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It's just been my experience that my irregular pleasant surprises are met with regular unpleasant surprises. Maybe that's because I am a
Dickhead
Rubber Nursey
10-09-02, 09:48
Wow...I hope you boys realise that all this "hot chick with a brain" stuff is swelling my head to grand proportions! ;) You know, I said this before a long time ago, and I'll say it again...never in my life have I had so many men give me compliments on my (real or imagined!) intelligence, as I have on this board. And to think that this is a forum for men looking to f*ck easy women!! LOL
Ok, Dickhead...I'm 5'9" tall (6' in heels) and depending on the amount of sun I get, I have either red or dark auburn hair. You probably heard me say at one time that I WISHED I was 5'7" and blonde! LOL
Fedup...did we know each other in a past life or something?? Your physical description of me was dead on. Don't ever worry about holding back with me...I'm not easily offended :) Maybe I AM a threat to their masculinity...I'm not too sure. I freely admit that I am a tomboy, but I have to say in my defence that I'm certainly not butch. And I can NOT do the airheaded bimbo act with any real success, but I CAN flirt like a girl *grin* And believe it or not, I am actually quite shy when I'm around strangers or large groups of people. Which is probably part of the problem really...the people I feel comfortable with are the people I can relax and be myself with (read: the yobbos at the pool table laughing and singing along with the jukebox), so they are the people I gravitate towards when I'm out. But these are the guys that are not attracted to me! The guys who WOULD be attracted to me are up the other end of the bar discussing poetry and politics, and I'm too unsure of myself to go near them! LOL As for over-analysing men, I am too scared to even ask them what sort of work they do, let alone ask any loaded questions! Put me in a group of men that I feel comfortable with and I can be sassy and smart and give as good as I get. But put me in front of someone I am attracted to (or feel inferior to) and I become a bumbling idiot!
And why are more girls are approaching me now than before?
Stuff analysing it...I'm just gonna start taking advantage of it!! LOL
Joe,
I hadn't really thought about the impact of my job...hmmm. Truth be known, I usually say I am in "community services" when asked about my occupation, and I don't elaborate too much on it if I can avoid it. Too many questions to be answered otherwise. "You're just gonna have to keep a sharp eye out for someone who dearly wants both an equal and a challenge.." Ohhh I live in hope. :)
And Joe and Dickhead,
I am an activist at heart. In the last few years, I have decided that my entire purpose in life is to give a voice to the marginalised and defend the weak. I love to fight and I relish a challenge. What would I do with myself if I moved to a place where everyone agreed with me??
Rubber Nursey
10-09-02, 09:55
Oh, and re: Dickhead's Brazilian girl who all the woman hate. I've said it before here, but I think it deserves repeating...women are a woman's worst enemy. Men should remember (not you in particular Dickhead) that most women will try to impress other women BEFORE they try to impress a man.
I'll give you a tip...never approach a woman in a club if she is with other women. She won't want to look "easy" or she may be concerned that her girlfriends won't like the look of you, so she'll probably turn you down. Same goes for if you want her to behave like a bimbo or a sex goddess...other women hate that and we know it, so we won't do it in front of other girls. Always try to get us alone. :)
>What would I do with myself if I moved to a place where everyone agreed with me??
Umm, be happy and get laid a lot? :D
I'm also an activist, and the truth is that there are a wide variety of levels on which one can be effective, not always tied directly to geography. (And I'd personally like to know about that place where everyone agrees with me and there are no weak and marginalized, as I'll pack my bags tomorrow!) Having highly motivated and effective activists running around being personally miserable and occasionally despairing because of a lack of personal support and fraternity is not a prescription for effective social change; it's one for burn-out and cynicism.
Rubber Nursey
10-09-02, 15:49
But this is where I belong. I "fit" here... Regardless of whether or not I'm getting laid, I wouldn't be happy anywhere else. Millions of people flock here every year from all around the world...surely they must be onto something. :)
And it's not my hobbies that made me cynical...it's not being blonde and busty that did it!! LOL
5 foot 9? OK, I'll get a ladder. Leave the heels at home. But I would rather have a redhead than a blond any day, especially a green eyed red head. Got green eyes? That shit drives me WILD.
But I don't think my Brazilian gal is trying to impress anybody. I think she is just being herself. The American women in there are OK and not too stuck up, but they have no flair, no style, no panache, no joie de vivre. And of course, most of them are dare I say it? FAT. Come to think of it, out of about 12 AWs in there, only one is not overweight. But I think we've covered that subject before if I remember correctly :)
I agree with what JZ said about burnout. I'm sure Perth is a lovely city but the world is very large. I really feel that you would be a more effective activist if you broadened your horizons a bit. I frequently accuse you of having a first world point of view, and plus I think that you would find that some of the stuff guys say in here, with which you don't agree, is in fact true but just doesn't apply to RN in her current stultifying, albeit bucolic, environs.
PS: I have red hair too if you would like to start a large red ghetto.
you know rn, there's an old saying that goes like this: "it's a nice place to visit... but i wouldn't want to live there". millions of lemmings jump off cliffs each year as well.
i can see your reluctance to leave though. if you grew up there, and have friends there, it's hard to leave one place for another. i'm still struggling with this issue myself. i don't see location as being the big problem anyway. you may leave the town behind but you can't leave yourself.
as for your dating dilemma, mine is pretty much the same. i have always had my own circle of friends who i feel comfortable with and have no real desire to leave. however it does me no good as there isn't a girl in the group who i'd care to date (and vis versa). large groups also make me uncomfortable... i was never a party animal and i don't enjoy fighting to be heard (inner pacifist i guess). we both seem to have the problem of being unable to break out of this comfort zone and head for the unknown. i too, turn into a babbling nincompoop when faced with a girl i find attractive. everyone has their own insecurities i suppose, but it's interesting to hear that someone like yourself has the same problems. the answer is simple really, either go approach the guys talking politics (and perhaps get laid), or stay with the yobbos (and don't get laid) you feel comfortable with. being shy is a curse.
dickhead... any plans for the brazilian girl? to bad there aren't more like her around. it's likely that the constant derision that she faces from other women in this country will eventually turn her into a cynical prude. better jump her while you can (or perhaps send her my way :)
darkseid... you face the same self confidence issues that many am have. i relate it to what george carlin called the "pussification" of the american male. in our society it's not very hard to understand where this lack of self confidence came from.
Rubber Nursey
10-09-02, 17:06
For the record, I DO agree with most of what is said in this section. All the stories of money-hungry, materialistic, vain (or overweight) women ring very true to me, and it's stuff that I have witnessed many times before. The only thing I don't agree with is that ALL women are that way...and surely even the grumpiest of you guys would agree with that! *grin*
And wanting to see the world is all fine and dandy, but I don't have the time or the money (and I never will at the rate I'm going!), and there are other things keeping me here at the moment that are kinda out of my control. I would love to travel, and have every intention of doing so one day soon, but right now it's impossible. And leaving the state or the country on a permanent basis is not legally possible for me, due to Family Court restrictions. (Fancy that...a WOMAN who got screwed by the Family Court! Well, I never...)
PS...my eyes are hazel, but there's a little more green in them than brown, and they turn green when I wear certain colours. You're not the only one with Celtic ancestory. :)
"...and they turn green when I wear certain colours. You're not the only one with Celtic ancestory"
Or maybe it's the chameleon ancestry ;)
Stranger99
10-09-02, 19:07
As our friend CBGB would put it: RN go to Europe...
Seriously, talking as somebody that left his country many times to live in others I can see RN point.
Wherever you go there is always a barrier (which in my case is also a language barrier but that is mainly cultural) that will prevent you to be 100% effective as you would be in the place where you were born and raised.
Also I add that it would matter more to me to make a difference in my home town and country rather than improving the living conditions of pandas in China. With this I don't want to say that I don't care about others, I am sure you guys are getting my point.
Also I was thinking the other day that I really value the opinion of a lot of the guys writing here and I find it kind of limiting the fact that whatever we write has to be somehow related to sex, prostitution, etc.
I know this are the subjects of these forums but anyway if one day I want to discuss other issues such as Iraq, politics, etc., please be aware that in my questions I am gonna drop here and there some references to american women, prostitution being not moral, etc. just to be in line with the forum purposes.
Originally posted by Fedup
Dickhead... Any plans for the Brazilian girl? To bad there aren't more like her around. It's likely that the constant derision that she faces from other women in this country will eventually turn her into a cynical prude. Better jump her while you can (or perhaps send her my way :)
married married married
must ... not ... think ... about ... it
OK, I will lay off after this BUT
Originally posted by RN
"And wanting to see the world is all fine and dandy, but I don't have the time or the money"
Don't you have a "portable source of income"? :<)
"And leaving the state or the country on a permanent basis is not legally possible for me, due to Family Court restrictions. (Fancy that...a WOMAN who got screwed by the Family Court! Well, I never...)"
Emphasis on LEGALLY possible. Maybe that is why I enjoy travelling to virtually lawless places such as Bolivia, and places such as Méjico where there are many laws but few are taken seriously most of the time.
"PS...my eyes are hazel, but there's a little more green in them than brown, and they turn green when I wear certain colours. You're not the only one with Celtic ancestory. :) "
What color do they turn when you are wearing NOTHING??? That's what's running through my mind right now (and rapidly moving south).
Two types of people in the world: those who are Irish and those who wish they were! DH
Rubber Nursey
10-10-02, 04:24
"Emphasis on LEGALLY possible. Maybe that is why I enjoy travelling to virtually lawless places such as Bolivia, and places such as Méjico where there are many laws but few are taken seriously most of the time."
Unfortunately, Australia is NOT a lawless country, and thanks to the laws in place, I can't get a passport for my children. It's that simple. *I* can travel whenever I like (or whenever I can get the cash), but my kids can't come with me until the youngest turns 16. I would rather spend the rest of my days in this city than be apart from my children for any real length of time.
That said, I am planning to come to the US for two weeks in the middle of next year. Don't know how successful I'll be yet, but I'm gonna be trying my hardest to make it happen :) One day I am going to go to Wales and Ireland too. Ok, I'm laying off this too now...
Stranger99,
I totally agree. It would be nice to have a "General Bullshit" type section where all of us who are "mates" on this site could chat about unrelated matters. The only problem I could see would be the morons who would undoubtedly gatecrash and stir trouble, seeing as there would be no established guidelines as to what they could speak about. I've always found that this section and the Morality section tend to go off topic quite regularly, and nobody gives too much of a damn. Maybe you could just end every political rant you make with, "And by the way, I saw a cute hooker on the corner of Hyde and Lake...." or "PS. My Mum is an American Woman". LOL
Originally posted by RN
I would rather spend the rest of my days in this city than be apart from my children for any real length of time.
[/i]
That is commendable. DH
Well, RN, I don't think you need a passport to be elsewhere in OZ, though, right? And presumably you could bring your kids along in that event as well. Given how you've described WA relevant to the rest of the country, that would seem a more serious option.
For what it's worth, I didn't do any real travelling until I was past your age and have since seriously made up for lost time, so it's not like there's some kind of prescription on how it needs to happen.
Though the last thing we need is for you to move to the states, get fat, and cop an American attitude... (a lame attempt at topic relevance. :))
She said she couldn't leave the state with the kids. While WA is the biggest state in OZ, there ain't a hell of a lot there besides Perth.
I am getting p....d off by the technicalities of this forum (yes I am computer literate).
Having logged in, gotten a "welcome" message and all I wrote a very lenghty, highly interesting and whatever reply to RN in the "morality" section.
Then it happens again as almost every time before after this "registering" thingy was introduced - I click the "submit message" button and get - guess what - "you are not logged in"!!!!!! (Connection was never broken during the 20 minutes it all took). Happens every time except my only post yesterday.
Guess what if I try to "re-log" in...... either a repeated "you are not logged in" or a "welcome" - in the last case the the nobel prize winner of literature post I put together is no longer recoverable or is placed "before" my logging-in.
Grrrrrr.
DH -- yeah, but that restriction is more likely to be able to be changed than is the passport one, as the level of feared flight isn't as great. Admittedly, it would still take some effort if you want to be legal about it, but it's a far more surmountable obstacle. While there's nothing else in WA, a move to, say, Adelaide or Melbourne isn't as huge as ending in the US ro elsewhere.
Traveller -- I've had success when I've had problems by going into the control panel and disabling cookies for browsing and, at times, for login. The former seems to be more consistent in my experience.
Rubber Nursey
10-11-02, 02:08
Traveller,
Happens to me too babe. It happens considerably less since the server change for some unknown reason, but it still happens pretty often. What I do is log in, write the message, highlight the message, right click and copy, then press submit. If it goes through, great. If it doesn't, I go straight back to the main page, log in again and paste the message in again. I've got into the habit of copying every message I write, so I haven't lost any in a long time.
Rubber Nursey
10-11-02, 02:31
Joe,
I have an order that says I am not allowed to move outside a 500 kilometre radius from my ex-husband's home. Considering he lives on the coast, it means I can only move 500 ks east! Yes it is ridiculous, but that's the position a hell of a lot of single Mums here find themselves in. There has been a lot of discussion in the media about it...especially after a WA woman was forced to leave her new job in Queensland and return to WA last year...but nothing ever seems to be done about it. According to the Family Court, the "best interests of the child" have precedence over the best interests of the mother. Unfortunately, the court believes it's in the child's best interest to be close to both parents. (Regardless of whether or not the dipshit is paying child support!) I can't see why the courts don't force the EX to move if he wants to be near the kids, rather than preventing the woman from moving. Anyway, that's totally off-topic, and I'm gonna quit with the travel thing now...
As for MY feeble attempt to get back on subject :) ...Fedup said he was too shy to approach women. I said I was too shy to approach men. How many of you suffer from the same problem? How much chance do we all have of getting laid, if you are waiting for us to make the move and we are waiting for you to do it?!
RN - I hear your frustration and can understand it especially if he is not paying child support.
I am the ex-husband who faithfully paid child support and even sent extra when I had it. I would move to where the kids were and she would pack up and move and I am not talking small distances - Moved to Texas from the East Coast and she moved to Michigan - moved to Michigan and she moved to Kansas. I could not keep a job and keep moving.
One time she moved in a local area and did not get the check on-time - The Postal Service held it and I thought she had it - She had my wages garnished because she failed to tell me she moved. Made me look bad in the eyes of my employer - but she failed to let him know it was her mistake - and she wound up with two checks when her mail caught up to her.
Sorry - but wanted to put in my side - I know mine is unusual but I am sure situations like mine influence the court - even if it is not always right.
Rubber Nursey
10-11-02, 03:08
RandyOne,
I really feel for you babe. Please don't get me wrong...I do understand that these things can work out badly for BOTH parties, and it's almost impossible to be able to keep everyone happy all of the time. When a couple divorce and want to go their separate ways, it means that at least one of them is probably gonna get the raw end of the deal. My real complaint is that here it is always the woman who is tied down, and I don't feel that's fair. Especially when the ex isn't even paying child support. But I do know a lot of MEN who have been totally screwed over by their partners as well, and I feel just as much frustration for them as I do for my own situation.
I have to add...it's so nice to hear from a man who accepts his responsibilities to his children regardless of the behaviour of their mother. So often the children are punished by sparring parents and child support or visitation is withheld out of spite. You are a good man, RandyOne. And your children will realise that and thank you for it in the long run. :)
RandyOne -- I know of a couple guys with similar stories. Lots more. of course, who simply don't pay or bother with staying in touch.
Here's another unusual one -- a friend of mine just had his child support end because the kid came of age. This child was the result of a one night stand, and my pal paid on time, every time for eighteen years without a single complaint. At the request of the mother, he really didn't have any contact except when the kid asked for it, and he frequently sent extra money. His attitude, which is part of the reason he's stayed my friend for decades, was that how the kid came to be wasn't something the kid should have to pay for, and that he was brought up to live up to his responsibilities, so this was no big deal.
RN -- I do know what you mean about the absurdity of those kinds of things. My sister lost custody of her daughter to her ex because the judge disliked the fact that she was working in a convenience store and said if she had custody she'd raise her daughter Catholic (her ex was Baptist, as was the judge.) She was forbidden from taking the daughter to see her grandmother for a decade because ex-hubby was convinced she'd leave the state and never return.
One of the primary reasons that marriage sucks is because divorce sucks. However, I had a simple operation that made a vas deferens in my bargaining position. What was funny was the first gal I dated after I got divorced got pregnant (by someone else, obviously) and tried to sue me for paternity. I let her waste her money on a lawyer and then brought the medical records and a recent zero sperm count into court. Hell, I told I was sure it wasn't mine, I just didn't tell her WHY I was sure, and she denied sleeping with someone else. I guess it was an immaculate conception.
RN said "How much chance do we all have of getting laid, if you are waiting for us to make the move and we are waiting for you to do it?!"
ummm... I think you have your answer already
So here's what I think (we all knew it was coming). With women's strides to become equal in most facets of life they have gained more power, and the women don't know what to do with that power. Women have always had veto over who they'll date and ultimately fuck. The problem is that women still expect men to be chivalrous, make the first move, etc. This approach doesn't work anymore: Women wanted the power, got it, and now they don't use it. If women have achieved all this equality then why aren't they asking guys out? Maybe the girls should be driving to MY house and picking ME up. There's no clear leader in dating anymore, and we all know what happens when an army has no leader... chaos. By declawing Western men we have eliminated the alpha male and left the army without a head.
That's my rant for today... tune in tomorrow for another one.
Oh... If you all were wondering what happened to the whiners, they've taken over the "best girls for LTR board".
RN... If your ex doesn't pay support, and doesn't really care about the kids, then why can't you have the judge declare him as having abandoned them and rescind the travel ban? Besides, what happens if you win a contest for a trip to the Great Barrier Reef and the kids can't go?. That hurts them as they are unable to travel, see new sights, and learn about the world. Not only has this judge taken away your freedom, he has taken it from the children as well. Perhaps the court needs to be reminded of this.
The corrolary to your excellent point, FedUp, is that men also don't know what to do with women having power. This thread, when it's not focused on physical details, is often an illustration of that fact. And the other problem is that guys truly do get mixed signals on being chivalrous, etc. I've opened and held doors for people behind me all my life, and offered to carry things, for both male and female, regardless of age, as I was taught it was simple politeness. Although things have thankfully lightened up somewhat in the past couple of years, I still get far worse response to those acts by a certain percentage of women (primarily, I might add, those in whom I'd have absolutely no interest.) But let's face it, society at large and this board as well defines women as targets, and they often are exactly that for unwanted attention (something men have less problem with, though far from totally -- and I could tell some stories on that) as well as violence, so some degree of hostility/standoffishness is understandable.
I think alpha males still do fine -- it's those who aren't necessarily the leaders of the pack who are having real trouble as they've been told they can't follow that alpha example anymore, and there's not a model that satisfactorily replaces that one for all concerned at this point.
Rubber Nursey
10-12-02, 03:13
Joe,
re: What you said about getting a bad response from women when you hold the door open for them, etc...
It's not like that here. I read your statement and really thought about it, and it just doesn't ring true at all for my city. People here, male or female, hold doors open for each other and help with heavy boxes in the carpark and give way to each other (voluntarily) in peak hour traffic. When somone breaks down in the middle of the road, five strangers jump out of their cars to help push it out of the way. If you trip over in public, someone will help you up and ask if you're ok.
What I'm getting at is...is it really a matter of chivalry being frowned on, or is it that Americans have come to a point where they just don't interact with each other any more? One of the things that Aussies who have been to big cities in the US always comment on, is that "Americans can't/don't look each other in the eye". I was just wondering whether maybe the empowerment of women and the changing gender roles have less to do with it, than the overall attitude Americans apparently have to being "intimate" with strangers. Do women actually get SCARED when a stranger holds the door open for her, thinking that perhaps he has some ulterior motive? Are men afraid that if another guy helps him with a heavy box, that he just may run off with it?
Please don't take this comment as an insult...I realise I'm making gross generalisations on a country I have never even been to, but what do you think? Is it chivalry that you've lost, or is it human contact in general?
a few days ago, i was approaching a newpaper vending machine, at angle, while a woman was approaching at an opposite angle at about the same speed. as i got a few feet from the machine, and she was the same few feet from the machine, i gestured towards the machine and said, "ladies first."
"what's that got to do with it?" she snarled, with a real nasty look on her face.
i should have said, "i'm sorry, i meant cunts first," but i didn't. i don't think fear of being robbed is what's going through some women's minds when i hold doors open for them. i think it is the whole equality thing.
if the same situation arises again, though, i'll do the same thing. i do agree that aussies are much friendlier and politer than the average american, in my experience.
Rubber Nursey
10-12-02, 05:02
You know, Dickhead, that really pisses me off. Those women are totally f*cking things up for the rest of us. I could be wrong...because I was born well after the the bra burning days...but I honestly don't think that's what our "foremothers" had in mind when they demanded equality.
I always thought the fight for equality was about human and civil rights. The right to vote, the right to work outside the home, the right to equal pay for equal work. If I don't get the job it should be because I was not capable, not because I was not male. I should be allowed to manage my own money within a marriage. All the civil liberties that the white male took for granted should be mine as well. But I do NOT want to BE a man. Which idiot decided that ladies didn't want to be called ladies any more? The same idiot that told men to stop opening doors for women?
I'm not sure who to blame for this really...the feminazi man-haters or the men themselves. Yes, I have heard women say that they are offended by being called "girls" and that consider a man offering his assistance to be patronising. BUT, I have also heard men say "If she wants equality in the workplace, then she can ask me out/pay for dinner/buy me gifts"...what does that have to do with equality in the workplace? Women have gone on a power trip and started milking feminism for all it's worth, and men have got bitter and twisted and started using feminism against us.
Personally, I love it when a man says "ladies first". I don't expect it or demand it of course, but it's sweet to hear it. Would the woman at the newspaper vending machine preffered you to have said "Back off b*tch...I was here first"? There are women like me all over the world wanting to meet one of yesterday's "true gentlemen', and it's women like her that are turning them into assholes.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RN: [i]" Which idiot decided that ladies didn't want to be called ladies any more? The same idiot that told men to stop opening doors for women? "
Yeah, pretty sure it was the same idiot. DH
"Yes, I have heard women say that they are offended by being called "girls' "
I never, ever do that. You do, though. And if you do, wouldn't that encourage others to do so to? DH
"BUT, I have also heard men say "If she wants equality in the workplace, then she can ask me out/pay for dinner/buy me gifts"...what does that have to do with equality in the workplace?"
Well, nothing, but it still sounds like a good idea to me. :) DH
"Women have gone on a power trip and started milking feminism for all it's worth, and men have got bitter and twisted and started using feminism against us."
Agree. DH
"There are women like me all over the world wanting to meet one of yesterday's "true gentlemen', and it's women like her that are turning them into assholes."
YESTERDAY'S???!!? :( DH
Plus also too additionally besides, how's come every time I'm in a relationship I spend way MORE on her Christmas/birthday/anniversary/just to surprise you gift than she EVER spends on mine? Even the relationships where I make the same or even LESS than she does? Not that I'm an extravagant gift giver, either.
Partially answering my own question: none of the women I've been in relationships have been able to handle money. But that is no excuse. They could learn, same as I did.
Rubber Nursey
10-12-02, 06:14
LOL!! Sorry babe...perhaps I should say, the gentlemen who yesterday were appreciated but today are frowned upon. Forgive me?? ;)
As for me calling women "girls"... I am getting all too close to being thirty years old. I LOVE still being called a girl! Think I'm gonna shag a guy who calls me Ma'am?? LOL (Unless it's said in a long, slow Southern drawl of course. Mmmmm.) Women who find the word girl patronising are just looking for any old excuse to argue, if you ask me. 'Spose it depends on how you say it though. If you said I couldn't do something "because you're just a girl" you would have to duck flying objects...
Rubber Nursey
10-12-02, 06:28
There's a tip to successful gift giving, that should save you a shitload of money as well. (Granted, this will not work on shallow, materialistic women, but if she's that bad...why are you with the selfish cow anyway???) The tip is...forethought.
Sure, we all like expensive shiny things, but to me those type of gifts say that you're rich...not that you necessarily love me. What would be better than getting a brand new BMW for my birthday?
* Taking me for a picnic lunch in the park, at the exact spot where we met five years ago
* Getting the DVD of the movie that was playing at the drive-in in '88, that we missed 'coz we were shagging in the back seat
* Organising a babysitter, running a bath and lighting candles, and surprising me with a night alone together when I get home from work
* ANYTHING that tells me that our time together means as much to you as it does to me.
That sort of thing just melts my cold little feminist heart. :)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you still have to spend more than $10 on my birthday present.
Rubber Nursey
10-12-02, 09:02
What...like free sex isn't enough for you?? *cheeky grin*
Although I do think that in the larger cities Americans can be more distant and have less interpersonal contact, I think in many ways that's a byproduct of cities. I see it less as I move out of the larger places. The bottom line is that I don't get the same negative reaction from men if I hold a door, or the elderly, or kids. Generally, I get warm thanks, occasionally a bit of conversation or banter, either of which is a welcome payoff for a slight act and which helps the day go by more pleasantly. But an unfortunately high percentage of women come up with the same reaction Dickhead describes -- and I'd hazard that every American male has felt the sting of having their polite gesture rebuffed at one point or another. If politeness is not either returned or accepted it will eventually cease to exist, and what does that have to do with equality? And let me be clear that I'm not making a blanket statement -- this is not nearly half of women who have this reaction, but it's still a significant enough percentage that it's a trend as opposed to a series of isolated incidents.
No disagreement on your gift approach from me, RN, as it generally matches my approach, but I also know guys who have been called cheap bastards by their girlfriends for doing exactly those kinds of things as opposed to coughing up an expensive bauble that can be shown off.
the rudeness from women is most likely from the mistrust that they learn from living in a big city environment. there are more reported crimes in big cities than in little suburbab townships because of the bigger media influence in the cities. women are told to trust no one and they all believe that men are after them for just sex and that men hope to be polite to them to get into their pants. the media is influenced by feminism and prudity in many ways. the media never shows good things happening when a man holds the doors but they show all crimes in which a courteous gesture has an alterior motive like a man holding the door and then pulling a knife and [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) the woman in the rooftop of that apartment building.
the rise of feminism is also another factor. feminism always stresses the historical abuse of men to the women. it is like blacks hating whites today because they haven't forgiven them for slavery. in the same way, feminist nazis stress unforgiveness to men and therefore to hate men and take advantage of the laws that favor women today. these same unforgiving, spiteful feminist nazis are the ones that snicker at you for being courteous. they also think that by a man being courteous to them is offensive and that the man thinks they cannot help themselves. this is their interpretation of courtesy. if that is the case then let the door go and make them catch the door so they can push it open themselves. this will make them a lot happier.
Sex is never free for a man RN!
There is some bullshit out here on this opinions board. Let me say this...after living in Los Angeles for most of my adult life: women in this town are bitches, plain and simple. I finally have a girlfriend without the attitude, or the belief that men owe her something (mostly money). They feel you should treat them like a princess, and i don't mind doing that, but they should not EXPECT it! It should be a welcome courtesy from a man who cares about them.
I don't care WHY they do it, it's a plain and simple fact that many of them do and that is sad. I have had hard bumps on my own life, but that didn't make me a cynical bastard.
By the way, my girlfriend (the one without the attitude) is a foreigner. This says something about American women, at least the ones in LA.
Blobster, the women in New York are East coast versions of LA bitches. They too expect their men to treat them like princesses, and if you can't meet their expectations like buy them jewelry and clothes or they will dump you. This means you must spend your entire paycheck to please them or you must be rich. I am middle class and I complain if they spend more than half my paychecks on their clothes. I had an ex-girlfriend that dumped me because I couldn't buy her more shoes even after I already bought her some (and the sex wasn't even that good either). She thought that sex was a way to repay me for the shoes. This is why i became more choosy with American women. Yes, I ask them out and date them only because I am stuck in America but I also ditch them as soon as they ask for something expensive and complain when I refuse to buy it. Yes, I would buy that for her birthday or anniversary, which is reasonable but some women ask me to buy something expensive the moment they lay eyes on it. New York women tend to be impulsive shoppers. Some of them hold high positions and make more than I do but are poor because they spend anything they get on clothes or jewelry. Then they try to hook up with a guy and spend their money.
Hey, all you guys in Cali listen to Tom Lekis 97.1 FM!3pm to 7pm mon - fri!
My personal Advice :
** FORGET ** American Women !!
Go to an ASIAN MASSAGE PARLOR if you want a woman
who'll treat you Right !!
P.S. i *know* what i'm talking about ...
.... i'm *married* to an American Woman !!!
Hi RN,
I was out with a group of friends (male and female) and along with the alcohol, the topic somehow turned to masturbation. Don't ask me how???
Here in the US, studies such as the Kinsey report and other legitimate academic researchers have found that approximately 94% of men masturbate (one author said the other 6% were probably liars). Ok, sounds about right.
When the isssue of FEMALE masturbation came up, matters became sort of tense if not deadly. I didn't say a word. My date already hates me I think.
Well, to your knowledge as a professional, what are the characteristics of female mastrubation? It's an unkown and pretty much a taboo subject here in the states - I think? I mean, like how often do women mastrubate? Do Oz women have all kinds of "medievil" hang-ups about it like women in the states? Is it a normal phase of human development and growth? Is it frowned upon in Oz culture? Is it looked upon as healthy and appropriate?
I guess, I'm asking what do you know about this topic? I certainly learned nothing on Saturday night. The women went from jolly to deadly serious when the subject turned to females. Also, if any of guys out there have any data or research we'd like to hear it.
Thanks.
94% of all men admit to masturbating and 6% are liars, whereas 6% of all women admit to masturbating and 94% are liars.
In most studies women admit to masturbating about a third less than men, with, for example, 62% fessing up in Kinsey. It should be noted that Kinsey asked how many had or did masturbate, so that number looks at "ever" -- other studies have looked at things such as frequency and most recent experience. Various studies have the numbers for both sexes pegged at different levels, but women tend to be lower in percentage across the board. Many researchers say this is because a) women have traditionally been seen as serving their mates as opposed to pursuing their own sexual gratification, b) women who do think of themselves as sexual beings are negatively labelled, and, perhaps most pertinent to your experience, c) there is also more of a taboo about talking about it among women. Some researchers, for what it's worth, (such as in the book "Human Autoerotic Practices") are reporting that the percentages among women are on a definite rise.
My favorite little sex stat (ok, all, measure yourself by this ruler LOL) is that the typical person spends about 600 hours having sex between the ages of 20 and 70. Now, I'm sure this is a board of overachievers, but I'm not sure whether it's amusing or awful to think that for as much time spent in our culture and our lives around all things sexual, the average person will spend less than a month of his or her life actually getting it on... If you consider the average guy is supposed to last about 6 minutes, then that means having sex 6000 times, or, on average ten times a month during that span. Of course, if that stat takes in foreplay (say, 15 minutes or so, to be conservative) and/or masturbation then it's a considerably sadder and lonelier landscape out there, and one that explains the plaints so often heard here.
So if 96% of men admit masturbating per Kinsey, then a third FEWER of that would be 64%. That means that (100- 64) / (100 - 96) or 9 times as many women are liars as compared to men.
Six minutes? You gotta be kidding me. Get a blow up doll. Yeah, yeah, I read Kinsey too in my misspent youth. Now Masters was fucking Johnson throughout the course of their research so I feel it was probably superior research.
Hell, OF COURSE it was "superior research." He was getting paid while getting laid. That is the DEFINITION of superior research.
Did you hear about the Irish guy who got laid three times on his honeymoon? In, out, and in.
Yeah, well the six minutes thing comes from some other sources, but it's not far from what Kinsey and M&J had to say.
Interesting statistics. I guess Kinsey wore a watch while having sex with a blowup doll and ejaculated after 6 minutes. These statisticians are geeks and I doubt they can actually get a real woman to time fuck unless they paid a prostitute to be the test subject.
I feel If you just be yourself someone will notice it. When you are a gentleman even if she is nasty it will be in her mind. She may think about it later and think to herself this guy was just being nice. Plant the seed and everything else will follow. Did you really lose anything by her nasty attitude? All you did is is find she isn't the kind of person you want anyway. Often we don't do anything that helps us right away but the next person that comes. When you screw over a women you make it harder for the next person. This holds true in any country. I have lived in Asia 10yrs and found this to be true. Orginally from New York I got a clear cross section of different women.
Rubber Nursey
10-30-02, 08:35
Ohhhh Powerman...I think I just found myself a new hero! Well said, babe. :)
Paddy,
Haven't looked in this section for ages, so I just noticed your question. I'll write back to you a bit later on when I have more time (read: not at work!)
Re: The six minute theory...
Yet again I will probably be unpopular for saying this (what's new), but I am in total agreement with the six minute estimate. Actually, I would perhaps even put it at a little shorter...maybe 3 - 5 minutes. Certainly there are men who are a lot quicker than that, and there are men with more stamina than an Eveready battery...but in my experience the "average" man would definitely not go past six minutes. In fact, one of the first techniques a hooker has to master, is how to STOP a man from reaching orgasm! It's really quite difficult to fill up a one hour booking when the actual sex act only lasts for five minutes.
Or then again...maybe I'm just good in bed??? LOL :)
I think the average man would climax more quickly with a prostitute than with a non-prostitute for a number of reasons:
1) Time is money
2) Many prostitutes want to rush you
3) Pimps knocking on the door or apprehension of same
4) No reason to try to impress
5) Suboptimal environment you don't want to hang around in
6) Overly frustrated or "backed up" which is why you sought the hooker in the first place
7) Condoms make it more difficult to maintain an erection so you are unwilling to take the risk of "slowing down"
8) Passive aggressive attitude towards the sex worker, leading to a concept of treating her as a handy, convenient, efficient receptacle
9) Fear of law enforcement and risk directly proportional to time spent
Having said all that: Five minutes? Get a clue.
Rubber Nursey
10-30-02, 10:00
Well yes, pretty much all of that makes sense to me. :) But I wasn't just talking about clients...I have (ok, HAD) a sexlife outside of prostitution as well. And I stand by my original observation...the "average" time, from point of entry to point of ejeculation, (excluding foreplay, etc) is not usually very long at all. Mind you, I've had men who have gone on so long that I've started noticing cracks in the ceiling, too! LOL Five or six minutes is really a very long time though...longer than it sounds. When you consider how many thrusts you can manage in that time...
And it wasn't a criticism...just an observation.
A guy can last longer if he controls his breathing patterns, much like running long distances. I compare ejaculation with the time it take for one to pant and rest in running because the energy in both sex and running comes from the diaphragm of the lungs, or in kung-fu, they call it the hara which emits chi, or internal energy. If you breathe long, slow and relaxed breaths, you can run longer distances and last longer in bed. I learned this in kung-fu class for running and I experimented with sex and it works! I tried this with an ex-girlfriend and lasted 20-30 minutes with her the first cumming and then lasted 3 hours the second ejaculation, where before I learned the breathing exercises, I too lasted only 7 minutes. This doesn't take away from the intensity of the orgasm but makes you have a longer one.
I also want to last long with prostitutes because I want my money's worth and yes, I do want to get a full hour of pussy, not 5 minutes because I paid for an hour so I also apply these techniques for them. I don't care about what happens outside the session or if cops bust in. They would have to pull me off of her to stop me.
well, as someone who's had both the 5-6 minute experiences and the hour-plus-long ones, all i can say is given that lots of guys seem to think that six inches are actually ten, why shouldn't they think that six minutes are an hour? it's just sexual arithmetic :d
but for what it's worth, dh, i tend to find that condoms delay, rather than speed up cumming, because of the loss of sensation.
Condoms make you last twice or maybe three times as long because there is also lless friction with it on. Also, I actually looked at the time before I started humping and then looked at the clock after I ejaculated because I want to make sure I don't get ripped off by the prostitute. I pay for an hour so I expect an hour!
yes, to clarify i do believe that normally condoms delay rather than speed up the firing of the load. the scenario i mentioned is an uncommon, although not rare i believe, subset of condom issues.
Rubber Nursey
10-31-02, 10:41
Ok...Paddy,
Do women masturbate? Hell yeah, we do!! And I would think a hell of a lot more women than the 'studies' suggest, would do it on a regular basis. I'm in agreement with Joe as to why. I think the biggest reason why your female friends shut up, was probably because women who talk 'like that' in public are quickly labelled. Only sl*ts and wh*res overtly talk about sex with men around. Plus, any talk of female genitalia will automatically be seen by the men in the group as an open invitation to ask for sex. Then there is the common assumption that men "need" sex more than women do. Men have an excuse to have a wank every five seconds ('coz we all know their balls will explode if they don't!), whereas women...who don't NEED sex like men do...don't have any real reason to touch themselves. A woman who desires sexual gratification that often MUST be a nymphomaniac. (Hence, another reason to ask her for sex!) I think your female friends probably just didn't want to be viewed as sexual beings/objects by the men in your group.
As for Oz culture...I'm not sure how to answer that. You have to remember that in my work now, and obviously in my previous work, I openly talk about sex all the time. The people around me are perfectly comfortable talking about sex too. I know all the intimate details about all of my co-workers sexlives...and that's just from light conversation at lunch!! LOL So of course nobody in my social circle would have any hangups about female masturbation. However if you asked, for example, a churchgoing mother of five who married her first love, I daresay her and her social circle would hold very different views.
Overall though, I would say that Aussies in general are pretty relaxed with most aspects of sexuality. (Although many Aussie men still have hangups about homosexuality, but that's gradually changing). Masturbation is considered by most to be perfectly healthy and normal. Women may be reluctant to discuss intimate details with men around still, but that's more to do with the sexist reasons above than being uncomfortable with the subject itself. All-girl conversations are MUCH more relaxed! But in groups of mates, where there is no sexual tension, both male and female masturbation is talked about (usually joked about) with ease.
I seem to be getting the impression that there is a much bigger gap between the stereotypical male and female in the US, than there is here. It seems as though we have a greater level of gender equality...and I mean in interpersonal relationships, etc, not in law. I've heard many Americans refer to Australian women as "ballsy" (as opposed to American women being "b*tchy). The stereotypical Aussie male is macho and chauvenist...but the stereotypical Aussie woman is also strong and spirited. What do you guys think? What does the "typical" man and woman look like in America?
The first time I went to Oz, I was struck by how open, friendly, relaxed, informal, and so forth the people were. I guess I thought they were alarmingly forward compared to Americans and especially compared to Europeans. I am not shy by any means but like most Americans, I don't really strike up conversations with strangers very much.
On the plane on the way over, I sat next to an engineer from Melbourne. The flight had been delayed and the airport bar in LA was closed, but I had a bottle in my carry-on, so we had had a few drinks together before we boarded the plane. His pride in his country was obvious as he drew me a detailed street map of Melbourne, including all major facets of the transportation system.
Then on the bus from the airport to the train station, the bus driver chatted me up the whole way and made numerous suggestions as to restaurants, places to go, etc., and provided a complete technical history of the "Puffing Billy" steam train.
In Sydney, I was sitting at the bar alone, having a drink while waiting for my room to be ready. This was clearly unacceptable to the two Australian couples in there, who insisted that I join them. Within an hour, we knew all about each other's hobbies, ethnic backgrounds, etc. Twice Aussies I've just met have invited me home. That might possibly happen between two single guys in the US but these were couples who invited me home. Never happen in the US and definitely would never happen in western Europe (well, never say never but it would be very rare). Maybe y'all get lonely because it is such a big country with such a low population density?
Then on a later trip I met an Aussie gal (who actually turned out to be a Kiwi but I didn't find that out for a few years) who was travelling by herself in South America. Not too many American women have the stones to do that. The American woman I was travelling with couldn't believe it and was very concerned for her safety. She was a tiny little thing too. The Aussie gal was like, "Ah, no worries."
I did find Australian men to be rather overtly macho, which is fine by me. I didn't hear anything racist or sexist out of anyone and as long as I don't have to put up with that, raging tetosteronal behavior is a good think.
And I think I already mentioned how friendly, straightforward, and yet completely ladylike the hookers were ...
Definitely Australian women are more "masculine" than American women as far as fitting in with sports talk and so forth. And boy, do they swear a lot as compared to American women. I like that too, actually. I would say you could put women in a continuum: Latinas - Americans and Canadians - Western Europeans - Oz and New Zealand. That takes you from the most "traditionally feminine" to the least traditionally feminine.
I love Oz. Too bad your immigration policies are so bloody tight. I'd move there in a heartbeat.
However, I would caution against making assumptions about American men or American women based on what you read on this board because there is probably a very low percentage of conservatives on this board than in our population as a whole. There are a lot of right-wingers in the US. Similarly, my perception of Oz and New Zealand are probably skewed by spending most of my time hangin out on the streets, in bars, and in brothels as opposed to attending meetings of the Perth cultural and historical society!
Hi RN,
As always, thanks for your informative and lucid responses. I now have a better understanding and appreciation of not only the subject matter but also the cultural forces which must always be factored in. Lady, it's educational being around you.
Regarding how the women responded (or actually their lack of response) that evening really drives home how cultural and environmental forces shape how we respond to this basic human function called SEX which, as we all know, has been transpiring between men and women since the origin of our species. I've mentioned to my students more than once that sex between humans existed milllions and millions of years before religious and Victorian morals. In a way, certain institutions have "hijacked" this basic human function. I always react with anger when I hear on the news how a woman and her guy were "busted" for prostitution. Who gave local governments the right to control and punish people for engaging in a basic human activity? I also think that the local cops and district attorneys enjoy this activity largely because they're voyeuristic, like all of us, and it's very low risk for them. Why don't they go out and tangle with REAL criminals? Sorry, I'm rambling.
Never having been to Oz, I can't comment on differences but I think that Dickhead (he's no Dickhead by the way) accurately characterized matters. American women are b*tchy and a world-wide phenomenon. I know that I'm generalizing but having been to many different countries and cultures, the differences are startling to say the least. Upon your and Dickhead's recommendations, Oz is definitely on my itinerary.
Again, thanks for the information and clarity.
P.S. Excellent posting Dickhead.
I completely agree with you, Dickhead, and I'd add one more thing -- my experience in Oz was that people were far less likely to take offense than here in the states, or perhaps more accurately, they were more likely to take taking offense as just a normal thing that one could get over and forget as quickly as it happened. Far too little of that in the states. And I found that also to be true for Aussie women -- yes, aggressive and brash but in a far more jovial way than American women, who take a no in a situation like that as a comment upon everything holy as opposed to a situational response. (And I'd actually say that American women by and large have lost understanding of situational responses -- everything flies immediately to either their self-image or to a general societal statement as opposed to no meaning no.) I think Americans are generally fairly friendly and open compared to many other parts of the world, certainly less judgemental in terms of social status issues in terms of people doing specific jobs, but we definitely have a kind of false politeness that is a way of holding people at arms length. In the US when we say, "I'll be there later" or "in a few minutes" it's often considered a low-offense way of saying, "why don't you screw off" but in other parts of the world it is considered a promise of future interaction.
Personally, I think Americans in general are gradually turning into Brits (as it seems portions of society have always aspired to) in terms of a nasty undercurrent of superiority and holier-than-thou-ness, but perhaps that's one of the negative side-effects of being the big kid on the block. And American women have lamentably been leading that charge.
Yes, JZ, agree that Americans are pretty friendly and also generous and helpful, but just not really very gregarious. We'll help you with your heavy package, or help you push your car if it stalls, but then we want to get back into our cars as fast as possible and get home to watch (insert favorite inane, brain-softening TV show here) rather than pursue the acquaintance any farther.
And yeah, Paddy, even though I got the nickname from a physical anomaly, I'm a Dickhead. Trust me.
CBGBConnisur
11-01-02, 02:32
Dating an American woman is just a great way to lose the shirt off your back, that is all American women want money. Look what happened in the Jack Welch divorce case, Mrs. Welch soon to be ex is going to get $150 Million!!!!, yet she is going to fight for more!!! As that isn't enough for a tired old hag such has herself!! Boy what old Jack could have got in Europe for that much cash!!! He would get enough hot sex for a a few milleniums!! Boy what a sucker. It makes me feel great that I have finally seen the light and will not have sex with American women and avoid them totally.
Rubber Nursey
11-01-02, 02:51
Wow Dickhead...as a 'lil Aussie patriot, let me just say THANKS! :) That was a beautiful post, and it really fits with everything that *I* believe about Oz and it's people. I'm so glad to know that it's not just my own biased opinion...and I'm truly happy to think that tourists are leaving our country with such an impression. Not allowing someone to drink alone is definitely part of our pub culture, and it doesn't surprise me at all that people invited you home with them. Sadly it's changing a little as our crime rates rise, but I think, at heart, 'mateship' is still VERY important to most Australians.
And don't worry...I wasn't really making any assumptions about the behaviour/traits/political opinions of American men and women. I was more or less just getting the impression that the 'traditional' gender stereotypes were a little further apart than ours were. Like you saying that Oz women were more "masculine" than American women...that was more or less what I was presuming too. (And yes...we do swear something terrible! I never really noticed it until I read the online Dictionary of Slang, and realised just how many four-letter words were an everyday part of our language).
Joe..."No Worries, Mate" is our unofficial national motto! Life is too short to hold a grudge. :)
Paddy...you're welcome. :) Please remember that my opinions are only my own though...not only as an individual woman, but as a 'foreigner' too...so I may be wrong about American women's attitudes to sex. My comments were only conjecture, but I would presume that sexism (or the social taboos around women's sexuality) is worldwide, and that my experiences with it would be similar to those of American women.
Plus, Aussie or not, I can say "Hell yeah, we masturbate all the time" much more easily on an anonymous prostitution board, than women drinking with a group of friends can!
Masturbation is a wonderful thing. I grew up very poor (so poor I had to jack off the dog just to feed the cat), and if I didn't wake up with a hard on, I had nothing to play with for the rest of the day.
FYI - according to CNN, a recent discovery by scientists explains it all..............
Story is, in a common US-resident type of small lizards the females are in total control of the sex and reproduction stuff.
Not only does the female have full exclusive control of her choice of partner(s), but when seeking a "live-in" mate, the female will invariably seek out the male who occupies the biggest and most comfy rock, whether that male is big or small.
But she will then also mate with several big mates who are not live-ins, and something in her system ensures that her male offspring stems from the big male partners........ All while living with the tiny oldie with the big rock......
Enough said...... :-)
I saw a news report that more females nowadays are cheating on their husbands than in the older days where men had more power. This is related to Traveller's analogy of the lizard. Since women's power grew over the past years especially since the 70s and women started having more rights than men, women are less afraid to cheat on their husbands because they can get away with it with less dire consequences than a cheating husband. A cheating wife doesn't lose a house or custody of a kid but a cheating husband can lose ALL of his assets AND the kids. Before the empowerment of women, a cheating wife had no power and if she was caught cheating she gets almost nothing and loses her source of income which is her husband. Women back in the 20s did not work and were housewives. Husbands back then were more likely to cheat because they held more power. Now women have more rights than men and aren't afraid to cheat on their husbands because we've been neutered with divorce laws that ALWAYS work against us even if we hire the best and most expensive lawyers and even if the WOMAN is caught cheating. We can't win these divorce cases no matter what we do and the woman never loses anything except maybe custody of the kid only if she is an abuser. For those poor souls getting a divorce, I would take all my assets and leave America and settle down in some foreign island with the rest of the money and maybe start a business to continue cash flow.
Hi Darkseid,
I was intrigued by your recommendation of guys going through a divorce to liquidate their assets and get out of the country. I agree completely. My best friend's wife was screwing around and, of course, he's about to get 33% of his wages garnished before taxes (he has two kids) so she can sit home and go shopping for the rest of her life. Long story.
In any event, I recommended the same thing to him in terms of consolidating his assets and leaving the country for Costa Rica or something several months ago. Do you know where a guy can actually get information about doing such a thing? There have to be many issues in terms of laws, visas, taxes, where to stash your money, etc. I've heard of guys using off shore accounts in the Bahamas, Cayman Islands, etc. Is there a "book" or "guide" or some sort of resource out there to help coach a guy through such a maneuver? It's a huge, huge step and needs to be done correctly.
Any information would be greatly appreciated. Do any of you other guys out there know of any such resources?
Thanks
Paddy
Sinanju Master
11-08-02, 02:55
Paddy, allow me to step in and dole out some advice on your request. First of all, my heart goes out to the guy who's gonna end up subsidizing the financial black hole that is his soon-to-be-ex wife. While she sits on her ass watching soaps, eating bon-bons and aspiring to look like Mimi (from the Drew Carey Show), fucking every stiff prick of age and filling her kids' heads full of negative propaganda about her soon-to-be ex, he MAY get a pittance of visitation and constant threats of withholding such custody from his ex. My best friend's brother ended up being hubby number FOUR when he thought he was number TWO (she treated him like "Number TWO, if you know what I mean! ;-)) and during the divorce proceedings, (the marriage lasted a few days less than six months) she tried to have the court make him give her HALF his assets AND pay to remove her mini-boulders that she grew to dislike! How's THAT for balls? Anyway, Paddy, I HIGHLY suggest that you and any guy who's sick and tired of falling prey to these financial vampires buy a book titled: "How To Be Invisible", by J.J. Luna. It was printed by St. Martin's Press and I can not POSSIBLY overemphasize the value of this book. It starts out telling the reader that there is a very good chance that at least ONCE in your lifetime, you WILL BE SUED. We all know this is the most litigious nation on the face of the earth: ANYONE can sue anyone ELSE for ANYTHING. This book is worth MORE than its weight in gold! I hope this helps!
Hi Paddy,
Anyone who is getting a divorce would have to liquify all his assets into cash (including the house and cars. Sell everything!!) Get a passport and visa to a place other than Europe because if you go to Europe you'll get caught because of the ties the US has with that continent. So I would recommend Latin America the Carribeans or Asia where they cannot track you. Basically once you get a divorce you are treated as a criminal anyway and if you don't pay half your paycheck, you'll be thrown in jail. If you do, all you are is just a prisoner that is just not behind bars because you work 40 hours a week and give your money to Mimi from Drew Carey. That is why you must leave the US anonymously and live like an underground person. Open a cash business and hide all IDs and passports and assume a different name. (You may still need your US passport in case you get into this bind in your new country.) I stress that you need to run things with cash because setting up a bank account would get you traced. If you have no accounts anywhere, they cannot trace where your new home is. Avoid credit cards as well. Buy your new home with the cash that you would have lost if you have gone through the divorce.
Rubber Nursey
11-08-02, 16:10
Paddy,
You said: "he's about to get 33% of his wages garnished before taxes (he has two kids) so she can sit home and go shopping for the rest of her life."
Are you saying that 33% of his wages amounts to enough for her to support herself and two children?
If so, then the 77% that he is left with must be a HUGE amount of money. And if not, she most certainly won't be sitting on her arse watching TV all day...she'll have to work one job to pay the balance of the expenses and that means paying for childcare, which practically needs a second job to cover the cost of it!
It got me angry a few months back, and it's got me angry again. How DARE these men whine and cry about having to pay child support? How DARE they consider liquidating their assets...or even creating a new identity!!...solely so that they can deprive their children of money??? I don't give a shit whether it was the husband or the wife who did the screwing around...the kids DIDN'T DO IT! Why punish THEM???
Now I'm sure you all know my position on alimony....I don't understand the concept (because we don't really have it here) and I don't see any reason for it in most cases. But I DO see the reason for child support...and that's because the kids are YOUR responsibility as well. If this guy has to pay 33% of his wage to his children...stiff shit, I say! I have to pay, at the very least, 80% of my wages to my children. Accommodation, school, clothes, food, travel, utilities...it all costs me three times more than it costs my ex-husband, because he's alone and I am a family of three. 33% (and it's only 18% here) is bugger all compared to what I spend. I don't feel sorry for your mate at all.
And you can flame me all you like, guys...I won't budge on this topic. You get a woman pregnant...you bear the consequences. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.
Well, RN, I agree wholeheartedly with your views about men supporting their children, as I have stated before (me, I had an operation to prevent that crap), but I would like to point out that 33% + 77% = 110%. Maybe this is why you have money problems from time to time? :)
A lot of divorce money goes to alimony which is money that the wife sues the ex husband for for herself. If she doesn't accept what the ex husband gives her for support of the child and she wants to be greedy and sues for a third or more of his salary and assets then she deserves to be stiffed. Some ex-wives won't even let the ex husband even 500 yard away from their kids. These are the women that MUST be taught a lesson. If she is however a good woman and accepts only child support (NO ALIMONY!) AND she lets the ex-husband see the kids at least for the weekends then I support the idea that the ex-husband must stay here and pay 18-20% of his wages to support the kids. I think greedy bitches should be screwed over for being that way.
Sinanju Master
11-09-02, 00:28
UNDENIABLE FACT: kids should be provided for through a mutual and equitable agreement made by the parents if said parents are going to separate. I have NO argument with that. If a man helped bring kids into the world, he should step up to the plate and face the "Nolan Ryan special" that's bound to head his way. What I DO have problems with is the type of woman who would act as a Hoover on her ex's wallet while at the same time, attempting to deprive a father of deserved time with his children and filling their heads with half-truths or outright lies in order to tarnish his image in their eyes while painting herself as the innocent victim. Too many times, men have to walk on eggshells and grind their teeth to get visitation and to prevent threats from a woman that she will seek to enforce through the man-hating court system.
RN: I've read only a few of your posts and I bang my head against the wall when I hear of women hooking up with slime that are analagous to Dr. Henry Jekyll: he's brilliant, dashing, exciting (choose your own superlative to fill in the blank) in the beginning, but Mr. Hyde takes over and BAM! These women are then in a situation that they should have instinctively known FROM THE BEGINNING wouldn't work. I'm sorry you've met up with quite a few cads, and red-cape-and-red-boot wearing guy-defender that I am, I do NOT defend the stool samples I've read about that turned your life upside down.
Darkseid, I like the way you think, regarding the adherence to cash-only. However, I DO believe that if you employ a little guile, you can still live through accounts and credit cards if you watch your P's and Q's.
Rubber Nursey
11-09-02, 04:01
LOL Dickhead! You're right...it seems I'M the dickhead this time. :) I was a bit pissed off when I was writing that, so I must have got confused (that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it!)
sinanjumaster,
I didn't mean to sound like I was looking for pity. I only relate my experiences as examples, and I do it because so many men in here seem to have warped ideas about what it's like to be a single Mum. I just get so tired of these guys who are so hung up about "paying the ex-wife". That is NOT what child support is, and I get the impression that a lot of these guys honestly don't see that! Alimony...yes, that's a different story (although I do believe it could be fair in some cases). But child support is not something that should be dodged.
I do agree with you that some women are just out to screw their ex husbands over financially, and I do think that practice is revolting. I also absolutely ABHOR people using children as tools for bartering...give me heaps of cash or you'll never see the kids again. However, if men run off to avoid the alimony claims, etc...their kids miss out. It's not fair to punish the children for the sins of their parents.
And I must say, even though I think it is disgusting that women would not let the men see their children...I don't believe that means they shouldn't have to pay child support. Whether or not you are actually involved in your children's life, you are still their father. If someone took my kids away from me and I was never going to see them again, I would still want to know in my heart that they had everything they needed. I would pay money for them even if I wasn't seeing them.
Hi RN & Guys,
I seem to have triggered quite a firestorm here. All I was looking for was some information for a desperate friend.
In reference to my friend that will be having 33% of his wages garnished, his soon to be ex. is already living with another guy and neither of the two kids live with her. My friend has one child living at home with him and another away at school. He pays for everything for the kids. Always has and always will. His ex is overweight, unskilled and profoundly lazy. Despite this he will still be getting 33% of his wages garnished due to the draconian divorce laws in Wisconsin. Lawyers say it's the worst state in America.
I agree 100% that men are responsible for their children and their overall welfare. Absolutely! I not only believe this but practice what I preach and am still totally supporting my last child who is a graduate student at an elite private university. This school costs $9,800 per semester not to mention her room and board, books, the lease on her car, etc. etc. It's the best money I've ever spent and am happy to do it. However, does the mother have no responsibilites? Is it her responsibility to stay out at night boozing and having encounters with strange men? Is it her responsibility to stay at home, not work and contribute nothing? This is an atypical case I suppose but this guy has really been screwed.
So, again, any more advice on getting out of the USA? Where to go and how to go about it?
Even if my good friend does leave the country, he will still support his children but wants the money to somehow go DIRECTLY to them and not through his ex. If the money goes to her first, the kids will never see it. If you knew the circumstances, this is not an irrational fear by any means.
So, I guess that I should have thrown out more details to begin with. This guy is a decent and professional person who married the wrong girl. We tried to tell him this before he married her but he was "in love" and wasn't listening. Sound familiar?
Regards,
Paddy
Rubber Nursey
11-10-02, 04:10
Paddy,
Now I DO feel decidedly sorry for your mate! Sorry I jumped the gun, but I figured the '(he has two kids)' in your original post meant that was who the money was for. Alimony is something else. How does that work? How does a woman manage to get alimony when she's already living with someone else and doesn't even have custody of the kids? Your divorce laws suck!
But seriously though, you said the kids already live with your mate. Is he intending on dumping them in order to run away from the ex? What is he going to do with them? Isn't there any way he can fight this, without losing his kids, and win??? If he leaves the country and disappears he may never see his kids again. Could he really live like that? It's just that it's so rare to see a man who was granted custody, and it usually only seems to happen if the woman is an unfit mother or if she didn't WANT them. If that's the case, is he considering leaving the kids with that sort of woman? This all seems terribly unfair...how can these b*tches live with themselves??!!
As for not listening to your friends when they tell you your partner sucks...my best friend told me not to marry my ex, and I ignored her. Then two years later I told her I hated HER new partner, and she ignored me. We are now both divorced! LOL We have promised to listen to each other from now on. :)
Hi RN,
No problem with jumping the gun as you put it.
My friend's ex. is living with her "lover" in another city now. My friend's daughter is living with him at his home because she didn't want to leave her high school, friends, etc., and move to another city to be with her mom. She's only 17. The oldest is away at school in Arizona and is quite independent.
Despite this, his ex. is going to get 33% of his monthly salary or else she can get half his pension account, half the house, half his investments, etc. The laws in my state are really irrational and very much favor the woman.
Yes, we've discussed the loss of contact with his kids to the point of exhaustion. It's really painful stuff and there are no viable solutions. He's really disillusioned and it's a no win situation. He vascillates back and forth. One possibility is to cut his losses, leave the states and start over if and only if he can channel money to his kids for the next few years without his ex. or the courts intercepting it. He's working on a process to do this right now.
You know, RN, this guy is 49 years old and he honestly wonders why his life and his future should be decimated by his ex. and the courts. He's worked very hard in life and has done all of the right things. His only mistake was to marry this woman.
By the way, He's checking into Oz and New Zealand as possible places to emigrate amongst others. Are these viable options in your opinion or is he better off in Bora Bora or something?
Thanks,
Paddy
Rubber Nursey
11-10-02, 07:12
Paddy,
I don't know a hell of a lot about it, but I believe Australia's immigration policies are extremely tight. I'm not sure that a man his age could get residency very quickly here... if at all. Don't take my word for it, but I'm pretty sure he'd find it difficult. (I think Dickhead looked into this too?) Australia and New Zealand have special agreements between each other, but I know nothing about NZ's policies regarding people from other countries.
Re: paying the kids directly...has he looked into Internet banking? He could put money into an internet account from anywhere in the world, and they could just transfer from the net it into their personal accounts. I just can't believe this alimony thing. How long are these 33% payments to the ex supposed to last? And doesn't the fact that she's living with someone else come into account? Sheesh...it's so ridiculous!
"this guy is 49 years old and he honestly wonders why his life and his future should be decimated by his ex. and the courts. His only mistake was to marry this woman."
I know exactly how he feels on this one. It's so sad that people can do this sort of thing to each other...and their children. And people wonder why I am determined to stay single these days!
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"
Should be more like "Have a child with a girl in the US and you're screwed"
Here is my suggestion for your friend Paddy: Agree to the 33% wage deal as divorce terms. As I read your last point this means he gets to keep the house, investments, etc... Once this is finalized he should immediately sell everything he owns and transfer it to an offshore company that he has created for himself. Now that all his assets are out of the country (and safe) he can declare bankruptcy in the US. Depending on the type of work he does, he can then operate his business out of the other country... thus denying the wife her alimony... and she didn't get half he owns either.
He cannot just cash in everything now and run to another country. The wife's lawyers will slap a hold on all assets and he'll lose them. If he does manage to escape with the goodies a judge will declare him a felon and he will be arrested if he ever returns to the US (to see his daughter).
By doing this he can continue to see his daughter, give her money without the wife garnishing it, and live in the US legally.
From what I've read/discussed with others it will require approximately 10 to 15 000 dollars to hire a consultant to arrange the offshore accounts. He will also have to pay the taxes for cashing in his pension fund, investments etc... an accountant can figure out how to defer some of this too.
Good luck
On a personal note: I too have recently been stung by the AW.
My GF has a job where she works 10 to 12 hours per day, plus 4 more on saturday (for a 40 hour week salary, and the company does not give her time off in lieu of overtime - why do people in the US put up with this??? - in Japan they would call this working oneself to death) and is therfor constantly tired. She has little to talk about other than work (because that's her entire life), and can't keep her eyes open past 11:00. For the past 2 months we have been doing nothing but going out for dinner, fucking, and sleeping away saturday and sunday. I'm bored out of my tree and have not been putting any effort into the relationship for the past 6 weeks. The sex is boring... I do all the work and she's given up her blowjob training courses. I know she won't back down on work, she's a habitual over-achiever, and sacrificed an ideal family life to move to Florida and pursue her career/school. She has proven many times that nothing will come between her and her (in my opinion) pointless careerism. On top of this she has become clingy and seems to think I should move in with her when she buys a house in the new year.
To get to the point...
I told her that I was not happy with her over working, her moving the relationship at too fast a pace, and think it's time to end things. She goes ballistic and tells me that I've been neglecting her (which I have... for the above reasons) and that I'm a total bastard. Now when we talk she always has a snide remark about me in some part of our dating (I told her I could stay with her if some things changed). So far, nothing has changed.
So this is what I get for being honest and mature with a girl: Misery. Had I just called up one day and said "have a good life" I would be free. But nooooo... I decide to be a decent guy and tell her the truth.
I'm sooooo... Fedup
Rubber Nursey
11-11-02, 06:57
And that's exactly why I don't want a partner!
My advice to you Fedup, would be....
If you love something, set it free.
If it comes back, it's yours.
If it doesn't...it never was.
An oldie but a goodie. If you stay with her and wait "until things change" there is a good chance that it will just go nowhere. Won't get better and it won't get worse...it'll just drag on like it is now. You have no motivation to leave because you are waiting for her to change, and she has no motivation to change because she knows you're not leaving. I say end it. If she truly loves you, she will make the necessary changes to win you back. If she doesn't bother, then at least you know sooner rather than later.
Yeah I know...I'm a callous b*tch. Women suck.
Rubber Nursey
11-11-02, 07:02
Oh, by the way...I have ten cigarettes left. When they're gone, I'm not buying any more.
Well, I'm gonna try not to...
Wish me luck. :)
Sinanju Master
11-12-02, 05:02
C'mon RN! LOL You know yer gonna have a Jones fer the nicotine soon after that tenth ciggie has burned its last ember...
1] The check's in the mail
2] You're the best I've ever had
3] Size doesn't matter
Seriously though, cold turkey IS possible... my old man smoked heavily until 1975 and went cold turkey EVER SINCE. I don't like him as a person, but that is one accomplishment I have to begrudgingly admire him for.
Hi RN and Fed Up,
Thanks for your thoughts in reference to my friend and his attempts to extricate himself from a bad, bad situation.
He's working with a trusted accountant who has advised some of the things that you suggested. Lawyers here will not help him because they would be assisting potentially felony behavior on his part.
The idea of internet banking to get money to his kids is an excellent one. Also, his accountant suggested that he take the 33% hit, liquidate his assets and then escape. Still, the only way he'll see his kids is if they come to visit him - wherever that might be.
Yes, Fed Up, having a kid with an American woman is a real dangerous undertaking given the laws here. When it comes to divorce law in America, guys are at a real disadvantage.
Good luck quitting smoking RN. It's not easy but you're a rather strong willed and tenacious person. In other words, if anyone can quit you're the kind of person that can. One last thing. Every medical study that comes out in the states about smoking indicates that it is sooo dangerous that it almost defies description. I'm sure that they're saying the same thing is Oz too. Again, best of luck.
PS My friend has confirmed your views on immigration to Oz. I think that he's focusing on New Zealand instead.
Paddy
Hey, this one just to say go RN about curbing fags!
Also let me throw here a link to help those willing to leave the US
http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/argentine_option.htm
It is pointing the Argentina option above because it is now without a doubt one of the best places in the world to escape (guys, if you don't read already the Buenos Aires section, begin now), but pretty much all the countries are covered.
respect to all
Rubber Nursey
11-12-02, 11:12
sinanjumaster...you're wrong! I lasted the whole dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!! (Although I'm shaking like a leaf and I'm pretty sure my head is about to implode LOL). I'm using patches so I'm cheating a bit...but it seems to be working so far.
Thanks for the encouragement you guys. :)
Hey Paddy,
If your friend already has money saved up, he can live with his children comfortably for the rest of their lives in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. The currency exchange is excellent because 3 reais equals 1 US dollar. If he has a house and sells it and also transfers his assets to a brazilian account, he probably doesn't have to work or could own a moderately profitable business in Rio. Rio has the benefits of a big city and a tropical beach. College in Rio is FREE, unlike American colleges. You just have to make a B+ grade point average (or else you go to a catholic university which costs $1500 a semester). Brazil also has a very lenient immigration policy.
As for the divorce laws in Brazil, you might lose half of your assets you earned AT THE TIME YOU WERE MARRIED. That means if you earned $10,000 during the marriage but owned a house before that, she ONLY gets $5,000 and nothing more. It would therefore be best to buy ythe house before getting married. If you end up stuck again, move to another country and liquidate the assets. Moving to another country gives you a clean slate and federal officials won't be able to track you.
I read your friend would like to go to New Zealand. I heard it is also nice. I hope your friend could get in there because moving out of the US would be best. He also has to keep a low profile while you leave so that's why it's best to liquidate and don't use the credit card for flights or housing arrangements. Divorced husbands in the US have the same rights as criminals (which is very unfortunate) so you have to keep low like one until you get settled in your new home.
Manofkosice
11-13-02, 19:51
I would say that your friend should avoid buying a house (at least in his own name). It is safer to rent and pay cash. The most important thing is to get some kind of alternative ID that will allow you to get do things.
In any Western European city the Albanian mafia will sell you an Italian ID card for around 200 dollars. Use a non-Italian name though, and say that you just have citizenship, or you will get busted when people find out you don't speak Italian. You really need some kind of a passport though, as you need your new country to stamp your residence permit in an actual passport.
Also, the cash business. It depends what he does, but he should probably spread any investments around about a bit to avoid getting burnt or ripped off.
If he is American then he can probably make a living (payment in cash) by teaching English to advanced students (where you don't need to speak the other language) in almost any country in the world; so he has that an insurance option if things mess up. (same thing applies in a lot of countries for French, Germans, Italians, Spanish speakers, etc although English language is easiest to find customers for). If he also pays his rent in cash then there is no official trace of him anywhere. If he goes for that option then he also doesn't absolutely need residence or a work permit in the country, although that is going to be the legal requirement in most places.
Getting money back to the kids. Western Union (ie where you walk into a WU store and hand over cash, and they hand it over the same amount minus fees at another store, to another person you name on the other side of the world) is a good way of sending money. I'm not sure if the recipient would find out which country the money had been sent from. If so, and he thinks the kids might let it slip, then he needs a third person (like you Paddy), to pick up the money from WU and hand it over to the kids in person.
OK, I rather feel the need to weigh in here with at least one discouraging word, since this whole concept has gotten pretty universal sympathy and support. While I do have a great deal of sympathy for this guy, who is clearly (or at least is presented as) a prime example of a relationship gone bad and the dark side of divorcelaws, there's also a point at which this becomes a little silly -- give up a professional career, a house, your children, go work under an assumed name perhaps in a third world country, getting a low-paying job teaching English, living like a criminal, and so forth, all to avoid unjust divorce laws. You can even deal with the mafia for fake ID cards, great. Surely the law of diminishing returns has to kick in here somewhere along the line.
Doesn't this approach basically say, ok, I now wish to wear sackcloth and ashes and brand myself as a victim for all time? What about actually getting on with your life? The one-third of his income that he'd have to give up would still leave him with a far greater income and style of living than he's likely to end up with overseas. And there still are no doubt legal recourses he's not exhausted -- alimony isn't always all that cut and dried, and it's also subject to change based on future circumstance.
Again, I've great sympathy for this guy, but somewhere along the line there also needs to be a reality check so you're not truly thinking that it's your only option -- there certainly are other folks who have survived going down this route -- so you are able to make cogent choices. The bottom line is that the breakup of a long marriage is always going to be hugely traumatic no matter what the circumstance, and he should think about how much that is also factoring into the equation.
Hi Joe, Mano, Darkseid & RN,
Thanks for all the input and excellent ideas. My friend is surprisingly working on many of the ideas you people thought of independently.
Yes, Joe, trashing his career, job, home, leaving his country and his whole way of life is almost unthinkable. What really galls him, however, is that his to be ex. is going to get 33% if his monthly wages before taxes while she's living with lover boy. She'll never marry the guy because under state law she would lose the money. His ex. and her boyfriend will just sit back and collect his hard earned money month after month after month this way. Sweet deal for the two of them. It's like a 3rd income for the two of them. By the way, she told my friend that she'll take him for everything he's got. She declared that she'll "ruin' him if it's the last thing she ever does.
I guess that he needs to get away and start over. On the net he came across a group of divorced American guys who have settled somewhere in the Netherlands. They seem to like it there and the Dutch women are very accomodating and liberated compared to Americans.
Thanks again.
Paddy
Hey Paddy,
Divorce is always an offspring of hate- hatred between a married couple in a marriage gone sour. It ALWAYS leads to revenge and usually the woman gets the last laughs. Obviously this woman is really out to get your friend Paddy and she will sue for more if given even a slightest opportunity. It starts off at 33% of his wages but she'll want more and she'll try to even sue for 66% like what happened to my unfortunate co-worker who gets his wages garnished for alimony, child support (the only thing he should be responsible for) and mortgage payments to the house that now belongs to his ex-wife. NOT including the child support, he garnishes 50% of his paycheck for the mortgage and alimony. With the child support, it's 70% which leaves him 30% for himself BEFORE taxes then he gets taxed a third of that so he's left with 20% to spend on himself and on top of that his retirement contributions were compromised as well. He makes $65,000 a year before taxes and he is only entitled to $13,000 of that after taxes, alimony, child support, and his wife's house is paid off. The only merciful thing his wife left him was visitation rights to the kids on weekends and that was after months of grovelling. $13,000 a year is not a well off income and is as much as what a cashier in Starbucks makes. He was forced to live with his parents and sell his car because he couldn't afford gas and car insurance. He basically lives like a pauper. The New York State divorce laws really sucks and are probably written by nazi-feminists because he is taken to the cleaners. If he fled to a Third world country with all his saved income, he would have lived a better life. He could have liquidated his house and assets and bought a house and owned a business in Brazil or Dominican Republic and work as a cop and still make more than $13,000US per year. A cop in DR makes $15,000US per year or in Brazil they make $21,000. Still much better than $13,000. So Paddy, get your friend to leave this place and declare bankruptcy here besides sex is practically illegal here anyway and we all travel to foreign countries to get it. If it is legal here, we wouldn't be going thousands of miles for it. Yes America is the best country to make money but it is only UNTIL YOU GET DIVORCED. The reason I didn't move is that I am not divorced and I get to enjoy all of my paycheck after taxes ($65K wages - $18K taxes = $47K spending money). If I were to get into that hairy situation, I'd leave this country also no matter how good it is but this country will treat you bad if you are a divorced man. Best of luck to your friend, Paddy, and I hope he gets away free from this horrible mess.
Darkseid
Perhaps your friend should hire a detective to follow the ex for a week and report on her doings. If he can discredit her claims of poverty (she's living with another man, both having jobs, etc...) then he's a step ahead. If he presents an offer to the judge to open a trust fund in the daughters name at the same time, the judge might see him as a reasonable man and cancel the alimony.
This detective may also be able to prove that the ex was dating the guy while your friend was still living with her. If that's the case the judge will cite her for abandonment and adultry. Sure grounds for refusal of alimony.
That may or may not work. Sometimes it doesn't because she will use Paddy's friend's money to hire a much better lawyer and remember, the laws ALWAYS favors the wife even if she was cheating. That's unfortunate in America but that's the way it is. There is always cases in which this fails and it's always becuase the judge favors the ex-wife and because she has a better lawyer. The lawyer can say that she gave up 10 years of her life taking care of the household instead of finding a career and the judge will definitely reward her for "lost income" for being a housewife whether she cheats or not. She could argue that she could have went to college for 4 years and worked a career for the other six but instead she had to stay home and tend the kids and take care of the house. She would argue that she deserves compensation for that service and that since she maintained and kept the house she deserves to keep it. The judge will forget about the fact that the husband paid for the house in the first place. However, if Paddy's friend has the better lawyer and the judge happens to be a male divorcee himself, the odds could go in HIS favor for refusal of alimony.
Manofkosice
11-14-02, 19:43
Originally posted by joe_zop
OK, I rather feel the need to weigh in here with at least one discouraging word, since this whole concept has gotten pretty universal sympathy and support. While I do have a great deal of sympathy for this guy, who is clearly (or at least is presented as) a prime example of a relationship gone bad and the dark side of divorcelaws, there's also a point at which this becomes a little silly -- give up a professional career, a house, your children, go work under an assumed name perhaps in a third world country, getting a low-paying job teaching English, living like a criminal, and so forth, all to avoid unjust divorce laws. You can even deal with the mafia for fake ID cards, great. Surely the law of diminishing returns has to kick in here somewhere along the line.
Doesn't this approach basically say, ok, I now wish to wear sackcloth and ashes and brand myself as a victim for all time? What about actually getting on with your life? The one-third of his income that he'd have to give up would still leave him with a far greater income and style of living than he's likely to end up with overseas. And there still are no doubt legal recourses he's not exhausted -- alimony isn't always all that cut and dried, and it's also subject to change based on future circumstance.
What you say is bascially true. It depends a lot on his life in the USA and what he feels about that generally. From what I can pick up from Paddy's posts he seems willing to give it up, and he has the resources not to need to teach (which by the way is quite well paid even in poorer countries if you consider the lower costs of living, and his ability as an American to land a job in the most expensive private schools for businessmen).
As for the thing about the sackcloth and ashes bit, well if he has the right attitude in his new country and doesn't think "I'm here because I am a victim", then he will probably have a ball. Most people who actually *choose* to become ex-pats do anyway. If he is sitting in the sun at a bar made of wood, and drinking beers costing 20 cents, then there isn't much "economic activity" going on that is going to show up in that countries GDP figures but his quality of life is fine, better than commuting and working 9-5 for some asshole boss in America. If he is the kind who needs a mercedes and a rolex then he has to stay in the west and keep working even harder but it sounds like he is willing to give up all that shit. Quality of life in is fine for people who live in poor countries but have enough money to keep from drowing - sure, feel sorry for the poor souls who live in the favelas and don't have enough to eat, but Paddy's friend won't be among them whatever happens.
Yeah, I agree that the mafia is a last resort - I just thought I should float the possibility. ;)
Hi Darkseid, Fedup, Joe and Mano.,
Many, many good points made but you wise gentlemen.
Yes, the ex-patriate move is a huge one and has to be executed correctly is it's to be done at all. Also, in my friend's case, it's irrevocable since he'll be out of compliance with the divorce decree when she doesn't have 33% of his salary coming. Darkseid, you made an excellent point in that she'll come after more that her 33% as time goes on. In fact, she's already threatening to go back to school which he'll have to pay for. In my state, one has to pay for her education until it's equivalent to his. He's an MBA so she can milk that one forever. By the way, she never contributed a dime to his tuition. He had his BS before he met her and his company paid his MBA tuition. It's an irrelevant point under the law according to his lawyer. She's also playing a few other angles already. She views him as a walking ATM machine I think. Typical stuff around here.
I hope that he can make it to some tropical paradise where he can hang out on the beach, drink beer and be appreciated by some senorita for the guy he.
If you take a step back and look at the plight of American men in terms of the women here and the fearsome divorce laws, well, we're really in an awful situation or state of affairs. You know, some guy could make a lot of money if he started a business assisting American men in becoming ex-patriates. You know, a package deal which would take care of visas, housing, banking and all of the other details which would be entailed in "escaping" America. Any entrepreneurs out there??? What do you think???
Paddy
Hey Paddy,
I like the idea. perhaps we can get others to plan this business to provide an escape for those divorced men. We also have to help them liquidate their assets, help them find a place to live and perhaps have a department to help them find employment in their new home. This would take some investments so we need to form a group and pool some money together and get some entreprenuers who ran successful businesses together who are divorcees themselves. My uncle is a victim of these horrible divorce laws also and he is poor and couldn't afford to buy me gifts. He also makes $60,000 a year as a transit authority engineer and gets his salary garnished by his ex. Not everyone likes to stay in Aerica for one reason or another and it is mainly because of the greedy American women who either are greedy in the first place and just married to clean out a poor guy she played or used to love the husband but grew weary of him and decided to split up and also take a severance pay. This situation is a great reason to leave this country. Once you are a divorced man, you lose the freedom that America promises. It should be rephrased land of the free for ALL Women and ONLY Single Guys!!
Hi Darkseid,
Man, there are sooo many guys like your uncle in the US of A. I'd bet that your uncle's ex. wife was a lousy lay on top of it!
I'd like to get together to formulate ideas but it will take money and I'm living on the edge right now. Just paid my daughter's tuition for the spring semester which was $9,800. This does not include her books, rent, food, car lease, etc., etc. So, realistically I can't throw in at this time but I do believe that there is a market there. You know, a type of "pipeline" to extricate guys from these types of situations.
One of the obstacles here is potentially a legal one. How can a company or service legally and publicly promote such a thing? Women and their state legislators (who heavily rely on the female vote) would be raising hell. They would immediately assert that such an entity or service is aiding and abetting guys in skipping out on their "responsibilities" and court decrees. The news media would also have a field day with such a concept. 50% of the people here are women and they would unanimously attack such a service or agency with a vengeance. So, it would have to be "underground" or disguised as a "travel" service or something.
Maybe a guy could do research and publish a book or guide for this purpose? Perhaps some of the national mens groups dealing with divorce would be agood starting place? Just random thoughts on my part.
Paddy
Rubber Nursey
11-18-02, 17:37
Guys...why bother setting up companies or writing books, when you could just try and change the bloody law???
Child support is a must. Alimony MAY be deserved in some cases. But paying 33% of your wage to a woman who's already living with someone else??? For God's sake...*I* am a woman and *I* think that's ridiculous! If you lobbied against this sort of thing, you would probably find more supporters than you think. Take it to court and make it a test case...write letters to the newspapers...make a website...get petitions signed. C'mon, would you rather leave your country and your children, just to escape alimony payments???
A few months ago, a couple of guys in this very forum told me I should leave WA and move to a more liberal state, rather than stay here and fight my state's prostitution laws. And force every other working girl after me to have to make the same decision? Should every Perth hooker have to leave this state in order to make a living? No...I'm going to stay and fight. While you guys are sitting here complaining about the divorce laws, thousands of other men are going through it as you speak. And there will be still more tomorrow. Unless you stand up and do something about it.
You'll have to excuse this little outburst (blame the nicotine withdrawals!!), but for crying out loud...in the eyes of the Government, apathy is seen as complicity. If you continue to lay on the ground like a doormat, they will continue to wipe their feet on you.
Sinanju Master
11-19-02, 03:25
RN, your words are easier said than done. In this country, ANY mention of something that suggests TRUE equality (or shall I say "equitability"?) between the sexes is interpreted by the frothing-at-the-mouth far-left-leaning Feminazis as an attempt to oppress women. The elected representatives of this country pander to those who can secure the most votes and American women can mobilize BETTER than the stormtroopers of the Galactic Empire. Such an attempt to change such biased laws will be met with such ferocity from women's groups and the spineless male elected represetatives that are their puppets, that it would die a swift, terrible death. Their (women's weapons) are a loud mouth (backed by faulty logic at best) anda never ending attempt to make others feel shame if an opinion other than theirs emerges. Finding a woman of your kind (one with common sense, a sense of humor and a desire for fairness) on these boards is like seeing a penguin in the desert. A WELCOME penguin. As my bretheren have suggested, the undertakings they have suggested HAVE to be done in secret. This country has been hijacked by the aforementioned group, and sadly, there is NO looking back.
Well, as a long-time activist, I've gotta disagree with that one. The utter reality is that laws are made and changed and public opinion is defined and promoted by small groups of committed or interested people. You don't have to have a majority to do anything, since the American majority is basically apathetic. Gays are hardly a majority, but their lot has improved immensely via legislation and legal actions in the past few decades and the same could be said of African-Americans. And you can't tell me that divorced men couldn't be a strong lobby -- it's certainly a large enough group, and you can talk all you want about how the feminazis have taken over, but the reality is that men still control the vast majority of money in this country, and money helps make for political change.
A "women in this country are all crap and men are just abused" approach is going to get you the nowhere that you deserve, but focused attention to specific injustices while providing a reasonable solution (and "men simply shouldn't have to pay anything" isn't going to do it) has always been and still is the prescription for change. Foaming at the mouth might make for good therapy, but it usually makes for lousy politics. (Not counting elections of course -- there's a certain percentage of mad dogs that simply must be elected for entertainment's sake.)
And I don't know the specifics of this particular state, but clear evidence of cohabitation with someone of the opposite sex has been used to reduce or eliminate alimony for many, many years. Throwing up your hands and pleading powerlessness means you're just whining.
Sinanju Master
11-19-02, 11:39
Tell the many men who have been forced to pay for children who are NOT their own that they are whining. Example: the common law derived from (pre?) colonial England that states that if a man has acted as a child's father for a given time (EVEN if it is NOT of his blood) he must accept that mantle and support it. There are LEGIONS of men in this country who have been forced to care for children who are not theirs (through the deceit of conniving women) because of this law. A case that has made national headlines is out of Pennsylvania. Woman sleeps with a man other than her hubby, has other guy's kid, lies to hubby for YEARS and leads him to think it's his (actually TWO KIDS that are not his), years later DNA says it is NOT, but he is still compelled by biased court system that he must pay DNA be damned. Divorced fathers HAVE an informal lobby, pal, but because they are MEN, and are perceived as running the country (only the RICH do that). they are "cut down to size" by a system biased toward a group that always goes to the well of having been oppressed for the past five millenia. Men may control the vast amount of money in this country, but marriage is like a cheetah waiting for a gullible antelope to wander across the Serengeti. It will hunt it down relentlessly. If it doesn't sink its teeth into said antelope THIS time, there is always the next time.
Well, "pal", hyperbole never begets change in law by itself, and throwing up your hands and saying "poor men" doesn't either. I didn't say the complaints weren't legitimate, I said that if you just complain you're a victim and don't work to make change then it is simply whining. As far as the divorced men's lobby, perhaps it's not because they're MEN, it's because they're a lousy lobby. They certainly wouldn't be the first one of those.
I've got a brother who was driven into bankruptcy because he was forced by the courts to pay for the lawyer for a crazy wfe who tried to kill him, and who is in exactly the same situation of taking care of a kid that isn't his via biology, and who lost everything he rebuilt in his second divorce. I completely agree that men often get a raw deal (as, in other cases, do women.) But if you take, as you've just done, every suggestion and criticism as an exercise in denial of the justice of your position, then you don't understand politics and lawmaking, are just venting, and deserve to just wallow because you're not truly interested in what it takes to make change happen.
Hi RN and Joe,
I'm compelled to agree with Sinanjumaster in reference to the virtual impossibility of getting current divorce laws changed at the state level. Getting current laws changed or altered by state assemblies is very, very difficult given the issues of actually getting a bill or law through commitee, actually getting it to the floor for a vote, hoping the governor won't veto it, etc. The "inertia" not to change existing laws is immense even for popular or politically correct issues.
For some state legislator to introduce legislation to "equalize" the divorce laws would be political suicide - not to mention an exercise in futility.
In my state we have DADS (dads against divorce) and these guys will give you an ear full. Every time they try to approach a state legislator or judge, these guys run for cover. They're not about to the alienate 50% of the voters in their districts. These guys aren't stupid. You can bet that if they showed even the slightest public sympathy to a group like DADS or their agenda, their opponents in the next election would exploit this to the Nth degree.
Joe, I agree with you that we should stop do it through the American political system. However, equalizing divorce laws at the state level is a very, very special case and an exercise in futility given the realities of the situation. This is a 'cat of a different color' to say the least.
Rubber Nursey
11-19-02, 15:04
sinanjumaster,
I doubt very much that the legislators sat down and just decided to give women everything and f*ck up men's lives. It would have been a response to people who lobbied against archaic laws that left women with absolutely nothing after years of marriage and child-rearing. People lobbying for women's rights complained about the inequality, and the Government responded. Now as we all know, politicians aren't the smartest people on earth and they are also some the laziest...they have a tendency to apply "band-aid" solutions wherever possible, just to shut people up or impress the voters. So of course, they probably didn't think the legislation through. But that doesn't mean that it's set in stone. Now YOU are suffering injustices and inequality...so YOU need to complain.
Divorce law is NOT a women vs men situation. Women are hurt every day by ridiculous divorce laws, just as men are. As I've said before, my ex-husband terrorised me and my children and threatened our lives, to the point where I actually had to move town and go into hiding...BUT, because he is my son's biological father, the law gives him "equal right" to a relationship with his child. So he gets regular access (that *I* have to pay half of the travel expenses for), HALF of every Christmas day (and because there are a couple of hundred miles between me and him, it means MY half of Christmas day with my son is spent driving to drop him off), and I am forced by law to leave my little one in the care of a drunken piece of...ummm...excrement, whether I like it or not. And do you know WHY our law is that way? Because MEN were not happy with the way WOMEN were "getting everything" under our divorce laws, and they complained. So our Government changed the laws again (and of course, idiots that they are, swung it too far back the other way).
So look at the issue rationally...don't stand outside Parliament (or whatever you call it) screaming about the injustices perpetrated against men. Don't protest against the "feminist" laws. Don't even bring gender into it! The reason the system needs to be changed is because the law is UNJUST, UNFAIR and UNWORKABLE. Find men AND women who have been screwed by the divorce system, and let the Government hear how it's hurting EVERYBODY. If you fight for simple EQUALITY, rather than "gender equality", you are more likely to receive support from many different sectors of society...including women. And with the support of both sexes during the lobbying process, you may even be able to get laws that suit EVERYBODY...not one sex over the other.
That's the very problem with this justice system. The law is one sided and favors one over the other without compromise. Judges tend to reward EVERYTHING to one party (in most cases the woman). Yes there are cases in which the woman gets screwed too and loses custody of the child or doesn't get her child support to raise the kid she does win custody over and that may be because she has a lousy lawyer. I firmly believe that the ex-husband should help in the expense of raising HIS BIOLOGICAL CHILD, but I am firmly against him being forced to pay for someone else's. Sometimes the judge even tranfers the responsibility of child support from the biological father to the step father which is TOTALLY unfair. He is forced to pay for the unbiological child just because the child lived with him for so many years which is a law I totally hate and the reason I am scared to death about dating and marrying single mothers. In fact I am scared of even being married at all in the USA.
In life we always have 2 options- fight or flight. But if fighting doesn't work and you can't win, you should take flight and leave before suffering more damage and I think leaving America would be best for divorced husbands with ex-wives looking to take him to the cleaners. There are more men than you think, Joe, that tried to fight the divorce laws but are fighting a losing battle because of complacent ploticians that want to kiss up to everybody. Divorced women make up 25% of the nation's population (Being that divorce rate is 60% and that 85% of us get married at one point or another because of the pressure from our parents or the pressure of wanting kids). Not everyone has a good heart like RN. Some women are more vicious than your worst enemies after a divorce and are out to get you. Divorce also spawns hate. The ex-wife thinks she wasted time on you and then decides she should be compensated for "doing you the favor of being with you". Hell with that, just leave and screw vicious women like these because they deserve to be screwed. Just send the money she may need to raise the kid by western union so you won't be traced.
Marriage is a bullshit system. Don't get married and you won't have all these problems you are WHINING about.
Rubber Nursey
11-19-02, 16:09
I think it's sad that people are willing to avoid marriage just so they can avoid divorce. Apparently 50% of marriages end in divorce...which means that 50% last!! And of the 50% that do end, not all of those divorces are bitter. Some people just grow apart and go their separate ways.
Mind you, I would rather carve my own eyes out with a teaspoon and pour salt water into the empty sockets than get married again...so maybe I'm not the right person to be giving advice...
I agree with you 100%, Dickhead. That is why I avoided marriage to this day to avoid the problems associated with it. I was very close to it though with my Cuban ex-fiancee turned feminist. She totally changed into the oppsite of what she was when I first met her and I felt I didn't know her anymore. If I had tied the knot, she would have took me to the cleaners even if I didn't have kids. She would sue for alimony. Fortunately, she didn't think of sueing me before marriage which some women would do just for having lived with them and would charge backpay for sex. I did lose the engagement ring though which costed me $4,000. What a fool I was but $4,000 is still much less of a loss than what my uncle suufered which is losing the house and having to garnish his check (after taxes is taken out) for the mortgage and alimony (he didn't have kids with his first wife but my cousin came from his second marriage and he is still paying part of his salary for his first wife even though he is currently on his second marriage.) Actually, getting married and divorced is as expensive as owning a harem. You support all of them except you only get to sleep with one and the rest of the harem end up looking like Mimi from Drew Carey.
Whew!! I'm glad I didn't go down that bumpy road of potholes because I end up losing money in damages!
Sinanju Master
11-19-02, 23:45
Joe,
I do NOT advocate "throwing up ones hands and giving up! Guys in such situations need to do cloak their assets (and identities if necessary) and immediately go on the defensive. Activism to reverse this bias against men in our society is a good idea, BUT it takes time. I'm willing to bet that time is a luxury that Paddy's friend does NOT HAVE. As for having a good lobbying group, American women would pounce upon such a lobby and attempt to crush it before it can gather enough steam to present a threat to them.
RN,
I can't speak for all men, much less for another man, but marriage is a momentous life event that calls for a commitment of both partners to the other. I don't need to tell you that. HOWEVER, a wise man will AVOID the ship-crushing rocks instead of sailing even NEAR THEM. Myself, I'd rather continually observe a propsective wife in her moments good and bad. That way, you can gauge her character even when she's NOT at her best. So many of my family and friends have failed or failing marriages that I'm EXTRA cautious in my selections. When you said that your government reversed the divorce laws, I nearly fell out of my chair. Changing the laws (equitably) in this country regarding said subject would be comparable to parting the Red Sea. The women's groups would NEVER allow it. You hit the nail on the head about the legislators. If a representative from a men's group approached one of these unprincipled, spineless, money-hungry vermin in private, the representative would deny ever having MET such an individual to the public. The teaspoon in the eye sockets doused with salt water made me laff! Are you trying to impress a point upon us? LOL
DH,
you have a valid point, and 1% of the time I feel that way, BUT if or when I DO get hitched, you can bet yer last dollar that I'll have so much stuff hidden (in case I become the gazelle) that my behind will be covered QUITE nicely.
SUMMARY: the system sucks; activism CAN change things, but at too slow a pace for those already in the quicksand; ALWAYS have an escape plan; ALWAYS be alert to your matrimonial (or soon-to-be) surroundings.
Originally posted by RN
I think it's sad that people are willing to avoid marriage just so they can avoid divorce. Apparently 50% of marriages end in divorce...which means that 50% last!!
But that is definitely not the same thing as 50% being GOOD marriages. Some of the 50% last due to fear of the stuff we have been talking about, some of the 50% last due to inertia, some due to the people involved knowing that they are such neurotic losers that no one else would ever put up with them. The percentage of marriages that remain "good" after 5 or 10 years? 15 to 20% in my estimation. DH
And of the 50% that do end, not all of those divorces are bitter. Some people just grow apart and go their separate ways.
And my divorce wasn't bitter, and she didn't take me for any money, but it was still a stupid idea, and it remains a stupid concept. DH
Mind you, I would rather carve my own eyes out with a teaspoon and pour salt water into the empty sockets than get married again...so maybe I'm not the right person to be giving advice...
And I would rather rip my tonsils out with a fish hook than get married again, so maybe I AM the right person to be giving the advice that I did.
But anyway who would want to marry a
Dickhead
I agree that in many ways American society has a bias against men at the moment. I think by and large what's happened is the old male-dominant model has been thrown out because it had its flaws, and it's been replaced not by a new model, but by things designed to react against the excesses of the old model. Such draconian situations as Paddy's described are a symptom of this, though it's also true that in most cases women far poorer financially after a divorce than when they're in a marriage. (For what it's worth, however, I also do know men who have received big pieces of their wives' assets in divorce, in those rare cases where she has more money.) So what we ironically have is guys fearful of what they'll lose staying in marriages where in fact it's costing them more not only financially but emotionally... And there are as many emotionally virulent ex-men from broken relationships as there are women. The men just get it handed to them emotionally and financially, whereas the women get it emotionally and often physically.
I completely agree that societal change ends up costing those who are currently screwed by the system. We can look at all kinds of discrimination in society and see that -- heaven knows I wouldn't want to be a young black American male today (or worse, at the moment, arabic) for what's going to happen to him and how he's going to be treated simply because he is who he is. That means it's important to work on two levels -- one level of triage, hence the suggestions that have been given to Paddy's friend and others, and one that's longer-term, that involves slowly making a case and alliances and most importantly, as RN points out, finding a way to make the case about a situation, not a gender, because politically that's poison. If it comes down to having to make a "men are bad/women are bad" kind of choice, then any smart politician is going to go play golf.
I see alot of comments here about man hating feminazi's but I also see quite a few woman hating mascunazi's (my new word for the day).
Old Chinese proverb: "The nail who sticks it's head up will always get driven down".
Perhaps... but the nail might also get a few big, juicy toes ripped across it too.
If we all lived by that proverb we'd still be living in Africa, clubbing animals over the head with a large stick and sleeping in a cave.
There's a larger potential for reward by trying something risky.
What's the point of sitting around and taking no chances in life?The same applies to marriage. Sure, you may get screwed, but that's your own stupidity. When I go out in my boat I have an extra can of gas, lifejackets, fresh water, etc... so in case something goes wrong I won't lose a leg to gangrene (or the soup pot). Only a fool goes into a situation with no insurance or backup plan. Men can see the unjust divorce laws in this country yet they take no effort to plan what may happen if they themselves get divorced.
Quit crying because you were too foolish/near sighted/oblivious to see what could happen to you in the future.
Organicgrowth
11-21-02, 23:32
Gentlemen,
I must tell you this very recent development.
She was part of this new government clinician-exchange programme. Hard as nails, and from reading the descriptions of American women here, she was a typical American women. I’d tried to “talk” to her, out of the work context and you guessed it: blank. Not one to let go, I've been chasing her for about 2 weeks now, every which way: kindness, help, conversation… you name it. Nothing. So I go for the final direct approach: I want to get to know you, take you to bed and see if it works between us (my direct quote). Her eyes sparkle, and I have a date! Believe me, this is a first for me with this sort of direct question / proposition. She is my first bedded American women. Do American women (Michigan) prefer the direct approach in general?
She isn’t interested in a relationship! Excellent, since I am not either. The next morning ended with a long session followed by a classic: lets meet when we need to... as long as it lasts! This can not be typical….???
By the way I totally agree with and fully endorse what Fedup says: start as you mean to go on. Intelligence makes you buy insurance; apply the same sense to emotional activity….. plain and simple.
Regards,
Havanaman
Hey Havanaman... welcome to the board. I've been reading your posts over in Cuba forum... good stuff. I have to say that I've never been that forward in hitting on an AW. I guess I'm scared of them screaming harrassment and getting me arrested. You have some cohones. And yes... I think there's alot of women running around just looking for sex. The problem is that this puritanical society prevents many women from acting on it.
My last post may have been full of youthful arrogance, but the fact remains that most people don't plan for after the wedding but just get caught up in the emotion/Hallmark moment.
Havanaman, not all American women agree with the puritanical ways of this society. Yes, there are some that rebel against it but would like to keep it a secret. A lot of American women love sex but are afraid to admit it. You also did the right thing which is approaching the girl when she is not around friends. There are nofriends to mock her for being "easy". Michigan tends to be a bit more lenient than New York women. New York women are flat out prudes but my most recent fling was with a girl who visited New York from Michigan. I lived in New York all my life and had to pry them open for months. They refuse to sleep with me until after 5 dates!. Trust me, I asked them for it after the second date and they said no until 3 dates more. Some even hold off on you for longer. Not to mention, New York women are more paranoid and scoff at guys that approach them in bars or clubs. That is how I tell the New Yorkers from the tourists.
Organicgrowth
11-23-02, 00:56
Fedup,
Thanks for your kind words, I’m planning a Havana revisit 23 Dec. – 1 Jan, (also 13 Dec – 22 Dec Buenos Aires). Join me / hook up?.
Your “youthful arrogance” is spot-on, I totally agree about planning for after the fact… ~ It’s probably why I’m still single, and happy!
Darkseid,
5 dates! That’s really heavy. More respect to you for hanging-in there and going for it! Too much for me, I think I would fold after 3…
I was considering a trip state-side in '03, now I’m sold. I can wangle a couple of weeks, but at least 6 days must be spent in W-DC…. Michigan is now on the top of my list after this, for when I cross the pond.
Oh, I must tell you, I asked her today why she responded to my directness: she says it reminded her of her father (!!), and she loved my accent (British…). That’s another first. Lesson learned: an ugly boy like me, I’m taking elocution lessons.
Gentlemen, any other USA city you would recommend where one might meet less aggressive women?
Regards,
Havanaman
Rubber Nursey
11-24-02, 05:46
Havanaman,
I read your story about the woman who responded to the more "direct" approach. I just wanted to comment that perhaps she wouldn't really be representative of a "normal" American woman. From what I can gather, she is in your country at the moment, not hers...and we all know what "holidayitis" can do to a girl. ;) I think most of us tend to leave our inhibitions behind when we go away...especially when we go to a place where nobody knows us. Knowing that at some point we will be leaving, and that none of the silly things we do can follow us home, gives us the freedom to do what we want and to hell with the consequences. That same woman, had you met in her the US, may have been too afraid of what her family, friends, society, etc thought of her, to respond in the same way to your direct approach.
That's not to say that there isn't women who would respond positively in their home environment. I have said before that *I* would always prefer a man used a direct response, rather spinning me a line of bullshit. (How can you "think you're falling in love with me"? We only met three minutes ago!) It's not so much what he says or what he offers...just the fact that he is honest about his intentions.
And hey...a British accent is certainly an advantage! LOL
Sinanju Master
11-24-02, 15:33
RN, I read your post and it reminded of me a few encounters, while they were not productive, they established my view in the eyes of the lady of interest at the moment as a go-getting ballsy dude. What these particular encounters had in common was the fact that I spotted said cutie and tried to think of a clever line to drop on her, but I came up blank. Not wanting to spend the rest of my life asking: "What If?", I just dropped the pretense, approached her and gave it to her up front, but in a manner that wasn't crass. Told her I thought she was beautiful, I'd like to ask her out and that I wasn't going to sit around for the rest of my life asking the aforementioned question. Although they were involved with S.O.'s (or so they said) they were totally blown away by my directness and at the very least, it ended up as a nice chat.
Organicgrowth
11-25-02, 09:06
I think that this American women has been a great learning experience for me. A first in many ways: and certainly a first for the direct approach. I should add that Sinanjumaster’s remarks about dropping the pretence and including some compliments in the direct approach is probably the best method. I went down (!) this line more out of frustration than planning. Now that I have seen it work, there is no reason that directness, tempered with good taste and being gentlemanly, should not be a normal method. At the very least the “no” can turn into a good conversation…
About being a representative of a "normal" American woman. RN, I totally agree with you. I do feel that time, space and the issue of "holidayitis" are major factors at work here. As, I suspect is “need”. Far be it from me to criticise her motives: we are both having an excellent time. I once heard someone say “satisfaction guarantees a return visit…”. This will continue for as long as it will, and then we both move on…The perfect normality for me….
More and more I think that there probably isn’t anything special about the so called “attitude” of American women. I’m being drawn more to an idea espoused by one of my colleagues, who claims that in first world countries women are learning more about their own worth / value when it comes to a comparison with men. This naturally leads to them being more dominant in their requirements (physical, emotional, independence etc), much as men are (or think they are!). I feel that this a natural evolution and one that can only lead to bettering the whole man-women interaction in general. I would add that there will always be women (…and off course men…) who will exploit a situation for credit: be it cash or kudos…
So, you like “British accents”? You think this will bode well for me in Australia? Hmmm, I’m reasonably well travelled, but not yet set foot on your sunny shores. Am I missing out I wonder…?
Regards,
Havanaman
I also noticed that the holidayists that are open to meeting men are usually alone and not huddled with a group of friends. If they are with friends, they split up and go to the bar alone, get your number and leave with them then call you the day after for some time alone. They don't want to be seen flirting because in American society, it is "shameful" for them because it makes them look "easy" or "loose". This bullshit is what makes it harder to hook up in American women because I can ell that they live by this fear of what others think. The woman traveller doesn't have to worry about what the co-workers in the office think, or what the people in the neighborhood or apartment building thinks. They are there alone and they are not ashamed of being caught with even a butt ugly guy. When I did approach girls in groups, I sensed that the girl was afraid of what her friends might think of me and she is afraid that she will be criticized for choosing me. I find nothing wrong with me but she probably thinks that 5' 6" is too short for a guy and she's afarid that the friends would think she can't find a 6' or 7' tall guy.
Havanaman, it is suggested that you avoid New York city if you want a companion because even the loose ones are like what I explained, the 5 date wait. New York city women are the biggest prudes in the universe. They also don't trust ANYONE! If you are going to New York, it should only be for seeing the sites. Also prostitution is illegal here big time so there is nothing to fall back on if you don't meet any girl in the clubs. Michigan is a lot more liberal than NY, in fact any place is.
Organicgrowth
11-26-02, 20:49
darkseid,
Thanks for your views, but this 5-dates thing is really putting me off! Thanks on the NY opinion: I think you are right about NY women. I spoke to my “friend” and she confirmed what you said. Basically it comes down to trust as you have pointed out. The NY women have very little… Why is that? Every American I have known has been a nice guy, pleasant and IMHO trustworthy; but then I have only dealt with medics / other professionals.
Michigan is still at the top of my list when I vist. Any comments on Glenwood, (Minnesota); I have a female pen pal there, and am wondering if a visit would be worthwhile…
Thanks once again.
Regards,
Havanaman
As a foreigner living in the US I can offer you a few things that I've noticed.
1: America is a paranoid society (especially after 9/11). The media constantly shows violent crimes and other things that can "kill" you. The truth is that violent crime has been on a constant downturn since the 80's (but prison incarceration is on the upturn). However because of this constant attention it makes the women distrustful.
2:American men also have a disturbing tendency to beat their wifes.
3: Women are very objectified. Particularly those who are attractive... mainly because there are so few.
4: It's a very prudish/fanatical society. Bush just signed papers to make sure "In God We Trust" didn't get removed from the federal motto.
5: Many women here have serious self esteem problems (cosmetic surgery, fake tits, liposuction, etc...)
6: You have obviously never met a true american c_unt... think Rosanne without money.
Allen Eire
11-27-02, 08:14
FedUP,
As a USA born & raised male let me address your statements.
1. Have you ever heard of the term "if it bleeds it leads"? You are half right about the media making women distrustful but the other part is the FemiNazi brigade always planting into womens minds that they don't need a man. BTW Americans have a right to be paranoid after 9/11.
2. What sparkling country do you come from? No one beats their wife there??? Really ingnorant statement.
3. "Women are objectified because we have so few" Again another ingnorant statement. We have a plethora of attractive women but attitude is another story.
4. So what. Just because one may like to fuck does not mean we Americans do not beleive in God. We also don't want some atheistic liberal asshole like the one that got "One nation under GOD" removed from the American Pledge of Allegience to get some asshole court to side with him & take "In GOD we trust" away from us!
5 & 6. I actually agree with. Rosanne or the Julia Roberts type.
Do please inform us of what great nation you come from.
Fedup's from Canada, so he certainly has seen his fair share about American society, and while I agree that at time his minor Canadian chip vibrates, he manages to keep it pretty well under control for the most part. :)
While I agree with you that statement #2, about men beating their wives (which statistically is actually far more prevalent in many other places but doesn't get the same societal discussion or play that it does in the states) is a bit much, I don't think he's all that far off on the rest. And some of us liberal atheist assholes -- or more accurately, non-Christians -- get pretty tired of you god-loving types jamming your specific beliefs down our throats just because you think you've got the right to do so -- the "under God" thing in the pledge wasn't added until the 50's and the pledge worked just fine until then as a patriotic statement and also since the phrase has been gone as well, thank you very much. That bland generalizing that all Americans think the way you do (or should) is exactly what many of us find most annoying and why there are challenges to things such as these -- there are plenty who do not feel that way, and the foundation of the country is supposed to be tolerance and the tradition of healthy dissent as opposed to blindly following.
Fedup's dead on that American society is prudish and fanatical, not to mention insular. (Did you note that the just released study that notes under 20% of American high school students can find Afghanistan on a map? And distressingly similar numbers for other world hot spots?) And those attitudes clearly affect women's perspectives, as in general they're definitely more prudish and paranoid here than in other places.
Just read Fedup's top six. I would also emphatically agree with his comment about the "Rosanne types."
Just got back from Eastern Europe and I'm continually amazed by the beauty of the women there. The short skits, long flowing hair, heels, earrings, etc. You almost never see one who is overweight.
Got off the plane in the USA and saw "Rosanne types" all over the place. You know the kind. Thunder thighs, jeans, butch hair cuts, etc. It's interesting to watch them shuffle up and down the concourses. I can assure you that a woman in Prague wouldn't even come out of the house looking like that.
One thing I've also noticed over the years is that these Rosanne types often have little kids in tow. Geez, are guys actually fu*cking these gorillas????? It maybe goes to show how bad American men have it and how "acclimated" we have become to these types of women.
Have you guys noted this same phenomenon of these "Rosanne types" who are often walking around with kids in tow? Is it just me?
Just another atheistic liberal asshole here to say: Allen Eire, maybe you were born and raised in the US but it looks like you played hooky the day they studied the constitution at whatever high school you flunked out of. You might want to read it, especially the disestablishment clause. Oh, and FUCK George Bush. "One nation, under god" does not belong in the pledge of allegiance and "In god We Trust" does not belong on our money. Now "E pluribus unum" is a motto I can live with. I bet Allen Eire doesn't know what it means, though.
Oh, and JZ, did you catch last week's Business Week? Our top-rated weekly magazine had a map of Europe and they had Slovakia labelled as Slovenia. Of course, they had Slovenia labelled as Slovenia too so I guess that makes up for it (not). I do apologize to all you Bojohns out there.
Sinanju Master
11-27-02, 23:48
Paddy, your reference to the Roseanne types and your dismay at the seeming prevalance of American men f*cking them through being acclimated to them was hilarious! To be more specific, your reference was hilarious, your dismay is not, and should be taken seriously. I liken you to Toto pulling back the curtain hiding the "Feminazi of Oz"! LOL Keep exposing them, Paddy!
The apparent LACK of knowledge of world events, geography of foreign countries, etc among American citizens (especially our youth) is appaling. Hell, at age 9 I knew where MOST of the countries of the world were located. I also knew much of ancient (foreign) and American history, and Greek and Roman mythology. Then again, in recent years the quality of education in our system is like that of our nation's bridges: deteriorating.
Well, guess I can't say it better than that... thanks guys.
I also saw the high school test and was appalled to see that 1 in 10 couldn't find the US on a world map without labels.
Knowledge is power. To keep the hypnotic patriotism required to run the US you need a society with herd mentality... enter the domineering church and a poor education system. There is plenty of money in the US to better fund education... just stop spending it all on guns. Individual Americans are quite reasonable but they are somehow held in control by an elite few who are coerced by corporate donations. This country needs a good civil revolt.
but I digress
I returned home from Miami last week and was immediately stunned by the uglies waddling about.
Many hot chicas in Miami. Lot's of SW's on South Beach too.
And who's fucking the Roseanne types? Hey... alot of the guys around here ain't too pretty either. They gotta mate with something.
Just imagine the kids.
Allen Eire
11-28-02, 10:52
dickhead: "out of many, one" dickhead shall rise above the rest to insult a board poster who did not insult him personally. no i did not play hookey during history class or geography class of the prep school that i did not flunk out of. as i said sir i do beleive in god & identify with christians but do not feel compelled to go convert the world. i simply stated that just because i like to fuck does not mean i'm happy to see another left-wing atheist aclu type eliminate the term god from everything, however, when some touchy feely soul wants to adorn a public place or give their message of buddism or islam at an institution of taxpayer finance well not a peep out of mr. aclu. whether you like it or not this country the usa that our forfathers conquered was founded on christian religious principals. the framers (i should hope you know who they were.) wanted a separation of church and state not because they were atheists but to prevent a dominant sect of christianity rising to the top of leadership & setting the precident for who should worship in what manner but moreover & more importantly they did not want future leaders ( not just the presidency) of this country to make decisions based on what the leaders of their denomination of christianity felt. the framers wanted future decisions of this great country to be based on what's best for the nation & not the church. so let's just say we'll have to disagree & don't call someone out unless they call you out personally. btw i'm not some bible thumping asshole spaming. i was responding to fed up's rant.
i did not insult fed up. i stated that he made a couple of ignorant statements, which he did. i've been to toronto (canadian mid-west) victoria & vancover (west coast) guess what, i saw women of all body types there but did not remain for an extended period of time to get a real feel (pun intended) of the women there.
i'm not looking to turn this into a ploitical agenda/religion column. i just took umbrage with a couple of fed up's statements. so if you feel you must respond at length about your political/religious rant then e-mail it to me at alleneire@hotmail.com i don't check it everyday so i'm not on pins & needles waiting. i recognize that there are problems that exist with women from highly populated cities but the usa is quite vast & i've met some excellent american women
hi,
american female escorts are fine, i have had no problem with them, i ask for what i want a fetish to be fulfilled, as they are the service provider, if they cant commit to my expectations, they serve no purpose to me and are tossed aside...
i have businesses in the US, so i visit that country a lot, sure, plenty of the mainstream american women are fat and a little tempermental, but who cares, i'm not living with them nor would I want to sleep with them or associate with them...it's your right to choose, leave them alone, so what's the big deal?
but the american escort girls are great, nevada, florida, california, New York and Hawaii are the best!!!
as for the US people not knowing about other countries, you must remember that the US is a country within a number of countries, 50 or so states, I asked a female escort from nevada i had during dinner about the time i had in tampa bay, she thought i was talking about some island in the caribbean...the US is a huge country with soo many states, its a world within a world...u must understand this...
every one of us knows more about something than someone else and visa versa...if a girl doesn't know where finland is and then asks me what mascara is, she'll think i'm ignorant too...
the best looking women on the planet are from brazil/argentina followed by colombia, morocco and venezuela, thailand, cameroon, russia, czech, hungary, senegal...etc
there is nothing wrong with having women entertain you sexually while you have a long term partner...actually, its healthy..
i agree with fed up a bit, 90% of the planet are sheep, not just americans....they love their country, good for them, i love escorts, good for me...
sure, roseanne is a little loud and unrefined, but she simply doesn't know any better so you can't expect better from her or women of similar ilk..she is cute with those chubby cheeks, they need pinching...
if you guys dont like fat american mainstream gals, get a real hot looking woman from the countries i mentioned, simple as that..
vladmir
:))))
Organicgrowth
11-28-02, 20:03
Gentlemen,
I’m not an American and so I’m not going to enter directly into this thread. However I must add my 2? worth. The human race is beautiful because it is fat, thin, tall, small, etc etc….. The differences are what make us unique. Attitude is thus paramount (that means for men and women).
Lets not get personal, lets just share mongering experiences and information.
I like diversity. I have had all shapes and all sizes. There is a beauty in ALL women IMHO. Granted, some may appear to be less than ideal, but then beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some of my best sessions have been with a regular “girl next door” type…. And some of my worst sessions have been with the classic “I know I’m beautiful…” knockout, a 10 in anyones book types. Attitude is just as important as looks in my view, but then we all have our own levels of acceptance.
I think that Exhale’s comments are on the whole correct and agreeable. Nicely put sir (except Roseanne: no, not even if she paid me! LOL). Also I’m not sure about “American escort girls are great…”, I’ve read too many posts here about their attitude, and lack of GFE… which puts me off them. Escorts in South America, and regular & pro-chicas in Cuba, on the other hand seem to offer it all….
Education: Ignorance is ignorance, plain and simple. It is everywhere unfortunately. What a crying shame for the human race.
Finally: God. IMHO, each to their own, however, to use religious terminology or nomenclature for money, contracts, national seals, mongering, business deals etc… is a bit much. Especially when you look at the numbers. How many of the planets population are Christian (include all the various sects), how many are Muslims (include all the various sects), same for all the other minority religions… All this implies a different “God” for different peoples… My vote is for the humanists…
Regards,
Havanaman
Havanaman,
What country are you from? Certainly not Cuba . . .
Right on the money, as usual. If you are a true lover of women, you can find something special in almost anyone. I prefer slender women but love them all. And I prefer being with attractive but not beautiful women. Attitude and gratitude are more important to me. Even with pros, a bad attitude will kill the experience for me. I can't even "finish" the job if she's a mean person. I just tell her to leave . . . -P
Sinanju Master
11-28-02, 23:49
Prokofiev, a point I tried to articulate a while back but didn't (through the lack of words at the moment or whatever other reason) is that a LOT of American women are PHYSICALLY BEAUTIFUL, BUT that's all. Many are like apples on a diseased tree: they have beautiful exteriors but are rotten to the core. They feel that since they are beautiful, they don't have to develop their internal qualities and can therefore go through life by manipulating others through their looks. There are many times they display a gross lack of refinement, but they try to recover from the situation by saying: "I'm beautiful. I don't need to be smart, so all you need to do is look at me and be amazed". When I've ran into this situation, I thought to myself; "What's gonna happen when this broad is "placed" outta the market by her younger competitors? She'll cry the blues and do the man-hating thing. Those f***ing b****es will receive only dry tears from me. For the record, I don't hate ALL American women: JUST the ones who try to gouge out a man's heart and hold it up for display to their friends. There are actually quite a few American women who have rejected me BUT have my respect because they exhibited good social manners.
Organicgrowth
11-29-02, 02:42
I couldn’t have put it better myself. Attitude is muy importante. It shows in the smile, it shows in the “performance” and it definitely is recalled when those wonderful moments are relived in ones memories.
Sinanjumaster, your descriptions of this “attitude” are excellent, I liked the apple-tree……. “Let him who has not reached up for an apple cast the first stone…” Nice. LOL
Prokofiev: we must have been brothers in another life! At least 10 times over the years I have asked a women to leave for exactly the same reasons… Doesn’t it just spoil the whole night? Mr floppy returns quicker than one can say "please leave!" These very same women could have been so very successful (at anything…) if only they learned that a good attitude lasts a lifetime and goes further than perfect lipstick. I once had a women (not American, I hasten to add) who promised everything when we met at a club, then delivered nothing because her lipstick would smudge and she didn’t have anymore in her 15 x 10 x 4 cm designer purse…. IMHO very few men are satisfied with just the old in-out-in-out, wash & go, pay-for play. Certainly I prefer a little intelligent conversation, touching, you know …GFE….. I do feel that this is very readily available in the so called pseudo-first-world (economically second / third world..) like MEX, S-America / Latino countries generally.
Regards,
Havanaman
(Soy de Londres y París ahora! Y tu Prokofiev?)
Well Allen, actually you DID insult me when you said "atheistic liberal asshole." That implies that atheists and liberals are assholes. And I did not "call you out." If I ever choose to do that, you will know it. Nor do I feel I insulted you. I said that I bet you would not know what "e pluribus unum" meant. Either you did know what it meant or you looked it up. So I was wrong and you should have bet me. Either way, I fart in your general direction and we can let it go at that. Your fancy prep school still didn't teach you how to spell or how to write a coherent sentence. Now go suck off a priest.
Right On Dickhead,
Yes, we do get self-righteous, religious, quasi-political types like Allen on here from time-to-time. They see themselves as self-styled evangelists who need to impress upon the unenlightened flock their own religious/political views as if JC himself is whispering in their ear.
Allen should understand that laying his religious/political "trip" on others only makes people more rigid and intransigent in their views than ever before. Hit the delete button on this guy. Hopefully he'll go away and take his jingoisms somewhere else.
I truly enjoy being a single, atheistic, liberal asshole who can wander the world, meeting interesting women from different cultures and fucking them until they bleed out their ears, with no guilt or bullshit involved. In apostasy there is ecstasy.
Allen Eire
12-05-02, 09:06
Well all after being out of town for a few days it seems my comments got some robust posting underway. I hope all of our USA residing posters had a good Turkey Day & those who are not I hope you had a great weekend even the "Dickhead".
Dickhead,
Obviously we are going to disagree & I'm not on this board to disseminate some right wing religious garble. If I were Jackson would have banned me from the board quite some time ago. I responded to Fed Up not you. When I responded to his assessment of the USA I did not say specifically atheistic liberal assholes like "Dickhead", however, you did insult me when you stated that I flunked out of high school nor would I know what E pluribus Unum would mean. BTW how do you know that I am Catholic? I bet you’re an atheist because some Father had his way with you when you were a young Alter Boy. Finally, your moniker is certainly befitting.
Since this is not supposed to be a political/religious board I'm going to end responding to such posts, however, I will respond when someone posts ignorant remarks about the US or it's citizens.
Exhale: Great post, however, we will have to part ways of opinion regarding Rosanne.
I would have to agree with you guys that American women are like Roseanne without money. I went to Montreal and saw almost all women were skinny with very thin long legs. Then on my way back, as soon as I reached the American border when the bus stopped for lunch, I never seen so many Buffalos and Behemoths compared to any other country and the size of a country! Almost every girl there except maybe one or two were obese!!! My bus companion from Canada even nudged me insulting the women in this service area full of fast food joints. I was completely embarrassed that these women are a part of this great country and that they represent our country being that these are the first women the Canadians see when they cross the border. My bus neighbor even asked me if they were all like that and I admitted that 7 out of 10 are that fat.
Geez, American women need to shape up or at least change their attitue about sex so they can have more of it to also burn those calories they build up while eating and feeling sorry for themselves that they can't find a rich, tall, athletic, smart, funny, etc. man and that they reject a man that is missing one or more of these attributes.
I guess I'll leave American women to their foods after all this is a "free" country and they can eat all they want. That is why I avoid American women. Perhaps I should go to Canada to find a woman just like my father and sifu (kung-fu master) did.
Allen Eire
12-06-02, 10:51
I have never been to that part of the USA or Canada but I have been to the Canadian mid-west & I did observe many fat broads there. I have also been to Minneapolis for business twice & that place was loaded with oinkers.
The USA is quite vast & I have lived my entire life in either California or Texas. Both places do have fattys but I normally encounter more fit & good looking gals so it possibly is more related to an ethnic make-up & regional issue.
Rubber Nursey
12-06-02, 18:20
Ummm...you guys are doing it again...
Darkseid, you just spent a very large amount of your post saying "American chicks are fat", and then you followed that with "...they can't find a rich, tall, athletic, smart, funny, etc. man and that they reject a man that is missing one or more of these attributes."
Doesn't that seem just the tiniest bit hypocritical to you? You're saying that if women have something wrong with them (like being fat for example) men will not date them, but that those same women should be willing to overlook MEN'S flaws??
Yes, MY ideal man would be financially independent, decent looking, tall, fit, well hung, smart, charming, funny...the list goes on. But I can assure you that NONE of the men I've ever really fallen in love with, have fitted that description! (Personally, I don't believe that man even exists...)
I'm wondering...what would you guys do if you met a woman who was smart, loyal, funny, sassy, and treated you like a God, but she was (insert undesirable attribute here)? Are you really willing to miss out on a lifetime with what could be your Soul Mate, just because she's carrying a few extra pounds?
RN, you are nothing like these American women. Even the fat ones are finicky like the way I described. I do not necessarily reject a woman who is obese. I would have stuck with my ex-fiancee when she turned obese if she did not also turn feminist. Some women look good even with some extra pounds. It is the attitude of American women that I am complaining about. I am victim to the anti-vertically challenged sentiment of America. I am only 5'4" tall! and most American women, these same oinkers want men that are above 5'7" or 6' tall. They also ASSUME that short people have short schlong so the only women that find out that I don't have a short one are prostitutes or women that take chances on me like my ex-fiancee who dated me on a bet with her girlfriends. I don't even think I am that ugly either. I have everything else even the schlong except the height and that is the only reason they reject me. Now being hardened to American women, I give them 2 reasons to be turned off, the height and my judging them for a change.
If American women weren't so bitchy, I would probably defend them against my Canadian bus neighbor who was the one laughing at them. But since they aren't so nice to short people, I laughed at these obese American ladies with him so I would feel I put one over on them. I am sorry I come off like I have issues with AWs but that is why I travel so that I can regain my self esteem by dating less shallow foreign women who accepts short (in height and not necessarily in penis inches) men like myself.
Well, I am not one of those who has been involved in the fat debate, but RN, it's like this: I can date a woman who has a big nose or a lisp or is deaf or is four feet tall, but I can't date a fat woman or a woman who smokes. We all have our deal breakers.
I'm with you Dickhead. Smoking and fat are my two biggest turnoffs (hope the end to smoking is going well for you RN). Sex is an important part of dating to me and I just can't get excited when I see cottage cheese jumping and jiving while I'm doin doggy. It is, of course, only a small reflection of the person inside. RN is quite right in saying that men are hypocritical. I'm constantly amazed at how some slob in blue jeans and a "Fuck You" t-shirt thinks he should be able to pull a hot chick. Those type of guys need to take a hard look in the mirror before whining about how they can't find a hottie. I can overlook (compromise) on many things about a person, but if they are fat or poor in bed I consider it a sacrifice and will look elsewhere.
There's quite a few porkers in Canada too. The difference is that Canadian's are embarassed once they get 50 pounds overweight. Americans only seem to get embarassed if they are 100 pounds or more overweight. Hence the porkers are WAY bigger down here.
Allen: Sorry, but you are the one who is ignorant. I offer this only as a constructive criticism (I have nothing against you personally or just because you are american) in the hopes that I can remove the hypnotism that most americans live with.
1) Your government lies to you. They use proganda and poor education to generate a sheep mentality. 100 000 people demonstrated in Washington against war with Iraq and it didn't even make the evening news. However, the 5000 protestors against Chavez in Venezuela generate almost daily news. Why? Oil.
2) The US uses it's military power to dictate it's policies to other countries. Leave us alone. Just because america thinks pot/prostitution/socialism are bad doesn't mean you have the right to stuff your values down our throats.
3) In a country that is touted as being tolerant to all religions your government has no right to force christianity on people. I don't "trust in god" and I don't need to see that bullshit statement on US currency.
I could keep going but this is not the place. Just realise that the US is becoming increasingly isolated/villianized by the rest of the world. Perhaps it's the US who is wrong, not the rest of the world. But then, americans are also very poor at introspection.
So live long, fuck lots, and quit worrying if your SUV is bigger than the other guy's.
The Virgin Terr
12-09-02, 06:16
the great thing about prostitution is it provides a means for less attractive individuals to get it on with more attractive ones, fed up. i'm not a slob, but i would have never been able to fuck the many drop-dead hotties i have without paying them. since i love making love to beautiful young ladies, and they love profiting from their appeal, everyone goes home happy.
speaking of SUV"s, there's a new book out on them which will tell you all you ever wanted to know regarding why they are a menace to public safety and the environment, called HIGH AND MIGHTY, by KEITH BRADSHER.
i'm an american who isn't fooled any longer by his fascist government. it's ironic we're at war with islamic fundamentalists, since philosophically our leaders are so similar to them. unfortunately of course, wars kill mostly civilians and innocent bystanders.
VT, valid points. Although I am embarrassed enough about carrying around 25 lbs more on my 6'4 frame than I did at 20 in the army, at 50 I fully realise that in order to bed a 20-year old real cutie it takes money. And the fact that the option exists is welcomed indeed. (Heck, who wants to sleep with boring old hags my age :-)
RN, relax. We guys here are not (I think) homosexual fashion designers who currently decide what the world's women are "supposed to look like". Those guys favour 14-year old boys, and we definately don't want women to look like that. Most men like women to be curvy - and women.
As regards overlooking men's flaws - I guess putting on 25 lb from the ideal and becoming 50 are both flaws - and as said, those flaws need some serious money talk to be "overlooked" - the challenge is to make that overlooked for real, rather than for fake.......
The men you "describe" as probably non-existent do exist - my oldest son at 19 looks like a moviestar (not my determination), is 6'3 and 200 effective lb's, has been on a national martial arts team, has grades and a history likely to land him in an Ivy League university in the US - and of course he has a line of girls at the door.
But the drug-dealing, maybe good-looking gangster down the street, who is, despite his good looks in desperately bad shape, a school dropout and all, has a longer line. And that line is scoring higher on the average 1-10 looks scale.
In addition, the drug dealer has a reputation for beating his girls up frequently, while jr. has a reputation for taking them to Rome for romantic vacations.
This has always been so. You girls have a strange way of selecting your mates.......
Rubber Nursey
12-12-02, 15:43
heh heh don't worry traveller/dickhead...i was just making a point. you have no idea how many clients i've had that are obese, shabbily dressed and severely lacking in personal hygiene, who come in complaining that their wives have let themselves go!! lol i have no problem at all with people having "limits"...we are all attracted to different things...but i do have a problem with men that expect perfection in women but refuse to acknowledge their own flaws. and call me old-fashioned, but i still believe that people are "worth more than the sum of their parts". wit, intelligence, and a good heart and sense of humour, work much better on me than a sportscar and buns of steel.
that said, i have my own set of limits that some guys in here would probably by peeved by. some guys (no, i'm not accusing anyone in particular!) who have limits on what sorts of women they will see, need to realise that women have those limits too. women shouldn't be expected to compromise too much either.
fedup,
military power frightens me,
religion frightens me,
sometimes...mainly for those two reasons... america frightens me.
and yes, the battle against the smokes is slowly being won. :) i had a period of total failure...cold turkey was just not possible...so i've changed tactics and now i think i'm doing ok. i've cut down from 40 a day to around 10 a day in the past couple of weeks. i'm hoping to kick it completely by new year. (trying to keep the target realistic...but hopefully i'll be able to do it quicker than that).
Sinanju Master
12-13-02, 00:10
RN, your point about your clients (the pot that dares to call the kettle black! lol) is right on the money on BOTH sides. One example similar to yours is my best friend's cousin. This woman could pass for a main character in the novel Moby Dick. She had the nerve once to say that basically, her standards were "a Tom Cruise lookalike with a 9" schlong". I thought to myself: "Geez, the guy can't afford enough FLOUR to have sex with you". For the sake of civility, I bit my tongue (almost in HALF).
Rubber Nursey
12-13-02, 05:54
LMFAO sinanjumaster!!!!!
Yup, I know quite a few women who do the same thing as well. Certainly not just a male problem.
And for the record, I think Tom Cruise is revolting. Samuel L. Jackson, Sean Connery, Mel Gibson...oh myyyyyyy. And she was demanding nine inches? Do you think maybe she was aiming low to avoid disappointment??? ;) *cheeky grin*
Hi RN and Guys,
Just made it back from Bonnie Scotland. Spent most of my time in Edinburgh sightseeing and "punting" at night. Punters are blokes who seek the services of working girls. They even have their own huge website at *********.com It's basically the WSG for the UK.
Several observations are in order it seems. First of all, there is no problem chatting up the women there in the pubs. All of the guys seem to be obsessed with watching football on the big screen while drinking their pint. Secondly, they are very scared of American war mongering and sabre rattling. Got to the point where I was telling the lassies that I was Canadian. The Ugly American mystique is alive and well there and they're our longtime allies.
The Edinburgh Sauna scene was excellent. BBBj's are the norm there. Service and attitude was exemplary. Man, what a contrast to the scene in America. Thought I had died on gone to heaven.
The women there are all feminine, very well dressed and slender. They were also remarkably friendly and helpful. One of the girls I had for almost two hours in one of the saunas offered to show me Edinburgh on her night off free of charge. I'd like to see something like that in the states!!!
RN, I read your description of your ideal male and you forgot to list "turning grey" and being in his "mid-fifties." I meet all of your other criteria!!! By the way, keep up the great work on quitting smoking. It's not easy but your kids need you around.
Geez, it gets harder and harder to return home to American women but a guy has to make a living. You know, the vast majority of American guys have no idea how bad it is here and they probably think that this is "normal."
sirs:
i regret posting, since this forum was ostensibly about chasing pussy, but some folks who happen to be from politically insignificant yet english speaking countries choose to make provocative statements about the usa. i hereby protest.
re: mention of "god" on us currency. that is not "establishing a religion", it's just a word used traditionally in many us documents. however, the founders who wrote the us constitution did claim that our rights are not given to us by any government, but come from god. i don't believe god exists, but that is why the word appears so frequently in various texts. if you don't like the currency, don't keep any of it. send it to the charity of your choice. or better yet, stop making it, go home and live on the dole.
re: we beat our "wifes". oh, sure. well if so, those guys don't have computers and therefore you should go to the ghetto and confront them personally about it.
re: the govt. lies to us. that's actually dan rather's and peter jennings' job.
re: americans are poor at introspection. perhaps, because we spend a lot of time getting things done. like changing europe's [CodeWord131] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131) after it starts wars, keeping the soviets from later consuming it, developing the technology to feed the planet, cure diseases (oh canada! give me an mri machine!), promote democracy, and confront tyranny.
this post will get people's dander up, but so be it. we are supposed to be discussing women/getting laid issues, not venting one's spleen.
dash riprock
dash, i think america is a great country but the only complaint i have about it is it's over-obsessiveness with morality. in fact, america has a tendency to patrol other countries and impose our anti-prostitution and drug laws on them. these countries do not share our extremely moral sentiments so they don't comply. this is why we find better pussy in any other country than the us or any other extremely moralistic country. the more lax a country is toward sex, the better the volunteers for the sex worker position. in the us, however, sex workers are frowned upon and jailed so the good looking women who want to do this for college don't want to risk the heavy consequences imposed on sex workers in this country. in new york, prostitutes are thrown in riker's island, a prison for serial killers, [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127), child molestors, and terrorists. i think that is rather extreme for a victimless crime as prostitution. where does it say in the bible to punish prostitutes that way? prostitutes are beaten by other inmates and raped by their lesbian cellmate in this extreme prison. even a day in this prison is hell. i know they don't punish sex workers this way in other countries. if they did, there would be no pussy available to us in countries like brazil, scotland, or canada. and the us wants to impose such punishment on sex workers in other countries. i see why sex workers in other countries dislike the us government and that i always have to stick up for it. they fear that if their country adopts the us laws, this means of making quick cash would no longer be available to them. i admit that if i were a woman and i needed some cash in between jobs, i would be a prostitute until i find my next job and i wouldn't want some nosy police to arrest me and throw me to riker's island for it.
rn, i did not mean to fly off the handle about american women but they judge me on my lack of height which is something i can't change. how can i grow taller? do i hang on a pole every day? i tried that and it still doesn't work. there's not even a safe surgical method to gain height. there are some problems that some unfortunate women were born with like ugly teeth, unibrows, etc. but i still date women with these flaws because i am very understanding about problems that can't be helped. in fact, i date women with small breasts or short women. even my 2 week girlfriend in brazil had a minor flaw which was her crooked teeth but she had great looks and body otherwise. this brazilian chick didn't mind that i was short in height. geez, height seems be be a big issue for american women! i don't have any other flaws physically.
obesity, on the other hand can be solved. there's the traditional diet and exercise, liposuction, or metabolism pills. and those same obese american women expect a tall, hung, and handsome dude!
btw rn, would you date a guy who is shorter than you?
CBGBConnisur
12-14-02, 02:50
Its obvious in America there is a very hypocritical standard towards sex, that is a given, the US has the largest pornography industry in the world yet prostitution is completely criminalized except in some lame parts of Nevada, the idea that a prostititute's job will ever be legalized will never materialize anytime in the near future in America. One of the abusurdities of American life is that it is perfectly legal to buy a lethal weapon that can potentially be used to kill people and often is like in the case of that sicko sniper in Washington DC but if a man just wants to have sex that is a criminal offense. There are images of violence all over the US media yet if someone bares their ass everyone makes a big deal out of it. Europeans are almost opposite it is rare to see European films filled with intense gratitious blood gore and violence and on the contrary you see a lot more sex. Personally I rather get laid than get shot or in a fist fight.
Sinanju Master
12-14-02, 05:58
CBGB, be not so quick to judge us. Many countries the world over love elements of our culture and that includes our violence-filled movies. I'm not saying it's a great thing to export, but it's a matter of fact. And yes, getting laid is more preferable to getting into a fight. However, hand to hand combat CAN be a thrilling experience (in the ring, of course), if only a VERY DISTANT second place to the release of great sex.
CBGBConnisur
12-14-02, 12:50
give me a break, I live in America so I know what I am talking about. I have been on both sides of the Atlantic and find Europe to be more tolerant towards sex and extremely intolerant to violence and aggressive culture. Emimen the rapper was slammed in Europe because of his lyrics that promote violence against woman and gays not because of their sexuality. There are even warning messages preceding certain American programs warning parents about the violent content of movies and television shows. 15,000 people were killed this year by gun violence in America, in Britain there were less than 150 who met this unfortunate fate. Europe and America are both democracies and their foreign policies are shaped by their people, the US goverment wants to bomb the hell out of any country it sees fit and Europe wants to make peace and create friendships with countries around the world, just look at the Iraq situation. When Afghanistan was being attacked I was sitting in a bar and saw a large group of people cheering 'yeah', in a bar in Germany I saw people looking in dismay shaking their heads in dissaproval, quite typical considering Germans are vehemently anti-War and Americans from all walks of life are developing a Lock and Load mentality, those people I witnessed cheering the carnage happened to be Ivy League trained Physicians not uneducated drunks, the Germans I saw who were dismayed at the violence were off duty policemen, how interesting that young American doctors cheered at the carnage yet a group of working class German cops looked in dismay at the scenes of war. When I was driving home I counted 4 GUN SHOPS in a matter of a quarter mile, one had a big sign saying Tactical Assault Rifles, over 2/3rd's of American homes carry handguns, Violence is a part of America.
CBGB, since I've disagrred with you at times in the past, I just want to say -- right on, I absolutely agree with you here. Anybody seen "Bowling for Columbine?"
If Germans are vehemently anti-war, they've had a funny way of showing it over the years.
Sinanju Master
12-14-02, 18:04
Dickhead, I agree with you. PLUS, CBGB has conveniently forgotten that recently the Serbs wanted to eradicate the Bosnian Muslims, the Greeks and the Turks are always constantly in a state of near-war with each other and that over a century ago, the Turks slaughtered thousands of Armenians. Shall I also list the butchery of Stalin and Hitler? Up until only recently, Germany has AWAYS had avaricious military aspirations. If these are examples of the Europeans wanting to make friendships and peace throughout the world, then he needs to read about past events and brush up on current ones. Then again, since he says he's American, his abysmal knowledge of history (or shall I say the lack thereof?) reflects the continuing failure of American education. America is not a perfect country and we never said we were. Are we backward when it comes to our attitudes regarding sex? Yes? Do we have a LOT of guns? Yes. NO nation on this earth can claim to have a bloodless past or a perfect present, so STOP painting Europe as a Utopia. I love Europe for its cultures and history, but let's put things in perspective. END OF STORY
Sinanju Master
12-14-02, 18:40
Hitler - cashed in the chips of 6 million Jews
Stalin - depopulated the Soviet Union by 20 million
Khmer Rouge (OK this is in Asia) hundreds of thousdands dead in massacres
When the US kills innocent civilians MAYBE by the hundreds (YES, accidental) we get raked over the coals, but bring up the aforementioned figures and the pacifist pussies and "America-Haters" develop amnesia. Give me a fucking break. America was born in the blood of the desire for independence and it's in our blood. If so many countries of the world are so much greater than America, why do the citizens of these shining examples risk theIr very LIVES to come here? What's that I hear? Silence? Yah, I THOUGHT SO.
Jeez, what is it with most Americans? Mention a few things that aren't perfect and it's like someone's saying that we're devil spawn. Get a grip, ok? What wrong with admitting that there are issues, and going from there, as opposed to this knee-jerk "love it or leave it" stuff?
And while I agree with Dickhead that Germany's history isn't exactly peaceable, I do think it's fair to say that the country as a whole now is at least fairly abashed at its history and currently a lot further from warlike than the US.
It's "don't tread on me" not "don't disagree with me."
Sinanju Master
12-14-02, 20:34
Joe_Zop, not to be argumentative, but the issue I have with America-Haters is that they are pots calling the kettle black. Yes, my country has serious issues that need to be addressed. Hell, I'd be the LAST one to say it's perfect, but it gave me birth, nutured me, gave me opportunities for which I'm grateful and I find it difficult to hold my tongue when others blindly bash it. America is like a family: most live within the "house" under its stated rules formal and informal even though there are some we may not like. However, there are ingrates in that family who want only to experience the benefit of living in the "house" while refusing to contribute constructively toward it. These are the malcontents who "live off the efforts" of the other members of the family while refusing to acknowledge that they have it good by living off those efforts. If they had the balls to live up to their words and go to wherever it is that is a GREATER shining example, then so be it. Never gonna happen. Again, to reiterate, I was just making a point Joe, not verbal combat.
CBGBConnisur
joe_zop
"When Afghanistan was being attacked I was sitting in a bar and saw a large group of people cheering 'yeah', in a bar in Germany I saw people looking in dismay shaking their heads in disapproval, quite typical considering Germans are vehemently anti-War and Americans from all walks of life are developing a Lock and Load mentality"
Good for europe that 3000 of their citizens didn't get shredded into unidentifiable little bits after a massive double office building collapse caused by two hijacked airplanes. If it had occurred just one hour latter it could have been 10000-15000 civilians. To me, that is more than enough reason to eradicate any imminent threat to my familiy, my country and myself. Alas, you can go ahead and give your europion selves a big group hug and pretend that won’t ever happen to you. While you do that, we (USA) will end this insanity the only way those religious muslim radicals will be able to understand, we want them to see Allah; soon and our way.
"Don't tread on US" if you do you might get a boot up your a**.
Sinanju Master
12-15-02, 03:46
CBGB if Hussein didn't spend the country's money on building up his military INSTEAD of providing for his people, they would have that money to spend on the aid you speak of. As a result, they wouldn't experience their current lot in life, but you sound like some revisionist, pacifist pussy. Then again, an addle-minded fuck like you probably glorifies the Glorious Workers Paradise of North Korea and the oppressive regimes of the Middle East. The fact that I spent even a SECOND acknowledging the LESS THAN subhuman intellect (I shouldn't even call it THAT) of a fool like you annoys me at most. Like the small mind that you are, I expect your vilification immediately and will laugh at the fact that you CONSISTENTLY prove to me your lack of knowledge and your susceptibility to slogan-ranting assholes who manipulate you like the mindless marionette you are. PLEASE indulge me in your further rantings while I go to the corner store for some Orville Redenbacher's and some Pepsi.
If pussy were on a rack by the door in the US, like it is in many other countries, we wouldn't have such an overall bellicose mindset because we would be getting more relief. And, as a bonus, our women would not have themselves so overrated.
Sinanju Master
12-15-02, 04:21
DH, the word "overrated" hits the nail on the head! It almost makes me laff out loud when I hear the things American women DEMAND without even THINKING of exerting themselves for it. It's like: "I'm gonna bust MY balls for a bad attitude and a possible necrophile experience"? Hell fucking NO! "on a rack by the door".... heh heh heh ...on a rack by the door....
Cambodia Pro
12-15-02, 04:56
American women suck..................................your wallet. LOL
CBGBConnisur
12-15-02, 05:10
Ok well back to the topic at hand, lets face it American women make such a big deal of themselves when they are the most overrated women on the planet. At the place where I worked the managers hired an attractive new secretary and several men in my office starting acting like mice fighting over a piece of cheese. Europe is filled with so many attractive women that no one really makes a big deal out of it, thats why sexual services in Europe and elsewhere are so inexpensive. In Rio De Janeiro Brazil I have spent less than 50 dollars US for a WHOLE night of passion with a solid 9. In the US that would get me a 5 minute handjob with a 2. Traveling around the world made me realize that America is probably the worst place to meet women as the ladies here are totally a pain in the ass. I have had women ask me out where I work and then they would expect me to treat them like Queens when they initially came on to me. Women here expect guys to go all out on them and they expect all out everything in man, I noticed American women have a preference for macho muscle aggressive and assertive men. Europeans and others prefer all out good looks and charm, wherever I have been in Europe, most sex symbols aren't steroid breath macho guys with a few exceptions.
CBGB,
You speak the truth man.Overwhelming sense of entitlement, Narcissism,privilege.
I have to leave the country to experience any sense of affection +/or appreciation American women are stone cold fish.
CBGBConnisur
12-15-02, 08:15
I read that Cameron Diaz made about 45 million dollars this year and Julia Roberts made over 200 million!!!! Give me a break neither of them are worth anywhere near that much money. I have been to so many countries and have seen women that can easily outclass either of those two. Lie down on Ipanema in Rio and you will see what I mean, the place is filled with stunning and gorgeous women all over. One good tip for any guy who travels abroad, be yourself. Thats it most women around the world just want a guy that acts himself not some superhero.
CBGB, c'mon, that's hardly fair. John Travolta and tons of others aren't worth what they get paid either, if you want to simply use money and looks as criteria -- and the same could be said of tons of athletes. Personally, I say hurrah for Diaz, Roberts, Travolta and every overpaid ballplayer there is for putting themselves on display and managing to make dollars off of it -- most people don't have the talent, drive, or chutzpah to do it.
And Sinanjumaster, the problem I have is that you translate dissent into America-hating. As an American I figure I not only have a perfect right but responsibility to take my country to task -- it's part of my duty as a citizen to work for improvement. If that means pointing out models of things in other countries that I think are superior, it doesn't mean that I'm saying "we should be XYZ country" or that I'm not happy to be American. Saying I think the US is repressed sexually compared to other countries or that we're idiots about guns, doesn't mean I'm planning or advocating jumping the first plane for anywhere in particular, just that we should do something we as Americans don't do a lot of -- which is look at the rest of the world as having, in some instances, better ways of doing this or that, as opposed to standing inside our borders thumping our chests about our superiority. And there are plenty of reasons to dislike this country and its policies, so having someone articulate those reasons should be an occasion for taking stock and considering the complaint as opposed to humming a patriotic hymn.
Sorry, thought this thread was about US women.
I am at heart a libertarian. I don't want to hear about stiffer gun/drug/"moral" charges by the gov. I don't support imperialistic, milartaristic meddling in foreign affairs.
And I don't support laws scripted in favor of any "minority". American women have it damn easy, they are Spoiled Rotten!!
What the hell this has to do with Patriotism is beyond me.
strange this has become a foreigh relations seminar. my 2 cents.
the problem with holding up other countries as exemplars of a better world view is that someone has to be the adult. these days, that's the usa - whether it got there by accident or design. anyone who is an adult realizes it carries a lot more responsibilities than benefits.
it's easy for the kiddies to run around going "you're not the boss of me" and "i don't have to if i don't want to", but the adults have to pay the mortgage and make sure the roof doesn't leak, not junior. you can bet if the roof did leak junior would be blaming dad. if it had been left to the kiddies in europe slobo would still be [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) and cleansing his way through the balkans. saddam would own kuwait and very possibly saudi arabia.
africa is pretty much a continuing disaster with millions of dead. a mess basically created by colonial europe. they could jump in any time, but somehow never do.
china in tibet - europe, russia and japan a lot closer than the us. still mia.
none of these things make america perfect, just the guy with the responsibility. anyone else who wants the responsibility is welcome to step up. when the romans pacified an area, they didn't leave until they were forced out. pretty much the same with spain, russia, the ottomans and the brits. be careful what kind of world hegemony you wish for.
Sinanju Master
12-15-02, 17:21
Hardbag, I couldn't possibly have said it better myself....
Sinanju Master
12-15-02, 17:23
D-oh! Hardbarg
Well, I'm going to dive out of this foreign relations discussion as it's off-topic, but with one last comment -- it's precisely that attitude "we're the adults, you're all misbehaving children" that makes the rest of the world understandably bristle. Everything on the list of what we did that was "good" can easily be replaced by what we did that was bad -- support countless dictators because they were strategically useful, ignore ethnic fighting in places a bit less white than the Balkans, etc. It's a pointless game.
I'm wandering around this afternoon at temples in Sukothai which were built in the 13th century, with civilization having been in this area as of the bronze age. Considering the people and culture here (and elsewhere) to be children is condescension at best and foolish underestimation at worst. America is a blip on the historical chart at this point, a couple of hundred years with only the last century or so really meaning anything in terms of being a world power. If we're going to be "adults" then we should know and learn from history -- and the undoing of the powerful because of their own arrogance is one of history's most recurring themes.
And I also can't help but find it completely ironic to see this attitude in a thread where American women are repeatedly and understandably taken to task for their inflated senses of self-importance. Apparently it's endemic in the culture, as the women are definitely not the only ones with such a view of themselves. Perhaps in this thread we should be considering other root causes besides feminism to blame for American women's attitudes -- such as the culture as a whole, which places emphasis from the moment we're born on competition and being number one, and which promises that if you buy the right products and adopt specific trendy social attitudes you will inevitably be desirable and irresistible. Those have their good sides, of course, but they also definitely have their downsides as well, and a constant defensive articulation about how great you are, male or female, is one of them.
well joe, the fact remains, someone has to be the adult. someone has to make the hard choices. read the whole post - responsibilities outweigh the benefits. adults realize that. whining teenagers don't. saddam takes over the oil fields, the lights go out in japan, not chicago. china "repatriates" taiwan, darn, that's a real shame. if india & pakistan start lobing nukes, my guess is you'd find some rationale to blame the us. you know, just another example of ignoring ethnic fighting in places a bit less white than the Balkans. the definiton of adult is "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
last up were the brits. when that unraveled the applicants for the job were hitler, stalin, and mao. so, who do you nominate? maybe you prefer wahabism.
wait, i know. if everyone at the un would just hold hands, sing kumbaya, and promise to make nice, never try to rise above their neighbor, why then it would be a perfect world of absolute equals. no adults required. yeah, that's it.
sukothai, that's somewhere in utopia isn't it? wish i could live there.
p.s. - learn not to take metaphors literally.
Rubber Nursey
12-16-02, 17:47
Now c'mon guys. From previous discussions, I would suggest that most of us are very patriotic citizens of our various countries. Since we are ALL gonna think we're "right", this debate could continue into the next millenium. And regardless of which part of the world you're from, getting into a shitfight about which country has the biggest balls is not gonna help anyone find good American pussy!!
I think Joe made a great point about looking at the entire American culture rather than at women's attitudes in particular, but I'm guessing that line of discussion could get rather volatile at the moment! Let's make love, not war guys! (Ok, make that "Let's have hardcore, hanging from the lightfittings, animalistic sex...not war". Better?).
Now how about we all gather around into a circle and hold hands.
**Kumbaya, my lord...Kumbaya.....**
i know that if i live in a country where the women don't put out and are money hungry prudes, i would either be violent or complain about the violence as well. this country is good in every other way except for the lack of sex. it's the "gift of shame" that causes women not to put out. and yes, lack of sex does make you insane. look at my hometown, new york city where [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) has always been high or even skyrocketed since former mayor rudy guliani disneyized it. there are no porn shops, topless only strip clubs, no prostitution or escort services, and to top it all off, women are taught to abstain from sex since childhood. what else could a guy do but to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) them and then kill the women in the process to hide the crime and then there are fewer women for the good guys. i don't know if anyone else notices but there are fewer women in the streets of new york or in the personal ads than men! i look in personal ads and bars and there are 10xs as many men as women. and don't tell me that in this day and age of feminism that they are sitting home barefoot and pregnant making babies. not to mention, most of these women are prudes and won't put out at all! there is so much competition for pussy here that the nice, athletic built, handsome but short asian guy gets left out. this is enough to drive anyone into homosexuality. no wonder there is such a big homosexual population in this fucked up city.
lucky for me, there is brazil, montreal, europe, thailand, and other countries. at least i know that foreign travel is an option and that's what keeps me from going ballistic and [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) the remaining few women in this city or becoming gay. lack of sex causes the higher [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) status we have over other countries. not to mention, the unreported cases. i am not saying that [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) doesn't happen in other countries but there is a much lower statistic of it. also, women are more prone to say yes to sex in other countries than in america where the american women are taught that it is shameful and that we have to pry sex from them. this is why there is more forced sex than consenting sex in america which accounts for the [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) cases.
i said i'd dive out of the political thread, and i will, but i suggest, hardbarg, that you practice what you preach and also read the whole message, and perhaps consider what was said before replying with your apparently trademark condescension. your message was very far from difficult to understand, for any number of reasons. and i daresay i'm far better versed in metaphors than you, as they're my stock in trade. literal or not, they carry weight, especially when implying other cultures and countries are children. perhaps, as a representative of an "adult" culture, you should be more careful with your metaphoric insults.
and darkseid, although i mostly agree with you, (except for the implication that [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) and killing are logical responses to lack of sex) i think you've lapsed rather severely into hyperbole when you say there's more forced than consenting sex in america. let's keep in mind, a well, that new york is a world unto itself, and not completely representative of the rest of the country in the degree of it's sexual mess, though it certainly is in the same spectrum.
Guys,
I, too, am growing a bit weary of this ongoing geopolitical "shit fight." Pleassse!!!
Being perhaps the oldest guy on this site I'm afraid that I might die of old age before it subsides on its own. C'mon, this is about "American Women" and the poor Yanks who have to endure their antics.
Actually, many of us are opting not to "endure" their antics anymore. Just read an outstanding posting from Darkseid about Montreal. Well done my man! Montreal is going on my itinerary thanks to Darkseid.
Just returned form Edinburgh last week and had a great time cavorting around the legendary sauna scene there. I had read that BBBJ's and CIM are the norm there. I can verify that this is accurate information. Amazing.
In addition to the legendary saunas there (London Street, Blair Street, etc., etc.), the women are entirely different. Just hanging in the pubs and chatting up women is sooo easy. The women there - and people in general - are so pleasant and congenial. Talked to several women who also INSISTED that they buy me a drink. I later learned that this is normal pub protocol there. Imagine some woman in America insisting that they buy a guy a drink??? By the way they drink shots of malt Scotch whiskey there like it's water.
As I fly home from my trips to Europe having met working girls from many different countries and cultures, I'm amazed at how liberated and open minded they are about sex and many other things in general. How and when did American women become as repressed and backward as the are??? What cultural forces created such a sociological phenomenon??? Yes, yes, I know that there are exceptions but this is such a persistent observation on the part of many American men who have had the opportunity to go to other countries.
Interestingly, a friend of mine retired to Costa Rica two years ago and reports that he is living very well. His money goes a very long way. He rents a villa, has a maid and all of the women that he could ever handle. Any other recommendations out there for countires to retire to??? America and American women in particular are off my radar screen. By the way, for those of you who would label me "disloyal" or something, I spent two years in the military so don't even get started.
By the way, RN, I appreciated you sentiment in reference to "...finding good American pussy." This appears to be, unfortunately, a contradiction in terms it seems. Geez, they just auctioned off all of the furniture at the Mustang Ranch in Nevada which is the only state in America where prostitution is legal. Actually, it's only legal in some of the counties of Nevada.
Oh well, such is the fate of heterosexual males in America it seems.
Rubber Nursey
12-17-02, 13:51
Paddy,
"How and when did American women become as repressed and backward as the are??? What cultural forces created such a sociological phenomenon???"
Is it true that America has ads on TV encouraging abstinence until marriage? I KNOW it's true that the very same week Britain LOWERED the age at which teenaged girls could access contraception without their parents consent, the States INCREASED the age! Prostitution, strip clubs and pornography are severely censored and/or prohibited. Everyone in America is encouraged to "Just say NO" to practically everything sexual.
And yet...like the rest of the world...the American people are subjected to the constant barrage of sex in advertising, in the movies, in magazines and on the Internet. Girls are told by the MEDIA to pout and swing their hips and show some flesh, but they are told by their GOVERNMENT and society that "good girls" don't act like that. Men are shown images of women as sex objects, but get shot down if they actually treat a woman that way. I don't blame American women (and men!) for not knowing where the hell they stand!
What do you think? Do you agree? The media and modern culture seems to be getting more and more "in your face" about sex, whereas the US Government seems to be getting more and more conservative. This is an observation from afar of course, so please feel free to correct me if I'm under the wrong impression. (We all know how completely wrong the media can be!!) But if it's correct, then surely being constantly assaulted with diametrically opposing views on sexuality can't be healthy!
Out of interest, I would think that sort of push/pull influence would result in women becoming what we call a "cocktease"...girls who act like sex goddesses, sleaze all over you until you can't take it any more, and then refuse to go to bed with you. Is that a common occurence in America? Just wondering...
you are right on the money rn. the sex situation in america is sort of like the carrot on a stick. the government forbids sex while the media tempts us with it. the media advertises their products using something we want but can't readily get which is sex. the government takes sex away by raising the age of getting condoms to 21 from 18, banning pornography, closing down strip clubs and brothels, and teaching abstinence in public service commercials. the restrictions on the sale of condoms to minors is a reason for the high teens pregnancies as well. i suppose they want teens to get pregnant so that they would scare other people away from sex and become prudes or even homosexuals. this push/pull mentality of sex is the reason there are so many more [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) in this country than in any other. there is no way to relieve the sexual tension we build up with the barrage of sexual images and thoughts from the media because the government makes it unavailable.
honestly i hate this aspect of america and don't jump the gun and blast me as unpatriotic but i would leave here when i retire early from my job because of my lack of success with meeting a wife here. yes, i have to leave here if i want to find a good wife and get married because american women are the pits and would make the worst wife and this is partly due to the government influence that makes them prudes. a lot of american women don't put out when you first meet them and they don't put out when you get married to them. that is also why there are so many divorces and affairs and that is because the wife doesn't supply the husband with sex.
women in america know that men want sex yet they don't want to supply it. and yes, rn, it is a common practice for women to be a cocktease then refuse to go to bed with you. some even think this is a compromise but i think it is more torturous than a woman just saying no. at least if the woman says no up front, i can just leave and not waste time and money on a date with the prude. this happened to me many times on dates with american women. one girl after numerous dates tempting me even said that she was "not that type of girl and would save herself for marriage".
ok captain metaphor. anytime you want to deal with the substance of the issue, just jump in. if the responsible party of the edifice and it's (unaffiliated) occupants doesn't keep the roof up, everyone gets wet. (i hope this language is sufficiently sanitized for your sensibilities.) i'm still waiting to hear your alternative.
i'll put this to rest if you will.
Banana Joe
12-17-02, 16:38
from baby killers to wife beaters
the media attack on men, and coverup of violence by women
by michael gilson de lemos
the recent titillating spate of ghastly stories on military wife beating[1] carried by services as reuters is part of the open hypnotism of the american public now underway.
during the vietnam war men were excitedly characterized as baby-killers — and no doubt there were shocking things covered up by military fat cats — but this has spread throughout the culture so by the mid-eighties police forces began training courses on the assumption that married men, especially any with guns, military background, or self-defense skills (though apparently not the police) were inherently abusers. in one course in pittsburgh that i reviewed, that was the phrase: “…marriage is an inherently abusive male dominance relationship.”
the truth is the us is suffering an epidemic of husband beating, false accusations, robbery, abuse and murder of males by women with legal and cultural impunity. they no more view what they do as a crime than the old oppression of peasants was thought a crime, even by the peasants.
many men, afraid of being accused as “abuse enablers” and led by false chivalry, are joining in their own destruction like eloi running to serve the morlochs. and beware — the us is exporting this epidemic of social hysteria to foreign countries through incessant tv shows, un meetings, and scholarly blarney. this is not to say abuse of females does not occur. but that i have to make sure to include that disclaimer tells you that the culture waved bye-bye to rational discussion of these matters years ago, and is slowly dragging the rest of the world with it.
take the most scary sounding feminist tract you can find, reverse the use of male and female, multiply by perhaps 10, and brother, you will have the truth. like blacks demeaned decades ago, men have become accustomed, habituated to an open prison and constant indignities — while the whites who inflicted them were convinced they were the black‘s best friends.
an experiment: show a video of a woman hitting a man to both sexes. most will perceive male abuse, or justified female attack. try it, take a scene from tv. my experience is that more men think they see the man hitting the woman.
when many, vaguely hearing the soothing voice of the hypnotist, look at a potato and see an apple, that is the classic definition of mass hypnosis.
do you believe your lyin' eyes?
forget the additional narcosis of academic studies, news reports, and endless government pronouncements. use your head to observe. try this experiment: go to your cable tv tomorrow afternoon around 4 pm (prime time female viewing hours) and jot down on a legal pad, one line for each channel, a summary of what you see. just look for 15 seconds or so per channel till you get the gist. this is what consultants call a “gilson snapshot” — typically, you will find over 80 percent of the channels portray abuse, devaluing, or demeaning of men. see if you experience highlights similar to these as you flip the channels, one by one:
an afternoon cartoon: the girls push around the boys, who somehow just can‘t get science. barney appears afterward to say let’s all be friends.
a show on financial empowerment for divorced women
a wife in a movie discovers her husband is involved in an affair and sets out to kill him to everyone’s approval
a man is slapped by a woman
a woman screams at her son and calls him a loser. she is then praised by the talk show host for attending anger management class. the boy is told it is up to him to keep her calm by a guest therapist.
a man is shot by a woman
“the more you know” series of ads warns abuse can happen to anyone, so call for help immediately when he, repeat he, does it
a man says he is wildly in love with a woman who just kicked his testicles and insulted his father
a news report on forced or fraudulent government castration of men in india — focus? the emotional effects on the women, unhappy with their subsequent sex lives …but who are learning they can now remarry, and many of whom targeted their unsuspecting husbands for such “radical birth control” to government bureaucrats in the first place. “improvements must be made based on experiments there before this can be rolled out to america,” says the commentator.
a woman shoots her boyfriend for buying a stereo without consulting her
a woman throws off her wedding veil and abandons the groom to have what looks like a personal erotic moment while driving a car
another abandons her boyfriend and steals his car after discovering a soft drink is all she needs in life
a court case is interrupted when a woman begins to shampoo her hair and is happily pursued by sex maniacs, cheer-led by a psychotherapist
a government panel determines more funds are needed for “violence against women”
a man bursts on the screen saying "there is a plot by the government to use women to take over the world!” that one made be pause. alas, it was an old comedy — the man is soon characterized as mad
barry scheck is interviewed with his discovery that dna shows, in apparently those few cases where the police did not screw up the evidence, that 1/3rd of those serving time for [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) (in many states until recently still a capital offense) were falsely accused. the panel afterward speculates on the “growing problem” that this fact may discourage women from making domestic violence accusations. the commentator continues, “of course there is the rare case as we saw with barry scheck, maybe one in a million cases, where the woman lies.” “or much more likely just made a mistake because she was upset,” says the other. the two women both nod, satisfied with the math that turns one third into a million to one shot.
a rerun of donahue. he says under no circumstances should you hit a woman, even if she attacks you or must fight back. this is followed by a news story of the pardon by the governor of a woman who dug through several walls to beat her disabled husband to death while he repeatedly called police who felt his call was insignificant. she felt abused, said the governor. it is a victory for women, said several women’s shelters and advocacy groups.
a man comes home to discover his girlfriend has cleaned out the house and run off with a lesbian. he sets out to win her back after she hits him over the head with a bat
a woman throws a drink at a man who says she looks better in the blue dress
in the final episode of star trek, captain kirk finds his body stolen by a sympathetically portrayed woman
a woman fakes a [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) scene to frame her lover and makes off triumphantly with her husband’s money, whom she has just murdered. her husband is bad as he deals drugs, unlike her, who wants a better life.
boys are embarrassed by a smug teacher because they can’t give the birthdate of susan b. anthony or name when votes happened for women. they are not taught when, or by whom, votes were won for men
a man tries to help an eccentric and distressed visiting professor by inviting him to stay over. his wife leaves him
on a nature show, a female praying mantis eats the male while mating
in afghanistan a desperate father whose home was destroyed by american bombing has his young daughters take in piecework. this, says the reporter, is a vestige of moslem male dominance the us is trying to correct. the reporter patronizingly asks the wife why she doesn’t leave him since he won’t send the daughters to school and continues luridly on the custom of polygamy. the reporter has apparently forgotten she also reported the us bombs had pulverized the school to flinders.
a man is slapped and hit by his girlfriend and called an abuser because he did not tell her that he was adopted.
psychologists discuss the “controversial” proposition that fathers are beneficial
a cnn reporter reveals the shocking fact that in arab countries, women do not automatically get custody. tune in tonight for the courageous story of a woman who kidnapped her son to america after leaving her husband to avoid the custom of the country where the boy has grown up.
a man gets twenty years for consensual non-vaginal sex with his wife. she gets therapy
a raped 12 year old boy is ordered to pay child support to the [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126), his teacher
a story on deadbeat dads features a man who must, under antique laws, pay support even though the child was by the man with whom his wife was two-timing him. “women are fighting back against the many men who seek to avoid their legal obligations,” intones the reporter
“you worm!” a woman tells a befuddled curly, slapping the icon of male power.
what message do young girls watching with their mothers, or police who work the night shift and watch this, get?
if some satirist came up with this it might be denounced as exaggerated and showing more the anxieties of the satirist. but it is normal us tv fare at the beginning of the third millennium. some days are worse, others better. if one looks at the programming of 20 years ago when cable first came out, it is hardly much different.
is this tv fare, fed every day into homes, by current definitions the real pornography and feeder of sexual or domestic violence? or is the attack on “pornography” in part an attack on any attempt by men to understand in images the social reality and define it independently?
in contrast, a recent show where a man dates a series of women with a prospect of marriage (or at least a 6 month relationship, they are legally the same these days in most states; uh, that wasn‘t a joke) — that is, the 20-odd women simperingly chase the man — is considered so daring it is a nightime sensation. but it confirms the devaluing attitude of violence: what sort of female-dependent, short-sighted, uncritical, superficial, self-devaluing wretch would make a marriage choice — of the mother of his children to be — this way?
america’s ideal date who works and doesn‘t mess about the house if he knows what‘s good for him, that’s who.
go through this tv list and reverse the genders. what do you see now? put any minority group — or any group — in place of the men. how does it all sound now? would it not be a miracle if there was no violence against men? conversely, what attitudes are making such tv fare attractive?
go to any newstand, look, really look, at the titles of the women’s magazines: “show him who’s boss,” “how to turn him on — and off,” “faking sex”[2]. reverse the genders and imagine popular mechanics running such titles.
not that the articles are particularly objective: in “faking it” l. featherstone at columbia journalism review describes how facts are re-arranged in magazines for women to suit the prevailing ideology.[3]
it need not be arcane. in an article on sexual enjoyment, a married couple were having relations 5 times a week. the editor changed it to three times since such happy marriages where women revel (perhaps in “the inherent abusive relationship” of marriage) were “impossible.”
not to worry — it is editorialized that such fraud in truth-telling is just: “women's magazines sometimes seem like they feel afraid…” of what? male violence? ask a woman if she makes the tacit association.
but there’s more.
doesn't fit the paperwork
it seems forgotten today that the term domestic violence was originally used in the ‘60s to describe female abuse of males. in 1972 when i started college it was not taught as a gender problem but one of counseling involving aggravating factors such as illness, mental disorders, or alcohol. a policewoman who came said both women and small men were far more violent and more of a problem for police to handle than men or large men. this attitude had changed radically as graduation approached.
ask any police old timer what was really going on in domestics then — and today. but wait till he retires or will speak off the record: police who say inconvenient things have little doubt they will be dismissed. indeed, as one officer told me, female violence is rarely reported because, quite simply, it doesn’t fit the paperwork. plus there are no promotions for what is not tracked. consider:
most police departments do not track female versus male abuse. this inevitably influences both behavior and data.
in many jurisdictions police may be reprimanded for not arresting the male
according to several police departments that i contacted, all domestic violence training and awareness programs presume there is no abuse of men. programs teach that if a woman denies she was abused, that is evidence of domestic violence
open your phone book. tell me how many centers for violence on males that you see
in pennsylvania a heavyset woman raped and beat a man with a cola bottle to insensibility, screaming for sex even as several police wrestled her off. was she tried for abuse or [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)? was she even arrested? no, she was initially summonsed for disorderly conduct as the man was rushed to the hospital. police told the man he was lucky police arrived and he was not charged with [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123). there is no reporting box for [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or abuse of males on the police reports, it seems. the attitude is summarized by this: it got nationwide coverage in “news of the weird” comic section.
this is not weird or funny. it is sinister reality. an arab woman who is about to be stoned for plotting the murder of her husband with a paramour is subject to sympathetic international headlines. (no, i do not advocate government death penalties). in contrast? violence against an american man is a comic strip.
tell me, were you among the millions of american males who righteously denounced oj so there would not be any suspicion you — shudder — sympathized with woman-beaters? even as you admitted to friends you thought the evidence was a little screwy?
ask yourself, is one reason we are seeing this epidemic of accusation is the subconscious guilt over abortion? (sure there’s a right to abortion. but when you have hundreds of thousands of abortions, the problem isn’t abortion, it’s a symptom.)
could it be that people in academia and government now devalue their own instrumentalities, such as the military, as a remnant of independence — in favor of the nebulous all-problem solver, the abstraction “government”?
the only reason the federal government even reports female abuse of men is that a few libertarians, led by me, conducted a 10 year letter writing campaign until they did. as the statistics show, under the most charitable interpretation, wives and girlfriends are murdering and beating men with abandon. and why not? the practical legal consequences are less, police will readily arrest a man on mere accusation, but only a woman in many places (by formal or informal policy) if they see it with their own eyes. if anything males vastly under-report attacks compared to assumptions of female under-reports. why? women are psychologically supported, relatively; men endure ridicule.
janet reno is just a klepto
now realize the shocking figures do not reflect that police — and police i have spoken to estimate that over 95 percent of violence is female initiated — often cannot or are discouraged from reporting female violence. these are figures that got through the filtering system. and then realize that the worst violence of all, false accusations, is not tracked by the government.
worse, federal procedure when i last checked in 1998 was that even if a crime was found to have been a hoax, the fbi still reported it as a crime.
indeed, we often enable a female criminal class in all respects, not just one crime type. increasingly, the language itself seems to be making female crime invisible:
a woman who steals expensive clothes is not a thief, but a kleptomaniac in need of counseling. a man who takes a slice of pizza as a joke gets life under the three strikes law.
a woman who murders her child is distraught. a man who shoots a deer to feed his family is a violent gun nut.
a woman who conducted an audacious embezzlement scheme for millions gets probation as “having a difficult past.” the boyfriend who reported the crime to police the next day gets 1 year for not reporting it soon enough.
a woman against a male who makes a false accusation for profit is rarely prosecuted. her victim finds even if he wins the case that no crime is reported
one day i went to court to observe a domestic violence trial. the couple had been married several years. the man claimed the woman tried to poison him, beat him as he slept, and then called the police and cried [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) when he recovered. he was arrested. she immediately raided the bank accounts, her children’s trust funds, and tried to seize the house though she had just sold her own. she had a history of allergic mental instability. she had a court appointed free attorney (with whom she admitted she was having an affair) as the money she was spending from her husband was still legally his. he had no attorney as the money she had, still technically his, disqualified him from legal aid. as he struggled to tell his story and presented evidence such as her tampering with his insurance policies in the last few months, the judge kept saying it was not important or interrupted. when the woman on cross examination was caught in palpable lies the judge said it didn’t matter — she was “upset.” the man left with a three month sentence, forbidden to see his children and $400 child support on an $800 salary if he could get it. from his jail cell the next day he could hear a parade of women chanting against domestic violence.
eventually his wife got off the allergy, snapped back to normal and disavowed the whole thing. last i knew they were still trying to pick up the pieces.
where was the violence here? who were the perpetrators? where was it reported so academics can study it?
increasingly, thanks to the internet, a variety of eccentric but informative sites have emerged as men begin to talk to one another and realize that if the nation had been invaded by psychopathic infiltrators from mars who had jimmied the entire legal system and brainwashed their very families, things could scarcely be worse.[4] in the last year a startling array of men and women from all parties, religious beliefs, and secular persons are focusing on this as a major item among humanity’s woes. amazingly, these sites regularly collect hard-to-find government statistics, collate similar stories from many sources and countries, and act as an intellectual underground for academics who go to them to track down contrarian information that has disappeared from state university research libraries — and, as i found recently, which sites are censored so they cannot be accessed from some public libraries.
a victimless crimewave
government academics tell us that men dominate the us prison population and order studies to find out what is wrong with the men, as they design ever more byzantine prison and sentencing proposals. what is wrong with the men is they put these academic twits in power in the first place.
such academia doesn’t want to hear any of it, particularly now that this is becoming an industry. when an occasional academic does a study that challenges the status quo, or as happens revisits studies to find that the raw data proves the reverse, they are picketed, attacked by colleagues, reviled on tv, denounced as “enabling abuse” — as happened to researchers in 1994 in western pennsylvania, as reported in a series in the pittsburgh papers.[4] as a commentator, j. lester, noted, a piece describing the “path breaking” and “controversial” research was entitled “girlfriends strike back.”
forget draconian or outdated laws on smoking funny cigarettes or reading playboy as the most common victimless crime. st. petersburg, florida police tell me they now spend over 65 percent of their time on domestics — and with lawyers in the act, many of these are obvious set-ups, with police joking women have their divorce attorney’s name right there.
but the police nonetheless arrest the man.
and under the nurenburg-style domestic violence court system, she immediately gets half of the income, the house, seizes the bank accounts, and moves on to the next victim.
academics piously report this as an income loss to the female. what bilge.
so for some time i have been expecting the military would be the next target in the culture of substituting scandalous accusation for thought. why? because people i know in the military have been complaining of an epidemic of violence and false accusations against men . the honest career officers feel powerless to act, except by dragging their feet, or meet the problem by resigning before they as well are accused of something. and why not? an accusation earns:
sympathy
a cushy divorce or settlement
blackmail to drop the charges for a payment
they even get his gun — men lose the right to own a gun if accused
in korea, they had classes at uso’s for prospective military brides. an officer who monitored them one day was shocked to discover the material was about how women had the right to refuse sex, divorce anytime, make unsupported sexual accusations, and seize marital assets in wonderful america. “but isn’t that a sort of slavery of men? isn’t that a sort of prostitution of marriage?” said one bride to be. others passed around cards of domestic violence and divorce lawyers in the us.
“if you kill your husband while he is trying to have sex, even kiss you, against your will, in the right circumstances it isn’t murder,” said the facilitator brightly.
the officer canceled the wedding.
i also learned of stories like the pilot who came home literally from a mission in europe, was told by his wife to take out the garbage, said he wanted a glass of water first — so she stabbed him. ”we tell soldiers if they’re real men they’ll take it. unofficially. stuff like that happens everyday," said my informant, “so i suspect sooner or later the men will be blamed.”
indeed. the government has announced a zero-tolerance policy for domestic violence of soldiers — male soldiers.
i thought this seminar in korea must be some naderesque church-ladies’ program gone wild until a year later i tuned in pbs and saw a presentation on korean military brides. there was the program, or one much like it, and running commentary on how marrying an american soldier was exploitation of these women. so no wonder they murder their wives — they’re already exploiters.
other officers and soldiers over the years have told me of similar discoveries of these seminars — including near us military bases.
were there any near the bases in question? what, exactly, is going on?
if soldiers are murdering their wives, this is terrible. but is it a social problem? is it worse than anywhere else? what happened behind closed doors? is imprisoning somebody or orders of protection really an insulting incitement to violence that does far more harm than good? can any of this even be discussed honestly while the government universities and controlled media churn out questionable data inlaid with hard-luck tearjerkers? what, really are we looking at behind the headlines? does the military track women murdering husbands (i know the answer on that but will leave to you the pleasure of making a few enlightening phone calls to find out) and how does it compare?
no. this is murder, not some domestic violence or anything else, and should be coldly analyzed as such — or for factors such as upbringing, alcohol or other favorite government causes that have quietly become has-beens paving the way for the new social crusade. that other things going on are studiously ignored tells a different tale of managed social hysteria. it is like the soviet union or nazi germany, when the mundane offense became a “social crime” and suddenly almost everything, bad or good, was also — so real mass crimes in plain sight became invisible.
i often discuss at libertarian events that part of the task is defusing social hysterias. the first step is identification, recognition, naming the unnamable. such hysterias do not take hold without tacit co-operation of go-along “scientists” and scholars with a variety of motives, none noble. thus people with legitimate problems best handled by counselors have seen their suffering politicized by things like the marital [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) laws and “no means no” (except for the bottle wielding female [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126), apparently) violence standards championed by people like then governor ridge, which, in the debates in pennsylvania, happy legislators described as “full employment acts.” are academics paid by taxes from the families they destroy, as we may well have in the article cited[1] , who grab a headline while irresponsibly using government statistics they know, or should know, are misleading — instead of getting out there and doing real academic research that can benefit the public — the worst abusers, and enablers, of them all?
america, face it: by using numbskull government self-righteousness, you have created a nightmare in plain sight of encouraged and sanctioned female violence — on boyfriends, husbands, children that make the most hair-raising feminist allegations against men pale. and other countries, beware: america is exporting this nonsense to you. ask yourselves: what is “domestic abuse” where academics who dissent are terrorized as “abusers“ while police look the other way?
and yet — violence, schmiolence. what we are seeing as a growing number of women, and their male cohorts, use this as a racket. it is really and simply a pandemic of self-righteously legalized theft, mass looting and extortion rarely seen in history.
and many people today may subconsciously recognize this — but are afraid to investigate, or uncertain how to admit it — as they flip the channel to watch the next man being slapped by a woman and told he is an abuser.
Originally posted by RN
Out of interest, I would think that sort of push/pull influence would result in women becoming what we call a "cocktease"...girls who act like sex goddesses, sleaze all over you until you can't take it any more, and then refuse to go to bed with you. Is that a common occurence in America? Just wondering...
Is that a common occurrence in America? Does the Pope shit in the woods? Does a hobby horse have a hickory dick? It is no more of a common occurrence in America than say, the sun rising or the wind blowing.
Banana Joe, your post is accurate about the predicament of men in America. I personally faced physical abuse by an ex-fiancee and there was nothing I could do about it. The police didn't come because they didn't take my phone call seriously. My ex-fiancee came after me with a knife after we spilled drinks on each other after an intense argument. I locked myself into the bedroom which had a lock a tried calling the police but they did not arrive and I had to sneak out the window. She kept stabbing the door and she totally ruined it. All I could do was move back to my parent's place, without my stuff. She even got to keep the engagement ring which costed me $4000. The cops even after repeated calls did nothing but order a restaining order against her to keep 500 ft distance from me. If I had used my martial arts, I would have spent years in prison because my uncle spent 3 years for assault against my former aunt when he tried to defend himself against my aunt who came after him with a pipe. She was labeled as "mentally distraught caused by the stress of the marriage." That is pure BULLSHIT! And my former aunt should have gotten jailed. Instead, she gets his house and car and half his bank account and he gets 3 years imprisonment. This justice system is crap and it DOESN'T WORK when it comes to female domestic abuse. I knew this would have happened if I disarmed the knife and pointed it at her. I would be labeled the abuser for breaking her wrist and pointing a knife at her so that is why I chose to lock myself in the room instead.
You really mean in the good old US of A they have an age limit on buying condoms???????
HC - what is wrong with those people - they want every girl under 21 to get pregnant?????
Talk about living out a fantasy - here a substantial (30%) of girls had sex for real before 15 - and they are either supposed to sleep with 21-year olds, get kids or STD's or what???
Really.....
guys, i hope you don’t mind me thinking that this debate deserved a wider audience so i posted some of the posts here on www.amerikanska.com a forum for americans in/interested in sweden. i got some pretty upset replies. these women seem to think you are not representative of american males in general and that there's nothing wrong with american women.
“what a horrible discussion - these guys really sound disgusting.”
“yeah, what the heck is the point of this?
like we were saying on another thread, some guys see women pretty much only of use as sex toys, with appearance being our most important quality. this kind of drivel just supports our argument.
american women are sure awful for wanting to be seen as whole people with more of a purpose than satisfying idiots like these. what a crime eh?
these "people" i would be happy to have shipped out of the us. and don't muddy the gene pool on your way out!”
“if you'll actually read those quotes closely, you'll see that it's not talking about american women as people, but as objects who don't "put out" enough and cost too much. and one of them even justifies that it's okay to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and kill, since there isn't enough inexpensive meat there in nyc.
so basically, this is discussing meat, breathing blow-up dolls and fantasies. nothing about real american women that i can see.”
“lithium: i think some important descriptions were also edited out with the words: "american men" in your post.
like: american men "who regularly use prostitutes and who are sex tourists".
does this describe the typical american male? someone who travels for the purpose of buying sex, and whose contact with women generally occurs after he provides a credit card number?
then you are calling most american men losers who can't get a date.
i don't recognise 99% of the american guys i know in those posts. generally, my brothers, as one example of american men, had the problem of women shamelessly throwing themselves in their path, right and left. was money exchanged? yes, for a while i accepted money to answer the phone for them.”
“how pathetic!!!! i mean think about. if one has to be a tourist and go to entirely different parts of the world just to get layed........ then obviously it isn't the women of america. clearly the man that feels he must travel to even be able to have sex with someone/anyone, must really have something wrong with him. maybe the guy is such a freak that no one wants anything to do with him. there are alot of sick weirdos out there and i have met a few in my life journey. and, if a man can't take a little time to show the interest in the woman he is courting (other than just sex) than maybe the guy should have to pay those big $ for it. screw that!!!!!!!!!!
sigh...............ok , i vented. it's just that $hit like this pisses me off!!!
back to being a lady <batting eyes>”
Wanderer1000
12-18-02, 01:21
Lithium -
I like feminine, charming and tender women. Thanks for reminding me why I avoid so many American women.
Sinanju Master
12-18-02, 02:56
Why doesn't someone poll the women on www.amerikanska.com and ask them: "How many of you have NOT led a guy on (by wasting his time and resources) with the expectation that things may progress to an intimate setting where sex takes place? How many of you have NOT wasted the time and money of said guy as if it were a sport, only later to meet with your girlfriends and high-five them and celebrate the attainment of yet ANOTHER notch (in the shape of a large letter 'L') on their purse that represents another loser they teased and lied to in order to use him like a dish rag?" Of course, the poll would show that NO American woman would ever DREAM of doing that! Give me a fucking break! These stool samples DESERVE the bashing they get! RN, American women will cocktease a guy amd waste his time, resources and money quicker than a politician can take a bribe and lie about it!
Lithium, put yourself in a short guys shoes for a moment and think of the ridicule and rejection I face for being shorter than most women. And now that you brought it up, I am considered a freak to American women who care about the height of their men among many other things they also want like money, looks, and even RACE for some. Some AWs (of all races) won't even date a Chinese guy!!! I am not even a hit with the Asian women because of the Amy Tam (damn her soul to hell!) books against Asian men as well as that degrading stereotype that Asian guys have small cocks in America. Unfortunately, I am short (5' 4" tall but 7" in cock length) AND Chinese. One look at me and they laugh or tell their friends that I am too short.
And lithium, not every member here is looking to just get into a woman's pants. We also want to meet less shallow women who would treat us like their EQUALS instead of women that want the perfect guy to be their slave. Yes, I like sex and if she doesn't put out, I expect an open relationship where I can travel to get laid if I don't get it in the homefront. But most American women that don't put out want it both ways. They don't provide sex AND they don't want you to get it elsewhere.
And when I go to Brazil where guys like me are worshipped, I don't always pay for sex. Sex was given to me by someone I met for a short term relationship. Maybe the first 2 nights I paid for sex but the third night, I met a really hot Brazilian girl who was also friendly, and yes, she is also taller than me and considers me handsome! The relationship wasn't just about sex but it was mostly about having a good time with a this new friend I met. Someone by the likes of me would never find that in America. In fact, girls admit they go to clubs to just drink and dance and not to meet any new friends, not even girlfriends. Geez, how ant****ial and there's no reason for it.
Hi,
i've been to the US and other parts of the world for business and the simple fact of the matter is this, if you don't want to experience a woman who argues, plays around and wastes time then dont associate yourself with them, simple as that.
there are millions of wonderful ladies all around the world, american gals make up i think .02% of the world's population or so, what's the big fuss about these american women? it's like they are some sort of bizzare species that need special attention..hahahahaha...they are not bizzare nor are they special...
i like the high class american escorts, nevada, california, new york, florida, north carolina, hawaii, texas..etc are great, i dont deal with the mainstream nine to five american women, what for?
south america, central/eastern europe, asia and africa are the best places for women, incredible actually, your choices are unlimited..
here in australia, mainstream women are friendly as they seem to be in US, good high class escorts in sydney and brisbane, very good...but as for dealing with mainstream girls? unless you like dinner dates, movies, talking, rambling, arguing, listening and all that other stuff...etc good for you, that's a choice you make and you must take full responsibility for it. It's the same as if you love having sex with beautiful women from around the globe, then wonderful, that's a choice you make....simple as that.
as for the violence against these women, i see it in quite a lot countries, not just the US, it all comes down to frustration, insecurity and fear...thats why men and woman play these games, its just a reflection of their frustrations, insecurities and fears...simple as that...
you have to teach people how to treat you, if im with a high class escort, i will explain specifically what i want, like a fetish, and if she can fulfill it or if she doesn't measure up, she isn't considered and is of no real value to me...simple as that, there is a never ending production line high class escorts who are willing an able, simply a numbers game...
take action and start getting what you really want, not what your supposed to want...otherwise, your placing your happiness in the hands of another and that isn't smart...
seeya!!
Hilarious, Lithium, and right on point, I think, though I do think things get a bit distorted by losing context in both instances. Given that this is a forum about sex, of course we're not going to be spending a lot of time discussing batty eyes or fulfilling the "whole person embodied in the woman." That's not the stated purpose of the site, but of course in no way does that imply many of us don't also do those things and more.
Unfortunately, what you've posted as a response is precisely what would be predicted -- rather than even consider the idea that there may be an point to the issue driving this discussion somewhere underneath (you might point out to that site that there is NO corresponding thread for women of other countries and that there are plenty of men from other parts of the world participating in this forum) the immediate response is to respond in kind, by engaging in precisely the kind of namecalling of which this thread often is guilty. Very predictable, and also an indication why it's close to impossible to have a cogent discussion about this issue -- men complain that they're not getting the amount of sex they think is appropriate, and women complain that the men are only after sex. Then the women complain that the guys must be losers and don't treat women right, so why should they expect to get sex, and men say the women are various kinds of money-seeking expletives who aren't worth the effort because no matter what you do they're still going to ration intimacy, so you might as well go somewhere else to find some affection. And around and around it goes.
I've said before and I'll say again that I know plenty of American women who are fine, healthy individuals with fine, healthy sex drives, but I also know an inordinate number who destroy relationships based on their need for control, for reinforcing their self-images, and by engaging in relationship-destructive behavior. Men do the same, of course, and I'm sure we've got our fair share represented here. But the existence of this thread, on a forum where men discuss women all over the planet in a generally positive light, is certainly an indication of a short-circuit somewhere, and I've had similar discussions with friends offline who are far from mongers.
Hi RN and Guys,
RN, are you sure you haven't lived in America??? The questions you posed about American women and sexual behavior here actually pretty well describes what's going on. Or, more correctly, what ISN'T going on.
Yes, there can be little or no doubt that American women have been powerfully influenced by cultural forces here such as religion, the law, standards of behavior, etc. These forces also seem to supercede their sexual drives. This approach-avoidance conflict which they face inevitably leads to being "cock teasers" or as we say in my part of America, "prick teasers." They also seem to get a charge out of pulling this routine and look upon it as a type of female national game or past time. Opinions from you Yanks? An English buddy of mine once said that American women all seem to come from the same sorority or something.
Actually, though, I have "found" that once you get BEYOND all of their defenses, cigarette smoke, snottiness, etc., they are just as human, just as frail and just as desperate as the rest of humanity. I've found it to be a big act much of the time on their part. Do you guys out there agree or disagree with this observation? I've even found this to be true of the "beautiful" women here.
Spoke with a truly beautiful American woman on the airplane recently and she said that people never talk to her, guys never ask her out and that it's been this way her whole life. She said that she used to enter beauty contests when she was young thinking that she'd finally have a stream of steady dates. She stated that the exact opposite happened. She said that many guys view her as "unattainable" or something and won't even try. She said the last date she had was over a year ago and that the guy was amazed when she readily accepted. I'm sure that she's an exceptional case, however. We exchanged business cards (at her request) although I haven't heard from her. Maybe I should take the initiative although she lives near Seattle. Hmm...
Darkseid,
By the way, I'm 6' 4" and I can absolutely assure you that even tall guys get treated like sh#t by American women. They do not discriminate on the basis of height or anything else when it comes to acting like witches. I've found the best and most universal approach to women is to be a nice guy and let them talk about themselves. Women seem to love to talk about themsevles for some reason. I just nod and listen. It seems to work. Just a personal opinion or observation.
The Virgin Terr
12-19-02, 02:31
paddy, your post reminded me of something i read in a book by richard bach titled THE BRIDGE ACROSS FOREVER. it's about his tortured search for a soulmate and how he ultimately found her. when he did, she was a beautiful woman who also claimed men didn't ask her out because they assumed rejection.
being sexually attractive in a world which often punishes or condemns sex is a mixed blessing. i keep that in mind when i observe beautiful women who don't handle the attention they get well.
Sinanju Master
12-19-02, 06:05
[Interestingly, a friend of mine retired to Costa Rica two years ago and reports that he is living very well. His money goes a very long way. He rents a villa, has a maid and all of the women that he could ever handle. Any other recommendations out there for countires to retire to???]
Paddy, I used to live in the Republic of Panama, and it's right next door to Costa Rica. If I'm not mistaken, it has a larger (and maybe a slightly more cosmopolitan) population since it is a center of global commerce what with the location of the Canal and lots of international businesses located there. Just avoid the southern part of Panama near the Colombian border for obvious reasons (kidnapping by Colombian rebels of foreigners). When I lived there (a LONG time ago) the US Dollar went a long way. And yes, the chicas are quite lovely.
I agree with you Paddy. American women are witches that pick out a flaw in you and exploit it to friends. And the saddest thing is if they are with a group of friends, they do this to "raise their self-image" by not seeming easy. In my case, they call me "Tattoo from Fantasy Island", or such other names and laugh at that with their friends. For a taller guy, they will find another flaw. Some make fun of baldness, fatness, careers, etc. In other countries, women don't play this game, or it is rare that they do. In fact, I could even approach a group of girls and single the one I like out that I want to spend the next day or rest of the vacation with.
I wrote my previous post to let off some steam to those that don't understand our plight. And yes, this thing happens to me every week when I go to the lame nightclubs of NYC. I don't know why I bother but I guess I am trying to find something for those times in between vacations but it just isn't happening here in America.
Doctor_Skank
12-19-02, 16:30
I read the posts here quite often to compare my own opinions and experiences with others, finding it particularly interesting since, despite my vast experience, I don't pretend to understand the female of the species.
However I found it really interesting that American girls get such bad rap here. Despite the fact that many let themselves balloon up to fat pigs, cop an attitude or are just against sex, or are just lousy at it, I have also had many fantastic experiences with American women, including some of my best sex...that even compared to Brazilians, Russians, Thais, Germans, Swedes etc etc etc. And there are plenty of really great looking women in America, especially with the cultural diversity that is present.
I think that, as mentioned in another post below, if you can crack an American woman and find the WOMAN inside... not the culturally-manipulated facade on the surface, you can make her feel like a woman... and every woman adores that. And she can be fantastic in bed, faithful and loving.
Or maybe I've just been lucky. Just for the record, my experience has been primarily with women from the western US, whom I met at college. Perhaps geography and level of ed make a difference.
Doctor shank, perhaps you are lucky to have found the 2% of the good apples in this lousy batch of women in America or perhaps she is really a woman born from another country who wasn't here for a long time but ALL of my experiences with American women including the Cuban American ex-fiancee who was corrupted by America and her American witch friend Martha the man-hating feminist, were bad. My cousin in California who is equally as short as me has the same type of experiences as myself and complains of California women. I don't think I'm at fault either or otherwise I would not get any in Brazil, or Europe so I KNOW it's the women here that are bad. Perhaps women in foreign countries aren't as spoiled as women in America and dating me is a treat because I am a nice guy and I can't change that. I treat women like women and not as sex objects or servants unlike the "perfect" guy that American women date here that abuse them and they become disillusioned and hardened toward men with. My ex-finacee seemed like the perfect girl, beautiful and sexy when I first met her and great at sex (not all American women are bad at sex, only the prudes) but then after 3 years in the relationship, she turned into the opposite. She gained 50 lbs, came after me with a knife and kept the $4000 engagment ring I gave her that I wanted back. You'll se, just wait a few years and she'll change!!
Darkseid,
Yes, American women are terrible and they get even worse when they're in a group.
Was is a bar with some friends after playing tennis and in walk four 250 lbs + women. They were loud, on stage and were generally being obnoxious. We moved to another table. I have no doubt that they thought we were fags or something when we moved.
In walked two nice ladies who were slender and feminine in appearance. They had the gall to be in heels, nylons, had earrings on etc. Really nice looking and they acted like ladies. Well, you know what happened next. The 250 pounders really went off on them calling them "Snow White, "Barbie Doll," etc. It was a distgusting display of American womanhood and many American guys have seen this syndrome before. American women who are OK with being feminine and lady-like are often the object of ridicule from other American women.
Herds of American women also pull this stuff on guys. They're bad individually and become much worse in a pack.
Doctor_Skank
12-20-02, 15:57
Although admittedly American women aren't on the top of my list either, your stories are really spooky! Especially the 4 x 250lb group...sounds like the front line of a good college football team. I seriously haven't seen anything like that happen, but do believe you. Sounds actually like the binge-drinking hordes in England... another mecca of the beautiful female...:)
As for California girls, I have heard from many people before that they are total blood-sucking vampire bitches, so I guess (I fear) that you are generally right.
Guess I was lucky.
My beef on American women is their looks... especially the fashion styles... just not feminine enough for my taste. And too much poorly applied makeup.
Anyway, don't live in America anymore so its not my problem. Happy hunting and take it easy.
The Virgin Terr
12-20-02, 23:35
in my opinion the problem with american women is the same as the problem with men and women all over the world, and that is we all live in societies which are more or less devoted to sexual repression and promoting very negative and restrictive views. here in the u.s. our government is spending millions of dollars annually to teach teens to 'just say no to sex" before marriage. how can we expect people to enjoy full and satisfying sex lives as adults when we try so hard to inhibit them during their most formative years?
betty dodson is a relatively famous american who promotes sexual knowledge, freedom, and satisfaction for women through such means as masturbation workshops, teaching them about their clitorises and how best to achieve orgasm. she has a new book out titled ORGASMS FOR TWO about partner sex that includes a chapter on just how sexually ignorant most supposedly sophisticated young professional american women are, and how unrealistic are their romantic ideas about loving relationships. you might want to buy a copy and share it with your girlfriend or prospective girlfriend.
Sinanju Master
12-21-02, 03:18
Darkseid, I remember seeing a news show (either Dateline or 20/20) and they did an experiment about women and their preference (or the lack thereof) for short men. Even though I'm over 6 feet, my heart went out to the guys who are considered short. The women in the experiment pretty much chose tall-er men ALL THE TIME. This is even after they rigged the "résumé" of a couple of the participants. For one guy, the show's producers made him a doctor (surgeon), a best-selling novelist, a millionaire, and athletic ALL ROLLED INTO ONE HUMAN BEING. The women STILL ended up choosing taller men even though one that many chose was relatively a bum with few good attributes by comparison. What truly stunned me was when they were asked in what situation they would choose a short man. One of them said: "If the others were murderers or child molestors, then maybe I'd choose the short guy". Keep on tagging the foreign babes, dude. You don't deserve the aggravation.
Hello, everyone I just wanted to put my two cents in on this subject. I've contributed posts in the past; some of which were quite controversial. But I would just like to add some of my recent experiences and observations with American women:
1) I'm really figuring out that it is not American women that's the problem. It's basically our culture here in America. That's why when some foreign women come here they also become idiots. The culture encourages women to play games with men, be elusive, hold out on sex to get what you want, etc. I've taken numerous trips to Brazil and I've observed how their culture sends a different script to their women. Basically that your sexuality defines who you are. I think that it's interesting that a different script is also sent to the men. What I mean is that I notice here in America there is this cultural thing about men being afraid to talk to women, being afraid of rejection. They make all of these books and make articles about what to say to women and how to meet them. I notice that this is something that is particular to American culture. Basically the culture creates this sexual desperation among men and then exploits for it for material gain. You like the girl you must take her to a expensive restaurant, now that you are dating the girl you must take her shopping, you must buy her this very expensive engagement ring, etc. Also, I must admit that any country with legalized prostitution changes the whole sexual landscape and it changes the way men look at sex because it is readily available. Because prositution is illegal in America you have lot of women "working around the law" by exploiting the dating situation and basically turning it into a prostitution style arrangement. A lot of men want to know "Why are the women so materialistic nowadays?", "Why do the guys with all the money get all the girls" etc. My take on it is that it's the byproduct of a materialistic society and making prostitution illegal. I'm not saying that the government wants prostitution illegal to make money off of the situation. I'm just saying by making prostitution illegal society as a whole benefits from it materially. It in turn makes men more psychologically in tuned to do what ever it takes to get sex. In South America it's totally reversed. It got to the point that I was tired of f@cking and I was ready to come home. I know that might sound weird but that is how much the situation is reversed. I could elaborate further but I won't because I would be writing all day on this subject.
2) One thing that I must admit about America is that the opportunities for material success are amazing here. I am a 26 year old black male (quite attractive I might add) and I have successfully worked my out of the "hood". I honestly am glad I was born here and not in a Brazilian favela because it's easier to succeed here than in a lot of other ghettos around the world. Because of my observations with American culture and American women I have adopted a new state of mind. Exploit America for it's vast resources and opportunites and pursue my lustful pursuits outside of America. Continue to strive educationally and financially and basically become selfish with my viewpoint and "live my life and have fun in other countries". Basically ignore American women and focus on myself and pursue women in other countries. What is so ironic about this mindset is that, as I've adopted it, I have indirectly attracted more American women to me. I believe that psychologically American women have been molded to want this type of man. I have become very aloof around American women. I don't really hide the fact that I don't want sex with them (basically because I'm always sexually satisfied because I'm hooking up with foriegn women) and it's like they slowly but surely become more cuious about me. I've come to the conclusion that this particular mindset is actually a way to beat American women at their own game (even though I'm not trying to beat them at anything; I'm just making observations). I think when it really comes down to it, American women are victims as much as American men are to the "American" culture. I constantly see profoundly unhappy women here in America (compared to foriegn women) and I believe that women get messages that stop them from being themselves: don't kiss a guy on the first date, don't have sex until at least the third date, etc. All of these messages destroy romance (here I go with romance talk on a sex site. Ha ha.) in American relationships.
3) My third and last observation as that if you really look at it, a lot of American women's and men's world viewpoint is very small. I mean a lot women (not all) have never left America and don't really know about what's happening around the world. As a whole many women are ignorant to what is happening in other countries and other cultures. I bring this up because I meet a lot of people from foreign countries in my line of work and one thing I notice over and over is how friendly a lot (not all) of foriegn people are. In America people are meaner, angrier and more aggressive. This is just a generalization. I know some Al Queda members could shut this opinion up pretty quick. But what I'm trying to say is that not having the ability to travel has a profound effect on the women also. I think that 's why you have such an overabundance of basically rude women and men here. I think that's the thing with a place like Brazil. Before I even went people would tell me how freaky the women are etc., etc.. But nobody told me about how friendly the people were. The friendliness of the people is also affecting the women's attitudes. This is not in just Brazil but all of South America.
Lastly, these are my opinions. And you know what they say about opinions. Thank you to everybody for your enjoyable
commentary. My question is who is ready to write a book about the effects of the American women's strive for the "perfect" American male which creates the American male who is "superperfect" for the foreign female. We need someone with a master's degree in psychology I guess. I don't know. Until later. Peace.
Phil,
Excellent posting and I'm compelled to agree with virtually everything you said.
I, too, have noticed that once I focused on foreign women exclusively, I suddenly had all the American women I could handle. It's like once you ignore them they take it as a type of personal challenge to get your attention and affections. Getting a man's attention and playing with him seems to be the national pastime here in America. Once we don't play their game, they're suddenly very insecure and become highly motivated.
I would also add that once an American woman finds out that you want nothing to do with American womanhood and go overseas to find sex, they get REAL indignant and downright nasty. My sister-in-law who has tried to set me up with her friends and co-workers in the past went ballistic when my sexual escapades in Europe became fully known to her. She's a very nice person and has always been wonderful to me but she damn nearly disowned me when she found out that I was only interested in non-American women. One day over some drinks she point-blank asked me why I'm interested only in non-American women when there are so many women available in America? One of my counter arguments was why does she drive a new Volvo S60 and not an American car? Better quality, easier maintenance, better looking, etc. ??? She's still steamed at me but I have the right to choose unless someone has vacated the Constitution. By the way, that argument didn't work either. So be it.
By the way, I assume that you go to Rio and I surmise that you would highly recommend it. It's a highly attractive destination but I'm a bit leery of all the "reported" crime and the language barrier. Your thoughts and recommendations???
The Virgin Terr
12-23-02, 05:11
being short is definitely a disadvantage with women but it can be overcome. 2 cases in point: dudley moore and roman polanski. both just barely over 5 feet tall, and by accounts i'm aware of, very successful with women. polanski was married to sharon tate, as beautiful a woman as anyone could want, and moore had a long term relationship with susan anton, who was nearly 6 feet tall, and no slouch herself in the looks department. i believe women are more interested in how successful a man is rather than his looks or physical characteristics, based on what women themselves say. i saw that 20/20 report also, and think it was only somewhat accurate. any study can be slanted.
Phil, your posts are very accurate about our situation here in America. We live in a sexually repressed society which forbids the sale of contraceptives to minors and they also keep the teens in the dark about sex. No one teaches teenagers about pregnancy and disease with unsafe sex and no one encourages them to have it safely either. The teenage years are the most curious of our years. This is when we experiment to define who we are. (This is also the time when we choose to be straight or gay but that's another story). Since American women are taught to abstain from sex, they are now defined and raised to be prudes and hold out on sex. In Europe, teens are taught if they want to do it, do it safely with contraceptives. Even oral is to be done with a condom.
Sinanjumaster, I think that 20/20 report is very accurate about American women not liking short guys, being a short guy myself. Virgin Terr, there may be a few examples of successful short guy dating but what about non-celebrities like myself? American women either laugh at short guys when they are approached by short guys like myself or they scoff at us. I have experienced this many times and had so few success with American women that I just forgot about them after discovering foreign women. I even think that Dudley Moore probably had no success with women before he became famous. Or perhaps they want his money.
To Paddy: I've only been to Rio about four or five times and personally I haven't had any problems with crime. I think it's funny because I'm a black dude which actually helps me. Most guys in Brazil think I'm a broke Brazilian so they don't mess with me. But I think it's basically about using common sense. I've seen more crime here in America than I've seen in Brazil. And I mean on a first hand basis. I was raised in the "hood". I think the biggest targets in Rio are the "showoffs", whether you are black, white or whatever. Talking in English LOUDLY, wearing a lot of jewelry, acting a fool can probably get you messed up, but it's like one taxi driver told me: most Americans get messed up going to the favelas looking for drugs and that is something I can believe. Basically just stay in tourists areas and you should be o.k. It's like in L.A. they don't even put South Central on some maps; like it doesn't even exists. Basically their saying stay away from over there and in Rio it's the same thing.
As far as the language issue it is good to know basic Portuguese. I learned the first time I went, in which I didn't know how to say anything, that you do need to know the basics. It will make the trip a lot easier. Other than that I love Rio but I think that it has become to touristy and too popular as far as a sex destination to the point that time you talk to people about Rio people automatically think about p@ssy. The city has a lot sex but it's about more than that. I like it to the point that I would like to buy a condo there one day when my money is really tight because some parts are really upscale.
One thing about Rio is that the majority of the women are regular women who want a relationship. It's their hookers that have made the city famous. Most of their hookers LOVE what they do. I think it's almost kind of weird that on more than one occasion it felt like the girls were f@cking me and not the other way around. I felt like I should have been getting paid. I think it's also ironic that here in America sex is so scarce and in South America sex is so available. To me it's actually misbalanced. But then again it's not the difference in women it's the difference in cultures. Their have been studies conducted and books written on Brazilian sexuality. It's that serious down there. I went to Buenos Aires recently and it was the same thing and they're not even famous for sex, but I think basically it's a South American thing. That's the conclusion that I've come to. It's sad though that more guys don't get the opportunity to see it.
I've also have ran into the "I'm mad you travel and fuck women" type of woman. I've been trying to analyze it. The conclusion I've come to is that basically women have the upper hand here in the states and when they run into a man who is basically "above" their games it aggravates them. Also, a lot of women don't get the opportunity to travel and I think there is some jealousy there. It's the same animosity that a black man recieves when he is seen with a white women. Black women get pissed the f@ck off. I think it's funny how no black woman seems to recognize that obviously there is something you ain't doing that the white woman is doing. It's not that I'm advocating it (I love women of all races), I'm just saying: tell the TRUTH and recognize your own faults. Most American women that get mad about you traveling to meet women are very closed minded. All they know about is America. I mean if a American woman went to France and met her fiance to be I personally wouldn't give a f@ck. We live in a global community now.
With a lot of American women their game is similar to a con game: When someone cons you once, twice and three times for a particular product, he feels that he has you under his thumb. But when you find the truth out and you stop buying from the con man and you buy from someone legit, the con artist actually gets mad at YOU when he was conning you all the time. He has animosity toward you like you did something wrong. It's the same thing with American women and American culture. All this you must try to talk to a woman and you must really pursue her, you must offer to take her out, you must try to get her number, you must pick the lady up, take her to a restaurant of her choice, you must take somewhere nice and it can't be to cheap, you must not expect a kiss. You must treat her like a lady etc. is basically b@llshit. What I'm trying to say is that as a whole you see a lot fake behavior and a fake dating script in America where you have some women only going out with guys for a meal. Not even having a conversation on the date. Just eating the food and then they are ready to go home. It's this type situation that's pushing men to consider women in other countries.
But to get down to the simplest reason: when men travel to meet women in other countries it basically hurts American women's self esteem because in a nutshell you're saying I'm willing to travel 6000 miles and pay $6000 for a plane ticket to get a women in a foriegn country before I would spend time with you.
Until later guys. Peace.
Your right Phil on everything you mentioned. This is true also for guys that women reject or play for a free meal. I have been a victim of this American women farce for so long that my friend from capoeira class felt sorry for me and dragged me to get a passport and visa to go to Brazil just to prove that the real losers were the American women and not me. My first true girlfriend that didn't play me was a girl I dated in Brazil for 2 months during the time in which I graduated college and was looking for a job. This trip was funded by my father who also saw how I wasn't having a good time in New York and that I didn't have my first girlfriend here in the states. In fact my father paid a hooker to take away my virginity because American women fucked around with my self esteem. I was a short and obese dude back in those years but a gorgeous Brazilian chick named Rosengela accepted my invitation for a date. I was too broke to afford the prostitutes there and I was on a budget so I stuck with this gorgeous gret woman for the full 2 months. My friend also told me, "See, you're not a loser, it's the snobby attitude of the American women." Not only was Rosengela a great girl to hang out with, but she was great at sex. She didn't even mind that I had a little college pouch or that I was a bit shorter than her by 3 inches barefoot whereas, the women in America snickered at me for asking them out.
When I came back to the states, I lost interest in American women and that's when I started getting advances from them. I chose one of them, my ex-fiance, Nury, who acted all nice and looked her best when we first met but then she pulled the bate and switch thinking that since we got engaged, she could let herself go and act bitchy, her true form and self!! She also didn't put out until the 5th date whereas Rosengela put out on the first!! This is why foreign women are so much better than women in America.
BTW, I eventually lost the gut after years of capoeira training.
Very interesting discussion, although some people could say it's biased, because it is mostly conducted by men who have a prefrerence for paid sex. But I would say that in a normal country where prostitution is cheap and affordable, at least half the men engage in it. So this is a representative discussion.
The main reason why American women don't put out is because they are tired... after working in the law office downtown for ten hours. Often they have the best intentions, but I know women who are lonely and they want a boyfriend and all they can do after work is go home and have a drink and basically pass out. Generally, I think cerebral work makes men more horny, and women more frigid. Nietzsche already said that a woman who is intellectual has something wrong with her sexuality. But in America this can't be said because everyone agrees that women must be just like men professionally... even if they aren't suited for it. (This lack of discussion is like with car accidents. Do you know how many people die in car crashes every year? Do you ever see this number discussed anywhere? No. Car companies spend a lot of money on ads. Same with women's sexuality. There is no money in it. But there is a lot of money in professional women, who have more money than they know what to do with, especially when they are single and unhappy.)
American women also don't have sex readily because it gets snuffed out in college. There is this eros thing. If you sleep with a different guy every month, after four years of this you will just want to put out in our job. I knew many college girls who were sweet and feminine at the start of it and became bitches at the end, without any romance left. The Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom is the book to read here.
A perhaps contradictory reason why women are cold is because they are afraid that men are just after sex. I mean, the divorce statistics in this country are very high, and America encourages paranoia, not emotional security. There are very few social security blankets here. A woman is scared of being dumped, of being taken for a hoe or a ***** if she says yes easily. So she says no, and the guy is frustrated with her, and she feels that her suspicions were justified... a vicious circle.
You make some interesting point there, m_charles. I noticed that college women are do get a lot of sex because most colleges have more men than women. Take a look at the male to female ratio in every college application, For example, Harvard has 60% men 40% women, NYU has 52% men, 48% women, not to mention engineering schools like Polytechnic Institute of Technology- 88% men, 12% women. These women can even have 3 cocks at one time at a frat party. They also are spoiled with more choices, so spoiled that they can pick the top of the litter and leave behind the nerds and geeks like I used to be. After 4 years of readily available sex, they become jaded to it and they resent sexual advances because they are sick and tired of having sex. It is like drinking Coke every day for 4 years in college and eventually you get sick of the taste. In college, American men don't think of going steady and just want sex during the time they are in college and that is all the American women meet while they are in college. Don't get me wrong, but there were a few steady that come out of college that get married. This college experience feeds the paranoia that American men are just after sex.
American men AFTER college are more likely to look for companionship but they also want sex with it. American men do not get as much sex in college as American women do. Even the geekiest of women in college could get at least one sexual encounter during the 4 years. Some men don't get any for the entire 4 years, like myself because I used to be out of shape. I was 205 lbs at 5'4". I wasn't at all attractive like I am now after a year of hard exercising at the gym so I wasn't too popular in college or high school and I never lost my virginity until after college with the funding from my father who hooked me up with a prostitute then sent me to go to Brazil, where I hooked up with a Brazilian girl for 2 months, with my friend from capoeira class. My father knows he predicament us American men face because he used to be stationed in Thailand and the Phillipines where the women are much nicer. He knew I had problems meeting American women so he funded me to lose my virginity. He was also afraid that I might turn gay if I don't get any which does happen to American men. I thank my father for saving me from that.
I think that if the problem is what you say, m_charles, the best compromise or solution for the American men and women is to have an open relationship. I think that the American woman and man should have a companionship and at the same time to sexually satisfy the American man, he should be able to go overseas to have paid sex or short term relationships with the women overseas but could mention that he's married to a wife who approves of this. Unfortunatley, American women won't go for this and they want the man to themselves yet they don't want to sexually satisfy their men. This is an impossible and unrealistic situation for a man so that is why there are many divorces in America and that is due to the selfishness of American women.
AdleZ,
Yes, you're right about ignoring American women and beating them at their own game. As soon as you are indifferent towards them, they get real worried and take it as a personal challenge if you're not acting like a 'mongoose in heat' in their divine presence. I see it over and over.
Tired of sex and burned out in Thailand? Wow! Not many guys can say that. Good for you I guess. We American guys find that pretty hard to relate. I wonder what that must be like? Hmm....
Adlez, I wish I was in your situation where i have had so much sex I don't want it anymore. In Thailand, pussy is probably in front of your face all the time. In American, especially in new York where you see more men because NYC is geared towards the professionals which is male dominated, pussy is lacking here. And to make matters worse, the former mayor Guliani took away all the sex shops and porno video shops except for a few overpriced ones. But I do agree with you on a lot of your points and this worked for me in Europe and Brazil. Instead of desperately looking for sex, I sexually satisfy myself with prostitutes then I end up looking less desperate when I approach non-pro women and I get laid again. But prostitutes aren't available in America so that strategy dosen't work here. Perhaps your strategy would work very well in this situation. If I make myself scarce to American women, I might seem mysterious.
Wow, certainly some deep thoughts and interesting points. I would have to agree in that once you have been in the Thai scene (for me it happened on my second trip) sex after the first night arriving with all of the anticipation, it is just not that much fun anymore. And going a 3rd or 4th time in a night with the same girl can even begin to feel like work instead of pleasure as you just get to a point where you just want to finish as you grow bored.
However, it keeps bringing us back in for more especially as we are bombarded by the media in the States. I think it was in this board that someone compared sex to ice cream in that we crave it, enjoy it when we have it but like all things in excess, we can get tired of it. However that being said, we always like to go back and get ice cream in due time.
I guess in the end sex is like air, it's not a big deal unless you are not getting any!
WorldTraveller
01-02-03, 03:33
I must agree.......in a recent trip I was hitting everything I came across for the first several days, after awhile I got bored with it, it did become like work and was just not fun. I have to agree with the air statement as well......
To put it bluntly, in general, a good amount of American women look for two things, control and money. Just look at the shows on tv such as the Bachelor and the one with the construction worker posing as a millionaire. This is why American men look for foreign women. Foreign women have better attitudes, don't use sex as a weapon, and are more loyal to their man.
I don't have problems getting laid here in the States, but it is alot easier in other countries and you don't have to deal with the attitudes.
It's true Dogg, American women think they have us by the nuts by controlling us with sex. Then when they provide it to us they ask us, "What have you done for me lately?", like the Janet Jackson song. They expect something in return for sex as though they did us a favor. They also deny sex to those that can't seem to provide for them. Take that construction worker for example. If those women knew he only made $19,000 a year, they would not even look at him. They sign up for that show to win the chance to marry and divorce the "millionaire" and take half his estate once he grows old and out of shape. They aren't really interested in the guy. To the American women, he is just a love toy. The love that American women have for American men is fake and that is because their desire for money is greater than the love for the man. There should be no excuse for that in America because European or South American women are not like that.
Darkseid,
I agree with you completely. I also want to relate a humorous (or perhaps sad) story about my ex-American wife.
We had been married just a few weeks and during intercourse with her on top she exclaimed with a smile, "...I want four new chairs!" Now how's that for an American woman using sex as a control device or weapon??? As you can imagine, that was the shape of things to come.
Interestingly, last year a girl in Prague refused money from me after I took her out for dinner, a night on the town and a monster f*ck in my hotel room afterward. Hmm...
Darkseid, I guess that we were born on the wrong continent or something.
Paddy and Darkseid I'm glad to see we feel the same on the American women issue. You both are right on target. My ex-wife made be a believer in the American woman syndrome and I think that is why I will eventually hook up with a foreign woman.
We are born on the wrong continent, Paddy, and I wish I was born in Europe. America is great for making money but the sex sucks here. Even if you have a non-pro relationship, the sex is very mechanical and they always want something for it. American women are brainwashed by the media that sex is bad for them and dangerous. With this thought, they think they risk their lives having sex with the American man and they see it as a favor. Even if the American woman asks YOU for sex, they still expect to get anything they ask for in return.
European relationships have more passion and romance than American relationships and that is because of the greed of American women. In fact this is what drives a non-traveller to homosexuality. Yes, I have a straight turned gay friend who doesn't travel outside the US. He said that gay men have more passion than women and that women just want to have sex for money, favors or other material items. I corrected him and said it is AMERICAN WOMEN that are like that and that foreign women have sex for true love. Then I asked him if he ever dated a foregin woman and he responded that he didn't. I explained to him that he could have found passionate women if he travelled overseas and that he didn't have to turn gay. Being as pigheaded as he is, he still didn't get his passport to travel to Europe or South America and the American woman still convinces him that he is gay. Thank goodness I found foreign travel and didn't end up like that poor soul. Don't get me wrong, I am not against homosexuals, I respect their decision as I do my friend's choice but I wish he made a more educated decision and looked at the foreign women option instead of being driven to homosexuality by unpassionate American women.
You said Europe?
No any more, at least if you mean Western Europe, I can assure you.
Europe has been catching up with the US, always did. Sure, European are always a bit behind (like in not being too keen to bomb Iraq etc.), but there isn't one single shit the Americans invented since 1950 that soon wasn't wholeheartedly adopted by Europeans.
Europe is a fucking desert and will get increasingly so unless something drastic happens (don't ask me what).
You're right about Western Europe becoming more American than Eastern Europe, xxls and I would rather be in Eastern Europe like in the Pragues.
Hi Darkseid, Big Dogg, et.al.,
OK, we've definitively determined that American women are to be avoided and that women in Western Europe are not far behind. So, what countries are left???
I have had great success in the Czech Republic and Slovokia. Also, Edinburgh was great. What countries, cities, islands, etc., would you guys recommend where the women still look and act like women???
This could be very interesting. Looking forward to your recommendations. Thanks in advance.
I would say that hispanic women are pretty awesome. I went out with one and she loved to do all she could for me. It was very unusual at first and I had to get used to it. She took off though because of some family problems, too bad for me. Hispanic women are very family orientated and love to please their man, I guess this is my weakness when I see a latina.
Eastern Europe's days are counted!
Once Poland, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria and Romania become members of the European Union, these countries will be no more than an extension of the EU no-sex-zone. The Czech Republic lately was given to understand in no uncertain terms that it needed to "clean" its border with Germany before entering the EU. Indeed, brothels along the Czech-German border are already experiencing difficulties in recruiting girls from Russia and Ukraine, the Czech government having imposed severe visa restrictions on young women (no more visas for girls under 25).
Not long ago, camera-touting busy-bodies filmed a handful of Rumanian tarts plying their trade along a motorway on the outskirts of Paris. This was enough for public opinion to go on a rampage against the "evil of prostitution" and for newspapers to carry titles such as "Prostitute invasion from the East". Invasion my foot! You'd be hard put to find a decent prostitute anywhere in Paris these days. All the same, the French interior minister was sent on a special mission to Bucharest to impress upon the Rumanian authorities that it was their moral and political duty to keep their women in.
Al-Qaida may be weeks away from owning a Bomb for all we know but politics seems to have nothing higher on its rotten agenda than preventing men from having a decent poke now and again. It makes me puke!
Bigg Dogg, et.al.,
Yes, I have a thing for Latin women too. Had a thing once with a beautiful Mexican girl. Which specific Latin countires or cities would you recommend???
Also, I've read some good things about Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Does anybody know if there is a serious language barrier there? Can you get by with just English? Any other former Soviet states?
I've also read that Barcelona is great. Can you get by with just English there also?
Nominations for other cities or countries???
Barcelona is a great city in every sense of the word but there is not much English spoken outside the major hotels and so forth, and bear in mind that even Spanish is the second language there.
Having just spent a month living in Barcelona, I can attest to the availability of SWs, sex shows and brothels there. It is a fantastic city. Spanish IS a second language there but there are so many tourists and people from all over the globe that English is not a big problem. I speak Spanish reasonably well but couldnt understand a thing my first week there. It all works out. . .
Prices are very reasonable. Spent $900 to rent a furnished apt for 31 days. Food, entertainment and sex are all cheaper than the US. Try it.
-P
Latina women are awesome as long as you stay with them in their country and not bring them back. My ex-fiance was an awesome chick until she met a prude feminist who turned my ex-fiance to the ways of the American woman. If she stays here long enough she BECOMES one of the American women. My ex-fiance who was a cuban immigrant went from a girl who cooked and took care of me to a snobbish money grubbing ***** who always asked me for money every week and wrote down everything I spent fearing that if I spent too much, I can't buy her shoes or other items she wants out of my money. I knew that that American woman she hung out with was poisoning her mind with rotten ideas of the typical American women. She put on some pounds and stopped working out because the American woman usually don't exercise and they eat fast foods. She also started trying to make me work for the sex instead of giving it to me.
If you meet a great Latina chick, don't bring her here for a long time. It is okay for her to take a short trip to America but once she starts making American women friends, she will be assimilated and become one of the American women!! It is like the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"
Sinanju Master
01-06-03, 23:57
Darkseid, you reminded me of Eddie Murphy's last concert film 'Raw". In the concert, he depicts his (then) ideal woman: a woman from the African bush who is soooo far from "civilization" that she hasn't been poisoned by goose-stepping Feminazi's. Then he brings her to America and her friends begin the mental poisoning and his ideal woman starts to get ideas that make his life miserable. Chief among them is the addition to her vocabulary, the word: "HALF", as in 'We're married, I'm gonna squeeze you for HALF your assets AND cut off the sex". You should watch it! It's funny as hell, but even when it came out way back in '87, I paid great attention to the message he delivered. Oh yeah, he SPECIFICALLY says "American Women". Rent it out and enjoy!
Dick Johnson
01-07-03, 12:43
Guys, are American Women really that bad? Do they not want to f#ck after marriage?
A couple of friends say that they get it once in 2 months. I was surprised. I live in Calif. but have dated mostly Asian and Latina girls. And it's sex everyday. I dated a couple of caucasian chicks only briefly and it was sex for a few days and then we break up. I'd be darned if I marry someone and she'd give me sex twice a year. Or if she sticks out her palm and says : no money no honey baby!
It's not that the American chick is Caucasian, Europeans are more sexually liberated and also fuck every day like the Latinas and Asians born overseas. The Asian American and Latina American chicks or the ones that were poisoned by American chicks also are prudes and want half. It is the Puritanical mentality that rubs off on these chicks in America that makes them as bad as they are. And yes, they do want to cut off sex after marriage. They use sex as bait so they tempt you with cockteases until the fifth date, have the sex after the fifth date to make you think she is for real then when you get hooked with marriage and have half your assets at stake, she cuts off the sex and makes you pay for it. On top of that she gets fat so you could be repulsed of having sex with her.
Sinanjumaster, I was laughing and rolling when I saw Eddie Murphy's "Raw" because it is very true what Eddie Murphy says about Americanized women. And it does happen because of the friends they make here that corrupts their souls.
I would have to say that American women are that bad, especially when a guy gets spoiled by travelling to other countries and hooking up with the women there. I've learned my lessons after getting divorced and now I am the one in the drivers seat, it's either put out or get out. The way we men can get back control is to be in control.
What on earth is this thing about American women, then???
OK, they want as much money as they can get their hands on. Fair enough, that is the way with an Asian or Brazilian sex worker as well as the Harvard educated (male) business manager too.
But how do y'all explain the weird thing that they do not want sex for the fun, tickle or joy of it??? After all, that is why we exist as a human species on this planet - if normal girls were designed to dislike sex and only use it as a source of income (and otherwise disapprove of it) - humans would be extinct, and lizards would rule the world thereafter......
Short and sweet - do you really mean that in the land of the free US of A women are so degenerate they don't even desire sex for it's own rewards???
Sinanju Master
01-08-03, 00:09
Traveller, there ARE women who enjoy sex for its own reward, but also remember that there is ALWAYS in the back of said American woman's mind the ulterior motive (no matter how miniscule), be it money, control or what have you. American women are like a sexual OPEC. They have the power of the knowledge that men like sex and they make Machiavellian use of that knowledge. If she seemingly gives it freely, it is JUST THAT... it SEEMS she gives it freely, but she has an agenda and the "sexual favor" (DISPROPORTIONATELY returned on the man's part, I may add)will be called in later when you least expect it. However, unlike the United States, which has no alternative energy source, American men DO have an alternative source of QUALITY sexual gratification. Like my brehteren have suggested (Paddy, Dogg, etc) when American women hear of this alternative, its widespread use and satisfaction, they become infuriated that their power base has been discovered and in danger of eroding. Why settle for an inferior product (necrophilia-like sex with a woman who will later resemble the star attraction of Sea World) with lousy customer service (bad attitude) when a competitor offshore is willing to provide it with a warm smile and who revels in her femininity? I'm with Paddy, Dogg and the other former slaves who finally got fed up with their games. American women now have to tap dance to MY tune if they even want the time of day.
I think what we're all trying to figure out here is...
Why is it so HARD to find a woman (not a prostitute) that is just interested in sex for the fun of it, without any baggage or whatever?
The importance is to be in the SAME mindset. There's no guarantee that while you take her into that room expecting a good ol' time, she might not have other impressions brewing in her brain. Maybe you want sex, maybe she wants a relationship, maybe you want a BJ, maybe she wants to be told she's pretty, etc., on and on.
A sex worker, while the goings-on are fairly routine, you both know what the other wants. You want sex, she wants to have sex with you for money. There is no confusion.
A woman you pick up in a bar, whether in the USA, Canada, Mexico, Mars, or anywhere else in the Universe, might be thinking 'just sex', or she might be thinking 100 other goals, and even if she tells you directly, it might not be honesty, or she might not even know herself what she wants.
Bottom line...
When a woman inside your own local area decides to have sex with you "for free", it's probably because she likes the sex, or likes you, or both, or another goal you don't see. When a woman outside your area decides to have sex with you "for free", she might like the sex, like you, both, or she might have another hidden goal (marry him so he takes me to the USA, for example).
Both types of women have the same hormones running through their veins, the same thoughts, the same feelings. Some of them handle them better, some of them let their emotions rule them, and some of them try to use their "company" to gain something they want or need. It's all the same.
Traveller, the women of the USA ARE that degenerate. It is mainly because they are brainwashed by our Puritanical society that sex is harmful to them and that they should be compensated for having it. American women are so bombarded with messages of teen pregnancy, STDs, morality, etc. that they are afraid of having sex. Sure this is the "land of the free" but it is free AFTER this society puts MENTAL constraints on you. The men on the other hand are bombarded with images of sex. I notice that the men are more horny than women and have sex without fear of consequences. The American women wouldn't have sex even if there was no threat of unwanted pregnancy or disease. I know of a woman who had her tubes tied that doesn't even want to have protected sex. See, the threat of pregnancy and diseases are taken away and she still doesn't want to get laid. They would think sex is wrong just because of their religious beliefs and the way this puritanical society would view them as "sluts". There is more negative stigma towards women being promiscuous than men being promiscuous. I also notice that 100 times more men join the adult personals than women. I suppose American women fear sex and don't want to have it for it's own gratification because they want to be paid or pampered and they know that adult personals are there for people that just want to have sex.
The only reason Americans are still alive is that American men are willing to pay half their income and give into women's alterior motive for having sex. The woman gets paid by leeching off their husband and the man gets sex. And that is because the woman wears the pants in the family in this society. Being a person that rejects this part of American culture, I pay a small consequence of not getting any American dates and being called a "cheapskate" for not buying the American woman shoes every day of the week. If American men took back the reigns then perhaps American people would be extinct because there would be no suckers for the American women to exploit and take advantage of. The American man would go overseas and find their soulmates there if they knew of choices outside American women.
I agree a lot that our Puritanism is dwindling our population. In comparison with most other countries, we have the lowest birthrates. We have the most single child families on the face of this earth and that is because the American women don't like sex. South Americans, Asians, and even the Western Europeans have bigger families than we have here in America. They have wives that spend more money on their children than they spend on their jewelry and clothing. Yes, the overpopulation does make the country poorer because there are more mouths to feed but in the end, the US will dwindle in numbers with the single child homes because it takes 2 to make 1 child and this population will halve until it is no more. The only thing keeping the US alive are the immigrants that defect from other countries. But if they too adopt this prudelike no sex culture, they will also dwindle with the American population.
Originally posted by Dick Johnson
Guys, are American Women really that bad? Do they not want to f#ck after marriage?
A couple of friends say that they get it once in 2 months. I was surprised. I live in Calif. but have dated mostly Asian and Latina girls. And it's sex everyday. I dated a couple of caucasian chicks only briefly and it was sex for a few days and then we break up. I'd be darned if I marry someone and she'd give me sex twice a year. Or if she sticks out her palm and says : no money no honey baby!
Dick, I have married friends who tell me they don{t get it at all any more and haven{t gotten it in YEARS. I shit you not. DH
darkseid,
i was a bit worried that someone would confirm all my worst thoughts about american double standards etc. as far as sex is concerned - and of course you did.
in europe, i do not think people conciously recognise the size of the atlantic :-) the mainstream complaints from women's organisations here regarding paid sex is the "poor girls who suffer this degrading occupation" stuff - not the "hey, they are taking away our cash providers".......
euro girls also suffer a bit from the syndrome that separates men from women when it comes to the "reputation" earned by having one-night stands - but it does not keep them from it, neither do they really think that having sex is "bad" in any way.....
and, of course another complaint is about us guys who want 20-year olds (who are more or less 30 years younger than ourselves) - and in that case of course money issues are in - one way or the other (why do you think the young secretaries screw the bosses) - but otherwise? sex is mainly for fun and pleasure....
there are of course exceptions to rules - i guess you can find bunches of "american" women in euroland, and happy fuckers in the us - but it appears this is not the main rule.
but in general it is not surprising. europe has an old world history, where all of the silly stuff has been tried out, ridiculed and laid dead by anything from the pope (lots of his predecessors screwed themselves to insanity with bunches of **** girls in the medeival ages) via the inquisition (if you were not a favoured member of the clergy, you had no business in screwing around, and should thus be tortured and burned alive), to the more loose modern times starting early 1900's.
and not to forget a certain german ruler in the 30's who was fascinated by the idea of "war as an extention of politics with other means" (a clausewitz quote, i think) - and who also adopted the divinity as his protector and alibi for these thoughts ("gott mit uns") - and thus created a world war.
no pun intended (i think) but the people of a great country like the us should be worried about having a chief executive who apparently has adopted the worst of all historical baggage - not only the bias against sex, double standards and all, but even the thought that politics are best handled by war and "in god we trust????" all while his daughters have an "illegal" drink or five and probably screw for pure pleasure only (hey- don't do as we do - do as we tell you - the saying of people in power for about 50,000 years i guess......)
Originally posted by Bigg Dogg
I would have to say that American women are that bad, especially when a guy gets spoiled by travelling to other countries and hooking up with the women there. I've learned my lessons after getting divorced and now I am the one in the drivers seat, it's either put out or get out. The way we men can get back control is to be in control.
Damn Skippy Bigg Dogg!!....There is ALWAYS an alternitive
BootyLover
01-09-03, 05:49
I'm glad to see that more and more of you guys are aware of the situation: bad shape and less than average women thinking that they are in control of the slaves (men). The best way to destroy this mentality:
1) let them know (the more the better) the physical characteristic your are looking in women. Since they generally don't fit it they'll get pissed off
2) let them know that beyond 27 years you are not that attracted to them. This will make chicks in their thirties easier and more cooperative
3) let them know that you'd rather go to a SW instead of paying top buck for a so-called regular girl. Based on the concept of fuck cost per unit, explain that you calculate how much it's costs to nail a girl and you compare it to the SW cost.
Regular girl= Fixed costs (shopping, dining,dancing, etc) + variables costs (gas, condoms, time, accomodations, etc)
SW= Variable costs (gas, condoms, time, accomodations, fear,etc.)
Let them know that you try to get the most bang for your buck
Bootylover you are right on target, especially the economic considerations. If we are getting taken care of, we wouldn't be looking for action everywhere we go, especially if they think they have Fort Knox between their legs, oh well. I would agree that our puritanical society significantly effects the sexual education of America.
American women always think they have a choice over the guys that present themselves to them. Even the overweight women think the same way. As a result, they damage the esteem of poor guys who never travelled outside the US. Most of the low self esteem guy get turned down by these overweight women as well. They are not looking for a girl who is slim and 30 years younger but they just want a companion. I agree totally with you guys that they think what's between their legs is gold. I fell into their scam before I went to my first trip to Brazil. I thought women were unobtainable being that I was only 5'4" and overweight (205 lbs) back in college and high school. I was unable to lose my virginity without the service of an overpriced escort my father hired. But Brazil taught me that even a guy with such bad stats as I had back then could get a girl if he has a good heart. The good heart thing doesn't work in America though but it does work in other countries because the women overseas appreciate a man that takes care of them. I also had my first sexual experience with a non-pro in Brazil. Not to mention, the American women are Racist and are taught that way by their parents. The first question that comes to mind is if the boyfriend is of the same race and if the AW says he is different, she always gets a nod of disapproval or even worse, an argument or an exile from home. I was never able to date a girl of another culture here in America. Even the people of other races is taught racism and to stay within their own groups. This bitterness towards the mainstream American society makes the minority group racist as well.
BootyLover, I agree that American men spoil American women too much. Even the overweight women think they have a pick of men. They have men grovelling all over them then they pick the "best" one of the bunch that fit THEIR description of what they want. Us men in America don't have a choice of our women in America because the ones we do want never say 'yes' no matter how much you try to earn their respect. This is true espescially for men that get rejected all the time like my old self. Now that I discovered foreign women, the American women wonder why I am not asking them out. They hate the fact that they can't toy with me like they toy with the other American men so they get frustrated. Some even think that I am gay but I explain to them that I prefer women that I meet overseas. I also ask if they would have went out with me anyway and they responded they wouldn't. I then told them that it is none of their business and they have no right to try to toy with me that way. I also said that I should be free to date foreign women if I can't get a date here in America. They then knew I was right and left me alone. I guess it's better that way because who would date bitches like that anyway.
Sinanju Master
01-09-03, 23:52
Darkseid, I can relate to some of your experiences. Growing up, the parental units taught me to treat women with respect and good things will follow. I don't wanna trash their view of the world, but they couldn't have been MORE WRONG! I'd treat prospective women as a social and intellectual equal, but all I got were either the sight of their backs, or the eternal bullshit line: "I just want to be friends", or some other whopper of a lie. Couple THIS with the fact that many of my female friends and acquaintances whom at one time or another I had a thing for, would end up being used like a roll of Charmin by some smooth-talking dude and they'd come running to ME to bend my ear and lean on my shoulder to tell me how men are pigs and that they wish they could find a guy like me! Gimme a BREAK! Back then, I wasn't equipped with hip-waders to deal with the bullshit they'd feed me. Nowadays when I hear such drivel, I smile and pretty much tell them that they made their own sty, now they have to sleep in the shit. They claim to want a sane, quality guy, but end up chasing that which will make them bitter REAL QUICK! They say that women are the more intelligent of the species, but American women have proven this wrong time and again.
Hi Guys,
Many excellent and compelling thoughts have been posted the last few days. American women are truly a trip to oblivion. Therefore, we need to start generating possible solutions and alternative plans for ourselves. Darkseid is already doing this.
Some of us have opted to become sexual adventures flying overseas to meet "real" women. I was in Scotland in early December, for example, and was cavorting around the legendary saunas of Edinburgh. BBBJ, CIM, etc., is standard there. Amazing! I think that we need to start listing cities, countries, etc., where our needs can be met.
Also, what about travel agencies, airlines, websites, etc., to help us in this area??? For example, I have read on the WSG that there is an actual travel agency in Costa Rica that caters to sexual adveturers and sets you up in a resort there. Many of you are also familar with the legendary ******* who organizes things in the Dominican Republic for us.
Guys, American women are not going to change in our lifetimes. This is a reality of life and we need to begin to generate viable solutions for ourselves. American women have made us miserable for long enough!
sinanjumaster, it looks like we were the victims of being the shrinks for these american women. we treat american women with respect and they treat the ones that abuse them better than they treat us. then they come running back to us for a shrink session on how their abusive 6 foot tall boyfriend abuses them. i heard all types of these stories and made so many "friends" that i got tired of it because i wasn't getting any for it. not to mention the dry cleaning bill from letting them cry on my shoulder. i even told them that unless i am getting some myself, the shrink is out. they got offended when i said that. in fact they wouldn't even hook me up with their friends. it's as though they don't want me to get laid and that they want to keep me unlaid so they can tease me with the "hope" of getting laid. they accuse me of being the sexual predator because they thought i was being nice to get into their pants. then they deny me sex when i am being nice to them and they give it up to their abusive boyfriends. or perhaps they think, with their puritanical ideas, that sex makes men pigs and that a guy that doesn't get any would be more sensitive. they can't be more wrong than that! a guy that doesn't get any becomes really bitter to the point they go "postal" (excuse the cliche). i had enough of it and started acting calloused towards them after i started travelling and getting some overseas. i stopped asking american women out altogether and they wonder why.
paddy, i agree with you 100 percent american women are the trip to oblivion. they don't give their husbands a good life and they are money grubbing prudes. foreign women are the real women. they don't play the shrink-patient game with me either and they go for the nice guys instead of abusing the nice ones and going for the abusive ones. i score so much more overseas being nice than i do here in america. american women seem to have their heads on backwards.
i am planning to leave america after getting enough work experience so i can find myself a wife overseas. don't get me wrong, i love america but its women need to get their head on straight and the ones that migrate here need to stay the way they were before coming here instead of letting the friends they make here peer pressure them into becoming another "american woman". i just don't have chemistry with any of the women here in america. if it wasn't for my first girlfriend in brazil and foreign women, i probably would have ended up homosexual like my friend who thinks all women are like american women. but luckily, i discovered the alternative- foreign women.
Dick Johnson
01-10-03, 21:55
I have met some overweight American women who are oblivious to the fact that they fat.
..girl, see those white love handles? That's just lard, honey..
Dick Johnson,
Yes, I've noticed the same "phenomenon" of fat American women who genuinely do not view themselves as being fat. These fat chicks also smoke like chimneys. A woman told me once that they think that if they smoke they will not gain or perhaps lose weight. Hmm...
If you want a good laugh, get on match.com. I have seen countless numbers of huge women on that site (you know, the kind that are the size of a Volkswagen) and they classify themselves as having "a few extra pounds." You should see the size of these women. Wow, talk about distortions of reality!
Yeah, Darkseid, we gotta get out of this place. I'm already scoping out possible retirement sites. I guess that my requirements are sensual women and a decent exchange rate. Warm weather and enough English spoken there until I can get passable or fluent in the native language would be my next requirements. Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks.
BootyLover
01-11-03, 02:15
There's something you should understand time plays aginst women everywhere; it's nature law. For instance, their sexual drive die around mid fifties, as they grow older they become weaker compared to men, etc. They do need a male companionship to live longer than men, otherwise they would have to work as hard. (That's why in India men live longer than women, women are the ones who must work hard)
Stop complaining in the closet (i-e on this website), make sure that your friends men or women know how aware you are and where to look for alternative.
The more you spread the word (way of thinking) the quicker women will lose their monopoly. Don't be shy! Be affirmative!let's reverse the situation to a natural way! SPEAK UP! LOUD!
The more women will hear about the new thinking, the more insecure (and cooperative) they will be. STAND UP! SPEAK UP!
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