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Admin
09-18-04, 15:48
Please select "Add New Report" to begin this section.

Young & Restless
09-18-04, 16:06
Jackson, thanks for the Portuguese Phrases section!

To anyone with knowledge of sex phrases in Portuguese:

I speak very decent Portuguese, but I'm trying to better prepare for my trip in November. Unfortunately, Pimsleur left out the unit that covers sex phrases, so if anyone can just give me a run down of the basics I would certainly appreciate it. A few examples are blowjob, blowjob w/ out condom, eat pussy, big tits, big butt, so on and so forth.

Many thanks in advance!

Y & R

Junior
09-18-04, 16:44
Here is my first attempt:

Here is a few useful phrases. My spelling may not be 100% accurate

Eu queiro = I would like
What would you like ? = o que voce quer ?
Sexo = sex
Amor = love (in Brazil you do not have sex - you make love )
Oral sex = sexo oral
Anal sex = sexo anal
Without condom = sin camisinha (sp?)
Let us make = vamos fazer

How much = quanto costa
How long time = quanto tempo
How many times = quantos vezes

Do you have a girlfriend = voce tem uma amiga
You are beautiful = voce e bonita or voce e uma beleza
Is she beautiful = ela e bonita ?

I am going for breakfast = vou comer cafe de mañha
I am going for lunch = vou almocar ( c=z)
I am going for dinner = vou jantar

Would you like to join me ? = voce quiere (almocar/jantar) comigo ?
do you know a good restaurant? = voce conhece um ristorante bom ?

I am going to the beach = vou para praia (cinema/teatro/clube/...)

Let us go to the beach = vamos para praia (...)

Would you like to go with me ? = voce vai comigo ?

What time do you finish work ? = as que horas voce termina con trabalho ?

When will you arrive? = as que horas vai chegar ?

Let us meet at 2pm = vamos encontrar as 2 (duas horas)

Will you go to my hotel with me? = voce vai para meu hotel (apartemento) comigo?

Numbers:
10 = dez
20 = veinte
30 = treinta
40 = cuarenta
50 = cincuenta
60 = sesenta
70 = setenta
80 = oitenta
90 = noventa
100 = cien
200 = dois cientos

Brasilians reals = reals ( prenounced hreais)

US dollars = dolares

And in case you meet that special lady - vamos casar? (let us get married?)


My portuguese is pretty good, so feel free to ask for any other translations you might think of.

Young & Restless
09-18-04, 17:19
Junior,

Thanks for the info. I can speak the ones that you posted. You learned from Pimsleur, right? The words that I am trying to learn how to say are probably considered slang... like blowjob instead of oral sex.

Also, if anyone is good at writing the English pronunciations that would be a MAJOR help... (e.g. Red Bull = Hej-Bul, importante = een-poor-tan-chee).

Happy hunting,

Y & R

Junior
09-18-04, 18:38
I will add a few more words and phrases:

Blowjob = chupar
BBBJ = chupar sem camisinha
BBBJTCIM = chupar ate gozar, chupar completa
eat pussy = chupar ( I also like to say eat = comer )
tits = seios
butt = bunda
small butt = bundinha
big = grande
penis = penis
doggy style = de quatro
cowgirl = sentando
reverse cowgirl = reverso
kiss = beijar
DFK = beijar com lingua


I have never used Pimsleur - I prefer to learn from the girls while in brazil and a private tutor while at home. Bringing a brasiliera home for a few months like I did will also improve your portuguese tremendously.

Junior

Young & Restless
09-18-04, 18:47
Junior,

Rock on man! I had a girl from Venezuela come stay with me for a month and my Spanish improved immensely. Thanks for the slang versions of the Portuguese sex phrases!

Y & R

J Wadd
09-19-04, 00:47
My favorite: Lingua me culo ("Lick my ass"). Not sure if it's perfect Portuguese, bad Portuguese, Spanish or Chinese -- but it works! They understand exactly what you're saying.

JW

Jacaré
09-19-04, 01:27
Good list Junior, however, 2 questions for you:

1) on your first post, isn't amiga used to describe a friend and not a girlfriend? Isn't girfriend in Brasil, uma namorada? Just curious as I didn't know that the word amiga could also be used to describe a girlfriend.

2) lick pussy could be translated into lambar a buceta/bucetinha...;)

Jacaré.

Tom6
09-19-04, 03:44
I can't seem to make it thru Pimsluer. My schedule at work seems so hectic. Can anyone recommend going to a class while in Rio, since I will be going for a week to ten days. I haven't decided the length yet, but am just about ready to just drive to Miami, go to the embassy, get the visa and fly out that night.

I would love to hire a translator part time. Is that reasonable. I did that in Japan, with a student for pretty cheap, and really enjoyed her english skills.

Thanks for your advice

Tom

Bubba Boy
09-19-04, 05:01
Jackson,

Can we get a fluent portuguese speaker in here to edit these posts. The effort is great but there are some major errors in here which would be of no use to have people learn.

Jasper Malloy
09-19-04, 07:10
My three words of portugese:

Bunduda
Popozuda

Both apparently mean "big butt" or refer to someone owning such a butt.

Peituda

Same meaning, but in regards to breasts.

See? I know some of the important things.

John
09-19-04, 15:03
junior,

i just found out from a local girl that

penis=peeru
vagina= puseta.

i think the above are correct because we had a joke about this at monte carlo yesterday.

Junior
09-20-04, 04:45
>>Good list Junior, however, 2 questions for you:

1) on your first post, isn't amiga used to describe a friend and not a girlfriend? Isn't girfriend in Brasil, uma namorada? Just curious as I didn't know that the word amiga could also be used to describe a girlfriend.

2) lick pussy could be translated into lambar a buceta/bucetinha...

Jacaré.

<<<

1: Namorada is a girlfriend. I was thinking more along of the line does she have a friend we could use for a threesome.

2: Buceta is also slang for pussy. I do not know the word lambar.

Jamrod
09-20-04, 19:14
Hi everyone,

I have a BA in Português.

Lamber lambe meu cú is lick my ass. But this very very strong, you can use it, but maybe when the moment is hot...

amiga is just a friend.

ficar with someone means anything from a kiss to a girl that you don't have a future with her.

namorada is girlfriend.

Jamrod
09-20-04, 19:24
Popzuda and Bundada words like these aren't really words to impress a girl. It is about the same as talking to her using rap lyrics. I don't get putas in Brazil. But I like reading the stories from here.

You can get laid for free in RIO!

Just remember:

Smile at a girl and say OI! Tudo Bem? (say bem like bang).....it hi how are you.

Just samll talk her and be nice...ask where to eat or drink a juice....almost all girls will smile back ...remember be nice say OBRIGADO(thank you) for the info and ask to to drink a juice or eat or what ever.

If you want to drink alcohol she will either not like or thik you here just to screw putas.

It helps because I speak portuguese well.

but use

OI! tudo bem? - hi how are you?

obrigado - thank you

beija me? - kiss me?

quero beijar seus lindos lábios - I want to kiss your beautiful lips

Panman
09-21-04, 06:35
A few corrections and additions:

without condom: sem camisinha
have sex: fazer amor
lets fuck: vamos transar (more appropiate than vamos fuder)
blowjob: boquete
lick my ass: lambe meu cu
suck my dick: chupa meu peru, faz um boquete
pussy: buceta
eat pussy: chupar buceta, lamber buceta
BBBJ: boquete sem camisinha
CIM: goza na boca
hand job: toca punheta
tit fuck: espanhola
swallow: engole
faster: mais rapido
69: sessenta e nove
open your legs: abre as pernas

Young & Restless
09-21-04, 17:12
Airforce Bum,

Great list! Can you try to spell the English pronunciation of boquete? I'm guessing that it's something along the lines of "bo-keh-chee".

Thanks,

Y & R

Rodriguinho
09-25-04, 07:29
Completa = she does anal (a working girl)

acima = on top

pau = dick

porra = cum (engole minha porra)

bunda = butt (eu gosto de sua bundinha)

peitos = breasts

nossa! = wow!

transar = to have sex

trepar, fuder = to fuck

gozar = to cum

Bango Cheito
09-26-04, 03:52
'pau' for dick is used mostly by the 'viados' (homosexuals). A better word would be 'pica'

Young & Restless
09-26-04, 10:00
One thing that I have used numerous times prior to agreeing to a threesome is saying, "Voces vao fazer todas coisas juntos?" (Vo-says vown fa-zayr tow-das coysas zhoon-tows?) I am certain that this is not polished Portuguese, but it's like asking the girls "Are you both going to do everything together". For me, a threesome is only worth it if the girls put on a show for you.

This has worked like a charm for me every time that I've said it and the usual response that I get is both girls immediately start to DFK each other (and sometimes I get pulled into the action!). The session is usually a hell of a lot better if you say something like that right in the beginning.

Y & R

Uninfun
09-26-04, 19:55
Does anyone have any suggestions for advanced portugese, or conversational portugese. I'm just about done the pimselur portugese (which is 90 lessons and took me almost a year- but is pretty good). Besides renting portugese subtitled movies, are there any other language programs out there that have conversational or more advanced portugese.

Bango Cheito
09-27-04, 23:12
y&r a better way to say that in Portuguese would be 'voces se namoram?' or more formally 'voces se namoram a una a outra?'

Sounds like your way gets the desired results, but for anybody who is concerned about grammar there it is!

Grenada 79
09-28-04, 01:47
Uninfun,

I've been meaning to look into renting/buying Portguese subtitled movies. Can you suggest any titles or sources from which to do so, online or otherwise?

Also, to anyone,

I have plans to travel to both Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries in the next 10 months. Is there anyone here who has become fluent in both, starting with only an English background? I am not a complete beginner in either, but am looking for feedback or advice on which might be better to study first, etc., and how feasible studying both in a short time is. I know, like most things, it would be a better idea to start one long after proficiency in the other, but not sure I can float that.

Thanks,

p.s. JACKSON: I'm going to begin thanking you for your work on this site. It's amazing. Also, Language sections on the board of any country is a great idea, and very, very helpful.

Dick for Brains
09-28-04, 03:39
I've been going through Volume 1 of the Pimsleur series and unfortunately, many of the phrases in this thread don't appear.

Perhaps I'll have more luck in volume 2!


In spite of this, I do recommend anyone going to Brasil, take a few weeks to listen to some of these disks. They really are quite helpful.

DfB

Young & Restless
09-28-04, 05:45
bango cheito,

thanks for clearing up the difference between 'pau' vs. 'pica', that's one that i don't want to screw up on, not even once! a proposito, obrigado por sua sugestao. my problems are with trying to decide on the correct pronunciation when reading portuguese. i'm doing a lot of guess work on the pronunciation of other words posted here by other members.

you obviously know your stuff. maybe you can give some advice to members that have hit a wall, like myself and uninfun. within the week, i will have completed pims. i, ii & iii for the third time. i keep using them because i notice that even though i remember previous words, i have been forgetting to use them during speech and it helps keep me in check. they should just come out with pims. iv, v & vi...

does anyone remember the course that lorenzo mentioned a while back? i checked out the website and it looked ok, but i'm the type that has to see everyone on the board praising it before i will give it serious consideration.

grenada 79,

if you haven’t seen city of god, i highly recommend it. unfortunately, there are no portuguese subtitles and the whole movie is spoken in carioca portuguese (rio accents), but besides being an excellent movie, it will let you know real quick how much portuguese you really know. the pest has portuguese subtitles, but be warned that john leguizamo gets too annoying after about 4-minutes into the movie.

dfb,

don’t feel bad when you don’t come across it, because they forgot to put that section in mine too!!

tchau,

y & r

Rabo Verde
09-28-04, 06:43
there are lots of subtitled and dubbed movies out there, but brazil videos use the pal-m system, usa the ntsc system, so almost all dvd's and vhs made with portuguese subtitles are in the wrong format and won't work with usa equipment.

however you can listen to streaming brasilian radio and even some tv stations if you have a high speed connection. i have lots of luck with radio and limited luck with the t.v. various stations use mm, realaudio, qt, etc. so you may have to download those free players to use these links effectively. here are some links:

http://www.mikesradioworld.com/la_br.html

http://www.radios.com.br/pages-tv/tv-brasil/

http://www.radios.com.br/

http://ez2find.com/media/radio/south_america/brazil/index.php

here are some direct links to straming video of brazilian t.v.:

mms://media.brturbo.com/bandnews_secure.wmv?url=13501440143114

mms://200.226.124.9/tvjustica

(you need windows media player loaded and turned on when you click these)

Rabo Verde
09-28-04, 06:49
I speak both Spanish and Portuguese (more or less).
Have studied Spanish for 10 years plus and Portuguese for 2 years. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to learn them at the same time. You will just get confused. This happens even to native speakers who end up speaking "Portañol".

Spanish is, IMHO about 20% easier to learn than Portuguese, and is used in a lot more countries. Also, there are a lot more books, tapes and classes available in Spanish. I love Brazil and Portuguese, but overall I would recommend you learn Spanish first.

About half the words are "sort of" the same, since Portuguese is derived from Spanish. If you took some dyslexic Spanish kids, threw in a few illiterate Italians, isolated them on a desert island, and fed them crack and LSD every day, they would be speaking Portuguese in about 20 years.

Either way, Pimsleur is the best, altho expensive. Of course it is an open secret that you can bootleg most Pimsleur in mp3 format through any P2P program or www.usedtapes.com

Lorenzo
09-28-04, 10:12
Chuponalgas,

FYI: Portuguese is NOT "derived from Spanish"; I am a professor of linguistics, so this is my field. Both languages evolved independently from the dialect of late Latin that was spoken in the Iberian peninsula in the late Roman Empire. Portuguese is in fact much more closely related to Galician, which is a dialect spoken in northwestern Spain, than it is to what we call "Spanish," which in Spain is (more correctly) called Castilian, since it is the dialect spoken in Castile, the region around Madrid. But my point is that Castilian and Portuguese are both equally ancient and both descended directly from Latin.

I agree with your suggestion that it is better to learn Spanish before Portuguese. For the average native speaker of English, Spanish will be much easier to learn than Portuguese, for a number of technical reasons I won't go into here. However, once a working knowledge of Spanish has been acquired, learning Portuguese should be much easier, although not easy. If you know only Spanish, you can probably make yourself understood in Brazil, but you won't understand their replies.

As to whether or not "Pimsleur is the best," as you say, you mean that it's the best for you. What constitutes the best depends entirely on an individual's learning style. Some people are primary oral-aural in their orientation, so Pimsleur would be perfect for them. However, some people are primarily visual, i.e., they have to see a word in print before they can remember it, so Pimsleur would be disastrous for that type of person.

If you are serious about learning Portuguese and are able to spend at least a month in Rio, I recommend a course in Portuguese for foreigners offered at IBEU (Instituto Brasil Estados Unidos), which is located at Av. N.S. de Copacabana, 690. The course is offered in 3 levels, and each level is 4 weeks (4 days a week, 2 hours a day). Each level costs R822 (about US$285). If you already know some Portuguese, they will give you a placement test, so you may not have to start at level one. Their website is www.ibeu.org.br. People who take the course may speak different languages, so the course is conducted entirely in Portuguese--no translating, which is by far the best way to learn.

I suggest that everyone keep one thing in mind, that language acquisition is a skill, a knack; some people have it, some don't, just as some people are good in math and others aren't. If you have trouble learning Portuguese, just do your best. I have found in my travels that people around the world greatly appreciate foreigners just making the effort to speak their language, no matter how poorly. And for getting any non-pro pussy, knowing at least some of the language is essential.

Lorenzo

Panman
09-28-04, 10:54
Young and Restless quoted:

"Great list! Can you try to spell the English pronunciation of boquete? I'm guessing that it's something along the lines of "bo-keh-chee"."

Correct on pronunciation.

Bango Cheito quoted:

"'pau' for dick is used mostly by the 'viados' (homosexuals). A better word would be 'pica'"

That's true in most parts of Brazil, however, in the northern and most parts of northeastern Brazil 'pau' is the mostly used name for dick. However, 'pica' is understood in any place in the country.

Lorenzo:

True, portuguese has nothing to do with spanish, however a portuguese speaker has easier time understanding spanish than the opposite. Plus, portuguese does sound very similar to Italian, but as you said, that's all part of the latin dialect.

George90
09-28-04, 18:34
I speak both Spanish and Portuguese. I had learned and become almost fluent in French before I started learning Spanish. I mongered in Spanish speaking countries before travelling to Brazil. I learned Portuguese only to monger there.

Learning Spanish and Portuguese was easier for me because French is similar to them, all three being Latin derived languages. However, I used to mix French in with Spanish when I spoke Spanish and Spanish in with French when I spoke French. I am concentrating on improving my Portuguese so now I find myself mixing Portuguese into both my Spanish and my French when I speak those languages.

Iam not sure whether one is easier to learn than the other or whether it is better to learn one before the other. I do know that Portuguese is slightly more complex than Spanish. For example, Portuguese has more verb tenses. I learned of only the present subjunctive in Spanish whereas Portuguese has the present, past, and future subjunctive tenses. There appear to be fewer stem changing rules for verbs in Portugues compared to Spanish. Portuguese has a far more complex way of making plurals.

That said, if you want the best sexual experiences of your life, LEARN PORTUGUES AND GO TO BRAZIL!

Rabo Verde
09-28-04, 19:30
My favorite streaming Brazilian streaming radio station is:

http://jovempan.uol.com.br/jpamnew/aovivo/

Click on the Winows Media Flag.

They have a lot of talk and news, other stations you end up listening to a lot of cheesy American pop music, not much good for improving Portuguese!

Young & Restless
09-28-04, 19:35
Here's one that I've listened to on occasions:

http://radioclick.globo.com/globobrasil/

Don't know if it's the best one for learning Portuguese (it seems like they try to talk as fast as an auctioneer), but it's mostly talk radio and a little bit of music.

Y & R

Bango Cheito
10-04-04, 19:08
Young and Restless, do not worry too much about pronuonciation. As long as you are in the ballpark you will be understood; you will just be speaking with an accent is all!

Personally for really learning the slang what works for me most of all is going on a Brazilian chat channel and following conversations between people there. That really gives you a sense of how the language 'flows'.

Young & Restless
10-05-04, 19:10
Bango Cheito,

Thanks for your suggestion. Let me know if there is a specific one that you use.

BTW, one of the TV links posted by Chuponalgas on 9-27 was pretty cool. Almost made me feel like I was back at my hotel room in Rio!! But not quite though (wink, wink). I think this was the one that I used:

mms://media.brturbo.com/bandnews_secure.wmv?url=13501440143114

Young & Restless
10-05-04, 19:38
I'm not taking credit for these translations, but I've noticed people in other parts of the Brazil sections have been asking for help with translating the Portuguese words from the escort ads and thought that they may be useful if they were all listed together and available in this section too. Credit for these translations go to Lorenzo, Rio Bob and Fartknocker from 7/18/04 in the "Rio de Janeiro - Escorts" section of the forum (if some of these are not right, please intervene):

Adoro beber leitinho: Loves to swallow!!
Adoro por tras – Loves to take it in the ass.
Alto Nivel – (trans: high level): says that she is a 9 or 10. Will be expensive.
Aparelhos - (trans: equipment/gear) Sex toys…
Casais - (trans: couples) she will do couples.
Cavalheiros - (trans: gentleman): she caters to men.
Completa – (trans: complete): will take it up the ass.
Damas - (trans: ladies) she does women too.
Duplas - (trans: pairs/doubles) she’ll do 2 on 1's with other girls
Executivos - (trans: executives): she is suitable for executives. Further translation... she's high priced.
Falta Magra - she has a voluptuous body
Festinhas - (trans: little parties) she’ll partake in orgies
inversao do aparelho - she is submissive rather than dominant.
Liberal – she is open minded towards trying new/different things in bed
Namoradinha – GFE
Ninfetinha – she’s a little nympho
Oral Inesquecivel – (trans: Unforgettable oral)
Sem Frescura - (trans: without attitude)

I just read this one in the regular forum by Chuponalgas... "inversao de papeis" => "inverted roles". His translation said that "Maybe she puts on a strap-on dildo and cornholes you". I hope everyone is declining this option. Just say no!!

Y & R

July Gan
10-06-04, 11:24
I would only disagree with one translation in your list. Ninfetinha means that she is a small "ninfa" (young) .i.e that she looks like a teenager.

Nympho is actually "ninfomana"

Fartknocker
10-09-04, 23:07
The one I would disagree with is "Adoro por tras." This means "I love it from behind," not necessarily "I love it in the ass."

Young & Restless
10-10-04, 00:28
I see what you mean. I just assumed that they were referring to anal. So if a girl ever says to you "adoro por tras", more than likely she's letting you know that she REALLY likes doggie style, right?

July Gan - that makes since to me. Besides, I think nympho should be implied...

Fartknocker
10-12-04, 00:30
Y&R,

I would always assume if she says "adoro por tras" that she wants it from behind. If she wanted it in the ass, she would probably say, "gosto de tomar na bunda" (I like to take it in the ass) or "gosto de sexo anal" (I like anal sex). If its in the heat of the moment, she might just say "fode minha bunda" (fuck my ass).

Of course she may just grab it and stick it where she wants it. Talking is really overrated sometimes . . .

Young & Restless
10-12-04, 00:39
Fartknocker,

Point well taken... LOL!!

Bubba Boy
10-12-04, 03:43
The subject has been brought up that it is not a good idea to learn Portuguese and Spanish together.

I have been working hard on my Portuguese and am hoping to be approaching an intermediate level in December for my next trip to Rio, which will last 2 months. At that point I want to learn basic spanish for travels to Arg etc after Rio.

Would my Portuguese be advanced enough to learn Spanish in January without confusing the shit out of me.?

Bango Cheito
10-12-04, 06:06
Fartknocker,

I'm pretty positive that in Brazil when you say 'por tras' you're talking about in the back end, not doggy style, even though in English it would translate verbatim as 'from behind'

Y&R,

I usually go on the Brasnet or BrasIRC servers on IRC. I use a program called mIRC to do this (www.mirc.co.uk). This chat has a command line interface though and is maybe not for your average Win user. I dunno where Brazilians hang out on AOL, yahoo chat etc as I avoid those chats like the plague.

FWIW, getting straponed by a girl is at least 100% safe sex. Certainly not my thing but to each his/her own!

Fartknocker
10-12-04, 19:47
Bubba Boy,

Short of actually spending time conversing in Portuguese with Brazilians, you will not be at an "intermediate level" by December. I spent 5 months doing daily lessons before I went to live in Brazil, and I could hardly communicate at all when I arrived.

After about two weeks of listening and trying to speak, I could hold a VERY basic conversation. After two months I was spending entire weekends with my girlfriend and speaking nothing but Portuguese. My comprehension was weak, my was accent horrible, and my grammar sucked, but I could at least talk about more than the weather and what time it was.

So anyway, you will probably pick it up rapidly once you get there, but no amount of studying will get you to an "intermediate level." My advice would be to drill vocabulary as much as possible. If you can go down there with a couple thousand word vocabulary (about what a 4 year old has), then you will have a nice base from which you can start learning.

I wouldn't want to try to study Spanish until I had Portuguese down cold. I do think knowing one hinders as much as helps in learning the other. The problem is that Spanish is sooo close, but not quite! My high school Spanish came back to haunt me in Brazil. I kept saying "estudiar" instead of "estudar" (to study), and "escuela" instead of "escola" (school) and things like that. A lot of Spanish words have an extra vowel that Portuguese doesn't. Pronunciation will drive you nuts, too. Take the word "gente," (people) for example. Its the same word, spelled the same way in both languages. In Spanish, you pronounce it "HEN-tay." In Portuguese, its "JENTCH."

I suspect going from one to the other will be a bit frustrating for you. Hope you enjoy a challenge.

Rabo Verde
10-12-04, 20:26
Ditto what FARTKNOCKER said. I spoke fluent Spanish UNTIL I learned Portuguese. Now I speak Intermediate Spanish and Basic-Intermediate Portuguese. I constantly have to stop myself from speaking Portuguese in Mexico and Argentina and Speaking Spanish in Rio. For example. “Yo estuve aqui en Rio en el año pasado en el verano” = “Eu estive aqui no Rio o ano passado no verao” (I was here in Rio last year in the Summer). Almost impossible to keep separate in my mind.

There are many Brazilian working girls in Buenos Aires, and even THEY end up speaking “Portañol” when they get back to Brazil.

Even within Portuguese and Spanish, there are a number of dialects. Imagine a London cab driver talking to a ghetto kid from Brooklyn. they are both speaking English, but... The difference is even greater between people from different regions of Brazil. Similarly, the Spanish spoken in Argentina or Cuba is FAR different than Mexican Spanish.

Brazilian Portuguese is a very slangy, idiomatic language, with a lot of phrasal verbs and false cognates, regional accents, and local slang. You could spend a lifetime just becoming fluent in Portuguese!

Sperto
10-12-04, 20:51
When I studied Portuguese in Rio my teacher told me the best way to learn the language is to watch TV or get a girlfriend. I´m not a fan of novelas so I chosed the second way (much more fan). The more girlfriends the better portuguese.

Traveling anywhere in Brazil, outside Copacabana, makes it necessary to learn Portuguese. To start, learn something like 50 common phrases. Then you build up your vocabulary and grammar.

Everything becomes much more simple and fun when You can speak Portuguese fluently.

I agree about the difficulty of not mixing Portuguese and Spanish. When I studied Portuguese in Rio I also studied Spanish at the same time. Mainly because of all the nice girls in the Spanish class.

Anyway now I lost all my Spanish.

Brooklyn Bandit
10-12-04, 21:46
I agree with you guys. I was pretty damn good at Spanish until I started to travel to Brasil. Once I began to learn Portuguese, all my spanish was gone.

I am now pretty damn good at Portuguese but I could always learn more. To be honest, I learned by getting a namorada who spoke no english. She would actually laugh at me when I said things wrong which made me even more determined to learn. After she stopped laughing, she would then teach me the right way to say things. It was great. Too bad we broke up.

My advice to those who are trying to learn Portuguese, which is the way I learned, is to learn to conjugate the verbs well. Once you have the conjugation down pat, all you need to do is start to accumulate vocabulary words (which I think is the easy part).

By the way Chuponalgas, I understood everything that London cab driver was saying ;) lol

Bubba Boy
10-12-04, 23:25
Thanks to all in answering my question, seems like it will be difficult to learn spanish without affecting my Porto.

Fartknocker, I should have explained that I already have been travelling to Rio throughout the year (4 times so far= 2 1/2 months) and have a good basic level down. I am just finishing off Pims Vol III as well as listening to Music etc daily. This combined with spending all December, January and part of Feb in Rio should get me towards Intermediate level.

Rabo Verde
10-15-04, 20:19
http://jovempan.uol.com.br/jpamnew/aovivo/

Click on the OUACA OU VIVO button, either Media Player or Real Player, and you can listen to streaming live talk radio from Sao Paulo. Good for tuning your ear.

Bubba Boy
10-24-04, 11:03
A question for a native Portuguese speaker. When is "De" to be used in the structure of a sentence and when is it not?

Hojo
12-20-04, 03:27
Hello,
Anyone have any humerous pick up lines I can use in Rio?

pop till you drop,
hojo

Athos
12-20-04, 06:42
BubbaBoy
I am not a native speaker but the way I understand it, think of using "de" when you would use "of" in English.
A casa da minha amiga

Some verbs like gostar requires the use of "de"
Gosto de voce
Precisar uses de as well with a word but not with a verb
Eu preciso falar com voce
Eu preciso de uma garota

de varies depending on what follows masculine, feminine, plural
de, do, da, dos, das

Sperto
12-23-04, 06:49
BubbaBoy
I am not a native speaker but the way I understand it, think of using "de" when you would use "of" in English.
A casa da minha amiga

Some verbs like gostar requires the use of "de"
Gosto de voce
Precisar uses de as well with a word but not with a verb
Eu preciso falar com voce
Eu preciso de uma garota

de varies depending on what follows masculine, feminine, plural
de, do, da, dos, das

Athos,
A small correction.
About using "de".
Precisar uses "de" with a verb. The same goes for gostar and a bunch of other verbs.
Eu preciso de comer.
Eu gostaria de voltar a casa.
Cheers,

Sperto
12-23-04, 06:56
Hello,
Anyone have any humerous pick up lines I can use in Rio?

pop till you drop,
hojo

Hojo,
Try this one.
Go up to a girl and look at the label in her shirt, and say:
"Opa, feito no céu!" (Wow, made in heaven!)

Or you can try this one.
"Se feiura fosse crime você pegaria pena do morte."

Brazil Specialist
12-23-04, 14:14
Hojo,

Or you can try this one.
"Se feiura fosse crime você pegaria pena do morte."Sperto, vc é brasileiro?? Vc deveria pelo menos contar para o pessoal o que e eles dizem, para entender porque vão receber um tapa na cara.

You should tell people what this means, so they understand why they will get slapped in the face:

"If ugliness were a crime, you would get death penalty"

Brazilians are very creative with pickup lines, but you really need the "jogo de cintura" of a Brazilian to say such things without getting into deep trouble.

What about: "que abundância" to a big titted chick? Be safe, don't say it.

"What a nice dog. What is his phone number" is a bit tamer. "Que cachorrinho lindo. ......... Qual é o seu telefone?? "

I think if you look decent and can arouse her interest, then a simple "Oi, tudo bem" might be a better start. Good pickup lines are not easy to handle for language-impaired people.

Hojo
12-23-04, 20:29
Ok guys,
I think I'll skip the pick up lines until I become fluent in Portuguese.

For know I'll just do what I did last time:
Speak my english and speak it loud.


pop till you drop,
hojo

El Austriaco
12-23-04, 22:13
Seems to me that the rule goes like this:

Precisar + verb. No "de":
Preciso falar com você. I need to talk to you.
Preciso voltar para o meu pais. I need to go back to my country.
Preciso pagar as minhas contas. I need to pay my bills.
Você não precisa fazer isso. You don't need to do that.

Precisar + de + noun. With "de":
Preciso de ajuda. I need help.
Preciso de dois bilhetes para o Réveillon. I need two tickets for the New Year's party.

Of course, in case the noun is used with an article or not, "de + article" is contracted as follows:

de + o = do. Preciso do seu carro.
de + a = da. Preciso da minha carteira.
de + os = dos. Preciso dos meus amigos.
de + as = das. Preciso das minhas crianças.

So basically, I think that Athos was right - without "de" if followed by a verb, with "de" if followed by a noun. At the same time, Brazilians seem rather sloppy about this rule themselves at times. I've definitely heard things like "preciso de falar com vc" or "preciso dinheiro agora mesmo". Not that Brazilians are alone in that. Americans say things like "I shouldn't have went", too, all the time.

Of course, instead of "precisar + verb", you may also use the construction "*** que + verb" - literally, "have to". Like in English.

Tenho que voltar para casa. I have to go home.
Temos que falar sobre isso. We have to talk about this.
Temos que pegar um taxi? Do we have to catch a cab?

Gostar definitely takes "de" all the time - and the resulting construction is very different from Spanish and, actually, more similar to English:

Spanish: Me gustas.
Portuguese: Eu gosto de você.
English: I like you.

Spanish: Me gusta mucho salir a fiestas.
Portuguese: Eu gosto muito de sair para festas.
English: I like to go to parties a lot.

Spanish: Me gustaría conocer Rio de Janeiro una vez en mi vida.
Portuguese: Gostaria de conhecer of Rio de Janeiro uma vez na minha vida.
English: I would like to get to know Rio de Janeiro once in my lifetime.

Spanish: Eso no me gusta.
Portuguese: Não gosto disso.
English: I don't like that.

Spanish: Brasil te gusta?
Portuguese: Você gosta do Brasil?
English: Do you like Brazil?

Everything clear?

El Austriaco

Athos
12-25-04, 06:39
Wow thanks for clarification.
I am pretty sure you are right about precisar followed by verb as I was taking a Portuguese class and both the book and teacher mentioned no 'de' in that case.
Important note, Pimsleur CDs has a few mistakes including using de with precisar followed by verb.
Also I noticed they pronounced depois djepois in CD so I had to be corrected by a carioca as it is pronounced depois.

Sperto
12-25-04, 15:59
The forms
precisar de +infinitivo
gostar de +infinitivo
is correct.
Ex. Eu preciso de ler o jornal.
Eu gosto de dormir.

Anyway either precisar de and de-less precisar forms are both common in spoken Brazilian portuguese. That means that sometimes you can leave out the "de" and it will sound good.
Ex. Eu preciso ler o jornal.
Eu preciso trabalhar.

Sometimes you will need the "de" or it will sound very strange. Compare:
Ex. Ela gosta de beijar.
Ela gosta beijar.

El Austriaco
12-27-04, 03:06
With verb:

Precisa-se trabalhar para viver. One must work to live.
Precisa ser já? Need it be at once?
Você precisa pagar. You must pay/You need to pay.
Preciso ir. I must go.
Ele precisa cortar o cabelo. His hair needs cutting.
Isto precisa ser feito. It wants doing.
Não precisa escrever. Don't trouble to write.

O negócio precisa muita atenção. The business requires great attention.
Precisa-se de um criado. We are in want of an employee.
Ora preciso de descanso. I stand in need of repose.
Precisamos de um empregado. We need an employee.

As you can see, not a single example of "precisar+de+verb". And all but one noun preceded by "de".

Wanna see actual usage? Run a quick Google search for "preciso falar" vs. "preciso de falar" or "preciso ir" vs. "preciso de ir" on Portuguese-language pages: 45,000 vs. approx. 1300, and 50,000 vs. roughly 700. In other words, for every single page where someone uses the construction without "de", there are between 47 and 48 pages where it is used with "de". Sounds pretty conclusive to me...

Source of all the Portuguese examples above: Michaelis Dicionário Ilustrado - Volume II. Português-Inglês. Editorial Melhoramentos. THE authoritative dictionary for Brazilian Portuguese.

Dictionary closed. Case closed.

P.S.: Don't bother to write about the lousy English translations - they aren't mine; they are from the Michaelis, too, actually. Strange, I know.

By the way, since I was curious, I checked usage for "should have gone" vs. "should have went" - which is a very common error in English: 323,000 vs. 17,800 (!!!!) pages that use the incorrect form in English. Nonetheless, almost 18K web hits still don't make it correct.

I won't bother providing a linguistic explanation why these phenomena are occuring (whether in Brazilian Portuguese or in US English) unless somebody really wants to hear it... :)

El Austriaco
12-27-04, 20:26
45,000 vs. approx. 1300, and 50,000 vs. roughly 700. In other words, for every single page where someone uses the construction without "de", there are between 47 and 48 pages where it is used with "de". Of course, this should read: In other words, for every single page where someone uses the construction precisar WITH "de", there are between 47 and 48 pages where it is used WITHOUT "de".

Mea culpa.

Sperto
12-27-04, 20:49
Austriaco,
You have missed the point.
In your examples with precisa+infintivo you can put a "de" and you will have correct portuguese. The same goes for gostar, necessitar, folgar and many more.

As I said before either precisar de and de-less precisar forms are both common in spoken Brazilian portuguese. But of course it depends on your need. Maybe you need to be able to speak and write correct portuguese, or maybe you only need the knowledge to chat with pro´s outside Help.

I don´t judge you for being wrong. I met many brazilians who don´t speak correct portuguese. I have been lucky to learn my portuguese at a brazilian university and not from a diccionario.

Anyway I´m going to Brazil tomorrow and I won´t have more time to chit-chat about "precisar de".

Bobby 1
03-16-05, 03:37
For those looking for PimsleurPortuguese, Go to:Alt.binaries.mp3.spoken-word

Entire 90 lessons are posted there. If you know how to use newsgroups, you are in business.

Fartknocker
03-17-05, 00:25
alt.binaries.world-languages is a much better resource for pirating language software. I haven't seen that much Portuguese stuff go through the group, but I did snag a nice Ultralingua computerized Portuguese dictionary from it.

I've gotten a TON of Spanish software -- Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, etc -- from that group. Russian software is fairly frequent, and Thai can occasionally be found -- both important languages for the dedicated monger.

I'm still looking for Rosetta Stone Portuguese, though. Anyone wanna trade for Spanish? PM me.

Fartknocker
03-17-05, 00:38
I don´t judge you for being wrong. I met many brazilians who don´t speak correct portuguese. I have been lucky to learn my portuguese at a brazilian university and not from a diccionario.

Sperto couldn't be more correct. Many Brazilians -- even educated Brazilians when speaking informally -- speak very poor Portuguese. Some do it because they are just being lazy, but others just aren't very well educated -- particularly the garotas de programa with whom we tend to associate.

I hear Brazilians say things all the time that they themselves will admit are very poor Portuguese. Dropping some of the required prepositions is just one example. A lot of them won't even make nouns and adjectives agree in number/gender like they should. If a waitress were to say "we have clean tables over there" she is as likely to say "mesas limpa" as she is the correct "mesas limpas." Everyone would agree that "mesas limpas" is correct, but they will say it wrong anyway just out of laziness.

So I guess the moral of the story is "don't trust everything that comes out of a Brazilian's mouth to be correct." If you want to sound like an educated, intelligent person, make the effort to learn proper grammar from a reliable source.

Rovnak
03-19-05, 22:40
What is the best way to ask for clarification on whether an "entrada" is a consumação (food/drink minimum) or a pure entrance fee?

For example I understand a club like Bahamas has an 100R "entrada" but it does not "cover" anything. It is just the price of entrance.

Rump Humper
03-20-05, 06:01
I am sorry to admit that I am one of the members who has only been reading and not posting for the last couple of years. Hear is my first attempt at a post and give back to what you guys have given me. Thanks

I have been though Pimsluer I, II, and III. Before my first trip to Brazil I had only been through two-thirds of Pimsluer I which not all that much really. The first few days were a bit rough, but you would be amazed how fast you can pick it up with just bit of studying the language. I had only studied for a month before my first trip and the garotas were highly impressed with my speaking skills with only month of learning and never speaking with another person. A little effort can go a long way.

Here are some of the first phrases that I learned and used in Brazil. Some are for striking deals with garotas and some are just some of the first phases to know to get around. Remember that I dont really know how to spell very well yet. I speak much better than I write. Please keep that in mind. Many words will be spelled as phonetically as possible. I have not learned to read or write in Portuguese.

Quanto questa = How much
Quanto questa por isto/isso = How much for this
Onde fica...? = Where is ...?
Eu quero = I want
Eu guosto = I would like
Garotas = girl/chick
Eu quero completa = I want to *uck your ass
Eo quero boquete sem camisinha = I want bbj
Posso goza na boca? = Can I cum in your mouth?
Posso goza en cara? = Can I cum on your face?
Eo pago depois solmente = I pay afterward only
Cuantos anos voce tem = How old are you?
Voce tem troca = Do you have change?
Voce muita linda = you are beautiful
Brasilados nao pago isso = Brazil men dont pay that much
Eu pago cen reals(he ice) = I will pay 100 reals(first offer)
Esta um poco caro para mi = Its a little expensive for me
Voce um poco loca = you are little crazy (garotas laugh)
Eu nao entendo = I dont understand
Fala devagar, por favor = speak slowly, Please
Obrigado = Thank you
Voce tem uma boa bunda = you have a nice ass
Eu acho = I think
Nos vamos mi hotel agora = lets go to my hotel now
Que es palavra por isso = What is the word for this?
abre as pernas mulher = open your legs woman
Eu nao sei = I dont know
Voce entenge me = do you understand me
Para Quanto tiempo = For how long?
Chupa um poco hapido = Suck a little faster
chupa mi peru agora = suck my dick now
um poco mais = a little bit more
Voce quere um bebida = Do you want a drink?
Nos vamos agora = Lets go now
Como se chama = What is your name?
Onde voce mora = where do you live?
Quero duplas = I want two girls
Eo fui = I went
Poge ajudarme = can you help me
Desculpe me = Sorry
Com licenca = Excuse me
Mi chamo.....= My name is.......
Posso tenho sua numero = Can I have your number?
Onteng = Yesterday
Perto da aqui = close to here
fica longe da aqui = far from here
Agua com gas com lemon = mineral water w/lemon
Euo gosto sua buceta = I like your pussy
Quanto questa para cuartos aqui = How much are rooms here
Quanto questa para saida com garotas = How much to leave with girls
Quanto questa para entrar = How much to enter
Voce fala muito hapido par mi = You speak to fast for me
voce vai me casa amanha = Come to my house tomorrow
Estoy com fomie = I am hungry
Eu pressio = I need
Voce teg un especialadage da casa = Do you have a house specialty.
Eu estou cachoho = I am a dog
Nao bebida para ella = No drinks for her.
mesa por dos = a table for two
Talvese, voce nao teg trabalho anoche = Maybe you wont find work tonight
Siempre Eu vou devagar voce gosta completa = If I go slow you will like anal
Oi, linda = Hello, pretty girl ( literally hello pretty)
Voce ten teimpo agora = Do you have time now?
Voce quere vai comigo = Do you want to go with me
Jogo com sua buceta um poco = play with your pussy a little

There are many many more, but those are some good ones to learn.
Go easy on me you spelling and grammar geeks. For newbie's, learn to count.
It will save you $$$. Especially learn to say 100, 125, 150, 200, & 250.
These are the best incremental numbers for striking deals with garotas
For $R250 she had better be smoking hot. Any higher than that, you need learn how to say get fucked or learn how to speak better because you are getting worked because you can't speak Portuguese.

Libra muito bunda, Rump Humper

Orgasm Donor
06-22-05, 09:30
I have set out to make a list of words for body parts. Some I can find in my dictionary, some I find here, some I find watching Brazil porn with subtitles or figure it out in the context in magazines. But I cant tell if Im using an inappropriate word, (like a non-english speaking friend accidentally called her breasts, "udders" haha!) or a too PC word, (like calling a bundha, "buttocks") or using an absolutely lewd and crude term (like calling my girlfriends pretty little "bucetina=little pus*y", a "c*nt"!)

For example Ive figured the PC way for saying "breast" or "bust" may be "busto" in Portuguese, Im starting to think "seios" is about as R-rated as saying "boobs" or "tits". how does "pietos" rank? or, does "pietos" actually mean "nipples"?

Am I wracking my brain over this too much? or does it mostly make a difference in the tone of your voice? ...or is trying to figure this out just as difficult as explaining to someone all the different meanings of the word "sh*t" or "f*ck"?

Can somebody try and shed a little light on what terms of intimate body parts are considered acceptable and maybe a little flattering, and others that may be a bit too crude?

Just so I dont say the wrong thing when Im "jackhammering my ****meat into her ****hole!" = "Meu amor, você está assim com fome para minha paixão!" haha!

O.D.

Orgasm Donor
06-22-05, 10:03
What is the best way to ask for clarification on whether an "entrada" is a consumação (food/drink minimum) or a pure entrance fee?

For example I understand a club like Bahamas has an 100R "entrada" but it does not "cover" anything. It is just the price of entrance.Thats a tough question. Even here in the USA, you go to some stupid "bikini juice-bar" They'll say to you "$10 cover, 2 drink minimum" so does the cover mean you get 2 drinks free? or you have to buy two watered-down Colas for $5 bones a piece, (dont forget to tip your server!) just to sit your ass down in the club. oh yah, we have no-touch lapdances for $20 for 1 song that they stop in the middle, ("oh! would you like another?") and there is the $100 "Champagne room" for all you VIPs.

I have never been to a boite, I think the general consensus here is to avoid them. Too many stories Ive seen here where people get overcharged, and dont know enough portuguese to argue. It doesnt sound like you do either.

I was in Waikiki, Hawaii. There is a popular club there called Rock-Za. I bought a couple ladies drinks and a few beers for myself. I got hit with the bill. $300 USD! they charged my beers for the same price of the ladies drinks plus tacked on a few extra! I went to straighten out things with the bartender, and two 300# Samoan bouncers were immediately breathing down my neck. I'm thinking if this can happen in the US, where I speak the language, I have no doubt it will happen in Brasil.

O.D.

Connoisseur07
07-01-05, 21:45
Well, well, well.

I wouldn't change a WORD, a single comma, in Fartknocker's comment ...

...if I had to write a similar report ... about Americans... in the US.

It is said, that US Citizens are known for knowing only one language, and most can't even speak (let alone write) that one single tongue !

I have met Norwegian persons who had much better command of English - AND PORTUGUESE - than I do. It is a fact that "norwegian" or any other such "rare" languages will push people into mastering at least another language.

Of course, if you refer to "Tennessian" or some other regional language as a standard, and say that this kind of English is still inteligible, then you should allow for the same "standard" to be applied to the regional variations within Brazilian Portuguese.

The lecture on prepositions and genders was impressive. It reminds me of things I heard when I was in some respectable premises in Atlanta, as "bestest", "It don't matter", and that came from a perfectly WASP person.

Now, here's a word from someone who knows his grounds.

No matter what you do, a Brazilian girl will know you by your accent.

Even us, "locals", are caught in this trap sometimes.

For instance, the regular price for a guy who lives in Curitiba, would be 100R, whereas if someone coming from São Paulo starts the negotiation rounds, then the price will most likely start from 150R.

There are places where the "price" goes up & down according to the "first impression" you impart on the manager or on the girl herself. I think this is what you know as "free market" and stands true wherever you go in the world, exception made for some places where managers try to hold a "fixed rate" - but this is something you will find here in Brazil too.

Most local guys - like me - will be all too happy to give free and safe advice on the "hows and whens" to have a nice time with the local prostitutes, provided that you, who come from abroad, show some respect for the cultural differences.


Sperto couldn't be more correct. Many Brazilians -- even educated Brazilians when speaking informally -- speak very poor Portuguese. Some do it because they are just being lazy, but others just aren't very well educated -- particularly the garotas de programa with whom we tend to associate.

I hear Brazilians say things all the time that they themselves will admit are very poor Portuguese. Dropping some of the required prepositions is just one example. A lot of them won't even make nouns and adjectives agree in number/gender like they should. If a waitress were to say "we have clean tables over there" she is as likely to say "mesas limpa" as she is the correct "mesas limpas." Everyone would agree that "mesas limpas" is correct, but they will say it wrong anyway just out of laziness.

So I guess the moral of the story is "don't trust everything that comes out of a Brazilian's mouth to be correct." If you want to sound like an educated, intelligent person, make the effort to learn proper grammar from a reliable source.

Cash Works
07-03-05, 15:56
Connoiseur & Fartknocker,

You both make very good points, but I have to point out that speaking "incorrectly" isn't limited to Brasil or USA (Tennessian?). I would have to say that you'll find that correct grammar is not in common use anywhere in the world in any language. For a shocking eye-openner, I would suggest you take a trip to the UK and visit somewhere "off the beaten path" not normally frequented by tourists (Hull is an excellent example - the language used by the locals is hardly recognizeable as English).

I learned to speak Portuguese on the street - never had any formal lessons, never really learned to write it, though years ago, I was able to get the general idea when reading the news paper. My tutors were GDP's (long haired dictionaries) and the illiterate fishermen that I worked with. (Portuguese da Rua. Portuguese do Pescador).

After living in Brazil for six months or so I was feeling very confident in my ability to converse in Portuguese - hey, everybody I met with on a regular basis seemed to understand me without any difficulty, so I figured I was pretty close to "fluent". One day, I had lunch with the mother of an old family friend - she spoke no English and is from a very wealthy family (extremely well mannered) - we conversed all through lunch, seemingly without any difficulty. The following day, her son phoned me - he said "My mom told me you had lunch yesterday - she said you speak very bad Portuguese" I was shocked! I thought my ability to speak the language was quite good. Then he clarified "She said you're ability to speak Portuguese is very good, but the language you use is very bad!". So, for the last 20 years I've been thinking about taking some proper lessons. Maybe, one of these days.

CW

Connoisseur07
07-05-05, 20:54
Cashworks had it right !

I was already prepared to defend some of the points, by stating that even all-american reviewers have aired the same ideas and points, there's nothing really new in my comments (as there aren't in Fartknockers').

In any case, this link is worth a visit: http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/04/Floridian/Lyricists_have_tense_.shtml

Let's get back to the nitty gritty, shall we...? LOL

RUMPHUMPER's list of phrases is really useful, but here's how a girl (well, any girl) can dodge some of these approaches.

Eu quero completa = I want to *uck your ass

That's okay. It is known that a girl will promise you backdoor pleasure when dealing with you on the phone.

Now, the intriguing thing is that MANY girls will refuse annal sex on grounds of "your prick being too big".

"Teu pau é muito grande" (actual translation) is the phrase she will use when you ask her to show in practice what she has somehow promised you.

It is a nice thing to hear.

But, it means you have been taken for a lil' ride. The girl's arese is hers, she may let you stick your big or lil' friend in it, she has the call.

If you paid in advance, then you are in trouble. If not, then you can still negotiate.

Eo quero boquete sem camisinha = I want bbj

Again, you can ask that, this is a free world, and some girls may eventually promise you that sort of (BTW risky) sexual practice. My personal opinion, in one word... "don't".

When it gets to real life situation, some of the girls may refuse to do anything without condom, on grounds that given her subjective appraisal of your person, she thought it better to have it wrapped up in a condom.

Or, it may well be that she just said that she would do to better hook you up (after all, this is why they are caller hookers in the first place). Prostitution is not "Illegal", but you can't simply go down to the local Police Station and denounce a girl because she did not want to perform the transaction without a condom. "It is not legal" doesn't mean that there's some local version of Ralph Nader defending the rights of putanheiros (local word for clients).

You have all the right not to pay what was formerly "agreed". That's pretty much all the "right" you have when dealin' with the girls in Brazil. I think this stands true in several countries, exception made, perhaps, for Holland, and some districts in Hamburg?

Since you don't really want problems with the local police (meaning deportation in a rather disgraceful fashion) you may end up having to agree with what the girl allows you to do or perform, it doesn't matter if you UNDERSTAND what she is telling you or not. So, it is useless to try any "language rules" approach on a subject which, at the end of the day, is ruled by the girls.

Now, there is ONE instance where a better command of the local language will give you some advantage over the girls.

There ARE local foruns, where prices, places, girls and the "tricks of the trade" are thoroughly discussed, for the benefit of the "community". The language is Portuguese only, and it takes a lot of slang to understand it, the same kind of slang the girls are used to (and many girls who have access to internet, do frequent such forums).

Trippleecks
07-06-05, 13:28
Come on, we all know NEVER to pay up front. You also know if you are well endowed or not. If she refuses you the back door, then tell her to leave. Don't pay her what you agreed on. Just give her 1/2, because that is what you got, 1/2 of what you wanted.

Exec Talent
07-06-05, 17:00
There REALLY is no reason to pay first. Next thing you know they are going to ask us to pre-pay at the gas pumps. If a woman asks for the money up front, move on, period end of discussion.

As for anal sex, imagine if you will someone raming something hard (I hope it is hard) up your butt. It really helps to know what you are doing and doing it in a way that is pleasurable to the girl, not painful. You might find that the next time the girl sees you she actually asks you to do it.

http://www.sexuality.org/authors/morin/analrule.html

http://www.sexuality.org/l/incoming/aanal.html

Member #4156
07-12-05, 20:37
Does anyone know what "a minha cinturinha é fininha" means?

July Gan
07-13-05, 11:24
Keldeson,

It means I have a narrow waist

Truant
07-28-05, 16:13
When bargaining with a taxista, do you putaneiros ever ask to go to your destination SEM RELOGIO (without meter)??? If so, for example, would you say "Quer ir Help SEM RELOGIO para dez reis?" or would you say "Quer ir Help SEM RELOGIO con dez reis?"... Subtle difference I know but important enough to the taxista that he would give you the gringo price for one or the normal price for the other. CON vs. PARA in other words.

Truant

Orgasm Donor
08-23-05, 06:31
Does anyone know what "a minha cinturinha é fininha" means?It means youre uptight or critical. Contrary to as they say "keep a LOOSE waist". meaning to be cool, legal, hang loose, shake that ass like a samba dancer, relax, have fun. It also means you dont have to speak perfect Portugues, as long as you get your point across.

O.D.

El Austriaco
09-30-05, 20:55
When bargaining with a taxista, do you putaneiros ever ask to go to your destination SEM RELOGIO (without meter)??? If so, for example, would you say "Quer ir Help SEM RELOGIO para dez reis?" or would you say "Quer ir Help SEM RELOGIO con dez reis?"... Subtle difference I know but important enough to the taxista that he would give you the gringo price for one or the normal price for the other. CON vs. PARA in other words.

Truant

I am not sure where exactly you were traveling in Brazil, but since you mention Help, I suppose you refer to Rio. I would NEVER go with a cab driver in Rio without asking to use the meter (taximetro). You can safely bet that if a cabbie suggests a fixed price, it's definitely the gringo ripoff price (whether at the airport or anywhere else). As far as I know, it's illegal not to use the taximeter in Rio de Janeiro, and the cabbies outside of Help are have a notoriously bad reputation for not using the taximetro. I wouldn't say RELOGIO, though:

Usa taximetro? Nao usa taximetro?

And if the cabbie doesn't, just hail another one. Usually, they materialize in seconds. Most of the time, once they see they can't rip you off, the cab drivers that tried to cheat you in the first place even help you find a cab that uses the meter. Unbelievable, but true. Have seen it a hundred times or more.

Once a cabbie uses the meter, the only way to really rip you off is use a higher meter setting (bandeira 2) instead of the lower one (bandeira 1). That's the 1 and 2 settings you see on the meter. Usually, bandeira 2 is only used in the evenings and at night, possibly even on the weekend. The difference is not that great, though.

Don't get into a cab without confirming first that the meter will be used. Once you're in the cab, you're in a much worse bargaining position (especially with limited Portuguese skills).

I don' t really see the point about CON (actually, its COM in Portuguese, CON is Spanish) or PARA in your example. IMHO, they are both wrong. If anything, you would say:

(VC) quer ir para HELP por 10 Reais?
Wanna go to HELP for 10 Reais?

(VC) me pode levar para o aeroporto internacional por 40 Reais?
Can you take me to the international airport for 40 Reais?

So if you wanna say, for 10 Reais = por 10 Reais. Neither para nor com.

Sui Generis
10-07-05, 11:50
Once a cabbie uses the meter, the only way to really rip you off is use a higher meter setting (bandeira 2) instead of the lower one (bandeira 1). That's the 1 and 2 settings you see on the meter. Usually, bandeira 2 is only used in the evenings and at night, possibly even on the weekend. The difference is not that great, though.So if you wanna say, for 10 Reais = por 10 Reais. Neither para nor com.I can confirm this. On my first day in Sampa I realized that some drivers were trying to rip me off using the higher meter setting (2).

On the other hand, I met also very friendly taxi drivers that were also corteous. This event happened to we twice: a cab run slightly over 20R$ (one of 21R$, the other one of 23R$) I had only one 20R$ and some 50R$. The cabbies asked for 20R$ instead of 21R$ or 23R$.

I was a little bit uncomfortable (because i like to tip), but I guess they prefer to loose 1$R or 3R$ than change 50R$.

Just my two cents.

Truant
10-07-05, 17:28
Remember there are taxistas who will take you where you want to go but on a circuitous routing--thereby charging you more than if you went direct. If you ask to go to your destination off the meter at a certain price, AND YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW MUCH IT SHOULD BE BEFOREHAND, then the taxista will get you there quickly and efficiently for the flat fee. Otherwise he COULD take you on a city tour you wanted no part of. There is more than one way to rip you off.

For instance, going to the airport (international) from Ipanema or Copa should be no more than R$30. The cabbie COULD turn on his meter, drive the long way there and show you the meter with R$45 when he gets there. OR you could bargain with him first since you know how much it should be (being a frequent flyer to Rio) and ask for a ride off the clock for R$30. He'll get you there faster than shit as well.

Euro100
10-09-05, 23:31
truant,

i just got a ride for 42r from the international airport to copa. since i know the way, i know that the guy drove a pretty good route. he drove fast, too, as much as 40 above the speed limit. the meter was set on 1, and traffic was comparably light at 4 pm. only one or two little jams.

so prices may have gone up a bit since you got the 30r fare.

and speaking of faster than shit: i once pre-arranged a fare to the airport from downtown sampa to the airport. the fucking lunatic almost killed both of us, going as fast as 150, even in a construction zone with a 40 speed limit. but it's true, i did safe some money this way, and i got there fast.

euro

El Austriaco
10-14-05, 03:38
Remember there are taxistas who will take you where you want to go but on a circuitous routing--thereby charging you more than if you went direct. If you ask to go to your destination off the meter at a certain price, AND YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW MUCH IT SHOULD BE BEFOREHAND, then the taxista will get you there quickly and efficiently for the flat fee. Otherwise he COULD take you on a city tour you wanted no part of. There is more than one way to rip you off.
That's true. Based on my experience, however, any taxi driver that ever suggested a fixed rate was trying to rip me off. One time, went from Urca (Pao de Azucar) to the Copacabana Fort, and the cabbie wanted to charge 15 Reais. I said, no, taximetro, shouldn't be more than ten. And ten it was.

Regarding giving you the roundabout, yeah, that's possible - like anywhere else. Especially if you seem unexperienced, not know your whereabouts, and not speak the language really well. In Rio, however, based on the routes are definitely pretty direct due to the geographic conditions of the city, I don't think it's very common, certainly not more so than other places I know. Getting to and from the AP is pretty straightforward, going to Centro and back from Rio is pretty straightforward, so any attempt a giving you the tour should be relatively obvious. And if a cabbie does it, he might just be unexperienced. Believe it or not, I've had cabbies ask me for directions on how to get somewhere several times. So overall, I still think you're better off with the taximetro.

EA

Macho Dik
11-06-05, 04:45
Remember there are taxistas who will take you where you want to go but on a circuitous routing--thereby charging you more than if you went direct. If you ask to go to your destination off the meter at a certain price, AND YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW MUCH IT SHOULD BE BEFOREHAND, then the taxista will get you there quickly and efficiently for the flat fee. Otherwise he COULD take you on a city tour you wanted no part of. There is more than one way to rip you off.

For instance, going to the airport (international) from Ipanema or Copa should be no more than R$30. The cabbie COULD turn on his meter, drive the long way there and show you the meter with R$45 when he gets there. OR you could bargain with him first since you know how much it should be (being a frequent flyer to Rio) and ask for a ride off the clock for R$30. He'll get you there faster than shit as well.

Dear Traunt,

Please give your best advises to me and also other possible first timer in rio,

1) I am booking at Hotel Marina Palance, is this a girlfreindly hotel? is this alkso near to the action area?

2) How much fare is it from International airport or domestic airport to the hotel? do the taxi use meter for the fare?

3) is it better to look for gals via the street hookers, or via interent. what is the damage rate?

thanks for your kind and supportive information

Bubba Boy
11-06-05, 15:25
From the international the fare now is definitely in the R40 range (on the meter). Truant may have caught a cab at the start of the year when a ride was indeed possible for R30ish. There has been 2 fare increases since there.

A ride from the domestic airport will now run about R25 (on the meter) to Ipanema. Just go outside where the cabs are arriving and grab one of them, ignore the touts.

Nightcat
11-08-05, 21:05
I took cabs from the international airport to Ipanema twice last month, one was R45 and the other was R40 flat rate from the upstairs dropoff point. When I was leaving I took a cab to the airport from Ipanema on the meter and it was R31.50.

Sal Dali
11-09-05, 06:30
Where are the Portuguese phrases????

Samarkand
11-14-05, 16:21
I found 3 years ago in Rio that most understood my Spanish - BUT I had trouble undestanding the Portuguese relpies.

I prefaced anything I said with "Desculapme - no falo portugues pero hablo castillano." It seems more acceptable in Brazil than in Portugal per se - where there is considerable antagonism to this request.

In some ways having a bit of Spanish makes learnin g Portuguese more difficult.

I did not visit any "termas" last time. I picked girls off the street short -time late at night. Seemed a lot cheaper than reports here - I'd like to visit a "terma" but not found an exact definition of what they are! = ? MPs..? OR like Soapy/ iol massage in Thailand?

Sui Generis
11-23-05, 20:29
aranha = pussy, ****
beijar de lingua (beijo molhado) = french kiss
birep001e = a shameless woman
boquete = blowjob
buceta (bucetinha) = pussy
cacete = penis
camisinha = condom
cara = a guy
caralho = penis
cavalgar = when the girl does the cowgirl position
chupar (sem capote/sem camisinha) = bbbj (blowjob without condom)
cintura fina = small waist
comer = (lit. to eat) to f**k
cú = asshole
dar o rabo = (verb) to f**k in the asshole
depilada (buceta) = shaved pussy
dim dim = money
dotado = somebody with a big cock
engolir = to swallow
fenda = pussy
ficar (foder/transar)de quatro = doggie style
finalizar = to come in the mouth
foder = (verb_ to f**k
furar o bolo = to have sex with somebody
gata (gatinha) = gfe
gozar = to come
grana = money
grelo = clitoris
guria = girl, girlfriend
jambrá= to f**k
lamber = (verb ) to lick
lóqui = fool, person easy to fool
mili duque = a long time ago
mina = girl, girlfriend
na lisa = oral sex
não é “h” = it’s the truth!
nadão = beautiful ass
no pelo = sex without condom
otário = person easy to fool
ovos = testicles
pau = penis
pau duro = to have a hard on
peitos = breasts
peitões = big breasts
perereca = pussy
perva = shameless woman
pica = penis
pinto = penis
ppp = (palavra padrão de puta) things a hooker tell you in order to fool you.
q.s.l. = did you understand?
safada = shameless woman
sangue bom = a good person
tesão = sexual desire (when a non-pro say this to you, you’re in business!!!)
torar = to f**k
transar = to f**k
vacilão = fool
xana (xaninha) = pussy
xavasca = pussy
xixa = pussy
xoxota = pussy (very common)

Member #4156
11-23-05, 22:34
Parabeins Sui Generis,

I enjoyed verifying what you've posted. I have a list of things I want to add that I'll have to worry about doing later.

valeu

Sperto
11-24-05, 08:41
My favourite words for pussy:

aranha,
boca-cabeluda,
boca-de-sapo,
boca-sem-dente,
buceta,
bucetinha,
buraco-cabeludo,
coisinha,
gruta-do-amor,
peludinha,
perereca,
periquita,
rosquinha,
túnel-do-amor,
vagina,
xereca,
xoxota.

Member #4156
11-24-05, 15:19
Me deixa em paz ==> “Leave me alone” or in peace

Tá de sacamagem ==> “You’ve gotta be kidding me”

Tá me entendendo ==> “You know what I’m saying?” or “Yahknahmean?”

Vadia ==> “B1tch” or “Pussy”

Viado ==> “Faggot”

*Mó Cavala ==> Really hot chick

Gatinha ==> Cute girl

A Gata ==> Cute girl

**Porra ==> “Oh Fuck!”

Pô ==> Porra for short

Garanhão ==> “Stud”

Galinha ==> Really hot chick opposite of Garanhão

É o meu saco ==>“_______ my ass!” as in four hundred reais my ass "quatrocentos o meu saco"

É bem feito ==>“Serves you right!”

Pode até acontecer... ==> “You could end up…”

Mão Durou ==> a cheap person, doesn't like to spend his/her money

Pissed ==>“Puto”

Ela me deixou puto ==>“She pissed me off”

Te ligo de volta ==>“I’ll call you back”

Fuck off ==>“Sai daqui, porra!” or sai daqui, pô for short

Tenho que mijar
Tenho que dar uma mijada
Tenho que tirar uma água do joelho ==> All are in referrence to Having to take a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)

Tenho que dar uma cagada ==> "I have to take a shit"


*This word is not a compliment to the women. As I am told, this is only a macho thing used amongst the guys when hanging out and they see a beauty walking by and the'll say to each other "Aquela é mó Cavala." I actually tried this in on a garota in Help one time and she smacked my brasileiro friend on the arm for telling me to say that. LOL!

**Although it is used in the middle of a sentence in ingles, this word is to suppose to be used at the end of a phrase and it is understood the same. Por exemplo:
I want to fucking cum now ==> "Quero gozar agora, Porra!"

Sperto
11-24-05, 17:05
My favourite words for ass:

bumbum,
bunda,
cu,
nádegas,
popozão,
rabo.

And some for breasts:

laranjas,
melancias (big ones),
peitos,
seios,
tetas,
travesseiros,
tufas.

Sperto
11-24-05, 18:22
Some more useful words.

afogar o ganso,
comer,
fazer amor,
foder,
rala-rala,
transar,
trepar.

Sui Generis
11-24-05, 18:32
tenho que mijar
tenho que dar uma mijada
tenho que tirar uma água do joelho [/b] ==> all are in referrence to having to take a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)

more simple and more common is: vou fazer xixi (or pipi) = i want to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)!

Sperto
11-24-05, 18:48
more simple and more common is: vou fazer xixi (or pipi) = i want to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)!
fazer xixi/pipi: for women or kids.
mijar: for men.

Sui Generis
11-24-05, 19:05
Thank you for this explication.

I knew that this was for kid (and/or women) but I did'nt know that it was forbidden for men to use this expression.

Learning a foreign language is an ongoing activity and it is always a pleasure to discover that there is always something we don't know!

Sperto
11-26-05, 14:19
Insulting is something that should absolutely be avoided in Brazil, but sometimes it can be necessary. Also it's good to know what people say if they insult you.
Please, be very careful using these phrases. Some of them are VERY strong.

A simple and useful phrase for shoeshiners and beggars that don't accept "Não obrigado" is "Sai daqui desgraçado!" They will definitely go away.

Vai toma no cú seu viado.
Fuck you, faggot.

Vai se danar.
Fuck you.

No teu cú.
Up your ass.

Vai para o inferno.
Go to hell.

Vai pra puta que te pariu.
Go back to the ***** who gave you birth.

Se liga na porra da tua vida caralho.
Mind your own fucking business.

Vai dar o cú.
Go give your ass.

Enfia no cú e roda.
Put it in your ass and keep rolling.

Enfie o dedo no cú e rasgue.
Put your finger into your asshole and rip it off.

Gostou? Não? Então enfia o dedo no cú e gira.
Didn't you like it? Then stick your finger up your ass and spin it.

Comi tua mae.
I fucked your mother.

Sua mãe bate bife com as tetas.
Your mom hit the meat with her tits.

Vá se fuder, peça da puta merda!
Go fuck yourself, you goddamn piece of shit!

Masca merda.
You eat shit.

O cú da sua mãe é tão grande que um trem do metrô poderia passar nele sem problemas.
Your mom's ass is so big that a subway train could pass through it with no problems.

Você é burro de dar dó.
You're so stupid, people pity you.

Do jeito que você é feio, seria melhor barbear a bunda e andar de costas.
You're so ugly you should shave your ass and walk backwards.

Sua mãe tá na zona.
Your mom is in the *****house district.

Vou te estuprar com um abacaxi, sua bicha safada.
I'll fuck your ass with a pineapple, you filthy faggot.

Vou cagar na sua cara.
I'll shit in your face.

Aquela mina é um puta bagulho.
That girl is a fucking ugly.

Vô fuder tua bunda e fazer você beber meu gozo tua puta.
I'll fuck you in the ass, and make you taste my cum, you *****.

Vai peidar na água pra ver se sai bolhinhas.
Go to fart in water and make bubbles.

Sua família é um bando de desgraçado filho da puta.
Your family is motherfucker cursed.

OK, I can go on forever, but I guess these are sufficient. Cheers

Bimmerman
11-28-05, 07:49
Insulting is something that should absolutely be avoided in Brazil, but sometimes it can be necessary. Also it's good to know what people say if they insult you.

Please, be very careful using these phrases. Some of them are VERY strong.

A simple and useful phrase for shoeshiners and beggars that don't accept "Não obrigado" is "Sai daqui desgraçado!" They will definitely go away.

Vai toma no cú seu viado.
Fuck you, faggot.

Vai se danar.
Fuck you.

No teu cú.
Up your ass.

Vai para o inferno.
Go to hell.

Vai pra puta que te pariu.
Go back to the ***** who gave you birth.

Se liga na porra da tua vida caralho.
Mind your own fucking business.

Vai dar o cú.
Go give your ass.

Enfia no cú e roda.
Put it in your ass and keep rolling.

Enfie o dedo no cú e rasgue.
Put your finger into your asshole and rip it off.

Gostou? Não? Então enfia o dedo no cú e gira.
Didn't you like it? Then stick your finger up your ass and spin it.

Comi tua mae.
I fucked your mother.

Sua mãe bate bife com as tetas.
Your mom hit the meat with her tits.

Vá se fuder, peça da puta merda!
Go fuck yourself, you goddamn piece of shit!

Masca merda.
You eat shit.

O cú da sua mãe é tão grande que um trem do metrô poderia passar nele sem problemas.
Your mom's ass is so big that a subway train could pass through it with no problems.

Você é burro de dar dó.
You're so stupid, people pity you.

Do jeito que você é feio, seria melhor barbear a bunda e andar de costas.
You're so ugly you should shave your ass and walk backwards.

Sua mãe tá na zona.
Your mom is in the *****house district.

Vou te estuprar com um abacaxi, sua bicha safada.
I'll fuck your ass with a pineapple, you filthy faggot.

Vou cagar na sua cara.
I'll shit in your face.

Aquela mina é um puta bagulho.
That girl is a fucking ugly.

Vô fuder tua bunda e fazer você beber meu gozo tua puta.
I'll fuck you in the ass, and make you taste my cum, you *****.

Vai peidar na água pra ver se sai bolhinhas.
Go to fart in water and make bubbles.

Sua família é um bando de desgraçado filho da puta.
Your family is motherfucker cursed.

OK, I can go on forever, but I guess these are sufficient. Cheers
Psst--wanna learn to swear in Portuguese - go here: http://www.brazzil.com/blamay98.htm

Xavier
12-05-05, 19:16
Can someone tell me how these kind of shoes are called in Portuguese?

Lover Boy #2
12-06-05, 09:50
Sapatas elevadas

Xavier
12-06-05, 11:43
Thanks Lover Boy #2,

Sapatas elevadas means high heels, right?

And what about the belt going up the calf?

Fats
12-06-05, 21:39
Hello--one of the common phrases for a provided service on the Chantily website is :Faço inversão de papéis ; which translates as "I make inversion of papers" on Babel. Obviously this is some kind of idiosyncrasy in Portuguese. Could someone please say what this actually means? Almost all the ads state this so it can't be too exotic, thanks.

Sui Generis
12-06-05, 21:51
Oï Fats!

Actually it's «I do inversion of ROLES»

Você entendeu agora!

Sui Generis
12-06-05, 22:46
Sutiã = Bra
cueca= boxer shorts (for men)
camisola = nightgown

(Puxa! Sorry boys it's supper time for me. I'll come back tomorrow with more words)

Fats
12-06-05, 23:49
Sui Generis--

Thanks, that could have been a big mistake! Leave the strap-ons at home. My worst mistake ever with a Brazilian website (I was just clicking away not knowing what the words meant) was when I clicked Boneca. Not for the faint of heart.


agora eu compreendo

Elmo
12-07-05, 05:23
Got a short e-mail from a GDP that included a word I cannot find a translation for - socinho - anyone know what this word means? thanks.

Sperto
12-07-05, 06:37
Got a short e-mail from a GDP that included a word I cannot find a translation for - socinho - anyone know what this word means? thanks.
sozinho=alone
só=lonely

Comgo
12-07-05, 06:41
sozinho=lonely

Actually, sozinho means alone not lonely.

Lorenzo
12-07-05, 08:49
'Boneca' means 'doll.' Is there some other meaning that I'm not aware of?

Lorenzo

Sui Generis
12-07-05, 15:58
Boneca! Beware!!!!!!!!!!

Boneca is a word with several meaning: It can mean a doll. It can also mean a very beautiful woman. But habitually (if not exclusively) on sex sites BONECAS = TRANNIES (TRANSEXUALS).

Cachorro
12-07-05, 16:46
Sapatas elevadas
Small detail but important:

Sapatos --> shoes
Sapatas --> lesbians

Lorenzo
12-07-05, 19:05
Sui Generis,

Thanks for the info. This is something I didn't know. Now I'm forewarned.

Lorenzo

Sui Generis
12-07-05, 21:29
Here's more words (that are mostly related to women)

Corset = Espartilhos
Garter belt = Cintos ligas
Silk stocking = meia de sêda
Panties/undies = calcinhas
Skirt = saia
Mini skirt = mini saia
Lipstick= batom

Boots = botas
Handbag = bolsa

I don't know, it may help.

Sui Generis
12-07-05, 22:34
This morning, while I was chatting with my girlfriend in Brazil (São Paulo) she replied «estou indo» to the habitual question «Como vai você?» (How are you?)

This answer baffled me a little bit because that's a strange way (I thought) to answer this question (Habitually she always reply: Bem (good) or mau (bad))
I have to add that I know that she is planning to visit her familiy (in Minas Gerais) for Christmas. So, I interpreted her answer litteraly (estou indo = I am gone). I thought she was already in Minas Gerais. Later in the conversation she said to me that she was in São Paulo. I was perplexed. Maybe the meaning of «estou indo» was eluding me.

When I finished my conversation with her, I called my good Brazilian friend in Montreal in order to ask her what is the meaning of «estou indo». She said to me (in French) «Je suis partie» (I am gone). But when I mentioned to her that my GF in São Paulo replied this after «Como vai você?» she said hesitantly that it means also «I feel so and so».

Because the tone of her voice was hesitant, I would like to know if this is the right interpretation of «estou indo» in this context?

Any experts on the board?

James Howard
12-08-05, 01:10
This is how I interpret it:

When you asked "Como vai voce?" it's basically informally saying "How's it going?"

When she replied "Estou indo", she's saying "it's going".

i.e., "How's it going?" ... "It's going".

The verb "ir" is "vai" in the present, "indo" in the gerund form.

Basically she's saying it's not great, but she's hanging in there.

Gipse
12-08-05, 02:28
Maybe, she was braking up with you, like 'I am gone' (from you).

Lorenzo
12-08-05, 04:00
Sui Generis,

'Estou indo' means 'I am going,' not 'I am gone.' 'Indo' is the present participle of 'ir' and means the same as the '-ing' form in English, indicating present action. 'I am gone' would be 'estou ido,' 'ido' being the past participle of 'ir.'

End of grammar lesson. Now as to what she meant. Since she is planning a trip, she may just have been reaffirming that she is still going on the trip. It also may have been just a casual comment, just as in English when someone asks 'how's it going,' you can reply 'it's going,' which has a semi-humorous connotation. I think her comment may have been the Brazilian equivalent. So I think your friend's reply that it means 'I feel so and so' may be right on the mark. Hope this helps.

Lorenzo

Bubba Boy
12-08-05, 14:09
I receive this message all the time from my "brasilian girlfriend". She will use it the following way.

I will ask where are you? What time are you coming here.? When she is just about to leave her house to come to mine she will say "Estou indo" as in she "is going" or as one would say in English "i am coming".

Exec Talent
12-08-05, 14:56
I have found that my ability to understand Portuguese depends largely on the speaker. I have one friend who I encourage to text message me rather than call me. She sent me a message yesterday with "Estou indo" and I had no idea. Thanks.

Sui Generis
12-08-05, 16:29
Thank you everybody for the answers to my question. It helped me a lot.

I received a very illuminating answer (in my PM. For this reason I won't disclose the name of this hobbyist) and the meaning of estou indo (in this context) is definitely : «I'm hanging on» (which I could translate in French by = je m'accroche or even by «ça va couci-couça».

This answer is similar to Lorenzo and James Howard's answers. Mimicking «Who wants to be a millionaire» I'll accept the answer from the public.

Thanks to eveybody.

Another chat session with her today. This time she replied «tudo indo». I get the sense of these expressions right now.

Sampa Guide
12-08-05, 17:08
I have found that my ability to understand Portuguese depends largely on the speaker. I have one friend who I encourage to text message me rather than call me. She sent me a message yesterday with "Estou indo" and I had no idea. Thanks.Estou indo = I'm on my way

Orgasm Donor
12-08-05, 20:29
"Comer" has two meanings. It means "to eat", and it also means "to have sex".
I made the mistake of saying to a girl what I thought was "You are so cute I could eat you up!", but instead, She was quite insulted for some time giving me a lecture on "respect". I thought it was a cute thing to say, but she was not the type to take her interpretation as a compliment.
OD

Bubba Boy
12-09-05, 22:45
Can some please tell me the correct way to spell "conga" as in the cotton beach type towel one lies on at the beach.?

Sperto
12-09-05, 23:01
Can some please tell me the correct way to spell "conga" as in the cotton beach type towel one lies on at the beach.?
Canga. .

Orgasm Donor
12-28-05, 11:06
What does "beijos negros" mean? literallly it means "kisses blacks", I not thinking they are referring to the literal translation when I look at a escort website... (or maybe it is???) Thanks
OD

Bubba Boy
12-28-05, 13:47
It means she will lick your ass, as in "brown kiss".

El Austriaco
12-28-05, 21:16
Beijo negro = anal rimming.

EA

Asian Piper
02-08-06, 23:50
We certainly learned how to put someone down in portuguese.

How about a long list of sweet nothings to whisper in her ear!

Routard
02-15-06, 14:27
I tried to make a multilingual phrase list for the international mongerer. However, it is not complete without Brazilian Portuguese. During my last trip in Brasil, I managed to learn roughly 20-50 Brazilian words, mixed together with Spanish, enough to monger, but not to pretend translate this list in Portuguese. Can anyone help me, make a cut/paste of the list and complete it with the Portuguese translation?

GB: How much do you want to go to the room?
F: Combien veux tu pour aller à la chambre?
S: Cuanto quieres por ir al cuarto?
D: Wie viel kostet es aufs Zimmer zu gehen?
NL: Hoeveel neem je om naar de kamer te gaan?

GB: Do you want to have sex?
F: Veux-tu faire l’amour?
S: Quieres hacer el amor?
D: Möchtest du sex haben?
NL: Wil je sex hebben?

GB: Do you want to do it?
F: Veux tu le faire?
S: Quieres hacerlo?
D: Sollen wir es tun?
NL: Wil je het doen?

GB: Do you do doggie style?
F: Tu le fait en levrette?
S: Lo haces de perrito?
D: Machst du es in hündchen stellung?
NL: Doe je het op hondje?

GB: Will you suck me?
F: Tu me suces?
S: Me lo chupas?
D: Möchtest du mir ein blasen?
NL: Wil je me pijpen?

GB: Do you offer uncovered blowjobs?
F: Tu suces sans préservatif?
S: Lo chupas sin condon?
D: Bläst du ohne Condom?
NL: Pijp je zonder condoom ?

GB: Can I lick your pussy?
F: Je peux te lêcher la chatte?
S: Te puedo chupar la chocha?
D: Darf ich dich lecken?
NL: Mag ik beffen?

GB: Shall we try sixty-nine?
F: On essaie le soixante neuf?
S: Intentamos los sesenta y nueve?
D: Sollen wir es in neun und sechsiger Stellung probieren?
NL: Zullen we negen en zestig proberen

GB: Do you do anal?
F: Tu le fais par derrière?
S: Lo haces por el culo?
D: Machst du anal?
NL: Doe je anaal?

GB: Can I come on…?
F: Je peux jouir sur…?
S: Me puedo terminar en…?
D: Darf ich auf dein .... spritzen?
NL: Mag ik komen op…?

GB: your breasts.
F: Tes seins
S: tus tetas
D: deine Titten
NL: Je tieten

GB: your face
F: Ton visage
S: tu cara
D: dein Gesicht
NL: je gezicht

GB: your mouth
F: ta bouche
S: tu boca
D: dein ***d
NL: je mond

GB: your buttocks
F: tes fesses
S: tu cula
D: deine Arschbacken
NL: je kont

GB: your back
F: ton dos
S: tu espalda
D: dein Rücken
NL: je rug

GB: How much do you want for the entire night?
F: Combien veux tu pour toute la nuit?
S: Cuanto quieres por toda la noche?
D: Wieviel kostet die ganze Nacht?
NL: Hoeveel kost de hele nacht?

GB: It would be better later
F: Ce serait mieux plus tard
S: Despues etaria mejor
D: Es wäre besser spä***
NL: Het zou straks beter zijn

GB: Thanks, but, I'm a little bit tired.
F: Merci mais, je suis un peu fatigué
S: Gracias, pero, estoy un poco cansado
D: Danke, aber ich bin ein bißchen müde
NL: Bedankt, ik ben moe

GB: I have almost no money
F: Je n’ai pratiquement plus d’argent.
S: Casi no tengo dinero
D: Ich habe kaum Geld dabei.
NL: Ik heb hasst geen geld meer

GB: Hello, what's your name?
F: Salut, comment t'appeles tu?
S: Olah, como te llamas?
D: Hallo, wie ist dein name?
NL: Hallo, hoe heet je?

GB: Do you want a beer?
F: Tu veux une bière?
S: Gustarias una cerveza?
D: Möchtest du ein Bier?
NL: Neem je een bier?

GB: How old are you?
F: Quel âge as tu?
S: Cuanto años tienes?
D: Wie alt bist du?
NL: Hoe oud ben je?

GB: Your eyes drive me crazy.
F: Tes yeux me rendent fous
S: Tus ojos me hacen loco.
D: Deine Augen machen mich verrückt.
NL: Je ogen maken me gek.

GB: You are the most beautiful girl.
F: Tu es la plue jolie.
S: Eres la mas bonita chicas.
D: Du bist die schönste Frau.
NL: Je bent de mooiste vrouw

GB: I like your smile.
F: J’aime ton sourire.
S: Me gusta tu sonrisa.
D: Ich mag dein lächeln.
NL: Ik hou van je glimlach

GB: You have a wonderful body
F: Tu as un beau corp.
S: Tienes un cuerpo bonito.
D: Du hast ein wunderbaren Körper
NL: Je hebt een prachtig lichaam

GB: What pretty hair!
F: Quels beaux cheveux !
S: Que pelo bonita!
D: Was für schöne Haare.
NL: Wat mooie haren

GB: Do you have children?
F: As tu des enfants?
S: Tienes hijos?
D: Hast du Kinder?
NL: Heb je kinderen?

GB: Can I take a shower?
F: Je peux me doucher?
S: Puedo ducharme?
D: Darf ich mal Duschen?
NL: Mag ik een douche nemen?

GB: Let’s take a shower together.
F: Allons nous doucher ensemble.
S: Vamos a la ducha en junto.
D: Ich möchte das du mit mir duschst.
NL: Laten we samen een douche nemen.

Bandy
02-15-06, 20:41
Routard,

I just quickly tried to do the following. My command in Portugese is average. So may be there are mistakes. Conjugations have been done on "formal" form. I am sure there are many ways to say the same thing. And some are more appropriate than others. Some of the phrases I never use in practice. I always find different way of expressing, depending on the girl I am with. Hope this helps.

How much do you want to go to the room? Quanto você quer ir à sala?
Do you want to have sex? Você quer te r o sexo?
Do you want to do it? Você quer fazê-lo?
Do you do doggie style? Você faz o estilo de cachorrinho?
Will you suck me? Você me chupar?
Do you offer uncovered blowjobs? Você oferece o sexo oral descoberto ( chupar sem camisinha)?
Can I lick your pussy? Posso lamber o seu buceta?
Shall we try sixty-nine? Tentaremos sessenta e nove? (literal translation!)
Do you do anal? Você faz anal?
Can I come on…? Posso gozar em …?
your breasts. os seus peitos.
your face. a sua cara.
your mouth. a sua boca.
your buttocks. as suas nádegas (bundas).
your back. as suas costas.
How much do you want for the entire night? Quanto você quer durante a noite inteira?
It would be better later. Seria melhor depois
Thanks, but, I'm a little bit tired. Agradecimentos, mas, estou um bocado cansado.
I have almost no money. Não tenho quase nenhum dinheiro.
Hello, what's your name? Olá, como se chama você?
Do you want a beer? Você quer uma cerveja?
How old are you? Quantos anos você tem?
Your eyes drive me crazy. Os seus olhos deixam-me louco.
You are the most beautiful girl. Você é a menina mais bela.
I like your smile. Eu gosto do seu sorriso.
You have a wonderful body. Você tem um maravilhoso corpo.
What pretty hair! Que bonito cabelo!
Do you have children? Você tem crianças?
Can I take a shower? Posso tomar uma chuva?
Let's take a shower together. Vai tomar uma chuva em conjunto.

Bandy

Routard
02-15-06, 21:16
Thanks a lot Bandy, here is the final result:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=434305&postcount=1334

Figures
04-20-06, 05:48
I'm looking for the easiest way to ask a working girl in Rio if she will allow me to fuck her in the ass. On a recent trip that lasted 10 days not one single garota said yes. Most said something that sounded like muinto grungee even after I made sure the agency only sent someone that allowed greek. I'm returning in August and this time I want to be able to be VERY clear what I want before hand. Can anyone help me with how to sound this out? Thanks!

Spazzio
04-20-06, 21:17
Hallo - It very easy to find out and ask girls about anal sex.

Is many exaple in forum before about hos you do - but you speak

vc gosta completa - you like anal and vaginal sex
Eu gosto sexo bumbum - I like to fuck your ass.
Vc gosta sexo anal - i understand

I never have problems to ask about this - most of the girl do if they like you and not stresso. But you have to find girls some like to give you service and keep away from rip og girls -

Good luck

Sui Generis
04-20-06, 21:25
I'm looking for the easiest way to ask a working girl in Rio if she will allow me to fuck her in the ass. Most said something that sounded like muinto grungee even after I made sure the agency only sent someone that allowed greek.

The easiest way to ask for this is the following: Você dá o rabo?

Or when you plan to go out with a girl ask if the service (atendimento) includes anal sex (completo):
Atendimento completo? means, willy-nilly, do you allow greek?

Muinto grungee means probably «muito grande». It means that your junior is too big!!!!!! In Portuguese they say = dotado. Habitually the girls will specify if they allow anal sex by saying this: sim, mas unicamente se você não é dotado. (Yes, but only if your cock is not too big]

This reply is almost a running gag, because almost all the girls will reply this.

Sperto
04-22-06, 21:38
I'm looking for the easiest way to ask a working girl in Rio if she will allow me to fuck her in the ass.
A sweet way to ask:
"Deixa-me comer esse cuzinho lindo?"

Lorenzo
04-22-06, 21:46
A sweet way to ask:
"Deixa eu comer esse cuzinho lindo?"
Sperto,

You've got it wrong, both grammatically and in choice of words. 'Comer' means 'to eat.' Are you asking if you can eat her 'that pretty little asshole' (esse cuzinho lindo)? Better to say: "Deixe-me entrar esse cuzinho lindo?"

Lorenzo

Sperto
04-22-06, 21:55
Sperto,

You've got it wrong, both grammatically and in choice of words. 'Comer' means 'to eat.' Are you asking if you can eat her 'that pretty little asshole' (esse cuzinho lindo)? Better to say: "Deixe-me entrar esse cuzinho lindo?"

Lorenzo
Lorenzo, I've never eaten any bunda. Bunda bahiana must be delicious.

Yes, comer means to eat. Guess what else comer means?

Tiradentes
04-22-06, 22:37
Originally Posted by Figures:

I'm looking for the easiest way to ask a working girl in Rio if she will allow me to fuck her in the ass

The natives like to say:

" o bunda, esta liberada? "

Member #4156
04-22-06, 23:16
Lorenzo, Sperto is absolutely correct. Comer is another way of saying "To fuck" as well as Foder, Xoxotar, Transar, etc. Just like we have many ways of saying words that have double meanings?

Reading enough Brasilian dialect will get you into the know of the sexual slang.

Urcarioca
04-23-06, 01:19
Thanks a lot Bandy, here is the final result:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=434305&postcount=1334GB: How much do you want to go to the room?
P: Quanto você quer para o quarto?

GB: Do you want to have sex?
P: Você quer fazer amor ou sexo?

GB: Do you do doggie style?
P: Você faz de quatro?

GB: Will you suck me?
P: Você pode chupa-lo?

GB: Do you do anal?
P: Você faz anal / Gosta de tomar no cu?

GB: Can I come on your back…?
P: Na bunda sua?

GB: How much do you want for the entire night?
P: Quanto você quer para a noite inteira?

GB: Let’s take a shower together.
P: Vamos tomar um banho juntos.

Lorenzo
04-23-06, 02:59
Comer is another way of saying "To fuck" as well as Foder, Xoxotar, Transar, etc.
Well, if that's the case, then I stand corrected! I must admit I'm not up on the latest slang. But I was right about the grammar: 'deixe-me,' not 'deixa,' because in this case you must use the subjunctive.

Lorenzo

The Watcher
04-23-06, 04:19
Sperto,

You've got it wrong, both grammatically and in choice of words. 'Comer' means 'to eat.' Are you asking if you can eat her 'that pretty little asshole' (esse cuzinho lindo)? Better to say: "Deixe-me entrar esse cuzinho lindo?"

LorenzoA brasileira once told me that one way to say "I want to fuck you in the ass " is "eu quero comer seu cu". It literally means "I want to eat your ass" but in brasilian slang it means "I want to fuck you in the ass".

Cachorro
04-23-06, 08:11
well, if that's the case, then i stand corrected! i must admit i'm not up on the latest slang. but i was right about the grammar: 'deixe-me,' not 'deixa,' because in this case you must use the subjunctive.

lorenzo
actually, wrong again.

in brazilian portuguese, they are so slack on the imperative rule that both ways are considered correct. deixa or deixe. you will see it either way in the press, colloquial speech, whatever.

and the verb form you are describing is the imperative, not the subjunctive. they are two different verb forms, although they give the same word.

sperto's example was correctly written portuguese, exactly as the language is spoken in brazil.

Sperto
04-23-06, 10:29
Well, if that's the case, then I stand corrected! I must admit I'm not up on the latest slang.
"Latest" slang? Even when Pedro Alvares Cabral landed in Porto Seguro in 1500 he told his buddies he wanted to "comer uma índia". ;)

A very good way of learning Portuguese is listening to Brazilian music.

In 1992 Daniela Mercury had a hit "Você não entende nada".
Read the lyrics and think of the meaning of "eu como Você".

"Quando eu chego em casa nada me consola
Você está sempre aflita
Lágrimas nos olhos de cortar cebola
Você está tão bonita
Você traz a coca-cola, eu tomo
Você bota a mesa
Eu como, eu como, eu como, eu como, eu como
Você
Você não está entendendo nada do que eu digo
Eu quero ir embora
Eu quero dar o fora
E quero que você venha comigo
Todo dia, todo dia
E quero que você venha comigo
Eu me sento, eu fumo, eu como
Eu não aguento
Você está tão curtida
Eu quero tocar fogo nesse apartamento
Você não acredita
Traz meu café com suita, eu tomo
Bota a sobremesa, eu como
Eu como, eu como, eu como, eu como
Você
Tem que saber que eu quero é correr muito
Correr perigo
Eu quero ir embora
Eu quero dar o fora
E quero que você venha comigo
Todo dia, todo dia
Traga a coca-cola quer eu tomo
Eu tomo
Bota a sobremesa, eu como"

Sperto
04-23-06, 10:49
But I was right about the grammar: 'deixe-me,' not 'deixa,' because in this case you must use the subjunctive.
To me it would sound very strange using the imperative form "deixe-me" in a question. I prefer "deixa-me".

On the other hand I would use:
"Deixe-me comer seu cú!"

Exec Talent
04-23-06, 16:11
Sperto, Cachorro, Sui Generis, Urcarioca, Lorenzo,

I am trying to refine my understanding of both written and spoken Portuguese and greatly appreciate you taking the time to discuss some of the more subtle conventions. Please keep it up. Hope we see a lot more posts here, particularly from the native speakers.

Lorenzo
04-23-06, 22:38
Actually, wrong again...And the verb form you are describing is the imperative, not the subjunctive. They are two different verb forms, although they give the same word.
No, I'm not wrong. This is the subjunctive. First of all, the forms for the imperative and (third person singular) present subjunctive for this verb are identical: deixe. The reason this is the subjunctive is because it involves a hypothetical; i.e., you aren't sure whether she will agree or not, therefore the subjunctive is appropriate. You certainly could use the imperative, but only if it is phrased as a statement, not a question. Check any Portuguese grammar book and you'll see that I am right.

Come to think of it, this discussion is all rather silly, because she'll know what you mean regardless of what verb form you use! Now let's get back to mongering.

Lorenzo

Sperto
04-24-06, 09:41
This is the subjunctive. First of all, the forms for the imperative and (third person singular) present subjunctive for this verb are identical: deixe. The reason this is the subjunctive is because it involves a hypothetical; i.e., you aren't sure whether she will agree or not, therefore the subjunctive is appropriate.
You're right, the forms for imperative and present subjunctive are the same in this case, deixe. I almost never use the subjunctive form. I can't see a reason to use the subjunctive form in this question.

Cachorro
04-24-06, 11:56
No, I'm not wrong. This is the subjunctive. First of all, the forms for the imperative and (third person singular) present subjunctive for this verb are identical: deixe. The reason this is the subjunctive is because it involves a hypothetical; i.e., you aren't sure whether she will agree or not, therefore the subjunctive is appropriate. You certainly could use the imperative, but only if it is phrased as a statement, not a question. Check any Portuguese grammar book and you'll see that I am right.

Come to think of it, this discussion is all rather silly, because she'll know what you mean regardless of what verb form you use! Now let's get back to mongering.

Lorenzo
OK, I checked a grammar book. Did you?

Here is a link about the subjunctive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_grammar#Subjunctive_mood). It will tell you that the subjunctive is usually used in the later part of a more complex sentence and following "que". There are exceptions to this, but not the way you are trying to use it.

When you open up a grammar book and look at verbs, you'll notice that the subjunctive and the imperative often come out the same, but not always.

examples
por: "tu ponhas" (subjunctive) vs "poe" (imperative)
dar: "tu des" (subjunctive) vs "da" (imperative)

There are also differences in the imperative of some verbs, depending on the context:
"canta!" vs "nao cantes!"

Ask a native speaker which one is correct:
"des-me este rabinho gostoso", or
"da-me..."

And there is your answer.



The reason this is the subjunctive is because it involves a hypothetical; i.e., you aren't sure whether she will agree or not, therefore the subjunctive is appropriate.
Not a very good example. If I want to tell someone to go to hell, I would say "vai pra merda!". If you are to be believed, I would be equally correct in saying "vas pra merda!".

Once again, go ask a native speaker which one is correct.


The reason this is the subjunctive is because it involves a hypothetical; i.e., you aren't sure whether she will agree or not, therefore the subjunctive is appropriate. You certainly could use the imperative, but only if it is phrased as a statement, not a question.
Wrong again. Have a look at this page (http://www.literatura.pro.br/verbos.htm) and search the word imperativo. Notice what the website says about the imperative: "expressa ordem, conselho, convite ou pedido."

Lorenzo
04-24-06, 20:09
Cachorro,

I not only checked a grammar book, I have taken two courses in Portuguese, beginning and intermediate, taught by a native speaker of Brazilian Portuguese. The subjunctive does not have to be used in a subordinate clause, which is in effect what you are saying. A subjunctive sentence can be just a single word. For example, 'jantemos' could be translated as 'let's have dinner.' 'Comamos' would mean 'let's eat,' or, based on the alternative meaning I learned here, it could also mean 'let's fuck.' Needless to say, this meaning wasn't taught in my course.

The fact that, in some of the examples you cite you use the second person singular form and also use 'tu' indicates that you are using European, not Brazilian Portuguese. Brazilians never use 'tu' or the second person form. They will sometimes use 'te' or 'ti' as the object of a verb or preposition respectively, but never 'tu' except in prayer, just as English prayers use 'thou.' The familiar form of 'you' in Brazil is always 'voce' or 'voces' followed by the third person form of the verb.

Lorenzo

Sperto
04-24-06, 20:57
Brazilians never use 'tu' or the second person form.
Normally not, but there are exceptions. Some regions of the North-East (Bahia and North) they sometimes (very rarely) use "tu".

Sui Generis
04-24-06, 21:04
Even if Portuguese is not my native language (French is), I would like to venture an explanation (tentative as it may seems) on the difference between deixa-me and deixe-me. (Note this distinction can only occurs in the third person, beacuse the imperative is like the subjunctive in the other cases).

As both forms are gramatically sound, I think that the only way to discriminate between deixa and deixe rests on what the former British philosopher Paul Grice (1913-1988) called «conversational implicature».

In a theory of pragmatic meaning it is the situation, or the intent of the speaker, that determines the meaning of a word or the soundness of a gramatical form.

In the case that concerns us, I am enclined to say that «deixa-me» is the most natural way to say it. As it was mentioned earlier by some posters, deixa is the verb deixar in the imperative (deixa, deixe, dexemos, dexai, dexem).

Deixa-me comer seu cu is then a request, or demand = Please, let me f**k your ass

while deixe-me comer seu cu = sounds more like a whish or a desire: I would like to f**k your ass

In other terms, deixa-me is the common form, while deixei-may express a more polite form. In these cases it is the intent of the locutor and the nature of the situation in general that determine the tense of the verb.

This explanation parallels the same difference in Spanish between déjame and déjeme, or between besame and beseme.

Besame mucho, is a good example. Here the verb is in the imperative because it can be interpeted as a request between two persons. On the other hand, the verb beseme indicates a more solemn relationship. For example in Cantares de los Cantares [Canticle of Canticles] we find beseme (subjunctive) because it would be improprer to command God (with a imperative):

Béseme el Señor con el beso de su boca,
porque más valen tus pechos que el vino

Between lovers the imperative is the common grammatical form. By the way it reminds me of a famous love song by Agepê: Deixa eu te amar!

The verb comer in gíria (Brazilian slang) means : Possuir sexualmente (Dicionário Michaelis da Língua portuguesa, 2002)

Possuir (to own) means also = «to have sexual intercourse with»

Here's an example with the verb possuir in the sense of having an intercourse with:

— E aí minha senhora? Como está o desempenho sexual do seu marido? O xarope que eu passei produziu o efeito esperado?

— Sim e não doutor.

— ??!!

— Eu fiz como o senhor mandou. Botei um pouco do xarope no copo de vinho e assim que ele terminou de beber, veio a reação. Ele me tomou nos braços de forma arrebatora, me beijou como jamais fizera antes, tirou a minha blusa e a minha saia, puxou a minha calcinha de tal forma que ela se rasgou e me possuiu ali mesmo em cima da mesa.

— Ótimo! Não era isso que a senhora queria?

— Era, mas sabe como é, né doutor: aquele povo todo nas outras mesas olhando pra gente, isso me deixou um pouco inibida. E o pior é que o maitre veio falar pra gente não voltar mais naquele restaurante.

Sperto
04-24-06, 21:29
Using "deixa":
"Deixa-me comer seu cu?"
The girl will understand that you are asking a question.

Using "deixe":
"Deixe-me comer seu cu?"
She might understand it as an imperative (even though you intended to use the subjunctive form), like you're commanding her:
"Deixe-me comer seu cu!"

In this case you wanted to ask in a sweet way. I wouldn't risk loosing the opportunity of butt-f**king her by using "deixe".

Cachorro
04-25-06, 01:10
the fact that, in some of the examples you cite you use the second person singular form and also use 'tu' indicates that you are using european, not brazilian portuguese. brazilians never use 'tu' or the second person form. they will sometimes use 'te' or 'ti' as the object of a verb or preposition respectively, but never 'tu' except in prayer, just as english prayers use 'thou.' the familiar form of 'you' in brazil is always 'voce' or 'voces' followed by the third person form of the verb.

yes, voce is more common, but you are wrong about tu not being used. it is used in daily speech in the south of brazil.

i used it to illustrate a point -- that you cannot be using the subjunctive in those types of sentences. because when you use it with those particular verbs i picked, it sounds completely wrong.

anyway, you were the one insisting that deixa was not correct (which is a very common imperative form in brazil). you were saying only deixe was correct (which is more classic european portuguese). if i was talking i would have used "deixa eu" or "deixa me" like sperto did, because that is a common form i hear in brazil.

i don't know why you have this idea that the imperative has to be a command. just click that second link in my last post. translated, it's saying that the imperative "expresses an order, advice, an invitation or a request".

when you say "jantemos", that's the imperative.
when you say "quero que jantemos", that's the subjunctive.

you can insist about it all you like. but if you want to convince anyone, find me a link that supports what you're saying.

one more example. if a mother tells a child to hold her hand, she will say "da mao". you will never hear her say "des mao". da is the imperative, des is the subjunctive (of the second-person form "tu" that, according to lorenzo, brazilians never use).

Ee2002
04-25-06, 01:26
For the sake of this forum and the fact that most guys here speak very lttle Port, the present form "deixa" should suffice. The subjectives and imperatives are difficult to grasp, being that it does not exist in English. If you stick to the present form in the below situation you should be fine. Also although its wrong in spoken Port a lot of native speakers put the "me" before the verb in the beginning of the sentence (its supposed to be done only if the verb is not the first word in the sentence).

After learning the other verb tenses (present, past, future, etc), I have been studying the subjectives for a while and still struggle trying to apply it while speaking. For the average guy going to Rio to fuck don't bother getting too into the subjective forms, you will be fine if you stick with the present, future (the ir+verb), past (preterite and imperfect), continuous present (estar+verb=ando, indo, endo) and conditional. Most guys I hear seem to just know the present and use it in all cases, but to make yourself understood better and avoid confusion, I would recommend learning the other tenses I mentioned. Also the "tu" form can be heard once in a while in Rio as someone mentioned below, but more likely to be heard in the northeast.

For those that are into Portuguese books and like the. For dummies series, they are finally going to release a Portuguese for Dummies book next month. Just got an email from Amazon.com.

Houston Player
04-25-06, 02:35
You gentleman are really impressing me with your knowledge of the Portuguese language. However I wonder how many gringos speak Portuguese well enough for someone to be able to tell which form they were using, "deixa me" or "deixe me".

I bet it sounds the same when most gringos say it.

Lorenzo
04-25-06, 04:06
When you say "Jantemos", that's the imperative.
When you say "Quero que jantemos", that's the subjunctive.
The very fact that you would make this statement is proof positive that you don't know what you are talking about and that you exhibit a profound ignorance, not only of Portuguese grammar, but of the principles of grammar in general. Why? Because 'jantemos' is obviously a first person plural form, and the imperative only exists in the second person; the unexpressed subject of any imperative form, in any language, is 'you,' either singular or plural. This is something I learned in the fifth or sixth grade, at the latest. Therefore 'jantemos' can't possible be imperative, because it is a first person form. I reiterate once again that it is a subjunctive form.

As far as Brazilians never using 'tu,' this is a verbatime quote from my teacher at IBEU on Av. NS de Copacabana in Rio: "brasileiros nunca utilizam 'tu,' so em Portugal." Why am I so sure? Because I wrote it down, and I still have my notes. So you can take it up with her. Her name is Claudia, but I can't recall her last name. I'm sure she's still there.

As far as using 'deixa' in the example previously cited, of course you could use it and have your meaning understood, just as in English you could say something like 'if I was you' and have your meaning fully understood. But you will come across as less than fully literate.

Lorenzo

Member #4156
04-25-06, 04:41
This is some interesting stuff.

Sperto
04-25-06, 07:22
Because 'jantemos' is obviously a first person plural form, and the imperative only exists in the second person; the unexpressed subject of any imperative form, in any language, is 'you,' either singular or plural.
The imperative form is used mainly in second person singularis:
"Beija-me!"

The present subjunctive form is to be used in negative sentences:
"Não digas isso!"
(There are exceptions to this in Brazilian Portuguese.)

In first person plural form it's common to use vamos+infinitive:
"Vamos jantar!"


As far as Brazilians never using 'tu,' this is a verbatime quote from my teacher at IBEU on Av. NS de Copacabana in Rio: "brasileiros nunca utilizam 'tu,' so em Portugal." Why am I so sure? Because I wrote it down, and I still have my notes. So you can take it up with her. Her name is Claudia, but I can't recall her last name. I'm sure she's still there.
Claudia is wrong. Cariocas might not use "tu", but the nordestinos use it. That's just a fact.

I still can't see any reason to use neither the imperative form nor the subjunctive form for asking:
"Deixa-me comer esse cuzinho lindo?"

Cachorro
04-25-06, 07:53
The very fact that you would make this statement is proof positive that you don't know what you are talking about and that you exhibit a profound ignorance, not only of Portuguese grammar, but of the principles of grammar in general. Why? Because 'jantemos' is obviously a first person plural form, and the imperative only exists in the second person; the unexpressed subject of any imperative form, in any language, is 'you,' either singular or plural. This is something I learned in the fifth or sixth grade, at the latest. Therefore 'jantemos' can't possible be imperative, because it is a first person form. I reiterate once again that it is a subjunctive form.

Lorenzo, now you're just being silly. You obviously haven't checked this in a book or online. If you did, you would see it straight away:

Link 1 (http://www.deltatranslator.com/delta/ar_imper_mood_aff.htm)
Link 2 (http://www.sonia-portuguese.com/text/verbs.htm#Imperative)
Link 3 (scroll to the bottom) (http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Portuguese/Grammar/Portuguese-Verb-Conjugation-Simple_Tenses.html)

All three of those show you that the imperative DOES exist in various forms, including "vamos", "jantemos" etc.

The second link even tells you the essence of what I've been telling you all this time. It's optional, and both "deixa me" and "deixe me" are the imperative.

Lorenzo, just click the damn links, OK?!

What are you providing to back up what you're saying? Cause everything you have said here is wrong, and these are all basic facts to check online. My links are good sources, all from the very first page of Google results.



As far as Brazilians never using 'tu,' this is a verbatime quote from my teacher at IBEU on Av. NS de Copacabana in Rio: "brasileiros nunca utilizam 'tu,' so em Portugal." Why am I so sure? Because I wrote it down, and I still have my notes. So you can take it up with her. Her name is Claudia, but I can't recall her last name. I'm sure she's still there.

Dude, just google it, OK?

Tu used in the South of Brazil (http://accurapid.com/journal/13port.htm)



As far as using 'deixa' in the example previously cited, of course you could use it and have your meaning understood, just as in English you could say something like 'if I was you' and have your meaning fully understood. But you will come across as less than fully literate.

This is verbatim from my Link 2 (Sonia Portuguese site).


5.7 Imperative

In Brazil, there are two singular forms for expressing the command. The first one (fala) is widely used in the spoken and the second one (fale) in the written language.


Are we done now?

Lorenzo
04-25-06, 17:28
Cachorro,

Okay, you win on 'tu.' My teacher was wrong. I am crestfallen and have lost my f aith in humanity. I guess she should have qualified it and said that 'tu' isn't used in Rio. The article from the Translation Journal was very interesting. It helped me see why public figures and subjects of news stories are always referred to by their first names in Brazilian papers.

That having been said, I am not willing to concede on the imperative, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Yes, I read your links, but I think they are wrong. I am speaking as a student of Chomskyan linguistics, which would dictate that the unexpressed subject of an imperative is 'you'--in any language--and therefore it can't be a first person form. But that opens up a whole new can of worms, so it's probably best not to go there. The most important thing is communication. Peace and felicitations to all!

Lorenzo

Urcarioca
04-25-06, 17:57
Waow, seems that thread about portuguese turns some people really agressive.
As a gringo living in Rio for almost 5 years, i cannot say today i'm really fluent in brazilian portuguese.

This grammar is really tough to learn and to speak correctly, and the conditional or subjunctive is widely used by everyone here.

For example PODER and *** verbs :
If i could = Se (eu) pudesse,
I i could get = Se (eu) tivesse,
these are the correct forms for the past tense.

If i can = Se (eu) puder,
I i get = Se (eu) tiver,
these are the correct forms for the future tense.

Every phrases including the words "que", "tomara" (hopefully), "embora" (though), etc... must be in the subjunctive past, present or future.

The real good deal to learn it, is to buy the Dictionnary "Aurelio".

But does it worth it for mongering? I don't think so, these brazilians garotas are smart enough to understand what you're doing here in Brazil.

Stay cool like brazilians.

Urcarioca.

Cachorro
04-26-06, 01:02
Lorenzo,

Well OK, we will agree to disagree. You continue to believe in whatever you think Chomskyan linguistics is telling you. I will continue to believe in all the Portuguese language materials, and cognitive dissonance.

The grammar in this discussion is not so exciting for me, but I found the discussion interesting from a psychological point of view.

Peace and bunda cor de caramelo,
Cachorro

Sui Generis
04-26-06, 16:24
But does it worth it for mongering? I don't think so, these brazilians garotas are smart enough to understand what you're doing here in Brazil.

Stay cool like brazilians.

Urcarioca.


This is especially true in Rio because the GDP are accostumed to deal with gringos coming from the four corners of the world. I am always amazed to hear the conversation (sometimes finding myself eavesdropping) going on between some (mostly unilingual) gringos and Brazilian GDP. These girls have like a sixth sense enabling them to grasp what you mean (ah...the power of money!)

I remember once that I heard a conversation (or the attempt at one, I should say) between a GDP and an American gringo trying to pick up a «date» for the night at Frank's, in Copacabana.

At his invitation,a GDP sat besides him at his table. Then, the GDP he lusted after, said to him with her brightest smile:

Oi lindo! Tudo bem?

The poor man, unable to understand a damn word, probably misstok the sound «em» in the word «bem» for the sound «ame» in the word «name» because he replied: My name? My name?

I don't know how they managed to understand each other, but finally they did. Thumbs up to Brazilian GDP!

A minimal knowledge of the language is a must and it will improve the quality of your relationship with a GDP. The cariocan GDP has this special skill to understand everything you will say in a faltering Portuguese.

If you travel to other parts of Brazil, the situation could be different. The less the GDP are exposed to gringos, the more, willy-nilly, they will have problems to understand you.

Rump Humper
05-02-06, 04:25
they do use "tu" in the south of brazil. they also use "che" which is another form of "tu". here are a couple of examples. voce is more widely used as "tu" does not flow well in some sentences, and others it flows better than voce. "che" might be spelled differently. they do not teach it in class, or at least i have not heard it. i think it might be slang. from what my brazilian friends tell me its not really proper, but what is proper and what is used in daily speech are two different things in brazil.

tu gosta sua bebida?= do you like your drink
tu gosta meu pau? = do you like my dick (lol)
eu che ligo amanha = i will call you tomorrow
tudo bem comchego = everything good with you
eu fiz isso para che = i did this for you.
quando tu tem tempo por isto = when do you have time for that

the use of "tu' is no big deal. if you come to the south you will hear it, and if you use voce its just as normal.

El Austriaco
05-05-06, 05:37
Let me chip in my two Reais regarding the use of "tu" vs. você and correct a few misconceptions here.

First, I would like to add that while você (commonly abbreviated to VC) is used everwhere in Brazil, "tu" (which is still commonly used as such in Portugal) has been largely replaced by VC in Brazil and is only used mostly in the Brazilian Northeast and some parts of the Brazilian south, possibly reinforced by the proximity to Spanish-speaking countries and its similarity with Spanish "tú". Basically, the same can be said about the plurar forms, i.e. vocês and "vós", with the distinction that "vós" is not used anymore at all and has been fully replaced by vocês.

Formality vs. Informality

As a matter of fact, você is a contraction of "vo(ssa mer)cê" (your mercy), just like the Spanish "usted" is a contraction of "(v)u(e)st(ra merc)ed". In an interesting twist, while Spanish maintains the informal/formal distinction of tu vs. Ud., in Brazilian Portuguese, VC came in competition with "tu" and gradually replaced it in many areas as an informal way of addressing people, also. Still, its origins are clear: that's why você and vocês use the 3. person singular and plural endings for verb forms, respectively - just like Spanish Ud. and Uds. do.

Another example for such a phenomen would be the use of "a gente" instead of "nós" in contemporary Brazilian Portuguese to indicate the first person plural:

Vamos vs. a gente vai.

Same meaning, but different structure ("a gente" requires a 3rd person SINGULAR morphology while, semantically, it denotes a 1st person PLURAL).

So Rump Humper, an example like "Quando tu tem tempo por isto" makes no sense to me. If anything, it would be "Quando tu TENS tempo por isto", because "tu" always requires a 2nd person singular verb form, NEVER a 3rd person conjugation.

Also, I think I now understand what you mean by saying "che", which had me quite puzzled for a while: you mean the actual pronunciation of "te" and "ti" (pronounced the same), which I will address below. But sure, this has nothing to do with Argentine pronunciation or Che Guevara, but rather the particularities of Brazilian Portuguese [ti > tši].

But back to "tu" as opposed to "você". Unlike Spanish, where usted and tú differentiate formality from informality, "tu" and você do not have the same function, whether in Brazil or in Portugual.

Brazil:
Informal: você/tu (as a regional variation)
Very formal: o senhor, a senhora, os senhores, as senhoras

In the vast majority of social settings in Brazil, você is used. In some areas, you might still hear its regional variation tu. In very formal situation, o senhor and its variations are used. In the months that I've spent in Brazil, I have only be addressed by o senhor one or two times max. Whenever somebody says it to me, I guess I must be really getting old and respectable by now :)

In Portugal:

Informal: tu
Formal/very formal: o senhor, a senhora, etc...

The Portuguese are a bit more formal than Brazilians, and o senhor, for example, is used more frequently, no doubt about it. In Portugual, você is hardly ever used unless to address inferiors (domestic help, etc.). Might have to do with the fact that there are a lot of of Brazilian immigrants in Portugal occupying these positions, so they might have reintroduced você back into Portugal, and the Portuguese are using você almost like to make fun of their Brazilian usage. Maybe, maybe not. In any case, in Portugal, the usage of você, initially a highly respectable term reserved for priests (your mercy), has taken a spectacular pragmatic nosedive to become a term of disrespect, actually. This was confirmed by my original Portuguese teacher (from Lisbon) twenty years ago, matches my own impressions at the University of Coimbra, and Danilo Nogueira (a colleague of mine I have personally met) says the same thing in the article to which Cachorro provided the link.

But things get more complicated, because você is not only a personal pronoun, but also an object noun and, because it uses 3rd person singular, it somehow dragged along the possessive pronouns "seu, sua, seus, and suas" to mean "your". I´ll address these issues one by one.

1. Conjugations:

Specifically in the State of Rio de Janeiro, the use of 2nd person singular (tu) is NOT very common. For example:

VC tem tempo? vs. Tu tens tempo?
O que você acha disso? vs. O que tu achas disso?
VC é americano? vs. Tu és americano?

I never have heard any of those second examples of "tu" or 2nd person singular verb forms being used in the State of Rio de Janeiro.

2. Possessive Pronouns:

The shift from "tu" to você created some other problems in Brazilian Portuguese. One noteworthy example would be possessive pronouns. With only "tu" around, things were simple:

Sg. 1st P. Meu, minha, meus, minhas
Sg. 2nd P. Teu, tua, teus, tuas
Sg. 3rd P. Seu, sua, seus, suas

Pl. 1st P. Nosso, nossa, nossos, nossas
Pl. 2nd P. Vosso, vossa, vossos, vossa
Pl. 3rd P. Seus, suas, seus, suas

With "tu" in decline and "vós" on its deathbed, the second person singular and plural forms changed as follows to reflect the 3. person singular form of VC:

Sg. 1st P. Meu, minha, meus, minhas
Sg. 2nd P. (Teu, tua, teus, tuas) seu, sua, seus, suas
Sg. 3rd P. Seu, sua, seus, suas

Pl. 1st P. Nosso, nossa, nossos, nossas
Pl. 2nd P. (Vosso, vossa, vossos, vossa) seus suas seus suas
Pl. 3rd P. Seus, suas, seus, suas

This created the problem that "your", "his", "her" as well as "their" suddently became undistinguishable. To resolve this ambiguity, the following change occurred:

Sg. 1st P. Meu, minha, meus, minhas
Sg. 2nd P. (Teu, tua, teus, tuas) seu sua seus suas
Sg. 3rd P. Dele, dela, deles, delas (sometimes written de ele, de ela, de eles, de elas)

Pl. 1st P. Nosso, nossa, nossos, nossas
Pl. 2nd P. (Vosso, vossa, vossos, vossa) seus suas seus suas
Pl. 3rd P. Deles, delas, dele (sometimes written as de eles, de elas)

This adjustment was necessary since você replaced "tu" in all but a few areas. Since dele, dela, etc. (literally meaning "of him, of her" etc. are no traditional possessive pronouns, but rather work-arounds, they are not placed before the noun they pertain to, but rather behind it:

Isso é o seu copo? Is this your cup?
Não, é o copo dele. No, it is his cup.

Of course, in a conversation where mostly "tu" is used (like in some areas in Brazil), the meaning would be entirely different. Compare this:

Isso é o seu carro? Is this his car? (or her car, when speaking about a woman, or even their car, talking about multiple persons, etc.)
Não, acho que não. Não é teu? No, I don't think so. Isn't it yours?

In Spanish, no such adjustment took place because Ud. stands in formal/informal oppositition with "tú". The problem with "su" or "sus" only exists in Spanish when using the formal "Ud.", because then, "su" or "sus" can mean anything from "your", "his", "her", or "their"... so context is of paramount importance.

While verbal constructions a la "tu és" are very rare by now in most of Brazil, something like "Eu sou toda tua" or "gosto dos teus olhos" are heard more frequently, even if they sound a bit formal, oldfashioned, and stilted by now.

3. Object Pronouns (Dative/Accusative):

Finally, we got object pronouns which still carry remnants of the old 2. person singular, in particular "te" (tonic) and "ti" (atonic).

Tonic: Eu amo VC vs. eu te amo.
Atonic: Penso muito em você vs. Penso muito em ti.

To quote the chorus from Ana Carolina's hit song "E isso aí", currently being played to death in Brazil:

"E eu não sei parar de te olhar
eu não sei parar de te olhar
Não vou parar de olhar
Eu não me canso de olhar
Não sei parar
De te olhar"

Of course, if would have been perfectly acceptable to say "E eu não sei parar de olhar para você", too. This is artistic license at work here.

It is especially this use of object pronous where "te" and "ti" are still occasionally used, if not frequently, sometimes interchangeably with VC. Consider the following example of the beginning of "Fico Assim Sem Você", a song made famous by Adriana Calcanhotto (written by Claudinho e Buchecha) and note the switching back and forth between "te" and "você" (plus the use of "teu", also):

"Avião sem asa
Fogueira sem brasa
Sou eu assim sem você
Futebol sem bola
Piu-piu sem Frajola
Sou eu assim sem você

Porque que é que tem que ser assim?
Se o meu desejo não tem fim
Eu te quero a todo instante
Nem mil auto-falantes
Vão poder falar por mim

Amor sem beijinho
Buchecha sem Claudinho
Sou eu assim sem você
Circo sem palhaço
Namoro sem amaço
Sou eu assim sem você

Tô louca pra te ver chegar
Tô louca pra te *** nas mãos
Deitar no teu abraço
Retomar o pedaço
Que falta no meu coração
(...)

Conclusion:

Considering that você/s is used and understood everywhere and is used in both formal and informal settings, as a non-native speaker of Portuguese, I suggest you stick to using você and its associated forms (seu etc.), but don't be surprised to hear different forms of the 2nd person singular (tu, te, ti, teu, etc.), even if you don't use them yourself.

By now, "tu" and its associated forms have been relegated to regional variations of the ubiquitous você. The fact that vocês has already fully replaced "vós" does not bode well for "tu"... since you have to use vocês already for 2nd person plural, why not use just você for 2nd person singular, too? Makes sense.

Before someone says, "How weird that the formal form took over and replaced the informal one!"... it's not that strange at all, actually. As a matter of fact, it is EXACTLY what happened in English where the plural second person "you", used as a way of expressing deference based on the French model of "vous", replaced the informal "thee" and "thou". In German, for example, this change did not occur, and this distinction (Du/Sie) still exists to this day.

But enough historical linguistics for today...

For a good Brazilian/English comparative grammar, check out http://br.geocities.com/helcio_domingues/index2.html

EA

Rump Humper
05-05-06, 15:46
So Rump Humper, an example like "Quando tu tem tempo por isto" makes no sense to me. If anything, it would be "Quando tu TENS tempo por isto", because "tu" always requires a 2nd person singular verb form, NEVER a 3rd person conjugation.

Like I said in my report. What is proper and what is spoken on the street are not the same thing. I was just giving exaples of what I have heard people say. "Quando tu tem temp" is not something that you hear that much, but wrote it because I have heard it. It is more widely used to use voce in that instance. I would never say "tu" in that sentence. I do use "Eu ti ligo amanha". Its widely used, and much easier to say than; "Eu vou ligar voce amanha".

I spend 5 months a year in Floripa. The interesting thing about that place is all of my Brazilian friends grew up someplace else in Brazil. I hardly know anyone that grew up there. I know Paulistas, Cariocas, gauochans, and many people from Brasilia. So, I have had to learn many differenct accents and slang terms. I had a girlfiend from Gioanna once. It took me a couple of weeks to understand some of the things she would say. For example:

Onde ce vai = (ce=voce) where are you going
Onde ce ta = (ce=voce) (ta=esta) where are you
ta brincando= (ta=esta) are you joking

I have a really good Brazilain friend who spent 6 years living and surfing in California and speaks almost perfect English. His advice to me was to learn what they teach me in class first, and then learn to speak what they do in the street as they are not the same thing. I guess the same as it would be in English. For example, I used to say, "Foi bom falar com voce" to friends. My buddy, the first time he heard this, told me I sounded like a fag saying that. He said I could say it to someone older, like his mother, but never really among friends. He said to just say, "falou". His translation was, "we spoke".

"tu" in the 2nd person singular form is correct, but I have never heard people speak like that. The one thing that I do know that younger Brazilians like to sound cool when they speak. So, the proper is not used as much as slang. I go to class 10 or so hours a week when I am in Brazil. My teacher teaches proper Portuguese, but if it is not used in the street, I disgard it and dont try to remember it. There is to much other shit to attempt to remember.
Do any of you mongers know how to spell slang or "gerria"? That was my best attempt at spelling it.

Entao amigos, Boa sorte com procurando as mulhures para comer.
Quando voces aprenderam Portuguese esta muito mais facil para comer mulhues para gratis. Ainda, Eu gosto pagar para mulhuers, mais Eu gosto mulhuers para gratis tambien. Ate mais, Falou

Lorenzo
05-05-06, 17:55
El Austriaco,

Thanks for a very informative post. In Portugal I have also seen 'vossa excelencia,' which I assume is a super-formal way of saying 'you.' This was a written notice by a hotel welcoming the guest to the room.

Regarding 'che' and Che Guevara: Che was his nickname, since his real first name was Ernesto. I have read that, in Argentina, calling out 'che' to somebody is like 'hey you' or 'hey, buddy' in English, and somehow Guevara acquired this as a nickname. The same source who wrote this said that having Che as a nickname in Argentina would be the equivalent of the nickname Buddy in English. I think it's just as well he was called Che, since 'Buddy Guevara' doesn't quite fit the image of a revolutionary.

Lorenzo

El Austriaco
05-05-06, 22:20
I had a girlfiend from Gioanna once. It took me a couple of weeks to understand some of the things she would say. For example:

Onde ce vai = (ce=voce) where are you going
Onde ce ta = (ce=voce) (ta=esta) where are you
ta brincando= (ta=esta) are you joking

RH, these examples have nothing specifically to do with Goiás. They are contractions that are as common in spoken Portuguese as "don't", "you're", or "he's" in spoken English. You hear them everywhere.

RH, you say that you heard "Tu tem tempo". NO, I don't think so. Maybe it sounded like it to you, and since the "s" in "tens" might be very weak, you might have missed it, in which case it sounds just like "tem". But I am very sure that a Brazilian native speaker would NEVER say "tu tem". This has really nothing to do with slang or not.

Also, not all spoken versions of a language are necessarily grammatically incorrect or slang (spelt "gíria"). But I am not going to go into a linguistics discourse here.

It might not be such a bad idea to remember what the teacher has to say about proper rules, though. Because when it comes to writing Portuguese... if you don't know them then, you're stuck. It's really not any either/or thing. You need to know both.

Finally: para grátis does not exist. It's either grátis OR de graça.

EA

El Austriaco
05-05-06, 23:20
In Portugal I have also seen 'vossa excelencia,' which I assume is a super-formal way of saying 'you.' This was a written notice by a hotel welcoming the guest to the room.

Lorenzo
Vossa Excelência exists, yeah, but I've never heard it used in spoken language. Maybe to address the president or the king; definitely way out of line to refer to a customer, even in writing. But in English we have things like Your Excellency or Honor (in court), too. For forms of address, check out http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001618.html. But once you will be in a situation to correctly use Vossa Excelência, you'll will already speak excellent Portuguese, anyway. Now, if I could get a GDP to address me and my rod with Vosso Safadíssimo and Vosso Duríssimo, I'd spring another 10 Reais for that :)

Regarding our friend Che: I guess he acquired his nickname because he was Argentinian and constantly used to interject "che", as Argentinians commonly do (comparable to the Mexican "guey", buddy). Almost like with Costa-Ricans, who just love to use the diminutive "-ico" rather than "-ito", which is more common in other Spanish-speaking countries, and that's why they are affectively called "Ticos".

EA

Carlos Primeros
05-05-06, 23:26
Vossa Excelencia

You know how formal the Portuguese are - Muri of the Lisbon board would attest to that. Every letter I receive is starting in a similar manner.

Anyhow - I think that this is an elegant and nice manner.

Carlos Primeros

Deposed King of Portugal (in exile)

GabrielSilva
05-05-06, 23:47
Dear members,

I am literally shocked but the inumerous crimes commited to the portuguese language perpetrated by some of the previous lecturers upon such delicate matter!

Well, I do actually take into account that the majority are non portuguese native speakers and therefore they have extenuating circumstances!

I also do take into account that their purpose is of enabling potential foreign visitors to the most economically challenged social areas of Brazil and to help them grasp the ileterate slang and local colloquialisms of its inhabitants who do not know better, unfortunately !

But I would not advise anyone to follow these lectures in that purpose, simply because you will not be understood anywhere else and particularly you will acquire an irreversible bad habit of speaking broken portuguese of extremly low class that you will not be grateful to brag about !

In the other hand it would be a very different situation if you intend to speak a portuguese related language which is common in Cape Verde Islands or even Guine Bissau which is called Creolo whose dialects are mainly accepted as official in the scope of the portuguese speaking countries.

I am truly speaking from the heart without any prejudice against the brazilian people which I praise very much , and I am sure that most brazilians will agree with me in that issue, our common language has syntactic rules which are supposed to be observed in order to perpetuate our cultural heritage .

In the other hand the typical brazilian colloquialisms and colourful expressions due to the imense brazilian cultural patchwork are universally accepted by all portuguese speaking linguists comparatively to the same situation between the United States and Great Britain and respective english speaking countries.

Well I hope to have contributed with something positive for all of you who may be interested to make acquaintance with the portuguese language in future terms .

If any of you need any guidance or help with any language related matter or any translation just shoot!

With greetings from Sweden

Gabriel

Doogie528
05-12-06, 17:28
I love women in high heels and I will be in Rio in June. Do most of the working girls wear sexy heels and how do you say: "Please leave your heels on".

Thanks in Advance for the help.

Sui Generis
05-12-06, 20:35
I love women in high heels and I will be in Rio in June. Do most of the working girls wear sexy heels and how do you say: "Please leave your heels on".

Thanks in Advance for the help.


I'm not sure, but intuitively I would say:

Por favor, fique com salto alto.

Or we could say:

Não tire seu salto alto

Doogie528
05-13-06, 15:09
Thanks for the previous help. How would you say: "May I take pictures" And " Do you do a BBJ to finish". Thanks in Advance

Where would you recommend I go for a quicky. A terma or a place like Help.

Thanks in Advance for any comments.

When I gett back from Rio in June I promise to post lots of great pics.

Tiradentes
05-13-06, 19:21
[QUOTE=Doogie528] How would you say: " Do you do a BBJ to finish". Thanks in Advance

QUOTE]I am sure there are many ways to say that, but my favorite is the following:

"voce toma leitinho na boca?

Which literally translate to : do you take milk in your mouth?

It might not be perfect portuguse, but it is funny and an ice breaker.

El Austriaco
05-13-06, 19:42
Thanks for the previous help. How would you say: "May I take pictures" And " Do you do a BBJ to finish". Thanks in Advance

Where would you recommend I go for a quicky. A terma or a place like Help.

Thanks in Advance for any comments.

When I gett back from Rio in June I promise to post lots of great pics.
"May I take pictures" = "Posso tirar fotos?"

"Do you do a BBJ to finish?" = "Você faz boquete sem condom até eu gozar?"
Of course, you might wanna specify where you wanna finish: in her mouth ("na sua boca"), on her tits ("nos seus peitos"), for example.

Also, I can generally confirm what Sui Generis said about high heels. "Fique com saltos altos", or "Não tire seus saltos altos" are two ways of expressing this. "Pode ficar como os seus saltos altos" would be another possibility.

Wouldn't recommend Help or any of the Zona Sul termas for a quicky (too expensive). Go to Centro. USD 100 vs. US 10.00 sounds like a good argument to me :)

EA

GabrielPontello
05-15-06, 12:15
to make it shorter and simpler, a CIM blowjob is um boquete atè o final

com engolho is swallowing the sperm, sem engolho is just in the mouth

Doogie528
05-15-06, 13:36
Thanks for all the help guys. I can not wait to go to Rio. Where is Centro? What is it like there?

El Austriaco
05-15-06, 15:46
Centro = downtown Rio. A short 15-minute ride from the Siqueira Campos subway station in Copacabana. Check the Rio 2006 Reports section for addresses of cheap places there.

EA

Doogie528
05-15-06, 20:27
How do the girls dress in the Termas? High heels, stockings, or more casually? Can you bring you camera into the Termas Do the girls mind?

One Eyed Man
06-04-06, 00:40
I am currently taking a Portuguese course (Portuguese I), and my professor is from Rio (a Carioca.)

He told us that the "tu" form is primarily used in Portugal, whereas Brazilians mostly use você.

He said, however, that Cariocas do use the "tu" form with very close friends, but they use the incorrect você conjugation. For example, they would say "tu vai," whereas his friends would laugh if he used the correct conjugation, "tu vais."

Bubba Boy
06-04-06, 19:44
I personally found Pimsleur Portuguese to be an excellent language course with the exception of the lack of notes. I found these notes on another website last year and have edited out a few things, added a few more. I hope the are helpful to anybody studing Pimsleur.

The original Authors were Xenono, TightFit and Sabio from CH.

Royalflush
06-05-06, 01:25
BB,

I really appreciate that contrubution. I have the CDs, but it's very helpful to have the text as well.

Bubba Boy
06-05-06, 01:57
Here are the Spanish notes as well. Once you know Porto you can basically just skim through most of the Spanish lessons. It took me a couple of months to finish the Porto, but about 2 weeks to finish all the spanish lessons. They are very similar languages.

The original Authors were Xenono, TightFit and Sabio from CH.

Three I
06-05-06, 02:05
I am currently taking a Portuguese course (Portuguese I), and my professor is from Rio (a Carioca.)

He told us that the "tu" form is primarily used in Portugal, whereas Brazilians mostly use você.

He said, however, that Cariocas do use the "tu" form with very close friends, but they use the incorrect você conjugation. For example, they would say "tu vai," whereas his friends would laugh if he used the correct conjugation, "tu vais."


Your teacher is correct!

Rio Bob
06-05-06, 16:58
I personally found Pimsleur Portuguese to be an excellent language course with the exception of the lack of notes. I found these notes on another website last year and have edited out a few things, added a few more. I hope the are helpful to anybody studing Pimsleur.

Btw, I have the Spanish notes as well if anyone is interested.

Recently while listening to Pimsleur I thought that it would be nice to have the reading material at the end of the lessons. I thought to go google it but never did and now here they are, thanks a lot this is very helpful.

El Greco
06-05-06, 21:01
Thank you very much for both, spanish & portuguese.

Very helpfull.

El Greco

King Of Crunk
06-06-06, 02:21
I got a PM stating that I should give credit to the original authors of the work. To be perfectly honest i can't remember their names. As I stated below they were off another website (CH) i would think that we are all part of a mongering community and the original authors would not have a problem with the sharing of this info for the purpose in assisting fellow mongers in learning a language.Hey bubba boy,

I'm loving your reports man could you give me the link to the Pimsleur I,II,III notes and one more thing do you anything about a terma in Rio called AncoraDoRecreio www.ancoradorecreio.com.br any input is gladly appreciated.

Thanks

Bubba Boy
06-06-06, 14:42
Before I had the notes I used to struggle through the lesson and then search for the new words I heard. It used to take 80 minutes per 30 minute lesson. After I found the notes It cut my time in half and I understood things much better.

I just posted the notes, the orginal Authors deserve the thanks for taking the time and effort to make a contribution.

Holguinho
06-06-06, 22:06
I really won't believe that you all in this forum indent to understand the right portugueses frases ! You wankers sit at home and point about the topics between the girls talking about (you) ! Fuck off you all ! Your're really understand nothing !

Wild Cherokee
06-07-06, 01:11
I'd like to purchase one of these programs (for Portuguese) but I'm not sure which one is most effective/easiest. Any recommendations? Has anyone tried both? Any idea where the least expensive place to purchase them is?

-WC

Ee2002
06-07-06, 21:56
I really won't believe that you all in this forum indent to understand the right portugueses frases ! You wankers sit at home and point about the topics between the girls talking about (you) ! Fuck off you all ! Your're really understand nothing !

Maybe you should worry about learning some English phrases, before you criticize someone elses Portuguese.

Rio Bob
06-07-06, 22:30
I'd like to purchase one of these programs (for Portuguese) but I'm not sure which one is most effective/easiest. Any recommendations? Has anyone tried both? Any idea where the least expensive place to purchase them is?

-WC

Rosetta Stone is PC based, the lessons are interactive and multimedia, it is a quality product, one of the best. The format has to suit you as it is all done on the PC.

Pimsleur on the other hand comes in a CD format, I copied them to my IPOD all 90 lessons. I listen to these lessons anywhere I want: in my car, when I exercise, can be several hours a day and I don't have to be in front of my PC.

So different format for different folks.

Turf Builder
06-08-06, 02:32
Does anyone know what he is talking about?


I really won't believe that you all in this forum indent to understand the right portugueses frases ! You wankers sit at home and point about the topics between the girls talking about (you) ! Fuck off you all ! Your're really understand nothing !

Bubba Boy
06-08-06, 20:37
Does anybody really care?

Leparticular
06-09-06, 11:34
hey bubba boy,

thanks for sharing those notes! those notes are extremely valuable!!

i was constantly doing the online translation thing whenever a new word was introduced, just to see what it looks like. and sometimes, the word given was totally different! i didn't know what to say or think. i'm quite lucky to have a brasilero colleague that i bring all my q's to every day. for instance, i though the "what a shame" was "que tena". that's how it sounded like on the tapes. of coarse he clarified that it was really que pena. small things like that, that one can't hear clearly on audio. also, i didn't know the difference between ha and a before you posted that!!! they sound identical! and i'm done the first two pimsleurs, i and ii. just iii to go.

i actually am kind of glad, i didn't see the written notes till now. i could just imagine myself in the first course glancing over once in a while, it would've been totally confusing. all the "wrong ideas" might have crept in the pronounciation of words and for that alone, i'm glad i didn't stumble upon this list then. i think i woulda downloaded it and peeked at it everyonce in a while which is the opposite of the pimsleur "philosophy" to me anyway. i think they teach you by sound 1st, then drop in a few visuals here and there. though, like i said before those notes were amazing to glance over and see all these phrases we've been saying all along. it was like a eureka for me!


i do recommend pims to anyone who wants to get the jist of the language before going. i'm very comforatable, dropping a few lines here and there to shock my brasilero friend. i ain't writing portuguese books anytime soon though!

i didn't do rosetta, but i heard that it's all visual connections, etc. i'd rather hear than see (language wise). but i'd love to do her coarse as well afterwards and judge for myself. as for right now, i'm really enjoying pims.

le p

Leparticular
06-09-06, 11:45
I'd like to purchase one of these programs (for Portuguese) but I'm not sure which one is most effective/easiest. Any recommendations? Has anyone tried both? Any idea where the least expensive place to purchase them is?

-WC

I'm sure both do a good job since they're both well talked about. I've tried Pimsleur and really love it. Haven't tried Rosetta though.

I don't think you'll find anyone that did both completely. Because they are parallel. So whom every takes one isn't likely to take the other in the same depth as the first.

Think about it this way. If you think about a particular language's knowledge as going from 0-100. Both programs are designed to bring you from 0-10. So whomever did the Pimsleur first would know enough Portuguese by then to NOT enjoy a full coarse starting at 0 again. It'd be overkill right?

Same thing for those that did the Roesatta first.

I think you just have to read about them and chose one for yourself.

As far as where to get them. Well, the internet is vast! Can't say more. PM me if you need more.

Le P

Wild Cherokee
06-09-06, 16:37
Thank you very much for the advice gentlemen. As of now, I am leaning towards Rosetta Stone as it seems to be less expensive. I most likely will make my purchasing decision sometime next week after a little more research.

I'll be back in Rio during September. I'd like to advance beyond the Sporglish that I used during my 1st trip.

SP=Limited Spanish
OR=Limited Portuguese
GLISH=Fluent English

Somehow my buddies and I were able to communicate with everyone about everything using Sporglish. However, I feel that speaking better Portuguese (which I define as basic/elementary) will make subsequent trips even better.

-WC

Bubba Boy
06-09-06, 18:06
You used to see the complete set of Level I-III for sale in MP3 (genuine) format on Ebay for about $200 (total for the set), I don't see it anymore, hence it may have been discontinued or it may have been a little dodgy. They still show up on google.

You can pick up the whole set of CD's on ebay now for about $480. Make sure you shop around, nobody pays the full Recommended Retail of $300 per course. I think this makes it cheaper than the Rosetta stone course. For the record I have never heard anyone say Pimsleur was a bad option, heard 2 people that did not like Rosetta. I personally would go with Pimsleur.

You can of course buy dodgy copies in Rio for next to nothing. Or download dodgy copies from P2P sites like bittorent, not that one would condone such things, but these are all options one may consider.

Rio Bob
06-09-06, 18:36
I don't think you'll find anyone that did both completely. Because they are parallel. So whom every takes one isn't likely to take the other in the same depth as the first.

Think about it this way. If you think about a particular language's knowledge as going from 0-100. Both programs are designed to bring you from 0-10. So whomever did the Pimsleur first would know enough Portuguese by then to NOT enjoy a full coarse starting at 0 again. It'd be overkill right?

Same thing for those that did the Roesatta first.
Le P

I have both Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur and they are not the same, different approach to teaching and different words, you most certainly can do both and benefit from it. Like I said I prefer Pimsleur because it is not PC based and you don't need a book either, you just repeat after the speaker, very easy and very effective, you can play it over and over again which is how I learn by hearing it over and over and repeating it.

Actually I’m glad this subject came up because I am going to do other lessons now that I haven't looked at in years to fill in the gaps and get a different perspective. Years ago the first lessons I bought were put out by Barron’s which has a lesson set designed for the US government Foreign service institute Diplomatic personnel, 12 tapes 90 min each plus a book, it is what got me started and it was inexpensive retail $79 but I think Amazon.com might have it cheaper, I learned words from this I never heard on Pimsleur.

Next a high school in my area started a class by a Brazilian woman, I also bought a little book and some tapes by Lonely Planet. I tried to get some private lessons with her at her house as she was a nice blond from Porto Allegre but I think she thought I was more interested in the private part than the lessons, I never got there unfortunately but I got to speak and practice in class, words I never heard on Pimsleur.

Then I went to Berlitz and got hooked up in a group class, again bought their book and tapes also, completely different perspective than the other lessons and learnt new and different words, the group was fun but didn't last long, more people go for Spanish than Portuguese at least then they did, a couple of years ago. The group broke up then I took private lessons there, you get personal attention and you speak and practice more, you can learn faster but pay more. The teacher was great but unfortunately he was a man and I was looking to mix some fun and learning so I moved on.

I went to another language school called Inlingua, this time there was a lovely Carioca who was the teacher but unfortunately married but she teased me enough and was great fun. She told me she usually teaches Portuguese to business men who need to learn the language for business in Sao Paulo but she has never taught someone who wanted to learn Portuguese for my purposes. I didn't tell her what my purposes were but she figured it out I guess after she got to know me. Again I bought their book and tapes, different words I learned and different stories than everything else. Every time you do a different lesson set it fills in the gaps that others lack. I eventually left the school and a friend introduced me to both Pimsleur and The Rosetta Stone, I really only concentrate on Pimsleur and it is good because the repetition is a good way to play it over and over, I have probably listened to all 90 lessons at least 5 times, I listen to at least 1 or 2 lessons a day.

The other thing I do is make friends with all the Brazilians I can here in the North East US and there are some here. At least once a day I have a brief conversation with a Brazilian and it is good to listen to them using words you may know but it is good to listen how they use them.

Last night I went to a happy hour and there were employees from IBM there from Brazil, I spoke to them about 2 hours, great practice.

Turf Builder
06-09-06, 19:04
Good point.

Yes, thanks for posting the Pimsleur notes. I have the CDs.


Does anybody really care?

Truant
06-09-06, 20:13
There is a gringo outside Meia Pataca most days selling the complete Pimsler and Rosetta Stone courses along with extra shit like translation software and games and curiosities and alphabet differences-all for US$100. Its about 10 CD's. He recruits some garotas to help him who get R$10 for each sale! His website is: http://www.geocities.com/learnportuguese2003/

Truant

Bubba Boy
06-09-06, 23:46
at that price he is well and truly taking the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140). Costs him $3 to duplicate the whole set.

The Corn Hole
06-28-06, 22:18
Thought I'd chime in a little on these portuguese audio/visual courses. I have both Pimsleur level 1 and 2 (60 cds) and bought Rossetta stone level 1. I must confess that for a novice speaker I would recommend the Pimsleur course before Rossetta. Why? Because the pimsleur way is much easier to memorize than the Rossetta method. At least it was for me. Pimsleur is constantly repeating stuff you heard from previous lessons to make sure you don't forget it. I found it easy to commit the content to memory. The Rossetta stuff I kept forgetting. The key is memorization and that is why I vote for pimsleur. They have an A+ method they use. I'm about half way through the second course now (finally!) and got most of it down cold. It took me a while though. It's not something you can learn in only a few months time IMO.

Giggity
06-29-06, 03:51
Thought I'd chime in a little on these portuguese audio/visual courses. I have both Pimsleur level 1 and 2 (60 cds) and bought Rossetta stone level 1. I must confess that for a novice speaker I would recommend the Pimsleur course before Rossetta. Why? Because the pimsleur way is much easier to memorize than the Rossetta method. At least it was for me. Pimsleur is constantly repeating stuff you heard from previous lessons to make sure you don't forget it. I found it easy to commit the content to memory. The Rossetta stuff I kept forgetting. The key is memorization and that is why I vote for pimsleur. They have an A+ method they use. I'm about half way through the second course now (finally! ) and got most of it down cold. It took me a while though. It's not something you can learn in only a few months time IMO. I've been doing pretty well remembering the Rosetta Stone material. I think the trick is to continue a particular lesson until you get 95+ percent on all of its tests. That means *all* the "Listening & Reading" tests, "Listening", "Reading", and "Writing". Also, make sure you can do the "Speaking" section well enough to get it into the green (good/best accent score) several times in a row. Then go on to the next lesson. All those sections are there for a reason!

But, I'll probably pick up Pimsleur for good measure =].

The Corn Hole
06-30-06, 18:35
Well, I will admit I didn't put the same amount of time into Rossetta as I did with Pimsleur so maybe you have something there. I played, replayed and overplayed the shit out of it so maybe that's why it worked out so well for me. But I found Pimsleur to be less complex but still HIGHLY effective. I got the exact pronuciation down from Pimsleur. Don't ask me why it works so well it just does. I've heard the same from others. I would suggest any novice speaker to start with the first 30 lessons of Pimsleur course as your base and then maybe go on to Rossetta #1. Pimsleur is cheaper also.

One thing Rossetta has Pimsleur beat with hands down is the reading part. Portuguese sounds very different from the way it's written out and with Pimsleur you get audio only. In that regard it's more of a complete course. That's why i think getting a portuguese to english translation book won't do jack for anybody.

Bubba Boy
06-30-06, 23:21
One thing Rossetta has Pimsleur beat with hands down is the reading part. Portuguese sounds very different from the way it's written out and with Pimsleur you get audio only. In that regard it's more of a complete course. That's why i think getting a portuguese to english translation book won't do jack for anybody.

Thats exactly why I posted the notes to Pimsleur below. Don't know why Pimsleur don't do this........

RexG
08-07-06, 22:42
I am wondering how to pronounce the name "Angela" in (Brazilian) Portuguese. Any ideas, in the form of phonetic spelling, would be appreciated.

Rex

El Austriaco
08-07-06, 23:26
I am wondering how to pronounce the name "Angela" in (Brazilian) Portuguese. Any ideas, in the form of phonetic spelling, would be appreciated.

Rex
Angela (alternatively written as Ângela),comes with the variations Angélica/Angelica/Angelika or Angelina. The only part that is somewhat tricky to pronounce is the "g", which is pronounced like "s" in "treasure" (almost like in English, but without the preceding "d"). It is stressed on the first syllable like in English, i.e. "AN-ge-la". Also, please note that all the vowels here (A and E) are pronounced very clearly in Portuguese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language

Bubba Boy
09-04-06, 14:19
Can anybody recommend a decent portuguese study school at a fair price? I have looked at a heap of schools on the net and they seem to be more expensive than studying the same thing in a western country or hiring a private 1 on 1 tutor in Rio. Most average US$350 per week for 20 hours of study in a group. I know I can get the same thing in Spain for $150 per week. A private tutor who will come to your hotel or apartment in Rio is about USD$12 per hour. Hence even this is cheaper. The big schools in Rio seem to be rips.

Anybody know of a school for $150 ish a week? A fair price, I hate getting ripped in Latin America.

Sperto
09-04-06, 16:04
Can anybody recommend a decent portuguese study school at a fair price? I have looked at a heap of schools on the net and they seem to be more expensive than studying the same thing in a western country or hiring a private 1 on 1 tutor in Rio. Most average US$350 per week for 20 hours of study in a group. I know I can get the same thing in Spain for $150 per week. A private tutor who will come to your hotel or apartment in Rio is about USD$12 per hour. Hence even this is cheaper. The big schools in Rio seem to be rips.

Anybody know of a school for $150 ish a week? A fair price, I hate getting ripped in Latin America.
PUC, Pontifícia Universidade Católica, in Gávea. If you can spare 3-4 months they have excellent courses in Português para Estrangeiros.

Lorenzo
09-04-06, 18:16
Bubba Boy,

Check out IBEU (Instituto Brasil-Estados Unidos): http://www.ibeu.com.br/manager.aspx?ID_PAGINA=32&ID_LAYOUT=32&ID_MENU=25. This is primarily a school for teaching English to Brazilians, but they do have a three-tiered (basic, intermediate, advanced) course in Portuguese for foreigners. The classes meet for 2 hours a day, Monday-Thursday, for four weeks, for each level. A placement test is required. I took the intermediate level in 2004 but never got around to the advanced. The cost at that time was R850 for the 4 week course, which is probably the best deal you're going to find. Anyone experienced Brazil monger could probably test into the intermediate level, perhaps even the advanced. The only drawback is that the classes are all at either 8 or 10 AM, which is early for most mongers.

Lorenzo

El Austriaco
09-05-06, 00:22
If you don´t mind learning Brazilian Portuguese in Salvador da Bahia, check out Diálogo at http://www.dialogo-brazilstudy.com/eng. I did their 4-week program back in 2002 (in June/July), and while I initially signed up for an intermediate course (4 hours per day), after the initial assessment test, they figured that I was way too advanced for anyone else and decided to give me three hours of private tutoring per day instead. The course was excellent, though I missed a lot of classes (yeah, like I am gonna get up to be at school at 8 after a night of whoring around...) So in between spending time on the beach and shooting pictures in the late afternoon, going out at night, watching soccer games in the middle of the night and whoring until dawn, I was seriously scratching my head as to when I was supposed to sleep.. and that´s where my attendance suffered. Still, my Portuguese improved greatly during this time... less so because of the classroom experience, and more so because of all the "hands-on" learning I did in the street (to say nothing of the need to defend myself linguistically against jealous chicks... survival Portuguese, I call it). Still, I can recommend them, they seemed very nice and professional.

All the pertinent info (including prices) is on the website. Also, they offer guesthouse, apartment, and homestay accommodations, at varying rates, of course. Just to give you an idea, the price for 20 lessons per week in a group of no more than 9 students is USD 780,00 for 4 weeks (USD 180.00 per additional week). A bit more than you specified, but within the range, I think.

Hope this helps!

EA

Bubba Boy
09-05-06, 01:53
Thank you all for your replies, 3 of the most respected members on the forum none the less. All good ideas. I am leaning towards a 3 month course of 4 hours a day, basically to iron out my mistakes and get me fluent so I can be done with the whole studying here and there caper.

El Austriaco, I just came back from salvador, I thought it was kind of limited as far as hobbying goes, maybe I am just spoilt from Rio's finest. I am missing something?

El Austriaco
09-05-06, 02:26
El Austriaco, I just came back from salvador, I thought it was kind of limited as far as hobbying goes, maybe I am just spoilt from Rio's finest. I am missing something?
No, you´re not missing anything. Salvador certainly is not the point-and-click, around-the-clock mongering experience Rio is ... which other city is, in Brazil or otherwise? Sadly, the termas concept never really seems to have taken off in Salvador. So compared to Rio, Salvador (and ANY other place I have been to on this planet) seems to be seriously limited, yes.

Of the places I know, Salvador offers a couple of joints similar to MP/Balcony in Rio, which can be found in Barra and in Pelourinho. Salvador has Casquinha do Siri, which can be roughly (and very generously) compared to Help in Rio, though CdS has a fair number of non-pros and non-mongers, too. Other mongers have reported on a number of different run-of-the-mill brothels and boites here. Overall, nothing to rival Rio, mongering-wise. Not even in the same galaxy.

If mongering is not a top priority (I know, I am going on a stretch here :)), I think Salvador merits consideration for a language course for a number of reasons:

1. Safety. Personally, I´ve always felt pretty safe there, with the usual safety precautions, of course. Unfortunately, Rio seems to have gotten worse lately.
2. Cost of Living. Way cheaper than Rio.
3. Culture. Not to take anything away from Rio, culture-wise, of course not, but Salvador offers a mindblowing overview of the African roots of Brazil. When I ventured out into the countryside, I actually felt like I was in Africa. Went to Candomblé ceremonies at a private terreiro, which was pretty eery, to say the least (in Rio, this Afro-Brazilian cult is generally referred to as Macumba). The music scene was awesome, absolutely stunning (e.g. the Olodum theater, drummer groups in the street at all times, lots of pagode, axé, frevo, forró, etc.). Lots of arts, handicraft, etc. A very down-to-earth, exotic experience.
4. Way less tourism. In a way, Salvador seems to be more "typically Brazilian" to me than Rio, and definitely much more so than Copacabana. And since there are simply less opportunities to speak English, this might be beneficial for your learning experience (the famous "total immersion" concept of language learning, or as I call it: "swim-or-die").
5. Size of the city. It is easy to get around, much easier than Rio. I lived in Barra (just around the block from the language school), when I was there, and I would constantly take the bus to go to Pelourinho. I wouldn´t worry about taking buses here, while I can´t exactly recommend the same in Rio.
6. Beaches. While the beaches lack the urban backdrop of Rio, they are actually better for swimming.
7. Non-Pros/Cost of P4P: since there are less tourists, there are less HC pros specializing in overcharging hapless tourists. When I was there, in 2002, not a single pro ever asked for more than R$ 100.00 for TLN (at the time, the R$ was roughly 3.00 to 3.20). Within a few days, I had a (pro/semipro) GF who asked for nothing more than a bit of financial help once in a while. Compare that to the Copa sharks asking for R$ 300.00 and more, and you will see that Salvador is much more in line with general Brazilian rates. Girls are mostly on the (very) dark side of the spectrum, though there are plenty of mulatas, too, and as a matter of fact, I even ran into a blond GDP from Curitiba there... you might just have to look around a bit more. This would be a problem if you just spend a few days there... it won´t be a problem if you spend weeks or months.
8. Weekend excursions are easy to deserted beaches, Chapada Diamantinha, Ilheus, Morro de São Paulo, etc.

When I looked into taking a language course in Brazil, my first choice was Rio, too, but the rates seriously put me off, as well, so that´s why I made it Salvador (after considering a program in Maceió, Alagoas, too). My homestay with a Brazilian family was a great cultural experience, also. As far as I can see from the Diálogo website, they also offer a combination of language courses with cooking classes, music, dance, even percussion... very interesting, and at very reasonable rates.

EA

Mr Enternational
09-05-06, 05:10
Can anybody recommend a decent portuguese study school at a fair price? I have looked at a heap of schools on the net and they seem to be more expensive than studying the same thing in a western country or hiring a private 1 on 1 tutor in Rio. Most average US$350 per week for 20 hours of study in a group. I know I can get the same thing in Spain for $150 per week. A private tutor who will come to your hotel or apartment in Rio is about USD$12 per hour. Hence even this is cheaper. The big schools in Rio seem to be rips.

Anybody know of a school for $150 ish a week? A fair price, I hate getting ripped in Latin America.I found this post on another site that I'm a member of. I do not know anything about it but I guess it won't hurt to call or email:

Portuguese Classes in Rio

Qualified and experienced teacher available to give private or group classes at your home or office. Contact Mr. Souza by e-mail or telephone: (21) 2285-7750 / (21) 9641-0045. souzaluizc@uol.com.br

Sperto
09-05-06, 08:02
Thank you all for your replies, 3 of the most respected members on the forum none the less. All good ideas. I am leaning towards a 3 month course of 4 hours a day, basically to iron out my mistakes and get me fluent so I can be done with the whole studying here and there caper.

El Austriaco, I just came back from salvador, I thought it was kind of limited as far as hobbying goes, maybe I am just spoilt from Rio's finest. I am missing something?
A 3 months course of 4 hours a day, seems very intense. It's important to have time to practise what you learn in school. I think 4 hours 3 times a week would be just fine for a 3 months course. Then you'll have time to study for yourself and practise your Portuguese on the street.

At PUC all teaching was made in Portuguese, never using English for explanations. It might seem strange, but it worked very well.

An advantage with PUC is that you'll study at a University filled with hot girls.

Another option should be choosing a city where you would have less contact with tourism. For example, pleasant cities like São Luís, Manaus or Salvador (as EA recommended). Cities that has quite a lot to offer in terms of culture, night-life and girls.

My Portuguese teacher always said that the best way to learn a language was getting a girlfriend. I improved her philosophy, get several girlfriends and learn Portuguese even faster.

Concerning mongering in Salvador. I think no cities in Brazil can compare to Rio or São Paulo in the terms of what they can offer to mongers. In Salvador, or any other capital in Brazil, mongering will be limited to:
1. A couple of local termas or Strip-Clubs.
2. Pro's working the bars, discotheques and the streets.
3. Half-pro's, piranhas and regular girls.
Even though I love Rio I have more fun when I'm travelling around in the other states.

El Greco
09-05-06, 17:05
I will second Sperto. Three months 4hr/day course is going to be way too much.

You need breaks in between in order to practice.

I had a one month 4hr/day Spanish course last year in Bs As and it was kind of intense.
After that I spent two months in Colombia and I practiced a lot.

Now I am looking for a similar course in Fortaleza during Nov-April for Portugues.
Does anyone has any info on Fortaleza?


Thanks

El Greco

Exec Talent
09-05-06, 18:19
I have found that the best way to learn the language has been to have a very bright Brazilian girlfriend who has a lot of patience. When not in Brazil, I spend time with Brazilian friends speaking mostly Portuguese. I also subscribe to Brazilian newspapers and work Brazilian crossword puzzles. Originally, I had a Brazilian language tutor which I found very effective for getting over some initial pronunciation difficulties.

El Austriaco
09-05-06, 19:06
I have found that the best way to learn the language has been to have a very bright Brazilian girlfriend who has a lot of patience. When not in Brazil, I spend time with Brazilian friends speaking mostly Portuguese. I also subscribe to Brazilian newspapers and work Brazilian crossword puzzles. Originally, I had a Brazilian language tutor which I found very effective for getting over some initial pronunciation difficulties.
Getting a Portuguese-only Brazilian GF is a GREAT way to practice your newly acquired language skills and offers a huge incentive to improve fast, definitely. Still, if your Portuguese is rudimentary and you're struggling mighty with basic grammar, she might do more harm than good, even if she is very patient, unless she is an experienced teacher. I mean, I know tons of people that are great drivers, but would that make them good driving instructors, necessarily? No. Or consider the other way around... is every native English speaker necessarily qualified to conclusively explain, say, modal verbs or "if" clauses or work out phonetic/phonological issues? Of course not.

Also, I do not see any reason why formal classroom lessons and having a girlfriend are mutually exclusive. Combine both and get the best of both worlds: a solid basis of grammar and syntax and constant correction of errors in the classroom, and unlimited opportunities to practice with a GF. Talking to other native speakers will train your ear to recognize other accents/pronunciations. Reading a lot in the target language, as recommended by Exec Talent, will do wonders to your vocabulary and stylistic registers. I can also recommend Portuguese-language TV (especially with subtitles) and radio for ways to improve your (passive) proficiency. For conversational skills, however, nothing beats actually speaking the language.

EA

Orgasm Donor
09-08-06, 01:44
I find actually interacting with people is the best way. I understand the point in the last post. But somebody going on for hours on the contexts of the word "if" would absolutely bore me to death! Keep it fun!

For example, I almost flunked out of all my grammar classes in school, but I graduated with "A"s in all my college prep literature classes. I think this is because I read alot, and paid attention to how things were spelled, listened to the newscasters on TV, and knew if a sentence "sounded right".

It may be true that because you know how to drive, doesnt exactly mean you would be a good driver instructor, but to use another metaphor, you dont have to know how to build a car to be a racecar driver! (or even drive down the street, which is the what most people want to do here.)

The main thing is to get your point across to another person. Dont worry if it does not come out perfect. (most Americans speak crappy english!) I barely understand people from some parts of the USA, and Ive lived here all my life! You can always try again and attempt to make yourself more clear.

I also think the perfectionists who post here make this thread boring. I know they are trying to help, but in ISG forums, knowing what "sem frescura" means (without a fuss) or "beijos negros" (analingus), is more helpful than literary perfection.

OD

Bubba Boy
09-08-06, 04:33
What you are saying is correct, having people understand you and being able to communicate what you want is a good level to be at. I guess I am pretty much at that level, to get to the next level, and more importantly get rid of alot of the common mistakes i make, it really is necessary to study. I tend to find people I speak with, especially in Brasil, will very rarely correct me when I make a mistake. My theory is, 3 months at a school for 4 hours a day will save me 3 or more years of bumbling through making the same mistakes over and over.

To illustrate this point: I know a number of oldish Italians that grew up in my neighbourhood, despite living in an English speaking country since the 60's speak very little, and badly grammatically incorrect English. The only reason their language skills has not progressed is because they speak to their friends in Italian all the time and have made zero effort to learn the language of their adapted country. Now I personally like these guys, I grew up with their kids, but not making an effort to speak English correctly after living in a country so long is not exactly the way to do things. I really don't want to be in that position because I basically live in Brasil for 6 months of the year.

Polvo
09-08-06, 05:47
I have found that the best way to learn the language has been to have a very bright Brazilian girlfriend who has a lot of patience.I tried this with the Spanish language. Got a beautiful chica girlfriend in Peru, very very bright girl. The result. Her English is brilliant, and my Spanish still sucks.

Polvo

El Austriaco
09-08-06, 07:02
For example, I almost flunked out of all my grammar classes in school, but I graduated with "A"s in all my college prep literature classes. I think this is because I read alot, and paid attention to how things were spelled, listened to the newscasters on TV, and knew if a sentence "sounded right".
That´s the difference between native-language acquisition and second-language acquisition. Many native speakers couldn't explain why something sounds right... it just does. A beginning foreign-language speaker does not have that luxury. In other words, just because you can not explain why grammar is the way it is (which is what grammar classes are about), this does not mean that you do not know how to apply that grammar (literature classes).


It may be true that because you know how to drive, doesnt exactly mean you would be a good driver instructor, but to use another metaphor, you dont have to know how to build a car to be a racecar driver! (or even drive down the street, which is the what most people want to do here.)

You actually confirm my point, people can drive down the street without knowing how to build a car (or even understanding, say, what a cam shaft is). But to explain to someone who has never seen how a car works and why, you better know. Just like someone that has never heard or seen English (but another language) will be puzzled by some aspects of it... some aspects that not every native speaker can make sense of either (although he or she may instinctively know what sounds "right" or "wrong", without being able to explain why).

Yes, the main thing is to get your point across to another person and not worry if it comes out perfect or not. What I am saying is that purely speaking a language without any specific guidance from someone experienced will work just fine for first-language acquisition... that's exactly how we learn language as kids. The thing is, once we learn a second language as an adult, we already speak a first language... and the structure, morphology, phonetics, etc. of this language WILL interfere with second-language acquisition (especially in terms of pronunciation: foreign accent, for example, is a perfect example of first-language interference with the second language).

If just being "understood" is the ultimate goal, fine. For Bubba Boy's stated goal, which is to "get rid of alot of the common mistakes" he makes, I think a more formal classroom course is the way to go, absolutely. That and practice the new skills as much as possible. BB also stated, "I tend to find people I speak with, especially in Brasil, will very rarely correct me when I make a mistake." You know, not only in Brazil. While asking someone "correct me whenever I make a mistake" sounds like a good idea in theory, it NEVER works in the long run in daily practice. Occasionally, yes, but over time? No. Why? Because people want to communicate, not play teacher (the person correcting feels bad about making the other person feel incompetent, and the person being corrected might feel embarassed about making so many mistakes, which KILLS communication). In a classroom setting, this is very different because of the teacher/student relationship.

BTW, I am saying that as someone who was married for many years to a lady with a native language (English) other than mine (German) and as someone who has worked for many years with foreign languages (including 15+ as a teacher and designer of customized language programs).

Anyhow, enough shop talk. Just writing to share my own first-hand language learning experience with a fellow monger rather than striving for literary perfection. But just to show that I do keep in mind the more immediate needs of ISG mongers: it was actually me who explained the meaning of "beijo negro" :)

EA

Sperto
09-08-06, 12:55
I would say there are several levels of gringos speaking Portuguese:
1. The occasional tourist. Just some basic phrases and vocabulary. Enough to communicate with pro's in Copa.
2. The always returning tourist. Wider vocabulary and able to communicate, even though incorrectly, and be understood. Can't handle the verbs correctly.
3. The educated tourist. Taken classes in Portuguese. Knows how to use the grammar and have a very wide vocabulary. Communicates and writes Portuguese very well.
4. The educated and experienced tourist. Except for studying Portuguese he also lived or spent a long time in Brazil. Speaks fluently with proper accent and knows the slang as well.

Bubba Boy
09-08-06, 16:35
I am a 2.5 with aspirations to be a 3 but I only monger with 8's and up...........rs.....rs

Rio Bob
09-08-06, 18:46
I would say there are several levels of gringos speaking Portuguese:
1. The occasional tourist. Just some basic phrases and vocabulary. Enough to communicate with pro's in Copa.
2. The always returning tourist. Wider vocabulary and able to communicate, even though incorrectly, and be understood. Can't handle the verbs correctly.
3. The educated tourist. Taken classes in Portuguese. Knows how to use the grammar and have a very wide vocabulary. Communicates and writes Portuguese very well.
4. The educated and experienced tourist. Except for studying Portuguese he also lived or spent a long time in Brazil. Speaks fluently with proper accent and knows the slang as well.

Yeah Im probably about a 2.5 myself but Im constantly striving to become a full 3. One thing that I am doing now and have been doing for quite some time now is have on my instant messenger buddy list several female buddies who are Brasilian and live in Brazil who I chat with on a regular basis. I am writing to them in Portuguese, thinking in Portuguese, reading in Portuguese and constantly picking up new words from them, translating them and learning them. On several occasions when first meeting one of these women online they were surprised to find out I was a gringo, they told me that my writing in portuguese was very good for a gringo, that comes from practice.

Sperto
09-08-06, 19:48
Yeah Im probably about a 2.5 myself but Im constantly striving to become a full 3. One thing that I am doing now and have been doing for quite some time now is have on my instant messenger buddy list several female buddies who are Brasilian and live in Brazil who I chat with on a regular basis. I am writing to them in Portuguese, thinking in Portuguese, reading in Portuguese and constantly picking up new words from them, translating them and learning them. On several occasions when first meeting one of these women online they were surprised to find out I was a gringo, they told me that my writing in portuguese was very good for a gringo, that comes from practice.
I think writing Portuguese is very important. If you write a word it will stay in your head.

I consider myself a 3,5. Learning more Portuguese is one of the things I really take serious in Brazil. It helps a lot that I travel around very much off the track, to small God's forgotten villages.

Reading books, listening to radio, watch brazilian TV, writing (love-)letters and keep a notebook with new phrases and vocabulary helps a lot. Chatting is excellent, even though they might use "chat-language".

Euro100
09-09-06, 01:54
I would say there are several levels of gringos speaking Portuguese:
1. The occasional tourist. Just some basic phrases and vocabulary. Enough to communicate with pro's in Copa.


Yep, that's me. Each time I come to Rio, I swear I will try to learn a bit more of the language by the next time I am back. ... but then it never happens ...

And while it is true that I can communicate with the pro's in Copa, it is really only enough to get them into the sack. But anytime I find someone interesing, I really regret no being able to speak.

I just bought a language course on DVD for my laptop. Perhaps this will help to get me to level 1.5. Then maybe I will understand when the girls tell me what a dumbass safado I am :)

euro

Sperto
09-09-06, 09:40
It can be fun pretending you don't speak any Portuguese at all. Just sit there with a big smile and listen to the girls discussion about they finding you handsome or how they will rip you off.

If the girls want to have a conversation without you understanding, they might use Língua do P. It's a language game. Add P to the end of each syllable. After the P you just added to the syllable, copy the rime of that syllable.

você: vo-po-cê-pê
bunda: bun-pun-da-pa

Example:
Quero beijar sua irmã.
Que-pe-ro-po bei-pei-jar-par sua-pua ir-pir-mã-pã.

Holguinho
09-09-06, 13:37
Follow this link: http://www.travel-island.com/downloads/languagetranslator.html

Dictionary contents:
Portuguese - English contains 9 864 words.
English - Portuguese contains 6 955 words.

www.Travel-Island.com

Sui Generis
09-09-06, 20:11
According to me, the best on-line Portuguese dictionary is Priberam because it lists a lot of vernacular words or even Brazilian slang (gíria).

Here's a link (with several different useful ressources):

http://www.lexilogos.com/portugais_langue_dictionnaires.htm

Sprite13
09-10-06, 05:00
It can be fun pretending you don't speak any Portuguese at all. Just sit there with a big smile and listen to the girls discussion about they finding you handsome or how they will rip you off.

If the girls want to have a conversation without you understanding, they might use Língua do P. It's a language game. Add P to the end of each syllable. After the P you just added to the syllable, copy the rime of that syllable.

você: vo-po-cê-pê
bunda: bun-pun-da-pa

Example:
Quero beijar sua irmã.
Que-pe-ro-po bei-pei-jar-par sua-pua ir-pir-mã-pã.Great suggestion on both line Sperto! Pretending not to understand/speak Portuguese and the best, the Lingua do P. Going to try that with regular chicks...ahahah. Valeu!:)


One thing that I am doing now and have been doing for quite some time now is have on my instant messenger buddy list several female buddies who are Brasilian and live in Brazil who I chat with on a regular basis. I am writing to them in Portuguese, thinking in Portuguese, reading in Portuguese and constantly picking up new words from them, translating them and learning them. On several occasions when first meeting one of these women online they were surprised to find out I was a gringo, they told me that my writing in portuguese was very good for a gringo, that comes from practice.

I have had the exact same experience when it comes to chatting with Brasileiras. Most of the time, they don't believe me when I say I am not Brasilian. :D

Rio Bob
09-10-06, 22:34
It can be fun pretending you don't speak any Portuguese at all. Just sit there with a big smile and listen to the girls discussion about they finding you handsome or how they will rip you off.

If the girls want to have a conversation without you understanding, they might use Língua do P. It's a language game. Add P to the end of each syllable. After the P you just added to the syllable, copy the rime of that syllable..

In order for one to do this you have to be a solid 3.5 to 4 on the Portuguese scale because it is very difficult to understand a bunch of Brasilians speaking Portuguese together. I see it all the time, I have Brasilian friends, when I walk into a room and they are chatting away its very difficult for me to understand them, they speak so fast and its hard to really catch what they are saying, add this P thing to it and forget about it, you won't have a chance IMHO.

It’s just like watching the news in Brasil, very difficult to understand it all and my Brasilian friends who speak English tell me the same thing when I have CNN on in English that they really can't understand it, too fast.

But when you are one on one talking to someone looking in their face, they talk more slowly then that's a different story. Sure if you live in Brasil or lived in Brasil your ear is trained to do this but even for me and I dedicate a lot of time to Portuguese it's not easy.

Sperto
09-11-06, 12:05
In order for one to do this you have to be a solid 3.5 to 4 on the Portuguese scale because it is very difficult to understand a bunch of Brasilians speaking Portuguese together. I see it all the time, I have Brasilian friends, when I walk into a room and they are chatting away its very difficult for me to understand them, they speak so fast and its hard to really catch what they are saying, add this P thing to it and forget about it, you won't have a chance IMHO.
If you try to speak Língua do P you'll see that's not that difficult, even though it goes slow in the beginning. As the girls might not be Nobel Prize winners they will also speak quite slow when using Língua do P.

When listening to conversations between natives (P thing or not), the news or music you don't have to understand all the words to catch what they are saying.

Mojokpr
09-17-06, 18:29
Hey,

I am just starting a portuguese class, I hope to go to Brazil in late 2007 for some fun, both mongering and otherwise. I am just starting to learn portuguese but I think that the transition from spanish will help a lot. I just started spanish about 4-5 years ago, still have a lot to learn but speak at a low intermediate level. I'm not really studying spanish now but I tend to practise a lot just in my head, saying things to myself in spanish instead of english, just so I hear it a lot. I think even that helps. I also travel by myself, it forces me to talk in another language when I'm in another country, usually latin america.

Anyone here make a recent transition from spanish to portuguese? Any ideas/books/comments that may help? I know the grammar is the same, it looks like a fairly simple transition, mostly accent, some new words and pronunciation.

Thanks

Rio Bob
09-18-06, 01:38
Hey,

I am just starting a portuguese class, I hope to go to Brazil in late 2007 for some fun, both mongering and otherwise. I am just starting to learn portuguese but I think that the transition from spanish will help a lot. I just started spanish about 4-5 years ago, still have a lot to learn but speak at a low intermediate level. I'm not really studying spanish now but I tend to practise a lot just in my head, saying things to myself in spanish instead of english, just so I hear it a lot. I think even that helps. I also travel by myself, it forces me to talk in another language when I'm in another country, usually latin america.

Anyone here make a recent transition from spanish to portuguese? Any ideas/books/comments that may help? I know the grammar is the same, it looks like a fairly simple transition, mostly accent, some new words and pronunciation.

Thanks

When I decided to study Portuguese the first thing I tried to do was find out how many words I already knew in Portuguese because I had studied Spanish in high school and college and I lived in Miami for 5 years, I was surprised to see how many words were the same. I concentrated on those words first changing the accent and slight spelling as needed. Then I discovered how many words in English are very similar to words in Portuguese they are called cognates. So between the Spanish words that are the same and the cognates you instantly have a vocabulary of a good amout of Portuguese words to start out with.

Sounds like your in a pretty good spot, if you have almost a year to do a class in Portuguese I think with dedication and hard work you will be in good shape for your trip.

El Austriaco
09-18-06, 02:06
Anyone here make a recent transition from spanish to portuguese? Any ideas/books/comments that may help? I know the grammar is the same, it looks like a fairly simple transition, mostly accent, some new words and pronunciation.Thanks
Hi there,

Well, knowing Spanish helps in learning Portuguese, for sure, but the similarity between the two languages might actually be more of a curse than a blessing. Knowing Spanish, you will very quickly develop your own version of "Portuñol" which, while understandable to speakers of both Spanish and Portuguese, is actually neither Spanish nor Portuguese, but rather a pretty random mixture of both. If you want to speak somewhat proper Portuguese, the transition from Spanish is going to be anything but easy. In other words: Spanish will heavily interfere with your learning of Portuguese (and once you know some Portuguese, the other way around, too!), and keeping both apart will be a major challenge. Believe me: I've been there.

To address your points individually:

1) The grammar is the same: while they are clearly similar, there are significant differences between Spanish and Portuguese grammar. Portuguese has some tenses that don't even exist in Spanish, for example. Some grammatical constructions are very different, e.g. Spanish "gustar" vs. Portuguese "gostar de":

Sp. Me gustas P. Gosto de VC.
Sp. Te gusta bailar? P. VC gosta de dançar?
Sp. Brasil te gusta? P. VC gosta do Brasil?

2) Some new words: there are a lot of new words in Portuguese and tons of false cognates ("false friends"), i.e. words that look the same, but actually have a different meaning. I remember when I was studying Brazilian Portuguese in Salvador da Bahia in 2002, and when someone asked me whether I was having a good time, I wanted to say "I am enjoying it a lot". Since I wasn't sure how to say that in Portuguese, I resorted to Spanish, thinking that I would just "portuguesanize" it and said "Sim, estou gozando muito." (Spanish gozar = to enjoy, have a good time). People would almost keel over backwards whenever they heard that. I always wondered why until I realized that in Portuguese, "gozar" means "to come, have an orgasm", and the word for "enjoy" is "curtir". There are tons of similar instances in Portuguese, and coming from Spanish, they will drive you nuts.

3) Pronunciation: very different. As a matter of fact, the sound repertoire of Portuguese is way more varied than that of Spanish, with numerous sounds unheard of in Spanish (for example, Spanish lacks any voiced or nasal consonants). Spoken Portuguese (both the Portuguese and the Brazilian variety) are much harder to understand than spoken Spanish. In 2002, I took a flight from Rio with Varig. At that time, the variety of Portuguese I was used to was the Portuguese spoken in Portugal (Lusoportuguese), and you know what: when the in-flight announcements came, I understood exactly NOTHING. Switching over from Spanish pronunciation to Portuguese is gonna make your mouth (and ears) hurt for a while, for sure.

My conclusion: will you be able to read and understand written Portuguese quickly? Yes, very quickly, since the languages are similar enough to get the gist even with limited skills. Will you be able to understand spoken Portuguese quickly? Not very quickly, since getting your ears trained to recognize Portuguese sounds will take some time, and Portuguese is phonetically much more complex than Spanish. Will Spanish help you in actively speaking Portuguese? Yes and no. Tons of words and grammatical structures are similar, but tons of other words and structures are very different or used differently, pronunciation is very different, so you will make a lot of mistakes, mispronounce words, and mix both languages quite a bit. You will be understood, most of the time, but to some degree, you will be speaking a mixture of both. Coming from Spanish, to learn Portuguese somewhat correctly, you will have to focus on the specific differences between the two, which is painstaking work.

In 2004, I spent three-and-a-half months in Rio, speaking Portuguese almost all the time (I already was fluent in Portuguese when I got there). When I got back to Mexico, where I had been living for a year and a half and where I speak Spanish all the time, the incredible happened: I couldn't speak proper Spanish any more. I could see my friends rolling their eyes when I talked to them, so I just said "I know, I know, I am talking like a mentally retarded person right now in Spanish, just give me a couple of weeks to settle in again, and I will be fine". That's how bad it was. Ever since, it has become easier for me to separate the two languages in my mind, but every time I go to Rio now after spending extensive time speaking Spanish on a daily basis, I need a few days to completely switch into Portuguese mode. It's slowly becoming easier, though.

I also remember that back in 1987, as an exchange student at the Unversity of Coimbra in Portugal, I was in the highest-level language course they offered to foreign students, together with people from all over Europe. You know who were the students with the most difficulties? The Spanish speakers. I distinctly remember a group of students from Galicia, the Spanish province bordering Portugal to the north and actually the province where the Portuguese language originated (Galician is sort of halfway between Spanish and Portuguese). Their native dialect was already so similar to Portuguese that it was almost impossible for them to learn proper Portuguese...

But for general mongering purposes and getting your point across, yes, knowing Spanish is better than nothing and will definitely be an asset.

BTW, I am saying this as someone who has been speaking Spanish for roughly 24 years and Portuguese for about 20 (neither one is my native language; as a matter of fact, they are my fourth and fifth languages, respectively). I studied Spanish formally for years in HS, in college, and during a language-course in Venezuela, Portuguese in college (including in Portugal) and during language training in Brazil. I have been living in a Spanish-speaking country for 3+ years now, and I have spent about 10+ months living in Brazil.

Hope this helps, and heads up... it can be done!

EA

Bubba Boy
09-18-06, 03:30
I first started to learn Portuguese about 3 years ago and Spanish about 2 years ago. I had to learn as I was starting to travel through South America, had no choice. Now I can understand pretty much everything in Portuguese and Spanish that is spoken to me. I can also hold a decent conversation in Portuguese. My Spanish pronunciation is impaired, badly. So much so that a chica once remarked to her friend that I was mentally retarded. What other explanation could it be for a person that knows what is going on but can't talk back well...........

I am going to take a 3 month intensive Spanish course this year and then do the same for Porto. It has to get easier at some point to switch between the 2 ;-)

Mangera
09-18-06, 04:12
I took Portuguese lessons twice a week for two and a half months prior to my last visit to Brasil in june and July. I spent almost 6 weeks in Brasil during that stay, speaking nothing but portuguese. Keep in mind I speak both english and spanish very well.

But oh my Lord, when I returned home to the states, whenever I would speak spanish, in particular, with family, I would respond to questions in portuguese without even realizing it. I would just laugh out loud. It took me about two weeks to recondition my mind to respond in spanish.

I agree that spanish hinders a person a bit when making an effort to speak proper portuguese. But initially, it does help, cause there are some similar words. But unfortunately, I use spanish as a crutch when ever I ger stuck in portuguese. As a result, I get lazy, and do not make the effort to learn the proper word that is neccesary when I do get stuck.

But hey, everyone pretty much understood me, and I think Brazilians really appreciated the fact that I was taking lessons and making an effort to learn and adapt to their culture. Most importantly, it made my experencies 10 times better than all of my other previous trips to Brasil. Everything from food, women, making new friendships, music, etc. was just that much more incredible. Meeting non-pros at the gym, bar, beach, was just so much easier, exciting and adventurous as a result of speaking good basic portuguese.

Obviously, pronounciation is important, but what helps me greatly is reading. The more I read, the quicker I improve, just helps expand my vocab. Laters!
Ate logo!

George90
09-19-06, 00:52
I want to add my own 2 cents. I started learning Spanish in 1984 and Portuguese in 1999. My experience with Portuguese was identical to what El Austriaco wrote. While I didn't make the 'gozar' error, I did make others.

I recently went to Colombia after an absence of 4 years. My Spanish was horrible; a confusing mixture of Portuguese, Spanish and English. I kept pronouncing the word for 'year' as it is pronounced in Portuguese. I couldn't keep the Portuguese 'poder' separate from the Spanish 'poder'. And similarly with *** vs tenir. I absolutely agree that the close similarity is more of a hindrance than a help.

I would also say that proper Portuguese is a more difficult language to learn than proper Spanish. One area that I still have great difficulty with is the subjunctive mood. In Spanish there is just one form; the present tense. In Portuguese there are at least 3 forms; the present, past, and future tenses. In one dictionary I have there is a fourth tense of the subjunctive mood, the pluperfect tense. I have no clear idea of when to use each tense of the subjunctive mood and no idea how to form the past and future tenses (I think the future is the same as the infinitive). I use the present tense of the subjunctive whenever the subjunctive is called for, even though I know I am making errors.

If you want to speak Portuguese well, be prepared to work some long hours to do so.

King Of Crunk
09-19-06, 01:53
This is a cool topic because during my trip this past summer I went to Argentina and Brazil. I grew up listening to both Mexican Spanish,Carribean Spanish,and Azorean Portuguese even though Spanish is not my first language it could somewhat be my 4th language now as I think Portuguese is my 3rd. When I took Spanish in high school and used it with Spanish speaking people the basics were alright but when you get to alot of past,present,future things it got tricky.It wasnt until I was out of high school that those people spoke broken or there own dialect even though Spanish from one country to another is totally understood with the exception of slang and phrases. When I got to Argentina I mean basic things I understood but their "Lunfardo" dialect had some sounds I never heard in Spanish before so that threw me off but while I was down there for mongering purposes I spoke more Portuguese than Spanish because that was all I studied prior to my trip so Portuguese was locked in my mind. Even though these languages are similar it can be a curse as well because there are different sounds in Portuguese than in Spanish and I think Portuguese uses a circumflex over and under a letter amd I even saw the double dot used in German appear in some Portuguese words maybe those are imported words I dont know. Some of the letters are pronounced differently as well. But the moral of the story is the more you know the better if all you know is Spanish and your going to Brazil alot of people will understand you but the tricky part is understanding them take a language book with you or study prior to your trip because communication is so necessary. Peace

El Austriaco
09-19-06, 03:05
In Spanish there is just one form; the present tense. In Portuguese there are at least 3 forms; the present, past, and future tenses. In one dictionary I have there is a fourth tense of the subjunctive mood, the pluperfect tense. I have no clear idea of when to use each tense of the subjunctive mood and no idea how to form the past and future tenses (I think the future is the same as the infinitive).
Actually, in Spanish, there are both Present and Past Tense Subjunctive, plus their compound equivalents (Present Perfect and Past Perfect Subjunctive, which are formed by using the Present/Past Subjuctive of the auxiliar verb "haber" + past participle):

Present Tense: Espero que vengas.
Past Tense: Esperaba que vinieras.
Present Perfect Tense: Me gusta que hayas venido.
Past Perfect Tense: Me gustó que hubieras venido.

Portuguese, however, additionally has a Future Subjunctive (and a Future Perfect Subjunctive), which are entirely unknown of in Spanish.

Future Subjunctive is formed using the stem of the Past Tense:

eu cantar, esquecer, sair
(tu cantares, esqueceres, saires)
ele, ela, VC cantar, esquecer, sair
nós cantarmos, esquecermos, sairmos
eles, elas, VCs cantarem, esquecerem, sairem

Irregular forms (based on irregular past tense stems): se eu for, se eu tiver, se eu puder, se eu fizer, se eu estiver, se houver, etc.

So yes, in the 1st and 3rd person Sg. of regular verbs, it looks like the infinitive: but is not. Note the forms above and that 1st and 3rd person Pl. are different. 2nd person Sg. would be different, too, but that form is hardly ever used in Brazil.

Future Perfect Subjunctive:

se eu tiver cantado, tiver esquecido, tiver saido
ele, ela, você tiver cantado, tiver esquecido, tiver saido

se nós tivermos cantado, tivermos esquecido, tivermos saido
se eles, elas, vocês tiverem cantado, tiverem esquecido, tiverem saido

For more info, check http://br.geocities.com/helcio_domingues/index2.html

So actually, in Portuguese, there are six (!) different subjunctive forms: Present, Past, Future, and their corresponding perfect forms. In Spanish, there are only four.

EA

P.S.: How about something no other language has, as far as I know? A "personal infinitive" (it's like squaring the circle, I know).

Bubba Boy
09-19-06, 03:13
I wonder how many Brazilians actually speak correct Portuguese? I saw in the paper recently that 80% of Brazilians finished school before they were 15 years old. Yes sure this figure would be higher in some big cities, but it is a lot lower in most rural areas.

GabrielPontello
09-19-06, 09:51
no matter for the average age they quit the school
the biggest problem is the quantity/quality of teaching
the most doesnt'n even know how to write some uncommon word and the strong use of internet is not helping the knowledge
many errors like "xau" instead of "tchau" will become the rule in few years

El Austriaco
09-19-06, 20:25
I wonder how many Brazilians actually speak correct Portuguese? I saw in the paper recently that 80% of Brazilians finished school before they were 15 years old. Yes sure this figure would be higher in some big cities, but it is a lot lower in most rural areas.
Actually, many more than you think. You know, the issue of "correctness" applies much more to writing, where there are much stricter rules (spelling, for example, construction of sentences). Usually, these rules are much more lax (or lenient) when it comes to speaking.

By the age of 6, you can usually clearly tell whether a child is a native speaker of a language or not. Some of the most advanced pragmatic features of any language (like irony) are learned by the age of 12/13 years. After that, you essentially only add additional vocabulary and ever more complex structures that are non-essentially to conversations in everyday life. In other words, the fact that most Brazilians finish school before the age of 15 does not prevent them from correctly speaking Portuguese, even grammatically, and certainly not phonetically.

Schooling, however, plays in HUGE rule in developing writing skills in a language. Since what is correct or incorrect in a written language is tightly regulated (through the guys who write grammars and dictionaries), a lack of knowledge of these rules is generally interpreted as incorrect by those who are familiar with these rules. Simply put, people without a lot of schooling tend to write the same way they speak (which is considered improper in writing). People with more schooling are better able to clearly differentiate between spoken and written styles (and tend to look down on those who don't).


no matter for the average age they quit the school
the biggest problem is the quantity/quality of teaching
the most doesnt'n even know how to write some uncommon word and the strong use of internet is not helping the knowledge
many errors like "xau" instead of "tchau" will become the rule in few years
Quantity/quality of teaching pertains to writing skills (like spelling), not to speaking.

The theory that the Internet is contributing to "corrupting" the language is a commonly held belief that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You know, they said the same about TV, video games, whatever not. If what you call errors like "xau" instead of "tchau" (actually, they are "alternative" spellings used in a specific subculture, in this case Internet chat rooms) were to become the standard that quickly, we would already be writing "u" instead of "you" or "4" instead of "for" in Standard English. We don't. Wanna know why? Because the guys who define what is "correct" or not in English (70-year + old university professors and ultraconservative editors of grammars and dictionaries) are somewhat different from 15-year old Valley girls hanging out all day in Internet chat rooms, that's why.

George90
10-01-06, 00:03
Actually, in Spanish, there are both Present and Past Tense Subjunctive, plus their compound equivalents (Present Perfect and Past Perfect Subjunctive, which are formed by using the Present/Past Subjuctive of the auxiliar verb "haber" + past participle):

Thanks for the lesson, Austricao.

I printed out your post and have put in my grammar file for foreign languages. I think I know exactly where to go know for answers to my questions on Portuguese and Spanish language. LOL

Veterano
10-09-06, 01:20
Anybody have a suggestion for a Portuguese Language program other than Pimsleur (as I am sick of listening to it)

Thanks

Member #4217
10-09-06, 05:38
Anybody have a suggestion for a Portuguese Language program other than Pimsleur (as I am sick of listening to it)

Thankshttp://www.sonia-portuguese.com/

Tom