Living in the Philippines

[Krum Lov]

Greg,

I have sent you a few private msgs over past couple of months but no reply.

If you get a min can you please respond?

Cheers mate.

[GoodEnough]

I lost my wallet on Friday night, which was completely my fault and the source of today's story. Replacing the two credit cards proved to be no problem, and despite the necessity of waiting a week or ten days, the local bank card replacement presented no formidable obstacles either. Fortunately, my US driver's license wasn't in the wallet, but the local one was and it is here that our tale begins.

Fortunately for me, I work with lots of highly professional, experienced Filipinos, and within an hour or two on Monday morning, I had filled out all of the paperwork requisite to getting a duplicate license. This included an "Affidavit of Loss," properly notarized. I didn't actually see the notary, and for a small payment of Php150 was able to send the driver to get it notarized for me requiring neither my physical presence or my passport. So far so good. I then completed another form reiterating much of the information in the affidavit, but this was the "official" form of the Land Transportation Office (LT0) and thus part of the required dossier. Having completed the requirements, I had someone call our "Mr. Fixit," who is the guy who normally expedites the serpentine, alleyways of the LTO, submitting the papers to the right people and assuring that all I would have to do was show up and get my picture taken. He would then bring the new license to me prior to close of business today. So anyway, he showed up and I paid him. He told me he would call on Tuesday morning to tell me when to come down to LTO for the picture taking.

True to his word, I got the call-or rather one of my colleagues got the call as he speaks almost no English-and I took a car and driver for the 20 minute drive to the LTO complex. Perhaps "complex" is too grandiose a term for the sprawling, shack-like wooden structures which in their totality comprise the majesty of the LTO in Davao. It looks rather like a squatter's compound on a dirt field, which in fact is pretty much what it is.

Mr. Fixit met me at the gate, and led me through the hoards of people milling around the various buildings and windows, and gestured to me that I should wait until my name was called. Now what you should picture is a crowd of at least 300 people, or maybe 400, sitting outside in the sweltering heat, patiently (with the exception of me) waiting for someone to broadcast their name through the $25 speaker system that looked like it was bought from KMart about 15 years ago and had had a hard life. There were only enough seats for may 75 people, and some of those seats were broken, so most of us just stood there. I, of course, was confident that having "fixed" things, my name would be called quickly. And sure enough, about an hour and ten minutes later, I jumped the queue and there I was, in front of the camera lady. Despite the wait of 70 minutes or so I had clearly skipped over a couple of hundred people, though my once freshly-pressed clothes looked like I had just emerged from a sauna.

Nonetheless, happy that I had wasted only a couple of hours rather than the entire day, I got back into the car with a promise from Fixit that he would drop the license off by the close of business. Parenthetically, I should add that on the way back to the office we passed the National Statistics Office, which is the twin of the LTO, where about 200 poor souls shuffled along in the baking heat trying to get one or another official documents.

Much later in the afternoon (and this is the kicker to the story) , I got a call from Fixit-relayed through a Filipino colleague-that the LTO had "run out of plastic" and would therefore issue only a paper Original Receipt which would serve as a license until such time as a new supply is available. Now the fact that a national department, responsible for issuing driver's licenses throughout the country can actually "run out" of the very product that it's responsible for delivering not only astounded me, but in retrospect seems an appropriate avatar for the entire screwed up place. Everything about the system: from a process that should take minutes but takes the average person a full day or more, to the lack of even the most basic comforts such as air conditioning, seating and bathrooms, to the fact that it "runs out" of the plastic on which to print licenses tells me that, at the macro-level, there's simply no hope at all for this place.

[Soapy Smith]

I think I ran into Mr. Fixit in Manila. Several times, in fact. He helped me avoid a lot of time standing in line to get some extension on my visa. Another time he helped me get around the waiting hordes trying to get access to an MRT (meaning Magnetic Resonance Imaging, not light rail) in one of the government hospitals in Quezon City.

A critic might point out that by employing Mr. Fixit we're actually reinforcing the problem. As foreigners, of course, we're not positioned to change the system anyway. But if all the Filipinos who typically employ Mr. Fixit had to wait in the sweltering heat like the hordes, maybe the system would change. It's sort of like military duty in the U.S. If everybody's sons and daughters were subject to the draft, so that those in harm's way weren't merely from lower socio-economic backgrounds, the military would become a much smaller component of our foreign policy, and we'd save trillions of dollars in foreign military excursions. Which might in turn change some of the anti-American sentiment around the world.

[BillB]

A critic might point out that by employing Mr. Fixit we're actually reinforcing the problem. As foreigners, of course, we're not positioned to change the system anyway. But if all the Filipinos who typically employ Mr. Fixit had to wait in the sweltering heat like the hordes, maybe the system would change. It's sort of like military duty in the USA If everybody's sons and daughters were subject to the draft, so that those in harm's way weren't merely from lower socio-economic backgrounds, the military would become a much smaller component of our foreign policy, and we'd save trillions of dollars in foreign military excursions. Which might in turn change some of the anti-American sentiment around the world.I don't quite understand your post, are you suggesting we should return to the Military Draft in the USA where everybody's sons and daughters are drafted, because the draft ended in 1973, and we now employ a military of volunnteers. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is one member of the current US Military who was drafted in to the Military,

[FreebieFan]

[quote=goodenough; much later in the afternoon (and this is the kicker to the story) , i got a call from fixit-relayed through a filipino colleague-that the lto had "run out of plastic" and would therefore issue only a paper original receipt which would serve as a license until such time as a new supply is available. now the fact that a national department, responsible for issuing driver's licenses throughout the country can actually "run out" of the very product that it's responsible for delivering not only astounded me, but in retrospect seems an appropriate avatar for the entire screwed up place. everything about the system: from a process that should take minutes but takes the average person a full day or more, to the lack of even the most basic comforts such as air conditioning, seating and bathrooms, to the fact that it "runs out" of the plastic on which to print licenses tells me that, at the macro-level, there's simply no hope at all for this place. [/quote]hopeless or not? i conversely had a delightful (well sort of) experience at lto in ayala makati recently. i was in manila, knew that my expiry date was forthcoming and went there. apparantly i was 3 days short of the official expiry but the lady said it was fine.

i know that the queue / line starts early so despite not having got to bed till 3am i was in the line at 8. 40 awaiting the 9. 00am office opening, which ocurred at 9. 15. we all shuffled in, and the process of renewal started.

the male [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) test is a bit spartan, and to ensure theres no manipulation of the [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample you are required to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) with the door open to all. hmm. and of course theres no soap and water for washing therafter.

the eye test was a bit of a prob due to the late night but we past that, and 70 minutes after starting the renewal process, i was out of lto with a shiny new plastic card valid for another 3 years. maybe mine was a lucky day, and mr ge's wasnt.

maybe the fact i'd got well laid the night before helped with the humour of the process.

or maybe sitting here in my airconditioned office today i've got rose coloured glasses on. . but it was actually a neat and none too painful process and i did it with no "fixing".

however i do remember the time at the nbi when getting a work permit and my mr fixit took me past 300 people to get right to the front. hated that but if i had stood in line i might still be standing there.

[GoodEnough]

I agree Skip, we're reinforcing the problem which caused me about a nanosecond of moral indecision: was it better to waste an entire day of my time, knowing full well that the problem of inefficiency, ineptitude and corruption is insoluble, or save six hours and pay off. I decided in my favor, thereby resolving the conundrum. The fact is that the general chaos that reigns here will continue to plague the country no matter what I do, and I value my time (and my air conditioned comforts) too much to wallow in the question of whether I've made a small contribution toward perpetuating the rot at the core of the country. This is, for all intents and purposes, a failed state, and no act of mine will rectify any of its major problems.

It's sad but true I think that for those of us who live here, concentrating on the "up side" while circumventing as much as possible the "down side" is they way to get through it all with some enjoyment, sanity and contentment.

GE

[GoodEnough]

I agree Skip, we're reinforcing the problem which caused me about a nanosecond of moral indecision: was it better to waste an entire day of my time, knowing full well that the problem of inefficiency, ineptitude and corruption is insoluble, or save six hours and pay off. I decided in my favor, thereby resolving the conundrum. The fact is that the general chaos that reigns here will continue to plague the country no matter what I do, and I value my time (and my air conditioned comforts) too much to wallow in the question of whether I've made a small contribution toward perpetuating the rot at the core of the country. This is, for all intents and purposes, a failed state, and no act of mine will rectify any of its major problems.

It's sad but true I think that for those of us who live here, concentrating on the "up side" while circumventing as much as possible the "down side" is they way to get through it all with some enjoyment, sanity and contentment.

GE

[Irony Monger]

Nonetheless, happy that I had wasted only a couple of hours rather than the entire day, I got back into the car with a promise from Fixit that he would drop the license off by the close of business.Tell Mr. Fixit that I would be glad to have his services in the USA. My last experience at the Department of Motor Vehicles here took about 4 hours.

[Soapy Smith]

It's sad but true I think that for those of us who live here, concentrating on the "up side" while circumventing as much as possible the "down side" is they way to get through it all with some enjoyment, sanity and contentment. GEI think your strategy is on the mark. And perhaps top of the list on the "up side" are those loving little brown-skinned women. (I don't mean "little" as a pejorative, only a descriptor of their often small stature, which I happen to like.)

Your "failed state" thesis is not necessarily inconsistent with my argument that the Philippines is being whipped about on the tail of a much more powerful dog. Both could be true. I also understand your being discouraged about the apparent inability or unwillingness to change the Philippine situation, especially if you harbored optimistic hopes when you first arrived. One of the reasons Jose Rizal was opposed to the Katipunan's revolutionary intentions was that he believed his countrymen were not ready for self-rule. Unfortunately 1) the Spanish Governor misunderstood or ignored the facts about Rizal, and 2) perhaps little has changed in the ensuing 110 years.

But as someone who spends 85% of his time across the Pacific pond from you I find myself becoming more cynical than ever about the intentions and efforts of the two major political parties here. The problems are bigger than ever and the Washington impasse just keeps getting more and more intractable. I'm not sure you'd be happier if you'd been in the states for the last six or seven years. Enjoy the upside.

[Soapy Smith]

are you suggesting we should return to the Military Draft in the USA where everybody's sons and daughters are draftedYes. I was a Vietnam era army veteran in my late teens and early 20s who made a decent life for himself after getting out of the service. I volunteered when I was 18. After I'd been in for a couple years I started looking around and sizing up the draftees against the enlistees. The draftees were generally a few years older and a whole lot more mature. Some enlistees were good troops, but many were young guys from f. Ked up backgrounds who were constantly getting in trouble.

But my real point is that it becomes harder to sell an all-out attack on a middle East dictatorship that did not have weapons of mass destruction and was only peripherally connected to 9/11 when you have to sell the idea to influential Americans whose children are going to be among the cannon fodder in harm's way. It is noteworthy that only two members of Congress ever had children serve in the military in Iraq.

[GoodEnough]

I think your strategy is on the mark. And perhaps top of the list on the "up side" are those loving little brown-skinned women. (I don't mean "little" as a pejorative, only a descriptor of their often small stature, which I happen to like.)

Your "failed state" thesis is not necessarily inconsistent with my argument that the Philippines is being whipped about on the tail of a much more powerful dog. Both could be true. I also understand your being discouraged about the apparent inability or unwillingness to change the Philippine situation, especially if you harbored optimistic hopes when you first arrived. One of the reasons Jose Rizal was opposed to the Katipunan's revolutionary intentions was that he believed his countrymen were not ready for self-rule. Unfortunately 1) the Spanish Governor misunderstood or ignored the facts about Rizal, and 2) perhaps little has changed in the ensuing 110 years.

But as someone who spends 85% of his time across the Pacific pond from you I find myself becoming more cynical than ever about the intentions and efforts of the two major political parties here. The problems are bigger than ever and the Washington impasse just keeps getting more and more intractable. I'm not sure you'd be happier if you'd been in the states for the last six or seven years. Enjoy the upside. I've been disgusted by US politics for years, and, aside from a slight upsurge of optimism when Obama was elected, haven't been enthusiastic about any Western democracy for quite a while. I went back to the States for the first time in seven years a few months ago, and it did nothing to whet my appetite for living there again.

I agree with your assessment of the major upside of this place, but then when you live here and start to take the availability of women for granted, it's not sufficient (at least for me) to compensate for the basic rot at the core of the governmental institutions here. I know that it's quite facile to point to corruption in the US and elsewhere and to conclude that there's basically no difference, but there is, and it's quite dramatic. It would take me pages to describe the differences, and I would do so qualitatively for the most part. Women notwithstanding, the major advantage of living here is that most people can afford a much higher quality of (material) life here than they could in the US or in Europe. In my case, I'm doubly lucky because even at a relatively advanced age, I still enjoy the work I do and most of the people with whom I work. That said, I'll probably move elsewhere in the region once the work ends as I'm about sated with the country.

GE

[Soapy Smith]

I agree with your assessment of the major upside of this place, but then when you live here and start to take the availability of women for granted, it's not sufficient (at least for me) to compensate for the basic rot at the core of the governmental institutions here. I know that it's quite facile to point to corruption in the US and elsewhere and to conclude that there's basically no difference, but there is, and it's quite dramatic. GERecommended reading GE: James C. Scott (1998). *Seeing like a state: How certain schemes to improve the human condition have failed* New Haven: Yale University Press. It's one of numerous books he has written about the difficulties of "development," and set primarily in various countries in Southeast Asia.

It will either royally [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) you, open up a whole new perverse way to understand what annoys you about the Phils, or both.

[GoodEnough]

Recommended reading GE: James C. Scott (1998). *Seeing like a state: How certain schemes to improve the human condition have failed* New Haven: Yale University Press. It's one of numerous books he has written about the difficulties of "development," and set primarily in various countries in Southeast Asia.

It will either royally [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) you, open up a whole new perverse way to understand what annoys you about the Phils, or both. Thanks. I'll try to find it. My theory of development, at least on the part of most Western countries, is that it's undertaken out of two major motivations: one, to increase geo-political influence in regions considered important to the donor countries, and two, to prevent more of "them" from coming "here." Aside from Norway, which seems motivated by genuine altruism, it all comes down to self-interest and foreign policy in the end. There's nothing particularly wrong with self-interest of course, but it's impotent no to get too carried away. But then, I've been at this a long time, and I guess I've gotten more skeptical over the years.

GE

[GoodEnough]

Recommended reading GE: James C. Scott (1998). *Seeing like a state: How certain schemes to improve the human condition have failed* New Haven: Yale University Press. It's one of numerous books he has written about the difficulties of "development," and set primarily in various countries in Southeast Asia.

It will either royally [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) you, open up a whole new perverse way to understand what annoys you about the Phils, or both. Thanks Skip. I just went to the Amazon site and spent $10 on the electronic version of the book, and I've now read the introduction. It's an interesting thesis, but I'm not sure, at least in post-industrial societies, that it's entirely possible to differentiate between "the markets" and "the State," at least in countries like the US. Still, there's no doubt that, at the heart of development, there's an implicit value ascribed to making "them" more like "us," thus creating the utopian ideal that Scott seems to be talking about. And there's no doubt that in creating our grandiose paradigms, we often ignore, or fail to admit the legitimacy of informal behaviors and modes of social organization. This should be an interesting read. Thanks for recommending it.

GE

[FreebieFan]

Thanks Skip. I just went to the Amazon site and spent $10 on the electronic version of the book, and I've now read the introduction. It's an interesting thesis, but I'm not sure, at least in post-industrial societies, that it's entirely possible to differentiate between "the markets" and "the State," at least in countries like the US. Still, there's no doubt that, at the heart of development, there's an implicit value ascribed to making "them" more like "us," thus creating the utopian ideal that Scott seems to be talking about. And there's no doubt that in creating our grandiose paradigms, we often ignore, or fail to admit the legitimacy of informal behaviors and modes of social organization. This should be an interesting read. Thanks for recommending it.

GEHi GE. Its great when you guys talk in your "work language". I can't understand a word of it! LOL.

[GoodEnough]

Hi GE. Its great when you guys talk in your "work language". I can't understand a word of it! LOL.Sorry about that. It's probably totally inappropriate on this forum, and we should probably just each go and write a paper or something.

GE

[Red Kilt]

Sorry about that. It's probably totally inappropriate on this forum, and we should probably just each go and write a paper or something.

GEA couple of "probably's" in your sentence GE.

I am probably inclined to insert "definitely" instead of "probably" in your sentence and make it more representative of the real situation LOL.

Viz.

It's definitely totally inappropriate on this forum, and we should definitely just each go and (have a nice glass of red / white wine).

[GoodEnough]

A couple of "probably's" in your sentence GE.

I am probably inclined to insert "definitely" instead of "probably" in your sentence and make it more representative of the real situation LOL.

Viz.

It's definitely totally inappropriate on this forum, and we should definitely just each go and (have a nice glass of red / white wine). Another good suggestion, but if I have too much red wine I'm probably never going to get that paper written.

[AchillesHeel]

Hey been off ISG for a while, but I'm heading to Cebu for the summer to study Eskrima. Can anyone recommend a cheap but safe place to stay for a couple of months? I just need A / C and an internet connection where I can leave my computer and camera.

I see GE and many others have talked about general cost of living, but if there is a local website where I can check out the Cebu apartments that would be cool. Already have some DIA girls offering to help, but somehow I don't think they're going to come up with much. Oh well, I'm sure I'll think of something they can do. Appreciate it.

[GoodEnough]

There's a Yahoo Group called livinginthephilippines (not a competitor to this board Jackson) that has lots of posts about cost of licing in various places in the country. If you post a question on that board it will probably prompt lots of answers and tips on where to look.


Hey been off ISG for a while, but I'm heading to Cebu for the summer to study Eskrima. Can anyone recommend a cheap but safe place to stay for a couple of months? I just need A / C and an internet connection where I can leave my computer and camera.

I see GE and many others have talked about general cost of living, but if there is a local website where I can check out the Cebu apartments that would be cool. Already have some DIA girls offering to help, but somehow I don't think they're going to come up with much. Oh well, I'm sure I'll think of something they can do. Appreciate it.

[Buko Max]

Hey been off ISG for a while, but I'm heading to Cebu for the summer to study Eskrima. Can anyone recommend a cheap but safe place to stay for a couple of months? I just need A / C and an internet connection where I can leave my computer and camera.If you are only staying a few months you are better off in a hotel or pension house. Do know of some serviced apartments but they are out on Mactan and are expensive. Good luck!

[AchillesHeel]

There's a Yahoo Group called livinginthephilippines (not a competitor to this board Jackson) that has lots of posts about cost of licing in various places in the country. If you post a question on that board it will probably prompt lots of answers and tips on where to look.Thanks GE, I'll check it out. Also wanted to check out Davao as well. If I end up finding a teacher there, I'll take you out to dinner. It would be good to see you again.

[Chocha Monger]

Part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLNzaSWjouA&feature=related

Part 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFp0ld_lgdk&feature=related

Part 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiXFXhD2cwY&feature=related

[AgentOrange]

http://antipinoy.com/philippine-travel-guide-a-foreigners-survival-kit/

[Gangles]

I apologise for being late to pick up on this stream and discussion.

I have a somewhat different take on the issues involved.

For some years, I have worked in developing countries, (Aus AID projects) and also a good contract working in a remote Australian aboriginal community. One thing that consistently struck me was the cynicism among the consultants and contractors about the likelihood of our efforts actually bringing about change.

The most recent experience was in the Solomon Islands.

I address the issue this way.

First, on a whiteboard, I draw a circle. This represents the peoples of the world.

I draw a vertical line through the circle, projecting well outside the circle.

This line represents the split between those people whose way of living is based on the hunter-gatherer culture, versus those whose way of life is that of the agrarian culture.

The agrarian is the farmer, who withholds part of his income (crop) which then becomes the seed for the next crop cycle. This is the basis for business, where the businessman does not scoop the money from the till and spend it. Because he needs to keep some money to buy stock for tomorrow. It is also the basis for all forms of budgeting, cash flow projection, strategic planning, forecasting. Which is how most western governments operate.

The hunter gatherer knows that although he has killed or caught food for today, there may be no food tomorrow, so consume it all today. The strategy for survival is the closely knit clan or group. Here, the principle is. Everybody owns everything. But the head man owns it all. The one-talk culture is the perfect example of this in Papua New Guinea.

I draw a second line, horizontal, which again splits the circle in two. This line represents the split between those people whose culture is based on the primacy of the individual (individual human rights) , versus those whose way of life is based on the culture of the primacy of the collective. Where every individual is expected to suppress their own ambitions for the benefit of the group. Western culture, and government, is based on the culture of the primacy of the individual.

Then I proceed to take a number of countries which are known to the members of the group, and plot their position on the diagram. My country, Australia, is on the far extreme of the primacy of the individual. It is also on the extreme of the culture of the agrarian. Australian aboriginals are to the extreme of the hunter gatherer, and also to the extreme of the culture of the primacy of the collective. The Philippines exhibits many characteristics of the culture of the hunter gatherer, and also of the primacy of the collective, but neither are to the extreme. And so we go through a number of countries.

So, what we have in these aid projects is a bunch of people, consultants, project managers, who come from donor countries at the extremes of primacy of the individual, and agrarian culture, dealing with people from the opposite sides of the divides.

It is almost impossible for the donor country people to think within the cultural perspectives of the recipient countries. This includes internal projects such as we have here in Australia.

So, the projects are generally doomed to failure. We are people trying to impose our culture onto that of the recipient country. At the very best, we should expect change to occur at a pace no faster than we can change. For example, we have known in Australia that we seriously need labour market reform. We have been changing it for maybe 20 years, and we are only about half way there.

So, back to GE. My perspective of these projects is that they will create change, but not at the rate which the donor country expects, or demands. So the Philippines will be a long way in bringing about the change that we want and expect.

What do you think?

G

[GoodEnough]

What do I think? I agree that most, if not all development projects are based on the cultural hubris of the donor organizations, and since most such organizations are Western at least culturally, there's an implicit assumption that Western culture is superior. Conversely, developing countries accept the aid and the projects offered; there's no coercion involved, which at least is an implicit admission that Western culture-at least in respect to the specific projects being offered-is superior to the current status. However, most projects are developed by Western "specialists" only marginally cognizant of the cultures and societies in which the projects will be implemented. Those who actually implement the projects however-largely consultancy firms-typically employ reasonably intelligent people who have worked in developing countries for a long time, and are extremely familiar with the local contexts.

I think your model is accurate, as far as it goes, but represents one out of hundreds of anthropological, socio-economic, sociological and economic models of the world, all of which are imperfect. Yours, for example, fails to account for the pervasive culture of corruption that perverts every development effort at every level here. It also assumes a cultural monolith, when in fact there are iterally thousands of highly varied cultures here, as well as languages, beliefs, and mores. Your model assumes that in the Philippines the agrarians (largely smallholder farmers) set aside a portion of their crops for seeds, thus creating the basis of budgeting and primitive economics. That's not true here in many cases, which is why farmer's are perpetually indebted to seed and fertilizer companies for a portion of their next crop. Finally, I think that your model, like most models, fails to account for the systems under which people are governed-in this case by an oligarchy whose sole concern is self-enrichment and social control.

I do not believe that most of the people in my field, myself included, are cynical. We believe in what we do, but we're realistic in acknowledging that absent strong, consistent, competent leadership at the top of the political pyramid, large-scale, sustained change simply isn't feasible. So we content ourselves with incremental, geographically restricted change, which we accept because we recognize that we can help to improve the lives of a small number of people, and because we've helped to improve their lives, the lives of their progeny will also be better. I've simply spent too much time in Africa and too much time here to believe differently. The transformations that occurred and are still occurring in Singapore, in Malaysia, in Indonesia and even in Vietnam, came about because of vision and commitment from the very top that was supported by huge numbers of citizens.

As to this country, I believe it to be a failed state, and I believe it meets most, though not all of the criteria to fit it neatly ito this category. This doesn't mean I don't believe in what I do nor does it mean that incremental change for the better isn't plausible. However as to having any hope at all for the country overal, I simply don't.

GE.


I apologise for being late to pick up on this stream and discussion.

I have a somewhat different take on the issues involved.

For some years, I have worked in developing countries, (Aus AID projects) and also a good contract working in a remote Australian aboriginal community. One thing that consistently struck me was the cynicism among the consultants and contractors about the likelihood of our efforts actually bringing about change.

The most recent experience was in the Solomon Islands.

I address the issue this way.

First, on a whiteboard, I draw a circle. This represents the peoples of the world.

I draw a vertical line through the circle, projecting well outside the circle.

This line represents the split between those people whose way of living is based on the hunter-gatherer culture, versus those whose way of life is that of the agrarian culture.

The agrarian is the farmer, who withholds part of his income (crop) which then becomes the seed for the next crop cycle. This is the basis for business, where the businessman does not scoop the money from the till and spend it. Because he needs to keep some money to buy stock for tomorrow. It is also the basis for all forms of budgeting, cash flow projection, strategic planning, forecasting. Which is how most western governments operate.

The hunter gatherer knows that although he has killed or caught food for today, there may be no food tomorrow, so consume it all today. The strategy for survival is the closely knit clan or group. Here, the principle is. Everybody owns everything. But the head man owns it all. The one-talk culture is the perfect example of this in Papua New Guinea.

I draw a second line, horizontal, which again splits the circle in two. This line represents the split between those people whose culture is based on the primacy of the individual (individual human rights) , versus those whose way of life is based on the culture of the primacy of the collective. Where every individual is expected to suppress their own ambitions for the benefit of the group. Western culture, and government, is based on the culture of the primacy of the individual.

Then I proceed to take a number of countries which are known to the members of the group, and plot their position on the diagram. My country, Australia, is on the far extreme of the primacy of the individual. It is also on the extreme of the culture of the agrarian. Australian aboriginals are to the extreme of the hunter gatherer, and also to the extreme of the culture of the primacy of the collective. The Philippines exhibits many characteristics of the culture of the hunter gatherer, and also of the primacy of the collective, but neither are to the extreme. And so we go through a number of countries.

So, what we have in these aid projects is a bunch of people, consultants, project managers, who come from donor countries at the extremes of primacy of the individual, and agrarian culture, dealing with people from the opposite sides of the divides.

It is almost impossible for the donor country people to think within the cultural perspectives of the recipient countries. This includes internal projects such as we have here in Australia.

So, the projects are generally doomed to failure. We are people trying to impose our culture onto that of the recipient country. At the very best, we should expect change to occur at a pace no faster than we can change. For example, we have known in Australia that we seriously need labour market reform. We have been changing it for maybe 20 years, and we are only about half way there.

So, back to GE. My perspective of these projects is that they will create change, but not at the rate which the donor country expects, or demands. So the Philippines will be a long way in bringing about the change that we want and expect.

What do you think?

G

[TazDevil]

There's a very good weekly one hour cable TV program on the National Geographic Channel in the US called 'Locked Up Abroad'. It usually has stories about people getting caught smuggling drugs into or out of Asian Countries, South American Countries and / or the US with the perpetrators spending time in foreign jails.

One of the more recent episodes had a very interesting story about a British guy and a Filipino girl who was previously married. I'm sure this all sounds familiar to most here. They met on the internet, quite accidently as the story goes while she was working in Dubai and he was in England. When she said she was going back to the Philippines, he told her that he would meet here there.

Well, they met and 1 & 1 = 3, yes, she got pregnant. So, the estranged husband got wind of his wife's pregnancy and reported it to the local police. They arrested both the English guy and the Filipino girl for adultery and both went to jail. He got out on a technicality and she bailed out and had the baby. I'm condensing the story.

Now here is where it gets really strange. The British consulate told them that the baby is really not theirs and its country's origin is up to the estranged husband, so the baby cannot leave the Philippines. He asked about a DNA test, but the consulate told him that DNA testing is not part of the Philippine law system.

So, they got a fake passport for the baby and managed to slip through immigration out of the Philippines and now live happily ever after in Swindon, England. The Filipino girl finally got her annulment and they are married now in England. But, she still has two children from her previous marriage in the Philippines which she cannot go back to see them as she's afraid of her ex. What a life.

Reading stories here on the internet really helps us understand how these third world countries manage to handle social issues such as adultery. Amazing they just put the couple into jail with all the other 'criminals'. The Catholic Church must have a lot of power there.

This is the way the Philippine social law is being presented to the US viewers of this program.

[Ekspat]

There's a very good weekly one hour cable TV program on the National Geographic Channel in the US called 'Locked Up Abroad'.Indeed it's a good series. They also had reports about the Mindanao Massacre and the kidnapping of the Burnhams.

Welcome to the Philippines.

[Bob Bowie]

Indeed it's a good series. They also had reports about the Mindanao Massacre and the kidnapping of the Burnhams.

Welcome to the Philippines. That is a great show. The episode about the Brit and the Pinay is going to be replayed on the 26th, title is "Forbidden Love". You can also download it now on Tunes for your iphone or ipad.

The National Geographic Chanel web site says there is an App for Locked Up Abroad.

[Fast Buck Artist]

Excellent documentary. An absolute must watch for anybody tempted to own assets in the Philippines.


Part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLNzaSWjouA&feature=related

Part 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFp0ld_lgdk&feature=related

Part 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiXFXhD2cwY&feature=related

[GoodEnough]

Excellent documentary. An absolute must watch for anybody tempted to own assets in the Philippines.This is excellent, and whle damning is a good object lesson for all of those who would even dream of starting a business in this corrupt place. It's also an implicit admonition to fly always below the radar, never to flaunt what you have, and never to act out in public since you never know who will be observing you. You have no legal protections here, and there's no working system of justice, so the locals-particularly those who are "connected"-can do whatever they like, and can pretty much take whatever of yours their greedy little souls desire. Most people here are kind and gentle, but all it takes is one corrupt, greedy person with some decent connections to bring you down. Is it any wonder that this country lags behind virtually all of its neighbors in attracting foreign investment?

GE

[Frenzy3]

Yes it seems that it is too common the story of losing it all here, I wonder why any one would bring money here to invest. It will never leave with you.

Gangsta is the one word that sums up this place.

[GoodEnough]

There's an excellent, recent report published by the Asian Development Bank entitled "An Agenda for High Inclusive Growth in the Philippines." The report is available free from the ADB website for anyone who is interested. The report was prepared by a team of Economists, and it's not light reading, but it does put some facts and statistics behind the generally accurate perceptions expressed by members here, so what's interesting to me is that our perceptions of corruption, failed government institutions, lack of education, and general hopelessness are, in fact, corroborated by hard statistics compiled and analyzed by unbiased academics.

One of the points raised in the report is that among all ASEAN nations, the Philippines is the only country that has not experienced reasonably dramatic reductions in poverty over the last decade. In fact it is the only country in the region in which poverty has actually grown. The report also stresses. As all of us know, that true growth and development absent meaningful institutional and governmental reform-coupled with a concerted effort to dramatically reduce corruption-there's no hope of meaningful improvement nationally. To me this suggests that there's truly no hope at all.

GE

[Brymor]

Excellent documentary. An absolute must watch for anybody tempted to own assets in the Philippines.Since I never plan to own assets in the Philippines and always try to remain discreet (hopefully) I will never fall foul of such corrupt practices, but it was indeed fascinating viewing and very useful for frequent visitors like myself to be aware of this organisation should the the worst happen.

What I found inspirational is that there are actually some government officials, police officers and politicians who are not corrupt and who are willing to take positive action to tackle corruption within their midst. It is not a completely lost cause although I accept it is an endemic problem throughout all institutions in the Philippines. The other thing that struck me was how lucky Alfred was to find himself an educated, forward thinking career minded Filipina who actually married him because she clearly loved him (since he no longer has any money).

I found the documentary very enlightening for someone like me who is so cynical and very inspirational.

Thanks to the original poster for the posting.

M

[Soapy Smith]

I think your model is accurate, as far as it goes, but represents one out of hundreds of anthropological, socio-economic, sociological and economic models of the world, all of which are imperfect. Yours, for example, fails to account for the pervasive culture of corruption that perverts every development effort at every level here. It also assumes a cultural monolith, when in fact there are iterally thousands of highly varied cultures here, as well as languages, beliefs, and mores. Your model assumes that in the Philippines the agrarians (largely smallholder farmers) set aside a portion of their crops for seeds, thus creating the basis of budgeting and primitive economics. That's not true here in many cases, which is why farmer's are perpetually indebted to seed and fertilizer companies for a portion of their next crop. Finally, I think that your model, like most models, fails to account for the systems under which people are governed-in this case by an oligarchy whose sole concern is self-enrichment and social control.GE.Gangles,

I would add that what separates understanding among donor countries, aid and development workers, and developing countries cannot be explained by two variables, as your model implies, although these two are helpful. In addition, to the extent the hunter-gatherer / agrarian and individual / collectivist variables matter, I suspect the countries of the world could be more accurately situated if you treated these as continuous rather than dichotomous variables. We Western-educated folks love reducing the world to parsimonious logical / conceptual models that help us put the world in order in our own minds, especially when the world is more complicated than the carrying capacity of our heads. But if your underlying thesis about the cultural imperialism of donor-recipient systems is correct, wouldn't the same cultural imperialism apply to schmucks like us trying to use Western knowledge to explain it all?

I agree with GE's point that agrarian people do not always have a future-oriented relationship with their seed stocks. Historically, I think that investing in the future arose, not so much because of agrarian lifestyle but as a component of capitalism-which arguably began in the Netherlands-due to the birth of ascetic Calvinism, which, unlike other previous strains of Christianity, taught that it was okay to accumulate wealth and store for the future, because it was in fact a sign of God's blessing shining down on the individual.

If the United States is considered in the mix, I am not convinced that Western nations are necessarily guided by "strategic planning" as you suggest. I think that's sort of a myth that is belied, at least in the USA, by the interactions of the two major political parties. I think my own cynicism about my country's future could very nearly challenge the cynicism that GE feels toward the future of the Phils.

[Red Kilt]

Check this out,

http://www.news.com.au/world/buffalo-kills-australian-in-philippines/story-e6frfkyi-1226083908140?from=news

[Slippery]

Its about time those gutless carabao stood on their 4 feet and started getting even!

[GoodEnough]

I agree Skip, if we can't understand the world in terms of a couple of mutually exclusive categories, then we don't quite know what to make of it. The fact is of course that humans and the societies in which they live are multi-dimensional, dynamic and evolving. They can't be captured by neat, linear equations and categories, but that's the only tool that Western social scientists have to understand them. So what do we do? We can't very well ignore the "noise" that gets in the way of our pristine calculations, so we "control" for it, thus again reducing the world to a series of linear equations that we think we understand. Of course it's all crap, but if we admit that fact, then we put a of people (like me) out of business and we re-immerse ourselves in our own mythology.

I'm especially amused by those who try to quantify societies that don't see the world linearly like we do. What if people don't accept "cause and effect? If this, therefore that?" What if they see time as circular, events as recurrent? Our models are blown and we're left scratching our asses.

GE

[Member #4491]

What if they see time as circular, events as recurrent?

GEWould this explain why our pinay helper keeps putting the washed kitchen wear in new places every time she did the dishes?

Eventually, after the N:th dish wash, the glass will end up where it should actually be. A circular yet 100% stochastic process.

B

[Nolz7]

Interesting intellectual discussion for a change. I can't remember the name of the American movie in the 90s featuring Warren Beatty as president and Halle Berry (yum yum) as his publicly disapproved black lover but Beatty had a line in the movie something like "We've just got to keep f*ing [literally] every nation in the world until we're all one race and then maybe we will understand each other and stop all this bullshit [categorizing]". Maybe our mongering has a higher purpose after all. Love all. BTW I majored in sociology (the discipline of categorizing all things social) for my undergraduate at the premier institution for this discipline: University of Wisconsin.Is it "Bulworth"?. www.imdb.com

[GoodEnough]

Would this explain why our pinay helper keeps putting the washed kitchen wear in new places every time she did the dishes?

Eventually, after the N:th dish wash, the glass will end up where it should actually be. A circular yet 100% stochastic process.

BSorry, but no. Your house helper works on the Filipino model, the technical name of which is "absolutely clueless," though some have translated it from the ancient Sanskrit as "totally mindless."

[Fredje1961]

Interesting intellectual discussion for a change.Very interesting. I've recently returned to school for some additional courses among which sociology & economy etc.

Maybe I'll have to refer to this site as one of my sources if ever I need to write a paper.

[FreebieFan]

Would this explain why our pinay helper keeps putting the washed kitchen wear in new places every time she did the dishes?

Eventually, after the N:th dish wash, the glass will end up where it should actually be. A circular yet 100% stochastic process.

BIn case there is anyone here who has never heard of the word " stochastic" and I put myself squarely in that category, the following might help; We have some highly erudite fellows on this board!

1. Of, relating to, or characterized by conjecture; conjectural.

2. Statistics.

A. Involving or containing a random variable or variables: stochastic calculus.

Be. Involving chance or probability: a stochastic stimulation.

[Greek stokhastikos, from stokhast&275; s, diviner, from stokhazesthai, to guess at, from stokhos, aim, goal.]

[GoodEnough]

Very interesting. I've recently returned to school for some additional courses among which sociology & economy etc.

Maybe I'll have to refer to this site as one of my sources if ever I need to write a paper.It would be interesting to see how you would handle the footnote citations and the bibliography in relation to the authors!

[Fredje1961]

It would be interesting to see how you would handle the footnote citations and the bibliography in relation to the authors!I might propose an amendment to APA guidelines.

[Soapy Smith]

A circular yet 100% stochastic process. BLOL. Except I can't post this with fewer than ten characters. So much for parsimony.

[Soapy Smith]

maybe i'll have to refer to this site as one of my sources if ever i need to write a paper.why not? two solutions for the citation problem. 1) if you actually quote a monger or cite his idea, use this parenthetic reference: (personal communication, anonymous, june 30, 2011). 2) avoid the citations altogether by writing up a short methods section as though you're engaged in field research. acknowledge that your data are "archival materials from a popular sex tourism discussion board." (people have published well known field studies of nude beaches, gay pickups in park restrooms, violent environmental activism, homeless people, and lots of other "marginal" groups and settings, so why not isg?) you would want to fabricate some lie about how you happened upon or thought to explore these particular data. and you would make some disclaimer in the methods section that you've concealed informants' identities in order to protect their confidentiality. then as you quote or cite an idea from the board, simply refer to the source as "a senior participant," "an occasional participant," or "a relative newcomer" as appropriate. if national identities are known-brit, aussie, german, american-you could add to the authenticity of your data presentation by adding these identifiers as well. of course, you wouldn't actually write brit or aussie.

use good judgment in sizing up the open-mindedness of the professors to whom you submit work of this sort. this is all sort of lighthearted, but you'd be doing us all a favor if you did such a study that cast us in a good light. there are plenty of recent studies of trafficked sex slaves and most have been carelessly conducted. the world needs a more balanced understanding. two canadian "scholars" from somewhere in the maritime provinces recently published a study of "sex-trafficked" women in angeles city. they present a picture of **** women, women forced into prostitution, women "having sex for as little as 100 pesos," and so on. have some women there been lured by lies from mamasans who go recruiting in the provinces? yes. is this the predominant mode by which women get to ac? doubtful. but these kinds of unbalanced studies occur because the researchers come into the field setting with an ideological axe to grind, and then they're incapable of setting aside their biases to realize that they're intentionally sampling for women who will amplify the sensational effect. theoretically there's a distinction between sensational journalism and field studies done by trained researchers, but ideology and sloppy methods sometimes trump good training.

[GoodEnough]

Footnotes are no longer used in academic writing, GE. We now use parenthetical citations (lastname, year) and ruull reference info on the reference page at the back of course. .Shows you how long it's been since grad. School for me, doesn't it? Guess all those Latin abbreviations I once had to memorize are now useless. Sic transit gloria mundi.

[Fredje1961]

Footnotes are no longer used in academic writing, GE. We now use parenthetical citations (lastname, year) and ruull reference info on the reference page at the back of course. .Same for us: (lastname, year) in the text and full details at the end

[Fredje1961]

Why not?Hi SK,

It seems my follow forum members are actively supporting me in my endeavours. I'll keep all of you informed if and when relevant, and I'll make sure credit will be given where credit is due.

Current subject is "sustainable transport in Emerging Markets". Not sure if I can find relevant information here (then again, the younger sister of that truck driver, she really looks hot and I think she feels like spending some time with a kano.)

[Member #4491]

Thanks FreebieFan, for clarifying that. It tends to pop up in the field of IT every now and then so it became one of those all too few concepts that got stuck from math classes at university.

And I note two new words for me: parsimony and erudite.

In all honesty this thread is not always that easy to follow for me, being of non English speaking origin.

ISG. The only site that makes you both smarter and prettier.

B

[Soapy Smith]

Current subject is "sustainable transport in Emerging Markets". Not sure if I can find relevant information here (then again, the younger sister of that truck driver, she really looks hot and I think she feels like spending some time with a kano.)The world's oldest profession implies a viable market, right? Without too much trouble you could make the argument that the Philippines is an emerging market, right? But more about that later. Surely your teachers have you reading materials that speak both to the prescriptive and descriptive aspects of sustainability. That is, we can talk all we want about creating the most economically and environmentally sustainable businesses (and the transportation requirements for those businesses) , but some businesses are going to persist because of sheer demand, and so the descriptive side of transportation sustainability for these markets comes down to creating transport systems with the least possible environmental footprint and that can sustain the willingness and ability of people to pay for them. If you can show that sex tourism to the Philippines (or other monger destinations) is in fact a growing market, then it is an ideal topic of study for sustainable transportation systems. The sex trafficking idealogues have probably provided some distorted numbers to help make the case for prostitution as a growing market. So you use their numbers about the numbers of mongers and working women, and use data from this forum for the actual per-transaction transportation expenditures.

So perhaps your first paper is an analysis of the sustainability of the transportation systems currently in use for the emerging (and persistent) market of prostitution for foreigners in the Philippines. There are heaps of data about transportation in this forum: stories about bad taxi experiences, airline routes that are convenient and inconvenient, airline prices, use of jeepneys, buses, and the LRT around Metro Manila. So you have some very reliable data about what actual market participants are using for transportation. And many of the stories cite prices. Also, your data are neatly packaged in that the participants are specifically people who engage in this market. So you don't need to weed out any non-participants from the data.

Unfortunately, we know less about what the women use, but perhaps you could make an appeal for stories that women have told to mongers about their transportation to and from mongering transactions. I've personally talked to a lot of the women about how they travel to and from their business transactions. (BTW, taxi fare given to p4ps after the deed do not always go to taxi fare; I suspect many of these women end up using jeepneys or buses at about a tenth the price and then pocket the difference.) There are some occasional posts about mongers paying transport on buses and planes to women to come in out of the provinces, so those are useful data.

A next paper could address possible taxation systems that the Philippines might apply that actually encourage rather then discourage the market. They do already have a taxation system, of course: formally, there are taxes built into taxi, jeepney, bus and airport usage. And informally there are the bribes that corrupt police impose, some of which have been told recently in the Manila thread. So maybe formalizing the taxation would actually make the system more stable and be less of a tourist detractant. Or maybe it just makes it all more expensive. A reasonable question, don't you think?

Since I have been one of the worst offenders about posts here related to research proposals that will never see the light of day, I recommend you just go ahead and do this and report back after you're done. No need for a lot of drawn out silliness here. I apologize; sometimes I get bored and just can't help myself.

[FreebieFan]

A developer sends me an email stating they are about to pre-sell a select new condo development in Fort Bonifacio with a variety of apartment sizes etc.

I reply requesting prices and square footage for the various units.

He replies that he can't tell me the price as its confidential but that the standard would be similar to Rockwell.

He then assures me that he can reserve me a nice unit for a down payment of US1, 300, but because its confidential he can't tell me the size of the unit or the price per sq foot / metre.

The amazing thing is this new condo block will probably sell out as the developer is well known. But never ever in my life have I paid for anything without knowing what I was buying (paid sex excluded of course!)

[Soapy Smith]

And of course the Ft. Bonifacio properties are among the most expensive in all of Metro Manila. Odd indeed.

[FreebieFan]

And of course the Ft. Bonifacio properties are among the most expensive in all of Metro Manila. Odd indeed.Today, the developer sends me an email saying that if I specify a floor he will give me a price. Doesn't say what size the units are on any particular floor of course. This is the weirdest way ever of selling a product. Then again, its The Philippines and one of the most successful developers.

[MadisonGuy]

Sounds pretty shady, maybe you need to try and play his game. Right now he's the big developer and you're a nobody, maybe you need to pretend like you're more than just a 1 unit buyer, you'll be buying floors but for banking purposes you need a price break down. Just a thought but some people think because they've made it they don't have to play by normal rules and you have to find a way to bring them back down to planet Earth. To me it sounds fishy and unless I knew the guy personally I would walk away.

[Slippery]

FF you have been in and around Phils more than me. Is it really the developer?

[FreebieFan]

FF you have been in and around Phils more than me. Is it really the developer?Yes it really is the developer, and my emails are coming from an employee of Megaworld. They are launching a project called One Uptown Residences.

Today I finally get the full price list. And whats amusing, as with all these projects is the top 8 floors of both towers are amazingly "reserved".

The reserved units are then given to family, to friends of family, to people who have helped the project (no guesses for who they might be ). So if you were a buyer and you wanted a prime unit instead of the also rans, you would be out of luck. Not only that, but in not selling the upper more prestigious units, the developer is passing onto you, the purchaser the cost or value of these prestigious units that they will be giving away. Amazing.

[LoveAsianWhores]

A developer sends me an email stating they are about to pre-sell a select new condo development in Fort Bonifacio with a variety of apartment sizes etc.

I reply requesting prices and square footage for the various units.

He replies that he can't tell me the price as its confidential but that the standard would be similar to Rockwell.

He then assures me that he can reserve me a nice unit for a down payment of US1, 300, but because its confidential he can't tell me the size of the unit or the price per sq foot / metre.

The amazing thing is this new condo block will probably sell out as the developer is well known. But never ever in my life have I paid for anything without knowing what I was buying (paid sex excluded of course!) Been there, done that. Pre-sales are not what they seem. I fell into that trap a couple of years ago. I paid 25M, five years ago for a prime property. The seller was Ayala. When the property was developed, it turned out that my unit was placed right next to a stock room, instead of lush greenery that the marketing materials indicated. When it came to sell, my property was "worth" 40M. I put the property on the market for 32M, as I wanted to sell quickly, and all my neighbors were upset that I was selling too cheap and would lower market prices for the village. Well, at the end of the day, I found no buyers and ended up selling the property at auction. It was heavily marketed (to the best that I could, but I do not own malls all over the country to market my property) , but only three people showed up and the high bid was 17M (and that was from my next door neighbor who is extreemly wealthy and was helping me out.) Fortunately, from a US$ perspective, I did not lose much becuase when I bought the property it was 53 pesos to the dollar. But here is the kicker; Ayala is, right now, pre-selling units in another phase of the development, and they are SELLING LIKE HOT CAKES!

So, for those you who may be thinking about buying a pre-sale, think again. The re-sale market is where the bargains are. And just becuase re-sale prices may appear high, you will find that many sellers will take MUCH less than the asking price. This is not a sophisticated market, with easy access to comparable sales, and actual resale prices tend to be much lower than what people are asking.

[LoveAsianWhores]

One more thing I should add is that there are great deals to be had on the rental market. Lots of people have bought units, with the intention of renting them out, only to find that there are not enough renters to go around. This is especially acute in the high end of the market. Now that I am out of the home ownership game (certainly for life based on my experiance) , I had an agent see what was available for 100, 000 a month. She came back with a list of a few units, and one really high end unit, but the rent was 150, 000 per month. That was out of my price range, but I wanted to see what was available at that level. Now, this place was so spectacular, that I fell in love with the place. But my budget was 100, 000 a month, and that was max. The unit had been on the market for some time, so I figured that I would make an offer of 100, 000 per month, because you never know. The agent made a phone call, and half an hour later my offer was accepted. A 33% reduction in the rent just like that! Also, westerners are considered preferred renters as we have a good reputation for taking care of a place, so you will find that we can often get better deals than others (I won't go into who are not preferred, as it may upset some people).

Makes me wonder, that maybe I should have offered 80, 000.

[MadisonGuy]

I'm looking quite seriously at moving me and my business to the Philippines. All money will still be made in the US so I don't need to worry about problems over there. My big concern are 2 things. Is the internet actually fast enough to carry a good VOIP connection. And I see people renting things for over 2k a month which to me would be kind of pointless to move, will I be able to get something in what would be like a middle class home or condo here in the states for $500 or less? Any help would be much appreciated here or in PM. I wouldn't be against sharing a place with someone if it was that much nicer to do so, I would really like a nice condo in Makati but I'm not seeing anything I like in that price range. Also what would be the visa charge for staying there for a year?

[Member #4491]

I would really like a nice condo in Makati but I'm not seeing anything I like in that price range.I have done many Skype tele conferences from my office. I can imagine that ADSL is even more stable in most parts of Manila than just about any corner of undeveloped Mindanao.

Hell. 500 USD is more than 20 000 PHP. Why not head south and take this pearl for 3500 PHP? .

http://www.tipidsale.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=256429&sid=140da2c3550cfd172650fd18ea416ed0

Another site to browse is this one:

http://www.ayosdito.ph/li?fs=1&ca=14_s&th=1&q=&cg=2000&w=1&st=a

B.

[Frenzy3]

The internet her sucks you need 2 service providers, globe and sky would be the first 2 to pick, voip is a bit lagging but works when the net is working, brown outs still happen. As for $500 I rent at $200 but elec cost me $200 pm PHP10k. I am in cebu in labangon when I was in happy valley the house cost alot more $600 and so did the elec $400+. Price was not the reason I moved. Jealousy.

[Fast Buck Artist]

I'm looking quite seriously at moving me and my business to the Philippines. All money will still be made in the US so I don't need to worry about problems over there. My big concern are 2 things. Is the internet actually fast enough to carry a good VOIP connection.The telecom network has improved from the early days when it was shockingly bad. You can get a decent ADSL connection if you setup shop in a business district. I get 50ms pings to machines within Phils. 200ms to those in taiwan in Singapore, and 400ms to US / Europe. A VOIP chat with overseas will have enough delay in it to notice its VOIP chat. If you are in a province, the net is crap, it drops out when it rains, and some days the electricity drops as well.


And I see people renting things for over 2k a month which to me would be kind of pointless to move, will I be able to get something in what would be like a middle class home or condo here in the states for $500 or less? Any help would be much appreciated here or in PM.You can get cheap rent, but you'll be in a small dinghole in a slum with no aircon. Thats exactly how most locals live. Something decent starts at $300 a month, cheaper than the west but remember some things are not available at any price. For example being able to breathe clean air. Or move around freely (traffic and roads are horrible countrywide). Or a nice jog through a clean beach downstairs from your Florida condo. Forget these things if you move to Phils.

The benefits of life in the 3rd world basically boil down to 2 things:
1. Cheap Pussy
2. Cheap Labor
Everything else will annoy and frustrate you daily.

[MadisonGuy]

Why do the call centers set up shop there if the signals are that bad for VOIP? And why is electricity so high, how do locals afford that?

[GoodEnough]

And why is electricity so high, how do locals afford that?Electricity costs are high first, because there's so little investment in the power sector. Second because there's no competition, and the enormously high profits are shared with venal, corrupt politicians who ensure the absence of competition. Third, there's so much electricity stolen and never paid for that those who do pay make up the fees lost from those who don't. Finally the generation and transmission facilities are old and poorly maintained so there's lots of load loss. So, poor, badly maintained infrastructure mixed with thoroughly corrupt politicians yields the highest electricity costs in Asia.

GE

[Fast Buck Artist]

So, for those you who may be thinking about buying a pre-sale, think again. The re-sale market is where the bargains are.Agreed and if you wait for a while the bargains are about to get a lot better. There are no less than 100 new condo developments all over the city. I see them everywhere springing up like cement mushrooms, one source counted as many as 189! http://pinoydreamhousetoday.com/the-condominium-boom-in-metro-manila/

Thats a lot of new condo supply! The resale market is going to get very buyer-friendly soon

[Fast Buck Artist]

why do the call centers set up shop there if the signals are that bad for voip? and why is electricity so high, how do locals afford that?here are some sample business wireup deals: http://site.globe.com.ph/web/business/products/item/pc/dsl?sid=tjoewcuxprcaaes63u8aaaefe

call centers: cheap labor. you can pay a highly skilled professional $500 a month and they'll be loyal to you and work unholy hours with no benefits asked for or expected. less than that if you setup shop in the province but then the infrastructure gets truly shit (forget voip there).

electric: as ge explained, a lot of people just steal it (hook up a cable to the pole) which is a maintenance headache and causes frequent blackouts / accidents.

you can get high speed broadband within makati, but the speeds will be high within the local network, the greater limitation is data capacity of the sea cables that connect phils with taiwan and asia, thats something you can do little about.

[Red Kilt]

Agreed and if you wait for a while the bargains are about to get a lot better. There are no less than 100 new condo developments all over the city. I see them everywhere springing up like cement mushrooms, one source counted as many as 189!

http://pinoydreamhousetoday.com/the-condominium-boom-in-metro-manila/

Thats a lot of new condo supply! The resale market is going to get very buyer-friendly soonInteresting link FBA.

The scary thing for me is the traffic congestion that will come from all the cars belonging to the residents in all of these new condos.

In Ortigas alone it is a nightmare just getting onto EDSA at the Shaw Boulevard crossing corner. Classic case of lack of infrastructure planning.

[MadisonGuy]

thanks for the great and thorough answers guys. so if i'm renting and electricity is included can i assume it is stolen? any good places to look for rentals in manila, craigslist seems like it might be [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) a foreigner site.

[GoodEnough]

I don't presume to be any sort of network expert, but the transmission capacity in Davao must be sufficient to support VOIP given the huge number of large call centers proliferating here. There's one next to my office, and it's got it's own huge generator to ensure a steady supply of power.

GE

[Simian]

The company I work for is buying a condo in Makati and I will probably be staying there for extended periods of time from next year. Of course, like all condos in that part of Manila, there are guards and it would appear that all visitors are registered. This adds an extra edge to the "walk of shame".

How do you longterm Makati residents handle this? Do you find that the guards / receptionists are discrete or do they blab to everyone or make a big deal? It would make it so nice if I could just bring home a freelancer to the condo rather than trying to find accomodation elsewhere just to do the deed. My regular gf will be visiting from abroad and I am concerned that word will get back to her or to my work colleagues / bosses. Any comments from you Makati residents are most welcome.

[SergeantRay]

Do you find that the guards / receptionists are discrete or do they blab to everyone or make a big deal? It would make it so nice if I could just bring home a freelancer to the condo rather than trying to find accomodation elsewhere just to do the deed. My regular gf will be visiting from abroad and I am concerned that word will get back to her or to my work colleagues / bosses. Any comments from you Makati residents are most welcome.Unfortunately, you can expect Filipinos to blab. All cultures gossip, but Filipinos excel at it. Also, imagine you are a guard standing around at a condo / hotel for eight to ten hours a day, with nothing happening. Observing and commenting on foreigners coming in with chicks that you'll never bang is your only source of amusement in an otherwise dreary job.

Even worse, you can expect a guard / maid / janitor to be related to everyone in the world, including Kevin Bacon, so word gets back to your gf. Worse still, you can give a Filipino guy 2500 or 25, 000 pesos for medical treatment and he will rat on you in a moment, telling your gf he saw you at the mall with another woman. As I see it, every Filipino you know is just one more person who will snitch on you.

Ironically, the Filipino talent of gossip does not include informing you, or relaying anything to you that would be helpful. I met one ex-pat whose wife was cheating on him, and the whole town knew but never said a word to him. There can be a party or a fiesta 100 yards down the road, but no one will inform you. The same Filipino who knows every detail of your sex life can't give you coherent directions to the corner store.

If your gf doesn't speak Filipino, you may be safe. But if she's a Filipina and speaks Tagalog, you're screwed. That's why there are the short time hotels, or some rich guys just keep separate houses or apartments. You may just have to view a short-time hotel as the price of preserving your relationship.

[Frenzy3]

I don't presume to be any sort of network expert, but the transmission capacity in Davao must be sufficient to support VOIP given the huge number of large call centers proliferating here. There's one next to my office, and it's got it's own huge generator to ensure a steady supply of power.

GEVoIP is banned in PI so most call centre would be using the telco lines and paying the fees. The telco would have qos that is what they are charging for. I call landlines rather than use skype due to lagging.

[MadisonGuy]

VoIP is banned in PI so most call centre would be using the telco lines and paying the fees. The telco would have qos that is what they are charging for. I call landlines rather than use skype due to lagging.What kind of rates go with the telco lines? The guys that call me from there always seem to make up their phone numbers because my caller I'd always shows really weird numbers.

[MadisonGuy]

The company I work for is buying a condo in Makati and I will probably be staying there for extended periods of time from next year. Of course, like all condos in that part of Manila, there are guards and it would appear that all visitors are registered. This adds an extra edge to the "walk of shame".

How do you longterm Makati residents handle this? Do you find that the guards / receptionists are discrete or do they blab to everyone or make a big deal? It would make it so nice if I could just bring home a freelancer to the condo rather than trying to find accomodation elsewhere just to do the deed. My regular gf will be visiting from abroad and I am concerned that word will get back to her or to my work colleagues / bosses. Any comments from you Makati residents are most welcome.I had a buddy like you, he was really concerned about what his neighbors thought. Only would bring home girls if they looked rich or foreign. I think you man up and say my name is Simian and I'm a working girl monger. Shit I tell me wife so I sure wouldn't care about neighbors.

[Fast Buck Artist]

regarding the "walk of shame". i don't recommend bringing monkey business to your house. some of these girls are drug users (and carry it with them) , some steal, some are mentally ill, some **** and lie to you about it. on more than one occasion i had trouble getting them to leave. there was one crazy shrew i had to literally carry out kicking and screaming. keep in mind prostitution is illegal here. do you want all this in your home?

there are plenty of cheap hourly hotels around, my fave is the sogo chain that caters to guys like us. its made clear by the large mirror on the ceiling above the bed (nice!) and the tv set to the porn channel by default. 600pesos and its yours to use. saves travel time too.


thanks for the great and thorough answers guys. so if i'm renting and electricity is included can i assume it is stolen? any good places to look for rentals in manila, craigslist seems like it might be [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) a foreigner site.

www.olx.com.ph
www.sulit.ph

when bargaining, ask if the price is all inclusive.. often they'll list the price they actually want as profit, then try to add on "association dues" and other 3rd party costs to it once you have committed.

[X Man]

Well written, informative, and even humourous. Thanks for the great post SR. You almost convinced me that I should never live in the Philippines. Unless I can afford several love pads.


Unfortunately, you can expect Filipinos to blab. All cultures gossip, but Filipinos excel at it. Also, imagine you are a guard standing around at a condo / hotel for eight to ten hours a day, with nothing happening. Observing and commenting on foreigners coming in with chicks that you'll never bang is your only source of amusement in an otherwise dreary job.

Even worse, you can expect a guard / maid / janitor to be related to everyone in the world, including Kevin Bacon, so word gets back to your gf. Worse still, you can give a Filipino guy 2500 or 25, 000 pesos for medical treatment and he will rat on you in a moment, telling your gf he saw you at the mall with another woman. As I see it, every Filipino you know is just one more person who will snitch on you.

Ironically, the Filipino talent of gossip does not include informing you, or relaying anything to you that would be helpful. I met one ex-pat whose wife was cheating on him, and the whole town knew but never said a word to him. There can be a party or a fiesta 100 yards down the road, but no one will inform you. The same Filipino who knows every detail of your sex life can't give you coherent directions to the corner store.

If your gf doesn't speak Filipino, you may be safe. But if she's a Filipina and speaks Tagalog, you're screwed. That's why there are the short time hotels, or some rich guys just keep separate houses or apartments. You may just have to view a short-time hotel as the price of preserving your relationship.

[Maple Red]

One more thing I should add is that there are great deals to be had on the rental market. Lots of people have bought units, with the intention of renting them out, only to find that there are not enough renters to go around. This is especially acute in the high end of the market. Now that I am out of the home ownership game (certainly for life based on my experiance) , I had an agent see what was available for 100, 000 a month. She came back with a list of a few units, and one really high end unit, but the rent was 150, 000 per month. That was out of my price range, but I wanted to see what was available at that level. Now, this place was so spectacular, that I fell in love with the place. But my budget was 100, 000 a month, and that was max. The unit had been on the market for some time, so I figured that I would make an offer of 100, 000 per month, because you never know. The agent made a phone call, and half an hour later my offer was accepted. A 33% reduction in the rent just like that! Also, westerners are considered preferred renters as we have a good reputation for taking care of a place, so you will find that we can often get better deals than others (I won't go into who are not preferred, as it may upset some people).

Makes me wonder, that maybe I should have offered 80, 000.Interesting. Care to share some of the details of this really high end unit? I'd like to learn what that level of rent will provide in the PI.

[SergeantRay]

d cups,

i can't claim credit as a service member. the name is actually an imaginary friend i had as a child.

as long as i'm here, fast buck artist has a good point. if you bring a girl back to a nice condo, that means you're not just a "rich" foreigner, but a very rich foreigner. i've known of guys who have had stalkers. or, you're with your foreign gf and there's a knock at the door. oops!

if you are being set up for the **** / [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) / married woman scam, it's probably good if she doesn't know your permanent address.

[FreebieFan]

Unfortunately, you can expect Filipinos to blab. All cultures gossip, but Filipinos excel at it. Also, imagine you are a guard standing around at a condo / hotel for eight to ten hours a day, with nothing happening. Observing and commenting on foreigners coming in with chicks that you'll never bang is your only source of amusement in an otherwise dreary job.

Even worse, you can expect a guard / maid / janitor to be related to everyone in the world, including Kevin Bacon, so word gets back to your gf. Worse still, you can give a Filipino guy 2500 or 25, 000 pesos for medical treatment and he will rat on you in a moment, telling your gf he saw you at the mall with another woman. As I see it, every Filipino you know is just one more person who will snitch on you.

If your gf doesn't speak Filipino, you may be safe. But if she's a Filipina and speaks Tagalog, you're screwed. That's why there are the short time hotels, or some rich guys just keep separate houses or apartments. You may just have to view a short-time hotel as the price of preserving your relationship.Fortunately in past 5 years I've had a different experience. Got bored of taking girls to Sogo as 3 hours banging also means one hour stuck in mind numbingly dull traffic so have taken many back to my condo. Fortuntely my car park space in basement is close to elevators and rarely see a guard. When I'm alone I make a big deal of letting all guards see me alone etc. But when I'm with a girl, we quietly go to the apartment. As my wife regularly also goes to the aprtment I live in permanent fear that a mouthy guard will spill the beans but 5 years on and no beans spilt. I guess its how discreetly you do it. And for sure, my girls are always with me and never get a chance to talk to anyone in my apartment building. They rarely know the address either.

[Dickhead]

Mongering is like you meet all your imaginary friends from childhood, and then you get to fuck them.

[Ekspat]

Friends,

Recently I've got my long-time retirement visa in the Phillies, maybe one day I move from Malaysia over there or rent an additional appartement in PI.

Where would you choose to live? Makati? Or Quezon? A beach house in Palawan? Iloilo? Maybe Cebu? Angeles? (For me no way, AC is out of question.)

Or maybe let's say somewhere between AC and Manila, as Malolos for example? Smaller City with a quarter of a million poeple. Located between AC and Manila, should have all what's necessary, even has a University and from the location you might be in either AC or Manila relatively quick and you have two airports nearby. Important for me, I might commute between Malaysia and PI for a while.

Thoughts any?

Cheers!

[RasSpewtin]

Friends,

Recently I've got my long-time retirement visa in the Phillies, maybe one day I move from Malaysia over there or rent an additional appartement in PI.

Where would you choose to live? Makati? Or Quezon? A beach house in Palawan? Iloilo? Maybe Cebu? Angeles? (For me no way, AC is out of question.)

Or maybe let's say somewhere between AC and Manila, as Malolos for example? Smaller City with a quarter of a million poeple. Located between AC and Manila, should have all what's necessary, even has a University and from the location you might be in either AC or Manila relatively quick and you have two airports nearby. Important for me, I might commute between Malaysia and PI for a while.

Thoughts any?

Cheers!Hi, Ekspat;

I have not been to all of the places that you mention, but am quite familiar with Makati and spent a couple of weeks in Cebu a few years ago. I am also considering retirement in the Phils one day, and at the moment I am leaning towards Cebu. It is a medium-sized city with all of the ammenities that you would need, and probably considerably less costly than Makati. Cebu has a nice enough beach, has a sizable expat community, and has lots of lovely Cebuanas.

Regarding Makati, there are some nice apartments there and many luxury apartments available for lease or sale. But the thing is that you are in the middle of a large city, too far from the country side in my view. As for the smaller places you mentioned I would be hesitant for several reasons, including immediate access to healthcare if something goes wrong when I reach that age. All in all I think that Cebu City is a pretty good choice, and would like to hear what the other guys have to say.

Raz.

Raz

[FreebieFan]

Friends,

Recently I've got my long-time retirement visa in the Phillies, maybe one day I move from Malaysia over there or rent an additional appartement in PI.

Where would you choose to live? Makati? Or Quezon? A beach house in Palawan? Iloilo? Maybe Cebu? Angeles? (For me no way, AC is out of question.)

Or maybe let's say somewhere between AC and Manila, as Malolos for example? Smaller City with a quarter of a million poeple. Located between AC and Manila, should have all what's necessary, even has a University and from the location you might be in either AC or Manila relatively quick and you have two airports nearby. Important for me, I might commute between Malaysia and PI for a while.

Thoughts any?

Cheers!Hi Ex. I understand the question well, and a few other members here are like me, and you, are thinking about what do to, but not quite up to the stage of doing.

Firstly, Palawan would drive you crazy. Very quiet and laid back and good for a vacation but too quiet for living.

There are places in Manila that are actually peaceful. Think McKinley Hill, think Alabang, think some of the better villages in Paranaque, think Nuvali further south. Close to Manila but not in it.

Have one place as a base then take vacations from there, ie shagging vacations in AC, beach vacations in Palawan, roti canai vacations in Malaysia. Cebu is the choice of many and there are several good websites that are dedicated to retirees living in Cebu. Baguio is also a choice of many but too far from an aiport.

Be interested to see what you eventually decide.

[Fast Buck Artist]

Friends,

Where would you choose to live? Makati? Or Quezon? A beach house in Palawan? Iloilo? Maybe Cebu? Angeles? (For me no way, AC is out of question.)

Thoughts any?

Cheers!I am of no retirement age, when the time comes I guess I would retire in Florida.
Philippines? Well if you are really that masochistic and enjoy hurting yourself.

- Subic is an area where you could have the closest thing to a western type living.
- Manila has the best infrastructure but also the worst traffic and pollution.
- try Camiguin island or Bohol if you like a more rural type setting with some greenery and nature.
- Angeles City or Cebu if all you care about is cheap pussy and don't mind the horrors of third world slums

[Chocha Monger]

I am of no retirement age, when the time comes I guess I would retire in Florida.

Philippines? Well if you are really that masochistic and enjoy hurting yourself.

- Subic is an area where you could have the closest thing to a western type living.

- Manila has the best infrastructure but also the worst traffic and pollution.

- try Camiguin island or Bohol if you like a more rural type setting with some greenery and nature.

- Angeles City or Cebu if all you care about is cheap pussy and don't mind the horrors of third world slumsI think you seriously underestimate what most men would endure for some young pussy at any price. Mongers die on a daily basis chasing cheap young ass in Third World ghettoes around the globe.

[GoodEnough]

I'd like to offer an alternate point of view to that of Fast Buck Artist. The fact is, that if you've got a reasonable amount of money you can have a great life here, probably in a nicer house than you could afford in the US, with full-time house help. You can play golf, or tennis or go swimming or diving almost anytime you like, and you rarely have to worry about whether you can afford something. You can eat well, buying whatever Western food appeals to you and in whatever quantities you like. To cite five areas of the country as if these represented the only alternatives for retirement is absurd, given the variety of cities, towns and more rural areas that are also viable possibilities.

Granted, the Philippines is not for everyone; it's a corrupt, often dysfunctional third world country that's probably not going to improve significantly during our collective lifetime. Nonetheless, it's perfectly possible to have a high quality, productive and enjoyable life here with all or most of the amenities one would enjoy in the West. I'd recommend against basing one's retirement exclusively, or mostly on the availability of cheap pussy, since trust me, it gets old in a hurry. There are, however, additional attractions deriving from the significantly lower prices, even in view of the dramatically devalued dollar.

GE

[Sammon]

Friends,

Recently I've got my long-time retirement visa in the Phillies, maybe one day I move from Malaysia over there or rent an additional appartement in PI.

Where would you choose to live? Makati? Or Quezon? A beach house in Palawan? Iloilo? Maybe Cebu? Angeles? (For me no way, AC is out of question.)

Or maybe let's say somewhere between AC and Manila, as Malolos for example? Smaller City with a quarter of a million poeple. Located between AC and Manila, should have all what's necessary, even has a University and from the location you might be in either AC or Manila relatively quick and you have two airports nearby. Important for me, I might commute between Malaysia and PI for a while.

Thoughts any?

Cheers!My take on this is live in a place where you can have other expat residents. You need a circle of trustable friends around you in a foreign country.

If you live in isolated communities irrespective of you having a local wife, you become a target for extortion, donation, robbery etc. All foreigners are considered rich.

Never flash your money by buying expensive cars, expensive furniture etc. Live like a local does as inconspicously as possible in other words below the radar.

[Zip Lip]

Mongering is like you meet all your imaginary friends from childhood, and then you get to fuck them.Nomination for Posts of Distinction!

[Dickhead]

I would also like to offer an opposing view point to Fast Buck Artist: Florida sucks completely.

[Ekspat]

I am of no retirement age, when the time comes I guess I would retire in Florida.I'm not obese, I don't suffer from diabetes and I can't get a proper erection with a 55y / o fat widow.

Seems I don't have the necessary requirements to retire in Florida.

[FreebieFan]

I'm not obese, I don't suffer from diabetes and I can't get a proper erection with a 55y / o fat widow.

Seems I don't have the necessary requirements to retire in Florida.Eks. You are forgetting that you also have to have a great liking for mosquitoes, Pecan Pie and Key Lime Pie. Then you would fit right in.

[Soapy Smith]

I would also like to offer an opposing view point to Fast Buck Artist: Florida sucks completely. Florida is not far removed from the Third World, geographically and figuratively. While Mississippi, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Alabama have some social indicators that are worse, the motto of Florida politics is "every man for himself." The state is pulled in many directions by regional factions who never seem to find common interests. The state is at the bottom of the pile in citizens' contributions to charity, volunteer hours, government support for higher education, and pay to teachers. The present and past Governor have been hell-bent on selling off (figuratively) the furniture, plumbing and electrical fixtures, and the buildings themselves to their campaign contributors, who then use them to make guaranteed profits doing work that is automatically funded from government coffers. The manufactured mob that forced its way into the Miami office and forced a stop to the counting of ballots in 2000 is typical of Florida politics. Remember, Cuba was a mob-controlled dictatorship under Batista, and those elements moved to and took over Miami from 1959 onward. Numerous Latin American coups were hatched in the tall buildings along Brickell Avenue southward from the drawbridge over the Miami River. The economy of the state is based on dressing up in cartoon costumes, making up hotel beds and waiting on tables, maintaining golf courses and swimming pools, giving bed baths and cleaning up bed pans after dying old people, and exterminating termites and cockroaches. The devaluation of education is translating to an uneducated workforce that you wouldn't want to depend on for your day-to-day existence as a retiree. Don't retire to Florida!

[Hookup09]

Hi I was wondering if anyone knew what the typical cost would be for a root canal in Philliphines also could you recommend a dentist or 2.

Thanks

[Bob Bowie]

Hi I was wondering if anyone knew what the typical cost would be for a root canal in Philliphines also could you recommend a dentist or 2.

ThanksHttp://maniladentalservices.com/

http://www.dydent.com/index.htm

I have had a lot of work done at the second site. Makati has many quality dentists. I would guess the cost of the dental work is about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of the same service in the US. I know the cost is less in Cebu and Davao, but I have not used them myself.

I suggest you email a couple of them with requirements, most of them will respond quickly to your request.

[Sammon]

Hi I was wondering if anyone knew what the typical cost would be for a root canal in Philliphines also could you recommend a dentist or 2.

ThanksI had taken my barfine in AC to a dentist to the mall near fields because she was in extreme pain in the morning. The lady dentist was very good. Dentist told me that the tooth needs root canal work. The cost was 3000 pesos for the back tooth but requires many visits.

The girl decided to have the tooth pulled. I paid 800 pesos for that all inclusive with antibiotics and pain killers.

So I guess root canal is quite cheap. But the quality of the work will be known only after few months if it worked.

[MauiDude]

Hi I was wondering if anyone knew what the typical cost would be for a root canal in Philliphines also could you recommend a dentist or 2.

ThanksDentist in angeles next to dirty duck on fields avenue.

She is very good. Maybe 15.000 complete. With quality work.

[Hookup09]

Hello all,

I appreciate the feedback and the advice / information.

[Hookup09]

Hello guys,

I was wondering what typical hobbies (besides barhopping! LOL) some of you partake of while in Manila and AC. As for myself I like to hit the gym and have been thinking of doing boxing or some other similar sport, mostly to stay in shape and to keep my mind well functioning.

[Ekspat]

I was wondering what typical hobbies (besides barhopping! LOL) some of you partake of while in Manila and AC.Except barhopping? None, hehe!

In Malaysia I play some golf.

Cheers!

[Sammon]

Hello, guys,

I was wondering what typical hobbies (besides barhopping! LOL) some of you partake of while in Manila and AC. As for myself I like to hit the gym and have been thinking of doing boxing or some other similar sport, mostly to stay in shape and to keep my mind well functioning.1. Get into a argument with a trike guy-You will get boxing lessons by one or many.

2. Try to pick up a girl with boyfriend at a disco- you will get sport maybe a gun battle.

3. Wander around drunk at night. You will get enough exercise and maybe end up dead.

Stick to barhopping and bed hopping with all the willing girls. Sex is the best exercise for your heart and mind.

[Hookup09]

1. Get into a argument with a trike guy-You will get boxing lessons by one or many.

2. Try to pick up a girl with boyfriend at a disco- you will get sport maybe a gun battle.

3. Wander around drunk at night. You will get enough exercise and maybe end up dead.

Stick to barhopping and bed hopping with all the willing girls. Sex is the best exercise for your heart and mind.Hi Sammon I will take that as a no for you but I like your style LOL!

[Frenzy3]

Hello, guys,

I was wondering what typical hobbies (besides barhopping! LOL) some of you partake of while in Manila and AC. As for myself I like to hit the gym and have been thinking of doing boxing or some other similar sport, mostly to stay in shape and to keep my mind well functioning.The Pino fight with sticks, rocks, knifes and guns, so I would avoid the boxing. As for gyms keep a low profile or expect to pay.

As the other posts my hobbies and sport involve a mattress.

[White Whale]

. The Filipinos are quite musical.Wow what a understatement! The national leisure time second to eating Adobo is the Videoke. On my first trip to AC I visited a bar girl's living quarters. A concrete slum yard full of bare ass children but they had the Videoke equipment.

[Member #4351]

Can anyone recommend a Dr. Or where to go if someone wants to get a baby circumcised in Cebu?

[Screaming Beaver]

Can anyone recommend a Dr. Or where to go if someone wants to get a baby circumcised in Cebu?No I don't and if I did I would not be a participant in that kind of barbaric behavior against a small child. Do people still do that to babies?

[Member #4351]

They did it to me and I'm happy they did. But no one asked for your opinion so f*** off and take your smegma with you.

[PolyOrchid]

They did it to me and I'm happy they did. But no one asked for your opinion so f*** off and take your smegma with you.I'll sit this one out but, David, that "take your smegma with you" made my day.

[WestCoast1]

No I don't and if I did I would not be a participant in that kind of barbaric behavior against a small child. Do people still do that to babies?Yes. It's still the norm in the US.

[Red Kilt]

Yes. It's still the norm in the US.And very normal in the PI too. Virtually ALL men are circumsized.

David. You must have encountered the weird initiation rites that boys go through at age 8 to 12 here (especially in the provinces) to get the skin lopped off.

Much more sensible to do it via a doctor and in a surgery and while the boy is still a baby.

Any surgeon will do it for you. I asked my surgeon friend here in Manila and he said it is actually a very very easy task for any doctor.

[FreebieFan]

I'll sit this one out but, David, that "take your smegma with you" made my day.Long long time back when I was 16 we were asked to do a school play which we did with a a series of skits and fake talent shows. Being keen to offend but not be overly offensivce to the teachers one such skit was about a band called Knobby and The Crusty Smegmas. Yeah teenage humour!

[Frenzy3]

They did it to me and I'm happy they did. But no one asked for your opinion so f*** off and take your smegma with you.LOL classic I could not have thought a better reply.

[GoodEnough]

No I don't and if I did I would not be a participant in that kind of barbaric behavior against a small child. Do people still do that to babies?It's probably still the norm in most of the world, and a requirement in Muslim and Jewish cultures. I'm told the infant feels very little pain as nerves in the penis are not well developed at so young an age. I do recall that when we had it done to my son as part of a ritual, he barely grunted and did not cry. I've observed many circumcisions and have yet to see the baby shed a tear.

GE

[Member #4491]

I could not give a rat's ass what part people cut of their children to make them feel in touch with a higher force or their ancestors, but IMHO it is still a ritual and all such human activities / hangups deserve some reconsideration once every thousand years or so. At least in the sake of allowing the freedom of having or not having a religion, both as a child and as an adult. And then on the other hand we make constant choices for our kids, so it is not an easy question. Once again it just easier to not be opinionated. Nihilistic Zen is the only way forward. .

But this is not a place to discuss neither politics or religion, so to get back to the question, I thought most surgeon in Cebu would do it if you just pay them.

The second result on Google is this one:

http://www.ntunda.com/holychildclinic

And this one just a few results down:

http://img.***********.com/albums/v137/alesara2/32943044-9ae0-02000180-.jpg

But then I stumbled over this one:

http://www.cirp.org/news/tempo08-21-05/

Obviously you should just do it, and not talk about it.

Best regards.

B.

[Member #4491]

And this one just a few results down:

http://img.***********.com/albums/v137/alesara2/32943044-9ae0-02000180-.jpgThe URL was not liked by ISG so here is the pic.

B.

[Screaming Beaver]

It's probably still the norm in most of the world, and a requirement in Muslim and Jewish cultures. I'm told the infant feels very little pain as nerves in the penis are not well developed at so young an age. I do recall that when we had it done to my son as part of a ritual, he barely grunted and did not cry. I've observed many circumcisions and have yet to see the baby shed a tear.

GENo, it is not the norm in most of the world to cut off the tip of your Childs penis. Most of the world has realized it is an unnecessary procedure and tantamount to child abuse. Even in the USA, the circumcision rates continue to drop every year. Regarding your assertion that babies don't even shed a tear, read this:

http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm

In a few years this crazy form of torture will only be practiced by the most fanatical religious cults such as Jews and Muslims

[Member #4351]

Obviously you should just do it, and not talk about it.Not me, someone asked me about it and I was sure that someone on the forum would have some information. Thanks a lot.

[Member #4244]

No, it is not the norm in most of the world to cut off the tip of your Childs penis. Most of the world has realized it is an unnecessary procedure and tantamount to child abuse. Even in the USA, the circumcision rates continue to drop every year. Regarding your assertion that babies don't even shed a tear, read this:

http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm

In a few years this crazy form of torture will only be practiced by the most fanatical religious cults such as Jews and MuslimsOh, puh-leez, the anti-circumcision facists strike again!

Form of torture, get the fuck out of here! When it IS tortuous is when you're an older man and you have to have it done for medical reasons (not the norm but it happens frequently enough) or when you've got an infection in your foreskin and it hurts like hell.

And lmao@cults, there will be two billion muslims in the world soon enough, pretty big "cult."

The main drawback is diminished sensitivity but that's not always a bad thing. Plus I bet your dick is fucking UGLY.

[Dickhead]

I am a helmet and not an anteater, and personally I am glad of it. OTOH some non-cut friends say it is better for jerking off, to be uncut. "It provides a sheath" was the comment that made the most sense to me as a helmet. But jerking off is sort of lame, as a goal, and more so if you are a monger. Where I live the norm is uncut so the women like it that I am cut. They say it seems cleaner to them. This could all be cultural envy. Although I don't trust the US government too much, they are not the only ones saying that circumcision is negatively correlated with HIV transmission.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm

That's good enough for me (not that website in isolation but the totality of my research). I don't have any sons but I would probably circumcise them if I did (unless my feminazi wife interevened). Of course, you could let them decide for themselves when they are 18 or 21 or whatever. They could already be HIV-positive by then, though, and you would probably feel guilty for not having them circumcised. Simultaneously you might feel guilty for raising an IV drug abuser who takes it up the ass but that is another subject (The Truth About AIDS forum).

Growing up in the US, I never saw an uncut penis until I was 21 and I didn't really recognize it as such at the time, and thought there was something wrong with it. I was working in a chemical plant and it was required to shower after work so I saw the same guy a few more times and the light finally went on. Seems pretty ridiculous looking back on it. Now I have seen many and they still look like they have something wrong with them but I am sure that is just my acculturation.

To me, the bottom line is that I have now heard multiple women say they will BBBJ guys who are cut and won't BBBJ guys who are not. Throwing a big glob of smegma into the equation would seem to validate my conclusion.

[Paul C]

A couple things I've been thinking about lately.

1. Retiring in Manila?

I've been in Manila for three years. By next year, I should have a few sources of semi-passive income, which (along with interest from my savings) is enough that I could retire here at a relatively young age. Now, this might sound great to most people but I'm struggling with this idea. Most of my closest friends and family are back in the US, and if I retire here it's like I'll be abandoning my old life back home and starting a new life here. I value relationships a lot, but I also value my very comfortable life here.

2. Starting a family here? Or not.

It's always been in the back of my mind that some day I'll get married and start a family. I guess due to the biological drive to reproduce or natural selection or whatever it is that makes humans want to pass on their genes. But after living here in Manila, I don't see myself settling down, possibly ever. There are too many temptations and there is no way that I'd remain faithful to my girlfriend / wife. I'm not sure how I feel about having kids anymore. For as long as I can remember, I thought it'd be fun and rewarding to raise kids, play with them and shape them into great human beings, but kids take up a lot of time, money and freedom. Call me selfish, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to make those sacrifices.

Any insight on either situation?

[Dickhead]

one thing i always say in response to the argument about continuing one's gene pool is: is it really all that great to begin with? only you can answer that. in pre-industrial societies children were an economic plus. to a large extent the philippines is still a pre-industrial country so they still have that mentality. but, in a more modern society, children are normally an economic minus. i don't have any because they seem to require large amounts of investment of both time and money, and also because a lot of women are lying wh@res who are not that great of mothers. plus i like pussy more than i like [CodeWord131] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131) so that's another factor to consider. if you want to propagate the species and continue the gene pool, concentrate on the quality of the mother. but what normally happens is you think you like some woman and you knock her up and then you are stuck.

i'm just sayin.'

[Brymor]

Oh, puh-leez, the anti-circumcision facists strike again!

Form of torture, get the fuck out of here! When it IS tortuous is when you're an older man and you have to have it done for medical reasons (not the norm but it happens frequently enough) or when you've got an infection in your foreskin and it hurts like hell.

And lmao@cults, there will be two billion muslims in the world soon enough, pretty big "cult."

The main drawback is diminished sensitivity but that's not always a bad thing. Plus I bet your dick is fucking UGLY.This post did make me laugh. Tell me why do you think it is normal to cut off part of your anatomy just because you MAY get an infection at a future date. Such an argument is completely pathetic, it is like saying everyone should have their tonsils or appendix removed as a baby to prevent infections later in life. Such a practice would be considered extremely unethical yet people think removing a perfectly natural part of your penis is acceptable to prevent infection in the future. AND I bet there are far more infections of tonsils or appendix in the world today than there are infections of foreskins.

I am uncut, I don't agree with cutting for religious reasons or for the prevention of infection but I accept others rights to exercise their free will, even if it means inflicting unecessary suffering on children too young to object or decide for themselves

[Member #4351]

Peter Gun,

Have a family in Cebu and live in Manila. Zip up to visit every few weeks. You will have your freedom and also proliferate your genes. Also since you aren´t living with the "wife" you will perhaps avoid future legal hassles.

[GoodEnough]

A couple things I've been thinking about lately.

1. Retiring in Manila?

I've been in Manila for three years. By next year, I should have a few sources of semi-passive income, which (along with interest from my savings) is enough that I could retire here at a relatively young age. Now, this might sound great to most people but I'm struggling with this idea. Most of my closest friends and family are back in the US, and if I retire here it's like I'll be abandoning my old life back home and starting a new life here. I value relationships a lot, but I also value my very comfortable life here.

2. Starting a family here? Or not.

It's always been in the back of my mind that some day I'll get married and start a family. I guess due to the biological drive to reproduce or natural selection or whatever it is that makes humans want to pass on their genes. But after living here in Manila, I don't see myself settling down, possibly ever. There are too many temptations and there is no way that I'd remain faithful to my girlfriend / wife. I'm not sure how I feel about having kids anymore. For as long as I can remember, I thought it'd be fun and rewarding to raise kids, play with them and shape them into great human beings, but kids take up a lot of time, money and freedom. Call me selfish, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to make those sacrifices.

Any insight on either situation?As one who more or less drifted into the life of an international vagabond 35 years or so ago, I'm more interested in the first question than the second, since it speaks directly to some thoughts I had during a short, recent visit back to the States a couple of weeks ago. During that visit I was-and not for the first time-struck by the perception of how out of sync I was during my brief re-immersion into American culture. Having lived outside my native country, where I have kids and family, for much of my adult life, I realized yet again that Wolf was right; you can't go home again, in the sense that you will never again entirely fit in.

I think it's inevitable that the longer you spend outside of your country, the more your world view changes, and it's also true that during your absence the culture itselef keeps changing. I think that the great advantage of an internationally peripetetic life is that you learn to fit in everywhere, but the downside is that you no longer belong anywhere. The fact is that you're never going to "belong" to this culture and in some sense, you will never be more than an interloper. Even in France, where I lived for years, and where I speak the language, I realized early on that I could never become truly French; could never participate totally in the culture or the society, and that's even more true in Asia, with cultural values and mores that are in many cases so radically different from those of the West. I don't know about the experiences of other expats, but I find that when I return to the States, and meet people whom I used to know in high school, or university or graduate school; people who have generally stayed in the same place their entire lives, we have little to talk about, and little in common. The conversations are usually short, since both parties realize the lack of common interest almost intuitively.

There's a lot that's positive about the life of an expatriate in general, and of an expatriate in a third world country more specifically. However, the failure to truly belong is an ineluctable fact, and I think those contemplating such a life should accept it as a condition of their cultural dislocation.

GE

[Sammon]

A couple things I've been thinking about lately.

1. Retiring in Manila?

I've been in Manila for three years. By next year, I should have a few sources of semi-passive income, which (along with interest from my savings) is enough that I could retire here at a relatively young age. Now, this might sound great to most people but I'm struggling with this idea. Most of my closest friends and family are back in the US, and if I retire here it's like I'll be abandoning my old life back home and starting a new life here. I value relationships a lot, but I also value my very comfortable life here.

2. Starting a family here? Or not.

It's always been in the back of my mind that some day I'll get married and start a family. I guess due to the biological drive to reproduce or natural selection or whatever it is that makes humans want to pass on their genes. But after living here in Manila, I don't see myself settling down, possibly ever. There are too many temptations and there is no way that I'd remain faithful to my girlfriend / wife. I'm not sure how I feel about having kids anymore. For as long as I can remember, I thought it'd be fun and rewarding to raise kids, play with them and shape them into great human beings, but kids take up a lot of time, money and freedom. Call me selfish, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to make those sacrifices.

Any insight on either situation?1. It does not take exorbitant amount of money to retire in Philippines. You need to have a mindset to live and absorb local culture (not talking about willing local girls) , traditions, infrastructure, food etc. There is a world of difference growing up in a affluent country and living in a third (or fourth) country. You cannot just look at the best of times you had mongering, visiting bars etc. When you live in any country long time you need to be prepared. Although I did not live in Phi long time, I did in China few years ago when everything was cheap (including girls) and dollar yuan rates were good. Even though you maybe thinking you can go back to your home country often it will not happen mainly because the airfare is expensive and you will feel alienated from your folks who have moved on as did you. If your mindset is right you will fit right into the laid back life in Philippines.

2. This question of having a family comes with lots of responsibilities. Do not do it if you are likely to abandon your wife and kids for whatever reason.

I have had several long time relationships with regular girls. But every time after sometime I got bored and looked for new conquests although the girls took care of my every need. I thinkl it is because easily available young girls. Once a monger always a monger even if claudia scheiffer is your wife. The pull of chase, conquest etc will pull you into that direction. If the availability is there and easy to get you will definitely indulge. I suggest having a gf not getting married. Have a child with her. Ofcourse you need to support both very well. Phi girls suddenly become lazy if somebody is supporting them. I have had girls drop out of school as well as leave steady job because I sent money.

Ofcourse in life having your own kid is a good experience. Cannot live and die alone.

[Red Kilt]

A couple things I've been thinking about lately.

1. Retiring in Manila?

I've been in Manila for three years. By next year, I should have a few sources of semi-passive income, which (along with interest from my savings) is enough that I could retire here at a relatively young age. Now, this might sound great to most people but I'm struggling with this idea. Most of my closest friends and family are back in the US, and if I retire here it's like I'll be abandoning my old life back home and starting a new life here. I value relationships a lot, but I also value my very comfortable life here.GE summed it up very well and I can include much of my own thinking in what he wrote.

I would just want to stress to you and to anyone else thinking of retiring here to make sure you understand clearly WHY you are doing it.

I live here because I work here and have done so for almost 15 years. There is NO WAY that I could have lived here so long unless I was gainfully occupied during the greater part of the year.

If anyone is contemplating retiring solely because of the plethora of available women then I suggest that is NOT a sufficient reason. Believe me, there is only so much pussy chasing you can do and after that? What then?

My difficulty will come when nobody will employ me or, even worse, when I can no longer work.

What will I do then? As GE says, it becomes more and more difficult to slot back in to a previous life and environment in the "West" after the excitement and diversity of SE Asia

[Cunning Stunt]

Guess that I am lucky and am able to do it but I now have the best of both worlds. I spend 5 months of the European winter (now) in The Philippines and 5 months of the European summer (when it is unbearably hot or rainy here) living near London. The other 2 months are spent traveling. This ensures that I never get overly bored with a place and have plenty of diversions (London now has some of the best and cheapest mongering opportunities in Europe). Needless to say, here you are constantly falling over willing and available young ladies.

I really would not wish to spend the whole year in The Philippines. I love the place to bits and have some great friends here, but the place does start to rub me up the wrong way if I spend too long here. I would advise anyone to think seriously about the ramifications of burning any boats by a permanent move. Spend a few months in country first to see if you can adapt to the enormous cultural differences. Not all can.

[FreebieFan]

I really would not wish to spend the whole year in The Philippines. I love the place to bits and have some great friends here, but the place does start to rub me up the wrong way if I spend too long here. I would advise anyone to think seriously about the ramifications of burning any boats by a permanent move. Spend a few months in country first to see if you can adapt to the enormous cultural differences. Not all can.And the other Golden Rule to apply, is even if you do live in Philippines take regular trips outside the Philippines to see the real normal unmessed up world.

The innefficiencies of the Philippines are not apparent when you travel to HK. The pitch black of the Philippines highways at night are not apparaent when you travel to Singapore. The mad and maddening traffic is no longer apparent when you travel to Bangkok.

Theres a need to regulary escape the Philippines and experience normality even if you do live there!

[GoodEnough]

The expats whom I've met here seem to fall into three generic categories: the missionaries with whom no one hangs out except other missionaries; the guys who've retired here and have nothing much to do all day but chase pussy and drink; and those of us who have jobs here.

I can't say much about the missionaries, because I've never made any effort to get to know any of them. The retired guys-many of them at any rate-seem purposeless and sort of empty, with nothing to engage them except the emptry talk of other expats in a similar situation, the next "conquest" and the next beer. Those of us who work, and have some reason to get up every morning and be somewhere and do something seem to lead relatively "normal" lives, in that we have some structure.

For those who contemplate coming here for a life of endless immersion in young, compliant women, let me assure you that from my observation, it's just not enough if you've got an IQ greater than 85. The country can be maddening to live in, endlessly frustrating, and ultimately vacuous. I would argue that this Philippines is not alone in this respect-though it's worse than many-and that older expats adrift in Thailand, Cambodia and even more developed countries like Malaysia, may experience much the same thing.

GE

[Cunning Stunt]

I would argue that this Philippines is not alone in this respect-though it's worse than many-and that older expats adrift in Thailand, Cambodia and even more developed countries like Malaysia, may experience much the same thing.Have you been to Pattaya recently? God's Waiting Room full of single male senior citizens shambling about with a puzzled expression as if trying to remember quite exactly what they are doing there. They sit about in the dirt cheap food court at the Big C or chat to equally ancient and confused looking superannuated 'girls' on Beach Road. But they look happy enough and I guess that it is much cheaper than Florida and a world away from suffering fuel poverty in some dreary, damp council flat in Warrington.

I think that as pension freezes and increasing inflation hits hard, many more will be heading east to find somewhere pleasant and cheap to spend their sunset years.

[FreebieFan]

Have you been to Pattaya recently? God's Waiting Room full of single male senior citizens shambling about with a puzzled expression as if trying to remember quite exactly what they are doing there. They sit about in the dirt cheap food court at the Big C or chat to equally ancient and confused looking superannuated 'girls' on Beach Road. But they look happy enough and I guess that it is much cheaper than Florida and a world away from suffering fuel poverty in some dreary, damp council flat in Warrington.

I think that as pension freezes and increasing inflation hits hard, many more will be heading east to find somewhere pleasant and cheap to spend their sunset years.I would wholeheartdly agree. The prospect of fun in the sun in ones seventies or eighties are surely much more appealing than the aforementioned "desres" in Warrington or Wherever.

Of course the prospect of drugged nipples, having to compete with the Germans of similar age and refugee status, (do Germans pay bf for a girl 12 hours before they need her, like they do with towels on sunbeds LOL) and the ocassional "enforced suicide" might be offputting to a few.

[GoodEnough]

Have you been to Pattaya recently? God's Waiting Room full of single male senior citizens shambling about with a puzzled expression as if trying to remember quite exactly what they are doing there. They sit about in the dirt cheap food court at the Big C or chat to equally ancient and confused looking superannuated 'girls' on Beach Road. But they look happy enough and I guess that it is much cheaper than Florida and a world away from suffering fuel poverty in some dreary, damp council flat in Warrington.Ah CS. I try not to think about it much as I'm rapidly approaching the age of bewilderment. Better bewildered and adrift in Pattaya I guess than in the cold of the Northeast US or the damp of London. Maybe in a few years I'll have to put a small card around my neck that I can read every once in a while to remind me of what I'm doing here.

GE

[Sky Ryder]

I realized yet again that Wolf was right; you can't go home again, in the sense that you will never again entirely fit in.

I think it's inevitable that the longer you spend outside of your country, the more your world view changes, and it's also true that during your absence the culture itselef keeps changing. I think that the great advantage of an internationally peripetetic life is that you learn to fit in everywhere, but the downside is that you no longer belong anywhere.

I don't know about the experiences of other expats, but I find that when I return to the States, and meet people whom I used to know in high school, or university or graduate school; people who have generally stayed in the same place their entire lives, we have little to talk about, and little in common.

There's a lot that's positive about the life of an expatriate in general, and of an expatriate in a third world country more specifically. However, the failure to truly belong is an ineluctable fact, and I think those contemplating such a life should accept it as a condition of their cultural dislocation.

GEI don't have the length of experience that you have, but I agree wholeheartedly with your premise. I find that when I go home, I am no longer a part of anyone's life and kind of get "in the way". People don't know what to do with me, since I am no longer a part of their everyday routine.

I also find myself being frustrated by their myopic view of the world, and they seem to not grasp that there is a whole other world outside the borders of my home country. I also know that anywhere I go in S. E. Asia, I am instantly viewed as a "foreigner", and that, as you say will never change. I constantly am reminded that," I don't understand, it is a Chinese, Philippines, Thai. Thing". I have accepted this fact and there is some freedom associated with a lower set of expectations from the "locals". I find that the quicker I am willing to accept those things I view as "failings" in the local society, the quicker I can become a part of the culture instead of "fighting" it.

I don't think I will ever be able to return "home" to live, except for work. I am sure I will retire somewhere in S. E. Asia. It is the "where" that fuels me current search. One that I am enjoying a lot. I also agree that after a while the pursuit of "mongering prospects" loses it's all consuming appeal. It become a part of, instead of the reason for spending time somewhere.

Great Insight GE

[Simian]

Those of us who work, and have some reason to get up every morning and be somewhere and do something seem to lead relatively "normal" lives, in that we have some structure.

For those who contemplate coming here for a life of endless immersion in young, compliant women, let me assure you that from my observation, it's just not enough if you've got an IQ greater than 85. The country can be maddening to live in, endlessly frustrating, and ultimately vacuous. I would argue that this Philippines is not alone in this respect-though it's worse than many-and that older expats adrift in Thailand, Cambodia and even more developed countries like Malaysia, may experience much the same thing.

GEThis is one of the most insightful comments for anyone who decides to stay in SE Asia. I could have retired some years ago but chose to continue working exactly for the need for structure and not to get dead before my time. I have seen those who deink themselves into an early grave, mainly because of boredom. The truth about most cities in SE Asia is that there is not much to do during the day except drink or may be some sport. Lets face it, you cannot shag all day. It may take you all day to what you used to do all day! You might even get lonely or bored during the day and there are plenty of places for you to drink until you forgot or do not even care you came here for the girls.

Don't get me wrong. I like the girls. But I always do shorttime or one hour massage because the girls have nothing to say. There is no point in a long term arrangement with the uneducated women. If you really want to stay here or any other SE Asia country, you need to get a smart lady who has some education. If you still want variety, you can still do it by either mongering on the side or having a lady who will join in threesomes. But either way, you need someone who can talk to you and who has the ability to understand you. Otherwise stay single.

Although I think that Thailand, Indonesia and Cambodia are better mongering destinations, Philippines is a better location to find a lady who has a sex drive to equal yours and who can talk to you as an equal for a long term relationship. And best if she is not 18 to 22 as she won't have the maturity at that age.

Otherwise I would suggest you stay single. Part of life here is to keep the vacuous nonsense and frustration to a minimum. You don't want to have to deal with frustration all day only to repeat the experience at home, no matter how good she is in the sack.

[D Cups]

Guys, Siquijor Island off Dumaguete is even cheaper than Negros Island if you're looking to buy property. It's really beautiful and cooler than the rest of the PI. The only thing is they have witches and ghosts. That's why it's so cheap: a lot of Filipinos won't even go there!

[Red Kilt]

Guys, Siquijor Island . has witches and ghosts. That's why it's so cheap: a lot of Filipinos won't even go there!I told you that a few months back D Cups.

Most of my staff in a previous assignment who needed to go there on business would only go for day trips. No way would they stay there overnight.

I did a couple of times but always alone.

Too much drama to consider settling there.

[Finrod]

Have you been to Pattaya recently? God's Waiting Room . . .I like that expression!


I think that as pension freezes and increasing inflation hits hard, many more will be heading east to find somewhere pleasant and cheap to spend their sunset years.If inflation hits hard enough, you can count on many retirees already living east becoming destitute. May see a few more one way tickets on Pattaya Air and a few more nipa huts in the boonies.

I could have retired there and made it work financially, but I realized I have to have something to do aside from chasing tail. Or I'm joining the drinkers and I'm way too young for that.

[Slippery]

If a person buys "beachfront property" does anybody know exactly what they get? In some countries the first few hundred yards from from the high water mark are owned by the government. What does a person buying "waterfront" property in the Philippines get? Please don't respond by telling me a foreigner cannot own property in the Philippines duhhhhhh.

[Tally Wacker]

Guys, Siquijor Island off Dumaguete is even cheaper than Negros Island if you're looking to buy property. It's really beautiful and cooler than the rest of the PI. The only thing is they have witches and ghosts. That's why it's so cheap: a lot of Filipinos won't even go there!D Cups, did you go to Siquijor Island? How much is a beachfront property there? Any info?

Is it better to buy a piece of land and build or to buy something already built? Probably depends on price ha?

Thanks!

[Questor55]

If a person buys "beachfront property" does anybody know exactly what they get? In some countries the first few hundred yards from from the high water mark are owned by the government. What does a person buying "waterfront" property in the Philippines get? Please don't respond by telling me a foreigner cannot own property in the Philippines duhhhhhh.Yes, Slippery, what they exactly get is. 'Screwed'. Your question implies that the rule of law is in force in this country. In reality, big fish eat little fish.

Foreigners, unless they have powerful connections, only "own" anything until some bigger Filipino fish wants it. Land surveys are frequently erroneous in the extreme. The judiciary system is not meant to protect you, it is there to serve 'THEM'. But, Hey, you already knew that, so what's the point of your question?

[Slippery]

Yes, Slippery, what they exactly get is. 'Screwed'. Your question implies that the rule of law is in force in this country. In reality, big fish eat little fish.

Foreigners, unless they have powerful connections, only "own" anything until some bigger Filipino fish wants it. Land surveys are frequently erroneous in the extreme. The judiciary system is not meant to protect you, it is there to serve 'THEM'. But, Hey, you already knew that, so what's the point of your question?The point of my question, again, is how much of the "beachfront property" a person would own if they bought "beachfront property." I never asked how much of that property a foreigner would own. Duhhhhhhh. Sober up and then respond. Did I make my remark sufficiently clear about ownership of "beachfront property?" Every response I have received from two different websites involves foreigners. What about a Filipino?

[Tanglin]

The point of my question, again, is how much of the "beachfront property" a person would own if they bought "beachfront property." I never asked how much of that property a foreigner would own. Duhhhhhhh. Sober up and then respond. Did I make my remark sufficiently clear about ownership of "beachfront property?" Every response I have received from two different websites involves foreigners. What about a Filipino?For someone who has a fixation on sobering up, it's pretty funny that you originally posted this question in the Singapore forum. PWI Slippery?

[Gangles]

The law concerning property ownership adjacent to a waterway, or sea fron, varies from country to country.

In my country, Australia, a "person" can not own property closer than 50 metres from the high water mark.

This also applies to some waterways.

Howeveer, if I recall correctly, in the USA, a "person" can own property to the high water mark.

So, for example, in Hawaii, becahfront hotels own the beach in front of the hotel, and prohibit people from enjoying access to their beach.

I am not sure of the law in the Philippines. Certainly, their titling system is theoretically a Torrens Title system. But I am not certain if it is possible to own land to the high water mark.

From my perspective, the main problem with title over land in the Philippines, is that there are four agencies which can legally issue title.

Hence it is possible for there to be 4 legally issued titles to any parcel of land. This is how the "big fish" eat the "little fish".

They get a second, or third title to a parcel that they want, and then go to a court to claim that theirs is the correct title. Once the court certifies to this effect, the little fish gets ejected from the land.

There has been agitation for years for a bil in congress to stop this, and to allow only one source of title. But the congressmen stopped it from even being tabled. If passed, it would make it so much harder for the big fish to eat the little fish.

And keep in mind that the mentality in the Phils is that foreigners are fair game, and ripping off a foreigner is never pursued or upheld in the courts.

G.


And the other Golden Rule to apply, is even if you do live in Philippines take regular trips outside the Philippines to see the real normal unmessed up world.

The innefficiencies of the Philippines are not apparent when you travel to HK. The pitch black of the Philippines highways at night are not apparaent when you travel to Singapore. The mad and maddening traffic is no longer apparent when you travel to Bangkok.

Theres a need to regulary escape the Philippines and experience normality even if you do live there!

[D Cups]

Yes, I was there for two days, TW. I saw a real nice 3 bedroom home on the beach on the west side of the island for the equivalent of 35K USD. Even cheaper than Dumaguete where I was planning to retire. I'd rather build my own but I'm sure there will be many obstacles and a steep learning curve. I think it's better to on a bluff or a hill, however, with a more panoramic view.

BTW nice photos of the big-boobed girl in another post, TW. I'll post mine as soon as I figure out how to reduce the size. I forgot how to do this.


D Cups, did you go to Siquijor Island? How much is a beachfront property there? Any info?

Is it better to buy a piece of land and build or to buy something already built? Probably depends on price ha?

Thanks!

[Tally Wacker]

Yes, I was there for two days, TW. I saw a real nice 3 bedroom home on the beach on the west side of the island for the equivalent of 35K USD. Even cheaper than Dumaguete where I was planning to retire. I'd rather build my own but I'm sure there will be many obstacles and a steep learning curve. I think it's better to on a bluff or a hill, however, with a more panoramic view.

BTW nice photos of the big-boobed girl in another post, TW. I'll post mine as soon as I figure out how to reduce the size. I forgot how to do this.Wow 35K sounds good. I would like to buy something that I could possible retire to and or spend part of the year at. I was concerned about the place being broken in to and everything stollen when I was not there. I guess you would need to hire a trust worthy person to watch the place when your not there.

D Cups just google photo resize and you can do it online.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

Want your good (and not so good) opinions, experiences, thoughts on living with a Filipina instead of paying hotel bills?

I have several good friend that have offered me their places to stay some I have known long time, some not so long from DIA through chat.

Being a rather paranoid guy I usually am quick to spot scammers and I check everything whenever there is a potential for loss or problems.

Have any of you out there tried this; what was your experience? I think the main problem is their expectations that this means I am going to marry them, but I am clear that is not the case so there is no misunderstanding.

I already know most do not have air cond, so that is a problem; the other problems are maybe my goods disappearing, like my laptop, etc, but the women I am considering do not seem capable of that (I could be sorely mistaken of course).

I also tell them not to expect me to gift to their relatives just because I am there.

I will help her with groceries and maybe small rent money, but I won't be an ATM for all her family.

Your thoughts welcomed. Those that just call me cheap are just jealous.

Those that call me stupid, you might be right, haha.

[Member #4351]

thoughts on living with a Filipina instead of paying hotel bills?Good idea. Please tell us all about it afterwards.

[LexLuther]

Want your good (and not so good) opinions, experiences, thoughts on living with a Filipina instead of paying hotel bills?

I have several good friend that have offered me their places to stay some I have known long time, some not so long from DIA through chat.

Being a rather paranoid guy I usually am quick to spot scammers and I check everything whenever there is a potential for loss or problems.

Have any of you out there tried this; what was your experience? I think the main problem is their expectations that this means I am going to marry them, but I am clear that is not the case so there is no misunderstanding.

I already know most do not have air cond, so that is a problem; the other problems are maybe my goods disappearing, like my laptop, etc, but the women I am considering do not seem capable of that (I could be sorely mistaken of course).

I also tell them not to expect me to gift to their relatives just because I am there.

I will help her with groceries and maybe small rent money, but I won't be an ATM for all her family.

Your thoughts welcomed. Those that just call me cheap are just jealous.

Those that call me stupid, you might be right, haha.In my opinion, most of the people who will offer you their hospitality will not steal from you. They are often very poor but quite honest. However their tradition requires that when you arrive at their home (often even from a short trip) you will present them with a pasalubong. That is a gift and can be as simple as a box of donuts, a lechon manok, a case of soda or beer. If you are a westerner, you are most likely much better off than they are. If you accept their hospitality, you should definitely help out with groceries.

It is also likely that you are going to consume a lot more of everything than they do. This would include food and water. If they don't have running water, someone is going to have to go fetch water for you. This is more likely in rural areas. Thus you will be a burden on the woman or her family. Please don't try to take advantage of these people. You can stay in a one or two star hotel for a very reasonable price and can eat quite cheaply as well.

And many, if not most, Filipinas will definitely have as their goal trying to find a way out of the poverty and out of the country so they can help their families. It is perfectly reasonable given the economy of the country and the typical poverty level.

LexLuther

[Red Kilt]

Good idea. Please tell us all about it afterwards.Agree David. But I hope he has enough money left to report from the internet cafe LOL.

Seriously TCO, it is a good-money-saving idea but I suggest you never agree to do it sight unseen. I mean that for both the DIA women involved and the living quarters too. Maybe you have already met some of the women so that score is settled.

Book at least 1 night in a hotel, and then meet the DIA woman and check out the accomm.

Make your decision after that.

Remember though that she will not let you out of her sight while you are staying with her. She knows that there are many other women waiting to "steal" you away.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

In my opinion, most of the people who will offer you their hospitality will not steal from you. They are often very poor but quite honest. However their tradition requires that when you arrive at their home (often even from a short trip) you will present them with a pasalubong. That is a gift and can be as simple as a box of donuts, a lechon manok, a case of soda or beer. If you are a westerner, you are most likely much better off than they are. If you accept their hospitality, you should definitely help out with groceries.

* Of course and I probably will pay them some rent too, I just don't like being ripped off by hotels. Even a P500 a day pension house works out to 15, 000 a month not including restaurant costs, that's ridiculous imo. You can rent most nice furnished places in Phil for that, especially in the provinces.

It is also likely that you are going to consume a lot more of everything than they do. This would include food and water. If they don't have running water, someone is going to have to go fetch water for you. This is more likely in rural areas. Thus you will be a burden on the woman or her family. Please don't try to take advantage of these people. You can stay in a one or two star hotel for a very reasonable price and can eat quite cheaply as well.

*What did I say that makes you think I would "take advantage". No intention of doing that, simply trying to keep from getting ripped by tourist prices.

And many, if not most, Filipinas will definitely have as their goal trying to find a way out of the poverty and out of the country so they can help their families. It is perfectly reasonable given the economy of the country and the typical poverty level.

LexLuther*This is a problem as I see it. Even if I make my intentions clear the possiblity of them trying to blackmail me or socially pressure me in some way remains. But I agree I probably would feel the same way if I was in their shoes. I am not considering places that have no running water, that's out. So these Filipinas will not be that poor comparatively speaking with many of their Country women.

[GoodEnough]

Unless you're planning on hooking up with a solidly middle class Filipina, staying with the family is probably not a good idea.

[FreebieFan]

Remember though that she will not let you out of her sight while you are staying with her. She knows that there are many other women waiting to "steal" you away.Had a very amusing conversation during my last manila trip whereby one of my young ladies was questioning me about other women.

She knew I was married so I mentioned that I actually do see "another woman" quite regularly.

She blithely and sweetly responded " no, I mean other girls like me, thats what I'm jealous of "

[Frenzy3]

.

Those that call me stupid, you might be right, haha.How many times have you been to PI? If this is your first time then yes you are stupid. Try and live on the street in a slum near your town. That is the only way I can desribe what you are doing. If you have been here then you are still stupid as you are a ATM so stop thinking you get any free rides here.

[Pinoy Photog]

Want your good (and not so good) opinions, experiences, thoughts on living with a Filipina instead of paying hotel bills?

I have several good friend that have offered me their places to stay some I have known long time, some not so long from DIA through chat.

Being a rather paranoid guy I usually am quick to spot scammers and I check everything whenever there is a potential for loss or problems.

Have any of you out there tried this; what was your experience? I think the main problem is their expectations that this means I am going to marry them, but I am clear that is not the case so there is no misunderstanding.

I already know most do not have air cond, so that is a problem; the other problems are maybe my goods disappearing, like my laptop, etc, but the women I am considering do not seem capable of that (I could be sorely mistaken of course).

I also tell them not to expect me to gift to their relatives just because I am there.

I will help her with groceries and maybe small rent money, but I won't be an ATM for all her family.

Your thoughts welcomed. Those that just call me cheap are just jealous.

Those that call me stupid, you might be right, haha.It would be best to rent a small apartment and stay there your self. You are going to find that no matter what you say her family will do all they can to get your money, and they are very good at it. I've been married to a Filipina for 11 years. You will also find that the longer you are there you will be able to meet more upscale girls and that's what you really want. Find a girl with a very small family.

[Sammon]

Want your good (and not so good) opinions, experiences, thoughts on living with a Filipina instead of paying hotel bills?

I have several good friend that have offered me their places to stay some I have known long time, some not so long from DIA through chat.

Being a rather paranoid guy I usually am quick to spot scammers and I check everything whenever there is a potential for loss or problems.

Have any of you out there tried this; what was your experience? I think the main problem is their expectations that this means I am going to marry them, but I am clear that is not the case so there is no misunderstanding.

I already know most do not have air cond, so that is a problem; the other problems are maybe my goods disappearing, like my laptop, etc, but the women I am considering do not seem capable of that (I could be sorely mistaken of course).

I also tell them not to expect me to gift to their relatives just because I am there.

I will help her with groceries and maybe small rent money, but I won't be an ATM for all her family.

Your thoughts welcomed. Those that just call me cheap are just jealous.

Those that call me stupid, you might be right, haha.Many a times I was invited to live with the girl's family in the provinces but I declined. Reasona are obvious. I need air-con, personal space and privacy when enjoying with my girl. However I have visited many provinces. First the whole extended family will hire a van and come to the airport (why? Do not know). The moment me and the girl got in the van they wanted to eat. So we stopped at a restaurent (ofcourse I pay ). Request from family for me to stay in their house is ignored by me. So I check into a hotel. The girl goes to her house and comes back to stay with me. Next day I was " invited " for dinner at their house. The girl asks for money to buy chicken, rice etc (ofcourse do not ask! I pay) While I was at their house they all wanted to drink alcohol (ofcourse I had to pay ). They would not even open a JW bottle I gave them as a present. Many in the extended family came, ate and drank. One uncle wanted me to invest in his farm machinery repair business just because " I am part of the family now " Father wanted to take me fishing next day with friends. I decined citing under the weather (Lie). If I would have gone I am sure I had to pay for food and drinks. Planned to stay 5 days but shortened to 3 days and me and the girl left to nearby city. Peace at last.

My advice is do not get too involved with the family or the girl for that matter. Just have your fun and get out and just reward the girl with money and gifts whatever you consider she is worth.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

many a times i was invited to live with the girl's family in the provinces but i declined. reasona are obvious. i need air-con, personal space and privacy when enjoying with my girl. however i have visited many provinces. first the whole extended family will hire a van and come to the airport (why? do not know). the moment me and the girl got in the van they wanted to eat. so we stopped at a restaurent (ofcourse i pay ). request from family for me to stay in their house is ignored by me. so i check into a hotel. the girl goes to her house and comes back to stay with me. next day i was " invited " for dinner at their house. the girl asks for money to buy chicken, rice etc (ofcourse do not ask! i pay) while i was at their house they all wanted to drink alcohol (ofcourse i had to pay ). they would not even open a jw bottle i gave them as a present. many in the extended family came, ate and drank. one uncle wanted me to invest in his farm machinery repair business just because " i am part of the family now " father wanted to take me fishing next day with friends. i decined citing under the weather (lie). if i would have gone i am sure i had to pay for food and drinks. planned to stay 5 days but shortened to 3 days and me and the girl left to nearby city. peace at last.

my advice is do not get too involved with the family or the girl for that matter. just have your fun and get out and just reward the girl with money and gifts whatever you consider she is worth.thanks for wising me up. i guess i am still a newbee because i knew they would pull somekind of stuff like this, but i did not think it would be that bad as you describe.

amazing, just amazing. i am almost speechless after reading your reply. and i am going to follow your good advice, sammon. can i ask how long and in what way you knew this particular woman? did you have any hint that they would pull this kind of see are a p?

[TurdyCurdyOne]

It would be best to rent a small apartment and stay there your self. You are going to find that no matter what you say her family will do all they can to get your money, and they are very good at it. I've been married to a Filipina for 11 years. You will also find that the longer you are there you will be able to meet more upscale girls and that's what you really want. Find a girl with a very small family.I am finding that is it not easy to get them to offer a place for me temporarily.

When they do it is usually uninhabitable from a westerner's point of view.

No fridge, no running water, near a squatter area, living with 10 relatives and crying babies, etc.

The upscale ladies as I have stated in other posts (not here) almost invariably have.

The same bad attitudes as western women. Too independent, snotty, cheap, unaccomodating. It is very difficult to find an 'upscale' (by that I mean an educated woman with an income) that is not a PITA.

I am starting to look in other countries now because I realize most of the women on DIA want something for nothing. They want me to spend alot of money to come visit them and perhaps marry them but they have nothing tangible to offer in return, other than their usual phone affections. After a LONG time on chat I realize the benefits of the Phil in terms of anything except sex for cash is an ILLUSION when it comes to the Filipinas on DIA at least. Maybe women from other sources are better I don't know.

I think I may take your advice and skip the idea of living with one of my friends and rent my own place, but it is very problematical to do that ahead of arrival so as to avoid hotels and tourist pricing.

[PirateMorgan]

I live in Medellin and want to spend some extended time in Cebu. I teach using Skype with 4mgx1mg service from my home. What is available from an apartment in Cebu (or from anywhere else in the Philippines?) Is it reliable? Is there cable Internet service vs DSL. Any idea what it costs?

(FYI 4mg Internet service +TV+phone line costs $38 per month-far out!)

Thanks a million to anyone who can help me. This board might be the best source of info in the world on this.

[Gangles]

Sometimes I become dismayed at the attitudes and behaviours of so many punters here.

They use DIA to search for available women, because DIA is free. The girls use it because it is free.

So the mongers are looking for poor women, who will sex them immediately in exchange for some money.

But reading these posts, the punters do not want the woman, or her family, to behave like impoverished people. They want the women, and their families, to behave like rich western women, who are financially self sufficient, and whose families are self sufficient, and who live in (US) suburban style houses, not live in squatter areas.

If you want independent pinays, who earn a reasonable honest income, do not ask you for money, whose family live in a regular house, who are not always scrabbling for money, then start at the dating sites that these women use, look carefully for that kind of woman, put in the time and effort, and you will find them.

There are lots of them.

And they are just lovely, loving women.

G.


I am finding that is it not easy to get them to offer a place for me temporarily.

When they do it is usually uninhabitable from a westerner's point of view.

No fridge, no running water, near a squatter area, living with 10 relatives and crying babies, etc.

The upscale ladies as I have stated in other posts (not here) almost invariably have.

The same bad attitudes as western women. Too independent, snotty, cheap, unaccomodating. It is very difficult to find an 'upscale' (by that I mean an educated woman with an income) that is not a PITA.

I am starting to look in other countries now because I realize most of the women on DIA want something for nothing. They want me to spend alot of money to come visit them and perhaps marry them but they have nothing tangible to offer in return, other than their usual phone affections. After a LONG time on chat I realize the benefits of the Phil in terms of anything except sex for cash is an ILLUSION when it comes to the Filipinas on DIA at least. Maybe women from other sources are better I don't know.

I think I may take your advice and skip the idea of living with one of my friends and rent my own place, but it is very problematical to do that ahead of arrival so as to avoid hotels and tourist pricing.

[GoodEnough]

i live in medellin and want to spend some extended time in cebu. i teach using skype with 4mgx1mg service from my home. what is available from an apartment in cebu (or from anywhere else in the philippines?) is it reliable? is there cable internet service vs dsl. any idea what it costs?

(fyi 4mg internet service +tv+phone line costs $38 per month-far out!)

thanks a million to anyone who can help me. this board might be the best source of info in the world on this.i live in davao, and have had dsl via a cable for several years. the service is generally reliable, and i use it frequently for skype and apple's facebook applications with few problems. i can't tell you the actual speed, though i can tell you that it's not great for watching long, streaming videos. the cost is slightly less than php1, 000 per month

[TurdyCurdyOne]

Sometimes I become dismayed at the attitudes and behaviours of so many punters here.

They use DIA to search for available women, because DIA is free. The girls use it because it is free.

So the mongers are looking for poor women, who will sex them immediately in exchange for some money.

But reading these posts, the punters do not want the woman, or her family, to behave like impoverished people. They want the women, and their families, to behave like rich western women, who are financially self sufficient, and whose families are self sufficient, and who live in (US) suburban style houses, not live in squatter areas.

If you want independent pinays, who earn a reasonable honest income, do not ask you for money, whose family live in a regular house, who are not always scrabbling for money, then start at the dating sites that these women use, look carefully for that kind of woman, put in the time and effort, and you will find them.

There are lots of them.

And they are just lovely, loving women.

G.Don't know why your quoting and replying to my post. If you are, you haven't read it very carefully. I am not looking for quick sex for money, which is clearly evident in my post,

But which you ignore in your reply.

Also I have said in other posts I do not blame them for their little schemes and coercive.

Social behavior designed to relieve poriners of their money based on their nationality, skin color and circumstance. But many poor and even not so poor Filipinas take it to extremes as noted in Sammon's.

Post. Just because your poor does not neccesarily mean you have to resort to manipulative.

Abusive behavior towards tourists in your country. But I agree with you, in part, that some mongers expect too much and offer too little.

You give advice to search for sites with more well to do women but you don't offer the names of any sites. I think maybe you don't know. Further I think the sites you pay for probably aren't any better than DIA. Fact is middle or upper class Filipinas don't really crave poriners. Why should they? A good percentage of the Western poriners on the net are fat, old, or have some other undesirable quality that makes them less successful in their own countries. Notice I did not say ALL or MOST but a "good percentage". If you are rich, handsome or famous in the USA you have no trouble getting plenty of free poon without spending alot of time, money and trouble going to bad countries like the P. I.

I stand by my original post. It is very difficult to find a FEMININE, NICE Filipina on DIA and probably on the net in general who has something tangible to offer in return for the higher.

Standard of living, possible 1st world residency / citizenship and other benefits from marrying or partnering with a Westerner. They can cook, clean and offer sex but you can.

Hire maids and others to do that. If you're looking for a Filipina to contribute more than that you are not talking about most all of the women on DIA. Most of the Filipinas in a position to contribute something of real value are not that much different from the average Western woman and they frequently are not shopping for poriners on the net-they don't need a man in their lives and they probably seek out men from their own culture.

[Simian]

[QUOTE=TurdyMost of the Filipinas in a position to contribute something of real value are not that much different from the average Western woman and they frequently are not shopping for poriners on the net-they don't need a man in their lives and they probably seek out men from their own culture.[/QUOTE]

Actually I have found some Filipinas on DIA who are educated, living in a real house / apartment, who have university degrees etc. Of course they are not 18 years old or 22. They also do not respond well to guys who want them to strip off for the web cam. They tend to be over 30 and they know that they do not have a chance with a Filipino guy of their level of society because they are considered "too old". So they look for foreigners, including older ones like me! Even though educated and sometimes with a bit of refinement, they too would like to have a man in their lives. But you need to search them out and to present yourself as a bit refined too. Such women are hard to pick up in markets, malls or such places because this is where they live and they do not want to be seen to be doing that. But it is OK for them to be on a dating site.

To get these you need a strategy. Avoid the obvious hookers and the young ones (unless that is what you want). Instead look for someone with a job and who writes english reasonably well. Look for evidence of education in the profile or elsewhere. Unless you are looking for a wife or if you are already married, it is a good idea to find one who lives in a different part of the country from you as it makes it easier to 'to and fro' as you will. You can also take her away for a holiday break if she is too shy to be seen around her local town with a foreigner.

Don't get me wrong. I like to monger like the rest of you. But I also like to mix it up a bit. Some of the best sex I have ever had was from these more refined ladies on DIA and none of them ever looked for money. Of course they would like to get married to a Mr Right but they were happy to settle for a Mr Right Now.

I realize that this is not for everyone's taste on this board. But it is an option.

[Fast Buck Artist]

Want your good (and not so good) opinions, experiences, thoughts on living with a Filipina instead of paying hotel bills?In my experience, when a girl invites me to visit her place. 9 out of 10 times the "place" is a 6 foot wide carton shack with no running water, aircon or fridge, electric supply is one lightbulb, the awfully smelling toilet is shared by 20 people.

If you want to avoid hotel bills, well. You get what you pay for!

[TurdyCurdyOne]

**More below inline:


Actually I have found some Filipinas on DIA who are educated, living in a real house / apartment, who have university degrees etc. Of course they are not 18 years old or 22. They also do not respond well to guys who want them to strip off for the web cam. They tend to be over 30 and they know that they do not have a chance with a Filipino guy of their level of society because they are considered "too old". So they look for foreigners, including older ones like me! Even though educated and sometimes with a bit of refinement, they too would like to have a man in their lives. But you need to search them out and to present yourself as a bit refined too. Such women are hard to pick up in markets, malls or such places because this is where they live and they do not want to be seen to be doing that. But it is OK for them to be on a dating site.

** I think you're thinking of just getting these higher class babes to bed, something totally
different than what I am trying to accomplish and was posting about.

**There are a few women as you describe, but the problem often is that they are working and do not have time to chat on a regular basis given the time difference from the West Coast USA and Phil. This is exacerbated by the fact that I don't chat earlier than 9am.

**Many of these babes are online in their evenings which is in the middle of the night for me. So if you are looking for someone compatible over time, it is difficult to get to know them on chat.

** Also, As I said I other posts, most of the ones with good jobs and educated are westernized in their attitudes. In the Phil culture wives are not in a submissive role in the main. This plus the fact that they do not NEED a man due to their larger incomes, makes them to much like western women imo,.very unattractive. It may be easy to bed them but to form a relationship in which you are the boss and they aim to please is near impossible with these women, they will always be challenging your authority. You are right of course that age is much more a negative factor in their Country, but if they have sufficient money they really do not need a man, even for sex.

To get these you need a strategy. Avoid the obvious hookers and the young ones (unless that is what you want). Instead look for someone with a job and who writes english reasonably well. Look for evidence of education in the profile or elsewhere. Unless you are looking for a wife or if you are already married, it is a good idea to find one who lives in a different part of the country from you as it makes it easier to 'to and fro' as you will. You can also take her away for a holiday break if she is too shy to be seen around her local town with a foreigner.

*Good advice, I agree with the above. But I am looking for a wife, but not a.bb-aa-ll.
busting one.

Don't get me wrong. I like to monger like the rest of you. But I also like to mix it up a bit. Some of the best sex I have ever had was from these more refined ladies on DIA and none of them ever looked for money. Of course they would like to get married to a Mr Right but they were happy to settle for a Mr Right Now.

*Of course if your reasonably attractive and socially astute, they are as horny as men.
This is particularily true if they are career types. So sex is not the problem. But if you want.
a relationship in which you're the boss and she also contributes, that's hard to find and.
maintain, imo.

I realize that this is not for everyone's taste on this board. But it is an option.

**Not all of us want a different babe in our bed each morning and night, and for those of us that want something more permanent and stable with a woman who can contribute but still yields control to the man and is feminine, that is a harder nut to crack, so to speak.

[WestCoast1]

**Not all of us want a different babe in our bed each morning and night, and for those of us that want something more permanent and stable with a woman who can contribute but still yields control to the man and is feminine, that is a harder nut to crack, so to speak.That would be the same with women in any country, ya?

[Stroker Ace88]

I am finding that is it not easy to get them to offer a place for me temporarily.

When they do it is usually uninhabitable from a westerner's point of view.

No fridge, no running water, near a squatter area, living with 10 relatives and crying babies, etc.

The upscale ladies as I have stated in other posts (not here) almost invariably have.

The same bad attitudes as western women. Too independent, snotty, cheap, unaccomodating. It is very difficult to find an 'upscale' (by that I mean an educated woman with an income) that is not a PITA.

I am starting to look in other countries now because I realize most of the women on DIA want something for nothing. They want me to spend alot of money to come visit them and perhaps marry them but they have nothing tangible to offer in return, other than their usual phone affections. After a LONG time on chat I realize the benefits of the Phil in terms of anything except sex for cash is an ILLUSION when it comes to the Filipinas on DIA at least. Maybe women from other sources are better I don't know.

I think I may take your advice and skip the idea of living with one of my friends and rent my own place, but it is very problematical to do that ahead of arrival so as to avoid hotels and tourist pricing.TC1,

Honestly I think your posts are such a waste of space. You are the classic internet troll that sits in his small basement appartment and dreams one day to retire in a place like the Philippines but you can't afford the airfare. So you sit with your computer and you chat endlessly with many filipinas, sending a few dollars from your social security payout in exchange for a few webcam shows. You are the guy that makes endless promises but you will never set foot in the Philippines.

I meet girls everyday in the Philippines that when asked if they have ever had a foreigner BF before reply, 'yes online before but we broke up 'because he never come see me so I search again'.

I checked your post history and you have asked the same kind of question numerous times over the last few years. Now you want to stay with a filipina woman free in her home and play "king of the castle" and you are confused when other senior members call your plan stupid? Those same members have spent many years travelling to and living in the Philippines.

Your number one problem is you apply western reasoning and logic to a place that is for all intents and purposes, not logical. You are searching for an educated older woman who is willing to open her home up to a stranger and have you live there for almost free with all the jerjer you want, and you complain when you can't find it on a free dating website and the women want something in return? You look down on pay dating website but you have never tried them.

You post crap like,"without spending alot of time, money and trouble going to bad countries like the P. I.", how do you know what it's like there, and if it's so bad why bother chatting with filipinas?

Get your self described "old fart" ass on a plane and experience the Philippines for yourself. But I doubt I will be rubbing elbows with you at an airport lounge anytime soon because if you are so concerned about the price of a PI visa extention you can't afford the flight so keep on dreaming.

[Jack Burton]

Good idea. Please tell us all about it afterwards.Laughed my a* off at that one. *OF COURSE* staying with a poor Filipina's large and extended family is going to be cheaper than a hotel. Now, for the rest of you mongers out there:

Go to Angeles. Stay at least one night in a reasonably-priced hotel. Get some sleep, recover from time-zone shock if needed. Get a local throw-away cell phone. Bring with you the list of phone numbers you have from DIA or elsewhere. Start calling. Let them know you are in the Philippine, but not at which hotel. Let them know you have several numbers, as this helps. Somewhat. With waiting two hours for a show, longer for a no-show.

Find at least one foreigner willing to give newbie advice (the $19. 95 for a membership here will make that easier). Be prepared to buy him a drink or two. Again, the investment is likely to pay off in less than 48 hours, often less than 20 minutes. Have condoms.

Meanwhile, check local apartments / condos for rent. You may have to pay a month in advance. You will have to pay foreigner prices. Perhaps by your second or third trip, you will find a Filipina you can trust with more than cab money to negotiate a rental. Don't count on it. Figure what a vacation for one would cost, after airfare. Multiply it by three. Then add an extra $50 / day to that.

Why Angeles? More foreign banks and ATMs (the stationary kind, not us). Also, quite a bit of talent here for the ATMs (us, not the stationary ones).

[TurdyCurdyOne]

TC1,

Honestly I think your posts are such a waste of space. You are the classic internet troll that sits in his small basement appartment and dreams one day to retire in a place like the Philippines but you can't afford the airfare. So you sit with your computer and you chat endlessly with many filipinas, sending a few dollars from your social security payout in exchange for a few webcam shows. You are the guy that makes endless promises but you will never set foot in the Philippines.

*It would take for some ignoramus like you to spend alot of time making false flame assertions with a clear ignorance of the facts, to my posts. If you actually read the entire thread you'd see many are posting in agreement with the points I have made. But your right about one thing, I won't waste my money on going to a place that has NOTHING to offer other than cheap (and often poor) sex for cash.

I meet girls everyday in the Philippines that when asked if they have ever had a foreigner BF before reply, 'yes online before but we broke up 'because he never come see me so I search again'.

*Yeah you have to be dumb like you to bblloww thousands of dollars visiting a Filipina who will just try to get as much cash for her and her extended family as possible without any benefit to you whatsoever except MAYBE sex (and even that is dubious). They are laughing at you Stoker, so I hope you have a good sense of humor.

I checked your post history and you have asked the same kind of question numerous times over the last few years. Now you want to stay with a filipina woman free in her home and play "king of the castle" and you are confused when other senior members call your plan stupid? Those same members have spent many years travelling to and living in the Philippines.

*What you call stupid, just shows how stoopid you are. You go there waste alot of money on hotels and restaurants falsely feeding your tiny ego and imagining they all want you for our sexual prowess and that your getting something of value for your payments? Then when your money is all gone, you hide your tail between your legs and try to get back to the USA to make more money for your next trip? Either that or you are trapped into a marriage with some Filpina and finally realized how you are simply considered a cash cow for their next want or project. Then it also finally dawns on you that you have no legal rights in this backward Country, that you cannot legally do business or own property unless it owned by your Filipina friend and when the relationship goes South and you lose all your investment, you go online to tell a 'could care less world' your pathetic sad sack story of woe.

Your number one problem is you apply western reasoning and logic to a place that is for all intents and purposes, not logical. You are searching for an educated older woman who is willing to open her home up to a stranger and have you live there for almost free with all the jerjer you want, and you complain when you can't find it on a free dating website and the women want something in return? You look down on pay dating website but you have never tried them.

*Paid dating sites are for ignoramuses. Very stupid to pay someone to offer what you, as a member of a highly sought after nationality, can get for free. That's like asking a pretty Hhookkerr to pay YOU to get laid. If you had reading comprehension beyond a 3rd grader and actually read my posts you'd see I am not looking for free sex (as you probably are). And that these women are not strangers but long time friends. I guess you are the one who tries to date strangers because if they actually knew you they'd have nothing to do with you.

You post crap like,"without spending alot of time, money and trouble going to bad countries like the P. I.", how do you know what it's like there, and if it's so bad why bother chatting with filipinas?

*Filipinas are VERY seductive. They have learned that their only best chance, if they are poor like most are, is to charm a foreigner to spend several thousand dollars to come marry them, give them and their family alot of money, possibly residency or citizenship. They are VERY good, no doubt at being charming, feminine, humble, demure, all the qualities that make most men salivate. They have learned how to do this by living in very hostile (in terms of quality of life) Country with men that they themselves have no use for, telling us Filipino men are mostly irresponsible drunks (who frequently beat their wives / g/FS and abandon their pregnant gfs) A Country where they have to find employment abroad in order to feed their families and most cannot even afford the fees to do that. But other than charm and sex, what can they offer someone who is not just a wwhhorreemonger? Little or nothing. Try asking them for something of value and that false veil they wear expressed as "me lube you long time" will fall and you will see the REALITY of how you as foreigner are regarded.

Get your self described "old fart" ass on a plane and experience the Philippines for yourself. But I doubt I will be rubbing elbows with you at an airport lounge anytime soon because if you are so concerned about the price of a PI visa extention you can't afford the flight so keep on dreaming.Yeah I am an 'old fart' but I still look young, everything works and guess what, I have lived alot longer than you and have been there done that.

Few other countries charge $80 USD every two months to stay in the country. But for dummies like you who are willing to pay it, the corrupt Gov in the Phil just chalks this up to another good scam to relieve "poriners" of their money. If you want so throw your money down the toilet, go ahead I won't stop you. Once you get there and stay there it will be cheaper than feeding your hhookkerr habit stateside.

[Tanglin]

Yeah I am an 'old fart' but I still look young, everything works and guess what, I have lived alot longer than you and have been there done that.

Few other countries charge $80 USD every two months to stay in the country. But for dummies like you who are willing to pay it, the corrupt Gov in the Phil just chalks this up to another good scam to relieve "poriners" of their money. If you want so throw your money down the toilet, go ahead I won't stop you. Once you get there and stay there it will be cheaper than feeding your hhookkerr habit stateside.I've been reading this thread for a while, and noticed that for someone who has never set foot in the Philippines, nor has ever been in a relationship with a Filipina, you sure have some strong opinions about things you know absolutely nothing about.

Stroker pretty much put you in your place, so I have little to add to his comments. All I can say is that it would be fun to see you travel to the PI, stay with the family of a DIA hook-up, and try to last a week or so without financially taking care of her and her family.

[Slippery]

I've been reading this thread for a while, and noticed that for someone who has never set foot in the Philippines, nor has ever been in a relationship with a Filipina, you sure have some strong opinions about things you know absolutely nothing about.

Stroker pretty much put you in your place, so I have little to add to his comments. All I can say is that it would be fun to see you travel to the PI, stay with the family of a DIA hook-up, and try to last a week or so without financially taking care of her and her family.If he has never been to the Philippines then he cannot realize the pervasive influence that a family can have over him once they get him into their talons. Live and learn and live and learn fast.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

I've been reading this thread for a while, and noticed that for someone who has never set foot in the Philippines, nor has ever been in a relationship with a Filipina, you sure have some strong opinions about things you know absolutely nothing about.

Stroker pretty much put you in your place, so I have little to add to his comments. All I can say is that it would be fun to see you travel to the PI, stay with the family of a DIA hook-up, and try to last a week or so without financially taking care of her and her family.They claim to have been to the P. I. But no very little about the Filipinas on DIA.

I don't make the same mistakes you and Stoker make, I choose my women carefully and will not be disappointed in the end, whilst you and Stoker will still be here complaining how you got used by some Filipina and her family.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

I've been reading this thread for a while, and noticed that for someone who has never set foot in the Philippines, nor has ever been in a relationship with a Filipina, you sure have some strong opinions about things you know absolutely nothing about.

Stroker pretty much put you in your place, so I have little to add to his comments. All I can say is that it would be fun to see you travel to the PI, stay with the family of a DIA hook-up, and try to last a week or so without financially taking care of her and her family.How they claim to have been to the P. I. Yet they know so little about Filipinas on DIA, about the Phil. Culture and how to deal with scammers and leeches.

I don't make the same mistakes they have made, I choose my women very carefully and I won't be taken for a ride like they have experienced. Perhaps they need to choose a better class of woman and not worry so much about getting off and more about what they are actually getting for their money. Anyone can [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) money away hiring hhookkerrs. That's thinking with your little head. I prefer to use my brain.

[Tanglin]

They claim to have been to the P. I. But no very little about the Filipinas on DIA.

I don't make the same mistakes you and Stoker make, I choose my women carefully and will not be disappointed in the end, whilst you and Stoker will still be here complaining how you got used by some Filipina and her family.I haven't made any mistakes (well, at least not with regards to the topic of this thread). I'm happily involved with a wonderful filippina I met here in Singapore, who is quite well employed and who was laughing at the BS you posted upthread.

In our last trip back to Mactan Island for a fiesta and to visit my SO's family, we ate well, had a great time, and WE (that would be both she and I) helped out various family members that needed some help. It's just a natural part of having a pinoy family. Those who have share with those who don't. When she was in college her older brothers and sisters would help her out with money for food and clothing. Now that she's employed and doing well, she's giving back to the community that helped her out. That's not "being used." Nor is it "being used" when she and I send money to her sister to order a lechon and buy food and beer for the fiesta because we're in a position financially to do a little something nice for the family.

I don't know too much about filippinas you meet on DIA, having not spent much time on that site. But having been involved with my current SO for quite a while, I think I do know at least a bit about pinoy culture and lifestyles. On another forum Chocha Monger once said,"Once you find a good one you'll see that the way to a financially secure Filipina's heart is through her pussy while the way to a poor Filipina's heart runs through your wallet," and I can personally vouch for the wisdom of this comment. I'm lucky enough to have a beautiful, sexy, financially secure partner, and the only "rides" I've ever been taken for have more to do with cowgirls and doggies than ATMs.

But hey TC1, you've obviously chosen much more wisely than I, right? You obviously have it all figured out, and when you get around to actually visiting the Philippines and you find that special woman who will turn her back on her family just so she can experience the sheer thrill of sleeping with you, you'll show us. Right?

[TurdyCurdyOne]

I haven't made any mistakes (well, at least not with regards to the topic of this thread). I'm happily involved with a wonderful filippina I met here in Singapore, who is quite well employed and who was laughing at the BS you posted upthread.

In our last trip back to Mactan Island for a fiesta and to visit my SO's family,

*<snip

I don't know too much about filippinas you meet on DIA, having not spent much time on that site. But having been involved with my current SO for quite a while, I think I do know at least a bit about pinoy culture and lifestyles.

*<snip

* Well I suppose if you're going to pretend to have a family in the P. I. And make up stories about you wife, first thing you should probably learn is how to SPELL "FILIPINA".

*You're right you know nothing about the Filipinas on DIA. And they don't live in Singapore.

But hey TC, you've obviously chosen much more wisely than I, right? You obviously have it all figured out, and when you get around to actually visiting the Philippines and you find that special woman who will turn her back on her family just so she can experience the sheer thrill of sleeping with you, you'll show us. Right?*Hey Tanglin, next time you wonder what it's like to fall to your death from a 10 story building, why don't you do it, since you cannot possibly know what it's like unless you've actually fallen off a 10 story building, right? And when you pretend (something Phil. Culture is good at teaching) you know so much about Pinoy culture, why don't you at least learn how to spell "Filipina"? Have fun paying for your wife and all her relatives, it's an expensive price to pay for plowing the same field night after night.

[Tanglin]

*Hey Tanglin, next time you wonder what it's like to fall to your death from a 10 story building, why don't you do it, since you cannot possibly know what it's like unless you've actually fallen off a 10 story building, right? And when you pretend (something Phil. Culture is good at teaching) you know so much about Pinoy culture, why don't you at least learn how to spell "Filipina"? Have fun paying for your wife and all her relatives, it's an expensive price to pay for plowing the same field night after night.Either spelling is technically correct.

When you travel to the Philippines and visit family, helping out a bit financially is part and parcel of the experience (unless, perhaps, the family name is Marcos, Arroyo, or Aquino). Personally, as long as you know how to keep it in check, it's not a big deal to me.

I will say this. While you're at home right now, sitting in front of your web cam in a darkened room, chatting on DIA and jerking off, I'm sitting at work with a smile on my face thinking about last night and this morning. For you, chatting with girls from the Philippines is as close as you'll ever get to understanding what life is like beyond Tucson. For me, great sex with a wonderful woman is an almost daily experience, along with being immersed in a melting pot of cultures beyond my own.

I know which life I'd rather be living.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

Either spelling is technically correct.

* This will be my last reply as this thread has become a flame war that was not started by me.

* Hey Tanglin, just because you invent your own spelling of "Filipina" does not mean it is the accepted spelling. Google it, if you know how."Filipina is not spelled with two "p"s. Either your keyboard is stuck or you have Parkinsons disease.

When you travel to the Philippines and visit family, helping out a bit financially is part and parcel of the experience (unless, perhaps, the family name is Marcos, Arroyo, or Aquino). Personally, as long as you know how to keep it in check, it's not a big deal to me.

*Well for a guy who posts that he spends $200 to get laid and has spent most of his time in a city state (Singapore) where the 'women like their men to be submissive', and the 'men carry purses', I am guessing you would know?

*You've stated in your other posts and in this thread that you run things by your "FILIPPPPINA" g / f in order to make judgements about Phil. Culture. This goes along with the submissive role you seem to have and your own doubts about what is true for the Philippines. So we know that you've been amply 'ppussiffiedd" by now.

I will say this. While you're at home right now, sitting in front of your web cam in a darkened room, chatting on DIA and jerking off, I'm sitting at work with a smile on my face thinking about last night and this morning. For you, chatting with girls from the Philippines is as close as you'll ever get to understanding what life is like beyond Tucson. For me, great sex with a wonderful woman is an almost daily experience, along with being immersed in a melting pot of cultures beyond my own.

*Wait till your "FILIPPpppINA" wife catches on to your extracurricular activities (does she allow you out of the house for that even?) , then watch how the bite on your wallet from her and her extended family (now your dependents) rises exponentally. And your *claim* that you've had a vasectomy won't help you if she gets pregnant, regardless of the source. You have reminded me of the wisdom of others

On this board that it is best to keep your freedom and not be oppressed by the crazy / racist.

Ideas Filipinos have about family in relation to Poriners / walking ATMs.

I know which life I'd rather be living.Enjoy the polluted air in Cebu (second only to Manila) ; your Western life span will now be shortened to adjust for that. I will be living in a smaller city without the bad air, scammers, and high prices of Cebu in my own place without the watchful eyes of a wife or family manipulating my behavior.

[Tanglin]

Originally Posted by Tanglin [View Original Post]

Either spelling is technically correct.

* This will be my last reply as this thread has become a flame war that was not started by me.Probably a good idea. Little wannabe bullies often pick fights they can't win, then run away as soon as they start to get their asses kicked.


* Hey Tanglin, just because you invent your own spelling of "Filipina" does not mean it is the accepted spelling. Google it, if you know how."Filipina is not spelled with two "p"s. Either your keyboard is stuck or you have Parkinsons disease.

When you travel to the Philippines and visit family, helping out a bit financially is part and parcel of the experience (unless, perhaps, the family name is Marcos, Arroyo, or Aquino). Personally, as long as you know how to keep it in check, it's not a big deal to me.

*Well for a guy who posts that he spends $200 to get laid and has spent most of his time in a city state (Singapore) where the 'women like their men to be submissive', and the 'men carry purses', I am guessing you would know?

*You've stated in your other posts and in this thread that you run things by your "FILIPPPPINA" g / f in order to make judgements about Phil. Culture. This goes along with the submissive role you seem to have and your own doubts about what is true for the Philippines. So we know that you've been amply 'ppussiffiedd" by now.Hardly. My SO and I share a lot of our lives with each other, because that's what partners do. For example, she likes to watch "Pilipinas got talent" and I like to post on various Internet forums. Sometimes I watch the show with her when there's someone on she'd like me to see. Sometimes she reads over a thread I'm posting in when a clueless moron tries tell people all about Philippine culture when he's never been to the Philippines and his only knowledge of the culture comes from DIA chats. Good harmless fun for both of us.


I will say this. While you're at home right now, sitting in front of your web cam in a darkened room, chatting on DIA and jerking off, I'm sitting at work with a smile on my face thinking about last night and this morning. For you, chatting with girls from the Philippines is as close as you'll ever get to understanding what life is like beyond Tucson. For me, great sex with a wonderful woman is an almost daily experience, along with being immersed in a melting pot of cultures beyond my own.

*Wait till your "FILIPPpppINA" wife catches on to your extracurricular activities (does she allow you out of the house for that even?) , then watch how the bite on your wallet from her and her extended family (now your dependents) rises exponentally. And your *claim* that you've had a vasectomy won't help you if she gets pregnant, regardless of the source. You have reminded me of the wisdom of othersDude, you took the time to read through every one of my posts? I don't know whether to be impressed or concerned. I do know that if nothing else, you really need to get a life.

My SO (as an aside, we're not married yet) and I have no intention of having children, though believe me that if it were possible, she'd have been pregnant a long, long, long time ago (very big smile). I get out of the house all the time, although I have to say that my mongering activities are all but non-existant these days. Something about partners that fully satisfy each other, don't you know (actually, you don't. And I suspect you never will). I do hang out in OT from time to time, but I have much more fun chatting up the waitresses and bartenders than I do fending off the working girls. From my SO's perspective, mongering is more of a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of thing, and she's MUCH more concerned about past girlfriends or my ex-wife coming back into my life (not gonna happen, but you know how jealous Filippinas can be. Oh, wait. No you don't. You've never actually had a Filippina partner).

BTW, you misspelled "exponentially."


On this board that it is best to keep your freedom and not be oppressed by the crazy / racist.

Ideas Filipinos have about family in relation to Poriners / walking ATMs."This board" is just a place where mongers and ex-mongers hang out and talk about their experiences. Like all boards, it's a mix of old pros, newbies, and wannabes. And like all Internet forums, it's just talk. Some talk is useful or helpful, and some is utter bulls*t. Words are judged by the amount of experience and knowledge they convey, and frankly your words are all but worthless.

I also find it interesting that you continually denigrate the Pilipino accent by using the term "poriners." For someone who aspires to live in the Philippines (albiet on his own, completely impossible terms) , one would think that you'd have a little more respect for the language.


I know which life I'd rather be living.

Enjoy the polluted air in Cebu (second only to Manila) How would you know? You've never been to either.

And while you've obviously read all of my posts, you also obviously missed a few details. Lapu-Lapu (on Mactan Island) isn't Cebu city. And of course, we live in Singapore, not the PI.


; your Western life span will now be shortened to adjust for that. I will be living in a smaller city without the bad air, scammers, and high prices of Cebu in my own place without the watchful eyes of a wife or family manipulating my behavior.In your case, I think it would be more accurate to say you're too scared and too cheap to leave Tucson, and the only woman who could stand to live with you on your terms comes in vibrating and non-vibrating models (and you'd spring for the non-vibrating one because it's cheaper).

A pretty sad life, to be honest. Not one I'd like to look back upon.

[Streetlooker]

1st if you choose to live with a nice filipina (they are all nice to me) you will be a ATM source for her and all her family period. If you do not accept this you will be replaced by another guy who has more willingness to spend more money then you. 2nd It will cost you a lot less to stay at a hotel for 1000+ Pesos a day (western standards for water and Aircon). Then it will to stay in a nupa hut with no aircon and bugs and misery all day feeding a family of many. I have saved a few pesos in my time staying in non aircon bed spacers with a few bar girls and while its ok for a few days 3-4 tops it gets uncomfortable pretty fast. I don; t think guys are thinking of how valuable your own space is and you must pay for that. I always take a day from my vacations where I lock myself in my hotel room alone and do nothing but get room service and watch movies go to the hotel pool and get room service massages. Its called self pampering without responsibility of nobody else's happiness but your own.

[Spanish Main]

[QUOTE=Few other countries charge $80 USD every two months to stay in the country. But for dummies like you who are willing to pay it, the corrupt Gov in the Phil just chalks this up to another good scam to relieve "poriners" of their money. If you want so throw your money down the toilet, go ahead I won't stop you.[/QUOTE]


This silly argument has nothing to do with me but 80USD every two months to stay somewhere nice, with sunshine and sexy women, is not much more than a dollar a day. You have to be pretty mean to begrudge that, don't you think?

Moaning about having corrupt government is a bit much for an American, so I would be careful if I were you; google this: "List of federal political scandals in the United States" and "On the corruption scorecard, Illinois has seen more than 1000 public officials and businessmen convicted of political corruption since 1971."

People in glass houses...

[TurdyCurdyOne]

1st if you choose to live with a nice filipina (they are all nice to me) you will be a ATM source for her and all her family period. If you do not accept this you will be replaced by another guy who has more willingness to spend more money then you. 2nd It will cost you a lot less to stay at a hotel for 1000+ Pesos a day (western standards for water and Aircon). Then it will to stay in a nupa hut with no aircon and bugs and misery all day feeding a family of many. I have saved a few pesos in my time staying in non aircon bed spacers with a few bar girls and while its ok for a few days 3-4 tops it gets uncomfortable pretty fast. I don; t think guys are thinking of how valuable your own space is and you must pay for that. I always take a day from my vacations where I lock myself in my hotel room alone and do nothing but get room service and watch movies go to the hotel pool and get room service massages. Its called self pampering without responsibility of nobody else's happiness but your own.I consider this a reply to your good civil point. As I said in my last post I ended my replies to the idiot I was talking too earlier out of respect for the TOS of this board which frowns on posts just for flaming.

I have already had several offers but most of them are in cities not on my list (I have researched locations extensively). I tell them immediately that if they ask for help for their family the answer will be no. I cannot offer more specifics than that because there are certain people on this board who may even be Filipino and / or have financial interests in the Phil, who work to try to make the Phil sound like a paradise that it is not.

You have a good point, not debating that. But this is temporary housing only for me, in order to allow me time to search for my own good rental. Despite what I see as a very backward County with hostile laws and gov. Towards foreigners, I will try to live there.

The way I see it, is that if I am going to travel all that ways and spend the ripoff airline prices to get there in order to consider some Filipina for USA residency status and support her, least she can do is offer me a temporary accomodation. These DIA babes are all so

Sweet and nice but try asking THEM for something of substance and you will see how little most of them have to offer. It's not their fault necessarily since they ARE very poor but still they are expecting something for nothing, imo. These guys that have posted that DIA and to a large extent the Phil, is a place for mongering and not much else are correct. The entire Country is designed to pick the Foreigner / tourist up, turn him upside down, shake him till all his money falls out and then put him on the next plane home. Sorry, not going there for that.

I want a place waiting for me when I get there and have specific requirements which include some amount of privacy and security. I will not follow the tourist route of paying 30, 000 a month for a hotel room-as in your example of 1000 a night PLUS all the added restaurant costs and dangers-restaurants are often not safe to eat in, even the expensive ones. I simply prefer to save my money for more important things such as business investment and allowance for the lady of my choice. I figure it will take me several weeks to a month to find a rental that is not a scam, a tourist rip, habitable with a good landlord.

[GoodEnough]

Why you want to move here-given your extreme negativism about the country-is strictly your business and your choice, but I think you're going about it incorrectly. For one thing, it's doubtful that any solidly middle class woman, which is about the only type likely able to afford to type of accommodation you're seeking, is going to offer a stranger refuge from the madding crowd. Why should she? There's no upside for her at all. Second, your overwhelmingly negative set of expectations is likely to undermine your chances of having a decent time here. The fact is, as I've tried to gently point out to others before, this can be an excellent place to live. There's very good housing available, the prices of most commodities are reasonable, and, despite the characterization of Filipinos as "scam artists" and worse, the majority of the people I've met over the past eight years are warm, gracious, honest and, believe it or not, hard working. Granted, I don't hang out with street folks, and most of the Filipinos (and Filipinas) I know are college educated, middle class, and employed gainfully. But then, everyone else also has the option to meet this sort of person here, though apparently some don't take advantage of the opportunity.

I've met lots of perpetually angry foreigners here who disdain every attribute of the country. Their (incorrect) views are as skewed and misguided as others who see it as paradise. In fact, what's called for is a much more nuanced, better balanced view. Many of the viewpoints I read herein take no apparent cognizance of enormous regional differences either, though they are profound. It appears that many posters have formed their views from one, or perhaps from an accretion of experiences in Manila or Angeles City or Cebu, which encompass two islands of a nation comprised of more than 7, 000 islands. Why would anyone want to live as an expatriate in a country he despises?

I have no desire to get into any sort of flame war. People have the right to feel and to act as they please, so long as they hurt no one else in the process. However, it seems anomalous, or at least irrational to me to spend the time and money it takes to get here when one is so preternaturally ill-disposed toward finding anything good about the country. Speaking entirely for myself, I would hate to wake up every morning in the throes of that sort of anger.

GE

[Frenzy3]

I hang out with the uneducated Pino who are called standby that means they have no job. I deal with gang members and drug lords as they are called here. I see kids who snatch stuff pick pockets and I feel safer here than back in aust.

I hang out in some of the worst slums in Cebu still I would not say a bad word as they are doing what they can to survive. I helped people who shacks have been burnt or knocked down. I am no saint I am shallow I get what I want and the people arround me are happy. I like going to places where no foreign guy will go where the Pino will not talk to me as I only know English.

I use the system to work for me. I do what I want when I want. I make rules as I go and the people around me respect that. None of this I could do in aust. I was a street kid at 14 I know the gangs and crims there and they are worst than here. Most of the scams here are from people doing stupid things away from home getting greedy wanting more, then finding out they have gone to far. They missed the signs saying get out now you are going to far. I see guys visiting here doing that you try to tell them and help them but like in this forum they know it all. I seen guys flirt with danger that makes my slum visits look like visiting the museum. I do not know it all but I learn every time and I spend alot of time finding girls here in Cebu.

[Sammon]

Enjoy the polluted air in Cebu (second only to Manila) ; your Western life span will now be shortened to adjust for that. I will be living in a smaller city without the bad air, scammers, and high prices of Cebu in my own place without the watchful eyes of a wife or family manipulating my behavior.Cebu city maybe polluted but if you do not mind living close to the mountains there is clean air. Distance to the city will be about 30- 40 KM. Jeepneys are there. If you are living there with a GF there will not be any need to go to the city every day. Rent will be cheaper also. Ofcourse reasonable care should be taken care of for personal safety. I would advice to live close to Major city rather than remote provinces. Foreigners living in provinces become a target for extortions, donations and robberies.

As to the girls being manipulated by family will happen even if they live far away. Do not be surprised to see her family members drop in unannounced and spending some nights with you. Even if your girl agreed before these things will not happen she is powerless to stop it. Poor families always look to use their golden possession (daughter with golden pussy) to exploit foregners to make their life little easier. More so if you marry and have children. Although I would say in Phi it does not cost lots of money dollarwise to keep somebody happy.

When you live in Phi I am sure you will need some support from her family in case of problems with health, service and other issues. So you cannot exclude her family completely.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

Cebu city maybe polluted but if you do not mind living close to the mountains there is clean air. Distance to the city will be about 30- 40 KM. Jeepneys are there. If you are living there with a GF there will not be any need to go to the city every day. Rent will be cheaper also. Ofcourse reasonable care should be taken care of for personal safety. I would advice to live close to Major city rather than remote provinces. Foreigners living in provinces become a target for extortions, donations and robberies.

As to the girls being manipulated by family will happen even if they live far away. Do not be surprised to see her family members drop in unannounced and spending some nights with you. Even if your girl agreed before these things will not happen she is powerless to stop it. Poor families always look to use their golden possession (daughter with golden pussy) to exploit foregners to make their life little easier. More so if you marry and have children. Although I would say in Phi it does not cost lots of money dollarwise to keep somebody happy.

When you live in Phi I am sure you will need some support from her family in case of problems with health, service and other issues. So you cannot exclude her family completely.My friend in Cebu found me a pretty good place near the beach.

Unfortunately it was close to all her family and I had visions of my place becoming the community clubhouse, so I will decline that offer.

Yeah you're right no intention of living in Cebu City if I choose Cebu, but someplace within an hour of the City. Cebu is good for medical if you need that. If I wind up in a rural area, I might consider having my partner purchase a good shotgun. I have read too many stories of armed holdups of Foreigners. Of course this would only be used in life-threatening emergency. I think the best defense against this is to look poor, act poor and keep a low profile.

Just for the reasons you mention, I may try to 'import' my friends to visit me in another city, to avoid having all their relatives come calling unannounced, but I haven't quite figured out the best way to get a ticket in their hands that they are likely to use (instead of trading for cash) while I am living in another city, I guess this could be done online. And you are quite correct that it pays to keep in mind that you may need their family's help sometime in the future. This is the way things work in the P. I. It is a land of reciprocal favors. But I am not so sure those favors apply to most foreigners, I suppose it depends on the family member in question.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

I hang out with the uneducated Pino who are called standby that means they have no job. I deal with gang members and drug lords as they are called here. I see kids who snatch stuff pick pockets and I feel safer here than back in aust.

I hang out in some of the worst slums in Cebu still I would not say a bad word as they are doing what they can to survive. I helped people who shacks have been burnt or knocked down. I am no saint I am shallow I get what I want and the people arround me are happy. I like going to places where no foreign guy will go where the Pino will not talk to me as I only know English.

<snip

Most of the scams here are from people doing stupid things away from home getting greedy wanting more, then finding out they have gone to far. They missed the signs saying get out now you are going to far. I see guys visiting here doing that you try to tell them and help them but like in this forum they know it all. I seen guys flirt with danger that makes my slum visits look like visiting the museum. I do not know it all but I learn every time and I spend alot of time finding girls here in Cebu.I grew up in a large inner city neighborhood filled with blacks. I have been in the worst slums in the USA.

I have been all over Mexico and in most of the criminally run wwhhoorreehouses. I have been in fistfights in Mexico with Mexicans (back in my drinking days) I have had scams run by me there that most guys get taken on.

I don't drink. I am always stone sober. I am coming the the P. I. In peace. I have no intention of living dangerously and I always quit when I'm ahead-getting greedy can get you killed.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

Why you want to move here-given your extreme negativism about the country-is strictly your business and your choice, but I think you're going about it incorrectly. For one thing, it's doubtful that any solidly middle class woman, which is about the only type likely able to afford to type of accommodation you're seeking, is going to offer a stranger refuge from the madding crowd. Why should she? There's no upside for her at all. Second, your overwhelmingly negative set of expectations is likely to undermine your chances of having a decent time here. The fact is, as I've tried to gently point out to others before, this can be an excellent place to live. There's very good housing available, the prices of most commodities are reasonable, and, despite the characterization of Filipinos as "scam artists" and worse, the majority of the people I've met over the past eight years are warm, gracious, honest and, believe it or not, hard working. Granted, I don't hang out with street folks, and most of the Filipinos (and Filipinas) I know are college educated, middle class, and employed gainfully. But then, everyone else also has the option to meet this sort of person here, though apparently some don't take advantage of the opportunity.

I've met lots of perpetually angry foreigners here who disdain every attribute of the country. Their (incorrect) views are as skewed and misguided as others who see it as paradise. In fact, what's called for is a much more nuanced, better balanced view. Many of the viewpoints I read herein take no apparent cognizance of enormous regional differences either, though they are profound. It appears that many posters have formed their views from one, or perhaps from an accretion of experiences in Manila or Angeles City or Cebu, which encompass two islands of a nation comprised of more than 7, 000 islands. Why would anyone want to live as an expatriate in a country he despises?

I have no desire to get into any sort of flame war. People have the right to feel and to act as they please, so long as they hurt no one else in the process. However, it seems anomalous, or at least irrational to me to spend the time and money it takes to get here when one is so preternaturally ill-disposed toward finding anything good about the country. Speaking entirely for myself, I would hate to wake up every morning in the throes of that sort of anger.

GEOk fair enough. As I said in previous posts I have already had offers by professional women for places to stay but they are in Manila. THe downside of Manila cannot outweigh their offers of temporary housing for me.

I don't have a completely negative view of the P. I. The women there, in contrast to the women in western nations still have feminine charm and sweetness. They are hard working some of them. This is the reason why I have spent so much time getting to know them and have several good friends there now. I have no grudge to bare against the Filipino people. I will do my best to integrate by trying to isolate myself from some of the problems others have had adjusting to things there. I think one of the biggest problems will be the poor service and lack of access to quality goods and services. I have to disagree with you about the housing. Housing on the same quality level as the USA is not that much cheaper, imo, as in cheaper cities in the USA. Much of the housing there, and I am talking here of rental housing, since I am not looking to buy yet, is substandard and would not be tolerated in the USA, excluding housing that is priced out of the reach of most Filipinos. It's still cheaper than USA, but given the low wages of the P. I. And the fact that for the foreigner it is nearly impossible to make significant money there, makes Phil housing not much of a bargain. The value for the money for housing is much better in Thailand than in the P. I. (as is the food).

It is the gov. Policies that I have a big problem with. The outrageous visa fees, the laws against foreigner ownership of business and property. The corruption and anti-foreigner attitude of the courts there.

But I am coming to retire in peace, so much of this won't effect me, especially if I marry a Filipina who can be trusted.

The other problem is one of cultural differences to which I will have to see if I can adjust.

You have to counter balance this against the negative trends in the USA-a government run by corporations and corrupt politicians, increasing intrusion into our privacy and personal lives, the death of the 'American Dream'.

THe main problem with the middle class, educated ladies is not their lack of generosity I think but the fact that like Western women they do not need a man in their lives, so they are independent and, I find demanding, but not nearly to the extent of many bbaalll busting American woman. So, essentially you cannot have your cake and eat it also, except in rare instances where you can find an intelligent, educated woman who also is happy to take the feminine role (I don't mean doing all the housework).

Also you are quite correct of the huge regional differences there, especially between the major cities and the provincial cities / areas. One problem is that most of the women looking are from big cities with heavy pollution and other big city problems. Davao is better than most, imo, better air, cheaper prices, more provincial in it's attitude. Plus I like their law against smoking and I like that the mayor sticks his neck out to stop crime, but I am not sure I agree with his methods.

[FreebieFan]

It is the gov. Policies that I have a big problem with. The outrageous visa fees, the laws against foreigner ownership of business and property. The corruption and anti-foreigner attitude of the courts there.

But I am coming to retire in peace, so much of this won't effect me, especially if I marry a Filipina who can be trusted.As a foreigner who owns three apartments in Manila (that have all increased by 50% in past 4 years) plus having a 50% share of a very good business I wouldn't worry too much about these laws. They won't affect you or me.

As for fees. Well, the airport tax to exit Manila is what. P750 or about US18. Compare that to the GBP 150 / USD 225 / P 9, 000 plus that is levied to fly long haul out of the UK and I don't think theres much to complain about.

[Frenzy3]

Tco my post was not directed at you so there was no need to reply. What I found strange is you said you know when to quit. Please do so. You need to live here first before you start telling people what you know every one has different ways of dealing with the 3rd world country this place is.

Water gets turned off power can be out every day. Internet down for weeks. Beggars pulling at your clothes. Police arresting you as they need money. Family stealing every thing you own family will travel days just to get money or food from you. Open sewer the smell of shit every place. The dirty streets. People who never wash asking you for money just to leave you alone. Gangs waiting outside your house (yeah it xmass they working out if they can rob the rich guy). That why you see people complain about the place. I am ok with it I actually love it here.

Please just get your butt here then post real experience. For now just chill out.

[Cunning Stunt]

Water gets turned off power can be out every day. Internet down for weeks. Beggars pulling at your clothes. Police arresting you as they need money. Family stealing every thing you own family will travel days just to get money or food from you. Open sewer the smell of shit every place. The dirty streets. People who never wash asking you for money just to leave you alone. Gangs waiting outside your house (yeah it xmass they working out if they can rob the rich guy). That why you see people complain about the place. I am ok with it I actually love it here.Bloody hell mate. Do you live in a tent on smoky mountain?

[Frenzy3]

Bloody hell mate. Do you live in a tent on smoky mountain?Tents do not last in the squatter area, you need tin and plywood

[GoodEnough]

I don't know Frenzy, and admittedly his lifestyle isn't for everyone. However, I've visited many places, in the course of my work, that are similar to his description, which had the distinct ring of authenticity to me. Part of me can even somewhat understand the attraction, though I have no desire to replicate the lifestyle.

GE

[Tanglin]

Tco my post was not directed at you so there was no need to reply. What I found strange is you said you know when to quit. Please do so.Well put Frenzy. Well put

[Questor55]

Water gets turned off power can be out every day. Internet down for weeks. Beggars pulling at your clothes. Police arresting you as they need money. Family stealing every thing you own family will travel days just to get money or food from you. Open sewer the smell of shit every place. The dirty streets. People who never wash asking you for money just to leave you alone. Gangs waiting outside your house (yeah it xmass they working out if they can rob the rich guy). That why you see people complain about the place. I am ok with it I actually love it here.Very few of us, even after spending considerable time here, ever experience the graphic reality of life in this third world country. Probably half of our nubile playmates come from these places that Frenzy 3 describes. The notion that they are 'all' scam artists or gold diggers, is simplistic and false. However, the lifestyle most of us lead, is light years away from this. Hence, a substantial part of our appeal is, if not a door, then at least a window, into a very privileged world.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

as a foreigner who owns three apartments in manila (that have all increased by 50% in past 4 years) plus having a 50% share of a very good business i wouldn't worry too much about these laws. they won't affect you or me.

as for fees. well, the airport tax to exit manila is what. p750 or about us18. compare that to the gbp 150 / usd 225 / p 9, 000 plus that is levied to fly long haul out of the uk and i don't think theres much to complain about.you cannot own apartments and you certainly cannot own the land underneath them.

you may say and think you own them but you don't. it's illegal under phil law.

even foreign corporations who had permission from the phil gov. have had their property and business confirep001ed by the courts there. now your filpina wife or partner can own them but you cannot. this is a big reason why foreign corporations are loath to start companies in the p. i. i had a german friend there that "owned" a postal metering company.

he got so fed up and tied up with all the bribes, extortion, etc that he finally threw up his hands and move lock stock and barrel to fiji where his is much happier. there are some exceptions to the ownership laws, such as if your business involves catering to foreigners or you hire a certain quota of filipina workers. there is also another way to work your business as a front with filipino partners but with you, as the foreigner actually being in control, but this is not the same as owning it outright such as occurs with foreign ownership of businesses in the usa. even in these exception cases, the phil courts will not uphold your ownership if there is a conflict with anyone of importance who is filipino.

also i was comparing the outrageous tourist visa fees and rules in the phil to other third world countries, not western europe. in most central american countries and s. america, vietnam and cambodia all have much easier cheaper fees to remain in the country. it's just another tax levied against foreigners who are welcome to come and spend their money as long as they have permission and pay the correct bribes to the marcos wannabees in phil gov.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

Tco my post was not directed at you so there was no need to reply. What I found strange is you said you know when to quit. Please do so. You need to live here first before you start telling people what you know every one has different ways of dealing with the 3rd world country this place is.

Water gets turned off power can be out every day. Internet down for weeks. Beggars pulling at your clothes. Police arresting you as they need money. Family stealing every thing you own family will travel days just to get money or food from you. Open sewer the smell of shit every place. The dirty streets. People who never wash asking you for money just to leave you alone. Gangs waiting outside your house (yeah it xmass they working out if they can rob the rich guy). That why you see people complain about the place. I am ok with it I actually love it here.

Please just get your butt here then post real experience. For now just chill out.Sounds like Manila to me. I will spend little or no time in Manila, but I do have free housing in a nice house when I go there and will stay with a professional Filipina living an upper middle class lifestyle.

[FreebieFan]

You cannot own apartments and you certainly cannot own the land underneath them.

You may say and think you own them but you don't. It's illegal under Phil law.Mate, I think you might want to do some reading (try Condominium Act or Republic Act 4726) before replying, so you might just know a little bit about what your trying to talk about.

Basically your talking crap and I have the title deeds to prove that you are.

Quite simply non Filipinos are entitled to buy up to 49% of all condo / apartment buildings.

Now go read about that before telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.

You have managed to start lots of little chat wars with your ignorance about the country, so I guess here's another one your trying to start.

Seriously, you know little about this subject so PLEASE don't bother to reply.

[Simian]

[QUOTE=Turdycurdyone; 1227246]You cannot own apartments and you certainly cannot own the land underneath them.

You may say and think you own them but you don't. It's illegal under Phil law.

[QUOTE]Actually foreigners can own condominiums. Although foreigners are not allowed to own or purchase land as such, they are allowed under the law to own a long term lease under certain conditions, which is what owning a condo is really about. In fact, the Condominium Act of the Philippines, R. A. 4726, expressly allows foreigners to acquire condominium units and shares in condominium corporations.

In my experience, when you go to rent an apartment / condo, you have to be careful that you are not being quoted for the taking over of a long lease.

You can check the following website but there are many more on the subject.

http://www.kittelsoncarpo.com/philippines-property-ownership

[TurdyCurdyOne]

[QUOTE=Turdycurdyone; 1227246]You cannot own apartments and you certainly cannot own the land underneath them.

You may say and think you own them but you don't. It's illegal under Phil law.

[QUOTE]Actually foreigners can own condominiums. Although foreigners are not allowed to own or purchase land as such, they are allowed under the law to own a long term lease under certain conditions, which is what owning a condo is really about. In fact, the Condominium Act of the Philippines, R. A. 4726, expressly allows foreigners to acquire condominium units and shares in condominium corporations.

In my experience, when you go to rent an apartment / condo, you have to be careful that you are not being quoted for the taking over of a long lease.

You can check the following website but there are many more on the subject.

http://www.kittelsoncarpo.com/philippines-property-ownershipYou are correct that foreigners can obtain long term leases for CONDOMINUMS, but he said apartments, so maybe thats what he means. This is not the same as ownership per se.

And he does not own the land underneath them. Practically speaking if you have a 99 year lease on a condo, it's almost the same as owning it, but if you don't own the land underneath it, it's kinda like owning a mobile home in a mobile home park my best guess.

What you going to do if they sell the land and want to clear it? The courts there have a.

Reputation for corruption and not honoring foreigners legal and legitimate claims as well as being so slow you can die before anything happens (usually meaning the proper bribes have not been paid yet). I have a filipina friend in cebu who has been waiting for years for her legit claim to land she owns that has been taken over by an airport there.

[Ebauche]

Just an observation. If it looks like a troll, posts like a troll, acts like a troll. It probably is a troll.

Trolls are best just ignored. If they keep getting reactions to the repetitive & curmudgeonly posts they make, they'll keep making them.

Just an observation.

[Tanglin]

Just an observation. If it looks like a troll, posts like a troll, acts like a troll. It probably is a troll.

Trolls are best just ignored. If they keep getting reactions to the repetitive & curmudgeonly posts they make, they'll keep making them.

Just an observation.Yep.


This message is hidden because Turdycurdyone is on your ignore list.'Tis a happy thing

[FreebieFan]

[QUOTE=Simian; 1227270][QUOTE=Turdycurdyone; 1227246]You cannot own apartments and you certainly cannot own the land underneath them.

You may say and think you own them but you don't. It's illegal under Phil law.

You are correct that foreigners can obtain long term leases for CONDOMINUMS, but he said apartments, so maybe thats what he means. This is not the same as ownership per se.

And he does not own the land underneath them. Practically speaking if you have a 99 year lease on a condo, it's almost the same as owning it, but if you don't own the land underneath it, it's kinda like owning a mobile home in a mobile home park my best guess.

What you going to do if they sell the land and want to clear it? The courts there have a.

Reputation for corruption and not honoring foreigners legal and legitimate claims as well as being so slow you can die before anything happens (usually meaning the proper bribes have not been paid yet). I have a filipina friend in cebu who has been waiting for years for her legit claim to land she owns that has been taken over by an airport there.Apartment = condominium. Check your real estate dictionary.

Do you really think the government will take over a 200 unit building, built by Ayala thats in Bonifacio Global City, where the apartments are owned and occupied by embassies, and foreign individuals such as myself, and 51 % owned by prominent Filipinos.

If you do, you truly have shown your lack of knowledge about which you profess to speak.

I suspect you have heard one little story and extrapolated it to become " your truth" and when knowledgable folk such as myself correct you, you now become pedentic and state you didn't know an apartment and condominium might be the same thing. Tsk tsk.

[GoodEnough]

It's my understanding that foreigners can own condominiums and not merely hold long-term leases. The fact is that no person owns the land under the condos; it's owned by the condominium association, of which foreigners, by virtue of their ownership of their apartments, are also part-owners. The market for condo ownership by foreigners appears to be quite healthy in some cities and I'm aware of some guys who own multiple units and who have done so for years with no problems. It's equally true that foreigners cannot own land. This is hardly a revelation.

The corruption of the entire legal system is not new either, and those who suffer the worst from the lack of a functional legal system are not foreigners, but Filipinos. However, it's also true that the lack of legal protection has been identified multiple times by multiple organizations-the ADB and Transparency International being two of them-as a major obstacle that radically diminishes the flow of foreign direct investment.

Again, this is a corrupt, third world country in which a lot of things don't function very well. It also has its positive attributes and there are definite upsides to living here. Those who focus exclusively on the negative, or for whom the negatives vastly outweigh the positives should probably not consider living here. That seems so self-evident that it's hardly worth repeating. Why live in a place that just makes you angry all or most of the time?

Ultimately, we all decide what's best for ourselves. In my case, and I think that in the case of RK, whom I will meet for dinner later tonight, we enjoy for the most part, the quality of our lives here, appreciate what the country has to offer, ignore, for the most part, the negatives and realize that in any case, we cannot change them.

GE

[Blight782]

Tents do not last in the squatter area, you need tin and plywoodAnd a strong post of wood too.

[Pute Nut]

You may say and think you own them but you don't. It's illegal under Phil law.I think you read "too too mut" Phil laws. It's a fun pastime, agreed, but in the end of the day Phil has no rule of law. Money, guns and clans rules. Currently the Aquino clan.

You can do a lot of things the laws say you can't do in Phil. Some advice: be prepared to take a 100% loss in each investment you make. Fly under the radar as much as you can. You'd be surprised what you CAN do and how quick you've recuperated that initial investment. As a bonus you may even find that you still own what you've bought and will be able to sell it at a profit. Risky countries often provide very good returns for those who get their asses over there, instead of spending all their time giving legal lectures on message boards. But thanks for your input. LOL

[Member #4351]

IMHO ten to one he crashes and burns IF he ever makes it to the Philippines, which I seriously doubt will ever happen. But no doubt he will continue to be the only expert on everything Philippine without ever setting foot in the country. As time goes on, he will run out of naive DIA chatmates and hopefully, reasons to post on ISG.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

[quote=turdycurdyone; 1227302]

[quote=simian; 1227270]apartment = condominium. check your real estate dictionary.

do you really think the government will take over a 200 unit building, built by ayala thats in bonifacio global city, where the apartments are owned and occupied by embassies, and foreign individuals such as myself, and 51 % owned by prominent filipinos.

if you do, you truly have shown your lack of knowledge about which you profess to speak.

i suspect you have heard one little story and extrapolated it to become " your truth" and when knowledgable folk such as myself correct you, you now become pedentic and state you didn't know an apartment and condominium might be the same thing. tsk tsk.major foreign own hotel chains have been confirep001ed and given to pinay interests by the courts there, after they have operated successfully in the country for years. reason?

foreigners are not allowed to own biz in p. i.

sure you can come here and give one instance of some condo building that has important people in it that the gov. will leave alone, but if push comes to shove your "ownership" means nothing because the courts there won't honor your legal rights, even very few you do have under phil law.

i think you need a course in reading comprehension? i never said your condo would be

negatively impacted, i only said you don't really own it. you're a foreigner, get it?

i know cognitive dissonance is a bbiittcchh and when you realize that you may have made a huge mistake by investing in the p. i. it hurts to have someone tell you the truth.

you know i don't get flames like this on other boards, it's only those that live there.

they have invested heaviliy in the p. i. and they don't want someone spreading the word of the bad news reality of this country.

keep patting yourself on the back and telling yourself you have standing there, it's always nice to keep up the delusional thinking.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

IMHO ten to one he crashes and burns IF he ever makes it to the Philippines, which I seriously doubt will ever happen. But no doubt he will continue to be the only expert on everything Philippine without ever setting foot in the country. As time goes on, he will run out of naive DIA chatmates and hopefully, reasons to post on ISG.Yawwwnnn. I eat guys like you on my Cherrios.

BTW, how many ids do you have on this board? It's quite obvious your using more than one I'd to support your pathetic flames.

[TurdyCurdyOne]

I think you read "too too mut" Phil laws. It's a fun pastime, agreed, but in the end of the day Phil has no rule of law. Money, guns and clans rules. Currently the Aquino clan.

You can do a lot of things the laws say you can't do in Phil. Some advice: be prepared to take a 100% loss in each investment you make. Fly under the radar as much as you can. You'd be surprised what you CAN do and how quick you've recuperated that initial investment. As a bonus you may even find that you still own what you've bought and will be able to sell it at a profit. Risky countries often provide very good returns for those who get their asses over there, instead of spending all their time giving legal lectures on message boards. But thanks for your input. LOLNo one giving lectures here just responding to some flamers who are starting to wake up to the fact that the Phil is not the great place invested people on this board often claim. In fact, most of the people here are more worried about where they are going to crack their next nut and how she smells than on anything related to quality of life. They come to the P. I. Blow all their money in few weeks and then return to work to save up for their next money blowing trip-same as the suckers that go to Las Vegas. And of course telling the TRUTH about the P. I, something that those who have business interests or are heavily invested there, do not like to hear. They want the many horney dummies on the net to just think they can come to the P. I. And live like Hugh Hefner.

You're right you can do alot and there is no rule of law-precisely what I have been saying all along-AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE IF YOU GET INTO CONFLICT with the wrong Filipino, YOUR TOAST as a foreigner. Unless, of course, you've joined in the corruption and bribing and have made many corrupt Pinay friends. Then you might have a chance at survival. A chance, not a likelyhood. Live by the gun, die by the gun. The Filipinos even have no loyalty for their corrupt leaders. These corrupt leaders played by the corrupt rules that operate there and they STILL got shafted, even with all their corrupt friends. You are a paying guest there, nothing more.

I never said you could not own a biz there, I said you cannot own one LEGALLY, big difference. You're correct in the information you provide in your post, but I guess you

Did not understand or read my intentions. I am not coming there as a young entrepreneur to risk money on businesses and ventures that have a near zero chance of succeeding long term, especially if your profit is more than a pittance by western standards. Maybe you're some young hotshot who thinks nothing of losing all his money and flying back to his native country to make more. For you it's ok to join in the ccrraapp game (with loaded dice) that is doing biz as a foreigner in the Phil. For me, it's not.

Why do you think so many across the world are fighting to come into the USA? And so many are trying their ddaammddesstt to get the hheell out of dodge in the Phil?

One reason is because the USA has laws that, at least in principle, apply to all people here.

And scams by and large are frowned upon and often punished here, whereas in the P. I. They are business as usual.

The reason I come to the P. I. Is that my money speaks LOUDER there and because the women there are more accessible. Not because I share the same delusions about what a great place it is. It's not.

[GoodEnough]

I've been reading back through a couple of pages of this ongoing dialogue; not in the hopes of learning anything, but for the purpose of amusing myself early on a Saturday morning. What strikes me is the irony that many of the posts are written by articulate, obviously intelligent guys, many if not most of whom live here, responding to someone who is not very knowledgeable, who doesn't live here, and for all I know has never been here and may never come here, and who writes posts that sound like they're based on newspaper articles. I'm pretty much done with commenting on what's become a circular discussion.

Simian of course is correct. The government's acting to seize properties constructed by Ayala or SM is absurd, as the real power in this country-as everyone with functioning brain cells and who lives here knows-resides not with the politicians, but with the oligarchs who own them lock, stock and barrel. A government perceived as acting against those interests wouldn't survive the day.

Last night, I spent a few hours with the redoubtable Red Kilt eating a very civilized meal in Greenbelt and watching the world-a very well dressed world-go by, listening to the Manila Orchestra and an opera diva give a free concert to hundreds of locals. The musicianship was quite good, and the ambience was excellent. We could have been anywhere-New York, Paris-and seen the same thing. This is one of the upsides of living here; a side that the guy posting below will never see. As I've indicated countless times before, this can be an excellent place to live assuming you have the basic intelligence to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I guess now I have another candidate for my "Ignore" list.

GE

[TurdyCurdyOne]

I've been reading back through a couple of pages of this ongoing dialogue; not in the hopes of learning anything, but for the purpose of amusing myself early on a Saturday morning. What strikes me is the irony that many of the posts are written by articulate, obviously intelligent guys, many if not most of whom live here, responding to someone who is not very knowledgeable, who doesn't live here, and for all I know has never been here and may never come here, and who writes posts that sound like they're based on newspaper articles. I'm pretty much done with commenting on what's become a circular discussion.

<stuff for tourists snipped

GEReally I think you flaming guys' only hope, those of you who cannot tolerate the truth about the P. I. Is to ban me from the board. You'd better start hunting for TOS reasons to do it, since the flammers here cannot take as good as they give and it is seriously impacting on your delusional ideas about life in paradise there. Since you've been living in the P. I. Long enough I am sure you have no trouble kicking someone off that you don't like-that's the way things are done in the P. I. , especially if you don't keep the money flowing in the right direction.

Fact is the information I post is out of the mouths of the Filpinas I talk to complaining about THEIR OWN COUNTRY. And, I'd trust a newspaper article more than I'd trust the BS shoveled by many of the posters here.

Most of you have been trapped in that bad country way too long.

[Frenzy3]

Today. 10:12.

Turdycurdyone.

Senior Member.

This message is hidden because Turdycurdyone is on your ignore list.

It Works

[Questor55]

Never in the annals of this forum, have so many devoted so much time and effort towards one so insignificant, ignorant, and unworthy. Guys, we all have so many better things to do. Let's all treat him as the non-person he so richly deserves to be. CHAPTER CLOSED!

[WestCoast1]

Really I think you flaming guys' only hope, those of you who cannot tolerate the truth about the P. I.They live there. It would be hard to believe you know the 'truth' about PI better than they do.


Is to ban me from the board.They don't want to do that. They disagreed with you, and just want to ignore you now.


Fact is the information I post is out of the mouths of the Filpinas I talk to complaining about THEIR OWN COUNTRY.Filipinos are somewhat famous for misrepresenting the truth (and by their own admission). They lie for many different reasons. When chatting a Filipino, you have no idea if what is coming out of their mouth is true, false, a bold-faced lie (often told to save face) , or a mistake. I know, that's a slam against the culture (we've discussed recently) , but this is the way it is.


And, I'd trust a newspaper article more than I'd trust the BS shoveled by many of the posters here.TC1, you read those? Philippine Star, Manila Times, The Visayan Daily Star, The Negros Chronicle? I don't find the regulars here shoveling BS, they are simply relating their experiences; what they see, hear, and know. You won't agree with them all, but its hard to deny they are discussing their experiences or views of the culture.


Most of you have been trapped in that bad country way too long.You want to retire there?

[Ebauche]

Does Jackson still do Serial Antagonist voting?

[Member #4351]

I think he is the resurrection of Hug Monster.

[Tanglin]

Never met the Hug Monster, and I'm not sure what a Serial Antagonist is. But I would agree that corralling this guy back into the Chat Rooms and Pen Pals thread, which is the only thing he knows anything about, would be a good idea.

Hey Ebauche. What are we going to do about the Singapore threads? It's dead over there. Any suggestions?

[Ebauche]

Never met the Hug Monster, and I'm not sure what a Serial Antagonist is. But I would agree that corralling this guy back into the Chat Rooms and Pen Pals thread, which is the only thing he knows anything about, would be a good idea.

Hey Ebauche. What are we going to do about the Singapore threads? It's dead over there. Any suggestions?Maybe we could invite the Troll over for an intelligent pricing debate.

[Tanglin]

Maybe we could invite the Troll over for an intelligent pricing debate.We could, although he seems to have packed up his ball and gone home.

[Gangles]

There are many posters in ISG who denigrate pinays, and are unable to believe that good filipinas are just like good women in any country in terms of marriage and permanent relationships.

I belong to a world wide sporting organisation which is particularly well represented in the Philippines. And there are more than a few local, national and international events each year at different locations around the country.

I go to most of these events, which usually run over three or four days. And while I am there I get to meet many of the participants. Almost exclusively, participants are expats, or visitors, with local wives and girlfriends. And what I see are good, strong relationships, guys in their late 50's or older having great fun with their families and kids. Many are having children with their young wives when most guys have given up. And they are loving it, they are happy. You can see that it is making them young.

There are lots and lots of them. And they live good lives, with good women. And kids like they have never had before.

There are plenty of good, ordinary, educated and interesting pinays who want to marry sensible, stable foreigner guys, and remain in their own country.

And I will do the same.

G

[Sammon]

There are many posters in ISG who denigrate pinays, and are unable to believe that good filipinas are just like good women in any country in terms of marriage and permanent relationships.

I belong to a world wide sporting organisation which is particularly well represented in the Philippines. And there are more than a few local, national and international events each year at different locations around the country.

I go to most of these events, which usually run over three or four days. And while I am there I get to meet many of the participants. Almost exclusively, participants are expats, or visitors, with local wives and girlfriends. And what I see are good, strong relationships, guys in their late 50's or older having great fun with their families and kids. Many are having children with their young wives when most guys have given up. And they are loving it, they are happy. You can see that it is making them young.

There are lots and lots of them. And they live good lives, with good women. And kids like they have never had before.

There are plenty of good, ordinary, educated and interesting pinays who want to marry sensible, stable foreigner guys, and remain in their own country.

And I will do the same.

GIt is not the question of outward happiness.

Being married and having kids raises many questions.

Are they truly happy or just have no other option?

Can they trust their very young GF / Wife 100%?

Kids are lovable irrespective of marriage situations.

Like anything else there are good honest women and bad women.

Will their loyalty lie with you or others when there is a crisis?

[GoodEnough]

It is not the question of outward happiness.

Being married and having kids raises many questions.

Are they truly happy or just have no other option?

Can they trust their very young GF / Wife 100%

Kids are lovable irrespective of marriage situations.

Like anything else there are good honest women and bad women.

Will their loyalty lie with you or others when there is a crisis?The questions raised above could be asked of any relationship, in any country, between any two people. It's been my observation that Gangles is correct in his conclusion. I know lots of expats here who have such relationships, who are happy in their relationships, and who have no regrets. Again, the range of relationship possiblities increases exponentially when one steps away from the bars and clubs and away from DIA and other Internet facilitators. Again, I think the difference in perspective, the difference in knowledge lies in the fact that Gangles has spent a hell of a lot of time here with a broader objective than simple mongering.

GE

[Stroker Ace88]

There are many posters in ISG who denigrate pinays, and are unable to believe that good filipinas are just like good women in any country in terms of marriage and permanent relationships.

Participants are expats, or visitors, with local wives and girlfriends. And what I see are good, strong relationships, guys in their late 50's or older having great fun with their families and kids. Many are having children with their young wives when most guys have given up. And they are loving it, they are happy. You can see that it is making them young.

There are lots and lots of them. And they live good lives, with good women. And kids like they have never had before.

There are plenty of good, ordinary, educated and interesting pinays who want to marry sensible, stable foreigner guys, and remain in their own country.The guys who have found real happiness and live a good life in the Philippines are the stories you never hear about. They go about there lives and have found there own slice of paradise. I bump into these guys on a daily basis and the big smiles they have are not painted on.

It's the guys who come to the Philippines with drug and or alcohol addictions, money issues or possess a lack of good judgement are the ones who crash and burn and become the poster child of what not to do. Often they are trying to run from some kind of personal or emotional problem and the longer they spend in the Philippines only magnifies the problem and nothing will change those guys. Once a mess always a mess IMO.

[Devils 1]

The questions raised above could be asked of any relationship, in any country, between any two people. It's been my observation that Gangles is correct in his conclusion. I know lots of expats here who have such relationships, who are happy in their relationships, and who have no regrets. Again, the range of relationship possiblities increases exponentially when one steps away from the bars and clubs and away from DIA and other Internet facilitators. Again, I think the difference in perspective, the difference in knowledge lies in the fact that Gangles has spent a hell of a lot of time here with a broader objective than simple mongering.

GEGE I think you and Gangles do a great job of pointing out the difference. I think we need to go one step further and point out the obvious. The guys that just come here for a short term on some kind of a "bang marathon" will of course only meet p4p type girls and therefore run across more scams and short term money making minded people.

The other distinction is those of us that live here are meeting "normal" women and therefore having longer term relationships with people who have the same wants / desires as us.

[Simian]

The questions raised above could be asked of any relationship, in any country, between any two people. It's been my observation that Gangles is correct in his conclusion. I know lots of expats here who have such relationships, who are happy in their relationships, and who have no regrets. Again, the range of relationship possiblities increases exponentially when one steps away from the bars and clubs and away from DIA and other Internet facilitators. Again, I think the difference in perspective, the difference in knowledge lies in the fact that Gangles has spent a hell of a lot of time here with a broader objective than simple mongering.

GEI agree with everything said here except the comment on DIA. There are plenty of non-mongering possibilities on DIA. As there are no doubt on other sites. I am not saying that DIA is the only place to meet quality girl-friend or wife possibilities but it is one that worked very well for me. There are of course many others. I know guys who went on a course at the local college and met someone. Some meet them through work although I generally keep away from such entanglements. There was even one story of a guy who fell for the landlord's daughter. By far the best way to meet potential long term relationships is through being a nice guy, being sociable, getting invited to parties, not jumping on the first opportunity that you get unless you are really sure. You can play this as either getting into the more educated middle class network or the less educated more working class network and various stages in between.

My own strategy is to have a long term relationship with a 30 year old lady whose home is outside Manila but who visits regularly. In between time, I can have as many short times as I want with the younger ones that I only want for sex and really nothing else. That is not to say that the sex with my regular lady is not fantastic. It is. And in combination with her being really bright and great company, you could not ask for more. But being a man, you still want a bit of variety and this country is great for that as long as you are not living in the boondocks where everyone knows everyone elses business. And my lady has intimated more than once that she expects her man to stray because he is a man but as long as he does not bring home a rival or replacement for her and he wears a condom when he is playing around, she accepts it. I am sensible enough to keep to mongering for my extra fun (although I get temptations from regular girls!) and I never bring girls home or let her see or find out anything about that side of life.

If you can avoid the nastiness in this country and be sensible and safe, it is a kind of heaven for expats. Yes, sometimes the political stuff or the disorganization gets me down too but then I head off for a short time with a little hottie and I feel better already!

[GoodEnough]

Well stated Simian, and from my perspetive, quite accurate. With a little sense, some patience and the right attitude, this can be an excellent place for an expat.

[Red Kilt]

I can concur and empathise with Simian's assessment and recipe for satisfactory long-term residence here, and Good Enough adds further to his very well-stated situation.

I also find that it helps to not spin lies to women. They are not silly, and if you have a good job here and your own condo, and present yourself as neat, tidy and pleasant personality, then they know that your story to a potential lady friend that you do not have any other girlfriends or never see anyone else is just plain bullshit.

As Freebie Friend has said many times, if you are straight with the women and tell them exactly where you stand, they are more impressed with that than with guys spreading BS.

My DIA profile is very specific about wanting fun only and that I am NOT looking for a wife, and I do not post a pic. I get many hits each day, and around 2 out of 10 send me messages saying they like my profile and want me to be friends with them. I don't mind about the other 8 who read and reject.

[Gangles]

I have been travelling back and forth between Australia and the countries of SE Asia for over 15 years. After a while, I began to sense a feeling that hit me when I landed in Australia, but I could not pin it down.

Then, about a year and a half ago, I read an article in Foreign Affairs journal, in which the author was discussing the three dominant psyches in the world.

She said that the dominant psyche in western countries is fear. In Asian countries, it is hope. And in the Islamic world, it is humiliation.

When I read this, it was like she hit me between the eyes. Because when I travel between Australia and the countries of SE Asia, I am travelling between worlds of fear, and worlds of hope. The people in SE Asia tend to be happy and smiling. But when I walk the streets in my own country, I see faces that are sad, worn out.

Another major difference is that my country is a country of old people. The countries of Asia are places of young people. And the difference is palpable.

In my country, at my age, I am just another old worn out lump of nothing. Yet in the Phils, I am respected for my age, my experience, my maturity, and my sensibility.

The women of the Philippines have not yet become infected with the malaise brought on by the feminist movement, such as in the western countries. And in my country, men are second rate citizens. Not so in the Philippines.

Who would want to live in a country like Australia, when I can live in the Philippines, and enjoy all that it has to offer?

G

[TurdyCurdyOne]

I have been travelling back and forth between Australia and the countries of SE Asia for over 15 years. After a while, I began to sense a feeling that hit me when I landed in Australia, but I could not pin it down.

Then, about a year and a half ago, I read an article in Foreign Affairs journal, in which the author was discussing the three dominant psyches in the world.

She said that the dominant psyche in western countries is fear. In Asian countries, it is hope. And in the Islamic world, it is humiliation.

When I read this, it was like she hit me between the eyes. Because when I travel between Australia and the countries of SE Asia, I am travelling between worlds of fear, and worlds of hope. The people in SE Asia tend to be happy and smiling. But when I walk the streets in my own country, I see faces that are sad, worn out.

Another major difference is that my country is a country of old people. The countries of Asia are places of young people. And the difference is palpable.

In my country, at my age, I am just another old worn out lump of nothing. Yet in the Phils, I am respected for my age, my experience, my maturity, and my sensibility.

The women of the Philippines have not yet become infected with the malaise brought on by the feminist movement, such as in the western countries. And in my country, men are second rate citizens. Not so in the Philippines.

Who would want to live in a country like Australia, when I can live in the Philippines, and enjoy all that it has to offer?

GInteresting post. How did Western allow themselves to be subjugated so quickly?

As much as I think the Phil is a mess, I must admit the people there have heart.

But I see this more as a matter of economics and cultural differences than psyche.

When Filipinas come to the USA and live here, they become same as any other American woman-spoiled, demanding, aggressive, masculine. I just got done talking to one, a Filipina 3 or 4, kinda ugly, old and really unattractive in her attitudes. She has moved back to the RofP after her American husband died and now is trolling the net for a foreign partner, but she will never find one with her bad westernized attitudes.

I think if you took some Feminists and put them in the Phil long enough, in the same economic and cultural circumstances as other Filipinas, they would lose many of the bad attitudes. Why? Because they have to.

The other interesting thing to me is how many of the Filipinas have this blind faith in God and how HE will take care of everything. I tell them God helps them that help themselves.

My sympathies to the many effected by the recent floods in CDO and Iligan and wish them a Merry Christmas. My friend in Iligan had her house flooded, but she and her daughter are safe and the water has subsided. She has one electrical cord supplying electricity from one of her relatives and she now has running water, so the politician, in this case did not lie to her.

[LexLuther]

I have been travelling back and forth between Australia and the countries of SE Asia for over 15 years. After a while, I began to sense a feeling that hit me when I landed in Australia, but I could not pin it down.

Then, about a year and a half ago, I read an article in Foreign Affairs journal, in which the author was discussing the three dominant psyches in the world.

She said that the dominant psyche in western countries is fear. In Asian countries, it is hope. And in the Islamic world, it is humiliation.

When I read this, it was like she hit me between the eyes. Because when I travel between Australia and the countries of SE Asia, I am travelling between worlds of fear, and worlds of hope. The people in SE Asia tend to be happy and smiling. But when I walk the streets in my own country, I see faces that are sad, worn out.

Another major difference is that my country is a country of old people. The countries of Asia are places of young people. And the difference is palpable.

In my country, at my age, I am just another old worn out lump of nothing. Yet in the Phils, I am respected for my age, my experience, my maturity, and my sensibility.

The women of the Philippines have not yet become infected with the malaise brought on by the feminist movement, such as in the western countries. And in my country, men are second rate citizens. Not so in the Philippines.

Who would want to live in a country like Australia, when I can live in the Philippines, and enjoy all that it has to offer?

GMakes a lot of sense. In westernized countries such as the USA, we have a lot and we live (rightfully so) in fear of losing it. In the Philippines, most people have so very little. For them, life can only get better. Therefore they have hope.

I was similarly impressed by my visit to RofP.

Of course, one can't ignore the corruption which exists in the Philippines or the frequent lawlessness.

I can't speak about the Arab world. Those people make no sense to me. I believe they are their own worst enemies.

LexLuther

[Ebauche]

And in the Islamic world, it is humiliation.I think the "humiliation" psyche pertains more to the Arab world rather than Muslim. Goes back to being the dominant / most advanced culture during Europe's Dark Ages, then being essentially subjugated / dominated / falling behind after the Crusades. Doesn't necessarily apply to Persian or Asian Islam. Rejecting the scientific / cultural / political advances f the West in preference to the situation of the Islamic supremacy is a driver of Islamic fundamentalism. Recapturing past glory and avenging humiliation.

[GoodEnough]

As always, Gangles provides provocative food for thought. I had never seen the distinction to which he refers, but it strikes me as accurate, though I would add that in the West, it's probably fear as stated, mixed with more than a soupçon of fatigue. People work so hard in the West-to get ahead, or merely to keep their heads above water-that they've lost perspective: when life and work are synonomous, there's not much room for enjoyment. Thomas Friedman of the New York Times has written often and eloquently about the pervasive sense of humiliation in the Arab or the Arabic Muslim world, and I think that's correct as well. So if you eliminate living in the West, because it's fearful and tired, and you eliminate the entire Middle East for obvious reasons, you're left with Asia. Then if you eliminate the cold parts of Asia, you're left with SE Asia. Proceeding with the elimination process, if you remove from consideration those SE Asian countries where English isn't widely spoken or understood, you arrive at the Philippines. Now I have the perfect, logical reason for staying here. Thanks Gangles!

GE

[Cunning Stunt]

While my eventual goal is to marry a smart and sexy Pinay........with big tits, I presume?

[Cunning Stunt]

SM and Pure Gold (same parent company?) have done away with plastic grocery bags and replaced them with cheap and flimsy brown paper efforts. I would like to think that this is for much needed environmental considerations but knowing Philippine business practices, I somehow doubt it. Probably it has more to do with them being cheaper to provide and increases the sale of their 10 pesos fabric bags. But give them the benefit of the doubt and applaud their effort.

I was walking behind a tasty young Pinay yesterday, admiring the stitching on the rump area of her tight blue jeans (as you do) , when her bottom fell out. No, I didn't wake up at this point with a spreading wet patch on my boxers, the bottom in question was of her grocery bag. Sir Galahad immediately galloped to the rescue and I retrieved rolling tins of sardines and packets of instant noodles from the road as she dashed off to a nearby vendor to beg a plastic bag. I was rewarded with a lovely smile and a shyly mumbled 'thank you' for my efforts and enjoyed an immediate testosterone high which made my day (sad, I know). What I forgot to do in the excitement of the moment, was ask her for her CP No. Shit, am I losing my touch?

[WestCoast1]

Sir Galahad immediately galloped to the rescue and I retrieved rolling tins of sardines and packets of instant noodles from the road as she dashed off to a nearby vendor to beg a plastic bag. I was rewarded with a lovely smile and a shyly mumbled 'thank you' for my efforts and enjoyed an immediate testosterone high which made my day (sad, I know).Not at all. A while back, I left the dome light on inside my car in the driveway. The battery was dead in the morning. The neighbor lady (early 30's) saw me with my hood up, and she offered to jump-start my car with hers. I was off to work in a jiffy; she saved my day. A day later I picked her up a bottle of wine and left it on her doorstep with a note of thanks. The next day I was out washing the car and she came over to thank me for the wine. Literally she started to gush, and in 60 seconds she regressed to that 15-year-old high school girl. I watched her 'young girlie' emotional self unfold like a fast-motion video of a flower blooming. I half-expected her to twirl her hair with her fingers. I, too, regressed some, and felt the testosterone rush (like the football player in high school about to ask the cheerleader out). Alas, the moment ended in under two minutes and nothing happened. That moment actually made my weekend happy.

[Stroker Ace88]

SM and Pure Gold (same parent company?)To the best of my knowledge they are two different companies. SM Prime Holdings is owned by the "Sy" family. Pure Gold is owned by the "Lucio" family. I am not sure if it's the same billionaire Lucio Tan who owns a majority stake in PAL but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Cunning Stunt]

To the best of my knowledge they are two different companies. SM Prime Holdings is owned by the "Sy" family. Pure Gold is owned by the "Lucio" family. I am not sure if it's the same billionaire Lucio Tan who owns a majority stake in PAL but it wouldn't surprise me.The Chinese Filipino super elite that are probably related by intermarriage within their families. Just seemed odd that both stores adopted the same cheap, flimsy brown paper grocery bags at the same time. Robinson's still use plastic. Whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if turnover for last week (when the change was effected) had not dropped marginally at SM and Pure Gold. Filipinos are inherently reactionary and dislike change.

[Tally Wacker]

Paper or Plasic Sir?


The Chinese Filipino super elite that are probably related by intermarriage within their families. Just seemed odd that both stores adopted the same cheap, flimsy brown paper grocery bags at the same time. Robinson's still use plastic. Whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if turnover for last week (when the change was effected) had not dropped marginally at SM and Pure Gold. Filipinos are inherently reactionary and dislike change.

[Stroker Ace88]

The Chinese Filipino super elite that are probably related by intermarriage within their families. Just seemed odd that both stores adopted the same cheap, flimsy brown paper grocery bags at the same time. Robinson's still use plastic. Whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if turnover for last week (when the change was effected) had not dropped marginally at SM and Pure Gold. Filipinos are inherently reactionary and dislike change.Just by chance the other day I noticed a sign at the checkout counter of SM grocery store located in SM mall Cebu it read something to the effect;

To our valued customers, SM mall has adopted plastic bag free weekends and encourage our customers to bring there own reusuable bags to help the environment. Policy in effect Friday, Saturday and Sundays.

[Red Kilt]

Just by chance the other day I noticed a sign at the checkout counter of SM grocery store located in SM mall Cebu it read something to the effect;

To our valued customers, SM mall has adopted plastic bag free weekends and encourage our customers to bring there own reusuable bags to help the environment. Policy in effect Friday, Saturday and Sundays.SM Megamall now charges 3 cents per bag for plastic as a step towards getting you to bring your own bags.

I am unsure of the date but I understand a Philippine law is coming into effect banning plastic bags sometime soon and the malls are preparing the way.

[D Cups]

.with big tits, I presume?Haha of course! I would even consider buying her a nice pair of bolt-ons! It is hard to explain this addiction to boobs, CS. I think it has something to do with my very first sexual experience. When I was about 12, my 16 year old cousin Barbara who was babysitting decided she wanted to wrestle me. The next think I know I'm straddling her double D's (with my pants on and a hard on). I recall it like it was yesterday.

My first girlfriend in high school was a Japanese-American cheerleader with a nice rack, too. Ahhhh, the mammaries.

I have dated flatter chested girls but to me the boobs are what I need. To each his own.

CS, I look forward to meeting you sometime in my travels. If any of these dates coincide with your travels, let's team up, wild man! Kindly let me know! RK, if you are reading this, I would like to buy you some SMs, too!

8. 10 March: Makati.

11-14: BKK (presenting at a conference)

15- 17: PNH (first time)

18. 23: SGN (working)

24-26: CGK (first time)

27-29: Malate.

30-31: DMG (Dumaguete, for the lesser-informed) ; house-hunting.

April 1-2: Stay in DMG or go to Siquijor again, or maybe Cebu. Not sure, yet.

I'll not berate Asia Rain any more. Perhaps he's learned his lesson.

[FreebieFan]

SM Megamall now charges 3 cents per bag for plastic as a step towards getting you to bring your own bags.

I am unsure of the date but I understand a Philippine law is coming into effect banning plastic bags sometime soon and the malls are preparing the way.Hong Kong has had such a law for along time. They did a check after a couple of years and found that the plastic bag useage had actually increased.

[Member #4351]

I'll not berate Asia Rain any more. Perhaps he's learned his lesson.Yes you should definitely learn that discretion is the better part of valor. Asian Rain is a highly respected and valued contributor to the forum. You will find few if any who will be backing you up in your little tiff and continuing your potshots at him will only make you look worse. As you are aware you are on moderated status now so you should just stick to posting information.

[D Cups]

Yes you should definitely learn that discretion is the better part of valor. Asian Rain is a highly respected and valued contributor to the forum. You will find few if any who will be backing you up in your little tiff and continuing your potshots at him will only make you look worse. As you are aware you are on moderated status now so you should just stick to posting information.Oh no, another AR defender! I am just shaking in my boots for all the misguided support this guy gets! I suggest you leave it alone, too, David. As for moderated status, who cares? I don't! I will not tolerate any poster who attacks me! Why don't you guys go out and get laid and leave me alone? Isn't THAT what the forum is for?

[Member #4491]

As you are aware you are on moderated status now so you should just stick to posting information.Or photos of huge jugs, because this my dear Mr D Cups do well indeed.

Speaking of which I today found out that Miss Big Tit Milk Squirt is 5 months pregnant. How fortunate is not this pervert to have scheduled a date in just days with such a little resourceful bunny. I did post pictures of her and her milk dripping jugs in the past so I will not repeat myself, but once we passed the first week of March I will be happy to refer any visitors to Mindanao to this lovely liberated teen.

Barba

[D Cups]

Or photos of huge jugs, because this my dear Mr D Cups do well indeed.Indeed, Barba! There is nothing like the sweet taste of a young mamas milk! Then bang her silly! I am going to Dumaguete just to do that! Enjoy those boobs, Barba! I know you will!

[Gangles]

RK posted recently that SM are charging 3 pesos per plastic bag.

We have similar campaigns here in Australia, based on the wildly exaggerated claims that plastic bags are clogging up the oceans and choking large numbers of sea turtles and other wildlife to death.

We are given the impression of our oceans becoming clogged with plastic waste.

I had a recent relevant experience.

Recently I sailed with a frien on a 36'yacht from Phuket to south of Manila. 3,000 km, and 30 days.

My daughter had been berating me about plastic bags and sea turtles, so I was counting every plastic bag that I saw.

We were sitting less than a metre above the sea surface, so they were easy to see.

In the 3, 000 km, I saw 4 plastic bags. Including sailing down the west coast of Thailand, through the Straits of Malacca, and into inner Singapore harbour.

The oceans that I saw are pristine.

Maybe we are being fed another load of codswallop.

G

[Gangles]

Hey RM, I have heard these stories too about huge floating dumps of plastic bags in the middle of the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian oceans. This is a story peddled by the environmental lobby to create the fear campaign.

However, as I understand it, nobody has found any one of them. And the entire earth and oceans is covered by high resolution satellite imagery, so they should not be hard to find.

I have read somewhere that masses of shreds of floating plastic have been found, but the shreds are very small, and should / will not be harmful to marine animals.

Thiis story about plastic bags in the oceans is now essential propaganda to the environmental lobby's fear campaign about vast numbers of plastic bags choking to death huge numbers of marine animals.

My daughter works in a local zoo, and she gets excited about these things. She was berating me some time ago about this. She had just been to a talk given by a "green activist" about sea turtles being choked by plastic bags off the coast of Australia. The speaker had told the audience at the zoo that tens of thousands of sea turtles were killed this way every year in Australia.

So I checked, spoke to my local EPA, the state EPA, the national EPA, and the actual number of recorded deaths was not tens of thousands, it was five (5).

When I told my daughter, she was right pissed off that I had resorted to getting known facts.

Just goes to show. The real raw numbers tell the truth.

G.


Gangles. Supposedly there is a massive bag graveyard in the middle of the Pacific Ocean where all the currents of the world collect up and deposit these pesky bags. Also supposedly, this middle sea of bags is so remote that its off the common sea lanes, so only the marine scientists who study these things ever see all these bags.

I've never been to this remote area myself, so I can't refute or deny said claims.

[Riverman]

My daughter works in a local zoo, and she gets excited about these things. She was berating me some time ago about this. She had just been to a talk given by a "green activist" about sea turtles being choked by plastic bags off the coast of Australia. The speaker had told the audience at the zoo that tens of thousands of sea turtles were killed this way every year in Australia.

So I checked, spoke to my local EPA, the state EPA, the national EPA, and the actual number of recorded deaths was not tens of thousands, it was five (5).

When I told my daughter, she was right pissed off that I had resorted to getting known facts.

Just goes to show. The real raw numbers tell the truth.

G.Yeah, I've had those run ins with environmental nuts too. They pound the tables about "facts" and "science" and when you provide credible sources and facts to puncture their environmental fantasies, they get right livid with you. I had a hilarious conversation with this chick I used to know in California (in all other respects she was a sane, level headed individual) and we got to debating oil drilling and global warming and all that tripe. Of course it could go no where, but as a little experiement and to have a bit of fun, I told her that they had found Helium 3 in great abundance on the moon and that soon we wouldn't have to drill for oil or even uranium for nuclear in order to supply all earth's energy needs. I asked her, isn't that great that no more despoiling mother earth for energy resources and no more hydrocarbon emmissions? She freaked out! Now you bastards are going to destroy the mooon! Come on, its a lifeless rock! No treefrogs, or spotted owls!

[Tanglin]

Hey RM, I have heard these stories too about huge floating dumps of plastic bags in the middle of the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian oceans. This is a story peddled by the environmental lobby to create the fear campaign.

However, as I understand it, nobody has found any one of them. And the entire earth and oceans is covered by high resolution satellite imagery, so they should not be hard to find.

I have read somewhere that masses of shreds of floating plastic have been found, but the shreds are very small, and should / will not be harmful to marine animals.

Thiis story about plastic bags in the oceans is now essential propaganda to the environmental lobby's fear campaign about vast numbers of plastic bags choking to death huge numbers of marine animals.Here's a wikipedia entry about it. Take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch

It does make sense that "stuff" would accumulate in a gyre, and make equal sense that sailors would rarely see these are they're well away from shipping lanes and wind. I would also agree that, just like climate change, a bit of good science is being hijacked by activists to create hysteria. Too bad the hysteria ultimately hurts their cause more than it helps it.