go
situation would be worst

I would say that mostly men from Westernized countries stop thinking clearly.
Western society makes weak men.

Agreed that American tourist hordes would be at least as bad as the Italians... my point being exactly as RockDog said, there is no nation of inherent "players". Even the coolest and suavest get silly when they think they "have to get laid tonight." I'm quite skilled at getting a good price or will even go without getting any if I don't like the terms. Some may even call me cheap. But I like to be the one doing the screwing and not be the one being screwed if you know what I mean.

Western society has indeed bred weak men when it comes to relations with women, but when was the last time you were in Moscow and observed the sexual politics there? It's still vastly superior to the West in terms of women, but things are slowly changing for Russian men as well...

Men can behave like strong bruts and get what they want as long as the balance of power and sexual/economic demographics are in their favor. As soon as they start competing for the same women however, they start cutting into their own flesh as well. That's one of the things that has happened in America... combined with fucked up pseudo-morality left over from Victorian England.

But back to Russia and in particular Moscow... currently nobody overpays MORE than new Russians in Moscow for example, where among the circles of elite prostitutes and "sponsporship brides", Western people, whether American, Italian or German, are considered cheap. It's not just a matter of the local men paying more because they can. I've seen Russian men make utter fools of themselves on many occasions, toting around their girlfriend's shopping bags from one shop to the next like some browbeaten retarded slave. In most cases, the girls weren't even that hot. Girls are realizing that they don't have to put up with abuse or beatings from their oafish men... they quickly find another guy who also has the cash to keep her happy. The guys can of course still relatively easily find another girl... but this market is changing. Worst off, the attitudes of the local boys are changing. I know a lot of Russian guys in Moscow, guys with good jobs and money... and many of them let their women control them almost as bad as Western guys do. Things are certainly different in the provinces and other towns where the women have to take whatever they can get, but as soon as the balance shifts...

Fundamentally I agree with some of the Russian attitudes of sexual relations and when dealing with Slavic women, it is the most effective way... and fun too... but also see the wind changing in that country as women achieve more financial and sexual independence. It's particularly noticeable in Moscow. But like all good and bad things, eventually everything that begins in Moscow trickles down to the provinces... just as trends in America begin in California and New York. For us men these trends are regrettable and seemingly global. We can keep going farther and farther "into the country" to find things they way they should be, but globalization is catching up to us in that sense as well.

I say get laid as often as you can, I don't think things are going to get easier for us. We are just going to have to get better and better at playing the game. And maintain self-pride. No pussy is worth emasculating yourself for... American, Thai, Russian or otherwise.

George90

04-05-07, 19:32

I say get laid as often as you can, I don't think things are going to get easier for us. We are just going to have to get better and better at playing the game. And maintain self-pride. No pussy is worth emasculating yourself for... American, Thai, Russian or otherwise.

I generally agree with your post. Your last paragraph is not very encouraging. At least in the US, marriage, work, and sex laws ARE emasculating us. I see gays as the only men who can escape the new oppression. They are gaining more rights just as male hetero rights being are restricted. However, that road is not an option for me.

In addition, getting more 'game' is expensive in that most of us work hard at our jobs and don't have the time to improve our 'game'. It may mean losing promotions or even jobs.

Indeed, unless we are willing to relocate to less advanced countries, we are facing a bleak future.

Mmbmmb

04-05-07, 23:40

Gentlemen,

I found this forum by accident. Unfortunately I had no time to read closely every post in the thread about AW. Forgive me if I don’t remember all nicknames and so on.

Anyway I’m neither a prostitute nor a mongerer. I just, with curiosity, read your thoughts about American girls or maybe rather about American society.

Now I live in an EE country (where I was born). In the past I lived in Ukraine and in USA (about a few months in every country, so not so long) and I have another remarks about Eastern Europe and US.

So

1) Most of you agreed that AW are bitchy, greedy, overweight, picky, ugly, unfaithful. Etc. Creatures. I hope, gentlemen, that it’s only temporary resentment/ embitterment after meeting some gold diggers. Such people exist of course (not only in US) but I don’t believe that all AW are so horrible and even that the number of "good"AW is +- 5% of all females. To tell the truth they aren’t better or worse then American men. I’ve met different Americans who I would describe as jerks and they were both men and women. So don’t write that only AW are greedy, obese and superficial. AM can’t behave this way? This is exactly the same as I would say that all Americans are fat and stupid because such stereotype exists in EE. I think it’s a problem of all society not only AW.

But you write about 2 processes: globalization and economic development. For you the last one is a reason of AW’s horrible behaviour. Why? Because they earn good money and they don’t need a man? It doesn’t convince me.

It doesn’t matter if you’re rich or poor. Loneliness doesn’t care about it. And everyone wants to have a beloved person, am I right? If someone’s criterion when seeking a partner is his/her wealth I can only say that this person looks for nonexistent ideal. Nobody can guarantee that he/she will be rich through all life. Life is ironical and tomorrow you can lose your well-paid job because the company will restructure. And what will your sweetheart do when it turns out that you aren’t irreplaceable? Greed also has nothing to do to nationality or wealth. You can be greedy being a model in NYC as well as being a waitress in China.

If I have to point processes which have influence on people’s (not only women) behaviour I would say it’s: development of technique what’s connected to globalization, feminism and of course spreading of American culture or rather American popular culture. The mix of the processes caused that we want everything and we want it now. Magazines as "Cosmopolitan", TV, commercials changed people’s brains into water. People think that e. G. "Sex in the City" is real and stars aren’t improved in e. G. Photoshop and they really look like on the photos.

Another problem is that people can’t communicate with each other anymore. They simply forgot how to talk. Someone wrote here as a request to AW: " Don't use sex as a weapon to get what you want". It’s very sad statement.

For me, in normal relationship, woman says" "Honey, I didn’t like you beahviour today. I felt horrible. Why did you say/do this? " or "I think we need to buy a new car because 1). 2). (here put the good reasons). " But instead she’s often angry and she says "You acted like a jerk. I don’t want to look at you. Go to sleep on the couch" or "Why don’t you want a new car? You spend money on these useless. (put what you want). And you never think about my needs. Go to sleep on the couch". I don’t know if I gave good examples but the result is the same. They don’t have sex, they are frustrated, angry at each other and for a few days they change their life in hell.

Sometimes, gentlemen, you compared people to animals using words as "alpha male, " giving theory about females who look for the best genes etc. Personally I prefer a comparison made by a psychologist in my country. She said that people and love they give to each other are like plants. You have to take care about them all the time otherwise they will die.

The rules in the world of plants are simple:

- they need water like people need tenderness, understanding, care, compliments etc in a relationship

- they need helping hand like people need support

- they need space. I remind myself a post where someone complained that he couldn’t visit his parents without his wife and that she read all his letters so privacy was a thing of the past. It’s sad that some people can be like ivy trying to take somebody’s space.

- And the last one but maybe the most important: you can’t change a plant into another one e. G. A rose into tulip. This is so obvious when we think about watering cactus too often because it doesn’t need a lot water, it’s not an orchid. But it becomes more complicated when we expect that a person who likes spending evenings at home suddenly will change into a barfly. And after we can read that " She expected that I will change when we have a baby, even if I didn’t want it. "

So I think that it’s the easiest way to say "There’s something wrong with AW". No, there’s something wrong with our societies. Don’t think that EE is a paradise where women aren’t fat, people don’t divorce and girls don’t care if you’re rich or not. Problems are everywhere. 2) I wanted to write about EE (and other things) but maybe another time. Sorry it’s quite late in EE.

And sorry for any mistake in my English.

Jelly Donut

04-07-07, 17:31

I found this forum by accident...

Did you ever date American women?

George90

04-07-07, 18:26

i read in the newspaper today, the washington post, an article about the recent release of british soldiers by iran. it was written by a woman, kathleen parker. i was flabbergasted by the huge amount logic, reason, and sanity she displayed.

here are some paragraphs.

it is not fashionable these days to suggest that women don't belong in or near combat -- or that children need their mothers. yes, they need their fathers, too, but children in their tender years are dependent on their mothers in unique ways.

why the west has seen it necessary to diminish motherhood so that women can pretend to be men remains a mystery to sane adults. it should be unnecessary to say that the military is not a proper vehicle for social experimentation but is a machine dedicated to fighting and, if necessary, killing.

what kind of man, one shudders to wonder, is willing to allow his country's women to be raped and tortured by men of enemy nations? none that i know, but our military is gradually weaning men of their intuitive inclination to protect women -- which, by extrapolation, means ignoring the screams of women being assaulted.

at the point when our men can stand by unfazed while american servicewomen are raped and tortured, then we will have no cause to fight any war. we will have already lost.

the link to the complete article is http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/06/ar2007040601549.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Opebo

04-07-07, 18:47

another right-wing journalist, george90? i didn't notice any logic in the peice, just appeals to emotion and tradition (that most irrational of human institutions). the funniest, or perhaps oddest, part was where she suggests that a woman being raped by a man is 'worse' than a man being raped by a man!

women and men are raped and tortured domestically in all our nations as a matter of course, george, and no one seems sufficiently troubled by it to do anything. only a xenophobic nationalist would think it were more objectionable if done by foreigners.

Lenin

04-07-07, 22:40

..there is no nation of inherent "players". .
I can not agree with that.
For example from my experience,
English-Canadians men are so scary to approach or talk to women.
They are so insecure. It is such a pain to have them like wingmen.
The Cuban men from Cuba from opposite ends of spectrum,
they act so natural around the women. It is funny. Last year I read in
the local Russian forum the posts of the Russian woman who was not
careful enough and brought her Cuban husband from Cuba to Russia.
He fucked many of her university and school friends and still managed to
save relationship with her.
I have not been in Moscow for long time but I check the local Russian
Forums and often talk with Russians who came from Moscow.
It is true that a lot of men from Moscow prefer to go to the
province or to others countries.
But as they saying Moscow is not Russia.
It always was special place, the state inside the state
with its own rules and women with worst attitude.
“New Russians” got easy money and spending them to brag and
show off. But “New Russians” are only small part of Russian society.
Woosy men exist in any culture but in Russia their percentage is much smaller
than in the West and they won't become mainstream as in US. Russian patriarchal culture is very strong and most of
Russian men are not going to change their attitude toward women.
Financial independence is not biggest problem.
Women in Russia in last century made approximately same money as the men and this not spoiled them.
Also the number of beautiful women in Russia is much more than the number of rich men.
So I don’t see how balance in whole Russia could be changed.

Lenin

04-07-07, 23:00

George90

04-07-07, 23:20

i can not agree with that. for example from my experience, english-canadians men are so scary to approach or talk to women. they are so insecure. it is such a pain to have them like wingmen. the cuban men from cuba from opposite ends of spectrum, they act so natural around the women. it is funny. last year i read in the local russian forum the posts of the russian woman who was not careful enough and brought her cuban husband from cuba to russia. he fucked many of her university and school friends and still managed to save relationship with her.

i don't any russian men but i do know several canadian men. you are correct that canadian men are much less aggressive with women than cuban men or, say, russian men. what you are perceive as fear of approaching women is viewed in canada as respect for women. to just go up to a strange women and intrude on her privacy by starting to talk with her about anything you want is considered very rude, even in some social settings. the man is supposed to wait until she signals that it is ok for him, not just anyone but specifically him, to approach her and talk to her. this is usually done by a smile, a nod, a wink, or other gesture. any woman who won't make eye contact with a man and signal that she it is acceptable for him to approach her will be left alone for all decent men, at least in canada. the only canadian men who will approach her anyway are the scumbags, [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127), criminals, and other men who don't care whether or not a woman is really interested in him. they will make her interested in them.

the other aspect of what you perceived can be condsidered fear, but not of the woman herself, of the problems she can create if she lies about him. like most western countries, canada has strong laws against sexual assault, sexual discrimination, sex abuse, etc. that heavily favor the woman. women can, and some do, lie to authorities about what a man may or may not have done. for example, if a man touches a woman on her arm or shoulder and he is not handsome enough or rich enough or whatever enough, she can tell police that the man fondled and molested her. he will be arrested for sexual assault. this happens far more often than people think. men learn to be careful and only approach women whom they feel won't them sorry for it afterwards.

George90

04-07-07, 23:38

George90, what is the hope you talking about?
All women the same, they all have garbage in their heads. Until American guys stop paying any attention that women saying and start to do that they have to do, there is no hope for this country.

Maybe that is my problem, Lenin. I keep thinking that there is a woman who doesn't have garbage in her head and I keep looking for her.

I have not found any such women in the US who were very interested in me. I have found many in non-Western countries.

American men won't start doing what we have to any time soon. The laws and society are too stacked against us for that. American society will have to get really bad before women and society change their tunes. The war in Iraq is starting to get us there, though.

They don't publicize it much, (Jessica Lynch notwithstanding) but because of all the women in our military driving convoys and such, many of the soldiers getting blown up in Baghdad are women. And because of low marriage rates here, most of these women are single mothers. So American mothers are dying and getting maimed, leaving their children without capable parents. Grandparents are being called on to raise these children. When enough women are killed, have their arms and legs blown off, or have their faces burned off, then US society may decide to re-think the roles and places of women in it. But not until then. Sad.

Yogin

04-08-07, 01:12

another right-wing journalist, george90? i didn't notice any logic in the peice, just appeals to emotion and tradition ...oddest part was where she suggests that a woman being raped by a man is 'worse' than a man being raped by a man!

women and men are raped and tortured domestically in all our nations as a matter of course, george, and no one seems sufficiently troubled by it to do anything. only a xenophobic nationalist would think it were more objectionable if done by foreigners.

agreed. i saw no rational logic of any kind, just a load of jingoistic right-wing emotional nonsense.
here in the us, spousal abuse especially among elderly, is way underreported when it comes to abuse by women against men. and sexual abuse by grown women against young boys is rarely prosecuted. we have so many double standards, so much bs that favors women. if they want to act like men, let them. if that means getting blown up or raped in iraq along with the men, so be it. give them all the equality they demand. i'll find my women elsewhere. feminism & religious conservatism (funny paradox how supposed opposites aren't all that different, especially when it comes to sex!) have ruined this country. contrary to what the newbie below posited, there is a difference between aw's & women of most countries of the world. i'm not fat, greedy, shallow, or stupid, and i'm as american as they come.

Doctor_Skank

04-08-07, 02:00

I can not agree with that.
For example from my experience,
English-Canadians men are so scary to approach or talk to women.
They are so insecure. It is such a pain to have them like wingmen.
The Cuban men from Cuba from opposite ends of spectrum,
they act so natural around the women. It is funny. Last year I read in
the local Russian forum the posts of the Russian woman who was not
careful enough and brought her Cuban husband from Cuba to Russia.
He fucked many of her university and school friends and still managed to
save relationship with her.
I have not been in Moscow for long time but I check the local Russian
Forums and often talk with Russians who came from Moscow.
It is true that a lot of men from Moscow prefer to go to the
province or to others countries.
But as they saying Moscow is not Russia.
It always was special place, the state inside the state
with its own rules and women with worst attitude.
“New Russians” got easy money and spending them to brag and
show off. But “New Russians” are only small part of Russian society.
Woosy men exist in any culture but in Russia their percentage is much smaller
than in the West and they won't become mainstream as in US. Russian patriarchal culture is very strong and most of
Russian men are not going to change their attitude toward women.
Financial independence is not biggest problem.
Women in Russia in last century made approximately same money as the men and this not spoiled them.
Also the number of beautiful women in Russia is much more than the number of rich men.
So I don’t see how balance in whole Russia could be changed.

Perhaps Lenin, I do not know. I am not Cuban... But you are right... one thing is true about Russian women, it is much easier just to tell them what to do. They "respond well". .

Sinanju Master

04-08-07, 03:20

I had read the entire site and it was incredibly insightful. It could be similar to a nuclear deterrent: a broad threatens to put you in the classification of "Just a friend" and you retailate with the ICBM loaded with the truth (where you're coming from). You may not get laid, BUT she understands the ground rules.

Rock Dog

04-08-07, 15:52

It's been a few days but I notice quite a few new posts. One particular post caught my eye.

What was so eye-catching? Well, for starters it was the very first ever post written by Mmbmmb. Next, they claim to have found the forum "by accident" and that they are neither a prostitute nor a monger. Then they say they are from eastern europe and have only lived in the US for a fairly short time.

Next comes a lengthy post, written in fairly good english, coming to the defense of AWs and asking for our understanding of them. ???

Now who do you think ever comes in here and writes something like that for their very first post? My guess is it's a woman, and she's not from somewhere in EE. The writing style seems feminine. The post is about relationships and attempts to appeal to our emotions. Not only that, but it's way too well-written.... never mind apologies for "mistakes in my english".

I'm very suspicious of this Mmbmmb character.

Rock

Latin Bound

04-08-07, 16:13

Yogin

04-08-07, 16:22

...My guess is it's a woman, and she's not from somewhere in EE. The writing style seems feminine. The post is about relationships and attempts to appeal to our emotions. Not only that, but it's way too well-written.... never mind apologies for "mistakes in my english".

I'm very suspicious of this Mmbmmb character.
Rock

Me too. Notice in such a long post, not a word about any personal sexual/romantic experiences with women, of any nationality. Way too much emotion, waxing philosophical, with no facts or experience to back it up.

Mmbmmb

04-08-07, 19:58

Gentlemen,

I’m sorry I answer so late, especially after your suspicions about my person. As an explanation I can only say that we have Easter and I had to visit my family.

So

1) Of course I’m a women but I’m not American. English language isn’t so "complicated" as Slavonic ones and it lets to use adjectives, verbs etc without specifying gender. You can’t blame me for that. I can say that I’m from Poland. If you want to check it asking about something connected with my country don’t be shy. To tell the truth I have no idea how I could prove it. Anyway is it really so important? Believe me nobody pay me for writing this:.)))

2) Rock Dog wrote that my post was "written in fairly good english, coming to the defense of AWs and asking for our understanding of them? "

So thank you for this "fairly good English":.) Believe me, it’s easier for me to write something then to say. Sometimes I still want to make a tomato soap instead of soup:.) But it’s good to know that my stay in US improved my English a little. And I decided to add my post because what you write about AW, gentlemen, is scaring.

JELLY DONUT:

Did you ever date American women?

No, I didn’t because I’m not a lesbian. I’ve dated only American men and I have very nice memories:.). And even if nobody bought me expensive presents I have to say that American men are in the top of list the most cute guys I’ve ever met;.) Anyway a far as I remember my EE friends (male) didn’t have a lot of problems with picking up American girls. And believe me they weren’t millionaires. I would even say that AW spoiled my EE friends. [Here I agree with you that they are horrible;.)] At the beginning my handsome, Slovak friend said I can do with him anything what I want for 30 $;.) I said "What? ! For 30$? I won’t pay so much. ". I hoped to beat the price, after all I’m only a poor girl from EE;.) but I thought over his proposition and said to myself "Don’t be greedy. ". So I agreed to pay the price but he told me " Now it’s 100$. " "What? ! 100$, why? " It turned out that for AW 30$ isn’t exorbitant price or at least he told me that and he didn’t want to date with me. Oh, c’est la vie! Thanks God there were AM who wanted to kiss my breasts absoloutly for free and particularly one AM did it with such passion as he would work for 100$;.) I’m a lucky girl;.)

But seriously, I guess gentlemen that you’re still convinced that AW are the worst in the world. But for me people are the same all over the world. The difference between USA and other, not so developed countries is that US society is very consumable, maybe more then other societies. What doesn’t change the fact that they try to catch us society up.

How do you call it in English? Keeping up with the Joneses? Is it typical only for AW? It’s the behaviour of brides in the reality show you wrote about "Bridezilla". They wanted an expensive wedding and engament rings because their female friends got them. (By the way, if they are so horrible why their fiancés are so in love with them? Why they agree for everything what the brides want? Please, can someone explain me this? ).

In my country it’s the same. The wedding has to be expensive because otherwise "What will the people say? " People care about it more then about the their financial condition.

Lately I was even shocked that one of my female friends took credit for her wedding and she’s going to take another one for the house. It’s a lot of money and the salaries in EE unfortunately aren’t so good as in US. I didn’t ask her for how many years she will repay it. Simply stupidity isn’t typical for one nationality.

Another things you listed (in posts before, sorry if I don’t remember everything) are:

- rate of divorces is low in EE then in US

Maybe it is but I guess I have a bad luck and I see too many divorced couples around me. Maybe people from middle class just don’t hesitate to get a divorce because they have better knowledge of law, more money for lawyers, they are more liberal etc. Remember that EE countries are still relatively poor and people have no money to get a divorce. There’s also an attitude that it’s better be in unhappy marriage "for children sake", " because I can afford to live on my own" and so on. I think that the rate of divorce has little to do with the level of happiness in marriages, at least in my country.. Girls in Europe are more beautiful, feminine then in US I noticed one rule. Usually the bigger city and the bigger salary is the more attractive girls are. It’s the same in US and in EE. Did you see people in small villages in EE with high unemployment? Of course there’s a lot of beautiful girls in EE (and in US) but there’s also a lot of unkempt ones.

I’ve noticed fat people in US. I think it’s only a lack of exercices and too many "trashy" food. In US you can take money from ATM, buy food, medicines etc not getting out of the car. Portions in restaurants are huge and eating at home isn’t so popular as in the past. Saying it in the simplest way, in EE you have to move your butt and walk to these places. But slowly it changes too. There was a film "Super size me" and even if the autor simplifies some things it shows many bad changes which took place in US.

I saw different obese people, they were different, black, white, Asians and they weren’t only women.

Obesity becomes slowly a problem in all European countries, even in China children are more and more obese. The reason is one: too much "McDonald" and TV instead of vegetables and exercises.

And if it’s about feminity and beauty? Yes, I partly agree that competition among girls is big. Luckily in EE there’s still a lot of cute girls so everyone wants to look the best. What’s not so bad on the oher hand. Thanks to it we try to be more and more beautiful.

But I saw feminine women in US too. At last the beauty is a question of personal preferences and taste.

- AW are greedy bitches

Gentlemen what you write about, one can name only "prostitution". If you write that a woman is ONLY interested in your money it doesn’t matter if she’s a prostitute from agency, your friend from work or a girlfriend. Please don’t call it love or attraction (fascination) because the only one love and attraction I see here is towards money. Prostitute is sincere at least and tells you in the beginning what she expects for her time. I don’t understand why you waste your time on someone with such behaviour. I respect myself and my time. I wouldn’t waste it for someone who ask me on the first date how much I earn. The first date is time to get to know each other not to make common decision about buying house.

I remember my American friend from work. Once he told me that I’m beautiful etc. I thanked him for compliments and joked that his wife would be jelous if she heard it. He answer" Oh no, we have open-realtionship". I thought: "What? I can’t believe" Before he showed me photos of his family. 3 beautiful daughters who he won’t send to school, as a Baptist, because someone can demoralize them there. For sure the example of the open-relationship with his wife (if it’s truth) is more moral;.) But on photos they seems such perfect family. Talking to him I could think that AM are jerks but I KNOW that’s not truth. And don’t get me wrong, gallantry is a different thing. Every woman likes when you treat her like a lady, when you give her flowers and invite for diner but everything has limits. For me my man hasn’t to buy me expensive roses I’ll be happy when he gives me cheap bouquet of lilies of the valley or daisies because what’s really important it’s his memory about me and willingness to show me that he loves me. I understand how hard people have to work to earn money. When I’m not interested in man I tell him that at the beginning (of course as politely as I can) and I expect the same e. G. That nobody will treat me as a plastic doll. I’m not one. And I believe that I’m not the only one woman who thinks that way, neither in EE nor in US.

LENIN: English-Canadians men are so scary to approach or talk to women.

They are so insecure. It is such a pain to have them like wingmen.

The Cuban men from Cuba from opposite ends of spectrum, they act so natural around the women. It is funny. Last year I read in the local Russian forum the posts of the Russian woman who was not careful enough and brought her Cuban husband from Cuba to Russia. He fucked many of her university and school friends and still managed to save relationship with her.

I don’t know Canadian men but American ones hadn’t these problems. I didn’t notice that they were insecure or scary talking to me:.) And there isn’t written on my forehead "I’m not American":.)

If it’s about Cuban guy. What’s funny in it? That he was unfaithful to his wife? How someone can expect his woman to be faithful if he isn’t? Isn’t it an example of double standards some men wrote about in this thread?

LENIN: I know one Russian man, construction worker. 58 old years, but he still has "alpha man" behavior. He lives in Brooklyn, NY. He has a cute 30 years old Russian girlfriend. She has university degree. He beat her once a week and keep telling her that she is garbage in comparison with his ex wife. One day he decided that $100/month which he spend for her entertainment is too much. He gave her drink, called police and kicked out her from his apartment. A lot of young Americanized woosy men wanted her but she didn’t care and returned back to him

All I can say is that this girl has serious psychological problems. Any of my Russian or Ukraianian female friends wouldn’t behave this way. What does it mean that he was beating her? Violence isn’t normal neither in Russia nor in Poland or US. The fact that it’s happens too often is sad but for sure not normal. How would you feel if your girlfriend kept telling you that you’re a garbage and a zero at bed, specially in comparison with her ex boyfriend?

GEORGE90: Women can, and some DO, lie to authorities about what a man may or may not have done. For example, if a man touches a woman on her arm or shoulder and he is not handsome enough or rich enough or whatever enough, she can tell police that the man fondled and molested her. He will be arrested for sexual assault. This happens far more often than people think

I don’t know what to write George. It’s terrifying. I rememeber a situation when I was in public restroom. I was wahing my hands and there was a black woman next to me. Then a little girl appeared. She asked us to help her because she can’t reach the faucet. And do you know what? I was afraid to touch her and I saw that this woman was afraid too. Any of us didn’t want to be accused about harassment of her. It was a sick situation. Finally the woman helped her. After she started to joke with me and I guess she wanted to make sure that I won’t call the police telling them that she touched her lower then she should.

George, I hope the situation, I was in, will show you that it’s not only problem AW. It simply showed me how high level of paranoia us society reached.

Do you think I felt comfortable with AM all the time? Once one AM showed me a book. I wanted to see a picture in it and I stood very close to him. Then he said" Please don’t do this. You stay too close to me. Don’t get me wrong but I just need space around me". I know he didn’t want to be rude but I felt strange. And that’s how I learnt that Americans need at least 1m of space around them;.)

I have to finish gentlemen. I have no time to write about everything.

Anyway I don’t want to justify AW. Of course they have disadvantages too but when I read your posts I had impression that too many of you hate AW, or generally women.

I’d like to write as George "I keep thinking that there are men who don't have garbage in their heads".

Sorry if my style of writing is too emotional or feminine. I’ll try to work on it if it’s a problem:.)

ROCK DOG:

Now who do you think ever comes in here and writes something like that for their very first post?

I guess I do this:.) I’m not afraid to say what I think and besides sometimes simply I can’t shut up;.) I really found this forum by accident what not so hard in modern world and I started to read your posts about AW because it’s interesting to see men’s point of view. I didn’t make any post in other threads because as I said luckily I hadn’t pay AM for sex;.) and Slovak guys are too expensive for me:.(

Secondly, I really believe in what I write. I don’t know, is it too naïve for you?

There’s also another explanation: maybe I had luck and my AW friends were in this 5% of "good women":.) But if I have a date with AW, I promise I’ll write about it;.) Sorry, I have experience only with AM and it’s not interesting for you so I didn’t write about it.

YOGIN:

I'm not fat, greedy, shallow, or stupid, and I'm as American as they come.

I didn’t write that you are. But unluckily I met fat, shallow AM and next to them handsome and nice ones (lickily:.)). I was writing generally about US society and its problems not particularly about you.

PS Sorry I don't know how to quote you.

Lomusa

04-08-07, 20:42

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1175577317253290.xml&coll=1

Viva Chicas

04-09-07, 00:00

Mmbmmb is likely a woman. No man would write that way. She is tying to infiltrate into the system like an insurgent.

Mmbmmb is not in search of Panoche, she has one!

Her writing was many paragraphs of emotional theory. If Mmbmmb were a man, especially from Eastern Europe, he would never be writing that crap.

That's just my opinion, and it should be your's.

CBGBConnisur

04-09-07, 01:49

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1175912721308490.xml&coll=7&thispage=1

Here is an Oregon story detailing how an overpaid doctor put a hooker through university, bought her a car, paid her rent and got fucked over by her. Guys, please remember hookers exist only to be fucked and to catch our sperm. If you do anything else, you will get fucked.

No matter whether we are talking about the sluts of Thailand or the States, the message stays the same. Cum on them, pay them and leave. Do not get involved.
Excellent advice, it says volumes about a woman's character when one lives in a rich Western country and has sex with men to make money, in general this rule is for women in all societies, rich and poor. Thai women can never be trusted.

Jelly Donut

04-09-07, 02:27

Thanks.

Well, I appreciate your appreciation of American men and I'm happy you think the guys you met were "nice".

I'm a bit confused by the whole section that you write after that point. Are you joking around? Are you flipping sex roles in order to make a point?

I guess so.

Anyway, it's true. There are a vast number of fantastic American women here in the United States. It sounds like they would be happier in Poland. Maybe we can work out a swap of some kind?

JELLY DONUT:

Did you ever date American women?

No, I didn’t because I’m not a lesbian. I’ve dated only American men and I have very nice memories:.). And even if nobody bought me expensive presents I have to say that American men are in the top of list the most cute guys I’ve ever met;.) Anyway a far as I remember my EE friends (male) didn’t have a lot of problems with picking up American girls. And believe me they weren’t millionaires. I would even say that AW spoiled my EE friends. [Here I agree with you that they are horrible;.)] At the beginning my handsome, Slovak friend said I can do with him anything what I want for 30 $;.) I said "What? ! For 30$? I won’t pay so much. ". I hoped to beat the price, after all I’m only a poor girl from EE;.) but I thought over his proposition and said to myself "Don’t be greedy. ". So I agreed to pay the price but he told me " Now it’s 100$. " "What? ! 100$, why? " It turned out that for AW 30$ isn’t exorbitant price or at least he told me that and he didn’t want to date with me. Oh, c’est la vie! Thanks God there were AM who wanted to kiss my breasts absoloutly for free and particularly one AM did it with such passion as he would work for 100$;.) I’m a lucky girl;.)

But seriously, I guess gentlemen that you’re still convinced that AW are the worst in the world. But for me people are the same all over the world. The difference between USA and other, not so developed countries is that US society is very consumable, maybe more then other societies. What doesn’t change the fact that they try to catch us society up.
.

Yogin

04-09-07, 04:28

dear mmbmmb,

thanks for the followup. thanks for telling us who you are. nothing wrong with being a woman, writing like one, and posting on this site. so please don't apologize for sounding like one or trying to change. unlike most aw, you own your femininity, a refreshing change of pace for us here in sex prison usa. your response was that of a thoughtful mature adult, without any recriminations against us. but you know what? 95% of aw, after reading this thread, would be furious, full of ridiculous denials, and would call us women-hating/beating, perverted losers. truth is, the ideas & opinions presented here are either typical of am who can't espouse them publicly for fear of reprisal, or they are so desperate for lack of decent aws that they will accept any loud cow who moos their way, or they truly are ignorant of the big wonderful world out there that offers far better choices of women.

yes "keeping up with the joneses" is not a uniquely american thing, but our consumerist society has perfected it to a new low. we treat people as disposable consumer commodities. the first thing a woman asks me upon meeting is "what do you do" meaning "how much $ you make". often the 2nd-3rd question is "what kind of car you drive".

this site is for men to exchange information on how to get sex, whether or not for money. i like to think that most guys here want to treat a woman like a lady (whether she is a prostitute or a prime minister) and don't hate women. we are just fed up with all the paranoia & suspicion, as if we're potential [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) & molestors. i open doors for women, offer them my seat on the train, even when i get a dirty look for doing so. were i to apply for job teaching children, they asked me why i want the job, and i said "because i love kids", they would call the police on me. and we're sick of feminists complaining about how "oppressed" women are here, when in fact they run the country in every sense of the word.

Angus Magee

04-09-07, 12:08

I am sure that this small clip will be appreciated here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApG7CYuq8Pc

Had me in stitches. The daughter is portrayed perfectly.

Mmbmmb

04-09-07, 15:49

Dear gentlemen,

1) Viva Chicas: Mmbmmb is likely a woman. No man would write that way. She is tying to infiltrate into the system like an insurgent.

Yes, I am a woman. I already wrote it and I’m not an insurgent. I repeat on more time, nobody pay me for my writing. I would like someone to do this but nobody wants to waste his/her money.

Besides it’s an internet forum. Everyone can write what he/she thinks. You wrote that my post was a crap. Why? I don’t understand what crappy was in it. Please, when you write something like it, write also what caused your opinion.

And by the way, what’s Panoche? Sorry my English isn’t so good. Isn’t it a Spanish word?

2) Jelly Donut: I'm a bit confused by the whole section that you write after that point. Are you joking around? Are you flipping sex roles in order to make some kind of point?

Yes, I was joking a little. But this situation was true, even if he was only joking with me (at least I hope he was). My Slovak friend really thought he’s very handsome: .) and wanted 100$. I think that if I would smile nicely to him he agreed for the 30$; ) Anyway my chances were small from the beginning because he had too many pretty Slovak and AW around him. But as I wrote: c’est la vie; .)

I wrote about him because I wanted to say that my EE male friends hadn’t problems with picking up AW and these American girls didn’t look like Quasimodo (from the Hunchback of Notre Dame by V. Hugo).

Besides I noticed that most posts in the thread were so serious, without any humor but full of bitterness and I don’t like to take life seriously.

Wasn’t it Shakespeare who wrote:

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage

And then is heard no more: it is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

But enough of philosophy. I noticed that it’s not popular lately. You have to forgive me my humanistic education: .)

And would I pay the Slovak guy 30$? I don’t know, unluckily I had no chance to find out it.

"Maybe we can work out a swap of some kind? "

Interesting idea but I like my country even if it’s far away from being perfect. Why life is always so problematical?

3) Yogin: Your response was that of a thoughtful mature adult, without any recriminations against us.

Why should I have any recriminations? Because you don’t like AW or, maybe, you pay prostitues for sex? Yogin, what can I tell you? I understand who created this forum but I don’t really care about it. I mean I don’t know you and to tell the truth I don’t want to know where you live, work and if you have family or not. It’s not a purpose of our "conversation". I think noone has right to judge other people. I saw too many good catholics (peculiar character of my country, nothing against Catholicism) who were more saint then pope; .) Unfotunately judging the others they forgot about Christ’s words from St Luke gospel " Why do you see a splinter in your brother’s eye and you don’t notice a beam in yours? "

And I don’t want anyone to judge me too. It’s my own business if I pay handsome Slovak guys for sex or not. Luckily our deputies hadn’t such stupid ideas as their Russian colleagues that Russian women should belong only to Russian men and it should be approve as a law: .) But it’s a subject for another discussion.

"Yes "Keeping up with the Joneses" is not a uniquely American thing, but our consumerist society has perfected it to a new low. We treat people as disposable consumer commodities. "

I guess you found an answer why some AW behave in the bitchy way. But what’s sad that you can expect such behaviour from different people and in different places. Good example is what you wrote about teaching job. When I was in US I tried not to touch any child, but also generally people. And I think that people at this forum aren’t the only ones who are fed up of it.

"The first thing a woman asks me upon meeting is "what do you do" meaning "how much $ you make". Often the 2nd-3rd question is "what kind of car you drive". "

Not even 1, only 1 woman, asked if you like your job and she didn’t mention the money or car?

Give me hope.

Yogin

04-09-07, 18:15

Thanks for the vid. So funny because it's true. Captured perfectly the essence of AW who demand it all, play by no rules, take no responsibility for their actions, believe they can control the sexuality of all men, and then cry & pout like a little girl when it all comes back to them.

Polvo

04-09-07, 20:59

Dear gentlemen, .........And I don’t want anyone to judge me too. It’s my own business if I pay handsome Slovak guys for sex or not. .........Give me hope.

Mmbmmb:

You sound fascinating. To give you hope, to show my appreciation for your intelligence, your education, and as I am not Slovak I would be honored if you accepted my offer of a 50% discount .

Suerte!!

Polvo

Mmbmmb

04-09-07, 21:59

Angus Magee, the clip only confirmed me in my belief that there are still wonderful AW. Look at the mother of this girl. Maybe she isn’t so young and beautiful as her daughter but she hasn’t “garbage in her head’. Gentlemen, you have a woman with experience, full of life, who doesn’t want your money because she has her own one and what’s the most important she loves AM. How can you complain now :)?

Polvo, believe me that there was a big smile on my face when I saw your post and proposition but I’ll be sincere. As long as AM will give me sex for free I won’t pay even 1 cent for it.

Jelly Donut

04-10-07, 00:17

Why life is always so problematical?

I think it has something to do with desire.

You should take Polvo's offer. 50 percent off for a guy with his kind of experience is a fantastic deal. He knows things about vertical wall push-ups and side-scissor positions - makes me blush just thinking about it.

Wet Nose

04-10-07, 02:49

article written by a good ol' southern girl who appears to have ended up on another planet, which just so happened to be columbia university

http://www.nysun.com/article/47267?page_no=1

excerpts:

"one particularly disturbing day, my professor said, "all of you who are victims of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or attempted [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) raise your hands." as more than half the class raised their hands, i began to think weird thoughts. i wondered if my college required a solid sat score and emergency room records for admission.

it took me weeks to realize their definition of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) was not exactly webster's. we began to study andrea dworkin who said, "romance is [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) embellished with meaningful looks." and catherine mackinnon who said, "politically, i call it [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) whenever a woman has sex and feels violated." and marilyn french, who famously said, "all men are [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) and that's all they are." you can imagine my disillusionment to learn mister rogers of "mister rogers' neighborhood," and mahatma gandhi were predators."

Wet Nose

04-10-07, 03:35

fascinating story about erin prizzey - a woman i take my hat off for:
==================================================

how feminists tried to destroy the family

erin pizzey, founder of the battered wives' refuge, on how militant feminists - with the collusion of labour's leading women - hijacked her cause and used it to try to demonise all men.

during 1970, i was a young housewife with a husband, two children, two dogs and a cat. we lived in hammersmith, west london, and i didn't see much of my husband because he worked for tv's nationwide. i was lonely and isolated, and longed for something other than the usual cooking, cleaning and housework to enter my life.

by the early seventies, a new movement for women - demanding equality and rights - began to make headlines in the daily newspapers. among the jargon, i read the words "solidarity" and "support". i passionately believed that women would no longer find themselves isolated from each other, and in the future could unite to change our society for the better.

within a few days i had the address of a local group in chiswick, and i was on my way to join the women's liberation movement. i was asked to pay £3 and ten shillings as a joining fee, told to call other women "sisters" and that our meetings were to be called "collectives".

my fascination with this new movement lasted only a few months. at the huge "collectives", i heard shrill women preaching hatred of the family. they said the family was not a safe place for women and children. i was horrified at their virulence and violent tendencies. i stood on the same platforms trying to reason with the leading lights of this new organisation.

i ended up being thrown out by the movement. my crime was to warn some of the women working in the women's liberation movement office off shaftesbury avenue that if it persisted in cooperating with a plan to bomb biba, a fashionable clothes shop in kensington, i would call the police.

biba was bombed because the women's movement thought it was a capitalist enterprise devoted to sexualising women's bodies.

i decided that i was wasting my time trying to influence what, to my mind, was a marxist/ feminist movement touting for money from gullible women like myself.

by that time, i'd met a small group of women in my area who agreed with me. we persuaded hounslow council to give us a tiny house in belmont terrace in chiswick. we had two rooms upstairs, two rooms downstairs, a kitchen and an outside lavatory. we installed a telephone and typewriter, and we were in business.

every day after dropping my children at school, i went to our little house, which we called the women's aid. soon women from all over chiswick were coming to ask for help. at last we had somewhere women could meet each other and bring their children. my long, lonely days were over.

but then something happened that made me understand that our role was going to be more than just a forum where women could exchange ideas. one day, a lady came in to see us. she took off her jersey, and we saw that she was bruised and swollen across her breasts and back. her husband had taken a chair leg to her. she looked at me and said: "no one will help me."

for a moment i was somersaulted back in time. i was six years old, standing in front of a teacher at school. my legs were striped and bleeding from a whipping i had received from an ironing cord. "my mother did this to me last night," i said. "no wonder," replied the teacher. "'you're a dreadful child."

no one would help me then and nobody would ever imagine that my beautiful, rich mother - who was married to a diplomat - could be a violent abuser.

until that moment 35 years later, i had buried my past and assumed that because we had social workers, probation officers, doctors, hospitals and solicitors, victims of violence had enough help.

i quickly discovered, as battered women with their children poured into the house, that whatever was going on behind other people's front doors was seen as nobody else's business.

if someone was beaten up on the street, it was a criminal offence; the same beating behind a closed door was called "a domestic"' and the police had no rights or power to interfere.

the shocking fact for me was that there had been a deafening silence on the subject of domestic violence.

all the social agencies knew about domestic violence, but nobody talked about it. i searched for literature to help me understand this epidemic, but there was nothing to read except a few articles on child abuse in medical journals.

so in 1974 i decided to write scream quietly or the neighbours will hear, the first book in the world on domestic violence. i revealed that women and children were being abused in their own homes and they couldn't escape because the law wouldn't protect them.

if a husband claimed he would have his wife back, she couldn't claim any money from the department of health and social security, and social services could only offer to take the children into care.

meanwhile, our little house was packed with women fleeing their violent partners - sometimes as many as 56 mothers and children in four rooms. all had terrible stories, but i recognised almost immediately that not all the women were innocent. some were as violent as the men, and violent towards their children.

the social workers involved with these women told me i was wasting my time because the women would only return to their partners.

i was determined to try to break the chain of violence. but as the local newspaper picked up the story of our house, i grew worried about a very different threat.

i knew that the radical feminist movement was running out of national support because more sensible women had shunned their anti-male, anti-family agenda. not only were they looking for a cause, they also wanted money.

in 1974, the women living in my refuge organised a meeting in our local church hall to encourage other groups to open refuges across the country.

we were astonished and frightened that many of the radical lesbian and feminist activists that i had seen in the collectives attended. they began to vote themselves into a national movement across the country.

after a stormy argument, i left the hall with my abused mothers - and what i had most feared happened.

in a matter of months, the feminist movement hijacked the domestic violence movement, not just in britain, but internationally.

our grant was given to them and they had a legitimate reason to hate and blame all men. they came out with sweeping statements which were as biased as they were ignorant. "all women are innocent victims of men's violence," they declared.

they opened most of the refuges in the country and banned men from working in them or sitting on their governing committees.

women with alcohol or drug problems were refused admittance, as were boys over 12 years old. refuges that let men work there were refused affiliation.

our group in chiswick worked with as many refuges as we could. good, caring women still work in refuges across the country, but many women working in the feminist refuges, about 350, admit they are failing women who most need them.

with the first donation we received in 1972, we employed a male playgroup leader because we felt our children needed the experience of good, gentle men. we devised a treatment programme for women who recognised that they, too, were violent and dysfunctional. and we concentrated on children hurt by violence and sexual abuse.

yet the feminist refuges continued to create training programmes that described only male violence against women. slowly, the police and other organisations were brainwashed into ignoring the research that was proving men could also be victims.

despite attacks in the press from feminist journalists and threatening anonymous telephone calls, i continued to argue that violence was a learned pattern of behaviour from early childhood.

when, in the mid-eighties, i published prone to violence, about my work with violence-prone women and their children, i was picketed by hundreds of women from feminist refuges, holding placards which read: "all men are bastards" and "all men are [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127)".

because of violent threats, i had to have a police escort around the country.

it was bad enough that this relatively small group of women was influencing social workers and police. but i became aware of a far more insidious development in the form of public policy-making by powerful women, which was creating a poisonous attitude towards men.

in 1990, harriet harman (who became a cabinet minister), anna coote (who became an adviser to labour's minister for women) and patricia hewitt (yes, she's in the labour cabinet, too!) expressed their beliefs in a social policy paper called the family way.

it said: "it cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life, or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social harmony and cohesion."

it was a staggering attack on men and their role in modern life.

hewitt, in a book by geoff dench called transforming men published in 1995, said: "but if we want fathers to play a full role in their children's lives, then we need to bring men into the playgroups and nurseries and the schools. and here, of course, we hit the immediate difficulty of whether we can trust men with children."

in 1998, however, the home office published a historic study which stipulated that men as well as women could be victims of domestic violence.

with that report in my hand, i tried to reason with joan ruddock, who was then minister for women. the figures for battered men were "minuscule" she insisted and she continued to refer to men only as "perpetrators".

for nearly four decades, these pernicious attitudes towards family life, fathers and boys have permeated the thinking of our society to such an extent that male teachers and carers are now afraid to touch or cuddle children.

men can be accused of violence towards their partners and sexual abuse without evidence. courts discriminate against fathers and refuse to allow them access to their children on the whims of vicious partners.

of course, there are dangerous men who manipulate the court systems and social services to persecute their partners and children. but by blaming all men, we have diluted the focus on this minority of men and pushed aside the many men who would be willing to work with women towards solutions.

i believe that the feminist movement envisaged a new utopia that depended upon destroying family life. in the new century, so their credo ran, the family unit will consist of only women and their children. fathers are dispensable. and all that was yoked - unforgivably - to the debate about domestic violence.

to my mind, it has never been a gender issue - those exposed to violence in early childhood often grow up to repeat what they have learned, regardless of whether they are girls or boys.

i look back with sadness to my young self and my vision that there could be places where people - men, women and children who have suffered physical and sexual abuse - could find help, and if they were violent could be given a second chance to learn to live peacefully.

i believe that vision was hijacked by vengeful women who have ghetto-ised the refuge movement and used it to persecute men. surely the time has come to challenge this evil ideology and insist that men take their rightful place in the refuge movement.

we need an inclusive movement that offers support to everyone that needs it. as for me - i will always continue to work with anyone who needs my help or can help others - and yes, that includes men.

Jelly Donut

04-10-07, 04:05

mmbmmb -

One other thing, I read your last post completely just now.

I can't resist the irony of correcting you on this point - since you seem to celebrate Easter this past weekend and you are not among saints here. I'm pretty sure you are quoting the book of Matthew, not Luke. Sermon on the Mount.

Not that I'm being judgmental or anything like that....

Unfotunately judging the others they forgot about Christ’s words from St Luke gospel " Why do you see a splinter in your brother’s eye and you don’t notice a beam in yours? "

Mmbmmb

04-10-07, 15:30

Jelly Donut,

I think that only partly it’s a problem with desire. We simply should support the financing of researches on cloning. Maybe it would solve the problem of desire.
And nobody undermines Polvo’s skills. I just can have the same for free. You can’t know the skills of AM I’ve met.

And you’re right. These words are also from St Matthew’s gospel (7:1-6) but you can find them in St Luke’s version of Sermon on the Mount (6:41-42).

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%206:41-42;&version=49;

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%20Matthew%207:1-6;&version=31;

I simply don’t remember all Bible by heart. I translated the sentence from memory and now I see that I even made some mistakes. Sorry.

Besides I’m not a good catholic. I don’t go to the church. For me celebrating Easter means visiting friends and family, going to the graves of relatives etc.

Don’t think that Poland is very catholic country. Most people don’t read encyclics although sometimes a stain on glass can become a Mother of God’s miraculous portrait and gatheres a crowd of believers.

Anyway the level of faith and its maturity in Poland has nothing to do with the thread about AW.

Polvo

04-10-07, 19:39

.....And nobody undermines Polvo’s skills. I just can have the same for free. You can’t know the skills of AM I’ve met......

Mmbmmb

OK. What about a Gin and Tonic then?

And if I can quote Blazing Saddles - sung with a German accent - "...American Men are always coming and going, coming and going, and coming too soon....."

Polvo

Jelly Donut

04-10-07, 20:18

Well I'll be damned.

I stand adjusted on my understanding of The Bible. Thanks.

And you’re right. These words are also from St Matthew’s gospel (7:1-6) but you can find them in St Luke’s version of Sermon on the Mount (6:41-42).

Polvo

04-10-07, 20:35

Well I'll be damned......

I have spoken with Him and that has been arranged.

Polvo

Jelly Donut

04-10-07, 20:37

....so I got that going for me.

I have spoken with Him and that has been arranged.

Polvo

Polvo

04-10-07, 20:56

....so I got that going for me.

You will not be lonely!! See you there!! :-)

Polvo

Mmbmmb

04-10-07, 22:55

Mmbmmb

OK. What about a Gin and Tonic then?

And if I can quote Blazing Saddles - sung with a German accent - "...American Men are always coming and going, coming and going, and coming too soon....."

PolvoIf any cowboy doesn’t want to look at me anymore I always can console myself with the thought that there are still English men, the most manly men in the world :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9DpC6x75s8

And if any AW doesn’t want to look at you gentlemen you can always console yourselves with the thought that you can find beautiful English girls. There’s only one condition, you have to get the right key ;-) to their hearts of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIlW7_6y4h4&mode=related&search=

Gin and Tonic sounds better then 50% discount :-)

Polvo

04-11-07, 04:27

If any cowboy doesn’t want to look at me anymore I always can console myself with the thought that there are still English men, the most manly men in the world :-)

English??? English?? The emasculated effetes who surrendered without a shot being fired???

Nope. Wrong pigeon hole! The Gin and Tonic threw you. I am a gentleman though, and one who would leave you stirred, not shaken!

Polvo

Mmbmmb

04-11-07, 12:21

Gentlemen, isn’t there any English man? Does a Polish girl have to defend your honour?

Polvo, isn’t it a first agent (or rather 7th one) of her Majesty who’s a dream of all women? And even if sometimes he has the face of Irish guy Pierce Brosnan, who would remember such details?

Nope. Wrong pigeon hole! The Gin and Tonic threw you.

PolvoWhy men are so cruel and radical in their behaviour?

Well, I guess the only one thing I can do for goodbye it’s dedicating you another song.

Jelly Donut

04-11-07, 15:32

And if any AW doesn’t want to look at you gentlemen you can always console yourselves with the thought that you can find beautiful English girls. There’s only one condition, you have to get the right key ;-) to their hearts of course.

You bring up a good point.

English girls are close cousins of the AW, along with Canadians, Australians and whatever you call people from New Zealand.

Most anything you can say about American girls you can tag onto an English girl. And for these reasons, most American guys step lightly on that territory. An English girl can bring impeccable manners, a more refined sense of propriety and a solid understanding of the common law to any relationship - all of these things work to the disadvantage of American men. She is likely to speak with an accent which either reminds Americans of Tony Blair or Queen Elizabeth II. In the United States this is considered a disadvantage in bed.

In fact, the American understanding of English culture marks probably one of the great dividing lines in American culture. If you asked an American guy to name a famous Englishman he would probably need a second and come back with something like Mick Jagger or Winston Churchill. On a good day, he might throw in Austin Powers or James Bond. But there are a lot of American girls who would kick off the list with Princess Diana and her sons, then take you on a remarkable tour of the extended royal family, a brief history of Romantic & Victorian novelists (and their impact on American television and movies) and top off the list with J.K. Rowling or, on a good day, Madonna. Many American girls love British culture and are captivated by "the royals".

This plays off a sick strand in American culture of sucking up to the British monarchy. You would think we would be over it after 230 years of independence. But a lot of American girls are raised with the idea of being a princess, I know this happens in other places and cultures as well, but in the United States a girl can hold onto these ideas for a very long time. I've met women here well into their 50s who proudly underscore their self-perception as a 'princess'. It's a nice fantasy, but an expensive reality, and something that I think breeds a degree of unhappiness in relationships. A lot of American girls look to British royalty and novels for models of bourgeois and royal behavior. They point to England with it's real, live princesses - well-branded and idle - as a model of how to live.

Polvo

04-11-07, 15:57

jelly:

you thoughtful individual you!!

.....english girls are close cousins of the aw, along with canadians, australians and whatever you call people from new zealand. ....anything you can say about american girls you can tag onto an english girl. is it not simply, any female from a "developed" country?

.....she is likely to speak with an accent which either reminds americans of tony blair or queen elizabeth ii. in the united states this is considered a disadvantage in bed....in europe it is considered bad manners to talk when your mouth is full!!

"....a lot of american girls are raised with the idea of being a princess..." is it a "princess" orientation or more the "hollywood barbie starf*cker" + "beauy pageant queen" ideal??

....american culture....now, a smart arsed englishman would be quick to inform you that your phrase is an oxymoron. whereas, in reality, they arrogantly fail to understand that it is just a different set of "rules". i am always intrigued by americans rigorous defence of not only personal liberties but also national liberties and the pursuit, albeit sometines elusive,of free speech, the american constitution is in fact an astounding document if time is taken to read it. however, the feminazis have hijacked free speech to a large extent and are using it to restrict much real discourse as dissent is not called free speech! as a point of interest, and other than pure revenge, would anyone, really, really, want to pork rosie o'donnell??

jelly, you have always struck me as a hugely entertaining indiividual, and i now see that the river also runs deep. my compliments.

now, a propos nothing, i have had a dump in buckingham palace and it was not as a tourist! beat that for a royal flush!

suerte!

polvo

Yogin

04-11-07, 15:59

Mmbmmb

04-11-07, 20:54

Well, I guess the only one thing I can do for goodbye it’s dedicating you another song.Polvo,

There should be a link to this song. Sorry, for sure it's my fault.

It's Marilyn Monroe's "Bye bye baby", very nice song.

Jelly Donut

04-12-07, 00:29

Polvo -

You've always got such good words, man. I have to admit I am jealous of the royal dump.

Yogin -

Don't get too worked up. In twenty years, by the time that 4 year old is carrying out her diabolical plans, if you keep your head about you, you are going be to hanging out on some sunny beach with a girl about half your age and twice as sexy as any girl in your discussion group now. The best revenge.

Polvo

04-12-07, 02:53

Gentlemen, isn’t there any English man? Does a Polish girl have to defend your honour?.....Polvo, isn’t it a first agent (or rather 7th one) of her Majesty who’s a dream of all women? And even if sometimes he has the face of Irish guy Pierce Brosnan, who would remember such details?....Why men are so cruel and radical in their behaviour?.....Well, I guess the only one thing I can do for goodbye it’s dedicating you another song......It's Marilyn Monroe's "Bye bye baby", very nice song.
Mmbmmb:

My apologies - the time lag between your post being reviewed by the moderator and my reading the thread meant I missed this post!!

You nearly got it, I am deeply impressed. The first agent 007 was Sir Sean Connery, a Scot. Who liked his Martini shaken, not stirred. I, however, always feel a lady should be stirred - not shaken by an encounter. It is important to be nice and respectful to everyone! I was attempting a very obscure and subtle juxtaposition.

A sassenach is a "lowlander" to be classically correct. So, although it is now a derrogatory term by a Scot for the English, it should really encompass the borderers who live in Scotland adjacent to the physical English border.

But I am puzzled by your later question:
.......Why men are so cruel and radical in their behaviour?....I am trying to work out how that thought was triggered.

Hate to see you say goodbye! You provoke thought. Do not go gently into that dark night.

Suerte!

Polvo

CBGBConnisur

04-12-07, 12:30

jelly:

you thoughtful individual you!!

is it not simply, any female from a "developed" country?

in europe it is considered bad manners to talk when your mouth is full!!

is it a "princess" orientation or more the "hollywood barbie starf*cker" + "beauy pageant queen" ideal??

now, a smart arsed englishman would be quick to inform you that your phrase is an oxymoron. whereas, in reality, they arrogantly fail to understand that it is just a different set of "rules". i am always intrigued by americans rigorous defence of not only personal liberties but also national liberties and the pursuit, albeit sometines elusive,of free speech, the american constitution is in fact an astounding document if time is taken to read it. however, the feminazis have hijacked free speech to a large extent and are using it to restrict much real discourse as dissent is not called free speech! as a point of interest, and other than pure revenge, would anyone, really, really, want to pork rosie o'donnell??

jelly, you have always struck me as a hugely entertaining indiividual, and i now see that the river also runs deep. my compliments.

now, a propos nothing, i have had a dump in buckingham palace and it was not as a tourist! beat that for a royal flush!

suerte!

polvo

aussie women differ from other english speaking females since they are good for a cheap date and a night of good sex. they are not women to marry though. with american, british, and canadian women you will have to wine and dine them until they will spread their legs for you. an australian woman will be a horrible wife.

Jelly Donut

04-12-07, 13:08

After a year of intensive education in the ways of American law and society, three men walk free. "This case shows the enormous consequences of overreaching by a prosecutor"

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070412/NATION/704120367/1020

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/us/12duke.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Mmbmmb

04-12-07, 20:22

polvo,

isn’t it ironical that from 6 actors who impersonated bond only 2 were englishmen (moore and craig) and the ideal of englishman is still a scot sean connery? but i admit that i didn’t watch "casino royale" so it would be unfair to judge daniel craig. i remind myself also another proof that life is malicious. isn’t it ironical that the ideal of a scot is american, mel gibson, who wonderfully played the role of william wallace?

anyway i watched "robin hood: men in tights" so my opinion about englishmen (that they‘re manly men) is still the same:.)

[non-english text deleted by admin]

and if it’s about my question, i guess i misunderstood you.

your nickname misled me;.) no offence but "dust" doesn’t fit to you. you should rather name yourself "rojo león" because you join the spanish temperament and the bravery of scottish lion. i think that’s way you dared to insult englishmen and you decided to withdraw your offer of gin and tonic.

but now everything’s clear.

unfortunately i’ll have to say goodbye soon. on monday my vacation is over and i have to come back to work and at university. so gentlemen, forgive me but i won’t be able to devote my time to the forum.

but i was thinking about your opinions all the time. it’s hard to throw out of my head the imaginations of polvo’s skills;.) so unintentionally i think about this forum. i wonder why the situation of "developed", rich societies (and i guess polish people aspire to be the one) is so horrible as you describe is. why people who have everything (money, health, good jobs, friends, families, and what the most important unlimited possibilities) are unhappy?

you write, gentlemen, about "a princess syndrome" (i have to remember "hollywood barbie starf*cker". i didn’t hear it:.)) but i’d like to ask who put the idea of being the world’s centre into aw’s heads. i don’t think it’s genetic disease. aw aren’t born as monsters with twisted psyche (i still think they aren’t them).

and please, gentlemen, don’t write that it’s feminism because it would be a simplification. one of you wrote that he doesn’t need and he doesn’t want a slave. thanks to feminism women can vote, work in the same professions as men and they aren’t anyone’s property. feminism, as ideology, caused improvement women and men’s life. besides feminism has a lot of faces/directions.

however, the feminazis have hijacked free speech to a large extent and are using it to restrict much real discourse as dissent is not called free speech!
it’s not a problem of free speech, polvo. i know the better words to describe it: “political correctness” or rather it’s about a level it reached. there are still some taboos you can’t talk about e.g. homosexual marriages or also “princess syndrome”. and you can’t talk about them because you have to declare for or against. unluckily there’s nothing between, only attitude “you’re with us or against us. and if you’re against us you’re an enemy.” besides as i wrote earlier people forgot how to communicate but it’s another issue.

and political correctness isn’t only a problem of us.

editor's note: this report was edited to remove text not in english. while i encourage contributions from all volunteers, the forum is an english-only website. please do not post reports in any language other than english. thanks!

Mmbmmb

04-12-07, 20:31

This is precisely what the AW builds her dream fantasy wedding on: Anglophilia. All that mumbo jumbo ritual, ridiculous expense, unrealistic expectation of the "perfect" wedding are based on some idiotic vision of a mythic British royal wedding. Planning their wedding since age 4.

Then eventually (?) they wake up to be disappointed disillusioned angry biddies who blame us for their unhappiness.Yogin, I still think that it’s a problem of consumer society. Anglophilia is a symptom not a reason. The British royal family is simply in fashion. Now it’s good business which brings money from tourists, media and also Englishmen. And of course it’s the best advertisement of England.

The same is with J.K. Rowling. Her books aren’t bad but they aren't also outstanding. Isn’t it a question of good marketing?

I’m not sure how to describe it to you so maybe I give you an example. When I came to US and I started to work there I could afford to buy different goods of brands which are perceived as luxurious in EE. But when I put on a Donna Karan’s shirt and I had a Dior’s mascara on my eyelashes I still looked normally. I mean nothing changed, I wasn’t prettier then before. The brutal truth is that if you have a big butt, even jeans from Armani can’t change it but when your butt is quite nice it doesn’t matter if you wear “no name” jeans or Armani ones because you still look good. I want to say that some AW (but also AM) think they can buy happiness, that they will be together to the end of their lives if they have 15 bridesmaids and expensive limousine on their wedding. It’s similar to situation when your neighbor has new Audi TT and you have old Ford. You can be sure that your neighbor will boast his new purchase. He can think that with this car he can pick up more pretty girls then with old Ford. Maybe it’s truth but it doesn’t guarantee that the girls won’t have “garbage in their heads”.

Rock Dog

04-13-07, 00:42

Bingo! Consumerism, which is just a fancy word for greed, is a big part of the problem. This isn't limited to USA/UK/Canada but it is very pronounced here. Now you add materialism, (the brother of consumerism) with some unrealistic expectations and a strong sense of entitlement. Voila! you have the perfect recipe for a bunch of unhappy people.

All the D+G, Armani, Prada, Lexus and Chanel in the world won't make you happy if you're empty inside. That's a big part of the problem here, women AND men are empty on the inside. There's no sense of higher purpose, no deeper meaning to anything we do. Everyone scurries around trying to be some kind of big-shot, trying to fill their lives with useless stuff so that the people they know will be impressed.

That's the reason behind these stupid overdone weddings and bigass houses with 2 SUVS in the driveway and 6 TV's inside. That's why all these average looking women keep trying to come across like they are something special. This is why so many people these days have this overblown sense of self-esteem. Everybody wants to be a somebody, they want to be "special". They usually don't have what it takes to actually BE special, but that doesn't stop them from wanting it.

Rock

Angus Magee

04-13-07, 01:30

Polvo,

Isn’t it ironical that from 6 actors who impersonated Bond only 2 were Englishmen (Moore and Craig) and the ideal of Englishman is still a Scot Sean Connery?

In fact 7 actors have portrayed Bond. The 7th was also an Englishman. He is almost always forgotten.

What is his name?

Polvo

04-13-07, 03:03

In fact 7 actors have portrayed Bond. The 7th was also an Englishman. He is almost always forgotten....What is his name?Angus:

Complicated. There were three "official" English James Bonds'. Mmbmmb did not mention George Lazenby, who was crap, and his Bond girl (Diana Rigg) hated him so much she ate garlic when they did scenes together to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) him off.

However, David Niven did do an "unofficial" film. He could be your 7th, as there were only six "official" actors.

Sean Connery (1962-1967; 1971)
George Lazenby (1969)
Roger Moore (1973-1985)
Timothy Dalton (1987-1989)
Pierce Brosnan (1995-2004)
Daniel Craig (2006-present).

Your nickname misled me;.) No offence but "dust" doesn’t fit to you. You should rather name yourself "Rojo León" because you join the Spanish temperament and the bravery of Scottish lion. I think that’s way you dared to insult Englishmen and you decided to withdraw your offer of gin and tonic.Mmbmmb:
The Scottish Lion is a "Lion Rampant", whereas the English Lion is a "Lion Passant" - guess which one I would prefer and thank you for the compliment.

Isn’t it ironical that the ideal of a Scot is American, Mel Gibson, who wonderfully played the role of William Wallace?In fact I did go to the very same school that William Wallace did - I firmly believe I had the same damn desk!! But I am not Scottish.

So, you can see that I do have an identity problem sometimes. But "Polvo" is Peruvian slang for a specific activity - dust is one of the "proper" translations.

And, I have not withdrawn my offer for you to buy me a Gin and Tonic. I would love to see you in, or out, of those no-name jeans!

Work to live - don't live to work!!

Suerte!

Polvo

Mmbmmb

04-15-07, 01:45

angus magee,

is polvo right and you think about david niven? he was bond in “casino royale” in 1967.

and of course i forgot about george lazenby. he was born in australia but it doesn’t mean that he’s a worse subject of her majesty then moore or craig

and, i have not withdrawn my offer for you to buy me a gin and tonic. i would love to see you in, or out, of those no-name jeans!

work to live - don't live to work!!polvo,

your proposition flatter me and i can’t believe that so charming and talented man decided to be interested in my modest person.

however for one reason i have to (with sorrow) reject your offer. you see, this cowboy who’s the master of kissing women’s breasts is still my favorite provider of free sex. and because he joins the temperament of asian tiger and strenght of american grizzly ;-) it’s hard to satisfy him. even if i like sport, my condition isn’t so good to spend an evening with the “american grizzly” and after a night with the rampant scottish lion. i’m afraid it’s the fastest way to get a heart attack ;-)
and besides i didn’t stop to believe in the theory about plants and people. if my faithfulness is like water for the grizzly how could i deprive him of it? so please, don’t be disappointed of my attitude

rock dog,

i agree with what you wrote but i want to draw your attention to one more thing (i don’t want you to misunderstand what i wrote before).

consumerism is only one side of problem but old ford, instead of new audi, also won’t guarantee you happiness. because the problem isn’t in the things, it’s in people’s heads. a dior’s mascara or lexus are only a piece of plastic or metal, nothing more. you wrote that there’s no higher purpose in people’s behavior but i think there is. we all want happiness even if, as you wrote, we can’t describe what it is.

buying dior’s mascara i decided to spend x dollars more for it then for maxfactor’s product because my female friends told me” mmbmmb, it’s better then maxfactor. you’ll see the difference. you will look like models on the commercials”.

(the question if the product is really better and worth the x dollars more it’s another issue.) anyway i thought, quoting l’oreal’s slogan, “am i not worth of it?” ;-)
and i wanted to look nicely for a date with my cowboy. of course as a simple man he noticed only a new bra (which was also pretty) but he didn’t say anything about my eyelashes. and because i’m sure he’s a man with a big sense of beauty i understood that i simply didn’t look like models on billboards ;-) tell me, how do you think, is it a fault of dior’s mascara or my unrealistic expectation? on the other hand, do you think that grizzly would say anything about maxfactor’s mascara? i don’t think so :-)

similar situation is with ford and audi. both are a piece of metal and both give you the same chance to pick up a valuable girl because the valuable girl looks at you, not at your car. if you knew that your car is more important for her then you, would you still want her? so is it fault a car that you can’t meet any valuable women or your expectation that with audi you must meet her and with ford you have no chance for it?

and, gentlemen, because it’s a thread about aw (not about eew or am :-)) let they be another example. i’m sure you watched/ heard about a programme called “swan”, “i want to be a sawn” or “to be a swan”. sorry, i don’t remember the exact title but it was something about swan. in reality the programme wasn’t about animals but about women who from ugly duck wanted to change into beautiful swan. i saw 2 or 3 episodes but i remember only one woman who really needed help. she hadn’t her own teeth, generally all teeth, and i think they helped her paying for an expensive dental treatment what was even better for her health then for appearance. the rest of the ladies needed more a good psychotherapist then this programme. don’t think they weren’t normal, they were. they only had very low self-esteem. to tell the truth they didn’t need plastic surgery. they should go to the gym and lose some kilos, buy new, pretty dresses, go to the hairdresser and to a person who would show them how to make-up themselves. they would look better after these things then after the programme. by the way, did you notice that after changes ladies looked like the sisters? i mean the ideal of beauty was a big breast (the best long-hired and blond) barbie and they tried to change all women into it, even if they were petite brunettes.

anyway, do you think that the real life of the women changed so much after the programme? were they better employees, wives, mothers? or they were the same but only with the new breasts and haircut? i wonder what will be with them in 20, 30 years? will they accept with cheerfulness and distance that they don’t look like a barbie ideal? and i wonder how they look after a few years. will someone, who didn’t have a habit of caring about oneself, be able to keep the regime of the exercises and diet?

so gentlemen, i think that the ladies were happier after the programme but did it bring them the real happiness? does it mean that without this programme their life would be nothing, that without this programme they couldn’t enjoy it? i hope not.
it would be frightening if someone conditions the sense of life from the his/her appearance.

i don’t say that beauty isn’t important. everyone likes to have around oneself beautiful things and we like to look at beautiful people. so it’s nothing wrong if you have money and want to buy a nice painting or armani jeans. the problem is when you believe that only because you bought the armani jeans your butt will look slimmer then it is in reality. it’s nothing wrong that you want to look like a barbie (we don’t discuss here about people’s tastes, some people like pamela anderson and the others angelina jolie, it’s normal). it’s something wrong when you believe that the barbie look will make you a better person. when you think it will give you people’s admiration or love only because you have big breasts and pretty face.

Angus Magee

04-15-07, 08:59

Angus Magee,

Is Polvo right and you think about David Niven? He was Bond in “Casino Royale” in 1967.

Yes, David Niven is the forgotten Bond. Though it is also true that the original "Casino Royal" was not part of the official Bond franchise and he is therefore not considered an official Bond character. As for me, I find him one of the best. Of course Sir Sean is, for my money, Top-Bond.

Rock Dog

04-22-07, 16:58

DJ FourMoney

04-23-07, 22:53

Six days and not a single new post.

I hereby move that the previous line of discussion be considered dead and buried and forgotten for all time. Surely someone has something relevant to say. Relevant that is, to the topic of this forum.

Rock

Relevant?

Maybe its time we quit bashing and start actually doing something about it.

Mmbmmb has tried to point out that the "grass might not be greener" and that maybe we should focus more locally and on ourselves.

Fact is, I can live life without a woman in it, its pretty easy. I could have gone to Europe as early as mid Jan, but I choose to focus on one of my favorite hobbies instead.

I'm finally tired of local woman so I have decided to go now before the summertime rush.

As I have mentioned before my situation is unique and that doesn't go over too well with American women. Of the European woman I have come into contact with locally, they don't care about my living arrangement but so far that hasn't worked out too well. I think its strictly a numbers thing, eventually I'll "hit" on something and it will click.

But I rather go to the source than deal with local competition, which tends to leave women a bit jaded by the time you meet them.

I refuse to spend any more time and money on American woman and I will not go to other locations within our shores to find somebody, I rather venture beyond our shores, its more exciting anyway...

Jelly Donut

04-24-07, 03:47

I was reading some of the original posts on this thread. I've made it to post #12. Only about 5369 to go...

'Mill Just' has some interesting thinking going on in Post #12, June 2002. Some very provocative stuff, basically floating some very un-WSG kind of thinking around. "Women are experiencing growing pains as a gender and this, my friend IS a monster that we DID create because we held women as inferiors and took advantage of them for ages" What sort of person capitalizes the verb TO BE? Was this guy shipped off to a WSG reeducation camp? It seems like he's whoring around Mexico these days. So I think the story has a happy ending.

Freaking Marxists. I swear they will move any idea forward if they think it will get them laid. I myself kept a copy of Gerder Lerner's "Creation of Patriarchy" on my bookshelf for years in the hope it might help move the ball forward. Not sure that it worked, although I did nail a Yalie while it sat on my shelves.

There's an excellent book called "The Botany of Desire", by Michael Pollan. He argues from the perspective of plants - makes a case for how men have been manipulated by various plants in order to promote the plants respective biological agendas. It's an interesting read and I can't do justice to his arguments here - but I think someone reading it might reflect that just because something seems "inferior" does not mean it's failing to accomplish it's biological destiny or that it's being taken advantage of...

I think I just compared women to plants. So I think I'll stop there.

Polvo

04-24-07, 04:55

.... I hereby move that the previous line of discussion be considered dead and buried and forgotten for all time. Surely someone has something relevant to say. Relevant ....RockRock:

Dammit man, I was trying to get my leg over Mmbmmb. Surely that is the ultimate relevancy of this forum!! :-)

Onwards.

One thing that struck me , and I think with the authors that Jelly discussed amply demonstrated, that perhaps we are simply being too erudite.

There is an immutable law in nature called The Golden Rule. (He who has the gold rules.) Now, in old legal circles "He" covers all genders. So, is the problem not simply a case of economics. Look at our board. The countries where we males have the most fun tend to have the lower GDP and a poor distribution of income. So, as you go up the GDP scale the women have more money (without the aid of the court system yet) so they now have the gold as well! We end up with an problem. The result is that they then have an "elevated" sense of the worth of their goods, that is beyond what the market will now pay. Impasse. This is amply demonstrated in the way they "sell" their wares; a different , complex and completely obnoxious manner to us simple folk (men) who want a straightforward transaction. And American women have the highest disposable income of any other society.

Could it be this simple? Economics?

Polvo

DJ FourMoney

04-24-07, 07:57

Rock:

Dammit man, I was trying to get my leg over Mmbmmb. Surely that is the ultimate relevancy of this forum!! :-)

Onwards.

One thing that struck me , and I think with the authors that Jelly discussed amply demonstrated, that perhaps we are simply being too erudite.

There is an immutable law in nature called The Golden Rule. (He who has the gold rules.) Now, in old legal circles "He" covers all genders. So, is the problem not simply a case of economics. Look at our board. The countries where we males have the most fun tend to have the lower GDP and a poor distribution of income. So, as you go up the GDP scale the women have more money (without the aid of the court system yet) so they don't need to be subservient. They just sell their wares in a different , complex and completely obnoxious manner to us simple folk (men) who want a straightforward transaction. And American women have the highest disposable income of any other society.

Could it be this simple? Economics?

Polvo

I think there alot of factors internationally compared to nationally.

Nationally we are up against the Media at large, weather it be Oprah, The View, Fox News or E!

Combine that with the larger income of American women and you have the problems we have now with unrealistic expectations of a relationship. That is if she's from the top say 10% of woman in your area. Those with children, social problems and/or physical problems BETTER have a lower expectations otherwise they'll spend a majority of life SINGLE.

No matter how beautiful a single mother is, chances are she's been views as a easy sex target by many younger single men and more often than not, that is very much the case, they are easier targets.

So I that goes to Social Economics, more than financial economics.

If your a 8-9 or 10 and childless, your social value is very high and woman play that to their advantage, I don't care if they live in the US or in the Ukraine.

But because we are taught to be impressive to woman to win them over in the US, we try those same tactics on European, South American and Asian women when its really not needed.

In other words, YOUR social worth is measured not so much by how you look, where you work, what car you drive or where you live, its the content of your personalty and your soul that's more important to these woman, as many of them are very traditional when it comes to families.

Many American woman loath the idea of being traditional as that is passe to many of them, especially in large urban areas like Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Dallas and Miami.

Look at personal ads, how many of them claim to be great cooks? Very few and if they are, they come from where they "grow" such woman. Those same women that want something beyond that shiet-kicker moron they dated in high school. But "city life" as upped their expectations and its more difficult than it needs to be to date such woman.

Its simple; American woman, all shapes, color and sizes put a perceive value on there pussy. Its usually over-valued, which it explain the sense of entitlement behavior of BBW's....

Women from other counties, know there's another woman around the corner that if they don't grab you, somebody else will. That raises your value as a man to these woman.

American women don't value you the same way.

But that plays differently depending on some factors.

If your American, while that might seem to be played out, it actually isn't you just have to play to a crowd that accepts you.

All I'm really saying is this -

As an American Man, Black, White, Latino, Asian, whatever, your best SERVED by Freebies & potential "wifey" material by women NOT FROM NORTH AMERICA.

Jelly Donut

04-24-07, 12:35

And American women have the highest disposable income of any other society.

I did not know that. Is it that much higher than the other original OECD countries?

Look at personal ads, how many of them claim to be great cooks?

Yeah, none, of course. I'm a reasonably good cook; I learned mainly in order to help get women in the sack. I think this helped, but these days I do my own cooking in order to eat well while keeping expenses down. As a "confirmed" single guy I need to pay more attention to these things. As I understand it, my life expectancy is lower than the life expectancy for married guys.

I don't really understand how that is possible. The majority of the married guys I know are stressed and apparently miserable. I go out of my way not to show them my lastest "friends" from South America, since it would only add to the misery all the way around. Anyway, since I'm free I have way more time than married guys to be outside and recreating; I have less stress. It seems like I should be able to out-pace those miserable husbands.

Polvo

04-24-07, 13:49

I did not know that. Is it that much higher than the other original OECD countries?

....... As I understand it, my life expectancy is lower than the life expectancy for married guys.........

Jelly:

I will check and see if I have the figures.

Regarding life expectancy, I saw that report and immediately decided it was complete rubbish - mainly for the reasons you have stated - so I didn't read it very closely. Thinking back though, I cannot recall if "single" also included divorced. Of whom there are a shit-load. I can see them going tits up before anyone else, because that is a much more stressful environment (emotionally, physically, financally). BUT - if one is the standard issue American male and single, have not heard of ISG or the prepondarance of pussy beyond the shining seas, and trying to deal with American women, one might just be simply masturbating to death!

Suerte!

Polvo

Jelly Donut

04-24-07, 15:06

No big deal with the figures of course - I'm just trying to grapple with the differences between American girls and girls in other rich countries. I think we have more weight, but I'm optimistic the Indians are going to crush us in that category in a few years.

The whole cooking thing is funny. Just one more thing I did mostly to seem more attractive and charming for the AW. I think about the amount of time, effort, money and resources I tossed into the American Dating Sweepstakes - I really should have spending more time learning Spanish or, I guess, Polish. Indonesian sure would be a nice thing to have in my toolkit just now. Of course, when you are playing the ADS you assume you are going to win and that keeps you from thinking things through.

Jelly:

I will check and see if I have the figures.

Regarding life expectancy, I saw that report and immediately decided it was complete rubbish - mainly for the reasons you have stated - so I didn't read it very closely. Thinking back though, I cannot recall if "single" also included divorced. Of whom there are a shit-load. I can see them going tits up before anyone else, because that is a much more stressful environment (emotionally, physically, financally). BUT - if one is the standard issue American male and single, have not heard of ISG or the prepondarance of pussy beyond the shining seas, and trying to deal with American women, one might just be simply masturbating to death!

Suerte!

Polvo

Polvo

04-24-07, 16:29

......I think we have more weight.....
It's the McDonalds - not your cooking!

......I really should have spending more time learning Spanish or, I guess, Polish. Indonesian sure would be a nice thing to have in my toolkit just now. .
Accuerdo! I was trained as a French linguist and I speak gutter German (Is this your tank? Hands up etc.). Complete waste of time. Spanish fluency is essential in this axis. I worked a lot in Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. I found that limping along in English worked most of the time as a "bule".

Salut

Polvo

Mmbmmb

04-25-07, 00:34

Dammit man, I was trying to get my leg over Mmbmmb. Surely that is the ultimate relevancy of this forum!! :-)

PolvoPolvo,

What if I’m fat, ugly and bald. Do you still want to get your leg over someone who Greenpeace confuses with a whale? ;-) Be careful what you ask for ;-)

Gentlemen, I had to write something because I can’t believe in what you wrote.

Money,money,money. I understand they’re important but if it’s only about money what am I doing here? Hmm, sometimes I think that I just liked you gentlemen :-) because even if in reality you can be bald, fat and ugly, you showed me your second, nicer face on the forum. And gentlemen, I really would like a girl to grab you and to harass sexually so much that you wouldn’t have strenght to discuss with me anymore ;-)

And because I can’t believe that such people as you, who are intelligent and charming, are still full of bitterness. So I decided to write the second part of my golden thoughts ;-)

Ok gentlemen. I guess that at the beginning we have to fix one thing. Even if it’s the forum about “P4P” I understand we talk about true love and true feelings, not about how much you have to pay for love. There are another threads for that. Otherwise you wouldn’t complain so much that you can’t meet the woman of your life.

So, you claim that women outside US are subservient (because they’re poor, yes?), or rather they have to be if they don’t want to be single. Maybe it’s partly truth.
But no offence, with such attitude, soon you will have to look for your ideal princess on Mars. Nothing against green beauties but you have to remember that the fly tickets are expensive in this case :-)

Do you really think that my only one ambition is to find a stupid American and to use him for his money? Gentlemen, believe me, I wouldn’t waste my life for it because it’s too short.

I remind myself a document about Russian brides and after I watched it I thought: “ Jesus Christ, what happened to Russia if these poor girls have to marry a guy who doesn’t even understand them?” Don’t tell me it’s a true love when the only one thing between them is sex. I understand that she wants better life for herself and her children but what about this guy? What is he looking for? And don’t use “creative linguistics”. We can name it “a hope for happiness with Russian woman” but in reality it’s a form of prostitution (very sad form). She doesn’t get money but a visa to US (it’s some kind of benefit). He gets free cleaning lady, cook and (forgive me my language) free pussy, at least to the moment she will learn English. I don’t want to judge it. If they are happy, it’s their own business but why after he complains that she’s a b**ch and wants a divorce?

Here I’d like to ask you what true love means to you? I hope it’s not only sex or subservient attitude and you don’t look only for it.

Gentlemen, besides I have impression that you think they sell happiness in a store at the corner. And what’s the most funny that they even will give you a guarantee for it :-) I mean you think that if you get a wife for Europe ,SA, or Asia she has to be wonderful, to be a good cook and the hot lover. Of course she can be a wonderful girl but the nationality has nothing to do with it.

DJ FourMoney:
In other words, YOUR social worth is measured not so much by how you look, where you work, what car you drive or where you live, its the content of your personalty and your soul that's more important to these woman, as many of them are very traditional when it comes to families

And what does it mean “traditional”? Yes, you’re right that personality and soul is the most important but what it has to do with the “traditional” family?

And by the way, I admire to cook because nothing tastes so good as a whipped cream with strawberries, made by myself :-), when I feed them my favorite grizzly ;-) Is it traditional? maybe it’s not original but traditional ;-)?

So, DJ FourMoney, let’s go to the part of your post where you wrote about less valuable girls, these ones who are with social problems and children. I’m afraid to ask but what kind of social problems you think about? I hope it’s not something like: ”I’m illegal immigrant, please good mister, take care of me.” ;-) In this case I agree she would do everything for you and she won’t care if she’s valuable or not.

And do you think that if she really loves you the children are problem? I don’t want to be an authority here, I don’t have children. For sure children are expensive, emotionally and financially, but I guess we talk about a situation when you both want to create a normal family, not about situation when you’re an ATM (then it’s love for dollars not you). So if you had a child would you feel less valuable only because you want to love someone again? But maybe single fathers are also passé on the US dating scene? Does it mean that even if they have a beautiful soul any women won’t look at them because they have children? I don’t believe in it.

I wonder where you look for your perfect woman if you have such experiences. And please, don’t think I’m malicious.

And I would forget about the people with physical problems. Do they also have to show lower expectations (= it means to agree for dating with people who have garbage in their heads ???) to find love? And what if, for example, you have burnt skin on your face? Would you be another person inside or the same DJ FourMoney? So the only one thing which left is to shoot oneself because now you won’t find any valuable girl? Maybe it’s better solution then to live next 30 years with "Hollywood Barbie Starf*cker" girl ;-)

Life isn’t only economy (social or financial, it doesn’t matter).

I’m sorry gentlemen I can’t write more. I’ll check what you answered next week. It’s quite late in EE.

Ezinho

04-25-07, 04:06

Good evening, Gentlemen. It's been about a month now that I've been back in the U.S. from South America, and I wanted to share with other posters on here a few things I've noticed about AWs. Please tell me if I'm correct, or I'm just going crazy and seeing things from the decrease in sexual activity that is affecting me now that I'm back in Sex Prison:

1. Is it just me, or has anyone else here seen these fat AWs that have somehow snagged good looking, handsome dudes?? Have you guys seen this, I'm talking about the 200+ pound AW wearing bumble-bee glasses going out with a slim, fit AM. Is this some new fad that happened while I was out of the country? Maybe this is the "In" thing to do now, and no one told me (as usual!). The men usually seem like the effeminate types, so maybe it is some sort of dominant/submissive relationship. Or maybe he is gay and just going shopping with his best friend? Help me out here, guys.

2. Has anyone here noticed an increase in AW dating FOREIGN men?? Now, I live in California, so I am specifically talking about the AW that are dating Mexican men. Most of the AW that I see with Hispanic guys are the worst of the worst. I mean we're talking obese, 300+ lbs. Mostly I have seen this combination at the local shopping mall. It seems like the AW is usually bigger than the hispanic guy, and in some instances, seems to be the one "in charge" of the relationship. In a few instances, these poor bastards actually knocked up these women and have kids with them now! Has anyone else seen this? Are these guys just doing it to get the citizenship (that HAS to be it!) or maybe they have a thing for morbidly-obese gringas? And these are the women that won't let *US* bring back women from other countries??? This one really makes me scratch my head.

3. For the fatties that don't have boyfriends: are they now going out on dates....with their girlfriends? Here is the scenario: I was at one of these new restaurants a couple weeks ago in the suburbs. Maybe you know the setup: one half of the place is like a family restaurant, and the other half is a full blown sports bar (this is what happens when Yuppies design restaurants in the 'burbs!). Anyways, I'm sitting at the bar with my beer, watching a Giants game. During the commercial, I look around the other part of the restaurant and notice something interesting. Of course, I see some tables with the typical middle-aged man with his fat AW wife, and his three, bratty, snot nosed kids eating dinner.

*Let me pause this story for a minute and just add one thing, in reference to a prior post made on here: as a single man, there is no way in HELL I am going to die before all these poor, married bastards. No way in hell.*

Ok, back to the story. So, in addition to the family types eating there, I noticed another group of individuals. At at least a few different tables there were groups of young AW's (I would say age 21-25, maybe?) three to four to a table, dressed up like they were out on a date. They were larger girls, but not any bigger than the fatties I was speaking of in bullet number one. Some of them would actually be attractive if they lost 50 pounds. At each table, they had ordered multiple pitchers of beers, and plate after plate of appetizers. As a side note, you should have seen this one girl eat this entire plate of potato skins! It was like watching a deadly car crash; you know you shouldn't look, but you have to!

I didn't see any men with them, but they were all dressed up like they were out on a date. In addition, these types of restaurants aren't really the kinds of places you go to meet people, so I assumed that their boyfriends were in the bathroom or something. I must say I've never heard of a bunch of dudes going to the bathroom together but, hey, this is California.

Fifteen minutes passed and all these girls were still sitting by themselves. Mostly just stuffing their faces with buffalo wings or nachos, but they seemed to be having a good time; they actually seemed to be enjoying themselves. I can't say I've ever seen anything like this before, has anyone else witnessed this? Are some AWs just giving up on men and turning to appetizers and beer to "fill" them (pun intended). Or maybe it was lesbo night at this particular establishment?

I feel like a stranger in my own country!

Polvo

04-25-07, 04:25

.....Please tell me if I'm correct, or I'm just going crazy and seeing things from the decrease in sexual activity that is affecting me now that I'm back in Sex Prison:Ezinho - I laughed my ass off when I read this. I am always going back and forth to sex prison and I feel as if I have suddenly arrived in a sexual and cultural desert!!

.....1. Is it just me, or has anyone else here seen these fat AWs that have somehow snagged good looking, handsome dudes?? Have you guys seen this, I'm talking about the 200+ pound AW wearing bumble-bee glasses going out with a slim, fit AM. .....They probably did not start out fat. They ended up that way by gorging on dressed salads, eating steaks and baked potatoe plates that would feed an Ethiopian family for a week - oh, and having a diet coke. I have a friend who married a model from the Ford agency. Smoking, smoking hot (and I am fussy). Now she is a 300lb wonder and if she bends over you can park your bicycle wheel in her ass.

.....2. Has anyone here noticed an increase in AW dating FOREIGN men?? .....I mean we're talking obese, 300+ lbs. ....It seems like the AW is usually bigger than the hispanic guy, .....or maybe they have a thing for morbidly-obese gringas?Some darker complexioned gentlemen like girls with "back". Many Latin American men mistake buttocks like sandbags for Brazilian Bunda. Mind it has its uses. You can block open a door or block out the sun!!

.....3. For the fatties that don't have boyfriends: are they now going out on dates....with their girlfriends? Yes. It is called Girls Night Out (GNO)! Usually a "formal" night every single fucking week. They dress up and play sophisticate. While chopping up their food into little itty, bitty, pieces and then using just a fork to shovel it into their gaping maw. Jesus.

.....*Let me pause this story for a minute and just add one thing, in reference to a prior post made on here: as a single man, there is no way in HELL I am going to die before all these poor, married bastards. No way in hell.*I arranged a place in hell for Jelly with Him. I also got him possible absolution but he chose to stay in a warmer place! You may die before these people if you stand between the salad bar and the fatties. Do you want me to make arrangements for you?

.....So, in addition to the family types eating there, I noticed another group of individuals. At at least a few different tables there were groups of young AW's (I would say age 21-25, maybe?) three to four to a table, dressed up like they were out on a date. They were larger girls, but not any bigger than the fatties I was speaking of in bullet number one. Some of them would actually be attractive if they lost 50 pounds.Girls Night Out. I wonder if they get wet when they have their manicure before they go out???

I feel like a stranger in my own country, help!
You are.

Suerte!

Polvo

DJ FourMoney

04-25-07, 13:19

American women with social problems -

The accuser - A woman with a checked history claims Chris Rock fathered her child.

The accused - Actor/Comedian Chris Rock

And I quote -

Chris Rock is under fire from a woman who claims he's her 13-year-old baby's daddy, but cops say the woman behind the allegations has been full of s**t for years.

TMZ has learned that 36-year-old Kali Bowyer, who Rock never denied having a fling with several years before he met wife Malaak, has an extensive criminal past riddled with numerous bizarre police encounters, and a penchant for telling wild stories. According to a thick stack of government documents obtained by TMZ, Bowyer was convicted of DUI in Georgia, charged with theft by deception last summer, and is facing charges of running an elaborate cell phone scam.

And it doesn't end there! In the last two years, more than ten incident reports detail some truly strange encounters with police, including one in which cops say she claimed to have been held at gunpoint and forced to "ingest some white powder," a tale which her own son contradicted under questioning. Bad checks, domestic disturbances, and several veracity-questionable incidents left police scratching their heads.

Bowyer first popped up ten years ago when the boy in question was 3-years-old, claiming that Rock was the dad, but then, we're told, she disappeared after Rock agreed to a DNA test. Though she claims that the comedian's the dad, Bowyer oddly didn't list Rock on the birth certificate.

Yesterday, Rock indicated that he would still take a DNA test to determine paternity, even offering to help support the child if he is, in fact, the dad.

A proven liar and wild story teller, that qualifies as a SOCIAL PROBLEM.

You want another example?

Women who have several children from several different fathers and they aren't prostitutes. Making Father's Day and "Career Day" in 2nd grade very confusing for those children...

A sign of opening our legs in hoping said man will stay with you. When that fails, you're left with the child and he's no where to be found for responsibility.

A proven Baby Factory and somebody who's sexually irresponsible, that qualifies as a SOCIAL PROBLEM.

Speaking of children -

Hooking up with a single mother complicates things to no end. Theres an overabundance of single mothers in the US. I guess that means their alot of shady Men in the US as well. But both self-control and responsibly go both ways.

Why are these women letting some men run up in them without any form of birth control???

That's a question that if asked is often returned with a hateful stare.

Like: "How dare you ask me such a question!" :mad

Umm if you want me involved with you, I want to know what kind of decision making produces a child and a father you have to chase with the help of tax payer's money to find and make pay for his responsibilities.

If you make such decisions in the heat of passion, Uh what else are you capable of in the "heat of passion"; which has me wondering to no end. Either that or you take child bearing LIGHTLY. After going through natural child birth, I can say without a doubt that these woman don't take child bearing LIGHTLY anymore....

As a woman Mmbmmb, this might bother you, but woman like these examples are DAMAGED GOODS.

I am single and childless, I would love to be a father someday, I do have a CHOICE in that I would like for both myself and my wife to be FIRST TIME PARENTS.

Is that horrible? I didn't think it was.

I'm not quite sure I'm ready to take on the responsibly of being a husband and father as soon as I get deeply involved with a single mother. That's a bit too much too soon and as long as I have control over that decision, I will not take it lightly.

As for my looks -

I'm 6'0, Brown Hair (shaved head), Brown Eyes, 190lbs, Slim, Single Black Male

As one Ukrainian woman told me on Monday - "Your Handsome!"

As a German lady always texts me with the opening line of "Hi Handsome!"

Not to toot my own horn, but I do a fair amount of damage if given the chance...

Oh yeah -

By Traditional I mean -

A woman wants to be successful at home and at work.

She wants it all! I would love to give it too her... I feel 90% of the AW don't deserve such a shot.

I should mention that any of my European propects are several notches better looking than any of the American women that would "let me" date them in the last several years.

As Jelly Donut said and I agree, I'm not wasting any more money in the American Dating Sweepstakes where you chances of being successful are only 1 in 5 million if your not Brad Pitt, Tyrese or Freddie Prince Jr.

I am going where I am wanted, that is Europe, they want me, they always ask WHEN AM I COMING OVER... I don't need any more incentive than that!

Polvo,

What if I’m fat, ugly and bald. Do you still want to get your leg over someone who Greenpeace confuses with a whale? ;-) Be careful what you ask for ;-)

Gentlemen, I had to write something because I can’t believe in what you wrote.

Money,money,money. I understand they’re important but if it’s only about money what am I doing here? Hmm, sometimes I think that I just liked you gentlemen :-) because even if in reality you can be bald, fat and ugly, you showed me your second, nicer face on the forum. And gentlemen, I really would like a girl to grab you and to harass sexually so much that you wouldn’t have strenght to discuss with me anymore ;-)

And because I can’t believe that such people as you, who are intelligent and charming, are still full of bitterness. So I decided to write the second part of my golden thoughts ;-)

Ok gentlemen. I guess that at the beginning we have to fix one thing. Even if it’s the forum about “P4P” I understand we talk about true love and true feelings, not about how much you have to pay for love. There are another threads for that. Otherwise you wouldn’t complain so much that you can’t meet the woman of your life.

So, you claim that women outside US are subservient (because they’re poor, yes?), or rather they have to be if they don’t want to be single. Maybe it’s partly truth.
But no offence, with such attitude, soon you will have to look for your ideal princess on Mars. Nothing against green beauties but you have to remember that the fly tickets are expensive in this case :-)

Do you really think that my only one ambition is to find a stupid American and to use him for his money? Gentlemen, believe me, I wouldn’t waste my life for it because it’s too short.

I remind myself a document about Russian brides and after I watched it I thought: “ Jesus Christ, what happened to Russia if these poor girls have to marry a guy who doesn’t even understand them?” Don’t tell me it’s a true love when the only one thing between them is sex. I understand that she wants better life for herself and her children but what about this guy? What is he looking for? And don’t use “creative linguistics”. We can name it “a hope for happiness with Russian woman” but in reality it’s a form of prostitution (very sad form). She doesn’t get money but a visa to US (it’s some kind of benefit). He gets free cleaning lady, cook and (forgive me my language) free pussy, at least to the moment she will learn English. I don’t want to judge it. If they are happy, it’s their own business but why after he complains that she’s a b**ch and wants a divorce?

Here I’d like to ask you what true love means to you? I hope it’s not only sex or subservient attitude and you don’t look only for it.

Gentlemen, besides I have impression that you think they sell happiness in a store at the corner. And what’s the most funny that they even will give you a guarantee for it :-) I mean you think that if you get a wife for Europe ,SA, or Asia she has to be wonderful, to be a good cook and the hot lover. Of course she can be a wonderful girl but the nationality has nothing to do with it.

DJ FourMoney:
In other words, YOUR social worth is measured not so much by how you look, where you work, what car you drive or where you live, its the content of your personalty and your soul that's more important to these woman, as many of them are very traditional when it comes to families

And what does it mean “traditional”? Yes, you’re right that personality and soul is the most important but what it has to do with the “traditional” family?

And by the way, I admire to cook because nothing tastes so good as a whipped cream with strawberries, made by myself :-), when I feed them my favorite grizzly ;-) Is it traditional? maybe it’s not original but traditional ;-)?

So, DJ FourMoney, let’s go to the part of your post where you wrote about less valuable girls, these ones who are with social problems and children. I’m afraid to ask but what kind of social problems you think about? I hope it’s not something like: ”I’m illegal immigrant, please good mister, take care of me.” ;-) In this case I agree she would do everything for you and she won’t care if she’s valuable or not.

And do you think that if she really loves you the children are problem? I don’t want to be an authority here, I don’t have children. For sure children are expensive, emotionally and financially, but I guess we talk about a situation when you both want to create a normal family, not about situation when you’re an ATM (then it’s love for dollars not you). So if you had a child would you feel less valuable only because you want to love someone again? But maybe single fathers are also passé on the US dating scene? Does it mean that even if they have a beautiful soul any women won’t look at them because they have children? I don’t believe in it.

I wonder where you look for your perfect woman if you have such experiences. And please, don’t think I’m malicious.

And I would forget about the people with physical problems. Do they also have to show lower expectations (= it means to agree for dating with people who have garbage in their heads ???) to find love? And what if, for example, you have burnt skin on your face? Would you be another person inside or the same DJ FourMoney? So the only one thing which left is to shoot oneself because now you won’t find any valuable girl? Maybe it’s better solution then to live next 30 years with "Hollywood Barbie Starf*cker" girl ;-)

Life isn’t only economy (social or financial, it doesn’t matter).

I’m sorry gentlemen I can’t write more. I’ll check what you answered next week. It’s quite late in EE.

Jelly Donut

04-25-07, 14:48

ezinho -
Funny stuff. I was on a flight with an older AW and a younger dude from the islands. I was thinking she cut herself a pretty good deal. It would be excellent if the first test case against those visa restrictions is brought by an AW.

polvo -
re:hell. I've been meaning to ask if my years here in the USA count as "time served"?

mmbmmb -
When a guy talks about "my wife" he is expressing ownership. Without going too deep into the atavistic details of it, I can tell you - whatever language, whatever words, are used to express "true love" and "true feelings" at the wedding - the guy is, in large part, feeling like a caveman. "This is my woman. Don't take another step toward her or I will club you over the head. We're going back to the cave now. Thanks for the gifts."

I know that women go through something like this - I remember talking with an ex girlfriend about feelings after having had an excellent experience with her where I felt completely dominant. I think I had taken her doggy style in the kitchen or something like that. Afterward we had a conversation where she was explaining how powerful the experience made her feel - that she felt a vast amount of power in that situation.

This was something I found a little hard to believe - after all I was the guy who ripped off her clothes, I was the guy who made it happen - until I started reading about how the g*ddamn plants have been using me for years. Stupid little plants, using attractive tricks, to accomplish biological ends.

At any rate, you can flavor the arrangements between men and women up however you please, but I think it boils down to some fairly simple stuff.

Polvo

04-25-07, 14:57

Polvo, What if I’m fat, ugly and bald. Do you still want to get your leg over someone who Greenpeace confuses with a whale? ;-) Be careful what you ask for ;-) It's your mind, really!!

So, you claim that women outside US are subservient (because they’re poor, yes?), or rather they have to be if they don’t want to be single. Maybe it’s partly truth.
I wrote the word subservient. That was a poor choice of words and a badly formed thought. I have now edited my original. It now reads: "So, as you go up the GDP scale the women have more money (without the aid of the court system yet) so they now have the gold as well! We end up with an problem. The result is that they then have an "elevated" sense of the worth of their goods, that is beyond what the market will now pay. Impasse. This is amply demonstrated in the way they "sell" their wares; a different , complex and completely obnoxious manner to us simple folk (men) who want a straightforward transaction. "

Possibly still ill formed but getting closer....

Polvo

Polvo

04-25-07, 15:01

[re:hell. I've been meaning to ask if my years here in the USA count as "time served"?

I communed with Dante. He told me it is Purgatory. Sorry.

Polvo

Yogin

04-25-07, 17:14

Thanks guys for making me laugh. The Pope just proclaimed limbo to not exist. Perhaps purgatory is next, hahaha.

I would be thrilled to see sex tourists prosecuted by US laws to be the AW's who go to the islands.

Mmbmmb: yes, marriage is in fact a form of prostitution, putting it in a cynical realistic manner. I don't want subservience. I just want honesty. AW aren't content with equality, much less honesty. They want to totally run the show, and in fact do.
Yes, I believe in love.
I'm not anti-kid. I might have them some day. But I won't support or put up with someone else's kid.
Thank you for your input. Your perspective and thoughts add a valuable dimension to the discussion. Please keep writing.

DJ: I've just as much contempt for a guy who has multiple children by several girls. If they can't be responsible (and that includes making sound choices about whom to boink) they should keep their pants on.

Ezinho: Not sure what you mean by "Foreign" guys in the US liking fat women. Am sure many of these Mexican-American guys have been here for three generations. African-Am guys also like them big. I don't know, perhaps there's a parallel to liking huge oversized clothes & cars: a symbol of being significant, an illusion of being important for the have-nots of lower social status.
As for the poor bastards who are slender & handsome with the 300 lb piggies: mommy complex or some other mental disorder, simply desparate, too ignorant of the wealth of foreign opportunities? Take your pick.

Rock Dog

04-26-07, 01:43

Maybe its time we quit bashing and start actually doing something about it.

Personally, I DID do something about it. As many long-time ISG members know, I passed over the local girls where I live (Canada) and searched abroad. Actually found someone and brought her back as my wife.

She's very attractive, 15 years younger, nice body, good personality and very dependable. No way I could have found a woman with all of those qualities here. Are they all like her? No, there's no way..... I definitely got lucky. But that's not the point. The point is, I did as you suggested, I went out there and did something about it.

Rock

Rubber Nursey

04-26-07, 03:22

DJ, that stereotypical description of single mums was just plain cruel. :( I, for one, am sick of single mums being painted as somehow more 'sexually irresponsible' than the fathers who had sex, made a baby and (for whatever reason) are no longer involved. Why are the men not deemed irresponsible as well? If anything, women who make mistakes and then rise to the challenge and deal with the consequences (ie have the baby and bring it up themselves) are a whole lot more responsible than those men who knock someone up and then do a runner. If men don't want to become a father, they should insist on using a condom! Men are not just some hapless bystander in all this.

There's also the fact that MANY single mothers were not single women who had casual sex and ended up pregnant. More often than not, we were married or in long-term relationships and the relationship broke down, leaving us to raise the children alone. (Like in my own case). Making the decision to have a baby within a relationship that you believe will be long-lasting, is not sexually irresponsible behaviour. And for the record, it's hardly fair that when the relationship breaks down, the man gets to go back out into the dating scene and start again as a single man, while his ex-wife becomes 'damaged goods' with too much baggage to attract anything more substantial than the occasional quick shag.

I am also tired of the 'multiple kids by multiple fathers' line being used against us, to make us sound like sl*ts. My own two children are the product of two separate long-term relationships, a number of years apart. Yes, that probably suggests I'm not a terribly good judge of men, but I don't believe it should automatically qualify me as a sl*t, either. My current partner is also a single father, with three children by two different mothers. Funny thing is, nobody ever sees him as sexually irresponsible. Most feel sorry for him and many actually say they admire him for bringing up a child by himself. Hmmm...

You have every right to choose not to be become an 'instant father', DJ. It's a difficult situation to deal with (and I know, 'coz I recently became an 'instant mother' to my partner's children!) and if it's not something you want in your life, then I have absolutely no issue with you actively avoiding it. But you shouldn't slag off single mums as being 'damaged goods' and 'social problems' (in capital letters, no less) just because it's not a choice that you would make. Plenty of couples make it work.

DJ FourMoney

04-26-07, 08:20

Personally, I DID do something about it. As many long-time ISG members know, I passed over the local girls where I live (Canada) and searched abroad. Actually found someone and brought her back as my wife.

She's very attractive, 15 years younger, nice body, good personality and very dependable. No way I could have found a woman with all of those qualities here. Are they all like her? No, there's no way..... I definitely got lucky. But that's not the point. The point is, I did as you suggested, I went out there and did something about it.

Rock

I'm right behind you!

I have since gained a "wingman" so I can prospect and mine the streets, nightclubs, shopping center, etc

The woman I know with children at 34 and 28 respectively both from what's considered Western Europe.

The woman I know form Eastern Europe, specifically Ukraine are childless at 24 and 25 respectively

That would be 11 and 12 years my junior - I didn't think it was possible!

I guess they aren't joking then they said EE women want to settle down at an early age, yet most of the local men don't feel the same way. Well I have no problem making a "wifey" out of somebody that wants to be.

AW at that age only want to settled down so they can find some poor bonehead to help her pay her bills and end the pain of being uses as free sexual provider to single men looking for easy targets.

I am REALLY looking forward to my trip!

DJ FourMoney

04-26-07, 09:44

Stereotyping or not, I have met/dated women who were not involved in long term relationships. How could that be when they are only 19??? In one case of a young lady in Colo, she was a mother 3 times before even hitting 22.

How about the girl I knew that was pregnant again 4 weeks after giving birth to child number 1???

I fully agree that men are just as responsible, its a two-way street. I say woman have a larger share in that, because they are the ones that end up with a surprise in 9 months or have to go through the painful process of having an abortion, not men.

That's when women should say NO, we're not fuckin tonight without a condom!

Enough of them DON'T SAY THAT, cause woman are passionate creatures; when the juices are flowing I know its hard to say NO all of a sudden because there's no condom to be found. But that also goes to the typical American attitude that nothing is taken seriously until its too late.

I wasn't saying all single mothers are damaged goods, I said those with multiple children from multiple fathers are damaged goods.

C'mon Nursery, it takes a special man to take on a woman with 5-6 kids... I know 2 woman in such a situation, from long term failed relationships. They get a pass, but more than 2 kids is asking too much, at least from me.

I have been responsible from day one, I am childless because I have held up my end of the bargain by not letting my little head do the thinking for the big one.

I really don't have a problem with single mothers...

DJ, that stereotypical description of single mums was just plain cruel. :( I, for one, am sick of single mums being painted as somehow more 'sexually irresponsible' than the fathers who had sex, made a baby and (for whatever reason) are no longer involved. Why are the men not deemed irresponsible as well? If anything, women who make mistakes and then rise to the challenge and deal with the consequences (ie have the baby and bring it up themselves) are a whole lot more responsible than those men who knock someone up and then do a runner. If men don't want to become a father, they should insist on using a condom! Men are not just some hapless bystander in all this.

There's also the fact that MANY single mothers were not single women who had casual sex and ended up pregnant. More often than not, we were married or in long-term relationships and the relationship broke down, leaving us to raise the children alone. (Like in my own case). Making the decision to have a baby within a relationship that you believe will be long-lasting, is not sexually irresponsible behaviour. And for the record, it's hardly fair that when the relationship breaks down, the man gets to go back out into the dating scene and start again as a single man, while his ex-wife becomes 'damaged goods' with too much baggage to attract anything more substantial than the occasional quick shag.

I am also tired of the 'multiple kids by multiple fathers' line being used against us, to make us sound like sl*ts. My own two children are the product of two separate long-term relationships, a number of years apart. Yes, that probably suggests I'm not a terribly good judge of men, but I don't believe it should automatically qualify me as a sl*t, either. My current partner is also a single father, with three children by two different mothers. Funny thing is, nobody ever sees him as sexually irresponsible. Most feel sorry for him and many actually say they admire him for bringing up a child by himself. Hmmm...

You have every right to choose not to be become an 'instant father', DJ. It's a difficult situation to deal with (and I know, 'coz I recently became an 'instant mother' to my partner's children!) and if it's not something you want in your life, then I have absolutely no issue with you actively avoiding it. But you shouldn't slag off single mums as being 'damaged goods' and 'social problems' (in capital letters, no less) just because it's not a choice that you would make. Plenty of couples make it work.

Mmbmmb

04-26-07, 23:17

Dj FourMoney,

Ok, irresponsible people who produce children without any sign of thinking are social problem and everyone agrees that it doesn’t matter if it’s a woman or a man. But as Rubber Nursey wrote, people have different situations in life and what you write about isn’t a problem of children but irresponsibility and immaturity. You only gave the "examples" of people who have children. I guess that’s why I misunderstood you. I’m glad that you don't have a problem with single mothers:.) And about being "instant father". As I wrote before life is ironical and someone else’s child can love you more then its biological father. It’s not the sperm and DNA what makes you the real parent. It is important if it’s about genetic diseases etc but it can’t replace the safety, trust, care or simply love which you give the child. And no, it’s not horrible if you want you and your wife to be the first time parents. Being "instant father", quoting RN, "it's a difficult situation to deal with". I understand it, but on the other hand, tell me what kind of love between two people is simple? :.)

By Traditional I mean. A woman wants to be successful at home and at work. And what does it men "successful"? You know, people can understand a success in different ways. So I ask you for a few more details.

And one more thing, you wrote that you’re "6'0, Brown Hair (shaved head), Brown Eyes, 190lbs, Slim, Single Black Male" and Ukrainian girls say you’re handsome. Hmmm, DJ FourMoney you look like Tyrese:.) so please don’t write that your chances of being successful are like 1 in 5 million;.)

Jelly Donut,

When I read about you experiences I see that Polvo isn’t the only one lion on this forum;.) But seriously, I didn’t read "The Botany of Desire" but it’s interesting what place in his theory Mr. Pollan intended for men and what’s their biological destiny. Will you tell me?

I started reading about how the g*ddamn plants have been using me for years. Stupid little plants, using attractive tricks, to accomplish biological endsWhen in my first post I wrote the theory about people and plants I didn’t think that you would take it so seriously;.)

You see, even if I like this theory I think that we’re something more then animals and plants. In XVII century Rene Descartes described animals as machines (only very complicated) and he claimed that only people have soul because the features of soul are thinking or awareness. Later, scientists, as features which distinguish people and animals, added: abstract thinking, ability of using languages and self-knowledge. Some of them claim also that it’s a society (other people) what gives peculiar character of human nature.

Of course you can say that researches on apes, dolphins etc show us another facts, which weren’t accessible for Descartes, but I guess we still know too little about their behavior and mind. Especially if we want to compare them to human beings. And I write about it all because I want to draw your attention to the features of "soul". I want to say that people can have "higher feelings" ( inaccessible for animals and plants) what lets them to sacrifice themselves, to suffer, to love, to cry, to feel compassion etc I realize that "atavistic details" also play a role in human behavior but for me it isn’t the most important role.

I understand that your ex-girlfriend (s? ) wanted to get pregnant with you (biological ends, yes? ) and to keep you as "a provider of food":.). That’s why she claimed she had the power. She simply wanted you to feel as a real man and to stay with her as "a good provider". Sorry that it’s so long but I don’t know if I understand you. Write if I miss something.

It’s an interesting theory but, Jelly Donut, maybe she just didn’t know how to tell you that the sex was great and that she wants to repeat it;.) So she told you "how powerful the experience made her feel". Maybe you just made her day;.) and she meant" Sweetheart, you gave me power (energy? ;.)) for the rest of the week". But ok, I don’t want you to think that I am, how they call it in my country, a malicious bonus to a pussy. Forgive me my language again.

So let’s think over the "the arrangements between men and women" which, for you, "boil down to some fairly simple stuff".

Jelly Donut, the abstract thinking lets us to predict what can happen in the future. If your relationship bases only on sex you haven’t to be genius to know that in a few weeks the ideal women will stop to be so ideal. We don’t live in the Stone Age. We need "true love" and "true feelings" if we don’t want to change a cave too fast. But maybe I missed something again. Remember that English isn’t my native language:.)

I promise that writing the next part of my golden thoughts;.) I’ll comment this nonsense "yes, marriage is in fact a form of prostitution, putting it in a cynical realistic manner" (I’m sure that Rock Dog doesn’t feel like a prostitute, am I right? ;.)) and other things. Yogin, I can’t believe you wrote it.

DJ FourMoney

04-27-07, 12:18

If I looked like Tyrese I wouldn't have to deal with the shenanigans I have to put up with. I do have a "fair amount" of sucess, when I desire to look for it. However my desire to look wanes. Only women well on the otherside of 30 are interested in me, you know "Empty Nest" syndrome.

Empty Nest meaning, their kids are gone, now its about ME. Me includes banging younger men (when available) because men my own age (meaning her) can't handle me sexually (without some assistance from "The Blue Pill", "The Weekender" or "The Purple Pill"). Some guys are happy to waste sprem into a "bottomless pit" (reproductive organs have been removed) and figure that hey "pussy is pussy". I have never felt that way, sex has value to me, I don't wanna just bang for the sake of doing so.

In some respects I hate being 36, because it puts me into that no man's land of reproduction. In America, women over 32 aren't terribly "thrilled" about having kids, especially if they have one or two already.

Where the F' does that leave me?

Women under 30 barely want anything to do with me because I have no "added value" or so they think. I live at home, my mother is present at home, so that makes me a "loser". While my friend gets a "pass" for staying at home because that's not UNSUAL in Asian familes. My Latino friends get the same "Get Out Of Jail Free" card as well.

Where the F' does that leave me?

In the US, the BOTTOM 70%!

BBW's, Single Mothers with 2 or more children (and not willing to have more), Those missing bodyparts, that can't walk, can't hear, can't see (Helen Keller???) - You get the idea...

That has me going overseas because -

A) I prefer Causasian Women
B) None of the Single Mothers I have talked too, past or present have not ruled out having another child, even if they have 2-3 already
C) Most EE girls under 28 are single and childless and don't mind the 11-12 year age difference
D) All the woman I know over there are under 150lbs...

I cannot find those woman in California, in Neveda, Washington or Arizona. That rules out any local talent. Looking further out is OUT OF THE QUESTION.

90% don't want to relocate, especially if they have children because the father has vistiation rights. So I should seek out those with absent fathers then??

I don't wanna move to any other of the lower 48 because they don't interest me in the least bit. And for sure not to "seek" a love interest, that's insane.

For one thing black men are stereotyped and pigoned holed.

If your not Thugged Out, Can't Dance or Don't Listen to Black Music your Blackness is called into question. Lucky for me, my Screen name gives you an idea into what I enjoy doing with music so that's never called into question. I can dance, but those under 28 generally want "Tyrese", "2Pac or "The Game" look-a-likes because they are "thugged" out. I will never be a Thug, nor do I wanna be and nor do I wanna continue to wait for American women to be BURNED by those type of men, left holding the baby, hit their early 30's and figure out its NOW okay to seek that "nice guy".

I will not lower my standards, which would mean "settling" I rather remain single, but that's foolish when I can go where I am wanted by the kind of woman I want.

In terms of being sucessful, for me its simple.

When I talk about relationships, money is never a factor nor a measure of sucesss. We will be fine finanically, it doesn't worry me.

A woman that wants just as much sucess in her home life as she does in her job, if she chooses to have dual careers. Being a homemaker is a full time job, responsiblies should be SHARED. I want it to run smoothly like a well-oiled machine.

Communication is KEY to making that happen.

I don't minse words, why should I? This is a REAL TALK forum, so I choose to keep it REAL.

Oh one other thing -

When I said 1 in 5 Million I meant in the US and its true and I didn't apply it myself, because my "market" is somewhat "limited", I have narrowed it down on purpose, because that's what I want. So my chances in the US are even higher, like 1 in 10 Million.

Go back a few pages and look at my post from last year, I've had strangers argue with me about living at home, when they DID SO THEMSELVES and that's what men have to deal with in America, why would I lie about something like that????

Jelly Donut

04-27-07, 14:54

"Botany of Desire". Let's see. The idea is that, say, if you were a gardener you would think that the choices you made about which plants to grow, care for and harvest are entirely yours. Human beings are the subjects working the plants, which are passive objects.

Pollan flips that around. He points to bumblebees. If you could ask a bumblebee, who makes things happen in the world?, the bumblebee would probably tell you he is the subject and flowers are the object. But from a human perspective, it's not so clear that the flower is the object. You could say the flower is just manipulating the bee in order to move pollen around. The relationship is not a dominant subject to a passive object. It's a coevolutionary relationship where different things are being traded and different interests are being advanced - both for the bee and the flower. The flower has power.

Pollan goes on to describe various relationships between humans and some plants - the apple., the tulip, marijuana, and the potato. The decisions a gardener makes may not be entirely his own. For me it's interesting, I like applying it as one metaphor for relationships between men and women.

On this board, and certainly in Yogin's discussion group, a lot of people have pointed to men as dominant subjects and women as passive objects; that the history of men and women is a history of oppressive dominant subjects over passive objects. That's good as far as it goes. It's the perspective of economists, Marxist historians and, I think, most men ride that assumption as well. Guys like to think of themselves as the dominant subject. But I think taking a biological view of things makes the conversation more interesting.

Anyway, it's a good read. I can't really do it justice. Just PM your address and I'll have Polvo drop off my copy.

"If your relationship bases only on sex you haven’t to be genius to know that in a few weeks the ideal women will stop to be so ideal". Excellent. My relationships based on sex these days generally don't last that long at all and, consequently, I can walk through the world thinking it is filled with ideal women.

Mmbmmb

04-27-07, 17:18

"If your relationship bases only on sex you haven’t to be genius to know that in a few weeks the ideal women will stop to be so ideal". Excellent. My relationships based on sex these days generally don't last that long at all and, consequently, I can walk through the world thinking it is filled with ideal women.It’s only a pity that your thinking about world filled with ideal women is an illusion. But it doesn’t change the fact that I admire your optimism ;-)

Ok, now “Botany of Desire” is more clear for me but I don’t think we can say here that “the flower has power”. Rather it’s as powerful as bumblebee. You give something to a woman and she gives something to you. You both need each other and you both have benefits. This rule (giving/getting) you can apply to other relationships eg mother-child, employee-employer etc. So such words as manipulation or “g*ddamn plants have been using me for years. Stupid little plants, using attractive tricks, to accomplish biological ends” aren’t proper.

And if it’s about the history of relationships between men and women. It’s really complicated and describing “men as dominant subjects and women as passive objects” you talk only about a part of this history. But it’s a subject for another thread.

“Guys like to think of themselves as the dominant subject”.

And I like to believe that sweets don’t fatten and the others that Elvis is still alive but life rectifies our beliefs. It’s nothing new. I think that some things seem obvious and you haven’t to read “wise books” to know them. JD, sorry if sometimes

I’m “brutal”. It doesn’t mean that I want to be malicious.

DJ FourMoney, I’m sorry but I have to answer you later. I’m going to a party tonight and I have no time to write more.

Furiouz

04-27-07, 19:03

Man, reading your postings like reading the writings of a twin. Same height, same weight, same tribe, same crap to deal with in California.

On thugs: my roomate is the 210lb Justin Timberlake from Oakland. East Oakland, straight thugged out. He gets so many girls who want to "tame" him or whatever. I just sit back and laugh to myself. These girls are falling in love, calling him on the phone while another girl is on his lap. It makes me laugh, because you KNOW in 5 years the girls are going to be jaded and bitter and talking about jerks.
I don't hate, though. I just enjoy the show.
INteresting thing of note. I made a Myspace account and tried to meet some girls in my area. Only 2 expressed any interest, and they never write more than 4 words total. I tried contacting girls from Poland, I get 15 girls who are interested and love to chat back and forth.

Hmmm...

Rock Dog

04-28-07, 04:15

RN,
You're 100% right about the condom thing. Even if it wasn't to prevent unwanted pregnancies, Hep C and HIV alone are good enough reasons to ALWAYS wear one...... and not just for the first 4 or 5 weeks either.

Furiouz,
Your "thug friend" may be getting the play right now.... but wait til he gets a bit older. In my experience, older thugz tend to be lonely thugz..... unless they're willing to settle for some nasty lookin ho's.

DJ,
The grass IS greener on the other side of the fence.... but that isn't saying much when you consider how much it sucks here. I've said it a zillion times before but it's wort repeating. Women are still women no matter where they're from. Sometimes settling isn't such a bad option.

Rock sez, if you gotta get married, marry one you can get along with. She doesn't have to be a hottie..... and even if she IS, looks don't last forever. If you NEED that physical attraction, there's always ways to get a little on the side. Know what I mean?

Rock

DJ FourMoney

04-28-07, 07:20

Furiouz -

I feel you mayne, just hang in there, get your butt to Europe and you won't be sorry.

Haven't talked to any Polish girls yet, but my boy in NY has a Polish girlfriend, she's only been here for about a year and when all her friends went back to Poland, she stayed to be with HIM.

She likes cars, he's a car guy. She's sweet, she 100% supportive. She has DD boobs, he's a boob man.

He wanted a stunner, that she is.

Perfection? Close enough if you ask me...

In Germany you'll have to go around with a sign that says "Not In the Military" as the women are very JADED by our Uniformed men. Understandable , but you can still have success, trust me.

I might have to try the My Space to Poland route... I got some Ukrainian women on the docket, so that might not be necessary.

Rock Dog -

Looks are not everything, the only thing? (I kid!) I don't need a "stunner", a high "7" is good enough. If I can get an "8" that's just extra mustard. The Momma I know in Germany is around 115lbs and 5'4 tall (a solid 7), we get along great, she believes in a brother, that's all great. I would be happy if this is what I ended up with trust me.

I just feel, that I might be slightly happier with somebody a bit younger and starting off fresh as a family. Not to mention a step or too above the "Girl Next Door" type, which the Momma is. Also Momma is a bit submissive and I want a girl that is a bit more independent.

That's splitting hairs, but you know this is my life we're talking about and I want to be 100% happy with my choice, not 90%, that isn't good enough.

That nagging feeling shouldn't be there.... Its kinda like my car, I love it, Im happy about it, its much faster than it was. I'm not doing back flips, but I'm over the moon happy otherwise, I just keep it internal. That's what I believe will happen when everything comes together. Inside I'll be like "Flipper" the dolphin, on the outside I'll be calm, cool and collected.

I think the word is CONTENT

Mmbmmb

04-28-07, 13:00

Mmbmmb: yes, marriage is in fact a form of prostitution, putting it in a cynical realistic manner.And what is it prostitution Yogin? It seems quite simple question, doesn’t it?

I can help you and I give you a definition from a dictionary: “the act or practice of engaging in promiscuous sexual relations especially for money”.

We all know that a prostitute (a man or a woman) gets different benefits for his/her services. It can be money but also others goods like expensive perfume, clothes, food etc. When he/she lets you to make love with him/her and gives you what you call “GFE” he/she makes it for money (benefits). Here I’d like to ask: why do you want GFE?

Are you looking for love, warmth, tenderness?

This is the difference between marriage and prostitution. In marriage, at least in theory, you get it for free because your wife/husband has “true feelings” for you, and ONLY for you. A prostitute can like you, be nice and plays your boyfriend / girlfriend but for the next client he/she behaves in the same way. You’re just a client. For some people it’s enough. If someone is satisfied with a substitute of love it’s all right for me. How they say it “Live and let to live”. But I don’t understand why after people complain for the all world and its women/men.

To say it in the brutal and simple way, a prostitute won’t give you her/his kidney if you need it for transplant. Someone who loves you will do this for free, because he/she cares about you. You haven’t to buy it.

You wrote that you believe in love. One more time gentlemen, what is love?
You write about it but no-one of you tried to describe it.

In Poland we have a phrase ”paper marriage”. It’s when people’s marriage exists only on paper. There’s no love between them. They are with each other because they have children, no money for divorce, they got used to each other etc. But for me, people have an inclination to mix of words’ meaning. I wouldn’t call it marriage

Jelly Donut

04-29-07, 13:24

I know at least one pro that would give me her kidney. ~ the jelly donut suggests helpfully

Naturally, I don't think she would be wildly happy about the deal, it's not the sort of activity most people relish. Of course, I could be wrong. You do find out who your friends are in situations like that, but I have a feeling I'd be running the same odds with a lot of people, regardless of the background relationship.

Otherwise, to repeat the mantra, there are many costs in maintaining a relationship. Keeping a girlfriend and having a good relationship requires a lot of time and respectable percentage of your money. Having a good relationship involves dedicating hours and commiting resources - if I spend my Sunday morning listening to your thoughts on, say, cats that's a Sunday morning I invested in our relationship. I could have been doing something I would rather be doing. These costs are higher when you deal with American girls. The American girl expects her soul mate to really want to listen her thoughts on cats, so you need brainwash yourself, which requires some additional time and effort.

The costs explode when you get married and have a family. When I look at those costs, for me, it's just not worth it when I compare them against the benefits.

To say it in the brutal and simple way, a prostitute won’t give you her/his kidney if you need it for transplant. Someone who loves you will do this for free, because he/she cares about you. You haven’t to buy it.

Mmbmmb

04-29-07, 21:38

gentlemen,

i promised to write an answer for dj but so many things appeared that i’ll try to answer to all of you, especially to jd.

i admit that i didn’t took into consideration one thing. in my naïveté i assumed that some things/ideas are universal and obvious but it isn’t truth to the end.
maybe because i’m a woman and because i’m not a prostitute ( + i’ve never paid someone for sex) i have so different view of reality then you have.

here i guess i have to say some things about myself. just some general information which would make my thoughts more clear then they are, i hope. it’s hard to understand my real thoughts without them. and i’m glad that you devote your precious time to my writing. i also decided to devote a part of my sunday afternoon to you. so it’s a proof that it’s worth to invest in “our relationship” ;-)

so, i have luck or bad luck to live in poland. a country where people went through so many changes in society during 25 last year that it completely changed all their lives. i was born when communism/socialism (you can call it how you want) was falling down. but i could still experience its aspects. as a child i wasn’t getting accustomed to the luxurious brands, cartoon network or mcdonalds. i remember how happy i was when i got grapefruits or a jar of chocolate as a present for the child’s day. now try to give a polish child chocolates for birthday and she/he will tell you “i’m not hungry” and after she/he will ask you where’s his/her new nokia. anyway a lot of things changed and now people, if they only have money, can buy everything. my acquaintances are rather from middle class. they aren’t millionaires but i keep hearing that someone will go on holidays to italy or egypt. they are people whose parents paid for private lessons of foreign languages, music or horse riding. i know only one girl who worked as “a prostitute” (she wasn’t selling herself physically but through an internet camera. i’m sure you know what i mean. i just don’t know how to name it in english). anyway i like her very much. for me she’s nice and she has a great sense of humor. she hadn’t to work this way (her parents are wealthy people. i guess they don’t know about anything) but the money was so good that she couldn’t resist. if a am send her 1000$ because she’s a poor girl from romania ;-) i don’t wonder anymore why she chose this work. 1000 $ is a good salary in poland and she wasn’t faithful to only one guy.

even if i like her i couldn’t do the same job. it’s not about “what will the people say” attitude. it’s about respect for myself. my family and friends taught me that if i don’t respect myself nobody else will do this too. i was taught respect for my body and my mind. i treat it as an unity. i couldn’t split it as my friend did it. in the morning she loves her boyfriend and at evenings she loves the guys on chat.
and i write about her because even if you’re relatively wealthy “keeping up with the joneses” is a global attitude now.

here i’ll admit to one more thing. some friends of mine thinks that i’m simply stupid. well maybe i am ;-). i guess they would say that the fact i decided to discuss with you is the best proof of it but i always answer: “ people learn all their life so there’s still hope for me.” ;-) of course i don’t add the second part of this saying “but they die as stupid as they were” ;-)

anyway they think i’m stupid because i didn’t find a nice am and i didn’t stay in “the hamburger land”. or maybe i found but i didn’t stay. and it was a height of stupidity. when i answer them that i don’t want his money or the green card they simply can’t believe. i can’t understand why the green card is such a wonderful good. i understand if people are poor and economy of their country is in tragic condition. but gentlemen, we talk about poland 2007 not about poland 1980. my friends aren’t poor mexican villagers, with all respect for these people. their situations are different but they live in conditions which people from poorer countries dream about. believe me, internet, dishwashers or cable tv aren’t luxuries goods anymore, at least not in big cities where people earn the better money. instead of being happy (complaining is unluckily our national sport) they all the time grumble that poland is horrible. i tell them that i don’t want to wake up, being 35, with a man who i don’t know at all or what worse i don’t love. i can’t imagine sleeping with a man who i don’t even understand and to work as eg waitress in fast food. and it’s all for the stay in the usa. is this the happiness they talk about? hmm, i don’t think they need their studies for it, just a moron who will be so naïve and who will take them to the land of their dreams. maybe i have no ambition but life is so short and i don’t dream about a big house with suv but about someone who would love me, even if i’m 80 and i don’t look like at the first date ;-)

my family taught me that the material goods are nice but they aren’t necessary to be happy. if there’s a war you can lose your beautiful house but my memories from the stay in us, where i’ve met a master of kissing ;-), nobody can take from me. i don’t know if the example is good but as i wrote in the others post things can’t make you happy, only the other people who love you.

jelly donut i didn’t want to write that a prostitute can’t love. and i didn’t want to write about prostitutes like about creatures without heart. i just don’t want to judge this profession. for sure the rule “live and let to live” is very good. everyone makes choices in his/her life. if being a prostitute is a bad choice he/she will pay somehow for it in the future. i think it’s sufficient “punishment” if i can name it in this way. and because i have impression that you are interested in bible i have another sentence for you: “he who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” if you know who told this and where, there’s a reward-surprise ;-)

and yes, you’re right. it can be your brother, mother, father or friends who can help you but it can also be your wife. it’s more about feelings, not the kind of relationship. i just wanted to write yogin that marriage isn’t a form of prostitution. if some people make it in this way it doesn’t mean that in theory it is prostitution. first of all it should be a sign of love between two people.

i don’t know what kind of wives aw are. i just want to believe that girls you describes aren’t the majority. i mean that they are still people(men and women) who also give something, not only they take. you can have attitude of b.jones. i mean “i want to meet the right guy who is gonna love me for who i am”. the film was funny but it’s only a film and in real life we have to reach a compromise and to work on ourselves. these things are obvious for me.

i also guess that i misunderstood your post about “the botany of desire” but it’s not important anymore. anyway it was more about feeling as a real men (here and now), not generally about the history of men’s domination and marxist historians, yes? ;-)

and if we talk about marriage. rock dog, for sure as a loving husband you will sponsor your wife a hotel room and a nice male stripper ;-) as you wrote “looks don't last forever. if you need that physical attraction, there's always ways to get a little on the side. know what i mean?”. i understand that if your wife need more physical attraction, then you give her, it’s nothing wrong that she “gets a little on the side”.
and if it’s something wrong how can you complain for aw( or rather canadian in your case)? you see, first we have to demand something of ourselves and after to demand of the others.

dj fourmoney, at last i can answer you :-)

i don’t think you lie. i believe that nobody wants to pay you for your writing too ;-)
i only have impression that you look for an ideal princess even if you really don’t know who she is. on the one hand submissive, on the other hand independent? it’s hard to join fire and water ;-) you wrote that “that's splitting hairs, but you know this is my life we're talking about and i want to be 100% happy with my choice, not 90%, that isn't good enough.” it remains me a little when women are waiting for an ideal man but you want a princess imprisoned in a tower who’s waiting for her prince to give him true love. but remember that even if she exists probably an ogre and donkey already released her ;-)

a woman that wants just as much sucess in her home life as she does in her job, if she chooses to have dual careers. being a homemaker is a full time job, responsiblies should be shared. i want it to run smoothly like a well-oiled machine. communication is key to making that happen.i agree that communication is the key but, even with it, woman’s life isn’t simple. (on the other hand who has simple life :-)?) it’s hard to be the best mother, wife, employee 24/7. you always has to sacrifice something to get something else. i think your employer won’t care that nobody can stay with the children (grandma is far away) and you can’t come regularly to work. who will stay with your 6 months old child then?

a nanny? she can but soon your child will start to call her mommy because the real mom is at work. and maternity leave lasts only 3 m-ths. will you resign of your own job and you will replace your wife? but how will you feed the baby if it still needs the breasts? :-) you see, it’s not so simple and you’ll need a lot of oil.

but if something is hard it doesn’t mean that it’s impossible :-) here living with grandma who can help is a big plus ;-)

CBGBConnisur

04-30-07, 02:00

Your ability to meet an American woman is tied to the size of your income and bank account. AWs have become such an afterthought after living overseas for so long, on another note, since I made my post about the petrodollar, it has continued to fall, so much that in Europe an American official was questioned by the press as to what the hell is happening. Ask Fan Gang from China about what he thinks about the US Dollar.

Bango Cheito

04-30-07, 05:51

MMB:

My gf (now fiancée) does the webcam sex thing for a living. She doesn't consider herself a prostitute, although she DEFINITELY is a sex worker.

And she doesn't 'love' the guys on chat, any more than porn actresses 'love' the guys with whom they are doing a scene!! She is selling a fantasy more than any reality just like any sex worker.

And we both 'get a little on the side' every now and again. :P

DJ FourMoney

04-30-07, 09:54

I don't want the princess in a tower, waiting for somebody to rescue them (that's "Capt Save A Hoe" in the ghetto).

If she wants to stay home, that's fine. I'm NOT expecting a 21st Century version of "Donna Reed".

My ex was pretty much ideal personality wise, its the other stuff that lead me to continue my search. No matter how frivolous some might believe the value I put on "other stuff", that's what I look for. I'm not in search of perfection, that is not reality.

I am looking for a nice balance however.

I'm not sure why we would need nannies and all that. Honestly if things go the way I think they'll go we won't have to work for anybody, we can build our own businesses and work when WE want too. I already wanted to spend extended time at home once the kids got around school age. I believe they need their mother more early on and their father around more in their formative years.

Even if it doesn't work out like that, I much prefer somebody that is willing to do what's needed, rather than AW thinking that "YOU" should do what's needed, I'll continue to do what I am doing.

Dating in the US is just too much trouble. The only interested party here is a 41 year old woman with grown children. You might find that hard to believe, but more often than not, that's who usually contacts me.

I shouldn't have to buy a new condo, a BMW and a metrosexually styled wardrobe just to have access to single American woman around 25-32 years old.

But that's what they would have you believe and like I said investing time and money inside the US but outside of California is suicide. You'll basically end up with the same problems but a much smaller pool to access form.

I have spent alot of time around the US; in cities and towns, large and small. I see the same problems only WORST in those areas because you're not left with alot of options if you live in Ark for example, work at Walmart and drive a Geo Metro.

The upper 30% in town are not going to come any where near you!

C'mon I drove a truck for awhile, that's totally unpopular with any woman I consider attractive here. But over "there" THEY DON'T CARE. The Norwegian girl even suggested as much as her brother-in-law drives a truck in Norway.

I am not saying you can find or not run into unscrupulous women. I can only say if you fall into something blindly then you deserve whatever happens to you.

Mmbmmb

05-01-07, 22:20

Gentlemen,

I’m sorry I couldn’t answer you earlier. Well, last time I wanted to write something more but as usually I had no time But maybe firstly I’ll answer to your posts.

Bango Cheito,

Maybe the word "love" wasn’t proper. I didn’t mean that she cares of her clients as of her boyfriend but on the other hand this work leaves some "scars" on her psyche. Writing "scars" I want to say that my friend has problems to cut off her job from personal life. She doesn’t like some clients, or rather she thinks that they are naïve idiots who she can "milk" for the money. But there are also clients she likes. They are nice and intelligent. When she sometimes told me about them I had impression that she cares of them in some way. She feels pity for them that they have problems with wives, at work etc. The job she had is very specific. You wrote "She is selling a fantasy more than any reality just like any sex worker". It’s truth but this sort of fantasy is peculiar because the clients try to buy the real feelings. She told me that some of them fell in love with the girls. They even want to take them to US. But unfortunately there’s always an uncle or grandma who’s dying; .) and they can’t come to America. This situation is, for me, a hunting for people’s hope. Even if these people are naïve idiots it doesn’t change the fact that you know what kind of bullshit you "sell" them. It leaves also "scars" on their psyche. You wrote about porn actresses. I think it’s a very hard job, especially for a woman. Even if some people are convinced that all you have to do is making love, or rather f*cking because "love" also isn’t a proper word here. I don’t know what kind of robot you would have to be, to not feel anything when 3 guys f*ck you, asking all the time "do you like it be**ch? " For some reasons they decided to take this job. I don’t know why. For sure something forced them to it but as I wrote everyone has his/her own life and we have to pay for all decisions we made. And the price we pay is sufficient "punishment" for all bad decisions.

It’s great if you feel ok with your fiancée’s style of life. I can only wish you luck. I hope you’ll be happy. I only don’t understand why gentlemen write so many unpleasant things about AW. It’s all right when your girlfriend uses other men but when AW do it it’s bad? It’s obvious, gentlemen, that you like to "get a little on the side". But why it’s so horrible when AW is unfaithful? Why are you complaining if you accept such behavior in other women and in yourselves?

BTW, you’re the second guy I know who accept such job of his girlfriend. Now I more understand what Jelly Donut wrote about "ownership". Most EE men would say "What? ! My woman works at webcam sex? ! I’ll simply kill her! "

Honestly if things go the way I think they'll go we won't have to work for anybody, we can build our own businesses and work when WE want too. DJ FourMoney,

So you have luck because a lot of people need nanny. They work for banks, stores, police, night clubs and so on. They can’t stay at home. When the family doesn’t want to help, or they can’t, someone has to take care of your child. Will you leave it alone at home? I agree that child needs a mother very much during the first 3 years of its life but after these 3 years, when you stay at home, you’re less and less valuable worker. That’s why having a child is very serious decision for me. Child isn’t a toy you can have because you feel that your biological clock is "in the state of alarm". I’d like to give my child everything what I got from my parents. To teach him/her how beautiful life can be, to show my child everything what’s wonderful in life, from the renaissance art to the taste of French crepe Suzette or Ukrainian borsch:.) Did you know that when a child is listening to the music of Mozart, even as a fetus (it can hear when it’s 16 weeks), its brain is stimulated and music therapy is used to fight against such diseases as epilepsy or autism? But to know it you need a lot of time and willingness to work with your child. How many people come back so tired from work that all they dream about is an evening in front of TV? Life isn’t ideal. You ‘re definitely a lucky man if you can afford to let your wife for being "a mom at home".

I shouldn't have to buy a new condo, a BMW and a metrosexually styled wardrobe just to have access to single American woman around 25-32 years old.

But that's what they would have you believe and like I said investing time and money inside the US but outside of California is suicide. You'll basically end up with the same problems but a much smaller pool to access form. Why California is an exception?

see'mon I drove a truck for awhile, that's totally unpopular with any woman I consider attractive here. But over "there" THEY DON'T CARE. The Norwegian girl even suggested as much as her brother-in-law drives a truck in NorwayI guess people admire cars so much in US because they are more necessary then in Europe. In USA you haven’t good public transport. I don’t have a car. I don’t even need one. Everywhere I want to go I can use buses, trams, taxi, trains or planes. Car is a car. I mean if it lets you to go to a store or a post office it’s a good car. The smaller and the less fuel it uses the better. I couldn’t also understand the love for the SUV but it’s maybe because in my country fuel costs 5, 67$ for gallon. (4, 1-4, 2 zlotych for 1 liter; 1$=2, 76 zl and 1 US gallon= 3, 7854l). Anyway I wrote already an example where I made a difference between Ford and Audi. You wrote truck, you mean this?

http: //trucks. About.com/cs/dodgetruckphotos/l/bl_05dakota_04. Htm

Of course it’s not popular:.) It’s good for someone as you, if you’re 6’0. I’m only 5’26. Can you imagine me trying to get into this car? Especially if I wear a nice, tight skirt. Now you have an answer why it’s not popular;.)

Ok gentlemen. I have to admit to one more thing. A I wrote I found your forum by accident. And when I saw a thread about AW I was really interesting what you write. It’s a little about men ‘s point of view but I was really surprised that you’re so unsatisfied with AW. To tell the truth my EE male friends didn’t complain so much or they complained for all women of the world;.) But what’s more important for me, someone I care about was/is? Convinced that EE women are better. It was only an accident that I was born in Poland. It only gives you information that English isn’t my native language but it can’t say if I have garbage in my head or not.

Lately I found also another thread at this forum: "Marrying Foreign Women". Rock Dog wrote there a post:

"Let's make up a little "Service Comparison".
Local women.... mostly (50 - 75%) fat and/or out of shape.
Foreign women..... very few (5 - 10%) fat or out of shape.
Local women...... poisoned by feminist ideology.
Foreign women..... what's a feminist?
Local women...... view men as adversaries, at best.. someone to be exploited.
Foreign women...... View men as caregivers and therefore someone to be supported and respected.
Local women.... 60% chance of getting a divorce.
Foreign women.... Don't know for sure, but it's got to be less than that.
Local women...... want to marry one that's 10 yrs younger? Mission Impossible
Foreign women..... 5, 10, 15 yrs younger?..... not a problem!
Local women..... have expectations bordering on fantasy, when they look between their legs they see a million dollar asset.
Foreign women... tend to be far more practical and realistic in their expectations. For them, owning a vagina is no big deal, because they know every other girl has one too.”

I won’t comment the part about shape. You can find fat people all over the world. And I know what the feminism is. You perceive it as an ideology who changed women from ideal angels into creatures without hearts. It’s not truth. Feminism let women to be independent and equal individuals in the positive way. The behavior you describe (greed, lack of respect for other people etc) has noting to do with feminism. It’s about someone’s character, so don’t blame feminism.

I don’t think that AW view you, gentlemen, as someone they can exploit. If some of them view you this way I think they would also look in the same way at e. G. EE men and EE women. You simply had a bad luck to meet such people who see only your money. And if someone gives you love it’s normal that you treat this person with respect. It doesn’t mean if he/she from Europe, US or Australia.

Especially for you I found some data from 2004. It was a very important year because it had the biggest amount of divorce in all history of Poland. Sic! In all history. So maybe you’ll find it interesting.

In 2004 there was +- 56 000 of divorces. It’s 293, 2 for every1000 of new marriages and 14, 7 for 10 000 of people (Poland has 38mln of people). The reasons: 32% incompatibility of spouses’ character, 24% unfaithfulness, 9% reprehensible attitude toward the members of family, 9% financial problems, 3% others. In 75% of cases it was a woman who asked for divorce. 70% of divorces is without verdict about someone’s fault. I’m interested from where you took this 60%. Did you find any data or you aren’t sure again?

Yes, you’re right. 15 years of difference isn’t a big problem, at least for me. Do you want to know why? Because I don’t look at these 15 years but at a man. I don’t know where’s the problem. That he will die first, yes? :.) I don’t remember that someone gave me a guarantee that it would happen. And what if I die in a car accident and he will be healthy to the old age? What if I get a message that I have a leukemia, being 35, and he won’t even get a cough? We don’t know gentlemen what’s waiting for us. I don’t like to make plans for the next 20 years of my life because I can’t be sure anything. Besides if I had leukemia and I knew that I have only 1 year of life I would like to enjoy it even more. I wouldn’t care if the beloved person is 20 or 40.

And no, I don’t see a million $ between my legs. I guess I would be a polish national treasure if I had it there;.) And because I had biology at school I know also that other girls have vagina (not only in my country). But gentlemen, I promise that if I’m so famous as J. Lo I’ll insure my precious butt for 1 million $. Then Rock Dog will be able to say that even Polish girls see between their legs a million dollar asset.

Jelly Donut

05-02-07, 02:22

I only don’t understand why gentlemen write so many unpleasant things about AW.

For what it's worth, I know there are a lot of women here in the USA that are outstanding, if I were thinking about living in the United States and having a family here I would almost certainly marry an American woman. That's just me - my opinion based on my experiences.

Also, from my experience, money is a relatively less important factor to American women than it is for women where the per capita GNP is lower. American women are more removed from thinking about money - many worry more about finding something deeper, something more about the contrasts, colors and textures of life. I think this makes it more difficult for a lot of guys to understand them, since money plays a major part in the way a lot of guys think about themselves and their place in the world. A lot of girls in other countries have a much more "grounded" way of thinking about things, so there's often more common ground between American men and these women.

I know a few guys, divorced guys specifically, that will point out that money is what it is all about when a American marriage is falling apart, but I don't know that territory. I just think money is not the only, or even the principle, thing on a woman's mind leading up to the marriage.

Paesano63

05-02-07, 03:32

""A lot of girls in other countries have a much more "grounded" way of thinking about things, so there's often more common ground between American men and these women.""

I agree with Jelly D, and by grounded, my feeling is that foreign women think in terms of "the family" and not themselves so much.

Men, absolutely are brought up to be the bread winners and having a good source of income is crucial for the support(house, cars, vacations, etc) , AW do not think of the family in the same respect, AW think( clothes, cosmetics, etc)....

I was married to an AW, and now have a Panamanian GF, the difference in family values is mazing. My AW ex, now remarried, still not work, still goes to school at age 36, has house cleaners, and stops at the grocery store for a take out dinner. My Panamanian GF works, comes home cooks, and the kids help clean the house, it is a family effort.

Sure there are probably some good AW, but it is so difficult to find amongst the rubble. AW as a group, think more of themselves than of a commitment to family. I work in an office and listen to the AW complain about their men. Apparently, us AM are not living up to what the AW are reading in their novels. Again, these AW are living in a world apart from reality of being part of a family.

Bango Cheito

05-02-07, 05:30

Mmb:

FourMoney was talking about driving a truck, a 5 ton truck with 18 wheels and 40 feet long carrying goods across the country. We not only don't use trains much to transport people, we don't use them much for freight either!

And personally I have never complained about AW using men IN THAT WAY. There are some big cultural differences at work here.

My biggest problem with my AW wife whom I divorced was simply that she couldn't accept me as the person that I am and felt she needed to change me. My current fiancée would cut off both her breasts before she would do something like this, and I feel the same way towards her. I want her to be herself forever and only want to help her change the things about her that SHE wants to change.

And yes her job is extremely difficult. It affects her sex drive of course, because she is not made of wood, she has REAL orgasms while she's working and that tires her out. Her work is very physically demanding in many surprising ways, and because of all that she probably won't be working at it full time for the rest of her life. But there are positives about it too, she gets to work on her languages, especially English, and she gets an insight few of us have into human nature.

I actually have the highest respect for women who work in the sex industry in any way. I think many of them are the wisest people on the planet.

I think America as a country and as a culture (if one could even say America really has a culture in the same way a place like Poland has), is suffering like it never has before in its history, and it's not really a problem with women, it is a combination of deep rooted problems with its cultural institutions. I think part of the problem is the car, like you pointed out, people are just FASCINATED with it here, which is something I never understood, I love my bicycle! :P but part of it also is that people have very unrealistic expectations of each other here, both women AND men.

I don't think too many AM are going to solve the problems by marrying foreign women either, because the expectations are still artificially high, and eventually ANY woman is going to fall short, in many cases. Likewise, I think many foreign women actually DO believe bullshit like 'American men don't cheat' etc. and they hold a lot of myths that can be dangerous.

Also the big problem between two people from two different countries and two different cultures is that unless you are really really well off financially you have to live in ONE country which means that generally the person who moves is going to have to learn a new culture. First off, that means there is a very real danger of sometimes very severe culture shock.

This is especially a big deal for Latin American women coming up to Canada or the US. Many of them have only heard the positives of North America and none of the negatives, and they are totally mentally unprepared for what actually awaits them. Many women from Latin countries come up here for the first time and just BURST INTO TEARS at what they see, especially if they were actually from a nice middle-class neighborhood in some South American city and they wind up living somewhere real gritty up here. Not to mention the loss of closeness to family and friends etc. it can be a big problem.

That is one of the many reasons I'm moving to Bogota to be with my girl, instead of she up here with me. Fortunately in my case I've been hanging out with Colombians for the past 12-13 years or so, already speak the language well, and have a good handle on the culture.

NYC may not exactly be hell on Earth, hell, I still consider it the best part of the whole USA, but for her it would be a horrible experience. The dirt, the rats, the garbage etc. all doesn't bother me but it would drive her up the wall! Not to mention she has a son and can send him to a REALLY good school in Bogota, it's expensive for her but it's possible. Here to duplicate THAT quality of education would cost $20k a year or more, which is just impossible for most mortal humans.

DJ FourMoney

05-02-07, 09:04

yes i meant 5 ton freightliner trucks, 10 forward speed, 2 reverse, alum 23" wheels, sleeps 2, room for my laptop, fridge and tv... if truck drivers stopped all of a sudden the us and canada would come to a screeching halt! only about 30% of the freight in america moves by train, its just too slow.

the passenger trains are deathly slow, that's why people don't use it. if we had a high speed rail system like they have throughout most of europe and japan, things would be different.

i had fun driving trucks, i may do it again. i can't think of an easier way to make 35k or more a year.

i love cars, i have 2 bikes, what's wrong with that? i do this with my cars -
http://s2.***********.com/albums/y20/djfourmoney/?action=view&current=13.flv

red car on the left...

i don't know why mmbmmb thinks we are generalizing, some of the things we say are generalizations but not far from reality.

i can't escape the fact that i connect with european women on a different level than american women. clearly you haven't been through the lower 48 states. i much rather stay here and i really, really don't care what most people's personal views on our state are. yeah the ground moves, it moved on sunday. it moves all the time, you don't always feel it.

i don't see the purpose in moving to say nebraska just to find a woman.

have you been to nebraska???

to visit is fine, to live..... not for a city boy like me!

bango -

i don't think marrying foreign woman is an answer either. however for some of us, i feel its our only shot at happiness. i wouldn't worry about it either, enough american and canadian men are brainwashed into thinking this is the only place they should be looking for a mate.

i don't know what i have to tell mmbmmb that dating here for me is a complete lost cause. i don't like the women i have available to me. just what am i suppose to do with that, make lemonade out of lemons???

i already tried that.

i don't want to date single mothers (not ideal but...)

i don't want to date bbw's (been there, done that)

i don't want to date women older than me (for obvious reasons)

so as krs-one once say "so what the fuck am i suppose to do?"

i'll tell you what i'm going to do.

i'm going to put the 2-3 german single mothers on the backburner and seek some childless, younger and single women. american women 25-30 think i'm too old, you said it yourself mmbmmb you don't mind a 15 year age difference. i'm only shooting for 10-12 years. any younger than that is just too young imho.

is that horrible???

the women here childless and over 30 are that way for reasons i don't always agree with and i wouldn't want to get trapped into a relationship with them anyway.

not looking doesn't work for me either. if i don't look, i don't hang around in areas where women are always and the women i currently work with, well, hell no!

i don't think all aw are generally horrible, but the bad ones out number the good ones!

Mmbmmb

05-02-07, 13:00

I don’t know why but the links don’t work, both mine and yours.

Anyway now I understand what kind of truck you talked about (the photo number 1) I thought that you meant the car from the second photo. It’s also described as a truck, at least in internet.

It doesn’t change the fact that the both are too big for someone who’s 5,2, wearing a hat ;-)

I think America as a country and as a culture (if one could even say America really has a culture in the same way a place like Poland has), is suffering like it never has before in its history, and it's not really a problem with women, it is a combination of deep rooted problems with its cultural institutions. I think part of the problem is the car, like you pointed out, people are just FASCINATED with it here, which is something I never understood, I love my bicycle! :P but part of it also is that people have very unrealistic expectations of each other here, both women AND men.Well, so here’s the problem, not because AW are greedy, bitchy, overweight, picky, ugly, unfaithful and so on. All these features are only the symptoms.

I don't think too many AM are going to solve the problems by marrying foreign women either, because the expectations are still artificially high, and eventually ANY woman is going to fall short, in many cases.Truth because if you don’t respect your partner (or you look for a submissive toy) it won’t help even if your girl is from Mars or an other planet of Solar System.

Also the big problem between two people from two different countries and two different cultures is that unless you are really really well off financially you have to live in ONE country which means that generally the person who moves is going to have to learn a new culture. First off, that means there is a very real danger of sometimes very severe culture shock. This is especially a big deal for Latin American women coming up to Canada or the US. Many of them have only heard the positives of North America and none of the negatives, and they are totally mentally unprepared for what actually awaits them. Many women from Latin countries come up here for the first time and just BURST INTO TEARS at what they see, especially if they were actually from a nice middle-class neighborhood in some South American city and they wind up living somewhere real gritty up here. Not to mention the loss of closeness to family and friends etc. it can be a big problem
I agree but one could write a book about it. Latin American women aren’t the only ones who have to go through it. That’s way my polish friends call me “stupid”. They simply think that US looks like in TV. I have to admit that US have a very good propagandistic machine called Hollywood. Don’t get me wrong. United States has its own disadvantages and advantages, like every country. But for sure it’s not a paradise where you’ll change into a millionaire already at the airport

And personally I have never complained about AW using men IN THAT WAY. There are some big cultural differences at work here.I wrote about AW here because I meant that they “sell” you fantasy about happiness and after you end with an empty bank account after divorce. This is what I meant. Your fiancée, as AW, sell fantasy but in her case you know in advance what you can expect (if you’re not a naïve idiot). You know that it’s just her work. If it’s about AW, you really believe that she loves you even if it’s only an illusion

Married a Russian girl and brought her back to the US , mind you we were both in our 20's at the time, I thought it would really work. She divorced me and married a doctor (20 years senior), now she she's back in school, does no housework (has cleaners come in) and spends $100 on her haircuts, the typical spoiled american woman.

I agree with Jelly D, and by grounded, my feeling is that foreign women think in terms of "the family" and not themselves so much.

Men, absolutely are brought up to be the bread winners and having a good source of income is crucial for the support(house, cars, vacations, etc) , AW do not think of the family in the same respect, AW think( clothes, cosmetics, etc).

I was married to an AW, and now have a Panamanian GF, the difference in family values is mazing. My AW ex, now remarried, still not work, still goes to school at age 36, has house cleaners, and stops at the grocery store for a take out dinner. My Panamanian GF works, comes home cooks, and the kids help clean the house, it is a family effort.So your wife was from Russia, not Unites States? You mean that now she has the citizenship, yes? I guess you ex-Russian wife isn’t the best example of a girl “in family values”. I’m sure your Panamian girlfriend has a wonderful soul but you see that that the problem is in someone’s character not the nationality

Sure there are probably some good AW, but it is so difficult to find amongst the rubble. AW as a group, think more of themselves than of a commitment to family. I work in an office and listen to the AW complain about their men. Apparently, us AM are not living up to what the AW are reading in their novels. Again, these AW are living in a world apart from reality of being part of a family.

I don't know WHAT I have to tell Mmbmmb that dating here for me is a complete lost cause. I don't like the women I have available to me.
I don't think all AW are generally horrible, but the bad ones out number the good ones!Ok gentlemen, let’s say I believe you. But before I’ll answer you “what the fuck you’re suppose to do” I want to ask you about something.

What AW answered you when you told them the same what you told to me? What was their argumentation?

Have you been to Nebraska?No, I haven’t. Neither in California. I was only on the east cost of US. That’s why I asked why California is better. I simply wasn’t there and I’d like to know the difference. And I don’t talk about climate but about relationships between men and women

American Women 25-30 think I'm too old, you said it yourself Mmbmmb you don't mind a 15 year age difference. I'm only shooting for 10-12 years. Any younger than that is just too young IMHO.Is that horrible?No, it’s not horrible. It’s a little similar to attitude of AW who want someone eg no more then 5 years older. If your attitude isn’t horrible, I also don’t think their expectations are.

And if it’s about me, I don’t mind if someone is 15 years older OR younger then me because I look what this man has in his head, not what he has in ID

CBGBConnisur

05-02-07, 13:13

Jelly Donut

05-02-07, 14:19

This is especially a big deal for Latin American women coming up to Canada or the US. Many of them have only heard the positives of North America and none of the negatives, and they are totally mentally unprepared for what actually awaits them. Many women from Latin countries come up here for the first time and just BURST INTO TEARS at what they see, especially if they were actually from a nice middle-class neighborhood in some South American city and they wind up living somewhere real gritty up here. Not to mention the loss of closeness to family and friends etc. it can be a big problem.

That is one of the many reasons I'm moving to Bogota to be with my girl, instead of she up here with me. Fortunately in my case I've been hanging out with Colombians for the past 12-13 years or so, already speak the language well, and have a good handle on the culture.

NYC may not exactly be hell on Earth, hell, I still consider it the best part of the whole USA, but for her it would be a horrible experience. The dirt, the rats, the garbage etc. all doesn't bother me but it would drive her up the wall! Not to mention she has a son and can send him to a REALLY good school in Bogota, it's expensive for her but it's possible. Here to duplicate THAT quality of education would cost $20k a year or more, which is just impossible for most mortal humans.

Exactly! You've thought all this stuff through. It sounds like you're a few years ahead of me in terms of making it happen. I hope you'll keep updating the board when you move to Bogota. It sounds like you've already laid the groundwork and know most everything to expect.

I can't remember where it is on this board, probably the Bogota thread, but Straight Shooter wrote a report called "Hope This Will Explain Life Here Compared To The United States" which discusses life in Bogota for an ex-pat. It seems like the most common-sense way to move through life.

CBGBConnisur

05-02-07, 17:00

DJ FourMoney

05-02-07, 18:48

Mmbmmb

05-03-07, 14:27

When you bring up any of the subjects to American Woman -
They Say: Housework is beneath them

If your at home all fricken day what else are you SUPPOSE to be doing???

They Say: I don't need a man, but if the right one came along it would be nice...
Career and Status are more important to most women. So they go to school, work hard and make it to the top. Around 35 their lives are empty and the biological clock is forever ticking. So they RUSH to find somebody like themselves.

When they can't find a male carbon-copy, they claim "There Are No Good Men Left"
Hmm, it’s interesting. At the beginning I didn’t know what to think because it’s not an argumentation which leads to a discussion but “a defense” or whishes.

I’d like to ask you DJ FourMoney, and you gentlemen, have you ever read a women’s magazine like “Cosmopolitan”, “Glamour” or “Elle”? Sometimes I buy them. I’m always astonished when I read them. The amount of commercials, full of beautiful girls who aren’t real, is huge. Anyone can’t equal such ideal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE0owrvLIQo

But I like reading there articles about fashion, make-up etc. Sometimes interviews with different people but most of them are simply not interesting. Anyway articles about relationships, sex, psychological problems etc. are the most frightening in these magazines. You can find there for example “a guy decoder” or read “guy-advice guru” who answers the reader’s questions. Let me copy some question for you:

-"I hate my boyfriend's best friend! What should I do?"
-"Does my boyfriend's online chatting count as cheating?"
-"Should I go to a strip club with my boyfriend?"
-"He's a guy — shouldn't he be wanting sex all the time?"
-"Is it a mistake to have sex on the first date?"
-"How can I get him to do what I want to do?"
- "Why won't he do the laundry like I asked?"
- "Why does he get so naughty during sex?"
-"Why doesn't he care about the wedding?"
-"How can I convince the guy I went home with that I'm not a sl*t?"
-“His weird seduction moves turn me off"
-"I think my boyfriend is gay"
-"How do I tell my guy I'm a 25-year-old virgin without freaking him out?"
-"I make a lot more money than my man does"
- "My guy and my mom have more in common than he and I do"
-"Why do I always get dumped after the third date?"

Ok, it’s enough gentlemen. Am I the only one person who has impression that I don’t read magazines for adult people but for teenagers?

The message all media try to give people, especially women, is simple. If you want o be “a hot chick” you have to buy a handbag from Gucci, to look like Lindsay Lohan, to work as a model, to sleep with everyone who’s famous(=in fashion) and to spend holidays in Paris. And when you have it all you’ll be happy. There’s no deeper reflection what it is “happiness”. Sex is like drinking a Starbucks’s coffee. They don’t write about any STD ( only how not to get pregnant) or the influence of sex into psyche (your and your partner’s one). Sleeping with 5 guys at the same time is normal. When they write about beauty they only advice what kind of cream you have to buy, not that beauty is also in your attitude to life.

Do you know what I want to say gentlemen? That the only one pattern of happiness is being of extra slim model with Moschino’s coat who drinks caramel frappuccino. And money for all this stuff you have from 1) your man or rich daddy/family 2) salary for photo session or 3) inheritance.

And people believe in that. Another problem is that many women think they should be perfect in everything. (It’s hard to look like Paris Hilton if you have 3 kids and you work from 8 to 18 o’clock) But nobody can. You can’t be the best employee, mother, wife, sister, friend 24/7 etc. because it’s even the faster way to get a heart attack then sex with Polvo ;-)

They think that if they work harder and they demand more they will be happy one day. The problem is that if we can’t enjoy our lives now we probably won’t enjoy them in the future. It doesn’t matter how rich we will be.

I think Bango Cheito was right writing “I think America as a country and as a culture (if one could even say America really has a culture in the same way a place like Poland has), is suffering like it never has before in its history, and it's not really a problem with women, it is a combination of deep rooted problems with its cultural institutions.”.

We already wrote about eg consumerism, greed, materialism, selfishness. And it’s not only a problem of US.

CBGBConnisur wrote ” I made my post about the petrodollar, it has continued to fall, so much that in Europe an American official was questioned by the press as to what the hell is happening. Ask Fan Gang from China about what he thinks about the US Dollar”.

In a few years, maybe 10, maybe 15, you’ll see what will happen to all those “paradises full of good women” when economy of their countries is better. If someone can’t respect an other person now, he/she will never do this. It has nothing to do with money. I respect a dustman and his work because without it I would live in a dump. But there are people who say “He’s only a dustman. I won’t talk to him” or people who say ”He’s only a stupid, fat American. What he can know?”

And now: “what the fuck you’re suppose to do”

Well, DJ FourMoney, if your situation in US seems so hopeless you should go overseas. I think it’s the only one way to find out if the foreign women are better for you. If they aren’t, at least you will visit some places, you’ll meet new people and you won’t regret: “I didn’t even try”.

Anyway I hope you’ll be happy and you’ll find what you are looking for. I wish you luck.

Bango Cheito

05-04-07, 06:16

Bango spend a good amount of time in another city, one with a reputation for a good quality of life, I moved to Sydney from New York City, I absolutely love Sydney but wouldn't go to NYC if you gave me $10 million(well maybe).

I lived 6 years in Toronto before NYC. And NYC is MUCH better than Toronto. Toronto has worse air pollution, worse water, worse traffic, higher taxes, AND more crime to boot! TO has a better reputation than NY as a city but it's TOTALLY UNDESERVED IMO.

I've been all over the US too. I hate it. I like riding my bicycle, and taking transit I HATE cars and can't stand driving. In most of the US you have no choice but to get a car and drive if you ever wanna get anywhere.

I'm moving to Bogota, which has a HORRIBLE reputation as a city but actually is a quite nice place. It has a great climate, great food, great public transpotation (AND bike paths), incredible nightlife and people, the cost of living is super cheap, even by shitty local economic standards, it's probably the most underrated place on Earth. Of course even 10 years ago it was still a total dump, dangerous and choked with some of the world's worst traffic and air pollution.

Not to mention, the whole city just SCREAMS sex, kind of like NYC did back in the day. Of course I wouldn't recommend it for just anyone, especially if you don't have a great command of Spanish, you'll totally miss out on everything there without it!

Bango Cheito

05-04-07, 06:17

MMB, the media just about everywhere on the planet does that these days, it aims at stupid and immature people, and encourages stupidity and immaturity. They can sell more shit to more people if they aren't very good critical thinkers and can't control their emotional impulses very well. I haven't owned a TV in years and I think I have gotten a lot LESS stupid because of it :P

Happy Bigamist

05-04-07, 06:33

I'm moving to Bogota,..It has ... great public transpotation (AND bike paths),Bogota, Colombia? As in drug cartels and gun culture? And bike paths? Would that it were true.

DJ FourMoney

05-04-07, 06:54

The majority of Americans are "sheep" they follow what they are told. Which is why Cosmo has no problem filling over 200 pages of a magazine with ads.

In Men's Magazines like Men's Health, they actually look at it as most of us on forum look at it and is sort of a defense guide, because nobody else is willing to write one as its not PC. After all MEN don't need help right? We already have all the answers...

I never said I couldn't find anybody here. I'm just saying the time and money needed to invest in the local market or even extending my search to other states would cost just as much as flying overseas several times to meet women until I find a match.

I just felt my money is better spent in a more interesting place, meeting people and learning about other cultures for the betterment of ME. If in that I find somebody that has all the things I'm looking for then great! I just feel my chances are about 50% better than here.

Jelly Donut

05-04-07, 14:15

Biking is popular in Bogotá. So, yes, it is true.

Bogota, Colombia? As in drug cartels and gun culture? And bike paths? Would that it were true.

Jelly Donut

05-04-07, 14:36

In a few years, maybe 10, maybe 15, you’ll see what will happen to all those “paradises full of good women” when economy of their countries is better.

Yes. This is a big issue, it seems like it's going to suck being a guy on planet earth in 50 years.

But that's someone else's problem.

Furiouz

05-04-07, 19:03

Furiouz

05-04-07, 19:04

I really need to learn how to paragraph. =)

Happy Friday, folks!

F

DJ FourMoney

05-04-07, 22:46

Let's flip your perspective. Yes, those magazines are filled with mindless drivel for women, as most things in media are. But those magazines are aimed only at women. BY women. Now take a look at any TV commercial featuring a man and woman in the US. The male will ALWAYS be made to look like an incompetent childish idiot. ALWAYS. And these commercials are seen nationwide by both genders. The same goes for any comedy on TV. Hell, even the dramas only have male villains. If a female is a villain, which is hardly ever, she is super-hot.
Basically media caters to the LCD, the lowest common denominator. It hurts our perception of men and women. It tells women they can be a CEO a mom and a supermodel all at once. It tells women that men are dumb and incompetent. It fills the minds of people with luxury items that few can really really afford comfortably, but many go in debt to achieve. If folks looked within themselves for happiness instead of some material goods, then maybe we wouldn't have so many postings on this forum.
Then again, what do I know? I'm powerlifter/video gamer/history buff that likes to think their is an attractive sweet girl somewhere on the planet for me.

Cheers.

Chances are she's in Europe and I pretty much can confirm that. I don't believe there is only one match. I feel your matches can range from 80%-100% compatible. It really depends if you want to put up with her personalty faults and weather she'll put up with yours.

I learned a long time ago you should eliminate the ones that bother you the most.

For me is indecision, smoking, obesity & general lack of common sense

European women seem to be better informed, but that doesn't mean they automatically make the best decisions, after all I know one girl in Germany with 3 kids from 2 different fathers and she's never been married...

Smoking is big in Europe but I always felt if they loved you enough they would quit...

Obesity is a given because just how many fat girls are in Europe? If you go OUT OF YOUR WAY you'll find some, but generally most are slim to average, which suits me perfectly

Common sense you can really only find out by spending extended time with the woman in question and just see how she reacts to problems and questions. Is she a problem solver or a complainer? I think we can agree problem solvers are better in touch with common sense...

I'm always up for Wingmen... I'm pretty sure I'll be making at least 2-3 more trips before I find somebody.

Mmbmmb

05-04-07, 23:14

Gentlemen,

Writing about magazines I wanted to draw your attention to expectations towards women, not only AW. And exactly, magazines "say" to women that they have to be, not that they can be, "a CEO a mom and a supermodel all at once". I already wrote it’s hard because if you work 10-12h a day to be a CEO you can’t find time to go with your child to art classes or to prepare dinner for your husband. The problem is that "modern world" expects that you can do this. And women feel guilty. If they are "a mom at home" and they don’t make a career then they have no ambition and in my country people call them "home hens". It means that someone is stupid and good only for house cleaning. Unluckily people didn’t learn yet that it’s also work and cleaning ladies are expensive if they don’t work at their own houses. On the other hand if you work hard to be a CEO and you haven’t children you’re selfish old maiden without heart because it’s the role of woman to take care of family.

Do you understand gentlemen? Whatever you do it’s always wrong. And I have impression that women got lost in that all. They aren’t stupid "sheep". They don’t hurt you because it’s funny for them. They want happiness but they don’t know to the end what it is and how to get it. Gentlemen, there’s no man or woman who doesn’t make any mistakes. We all are imperfect but we can learn. If we made a mistake and we haven’t to do it again. Women’s magazines show only one version of happiness and people believed in it because media has a huge power all over the world. It doesn’t matter if you’re a woman in Poland, US or China. We all read the same version of articles and we see the same photos. To tell the truth if I see a young girl with fashionable clothes I can’t say where she comes from. H&M, Gap, Benetton or Banana Republic are well-known everywhere.

And the fact that "those magazines are filled with mindless drivel for women, as most things in media are" is a problem. I think it’s only about money. They try to sell as much bullshit as they can. Lately I went to H&M to buy some clothes. I saw a sale and I bought a blouse. I paid for it about 5$ but the first price, before sale, was 25$. Now gentlemen, tell me, how do you think, how much does it cost to produce this blouse? It’s a product made in China. They had to transport the blouse to Poland, to pay the duty and fee for factory which made it. The store also had to earn its own money so I started to wonder how much it costs to produce my blouse. I’m not astonished anymore that Madonna design for and advertise H&M because without her interview eg in Cosmo that " I love Viktor & Rolf collection for H&M and I’m happy that I can design for them. Etc. " nobody would buy their clothes. The quality of it is even below "the sea level";.)

And it’s not only H&M which makes its clothes in China. Look at your Nike shoes or Tommy Hilfiger’s jeans.

Yes. This is a big issue, it seems like it's going to suck being a guy on planet earth in 50 years.

But that's someone else's problem.Jelly Donut, I prefer when you are an optimist :-) Think that you have at least 10 or 15 years to find the “super women” ;-)

In Men's Magazines like Men's Health, they actually look at it as most of us on forum look at it and is sort of a defense guide, because nobody else is willing to write one as its not PC. After all MEN don't need help right? We already have all the answers...I have to admit gentlemen that you inspire me to get to know new things. I’m not omniscient. I’ve never read any men’s magazine so I decided to do it. I checked Men’s Health, Playboy and AskMen.com.
Well, it was even funny. I couldn’t believe that your female neighbors look like on the photo “The girls next door” (I attached it) ;-) And I found also some questions/tips which are interesting for men:

-4 Sex Tricks Women Use
-7 Lap Dance Moves To Make You Melt
-5 Types Of Men Every Woman Wants
-What to do when she won’t return your calls.
-Why Women Like Jerks
-Places To Find Kid-Friendly Women
-Female Qualities Single Dads Should Look For
-Wanting Your Friend’s Girlfriend
-Is Her Flirting Serious?

And so on :-)

Sometimes, gentlemen, I have impression that, in these magazines, we are “alien creatures” for each other ;-)

One of my favorite books is “Solaris” by Stanislav Lem. There was a film based on it, by Steven Soderbergh, but it wasn’t outstanding. It was more famous for George Clooney’s naked butt so you haven’t to watch it ;-) Anyway the book was about a psychologist, Chris Kelvin. He was sent to a space station to checked why the commander of an expedition to the planet “Solaris” died. Well, the plot is interesting but the real “hero” of the book is the planet. It’s a big, alive organism. They try to examine it and to establish any contact but it’s no use. They are tired and don’t understand it. It’s not what they expected to meet. They rather thought that they would meet different races similar to human race but they weren’t prepared for something like Solaris. The author states that people like searching mirrors ,their own image in all new things. In naivety we thinks that everything feels (thinks?) in the same way how we feel. It’s not truth to the end. Luckily we don’t have to establish contact with alive planets :-) but with other people.

I agree with you that communication is the key but to communicate with the others we need understanding, a little imagination and a lot of good will :-) You really don’t need the tips what to do when she keep telling you “Not tonight, sweetheart. I have a headache” ;-) All we can do it’s to tell our partner what we feel and what’s wrong. After it’s up to her/his what to answer and how to solve the problem. If she/he doesn’t want to talk or rejects offer of counseling etc what else you can do? You can’t live instead of someone. One should do all what one can but anyone can’t make decisions for someone else. I always try to be sincere and to do everything to fix up the things but to create/keep a relationship we need also the second side.

Now take a look at any TV commercial featuring a man and woman in the US. The male will ALWAYS be made to look like an incompetent childish idiot. ALWAYSAnd what’s wrong with this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVYVpxrTjrg&NR=1

Never say never (or always) ;-)
Or maybe you haven’t this commercial in US?

Bango Cheito

05-05-07, 09:45

Bogota, Colombia? As in drug cartels and gun culture? And bike paths? Would that it were true.

Dude, why write when you obviously don't know??

1) the two big cartels were in Medellin and Cali, NOT Bogota
2) Muggers use knives there, not gunsas a rule. How do I know, I've seen it, THREE TIMES! The US is the 'gun culture' country, dude.
3) http://www.idu.gov.co/sist_trans/ciclorrutas.htm# ... go to the bottom, click on "Descargar Plano de CicloRuta" ... it's the best bike path system IN THE WORLD!

Next time think before you vomit. Thanks.

Bango Cheito

05-05-07, 09:48

MMB what I think would make things better is if everybody threw their TV in the garbage, left their cars at home, and started transporting themselves by other means that might actually mean contact with the rest of the human race. I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon in America!! BUT it would certainly go a long way towards curing us of our alienation and isolation and our anti-social tendencies!

Jelly Donut

05-05-07, 15:15

Jelly Donut, I prefer when you are an optimist :-) Think that you have at least 10 or 15 years to find the “super women” ;-)

Excellent. Well, by nature I am an optimist - I feel damn fortunate when I look around me, but that does not mean I can afford to ignore the future and the fickle nature of God.

Besides, your projection is an optimistic one - in the not-to-distant future the circumstances of women around the world will be much improved - and I agree with it or at least I hope it will turn out true. I think if things do not improve for women, and the poorest countries, in the next couple of generations things will be worse for everyone, everywhere.

Still, that has implications for men. Right now, I live in a country with a relatively high standard of living and this gives me advantages in terms of finding women in countries where the per capita GNP is lower. To my way of thinking, that's not any different than a guy who grew up in Palm Springs romancing a girl from suburban Seattle; he has some advantages. It's just the way it is.

But as the GNP of both China and India and Brazil and so on increase, it's naturally going to throw a big series of problems in the ISG mix. Demand is going to increase as guys from, say, Poland can increasingly afford to go to Thailand. And supply will decrease as the quality of life improves in, say, Brazil. It's a grim long-term forcast for many future ISG readers - but it's probably not going to be a major issue for current readers. By the time things get really hard, most of us will be to old to care anymore.

And again, in the big picture it may not serve the best long-term interests of ISG readers - but it's an optimistic vision for the world.

Furiouz

05-06-07, 03:13

Mmb, I think we are sort of arguing the same point from a different angle. In general, the media fosters unrealistic expectations through print and video for both genders. I think the case is too many people fall for it, for that stereotype.
Case in point. One of my clients is 5'1 140lbs. Now that sounds like a big woman, and she can stand to gain some lean mass and drop her body fat percentage. But she is easily one of the most attractive women I have ever met. I could easily easily make love to this girl for the next couple of decades. I was watching the other guys in the gym as I was training this client and they ALL just STARED at her. But she is looking to drop 25lbs to fit in some ridiculous size. I keep telling her don't worry about the weight, worry about your health and how you feel. I think she is almost perfect as she is.
As Western men it is becoming more and more difficult to find a true partner in our consumer driven culture. Women can have their run of men as they wish, so they have different problems in that regard. But this is a forum for men. There are ample enough places on the Net for women to vent about their problems.

"Cash Rules Everything Around Me, C.R.E.A.M get the money...dolla dolla bill y'all".

PS-Regarding that commercial, there are anomalies throughout all of nature =P

Furiouz

05-06-07, 03:22

I'm always up for Wingmen... I'm pretty sure I'll be making at least 2-3 more trips before I find somebody.

I'm a pretty good Wing, if I do say so myself =)

Mmbmmb

05-06-07, 16:25

Jelly Donut,

Maybe I’m stupid but not so stupid to believe that prostitution will disappear or it will decrease widely. I wouldn't worry so much about ISG's readers. I like to think that it’s a question of poverty but it isn’t, at least not to the end. Prostitutes work also in USA, Canada or Japan. And these countries are wealthy. Even if you don’t work in these countries as a lawyer but as a waitress you aren’t hungry and you can rent a place to live. Of course it’s not a house in the center of Manhattan but you don’t worry that you can’t buy shoes for winter or you have no money for food. I understand that poor girls from eg SA can come to US and to work there as escorts but I don’t believe that all prostitutes are from foreign countries. If you’re a healthy, American girl who graduated high school you have a lot of possibilities eg army or part time job and credit for studies ect. You haven’t to be a sex worker. So why do they decide to work as prostitutes if they aren’t poor? I wrote more about the gentlemen’s “dreamlike princess”.

I have no ambition to save the morality of the world and I have no illusions that my attitude to life is universal.

I know JD that you can say: “I’m too old for that shit she tries to “sell” me.” ;-) But what’s important in life it isn’t only sleeping with as big amount of women as you can. You wouldn’t discuss with me if all what you expected from life is mongering. I also didn’t start any post here.

I just wanted to write gentlemen that you haven’t to agree for all this crap. I mean what you pay for you should get for free from a beloved person. That’s why I wrote “the theory about plants” and all my “golden thoughts”. I was surprised and scared when I was reading your posts before. Let me quote some of them (partly from thread about AW and partly from this about marrying foreign woman):

Big Bubba (thread: MFW, 03-03-06)

I was married to a sexy brazilian lady ffor 5 years. treated her like a lady didn't cheat on her. did all my husband duties, kept roof over her head all bills paid food on table even gave her a nice car mazda protege 5 wagon. Even treated her son like a king. Well life was great until her temporary green card arrived then sex slowed down and life started getting crappy, and when the permanent green card arrived she left me in the dirt. Didn't even take shit just walked out of my life.

Now I treat all women for what they are tricks and ho's. And I do plan on bringing a foreign bride over and she will be my live in prostitute I will screw her so much that when her green card gets here she will have a bowling ball sized vagina and thats a fact.

If it sounds like I am sour yes I am and many of you are also thats why we are all on the sex web page discussing sex and sharing women.

I would just rather have *****s for the rest of my life. Not many headaches and I never have to say I love you.

Thats my 2 cents worth. don't even put me down because many of you are on same boat as me for feelings no matter where you live in the world.

NoFatso (AW, 05-30-02)

American women are so nasty, fat, saggy, obese, not taking care of themselves.... all these have to do with the guys! American men make them so. Why? The bad attitude, the lack of taking care of oneself, the "endowment mentality" does not exist in vacumn. It is through ages of reinforcement, encouragement, pampering, from girlhood to womanhood. Everytime you take a fat woman out, everytime you let your woman cheat your money, everytime you wine and dine a woman and did not get laid, everytime you pamper her without a reward of love. The monster is not created overnight. So, guys, blame yourself, not the women.

Chocha Monger (AW, 11-23-06)
The truth is AW are only after one thing. Cash. Their means and methods may vary but the end result is always the same

NicFrenchy(AW, 11-22-06)
American women are completely worthless creatures. Materialistic and heartless.

Ezinho (AW, 10-28-06)
We have a major problem in this country, gentlemen. There is, obviously, a war against men in this country right now, but it's more than just that. There is a war against HETERO men. It is no longer appropriate in this country to find a woman attractive; that's considered a crime now.

OwnaFord1994 (MFW, 03-09-06)
What foreign women offer to these guys is claimed to be "relatively young, attractive wife, who doesn't have her brain poisoned by feminism, materialism and puritanism-at least to start with".It’s enough. I guess you know what I mean. I know it’s a forum for men and their problems but if it’s about relationship and love women’s problems are also men’s problems and vice versa. We agreed that the reason of your “failures” with AW is partly a problem of culture, personal character of woman and changes in the American society. So it’s not only fault of AW.

I admit gentlemen that I simply like people and I love life, generally. I like listing to what people have to say because I’m not omniscient and maybe I’ll learn something new. I don’t like to take life seriously and I try to be an optimist. Your posts gentlemen were so full of bitterness. I had impression that every morning you wake up and you start the same mantra: “AW are worthless creatures who declared war against us”. No wonder that life is hard. Do you think gentlemen that Polish men are ideals? So no, they aren’t but life without them would be very boring and without any taste ;-)

Well, I want to think, gentlemen, that even if it’s hard to find a true partner it’s not impossible. But if you think:

“And I do plan on bringing a foreign bride over and she will be my live in prostitute I will screw her so much that when her green card gets here she will have a bowling ball sized vagina” or “There is, obviously, a war against men in this country right now”

You’ll probably never trust anyone again.

PS-Regarding that commercial, there are anomalies throughout all of nature =PIn my country people say that an exception confirms the rule. Well, I just like to look for the exceptions and to believe that I can find them more and more ;-)

George90

05-06-07, 19:35

I haven't had the time to post in the past 2 weeks but some people made interesting points that I want to comment on.

1. Is it just me, or has anyone else here seen these fat AWs that have somehow snagged good looking, handsome dudes?? Have you guys seen this, I'm talking about the 200+ pound AW wearing bumble-bee glasses going out with a slim, fit AM. Is this some new fad that happened while I was out of the country? Maybe this is the "In" thing to do now, and no one told me (as usual!). The men usually seem like the effeminate types, so maybe it is some sort of dominant/submissive relationship. Or maybe he is gay and just going shopping with his best friend? Help me out here, guys.

I have been seeing that for several years. I don't have a definitive answer to the phenomenon. My suspicion is that many of these men just don't know any better. My other suspicion is that the majority of these men need to get married right away for some reason, know that they are marrying WAY down, and plan to get primo pussy on the side throughout their marriage(s).

2. Has anyone here noticed an increase in AW dating FOREIGN men?? Now, I live in California, so I am specifically talking about the AW that are dating Mexican men. Most of the AW that I see with Hispanic guys are the worst of the worst. I mean we're talking obese, 300+ lbs. Mostly I have seen this combination at the local shopping mall. It seems like the AW is usually bigger than the hispanic guy, and in some instances, seems to be the one "in charge" of the relationship. In a few instances, these poor bastards actually knocked up these women and have kids with them now! Has anyone else seen this? Are these guys just doing it to get the citizenship (that HAS to be it!) or maybe they have a thing for morbidly-obese gringas? And these are the women that won't let *US* bring back women from other countries??? This one really makes me scratch my head.

In many 3rd world countries, wher food is scare, being fat is a sign of welath. Fat women aree a sign of good child-bearing ability and are considered beuatiful. There was a movie on this theme recently on HBO called 'Phat Grilz'. It is about American fat women who meet African men who find them beautiful and want to romance them. Maybe some parts of Mexico that is still the standard.

When I was in college, guys form Mali, Senegal, Kenya, etc. were ALL OVER the 300 lb. women like white on rice.

George90

05-06-07, 19:46

George90

05-06-07, 19:51

I don't think all AW are generally horrible, but the bad ones out number the good ones!

Exactly! The wife material in the US is few and far between, and a man must jump through 100 hoops to find out. It is simply a better use of our scarce time and money to look where the prospects are better. That is outside the US, in whatever part of the world tickles our fancies.

Jelly Donut

05-06-07, 23:49

Jelly Donut,

Maybe I’m stupid but not so stupid to believe that prostitution will disappear or it will decrease widely. I wouldn't worry so much about ISG's readers.

I think you are right. I remember from economics...prostitution is some kind of "good" that does not go away, even if incomes increase. Still, I think prices can go up quite a lot and the supply will decrease. Oh well.

Npaul1

05-06-07, 23:58

That they are too much like American Men. Fat, self centered capitalists, always looking for a buck, lousy in bed.

Look in the mirror. How much weight have you gained in the last 5 years? Well this stuff is being said behind your back in the 3d world counties. They don't say it to your face because you have $$$.

Paesano63

05-07-07, 00:12

Do not fear JD, it will never go away, that is why it is the oldest profession.

Also, the laws of economics. As long as there are rich and poor, there will be people selling whatever they can.

Actually I have not done p4p for a year and a half, I am happy with my current GF and do not stray. We vacationed at a beach resort recently and had a great time. I truly wish to make her happy.

I do not think all or most AW are poor prospect. But us divorced or single gentlemen over 35 or 40 and up, need to realize that the truly good family oriented AW probably got married in the 20's and stayed married. So the pool of available AW that men in that age bracket are seeing are not the best prospects, but rather prospects that have issues.

I do agree with mmmb on one issue, many AW have been sold a bag of goods that they can be a doctor, lawyer, ceo and be a great mother at the same time. I call it the liberal lie, created by elitist feminists, that tell AW to have a full career and a parent at the same time. Then many of these elite feminists turn around and hire foreign nannies to raise ther kids, which to me is hypocritical because they are paying some foreign women a typically miniscule wage.

There is no substitute for a parent and no more fulfilling job. Just take a look at the poor education for our american children, education starts in the home, and with a decent breakfast/dinner I might add. Not Mcdonald or Dunkin Donuts to/from school. How about helping your child with homework. Etc. But the elitsit AW like Hillary downplay the importance of motherhood.

Rubber Nursey

05-07-07, 02:33

Mmbmmb - Your assertion that people living in a wealthy country would never find themselves without a place to live, without shoes to wear or without food on the table, is not correct. To afford a house in a developed country, even if it's a dump in outback Australia, many people are left with little or no money for food or clothes. Just because they're not begging on the street, doesn't mean they're not desperately poor by LOCAL standards.

But that wasn't the point I wanted to make. There are a multitude of reasons why people would choose prostitution and poverty is only one of them. Sex work is a means of earning income, which is the same reason people choose to work in factories or retail stores or offices. Sex workers need no formal education or qualifications to get the job. They can (generally) work their own hours, which is especially desirable for single parents or students. And most importantly, there is the potential to earn large amounts of money in a comparatively short amount of time. Why would a single Mum choose to work a 60 hour week in a supermarket (not only missing out on being with her kids, but having to pay for someone else to look after them, as well) when she could earn the same amount of money working one or two days a week in a brothel, during school hours?

And, hard as it is for many people to believe...some of us just love the job. :)

Jelly Donut - An interesting thing is happening here at the moment. My state is going through a MASSIVE economic boom, largely due to mining. People are flooding the state for their chance to earn thousands of dollars a week on the mines. The 'average' WA income has skyrocketed - and traditionally, the sex industry has always operated alongside the mines in WA, servicing thousands of cashed-up miners working away from home for weeks at a time.

But this time, sex workers are making less money than they ever have. My theory? The resources boom has led to a real estate boom, with WA housing prices more than doubling in the past two to three years; mortgage repayments have gone through the roof and in many places, particularly in the mining towns, it's often cheaper to buy than it is to rent. The price of fuel is also astronomical. In a state like mine, where we can travel hundreds of kilometres just to get to the nearest bank, fuel is our lifeblood. As well as our personal vehicle expenses, increasing freight costs have pushed up the price of food and other goods. And the list goes on...

This huge increase in the cost of living has had a rather dramatic effect on the sex industry. People have much less disposable income to fritter away on P4P, so business is getting quieter. However, the gap between the 'haves and the have-nots' has grown considerably, meaning more people are turning to prostitution to make ends meet. Our resources boom has left us with more hookers and less clients. Prices are going DOWN. Service quality (as well as unsafe sex practices) is going UP.

PanamaJack

05-07-07, 04:41

"slavery"? "legalized [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)"? how could anyone think of marriage in such terms? let's travel back to the 1960s and '70s and listen to the feminist drumbeats. and keep in mind that, like much of what was being preached and written about with religious zeal in those days of cultural revolution, even the most absurd ideas had a way of magically morphing into public policy a few years later.

* "we have to abolish and reform the institution of marriage ... by the year 2000 we will, i hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not god ... we must understand what we are attempting is a revolution, not a public relations movement." – gloria steinem, quoted in the saturday review of education, march 1973

* "being a housewife is an illegitimate profession ... the choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. the heart of radical feminism is to change that." – vivian gornick, feminist author, a tenured professor at the university of arizona, the daily illini, april 25, 1981

* "we can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." – feminist author robin morgan, who became an editor at ms. magazine

* "if women are to effect a significant amelioration in their condition it seems obvious that they must refuse to marry ... the plight of mothers is more desperate than that of other women, and the more numerous the children the more hopeless the situation seems to be ... most women ... would shrink at the notion of leaving husband and children, but this is precisely the case in which brutally clear rethinking must be undertaken." – germaine greer, author, scholar and lecturer at the university of warwick, england, in "the female eunuch" in 1971

* "like prostitution, marriage is an institution that is extremely oppressive and dangerous for women." – radical feminist author andrea dworkin in 1983

* "until all women are lesbians, there will be no true political revolution." – feminist author and journalist jill johnson, in "lesbian nation: the feminist solution," 1973

* "the legal rights of access that married partners have to each other's persons, property, and lives makes it all but impossible for a spouse to defend herself (or himself), or to be protected against torture, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), battery, stalking, mayhem, or murder by the other spouse ... legal marriage thus enlists state support for conditions conducive to murder and mayhem." – claudia card, professor of philosophy at the university of wisconsin-madison, in 1996

first, let's be very clear about what we're looking at – pure rage, an all-consuming hatred of men.

DJ FourMoney

05-07-07, 04:47

Rubber Nursey

05-07-07, 05:35

oh, for goodness sake. you think a few quotes from radical lesbian feminazis are really representative of the thoughts and beliefs of ordinary women? there are freaks and zealots everywhere. the people you quoted are the freaks and zealots of feminism. but they are not representative of the average woman who considers herself a feminist. i'm a feminist wh*re...an oxymoron according to most feminazis. a true feminist believes simply in equality and the right to 'a choice and a voice' as they say.

as for the last quote, (which quite cleary says herself or himself, by the way) it is a fact that for a long time, a woman could not be raped or physically assaulted by her husband in the eyes of the law. men ruled the household, controlled the property and finances (regardless of who actually earned them) and 'owned' the wife and children. in many jurisdictions, these laws still exist. i will not apologise for believing that these archaic laws have no place in modern society - that men and women should be equal partners in marriage and that legislation should treat women as human beings, not property to be bought and sold.

real feminists are not man haters. and real feminists do not advocate for the abolition of marriage. if the essence of feminism is to allow women a choice and a voice, then it would be unacceptable for one group of women to drown out the voices and mock the choices of another group of women who choose to be homemakers. the feminazis you quoted are despised as much by real feminists, as they are by you guys.

Bango Cheito

05-07-07, 06:03

I don't think marriage should be abolished but I don't think it should be the norm in an enlightened society either. If you look at it from a statistical standpoint, marriage IS more dangerous to a woman than prostitution, so those ladies ARE starting with a rational idea (but taking it way too far).

In American society, the big problem is, Pandora's box of sexual freedom got opened in the 60s and 70s, and there really is no going back, but we are REALLY REALLY trying because right now we are riding this huge wave of nostalgia and paranoia. We're collectively like a typical angst-ridden teenager who is upset at his life and joins the skinheads :P

And ironically, in America we pretend to play "family values" but we really don't have a fucking clue just what they are, wouldn't know em if it hit us in the face.

But more ironically yet..... we are the most libertine and self-indulgent people on the face of the earth, we spare no effort in avoiding effort and pampering ourselves at every moment and at all costs in every conceivable way, from the ridiculously thick toilet paper we wipe our asses with to the fact that there is more than 1 car per PERSON in the USA (that's 40% of the world's TOTAL!), to heating our homes to 85 degrees during the winter and cooling them to 60 in the summer just because we can, to buying our kids so many toys at Xmas that they probably won't even get around to OPENING them all, to eating all the richest highest calorie foods the known universe has ever seen.....

We spoil ourselves in every conceivable way, yet we totally DEPRIVE ourselves of sex, which should be the #1 indulgence! We especially deprive ourselves of VARIETY in sex, which is also crazy because in any American city, even a small one, you can eat food from half the nations on Earth, probably ersatz and mediocre at best, but at least the idea is there. But as far as sex is concerned, it is deep in the American mentality that the less people you've fucked the BETTER A PERSON YOU ARE. And fucking more than one person in the same relationship is even more reprehensible.

And at the very bottom of the ladder are prostitutes and people who pay for their services!!! I also don't think there has ever been a country in history where prostitution has been driven more deeply underground than it is in America right now in the year 2007! In EVERY other country on Earth, there is some kind of quiet understanding reached where that sort of thing goes on and you can find it without much hard looking.

If what I'm saying sounds over the top to you (and I imagine it does to many people), I invite you to RTFF. There is NO better evidence for what I am talking about than THIS VERY FUCKING FORUM. Especially check the NYC section for the BIG shocker.

Npaul1

05-07-07, 16:22

Here's some of my fresh meat. I give the girls $150 to get them into my bed. Most have never P4P before. I am training them right.

Furiouz

05-07-07, 16:36

Yogin

05-08-07, 00:36

...a few quotes from radical lesbian feminazis are really representative...of ordinary women? ...The people you quoted are the freaks and zealots of feminism. But they are not representative of the average woman who considers herself a feminist....REAL feminists are not man haters...If the essence of feminism is to allow women a choice and a voice, then it would be unacceptable...to mock the choices of women who choose to be homemakers. The feminazis you quoted are despised as much by REAL feminists, as they are by you guys.

That's a laudable view, but radical feminism has sneaked into our laws, culture, customs, and institutions without most people noticing. Its assumptions & goals are everywhere. It is not content at equality & human rights. They want the upper hand, and to control & limit men's sexuality, wealth, thoughts, and rights (angry payback I guess). The graduate degree program I'm in openly demonizes men as they yammer mindlessly about "patriarchy", blaming men for everything & everything. If I said in class that "No I don't believe women in 2007 US are oppressed", I'd be run out of there in a blink. Were I to interview for a job teaching small children and asked why I want to and I replied "Because I love kids" they'd call the police on me as a child predator. 7 year old boys caught slapping classmates on the ass are branded "sexual abusers" in their permanent record. Young boys are overwhelmingly being diagnosed ADD and drugged into submission, courtesy of male phobic female dominated teachers & administrators. In Illinois if there's a divorce with kids, the mom gets a state-paid custody lawyer at her disposal until kids are 18, f*** the dad and his rights. Is it any wonder prostitution & customers are so relentlessly hounded & shamed here? Of course, for the latter much of the blame goes to the religious wackos too.

Rubber Nursey

05-08-07, 03:36

i know what you're saying, yogin and i agree with it to a degree - women are finally getting the rights they asked for, but it seems sometimes they're being granted at the expense of men's rights. i don't support that at all. like i said, i believe in equality.

but i don't entirely agree that these trends are a result of radical feminism. truth is, women still don't have a whole lot of clout in the political arena. yes, there are some very powerful feminazi lobby groups - but ultimately, men are still the ones making the laws in almost every corner of the globe. i think religion has a much stronger influence on public policy.

apologies to the americans amongst us, but the puritan/fundamentalist beliefs of the american government have played a huge part in this, particularly in the last few years. the bush administration seems incapable of separating church and state and their influence is spreading worldwide like a plague. dubya's little pet weasel, the australian prime minister, is one of the worst offenders, with much of our recent federal legislation emulating that of the us.

what we're seeing now, is a move away from women's rights. abortion laws are being overturned. access to contraception is being limited. in my state, they're even discussing new legislation to stop women choosing to deliver by c-section! australian women (if they're married) are being offered welfare payments to stay at home and pop out children. single parents, however, are being forced back into the workforce - a not so subtle hint that we should make honest women out of ourselves, get married and take advantage of the new family payments. what i see is an attempt by the government to return us all to our 'traditional' gender roles. married couples, men as breadwinners, women as baby factories. (and i see the barriers to men working in 'women's' roles, such as the childcare jobs you mentioned, as a direct result of this trend).

but more than anything, i think we are witnessing a return to the day when religion was used as a tool of the aristocracy, to control the masses. anything to do with sex, from prostitution to condom dispensers in school toilets, is being cracked down on. drugs, alcohol and smoking regulations are getting tighter. all forms of misbehaviour (ie. fun!) are being limited. and to make sure we don't complain about it all too loudly, they've even limited our right to public demonstration! i think a lot of the things you mentioned, like sexual assault charges against children and the doping of boys with 'add' are a symptom of this trend, not a result of feminism. i know it might seem that way, because men are the primary target, but traditionally men are the ones responsible for disrupting the 'social order'. they commit the [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) and child abuse, they get drunk and beat people up at nightclubs, they deal the drugs, they pimp the hookers...blah, blah, blah. they are the ones who challenge the authority of the bourgeois.

you should try telling your class that all of us are being oppressed in 2007.

Bango Cheito

05-08-07, 08:16

Now that last sentence was a stroke of genius, RN. I would kiss you but I just ate dinner :P

I really think over-the-top radical feminism and religious fundamentalism are the same thing anyways, they may differ on the very surface, but below that they are exactly the same thing, the same mentality.

DJ FourMoney

05-08-07, 08:24

Damn, sweet, big boobs and supportive?!?!?! *Books a flight to Warsaw* My friend in Warsaw is always telling me to come stay for a month.....

Insider information PM for details and Warsaw is NOT where you want to go.

DJ FourMoney

05-08-07, 08:33

Rubber Nursey

05-08-07, 11:27

I have no love for radical feminazis. Like I said, REAL feminists advocate for a woman's right to a choice and a voice. As an ex-hooker, the feminazis constantly try to drown out my voice and crap all over my choices, portraying me and all my hooker friends as pathetic victims of the patriarchy. Well they can stick their moral judgements up their Khyber. As can the religious right. I'm an intelligent, consenting adult - they're not the boss of me. :)

Now that last sentence was a stroke of genius, RN. I would kiss you but I just ate dinner :P

I really think over-the-top radical feminism and religious fundamentalism are the same thing anyways, they may differ on the very surface, but below that they are exactly the same thing, the same mentality.

Rubber Nursey

05-08-07, 12:21

Now that last sentence was a stroke of genius, RN. I would kiss you but I just ate dinner :P

Hey, are you worried about your garlic breath, or are you saying that you'd bring up your dinner if you kissed me? That's not very nice!!! :(

Kiwi 69

05-08-07, 17:09

But more ironically yet..... we are the most libertine and self-indulgent people on the face of the earth, we spare no effort in avoiding effort and pampering ourselves at every moment and at all costs in every conceivable way, from the ridiculously thick toilet paper we wipe our asses with to the fact that there is more than 1 car per PERSON in the USA (that's 40% of the world's TOTAL!), to heating our homes to 85 degrees during the winter and cooling them to 60 in the summer just because we can, to buying our kids so many toys at Xmas that they probably won't even get around to OPENING them all, to eating all the richest highest calorie foods the known universe has ever seen.....

We spoil ourselves in every conceivable way, yet we totally DEPRIVE ourselves of sex, which should be the #1 indulgence! We especially deprive ourselves of VARIETY in sex, which is also crazy because in any American city, even a small one, you can eat food from half the nations on Earth, probably ersatz and mediocre at best, but at least the idea is there. But as far as sex is concerned, it is deep in the American mentality that the less people you've fucked the BETTER A PERSON YOU ARE. And fucking more than one person in the same relationship is even more reprehensible.

And at the very bottom of the ladder are prostitutes and people who pay for their services!!! I also don't think there has ever been a country in history where prostitution has been driven more deeply underground than it is in America right now in the year 2007! In EVERY other country on Earth, there is some kind of quiet understanding reached where that sort of thing goes on and you can find it without much hard looking.

If what I'm saying sounds over the top to you (and I imagine it does to many people), I invite you to RTFF. There is NO better evidence for what I am talking about than THIS VERY FUCKING FORUM. Especially check the NYC section for the BIG shocker.You have summed it up perfectly!

Artisttyp

05-08-07, 21:33

i know who gives a hoot about tyra banks however i was watching her show yesterday because she had the founder of "girls gone wild" on it and a couple of springbreakers they followed around filiming in south padre island texas. one segment was tyra lashing out at a mother who attended spring break with her daughter and let her go topless for the video. the mother was a little ditzy but she seemed to relate very well with her daughter so i saw it as a plus. i dont understand why people pay $25 to buy a video of mainly tits anyway. i'd rather invest in gonzo porn or a nice german rep001 video .

the point where i got really pissed off was when tyra was showing the now sober girls the video of them getting drunk and acting stupid...as to protect them from future problems. the girls had a little competition going on amongst each other to see who could make out with the most guys then they would chart it with lipstick on the mirror in bar codes like a prisoner would on his cell wall. all the time they were talking about the competition they were saying how scared they got when they had a hard time getting guys to get off them and go home. they were scared things could get out of hand. i almost kicked the tv.
why the fuck do you think you can go pulling guys dicks then till them to get off or feel threatened when they come on to you more. it is a totally selfish game that can get guys in a shitload of trouble that was invited upon by these bitches. it just so happens these idiots are going to be in the work force sitting right next to you. college educated my ass. what a bunch of redneck no nothings. its scary spring break and those people are america.

Mmbmmb

05-08-07, 21:49

rubber nursey,

i understand that poverty can mean something completely different to people from usa and to inhabitants eg ethiopia. you’re right, writing "there are a multitude of reasons why people would choose prostitution and poverty is only one of them". i agree and i think it depends more on the individual case. it easy for me to say i wouldn’t work as a prostitute. having no children i can decide to eat only bread and to drink only water if i have no money for another food. definitely you have another perspective when you have to take care of the child. i can’t say what i would do if i desperately needed money and i had children to feed. luckily i’m not in this situation and i hope i’ll never be but i can understand people who faced such dilemma.

i wrote about people who aren’t in such situation. i gave an example of usa but i guess i should write something about my country. there’s also something wrong with polish society if i read in newspapers about "szlaufy". i don’t know exactly how to translate it from my language into english. i guess the best word is "hoses". it’s a word which describes young girls who like going to the local malls and to look there for "sponsorship". they look for a wealthy guys who will buy them something fashionable (cell phone, clothes, cosmetics, perfumes etc.) in exchange for sex in the car. they don’t take money for their service, only goods, so they don’t consider themselves as prostitutes. you wrote that "sex workers need no formal education or qualifications to get the job" but they need some more important features as eg mental maturity which lets to understand the influence of their work on their psyche. they also need at least basic knowledge about std and their bodies. a lot of gentlemen on the forum has attitude "i pay so i demand. it doesn’t matter that something hurts her and i didn’t took a shower. i paid 100$ so i can do with her what i want". i think you know the best how hard prostitution can be. and i know that it’s obvious for you but not necessary for other people. that’s why i’m astonished when people who aren’t in a desperate situation (eg student girls who need money for new clothes) choose this job, considering all disadvantages which are connected to prostitution. you have a mature psyche and you can cope with all problems of being a prostitute but not all of people are so lucky.

and one more thing, it’s ironical how situation in australia is similar to the polish one. after we joined to european union the economy is slowly improving but the prices "went mad" when people’s salary improved only a little bit. you wrote "to afford a house in a developed country, even if it's a dump in outback australia, many people are left with little or no money for food or clothes" well, in big cities of poland the average price of 1 sq m costs 2500$. so when i want to buy 50 sq m of a normal, but without any luxury, apartment (555 sq f? ) i have to pay 125 000 $. so you see that buying a place to live isn’t only a problem of developed countries. there’s also another similarity i see between poland and australia. our governments want to support women and family but they don’t do anything about it. in my country nobody will give such idea like condom dispensers in school toilets. contraceptives won’t be subsidized for the poorest women because the minister of health said "sex isn’t an illness". abortion is legal only in 3 cases: the pregnancy is a result of a [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), the pre-natal examination shows irreversible damage to the fetus or an incurable disease, the pregnancy constitutes a threat to the life of mother. officially there’s only about 150 abortions annually (and we have almost 9 million women in reproductive age) but it’s not a problem to have an abortion in a private clinic. and prostitution doesn’t exist in such good catholic country as poland;.) and even if it exists there’s no public discussion about it (to legalize it or not). unluckily it’s often connected to an organized crime and i guess that’s why it’s very dangerous for the sex workers. but the government doesn’t seem to see a problem. and there’s no dispute how to really help the women. it doesn’t matter if they are prostitutes or not. everyone talks about family’s values but nobody care about an average family’s problems.

editor's note: i certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please click here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Bango Cheito

05-09-07, 06:01

Hey, are you worried about your garlic breath, or are you saying that you'd bring up your dinner if you kissed me? That's not very nice!!! :(

It has to do with the garlic breath babe! :P It's an expression of respect and gratitude from my native land. 8) I seriously dig your posts and your point of view, trust me!

Bango Cheito

05-09-07, 06:05

Mmb, that phenomenon exists thoughout many other countries. It's very common. Here they are usually called 'kept women' if they have EVERYTHING paid (like even the apartment.) In Spanish they are called 'gasolineras'.

And down in Colombia those women are called 'prepagos' (prepaids) with the idea of like a cellular plan where you pay up front, you know what you get for how much you pay and there is less messing around. Also like in Poland abortion is still illegal in Colombia (athough a recent bill vastly widened the exceptions to the rule), but readily available in just about any clinic nonetheless.

I actually like the idea of the 'prepago' thing because it's better than a guy actually thinking some girl he's just fucking for cash is REALLY his gf, or some girl really thinking a guy loves her when he's just using her for sex. This was is more stictly quid pro quo, although personally if I'm going to pay for sex I want a professional to do the job!

Opebo

05-09-07, 09:49

Rubery Nursey is right about oppression - it is coming from the same source it always has: the owners. And they're using the same method they always have - religion. It is ridiculous to blame 'feminism', when the government is controlled by the religious. Feminists have little or no power - if their policy prescriptions are being implemented it is merely coincidental.

Bango Cieto is right as well - the US is an astonishingly sexless society. It is not unlike the Middle East. Alas here in Thailand you can see the Control coming - every year more venues and options close. I think of it like an African water hole, drying up, and we're the frogs. Pattaya is the last puddle, and when one day it is gone - and that day is coming very, very soon - we will be, in a very real sense, castrated, regardless of gender.

Furiouz

05-09-07, 20:02

Bango Cieto is right as well - the US is an astonishingly sexless society.

Wow. Why is that? Is it because sex is seen as commodity to be brokered away to the highest bidder versus natural act that is as necessary as food, water and music? Or is it because we DO live in a theocracy that is blinded by their own religious ideals while oppressing the will of the people they supposedly represent?

Hmmm..

Bango Cheito

05-12-07, 05:26

George90

05-12-07, 16:45

i think it's probably both reasons. We have an unholy alliance here between big multinationals and religious interests. So the bible thumper crowd tries to supress sexuality because of their convictions, and business interest try to suppress it because THEY ain't making any money off of it, and surpressing it allows them to subvert that energy into more rampant consumerism.

And now there is another tidbit to suppress sexuality. Researchers claim that oral sex can cause throat and other oral cancers. The link is that the HPV virus that causes cervical cancer can do the same damage to tissues in the mouth and throat from oral sex that it does to the cervix through vaginal sex.

What is left out is that there are 7,000 cases of fatal cervical cancer in the US each year out of 120-130 million women over 18 years old. The incidence of cervical cancer caused by HPV is very small and it is probably even smaller for oral cancer. But the 'vested interests' want to scare the US population into not doing oral sex.

George90

05-12-07, 17:13

I have a question for both the men and women who read this thread. I recently overheard two women in their late 20s talking about life. The topic drifted to jobs and one of them said rather strongly that she hates working for a woman boss or in an office that is all or predominantly women. She stated plainly that she wants a man in the office, preferably in charge.

Why? Because, in her opinion and experience, women are too bitchy, jealous, and fight too much for her liking. She said she needs a workplace that is not stressful and has found that women bosses create undue stress in their offices. She described women bosses who brought their personal lives into the office, who had screaming matches with other women in the office, who hurled biting personal insults at the staff, and behaved like they were all back in high school in cliques.

I don't know how many jobs this woman had, not that many if she is under 30. I have had female bosses and male bosses over the years. Both have been good and bad. I was not treated very differently by one sex or the other. I have witnessed some differential treatment and heard more complaints, from women, about the females bosses I had than the male bosses. But that was in the 80's and 90's.

I knew a female college athlete 3 years ago who said male coaches were far better than female coaches. Why? Because her male coaches didn't single out and pick on individual players. The team won or lost as a team, while her female coaches routinely singled out individual players to praise or blame for a loss or win. She said she was one of the best players so that when the team lost a game, the female coaches often blamed her for not playing her top game and causing the team to lose. Her male coaches never did that.

These statements are coming from modern women in the US. What do you think of that? Is there a big difference between male and female bosses? And does it say something about US society that it is women who seem to be complaining the loudest about female bosses?

Wet Nose

05-12-07, 17:18

I have heard the same thing from a girl who used to work for me too. She said she'd never work in a woman-dominated office and she was about 40+ when she said that.

I have had 1 crazy female boss and 1 awesome female boss. So I really can't say for sure.

Personally, I think it really shouldn't matter. Good bosses are good bosses no matter what. Management is a skill and people (men or women) can be trained to be good bosses. Nobody is born to be an awesome boss.

Piper1

05-12-07, 17:31

I have a question for both the men and women who read this thread. I recently overheard two women in their late 20s talking about life. The topic drifted to jobs and one of them said rather strongly that she hates working for a woman boss or in an office that is all or predominantly women. ... These statements are coming from modern women in the US. What do you think of that? Is there a big difference between male and female bosses? And does it say something about US society that it is women who seem to be complaining the loudest about female bosses?George, a large part of my work is researching and training workplace communication, including cultural and gender issues. You've hit the nail on the head. Depending on the studies, approx 90% of women prefer a male boss (and approx 70% of men prefer a male boss).

There are many reasons why women overwhelmingly prefer a male boss than a female boss. Here's a few:

Men are seen as more competitive than women, and that is generally true, but in reality, women are more competitive against each other in the workplace. Women tend to be jealous of other women's success - they are literally their own worst enemies.

Women managers generally feel the need to prove themselves more than male managers do (usually for good reason), so they sometimes overcompensate authoritarian behavior (or at least they are perceived as overcompensating. So as you mention, they are often seen as 'b*tches', especially by other women).

In general, women are driven more by emotion than men, so they tend to take workplace politics very personally, especially if it involves other women. Men are more likely to have their workplace political fights, then have a drink and a laugh at the bar together at the end of the week, then pick up the fight again on Monday morning.

There are plenty of exceptions to these generalizations, but the stats speak for themselves. Before anyone mentions I'm being politically incorrect, I'm just stating the facts, Ma'am.

DJ FourMoney

05-12-07, 22:57

George, a large part of my work is researching and training workplace communication, including cultural and gender issues. You've hit the nail on the head. Depending on the studies, approx 90% of women prefer a male boss (and approx 70% of men prefer a male boss).

There are many reasons why women overwhelmingly prefer a male boss than a female boss. Here's a few:

Men are seen as more competitive than women, and that is generally true, but in reality, women are more competitive against each other in the workplace. Women tend to be jealous of other women's success - they are literally their own worst enemies.

Women managers generally feel the need to prove themselves more than male managers do (usually for good reason), so they sometimes overcompensate authoritarian behavior (or at least they are perceived as overcompensating. So as you mention, they are often seen as 'b*tches', especially by other women).

In general, women are driven more by emotion than men, so they tend to take workplace politics very personally, especially if it involves other women. Men are more likely to have their workplace political fights, then have a drink and a laugh at the bar together at the end of the week, then pick up the fight again on Monday morning.

There are plenty of exceptions to these generalizations, but the stats speak for themselves. Before anyone mentions I'm being politically incorrect, I'm just stating the facts, Ma'am.

Those are the facts from what I have seen on the Wall Street Journal web site and Forbes web site.

This broad is about as FAR from politically correct as it can get in America without somebody shutting down the forum and exposing its users on Dateline.

PC is a joke and is unqiuely American...

Piper1

05-12-07, 23:56

Those are the facts from what I have seen on the Wall Street Journal web site and Forbes web site.

This broad is about as FAR from politically correct as it can get in America without somebody shutting down the forum and exposing its users on Dateline.

PC is a joke and is unqiuely American...DJ - It's not Rocket Science. This is my work, and it's easy. Stop reading Forbes and Wall Street Journal online, and stop watching Dateline. Most of it is BS, and it'll only make you feel inadequate. ;)

PC may be uniquely American, but I doubt it. I have many American friends, and I love 'em, but damn, some of them are uptight. I'm pretty much un-PC, but I usually have a good time with American girls when I visit the US. They seem to like laid-back guys.

Wait a minute. Maybe wimpy American guys are the problem here. Should we start a new thread?

Lomusa

05-13-07, 19:42

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/05/09/america/NA-GEN-US-Sperm-Donor-Child-Support.php

CBGBConnisur

05-14-07, 00:15

Bango Cheito

05-14-07, 08:47

AngloAmerican civilization is on its way down, anyone who thinks its not is in a fantasyland. Things like VTech shooting and increasing incidents of crime and sociopathic behavior are rooted in the breakdown of traditional family values. America and Britain today are both examples of societies that deviated from their core roots and as a result they will both eventually fall from their high perch. Why? Look at the young generation in both countries, they have no direction, their adults don't behave like adults. Both countries lack leaders, and future generations will have a much tougher existence. True human society needs a man at the helm, in the Anglophone world men have become lower than women, that is why you see the collapse of society, its based mostly on the collapse of the traditional family unit.

I partially agree with this and partially disagree...

I certainly DO see American society in big trouble right now, and it doesn't look like it's gonna get any better unless something drastic is done. I also agree that many people under 30 in this country are really fucking useless, lacking any sense of personal discipline, integrity or even ambition.

BUT, the collapse of the traditional family is happening all over the globe! Nor do I necessarily see this as a bad thing. I bet many people reading this will relate when I say that for a lot of us, a traditional family is a fucking PRISON! And let's face it, for women it can even be WORSE than it is for us.

I blame the social malaise up here on two things mainly: the car and the media, especially TV. This has gotten worse in recent years as more and more giant media conglomerates are taking over the entire industry and less and less people have more and more control over what we see and hear. Between the TV the internet and the car, one can wind up living a life where one has ZERO human contact whatsoever.

DJ FourMoney

05-14-07, 09:53

I partially agree with this and partially disagree...

I certainly DO see American society in big trouble right now, and it doesn't look like it's gonna get any better unless something drastic is done. I also agree that many people under 30 in this country are really fucking useless, lacking any sense of personal discipline, integrity or even ambition.

BUT, the collapse of the traditional family is happening all over the globe! Nor do I necessarily see this as a bad thing. I bet many people reading this will relate when I say that for a lot of us, a traditional family is a fucking PRISON! And let's face it, for women it can even be WORSE than it is for us.

I blame the social malaise up here on two things mainly: the car and the media, especially TV. This has gotten worse in recent years as more and more giant media conglomerates are taking over the entire industry and less and less people have more and more control over what we see and hear. Between the TV the internet and the car, one can wind up living a life where one has ZERO human contact whatsoever.

I don't know why your always banging on cars.

Most of my social life is surrounded by cars. I have friends into cars, we go racing with as many as 300-400 others that feel the same way. We talk about everything car related, including how to make them run clean, yet still remain fun to own and drive.

I didn't have a car for almost 3 years and I didn't like it.

I am a CAR person and it hasn't made me anti-social

Doctor_Skank

05-14-07, 11:14

AngloAmerican civilization is on its way down, anyone who thinks its not is in a fantasyland. Things like VTech shooting and increasing incidents of crime and sociopathic behavior are rooted in the breakdown of traditional family values. America and Britain today are both examples of societies that deviated from their core roots and as a result they will both eventually fall from their high perch. Why? Look at the young generation in both countries, they have no direction, their adults don't behave like adults. Both countries lack leaders, and future generations will have a much tougher existence. True human society needs a man at the helm, in the Anglophone world men have become lower than women, that is why you see the collapse of society, its based mostly on the collapse of the traditional family unit.

CBGB:

I hear you man, BUT... I haven't been to a MODERN country yet where it wasn't that way. I mean, you could move to Papua New Guinea and live in the jungle eating grubs and drinking rainwater... and even though somebody might eat you and wear your head around his neck as jewelry, thankfully you wouldn't get fat playing Madden on PS3 or feel the urge to shoot up a shopping mall.

China and India? Have nightmarish problems headed their way.

Europe? Having the same problems as the US... just manifested differently.

Russia? Will eat itself.

Modern society is getting crazier and crazier and there are a number of reasons.. beyond just the car and media and breakdown of the traditional family. Globalization has just accelerated the metamorphosis of society into something new. Personally I find it entertaining that some of the science fiction films of the 70's, 80's and 90's are turning out to be true.

Only a question of time before "the Running Man" is on television, we fly cars and replicate people like in "Blade Runner" or eat each other like in "Soylent Green".

Me, I wouldn't mind being the meat stuck in between a Raquel Welch and Ursula Andress replicant sandwich.

CBGBConnisur

05-14-07, 12:46

The big difference is that China is a police state, I have been there several times already, yes there are some extremely poor people there, but the country is clearly on an upward trajectory. There are many Chinese living in Australia, most come to the country because Australia is place that they can slack off and take it easy. Some of those who are more ambitious always keep telling me about the opportunities there. China has also been the reason why the US dollar has not collapsed outright but they are now getting rid of it as a result its soon going to be real expensive to travel outside of the us

wow australia is on easy street compared to the rest of the world sure its not perfect but i cant find a better place to live

shanghai looks like los angeles in blade runner

Hung Man 1808

05-14-07, 13:15

shanghai looks like los angeles in blade runner

No, that would be Jakarta. I had the most Blade Runner-ish moment there, and the camera chose that moment to die. Dark, rain, heat, people swarming everywhere etc etc.

No need to make hot replicate women in that place.. unlike what you would need in the US, as I get back to topic..

Latin Bound

05-14-07, 13:24

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/05/09/america/NA-GEN-US-Sperm-Donor-Child-Support.phpThis is absolutely INSANE.

Jelly Donut

05-14-07, 13:40

George90

05-14-07, 17:11

AngloAmerican civilization is on its way down, anyone who thinks its not is in a fantasyland. Things like VTech shooting and increasing incidents of crime and sociopathic behavior are rooted in the breakdown of traditional family values. America and Britain today are both examples of societies that deviated from their core roots and as a result they will both eventually fall from their high perch. Why? Look at the young generation in both countries, they have no direction, their adults don't behave like adults. Both countries lack leaders, and future generations will have a much tougher existence. True human society needs a man at the helm, in the Anglophone world men have become lower than women, that is why you see the collapse of society, its based mostly on the collapse of the traditional family unit.

I agree. But what scares the living daylights out of me is thinking about what type of 'civilization' is on its way up to replace the Anglo-American one. Nothing good! Certainly nothing better.

Chinese society? With its one child per woman law and its super pollution in urban areas? Middle-Eastern society? With its religious radicals and violence worship? Latin American? With the likes of Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, etc. on the rise? African society? Can anyone name a socially and economically progressive, forward moving country in Africa?

I think the world is heading towards a Dark Ages type of situation, where a small group of ultra rich elites living in ultra secure and insulated islands among masses controlled by ignorance and ultra conservative religious doctrine. Life will be very different in 30-40 years.

George90

05-14-07, 17:18

BUT, the collapse of the traditional family is happening all over the globe! Nor do I necessarily see this as a bad thing. I bet many people reading this will relate when I say that for a lot of us, a traditional family is a fucking PRISON! And let's face it, for women it can even be WORSE than it is for us.

I usually would not agree with such a statement. I believe that the traditional family unit, TWO parents of the opposite sex raising their own biological children, is the best.

However, I saw "60 Minutes" yesterday and the interview with Mitt Romney and his family. I did not see even one smile for even one nanosecond on the faces of any of his five children. That says something a lot of at least one traditional family.

Npaul1

05-14-07, 18:03

I did not see even one smile for even one nanosecond on the faces of any of his five children. That says something a lot of at least one traditional family.Says his kids are not retarded. Did you ever see an idiot that was not smiling? LOL

Would you rather have smiling, drooling kids from a man running for president?

Bango Cheito

05-14-07, 18:34

Yeah. Bikes are as much of a problem. :)

Read Steven Kern's "The Culture of Time and Space". Bikes only pre-date the automobile by a few years and it's all part of the same culture shift toward velocity. If you are out for a reflective walk in the woods and a mountain biker comes up quickly behind you may see my point...which I'm sure has something to do with American women in some way....

Well, you missed the point entirely. I was talking about the car as a vehicle of social isolation. But then again, probably half the world is missing the point.

If every car were actually full of people shooting the shit with each other shoulder to shoulder then it wouldn't be such a problem. It's not just the car per se it's the fact that each car is occupied only by the driver!!

Ezinho

05-15-07, 02:17

I also agree that many people under 30 in this country are really fucking useless, lacking any sense of personal discipline, integrity or even ambition.

As a member of the under-30 crowd myself (I'm going to call us the "useless generation") I couldn't agree with you more. I can't tell you how many guys I know aged 27, 28, 29 who still live at home with their parents, playing X-Box in their basement! I see them as kind of like Bud Bundy (from that TV show Married...with Children) but at least Bud got some tail every now and then! And a lot of these guys are college graduates, but since they recieved Humanities degrees, the only job they can do is working the register at Starbucks. And we're the future of this country? Jesus Christ, get me the hell outta here!

I don't know why your always banging on cars.
Yeah, I'm with Bango, I'm anti-car as well. Well no, not anti-car; actually, I like cars. I'm more anti-driving. That's one of the many reasons why I love to travel outside the U.S., so that I can take public transportation. Or just fucking walk somewhere! There's a reason why we're the fattest nation on earth, and it's because we don't get enough physical exercise as a country. Cars have a lot to do with that.

Besides, from all my time spent in South America, I learned that taking the bus/metro was a GREAT way to meet women; there's some primo pussy riding the bus in Brasil, trust me!

However, I saw "60 Minutes" yesterday and the interview with Mitt Romney and his family. I did not see even one smile for even one nanosecond on the faces of any of his five children. That says something a lot of at least one traditional family.
Yeah, I watched that too. But can you blame them for not smiling? They're Mormons! Poor guys have probably never gotten a BJ in their entire lives.

I'd be sulking too if I were them.

Jelly Donut

05-15-07, 05:56

Well, you missed the point entirely. I was talking about the car as a vehicle of social isolation. But then again, probably half the world is missing the point.

I understand that point. Everyone who drives and has a capacity for mild self-reflection ought to be able to understand that point on some level. You are not alone.

I can't stand driving, or maybe I just don't enjoy sharing the road, but I sure do love the car.

Mmbmmb

05-15-07, 16:15

Gentlemen,

I decided to write one more time because I found something what will cause a smile on your faces and what will give you a hope ;-)

Personally, I wouldn’t buy such service but I’ve heard about the real cases of such rental in China and India (it’s connected to a small amount of young women in comparison with a big number of young, unmarried men). So we never know what is waiting for us in the future. Maybe they will even propose same male models :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibje68pg_8Y

CBGBConnisur

05-15-07, 23:17

China has a police state a very successful one, I even know people who would admit that their system of government is probably the best one in a post 911 world, scary, but then again the Chinese rarely have worries about terrorism, terrorists target free and Democratic societies, police states can easily smash terrorist groups, look at Europe during World War 2.

Too many young people in America are becoming too dependent on their parents, I know people who hold full time jobs still living with their parents, but then again the USA has become a more dangerous place since I was a youth, a lot of things happen today I never thought about.

Even America at its peak during the 1950s was no paradise...but it was a model for order on the planet.

Piper1

05-15-07, 23:27

DJ FourMoney

05-16-07, 09:08

Sorry CBGB, but I have to be honest - you don't make a lot of sense.

I can see you want to go back to your Mom and Dad's family life in the 1950s. But it's not going to happen.

Besides, you're living in Australia now (a nice place to live), and as a school-teacher, you have a reasonably good job. Be happy.

I take issue with being dependent on my parents.

I live here because I want too and I have a plan. I can understand for some "freedom" and "privacy" are issues with living at home. But honestly, I'm not that deeply involved in American Dating Sweepsteaks so I really don't need to have my own dwelling at the moment. I'd also hate the idea of picking up "brownie" points with AW based on the fact I live in my own apartment and not at home.

I've said it before, in Europe, South America and Asian countries its not uncommon for children to be at home until marriage.

AW take exception with that and feel I lack independence because of the choice I have made in returning (I left 2 times before) home.

In a few months I'll be in a position to finally buy the land to build my house, yes you heard correctly, no tract homes for me!

And I'll be honored to enjoy my new home with a woman that didn't give a rat's ass about me living at home as long as we didn't live with my parents when she came to live with me.

European women just don't CARE.. Some do I'm sure but I haven't met any.

Jelly Donut

05-17-07, 22:18

Lookin for love in all the wrong places.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/17/fashion/17Dating.html?em&ex=1179547200&en=d5d76a6f64f44deb&ei=5087%0A

Jelly Donut

05-17-07, 22:29

While NOW focuses on helping pear-shaped women in the United States feel good about themselves, women are being shot in Pakistan for encouraging girls to take part in outdoor sports. "I think the conditions are exactly the same.." according to one feminist.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=13641&R=11373CEA6

Happy Bigamist

05-17-07, 23:22

Lookin for love in all the wrong places.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/17/fashion/17Dating.html?em&ex=1179547200&en=d5d76a6f64f44deb&ei=5087%0AThis was a very good article and men do like toys. And we do take our hobbies seriously. The best toy of all, the pussy, is strictly for fucking. Could you imagine if dykes got into the act? The only networking is group sex. With lots of toys.

Npaul1

05-20-07, 01:41

I had a girl from another town 45 minutes away, that I met thru the internet on one of these dating sites, seekingarrangement.com, and had sex with her about 4 times. The first time was with a condom. The other times we used spermacide. I only knew her first name and did not have an address for her. I had a cell phone number for her, and she had mine, because she called me a couple of times, wanting to get together for sex and some spending cash.

2 weeks ago I received an email, thru the website, from her that she was one month pregnant and I was the father, despite use of our spermicide. She said we must not have waited the 10 minutes like it required. (though I think we did). She asked me to pay for an abortion or else, if the kid was born it would be my responsibility to pay child support.

I called her and told her I would pay for an abortion. She said she had checked out the prices, wanted to get it quickly, and it would cost $350 because she needed anesthesia. I said I would pay the clinic directly so I could put it on a credit card, not her directly. I said we should keep in touch.

Now, a couple of weeks later, no calls from her. Her cell phone number is out of service. I tried to call her back to see if she had an appointment at the clinic.

I called my local abortion clinic and they said it would cost $440 with them.

I am wondering how to read into this correctly. I think it may have been a scam and when I did not say I would pay her the $350 directly, but pay it to the clinic, she prolly gave up on me. Wondering if I read her correctly. I guess I have no other way of doing anything else, since her phone is no longer in service and I did not know her address, work number etc.

I hope she was scamming me and not really pregnant, or else paid for the abortion herself.

Any thoughts?

CBGBConnisur

05-20-07, 10:27

I have come to the realization that humans are humans and will do stupid things and things that will annoy others.

Capt Ajax

05-21-07, 02:52

Npaul1 what the fuck were you thinking????? I use condoms at all times period. I've had a few ladies try to feed me some bullsh!t story that it's not necessary. A few times I've put the session on hold, driven out to the store to buy some condoms, return and begin where we left off.

Toul Kork

05-21-07, 04:56

It was a scam.

Rock Dog

05-23-07, 02:16

Happy Bigamist

05-26-07, 15:03

Capt Ajax

05-27-07, 17:20

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6693813.stm

Here is what happened to a rich British dude who forgot hookers are to fuck and forget. Unless you want to end up like this unfortunate dude, just use, abuse and lose them. They are not like us.

This applies to American women and all women who have moral shortcomings. Always remember why these women exist anbd never trust one longer than a fuck. That way you stay happy and alive.

HB are you telling us only hooker's commit these atrocious acts. I read recently about a psychologist who was married to a damn good divorce attorney and was in the middle of a messy divorce........The psychologist realized he was just about to lose everything, so he invited her down to the Caribbean Islands for a last pre-divorce vacation. To cut a long story short he poisoned her and cremated her body. He returned and gave her cremated ashes to her parents. No one could prove a thing and the divorce case was closed.

So, does this mean psychologists are killers? No, it only means there are a lot of fucked up people in this world.

Rubber Nursey

05-29-07, 03:10

The link provided by Happy Bigamist (who is right, by the way...I am nothing like him and for that, I'm grateful) led me to two other articles.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6698173.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6698753.stm

I know they don't have anything to do with American Women, but they do support the discussion we were having a short while ago. The world is taking a giant step backwards when it comes to sexual freedoms - particularly anything that threatens 'traditional' heterosexual relationships, such as homosexuality and prostitution. I don't believe feminism has much to do with this rapid erosion of our rights as sexual beings. It's all about religion.

Bango Cheito

05-29-07, 06:43

I really think that what you said is true, but it is also going the other way in many localities, the world is polarizing and getting ready for a BIG culture war.

Remember Brazil and Colombia recently legalized prostitution, and Ecuador may soon follow suit.

Rubber Nursey

05-29-07, 13:05

Bango: Without going into the whole legalisation vs decriminalisation debate (probably better suited to the Morality section), legalisation is as much of a backward step for sex worker rights and sexual freedoms as prohibition is. Legalisation is all about tighter controls and regulations and, more importantly, removing the power from the sex workers and putting it into the hands of the state.

More often than not, legalisation has abolitionist aims and objectives.

Happy Bigamist

05-29-07, 14:53

And try to justify it by digging up some bs Polish story about a cartoon and drawing attnetion to a gang of Western poofters egging on Moscow's finest and complaining when they get the response they wanted. Bashing a provocative political activist on the nose does not correspond to getting chopped up by a hooker and her brother.

Hookers are creatures of the night, things of physical pleasure. They have their place, like the rake and the hoe and the other staples of the garden shed. Find them, fuck them, pay them to leave and then forget them after you delouse yourself. That is the secret to a happy fuck.

Yogin

05-29-07, 16:33

....a psychologist who was married to a damn good divorce attorney and was in the middle of a messy divorce........The psychologist realized he was just about to lose everything, so he invited her down to the Caribbean Islands for a last pre-divorce vacation. To cut a long story short he poisoned her and cremated her body. He returned and gave her cremated ashes to her parents. No one could prove a thing and the divorce case was closed....

This "news item" has all the trappings & smell of an urban legend.

Bango Cheito

05-29-07, 20:48

Well not in THOSE two cases.

What happened in both countries was, they got new Constitutions, in 1988 and 1991 respectively, and THEN the Supreme courts noted that prohibiting prostitution would be unconstitutional under the new arrangements. So it's very much an individiual rights issue in both countries.

Of course some of the right-wing hardliners are trying to reverse this but they've found themselves shut out. And I can say from personal experience that it is NOT going away.

Of course, prostitution was perfectly legal in the USA until 1915, so continued vigilance is required.

Rubber Nursey

05-30-07, 01:38

Hookers are creatures of the night, things of physical pleasure. They have their place, like the rake and the hoe and the other staples of the garden shed. Find them, fuck them, pay them to leave and then forget them after you delouse yourself. That is the secret to a happy fuck.
If every hooker you've met so far has tried to kill you, it's not because they're hookers. It's because you're a complete asshole.

Happy Bigamist

05-30-07, 02:36

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6693813.stm

I posted this story. One guy responds with what is probably an urban legent, a few more make interesting comments and one specimen makes a series of posts to denigrate me and the victim of this deranged and greedy prostitute. Let's take a few quotes from the story to put them in the context of this thread and this site.

It was a case full of tales of sex and money.

For this case was very much about money. Jamila M'Barek and the late Earl of Shaftesbury met in 2002 as prostitute and client.

They began seeing each other as a couple and were married within nine months.

Two years later to the day she lured him to his death, afraid that their impending divorce would cut her out of his multi-million-pound will.
In early November 2004 the earl arrived on the Cote D'Azur from England.

The following day he went to see his wife at a flat he had given her in Cannes. He was never seen alive again
The case has fascinated many. It has had sex, money, murder - and revealed the clash between two very different worlds.
:::::::::::::::::::

Prostitutes and their families are not like the rest of us. Sup with a long spoon. Find them, fuck them, forget them. Don't get involved with them at all. They are damaged, dangerous goods.

The same goes for heroin addicts, depressives, fatties and any other defectives. It takes a special kind of woman to drop her panties to all comers. No one - pimps, fellow hustlers - has respect for them or trusts them. Why should you?

Capt Ajax

05-30-07, 13:07

This "news item" has all the trappings & smell of an urban legend.

This really happened because the lawyer who was killed by her husband was representing the wife of a casual friend of mine in their own divorce case. He described this woman as very ruthless in the court room. Unfortunately her psychologist husband figured he had a lot more to lose in a divorce case and decided he would do her in first.

Npaul1

05-30-07, 14:40

I remember way back when I was 22 or 23 years old. some girl I'd been boffing tried to run the same game on me. I'ts an old scam, one of the oldest. But it often works because the guy gets so scared initially that he doesn't see the scam until it's too late.

RockApparently it was not a scam. The girl called me yesterday and has an appointment at the abortion clinic for Saturday. So I went to the clinic and paid $440 to the clinic for it.

I had been bonking her off and on for a couple of months, and we had been using a spermacide. She said she must not have put it in for the full 10 minutes before we went at it... ???

Just wondering if I should have offered to pay half? Or would that be tacky to try to negotiate the bill?

Selfishly, I am glad I don't have to pay for child support for 18 years, like some dads. It was her decision to get the abortion, and the man has no choice in the matter anyway, so the moral decision was up to her. I am over twice her age, so I am prolly too old to be a good daddy again.

Bango Cheito

05-30-07, 20:51

Npaul consider yourself lucky you got off so easy. Like you said, you could have been paying through the nose for YEARS.

Why is this article posted in here anyways? It belongs in the "Morality" section. I would ask that people please respond to it there after this post if they want to continue the discussion.

It DOES take a different kind of girl to "drop her pants for all comers", but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Your little theory is kinda short on logic. Plenty of prostitutes have never killed anyone, and plenty of killers have never had sex for money. You'd have to prove POSITIVELY that the fact that she was a prostitute was more than a mere coincidence in order for your argument to have any weight.

It certainly goes against 100% of my personal experience with WG's. My personal dealings with them has actually INCREASED my respect for them.

Mmbmmb

05-30-07, 21:36

Rubber Nursey,

The link you gave to the article about Poland and Teletubbies is unfortunately a proof for what I wrote before that “everyone talks about family’s values but nobody care about an average family’s problems” in my country. Through a few days Poland has entertainment on TV. Most people laugh at Mrs Sowinska and they wonder what another idiotic problems our politicians will create in the future. Maybe it is some kind of method, to focus people’s attention on moronic actions of our spokesperson for children's rights then rather on the real problems, political and social ones. One should also remember that Mrs Sowinska belongs to “League of Polish Families”, the political, conservative party which promoted her for the position of the spokesperson. She’s well know in Poland of her other controversial actions, for example a letter to the Pope Benedict XVI. She was writing about the lay and masonic Polish media which declared the war on “Church, its shepards and God’s people”. I guess I haven’t to write anything more about her.

Personally I’ve never thought that Tinky Winky who has a woman's handbag can be a gay :-), neither anyone of my friends. And I think that Polish children who are 3 or 4 don’t even know what it is gay but thanks to Mrs Sowinska they will know it for sure :-)

The world is taking a giant step backwards when it comes to sexual freedoms - particularly anything that threatens 'traditional' heterosexual relationships, such as homosexuality and prostitution.Ironically Poland isn’t a good proof for your thesis. Prostitution and homosexuality were, are and will be present in my country. The article about Teletubbies is rather a proof for hypocrisy. I’ll give you another example. A son of my acquaintances has a girlfriend. She has a child from her previous relationship. They don’t want to accept the girl because a childless woman is always better as a daughter-in-law. I don’t know her but for some reasons this guy loves her so probably she’s nice. Anyway it isn’t about her, it’s about these people’s attitude that a girl with child is worse because one can’t hide it. For them it would be better if she was a hooker because you can hide this fact and it’s hard to hide the child. Do you understand what I mean? Mrs Swinska won’t say to the cameras that she doesn’t accept gays. Instead of it she claims that she wants to protect innocent children from Masonry, homosexuality, atheists and all kind of heretics.

I think it’s not about religion, and for sure not about feminism. It just depends on someone’s character. There are people who think that they have monopoly for the truth.

Just wondering if I should have offered to pay half? Or would that be tacky to try to negotiate the bill?Well, Npaul1 , if you talk about the responsibility I can give you only one advice. Forget about the money and just be happy that you won’t pay for the child support. Imagine what would be if she gave birth to twins ;-) Next time think about responsibility a little earlier or at least ask about her last name and address. A propos the moral decisions: if you had a choice, would you make another decision about baby? Hmm, anyway I think you have more luck then you could expect

Prostitutes and their families are not like the rest of usWhat does it mean? That they don’t pay for sex? They have no feelings? That they like money more then average John or Jane? :-) Please, tell me, I’d like to really know why they are different from the “rest of us”.

No one - pimps, fellow hustlers - has respect for them or trusts them. Why should you? Because you are a human being who respects people and who expects the same from the others?

And if you write about trust, don’t people kill each other for money, power or sometimes just for fun? Should I be afraid to go to my university after I watched the news from VA? You can’t predict the life.

Besides you can’t really know what happened between M'Barek and her husband. “Nicholas Ashley-Cooper said his father was a "gentle soul" who descended into "alcohol and depression".” So he wasn’t the ideal husband, what of course doesn’t justify the murder. And journalists usually look for bloody, tragic news because people like to read about them. Would someone notice the case if he wasn’t a rich earl?

But as always I’m an optimist. For sure Mrs M’Barek will write a book about her life full of money, sex and earls. And she will make more money on it then she could get from her lovers. It should be enough for retirement on the Cote D'Azur.

Happy Bigamist

05-31-07, 08:59

Although in some ways, the killer hooker story does not belong in this thread, in another way it does. It is not about whether hooking is right or wrong, it is about hookers who kill.

Let's not fool ourselves. Many posters here get conned into mistaking a paid fuck for a GFE and we have threads on all kinds of women here. If she is much younger that you, she is most likely in love with your wallet. If she is a hooker, or someone else with no conept of the work ethic, watch your back. Better still, dump her.

Paul McCartney, formerly of The Beatles and Wings, was caught big time by a one legged hooker. Then we have that old Texas dude who got snared by the ex Playboy bunny. Who knows how many love lorn losers in Thailand, Brazil, Colombia, the Philippines etc have been done in by the hooker and her associates?

Hookers have no concept of money because all they do is spread their legs for dough. Not for them the 10 hour grind. They regard you as a cash register. And if the cash register can be kidnapped and disemboweled to empty it, all the better.

I could have posted other links here like the Texas women up for murder suiciding her kids. But I thought this one was more relevant. Whether in the good ole US of A or anywhere else, alaways stay on the right side of the tracks. Anyway, my 2 cetabos. Take the floor.

Npaul1

05-31-07, 18:48

Well, Npaul1,

If you talk about the responsibility I can give you only one advice. Forget about the money and just be happy that you won’t pay for the child support. Imagine what would be if she gave birth to twins ;-) Next time think about responsibility a little earlier or at least ask about her last name and address. A propos the moral decisions: if you had a choice, would you make another decision about baby? Hmm, anyway I think you have more luck then you could expect.There is no point in speculating on moral questions which are totally beyond our control. Women have the law and right to decide when to abort, men have nothing to say about it. I do not like that, but that is the law since Row v. Wade.

If you do not like that, write your Congressman/women and they will laugh at you.

Rubber Nursey

06-01-07, 03:03

Hookers have no concept of money because all they do is spread their legs for dough. Not for them the 10 hour grind.
Ummm....hello? The thing that makes hookers different from 'regular' people who have sex, is that they do it as a means of earning income. The specifics of the job description are completely irrelevant - they are still gainfully employed. Whether a person is 'spreading their legs for dough' or flipping burgers in Maccas, they're out there earning a living. By your logic, 'regular' women who stay at home and look after the kids while the hubby goes to work and earns the money, must be another step below sex workers.

This has nothing to do with being a hooker. What you're talking about are golddiggers. Freeloaders. People who want to live the high life at someone else's expense.

You make it sound like men are just innocent bystanders in all this - that these money-hungry women are attacking them like vampires and sucking them dry. Obviously you've never seen a wealthy man in action. My best friend, who has never been a hooker, works in a place wealthy men frequent. Even though she is happily married with a couple of kids, EVERY WEEK she gets offered jewellery, cars, weekends away on tropical islands...they assume because she's working (not staying at home with the kids) that her husband is not a huge earner and she'll jump at the opportunity to run off and live like a princess. And if they're doing it to her - a married woman in her thirties with two children - then it's likely they're doing it to any woman they take a fancy to.

IF men are more likely to find themselves in this situation with a hooker than a regular woman, it's probably only because they feel more comfortable broaching the subject with a hooker. A regular woman might take offense at being offered money or goods for sex - a hooker won't. A lot of men also think a hooker needs to be 'rescued' and it makes them feel good to play Knight in Shining Armour....or they straight out think that hookers are sad, pathetic victims who can be bought and sold. I've had clients flash money in my face with such an air of superiority and arrogance that it's taken all my strength not to slap them.

Whether the girl is a hooker or a regular woman, I don't condone screwing someone over to get hold of their money. But I don't see men as innocent victims in all this. These guys are chasing women, often way out of their league, and offering them the world. They shouldn't be surprised when some women try to take it.

Rubber Nursey

06-01-07, 03:19

Bango, Mmbmmb - I'll move this discussion to the Morality section.
I figured Happy Bigamist's discussion was better suited to this thread, though - the fact that he has no respect for other human beings made his post look like a morality issue, but I think it's more about golddiggers, etc, which is definitely an AW subject.

Bango Cheito

06-01-07, 06:51

Cool.

Let me just say HB that you have NO FUCKING IDEA how hard it is to fuck for a living. It's one of the harder jobs on Earth. It's hard on you physically AND emotionally.

What's an easy job? In NYC it's the cocksucker who gets paid $60k a year just to open and close the subway doors. Or building doormen. Make no mistake about it. WGs EARN their money.

I think this issue does have more of an ethical component to it and for that reason belongs in the Morality section.

Capt Ajax

06-01-07, 12:19

BC I completely agree with your comments. These ladies have to drop their pants for guys that look like shit......Guys who are fat/obese, unclean, smelly asses, bad breath, toothless idiots, mental nut cases etc you all get my drift. These ladies have my respect for putting up with all this crap.

Cool.

Let me just say HB that you have NO FUCKING IDEA how hard it is to fuck for a living. It's one of the harder jobs on Earth. It's hard on you physically AND emotionally.

What's an easy job? In NYC it's the cocksucker who gets paid $60k a year just to open and close the subway doors. Or building doormen. Make no mistake about it. WGs EARN their money.

I think this issue does have more of an ethical component to it and for that reason belongs in the Morality section.

Npaul1

06-01-07, 13:48

IF men are more likely to find themselves in this situation with a hooker than a regular woman, it's probably only because they feel more comfortable broaching the subject with a hooker. ...Most hookers are easier to fuck than non-hookers. I approached a girl at the YMCA gym last week and she mentioned she was a rower and that it was all in the legs. I later complimented her on how nice legs she had. She complained to the managment and they said I had "crossed the line" and threatened to cancel my membership! How can you even flirt with a non-hooker any more?

Plus, the damn YMCA now is run by a bunch of FEMINISTS! Yet they solicit contributions by claiming they are a religious organization that helps young inner city black boys (these are their poster boys)

Now if she works as a waitress in a restaurant or bar, then her tips depend on how jovial she gets you and flirting is cool! You could make some compliment about how good her legs are, and it would be fine.

But if the woman is in a salaried job, not for tips, they get rights and think they are being sexually harassed!

Super Brko

06-03-07, 14:26

Reason why aw suck is dworkins and scum manifestos of the world were droped like nuclear cloud on the Hiroshima and women said "you go grrrrlllllllllll". They destroyed family unit, created millions fatherless woman zombies who want equality without responsibility, created child support debt prisoners against constitution etc ad nauseam.

I don't speak to you anymore. And I know you find this unthinkable. In your mind, what young single guy wouldn't leap at the invitation to be a bit player in the drama that is your life, in which you're the lead actress? After all, you're young, female, attractive, sexually nubile, maybe even single. Aren't all guys supposed to leap at that? Yet, I refuse to speak to you.

What you're seeing is the pinnacle in the evolution of an attitude created and reinforced by thousands of minor transgressions. Each a grain of sand in size, but so numerous, they collectively create a mountain.

I don't speak to you because I've tried before. I've been genuinely interested in your life. Yet, when I ask questions in an attempt to build a bridge of friendship between us, to seek a common ground upon which we can both meet, I receive a glassy-eyed look as if I'm bothering you. As if, deep inside, you're screaming "Why are you bothering me, won't you please shut up and leave? " Eventually, I learned that the common ground is neither there, nor is a place upon which I wish to walk. So, I quit building bridges.

I don't speak to you because I've tried before. I've tried to develop interests in the things that interest you. No matter how insipid, trivial, or dull I find the stories of your friends I've never met, of people I do not know, of things on TV that have no interest in watching, I try to make the effort to learn about these things. Because what interests you is a part of who you are, and if you are going to matter to me, I'd like to see what you like. Exposure to new things is part of growing as a person, and each person can learn from the other. A cross-pollenization of ideas. However, you never seem to be interested in my life. You behave as if my life is a bother to you. You're not interested in finding out who I am. I'm supposed to be off in the shadows, only to step into the limelight when the central drama needs me to support you. When my time has passed, it's back into the shadows I go, replaced with someone else. So, I quit trying to learn from you. After all, trying to drive the wrong way down a one-way street is as foolish as the experience is nerve-wracking.

I don't speak to you anymore because you're no different than anyone else. You're not unique anymore. There's nothing special about you. The colors may vary, but you dress the same as everyone else. The names and faces of the other bit-actors and actresses in the central drama that is your life may be different, but the plots the same. You're no different than a low-budget porno movie. Any novelty you may have is purely superficial, the substance is the same. Forgive me if I leave early, I've seen this movie before, I know how it ends, and it's never worth the price of admission.

So, I refuse to speak to you anymore. It doesn't surprise me why you do not understand why I do not speak to you, though it does astonish me that you find my silence odd. Perhaps, you mistake the noise that emanates from you for my voice. Perhaps it's because you're so busy communicating you never bother to listen for a response. What ever the underlying cause for your lack of comprehension, one thing remains clear, what you have to say simply does not matter to me anymore. Written by Voodoojock read read read and think go to http: //awomanagainstfeminism. ********.com/ http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum//index.php? Act=idx read, think scrutinize

Yogin

06-06-07, 17:06

the previous poster made a rambling reference to the scum manifesto. it was written by valerie solanas, who attempted to murder andy warhol. scum=society for cutting up men. here are some lovely excerpts, written 40 years ago:

quotations from the scum manifesto
solanas advocating the elimination of males:

"life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male sex."
assertion that males are inherently inferior to females:

"retaining the male has not even the dubious purpose of reproduction. the male is a biological accident: the y(male) gene is an incomplete x(female) gene, that is, has an incomplete set of chromosomes. in other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. to be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples."
on the role of the individual in society:

"a true community consists of individuals - not mere species members, not couples - respecting each other's individuality and privacy, at the same time interacting with each other mentally and emotionally - free spirits in free relation to each other and co-operating with each other to achieve common ends. traditionalists say the basic unit of "society" is the family; "hippies" say the tribe; no-one says the individual."
describing her vision of a coming revolution:

"scum will keep on destroying, looting, fucking-up and killing until the money-work system no longer exists and automation is completely instituted or until enough women co-operate with scum to make violence unnecessary to achieve these goals."
"the sick, irrational men, those who attempt to defend themselves against their disgustingness, when they see scum barreling down on them, will cling in terror to big mama with her big bouncy boobies, but boobies won't protect them against scum; big mama will be clinging to big daddy, who will be in the corner shitting in his forceful, dynamic pants. men who are rational, however, won't kick or struggle or raise a distressing fuss, but will just sit back, relax, enjoy the show and ride the waves to their demise."

(also: andrea dworkin is a feminist who believes that all men are [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127), and that heterosexual sex is by definition [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123).)

Misinformation

06-09-07, 10:59

The poster below is a little confused. Yes the rich get richer. Bill Gates took his fathers $100M and turned it into $50B. Same like you had $100 and turned it into $50K

If you want to be sucessful with women in the US you have to go out and get them. Trust me. Watch 'Leave it to Beaver'. This is 50 years ago. The man is working at a stupid job where he would never have to wear a suit today. Happy woman home waiting. Ward Cleaver wants to pay the boys 50 cents each to paint the trash cans but they goof off and the wife paints them herself and spends $5 on a hat. Mrs. Cleaver serves her family 24/7 and is sooooo happy to get a cheap hat. OK honey, you painted the garbage cans, you can have the hat.

Imagine this today?

Imagine your two sons were supposed to paint your garbage cans but instead they went out to play and your wife painted them? Then she went and bought a $20 hat without your permission?

Wet Nose

06-10-07, 06:11

Hey all,

Angry Harry (popular men's blog) needs your support!

h t t p://w w w.bloggerschoiceawards.com/categories/19

Join and vote today - let's put down the feminists competing blog!

Digital Curry

06-10-07, 08:22

The poster below is a little confused. Yes the rich get richer. Bill Gates took his fathers $100M and turned it into $50B. Same like you had $100 and turned it into $50K

Though it is the same ratio mathematically, turning $100M into $50B
IS NOT the same as you turning $100 into $50K. Because tax law and other financial structure in the USA heavily favor the wealthy to remain and keep and grow there wealth

That Asshole

06-11-07, 04:42

*******************************************
"Stopping Violence Against Women..."
*******************************************

Recently my average western town (could be anywhere in N. America, Europe, Australia, UK) hosted a conference and expose about "Stopping Violence Against Women". This seemed rather ridiculous to me for the following reasons:

*************************************
.........sorry, who is violated?
*************************************

The most absolutely exceeding majority of violence in this world is committed against "men". It is nearly exclusively always "men" who get bashed, smashed, beaten, bullied, violated on a daily basis, everywhere. Starting at school, then at work, on the street, in the bars, clubs and by police. And of course there is the contionuous violence against men on the battlefields of war, by other men.

***********************************
.....being peaceful, etc.
***********************************

Compared to this absolutely massive amount of violence, the minuscule tiny portion that is committed against women is ridiculously little. Insignificant, even not worth to mention. It is also fair to say that generally those men who are sensible, respectful and walk away from fights get much less hurt and beaten. Those who are aggresive in nature, are assertive, loud, violent and non-sensible themselves get most of the beating. Why should then we use different measures for women?

*********************************
...equal share, anyone.....?
*********************************

Especially when they (the women) are concurrently trying to advocate "equality" at the same time. In that case it is fair to mention that they should consider to "equally suffer their fair share" of violence too - as at least 51% of the population being women - and presently all violence that committed specifically against women would not amount to more then 1% of the total. It is so obvious, we see it every day. You do too.

For all fairness, please let the women be "equal" at last and take some of our burden away by suffering 51% of the total violence in the world as their share in the population would dictate. That way the men will be 50% less subjected to the total of everyday violence which the men suffer at present at least 99% of the time (while consisting only 49% or less of the population).

****************************************
.....the sharpest weapon.....
****************************************

So, this "violence against women" issue is clearly no more than some more mindless feminine propaganda, aiming to stupify the population even more with still another unfounded argument. At worst it is another tool to expand "violence against men" by urging them to take a violent stance against men who are "accused" of violence against women.

I say "accused" because just by having this finger pointed, any man can be blacklisted by their society, without the need for actual proof. Even if an accusation proves false, the stigma stays and the damage to the man stays unchangeable by losing status, legal costs and even losing jobs originating in a simple false, malicious accusation. It's the perfectly sharpened weapon against any man. The proof you see every day.

Why on earth are men partners in this "crime against other men" by supporting totally silly and unfounded issues such as the above ("propaganda to stop violence against women")?

Are we so deprived by now that we have no other ways to get laid than by betraying each other (and thereby our very selves) and convey our total commitment to all kinds of unnatural and stupid femine issues (breast cancer research, childrens charities, child abuse craze being the others and so on and on) ?

************************************
...being a man.... or puppet...?
************************************

Gentlemen, how do you feel about yourselves? Are you a man? Or a puppet of some femine-biased, man-hating rulers?

Do you ever do a bit of thinking like you really should (because you are a man)? What does make you a man, if you paint yourself up like women do, pose in front of the mirror daily like women do .......or the fact that you subscribe to issues about men's freedom and rights (and not to issues about women's mindless ravings)?

******************************
...in the bin.....
******************************

So, next time they hold seminars about the above mindless issue, you will know where their stupid leaflets best go. Straight to the rubbish bin. What an appaling idea this whole thing is.....

Are there any "men" reading this forum who do not act like women? I wonder....Are there any left in America?

But of course. We have all been silly some time. Time to wake up though.....

********************************
The "evil" 25.......
********************************

BTW there also was a list of photos (25 in total) of the "lowlife" men accused in our area with some sort of assault against a woman. (What exactly the "assault" was not detailed. Could be anything, taking "no for a yes", a touch or even just saying "b*tch). All that they could come up was 25 gentlemen for some vague offences against the majority (51%+) of the population. Now, if we took photos of those people who assaulted men (the smaller 49% of citizens) in the same period, would be the whole wall surface of the town-hall be enough to hold the photos???

***********************************
.......yes, they are right, but...
***********************************

Let's not be hypocrits. We only go along with them because they are strong. Stronger than ever before. And the strong is always right in this world. The opposition simply doesn't get a say. Why do we have to suffer this discrimination every day in modern American (western) society, and how much longer?

So, the next time you are about to hit another man, think again. Who are you actually hitting? Are you giving another blow to your own already battered status? Are you not smashing yourself to stupid?

*************************
...No To Violence Against Men...
*************************

So, I say:

"No to violence against men first. After then we deal with the other creatures."

But you already knew all this, for sure..........

Yogin

06-11-07, 21:16

In Georgia a 17 year old honor student & star athlete was sentenced to 10 years of prison without chance of parole for having consensual oral sex with a 15 year old girl. She initiated giving him a BJ! They called it "aggravated child molestation".

This is the result of Georgia getting tough on "sexual predators". Even after prison he'll have to register for life as one, wherever he goes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16862643/

Bango Cheito

06-12-07, 04:51

Like we have been saying, its RELIGION you have to watch out for, not feminism!

Lazy Lover

06-12-07, 19:10

BC I completely agree with your comments. These ladies have to drop their pants for guys that look like shit......Guys who are fat/obese, unclean, smelly asses, bad breath, toothless idiots, mental nut cases etc you all get my drift. These ladies have my respect for putting up with all this crap.So agree with you. Some mongers give charming fellows like myself a bad rep. Fortunately I am nice enough to the gals that they tend to REALLY fuck my brains out as they want to be done likewise.

As for the rant on feminism. Bull**** baby. You've had too much sex and not enough conversations with women methinks.

That Asshole

06-16-07, 12:24

Like we have been saying, its RELIGION you have to watch out for, not feminism!

Hi Bro,
Please think about this:
Everybody has a "religion" and nobody has "no religion".

Religion is a set of things that you belive in. Everybody believes in something, even if those beliefs do not have space for a "supernatural being". What you make of the world, what different things and concepts mean to you are "Mr Bango's own religion".

When several people agree on certain things and sacrifice some of their own ideas for a common purpose is the situation when a so called "formal religion" is created. However, it is still just a belief and nothing more.

Therefore "catolicism" is a religion and so is "communism" and "feminism", nothing more than a set of ideas that someone either accepts or not. We (well, some of us) cannot accept "feminism" simply because it's ideals are not supportive for us, who we "believe to be" and who "we want to be".

Either way, you still have a "religion" and in fact your ideas might even encompass several so called "religions". Sorry, the ideals of feminism are some that I cannot accept, simply because they are stupid and insulting.

So, we do not support "feminism" and I am greatly surprised why any men do. Obviously not for any reason than to get laid in a very lowly, subservient way.

I think that "men" shouldn't be like that.

TA

Bango Cheito

06-16-07, 16:32

George90

06-16-07, 21:54

Allright, Mr. Semantics, it's religious DOGMA that's anti-sexual in nature that's the problem.

But it's not any form of feminism. Mainstream feminism is NO threat to a guy getting laid, trust me. And the more hardcore kinds everybody keeps throwing examples of on here are very rare in today's society.

People keep turning this into a women vs men thing, when the issue really is that American CULTURE AS A WHOLE has gone down the toilet.

That US culture as a whole is going down the toilet does NOT mean that feminism is not hurting men!

There is no more 'mainstream' feminism. It died in the late 60's / early 70's. The feminist movement was hi-jacked decades ago by the hardcore left-wing.
That hardcore movement is now into man-bashing and male oppression. They, through the public school system, have succeeded in f'ing up an entire generation of men by transforming normal boyhood behavior into a desease called ADHD and doping up millions of boys for their entire childhood.

Frankly, we need to be on the lookout for both hardcore feminism AND extreme religious dogma.

Yogin

06-16-07, 23:54

..there is no more 'mainstream' feminism...died in the late 60's / early 70's...the movement is now into male oppression...through the public school system, have succeeded in f'ing up an entire generation of men by transforming normal boyhood behavior into a desease called adhd and doping up millions of boys...

totally agree. radical feminism over the last 30 years has insidiously crept into the mainstream "thought" of all education, psychology, and the social sciences, resulting in institutionalized male oppression codified into law & public policy. it is the most intellectually vacuous & bankrupt movement to appear in the modern era. read "the myth of male power". the current prevailing dogma is that all gender roles are learned, maleness is to be feared & quashed at every turn, and that all males are [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) past present or future. any poor sap who goes along with feminist bs just wants to get laid in good ol' sex prison usa.

Jelly Donut

06-17-07, 00:36

Of course, if someone gave me the option of 30k which I could spend on a few months vacation in Thailand vs. some more practical goal, I would be torn, too.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/07/AR2007060701898.html

Capt Ajax

06-20-07, 14:40

I cannot believe some men will fall for this BS. Unfortunately women like this have thousands of male suitors lined up as far as the eye can see.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ers/356140662.html

Young female seeking benefactor - w4m - 22
Reply to: pers-356140662@craigslist.org
Date: 2007-06-20, 8:34AM EDT

I am a 22 year old girl seeking a generous man to help me finacially in exchange for companionship, drinks, dinner, shopping etc..
I am looking for a gentleman! Someone who will treat me with kindness and respect. No weirdos please! You must be somewhat fit, attractive and very kind.

I have a very positive attitude, I like to smile and laugh!
I love going to local taverns and having drinks and dinner.
I work 7am-5pm and am available anytime after that =)
Ideally I'd like to meet once or twice a week.

If interested please send a very detailed email (including a photo. i will not respond to emails without a photo).

CBGBConnisur

06-21-07, 11:35

Go to Thailand... and don't come back. The way the global economy is going you really do not have to live in the US to live well. Look at the way the US Dollar is crumbling on international markets. Europeans are beginning to flood the US because it is becoming a cheap destination for them. It used to be the other way around in the past. Or stay in the US, assuming you have friends and family that you are still attached to. There are a lot of nice women around the world, but if you look at their logic, it would not be difficult for them to Americanize once they are in the USA.

Rubber Nursey

06-21-07, 15:30

George90

06-21-07, 18:29

Astor Bryan,

So she wants a Sugar Daddy...isn't she doing the right thing by openly asking for one, rather than stringing some rich shmuck along? You guys complain that women play games and manipulate men, but you're annoyed by an ad like this as well. She's being honest about what she wants and the men who reply to this ad will know exactly what to expect from the relationship. Why is that a bad thing?

RN,

I agree with you to the extent that it is MUCH better to be honest and upfront about ones desires than to be dishonest and manipulate someone into doing something they would not do if they had full information. I am not very annoyed by that ad.

What does annoy me is the attitude that a certain amount of money is DESERVED due soley to one's appearance. I am not sure if this particular ad does that, but I am offended that in addition to the money she wants respect and kindness adn for him to be fit and attractive. SHE is the prostitute looking for a john! She has no business telling the world who is worthy of paying her and who is not! The ARROGANCE of it all bothers me. I hope she gets a man who treats her like the commodity she is displaying herself as.

Bango Cheito

06-21-07, 19:07

Methinks she doth expect too much as well.

What's incredible is there probably are some saps out there who will take her up!
I've seen so many examples of idiots here in NYC who pay so much for SO little it wouldn't surprise me.

Striker

06-22-07, 06:47

While this forum tends to be overly harsh, the essence of the complaints ring clearly a bell.

IMH experience, AW invariably have extraordinary expectations verus what is offered by their counterparts. For myself, I have a BS in CS and a MS in Mathematics. However somehow that makes me "uncreative", while a "writer" is somehow "creatve". I could not buy a date because of being too smart.

My opinion, as a WASP who views the world in a tech/science/entrepeneurial view, is that I could honestly let the white girls whither while commit to Latina/Asian beauties. I could commit to some women not becuase of their perceived permissiveness, but rather their concern for family and nothing is ever for free. Any husband must be very vigilant to protect his budding family. There is no delusion that a WASP or Asian/Latina marriage would be easy. However, a WASP lady would be MUCH more likely to be concerned about the "CASH OUT" aspect of a marriage versus an Asian woman.

Honestly, there is a dwindling number of wasp guys in the sciences. The sciences class tends to do the most startups. However, white girls expect the world and tends to alienate the ones who are most likely to achieve success. If a Chinese guy invents simple nuclear fusion, he is still a Chinaman and not "HOT". Western values need a kick in the a**. I say this as a white guy who identifies with SOME those beliefs.

George90

06-23-07, 03:09

Honestly, there is a dwindling number of wasp guys in the sciences.

I would think you feel down right LONELY as a White in Computer Science / Mathematics. When I graduated from college in NYC, 99% of the names for C.S. were Asian.

I am not White and I am impressed with your world view. There are lots of men on some foreign wife forums who have quite racist views and seem only want arm-candy to impress other White guys.

What I don't understand is that if even White guys with graduate degrees are writing off American White women, who exactly are they (AWs) marrying?

I have seen many marriages of White American women with Indians, Chinese, Koreans but I don't know if that is a trend. What I saw was confined to the medicine / biological sciences fields.

Naked Gunz

06-28-07, 07:49

I would think you feel down right LONELY as a White in Computer Science / Mathematics. When I graduated from college in NYC, 99% of the names for C.S. were Asian.

Is that degree even worth the effort anymore? Your jobs are being outsourced.
=========================================
Back on topic of women:
=========================================
Got the USA blues -oh yeah!
Just back into the Cali, went on a date.
Spent money on dinner and whew eee! I got two kisses! WOW!
I guess I have to wait for the 3rd date..Boy that is how it works right?

F*ck u and all you c*unts waiting for Mr. Right, cuz I'm all wrong.
Can't wait to get on the first plane outta here, maybe a couple weeks or so.

DJ FourMoney

06-28-07, 11:31

I still think we are better off seeking outside of the US. While I have been in Europe for the pass month, I have not talked too, had sex with or got looks from any woman over 130lbs....

I can't get over it! I couldn't even remember what it was like to have sex with a woman that didn't outweigh you! Even as I sit here I got a wink from some trollop that just moved "behind the Orange Curtain" aka Orange County, CA (Irvine for those with knowledge of SoCal) and surprise, surprise she's about 190-200lbs....

I just got back from the Ukraine (most of that trips insights are posted where they should be) and yes you see some "classic" soviet shaped and sized women, however the reports of model types being everywhere are dead spot on! Now its not to the level of Scandinavia because if you like flat asses, small tities, go chase Slavic women.

In any case its funny and I'm in no hurry to go home, I'm trying to figure out how I can stay here, earn some income and chase women all over Europe until I find somebody worth having an LTR with.

A full report on my "findings" when I return...

Npaul1

06-29-07, 02:26

Very nice legs, feet and ass. I plan to do her again in a couple of weeks.

Naked Gunz

06-29-07, 02:50

I still think we are better off seeking outside of the US. While I have been in Europe for the pass month, I have not talked too, had sex with or got looks from any woman over 130lbs....
on! Now its not to the level of Scandinavia because if you like flat asses, small tities, go chase Slavic women.

Sad and true! Just got back from Panama. SAME,SAME,SAME...
American diet is horrendous...although I will not put all blame on the ladies.
It's just to easy to grab McD's, Pizza Hut when it's there and cheap. Not to mention so much crap to keep up with in this country. Esp if she is single mom.

Women in the countries we visit don't have half the opportunities that are in the USA, so their looks is their only option for good life and they have more time to devote to that...Just my opinion.

DJ FourMoney

06-29-07, 12:43

Sad and true! Just got back from Panama. SAME,SAME,SAME...
American diet is horrendous...although I will not put all blame on the ladies.
It's just to easy to grab McD's, Pizza Hut when it's there and cheap. Not to mention so much crap to keep up with in this country. Esp if she is single mom.

Women in the countries we visit don't have half the opportunities that are in the USA, so their looks is their only option for good life and they have more time to devote to that...Just my opinion.

We talked about that with the girl I know in Kiev, she was wondering how women got so fat and to be honest I agree, its not what we eat really, its not even access, its the fact that people stuff their face too often for a variety of reasons.

Women are taught from a young age, your hobbies are to be a girl and chase men, thats it. Anything you take up in High School is only to help you secure funding for college and nothing else.

Once you leave college your full time activities include -

Working and Chasing Men

How many women do you know that do more than that? They only work out to stay slim so men will find them more appealing.

Some women are large to start with and have to struggle to stay thin, I get that. But c'mon a steady diet around 4000 calories is going to make you very big over time, its not OVERNIGHT.

And men generally fill there time doing something, even if its playing video games, running remote controlled planes/car, racing cars, playing sports, or just going out every night, that burns up calories and generally if you stay busy you have a much harder time stuffing your face.

FSU women, ha! My lady-friend makes 200HV a MONTH. Let me repeat that 200HV a month! That's like what $60US?? She might get another 100HV from her worthless ex-husband (she calls him lazy, only bring in 300HV a month)

She doesn't have a car and walks and used the Metro. How many US women do that? Okay in NYC maybe, but then they do nothing else and eat while they watch Idol.

Yes go out in the world and find your woman, she is out there..

CBGBConnisur

07-01-07, 13:01

Women in many other countries are nicer for the reason Naked Gunz mentioned, there are more opportunities for people in the US and in most Western countries. If the circumstances were different you would see different behavior.

Jelly Donut

07-04-07, 13:55

A New York Times article about women looking to put on pounds in Mauritania. "fat is sexy" is the thrust the NYT reporter puts on the article; men like it. "Other cultures prize corpulent women".

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/world/africa/04mauritania.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Other cultures used to burn widows not long ago, too.

It's escaping me, just this moment, what other culture celebrates corpulent women? I can't think of any country with a really fat sex symbol. Bollywood sure is not producing them; I have not seen them in Chinese films.

Mauritania is one of the poorest countries in the world; good luck finding a fast-food drive-thru in Mauritania. Fat means "not poor" in Mauritania and a pragamatic man would do well to accumulate such women. I'm not really sure how many wives a man can have in the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, but I'm guessing more than one, and I suspect they cost a few camels (my buddy was offered 4 for his traveling companion in Morocco in the 80's). This sort of color escapes the attention of the NYT reporter as she spoon feeds apologia to the AW.

Digital Curry

07-04-07, 17:54

Different type of fat you become if you eat lots of healthy food vs junk and sugar.

A New York Times article about women looking to put on pounds in Mauritania. "fat is sexy" is the thrust the NYT reporter puts on the article; men like it. "Other cultures prize corpulent women".

Digital Curry

07-04-07, 18:10

Can you imagine the same thing happening to a 17 y.o. white kid?
the injustice is sickening... (ps: I'm white)

In Georgia a 17 year old honor student & star athlete was sentenced to 10 years of prison without chance of parole for having consensual oral sex with a 15 year old girl. She initiated giving him a BJ! They called it "aggravated child molestation".

This is the result of Georgia getting tough on "sexual predators". Even after prison he'll have to register for life as one, wherever he goes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16862643/

George90

07-04-07, 20:56

A New York Times article about women looking to put on pounds in Mauritania. "fat is sexy" is the thrust the NYT reporter puts on the article; men like it. "Other cultures prize corpulent women".

It's escaping me, just this moment, what other culture celebrates corpulent women? I can't think of any country with a really fat sex symbol. Bollywood sure is not producing them; I have not seen them in Chinese films.

Some other cultures are India, Indonesia, most sub-Saharan African countries, some of the eastern 'stan countries of the former USSR.

You nailed it when you wrote "FAT = NOT POOR". It means you earn enough money to keep your woman more than adequately fed. In prehistoric times, fat women were also considered sexy and beautiful. Then the reason was that a woman who had ample fat stores would bear healthier children, in the event of a scarcity of food during her pregnancy.

You won't see fat sex symbols in movies. But you will see overweight wives of well-off men in Asian and African countries. I have seen them when they come here to the US.

Chocha Monger

07-05-07, 04:19

Dear Mr. Asshole,

I hope that this letter finds you in good health and the joys of rooting. I have oft read your warnings about the dangers of communicating with women outside of brothels. It is about this matter that I wish to share a recent and most unfortunate experience. Perhaps, if I had I heeded your calls to caution regarding these communications I might have spared myself some unnecessary discomfort.

While at work business matters took me to the office of a female co-worker. During my time there I had to wait for her to retrieve some information and she began making small talk during the pause. She innocently asked, “What do you do after work for excitement?”
I, not seeing where this conversation was headed, casually replied, “I go to a place on H Drive where…” I was cut off in mid sentence.
“H Drive with the prostitutes? Do you pick up prostitutes?” she inquired accusatorily.
Needless to say I was quite shocked and at a loss as to how the conversation had taken this most unexpected turn. After recovering from this surprise attack I asked her what in the world made her say something like that since I barely even knew her. She then said that H Drive was usually frequented by prostitutes and when she was several pounds lighter as a college student she rode up and down H Drive with a car load of friends harassing the poor creatures and laughing at them. You see, she was laughing at the prostitutes on the street because she knew that she could sell her meat for much more by marrying a man and monopolizing control over his life earnings. She was a smart prostitute! Why root with many when she could root with one for much more money?

I expressed my lack of appreciation for her wild accusations, the inappropriateness of it all and then pointed out that the place I was referring to was actually a restaurant and bar before she rudely interrupted me with her imagination. I realized then that any single male with a good income and no attachments would be subject to such verbal assaults by AW feminists. It also dawned on me that all of her previous seemingly innocent questions were not so innocent after all. Indeed, it seemed that pained her, and other AW that my resources were not going to maintain one of their kind. They assume that if a man refuses to be a marital slave, though having a steady income, then he must be spending it all on rooting numerous prostitutes and they disapprove of this very strongly.

Therefore, in the future I resolve to minimize any type of conversation with AW seeing that this can only lead to danger as these women only spin evil, destruction and confusion with their words.

Best regards,
CM

CBGBConnisur

07-05-07, 11:28

The fat is sexy idea is actually quite true in some countries where there is widespread poverty and having food is more valued than it is in a rich country where it is easy to find.
I think it is still possible to find good women outside of America, in fact it is quite easy, the hard part is finding a way to build a life with them in their country. Some women still stay good even when you bring them back but it depends on a lot of factors. If you live in a big city, especially a very liberal one, there is a good chance she will cut and run from you. If you are in a small town its a different story.

Jelly Donut

07-05-07, 13:23

The distinction between what makes a good wife and what is "sexy" is getting a little foggy with some of these responses. Case in point, it might be exciting to sport screw Paris Hilton, but she's poor material for a wife. At least by conventional standards. So, she's desirable in one sense of the word, but not in the other.

I don't think the article is claiming these girls are sexy. They just seem like good wife material. I think the Mauritanian men who chase them are driven entirely by practical ideas, not because they are hotties.

This is an interesting discussion; for me, at least. But I need some examples - can you point to a celebrated model or actress in these countries with significant heft? We all know there are a lot of big women in countries like the United States and, increasingly, in India - but you don't see large Indian or American screen stars.

Here's the Miss Universe contestants from India, Kazakstan and Zambia - to fuel the discussion.
http://www.missuniverse.com/delegates/2007/files/IN.html
http://www.missuniverse.com/delegates/2007/files/KZ.html
http://www.missuniverse.com/delegates/2007/files/ZM.html

Also. I think an archaeologist might have some interesting things to suggest about pre-historic statuettes of corpulent women, but since it's pre-history it's difficult to know exactly what people felt. I think "sexy" is a reach - it tells you more about the person making the judgement about the object than the object itself, right? There certainly is a market out there for the earth mother; there are a lot of large women who want to be "sexy". Maybe it's easier to try and change the definition of "sexy" than to put down the cheese doodles and go for a walk.

Chocha Monger

07-05-07, 13:27

Even when they don't cut and run all is not roses. I almost cried when I saw my friend's wife. Why you might ask? Well, she no longer looked like the slim dark-eyed beauty that came to the USA 2 years ago. Instead, she looked like a fat cannibal who came into my friend's bedroom one night, ate his lovely slender wife and quitely took her place before he awoke. Now that she has become heavy she has become insecure and will not leave her husband alone for one minute when he is not working for fear that he will root with skinny women.

Rock Dog

07-06-07, 02:27

I checked out those links with some interest. All 3 women are fine examples of "hotness". Of course they don't represent the average woman anywhere but still......

With regards to Chocha's post, I've seen this same thing more times than I could remember. Decent looking woman with a decent body gets married, and after a few short years it's gone!

Of course having kids will take an inevitable toll on a womans' body but that can't explain away everything. They can still do a little bit of exercise, eat right and dress nicely. And having kids doesn't mean you have to go out and get one of those goddamn shortass haircuts that are so popular with middle-aged career women types.

Sometimes I see 5 or 6 of them hanging around together in their business suits, looking for all the world like a group of retarded little men.

Comments?

Bango Cheito

07-06-07, 07:27

If you want to avoid AW (which is really American CULTURE like I said) why not just permanently move out of the USA? What is keeping all you guys here?

Chocha Monger

07-06-07, 08:52

If you want to avoid AW (which is really American CULTURE like I said) why not just permanently move out of the USA? What is keeping all you guys here?
Debts, Bango, debts. Many of us owe money on education and all the other things they tell us we need to get ahead in America. Also, guys who have to pay alimony and child support to AW will find it hard to make enough money abroad to pay those bills with few exceptions. Some might say that you can leave without paying but that would turn you into a fugitive from debtor's prison. Eventually, you'll need to renew your passport and that would be a big problem unless you somehow acquired citizenship in the new country of residence.

One option is to find an American company that would pay you a US salary to work abroad but many times the jobs are in Western Europe or the Middle East, hardly ideal destinations. Once, I considered the bar business in Latin America but changed my mind when I noticed that Americans in that line of business always seem to end up dying quite violently.

Still, there are ways to leave permanently without becoming a wanted man back in the US but it requires time and capital for the young who are still far from retirement.

CBGBConnisur

07-06-07, 12:01

DJ FourMoney

07-06-07, 13:18

Debts, Bango, debts. Many of us owe money on education and all the other things they tell us we need to get ahead in America. Also, guys who have to pay alimony and child support to AW will find it hard to make enough money abroad to pay those bills with few exceptions. Some might say that you can leave without paying but that would turn you into a fugitive from debtor's prison. Eventually, you'll need to renew your passport and that would be a big problem unless you somehow acquired citizenship in the new country of residence.

One option is to find an American company that would pay you a US salary to work abroad but many times the jobs are in Western Europe or the Middle East, hardly ideal destinations. Once, I considered the bar business in Latin America but changed my mind when I noticed that Americans in that line of business always seem to end up dying quite violently.

Still, there are ways to leave permanently without becoming a wanted man back in the US but it requires time and capital for the young who are still far from retirement.

Nothing is really keeping me here...

I no wife, no kids and hardly any bills. The main concern is trying to earn income without any sort of tech training which seems to be most of the jobs available overseas. So I am considering that...

If I can figure out how to make money with just a net connection I would be down to move.

I can more than likely be a "lorrie" driver, but I dunno about that.

So for me its what in the world will I be doing for income???

I ran into an American that moved to Sweden after he got involved with a Swedish Au Pair in the Chicago area. Well after 5 years it didn't work out and he's moving back to the States. He didn't really have any skills in demand in Sweden and it took him 14 months to find employment at the Casino near the main train station in Stockholm and that took a toll on their relationship, weaken it and they were never able to recover it.

He finally moved out on his own about a year ago and hooked up with a girl he went to high school with here in Pasadena, CA (not Texas). He's coming back and we'll keep in contact so we can hook up when he moves back full time.

But yes you do need a plan, you can't just pick up and move unless you don't have shiet, then it wouldn't matter, but many countries won't let you stay without some form of employment especially in many Eastern European countries especially Russia.

I would do it and I have some other things happening that would let me stay long term, even without working. However unless I can figure out how live off the interest gained, it would be hard to live in Europe, but easier maybe in South America or some cheap Asian country.

I believe I can find a spot in a cheap Eastern Europe country (my secret) that's fairly close to a major airport that most of the low-cost airlines use and use that as a "base of operations".

Smart people might know where I am talking about and frankly if its get invaded by Westerners, the key is getting there FIRST and mining all the talent and leaving the leftovers and changing culture to the 2nd tier players as Doc Skank has termed those with lesser skill in "the game".

I am so tired of American women I wanna go back full-time I just have to make sure that when I come back (and I will) that I can come back when and how I want, not be forced into coming back.

DJ FourMoney

07-06-07, 13:42

Well that is the downside of Western culture, the more have to eat chances are the more fat you become. Obesity in Western Europe is almost as bad as it is in the USA, Eastern Europe will soon share the same fate. So will Asia as its economies become more affluent. In fact, I have seen some absolutely HUGE Indian and Chinese women. If you think the average Indian female looks like that Miss Universe contestant, take a trip to India and you will be back in reality, in fact Indian dudes go gaga over European type females even those that are pretty average looking.

Its not that easy to pick up and leave the US, debts arent the only reason, we are accustomed to a modern convenient life, I have met people who have moved overseas only to realize that many of things they got without fuss are harder to find outside of North America. I like European women from Russia and Poland, but would not want to live in either country.

I'm not sure I would want to live in Kiev either...

But we're human we can adapt and its not that hard.

But I will say that getting over the counter drugs was an issue in most of Europe and I spent the first 3.5 weeks of my vacation suffering from post nasal drip and stuffy nose. I only found relief when I hit Germany and was able to get something strong enough over the counter to solve my problem in about 12 hours....

I know most people's concerns are over our Media in American and its availability in Europe is on the top of most "need to have" list. Right now the only REAL option is Sky in the UK, but you can't get that outside of the UK really and the other options just don't measure up. Your only option now is a Slingbox or some other streaming over the net product.

Outside of that and the fact and NOBODY speaks English really can cause major problems. English speaking girls are in high demand as well, so you have no other choice but to at least learn the native language. I'm lazy like most Americans (so sue me) and I would think wisely about moving into places like Poland and Russia where not even the people at the mobile phone shops speak English for example, only at touristy places like River Palace in Kiev, even most of the girls speak more than passable English....

Oh the options are wide and varied though...

Mmbmmb

07-06-07, 22:20

Gentlemen and the lady

Nearly a month passed when I wrote my last post here. I checked what changed in this thread and I see that you still complain, not so much about women but about United States, its culture and generally society.

And for all these problems you have still the same solution: to go to ( Thailand, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Brazil, Argentina etc. )

Hmmm, ok, so let’s start from the beginning

Women in the countries we visit don't have half the opportunities that are in the USA, so their looks is their only option for good life and they have more time to devote to that...Just my opinion

Of course it depends on the country and especially on the girls you meet. I could say “ Women in the small village in USA/ Poland don't have half the opportunities that are in NY/ Warsaw.
Women in the countries you visit aren’t “created according to one pattern”. They have different families, education, characters. During my stay in US I had friends from Thailand and these girls had conservative vision of life. I mean no sex before marriage, family is the most important etc. They studied at universities in their country and had hope to find a decent job at home after their stay in America. If you pay a girl for sex she agrees for it only because she needs money. That’s the idea of prostitution. It’s another issue if she sleeps with you because she has to feed children or because she needs a new Dior’s lipstick. Besides someone has to be really naïve if she/he thinks that US is paradise where one can find a great job because in US everything is possible. It doesn’t matter where you live if you want to make good money you have to 1) know local language (fluently) 2) graduate university ( best a local one) 3) have an idea for your own business 4) to be a specialist for example in cardiosurgery (= university + years of work experience)
Gentlemen, you look for a women who’s beautiful, intelligent, feminine, who will take care of your children and who will work at an office making extra money.
Of course she has to be well educated too because it would be a shame to introduce a “stupid blond” to your friends. Don’t write me that it’s not true because I remember how my boyfriend was boasted “Mmbmmb speaks French. Mmb, X speaks French too, you can talk in this language”. Unluckily I forgot a lot of words because I didn’t use French lately, anyway I reminded myself some phrases where X could hear the nasal sounds so he was enchanted :-)
Do you know what I mean? If you pay a girl for sex she probably works in this way because she can’t find another job or she hasn’t influential family/ friends who can help her. Believe me, if someone is well educated, beautiful and intelligent it means that this person has money for it. You aren’t a women so you don’t know how much one can spend on clothes, cosmetics, beauty salons, sport etc to look nicely. I don’t mention here language courses or tennis lessons. It’s expensive, especially “in the countries you visit”.
There’s still a question if you want to fall in love with a woman who cares only of her appearance and who wants to date with you because you’re American, not because you’re handsome, intelligent man.

Obesity
I guess I wrote it somewhere, the bigger city and the bigger salary the more beautiful a girl is. When you write about Asian or African countries you’re right, it’s connected to the lack of food what is unimaginable for people in developed countries. But obesity isn’t only a problem of aesthetics but also a problem of health. If you have 20 kg of overweight it means that you have or you will have problems with heart, joints, cholesterol and diabetes. Besides ironically, often people are obese because they can’t afford to buy healthy food or to cook. They have to work all day so the only one thing they do is eating a meal from microwave. Lately I read a book “ The French women don’t get fat”. Well, I don’t believe that all French girls are slim but I liked the general idea of the book that cooking is art and people should enjoy the taste of food. The author forgot only that if someone earns minimum wage this person has no money and time to prepare chicken in champagne or home made tarte aux fraises.

DJ FourMoney,

I see you decided to visit Eastern Europe. I checked your posts and I had impression that you’re disappointed of Ukraine but you are in love with Scandinavia. I’ve never been there so maybe I should go to Sweden or Norway for holidays. I’ve always wanted to see the fjords :-)

Smart people might know where I am talking about and frankly if its get invaded by Westerners, the key is getting there FIRST and mining all the talent and leaving the leftovers and changing culture to the 2nd tier players as Doc Skank has termed those with lesser skill in "the game".

What a strange idea. But ok, I guess you know “my” theory about plants and human beings so I’ll write about something else.

Women are taught from a young age, your hobbies are to be a girl and chase men, thats it. Anything you take up in High School is only to help you secure funding for college and nothing else.
Once you leave college your full time activities include -
Working and Chasing Men
How many women do you know that do more than that? They only work out to stay slim so men will find them more appealing.

I can’t restrain myself to ask again where do you meet such women? :-)
Anyway when I was in Ukraine I’ve heard how Ukrainian men complained about local girls that they get fat when they are married. Well it has to be the international problem ;-)

I just have this "feeling" that with a enough time spent I could find somebody around 24-25, without children and pretty much fluent in English (yes I know those women are in HIGH DEMAND generally) or somebody about 21-23 willing to take English lessons and she'll have plenty of time to learn since K1 visas don't become available overnight.
Did I just expose my overall plan??
Yes I want LTR, I only dabble in P4P

Why Ukrainian girl? Don’t you like Brazilian, Hungarian or Chinese girls? It sounds like discrimination ;-)
Anyway I wish you luck. Maybe put in an advertisement in “Kiev Post”. It’s local newspaper in English :-)
http://www.kyivpost.com/
Just do this for fun and write that you look like Tyrese and you love Ukraine, its culture and people generally and you want to learn Ukrainian (Russian) language, or the best both. Don’t write that you’re lazy ;-) and don’t write about K1 visa ;-)

And first of all don’t think I’m malicious. I really wish you luck :-)

My dating profiles are setup nicely but that doesn't stop fat chicks for example from contacting me... They don't read, they look at pictures just like the men do
I could put something like NO SINGLE MOTHERS in my profiles, but that's a bit harsh and some MILF's are just too hot to say NO too, its just these examples are basically forgettable, nothing special about them really

Write in that ad that you look for an “intelligent woman who reads a lot. You love literature and you always read the books with deep understanding of text”. Don’t put in your photo ;-) You can mark that if someone’s hot you won’t say NO. Maybe your image of intellectual will suffer but on the other hand as I wrote I wouldn’t expect a bunch of innocent young ladies.

Where in the hell do I find these women???
I'm starting to think this quest for a wife, children and LTR is rather pointless at my age. If Kiev if filled with nothing but "hoes", no honest women (that can't be true) and I'm not willing to deal with all the visas and shhh with Russian based women yet, so what am I to do???

I hope DJ FourMoney that you don’t prepare for death at your age :-)
I think there’s still a chance for you to have a wife (who’s not a hooker) and children.
Maybe try to find them in Norway or Sweden ;-)
Just start to treat the girls not like cheap commodity for one night but as human beings, with respect and kindness. It’s a problem that you don’t speak in the local languages but did you learn Spanish, Russian, Swedish etc when you were in US? I guess no because you didn’t need it in your own country. So don’t expect that all people will speak English. Anyway most young Ukrainians should speak English, at least a little bit.
This is a café where you can take your laptop and to use there Wi-Fi connection.
Sorry it’s in Russian. I speak this language so I hadn’t problems to find places with Wi-Fi.
http://chaikof.com.ua/?evn0=inside&evn1=gallerey
map of Kiev

http://kiev2000.com/map/?host=kiev2000.com&map=kiev&l=ru&uamap_cuid=78683801&address=1&metro=1&index_scale=6&map_pix_size=430,419&index_img_size=1&scale=1824&st=0&mc=0.643548360494

A café where you can find books, a cup of coffee and Wi-Fi.
Something similar to Barnes & Noble I guess but much more smaller.
http://www.babuin.ua/babuin.php
You can “pretend” there that you are really interested in literature and Ukraine :-) if you still want to find girls who aren’t hookers.
It’s near the opera house, Bohdan Khmelnytsky Street 39 (the city centre)

I can't jump on the "pay" for it bandwagon, I still got hope in Germany, but they again are single mothers, not ideal at all.

So yes you can find suitable women to marry in the Ukraine it just might be harder to find the model/eye candy types than it was 15 years ago that aren't consumed with Western Culture.

River Palace is a must-see for even non-mongers, but as you said Skank would we REALLY visit Kiev if we couldn't -
A) Bang HQ regular women inside of 2-3 dates (as Telos has been able too)
B) Rent A Girlfriend for a resonable cost
C) Bang model quality woman for half what it would cost you elsewhere, but maybe FKK's and that's the take home rate
D) If you dig deep enough there's a nice, attractive girl willing to return back to your western country to be your wife, have your children and do all the things American women used to do, but with a modern flare and desire for their own identity within your relationship.

Sure they would make good wifey material because the Germans have been cheated on or abused or both and the Ukrainian needs a strong man, but I truly believe beautiful women have dating problems that average and below women have no knowledge of and can't begin to understand.

Believe me I have no dating problems. I weigh below 130 pounds and as my boyfriend says I have a very sexy accent when I speak English ;-)
And seriously, as much as it can be serious :-), put in this ad, just for fun, really.
And remember that you can always go to Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey and all over the rest of Europe. Don’t lose the faith ;-)