View Full Version : China Women - Opinions and Advice
Pages :
1
[
2]
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
Great report Pazusu and terrific attitude. Not hard to see why you do well in China. Actually the same good attitude works well in every country.
Well done and keep it up!
Marconista
08-24-04, 17:27
Just wondering what happened to Dashman and the Lady next door!
Did the husband get to him?
Dashman!
Please update us.
The vast majority of hotties that I see in China are walking on the sidewalk as I pass them by.
I have yet to devise an effective strategy for moving from "Wow, look at that stunner." to enjoying some time with her in bed.
I think the successful strategy will look something like this:
a) asking for directions (or maybe for help reading a Chinese SMS)
b) inviting her for a drink
c) getting her mobile#
d) inviting her out for a nightime date
e) getting her to a hotel room
Has anybody devised a strategy that works a good 20% of the time with strangers out in public?
The next door lady.
Many of the forum members advised me to exercise caution. In general I don't take risk. Therefore, nothing happened till 4th september 11am.
On August 30, I moved to a new place. A day before that, my Chinese couple next door gave me a nice Chinese dinner. I was late by 20 min in the restaurent. The lady formally received me with a bunch of flowers. Her 'man' was in good mood and forced me to gan bei few times. Every thing went very well.
After handing over keys to the agent, I just went to see her and say thanks and bye. She said 'see you later' and gave a cell number, in case I need any help.
I was busy in settling down at my new place for first few days. On Friday, I decided to call her and have a spicy chat, with no intention to call her to my place. But during the conversation I almost told her how to get to my place. At the end, she offered me lunch and said she will bring every thing. Just reheat and have. I did not feel nothing unusual as she has brought eatable many times to my old house, even at midnight. Perhaps, she also must not have thought of having any excitement here. She just wand to meet me. That's all.
Dot 11.00, she was at my door. Brought pizza, g/bread, some fruits and ice cream. She said she want to go back only at 5 in the evening. I was expecting the plumber around 3, which I postponed. She went inside the toilet and took more than 20 minutes. Later when I went, I could see her wet pantyliner in the trash bin. Oh... then bang her today!!
When I came out she was checking my DVD collections. Nothing much I have. She asked for 'love movie'. I only had some hardcore type. I just gave a few and aksed her to choose. She prefferd to watch the movie in my small bed room set. We watched the movie for 5 minutes siting on the bed. All of a sudden, she gave me a hard bite on my ear and switched off the TV. She was almost to explode and held me tight. I knew this is the time to act. I never experienced like this. really wonderfull. Her every parts were in excellent shape and condition. silky skin, nice tist, very nice ass (I liked it the most) and nicely trimmed pubic hair and the holy palce.
After an hour every thing cooled down she helped me to change the bed cover. The slept (or acted?)for some time. Then she made coffe for me and tea for her. After that I suggested to have bath together. With little reluctance she came in. Nice, I asked for BJ. Not experienced. After bath she was in towel and started drying her hair. 4'O clock - one more hour to go. This time I invited. She gave me a better BJ. We finished with an FS. She changed quickly and gave me a 10-minutes long kiss before leaving. Both of us did not talk about her 'man' may be because it spoils the mood. After getting into the taxi she waved her hand and said 'zai jian' in true meaning.
"The end" for the time being. I am still in a hang over.
Dashman
Privateguy88
09-06-04, 03:28
During my last trip to Shanghai, I went to Malone's for a drink and possible pick up a chick.
I made eye contact with a girl alone in the corner. I walked passed her and said "hi". I came back, chatted about various things.
After about 3 minutes, I told her it was late (after midnight) and I was going back to my hotel room in a few minutes and she was welcome to come with me. Without hesitation, she accepted.
Got back to the room and had a lot of fun. No charge.
How do we get in on the field trials for this?!?
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/06/china.viagra.reut/index.html
Chinese women 'line up for Viagra'
BEIJING, China (Reuters) -- In the latest sign of relaxing sexual mores in China, the prospect of orgasms and better sex has led scores of Chinese women to sign up for tests of "female Viagra" at a Beijing hospital, state media said on Monday.
"More than 200 female volunteers had registered by the end of August to act as guinea pigs for clinical testing by the Beijing. University No. 1 Hospital," Xinhua news agency said.
The agency did not say what "female Viagra" was, but in August the online edition of the Southern Daily described it as a cream but did not elaborate.
The unexpected response to the tests prompted the hospital to expand the sampling to 400 recruits, Xinhua said.
"Organizers realize that more independent and outspoken Chinese women are paying attention to the quality of their sex life, a long-time taboo in Chinese society," the agency said.
"Volunteers range from women in their early 20s to a 63-year-old housewife, but most are middle-aged career women," it added.
A survey conducted a decade ago concluded that 50 percent of Chinese women did not achieve orgasm during sex.
More recently, China's Institute of Sexology and the Chinese Medical Association launched the first nationwide survey of women's sexual experiences, Xinhua said.
Attitudes towards sex relaxed after China began Western-style market reforms in 1978, unleashing a boom in adolescent dating, adultery, prostitution and other kinds of promiscuity.
The Communist Party blamed it all on liberal bourgeois morals imported from the West.
Very interesting forum. I feel I should also write something.
I was in China for 18 months from 1999 till 2001. All in all a nice experience. I am not the handsomest guy but I still raise some sights ;) and I was lucky to meet truly gems in China. I will thell you about three of the more remarkable
The first one was working for a Radio Station. A great girl, misstreated by her boyfriend who she was living with. She loved sex and loved doing it with me because i was bigger and harder than her bf. She taught me very interesting things about China and showed me lots of nice places and things that otherwise you wouldnt see. We were just friends and we still are. On my advise she left the guy and went on to live alone. I helped her as much as I could, after I left china she met a japanese guy and now lives happily married in L.A.
The second one was working for a forwarder company (such as DHL), good english, she was beautiful and she was a truly nympho. Sex with her was great, great BBBJ, always wet, always true orgasms, always willing. It was one of the best girls I have ever been with. She truly loved me but I couldnt stay forever in China. I had a great time with her, I even wanted to marry her (a bit crazy I was) but she said she must stay in china to care for her parents when they get old. After I left we tried to keep the relation (with the promise of going back to work in China) but soon after it was all over. I hope she is happy, and she finds someone who loves her. She does not like chinese boys because they misstreated her several times.
The third one was working as an artist, kinda painting and drawing type of artist. We met on the internet and had chats about sex and about likings of both of us. Once I asked her to come to my place which she did. It was great, she wasnt that thin but it was very good, lots of passion, she was damn sexy and dressing like a top model with those "victoria's secrets green lace panties"... it was great.
I had friends for whom the virginity was very important. They would let me kiss them and touch them (everywhere) but they wouldnt have sex. I respect that.
The story can go on and on. I also did a lot of P4P in Beijing mostly with mongolian girls in Maggie's Bar. Some of those girls are really nice, specially if they are not so experienced and just arrive to Beijing, otherwise they start liking money too much and become real bitches (attitude talking).
Just a glimpse of chinese girls, make your own minds.
A lot of you guys have been talking about meeting girls on the internet then hooking up for freebies.
I am just wondering where and how you meet them?
Any pointers would be great! Thanks.
Member #2085
09-20-04, 13:42
Hi Ambler,
My strategy for freebies is to offer free english lessons. If she doubts, tell her you want to practice Chinese but you just can't find anyone. You then invite the target to your flat (if you have one) and show some dedication by teaching her a few words. This is actually a lot of fun, especially if you speak Chinese. You can use the "english class" strategy to introduce words with a sexual connotation.
This strategy works well with girls who have a job but don't speak good english, but especially well with those who haven't been to university.
Member #2085
09-20-04, 13:57
I need advice on how to make a 26 y.o. Chinese girl change her mind about having sex with me. I am young and certainly not ugly.
She is a friend, but she sometimes works for money. We have known each other for a few months. She knows I have a steady Chinese girlfriend. We often fool around, but every time we are about to have sex, she starts her boring rhetoric that goes like this: Chinese girls have small vaginas, foreigners have a big toy, and she thinks all foreigners have Aids. So basically, she is afraid. I have offered her money, but that does not seem to be the issue. I have had to deal with such cases before, but this is the firs time I can't get around it.
Have you guys encountered anything like this before? I want this girl.
You can meet them in all chats, ICQ, MSN, Yahoo, etc, etc... there are also chinese chats in sina.com, etc.
You talk a few times, send a picture (sometimes get a picture back) and if you are not too old/fat/ugly they will agree to an appointment... Do not hurry too much, enjoy time with the girls and enjoy the intercultural exchange!. If you are learning some chinese that will also help you a lot to improve.
Some girls are very open minded and really good friends and although many of them are really looking for a bf some just want to have fun.
Ryck
Member #2085,
I suggest you stick with foreplay. If she has reluctance about the old in-and-out then just let that be. Be satisfied with BJ and HJ. If she gets really hot during the foreplay she will probably want to go all the way. If not, you can still enjoy yourself. After mutliple sessions of this it will probably escalate.
You will probably push her away if you keep trying to get her to do somehting she's not comforatble with.
Travel Dog
09-27-04, 12:42
Member #2085
Get her drunk.
Clandestine782
09-30-04, 18:33
Here is the problem:
I am living in the middle of a cornfield and about to die for want of vagina. These girls here are about 22 nubile years old and have the brains of 12 year olds.
Part of what I wanted to get out of this second trip to China was a wife. I am not opposed to taking a hooker out of a sauna job or someplace like that. I had one the other day whose snatch was so good that I would have married her right there if she'd asked me. I have never had my brains turned into silly putty in that particular way.
You guys are always talking about meeting nymphos here and there, but I don't think that that is going to happen for me.
What do you know about ways to meet girls that are such that they know you are interested in marriage?
I've recently come back to Fuzhou and was looking up a friend of mine. Several years ago he introduced me to a cousin of his and told me that all I had to do was fill out the paperwork and we were married. (I would have had to teach her English, though).
Is the easiest way to go and try to put a young prostitute (working for one month or less) into retirement? Or is there some other way?
I've talked to some people that went to the Philippines in pursuit of vagina, and they said that they just got girls out of the bar and married them. Send me a private message if you have any commentary on this.
Clandestine,
Most likely the girl in Fuzhou will marry you alright. Then when you get to the usa laugh her ass off because she didnt have to pay you to do it. Nearly everyone in Fuzhou wants to go to the usa. Avoid finding a wife there.
Tinybobo1002
09-30-04, 23:05
Clandestine 782,
Stay away from girls from Fujian, where the chinese mafia controls everything. Your 'wife', after coming to North America, will end up working as a pro in New York city. Fujian is like a 'cornfield' in China. Don't move from one to another.
Member #1701
10-01-04, 04:53
Dear Clandestine,
It's not difficult to get married to a Chinese especially when you're in China. I don't know how old or of what descent you are, so I'm just grabbing at some straws here.
If you're only looking for sex and not for a lifetime companion, my suggestion is - don't get married.
Otherwise, there are plenty girls in the big cities i.e GZ, BJ, S'hai working in KTVs that are looking for foreign hubbies - u may want to try that.
Why KTVs? Well, girls in the KTVs have a choice (if they want to sleep with a customer or not), so I like to think that they have a brain or two ... Also, KTVs have a higher criteria of hiring i.e beauty, brains, conversation, etc.
I hope this helps.
Clandestine782
10-01-04, 22:19
I am black American. An introverted, cerebral black American who doesn't really network/ socialize with his own people for lack of having anything in common with them.
A lifetime companion might be nice, but the sex has to go in there somewhere.
A lot of these girls in China have convinced themselves that they don't like sex.
The Fujian incident was several years ago. And when I went back there, it seems that the person that I was planning to visit has up and disappeared without a trace.
Thanks for that advice about the Fujian mafia. Something was not right about that situation, and a translator that I had suggested to me that that was not the way to do it. I think that he knew the same thing you guys have mentioned but was being too nice to say anything.
If you are still willing to talk on this topic, let's explore this issue of KTV girls. There are none in Chaozhou. And I can't see trying to move to Guangzhou just to meet a KTV girl. And has anyone ever heard of a person getting a girl out of one of these places and being succesful? Think about it: After the work they do, the probably despise men and think of them as nothing but cash dispensers. And I have a good reason to believe this after an incident that I witnessed at the barbershop this evening.
So what would you say about KTV girls in detail?
PsyberZombie
10-01-04, 23:48
Tonight Only !!
A Special Joke about Chinese Women over on the "Jokes and Humorous Stories" Board
Check it out !!
Travel Dog
10-02-04, 00:29
Clandestine782
KTV Girls as Girlfriends? I've been coming to China for four years and I am currently about to start trip #27. Actually, I spend more time in China than the States. From my first KTV girl experience to today I have formed a lot of opinions on the K girl subject.
The usual story from the girl is they come to the city from the countryside to support their families. Most often the entire family in dependent on the girl for support. " Mei you ban fa" (No choice) they say. They must work. They have no other skills other than their beauty and that will last for only a few years. So they have to make money or otherwise secure their future i.e. marriage before their beauty passes. The bear it very well. But the stories are always similar. Father can’t work, Mother is sick, Brother needs school. They all lie about their work to their hometown friends and family. If you get involved with one of these girls remember you get, that means support, the whole family. Fortunately, if you go down that road it isn’t expensive by our standards.
They will say they are doing office work or working in a store. They usually have a hometown friend working KTV in the city so they show up with a few clothes and crash there.
My current girlfriend did work in a KTV for two weeks before I met her. Not enough time to be corrupted by the life. So she was sweet and tender and still is two and ½ later. She realizes her job is works and me very hard to take care of me in every way possible.
But overall I would not recommend a KTV girl as a girlfriend. They get too corrupted. Just my two cents.
Tinybobo1002
10-02-04, 02:36
Clandestine 782,
If you want sex to unload yourself, go to bbs for a quick and cheap fix. If your goal is a long term relationship like a marriage, try chat rooms. You may have to brush up your social skills first.
KTV girls are pros at a higher rate, so they are like those in bbs. They are good options if you go with a big group first for a drink, some singing and chinese dice games.
Try chat rooms. It is like an all you can eat chinese buffet. It takes time, though. Good luck.
Travel Dog,
Can you explain what exactly is to be expected in a ktv.
What is a ktv girl?
Thanks
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard capitalization and punctuation. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no caps or punctuation. Thanks!
Clandestine782
10-02-04, 22:09
I was toying with the idea of going to a major city (Guangzhou). What is the atmosphere like there?
What I suspect is this: There will be a lot of black men there, and for the few women that are interested in us, they will be swooped up by black Africans.
There will also be a lot of foreigners there that will be very hostile toward and unhelpful to each other.
If any of you guys live in a big city, give me some scenarios.
Global Citizen
10-03-04, 05:06
Hey People !
What is all this Fuzhou bashing that's going on here ? I've lived here for 6 years and NOT everyone wants to go to the USA - and the women here are NOT controlled by the mafia. I happen to have a lot of friends in the so-called Fuzhou mafia (does not really exist) and I can tell you that prostitution is not one of their sources of income as being a pimp is a capital offence here in China and when discovered, the government will be more than happy to shoot you and send you the bill for the bullet.
Girls here are just like everywhere else in China.
BBS - 100 RMB
KTV - 100 RMB to sit with you and drink, 300 RMB to take somehere for FS
Saunas - 300-400 RMB for FS
Bar Girls - 0 RMB - get them drunk, take them to a sauna for fun
But the best here is the availability of freebies - they're everywhere !
Any questions, PM me.
GC
OldAsiaHand
10-03-04, 13:57
Clandestine782,
If you are really single, you will have no trouble at all finding a Chinese girl for marriage. If you are in GD ChaoZhou, I would suggest Shantou nearby where there is a major university and plenty of eligible candidates. Having said that, major cities may offer more opportunity for meeting English speaking girls and, I don't think Guangzhou is necessarily the best.
I would not recommend a pro of any sort. Even though there may be some gems mixed in, the chances are slim. IMHO, they get spoiled with the fast life very quickly.
My only advise is take your time and get to know the girl well before taking the leap.
Just my POV.
OAH
Travel Dog
10-03-04, 19:17
Vander22
KTV is short for Karaoke. This rage began in Japan and it has spead to all of Asia. It is singing along with prerecorded music.
A ktv girl is a girl who works in a ktv. They sit with you, drink, play games and otherwise make a man feel good. They work for tips only. Many will also go home or go to a hotel room in the ktv with a customer for sex but this is not completely certain and is up to the girl. Many are pros but some of the smaller KTVs have a mix of pros and non-pros. Prices and mileage vary so it is best to go with someone who knows what is going on for the first few times.
Clandestine782
10-03-04, 19:25
OAH,
Get that mailbox cleaned out. I wanted to send you something but had to post it here.
Why is GZ not necessarily the best, as you see it?
What is your take on the normal progression of steps in pursuing a girl? I have heard people say things like: Spend so much time with them that they are not afraid to fall asleep on your bed. I am not interested in smothering the girl. Nor in investing that much time.
What I have done so far is this: Knowing that people here spend a lot of time gossiping about other people, I put it in the ear of my boss that I was interested in finding a wife. That way, I figure, prospective candidates can talk to me and try to develop friendships without knowing that I know that they know my intentions.
I talked to a girl about a week ago, and she has invited me to go shopping with her tomorrow. I don't know if this is a test to see if I will buy her something. Or if this is what she thinks is the first step toward my eventually seeing her vagina. What do you suspect?
How would you recommend separating the types that want a free English lesson from those that are serious prospects? If you can answer that question, you will be forever respected in this forum. I think that it's something that all men want to know......
Clandestine782, you don't need to find a girlfriend at KTV. If you are serious about finding a wife and not just a sex partner than you must get to know the girl first. I have seen Chinese girls with African-American however they must get to know and trust you first. You must realize that they know nothing about you except that you will take them to a country far away. They may have a great life with you or it could be a living Hell. They must get to know you before they are willing to take that chance.
Second, don't think that all Chinese girls wants to come to the U.S. It depends on their way of life in China. If you meet a wealth girl she would not want to come to the U.S. because her life in China will be 10x better than her life in the U.S. She can hire and usually have a maid for $50/month, the money goes a long way in China, she can go to any country she wants on vacation include the U.S. therefore there is nothing she really wants in the U.S.
A Chinese-American friend of mine found a beautify and well to do girl who fell in love with him however they almost broke up because she did not want to leave China. They finally agreed that she comes to the U.S. for 3 years then he would move back to China with her for 3 years, then they will play by ear on where they will finally live.
I have talked to her a few times and she really doesn't like it here in the U.S. Her compliant is that she has to do everything herself, no maid, no cook and very few friends.
Therefore my advices to you is to find someone who you really like, get to know them and become friends first and then move slowly.
Seen too many marriages that broke up after a couple of years because they moved too fast and the girl did not know what the U.S. is really like.
Another suggusting is to bring her to the U.S. first before marrying her just to let her know what kind of life she will have here in the U.S. If everything goes OK then you can marry her within the 3 months allowed, if not then she can go home. I have seen a couple of friends who's girlfriends choose to go home after 3 months rather than marry and stay in the U.S. Just trying to help.
Hi OldAsiaHand
Seems that you're quite familiar with Chaozhou and Shantou.
I've been there a few times, but cannot find a wife. Maybe it is because I was there for only a few days each time.
Care you share your experience there? thank you.
zorrow
[Email Address deleted by Admin]
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending removal of email addresses in the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system to exchange this information. Thanks!
Travel Dog,
Thanks cleared up a lot for me as i have been to ktv before.
Do you know is there a sure way of knowing wich girl can come to the hotel with me (asking her or someone else?)
OldAsiaHand
10-04-04, 11:21
Clandestine782,
I cleaned out the mailbox. I reckon many GZ girls prefer Hong Kong guys because of the language and early influx of HK business into S. China. The English language proficiency is lower than in other major metros in China. And, GZ girls overall are not that attractive. Shanghai girls are American inclined but can be very materialistic. Northern girls can be very straightforward. My favorites are from Sichuan both in and out of bed, but English is found less there too.
I am not the best source on how to approach Chinese girls for marriage. I met mine through a mutual friend, but things may have been different 10 years ago. There was fairly long courtship involved compared with the freebies I hear about posted on this board. And, Csun has a point; the last think my wife wants to do is go back and live in the states.
Nor, am I am expert to distinguish gold diggers or free English lessons from the real thing. Sometimes the signals are there, but it is very difficult to read many Chinese girls. It takes time.
Sorry I can't be of more help. I am normally a P4P kind of guy since I don't have the time to invest. You may want to try the chatrooms and personal ads in some of the English language rags for some leads.
OAH
Clandestine, OAH will eternally be respected in this forum. His sage advice has made many a man happy here in China.
Ahh the KTV Girls. The best way I have found for meeting and dating them is to first go in and ask the mamasan for the girls that will do sex. Pick out one or two and enjoy the evening. If you enjoyed her enough to think about dating then you start working on creating that or a fuck buddy relationship. You want the girl that doesn't look at you as a cash machine so you have to be careful at this point. At the end of your time with her on the first trip let her know you like her, ask what she thinks about you. Keep in mind these girls want regular customers so don't be surprised if she says everything you want her to say. This starts the process. Next ask her if she will meet for lunch. If she says yes then you might have a keeper. At lunch chat with her about her situation her family, why she works as a ktv girl. Don't ask the last question to early, you have to get her feeling like she is comfortable with you first. Then make certain when you bring it up that you don't make it sound like it is bad in some way. You need to say it more in the lines of curiosity. This should give you insight into her psych. What she thinks about customers, can she make the break and respect your relationship later. At the end of the date let her know you like her and hope you two can become friends, maybe more. See how she reacts, but watch her eyes and body language closely. She will say one thing with her mouth but another with her body. Don't make arrangements for another date here. Get her phone number if you don't already have it and tell her you will call her in a couple of days.
Now here comes a choice. You can either call her to see if she will go out on another date. Or choose to walk into the KTV. If you go to the KTV go in early so you can pick any girl. Don't ask to see a lineup ask for your girl. Chat with the Mamasan letting her know you really like the girl, don't get to specific but make yourself seem like a good guy that likes your girl. Don't ask for take out that night, but have her change into street clothes (this puts her off balance it is harder for her to keep her barriers up.) Spend the evening with your girl see how she acts. She might go home with you for free. Don't ask for it this time though. Just see what happens, enjoy the night but don't seem overly eager.
Call her up a few days later and repeat. Don't spend too much money or time until your certain about her intentions. If she doesn't start going out with you after work with out charging she has no intentions of it. After the second or third time at the KTV you should ask her to come over if she hasn't volunteered. If the answer is no, you have to judge the situation for yourself, but she probably is only after money. After she goes home with you a few times after chatting in the KTV see if she will start coming over without going in. If not then you probably have nothing.
Even after you are really dating her you have to go in and spend the day at the KTV every now and then. It is how she makes her money, and the Mamasan will be pushing her to work so you need to keep a good relationship with mamasan and show her you care about the girl.
The conflicting relations can be overcome but as the saying goes: You can take the girl out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the girl. Also once a ho always a ho. Another note is that because you抮e black you might have to spend more time and money in the KTV getting her to a point she trusts you. Although you might luck into one of the girls that are curious about black men, it is just not very likely from what I have heard from Chinese girls.
Also you need to consider that only a small number of the girls can ever make the break and live a happy normal life. This kind of work takes away the innocence and the illusion that we men are somehow better than this. She knows you抮e a monger so in her mind she might never be able to completely trust you. Also just as we enjoy new girls all the time, some of these girls enjoy the excitement of what is the new guy going to be. So for some of them they might never be able to maintain a faithful relationship with you. If that is important to you, but considering you抮e here you probably will never be faithful either and thus be ok with this arrangement. Also after she gets to America the enticement of easy money working the business could pull her back into it.
===
On another topic I don't understand this myth that Chinese girls don't like sex. Maybe I am just lucky but I have found lots of them that do, or fake it so well that I never know they don't.
Vander,
The best way is to tell the mamasan before she brings the girls. Tell her you are most likely going to want to take the girl back with you. Then she'll only bring girls who do. Depending on the place though, it might be that all of them go out. Also, you can be brutally honest with the mamasan about what kind of girl you want. Don't be shy. If you like big tits, tell her. If you like tall girls, tell her. She's heard it all before and nothing's gonna surprise her.
Travel Dog
10-04-04, 20:02
Vander
Moody's advise is right on. Ask, or have someone ask, the mamasan.
Moody,
Thanks a lot for your help I can see things clearer now.
As I have been to KTV in Hangzhou but it was my first visit to china about 3 months ego. went there with a freind (paradise ktv at world tr. center hotel) but I could not figure out what was going on there as there were 20 girls at least with 2 difrent kind of dresses (like uniforms) difrent for inside the bar and diffrent out, and 10 customers. The girls in the bar playing a dice game witch I hardly understud because of their non english.
No proposition was made by me and my freind because we could not be sure what was going on as there was realy no eye contact from them(they seemed very shy) so we drunk our beer listened to some lousy music and some nice saxophone by one guy and left. So what do you think was the deal there. (if you can speculate) No aparent Mamasan and not realy any customers to see what they were doing.
Thanks again
PS. I am going there next month.
Member #1701
10-05-04, 04:59
Clandestine,
There will never be a clear cut answer to your questions, even to the most seasoned China hands. Each girl is different be it in terms of upbringing, family background or reasons they are where they are KTV, MP or back alleys.
The first thing you must understand is the cultural difference. I have a Sri Lankan engineer who is of Indian origin but speaks great Mandarin. He walks out into the streets and gets odd stares from everyone. I'm guessing that you would be experiencing that in Chaozhou as well. Most Chinese (especially the ones in the smaller cities) are not used to Afri-Americs and the tendency is to shy away. So that's a mountain to climb already in your case.
You don't speak Mandarin - that's something you will have to work on to get you into bed (if you don't wanna pay)
You said : 'I am not interested in smothering the girl. Nor in investing that much time.'
How else are you gonna get her to be interested in you? Give her money and she will take you for an ATM. Chinese women are not difficult - but as with most women, it takes time and patience.
You asked : 'I don't know if this is a test to see if I will buy her something. Or if this is what she thinks is the first step toward my eventually seeing her vagina.'
Commercialism has unfortunately reared its ugly head in China for the past 10 odd years - if a girl feels you are interested in her, she will not be shy to ask you to go out shopping - be prepared to buy her a TV , DVD Player etc - it's not going to be cheap.
So you'll have to decide if it is worth it.
You would prolly do best to go to a Bath-house or MP, relax and blow your load - take your time if you want to look for a spouse cos even if they accept you, they gotta also convince their families that you are the best guy around for them.
OldAsiaHand
10-05-04, 08:40
Vander,
A further bit of advise if you are a western monger. Some KTV girls are discriminatory. Be sure to clarify this point with the mamasan, as well.
OAH
OldAsiaHand
10-05-04, 08:49
Zorro32,
I apologize if I misled you into thinking I am the expert on the Shantou area. I have only been there a couple of times myself.
My experience is only P4P with a couple of girls from the hotel KTV place. I managed to find one FS BBS and I was going to do one girl there, but when we entered the room the rats and cockroaches were scurrying off the bed. Needless to say, I took a pass on the room and the girl.
Sorry I cannot be of more help.
OAH
Tinybobo1002
10-06-04, 03:04
Are we talking about the same ktvs in China? Particularly, the comment from Wicked SH. No insult, Wicked SH, whatsoever, but your report/message is beyond imagination.
I have been in China long enough and have got drunk in ktv numerous times, so I am qualified to put in my 2 cents.
Ktv gals are no different from BBS: their ultimate goal is to make enough cash to send home to support their families and to build a big house.
There are two types of ktv girls, though. A small group of them is called princess or dj. They put on ktv songs/music, sing and dance, chat and play dice games with customers. You can't fondle her for the first time, but later on, no problem. She got paid by tips, usually at 100 to 200 rmb per night, depending on the 1-3-5 or 2-6-8 scale. They have an option whether to sleep with customer. If they don't, they pay about 50% of their income to mamasan. If they do, they pay the same like most girls in ktv.
The second big group, 99%, will sit, dance, sing and will allow customer and customers to fondle them right on the spot. For the sitting fee, they charge either 100 or 200 rmb, depending on the scale. The interesting part is they have to pay 100% to 150% of the sitting fee to the mamasan. No kidding, cuz there is an assumption they must sleep with the customer or customers. Their only goal is to get laid; ST is no good and ON preferable. Just ask yourself this question: will they allow you as a stranger to fondle them and they get nothing or have to pay for the sitting fee? No way.
Ktv girls needs an admission fee of 5000 to 10000 rmb to work there. Again, this is true. Lots of young, good looking girls with fresh and tight pussy will work for BBS first making70 rmb per customer to save enough for this admission fee.
Dating a ktv girl with the goal of finding a freebie is by no means possible. Ocassionally, I get a free fuck, after becoming a regular customer. That's not free. You can call it "buy one, get one free" or "buy four, get one free".
Ktv girls are not free. They are like BBS girls - pros to earn an income to send home. Of course, there are exceptional scenarios. You win the lottery, but the chance of winning it always remains remote. Don't take it for granted.
I like both ktv and bbs. They meet different needs of mine; ktv is entertainment and sex and bbs is pure sex.
If you really have successful strategies to get freebies from ktv, please share. I don't want to pay next time.
For freebies, I still insist chat room is the best.
tatyu, wicked sh, and travel dog,
your recent postings based on diverse experiences and opinion about working girls at ktv have been very insightful and quite interesting.
as a disclaimer, i抦 new to china in general. what i report here is based "what happened to me" and no other reference point. therefore my posting takes a form of travel report, rather than reporting of aggregates of experiences and respective analysis. i also have a bad habit of writing long drawn report, so my apology in advance.
in summary, i think your assessment and insight about ktv girls are largely accurate. i think i have somewhat interesting experience with a ktv girl. so here it goes.
i have never been in ktv entire my life until my first visit to shanghai about two months ago. our china regional manager (rm) took us (from the states) to one of his favorite ktv抯 in shanghai. he seems to know all 揼ood spots in shanghai. it must be job related. in any case, i抳e been in ktv for three times to date. all ktv experiences were while i was in shanghai for last two months or so.
this ktv where we had good time was somewhat unique (at least to my untrained eyes). unlike most of ktv抯 in shanghai, this ktv is totally low key looking from outside. even if you know the address, you would not be able to find it due to non-existing visible sign of the place. entrance is located in a small side alley, along which was way to a local hotel.
however, once we stepped out of the elevator at 5th floor, we were pleasantly surprised by a few things young, well groomed, great shape, good looking girls who are in uniform like long cocktail party dress either black or gold. other support staffs are also in uniform red or black very fashion cognizant and good looking as well. there are only ten or so rooms (which i learned later) but each room appeared generous in space and very well furnished with latest top notch av equipments, quality furniture with modern touch of decoration.
our rm apparently had booked a room with a mamasan (she was one of most elegant and great looking and sweet young lady in asia/pacific region, may be late 20抯). she brought in a couple of lineup of her girls and i picked a girl from the second lineup. she was reasonably good looking, great body shape (my style) and glowing silky skin. she also seemed somewhat shy which was also my type as i do not like motor mouth. so we had good time throughout the evening and left without attempt of further venture as our rm told us that these girls normally would not go out with first encountered guests. great entertainment nice and posh place, top notch girls with personable attitudes, good company and great drinks. could not ask for more.
while we were wrapping up the evening, our rm said that he could arrange a dinner next day with the girls in the room along with their mamasan. so i said that we would see how tomorrow progress but i told him to keep them standby.
on next day, i decided to have dinner with the girls from the day before along with mamasan. we had great dinner and per subtle suggestion by the mamasan, we agreed to go back to her ktv. we needed relaxing moments from brain-boiling business matter during the day. all girls in street cloths directly came to the room with us. we were having another great evening at the ktv. with great assistance from mamasan, my girl (same one from previous evening) very reluctantly agreed to go out after ktv fun. while we were having fun, i learned that she works at ktv in addition to her day job. we exchanged business cards and i was very surprised by what抯 on her business card. she works for a major us corporation. all these were validated and confirmed by my rm. she then throughout the evening was subtly trying to bail out the agreement for private session after ktv. i sensed and granted her wish. i did not want to make forced deed which would not be any fun any way. she was very happy about it. we had good time and left the ktv with promise of 搃抣l be back.
upon return to the states, i asked my rm to contact her that i would be back to shanghai for follow-up trip and would like to see her outside of the ktv. she apparently laughed at him and me that why in the world a guy who spent just two evenings at ktv with her would want to see her again. she did not see any rationales to the idea. then she told him to convey her message to me that if i was serious about it and sought her upon returning to shanghai, she would take it as her fate and consider my request.
i did a couple of things that convinced her that i was determined to at least try to meet with her in shanghai.
about a month later, i went back to shanghai. my rm had done wonderful job to keep her in tuned and provide me all feedback prior to my second trip to shanghai. i told her that i would send my car to her house so she coould come to the airport for my arrival. (i have a contracted buick regal in shanghai for speedy moves in the shanghai)
she came to the airport as well as my rm. we all went back to the westin shanghai. first surpirse was seeing her at the airport. then real surprise was that she stayed with me for entire my trip (8 days). she did not go to work for five days saturday night through wednesday night), but had to work at the ktv for thursday and friday.
on sunday, we went to her apartment to pick up her cloths and other personal stuff. she lives with two other girl friends one from same hometown and i don抰 know about the 3rd one. i met them all - very nice girls and good looking too. i would say that her apartment would be considering typical apartment for average chinese folks. a small apartment complex has five or six building where each building has five levels.
on wednesday night, she told me that she would not want me to be at the ktv on thursday and friday for two reasons. first, she did not want me to see her working at ktv and secondly, she did not want me to spend too much money at the ktv.
here is the cost breakdown of the ktv bills.
1600 rmb for minimum which applies towards drinks.
400 rmb for each girl for each quest
100 rmb for each waiter and waitress
so i and my rm had other venture on thursday evening. however, on friday morning, she reluctantly agreed with me that we should spend friday evening together regardless of the place. so i got her "approval" for spending friday evening with her at the ktv.
like my first visit to shanghai, i asked my rm to set up a dinner with the girls from ktv along with the mamasan before going back to the ktv. i also invited a local to the dinner and ktv entertainment with whom i have become a friend. he also follows this board. suprisingly and graciously he picked up the dinner tab despites my protest. i told him that i invited him and he said i was his guest in shanghai. friendly dispute! having delicious food with beautiful ladies and good friends has just about same satisfaction index of walking the pebble beach with a caddie on a beautiful day.
my girl and i left the ktv at around 11:00 p.m. leaving my rm and my local buddy behind for their own fun. by then, it had been 7 days with her however there have been absolutely no indication or sign of monetary rewards for her companionship. upon returning to the hotel, among other things, while she was taking shower, i stuffed an envelope with substantial amount of local currency in consideration of compensation for potential loss of her income for being with me. i thought that was only fair. i gave her the envelope as my 揼ift of love to her. so i hope she would not feel awkward of being 揷ompensated. she reluctantly accepted it with 搕hank you. we had great time rest of the evening.
while we were packing next morning, she started exhibiting sadness and upset. on the way out of the room, she picked up all her stuff except the money envelope that was left on a table night before. i called her and told her that she forgot the envelope. she yelled 攏o in english at me while she was walking out of the room. even though she was somewhat quiet, she was still codial and nice as she has been while we were checking out at the executive lounge and having breakfast.
while we were in the car in route to the airport, she remained silent with eyes closed all the way to pudong airport. i called my rm and sought his advice about money envelope incident. he advised that i should not attempt to give it back to her again. so i did not.
we exchanged good-bye at the entrance to the immigration inspection area. while i was in the immigration queue, i got a call from my driver who was waiting for my girl to take her back to her apartment. he said that she did not come out. so i figured that she was mad, sad, and upset and would take a taxi to her home. then, i called her mobile but the phone was turned off as expected.
her behavior
for seven days, she natually acted as if she is my long time girlfriend. she always wanted to make sure that i had healthy breakfast, fed me fruit before going to bed after returning from evening out, put her facial lotion to my face for healthy skin after evening shower, and wrap herself around me at every opportune time.
i offered her to buy her gift (i.e. a watch as she did not have a watch) while we were out throughout the week, she did not want to buy anything except one skin lotion she had to buy one. one evening over the dinner, i gave her my amex card and told her to go and shop after the dinner. she looked at me like i'm crazy and did not even want to touch the card.
now i'm back in the states. i've been in contact with this girl. all indications have been good and consistent to date.
a few questions for all china experts.
would there be possibility to shape her into a girlfriend status in shanghai?
would there be things between lines into which i have to read about her?
or is this simply and pure beginner's luck?
on the way to dinner on sunday, she said that she had to go to the ktv and apply for leaves for three days before the ktv opens for business. so i took her to the ktv and she came back with big smile on her face. does she have to pay the house for taking a few days of leave?
how does the ktv rip off scheme of 'paying fine or to the house'? as i have seen other parts of the world, i assume that most of sex industry are operating in similar spirit - rip off the girl and guests whenever and wherever possible.
your advice and answers would be appreciated. o2g.
Just Brian
10-07-04, 03:27
Hi Off2golf,
I had a good time reading your story and somehow it would seem that all the signs seem positive. I am no china girl expert but I do know that most of these mainland china girls are hard pressed for extra income. Most of these girls come from very poor families in the suburbs whom have migrated to city centres in the hope of making it good. I think that the percentage of her being genuine is good. But then again, there's always an element of risk in dating girls from mainland china. (Can I say the same for Hong Kong girls or be it simply just any chinese girl?) Let's face it, we all do things for certain reasons and 9 out of 10 times it's because of what we hope to expect in return. What girl would want to work in a KTV for the rest of her life, meeting thousands of men, some with body odour, foul smelling mouths and having them grope you all night?
Girls who work in KTVs are in it for the quick good money which in turn gives them financial security. (which is NOT easy to achieve in China with the billions of people there!)
My guess is, she must have sensed some qualities in you that matches her criteria;-
1) Being financially sound
2) Being respectful towards her wishes
3) Acceptable looks
4) Good personality?
She must an educated person if she works for a US corporation. It only proves that she's hardworking and definitely determined to make ends meet. She may have seen that opportunity in you (that's the reality we all tend to avoid accepting). But I'm not saying that she has evil intentions.
Rejecting your monetary gifts and all doesn't seem normal for working girls. That's a good sign too. By giving her money after spending nights with her probably made her feel cheap and disrespected. (I would!)
Give it time. Check out if anyone has tipped her off about your financial background, how much you're worth etc... The signs seem positive to me, but it's always better to lay it safe. I'd advice taking it slowly and getting to know her (and her background) more before taking the plunge by being emotionally involved. If it was meant to be yours, it'll somehow end up yours.
Hope my thoughts will help.
Hi Off2Golf, not to say anything bad about your girl since I never met her and don't know her however I have seen things like this happen before. Mostly to my Taiwan friends. The girl will turn down money and gifts if she thinks that you are single and there is a chance of a future with you. Most of the girls that works in KTV knows that once they take money from you then it is a customer relationship that can rarely go to girlfriend relationship (at least for the Taiwan, Hong Kong guys) therefore if they turn down money and gifts then it would seem that they really like you (which might be the case) but by taking money or gift then all that is out the window.
I believe that she thinks you will come to China often and therefore will see her again. As time goes on you will force money on her since you know that her time is money. This way she will have both you and the money/gifts.
Again, this is not to say she is a bad girl or anything but I have seen smart KTV girls play this game on my Taiwan friends a lot and some of them have even married the guys.
Just take your time if you are really interested in her. In my opinion, next time I would forced the money on her and just say that you care about her. This way if it doesn't work out between you two, you will not have any guilty feeling.
Just so you know I believe that most of the girls that work in the KTV place are very nice girls however some are real gold diggers that can really clean you out by playing on your emotions.
Vander,
A lot of KTVs have a lounge/show area. From your post, I think this is where you were hanging out. KTV's all have private rooms and this is usually what is referred to when talking about KTV. Although all KTVs have private rooms, not all of them have the lounge/show area. KTV is also referred to as Karaoke and signs that have Chinese writing in front of "OK" are the same thing. The two Chinese characters say "Kara." Anyway, the way KTV usually works is as follows:
KTV Primer for the Newbie (what to do and what to expect)
1) You select a room. When you first enter the KTV and request a room (fandian), a hostess or a host will show you a room appropriate to the size of your party. The room will usually have a minimum purchase. Depending on the size of the room, the minimum will vary. If you don't like the room they show you, you can ask for a larger one, but it will have a larger minimum. Some places will have a fixed rate you have to pay for using the room, but this is less common, but if they do have it, drinks will usually be cheaper.
2) A mamasan will enter and ask if you would like girls. I usually answer "yes" to this one, but you can say "no." At this point, it would be appropriate to tell the mommy what type of girls you prefer. If you're thinking about taking the girl out with you, make sure you make this intention known to the mommy.
3) Around this time, a DJ girl will also enter. It's sometimes possible that she will be arrive before the mommy. Her duties are usually to put songs into the machine, pour drinks, clean the tables, etc., etc. If you don't like a particular DJ, you can request that she be changed. Some of the classier joints will have seperate girls to pour drinks. These girls basically just sit in front of the table and refill your drinks all night. At some places, the DJ's are also available as hostesses, but at some places they're not. DJ tip is the same as the hostesses. If they have drink pouring girls, 50-100 is enough for them as the waiter who brings stuff into the room.
4) Girls will start coming into the room in groups of 3-10. If you like any of them, tell the mommy. If you don't like any of them, tell the mommy and she will send in the next batch. If you can't find one you like, eventually, the first mommy will run out of girls and another mommy will come in with her girls. Don't let the mommy pressure you into picking someone you don't like. You can repeat this all night if you want. You are also not limited to one girl. You can have as many as you want. Be forewarned though, you will have to tip them all. The typical sitting fee in Hangzhou should be 200, but it could be less or more depending on the establishment. Ask the mommy if you don't know.
5) The next part could happen after you select the girls, or before, it depends on the place. You order drinks. All KTVs will have beer, wine, whiskey, and cognac. Some of the larger establishments will also have vodka, gin, and other spirits. KTV will usually have a deal where if you buy a certain number of bottles, they will give you one free. For example, at the Jia Hua in Dongguan a couple of weeks ago, it was buy two bottles of Chivas and get one free. You can also order other things like fruit and food.
6) Party on!!! For the next 3-6 hours until closing time, you have a party. You can sing, dance, talk, play drinking games, whatever. You can probably get away with fondling the girls in the room. Some will kiss you, some will touch your dick. The limits to that are really set by the individual girls. Some girls don't care what you do and initiate things, others will put up a fight if you try to touch a boobie and give you an ugly look. If you think your girl's no fun, tell the mommy and change the girl. Sometime during the night, the girls will probably want to change into street clothes. It's up to you whether you let them or not. I like to see them in street clothes because you get a better idea of what they look like, but that's not everyone's preference.
7) When the evening draws to a close, it's time to settle the bill. The bill will have everything you consumed during the evening including booze, non-alcoholic beverages, and food. Typical bill for 4 people is around 1000-1500, with 4 bottles of wine and fruit, in and around Shenzhen and Dongguan at the better places. THIS FIGURE DOES NOT INCLUDE TIPS. Once you pay the tab, it's time to tip the girls. You only tip the ones you are not going to take back with you. You tip the DJ girl, you tip the waiter. At some places, you tip the mommy and one of the girls will tell you to if that's the case. The usual tip is 200, but ask the girl in case it's less or more. At the places you tip the mommy, the girl basically keeps her entire tip. At places you don't tip the mommy, the girl kicks back a certain percentage, usually 20-30%, to the mommy. If you do not consume all the alcohol you ordered, they will usually hold it for you for your next visit. The typical time period is 3 months, but some places may hold it longer. You fill out a card with your name and they put your bottle(s) in storage.
8) If you are taking the girl back with you, negotiate with her or the mommy for what you want, whether ST or LT. Have your own condoms since the girls will never have them. That's not because they don't want you to use them, that's because cops here think that only prostitutes carry condoms. You never give the girl the money first. You give it to her when she's ready to leave.
IMPORTANT:
NEVER EVER GO ALONE TO A KTV YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THAT IS NOT IN A LARGE HOTEL. I cannot stress this enough. If you are in a KTV for the first time, make sure it is in at least a 3-4 star hotel. Never go to a small stand alone KTV alone without someone who has been to the place before. KTV ripoffs of foreigners are not uncommon. I've never been ripped off or scammed at KTV and the reason is that I stick to this policy.
ADDENDUM: Sometime during the evening, a girl will come in with stuffed animals and/or flowers and/or an instant camera. Basically, they're asking you to buy the stuffed toy or flowers for your girl. It's up to you whether you want to buy the thing, but I'll tell you what it is. When you buy it, the girl doesn't really keep it. Come one, don't tell me you really thought the girls kept a collection of these things from their male admirers? At the end of the night, or later, she'll give it back to the girl who sold it to you. They'll split the money you paid for the toy. Knowing this, if you really want the girl to get a little extra money, give her a larger tip at the end of the evening. BTW, they'll make fun of you with the other girls if you do. They'll basically say something like, "that shabi last night gave me 500 yuan when he only had to give me 200." No sense of gratitude. The camera is obviously a different thing. If you want a photo memento of your evening with your friends, go ahead and pay the girl. Haggle first. It's expected.
ADDENDUM II: During the course of the evening, a cigar girl will come in a couple of times. she will be selling overpriced cigars. She might also be selling gum and breath mints. You can haggle with her too. It's expected so don't be embarrassed. My friend's favorite thing to do is to play the dice game for the cigar. If the girl asks for 180RMB for a cigar, he'll offer to play the game with her. If he wins, he'll pay only 100RMB, if he loses, he'll pay the full amount. If you want cigarettes, just tell the girl, she'll have someone call the waiter to bring you a pack.
FINAL ADDENDUM:
My friend was telling me about some place in Hangzhou he went to several months back. He told me he got really pissed at the end of the night because they added a bunch of "lady drinks" to the bill. There were over 20 of them and added over 2000 to the bill. He'd never seen it before and he wasn't happy about it. If you ask me, this is a borderline scam. If a girl asks you if she can order a drink, tell her flat out "NO!"
Well, I hope with all that, you guys are sufficiently knowledgeable about KTV so you won't be intimidated or ripped off. KTV can be a thoroughly enjoyable experience, even if you don't have sex with the girl. It's basically a night out with the guys where you can just hang out in the company of pretty women.
Moody,
That's great KTV crash course for the newbie like me. What you have described step by step was exactly what I went through step by step while I was in Shanghai. That was great articluation!
I do now remember that we tipped the mommy 400 RMB which was the amount we tipped each girl.
Your comment about codoms were not only insightful but but also very interesting rationales by locals
Average bill for a night of fun for four people was described in range of 1,000 to 1,500. Is that US$ or misquoted RMB?
My visits to a KTV in Shanghai (only three times) were in range of 6000 to 70000 RMB for three people. It typically covers two bottles of Scotches, fruits, finger food, tips for three girls, mommy, waiter and waitress. When we ordered second bottle, the KTV offered the third one as free. So my China regional manager put his name on these free bottles for his consumption in future.
Many thanks for the information. Now I feel like KTV expert!
O2G
o2g,
i have a girlfriend who used to work at ktv, and i've been to ktv hundred of times and i've seen all the scams. i've seen many people with broken hearts, on both ends, and it's not a pretty sight.
that said, it can work out. it's just a matter of how much you trust the girl and what she's looking for in the relationship.
anyway, here are a couple of answers.
her rejecting your amex is not a big surprise. you can't just use an amex card just anywhere and the places that let you use it usually require you show a passport.
as for her applying to leave the ktv for 3 days, that's expected. the girls are given a certain number of days off every month, but if they exceed it, they get fined. it sounds like you were at a pretty good place, so the fine is probably around 50-100 per day.
you should have forced the money on her. it's obvious she doesn't want the relationship to be a money thing, so she refused it. later on, she's going to regret it and her friends are gonna call her an idiot for not taking it and she'll lose face among her peers. you should have repeatedly told her that the money was for english classes or something so she won't lose face. give her the money next time, it'll make you feel better about the whole thing. i don't know how much you gave her, but i'm sure it's worth less to you than it is to her.
O2G,
Everything is in RMB. Shanghai is more expensive. I've been to Shanghai KTV about a dozen times and it sounds like you went to one of the high-end ones. At those places, 6000-7000 sounds about right. BTW, Shanghai has lots of KTV with Chosunjok. Those are fun too.
For comparison, two weeks ago I went to Jia Hua Hotel KTV, a 5 star hotel in Dongguan. I ordered 2 bottles of Chivas and another came free. There was also a bunch of fruit and foods and non-alcoholic beverages. The total bill came to about 1800RMB. We tipped 3 girls 200RMB each, and the DJ 200RMB. We didn't tip the mamasan because they don't do that there. I don't remember tipping the waiter either so I guess they don't do that either.
Vander,
One last thing all KTV goers should know, the dice game. This is how you play the most common version with 5 dice per person.
1) Shake the dice. Make sure your girl is not looking at it and shaking it again. That's cheating. If you catch her doing it, make her drink.
2) Take a look at what you have. Aces are wild and can be anything.
3) Somebody will call first (usually the loser of the previous game).
4) The call is a prediction on the total count of that particular number amongst all the players. Let's say there are two players. Let's say the first person calls something like three 5's. That person is saying that there are at least three 5's among the 10 dice, including jokers, between the two persons. Got that?
5) The second person has the option of either declaring the first person's call wrong, by opening his cup, or continuing the game by upping one of the numbers. Continuing with the previous example; the second person can call either three 6's (raising the number) or 4 of anything (raising the count). The game goes back and forth with the two people calling their predictions until one opens his cup. If someone calls any count of 6's, then the next person has to raise the count (this should be obvious since there's nothing higher than 6).
6) The game ends when someone opens. If the call is made, then the person who opened the cup drinks. If the call is not made, the person who made the wrong call drinks.
7) There are usually a couple of house rules. The first is if you have a 5 of a kind. If you have a 5 of a kind including aces, then it counts as six. Let's say you have the following: Ace, Ace, Ace, Six, Six. Your hand can potentially be three 2's, three 3's. three 4's, three 5's, or six 6's. If you have a natural 5 of a kind, it usually counts as seven. Another is if you don't have any pairs. If all your dice are different, than you're allowed to reshake. If you end up with stacked dice, you're supposed to reshake.
8) If the first person starts off by counting aces, as in two 1's, then aces are NOT wild. Aces are also high as in higher than 6. If someone calls three 6's, you can call three 1's.
The game is a lot easier than I make is sound. If you play it a couple of times, you'll catch on real fast.
Moody,
Many thanks again for your insight and knowledge on internals of KTV industry - monthly leave allowance. I will keep your and other fellows advice (giving her money) which makes good sense under consideration.
I did not realize there would be such substantial difference in cost of entertainment at KTV in Shenzhen or Guangdong vs. Shanghai. But what it is is what it is. Most important matter is I had great time with a couple of friends. I guess that my local manager took us to the "best place" in Shanghai he knows. That might be one way to show respect to and pamper the guests from the corproate office.
I could not figure out the dice games that these girls and local guys played. Thanks for the information and hope I will have opportunity to play it along with you in one of your favorite KTV as I'm currently planning my next trip (Mid Nov or early Dec.) to Shanghai via Shenzhen.
Even if it is too early to tell, if all signs and indications are good, consistent and positive for next couple of times of 'living' with her, I may consider to induct her to be my concubine in Shanghai. I think that would be the best case scenario. We'll see and I'll keep you and others on this board posted. O2G
O2G,
If you want to keep the girl as your girlfriend, one thing you will have to consider, and it's an important consideration, is whether you want her to continue at her KTV job.
If neither of you (both you and the girl) have a problem with her working at the KTV, then everything's fine. But if either one of you wants her to quit, then you're going to have to come to an arrangement of some sort.
The main problem is going to be money. She obviously works at KTV because she either needs or wants the money. If she quits for you, she's going to want you to replace her loss in income. Her loss in income could be quite substantial. KTV girls at high end places in Shanghai typically make close to 15,000 per month. They might make as much as 30,000 in a good month. Some of it depends on the clientele. If they get a lot of Japanese guests, then they might make substantially more. It's not uncommon for Japanese guys to tip 1000-5000 to the girl just for sitting with them for a few hours. I have no idea what your income is like, but you have to take this into consideration, especially if you're thinking of any kind of long-term relationship. If giving her, say 10,000 a month, is a hardship for you, then it's most likely going to be very difficult for things to work out.
I have a friend who has a girlfriend. She works at KTV in Hong Kong. The minimum tip at this place is 2000HKD. She makes an average of 100,000HKD per month, excluding gifts. She has one customer who comes every week and tips her 10,000HKD for sitting with her. Just last month, he gave her a Cartier watch. She keeps asking my friend to give her a monthly stipend of 100,000HKD and she'll quit working. He won't do it saying she's being greedy. He can afford it, but doesn't think anyone needs that kind of money in China, especially since she lives with him while he's here and he pays for everything, when he is here. She tells him that she will only be able to work at KTV for another few years before she starts looking older and will make considerably less money then. She has to make her money now. She has a point.
In a related matter it's very easy for these girls to develop a very negative attitude towards men. Think about it, every day, they see men coming into these places to basically cheat on their wives or their girlfriends. If a girl has worked at KTV for any serious length of time, it's going to be very difficult for her to change this attitude. Furthermore, she will most likely also be very jealous because she's got it into her head that all men are on the constant lookout for new women.
Basically, I just want to say that everything would be great if money wasn't an issue, but the truth of the matter is, once these girls start working, they get used to the money. Once they get used to the money, it's hard for them to give it up because they get used to a particular lifestyle. Nice apartment, new cell phone, nice clothes, whatever. If I were them, I wouldn't want to give it up either. How much of that lifestyle she's willing to give up is basically dependant on how much money you have and how much she likes you. If you don't have a lot and she likes you a lot, she may be willing to change her lifestyle. If it's the other way around, don't bet on it.
OldAsiaHand
10-09-04, 03:28
O2G,
Interesting story. I am very skeptical of KTV girls. Having said that, if you have not done so already, I might ask your RM to do some further investigation on a no names basis at her day job, the KTV, the apartment, just to see if it all gels.
My skepticism tells me that she just sees you as a big whale. She took a big risk not taking the money though. How much was it? She may be holding out for a bigger hit. What is your marital status? Were you honest with her about it? She may think she has a chance to get half of what you have which is certainly more than was in the envelope.
IMHO, almost no Chinese girls, especially KTV girls, will want to be your "Shanghai G/F" without some material benefit if they know there is no chance of a long term comittment. I have seen several cases where KTV girls became very vengeful when friends tried to break up. It ended up costing them much more to keep their family at home in the dark about it.
I hope for your sake I am proven wrong this time.
Just my POV.
OAH
MOODY
1 WORD: WOW
I was blind and now I can see.
Thanks a lot .
Have you evergone to Hanghzou ? Because I hear that things are very slow there . Do all KTVs in China have rooms in addition to lobby?
Do you know of any other places in hangzhou that may intrest me?
For O2G,
I have to say that if he has something to loose maybe beter protect this (family) and not take any chances.
Even when the chance is slim we protect what we have and move on.
Thanks again
Member #2085
10-09-04, 10:59
Dear Off2Golf,
I don't consider myself a China expert, but I dare to give my opinion.
I agree with Just Brian: If this Shanghai girl really works for a major US Corporation, even as a secretary, she must be educated, and she thus somehow belongs to the upper class of society.
It turns out this upper class is very sensitive about foreigners' opinion of Chinese morality. While they often have a sense of moral superiority (Dao De You Yue Gan), they like to consider themselves as not inferior to foreigners, which is of course absolutely true. Educated Chinese people often go great lenghts in defending the PRC when a foreigner criticize it. I have been involved in quite a number of arguments of this kind. When young, they attend a morality class called "Si Xiang Pin De Ke" during which they learn never to criticize the RPC in front of foreigners.
Maybe offering money to this girl was interpreted as disrespectful. I once lost a freebie because of a similar gesture. After a few succesful and enjoyable meetings, the girl had lost interest in sex and didn't want to do it with me anymore. I offered her money and she was mad. I never saw her again.
Member #2085
10-09-04, 11:14
The posts on KTV girls are very instructive. However, I am still afraid of walking into a KTV. I have had bad experiences in Hualian and Taibei (Taiwan) a few years ago. I really want to give it another try now that I am in Beijing. I consider myself experienced with hotel pros and BBS, but I lack confidence with KTVs.
First, I have to monger alone, and I don't want to end up alone in a KTV. Is it possible to have private salons at reasonable rates?
Second, I am afraid I won't recognize the so-called Mamasan. I speak very good Chinese, but I can hardly understand what the "san" means in mamasan. How do you say that in Chinese? Is it"Lao Ban Niang"? I am afraid if I ask to see the "Lao Ban Niang" I will be introduced to the owner or the manager instead of the so-called mamasan. Then I will look like an unexperienced easy prey (which I am but don't want to look like).
Third, are all KTVs so expensive? There are a few venues in Haidian where I live, they seem pretty run down compared to the very-modern Tong Yi Shou Ge in XI Zhi Men District, but I want to try my hand there. I have often had the chance to se the girls who work there (smoking cigarettes outside) and they look fine.
I am sorry to bother experienced KTV-patrons with such foolish questions.
Tinybobo1002
10-09-04, 15:27
Sorry, I am late in the discussion, after posting my cost analysis of KTV girls. It seems most of the old timers have a common theme in their reports, that is money is the key issue. O2G and others, are you/we looking for a girlfriend where money is the core? What is the relationship then: money or romance?
I believe most of us in the discussion are businessmen or professionals working in China. I also believe everyone of us is smart in people skills. However, once we are in a relationship with young, attractive Chinese dolls, we lose our judgement, as if we were a group of naive teens.
The biggest barrier working in China is not language or culture, it is our psychological feeling of loneliness. I have so many sleepless nights in a hotel room after fucking a BBS or KTV girl to unload myself. There are many occasions I just want to chat and no sex please.
May I ask a question? Why do we want a KTV girl to become our girlfriend? Is it physiological or psychological? I am afraid those KTV girls are not able to meet our psychological needs.
Tinybobo1002
10-09-04, 22:44
#2085, excellent insight in mental process of Chinese upper class. That helps alot both in our career and mongering. To answer your question 1, you can sit in the lobby to watch the show. There is no minimum. You pay for food and fruit and alcohol, plus tips to the girl. There is no room charge. I always sit in the lobby when I go alone.
Mamasan (or papasan when referring to a male) originally is from Japan, cuz ktv is from Japan. Mama means an older lady; san is a way of greeting based on social class. Over time, it loses its original meaning and now refers to female captains of the girls. In Japan, if your last name is Smith, they can call you Smithsan.
How expensive is KTV? Very, compared to the local standard of living. That is why I like SW and BBS for sexual gratification. A small room charge is from 500 rmb to 1200 rmb. Beer is about 10 to 20. Chinese tend to drink a lot in dice game. 100 to 200 rmb tips to the girl as sitting fee. Every time, I go alone, I will spend about 500 rmb, without bringing a girl out.
I think somebody, probably Moody, mentioned Japanese pay 1000 rmb as tips for sitting only and foreigner also pay a good amount. Again, the old classic debate of price resurfaces. When I was in high school years ago, my dick would always become hardened in the subway for no reasons, my high school teacher told me price is cost plus profit. Some time later, when I started mongering in order to soften my hardened dick, every economics professors said price is a result of supply and demand. Nowadays, I have to visit my pharmacist first for viagara before seeing any KTV girls, top academic scholars say price is a result of an individual's ability to access information. I guess that's why I need one more step: see my pharmacist, read this forum, before hitting the girl walking on the street.
Anyway, I believe how much we pay is a reflection of how much we know. Thanks WSG Forum.
Vander:
ALL KTVs have private rooms. If they don't, they're called bars or discos. I've never been to Hangzhou, but my friend goes there all the time. I'll ask him where he goes when I get a chance.
2085,
The mamasan will usually be an older lady, but not always. She will also NOT be wearing a cocktail dress like the other girls. She will occasionally have a 2 way radio. Don't worry too much about recognizing her. As soon as you enter the room and request "liangnu," she will come into the room and introduce herself. There is a distinct possibility that she's the first person to enter the room after you. Occasionally, a man will perform the function and as Tatyu noted, he's called the papasan, or poppy for short.
As for cost, KTV is pretty expensive compared to other forms of entertainment. It's also a lot of fun, especially if you go in large groups.
Member #2085, KTV in Asia generally are expensive because mostly business people go there. You will not find the locals going there all the time therefore they can charge a lot.
The mamason is usually called mamee, normally she had worked as a KTV girl when she was young but now moved up. Each mamee has her own girls.
The KTV charges a flat rate for the room, generally the larger the room, the more it costs.
I would not go to a KTV by myself, in fact I normally do not go unless there are at least 4 people otherwise I don't think it is as much fun.
The KTV girls are not necessary prettier than the BBS girls however they are more classy. They can carry on a good conversion. They know how to drink and flirt. A lot of the girls that I see on the side for about $300RMB works in KTV at night but will come to my room during the day.
Don't get fooled by the fancy dresses and cheap makeup of these ktv girls. The captain says a hole is a hole is a hole.
If all you want is a lay, skip the KTVs. If you're mongering alone, skip the KTVs. If you want a cheap lay, skip the KTVs.
And to all you people that think about keeping a KTV girl as your gf? Are you serious?
The Captain
Member #2085:
I am going to just answer a very small part of your question.
Others have told you where the word "mamasan" comes from. It was popular in HK in the 70's. This term is not popular in Mainland China.
In China, the term actually is "Mommy" pronounced "Mar Me". The grils in Macau and China generally refer to their "keeper', "female manager" etc as the above.
Males are more often just manager or "King Lee" in Cantonese or "Jing Li" in Mandarin. Managers are more often those in an establishment such as KTVC and not for SW or BBS. "Daddy" occasionally may be the male version of the "Mar Me" described above.
Female manager can be distiquished as "Nui Jing Li". Use "Mar Me" as the term to address the KTV managers without any disrepect.
Price in KTV goes like this: the cost of the room (with or without beer and snacks), each girl's sitting fee ($100+), "Mommy's introduction fee", occasionally "bar fine" depending on the KTV which may charge girl's fee by hourly rate, "girl's drinks" which may be exponentially expensive compared to your beer.
I do agree with you about going alone to a KTV. You must know the set up after going at least once with regulars. The bill has been known to be astronomical even for "Hong Kong Chinese" who went by recommendations from tour guides or concierge etc. Beware.
Hope that helps.
To all fellows,
Many thanks for perceptive and intuitive advices and thoughts on my trip report interesting encounter with a KTV girl in Shanghai.
While reading through the posting on this topic, I was quite impressed by all comments, suggestions, guidance and delicate warnings which apparently are based on diverse experience, local knowledge, and social and psychological aspects of the life on the road. Thanks again.
While the encounter with her was rather interesting and (frankly) refreshing, my gut feeling has guided me all along that this won抰 be working out for long-term relationship despites initial indications were all good and positive. My gut feeling was rephrased by the rhetorical comment/question from Tatyu why do we need a KTV girl as our girlfriend?
Refreshing and immense feeling of fun were still largely based on attraction on physical layer. She was beautiful, squeaky clean, frugal and practical on money spending based on observation on her fashion, accessories and the likes, and straightforward in expressing herself.
Even though I still would see her and desire to sustain this yet to be proven relationship with her on my future trips to Shanghai, there is no affirmative indication in my mind that I will transcend this relationship into firmer and longer one which requires, in my book, much more complicate relationship building processes.
The processes need sound communications between two people. Relationship is much more than simple skin-deep beauty and wonderful sex. We all know this, right? I speak virtually no Mandarin while she speaks little English. First major barrier is verbal communication (lack of) and second barrier is frequency of being together. How I communicate with her? I use a third party interpreter (usually my RM).
Except straight P4P transactions, I usually treat all women equally with respect and utmost care including those in entertainment business in Asia, Europe and Latin America. That抯 me and often for that a circle of friends of mine mocked me. That抯 OK.
I have been seeing a girl in Sao Paulo, Brazil for more than two years. I met her at Caf Photo, which is one of legendary high-end nightclubs in Sao Paulo. She worked there part-time on Friday抯 and Saturday抯 for her monthly car payment. We had commercial transaction one night, she retired from the night job as she did not like it shortly after that, I stayed in contact with her, and she became my freebie girlfriend since then more than two years. No money exchanged since the first encounter and her vacation schedules have been aligned with my Sao Paulo visits. One point of this wonderful and simple relationship, I was very curious about what she had seen in me and so asked. Answer was the way I was treating her, which was no comparison to that of Brazilian men - a case to the point for the way to care my women.
I recently received a birthday card from her again this year. It arrived two days late but I felt remarkable that she knows exactly where she stands in my life but enjoys what she has with me and is perfectly OK with it. This is one of a few reasons why I love Brazilian women.
Back to Shanghai.
This girl apparently told my local staff (I called him RM in my posting) that she was very impressed by how I had been treating her. It was apparently much different than that from her regular guests in the KTV (probably cash transaction triggered as well) and she liked it very much. However she thought that development of the relationship would be on bumpy road for working it out for many reasons. One of the reasons was quite interesting. She did not think that she would get OK from her father, as I might be too old for her and not a Chinese.
This would narrows down the possibility of relationship in best case to a local girlfriend relationship only while I抦 in town. I can see two scenarios (1) retire her from KTV and let her focus on day job only and (2) continue what she has been doing.
I spoke with her (and my RM as interpreter) this morning on the way to Saturday morning golf routine at the club. I asked her (more testing of her intent and where her head is) about the option (1) without any qualification. She said that she does not have enough money to retire from the KTV but she would like to eventually retire from it and to live comfortable and normal life. Then, I told her that it would be my obligation (of boyfriend) if I want her to retire from the KTV. On that qualification, silence was on her end. I guess this topic will be articulated on my next trip to Shanghai. We抣l see.
Having conversed the option (1), she said that she would be happy to see me again on my next trip and will see whether she could get away from the KTV but no promise at this time. This was same line, which she came up with, and then she took five days off from the KTV on my last visit.
Even though I am not a rich man in anybody抯 definition of such, I can retire her by compensating her KTV income, let say 10,000 RMB ($1,250US) a month. I抳e been enjoying reasonable career, living comfortable life and have fulfilled core parental obligations. I have recently amended the motto for my life It is just money and I don抰 take it with me when I go.
So I don抰 see a big issue with financial commitment. More important topic to be mutually got on same page is mutual commitment even though it is in a form of local girlfriend arrangement. I picked 10,000 RMB as an illustration point per Moody抯 comment. 10,000 RMB might be a bit less than average monthly earning (15,000RMB may be?) for these girls, but no wear/tear for 26 days out of each month worth for 5,000 RMB, my guess is.
After the call this morning, I asked my RM about his opinion on the money envelop incident on my previous trip. His opinion was that she did not take the money to 揷atch bigger fish.
Hope I can get into her head a bit more on my next visit.
I heartedly agree with Tatyu抯 points on physiological and psychological satisfaction, which we are all seeking from various sources while being on the road all the time. I know that I won抰 be getting intellectual and socio-psychological fulfillment and appreciation from a KTV girl or some of freebies. However, at the end of each workday in Shanghai, Sao Paulo, Prague or Makati City, it is sometimes nice feeling to know that I will come home (hotel or girl抯 residency that is) where familiar face, voice, fragrance and body touch are there for me.
I have not lost control over my emotion or bank to date with these girls and hope won抰 in future. I抣l be back to Shanghai in November and certainly do another trip report on this board.
I抦 very new to China scenes and have interacted with a few fellows in two or three sections in China thread. All of you in this section (China Woman) have been articulate, candid, discerning, and greatly willing to lend me your hand. I immensely appreciate that.
I had a crazy thought it would be splendid to invite all of you to a KTV and have a great time together one evening. I will try with a few of you if not all.
Thanks again. O2G
Off2Golf,
Where is the girl from?
Well, I had my experiences with freebies and KTV-girls, some bad, some really excellent. I do remember you congratulating me once about a story I presented here in the Shanghai forum. I had a long-term freebie relation with a Massage/KTV-girl, which never implemented any obligations.
Still, I did not lose my senses for reality. I do believe your RM is right, and she is probably looking for 'the bigger fish', but, then again, is that really so bad? 'Golden Cage'-girls and 'Sugar Daddys' are pretty common here in China, and, if you will come back to China on a regular base ... why not?!!
Good luck, anyway?
Levitian
P.S.: I do agree, some comments by fellow mongers here were excellent.
O2G:
I received your PM lately(I couldn't open it often), but somehow the PM system is difficult manage...either I can't read the mail, or I can't send from within.
My opinion: it could be a long discussion since China is unique in a way. yet, in short. Your case is possible, especially in China, and, Especially in Shanghai.
Many Shanghainese girls work in karaoke which to them, and to certain extend, their parents, is acceptable. They don't go out with customers, they are not prepared to sell for sex. This is unique to Shanghai scene. Guangdong is the other extreme.
One good example for your reference: I have a girl in Shanghai, I knew her in a karaoke 6 months ago, We SMS here for a month and in one of my trip she came to the airport to greet me.... to make a long story short, we started to go to bed after a few times having dinner together. She doesn't like working in karaoke and asked me if I can give her 2,000RMB a month, then she would quit dingo karaoke and find a day time job. ... Now she's a receptionist in an IT company. And I am giving her 2,000RMB a month. Everytime I go to Shanghai she would expect me to see her. Sometimes I have to lie that I am too busy couldn't go to Shanghai (in fact I go there on weekly basis)!
So, your case, I don't know, you have to feel about it, by gut feel, by intuition, better off or ask opinions from other guys who have met her in person. I trust my girl because she only ask for 2,000RMB a month (she said she need 3,500RMB to survive, which is reasonable). MY advise is, the more money she ask for, the more risky that she's not genuine.
Papadum and Levitian,
My gut feeling is that this may work out as long as the relationship is defined as mutually agreed and committed (like the one you have with your girl in Shanghai), and no more than that.
It is interesting and good to know that operating principles of KTV in each region in China are vary. My RM told me similar account of yours comparing the KTV in Shanghai, Beijing and other cities, and I did not buy his explanation with my preconceived notion of 搕he girls in KTV will go out for money and obligations to mommy抯 and managers and that is their job. However you have confirmed him.
She has been in Shanghai approximately three years. Her KTV stint has been a bit less than one year. She supplies financial support every other month to her family in back home (Jiangxi Province) - primarily father and a younger sister. I do not know the amount.
Two of my acquaintances (my RM and a local Shanghainese friend of mine) have met her. Upon my request, both have expressed similar opinions and thoughts about her - mainly positive as to personal attributes based on interaction with her. They also thought that she had reasonably favorable feeling towards me as a person (not as a lover). Both thought that this may enable me to retire her from KTV if I am willing to finance such.
Even though size of the finance is important, equally or more important topic is where her head is on this 搒ugar daddy opportunity pure money deal or equal partnerships based on each other抯 need (money vs. love in the time of money). Hope I will find it out soon.
I think that it is still a noble idea that I have a person and/or a place where I can call it home away from home at my disposal. If such arrangement cost me a little bit of money, I will be happy to finance it.
Thanks for your encouraging words and advices. O2G
P.s. Papadum, since you are in Shaghai weekly, will you kindly PM me your local contact information so I will seek an opportunity for a dinner or a drink when I抦 in Shanghai? I can PM you my contact number but it is still US based GSM global phone. Please advise.
Night Dragon
10-11-04, 18:45
It is true that in China, K-girls (as KTV girls are known) do not always "go home" with their customers. Most of the time, that is their prerogative and they don't have to go with a customer that they don't like.
However, it is unrealistic to think that some K-girls NEVER go with customers. Consider the economics: a K-girl only makes about 100RMB a night, "entertaining" at the karaoke. By going home with a customer, she can earn about 1,000RMB extra, each time. So, a girl who never goes makes about 2,500RMB a month. A girl who goes, can clear 15-25,000RMB a month.
Now, in a city like Shanghai, a low-level office worker can make 2,500RMB or more a month. So why work in a karaoke (and bear the stigma) for the same pay? KTV work is hard, the hours are long and most of the customers are jerks. Consider the pressure on the girls, too. Can a girl be content with 2,500RMB a month if her "colleagues" make 10 times as much?
In truth, most K-girls view it as a short-time way to make and save as much money as possible before they quit and do something "respectable" like open a small business. Often that means sleeping with as many men as possible while they are doing this line of work.
So, if a guy thinks that a certain K-girl only sleeps with him and with no one else (because she told him so), he should wake up. Keep in mind that these girls' job is to deal with and please men. They deal with different men every night and have seen it all. They are masters at mind games so do not play these games with them.
So, if you go to KTVs, have fun but do not take it seriously, you'll end up regretting it.
I'm saying all this based on my personal experience with many of these girls and having gotten friendly with some of them who told me their life stories and aspirations. They are all strikingly similar.
I'm not passing judgement on the girls or their morality. In fact, I sympathize with them. They are just doing what they can to make it in the new China.
Papadum,
You girlfriend sounds a lot like mine. I don't really give my girlfriend much money. I think I might have given her about 25000 yuan this year, but I don't really remember because I don't give her a regular stipend. She didn't work at KTV for very long so she didn't really get used to the money. She worked there for a couple of months and made a little over 10,000 each month, but she didn't like drinking everyday since she's not a drinker. A couple of beers and her head is spinning.
As for Shanghai being different than Guangdong, I don't know about that. I went to KTV about a dozen times in Shanghai to at least 8 different places, and almost everytime, the girl was available for takeout. I've paid as little as 800 and as much as 3000 for a night. Only once was I rebuffed. In the same vein, there are many places, especially Shenzhen and Guangzhou, in Guangdong where the girls are not automatic takeouts.
O2G,
If you are planning on offering the girl a stipend, it's important to know how much money she needs every month. Some girls lead complicated lives. I know one girl, who makes around 30,000 yuan a month. She's a superstar at the KTV at Carianna Square. Anyway, she bought a new apartment last year. Her monthly mortgage payments are over 10,000 yuan per month because she took out a 5 year loan. A girl like her is obviously going to need more than 10,000 a month. On the other hand, if she's just renting a small apartment somewhere with a roommate, and she leads a frugal life, a couple thousand may very well suffice.
Girls, like men, are different and they enter the KTV business for different reasons. Some enter it strictly for the money. Others do it because they're not educated and don't know anything else to do and they happen to be particularly well skilled at entertaining men. Some girls are very concientious with their money, others are not. Some work at KTV hoping to make as much money as possible in a few years so they have the better things in life, like an apartment, or a car, or even a business. These girls will be very mercenary and looking out to make as much as they can out of every transaction. That's not necessarily a bad thing. With these girls, you know exactly where you stand and exactly where your obligation ends. If you want to end it, just stop giving her money.
Other girls like the money they make at KTV, but don't really care too much about it. If you make these girls happy, they'll be satisfied with much less money. That would describe my current girlfriend. The thing is though, it's hard to gauge if you have any obligation to them, besides the money. If she loves you, is there an obligation on the man's part to reciprocate? If they agree to be with you, these girls are giving you the best years of their lives; the years when they are the prettiest, the most desired, and potentially the best compensated. What is that worth? You can't just end this kind of relationship by stopping the money. I personally feel that a debt has been incurred by the man in this kind of situation. I'm not sure what that is yet, but as you can guess, I've thought about it a lot. Am I now indebted to take care of her for the rest of her life? Is a million yuan apartment too much? Or too little? Do I even have to give her anything? Isn't my company enough?
Every situation and every relationship is different, but in many ways, they're also the same. One thing that makes things a little more difficult with KTV girls that there really is nothing else they can do that makes them anywhere near as much money. Maybe a job as a massage girl at a high end hotel can compare, but you would need training for that. A KTV girl really doesn't need any skills as long as she's pretty. A not unreasonable comparison is that of a football player. Neither career is very long or very healthy, but they make a lot more money than the average salary man. Because the career is so short, they have to make all their money in a few years because after that, they're rarely qualified for anything else.
If we agree to take them out of KTV for whatever reason, we should compensate them somewhat for what will be lost income. I really have no opinion as to how much though. I'm not sure whether potential lost income is the right amount. I'm also not sure if just enough to live on is the right amount either. We're not just playing with their emotions, we're playing with their livelihood and their potential future quality of life. If we take away two years from their KTV careers, that could easily be 200,000 which goes pretty far in China. That 200,000, if invested well, could easily be worth over 2,000,000 in twenty years, when the girl's in her 40's. They're with us to basically make us happy, and how much is that happiness worth to us? I don't know.
PS. Is your GSM phone carrier unlocked? If so, you can just buy a prepaid SIM for China. You can get one from either China Mobile or China Unicom. I recommend China Mobile since they have better coverage. If I remember correctly, the prepaid SIM costs 200 yuan. It comes with a 50 yuan prepaid card. You can buy recharge cards in 50 yuan or 100 yuan amounts. There are also 300 yuan cards, but most retailers don't carry them. Some places have paper vouchers instead of cards. You can find these things at most convenience stores. Calling your US phone number, even with an IP card will cost at least 6 yuan a minute. From a mobile without using 17951 it might cost over 10 yuan. An even better option is to ask your girlfriend to get you a post paid SIM. Rates are cheaper and you don't have to constantly buy those stupid cards. The phone company will deduct money from her bank account every month.
Tinybobo1002
10-12-04, 01:42
O2G,
I wish you all the luck with your shanghai baobe. I have my two cents, though.
Assuming she is a part-timer looking for a few thousand dollars to supplement her day job, you can give her like 3000rmb per month plus the apartment. You can also assist her to further her education and to expand her network so that she can have a future. She will become yours forever.
Assuming she is a "greedy" and skilful KTV worker looking for a big fish, give her 30,000 to 50,000 rmb per month to satisfy her appetite. You can't be in Shanghai all the time. 10,000 rmb will not be sufficient to retire her from KTV, cuz she can easily make three times of that amount. Your generosity of 10,000 rmb is not enough to replace her lost income. She may stay with you when you are in Shanghai, but when you are not, she will work for another KTV. If she gets 30k to 50k from you, she will have to calculate the risk of losing you.
This afternoon, I talked to three Chinese guys, two from Shanghai and one from Hong Kong, after our business. One Shanghai guy said this is what they call "play heart beat". Alot of Chinese businessmen have a retired KTV girl. Taiwanese tend to pay alot, from 50K to 100K per month. Most of these relationship do not work out. The threat comes after a few years when the girl asks for more, like a marriage.
The Shanghai guy said if I want to try "play heart beat", I should try college girls. The new generation of Chinese is spoiled, especially those from big cities like sh and bj. Those college girls, for a modest fee of a few thousand rmb per month, will become my girlfriend. And, they are not pros. I said no to them. Given my age, I don't want to walk this young girl on the street in Shanghai.
Some insights for you Nine Dragon.
-In a city like Shanghai, a low-level office worker can make around 1,500RMB, not 2,500RMB(may be there are exceptions but should not be a benchmark reference). Average income in Shanghai is the highest in China, at around 3,900RMB (fresh U grad 2,000-2,500RMB, and an overseas returned MBA could make as much as 7,000-8,000RMB). In general an office clerk/receptionist would not make more than 2000RMB if she's not a U grad with English ability. In Beijing, even a U grad could only make 2,000RMB on average.
-most K-girl don't make 100RMB a night for entertaining guest. At most establishments they make 300RMB, at some highends they make 500RMB. I am sure there are some places charge at 100RMB but I doubt these girls could find a low-level office job, since most of the low end K girls are from those remote farmlands, they could probably be waitress or retail sales.
-Yes some K girls would just go out with customers if customers pay. And some would go pout selectively. But there are some who don't. Especially Shanghai local girls. And you haver to know that, some of them have a day time job and they don't workj in karaoke everyday.
-Yet, I agree with Nine Dragon, if the girl go out with you on a money arrangement, don't believe they would only go out with you.....
Moody and Tatyu,
Thanks very much for your follow-up comments all valid and insightful. I certainly keep yours and others on this thread under advice for future reference.
When I read Moody抯 posting last month or so in a few sections in China board, each reading has not failed to date that Moody covers the topic with experiences, background shedding flood light on the topic, his thoughts (some are fairly philosophical, humane and practical) with comprehensive touch points for 360 degrees. So his contributions must have been resourceful to others on this board. I抦 impressed and thank you.
I can feel and be assured by each contributor抯 posting and its style and content that each of you will be more than likely in a leadership position in your profession/business and have been enjoying reasonable career/business success.
Moody,
I have two GSM phones. I know the first one is unlocked one and have been used local SIM cards in EMEA and CALA as I travel to these regions. Then phone抯 identity has to change as SIM card changes. Folks in the USA have gone crazy to track me down by memorizing the local numbers.
Verizon has recently come out with a new world phone supporting CDMA and GSM in quad bands. Two keystrokes change from one mode to another. Unique advantage of this phone is that the folks at home simply dial same US mobile number, which then follows me around for those countries using CDMA and GSM. Cost is still substantially higher than local number using local SIM card but convenience overrides the cost.
I will bring two phones on my next trip to China. If this new global phone works well as advertised, then I will pop a local SIM card into my unlocked GSM phone for local number and inexpensive mobile use for personal and after business calls.
Member #2085
10-14-04, 08:33
As exciting as it often is, freebie-chasing sometimes comes with a cost.
I was walking back home from a restaurant yesterday night and I started to chat with a girl who had just got off work and was heading in the same direction as I was. To break the ice, I saw that she was eating sunflower seeds and I asked her what kind of seeds she was eating. She offered me some and then we started walking and talking. I recognized this glance in her eyes that said "I am bored and a foreign friend may free me up". She was very enthousiastic and even grabbed my arm at some point. She spoke no english at all and I offered to teach her (that is my strategy). I could tell it wouldn't be too difficult to undress her. But not that specific night, because someone special was waiting for me at home. So I decided to be nice and to give her my cell number, and that was a stupid mistake.
I only have one cell phone. The girl keeps calling me and sendind duan xin (short messages) every hour.
Things I must do if I am to continue freebie-chasing? Buy a sex-phone.
good day my mongering compadres.
old matter: tatyu i don't see why you feel my comments were 'beyond imagination.' clandestine had a question i answered. his question was how you can date these girls. i tried to explain how i have dated them and what you have to be careful about. i actually agree with what you said to an extent. you are certainly right that girls at bbs, ktv, are out for money. that is why i said feel them out when talking with them. as o2g recent posts show not all the women are out for pure money.
what i think nobody here has touched on about the pro's we meet is that they are still women. they have all the same needs for intimacy and love that other women do. these girls get treated pretty badly by many of our kind. they have dreams of a house, family, children, and such. they think about traveling to places while holding their husband hand. all of that said chinese women are also very pragmatic. if a girl meets a man who can provide the basics better than a local guy they are very eager and willing in many cases to over come racial prejudices.
many of these girls come from very poor families and started working in a factory to help pay for a family members medical needs before they could finish high school. if they look good one of their friends will talk to them about how much easier it would be to work in the sex industry. they look at the money, and then start to work. after awhile a recruiter comes from one of the big cities and takes them out. they see shanghai or shenzhen and see even more money. later they see the big bucks are made in ktvs and they do not have to have sex with x men a day, maybe one and not always even that. if they have the looks they can get hired by a ktv. some of these girls have never worked in a factory the family or friends explained the business when they were old enough to start at 16 to 18. the situation end up being the same irregardless most of the girls never felt a close sense of intimacy.
they start so young and never have a real boyfriend to develop boundaries about relationships. they get thrust into our arms by unsympathetic bosses and forced to do all kinds of things many of us can抰 even image someone would or could find pleasure from. they sell their bodies so they can get enough money to get out. but it isn抰 easy to get out. they meet a guy he tells them a load of shit about how they will be together forever. she makes a break from the business after a few weeks or months she realizes the guy is just using her for sex and doesn抰 intend to marry or give her a relationship. she goes back to what she knows and maybe gives relationships one or two more tries. most likely the same results and she thinks nobody will ever love her. on top of her feelings that all men are sex crazed monsters that only care about how they can take advantage of her body.
how can a woman come out of that with out scars? there isn抰 a way for it to happen. it is possible that she can overcome her pain, feelings of guilt, hate for the men that used her. it isn抰 likely she will have the maturity to do so for many years after she left the business. i think most of us basically treat the girls well, we have normal sex and about the worst we do is give them a royal good fucking. this isn抰 where they get damaged. it is those among us who go in and treat the girls badly, hurt the girls, lie to the girls, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) them, and forcing them to do sick perverted shit. (i know the hypocrisy of saying somebody else does something sick and perverted when i would be considered the same by someone else. my view is that there is a distinction between p4p and ramming a soda bottle up a girl抯 ass. one is a normal activity that if i did with a 慻irlfriend would be considered not perverted. so why is paying someone to do the same considered immoral or perverted. for that matter why it is ok for a girl to demand we give gifts before she puts out. is that not the same? also some would say you can not [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) someone you pay. i say that if a provider doesn抰 want to do something with you and you force her it is the same thing.) in addition there are the things girls do to themselves. such as greed, and lying about their situation, these pile up and after some time she herself has contributed to her moral corruption.
i think moody and tatyu hit the nail on the head o2g. you need to be careful about any girl from the business. in addition to what they said you need to consider the psychology factors. in the end you should really keep it p4p. you must really be smitten with this kitten to want to put her up like that. i personally think that in shanghai it is pretty easy to find girls between 18 and 30 that are not in the business and would be completely devoted to you. you might have to put up with some pressure about marriage every now and then, but if your open and honest with them it won抰 be all that much. consider that you can get a great college educated english speaking assistant for only about 2500-5000 a month and it could include the extras. find one that has a good business mind and you can help her setup her own. talk about win/win.
Off2Golf:
Sorry this is OT for the board, but RE global phones, TMoblile has had that deal for over a year, although with three band phones and not supporting CDMA, although for all I know they have kept abreast of the technology as well. The rate for China (calls to and from USA) was also pretty high, though, something like $2.40/min. From what you say, the global phone sounds like a trend that may have attracted other providers, so everybody check around. If you put a local SIM card in an unlocked phone I don't think you can do international long distance (but it sure is cheap for domestic calling in China), unless you set up that service with the local provider (I think China Mobile calls it Quanqiu tong). Let's take this thread over to Living in China if there's more to be said.
Cheers
Are you people the same as me?
Sometimes I do come accross a real sex maniac which is 100% fun. Still, I can't meet her more then 3 times. Would just get too bored. I think the 'unexpected' does play a very large part in the fun. If you know what you get 70% fun is removed.
Or not?
Clandestine782
10-15-04, 15:35
This may not be appropriate to post here, but I think that you guys have to know......
Warning:
A friend of mine is always talking about how low the STD rate is here in China, and he goes bare with hookers every chance he gets.
Thinking with my other head, I went bareback in a place where I shouldn't have-- and caught what must have been the World's Worst Case of the Clap.
I got some type of urethritis that took *four* (count them *four*) antibiotics before the infection resolved itself. And from what I was able to gather, at least two of the other men were there at the dermatologists for the same reason at the same time of day. And then there was another one there each time I came back for the follow up visits.
The girl told me that she had been working in the game for 2 weeks. But strangely, she almost encouraged me to go bare. I suspect that this was someone trying to get revenge. After I got everything taken care of, I went back to the place she worked and told her boss that she was deliberately spreading things to the customers (which was probably true). They listened with interest. Or if it wasn't interest, it must have been well feigned. (I think that it wasn't, because I told them that the girl had been pirating business from them-- which she did when she came to my house under the nose of the hotel). Lessons learned:
1. Don't believe that someone has been in the game for a short time *just* because they say they have. Nor that they don't have any disease *just* because they think they don't.
2. STDs are relatively common here. And my evidence is that: A. There were at least two other people there at the same time of day for what may have been the same thing; B. The doctor started right out with the big gun antibiotics, and it *still* took three others before I was fixed. Something doesn't add up mathematically.
3. When asking for the antibiotics, make it clear that you don't want the imported brand if you can get away with it. Though they are made by Western companies, they cost about 10 times as much. And the doctors are all too willing to prescribe imported medicine to foreigners. I would have paid 248RMB for something that turned out to have only been 17RMB at a clinic that gave the domestic brand--which still cured the infection in something like 8 hours with a single bolus injection.
4. Once you've had a urethral swab (which is done by dipping a Qtip in SALT WATER and putting in your inflammed urethra THREE TIMES), you'll NEVER make the mistake of going bare again. However pleasant raw muff may feel, the QTip is not worth it.
Total damage: 400RMB and untold embarassment.
Clandestine,
You're not alone. There are many people that have had bad cases of the clap. As you said some of the new bugs are very drug resistant.
If they don't come out with a new anti-biotic soon some of the common infections that haven't hurt anyone for 50 years are going to kill a bunch of people.
Wicked
Cover up, it's safe for you, and safe for me. (sounds like a seat belt slogan doesn't it. :-) )
OldAsiaHand
10-16-04, 03:48
DayNight,
I can never take the same girl more than a couple of times no matter how good they are. Sometimes, I will go back to one girl after a bit of time if I want a guarantee of good service. Having said that, there is nothing like the newness and intrigue in the quest to do as many girls as possible in a lifetime!
Just my POV.
OAH
OldAsiaHand
Exactly my thinking!
Anyway, I will be off to TangXia again Wednesday or so for another 'debate'. The topic will be this time about relationships, domestic issues, health care and hygine.
Ace of Spades
10-17-04, 15:25
Clandestine,
Sorry to hear of your STD problem. Although I have never had an STD, I have been scared shitless on more than one occasion about the possibility of having one. I think I told you about the Taiwan story and the ringworm infection from HELL (pain and oozing pus) on my grown after I slept with a hooker bareback. NEVER AGAIN!!!
Clandestine, you are a big boy, so I won抰 preach to you. However, you should consider a full panel blood test to rule out other infections like HIV. You might want to give your XiaoDD a rest.
.
There is a good chance your old roommate probably has some kind of STD. I would not believe anything his says. As we discussed before, he is a real bullshiter.
Tatyu and others,
I'd like to hear more about this "play heart beat".
A college student i connected with and keep in contact with is now living with a business man. He has a wife in another town and has moved them into the local apt near the college. She's falling/fallen in love with him. Her original attraction was described as more of a mentoring, how can he help me, kind of thing.
Well the asshole knocked her up. She claims not to have heard about birth control pills (possible?) and that he doesnt like condoms and "thought he couldnt have kids". She's already had the abortion and now laments the original agreement that they could never marry.
My questions: is this a drama being played frequently around china's universities, is this what you'd call play heart beat, does play heart beat mean pretend you have an emotional attachment for the girl but really dont.
Thanks for any opinions and info
Wanabee: sorry I don't quite understand your story....
Tatyu, Papadum and others, (2nd try at this)
I'd like to hear more about this "play heart beat".
A college girl i connected with last april and keep in contact with, moved in with a business man in an apartment he rented near her college. He has a wife in another town.
When she decided to move in with him (months ago) the major attraction was that he could help/mentor her. Now, she's falling/fallen in love with him.
Well the asshole recently got her pregnant. She's already had the abortion and now regrets the original agreement: that they could never marry.
My questions: is this what you'd call play heart beat, does play heart beat mean pretend you have an emotional attachment for the girl but really dont, is it pretty common for college girls to be mistresses of business men, and could she really not have heard of birth contro pills?
Thanks for any opinions and information.
Thanks for any opinions and info
Clandestine,
Dude, I feel for you man. There's a much easier way though. You can take the following in one does.
Azithromycin 1000mg (usually 4 250mg tablets)
Ciproflaxin 500mg (usually 1 capsule)
You can buy the above from almost any pharmacy. This works for both gonorrhea and chlamydia. If you notice that it hurts when you start pissing, just take the above. Unless you have one of the new super resistant strains, the above will take care of what you have in about 7-10 days. During that time, lay off the girls.
If you have the time you really should always go to the hospital. A couple shots of anti-biotics cures it up more quickly, they normally give you pills for seven or so days just to be sure. Also you can get tested for everything else which gives you peace of mind. Just remember to follow up in a couple of months to be certain your clean.
It's a high risk activity, sometimes even dangerous. Everyone be carefull when mongering. I hate to hear people get ripped off or end up with a life long condition.
I have thought it might be funny to show up wearing a body glove (the neoprene suits surfers wear) sometime so no actual skin to skin contact can happen. Wear latex gloves, the thin summer body suit, a condom. It would make a great safe sex video.
Wannabee,
I don't really have answers to most of your questions, but I do know the one about birth control pills. Most girls take them after having sex. I forgot the dosage, but an overdose of birth control pills within 48 hours of having sex will usually prevent pregnancy. When girls talk about birth control pills, they're usually talking about this and not what we're normally used to seeing, which is a pill taken everyday.
Wanabee,
1. I would say it is very common for men to "pretend" they have an emotional attachment. Why? They want some pus! So I would guess "play heartbeat" means to "pretend to love". Play the part.
2. Sure, young ladies are attracted to businessmen. She thought he was rich and that he loved her. They all want to be loved.
3. She probably knew about birth control, but she must rationalize her behavior by saying she didn't. She doesn't want to appear foolish so she pleads innocence. "It wasn't my fault, I didn't know".
It's sad she is having a difficult life. Life is a struggle, it's a greater struggle for some than it is for others.
Is "play heart beat" an english translation of a chinese phrase or idiom. How would you say it in mandarin?
Member #1701
10-25-04, 04:25
More on the Pill - There are Birth Control Pills available in China that would prevent pregnancy for up to 30 days ( I know cos my ex-gf used to take them). They come in packs of 12 (one for each month) and are pinkish in color. Definitely effective, but I don't know about long term effects to the girl.
1701
I was just reading some of the older posts in this thread and don't quite get a couple of things:
1. Some of the people here seem to be paying Chinese girls thousands of RMB a month just to be their regular girlfriends. How come you pay a Chinese girl money on a regular basis to be your "girlfriend"? I'm just curious, since I have always found it very easy to find normal, non-hooker type girls to go out with in China, who didn't want any money and I think most other western men have had similar experiences. Personally I like to go to Chinese professionals, especially for a massage/sex combination, but I think either you pay and she's a hooker to whom you don't have a serious relationship apart from sex, which is alright in my opinion, or she's a regular girl, you don't pay her and she may become a real girlfriend.
2. Others here are thinking about building up serious relationships to KTV girls. Again like in question 1, when there are so many normal Chinese girls, like college students, secretaries, school teachers etc. who often seem more than glad to meet and have contact with western men, why just choose a KTV girl? These girls have probably had a lot of negative experiences with men and have become hard and greedy, have sex with them all you want, but don't make the mistake of trusting them or investing any feelings or any more money than they demand for immediate sexual service. In my experience most Chinese girls are kind, hardworking, with a conservative, family-oriented type attitude when compared to western women, why look for a relationship or love among the minority that probably has some deepseated character flaws?
Moody and Wanabee,
I was unaware that chinese girls are using birth control pills as a morning after pill. Are they so poorly informed? I would have thought that with the "one child only" policy that these girls would be very well informed about birth control. I guess I do not know China so well.
However, I do know that in every country there is a lot of ignorance out there!!! Keep your condoms on!
Wicked,
I don't have any STD. I get an annual physical including all bloodwork and STD checks. The most recent one was about 3 months ago. The prescription comes directly from my doctor in the US. I asked what I should do if I'm overseas and I think I have an STD. He told me to just take what I wrote below. It'll clear up the clap and chlamydia. Other STD's will require a bit more work.
Tinybobo1002
10-28-04, 09:05
Wanabeen, I have been traveling in the past 10 days, and at this moment, I am in a cafe at the Hong Kong Airport using their free Internet service. I will send you my 2 cents as soon as I return to Canada.
However, one thing I would like to share with everyone now as an addendum to our discussion about KTV girls.
I went to Shanghai, Shen Zhen and Dong Guan this time. While in GD, I went to a few KTVs and found drastic changes in the "admission fee" structure of KTV girls. As indicated in my previous postings, KTV girls in China usually have to pay an admission fee of a few thousand RMB in order to work there. That has been changed.
There was a major crackdown targetting mongers from Hong Kong, so their volume of traffic has drastically reduced. Be realistic, even if we are very active in this board, 90% of the mongers in DG are from Hong Kong and possibly the 9% from Taiwan, making the balance of 1% from other parts of the world.
Most KTV in GD are in a cold winter, in terms of their business. They are losing girls everyday, so in order to survive they have changed their admission fee structure as follows:
1. All girls now will have to pay 950 RMB per month as "management fee" to get a batch to work in KTV. It is easier for girls to enter or to leave the business.
2. There are numerous penalties for non-compliance, e.g. 100 RMB for coming in late or leaving early, 50 for eating or smoking, 200 for not wearing designated uniform or not observing the dress code, 25 for failure to ask the customer to order a lady's drink.
3. The customers have the right to change girl free of charge before 11 pm, even if the girl has been sitting with us for three hours. That means the girl may be drinking with us for the whole night without getting the 200 sitting fee.
The girls I have talked to usually have to pay on average 2500 RMB per month for these fees.
How about their income? They have no fixed wage, of course. The scale remains 2-5-8. For sitting, they get 200 from their customer, but now they can keep most of them, 150, because most Hong Kong mongers are now so "chicken" to bring them out. For short term and overnight, they have to pay their mame 120 RMB.
Business is very bad. Last night, The mame of group 1 in Versailles had 20 girls, but she was able to "sell" (in her word) only 2 of them, and only one followed the customer, who was me, to the hotel.
Why do I write another long report about admission fee structure? KTV in China is a well organized business. The primary goal is money. The girls in KTV have become very aggressive now. They don't care if someone is sitting with me already. I was approached by about 10 girls if I would want the second or even the third one, or if she can replace the one who has been sitting with me the whole night. This is cut-throat business.
If you want a freebie, go somewhere else, at work, in the mall or in your classroom where you are teaching them English.
If you are like me that KTV is real fun, be prepared to show them your green backs.
I had a very good time in Dongguan. I will write a report and attach it with pictures after I have returned home.
Travel Dog
11-04-04, 10:36
Tatyu
What you say is probably very true for one particular KTV. But there are diffeent rules for every KTV. The pricing structure varies and the penalties for breaking the rules vary too. I live in DG and can say that business is still quite good overall.
Saw a raid on a barbershop the other day and they hauled three girls off but the place never closed. I think the police may have been checking ID cards and hauled those off that didn't have them.
Tatyu - we are looking forward to your report!
TD
Wanabeen, I have been traveling in the past 10 days, and at this moment, I am in a cafe at the Hong Kong Airport using their free Internet service.
-----cut
-----cut
There was a major crackdown targetting mongers from Hong Kong, so their volume of traffic has drastically reduced. Be realistic, even if we are very active in this board, 90% of the mongers in DG are from Hong Kong and possibly the 9% from Taiwan, making the balance of 1% from other parts of the world.
Hi Tatyu:
More information?
1. Where in HKG you can use their internet service. Do you remember the store or location.
2. Can you be more specific on where was this crackdown, ie city. Any arrest and fines for mongers. What was you source?
Thanks,
Weelock
Clandestine782
11-05-04, 18:24
This is from China. I had a hooker that had that smell around her box. I wore a cover, but wonder: Could this have been an ointment to cure some disease? I had a friend here tell me that a lot of hookers like to use the menthol/ eucalyptus because it has a cooling effect, which is useful after being pumped by x number of customers per day. Has anyone heard of anything like this?
Please send the reply to my PM box.
Angel Eyes
11-06-04, 06:54
Please send the reply to my PM box.
Clandestine782,
As far as I know, the purpose of this forum is sharing. I never heard about what you wrote before, and I'm also curious. So why are you asking people to PM you? If anyone has something he (or she...) would like to keep from others, but stil tell you, they'll PM you anyway. Otherwise, I can't see a reason why not share with al of us.
Could this have been an ointment to cure some disease? I had a friend here tell me that a lot of hookers like to use the menthol/ eucalyptus because it has a cooling effect, which is useful after being pumped by x number of customers per day
Sounds like tea tree oil. It is a mild antiseptic. Could be she is using it as a preventative measure but she might have had some infection.
BJK
Clandestine 782,
My hunch is that the smell was from Tiger Balm ointment which is a very popular topical salve among asians. Its ingredients are menthol, camphor, and oils of cinnamon, clove and mint. It's commonly used to relieve headaches, sore muscles, and cold/flu symptoms such as cough, congestion, stuffy nose, etc. and is much like Vicks vapo-rub more common in the US. I have no idea why she was applying it down there. Guess you'll just have to ask her.
phil,
why pay for a girlfriend? the answer is simply that it makes it easier to change. most chinese girls are very loving, caring, kind girls. they will put everything into the relationship. their culture and peers push them to find a committed relationship and get married in their early twenties. if all your looking for is a short term relationship it is easier to find a p4p that will work long term than to date x girls to find one that is ok with that situation. x being a fairly large number in my experience. go to any of the personal ad sites and post "(your nationality) male looking for a short term relationship. no long term commitments." or something along those lines and see how many chinese girls reply. then post the same but replace short term to marriage minded or long term leading to marriage and watch your hotmail account run out of space.
why build a relationship with ktv girl? the answer to that is a little different. why not? is one answer. the longer version is all the negatives you give to the girl can be applied to you. i agree anyone considering dating a pro has to be carefull. i have outlined my position a couple times in the past. i have dated a few pros and for the most part they are normal girls. they tend to be a little sensitive to situations where they might be recognized or joking about the past. if you show them respect and love they will return the same. yes there are crooks, but its not a high percentage from my experience. the thing you have to be careful about it some girls will use your feelings to milk money from you. which is why you must change your status from pay once she recognizes you as her boyfriend. you can't be jealous of her job unless your willing to replace her income. you shouldn't preach or say her job is bad. it is what she does, and is how you met her. if the two of you have something special what difference does it make. all of us pursuing our hobby have decided it is ok. why is it not ok for the girl?
i personaly have decided that i have to be friends with a pro for awhile before i will consider being in a relationship. the whole milking you situation is easier to spot if you approach it from that angle. but if i find my diamond at a bbs or ktv why not polish it and do all the same as i would if i met her at a art show or business function.
i don't think any of us are not looking in other places for our diamond. we accept that she might be our neighbor or our favorite pro. since you only have 4 posts maybe your new to mongering. you haven't actually thought your position out yet.
just my thoughts
wicked
i was just reading some of the older posts in this thread and don't quite get a couple of things:
1. some of the people here seem to be paying chinese girls thousands of rmb a month just to be their regular girlfriends. how come you pay a chinese girl money on a regular basis to be your "girlfriend"? i'm just curious, since i have always found it very easy to find normal, non-hooker type girls to go out with in china, who didn't want any money and i think most other western men have had similar experiences. personally i like to go to chinese professionals, especially for a massage/sex combination, but i think either you pay and she's a hooker to whom you don't have a serious relationship apart from sex, which is alright in my opinion, or she's a regular girl, you don't pay her and she may become a real girlfriend.
2. others here are thinking about building up serious relationships to ktv girls. again like in question 1, when there are so many normal chinese girls, like college students, secretaries, school teachers etc. who often seem more than glad to meet and have contact with western men, why just choose a ktv girl? these girls have probably had a lot of negative experiences with men and have become hard and greedy, have sex with them all you want, but don't make the mistake of trusting them or investing any feelings or any more money than they demand for immediate sexual service. in my experience most chinese girls are kind, hardworking, with a conservative, family-oriented type attitude when compared to western women, why look for a relationship or love among the minority that probably has some deepseated character flaws?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4090741.stm
Ace of Spades
12-25-04, 20:59
It seems so much easier to go out with KTV/bar girls as opposed to "normal girls." I have been coming to China for a while, and this time around seems to be the best, in terms of finding female companionship (paid).
I am a reguraly visitor to saunas and KTV's with my local chinese friends. I simply exchange numbers with the girls on duty and agree to meet elsewhere when it mutually possible. The girls are real stunners, 9/10 or 10/10 in some cases. They come to my place or a hotel, and then get down to business. So easy! Local chinese guys stare an drool when I am with "my girls."
On the contrary, "normal girls", don't seem to pay attention to me. They just honestly laugh and giggle and walk away. Most seem some what shy and reserved, maybe it is because I am black. So I have given up and just focused my complete time on paid girls. Further, I don't mind paying the girls (200 RMB for sex is cheap), but the moment she goofs up, I cut her loose (I had to do this to one recently, she was a no show (she was the one who called me to meet, and she called the next day wanting to meet) I give them one chance and only ONE CHANCE. I don't put up with girls that rush, no shows on dates or are overzealous money grubbers. Time is money. I try not fall in love with them or develop any feelings, so it east to move to the next one.
Recently, I had a real sweety from Yunnan province, the best in my 6 years of coming to Asia. We made love like lovers, a real GFE.
This is second installment of my journey with a KTV girl (let抯 call her Madison) whom I had encountered unexpected and unlikely (from my perspectives anyway) in Shanghai about five months ago. My first posting about my first encounter with her had received many and diverse posts most of which were insightful, educational, constructive and encouraging.
I went back to Shanghai for business about two months ago with good memory of Madison. Prior to this trip, I had been in contact with Madison via email and telephone calls on and off between the trips.
Once my itinerary was finalized, I asked her whether she would take a short trip with me within China. She pleasantly agreed. A friend of mine in China took care of this fun trip like flights and hotel.
I arrived at Pudong international airport in mid-morning on Saturday. Lovely Madison was waiting for me. We were driven to the domestic airport and took off to Xi抋n. We had great time in Xi抋n throughout the weekend and came back to Shanghai on Monday morning. So this trip was for day one through three.
Day 4 - Upon checking in the hotel in Shanghai, we had lunch and we went our own way me for my work in the afternoon and Madison for her work in the evening. We planned in advance that I along with a few colleagues would be in her workplace for the evening and we would leave the place at 11:00 p.m. and be back to home (hotel). So we executed the plan as planned.
Day 5 Madison honored my request of taking a day off from her work and hung out with me upon my return from the work. We had great dinner with a couple of friends and went to the golf practice range for fun. Upon returning to the hotel, Madison gave me a very nice facial massage which took about an hour. She gave me a similar one on my previous trip.
Day 6 She woke up late in the morning, got her foot massage and was relaxing when I returned from the work. We along with a friend had early dinner at very nice hot pot restaurant and sent Madison away to work. Then two of us went out for the evening. Madison told me that she would not come back home (hotel) as she had to pay her apartment rent to the landlord early in the morning next day. She would not want to wake up early as she goes to bed late in the night after work and go to her apartment from the hotel. She said that she would come home on Thursday after work.
Day 7 I was working outside of Shanghai. Madison called me a couple of times to 慶heck me out and sent me a SMS when she was ready to go to work. In addition to a global phone following me around, I brought my unlocked GSM phone with me for this trip and popped in a local SIM card for easy/inexpensive phone calls to/from local contacts/business/friends and Madison. I had very nice business outing with a few business contacts for the evening. I got back to the hotel around midnight and Madison came back at around 1:30 a.m.
Day 8 She repeated her same routine (slept till lunch time, ran a few errands, and waiting for me in the hotel room) when I returned from the work. Again, four of us (Madison and I plus two buddies) had great dinner and we all went to her workplace. We had great time there and got back to hotel at around 11:30 p.m.
Day 9 We had to farewell at the airport. She was visibly upset and crying and I did not let her out of my car and asked the driver to take Madison to her apartment.
Communications
I do not speak Chinese and Madison speaks little English. I have a couple of good friends who were more than happy to help us communicate. I also have a couple of great software tools running on PocketPC and laptop computer. Both enabled us to communicate when we were alone.
We have been exchanging email a few times a week. Translation software has been wonderful thing. Her email in Chinese is translated into English and my email to her is translated into Chinese for her. Translation is reasonably good and definitely conveys the content and context at about 90% accuracy. Once I figured out the translation pattern, I would be able to get almost 100% of intended contextual content.
Money matter
As was previous visit with her, she did not exhibit any signs or hints of monetary rewards whatsoever. In fact, she had good amount of money with her for spending money for the trip to Xi抋n even though I would not allow her to spend any money.
Upon returning to Shanghai from the trip, I gave her 500 RMB defined as 搕axi money for moving around from the hotel to wherever she needed to go. I told her that she could use my car (with driver) while I was in the office or stayed put in one place for long time, she said that taxi would be just fine for her and she did not want to cause any kind of inconvenience to me.
I also told her that I would send the car to her apartment for airport pickup for my arrival, she said 搃t is not necessary and I do not want to make a big deal out of coming out to the airport to greet you. I would be happy to wake up early in the morning and go to the airport to see you. Waking up early in the morning is tougher than taking taxi to the airport.
On day 5, I gave her 1,000 RMB to buy shoes and clothes that are somewhat elegant/conservative style. I am not particularly fond of too casual and sporty fashion styles and she knows about it. She refused to take the money and said she would be very happy to buy such with her own money if that made me happy. I firmly insisted to take the money to buy shoes and clothes that I would enjoy to see her in new cloths. So she did. She went out and bought a couple of clothes and a pair of shoes and I adored her wearing new cloths and shoes.
I had a sort of crazy but brilliant idea about rewarding her. She had refused to take the money that I had given her on previous visit. Therefore, instead of giving her cash, I gave her my ATM card for my local bank account. I told her that she would not need my permission to withdraw money and she can withdraw money as long as she believes that she has appropriate needs.
Madison told me a month ago or so that she withdrew some money to buy a nice wool blanket for winterization as then temperature in Shanghai was wet and cold. I do not know how much she withdrew, as she did not tell me the amount and I did not ask.
I frankly did not care about the amount. Based on her past behavior, I thought I would take this risk with her. Even if she emptied out the account, which only has less than ten thousand RMBs, so I would not care much about it, as I would be happy to give her money anyway. I would be more disappointed than anything else, as my expectation on her behavior was not met.
That was only withdraw that Madison mentioned so I assume that it was the only ATM transaction she made. I will find out the details when I go back to Shanghai in about two weeks. I am more interested in how she has handled the account, which will be good indication of how her mind be positioned for this unusual fair.
Exhibition of care and attention
I smoke cigars time to time. I usually do not bring cigar cutter and torch style lighter with me for travel due to inconsistent practice on these items by TSA staff at various airports. Some are OK with them while some treat me like a cousin to terrorists. As they are reasonably good quality stuff so I did not want to take chance of losing them.
Madison saw me a few times that I bit off cigars and used match or regular cigarette lighter. She bought me nice cigar cutter and torch style lighter. She said that she thought I needed them to enjoy my cigar smoking. I was touched and surprised.
Treating her like truly my woman
She knows and appreciates that I treat her and spend time with her like she is truly my lady. That was feedback through a friend of mine who had initially bridged me with her. Well, I treat all women (whom I like to be friend with) with my utmost care!
Where am I going with Madison?
Madison has been 揷omplaining on two things infrequent visit to Shanghai for her and one week long visit is too short. She assured me numerous times in email that she would be accommodate my schedule by compromising her work schedule. She will come to and greet me at the airport.
She started slowly opening up about herself and her family. Now I have high-level understanding of where her money goes (investment and savings) and stays, dilemmas and issues at her work places in day and evening, and what is going on with her family.
I am fully cognizant how I found her, of capability of KTV girls, how opportunistic majority of KTV girls can be. One most interesting about her is that she yet to display typical attributes and personas of KTV girls.
I will go with flow wherever this goes and treat her no different than any other ladies whom I have come across to date. Will I lose my cool head over lust with this young thing? Answer is 慳bsolutely not. I抳e been handing similar situations reasonably well and I have a similar case in Brazil which has been going great for three years with a beautiful Brazilian garota (girl) without losing mind or shirt. I love this unique experience with Madison and enjoy it every moment and opportunity.
If she truly convinces me with all data points that she is ready to commit herself to 1x1 relationships, then I will deal with it. Hence, there is no need for me to jump on the gun at this point.
My activities around hunting for freebies took a somewhat unexpected turn. Initially I used the internet to make contact to local girls (like Thatsshanghai or Asiafriendfinder). Most girls I only met once as they were very suspicious (揳re you a married guy?) and indicated that they are looking for a relationship leading to marriage. I was only interested in getting to fuck a girl as fast as possible as by that time I was only for Business Travel in Shanghai, now I live there.
One of the girls that replied to my ad in Thatsshanghai started a little shyer than the others. Typically I would date the girls for dinner or at least in a nice bar. When I met her, she said she prefers just to have a cup of tea. She was also not starting to ask me lots of personal questions like marriage, etc just casual talk, exchanged Email addresses. Did not really come closer to her by any means.
I met her a second time some days later and still she did not appear to be attracted by me and did not react on any of my hints and compliments, just casual talk. Barely managed to kiss her goodbye on the cheek.
I decided to cancel this one as I did with others before and sent her an Email telling her that this is not what I am looking for. After reading the mail she called and wanted to meet the same day. I agreed and we met late in the night simply for another cup of tea. She did not mention my mail and was just into the casual talk again. I considered leaving after 30 minutes when all of a sudden she told me how shocked she was by my mail. I explained that I am not looking for somebody to talk but something more serious. I told her I really liked her a lot, which somewhat triggered her. She started hugging and kissing when we left the place.
I reconsidered dumping her and we agreed to meet the next day, she insisted in showing me her place. This time I decided to go for it. I came prepared with condoms and when sitting with her on her bed I started kissing her, touching her breasts and legs and so on. This definitely ignited her passion. I found myself fucking her 5 minutes later. She literally turned into an animal, making lots of noise.
I had to leave Shanghai back home, the next day. I stayed in touch for the weeks to come and visited her again 2 weeks later, again on business travel. Turned out it was her birthday so I gave her a nice little gift I knew she would enjoy, as she had shown me on my last trip. She was all excited about the gift and for the days I stayed this time we met each day fucking her brains out each single time.
Returning back home I started to face a dilemma. The next time I would go to Shanghai, it would be with my wife and kids and we would be living there. I decided that it might be best (and safest) to just dump her. So I indicated to her in an email that I am married and have kids. I thought this would automatically lead to an end of our relationship as she was obviously not interested in money.
She was really shocked when understanding what I just had told her but what do you know 2 Mails later she started indicating that there would still be possibilities to continue our relationship (揺xcuse me????).
I gave it a try and met her again, a couple of days after arriving in SH. She wanted to meet in her apartment which somehow indicated what would happen fucking for hours. Met her several times after that same story. I am pretty exhausted as she is very demanding but I enjoy it just the same as she does.
No need to mention that I am extra careful with planning the times I meet her because of my family situation.
Any of you guys have some suggestions for me. I don抰 see a major risk at the moment, but I might just overlook something. This is actually the first time I am having a real 揳ffair while married.
--cut--
Communications
I do not speak Chinese and Madison speaks little English. I have a couple of good friends who were more than happy to help us communicate. I also have a couple of great software tools running on PocketPC and laptop computer. Both enabled us to communicate when we were alone.
We have been exchanging email a few times a week. Translation software has been wonderful thing. Her email in Chinese is translated into English and my email to her is translated into Chinese for her. Translation is reasonably good and definitely conveys the content and context at about 90% accuracy. Once I figured out the translation pattern, I would be able to get almost 100% of intended contextual content.
---cut---Hi Off2Golf and anyone else:
Was wondering what type of translation software do you have? I抦 looking for a software translator for a computer (Intel /Windows2000), PocketPC, PDA or a good pocket translator. I feel communications is important with dealing with these girls and traveling around
First I got a pocket dictionary, Chinese to English / English to Chinese. It抯 too slow and limited and only one Chinese character at a time but small and cheap. I then purchased two pocket translator both are not very good. The first one was PDA 2000T by Group Sense LTD ($150), junk. Then I got the Besta Cd-75 pocket translator, a little better at $225. The Besta translator is only good with about 2 Chinese characters. Anything more, like full sentence, it has problems. I recall a girl wrote on a piece of paper, 揥here are you from or 揥hat type of person are you. I couldn抰 read it but gave my Besta pocket translator and we couldn抰 use it. I only found out what she wrote from the hotel manager later. She was a little short but pretty sadly I couldn抰 communicate with her.
I have asked a few people selling these pocket translators. They told me at this time, it抯 is not possible to translate a full sentence. Don抰 know how true this is? I have a copy of Twin Bridge for my computer but I think I need a keypad for inputting Chinese characters. Don抰 know if a mouse will work as an input device. Was thinking about getting these new cells phones that combines both a PDA and cell phone like the Sony/Ericsson P900. It has a translator but I don抰 know how good it is. Both my pocket translators might be better. It looks like the only way to go is a software program for a PC computer for my needs. Negative, a pain to be carry around all the time. Any suggest or advice on computer software, Pocket PC, PDA or pocket translator.
Thanks,
Weelock
If you guys want to learn to speak Chinese, don't get translation devices. They're like crutches and don't help you learn. The best way is to just immerse yourself in it and make mistakes and learn it one word at a time. Eventually, you'll realize that you can understand some of it and that they occasionally understand you. I went around China for 3 years with a translator in tow. During that time, all I learned how to say was "ni hao" and how to count so I can play the stupid drinking games at KTV. Early last year, I realized how ridiculous it was for a regular visitor to the country not to be able to speak even a few basic words in Chinese. Since that day I dumped the translator and have been getting around on my own. I've made many mistakes and probably offended some people, but at least I can now get around by myself. Most of the time, I can make myself be understood.
EDIT: Also, translation devices make mistakes. For example, if you type in something like, "where are you from?" the device will translate it literally. In Chinese you don't ask it like that, you literally ask, "you are where people."
O2G,
I'll arrive in Shenzhen on the 12th or so. Give me a call and maybe we can set up a meeting. I'd love to get together and hang out for a few days.
S Weelock
I have to agree with Moody.
I wish there was one out there that is worth it, but I don't believe there is.
I am learning some things with the girls that I chat with on MSN all the time. I ask them things and they spell them for me and I write it down and then work on it, and read and repeat it all the time. So far just getting phrases like wo hen xiang ni (I miss you so much) Wo zhen zai xiang ni (I am thinking of you) and many others useful in everyday life, but doing just that will help pick things up....and the girls think it is so cute that I want to learn.....LOL I have a few pages of things now.
I paid a few hundred USD for one that when it pronounces words I can't understand the pronunciation making it useless IMO.
Good Luck,
RAB
Hi Off2Golf and anyone else:
Was wondering what type of translation software do you have? I抦 looking for a software translator for a computer (Intel /Windows2000), PocketPC, PDA or a good pocket translator. I feel communications is important with dealing with these girls and traveling around
First I got a pocket dictionary, Chinese to English / English to Chinese. It抯 too slow and limited and only one Chinese character at a time but small and cheap. I then purchased two pocket translator both are not very good. The first one was PDA 2000T by Group Sense LTD ($150), junk. Then I got the Besta Cd-75 pocket translator, a little better at $225. The Besta translator is only good with about 2 Chinese characters. Anything more, like full sentence, it has problems. I recall a girl wrote on a piece of paper, 揥here are you from or 揥hat type of person are you. I couldn抰 read it but gave my Besta pocket translator and we couldn抰 use it. I only found out what she wrote from the hotel manager later. She was a little short but pretty sadly I couldn抰 communicate with her.
I have asked a few people selling these pocket translators. They told me at this time, it抯 is not possible to translate a full sentence. Don抰 know how true this is? I have a copy of Twin Bridge for my computer but I think I need a keypad for inputting Chinese characters. Don抰 know if a mouse will work as an input device. Was thinking about getting these new cells phones that combines both a PDA and cell phone like the Sony/Ericsson P900. It has a translator but I don抰 know how good it is. Both my pocket translators might be better. It looks like the only way to go is a software program for a PC computer for my needs. Negative, a pain to be carry around all the time. Any suggest or advice on computer software, Pocket PC, PDA or pocket translator.
Thanks,
Weelock
OldAsiaHand
01-09-05, 11:31
O2G,
Thanks for keeping us posted. I have to say I am surprised. As I posted after your previous report, I really thought she was playing you for a bigger hit. As the ultimate skeptic, I am curious how much she really withdrew from the bank. In any event, I really hope it works out for you. She would be one of the few exceptions I have seen over the years.
OAH
Moody,
I will definately call you for schedule coordination. I will be shanghai/Suzhou from 17th to 22nd of January. It would be great to see young brother and catch up with you.
OAH,
Thanks for your kind words.
As I briefly mentioned in previous posts, I had similar encounter in Brazil a little more than 3 years ago. I met Juliana at Caf Photo in Sao Paulo which is one of nicest clubs in the city. If you ever step onto Sao Paulo, this is one of many places to check out. She worked there part-time (Fridays and Saturdays when she could work) to make some money to pay her car installment payments. We parted after one night deed but exchanged contact information.
I contacted her on my following visit to Sao Paulo and she was very glad for me to initiate the contact. She came out and met with me, and we had great time over the weekend. By then she quit working at Caf Photo. We became great buddies since then and she usually took vacation days from her work on my visit to Sao Paulo, so then we could spend time together. When she is with me, I treat her with utmost care and she enjoys it.
Even though I often bought Juliana gifts (mainly nice perfumes) and gave her some money for lunch and taxi while I was out to work, she never asked for money and was just happy to hang out with me. I posted all details about Juliana in Sao Paulo board.
Lovely Juliana would be one of the exceptions that we time to time come across, which support your experience as well. It is a bit too early for me to conclude whether Madison would be also another case of the exceptions. I will certainly keep you posted this case development and how she has managed my bank account.
With disclaimer of limited mongering experience, most of women (definitely not all) whether they are professional or non-professional, appreciate gentle and respective caring treatment. I guess it is my nature when I deal with people, especially women. This could be the driver for lucky relationship once in a while.
O2G
S Weelock,
I completely concur with Moody and Rab about learning Chinese.
I installed Systran 5.0 Professional Edition Asian language Pack on my laptop. This software translates English into/from Japanese, Korean, Traditional Chinese and Simplified Chinese. Price is in range of $400.00.
This software package does decent job to translate with 80 to 90% accuracy in content and context. I learned that simpler sentence/paragraph generates greater accuracy. This software is mainly for translating email, document or web page from one language to another. When I am with my girl in hotel, I use this software to convey my a bit more complex thoughts and ideas than simple word expression to her.
I also have two pieces software installed in Toshiba Pocket PC - China2Go Phrase Book and H&H English-Chinese Dictionary. The Phrase Book has situation based phrases like Basic, Travel, Food, Lodging, Business, Sightseeing, Social, Shopping, Emergency, and the likes. Dictionary is a typical software based dictionary. Both software come with sound capability and you can hear how each word or phrase be pronounced in native Chinese pronunciation. Each software cost is in $20 to $30 range.
None of this software helps me learn conversational Chinese. I learn how each word or phrase be pronounced using the tool and have to practice with willing counterparts. As Rab indicated, Chinese folks including my girl deeply appreciate my efforts of learning Chinese.
Tequila Kid
01-10-05, 03:31
Hitman,
Interesting post. I am no expert on the mongering scene, but often chatted up several girls from That抯 magazine and AFF.
I make it to China about 7 times a year, so I do not have the time to follow through on all the opportunities. Meeting girls this way is an interesting, somewhat intellectual experience. I have also met a few none pro's in normal everyday situations.
My comments to you your post:
I never hide the fact that I am married. If they ask, I tell them.
I always treat the women with respect.
I show sincere interest and care about them.
I never shower them with gifts, expensive dinners or offer to 損ay them.
I spend time with them because I enjoy it. Their reasons for spending time with me are probably not so simple. Their psychology has been well commented on in this board by experienced mongers.
I am not surprised your girl remains interested once she found out you are married.
There could be many reasons for this. Repeat, their psychology is documented on this board.
As far as overlooking something, I have never been in your situation. In the states, I would never consider having an affair.
I have 2 basic common sense guidelines about these relationships:
I enjoy relationships with mature (smart, independent, college educated) women.
I stay away from women in desperate situations.
I don抰 lie about my intentions.
Anyway, these are just my opinions. Good luck with your situation and enjoy.
ER
6 months ago..I asked one of my GF to live with me. I don't know what i was thinking that time I asked her. She did, and we have lived like a couple up to today. She is 24, fresh college graduate, very pretty, tall, kind, loving and a more than perfect bed-mate. She is half my age but she does not care. I felt stupid doing this that time since i had an ongoing affair with 3 other girls which i have to cut.
My GF knows I am married with kids, but my family do not live with me in Shanghai. My dilemna is I have fallen for this girl. During our stay, she never requested for anything (specially money). We seldom go out for nightlife since she would rather just cuddle with me rather than waste money in bars or clubs. Our only luxury is ehavingdinner once in a while outside but these would not be fancy places. She takes very good care of me and pampers me everyday the whole time we were together. We only had one stormy encounter when she saw an SMS from an ex-GF asking if we can meet . She was fuming mad, she said she can accept if the message was from my wife, but not from another girl.
This rosy dream will end soon. She has to go home back to Dalian. Her parents let her stay on in Shanghai so she can take her CET exam which she did last week-end. She quit her job 6 months ago to attend an english school full time (which she even paid herself) and prepare for the exam. She had run out of alibi to stay on living in Shanghai (Her parents does not know about us) and she has to go back home before Chinese New Year. We do not want to talk about this issue, because when we do...we both clam up in eerie silence. We will say good-bye..We have to say good-bye..as this relationship was not supposed to get to this.
Guys, suggest you continue your mongering ways and never get too attached to one xiaojie, specially if you are married. I have had more than my share of GF's in Shanghai...it was really fun, but law of chances dictates with the number comes the risk that somebody will just get you hooked.
I am looking forward though to going back to my mongering days, it will be very soon!
Hitman,
Only advice is BE CAREFUL! Chinese girls can be a devil when jealousy creeps in. I Know.
Tinybobo1002
02-26-05, 05:50
Dog Day, me too. I have given up freebie hunting. Those girls brought me lots of hassles and potential threats to my family and business. I prefer pay and play.
Mock A Bee
03-01-05, 10:55
Tatyu, Dogday,
I hear you guys. These girls are so eager to get hooked up, they can be like pitbulls! Though, not all the freebies out there want gifts. I am working on two freebies right now and thus far they are quite normal. I have never heard either one hint at a gift. I take them to regular places for dinner and drinks nothing extravagent.
I have run into a few pre-freebies who were into asking me for meals, trips to the hair salon, etc, and they turned out to be a bit too money grubbing for my taste.
I agree never get attached to any freebie! You are just asking for trouble.
I still like freebies even though they are not necessarily any cheaper than p4p.
MAB
OldAsiaHand
03-02-05, 17:22
I have seen too many horror stories with married guys breaking up with freebies. Threats, demands for large sums of money, tantrums, stalking, calling the wife; just to name a few. I agree with tatyu. P4P is the way to go if you have a family, regardless of where they may live.
Just my POV.
OAH
Does anyone have experience with ladies from "funinchina.com"?
Mock A Bee
03-04-05, 05:45
Does anyone have experience with ladies from "funinchina.com"?The funinchina.com website alludes to office worker girls who can work for you on a short term basis and do favors on the side, and that is not said directly. Just suggested, and my understanding is that is all you will get.
They post nice photos, sexy, very cute girls, but that is about all they are good for. I have heard that some girls who are posted have no idea that the website makes such allusions to its clientel. I think many girls work for the site with the honest intention of working as office girls who are hired to be tour guides.
If you find out otherwise, please post it, they may have figured out doing favors for hefty tips is more lucrative.
MAB
Does anyone have experience with ladies from "funinchina.com"?You won't need it. There will be plenty of people who speak English far better than you speak putonghua. Don't be shy. Talk to people, many will want to use their English in conversation. If you are very inexperienced, spend a lot of time reading the board so you know what kinds of scams to look out for.
Tequila Kid
03-13-05, 18:59
Noted several cautionary comments about freebies causing trouble after break up with married guys.
Are Chinese women more sensitive about this than other women?
Would they behave the same with local Chinese married man?
Sometimes freebies are hard to resist.
ER
Sugar Baba
03-18-05, 11:02
I have a GF now who I have insisted on paying each time we meet. She refused to accept funds on two different occassions, but I still managed to shove the bills in to her coat pocket.
Not wanting money, immediately turned in to sending me short messages saying she loved me. Never responeded to those love messages. Each subsequent time we met, I acted as if nothing had been said.
Each time she visits my place she cleans everything in sight. She came over with a mop and broom early on in our relationship, and those two items became the most treasured things for her in the apartment. They probably gave her a sense of ownership, in that she is the only one who takes care of me like a good wifey should.
She once found a hair pin left by one of my massage girls. She was upset - sulked and refused to give me head. She said that I can sleep with other girls, as long as she doesn't find out about it. I asked her what would happen if she did - gave me a cold stare, grabbed by crotch and did a slicing motion with her hand. Scary.
Been with her 6 months now and we have slept together on 10 different occassions. Have been seeing her less and less the past 2 months. Definitely have to let this one go.
Girl friends, even the ones I paid in order to keep at a distance, are no good. Sex can be great, because they will go all out to please you, but the potential damage and baggage is not worth it.
Only way I will do freebies in the future is by thoroughly my identity so that there is absolutely no way I can be found when things go wrong. Need to get another sim card or phone, only to be used for mongering. Need to set up a series of safe houses that can be shut down without any connection to myself. Lastly, need to buy a jockstrap with a metal cup, to keep my banana attached.
Stay with the pros
Shanghai Noon #2
03-18-05, 12:00
If you are thinking about supporting a Chinese woman, don't. Of course this may apply toward women of other nationalities. However, my current experience only applies for a chinese girl I met. I met her in a BBS here in Shanghai. She was a cute girl of 20 and I was with 2 other mongers. I didn't take her and neither did my friends that day. The next day I did take her and she was nice, nothing spectacular, just ok. I did feel sorry for her since this was her first time doing p4p (at least according to her). I wanted to see if I could help her find a better future. I had a friend here in Shanghai that had some connection so I got her enrolled in the University here learning English. I bought her a phone, bike and clothes. Of course the tuition and board also cost a bit of money. I thought, what the heck might as well see if I could help a person have a better life. Well, you heard of the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", this applied perfectly in this case.
I spent the next 6 months putting up with her having her phone stolen, her mistakenly sending me sms for her "potential sugar daddy", her fighting with her classmates, her running away from school (she wasn't happy with her classmates). Finally, I had enough when she was answering calls from her new boyfriend checking up on her in my place while I stand by(3 phone calls). I told her to leave and we were formally broke up. All I can say is that most of the women here is very very spoiled and you would be foolish( I am the biggest fool, of course) to think that you can make a difference by giving them your financial and personal help. This might be due to the fact that most families here only have 1 child and spoiled them rotten. Anyway, just wanted to share my humbled experience with everyone here so that hopefully you can avoid the pitfalls, of course this is just my experience and you might still be tempted to try your luck. Good luck in that case. :-)
Mock A Bee
03-19-05, 06:58
Re: Freebie experience of Shanghai Noon #2 and #3062
The younger the freebie the more immature they tend to be. I try to meet freebies who are very secure in the way they make their living. Professional women in their 30's tend to be more willing to just have a no-strings-attached freebie relationship because they need the attention more than the money. There are also numerous 30 something women out there who are desperately looking for a decent boyfriend. Many Chinese males are very intimidated by these women, which is a big part of the problem.
And has been said before, never let them live with you! I know someone who has a real hottie living with him. She made quick work of him by moving in within a month. I think he was using the head in his pants to think that one through. Now he admits she is boring and has "let her hair down" because she doesn't have to pursue him anymore (I think that is also known as getting married). She is just not the little vixen she once was, and now he is thinking about how to get rid of her!
As well, if you feel sorry for these young girls who have a tough life, don't help them by giving them money or gifts, they won't learn how to be self sufficient. They need skills to get a decent job, as well as self discipline. It is really easy to feel sorry for these girls, but you can't help them unless they are determined to help themselves and not use money as a crutch.
MAB
Sugar Baba
03-20-05, 02:46
Good advice about the freebies in their 30's. Agree they tend to be more secure and willing to do the no stings attached relationship. But they just aren't the same as the crazy, young, unstable 20 yr olds that are so fresh and sweet.
In general asian women tend to age better than western counterparts, so asian women in their 30's can still pass for mid 20's. But at the moment of truth, the older gals are just a little looser than the young ones who are tight all around.
Definitely risk involved when dealing with the younger freebies. Just a matter of managing the situation using the big rather than the little head.
Sugar Baba
03-20-05, 02:55
Good advice about the freebies in their 30's. Agree they tend to be more secure and willing to do the no stings attached relationship. But they just aren't the same as the crazy, young, unstable 20 yr olds that are so fresh and sweet.
In general asian women tend to age better than western counterparts, so asian women in their 30's can still pass for mid 20's. But at the moment of truth, the older gals are just a little looser than the young ones who are tight all around.
Definitely risk involved when dealing with the younger freebies. Just a matter of managing the situation using the big rather than the little head.
Here is my crazy-chinese-girl story:
I travelled around Yangshuo and Yunnan with a 23 y.o. chinese girl from Shenzhen. She was very nice and polite and fun at first but after a few days I realized she was spoiled and bad tempered. But she was very good looking and I wanted to get in her pants. I could control her moods by telling her how smart and beautiful she was and not disagreeing with her on anything. She had just broken up with a rich chinese guy who cheated on her so she left him.
We were sharing a bed and getting drunk and kissing but no sex ever. She wouldn't let my hands roam anywhere near her private parts. I was paying for everything for her as we travelled around, even though she had money to pay her way. This went on for almost 4 weeks, but every day I stupidly thought I was going to get some action that night if I tried again. Finally I got tired of it and decided to make some comment that she wouldn't like, and let it explode into a big fight so I could have an excuse to leave. It worked we got into a big argument and back in the room I started packing my bag. She went fucking psycho on me, she came at me punching and screaming and kicking, waking up the entire guesthouse probably. I calmed her down but she was crazed, threatening to have me beaten up and killed. Since I was a foreigner and she was chinese, she said she could do anything to me. Then she said if I give her 1000RMB that she would not call the police. I said fine, call the police.
She had me cornered and spent all night pacing around the room telling me all the bad things she was going to do to me. She was going to tell the police that I got drunk and forced myself on her and hit her. She had marks on her arms and broken fingernails where she had tried to attack me (but I never hurt her at all). She was going to get the police to throw me in jail and beat me up. I got a little scared at this point but I decided to just tell the truth to the police and hope for the best. I really thought I might end up in jail or have to pay alot to get out of this one.
The Dali police station opened at 7:30am and she called them and they came over. They did not speak any english, luckily I speak enough chinese to get by. She told her fictional lying version of the story and I calmly told the truth. They saw she was crazy and didn't believe her. They scolded her pretty badly, until she was in tears. I said, please let me pack my bag now and get on a bus out of here right now, and don't let her get at me. 30 minutes later I was on a bus out of there. Whew, managed to escape disaster on that one. I will definitely be sticking to P4P for for a while... sometimes freebies are not worth it. My quest for free sex got me 4 weeks of no sex!
Sugar Baba
03-20-05, 08:32
What is it with these drop dead beauties. They think they can get anything thing they want because they are model pin-up girl gorgeous. Pain in the ass, and usually a bad lay. They are too good to do anything that would give you pleasure. Definitely no rimming with tongue and lips that feel they are only good for sipping on champagne.
Ugly girls are the best. They have great attitudes, and know how to really make up in technique and enthusiasm, what they lack in looks. The key is to find gals who think themselves to be ugly, when in fact they are true mud flowers, waiting to be discovered.
Stay with ugly and average - and rarely be disappointed by little or no sex.
China 69,
The sheer stupidity of your girl amazes me. Chinese police don't want to deal with foreigners. We're more work for them. They can't just lock us up and throw away the key. They have to notify our embassies and a bunch of other crap and they don't want to deal with it.
I had a friend get into a bar brawl in Shanghai. He beat the crap out of a guy and there wasn't a mark on him. There were witnesses and everything saying what happened. The police asked my friend for his passport. He told them he couldn't give it to them because it was the property of the US State Department and they would have to ask the USSD. They questioned him for about ten minutes. The police then took the other guy to the station and told my friend to go home.
Tequila Kid
03-21-05, 01:25
MAB,
My observations are same as yours. The young girls from hardship backgrounds do not make the best long term companions. They have firm bodies but poor English, lack education or real prospects beyond what you can give them. I would never consider a serious relationship with working girl young or old.
Here is my story; I have met several professional, confident Chinese women. They are starved for attention.
My current girlfriend is early 30抯, university educated, has her own car, often pays for dinner and buys me presents. She has a good job, (assistant GM at a design firm), travels throughout China for her job and speaks decent English.
She is smart and confident, a combination that make her unattractive to most Chinese men. It抯 great to spend the weekend with her.
Living together is not an option as I am only town every 4 to 6 weeks.
I don抰 know what our long term prospects are. I know sooner or later, our relationship will come to an end, hopefully a natural winding down.
The postings on this board are full of good advice and experiences.
Always treat the women young or old, cute or ugly - with respect. It抯 the least we can do. The young ones are always available for the quick fuck.
The older professional types are great for companionship, culture, travel and lots of fucking.
ER
Mock A Bee
03-21-05, 04:52
Re: China 69's crazy freebie
China 69, not to make light of the trouble with your freebie, but your story was pretty funny! I know what it is like to have an encounter with a crazy girl.
I am glad you stuck to your guns though! Most of these girls are powerless unless they have some serious mafia or police (actually what is the difference? - none!) to back them up. If they are freelance, they dont' have a mamasan or papasan.
I had a P4P ktv girl come over to my apartment. She was brand new to the business, young and tasty, and she must have been thinking "wow, this is great! 2,000rmb and all I have to do is be his girlfriend for the night". Well, she was too new! She had very little experience in the business, and equally little experience with sex. Anyway, to make a long story short, she stayed the night, and I gave her 500rmb. She started to go crazy on me! I figured I would give her what her performance was worth. To get her the hell out, I threw her 300rmb more and physically threw her out.
I was wondering if she was going to give me trouble, call her mamasan or something or who knows what! I told her I didn't have any more money, and she started looking around for stuff for me to give her instead. She said "ok, how about this iron? blah blah blah". I thought "what the hell are you going to do with an iron?" Anyway, she was a little girl, who thought all girls get 2,000rmb. She wasn't even close to a 2,000rmb hottie. Fortunately she was just a stupid little girl... with a tasty body!
Live and learn!
MAB
Sugar Baba
03-21-05, 11:17
I just got back from an afternoon of fun with my mop and broom freebie. She didn't offer to clean the apartment today - appears to be a change in attitude.
Nevertheless, tremendous entire body down to my pinky toes tongue bath for 45 minutes - finished off with a nice release - the kind that makes you want to sleep for at least an hour afterwards.
Looks like she has wised up. She must have come to the conclusion that there is no hope for a long term relationship with me. She received a phone call while we were dressing after showering - from a male admirerer / customer. Good girl. Earn while you can and be professional all the way.
I think I'm off the hook. Can play without worrying about paying unnneccesary and unpleasant dues.
Love China.
What's everybody's view on bareback BJs and STD?
I such a weaking for it but always wear a rubber when it's time for full service.
Bill
Tequila Kid
04-29-05, 01:40
Bill,
To clarify BBBJ is women is giving you head w/o condom on little brother.
I believe you are safe, unlikely you can get AIDs or other STD from BBBJ.
I am not an expert. Its what I recall from research a couple of years ago.
For FS, I would use condom.
ER
Catching HIV or any other STD basically comes down to acceptable risk. I think there are some people here who think that if you have sex with an HIV positive girl, you will automatically get AIDS. The same people seem to think that wearing a condom gives you some kind of immunity from the disease and that you will never get it. Both are false.
I posted earlier that the odds of getting infected with HIV from a single encounter of normal vaginal sex with an asymptomatic HIV positive female is about 1 in 500. Wearing a condom will drop those odds tenfold to 1 in 5000. Each person has to decide for himself how much risk is acceptable for him. In China, the estimated number of infections is about 1.2 million. About 1 in 4 infected is female. The odds of having an encounter with an HIV infected woman is about 1/5000. If you stay away from Henan and Yunnan girls, you should drop those odds by about 2X-3X. So what exactly are the odds of getting infected if you only have sex with women and stay away from Henan and Yunnan girls? I'd say it's roughly about 1/5,000,000 if you don't wear a condom. If you wear one, it's about 1/50,000,000. What do these numbers mean? Lets say you have 3 guys. Each of them screws 5,000,000 women each without a condom. There is a greater than 85% certainty that 2 of them will have HIV.
If you only practice oral sex, the odds drop even more dramatically. Not enough research has been done on this particular activity to glean any meaningful numbers. Don't think it's impossible though. It's very possible to get HIV from oral sex. There have been reported cases of lesbian transmission, interfamilial transmission via toothbrushes, and also transmission from HIV positive dentists, all of which are considered lower risk than a blowjob.
Considering the long odds, some of you may think it's ok to not wear a condom. NOPE. Lotteries have even longer odds, but you know what? Somebody's always wins. I personally don't worry about getting HIV/AIDS from Chinese girls. That doesn't mean I'm not afraid of other things though. There are a lot of other nasties that are a lot more prevalent than AIDS/HIV. In Guangdong Province, where I am, there are very high incidences of both chlamydia and gonnorhea, I think somewhere in the 3% range. I vaguely remember reading a source that said syphillis is making a comeback in this region. All these diseases have much higher rates of transmission than HIV. It's true that they're easily curable, but that doesn't mean it's ok to get it or to spread it around. Of course that doesn't mean that if you wear a condom, you're automatically protected from getting anything or transmitting anything. It will however, reduce your risk factor by 10X or so, which is enough of a reason to wear it.
Frank Booth
04-29-05, 04:44
Bill,
I always read that many pathogens that thrive in the reproductive organs don't do as well in saliva, and I mongered accordingly, with a clean record for a long time. On a recent visit with my physician, he changed my thinking.
He got vocal about Hepatitus B, and indicated it is highly transmissable through any body fluids inlcluding saliva (this means kissing, BBBJ, sharing toothbrushes, etc). Knowing that I travel a lot and enjoy women the way I do, he strongly suggested I get a vaccine. I can't get into the detail on this and other STD's he warned me about, as I am not a physician, and I won't be a hypocrite and tell anyone get a vaccine, or change their behavior.
I can say that the longer I have mongered, the more comfortable I have become with the hobby. My luck has built confidence. I do things now I would never have thought of in my early AMPing days, and have been very fortunate.
The same goes for some of the girls in the profession, who grow comfortable with clients and increasingly push the envelope with risky behavior. The fact that some STD's are symptom-free produces a false sense of security and eventually, a greater chance of transmission.
Our community is populated by guys who see more girls than average, and the girls we see are seeing more guys than average. If there is a small chance of catching something, it will likely be by someone who is in our statistical group. I don't plan to quit mongering, but BB anything is probably not such a great idea no matter how lucky I have been.
Your question sounds as though you may be at the point where you start doing more with these girls, and all I can say is to give it more thought and hopefully more WSGers will chime in with better detail, and their experiences. I only saw my doctor last week, so I have not decided to get a vaccine, but I am getting a lot more interested in different brands of condoms.
Good luck.
Sstudent01
04-29-05, 08:21
Bill,
I always read that many pathogens that thrive in the reproductive organs don't do as well in saliva, and I mongered accordingly, with a clean record for a long time. On a recent visit with my physician, he changed my thinking.
He got vocal about Hepatitus B, and indicated it is highly transmissable through any body fluids inlcluding saliva (this means kissing, BBBJ, sharing toothbrushes, etc). Knowing that I travel a lot and enjoy women the way I do, he strongly suggested I get a vaccine. I can't get into the detail on this and other STD's he warned me about, as I am not a physician, and I won't be a hypocrite and tell anyone get a vaccine, or change their behavior.
I can say that the longer I have mongered, the more comfortable I have become with the hobby. My luck has built confidence. I do things now I would never have thought of in my early AMPing days, and have been very fortunate.
The same goes for some of the girls in the profession, who grow comfortable with clients and increasingly push the envelope with risky behavior. The fact that some STD's are symptom-free produces a false sense of security and eventually, a greater chance of transmission.
Our community is populated by guys who see more girls than average, and the girls we see are seeing more guys than average. If there is a small chance of catching something, it will likely be by someone who is in our statistical group. I don't plan to quit mongering, but BB anything is probably not such a great idea no matter how lucky I have been.
Your question sounds as though you may be at the point where you start doing more with these girls, and all I can say is to give it more thought and hopefully more WSGers will chime in with better detail, and their experiences. I only saw my doctor last week, so I have not decided to get a vaccine, but I am getting a lot more interested in different brands of condoms.
Good luck.Hi,
I just wondering about the vaccine Hepatitus B, if I done it like around 8 years ago, do I still need to be vaccine now?
And what brand of condom u recommended to be good, strong, and safe.
Thank you very much.
El Frances
04-29-05, 09:35
From my recent talks with a doctor, the risk is quasi-nil to get aids from a BJ, as saliva doesn't convey the virus. However, it may be the case if the girl has some blood in the mouth, which may happen if she brushes her teeth too strongly before the BJ.
All other STDs, including herpes or syphillis can be transmitted via BJ. Ask the mongolian girls at Maggie's who are usually very smart concerning these matters. Most of them wouldn't do BJ without condom.
Personaly, i only get BJ from girls I know they don't suck many people. I would never get a BJ from a BJ bar in Bangkok or a BBS where girls suck many guys. Just think about the hundreds of cocks thse girls suck in one year!
Hepathis B vaccine is strongly recommended for every monger. Syphillis testing every 6 month is also recommended.
Now, it's up to you !
When my doctor heard that I was a regular traveller to China, she insisted that I get the Hepathis B shots. She's Chinese practicing western medicine in the USA and practically all her patients are mainlanders. I guess that's says alot about Hepathis B in China.
Anyway, got my third third Hepathis B shot just last month. Now I have the the full immunization. (damn it. if I can get over my stuttering problem problem).
Back to China but not soon enough to catch up with Cronin (that horny toad).
See you in June everybody.
Bill
Frank Booth
05-01-05, 15:53
Hi,
I just wondering about the vaccine Hepatitus B, if I done it like around 8 years ago, do I still need to be vaccine now?
And what brand of condom u recommended to be good, strong, and safe.
Thank you very much.
Ask your physician, man, I have no idea how long a vaccine lasts. As far as condoms, I always used whatever is around and am just paying attention to brands. Anyone have any suggestions?
Lustforthrust
05-01-05, 17:51
2/3rds of all Hep C carriers are male Chinese.
In fact I can smell it on them - Chinese men from Hong Kong (older men) to KL (young ones too) and mainland China (all ages).
El Frances
05-04-05, 10:04
To whom it may be usefull!
Maybe it may be usefull to precise differences between different forms:
- hepatitis A, the most known form. Common in China, it is usually transmitted via food or water contaminated by excrements, and eventually via sexual intercourse. Although it is usually not dangerous, vaccination may be usefull.
- hepatitis B, is usually transmitted via fluids such as saliva. The virus may be present for years without any significant consequences, but can sometimes be deadly on long term. There is no cure for this virus, so it's better to be vaccinated.
- hepatis C, is supposedly only transmitted via blood. It can be deadly sometimes, but can be cured in 60 % of cases. There is no vaccine.
There is also A D version, similar to B, and an E version.
Cheers!
Tinybobo1002
05-04-05, 20:19
2/3rds of all Hep C carriers are male Chinese.
In fact I can smell it on them - Chinese men from Hong Kong (older men) to KL (young ones too) and mainland China (all ages).
Member 2702, can you really smell Hep C on Chinese men? You suggested a very good answer why we sometimes get hassles in China. It is because of our attitude.
Lustforthrust
05-06-05, 09:18
Its Hepatitis B (not C) and 75% (not 66%) of all instances are male Chinese.
And yes, you can smell it (provided you haven't killed your sense of smell by being a disgusting smoker or sticking around these losers).
In fact the smelling of wrists for PLA wanna-be recruits is the first of many SOPs.
Mock A Bee
05-31-05, 02:22
Its Hepatitis B (not C) and 75% (not 66%) of all instances are male Chinese.
And yes, you can smell it (provided you haven't killed your sense of smell by being a disgusting smoker or sticking around these losers).
In fact the smelling of wrists for PLA wanna-be recruits is the first of many SOPs.
If you smelled it, how would you know what it smelled like? Anyone have experience smelling Hep B?
MAB
I just got back from an afternoon of fun with my mop and broom freebie. She didn't offer to clean the apartment today - appears to be a change in attitude.
Nevertheless, tremendous entire body down to my pinky toes tongue bath for 45 minutes - finished off with a nice release - the kind that makes you want to sleep for at least an hour afterwards.
Looks like she has wised up. She must have come to the conclusion that there is no hope for a long term relationship with me. She received a phone call while we were dressing after showering - from a male admirerer / customer. Good girl. Earn while you can and be professional all the way.
I think I'm off the hook. Can play without worrying about paying unnneccesary and unpleasant dues.
Love China.
What a dumb cynical cheap charlie.
This girl out sizes you in any and every way ...
Cebu Local
06-02-05, 22:16
I met someone during my last trip to Shanghai and We really hit it off because We discovered,We had several things in common.She is a chinese girl,mid 20 s who was educated in Canada coincidentally at the same University I went to in Vancouver.She holds a managerial position in the the travel industry ,where I also own a Travel business.She shares my passion for travel and saves up for her travels.For example She toured Europe last Spring Festival by herself and is saving up for the Maldives next year.She by her own admission is a banana.She looks chinese,but feels completely western and does not have traditional chinese attitudes,sanitary habits etc.She is more fond of french and italian food then chinese food.I am in my late 30 s,obviously Canadian,owner of a travel agency and part owner of a hotel in Cebu.I dont mind having a long term relationship,But I have been reading all the warnings about Chinese women.Money wise I dont need to give her a cent because She is well paid.For example She is paying for her trip to Cebu this October holiday,But I am taking care of her hotel,domestic flights etc in the Philippines.Business wise We match being in the same industry talking the same language etc.Culturally Her 5 years living in Canada in my home city allows us to discuss Hockey,Canadian food,Beer etc.Since I am on the verge of starting a long term relationship,Can I get some advice and opinions??Except those telling me not too push through and the 3 F s.Is it going to be a bumpy road ahead???Jealousy is not a problem since I have had Filipina Girlfriends and they are possesive.Anyway hope somebody who has been in a LTR with a chinese girl can help with advice what I am going to face ?
I met someone during my last trip to Shanghai and We really hit it off because We discovered,We had several things in common.She is a chinese girl,mid 20 s who was educated in Canada coincidentally at the same University I went to in Vancouver.She holds a managerial position in the the travel industry ,where I also own a Travel business.She shares my passion for travel and saves up for her travels.For example She toured Europe last Spring Festival by herself and is saving up for the Maldives next year.She by her own admission is a banana.She looks chinese,but feels completely western and does not have traditional chinese attitudes,sanitary habits etc.She is more fond of french and italian food then chinese food.I am in my late 30 s,obviously Canadian,owner of a travel agency and part owner of a hotel in Cebu.I dont mind having a long term relationship,But I have been reading all the warnings about Chinese women.Money wise I dont need to give her a cent because She is well paid.For example She is paying for her trip to Cebu this October holiday,But I am taking care of her hotel,domestic flights etc in the Philippines.Business wise We match being in the same industry talking the same language etc.Culturally Her 5 years living in Canada in my home city allows us to discuss Hockey,Canadian food,Beer etc.Since I am on the verge of starting a long term relationship,Can I get some advice and opinions??Except those telling me not too push through and the 3 F s.Is it going to be a bumpy road ahead???Jealousy is not a problem since I have had Filipina Girlfriends and they are possesive.Anyway hope somebody who has been in a LTR with a chinese girl can help with advice what I am going to face ?
It sounds like you hit a homer as far as compatibility goes. I cannot see why you have a question. Go for it and good luck!
Good catch for you and good catch for her. Go for it and best wish!
I met someone during my last trip to Shanghai and We really hit it off because We discovered,We had several things in common.She is a chinese girl,mid 20 s who was educated in Canada coincidentally at the same University I went to in Vancouver.She holds a managerial position in the the travel industry ,where I also own a Travel business.She shares my passion for travel and saves up for her travels.For example She toured Europe last Spring Festival by herself and is saving up for the Maldives next year.She by her own admission is a banana.She looks chinese,but feels completely western and does not have traditional chinese attitudes,sanitary habits etc.She is more fond of french and italian food then chinese food.I am in my late 30 s,obviously Canadian,owner of a travel agency and part owner of a hotel in Cebu.I dont mind having a long term relationship,But I have been reading all the warnings about Chinese women.Money wise I dont need to give her a cent because She is well paid.For example She is paying for her trip to Cebu this October holiday,But I am taking care of her hotel,domestic flights etc in the Philippines.Business wise We match being in the same industry talking the same language etc.Culturally Her 5 years living in Canada in my home city allows us to discuss Hockey,Canadian food,Beer etc.Since I am on the verge of starting a long term relationship,Can I get some advice and opinions??Except those telling me not too push through and the 3 F s.Is it going to be a bumpy road ahead???Jealousy is not a problem since I have had Filipina Girlfriends and they are possesive.Anyway hope somebody who has been in a LTR with a chinese girl can help with advice what I am going to face ?
Sounds real good to me. You shouldn't be on the board anymore.
Young and smart. Mmmmm Mmmmm Good. It sound like you're well-to-do, so nothing wrong with paying for some of her expensives. It's the right thing to do.
Best wishes (and very jealous)
Bill
I met someone during my last trip to Shanghai and We really hit it off because We discovered,We had several things in common.She is a chinese girl,mid 20 s who was educated in Canada coincidentally at the same University I went to in Vancouver.She holds a managerial position in the the travel industry ,where I also own a Travel business.She shares my passion for travel and saves up for her travels.For example She toured Europe last Spring Festival by herself and is saving up for the Maldives next year.She by her own admission is a banana.She looks chinese,but feels completely western and does not have traditional chinese attitudes,sanitary habits etc.She is more fond of french and italian food then chinese food.I am in my late 30 s,obviously Canadian,owner of a travel agency and part owner of a hotel in Cebu.I dont mind having a long term relationship,But I have been reading all the warnings about Chinese women.Money wise I dont need to give her a cent because She is well paid.For example She is paying for her trip to Cebu this October holiday,But I am taking care of her hotel,domestic flights etc in the Philippines.Business wise We match being in the same industry talking the same language etc.Culturally Her 5 years living in Canada in my home city allows us to discuss Hockey,Canadian food,Beer etc.Since I am on the verge of starting a long term relationship,Can I get some advice and opinions??Except those telling me not too push through and the 3 F s.Is it going to be a bumpy road ahead???Jealousy is not a problem since I have had Filipina Girlfriends and they are possesive.Anyway hope somebody who has been in a LTR with a chinese girl can help with advice what I am going to face ?
Cebu Local
06-03-05, 22:10
I wanted to say Thanks for ypur feedback.I was just hesitating because of all of the horror stories I have been reading about Chinese Girlfriends.Glad to know that you guys agree to go for it.Best Regards
Cebu Local..
One warning...
If you are single...This could be it.
Smart, pretty Chinese women can sweep you off your feet!
Jealous too...
arf arf
OldAsiaHand
06-05-05, 03:40
Cebu Local,
It also sounds to me like you have found a great match for yourself. I also support relationships with Chinese women since I am also from N. America and married to a Chinese woman for nearly 10 years. And, you cannot blame any woman in the world for wanting a better life. However, I urge you to use your common sense to look beyond the surface. Things are not always as you see them in China. You sound like a rationale guy. I am sure you will get to know her better before you plunge. One more thing, although she seems western-minded (Shanghainese are more western than other parts of China), there are cultural differences. IMHO, you need to be open-minded and able to compromise to deal with this.
Just my POV.
OAH
Cebu Local
06-05-05, 05:09
Cebu Local,
It also sounds to me like you have found a great match for yourself. I also support relationships with Chinese women since I am also from N. America and married to a Chinese woman for nearly 10 years. And, you cannot blame any woman in the world for wanting a better life. However, I urge you to use your common sense to look beyond the surface. Things are not always as you see them in China. You sound like a rationale guy. I am sure you will get to know her better before you plunge. One more thing, although she seems western-minded (Shanghainese are more western than other parts of China), there are cultural differences. IMHO, you need to be open-minded and able to compromise to deal with this.
Just my POV.
OAH
Thanks,I plan to get to know her better,thats why the trips are planned outside China ,to see If she is ready to live a life outside china and how she deals with it.A bit of advice though,Can I expect to be sending support to her family???Filipinas are like that and I am kinda resigned to SOME financial support,But not Totally support.Are they possesive and jealous???Had Filipinas before and I can live with that.But more jealous,I dont think I can handle.Anyway Would appreciate insights to life living with a Chinese Woman.Filipinas are friendly,Loving etc,But have very little concept of Long range planning ,Saving or investing.I find Chinese more pragmatic and practical.Best Regards
Mock A Bee
06-06-05, 03:46
Cebu Local,
My initial advice would be to take your time.
I have known many people who are swept off their feet, the sex is great, great compatability and they get married in no time. However, as OAH suggests, things may not be as they may seem.
You should definitely make sure you look beyond the surface. China is full of surface glitter. Like when shopping for fake goods, the goods pretty much look like real Gucci or Louis Vuitton, but if you check below the surface a bit, you get vinyl not leather.
She sounds like a great match, but you definitely marry her entire family not just the woman. Keep this in mind.
Financial support for the parents and rest of the family depends on the family. Some require it, some don't. Some parents may see you as a rich foreign guy so they may demand support. I know a guy whose future in-laws demanded that he buy a big apartment in Beijing in his fiance's name first.
Make sure you don't end up getting more than you bargained for. There are all kinds of horror stories (true ones!) out there so be careful.
My two fen.
MAB
Cebu Local
06-13-05, 10:14
Thanks so far for the advice given,I plan to take it real slow,but She basically blocked of all her leaves and vacations to be with me.We just spent the weekend together in Hong Kong with a Day trip to Macau.There is a daily flight from Cebu to HK,and several direct flights daily between HK and Shanghai,October Holiday is her first trip to the Philippines,where I will take her to Cebu,Boracay and Palawan.Spring Festival next year will be in the Maldives.I am hoping all this time spent together outside China will make her true colors come out.But I have made it clear My life is outside China though I may visit regularly and I have no plans to ever buy property or invest there.Basically No Homes for potential In laws and while potential relatives can VISIT Canada as my guest,Thats about as far as I will go,I am not going to SPONSOR anybody or plan to in the near future.I hope it is OK to make things clear early.
Cebu,
I think you are on the right track and have the right idea. Good luck.
LA
Bob Builder
06-13-05, 15:42
Cebu local,
You could be onto a great thing and will make me jealous for a long time to come or you could be a very big fish on the end of a very long fishing line.
Shanghianese women are famous long line fisherwomen, Wendy Deng.
And just becos you make spell it out in no definite terms and she may agree to you face, it doesn't mean she is telling the truth or habor some hope that there may be more to it.
How many times have you heard these stories (from myself included) where a guy makes it clear to the woman that the relationship is just for fun or sex with her agreeing and then a messy ending. Doesn't just happen in China, its a worldwide thing. For some reason they can't accept being just a great shag.
Cebu Local
06-14-05, 01:33
Cebu local,
You could be onto a great thing and will make me jealous for a long time to come or you could be a very big fish on the end of a very long fishing line.
Shanghianese women are famous long line fisherwomen, Wendy Deng.
And just becos you make spell it out in no definite terms and she may agree to you face, it doesn't mean she is telling the truth or habor some hope that there may be more to it.
How many times have you heard these stories (from myself included) where a guy makes it clear to the woman that the relationship is just for fun or sex with her agreeing and then a messy ending. Doesn't just happen in China, its a worldwide thing. For some reason they can't accept being just a great shag.
Actually I am pushing 40 and I kinda dont mind getting caught IF she is the one,But I want a LTR on my terms or at least on mutually acceptable terms.Back home a well off single foriegner has me fighting off the Filipinas,But Filipinas generally are too fun loving and laid back for me,they mostly have no concept of long range planning,investing etc.Thats why Chinese Pragmatism is like a breath of fresh air.Hoping for the best and maybe see over the next few months IF she is the ONE.Thanks again for your insights
OldAsiaHand
06-21-05, 13:13
Shanghianese women are famous long line fisherwomen, Wendy Deng.
Bob,
I thought Wendy Deng was from Beijing. Anyway, whatever bait she put on the hook paid off big time.
OAH
Cebu Local
06-21-05, 23:23
Bob,
I thought Wendy Deng was from Beijing. Anyway, whatever bait she put on the hook paid off big time.
OAH
Actually I read the book 2 days ago and She was born in Beijing and grew up in Shanghai.I agree that they are great long line fishermen.I was just talking to my Shanghai "friend" on the phone for 2 hours yesterday and We were talking about the the Bible of all things.The discussion was about certain scriptures but what made this amazing was this was coming from an officially athiest chinese.She started studying Christianity 3 weeks ago.This goes back to my opening up 2 months ago that I am a practicing though obviously not perfect Christian.Her reason was she wanted to understand my philosophy and value system better,It is things like that are making me fall for her.She was also talking about her excitement to hit the powdery sand beaches of Palawan and trying out Snorkeling,Jet Skis and having servants at her beck and call on her upcoming trip to the Philippines.I am fully aware that to a Chinese girl living an upper class life is very tempting and that is why she is trying hard to land me.But so far if she keeps this up,It is working.Thanks again for all the inputs so far
Juno Audio
06-22-05, 17:39
Culturally Her 5 years living in Canada in my home city allows us to discuss Hockey,Canadian food,Beer etc.If she is in her mid twenties, then she still have almost twenty years of Chinese in her. The westerness of her is on the surface, I think the more you'll get to know her, and the more time you spend, you will see the Chinese side creeping up. I know because I moved to north America when I was a teenager, and lived there for more than 30 years. I still find myself think and doing things the Chinese way sometimes.
Good Luck
JA
Cebu Local,
I just want to put you on RED Alert regarding your Beijing/Shanghai chinese lady friend. They will go all out and sacrifice themselves just to catch you, BUT, once the wedding is over - you are screwed. I have a sister who lives in Guam and they know a wealthy chinese guy who married a Shanghai woman. This man is a recent widower and has grown up children. Before the marriage, Shanghai lady is the perfect woman. Afterwards, she is causing a big rift between him and his children.
The chinese have a saying: Shanghai women are very dangerous. Their reputation is very well deserved.
By all means, have fun with her. BUT dont marry her. Just my 2 cents.
Cebu Local
06-22-05, 22:46
If she is in her mid twenties, then she still have almost twenty years of Chinese in her. The westerness of her is on the surface, I think the more you'll get to know her, and the more time you spend, you will see the Chinese side creeping up. I know because I moved to north America when I was a teenager, and lived there for more than 30 years. I still find myself think and doing things the Chinese way sometimes.
Good Luck
JA
JA
Thanks for pointing that out,But maybe that is what is fascinating to me about her.The chinese and western mix,I dont expect her to be a western woman but at least she will not be at a loss functioning in a western society.Much more then say a BBS girl
Cebu Local
06-22-05, 22:55
Cebu Local,
I just want to put you on RED Alert regarding your Beijing/Shanghai chinese lady friend. They will go all out and sacrifice themselves just to catch you, BUT, once the wedding is over - you are screwed. I have a sister who lives in Guam and they know a wealthy chinese guy who married a Shanghai woman. This man is a recent widower and has grown up children. Before the marriage, Shanghai lady is the perfect woman. Afterwards, she is causing a big rift between him and his children.
The chinese have a saying: Shanghai women are very dangerous. Their reputation is very well deserved.
By all means, have fun with her. BUT dont marry her. Just my 2 cents.
Genius 8
Kamusta?thank you very much for your concern.I am aware of their dangerous reputations.That is why I am soliciting opinions and advice on the board as well as off board.However I would like to think that while for example not all Filipinas are sweet and loving,that not logically not ALL Shanghai women are dangerous.The big question is WHAT is she??Dangerous or not,Only time can tell.That is why expect me to take my time in getting to know her better and hopefully over time her true colors will come out.Thanks again
Hey Cebu local,
I have known a few chinese women in my life. IMHO, some women from China are looking for a ticket out of China and if possible, marry someone rich. Love is the last thing on their mind. Before Tiananmen Square, there were some chinese students in my University where I was studying and after getting to know some of them, it seems that almost all of them were just interested in getting out of China and another passport. Just married to anybody, obtain a US/UK/Canada/Singapore passport and then dumping them for a richer fish.
In general, I find chinese girls I meet outside of china are much better. Some understand that it just fun you are looking for, some will just end their relationship with you but atleast it is out in the open. Not some lie.....
There are some exception like always, so it really up to you. You are the only one who knows if you should continue the relationship with this woman or not.
Love is blind at times and most do not see it until the hurting starts.
BTW, I am chinese.......born outside of China and have lived in western countries all my life but I speak the language and avoid women from Shanghai...I kind of agree with genuis8.
Lupus
Mock A Bee
06-23-05, 03:31
Cebu Local,
Obviously the difficulty in all of this is finding out what kind of girl she really is. She must know that Shanghai women have a bad reputation, and I must assume that she knows that you know this.
As has been said on the board by many, I am afraid I repeat the same advice - be careful! Shanghainese women are better at this than anyone, and they have staying power. They will stay with you for years before you pop the question, then BAM! you won't know what hit you. I have also hear that some women court several guys at once to better their odds. Sex is very powerful bait. (Does this ultimately make all women with this motive *****s?)
I am sure you have heard more than your fair share of horror stories, but I did hear about an American guy who was as decent as could be. He got married to a Chinese woman and as soon as she got her green card she was none to be found. She ditched him faster than you can believe, plus she emptied the bank account while she was at it. He has not heard from her since though they are technically still married.
By the way, for those US Citizens out there with foreign brides to be, for her to get permanent residence you will have to agree to be financially responsible for her for the first ten years of her residence in the States.
Be careful - don't be a chump!
I have had a few Shanghai girlfriends and have thought about the possibility of marrying a nice chinese lady someday.
Mock A Bee's statement worries me. I don't want to be a chump! Do these chinese ladies only think about money and visas?
I don't know China as much as some of you guys. Please, some more opinions and advice are welcome. Please post.
A guy in an American bar was recently telling me that a friend of his is going to China to marry a girl he has only met on the internet.
There is good and bad in all women in all ethnicity. The bottom line is that if you treat them nice and it return back to you. I know many chinese gals that will be faithful and cherish every step you take. Just be honest and they will do the same.
Good Luck
OldAsiaHand
06-23-05, 06:30
Cebu Local/Santa,
Don't let these guys scare you off. As you may know, I am married to a Chinese woman (albeit from Chengdu, not Shanghai) for nearly 10 years now. She even has a US passport now so could run away at any moment to the USA.
As I mentioned before, it pays to be cautious, but you cannot blame any woman in the world for wanting a better life.
Be prepared to compromise the cultural differences and try to learn the language. This will help a lot.
Just my POV.
OAH
I am happily married to a Shanghainese since quite a while: she is smart, she is extremely loyal, she made me and herself a little fortune by investing cleverly, never asked for a passport. And, yes, she is jealous, and, yes, she wants to be treated respectfully and with decency.
I believe you just cannot generalize here.
My POV
Levitian
Mock A Bee
06-23-05, 12:21
I am not trying to be sarcastic or overly dour on the prospect of marrying a Chinese woman, especially Shanghainese women.
However, I advise caution because I have a couple of friends who were pursued, and one got married. The one who got married was very regretful he did. He even walked away two times from the official marriage office on the day they were supposed to get married. Yes, two times before he went ahead and married the girl. Cold feet for sure, but now he totally regrets he married the girl. What can he say? he was totally love blind.
Just be damn sure you know what you are getting into thats all.
MAB
Cebu Local
06-23-05, 14:13
Thank you for all your opinions,These have helped me decide.Basically I have made the decision to pursue the relationship but with extreme caution.The potential of being targeted because of my Canadian passport and my personal finances is very real.Basically IF I decide to get married,a prenuptial contract is a must and since I live in the Philippines,I cannot sponsor her to live in Canada.Only Canadians living in Canada can petition.So what do you guys think???IF I ever get to the stage of deciding to propose,I make a prenuptial contract a must and If she refuses to sign.I drop her???I make it clear my life is in Cebu and not in Canada and I have no plans of going to Canada in the immediate future.Thanks again guys,The decision is mine,but your opinions made me think
Juno Audio
06-23-05, 17:16
Thank you for all your opinions,These have helped me decide.Basically I have made the decision to pursue the relationship but with extreme caution.The potential of being targeted because of my Canadian passport and my personal finances is very real.Basically IF I decide to get married,a prenuptial contract is a must and since I live in the Philippines,I cannot sponsor her to live in Canada.Only Canadians living in Canada can petition.So what do you guys think???IF I ever get to the stage of deciding to propose,I make a prenuptial contract a must and If she refuses to sign.I drop her???I make it clear my life is in Cebu and not in Canada and I have no plans of going to Canada in the immediate future.Thanks again guys,The decision is mine,but your opinions made me thinkCebu Local,
Have you ever thought of the option of not getting marry, but just live together? My local friends tell me that couples living together is getting popular in China. You will surely find out very quickly if she loves you or your passport.
JA
As another poster here has suggested, I whole-heartedly endorse his suggestion - LIVE TOGETHER without marriage. This should really allow you to know her and for the relationship to develop to the point of marriage, if you should so decide, in the future. But make sure you do it for at least 3 years. Normal marriage, 1st year is a honeymoon. Disillusionment, and other character traits show up on the 2nd & 3rd years.
Cebu Local
06-23-05, 23:23
Genius and Juno
That is a great idea,I could hire her after all she works in the travel industry also,then that would be the basis for her resident and work permit in the Philippines.After a while,I am sure her true colors can come out,If she is a b*tch, I could always send her back to China.I will contact my lawyer today about the paperwork.Thanks guys
As for living with a Chinese girlfriend, in my expereince and that of many friends I have found that after a while the vast majority of Chinese girls will start to pressure you heavily into getting married after X amount of short time.
If you are not willing to commit then the relationship starts to go pear shaped very fast. So if you are bringing her to your company, make sure you can send her back to China easily if you need to.
It has been interesting reading the posts on chinese girlfriends. I ask opinions and seek your advice.
I came to Shanghai two years ago and met a very nice Chinese - Indonesian woman. She is the nicest person I have ever met and I would love to have a long term relationship with her. She is professional, smart, educated in US and the most interesting person to be with, we can talk for hours over lunch. She has found out that I am interested in her and it is creating distance, one of my colleagues who know her told me that she know of my interest and I am being way to Western and way too forward. My colleague is also advising me that I need to be more Chinese in my thinking about this woman if I want the relationship to move forward. My friend think I could win this woman's heart, just need to be more relaxed about how I do it. So I throw out the challange: How do you win the heart of an asian woman if you are a Westerner?
Cebu Local
06-27-05, 10:40
It has been interesting reading the posts on chinese girlfriends. I ask opinions and seek your advice.
I came to Shanghai two years ago and met a very nice Chinese - Indonesian woman. She is the nicest person I have ever met and I would love to have a long term relationship with her. She is professional, smart, educated in US and the most interesting person to be with, we can talk for hours over lunch. She has found out that I am interested in her and it is creating distance, one of my colleagues who know her told me that she know of my interest and I am being way to Western and way too forward. My colleague is also advising me that I need to be more Chinese in my thinking about this woman if I want the relationship to move forward. My friend think I could win this woman's heart, just need to be more relaxed about how I do it. So I throw out the challange: How do you win the heart of an asian woman if you are a Westerner?
OK.Here I go again,Lets forget all the warnings about Shanghai Girls because She is Indonesian Chinese.Lets start with some basic questions???Does she know you are in for the long pull and not for the 3 F s Are you being to forward or have you tried being more subtle??Taking things more slowly???,but you know there are books and websites on cross cultural relationships ,You have to win her trust and confidence you are in for the long run secondly be more asian.Anybody else has advice??
>be more asian.
What is that supposed to mean? Be yourself, that's the best advice. If you are in for the long run you can't not be yourself for the rest of your life.
For the gal it's take it or leave it. Spend more time, relax, if she likes you she will come sooner or later. Just my rmb 0.02
Cebu Local
06-27-05, 22:37
>be more asian.
What is that supposed to mean? Be yourself, that's the best advice. If you are in for the long run you can't not be yourself for the rest of your life.
For the gal it's take it or leave it. Spend more time, relax, if she likes you she will come sooner or later. Just my rmb 0.02
What I meant,Was try to look at things from her(Chinese)Asian point of view.Not to be not himself,but look at things from an Asian perspective.For example Chinese get embarassed by Public Displays of Affection,They prefer it in private.The Dude could avoid this,the same way chinese women have certain attitudes that they cannot say things directly straight to the point,which drives many people nuts.About take it or leave it,The girl is shying away,Remember He s selling this time and She s buying,She s the one who he is trying to convince.Just my 2 centavos clarification
Unknown One
07-16-05, 17:27
That being said please dont ask me to submit a biography with BIN and page numbers for reference. This is more of a cultural understanding as I have studied in China for 5 years when I was young, this by the way guys does mean that my Chinese can get by pretty much ok, my accent is clean.
Anyways these are some observations I noticed when it comes to dating Chinese girls.
1. Western cultural emphasizes understanding and accepting each other.
Compromise with eachother and love eachother's strong points. In Chinese culture, good luck. Most girls will accept you now, they do that during the honeymoon phase and tolerate you. It is ingrained in them that as the relationship develops, they should change you to make you a better person (or at least in my opinion what is better suited for them, hey its only human nature when we try to change people, we really aim to shape the version we want) so be prepared for serious changes in your life once the relationship gets serious. This isnt always the case but there is a good chance it will happen. I personally think this is murder on a relationship, so this has got to be the first thing I talk to a girl about if I want to date her.
2. Sex, by all means you got to take this girl to bed before you get married. I doubt anybody here will disagree with me on that. Who actually buys a car before test driving it? Strange if you compare cultures, back home in the US, you can try it, buy it, and within 30 days you can return it or exchange it. In China, its caveat emptor, you break it you bought it. Funny how it also runs in interpersonal relationships as well. Some girls think if they sleep with you they are yours. Be careful you dont meet the crazy girl that goes to your work and causes a scene. Or worse, threatens to kill herself once you break up. If anybody have any ideas how to spot these types let me know. So far I only know that the more experience a girl has and less of a fantasy ideal of a relationship, the less chance of this happening. This works for everywhere I guess.
3. Be prepared to provide financially, in China if you are dating a girl, if you were Chinese, the girl's parents will still ask you how much money you have, if you have a house and a car. I dont like it but hey its still the culture. I personally have a rule of pre-nuptial agreements. I'm still working this one into things if I have a Chinese girlfriend. The last one didnt like it, ergo, I'm single again.
4. (Only if you plan on getting married ) Chinese culture right now has a tendancy to focus too much on the children. Most parents I know dont set any boundaries and kids are the Chinese culture's life line. Especially if you have a boy. The potential problem? I have known couples who have been married, but slept in seperate beds since the kid turned 5. Why? Because he insists on sleeping in mommy's bed and most Chinese parents will give. Make sure your girl does not think that 1. The kids are more important than anything, including spending quality time with my husband. Its all about the family! Slaughter that piggy!
5. (Again only if you plan on being serious and taking that trip down the isle)
One thing I noticed about Chinese girls, and again this does not apply to every girl but I have seen enough to be a bit put off about Chinese girls. So they are sweet when you are dating, but once it gets serious. She has her feud with your mother (the age old war continues) but she is still incredibly close to her parents. Now back home, some of the married people I know will compromise and visit each other's parents and if they dont get along, only on the holidays. In China, beleive me your girl is close to her parents, and if she ever shows you in the slightest way she doesn't want to visit your folks. Expect her to expect that you only visit her folks on the holidays and her folks are allowed to come over and stay with you guys for weeks on end but if yours come she will have a fit about it.
6. On top of point 5, expect her parents to come stay with you for weeks on end.
7. Chinese girls are on the most part incredibly jealous, this includes if you look at another girl and she will get mad and refuse to talk about it. You gotta beg, and plead and she will purse her lips. I think its a game, I dont like it, maybe some people like it. This applys to anything else you made her mad about and if you have no idea what you did, she isnt going to tell you either.
8. The modern Chinese girl, especially for you guys who are in Shanghai, now expect the man to do everything. Hope you noticed this. She sure as hell doesnt know how to cook. You have to do the cooking and cleaning, and washing dishes, and buying the groceries on your way home from work everyday. Its been trendy in Shanghai now to buy fresh groceries everyday for that night.
9. Traditional China still holds sway, and she wants to marry rich. Make sure, oh good god make sure you date only a girl that has a career, not a JOB. There is a good chance she will quit after she thinks she has you, and then you get to work like a horse while she goes to the salon, watches soap operas, and/or play mahjong everyday.
Again I emphasie that these points do not apply to every Chinese girl, but they are alot of girls I have seen. I am sure this happens in every culture but I have noticed it being fairly dominant and accepted in China. Alot of Chinese girls are quite nice, and also have fairly good qualities about them. Each with different qualities. But since I noticed we were talking about problems and differences I thought I point out the problems I have noticed. Im not saying they are all problematic. But if anybody here speaks Chinese and has ever taken a look at the Chinese internet boards where people post about relationships views and problems. Some might make you downright laugh while others will make your stomach cramp. If you dont like my report, feel free to trash me on this board, I will get back to you as soon as never.
Cebu Local
07-16-05, 23:24
That being said please dont ask me to submit a biography with BIN and page numbers for reference. This is more of a cultural understanding as I have studied in China for 5 years when I was young, this by the way guys does mean that my Chinese can get by pretty much ok, my accent is clean.
Anyways these are some observations I noticed when it comes to dating Chinese girls.
1. Western cultural emphasizes understanding and accepting each other.
Compromise with eachother and love eachother's strong points. In Chinese culture, good luck. Most girls will accept you now, they do that during the honeymoon phase and tolerate you. It is ingrained in them that as the relationship develops, they should change you to make you a better person (or at least in my opinion what is better suited for them, hey its only human nature when we try to change people, we really aim to shape the version we want) so be prepared for serious changes in your life once the relationship gets serious. This isnt always the case but there is a good chance it will happen. I personally think this is murder on a relationship, so this has got to be the first thing I talk to a girl about if I want to date her.
2. Sex, by all means you got to take this girl to bed before you get married. I doubt anybody here will disagree with me on that. Who actually buys a car before test driving it? Strange if you compare cultures, back home in the US, you can try it, buy it, and within 30 days you can return it or exchange it. In China, its caveat emptor, you break it you bought it. Funny how it also runs in interpersonal relationships as well. Some girls think if they sleep with you they are yours. Be careful you dont meet the crazy girl that goes to your work and causes a scene. Or worse, threatens to kill herself once you break up. If anybody have any ideas how to spot these types let me know. So far I only know that the more experience a girl has and less of a fantasy ideal of a relationship, the less chance of this happening. This works for everywhere I guess.
3. Be prepared to provide financially, in China if you are dating a girl, if you were Chinese, the girl's parents will still ask you how much money you have, if you have a house and a car. I dont like it but hey its still the culture. I personally have a rule of pre-nuptial agreements. I'm still working this one into things if I have a Chinese girlfriend. The last one didnt like it, ergo, I'm single again.
4. (Only if you plan on getting married ) Chinese culture right now has a tendancy to focus too much on the children. Most parents I know dont set any boundaries and kids are the Chinese culture's life line. Especially if you have a boy. The potential problem? I have known couples who have been married, but slept in seperate beds since the kid turned 5. Why? Because he insists on sleeping in mommy's bed and most Chinese parents will give. Make sure your girl does not think that 1. The kids are more important than anything, including spending quality time with my husband. Its all about the family! Slaughter that piggy!
5. (Again only if you plan on being serious and taking that trip down the isle)
One thing I noticed about Chinese girls, and again this does not apply to every girl but I have seen enough to be a bit put off about Chinese girls. So they are sweet when you are dating, but once it gets serious. She has her feud with your mother (the age old war continues) but she is still incredibly close to her parents. Now back home, some of the married people I know will compromise and visit each other's parents and if they dont get along, only on the holidays. In China, beleive me your girl is close to her parents, and if she ever shows you in the slightest way she doesn't want to visit your folks. Expect her to expect that you only visit her folks on the holidays and her folks are allowed to come over and stay with you guys for weeks on end but if yours come she will have a fit about it.
6. On top of point 5, expect her parents to come stay with you for weeks on end.
7. Chinese girls are on the most part incredibly jealous, this includes if you look at another girl and she will get mad and refuse to talk about it. You gotta beg, and plead and she will purse her lips. I think its a game, I dont like it, maybe some people like it. This applys to anything else you made her mad about and if you have no idea what you did, she isnt going to tell you either.
8. The modern Chinese girl, especially for you guys who are in Shanghai, now expect the man to do everything. Hope you noticed this. She sure as hell doesnt know how to cook. You have to do the cooking and cleaning, and washing dishes, and buying the groceries on your way home from work everyday. Its been trendy in Shanghai now to buy fresh groceries everyday for that night.
9. Traditional China still holds sway, and she wants to marry rich. Make sure, oh good god make sure you date only a girl that has a career, not a JOB. There is a good chance she will quit after she thinks she has you, and then you get to work like a horse while she goes to the salon, watches soap operas, and/or play mahjong everyday.
Again I emphasie that these points do not apply to every Chinese girl, but they are alot of girls I have seen. I am sure this happens in every culture but I have noticed it being fairly dominant and accepted in China. Alot of Chinese girls are quite nice, and also have fairly good qualities about them. Each with different qualities. But since I noticed we were talking about problems and differences I thought I point out the problems I have noticed. Im not saying they are all problematic. But if anybody here speaks Chinese and has ever taken a look at the Chinese internet boards where people post about relationships views and problems. Some might make you downright laugh while others will make your stomach cramp. If you dont like my report, feel free to trash me on this board, I will get back to you as soon as never.
Excellent Report,I learned something new and useful today Thanks
Member#1346 wrote a very good post with great insight into the psyche of the Chinese females. I do not know the modern mainland big city Chinese but it is accurate insofar as the 1970-1980 Hong Kong girls that I grew up with.
I am especially impressed with #7. There is nothing more frustrating and ball busting for them to go into a funk and you can't figure out why, for days and even weeks. Even if you guessed right, you still have to come up with the appropriate gift/gesture to make up for your real or imaginary crime. I can tell you by personal experience, not just through the many girlfriends I had, but all the other GF/wife of my friends, my sister and her husband and worst of all, my own mother.
There is no real solution in general and each has its own particular twist. My own very narrow view would suggest that after marriage, any non-Chinese should relocate away from China or at least, far away from her family.
I would much rather provide financially than be "tortured" emotionally and having to compete with her family.
Good luck to whoever wishes find a Chinese wife. The scenario is slightly less intense when it is a mistress. The Chinese culture understands the position of the "number 2" and where she stands as long as the status is declared.
Tequila Kid
07-18-05, 06:51
Good points by Member #1346, but I think many of the points apply to all women, not just Chinese women.
#1 - yes, they will try to change you. So will western women.
#2 - try before you buy is a must. And universally accepted. Chinese women today have liberal ideas about sex. So this is not a problem.
#5 - can happen anywhere - I know Chinese and western examples.
#3, #4, #6 are somewhat "Chinese" related, but some countermeasures exist
Financial support - rightly pointed out, "date career oriented women".
Children in bed - don't have any children. Problem solved.
Parents visiting - move far away. (I know, they may still find you)
#9 - avoid women in desperate situations. A career oriented women mitigates item #3
#7 and #8 are unfortunately, universal traits.
In cities like Shenzhen, I think no one really cooks from scratch.
My advice - avoid relationships with very young women or women in desperate situations. And take it slow.
TK
Bob Builder
07-18-05, 08:46
I was underthe impression that all the guys here go out with "PROS" so they do have a career albeit a short one considering that in China the taste is for younger talent and it is foreigners who are more likely to want to more experienced career girls.
What you want is not hard to find in China, a ***** in the bedroom, a gourmet chef in the kitchen and makes enough money to pay for your beer and mongering. Should she have a MBA from an Ivy League school as well?
Just wait a minute, Rupert Murdoch is in his late 70's, so I assume Wendy Deng may be back on the market soon.
Why do guys always compare women to something off a used care lot? Fuck, so you don't mind when you wife/girlfriend wants to trade you in because your pecker doesn't keep her happy any more as she finds it too small since she had the baby and the vibrator she bought has an on/off switch with an endless supply of Duracells! Can you put in a pre-nup stipulating how tight a girl's pussy has to be when she is in her 60's?
Finding a good woman in China is no different than anywhere else in that if you are not from there, you u would not have a shot at the good ones in their prime as, yes there are also lots of eligible local bachelors looking so you are more likly to find ones that want you for waht you are for more than who you are.
Report of #1346 Quote: I am sure this happens in every culture but I have noticed it being fairly dominant and accepted in China. Alot of Chinese girls are quite nice, and also have fairly good qualities about them.
If you dont like my report, feel free to trash me. Quote"
Thank you #1346 for a very good report which I enjoyed reading. I think there are cultural differences which you understand more than most of us. However, I agree with Tequila Kid, most of what you say is probaly true of all women everywhere.
The part about money is true of poor people in general, they are looking for "good connections" and financial help for the family.
I think the #1 difference between western and chinese cultures is that the chinese feel a greater connection and obligation to family and ancestors. Westerners are more individualistic, it's all about me.
Sound Stream #2
08-10-05, 08:43
I will have to disagree with the statement: "Chinese get embarassed by Public Displays of Affection,They prefer it in private."
If a girl loves you and is PROUD of you, she would actually like public displays of affection. My girl really likes me kissing and hugging her in public a lot. She told me that she wishes that I would always love her that way everyday because it makes her happy.
So basically, it all depends on the guy she is with. If she likes him, then a lot of things will not matter. If she isn't all that fond of him, and he's just OK in her eyes, she will make a whole bunch of excuses and avoid being intimate in public. Why? Because she is ashamed.
Some older 40 year old lady told me something very true regarding relationships. If a girl natually loves you to death, she will be blinded, and overlook your deficiencies. Everything about you will look good to her. The reverse can be true. If a girl does not truely love you, she'll be able to spot out all your little faults in her eyes, and most things about you will annoy her.
What I meant,Was try to look at things from her(Chinese)Asian point of view.Not to be not himself,but look at things from an Asian perspective.For example Chinese get embarassed by Public Displays of Affection,They prefer it in private.The Dude could avoid this,the same way chinese women have certain attitudes that they cannot say things directly straight to the point,which drives many people nuts.About take it or leave it,The girl is shying away,Remember He s selling this time and She s buying,She s the one who he is trying to convince.Just my 2 centavos clarification
Sound Stream #2
08-10-05, 09:04
Yes, it's true. It is well known among Chinese people themselves that Shanghainese people have very bad reputations as being "sneaky" in general.
So while, I would date a shanghai girl, I will not marry her.
Instead, I prefer to marry someone who is honest, has a sense of loyalty,
and understand the meaning of "honor" and "fairness." And if she supports your decisions regarding whatever makes you happy in life, that is definitely a sign of major keeper.
For example, you will find that girls will tend to double standard. If they make you a promise, that promise may be no good, and they might not even expect themselves to follow through with it. But if you made a promise, they expect you to keep it. Now that is the type of girl I will avoid like the plague.
From my experience, I find that US raised girls tend to be more self-serving and are more like this.
Hey Cebu local,
I have known a few chinese women in my life. IMHO, some women from China are looking for a ticket out of China and if possible, marry someone rich. Love is the last thing on their mind. Before Tiananmen Square, there were some chinese students in my University where I was studying and after getting to know some of them, it seems that almost all of them were just interested in getting out of China and another passport. Just married to anybody, obtain a US/UK/Canada/Singapore passport and then dumping them for a richer fish.
In general, I find chinese girls I meet outside of china are much better. Some understand that it just fun you are looking for, some will just end their relationship with you but atleast it is out in the open. Not some lie.....
There are some exception like always, so it really up to you. You are the only one who knows if you should continue the relationship with this woman or not.
Love is blind at times and most do not see it until the hurting starts.
BTW, I am chinese.......born outside of China and have lived in western countries all my life but I speak the language and avoid women from Shanghai...I kind of agree with genuis8.
Lupus
Cebu Local
08-24-05, 13:59
Despite advice to the contraryI have decided to stick it out with my Shanghainese friend.There are always exceptions to every rule,But I agree in general most of the comments about shanghainese are valid.But remember this one has already been out of China,She studied in Canada for 5 years and has valid US,UK,Canadian Visas.She went to the UK for Holiday last Chinese New Year.Her Parents already live in a large apartment and do not need support at all.She is well paid earning about 15T RMB a month,which I guess is OK by chinese standards.She already lives in a glamarous life already regularly going to the trendy places like the Whampoa Club,Lerry s Bar M on the Bund in Shanghai etc.My lifestyle requires somebody who is comfortable with the world of cocktails,parties etc.A simple girl would not enjoy this lifestyle,Hoping for the best
Ontario Boy
08-25-05, 02:11
It is dangerous to generalize about Chinese women or even specifically Shanghainese as people are people. I have had and still have a number of wonderful relationships with Chinese women and have had some bad ones too. I also have had the same with European and American women as well Gold diggers are not indiginous to China or anywhere else. Keeping this in mind, the points raised by 1346 in an earlier post seem accurate based on my own experiences. Chinese women are indeed family orientated and marriage is important. The younger the girl the more likely she would have been caught up in the one child policy where she is now not only responsible for her parents but two sets of grandparents as well.
You have to seriously ask yourself "what do you want in the relationship ? A serious long term or just companionship or somewhere in the middle " Use your own senses and trust your gut. Don't promise things that you can't or will not provide, i.e., green card, marriage etc. The girls have hearts too !
As for your question yes 15 T a months is fairly good for a chinese worker and she can have a good life on her own. For example a native English speaking teacher in Beijing can expect 6 - 8 thousand a month with an apartment.
Good luck and I wish you well.
Cebu Local
08-26-05, 15:34
It is dangerous to generalize about Chinese women or even specifically Shanghainese as people are people. I have had and still have a number of wonderful relationships with Chinese women and have had some bad ones too. I also have had the same with European and American women as well Gold diggers are not indiginous to China or anywhere else. Keeping this in mind, the points raised by 1346 in an earlier post seem accurate based on my own experiences. Chinese women are indeed family orientated and marriage is important. The younger the girl the more likely she would have been caught up in the one child policy where she is now not only responsible for her parents but two sets of grandparents as well.
You have to seriously ask yourself "what do you want in the relationship ? A serious long term or just companionship or somewhere in the middle " Use your own senses and trust your gut. Don't promise things that you can't or will not provide, i.e., green card, marriage etc. The girls have hearts too !
As for your question yes 15 T a months is fairly good for a chinese worker and she can have a good life on her own. For example a native English speaking teacher in Beijing can expect 6 - 8 thousand a month with an apartment.
Good luck and I wish you well.Thanks and as you can guess I am looking at Serious Long term,that is why I am so cautious.I am playing for real here and My life is already quite good,but I am looking for someone to share it with.The 5 bedroom house with pool,the condos,trips etc are more fun with company
I think it's a bit strange. It seems wherever I have gone in China people complain about Shanghainese. I actually like Shanghai people. They seem pretty straightforward to me. Maybe the experience for Chinese is different than for a foreigner but I like the way they treat foreigners in Shanghai. Also, the Shanghai girls I have been with have all been really cool too. In fact, I had one that I liked who could have easily gotten me to take her to the U.S because I liked her a lot. She was honest and said she only wanted sex and not a serious relationship with me. It could have been an easy green card for her and she could have just dumped me later on but she didn't.
Sleepy Floyd
08-27-05, 03:09
Can anyone recommend a good website to meet Chinese girls that can speak English? I will be headed to China for a couple months and want to have some people to hang out with once I arrive.
To Miclac
Most people do not like Shanghai people because they lie and will say anything to get what they want. I am not saying that all of them are like that but just most of them. Most Chinese people from China or Taiwan will not have a serious relationship with a Shanghai girls because of this reason which is a real shame because a lot of Shanghai girls are really hot. So I would take what she says with a grain of salt. They treat foreign better because they are more used to foreigner since there are more of them in Shanghai VS rest of China.
To Sleepy Floyd
I had good luck using Asiafriendfinder.com. It is a paid site however it only costs about $30 US for 3 month membership which is probably all you would need. After you find a girl in the area that you are planning to visit. Just e-mail her to find out if she speaks English and whether she is interested in meeting. Just send out e-mail to all the girls that you are interested and see who returns your e-mail. Last time I did this, I received over 200 e-mail with their phone numbers so I can contact them when I get to China. I then decide which girls I want to meet first and take it from there. Good luck however do becareful because almost all these girls are looking for marriage.
Tinybobo1002
08-28-05, 16:48
I tried both and they are like "all you can eat buffet". Both of them charge a fee; the way I manage is usually 2 months before my trip to China, I will befriend a few of them, who will become my freebies for my trip. The success rate is like 70%.
Two things:
1. If you upload your photo, you will have better response. I can't because I dont want nobody in Canada to know what I am doing. If you don't upload you picture, you will receive limited emails.
2. Beware of passport hunters. Dont tell them too much your privacy, except email address and cell phone numbers which can be easily changed. Tell them upfront you are looking for fun; some of them wouldn't mind. I have bad experience with a few very aggressive gals pushing me against the wall almost causing my career and my family.
I have three decent ladies waiting for my trip in October. Can't wait.
Can anyone recommend a good website to meet Chinese girls that can speak English? I will be headed to China for a couple months and want to have some people to hang out with once I arrive.
Cebu Local
08-29-05, 00:20
To Miclac
Most people do not like Shanghai people because they lie and will say anything to get what they want. I am not saying that all of them are like that but just most of them. Most Chinese people from China or Taiwan will not have a serious relationship with a Shanghai girls because of this reason which is a real shame because a lot of Shanghai girls are really hot. So I would take what she says with a grain of salt. They treat foreign better because they are more used to foreignere.But doesnt this also apply to Beijing Girls,Shenzen girls.....It is unfair to generalize Shanghai girls,Maybe exercise more caution but this advice applies in general.I know I am biased being involved with one.But there legal safeguards........
But doesnt this also apply to Beijing Girls,Shenzen girls.....It is unfair to generalize Shanghai girls,Maybe exercise more caution but this advice applies in general.I know I am biased being involved with one.But there legal safeguards........
This applies to all the girls from every country, I am just saying that from what all my Chinese and Taiwanese people are stating, it just seems that it applies more to the Shanghai girls than others.
Ontario Boy
08-29-05, 03:55
In every country there always seems to be one city or region that gets irt from the others. In the USA people complain about New Yorkers, in France Parisians , in Canada Toronto , in Germany Berliners , etc, etc..
Big cities always come in for criticism by small town visitors who come there and when they find the pace to be too frantic too busy and too different they blame the city not themselves. A visitor from Podunk USA finds NYC fascinating yet threatening. I think Shanghai comes under this rule. In my visits to Shanghai I found the place to be hopping and with a spirit like New York. Yes Beijing is a big city but it is a governmemt centre so much more conservative and a lot less entrepreneurial.
I have been to Shangahi several times and found the people to be of all types just like New York. I got ripped off in a restauarant overcharged by a taxi driver and ignored when asking for directions in both cities. Yet in Shanghai I spent a hour giving autographs to a bunch of primary school kids outside the museum, spent three days with a beautiful lady who did not ask for ar take a present or cash and got free driinks for a week by helping out at an "english corner" in the hotel ( That's where I met the young lady mentionned previously). So agaim as i said before ease up and take people as you find them .
Sleepy Floyd
08-29-05, 05:30
Thank you Tatyu and Csun. I was already aware of Asian friend finder but not the other one. I also am wary of posting my picture for the same reason. I was hoping to find a free site, but I guess I can just consider those $30 to be an investment.
Sleepy,
Here's two free sites for finding freebie action in China. Pacific Soulmate is small, but I've always had great luck with them (including the owner who is a hot Taiwan girl and told me she wants to be a porn star). DragonSurf is huge, lots of girls, but their server is so screwy it's sometimes hard to reach the girls.
You may be aware that many Chinese Dating "Agencies" use these free sites so they can charge the girls but pay nothing to the sites. As a result, these girls sometimes don't speak English, and have to pay money everytime they answer a message.
These bloodsuckers tell the girls they will find them an Western guy to marry, and end up charging the girls a lot of their limited funds to feed that fantasy. Just something to be aware of when you write a lot of messages to them.
Because of this set-up, the descriptions are not written by the girls. And, in fact, the agency is reading your message to her and writing a translated reply. You think you're talking to her, but you're not, you're talking to them.
http://www.pacificsoulmate.com
http://www.5hu4hai.net/datingnet/index.cfm
Cronin
Tinybobo1002
09-03-05, 23:46
Rastman, your taste is a rare find in China. In the south, girls tend to have darker skin and shorter build, while in the north, particularly north east, they are taller and have fair skin. That's the general rule. If you are persistent, try those provinces in the south first, you will have a better chance.
I'm an American, and I don't speak Chinese, however where is the best place to find tall, dark-skinned Chinese ladies??? Pls. PM me. Thanks!
Rastaman
Rastaman,
Give the area around Kunming a try. I don't recall but I think the ethnic group is called miao or something.
Good Luck
Clandestine782
09-12-05, 17:23
You guys please be gentle if you are going to blowtorch me for asking this, but.....
I was at a Sauna today and asked for a Sichuan girl (because they have been the provider of so many good sexual experiences in the past) and they sent me in one who was only so-so looking-- by Chinese standards that is, knowing that Chinese men will treat one or two extra pounds as morbid obesity and reject a woman because of it.
Anyway... She comes in and starts the service, but she acts very strange (such as wanting to hug and kiss). It also comes up that this is only her second day at the job and that she hates it but has to do it to support her grandmother who is off somewhere in a nursing home in Sichuan. Apparently her parents separated and seem to have disappeared off the face of the earth. Or something close to it, in terms of how much support they offer her grandmother. I asked her how much she could earn hooking and she was *very* reluctant to tell me that her boss told her that she could earn 6,000RMB per month (which doesn't make mathematical sense after the Mama-san and house taking their cut, but that's another story). I told her that I had a very nice apartment (which I do) as a condition of a contract that I've taken with a university. This is where the fun part comes in:
Over the last couple of days, the university staff have told me about 500 times to NOT look at the students. And my personal assistant has even suggested that it would be a bad idea to try to find students from the other surrounding 5 universities. I just happen to know that it would be a very bad idea to try to have a relationship on the Down Low, because there are spies EVERYWHERE. There are at least two security guards at every gate on every shift, as well. This girl solves a lot of problems all at once in that she is not a university student and said that she would be willing to live with me even if I could offer her 1,000RMB of support per month. 1,500RMB tops. She said that she would be willing to find a job that would bring her in a little bit of income. (She said that up until two days ago she worked as a waitress earning an eye-popping 25RMB/ day.) If she worked every day of the month, she would make about 75% of what I was willing to offer her on the low end and 50% as much on the high end.
I am not under any illusions that this would be anything other than a regular supply of sex. And that's no problem, because it would work out to less than 400/ week that I would spend on whoring money because I would be getting regular (bareback) sex from this girl. (Her pussy is very good.)
My question to you guys is: Have you heard this sob-story before? (Knowing what I know of Chinese people, the sob stories should be fairly boilerplate.) And a couple of bells go off in my mind. 1] She had both a local cell phone and a regular one (which should not be the case for someone who was barely living at subsistence); 2] The boss said that she was one of the best girls. (But if she has only been there for two days, how would he have known that? Or was this a sale that he was trying to make?) On the other hand, she was desparate to make sure that I had both of her numbers, even going down to her locker to get one of the phones and making me dial the number that she had given me in the room so that she could make sure she would be able to capture my phone number--right in front of the front desk staff (which should have been a no-no). Then she held my hand and walked me all the way out to the taxi. From this experience (gauging the behavior of other hookers), this girl was not a hardened pro, but just someone who wanted OUT of her job.
My other question is: I am going to have to create some type of story for the Dean of the English Department. It would start out something like: "You guys have ruled out my going out with any university students, even if they are not in one of my classes. Then, I shouldn't be seen talking romantically to students from any *other* university. I've met this (non hooking, wink wink) girl at a BAR and we have talked about pursuing a trial relationship." (This would explain why she might spend a night or two at my apartment.) What story do you guys think would work best? (They seem to be very strange here: They don't want any overnight visitors, nor can you date anybody from any of the other non-affiliated institutions. Just what is a man supposed to do for vagina?)
Give me some of your experiences in this area. And what would be a good lie to come up with to move her to my apartment?
Cebu Local
09-12-05, 22:28
My other question is: I am going to have to create some type of story for the Dean of the English Department. It would start out something like: "You guys have ruled out my going out with any university students, even if they are not in one of my classes. Then, I shouldn't be seen talking romantically to students from any *other* university. I've met this (non hooking, wink wink) girl at a BAR and we have talked about pursuing a trial relationship." (This would explain why she might spend a night or two at my apartment.) What story do you guys think would work best? (They seem to be very strange here: They don't want any overnight visitors, nor can you date anybody from any of the other non-affiliated institutions. Just what is a man supposed to do for vagina?)
Give me some of your experiences in this area. And what would be a good lie to come up with to move her to my apartment?Will they allow you to hire a Sichuan Live in Maid??
I see Intransit and Cebu gave excellent advice in the Living in China section which you posted this in too. Please delete one of the postings since we do not need duplicates in the forum.
LA
Clandestine,
Since I am one of the first awake I will be one of the first to offer my opinion. Her story is almost verbatim to all the freelance girls you can meet in China. Likely the papasan would say any girl is his best as a sales pitch but that does not mean it isn't true and that she was working there for awhile (or elsewhere in the same position). In any case you know what kind of girl you are getting involved with. Did you ever consider meeting other women (non-pro, non-student) in the town you are in? Since you are obviously going to stay for awhile you might as well see what "nice" ladies you can meet. I can guarantee you that other local Chinese that meet her will know what kind of girl she is even if you cannot tell being a foreigner. That could have other repercussions in your life in that town.
If you are determined to shack up with this girl you might want to consider off-campus housing if it is affordable for you. This would solve the problem of prying eyes.
LA
I was at a Sauna today and asked for a Sichuan girl
...
I am not under any illusions that this would be anything other than a regular supply of sex.
...
My question to you guys is: Have you heard this sob-story before?
...
My other question is: I am going to have to create some type of story for the Dean of the English Department.
...
Give me some of your experiences in this area. And what would be a good lie to come up with to move her to my apartment?
Not being under said illusions sounds like a good idea. I think the sob-story thing is standard, especially for Sichuan girls who turn pro. While living in Chengdu I had a Sichuan girlfriend, pro, who tried to make a relationship with me. I didn't take it as serious, and told her that, but she had an agenda of slowly "working" me. She sometimes came up with stories about her mother being ill or her father being in a car accident. Even if they were true, it seems odd that stories of laowai with Sichuan girls, especially pros, always seem to have this element. Think of it this way, they're in a line of work with intense social stigma, and when a guy like you walks in, they immediately see you as a winning lottery ticket. So they will say anything to get you. There is enough talk about the spoken word not meaning much in China, but, believe me, Sichuan girls are the world-class masters in this regard. The girl I was with would lie to my face with absolute ease, not just on important matters, but unimportant as well. It's as if she had to do it to keep "in shape." They also have the reputation of being able to juggle multiple boyfriends or lovers. Here in CQ (the "other" Sichuan), I just met a pro last night, a college student, who has two married lovers, who, of course, don't know about each other, or that she hooks. So, as long as you disregard anything that is said or implied, and just take the reality of physical action as the only knowable truth, I'd say you're on the right track with this Sichuan girl.
If you're sure you want this girl in your life, such as moving in, then just move her in. Why not? It's easier to get forgiveness than permission. If the department gives you trouble, just say she's not some random visitor, she's your girlfriend. However, I presume they own the apartment and may feel a right to know who's living there, so maybe they'll accept the situation as long as they know who she is (although I agree with LoveAsia, they should be able to tell easily she's a pro who's "hooked" you, so to speak). On the other hand, maybe they won't say anything to you, and just look the other way. So, in summary, I'd say that if it's no trouble to just silently move her in, and everyone looks the other way, then just do it, otherwise, get the off-campus apartment as LA suggested. Just my 2 fen. By the way, I'm curious to know what city you're in.
Don't let your pecker do the thinking. Pro girls make great shags, but bad girlfriends. She's a rental only. Find 'em, shag em, be nice to 'em and then move on. Don't get emotionally involved. Happy punting!
My opinion.
Hey man,
I think your heart is the right spot. But having lived in china many years, I think there are thousands of chicks you can get by offering them a Wai gou ren house relationship. so why not find, a real good girl.. then you get the sex for free. Any hooker, truly wants cash and if your not willing to part with some each month, some other guy will. You really are only as good as the cash that comes out of your wallet. plain and simple
Lubricate It
09-14-05, 12:37
Whoever sees her will automatically assume she's on your payroll, no matter what story you spin. This issue is whether you can live with this or not.
OldAsiaHand
09-14-05, 15:59
Clandestine 782,
Your post reminds me of a girl (pro) I met when I was living in Pattaya Thailand in 1985. She told me that her mother could not walk hoping for sympathy and medical expenses for an operation. One day I paid her a surprise visit at home and encountered a middle-aged woman running around the house. She was introduced to me as her mother. When I questioned her about the "could not walk" story, she quickly tried to cover with, "Uh, well, she is not my real mother, I just call her that". Possible, but there sure was a striking resemblance between the two of them.
How many times have I heard, "I just arrived" since the less used the more valuable? Possibly just arrived at that particular establishment.
I am known to be the ultimate skeptic, but after all these years of mongering in Asia, I too have learned only to believe what I can see.
Having said all that, if you keep it in your proposed perspective and on a completely commercial basis, it should work.
Just my POV.
OAH
Clandestine782
09-14-05, 18:32
A friend of mine told me to never try and rehabilitate a hooker. He was right.
I won't bore you with the details....
Cebu Local
09-14-05, 23:03
A friend of mine told me to never try and rehabilitate a hooker. He was right.
I won't bore you with the details....No, go ahead,Your story may be educational for newbie mongers.
Mock A Bee
09-15-05, 04:14
A friend of mine told me to never try and rehabilitate a hooker. He was right.
I won't bore you with the details....
Clandestine782,
I concure with Cebu Local, please provide details. After all, this forum is all about information. The more we share, the better off all of us are - even long time mongers can learn a few things.
MAB
jankyfreak
09-15-05, 04:37
So I'm heading back to shanghai for business.
My last trip I met up with a girl from a ktv bar. I'm wondering if i should meet up with her again and pay 1000 rmb for the nite. Before I left she said she actually liked me and wanted to become bf and gf. I was like let me think about this.
Or just take the opportunity to find new women.
I need to take advantage of China while I can. Freaking police in Los Angeles are cracking down on MP's.
JF
Janky,
Thanks, man, that one really made me laugh. Like you couldn't tell what advice you would get from us? he he he. I'm sure we all think you should forgo the cornucopia of delectible fruit available in SH for that one girl. Even if its Zhang Zi Yi, I'd be keeping my options open. But you knew that.
BTW, what a fucking piece of work is LA. I really miss busting my nuts to find an Asian GF, only to find that she is a banana (yellow outside, white inside). And I really miss sparing with the Escalades on the 405. If you see my baby Boxster on the 405, blow it a kiss, I won't be home for dinner.
Cronin
jankyfreak
09-15-05, 08:13
Janky,
Thanks, man, that one really made me laugh. Like you couldn't tell what advice you would get from us? he he he. I'm sure we all think you should forgo the cornucopia of delectible fruit available in SH for that one girl. Even if its Zhang Zi Yi, I'd be keeping my options open. But you knew that.
BTW, what a fucking piece of work is LA. I really miss busting my nuts to find an Asian GF, only to find that she is a banana (yellow outside, white inside). And I really miss sparing with the Escalades on the 405. If you see my baby Boxster on the 405, blow it a kiss, I won't be home for dinner.
CroninI think my brain was getting soft here in Los Angeles... got to remember to stick to the plan: Find as many hot shanghai women as possible.
But yes, Inglewood PD is cracking down on massage places and all my favorite Korean girls are running away because of it.
I would also add, "never fall in love with a hooker", that can also happen and will probably have a tragic ending. I speak from experience here.
Clandestine, I think you can mount lots of the student freebies if you play your cards right. Tell them you are "not allowed to have a girlfriend" but if they want to meet with you "very secretly", that's ok. The trick would be to convince her that sex is just for fun between adults, it does not mean we have a strict one on one romance. It's only for fun! That could be difficult, she my become real clingy and jealous of your other shags.
Easier, but maybe not as much fun, visit the pros. Keep it very private, you don't want gossip. Please don't post any pictures or tell us where you are located.
Clandestine Fox is inside the henhouse, so mount lots of pretty spring chickens, make it a "clandestine opperation", and don't wake up Farmer or Laoshi Wang.
Any japanese girls there? They might be in for a good boinking.
Good luck, were all wishing you great success!
Clandestine782
09-15-05, 18:34
I met a girl the other day and she said that she wanted me to come to her hometown. She took me and a friend there and wouldn't let me pay for anything and introduced me to her mother.
I think: "This girl is sizing me up as relationship material based on her mother's remarks." And after five hours of bus rides in transit: Do you know that that ***** drug me around her hometown for the whole DAY? (And guys, you know what it's like being drug around by some woman who might shut off the supply of You Know What if you protest too vigourously about entering 2,000 stores and buying nothing in a single day.) We went to 8 or 9 shoe shops (because she knew that I needed some new gym shoes but wouldn't stop after I told her "Let's no go to any more past the first three stores") and then took me to a photo booth and took 9 photos with me. After the dragging was over and we had gone back home, what do I find out but that this bimbette couldn't have had anything further from her mind than the picture of me as a boyfriend?
So many things I could have done with that day. My tone started to get much more abraisive in later text messages to her after I got home(these were done half in English and the other half in Chinese) and then she perked right up. She seems to not have even known that I was interested in Exploring Her Moist Regions. (Duh?)
Thank God for hookers. They lay down on command. They leave on command. And they are often better than what you could get in real life. (I had one tonight in a beautiful hotel for 200RMB, inclusive of the room and shower. She had a *smoking* body. I was going to wait a few minutes for a Chongqing hooker that I liked, but when I saw her I couldn't contain myself. Was almost stupid and went bare, but decided not to after my big head took over.)
What about the story about the Relationshiphooker? In short, she makes me believe that I have a chance to start something like a relationship with her. And then the next day I don't hear anything from her. Or the day after that. It's funny, because I asked the boss of the sauna what kind of rate could he give me for two cums in the space of an hour (I was thinking 200RMB, tops) and when he didn't give me satisfaction I didn't send him any more text messages. Ms. Frankenhooker gets right on the horn and calls me and asks me if I am coming by tonight. It's like: "You silly Penis Vacuum! You knew [insert Black American vocal inflections here] GODdamned well that you weren't going to try to strike up any type of relationship with me. What was the purpose of all that hugging and kissing a few days back?"
So, I am going to try to convince this girl that I may be able to put on tap that sex is something that adults can enjoy (she's a third year student, so she should be old enough to know this), and I'm going to get this hooker that I had at the hotel tonight an HIV test/ checkup in the meantime and fuck her until she gets whiplash once the results are back. (It was evident just from fingering her that she had a pussy so good that if you threw it in the air it would turn into sunshine.) I'll likely be able to get a good two hours (and hence 3-4 cums if I'm at my best) for 200-250.
Japanese girls: There is one coming next week. I don't know how old she is, but that might not stop me from getting my freak on with her if she's willing to try a Black Magic Wand. (Trust me fellas: The penchant of Japanese women for black men is overstated.)
Clandestine,
There isn't any way for me to put this nicely, so I'll just say it: the things that you are saying and doing are devoid of logic and rational thought. I think you really need to consider what you're doing in China because you are 100 percent clueless, and as such, you are going to be taken for a royal ride by just about anyone around you, including Sichuan sauna hookers and shoe-shopping students.
You claim to speak enough Chinese to carry on at least half a text message conversation in it, but you didn't get the student-takes-you-home-to-meet-family deal?
I can smell the cloud of desperation surrounding you from here, and I don't even know where you live. Dude, relax. There's plenty of pussy here, especially if you speak some Chinese. But you really need to chill and not act like you're going to die if you don't get laid in the next week.
Yea, you got the right attitude. Be very wary, be nice guy, shag 'em till their bow legged, and don't let 'em hook you into that "you are my boyfriend" shit.
Stay away from "shopping". Ok, you are desperate to do lots of homping, but you are new, so relax, you will do just fine!
Watch out for Farmer Wang, that fucker may have snitches watching you.
I feel like Dear Abby giving you advice. I know you don't need it, just like to give you encouragement. Keep on sniffing, you'll find that pus!
Cebu Local
09-15-05, 22:33
[QUOTE=Santa]I would also add, "never fall in love with a hooker", that can also happen and will probably have a tragic ending. I speak from experience here.
I agree Santa,but sometimes it works out.But with so many "normal"girls around why get a Pro.Mine for example is a manager recently got "headhunted" and is now in a new job as a manager of a big enterprise in Shanghai.She is now at 15,000 RMB a month and spends mostly her own money.We started a new business again.Chinese people cannot get Taiwan visas directly to Taiwan,But they can get visas issued in Third countries,So we are now going to send them to Thailand and the Philippines,get them their Taiwan visa there then bring them to Taiwan,She was the one who came up with the idea and introduced me to several Shanghai,Beijing and Nanjing Travel agents to get the thing started.
The point is I ended up with a beautiful girl,who was western educated(5 years in Canada) who is now turning out to make money for me,Shanghainese women are indeed great line fisherwomen.Basic point you can have a great relationship with a normal girl ,why bother and risk heart ache with a pro.
Tequila Kid
09-16-05, 05:57
Cebu Local,
I don't think you can generalize a relationship with a normal girl will be risk or heart ache free.
My experience is similar to yours; I have been with a very smart, educated and wealthy 'normal girl' for many months now. But I think my experience is not the norm. The relationship has been GREAT and trouble free.
But a normal girl can cause problems if she feels the need to do so..... or she is just that way. I have met a few that appeared too needy for my taste.
I would generalize the following....."a relationship with a normal girl has less risk than a relationship with a pro....but anything can happen"
And for mongering, a pro is your most efficient and trouble free option.
Glad your relationship is working out.
TK
OldAsiaHand
09-16-05, 09:56
Clandestine,
There is a saying from Thailand that I have posted in the past that applies most of the time:
"You can take a girl out of a bar, but you can't take the bar out of a girl"
Obvioulsy, you might find an exception, but rare in my experience.
I envy you. I wish I was single and had more time and freedom to pursue freebie action. Living in China and speaking a bit of Chinese opens up so many opportunities for free pussy as Intransit said. P4P is available to get you through the dry spots.
Just my POV.
OAH
My experience is similar to yours; I have been with a very smart, educated and wealthy 'normal girl' for many months now.
I like the suggestion of going with normal, higher-class girls. I think I need to do more of that myself. Those of you who have met girls like this, can you tell us how you met them? This might be useful information to those of us who tend to meet girls of lower education and means. I have also met some mid-range girls (e.g., typical office girls), usually via online methods like asiafriendfinder, which is nice, but they were mostly mid-range in looks as well.
Clandestine782
09-16-05, 16:31
Calm down, asshole. If you don't have anything to contribute, just please be quiet.
I get so tired of people trying to psychoanalyze things from afar. You didn't see it all. I was not introduced to her father, nor was I introduced to her mother in the context of a dinner or a meeting at home. It was more like: Her mother was at work at the factory and we swung by there for a total of 5 minutes.
It's like this: Most men have sex as an immediate concern. Otherwise, it wouldn't finance such a large number of hookers' paychecks. I'm not so different to most.
You must think I can't see through what you are saying, but I can. I believe that when my color came up in the last post that I made that it clicked on that: "Stay out of my sandbox" attitude that black expatriates get from a lot of the white ones that are over here. You are SO obvious.
I'm noting that you've made 531 posts to this board. It leads me to believe that you've spent a lot more time in China paying for pussy than I have......
Thanks to those that have made useful retorts.
Excuse me?
You posted your moronic situation and ideas on the board. I responded with the intention of assisting your situation.
"I get so tired of people trying to psychoanalyze things from afar. You didn't see it all." Well no shit. And if you're tired of people trying to psychoanalzye things from afar, then don't post to an anonymous Internet message board. If you're so fucking smart, figure it out yourself, asshole.
It can barely be divined from your post that you're black, but if you are, I really couldn't care less. Stupidity is absolutely 100 percent color-blind. And while you're at it, look up the definition of the word "retort."
Yes, clearly I've spent more time in China paying for pussy then you have. Your point is? That I should know better than you? That my experience is greater than yours?
Get Sichuan girl to move in and then start fucking your student as quickly as possible. That way you can be taken for a complete ride and get fired similarly swiftly, and maybe get tossed from the country so you can go back to whatever shithole you came from in the first place.
Thanks Bob Builder for clarifying.
Bob Builder
09-16-05, 17:11
A "nice" girl takes you and shows you her home town without you paying a cent and you call her a bimbette for not blowing you for the whole ride there. Lets face it given the attitude of Chinese in general, you being of darker color does not make you a great catch. You were lucky because if they wanted to exploit you you would have been paying for everything! Haven't you ever dated a normal girl who goes window shopping?And it sounds like she was trying to find "you" a pair of shoes, not her.
As for the hugging and kissing from a pro. I generally ask them if they love me and if I have the most enormous cock they have every seen and expect them to say yes! And if they truly love me they should let me do them anal bareback and suck me off after for good measure. Good pros give you that GFE (Girlfriend experience) which makes johns come back for more. She no more wants to be your semen holder than eat shit.
As for keeping a 'ho, unless you chain her to the bed, she can be out jumping any old "friends" any time you actually go to class. For me I would rather be the one using someone else's private 'ho's flat for free than the sucker that pays the rent and has other mongers jumping her in my bed! Over time you will run into many "part-timers" who have regular boyfriends and will get to use their flats for free. Nothing like a good shag with a picture of the boyfriend next to the bed watching.
Wisen up, newbie.
Intransit was only trying to give advice.
Clandestine, your "asshole" comment was totally inappropriate.
Bob Builder
09-16-05, 17:40
Chill out!
Haven't you noticed alot of seemingly absurd posts lately? Just by reading their own posts, these guys must know it is some dumb shit. And if someone on an anon website says "what you are doing sounds cool, go for it, the're acutally going to do it"? While we are in this tack: Hey guys, I have the secret of getting all the pussy you want for the rest of your life. PM me if you are interested so I can tell you where to send the US$1,000,000 and the secret is all yours.
I think someone is having a laugh and baiting mongers into a flame war.
Just look at the post of the retards going on at SB in the photo section about him being arrested, waiting for him at a bar, lets not degrade the 'hos, blah blah blah.
This has really become a bleeding hearts' forum. Might I suggest for all you "touchy feely" types as SB calls them, you should all just wank instead and donate RMB150 every time to flood relief or a Sichuan girls orphange. For all the intellectuals mongers out there with all these rules on how you should treat 'hos look at it like this: Girls do it out of poverty, not because like sucking dick ( of any color) so if you are doing it, you are exploiting the poor and uneducated and it makes you as much a piece of shit as the next guy that you jump on for not treating the gals nice.
Like I have said many times if you feel so sorry for them then do the right thing, give them all you money and send them home. Chances are all you are going to do is increase the sales in China for Nokia or Motorola.
Clandestine782
09-16-05, 17:58
My aggravation comes from the fact that if this girl didn't have any intention of considering this a date (like many girls in Fuzhou and Shanghai make clear from the outset), she should not have wasted my time.
"Retort," straight out of the dictionary (because black people know how to use those, too). I come from the United States of America. (Sorry if it seems like a shithole to you. It probably does to most White Dorks Who Can't Get Laid there but come to China and become the Big Man on Mulberry Street because Chinese people don't know how to distinguish semi-literate poor white trash from Upstanding White People.) Since I think I know a little bit more than you about recognizing "Stay Out of My Sandbox" lines from white expatriates (having heard them MANY times), I'll let stand my original assertion.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=retort
v. tr.
To reply, especially to answer in a quick, caustic, or witty manner. See Synonyms at answer.
To present a counterargument to.
To return in kind; pay back.
v. intr.
To make a reply, especially a quick, caustic, or witty one.
To present a counterargument.
To return like for like; retaliate.
n.
A quick incisive reply, especially one that turns the first speaker's words to his or her own disadvantage.
The act or an instance of retorting.
So, it means "reply." So now what? The reason I posted this was so that other mongers could tell me what parts of this situation they've seen before, not to hear someone's Cracker Jack psychoanalysis. (It might be best to explain the rest of this to you like you're a six year old, but I don't have all night.) If you want to make a chemical compound, you look in the literature and see if it has been made before. And if it has, you don't spend time trying to figure out how to make it all over again. By analogy: If you want to know what is a particular situation like in China, then you ask mongers if they have experienced it before and don't waste time reinventing the wheel.
No, I don't plan to sleep with any of my students and take up your second invitation to get kicked out of your sandbox. Sorry, but black people know how to read contracts and understand what's kosher and what's not in China. I don't mean to break your heart....
Clandestine,
Wow, you have quite the chip on your shoulder if you need to make this a) about your being black, and b), about your being American. I've mentioned nothing about your background or citizenship aside from the "shithole" remark, which is a figurative indictment of your character rather than your place of origin.
You claim to know how to use a dictionary and yet still come to the conclusion that a retort is a reply. You're missing the part about it being biting or incisive at the end. Therefore, a "useful retort" is a contradiction. My last reply to you was a retort. Perhaps it is indeed too big a word for you to be using.
Again, you claim you posted your original story regarding Sichuan girl "so that other mongers could tell me what parts of this situation they've seen before." I did this, and I quote: "In brief, yes, we've heard this story. I don't see from your description that you fell instantly in love this girl and had to have her become an immediate and seemingly permanent part of your life, so why go through all this to provide for a hard-luck case?"
Other posters also replied. Instead of acknowledging any of this material, you then launched into the "my student's a ***** because she didn't suck my dick on the bus after buying her shoes" story (that's a paraphrase).
In this latest post, you write, "By analogy: If you want to know what is a particular situation like in China, then you ask mongers if they have experienced it before and don't waste time reinventing the wheel."
You did that. Some of us responded. Then you called me an asshole. Perhaps the tone of my second response was not particularly cordial, but you seemed to be getting yourself into difficult or frustrating situations very quickly, so I thought perhaps a second, more emphatic reply would draw your attention. You would certainly not be the first person to find yourself in a difficult relationship with a working girl, but since some of us previously experienced this and can offer advice, including myself, I thought what I said was valid and might be worth considering.
Good luck with the two situations you have mentioned and I wish you the best for your time in China.
Bob Builder
09-16-05, 20:37
Does Date always = Sex?
And girls actually tell you that you will be getting it when you go out on a date with them beforehand? Or do you ask and make it clear if there is no action, you're not interested in showing up?
I mean I ask working gals if there is no blow I don't go but do you actually do that with non-pros?
I give both of you a B+ for English composition. Yes, it is confirmed, C-man is an English major.
YOU KNOW WHAT THE SADDEST THING IS! 3 guys posting shit on the web on a Friday night with all that tang out there. I for one am heading down the road for a guaranteed date just to make myself feel less of a loser! I suggest you guys do the same and you will feel a lot better.
Cronin's 5th Edition.
Retort: To tort again.
Tort: Sweet little cake.
Proper usage: "Ow, that little honey was so fine I had to retort her."
Bob Builder - you know, to each their own. If you want to treat the girls like "ho's" - that's your business.
What gets my goat, tho, is how you lump all the people who disagree with YOUR point of view into a class of "retards" - how's that work ?
a. Chinese girl is poor - needs some money.
b. Monger is not poor - has some money, needs some pussy
c. Monger gives money to poor girl, treats her with respect. He gets laid, she gets some money.
Brother - that's win-win, at least from where I stand. Could you explain to me the part that says because I elect to operate like the above scenario, that I am no different than guys who treat the girls like dirt, and think of them as "ho's" ? If you make statements like that, there has to be at least a modicum of logic behind them - yet I see none. Please enlighten me. I don't know you from the man on the moon, and for all I know you are one of my most cherished customer, but cripes man, you seem incredibly intolerant of the view that some of us have - to treat the girls with respect. Why so bitter ?
Cebu Local
09-17-05, 03:09
There is a saying"Different Strokes for Different Folks".Each of us has different styles of getting Pussy,Some want a strict Client-Provider relationship,Others want to get involved and develop "relationships".Let respect each others styles since we are all different people.My 2 centavos worth
OldAsiaHand
09-17-05, 05:24
Lao Ma,
Well said! My sentiments exactly.
OAH
P.S. There are exceptions to every rule. I posted an experience on the DG thread recently in HouJie. The girl's disrespectful attitude and service demonstrated that she did not deserve my respect. Thus, I did not afford her any.
Bob Builder
09-17-05, 05:44
Just as you gave me good advice on what I could do with myself for commenting on you paying what you want for gals, I offer you the same advice on what you can do with yourself on your opinion on how to treat girls.
But unfortunately each time you miss the point in what I try to say. My point that you completely miss and I try to keep things as sarcastic and lighthearted as possible as people are starting to really take themselves too seriously here, you can look at things with more than point of view.
Like the situation that you outlined, you could look at it as:
1) Contributing to the standard of living in some remote village in China (win-win with respect). I am sure that there are quite a number of houses and brothers' educations I have contributed to over the years. or
2) Contributing to young naive girls in a poor third world country being exploited for their poverty. So if you want to treat one with mucho respect, give her a shit load of money and send her home.
If you want to go all out and say that you treat them well and that makes you feel good, knock yourself out. Not that I don't treat gals that please me well either, but what gets my goat is when guys lecture people about how they feel they should treat gals with the same supposed level of respect as they do, when you could take a view and look at the whole practice could be seen as disrespecting Chinese women in general.
Get my point. You pick the side of the fence you want to sit on. I monger and treat some with supposed respect and some like shit depending on attitude. And I don't need a lecture on "if you treat them better, they will treat you better". You are always going to come across some sooner or later that will give you bad attitude and bad service.
Calling people "retards", I was commenting on all the posters coming out of the woodwork speculating on where SB was, with really rediculous shit on what happened to him. They must have been laughing as they typed that he went to a bar and asked for the guys waiting to kick his ass. As for my comment on him disrespecting 'hos, form what I gather he must pay well as from my encounters COF is not always appreciated and they keep coming back for more ( I don't think it is for the corkscrew). Given they agree to do what they do with him and come back for more after supposedly being hurt by his manhood, they made their own choice!
Keep it hard and keep your cool!
Bob Builder
09-17-05, 05:46
You beat me to the draw.
My point exactly.
Bob Builder
09-17-05, 05:50
OAH,
It is forecast for rain today, so you may be able to sneak in with a hooded raincoat on.
Happy hunting.
OldAsiaHand
09-17-05, 06:24
Bob,
Thanks for the advise, but I am in GZ at the moment. I will probably head down to ShiQiao later this evening when the SW come out on the prowl. It is not Sha Tsui, but does the trick in a pinch.
OAH
P.S. I will be in SZ mid-week. Any chance of hooking up in Sha Tsui? I'll wear the raincoat.
OAH,
It is forecast for rain today, so you may be able to sneak in with a hooded raincoat on.
Happy hunting.
Points taken.
it's damn near impossible for anyone to really understand what another monger's points are - in this anonymous internet forum. I don't want to get too nuanced here - all I want to say is I don't treat the girls I see with respect because it makes me feel like a man, or it makes me forget that I am paying a girl to spread her legs for me. I treat them with respect simply because that's the way I am. I'm not sure which post you are referring to that I was lecturing people to treat the girls like I would - I simply posted about the way I see things. Same thing on the price issue - I just stated why I pay what I do - never called anyone who gets the price beat down a little a "retard", or said all those that do that kind of thing suck. If you think I did, then either I didn't do a good job explaining myself, or you misinterpreted what I said. Regardless, this isn't a big deal.
btw, it's MISTER Old Woman to you, smegma breath :)
Bob Builder
09-17-05, 09:30
Mr. Old Woman Sir,
Winning the ashes make someone a bit cocky this week.
OAH,
Keep out of Sha Tsui for the time being and I wouldn't explore any new areas in SZ for the moment. Why? LE is even enforcing curfew at KTVs at 2am. Most saunas closed in Ha Sha and I don't even know of the ones open that they are offering, but if they aren't there is no reason to go as they sure can't massage to save their lives. My regular BBS area has over 2/3 closed for over a month. Chinese mongers who I know who have rented apartments in ST have moved out.
These are times to rent a small apartment, dial the phone book on your mobile for takeout and keep to mongering in daylight. Its strange how shit is more apt to happen at night.
[QUOTE=Lao Ma]Points taken.
"it's damn near impossible for anyone to really understand what another monger's points are - in this anonymous internet forum."
Dear Punters.
Regarding "respecting" these ladies please allow me to clarify my definition.
There are plenty of plumbers, carpenters, lawyers, politicians, mongers, teachers, shopkeepers, etc., who are liars, scoundrels, thieves, cheats, and deserving of reprimand. This is also true of prostitutes.
Most prostitutes are from very low-income families and lack employment and educational opportunities. Naturally, we expect greater numbers of them to be dishonest. However, bad behavior is common in all professions, prostitutes are not an exception.
A prostitute is simply a lady providing relaxation and horizontal entertainment. Though some of us might prefer it in the upright position. She is simply another person trying to acquire some money, and some of them are very nice. So treat her as you SHOULD any other lady you encounter, with politeness, dignity and respect. Avoid using derogatory or slanderous names.
I'm not talking about giving her love letters and your checkbook! Buddha forbid! Don't be a sentimental fool! She will rob you and cheat you, just like any person will.
You are only a customer, so keep it that way. Just regard her as you would a teacher, taxi driver, clerk, nurse, waitress, or whatever, she is only a payed service provider. She is just another female trying to make a living.
When choosing a gal for rent, try to pick one that you think will be friendly and nice. Maybe the one that's smiling? If she has great tits but a cranky attitude, give her a miss.
Finally, never trust street pimps, those parasites I do not respect.
I know some of you may perceive me as snooty, pompish or prudish, but really I am not. To quote my favourite philosopher, Popeye, I simply, "y'am what I y'am!", another monger.
Not a lecture, just my opinion.
Crazy Jim Wood
09-18-05, 01:16
Just regard her as you would a teacher, taxi driver, clerk, nurse, waitress, or whatever.
You're right, they're all ho's.
You're right, they're all ho's.
More to the point, they're all service workers. I try to be polite and do honest business with them, but I'm not likely to hand over a ton of money to them so they can quit their jobs hooking, cleaning toilets, delivering sandwiches, or whatever. Labeling this as respectful or disrespectful is neither here nor there. If someone thinks that such money should be handed over, then by all means, go out and hand it over, and report on the results.
By the way, none of you guys who talked about having normal, higher-class girlfriends answered my question of how you met them. So, how did you meet them? Inquiring minds want to know (even if it's useless information).
A Curious Cat
Cebu Local
09-18-05, 13:50
By the way, none of you guys who talked about having normal, higher-class girlfriends answered my question of how you met them. So, how did you meet them? Inquiring minds want to know (even if it's useless information).
A Curious Cat[/QUOTE]I was invited to a cocktail party at a classy place called the Whampoa Club located at 3 on the Bund In Shanghai,The crowd was a mix of locals and foriegn.There was a gorgeous chinese girl talking about hotels,We talked and found out We both went to the same College,The University of British Columbia and thats how it started.I went to the nicer bars like Luna in Xitandai or New Heights in Three on the Bund.Hope this answers your question.
RasSpewtin
09-18-05, 14:58
Today is Mid Autumn Festival. I can抰 say that I fully appreciate the significance of this day, even if it is the third consecutive year that I have spent this day in Shenzhen. It is not because I live here permanently, I do not. It just seems that fate has me here at this time of the year.
Some locals have told me that this is a romantic day. A day to eat heavy round cakes with a significant other, drink wine, and thereafter increase the population to 1.5 billion plus one. I don抰 know. I can抰 see the moon tonight, as rain clouds obstruct it.
Today my current 21-year-old fave told me that she could not join me for dinner. This was a day for family, she explained, and Pop wanted her at home. This was the first time that she declined an invitation to dine and couple, so I believe her. Call me na飗e, and I will smile.
So today抯 dinner was assigned to the hotel restaurant. As I was seated, I mused at the table that was one level lower and straight ahead of my line of sight. Three American businessmen with 揹inner guests to entertain them. The girls spoke English, of course, and they giggled reluctantly when their hosts used thinly veiled metaphor to list all of the things that they disdained about China. After all, dinner was free, and there would be a generous tip in store when their date uttered his last grunt. What is the harm in a feigned chuckle for 2,000 RMB? The rent will be paid.
Directly across from me I spotted a 30-something lady with husband and fat little boy in tow. Hubby wore sandals, a golf shirt, and shorts that looked like pajamas. I only noticed because his dress was in sharp contrast to hers. She had taken time to prepare for dinner. Her dress was made of fine and carefully layered fabric with horizontal pleats that she knew would accentuate her slender body. The colour of her dress resembled that of the golden moon that we would have seen, were it not for the fucking rain clouds. Her shoes had wrap-around lace that made her calves look like statues. I couldn抰 help but stare, and her husband was too busy flailing his chopsticks to care.
When her hubby and little boy were refreshing their platter at the buffet trough, she made the tragic mistake of smiling back at me, as if to say, 揧ou are the only one here that can appreciate me. Then it was her turn to get chow, as she went over to get some sushi. Seizing an opportunity for self-gratification, I also went over to top up my supply of raw fish. With her family out of sight, I yielded to temptation and leaned toward her. I whispered 揘i jintian hen piao-liang (You are beautiful today), while avoiding eye contact so as to not risk her getting busted by LaoGong or Little Fatty. I heard a quiet but distinct whisper in reply; 揦ie xie. Someone had noticed.
For the remainder of my solitary meal I forced myself to stare elsewhere, so as to avoid any loss of face for her. I imagine that she will sleep soon, and if I am lucky, she might smile and remember the compliment.
Raz
Tequila Kid
09-19-05, 07:13
Raz,
Great post. I have seen this scene before.
Cebu Local, my real job has kept me too busy to reply "how did you meet normal, higher-class women".
My experience is similar to other post in Shenzhen and Shanghai threads. I will summarize later this week.
TK
Brain Damaged
09-19-05, 07:20
Hey Raz,
The Mid Autumn Festival has a reasonable chance of being true. Putting Sunday (regular day off) and a Chinese festival together usually results in the gal being with family if she can (viz. if her family is in the area somewhere).
BD
Crazy Jim Wood
09-19-05, 11:19
By the way, none of you guys who talked about having normal, higher-class girlfriends answered my question of how you met them. So, how did you meet them? Inquiring minds want to know (even if it's useless information).
A Curious Cat
I meet high-class girls by waiting for them to fall on HARD TIMES and surface in a seedy bar looking for EASY MONEY.
It's kind of like waiting for the NEW GUY in jail to slip on a bar of soap in the shower. We're all only a soap-rope away from HARD TIMES.
Cebu Local
09-19-05, 12:06
More to the point, they're all service workers. I try to be polite and do honest business with them, but I'm not likely to hand over a ton of money to them so they can quit their jobs hooking, cleaning toilets, delivering sandwiches, or whatever. Labeling this as respectful or disrespectful is neither here nor there. If someone thinks that such money should be handed over, then by all means, go out and hand it over, and report on the results.
By the way, none of you guys who talked about having normal, higher-class girlfriends answered my question of how you met them. So, how did you meet them? Inquiring minds want to know (even if it's useless information).
A Curious Cat
It wasnt me who asked Night Cat was the one who asked
My shift-button is broken. Don't get mad at me Jackson.
Hi MAC 2,
If your shift button is broken, please go and buy another keyboard. They're only $10 in the USA, so how much can they be in China where they're made?
Thanks,
Jackson
CL,
Normal, higher-class girlfriends I mostly met through chinese friends. I already live here in China, GZ for 10 years. However, those girls are not that good in english and speaking chinese is more helpful. If you pretend that you can't speak chinese, they will open the english box and try, if they like you. But most of my friends are in higher government positions and therefore it is easier to find and meet such girls or real ladies. f. e. , my wife. I met her through a general from the air force and she owns one of the biggest pr&advertising companies in South China. Lucky me or maybe not. She is 10 years older than me. 35! But she is an absolutely lovely person, has a body to, and is more like a friend than a real wife. I have never met one who can do as much partying than her and it's always fun to be around her and all our friends. But consider that we both work a lot and we both think life is too short to keep up a traditional marriage.
Ok, you can also meet them in bars just talking to them. Depending on the situation and you have to know how to choose. We can hook up up one day and can try to find one for you. But you have to come to gz or BJ.
Sure, others will say there are other ways to meet them. There are always other possibilities! Tis is just my experience.
All in all, if you know one within a short time you will know many and you can have alot of fun, too.
Anyways, I know this is off topic in some way, but cl asked for it.
BTW, I am already visiting this site for a couple of years and the reason that I don't report is that I stopped hunting 4-5 years ago. I found and still find it better to go to parties or bars and go hunting there. success all over the year! Although, the bills were higher than visitng a bbs. everything has its price.
If you guys live in gz, I can highly recommend student parties which are held weekly in bars, homes, etc. The girls there are always waiting for fresh meet from abroad. However, you will find girls from all over asia and all of them are not only intertested in the younger generation. PM me, give me your e-mail addy and I will send out the flyers to you when I get them.
Although I don't write reports, but I can submit valueable information for massages, good oks and bars in South china. Interested? Let me know and I will submit.
For the BBS stick to OAH, Cronin and all the other first-class hunters. Maybe I should start joining them and get back to the roots of my GZ time.
Mac2
By the way, none of you guys who talked about having normal, higher-class girlfriends answered my question of how you met them. So, how did you meet them? Inquiring minds want to know (even if it's useless information).
A Curious CatI was invited to a cocktail party at a classy place called the Whampoa Club located at 3 on the Bund In Shanghai, The crowd was a mix of locals and foriegn. There was a gorgeous chinese girl talking about hotels, We talked and found out We both went to the same College, The University of British Columbia and thats how it started. I went to the nicer bars like Luna in Xitandai or New Heights in Three on the Bund. Hope this answers your question. [/QUOTE]
AquaSponge1
09-20-05, 07:14
Hey All!
I've done my share of mongering here in China (I work here but I am not a Chinese citizen) and have been with my live-in Chinese girlfriend for almost 2 years now. We plan to get married next year and I was wondering if you guys can give me some advice about how to go about the red-tape in this country.
We both live together in Shanghai but she is not from Shanghai (she's from Henan province). Does she need to go back to get a passport? Can we register our marriage here in Shanghai? Or do we go back together to her home province to get our marriage registered?
Appreciate any advice I can get. Thanks.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.