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09-02-03, 13:31
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Lubricate It
09-02-03, 14:04
I've now encountered Chinese women in several countries. (I do not live in China.) A lot of them come across as very genuine, interested in enduring relationships, marriage and green card. I have now fallen for one of these in a big way. I think she would make a great wife. Clearly the green card and jump to a better lifestyle are a big incentive for her. She is 18 years younger than me. I wonder whether she would commit to me permanently. Views, anyone?

09-02-03, 14:14
The same as any other relationship. You have to judge it on your interaction. Some good and some bad. By the way, the green card is not the great path to heaven that it was in the past.

Three I
09-02-03, 19:01
You maybe right Manonsanboy but being a ***** in the U.S. or Europe is way better then being in China. I know a lot about the Chinese in Southern California (San Gabriel Valley) I have been offered numerous times to marry someones dauther, sister or friend for $20,000 just be careful if it sounds to good to be true it is not true!
If you go to any Asian dating service you can find 18 to 50 year old women some already marrien some not looking for husbands and sugar daddy's that's what they are there for to facilitate immigration. Some of there parent put them up to do things like this be careful!

Lubricate It
09-02-03, 23:27
Originally posted by Three X
You maybe right Manonsanboy but being a ***** in the U.S. or Europe is way better then being in China. I know a lot about the Chinese in Southern California (San Gabriel Valley) I have been offered numerous times to marry someones dauther, sister or friend for $20,000 just be careful if it sounds to good to be true it is not true!
If you go to any Asian dating service you can find 18 to 50 year old women some already marrien some not looking for husbands and sugar daddy's that's what they are there for to facilitate immigration. Some of there parent put them up to do things like this be careful!

Three X. I think you are getting close to what I'm on about. At the stage of the relationship the $ signs seem more important to her than the romance although she continues to push all the right buttons with me in an amazing way. She's also a lady who's in the AMP business. I want to know what the long term scenario is. Can I turn this into a proper situation which will last into my old age, given the 18 year age difference? Anyone out there been thru this with a Chinese?

09-03-03, 00:05
Originally posted by Lubricate It
Three X. I think you are getting close to what I'm on about. At the stage of the relationship the $ signs seem more important to her than the romance although she continues to push all the right buttons with me in an amazing way. She's also a lady who's in the AMP business. I want to know what the long term scenario is. Can I turn this into a proper situation which will last into my old age, given the 18 year age difference? Anyone out there been thru this with a Chinese?

I think each situation is unique to its own. There may be similarities, but to the extent people and their motivations are different, relationships will be different. I for one, was not looking for anything when I fell in love with a lovely Chinese girl. I have to say that I think my situation differs in that my girl has no desire to emmigrate. She likes her life in China just fine and learning a new culture and language for her is more trouble than it's worth.

As for the age difference, I say forget about it. Who cares. It's very common in China to see middle aged men with young ladies in their early twenties. My girl's previous boyfriend is 42. He was 39 and she was 19 when they met. Situations like this are not uncommon in China. We may refer to it as "robbing the cradle," but they see it as something normal and they don't see anything wrong with it. As long as you're fine with it, she'll be fine with it.

Three I
09-03-03, 03:27
Originally posted by Lubricate It
Three X. I think you are getting close to what I'm on about. At the stage of the relationship the $ signs seem more important to her than the romance although she continues to push all the right buttons with me in an amazing way. She's also a lady who's in the AMP business. I want to know what the long term scenario is. Can I turn this into a proper situation which will last into my old age, given the 18 year age difference? Anyone out there been thru this with a Chinese?

Hey buddy I went thur the sh't with on cAmp girl in Riverside California and I know most of their tricks and stuff!
1. You will never get the truth only more lies!
2. You may not be the only one! (Everytime a buisnessman came in my "friend" alway got a buisness card)!
3. All of her friend do it or have done what she is doing!
4. Do you know her real name.
5. Is she really divorced!
6. cAmp girls can be bad for you health!
7. You should get a good lawyer if you marry her.
8. Does she have a Chinese boyfriend, do you know who she speaks to on the phone!
9. When she speaks english it is a American guy she is talking to.
10. Is she in a dating service most of them are! Go to the area she lives and look for her picture in the dating service and some of her friends also!
11. Most women use their emotion to fuck with your head. She can't beat you up for some money nor a green card so she will use other means ie... pussy, love, save me from this job BS!

I know the game buddy! Believe me it is not pretty but Asian guys go thur this shit way more then you of I ever will, they except them and marry and let them work for years.

09-03-03, 09:30
Of course Chinese girls are famed for their golddigging reputations............unlike our sweeties back home eh lads.

Check out the view in 1933!

Get real all relationships are about give and take. Can't take the filthy stuff with you!

Three I
09-03-03, 17:51
Originally posted by Rayman
Of course Chinese girls are famed for their golddigging reputations............unlike our sweeties back home eh lads.

Check out the view in 1933!

Get real all relationships are about give and take. Can't take the filthy stuff with you!

Of course you can't take it with you and I am being real! If he is looking for love then I think he should look somewhere else that's all. Beside he might give and she might take it all! Not the mention the embarrasment around his friends and family he will have to put up with if she is running a "game" on him. You got to love them with your brain buddy not your heart.

Yup you're right you can't take it with you that why he should give it to someone who gives a shit about him and his welfare.
If he wants some give and take go to Thailand. Cuba, Vietnam or the Philipines for a more equadible exchange! (sorry about the spelling)

Lubricate It
09-03-03, 23:43
Manonsanboy, Moody, Three X and Rayman

Thanks your comments. There are pretty strong resonances in what each of you says.

The vibes are excellent. We want each other bad. She has given me the address and telephone number of her parests and they aren't fake.

There are some shit downsides. We live in Tokyo. She has a "sham" marriage to a Japanese 15 years older than me, so she can work here. She screws him. But he offers her a good deal, and all I can give her is promises. In her economic circumstances that's a rational decision for her. If I don't marry her she would probably live with him forever. She is faithful to him (she moved in with him some time after first meeting me).

My wife wants to contest divorce. In my present jurisdiction (Japan) a contested divorce is virtually impossible. Because of work I have to stay in this jurisdiction another 2 years. Even if I could visit another jurisdiction somewhere else for a "quickie" divorce the wife would create a huge scene which would impact badly on my work here.

It's hell, but my inclination is strongly to follow through with it two years down the track. It's because she offers more than any woman I have ever met!

James D 2004
09-04-03, 00:01
Lub it,

The only permanent is change. You are possibly asking too much. In US is easy, sign a prenub, and marry her. Nothing much to lose. Everybody is happy, everybody has a good deal, why not. The downside? I know a woman in SGV, LA, an ex-model who married to a rich resturant owner. They have a prenub, and he doesn't give her much money to spend. She prostitutes and he doesn't know.

Oh please, don't be shy about your age. You just turn people off. Is it something like that you can be her father, and that her husband can be her grandfather?

She is probably doing as a chinese saying, riding a cow, looking for a horse. Once she got a horse, she may want a porche, but no porche may want her. That's life.

Time will tell. To be sure, date her for as long as you want. If she really likes you and there's no other men, she will wait. I wouldn't worry about the mileage on her, that old men probably couldn't do much damage.

09-04-03, 03:25

Do what you want, don't have any regrets (important!) and don't let the pessimists get to you.

We all know these stories of unfaithfulness and cheating, and they have no creed and culture boundaries.....west and east. I know several western lasses who put out whenever the hubbies away.........and not for something tangible like money/love but just for the kick!!

Nevertheless, take things easy, no rush mate - whatever you have to wait two years...

Just one thing on the age. If she is 18 and you are 36 the gap is huge in terms of maturity and 'what she wants out of life' As she gets older she may change - we all do and most changes occur when we are young. However if she is 30 and you are 48 ....well that gap is nothing at all.


Three I
09-04-03, 03:36
We never said that western women don't cheat but , when she is a hooker she is not the ideal you would love to give your heart too!

09-04-03, 07:23
Ahhhhhhh....not ideal of course but if only one could control to whom one gives ones heart to.....:-)) But better than being alone into your old age or married to someone that you regret being married to and forever harking back to that girl in Shanghai (or whereever) that you left behind.

Should i be banned for being too romantic? Perhaps.

Have to say though many (not all mind) of the working girls/women i come across in China hook for necessity or because they like it and not because they have some awful character flaw. Hence the number of students who earn cash in the KTV's who later will be successful in marriage and in work. I presume!!

09-04-03, 14:21
Have to say though many (not all mind) of the working girls/women i come across in China hook for necessity or because they like it and not because they have some awful character flaw. Hence the number of students who earn cash in the KTV's who later will be successful in marriage and in work. I presume!!

I think that's in some cases true. I had lived with a KTV girl for a while. Her roommates also work in KTV. They work in KTV because there is very few jobs available for a farm girl, even with a high school degree, to get a job in the country or in the city.

Different stories to differnt roommates.

One moved up to live with a suger daddy and is now getting high all the time. Cheating on his suger daddy all the times.

Another one put all the money she made in KTV into his boyfriend's shop back home. Now, she's working in the shop and visit customers all days. Last time she came back for a visit, she's all tanned and lost at least 10 pounds. Hardly using any makeup these days and not making nowhere near the tips she was getting in the KTV. But she seems happy.

I think a couple things to put China's situation apart from other countries.

China's establishment is hardly controlled by organized crime like else where. Well, some of them are controlled by gangs but these gangs are nowhere near the scale of the organized crimes in other countries. Honestly, can you image Chinese government tolerate an large organized crime like Mafia in the US or Yakuza in Japan?

The eatablishments are more like business. KTV girls pay the companies to get into work everyday instead of being forced into the work. There are no gangs to pay off at the end of the day, just the management up front. With plenty of supply of young, pretty girls from the country side everyday, the management of these establishment has no desire to force anyone to work.

So, what's the KTV jobs come down to? If she likes to party, a night of free drinking, signing and dancing with pay. On tips along, some good looking girls can make more then average college graduated white collar workers. Going home with the guys? Sure, why not? One night stand with pay.

Of course, some got spolied by the money but don't we all? Can the expats on this board can honestly say that they are willing to get paid the same as their Chinese coworkers? The emotional tricks they use to get most out of the customers are just well developed "industrial" standard procedures. Moreover, how many years can they really make the kind of KTV money? 4 or 5? How many 30 over KTV girls in China? Even most of the mammies are under 30. For these golden years, one needs to make as much as she can.

Most of the love songs you heard in KTV describe failed relationship. "I love him but he has to go." "I love him but he cheat on me and I can't leave him because I love him too much." Common sence in these songs. The typical Chinese romantic novels are not any better. These have big impacts on the Chinese women's view of love. On the other hand, moeny is more real.

I am still with the girl and she's still working in the KTV. She's not taking my money. As she put it, this is a relationship. That only makes me like her even more. Not sure how much longer will this relationship but I am enjoying as much as I can. One day at a time.

Three I
09-04-03, 16:15
My brothers just watch your healths and live your own lives. The Koreans and Chinese in Los Angeles say the same thing except the are mostly over 40 have a $300,000 house married and has a $30,000 car for herself and $40,000 their husbands. The single ones have $1,500 a month apartment and $30,000 cars and saving up the buy a buisness. Not all but most! C-ya

Lubricate It
09-14-03, 02:14
Thanks for the helpful comments, guys including Three X, Rayman and Talln. It really helps to get the views of others because I sense I'm often dealing with a team of people...

She seems to have a strong support network of other Chinese women - her best friend, her workmates, her mother etc. And what I'm told (or not told) is always exquisite and perfectly calculated, like a committee has put it together! I suppose this is a characteristic of the way Chinese women operate.

We had a comment on the Shenzhen board recently (where this thread originates) that Chinese women are beautiful, sensitive and manipulative. That rings true. She is very responsive to anything I say and can take offense easily. But she's also making me fit into the frame she has designed. I would also add as characteristics they will do anything to get a good lifestyle, and seem to have less of a sense of guilt than people in Western societies.

BTW, I'm not shy about telling my age. It's just that a lot of people read WSG and I'm afraid I might get recognised if I'm too precise. But its more at the forties/fifties end of the spectrum.

Three I
09-14-03, 17:42
I am 25 years old and from what I have learned from all my experiences is this.

A women cannot take money, wealth or anything physical from you so she must use her mined, body, sexuality to make you give her those things.
I hope everything works out buddy keep your head up I have been where you are and it is not good!

09-17-03, 13:41
One night stands.
This one is in response to Lucky's observations on Blankies post in the Shanghai thread.

Basically, if you pick up a part-time sex worker it is best to offer something the morning after even it you had thought it was a freebie. But don't force it on them.

However if i have read Blankies situation right IF you pick up a girl out shopping, gym or where-ever and hit the sack do not offer her money afterwards. How shameful!

She is not a sex-worker but a girl who likes you - and i guess it is reciprocated. Treat her the same as you would after a one-nighter in your own home town.

Getting out of the relationship is your own affair, but she might be out for fun as well - in my exp. they usually are. Don't worry about it UNLESS you told her the ol' meatloaf stuff.

09-25-03, 08:50

I'm a regular poster on the Illinois, USA board. I'm posting this
question because i have no idea where else to find the answer.
This may be off topic so if it is please forgive.
Here is the situation:

I have a female friend who is half chinese/half
italian. She is a natural born american citizen only.
She has started to assert herself and took a job
against her parents wishes. While she was in a
different state taking this job her parents thought
she was with a man that she is in love with, yet she
was not. Anyway, she talked to them by phone and said
she was coming home to get her stuff cuz the new job
starts in two weeks. Her parents told her they wanted
her to go with them to Beijing, and it wasn't a choice
for her. Well she can't really go because of the new
job, but then she seldom disobeys them. Her dad is
an immigrant to the US who is also a naturalized citizen
of the US.

What are the laws concerning her when she is over there
with her parents. I have recommended to her that she not
go given the paternalistic leaning of the law in china and
also the uncertainty of the law in such matters.
So my question is when/if they get her to go to Beijing can
they keep her there and not let her return to the US?
Any other advice related to this matter?

Thank You for any help or advice with regard to this matter,

Indigo Blue
09-26-03, 04:29

If your friend is over 18y.o, here is just like everywhere else. No one can really force her to anything. Personally I have met at least five girls in that situation, both here and in Japan, and every one have ended with the girl flying back to Europe or the U.S. Life is hard here for "bananas" (yellow outside, white inside). The same Asian that open their arms to the foreigners, shows kind of contempt for the overseas Chinese or Japanese who cannot speak well or read their language. I have seen that, somehow, is harder for girls. IMO, this is because Asian girls are a much sought-after girlfriend back at their countries, but here they find themselves rather at the opposite end of the scale. Also because overseas Asian girls, with their behavior (i.e. smoking in public), attract more reproving looks. Of course there are cases in which she just integrates, find local friends and boyfriend and everything goes smooth, but I can talk about cases like a friend of mine, 19 y.o., from Holland, who enrolled in a students exchange program to have the means to leave China, swearing never to be back. But, for short term, everybody agrees that this was the experience of their lives. My advice is tell your friend to come, to enjoy her time here, and to have a backup plan to resume her life back in the U.S. in case she decides that this was definitely not made for her.

My two cents...

09-26-03, 22:55
There is no law for paternalistic marriages or other forms of Forced Marriage, or as far as i know not even a leaning towards such matters.

As long as she has a Passport/money she can leave whenever she wants to. China has changed since the days of Mao!

I suggest you let her go and don't get involved further for this issue - family affairs are often NOT transparent and there is probably alot more to this than you know.
Hope this helps.

09-27-03, 06:49
Thanks for the opinions about freebies.
the girl I met at the gym is totally insistant (verbally) that "I like you, that is all. you are a man, I am a woman [29y/o] and we both enjoy this.)

she has also started referring to my ex-GF as my GF, so this may allow me to slide my GF in the picture more to keep the relationship EXTREMELY clear.

The concern I have is that she SMS's me when I am out of town that she misses me. That feels too GF to me. I called her on it and she gave me the line stated above and told me not to worry.

Hmm.. I wont allow this to slowly slip. I complain anytime she wants to spend the night in my bed. I offer her the other room. The truth is that I cant stand sharing my bed due to heat, space, etc..

Any additional red lights for me to watch out for would be appreciated.


Bone is Hard
09-29-03, 02:12
BNK, Here's a post I just put on the General CH board.

Just a little bit of help, please.

I just read an interesting post in another China city forum that made me wonder. I have spent many nights in a small town (1.2 Million) in Hunan named Zhuzhou. I frequent, what I have been told to be a legit massage joint. Foot, Regular, Thai, etc but no sex. After an hours foot massage and an hours Thai massage, the young girls would often ask, "want to sleep" and I would reply, "No, just keep going". Is this common code for "do you want sex"? I've read many post in this forum over the past year and a half and have never read an answer to this. The post was in the Haerbin section and Blnknamecrusier says this is a northern phrase but I have heard it about 4 times in the south. What do the rest of you experience when or if this question is asked. The girls in the massage place I frequent in ZZ are very pretty but since I was told it was a legit place, I have never tried anything with them although I sure would like to.

Thanks for any info.


Have you heard this in the South China area? MP's have usually been off my list except for the legit massage. Although Ive been to China several times, I'm still learning every day, which is something I enjoy doing.


Found It
09-29-03, 06:26
Just me two fen's worth; as my little head often overrides my big head in matters involving sex, I have had my share of "freebies". If I am truly honest with myself, in every single case, the effort to get laid was only 1/10th of the energy consumed to get free of the later "hassles". In fact, just as I am writing this I get an SMS from a recent "freebie" that is becoming a f*cking pain in the bum with this "I am missing you so much" BS.

Hey, I know that I can get my fair share of pussy in the marketplace but as a FOB monger my ego sometimes gets in the way and I think the "freebie" is only attracted to my good looks, my stamina and skills in the sack, etc, but, at the end of the day...there is always some shit to deal with later.

Just MHO, but I am really starting to think a commercial arrangement is the only way to go here.

Stay safe and Happy hunting in the holiday week!

10-10-03, 09:26
Mongolian girls.

When you talk about mongolian girls, are they from Mongolia (country) or "Inner Mongolia" (chinese region)?

I had a girl from Irkutsk (in Moscow) from mongolian origins and I did like her a lot, phisically and in bed.

I'd like to try the Mongolian you have in Beijiing, reading your reports is quite interesting.

Please give me an advice: having a couple of weeks of time for a sex vacation, would you head to Inner Mongolia, or Mongolia? Or in your opinion it's difficult to find women there? I'm worried that the only available/willing for sex go to BJ or big cities and that "at their home" they behave differently.

Thanks for helping

Lubricate It
10-17-03, 00:55

As a reader of the Beijing board and its referrences to the Mongolian delights at Maggies, I too have wondered if this refers to women from the country, Mongolia or from the PRC's Inner Mongolian region.

I am living in Tokyo and my Han Chinese girlfriend referred to on this board is from Chifeng in Inner Mongolia. In my close to fifty years I have never seen such a paragon of female virtue before!

First she is beautiful. Although in her mid-thirties, I could have sworn she was not a day over 25. Slender, with enormous natural breasts and perfect, firm erect nipples, she carries herself very straight and is proud of her body and womanhood. Virtually no pubic hair. Her favourite clothing is the bright red cheongsam, and she knows she looks great in it. She sometimes wears pale blue clothing (cheongsam or western style) as a contrast. She has a very expressive face, which helps smooth over any language difficulties.

Second, she sees her mission in life as to be attentive to other people, and especially men. She uses her eyes to get your attention and keep it. She takes a genuine interest in what you do, and is very responsive. She is sensitive, but always warm to everyone. Her disposition is to be gentle and kind. She is incredibly cheerful. She works hard, keeps her room clean and is frugal.

Third, she has an outstanding understanding and mastery of sex. For example, she understands the importance of a BBBJ for a man, and genuinely enjoys giving it. In the early part of our relationship I avoided it, as I wanted to make clear I wasn't just looking for sex. I think this disappointed her. On the day I finally said yes to a minute or two of BBBJ an expression of sheer delight came over her face. She took her time, wriggled in an exquisite way into the right position, fixed her hair, and delayed a few seconds, savoring the moment. Her technique was flawless. I think perhaps only 2 or 3 women in 100 genuinely enjoy giving BBBJ. She is the world's best at this!

Regular sex is superb. The first time, I was just in the AMP for a "date" with no intention for anything like this. The shop rules strictly prohibit sex. She just handed me a condom, gave me a knowing smile, and went into the next room for a second or two to fix her hair. I felt like Donald Duck! She is always very moist and orgasmic, so orgasmic in fact that I suspect she is faking it, but it's hard to tell! She's not noisy. Just little oh, ohs. She squeals with delight at DATY.

So I would think Inner Mongolia might be a place you to visit, but others might be better able to give advice.

10-17-03, 08:25
I have spent a few weekends in IMon and didn't think much of the girls.

However public safety would be much higher with the Chinese in control. Mongolia itself can be a bit of a handful by all accounts.

10-17-03, 10:51

Most of the Mongolian girls I have met in Beijing come from Outer Mongolia and do not speak much Chinese, as a rule.


10-18-03, 18:26

As a caucasian from north america who is planning on a 3 week trip to the PRC for the first time (I've been to HK), which would be your top three recommended towns/cities to visit for mongering purposes considering availability, price, and attractiveness of the girls. Also, I don't speak chinese but was able to cope in HK ok.
Will appreciate your advice.

10-19-03, 00:58
you go to Shenzhen and Donguan, you will need to go no further.

Three I
10-20-03, 00:33
I think Dalian, Beijing and Shaghai for mongering fun!

10-21-03, 00:35
Has anyone here had any experiences with the local married women. I ask this because although I have always been quite lucky with them from '95, I have been on a continuous streak in recent years and availability seems to be increasing. They complain that their hubbys are always either gambling or out whoring. I don't get this response in other Asian countries.

Any views?

Breakdown in family values since China's increasing open sex market????

Of course it depends on cash, travel costs etc but personally i would steer away from the main areas although i guess Beijing is a must as you will fly in there. According to all reports Shenzhen and areas of Shanghai are AIDS hotspots.

What about Xian in Shaanxi province? Clean and affordable and very nice girlies. Also lots to see in the Tourist dept.

10-21-03, 04:32

do you have any specific sources on Shenzhen and Shanghai being hotspots for aids?

Just curious, as I am in Shenzhen.

Have had only one or two experiences with married women.


Crazy Guide
10-21-03, 06:38
Well, I have said that before too. Because of employment, many married couples in China live 1000's of miles apart and only see each other once or twice a year.

These married ladies need relieve just as much as you and I. Perhaps more.

For those who like them a little older (25-35), these ladies are great. They come, take care of business and are not at all sticky. I have one that is 31 but looks 22, she will call me every other week to see if I need her service. I have never paid her a dime and she is always happy to come see me when I say yes.

Yup, married ones are great.


10-23-03, 08:36

I have read this quite often over the past few years in the UK press. However type AIDS Shenzhen into Google and it is all there. Same for Shanghai.

I remember one report I read several years back on the www that in some areas of Shanghai the infection rate is sub-sahara levels....apparently.

Obviously some of these reports are to get some funding going but some of the stuff I read in these forums are crazy.

CG: My first exp in China was with our senior company secretary back in GZ. Despite approaching 50 she was fantastic in the sack and had a body many 20 yos would be proud off despite the weather beaten face. Sloppy Bj and anal was her speciality.

Matty Boy
10-28-03, 05:44
Do you guys know anything about becoming a "duck" or male prostitute for women in Shanghai? I'm arriving in a couple of days and would like to know where to start as I have little money and enjoy older ladies very much.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions for capitalization and punctuation. To avoid future delays, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no caps or punctuation. Thanks!

Three I
11-06-03, 05:02
Hey buddy I believe "DUCKS" are for gay men!

11-06-03, 07:36
Not quite, three X,
Ducks (or "yazi" in mandarin) are the gigolos who prostitute for rich (older or not) chinese girls. It is trendy for rich women to pay a beautiful "shuai ge" chinese guy to service them. That is just fair.
I would say these guys need to hung around expensive and trendy cafes or coffee shops where the women come to show off, after shopping.

11-06-03, 10:02
Actually have heard that ducks can get some pretty good cash. I should think that there might be a bar at a major hotel in each city that might have them. For example, I have heard that the hangout in Shenzhen is someplace in the Forum Hotel.

Good luck and let us know if things pan out

11-06-03, 10:53
Three X,

I think guys for men would be called "rabbit" (tuzi).

Three I
11-06-03, 17:52
Thank you gentlemen I stand corrected!

11-17-03, 06:08
Does anyone know what is "pink" or "peach" guy??

I am sure it is not the same in Chinese as in English

11-17-03, 06:10
How about "ke ai" as description of a guy. It translates to "cute" but that does not sound so good in English.

Prince Leo
11-17-03, 18:44
"Ke ai" can also mean "loveable" if a girl is interested in you. But it means "immature" or "dumb idiot" if she is giving you a cold shoulder or has a negative feeling toward you.

11-21-03, 06:23
Dear Riain,

Agreeing with what Prince Leo says, 'cute' is much more of a virtue among Asian girls. Girls here (unlike other places) are often quite happy to sleep with a 'cute' guy type. Southern Chinese tend to like more cuteness (as opposed to ruggedness/agressiveness, whatever) than Northern Chinese.

Of course, it's also a way of flattering a guy that a girl thinks is an idiot. Her motive in such a case is probably the usual "get into his wallet, by making him think he's getting into my pants" strategy. I think we've all been there.

'Pink' is occasionally a positive way of saying 'Caucasian', as pink is a 'cute' color. Chinese also have a thing about pink nipples being a sign of sexual purity. I don't think that applies to any of the pink-nippled ones on this board, but our cute pinkies might draw affection from certain ladies anyways. It is not unusual to have them massaged, stared at, and affectionately bitten.

Kencal MD
11-26-03, 07:35
Most girls I've met in China are very shrewd and manipulative. Don't fall for the innocent, childlike and cute look! Also beware of girls who flatter you-they do it for one purpose, to empty your wallets!

Girls in Shanghai tend to be the most moneyminded followed by girls from Hong Kong and Guangzhou. Girls from other provinces tend to be more pure and innocent.

Please see the pics I posted a few weeks ago of the girl from Xian. She was a very pretty and in my opinion humble and honest girl.

Three I
11-27-03, 07:06
The girls from Guanxi, Shaghai, Yunnan, Hunnan, South China in general are shitty!

11-29-03, 23:30
Kencal MD is dead-on. I recently made the mistake of marrying one from Guangzhou and bringing her back to the good ole USA. Since her arrival, I now suspect that I was misled on two major topics of interest, including her age (older than I was led to believe), and her previous child-bearing status (it appears that I may have a stepchild after all, despite what I was told). Plus, the demands for money, a car, etc., have been never ending.
A few years ago, a friend of mine was in the process of divorcing his wife from Shenzhen (actually, she was the one doing the divorcing, with the petition filed a few weeks after she received her green card), when he gave me some advice that I ignored to my detriment. The guy, who was totally in love with this girl and treated her like a princess, and was crushed by the divorce, knew my preference for Asian women, and warned me to never marry a Chinese woman, particularly one from Guangdong Province. He told me to look for a Filipina if I truly wanted an Asian wife.
Well, I found one here in the US. She was beautiful, sweet, kind, and loving, and never once asked me for money, or to buy her anything. But for some stupid reason, I broke her heart to marry my Chinese wife. You have no idea how much I now regret that decision.
To any of you who are considering marrying a Chinese woman, please consider what I have been through.

12-03-03, 10:23
I'm going to be working in China at a University.

I don't want to get married at all, and am toying with the idea of tapping into the student body for purposes of sex.

A lot of you guys meet these girls in places that are a bit...... shady. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of them are after your wallet.

What are the questions?

1. Are people at universities more likely to want to open their legs because of being young and curious? Or should I try to teach at language schools and get recruits for booty camp from there?

2. Do you guys find that most of these girls want marriage right away? Or would they be happy to just be stable (non-married) partners?

Please contact me via a private message using the WSG Forum's Private Message service.

12-03-03, 14:15
Rayman and GaryGrant,

Which city/province do you guys pick up these married ladies? How do you meet them?

I'm thinking of spending a few months in China next year, might try my luck then.

12-10-03, 12:42
Would you like there addresses and telephone numbers as well Twelve?

If you speak good chinese and have a nice place to bring them to, as well as looking like GaryGrant you'll be ok where ever you go.


12-11-03, 14:16

I was just wondering where these women are most likely to hang out, don't want to end up picking up the wrong type - be it hookers or girls who lure you somewhere just so that their guys can jump and rob you.

I speak okay Chinese, not sure what GaryGrant looks like but I look okay.

Crazy Guide
12-13-03, 04:59
Hi 12,

Look I don't know where you hang out, as for me, I speak very little Mandarin, and have only been to SH 4 months. I live out of a hotel. But I have more than a handful of married and seperated ones to choose from. Quoting blankie "i am getting tired of too much f**king".

Really, can't tell you where to look, maybe you should try icq or msn, all of us have had successes from there. Of course, they gyms too; Man, those gym gals are hot. especially if you go to the gyms during day, office hours. Or if you are into more immediate gratifications, try malones, Big bamboo or any maoming lu clubs like Judy's too.

let us know how it goes.


Thirty Mins
12-13-03, 19:12
Lemas Mitchell,

There are many reasons why a professor in China shouldn't sleep with his students, but I'm sure you've already thought of those.

Let me give you two good reasons why you might want to sleep with university students:

1. Some will sleep with their Chinese professors for grades, money, both, or for whatever reason.

2. University students in China aren't allowed to marry, and most have too much pride to consider dropping out to marry before they would otherwise graduate.

Make sure you are generous with your offers of private tutoring. Be careful though, for all the curious and friendly young girls, there are some who are very nationalistic, and would enjoy humiliating a dirty foreigner.

12-14-03, 06:33
My favourite are the shopping malls, big department stores, or gym days. Generally speaking a married woman will never let you near her house until she knows you very well. But for heavens sake DON"T be obvious - they hate being thought of as easy, though they are in fact.

My fastest ever was at the side door of the Friendship store in GZ. From first conversation to a bbbj was about 25 minutes flat, and she was a 10++, rich successful but her hubby had a string of girlfriends - (big business man type) - and that is common for chinese men generally speaking. The wife just puts up with it.

12-26-03, 08:05

Off the subject of freebies for a moment, which I get fairly little of compared to some my fellow mongers.

I am sure some of you have found yourself in a similar situations. Staying at a 4-star hotel in a 2nd line Chinese town, I call the Beauty Salon for a girl. Sichuan girl arrives and starts a 3 minute massage, then pops the question, "do you want something extra?" I determine that BJ is not in the cards, BBBJ or CBJ, so we are just talking straight sex. A request for pricing received a 1,000RMB reply, to which I respond is ridiculous. "How much do you want to pay?" What is the bottom line? 800, no, 600, OK? "I will just take the massage." "500 is my last offer", to which I reply 300 is the best I can offer.

She still takes off her clothes, remove my shorts, climbs on top and starts giving me a body to body massage. Slides a condom on and slides me in. Periodically as she is riding me, I am reminding her that we have not agreed on price, have we? I turn her over and remind her again and she just avoids the issue. I finish missionary style and she is off to the bathroom to clean up.

I give her the 300RMB, "Not enough". I give her another 100 for good measure, and she says, "200 more". I am getting angry. She refuses to leave the room. I have to physically grab her by the arm and show her the door.

Any similar experiences? How is this situation usually handled?


Always Needing It
12-26-03, 10:29
OAH, such Pros know the market and, of course, are also out to squeeze for that additional red note. I would usually insist on paying at/near the front desk...and have had to raise my voice occassionally for this privilege. And 50 or 100 additional at the door should be sufficien to shrug off the tugging.

Hold-on tight to your valuables :)

12-26-03, 10:40
Sometimes this happens OAH. Frankly speaking you should have paid a fair price, and you would have felt better afterwards as well, or are you hard up teacher, facing a pension scandal or something.

The best way to handle it is to be sure from the start, as perhaps she was hoping you would give her more later. She could have given you quite a bit of trouble depending on her connections with the hotel or with outsiders. Next time just pay up, as long as it is fair for both, and you have been here long enough to know.

In a 4 Star hotel it is difficult to get anything below 800 - and that is away from the main cities. It was 1000 a shot 5 years ago in Gunagzhou.

Did the money also include the massage coast for the Hotel? Usually close to 100rmb.

There's a lot of money in these top hotels, whether from private guests or from 'company is picking up the tab'.

I had a nice chat with one of these girls a few months back and she confirmed anything from 1000 - 2000rmb in the 4-5 star hotels. However they may only get one or two customers per week. Some westerners over from the States give 100US$ minimum as that is how much they pay for some drugged up girl in Times Square sort of deal.

Love Tractor
12-26-03, 20:14
That sort of thing has happened to me, OAH, and I would only have given her the extra 100 if she were very nice and didn't demand it. The last offer on the table was 300, and if she starts giving service, then that means she accepted it. I'm surprised she didn't start giving the service and *then* demand more to finish it!

I treat them with respect as long as they do the same with me, and if they try any BS, I kick their butt out. I don't care if these pro's think I'm a nice guy (read: sucker) or not.

12-27-03, 08:18

How does one define a fair price? I am not hard-up or on a pension, however, I cannot put this on an expense account or am I over here on a short business trip from Times Square. As you know from my posts, I do this thing 3-4 times a week, as you do, but pay for it more unfortunately. I just do not want to pay more than the going rate for the circumstances.

I was in another 4-star hotel in Ningbo a few days earlier and made a deal directly with the lao ban yang in the hotel beauty salon for 300 all-in, including the 100RMB house fee. I have paid between 300-600 for these hotel salon services over the years. Obviously, the sauna girls are more expensive as are the KTV girls in the same hotel. Generally speaking, the beauty salon offers the best value. What is the difference between the salon in the hotel and the ones outside, 4X the price? It does not seem logical to me even with the higher rent.

However, you are right, I should have put a stop to accepting any service until we had completely agreed on the price. This would have avoided the uncomfortable situation in the end. I have been here long enough to know that.


Dick Johnson
12-27-03, 11:31
Old Asia Hand, allow me to explain this. There are girls that charge you 300 and there are girls that charge 600, 800, up to X000. In China, unlike some other countries like Thailand where the girls pocket the entire amount, the girl will almost always have to give half the money to her "manager". They pretty much never work alone even if they are working on the street or working in a dance club. The manager can be older lady, a pimp/boyfriend etc. Even at Hardrock a freelancer has to pay 200 everytime just to get in with no promise of her getting business. You all ask why the heck does the manager gets so much. Among other reasons, money is set aside in case the girl gets busted, arrested etc. Then the funds will be used to bail her out. The managers helps out the girls in many other ways such as lodging etc. Furthermore, at the end of the day, often the girls give all the money to the manager! Often the funds are also used so that the girls can get expensive visas to work elsewhere.

If the girl charges 600, the manager gets 300. If you pay 400, then the girl gets only 100! Then you seriously underpaid her. But she wont want to get into all this manager stuff with you. What for? Besides people dont like the idea the money goes to someone else.

She gets into trouble going back to her manager with only 400. The manager wont like it because then it creates mistrust-did you pocket 200? The manager knows where the girl is, sometimes they are watching her, or they keep in touch by phone, or the other girls watch her.

So whether it is at Hardrock cafe, a girl waving at you on the street, or a BBS, all the girls have to shell out about half to someone else. It is grossly unfair to use the idea that someone else charges you 300 and the next girl charges 600, and just come up with your own price 400.

12-27-03, 12:34
Dick Johnson,

I beg to differ that the 50/50 split applies universally across China. I have lived here 10 years myself, and have learned a bit about the game. I am nearly certain that in this case the girl gets to keep the amount over and above the house fee. I am absolutely certain this applies to all of the BBS I go to in Shenzhen. IMHO, she is trying to get as much for herself as possible and I admit she probably does get more money most of the time. My mistake was not to refuse to accept the service (obviously little brother was doing the thinking), her mistake was to think I would pay more than I had offered after the deed was done. It is not a matter of what she could get or what others will pay, but rather what I offered to pay which I thought was clearly stated. She had the option to refuse, but rather continued with the service. If she had stopped, I might have reconsidered my needs and the price. She did not give me the option until it was over. This was not fair.

Just my POV.


12-28-03, 07:01
Certainly a difficult situation.

I don't think it is a 50/50 split either but I am sure it is in some places and this is the reason why some girls will negotiate to come to your room after they finish work (say 2:00am) or outside the hotel for a lower price during the day perhaps.

Certainly the larger the establishment the larger their component of the split is, and usually (but not always) the more one has to pay.

Also bear in mind that the girls working in the 4/5star hotels have a very privilaged position, with higher level customers compared to working in the nearby barber shop or freelancing in a disco. Hence they are very aware of the power of the mamasan or whoever.

By the way, you come across in all of your posts OAH as a real decent nice chap, sucker or not. Hey but lets all not end up being visited by Marleys ghost.:-)

12-29-03, 01:47
Well, in my opinion, that "50/50" split is rarely true but then again, especially for you and I, OAH, hotel girls aren't our first option, right? ;)

I think the girl was being a ***** and you did the right thing by physcially tossing her out, but then again, I wouldn't have done the deed until there was some kind of oral agreement on the price.

Also, I'm sure if you weren't obviously a foreigner, it would have been totoally different...


12-29-03, 01:50
What??? I just noticed that if I type the word "b*itch" it will be automatically censored but I can type the following:

cum, fuck, shit, cock, pussy, motherfucker, asshole

without being censored? Ha ha...


12-29-03, 04:07
I believe that the mamason gets 50rmb if she is from BBS or the street pimps however in Hotels the management gets about 200rmb and the girl gets whatever she can.

12-29-03, 07:49

I think Jackson has a thing for treating the women we pay to play with respect. Hence, words like b itch etc are censored.

I must say, I do treat the women with respect - except for when I unload on an unsuspecting face and get that nasty look : )


12-29-03, 14:25
Fellow Mongers:

Thank you all for your advice. Bottom line is I should have waited until the price was definitively agreed before I accepted the service. Frankly, I did not think about any repercussions of throwing her out. I may have been lucky that nobody came back to visit. I do remember one previous post of mine where I did advise a fellow monger to pay the extra to avoid trouble. It may have just been her attitude that pissed me off.

Johnny, I guess we have been spoiled by all that cheap BBS pussy.

Csun/Rayman: I have had KTV girls in certain hotels meet me after work so they did not have to give mommy 200RMB which I believe is the standard cut for KTV mamasans in Guangdong.

Happy Holidays!


P.S. Rayman, are you referring to Jacob Marley? A very fitting analogy for this time of year!

12-31-03, 16:04

You must be the master of seduction. I have much to learn from you (line from Cultural Revolution period). 25 min is stellar. I am kicking myself a bit as there was a hot, hot, hot woman (I am typically VERY rare to give this level of compliment) who came into a hair place. I had obstacles as my wife goes there frequently and the wife was waiting for me, so a walkup would have been risky, but I would have tried if I had more time. I have learned Chinese are the worst at keeping secrets.

Do you make your approaches in Chinese? If so, please write me and let me know you basic approach. Please contact me via a private message using the WSG Forum's Private Message service. Or we can schedule a time to get together.



01-02-04, 03:47

I usually grab my groin whilst thrusting my hips forwards and screaming "Come on babe take some of this"...works everytime particularly in public places.


I am just a good looking guy, what more can I say. However one tip. If you spend the same amount of thought / time / money on the teenage office girl as chasing dirty barbershop girls you would have instant success, lots of free sex and avoid all the health pitfalls and legal entanglements.

01-04-04, 04:09

I partially agree with you, but being married creates quite a few obstacles that the BBS's solve (place, available nearly 24x7, selection). If I were single, I think I would be hell on wheels, but alas I am not.

I will try your 'fang fa' (method) and see what happens. Know of any good chinese lawyers to help me get bailed out?

Do you speak Chinese well? To date no health or legal problems, knock on wood.

Thirty Mins
01-06-04, 19:00
Hotel BBS will always be more expensive than outside, but this is for many reasons.

Obviously, like your minibar, the hotel BBS girls offer more convenience than running outside and searching. In the case of a Coke, you pay 5-10 times the price. For hotel BBS service, it could be 2-3 times the price, as you've experienced.

Another factor is safety. While many brothers here have no qualms about escorting some new-found friend into a hotel, we've all heard stories of being stopped by security, or having the police knock on the hotel door. Hotel BBS girls are the safest from a law enforcement point of view, because a good chunk of money finds its way back to the hotel (high rent prices for the shop, etc.). Even in the middle of a crackdown, you don't need to worry about calling for such services. A sauna or BBS can always be raided.

Even Chinese pay high prices. One reason is that some guys have good connections with the police in their home town, but could be in big trouble if caught in another city. Sometimes westerners can get away with such things, but other times we can get caught too.

OK, so there are advantages, but prices are high and girls will try to ask for more afterwards. I have experienced this problem myself.

The only solution is to negotiate a total price before. Girls will often try to get a "tai fei" (house fee) afterwards, in addition to the agreed price. I got cheated this way before.

There is a way to deal with it: when negotiating the price, don't just ask "duo shao?" (how much), ask "zong gong duo shao?" (how much in total). Also, confirm again "bao kuo tai fei ma?" (does that include the house fee?).

Also it is good to say that you only have a little money "wo zhi you X kuai qian". Think through things before the girl gets in the room and your brain shuts down.

Net Egg
01-07-04, 06:52

How do you get freebies by going to online chat rooms? Any particular server and rooms that you can recommend? What are the tactics that you used and proven to be effective?

Rambling Guy
01-07-04, 19:20
I agree with Rayman, if you go to China on a regular basis, it's much easier to find a sharp college girl or office professional who's a virgin, never had a boyfriend, and if they like you right away, it takes about two weeks to get that first kiss and usually by the next date they're spending the night.

Once they love you, they'll do anything and they're quick learners. It's way cheaper and they're great company besides.

Most high class girls won't date until they get out of college, but they tend to make exceptions for western guys. Lucky us!

01-09-04, 04:44
The only problem with a Virgin is that when you break it off with her there will be problems. Knew a Taiwan friend who took a girl's virgin, then when things didn't work out between them, tried to break it off and the girl's family send people to get him. He had to leave his business in China and run back to Taiwn. Remember it doesn't take a lot of money to have someone killed in China. Never mess with a Virgin unless you are thinking about marrying her. Ask anyone who have stayed in China for a while and they will tell you.

Rambling Guy
01-09-04, 09:10
Thanks for the advice. I guess I was lucky so far but I'll be more cautious in the future!

01-11-04, 06:31
I have had only 3 virgins (in 8 years) and each one ended in tears (for them and heavy regrets for me)...the last time I had the chance I backed down at the very last moment (upon her quivering body) and told her to fall in love first, and that I was a complete bast**d. I know she will probably end up being deceived by some other guy but it gets to a point in which i get sick of cheating. Mostly I stick to women with hubbys or with bf's, lots of fun and no hassles.

I speak Chinese well, Tangzhen.

01-12-04, 02:21
The only virgin I have had in China is the one I married. Virginity is still a very valuable possession for most Chinese women. Loss of it may limit their ability to get a good Chinese husband, although this is changing with time, especially in cities. If you take it from them, they expect that you are very serious about the relationship, even contemplating marriage. Best to stay with those with prior experience.

I believe many western men may be fooled with the lack of direct communication from Chinese women. Unlike many of their counterparts in the West, they do not always verbalize their feelings in a straightforward way. They often expect you to read between the lines.

Having said that, I know there are virgins for sale in China. Last offer I had in DG was RMB7,500 for 3 days. I declined. Not my cup of tea.

Just my POV.


01-15-04, 05:02
Greetings from the States, I'm planning a trip to BJ in a few months and love reading the great stories and advice you guys have written.

For now I have questions about a local situation. I've flirting with a waitress, 2 years gone Fu Jian, and have spent a couple of afternoons with her. I'm trying to get something better going with her. My Mandarin is very rusty (I mongered regularly in TaiPei, etc many years ago). I've been using online dictionaries to prepare my pitches, and came across a term for what I'm really hoping to be: "SugarDaddy" , "tienhsin ba ba". My questions: Is this a phrase a 23 year old would be familiar with (or simply a literal translation of the English SugarDaddy). If it's a real term, would it have a nastier connotation than it does in English? (although she tells me she only nets $10/day waitressing, she's bought a $250 coat and a $150 cell phone and spent $150 on New Year presents for her friends; so I don't know how good a motivator money will be. I told her if I were here boyfriend I'd of bought her the coat but she shrugged it off).
Would appreciate any any info on tienhsin ba ba and any advice on strategy with this young lovely.

Thanks in advance

01-17-04, 10:47
Why don't you just take her out for a meal, or promise to teach her English free. Advertising yourself as a Sugerdaddy is, in my view, doomed to failure, unless she is a prostitute, then just throw 100 bucks on the table with your address on it, and have done with the charade.

In all likelihood she may already have some rich chinese business 'friends', hence the 'gifts'.

01-17-04, 19:52
Thanks Rayman,

Already bought her a meal and a couple of small items, but she passed on my hint about buying her the $240 coat, so I don't think she's a pro.

When I told her I could only continue these once per week afternoons together if they are "dates", she said she wasn't interested. So I figure any sex would be a long term, long shot campaign and, given my circumstances, not worth the risk and investment. UNLESS, her resistence is a "typical Chinese" response?

P.S. She just called and I agreed to give her a ride home from the bus station on Tuesday. Also, I'm older than her father and let her know I'm separated (sort of).
Any further advice on scoring from you old China hands would really be much appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

01-18-04, 14:41

I agree with Rayman, the Sugardaddy strategy is likely not your best bet unless you want to assume the Chinese version of such. You may be vary familiar with all that entails, if not, dont go there. Personally I would not and I agree that finding some common ground is likely the best way to go and see how you might fit in well with her thinking. Reading between the lines is tough for us long noses as there are lots of cultural items we would not pick up on in addition to the language thing, thus expect it to take more time.

That being said, you have a lot of advantages, you need to see how being different is going to help you and work on it.

01-18-04, 17:50
Thank you TangZhen,

As you and Rayman advise, I'll steer clear of the SugarDaddy tact. Despite the low wage she reports, money does not seem to be a major motivator. The main need I seem to be satisfying is for a transporter / companion / translator / guide.

She lives together in a with bunch of co-workers in job associated housing. She is very careful about being SEEN leaving or returning with me. Insists on day time pickup. I figure she'd lose face if her co-workers saw her DATING an old white guy? However, she's not shy at all about being seen in the malls with me, but my marital status makes it risky for me.

My question of you experts out there: Based on your experience, how big an obstacle would you guess my age, 50, and marital status (wife lives 400 miles away), would be for a brave 23 year old Chinese girl?

Thanks again in advance.

01-19-04, 08:59
The fact that she called you is a very good sign. No obstacle on the age, but be careful about the 'face' thing, and don't put her into a situation that may embarrass her. (i.e pet her infront of her friends, or stare/smile at her) - she will run and run. I think that is the biggest reason why foreigners fail with the freebies.

You may have more success if you are cold towards her in front of her mates but at the same time try and get time ALONE with her - back at your pad, to cook her a meal??

Better get some pictures posted mate...:-))

01-20-04, 05:08
Rayman, et al,

Thanks for the encouragement, but "...get some pictures posted", come on, give me a break. That's at least a few hours away;-)

It sounds like she's got nothing going for Chinese New Year's. I don't have much time Wednesday, but I'll at least offer to take her to a nice lunch. Any ideas on something which she'd especially appreciate under her deprived/"ke hsi" CNY circumstances?

Thanks again in advance.


01-21-04, 15:17

While viewing some of the past articles and told my friend how much findings I can get here in this forum. Great job! Now some serious problem he had with his gf who is in China. He asked me to search for some private investigator for him on the Internet. I managed to get 2-3 but they never did respond to the email my friend ask me to sent (he doesn't like comp that much nor have limited Internet access).

Now since most of our forumers here had been to China or even work there, is there by any chance that you could introduce or pass me the contact of those detective/private investigation to me? That's all I need and my friend will do the ground work. I believe he suspect his gf in China is cheating on him, telling me that she had divorce with her hubby and staying out alone. So I guess all he need is just some basic adultery or affair investigation on the legal site.

Your information is highly appreciate. PM me on the contacts. Thanks again.

01-21-04, 18:30

To my eye you are getting things a bit better in focus, unfortunately you are running into the obstacles all us married guy run into.

What you likely want is a QingFu, what she is a bit shy about is being seen as a loose girl. It is fine to have a friend and maybe a lover for her as long as it is vague enough not to attract attention.

The really painful aspect would be if she finds out you are married and feels it unfair that you did not let her know, at which point you are pretty much sure to have some significant issues in your life. You are likely better off seeing what she wants and how motivated she is to have a partner for not marriage. The problemm is that sometimes they get clingy which makes the wife thing VERY complicated, and the 200 RMB for a rental will look really nice. Single guys have a massive advantage here. If you explore her needs and what she is looking for and how you might fill some of those needs (no pun intended), you will be in a much better position when it come time to have her compromise in order to avoid the wife.

Just my point of view.

01-22-04, 07:18
tz, et al,

thanks for your insights. to be clear, this mini drama is taking place in the usa. the girl is basically "just off the boat" (left fujian 2 years ago).

funny, during our first afternoon she non chalantly asked about my taitai (assuming i had one). i admitted that i had a wife who lives and works 500 miles away (true, and i had decided i was gonna tell her anyway). funny because during our 10 rep001tered hours together since, i was the only one to mention my wife (in expaining the danger of being seen around town with a young lady.)

since my last post, she beat me to the punch by calling to get together on new years day. after a huge lunch (which she tried to pay for) we had some very pleasant moments but she resisted going anywhere remote (e.g. drive to the local lake). then, as during our previous afternoon, i nicely told her, given the risks, etc. there could be no more afternoons together since she was not interested in dating. i was more direct this time. we agreed we'd look foward to seeing each other at the restaurant where she works. so unless she calls looking for something to do on a future day off, and agrees it's a date, story over.

oh tz, you used the term, qingfu, what's that mean? and yueh hwei means simply "date" or "dating", not courtship, right?

thank you guys for your help.

Crazy Jim Wood
01-22-04, 08:54
I believe he suspect his gf in China is cheating on him, telling me that she had divorce with her hubby and staying out alone. So I guess all he need is just some basic adultery or affair investigation on the legal site.

Hey, Dragon heart,
Just post her phone number, address and going rate and we'll all go by and see if she does adultery!

Big Looser
01-23-04, 06:45
Dear all fellow WSG members,

It's my first post to the forum. I really really need your advice and views on many aspect of scenario, the game that she currently trying to play and hide from me. Judging from everyone experience, I draw the currently dilemma I had and hoping everyone could at contribute something for me and the rest.

Story line
She is from China. I met her by friends recommendation. She told me she was tricked down to work here (as a hostress initially) but being push into prostituition. She cried for a week and resist to work, but after so much pursuading from workmate, she have to work. Then on, she knew me and we spend our time together. While she was bailed out by another guy and promise him for 3 month companion, she fulfilled the 3 months and stay with me. In that period of 3 months, I already start hooking her up and have our usual dating without the other guy knowledge.

Then she stay with me for about 2 months, and it's time for me to send her back. Bought her the ticket and etc, she fly back to China. We'd made lots of promises that this separation is only for a while and soon she will return to me. She told me she had something to settle when she go back there. We chat over the phone everynight. Until after 2 weeks afterward, she cried and had some problem there. Then I keep guessing until I guess the right thing, she had a legal married hubby back in China. She told me she doesn't love him and things cannot be settled cause it doesn't seem to be easy as she thought. Told me that she come here to work last time is because her hubby have cohabilation and she had a heart broken, that's why come here and work. She tried to break up with me on the phone, but I insist I will support her morally. In the end, we didn't breakup still.

One day, her hubby call me. Sounds very angry and tell me if I want to talk, go to China and talk to him. Insist to talk to her, but not allow. She had told her hubby about me and her. Emotionally worried and scare if he will do anything to her, so I decided to look for her. I flied to China and look for her, spend a week together at different province and understand the situation much clearer (all told from her). She also brought her bro to see me for couple of hours and had a light meal together. she said she love me deeply and willing to give up everything for the sake of me. Tried to tell her come back down here and we'll be together. But apparently her country resist or temporary holding her passport for 1/2 year or 2 years before she can come down again. So the idea is useless.

When I'm there, I get to know they are both now staying together. She is confused of what to do and I ask her to think for herself, staying with someone she don't love doesn't bring any happiness. The main reason I see here is that she can't let go the house which is under her name, that she used to work hard to pay for the installment. But again, her hubby condition said if she want the house, he will not divorce her. Told her to take at least 1 week to think about it, think for herself and not me. Divorce will solve lots of problem, though not with me but it'll be beneficial for her such as if she own something else, after divorce they will not belong to her hubby where he might treaten her the same thing like the house case. After 1 week, she then divorce him, the house change name and she got nothing now. She is currently outside renting a room while looking for a job.

Her hubby call me again, told me that I got what I wanted already. They already divorce. Starting telling me something new to me, all about her. Told me that she used to live in villagers, divorce is like leaving a bad reputation to her. She is so skinny now due to mentally torture and all the pressure from friends & family who discourage her to divorce. But she already took that step. Told me that she tell different story in front of him, lie a lot to him. Told me last time she doesn't want to work but play cards at home. Told him she actually intend to go down here to work, but he discourage. She insist and finally come down here but regret later cause it is not what she thought working as hostress. Now it feels like his hubby is trying to physco me to leave her cause she is a witch who will try to get with you and I pay for all her livings (if marry her). He even told me that after she come down here for 1 week, she call back to him and say she regret coming down here and ask him to rescue her. He is 47 years old while she is 31 years old. His hubby make me feel like trusted me and give me his mobile so I can contact him anytime to ask for info or advice. He told me he have all the past experience that I've been through and my condition now is like in dilemma and sympathy only. It won't last long. I guess he still doesn't know that I plan to work in China later.

Big Looser
01-23-04, 06:50
Second part (last part of the story)

I do not that both of them do communicate, but not sure to which extend. They may be exchanging info for this conning but that is something uncertain. So I'm trying to guess what game they are playing and set the right trap for her to fall into and know the whole picture. I do still want to be with her after all this shit things past, she had the quality of a wife which I always want. But I need to know the truth!

Perception of the hubby (after conversation on the phone with him):

- she is a lazy wife, play cards at home.
- she refuse to listen to his advice, she fly here to work and get cheated.
- he tried hard to rescue her but he can't.
- now she is back, got to know me that help her so much when she's down here.
- she ask to divorce cause she said she rather hurt him than hurting me.
- he tried rationally telling her she should not divorce and win her back.

Perception of her:

- his hubby cheated in her relationship.
- she got heart broken and wish to leave the country.
- she got cheated and regret for the consequences.
- she met me, and I help her.
- she start to love me and willing to sacrify for me.
- she went back with intention to divorce him but got herself into trouble (caused by house ownership).
- confused overtime when confronting of getting back the house with wanting to divorce.
- chose to divorce and forget about the house, trusted me and she move out and get a job.
- hoping I will be with her.

My perception:

- love her whole heart and wish to marry her.
- when she is with me down here, she hardly ask for any money. I just give her money to buy foods.
- after she got back china also didn't ask for money.
- heart broken after knowing she had hubby.
- trying to make her happy, motivate her and comfort her when she is sad.
- trust her for her instinct to divorce and be with me.
- she always warn me that there may be more problems ahead if we are together (sounds like she had intention be with me).
- told me not the right time to meet her parents because she just divorced but can bring me see her friends.
- willing to give up my job here and work in China and see how things goes.
- my commitment to work for 1 year in China, then evaluate back if she is the one for me.
- if she is, will marry her and get her down to my home.
- start feeling funny when her hubby call me, why her hubby know so much about me and why she tell him.
- why not her hubby start physco me about how witch or dangerous this woman is.
- are they really divorce? Is he the minder trying to swindle me?
- if she is not conning me, she had divorce him, will see what her intention is.
- is she joined a group of female who is doing similar thing conning guys? Am I another victim?
- but she hardly have real friends even when she's down here, she can't mix around well with others.
- she's not the easy type of going, sensitive to the words I speak and cried if my words hurt her so much.

That's my lengthy story. Any single piece of info and advice really could get me out of this cloudy day. Well, again thank you so much for listening!

01-23-04, 10:35

I think you are getting close to the answer. I could be wrong but I would bet she wants public places so she can have some 'safe' fun and avoids private locations becasue she is not into that type of relationship at this point.

QingFu means mistress. Qing basically means feeling and Fu is associated with wife (FuRen), put the two together and it has the meaning of a wife based on feeling (as opposed to legal). Another term is WaiRen which can also mean foreigner if you use a different tone. Dont you just love this language, so complex. Sorry to any Chinese if I got any of these incorrect.

As for a term for date, frankly I dont know. I would not give you a term unless I had herd it used as dictionaries often use words that are only good in specific contexts and dont well illustrate.

01-24-04, 05:32
Yueh Hwei simply means an appointment for 2 (or more) people to meet at a certain time & place. It does not imply a date, as in dating between a man & woman.

01-24-04, 05:40
Thanks Genius8,

Do you or anyone else out there know the word for "a date" and "dating"? My "target" (a native speaking girl) is the one who started using the term when I asked for the Chinese for "a date". That's the term we've been using during several meetings she keeps saying are not of the "yueh hwei" variety :-(

Thanks for any help.

01-24-04, 07:04
Hi Big Looser, first what country do you live at? Second, I have heard of girls like her from my Taiwan friends. The Chinese girls are getting smarter. They used to ask for money all the time and found out that most of the guys just run. Now they don't ask for money, make you feel like money is not important to them. Get the guys to fall hard for them and then they can get all the money they want out of the saps.

Marrying a Chinese girl when you are not Chinese is very difficult. Even Taiwan guys have problems with their Chinese wives. There is the language problem, then there is the culture problem. A Chinese family will never accept outside their race. Some won't even accept Taiwanese. Would she feel left out when you are with your friends speaking in your language and won't you feel left out when you are with her family speaking Mandarin?

I am not trying to tell you how to live your life but I am a Chinese-American and have lived in the U.S. since I was 5 years old. Speak fluent Chinese, worked in Taiwan as a General Manager for 10 years. Have dated a lot of Chinese girls both from Taiwan and Mainland. Have quite a few Taiwan and American Chinese friends who have married Chinese girls so I do know the problems that will face you if you decide to get serious about her.

As for finding out about her real background, it would only cost you about 1500rmb to hire a private eye to check her out. Just try to get her ID number if possible, findout which city she was born and lived and he will find out everything about her. Warning, do not pay the PI more than 500rmb to start the job. Pay more money each time he gives you a report on her and her family. You must also check out her parents because in China if her parents owes money, then the daughter is on the hook for the money also.

Sorry to go on so long but this is just the tip of the iceburg.

Three I
01-24-04, 07:11
Big loser,

I think you should cut and run! She has emotional problems and she is going to fuck your world up. A hooker is a hooker first be careful she is fucking with your feelings that is her job!

Lubricate It
01-24-04, 12:28
Big Loser

I agree with Three X. Try and cut your losses and run (easier said than done, I know). I went thru something like this in the very first posts on this board. It has decimated me for 2 years, though I think it's behind me now. There are millions of attractive young women in China who don't carry baggage like you are dealing with.

01-24-04, 14:43
Big L,

Would be interesting to know your country, your age, and your status back home. In other words do you have the pick of the ladies or have you been single for several years and face a lonely older-life.

The problem is that you" love her with your heart". Difficult situation mate, and none of the know-it-all lady-lovers on this site will help you. Every relationship has problems whether you marry the girl next door or someone on the other side of the world. If you follow your heart you will have no regrets, listen to someone else and you may well have.

I would be tempted to go to China and try it out for a year as you have suggested. If no good just pack it all in. You have lost nothing, just get back your old job later.

Big Looser
01-25-04, 10:10

I live in Singapore and yes this is not my first encounter with Chinese girls. They are getting smarter, smarter to an extend where none of us here can imagine how they turn out like that!

But I try to out-smart the girl, observing her and other girls where she work. In my observation, I believe my eyes and ear that she could not mix along well with those more 'evil' pros whom I know. Spoke to those 'evil' pros and all of them just don't like my girl hence I do trust she is not evil at all. But again who will knows, the truth is still out there unexplored. I am a chinese born in Singapore so she would not have any problem adapt to the environment here and get along with my friends. Remember she stayed with me 2 months? She met most of my friends and my friends comment her as being nice person to talk to. Introducing my friends to her is my objective to set a trap and let her fall in it, it's like if she really a *****, she'll seduce them but it doesn't happen. Where one of my friend trying to be funny hug her, he end up with a slap. He he! I appreciate your view and honesity with your experience heard and feel dealing with those girls out there. Care to share your story with us? ;-)

Do you have any network contact for private eyes as mention? 1500rmb is no big deal and I will try to get her ID number. Please PM me any private eye that you know, it definitely help alot! Gracious!

ThreeX & L It,
If she is my first encounter, I fuck her off long ago without messing my world up and down. A hooker is always a hooker, but hey not all are bad! They are human after all, moreover my is cheated to work for a short period. I had read your first post about your encounter and I sympathy with your situation. I guess it'll never hurt enough if I haven't knock myself up! Jesus christ!

Singaporean, 27 and my status is being single. 2 years in pros activities and these my second encounter. First encounter screw her up! She fall in my trap and adios! It is true that whichever relation have it's own problem. If I follow my heart, I will regret later, but if I listen to wsg experience, I have my caution and bottom line to cut when it turns out! Yah hell, just spend a year in China and get into the scene! At most, I waste a year!

Best of all brudder!

Three I
01-26-04, 07:07
She is selling you an illusion of reality not reality. I think it would be best if you cut your losses. You can find a non pro and she may love you just as much as this girl says she loves you.

She is not the only girl in the world for you. I have met countless men in the military who have married or are divorced from hookers and the shit was not all rosy! I have seen women (my friend mothers) leave their families because3 they just couldn't leave the money.

Also most of their mothers friends are or were hookers. Also, what kind of influence does that have on a relationship? She doesn't like her job! Shit I don't like my job but it is work! Who on this board loves their work!

You are the knight in shining armor saving the sweet woman from her life. The moment you solve her problems you will become her problem. This is the truth I did it and was dropped 2 months later and the SOB she dropped me for may have married the *****! She was into serveral married agencies in the U.S. seeing several guys all over fucking L.A. (San Gabriel Valley) and I was bare backing her! I was so fucking stupid, I could have killed myself! On top of that she was fucking guys at a cAMP!

She may want a different identity after you marry her. She may drop you and start a new life with a new name or names then she may fine someone else!

Three X out!

01-26-04, 07:32
I agree with 3XXX that she will immediately found someone else if you two split up. That is for sure.

I will tell you a story here. Knew a girl in GZ, married to a guy in Alaska for a few years. She: mid 30's, him 60+, met him though a US/China internet dating agency and when he come over, they quickly married. She had come back to GZ for a months holiday, and quickly fell into my clutches (and my bed). She was devoted to him, no doubt and she loved him, looked after him went fishing together (saw the photos). I kept in contact with her older sister and subsequently she updated me on the relationship. This sister is now in canada, incidentally.

He died of a heart attack (They had been together 5 years) and she married the Policeman that attended the inquest.

Now some of you may say he had been taken advantage of. Perhaps. But she made his last few years on this earth happy ones. That is good and worth being taken advantage of. How many old men of 60 do we see back home leading a lonely boozed life.

BUT Big L, you are 27, too young. You must battle though this time and get someone (a sweetie) to fall in love with. Don't be a prat.

Throw away all the contact information you have, delete everything. STOP playing GAMES with her and yourself. What sort of bloke are you?

Be happy and don't think too much.

01-26-04, 08:46
Big L,

Just my 2RMB worth. I've met and tried to 'rescue' women my whole adult life. Starting with my first 'true love' who was an alcoholic stripper recently retuned from Alaska, then moving to a despondent artist with a beautiful voice and a small heroin habit. From there, a super cute and amazing performance artist that kept her energy level high by various substances - and her rent paid by dating. All I can say is this. DONT DO IT! Once they are in 'The Life' they never leave. It's completely embedded as part of their psyche. It's their escape mechanism and fallback for any situation. And it's how they deal with any relationship problems in defence. They know that you can easily be replaced by the next john with a few rmb and a shoulder to cry on.

You are making a big mistake, my friend, in pursuing this relationship. There are so many other women ready to work hard to create a good family, relationship and responsible postion with you. Take a step back and let your big head do some thinking.

I'd say most of the men here have probably succumbed to some level of this play and lost a little more than they choose to admit or acknowledge. I know I have! When you are out mongering please follow the 3F's as a religion! Look at the circumstance of your meeting! Deep inside, neither of you respect or trust each other fully - nor will that ever be the case.

Maybe we should start an intervention service for love struck mongerers. Or at least an MA hotline.


01-26-04, 08:51
Big Looser,

There is a saying about bar girls in Thailand, which is suitable for pros almost anywhere in the world,

"You can take a girl out of a bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl."

Having said that, I have seen a very, few exceptions to the rule over the years, but the odds are extremely high against it working out once she crosses the line.

There are millions of beautiful women in China without all the issues and baggage. Put the PI money towards a plane ticket and come on over for a year and check it out for yourself.

Just my POV.


Thirty Mins
01-26-04, 17:46
Big Looser,

You are a young man in love, and she is a Chinese girl. There is no question about who is going to be smarter. Mainland Chinese women are the most determined in the world.

Even if you are ethnic Chinese from Singapore, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking you understand them. You were raised in two seperate worlds. Ask any Taiwanese guy with a Shanghainese girlfriend and he will tell you, they are both Chinese but that doesn't mean they are the same.

I would not reassure myself because the other working girls don't like her. Every profession has its etiquette and honor, even that one.

01-27-04, 03:11
Hey, L (and advisors),

I was just browsing when I found this thread. Hope you don't mind if I chime in.

There is an element of truth to what OAH and Sojurn have to say; "the life" IS a fall back for many (if not all) of these women. It is just like any trade or position. Who among us wouldn't "fall back" on our most lucrative vocation in a pinch? But, what does that prove?

Look, there are all kinds of convoluted emotions and values swirling around this issue. We f*ck these women because that is our biological imperitive. The f*ck us back because that is how they make a living. But... they are still women of the human species. Time and space don't permit me to launch into a full philosophical discussion of whether or not ALL women are *****s, but that case can be made. Hell, I think the mission statement of this website is such that we are sharing information so we can f*ck for as little monetary expenditure as possible. They are trying to MAKE as much money as possible. Does anyone on this board ascribe a higher motivation to most of the women in the U.S.? Europe? Africa? Come on, this is the way the game is played, it only varies by degree. Does anyone here think Anna Nicole LOVED that old vulture she married? Men are looking to save the vulnerable Princess, women are looking to be saved by Prince Charming. Why do you all think that is such a common theme? Because it is so fundamentally real. The customer/provider relationship breaks it down into the most basic of transactions, stripping away (pardon the pun) all the horse-sh*t that "civilized" society has slathered on the male/female dance.

Someone further down the thread alluded to finding a higher quality partner. Well, guess what? That is no guarantee! The mother of my two daughters, white American, good family, upper middle class, no drug problems, seemingly the perfect wife, ended up cheating on me with FIVE different guys while I was away at the office. THEN she left me with the two kids (thank God!). Nobody knows...

My first wife, many many years ago, was the perfect wife. I was too young and stupid to know. She worked, both in and out of the house. She treated me like a king. Cooking, cleaning, sex on demand.. you name it, she did it. Problem? I was, once again, young and stupid. She was from the Philippines, I met her in a bar while I was in the Navy. She was a pro, made her living the only way she could. But, I'll tell you this..... she was the most faithful, loyal, dedicated and hard working woman I've ever known. She would have gladly stepped in front of a train for me. That is no exaggeration. Her big drawback was jealousy; she didn' t want me to be out going to night school. Probably insecurity. I could have handled it, but.... young and stupid.

I'm thinking you have a pretty well defined group of guys frequenting this board. From the looks of it, many of them have had bad experiences with women, both professional AND non-professional. If a life of fidelity to one pure, angelic maiden is THE way to assure happiness and freedom from heart break, what the f*ck are we all doing HERE?

Your gal may have hardened herself to her position in life, but, don't kid yourself. She is still a human being (albeit a female human being), and she will respond to some of the feelings you are giving her. OR NOT!! Who knows? Is it worth the chance? Only you can decide. It is natural to be guarded about this type of relationship, but don't shut your eyes to the possibilities. It sounds to me like you are infatuated, but it also sounds like you are keeping your eyes open and being somewhat analytical rational about this gal and your relationship with her. That is all you can do in ANY situation, L. Just give it your best shot.... over time you will BOTH learn more about each other and show more to each other. There are no guarantees, but that is true all the way around.

Good Luck, L. You won't need it any more or any less than the rest of us.

Spike, out.....

P.S. I have a suspicion that many guys are somehow kind of jealous, even if on a subconscious level, when a fellow comes up with the "perfect wife" story (or question).... "Hey, why can't that be me?? I'm at least as good as THAT clown!!". Take my advice, you can probably do worse than to follow your heart.

01-27-04, 09:31
Big L,
I've been following this thread for several days. In your most recent post, one comment hit me over the head.

You wrote "...my friends comment her as being nice person to talk to."

Well, buddy, I got news for you, if that's the best thing your friends had to say about her, then I can only conclude that either:
a) your friends didn't get to know her beyond chit-chat, in which case their opinion is basically useless (if she hadn't been nice to talk to, you probably wouldn't be caught up in her)
b) your definition of "friend" is not the same as mine
c) that was truly the best most unoffensive things your friends could say about her, and they don't have the heart (or balls) to tell you what they really think of her.

I'm willing to bet it ain't b).....so where does that leave her? If it's a), then I think you and her need to spend more time with your friends. If c)......

Lubricate It
01-27-04, 23:35
Big Looser

Despite this being is the sort of board it is, I think there is a huge amount of collective wisdom in the last 10 posts or so from guys who know what they're talking about. Summing up is more difficult.

I agree with Rayman and Spike that following your heart and she following her heart should be what you do.

But the important thing is you have to act now and decisively and take her out of her present environment, otherwise all you face is a lot of angst. She has to make a clean break, and you have to provide for her fully: sexually, socially, and financially for her to do this. Any good partnership should enable this. But unless you do this she will fall back on her present ways, even after marrying you.

As far as she's concerned her body is a depreciating asset and she needs to make the most of it now to provide for her future and her security. You need to convince her that the situation has changed and it has changed now!

Otherwise forget her and turn a new page. You will quickly find lots of fine women out there.

Si Ma Yi
01-29-04, 08:04
Big Looser,

I've read your story and forumers' advice. I was in a relationship with a Thai ho. I am a Malaysian Chinese. I too wanted to "rescue her" from her trait. My friends' advice to dump her was useless. I chalked it up as my friends' ignorance of not knowing her which led them to conclude that she was exploiting me financially.

Long story short, she left me for a fellow Malaysian when I was broke. I don't know your girl personally but a ho is a ho in any country.

Be strong and say your goodbye.


02-01-04, 10:20
Big Looser,

Read your whole posting and fellower's advises too.

What I should say is that a relationship must build up by time goes. Progressive relationship for you and her is highly insisited.

Do take your time to understand her more.

I am a Malaysian, 45 age, I do have the same relationship with a lovely 18 haerbin girl who first work in pro line. Last year September, her virginity was lost to me as I paid to pimp. At the end I 'rescued' her and sent her back to her home, a small town 100km away from Haerbin. I did paid a lot of money for her family and encourage her to make her new life. We love each other very much. Because of nationality, culture, education, origin and much more is the understanding ,reliability and trust, I never marry her. I care more about her future and life. I want her to be happy in her life. Now, she is a hard working girl and set up a small garment shop in haerbin with her family. I visit Beijing quite often for business trip. For sure, everytime I will arranged and meet her in Beijing. I can share her happiness and smile always.

Judge your relationship with her carefully, take care and take time. Be more sensitive and reasonable. True love is difficult to find, but it still existing.

Hope you can understand what I am to express to you.

Octopussy in Beijing

Dog Day
02-02-04, 06:08
New to the forum and would like to share and get some information from members regarding tips on how / where to meet, know and date girls in China. I had my success and failures and I have learned to adjust my approach Hopefully others can share their experiences so I can improve my next strategy. Will share experiences by giving a date # and how /what happened with this approach.

I have met all my "friends" through the internet. Its a numbers game. I estimate less than 30% will respond, and 25% of that will be of dating potential for varying reasons, appearance, appeal, personality and the most important of all: You are just not her type.

I am Asian, but I am tall and athletic. My dates always guess I am less than 35. Well, I say yes. Thats a lie, but I fear these girls will not want to go out with a 47 year "old man". I think I am average looking. I have heard dates tell me straight that i am not good looking, while other will say I am OK. I am not a golden collared expatriate, but two 200 RMB dates a week will not ruin my budget. I have a family, but I can keep this a "secret".

Girl# 1:

23 year old Office girl from Beijing. Met in yahoo. Chat for two days. Met after office. 6 in looks 7 body. Had simple dinner and drinks. Asked her if she wants to see my place and she said yes.

Went directly for it and had sex the first date. She was good in bed but after two more dates I felt I had enough. She also smokes which I dislikes. Did not go out with her anymore.

We still keep in touch.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to capitalize the word "I". To avoid future delays, please use a capital "I" to refer to yourself in future reports. Thanks!

Sound Stream #2
02-03-04, 02:27
Big Looser,

People tend to be blind to a lot of things when they think they're in love. If your friends or other warn you against going after a "pro," you might blow them off as being ignorant, when in fact, they're trying to help you prevent an obvious mistake. My opinion is that a hoe is hoe. You can't change that. A hoe's mind is all messed up already from the lifestyle she lived, and because of all her emotional scars, and bad habits, there is no way this can ever lead to any long term happiness between you and her. Don't kid yourself. You're only asking for trouble and misery if you marry her.

Some people feel the need to rescue girls from their situation because of something they lack in their own life. The truth is, its not up to you to rescue her. She has to be willing to take the first steps to help herself. By trying to rescue her, you're only going to drag yourself down to the point where you can't even pull yourself up.

And I think you've really got to take a deep breath and open your eyes for a change, because you're obviously missing sight of a lot of cute and respectable Chinese girls who can cook, clean, and take good care of you. So obviously, you've been asleep. Wake up!!!

By the way, lets get a survey:

Have you ever heard of anyone marrying a long term PRO and am happy? Let me hear your shouts and stories!

Logic and reason will tell you, "No Way!"

Whether anyone reading this agrees or not, if you got a story to tell, just post it out.

Hopefully, Big Looser will learn something from watching the experience of many others who have gone through it, or seen someone else go through it.

Big Looser
02-04-04, 12:21
progress report:

thanks for all the brudder concern and sincere comment. with respect to my story, i find a true source of light and confident that i can make a difference among the experience that we had shared. she had went back to china few months ago, and my early post actually include the report of my first trip there to china, not the province where she stay (because she is still married). these time, i will post the 2nd part of the story.

just happen last week, i visit her for 2nd time. it was 1 week holidays (chinese new year) and i intended to inspect the story behind all this. i told her in advance that i am going there. upon arrival, she greet me happily together with her younger sister and her friend's hubby (who is a taxi driver). the weather is freaking cold (5 degree only). then i was brought to a small town (a village in fact) where she rent for rmb150 per month. she had stay in this small room (less than 400 square feet, 1 kitchen, 1 toilet and 1 room) for 2 weeks after divorce with her hubby.

if everyone could recall my report earlier, her ex-hubby took over the house after divorce, even the house belong to her legally. that's the condition her ex put if she want to divorce. she already did that, she even show me the divorce letter and book where each divorce couple will have one. got in the rented apartment, heart bleed seing the place she stay is in such bad condition. the place i notice is indeed new and organized just like she had move in a couple of weeks only. she give up her house and relation with her ex, because she want to take the risk no matter be with me or not.

each day, we treasure each other, my mind still open for possible trap and trick she is playing. day by day, i observe nothing but plain disappointment for being single and start all over her life again in the age of 32 (yeah, she is older than me). even she did not admit that she is disappointing, i just feel it. she brought me to her close friend's house during the chinese new year, and next day she brought me to her cousin house. those are the close people she used to talk to, where all of those people she introduce me have already built their family. they treat me well and had dinner together. they also told me how stupid she was giving up her own 'hardly earned' assets after divorce, which indirectly make me felt guilty (i know she divorce partly because of me).

god knows what till turn out for the next few months. all the advice had been considered, no one could gurantee also if she's not a pro she will treat me sincerely. all the guesses if, then, else may valid but will broke the mutual trust of a relation.
being mature like her knows how many years she can live and what is important for her. though for me i have a small head, i think as big as others given so many views from the respected forumers here. my head think many otherwise, jumping out of the circle and think out-of-the-box. we develop trust and understanding of each other needs. how bad could she be, observing her surrounding friends and cousins that she indeed sincere in a relation, after all this visits? it is true we both came from different background, culture and i don't expect i could read her mind. i work things out, talk to her what i think and she be honest with me what she think and expect being together.

likewise what other brudder said, she will fall back if things doesn't turn out better than imagine. she never like being a pro nor being cheated to work for few months only. what can she fall back to? remarried to the same men again? even the most happiest man who married a beautiful wife does not gurantee a future. as an asian, we do believe that once you own and truthfully treat the other person whom you love, we never regret failing if the relation doesn't turn out to be good as imagine. if any of you had watch the singaporean movie, about the kids and shoes story, you may understand a life is what it takes ahead of you and not the past of a person. she understand what message i delivered to her, exploring her thinking and feeling will never be hard if you could read her basic 4 gesture/movement (speech, tone, body language and sentence). she already made her first step to get out of miserable life, leaving things that is suppose belong to her. this message is clear enough i am sure.

sincerely apologize if i bring too much emotions in this report, i'm fully arm and ready for the obstacle i will face in the future. in fact, in this country, my case is not the only one but there are many who will share my same thought. i am not demanding for a
perfect wife but i want to live with a person who i think is worth sacrifying for. i just want to be a reasonable person and expressive to how we both felt, then agree upon a same conclusion. i respect warning, advice, opinion and experience thought in this forum.

any comments are welcome. i am here to learn, not to regret what people had said. each day, i am getting wiser given views of respected forumers.

thank you.

Three I
02-05-04, 01:28
I guess you don't get it bro! I live near a U.S. military base in Riverside California. I have met many children of hookers and have heard many stories that are really bad.

I guess you have to learn like me!

02-05-04, 02:07
Frankly speaking I think in reality a lot of 'us' have married girls with very very dubious backgrounds and morales, but don't know it. Think it out for yourself. Most if not all pros are pros because of necessity not because of a carreer choice. However the girls in the disco on a Friday night who give it away weekly for free between he ages of 19 and 26 before settling down with someone, take your pick.

02-05-04, 04:07
Big L (not looser now),

After reading your second part report and your opinion, I believe your are more mature and advisable. I cant advise or provide any opinion today, but I am glad you can judge your relationship with her so nicely and prudence.

Dont call yourself a big looser anymore, like I address you as Big L. Hope to hear from you soon.

Be happier always.

Three I
02-05-04, 08:07
Just take care and warp it up Big L! As for choosing a job! When they came here, to the United States, illegally they knew what they were doing! What about the college students in Australia, Canada and the UK that are working in AMPs they can go home too! These girls don't have to fuck these are college students. Part of the game is for you to feel sorry for them! Play the game don't get played!

02-06-04, 03:45
Big L,

Whatever her background, you seem determined to try and make a go of the relationship with her. I will only caution you to take time and dig deeper before you take any drastic steps. I have been in Asia over 25 years and seen too many pros and the games they play. Do remember that she was cheating on her husband and another guy to be with you. The room in the village which you describe is common in China. Obviously, if she was on the game in Singapore, she does not come from a wealthy family. Have you ever seen the "house" she gave up?

One other bit of advice I would give you is to try and keep reading between the lines. Chinese women are not always as direct as we would like them to be.

Having said all that, I sincerely hope that you have found an exception to the rule and everything works out for you.


Big Looser
02-06-04, 09:49

It's excited to hear your opinion on this and your comment had relate to a wonderful discovery 2 days ago between me and her. We both talk frequently on the phone everyday and we determined that our main problem with our individual thought differs in term of expression and being direct to what message she want to deliver to me. You were right and I acknowledge my thought. In fact she commented that I 'overly think of the relation'. She told me she's a small minded girl which will commit to the decision she'd made. I'm being doubtful and ask many question repetitively but in different form (to cause confusion), maybe she dislike this and comment that I still did not trust her for her sincerity.

During my present in her province, she brought me to her cousin's apartment. Her "house" that she gave up is just few floors away from her cousin's apartment. She brought me to see her apartment before visit her cousin. The house is still unoccupied, she and me request the security guard for the key to visit the house (in fact the house is still using her name, that is why she is still authorize to request for the key. Maybe her ex have not taken over the house completely). The house is brand new and unfurnished. We return the key back to the guard shortly thereafter.

Sincerely thank you for listening.

02-08-04, 04:53
Big L

Your story isn't a new one. Every minute, a story like this is being played out in China alone. Of course the more cynical of our number would mention that 99% are scams that are aimed at relieving some dumb laowai of his cash, or at ditching their Chinese passport in favour of a foreign passport, or some smart laowai using their guile to get sex for nothing. But there is always that 1% that work out because both parties were sincere and truly in love.

What matters is not past but what you see and what you do not see. What you've related is shows a person that is observing everything carefully. However, your judgement is potentially clouded by emotion and I can only suggest you bring in a trusted third party to help you. It could be a private eye as several members here have suggested or perhaps a good friend whom you know won't mince his words and is very smart and observant.

Eventually, you'll have to make a decision and you should make it with your heart. And if you do decide to be with her, just remember this: nothing is 100% certain, you can only take a risk and find out. If the risk does not pay off, remember its what you expected. So minimize the aftermath. You're young (merely 27). Definitely prone to thinking with the little head.

Whatever choice you choose to make, best wishes.

02-08-04, 09:21
Dear Big L,

After reading your private messages that you sent to me yesterday and read Traxx posting. I am more confident about your decision now. I am busy in Beijing and will fly to Xian at 6pm. I am sorry I cant reply to you personally, but Traxx's response and advise exactly reflecting what I would like to express to you. I will contact you via pm when I have free time in Xian.

True love is difficult to find, do exists.

Best regards, from your friend,


Si Ma Yi
02-09-04, 05:30
Big L

Guess playing the hero in come-save-me-damsel-in-distress situation appeals to some. You knew the odds are against you making it. I can only applaud your "bravery" and hope for the best.

Big Looser
02-10-04, 08:17

The knight and the princess is always a fairy-tale story we usually embrace when look for a gf. A teenage like me may simply think that the romance when a relation start and end always a full of colours, but what I can see also that the important of processes in the relation play a vital role. I'm grateful that I have help another girl out of this scam and we also learnt to live together. We had develop mutual respect and trust on that period of time.

From the eyes of the odds, generally they are right. I wouldn't want to comment on their view of my case, but they indeed provide me an insight to my decision made a week ago. Here I am, never regret.

I wouldn't say my story is a unique one but each have it's own determination. Getting closer to the only 1% of 99% eventually will get even harder after both married. Each stages lead to different level of determination and realization. You are right that I had realize so much that my judgement is clouded by emotion, needs and suffers. People and myself see so much changes in me (physically and attitude) after that period of time. I can now step backward and look something beyond myself and let my big head think. She's still far apart from me, leaving me more time to think and we only communicate over the phone daily. I can live without her now and spend more time thinking what I want out of my life. Then look back at the relation how they could work out together.

In fact, I'd speak to a private eyes (www.blackwhite.com.hk) personally and quoted me HK$18k to investigate her background, marriage status and spying her activities, which is costly to me. Rather than spending unnecessary, I would rather take the risk and learn my own way. That's what I can afford and I shall expect from the risk.

Thanks pal for taking me to the next level and being supportive. I understand you are busy with travel, wouldn't mind at all waiting for your reply. Just like everyday awaits for response from potential employer in China. Safe journey pal, don't eat chicken! :)

02-11-04, 04:41
Dear Big L,

Glad to know that a lot of members caring about you and ‘your problem’. Read your yesterday posting, I am applaud your thinking now. Don’t wasting your money, use your true heart to judge your future. As a Chinese proverb use to say “Look further beyond yourself, time cant rewind back for you to change”.

Nothing is 100% certain, if you only have 1% chance, think carefully before you leap.

My schedule in Beijing has been completed. I will accompany Wen-Wen return her Suzhou’s home and probably stay for two days. I will return home soon.

Best wishes for all of us.


P/s. You know my profession, I still eating chicken and Beijing’s duck very often. For sure, not raw. Hahahaha.

02-13-04, 14:56
Big L,

I still in Beijing. Lately, the widespread of 'Bird Flu' in China make our team more busy and worry. Too many new cases and area affecting, make us feel more worry. I hope this time will not worst than SAR! Please have our fingers cross.

How're you getting on? Still worry about your job? How's your interview in China? I believe my return back to Malaysia maybe delay again. Sorry I don't know when I can have a break. Really like to have a chance to meet you and chat. Please take care yourself.

Did you read my 'Xiangshan' reports in Beijing's forum lately? Truely, I am the next guys fall in love to a Chinese beauty. I help her out of 'fire' and will accompnay her return her Suzhou's old home next week. With her consent, I do place my true and detail field report in the forum, try my best to let people know more about poor Chinese girls who indeed have emotion, pride and feeling of love, not only sell their body for money. Hope you can give me some comments and opinion.

Take care & keep in touch,

Big Looser
02-14-04, 12:17

I'd spend 30 mins reading the entire report posted in Beijing forum. Truly an amazing experience and rewarding for inexperience cheongster like me. I'm so glad that you have "buddha heart" and care for girls who fall in similar trap like myself. I doesn't want to compare any similarity here but I truly respect and proud of your decision. But when your expression said about "marrying her", that may pose some doubts due to a short time pleasure you had with her. Don't misunderstand my statement, I am trying to bring you back to reality. Let's share some view via PM ok? :-)

I will have my finger cross for you to come back here safely. I'm still eager to meet you and please don't bring the "flu" as a souvenir to me ok? Haha, just kidding.

I won't worry so much of landing myself a job in China, I have different thoughts to share with you either. Let's PM when you are free. :-) I don't mind waiting, patient is virtue. =) Comments on your FR is on the way.

Take care bro, you are my admirer now. Will still be supportive to your decision made and share my view, anytime! Till then, watch out for the highly infection virus (H15N or something, forgotten).

02-15-04, 06:09
Have to sympathise with some of the love-sick posters here.

I've been seeing a regular girl here for the past 12months and she is a real sweetie pie, kind, considerate and thoughtful. I have no designs on marrying her as I am already happily married but I tell you this some of these girls are just plain unlucky and fall into this line of work to survive not because of design. You might well be better off staying with one than marrying the grandiloquent vicar's daughter backhome.

You can all see her in the group photo I posted in the photo forum. She is in white.

02-15-04, 10:14
And here she is. I should add that I have never done a Clinton with her....she is still has her cherry. She has refused up to 2000 rmb - had she accepted I would have run out....:-))

02-15-04, 13:35
Big L,

I know you've heard some harsh comments about a working girl here from alot of guys but I thought I might add my 2 cents worth also.

First of all I am a firm believer that you can take a girl out a bar but you cant take a bar out of a girl.

From what you posted about her ex husband a few things come to mind.

First thing is he tells you she is dangoerous but he was trying to get her back.

Second thing is he wasnt man enough to grant the divorce without taking her house.
After hearing this I would question his character.

As for her in not sure I fully understood her siruation.

Things were so bad that she was willing to give up her house to leave him.To me this tells alot about how bad the relationship was.

She got a job and got screwed over at the job and sold her body for money.This I can understand somewhat.What choices do you think she had at the time?I dont know the job market where she was at and its not for me to decide if she really had another choice or not, its a question you have to come to terms with, not me.

When did she quit selling herself and did she stay away from it after she got back on her feet? To me that is the important question.If your not supporting her now and shes not doing it anymore to me that would be the issue to worry about.

If she quit because your suporting her I dont think she would do it anymore as long as you could maintain a lifestyle shes comfortable with.

I dont think many girls sell themselfs because they want to its they see no other choice. That is for you to decide if she had another choice or not.

You mentioned that she wasnt asking you for money. I really dought thats some kinda plot. I would make sure shes not selling herself anymore though.

I spoke with a lady on the internet in china tonight for a long time and she told me she had an American BF before. I asked her what her family thought about that and she told me that they were just concerned about the cultural differences between them
so I dont think its impossable to be excepted by her family as someone said.
Any relationship is a craps shot.Follow your heart,maybe this is the one for you, only one way to find out , just do your researce first and take your time.

Best of luck.


Big Looser
02-17-04, 09:40

Thanks for voicing this out. Even though it's a bit difficult trying to follow the message you are trying to deliver, but I can understand few points addressed to me.

I just want to assure you that the girl is firm and mature enough to know and understand her position in the age of midst 30. If she had work in this field out of her life in the past few years, I do believe that your comment does make sense. But again, she was forced and cheated to work for only few months. She is lucky enough to get out from the field within 4 months and bailed out.

Being her ex-hubby, I understand the egoness and dis-satisfaction for being a man who is in 47 old, divorced one with a kid. He harmfully spread rumours to her family or cousins about her divorce is caused by me but never disclose his past story, trying to push all the sins to her. He did that couple of times even recently. I think I should logde a report of intrusive of human rights which may help since they both no longer together. If he care and really try to rescue the relation, why would he even consider to take the house and grant her wish? Isn't it too late to rescue after divorce? I can't figure out why he is doing this, tracking her where she is staying now, spread rumour to her relatives or do other annoying stuff.

At least now she move away from her province and look for a job in another province. She had been trying for the past 2 weeks and before she give up, she got an offered to work in factory. This I can verify later when I visit her in few months time. Supporting her financially is really not a huge some, it's like RMB500 per month and if this money can give her a comfortable life (she still have to pay rent and food), then I know I can be a king there. If she ever had thought of going back to this field, that is where I know your picture will fit in.

I guess I did my research pretty well even without the help of private eyes. Work with my instinct, rational and opinion from various people in different perspective gave me more confident to trust my believe in understanding her. We are out of the picture now, out of being so doubtful in this relation to another stage where we learn to trust and share common expectation from different background and culture. In fact, we intend to get married by May (considering I know her for 1 year already), and take her to a new country (for both of us) and start over again. She will attach to me via spouse program and I will get my PR in that country soon.

Well, that's my update. I guess it's kind of sick talking all over the story again. Now let's get some new thing started. Anyone care to share?

02-18-04, 03:21
Hi Big L,

Me again. I am healthy enough to against the H5N1. Hahaha!!

I am very busy. Just place a short note here for you. Right now, I am staying in Suzhou for a short period with her. I do visit her hometown.

After reading your posting, one of your sentences in line ¡§We are out of the picture now, out of being so doubtful in this relation to another stage where we learn to trust and share common expectation from different background and culture.¡¨ What I should say to you is that you really know how to get some new thing start in more confident and trust. Wanna have my support?

Don¡¦t worry, I prefer ¡¥contribute¡¦ more care and love to her, not the way you think, although she is the most beautiful girl I ever meet in China. I do trust my judgement, I am not that old. ƒº

I have yet received your comments that you promise.


03-25-04, 04:43
Big L

This is something I know about, I would have to say that she knew exactly what she was getting herself into when she left the country to become a hostess. Most people who get con into the sex trade are promise jobs working in factors or house keeping or something else. Women who work in hostess bars etc.. know what they are getting themselves into. Even in china, if you come from a good family you will never work as a hostess. etc... If I were you I would really think hard maybe hire a private eye to tail her for awhile and do some back ground checks. I know a guy who hired a ex pat to tail his "so call gf" in the philipines. I highly suggest you do the same thing. You have to ask yourself when she spent the 2 months with you did she take care of you, and your house or did she just bum around the house. When you visited her new house in china, was it well taken care of? Being asian you know how important these little things are as far as customs are concern.

Hope this helps

Steve Naive
04-15-04, 23:36
I've read somewhere about guys meeting amateur Chinese girls online, chatting them up on email for awhile, all in advance of their trip.

I'd like to try that. Can someone suggest how/where I might make a posting for girls who perhaps speak a bit of English and might want a friendly date to practice it, and maybe more?

My forthcoming trip includes places not as well covered by this forum like Wuhan and Hangzhou.

Norse Kaiser
04-16-04, 11:56

From my understanding, you might want to try some online English magazines with classified ads, some of which even feature blind dates etc.

If that does not work out as it should, then online chatting like netease could be the solution.

Hopefully you can score with the girls, it could be quite easy sometimes.


04-16-04, 23:20
I have a question for the old china hands out there.

A month or more ago I started chatting with a college girl who presented the "picture of innocence" online. Despite this (well there were a few cyber kisses), I arranged to meet her after I arrived for my 6 days in bj (she wanted to meet me at the airport).
Her english is great and she is quite sophisticated for a 20 year old. (I'm 55) We hugged on meeting as previously agreed and went out for the Forbidden City. There, she allowed me to put my arm around her, and seemed to enjoy it quite a bit. Upon return to my hotel, she came into my room, allowed me one kiss, but responded with "Come on..." when I tried for another. She was hesitant to leave but finally did. She called the next day wanting to go to the great wall; I told her I had business, but went that day with some other chat gal. The third day I agree to meet her, we went to the summer palace, bj duck and again were very huggy in public. Back at the hotel, I told her 1) she sending me mixed signals re: affection in public but not so much in private, and 2) I had a date with another gal that nite and in fact had been on a date the previous day. Add to this the fact that we were no longer on our "first date" and we were soon making out pretty good. With about 15 minutes to go til my next date was supposed to start, I had my finger well in her wet pussy. Got an indication that if I cancelled out on my date with the other gal, she would spend the nite. I took the deal. Spent most of the next 48 hours with her, eating and fucking her (she wouldnt suck me). I bought her a bathing suit and other shit to swim in in the hotel pool, and generally had some really great fun and great sex. She told me I was her first foreigner and let me take some headless nude photos of her but deleted all but 2.
She wanted to go to Shanghai with me but I was reluctant (thought I might do even better in sh). So she said that she'd go with a business man on a trip to Wuhan then. When I asked, she told me she didnt have sex with this guy - "too small and skinny". My last nite in bj she called and told me again I made love like a 35 year old, not a 45 year old (my deception). And, that she wanted phone sex between us and her roomates. That didnt come off very well but she moved into the dorm hallway continued to hint about Shanghai. I didnt take the bait.

I then struck out in Shanghai and tried to get her to join me on her way back from Wuhan (we had discussed this as a possibility). She said she couldnt because he'd already paid for her plane tix back to bj. By the way, she also perviously mentioned she had done the sightseeing tourguide thing with one of the business man's German associates, but I was different since this was personal.

Anyway she called and we talked on the phone several times before I left China, making plans about staying in touch til my next visit.

My question: What the f* is going on? Is she a) a semi pro, b) a coed looking for good times, food & sex, a little adventure and english practice, c) a nice looking 20 year old genuinely attracted to a 55 year old, or d)?

I'd love to think it was b) &/or c) but it sounds too good to be true. She never really hit me up for money other than taking me to nice restaurants and bars. She certainly didnt try to talk me out of spending 400rmb on swimming gear. On the other hand, despite my NY cynicism, I thought we genuinely hit it off pretty well and she liked being with me, including in public where she appeared undeterred to some pretty harsh stares at our walking embrace. Any insight would be much appreciated.

Jack Spratt
04-17-04, 04:33

Try here


as a start - a lot of guys have had success from this mag, but its always easier if you live here.

Good luck


In China, nothing is ever as it seems

04-18-04, 15:39

I have been living in China for many years. Here is what I think:

I couldn't figure out what exactly it is that you are looking for. I have a feeling though that it is short-term romance including sex, without any strings attached. If that is the case, I would recommend to stay away from that girl. I have been playing this game for a long time, and I don't believe in freebies. Not in China. Unless you are really hard nosed, you are finally going to pay for it, financially, perhaps emotionally, and likely with a lot of trouble. My advice is to look for a working girl instead. Most of them are quite pleasant to be with, multiple-day deals are possible, and you have a clean-cut situation.

If you are serious, however, and look for a stable relationship with this girl, there are several crucial questions to answer: how much do you know about China and the Chinese, their culture and behaviour patterns? If the answer is "not much", I believe it is going to be difficult. Do you speak at least a little Chinese, even if her English is good? To me, the Chinese language is key for the understanding of their culture.

And, excuse me for being blunt, but the age difference in your case is very big. There are many young Chinese girls going with elderly foreigners, and in most cases the basis of these relationships is purely economic. If you can accept this, you may go ahead. The Chinese are very practical people, and she could make it appear as "the real thing" for quite some time, even if she doesn't love you. But if you are looking for love, the odds are against you. Why would she do this Wuhan trip? No sex with this guy because he is too skinny? He might have a fat wallet to change her mind.

My conclusion therefore is: move on. Play with the girls on the game. There are thousands of them, and enough of them do speak at least some English. But if you do look for a stable mate, think twice if it has to be a Chinese. If the answer still is yes, become serious in understanding her and her background. And probably go for a slightly older one.

04-18-04, 16:24
you left out
e) all of the above
In China there is ambiguity and contradiction everywhere.
Sometime we think of things being mutually exclusive when they are not.
However since you did not commit, option c will most likely never eventuate into true love even if it was possible in her thinking in the beginning.
loafer's advice seems sound.


Three I
04-18-04, 20:19
She sounds like a pro to me! She is trouble stay away and fuck other chicks! She is running a game on you and get out the game before it is too late.

BJK and loafer are right!

04-18-04, 21:01
BJK and Loafer,

Thanks much for your thoughts and opinions. They all make a lot of sense. BJK: your option "e) ALL of the above" WAS something I didn't consider. Loafer: "short-term romance including sex, without any strings attached" is a better description of my mindset than I was able to come up with; were you suggesting something similiar is possible with a working girl? If so, a referral or 2 might be helpful.

You guys supplied what I was asking for in my post (and am still very interested in hearing): other's (better informed) perspectives on her motives. This interest probably reveals SOME inappropritate emotionality. I am not mooning over her, but am realizing I would have enjoyed spending more time with her. (a bird in hand, hand in bush ;-) )
One important thing I left out of my original post is that I am now back in the US. She has asked me about timing a return, 1-2 week, business trip to coincide with her school summer break. I am considering this possibility. But would probably keep some other (including chat) irons in the fire for backup purposes.

My concern about working girls is more health related. Since I like to DATY I want to minimize risk. I assume a non pro chat girl would be a safer bet. The fact that the girl in question did not ask for money and originally presented as so innocent, was part of the attraction. Her youth was another.

Thanks again, hope to hear any further thoughts and opinions from you 2 and others.

04-18-04, 21:11
Three X,

Thanks. You figure she's a pro who plays it "soft sell"? She did hint about me buying her things like bathing gear but never asked for money. She didnt collect much else besides some nice meals this trip, especially considering the time she spent with me. You think she's playing a longer game plan?


04-19-04, 01:53

Good luck if you are interested in this girl. Being Chinese in background but having stayed in North America for over 20 years, the following is my 2 cents.

I have to travel to China a few times a year for business, and the same which happened to you had occurred to me as well, since me being an oversea chinese.

I don't think d is an option. You being 55 and me 5 years younger than you are, we are on the same boat that we are not attractive from a 20 year old perspective, nor are we physically as strong as a 35. Forget it; that's sugar coating.

I don't see any bj or sh native girls looking for free food or a 400 rmb swim suit. Those gals are able to afford these luxury items; no big deals to them, unless they are from poor country side.

I bet this girl has two things in her mind. First, she want a "ticket" out to the western world. Getting married to a yankee is the quickest and cheapest way. Fucking you (sorry, I don't mean that) is pennyless to her, and once both of you put the pants up, god knows whether you or she enjoys the sex more. If this theory is true, watch out. The minute she arrives at any of the three airports in new york, she will disappear.

The second scenario is having sex with a yankee is one of her means to know the outside world. She can tell her friends how big your dick is, like as big as a beer bottle, even if that's not the case. Or she can say yankee is not as rich as they may think, which can be the case as well. Anyhow, you have nothing to lose if you maintain a emotional distance from her.

The way she treated you is a manipulative behaviour, commonly found amongst Chinese girls, pros or not pros. She wants to control, dominate and dictate your time and activities in China. Watch out. Chinese women can be very manipulative. They are more sophisticated than north american women of the same age.

I agree with other opinions in this board. Stay away from non-pros; otherwise sooner or later you will have go pay big. I mean it. I was hooked once. The woman knew almost everything about me, because she knew how to log onto my laptop in my hotel-apartment. The short term romance almost cost my family.

From now on, I will pay and play. No more freebie, since there is no free lunch in the world.

Sorry for the long response.

Three I
04-20-04, 03:03
And just imagine Korean girls are worst!

04-20-04, 03:09

I believe that it won't be too hard to find what you need if you just hang out in the pubs and bars described elsewhere in this forum.

As regards health concerns: It is dangerous to believe that girls who appear non-pro are the safer bet. To me, any woman who agrees to have sex on a short-time and non-binding basis is a potential health hazard. She has probably done it a hundred times before. The very first sexual health issue I ever had in my life was related to a non-pro in China. A nice girl, looking clean and neat and modest, who, as I found out later, had fucked with all the superiors in her company before.

Stay safe!

James D 2004
04-20-04, 04:25
Asian girls are openly materialistic, to survive the high land price in Tokyo, Hong Kong, the poverty in Thailand, Philippines, just the same. China is worst because don't forget that they have the cultural revolution. Many of the parents of current generations are red guards, otherwise they saw it all. If you ever saw those people they are of a different breed. You boss controlling your whole life is another thing. Other than that the growth rate of China is phenomenal, from pretty much nothing to now the pillar of the world - if you take away the made in China stuff, you probably have no shoes or you kids don't have toys, I will miss my Italian 'designed' table. My advice is, if you have the choice, do any Asian girls but Chinese from China. Of course you can say this is stereotype. Of course it doesn't represent the majority or that many girls are like that. But with that huge population, all bets are off.

04-21-04, 06:36
You know, one other thing to say about freebies - the fun of the hunt, the thrill of the score. It feels good to win one round of the game. I am certainly not an expert, but I had a hell of a lot of fun playing the playboy in china for a week or so. maybe I got lucky, maybe I spent more money per f* than I would have with bbs girls, but for me it was a f*ing gas. No regrets, assuming no disease.

Lessons learned for a vacationer? Maybe schedule 2 dates per day, 2 dates per girl, so you don't have to fight the the stigma of the first date f* . day 1: Girl a ,then girl b ; day 2, girl c, then girl a (score?); day 3 girl d, then girl c (score?), etc. If you find the pot/chick at the end of the rainbow, move on if you fear freebie entaglements, if not, ride the wave if you are feeling lucky.

Night Cat
04-22-04, 08:17
There seem to be two camps in the discussions of freebies. One camp talks about the ease of finding many freebies in a short time, and the other talks about the associated hassles. It's as if there are at least two Chinas being discussed. My experience with "civilians" (not sure what else to call women who aren't sex workers) leans heavily toward the "hassle" camp.

Don't get me wrong, I've found more opportunity in Chengdu than in America, but for every story of an interesting score, there are 19 other stories of headaches, e.g., dates that go nowhere (even after 3, 4, or 5 dates), girls who can't be reached on their mobile, girls who bring their sister or friend on a date, girls who come to my home, even sleep there, but resist all action (even after an hour or two of encouragement), girls who blatantly insist up front that I should buy them gifts or take them shopping, and then there are the girls who try to get serious (e.g., talk about marriage and/or set terms of exclusivity) after knowing me only a few weeks. Maybe all of these hassles are normal, i.e., the ordinary hidden costs of dating, but I've grown tired of spending lots of time and effort with little or no result.

So why are there these two "camps" among those of you who have posted on this topic? I can only assume that the guys who find a lot of no-strings encounters or affairs do so by selling themselves as potential boyfriends, and I'm rather averse to that method. Also in my case, there's the fact that I mainly just enjoy the score and not so much the hunt. Mostly I hunt in the bars and discos, and my experience in Chengdu is that if I go, say, 10 times a month, maybe 3 times I'll find a for-money deal with a halfway decent looking girl, and maybe one actual freebie, that's in a good month.

I'd be interested to hear any opinions on the above, specifically, why are there these two "camps"? It would also be interesting to get more details from the high-scoring guys, like what is your actual success rate, and what kinds of things happen in the non-scoring scenarios? In other words, what are the hidden costs, what kinds of nonsense do you tend to encounter along the way? My own answers are as written above. Thanks in advance for any info or insights.

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was reformatted to remove extraneous word wraps.

04-23-04, 05:14
Night Cat,
Every situation is different. I also think that based on where you hunt make sa difference in the type of girl you get.

Speaking for me, Lucky888, and Tapioca, we have all had our share of girls that are an easy 3-4 lays, and easy to push off. We also have had our share of girls who spazz out.

I know for a fact, that Lucky will not lie to them and tell them they have long term serious girlfriend potential. That is his particular style, and he has GREAT luck with freebies that are not too clingy and mostly always avaialable.

I have had mixed results based on how heavy I let it get.

We also have met chicks in a wide range of places. Ice cream shopss, restaurants, bars that are famous for easy chicks, bars that are not etc...

Everything really is a combination of your approach and what comes out of your mouth, your body language and facial expressions tell the girl a lot about their hopeful fututre with you.


04-23-04, 06:56
Night Cat,

I'm really sorry to hear how hard it seems for you to latch on to some freebie fun.

I did a count of my total freebie action over my past two trips. Basically, I slept with 6 out of 9 girls I went out on a date with. Of those 6 girls, 4 slept with with me on the first date!

I don't speak much Chinese, so most(but not all) of the girls speak English, and they all knew I would be going home so there was not much likelihood of a relationship.

Maybe you should try other methods for meeting them. I've definitely had better luck with some methods than others.


John Siron
04-23-04, 08:51
I don't look for freebies. No matter who I meet, I always tell them I have a girlfriend or a wife. I don't have problems with girls walking away if they don't like that. I'd say that 80% of the girls that I meet just don't care that I am seeing someone already. They like that challenge!

If I meet a KTV girl I usually play it cool with them and slip in the conversation on the first meet that I have a longterm gf. They'll tell you that you are a bastard for coming out to play, but they'll like that! Talk dirty and get their hopes up that you'll take them out to shag, but don't. Get their number and start chatting with them on SMS or on the phone once and awhile. Keep talking dirty to them cause a lot of them like that, but won't admit it. After awhile, they'll want to see you and when you take them home, you got a freebie. I do the same thing with sauna girls except I do pay them to bang them the first time, and then I ask for their numbers.

If it's a normal girl, also tell them you have a gf already. This avoids the hassle of them calling you all the time. When they do call you, just tell them you are out of town on a business trip! You can then start talking to them about what they like in bed etc... get them hot and heavy, and then invite them over to watch DVDs.... :-)

I've had high success rates this way... lets hear what other guys have to say!

Mao Dun
04-23-04, 15:43
I'm a married newbie who thought going freebie was preferable at first to going professional. I met a 30 year old girl (I'm 39) on AFF and we were e-mailing about physical encounters before we met. It actually worked out fine, I got laid on the third date (probably could have on the 2nd but had not made the necessary arrangements), and she was amazing for me, and very very sweet.

But immediately I have become scared of consequences. All she talks about is me getting a divorce and marrying her--her tone indicates that she knows that's not where my head is at, but it certainly is where hers is. I'm trying to break it off with her, but at the same time I really like her. I'm not going to be having sex with her anymore (biting my knuckle as I say that, god she was good!), but I don't want to lose touch with her. She has a really sh*tty life and I wish I could do something to improve it, but I'm not ready to change my own family situation.

I think much of this counts as "hassles," but at the same time, other than talking a lot wistfully about marrying me, she has given me no reason to get skittish (cross fingers), and she's really nice as far as I can tell. And judging from what the experienced gents here have been saying, looking for freebies can be rewarding enough to be worth trying.

Although I must say, when I'm able to pull out of this one (or before), I'm heading for Maggies for something more clear cut.

04-24-04, 02:53
Boss and anyone else,

Care to share some of your more successful tactics with freebies? The only one I really tried was chatting them up (online) for several weeks prior to my visit. Agreeing to in one case, hinting in others (about sex) during the chat sessions.

I went 2 for 4. Much much better than I do back here in the states with whatever way I try. I got some waitresses mobile numbers, but never followed up.

04-24-04, 15:15

I usually dont get all that quick reply from Freebies. I usually meet them several times with NO action. This gets them comfortable enough to come over to your house late. Also if they like you and you have not pulled any moves, I think they find you very attractive. Then you can get tired, fall asleep on top of your bed, not under covers, and eventually that night you complete the deed. Then after that they are open and willing to come over for sex.

Tapioca has hooked up in as quick as 2 hours with a chick he met online but I never did.

I did meet one chick who mysteriously popped up on my Yahoo messenger, we chat for 20 minutes, and she agreed to meet me at night, even though she is married. That may pay off pretty fast.


04-24-04, 19:02
I have a question if anyone would care to assist me.

I have been corresponding with a gal from Nanning that I met online. I will be in China this summer and want to meet her. In between some serious bouts of mongering (I worship Chinese women) I want to meet her.

She says she is a "hair stylist". Is that the same as working in a barbershop? Is there a any difference? Any info would be appreciated, maybe some questions I could ask that would give me an indication. For instance, is there any particular district that would indicate what type of establishment she is working in? I am very curious, but I don't want to ask her something that she might take offense at. The input I get will help determine my approach when I meet her.


Spike, out.....

04-25-04, 00:03
BlnkNameCruiser, etc,

Thanks for your notes on freebies. Very timely for me.

I just got back from a lunch with a pretty cute, married, (4 years in the US) szchuan 28 year old here in california.

I started talking to her in a starbucks here last weekend. Asked her about helping me line up a tutor or language partner to help me with my chinese. I gave her my tel # and email so she could let me know, and then she volunteered hers. I followed up with an email telling her how young and impressive she was. She replied saying she talked to her husband and he wanted to be my language partner (she does not wear a ring). She also made enthusiastic note of my telling her she was young and impressive.
Despite my initial impulse, I ignored the husband remark and replied with a few more compliments and asked her to lunch. She said sure. She said the restaurant I suggested would make for a "good ADVENTURE". The ADVENTURE comment got my hopes up pretty high.

But the lunch was not the stepping stone to the tryst at the local motel I fantasized about. Rather, a friendly, if a little too polite, lunch. I refused her offer to help pay for lunch and then when I asked if she would like to get together again she said yes but it will be her turn to buy. (FWIW, during the course of the lunch she also said she would have more free time in June and that she likes to get out of town but doesnt like to be the driver)

Well, I was about to write her off when I read BlnkNameCruiser's remarks about freebies usually taking a while. And then I remembered a bj experience where after the first date I was sure I would never get anywhere (but scored the next date).

Anyway, I once again am seeking to benefit from your collective experience with chinese women. Is this worth pursuing? If so, should I adjust my tactics. Limit or keep pressing with email, bump into again at the coffee shop, set up another, quicker, lunch? I look foward to your opinions and advice.


04-25-04, 05:54

A Hair Stylist means she can cut your hair and style it (blow dry, perm, color, etc). Whether she can do facial is another question. It seems she is talking about the legit skills, and not the mongering kind. She is most likely working in a Beauty Salon, and not a "barbershop".

Thirty Mins
04-25-04, 12:12

On the freebie vs. professional topic, the whole reason I got into the hobby was because freebies were too much of a hassle.

Instead of having two phone numbers and a couple of names, you can have one fake name, and have no need to give out your number. Plus the pros go away, don't try to get pregneant with your baby, and don't threaten to kill themselves when you don't respond to an SMS within 5 minutes.

Then again, freebies are free, and can be young and pretty if you look in the right places.

Getting into a Chinese girl's pants is never a problem, it's getting out of the presumed engagement that goes along with sex.

04-25-04, 21:27

Thanks, I appreciate that. I think the feedback I'm getting is leading me to that same conclusion.

Spike, out...

04-26-04, 02:14
What do you have to lose to continue to hang out with her?
- If nothing but a little free time, then keep going.

I met a girl who flat out told me she wanted a boyfriend on the side and did not want to divoirce her husband.


04-26-04, 02:18
Thirty Mins,
You are right to a point. Some chicks will pull maeuvers. I have met one that goes crazy with 3 million sms's and phone calls so bad I changed the phone number which was printed on my business card, and made a rule to NEVER give out my business phone to a girl. Now I have a monger phone dedicated to the game.

I passed her on to Lucky888 (with adequate warning) and she is doing it to him, but he is dealing with her well, and firmly managing it.

For the most part, Tapioca seems to be the master of the freebie. He gets girls for about 3-4 shots, and pushes them off in a smooth way that they remain friends. Only one girl we nicknamed "The Cat" which would never leave his house and he worried about feeding "the cat" when he was gone.

My recent string of freebies has been relatively uneventful. I have had a good 6-8 recently and so far minimal drama.

I seem to go in phases of my preferences. I think whatever you do you have to think about how to get out of it before going into it.


04-26-04, 04:00
Here is a good question:

I went to the KTV bar with my roommate (who may have the lowest IQ in all of China), and he negotiated to get a hooker. The front desk had to go out and get a condom, because the girl didn't have any in her purse. Nor were there any with any of the other girls. He stayed in for three hours and used no rubber when it was all said and done. She told him that it was his choice whether or not to use one.

I would like to know:

1. How many of you guys find that the hookers don't require you to wear condoms?

2. How many have actually gone bareback many times and found out that you were OK?

3. When I mentioned to a doctor about going to condoms she said (in Chinese) "Be careful of AIDS." I'm assuming that she said this because she saw so many cases of it in her job. Another Chinese person said (when I told him that I went to KTVs): "Oh, aren't you afraid of diseases?" Could there be an epidemic of HIV in hookers that no one has started to figure out yet?

I appreciate any PMs that you could give me with your experience with Chinese hookers and STDs/ HIV/ Bareback.

04-26-04, 05:49
Even if China was not on the verge of a serious HIV epidemic - which it is - your friend took a huge chance of contracting any of the varieties of hepatitis that are floating around out there. I recently read in the respected The Economist magazine that the hepatitis infection rate in China is 50-60 times higher than in the US and most Western countries. Barebacking with Chinese pros is sheer idiocy, plain and simple.

04-26-04, 16:36

1. Touching the skin of your cock to the skin of some girls vagina does not instantly get you a disease even if she has it.

2. Dozens of variables make a difference in how contractable some disease is at that particular moment.

3. We all have done that kind of dumb thing here and there. Maybe he is dumber than usual, but we all slip up.

4. Bottom line is that the safest way to play, is use a condom, and go DATY. At least you can get a visual, and touch and scent test. If you wont stick your toungue in it, you shouldnt stick your cock in it.

My pal just contracted something from "the factory" becuase one chick allowed him to go bareback. I honestly dont think she normally does that, but they had a chemistry for a while. He had to go to get a 2 hour IV for 4 days in a row.

Yes the Hep rate is something crazy like 30-35% of population. That is well known.

HIV in Henan province is about 60%. Any girls from there under the age of 25 should be avoided all together.


Three I
04-26-04, 18:07
When I go to a cAMP or incall in the U.S. (California) I alway ask the girls where they are from in China if the say Henan or Yunan province I only get a massage from them. Also the Guanxi girl are nasty too!

04-27-04, 02:10

I have a question about the friend you mentioned who had the 4 days of IV antibiotics. I have lived in Beijing for many years and like most wsg readers have shagged my share. I am extremely careful about going bareback. Any hint of smell, rash, or that crusty white stuff, and I wear a raincoat. Recently, I have read some stuff online about chlymadia in China and how it is often undetectable. Fearing Ijust may have it, (or perhaps just for peace of mind) i took the recommended 1 gram dosage of pfizer azithromicyn. My question is why would your friend need an IV drip? Did he have something serious? There are also pills for gonorrea?


Night Cat
04-27-04, 07:51
Thanks to all for the comments on freebies. It's interesting to know different people's mixtures of successes and hassles. Perhaps my luck isn't as bad as I thought. In my first year I've managed to get hassle-free first-date sex a few times from AFF, a few one-night stands and semi-regular freebies from the disco, and a few other scores elsewhere. This is far more than I could ever find in the U.S., but I gripe a bit because I'm greedy, I want to find the above more often and with fewer dead-ends (multiple dates that lead nowhere, etc.). The fact that I'm not willing to invest much time and effort in "dating" probably limits my options considerably. Where I have good luck, especially recently in Shanghai, is for-money GFEs, I think I've found some of the best. Perhaps because it's clear that there are no lasting expectations, I'm more likely to relate to them more comfortably and even give THEM a good "BFE" (boyfriend experience), moreso than I would give a "civilian". More discussion on the Chengdu board ('cause that's where I am now).

Regarding STDs, I've found that a lot of Chinese think that you don't need to use a condom with a boyfriend/girlfriend, while condoms are standard in for-money deals. However, this is highly variable, at least judging by the stories on this forum. Other than with my ex in the U.S., I've used a condom every time in my life. The only STD I ever got was molluscum, fairly benign, solved by having the doctor snip off or freeze off the pimples. This was from a British hooker in Berkeley who rode my shaft before penetration. I don't let gals do that anymore.

Black Jack
04-27-04, 17:54
Hey Guys,

I rarely frequent this section of the forum. Quite interesting in terms of topics.

Regarding stds and Hiv, does anyone know of any clinics designed especially for doing testing of stds/hiv in Shanghai? I rarely go bareback with pros, but I do love them bbbj. Even though bbbj carries much lower risk for hiv infection, it still leaves you vulnerable to lots of other nasty things.
Back home I used to check myself every so often just to comfort myself, so it definitely would be nice to be able to do that.

Thanks in advance!


05-03-04, 15:41
Black Jack
there is a STD hospital. Cheap and fast to get stuff checked. I will check the name and get back to you.


05-03-04, 15:43

The Dr told him is was common to get even from contaminated underwear or gym towels. He didnt know the english name of it.


Angel Eyes
05-03-04, 15:53
My 2 Fens,

Freebies that seem to go no where: I met a girl once, and got a very bad feeling from the start. Not about the girl, but about the chances to get her in the sack. I met her a few times despite this, in which at first I was really sure that I was wrong. There wasn't a small chance - there was no chance! She carried on, when questioned, about how she's very traditional and would never do such a thing before marrige.

However, after a few dates she suddenly said on the phone that she didn't say she would never do anything with me, and then, next date was in my place for some DVD watching, which ended in bed. I do believe she was a virgin. Oh, forgot to mention, she was over thirty!

So, there's always a chance. I don't even know why I kept talking to her, I was sure nothing would come out of it.

But, a word to the wise - she talked about getting married very soon. The whole affair took less than two weeks. Scary.

About STDs, I never went bareback with a pro, and I'm not going to. Despite this, I managed to catch 2 diseases from 1 girl whom I had exactly 2 FS with (night and the day after). Be careful!

05-03-04, 17:37
Angel Eyes,


Despite this, I managed to catch 2 diseases from 1 girl whom I had exactly 2 FS with (night and the day after).

Were you wearing a condom or barebacking her? I ask because I'm always wondering if the condom will be enough protection.


Black Jack
05-03-04, 22:43

That would be great if you can find me the name and address of the clinic. Just a little less to need to worry about.


05-05-04, 03:21
Reality Check,

Just had lunch with a seemingly nice guy here in California. He goes to China often and of course the subject turned quickly to women. I (proudly) mentioned that I batted 500 in scoring with chat friends (college students) whom i actually met up with on my recent trip. He listened politely and then implied he did even better just hangin out at Tienanmen Square. Now this guy is probably even older than me (55)! He said college girls would invariably approach him within 30 minutes, say they wanted to practice their english, he'd take them to eat and then at least half of them went with him to his hotel and fucked.

He seemed like a fairly honest guy, but I'm pretty gullible. Do you guys buy his story. Does this seem likely to you? Would appreciate your opinion.


05-05-04, 19:54

The story is too good to be true. It is both easy and difficult to start a relationship with a Chinese woman. Chat rooms are usually the best. After chatting, emailing and talking on the phone over a short period of time, within a week or two, a date will occur. At the end after a short drink or a brief dinner, of course we go to bed. That's the easy way: I do it and alot of others do it as well.

The difficult part is picking up a non-pro on the street. I doubt it if it is possible to pick someone up at Tienanmen Square. Don't go near it if you are not a tourist. There are lots of secret police out there. In China, we don't do two things at Tienanmen Square or in the public: politics and sex. Your friend has to take very high risk for his behaviour.

Girls in the North are relatively more conservative than those in the south. If you have any plan to go to Shen Zhen and want to try some freebies, try the English chat room at chat.szptt.net.cn. I have scored high from this single source.

Last word of warning: Freebies are not free. If you are not smart enough, they will cost you big.

Angel Eyes
05-06-04, 02:13
Black Jack,

I meant exactly what I said. "Despite this" means despite the fact I've always used a condom.

Both of those diseases were the kind which a condom can not stop. They are STDs because they are transferred via sexual intercourse, but, the thing is, I got them because my crotch touched her groin. They were not dangerous ones, just pretty annoying, and easy to get rid of but it took about two weeks for each disease (one, I guess, nested for a longer time, so I didn't get them both at the same time).

05-08-04, 02:18

Thanks for your informed opinion. 2 questions:

1) Would the secret police really interfer if they thought a couple would go somewhere for freebie sex? (was I stupid to walk around the sites with my arm around a college girl?) and

2) I couldn't find an English or Yingwen button at chat.szptt.net.cn; how do you get to the english chat area? Thanks much.

05-08-04, 10:04
Wannabe and Tatyu,

It is very possible to pick up non pro's off the street.

My friend who recently moved here to China picks up most of his freebies in 2 ways:

Walking around stores and streets. He simply approaches a cute girl and says something totally outrageous, like "Hello, I love you!", or "Hi, You're Cute! Wow... Comeback here! I love your chubby belly!"

He has nabbed girls from Watsons, random streets... etc. He usually gets them home and having sex within a few hours or worst case a day later.

He of course strikes out a lot, but his investment in strike outs is very low.

Also he sits at starbucks and gets in conversations with girls. He has a pretty good success rate.


05-09-04, 06:50

On the subject of freebies, I do not have the same success rate that I often read about on the China threads. First of all, I have a family so I don't have much time to invest in romancing them, nor can I be very open with my cell phone #, etc. Secondly, the freebies I have managed to nail, have been in their mid-thirties (I am 50) and not very attractive when compared with the 18-25 range of pros that I pay for. Frankly, I prefer the young, hard, tight, sexy bodies.

Just my POV.


05-09-04, 08:05
I had a look at http://chat.szptt.net.cn/. Looks like #9 is the English forum.

I guess you need to register first here: http://market.szptt.net.cn/members/register_form.jsp

The fields are:

?: (I dunno this one)
Confirms the password:
Prompt question:
Real name:
Birth year/month of/day:

I used Babelfish to translate it. It would wuite good for simple Chinese. http://world.altavista.com

BTW, this STD despite condom issue worries me a bit....

Update: I think #2 means you have to retype your ID. Anyway, I managed to sign up in 3 seconds. The #9 english chat board is VERY active.

05-14-04, 09:15
Are there any regions of the country in China where these girls are a bit more friendly with black men than others? I was thinking about going to Sichuan or Chongqing. Or maybe even back to Fujian Province, since it seems like the fish are not biting around here.

I was speaking to one black guy at the bar, and he said that every man in this city (Jinan) had at least two girls that he could call at any time for sex. I don't know if I am just in the wrong place or what.

05-14-04, 10:46
where are you? also in Jinan?


05-14-04, 15:13
The very place.

06-02-04, 14:42
Regarding Day and Night's web address chat.szptt.net.cn. I tried that for about a year. In a nutshell, it is like an "all you can eat buffet", if you are interested in freebies or non-pros.

06-05-04, 15:07
Been thinking about what the motivation is of these BB shop girls who I have been getting free after paying them for a while.

I dont think they are expecting me to marry them (although one has asked me)

Maybe they are doing what we are all doing. Using a shallow substitute for some intimacy even if they know it is short lived.

ok, ok dont mean to get philosophical... just curious sometimes what is in their minds.


06-05-04, 15:31
I guess sex is just fun with the right person. They need sex too and probably even like a no-strings-attached relationship.

I have to vote with OAH, you are our hero! Keep the stories coming!

BTW, does you sister act do girls on girls stuff? Would make nice watching during hardening times.

06-07-04, 03:13

They started to goof around one time with each other but didnt get far. I could tell I wouldnt have been able to get them to do it.

I have done that before with a freebie of mine and my friends Japanese girl friend. They were both at my house and we all started having sex in the same room on my bed and we managed to get the girls to TOTALLY go at it together. That was absolutely one of the coolest things I ever saw.


06-07-04, 11:51
Let's talk about some real issues that happen with these relationships.

1. How many of you have ever met a girl and spent the time to talk her panties off, only to find that after having sex ONE time, she reneges and says that she wants to be a traditional girl? This has happened to my roommate about three times and me once.

2. Is there some huge dichotomy between nice girl and bar girls? It seems like girls in the bar are there to either pricktease everyone or have already fucked everyone in the bar. University girls need the Jaws of life to get their legs open.

3. Do most of the foreign men in these places lie? One guy says to me: Every man in this city has at least two women that he can call at any time for sex. And some of these women want to get fucked in such a way that they're cracked in two. But then, in another conversation the same man says that the dating scene here is like telemarketing. If you talk to 100 people, 2 or 3 will be interested.

4. The women are overall just flaky. For instance, I got the number of one woman after I made sure that she didn't have a boyfriend. I called her later and had a friend translate, and she said that she only gave me her number because she was a good natured person and that she really hated me. And if I was only interested in dating her, she didn't want to see me again. What the fuck? Or, you get numbers from women, and they have *no clue* that you might want to see their vagina. They think that you want to give them a free English lesson.

Just now, I'm in the North of China (Shandong). I think that I want to move to the South if the fish are more likely to be biting there.

06-07-04, 18:49
To be honest I have better freebie luck in Beijing. I find the north girls much more friendly than the seemingly spoiled princess Shanghai girls.

I still like life and the city of Shanghai better, and I am doing well enough here, but I am sure Tapioca can attest, Beijing girls are more friendly, and open to get laid sooner rather than later, and because they like you rather than they saw the size of your bank roll.

Tapioca always had the ability to round up 6 girls in 30 minutes when he and I would hang out up there. It was surely not because of his bankroll because they all knew he was jobless.

When it comes to the hard to get girls, I can usually sense it pretty quick. You really need to use your intuition and you can usually minimize your wasted time.

just my thoughts.


06-08-04, 09:02
Normally its easier to get girls out of BJ or SH into the bed, especially if you are foreign. SH girls, like HK girls are often heartless and will leave you with a hard on, unlike the Northern girls who see you need some help and,,,

But its more often the case of screening the individual girls and eliminating the gold/passport/English diggers ASAP.

One market segment that I am bullish on is the late 20's divorcee.

BlnkNameCruiser, a mate in SH told me that SH girls are crazy about giving BJ thesedays, like a sexual trend,,any comments?

Angel Eyes
06-08-04, 12:02

1. Never happened to me, although I think I can see how something like that would happen.

2. "University girls need the Jaws of life to get their legs open". I don't agree with that. Had a very "traditional" girl open up on the third date, after I though all hope was gone, and I just wanted to meet her for the company. Just goes to show that persistance has it's prizes.

3. I have no idea about this. however, I think sometimes you might need to lie a little to the girls. I gather that most of them wouldn't like to know you have another 2 waiting for your call.

4. Some of them *are* really naive. But then, I like that about them. Sorry to hear about that strange experience you had. So far, all the girls who gave me their phone number, at least liked me.

Blankie, what you said about Beijing sounds good to me. Especially when I think about how the girls would run away when they see my income numbers.

06-08-04, 21:06

The following is my 2 cents. You are right. It is like telemarketing or selling life policies. You approached 100 and the chance is you will get maybe 2 customers. Do the same with freebies. Don't expect every girl you talk to for 30 minutes will go to bed with you. That's not realistic. So, freebies are not free in term of time. They are more expensive if I invest my time some where else. What I like is the process and the girlfriend feel. Somebody talked about the divorce in modern China, which makes sense to contribute to the scene of non-pros. Keep hunting.

06-14-04, 12:25
I picked up a tall 28 yrs old Shanghainese beauty at Starbucks... I dated her twice and on the second date, I got her in my room on my bed and started to eat her raw.

She was very receptive, moaning and shaking while I was starting to undress her. I was surprised to be able to reach in her pants after knowing her only for 2 days, so I continued. She reached in my pants a few times too, which I thought was a great sign. When I started to pull her panties down, she told me she was virgin.

What a shock.... virgin at 28? Such a beautiful girl? So traditional in Shanghai? We cuddled and she left an hour later. I had extreme blue ball pain that I had to take care of at Mandang lu factory.

The question is: if she is still virgin at 28, lots of guys probably tried and failed. If I try and succeed (you never know...), will that ruin her life? (I have no plans of getting married... too many fishes in this pond)

Other question: is that a trick to get commitment from me?

Any advice from Shanghainese girl experts welcome.

For now, I have to figure out how to get her to BJ me...



06-18-04, 14:16

Is it just me or do you all have similar experiences with pros in China trashing the bathroom and/or spitting on the floor or in the trash can during a BJ? Could it be linked to the price I am paying or the class of the girl? Seems to happen very often unless I set the rules in advance when she first comes into the room.


06-18-04, 16:27
It is very traditional to hold onto virginty until marriage in China. A respectable husband would expect it. I think, that without virginity, a womany would have a hard time finding a good husband that would be acceptable to her family.

I know a woman who is 38 and still a virgin, and not about to give it up for a one nighter. She is good looking, but never married. It would be shameful to loose her virginity to a man who is not her husband. This is the old way of thinking in China, as it was in the US many years ago.

Wicked SH
06-19-04, 01:57
oah everytime i have gone out even for a foot massage they have done something like spit on the floor. one time during fs massage the girl came in pretty young and hot, she took off her clothes and started to remove my towl then she jumped up ran to the trash can, urinated for what seemed like 5 min then tied the bag, ran out threw it away and came back to finish the job. needless to say i requested a new - clean fresh girl.

wicked in shanghai

06-19-04, 06:50
i was with a girl, who was a virgin at 40. or 41. and finally getting married ( not with me, thank god!) she was a nice friend, and bj me almost every night, but no pussy. she love 69ing, and getting her pussy eaten.

personally, i didn't want to do it (she wanted to give it to me to trap me, but i refused. willpower, guys!). i think she would be hard to shake, if i de-virginize her. i choose not to. she was okay, but i didn't like her that much. she was a good friend to me. got her hot most of the nights, or she made the move when i was sleeping. i was like getting [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), at time, lol. i was fun twice, or three times a night. she loves to suck cock though! takes a lot of cum on her face, yaaaah!

06-19-04, 16:38
Most of the girls from the countryside (All the 3 world countries) will do something like this. It is natural to them, unless they are taught not to do this in the big cities. Manner is the last thing on their mind. Eating, and making money is this order.

In a business establishment, it is bad business to do something like this. I am sure a low end MP, may have this problem.

06-25-04, 17:08
My advice, and I am SURE the advice of Lucky888, DONT DO HER.

We were both passing around this Filipina (without her knowledge) and she aint even a virgin. Even though she TOTALLY tossed herself into bed with us, she became a complete insane lunatic that we arent hanging around.

I would avoid that 28 y/o at all costs.


Wicked SH
06-27-04, 17:19
Every Filipina I have ever known has been a lunatic. They were all in SF bay area in the US but were a complete and utter insane mess.

06-29-04, 08:01
Just reading through... so, adding my thoughts to this forum...

i have been so far surprised at the "openness" of the women here... on the surface, most appear to be extremely conservative in nature... as it's still fairly taboo to discuss matters of a sexual nature openly... so, sexually they are a little repressed... but also make them being very open to try new things! I think some of the main reasons why they are this way...

1. Most are still living with their parents until at least mid to late 20s... they don't get much privacy and freedom to have sexual encounters.

2. I read an article recently that more and more teenagers are starting to have active sex lifes much earlier... but the current generation overall (the 20+) is still pretty sheltered.

3. Due to the one child policy... there's tremendous pressure for the family's only son or daughter to get married as quickly as possible... especially the daughters. So, often they marry the first decent guy who comes along... not necessarily out of love... but to appease the parents.

4. Most of the local men (no intent to offend any of the local chinese mongers in this forum!), whether married or in a relationship almost all have either a mistress or play away in one form or another (KTVs, saunas, bars).

Anyway, i am sure there are lots more reasons...

However, since i have been in china i have had more partners than i could have imagined... married, engaged, single, with boyfriends...

The last time i was in Shanghai and went out with a friend... she brought along a couple of her friends. One was a lady, soon to be married. The other was a guy, got a steady longterm girlfriend. Anyway, by the end of the evening... the 2 of them could barely keep their hands off each other... and eventually they left together. I was amazed! whilst my friend was totally non-plussed about it. She then told me an interesting ethos that most locals seemingly abide by... loosely translated... "If you are not married, then you are single and anything goes".

Happy hunting!

07-01-04, 02:14
I wanted to comment on the Chinese girl "virgin" bullshit. I was seeing a 19 year old girl in Nanjing. I met her on yahoo and saw her when I went to Nanjing. She came to my hotel and she let me eat her out. At first, she said bj was out of the question because it was dirty. With a little coaxing she did it and even swallowed my cum. She also let me fuck her in the ass but would not let me fuck her pussy. She says she wants to be a virgin for the guy she marries. In my book she is not even close to a virgin anymore but in her mind she is still pure because she didnt give up the pussy.

Yellow Fever #2
07-01-04, 14:12
My girlfriend of nearly 2 years wants to get married. She is Chinese, I am from Canada.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of getting married in:

Hong Kong?
any where else?

Please help, this is an urgent matter. She is driving me crazy!

I think the simplest is China - we can get married very easily and quickly. A divorce can also be easy and quick.

If we get married in Hong Kong - is it difficult to divorce if it does not work out? Can we divorce in China with a Hong Kong marriage?

I like to think we have a good and happy future but I am not compeltely confident.

Please help.

Angel Eyes
07-02-04, 01:24
I knew a 30+ year old girl who was a virgin. I was sure it was hopeless by the way she talked. A real Chinese conservative.

But she isn't anymore, and although it felt like forever, looking back I see it was actually not a long time, from meeting her to making sure she won't marry as a virgin.

Now, it might be my over powering sex appeal (kidding), or something else, but she didn't bullshit me, or at least, she believed every word she said. And I did, too. Up to the moment I suddenly realized I'm taking her to bed.

St Germain
07-02-04, 04:10
Yellow Fever,

Here's my 2 cents on your marriage question.

I am American. 4 years ago I married my Chinese girlfriend. We had been in a relationship for 3 years before that.

Since I was working in HK at the time (she was living in Guangzhou) we registered the marriage in HK. The process was simple and took about 4 weeks or so from the time we turned in the application to the actual 5-minute ceremony. However, I think at least one of the parties has to be a HK resident in order to get married in HK (I was a resident at the time).

Unfortunately, the marriage has not worked out. We have been separated for 9 months now, and divorce is just a matter of time.

If you eventually find your marriage isn't working, then whether not it will be easy for you to get a divorce will depend mainly on whether the divorce is contested or not. My divorce is likely to be contested and messy (unless by some miracle she changes her mind and decides NOT to try to take me to the cleaners...yeah right).

So if you eventually want to get out of the marriage, I think you should just assume that she will contest the divorce. Never assume it will be "quick and easy".

Based on my own inquiries, it appears that if you register the marriage in HK, it is possible to get a divorce in either HK or China.

To get the divorce in HK, one of the parties must be a HK resident or at least be able to show "a significant connection to HK" (e.g. employment by a HK company, frequent trips to HK, etc.). If she contests the divorce, then you have to clock 2 years of separation before you can file for divorce and then look forward to a long court process (at least several months probably--I'm not at that stage yet).

Getting the divorce in China is easy if both sides agree. But don't fall into that wishful thinking trap. If she contests, then my understanding from a Chinese lawyer as to the way it usually works is this: The first time you file for contested divorce, the application works its way through the system for about 6 months, after which the result is usually that the divorce is NOT approved. So then you appeal and file again. After another 6 months or so, the divorce is usually approved. That's apparently the way it works in most cases, but of course in China lots of factors add to the unpredictability of the outcome, e.g. her family connections, the judge's venality, etc. For a foreigner, I would think divorce outside China is likely to be cleaner.

Finally, as someone who has been there and is now on the road back to blissful singledom, I think that, instead of worrying about where to get married, a far more important question you should ask is whether or not you are ready to get married. You implied that your girlfriend is pushing you to get married. My gf did that too, and stupidly I agreed before I was ready. It was the biggest mistake of my life. Now I am staring in the face of an expensive and messy divorce.

Get married ONLY when you are 100% ready to do so, not before that, no matter what she says.

And if you finally decide to go ahead with it, at least get an enforceable prenup. Insist on it, no matter how much she kicks and screams about it. If she really loves you then she'll get over it, and you will be glad you did.

Good luck to you.


Travel Dog
07-02-04, 06:12

If you must do it, China is better because the laws favor the man. Divorce is much easier and the custody of any children favors the man also.

Dick Johnson
07-02-04, 07:52
Opinions and advice for mainland Chinese women:

-Do not pluck all our eyebrows and paint a fake one in. It looks fake and when you wash it off I feel like I'm f*cking a ghost at nite.

Keep them more natural.

-Do not use diet drugs. You girls are usually naturally thin and even if not, being a bit voluptous aint bad. Use diet drugs once and you will find yourself with a layer of fat that's impossible to lose.

-Date selectively. Chose foreign guys, or overseas Chinese, or local hardworking or educated guys. Stay away from those good for nothing no money local playboys/wanna be ganstas.

Wicked SH
07-02-04, 08:01
I wonder if any mainland chinese girls are even going to read this section? ;-) To see your excelent advise.

Robert Lee
07-02-04, 12:43
Yellow Fever #2

Then why are you marrying her?

If you aren't sure then don't do it.

I a choice two has to make, not one and then the other follow in the wake of it.

07-02-04, 19:28
Regarding virgin, it is interested. I have yet to see one. Girls living in big cities along the coast such as BJ and SH, having reasonable social skills but not a very ugly face, usually become sexually active at their late teens or early 20s, once they leave home for college or factory work. I can't image a woman at 40s who is a virgin but is willing to do bj and anal. When dealing with Chinese woman, I would like to rank the following activities with them, from the least to the most difficult:

1. Kissing, fondling, etc. (least difficult)
2. Intercourse.
3. bj
4. anal
5. try to con money from them (most difficult)

If you find a virgin, fuck her quick to verify. In sz, a virgin is being sold at rmb2000 a night. The second night costs rmb500. It is dirty cheap. Virginity means nothing in modern China. Of course, if the girl is a muslim from western provinces, that's another ball game.

07-02-04, 22:35
I'm in love with Hsu Chi.

I know she's Taiwanese. But she is also Han Chinese.

I need to find her look-a-like.

I have made it my mission in life. Never mind P4P, this one's a keeper.

My only problem is where to look. Is it true that most Taiwanese are originally from the Shanghai area?.

Please guys, has anyone seen anyone with similar features and, if so, in which province/city.

I can't begin to look in Hong Kong or Taiwan until I'm a millionaire because I know thats what the girls from there are looking for. For now I have to scour the mainland.

Thank's for any and all observations.



Dick Johnson
07-03-04, 04:10
Wicked SH, considering the thousands of mongers who read this site plus the pimps/operators and the authorities and other web site readers, you'll be surprised how much word from this site spreads around. BTW, thanks for the compliment.

Actually those 3 tips applies to practically all women.

Good Will Hunting
07-03-04, 05:31
Dick Johnson.

Agree in heart what you said.

Saw some pretty SHese but they all did the first one you said. Such a diaster of their pretty face.

And yes, me myself has posted some advice on thats sh and only find a few womans will never reply you again once she figured out you are not a westerner, even though you are still a foreigner.

Native Humper
07-04-04, 00:22
I experienced a situation similar to ther one Miclac reported. I met girl 21 years old on asiadragon. When I went to China she came to my room and it was not 10 minutes later and daty was on.

She spent the night and the next day we stayed in my room all day. More daty and she gave bbbjcim but I could not get cloe to her pussy with my cock. She also said she was saving her virgin for her husband.

About 6 months after I came home, she sent me a message and said that she had gone to a club and met some guy and her nailed her. Go think.

Wicked SH
07-05-04, 08:46
Great advice about divorce/marriage from Count G everyone should go and re-read it.

I think all western men need to have a pre-nup before getting married.

Remember that in china a trip to the registration office is all that is needed to get married as long as you have the certificate of mariageability from your consulate. You will be legally married although most chinese girls try to protray it as a mariage licenses it is not. Be very careful with this! It is a divorce after you are registered and you can be taken to the cleaners. I have a couple of friends that didn't heed my warnings about this and regret it to some degree. Don't let them presure you to much, you have to be understanding because they are getting presured from friends and families, but don't give in until you are ready.

Also alot of girls are only chasing the passport. Possibly cash, but nearly all want a western green card. Not all, but most will tell you anything to get the passport.

Remember that girls in BBS and KTV's are working girls. They make money by making you feel great and giving you a great GFE. Some are so good at it making men believe they are so special and wonderful that men give them all kinds of things. Cell phones, clothes, money, and just about anything else. All you have to do is read the forums from just about any country to see a love story that ended badly. As has been said many times treat the girls with respect and kindness because they are humans and possibly good people, but remember that they probably are not really interested in you they are just doing their job. Don't go dropping lots of money on them. When the money is gone so are they. That is miserable because then you don't even have the coin to go out mongering to make yourself feel better.

07-06-04, 03:28
Any Chinese nymphomaniacs?

Is sex always about the money for Chinese girls?

Has anyone on this board ever met a Chinese girl that just wants to listen to music, get high and f**k her brains out just because it feels good?. Are they all prudes?.

I knew a Filipina in Canada like that once. Just loved sex and could not get enough cock. She wanted nothing in return but to cum and cum.

Does China have any nymphos or are they all dead f**ks who are only in it for the money. I know it's not the sixties man but what happened to free love?. Any women out there in China that want to have sex just because it's pleasurable?. C'mon ladies you don't have the catholic church trying to make you feel guilty about it like they try and do in other cuntries

If not then f**k it. I'm going to the Philippines where the girls go like fuckin rabbits. Must be that latin blood.



Wicked SH
07-06-04, 12:58
Not all Chinese women are interested in money, most I have met are not. I have only met a couple that were that way, and I met both of them in bars. I also have known several chinese nymphos. But they are different in china. Chinese women have a real commitment to family and tradition. So most women aren't going to drop their pants for you simply because you told them a few good lines.

Younger women are a little more open as in 19-22, but even they are not as likely as western women to jump in bed with you. What all are looking for is committed relationships that could lead to marriage. They are wonderful women, and will treat you with respect and devotion that you won't find in most western women.

They are not prudes they just want a real relationship to feel comfortable about opening up. But when they do open up they will have sex with you pretty much as much as you want. Unlike most western women they actually want to take care of and please you.

About Filipinas be very carefull. All I have known and most I have heard of are psycos. They will get angry and stick you with a knife. I have dated a few in america and they and their friends all were crazy. One was especially violent and tried to scratch my eyes out. One of my friends was stabbed by one. I have a couple of friends that married filipinas and regret it. They are very jealous and tempermental by nature. As in all types their are exceptions to the rule. I have heard of a few that were sweet loving subservient girls, but only a few and none personally.

07-06-04, 23:30

As far as you know most that you have met are not interested in money. I think 9 times out of 10 with Chinese women it is about money one way or another. If they dont have much of it then they are looking for a guy for "security" and "stability". This means money. God forbid they have more money than you or a higher social status then they will never let you live it down and her family with never give you an ounce of respect. That is just there way of thinking about it. I think in China marriage is more like a business deal than anything else. This is not just between a foreigner and a Chinese girl but among Chinese themselves. Also, even among the ones who will give you sex anytime you want it, it is not always very enthusiastic. They will give it to you out of a sense of duty but that's about it. The Chinese woman who really is crazy about sex and is a total "nympho" is rare. Sex is about making babies for most Chinese women. I think women in China can be a fun diversion if you dont lose your head about it and let some ***** snow you.

The Jello
07-07-04, 05:22
I'd been in Asia for the past 13 years of which 5 in China.

Any one has its own opinion and expereince, on my personal experience I believe that all cinese women are in for the money, in one way or the other. It is in their mentality and way of living.

A Philippina will be happy living by the beach fucking her man day and night and eating bananas. The Chinese girl will make the guy care for the banana plant and sell the crops for the money.


07-07-04, 05:36

Maybe it's because you're foreigner, or because you do not speak the language well (just guessing), but a few of those statements you made are way off base. I've met a bunch of nymphos who aren't out for the money. In China a lot of these girls are side girl friends with expense accounts. They're looking for some fun too.

07-07-04, 08:51
interesting topic and imho all are valid points. i have lived here for 10 years and speak better chinese than a lot of the waidiren. also, i have been with literally hundreds of girls over the years from sw to models. there is a direct correlation between the beauty of the girl and the money required. there are exceptions of course, but 99% of the time this is the case. by the time a really pretty girl is 13 years old, their shu shu is hitting on them and these chicks begin to learn damn well they are going to have a future very different than their unattractive friends. why do you think the real heaters can't speak a dime of english? because they know from an early age it will be a different road and they don't have to study hard. come to think of it, i don't think i have ever seen a drop dead looking girl here in china that can speak english. if you want to find a sex partner/gf who is a real looker be prepared to spend money, end of story. these chicks have rent to pay, expensive clothes, travel to/from hometown etc. the money that is flying around china these days is insane. if you don't spend it on them there are multitudes with serious cash who will. the most expensive age group is 20 to 28 years old.

if the girl is average looking your chances increase and if she speaks english even better because then you can be her teacher. learning english seems to be all the rage.

chinese are generally very intelligent people and some of the most frugal people on the planet. a really bright chick is going to always be thinking of ways to better her future rather than run up the snatch speedometer just for hell of it.


Wicked SH
07-07-04, 09:33
Jello and Miclac,

Jello, if you truely knew the Philippines you would know that they don't call themselves philippina, they call themselves filipina. But as I said before they are psyco however you spell it.

You might be right about a filipina sitting on the beach being lazy eating the bananas, and the chinese girl getting herself out of the house working hard and selling them. But you are definetly wrong about chinese girls sex drives, and who would care for the banana plant. The chinese girl would certainly take care of the plant, give you lots of great sex regardless of whether it was because of duty or desire.

You two and several others seem to really misunderstand chinese women and money. Your right that money matters to them. But not how you seem to think. They don't care if you are rich or poor. They don't want to spend all your money. They will wear old clothes and eat lower quality food, and cook the meals, and clean the house themselves, and do everything they can not to spend money so they can save it. They will work hard, save and invest. They will want their husband to work hard, save and invest. But they are not as strict on him about it as they are themselves. They expect men to go out and drink a beer with the guys on occasion, to buy toys and such.

Chinese girls want to develop a relationship and build a family. They are pragmatic and want to build a positive future with their mate and family. Now this is a generalization and like all generalizations not every chinese girl follows this pattern. Shanghai girls are somewhat more materialistic than Suzhou girls. They want white skin, nice clothes and better houses. But they still believe in the fundamental qualities of hard work, saving and investing, building a family and such.

Filipinas on the other hand are very materialistic. They want to wear RL Polo, DKNY, and such. They want the mercedes or lexus car. They want to go out shopping and prefer not to work. They are also very jealous and possesive. You can not go out for a beer with your friends unless she comes with you. You better not look at another girl. And filipinas have a tendancy towards violence.

This is my experience with both types of women and that of my friends. Your mileage will vary.

Miclac your comment about social status is somewhat correct. But not many of us mongers are going to have to much of an issue with it. We are not even very likely as westerners to meet those girls. Even if we do unless you pretend to be or are very wealthy you will not likely marry her and there by not be an issue. Since you are a westerner your status is higher than that of all but the more wealthy families. Unless your scum of coarse, but then you know you are and why are you marring a high class girl.

I have a rule about who I spend time with regardless of whether she works at the BBS, KTV, or she is a girl friend I met through a friend or something. The girls that are ok with westerners don't hide it, if you stick with the girls that seem to want to be with you you will have good experiences. She will have a twinkle in her eye, there will be body language, she will likely move closer to you. She will certainly be more friendly than a normal girl. If you stick with those girls whether your dating or paying you will have pretty good luck. Keep in mind she might not be as good looking as the best looking girl, but she wants to be with you. So unless you want to marry her what does it matter as long as she is attractive and takes good care of your little man that is what counts.

My humble opinion.

07-07-04, 22:34

As for that being your "humble" opinion, I dont see much humility in your statements. As for the other poster, I do speak Chinese. I also never said I haven't met any Chinese girls who were really horny. I have met and enjoyed a few of them. I am not saying that Chinese women are really any worse than women in other countries. I just think they have their own unique ways about them and if you are willing to accept it then that is fine. I just think that you should not have any fantasies about meeting a great "traditional" girl in China. I think most say they are "traditional"(chuan tong de) or conservative(bao shou de) women as a way to see how long they can make you wait. This is not always the case but it is often the case. Just like women in many places they just dont want to appear too easy. I think you need to sort out the b.s and you will be fine. I also think that before you fall for some girl in China you had better be sure you know what you are getting yourself into. You should also consider that know matter how good you think your Chinese is or how much you think you know about China that they will always consider you an outsider and you will never be Chinese.

The Jello
07-08-04, 09:44
Wicked SH,

Sorry but my Tagalog is a bit rusty. You are rite the correct spelling is Filippina.

I'm sorry you had bad experience in US, mabe there Filippinas are mor stuck up; but clearly you are wrong when you talking about branded clothes and cars.

Cinese are born to worship branded goods.

You live in Shanghai, take a look around a shopping mall, same as HK and Singapore.

Anyway Feiji had better words than me and I agree with him.

Good Hunting,

The Jello

07-09-04, 03:11

What is a "Shu Shu"?.



07-09-04, 03:34
Wicked SH,

In your previous post you discuss dating pretty girls and the associated costs. (clothes, money, cars etc).

You then go on to mention that the best looking hottest girls are most likely to marry a wealthy Chinese, or perhaps a foreigner that is wealthy also (you mentioned that being a foreigner automatically bestows a certain amount of social status).

As you seem to have a great deal of insight on the subject I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

1) Suppose I am a handsome, wealthy (10 million US+) foreigner who was university educated, would I be able to, theoretically, marry any "class" or beauty of Chinese girl I so desired? And what is the youngest age a wealthy Chinese family would let their daughter marry at and how old would be too old for the groom to be? (would I have to pay a dowry?).

2) When you refer to "wealthy Chinese" and "very wealthy families", how much wealth are you talking here approximately?. 1 million?, 5 million?, 10 million?, 25 million or more. Or, because this is China are their definitions of "wealth" lower than western levels on a dollar basis?. I know when you are wealthy in Hong Kong then you REALLY are wealthy. Is it the same for the mainland?.

Thanks for your response



Mock A Bee
07-09-04, 16:23

Shu Shu means "uncle". I have also heard Shu Shu used in reference to "police man".

Wicked SH
07-09-04, 16:28
"Shu Shu" is Mandarin for a girl or boys fathers younger brother. Or uncle.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard capitalization throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no capital lettering. Thanks!

Norse Kaiser
07-10-04, 04:29
"Shu Shu" has a lot of implications, it can simply be a common way of greeting any male person who is about 15 years or more your senior, or it can also refer to the younger brother of anyone's father,

Anybody who wants to use this phrase when talking about a police man had better add " jing cha " ahead of it, which means police, or else it can be quite confusing in one way or another. Still then this will be a argot of some sort.

At times, it may be a casual and informal title to address any male person who has authority over others.

Norse kaiser

Big One
07-10-04, 20:02
Note: This is a continuation of the discussion regarding the pros and cons of freebies in China that began in the Shanghai section.


It's true that freebies are not always free in so many ways. But it can be nice to have a woman that likes you and really cares about you. (I’m not talking about gold diggers here that just want your money). Sure, you may do stuff that you don’t always want to do and it is definitely a pain in the ass compared to the simplicity of going to prostitutes, but freebies do have their benefits. (Of course, it really helps if the freebie is hot). For the people reading this, there is not a shortage of “good” Chinese women that like Western guys, though Japan is probably much better as a place for casual sexual relationships with normal women.

As a fellow mongerer (and a big fan of Blankie and his posts) I am most definitely not trying to preach here. I guess all I am saying is that it is perhaps best to have a balance between mongering and normal women. I know how mongering in China can become addictive, but don’t allow mongering to completely replace interactions with normal chicks.

Big One

Big One
07-11-04, 00:20
Note: This is a continuation of the discussion regarding the pros and cons of freebies in China that began in the Shanghai section.


It's true that freebies are not always free in so many ways. But it can be nice to have a woman that likes you and really cares about you. (I’m not talking about gold diggers here that just want your money). Sure, you may do stuff that you don’t always want to do and it is definitely a pain in the ass compared to the simplicity of going to prostitutes, but freebies do have their benefits. (Of course, it really helps if the freebie is hot). For the people reading this, there is not a shortage of “good” Chinese women that like Western guys, though Japan is probably much better as a place for casual sexual relationships with normal women.

As a fellow mongerer (and a big fan of Blankie and his posts) I am most definitely not trying to preach here. I guess all I am saying is that it is perhaps best to have a balance between mongering and normal women. I know how mongering in China can become addictive, but don’t allow mongering to completely replace interactions with normal chicks.

Big One

07-11-04, 07:13
Interesting thread. I feel compelled to throw in with my 2 cents.

I'm not as experienced as most of you on this board when it comes to Chinese women, but the few I've know (in China and the U.S.) are certainly no more mercenary than their counterparts elsewhere.

I'm wondering where most of you guys are from. Looking past a night of passion to see the wallet behind it is a common trait of almost all women, isn't it? I think it is a genetic tendency of the female gender. Think about it; the male biological imperitive is to impregnate as many women as possible. That is how WE ensure the survival of our genes. We can father literally thousands of offspring (assuming we can find enough willing partners).

Women, on the other hand, must nurture and provide for and protect the relatively few offspring they can birth (20-25 tops, nothing like us guys). They are hard-wired to provide for their kids. I think this biological tendency is more pronounced in poorer countries where finding a competent (or well off) mate can literally mean the difference between life and death.

I don't want to hear about mercenary Chinese women. Go to New York City and check out a singles club on a Friday night. Report back with the results.

As for Chinese vs. Filippina women.... sorry for that digression, but the Chinese women I've known have all been classy, even the dancers I've met in bars. We are coarse in comparison. I'll never forget a gal disdainfully asking me if I was still hungry because I was chewing my nails after dinner, and she was a SW!!

In my experience, Chinese woman are practical, but no more money-grubbing than any other race or nationality. They have an ancient civilization and I love them.

As for the Filippina? Well, I was married to one for 6 years. It ended, sh*t you not, in me being stabbed because she was jealous of me going to night school (after working all day). She was convinced I was cheating (I wasn't). I know that in the Southern Provinces, they seem to have a different kind of knife for each kind of killing. I was fluent in Tagalog at the time, although that wasn't a big help in the south..... I can tell you from vast experience, those women can be (and usually ARE) f*cking crazy. If you can keep them from being jealous or losing their temper, you will have lots of "f*ck like a rabid weasel" sex, BUT..... the best lover I ever had was a beautiful Chinese girl in Hong Kong, maybe 19 y.o., and no money changed hands.

Spike, out.....

Sound Stream #2
07-12-04, 11:06

With money, you can't get any girl you want. But it can make it easier, because having more money can affect your attitude.
Think about it, if you have more money than you can spend,
and do not have to worry about work (which alot of people have to worry about), that'll reflect in your overall attitude, and you'll be perceived as being one of the liveliest and free spirited happy guy. That kind of attitude gets you a lot of women.

If I really like a girl, I never tell them how much I make in order to impress them. I know that geniune love is something you can not buy with money. If you bought your girl friend with money, some other person who knows how to express themselves in a way that touches a girl's emotional self in way she rarely feels, that person can easily take her away from you. So instead of spending money, I show them with my mindset and attitude that I'm the best, and I know it. I have what it takes to make her feel alive, and she feels much better about living life when I'm in it.

So if you're serious about a girl, don't ever try to win her over with your money, instead, win her over by taking her heart.

But, on the other hand, if its just some girl you want to shagg,
or for short term, winning them over with money will do.

Dog Day
07-13-04, 04:30
Been in China quite a while. Have dated quite a number of Chinese women and my observations are:

- Majority likes to go out with guys that gives them a sense of security. This does not necessarily mean money though for some it does)

- It is hard to say if you can have sex with your date or not. Some looks "easy" but hard to get into bed. Some looks prude but will have sex with you on the first date.

- Shanghainese girls like to be treated like queens. Chinese girls from other provinces does not.

- Virginity is still important to some. Have dated two women who can stay in my place. You can kiss and do some kinky things except penetrate her pussy.

- Some treat sex like a need. I have dated girls and had sex with-out any commitment. They said they need it and want to enjoy it.

- On the nympho issue. I met a girl last week-end who looks virginal. We chatted on the internet and we met because we plan to have sex the whole week-end, which we did. She was insatiable.

- Young girls are so guillible. Now is open season on students looking for some summer fun. Young, good looking western dudes will have the first choice on these batch. These students like to experience sex with a young, good looking studs. There will be some that will go with some older western guys though. A few will go out with old Asian men like me. just had a fling with a 21 year old student 3 weeks ago. It cost me a bundle since we went to Qingdao for a week-end and stayed in a 5-star hotel. She was worth it since she was a stunner, and a virgin. The week-end cost me $500. We did not see each other after the trip.

- Some women are just so lovable and nice. My present lover is from Nanjing, a real pretty girl of 24. If I was single, I would marry this girl. She is sweet, nice and not materialistic at all. When we go to restaurants, she picks the simplest food, never ask for shopping money and will not even take money for her taxi. I guess sometimes you meet a real gem.

This is all I can share, for now.

Harley FL
07-21-04, 22:55
Married to Chinese girl for 2 yrs. We are divorced now because USA would never approve her to come over here. Her father was a Chinese diplomat. That may or may not have been the problem. I will tell you that I was treated like a king during my stays in Beijing. The girl I married was very virtuous, yet when we married she became a nymph. I loved sex with her because when she came, she squirted as much as me. It was a great time there and I miss it. She has told me that she would never marry a Chinese man because they are very mean to their women. She is an executive and speaks fluent english. I would like for her to find a good man to marry.


James Cook
07-22-04, 13:54
The chinese girls I encountered appear much inward in character.
They are willing to have sex with guys because she love or at least like them. I am pretty sure not entire chinese girls wanna be fucked just for money. I got a chinese girl in the past few monthes and she like to do everything to my demand. But later things has changed, she turned more conservative and rejected to have some fun together. I ask her what make her act in total different ways. She said the former affection had faded away, she don't love me any more as she used to do, therefor sex has been graduatly reduced.

My reflection is that being a real "gentleman" is very important and will definitely render you more sex and less bucks. The girls will make their measurement of men through trivial affars, such as holding the door open, pulling out the chairs, give them comfort when they have experienced distress or relief when overdrunk, ect. Treat them nice and gentle, thus stream of free sex activities will definitely follow.

Dog Day is right about young girls. They are very guillible and are very crazy to enjoy the sense of romantics and fashion thing. Honey promise, swear and other sweet words do work out. This provide tremendous opportunities for these good-looking young dude.


07-22-04, 14:40
Advise please!

I have been living in Shanghai for more than a year now and have gone through a lot of P4P experience.

Now I have a great chance of having a nice lady into my bed for free. But I am little curious about the aftermath / risk factor.

She is living next door. Her hubby seems to be a rich man but always away. The wife (the lady) is desparate for f**ck. She has invited me many times to her house at night when she is alone. Few ocations she knocked my door around mid night as she doesnt get sleep.

I may loose my control. She is too hot! I am thinking of accepting her invitation soon or should I wait till the last week of my stay in Shanghai. Or is there any trap?

What do the members say. Please advise.


07-23-04, 00:39

There is a saying in Chinese, The Rabbit never eats the grass around its burrow.

So my suggestion is tell her that at the moment you don't think its a good idea, but that once you are almost gone it will be a different story, keep her fire for you hot.

Just my POV.

Mock A Bee
07-23-04, 17:09

Absolutely give her the pleasure of her life. Bbang her till she can't take it anymore!

Just don't get caught! If her husband truly is wealthy, then he can literally get away with murder.

Good luck!

James Cook
07-25-04, 04:20

Just relax and bang her, but only in your apartment. You don't know what deal in her room, probably a hidden camera scan you nude.


07-25-04, 07:09
Quick question for the group. Any comments on Black men in China? I'm an experienced Black male and relatively comfortable financially. I recently developed a fondness for Asian women after a short affair with a Chinese woman. She was one of the most beautiful women I've ever been with. And that experience left me wanting more.

I've visited (and sampled) many places in North, Central and South America. Now I'm turning my sights to Asia. Any info would be appreciated. Either in the general message board or private message.



07-26-04, 00:16

I've spent a lot of time in China, and I will be returning to Beijing iate August for 8 weeks. You didn't specify where you thought about going but here is my thoughts on the scene.

I have a Chinese girlfriend there in her mid-20's from previous visits who I adore, and have also partaken in the mongering scene with professionals at the typical *****monger place you visit, and also just picking up women I have met out and about.

I'm not black, but I have had at least three ladies ask me about black culture, usually when they go off on a tangent about my penis size compared to Chinese men. And their comments on blacks have been less than kind.

They do tend to have negative attitudes towards black men. Both men and women feel this way. Unfortunately, the black male is not viewed favorably, you will not have much luck meeting women for a GF experience once you are there, unless you develop some kind of relationship in advance. It's not a scientific fact, but from my sampling all three had the same views, and these were educated women with good jobs and a good income for a Beijing Chinese woman.

However, on the other hand, the few black males I have seen out and about in Beijing seemed to be having a great time, but it was always at a club where there are prostitutes.

I'd encourage you to go and have fun regardless, or else try to find a more Aisan intense American city like the Bay area for Asian chicks who are more comfortable with black guys.

I'm 40, good career, still attractive, divorced 5 years ago, and the ladies I have met in China have always been far superior in their dedication to even a short-term relationship than any American or Euro woman I have been with. I'll refrain from talking about my ex, that is a whole nother story.

Striking a relationship with a Chinese chick is an amazing experience. There are tons of them in their mid-20's who are frustrated with Chinese men, and as a 40 year old single guy, I just love them telling me all about it, as well as how much I appreciate China's culture, history and growing economic entity.

Go get yourself one, they are great.

Three I
07-26-04, 07:55
The women in Dalian are the best! I have never been to China but I will go this Dec. All of the Chinese women that are cool with me are or were from Dalian China!

Norse Kaiser
07-26-04, 09:27
Well, yes, compared with women from other parts of China, those from Dalian tend to be more passionate and more relaxed with men.


Wicked SH
07-27-04, 08:34
I love chinese women! I have been very busy recently so haven't had much time to post.

Right now I have three or four freebies. One on her way as I write this. (I know which is it three or four, it depends on how you define freebie ;-)

I have had a great time the past couple of weeks in shanghai, shenzhen, and hong kong. With BBS, KTV, and women I met incidentaly. I have had awesome sex with more than 20 girls.

All of the freebies could be a great girl friend or wife if I was ready for such. They are nymphos giving me hours of sex everytime I get together with them. Sending me dirty messages, and seducing me. I check out some boards in the USA and else where and I feel so sorry for them and their problems. First P4P is not as easy to get as here. 2nd girls treat the guys like shit. 3rd you rarely hear about nymphos in the US. 4th they spend way more money than us. 5th on and on and on.

I love this country, and its women.

The Search
07-28-04, 05:10
In response to Eddie, I would say that you will do fine in China. Generally people have uninformed views of black people. It is not just China; the same case applies all over.

I am a black guy and I had plenty of fun during my trip to south China. Just like any other women, there are plenty of Chinese women that are curious about black guys. They may be afraid, but will indeed warm up to you very quickly once you engage them in a conversation. I was able to meet and sample regular girls from a dance club, restaurant (she literally came to me), hotel frontdesk lady, tour guide, and ofcourse the ones I had already met on yahoo. There was too much snatch for me to schedule in my three weeks visit. Yes, and they were free. Ofcourse not counting food. The only time I paid to play was in HK.

07-29-04, 00:29

It's too close to home. If the husband finds out, and he is indeed rich, powerful and connected, he can make life very difficult for you in China.

Just my POV.


07-29-04, 05:33
My opinion,

I'm now about 2 years in China (mostly shenzhen area), and my real life here started after about 3 months. First you get the "moneygirls" after your tail. If you are in China just for short period, my advise, go for them all.

If you are in China for long period, my advise, stay away from them.
It will harm your reputation once you go for the real work.

So after 3 months my face became familiar in the streets, bars, restaurant, hotels, etc.

I meet a lot of girls who are in for a relationship, just make clear
you are not ready for that. I'm too young I say, (as for chinese women, I am young, just 31) Otherwise you will stuck on your first date and the others you gone have todo behind her back. My mistake in the beginning.

This will bring your chances of getting layed pretty down, but
no panic there's plenty more.

I take my time, most girls I get layed with are my friends, we go out, have dinner, go to movies, play some pool, drink some beer. What this cost me, some beer, some dinner, some taxi (if they have no car). Not quite different from my country. The only different is that in my country I'm lucky to have 5 girlfriends, here I can have unlimited.
Some of my girlfriends I never had sex with and I never will, they just good companion. Other, we end up always in bed.

Most girl are fairly young, 20-35, so they like "experimenting". Yes it's fun. And I can asure you its much more fun if you know each other for a while.

I never want to leave China!

Some tips:

- Buy large boxes of condoms, they are much cheaper.

- Try not to fall in love, i know its hard sometimes. but its the end of the hunter.

- Do not chase your dick, chase fun, your dick will have his fun later.

- If your good looking (like me, lol) always say your poor poor poor. (well I am a little poor to be honest) But again it seperates the moneygirls from the honeygirls.

As I must admits once they know you very well, money is not important for them anymore. Dispite from what i read in this forum,that my experience.

- Girls with cars are highly recommanded, they can drive you to the ones with no car!

- Be nice to ugly girls, they might have a handsome friend.

- And go after chinese twins, like the goldmember movie. I am counting 2 for now.(that is pairs of course)

- Dick size is not important (no I am not small!) its the way you use it.

- Sometimes the chase is better then the catch!

Good Luck and have fun in this lovely country!

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Angel Eyes
07-30-04, 01:59
Pazusu, nice post.

I liked the most this line:

"Girls with cars are highly recommanded, they can drive you to the ones with no car!"

Angel Eyes

07-30-04, 06:29
I can second all The Search has said about brothas doing well in Asia. I am a black guy who is currently married to a filipina. Before I got hitched, (and sometims still) I sampled the wares of many asian hunnies. I've been to Indonesia, Hong Kong, and the Philippines for starts, and have always had good success. Filipinas are generally more open and accepting, due some already having experience with black men. I also used to belong to several dating sites like AsianEuro, FilipinaHeart and ThaiLoveLinks, and always seem to get a great deal of very interested asian hunnies. Dont believe me, just try openning a profile at any of these, and find out for yourself. In short fellas, dont sweat it. Some might be put off, but still more will be receptive. Sure some are after El Green Card or cash, (happens to all menregardless) but hey whatever gets you the ass. Afterall, we are on this board talking about buying that pussy anyway. Though if you treat them with respect, there's usually no trouble getting freebie's. Best sex I ever had was a Javanese chick I met through a dating service. Flew to Indonesia to meet her, and she gave it up the first day we met. Stayed there about three weeks, and fucked everyday there. She couldnt get enough. You gotta let got of the bull we have learned in our society, and jsu go have a blast or two. By the way, I am planning a trip to either Thailand or PI in a few months, would love to met up with other mongers for a few days of joint hunts. If interested email me at: [Email Address deleted by Admin]

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08-24-04, 02:45
Survey: Chinese most tolerant about extra-marital affairs

NEW YORK (AFP) — Chinese are world leaders in tolerating extramarital affairs, according to a new survey that also reveals that Americans are most likely to let religion influence their sex lives.

Twenty-three percent of Chinese believe it is all right to have an affair, especially one in which "nobody gets hurt", according to the survey released by Euro RSCG, a marketing communications agency.

The company asked people in five countries and said only 11 percent of Britons and nine percent of Americans approved of affairs.

Euro RSCG said the French and German samples were close to the Chinese level.

In all countries except Britain, more men than women would allow affairs.

In China, it was 27 percent of men against 14 percent of women, Germany 28 percent to 16, and in the United States, 13 percent of men against four percent of women.

But among Britons, 11 percent of both sexes said an affair was OK.

Only France came close, with 20 percent of men and 17 percent of women agreeing.

Despite their liberal attitude, Chinese are also more likely to believe monogamy is the best way: 70 percent of them agree, compared with 57 percent of Americans but only 44 percent in France, 42 percent in Britain and 40 percent in Germany.

The Chinese are also the least likely to consider it normal for somebody aged about 30 to have had 10 or more different lovers during his or her single years.

Just 17 percent of Chinese agreed, compared with 30 percent of French, 49 percent of Americans, 52 percent of Germans, and 59 percent of British.

Euro RSCG said its Prosumer Pulse 2004 survey asked 1,982 Americans, 2,127 British, 2,000 French, 3,158 Germans, and 2,079 Chinese about attitudes to sex, finance, technology and commerce.

The survey also delved into how much religion affects sexual behaviour.

Thirty-nine percent of Americans said it did. But only three percent of French agreed.

In between there was Britain on 16 percent, China on 15 percent and Germany on six percent.