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06-09-03, 05:24
Please select "Add New Report" to start this section.

06-09-03, 09:25
Thanks Jackson


I haven't done a Visa Run myself, but maybe you can find some info here:



And if you give Google the string 'visa run' (and if you like: add 'Thailand') you'll find a lot of tips and stories.

06-09-03, 17:25

Could any of you who have moved to LOS tell me a little bit about your experiences?

Any info appreciated ...


06-10-03, 02:28
Thanks, checking the sites out as i write. I moved here 3.5yrs ago, many experiences, which particular ones are you interested in :-) !!

06-10-03, 11:37
I am interested in everything I guess - but the most important things in the beginning probably is monthly budget, local bank issues, if I should rent a studio/flat or stay in a cheap hotel, dental/medical stuff, healt insurance etc. (?)

I don't expect anybody to give a complete handbook - I just thought it could be useful to have a thread here for more 'practical' issues than TG's - and many of the posts here are from people who say theyare staying in LOS.

By the way - there's a lot of stuff on the web - so I will not be disappointed if the boards members prefers to write about TG's instead of the price of new reading glasses :D

06-11-03, 02:49
I think this is Joe_Zop or Freeler terrirtory as they seem to know everything about LOS but i'll add basics.
Western style apartments with min facilities of swimming pool, security and reception start from 8,000baht and go up to very high prices depending on location and level of luxury.
Normally it is standard to pay 2 months rent as deposit and 1 months rent in advance. Contracts usually have to be signed, normally 12 mths but you can find 6mths. Now i'm talking about longer term living here, there are apartments, and many of them that will let you stay 1 mth, Boss Tower on RamaIV but its location is crap, i'm sure there are others.
Hotels, for more than a month i think an apartment deal would work out cheaper, but then you have to think about room service, maid service, laundry, maybe stuff like bedding, all stuff a hotel makes very easy for you.
Health insurance and all that kind of stuff drop me an e-mail meatywsg@hotmail.com i say that because as all longtimers in LOS know, the insurance/financial services scene for expats here is saturated there are a lot of cowboys out there especially as the whole industry is unregulated. I have some people i have used for a long time and am more than happy, i will give you there details and then its upto you. But i'm not posting them on a sex board!!! i don't think they would be too happy if they found out!!
Local bank, any of the thai banks will issue anyone a savings account with an ATM card, costs vary but 500baht will be enough to open the account, get your card and have a small balance. Just go into any of them with your passport and you walk out 30 minutes later with a bank. For current accounts you MUST have a valid work permit, no exceptions (if there are let me know). but if you have a work permit your better going to citibank, or HSBC.
I need to get some work done, i'll think up some more stuff and come back later!

Joe Zop
06-11-03, 04:18
ah, meaty, i defer -- i'm not living in los as you are, and as philo is looking to be. there are things i know about, and i researched a bunch about things related to this when i was planning my longish trip, but living long-term in thailand isn't something i'm at all expert on, and i look forward to learning a great deal from this thread. i hope folks like samus will pipe in on some of the specifics here as well, as this thread can be valuable even for those of us who look to come over for less than forever.

and i bow scrapingly low to freeler's encyclopedic knowledge.

06-11-03, 05:34
Meaty, Joe_zop,

Don't worry, I will not attempt to make a mark in this thread:).
LT in the same place is not for me. I travel!
BUT: The point Meaty makes on HealthInsurance is a bit too important to just let pass. I've seen a few too many expats end their lives in miserable fashion because they didn't have HealthInsurance.

06-15-03, 06:13
Thanks Meaty

I will email you later (only have a full name adress now...)

Went to look at two appt's yesterday: one in soi 12 (2 bedrooms, B 14000) and a studio in soi 71 (condo with bargirls, thai families and a few farangs, B3300 (with aircon !, bargirl from Morning Night bar took me there)).

I think it will be best for me to start with a hotel. By now I have found good rooms at B10000 mnth in CM and B12000 in Patong, but I haven't found anything in BKK yet.

Anyway-thanks. Will send email later.

06-23-03, 14:38

Perhaps you can start a business picking up newbies from the airport (until it moves, that is) and make a pre-selection:
Dorks to Pattaya, half-wits go to Sukhumvit and people who at least appear to have travel insurance and a map, straight to Korat or Pilok!

When can you start?

PS Welcome to BKK!

Cooter Hunter
06-28-03, 21:39

You certainly have a lot of info on living in Thailand, I've lived and worked in Japan for 4 years, I have been back in the states for 2 years now, and I have to been wanting to move back abroad, I have been to Thailand on several occasions, and I am considering making it my home, I would reall appreciate if you could backchannel me at daedalus_27@yahoo.com I have many questions about living, working etc... Again, any assistance would be greatly apprieciated.


Joe Zop
06-28-03, 22:04
wlc142 -- why not post the questions here so some of the rest of the folks on the board can benefit?

SA, I heartily agree. There are plenty of good reasons to decide to move to Thailand -- work, climate and geography, economics, culture, etc., and certainly the sex scene is a nice bonus -- but if the only motivation is cheap sex workers you gotta check your connection to good sense.

06-29-03, 03:08
I'll be moving to LOS in about a year and a half but I'll be married and living on about $650 a month Social Security. I know I'll miss some amenities but on my pension I'd be alone in a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)-in-the-sink hotel here, eating at the free meals. I'd miss all the amenities right in the middle of them. I'm interested in the ESL Teaching possibilities. I know that I can get the certificate with some minimal online training for about $300 now, while I have the money coming in. Is this a workable idea. What about jobs, work permits, etc. I know they only pay about Ŗ300 an hour but that would be great above my pension.

07-01-03, 10:23
Thanks for your info SA...

But please understand that not everybody is dreaming about a happy (sic) american middle class Disney-inspired life....

I'll rather live in one of the unfinished highrisers in BKK.

In pacem....

07-01-03, 15:45
Wandered onto this thread and thought I would put in my two cents.....

Lived in LOS for 10 years plus until 1995 when I moved up to China. Some guys like myself are addicted to mongering. If this is the case, you will never get bored with the action in Thailand. Yes, you may cut down the frequency a bit after awhile, but I did not stop for the 10 years, and still go back for more as often as possible.

On the other hand, if you want to live there permanently, there are other cultural & language adjustments that must be made. The girls cannot keep you occupied all the time. It is nothing at all like living in the USA. Yes, the outskirts' communities are nice, but traffic is still a problem in Bangkok, especially during certain times of day.

I agree with SA on one very important point. If you don't have a job or money enough to do it right, don't do it at all.

Just my POV.....


07-03-03, 06:29
Samus Aran,

I read about the Blue Cross and Blue Shield policy you mentioned. How much does that cost? Iíd appreciate that information. I am not making any rash move to LOS (or Eastern Europe for that matter) but I am trying to plan out a strategy to live abroad. Insurance is one thing I have no data on.


How much money is enough to do it right in Thailand? Iíve read a lot on the matter and I think it depends on the person. There is a website I found that compared three lifestyles. Well, the comparison was how much each person spent a month in Bangkok, not how much they make. The first needs about 26K Baht, the second 34K, and the third 47K. Are these reasonable numbers? Which one is the closest you think to being able to do it right? For me I pick the 47K but that is probably out of a desire for security. What would you say? Higher? Lower? How much is enough to do it right? Thanks in advance.

By the way, anyone else feel free to comment on this. I know that a lot of you guys have a lot of really good information in your heads. Thanks in advance to all posters.

Okay, I am going to write one more post tonight. Iím not sure what Thai board it applies to. It could be fit in the Bangkok board, this board, or the Thai women and advice board.


07-03-03, 07:46
Hello all fellow mongers and TG aficionados. Has anyone ever gone to Bangkok to stay with one girl at her place before? I never have but that is exactly what I am about to do on July 21st, this 2000 and three.

I was in Thailand back in April (my 3rd trip... newbie here) and I had some amazing experiences as probably anyone did that went there or lived there at that time. One of the girls I met is still in my mind. What can I say? I have become attached to her. I met her on ICQ before my trip. I already had my tickets and was looking forward to a week of bliss in the mongering scene. I ended up meeting her at Siam Center at Starbucks one night. We had dinner, went to the Hard Rock afterwards to buy my sister a T-shirt, and then took a cab to Khaosan Rd.

After two hours of drinking she asked me if I would take her to my hotel where we could talk in quiet. I agreed. We had sex that night and spent the next three days together. I canít say I really liked her that much after the three days but later, I started to like her a lot. Sheís never asked me for money and Iíve never given her any. But I have to say Iíve been spending about $150 to $200 a month talking to her on the phone. She has near perfect English. She understands all those crazy poems I was posting on here after my last trip. I quit posting them on here but I still send them to her and the 196 girls in my email list. Itís my hobby or MO, so to speak. :)

Hmmm. She has quite an Internet following as well, many fans. She was telling me how some fan sent her a bunch of books by a famous female British author the other day. Iím pretty sure she may have slipped the snake for money before but sheís never asked me for a monetary contribution. Though sometimes when I call her, she canít talk, you know, wonít tell me anything like I love you or I miss you. The last time this happened I just said, ďHey, is this a bad time?Ē She told me yes and I said no problem, just call me on a good time. She called the next day and told me I was cool for having the attitude I had when she couldnít talk. I said no problem.

She says, ďcall anytime you want,Ē and most of the time itís cool but... Maybe four times in three months she has had that; ďI canít say anything,Ē attitude. To me that means there is a boyfriend or a client. I canít really complain. Itís not like I havenít been to Mexico or an AMP or a strip club since I left her in Thailand.

It looks like my next residence will be somewhere near Soi 70 and Sukhumvit. Maybe I should post this in the Bangkok Hotel section. Hell, I canít figure out where to post this thing! 1) Post it in the Bangkok section. Itís where Iím going to be. 2) Post it in the Living in Thailand section. I know Iíll be staying in a Bangkok apartment with fans only. The Internet is 20 Baht per hour in this neighborhood, etc. I hope I can cope with no Aircon. 3) Post it in the Thai Women - Opinion & Advice section. What the hell am I getting myself into?

Personally I think this belongs in number 2 and number 3 the most, because i will be living in Thailand with a Thai girl, if only for a week. On the other hand I think it belongs in the Bangkok section. Anyone that spends too much time here will end up like me. :)

But I wonít know till I get there and Iím going! What else is there to say? Amazing Thailand? Land of Smiles? Tropical Fever? White boy in trouble? Who knows! It sounds like a reality TV show. Can he go to Thailand and only poke one hole? Will he poke at all? Or will he get poked? Tune in at channel five on prime time Wednesday to find out...

Jaimito Cartero
07-03-03, 07:54
If you didn't have that good of a time with her the first time, why spend so much money communicating with her? I know that a perfect woman is a very different thing for every guy out there. Perhaps she was like a fungus, and was slow growing on you. :)

I think that the ones that you give NO money to are the most dangerous.

I wish you luck, and let us know how it works out.

07-03-03, 08:18
Jaimito Cartero,

That's two good points. I can't explain the first one. That kind of stuff is somewhere in the stars. I dunno. She writes and speaks the same "look at the sky and flick the cigarette ash with the eye of sorrow" stuff that i do. But the second point... Yeah, that's scary. And maybe dangerous too. If I survive I'll let you know. I figure I will survive so there will be some kind of trip report about this on here. The ones that ask for money are a known quantity. It's like there is a primordial understanding. The ones that don't ask are the ones where anything might happen. Ah, s h i t! I think these two points are really one and the same. lol. :)

Dick Johnson
07-03-03, 09:06
Remember awhile back when Posterlion said Dick Johnson is keeping a secret that is tearing him up inside? I have no problem keeping secrets esp other people's secret. Posterlion just announced his big secret which he told me not to tell anyone lol:)!
Just be careful, P. JC said it, the one you gave no money to are the most dangerous.

SA ought to be reinstated as regular member since he is one of the most useful members on the Thailand board now, if Jackson is listening.


07-04-03, 01:21
Wait till SA reads what you intend to do! Haha....He'll go nuts! Anyways, I wish you luck but heed this advice for what its worth. Moving to Thailand to be with one girl who in your own words:
"She has quite an Internet following as well, many fans. She was telling me how some fan sent her a bunch of books by a famous female British author the other day. Iím pretty sure she may have slipped the snake for money before but sheís never asked me for a monetary contribution. Though sometimes when I call her, she canít talk, you know, wonít tell me anything like I love you or I miss you. The last time this happened I just said, ďHey, is this a bad time?Ē She told me yes and I said no problem, just call me on a good time.""
Careful here ok? Personally, I think you're setting yourself up for a fall. What happens when you go there, set up camp and she starts to do this stuff with you in BKK? You're gonna get upset of course, and this will lead to a "broken heart" (As the Thais are fond of saying). No-one needs to be heartbroken esp. if the signs were there flashing in front of you.....
Really, I do hope it works for you. Just be careful and have a carefree attitude towards the whole thing because it seems like she does too! Don't get too serious too fast! And let us know how it ends up. Happy trails!

07-04-03, 07:26
Originally posted by PosterLion
.....I read about the Blue Cross and Blue Shield policy you mentioned. How much does that cost? Iíd appreciate that information. I am not making any rash move to LOS (or Eastern Europe for that matter) but I am trying to plan out a strategy to live abroad. Insurance is one thing I have no data on. .....

According to their advertisments in Bangkok Post / The Nation you have coverage in the Baht million size order for about B 40 a day. Please see


If you give Google the string 'blue cross thailand insurance' you'll get a lot of second part info too.

7 of 10 expats I have talked to use this insurance.

07-04-03, 07:46
Good Luck Posterlion

The area goes by the name Phra Khanong (girls say 'Pakkanoo') and have a BTS station with the same name. 90 % of the Nana girls live there.

I myself have now stayed 10 days+ with a girl in her room in the soi 2 off Sukhuvit Soi 71. Good experience. You'll will easily spot and can have a chat with a quite a few falang that lives there.

Dick Johnson
07-04-03, 10:40
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chikan
"Wait till SA reads what you intend to do! Haha....He'll go nuts!"

Let SA talk some sense into what might be deaf ears lol.

"She has quite an Internet following as well, many fans."

Watch out Posterlion:). Don't get your heart broken.


07-07-03, 02:55
Thanx SA.
I'll check out Korat. I agree that Pattaya is NOT the place. P is great for a party visit for the first trip. I am not looking to be surrounded by hookers any more. Yes, I got caught. She's not a young hooker but a 38 year old maid. She went to Pattaya for work in a bar but that got shortstopped by me and her own scruples so now she works at a grade school. September will be my 3rd trip now. Unfortunately my degree is in Studio Arts. I saw a diploma mill online that gives the ESL Certificate with some online training for $300. I don't have a teaching certificate of any type. I'm a certified Drug and Alcohol Counselor now. My pension will be around $600 a month or Ŗ25,000. Almost anything I can earn will be gravy.

Joe Zop
07-07-03, 04:26
Amen, SA -- the last thing I'd ever want to be is one of the ex-pats who I see each trip to LOS, hanging around the Biergarten day after day working their way through the girls there one by one. Or to be one of the guys in Chiang Mai who bitched me out for "hogging" the girl I was with cause he wanted to boink her before his fellows, so he could claim honors. Sheesh. Most look emaciated and just plain dismal. Gotta be more to life than that.

Najene, when I was on a bus from Mai Sai to Chiang Rai I met a fellow, also a retiree from the Bay area, who had been living in LOS for a year, quite happily and comfortably, on only slightly more than the income you describe -- I believe he said his monthly pension and Social Security worked out to around Ŗ35000, so it can be done. He said he usually gave a bunch of baht away each month because he had extra. 'Course, he only had his mouth to feed -- not his, his woman's, and his woman's family...

PosterLion, good luck, truly and sincerely, as I think you're going to need it -- I'm all for following dreams, but you gotta know when you're awake and when you're asleep. I just don't see how your equation is going to work -- finding someone who professes to like and understand your poetry isn't much on which to base a relationship. You honestly give every symptom of someone cruising for a heavy emotional and financial bruising.

07-07-03, 15:07
Posterlion, Najene You will find a lot of info on living costs, working issues and other expat-realted stuff in these links:


(ajarn.com is the main site for open teaching positions)





07-09-03, 18:23
I would also like to add a given for living overseas. Learn the language!

I can't tell you how many expats I've met who after living in the LOS for years have accumulated a vocabulary of 50 words in Thai. Mostly bar-girl talk. Their whole existence seems to revolve around drinking, Washington Square, drinking and forays into Soi Cowboy/NEP. I visited one guy's room. Filled with empty hard liquor bottles and smelled. To me this is not living. Just waiting to die.

Many people's vision of Thailand is skewed because of the small areas they are familiar with. There's so much more to it than that.

If you can speak the language and get around a bit, you will see there is so much more to it than that.

The other mistake I see a lot of guys getting into is falling for a BG. My God, one guy I know has been there less than a month and already has a BG moving in with him! You'll find it's much easier to get them in than to move them out.

My next trip there, I am going traveling with a cutie I've known now for two years. She works for a cell phone agency and is a 'good girl'. The main reason I've held off is that I don't want to get into another long-distance relationship. I can tell you from experience that being with a 'regular' Thai girl, while it is not headache free, is better than having one with a bg. I was with one here in the states for two years and other than her fucking racist Chinese family, we got along just fine. I didn't have to worry about her being a part of a sexual rotisserie with fourteen guys on her call list. The sex, while crucial and incredible was just one small part of it. A microcosm of what Thailand can be if you take the time and effort to find it. Just my experience and my opinion.

I do like the bars, go-go's etc. It's a blast that to me still has allure after 12 years of frequent travel to Thailand. To me it's all about balance and keeping the proper perspective.

My personal plan is to remain in the states for about the next 5-10 years, paying off debt, then I will be in a financial position to move there part-time while still making a good income over here. Even now I travel about 3 months of the year and it's great having my sanctuary here in the states.

When I move, I don't know about living on the outskirts of the city, even though it is undoubtedly cheaper. I have a few friends that rent a house, and while expensive is close to many things given it's location to the skytrain. I do agree that if you are lowering your standard of living to make the move something is wrong.

08-10-03, 16:35

My six week Tour of Duty kept me away from this page...

Teaching English in Thailand sucks bigtime. There are very few good positions, these are only found at major universities.

In the six months I've been away from the Kingdom two people I knew died. Probably because that is the easiest thing to do in the Kingdom. Death is not a taboo in Thailand, it's the most accepted thing you can think of.

If, that is IF, I would chose to live in the Kingdom, I would find myself a home near the sea. Even in the rainy season in can be incredibly hot inland, as I found out during this last trip.

I totally agree with Poobah. I also travel 3 months every year and my European sanctuary is something I won't give up easily.

Also: There are many BAD sites on Thailand, but the WORST is Stickmans stupid expat site. Stickman is a fool.

Look at mags like 'Farang, you, you, you' and others and find out that 90% of expats hate Thailand. Probably they can't go home: No money to live in the West, big debts at home.
I would almost ask Mr. Thaksin to throw all these bastards out. He already raised visa fees. GOOD!

The expats who are doing well travelled a lot in the past, lived abroad a lot and have their finances sorted out.
Indeed, B40000/month is plenty to live on, but you have to be absolutely sure you do get it every month. Or you go down the drain, with the rest of 'em.

Come to Thailand and enjoy!

08-10-03, 16:38
Here's the article on Visa fees as published by the PattayaMail, last week:

"Immigration service prices nearly quadrupling

Chief of Immigration Police Pol. Col. Somsak Senaweenin told Pattaya Mail this week that yes, it is true, fees for visas, visa extensions, re-entry permits, resident permits, in fact all immigration services will be going up significantly on August 26 (2003, F.).

The application fee for a visa extension, for example, will nearly quadruple, going from the current 500 baht charge up to 1,900 baht. Although the increase at this level is not insignificant, the nearly quadrupling of immigration service fees escalates as the length of stay increases, and will hit especially hard people applying for resident permits. The fee to submit a resident permit application, currently 2,000 baht, will rise to 7,600 baht, and the fee for receiving a residence permit book will go from 50,000 to 191,400 baht.
Immigration Chief Pol. Col. Somsak Senaweenin announced that immigration service fees will be nearly quadrupling on August 26.

The increases are a result of a new Ministry of Interior regulation, signed by Interior Minister Wan Muhamad Nor Matha.

Immigration services most commonly used by foreign visitors and residents will be provided under the following price structure: Single entry transit visa 800 baht, single entry tourist visa 1,000 baht, single entry non-immigrant visa 2,000 baht, multiple entry non-immigrant visa (for use within one year) 5,000 baht, application for visa extension 1,900 baht, application for a single re-entry permit 1,000 baht, application for a multiple re-entry permit 3,800 baht, application for a residence permit 7,600 baht, approval of a residence permit (payable on receipt of residence book) 191,400 baht, approval of a residence permit (payable on receipt of residence book) for a foreigner married to a Thai, the spouse of a resident, and any of their children who have not reached the status of a Thai juristic person (i.e., unmarried children aged below 20 years) 95,700 baht."

08-16-03, 20:09
Originally posted by Freeler ........... Also: There are many BAD sites on Thailand, but the WORST is Stickmans stupid expat site. Stickman is a fool.........

You may think whatever you want about the site (that agreeingly is getting more and more commercial), but only a fool can deny that his (about 180 pages) 'Expat living in Bangkok' (see link below) contains a lot of verifiable info and useful observations .......

08-25-03, 07:00
Yes many farangs hate Thailand because they dont understand it. They dont speak Thai, they think everything should be like USA or UK. If you choose to live in Thailand study the place, its history, buddishm, the language. Before I decided to live here I did a three year Uni course in Asian Studies majoring in the Thai Language. Even if you have a lot of cash not understanding the place is a real loss. I live up country and my "holidays" are to Pattaya and Bangkok for some mongering....not everyday of the week. I live comfortably on 25000 baht a month and earn 60000 baht a month. Life is good and relaxed. I will never return to the west. If you dont like living in Thailand it is because you expected to come and party and be a king. That gets boring after a while...trust me. Do NOT decided to live in Thaialnd until you spend at least 6 months straight here and try to live on a budget...not holiday money. Also see something other than Bangkok...Even living one hour out of Bangkok will save you 15000 baht a month.

Cheers All

08-25-03, 08:35

Excellent post. If you don't mind, would you tell me what line of work you do in Thailand? I share your view points entirely, however, being able to be a King for a week here and there, is not bad either. Wow, the pussy i would have if i could reside there full time. As it is now I have to stick to my 2 week visits and once per year, monthly visits. I spend about 3 months of each year in Thailand. I have found 5 days is the max i can stand Bangkok, then it's time to move on down to Pattaya or other resort areas.

Originally posted by CheapYngHoLuver
Yes many farangs hate Thailand because they dont understand it. They dont speak Thai, they think everything should be like USA or UK. If you choose to live in Thailand study the place, its history, buddishm, the language. Before I decided to live here I did a three year Uni course in Asian Studies majoring in the Thai Language. Even if you have a lot of cash not understanding the place is a real loss. I live up country and my "holidays" are to Pattaya and Bangkok for some mongering....not everyday of the week. I live comfortably on 25000 baht a month and earn 60000 baht a month. Life is good and relaxed. I will never return to the west. If you dont like living in Thailand it is because you expected to come and party and be a king. That gets boring after a while...trust me. Do NOT decided to live in Thaialnd until you spend at least 6 months straight here and try to live on a budget...not holiday money. Also see something other than Bangkok...Even living one hour out of Bangkok will save you 15000 baht a month.

Cheers All

08-25-03, 11:53
"Yes many farangs hate Thailand because they dont understand it. They dont speak Thai, they think everything should be like USA or UK."

I just wanna add that I've been living in Asia for years now, and it must be the same with every country over here. I hear foreigners bitching all the time about how much it sucks, but they come here with no money and no real job skills, never get away from the pubs they are familiar with, the neighborhood they live in, or the cheap girls that hang out with every other foreigner.

Thailand is my single favorite destination in SE Asia, but the money just isn't good enough for me to live there full time. I'd also like to know what the guy who makes 60k baht a month does. That's good pay there if you aren't on an expat package.

Also, I like the Stickman site personally. It's better than almost any other site I could find about Thailand. I don't know if he's a fool as Freeler mentioned, but he comes across as a nice guy. When I had a question once that no one else could answer about Thailand, I sent him an email and he wrote me a very nice and informative response.

08-25-03, 12:30
Good post Dana. Lots of expats and others are just waiting to die. The girlie bars are nice for a while (I don't like places like Nana at all). The expat bars are sad places. guys really waiting to die. Unless there is motive and direction, all is a waste. One of the smartest guys I met there was the British manager of Pattaya's Diana Inn, married to an ex gogo girl. He cannot figure out why so many guys leave their brains at the airport. These girls are ok to fuck for a few weeks and to imagine the imposisble, but the amount of shit going on in their collective heads is scary. I like to meet expats and compare notes and learn, as I do here in Tokyo. But most expats do end up living in a fishbowl(!) Because the Thai sex scene, unlike the diplomatic or other expat scene is open to any monkey with a few $$$, we get lost into thinking it is something other than what it is: a massive meat market, where humans are traded according to the $$$ laws of supply and demand. And where fools will not always get a fool's pardon.

Joe Zop
08-25-03, 14:47
This is the most sensible discussion on this issue in a long time. I've met a lot of exceptions to this description of ex-pats, but almost to a person they're folks who are using the approach described by CheapYngHoLuver -- if they haven't learned about the culture before they got there they've immersed themselves while there. They know the language and culture, and many have as many or more Thai friends than farang friends, and not just bar girls. I mean, why move anywhere if you're not interested in doing that? I wouldn't move to another part of the States and not expect to learn all about the regional nuances. Skinless, the problem with a fool's pardon is that fools expect it all the time, looking at it as the rule as opposed to the exception.

And Dana, I'd not lay it down to Asia -- I've heard the same thing from ex-pats in Africa and in places in the Caribbean, often even among those with skills and income. It's one of the natural stages of acclimating to a country, and you see it in immigrants to the USA as well -- I used to see it in foreign grad students, and received training on how to deal with it. According to the trainers I dealt with, the stages tend to go: amazement and kid-in-a-candy-store behavior, belief in the superiority of the new place, homesickness and missing familiar patterns, disillusion with the new place and a belief in the superiority of the old, and, finally, resolution by gaining a sense of balance and perspective, and acclimation. Any given person can get stuck anywhere in the sequence, and plenty don't make it all the way through.

08-25-03, 18:29

Stickman to me is a fool because of his lack of understanding of Thailand outside BKK, as Skinless pointed out in the OtherAreas section a while ago.
No bars, no gogo's and Stickman is lost.
Stickman is still stuck in BKK.

Of course there are many types of expats, much like there are many types of people in general. But somehow Mr. Dumbass who accidently went somewhere and got stuck is the most visible to us. Most visitors will never meet Mr. ReallySuccessful, simply because he has other things to do than screwing cheap ho's in Nana.
Or much cheaper ones in Korat:D!
I'm still trying to figure out who is the most pathetic of the lot: Barowner or 'English teacher'? This may take a few more trips:).

Come to Thailand and enjoy. And go home!

08-26-03, 00:54
Ok ok, I get why you think that Stickman guy is a fool. I do think there is some good info on his site regardless.
Anyway, Thailand is only a one hour flight for me, so I go there all the time. I'm not sure if I'd even want to live there to be honest. I wouldn't even consider it unless I had at least a few hundred thousand dollars saved up. Also, there are too many homeless-looking loser farangs everywhere! It makes me cringe everytime I see one of these sloppy old fools walking down the street hand-in-hand with a teenage bargirl.

Actually, now that I've been living in Asia for a few years the thing I dislike more than anything else are the unfriendly ex-pats(maybe I've become one, hehe). It's like they think it's their turf, and any other foreigner is screwing it up for them. They act like jealous girls. I can't tell you how many times I've been given the cold shoulder after having gone up to a foreigner over here and tried to make friends. It just happened several times in Jakarta last week!

I will say that you are pretty much right about english teachers. Most of them don't have any qualifications to teach anything, and show fake degrees and certs to get a job. I don't think I've even met anyone here who actually had ever taught before. I met one teenage guy in Taipei who dropped out of high school because he was a heroin addict. He did quit doing herion(thank god), but he came to Taiwan with a fake degree, and now he's teaching.

Your comment "Come to Thailand and enjoy. And go home!" left a bit of a sour taste also. I'd say, "Come to Thailand and enjoy. Stay and have a great life if you think you can pull it off."

08-26-03, 15:37
Great post from S.A. as usual. I always agree with your posts! They're usually pretty damn funny too. Anyway, it seems as though you've made the best of living in Thailand. Hopefully the quality of teachers is better there than it is in Taiwan. I get offered english teaching jobs all the time here just because I'm a white American foreigner. You can probably tell from my posts that I wouldn't be a very good english teacher! hahahah. One good thing here is you don't see too many of those "disheveled looking farangs" stumbling around. I guess it's because the Taiwanese women are so ugly and prudish that no man would ever move here just for that.

one more important thing, can someone email me offline that knows anything about Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok? I need to have some things checked out very quickly, and I was told that place was one of the best facilities in Asia.

08-26-03, 18:27

Have never used Bumrungrad Hospital myself but it has an excellent reputation and many people go there from other countries (including the USA) because of its quality care and relatively inexpensive costs. Its web site is: www.bumrungrad.com/

Billy Baht
08-27-03, 04:27
Hey Board,

I am a new guy here, so my comments are "humbly submitted."

I have lived in Bangkok for seven months and also feel that one goes through different "stages" in acclimating. And yes, as much as I like the night life, it does get old rather quickly.

I retired early and living in Thailand allows me to live a relatively decent lifestyle more economically than I would enjoy back in the US.

SA, you have some very good tips on day-to-day living in Thailand. I especially like your Korat posts. I have to get up there and personally check it out :)

I totally agree that one must learn the language and local culture if one is going to 'fit in" properly. It is interesting to have the "immigrant" experience; I can better imagine how it feels to leave one's country.

About Stickman, all I know is that I enjoy his site and on the few occasions that I e-mailed him requesting information, he answered promptly. I also respect his Thai language skills.

Anyway, Thailand is very seductive and it is easy to slide into an inactive lifestyle here. But down deep I know that someday I will skyup and return to the US. Until then, let the good times roll :)

I very much enjoy the board and information exchange!


James D 2004
08-27-03, 07:05
This is indeed the most sensible discussion ever on this thread. Let me summarize that many farangs, and wannabes, are losers. Since someone said the obvious and didn't get flamed, let me elaborate.

To move to Thailand only make sense for the obvious people. Those who move there to start a project or to be, say, head of the company in that country. Keep the foreign salary. Fixed term assignment, or with the understanding to return someday to higher management.

Those retired, who want to stretch their money over there. But since over 65 and pussy don't mix well (?), I guess someone retires early. But the losers think they can retire there early but find out that they couldn't after all.

Make sure that you can still have the choice to return. That differentiate between moving from Thailand to, say, USA, and the reverse. The former looks good on your resume, higher gross salary, more competition, bigger economy, higher GDP per capita, etc, and that they need you. If you do the reverse, even if you can explain away that you get a better standard of living, you always carry the stigma that you love cheaper pussy. If you don't have the choice to return, you are not in the bargaining position.

And remember things change. If you spend 10 years in a local company, you expect to be a manager of some sort, somebody need to do it. But in a foreign country it's hardly the case. If you are a professional, you want some professions that is much more in demand if you have 10 more years of experience. I'm not so sure about teaching. Say if you get $2000 USD per month, and assume the cost of living is low. Will you take it long term without much change in real terms? Cause it's not difficult to make that sort of money net in US, Europe and most of Asia. Also for the cost of living you have to also consider your assets. Say in good times, when you retire and sell your flat in HK or Tokyo, you can possibly buy up a block in SGV, LA.

Not so long ago in HK, the govt threw a lot of money to build a world class technology university. The salary of professors used to be high, but this time that is really high because they fight a lot with other universities who in turn fight with the industries during the tech boom. For the expat they would not be able to afford decent housing and so it's provided, comparable to say US standards, which cost a fortune. All is good until they find out that the student intake is the poorest among the local top ones. They forget that HK students are a bit like the ones in developed countries, they don't want difficult things like tech when there are plenty of other opportunities. Later the govt got poor. Even if the professors keep their jobs, and that they keep their salary while others staff reduce theirs, they lack behind compare to if they didn't come. The one that can go go. After all, if you have research results to show for the time and money you consume, anywhere is the same. For those that bet on moving higher up in 'management', there's just no openings. Indeed they are going to be combined with an older university to save something.

One way to succeed is like the Chinese Thais. Or indeed Chinese whatever in south east asia. They are established for at least centuries. Even if you are not skilled, other Chinese are given the opportunity and got preferential treatment by the local Chinese, I think somewhat like the Jew stories that the other Jews lent you money to get married and set up a business. Chinese in Indonesia is 1%??? and control >>> 90%??? of the economy? So if you take the risk to move there, you will be handsomely rewarded. Cause they need to bribe the Indonesian Generals to protect them. Malaysia - no Chinese can own a business outright without a Malay partner, something like that. Since there's nothing like that in Thailand for white guys, or whatever color, take care.

Forget about learning the culture, language crab. If you want to go there, yes, prepare for it. But that's not like you will like Thai culture better than anything else. For the Chinese, of course the Thais can tell sort of Thais one is. But for outsiders, say other Chinese, they can't tell. The Chinese Thais don't usually tell other Chinese that they are Chinese too. Very integrated. So is food. Say Seafood Cove in little Saigon is Chinese style, but the Vietnamese usually say that's Vietnamese. And the traditional musical instruments that the Vietnamese claim on TV, that indistinguishable from the traditional Chinese instruments. The places that the white guys have remotely similar sort of influence are some former colonies.

Remember that most of us want to grow up to be different, but end up not so different after all. 3 bed mortgage, 1 car 1 suv. Just don't put yourself in a sad position when you realize it sooner or later.

08-27-03, 16:56

The only time that I was really aware of the huge Chinese presence in Thailand was during this year's Chinese Lunar NewYear in Korat.
The Chinese came out on the streets, talked Chinese(!!!) and celebrated in front of their shops and other businesses.
Oh yeah, and they went outside with buckets of water and brooms and cleaned the pavement!

I've never been too impressed with the white folk celebrating Christmas and NewYear. I'd rather not celebrate at all.
I spent my last NewYear in SiSaket and had a bonkin' good time surrounded by cheap wet pussy.

08-27-03, 21:13

There was a recent clipping in the Boston Globe, written by
Marcella Bombardieri concerning the Bumrungrad Hospital in December of 2002.

It stated that Bumrungrad just became the first hospital in Asia to win U.S. accreditation , from the Joint Commission on the Accreditation of Healthcare Organization in Chicago. Also mentioned that almost half the doctors were trained in the United States. Consider the best health care bargain in the World. Said
bumrungradchief, executive officer curtis Schroeder, who hails from Los Angeles.

Here is some reference: 33 Sukhumvit 3 (Soi Nana Nual ) Wattana, Bangkok 10110 Thailand. Phone 011-66 2667-1000 Web, www. bumrungrad.com

Tourism Authority of Thailand. (800) 842-4526 or
www. experiencethailand.com

Good Luck,

James D 2004
08-28-03, 19:31
LBM, what about the other half of doctors? :-)

Even though all our local hospitals play the game, I'm not at all comfortable with US non-profits. This one want to dominate the world and cut big fat salaries for its management. Independent but then accountable to obviously nobody.

The hospital itself look like it was set up for substantial profit, with surplus capacity for export, while most countries like Thailand are struggling for public health care.

I don't know about the price, but good hospitals AND good doctors can be find in Hong Kong and Singapore. All doctors are qualified to practice in UK and Canada. Most specialist go to UK, and others to US, for training. I'm amazed by what the HK seniors are getting, advanced surgery and drugs. While the US seniors are complaining about affordablity, the HK seniors get the same expensive drugs almost free. The public hospitals get all the advanced toys available - indeed the privates ones are no competition, the private specialists have to use the public hospitals for advanced surgery. Since they are worrying how to pay for it nowadays, the public hospitals are available for private use for a price.

In HK there is only one public medical school. You used to get the best of 6 mil people - it cost you peanuts to none. No one can bribe or buy your way in. You know how the asian kids prepare for examinations starting from small? Indeed middle class kids aren't often tough enough to get there.

HK dealt with SARS with flying colors, despite that buildings after buildings are affected. The Toronto hospitals are barely coping with a much smaller number of patients. Taiwan is in a mess even though it has world dominant semiconductor facilities.

Joe Zop
08-28-03, 21:12
what the hell does that chautauqua have to do with the subject of living in thailand? do you actually know anything at all about medicine in the kingdom? ever visited a hospital or doctor there? if i recall correctly, you had a single visit to los, and never even made it into bangkok, getting serviced by some **** prostitute out near the airport. how does that possibly qualify you to make pronouncements here?

thailand is decidedly not hong kong, and the thais are definitely not the chinese.

bumrungrad is widely acknowledged as probaby the finest hospital in the entire asean region, and a fairly high percentage of its patients are foreign -- over 250,000 a year -- and not just tourists but people coming specifically to be treated there. the combo of price, expertise, being the first internationally accredited hospital in asia, the largest hospital is se asia, etc., means that it's hugely popular and the default good choice for treatment in the region. dana, if you need to get checked out, it's simply the best option you've got unless you want to head out a thousand miles or so.

James D 2004
08-28-03, 23:08
Stop barking Joe, Dana lives in Taiwan and want to use some good hositpals in the region. What I can think of is HK, much closer and ALL doctors are qualified. You are lucky if any of the private or public hospitals there do tourist packages for a good price. Thailand? No offence, but following the recent discussion, what I have etched in my brain is some loser 'expat' male para medics trying to take your blood sample with a huge needle, probably drunk.

Joe Zop
08-29-03, 00:23
So the bottom line, as I said, is that you don't know shit about the subject, and should keep quiet. Dana asked for information about a specific hospital in Thailand, not in Taiwan, in a thread about Living in Thailand. (And since you're happy to toss aspersions about the subject at hand -- just how many internationally accredited hospitals are there in HK? Try none.)

Your tripe about drunk expats with needles is just that -- there are plenty of highly capable expats working all over LOS. The discussion here has been about a particular subcultural sliver, and how not to become part of it. Just shows that you read as poorly as you think.

And who cares what you have etched in your brain, since it's all delusion anyway? People in this thread are giving answers based on experience. You've never been inside or even near Bumrungrad Hospital -- lots of us have, myself included. I'll stop barking when you stop posting on things about which you know absolutely nothing.

08-29-03, 00:45
Hey Guys,
I appreciate all the info, but i really just wanted to know if anyone was familiar with Bumrungrad Hospital in this case. I have a place to stay in Bangkok, so that's the easiest place for me to get checked out. I have been to Sukhumvit and Samitiveg hospitals in the past and both were fine, but I was recently told that Bumrangrad was the best in the region. I have already scheduled an appointment, so thanks again.

08-29-03, 03:33
I have had to visit the hospital on three occasions while in Thailand. Twice in Bangkok and once in Pattaya. The visit to the hospital in Pattaya was a rather scary one. They have a few hospitals and the cheap driver took me to the more primitive one. It scared the hell out of me worse. Their equipment looked like something from the USA in the 1940's. (no I'm not that old, but have seen old medical equipment.

I have visited and stayed for two nights at Bumrungrad. Once was for 6 stitches, the other for severe food poisoning, that led to bleeding in my stomach and having my stomach pumped and flushed. (the most horrible experience in life is having your stomach pumped!) I stayed in the hospital for two days and two nights while they made sure the bleeding has stopped. I was treated like royalty in this hospital, the nurses were great, the doctors professional, courteous and understanding! The doctors I had, spoke fluent English (as per my request) and were extremely knowledgeable of modern medicine. The bill for a two days stay, that included numerous tests, exams, stomach pumping, EKG, blood tests, medications, constant monitoring due to blood loss was just $218.00 US! I paid this bill in cash upon checkout and my insurance back in the USA was happy to reimburse me once home!

This hospital is as good, or better then anything you will find in most US cities, trust me! Now I have been told there are some more inferior around Bangkok, but at the Bumrungrad, it was great! OH, and had a few shy nurses flirt with me too! Thai females in the medical profession are extremely serious about their jobs, but with lots of persuasions, I did get two phone numbers!


08-29-03, 18:52

Concerning the other half! That can be said for any other country!
It's all relative, Look at the U.S., Medical cost out of control and the high number of Malpractice cases. We can have a whole topic debating who's the best and why!

As far as I'm concern, if you live or plan to live outside of your
own country you better / have a open mind!


James D 2004
08-29-03, 20:43
If I'm trying to answer a question here, and suggest alternatives, there's no point to post elsewhere, isn't it?

LBM, what I was saying is exactly in harmony with your opinion. For the whole US private-accreditation thing, you have to take it with a pinch of salt. And without the legal system in the equation, you have to be open minded - think outside the box. While brick and mortar, procedures are easier things to accredit, people are more difficult. That's all I have to say.

Most countries in the world have a public system. They won't ask for accreditation by a US board. I doubt if you will have a US accredited hospital in EU and Japan. In HK the private ones are more of a legacy, built when the public systems are not so good. They are still very good, but the only advantage over the public ones is that you don't need to wait. Even the waiting time is shorter than UK in general. But for the most advanced surgeries, the public ones are fully equipped. The problem of building a world class private hospital in countries like Thailand is the demand or lack of it from the locals. You have to solicit business from overseas.

As for the US doctors, it's a little bit complicated looking at their qualifications. Say in HK, its rather simple. Every doctor attend the same medical school, and all are qualified to practice in UK and Canada and much more. And medical school includes, for surgeons, years of training and practice in the newest and most advanced hospital in the land - the best hospital is also the teaching hospital. You just can't pull a doctor trained or practiced in Pattaya, put he/she in Bumrumgrad, and turn into a world class doctor in a day. 'Training in US' might mean a 1 week lecture course! Americans, you know the drill? After initial qualification in HK, many went on to earn a specialist certificate from UK, to put it on their patient room when they go into private practice. Others spend some quality time in some well known US hospitals, and if they return, they make sure that they earn a pledge from the hospital saying some good things, and put it in the patient reception room of their private practice. You will notice these things once you visit any recommended doctor by someone. There are many doctors there affiliated with major medical insurance companies of the world. They are treated as 'in network providers' and you don't need to pay them out of your pocket first.

A nurse got pulled from a US community hospital and put in a 'normal' hospital where the the median property sale price of the city is just short of $400K. She must be qualified, good and experienced, but whenever patients ask anything from her, her answer is always no, then start thinking about it. Training shows.

US trained is not necessarily a good thing. One OB doctor care too much about her patients, that she try not to cut her patients open at the slightest hint of trouble. She also shared her thought and hence hesitation with her patients. Of course she doesn't last long. She don't deliver anymore. OB's are one of the most sued professionals. Some newer doctors just can't afford the insurance premium especially after being sued once or twice. Experienced ones don't deliver anymore since they can afford not to.

08-29-03, 21:57

I think whats happening here is that " Dana" ask a simple question and he's getting something more than that!
My reply to him was just a few quotes from a newspaper clipping,
others were from individuals that have experience this particular hospital. Your reply goes way beyond the scope of his question and that's why your getting negative responses on your comments.

I think Joe Z. says it best!

Dana, mentioned he has made an appointment! Let the proof be in the pudding as they say.

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.


08-30-03, 08:12
Hi, noobie (translation "newbie"') on the board here. I've been perusing this and other sites to get a feel for "living" in Thailand. I've yet to visit, but plan to in the future. I qualify as a BOFU and am getting ready to retire in a few years.

Thailand heads the potential places to retire to based on the few Thai's I've run into in the states, what I've read about the place, and little else, at this point. I see where some people state you can live on 25,000 baht a month, another says 40,000 baht, and so on. I've checked out a few online rentals and the low end 5000 baht or so a month places look like I'd run into a wall if I turned around too quick, not to mention a kitchen that would fit in doll house. I'm not looking for opulence, or at least a state-side view of opulence, but I'd like to find a one bedroom, nice living area, some dining area, and a real kitchen with space and food prep area. Phone and internet are requisite too. So is that more the 25,000 baht a month or higher kind of place?

And Taxes. No one talks about taxes. I realize that many of you are from different places and fall under different tax laws, but when someone says 40,000 baht a month, I take it they mean 40,000 after taxes.

If all goes well, I'll be looking at roughly 100,000 - 110,000 baht a month before taxes, with a 20,000 - 30,000 baht back up from other investments, again before taxes. How much Uncle Sugar and the Thai Gov't are going to want from that, I don't have a clue. I do know that I'll be paying about 10,000 baht a month for health insurance available from my employer (after I retire). I plan to keep that because it covers me anywhere in the world and if I decide to move back to the states, it will still be good.

I plan to check out various areas, because I'm not sure where I'll be most comfortable staying. Probably not Bangkok, either north to a city or south for a more laid back holiday atmosphere. The Thai women are not the primary reason for moving, but they are part of the agenda. Nice place to live, interesting things to do, people to chat with, good food and so forth are the primary requirements, with an occasional evening of pleasure on the side.

Any comments on the tax aspect or the living quarters would be appreciated. And I do look forward to checking it out in person.


08-30-03, 21:29

I would strongly suggest making an extended trip to LOS before making a spontaneous choice to just move over there. I spend a total of 3-4 months of each year for the past 9+ years in LOS, but am mature enough to know that I probably could not full-time it in that wonderful country. Financially I can afford it, but mentally, I am ill prepared. You need to go there for a 2-3 month stay of which half that time had better be away from the gogo bars, WG and other expat things. Try to adjust. I would venture a guess that only 1 in 3 can actually lie claim to having what it takes to reside in this country year in and year out. I'm not one of them, there are some on this board who have and are. Maybe when I'm 45-50 I will be able too. But for me, I still need the offerings of the good OLE USA, an NY City, Vegas, life in California, 2 months once per year and a few weekly visits each year is all I can take. I would strongly suggest that extended stay before selling out in the USA and just moving, you might regret it!


08-30-03, 22:57

i hear you! i'm not carving anything in stone here. i plan to visit in the near future, next year probably, but only for a week or so, due to vacation time limits. when i retire, i expect to move "provisionally" to thailand on a multi-entry visa to try the place, spend time finding a spot that i can be comfortable in, and so on.

my personal circumstances are such that when i retire, i will be pretty footloose and fancy free. thailand as a destination doesn't really effect much of how my retirement takes place. my house will go up for sale, even if i decided to stay right where i'm out, since i'm no longer enamoured with lots of yardwork. selling my car isn't a big thing, and most of my personal possessions will either go into storage until i settle on where/what i choose to do or get sold. some artwork, personal momentos, and my kitchen gear are really about all that i am attached to.

but cost of living and taxes will have a direct effect on things, obviously, since i'm not a high-roller. if taxes don't put a big crimp in my income and if i don't have to spend half of my income for a decent place to hang my hat, then i expect to do a sort of reverse of your current plan. eight or nine months a year in thailand (or where ever) and three or four months a year else where, probably the states, but not necessarily. there is lots of the world left to see, and i plan to take a peek at some of it.

if i can set aside (save) 40,000 baht a month, hurrah, travel won't be problematic. if i can only set aside 10,000 to 20,000 baht, then i'll probably have to travel less/stay for shorter periods. and that will figure into whether i'll decide to stay long time or short time in thailand.

i have no intention of running off to thailand, buying a condo/apartment, and finding myself stuck and miserable. what i do plan to do is to stay pretty fluid until i sort out how and i and the place fit. but i do appreciate your keeping me grounded. thanks for your input.


08-31-03, 20:34
samus aran

thanks for your input. maybe i should have stated my original post in terms like: i'll be coming to thailand at some point with an eye toward living there.

my initial trip(s) will be simply evaluation of the lifestyle. i don't plan to live in nana plaza (or around there) or down at pattaya, though i sure do plan to visit them at least once.

there would be things i'd miss about life in the usa, of course. mostly pbs television, but other stuff too. however, much of my relaxation is computer based, and as long as i can get a good connection, i'll get by. (yeah, i've been going through the thai providers checking out high speed access.)

if things don't work out, i expect to pick up and move on. but i've found that research and planning make it more likely i can succeed at whatever i attempt. so here i am, doing a bit of that.

and yes, sa ... the availablility of young willing women does factor into my choice. but it's nowhere near the top. nice place, friendly people, good food, good entertainment are at the top. i'm a bofu remember. i cannot fill my days and nights with a perpetual hunt for a tight fit. but i can envision the odd weekend hunting it.

so i may be visiting for a few months, a couple of years, or who knows. when i get there and see how it sorts out, i'll have a better idea. but again, taxes and dwelling are the two topic headers for me at the moment. i see you are paying 5500 baht for a nice condo. that sounds great.

i've done a number of searches for thai real estate and my impression based on what i'd be comfy with, is i'm going to get hit for 20k to 30k a month for a rental. which is do-able if taxes don't eat me up. i'm looking for 700 - 1000 sq ft (65 - 95 sq meters). and a real gosh-darn kitchen! four (gas) burners, stove, counter space, food prep area. eggs benedict on sunday, baby back ribs on the fourth of something. you get my drift, right? i can live without the nfl/nba/espn quite handily. but darned if i will give up my kitchen! (what do thai girls like to eat? j/k)

i'm guessing that uncle sugar is going to want a minimum 19 percent. i won't be liable for state taxes since i won't be living in the states. that leaves what the thai gov't will want over and above the us federal taxes. but if anyone from the states is living in thailand and can tell me how that works, i'd love to hear it. my income will be primarily retirement pension with a bit from personal investments.

also, thanks to everyone on the board for their posts, this place does give me a great feel for what i'll be walking into. of course, nothing replaces experience, but it's nice to have some seasoned advice before making the plunge. heck, the board that deals with the city i live in (state-side) has been quite an eye opener for me as well. if i was simply looking for girls, i could stay here and nail tail just from the reports there.


09-13-03, 18:03
bangkok post 8 september 2002. some russians doing bank jobs in pattaya? are there many openings for foreign criminals in los.

from russia with vice

transnational crime: until last friday, foreign criminals had never attacked a legitimate thai business. after decades of maximum tolerance, is it now time for thailand to be a little less friendly?

prasong charasdamrong and surath jinakul

three suspected russian bank robbers who were arrested with around 980,000 baht cash on their way from pattaya to prachuab khiri khan last week. from left to right: mimlikeev marat, udarov renat and cheremnykh felix. _ boonnarong bhudhipanya
in the evening of friday 30, august, a sunday perspective reporter was having dinner with a thai who does business with some russians in bangkok and pattaya.

as they were eating, the television news reported a bank robbery in pattaya that had taken place just hours earlier.

the report did not mention the robbers' nationalities, but the businessman grabbed his phone. ``i'm going to ask my russian friend if he knows anything about this.''

in english, the thai businessman spoke into the phone. ``they're saying on tv that some people robbed a bank in pattaya and killed a policeman and that the robbers look like farangs.''

half-jokingly, the businessman asked: ``are they your people?''

after five minutes, he hung up. ``he says he doesn't know anything about it but they couldn't be russians. he's going to ask around.''

the next morning, police arrested three suspects who they identified as cheremnykh felix, 31, mimlikeev marat 32, and udayrov renat, 31, all former russian kgb (komitet gosudavslvennoi bezopashosti) agents.

a fourth member of the group, still at large, is believed to also be a former kgb agent.

police investigations show they sneaked into the country illegally from cambodia a few weeks ago and went to stay in pattaya.

shortly after offices opened last friday (30 august), four armed men in leather hoods walked into the bank of ayudhya branch in south pattaya and fled with three million baht in cash. in the process, they beat up two bank employees and killed corporal songkitti maneechote, a pattaya policeman, who was transacting some personal business at the bank.

police arrived to find a crowd in front of the bank talking about the robbers who they said were heavy set and spoke english.

``they must be westerners,'' many said.

some pattaya residents even concluded: ``they must be russians. the russian mafia is everywhere.''

in the bank, police found corporal songkitti lying in a pool of blood flowing from a bullet wound to his head.

interior minister purachai piamsomboon promptly ordered police to crack down on all mafia gangs in thailand. ``stop these foreign criminals from coming here. we have enough good foreigners and good tourists,'' he was quoted as saying.

this is not the first violent incident involving foreign criminals in thailand. there have also been a lot of bloody turf wars among foreigners.

for instance, chinese triads have left a trail of mutilated bodies in and around bangkok in recent years.

in november 1999, three triad members were shot dead by a rival gang near a don muang tollway checkpoint.

a year earlier, late in the night of october 21, 50 year old jurgen braeuner, the major german shareholder and managing director of jom thien hill resort was shot dead in downtown jomtien. braeuner was also a past president of the thai-german friendship association in stuttgart, where he had been imprisoned for misusing the association's funds.

after the killing, fights were reported between german mafia gangs in the town, resulting in dozens of death and arrests. pattaya streamed blood.

pakistani fights continue to be reported in bangkok, even as gang members from the middle east engage in fatal revenge attacks, ``for no apparent cause'', according to a police informant.

the incidence of crime among foreigners in thailand has so far not been properly documented, and minor criminal offences by people from various countries are often not publicised in the media.

this time, however, three russians have been arrested for killing the policemen and robbing the bank while the hunt continues for the rest of the gang, thought to be a mix of thais and other russians, involved in the daring heist.

criminal paradise

probably because of its open society as well as its central location in the heart of southeast asia, thailand has criminal gangs from many countries.

many pass themselves off as tourists, exploiting the country's relaxed entry regulations aimed at promoting tourism.

the thai government's strong tourism promotion policy aimed at generating more revenue inevitably required making the country more open to all visitors, regardless of origin.

when interior minister purachai took office last year, he immediately began implementing ``a new social order'', and later spoke of such undesirable ``foreign mafia'' elements.

however, the government has stopped short of denying particular visitors visas on arrival as it is believed that, though it might stem the influx of foreign criminals, it would make the country too unattractive to legitimate tourists.

police sources confirm that several foreign crime groups and criminals not only visit thailand but also operate here.

gangs from china, taiwan, hong kong and macao operate gambling dens and engage in drug trafficking and smuggle chinese to western countries.

gangs from pakistan are mostly caught for passport counterfeiting and [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) to the west.

a few months ago, police arrested some pakistani criminals and confirep001ed a hundred forged passport.

the police believe the group had links to african and chinese gangs which smuggle people to third countries.

south asian criminals are generally involved in counterfeiting banknotes, passport forgery, drug trafficking, and human smuggling.

gangs from germany and several other scandinavian countries mostly invest in entertainment businesses, from beer bars, to ago-go bars, from motels to hotels, not only in bangkok and pattaya, but also in upcountry tourist destinations such as phuket, chiang mai and chiang rai.

in addition, thailand is home to criminal gangs from iran, malaysia, australia, indonesia, the philippines and the former soviet union.

according to national police office spokesman pol maj gen pongsapat pongcharoen, there are over two million aliens on thai soil, including some 1.2 million legal and illegal burmese immigrants, as well as some 600,000 hong kong and taiwanese chinese. the rest are from such places as pakistan, russia, germany, africa, and the middle east.

``we are certain that a percentage of these people are members of organised crime groups,'' pol maj gen pongsapat says.

an inside source in the police department agrees. ``many of them from various countries have established underground empires, using various businesses as fronts.''

a police officer points out that pakistani gangs top the police's crime list, followed by taiwanese and haw chinese in northern thailand, including remnants of the now-defunct 93rd division of the kuomintang army who migrated to northern thailand from southern china.

the third biggest offenders include hong kong and singaporean chinese, followed by japanese yakuza.

criminals from european countries rank fifth, said the police source.

``the europeans may not commit crimes as frequently, but they have huge networks with a very high level of financial interests here, topping all other nationalities,'' he said.

apart from front businesses, they are also in the jewelry trade. some own or have shares in luxury hotels, the source says.

the police officer says this list is ranked on crime frequency _ not gravity or criminal population.

dangerous by degrees

the police source says european gangs in thailand include germans, russians and swedes.

police crime records attest to the fact that the russians are more dangerous than the swedes.

``the german gangs here threaten our public safety more than russian gangs do,'' said the police officer.

the officer pointed out how well-entrenched wolfgang ullrich was in pattaya.

ullrich, now 58, is a well known figure in pattaya. he was arrested on 4 september 1998 for illegal entry, having been declared persona non grata .

this was after the german had been running businesses in pattaya for years, including restaurants, pubs, go-go bars and serviced condominiums.

police suspected him of involvement in human and drug trafficking, but were unable to pin any charges on him.

last week, he won a court case over illegal entry but was extradited to germany for criminal charges, including embezzlement.

his huge business interests continue in pattaya are now being looked after by his thai wife.

since his arrest and deportation, german gangs in pattaya have been quiet, but reports of a sudden surge in the numbers of russians have placed the police on alert.

``it could be that russian organised crime is taking charge of the underground world in pattaya and the provinces,'' the police officer said.

pattaya residents confirm that ``russian tourists are everywhere _ on the beaches and in dimly-lit sois.''

most come on chartered flights that land at nearby u-tapao air base.

immigration records show that this year pattaya has received nearly 85,000 russian tourists, a 40 percent increase over the same period last year.

they come to pattaya knowing that many of their countrymen run legal and illegal businesses there. legal businesses include restaurants, go-go bars and tour companies while the illegal side includes brothels staffed with russian sex workers.

some of the russians were granted visas on arrival. once they've exhausted their arrival visas, they generally travel to cambodia's koh kong, to the east of neighbouring trat province, or to malaysia, to get new visas which allow them to stay for another 90 days.

``of course,'' the police officer said, ``the majority of the russians and foreigners here are good people. however, we are certain that a minority are involved in crime.''

according to police, russian gangsters have established a firm foothold in pattaya over the past six years, ever since the collapse of the soviet union.

many are former members of the kgb. ``these kgb agents could no longer stay in their own country,'' says a police source, ``so they came here.''

an inside source says they are sometimes here to follow up on unpaid bills or services from former clients. others come to engage in arms sales, not only in thailand but all over the world.

``in fact, the united states is the main springboard for their legal and illegal activities,'' said a thai police source.

``we are talking about huge sums of money here,'' he added.

``after they collect, they can stay here comfortably. they can even invest in businesses.

``then there are other former kgb agents who live off their own expertise, getting involved in extortion of protection fees and hired killings.''

on 17 june 1997, police from bangkok's lumpini district captured a former soviet army officer and confirep001ed a number of firearms and fake passports. police suspected the russian of arms smuggling but were unable to find evidence.

on 31 march 1998, estonian hardo kerz, 29, was sentenced to life imprisonment in bangkok for a gangland type execution of a russian bar owner in pattaya.

police found evidence linking hardo, reportedly a former kgb agent, to the death of constantine povolski, owner of the ruski restaurant and the straltri restaurant.

hardo was reportedly a hired gun, and the killing was prompted by conflicts over drug and prostitution businesses.

police linked the killing to a russian duo known as yanos and yalia, well-known gun slingers, who have since disappeared.

however, the russian mafia continues to be alive and well, say police. a mr victor is thought to have assumed control.

``victor is becoming a big shot in pattaya. we keep our eyes on him, but we have yet to find hard evidence linking him to organised crime,'' said the policeman.

in 2000, the thai government set up a special transnational crime centre in anticipation of the country's acceding to the un convention. however, the agency has yet to succeed in implementing screening visitors for links to criminal activities.

bad reputation

``these criminal activities damage our country and corrupt our public officials,'' said a senior police source. ``they impede the development of the legal economy, spread drug addiction and prostitution, and endanger public safety.''

a un report in 2000 quoted an international monetary fund (imf) estimate that the illegal economy in thailand is about three percent of the world's gross national product (gnp).

some 27 million people have been smuggled across borders worldwide and the figure may be as high as 100 million if those caught up in economic slavery are taken into account.

in december 2000, thailand joined 150 countries in signing the un convention against transnational organised crime.

with 41 articles covering a wide range of subjects, including money laundering, corruption, extradition and protection of witnesses, the treaty will come into force after 40 countries have signed it.

the effectiveness of the convention rests with the adoption of complementary laws by all countries. ``we have to be certain that a crime in one country is also a crime in another,'' commented a police officer.

policemen still believe that traditional procedures are inadequate when it comes to tackling organised crime, where undue influence, money and violence are used to distort the judicial processes. victims and witnesses are silenced using bribery, intimidation, even murder.

``better procedures and new technology must be used in investigations, and must be admissible as evidence in court,'' said another officer.

new or updated laws will enable countries to cooperate with each other in investigation and prosecution of organised criminals operating across national boundaries.

the public can help: condominium owners or landlords can keep detailed records of foreign clients. ``ordinary people should inform the police of any suspicious activities near their homes or offices.''

risky business

however, the biggest problem in dealing with organised criminal gangs, say the police, is that they have their own secret movements and operations.

``it takes time even for police experts to penetrate these organisations and arrest their members,'' said a police source.

``how can they operate here without the help and support of corrupt local government officials and influential figures?

``we know for sure that corrupt police and state officials are supporting them.''

making contact with corrupt policemen is easy for them.

``the visitors need help when starting their businesses here. they look for protection from local officials and the police and they get it,'' says the source.

foreigners open small business in the name of thai proxies, either a wife or business partner. this is the first level of support.

certain types of businesses inevitably require protection, especially go-go bars and night spots. the foreigners then approach the police, state officials and highly placed politicians to help them get over such problems as licensing, being allowed to operate after hours, smuggling liquor and cigarettes and getting visas.

but in the end, it's not quite that easy.

``these types of investors are not always lucky. those who help them often turn on them and blackmail them,'' added the police source.

``once they stop paying up, they end up in jail, or get killed. they have no real power of their own to protect themselves. if they leave one protector, they must find other corrupt officials if they want to survive.''

09-13-03, 21:39



09-26-03, 19:42
Thanks for the pointer LittleBigMan! Some good info there. I guess I'd better order a Thai langauge cd and start learning a bit of the lingo before I visit.


09-28-03, 23:57
Well, I'm all better from my trip to Bumrungrad hospital, but it wasn't cheap! Great doctors though, and I highly recommend the place.

The one thing I wanted to write was that anyone in Bangkok now should check out this movie called, "Butterfly Man". It's about a wimpy guy from England who falls in love with a Thai massage girl in Koh Samui. The movie was pretty weak, but it surely would be entertaining for any ex-pat male.

09-29-03, 00:28
What did you end up in the hospital for? I too have spent a few days at the Bumrungrad hospital, great doctors, nurses and staff. My expense was very cheap. Just curious as to what you did to end up there? I got a bad case of food poisening with stomach bleeding.


10-07-03, 08:34

I have bin living and working for a while in Thailand, working, but is considering stay here after my assignment is over. Yes you can live pretty well from 60-120 000 Baht a month, most mid level Thai managers make about 25 45 000 Baht a month.
You can rent a house with 2 bedrooms from 10 000 a month, depends on the area, f. ex in Phuket you get a house like that for 8 -12 000 a month if you stay in on of the urbanisation where "regular" people live, not typical tourist places, in Phuket that means Phuket Town or on the south east part of the Island, not Patong, Karon or Kata.
If you are over 55 years old and are official retired in the US you can get a one year Visa, but you must show proof of a income more than 40 000 baht a month or have bank deposit 800 000bhat, check out the webpage for Phuket Gazette www.phuketgazette.net their question and answer section.

When it come to the Finances, keep as much of your money as possible outside of the country, get your self a offshore account in a country like Hong Kong, Singapore where they will not tax your income generated outside their country

I will recommend that you come here stay for some time and see if you like the country the people and the way of life in an every day perspective.


10-07-03, 19:33

Hey, I appreciate the insight! I completely agree with you (and others) about coming over and seeing how it works before getting too grandiose in my planning. I will do just that although my vacation time is limited due to work constraints.

I want to check out Chiang Mai, Hua Hin, and Phuket as potential retirement sites. The housing costs sound very good. Another website talked about the cost of maid/cook services being in the 8000 baht a month range (depends on a number of things, obviously). Of course, I keep watching the dollar to baht ratio sink on the financial market. But hopefully it won't continue too long that way.

Thailand sounds wonderful, but so does Costa Rica and a couple of other places. So over the next three years I plan to visit most of them. Then when I retire, I'll try my first choice on for a few months and see how it works. Nothing is carved in stone. The circumstances that make it easy for me to leave the states make it just as easy to pick up and leave anywhere else too.

I'm a bit curious why you say I should keep my funds in another country versus Thailand. Is that just the tax thing? As far as I can tell, I'll get taxed by the US Gov't on anything I make from investments regardless of where the income is located. And some of the funds are tied to the US as is my pension. But the funds from sale of house and so forth can be moved around as benefits me.


10-07-03, 20:29
A few corrections need to be added to the retirement information listed below. The age for a retirement visa has been lowered to 50 years old so being 55 is no longer a requirement. The income level required now for the retirement visa is 800,000 baht in the bank when the application is made or renewed or the same amount in a monthly retirement income that can be proved. They will also accept any combination of the two which totals to 800,000 baht per year. So if you had 40,000 baht a month in retirement income that would be 480,000 baht a year. You would also need to have 320,000 baht in the bank to total the 800,000 baht amount. The retirementís visas do have many other requirements that must be met but they are a great way to stay in the country for retirement.

10-08-03, 19:29
Assorted medical ramblings.

One thing I'd like to clear up re: foreign doctors.

Just because they trained in the US does not mean they can practice here. Practice opportunities for foreign trained docs are very limited. Docs can get a special visa (called a J-1) where they can practice for a few years in underserved areas. But it is true that most docs at BGR have attended the best medical schools (such as Mahidol) and are US trained (on their own website you can view their credentials/training).

I have been to BGR and my experiences have been mixed. I like their dermatology department, non-plussed by their dental dept. Overall the image that Tallnhandsome is trying to portray is not accurate. They have the same expertise overall we do here.

In terms of prices, it is cheap. Of course, labor/construction/salaries are a fraction of the West. You still pay a farang price at BGR but again, it's a bargain. Just be aware that medical malpractice is nowhere near as protective in Thailand as the US. If something goes wrong you will not have a lot of recourse.

I still am trying to figure out why they did gastric lavage on a patient with food poisoning! Weird!

10-18-03, 19:34
For those interested in living around the Pattaya area here is some general info:

In Brief Ė October 2003
Pattaya Property Market,

The market continues to grow and is in good shape despite the low season, Sars, and the Iraq war. Agents have reported busy trade in Pattaya for the last eight months, with gains in all the property sectors including condominiums, houses, land and commercial premises. Price increases for the last three years have produced double digit growth and are expected to rise by over 20% for 2003.

Naklua is currently very tight, with relatively little available but attracting strong demand, especially for condominiums in the Wongamat Beach area.

North Pattaya has also been busy with development, particularly the Markland Condotel proving popular and showing rapid gains.

Central Pattaya is very lively with sizeable gains in shophouses and new commercial developments.

East Pattaya, villages across the Sukhumvit Road have been selling well, with firm interest in quality properties on good developments.

Jomtien here again busy with development, strong demand, and rapid gains.

It is not only in sales that demand has held up, but rentals are also firm, with rising rents for condominiums and houses across the board indicating strength in the market. Gross rental yields are currently achieving up to 10 % return.

The region has also seen increasing interest from investment funds and wealthy individuals, particularly from Hong Kong and Singapore looking to invest in Pattaya, as property prices in Bangkok are approaching pre-1997 prices. Given the improving Thai economy and the rapid heating of the Bangkok market, the attractiveness of Pattaya real estate as an investment is not surprising.

So to summarize, the market has weathered the storms, mainly on the back of an excellent Thai economic recovery, and the real estate prospects for Pattaya and the surrounding areas look very good indeed.

Jing Jung
10-27-03, 02:18

I suspect that the advice to keep money in another country comes from several factors: 1) Thai financial institutions don't have the same degree of oversight as in some other countries. 2) Flexibility of moving mon ey around from here while theoretically equal to other countries is still not as easy. 3) Thai currency is less stable as seen in past and present. Therefore, I would not want to risk my whole nut on Thailand bankling system.

For myself, I keep most of my money in the USA, another large account in Hong Kong (HSBC) and working money in my Thai accounts. My advice for a Thai Bank would be Thai Farmers, Bangkok bank or Siam Commercial (in that order). Others would undoubtedly have other opinions and experiences. I've had accounts with each of these plus two others in Thailand.

The HSBC account in Hong Kong is an excellent extra account for the following reasons. it can be accessed easily by phone (for moving money arournd), or by internet. Their Powervantage account allows very large withdrawals by ATM card which is a real advantage since transactions in Thailand are still often cash based. Finally, it offers a linked account to 8 different currencies. You can easily move money from USD to HKD, to Yen to Baht etc. This is a very useful play for people who need immediate access to the funds, or who wish to do their own hedging by placing money in a couple of counter-moving currencies. Doesn't require great financial acuity and increases your safety. plus HSBC is a major institution.

Just my rexperience to share.

The Traveler
10-27-03, 21:38

I think you should delete DirtyDoneDave's post below, as far as I remember no advertising is allowed here.

10-28-03, 09:54
Jing Jung,

Thank you for the insight. I'll open an account when I get to LOS. And do I need to visit Hong Kong to open account with HSBC? Not a biggie when the time comes. But if I can do it from the states, it is one less thing on my list when I arrive in SEA.

I figure someplace around 5k to 10k US (in baht or whatever monetary unit makes sense) in Thailand, a somewhat greater amount in Hong Kong, and my primary funds are retirement based investments in the states. Pension and so forth.

Couple of questions. Long term storage in Thailand, Bangkok most likely. If I want to start "prepositioning" some goods there, funiture or whatever, is that expensive or complicated to do?

Firearms. I see this one is never mentioned, but I take it skeet shooting, trap shooting, and that sort of thing is non-existant or difficult to come by? Given the current world condition, asking about a handgun is probably tantamount to spending the next week in interrogation there.


11-18-03, 19:20
I have a legal question for old Thailand hands.

I won't go in to too much detail, but I was attacked in the street by a TG after a slight dispute about a small theft. We had been unable to come to any agreement on services in the room, so I had given her only 100 baht for the ten minutes of her time wasted. So she became angry and took off with the room key. I followed, reported the theft to the hotel, and the bellmen and I confronted her nearby - she returned the key to them but became enraged and attacked me. She grabbed me to prevent me leaving, demanded money, and hit and kicked me. Of course I didn't defend myself in any way, and the bellmen called the police. Before the police got there I managed to pull free and leave in a taxi. I then got a new hotel in a different area (previous hotel was pre-paid, no need to return). So, what I wonder is, should I have stayed to talk with the police? Is it likely that she could lie to get me prosecuted in some way? Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?

Lesson learned: I used to always keep my hotel room untainted by the girls, using only a short time room for sex. This was a great way to minimize dangers, and I'm going back to that policy. If there's a problem, you simply get up and leave.

11-18-03, 22:36

There is no one answer to this.
I turned to police myself a long time ago, when a girl split from my hotelroom in a town I will not name.
I paid a mamasan for a B1000 LT with this damned cute girl. After I fucked her three times she split, the night was far from over...
I went to the reception desk and demanded they call the police. They did and police arrived within minutes to take my statement and to take me to the brothel where I picked up the girl. The arrival of the police caused a larger group of Thais to leave the premises; at least 10 customers left without leaving a single Baht behind. I very much doubt they ever came back. The loss for the mamasan, who of course refused me a refund, was much greater than the B1,000 I paid her.
In another instance a girl turned to the police to go after me. I paid her B100 of the agreed B200 after she puked all over the floor. It was such a mess that I kicked her out and paid the two roommaids B50 each to clean up. After explaining all this to the very kind police officer he asked(!) me to pay the girl B50 more. Which I did. I no lose face, he no lose face, ho no lose face. Everybody sanuk!
You were very smart not to fight the girl. Never fight a Thai - you are on your own and there's 60 million of them - you lose.
Changing hotels was the obvious thing to do - take your loss and go.

But it is impossible to say whether you should have called the police or not, or should have stayed to wait for their arrival after the bellman rang them. You must somehow try to understand the atmosphere and stay or leave in a hurry depending on your gutfeeling. Up to you!

However, I feel that you made a BIG mistake by not setting the price up front. I know that some here disagree on this, but I always set the price up front and I had only these two problems with approximately 5-600 Thai daughters, mothers and grandmoms!

Road accidents are a different matter. If you have half a change, pay the damage you are blamed for, take your losses and leave before the men in brown arrive!

11-19-03, 09:35

your story is extremely remote from anything I ever experienced in Thailand, or heard mentioned as having happended to others.

I suppose that your TG was a freelancer that you picked up outside a disco late at night, or something like that. For what we know, she might have been high on yaba or glue or whatever drug.

Her behaviour is very much un-Thai, and the police might have taken a hard line on her, unless there was something else about your situation that might have upset her.

In a way, you were lucky. She might just as well have killed you. No kidding, these things happen.

What Freeler reports is much more in line with a Thai behaviour: taking advantage of the rich Farang, but with no violence whatsoever.

Some Farangs seem to have a talent for putting themselves in an impossible situation, behaving in ways that they would never dare to dream about at home in Farangland. Western embassy staff in BKK are fed up with having to extricate their fellow countrymen out of dire straits ...

11-19-03, 13:04
Freeler, thanks for the advice. You're correct, not fighting back was key - but it only comes natural to me as I've never fought anyone in my life and am not about to start with a woman in a foreign country. I'm only worried about whether there's any possibility of the police being after me, since I wasn't present, and you never know what kinds of lies might be told. It might be seen as an opportunity for big bribes? But I doubt anything will come of it. Guess I'll find out when I go to the airport eh? One development - just visited Bumrungrad Hospital and turns out I have a serious knee injury. Maybe that will look good in court.

Seydlitz, you're quite wrong about the behavior I described being un-Thai. Thais are very calm most of the time 'Jai Ren Ren' or something like that, but if enraged, especially by a loss of face, can be terribly dangerous. They just 'snap'. And no, nothing I did was a reasonable cause for the upset, though who knows what lies she might tell police. My behavior here, as well as at home, is always very calm and polite - fact I think my calmness infuriated her more. Being raised rather traditionally in the US Midwest, I cannot even raise my voice to a woman, much less a hand. My mistake, brought on by a run of good luck, even with freelancers, was to let my gaurd down. Well no more!

11-19-03, 16:24

Unfortunately you can never TRUST a ī*****. They are selling themselves because they are poor, want a better life fast and easy, and conflict runs with the territory.

Angeles City Philippines is notorious for having ®runners®becuase you pay the bar first, then the girls try to duck out and go home as soon as possible. I dislike that place because one the girl is paid the whining starts. Just like any employee. They should get paid after the work week, not in advance.

Better not to trap the girl in a corner or they will strike back. On the other hand, do not let them steal from you. Try to lock your belongings in your bag with a small lock. I put my money in my shoes under the insole, where they canīt find it.

Donīt worry too much. It can happen to all of us. Usually I just let the girl go and get another one. Its not worth the hassle sometimes I complain to the bar about the girl for all it is worth.

Good luck. JUST BE GLAD YOU DID NOT MARRY A GIRL LIKE THAT! My ex wife used to take all the large bills out of my wallet every night. Õ started hiding my wallet, but she would find it. Talk about a lack of TRUST. Glad Iīm not married, even though she had some other good points.

11-19-03, 17:13

It's not really fair to compare Angeles to Thai destinations like BKK, Patong or Pattaya.
Thailand overall is much safer than the Philippines.

Sometimes I don't know why I say yes to one girl and no to another. Intuition? Gutfeeling? Experience? It doesn't matter, if you don't feel 100% comfy with the situation: walk.

I tried very hard to think of Thais fighting. I can only think of two occasions. Once in a railwaystation, two girls were queueing (I like that word!) along with 50 or so other people and all of a sudden they started shouting and kicking eachother. It stopped as suddenly as it started.
No-one interfered.
The other time was, again, in a railwastation. Two vendors seemed to be just talking when one lashed out to the other, knocking him down and kicking the poor guy when he tried to get back on his feet.
Needles to say that no-one interfered.

After seeing this behaviour you fully understand that it is important to mind nothing but your own business.
Come to Thailand and enjoy and don't get involved in anything!

11-21-03, 05:45

This is what happens when you are stupid enough to interfere when Thais are fighting:

"A good deed never goes unpunished

A recent incident brought injury to Pattayaís own Colin Young, better known as ďElvisĒ. In an attempt to break up a domestic battering of a Thai lady by a Thai man, Colin sustained two broken fingers and was scheduled for surgery later on in the week to repair his broken digits.

ďThis is the third time I have gone to the aid of a Thai lady and have been attacked. And in each incident, I was attacked by both parties in return for my kindness. This will be my last act of chivalry,Ē Colin said with a wry grin."

11-25-03, 18:38
Living in Thailand Ė My Master Plan

It wasnít supposed to happen like this, but things rarely happen as anticipated. Iíve been contemplating my escape from America for the last two years and after much thought and reflection I decided that I would leave at the end of 2004. However, that changed on Thursday 20th of November 2003 when my boss informed me that I was fired. He also fired 11 other people in my office that same day and 1,988 other people where also canned company wide. It seems all our programming jobs are now going to be done in India. Who can resist farming out our jobs when the Indians can do the same job for 1/5th the cost? If I were a businessman Iíd probably do the same thing.

I started programming when I was 22 and my career has lasted for 19 years, as I am now 41. Iíve been saving for a long time so I have a pretty good nest egg (savings bank Ė pun intended) to live on. I will get full severance pay for 28 weeks and a friend is going to rent my house from me while my realtor friend is busy selling it. This was a lucky break, as I wonít have the cash drain of paying for a home that I am trying to sell. Thank God (or Buddha?) for the small miracles.

So this is how it all comes to an end: a lost career and a new beginning. The master plan is coming to fruition without much planning after all. This is the story of my river-like existence on this planet. I am taking a break from tossing out all my belonging (by the barrel full) to write this little article and inform the WSG world of my grand initiative. I still have a ton of things to throw away. I have already ridded myself of 90 percent of my furniture. I did this last summer knowing that I was only going to stay in the USA for 18 more months. Iíd already sold the motorcycles and other large assets except for the house as well.

Now for the rest of the plan, I spent yesterday changing all my bank accounts, credit cards, brokerage accounts, etc. to point at yahoo as my primary email address. I will consolidate all my accounts into three accounts: a bank account, a brokerage account, and a Paypal money market account. The friend that is leasing my house will send me my payments via Paypal. I will continue to throw away and sell all my junk until I am down to a backpack of clothes and a laptop computer for writing my memoirs.

The planned date of escape is January 12th as that is when the tickets to Bangkok become reasonably priced from Dallas. A moment, my doorbell is ringing. That was my new renter. He just stopped by with his son to inspect the house and we just closed the renterís agreement on a handshake. I donít think there will be any problems because I have known him for 15 years. Where was I?

Oh yes, the master plan. On January the 13th I will step off the plane and be living in the Land of Smiles. My current girlfriend will pick me up at the airport and we will go to her house (now my house too) via Taxi. Once there, I will unpack my bag of clothes and settle into our comfy little one room apartment.

There is a bathroom with a western style toilet, a sink for shaving/brushing teeth, and a shower nozzle that sticks out from the wall in a corner. Lucky for us, there is no hot water. There is no air conditioning either so we wonít have much of an electric bill. The rent is a pricey Bh3600 per month and the ants that walk up and down the wall are very friendly indeed. I will have on going conversations with them when I get bored. Sounds like heaven, donít you think?

The rest of the apartment is a dream. There is a balcony with a sink for cleaning dishes, a large double bed with hardly a mattress, four pillows and a blanket, a nice table with three chairs, a refrigerator, a wooden couch, a rice cooker (no kitchen), and a lovely divider in the center of the room that has a closet on one side and bookshelves on the other. It also makes the little place seem to be two rooms instead of one. Over all, it is a splendid place to live and it is located on Soi 77 just a Bh20 motorcyle-taxi-ride away from the On Nut SkyTrain station. Always remember that with real estate the important thing is location, location, and location!

There are other wondrous amenities offered at the apartment. There is a nice little cafeteria where breakfast or dinner for two runs about Bh100. The Laundry shop will clean 50 pieces of clothes for Bh500, a fairly outstanding deal I am told. Iíve already mentioned the motorcycle taxis and thereís a great bar-b-que place just down the street, along with a place to play badminton a few blocks away. All in all, it will be a paradise!

I have chosen Kuala Lumpur as my border-crossing destination because there is a lovely girl there that says I can stay at her place anytime I like. Yes it is a long train ride away from Bangkok but Iíve never seen KL and I figure I might as well choose a place where I can get the 60 day visa (extendable for 30 days) each time so that I donít need to cross the border every month. I think four crossings a year is much better than twelve are. I guess I am going to find out.

I think I am going to find out many things on this adventure and I will be placing all my future (near future anyway) posts from Bangkok or KL. Once I get there Iíll give a post and see if any of you guys would like to meet up and swap stories/notes on the subject of Ė Living in Thailand.


Today is a new day and I have some more to post before I send this message. I got an email yesterday evening from a girl that wanted to take me out to dinner. Iíd gone out with her once before in October. She got so drunk that she claimed she needed to come over to my house and rest a while before she drove home. Well, it was an adventure in itself. She became the main character of the book titled ďSheĒ by Rider Haggard and proceeded to strip in my living room and kitchen. Afterwards, during her climaxing bliss, she showed me what it is like to F### a squirter. Man! Iíve never been so wet!

Oops, I am getting sidetracked. Last night she took me out for dinner and I ordered steak and she paid. Quite a nice turn of events I think. Afterwards, she took me home for a second time and after the second time was over she proceeded to purchase most of my remaining furniture. She bought the washer and dryer, the entire living room set, a chest of drawers, and a bookshelf. Now, admittedly, I gave her a knockout
once in a lifetime deal on it all. After all, she is a squirter. :)

Okay, it is 11:30am and I need to get back to throwing things away. I guess Iíll start with the 8 or 9 beer bottles left over from my sales campaign. :)


P.S. for Freeler: This is a joke written on a bag of chips that was translated to me by a Thai girl.

If there is a car crash involving multiple vehicles, what will the Thai people do? Count the number of cars, count the number of survivers, count the number of dead, and then write down all the license tags and go by lottery tickets.

I thought this was pretty funny. :)

11-25-03, 21:18
Posterlion: Your post seemslike a very sad and plaintive call. Sure the programmng jobs are going to India but why are you going to LOS? Just for the pussy? You do nt sound like you are going to enjoy it. It is a major shock to actually live in a foreign culture and I hope, for your sake, you are up to it. If you do go to LOS, make sure you have a plan B - an exit strategy!

11-25-03, 21:47

'I thought this was pretty funny.'
It's probably d-e-a-d serious...:(

I won't try to stop you from doing what you think is right BUT is it wise to sell the house?
I would get an agent to rent it out and collect the money and probably officially keep on living there...
But I write this from EU, not US.

11-25-03, 22:42

Your dream future sounds like it has not been thought out. IMHO. Have you spent at least 2 straight months in the LOS? Very few if any foreighners enjoy a lengthy stay in Thailand before going stir crazy about the way westerners are brought up v.s. the "Thai" way of doing things. Thailand is no Disneyland long term. Hopefully you will not get tired of the corruption, pollution, and never truly fitting into "Thai" society. Do you think your girlfriend will settle for living in that dinky apartment on your fixed budget for long? I hope you have plans to keep your mind and body active instead of becoming an alcoholic, poor, and sickly falang who's only friend is other wasted, incentive-challenged ex-pat's who forgot where they came from. I sincerely wish you well!

11-26-03, 01:05

You are absolutely correct. I have not put much planning into this at all. Iím not going there for the pussy although it probably seems that way and I will probably not be able to convince anyone on this board otherwise. That said, I do like this girl quite a lot and Iíve known her for about a year now. But I am not going there for the Bargirls. I am sure of that. I had sex with about 50 or 60 of them (not just in Thailand) during the last half of 2002 and the first half of 2003. I can confess with absolute experience that pumping prostitutes gets old after a while. I am sure many of you can attest to that.

Iíve been writing for three years and I had some things published recently so that I think I will spend a lot of time writing during this hiatus. Iíve stayed with the girl several times this year and I donít mind those living conditions at all. I have read many opinions that differ from mine. Some people need air-conditioning and things that remind them of home. To be honest, I might start feeling that way myself. I wonít know until I have tried it. I think it just works that way.

I have to admit that I also believe it will be difficult to live in a foreign country. I am not taking this step lightly. Iíve cultivated friends all over the world in the last three years and if anything, Iíll just look at this as a way to go and meet them. The girl in KL is a case in point. Iíve known her for three years and she even offered me a job back in 2001 as a corporate writer but I turned her down because I want to write fiction instead.

I have a plan B for sure. That plan is to come back to the states via American or Northwest. I have over 100,000 sky miles on either carrier. I am scratching my head wondering if the grand initiative is a sad plaintive call. It very well could be. I am melancholy by nature.



I think you are right. That joke probably is true. That is what the girl told me after she translated it to me. It is a dark humor. Thanks for the tip about the house. I may not sell it just yet. The guy that is renting it from me used to be my boss and he has a 14-year-old boy that goes to the high school that is two blocks from where I live now. He may want to stay in the house until his son gets a car or graduates. At the same time, I was thinking of selling it anyway just so I could be more flexible and move to an apartment in the downtown area of Dallas. If youíve ever lived in the suburbs of America then youíd understand why I might want to be closer to the city.



I think I meant the admission to Skinless about little planning on my part for you. You are right man; I am just doing this by the seat of my pants for the most part. At worst, Iíll move there and not like it and return to the states. But even if that is the case it will be a learning experience. The corruption and pollution will not bother me too much I am pretty sure. Unless of course that corruption takes the form of something that will directly affect my bank account or land me in jail. Iíll be careful and watch my back at all times. As for not fitting into Thai society, well, I donít even feel like I fit into American society. Granted, I will need to learn some Thai and even then I will be a farang that speaks Thai and nothing more. Iíll have to learn to deal with that.

I think the girl will want to stay in that apartment because she has many friends that live there. Iíve met most of them. One guy is a writer for a magazine. Another guy is an ad designer. There is an actor that hangs out with them as well. He did a show at the Silom Galleria back in October. They did a review of it in the Nation on October 12th I believe. Basically, most of her friends are in media, drama, or modeling. I think I will partially fit in with them because I have the writing bug myself. At any rate, most of her friends are more exciting than the people I know in dear old Dallas. So for me, I ask myself, ďWhy not go? Why not try it?Ē

Iíll be sure and exercise and stay fit. I know how to do pushups, sit-ups, and squats in a small room. Itís not that difficult. Iím 5í10Ē, 158 pounds, with a 32-inch waist. I donít plan on getting fat anytime soon. :)

The way I see it, there is very little downside in giving it a shot. But I want to thank you guys for your warnings. They are well taken.


11-26-03, 20:12
a wise person once said "if you are going to make a major change the first thing you need to do is determine if you're running away from something or running to something".

i too am in my early forties and deciding what will be my future. i'm lucky in that i don't have an easily exportable job. i am currently working fulltime until my student loans are paid off.

however, you need some sort of financial plan. you need to know what your fixed costs, all of them, are going to be before you move. i think your apartment will get very tired very quickly, esp during the hot season.

what i personally would enjoy is living simply but living well. i already do that here in the us (live far below my means but comfortably). i want some basic creature comforts; comfortable bed, cool environment (a/c is not an option!!), hot water. these are basics. i also want a nice tv, satellite, transportation, good medical coverage, income for emergencies, income that advances with inflation. i think it takes a ton of planning. then you can sell all your stuff.

i will give you my current 'plan'. in about 3 years all my student loans will be paid. after that i will have no debt other than my house and it will be 1/3 paid off. i currently put away 35k a year for retirement. my goal is to have 250k saved up before i go to the 'next phase' (below). judging how things are going, i should have well over that by that time. what i am going for is 40k or more of inflation adjusted income when i retire. ideally i'd live well on 50k/yr.

i will be in a position to work 1/2 the year for almost 6 figures. i plan to either sell the house, or rent, and basically sell off all my current possessions. i plan to buy a really nice rv and use it to go to my temp jobs. when i'm ready to go overseas, i plan to park my home and leave. i should have enough saved for retirement to just let it sit and accumulate, although in my plan i do want to add to it (just not at the rate i'm going now). after another 5 years of that, i should be in the position i want myself to be in. i will get there by paying off debt, not accumulating a lot of new debt, and by continuing to save the way i do now.

if you are really thinking of making a move, you should try out a 'test run' of about 6 months before committing to a life overseas. none of this, none should be impulsive. these are the people i've seen flame out and become embittered ex-pats.

you should learn the language well for whatever country you choose. if you are at zero now you will need a few years to get up to speed.

living overseas is not for everyone. personally i could take about 6 months a year. that's the goal (at least at this point) i'm shooting for.

honestly, i would go for the puss, but more the 'good' girl puss, where a woman treats a man the way they should be treated, not because i will always have a st just around the corner (although a nice perk!). i think there's a lot more to it than that.

Joe Zop
11-26-03, 22:31
Posterlion -- I think LOS is a wonderful place to spend some time writing, and a pretty nice place to hang around, and I can empathise with your desire to pack up and go. Being and expatriate is has long been a respected motif for writers, and one of the advantages of being is Thailand (as stated to me by an Aussie novelist who lives there) is that there's a fairly low bar for getting published there if you're writing in English. I've certainly met any number of interesting folks in the Thai arts and culture scene, and there's a lot of very interesting dynamics going on there. I'm not going to bother wasting time by trying to argue you out of it, as that would both be futile and I'm not at all sure it's warranted -- you seem to be in one of those rare points in a life where one can make a major change without great issues other than the big one of whether or not one is personally equipped to handle it.

That said, I have several comments for you in regards to your plan.

First, I'm not sure I'd be consolidating all my finances so dramatically for a number of reasons. First, people have posted here about problems getting money from Yahoo while in LOS. If you're planning to use it primarily as a conduit for getting money from the States easily deposited, then that's one thing, but if you're thinking of using it as a way of accessing money via ATMs that may be something else again. I'd also say to you that greater flexibility for your money might be wise on several counts. My friend who lives in Chiang Mai, for example, had his US ATM card stolen, and it took close to a month before he got a replacement. In the meantime he had to survive via credit cards and borrowing money from his Thai wife (something for which he paid and paid on several levels.) He had a bit of money in a local Thai bank, but not much, and had no desire to transfer more there. Presume things get stolen or go wrong -- how are you going to get access to your money?

Second, since you've done no planning, what exactly are you going to do about your visa status other than run across the border every month or so? You should be aware that after a certain point, the Thai authorities may simply refuse to let you back in, saying that you've had too many tourist visas in a row without a break. I know a couple of people to whom this has happened, and it was a very nasty surprise. (The number allowed was different for each of them, and in no instance was it something where palms could be greased.) You're too young for the basic permanent visa via retirement, I believe, and you can't get a work visa if you're simply there writing, so you might want to spend some time doing some groundwork on this issue. You certainly don't want to set up a life there, get it working to your satisfaction, and then be barred from it at the border because you've ignored possible problems.

Finally, I know you're being least tongue-in-cheek provocative in your description of the apartment you'll be sharing (hence the conversing with ants bit) since it gets a rise out of folks here, but to me the real question is one of budget -- how much have you looked at how your money can/will last? If you're happy with those conditions, great, and it sounds as though you can live fairly cheaply, but what do things actually look like once your house sells? If you're, say, fifty-percent more extravagant than you think you'll be, how long can you last? If things don't work out with this girl, what will things look like in terms of budget? Etc. Just seems like something that should be a bit more concrete.

The Traveler
11-27-03, 00:08

Freelers suggestion to keep your house and rent it out makes sense at the first look, but if you dig deeper and take in count that currently there is some sort of a bubble in the real estate, I would definately sell it right now. But keep the money, don't spend it !!!
Wait till interest rates go up and therefore mortages will get more expensive. There will be less demand then. Now it's a sellers market, but soon it will be a buyers market. You can buy an apartment then and rent it out.

Have you done some research on health insurances, visa regulations and so on? You won't be a tourist anymore and have to take in count much more issues than just for a short trip. Joe Zop mentioned a few of them.


You mentioned, that you like to have 250k before moving to the next step and after another 5 yrs will be in the position you wanted to be in. If you keep saving like you do now, sell your possessions and pay all your debt you might have around 500k if I get you right.

You expect to get 40-50k a year out of it, which makes 8-10%. You should also keep in mind inflation and the fact that the growth in asian countries are still usually higher than in europe or the US and therefore average income will grow faster there. If you want to keep up with that you will probably need more than your expected 50k just to keep your living standards.
Regarding all those issues you got to make 15% interest on your basic investment, so you don't have to touch it, save some to match up with inflation and increase your income.

Do you really believe that you will have 15% return on investment over the next 40yrs or so ? The last 3yrs should have taughed you a different lesson.
I would rather calculate with 5% return on investment and wouldn't quit before having 1.000.000 (euros not US$ of course :-)
Better be pessimistic and calculate carefully. There probably won't be a way back after you left work for 20yrs or so.

Just my 2 cents and my approach on this issue.
BTW, also plan to relocate to LOS and will have reached my goal in about 3-5yrs.

Have fun

Plain Hungry
11-28-03, 17:53
Hello Mongers,

Like so many others, I'd like to live in Thailand. It'll be about 2 years till I'm free for such a move.

(I'm open to advice on other country's too)

Yep, the TG's are a major magnet for me. But also safety, low cost living, decent medical, and well stocked stores are very important.

I hear some expats actually live at hotels, instead of apartments. The logic being that maid service and electric are included at the hotel, thus lowering the cost and simpifying things. (bill paying is a hassle?)

What's your living situation?

Any mistakes you or others made? How should one make this move?

12-01-03, 17:56
A couple of questions.

Traveler, I noticed your posts about insurace. I've not looked into that yet so I wanted to put a question to the board asking for any information on this subject. (Thanks in advance). As far as the house. I have a girlfriend of an exgirlfriend (both from South Africa) that is going to be selling my house for me. I agree with you about this BUBBLE thing. My buddy is going to rent my house while it is up for sale. I am saving him about $300 a month with the deal I am giving him and his son can walk to school from my house. And... It will be good for my cash flow.

Also, has anyone learned Thai to the point of fluency (near fluency)? If so, can you please give advice on the best method of learning. I think I am going to want to learn the Alphabet for sure. Hmmm, well, I have a feeling this is not going to be so simple as learning Spanish in Mexico. (Thanks in advance on this one as well)!

Poobah, I am working on the Financial plan. It is coming together. I think I will be pretty well situated for a good while. I am not leaving the US with no thought of ever coming back. For now, just consider this an extended vacation (with no known return date). As far as accumulated wealth goes, I am a little over the 250K mark you mentioned. I qualify for my pension from the dear old phone company at the age of 55. Of course, I am not so sure I can count on that money. That's just a myth until it really happens.

The hot sticky apartment has suited me fine in the months of July, September, and November. I agree, I might want to upgrade to AC at some point. But it hasn't bothered me to not have AC that much. The first time (in July) it took about four days before I adjusted to it. But after that I have become used to it. As for the unheated water. Believe me man, it is a very welcome thing without AC! hahahaha. :)

Anyway, living arrangements can be changed. I would like to view the immediate arrangements as a matter of convienence. The girl is already living there, we get along fine, and she's cool with me moving in. I'd say this is a far cry better than having a girl move in with you. I can leave at anytime if things seem to be going awry.

JOE, I am not planning on using Yahoo for money transfers etc. I am just using it for email. It has always worked fine from Thailand for me. And thanks for the update about writing in Thailand. It is writing that got me into this situation and maybe it will be writing that helps me further my stay in LOS.

The lost ATM is something I have been wondering about myself. I think I will bring two ATM cards from two different banks. It is your suggestion about not consolidating that prompted me to do this.

I plan to set up wire transfers between the brokerage account and the bank accounts. And I will be using large multinational banks that have offices in Bangkok. Do you think that will help me get a replacement card quicker?

The emergency plan would be to send a western union to myself from an internet cafe. That is kind of expensive but it can be done easily enough. I'd appreciate any more advice you might have on this. Thanks!

The visa thing does scare me a bit. I agree with you. My friend in KL will let me hang out for quite some time I think and if worse comes to worse I'll freakin' move to Eastern Europe for a time.

I have the same set up between Turkey and Romania and Poland. I know a lot of people in those countries. When I said that this stuff got started from writing I was not joking. I have been sending about 200 women daily poems for three years now and have made a lot of friends this way. Some of them want to be my sponser! :)

Time to go and get caught up on my reading.


12-01-03, 19:44

"For now, just consider this an extended vacation (with no known return date)."
If it is a vacation, set the return date and stick to it!
Unless you want to end up like a LonelyPlanet reader stretching your last Baht till it breaks. Believe me, I've seen plenty of those sickos and they don't look good.

"Do you think that will help me get a replacement card quicker?"
I'm pretty sure that the issuing bank, that's the actual office, has to replace any lost or stolen cards.
I would keep a relatively low amount on the ATM account and have a certain amount automatically transferred to that account on a monthly basis. Set a monthly amount and stick to it!

"The visa thing does scare me a bit."
I don't think it should. Getting yourself a brand new passport via the KL embassy is cheaper than 'moving' to Eastern Europe.
Your plan is not to live in Eastern Europe but in Thailand with your girlfriend. Stick to that plan!

Why give your friend a $300 a month discount:(?
If he is your friend, and not just a passerby who wouldn't go away, he should be happy with a rent of say $50 under the market price.

Go to a real estate agent and ask how much the house could fetch in rent and how high your costs would be.
Only farmers in the ThirdWorld sell their land and farm for quick money.
You should know better!

"I have been sending about 200 women daily poems for three years now and have made a lot of friends this way. Some of them want to be my sponser!"
Why don't you join forces with Samus Aran, the self confessed man*****. You write the poems for him so he gets to bang more fat white uglies. Share the proceeds, et voila!

12-01-03, 20:13

You are quite funny. lol...

1) I will probably stay longer than 90 days. That is as much of a plan as I have, so I actually am sticking to it. I'll risk becoming one of these unsightly individuals that you have been talking about.

2) I like your idea about having a limited amount in the ATM. This seems quite wise to me. Thanks. I also like the PLAN, of regular contributions. I can stick to that plan.

3) I never mentioned the Eastern Europe part but I also want to go there again. It was part of the original plan. It just wasn't spelled out on this board. I only brought it up as to Joe's query about what to do if I can't get in the country. But I never thought about just replacing the whole passport. That might work. But aren't all your entries and exits recorded on a computer now? Wouldn't they know I'd been coming and going even if I had a blank passport?

4) I will charge what I want for the house. But I'll consider a higher amount if I decide to rent to someone else later.

5) I'll ask my real estate friend this very question you posed. A good idea. I've checked other places that are for rent and yeah, I could get more than I am asking. I'm just in a hurry, okay?

People sell things for various reasons. Sometimes it is better to be in cash than in a house. It depends on whether you think the rains are going to be there to water your crops or not. You can always buy the farm back when the weather is more favorable and the current owner is bankrupt.

6) give SA my poems so that he can continue to be a man*****? Hmmm... Does this mean I will get to play his video games?

7) What part of the EU are you from? I take it you are living there now from a previous post.


12-01-03, 22:02

no funny intended.

i don't think you should be in a hurry when moving to a country halfway around the earth. take your time to sort things out.

are you really considering selling your house, the best investment for a private person, and buying one back later, when property prices have risen twice the speed of inflation and six times the growth you got from interest minus spending? you are the funny one, not i.

"give sa my poems so that he can continue to be a man*****? hmmm... does this mean i will get to play his video games?"
bring this up in the negotiations:)!

you did say: "and if worse comes to worse i'll freakin' move to eastern europe for a time."

i know you are a romantic, but planning is the key to survival.

12-01-03, 22:07
His friend should be happy to pay $50 under current market .. or words to that effect.

Hey, maybe so, but most of my friends would rather pay as little as they could. No they don't want to stiff me, but darn few don't like saving bucks either! Fifty bucks may be big money in LOS, but it is not big incentive on rent for most folks. Depends on what level of income/rent we are talking about, of course.

Three hundred bucks off might be a bit much, but remember that PosterLion wants to be in another country, not down the road where he can deal with problems that occur at the house. He could hire a property management group to handle the house, but they take ten percent off the top for it.

By renting to his friend, he has someone he has confidence in living there, doesn't have to fork out the bucks for property managment team, doesn't have to worry about running back if there is plumbing problem, understands the house is for sale and will deal with that, etc etc.

One thing he may want to consider is his home insurance, which is written for him as the dweller, not as an absentee landlord.


The Traveler
12-02-03, 00:28

Selling Posterlions house might be the right decision.
Sell when the prices are up, buy when they are down. This counts for any kind of investment. House are no exception !

Why do you believe that renting out a house is the only way to get more money ? And that a house is the best investment for a private person ? This is an old say but never proved. But you are right, don't sell in a hurry, get a fair price.

He can let his money work for him, buying funds, stocks, discount certificates or what ever else he might consider. Only bonds are a big NO NO right now.

I am investing in the stock market for almost 20yrs and feel very comfortable without a house. Other investments can get you higher interest and right now there is definately a huge bubble in the property area at the US.
Anyway, there are 3 very important factors that set the price for property - 1.) location 2.) location 3.) location. If you read his post carefully you would have seen that he wasn't very happy with the location too.


My thai is fluent (after 20yrs it should be :-) and I learned it from just talking to people and the girls. But be careful, choose your teacher wisely. Many girls try to teach you bad words and usually don't talk in a proper way. Mostly less polite, they all know better but seem to be too lazy or just get stuck into the scene.
Look TV, listen to the news and keep asking. Pronouncing is very important, most farang don't hear the differences between two words and therefore pronunce wrong.

Regarding insurance, try Blue Cross or - much better - AIA.

Freelers assumption of sticking to a certain amount per month is the only way to survive in LOS. It's so easy to burn your money. Stick to it.

Have fun

12-02-03, 02:33
Posterlion -


is a good site for basic Thai. Uses FLASH so you will either need to have it or download it. Pronunciation is by Thai native speakers (absolutelu accurate) and they also have the beginning of the kindergarten reader (no easy task - 46 characters, no word breaks, but it starts to make sense pretty quickly (but your memory will need regular jogs - just USE the language, you remember more that way) headphones help, too

you will need to work your way thru the site (a lot is sort of "buried" in there, all good info)

Joe Zop
12-02-03, 02:44
Posterlion, if you're truly wanting to be a serious writer, I can't imagine not wanting to learn as much as possible about the language where you're living. I spent a fair amount of time researching Thai lessons, and my conclusion is that a) you absolutely should learn the alphabet, something I've neglected thus far to do, and b) you need instruction that truly drills you and then drills you again on tones. There are far fewer words in the Thai language than English, and learning Thai and learning Spanish is very different because Thai is a tonal language. If I were you I'd do two things -- first, I'd take regular classes, and second, I'd get the absolute best dictionary you can find and work with it, asking your girlfriend and friends questions about usage, commonality, etc. Ask, ask, and then ask again. There are plenty of phrases and expressions in the various language texts floating around that just aren't used that much or commonly, or that have specific implications. The only way to understand those is to ask people about them. Think, for example, of the idiomatic phrase (apt for this board) "getting to third base." You have trouble understanding the implications unless you understand baseball, and even then you don't necessarily understand the sexual connotations. Every language has that stuff, and Thai is no exception.

Yahoo will certainly work as a primary email address -- I've never had any major trouble with them anywhere in the world. You might also want to pick up a local one via LoxInfo or whomever as well, which is cheap enough to do and gives you a lot more flexibility since it's a POP account. Alternately, you could always just register a domain and go that way -- posterlion.com is gone, but it looks like the org and net ones, as well as some others, are available.

As far as the visa goes, rather than just go on a wing and a prayer, or plan to spend money randomly on plane tickets because you get stuck, why not contact one of the Thai consulates and ask about the best way to approach things? There are three in Texas, including one is Dallas, which I believe is right near you. A small investment in research would help you form a viable plan.

And Freeler's right -- the card is going to come from your home bank, no matter what, so it's best to maintain flexibility. I've found myself in situations all too often where I'm far from home and my primary card isn't available, and it's not a pleasant situation. (And it was a brain fart on the whole Yahoo and money thing -- I was thinking Paypal!)

The renting thing sounds fine, but if you're going to do that longer term you'll need to be absolutely certain you have a responsible agent overseeing things -- if you're half the world away and something happens to your property (or repairs are needed) who's going to see to it? And I'm with Traveler in that it depends on the location as to whether or not property is a good investment: in my hometown people tend to lose money on real estate (since no one in their right mind wants to live there) so your decisions need to be based on the best possibility for growing your money, be that real estate, stock market, or whatever. Your new "job" really isn't going to be writing, since poetry's not a paying gig, but looking after your financial resources so you won't be forced to seek a "real" job...

12-02-03, 03:56

Well let me just say, read the title and thanks for the responses. I am a bit nipped right now. I am four poems deep and I am pretty sure I am done with writing for the night. I posted a few of them on this board back in July, the last time I slept with Margarita, my Mexican amore. I think I better make it down to the border to say goodbye before I leave. :)

About the house, I am for selling, whether the bubble is true or not. I believe Freeler lives in a smaller country, no cut intended, but what if I come back to the states to get a new job and the offer is in New York? Do I really want to own a house in Dallas?
Probably not.

Freeler, where the heck are you from man? I (and maybe some others) want to know. I do thank you for your comments about the regular ATM transfers. I believe it a good idea as does Joe.

Traveler, I am on your side of the investment angle, even though I own a house, I've made a lot more money in the stock market this year than I made from owning real estate.

What else is there to say? I spoke to my south African real estate agent today and she is cool with doing business with me as long as I can find an internet cafe and a fax machine. She used to work at the phone company too, so she is versed in technology.

But she does tell me that my new renter must agree to keep things clean so that she can be impressive to prospective buyers.
Who can blame her for such a comment, not me.

Joe, thanks again for your eloquent words. I told someone I back channel on here that I thought you must be a writer. I'd say it is obvious from your many posts (over 1000)! :)

So, being that I am drunk, and being that I am in a good mood, and being that the construction guys were jack-hammering my property to get it ready to sell: I'll post the last poem I wrote tonight, and, the last poem (maybe) I'll ever post on here! :)


It looks like we need to have a negotiation!

P.S. I think this one is for those that don't have much of a plan...



that's what it's all about
it's like looking at a map

all those roads
all those destinations

are you looking at the DOT
the LINE?



12-02-03, 12:39

Thai MPs protest mistress ban

The party wants to stop MPs visiting massage parlours
MPs from Thailand's ruling Thai Rak Thai Party are getting hot under the collar over plans by the party leadership to ban them from having mistresses or visiting brothels.
Later this month, the party, led by the prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, will consider plans to screen candidates so that only faithful and monogamous husbands can stand in elections.

One MP told The Nation newspaper that if the rules were enforced, the party would only be able to field around 30 candidates, compared to its more than 200 sitting MPs.

Another said it would lead to mass defections.

But Thai Rak Thai spokesman, Suranand Vejjajiva, told the BBC's World Today programme that social values were "getting stronger" in Thailand, and people had higher expectations of their politicians.

" If your background is not as, quote unquote, clean, or quote unquote, up to social standard, as the other guy, I think you have to pick the other guy," he said.

And he said that all MPs were "now under evaluation".

Many of them have expressed outrage that the party hierarchy is trying to interfere with the practice of keeping a mistress, or "mia noi" as they are known.

"To have a mia noi is an individual's right. There should be no problem as long as the politician causes no trouble to his family or society," one MP, Thirachai Sirikhan, told The Nation.

The party's action appears to have been prompted by a series of scandals, with wronged wives and mistresses publicising their stories.

Mr Thaksin himself cultivates an image as a family man, and frequently appears with his wife and children by his side.

12-02-03, 16:39
Skinless: I just came here to post that very message but you beat me to it! A few words were different as I found the article on Yahoo Singapore. Here is that link. :)


Here is a quote from that article: "MPs are not angels and not all of them can be good examples," Thai Rak Thai member Boontoem Jantawat told the daily, adding it was a man's right to have a mistress or visit massage parlours.

It's amazing how truthful politicians can be when their extramarital activities are threatened! But I can't blame them for being pissed, I would be!


12-02-03, 21:05

Check this out:
This is just 'a' statistic of one year. If you Google a bit you' ll probably find similar statistics for the past 30 years. A 30 year
average is what you're looking for - you want to leave the US long time, right?
Compare those to statistics on interest rates, rents, income, bonds and stock.
Do a little homework. It's worth it.

I'm sure Samus will take up your offer of poems for play:D!

The Traveler
12-03-03, 00:19

your statistic just proves that my comments / advise are correct. Prices are up. Anyway, nothing beats stocks in the long run.


yes, this year was quite good if you had the balls to buy when stocks were falling. I did and have made about 40-45% in average. No house or other property gives you such opportunities.

Have fun

12-07-03, 01:19
Investing from Thailand

I have been developing a method to screen stocks that have a good chance of increasing in value. It is a very simple screen that uses only three parameters. I evaluate the companies based on their relative value to themselves and to their industries. After that I eliminate any company that has a high amount of debt. It is really very simple, but the results seem to be very good!

I included the sample portfolio so that you can see for yourself. Look at the 14 stocks that were added on June 25th. That is the sample for this particular experiment. I simply ran the stocks through the screen. Out of about 8000 stocks these 14 are the only ones that passed the screen.

If you invested 1,000,000 Baht (evenly split) in these 14 companies on June 25th and sold them today, you would be 210,000 Baht richer. All this in less than six months!

Pretty cool huh?

I plan to try this for real very soon. Maybe I won't ever have to work a normal job again. That would be even cooler!


12-07-03, 01:29
Learning Thai

Can anyone comment on the A.U.A Thai Language Program. I found them on the internet and their prices are very reasonable. If you buy 200 hours at a time the charge is Bh56 per hour.

If you consider 15 hours a week as a full load of classes, most US universities consider this full time status, then 50 weeks of classes would be 750 hours.

I decided to round this to 800 hours for ease of calculation. I can buy 800 hours of this training for 800 * 56 = 44,800 Baht.

This equates to roughly 1120 USD. I am thinking of applying for a one or two year student visa based on this information.

Has anyone tried this?

Thanks in Advance!


P.S. If anyone has experience with A.U.A's Thai Language Program, please respond.

12-07-03, 03:29
Poster boy: You fucking amaze me:
1. Please read the BA board and see how Saint funds himself.
2. Companies like Nova in Japan make their money by getting people like you to sign up for hundreds of hours of language teaching on New Year's Day. Most drop out by mid Feb or March. If you insist on going to Thailand, go there first, set yourself up, then check out language schools. Do not do it from America.
3. You are in America and you and your 5 minute system which you post on a sex board know more about making money on Thai stocks than the Thai Chinese who run the crap shoot which is the Thai stock market. Pleez!

POSTER BOY: STAY IN AMERICA UNTIL YOU FIND OUT WTF YOU ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM. If not, you will end up in big trouble in Thailand.

12-07-03, 04:45
Skinless - And the scary thing is I worked for NOVA years ago... man are they bad!!!!!!! :(

12-07-03, 09:40

"POSTER BOY: STAY IN AMERICA UNTIL YOU FIND OUT WTF YOU ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM. If not, you will end up in big trouble in Thailand."
To the point as ever. So Posterlion shouldn't sell the house:D.

Joe Zop
12-07-03, 20:18
Well, to actually respond to Poster's A.U.A Thai Language Program issue -- I have a friend who lives in Thailand and used them. He felt they were mediocre, though he told me others of his friends liked them. But the bottom line is that there are plenty of independent Thai tutors who charge 100-150baht an hour, and given that AUA's base rate is 92baht/hour you're not looking at massive savings. You're seriously thinking about signing up for hundreds of hours of training without knowing whether or not you'll like the process? Why not try it for a bit at first, and if you like it, worry about getting the discount later?

And as far as your stocks graph goes, are you actually serious? Coming up with a brilliant plan for evaluating stocks and making some great pronouncement about how it works during a period where the stock market in constantly rising says absolutely nothing other than that you're ripe for the picking.

The Traveler
12-07-03, 20:19

Your system might work for a short time, but I really doubt that it will work out in the long run and provide the income you need to survive in thailand. Anyway, I expected you to be smarter than that. How can you believe that just a few months (special situation now anyway) are proving that your system works. Did you check it with different time frames, 1, 3, 5 and 10 years or even longer ? Did you compare it with alternative investments ?
I already invested in the thai stock market, but I did that 1.5yrs ago and made over 60% plus on that. But for over a year it was a non-winning game, only check the SET index chart and you will see what I am talking about.

Wake up and stop dreaming

12-07-03, 22:48
I had a similar idea as Posterlion about moving to Thailand, but I think I did the smart thing and checked it out for several months. I had plenty of money saved, so I spent over 8 months in Thailand over the past two years and decided that it really wasn't for me at all. The initial exitement wears off very quickly. I had no intention of ever becoming an English teacher for 35,000 baht a month, so the job market was impossible. I would advise anyone considering moving there permanently to go and rent a decent apartment for a few months and see if you really want to stay. If there had been a chance to find a decent job I might have stayed, but I tried and tried with no luck.
Also, you should consider the inconvenience of the awful traffic. I found it to be a huge pain in the butt getting around anywhere, and I'm from Chicago!
If you are there for even a short time, you will see the the shape most ex-pats are in. They are not doing well for the most part. There are so many sloppy, weary, messed-up looking farangs living there it's truly sad!
I won't comment on your stock picking idea except to say that I completely agree with the other forum members.

12-08-03, 19:19
Checking it out


Yeah, that is what I am going to do intially. I am going to move there and check it out. I agree with you and the members comments that I might actually not like it at all. I don't think I want to be an English teacher either. I figure I'll give it six months and then decide what I want to do from there. There is no reason to think I have to carve my future in stone.


I was not planning on paying for a bunch of hours up front. The idea was to get an invitation from a school on their letterhead and take it to the Thai Consulate (I just found out there is an honorary consulate here in Dallas) and see if I could be granted a long term visa based on that. If I were to get one it would be a good thing because I would not have to leave the country unexpectedly as you sugguested in your previous posts.

To all you guys,

Yes, it is true that six months in a rising market is not proof of anything. But I have been using that method for a long time and it has done me well. I read it in some book years ago that tested it agaist Media General data and their study showed that it provided an average 38% return based on market data going back to 1920. I have been tweaking it by adding debt requirements to insure the survivability of the companies the screen returns.

I started an investment club back in 1989 called "Massive Investing Promotes Savings." I quit in 1994 because I was tired of doing all the accounting work and I was tired of the B.S. that happens when a small thing becomes too large. But the club is still in existence and from what I hear, it is doing very well.

As far as investing goes, it is something I am going to do no matter where I live.


I am pretty sure I am not running away from anything. I've been pondering that point for some time. For me, I am just walking on a different road for a while. It should be fun I think. So, SKINLESS - I WILL BE COMING TO THAILAND, the mind is made up. But I will take your advice and go read about the Saint.


I'd be interested in talking to you about Asian markets. You seem like someone that has some financial savvy. I watched a report yesterday that was predicting Asia was going to be a good place to park money for the next ten years. So I appreciate any good information on the how, where, when, and why aspects of buying and selling in these markets. I assume it is much different than American markets and quite frankly I would not know where to find information on financial securities in these markets. I have only been a player in the US markets so far in this life.

Thanks everyone,
poster out...

The Traveler
12-09-03, 00:21

Yep, I am investing for over 20 yrs now and due to my current financial status must have done it right. Sure, I have made mistakes as well and had to pay for the lessons I have learned. So the stock market is not that much different from TG's, :-)

You will find the daily quotes for all thai stocks, many funds and most currency cross rates at the Bangkok Post. The head of the chonburi stock exchange is a friend of a very close friend of mine. That proved to be very helpful in the past.

But beware about investing in the thai stock market. Foreigners weren't allowed to buy stocks directly (like A and B shares in China not mistaken with the A and B shares in the US) so they needed a Thai in between. That was done by a financing company like the e.g. GF in Pattaya. When the stock market plunged during the asian crisis and the GF went bankrupt all their customers lost all their money. Don't know if the regulations have changed, but I can check on that.

I bought the SCB SET fund, which is an index fund managed by the Siam Commercial Bank. I choosed this fund, because I buy the whole thai market with it and it performed a bit better than the index over the last years. I am also able to buy it directly on my name. Since I won't be able to sell a certain stock fast enough when I am not in LOS so there was no real alternative.

Have fun

12-09-03, 16:29

Everybody here has given good and sound advice on how to avoid the pitfalls of your intended move to LOS.

Having had the experience of living in a new country, I have only one comment.

Go for it and experience it. Otherwise you will always suffer from the what if? syndrome.

Only advice I can give you is go with an open mind, open eyes and an open heart. Just make decisions with a cool head and not emotionally.

Good luck.

12-09-03, 18:24
Funny Thing


Since I started that investment club I've nary looked at a mutual fund. I can see that I've been missing out. I commend you on your investment performance this year and thanks for reminding me that mutual funds still exist! hahahaha

I went and checked out FSEAX (Fidelity's SEA Fund) and it went from $8.84 in April to to $13.42 in December. What a run! I can see you must have done quite well. This fund is not Thai specific but I saw that they own Siam Cement which I assume is a Thai company.

Anyway, I am going to add some SEA and non specific Asian funds to my watch list on Clearstation. It's a portfolio tracker that I rather like.


Sorry if this stock talk is boring everyone. But if you are in Thailand (or anyplace else where you can't really work much) then I would think speaking of investing is a good idea and a worthy hobby to indulge yourself in. You just gotta be careful and only risk what you can afford to lose. Well, sometimes it pays to be risky. lol

Thanks to all you guys, even the ones telling poster boy to stay home. It was all taken as good advice.


The Traveler
12-09-03, 19:54

LOL, performance was quite well, about 65% in the last few month. I don't complain.

Have fun and invest wise

12-09-03, 20:43

Mutual Funds are still going strong, I'm a follower of a adviser called Bob Brinker, and he has made me alot of money on my IRA'S, He call a sell signal before the crash in 00, and he called a buy in March of this year! I purschased a Mutual Fund call Dodge and Cox/ Stock fund! Purschased it at $88.00 a share / $20,000
it is now at nearly $110.00 a share! Out of the five recommendations each one is averaging over 25% without alot of risk. Every Mutual Funds are with sound companies!
There are safe ways of making money even in a down market!


The Traveler
01-09-04, 11:51
PosterLion / littleBigMan

Just cashed in a part of my investment with a bit over 100% gain in 20 months. Nothing to complain about.

Have fun

01-10-04, 18:15

Congratulations on your nice investment return, does that mean
you're back on the bike and out hunting?


01-11-04, 17:54

Good job!

I've closed out all my positions and am taking a breather, while coming up with a new strategy for 2004. In 2003 I did a few LARGE trades and made some very healthy gains.

Thank God because I now have my visa and will be moving to LOS on the 26th of January as I mentioned before in numerous postings on this section.

The last trade I made was on Sprint PCS. It is a real shaky issue these days and it makes sharp price movements between $4 and $6. My last trade netted me 7% in 7 days. I added an addtional 475,000 Baht to my nest egg. :)

Good luck to you and your investments in 2004. For now I am staying in cash and looking for some good opportunities. Meanwhile, I am too busy because I am trying to decide what to bring with me to Thailand. It's not going to be much: two suitcases and a backpack.


Bill Miami
01-13-04, 20:49
I am interested in obtaining a teaching position at a university in Thailand. I have a Masters degree in Accounting and I am a Certified Public Accountant. I have emailed in excess of 25 schools and have not received the desired response. I have seen other teachers post and was hoping a few of them could private message me with some advice and/or contacts.

01-15-04, 19:49

Visit Thailand and get a free Condom! Choice of colors too!


The Traveler
01-20-04, 23:16

yes, I was back on my chopper and hunting. Some pics of some prey in the photo section. Now back home and freezing.


Congrats on your investments as well. Hope you will enjoy your stay in LOS. Maybe we have a drink together on my next trip.

Have fun

Mr Z Man
02-01-04, 07:22

I'm not a teacher but I lived in Thailand for almost six years.

Here's the problem, do you speak fluent Thai? If not then, the chances of landing a job at a university are slim at best.

Most Thai university classes are conducted in Thai, only the very best schools maybe (8 to 10) in the whole country conduct the classes in English. If you want to teach in Thailand you probably can if you work for a private company like Inilingua. They have a website you can go to and apply. You are only going to make 40,000 to 50,ooo baht per month if that.

Good luck!

02-01-04, 19:12

Samus Aran works as a university teacher in LOS. He earns well too. Maybe you should pm him, he might have some info to share.

02-02-04, 04:10

I would like to know if anyone out there is using a wireless internet connection in Bangkok. I am looking at two different wireless connections: Axen and Hutch.

The Axen card cost 14,900 Bt and allows for unlimited connection time at 999 Bt per month. Its data transmission specs say: GPRS internet surfing, 8 channels up to 85.6 kbps, Modem 9600bps, 14400(CSD).

The Hutch card cost 17,900 Bt and allows for 300megs of data transmission per month for 1,480 Bt. If 300 megs are exceeded then you must pay .01 Bt per KB after that. Its data transmission specs say: 153kbps.

I assume the Hutch card is much faster than the Axen card, 153kbps versus 86.5 kbps, but I like the pricing structure of the Apex card better as it allows unlimited usage.

Does anyone out there have any personal experience with any of these two cards?

Thanks in advance!


The Traveler
02-02-04, 21:35
Miami / Tantrik

When I met SA he was working at an international school. Therefore no need for thai cause classes are held in english I guess. Just ask him.

Have fun

Bill Miami
02-13-04, 02:33
I would like to thank The Travler, Tantrik and Mr. Z Man for their input. I forgot I posted some thing here and did not come back and check for a while. Since the time I posted I actually have arranged two interviews at different universities and will return to Thailand in a week. I am going to try and figure out how to get in touch with Samus Aran. If anyone knows how please let me know.

The Traveler
02-14-04, 06:43
Bill Miami

easy to get in touch with him. Only PM him and maybe also drop a note in his "Samus Aran in Thailand" section. He was banned for a while due to his extreme point of view / postings and Jackson finally decided to give this character his own section :)

Good luck

02-15-04, 10:31
Hey guys,

I'm a online poker player. I get my winnings via an ATM card. I can withdraw 280 in the U.S max/day. What the heck does this mean when I'm in Thailand? 280 baht is not going to get me far - lol. Let me know for sure will ya - anyone.

Of course I need internet connection and downloading the gaming software on a public internet coffee shop is probably not a good idea - nor do I think I can download things on their computers. Probably cheaper and less hassle to do on my own. Any suggestions regard wifi access or just internet access in my apartment in BK.


Out dudes

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to remove the multiple periods at the ends of sentences. To avoid delays in future reports, please use just one period followed by a blank space at the end of sentences. Thanks!

02-15-04, 17:28
Uh... Yoga - $280 gets multiplied by about _40_ to get Baht. IF you cant operate on something over 10000B per day, you are living higher on the hog than _I_ ever thought plausible

get a laptop and a hotel with a connection

Joe Zop
02-15-04, 17:44
if you've got an apartment in bkk, you probably want to look into getting at least dialup or better still dsl, which is probably cheaper in the long run since phone calls in los are by the call and i've always found dialup fairly flaky there. i used loxinfo, who now has a specific bangkok dialup option called "gamenet" for online chatters, game players, etc. that might do the trick for you -- and it's pretty inexpensive at 5.5 baht (14 cents) an hour -- then add your phone call fee onto that. dsl starts at 1100 baht per month ($28) with a 1500baht start-up fee with variations for speed and number of hours.

02-16-04, 05:41
Joe & Dingy,

Thanks guys. Yeah, I don't plan on spending more than 10k baht per day. I have my wife/child with me, so they will keep me out of trouble. I hope, of course, to venture off for a two hours to the "gym" for a workout - lol.

Anyone knows of a place that is of suitable neighborhood for my wife/kid - will be 1 year. Wife is Japanese who is fluent in English, so she either needs a Japanese/English speaking mothers/wives to chat with. Kid needs other kids to play with too.

A neighborhood that is decent/safe enough for her to walk to the park/pool. Don't really care if it is like even 5 miles away from the massage parlors, in fact the farther the better.

Looking for a two bedroom apartment with security.


03-22-04, 08:47
LIVING IN BANGKOK: My Personal Observations and Experiences

In November of 2003 I posted my master plan for moving to Thailand. I received a wide range of comments from you all and I thank you once again for your opinions and advice. Now it is my turn to pay you back by telling you what has happened to me in the last seven weeks.

First I should give a brief recap of the events leading up to my big move:

1) I got laid off from my job
2) I wanted to write a novel
3) I had saved enough money to live in Thailand for at least two years without working
4) I fell in love with a Thai girl in April of 2003
5) I decided not to look for a job
6) I gave away or sold everything I own except my house and two suitcases. I packed my clothes in one suitcase and I packed my favorite novels in the other
7) I rented my house to a friend and listed it with a realtor that is also a friend
8) The centerpiece of my master plan was to fly to Bangkok and move into my Thai girlfriendís apartment and that is exactly what I did
9) On January 26th I boarded a plane for Bangkok and was living with my Thai girlfriend in her apartment on Onnut Road 24 hours later.

It sounds like a recipe for disaster, I know. But so far, things have worked out well, yet the road has been rocky. One thing I can say for certain, I am here to stay. Having said that, itís time to relate what has happened to me since I arrived in Bangkok.


Settling In

Iím having a difficult time remembering this period, and frankly, I think itís because it has taken me the entire time, up until now, to feel settled in. So what could there be to remember?

My girlfriend and I didnít know each other very well before we moved in together. I mean to say that we had not spent much time in the physical. I knew her for nine months before moving to Bangkok. But we had spent a mere 18 days together face to face, before ďthe big move.Ē The rest of our knowledge about each other came from telephone calls and emails. It is one thing to know someone from an intellectual point of view, but it is quite another thing to actually live with another person in the real, in the physical.

It will be difficult to give you an account of this relationship without some background information. And it will be difficult to give you the necessary information with an economy of words, however, I will try.


The Girl

She is a genius with a past, entering Thammasat University at the age of sixteen and dropping out with a mere semester left to complete. Why? Because she fell in love with a man from Japan, thatís why. It is not important (except for me) that sheís a genius, whatís important to this story is the man from Japan. They knew each other for three months before they became engaged to be married. This was three years ago. On the forth month he was arrested for smuggling Marijuana into Japan from Thailand. His sentence was five years in prison. She never forgot him, and in fact, she loved him so much that she attempted suicide when she realized that what had happened was a fact.

I know this information about him because she told me their story. I confirmed everything by reading her diary when she was sleeping. Itís a weird feeling to read love letters written to a man behind bars. She had been writing to him in her diary for three years, even though she couldnít send the letters because prisoners in Japan are not allowed to receive mail unless it is from a direct relative.

In one of the letters she wrote:

Dearest T,

I am in love with a man named M. I am planning to marry him but I still canít stop thinking about you. I hope one day you can understand it all and accept it.


All this is neither here nor there unless you consider the fact that this man, Mr. T, got out of jail and called S (my girlfriend), exactly one week before I moved to Bangkok. As I have said, everything is more or less okay, but itís been a rocky road. More on the later.


On Bangkok

I have noticed that the opinions of WSG readers vary in the extreme when it comes to Bangkok. There is talk of the pollution and the corruption, there is talk of the bar girls and the vile evilness of their deceptive practices. There is even talk of the deceptiveness of Thai people in general. All of it may be true. Some of it may be true. But it doesnít matter. I have found that all or some or none holds true in every country on this planet. I find Bangkok to be a wondrous place to be living in this modern age.

I have visited no other city to date where each day begins with the note that anything is possible. I have visited no other city to date where each day begins with the note that nothing is possible. For me, that is the allure of Bangkok! It is a city of dreams and desires (both fulfilled and unfulfilled), but either way, it is a city of dreams. How many other places in the world are still dreaming? Itís a rhetorical question I admit, but if you think about it, dreams are always best when desire is at the highest point. For me, I can think of no other city that has the desire of Bangkok. It is hungry, it is dirty, and it is corrupt. It is like a ***** trying to get out of the business. What stronger desire can there be than that? I ask you!


Playing it Safe

I think many of you might think it insane to move into a Thai girlís apartment like I did. But I can tell you that it is very sane. It might be the smartest thing I have ever done. Please tell me if you can, who could be more qualified than a Thai girl to introduce a person to Bangkok? And furthermore, what could be safer than to move into the apartment of a Thai girl that knows Bangkok? If you were to ask me, I would tell you that nothing is safer than what I did. I can tell you this because I now know it from experience. If you donít believe me then consider my logic. Most of the horror stories you hear about Thai women involves a farang that lets the woman move into his place. And the farang is probably paying 15,000 Baht or more in rent. WellÖ I think it best to believe that the masses are always wrong, I believe contrary to the machine, and for good reason. The average Thai girl is living in an apartment that costs somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 Baht per month! This saves you 12,000 to 13,000 from the farang price and it leaves you with an easy option, if you donít like the arrangement, you can just leave (which has already happened once, but I came back). Itís as simple as that! And that is why I recommend playing it safe. J


Making Connections

It is important for everyone to make friends and acquaintances, no matter where one might live. But it is even more important if you are moving to a brand new place that is completely foreign, especially if that place is a city like Bangkok. This is common knowledge that everyone knows. SoÖ this is another reason why it was a no-brainer to move in with my Thai girlfriend. She is a genius (now you know why that is important to me) and she is very well connected in the Thai and farang world. This fact alone saved my ass. The point I am making is that I have been using my Thai girlfriend to my advantage, just in case she is trying to use me for her advantage. I figure this way weíll be even and both of us will have gotten a good deal. More on this later.

Now that Iíve saved my ass, I am feeling quite low, degenerate, and somewhat evil. I knew full well what the assumed risks where for taking a Thai girlfriend, so I justified it all with the idea that all Thai girls are akin to thieves and liars. This is just not true, no matter how much anyone might want to believe it. But at the time, I did believe it.

The cat is out of the bag now, so it is a good idea that I forget about guilt and just continue with my story, keeping in my mind the full view that I am as deceptive a creature as anyone on this planet is likely to meet.

Where was I? Oh yes! It is important to make connections!


Finding a house

Thanks to my Thai girlfriend (and the connections she introduced me too) I was able to set myself up in an apartment on Chitlom Road for 7,000 Baht per month. Yes, you heard correctly, 7,000 Baht per month on Chitlom Road. The apartment is on Soi 1, just down the street from Center Point Apartments. The monthly rental includes unlimited electricity (air-con), all the heated water you can bath with, free laundry (1 shirt and 1 pant per day), and once a week cleaning service. It is located on land that is owned by the King and a French-speaking Thai woman manages the complex. The apartment is really an old house that has been converted into an apartment building, so itís a really cool place. Itís like living in an old fashion Thai house, which in fact, is exactly what it is. The main reason I chose Chitlom Road for my residence is the location. It is an 8 minute walk to A.U.A.


On Learning Thai

If you are going to move to Thailand then you should definitely learn Thai! Iím attending A.U.A at the recommendation of a German guy that I met. He went for 1.5 years and speaks and understands Thai quite well. My girlfriend introduced me to him and he has been living in Thailand for four years now. In fact, he is the one that helped me to get into the apartment I am moving to in April. The school costs 92 Baht per hour and the price goes down as your hours accumulate. It takes about 2000 hours of learning before the average person becomes proficient with the Thai language. At the rate of 92 baht per hour (forgetting the gradual reduction in the rate) it will cost me about 184,000 to become somewhat fluent in Thai. As far as Iím concerned this is a bargain. The other great thing about attending A.U.A is the women. There are tons (and I mean tons) of them everywhere you look. My Thai class has some hotties from both Japan and Europe. I am having a great time and learning Thai has become my new job.


On eeking out a Buck

Iím day trading in the American stock market using about 30,000 USD. So far I have made 140,000 Baht, but then I lost 16,000 Baht. Iíve stopped trading for the time being and am studying the market for the next opportunity. Iím quite happy living this way, even though it is a bit risky. Iíve been in Thailand for two months now and it hasnít cost me a dime. 124,000 Baht (my current earnings) goes a long way in Thailand. There are plenty of other ways to make money (teaching for example), the trick is to find something that you enjoy and just go for it. I enjoy speculating in the markets. One day I might be forced to get a real job, but until then, Iím going to have fun.


Keeping the Thai girl happy

It took me too long to figure this out but I finally figured it out. To answer the first question, the answer is yes, the Thai girl expects you to pay for everything. The trick is to figure out the things that make her happy so she doesnít sit around inventing things to spend money on. The other trick is that you have to understand that money is all important in the Thai girlís psyche. Money means family, security, and prestige, in short, money is what makes her world go Ďround. If you can get used to this fact and figure out what she really wants then life with a Thai girl is quite nice.

I figured out what makes my girlfriend happy and that is reading, cooking food, and playing with high tech gadgets. First I bought her an electronic dictionary for 3,500 Baht. She uses this for making translations from Thai to English. She freelances herself out to various magazines with her English skills. Currently she has a job doing translations for Image magazine and raked in about 6,000 Baht last week.

I am sitting here eating a bowl of chicken soup with winter melon that my girlfriend made yesterday. She is a great cook! Lucky for me I spent about 8,000 Baht building her a kitchen. We set it up outside on the balcony and now I have to watch my weight. So far, everything she has made is completely delicious.

In short, I am the bread winner and she is the housewife. Itís not a bad arrangement and I feel very lucky thus far. She doesnít ask for money for anything wild or ridiculous like some of the stories that Iíve heard. I hope this continues as it is for now.


Love Triangle

Remember the guy from Japan? I bet youíve been curious to hear some more on that subject. Am I right? As I mentioned, he got out of prison and called my girlfriend exactly one week before I moved to Thailand. This has caused some major friction in my relationship with the girl. As a matter of fact, I moved out for a week and lived in the Nana City Hotel until she finally convinced me to move back in with her. Itís good to be back frankly. I got to enjoy a week of whoring on top of that and she is cool with it. The other thing is that I am no longer paying all the bills. Before I moved out I told her that she needed to exercise her plan B, which is the guy from Japan. Now he is sending her money via Western Union. Last week he sent her 10,000 baht, which she told him wasnít enough. Thatís a kicker donít you think? J

This guy calls her on the phone every night and she even told him that I have moved back in with her and now she hands the phone to me when he calls and I talk with him for a while. I actually like the guy! Heíll be coming here in November and then Iíll get drunk with him. One of us is going to get the girl in the end. Iím just not sure which one, him or me. I really do love this girl but Iíll be damned if I am going to pay all the bills while she/we are waiting for him to arrive in Bangkok. Thatís why I think itís fair that he sends her money. I wonít be living here much longer though, because as I mentioned earlier, I am moving to Chitlom.

In Summary

Bangkok might not be for everyone, but it is definitely for me. For now, I canít imagine living anywhere else in the world. Where else could I live a life more complicated then the one I am living now. As the song goes, ďIím only happy when it rains.Ē Come to think of it, rain seems to follow me around. Thatís fine with me. Until next time, Chock Dee!


Joe Zop
03-22-04, 16:55
Absolutely great post PL -- please keep us up to date, as it will be very interesting to learn how your perspective develops over the course of being there longer. Glad to hear things are working out for you so far.

03-22-04, 17:03
gad - PL - you could write a good Latina Novella (Mex soap opera) with this start

The screen rights alone...

03-22-04, 17:58

I'm also very interested in what my posts will be like in the future. I remember reading the four or five stages that happen to someone that moves to Thailand. I can't remember what they are for sure but it seems that they go something like this:

1) euphoria
2) less E
3) even less E
4) not much E
5) a great big D (Depression)

I hope I don't work out that way. I don't have my life blood (read jugular vein) resting on the relstionship with my Thai girlfriend. Okay, I admit that I love her, but... I can also live without her. I know that might sound cold, but it is not cold from my perspective. It's just life, you win some and you lose some. The true test of character is how one takes the winning and the losing.

Trust me, I'll keep you and everyone else on this board posted. It's real life in real-time.





It could also be a Hungarian novella, a Polish novella, A Czech Novella, a Russian Novella, a Romanian novella, or a novella from any country in the world. This particular novella is coming from Bangkok. All the novellas are the same story. It's just that the same story must be written in all the different languages of the world. :)

But I'm glad to know that you have had some experience in Mexico. Nada es perfecto y todos es un sueno. :)


03-22-04, 19:21

Thanks for sharing your personal stories with all the board members. It sounds as if you're doing fairly well right now and have not limited yourself (option wise) which is important when setting up camp in a new land. Good luck and I look forward to more of your stories.


Jaimito Cartero
03-22-04, 19:44
PL, great post, and great story. It definitely reads like the beginning of a book that I'd read. You could sell it in serial novella format, and come out with a new volume every 3 months.

Many of us are somewhat jaded about relationships with Thai girls. Even though you may be pushed out if the Japanese guy comes, you know the score and are living and perhaps even savoring it. I would hope that the Japanese guys is over his drug couriering. If he was busted in your apartment with anything, I would hate to have to explain it to the men in brown.

03-22-04, 21:46

Excellent report on your situation. I'm curious about the Japanese guy, as you must be too. How is he going to get back into Thailand? They usually blacklist folks with drug busts. Or is that only if they are busted in Thailand proper? I realize you may not know the answer on this one. Just curious.


03-23-04, 14:02
JC and Tatoosh,

I don't know squat about Japanese law. But I do know that Mr. T can come back to Thailand because he told me his lawyer said it was okay. It's very strange talking to Mr. T on the phone while the GF is sitting in the same room. Actually, the whole relationship is very strange, but I trive on that kind of stuff. At first it was a bit difficult to deal with, being in Love and all that, but after a while I realized it would be better for all concerned to just chill-out and watch the cards fall where they may. Besides, I was at MBK today getting my mobile phone repaired when I noticed that I was attracted to about one out of every four girls I saw flitting about. Suddenly it dawned on me that I am in paradise, and there are many (many) fish in the sea. :)

To answer part of your question, yes, he was arrested in Nippon, not Thailand. Also, I won't be living in the same apartment starting in April (he will come to BKK in November), so there is no chance I might be arrested for contributing to a crime. I may be crazy, but I'm not completely stupid.

Chock Dee!

03-24-04, 02:31
Hey guys,
I'm just curious how much money(in USA dollars) do you think it would take to set yourself up to begin living comfortably in Thailand. Of course one would have to consider transportation, housing, visa issues, ect.

50 thousand? 100 thousand? more?

I spent several years in Asia, and about six months in Thailand, but decided to return to my job back in the states until I had a decent savings. After living in Asia for so long, I'm completely miserable back in the USA and would like to return overseas.
I'm not talking about retirement, but also working and possible setting up a business.
Whaddya think? Other suggestions in Asia that may be better than Thailand?

03-24-04, 03:58

Here is a good link to give you an idea. It describes three scenarios and gives you the monthly cost in Baht: http://www.philipwilliams.freeservers.com/costofliving.html

However, let me warn you, it is quite optimistic. But it is also quite true. You can set yourself up in Bangkok for about 12,000 USD per year.

But... as I say, and as others will also say, the money goes faster than you intend it to go.

Below is my budget for living, which includes my costs for attending A.U.A to learn Thai. I am living in a one room apartment without air-con or heated water. For me, it is truly a great apartment and I would be happy to stay here for an indefininate period of time. But I am moving because of relationship issues and also because of convienence (read previous posts). Therefore, my rent will increase to 7,000 Baht, but I will have air-con and heated water included with that price.

Because I will be living on Chitlom, my BTS and taxi and motorcycle taxi expenses will almost disappear. So in the end, my budget will remain about the same, roughly 43,000 Baht per month.

BUT! Let me tell you, as I mentioned before, the money somehow disappears quicker than you expect. I've spent 150,000 Baht in two months, or more precisely, I am spending 75,000 Baht per month. I think I can get myself down to a more reasonable amount soon though. I've pretty much been doing everything I want without regard to prices thus far. But now that I am to be attending school on a regular and rigorous basis, I think I will begin to spend less money. I hope so anyway. :)

Oh... one more thing. This budget was made for two people, me and my Thai girlfriend. But she is now being funded by Mr. T, so... I won't spend as much for food and cigs and certain other things now.

Chock Dee!


Rent 2800
Elec 600
Water 70
Internet KSC 400
Mobile Fon 1200
Motorcycle Taxi 1200
Taxi 2000
BTS 1200
Cigs 6000
Food 12000
Alcohol 8000
Laundry 1500
Thai study 6000
Total 42970

Major Marvy
03-27-04, 00:11
Does someone know how to take a TG to Angkor Wat in Cambodia? She has a passport, but says it might be difficult to get her permission to travel. Any advice?

03-27-04, 07:11

Take your TG to the Cambodian embassy in Bangkok and apply for a visa. You might as well apply for yours while you're there. It will save you from any surprises once you arrive at the border, or at least it should.

I believe the Embassy is located just past A.U.A on the same side of the street. Take the SKYtrain to the Ratchadamri station and follow the signs that point to A.U.A (American Alumni University Association).


04-07-04, 03:20

I have been thinking a lot about the same thing. I think what makes sense for me at least is to have about $100,000 in the bank and go to bkk and teach while I am there. You can use the savings as an investment and hedge against anything bad and can live off of the income from teaching. You won't be able to live in major luxury or anything (unless you get good enough to work at a company or public high school or something) but you can manage. In the mean time, you are in LOS and are supporting yourself.

Good Luck!

04-10-04, 08:23
If you budget 42,000 baht per month to live you will need more than just teaching. Many teaching jobs pay about 30,000 baht per month which would leave you about 12,000 baht short each month. Most of the guys I know are spending about 50,000 baht each month to live in Thailand and some are spending that alone without housing.

Thailand is a great place as long as you have money, without it it is amoung the worst places in the world to be. Make sure you have back up plans and money put away if you paln to stay long term in Thailand.


04-10-04, 08:33
Thailand is a great place as long as you have money, without it it is amoung the worst places in the world to be.

It is not only Thailand, all of Asia is like this.

I have seen Foreigners become drug addicts (Sometime with the girl, they are with) in Asia counties, and they are broked, lost their mind, homeless, and no girlfriend.

In this world, money really makes the world go round! In your own countries, you can get away with not spending.

Good Luck, everyone!

04-14-04, 15:43

I've come back to the USA now to visit family and to get a laptop and a digital camera. I was surprised at what little value you get for your money in Thailand for laptops and digital cameras.

I went shopping at Pantip and realized right away that what you get in Thailand for 50,000 baht is not near the machine you can get in America for the same price. So... I ordered a Dell (made in Malaysia, irony of ironies) online before I came back to the states. I also ordered a Canon S400 Digital Elph (4M pixel) from cnet.com.

When I got home (Oklahoma) my PC and camera where waiting for me. The same laptop in Thailand would set me back around 70k to 80k baht. I paid 52k baht for mine. I got the Canon for about 4k baht less than it would have cost in Thailand as well. Now, obviously the airfare cost makes this more exspensive than buying these items in Thailand, but I was coming for the family visit anyway.

On the flip side, you can get yourself a SCREAMING desktop at Pantip for 37k baht. I ordered all the parts seperately and then the shop assembled the machine for me and loaded it chock full of free software.

Here is what I got for 37k Baht

17" Samsung Syncmaster LCD monitor
2500+ AMD chip
512M 400mhz Ram
120G disk drive
128M video card
CD-RW/DVD combo drive
See-through tower case and power supply
Floppy drive
Internet keyboard
mouse (non-roller-ball (forgot the name of the technology))
Sound Card and NIC were built into the motherbaord

The monitor was the most expensive part of the computer (17,900 Baht), but darn well worth it!

Bottom line: Buy your laptops and digicams in America, but build your desktop at Pantip!

Now I am just jerking off everyday, visiting the folks and day trading in the stock market. I've made 42K Baht in two weeks. Life is still good. So far, I've made 168K Baht since I retired in Thailand. I know it won't always be that good (hopefully better!), so I appreciate the information about teacher's salaries.

Maybe one day I will try that (teaching English) for some supplemental income. Maybe one day (God forbid) it will be my only income. I will try to avoid this by following Warren Buffet's two rules of investing: 1) never lose money, and 2) never forget rule number one.

I return to paradise on April 26th and won't be returing to America again until November 22nd.

Hmmm... a separate issue. Somehow (and only God knows how), I got a visa approved for my Thai girlfriend to come to America. But honestly, in a way, I wish it hadn't gotten approved. I have no intention of moving back to America unless my situation becomes very (very) desperate, i.e. no money.

Well that is my update. I'll give some future updates when I am back in LOS.

Chock Dee!

04-14-04, 17:02

Good report and good luck.


04-15-04, 01:33
Is it difficult to get a visa to the States for the Thais? What are the steps? Does your girlfriend work, owns properties, or have a job? You have to have these for your visa to be approved, right? I have a friend, whom I would like for her to visit the states, if she can get a visa. Is it really that easy?

04-15-04, 17:54
PL - they say you go to LOS for PUSSY and go to Singapore for ELECTRONICS. (Thai duty tax is actually pretty high I guess)

Don't get it backwards. ;-)

(Singapore has cheap elex but rather high prices for "companionship" - just look at the singapore board)

Spidey - once they jump thru all the hoops... (no easy task for a US visa right now - I'm sure glad the Thai don't make it as difficult for US as we do for THEM)

04-16-04, 01:15

I visited Singapore once back in June of 2000 and I found electronics to be on par with USA prices. I didn't shop around an awful lot but I've been told that Singapore is not the shoppers paradise it used to be because as with all countries that pull themselves out of thirdworldliness, prices go up as the middle class is born.

I never did any mongering there either so I wouldn't know unless I had read the Singapore board, which I have. :)

I spent 2001 through 2002 reading WSG and traveling around the world to sample the goods. It was a great time too but somehow I am the kind of guy that likes to have a steady girl on tap. I had some great sex mongering but it gets old after a while for me. Well, not that old as I still slip in some extracurricular from time to time, even with the steady on tap girl around. I guess it's just the way us guys are wired huh.

But seriously, heed the advice I gave on building a desktop. I think anyone would be hard pressed to build the machine I built any cheaper. As a reminder, I built mine at Pantip, Bangkok's ultimate computer supercenter.
Think of it as a Tesco-Lotus full of nothing but computer equipment.



I applied for a fiancee visa and it was not easy. That is why I made the comment, "Only God knows how it got approved."

By the time I finished collecting all the paperwork necessary for filing the application, I had a stack of papers nearly an inch thick! And that was only for the application! After the application is filed it takes about three months for the Department of Homeland Security to either approve or disapprove the application. Ours was approved.

Now we have to collect another hoard of documents. There is a medical history and a police report among the plethora of paper work required for the "interview." The interview will take place at the US Embassy in Bangkok. It it then and only then that good 'ole Uncle Sam might grant us the visa. It is a LONG and DIFFICULT process. So much so that I hired a girl in Bangkok to prepare all of the forms for us. It set me back about $450 USD (1/4 the price of a USA based person). We began all this nonsense back in September. It is now April. See what I mean?

Well the good news is that the girl can come over for 90 days after all that work. Then you either marry her or send her back home, up too you! :)

If you marry her then get ready. You have even more paperwork to fill out and even more money to spend in doing it. I believe it never ends and that is why I don't want to move back to America. I've been dicussing this with my girlfriend so that she knows what I want. I'll be glad to take her there for three months so that she can see the place, I might even marry her (still undecided on that), but I'll be damned if I am going to go back and live that life again.

Well, you may ask why I went through all this trouble if I am not even sure I want to get married. All I can say is this: I did it because I could and for the experience. I am crazy like that and I got no regrets about it. I learned a hella lot, maybe even enough to start my own Visa Application Consulting company! hahaha :)

I've got one more post on wireless internet connections in Bangkok. I finally found something that is reasonable. For now, I am tired of typing and will take a break.


04-20-04, 13:52
PL - now you got me thinking - maybe it was KL with the cheap elex. one person I work with is Chinese with a husband from SIN. she swears by SIN elex prices but Malaysia might be the place. I do know that from reading the SIN board, the Thai poo ying make quite a bit more there than BKK.

04-20-04, 14:56
Can anyone give me information on obtaining a cell phone in Thailand for 4-5 weeks. I am interested in a prepaid phone. I have a Nokia with a SIM slot, can I buy a SIM card there fairly cheap? Are there locations at the airport? I'd prefer to take care of this at the airport before I head up to Korat.

04-20-04, 15:43
The topic has been covered in a big details. RTFF using the search function

04-20-04, 17:06

I have a Sony Ericsson model T100 that I'll sell you for 1800 Baht. It is a small phone that fits easily in your pocket. I just bought a newer model so I don't need this phone anymore.

You can get a Happy Dpromt SIM card for 300 Baht at MBK. I assume these are available at the airport but I have never looked. Just ask at the information desk. Say, "Where can I buy a Happy Dpromt SIM card?" If there are any available at the airport they should know.

When are you to be in Thailand for 4 - 5 weeks?


04-20-04, 19:05

Yes, they do in Spore. That is why the flock down to S'pore if they have the money to show at the border.

Just like they will do well applying their trade in the States, if they can sucker someone to take them there.

I believe that all hooking make money all over the world. It is an international thing, just like money. Although, it is cheaper for you, b/c you will convert your money from dollars to bahts. If you look at the locals, and how much they make. The Thai *****s are very expensive. Of course, there are the local ***** houses, that are local prices, and does not allow tourists there.

If you a chance to met a foreigner, who lives in Thailand, and work there. Ask him would he pay the same prices, or tourist prices as you would? He would tell you he pay local prices, or a little above.

04-21-04, 05:58
Poster lion
I arrive next week. I'm gonna just get a SIM card for the phone I've got. Thanks for the offer though.

One other thing, are there companies who can crack (unlock) a US CDMA phone so that it works on the CDMA network there. I've got a friend coming with that has a non GSM Nokia without SIM slot.

04-24-04, 06:50

Now you've asked a question I don't know the answer to. Well, I've only been there for two months and I'm not always very bright. However, if it can be done it can be done at MBK. Take the skytrain to National Stadium and follow the walk ways.

But I don't think anyone is going to add a SIM card to a technology that is SIMless. :)

I do know that CDMA is catching on in Thailand. Hutch is pushing a broadband wireless sevice there that can also be used as a phone. Their ads are painted all over the Skytrain cars. You can't miss it.

I arrive on 27 April and will be there until 22 November. Man am I ready for some papaya salad! Amoung other things. :)


05-18-04, 07:51
Although sex is international, the ladies I laid in Bangkok who had worked in Singapore all told me they were afraid of being caught and caned. We have to remember these ladies are Bangkok street smart but they are, in general, not international call girls. The "high class" Bangkok hookers look high class until you ask them to read something. They are "back street of naples" and, to the question, "where doyou go to, my lovely" the answer is, back home to Isaan to eat cockroaches and cold rice. They too hve their ntworks and some of those netowrks are better than others. Of course, Inland Security are tough: they do not want 100,000 Thai hookers clogging up their process. Let's get ral gents.

Peace & Pizzas.


05-23-04, 07:43

Here is a bit of inexpensive technology that can be of use to a variety of folks. If you fit all (or some) of the following criteria you might be interested in a PCT phone and a PHS DATA 64 (MC-6550) data communication card or a MOBILE USB data communication cable. First Iíll give you the criteria and then Iíll explain what these little gadgets can do for you.


1) You spend all of your time in Bangkok.
2) You live in an apartment or hotel that does not allow a direct line.
3) You need a mobile phone
4) You need internet access

I am the perfect candidate because I match all four criteria! The criteria that made me buy this technology was item number 2. I live in an apartment that does not allow a direct line to the outside world. My apartment has a phone but it is connected to the apartmentís PBX (or whatever it is called) and only allows me to talk for ten minutes before it rudely cuts me off. On top of that each call cost five baht!

The most important criteria is item number 1. You spend all of your time in Bangkok. The reason for this is that the PCT phone only works in Bangkok. I donít spend all of my time in Bangkok as I must do border/visa runs like most of the rest of you. But I do need an internet connection when I am in Bangkok. Hence, enter the PCT phone from Telecom Asia.

The PCT phone is a mobile phone that is also considered a direct line local phone. What this means is that the network considers it a land line. All the land line phone numbers in Bangkok begin with (02) to my knowledge. My PCT phone number also begins with (02) but it is a mobile phone so I can take it anywhere. However it only works in Bangkok because as I mentioned, the network sees the phone as a local phone that is local to Bangkok. Chi Mai?

But if you live in Bangkok the PCT phone is a handy addition to your technology arsenal for many reasons:

1) when combined with the PHS DATA 64 (MC-6550) data communication card or the MOBILE USB data communication cable you can access the internet for 12 Baht per hour (with no per megabit data charges). I recommend the MOBILE USB cable because it can be used with a laptop or a desktop computer. I originally bought the PCS DATA 64 PC card because I did not realize there was a USB cable at the time.

Installation is a snap. Just plug the cable in and Windows will detect new hardware. Select ďinstall new hardware from my locationĒ and insert the CD that contains the USB drivers necessary to allow your PCT phone to be a wireless internet connection.

You will get a rock solid 115.2kbps wireless internet connection for 12 Baht per hour. I have been using this phone for three months now and I am very happy with it.

2) Say you just need a mobile phone. The PCT phone can be your ticket as long as you remain in Bangkok. The nice thing is the price. All local calls cost just 3 Baht! Talk for as long as you like for 3 baht!

I use it for calling my friends and family back in the states. I just dial the LOCAL number of my long distance prepaid calling card and then go through the ďcalling card routine.Ē I pay just three Baht for the access and thatís it, viola!

If I want to call my friends on their mobile phone I pay just 1.5 Baht per minute. Shop around the Dprompt stands and you will see that 1.5 Baht per minute is a very good deal indeed.


I bought my phone and the PCS DATA 64 PC card at MBK. The phone is a used Sanyo PASCAL SM-801. It is old and it looks old. You wonít get any "cool points" for carrying it with you in style conscious Bangkok.

But if you want a cheap phone that allows you to do all I have described then you can pick up this phone for about 1100 Baht. I paid 2000 Baht for the PCS DATA 64 PC card. As it turns out, it was 2000 Baht wasted because I now use the MOBILE USB data communication cable. You can pick it up for 1000 Baht at the Telecom Asia store at MBK.

If you buy the phone used as I did and the MOBILE USB data communication cable, expect to spend about 2100 Baht. You will then have a mobile phone and a rock solid wireless internet connection at a very affordable price.


Recharging the PCT phone is a very bizarre process. You canít buy PCT prepaid cards at 7-11 like you can when using the DTAC phones. You need a PCT BUDDY recharge code that is supplied by Telecom Asia.

I wrote the code down and carry it in my wallet. When I go to 7-11 to recharge my phone I say, ďPCT BUDDY refillĒ, and then hand the clerk my recharge code. The clerk then goes to a machine, types in the code, and asks how much I want to add. I always add 500 Baht.

The clerk then hands you a paper receipt. It is very important that you keep the receipt because you will need it to recharge your phone! Basically, the receipt becomes your prepaid card and you must call your recharge phone number and then type in the recharge code that is printed on the receipt. Once you have done this you can throw the receipt away.

I know it sounds complicated but once youíve done it a couple of times itís a snap. And besides, you have a mobile phone and a wireless internet connection! :)


Jaimito Cartero
05-23-04, 14:15
Speaking of MBK, this trip was my first time there and I generally enjoyed the place. It has elements of Pantip Plaza, along with the nicer malls too. They have many small kiosks on the 3rd and 4th floors (and probably others), that have good prices on clothing, phones, luggage and much more. I had wasted an hour looking for good luggage at other places, and had the usual Farang rip off prices. (Start at 3600 baht, walk away price 1600). They started at a reasonable price (1900 baht), and would negotiate down to 1500 without all the crying and arm tugging you normally get. Plus the luggage isn't already damaged like places that pack up every night.

05-23-04, 17:43

There are two things (and only two things) that I like about MBK:

1) they got some great deals on telecommunication products


2) there is some great a-ss struttin' around the place. :)

But you are correcto about the clothes and the luggage. You can get that stuff there too. Arm pullin' or no. :)

05-30-04, 06:17

This is a picture from my friend's balcony. He's a big shot. :)

05-30-04, 06:22

Here is a picture from my balcony. I am not a big shot. :)

Just thought I'd give a graphic depiction of what views are available in Bangkok. Now a naked woman would make either of these two balconies just a little nicer.

Chai Mai?


05-30-04, 06:42

Did you say kitchen? What kitchen? There ain't no stinking kitchen until you install one on your back balcony!

Single burner stove (1,500 baht from Tesco Lotus)
Fry pan (400 baht from Tesco Lotus)
Aluminum table (500 baht from Food Stall Furniture)

Ah... Life in Bangkok is a fine thing. Where else can you build a kitchen for $60?

Hue Mai?


Jaimito Cartero
05-30-04, 07:41
What kind of SF do you get for $100 a month? One bedroom, studio? Don't bet on AC, is what I'm guessing. ;)

05-30-04, 07:53
Is that 4000 baht balcony near Ekamai? I don't mean to be nosy, it just looks familiar. Of course there are lots of views like that around BKK. Good to know you're still hanging in there. Are there any new VISA restrictions affecting you? Any luck with a job?

05-30-04, 15:01

I'm about one kilomet from Onnut station on Soi 77. I guess you could say it's the equivalent of living near the last train/tube station in any large city. It's not so far out to be in the suburbs and it's near enough to be in the city proper.

I havenít lived here long enough to know if Iím going to have visa problems. My six month multiple entry tourist visa doesnít expire until July 5th. Iíll be leaving for Malaysia at the end of June and returning for my third 60 day stay. This basically means Iíll have stretched my current visa to its limit.

In August Iíll begin the process of visa renewal. If I am granted another multiple entry tourist visa then I can last another 180 days. If not then I am on the 30 day plan. Which is not a plan in my opinion.

Iíve been attending A.U.A Language School and I plan to ask them for a letter so that I can apply for an education visa. This visa does not expire for one year but you must step across the border every three months. That is plan A.

One of the students Iíve met at A.U.A is into real estate. His company has offices in Hong Kong, Thailand, and New York. In other words heís a big shot. He told me it's not very difficult to obtain a business visa in Thailand. I plan to have a discussion with him to find out more information. That is plan B.

I will continue my Thai studies so the education visa should work for two years (my estimated length of the curriculum). But I am quite intrigued at the prospect of getting a business visa. It is always good to have alternatives. One never knows when an alternative might be needed. Iíve got 8 years left before I can apply for a retirement visa so I am totally open to alternatives. :)



You're a good guesser in all respects. $100 gets you a 6 meter by 5 meter studio with attached bathroom (the rent is actually 2,800 but the electric and water run about 1,200). There is no A/C or heated water. It was quite hot today. So much so that the shower water felt heated at 8pm. :)

I'm acclimated to the heat and it's not a problem. The only complaint I have is the friggin' ants. I get a really bad reaction when bitten by them and believe me they are lurking everywhere. I have not resorted to insecticide yet, but the thought has crossed my mind!

On the upside, I believe I am starting to build up a tolerance to their venom, and they do a good job of cleaning up the crumbs. :)

Chock Dee,

05-30-04, 15:08

I just got around to reading your 5/22 post. Thank you much. Very good info.

I'm about to start apartment hunting and have no idea yet what the "landline" situation will be. Glad there's an option.


Jaimito Cartero
05-30-04, 16:11
PL-You're a brave man. Did you have to sign a lease, or is it in your GFs name? I seem to recall that crushed cinammon sticks in the entry that the ants use will often make them turn around and not come in.

I had the same problem in Costa Rica, and that seemed to help greatly.

When I go to Bali in late summer for 3 weeks I don't think I'll be brave enough to get just a fan room. I'm addicted to certain creature comforts.

05-31-04, 10:05
Posterloin > Your level of english is very good, perhaps your native tongue, and i do enjoy your posts, however you appear to fit into a stereotype of the unwelcome farrangs here in Thailand. You live in a very low budget single room for thai's, with no facilities whatsoever, and are about to venture into obtaining a visa that is not valid for your reasons of stay. I can only guess why you might be living in such appauling conditions 8 yrs from retirement, and that guess would not be because you like the temples. It's because of these types of people (note i am not calling you this type, merely stating from what you've said you 'appear' to fit the stereotype) that the Thai government is hell bent on making life hell for everyone that stays too much in Thailand, they don't want these types of people here anymore, and are making it very clear with stricter visa's, spot checks, and even recently joint immigration and police raids in outlying areas of Bangkok, such as the On Nut vicinity, specifically targetting foreigners living in typical thai accomodation. I would suggest anyone who can only afford 40 GBP a month for rent should go home, the pussy is not that good. May i also suggest that a western style studio apartment, with satelite, furniture, kitchen etc, can be had for just a 100GBP a month more. Some types of people will go to absolutely any lengths just to get a cheap bit of pussy, including living in a shit hole. IMHO people like that should wise up, go home and wank a lot more often.
PL, its not a personal attack, it's just MHO of the stereotype that exists here, and based on what you have said, you 'may' fall into that category. I hope you do not, because these types give foreigners a bad name here.

05-31-04, 12:32
I swear to God. I don't understand the tone of indignation in Meaty's post about Poster Loin.

Some people live in luxury. Some live in poverty. It is nice to hear from everyone.


05-31-04, 15:04
I gotta stick up for Posterlion too. He seems like a great guy, and is always posting interesting and helpful info.

I made plenty of money when I was working for a US company living in Thailand, but stayed in a very cheap place myself. I couldn't justify spending the extra money on a nicer place, and was very happy and comfortable in my little 5000 baht a month apt.

Why would you take sides with the Thai govt? They've got to be among the most corrupt in the world. If you really live there, I'm sure you agree that a few poor farangs overstaying their welcome is the very least of their problems.

Finally, telling someone to "go home" is truly arrogant.
FUCK going home! Home sucks! That's why he's there! Let the guy have some fun..

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
Mark Twain

Samus Aran
05-31-04, 15:57

SA tends to agree with Meaty. SA will not get sarcastic but many of the retiree types who live in that On Nut area are not doing much but drinking, slobbering, and looking for the cheapest pussy possible. They lose to live in absolute shit holes. SA spends 5000 lives awayf rom the city and has a fully furnished place 2 floors, 2 baths, kitchen, washing machine. SA just did his homeork. SA lives alone and has a great job here and contibutes a helluva lot more than just getting uo chasing girls. SA wishes that many of these guys would pack it in. They walking dead and many are unhealthy and sad. SA understands why the Thai govt wants them out. USA govt does the same thing!

Samus Aran

05-31-04, 17:23
Yeah Meaty, what's up ?

Just because you and I as well as many others can afford to go upscale, why should we expect others to live the same way ?

If PL wants or needs to live on the cheap, what's it to us ?


Joe Zop
05-31-04, 18:08
While I don't disagree with Meaty's description of some of the farangs in LOS, I think a good read of PosterLion's past posts makes clear his reasons for being there and that he doesn't fit the classic stereotype.

I don't see that air conditioning, for example, is all that necessary once you get used to the climate, so why pay for it? I'd generally not care about a kitchen, given all the cheap food available elsewhere. I know I rarely used mine when I was there. I've seen plenty of perfectly acceptable 2500 baht per month places in LOS that aren't "shit holes." PL's also made it clear in past posts that he can afford a higher level place if he wants one.

As far as the visa stuff and the Thai government goes, the US or British governments and many others aren't exactly a joy to deal with either for people who just want to stay in the country because they like it there, for whatever reason.

No disagreement at all that there are some pretty sad cases hanging on in LOS just for cheap pussy, but PL's been pretty straightforward about his desires to be immersed in the culture and to take time to try to be a writer.

06-01-04, 02:31
Ok, hands half way up here, but only half way. I haven't reviewed this thread of the forum for months, i popped in yesterday, read back 1 page to get a general gist of what the topic is now, and caught PL's posts on appartments, which spurred my post. As i said, i enjoy PL's posts, yesterday was the first time I had read about his living situation and this made me post as i did.
Guys, the ones that live here, can vouch the bar areas are FULL of people who have fallen hard here in LOS, some of them can be found in the beer bar in nana, upstairs on the left as you enter, the 100B "Drink as much Chang as you can" bar, they get wankered in there then they go round the gogos, making a beer last 2 hrs in each place then they scour nana car park for there 500B fix, and they do this every day. The Thais are fed up with these people, in there flip flops, shorts, vest tops (way over the top on the stereotype now!), they are not welcome and should go home. I am not saying PL fits this category, but some of his circumstances fit it.
Firedick> i actually don't live in luxury, nor am i paid very well at all, but i live in a nice 2 bedroom house, with a nice kitchen and aircon throughout. I could be happy sweating my bollox off with a fan wafting over me, or i could spend the extra US$20 a month for the electric bill and remain cool. This luxurious pad (!!!) costs me US$162 a month, but the standard of living is far better, its also about 20 minutes away from On Nut, I'm trying to say there are respectable low cost options, there is absolutely no need to resort to ant infected cells, just to get cheap pussy.
PL> based on the support you have from the other members who know you more than I, i'm guessing that whilst some of your circumstances suit the stereotype, you do not, I apologise if i offended you. As a word of caution, do not get the business visa, its a non immigrant B class visa for the purpose of staying in thailand to conduct business on a temporary basis. Don't get me wrong, hundreds stay on them for year after year, it can be done, but if you have no money in the bank and are living in the conditions you are, and you get into any bother that results in them looking into your reasons of stay, you sound like you won't have the money to get out of it, so best not to get into it. If your studies are genuine, get an education visa, which i think (you need to check this, i'm not 100% sure) gives you 12mths in, with no need to leave every 3 mths, but i guess this depends on what course(s) you are doing. Don;t mention this topic to SA, i think he'd have a field day !!

Angus Magee
06-01-04, 12:29
I am a relative newbie when it comes to Thailand and Thai girls. I spent a week in BKK last October on my way through to Australia and liked it so much that I arranged a three month stay this past spring, March through to May. My view on Posterlion is that he is an intelligent and feeling man who has found a situation that he enjoys and has decided to explore it fully. Perhaps he is naive in the ways of Thai girls but he also seems to have the maturity follow his passion with his eyes open and harbours few illusions. Of the many posters on this board he is one of the few that I feel I would enjoy to meet when I again visit Thailand.

My own experiences with Thai girls is that many of the are hardened pros who are mostly interested in separating us farangs from our money. And yet inside each one is a heart that feels, and does what it must to get by in the world. I guess that you find what you are looking for in Thailand. Myself, I look for a person's heart where ever I go and with whom ever I am spending time, and I am often rewarded. I never make an promises that I can not keep to the girls yet when I am with them I am there as totally as I am able. I have come to see that this is the only vow I am really capable of making to any one in this world.

Good luck to everyone here on their adventures.


06-01-04, 13:47

You're welcome. I hope you find a place with a direct line because it is cheaper than my solution, but if you can't get a direct line I vouch for the gear I am using. If you end up getting the PCT and need some assistance don't hesitate to ask.



I haven't signed a thing since I moved to LOS. My existence is completely annonymous, except for my border crossing records and my ATM withdrawls.

Thanks for the good word.


06-01-04, 14:18

Thanks for the word of warning. I've heard those rumors about visa crakdowns as well. My worst nightmare is to end up like one of those you described. I've seen too many of them.

I'm not here to defend myself because I see your point. I've got what it takes to fall hard and I've got what it takes to rise up as well. I've done them both in this life, even without my new LOS experience. So... I actually do listen to posts like yours. They can be quite valuable!

But I will change my mind and defense myself on what I wear. :) I have three pair of shoes and only one of them are flip flops. I always wear long pants and I always wear an undershirt and a regular shirt with sleeves. I'm not saying I go for designer duds (I buy most of my clothes at the weekend market), I'm just saying I try to have a nice appearance.

I'm cool financially, that's why I live in a little dump, because I want to stay that way. My German friend is always telling me I remind him of a guy named Costeroni (unsure of spelling). He was a German speculator that made it big trading German curency after WWII. I'll be thilled if I can be 1/1000th as successful. :)

Cheers mate and thanks!


P.S. For all you guys that are watching my back, thanks as well. :)

06-01-04, 15:15

Your point is well taken. I, too, get a bit offended by the farang "bums" you see wandering around.

I hope I didn't sound heavy handed.


Jaimito Cartero
06-01-04, 16:03
I always wonder what Farangs living in Thailand do for a living, if they're not living off a trust fund or investments. As I would sit in the internet cafe's writing a report, I would see guys doing future trading, guys selling digital cameras on eBay UK and some other things that I'm not sure are on the up and up. (If you knew the guy you were buying a $300 camera from was in Thailand right now, would YOU send him payment?)

06-01-04, 16:26
Hmmm... I haven't thought about the Ebay thing.

Well, actually, I have thought about it, but I haven't made it to Chiang Mai yet to see what they are currently selling at the Night Market. Plus I gotta factor in postage and handling. :)

As for now I'm sitting on a long position that I've sold 35 covered calls against. It's been going perfectly, netting about 40,000 baht a month.

But it looks as if the cash cow is about to be called away. I've got 2.5 weeks until the options expire. I just hope the stock can stay below the strike price till then.

Otherwise... I'll have to surrender my assets for a profit. Damn life sucks. :)


The Traveler
06-01-04, 18:37

not Costeroni, I guess he was talking about Andrť Kostolany who died last year and got big by buying russian bonds.

06-02-04, 06:30

You are correcto. I am sitting at my friends house now looking at Andre Kostolony's book Borsen-Seminar. I spelled it the way my ear heard my friend pronounce it. :)

Too bad I can't read German. I'd like to get an English translation of his book but I don't think it exists.

Are you from Europe? I've been eyeing Nokia lately. The market has pounded it hard over the last couple of months due to it's loss of market share. It looks like an undervalued blue chip at this point.

Take a look at it and tell me your opinion. I think I am going to get called out of my position that I mentioned earlier because the stock closed yesterday just 2 pennies away from the strike price. It was up on news that the company is going to buy back $50 million in shares. It's a microcap.



06-02-04, 18:18

Okay Guys. I know this is a mongering board, but this is the "living in Thailand" section, and I do live here. We might as well just call it the "Life" section, mightent we?

Well fellows, if I am to be accurate in my reporting, I must report everything. Facts don't make a life and I know that all of us know that. It's just a question of whether we will admit it or not. That's all.

So anyway, my TG went shopping tonight and when she got home, this is what happened. Kinda beautiful ain't it? :)


sheís sitting in a chair
reading a Malaysian travel guide
I see her silhouette
from the corner of my eye

she flips through the pages
one by one
and says,
ďBaby, can we stay at this hotel?Ē

Itís a five star joint
tall and beautiful
so I say,
ďSure baby, we can stay anywhere you want.Ē

She gets up and smiles
ďHungry Baby?Ē
ďNot Really, Iím drinking.Ē

She wants to make rice soup
with morning glory
and salty eggs
and pickled mustard

I say, ďOkayĒ,
ďif you make it Iíll eat it.Ē

sheís squatting on the floor outside
on our balcony
preparing food
for me
preparing food
for us

and I wonder how Iíve ever felt
anything else
but love


Of course I can't let you go without a couple more pictures! :)

06-02-04, 18:21

As she was making dinner, the sky went crazy, just like me, a poor man... living in poverty. :)

The Traveler
06-02-04, 22:23

Kostolany is quite well known and he used to live in the USA for a very long time. This little guy was a very funny and wise man. He used to say that you should buy a few quality stocks, walk into a pharmacy, buy some sleeping pills, take a nap for a few years and cash in. He also knew that money alone doesn't make you happy, you will also need stocks, bonds, gold ....

Regarding Nokia : It took a sharp nose dive during the last 2-3 months and might be undervalued right now, but the reasons for that are more than just market technique. Most of the mobile phone models are outdated, low resolution displays and less features than their competing counterparts. Only the Communicator and the 6230 are competitive in my opinion. Therefore I would avoid to invest into that stock. There should be better opportunities.

Right now I keep a lot of cash. The high oil price, Al Qaida and the uncertainty regarding Iraqs future is keeping the markets down. When things will calm down the hard facts and economic data will come back into sight. They look quite promising right now, but I believe that we are not that far away from the top. The stock markets are trading expectations, but when expectations have to be lowered stock prices will fall. Due to that I invested a big stake into discount certificates. If the markets will move sidewards or even fall, these papers will still generate a decent interest.

Just my 2 baht

06-03-04, 03:04

Okay... Life with a Thai girl is no bed of roses. Last night I may have painted that picture so now it's time to crush those notions. I'm just looking out for anyone that might be influenced by my recklessness.

This little write-up will be more like the reports you guys are used to, believe me. It kind of reminds me of a current story that is floating around in one of the other sections on this board. Thankfully she isn't asking me for a million dollars.

However, she is acting a little disappointed with her 1000 baht a week allowance. She went so far as to call me Chinese the other day, to which I replied, "Baby, do I look at a picture of a fish when I eat my rice?"

This will be the last poetic (or not poetic) report for a while. I don't want to bore you guys to death.

Actually, I have this feeling I want to be useful. Any requests out there? I carry a digicam at all times.

Don't ask for pictures of my girlfriend or pictures of any naked pussy. As you know by now I am living with a girl. This makes getting a little on the side a bit dangerous, And I'm not about to be leaving any evidence around!




My girlfriend and I are both sitting in front of our computers
we are in different worlds
she is playing a video game called ďThe Simms.Ē
I am desperately trying to shut out the noise from her game

The characters in her game speak in an unintelligible language
And the background music
The bloody background music!

Iím afraid Iím going to go crazy
somethingís got to give

we sit at our 2 foot by 4 foot table
both of us on different computers
sheís lost in her game and Iím lost
trying to drown out the noise

I donít mean to sound like Iím bitching
but I suppose I am
for some reason Iíve become crazy enough to think I can
a writer

but Iíll never write a damn thing if I have to listen to this
forever and ever

now I think back to all the little nuances that were once

sheís never worked in her entire life
I used to think that was quaint
but now I almost resent it

she sleeps till 2 or 3 in the afternoon
then she wakes up
I bring her coffee
she cooks our dinner
we eat
then she washes the dishes

she gets on her computer and plays games until she falls asleep
occasionally she takes a break

she took one such break about an hour ago
I was reading a travel guide and dreaming about going to Laos
she comes over to the bed
lies down

ďBaby, when are we going to get married?Ē
I said I didnít know. Then I said,
ďWhere do you want to get married, here (in Thailand)
or there (in America)?

ďIn America. Even though everyone hates America I want to go there and get married.
Even though everyone hates America I want to become an American citizen.Ē
I made a grunting sound or something that sounds like a grunting
she continued

ďBut it seems like you are so happy here in Thailand.Ē
Then she got up and went back to playing her game

as she walked off I laughed to myself and thought
baby, youíve got a natural gift
for understatement

Iíve been working for thirty years
and finally
Iíve become crazy enough to be a writer
and finally
Iíve found a place and a time when I no longer
have to work

but I canít figure a way to break it to her

I watch her playing her video game
lost in a reality that is not reality
and I imagine the day I break the news

it goes something like this:
ďbaby, you know how youíve never had a steady job?Ē
She says, ďYes baby.Ē And I say,
ďThen canít you see why I have no intention of going back to America?Ē

And she says, ďYes baby.Ē
Then we both smile at each other
and the conflict is over

I donít think itís going to work
that way

06-03-04, 03:09

Thanks for your 2 baht. For now I'll just be keeping it on the radar screen. They just shipped a new model two days ago. Here is a little summary of it. It will be interesting to see if they can turn things around with this one. I looked at it and I'm not so sure, but I think that the stock will bottom soon and I think there is going to be an easy gain of 20 to 40 percent.

I am also mostly in cash (75%).



Nokia today announced that the Nokia 7610, its most advanced imaging device, has started shipping in Europe, Africa and Asia-Pacific. Nokia is the first company to introduce camera phones that have the essential ingredients for a complete imaging experience, including the ability to capture, as well as print, edit, store and send images and videos. These elements, combined with the slim and stylish design and a wide range of smartphone features, make the Nokia 7610 the most comprehensive camera phone available today.

The Traveler
06-03-04, 06:56

Nokia is always good for a surprise :)
But as far as I understood, you have to make a living out of your investments. Therefore I would go for security rather than bet on a single stock.

Good luck

06-03-04, 16:13
I NEED HELP FROM A BANGKOK EXPERT (Meaty, Traveler, SA, anyone)

This is an odd request for a monger board. But then I guess all my posts don't really seem to fit here so what the heck.

I need to find the Thai equivalent of Home Depot. I'm looking for a steel bar. It should be about 5 feet long and about 1.5 inches in diameter.

I'm building a home gym. After all I am a cheap-ass-sob. :)

It's for my pull-up station.

Can anyone help me out?

Thanks in advance!


The Traveler
06-03-04, 19:18

to my knowledge there is no such thing like Home Depot in thailand regarding variety of goods and size of shop.
I had the same prob long ago but the solution to it is very easy, look out for a smith at the smaller metal shops who also make those steel fences and other things. Ask your girl friend, she might know or should be able to find out. They will cut it for you or weld a disk at the ends so you can fix it at the walls or what ever you want them to do (chrome, paint ...). A drawing with exact measurements would be helpful too. Fast and cheap.

A few helpful words in thai

LEK = metal/iron (not to be mistaken with "small", pronounciation is slightly different)
TOOR = pipe (pronounce it like an long open O, not like the english word "too")
SHUUP CHROMIUM = chrome plate

06-04-04, 03:44
Posterloin > There are several HomeWorks Stores around, one in Wireless rd, one in the Siri Centre (near Seacon on Srinakarin) and one on the top floor of Central Bangna. I'm not sure if they'll have what you're looking for, but they are a general DIY superstore so you never know, theres usually someone in each store that can speak very good english, so if you get the tel number, (1133 is directory enquiries) you could call first.
Another option in Siri centre is they have a HUGE sports store, selling all kinds of sports equipment, accessories etc, not sure if that helps.
By the way, "'Bangkok Expert' like Meaty..." the way things change here in LOS i think its impossible to ever become a Bangkok expert, you may know a lot, but theres a whole host of surprises waiting to rain on you. But you got me blushing and feeling warm !!
PL, you seem a top guy.

06-04-04, 05:56
You seem like a bright guy.

Since you are already in Thailand, if you are decent looking at all you should be able to network a bit, and hook up with a nice and pretty Thai girl/lady who has a real job and education. That way you could actually stay in Thailand and live decently without supporting a lazy bargirl. Have you thought about this? I'm just curious. Good luck as usual with whatever path you choose.

06-06-04, 19:31
During my three week Tour de Fucq in Thailand recently, I once again noticed that living in Thailand sucks.
Two people I knew pretty well are dead, another one is in hospital on a no good insurance - bad, he is braindamaged after an accident and now in an upcountry hospital - he won't live.
NO condolences please!

Three girls that were hooking happily did so until recently. They are now pregnant.
One of them is the girl with the best hooters ever, Pooh. She said the condom broke, so what could she do?
Wrong fucking question!
"What could HE do?" is the better one. Get her to hospital for a morning after treatment, I would say. But Mr. Asshole didn't and now Pooh's life is well and truly down the drain.

A Dutch guy I met had so much trouble sorting out his visas that he simply left his business, or what was left of it, for the first passerby and plans to quit to the Philippines. As if there is no visa trouble in that State of Many Islands... As if he can afford to live his life of misery overthere...

But I'm fine, thanks.

06-07-04, 01:49

You might be correct that things are always changing and it is impossible to be an expert in Bangkok, but after reading a few of your posts I realized that your experience here far surpasses mine. I'm only a newbie here as I've been in BKK since January only. Before that I made six trips here for vacation purposes.

So keep on blushing for a while. :)

Thanks for the info and congrats on the anni.



Your suggestions have crossed my mind. But she is actually quite well educated as she went to Thammasat here in Bangkok. I've been to the school with her and spoken to her past instructors.

This doesn't change the fact that she's essentially a lazy girl though, but she cooks well and she keeps the dishes clean.

I wasn't planning on ever having a girlfriend again in my life. I've been pretty jaded from past experiences with love (if you will allow that term here), and this is definately going to be my last girlfriend. So far it's going pretty well. I've known her since April 2003 so we're approaching 1.5 years in our BF/GF relationship.

If this doesn't work out then I'm going to be a bachelor forever. :)



I don't know you but reading your posts and others like them always send a shiver up me spine. I haven't known anyone yet that got into "dire straits" like your buddies. But reading your posts make me think constantly of watching my back.


06-07-04, 04:37

A lack of insurance is the biggest cause of death in the ones that I saw depart to a more peace- & pizzaful place.

How is your insurance today?

06-09-04, 08:51

I currently have full insurance from Cigna. I consulted them about living in Thailand and they said I'm covered, although at a reduced percentage.

However, I am interested in information about insurance in Thailand. Are there any worthwhile companies or should I stick with insurance from the USA?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!

Thank in advance,


06-09-04, 11:05
PL > Personally i have William Russell Worldwide cover provided by my empoyer, but a good local option is Bupa Blue Cross, or the old CGU, now VIVA, both do very cost effective healthcare insurance for foreigners in thailand.

06-09-04, 14:42

I'll check them out on your advice as I'd like to find a local option.

I wrote a poem tonight and will post it in the BKK 2004 section. I know I said I'd stop posting poems, but in this case it's perfect, for the members of the board (mob).

And besides... I really can't help myself. :)


06-09-04, 15:19

The main trouble with insurance appears to be that lots of guys 'forget' to continue the insurance or think they can downgrade coverage because 'I didn't spent a day in hospital last year'.
I'm not from the US and I don't live in Thailand, but from what I hear, like Meaty says, Blue Cross is a good one.

Some guys got into trouble because the hospital didn't accept their insurance right away, so they had to pay the bills on a day to day basis and wait for their insurance to make payments (much) later.
How are you going to get to an ATM when you're on 'total bedrest'?
I know of one guy who had to leave his motorbike behind, go home by bus, get the cash, return to the hospital, pay the bill and get his bike back. It's just not funny.
It really takes some work to find the right insurance, but whatever you do: Stay covered!!

The Traveler
06-09-04, 23:30

I had bad experiences with Blue Cross, they just refused to pay. But it was an insurance for a girl who got sick abroad.

Try AIA, it's the best as far as I know.

Take care

06-17-04, 20:05
I have been reading Thailand posts for several months now and I'm think of making the move to the LOS. I have a few questions for the long term residents.

Can one rent an apartment (a nice apartment) on a turist visa? If so do they accept credit cards for payment? I have noticed several nice apartments for rent around 35,000 to 40,000 bht, they seen reasonable. Can anyone comment on rental process in Thailand?

Thank you for your anticipated help.

06-18-04, 04:32
Dojiman > Are you saying that after reading a sex board you are now looking to leave your home country and live somewhere you've never been before ?

You obviously didn't read the board very carefully !

35,000-40,000 for any apartment is way too much unless you have restricted yourself to only staying in a penthouse appartment. Its about what you want, but a 100sqm room, 2bedrooms both ensuite + guest toilet, maid room, kitchen, dining room, lounge, balcony, fully furnished with on site pool & security, in the area between Sukhumvit soi2 and soi 22 can be haggled over around the 25,000 mark, if its a one bed, kitchen, lounge, balcony arrangement you want with pool and security on site, costs start at 12,000 in the same area. Usually a months rent is paid up front as well as upto 2mths deposit, i've never used a credit card for such things, but you could always draw cash out on the card.

PL has some cheaper options :-) again it depends on what you want. Tourist visa is no probs for apartment, you're renting not buying.

May i offer MHO ? i will do so anyway, try a holiday first, 3mths is a good period to see more than just pussy dazzles, keep your options open back home, don't burn any bridges. Upping roots and moving to any country based on anything other than first hand personal experience is crazy.

Tough Love
06-18-04, 16:26
I concur with Meaty. I have been to LOS 4 times, each time had a blast and could not wait to get back. But the last trip lasted about 3 weeks, and I must admit, at the tailend of that trip, I started to get bored. Bored with the food, bored with the G-clubs, bored with gogo bars, bored with MPs, and yes, bored with TG's. I know it sounds incredible. But, yes, you can get quite bored doing the same thing everyday for 3 weeks, even just doing nothing but fu$%^ing around everyday!! I couldn't wait to come home but now that I am home, I couldn't wait to go back. I am bored here. Bored with the food, bored with no night life, bored with the stupid TV, and yes, bored with the AHs ( American hookers ). I think, keeping both places and not burn any bridge like Meaty suggested is the best option.

06-18-04, 20:05
Thanks Meaty,

I'm sorry, that was my first post on WSG, perhaps I should have introduced my self. I have beed to Thailand twice, my first trip was in 96. I spent most of my time on Ko Tao, about two months. I found Bkk to be nasty, acctualy I used the word post-apocalyptical in an email to a friend. It was interesting to see the development that took place in 5 years. My second trip was October 2001. I traveled with the intentions of photographing the temples of Angkor Wat. After spending some time in Cambodia, including Phenom Phen, I found Bkk to be an oasis. The BTS, Starbucks, and Au Ban Pan..Ah..yes sitting out on Discovery Plaza smoking butts and drinking iced coffee being scortched by the sun.. I think i'm still burnt from that.

I was think of moving to Thailand for a year or so. Base my self in BBK and travel to India and Nepal. Mongering is important, but pussy is not the only thing on my mind. In terms of an apartment, the most important thing for me is comfort. I think it would make my stay more appealing. A penthouse is not required, but a pool and gym would be very nice. I was look at hampton property to get an idea. Most apartments were in the 30,000 to 40,000 bht range. For me that is not too much more than I am paying for rent now in a quiet 2 bedroom apartment in New England. The apartments on hampton's site look truly luxurious. I did not know that I could find the same standard on Sukhumkvit for 15 to 25,000 bht. I will look around if and when I do decide to move to the LOS.

Thank you


06-20-04, 00:46

Not a expert but try Home Pro! Or follow Travelers report by going to a local welder of gates, fences, etc... for custom!

Good Luck,

06-20-04, 04:07

I concur with Meaty on his suggestion. Take a holiday first. That is more or less what I did. I went for two months (in January) and returned to the US to visit my folks in April. I've been back in Thailand since May and I plan to stay for as long as my funds and my luck hold out. Basically, that is a hopeful way of saying forever.

At the moment I'm plying around in Malaysia. I don't have any mongering reports to give but I can attest that living in Malaysia is almost as nice as Thailand. In some ways I could say it is even nicer. English is much more readily spoken here from my experience. The cost of living is a little higher than Thailand but not much. Of course I am living in the posterlion style (very cheap), but I'm upgraded from my Thai style in that I've got A/C now. :)


Tough Love
06-20-04, 17:05

Did you check out the President Group of serviced apartments ? I stayed at all of them and I found that if I were to stay LT in bKK, I would probably stay at the President Park S.A. They have an awesome gym and quite a few pools. It's also a short ride ( or a long walk ) to Emporium. And then, yes, it's close to Baron's, Orbit and soi 33 bars. I think they have heavily discounted monthly rate .

Check it out, then tell us how you think.


Hamilton W
06-25-04, 20:55
I'm looking for information on studying Thai language in Thailand

I'm in a situation where I'm allowed to take up to one-year leave-of-absense from work.

Please let me know about such programs and studying foreign language.

I've already taken a semester of Thai language, beginning, in the U.S., been to LOS three times, and I'm looking for a college or university in Thailand where I can study the Thai language.

I'm looking for all details, including educational programs, what it takes to obtain a student visa, and living there for the duration.

Considering that I won't have income during this time period and I'd be living abroad, 6 months (or 5 months or 4) may be more practical, maybe just one semester, if they're even on the semester system there.

Any other advice on this topic is greatly appreciated.

07-04-04, 04:07
Hamilton W,

Here are a couple of sites that might interest you:

http://www.auathai.com/home.html - This is AUA's site for Thai study in Bangkok. I can personally recommend this school. It is inexpensive and the classes are quite entertaining. I've attended 70 hours and I am now able to comprehend simple Thai conversations.

http://www.thaistudies.tu.ac.th/ - This is Thammasat University's website. It describes their Thai Studies program. Although I can't personally recommend this program, my girlfriend attended this university and is quite proud of that fact. :) I think their course descriptions are most interesting.

chalk dee tuk wahn,

07-07-04, 19:45
hamilton w,

from the mouth of my girlfriend: chulalongkorn univesity and thammasat university are mutual enemies.

i asked her why and she told me, "because we both think we are the best."

well... my girlfriend is very vain (as am i) but she does have a humble streak (i might not have one). at the end of her speel she did admit that she believes chulalongkorn to be the best (but she hedged and said, "the best for the rich kids, thammasat is for the people from the rural.")

i can understand her hedge as i would also do the same. i attended an agricultural universtity in the states and i think i got the best education possible. it wasn't harvard, but it can boast that a future posterlion walked across it's stage. :)

for the record, i'd say that chulalongkorn is a half notch above thammasat in the level of predigiousness. and that makes sense, considering that chulalongkorn is the oldest university in thailand, while thammasat is the second oldest, hence the vicious rivalry.


The Traveler
07-07-04, 20:30

I can only confirm what your GF told you. One of my friends - the daughter of a brigadier general - who attended Chula used to tell me the very same thing. Also my thai chinese friends decided to send their children to Chula, must have a reason. Maybe Old Thai Hand can give us some first hand info.

07-08-04, 13:44
Does anyone know if it's possible to buy a few cheap condos in Bangkok and live off the rent? I have some money I'd like to invest while living here, and would like to have some feedback on the idea. I am involved in a small business, but would like to use my extra money towards making more. Thanks.

07-08-04, 18:32

Foreigners owning property in Thailand is problematic. Basically you can't. Exception is a condo and then there is a rule where Farang can only own one if the majority of condo's are owned by Thai's. Some folks get around it by either forming a corporation that is mostly Thai membership, but you are the head, or by long term lease (30 years) with options for renewals.

On top of that is the problem about taking money you make out of Thailand. I have no idea how larger corporations deal with it, but as I understand it, unless you can prove you brought the money in from outside of Thailand, you won't be able to transfer it outside of Thailand once you are ready to leave.

Check out www.thaivisa.com for threads concerning property, bank transfers and so forth. They have discussed these questions many times there.


The Traveler
07-08-04, 22:08

To date foreigners may own

- a unit in a registered Condominium
- a building (as distinct from its land)
- a registered leasehold of up to 30 years for all types of titled land (and/or buildings).
- a company can purchase land and buildings only.
- more than 40% of a condominium unless in Company form.
- foreigners can own land being 49% in a company
- if you invest 40m baht you can buy 1 Rai of land in Thailand outright.

A 30-year lease can be a good idea with right to renewal to a freehold purchase, or a Thai company (7 PARTNERS) can be established with Thai majority shareholders. Foreigners only own 49% shares in a company with individual ownership of the foreigner holding land based on 39% ownership.

Thai property law can seem fairly restrictive as applied to foreigners, but it is really no different from other countries where speacial treaties are not in place. Thai law stipulates that foreigners may not own land in their own names; one has the right of ownership of buildings only. There are, however, four ways in which foreigners can legally own or acquire land in the Kingdom of Thailand ...


Option # 1 (for single gentlemen)
Meet and marry a Thai woman you love and trust, buy house and land in her name, and live happily together ever after! This beautifully simple solution is, for reasons we will not discuss here, the least popular option.


Option # 2 - Limited Company - recommended.
Foreigners, aliens, or farangs, can form a Limited Company and register the land as owned by the company. The foreigner can personally own maximum 49% of the company shares, and the remaining 51% must be in the names of Thai nationals, all of whom sign undated Share Transfer Contracts at the time the company is being registered. If any of them should ever give cause for concern, they are simply replaced with another individual of Thai nationality. This effectively puts 100% control of the company and its assets in the hands of the foreigner - the sole executive director. The Thai shareholders have absolutely no executive power within the company, nor need they be consulted over any issues at any time. (A Thai Limited Company must have minimum 7 shareholders - for example, one foreigner and six Thais).

A popular misconception which causes foreigners unneccessary concern is that such companies are owned by foreigners and could be exposed to imagined special (future) legislation by an imagined (future) extreme nationalist government with the intention of robbing foreigners of their real estate investments in Thailand. The fact is, however, that Limited Companies are owned by the shareholders, not their directors, the foreigners. As such, Limited Companies are Thai juristic entities subject to Thai commercial law, and any changes to legislation must apply to all Limited Companies, not only those whose directors happen to be foreigners. Thai law, both commercial and personal, is not so very different from legislation in most other countries, and it applies to all juristic entities in Thailand, foreign or Thai.

TH-property Inc.'s associated legal firm charges 22.000 baht for the establishment of a company with the minimum requirements for ownership of land. Such companies need not do any actual trading, and yearly taxes and audit fees are very low indeed.


Option # 3 - Lease - limited recommendation.
Foreigners can lease land on a 30 year contract which contains a clause giving the lessee first option on a further 30 years. The same contract, registered at the Land Office (Department of Lands), can be renewed every 30 years for a maximum of 990 years. The lessor's heirs are bound by law to honour the agreement, and the lessee can bequeath the lease to his/her heirs in a Last Will and Testement. The weakness with this solution is that the lessor can conceivably claim that the lessee is mismanaging the land to the detriment of its value, and can sue to dissolve the agreement. Of course, this point must be proven in court, but could be a serious headache for the lessee.


Option # 4 - Contract of Credit - limited recommendation.
Instead of purchase or lease, the payment for land can be registered as a loan to the seller, documented in a Contract of Credit, registered at the Land Office. The value of the loan is set at the registered value of the land plus the actual building cost of any structures on the land. The buyer's name appears on the Title Deed as creditor, which effectively prevents the registered owner (debtor) from selling the land before repaying the loan. The weakness with this solution is that the value of the property will at some time be greater than the value of the loan, and the debtor could conveivably buy the land back at bargain price simply by repaying the loan. This solution is very suitable in cases where the land is registered in the ownership of a foreigner's Thai spouse, and the house is registered in the foreigner's name.


Buying condominiums
A foreigner buying a condo must transfer funds in foreign currency from a bank account outside Thailand to a Foreign Currency Account at a Thai bank, opened in the buyer's name. The transfer of funds must be in the same name as the name that will appear on the final purchase contract, ie. the buyer. Use Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn Bank (f.k.a. Thai Farmer's Bank) or Siam Commercial Bank and be sure you tell them that the purpose of opening the Foreign Currency Account is to purchase a condominium. Transfers out of this Foreign Currency Account into a Thai Baht account or some form of Thai Baht draft or check to the seller must be made in amounts USD 10.000 or more in order to qualify for a "Tor Dor 3" Certificate, issued by the buyer's bank to verify that the originating funding came from outside Thailand in a currency other than Thai Baht. On the "Tor Dor 3" Certificate, it should state explicitly that the Thai Baht funds are used "to purchase a condominium" in Thailand. The department of Lands (Land Office) will refuse to execute the ownership transfer if the "Tor Dor 3" Certificate cannot be produced.

A foreigner can ONLY own a condo in his / her name OUTRIGHT. You cannot own a house and land in your name unless you invest 40m baht = 1 Rai of land. Bank's do not lend to foreigners; only Thais or Companies and you must lease, or have a Thai Company to own a house in your name. Just a note about buying Condos. ---Find out what the monthly maintenance costs are from the managers. Ask for this in writing. Avoid unfinished projects as they may run out of money or be over mortgaged. If very few condos have been sold in a building with good amenities like landscaped grounds, security Guards and a receptionist and office have the title searched but most of all someone has to pay for all this, plus the electricity for lighting and lifts. The total cost (often inflated) has to be divided up among the condo owners, which can be a lot if only a few units have been sold. Ask for an exact statement of maintenance costs and how they are paid. If the project has different size condos in the same building, large units will pay more towards maintenance costs than small units. If you are a legal resident you can obtain a mortgage but you need to check with your bank and credit. The best idea though is pay cash as you can negotiate but you must remit from abroad. In Bangkok look at around 25,000 -100,000 baht per sq m. A foreigner can only buy max 40% of a condo unit so if that 40% has been taken up and you are the 42% person you may find you are buying a lemon so to speak. If the developer owns a majority of units you may not like his manager but if the owners have majority votes than they can remove him.The Condominium Act has been amended. Now 49% of units in all condominiums and 100% of units in condominiums in a total development area under 5 rai located in Bangkok, all municipal districts and such other areas as shall hereafter be announced by the Minister of the Interior (which is expected to include rural Phuket) can be foreign owned. Funds used to buy a condominium & remitted from abroad are recorded by a Thai Bank on a Tor Tor Sam. Purchases of condominiums by foreigners come under the Condominium Act B.E. 2535 (1992). The owner of each condominium is issued with a certificate of unit ownership. The certificate also has a statement with percentage rights over the common areas of the building each owner has.

In short, if you are willing to take all that hassle described above and if you believe that it isn't wiser to invest your money elsewhere and use the interest to pay the rent, then the answer to your question is yes. But keep in mind that e.g. in the USA and UK, the standard rule-of-thumb for value/rental is around 100-120 times. In other words, if your house is worth $100,000 and in a prime location and good condition, you can expect to get perhaps $830-$1,000 a month rental income from it. (Of course, you have to pay taxes, rates, maintenance costs, insurance, agency fees, etc., so you may end up with only 5%-6% net return per annum on your investment property. In real terms, not a very good nor a very flexible investment. But that's another subject for another day.)

In BKK and Pattaya, however, the rule-of-thumb ratio seems to be more like 200 times.

For instance, the average shophouse/condo sells nowadays for Bt.1.3-1.8 million (a decent condo in BKK will easily set you back 2million and more), depending on location. Those same shophouses would rent for perhaps Bt.6,500 to Bt.9,000 per month respectively. Which means the purchase price is about 200 times the rental price.

I am also thinking about to buy a condo again, but I would solely use it for myself. If you are able to find a few cheap ones you might try to rent them out to thais, but that's a tough business. You can't read shit (got to make contracts, right ?), you don't speak language (do you ?) and you will find it hard to get your money or kick them out in case they do not want to pay.

Think about it.

07-08-04, 22:30

I would remind you to keep in mind that Bangkok has no laws protecting individual property rights. They have a big bank that caused there called the Thai Military bank that started the asian flu in the early 1990's that banks owned huge property investments after it's patrons could not pay off there debts.

The other thing I would remind you of is the tax situation there and how would your foregin investment be treated. Remember that the Thai government froze all monies leaving the country when the asian crisis happened in the 90's

It sounds like you are thinking right, though however I would like at putting my money in the many manufacturing and garment trade shops in Thailand a much bettor return and lower over head. Anything producing cheap garments and products will fetch you a handsome return. The west is still in demand of cheaper labor abroad the real estate market in that country however is still heavily regulated.


The Traveler
07-08-04, 22:42

wrong, thailand has laws to protect individual property rights and the asian crisis is finally over. Thailand was even able to pay the money back to the IMF before it was due. Anyway, no bank will lend him any money so they are not part of the game.

BTW, I owned a condo during the asian crisis (which was in 1996 not early 1990's) ands wasn't harmed by anyone.

07-09-04, 00:45
Hmm, I guess I got a D+ then. :(

07-09-04, 16:12
Hamilton W,

You're welcome. Thammasat has two locations, one near Khoasan Road and the other is way north near the airport. I can pretty much assure you that you would not want to attend classes in the north branch. I know I wouldn't.

I think you'll make a good choice with Chula. I wish you much luck in your endevours.



All I can say is wow! You must be a lawyer or something. :)

If I ever become insane enough to buy a condo in Thailand I am going to want to drink some beers and discuss the matter with you first.

Thanks for taking the time to post all that good info.


07-09-04, 17:42
Foreign ownership of real proerty is limited to condominium projects wtih a majority Thai ownership. There are no underlying claims to the land on which the project stands. The regulations have changed three times in the last year regarding the property rights, although existing owners have not been threatened to lose anything.

Ownership of land is only possible through a Thai corporation which may be 49% owned by a foreigner, except if the land is to be developed as a house building business. In that case the foreign ownership requirement is less. A foreigner may hold a 30 year renewable lease on such land, although there is a controversy surrounding the survivorship of such leases. You may also own a mortgage on a piece of property.

My land holdings in Krabi province follow that model and are legal in all respects. The big issue here is that the laws governing such ownership are subject to frequent change.

The Traveler
07-09-04, 19:05

I have heard that there are a few limitations regarding money transfers but I never experienced any. If you send any money to thailand just keep the savings book and declare every amount above 10.000 baht brought in cash at arrival at customs. Might save you a lot of problems but I was never asked for it when sending any money to Singapore or back home.

The Traveler
07-09-04, 19:11

something :)

I just made my homework. I used to own houses and condos in Naklua, Pattaya, Rayong, Aranyaprathet, BuriRam Sa Kaew and Sakhon Nakhon from the mid 80's till the late 90's so I have been through all that shit.

Another advice : Anybody who intends to do any kind of investment or business in thailand should hire two different lawyers who do not know about each other. Copy every document so that their address, phone number and so on can't be seen and let them check each other. This should give you a bit more safety. Many of the thai lawyers can't be trusted. You could also ask your embassy for a list of trusted lawyers.

07-10-04, 10:44
Thanks for all the great info. I've been looking at condos for myself mostly, now that I'm setting up a small business here, and just wondered where I could put some extra money to maintian a profit . Maybe Ill back off on the rental idea, and just buy a mid-priced one for myself. THanks again.

Bye the way I noticed the city is much more "Dead" at night than I've ever seen it in the past few years. The early closeing times killed a few of my nights for sure.

07-12-04, 22:39
july 12, 2004

howdy all,

i think i might take a diary approach to posting on wsg for a while. if it gets too boring or ridiculous i'm sure ya'll will holler at me 'til i stop.

the reason for this new approach is because i am living in thailand and i've got more to talk about than video games and the 3f procedure for sexing women. in a nutshell, i think it might be a good way to actually sound authentic. i've got one more reason as well, (okay, maybe two), i've got nothing better to do at 3am and i like to hear myself type. so sue me!


a sobering thought

don't get me wrong but this thought is about the picture section in thailand. you gotta know that i like to take a peep at that area from time to time. hell! i've even beat the monkey while oogling over some of them pics. but if you read my post about my girlfriend logging on to wsg just the other day then maybe you'd be interested in what she had to tell me about it.

first thing, the way she went about reading this forum is living proof of the laziness of the thai people. on the other hand, i am sure there are many people of other races and nationalities that go straight for the pictures and don't wanna read either. so for the record i didn't bash the thai race, i bashed all races.

but here is the crux, and this is what my girl said to me about the picture section. and believe me i do vouch that she looked at it in full. she looked at it for so long that i retired to the bed because i had seen one naked ass too many. such is life, anything can become morose and boring.

but back to the point and it is quite chilling. she recounted five news reports in the last three years where a thai girl committed suicide after seeing her naked picture on the internet.

so am i asking you to stop posting pics of naked women from thailand on the net, no. i am guilty of it myself. but maybe you could at least edit out the facial features, god knows it might save a life, and at the very least, (and this is a little phucked), someone else might get to phuck her.


today was an intersting day. i got up and made myself two soft boiled eggs and some toast. it was damn tasty i must admit. but making eggs and toast is nothing to brag about. boil water, throw the eggs in for three minutes and slap some bread in the toaster, piece of cake.

as i said, breakfast was tasty, but there was a phucking red ant on my toothbrush that bit me on the lip and my lip ballooned in to something unbelievable. i missed my thai lessons today because of that little mishap. maybe i should move to a more upscale local? :)

i sat around and played freecell all day during my affliction. i can report that i think i'll be able to play this game as good as my girlfriend someday. god knows if i will ever be able to speak thai. that will be another story in the distant future because i am not even close to giving up.

after about 60 games of freecell my girl and i decided to go out. we headed to phantip first thing to buy some pirated software but the local authorites have been cracking down as of late and there were no sellers. so if you are a supply side economist you can be assured that there was no demand today for pirated software, simply because pirated software was impossible to buy.

after phantip we had dinner at a corner hole-in-the-wall: som tom puplara, lab pla duk, and neu yang. es muy perfecto para mi!

we caught the skytrain to sala deang and then caught the bangkok metro down to hua lampong (the train station). we screwed around at khaoson road for a couple hours. we picked up two priceless books while there: "chuang tzu" and "the prophet" by kahlil gibran.

after that we went up to soi freeman on silom. i've got nothing against gays but this is the place i was talking about when i turned up an air at my gal and forced her to see nana. it was a tit for a tat thing. i'm actually glad i did it too because after the freeman show she asked me if i wanted to go to another gogo bar and i said chaiiiiiii. :)

the gogo was very sad though, late night, nothing but the fatties left. i don't say that becuase i wanted to see nothing but hot shapely cunts, even thought hot shapely cunts is all i really wanted to see. i say that just because it was phucking sad!

all in all it was a good day, save the phucking ant bites. tomorrow i will go to aua and continue to try and learn thai.

posterlion out...

chalk dee tuk wahn

Hamilton W
07-13-04, 04:40

I agree with you about the picture section. Of course, I'm a little guilty of it because I posted one girl from Thialand in that section. Of course, I blocked out the face, too much so in fact that some people complained that I over-blocked.

As a Regular member, still waiting to be upgraded, I wanted to delete the pictures. All it takes is to edit/delete post, but regular members don't have editing privilages. So, my only choice was to "report to moderator" and asked the moderator to delete them. I got a response a few days later that since the face was fully covered, and he didn't want to take the time to delete them, I was told to just leave it. Since then, I haven't posted in the photo gallery. But like you, I am guilty in that I'm subscriber notified of new updates and view the pictures, and sometimes even comment on them.

Part of the reason I don't feel good about posting the pictures is because I'm also a photographer on the side and I don't post images of my subjects without their knowledge and prior conscent. I justified my one posting by blocking out the face, which was so big, it looked like a big white bubble over the head which, as mentioned previously, was complained about. One prominant member here even offered to provide me with some blur software.

On one of my trips to Thailand, I wanted to take a picture of a girl, simply a casual image, outdoors, and fully clothed. She refused to let me. She claimed that there were rumors going around that farangs take pictures of the Thai ladies, places their faces on the naked bodies of other women posing in leud positions and having sex, and put them on porn sites (this seemed to be even more disturbing because it was portraying them in acts they didn't participate in). So the real careful girls aren't letting their photos being taken at all.

Of course there's far more than just this web site

I was a bit concerned that I've been reading on this forum that some guys were sharing the images here with Thai girls, and that one was sited in an internet cafe showing them to a Thai girl he was with. Others were logging in on their laptops telling girls they saw them on this site (as if they should feel good that it's free advertising).

In case many of you don't already know, I know this because I subcribe to updates by email from new postings, so clicking on the photo will not display the image unless you're logged in. Jackson recently changed it that only logged in active members may view the photos. This, I think, is significant protection of the ladies viewing the images, as they would have to join this web site, and how many of them are going to do that? So, members here really shouldn't even be mentioning this forum to the Thai girls.

The last time I was in Thailand, I took pictures of every girl I was with, about 75% of them nude, and couple of them in doing something to me. In most cases, the subject about putting the pictures on the internet came up, and I promised them I wouldn't, so I feel an obligation to keep that promise, even if the faces are edited out. That's just me though and I'm not going to try to have that section closed down though.

I didn't know about Thai girls committing suicide after seeing their pictures posted on the internet, but it's not suprising. A lot of these girls keep what they do secret from their parents, siblings, and even their close friends. Some are very emotional and unstable, so I could understand it happening. Of course if I lived there and read the BKK Post cover to cover daily, I'm sure I'd be see cases. I will say that I do agree with Posterlion to at least protect their faces. I was a bit parenoid and covered the eyes, nose, mouth, even the ears and then some, but it's probably a good idea to blur the entire face or cover more than just the eyes.

Another thought, since we're on this topic, I really have no idea to chase down someone I see in the photo gallery. There's so many beautiful ladies there, in so many settings, with different characteristics. Also, what you see in a photo may not appear the same in person, and you might not have wanted the person had you spotted the same individual on your own.

In some of the cases, people give the name, location, and dancer number as soon-to-travel punters want to track down the subject at hand. Personally, even though I know these are working girls, I really don't care to perpetuate the cause.

Why grab the big listed blue chips when there's so many hidden treasures?

One more thing. I wonder if the Thai girls have an internet forum somewhere where they talk about their customers. Who has a "good heart", who's the bad man, who's stingy, which Asian man gave them 5,000 Baht, and what size we are.

07-13-04, 14:44
Dana and others: Please check out the above site and if you are in Pattaya on a wekend, do check them out.


One gets one good solicitor, not two. I noticed The Traveller could not answer your question without boasting about how many condos he owns in a string of Thai towns. Sad sad guy.

Anyway: once you get a good solicitor, s/he sets up a company with a board of directors, all of whom subsequently retire, leaving you as the last one and owning the whole pile. Without corporate connections or some similar fall back, I don't know how you could find a good and trustworthy solictor here. This board would not be the place to look.
If it is any red light to you,. a guy at a terminal here is preparing an article: Condominium Terror in Thailand".

No doubt horror stories abound. I have seen travel agents and other "businesses" on sale in awful locations and any price would be a rip off. Also, any European wil tell you that the standard of building work, etc here is pure shit. The guys have neither the tools nor the training. A real Buyer Beware area, I imagine.

Anyway, good luck and I hope this small piece helps

The Traveler
07-13-04, 20:41

Maybe I should have expressed myself more clear. Guessed you might ask me if you intend to invest at the same places. I told you where I used to own property for the following reasons :

Most farangs and expats prefer to buy property at the common tourist places like BKK, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and Phuket. These places are often overpriced. If you like to like to stay close to Pattaya for example I would point out to Sattahip, Rayong or Chonburi instead. You get much more value for your hard earned money and you are still close enough to the action. If you live there you won't act like a tourist who feels attracted by bars and gogos every day. BTW, those places have their own nightlife.

Some guys also like to buy a house for their spouse or intend to build it for her. The families usually live in Isaan and own some land there. In the rural areas they often prefer houses made of wood instead of concrete/stone. It's cooler and easier to move the house to a different place. But there are restrictions about moving wood in thailand. So if you might intend to buy a wooden house somewhere and move it to the land of your spouse, you got to know where you can do it without any trouble.

I know the regulations, which differ slightly, at the mentioned places and could be of help. It was also a hint to look at alternatives like Naklua instead of Pattaya.

It all depends what's up your mind. :)

07-14-04, 17:09

I consulted my GF on this and her opinion (which makes absolutely perfect sense) is no.

"Prosititute will use the internet for writing love letter (using a translator) to ask for money. Using the internet for any other reason would be a waste of time."

Think about it. Why would a prostitute want to talk about the size of a mans penis on the internet? It would be a complete waste of her time. Every moment she spends on the internet after writing her love letters (money requests) is time that she could be out on the street (in the mix) trying to hook up with her next river of cash.

A prostitute would probably never reveal information about the men she knows that have big hearts. After all, these are the men that feed her and bye new motorcycles for her family. I can't imagine a Bar Girl being that stupid. I've never met a bar girl that has a low IQ when it comes to cash.

It's like they have a degree from Thai Baht University. :)



P.S. On the other hand, who knows? I don't. Anyone out there ever see a Bar Girl on an internet forum talking about their customers?

07-14-04, 17:26

At the end of June I caught a thai girl (obviously she was a bargirls) inside a internet cafe not far from Rachadamri Sky train station, chatting on bangkokchat about their customer and this kind of stuff.
I asked her about how many bargirls she knows on the chat and she told me that she is in touch with almost 10 bargirls with whom she discuss many topics (including customer) on bangkok chat (obviously in the prive room).

She gave me her phone number and as soon as I will be back in Thailand in August to re-start working (now I am on holyday in Italy) I will call her and I will post more details.



07-14-04, 17:41
Da Traveler,

If I were going to buy real estate in Thailand, I think I'd do it exactly as you did, namely, buying in places near the ports of call without the price of being on the port. This makes perfect sense to me. It is a common practice in California.

After all, I am a man and my little brain speaks very loudly sometimes, like the other night when I did the naughty with some strange. It is wise to put yourself in a position that will keep you out of the position (missionary or doggie or otherwise) because anyone that has had a full wallet and a free reign would surely attest to the fact that an easy Wanita is addictive. :)

And oh yeah... I almost forgot. I am practically chinese. I eat rice and look at pictures of fish on the wall. Does this mean I am a cheap charlie? That's up to you. It won't matter to me what you think becuase right and wrong are all part of the same thing.

Just my two Baht.

Hmmm... I've noticed you mixed up in many a conversation with apparent foes. I think I have seen your point but it's been made. It shouldn't matter any more. :)

Best Regards,

07-14-04, 18:54
Scotch is an age old remedy
for agony
if it were not so then
are there so many cured
but afflicted

and I donít know much about

the girls they come
the girls
they go

and in between the beers
and the scotch
I believe Iíve seen
something near
or close
to the truth

but Iím still throwing the ice in the
topping it off with the spirit
(or the girl)

for the day
Iím empty

like an unfilled
all alone
on a shelf

for those of you that are

I give you one of Lorcaís
best lines

ďAgony, always agony...Ē

Maybe Iím just a kindred
but if you were to ask me
I would say

Mr. Lorca knew a little
or about
the truth

and if
you donít believe him
or if
you donít believe me

then write me a letter
and tell

how did you feel

when your face
the sun.

Hamilton W
07-15-04, 06:21

I was only joking when I was talking about


Of they don't have something a forum to discuss us. I was making a joke of what the reverse would be like.


07-15-04, 11:22
Hello friends!

I'm a spanish citizen who is interested in Thailand, specially Pattaya. I find this place really exciting,specially for the great quantity of girls and bars.

How much is to live in Thailand for 1 month?

How much is to rent a flat or appartment?

Are the *****s cheap or costly?

Is good the food?

Thanks you for the information.

The Traveler
07-15-04, 21:16

At first please take the time to read at least a tiny bit of the forum.

How much is to live in Thailand for 1 month ?

Depends on your needs. Many Thais manage to stay on a few thousand baht, others might need a few hundred thousand.

How much is to rent a flat or appartment?

Again depends on your needs and on size and location.
Simple rooms without window or air can be had for 1500-2000 baht, a "normal" room with bathroom around 4000-5000, an OK appartment around 15.000 and a good appartment 50.000 and up. No limits.

Are the *****s cheap or costly?

Again depends on your needs. At soi 6 you might have a ST for 600 all included. A beach road freelancer might go for 200-300 (but I guess you don't want these) or 500 ST (better quality). Bargirls will charge you 500-1000 ST and gogo girls 1000-2000 ST. If you like LT always add 500 as a guideline.

Is good the food?

Again, depends on your needs. I think it's the best food available and cheap as well. But I know guys that need their farang food on a daily basis.

Again, please read the forum first. Use the "search database" function and if there should still be an unanswered question feel free to ask (but a bit more specific if possible)

07-16-04, 19:08

Last night ended with a couple of posts in the picture section of WSG. I finished off 1/2 bottle of 100 Pipers before I made those posts. I was in a very good mood.

As I fell asleep my GF was playing a game of pool on the computer. She is a game freak (much like SA claims to be). I woke at 6am to the sound of a break. My head was still muddied and I winced a bit from the effects of dehydration. I looked toward the computer and there she was, just as she had been before I fell asleep, still playing pool on the computer.

It didn't shock me one iota. I'm used to the scenario by now. It is part of who she is just as drinking and writing inane BS is a part of who I am. I looked at the window next to the bed. It faces east and I could see the first light shining through. I just read Hemmingway's "True At First Light", so I woke in full force, pulled the blind and saw a magnificent sight. Please find the picture below. Bangkok is much like Texas in that the sunsets and the sunrises are muy bueno.

I thought of Hemmingway's preface for his book as I scrambled around the room looking for my camera. He said:

"In Africa a thing is true at first light and a lie by noon and you have no more respect for it than for the lovely, perfect weed-fringed lake you see across the sun-baked salt plain. You have walked across that plain in the morning and you know that no such lake is there. But now it is there absolutely true, beautiful and believeable."

My dear Hemmingway, may you rest in peace sir.

After taking the pics I made some toast. Yes I actually bought a toaster two days ago so I could have soft-boiled eggs in a glass and toast for dipping. We ate the toast and afterward my Gf was quite tired. I saw her to sleep and then took a shower and then began to read "The Da Vinci Code". It's a book my Gf read last week and she has been pressuring me to read it so that we can have a conversation about it. She's intrigued with all the Catholicism and wants to undersand this religion from the West.

After reading I fell back asleep being that I was still quite hung over and awoke again at 2pm at which point I dressed and made out for AUA for a couple hours of Thai classes.

After class I phoned home and said I'd be stopping for a couple to three beers at Soi Nana. I drank them gingerly and then headed home where I now sit typing all this stuff, from me to you.

Included is a stupid poem about buffets and bar girls. I hope you enjoy it.




it has been said by the men at the
you can take the girl out of the bar
but you canít take the
out of the girl

while it may be true
you canít take the
out of the girl

there is another way to
the same thing

you can take the man out of the buffet
but you canít take the
out of the man

once he has
he will continue
to do

The Traveler
07-17-04, 09:34
Contracts in Thailand

animated by Domino's last posts in the Pattaya section and the cut out page with main points in doing a due diligence check if you intend to buy property in thailand, I like to point out, that you should insist on having ONLY a contract in english signed.

Regarding to thai law every contract in any language is valid in Thailand, BUT if there is a thai version, ONLY the thai version is valid. If a standard contract will fit your needs than that might be your choice but as soon as there are any additional agreements insist on having only an english version signed.

Soi Mike
07-20-04, 03:56
Poster Lion:

I like your postings and I hope to see your book written and published one of these days, who knows?

I like your sense of adventure and wish I had more guts to undertake a similar affair. Living here in US is very mundane and routine as you may know, and I recall my few days/weeks in Thailand with great fondness. It is by far the most exotic land on this planet and we should cherish every moment we spend in LOS.

Hey, you know, maybe you should just go ahead and write a book about your daily stuff. I have an asian girlfriend here in US and I feel lucky but I would love to read a book about something I've lived through to some extent with a certain intellectual basis which you seem to possess.

Keep on posting dude!

Soi 5

07-23-04, 01:49

This is an article on BBC filming inside the Bangkok Hilton, where several of our friends on the Photo thread will probably end up assming, wrongy perhpas, that harsh prison regimes are deterrants to crime.

Fun Times69
07-23-04, 08:56
I watched the BBC programme last night about the Bangkok Hilton that Domino's last message spoke about

Oh my god - that place is hardcore.

Life means life. Sharing a cell with hundreds of others for 15 hours a day able to lie down only.

The only thing I touch in Thailand is the girls and plenty of them at that! No matter how desperate you are nothing can't be worth the risk of entering that hole of a place.

There's lots of fun to be had in Thailand but don't forget they have some very different values to 'the west'. The Thai's only stopped execution by firing squad last December!

07-23-04, 17:17

Hey Soi Mike,

I came from the US so I know what you mean about the mundane affair, but I suspected the animal called mundanus everydayus follows one everywhere and I believe I was correct.

I've been here six months and most of the newness has worn off and I find myself living almost as if I were back in the states.

The question of what I will drink tonight still boils down to spirits, wine, or beer. The question of what I will smoke is the same now as it was then, answer: Marlboro Lights. The question of what P4P girl I might try to shag is of course a different answer in Thailand, what with the gargantuan plethora of choices, but it still isn't much different then hitting the AMP or trekking down to Mexico or hitting the seedy strip clubs. It does cost a lot less if one lives here and I (and all the rest of us) can vouch for that.

And for me the cost of life was the key in my decision. EVERYTHING cost a lot less here than in the states, even a McDonald's Hamburger. So the biggest and really the only change in my life is that I am not working anymore. Instead I am going to school and learning a new language to give me the semblance of a schedule. I had my writing back in the states and I also have my writing here.

Nothing else has changed much except that I am no longer working. I know that might sound hard to believe but it is the truth. Many will point out the (seemingly) drastic cuts I made to my standard of living: my one room ant-infested apartment with no A/C or hot water, but the reality is not so in my way of thinking. Okay, I will admit it took about a month to acclimatize myself to no A/C. But now it's no problem, sabye sabye.

Back in the states I lived in a three bedroom two bath house with A/C and hot water. I had a garage full of cars and motorcycles and I also had a fenced in back yard. But in reality I spent all my time on the couch or on the computer when I wasn't out chasing P4P tail. Now I have one room with a couch and a computer desk and I still go out and chase the tail on occasion.

I don't have the car or the motorcycle anymore but who the hell needs them when living in Bangkok? The answer seems to be the same as in the states. Those that live in the burbs or in a city that has little mass transit need a car or a motorcycle. I live one kilometer from the Skytrain so I have no need for personal transportation.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad I made the decision and I am not in anyway thinking of returning to live stateside. I just wanted to articulate that mundanus everydayus never goes away. It is simply impossible to elude that crazy critter. :)


07-23-04, 19:24

Faulkner was an arrogant SOB
one time
when asked about his thoughts on inspiration
He said,
ďI have no idea what an inspiration is. Iíve never seen one.Ē

Today I got up and did the following:
made coffee
poured a cup and lit a cigarette
then another and
until I decided I was hungry

In Thailand
they sell these little red hairy fruits at the market
for twenty baht per kilo

yesterday I bought a sack of Ďem
and I gotta admit
theyíre pretty good

so today after my cigarettes and my coffees
I thought Iíd have a few to satisfy

I picked one up and went at it with the knife
I cut it clean and popped the rind off and took a bite
I felt a prick!

I threw the hairy red fruit in the sink and to my
I watched about a dozen tiny red ants
scurry about on and near it

it was then that I realized one of those little
had bit me on the lip and it was then that I realized
I wouldnít be going out today

itís war all the time with me and those little red
I get an allergy from their bite
and somehow
I think the little shitís
know that

One day Iíll figure out their weakness
I'll destroy them all
at least conquer them

there was nothing left to do
but examine my upper lip

within fifteen minutes it had swelled to three times its normal
I looked like a spitting image of
Daffy Duck

I stood there looking at myself in the mirror looking like a duck
and I started to


and suddenly it hit me
a perfectly simple
so I ran to the computer and typed


whack whack whack
smack smack smack
whack whack smack whack
smack smack

we get more done
than most

after that
I had to smile I had to laugh
we are all trying to get something done
but something is always
biting us

itís something that we must
and itís never

just like those ants
the little

one day Iíll find a way to get them

and maybe that will be the day I can
Mr. Faulkner
a little something
about inspiration


07-23-04, 19:34

Okay guys, here is something that might be useful information. AirAsia has flights to Udon Thani for B482 each way.

My sixty days expires on August 27th so I'll be using their service to Udon Thani to make my way to Laos via the friendship bridge.

If I have added it all up correctly, I should be able to make it to Vientiane in about four hours for about B650.

I'll let you all know how it goes. And for any of you guys that need to make the run, maybe this info will be of some help.

On the other hand, for B482, maybe all you want to do is pay a visit to the Isaan girls. Didn't someone make a song about them back in 1980 something? :)


07-24-04, 13:33
PL - I've wonder why those little pissmires aren't found in the fruit EXCEPT the next day - it's like they wait for the bag to hit the table. One thing - they seem to be able to chew thru plastic bags (Thai take-out bags). Found some in my khao a couple of months ago - wondered what the slightly acidic taste was, and then one bit my lip, too. I think about them when I eat their larger cousins, FRIED

07-24-04, 13:39
Mr D.

I understand. They can chew through plastic wrap. I found this out when I found them chomping on my pancake mix. I whipped up a batch and cooked 'em up with the pancake. They ain't so bad with a little butter and syrup.

I haven't tried the larger cousin yet. What would that dish be called, tom yam moat? :)

07-24-04, 13:58
Don't know what the Thai name is - but there was a bugman with a mound of fried ants seasoned with pik and green onion at Nana last year. tasty little bugs - haven't had ants (intentionally) since survival school (and that was a LONG time ago). Personally, I like grasshoppers - nutty flavour and built in toothpicks.

07-31-04, 00:47

life is not easy
duh, what an idiotic

but consider this
it could be your last

what are you going to

as for me
I've still got 13 minutes and 52

I've got 1000 Baht in my

should I stay here and continue
to work
or should I go somewhere else?

It's a question everyone is asking
these days.

08-01-04, 02:40
SUNDAY 01 AUG 2004

It's 8am and I just woke up, made coffee, booted the computer, and now I am just sitting here staring at nude still lifeís as my girlfriend lies in bed sleeping.

Her Thai translated copy of "Anna Karina" is sitting open next to her. She must have read last night until her last breath, falling asleep in mid sentence. She is an avid reader. As the man of the household, (the one that pays the bills), I know she is an avid reader because books are one of my biggest expenses. I'd say she devours at least 10 books a month.

Anna is one of the classics that I haven't yet read so I suppose I should start reading my copy. I've owned it for about a year now. We like to read the same books and then talk about them. Last week it was The Da Vinci Code. This week it looks like it's going to be "Anna Karina." I always wonder what is lost in translation between Russian and Thai. It's not so easy to find Russian classics for her to read. Last month I found a copy of "Poor Folk" by Dostoyevsky. She quite enjoyed it.

Ah, I hear a rustle on the bed. It was her. She just rolled over onto her right side now clutching her copy of Anna with her left hand. What a literary sight.

I'm sitting here as the nude stills flip by thinking I want to get in the shower and then slip out and head to some place on Suk between Asok and Nana. Why is that? It seems that even when a man possesses the perfect girl he always wants something more.

She reads the Pantip board on the internet which is one huge ass gossip sight for Thai people. They talk about everything from the King and Queen to the latest person arrested for this or that. Lately the talk of the town is about a girl that was arrested because of something related to the porn industry. She used to model for a website called Asian4u.

I guess that is why I brought up the nude still lifeís on my computer. My girlfriend and I spent the last couple of days sifting through my porn collection trying to find a photo of the girl that was arrested.

She is still sleeping and I am still thinking about taking that shower and slipping out for a while. I think I'll have another coffee first.

Over and out,

Cloud Seeker
08-01-04, 13:22

It's Anna Karenina (as opposed to Karina).


08-01-04, 15:09

at 8 a.m. I sit in my chair watching the water before it boils
our coffee cups sit on the counter in front of the Nescafe and the CoffeeMate
and I wonder why I'm so alone
looking deep inside my heart of hearts I know the answer
Iíve never let myself
invariably I always come back to the need for something
and I sit here at 8 a.m. in the morning
wondering if is it possible
to change

I will pour coffee and sugar and cream into her cup
then mine
I will set it gently on the counter and she will wake up
and smile
weíll light a cigarette and smoke them together and our day will
and I will watch this women and I will marvel at her
but in the back of my mind I will be
somewhere else
trying to figure out where I should
trying to figure out why I am so close
yet unable to do anything

08-01-04, 15:32
Ok, I'm curious and have an honest question for all you american expats living in Thailand. Other than being retired, independentely wealthy, or an English Language teacher, what do you do for a living there? I am an American currently living and working for the U.S. government in Baghdad and am considering moving to another country once my job here is done. What are the job prospects for Westerners (Farangs) there?

As always, any and all helpful information regarding this topic would be greatly appreciated.