American Politics [Archive] - Page 3

DirkDingy

11-05-08, 23:56

Whether Obama remains dove is still to be seen. I think he sooner or later has to demonstrate strength in order to not be dismissed as weak, or he may end like Jimmy Carter. There is a lot of bitterness, even hate, among McCain supporters today and it certainly will be projected on Obama in near future. After listening to comments from NY GOPs, I believe images of black Obama supporters cheering and dancing in front of TV cameras may add fuel to the fire. One couldn't ignore moments when TV cameras panned over crowds of supporters and while Obama's was a mix of mainly Blacks, McCain's had no mix at all. Once again results of US elections indicate evident polarization of American society.

Random European press review, and not so subtle headlines.
De Telegraaf (Dutch) - "Jong an zwart stemt Obama" i.e. "Young and Blacks vote Obama"
Der Spiegel (German) - "Obama erweckt das neue Amerika" i.e "Obama wakes up the new America"
Frankfurter Allgemeine (German) - "Schwarze für Obama, Weiße für McCain" i.e "Blacks Obama, Whites [in favour of] McCain"
Dagens Nyheter (Swedish) - [i]"Obamas farmor lycklig" i.e. "Obama's grandmother happy"

Obma got a larger portion of the white vote than any democractic candidate in the last 30+ years...more than kerry, gore, carter, etc.

Black people make up about 12.3% of the American population and most of them are in large urban areas....in places like wisconsin, colorado, and iowa there are virtually no blacks...obama won them all...read about the electoral college.

i agree that there was a disporportionate number of blacks on tv celebrating...they should have showed some folks in new hampshire or vermont partying. i dont like to see blacks dancing and such, but, bearing in mind america's relatively recent du jour and de factor unfair treatment of minorities, I can see how they would be elated and befallen with pride at our nation's progress and adherence to its founding principles.

if you are smart, driven, and a bit lucky, all things are possible in this great land.

america is not a 3rd world bannana republic...we do not resort to violence or maintain politically paralyzing positions if our candiate looses...we just move on and wait for the next electoral cycle.

those kraut newspapers should have read: whites, blacks, latinos, asians, jews, the educated, the wealthy, the young, catholics, gays, the middle aged, all break for obama.

DJ FourMoney

11-06-08, 03:23

Obma got a larger portion of the white vote than any democractic candidate in the last 30+ years...more than kerry, gore, carter, etc.

Black people make up about 12.3% of the American population and most of them are in large urban areas....in places like wisconsin, colorado, and iowa there are virtually no blacks...obama won them all...read about the electoral college.

i agree that there was a disporportionate number of blacks on tv celebrating...they should have showed some folks in new hampshire or vermont partying. i dont like to see blacks dancing and such, but, bearing in mind america's relatively recent du jour and de factor unfair treatment of minorities, I can see how they would be elated and befallen with pride at our nation's progress and adherence to its founding principles.

if you are smart, driven, and a bit lucky, all things are possible in this great land.

america is not a 3rd world bannana republic...we do not resort to violence or maintain politically paralyzing positions if our candiate looses...we just move on and wait for the next electoral cycle.

those kraut newspapers should have read: whites, blacks, latinos, asians, jews, the educated, the wealthy, the young, catholics, gays, the middle aged, all break for obama.

Well it looked more than this nationally -

96% Black, 66% Latino, 60% White all voted for Obama

As for blacks dancing in the streets and crying, that's my general problem with you DD, so what. Their kids are copying our moves they see on Soul Train at the local nightclub and people think its cool. Listen to our music, wear their hats backwards, try and speak the slang and generally don't have a problem with Black people, as much as they PARENTS DO.

And they showed many WHITE people and Latinos running around crying and smiling.

Shoot the Messenger the "Liberal Media" for showing you imagines that make you queezy, don't shoot Black folk for being themselves.

While race has turned the page, its not over by a long shot and you'll have the "media" lapse into things like this and you'll have to slap their hands. What I really enjoyed is the fact that finally "ASKED" Black people how WE felt and What we thought this mean in our countries History.

We are Americans too BTW, geeuz and thanks for finally asking

http://www.dailykos.com/

Ezinho

11-06-08, 04:03

I find this thread pretty funny. I mean, I can understand how politics and mongering can go together, but most topics discussed here seem to have nothing to to with the stated purpose of this website. Nevertheless, there were a couple of issues brought up from this election that have a lot to do with international mongering.

For those of us that live and work overseas generating income, my prediction right here: President Obama, with Congress, will remove the $85,000 tax exemption on our overseas incomes. Yes, for all of you that voted for change, that's all that will be left in our pockets. The only question now is how we can hide our overseas income.

Another political topic relavent to this site; Proposition K, a ballot initiative in San Francisco, which would have decriminalized prostitution in the city limits, lost by over fifteen percentage points. This in "progressive" San Francisco!

You may now go back to talking about skin color and Joe Lieberman. Sorry for interrupting.

Warbucks

11-06-08, 04:15

I find this thread pretty funny. I mean, I can understand how politics and mongering can go together, but most topics discussed here seem to have nothing to to with the stated purpose of this website. Nevertheless, there were a couple of issues brought up from this election that have a lot to do with international mongering.

For those of us that live and work overseas generating income, my prediction right here: President Obama, with Congress, will remove the $85,000 tax exemption on our overseas incomes. Yes, for all of you that voted for change, that's all that will be left in our pockets. The only question now is how we can hide our overseas income.

Another political topic relavent to this site; Proposition K, a ballot initiative in San Francisco, California, which would have decriminalized prostitution in the city limits, lost by over fifteen percentage points. This in "progressive" San Francisco!

You may now go back to talking about skin color and Joe Lieberman. Sorry for interrupting.

I work and live overseas dude that is scary please don’t speak those words anymore. They already are forcing overseas workers to pay social security which up until two months ago we did not have to. 7% of your gross income. It stings trust me.

CBGBConnisur

11-06-08, 04:57

Regardless Obama has a very hard job ahead of him but he will do fine. Honestly though you do not even have to live in America these days to be super successful since the economy is becoming more global. Read up about the biggest internet mogul no one ever heard of, he is a Canadian guy, a former doctor, who runs a $300 million a year business, a guy by the name of Mark Ham. Obama is going to be great for the increasingly global and competitive world we are going to be living in this new century. That whole Bush doctrine to create a second American century, adios, hola Global Boy Obama.

I was looking at another article about how 2030 would be like, people taking vacations in space hotels, maybe the 21st Century just might look like those sci-fi movies I used to watch when I was younger.

So what if African Americans were cheering and crying tears of joy, its great to see that miracles can happen on this rock of ours.

Do even Americans who ran off to Canada and don't even visit the US pay those taxes? I doubt it.

Legalizing prostitution in the US??? Heheheehe. No way.

DJ FourMoney

11-06-08, 05:05

DirkDingy

11-06-08, 05:06

"break" in the context of electoral politics means that 51% or more of the group voted in a certain direction. therefore my comments are correct and deployed in a manner which buttresses my argument. wink wink.

frequent, or rather inopportune, dancing signals to some excessive emotiveness and an underdeveloped verbal aptitude...not really to me, but to too many people. i took a class on southern political history and part of the supremiscist ideology was, to paraphrase: "look at those darkies dancing, singin, shuckin', and jivin because they are too simple to express their thoughts in other ways."

and, what the fuck does it mean to let black people be black people? Apparently now it means to go excel academically, go to an ivy league college, go to an ivy league law school and become potus.

thank god that obama is defining blackness as something other dunking a basketball or rapping about bitches, hoez, and the dope game.

obama's election should increase my capacity to get fsu slavic pussy

Cruiser D

11-06-08, 13:02

DJ, I don't see how your percentage math adds up. Obama won 53% of the popular vote and McCain 46%. On an unrelated note it's time to do anyway with the electoral college.

Ezinho, this thread was established to keep political talk out of the sex forums. You actually basing the elimination of the tax exempt status on anything other then Obama is a muslim socialist with a fake birth certificate?

Daddy, why shouldn't expats be paying SS? I know a lot of sexpats in the FSU living there full time on their American SS.

Dirk, Obama was an outside shooter not a dunker.

Too funny http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_finally_shitty_enough_to
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations

CBGBConnisur

11-06-08, 18:01

The USA Shitty?? The Onion is so cynical. Bush is shit, the TRAILER PARK TRASH that voted him into office twice was exposed as hypocritical shit, thats why Obama broke the racial barrier, if those failed policies of Bush were to continue as they would under McCain-Palin then you could describe America that way. Still there are far more people trying to get into America than the other way around. Even the trash known as Fox News is shutting up as of late and changing its tone.

Warbucks

11-06-08, 20:04

DW, Obama is black and he's a man, he's also the first black president elect of the US, these are indeed are facts. Is he Snoop Dogg, JayZ, Mike Tyson or Jesse Jackson, no.

Jay didn’t have a white mother or a white family. He grew up [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) poor in the projects with a single Black mother and all Black friends. Now he is worth $500 FUCKING MILLION DOLLARS though he didn’t make it to presidency those “ins” gotta count for something.

CBGBConnisur

11-06-08, 23:32

Even bigger than P Diddy and Russell Simmons??

Cruiser D

11-06-08, 23:57

Run Mann

11-07-08, 01:30

DW, entertainers are just that. What exactly doesn't JayZ stand for? Making $? Big deal. The real people who make a difference are those who leave the world a better place from when they came in. It's a hard knock life.
Despite not being able to carry a tune Jay Z has made millions from his music but he is much more than just an entertainer. He is a humanitarian who has made a difference with his scholarship fund and work in Africa; he did an interview with 60 minutes a while ago that was real telling about who he is, a man of action rather than words.

http://scartersf.org/#

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/entertainment/JayZ-57865.html

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1458927/20021127/jay_z.jhtml

Jelly Donut

11-07-08, 01:37

DJ FourMoney

11-07-08, 04:47

DJ FourMoney

11-07-08, 04:50

"Former Gov. Eliot Spitzer will not be charged with any crime for patronizing a high-priced prostitution ring, federal prosecutors announced on Thursday."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/nyregion/07spitzer.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

I saw that yesterday, he gave up his office too soon.. Unlike Stevens who is guilty as charged and might still win his seat.... Can't knock the hustle...

Cruiser D

11-07-08, 13:15

Run, an article of JayZ humanitarian efforts from 2002, eh? I don't think Mother Theresa or Bill Gates for the matter will be too worried about the competition. Mr Z has taken a lot and hasn't given back all that much. Not that he has to, it just doesn't make him a humanitarian .

I remember reading about the Steven's case. Convicted felons can't be put on a ballot in Alaska. He got on it before he got convicted. Even if he does win it will be his last race. He might spend most of his term in jail. He might get expelled from the Senate. I'm guessing all three will happen. He'll be the first convicted felon re elected to the Senate. Nice state that Alaska, too bad Palin didn't make the cut. She would have been a fine VP. McCain would have been better off running with RR's corpse.

Part of the implied deal for Spitzer was that he had to resign. john's rarely get charged (or exposed) in cases like this. However Spitzer's holier then tho attitude and all the toes he stepped on his way up put a big target on his back.

Jelly Donut

11-08-08, 00:33

I saw that yesterday, he gave up his office too soon.. Unlike Stevens who is guilty as charged and might still win his seat.... Can't knock the hustle...
Spitzer was responsible for bring at least one significant prostitution case against international sex tourists. Not a lot of tears lost here.

The reason the government did not prosecute him in this case is that this is the long-standing policy of the DoJ. Effectively, Spitzer broke whatever laws apply to prostitution in the District of Columbia and that is a matter for the local police there. Read the pdf hanging off that article.

I don't think anyone in the mainstream is suggesting the FBI or DoJ were not doing there job here or were being selective or political. My impression is an even hand. Stevens. Spitzer. They both broke laws and broke the public trust. Can't really gloss it over.

Don't know much about Jay Z. I think he knifed some guy and then wrote "Jigga that Nigga" about it? Most everyday people are way better than that. I don't expect he's going to pull down a Presidential Medal of Freedom anytime soon.

Run Mann

11-08-08, 13:55

Run, an article of JayZ humanitarian efforts from 2002, eh? I don't think Mother Theresa or Bill Gates for the matter will be too worried about the competition. Mr Z has taken a lot and hasn't given back all that much. Not that he has to, it just doesn't make him a humanitarian .

Cruiser, the date of 2002 shows he has been engaged in this type of work for some time now. Try to be objective, you neglected to acknowledge his very valuable scholarship foundation which has helped many who are less fortunate than him and him being honored by the UN for his work in Africa. You asked what he stood for which was what I replied to. He is a humanitarian to those he has helped and he is also much more than some one who only makes $ as you claimed he was.

CBGBConnisur

11-10-08, 05:02

Getting back to politics, how exactly is Obama going to restore America's "status in the world". This is something I am seriously wondering about. How is he going to do it? As in restoring the unipolar moment that existed since the Soviet Union collapsed? I seriously doubt it, in many ways American dominance in many areas will be contested and challenged, even the World Bank predicts China will have a larger economy than the US in real exchange rate terms not PPP by the year 2020. Small third world countries like North Korea are now nuclear capable and more will follow, such as Iran. Its unlikely that Obama is going to lead the world by pointing a gun at the planet, he will have to lead by example, and setting one thats better than his predecessor.

DJ FourMoney

11-10-08, 06:06

getting back to politics, how exactly is obama going to restore america's "status in the world". this is something i am seriously wondering about. how is he going to do it? as in restoring the unipolar moment that existed since the soviet union collapsed? i seriously doubt it, in many ways american dominance in many areas will be contested and challenged, even the world bank predicts china will have a larger economy than the us in real exchange rate terms not ppp by the year 2020. small third world countries like north korea are now nuclear capable and more will follow, such as iran. its unlikely that obama is going to lead the world by pointing a gun at the planet, he will have to lead by example, and setting one that's better than his predecessor.

100% and we'll start by pulling out of iraq and surprise afghanistan! i'm sure you watched martin walker on dateline (the aussie version, not that sensationalized version in the us) that when obama goes to nato/un for more troop support for the "good" war, the eu will say "no way jose" and he'll have to "rethink" america's position which would go into "humanitarian" mode, where will start to rebuild afghanistan via the army corps of engineers.

wishful thinking?

nope, if he wants to keep his promises, he has to cut funding someplace and while mccain wanted to cut funding everywhere but on the wars, why not start with the wars since they are largely unpopular the world over, not just in the us. it would automatically put a happy face on the stars and stripes.

my best friend from high school works construction and lements the credit freeze which has state's cutting back budgets and considering layoffs since all states have to have balanced budgets by law (at least california does). he think the economy will get worst before it gets better and i agree, the bottom hasn't dropped from housing and unless this next stimulus package directly addresses foreclosures and public works projects it will last alot longer.

but the stimulus will fly pass the house and we'll see how adding 5 more senate seats effects its speed in getting out for obama to sign it. i don't see much hold up from the republicans that are left and risk further lost of seats in the mid-terms in 2010.

this action on the ground can not be lost just because he's been elected, we must continue to bug congress. when we didn't want the original bailout, we called (in fact) hammered on congress and it fell. but then cnbc and others kept telling people that it would be good and help the frozen credit issues, which hasn't largely happen...

then when the revision came down, it was fit (not really) to past and now we know it didn't have enough restrictions on it, but at least only 150 billion got released and we've largely seen where that has gone -
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/106195/wall_street_fat_cats_are_trying_to_pocket_billions_in_bailout_cash/

even though wall st. invested heavily into obama, i think some extra restrictions are coming down.... no they didn't want it but hey they asked for the axe to come down.

it will be interesting to see what happens and if my opinions turn out correct.

CBGBConnisur

11-10-08, 14:25

Cruiser D

11-10-08, 14:54

The power vacuum in Iraq has been filled and there is seemingly now a dominant faction. The US won't be leaving Iraq for a long time, unless the situation goes Vietnam. There will be a draw down of combat forces in Iraq and an increase in Afghanistan. It took 4 years and another president but it looks like the real war on terror, Afghanistan will finally be addressed.

I can assure you that not every state is forced to have a balanced budget by law. And how can the CA budget be balanced if the credit crunch and the inability to borrow is forcing them toward bankruptcy. Or is this some kind of special government economics where balancing your budget doesn’t mean paying your bills with the money you make but the money you borrow.

Doctor_Skank

11-10-08, 15:47

A large number of voters who were and are anti war voted for Obama. If he does not make good on that promise he will probably lose those voters or just discourage them. I do think US foreign policy will change radically under Obama, especially with regards to military matters.As long as he doesn't try to rip the balls off the military like Carter did, OK.

Main issues for me aren't even the wars, it's the self-serving corruption involved in weapons appropriation... where the decision to buy which weapons and equipment is more about jobs, egos and profit than providing our soldiers with the best equipment to get the job done.

CBGBConnisur

11-10-08, 18:02

clinton did not exactly support the military either, back in those days people joked that you had a better chance of being anal raped than dying in battle unlike today where the military is taken very seriously. i seriously doubt the us will continue to have large military presence overseas, the military is already cutting staff in europe, a few years ago rhein main was shut for good, and smaller forces will be deployed overseas. i recall the military wanted to place soldiers in georgia, that did not happen. pointing a gun at other countries and expecting them to dance will not work anymore, especially since those other countries will have guns too, actually nukes. countries like india, pakistan, and nk have them, just about any country can. i bet brazil will go nuclear too, it almost did in the past. the mad principle mainly applies among relations between china, russia, and the us but it will gradually apply to more countries.

the military will be less people based and more automated in the coming decades, sounds like something out of a terminator movie, but self aware computer systems and robots will actually be reality in about 15 years.

certain key allies will continue to shift away from america, japan will be the most notable one, they are pretty much in china's pocket. in fact, japanese companies are aggressively trying to penetrate the growing chinese market which will actually be larger than the us in 12 years or so.

Member #2041

11-10-08, 18:17

Cruiser D

11-10-08, 18:26

DJ FourMoney

11-10-08, 22:35

It was the policies (the draft) and failures of Vietnam, which caused the decline of the US military. Which still at that point were a more effective force then the Soviets on their best day (a very rare day indeed). Carter is best known for the abortive Iranian rescue mission (a friend of mine was actually there). Instead of sending in a small commando group he should have sent in the Marine Corps and the 5th Fleet. The hostages would have been killed but it would have sent a strong message. But then again who knows, maybe Jimmy the humanitarian had it right.

Obama is all for pressing the war in Afghanistan while drawing down Iraq.

The US military and government buying foreign helicopters, planes and for that matter anything else is just out and out wrong.

Take what you want from this but the Pentagon says "You need to cut Military Spending"

I also said (you must have glossed over it) that Afghanistan has gotten worst and even with troop draw down in Iraq, you start sending them back into battle, your going to get a large "Hell No We Won't Go" and to prevent that from reaching the media, he'll instead go to the UN and ask for help.

The EU will say, we like you Obama, but NO.

Who else is going to step forward with the equipment, technology and troops to continue the War in Afghanistan? Nobody and Russia even wouldn't be interested, they tried that already.

The French won't do it, the Germans already want out of Iraq and growing impatience will prevent them from committing to it, so basically its dead in the water.

This is hope, pie in the sky, dreams (and all that other BS) that we would really rethink policies like this, but there's no boogieman out there anymore per say and we can find Osama just fine with the CIA, NSA and other world intelligent agencies. In fact umm I'm pretty sure we already know where he is...

We don't need wars to fight terrorism, duh after all the Brits didn't send planes to bomb Ireland....

Doctor_Skank

11-10-08, 23:03

Who else is going to step forward with the equipment, technology and troops to continue the War in Afghanistan? Nobody and Russia even wouldn't be interested, they tried that already.
Nobody else on the planet has the logistical capability to fight an overseas war. Fact. Without US airlift capabilities, the EU can only transport and sustain a battalion or two. Russia can airlift, but can't keep logistics up for more than a couple weeks. China has zero power projection beyond it's borders and is 2 decades away from being a world military power.

Besides, I don't think anyone besides the US really thinks it is worth the effort. No fault of foreign troops though, UK, Canada, Aussies, Danes, Norwegians, French, Dutch all fulfilling combat roles..... well.
the Germans already want out of IraqI think you meant A-stan, the Germans aren't in Iraq.
We don't need wars to fight terrorism, duh after all the Brits didn't send planes to bomb Ireland....I understand your point, but that is a poor comparison.

CBGBConnisur

11-11-08, 00:28

I actually did the ROTC thing in college and had to do my obligatory period of service afterwards in the Navy, this was during the 1990s, the military was in horrific shape during the Clinton era. The one thing I will concede to Bush is that
he has actually supported the military better than his predecessor. I actually thought that time was one of the most interesting times in my life and initially exposed me to the world outside of America, that's how I initially got to see Australia.
McCain by far has superior military credentials to Obama, whatever Powell said was purely political. McCain was a career military man. Still I don't think this is a good time in history to be starting more wars.

Cruiser D

11-11-08, 13:50

Cruiser D

11-12-08, 19:57

Just a general btw to all of you that have been following my political and economic postings in general. The line forms to the right for all the naysayers who said oil would never go under $50/barrel to kiss my ring. Anyone want to try for $30? Ding dong, the petro president will be no more in a couple of long months. Anyone willing to bet that 700+ billion will be long gone by then and the economy will be in just as bad shape if not worse when the corporate welfare hand outs started?

Jelly Donut

11-13-08, 02:04

Anyone want to try for $30?
The growth rates of China and India, while they have slowed down, they are both moving along at a brisk pace. The Chinese economy is projected to grow at 8.5% next year; India at 6.3%. Together that's half the global population, right? China and India are the two 800-lbs gorillas in the room of oil consumption. This could keep oil prices from returning to the range they ran in during the last US recession.

Nobody else on the planet has the logistical capability to fight an overseas war. Fact.
The United Kingdom has the military means to fight some specific overseas wars, say, recapturing the Islas Malvinas. Likewise, the French maintain a respectable amphibious force. I strongly suspect they are going to put up a fight after I sieze Tahiti.

JD, being difficult.

Cruiser D

11-13-08, 04:08

I don't mind waiting a few months to gloat. USA, Western Europe, Eastern Europe and then China and India, look for the Chinese market to flatline next. Domino's. The US sets the market, the rest can only follow. China's projected growth rate has already been havled by what you stated. I think it's going to be zero or on the other side of zero. What we have going on is a global economic game of musical chairs, and we still have a few more rounds to play.

The British came fairly close to being severally bloodied in the Falkland Islands. Could the British or French deploy and support a force the same size or larger then a division? Doubtful. The US military bases in Iraq have Starbucks, Pizza Huts, Subways, Burger Kings and Baskin Robins. I doubt the Tommies were living like that in Basra. The US stopped using local sourced foodstuff in Iraq about two years ago due to quality issues. Everything now is being flown in from the US. What other nation in the world has the resources to do something as insane as that? The Russian Army just started issuing socks as standard kit last year.

The growth rates of China and India, while they have slowed down, they are both moving along at a brisk pace. The Chinese economy is projected to grow at 8.5% next year; India at 6.3%. Together that's half the global population, right? China and India are the two 800-lbs gorillas in the room of oil consumption. This could keep oil prices from returning to the range they ran in during the last US recession.

The United Kingdom has the military means to fight some specific overseas wars, say, recapturing the Islas Malvinas. Likewise, the French maintain a respectable amphibious force. I strongly suspect they are going to put up a fight after I sieze Tahiti.

JD, being difficult.

Doctor_Skank

11-13-08, 08:07

I don't mind waiting a few months to gloat. USA, Western Europe, Eastern Europe and then China and India, look for the Chinese market to flatline next. Domino's. The US sets the market, the rest can only follow. China's projected growth rate has already been havled by what you stated. I think it's going to be zero or on the other side of zero. What we have going on is a global econmic game of musical chairs, and we still have a few more rounds to play.
A slowing US economy affects China first among the "new global players". They'll take a hit, their own economic boom slowing anyway after the construction boom slowed post-Olympics. Need some office space in Guangdong? They're giving it away right now. Undercapacity.

Russian economic minister Kudrin:

"Growth planned at $95 oil"
"Budget can be kept at $60 oil"

11/08 "We plan on $50 oil in 2009 and crisis to hit first 6 months of 2009"

I'll give the Russians one thing, they're government is clever, young and forward-thinking, not to mention pragmatic. They might just have to put back those plans for aircraft carriers, moon bases and fleets of PAK-FA fighters for now.

Still, both the Chinese and Russian budgets are in SURPLUS. Can the US say that? Main Russian problem is getting credit for their projects now. It's gotten expensive.
The United Kingdom has the military means to fight some specific overseas wars, say, recapturing the Islas Malvinas. Likewise, the French maintain a respectable amphibious force. I strongly suspect they are going to put up a fight after I sieze Tahiti.
Personally I am a big fan of the UK military, their soldiers are among the world's best. But they do lack logistical capabilities, air strength, airlifting capabilties etc.

Even the FALKLANDS would be a challenge for them now. The Falklands. Could they take on Pakistan or even Yemen? By all respect for the Royal Marines, the Parachute Regiment and all that... I doubt it.

Cruiser D

11-13-08, 12:27

The British do indeed field a well trained, highly disciplined soldier with a lot of tradition behind him. Call me a nationalist but I'll stay with the common US soldier. No other country has the night fighting capabilities of the US soldier or the overwhelming support of highly sophisticated combined arms. Then of course there is the logistics and the digital command and control structure.

We've all be through the Soviet PR machine during the Cold War and those of us who have been over there can only scratch our heads and say what were they talking about. How much of those military plans are propaganda, I'm guessing about 90%. Moon base? I'm sure NASA has several back up plans for when the shuttle fleet is retired and it's up to the Russians to supply the ISS and they fail or can't do it to US standards. Look for oil to keep going down down down as the US runs down the path of being fossil fuel free.

It's easy for the Russian government to be pragmatic, they are insulated from the public. None of those guys are thinking wow, 'we' are screwed. They are thinking hmm, too bad the average Russian citizen is screwed. At least in the US when a government official screws up he finds himself voted (or fired) out of office and a social pariah.

Jelly Donut

11-14-08, 01:53

I don't mind waiting a few months to gloat.
You might be right, but I think the odds are long on 30 dollar oil. It's best in these cases to take a short position on oil, that way you can bank money on your insight. Gloating is great, but money - well, it speaks for itself. Good luck.

The US military bases in Iraq have Starbucks, Pizza Huts, Subways, Burger Kings and Baskin Robins.
Indeed. It's amazing Alexander the Great got anywhere in his endeavors across Iraq and Afganistan without access to any significant sources of caffine, fat or sugar.

Bango Cheito

11-14-08, 07:36

I find it very surreal that somebody could refer to the US food supply in ANY sort of a positive light. One of the reasons I moved OUT of the US was the shit fucking food.

DJ FourMoney

11-14-08, 11:35

I find it very surreal that somebody could refer to the US food supply in ANY sort of a positive light. One of the reasons I moved OUT of the US was the shit fucking food.

Well food has to travel great distances, nobody's fault the people that kept buying up farmland to put suburbs up. Its happening in Central California now, they say by 2020 or slightly later all the rich Central California farmland will be covered in sub-divisions.

I hope it doesn't happen or that will be the next crisis in America, were do we grow the food!

Food is fine in America man, go to a Farmer's Market, Trader Joe's or Whole Foods Markets you'll be just fine....

I still eat "junk" gained a grand total of 20 lbs since high school some 20 years ago. I don't overeat and could lose this 20lbs whenever I feel like it, which might be soon, I lost 12lbs just walking around Europe....

DJ FourMoney

11-14-08, 11:54

Have you actually talked to anyone who serves in the US active military? Their professionalism and high morale always amazes me. Most of them realized when they signed up it wouldn't always be a Stateside or Western Europe posting. One doesn't sign up to be a trash truck driver and then gets amazed he has to drive trash around. It's the Reserves and the NG that got the real raw deal.

Bin Laden and his organization are a world problem - the bombings in W Europe and SE Asia. Afghanistan is a more true coalition operation and I don’t think support for it will be wavering anytime soon. Iraq was W's own personal deal, him fronting for the Saudi’s and big Oil. The only way we got anyone to support us in Iraq is by W squandering our good will capital in W Europe and bribing E Europe.

If the British had sent planes to bomb Ireland the US and the UN would have been there within a few days, probably not a good idea. I don't think there were any planes involved in the Easter Rebellion but there was plenty of artillery and a naval gunboat.

Some, of course they are proud to serve but only crazy wanna-be butchers that play too much Halo and Call of Duty in their free time actually WANT to be there.

In fact all the people that love playing FPS' so much should find there way to the local recruiting office, put your "skills" to use, most of them are slackers.

That has nothing to do with supporting an illegal war, which many of them don't and the way they CHEERED loudly when it was final that Obama was President-Elect...

They are thinking about COMING HOME finally!

I hope this is the last time the MIC or Congress give the go-ahead for any war. We have NOT needed to fight any war since WW2 and should have left it at that.

Cheney learning from 'Nam didn't want any public involvement in wars and wanted to ban pictures of coffins coming back on planes because they wanted to insulate the public from the war. If they saw the death and most of the destruction, they would march in the street. Eventually did they march in the streets but the mainstream media didn't cover it.

Now the Occupation is issue number #4 after the Economy, National Health Care and other issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lTUB5_l0Mg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7abu9a0xtNI

LIES, all of them

Makes jokes about WMD's now in front of Republican Fund Raisers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VD1gOhpRSU&feature=related

Don't give me that crap about US Soliders are prideful and want to fight this war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_cjkWevHNM&feature=related

D I like you man but c'mon...

Cruiser D

11-14-08, 17:21

DJ FourMoney

11-15-08, 04:05

Yeah, one wonders were you used to buy your food Bango, did someone put a gun to your head and force you to always buy over processed crap?

Umm, like I said DJ, have you actually talked to a US soldier? I don't get my news or views on what soldiers are thinking from youtube. I spend some time on US military bases and I interact with the soldiers.

And the US right now has the capability to feed the world, the government still pays farmers not to farm. I don't think food is going to be our next crisis, that is as long as you can afford it. ;)

Yes I have, the last one; he was glad to be home, he was glad he got discharged with honor and didn't support it one bit. He joined before the War (long before, '99) and been in Kosovo as well.

Yes there knuckle heads that support any kind of battle, it gives them a hard-on, killing Iraqis now around 1.5 Million, many of them CHILDREN is hardly creditable to supporting a War, they just like KILLING PEOPLE.

I don't get my news from You Tube. I watched Winter Solider since no other media outlet would support it, after all when your GE (NBC), you can't have any dissension in the ranks. For CBS and ABC, its just flat disappeared from the news, its covered less than 2% by anybody but Democracy Now and other left leaning channels/web sites which reports on it every f***king day.

Its because everybody largely ignored the mainstream media is proof how Obama won by a landslide and that maybe you should get your news from You Tube.

Also Nate Silver who's a Sports Stat man had closer predictions than any other "classical" poll out there, further proving that mainstream media is out of touch. The best thing was turning Palin into a Cartoon by Tina Fey which was the most powerful thing that happen and was heaven sent.

Who cares who's Army is better, I sure as hell don't

Cruiser D

11-15-08, 10:24

I didn't say soldiers particularly support the war, they just go about their business with amazing professionalism and dedication. Just about none want be in Iraq.

Obama didn't will by a popular vote landslide, just in the Electoral College. Which by the way needs to be done away with. It just serves no purpose, other then allowing W to become president in 2000 and starting the travesty of the last 8 years. The Electoral College has as much relevance now as having to be a white male landowner to vote.

Doctor_Skank

11-15-08, 12:51

Yes I have, the last one; he was glad to be home, he was glad he got discharged with honor and didn't support it one bit. He joined before the War (long before, '99) and been in Kosovo as well.

Yes there knuckle heads that support any kind of battle, it gives them a hard-on, killing Iraqis now around 1.5 Million, many of them CHILDREN is hardly creditable to supporting a War, they just like KILLING PEOPLE.
Good thing he is out of the army because the army doesn't need people like him.

True that many soldiers don't fully understand or support the war in Iraq. Initially I didn't either. I certainly didn't buy into the entire premise of the war.

Nonetheless, most soldiers I have spoken to do believe in what they are doing and do believe that ultimately their hard work and sacrifice will benefit Iraq and the United States. US involvment in Iraq has evolved from the initial (and faulty) premise that we went there to protect ourselves from terrorists. It was regime change protocol from the very beginning. Nonetheless, Iraq 2002-2005 is not the Iraq of today. Priorities, mission, position have all changed significantly and the army is doing a very good job excercising a mission that it was never trained or intended to do. They are learning very quickly.

It will be a long time before the US has fully extracted itself out of Iraq, if that is the US intention at all. The investment into the country can't be measured in $ alone... neither can the cost.

Just like in a relationship, the longer you are in the harder it is to get out.

We are in for another 3 years at least. I suspect we"ll be there longer under other less-martial terms, which we should be. If we aren't, somebody else will be. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq
Who cares who's Army is better, I sure as hell don'tLet's hope you and the rest of the apathetic civilian world never have to find out or be dependent on an army which you don't care about.
Some, of course they are proud to serve but only crazy wanna-be butchers that play too much Halo and Call of Duty in their free time actually WANT to be there.That's a ridiculous statement. Never believed in anything in your life? You've obviously never been a soldier so don't start thinking you know what it is like because you watched something on youtube or talked to some disgruntled buddies.

Jelly Donut

11-15-08, 17:22

..
Yes there knuckle heads that support any kind of battle, it gives them a hard-on, killing Iraqis now around 1.5 Million, many of them CHILDREN is hardly creditable to supporting a War, they just like KILLING PEOPLE.

The reality is the Unted States could have gone into Iraq and fought a war in which hardly any Americans would die at all. Got a problem in Fallujah? Boom. No more Fallujah. The US did not go down that road in the interest of limiting civilian casualties.

The kind of war the folks at Democracy Now and The Lancet dream of when they produce numbers like 1.5 million is this kind of total war. The currency of these people is not truth. They have an agenda and they move ideas forward based on the agenda, not on reality. The bigger the number, the more self-satisfied they feel. That's just the way it is.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science has had a few interesting articles in Science trying to understand and questioning why the Lancet numbers were so far off every other study of civilian casualties. I think any reasonable person would at least ask the same kind of questions. I'd encourage you to be more critical of your sources.

Cruiser D

11-15-08, 21:08

Actually Jelly we started a limited total war during the height of the insurgency (egads sounds like Vietnam doublespeak) after watching the Brits employ it with results in Basra. Take sniper fire from a highrise? Boom, no more highrise. 1.5 mil sounds a bit excessive. 100k, maybe.

Dr S, we'll be in Iraq until they boot us out or 20-40 years in one form or another take your pick.

The Middle East has always been the 800lb gorilla in the room no one wants to talk about. We could have either invaded Iraq or spent all the money and resources on going fossil fuel free - if we had done that in 2003 we'd probably be 70% free by now. Instead of an economy tittering on the edge we be in a powerful surge like the 40's, 50's and 60's. We could have continued our cold war in the Middle East and keep applying political and economic pressure while reducing the Middle East relative importance in the world. For the best interests of the USA the W administration chose the wrong path. Instead the W administration chose a path that was against the best interests of the country while benefiting foreign countries and big oil. The US military has done a great job and continues to be at the forefront of emerging military doctrine and tactics. W and the rest of the crew should be Perp walked out the White House, sadly that will never happen.

Bango Cheito

11-15-08, 21:27

In NYC farmers markets have limited hours. And Trader Joes and Whole Foods are STILL junk.

Here in Bogota I can walk 15 minutes and be in a REAL farmers market, open year round, 6 days a week, and has food that blows away the best farmers market in the US. And it costs about 8 cents on the dollar what it costs in the US too!!

Well food has to travel great distances, nobody's fault the people that kept buying up farmland to put suburbs up. Its happening in Central California now, they say by 2020 or slightly later all the rich Central California farmland will be covered in sub-divisions.

I hope it doesn't happen or that will be the next crisis in America, were do we grow the food!

Food is fine in America man, go to a Farmer's Market, Trader Joe's or Whole Foods Markets you'll be just fine....

I still eat "junk" gained a grand total of 20 lbs since high school some 20 years ago. I don't overeat and could lose this 20lbs whenever I feel like it, which might be soon, I lost 12lbs just walking around Europe....

CBGBConnisur

11-19-08, 19:36

Israeli Iran war will be the first big crisis Obama will deal with. Its coming, don't think it ain't. A major confrontation between Israel and Iran is on the cards.

CBGBConnisur

11-25-08, 17:03

You must be on drugs, Iran is destined to go nuclear and its going to have serious reverberations. There was a recently released intelligence report that paints a grim picture regarding the USA's ability to influence the world over the next 12 to 17 years. Since its written by the CIA its very credible and a lot more than the nonsense I am reading on this forum that America is going to continue along as the dominant force in the world, especially from the resident pom Geneva schoolboy on this board. Among the big developments is the rise of non Arab Muslim powers, Iran, Indonesia, and Turkey are all mentioned. Iran will be the first to get the bomb, the other two will also be on their way. Also the Dollar will lose its exclusive role as the world reserve currency and compete with the other major units of wealth such as the Euro and the Renmimbi.
Obama's more diplomatic plan to remake the 21st Century a continued American century is going to fail just like Bush's militaristic plan.
Biden is just being realistic about things, and probably was just adding reality to the current euphoria over Obama, which will not last very long. The conventional US military machine will not mean much when other nations have nukes. The MAD principle never went away and it still pretty much dictates US relations with China and Russia to a heavy degree. Why else are we less antagonistic to Moscow and Beijing even though they have serious issues with human rights, especially Beijing? And I bet the same will go for US relations with Iran in the coming years, there will be no other choice. Within the time frame of that report China will have substantially more advanced nuclear capability than right now. India will also be a factor in the MAD principle too.

CBGBConnisur

12-02-08, 16:15

American politics is screwed up, I don't really give a rat about Democracy any more. Democracy allowed that horrific massacre in India to occur. Recently went to China, a police state, got as much p4p as I can dream about, and no worries with the law over there. If I did the same thing in the good old USA I would be in lock up in no time flat, the cops would put up a photo of me on TV and the web saying CBGB visits hookers. I don't care for Israel or Iran either but the Mideast has been a big part of US foreign policy since Truman.

Obama was talking all about "Change" but look what happened? He is surrounding himself by a bunch of graybeards. And despite the slowdown plaguing the US and Europe, China will still be the fastest growing big economy in the world for a very long time, maybe not growing at 12 to 13 percent like it has recently, but still at a very healthy clip and I bet their Renmimbi will appreciate dramatically over the next 10 years which will effectively make them the richest nation on Earth in a little over a decade. much sooner than 2035 that most people predicted they would be numero uno by.

Opebo

12-03-08, 00:17

i'd like to bring up the kind of american politics that really matters - the theocracy taking an american freedom fighter prisoner. i don't know if any of you know max harcore, but he produces, directs, and acts in some of the finest pornography out there, and thusly, he became a specific target of the bush administration's move to end free speech and implement theocracy (said program began in earnest in 2005).

just a month or so ago, max was sentenced to four years in prison(!) for 'obscenity'. (http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/07/adult-film-director.html)

wiki about max (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/max_hardcore)

Cruiser D

12-03-08, 03:17

Do you guys live in far away isolated cabins with internet access?

Warbucks

12-06-08, 05:24

http://www.yahoo.com/s/135782/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081206/ap_on_re_us/oj_simpson

OJ put himself in this position but an all white jury could there be any other outcome?

A lot of child molesters don't receive this much time.

O.J. gets at least 9 years for armed hotel robbery

A weary and beaten-looking O.J. Simpson was put away Friday for at least nine years — and perhaps the rest of his life — for an armed robbery in a hotel room, bringing a measure of satisfaction to those who believed the football star got away with murder more than a decade ago.

The 61-year-old Hall of Famer listened stone-faced, his wrists in shackles, as Judge Jackie Glass pronounced the sentence — 33 years behind bars with eligibility for parole after less than a third of that.

Moments before, Simpson made a rambling, five-minute plea for leniency, simultaneously apologizing for the holdup as a foolish mistake and trying to justify his actions.

He choked back tears as he told her: "I didn't mean to steal anything from anybody ... I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all of it."

The judge said several times that her sentence in the Las Vegas case had nothing to do with Simpson's 1995 acquittal in the slaying of his ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman.

"I'm not here to try and cause any retribution or any payback for anything else," Glass said.

But Goldman's father, Fred Goldman, and sister, Kim, said they were delighted with the sentence.

"We are thrilled, and it's a bittersweet moment," Fred Goldman said. "It was satisfying seeing him in shackles like he belongs."

Simpson said he and five other men were simply trying to retrieve sports memorabilia and other mementos when he stormed a Las Vegas hotel room occupied by two dealers on Sept. 13, 2007. He insisted the items, which included his first wife's wedding ring, had been stolen from him.

But the judge emphasized that it was a violent confrontation in which at least one gun was drawn, and she said someone could have been shot. She said the evidence was overwhelming, with the planning, the confrontation itself and the aftermath all recorded on audio or videotape.

Glass, a no-nonsense judge known for tough sentences, imposed such a complex series of consecutive and concurrent sentences that even many lawyers watching the case were confused as to how much time Simpson got.

Simpson could serve up to 33 years, according to Elana Roberto, the judge's clerk.

In state prison, he will remain in his own cell protected from the general prison population because of his celebrity.

Simpson's lawyer suggested again that his client was a victim of payback for his acquittal in Los Angeles.

"It really made us all aware that despite our best efforts, it's very difficult to separate the California case from the Nevada case," attorney Yale Galanter said.

Some people who followed the case said justice had finally caught up with Simpson.

"You do things and you've got to expect karma to come around," said Greg Wheatley, 32, of Los Angeles.

Simpson was led away to prison immediately after the judge refused to permit him to go free on bail while he appeals.

Simpson's co-defendant and former golfing buddy, Clarence "C.J. Stewart, was sentenced to up to 27 years in prison but would be eligible for parole after 7 1/2 years, court officials said.

The judge could have sent both men to prison for the rest of their lives. The state parole agency recommended at least 18 years. The defense pushed for the minimum six years.

District Attorney David Roger revealed that Simpson and Stewart had both been offered plea agreements during the trial that would have resulted in lesser sentences. He would not provide details.

The prosecutor also said that because the crimes were considered violent felonies, Simpson and Stewart will not be eligible for good-behavior credits to lessen their sentences. He did not expect them to be immediately released when they do seek parole.

The Goldmans took a share of the credit for Simpson's fate, saying their relentless pursuit of his assets to satisfy a $33.5 million wrongful-death judgment "pushed him over the edge" and led him to commit the robbery to recover some of his valuable sports memorabilia.

Nicole Brown Simpson's sister, Denise Brown, released a statement from her family referring to the date her sister and Ron Goldman were killed.

"Allowing wealth, power and control to consume himself, he made a horrific choice on June 12, 1994, which has spiraled into where he is today," the statement said.

Simpson and Stewart were both brought to the courtroom in dark blue jail uniforms, their hands chained to their waists. Simpson, who had not been expected to speak, delivered his statement to the judge in a hoarse voice before a hushed courtroom.

Both men were convicted Oct. 3 of 12 criminal charges, including kidnapping and armed robbery.

"We were preparing Mr. Simpson for the worst," Galanter said. "We felt we did really well. Obviously, he's upset about the possibility of doing nine years."

Galanter planned to file a notice of appeal later Friday. He believed the Goldman family's presence in the courtroom was inappropriate.

Most of the 63 seats in the courtroom were taken by media, lawyers and family members of the defendants. Fifteen members of the public were also allowed.

After sentencing was over, the Goldmans left the courtroom and Kim threw her arms around her father and wept.

One of Simpson's sisters declined to comment, and the other, Shirley Baker, said only: "It's not over."

Jurors who heard 13 days of testimony said after the verdict that they were convinced of Simpson's guilt because of audio recordings that were secretly made of the robbery at the Palace Station casino hotel.

The confrontation involved sports memorabilia brokers Alfred Beardsley and Bruce Fromong. It was recorded by collectibles dealer Thomas Riccio, who was acting as middleman.

"Don't let nobody out of this room!" Simpson commands on the recordings, and he instructs other men to scoop up items.

On Tuesday, the judge is scheduled to sentence four former co-defendants who took plea deals and testified against Simpson and Stewart.

Michael McClinton, Charles Cashmore, Walter Alexander and Charles Ehrlich could receive probation or prison time. McClinton could get up to 11 years; the others face less.

___

Associated Press wri

CBGBConnisur

12-11-08, 13:41

Big whoop, OJ was guilty then and guilty now. He largely got away with it then and was pushing his luck now. Next time he should have used normal legal procedures to get his so called property instead of taking the law into his own hands.

Sgt Perv

12-11-08, 16:40

What about an Illinois Governor trying to sell a US Senate seat?

This fool got caught, on tape, trying to sell Obamas senate seat.

CBGBConnisur

01-03-09, 00:16

Wow, so far Israel has decided to attack Hamas rather than defang Tehran's nuclear program. I am wondering just how US foreign policy will develop under Obama after Bush's hawkish leadership. Obama has repeatedly said he wants to sit down and talk with the leader of Iran without any precondition. Its going to be some very interesting times.

DJ FourMoney

01-03-09, 00:56

The reality is the Unted States could have gone into Iraq and fought a war in which hardly any Americans would die at all. Got a problem in Fallujah? Boom. No more Fallujah. The US did not go down that road in the interest of limiting civilian casualties.

The kind of war the folks at Democracy Now and The Lancet dream of when they produce numbers like 1.5 million is this kind of total war. The currency of these people is not truth. They have an agenda and they move ideas forward based on the agenda, not on reality. The bigger the number, the more self-satisfied they feel. That's just the way it is.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science has had a few interesting articles in Science trying to understand and questioning why the Lancet numbers were so far off every other study of civilian casualties. I think any reasonable person would at least ask the same kind of questions. I'd encourage you to be more critical of your sources.

I am highly critical of the "Left" they are a trip...

Did we need a war in Iraq? No

Does it matter that people of color have Nuclear Weapons? No

You talk to "Rouge" nations into not being "Rouge". People want Nukes because they FEAR ATTACK BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If our industries needed more salt for example and India had it, I bet somebody would actually have a discussion about how many Americans would be killed by one nuclear missile getting through our "Star Wars" defense plan and calling that "acceptable losses".

The whole idea of "Preventive" War is ridiculous, a couple of Saudis get some planes and fly them into some buildings and there's a whole series of QUESTIONS surrounding that, so WHY is it acceptable to so many???

That's because Americans are largely STUPID, feel sorry about Rich people getting more of the tax burden and that would cause mass firings and job loss... Again RIDICULOUS!

Look I have a bs job man, you have some edumacated job because you went to school, good for you. Just because I don't want additional responsibly in my job I shouldn't be made to live a pauper's life.

I like not worrying about other people's shit, customer service and that whole nonsense about the "Customer is always right" That is ONLY said in America... I am not greedy, my needs are taken care of for the most part, but I can't afford health care, while people that work at McDonald's in Denmark have free health care and school, umm they don't have nearly as large a tax base as we do, something is WRONG with that picture.

Nobody in America asked to have bases in 100+ countries around the world, hell 90% don't even know we have that many.

I voted NO on Prop 8 because I UNDERSTOOD what it was about. It was a TRICK QUESTION, half of the people didn't even understand what they were saying YES too, that's the lack of critical thinking in this country.

I could be more objective about my sources but I don't go around justifying having "manageable" wars, there's no such thing. I just want to find a nice girl that will fuck me on a regular basis, looks good while doing it and won't nag me to death, that isn't much to ask for but you know the solution to that problem isn't easily solved don't you????

Solving this is actually EASY just takes some WILL POWER...

DJ FourMoney

01-03-09, 01:00

What about an Illinois Governor trying to sell a US Senate seat?

This fool got caught, on tape, trying to sell Obamas senate seat.

I think this was a setup to try and throw Obama under the bus and it didn't work. I think Gov "F" Bomb will get ran out of office but ultimately be exonerated with little public fanfare.

Jelly Donut

01-03-09, 02:31

Did we need a war...?

What is going on DJ? I mean, I'm happy that you are amplifying my post from the middle of November, but a bit concerned since it indicates a level of boredom that may be unhealthy in the wake of the holidays. For some reason, I imagine this time of year being a bit hard on the average ISGer. I hope things are going well.

Also, I hope you forgive me for not dashing into arguments with you on Iraq, race, the problems of nuclear weapons proliferation, the stupidity of humanity. Although, I definately appreciate this holiday gift....

Just because I don't want additional responsibly in my job I shouldn't be made to live a pauper's life

It's like throwing a baby harp seal into the polar bear pen. It's wonderful bait. A true sacrifice for Eid al-Adha.

I appreciate the thought, but I've got no passion to bust on your thinking (one of the features of getting older, more conservative, is you really can live and let live and not generally give a fuck).

I just want to find a nice girl that will fuck me on a regular basis

Excellent. I wish you the best of luck with this resolution in the New Year!

Starchild2012

01-06-09, 09:44

Jews in America have alot of money and alot of political power when it comes to Israel

That is very true...The company i work for is owned by jews and they are filthy rich only problem i found was they are very stingy..i mean very..no matter how good you are or work hard...there is no raise and

They even seem to know i earn and burn my monthly salery and i cant leave them..i dont know..but they seem to build a web around a person and know the whole world or i have become psycologically damaged to learn to know how these guys make money and still keep the workforce to keep working for them :)

It is really complex to understand jews, isreal and palestine in every sphere :)

MJG Dogs

01-06-09, 17:38

Study history. the jews have been persecuted since the days of christ and before that. In europe they have been persecuted for 1000 years.

In today's world, the Europeans are mad because the jews fight back. While they do not attack Israel directly, they use Hamas, hezbollah and other groups to do their dirty word, as does Iran. The europeans give terrorist money...

In the past few days in europe, jews have been shot in Denmanrk, property torched in France, and Belgium and jews have been threatened throughout.

Of course the jews are Europe's secondary target. In the long run their main target is the USA.. same thing, they will not attack america, but will fund the attack...

That is what they are, I am a christian american, but If I were a jew, i would never live in strutting euroclown land

Clandestine782

01-06-09, 17:50

Why because Jews have America and largely Western Europe by the NUTZ...

Jews in America have alot of money and alot of political power when it comes to Israel they lead the charge on any foreign policy involving the Jewish State. They see the "threat" of Hammas as they are aligned with Iran complicating matters all the more.

Its a big mess and I stop trying to figure it out years ago. Its not like I wanna go their anyway, there millions of Jews in America, what advantage would there be to hooking up with some Jewish girl in Israel???? They are likely just as spoiled as the ones already here....
How many times do we have to hear this "Jews are controlling the world" line? Have you bothered to check your facts?

1. If you go to any university campus (and almost all of them are more heavily left wing), you will find Jews in all those same left wing organizations. Same thing with organizations like ACLU (a heavily Jewish organization). But the left wing is consistently very hostile toward Israel. So what does that mean? Being Jewish in the US is not necessarily to be in support of Israel. The right is more supportive of Israel, but Jews vote something like 90% Democrat (got this from a Thomas Sowell article). Think about that moist, pulsating asshole Noam Chomsky. He is always whining about Israel. And Norman Finklestein.

2. The US is ass backwards compared to whom/ what? Africans (ha ha ha-- those morons can't even set up HIV prevention programs)? Europeans (who have regulated themselves out of jobs and probably can't even defend themselves)? Chinese (who are determined that time is measured between one collapsing dynasty and another.... and that the forward progression of time-- as much as it ever progresses in China-- is from the conflict of one dead old man with the next)?

3. I'm sitting here looking at your misspelled posts. If most Americans are ignorant (you said something like this somewhere back along the line, but I don't have the time to invest in finding and posting the quote), and you can't even spell your posts correctly, what does that say about your intelligence? Are you on the same level as all other Americans or are you even worse off?

4. Are Jewish girls really that spoiled? Or do you just not have enough game to attract them? I get SO SICK of people always making that special case in which to wrap Anti-Semitism. My experience with black women are MUCH WORSE than with Jewish women. BY FAR. (And I am black. If I took the ratio of bad experiences with black shrews to those with Judge Judy type Jewish shrews, it would be something like 100:1)

Clandestine782

01-06-09, 17:52

MJG Dogs

01-06-09, 18:04

Think about it euroclowns. if you had stopped Hitler perhaps none of this would have happened. All you Neville Chamberlain types out there, wake up. It is happening again. The USA, along with a few other countries like Colombia, Argentina, Brasil, The Dominican republic and Australia are the only real safe havens for jews.

But then again you euros are so angry and full of rage, for you ruled the world until 1945, and then a nation of castoffs, rejects, immigrants outflanked you...
ha ha ha. It also bruns them inside that the USA, despite its current status could toy with Europe anytime it choses too. So could Russia, as it is doing now, by cutting off their natural gas supply. Rememeber europe is also an enemy of Russia's, not just israel and the USA

And how angry is europe now at Obama becuase he is smart he is not saying anything..They will be pissed when Obama does not throw Israel under the bus.Read the EU newspapers, especially in the UK, they are furious

Leeuwen

01-06-09, 18:39

The Jewish power base is much more prevalent in North America than in Europe, with the exception of a few countries Europeans are not as warm to Jews as Americans. In Germany its mostly the politicians who are warm to them, everyday people are another story.

Yet there are (obviously Jews) like MJG Dogs who can't get enough of this very dated topic. Nobody in Europe has genuine interest in debating Jews and their history, who likes them, who doesn't. People don't f*cking care. MJG Dogs' anti-Europe rage is overwhelming. I don't believe he has slightest idea of what's he's talking about. European ambivalence in Palestinian conflict is a result of general approach to troublemakers, and no sensible government jumps happily into a 60 years old conflict, where actually no part is truly interested in peace.

Think about it euroclowns. if you had stopped Hitler perhaps none of this would have happened. All you Neville Chamberlain types out there, wake up. It is happening again. The USA, along with a few other countries like Colombia, Argentina, Brasil, The Dominican republic and Australia are the only real safe havens for jews.
Well, then stay in your favourite countries, and don't visit Europe. Can't be that hard, can it? Or better, go to Israel and stay there. After all, Jews finally got a legitimate place to live and prosper, in Israel.

Doctor_Skank

01-06-09, 20:16

Jews = good. Fact.

Shoot missiles at me, I blow your ass up.

A culture that promotes and rewards intelligence, values the maintenance of their own culture while not comdemning others, has the balls to defend itself uncompromisingly, can laugh at itself without feeling insecure, welcomes people of any race or culture... etc. etc. What's not to admire?

Have I contributed significantly to this conversation?

CBGBConnisur

01-07-09, 03:49

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

MJG Dogs

01-07-09, 04:26

leeuwen- go put your brownshirt and leather boots back on, remember your hero rohm, the first leader of the brownshirts was a flaming queer like you are, and yes i do not care for the majority of you eur-o-[CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)-ons, comprende???

Warbucks

01-07-09, 05:06

http://business.inquirer.net/money/breakingnews/view/20090107-181885/US-tycoon-found-dead-in-apparent-suicide

US tycoon found dead in apparent suicide

Agence France-Presse
First Posted 10:10:00 01/07/2009

Filed Under: World Financial Crisis, Suicide, Personalities

Close this CHICAGO--The head of one of the largest US real estate auction houses was found dead of an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound, officials said Tuesday.

Steven Good was discovered parked in a forest preserve near Chicago on Monday morning, the Kane County Sheriff's Department said.

There was no note found in his red Jaguar indicating a motive and it was unclear whether his death was related to his work.

Good's death came hours before that of German billionaire Adolf Merckle, who threw himself under a train after he was brought to the brink of ruin by the financial crisis.

A French investment manager, Thierry de la Villehuchet, who lost more than a billion dollars in the alleged pyramid scheme of Wall Street titan Bernard Madoff killed himself last month.

Good was the chairman and chief executive of Chicago-based Sheldon Good & Company Auctions International.

The firm says it has sold over 40,000 properties at an aggregate total of over $9.5 billion since it was founded by Good's father in 1965.

Good, 52, was the driving force behind the firm's expansion and was involved in $4 billion in sales, according to a company biography.

Company president Alan Kravets hailed Good as "one of his industry's most brilliant minds and most successful entrepreneurs" and offered his condolences to Good's wife, children and father.

"It is testimony to Steve's leadership that Sheldon Good & Company remains well positioned for the future," Kravets said in a statement

George90

01-07-09, 19:53

... its rare for Asian women to westernize their appearance.

I don't know about the other stuff you wrote, but I do know about this. There is a THRIVING business in China regarding plastic surgery on women's eyes to make them look more Western and less Asian. For a few decades now, Chinese women have been 'fixing' their eyes. This has been commemted upon by the media and studied by academics who research self-image issues and race/beauty perception issues. The strong Chinese economy in recent years has afforded many more Chinese women to have this surgery.

I can't comment on breast implants or butt implants or other Asian countries besides China, but Chinese women frequently Westernize their eyes.

CBGBConnisur

01-07-09, 21:35

Are you referring to Bleroplasty? I have heard of it, but most Chinese tend to keep their Asian appearance. Some younger Japanese get into punk culture with purple hair and shit like that but for the most part they still look Asian. The whitening thing is big in South Asia, skin lightening advertisements are so common. Even there at the end of the day most of these people wind up looking only fair complexioned against other Indians not Westerners.

DJ FourMoney

01-08-09, 03:22

I was referring to Asians in Asia, and Asian people in Australia tend to stick to the old country's ways. Smell a white female when she has not showered for a while. I flew on Air France, which I will never do again, and the whole plain stunk like BO. Asian women tend to have milder body odors. I even know a Japanese guy who told me he does not care for Caucasian women for the fact that they get fat and they often have poor hygiene, would rather date other Asians, thats why not that many Asian men go after white women. I got an Asian girlfriend that holds down a full time job but still manages to make dinner. Every Caucasian woman I have had a relationship with would usually look a for a take out menu.

Granted I've only seen pictures of NZ and AU located Asians and they are influenced by Western culture maybe in dress, makeup and hair die. I know of the BO you speak of with French people, I know am GENERALIZING here....

You as well as myself highlight the lack of "domestic skills" with American women and I'm sure you'll find the same problems with British women and some Canadian women out of the countries that speak English firstly.

I can find a girl that can cook, but you have to weigh that vs a better looking girl that will take care of herself over a longer time period (and offers other benefits), where a girl from a more rural area where looks are almost secondary after your married tend to let themselves go and if they are raising children they have constant access to food where a once skinny girl becomes plump like a turkey.

Again shouldn't this be in the LTR section or something?? I guess the Opinion forum is basically another name for "Off Topic".

I don't know guys, its confusing at best and tiresome at the worst. I can fully understand the P4P scenario but I just happen to think, in the long run a LTR is cost effective, its just the matter of finding the right woman to fit your "economic model".

Jackson feel free to move the last couple of post to the right thread, thanks...

Doctor_Skank

01-09-09, 16:34

I think it safe to say that someone who makes over $100,000 a year does not have that much free time.I'm not butting into your argument at all, but I can confirm it is often quite the opposite. Unless you are a doctor, engineer, lawyer or somebody involved in tedious technical time-consuming work, it usually works the other way around. The more you make the more free time you do have.

Life ain't fair.

Jelly Donut

01-10-09, 17:11

Make of it what you will, the results have always benefited Israel.
Well, an objective observer might claim world events thus far appear to always benefit me (certainly far more than Israel), but that does not mean I'm running a vast and sinister conspiracy from my underground Bunker.

As far as most anyone knows.

Anyway, I think I understand your point, but just because history seems to have favored Israel recently...I can't imagine a reasonable person could envy Israel's overall strategic and historic situation. It's been around for 60 years and only two of it's neighbors have recognized it; "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." is a quote from the Iranian President, not just some chump on the streets of Isphan. So, while Israel might pull off an Entebbe or Osirak or play an essentially tactical situation well - it's not winning the big game. With luck, maybe 10 years down the road, Iraq might recognize it. Maybe. But the way I see it, the clock is running down -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2983719.ece

And, while this may all seem very remote to the average American, whenever I think about it I also reflect on how the First World War started and how much more connected the world seems to be today. Read the Homeland Security Threat Assessment for the years 2008-13. It's very depressing where this all seems to be going. It seems to me that we could wake up one day in the not distant future and live in a fundamentally worse way than we do today.

So, it leads to a kind of "carpe diem light" political philosophy down here in the Bunker - which I'm sure you will grasp for paradox "seize the day, but do it in moderation".

Otherwise, I would do Michelle Obama and I would do Beyonce and I have enough self-knowledge to say I would even fuck an ugly French aristocratic chick. Avec plaisir. I've screwed some damn ugly women; just thinking about it sends a chill up my arms. I blame biology, but still....what a pig.

Brian Moloney

01-10-09, 17:55

Well, an objective observer might claim world events thus far appear to always benefit me (certainly far more than Israel), but that does not mean I'm running a vast and sinister conspiracy from my underground Bunker.

As far as most anyone knows.

Anyway, I think I understand your point, but just because history seems to have favored Israel recently...I can't imagine a reasonable person could envy Israel's overall strategic and historic situation. It's been around for 60 years and only two of it's neighbors have recognized it; "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." is a quote from the Iranian President, not just some chump on the streets of Isphan. So, while Israel might pull off an Entebbe or Osirak or play an essentially tactical situation well - it's not winning the big game. With luck, maybe 10 years down the road, Iraq might recognize it. Maybe. But the way I see it, the clock is running down -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2983719.ece

And, while this may all seem very remote to the average American, whenever I think about it I also reflect on how the First World War started and how much more connected the world seems to be today. Read the Homeland Security Threat Assessment for the years 2008-13. It's very depressing where this all seems to be going. It seems to me that we could wake up one day in the not distant future and live in a fundamentally worse way than we do today.

So, it leads to a kind of "carpe diem light" political philosophy down here in the Bunker - which I'm sure you will grasp for paradox "seize the day, but do it in moderation".

Otherwise, I would do Michelle Obama and I would do Beyonce and I have enough self-knowledge to say I would even fuck an ugly French aristocratic chick. Avec plaisir. I've screwed some damn ugly women; just thinking about it sends a chill up my arms. I blame biology, but still....what a pig.Well today I woke up and read the News paper call the Vancouver Sun in Canada on the Internet. I am in Russia at this time. The report Obama and Oil so you all out there are wondering whats this about? Ok Oil is today $42. 23 cents a barrel when I left for Russia A gallon of gas Regular in Canada was $0. 70 cents a liter. Thats $2. 80 A gallon. A barrel of oil today is $40. 34. It is now $0. 95 cents atliter today. Which means it went up $0. 15 atliter over night so its now $3. 80 cents a gallon in Canada. Every body knows that we are in a sever recession thats NO news. Because of this economic MELT down theres not a big demand for oil. OK so the only bright spot was GAS prices when LOW gave people more, consumer spending, discesionary money to spend. Like going out for dinner buying clothes etc. Now that OIL prices are still LOW why are GAS prices at the PUMPS getting higher. That will definately cause a DEPRESSION. That was the only bright shinning thing going for the world. So now the OIL companies are really screwing the world. So Obama with all his powers and trying to stimulate the US Economy all his HARD work will be for nothing. High Prices at the pumps are STEALING money from the people. As far as I see it WE are all doom. No matter what Obama does the OIL companies (parasites) will fuck up all of Obamas hard efforts.

George90

01-11-09, 00:30

So, while Israel might pull off an Entebbe or Osirak or play an essentially tactical situation well - it's not winning the big game. I completely agree. I often wonder whether the Israelis and Americans really see and understand the big game or whether it is me who is on a different playing field seeing a different game. 'Cause I'll tell ya, very little of what we and the Israelis have done and are doing there makes any sense in the long run.

I have always asked myself, just how much oil does Israel have that we can afford to favor them so much over Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, U.A.E., Iraq, Iran, etc. Do we have an oil substitute coming out next year?

George90

01-11-09, 14:48

I bet when all the dust settles in another 20 years or so, the Chinese and the Asians are going to end up calling the shots on this planet.I won't bet with you on that because I fear you will win. I think you are correct with your statement.

I work in education. For several decades the US has 'privatized' education in that there are more and more for-profit schools and universities. Part of the reason for that is that state governments are cutting their education budgets and the federal government is cutting its transfers to state governments. The only viable way for educational insitutions to get funds to operate and grow is to beg for it from philanthropists or ask for it from investors.

Well, when the world economy goes into the tank as it has, and many wealthy individuals lose tens of millions to con artists like Bernie Madoff, the philanthropists' funds dry up. In addition, endowment funds have lost billions of dollars this year. Harvard University, with the world's largest private endowment, lost over 15% of its value in 2008. It was over 30 billion in 2006 and 2007. I think it is now around 25 billion, and the income generated from its endowment is almost nil because interest rates are so low now. Harvard announced that it was imposing a hiring freeze on non-faculty appointments, limiting the number of new faculty hires, and imposing limits on faculty raises.

When education gets privatized in terms of having a mission of maximizing shareholder wealth instead of a mission of maximizing student knowledge and ability, the insititutions start to 'market' or 'sell' education to students rather than educate students. The product then morphs into something for which students are willing to pay top dollar. I can tell you from (painful) experience that the product IS NOT knowledge and ability. It is a credential to a better job, regardless of whether or not that credential is backed up by solid capability. It is just like currency no longer being backed up by gold, but rather only by the confidence that currency holders put into the government that issued the currency. I feel that many US degrees are getting that shaky!

In other countries where the government still controls the higher education industry, like is China or Japan, the quality of the education is still very high. The problem there is that not enough of the population is getting that high quality education. Even here in the US, take a good look at the demographics of who is getting top degrees.

Americans are getting degrees that are not well backed up by capability. Asians take education very seriously and get degrees that are well backed up by capability. It may be less than 20 years before Asians call the shots in the world. It may be only as long as it takes for Baby-Boomers with high quality degrees to retire and be replaced by Gen-Xers with mediocre degrees.

CBGBConnisur

01-11-09, 16:59

Higher education in America in particular has become a joke, major universities are looking more and more like diploma mills than legitimate institutions of learning. A college education in the US is ridiculously overpriced compared to anywhere else. A new and disturbing trend in the US is the appearance of private for profit universities, there are even a couple of for profit medical schools operating in the US that take students that would not have the grades to make it into a normal non profit medical school, these diploma mills used to be confined to the Caribbean and Eastern Europe but now this money making mill phenomenon is coming to the US. Its also amazing to see how many underemployed university graduates are out there in the work force. Walk into a Whole Foods or a Starbucks and the employees are often ridiculously too educated to work in such a place. I met one woman who had a Phd who worked in Starbucks because she could only get a part time teaching job at a community college. I actually walked into one Whole Foods in NYC and was amazed that the cashier was speaking unbroken and clear English, and it became obvious that she was too overqualified to be bagging groceries.

Asian students generally take their education and their potential degree's earning power a lot more seriously than others. Its no surprise you see a disproportionately large number of Asians in Engineering and Medical related programs at universities, while locals BS around with Theater Arts and other fluff degrees.

I am pretty sure I would win that bet easily.

Admin

01-12-09, 05:43

Greetings Everyone,

I recently cleaned up this thread by deleting a number of reports focused on racial issues.

This action is in no way a reflection of the merits of any author's comments.

I am aware that the vast majority of references to racial issues are legitimate attempts to advise other fellow members about local racial issues and prejudices. However, past discussions in the Forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

Please do not engage in discussions about race or racism in the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.

This cleanup process is not perfect, and it's possible that I may have inadvertently deleted a few otherwise legitimate posts. If you find that your own report was also deleted, please don't take it personally.

Thanks,

Jackson

Freedick

01-12-09, 07:35

That is very true...The company i work for is owned by jews and they are filthy rich only problem i found was they are very stingy..i mean very..no matter how good you are or work hard...there is no raise and

They even seem to know i earn and burn my monthly salery and i cant leave them..i dont know..but they seem to build a web around a person and know the whole world or i have become psycologically damaged to learn to know how these guys make money and still keep the workforce to keep working for them :)

It is really complex to understand jews, isreal and palestine in every sphere :)

Very funny, has happened to me before.

Because of my line of work I switch jobs a lot and do a lot of interviews.

I have noticed it when working for companies that could be definitely be identified as Jewish (Jewish owner or overwhelmingly Jewish management).

It seems to me their art is thinking of knowing the human psyche. With them, it's all a psychological game, as long as you don't know you're playing it or as long as you are willing to play by their rules.

It pretty much happens this way: they take pride in overtly declaring that they are in it for the profit and nothing else, publishing yearly results in great fanfare, almost obliging you to acknowledge that fact.

In the beginning it strikes you as slightly bizarre, why overstating the obvious.

What silently derives from that is that to maximize the profit they crave, they must minimize costs like your salary and the money they spend on your equipment.

So pretty soon you start getting tired of all the pettiness and public penny pinching, and start thinking about leaving.

But then you realize something out of the ordinary. There seems to be a few people in the office who have had very well defined jobs for a long time with the company, which they also make sure to publicly state very often, who want to "become your friends".

After a while you realize they don't really do anything all day long, and they always find the time to come greet you with some ear candy "How are you today? How is your brother Jack?".

These fellows prodigiously remember names of people of your family they've never meet, and ask you about them every time.

After that they proceed to probe you about your colleagues, how you feel at work, a bunch of very personal questions. As soon as you have a question for them, they disappear to "complete that report".

So while becoming sourer and sourer about your company, and isolating yourself more and more from your friends and family, you come to depend more and more from these "work buddies" and their 5 minute daily ear candy, to the point of neglecting your career and not doing the one move to get back on track, quitting the company.

If you ever find the strength to stop that game, like seriously asking for a raise, or asking your "friends" why the project they're on has lasted 5 years already, NOBODY in the company will talk to you any longer.

Maybe this can explain the "web around you" you are feeling.

After having gone through this, one day I found myself interviewing for another Jewish company.

It was a job that needed very special and specific qualifications, and they had looked for a really long time. I was qualified for the job, all the interviewers were very pleased with me, and I was waiting for an offer to be extended.

At some point they got really stuck on my lack of a second personal reference.

Having being burned once, I started stalling as well, so the manager and I exchanged a few emails.

What I noticed is that when they interview, they will find a point of contention and wait for you to beg for the job.

So I answered, "since a second personal reference it's so important for you, I encourage you to keep looking for a person that will be able to provide you with that".

They never replied back. They did not even try to lower the initial salary, or accept another person as a reference. They wanted me to beg, period. I had busted that game, they did not want to play the "acknowledge my worth" game.

What poor sports.

Naturally, this is not intended to characterize Jews in any way, it is just my personal experience.

Freedick

01-12-09, 07:37

Erik The Viking

01-13-09, 15:51

Europe uses Hamas to attack Israel....Europe will fund an attack against America...

My friend, there are more sources of news than the Onion...You are completely inaccurate about Europe, its probably the most reliable ally America has against Islamic terror but unlike the US, Europeans will not blindly accept Israel's questionable policies. Europeans are not anti-Israel as Fox News and Murdoch would have you believe, unlike them we really are fair and balanced. Since 1967 Israel has been engaged in a brutal occupation of the West Bank and in Gaza, why do they occupy this land and bully its poorly armed inhabitants? The reason why Europeans do not support Israel in this matter is history, we are reminded of the Holocaust, when unarmed Jews were massacred by the Nazis, so when we the descendants of the same people terrorizing impoverished Palestinians its hypocrisy.

Starchild2012

01-13-09, 17:10

Very funny, has happened to me before.

wow...This is exactly what has been happening to me, I'm just stuck, no social life, cant leave the job, i just burned all my money on fun as i thought i would be promoted and so on. One mistake and im their slave for ever.

No defined role for me as you mentioned..i just do all sorts of work every day.

I dont have any energy left, i have been sucked dry ....hopefully, it will be over soon.

George90

01-24-09, 17:17

Some posts were deleted a few days back.

For those who are interested, there is a very good article in today's Wall Street Journal about Mid-East politics and America's role in it. The article is wide ranging in that it discusses how US involvement/influence in Israel, Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. over the past 40 years or so has helped shape the current state of affairs in that region. It is written by Andrew Higgins.

Gedanken

01-24-09, 17:58

You are completely inaccurate about Europe, its probably the most reliable ally America has against Islamic terror but unlike the US, Europeans will not blindly accept Israel's questionable policies. Europeans are not anti-Israel as Fox News and Murdoch would have you believe, unlike them we really are fair and balanced. Since 1967 Israel has been engaged in a brutal occupation of the West Bank and in Gaza, why do they occupy this land and bully its poorly armed inhabitants? The reason why Europeans do not support Israel in this matter is history, we are reminded of the Holocaust, when unarmed Jews were massacred by the Nazis, so when we the descendants of the same people terrorizing impoverished Palestinians its hypocrisy.Erik, I agree. Have you read Norwegian historian Hilde Waage's recent piece Postscript to Oslo: The Mystery of Norway's Missing Files in the Journal of Palestine Studies? It's quite interesting...
http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=10107&jid=1&href=fulltext

Had the missing documents been accessible at the time of writing, there seems no doubt that the findings of my report would have shown even more starkly the extent to which the Oslo process was conducted on Israel’s premises, with Norway acting as Israel’s helpful errand boy.I despair of the Palestinians ever getting their state. It's impossible all the while the US blindly supports Israel's crimes.

Starchild2012

01-26-09, 18:31

A video Israel dont want you to watch..it was taken down in youtube also

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12012

Brian Moloney

01-27-09, 18:06

A video Israel dont want you to watch..it was taken down in youtube also

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12012
Well when the Russians enrich IRANS Urainium and plutonium its only a matter of time before they NUKE Israel since Syria has now bought 6 billion dollars worth of Military hardware from Russia and Lebenon has now recieved 25 Mig Jets from Russia Its ONLY a matter of time that middle east will be on equal footing in the Military hard ware . Since the USA has ALWAYS supported Israel What CNN and FOX ABC NBC CBS and the USAs newspapers WILL NOT PRINT I read the MOSCOW TIMES and its ALL in there. The Russians NOW Know WHO was behind the Ossitea uprising. Ukraine USA and Israel. Hmmmm Go Rossiya go God bless Putin.

Warbucks

01-28-09, 05:46

Shit hitting home mom dukes even told me her company laying off. Only thing I could offer was to leave her dead beat (no job/money having mother fucker) husband and come live in one of my properties in PI.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view/20090128-185981/7-dead-in-suspected-LA-murder-suicide

7 dead in suspected LA murder-suicide

Agence France-Presse
First Posted 04:34:00 01/28/2009

Filed Under: Crime and Law and Justice, Murder, Suicide

Close this LOS ANGELES -- A father who may have recently been fired from his job shot dead his wife and five young children on Tuesday in a gruesome mass slaying, police in Los Angeles said.

A Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) spokeswoman said the family of seven was found dead at a home in the suburb of Wilmington south of Los Angeles.

Police believe the man killed his family and then committed suicide. The identities of the dead have not been released.

"Right now we're investigating if the father killed his wife and five kids and then turned the revolver on himself and killed himself," LAPD Deputy Chief Ken Garner told KFWB radio.

Garner said police were originally contacted by a local television station, which apparently received a telephone call and a fax from a man saying he was going to kill his family and himself.

Garner said the fax indicated the man may have recently lost his job. According to the radio station, the dead included an eight-year-old girl, five-year-old twin girls and two-year-old twin boys.

The Los Angeles region has seen several high-profile mass shootings in recent months.

In December, a gunman dressed as Santa Claus stormed into the home of his former in-laws on Christmas Eve and opened fire on his ex-wife and her family before setting the house alight.

Nine people were killed in the rampage before the gunman took his own life.

Last October, a 45-year-old man shot his wife, three children and mother-in-law before killing himself, reportedly because of financial woes.

DJ FourMoney

01-28-09, 06:08

Starchild2012

01-29-09, 17:06

Thats Sick news..Dont you guys in America have unemployment benifit..why not just live on benifit for some days and come back to work when things improve...

I think the motive is different ?

Warbucks

02-01-09, 22:49

I could say "certain" people fear being among the "Poor".

Sorry to hear about your moms, mine is basically retired and my stepfather retired from the City of LA almost 15 years ago.

Could I "rent" one of your PI properties? lol

DJ hell with the prices of houses in the US sinking like the Titanic I might be moving back to the States sooner then I think to take advantage of this situation.

All you guys still in the States should only be seeing dollars signs with stocks hanging at record low share prices.

Sure you can rent one if I have not sold both of them and moved back to the States which I am thinking of doing next year. Hey I thought you didn’t like Asian girls :confused:

Mmlouie

02-08-09, 02:40

Thats Sick news..Dont you guys in America have unemployment benifit..why not just live on benifit for some days and come back to work when things improve...

I think the motive is different ?@450 max a week and minus taxes, can you live on that in calif?

Chocha Monger

02-12-09, 00:20

DJ hell with the prices of houses in the US sinking like the Titanic I might be moving back to the States sooner then I think to take advantage of this situation.

All you guys still in the States should only be seeing dollars signs with stocks hanging at record low share prices.

Sure you can rent one if I have not sold both of them and moved back to the States which I am thinking of doing next year. Hey I thought you didn’t like Asian girls :confused:
I wish it were that simple Warbucks. The share prices are low for good reasons. From across the Pacific it may look like the US stock and housing markets are big wet pussies waiting to get fucked by someone with lots of war bucks but you should be very hesitant to return anytime in the near future. We may very well see things go lower. Don't hold all those war bucks in greenbacks either.

I'm a bit surprised to hear that you're willing to give up all that fine Third World pussy, property and the good life on the cheap in order to come back to the rat race and "free" pussy. I can't help but wonder how you'll make it pass the pussy withdrawal phase you'll experience upon your return.

Actually, you can still find some fine looking Asian pussy here in the US without too much trouble. One of the Asia mongers gave me a tip on how to crack the local market and I've been indulging ever since. Anyway, without regard to the pussy supply you still have to consider that you'll be returning to a country filled with desperate friends and relatives who have lost jobs or taken pay cuts. They'll be looking at Warbucks to save them with his fat pockets. These days you can hardly walk across the parking lot without being stopped by at least two beggars. I used to be under the impression that Third World countries had more beggars than the US, I am no longer sure of that.

DJ FourMoney

02-13-09, 06:23

Warbucks

02-13-09, 07:08

I wish it were that simple Warbucks. The share prices are low for good reasons. From across the Pacific it may look like the US stock and housing markets are big wet pussies waiting to get fucked by someone with lots of war bucks but you should be very hesitant to return anytime in the near future. We may very well see things go lower. Don't hold all those war bucks in greenbacks either.

I'm a bit surprised to hear that you're willing to give up all that fine Third World pussy, property and the good life on the cheap in order to come back to the rat race and "free" pussy. I can't help but wonder how you'll make it pass the pussy withdrawal phase you'll experience upon your return.

Actually, you can still find some fine looking Asian pussy here in the US without too much trouble. One of the Asia mongers gave me a tip on how to crack the local market and I've been indulging ever since. Anyway, without regard to the pussy supply you still have to consider that you'll be returning to a country filled with desperate friends and relatives who have lost jobs or taken pay cuts. They'll be looking at Warbucks to save them with his fat pockets. These days you can hardly walk across the parking lot without being stopped by at least two beggars. I used to be under the impression that Third World countries had more beggars than the US, I am no longer sure of that.

How can I put this? I am in my late 20s. I have no life here besides spending time with my LTR. This becomes boring after a while. The expat community consists of nothing but old chip on both shoulders white man. I am a relatively young black hip hopper. I miss my fam/homeboys. I miss riding in my classic with the music thumping. I miss the sub-culture that is hip hop. I miss the food. While my life here in the Philippines is good most of the pussy consists of prostitutes. This becomes boring and depressing after a while. Sometime I ask myself questions like is it this it? Prostitutes and sleep for the rest of your life?

Then there are the normal girls that are not hooking who in most cases look much better then the prostitutes. Most have the mind set of children. They are also broke for the most part and even if you managed to bag one it would be another form of prostitution. The second thing is they are hard to get rid of and have tendency to become financial burdens. Also I am in a relationship already so the time and effort it takes to cultivate "side" relationships I can’t "afford" it.

The rich girls would not be caught at a funeral with a black guy. There is the racism thing which I am not going to go into. Yes there is racism everywhere but when you are a black expat it takes on a whole new meaning.

Then there is the third eye factor. What I mean by this is in the Philippines everyone is looking to rip you off so you need a damn near third eye or clairvoyance to avoid it all. You let your guard down and whoose you are out of a certain amount of Pesos.

If I did move back to the States it would not be forever. Just until I spend up my youth and to take advantage of this housing market and stock prices but I would still hold some properties over here in PI as I am starting to believe it is a great country for OLD Men which at this point I am not.

As for my begging family I still get emails and request for money so I know it would be a lot worse if I was within driving distance.

A man cannot live on pussy alone.

All you guys out there one love and take care….

Fredje1961

02-13-09, 08:38

Wow, daddy W,

You seem tired. Don't give up, there's so many good things in life to be enjoyed, sometimes you just need to think properly and you can get a new way of seeing things.

May the force be with you!

Chocha Monger

02-13-09, 17:54

Starchild2012

02-15-09, 18:52

DW1..

I thought we would be tagging the PH...hehehe ;)

There is a very very serious threat to American economy in coming months.

Must read article before investing even a single penny.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12265

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/schoon/2009/0213.html

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2009/0213b.html

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/0213.html

Good Luck

Warbucks

02-18-09, 04:16

Warbucks,

After reading your concise but poignant narrative of your life in the Philippines I can now understand your desire to return to the USA. Prior to your response I couldn’t fathom how a youth with money in his pockets could languish in a veritable tropical paradise of cheap sex. It seems that every Eden is not without its serpent. In yours it’s the racism and scams. These blights are by no means absent at home but perhaps you have come to tolerate, perhaps even expect, them at home.

Tropical Paradise: Not Quite… VS States

The Philippines is not a tropical paradise. It is simply a place where there are not a lot of jobs, low wages and a lot of people want to live above their means and will try to do it by any means necessary. I mean when I was broke as hell a couple of years ago back in the States I acted accordingly. I didn’t have $1000 cell phone and other goodies as I see people in PI who live in squatter areas but have such toys. I am not oblivious to the lack of opportunities for the average Filipino but it’s not as bad here as per say other places I have visited... Afghanistan.

As for the cheap sex I don’t want to go into specifics (don’t like to discuss my financial situation as I am often of accused of being a braggart or insecure) but I can afford escorts back in USA if that’s what I want. The girlfriend experience might be missing but do we really want to snuggle and cuddle with prostitutes and I am getting tired of that whole scene.

I monger now just out of pure boredom. I often find myself in Dubai/Manila with nothing but time on my hands what is a guy to do? You go out….girls that are not bad looking come offering sex….you go on auto pilot.

In regards to the non WGS most have financial obligations to their families and will never hesitate to ask a new found “boyfriend” for assistance. I read one guy on here where he was giving $500 a month to a Filipina’s family with whom he was not married with. For me that is madness.

Racism and Scams In PI: VS In The States

As for the racism the stares, the strange comments made by people while you just minding your business. The looks at you then burst of laughter. Keep in mind I don’t dress strange or ridiculous compared to the “get ups” I see here. I am late 20s muscular built… so what could they be laughing at? Had a girl call me “uling” while I was at the beach last year? Translated into English it means charcoal. Keep in mind though I am dark I am not as dark as your average native African.

I have been in and out of PI for last 5 and I have never seen a Black guy with Filipina who was cute non-working girl and had her shit together. Like got her own money. In my experience most of the Black guys are courting poor (educational and financial wise) provincial (country side) girls or WGs. I met my ole lady in Japan back in 04 so things were different. She was independent.

Scams: Police looking for handouts, Security guards looking for handouts. Taxi drivers over-charging or driving around to up the fair. One night while out parting I had a little bit too much to drink and had my mind on only on the ass and tits sitting next to me in this taxi. Gave the driver a little too much Pesos. You think he said something? Hell no. It was the WG who told the taxi driver “What are you doing?”

I have airport officials come up to me and try to get money by doing me special favors and when you wave them away they look offended. Officials in the Philippines are not the type of people you want to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off.

I have never had any of the above happen to me in the States.

It is true one cannot subsist on pussy alone. In fact one can learn to live without it as I discovered after having to make do without for an entire year during military service. However, it is still a nice luxury when it is readily available at a bargain. Which brings me to the question of what will become of your LTR upon your return to the US?

Yes pussy on demand is nice to have. But when it comes from prostitutes day in and out is it really that great? My LTR? Is a goldmine in terms of trustworthiness, friendship and beauty. I wouldn’t dare leave her to fend for herself in PI but I am reluctant to get married again after being married in the States so….at this point don’t know?

While the Philippines may indeed be a country for old men, the US can hardly be considered a country for young men. Worthwhile jobs are in short supply and you need years of experience to get into one. Sometimes I wonder how they expect young workers to gain experience if no one wants to give them a chance in the first place. I wouldn’t expound on the pussy situation here at home because volumes of testimony already exist in the American Women thread.

Jobs, Retirement Etc....: PI VS States

Yes if I stay here in PI I can retire by 2012. By that time I would be in my early 30s. If I go back to the States I probably would have to work nother 15 years.

Pussy: In States

I would never date in the States again as I am sure a finding an American woman compatible with me would be extremely difficult given my tenure overseas.

I hope that your plans to exploit the stock and housing markets pay off but it’s good to see that you’re not putting all of your eggs into that basket. As you look towards home I look abroad for fortune. Pining for a taste of Americana has never been an issue for me while abroad. I’ve had to be away from family and friends for work over such a long period that it no longer bothers me to be away. However, in the beginning I felt much as you do now.

I would only like to buy a couple of properties while the price is low and just wait until they increase but given things are so fucked up in the States right now that can be 1 or 20 years from now.

Yeah home sickness sets in from time to time. Being surrounded by people who don’t look like you or understand you can take it its toll. I try to keep in touch with things like Vonage and yearly trips back but it’s not same. I moved here only because of a Visa situation not to monger. Funny how things work out.

At the end of it all the crux of the matter is whether or not you are happy. You certainly don’t seem happy in the Philippines, so coming home for a while may be what you need. Prolonged contact with foreign cultures and prostitutes has a way of burning some guys out. At your age you’re fortune to have had the exposure. Now you’re forming your own sense of balance.

Sometimes I am happy here. Sometimes I am not. Same as when I lived in the States. 2010 will be a critical year for me in terms of what I will decide to do…

Thanks CM for the post. You are one of the few guys on ISG no matter what thread I always enjoy your post

DW1..

I thought we would be tagging the PH...hehehe ;)

I will be around for while.

DJ FourMoney

02-18-09, 07:03

No place on earth it completely perfect and there's a whole host of things one has to consider.

America is unique in that there's no place like it.

There are more destitute places like you mentioned like most of the middle east, pussy is not enough to move there. In fact for men I think pussy is quite far down on the list of things needed to survive.

PH sounds like a less than ideal place if you aren't Asian or White. If you want Flip pussy, you can find it right here in Southern California quite easily, no need to venture to PH for it.

South America can't be any better as most of the Afro-South Americans are segregated to grungy parts of town usually in major cities, which shows how much empathy they have for those of African roots compared to those of European roots.

Even though this is not a the AW forum it does have to do with politics in the sense that (here's the tie in) what your local, state and federal governments are doing effects your quality of life.

Chocha brings up the point that I have known for years but wondered if anybody else noticed it and that's the reluctance of US corp (white collar) companies to give people entry level jobs that pay a decent wage (without a degree), forcing many people, even college grads into the Services industry where high productivity and low wages are the norm.

I'm drawn to places like Scandinavia; as far as I can tell Racism isn't overt for one thing, but generally the natives don't have that much of a problem with interracial relationships as there is a very small population of Africans and Americans.

A country like Germany is used to a US Military presents and most people are comfortable with Americans in Germany, especially cites located next to current and former bases.

These countries while some might say I'm looking for a "free ride" that is not the case at all. Most of these countries do not have the military power to invade another country thousands of miles away. The social "safety net" prevents wide spread poverty and has a well informed, educated and healthy population.

They are not without their own problems and they have a very high protectionism in their labor market, making it hard to crack unless you know somebody, marry a national, know the language and have some skill that can't be filled by a local which is a tactic many US based Multi-national companies use to keep English as the main language used on campus. I lack the college degree to qualify for most of those jobs, so I would automatically have to hustle, which for me means DJ'ing I would guess I'm not one for criminal activity.

That means living abroad is not really a reality, its more of a fantasy at this point and time.

But at least fooling with education, health care and other social issues are largely off-limits even to the most conservative political parties as they would find themselves quickly out of office by the time the elections came up again if they for example cut or stopped National Health Care.

Anyway I guess if I had to live someplace, it would be Western Europe, its expensive but its close enough to American Culture to be tolerable long term.

The key would be either finding those infatuated American culture or expats and you can find those people all over Western Europe, plus there's always Britain and flights back to the US are reasonable enough to return every year.

I can totally understand Daddy even if Ph is dirt cheap (and it is) low rent pussy is a turn-off long term and you have little in common with them.

Warbucks

04-06-09, 16:36

Doctor_Skank

04-06-09, 19:51

Chocha Monger

04-06-09, 20:11

It’s been three years since I lived in America and over a year since I set foot on its shores. But it’s still home…. What I want to ask what the fuck is up with all these mass shooting and killings? Anybody got any info on what is causing this? Could it be stress or overall dissatisfaction with the American way?
I think that it is an overall dissatisfaction with the American way of life. The New York shooting was basically about an immigrant coming to terms with the reality of having to learn English and coping with job loss. Our country exports pipe dreams to developing countries via Hollywood. When immigrants arrive to our shores, especially poorly educated ones, they expect to live the good life shown in the movies. Most of them are quickly disabused of their dreams of finding heaven on Earth. They quickly settle into a life of constant struggle with the language, customs, discrimination and low paying jobs. Some make it but others don't. In this case the one that didn't make it decided to take others with him instead of going home quietly or resigning himself to a life of American poverty.

The Alabama shooting was about a good ole boy gone bad. He decided to kill Ma and Pa because they'd done him wrong. After running an extermination service on his relations he decided to target random strangers for some reason. Job loss and financial issues appear to have been part of this individual's background also.

The father murdering his children was basically taking out his rage, provoked by his wife's cheating, on the children.

Anyway, murdering as many people as possible then committing suicide seems to be the way many are choosing to resolve their problems in this country. The concept isn't really new if you look at the last 15 years or so.

Warbucks

04-08-09, 04:02

5 dead in Alabama murder-suicide

Agence France-Presse
First Posted 08:10:00 04/08/2009

Filed Under: Murder, Suicide

MIAMI – A gunman shot dead his wife, daughter and two other people before killing himself, reports said Tuesday, the latest in a series of recent murder-suicides that have shocked America.

The body of Kevin Garner, 45, was found Tuesday near the home he formerly shared with his estranged wife in Morgan County, Alabama.

Law enforcement agents said Garner had earlier gunned down his wife, his daughter a sister and her nephew in the town of Greenhill, reports said.

The killings came ahead of a divorce hearing between Garner and his wife Tammy due to take place on Wednesday.

Garner's sister had been due to testify on behalf of his estranged wife at the hearing, the Times Daily newspaper reported on its website.

The United States has been rocked by several fatal mass shootings in the past three weeks.

Last weekend, a man in Washington state shot dead his five children before killing himself after discovering his wife was leaving him.

On Saturday, three police officers were killed by a 23-year-old man at his home in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

The attack came a day after a recently unemployed man stormed an immigrant services center where he had been learning English in Binghamton, New York and went on a murderous rampage, killing 13 people before taking his own life.

On March 29, a heavily armed man shot dead eight people at a North Carolina nursing home, days after six people were killed in a murder-suicide in an upscale neighborhood in northern California's Silicon Valley.

And on March 10, an unemployed man killed his mother, grandmother and eight others on a vicious shooting rampage in Alabama.

Orangevale Rob

04-09-09, 10:56

I think that it is an overall dissatisfaction with the American way of life. The New York shooting was basically about an immigrant coming to terms with the reality of having to learn English and coping with job loss. Our country exports pipe dreams to developing countries via Hollywood.Actually, if you read his entire letter, it is apparent that he was just totally batshit crazy.

He wasn't dissatisfied with American life. He was a Schizoid Psychopath.

Chocha Monger

06-02-09, 03:15

‘Black man did it’ hoax sparks outrage
Pa. mother's abduction claim latest in string of false accusations

By JESSE WASHINGTON
AP National Writer
updated 5:14 p.m. CT, Mon., June 1, 2009

PHILADELPHIA - It's an old lie, claiming that The Black Man Did It.

But it was trotted out again last week when a white mother from suburban Philadelphia said two black men snatched her and her 9-year-old daughter from their SUV and abducted them in the trunk of a black Cadillac.

Blacks across the country were outraged after Bonnie Sweeten was found in a luxury hotel at Disney World. Authorities quickly unraveled the hoax, but not before an Amber Alert, frantic searches and national news coverage that played into images of marauding black men.

Racial boundaries are slowly dissolving in America, with President Barack Obama the most obvious example. Yet Sweeten's story, plus the killing of a black New York City cop by a white officer days later, was a reminder that old ideas remain burned into many minds both black and white.

Furious and disgusted
Sweeten's story has provoked an outpouring of discussion among blacks, everywhere from doctor's offices to blogs. Syndicated radio host Warren Ballentine said his listeners are "furious, and they're disgusted. ... On a scale of one to 10, it's a 15."

"Their hope was that by Obama becoming president, the rest of America would take a look at black Americans and look at us for who we are and not what a stereotype is," he said.

The Black Man Did It lie last made news as recently as October, when a John McCain volunteer claimed a 6-foot-4 black man carved a B into her cheek (For Barack, evidently). Charles Stuart told it in 1989 after he killed his wife in Boston. Susan Smith told it when she drowned her sons in 1994 in South Carolina. Unknown numbers of black men were hanged for it back when lynching was a common practice.

And those are the ones we heard about. Law professor Katheryn Russell-Brown documents 67 racial hoaxes in the period between 1987 and 1996 in her book "The Color of Crime."

So after Sweeten and her daughter were found in Florida, with local newspapers reporting an investigation of whether the 38-year-old woman embezzled large sums of money, many blacks felt not only angry, but resigned and frustrated.

"Here we go again," thought Add Seymour, an Atlanta resident who works in public relations for Morehouse College.

'Lynch mob mentality'
"Not only are people going to use us as the stereotypical crime problem of America, but the problem is people believe it so easily," he said. "It's a lynch mob mentality out there. ... The first thing you think of when it comes to crime is a black man. It's crazy, and it's unfair."

It's also rooted in a confusing mixture of psychology, statistics and sociology, amplified by the media's tendency to focus on crimes against white women.

Seymour's blood starts to boil whenever people lock their car doors as he walks by — yet even blacks sometimes hit that button when black men are in the vicinity. "It's not just white people who act that way," Seymour said.

Common sense or racism?
Raqiyah Mays, a radio host on Kiss FM in New York City, drew a parallel between the Sweetney hoax and the killing of a black cop last week who was shot by a white policeman. The black officer was running after a suspect, his gun drawn.

"How many times have you seen a black man running down the street and thought something negative? As opposed to seeing a white guy running down the street and you think he's running late?" said Mays, who is black. "A lot of us are guilty of it because that's the way society has been set up."

One easy explanation is that black men are convicted of crimes at much higher rates than any other group. So was falling for Sweeten's lie racism, or common sense? And does Sweeten's blond hair have anything to do with the amount of media coverage her story received?

Media coverage questioned
New York Times columnist Bob Herbert recently wrote about the difference in coverage between the killing of a white female college student in Connecticut and the approximately three dozen Chicago public school students, mostly black, who have been killed this school year. He recalled an incident from early in his career, at another newspaper, when he heard an editor pondering the story of a dead child ask, "What color is that baby?"

"Editors may not be asking, `What color is that victim?' But, on some level, they're still thinking it," Herbert wrote.

Even without race, Sweeten's story was both sensational and nonsensical. It began when she called police, allegedly from a trunk, and said men had rear-ended her Yukon Denali at a busy suburban intersection, then abducted her and her daughter in broad daylight.

No one had seen it happen, and Sweeten somehow still had her cell phone. Black men also are scarce in Bucks County, which is 92 percent white and 4 percent black.

Authorities discovered that Sweeten had made the call from miles away, in downtown Philadelphia. Their attention turned to the airport, and Sweeten was soon found. She is free on $1 million bail, facing misdemeanor charges of identity theft and false reporting.

During a news conference after the hoax was exposed, Bucks County District Attorney Michelle Henry explained the charge of filing a false police report.

"It's a terrifying thing," she said, "for a community to hear that two black men in a black Cadillac grabbed a woman and her daughter."

Warbucks

07-18-09, 04:24

1. No, everything is not about money;however, there is a positive correlation between money, wealth, power, and beautiful women.

For most men, money is the easiest thing to get to attract hot women.

In the 2nd and 3rd world, the trappings of wealth make up about 85%-100% of the equation; in the first world, between 30%-80% of the equation. It's not so much about the Range Rover but about financial stability and security.

To argue the contrary is asinine and unfruitful.

2. Not to be too snoobish, but, all college degrees are not the same--just as all boats are not the same. You could have a yaht and I could have a dinghy. We both have boats (or ships) but they are not of comparable quality.

The military draws a disportionate number of its officers from the lower middle class folk of the South who do not attend elite schools. I am not knocking anyone, I am just stating a fact. I take my hat off to those who serve and thank them for their service.

I think that all men who are fit and not COs should serve.

3. The vast majority of KBR type contracctors in war zones could not have a profesional career in the States or the developed world. KBR mostly looks for warm bodies. The quality of people is fairly low.

Military experience is not necessary to work for a KBR type firm--a pulse and non-felonious record is.

Most middle and upper class Americans will not work for and live under the conditions that KBR type people do in conflict zones. Some should, as one can make some major bank, but most won't.

The few that do are mostly adventerists, wonderlusts, or want to get the fuck away from their wives.

4. Yes, one can be a lower class dirtbag with money. One can also be a well edcuated and rich person with little class, but the former is more prevalent than the latter. A prime example that I recently observed was in Bishkek--KBR type Americans making 68k-80k a year who were uneducated, unsophisticated, and classless who turned off the local population en masse.

Not all of these guys are dirtbags, but too many of them are.
http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-college+graduate

Average College Graduate Salaries

In USD as of Jul 17, 2009
college graduate
$46,000

Compare college graduate Salaries

Job Title, Keywords

City, State or ZipAverage College Graduate Salaries
The average salary for college graduate jobs is $46,000. Average college graduate salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits.

This salary was calculated using the average salary for all jobs with the term "college graduate" anywhere in the job listing.

Average Salary of Jobs with Related Titles
In USD as of Jul 17, 2009

$65,000
budget analyst
$55,000
human resources specialist
$56,000
contract specialist
$55,000
secretary
$33,000
accountant
$47,000
usar unit administrator
$35,000
management analyst
$58,000
it specialist
$66,000
program analyst
$64,000
civil engineer
$58,000
mission support specialist
$48,000

Conflict Jobs: Average Salaries based on my four years around a conflict. From many friends and people I know involved with these jobs.

KBR: $80,000
Dynacorp: $120,0000
Aecom: $120,000
Mantech: $180,000
MPRI: $200,000

So you see the private (college degree required) professional sector pales in comparison to the average contracting job.

I think most people would like to make the most money possible. So you can buy Porsches and other deprecating bull to impress some broad :confused:

I got friends who finished college and now are working in the States they have decent jobs (some have two jobs) but their lives suck. No trips abroad no real-estate possessions etc…

Now with these contracting jobs, job security is an issue but in this economic climate the professional sector also has been decimated.

One guy would have you believe all you need is a pulse to land one of these jobs. That is true if you plan to work in a kitchen or cleaning bathrooms. The reality is though most of the guys that contract had professional gigs back in their own countries, IT, HR, Mechanics, Logistics, HVAC, Estimators etc….. And they just took the contracting jobs because of the bump in salary.

Conflict Zones Conditions: No Working Over Here Is Not For Pussies

Also working in a conflict zone does not mean you are low class or a loser.

The conditions: Free meals all day. 24 hour free access to gyms. Free housing. (Climated control containers or "wooden huts" which you share with 1-8 others) Dust, heat, cold and boredom.

Danger? Depends on exactly where in the conflict country you are located. All bases and all areas are not created equal.

dirtbag

One entry found.

Main Entry: dirt·bag
Pronunciation: \ˈdərt-ˌbag\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1967
slang : a dirty, unkempt, or contemptible person

A Dirt bag:

Now what I would call a dirt bag is the guy who has a a great deal of money in the bank or a great job but never fails to kick down the less fortunate or others he “feels” is beneath him. Makes false comments or comments about things he knows nothing about or insults members of a forum for no reason.

ThatGuy865

07-18-09, 15:35

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-college+graduate

Conflict Jobs: Average Salaries based on my four years around a conflict. From many friends and people I know involved with these jobs.

KBR: $80,000
Dynacorp: $120,0000
Aecom: $120,000
Mantech: $180,000
MPRI: $200,000.Illogic,

You are basing Averages vs Individual salaries. I can easily find a lot of IT workers who would say they make over 100K. Especially in cities like LA and NY.

You are comparing a Government pure survey against YOUR OWN small sampling. You have no LARGE scale knowledge of contract salaries. You only know the salary where you were located or your small sampling of friends.

The Government Survey would include pay in areas like in small rural cities like in North and south Dakota, Wyoming, Iowa where anyone making 20K can live good. So if a college grad made 35K. He would be considered almost wealthy for those communities. So He is getting paid good for where he lives. Which brings down the national avgs.

Do you know what these companies pay contractors for the same job in every place. So your comparisons are not fair.

Warbucks

07-19-09, 08:13

Illogic,

You are basing Averages vs Individual salaries. I can easily find a lot of IT workers who would say they make over 100K. Especially in cities like LA and NY.

You are comparing a Government pure survey against YOUR OWN small sampling. You have no LARGE scale knowledge of contract salaries. You only know the salary where you were located or your small sampling of friends.

The Government Survey would include pay in areas like in small rural cities like in North and south Dakota, Wyoming, Iowa where anyone making 20K can live good. So if a college grad made 35K. He would be considered almost wealthy for those communities. So He is getting paid good for where he lives. Which brings down the national avgs.

Do you know what these companies pay contractors for the same job in every place. So your comparisons are not fair.

These are not invidividals salaries. The lowest contractor worker makes about $60K. The highest about $200K do the math.

Once again while life over there is not great being poor in America is not so great either.

ThatGuy865

07-20-09, 00:08

These are not invidividals salaries. The lowest contractor worker makes about $60K. The highest about $200K do the math.

Once again while life over there is not great being poor in America is not so great either.Its all about how you want to live your life ... and just because you don't contract overseas doesn't mean the other alternative is being poor in America. Even with that, there are a lot of poor people, who still are quite happy. Not everyone judges their happiness by material wealth.

There are a lot of people who feel as long as they can put food in the stomach, have a roof over their head and the love of family and friends they wouldn't trade it for anything.

The places where people live the longest are not the most wealthest of locations. But where the people surrounded themselves with family and friends and work throughout their lives.

Its often the wealthest of people who are the most isolated, with the fewest of true friends.

Warbucks

07-20-09, 04:42

and just because you don't contract overseas doesn't mean the other alternative is being poor in America.
For some guys not contracting the alternative is being poor. That Blue collar market is drying up in America. College degrees are becoming more and more of a necessity to make a decent living. Now here is the problem some people just don’t have the brain power to succeed in college. So what will be left for them? To stay under the yolk of the aristocratic American society until they die?

Before I started contracting I had nothing. Now I own a modest home and luxury condo. I have walked around downtown Tokyo with diamonds on shinning like the sun getting smiled at by cute Japanese girls. I have stayed in 5 star hotels in various countries. Flew first class on various airlines. To some who parents were able to pass them down an education or money this stuff is not a big deal but for a sad few of us these things may have never been possible.

Even with that, there are a lot of poor people, who still are quite happy. Not everyone judges their happiness by material wealth.
I was poor all my life I know how that shit feels to need shit not want but “need” but can’t get it because you don’t have the financial means. Besides being maimed my only fear is being poor again.

There are a lot of people who feel as long as they can put food in the stomach, have a roof over their head and the love of family and friends they wouldn't trade it for anything.
Fuck a friend and as for family well… I think this overrated.

Its often the wealthest of people who are the most isolated, with the fewest of true friends.
I guess this is true.

Chocha Monger

07-20-09, 06:01

ThatGuy865

07-20-09, 10:06

Illogic,

What you and Dirk are saying is hard to accept for a lot of people. Friends and family is nice to have. But in America if it isn't about money then it don't mean shit!

If you have money you'll always have friends but not the other way around. I wish things were different but that's reality.That is utter nonsense. If there is one thing that brings people together is poverty. The more money you have the less friends you have. You go to any poor neighborhood, everyone knows everyone. Neighbors are almost like families. Now take the reverse. Go to a wealthy neighborhood, next door neighbors won't know the first thing about each other outside of what they look like. There is no relationship between them. Maybe the kids. But definitely not the adults.

Yeah the media hypes wealth, so people are brainwashed to chase it. But what most people come to realize as they acquire it. All that materialism doesn't mean a dam thing, if you don't have friends and people to share your life.

Illogic. If walking around with diamonds having people gawk at you is what turns you on. Well so be it. But I think as you get older and wiser, you will come to learn that all that doesn't mean nothing. So you stay in 5 star hotels and others may stay in holiday Inn. They both have beds and TVs. So your sheet had a higher thread count. Whippy do. You've been caught up in the hype of materialism and some day you might realize it ain't all that. For every sad poor person, there is a equally sad rich person. Its just not as obvious to see.

I'm not trying to start an arguement. But just pointing out another point of view.

You say you don't need friends. Well I know plenty of people who wouldn't want to have all you have if it meant having to leave their friends. Especially to live in a foreign country isolated, regardless whether it was a gated community with all the upscale ammenities. For some have the feeling of that show "Cheers" walking into a bar where everyone knows your name, is a feeling that a lot of people cherish.

As I said before obviously no one wants to be starving. But once you have the basic needs, food, clothing, shelter. You basic vehicle to get around. The rest is just about trying to "show boat" and boosting ones self esteem thru materialism.

Goga Fung

07-24-09, 23:26

That is utter nonsense. If there is one thing that brings people together is poverty. The more money you have the less friends you have. You go to any poor neighborhood, everyone knows everyone. Neighbors are almost like families. Now take the reverse. Go to a wealthy neighborhood, next door neighbors won't know the first thing about each other outside of what they look like. There is no relationship between them. Maybe the kids. But definitely not the adults.

Yeah the media hypes wealth, so people are brainwashed to chase it. But what most people come to realize as they acquire it. All that materialism doesn't mean a dam thing, if you don't have friends and people to share your life.

Illogic. If walking around with diamonds having people gawk at you is what turns you on. Well so be it. But I think as you get older and wiser, you will come to learn that all that doesn't mean nothing. So you stay in 5 star hotels and others may stay in holiday Inn. They both have beds and TVs. So your sheet had a higher thread count. Whippy do. You've been caught up in the hype of materialism and some day you might realize it ain't all that. For every sad poor person, there is a equally sad rich person. Its just not as obvious to see.

I'm not trying to start an arguement. But just pointing out another point of view.

You say you don't need friends. Well I know plenty of people who wouldn't want to have all you have if it meant having to leave their friends. Especially to live in a foreign country isolated, regardless whether it was a gated community with all the upscale ammenities. For some have the feeling of that show "Cheers" walking into a bar where everyone knows your name, is a feeling that a lot of people cherish.

As I said before obviously no one wants to be starving. But once you have the basic needs, food, clothing, shelter. You basic vehicle to get around. The rest is just about trying to "show boat" and boosting ones self esteem thru materialism.

Thaguy, here I agree with you 100%

I also don't know what is the actual advantage walking around with diamonds. Most people would not care, some will envy or hate this person, and some will wanna have piece of it. But nobody will love more him for that for sure. Unless he shares the diamonds:)

One millionaire friend in Russia when got married, he immediately acquired a bunch of new "loving relatives and friends". After one year they finally pissed him off enough, one even stole from him 10K, so the couple ended all relationship with the wife's relatives. Even she had to end her relationship with her farther and mother... It's good to be wealthy, but not that simple sometimes.

You mentioned that in wealthier neighborhoods people do not know each other. In another forum you were wondering why people move to 3rd World countries - one of the reason people are more social there. In my place in USA I have no idea about my neighbors except one, simply because he is foreign. And we can drink, get drunk and talk about anything freely. I told him a lot about this website and what people do here, it looks like I'm taking him to Brazil soon.

All that materialism doesn't mean a dam thing, if you don't have friends and people to share your life.I can't agree more!

Warbucks

07-25-09, 17:07

Yeah the media hypes wealth, so people are brainwashed to chase it. But what most people come to realize as they acquire it. All that materialism doesn't mean a dam thing, if you don't have friends and people to share your life.
Trust me I am better off without the dysfunctional family and pseudo friends I grew up with. I can’t understand people who are grown but still want to live around mom and pops . What do these guys go over and put their heads on their parents lap still?

Illogic. If walking around with diamonds having people gawk at you is what turns you on. Well so be it.
When you’re poor all your life money and jewelry does turn you on when you first get it. In the Ghetto where I grew up at the guy with the gold chain was the man and if you had diamonds real diamonds you were from another planet. It’s a showing of wealth and prosperity. It’s in-bred. It’s been over four years now since I have started making decent money so I am use to it now. I am not as boisterous as I was before.

But I think as you get older and wiser, you will come to learn that all that doesn't mean nothing. So you stay in 5 star hotels and others may stay in holiday Inn. They both have beds and TVs. So your sheet had a higher thread count. Whippy do.
Not quite. Have you have ever stayed in the flea bag hotels in the Philippines than stayed in a 5 star. Oh no they are not created equal.

You've been caught up in the hype of materialism and some day you might realize it ain't all that. For every sad poor person, there is a equally sad rich person. Its just not as obvious to see.
Working in the ME all these years I have finally realized money is not everything.

You say you don't need friends. Well I know plenty of people who wouldn't want to have all you have if it meant having to leave their friends. Especially to live in a foreign country isolated, regardless whether it was a gated community with all the upscale ammenities. For some have the feeling of that show "Cheers" walking into a bar where everyone knows your name, is a feeling that a lot of people cherish.
Again for me I didn’t have that positive influence of friends or family. To be honest TG I am really not a people person. I have read Machiavelli's book (The Prince) and his thoughts on human behavior still hold true to this day. People are generally untrustworthy and will turn on you at the drop of hat so what’s the point of having them in your circle.

As I said before obviously no one wants to be starving. But once you have the basic needs, food, clothing, shelter. You basic vehicle to get around. The rest is just about trying to "show boat" and boosting ones self esteem thru materialism.
So you are content with just living average, just getting by? Fuck that. To each his own.

Thaguy, here I agree with you 100%
I also don't know what is the actual advantage walking around with diamonds. Most people would not care, some will envy or hate this person, and some will wanna have piece of it. But nobody will love more him for that for sure.
How do you know? I had many people compliment me on my jewelry from Dubai to Tokyo. People like to invest in people who invest in themselves.

Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life, and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you.

And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.- Niccolò Machiavelli

Brian Moloney

07-25-09, 17:52

Trust me I am better off without the dysfunctional family and pseudo friends I grew up with. I can’t understand people who are grown but still want to live around mom and pops . What do these guys go over and put their heads on their parents lap still?

When you’re poor all your life money and jewelry does turn you on when you first get it. In the Ghetto where I grew up at the guy with the gold chain was the man and if you had diamonds real diamonds you were from another planet. It’s a showing of wealth and prosperity. It’s in-bred. It’s been over four years now since I have started making decent money so I am use to it now. I am not as boisterous as I was before.

Not quite. Have you have ever stayed in the flea bag hotels in the Philippines than stayed in a 5 star. Oh no they are not created equal.

Working in the ME all these years I have finally realized money is not everything.

Again for me I didn’t have that positive influence of friends or family. To be honest TG I am really not a people person. I have read Machiavelli book (The Prince) and his thoughts on human behavior still hold true to this day. People are generally untrustworthy and will turn on you at the drop of hat so what’s the point of having them in your circle.

So you are content with just living average, just getting by? Fuck that. To each his own.

How do you know? I had many people compliment me on my jewelry from Dubai to Tokyo. People like to invest in people who invest in themselves.
I to grew up poor both parents immigrants Mom could not speak English. Unforotunately we didnt know about the social system in Canada so we had it tough (fry dough 3 days a week). I LOVE giving money away in poor provincial towns in Rossiya to poor people. I probably give 70% of my money away. Blake is always ANGRY at me for doing this. Because I have easy access to money it doesnt mean a WHOLE lot to me. I definately dont wear BLING lots of jewlery. To me it expresses LOOK at me I WANT to be a some body I want attention. Christ thats the last thing I fiucking need. Besides I feel better KNOWING that the donation I made 20K in Modorvia for a tractor to a poor farmer, (3 beautifull young daughters) makes me FEEL better than buying a stupid flashy BLING to put around my neck. To each his own. The only passion I have is buying Tony Lama cowboy boots I have a great collection. In Rossiya even that stands out not many people wear cowboy boots. Yes I love my cowboy boots and chewing tobacco and listening to Garth Brooks life is great.

DirkDingy

08-08-09, 16:33

I to grew up poor both parents immigrants Mom could not speak English. .

apparently english ain't your forte either:)

Warbucks

08-28-09, 07:21

http://www.cnn.com/2009/crime/08/27/tennessee.john.school/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

john schools' try to change attitudes about paid sexstory highlights

•experts say about 1 million to 2 million prostitutes work in the united states

•about 50 communities have programs that focus on deterring johns

•nashville's program includes a speech from a former prostitute

•the internet is making it easier for people to buy prostitutes, experts say
updated 12:10 p.m. edt, thu august 27, 2009next article in crime »
readmapby stephanie chen
cnn

nashville, tennessee (cnn) -- the accused came from all walks of life: retirees, dads and twentysomethings. an engineer, a business owner and an auto worker. a man in a wheelchair. men in need of spanish or farsi translators.

brett beasley, with nashville's health department, educates men arrested for trying to buy sex about stds.

1 of 2 about 40 men somberly entered a classroom on a recent saturday morning. about half of them wore shiny wedding bands.

all had tried to buy a prostitute's services and were caught by police. it was their first offense, and a county court referred them to a one-day program called the john school. it's a program run by volunteers and city officials in conjunction with magdalene house, a nonprofit that works to get prostitutes off the streets.

"prostitution doesn't discriminate," said kenny baker, a cognitive behavioral therapist who is the program's director. "most of these men don't have a prior criminal history, so our goal is to help these folks understand why they put themselves in a bad position, to prevent it from happening again."

set in a church in nashville, tennessee, the john school is led by former prostitutes, health experts, psychologists and law enforcement officers who talk to -- and at times berate -- the men about the risks of hiring a prostitute.

prostitution is based on the law of supply and demand. the thinking is: women won't stop selling sex until men stop buying.

so nashville and a growing number of cities are shifting their focus from locking up suppliers to educating buyers. across the country, about 50 communities are using john schools. atlanta, georgia, and baltimore, maryland, are among dozens more cities that plan to launch similar programs by the end of the year. see where the john schools are »

"it will make them [offenders] see that this is not a victimless crime, and they are contributing to the exploitation of women," said stephanie davis, policy adviser on women's issues at the mayor's office in atlanta. "it's hurting them, the man, and it's hurting their families and its hurting the community."

experts add that easy accessibility to prostitutes and pornography on the internet are feeding the problem.

in most communities, prostitution has been a one-sided battle focused on the women who offer sex. their customers, when they are arrested, are usually cited for a misdemeanor and fined.

by comparison, prostitutes are often charged with more severe sentences and jailed for months, depending on the offense.

but in nashville, the johns' faces are shown on a police web site.

for decades, nashville battled prostitution by arresting women on the streets and through stings. still, the problem persisted, irritating business owners and residents.

in the early 1990s, nashville's mayor helped launch the john school with the help of the magdalene house, public defenders, prosecutors and police officers. nashville became one of the first major cities in the u.s. to focus on the customers, predominantly men.

only first-time offenders who solicit an adult are eligible for john school. johns who pick up minors are not eligible and face much tougher sentences.

"if you get caught again and you get me, i will guarantee to put you in jail," warned antoinette welch, a local prosecutor, in speaking to the men in the class. "i've had men cry to me that they will lose their jobs or their wives, but you're all grown up and you make your own decisions."

the men listened carefully as welch talked about their records; many had not yet told their wives or significant others about their arrest.

if the john pleads guilty, pays a $250 fee and completes the course without re-offending, the charge can be dismissed after a year. the money paid by the john goes to magdalene house; the program doesn't cost taxpayers any money. john school models in other communities may differ.

a woman who called herself alexis, a 35-year-old former prostitute with dark hair and bright blue eyes, spoke to the men as the class came to an end. four years ago, she left the streets and now works at a factory.

by the age of 10, alexis had learned to barter with sex with her stepfather. in her 20s, she found herself hooked on drugs and selling her body. she was arrested more than 80 times. she was hospitalized after someone shot her on the job.

as she told her story, the men were silent. a few blushed, while others stared at the floor.

"these gentlemen are no different than i was on the streets," she said. "i think everyone has to look at the void they are trying to fill."

one john, a father of two with salt-and-pepper hair, found himself near tears after alexis spoke. in july, he tried to pick up a prostitute through craigslist. he said he was depressed and having problems with his wife.

"i'm so embarrassed," he said. "these girls are somebody's daughters. i have a daughter."

some evidence suggests that john schools are working. a study released in 2008 by abt associates inc. for the federal government looked at the john school program in san francisco, california. it's one of the largest programs in the country; more than 7,000 johns have attended since 1995.

according to the study, the re-arrest rate fell sharply after the school was launched, and stayed more than 30 percent lower for 10 years afterward.

but critics call john school a slap on the wrist. on saturday, one john abandoned the classroom.

carol leigh, a member of the sex workers outreach project, a group that promotes legalizing prostitution in california, said she doesn't believe the program is an effective deterrent. last year, she helped advocate on behalf of a law known as proposition k that would legalize prostitution in san fransisco. the proposal was rejected by the city.

"john school doesn't do that much," said leigh, who has worked as a prostitute. "the reality is they aren't spending that much time on the johns and they will just go to other venues. this also doesn't target the violent offenders who are the real problem."

melissa farley, head of the nonprofit group prostitution research and education in san fransisco, believes johns deserve stronger punishment like longer prison sentences.

a recent study she conducted among johns in chicago, illinois, found that 41 percent of them said john school would deter them from buying sex, compared with 92 percent who said being placed on a sex offender registry would scare them from re-offending.

nashville officials said they haven't tracked recidivism rates in their city, but the school's program director said it's probably deterring a third of the offenders in each class.

at least one college educated, 47-year-old john's attitude appeared to change on a recent saturday.

after class he wrote, "there is no good part. i would rather be with my wife. this was quick but it wasn't worth it."

Gentleman Travel

08-28-09, 15:28

nashville, tennessee (cnn) -- the accused came from all walks of life: retirees, dads and twentysomethings. an engineer, a business owner and an auto worker....
"prostitution doesn't discriminate," said kenny baker, a cognitive behavioral therapist who is the program's director. "most of these men don't have a prior criminal history, so our goal is to help these folks understand why they put themselves in a bad position, to prevent it from happening again."

set in a church in nashville, tennessee, the john school is led by former prostitutes, health experts, psychologists and law enforcement officers who talk to -- and at times berate -- the men about the risks of hiring a prostitute.
"most of these men don't have a prior criminal history..."

no kidding? and they shouldn't have one now either!
these "john school" stories always disgust me.
they are so biased and treat these guys like dangerous sex offenders.
when in fact most are just out for a bit of fun and got on the wrong side of stupid laws.
so these guys have to sit there and be preached to by a bunch of moral crusaders,
simply to avoid being stigmatized for something that millions of others get away with.

a recent study she conducted among johns in chicago, illinois, found that 41 percent of them said john school would deter them from buying sex, compared with 92 percent who said being placed on a sex offender registry would scare them from re-offending..
sure, and cutting off their penises or stoning them in a public square would be a greater deterrent still - but is it just? put them on a list with serial [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) and child molesters? what on earth does their "crime" have to do with other sex offenders? yet i hear a lot about this in different jurisdictions, including canada - publicizing "johns" with real sex offenders. that would be a far greater crime than anything the hapless john has done!

after class he wrote, "there is no good part. i would rather be with my wife. this was quick but it wasn't worth it." so, there are three people involved in this "crime".... maybe the wife should be sent to sex school so she can learn why and how to keep her man satisfied at home?

Opebo

09-25-09, 11:47

Its doing fine, Marak. True, it is frustrating that it is just another center-right corporation-and-rich-serving oligarchy, but what can we expect? At least it isn't the extreme-right theocracy which came before.

Starchild2012

09-29-09, 03:11

Guys URGENT info..

Please get as much info about David icke, it is very veryimportant...Obama, bush, political leaders, co-corporation, religion on planet earth is a giant compartmentalized pyramid to control mankind.

Obama will destroy America, he serves reptilian gods..he is not what you think he is....

read also about alex jones

www.davidicke.com

all these political discussion is one hell of a cocoon devilish system. there is no point in talking unless we know who is behind it.

Chocha Monger

09-29-09, 03:53

Starchild2012

09-29-09, 17:26

Born Loser:

I certainly hope that you don't seriously believe that crap. I mean really, reptilian gods... ROTFLMAO!

Now here is some more plausible information that involves the future of your home country and the world. The British haven't finished with India they still have plans for it and a number of other countries. Learn about it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbuoH1g_jYw&feature=related

CM...I respect your opinion and what you saying is 10000% right, i only want you to look beyond what we see and read.....the world war 3 is much much much bigger scheme than what you and me can perceive.

British, Americans, Chinese, Indians are mere pawns in the hands of greater powers. They don't care who dies they just want blood and fear on this planet earth.

Just do your own research and figure out who are these people behind the scene.

Please don't believe in any religion, all science is false, everything is one big con game.

Our planet is one big black magic hoax, trust no one, believe no one in the coming times.

We have to go beyond the physical limitations to perceive what these guys are upto.

Whatever you would say i would totally agree, i would just want you to go beyond the point on what we would agree ..no conflict, non-violence is the answer in the coming fight...these guys want world war 3.

Its time to go beyond..and come out of the con game. the time is slowly coming upon us...iran may be next blood bath territory.

Please do Google for Illuminati and Atlantis lost civilization.

It all started from Atlantis, it goes way way beyond the recorded history.

Spread the message far and wide..no blood shed...non violence is everything.

Peace out

Opebo

09-29-09, 19:22

Chocha Monger

09-29-09, 19:49

I feel it, Born Looser. I think this cabal has been having a deleterious secret influence on my dick - it seems not so hard as it used to be in the good old days. I don't know if the illuminati just want to unman me (who wouldn't be threatened by such studly power?) or if they're just trying to sell more Viagra. But either way, I know its them. Sapping my precious bodily fluids.
I understand how you feel Opebo. I myself have been putting my own devious schemes into motion. For example, I spent the better part of a night convincing a young pinay virgin that my penis was capable of solving all of the economic and social ills she is experiencing in her homeland if she would only grant him a private audience. :D

Starchild2012

09-29-09, 20:33

Opebo, CM

LOL....good one...:)

I'm too in it ....man...i don't know i wish may be for someone some day it would be helpful.

It sounds insane, which is what these elitist and occult people want.

I just want people to go beyond..what we see is just the movie...every single individual on planet earth has to find out on himself what is this all about.

There is no religion, no science...its all an occult devilish structure what we call this earth as we see it.

its all a play of Satan...nothing is real, please trust no body, not even god, science, friends, anyone.

we are entering a very sublime angelic phase and these structures are bound to fall..

Don't become a human sacrifice for these elites to satisfy their gods.

http://www.illuminati-news.com

spread the message of non violence far and wide....peace out

Chocha Monger

09-30-09, 07:37

after reading born loser’s warning i decided to head off to the corner café and enjoy a cup of black tea. as i sat on the terrace enjoying my beverage the high pitched cry of a bald eagle screeched from my pda. ah, that could only mean one thing. my japanese lover sumiko was calling for her regular therapy. her husband must have left for the office again. i knew i had to do my duty to keep this marriage intact. mr. cuckold sure wasn’t laying his fair yardage of pipe and it was up to me to fill the quota required by sumiko’s narrow trench. so i headed off to her neighborhood and made a precautionary recon of the area leaving my car parked up the street. not noticing any housewives or old hags peeping through the blinds, i strode up and rang the door bell. she greeted me at the door wearing a pair of those form fitting blue jeans that she likes so much. sumiko’s ass always fascinated me. it was small and tight yet it had a gentle curvature that one would not anticipate on an asian girl. a red blouse rising ever so slightly above her navel topped off her ensemble. she smiled at me with her large dark almond shaped eyes. she usually wore her raven black hair up in a bun but today she had it down around her shoulders.

she ushered me in and took my shoes hiding them in a closet. we then ascended to the bedroom where she already had two large towels spread on the bed to soak up the wet spot. i wasted no time in pulling up her blouse over her head and releasing the catch on her padded bra. it seems that japanese girls only go for bras with padding or a hard cup. the golden color of her skin and the fragrant aroma of her hair went straight to my head. needless to say the foreplay was perfunctory and in no time i was embedded in sumiko’s tight hot wet hole. i was quite enjoying myself to the sound of her moans and whimpers when something caused me to miss a stroke. now, there are not many things that can cause me to halt mid-stroke when i’m balls deep in some tight asian snatch but this sound did. it was as though someone had stepped on a stair causing the wood to creak under their weight. i withdrew from the viselike grip of sumiko’s little cylinder so fast that my plunger almost drew her innards out after it. her pussy made an audible pop as i hastily cleared the entrance.

she sprang up and slid into her robe, heading downstairs to stall for time as i quickly hid. who could it be? maybe it was her husband. perhaps, he forgot something that he needed at the office. my heart was pounding. i hope he didn’t come upstairs because he’d hear my heart thumping for sure. i waited sweating. i couldn’t tell whether i was sweating from the fucking i gave sumiko or from the massive dose of adrenaline coursing through my system. my dick wilted like a daisy in a drought stricken field. i don’t know how long i waited for her to return but it felt like time had been suspended. finally i heard footsteps approaching and my gut tightened.

fuck! if i was discovered i might have to fight my way out. imagine explaining that one to the law. then i heard her calling my name softly and giggling. she told me i could come out since it was all clear. i asked her who was it. she said that there wasn’t anyone there. she said that i was just being paranoid and we both had a good laugh. we finished up the session but i just couldn’t get back the initial rhythm of my stroke. at the back of my mind i remembered born loser’s warning not to trust anyone. someone had been there. maybe it was baron rothschild’s ghost or the illuminati up to their tricks again. i just know they sent one of their agents to throw me off my stroke in the middle of my tryst. it’s all part of their depopulation agenda.

Starchild2012

10-01-09, 04:42

After reading Born Loser’s warning I decided to head off to the corner café and enjoy a cup of black tea. As I sat on the terrace enjoying my beverage the high pitched cry of a bald eagle screeched from my PDA.

Atlantis, Atlantis, Atlantis.....Whatever you think, whatever you do, if you have free time, do some research on the lost continent Atlantis....VERY IMPORTANT.

Everyone would wake up from the illusion that we live in now, I'm not against sex or what you wrote...i'm against fear that you experienced....these Illuminati prey on fear...thats their source of energy.. they play on our reptilian side of the brain..we all know exist..fear is what they build this world upon.

This is the one stage of understanding we all have to pass to understand our real nature..... this is THE biggest cover up extraordinare ever..

Everyone's collective consciousness is rising..we all are beginning to rise up ..

We will see more and more people waking up from this delusion.

Science & religion both are a con....real nature of man is different...

It would all seem ridiculous, but that is what these fucking elite want us to believe......i'm not different from you...i went to burgus, pattaya, cebu, DIA, Filipina heart, yahoo chat... i fucked more than 100 girls in the last six months...i'm not boasting this...but just showing u i'm one of you mongers which did the same thing as you..but i could feel some transformation is happening...we need to be positive folks... don't let fear take you over...our answer is love and non violence...these guys want to us fight and kill each other.

They want a new world order, a complete domination of one world centric society.

They operate on fear not on love...they will divide and rule..not unite human beings. Whatever you are doing continue to do...i'm not against sex or love or anything but we will go beyond that some time.

Everyone knows about Mayan's, Inca's, vedic, Babylonian, Mesopotamian, lumarian civilization.....we were told Atlantis did not exist and is a fantasy and if someone has some info, it would be ridiculed...

We all have to break the Atlantis code...these all civilization came from a highly advanced Atlantis ....this is one of the biggest secrets.

Who am i , what am'i doing here, what is all this existence....we all had this questions once didn't we...WHY? ...you will only find the answer when you uncover what Atlantis was?

Start from scratch, keep an open mind....google search will give u very few links to Atlantis ...i wonder why :)....go deep....everything is covered up just like our society.

this link is too high to grasp and sounds like a novel or fantasy or fiction combined....just go through it..

I'm not asking anyone to believe in some guru, some dogma, some religion, some 'ism's, science....just uncover the truth yourself through history.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/anunnaki/anu_18.htm

Peace out...remember guys....non violence is the answer..good luck CM

Chocha Monger

10-01-09, 05:53

It would all seem ridiculous, but that is what these fucking elite want us to believe......i'm not different from you...i went to burgus, pattaya, cebu, DIA, Filipina heart, yahoo chat... i fucked more than 100 girls in the last six months...i'm not boasting this...but just showing u i'm one of you mongers which did the same thing as you..but i could feel some transformation is happening...we need to be positive folks... don't let fear take you over...our answer is love and non violence...these guys want to us fight and kill each other.
Brother,
You racked up over 100 fuck points in 6 months. Jackson change this gentleman's name from Born Loser 5 to Sex Machine! How much money did you spend on this wholesale fuck bonanza? Did score a fuck point each day or multiple fuck points per day. Six months is about 120 days give or take. That means you had a fresh hole almost every day. Please give a detailed synopsis of how you accomplished this feat. The world ends in 2012 and there are only so many days left to score fuck points.

Regards,
CM

Starchild2012

10-01-09, 05:58

To all skeptic's....please take your dollar bill and investigate why their is a pyramid with an eye...does america have pyramids ? why the dollar bill has a small picture of Owl ? does that make any sense?

If you investigate...the eye is of the Egyptian god Horus and its consort owl...they worshiped devil ? heard about bohemian groove where all living presidents meet on the month of july ?

Pantagram ? pentagon ?

These bloodlines have come from Egypt...America is their new egypt...interpret the words and that says new world order?

Everything is on the internet...look through the past of all the presidents...they all have come from monachy bloodlines from europe...

Why bush to clinton to obama...are members of freemason?

I'm not making this up...these are all facts one can check on the internet...

Just connect the dots and we all will see the truth.

The real research of our life's is just beginning now.

Do you want a real rush ...do the research on all black magic, devil workship, lucifer on the net and see if the people in the power had any participation in it....you want to get some action, real shock of your life...wish you had some adventure...where all alien's folklore were right....you will get it if you connect the dots.

Even if you don't agree on anything....non violence and love is the answer...they will want everyone to fight against each other in coming days...what are these FEMA CAMPS for...listen to alex jones.

American politics is just an instrument for these illuminates to further their goals.

Don't sacrifice your life for these devil work shippers

Starchild2012

10-01-09, 06:25

Brother,
You racked up over 100 fuck points in 6 months. Jackson change this gentleman's name from Born Loser 5 to Sex Machine! How much money did you spend on this wholesale fuck bonanza? Did score a fuck point each day or multiple fuck points per day. Six months is about 120 days give or take. That means you had a fresh hole almost every day. Please give a detailed synopsis of how you accomplished this feat. The world ends in 2012 and there are only so many days left to score fuck points.

Regards,
CM

I don't remember the multiple sessions that we all do, its Philippines bro anything is possible :) i have written that i feel i'm a sex maniac :)..but still i respect women a lot, you wouldn't see i writing bad things about women and i pay every encounter well above the average price :)

The world doesn't end in 2012....that is what they want everyone to believe...collective consciousness , they want to create a reality that is different from the real.

Infact by 2012 to 2016 we all will know our real nature....these Illuminati's don't want that, they want control...

They dont want us to be free..the truth you will uncover would be 1 trillion times more powerful than an atomic weapon.

There is a lot of media, internet disinformation campaign going on...take everything with a pinch of salt, trust no one, believe none...only non violence and love is the answer in coming days.

We will more and more hear about one world order, one currency, climate change, one world governance and then alien invasion for the world to unite under one force to combat world problems.... believe none.

America is the hub of these monsters, they have infiltrated America a long long time back...they don't care if billions die.

End times are near, judgement is upon us...you will hear these words more often...trust no one...all lies sugar coated pills.

Almost all Americans presidents were freemasons? why is that?

Check these pic out, what are these signs, do we do this everyday...just connect the dots....this sign is the horn of lucifer....do research on devil, black magic, and these signs come up over and over again?

America is the new Egypt.

Gentleman Travel

10-01-09, 15:31

Chocha Monger

10-01-09, 18:52

i am surprised at the absence of discussion here about the roman polanski arrest.

is it because we all understand that the little fucker had it coming to him?

yes. we understand that roman polanski the little **** bastard had it coming to him. the sad thing was that he was going to get off with 90 days and probation if the judge hadn't seen those pictures in the press where polanski was at it again with **** girls in europe while awaiting his sentence. maybe we're just tired of the double standard in the american justice system when it comes to the rich and famous. there are things we don't like to acknowledge as americans like the fact that michael vick was punished more harshly for his mistreatment of dogs compared to roman polanski a confessed child [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126).

Warbucks

10-01-09, 19:28

i am surprised at the absence of discussion here about the roman polanski arrest.

is it because we all understand that the little fucker had it coming to him?

i mean, we can all disagree with some of the silly sex laws that many countries, and the us in particular, have - but [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) and sodomizing a 13 year-old has got to be beyond the pale even for the most perverted monger! the guy could probably have had a queue of young wannabe starlets eagerly waiting outside his bedroom and he has to resort to getting a 13 year-old drunk, then drugged, then forcibly [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) and sodomizing her!

i understand that 30 years is a long time ago, and i don't know how the statute of limitations works in the us, but he was tried and convicted (and confessed), fleeing justice and living as a fugitive should not count as "time served" pre-sentencing! sure he was right to suspect his plea bargain might not be honored - no one ever got off that lightly for such a blatant crime.

yet the hollywood elite and french government are defending this little prick?

i guess their concept of sexual morality and justice is not as high and refined as that of isg mongers!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/roman_polanski#sex_crime_conviction

sex crime conviction

in 1977, polanski, then aged 44, became embroiled in a scandal involving 13-year-old samantha gailey (now samantha geimer). it ultimately led to polanski's guilty plea to the charge of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor.[33][34]

according to geimer, polanski asked geimer's mother if he could photograph the girl for the french edition of vogue, which polanski had been invited to guest-edit. her mother allowed a private photo shoot. according to geimer in a 2003 interview, "everything was going fine; then he asked me to change, well, in front of him." she added, "it didn't feel right, and i didn't want to go back to the second shoot."[34]

geimer later agreed to a second session, which took place on march 10, 1977 at the home of actor jack nicholson in the mulholland area of los angeles. "we did photos with me drinking champagne," geimer says. "toward the end it got a little scary, and i realized he had other intentions and i knew i was not where i should be. i just didn't quite know how to get myself out of there." she recalled in a 2003 interview that she began to feel uncomfortable after he asked her to lie down on a bed, and how she attempted to resist. "i said, 'no, no. i don't want to go in there. no, i don't want to do this. no!', and then i didn't know what else to do," she stated, adding: "we were alone and i didn’t know what else would happen if i made a scene. so i was just scared, and after giving some resistance, i figured well, i guess i’ll get to come home after this".[35]

geimer testified that polanski gave her a combination of champagne and quaaludes,[36] a sedative drug, and "despite her protests, he performed oral sex, intercourse and sodomy on her",[37][38][39] each time after being told 'no' and being asked to stop.[40][41][42][43]

charges and guilty plea

polanski was initially charged[44] with [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14, and furnishing a controlled substance (methaqualone) to a minor. these charges were dismissed under the terms of his plea bargain, and he pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of engaging in unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor.[45]

under the terms of the plea agreement, according to the documentary roman polanski: wanted and desired, the court ordered polanski to report to a state prison for a 90-day psychiatric evaluation, but granted a stay of ninety days to allow him to complete his current project. under the terms set by the court, he was permitted to travel abroad. polanski returned to california and reported to chino state prison for the evaluation period, and was released after 42 days. all parties expected polanski to get only probation at the subsequent sentencing hearing, but after an alleged conversation with la deputy district attorney david wells, the judge "suggested to polanski's attorneys that he would send the director to prison and order him deported".[46] in response to the threat of imprisonment, polanski fled the united states.

warbucks verdict:

i hope this mother fucker gets extradited back to the states and hope he gets sent to a super-max where he becomes the personal property of a extremely large triple-lifer black american inmate nick-named “big spicy” who after 5 years sales him for a carton of squares on some straight oz up shit :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/oz_(tv_series)

warbucks......no love for ****s

Warbucks

10-01-09, 19:42

yes. we understand that roman polanski the little **** bastard had it coming to him. the sad thing was that he was going to get off with 90 days and probation if the judge hadn't seen those pictures in the press where polanski was at it again with **** girls in europe while awaiting his sentence. maybe we're just tired of the double standard in the american justice system when it comes to the rich and famous. there are things we don't like to acknowledge as americans like the fact that michael vick was punished more harshly for his mistreatment of dogs compared to roman polanski a confessed child [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126).

look at oj the most hated man in american history. last time he was on trial for trying to get some shit back that “belonged” to him all white jury? judge who ridiculed and berated him?

http://www.azcentral.com/ent/celeb/articles/2009/09/30/20090930whoopi-goldberg-defends-polanski.html

can you believe the ugliest woman on earth whoopi goldberg came to the defense of this polanski saying it wasn’t a “[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)?” lol. not only that a lot of people in the entertainment business have asked the government to give him a past.

i think a while back i was arguing with dr. skank and host of others about the racial inequality of the american justice system and overall view of the demographic majority.

Gentleman Travel

10-01-09, 20:50

look at oj the most hated man in american history. last time he was on trial for trying to get some shit back that “belonged” to him all white jury? judge who ridiculed and berated him?

http://www.azcentral.com/ent/celeb/articles/2009/09/30/20090930whoopi-goldberg-defends-polanski.html

can you believe the ugliest woman on earth whoopi goldberg came to the defense of this polanski saying it wasn’t a “[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)?” lol. not only that a lot of people in the entertainment business have asked the government to give him a past.

i think a while back i was arguing with dr. skank and host of others about the racial inequality of the american justice system and overall view of the demographic majority.
yeah, i love whoopi's "it's not [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)-[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)" line.
so whoopi, what is [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)?
it is clear that the girl did not consent - not that that would have been justification with a girl that age anyway.
it is clear that she did not lure or entice or cooperate in any way, except to drinking champange, illegally, which she thought was part of the photo shoot.
it is clear that polanski got her drunk and drugged and still had to force himself on her, with her saying "no" all along.
i mean what do you need to make it really [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)?

while it is clear that polanski has escaped justice for decades and was offered an unbelievably lenient plea bargain in the first place, i don't think you can look at this as a black-white issue. many white men would do serious time for a crime as serious as this. sure it is more serious than mike vink's crime, but less serious than oj simpson's double-murder, from which he walked. everyone on the face of the earth knows that oj was guilty of those murders.

so let's agree that polanski is guilty of a much greater crime than vick, and somewhat more serious than oj's armed robbery and kidnapping. so let's agree he should get more than 15 years, with no chance of parole because he is a proven fllight risk. of coure oj is a flight risk also, remember the suv chase? vick not so much, he is a fast runner, but mostly on the football field.

Opebo

10-02-09, 16:30

yes. we understand that roman polanski the little **** bastard had it coming to him.

actually no, some of us just don't discuss that sort of thing because we understand that is not permitted on this forum to refer to anything under the legal limit.

Chocha Monger

10-02-09, 18:38

Actually no, some of us just don't discuss that sort of thing because we understand that is not permitted on this forum to refer to anything under the legal limit.
Yes. That too.

Beavis

10-02-09, 19:11

That's my rating.

Any comments on the Obama administration?

Please fell free to elaborate on that. What has he done? He sent 2 billion dollars to Brazil to help their offshore oil exploration while his actions have have just about shut ours down. Every time another rig leaves the US several more jobs are lost. He made a move to help the Jamas refugees (who hate us) easily immigrate to the US. He has made a clear path to blame everything on Bush. Personally I think the man is a moron.

Opebo

10-02-09, 19:47

Personally I think the man is a moron.

While it is not unusual for right-wingers to think that, your particular focus is very narrow! I hardly think history shall judge this presidency by its handling of minor details like offshore oil-drilling or a few refugees.

No, viewed overall, with a broad eye and an unclouded mind, there isn't much difference between the previous corporate administration and this one. There's been some chatter the poor-killing in the health care area will stop, but it seems unlikely. The tone of the imperialism has changed, but not the substance. And as for our hobby, well, it is still under attack the world over - perhaps under different auspices than the Republican's theocratic ones, but still, under attack.

The biggest compliment I can give to the American center-right party over the American extreme right party is this - they aren't crazy. Yes, they're servants of the same people, and the same oppression of the rest of us results, but they sell themselves on quotidian practicality, not on corybantic delusion.

Beavis

10-02-09, 23:34

While it is not unusual for right-wingers to think that, your particular focus is very narrow! I hardly think history shall judge this presidency by its handling of minor details like offshore oil-drilling or a few refugees.

No, viewed overall, with a broad eye and an unclouded mind, there isn't much difference between the previous corporate administration and this one. There's been some chatter the poor-killing in the health care area will stop, but it seems unlikely. The tone of the imperialism has changed, but not the substance. And as for our hobby, well, it is still under attack the world over - perhaps under different auspices than the Republican's theocratic ones, but still, under attack.

The biggest compliment I can give to the American center-right party over the American extreme right party is this - they aren't crazy. Yes, they're servants of the same people, and the same oppression of the rest of us results, but they sell themselves on quotidian practicality, not on corybantic delusion.

I'm neither right nor left wing, nor was I a fan of Bush. IMHO Bush was one of the worst presidents we had ever had.... at least until now.

Latin Bound

10-03-09, 00:37

Starchild2012

10-03-09, 13:55

Warning...Don't take swine flu shots, its much much more than what it appears. lots of stuff going on right now to control people at large. Sad day for Ireland for forcing them to say yes to the lisbon treaty....

the global agenda of these elite is something different than what is being projected in the world.

Beavis

10-03-09, 18:20

I'm sure many would like to comment, but why is it that surveys results have demonstrated that most americans are middle ground and we still have this antagonist political system? Isn't it that it just serves the ones on the top? As far as I'm concerned I give a rats ass about any of them, because I believe they are all out for themselves. Public service my ass. Land of the free my ass. That is all long gone. Is land of the one that has the most.

Very well said. Quote Lewis Black, "The only thing worse than a republican or a democrat is when these assholes work together. The way it works is the republican stands up and says I've got a really bad idea, then the democrat yells, and I can make it shittier."

Opebo

10-03-09, 20:39

Actually our sad homeland has no left or middle, but two right-wing parties, guys.

Starchild2012

10-05-09, 06:53

Its time to go beyond and not get caught up in circles..there are no answers in these planes...science and religion both have been infiltrated.

Seriously, folks, its no joke, save yourself from the events that will unfold in coming months and years.

American politics have already being highly infiltrated by dark forces... democrats and republicans both are corrupt...we all know that already...it's all going to get worse and worse...and we can all feel that already.

Then why wait for answers to the problem..find it for yourself.

Now these folks are talking suddenly about Iran having nuclear weapons ..are you kidding...we know what they did to Iraq with false weapons of mass destruction...its just a pretense to go into Iran and kill millions.

All Americans who are young, don't join the military and become a blood sacrifice to the ruling elite.

Dont kill yourself for some concepts and illusions. The plan is much much bigger than human understanding..

For start...Does anyone know here that Mahmoud Amamedinajad, the Iranian president is a Jew ? search in Google...how ironic right...the holocaust denier is a Jew and Jews have the second most population in Iran in the middle east.

Read this site which would make no sense now but will lator

http://www.xeeatwelve.com/

Chocha Monger

10-06-09, 00:03

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33178495/ns/world_news/?GT1=43001

London Guy

10-06-09, 00:38

So who will win the Presidents cup this coming weekend guys?

Its U.S.A for me but we will kick your butts in next years Ryder Cup!

Beavis

10-06-09, 03:20

We will be luckt to remain in the top 50 under the current administration. Just ask Mrs. Pelosi about the minimum wage deferral in Guam.

Gentleman Travel

10-06-09, 15:46

We will be luckt to remain in the top 50 under the current administration. Just ask Mrs. Pelosi about the minimum wage deferral in Guam.While I am no expert on UNDP HDI ratings, I rather suspect that the failure of the current government to implement a 70 cent minimum wage rise in Guam did not have a significant impact on the US dropping one place from its 2006 ranking, especially as minimum wages are not even included in the index. But it must be tough on Wal-Mart employees in Guam...

Gentleman Travel

10-09-09, 15:04

well, americans are certainly regaining some international glory and stature, especially compared to their immorally-superior european friends.

today mr. obama has been awarded the nobel peace prize after only a few months in office and not much longer in the public consciousness. while many may feel obama does not deserve it - yet - it is a reflection of how highly regarded he is internationally.

and then from france we have revealed this dirty little secret (okay it was not a secret to the french people, but i think to most of the rest of the west) - that fredric mitterand, the french minister of culture and steadfast defender of soul-mate roman polanski, is a nasty **** of thai boys who brags (and writes) openly in his 2005 autobiography the bad life, "i got into the habit of paying for boys ... all these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excite me enormously."

www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/10/08/2009-10-08_french_pol_.html#ixzz0trgkfgik

the breathtaking thing is that mitterand admitted and wrote about these things a few years ago - that he frequented boy brothels in thailand and loved the power of buying sex slaves, but he still got appointed to be culture minister in a "conservative" government (on the recommendation of the president's mistress)!! only in france!

ok, well not only in france, because our friend silvio berlusconi is also in deep do-do regarding various affairs, including with minors, and consorting with prostitutes.

now most of us have affairs or consort with prostitutes also, but i think we recognize that this limits (or should limit) some of our career options - like becoming a catholic bishop or cabinet secretary or prime minister.

so, our american friends can hold their heads high on the world stage.
mr. obama is certainly standing head and shoulders above his european peers.

Chocha Monger

10-09-09, 15:57

We will be luckt to remain in the top 50 under the current administration. Just ask Mrs. Pelosi about the minimum wage deferral in Guam.
Actually, the economy was in the shit hole before the current administration. The previous administration had already written stimulus checks and poured hundreds of billions into their war in Iraq. Let's not rewrite history.

Beavis

10-09-09, 18:42

Actually, the economy was in the shit hole before the current administration. The previous administration had already written stimulus checks and poured hundreds of billions into their war in Iraq. Let's not rewrite history.

We're not going to have to rewrite anything. Mr. Obama is going to do that for us. We went from bad to worse.

Beavis

10-09-09, 18:46

While I am no expert on UNDP HDI ratings, I rather suspect that the failure of the current government to implement a 70 cent minimum wage rise in Guam did not have a significant impact on the US dropping one place from its 2006 ranking, especially as minimum wages are not even included in the index. But it must be tough on Wal-Mart employees in Guam...

It had nothing to do with the the state of the US. It had plenty to do with the fact that Mr. Pelosi is a major share holder in Del Monte who owns the Star Kist cannery on the island that employs 70% of it's population. How convenient to tailor the laws around ones private interest.

Opebo

10-09-09, 20:13

and then from france we have revealed this dirty little secret (okay it was not a secret to the french people, but i think to most of the rest of the west) - that fredric mitterand, the french minister of culture and steadfast defender of soul-mate roman polanski, is a nasty **** of thai boys who brags (and writes) openly in his 2005 autobiography the bad life, "i got into the habit of paying for boys ... all these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excite me enormously."

more power to him. he's describing exactly what everyone on this forum does, albeit a different gender.

the breathtaking thing is that mitterand admitted and wrote about these things a few years ago - that he frequented boy brothels in thailand and loved the power of buying sex slaves, but he still got appointed to be culture minister in a "conservative" government (on the recommendation of the president's mistress)!! only in france!

what's breathtaking about this is how wonderfully tolerant and reasonable is france compared to the american theocracy.

now most of us have affairs or consort with prostitutes also, but i think we recognize that this limits (or should limit) some of our career options - like becoming a catholic bishop or cabinet secretary or prime minister.

no, it does so limit, but it most certainly should not so limit.

Chocha Monger

10-10-09, 00:36

We're not going to have to rewrite anything. Mr. Obama is going to do that for us. We went from bad to worse.
I'm not sure what metrics you're basing your position on so I can't argue with your opinion. What I know for sure is that a budget surplus was turned into a deficit during the Bush years. Things progressed steadily downhill from there. I think that Obama was elected as a convenient scapegoat for quagmire of shit left behind by his predecessor. Obama hasn't really done anything because Congress wouldn't let him. Like Meat Loaf pointed out the guy is little more than a mascot. I'm not sure why people believed that he could walk into office and magically reverse what transpired during the previous 8 yrs. Are Americans really that naive?

Anyone expecting a particular government or political party to save the country is in for a rude awakening. Secure your own interests and forget the government. This might mean changing countries of residence if necessary.

Beavis

10-10-09, 00:41

Anyone expecting a particular government or political party to save the country is in for a rude awakening. Secure your own interests and forget the government. This might mean changing countries of residence if necessary.

I don't see how anybody can argue with this, it's been in my radar for a while now.

Warbucks

10-10-09, 16:50

Chocha Monger you was right. I think I will stay the Philippines. :(

http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=11287667

Chocha Monger

10-11-09, 00:21

Chocha Monger you was right. I think I will stay the Philippines. :(

http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=11287667
Talk about getting your kicks on Route 66. The video also demonstrates why shootouts are best left to professionals. Did you notice that guy standing off about 10 ft behind his buddy firing pass him with his pistol? What is amazing is that no one got killed by friendly fire.

It's the Wild West gentlemen!
http://bestoftheblogs.com/Home/21446

ThatGuy865

10-11-09, 01:25

We're not going to have to rewrite anything. Mr. Obama is going to do that for us. We went from bad to worse.The US was heading down long before Obama got in there. Don't tell me it was going in the right direction then in 6 mths its turned this bad.

If anything he's trying to stop the flood gates from drowning us all. The banks were rippin off customer for the longest. Subprime loans, Then overdraft fees.

The bush admin, giving tax breaks to the top 2% of america, (who suppose to create jobs, but it just went into buying yachts/bentleys/vacations) while. Cutting out government college lending programs (which helped the middle class) to help banks rip off the middle class further.

In 1989 CEO's made 71% times more than the average worker, in 2000 CEO's made over 400% times more than the average worker. All because america bought into the Reagan philosophy of the "trickle down" affect. Supposely the more you gave to the rich the more jobs they were suppose to create. Only they forgot to tell the greedy CEO's who found everything but jobs to spend the money on. And America has been going down every since.

Now that the world has basically gone into a global society in which no country can function independently. The US is going to have to wait for other countries to come up before it will be able to get any better due to outsourcing of all manufactured products. As long as its cheaper to make goods outside of the country america will remain rather stagnant.

Starchild2012

10-20-09, 07:02

interesting take on us presidents.

as we follow this bloodline through the millennia we find that all 43 presidents of the united states to george w. bush, the royal families of england, including the house of windsor, and those responsible for the creation and imposition of christianity and other religions, like the jehovah's witnesses and the mormons.

of those 43 us presidents since the first in 1789, some 34 are connected genetically to charlemagne,the most famous monarch of what we now call france, and a major figure in the illuminati and its bloodlines.

in the last weeks of the farcical year 2000 presidential election campaign, that "blue blood bible" of royal and aristocratic genealogy, burke's peerage, confirmed the themes i am highlighting here.

four years earlier, when bill clinton faced bob dole, burkes peerage said that the candidate with the most european royal genes had won every single presidential election in us history. clinton and george w. bush have since continued that unbroken sequence.

in a reuter's report of october 17th, 2000, burkes peerage confirmed that both george w. bush and "opponent" al gore were of royal descent with bush the "bluer" of the two. purely by knowing his bloodline and watching the behind-the-scenes developments, i was able to predict three years before the 2000 election that george blood brothers w. bush would be the next president of the united states. bush is closely related to every european monarch on and off the throne including the king of albania and has kinship with every member of britain's royal family, the report said.

he is a 13th cousin of britain's (seriously reptilian) queen mother, and her daughter queen elizabeth, and is a 13th cousin once removed of the heir to the throne, prince charles. bush has a direct descent from henry iii and from henry viii's sister mary tudor, who was also the wife of louis xi of france. he is further descended from charles ii of england. harold brooks-baker, publishing director of burke's peerage, said: "it is now clear that mr gore and mr bush have an unusually large number of royal and noble descents." only unusual if you don't know the story.

he added: "in point of fact, never in the history of the united states have two presidential candidates been as well endowed with royal alliances."23 brooks-baker said there had always been a significant "royalty factor" in those who aspired to the white house, with presidents george washington, thomas jefferson, franklin and theodore roosevelt, and ronald reagan, among others, all boasting blue blood links.

he said that al gore, a cousin of former president, richard nixon, was a
descendant of edward i and has direct links to the holy roman empire through
emperors, louis ii, charles ii and louis i. this, therefore, makes him a direct
descendant of charlemagne, the 8th-century emperor.24 these charlemagne links make gore a cousin of george w. bush!

Clandestine782

10-20-09, 07:54

interesting take on us presidents.

as we follow this bloodline through the millennia we find that all 43 presidents of the united states to george w. bush, the royal families of england, including the house of windsor, and those responsible for the creation and imposition of christianity and other religions, like the jehovah's witnesses and the mormons. um, do you mean to tell me that the crown created christianity? the british crown is something less than 10 centuries old. so what are you saying? the birth of christ (and i say this as a historical event, and not as a believer) was over 2000 years ago. so, there are some adding problems with this argument.
of those 43 us presidents since the first in 1789, some 34 are connected genetically to charlemagne,the most famous monarch of what we now call france, and a major figure in the illuminati and its bloodlines.ok....if you want to get technical, every person is genetically connected to every other person. if you want to narrow it down a bit further, you can know that (for example), kohanim in israel are related in some way to lemba in africa (i believe it was kohanim that were studied as the basis of a marker). so now what? lemba in africa are the furthest thing you would ever think of jews-- either israeli or american. so, if the presidents are related to french people, then what?

in the last weeks of the farcical year 2000 presidential election campaign, that "blue blood bible" of royal and aristocratic genealogy, burke's peerage, confirmed the themes i am highlighting here.

four years earlier, when bill clinton faced bob dole, burkes peerage said that the candidate with the most european royal genes had won every single presidential election in us history. clinton and george w. bush have since continued that unbroken sequence. ok......1) what is his evidence for this statement? you know that at some level of abstraction, a spark plug and a canteloupe are related to each other. so, is this guy saying that the presidents shared one single genetic marker? and if they did, then so what? there are something like 40,000 genes on the human genome. so if 43 people express the same allelle (and they are all white people), then does that mean anything special? 2)if there is some genetic relationship, how can you prove that there is a conspiracy vs. the possibility that those people had good enough genes to make it to the top?

Starchild2012

10-21-09, 04:34

Um, do you mean to tell me that the Crown created Christianity? The British Crown is something less than 10 centuries old. So what are you saying? The birth of Christ (and I say this as a historical event, and not as a believer) was over 2000 years ago. So, there are some adding problems with this argument. Ok....if you want to get technical, every person is genetically connected to every other person. If you want to narrow it down a bit further, you can know that (for example), Kohanim in Israel are related in some way to Lemba in Africa (I believe it was Kohanim that were studied as the basis of a marker). So now what? Lemba in Africa are the furthest thing you would ever think of Jews-- Either Israeli or American. So, if the Presidents are related to French people, then what?

Ok......1) What is his evidence for this statement? You know that at some level of abstraction, a spark plug and a canteloupe are related to each other. So, is this guy saying that the Presidents shared ONE SINGLE genetic marker? And if they did, then so what? There are something like 40,000 genes on the human genome. So if 43 people express the same allelle (and they are all white people), then does that mean anything special? 2)If there is some genetic relationship, how can you prove that there is a conspiracy vs. the possibility that those people had good enough genes to make it to the top?

Clandestine, Good Points, It is an extract from David Icke's books The Children of Matrix. I just posted a paragraph from the book.

Christianity is just a front of these Satan work shippers, all US presidents were members of Bohemian groove, where satanic ritual takes place every month end of july. it was videotaped by Alex jones of infowars.com. You can Google it Bohemian Groove Alex jones. The world is not as we think it is.

In the name of Christianity all top politicians and businessman work ship Lucifer.

All presidents in America are member of either Freemasonry or skull and bones, a satanic secret society. just type in you tube.

These are facts, You can type freemason US presidents in Google and get all info. George bush is a member of Skull and bones and they openly say that so.

Even if you say you don't go with genetic make up, You can search Google and youtube type secret society US presidents, there are tons of verifiable information out there which seems plausible that all does not seem the way it is.

Chocha Monger

10-21-09, 09:06

Clandestine, Good Points, It is an extract from David Icke's books The Children of Matrix. I just posted a paragraph from the book.

Christianity is just a front of these Satan work shippers, all US presidents were members of Bohemian groove, where satanic ritual takes place every month end of july. it was videotaped by Alex jones of infowars.com. You can Google it Bohemian Groove Alex jones. The world is not as we think it is.

In the name of Christianity all top politicians and businessman work ship Lucifer.

All presidents in America are member of either Freemasonry or skull and bones, a satanic secret society. just type in you tube.

These are facts, You can type freemason US presidents in Google and get all info. George bush is a member of Skull and bones and they openly say that so.

Even if you say you don't go with genetic make up, You can search Google and youtube type secret society US presidents, there are tons of verifiable information out there which seems plausible that all does not seem the way it is.
Born Loser 5:

Founding father Benjamin Franklin was not only a Freemason but an avid monger. What about all the ISG mongers who are Freemasons? Are they servants of Lucifer?

Starchild2012

10-21-09, 12:51

born loser 5:

founding father benjamin franklin was not only a freemason but an avid monger. what about all the isg mongers who are freemasons? are they servants of lucifer?

lol good one :)...ben was a very high degree freemason, he was totally into satanic ritual and human sacrifice to the tee. he was a monger but of ****d child to gay sex to drinking blood. i know it sounds horrific, how would one explain dead bodies been dug up where four adults and six children where found in his old home basement in london recently. with all the marking in bone been drilled and cut and we all probably know about this apparently unconnected news, only when we start connecting the dots do we find something is plausible.

http://healthandsurvival.com/2008/09/05/10-dead-people-at-ben-franklins-home/

http://www.infowars.com/articles/occult/hellfire.htm

http://www.upenn.edu/gazette/0998/0998gaz5.html

isg monger who are member of freemason, most have no clue what is going on in the higher degree up of the chain, folks above 20 degree are taught about the rituals, symbolism and sacrifices and when some reach 33 degree they are made aware of the path they have chosen.

think about it..even if we deny everything else, how can we deny the fact that all us presidents were members of some secret society. now that is a fact which is verifiable and even some members like bush admit it openly.

i just don't feel it right, when the most free nation in the world presidents are eager to join some secret societies.

anyway, it's much deeper than ben frank. he is just a pawn in the great game to control our life's.

Gentleman Travel

10-21-09, 16:02

Clandestine, Good Points, It is an extract from David Icke's books The Children of Matrix. I just posted a paragraph from the book.

Christianity is just a front of these Satan work shippers, all US presidents were members of Bohemian groove, where satanic ritual takes place every month end of july. it was videotaped by Alex jones of infowars.com. You can Google it Bohemian Groove Alex jones. The world is not as we think it is.

In the name of Christianity all top politicians and businessman work ship Lucifer.

All presidents in America are member of either Freemasonry or skull and bones, a satanic secret society. just type in you tube.

These are facts, You can type freemason US presidents in Google and get all info. George bush is a member of Skull and bones and they openly say that so.

Even if you say you don't go with genetic make up, You can search Google and youtube type secret society US presidents,there are tons of verifiable information out there which seems plausible that all does not seem the way it is.
Born Loser, the internet is a vast trash heap of "information" and you have to be very discerning to pick out the nuggets of truth from the rest of the slag. I hope you are more discerning and less guillible when it comes to choosing girls for mongering! (Hint, she doesn't really "love you" and it may not be "so big" as she says - sorry to burst your bubble!)

"It is an extract from David Icke's books The Children of Matrix."

Speaking of which, did you know that the world as we know it is all an illusion, a vast conspiracy run by computers know as the Matrix, and we are all just parts of the program? Honestly, just Google it...

Chocha Monger

10-21-09, 19:32

Max Mojo

10-21-09, 20:36

Born Looser 5,

You didn't hear this from me, but you might want to break out the tinfoil.

There coming budy. I hear your thoughts.

Be afraid, VERY afraid.

Warbucks

10-22-09, 04:33

Starchild2012

10-22-09, 06:48

Born Loser 5:

What if you were offered an opportunity to be part of a very ancient secret society that practically guaranteed you financial success and power over others in your society? Would you turn down the offer to join such an organization? Would you reject access to secret knowledge and a vast network of powerful men willing to grant you favors? Isn't that what many people seek when they apply to exclusive universities and network with business colleagues?

CM...I understand what you are trying to say and this is the reason i wanted to know about who these guys are and how the hell these guys hold so much enormous power by joining secret societies.

One dot of info connected to another and what we see outside is not all what goes on inside.

we have to first understand, this world is a creation of Satan. These guys make pact with Satan in exchange for their souls when they die for the enourmous power they get when they live.

They know very well that, they have taken a left hand path for quick way to economic power, in the end they know after death they will have to serve the Satan for ever...that is the reason..most of the top people try to hold on to their bodies for how long it could hold, cos they know after their death..their is no coming back.

If a guy has 100 million net worth he or she must be connected to a secret society else you would be falsely charged and put behind bars or murdered which will look like accident or suicide.

In US and most of EU countries, you won't be even considered for a top job,if you are not a member of some secret societies, never mind the brilliance you have.

I understand all the skepticism, and it all sounds hocus pokus, one just has to read the history of these secret societies to know how demonic they are.

We are all been prepared for New World Order. I have not said anything which is not verifiable on the internet by countless researchers. You can get more info on david Icke's books or davidicke.com

I turned down the offer. I was offered the opportunity by a 3rd degree to join their organization. I could have easily said I believe in god (a supreme being) which is one of their requirements and been accepted but due to devout atheism I could not say that.

I witnessed with my own eyes a lot of them land high powered jobs and get out of trouble with the police due to their affiliation.

Many folks who join secret societies don't realize why they need a person of faith, the reason, i read was Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam etc, are all creation of these societies in the present form by indoctrination or infiltration for thousands of years.

They have twisted the truth for their own agenda, it is easier to manipulate folks who have religious background than with an atheist who would have many questions to answer before accepting anything.

In short, these secret societies are after folks who have desires for power and control at the same time weak in his will.

Starchild2012

10-22-09, 07:09

Born Looser 5,

You didn't hear this from me, but you might want to break out the tinfoil.

There coming budy. I hear your thoughts.

Be afraid, VERY afraid.

LOL....I would be glad to be in a tinfoil with a Filipina pussy...:)

Peace

Starchild2012

10-22-09, 07:33

Born Loser, the internet is a vast trash heap of "information" and you have to be very discerning to pick out the nuggets of truth from the rest of the slag. I hope you are more discerning and less guillible when it comes to choosing girls for mongering! (Hint, she doesn't really "love you" and it may not be "so big" as she says - sorry to burst your bubble!)

"It is an extract from David Icke's books The Children of Matrix."

Speaking of which, did you know that the world as we know it is all an illusion, a vast conspiracy run by computers know as the Matrix, and we are all just parts of the program? Honestly, just Google it...

I understand it totally mate, that is why it takes so much time to find a genuine GF, pussy or info now a days.....its the same as diamond in the rough scenario where ever we go, the conditions whether to find a GF or truth is similar now a days, we have to find it through the maze of disinformation.

As with mongering as with information, i'm very careful to check which one is right and which one is a fake.

I found ISG five years back and sticked with it and now we know our judgement was right else i wouldn't have found PH in the first place.

I got offer's for living in Canada, UK & Australia and many of my friends were tempted to go there and now they want to come back and most are driving taxi's there.... life is shit for them. They will never ever believe that PH is great for fun, even if i show pic they say, im with a hooker. Thats how bad the conditioning is for them, they can't accept the fact that a country which is not as progressive as the west could be so much fun.

This is what i'm trying to say here, the world is not as we think it is. I got most of the truth not from main stream media but from sites like these.

------------------------------

The Matrix that David Icke says is exactly what i wrote above in my case, people are made to believe that west is a paradise of nature, where everything is perfect and beautiful...well that is from outside...when ignorant newbies from developing country goes to the west, they soon realize that it is not what it seems to be and they start living in another prison. We have countless stories of folks getting trapped by these travel agents and becoming later to survive taxi drivers and waiters etc.

This is the illusion of the world i think David says in one scenario. Of course we know of the various dimensions etc and the Illuminati's try hard for us to remain in this conditioned reality for ever.

Peace

Gentleman Travel

10-22-09, 16:08

The Matrix that David Icke says is exactly what i wrote above in my case, people are made to believe that west is a paradise of nature, where everything is perfect and beautiful...well that is from outside...when ignorant newbies from developing country goes to the west, they soon realize that it is not what it seems to be and they start living in another prison. We have countless stories of folks getting trapped by these travel agents and becoming later to survive taxi drivers and waiters etc.Sure this happens everyday, and some of it is a conspircay, but not particularly secret or run by the Illuminati. It is straight trade unioin protectionism. Indian doctors and Pakistani Ph.Ds come to Canada and the US and get stuck in low-level jobs because their qualifications are not recognized by the Canadian Medical Association or whoever, and they have not or cannot do the skills and licencing top-up required.

Sometimes this is legitimate (would I want a Thai doctor operating on my daughter? I have no idea of the standards there!) and a lot of it is bullshit protectionism - making highly skilled people from other systems jump through expensive and time-consuming hoops just to keep them in their place. If it is any comfort to you, we often do this within Canada also, when you move from one jurisdiction to another. Yes it is stupid and unfair and, in some respects, a conspiracy. But it is all out in the open and official and the motives and self-interest are clear. And prospective immigrants can and should do this basic research before they come.

Starchild2012

10-23-09, 06:17

And prospective immigrants can and should do this basic research before they come.

Amen to that, I have saved so much time, money and fun by just RTTF and doing multiple research on the same topic by various sources. Most of the folks just go to the west by outside beauty and i go by the rule by learning very hard that looks could be decieving.

There is a site notcanada.com where immigrants describe there horror stories in details and how the canadian givernemnt omits most of the info by luring unsustpected folks into canada only to realise their life savings is scoped by the auathorities and now in order to qualify they need to go back to university to get back into the system.

Chocha Monger

10-23-09, 15:49

Amen to that, I have saved so much time, money and fun by just RTTF and doing multiple research on the same topic by various sources. Most of the folks just go to the west by outside beauty and i go by the rule by learning very hard that looks could be decieving.

There is a site notcanada.com where immigrants describe there horror stories in details and how the canadian givernemnt omits most of the info by luring unsustpected folks into canada only to realise their life savings is scoped by the auathorities and now in order to qualify they need to go back to university to get back into the system.
Born Loser 5:

In my experience when a citizen of the U.S./Canada warns aspiring immigrants about the reality of what is awaiting on the other side they think that person is bullshitting. They think we want to keep them out because we want all of the greener grass for ourselves and they find all kinds of arguments as to why they'll do better than others who preceded them. Then they get there and cry when they realize that the money doesn't come as easy as they expected. They're so blinded by their dreams of getting rich that they ignore information readily obtainable indicating that things wouldn't be so rosy. Foreign doctors know that their credentials isn't worth shit in the U.S. and they'll have to go back to school and sit for U.S. licensing exams plus foreign medical graduate exams. They convince themselves that it will be a piece of cake and that they can afford the expense involved. Many of them end up as lab techs or even cab drivers. They also lose all of the social status and respect that came with their profession in their home country.

One of my Chinese friends said that her little son asked her if money grew on trees. She asked him what in the world gave him that idea. He said that he saw that she was always giving it away so he figured it must grow on trees or something. She told me that she is seriously considering returning to China because it would cost a lot less to live there and she took a hard hit in the U.S. during the recession.

Starchild2012

10-25-09, 16:14

Born Loser 5:

In my experience when a citizen of the U.S./Canada warns aspiring immigrants about the reality of what is awaiting on the other side they think that person is bullshitting. They think we want to keep them out because we want all of the greener grass for ourselves and they find all kinds of arguments as to why they'll do better than others who preceded them. Then they get there and cry when they realize that the money doesn't come as easy as they expected. They're so blinded by their dreams of getting rich that they ignore information readily obtainable indicating that things wouldn't be so rosy. Foreign doctors know that their credentials isn't worth shit in the U.S. and they'll have to go back to school and sit for U.S. licensing exams plus foreign medical graduate exams. They convince themselves that it will be a piece of cake and that they can afford the expense involved. Many of them end up as lab techs or even cab drivers. They also lose all of the social status and respect that came with their profession in their home country.

One of my Chinese friends said that her little son asked her if money grew on trees. She asked him what in the world gave him that idea. He said that he saw that she was always giving it away so he figured it must grow on trees or something. She told me that she is seriously considering returning to China because it would cost a lot less to live there and she took a hard hit in the U.S. during the recession.

Yep...blame it on ignorance and hollywood...:)

Starchild2012

11-11-09, 04:25

Its time to wake up and see the con that the world government is playing on humanity. i don't think many here would believe ever that aliens were already here for the past 5 hundred thousand years and are controlling everything in the world today.

Its really out there, US and UK lie on the energy grid that are important for the Illuminati to control the world.

The point is everyone in America is made and prepared to be a sacrificial lamb for the illuminati to exploit the earth's energy grid. Don't join the army, you are serving the evil master and lucifer.

Australiasucks

11-22-09, 18:29

Starchild2012

11-27-09, 03:00

The Anglo American version of the NWO based on US-British Domination is ending an a new Asian world order is remaining, I live in a country that is turning away from its traditional American-British allies and moving towards Asia.

America's ability to influence the world order is rapidly deteriorating and a new Asian order will dominate this world. The current crisis that is sweeping the USA and the West is not once in a decade or a Century its an and of a 500 year cycle of history that saw white Christian European people dominate this world, that era is now ending.

It is a make believe world, we are been told something, and made to see something while the top folks do their hidden agenda.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/bulgaria/6650677/Aliens-already-exist-on-earth-Bulgarian-scientists-claim.html

The world is been prepared by the government to announce that aliens exists...but that is a lie, aliens were here for thousands of years and were responsible for building most of modern technology.....our history is totally different from what we read in school and media.

But, of course it will seem ridiculous, that is their plan, until they feel it right to disclose alien existence and take humanity to another round of ignorant life.

They made america crash and making it believe Asia is doing good, they dont care about humans let alone american or Asian, its not a conspiracy its their global agenda new world order.

Starchild2012

11-27-09, 03:32

Stunning UFO snake like object caught on video in mexico

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/stunning-ufo-snake-mexico-2009-t12297.html

Starchild2012

12-23-09, 15:13

Bush and reptilians must watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEaTKfd-IcY&feature=player_embedded

satan ruled music industry with proof

http://vigilantcitizen.com/

Chocha Monger

12-27-09, 08:03

Carlos Primeros

12-28-09, 00:01

Hi Concha Monger & Australiasucks.

I think that Asia is the raising star with their own NWO. Europe dominated for a couple of hundred years the WORLD Order, then the declining UK dominated the NWO, now the pedelum swings back again to Asia.

There are no worries for Europe, europe will arrange itself with the NWO, it has in his backyard countries like Russia which will act as a buffer/moderator in the sense of a economical basis. But the US are in the deepest trouble. They are bankrupt, everything they own is on credit from Asia. How shall that situation go on? The US needs a new war with Asia and can only after winning this war (which I think is quite possible) strike off all depts.

The times of Mao Zedong and Father Ho are over, all the Asians have far too much to loose. They have found their paradise, work, family, education, relative stability and they save money. The US citicens have not enough work, do not save money and in their own country they do not have enough stability. (What happens to a guy who gets his foot blown off in Afgahnistan after he comes back to the US and has to leave the military)

These are the reasons why I think that Asia is the raising power which will put its mark on this new century.

Carlos Primeros

Chocha Monger

12-28-09, 01:45

There are many factors that will ensure that China will never become a role model for other countries to follow.

1. One child only policy. China started this rule for families to have only one child in 1979. In China, a male is given more honor than a female; therefore, many families only kept a male child. The females are either aborted or abandoned in orphanages. As a result, male children born outnumber female children at a ratio of 116.9 to 100. After thirty years of this dumb policy, there is now a ratio of 106 men to 100 women throughout the entire country of China. Unfortunately, population control has not helped since more than 1 billion people reside in China. If the Chinese cannot handle this problem of overpopulation, then they will never be able to figure out how to even become a superpower. Think about it: they outnumber every country in the world and they still haven't figured out how to be the #1 country in the world. Maybe Sun TzuSun Tzu's 'Art of War' should have had a section on how to show the Chinese some strategies on becoming a world power.

2. Human Rights Issues. The Chinese government always suppresses anyone who chooses to disagree with the government. They imprison, torture, and kill anyone who chooses to express different views than what the government wants the masses of China to follow. Squelching freedom of expression saps all creativity from the country. Nobody wants to invent or create anything different because of the threat of being killed for just expressing ideas. Therefore, the government keeps the masses of China in a mediocre, stagnant state with no clues on how to become greater.

3. Economic Issues. Gold right now is over one thousand dollars an ounce. Whenever there is an economic crisis, the prices of precious metals skyrocket. What does China do? They invest a majority of their money in USA's T-bills. If the USA collapses in the future, then China would economically collapse as well. China's economic future is directly intertwined with how the USA does. Dependence on another country will never put China into superpower status.

4. Production Issues. China's number one exporter is the USA. However, whatever China makes is extra crappy. The paint on some of the toys they make have more lead in them than a box of pencils. China causes the most pollution throughout the world. Pollution is caused because of ineffective production. China could clear up pollution because the Olympics last year in Beijing was free from pollution. Slothful attitudes will ensure that China will never become a superpower.
http://www.asianoffbeat.com/default.asp?display=1882

http://chinabounder.********.com/2008/07/chinabounder-weekender-part-three.html

Dickhead

12-28-09, 04:24

George90

12-28-09, 05:38

Dickhead

12-28-09, 05:56

nah, the course didn't require calculus or linear algebra, but the problem could have been solved (or partially solved) with either. the issue was, both were overkill. you could have just diagrammed it or talked your way through it. i stole it from reader's digest for chrissakes. i know calculus and i know linear algebra but i've never taught a course that required either of those. statistics i did teach at the college level, but this was a general mba course and i assigned the problem because they were getting too bogged down in methodology and could not see the forest for the trees.

to put it in mongering terms, it was like they were in trocadero, or campo alegre, or walking street in pattaya, and were using trigonometry and triangulation to find hookers. that is not efficient. however, i would also argue that using shirley maclaine films to analyze a culture is fairly intellectually bankrupt as well; that gal is pretty much of a freak show.

i took one course that did require the use of both calculus and linear programming, a graduate level course titled managerial economics. one of the best courses i ever took and one of the best profs i ever had. but, he could not keep his dick in his pants, and ruined his career due to "inappropriate conduct" with female students. some may chalk this up to aws being overly sensitive but i saw this first hand and it was definitely inappropriate and over the top. i think he had plenty of money and didn't really care.

but the moral of the story is, he should have mongered instead of pooping in his lunch pail.

Chocha Monger

12-29-09, 03:33

Starchild2012

01-02-10, 08:03

Very Good info on who is in control of our life's

http://thefreemanperspective.blog spot.com/

Must watch video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfJmn9FkOlU&feature=related

I didn't knew that Marilyn Manroe was cousin of George Bush !!!!

Hillary Clinton is related to Angelia Jolie

Obama is related to Brad Pitt

McCain's related to Britney spears

We know, we all are related to one another in some way back in the ages, but not in the present day we can claim everyone in power is related to us so closely as in cousin's not like man came from single African DNA thing

Its time to wake up guys...We have to cross the gap of what they call "conspiracy" and real hardcore facts..that you can check it in any library in US....

The above are facts, when i first wrote here that all American presidents were freemasons connected to european royalty..people said its co-incidence well 44 times coincidence.

We have been had by our balls for a long time..its time to wake up from the prison of black magicians.

Happy New year.

Starchild2012

01-04-10, 16:32

Stargate Atlantis cast very similar to Obama administration...

http://thefreemanperspective.blog spot.com/2008/04/cern-grid-red-button-day.html

They are giving clues to us to prepare for coming fake alien invasion and world war 3

Clandestine782

01-05-10, 00:47

I had many Chinese students over the years and while they excelled at mathematics, and were excellent students overall, they were not accustomed to independent thinking or unstructured problem solving. One incident that stands out in my mind was giving an extra credit story problem that could be solved using pure logic. They got all bogged down doing calculus and solving simultaneous equations. Not only couldn't they solve the problem but they couldn't understand the solution.

However I once taught a class where 100% of the students were Japanese and those students really sucked. No wonder that economy collapsed. I flunked so many of them on the first exam that I got a friendly visit from my Iranian department head, explaining me about all the culture differences I needed to consider. No. When in Rome do like a Roman or get the fuck out.

So if not China, who will be the next number one? Because the US is toast.I am with you on the logic part. I taught (and still teach) Chinese students. And it is no understatement to say that their logic is shocking. Things that I have seen/ noticed:

1. People here have the idea that if everyone doesn't believe something, then it is not true. So, if something goes down, then the first response of anyone in power will be to try to trick people into believing that it never happened. So, they had the milk scandal here a year or two back and the first official response was to try to cover it up. That way, if no one knew about it, then it didn't happen.

2. This school at which I have just finished my contract is 20,000RMB per year per student (that is about 8x the monthly salary of person who owns a barbecue stand). And in spite of all this, there is not a single heater in a single classroom. We were initially supposed to have an international program for students to take courses (Chemistry/ etc) in English. But there was so much bickering that the program collapsed. So, the school *did* buy heaters for those classrooms. But when the program closed, the school wanted the classrooms emptied. So, the only working heaters in any classrooms also happen to be in empty classrooms. Huh? And they would not hear of moving a working heater to the office (where Chinese staff work)

3. I was also playing on one of the pianos in the rooms here and noticed that between two windows was a space that you couldn't see very well. And if you looked at a certain angle, there were broken desks and trash piled up sky high. But you couldn't easily see it from inside the classroom. So, the reasoning was: "If no on can see it, then it is not there."

And on and on and on.

It is no understatement to me to say that if people in China have a choice between taking 2 steps to try to do something the right way and 5 to hatch some sort of plot, they will take 5 (or 10 or 15) steps to do something the WRONG way.

People have been talking at great length about the huge amounts of foreign investment here, but when I talk to people who owm small stores they will tell me *silly* amounts for start up capital. A store that is about 10 feet by 15 feet and sell drinks here in Sichuan has an initial investment cost of 60,000RMB!! (There is not even that much shit in the whole store.) The store next to that one said their initial start up costs were 90,000RMB. It seems like it takes almost $3 worth of investment to do something in China that it takes in the United States (or anywhere else I have ever seen/ been).

When you talk about teaching Japanese students, they are about the same as Chinese students. But it seems to me that at least Japanese people are thorough and consistent. Think about how much value can be created through reliability of different types (Japan) vs. the amount that can be destroyed by sloppiness/ inconsistency (China).

It's also interesting to question whether or not one really can predict a country's economic performance based on its educational system. The US is not very good at primary education, but I wonder does that really have that much to do with economic performance. I am reading now "The Bell Curve" and can say that it is far from clear.

Starchild2012

01-07-10, 04:12

Chocha Monger

01-09-10, 20:44

by david barboza
friday, january 8, 2010

provided by
the new york times

james s. chanos built one of the largest fortunes on wall street by foreseeing the collapse of enron and other highflying companies whose stories were too good to be true.

now mr. chanos, a wealthy hedge fund investor, is working to bust the myth of the biggest conglomerate of all: china inc.

as most of the world bets on china to help lift the global economy out of recession, mr. chanos is warning that china's hyperstimulated economy is headed for a crash, rather than the sustained boom that most economists predict. its surging real estate sector, buoyed by a flood of speculative capital, looks like "dubai times 1,000 -- or worse," he frets. he even suspects that beijing is cooking its books, faking, among other things, its eye-popping growth rates of more than 8 percent.

"bubbles are best identified by credit excesses, not valuation excesses," he said in a recent appearance on cnbc. "and there's no bigger credit excess than in china." he is planning a speech later this month at the university of oxford to drive home his point.

as america's pre-eminent short-seller -- he bets big money that companies' strategies will fail -- mr. chanos's narrative runs counter to the prevailing wisdom on china. most economists and governments expect chinese growth momentum to continue this year, buoyed by what remains of a $586 billion government stimulus program that began last year, meant to lift exports and consumption among chinese consumers.

still, betting against china will not be easy. because foreigners are restricted from investing in stocks listed inside china, mr. chanos has said he is searching for other ways to make his bets, including focusing on construction- and infrastructure-related companies that sell cement, coal, steel and iron ore.

mr. chanos, 51, whose hedge fund, kynikos associates, based in new york, has $6 billion under management, is hardly the only skeptic on china. but he is certainly the most prominent and vocal.

for all his record of prescience -- in addition to predicting enron's demise, he also spotted the looming problems of tyco international, the boston market restaurant chain and, more recently, home builders and some of the world's biggest banks -- his detractors say that he knows little or nothing about china or its economy and that his bearish calls should be ignored.

"i find it interesting that people who couldn't spell china 10 years ago are now experts on china," said jim rogers, who co-founded the quantum fund with george soros and now lives in singapore. "china is not in a bubble."

colleagues acknowledge that mr. chanos began studying china's economy in earnest only last summer and sent out e-mail messages seeking expert opinion.

but he is tagging along with the bears, who see mounting evidence that china's stimulus package and aggressive bank lending are creating artificial demand, raising the risk of a wave of nonperforming loans.

"in china, he seems to see the excesses, to the third and fourth power, that he's been tilting against all these decades," said jim grant, a longtime friend and the editor of grant's interest rate observer, who is also bearish on china. "he homes in on the excesses of the markets and profits from them. that's been his stock and trade."

mr. chanos declined to be interviewed, citing his continuing research on china. but he has already been spreading the view that the china miracle is blinding investors to the risk that the country is producing far too much.

"the chinese," he warned in an interview in november with politico.com, "are in danger of producing huge quantities of goods and products that they will be unable to sell."

in december, he appeared on cnbc to discuss how he had already begun taking short positions, hoping to profit from a china collapse.

in recent months, a growing number of analysts, and some chinese officials, have also warned that asset bubbles might emerge in china.

the nation's huge stimulus program and record bank lending, estimated to have doubled last year from 2008, pumped billions of dollars into the economy, reigniting growth.

but many analysts now say that money, along with huge foreign inflows of "speculative capital," has been funneled into the stock and real estate markets.

a result, they say, has been soaring prices and a resumption of the building boom that was under way in early 2008 -- one that mr. chanos and others have called wasteful and overdone.

"it's going to be a bust," said gordon g. chang, whose book, "the coming collapse of china" (random house), warned in 2001 of such a crash.

friends and colleagues say mr. chanos is comfortable betting against the crowd -- even if that crowd includes the likes of warren e. buffett and wilbur l. ross jr., two other towering figures of the investment world.

a contrarian by nature, mr. chanos researches companies, pores over public filings to sift out clues to fraud and deceptive accounting, and then decides whether a stock is overvalued and ready for a fall. he has a staff of 26 in the firm's offices in new york and london, searching for other china-related information.

"his record is impressive," said byron r. wien, vice chairman of blackstone advisory services. "he's no fly-by-night charlatan. and i'm bullish on china."

mr. chanos grew up in milwaukee, one of three sons born to the owners of a chain of dry cleaners. at yale, he was a pre-med student before switching to economics because of what he described as a passionate interest in the way markets operate.

his guiding philosophy was discovered in a book called "the contrarian investor," according to an account of his life in "the smartest guys in the room," a book that chronicled enron's rise and downfall.

after college, he went to wall street, where he worked at a series of brokerage houses before starting his own firm in 1985, out of what he later said was frustration with the way wall street brokers promoted stocks.

at kynikos associates, he created a firm focused on betting on falling stock prices. his theories are summed up in testimony he gave to the house committee on energy and commerce in 2002, after the enron debacle. his firm, he said, looks for companies that appear to have overstated earnings, like enron; were victims of a flawed business plan, like many internet firms; or have been engaged in "outright fraud."

that short-sellers are held in low regard by some on wall street, as well as main street, has long troubled him.

short-sellers were blamed for intensifying market sell-offs in the fall 2008, before the practice was temporarily banned. regulators are now trying to decide whether to restrict the practice.

mr. chanos often responds to critics of short-selling by pointing to the critical role they played in identifying problems at enron, boston market and other "financial disasters" over the years.

"they are often the ones wearing the white hats when it comes to looking for and identifying the bad guys," he has said.

Australiasucks

01-10-10, 05:47

I am not sure about China ever becoming a great power. They have numerous problems to overcome like poisonous food products, environmental contamination, dangerous fake products and emerging diseases. Betting on China is like backing a jack ass in a horse race.

There is also the issue of barbarism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506153/Animals-torn-pieces-lions-baying-crowds-spectator-sport-China-DOESNT-want-see.htmlMany of the things that the Chinese do is quite barbaric by Western standards and it would not surprise me to see the West in conflict with China. I also think Europe is going to take on a much stronger role in world affairs, the EU as a federal entity is now a reality, the next several years will be interesting. India is another country on the rise, I think it could be a good counter balance to China.

Chocha Monger

01-11-10, 07:21

One family, One bloodline, One rule..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOnV1DDPQQg&feature=player_embedded

Watch how the same reptilians bloodline has been ruling the world since ancient times. Now even the gyneology is accepting what the conspiracy theorist said all time.

We never selected our leaders, all our heroes and anti heroes were Freemasons.
Born Loser 5:

There are a lot of these reptilian aliens on ISG. You can identify them easily. Aliens are anal probing freaks and you can spot them because they're always looking for anal sex. If you find yourself poking girls in the brown eye then you probably have some alien DNA in your bloodline.

Starchild2012

01-21-10, 16:23

Born Loser 5:

There are a lot of these reptilian aliens on ISG. You can identify them easily. Aliens are anal probing freaks and you can spot them because they're always looking for anal sex. If you find yourself poking girls in the brown eye then you probably have some alien DNA in your bloodline.

:) Yes, Aliens and Illuminati are gays, look at the mind controlled hip hop artists almost all of them are gays. If one wants to become rich and famous...you not only have to sell your soul but your as*s too :)

Here is another link which proves why America was never a free country and it may sound ridiculous but Americans are the real unseen slaves of Satan.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/atlantean_conspiracy/atlantean_conspiracy01.htm

Clandestine782

01-23-10, 20:59

01/21/2010

The World from Berlin
The World Bids Farewell to Obama
US President Barack Obama has had a difficult first year.
Zoom
AFP

US President Barack Obama has had a difficult first year.

US President Barack Obama suffered a painful defeat in Massachusetts on Tuesday. With mid-term elections looming, it means that Obama will have to fundamentally re-think his political course. German commentators say it is the end of hope.

US President Barack Obama has had a number of difficult weeks during his first year in the White House. Right after he took office, he had to wade through a week full of partisan bickering over his economic stimulus package combined with a tax scandal surrounding Tom Daschle, the man Obama had hoped would lead his health care reform team.

Then there was the last week of 2009, when a failed terror attack on a flight inbound for Detroit exposed major flaws in US efforts to identify and stop potential terrorists.

This week, though -- a week when Obama should have been celebrating the first anniversary of his inauguration -- may have been the president's worst yet. Scott Brown, an almost unknown Republican member of the Massachusetts Senate, defeated the Democratic candidate Martha Coakley for the US Senate seat vacated by the death of Senator Edward M. Kennedy. The defeat in a heavily Democratic state not only highlights Obama's massive loss of popular support during his first year in office, but it also could spell doom for his signature effort to reform the US health care system.

PHOTO GALLERY

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17 Photos
Photo Gallery: A Year in the Life of President Obama

There were immediate calls for a suspension of health care votes in the Senate until Brown is sworn in. The loss of the Massachusetts seat means that the Democrats no longer control the 60 Senate seats necessary to avoid a filibuster. Obama's reform package, which aims to provide health insurance to most of the over 40 million Americans currently lacking coverage, may ultimately fail as a result.

More than that, though, the vote shows just how quickly the political pendulum has swung back to the right following Obama's election. The seat Brown won had been in Democratic hands for all but six years since 1926. Now, its new occupant is a man who not only opposes the health care bill, but also favors waterboarding as a method of interrogation for terrorism suspects and rejects carbon cap-and-trade as a means of limiting carbon emissions.

The omen could be a dark one for the Obama administration heading into a mid-term election year. German commentators take a closer look.

Center-left daily Süddeutsche Zeitung writes on Thursday:

"Obama made a serious misjudgement. Right at the beginning of his first year in office, he saved the banks, rescued the automobile industry from collapse and passed a huge economic stimulus package. He had hoped that these enormous deeds would give him the space to address those issues which are dearest to him: health care reform, climate change and investment in education."

"Those issues, however, are clearly not priorities for people in the US at the moment. Scott Brown campaigned on two promises, both of which apparently struck a nerve with the electorate. He wants to block health care reform and he wants to find ways to reduce the enormous budget deficit. It is here where the roots of dissatisfaction with Obama are to be found. His reform agenda, in its current form, is highly suspect to Americans. And they have the impression that, if he continues piling up debt, he will be gambling away the country's future."

The Financial Times Deutschland writes:

"For Obama, the election in Massachusetts means that he will have to re-evaluate his political style. He could now focus his concentration on his political base and push through his policy agenda. After all, he still has a majority in Congress -- he could back away from his strategy of bipartisanship ... which would mean giving up much of what he spent his first year in office creating."

"More likely, however, is that Obama will interpret the Massachusetts loss as a signal that he should move further toward the middle and make more concessions to the conservatives -- even if this alienates his base even further, a base which had high expectations from the 'yes we can' candidate."

"For everyone else in the world, this means that they will have to bid farewell to a candidate for whom the hopes were so high. They will have to say goodbye to the charisma they fell in love with. Obama will be staying home after all."

The left-leaning daily Die Tageszeitung writes:

"In addition to health care reform, Obama's reputation has primarily been harmed by the high unemployment rate and the increasingly unpopular war in Afghanistan. It will become even more difficult in the future for the president to push projects through successfully. Not just because Republicans now have a means of preventing it, but also because the Democratic camp is deeply divided. Some would like to see the party shift toward the center -- wherever that may be -- whereas others want the party to position itself to the left. Such a battle is hardly a good sign for the mid-term elections in November. Massachusetts could prove to be an omen."

The center-right Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung writes:

"Of course the president rejects the interpretation that the Massachusetts election was a referendum on his first year in the White House. But he cannot ignore the fact that his health care reform package is not popular, the situation of the country's finances is seen as threatening and many voters blame the high unemployment rate on the party in power -- on the Democrats, led by Obama. The result is a second year in office full of very different challenges than the first. To save what there is to be saved, Obama will have to be prepared to fashion a bipartisan compromise on health care -- a compromise with a Republican Party which has tasted blood and can now dream once again about a return to power."

-- Charles Hawley
Social Networks

Clandestine782

01-23-10, 21:01

too much of a bad thing
who’s panting for obama speech number 412? exactly no one.

by mark steyn

so what went wrong? according to barack obama, the problem is he overestimated you dumb rubes’ ability to appreciate what he’s been doing for you. “that i do think is a mistake of mine,” the president told abc’s george stephanopoulos. “i think the assumption was if i just focus on policy, if i just focus on this provision or that law or if we’re making a good rational decision here, then people will get it.”

but you schlubs aren’t that smart. you didn’t get it. and barack obama is determined to see that you do. so the president has decided that he needs to start “speaking directly to the american people.”

wait, wait! come back! don’t all stampede for the hills! he only gave (according to cbs news’s mark knoller) 158 interviews and 411 speeches in his first year. that’s more than any previous president — and maybe more than all of them put together. but there may still be some show out there that didn’t get its exclusive obama interview — i believe the top-rated grain & livestock prices report — 4 a.m. update with herb torpormeister on wzzz-am dead buzzard gulch junction’s newstalk leader is still waiting to hear back from the white house.

but what will the president be saying in all these extra interviews? in that interview about how he hadn’t given enough interviews, he also explained to george stephanopoulos what that wacky massachusetts election was all about:

“the same thing that swept scott brown into office swept me into office,” said obama. “people are angry and they’re frustrated, not just because of what’s happened in the last year or two years but what’s happened over the last eight years.”

got it. people are so angry and frustrated at george w. bush that they’re voting for republicans. in massachusetts. boy, i can’t wait for that 159th interview.

presumably, the president isn’t stupid enough actually to believe what he said. but it’s dispiriting to discover he’s stupid enough to think we’re stupid enough to believe it.

so who’s panting for that 412th speech? not the american left. as paul krugman, the new york times’s “conscience of a liberal,” put it: “he wasn’t the one we’ve been waiting for.”

not the once-delirious europeans, either. as the headline in der spiegel put it: “the world bids farewell to obama.”

and not any beleaguered democratic candidates trying to turn things around in volatile swing states like, er, massachusetts. the barack obama who showed up last sunday to help out martha coakley was a sad and diminished figure from the colossus of a year ago. he had nothing to say, but he said it anyway. as he did with his copenhagen pitch for the olympics, he put his personal prestige on the line, raised the stakes, and then failed to deliver. all those cool kids on his speechwriting team bogged him down in the usual leaden sludge. he went to the trouble of flying in to phone it in.

the most striking aspect of his performance was how unhappy he looked, as if he doesn’t enjoy the job. you can understand why. he ran as something he’s not, and never has been: a post-partisan, centrist, transformative healer. that’d be a difficult trick to pull off even for somebody with any prior executive experience, someone who’d actually run something, like a state, or even a town, or even a commercial fishing operation, like that poor chillbilly boob sarah palin. at one point late in the 2008 campaign, when someone suggested that if governor palin was “unqualified” then surely he was too, obama pointed out as evidence to the contrary his ability to run such an effective campaign. in other words, running for president was his main qualification for being president.

that was the story of his life: wow! look at this guy! wouldn’t it be great to have him . . . as community organizer, as state representative, as state senator, as united states senator. he was wafted ever upwards, staying just long enough in each “job” to get another notch on the escutcheon, but never long enough to leave any trace.

the defining moment of his doomed attempt to prop up martha coakley was his peculiar obsession with scott brown’s five-year-old pickup:

“forget the ads. everybody can run slick ads,” the president told an audience of out-of-state students at a private school. “forget the truck. everybody can buy a truck.”

how they laughed! but what was striking was the thinking behind obama’s line: that anyone can buy a truck for a slick ad, that brown’s pickup was a prop — like the herd of cows al gore rented for a pastoral backdrop when he launched his first presidential campaign. or the iron chef tv episode featuring delicious, healthy recipes made with produce direct from michelle obama’s “kitchen garden”: the cameras filmed the various chefs meeting the first lady and then picking choice organic delicacies from the white house crop, and then for the actual cooking the show sent out for stunt-double vegetables from a grocery back in new york. viewed from obama’s perspective, why wouldn’t you assume the truck’s just part of the set? “in his world,” wrote the weekly standard’s stephen hayes, “everything is political and everything is about appearances.”

howard fineman, the increasingly loopy editor of the increasingly doomed newsweek, took it a step further. the truck wasn’t just any old prop but a very particular kind: “in some places, there are codes, there are images,” he told msnbc’s keith olbermann. “you know, there are pickup trucks, you could say there was a racial aspect to it one way or another.”

ah, yes. scott brown has over 200,000 miles on his odometer. man, he’s racked up a lot of coded racism on that rig. but that’s easy to do in notorious cross-burning kkk swamps like suburban massachusetts.

whenever aspiring writers ask me for advice, i usually tell ’em this:

don’t just write there, do something. learn how to shingle a roof, or tap-dance, or raise sled dogs. because if you don’t do anything, you wind up like obama and fineman — men for whom words are props and codes and metaphors but no longer expressive of anything real.

america is becoming a bilingual society, divided between those who think a pickup is a rugged vehicle useful for transporting heavy-duty items from a to b and those who think a pickup is coded racism.

unfortunately, the latter group forms most of the democrat-media one-party state currently running the country. can you imagine bill clinton being so stupid as to put down pickup trucks while standing next to john kerry? and what’s even more extraordinary is that those lines were written for obama by paid professionals.

but fine, have it your way. tuesday’s vote was really a plea by a desperate people for even more obama. we’re going to need even more obama teleprompters, even more obama speeches, even more sonorous banalities unrelated to action, even more “let me be clears” prefacing even more tinny generalities, on even more reams of even more double-spaced paper. and we’re gonna need a really heavy-duty rig to carry all that verbiage.

maybe scott brown can sell ’em his truck.

Starchild2012

02-01-10, 05:21

***WARNING*** to those living in America. You may wanna get out of America now as things are gonna get nasty. Especially folks living on 11 western states.

AR, OR or CA....Illuminati has planned the big one starting from Feb 1 up until Feb 14 2010 and to the end 2012. Its going to be really really hell. Earthquake or Financial collapse and then martial law and FEMA camps.

http://illuminatimatrix.wordpress.com/49-december-19-55-days-before-2010-olympics-health-care-reform-bill-passes-merging-merying-marrying-the-health-care-reform-bill-climate-change-conference-frustrates-50-days-before-olympics/

Not to scare or fear monger.....I been following the illuminati stuff for some time and their plan for us is really hellish. Good Luck

Chocha Monger

02-02-10, 11:00

Westy

02-02-10, 20:17

Starchild2012

02-03-10, 16:07

Born Loser 5:

Are we to take a secret organization that apparently can’t keep any of its secret plans off the internet seriously? All these leaks of sinister secret plans on the internet would be an indication of gross incompetence on the part of any organization operating in the shadows. Wouldn’t people poking their noses into the business of such a powerful subversive group be made to disappear or, at least, confined to a mental institution?

By the way, did you hear the one about the Illuminati’s grand scheme to harvest the sperm of men living in and visiting Asia? Expect sperm extraction activities to intensify in places like the Philippines and Thailand peaking in 2012 when they will have enough to put their final plan into motion. Remaining celibate is the only way to avoid contributing your seed to the Illuminati’s final endgame.

Conspiracy theorist were never wrong ever. Name one event where CT went wrong. They said ages ago about NWO, EU and collapse of US financial system. Fluoride in water and toothpaste ?

Its a real fact...Americans should seriously ask..

What the hell is a Pyramid with all seeing eye doing in American one dollar Bill ?..what does it mean...Does america have Pyramids?

What does Latin words in American dollar bill doing...is Latin the spoken language in America? what does order ab chao mean? what does Novas order seclorum mean?

When people start to ask why blood is the second most used word in bible after god...people start to see answers.

Why were all American presidents Freemasons? Why all Americans presidents are connected to Europeans royal families...Doesn't it ring a bell, that even president barak obama is linked to royals?

its occult...not secret.......they are dark magicians ..so they have a rule that..before they kill you...they need to tell you that they would..else the magic spells don't work. People use secret societies name for the word convenience. really they are sorcerers of Atlantis and aliens

They wrote the bible, khuran and every religious book ever written and now they are simply following it. we are trying to decipher what they told us and what their next move gonna be. its never perfect....its a war between us humanity and aliens.

John Todd, William cooper, fritz springmeir, rik clay were all killed by the Illuminati.

People still believe there is something called Islamic terrorism, when before 911..they used all the symbology from Simpsons to prince song that they are going to attack WTC on 911 .

They are doing the same now, using nuclear symbols in boom boom music to book of eli which shows post apocalyptic days.

Freemason are selling their buildings en mass in US. They have done with America. Now their work is to destroy it, and thats why all post apocalyptic movies.

Regarding mental institution John Todd was put into mental institution and then silenced for ever.

Start with One dollar bill description from Jordan Maxwell. These are stuff that will truly shake one person core belief.

Starchild2012

02-03-10, 16:25

A contributor to another board, who lives in a city that President Obama is visiting today, told of this sign held by a protester:

"Obama is Washington's Juan Peron"

That one hits too close to the bone - especially for anyone who knows more about Peronism than the song "Don't Cry For Me, Argentina."

Any comments?

He is much much worse....he will crucify America...people really really really have no clue what Obama really is... until people start looking at his ancestry and his connection to Egypt..they are living in dark and will be sacrificed.

Lets ask ourself some facts ..lest we say ohh its conspiracy....What are the odds that Obama is connected to royal bloodlines in Egypt and Europe..when he was supposedly born to a simple white women in hawaii with a keynian father.

I mean common, what are the odds that, even with that simplicity, he is connected to Cheney and bush ...how convenient, for a man to live a simple life and then find out, he is connected to all the US presidents one way or the other and then become presidents himself...common...what are the odds here... do you think we are born yesterday..

I have been fu*8cking all my life all around the world and i ain't got any cousins no where who is connected to royal families in europe....i bet no one does in ISG either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOnV1DDPQQg

I'm not making this up...you can do your own research and even Obama acknowledges that he is the cousin of Cheney. hell, he is even related to Hugh Hefner and brad pitt.

How is this co-incidence...everything fits perfectly and still the world goes to hell. Our life ain't getting better if it was a mere co-incidence after co-incidence which indecently works in their favor...its about time people should have a serious look around what the hell is really going on...

Australiasucks

02-08-10, 03:04

How could Obama be worse than Bush? Its obvious American's have an issue with Obama because of his skin color, if he was white with a name like Barry Dunham no one would have a problem with him. Australia is bad but America seems to be even worse.

Clandestine782

02-08-10, 08:44

how could obama be worse than bush? its obvious american's have an issue with obama because of his skin color, if he was white with a name like barry dunham no one would have a problem with him. australia is bad but america seems to be even worse.not necessarily do people have a problem with obama's skin color. it could be some of his actual behavior (and even if it is his skin color, there could be a logical reason for it--more below). there is an author, thomas sowell (black man), whom i read all the time and who is very intelligent. his columns have never said anything positive about obama. then there is also larry elder (also a black man and much younger than sowell). he's also a conservative. if you read reason.com magazine or wsj, you will see that they have not been complimentary to the current president. what do all of those articles have in common? they have reasoned cases as to why they don't like him. just to give you an example of one of each (and won't synopsize too much with the assumption that if you really want to be informed you'll just to and look up these free/ public access articles):

1. sowell: among many other things, he does not like the way that obama has chosen to compromise intelligence information by choosing to hold some of the guantanamo trials in the united states.

2. elder: he has talked about the health care bill in moderate depth (thought not as much as reason magazine) and noted that it is 2000 pages long and congress/ the president are trying very hard to obfurep001e its content by trying to ram it through.

3. reason magazine. they have written some much longer articles. i could point you to their discussion of his deceptive words used in discussing his "budget freeze"-- and how it has no basis in reality and is based on excessively optimistic projections.

4. wsj. there is a little bit each time. they talk about his ideas to make the income tax progressive (they seem to like flat taxes better-- and with this, i would concur).

another thing that you must consider (and you are not american, so you may never have even been to the states and even if you did you wouldn't notice something as specific as this) is that: whenever black american people are at the head of any city/ administrative structure, it is as good as finished. there have been many examples of where there was a functioning city somewhere in the states (detroit, michigan is right up the highway from where i grew up) was taken over by a black administration and promptly collapsed. ecorse. highland park. detroit. east st. louis. washington park. and that's just in the michigan/ illinois area. (yes, east st. louis is in illinois, and not missouri.) there are also places that are not quite under black control but have enough black people in them to go over the tipping point. that could be washington, dc-- which has something like the lowest educational results in the country but the #1 spending per capita. it also has the highest aids rate in the whole country-- and is coincidentally heavily black. don't even get started about the crime rate. and on and on and on......... everyone knows these things, but you can't say them in polite company-- even if it is almost too obvious to need elaboration.

i can go one step further and point out that there is no single city in the united states that was on the verge of collapse that was then taken over by black people who went about the business of developing it. but the other way around? examples aplenty.

don't you think that if you had paid for a house in the states and you earned your retirement money in us dollars, that you would be something like concerned about the administration of the country? does it make you a racist so to be? if you can find that you find black people and some problems associated with each other way too often to be accident, does it make you racist to acknowledge it?

i'll stop with an example that i read by steven landsburg. he talked about drug searches in some particular place along the stretch of highway (i believe that this was in his book "more sex is safer sex"), and that blacks were stopped at 4x the rate of whites-- but that both of them were found with drugs in equal measures. he said that then it *did* make better (economic) sense to stop blacks for searches more often than whites because they were carrying drugs in spite of the higher chance of being stopped. it's not a leap of imagination to imagine that a higher percentage of blacks would be carrying drugs if they were stopped in proportion to their numbers in the population. and you can conclude that, yes, there are proportionally more things among some groups of people than others. so........if you see destroyed cities and black americans in proximity to each other, what does your economic reasoning tell you about balancing the cost of putting them in charge as an elected official against being color blind?

Clandestine782

02-09-10, 02:59

http://reason.com/archives/2010/02/08/back-to-the-drawing-board

Australiasucks

02-14-10, 19:16

If the US is in trouble then Australia is screwed too, we have Asians taking us over. I don't hate them but do not want them changing our economy.

Clandestine782

03-10-10, 11:09

the president’s habit of telling untruths

matt welch from the april 2010 issue

here’s how predictable the president’s slippery relationship with the truth has become: hours before the state of the union address, washington examiner reporter timothy p. carney posted a “pre-emptive fact check” that, among other things, prebutted any presidential claim to have “stopped the revolving door between government and corporate lobbying.” as it happened, that night barack obama made an even bolder (read: less truthful) claim: that “we’ve excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs.”

in fact, more than 40 former lobbyists work in the administration, including such policy makers as deputy defense secretary william j. lynn (who was lobbying for raytheon as recently as 2008), office of the first lady director of policy and projects jocelyn frye (national partnership for women and families), white house director of intergovernmental affairs cecilia muñoz (national council of la raza), and treasury secretary chief of staff mark patterson (goldman sachs).

when carney confronted a white house spokeswoman with the falsehood, she conceded nothing. “as the president said,” she wrote, “we have turned away lobbyists for many, many positions.” just not all of them.

as such defiance suggests, this was no isolated slip of the tongue. the president, who promised in both word and style to usher in a “new era” of washington “responsibility,” routinely says things that aren’t true and supports initiatives that break campaign promises. when called on it, he mostly keeps digging. and when obliged to explain why american voters are turning so sharply away from his party and his policies, obama pins the blame not on his own deviations from verity but on his failure to “explain” things “more clearly to the american people.”

take the issue he has explained more than any other: health care. in the state of the union address, obama claimed that the congressional budget office (cbo) had estimated that “our approach” to health care reform “would bring down the deficit by as much as $1 trillion over the next two decades.” this is, strictly speaking, not true. the democrats’ “approach” to health care reform includes a permanent change to the medicare reimbursement rates for doctors, colloquially known as the “doc fix.” the cbo estimated that the doc fix, when combined with the health care reform legislative package, actually “would increase the budget deficit in 2019 by $23 billion relative to current law, an increment that would grow in subsequent years.” this is why house democrats stripped out the doc fix from the health care bill, and passed it separately; it made the cbo scores look bad, making it harder for the president to present bogus claims about deficit neutrality.

that bit of mendacity only scratches the surface of how congress and the administration gamed the system to produce nice-looking numbers. the cbo, by its own rules, has to take congress at its word when a piece of legislation promises unspecified future “cuts” in spending, even though an overwhelming majority of promised future cuts never come to pass (a fact that the cbo itself has repeatedly warned in supplementary comments). the senate promised more than $300 billion in such cuts. furthermore, the cbo scores bills in 10-year windows. so the senate delayed more than 99 percent of the reform package’s spending until 2014, thus allowing the decade of 2010–2019 to clock in under the magic $1 trillion number. add to all that chicanery the fact that every major health care entitlement expansion in u.s. history has vastly exceeded initial cost projections, and you have ample reasons for why americans believed, by a margin of more than 3 to 1, that health care reform would exacerbate rather than improve the deficit.

even when addressing black-and-white examples of broken promises —such as his vow to televise each and every bit of health care legislative negotiations on c-span—obama can’t quite resist the temptation to plead gray. when confronted directly on the broken c-span pledge during a january meeting with gop lawmakers, the president said: “look, the truth of the matter is that if you look at the health care process—just over the course of the year—overwhelmingly the majority of it actually was on c-span, because it was taking place in congressional hearings in which you guys were participating.”

presidential defiance, dissembling, and disinformation are nothing new, even if such political perennials are more disappointing coming from someone who still boasts (as he did in the state of the union address) of “telling hard truths” to the american people and “doing what’s best for the next generation.” voters pretty much knew that bill clinton was a slime ball when they sent him to the white house; barack obama held out the promise of being more dignified.

the difference between these two most recent democratic presidents, substantial to begin with (especially in the crucial area of economic policy), may come into sharper relief in 2010. clinton’s reptilian relationship with the truth, suffused as it always has been with a catch-me-if-you-can sense of personal preservation, actually turned out to have some uses for the nation when he changed course after the 1994 republican revolution and began co-opting some of the limited-government policies proposed by his opponents. it’s easier for a chameleon to change his spots.

obama’s dishonesty, by contrast, seems to spring from a different place. as a man who has spent most of his career wowing people with his words and very little of it converting those words into deeds, he has an activist’s gap between rhetoric and reality and a radio broadcaster’s promiscuous carelessness with cutting rhetorical corners. sure, it’s not technically true that the administration’s day-one lobbying reforms served “to get rid of the influence of…special interests,” as he claimed in a january radio address (to the contrary: federal lobbying in 2009 set an all-time record), but it’s easy to imagine that the president feels his combination of tighter employment restrictions for ex-lobbyists and stricter disclosure requirements for current ones is, in the context of the manichean fight between “the people” and “special interests,” good enough for government work. the perfect shouldn’t be the enemy of the good, and the critics who complain are just opportunistic literalists grasping for any club to beat back the march of progress. no need to give them an inch.

but there’s a less charitable explanation too. during the president’s nonstop gabfests before, during, and after the state of the union speech, he kept repeating the fiction that the medical industry’s “special interests” were significantly to blame for scotching his health care legislation. in fact, the administration and congress negotiated with those interests every step of the way, receiving crucial buy-in and millions in campaign contributions. pro-reform lobbyists outspent anti-reform lobbyists on advertising by a factor of 5 to 1. there’s a three-letter word for blaming the defeat of his bill on health care lobbyists, and it rhymes with pie.

and yet it smacks of something worse still. when a politician cannot fathom opposition to his policies except as the manifestation of wicked manipulation by bad guys, remediable only by more thorough “explanations” from the good guys, it indicates an unseemly paternalism. and if he cannot take the hint that bush-obama bailout-and-spend economics are deeply and increasingly unpopular, that indicates something immovable about his core economic ideology. with those two factors as backdrop, it’s hard to say which would be worse: if the president didn’t really believe what he said, or if he did.

matt welch (matt.welch@reason.com) is editor in chief of reason.

Westy

03-22-10, 16:45

ABC News, March 21, 2010:

The House of Representatives passed the sweeping health care bill 219-212, securing a significant victory for President Obama, who lobbied hard this week for the controversial legislation. Link here (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/health-care-bill-house-passes-sweeping-reform-legislation/story?id=10162080)Despite protests, "tea parties," town-hall testimony, and the will of the American people, 219 of the "elected nobility" of the United States decided they knew better and passed this monstrosity. At least they did, evidently, have an up-and-down vote.

They don't need the Senate to sign off on their "reconciliation". I bet Emperor Obama, ar-rahimi, ar-rahmani, is just waiting for a sunny day in the Rose Garden to put his regal imprimatur on the document - signing away one more "right," that to take care of your body as you see fit, in the interest of "compassion to the poor".

Yeah, I know, I know, the Kirchners are worse. There are worse countries in the world, for personal freedom. But the sticking-point here isn't really "health care as we know it," it's the President and Congress chipping away at our liberties in the USA.

Nyc Expat

03-22-10, 21:18

It's the President and Congress chipping away at our liberties in the USA.

You are terribly wrong. The right wingers have used incorrect, scare tactics. It is every citizens right to proper affordable health care.

While we're on the topic of the Obama Admin. 131 Republicans voted against the stimulus package one year ago. These same 131 hypocrates have taken millions upon millions of the money for their state.

Republicans are not taking the majority interest of their constituents but waging a shameful revolt against the Democratic congress and American citizens. They are simply put sore (the original biggest) losers. They have been conducting themselves unbecoming of a civil servant at every democratic president since JFK. BTW, does anyone know Limbaugh's departure date for Costa Rica?

Australiasucks

03-26-10, 05:29

Change is happening but if you live outside the US, in many ways, the US is sinking in its reputation. In Australia, Kevin Rudd is aggressively pro China, pretty much betting Australia's future on Asia. Even the left wing New York Times finds it troubling. His predecessor John Howard, was fiercely pro America like most Australian leaders. America is less on the news in the US these days...at least for positive news. People pay more attention to Asia.

Obama is popular with ordinary people around the world, extremely popular in Australia where he is planning to visit but many world leaders know the reality. Sarkozy called Obama weak, and its clear that the US-Israeli relationship is fraying, Joe Biden's strong words are very uncharacteristic for an American leader. Since when does a Frenchman call an American President weak?

Jan 156

03-26-10, 08:18

America's 'changing reputation' is, IMHO, quite a superficial thing and largely just an up-and-down with its main allies, including my own country. Bush symbolised many things that large proportions of allied countries find/found offensive - one-upmanship, aggressive foreign policies, big business conflicts of interest, massive support for Israel in spite of that country's human rights breaches, passionately held and intrusive religion, and so on. Obama's image is much softer on nearly every one of those, and skin colour is less of an issue to populations in America's allies than it is in America.

These things are superficial in the sense that they are soft data - opinions and so on - even when statistically evaluated as has been done on a number of occasions.

The more core issues only change slightly if at all and are only in part under the President's control, as in any democracy. One is world money. Financially, China is steadily rising in global power and influence, and due to much stronger forces than mere politics.

The second is the effects of foreign policy over the years. America, like my own country, is a shaper of nations. Sometimes with lots if good intent, or sometimes the good intent is little more than internal marketing, to it's own peoples and those of its allies. In most cases, less powerful countries are devastated, changed or destroyed, usually to the benefit of the allies and usually - beyond superficial niceties - with their power to determine their own future set back significantly. This 'shaping' - whether in the form of military bombardment or economic occupation and control - is usually apparent to people on the ground. Holding an 'opinion' on such forces is a luxury - mostly they are more concerned with basics like having enough food, not stepping on a landmine, and trying not to get ill in the absence of health-care. To like or not like America other 'big players' frequent comes down to trying to manipulate aid packages to least disadvantage or trying to stay invisible.

Europe (including the country where I live most of the time) has long done absolution of generations for it's crimes against humanity associated with colonisation. These days, it is often judged on how much it supports or dissociates from the far more influential American policy. Europeans are less protected from the atrocities committed by their own governments than the U.S.A., but most of it still goes by most people unless they engage in extensive non-tourist travel and try to understand from the grass roots up (or the economically marginalised or natural resources removed or the napalmed or bombed or landmined or petty-dictator-installed interferences by CIAs, Mossads, MI6s, Vaticans - and that's before even considering beginners like the militant Islamic would-be shapers or big-business Christian fundamentalists).

So why should America care what other nations think of it? It is not, for instance, reliant on tourism. Every country has to deal with a level of corruption, incompetency, or simply bad calls in its government. Does it suck to be ashamed of one's country? Of course it does. But each if us has only limited abilities to change things. Other than that we should be patriotic (without bashing other countries) or emigrate to somewhere else.

It's difficult at times to reconcile the good and the bad things about one's country. To not make judgements about oneself or others. To avoid the blame game. The thing we are good at in the 'West' - America, Europe, Australia - is material accomplishment. The discipline to get things done. To engineer raw materials into the necessities of physical survival. But the pressures of doing so are often a big distraction from everything else. In many poor countries, places where the material side of things is less well accomplished, there is also less distraction. You either have enough food or you don't - simpler equations. What these nations are often very good at are the less material things. Knowing oneself, being able to communicate openly with others. Being able to smile just for the joy of living, of being alive, or of the company of another. This is also a good space to develop things like deeply held values, ideals, positive things. The West often finds these things difficult, even after putting lots of energy into them. When that is lacking, the human spirit looks for substitute joy, substitute ecstacy. Many parts of Europe have problems with teenage drunkenness. Or football madness/hooliganism. In America, people turn to new brands of religion or drugs to replace that inner sense of joy in living which is absent. Australia struggles to find a sense of important goals and values (beyond, say, going down the beach for a barbie - which by the way is nice of course). East and West are both full of strengths snd full of weaknesses. Like the 'battle of the sexes', too much energy is often spent defending one's own corner instead of genuinely trying to see things from a totally different perspective.

Many mongers go abroad as tourists, alone or with buddies, and take their own country in a protective 5-star bubble around them. Some want to go a bit further and, in seeking out p4p, develop a real interest in the countries they visit and the new perspectives. They learn new things about themselves and (the pay check calling) take them back to their own country, enriched by the experience.

Yes, I maybe hear you say, but what about the thousands of 'third-worlders' that come to western countries but end up staying. It would be more helpful if they came to the West to learn useful material skills and took those skills home to regenerate the material welfare if their own country (useful ones - not bomb-making or how to lay landmines - we unfortunately export those without any effort on their part).

I quite agree. :)

Australiasucks

03-26-10, 15:06

You should spend time in Australia for an extended period of time, its not going to be "Western" for much longer. Most white Aussies are backward bogans these days, white Australia is at a moral collapse, high rates of stupidity. The most forward thinking group in Australia right now are the Chinese, they will eventually eclipse Anglo Aussies as the dominant group.

In the US, you have issues with Spanish speaking immigration, I spent a few years on the West Coast, traveled also to the East and quite a few places, its a well known fact that many Euro Americans do not like Hispanics. If that is false, please explain the Minutemen and all those other xenophobe movements. Australia had a xenophobe by the name of Pauline Hanson who tried to stir up anti Asian sentiment in the 1990s, she failed, she now left Australia. From what I know, the US will be majority Spanish speaking in a couple of decades, especially the Southwest. You cannot survive in Miami speaking English, cannot even clean toilets. Third worlders coming to the West? The West is fucked, get used to it. We dug our own grave.

Jelly Donut

03-27-10, 03:00

its a well known fact
The United States is a country based on law. That is, the only thing that ultimately defines you as American is essentially legal. You can be a Russian-speaking native of Homer, Alaska or an Italian-speaking native of Boston's North End; the thing that holds you together, unlike many countries, is a fragile definition based on paper. This is the crux of why "Minutemen" have a problem with anyone who is in the United States illegally.

This is not to argue your point "its a well known fact that many Euro Americans do not like Hispanics". Many Hispanics do not like Euro Americans. Many people in Group X do not like Group Y. Many in Group Y do not like Group B. And so on. Embracing your point, I'd say it applies across all people and across time. The United States is dedicated to the idea that people are created equal, endowed with rights which are not the product of government, but the product of something more profound. Something which transcends your tribe.

I think you are also right on this point, things change. It's entirely true the United States today is not going to be the same in 100 years. At least if history shows us anything. If you look at how things were in 1910 and 1810, you find vast differences in the culture, economy, society, politics, morality, music, law. So, it should not surprise anyone to imagine the country will be much different over time. But it's not always clear how things are going to shift.

If, 500 years ago if you had said, "obviously China is going to be the dominant force in global history and culture over the coming 500 years", you could have mustered many facts and put together a very convincing argument. Certainly, you would have been in a much better position than anyone saying that Indian or Arab culture (the next most obvious choices) would dominate. If you had suggested that, say, England would really shape things the most, with Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Russia rounding out the pack, well, people would have thought you were joking or not quite right in the head. Hopefully, someone would politely change the subject.

Not me. You might notice I mentioned Spain above. Spain and Spanish culture is Western. Goya. Cervantes. Magellan. I'd just caution you if you think the United States will change radically if it becomes more "Latin" (or, frankly, even Mandarin). It might be different, but it's not obvious to me how it would be different. I would not want to predict and I don't figure I will give a hoot in 100 years anyway.

Australiasucks

03-28-10, 16:22

Well the analysis I see from the behavior of most your countrymen during the town hall "debates" is anything to go by, America is becoming more ungovernable. People were bringing guns to debates? Tea parties?? WTF.

Forget about the next 100 years, American influence will decline substantially over the next 20 years. Many people thought Obama was going to be America's Superman. Rolling Stone even had a picture of Obama as "A New Hope" alluding to him being Luke Skywalker. Whatever. The people in your country are the ones who make it run, the leadership is there to govern and guide and they, both parties, are doing everything possible to polarize America like nothing before.

I lived in America during the late 1990s, had a great experience but packed my bags after the tech crash in 2000. There are many similarities between the US and Australia, many are quite obvious. Both are democratic, both are built by immigrants and their descendants. In some ways America accommodates immigrants better, in some ways its Australia, I used to see people with mortgages and cars in California who could not speak a word of English and lived there for decades. Then again people just off the boat in Australia have access to our social services. Australians tend to be more passive in life, most people in Australia do not care that Oz is becoming an Asian country. They largely look on it as a good thing, for our pocketbooks it has been very good. Americans are more pro-active, hence the very vigorous debate about immigration in the US.

That being said, I think life will go on in America, and it will in Australia, but things will be different. For much of the 20th Century, America was the center of attention for the planet, its starting to lose this. Even in Australia, I see a lot more about Asia on the news than the US.

The real reason Euro Americans do not like Hispanics is due to the fact that many do not integrate into mainstream America and form parallel communities, also they tend to compete with working class whites and other Americans for jobs, I know African Americans who do not like them as well because of this. I spent five years in California, and I think I know what I am talking about. Also in many border states, working class whites have to compete with Mexicans, and the Mexicans take jobs for lower pay, pushing wages down. Working class Aussies do not really compete with any illegals, even a truck driver can earn about 120k a year. I also vividly remember when you call a business in the US you have to press 1 for English 2 for Spanish. WTF??? In that case why not accommodate the other non Anglo people? Asians, and others in the US, who wind up learning English.

Jan 156

03-29-10, 21:39

The real reason Euro Americans do not like Hispanics is due to the fact that many do not integrate into mainstream America and form parallel communities, also they tend to compete with working class whites and other Americans for jobs, I know African Americans who do not like them as well because of this. I spent five years in California, and I think I know what I am talking about. Also in many border states, working class whites have to compete with Mexicans, and the Mexicans take jobs for lower pay, pushing wages down. Working class Aussies do not really compete with any illegals, even a truck driver can earn about 120k a year. I also vividly remember when you call a business in the US you have to press 1 for English 2 for Spanish. WTF??? In that case why not accommodate the other non Anglo people? Asians, and others in the US, who wind up learning English.

I believe you may be quite correct

I also believe it may in fact be down to a confusion of policies. Most Western countries are quite comfortable materially and don't have to worry about real 'values.' One of the values that easily slips down the drain is any sense of nationhood, true patriotism. I don't mean flag-waving and endless rhetoric about 'our great nation.' But the sort of non-antagonistic pride that flows from self-knowledge and pride in one's own integrity.*

Consequently, immigration policies lack clear guidance. They are based on economic considerations without considering the essential qualities that gives people of any nation a sense of 'home' (and yet which vary from nation to nation). They are then dressed up with some human rights verbiage.

Asian immigrants often have a non-material advantage: their goals, whether laudable or not (and usually they are), means they are very focussed, and compete in the market place through dint of inner fortitude honed by years of material privation. (Not all Asian nations - Cambodians, for instance, happily treasure the ability to lie in a hammock while their immigrants develop the marketplace with hard work.)

The remedy is to get in touch with one's country's roots, separate out that which is wholesome from that which is pernicious, and adhere to the wholesome roots that are still relevant, as far as it is one's individual will to to so.

In America's case, this would mean exemplifying enterprise, creating big projects from tiny beginnings, but also ditching the neckchain of market-force religion that destroys it's power to think, act, even aspire, in a manner that is wholly from the heart (rather than some psychologically impregnated persona they call Christ). In other words, not likely to happen - not for a hundred years or so at least. So in terms of this generation, the US is a sinking ship unless you are a martyr to the future generations of the truly free.

One either has to love one's country, try to change it, or leave. There aren't really any other healthy options.

But the difficulty of even discussing this is that an American identifies very strongly with his country anyway - much more than a European or probably even an Australian. So any criticism of the system or judgement on the country is often taken as a personal affront rather than just a single academic observation that can be examined unemotionally. We will digress with the logical error of saying that 'many problems belong to other countries as well,' which is true, but sidesteps an issue too sensitive to raise. One has maybe to bear in mind that the U.S. is an enormous country, and many of its citizens have little or no idea of what it is like from a true external perspective (something I frequently hear from solo American travellers.) How can we discuss American greatness without bowing down in worship, without silencing constructive thoughts that are expressed only from a genuine love and respect of all that is good in America. For many decent Americans, even the thought is taboo.

*And we shouldn't forget that the untapped experience of subdued nations (such as American Indians and Australuan Aboriginees), as well as the influence of invading hoardes / immigrants, peaceful or otherwise, may provide a robust regeneration of essential values - though one doubts that the Sabine Women would agree. ;)

Jelly Donut

03-30-10, 03:09

Well the analysis I see from the behavior of most your countrymen during the town hall "debates" is anything to go by, America is becoming more ungovernable. People were bringing guns to debates? Tea parties?? WTF.
Well, Americans have the right to assemble (#1 in our Bill of Rights) and bear arms (#2 in our Bill of Rights). So, there's some irony in your using this as an example of ungovernable America. :)

The real reason Euro Americans do not like Hispanics is due to the fact that many do not integrate into mainstream America and form parallel communities, also they tend to compete with working class whites and other Americans for jobs, I know African Americans who do not like them as well because of this.

I can't claim to be an expert on why people hate, I'd suggest hate looks for any reason, and besides my point wasn't about racism, it was about U.S. immigration policy.

If you hold racist or ethnic stereotyping are the main issue here you have to say 'Euro Americans' generally stereotype foreign workers as having extra motivation, providing better value, willing and able to do "dirty" or seasonal work. Otherwise there would not be a market for foreign labor; think Japan. Obviously, the overwhelming marketplace of Americans are sympathetic (or at least ambivalent) toward immigrants, respect the fact they will hustle to do the work when other Americans don't seem to be so motivated. Many Americans identify with people who work hard and produce quality work.

As I mentioned, the reason immigration policy has gravity is that it plays against ideas about American identity and law. You could go read some of the material from say, the Center for Immigration Studies, if you want a more informative view of the 'more restrictive' side of the debate.

I have to sum up, you have a very American quality to you. Stereotypically, it's classic vulgar Americana to present yourself as an expert on a foreign country to a native of that country. "Let me tell you about your country"

So at least you've got that going for you. ;)

Australiasucks

03-30-10, 12:54

I spent times on both sides of the Pacific, I think Americans deep down have been sympathetic towards immigrants but I have noticed a very strong patriotic jingoist streak that has led to the minute man movement, the tea party movement is almost identical. There is a tiny movement against immigrants in Australia but its head left the country and its pretty much inactive. If I compared Australia to America today, Australia is a lot more immigrant family, and immigrants make up a larger percent of Australia's population than the US. Both countries though are more friendly towards immigrants than say Europe. Conditions are also different, Australia is largely empty, its ordinary citizens have much better economic and social protections than the average American and hence they tend to be more slack. In America, you have little protection(low minimum wage and your healthcare system only cares for with insurance), so hence any newcomer who succeeds is seen as a threat, so in that case both legal and illegal immigrants are cast into the same pot. There are plenty of Australian and British illegals in the US, but they do not experience the kind of social separation that their darker skinned counterparts experience.

Starchild2012

04-21-10, 02:44

Very disturbing article on US prisons, which has the highest number of prisoners in the world and how blacks are systematically targeted as criminals.

Interesting fact: Under apartheid in south africa, there were less number of blacks in prison than they are currently in US prisons under so called freedom and democracy.

http://newilluminati.blog-city.com/america_behind_bars_the_usa_prison_state.htm

Clandestine782

04-21-10, 04:05

Starchild2012

04-21-10, 14:28

1. I am not sure what you are saying. South Africa has 49 million people. The US has 302 million. So, the same rate of imprisonment would still mean that there were 6 times more people in prison in the US than in RSA.

2. RSA has more black people infected with HIV than any other place in the world. So, is their democracy any worse (given that there will be a lot more dead black people and a lot more lost years of life)?

3. "...imprisoning 73 out of 1,000 people...." so you really mean to tell me that 7.3% of the population is behind bars? 21 million people. Twice the population of Michigan? The numbers don't add up. Later in the article, it says 376/ 100,000 whites, 997/100,000 Latinos, 2,526/100,000 Blacks. None of those numbers is anywhere near 73/1,000 (the first figure that the article quotes).

4. "Prison Industrial Complex......." Oh my God. Here were go again. Noam CHomsky has coined that phrase and it just WON'T die. It everything is a "X---Industrial complex." Not sure what it means, since there are MANY easier ways to make money than prisons.

I believe that you want to do some reading about the War on Drugs (which accounts for something like ALL of the differential in prison rates. The last book that I read about the War on Drugs was by Jeffery Miron (and I am planning on reading a couple more within the next few months), and he demonstrated the huge effects of drug laws on the prison population.

There is much more, but since the article is very obviously just agitprop, I can't be bothered to do a more thorough dissection. Life is too short.

Are you denying that US does not have the largest prison population in the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html

Its the ratio with the population with south Africa and US..or i din't want to go to compare it with China. Which been communist and one hand rule does not have that much prisoners than US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aaprisonpop.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/30/AR2006113000912.html

My whole point being, the facade of being the light bringer of the world, peace and freedom, does not quite add up to the numbers. People get put up in jail for petty offences and small drug related charges.

Clandestine782

04-21-10, 17:14

Are you denying that US does not have the largest prison population in the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html

Its the ratio with the population with south Africa and US..or i din't want to go to compare it with China. Which been communist and one hand rule does not have that much prisoners than US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aaprisonpop.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/30/AR2006113000912.html

My whole point being, the facade of being the light bringer of the world, peace and freedom, does not quite add up to the numbers. People get put up in jail for petty offences and small drug related charges.1. Well, I am not sure how many people are in prison in China. They have a lot of "black jails" here that are off the record.

2. What on earth does it have to do with me that other people are in jail for drug related offenses? Especially when the laws about drugs are very clear. I am 150% in favor of the legalization of drugs (but that is not the story).

3. Is there an issue at all here? I know that these neo-hippies who have never left university life are ALWAYS looking for something with which to flagellate the US. But if the issue is that there are too many people in prison, are you looking for a discussion of which laws could be modified to lower the prison population (and that would definitely be the drug laws) or are you just looking for something to ***** about?

Ok, so about 4 minutes of life wasted on answering a post. More than enough.......

Starchild2012

04-22-10, 14:34

1. Well, I am not sure how many people are in prison in China. They have a lot of "black jails" here that are off the record.

2. What on earth does it have to do with me that other people are in jail for drug related offenses? Especially when the laws about drugs are very clear. I am 150% in favor of the legalization of drugs (but that is not the story).

3. Is there an issue at all here? I know that these neo-hippies who have never left university life are ALWAYS looking for something with which to flagellate the US. But if the issue is that there are too many people in prison, are you looking for a discussion of which laws could be modified to lower the prison population (and that would definitely be the drug laws) or are you just looking for something to ***** about?

Ok, so about 4 minutes of life wasted on answering a post. More than enough.......

LOL ....you are taking it too personally chill ....did i ever say, the post was meant for clandetstine...you decided to reply..its just a simple post...relax.....go back to your wonderful life...i'm sorry to have wasted 4 minutes of your precious life

Starchild2012

04-22-10, 14:36

**Shocking video**

The Largest Street Gang in America

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=7086

Australiasucks

04-22-10, 19:45

Are you kidding? You want an America without the police? Frankly speaking, your country needs a good police force. I see the opposite problem in Australia, where due to wholesale third world immigration, our crime rate is now worse than yours, yes you are more likely to be beaten or robbed on a Sydney street than on one in LA. The police here have no power whatsoever to enforce the law, in one area of Sydney, a local gang shot up the police station.

Jon32

07-26-10, 21:17

This is 'american politics'. But what do people think of muslims in europe.... and america.

Rubber Nursey

07-31-10, 06:31

Sorry to barge in, guys. I know this isn't strictly on topic, but it's closer to American Politics than it is to American Women.

This is a poverty issue, not a single parent issue. There's a positive correlation between being a single parent and being poor, but which came first, the chicken or the egg? The poverty is the chicken and the single parenthood is the egg, and not the other way around, I became convinced by my empirical research.
I come from a well-respected middle- (bordering on upper-) class family. I hold the dubious honour of being the first, in many generations, to be a teenage parent, to get a divorce and to raise my children alone. Aside from blatant stupidity on my part, I think my geographic location was a primary influence. Growing up in a small rural community, I had limited sex education in school and no negative role models. It's interesting that when I became pregnant at 16, a number of 'respectable' local women confided in me that they had also been teenage mothers. Apparently it was an open secret that everyone knew, but nobody talked about. I can't help but think that if I had witnessed the hardships of teen parenthood as a child, I might have given more consideration to the risk of pregnancy.

In the long run, the money directed at "aid to families with dependent children" or whatever you want to call it, might be better spend on education, training, and job creation.
I couldn't agree with you more on this one. This concept is given a lot of lip service by the Oz Government, but it just doesn't work in practice. The problem is that they have no understanding (due to a lack of adequate consultation) about the realities of single parenthood. In most cases, our current education and employment strategies actively PREVENT single mothers participating.

There are a million problems with the current system, but the biggest is that it doesn't take into account the COST of employment. A sole parent can stay at home and raise their child (which, I might add, is a very important job in itself) and receive $350 per week in benefits. If she/he starts working, to earn that same $350 they have to pay for fuel, car maintenence, parking, lunches, uniforms, education and training, etc. And, of course, the big killer...childcare.

As an example, Oz single parents lose their benefits - and all rebates and allowances, including the childcare rebate - once they earn over $700 per week. Childcare with NO rebates, for one child, costs almost $400 per week. On school holidays, 13 weeks of the year, it can skyrocket to over $600 per week. Add employment expenses to that, and single parents are much worse off working than they are staying at home. Also, keep in mind that $700 per week is the upper level of Australian female income. The chances of a single mother earning that amount, or more, is slim to none. The reality is that most single parents will be in low-paid part-time or casual work, leaving them even MORE disadvantaged.

Governments simply MUST understand that single parents do not have the choice of having one parent stay at home with the kids...childcare is a necessity and a legitimate work expense. I believe that the first step in fixing this problem is that childcare needs to be FREE for single parents.

Ok, so the Government would be paying out massive amounts in childcare each year, but look at how much they could save in the long run. Single parents would be paying tax and it could help to break the cycle of poverty, with children of single parents getting a decent education and growing up knowing the value of work. Also, there would be less children roaming the streets and committing crime while Mum is at work (because she left them at home alone, because she couldn't afford childcare).

Sorry for the long-winded reply, but as someone who has personally headbutted this brick wall for 17 years, it's an issue close to my heart. Over the years I've had to quit two jobs, both of which I loved, because it wasn't financially viable for me to stay. It's no fun living on benefits, but it's even harder living on LESS than benefits! I started hooking because it was the only way I could afford to pay for childcare AND living expenses AND past debts AND still be a proper mother to my children.

Rubber Nursey

07-31-10, 07:50

Yes, at some point single mothers should get some support from the state, but where does support end and incentive begin?
On the one hand, I firmly believe that being a stay at home mother (or father) is an incredibly important role for children and for society, so I think parents who WANT to take this option should be supported to do so. There are many reasons why children grow up in a single-parent household - maybe Dad did a runner, maybe Mum wanted to do it on her own, or maybe it was just an everyday marriage breakup. Either way, it wasn't the child's fault and they shouldn't be punished for it. A sole parent should be supported to raise their children to the best of their ability.

In Australia we have a massive workforce shortage and it's only going to get worse in coming years. Our Government is so afraid of the financial consequences of this shortage that they've started paying money for women to have children. Problem is, only women in lower socio-economic brackets are doing it. Many Australians see this as a bad thing, but I don't. Some women will always choose a career over children, and others will always stay home and have babies. The babies the Government wanted are being produced. The only 'bad thing' is that most of them are being born into poverty.

If these women want to have babies, and these babies will circumvent the impending workforce crisis, then I say LET THEM. Pay them an adequate income to properly feed, house and educate these kids and they will become the taxpayers of the future. Force them to raise their kids in poverty and we will have endless generations of poor people to support. Welfare should always be viewed in 'big picture' terms, not as a short-term measure.

On the other side of the equation, for sole parents who WANT to enter the workforce, there should definitely be more incentives. Getting ahead as a single mother is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Free childcare, as I explained below, would be a very good start.

Again, Government support should not be viewed in the short-term. Rather than saying "This single mother is costing us a fortune in welfare payments and childcare", we should be saying "This single mother might cost us a lot, but her children and her children's children will be healthy, educated, taxpaying citizens, who will EARN us a lot in the future".

Australiasucks

07-31-10, 17:17

On the one hand, I firmly believe that being a stay at home mother (or father) is an incredibly important role for children and for society, so I think parents who WANT to take this option should be supported to do so. There are many reasons why children grow up in a single-parent household - maybe Dad did a runner, maybe Mum wanted to do it on her own, or maybe it was just an everyday marriage breakup. Either way, it wasn't the child's fault and they shouldn't be punished for it. A sole parent should be supported to raise their children to the best of their ability.

In Australia we have a massive workforce shortage and it's only going to get worse in coming years. Our Government is so afraid of the financial consequences of this shortage that they've started paying money for women to have children. Problem is, only women in lower socio-economic brackets are doing it. Many Australians see this as a bad thing, but I don't. Some women will always choose a career over children, and others will always stay home and have babies. The babies the Government wanted are being produced. The only 'bad thing' is that most of them are being born into poverty.

If these women want to have babies, and these babies will circumvent the impending workforce crisis, then I say LET THEM. Pay them an adequate income to properly feed, house and educate these kids and they will become the taxpayers of the future. Force them to raise their kids in poverty and we will have endless generations of poor people to support. Welfare should always be viewed in 'big picture' terms, not as a short-term measure.

On the other side of the equation, for sole parents who WANT to enter the workforce, there should definitely be more incentives. Getting ahead as a single mother is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Free childcare, as I explained below, would be a very good start.

Again, Government support should not be viewed in the short-term. Rather than saying "This single mother is costing us a fortune in welfare payments and childcare", we should be saying "This single mother might cost us a lot, but her children and her children's children will be healthy, educated, taxpaying citizens, who will EARN us a lot in the future".That is true, part of the reason why the Australian government is offering money to single mothers is to prevent population decline. They are also countering this by increasing immigration from countries with high fertility rates, such as in Asia. Seeing what Sydney looks like these days, it would not surprise me if Australia became a majority Asian country in the next 20 years or so. The Australian government places the Asian population of Australia at around 9 percent, I think the real number is more than double, realistically triple that. The character of Australian cities has changed considerably since I came here nearly 10 years ago, when it seemed like the UK in the South Pacific, now its more like North America.

The US is looking the other way on illegal immigration for the same reasons on the federal level at least. Most other Western nations are facing the same issues. In Europe there has been massive immigration from the Middle East and its come with considerable controversy. But this all stems from the same impending problem, a declining and aging population and its potential deleterious effects on the economy.

Westy

08-01-10, 16:52

...Part of the reason why the Australian government is offering money to single mothers is to prevent population decline. They are also countering this by increasing immigration from countries with high fertility rates, such as in Asia. The US is looking the other way on illegal immigration for the same reasons on the federal level at least. But this all stems from the same impending problem, a declining and aging population and its potential deleterious effects on the economy.Since this thread is "American Politics," I'm too tempted to interject an American-political "confusion of issue" on "illegal immigration to the USA" ... some prominent "right-wing pundit" entertainers, including Rush Limbaugh, are voicing the opinion that our current Administration and Congress view these illegal immigrants as "undocumented Democrats...."

:D

Joking aside, we have brought this "graying trend" upon ourselves, and I acknowledge myself as part of this problem. I didn't strive, in my youth, for a "place in the gene pool" - meaning, I didn't go forth and marry and have children - and now I'm old enough to figure I'd literally have to spend the rest of my natural life raising any children that I could sire. And I don't want to do that, even if I moved to a land where I could easily find a lovable chica who wanted my children.

Westy

08-04-10, 13:36

I notice a lot of "Yank-bashing" in ISG and other forums. I myself have bemoaned the way the country of my birth is "going to hell in a bucket," and yes, I'm looking to emigrate from the USA when the time is right.

The USA isn't the only country that comes in for some bashing in these pages and in the world press. But, still...

If the USA is so bad, why are people immigrating to the USA in such droves? (Formal and "informal" - I use "informal" as a PC version of "illegal")

If Australia sucks, why are so many people trying to immigrate to Australia?

If you're not a citizen of the USA or Australia, how does your homeland rank among desirable destinations for immigration? If you aren't living there now, why not? And what do you prefer about the country where you're living?

As I said, these are rhetorical questions. I'm not looking for an argument, and there are no "wrong" answers. But it could make an interesting discussion.

Jon32

08-04-10, 20:26

If the USA is so bad, why are people immigrating to the USA in such droves? (Formal and "informal" - I use "informal" as a PC version of "illegal")

If Australia sucks, why are so many people trying to immigrate to Australia?

I think you have to look at who's immigrating and emmigrating. Most people who are able to retire outside the USA know what other countries are like and what is out there. (have money and education...which I would think that the majority of people who come here have both).

Now the people that are coming in droves to the USA I would also argue are majority poor from worse off countries 'sold' on the american dream. When they get here they will realize it's crap!

Nyc Expat

08-04-10, 22:00

To all Americans reading this thread.
Don't accept the scare tactics currently being transmitted over audio air waves and television. These people and so-called party members are so disappointed we have a Democratic President different than any previously elected while Congress is also Democratic, they are trying to create fear and hatred in this nation unbecoming in our history.

Remember one highly important factor. Under President Clinton's last four years in office, we had the greatest prosperity since the early 1960s and a monetary surplus in the Treasury. It took an incompetent individual from Texas to destroy whatever positive steps were taken during his previous administration. The current Administration can not create miracles within 1½-2 years after 8 years of mismanagement.

Australiasucks

08-08-10, 19:57

I think you have to look at who's immigrating and emmigrating. Most people who are able to retire outside the USA know what other countries are like and what is out there. (have money and education...which I would think that the majority of people who come here have both).

Now the people that are coming in droves to the USA I would also argue are majority poor from worse off countries 'sold' on the american dream. When they get here they will realize it's crap!The immigration patterns between Australia and the US are quite different. Australia like Canada uses a skilled points based system, they assess you based on your potential to contribute. The US is mostly on a family reunification and green card lottery. Immigrants to the US tend to come from mostly poor third world countries, sold on the "American Dream". Immigrants to Australia tend to come from more well off countries usually in Europe and in Asia and are sold on a more relaxed way of life. In other cases you do get plenty of poor immigrants in Australia who basically came to Oz because they could not get through the door of US or Canadian immigration.

As far as the political thing, nyc expat, what Americans are now doing is just human nature and typically American. Americans want instant gratification, there was a lot of fanfare and excitement regarding Obama and after 8 years of Bush, who wouldn't be excited to see that idiot redneck get out of the WH. Yes Bush left a mess that Obama is trying to clean up but its fact that Americans are an impatient bunch and that is why his popularity is falling, the situation he inherited is nothing like that which Clinton inherited from Bush I. For the most part, America has finally reached a major tipping point where its becoming a declining power. I still believe Obama will be an 8 year president but regardless he will not be able to restore America back into the superpower it was 10 years ago. This is going to be an Asian century.

Anyway suddenly blaming the current President for the mess the last one left behind demonstrates how dumb most Americans are and why the country is on its downward path.

Nyc Expat

08-17-10, 15:30

Helpmann

08-17-10, 16:06

...obama has made some unfortunate mistakes most recently concerning building a mosque in the shadows of ground zero. this is a local issue to be decided by new york city. i am also disappointed bloomberg has mentioned the mosque is welcome in that area. wtf are they thinking?

in conclusion, fear mongers need to shut the f--- up. stop their propaganda so persons responsible to lead this nation can work to solve the serious situation and not use their energies to reply to media and political morons who imho are traitors. yes, there is freedom of speech but it's getting ludicrous and unacceptable all the negativity.you can say what you want about bloomberg, but this mayor has balls, big ones. it's not the popular decision, but it's the right decision.

government needs to stay the fuck out of religion and private enterprise!

-helpmann :)

Bimbo Boy

08-17-10, 16:33

...
Obama has made some unfortunate mistakes most recently concerning building a mosque in the shadows of Ground Zero. This is a local issue to be decided by New York City. I am also disappointed Bloomberg has mentioned the mosque is welcome in that area. WTF are they thinking?
...
Do not even think of building a church in Arab countries. In fact, just crossing the border with several bibles will bring you immediately in jail, on charges of "prozelitizing".
It took the Spaniards 700 years to boot the Arabs out. The war of religion is still going on ... and we are loosing it in Europe.
B.B.

Bimbo Boy

08-17-10, 16:39

...
obama has made some unfortunate mistakes most recently concerning building a mosque in the shadows of ground zero. this is a local issue to be decided by new york city. i am also disappointed bloomberg has mentioned the mosque is welcome in that area. wtf are they thinking?
...
a japanese friend recently made the following remark to me : "al qaeda did a horrible terrorist act in killing thousands of civilians at 9-11. the americans did worse at hiroshima, it was also a terrorist act of targetting civilians. if we japanese had won the war, we would have tried truman as a war criminal."
i was speechless ...
regards. b.b.

Helpmann

08-17-10, 17:07

a japanese friend recently made the following remark to me : "al qaeda did a horrible terrorist act in killing thousands of civilians at 9-11. the americans did worse at hiroshima, it was also a terrorist act of targetting civilians. if we japanese had won the war, we would have tried truman as a war criminal."
i was speechless ...
regards. b.b.it's funny how your friend remembers history. the japanese partnered with hitler, started the war with the us with the bombing of pearl harbor, and invaded china and other neighboring countries killing over 20 million people (mostly civilians).

with over 200,000 deaths attributed to the hiroshima and nagasaki bombings, i think the japanese got off easy.

-helpmann :)

Bimbo Boy

08-17-10, 18:53

It's funny how your friend remembers history. The Japanese partnered with Hitler, started the war with the US with the bombing of Pearl harbor, and invaded China and other neighboring countries killing over 20 million people (mostly civilians).

With over 200,000 deaths attributed to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, I think the Japanese got off easy.

-Helpmann :)
That's the problem with wars. Every side is certain to be right and to have God on his side.
Regards. :)

Mr Gogo

08-17-10, 19:19

You can say what you want about Bloomberg, but this mayor has balls, big ones. It's not the popular decision, but it's the right decision.

Government needs to stay the fuck out of religion and private enterprise!

-Helpmann :)I agree with your first statement. Even though I don't want it built next to the World Trade Center, you have to respect freedom of Religion.

A agree partially with your second statement. America was built on free enterprise, but we all see what happens when greed and abuse run rampant.

How do we have a free society without controversy? We can't, but all we can expect is our leaders to stand up for basic rights.

Nyc Expat

08-17-10, 20:35

That's the problem with wars. Every side is certain to be right and to have God on his side.
Regards. :)

Religion does not play a part in the current situation in Afganistan for American military forces. However, the fanatics of the enemy have used religion for thousands of years to fight with hatred against anyone who does not believe in their life styles. Their religion battles will never end until the last religious, militant fanatic is buried.

Helpmann

08-17-10, 21:30

I agree with your first statement. Even though I don't want it built next to the World Trade Center, you have to respect freedom of Religion.

A agree partially with your second statement. America was built on free enterprise, but we all see what happens when greed and abuse run rampant.

How do we have a free society without controversy? We can't, but all we can expect is our leaders to stand up for basic rights.I am not "thrilled" with the idea of a mosque near Ground Zero, but freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. To start denying certain Americans their Constitutional rights is the start down a slippery slope.

BTW, I am not "thrilled" with fat ugly chicks living next to me either, but fat ugly chicks have rights too.

-Helpmann :)

Australiasucks

08-18-10, 04:33

the previous poster and dj 4 money on another thread has bought up some isues that again are misleading. the national average u.s. unemployment rate is hovering around 9½% although it is higher in some regions f.ex. in fl. around 11-12%. i believe it is even higher in regions with vast minorities around 13-15% but 20% unemployment has never been an issue during the current recesssion 2007 onward.

obama inherited an enormous mismanagement of this country and an already high deficit from 8 years of incompetent republicans who lied to the population to start a war in iraq that should have ended after their dictator was captured. the president can not make miracles in 2 years for the reasons mentioned above. it will take time.

concerning wall st. and other business contributions to politicians, it is a known fact republicans have always been and always will be the highest contributors to candidates for politcial office.

obama has made some unfortunate mistakes most recently concerning building a mosque in the shadows of ground zero. this is a local issue to be decided by new york city. i am also disappointed bloomberg has mentioned the mosque is welcome in that area. wtf are they thinking?

in conclusion, fear mongers need to shut the f--- up. stop their propaganda so persons responsible to lead this nation can work to solve the serious situation and not use their energies to reply to media and political morons who imho are traitors. yes, there is freedom of speech but it's getting ludicrous and unacceptable all the negativity.obama is pretty much gone in 2012, he is finished. it has ditto to do with fear mongering, its a fact that americans want fast results and americans do not see any substantial change for the better. obama is a puppet of soros and elite globalists, although only few are on to this, soros bankrolled obama's election, the right wing is effective in creating an environment of fear towards o's policies, the direction of america is clearly similar to that of the soviet union, already whole sectors of private industry are controlled by the government. i am so glad i do not live in america, what a joke. people where i live have already discounted america as a has been power, its china's time to shine, this is the asian century not the american one, that ended 10 years ago, get used to it.

Member #2041

08-18-10, 07:25

Obama is pretty much gone in 2012, he is finished. It has ditto to do with fear mongering, its a fact that Americans want fast results and Americans do not see any substantial change for the better.
Not at all clear. What's most interesting is the degree to which the extremists on the right are dominating the debate within the Republican party. I agree that if the Republicans were willing to nominate a reasonable centrist for the next Presidential election, they would almost certainly win. But they seem pre-disposed at the moment to really gravitate to their most loony, scary, completely wacked out candidates like Sarah Palin, and that's the sort of of person that will scare the middle of the electorate back to Obama as the only sane option. And it's also true that we have some historical precedent here for Presidents to get a lot done in their first two years, but that scares the electorate into voting for the opposing party's congressional candidates in the mid-term elections. Then, when the opposing party fails to get anything done either, support gravitates back to the President before their election for their 2nd term. It happened with Reagan, and it happened with Clinton. Both of them were every bit as unpopular as Obama 1.5 to 2 years into their Presidencies - and both of them used the mid-term congressional defeats of their party, and the subsequent failure of the other party to accomplish anything in the legislature, to swing back into stronger popularity and to their re-elections.

Mr Gogo

08-18-10, 07:54

I am not "thrilled" with the idea of a mosque near Ground Zero, but freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. To start denying certain Americans their Constitutional rights is the start down a slippery slope.

BTW, I am not "thrilled" with fat ugly chicks living next to me either, but fat ugly chicks have rights too.

-Helpmann :)Tell you a secret between you and I. Fat ugly chicks have good wet pussies, Just make sure they use the back door and nobody sees her leaving.

Jon32

08-18-10, 08:55

It took the Spaniards 700 years to boot the Arabs out. The war of religion is still going on ... and we are loosing it in Europe.
B.B.

A huge yes to this. I'm in Spain now, and it's awful that the muslims are invading. There is arab stores and restaurants popping up all over the place. If I wanted to live in the middle east I would have moved there, not to Spain. I'm all for stricter immigration laws. Unlike the USA who was built on immigration, this country was built by Spanish not Arabs.

Now, you try to do any of this in their country? Forget it, you'll be dead.

Mr Gogo

08-18-10, 15:18

Obama is pretty much gone in 2012, he is finished. It has ditto to do with fear mongering, its a fact that Americans want fast results and Americans do not see any substantial change for the better. Obama is a puppet of Soros and elite globalists, although only few are on to this, Soros bankrolled Obama's election, the right wing is effective in creating an environment of fear towards O's policies, the direction of America is clearly similar to that of the Soviet Union, already whole sectors of private industry are controlled by the government. I am so glad I do not live in America, what a joke. People where I live have already discounted America as a has been power, its China's time to shine, this is the Asian Century not the American one, that ended 10 years ago, get used to it.
Apparently the media has influenced your thought process. Obama wasn't supposed to get past Hillary or Mccain according to the media. People in America aren't as blind as you think, we'll see what happens in 2012. The media needs controversies to attract attention. If they all said Obama was doing good that would be boring.

I agree with your statement about America wanting fast results and being unappreciative. The problem with Obama is he genuinely cares. We are used to politicians who kiss babys, tell us want we want to hear, and then do nothing.

People have forgotten that two years ago we were headed for the next great depression, thats not talked about anymore. Now it's we want jobs, jobs, jobs. After that some other problem will be manufactored for Obama.

China is a global power mainly because of America. We got into exporting good's and away from domestic products.

Never underestimate America's resolve when depreciated. America is at it's best when playing catch up. Our problem is when were out front we don't know how to lead.

I have been to Austrailia and it is a wonderful country, but politically they a minor player.

Thanks for your post.