Thailand Politics [Archive] - Page 2

Opebo

07-30-07, 21:12

Well, I believe YOUR MA is fake, or at the very least almost worthless. However, mine which is higher than yours has allowed me to earn a good salary.

The bolded part made me laugh out loud, OTH. Your petty one-upsmanship is becoming a bit of a charicature don't you think? (by the way, I hardly think it is likely that any Thais can distinguish between one farang with an MA and another farang with an MA, nor between the individual qualifications).

As for the other comments...always the provocateur. I never mentioned anything about anyone's blood...you make assumptions.

Sorry, but we all must make assumptions when interpreting a text - I made one regarding the meaning of the word Mongrel. It usually means something of mixed blood or breeding, though upon further research I find it can mean a combination of things 'inharmonious or indiscriminate'. While your essay in that light is essentially still classist, I will agree that it does not necessarily refer to anything genetic.

In any case, regarding the original rumour, it is highly suspect for two reasons - 1) Thais already dislike the man, and so are highly prone to creating false tales of a negative nature about him, and 2) the 'he has aids' calumny appeals particularly to prudish people. In anhedonic society - and Thai society fits this bill just as well as our Western one - there is no greater insult to a person than the claim that he lost his life in pursuit of pleasure. But, after all, what other way of losing it is reasonable?

Old Thai Hand

07-30-07, 22:26

by the way, I hardly think it is likely that any Thais can distinguish between one farang with an MA and another farang with an MA, nor between the individual qualifications).

Well in fact they can. I doubt, for example if you, with your little MA could get a job at my uni and certainly not the salary I make. You forget, that I know about your MA (sociology, was it?) as you once told me when you asked for my help getting a teaching job (practically any kind of job, at 25,000, if I remember correctly). Normally, I don't reveal when someone PMs me. However, your unwarranted insults don't afford you any sort of discretion from me.

BTW, I actually have an MFA which was until a few years ago, a terminal degree requiring 2 full years of study, a dissertation and defence. It garners much more respect and a much higher salary, than a little 1-year MA in Soc. even among the Thais who you seem to think can't tell the difference.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll respond to this and I'll let you have the last word. I'm not interested in being drawn into some protracted exchange with the likes of you. Nor, am I interested much in this forum, which is why I generally have stopped posting.

Terry Terrier

07-31-07, 08:39

Old Thai Hand

07-31-07, 10:24

OTH,

I don't think it's any secret that your apparent adoption of mainstream Thai bigotry is despised by many on this forum. But your knowledgable and well-articulated posts on Thailand and it's culture are certainly appreciated by me and, I expect, most of the regular posters in this section.

I hope to carry on learning from and arguing with you for a while longer. Hope you stick around :)

Actually, I think that a blanket statement that I've adopted wholesale, "mainstream Thai bigotry" is a bit of a generalization. But, I'll accept that in the past, I've been rather strident in my support of certain Thai points of view.

But, as with all things, ideas evolve and change. So, while I certainly still have Thai tastes and luckily access, when it comes to women, (but, that's just a preference), my views on most other things are hardly in line with mainstream Thais at all.

Perhaps I've devolved, as I seem to have returned to where I was 10 years ago, in my utter contempt for most things Thai. Perhaps the current political situation, with its ever-growing hypocricy, the anti-foreign sentiment and xenophobia, along with my increasing closeness to the upper strata of Thai society has driven me to re-evaluate my opinions.

However, none of that is particularly relevant to anything on this forum. If you have noticed, other than my addressing the recent rumours on here, I have been quite absent from the board. I am not interested in the content here, nor do I think that I can contribute anything of value to the type of people who now seem to be frequenting the various threads. It also seems apparent that most of the "old guard", if one can call them that have also abandoned the board, to be replaced by more simple people interested in more basic (or perhaps, base) things.

Duniawala

07-31-07, 16:45

..................
However, none of that is particularly relevant to anything on this forum. If you have noticed, other than my addressing the recent rumours on here, I have been quite absent from the board. I am not interested in the content here, nor do I think that I can contribute anything of value to the type of people who now seem to be frequenting the various threads. It also seems apparent that most of the "old guard", if one can call them that have also abandoned the board, to be replaced by more simple people interested in more basic (or perhaps, base) things.
OTH, just RIP. You make the most money in Thailand, have access to all the generals in the Army, have the most beautiful girls in Thailand. Why the heck do you bother with this forum anyway. You don't have to repond to the rumors. You are above them.
So just RIP.

Old Thai Hand

07-31-07, 18:13

OTH, just RIP. You make the most money in Thailand, have access to all the generals in the Army, have the most beautiful girls in Thailand. Why the heck do you bother with this forum anyway. You don't have to repond to the rumors. You are above them.
So just RIP.

LOL. Good one

Jungle Bluebird

07-31-07, 18:57

Could not agree more. And you know the reason for your resentment too. There is absolutely no progress in this country. Everything is 100% predictable.

Perhaps I've devolved, as I seem to have returned to where I was 10 years ago, in my utter contempt for most things Thai. Perhaps the current political situation, with its ever-growing hypocricy, the anti-foreign sentiment and xenophobia, along with my increasing closeness to the upper strata of Thai society has driven me to re-evaluate my opinions..

And Retired Army, I know I go to hell for this one, please send us the links to these photos!!! :-)

JB

Vinny_Viagra

08-01-07, 05:31

I lived in Thailand for a number of years. Every time I got sick of "things" I took a trip to Deli for a few days. Upon returning to Thailand I was good for another year at least. Maybe these days its better in Deli, but I think its much the same...

Retired Army

08-01-07, 16:27

And Retired Army, I know I go to hell for this one, please send us the links to these photos!!! :-)

JB

I don't have a link to the photos and don't know of one. They were sent to my GF by another Thai friend. I was going to put some on the forum but was warned against doing so by several of the other senior members.

Piper1

08-02-07, 11:12

Old Thai Hand

08-02-07, 14:12

old,

you know duni is laughing at you, and not with you.
______

it's cowardly to discuss someone's pms to you on the forum. we all argue here for a bit of fun, but pms are for private and more serious conversations. (the 'p' means 'private', which involves trust).

can you be trusted?

shame on you.

yes. i know he's laughing at me. so? do i care about some poster on this forum? he's never liked me despite my never saying anything against him. but, who gives a shit? i still think a lot of what he posts is good and worthwhile and while he took a clear shot at me, i thought it was funny.

regarding the 'p' im pm....o**** isn't human and therefore doesn't deserve any human consideration. i've never revealed, nor will i again the contents of a pm (unless from him)....afterall i've received hundreds and never done it before. but, given his hypocricy of waving the socialist flag and talk of equality, while at the same time exploiting women, and exposing them to possible disease, not to mention his extolling the virtues of an idol life; his repeated assaults on me, while privately pleading for help getting any menial job so that he could stay in los and continue his wastral life deserves exposure imho.

he's a collosal **** and doesn't deserve to be treated as anything else.

Happy Bigamist

08-02-07, 15:29

an idol life... his repeated assaults on me...his wastral life ...He's a collosal **** and doesn't deserve to be treated as anything else.So you want to fuck him?

In other news, the Winchester Club is back in full swing in Jomtien. The women do anything. Mind blowing.

The Traveler

08-05-07, 22:09

... his repeated assaults on me...

OTH,

why not just ignore him ?

I remember a time when several guys - you were one of them - told me to ignore the "person" who kept assaulting me endlessly for over two years.
Opebo's "assaults" on you are harmless compared to that.

It seems that it's always easier to give advice than actually act accordingly.

BTW, nobody is interested in those cockfights about who is better, smarter, makes more money, has better connections, bla bla bla ....

Giotto

08-06-07, 05:12

OTH,

why not just ignore him ?

I remember a time when several guys - you were one of them - told me to ignore the "person" who kept assaulting me endlessly for over two years.
Opebo's "assaults" on you are harmless compared to that.

It seems that it's always easier to give advice than actually act accordingly.
...
OTH,

You are a bad boy. I always knew it!

Giotto

PS: But this forum is quite boring without people like TT, isnt' it?

M P Lurker

08-07-07, 00:27

Old,

You know Duni is laughing at you, and not with you.
______

It's cowardly to discuss someone's PMs to you on the forum. We all argue here for a bit of fun, but PMs are for private and more serious conversations. (The 'P' means 'private', which involves trust).

Can you be trusted?

Shame on you.

PMs are surely for the purpose of sending private information to someone or sending something desired but not permitted on the Forum. Not for cowardly attacks or for asking for things that should not be asked.

As a side issue, I get slightly irritated by PMs that should have been posted on the Forum where everyone can see and possibly answer better than me. But this is a very minor thing.

IMHO, annoying PMers who have misused the PM should be warned off first and then freely quoted (omitting personal details) if they persist. I know that ignore lists are available but some seem scared to use it for fear bad things will be said about them.

Can someone be ignored on PM only but not on the Forum?

I added Cyberspace to my ignore list because of persitent whining but it seems he has finally got tired of it.

Piper1

08-07-07, 19:54

As a side issue, I get slightly irritated by PMs that should have been posted on the Forum where everyone can see and possibly answer better than me. But this is a very minor thing. I agree. I recently asked for some info on a country I'll be visiting for the first time later this year, and received some very good info by PM from a member who knows the underground scene very well. I replied with my thanks, and asked him to post it on the forum for the benefit of others, which he did. That's what a forum is for.

I added Cyberspace to my ignore list because of persitent whining but it seems he has finally got tired of it. Cyberspace was good fun (I like the occasional fight club. Good fun, as long as it's not taken too seriously). Too bad the limp old boy ran out of steam and bad photos so fast, despite his slow drip-feeding like a leaky sewer. A quick check finds that he's still lurking (probably saving up for another annual voyueristic adventure somewhere).

Putting someone on ignore list may give a fleeting moment of "fuck you" satisfaction, but it's a waste of time - you can still see their posts before signing in anyway. And let's face it, we'd always be curious to see what the 'ignored' person had to say. Besides, the real meaning of ingoring is to hear but not respond.

As I've said before, the only person on my ignore list is me. ;)

Freeler

08-08-07, 06:56

Mick,

Why not simply post annoying PMs. The ones that you didn't ask for, still received and kept on getting? Add an explanation why and you're done.
I did it a couple of times and, yippie, no more PMs.

Opebo

08-12-07, 10:23

I have refrained from interjecting any inflammatory comments during the preceding exchange - after all this is the Politics of Thailand thread. Also I regret inspiring divisiveness with my original critique of OTH - I honestly don't think I am a troublemaker generally, but sometimes his attitude riles me.

However, I would like to clarify a bit about the Private Message in question, since it has been somewhat mischaracterized here: I simply asked OTH, who seems an expert on the subject, about something unrelated to this forum - Namely, his advice on working as a teacher in Thailand.

Naturally I felt great shame at being forced to accept the humilation of paid employment, but there was nothing more desperate about my request than that of any other worker. I do not feel that there was anything inappropriate about sending a private message in this case. I am happy to report that while his response was not particularly specific, it was generally helpful and friendly in tone.

And now, rather than make a post that has nothing to do with Politics in Thailand, I would like to turn the attention of you gentlemen to the referendum on the 'new' 'constitution'. I wonder if anyone knows if this is just another royalist/military hack job like so many in the past, or if it has some innovations?

Animby

08-13-07, 15:14

i wonder if anyone knows if this is just another royalist/military hack job like so many in the past, or if it has some innovations?what little i've been able to read about it makes it sound basically sound although a little more restrictive of individual freedom (particularly of expression/speech and politics) than most of us from the west would like. most of the thais i've asked are very skeptical.

the big question, especially with the increasing violence in the south, is: is it better to have a "not excellent" constitution and subsequent elections, or continue under this heavy-handed regime and wait for a better document?

Animby

08-13-07, 18:48

Apropos my previous submission, I later found this news article. It shows the mixed blessing of having an iron-fisted regime and a beloved, though mostly uninvolved, monarch.

"Acting on a complaint from a fellow professor at Silpakorn University, police are investigating whether Boonsong insulted King Bhumibol Adulyadej by asking his first-year students to debate the role of the monarchy in exams in 2005 and 2006.

Professor Winai Poonampol said he went to police because Boonsong's teachings posed "a threat to society"."

YouTube is one of the most popular sites on the internet today. We here in Thailand cannot view it because of perceived insults to the king.

You have to take the good with the bad, I suppose. Here's a link to the full article from Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSBKK13776320070813?=undefined&sp=true

Opebo

08-14-07, 07:40

... basically sound although a little more restrictive of individual freedom (particularly of expression/speech and politics) than most of us from the west would like.ah, so it is just another royalist/military hack job (what else could it be?).

apropos my previous submission, i later found this news article. it shows the mixed blessing of having an iron-fisted regime and a beloved, though mostly uninvolved, monarch.actually, the iron-fisted regime and the supposedly uninvolved monarch are the same thing, animby.

i recently attended a 'debate' at a university about this constitution, and it was also attended by about 20 very intimidating and armed military or police officers! i can't tell the difference between the different branches of the thuggery, but essentially a man with a gun on his hip at an academic conference can pretty much mean only one thing, and that is - shut up and obey.

Animby

08-15-07, 06:30

Ah, so it is just another royalist/military hack job (what else could it be?)Sadly, you're right. For such a major point in a country's history, I find few locals know anything about the new constitution and there is very little anticipation of a vote in just a few days.

What is worse (?) is that if this new constitution fails to achieve a majority vote (though it is expected to - barely) the current junta has the ability to go through previous constitutions and pick one they like to "impose" on the nation without another vote.

I also wonder if the current monarchy will survive the king. The Prince and his lifestyle do not seem to be the stuff his father has made into a popular - and lengthy - reign. Of course, the same has been said about the monarchy in the UK, too. The difference there is the queen seems determined to outlive her son!

As an aside, it will be interesting to see if King Bhumibol or Queen Elizabeth sets the world's record for longest reign. The king is about a year and a half younger than Liz and has a six year headstart. Both seem healthier than befits their age.

Old Thai Hand

08-15-07, 11:09

I can't believe I'm saying this. But, I agree with Opebo 100%. In fact I would go a lot further than even he has ventured.

To be so naiive as to think that the man at the top is benignly univolved is to buy into the myth sold to the Thai people for the last 50 years, which they now firmly and blindly believe.

Although my "connections" have been parodied and/or ridiculed of late, I will tell you that my knowledge of the inner workings of the real power base is real and much more extensive than the average Thai and certainly most Farang.

The reality is that Thailand has never been anything remotely approaching a democracy. Nor, will it ever be as long as the true powers hold absolute sway over the country. I'm not talking about the likes of the Taksins or the Sonthis or even various generals currently in power. They were or are where they are solely at the discretion of what is usually referred to as the "5 families": the truly rich, truly powerful old-money families that are the real power behind everything in this country. While not exactly the Gambinos, for example, they're not far from it.

The bottom line is that these families are not interested in changing anything: certainly not interested in reforms in government, education or people's rights in anyway. They want to maintain the status quo because it makes them rich and keeps the social heirarchy firmly in place.

Therefore, in any real sense, the referendum is meaningless.

NicFrenchy

08-15-07, 15:38

OTH,

Yes, yes and yes.

Finally a very informative post!

Thank you for that.

LittleBigMan

08-15-07, 23:59

OTH,

You live up to your name! You got any connection with the inner works to get the Baht back up to 40?

LBM

Old Thai Hand

08-16-07, 00:50

OTH,

You live up to your name! You got any connection with the inner works to get the Baht back up to 40?

LBM

While one of my student's family own a large stake of Bangkok Bank, I unfortunately haven't any influence in that regard.
In any event, the Thais aren't interested in the baht strengthening, as it's actually good for their interests. Since a large segment of the establishment's money is tied to industry and manufacturing, low cost raw materials are to their advantage. Also a lot of them invest overseas and a lower dollar allows them to invest more.

On another note: the foreign community waffling on about how the new restrictions imposed in the FBA are going to be detrimental to Thailand as foreign investors will take their money elsewhere, still don't get it, in their Western-centric, egotistical mindset. The Thais don't care. They're in bed with the Japanese and especially the Chinese and that's worth far more to them in the long run that Western money. The Thais at the very top are not stupid. They know that the West is in decline and that China will emerge as the sole world power within 50 years.

Just look at Burma. They're completely isolated by sanctions imposed by the West, but still manage to keep on going while thumbing their noses at everyone. Why? Well, it's because the Chinese are propping them up and basically financing the country, realizing as they have for some time that there are large amounts of natural resources (newly discovered oil, for example) in the place, not to mention it's strategic importance. Thailand's importance lies in it's position smack in the middle of SE Asia, not least because it acts as a buffer between China and two large Muslim states.

Old Thai Hand

08-16-07, 00:57

Finally a very informative post!

Do you mean I haven't been informative before? LOL

I could also mention that the GoGo staff at the Rainbow's at Nana have collectively agreed to fix their prices:

2,000 S/T
4,000 L/T

Now THAT'S informative. (My connections run the length and breadth from HiSo to MidSo to LowSo to SoSo to HoSo)...;)

Happy Bigamist

08-16-07, 00:57

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/6941808.stm

The Thai Jesus got a huge reception last night. This is a very smart move in Thai terms. He now holds the second licence (as in cell phones), "Man U" holding the first.

Tell the pussies you are from Manchester and you follow Man C, not Man U. Then get them to fuck. Works for me and will work for Sven when he visits.

Glad to see India is not a presence. We can forget the cricket then. And concentrate on the best game in the world. Fucking upper class pussy.

Remember the main politics here is taking sausage eating. That's why my connections in Pattaya's soapies tell me when their mouths are not full with my Sven.

Giotto

08-16-07, 05:10

...
You got any connection with the inner works to get the Baht back up to 40?
...LittleBigMan,

The THB is not that strong at the moment, on the offshore market it was 29.05 at the lowest point 1 month ago, and it was up to 32.76 against the USD on Tuesday this week.

Giotto

NicFrenchy

08-16-07, 06:29

Do you mean I haven't been informative before? LOL
No, that's not what I meant LOL, I meant there is a big Sea of Bullshit in this section, your post was a ray of sunshine ;)

LittleBigMan

08-16-07, 17:02

Giotto,

The mortgage market in the states continues to drag the stock market down
and now throughout the world. I look at the baht this morning and it is going up right.

Thanks, LBM

Opebo

08-16-07, 17:34

...They know that the West is in decline and that China will emerge as the sole world power within 50 years.

Well in that case they'll be in for a major disappointment, OTH. China's just a flash in the pan. Aside from their dubious culture, simple demographics preclude the outcome you predict.

Brain666

08-16-07, 17:59

Do you mean I haven't been informative before? LOL

I could also mention that the GoGo staff at the Rainbow's at Nana have collectively agreed to fix their prices:

2,000 S/T
4,000 L/T

Now THAT'S informative. (My connections run the length and breadth from HiSo to MidSo to LowSo to SoSo to HoSo)...;)

Good to know. 4000 is way to much for Nana Entertainment center. Let's see how far they come with this agreement. Have to admit that I am rather a fan of Soi Cowboy then Nana. They obviously have catched up there. And girls LT are between 2000 and 3000 depending on girl time of agreement etc.
I have definitely good experiance with Soi Cowboy GoGo girls.

regards

Brain666

PS: when the strategy of fixed prices fails we see then the Rainbow girls in the Nana Parking lot for about a half.

Old Thai Hand

08-17-07, 02:17

Well in that case they'll be in for a major disappointment, OTH. China's just a flash in the pan. Aside from their dubious culture, simple demographics preclude the outcome you predict.

It's actually not my prediction, but that of pretty well all the world's leading economists.

There have been several warning articles on the the net and in newspapers of late likening the US to Ancient Rome, in it's final days with the same financial, and social factors in play that brought Rome down.

The "dubious culture" comment, I don't get at all. While, China seems hell-bent on forgetting its past, it's still one of the great civilizations and cultures of all time and has been since a time when both your ancestors and mine were wallowing around in the muck and mire of an uncultured an undeveloped west.

SidTheSexist

08-17-07, 02:34

it's still one of the great civilizations and cultures of all time and has been since a time when both your ancestors and mine were wallowing around in the muck and mire of an uncultured an undeveloped west.At least our ancestors have since developed! A lot more than what can be said for the majority of their population!

LittleBigMan

08-17-07, 02:46

o****,

i have to agree with oth 100%, many of the experts know that the u.s. is now owned by china, just ask any economist and they will tell you the billions or trillions they own in u.s. bonds. if they cash in what do you think? think why the u.s. is constantly trying to get china to lower the value of their money? flash in the pan i think not! take for example the u.s. toy recalls make in china. here in the u.s. parents are talking they need to be more careful where they buy their toys. like they have a choice! go to wal-mart and try to find something that is not made in china. we already sold our country and we don't even know it because so many are out of touch with reality that they can't accept we are in a decline.

prior to landing for good in thailand, i had been traveling to hong kong and china for over 20 years. i remember a article i once read that china would be responsible for destroying the world. this writer wrote that with the size of their population and the bright economic future ahead for china that the united states major businesses like ge, had a opportunity to help with globol warming. that once their economy expands so will the people of china, they would buy more cars, refrigerator, etc... and that the u.s. should push for these companies to develop technology to prevent china from punching a hole in our atmosphere. look at the stats today china has surpass the united states as the biggest polluter!

china, a flash in the pan i think not! they will kill us all! they already are killing your dog and cat. now the latest news " pork prices have risen in china 85% this year because the majority of the pigs are infected with a virus and the china government has been hiding this from the w.h.o., infected pigs have now been found in laos and burma! next thailand!

a personal political comment by lbm

Sean_Double

08-17-07, 05:26

Old Thai Hand

08-17-07, 06:57

At least our ancestors have since developed! A lot more than what can be said for the majority of their population!

Well...THAT'S true.

Trust me. I'm no fan of the Chinese. I find them a somewhat gruff, uncivilized lot, these days; and I'm talking about those with money. One can only imagine the poor, ignorant country peasants that make up the lion's share of the populace.

NicFrenchy

08-17-07, 07:23

One can only imagine the poor, ignorant country peasants that make up the lion's share of the populace.http://flumesday.com/archive/2006/1002-spitting.html

I hear they Spit everywhere, eat dogs, [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) in Elevators. That's not something you see everyday!

Sanook D

08-17-07, 10:00

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]It's actually not my prediction, but that of pretty well all the world's leading economists.[QUOTE]Well, OTH, if that's what the leading economists are saying then maybe China is doomed.

The US and China seem to be in a tense but only occasionally unhappy marriage at the moment. China is holding at least $1.33 trillion in foreign currency reserves, mostly T-bills, which is way too much for them to sell- after dumping the first couple hundred billion they would wreck the value of what remained. Also, having crashed the dollar what would their no. 1 customer use to buy their toys, pet food, and every other piece of crap one finds at WalMart and Target? China is going to use those reserves to invest and to secure resources, mainly oil and minerals. They are already in the process of giving $3 billion to Blackstone to invest http://*******.com/yqx7vl for their new government-run fund, which will be like Singapore's, but bigger. Anyway, the fact is at this point China needs the US (and Japan- and they still like the US better of the two), and the US needs China- China may not sell all those T-notes, but it may decide to place more conditions on the buying of them. Back in the '90's it was Japan that was going to rule the world, and we see how that turned out. The US is in decline, no question, but it was never the hegemonic power that Bush and other fools/loonies wanted to believe it was. China itself has about one Achilles heel (pollution, water supply, desertification, overpopulation, political-labor unrest, etc.) for each tentacle, which brings me back to Thailand.

The pace of Sinofication in our adopted country is bewildering, to me at least. I can't see how this will turn out happily for Thailand, but I also can't see what can be done to reverse it. In addition to the economic ties between the Thai-Chinese and those back in homeland (which is a pretty new development, really, the Thai-Chinese having previously been more or less nearly as Thai they were Chinese) the current influx of immigrants from China certainly looks, anecdotally at least, to be something of a flood. How many PRC Chinese are living in Bangkok now? 300,000? More? It seems like there are that many in my condo building at times (never saw one actually spit, though). A disgraced ex-politician I happen to know says they (Chinese) are coming in from Laos and Burma by boat every day (he's Chinese-Thai himself, naturally, but doesn't think this is so good). Chik ban lao is I'm afraid going to have an enhanced meaning in the future.

It isn't only liebensraum that the Chinese are going to need more of in the future. As environmental degradation and desertification continue apace in China, they could wind up depending on the countries of SE Asia for a large share of food supplies. I've always thought that Thailand should focus on developing its agricultural potential for the future, but something tells me that Thailand- the Thai people- will continue to get, as ever, the short end of the stick in any trade deals with China. Controlling the flow of the Mekong will surely strengthen China's hand. And as US power and influence continues to wane, the Chinese may decide, especially as the population becomes more and more Chinese, to simply declare Thailand to be historically part of the Middle Kingdom. Sometimes it seems to me that it already de facto is- should we start calling the place Chailand?

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

LittleBigMan

08-18-07, 02:01

There are two books concerning China that one should read. To me it explains a lot of what why the Chinese are throughout Southeast Asia and what is the mind set of the Chinese Government. This one I'm not exactly sure of the exact title since it has been so long since I have read it. I will try to locate the exact title and author.
A. Oversea's Chinese
B. Art of War

LBM

Happy Bigamist

08-19-07, 15:25

Forget the poll. Most Thais will be fascinated to see Thaksin's team, Thailand's team, Manchester City, have beaten Manchester United in the local derby. Thaksin brought his hi so Thai wife along (no tasting English pussy for him but he might let Sven bang her I guess). When we consider that City have given trials to three Thai internationals, that the City fans love him (or his money), that Thai hookers are creaming it in England, that the Thai Royal family have their problems, Thaksin and his horny Swedish friend might just shaft the military with this master stroke.
Speaking of stroking, time to go out and hire some LBFMs so they can toast Thaksin with my love juice. Sven would expect no less.

Giotto

08-20-07, 10:50

Not very impressive:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/20Aug2007_news00.php

Giotto

Animby

08-20-07, 16:36

The new constitution, as expected, passes leaving the path open to general elections in December. But it just barely passed amidst an apathetic turn out of voters. Even the Bangkok Post headline is: Referendum leaves Thailand deeply divided. If I may, I'll just reprint the first few lines here. Anyone interested should check out the article at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=120998

"Thailand's first-ever referendum has endorsed a new military-backed constitution for the kingdom but it was no landslide victory.

According to a final count of ballots cast, only 57 per cent of the people who bothered to vote Sunday supported the new charter, with 42 per cent rejecting it. And despite being the country's "first-ever" referendum, the novelty value was insufficient to draw the masses to the polling stations.

Only 57.6 per cent of the eligible voters voted, far below the usual turnout at general elections.

More worrisome for Thailand's current leadership, some 62 per cent of the population in the north-east region rejected the charter.

The north-east, the most populous and most impoverished of Thailand's regions, is also the political heartland of former populist prime minister Thaksin Shinwatara who was deposed by a military coup on September 19, 2006."

Clandestine782

08-20-07, 17:44

http://www.cid.harvard.edu/cidpublications/darkmatter_051130.pdf

This article is not very technical, but it points out some things that can correct misconceptions. Please try to at least skim it all the way through so that you can see the point.

China may buy a lot of US T Bills, but I think that this is because it easier for them to hijack the savings of Chinese people by controlling them with the big 4 banks and then buy up a bunch of T Bills to use the excess demand of US consumers to support the Chinese economy-- instead of findng ways to increase demand at home. (This has been a problem in China for hundreds of years. People looking to sell things here have never been able to because the savings rate is too high.)

Imagine what would happen if a significant part of US purchasing power was lost and China had to find ways to stimulate demand (with the highest savings rate in the world). If you think that deflation in the US (Great Depession) or Japan (economic conditions after 1989) was bad, you would be shocked to your core when you saw what came to pass in China.

If you paid attention to the dynamics of keeping a currency undervalued, you'd also notice something else:

1. With the Chinese yuan where it is, Chinese people are actually paying *too much* for US assets (which is ultimately what a trade deficit must become-- if there even IS one, that not being clear). It happens often when people end up with too many dollars, they pay way too much for things that they buy that correspond to those dollars-- and end up selling them at a loss. (This happened when Japanese companies bought things in the US);
2. If the value of the US dollar is supposed to correct itself over time (downwardly), then Chinese people are paying too much for assets that are going to go down in value;
3. Sterilization actually costs money-- and this is because for the RMB to stay at a certain value then there must be as many RMB in circulation as dollars to maintain a certain rate. In order to avoid inflation, the People's Bank of China sells bonds and pays interest on them to mop up the excess RMB;
4. If you remember, Japan thought that it was going to take over the world in the 80s by way of directing the industrial policy through the banks (the same thing that China is trying to do even as we speak), and that turned out to be a DISASTER. Everyone was so excited about the SIZE of Japan's reserves that they didn't notice the number of non-performing loans. China may well turn out to be old wine in new bottles.

And this is only a Readers' Digest version of these things (I don't want anyone to perish of boredom). There is much more.

But if the Chinese believe in the invincibility of their economy, why not allow full convertibility of the yuan and assume that they could easily weather whatever repercussions might come?

No nation was ever ruined by free trade.

Jungle Bluebird

08-21-07, 13:00

Yes Isan is poor. And yes Thaksin is popular. Why? Vote buying. If you are poor THB 500 is a nice little incentive.

What the vote has shown, again, is that Thaksin power is well alive in the North East.

Another few years and he will be back, on his knees asking for forgiveness. Case of songsan, really. Loads of tears, just as in the soap operas on TV. "Must forgive", we will hear and then he will win by a landslide.

There will be peace for a while. Then he will rip this country blind, like no one has ever done before.

Every country get a leader it deserves. Thaksin is unique as he holds out no mirror, but rather personifies personal greed and as such has become the Robin Hood of the poor and revengeful. He does not need the support of the middleclass. He simply taps into the deliberate effort of the Thailand elite to keep the poor stupid.

What I find interesting is the complete inability of the junta to handle his guy. Amazing Thailand indeed.

JB

The new constitution, as expected, passes leaving the path open to general elections in December. But it just barely passed amidst an apathetic turn out of voters. Even the Bangkok Post headline is: Referendum leaves Thailand deeply divided. If I may, I'll just reprint the first few lines here. Anyone interested should check out the article at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=120998

"Thailand's first-ever referendum has endorsed a new military-backed constitution for the kingdom but it was no landslide victory.

According to a final count of ballots cast, only 57 per cent of the people who bothered to vote Sunday supported the new charter, with 42 per cent rejecting it. And despite being the country's "first-ever" referendum, the novelty value was insufficient to draw the masses to the polling stations.

Only 57.6 per cent of the eligible voters voted, far below the usual turnout at general elections.

More worrisome for Thailand's current leadership, some 62 per cent of the population in the north-east region rejected the charter.

The north-east, the most populous and most impoverished of Thailand's regions, is also the political heartland of former populist prime minister Thaksin Shinwatara who was deposed by a military coup on September 19, 2006."

Old Thai Hand

08-21-07, 16:02

He simply taps into the deliberate effort of the Thailand elite to keep the poor stupid.JB

Bang on.

He won't be extradited. He won't be convicted. He was sent into exile by the power elite for "forgetting his place". After an appropriate time, he will be let back in to maintain the status quo as they dictate it to him, all the while dispensing largesse to the ignorant masses in Isaan.

To paraphrase a line from Gladiator..."Thailand is the mob." The mob, in this case are the poor morons of Isaan. Give them a few baht, create some make work project like OTOP and they'll love you'll forever.

Everything in this country is a sham.

Tiger 888

08-21-07, 16:06

Bang on.

He won't be extradited. He won't be convicted. He was sent into exile by the power elite for "forgetting his place". After an appropriate time, he will be let back in to maintain the status quo as they dictate it to him, all the while dispensing largesse to the ignorant masses in Isaan.

To paraphrase a line from Gladiator..."Thailand is the mob." The mob, in this case are the poor morons of Isaan. Give them a few baht, create some make work project like OTOP and they'll love you'll forever.

Everything in this country is a sham.Oh, we have a new one:
LOS, Land of Shams.

Sanook D

08-22-07, 03:45

Everything in this country is a sham.I've been visiting Thailand for longish stays for 17 years, and have lived here for the past three. I have a great many acquaintances who have been here long-term- attorneys, consultants, businesspeople, even, like OTH, teachers (an honorable profession unfairly maligned amongst the expat crowd in Asia, which could a cause of some the defensiveness and boasting one often sees in serious teachers here)- and I don't know a single one who wouldn't agree with this statement. Many of these people (though not all) are generally well-disposed toward Thais, have bothered to learn the language with great proficiency and are well-versed in the culture, but not a one maintains any expectation that genuine improvement in the country's political or legal culture- even the achievement of something resembling rule of law- can be expected.

Why this is the case is probably a discussion for another time, but I think it demonstrates the importance (vis-a-vis Thai politics and the country in general) of maintaining the perspective of spectator/observer. Passion, hope, and expectation when it comes to this place will I suspect lead nowhere but bitter disappointment. One needs to maintain a sort of Buddha-like detachment in order not to go nuts. Of course, it is that very sort of detachment that may be at the root of the problem here, but never mind.

NicFrenchy

08-31-07, 04:41

The reality is that Thailand has never been anything remotely approaching a democracy. Nor, will it ever be as long as the true powers hold absolute sway over the country. I'm not talking about the likes of the Taksins or the Sonthis or even various generals currently in power. They were or are where they are solely at the discretion of what is usually referred to as the "5 families": the truly rich, truly powerful old-money families that are the real power behind everything in this country. While not exactly the Gambinos, for example, they're not far from it.

The bottom line is that these families are not interested in changing anything: certainly not interested in reforms in government, education or people's rights in anyway. They want to maintain the status quo because it makes them rich and keeps the social heirarchy firmly in place.OTH,

I was re-reading these wise words you wrote about Thailand and it hit me, how is that different than in the US? Just replace the "5 families" with the US Wealthy Business Corporations and Voila! Same Same.

Old Thai Hand

08-31-07, 10:50

OTH,

I was re-reading these wise words you wrote about Thailand and it hit me, how is that different than in the US? Just replace the "5 families" with the US Wealthy Business Corporations and Voila! Same Same.

Yes. But, Americans, Canadians, Brits, Aussies etc. etc. can usually express their opinions without risking being jailed for posing a threat to "National Security" which is often trotted out at the drop of a hat here to threaten the masses. Yes, I know that perhaps The Patriot Act has eroded traditional freedoms in the US. But, people still have far more rights and are protected by the First Amendment and the Constitution. By comparison, Thai law does not serve the Thai people, but only the elite. If you're poor and disenfranchised like most people here, try suing someone, especially someone above you in status and see how far you'll get.

One glaring example of all of this is "Lese Majeste": a repugnant law created, not by the Royal Household Bureau, but by the Thai establishment to use as a political weapon to threaten and quash all opposition.

Also, most people in the West can still rise up the social and economic ladder by their own efforts. That's impossible here. Everyone has their place, knows their place and stays there.

Overall, to say that the US is "same same" is display a complete ignorance of the reality of things here. There's no comparison at all.

FritsVanegter

08-31-07, 11:30

Hello,

What us citizens seem to have in common with the Thai is their ignorance about what is going on outside their country. I think the way the Thai people did deal with the tsunami is better than the disaster in New Orleans a few years ago. Both countries have their goods and bads but I think the US should not impose their way of thinking upon the rest of the world. Just think about all those people living on credit cards, having a mortgage they will never succeed to pay. Makes me think of Thai bargirls that will spend their money on a new cellphone while the other one is still working instead of buying a book to improve their english. Just some random thoughts.

Old Thai Hand

09-01-07, 03:28

Makes me think of Thai bargirls that will spend their money on a new cellphone while the other one is still working instead of buying a book to improve their english.

The concept of ANY Thai, let alone a bargirl buying a book to educate themselves in anyway is laughable, to say the least. With perhaps Harry Potter as an exception, Thais simply don't read books at all. If they read anything it's cartoon books, silly little romance novels which rarely exceed 100 pages and the sensational and lurid Thai newspapers which are little better than The National Enquirer in the US. Even in Universities here, many courses don't have proper textbooks, but merely course 'readers' of selected material that in most cases only skim the subject matter to prepare the student to take the multiple-choice tests that make up the lion's share of the exams. Thais are among the most ill-informed people on earth.

AsiaTraveler2

09-01-07, 09:25

The concept of ANY Thai, let alone a bargirl buying a book to educate themselves in anyway is laughable, to say the least. With perhaps Harry Potter as an exception, Thais simply don't read books at all. If they read anything it's cartoon books, silly little romance novels which rarely exceed 100 pages and the sensational and lurid Thai newspapers which are little better than The National Enquirer in the US. Even in Universities here, many courses don't have proper textbooks, but merely course 'readers' of selected material that in most cases only skim the subject matter to prepare the student to take the multiple-choice tests that make up the lion's share of the exams. Thais are among the most ill-informed people on earth.

OTH,

There are some P4P girls that do educate themselves. The one Escort that I spent time with had a Thai/English dictionary. I also spent time with a Soapie girl on her "holiday" and she also had a Thai/English dictionary and took time to highlight new words that she learned. She also had a note book. So far no Nana or Soi Cowboy girls that fit that description, though.

I am so glad I have elected to remain just a visitor to Thailand and not a resident. It seems, staying in BKK too long can wear on you. Good luck OTH. I hope things get better for you. I mean that in all sincerity.

AT2

Old Thai Hand

09-01-07, 10:32

OTH,

There are some P4P girls that do educate themselves. The one Escort that I spent time with had a Thai/English dictionary. I also spent time with a Soapie girl on her "holiday" and she also had a Thai/English dictionary and took time to highlight new words that she learned. She also had a note book. So far no Nana or Soi Cowboy girls that fit that description, though.

I am so glad I have elected to remain just a visitor to Thailand and not a resident. It seems, staying in BKK too long can wear on you. Good luck OTH. I hope things get better for you. I mean that in all sincerity.

AT2

Thanks for your comments. I've managed to actually isolate the main cause of my perhaps too-public soul-searching in recent days. It's related to work. I think that a lot of Farang here, with few exceptions get worn out by working with Thais, especially when the Thais are in positions of authority. The higher up they are the more dishonest, unethical and immoral. I've witnessed several very serious incidents of late concerning my boss, which have proven to me beyond any doubt that this country will never really improve as long as people in power remain unaccountable. I won't go into the details other than to say that had she done at an American or Canadian university what she has done here, she would have been at the very least fired and probably sued. But, nothing unfortunately will happen to her because she's HiSo, her late father was a police general, once commander of immigration in Bangkok and her family are very well-connected.
So, my solution to mental health and personal survival is to disengage as much as possible. I'm just going in, teaching my classes, and leaving and above all trying as much as possible to stay below the radar and above all stay out of office politics...oh and going back to shagging as many of my former students as I can...LOL :)

As for you comment re: dictionaries...sure, that's true. But, a dictionary hardly constitutes a book. The Thais, for all their schools and universities, not to mention heavy media saturation remain one of the most ignorant people anywhere.

Old Thai Hand

09-01-07, 20:47

While I certainly agree with your generalization, generally, there are, very oddly, exceptions. Most of my colleagues are great readers of serious political, historical, and philosophical works - in English. Believe me my jaw dropped when they started loaning me books I actually wanted to read. But then they're all graduates of Thammasat and Chulalungkorn.

Well, I have and continue to teach at the top universities in Thailand and I stand by my generalization.

FritsVanegter

09-01-07, 21:30

Hello,

A few months ago I did spend a weekend with some friends from my GF. All finished their studies at university but my Gf was the only one that could communicate in English. Maybe it is also the way in which English language is thought. Lots of grammar but not actually using the language. I tell them to buy the Bangkok Post once a week and read every day half hour before sleeping. Buy some vdc dvd with english lyrics and Thai subtitles. Watch it and change it into thai lyrics and english subtitles. BUT somehow they are not willing or they just don't know how to learn a language. Like the french in europe every movie there is changed into french language, 95% of the songs on the radio are in french and yes the french don't have a clue about foreign language.

AND the Thai are so proud, so afraid to loose their face and they cannot imagine that other people can have totally different ideas that might as well be true.

Tell them you think it is strange that people ever did start talking a tonal language. If I mispronounce one of the 100 Thai words I know and I see them looking real strange I tell them to copy my sound into their brain and try to change the sound until they will say ooh, But they just cannot even understand what I like them to do. They even get upset.

Last year I did wear a t-shirt with Thai lyrics saying money is the real religion. Farang who could read Thai would say it is true but a lot of Thai just don't understand. It seems like they all think according to a same kind of pattern. Sometimes fascinating but most of the time just strange. Sometimes it seems like this pattern is not related to education. But try to talk to a Thai about this subject and you will offend them surely.

NicFrenchy

09-02-07, 05:05

BUT somehow they are not willing or they just don't know how to learn a language. Like the french in europe every movie there is changed into french language, 95% of the songs on the radio are in french and yes the french don't have a clue about foreign language.Very interesting. Care to elaborate? where does your extensive experience of the French come From?

I am French and, while I agree what you said was the case some 20 years ago, English is now taught in Schools from age 7 (or german for those that prefer). At age 11, you must learn a third Language (most people choose Spanish or Italian).

But according to you, these are people who do not have a clue about Foreign Languages. I would be surprised to see what people who have a clue about them do then?

M P Lurker

11-03-07, 08:56

Hello,
A few months ago I did spend a weekend with some friends from my GF. All finished their studies at university but my Gf was the only one that could communicate in English. Maybe it is also the way in which English language is thought. Lots of grammar but not actually using the language. I tell them to buy the Bangkok Post once a week and read every day half hour before sleeping. Buy some vdc dvd with english lyrics and Thai subtitles. Watch it and change it into thai lyrics and english subtitles. BUT somehow they are not willing or they just don't know how to learn a language. Like the french in europe every movie there is changed into french language, 95% of the songs on the radio are in french and yes the french don't have a clue about foreign language.

This has to be a stupid way of trying to learn English. Fast learning is about speaking and not translating into another tongue.
See the "Callan" method on the web taught at Times Square building.

Tell them you think it is strange that people ever did start talking a tonal language. If I mispronounce one of the 100 Thai words I know and I see them looking real strange I tell them to copy my sound into their brain and try to change the sound until they will say ooh, But they just cannot even understand what I like them to do. They even get upset.

If they cannot understand you due to you using the wrong tone, its your problem, not theirs. This is a basic principal in communication skills.
Just the same as if they spoke an English word using wrong consonant sounds, you might not understand and it would not be your fault.
Thai and English languages work on a totally difference basis in terms of what is important. You are the one who doesn't understand.
In Thai, the vowel and tonal sounds are all important and consonant sounds less important.

I speak Thai with wrong tones often, but its suprising to me how often they can guess what I mean. If you get the tone wrong and the vowel sound a little off also, there will be little chance for them to understand.

FritsVanegter

11-03-07, 10:46

sorry my knowledge about the current situation in france needs some updating. happily nick frenchy did help me out. in the past i frequently did visit france. 0 years ago i did do so grape cutting in champagne region. met a girl studied at la sorbonne didn't have a clue about english, the rest of the crew were just ordinary french people even worse. so glad there is improvement.

the idea of listening to foreign languages without understanding it is useful to get used to the sounds and to get used how to construct a sentence. ie the right order of words. when you write something down and read it out loud you will start getting a kind of feeling that will tell you i should put this word in front of the other.

sure i know it is my mistake that i am being misunderstood because it is my pronunciation that is wrong. but tonal language is hard to get used too if you will just spend your one month holiday in bkk

i remember i did call my french friend in grasse that i did arrived in avignon. i did pronounce avignon in such a way that he did not understand where i was. i know i am capable of understanding a lot of mispronounced words in my own language and even in english. there even seems to be some kind of logic behind these faults.

Old Thai Hand

11-03-07, 11:53

The Thai's problem with learning English (or anything, for that matter) comes from the outmoded methods of teaching and learning in this country, the hierarchal culture that precludes a student questioning his teacher and therefore questioning anyone or anything when an adult, the unwillingness to challenge tradition, change anything for the better or indeed consider alternatives of any kind, and most importantly the overbearing lack of interest that Thais have in learning anything other than the most superficial nonsense. One only needs look at the low quality of their TV, movies and books, and their lack of any innovation in art, design, and science to see how intellectually bankrupt they are.

They are a shallow, xenophobic people quite content to live in their small, Thai-centric world, despite the onslaught of globalization, English as the lingua franca (at least for the moment) and the need to look to the future.

The relatively small number of Farang teachers here has little impact on this situation and most ultimately either just cave in, do their time and stop caring or, bail out having largely been beaten by the system and the indifference of their students.

M P Lurker

11-03-07, 13:27

The Thai's problem with learning English (or anything, for that matter) comes from the outmoded methods of teaching and learning in this country,
<cut>
The relatively small number of Farang teachers here has little impact on this situation and most ultimately either just cave in, do their time and stop caring or, bail out having largely been beaten by the system and the indifference of their students.
The Callan method (of English conversation) at Times Square seems to be at least one exception to the out-moded methods. The prices are not too ridiculous, and classes are small, but unfortunately most of the students are not Thai at this campus, e.g. Korean, Japanese, Burmese etc. There are some Thais, some sent by western boyfriends :-)

Freeler

11-03-07, 15:12

FritsVanegter

11-03-07, 16:51

The average French citizen 20 years ago or the average Thai citizen at present time doesn't seem to be interested in languages anyway. They share their xenophobic tendencies and nationalism. Afraid to travel outside their countries, if they do stay closely together with their native speaking guide from one museum to the other or from one shopping centre to the next one. It did take longtime for the French to realize that the Germans also make good cars but because of the war they wouldn't buy them. Not true 100% they just buy their own ones.

M P Lurker

11-03-07, 17:04

Mick,

True that it is the fault of the person making the mistake.
However...
I found out a-g-e-s ago that people who do not speak any language other than their own, have far more difficulty in understanding a mispronounced word, or even phrase, than those who do have foreign language skills.
That is a good point. I am used to Thai style English now. Perhaps I can guess what Thais are saying in English better now that I speak Thai, but sometimes am still befuddled by really strangely pronounced English words.

I am forced to tell a Thai girl speaking a mixture of Thai and English to speak full Thai, as its easier to understand, even thouggh she goes too fast for me. The English words pronounced a bit strange do not help when mixed with Thai.

I am able to translate somewhat for two people both speaking English but with accents so different that neither can understand each other, but I can understand both. As a traveller, I am used to a lot of different English accents including Asian mispronunciation.

Soe people just have better intuition to deal with mispronounced words than others. Girls seem to do better than men, on average.

Regardless of these things, I am not so arrogant as to blame a Thai if they cannot understand what I am saying in Thai. I have to realise that I have got it wrong somehow, usually pronunciation, as poor grammer is usually still understood. Occassionally I use word wrongly as though it had multiple meanings exactly the same as in English, but actually not.
e.g. The Thai word "sanggeyt" equivalent to english "to notice" can only be used for visual things. You cannot "notice" a smell, a sound, a taste, or a feeling in the Thai language. I must hunt for another word than "sanggeyt" for these sences.

FritsVanegter

11-03-07, 17:38

A lot of mistakes are made because you are thinking and composing the sentence in your native language. After that you will try to translate this into foreign language. Especially if your level of speaking is rather sophisticated you will be getting into trouble when trying to translate it. Of course your mind will be working in '' native mode'' but you will have to try let the foreign words flowing out of your brain and mouth simultanuously instead of turning yourself into a kind of translating device.
I have allways been told that there is not a lot of grammar anyway in Thai compared to some european languages. And i did meet some Thai who told me that a lot of Thai don't master their own language as well. But again a lot of them are not used to read anything at all that can be considered serious reading. By the way this forum is not considered serious reading for me. Some people give good inside view of Thailand but lots of people not writing in their native language will not improve my english but just give me some ideas to stress my Thai friends. There is no irony in Thailand? Upset so easily or is it related to losing face?

Old Thai Hand

11-04-07, 04:05

While this discussion seems to be focusing on the Thais lack of ability (or more to the point, lack of interest) at English language acquisition, I was speaking in more general terms of their overall indifference to education of any kind.

Having taught thousands of Thai university students at the best universities a variety of subjects for ther last 11 years, I have finally become one of those Farang professors who is fast approaching the point of not caring anymore, throwing in the towel and leaving the country. Teaching here is so unrewarding. The students here are rude, don't care and are like clueless zombies most of the time.

...BTW, I don't get the French-bashing. While not exactly a fan of the French - (I'm Anglo-Canadian, so anti-French sentiment is part of my genes) - comparing them to the Thais is rediculous. The French are highly sophisticated, cultured, intelligent people who have comtributed incredibly to Western culture. In stark contrast, the Thais have contributed little of any real significance to the world. Almost all of their culture has be stolen from elsewhere. There's nothing original at all in this country.

M P Lurker

11-04-07, 04:56

A lot of mistakes are made because you are thinking and composing the sentence in your native language. After that you will try to translate this into foreign language. Especially if your level of speaking is rather sophisticated you will be getting into trouble when trying to translate it. Of course your mind will be working in '' native mode'' but you will have to try let the foreign words flowing out of your brain and mouth simultanuously instead of turning yourself into a kind of translating device.
<cut>
There is no irony in Thailand? Upset so easily or is it related to losing face?
Only beginners translate. I have been speaking Thai for many years now so I can think in Thai. Sometimes I struggle to translate what I just said in Thai back into English.
I can even dream in Thai, when my Thai speaking ability somehow becomes perfect (only in the dream).

The good English schools teach the students not to translate but to become able to think in English directly.

Not sure about your comment on "irony". Thais certainly can be ironical or sarcastic.
Some westerners think that sarcasm is so smart that they use it continually to the extent of being quite irritating. I just label them "smart arses".
As a newbie to Thai I found it hard to pick up Thai sarcasm, but now I can see Thais using sarcasm and also more subtle irony, perhaps not as frequently as westerners.

Freeler

11-04-07, 10:11

Oh TH,

"Teaching here is so unrewarding."
Only teachers who are bad at their job find their work unrewarding. Good teachers always find a way to get attention and make the teachings stick - for them teaching is rewarding.
Of course, the same goes for just about every profession or job.

"The French are highly sophisticated, cultured, intelligent people who have comtributed incredibly to Western culture."
That's easy for you to say!
You don't live with them on the same continent:(

Old Thai Hand

11-04-07, 13:09

Only teachers who are bad at their job find their work unrewarding. Good teachers always find a way to get attention and make the teachings stick - for them teaching is rewarding

Have you ever even been a teacher? if so, you've obviously never taught Thai students! They could destroy the self-confidence and love of teaching of both Mr. Chips and Mr. Holland!

"The French are highly sophisticated, cultured, intelligent people who have comtributed incredibly to Western culture."
That's easy for you to say!
You don't live with them on the same continent:(

I lived with French-Canadians, which is close enough. I never said the French were nice people. But, I do think they have been a sophisticated culture. They did, after all foster democracy in Europe.

M P Lurker

11-04-07, 13:29

I lived with French-Canadians, which is close enough. I never said the French were nice people. But, I do think they have been a sophisticated culture. They did, after all foster democracy in Europe.
You couldn't find a nicer guy on the forum than Nic Frenchy!
And he gets my vote for being the one of the most amusing and entertaining writers on the forum. His english is superb.
He may not be typical, and I don't like generlising too much.

I can understand when a teacher generlises about the students, of course.
There may be exceptional students don't prove anything about the norm.

Duniawala

11-04-07, 14:39

Traveler1234

11-04-07, 15:53

I have finally become one of those Farang professors who is fast approaching the point of not caring anymore, throwing in the towel and leaving the country. Teaching here is so unrewarding. The students here are rude, don't care and are like clueless zombies most of the time.

I don't mean to pile on but this must be the onset of your annual 'period'? It seems we read this 6-12 months, tired of LOS school scene, wanting to move on, yadda yadda yadda. Last year this time you were threatening to move to China.

Where to this time - we know not back to Canada?

ROFLMAO

Old Thai Hand

11-04-07, 18:14

I thought this was the Politics forum? Never knew teaching was so political in Thailand.

And oh BTW OTH, I am at a complete loss as to why you stay there. You teach, but you don't like the students (except when they are in bed), You don't like the social scene in Thailand, You don't like the French and the Canadians. Sorry, the French-Canadians. You are not a monger, but you spend a lot of time on this board. You pride yourself in the English language yet discuss teaching and living in Thailand on the Politics thread.

What are you, man! I am terribly confused. :confused:

aahhh.......the usual suspects arrive to take the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)...

I didn't start this discussion in the Politics thread. I was merely adding to it. But, it could in a stretch be seen as sort of relevant as I was talking about the Thais' general lack of interest in learning and overall ignorance which certainly applies to their politicians thus contributing greatly to the political situation here (as in 84% of the population, when polled didn't know that there was a general election on December 23). But, an ignorant populace is exactly what the powers-that-be want and the education system, as well as the passivity and the suck-up nature of the culture feeds into that.

Also, Duniawala, this board is not merely about mongering (or, at least it didn't used to be only that) and there are areas of it still of some interest to me.

T1234
ditto

FYI - It's not so easy to leave, as I have obligations here, about which I can't elaborate. China was out last year because money there is awful.

Anyway, what's it to you or Duniawala? The points I made about Thai students are accurate and relevant to the discussion, whether that discussion is in the appropriate place or not. My opinion is probably shared by 90% of the Farang teachers here.

Maybe the two of you should perhaps try contributing something useful to the board (anywhere) rather than attacking me for merely supplying information to the discussion at hand.

Freeler

11-04-07, 21:58

OTH,

Fortunately, I am not a teacher.
Unfortunately, I sometimes have to teach.
That's the way it is. And teaching sometimes is rewarding when I see a positive result in the field. Sometimes I have to think of another, better, way to get improvements.
I, like most of us (I guess), remember teachers who really messed up everytime, while other teachers, in front of the same gaggle of asshole students, did well or even very well.
The first bunch always complained and found their jobs so unrewarding that they became civil servants - this is a historic fact, at least to of my former teachers made that move...
The latter, happily teach until retirement, always get along with students, have good results and find their work rewarding.

I see you've managed to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) of Duniawalla. Great:D!

Old Thai Hand

11-05-07, 00:42

Freeler

Actually, I like teaching and have always been good at it. I just don't like doing it here, anymore.

BTW, I could say, "The sky is blue" and [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off Duniawala. He's just one of my legion of "fans". :D

Freeler

11-05-07, 00:55

Well OTH,

I'm wasting my 1,500th post to say:
With friends like 'us', who needs enemies!

"The sky is blue" pisses me off too. Here, that fucker has been grey for weeks now:(.

Duniawala

11-05-07, 16:53

No, no, no. Nothing pisses me off (except maybe [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)?). I was amused and now bored with OTH ranting on and on about all the negatives about his surroundings. He hasn't contributed anything worthwhile to the board except for his pictures about his extreme beauties (which no one else has been able to get). He is above all of us poor wretches, yet he stoops down to our level to chit chat with us.

I really, really can't fathom this man's psyche. Are we all that wretched that we have to listen to him (I can see him nod up and down furiously) and feed into his ego? Or are we all making fun of him? I say the latter.

And Freeler, you too? :D

Traveler1234

11-05-07, 16:54

T1234
ditto

FYI - It's not so easy to leave, as I have obligations here, about which I can't elaborate. China was out last year because money there is awful.

Anyway, what's it to you or Duniawala?

Maybe the two of you should perhaps try contributing something useful to the board (anywhere) rather than attacking me for merely supplying information to the discussion at hand.

Slow down.....I prefaced my post with a "I don't mean to pile on"....where's your sense of humor? I'm not attacking you - just reacting to YOUR comment/post re how it sucks to teach in LOS. Or did I mis-read what you wrote (for the nth time)????

I guess you really are on the rag....LOL ;)

Dinghy

11-05-07, 17:20

duni - better to be pissed off than pissed on especially in hot climates

(unless you're into [CodeWord117] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord117) and have a shower close - otherwise "hin!!")

<smile>

Freeler

11-05-07, 20:18

dinghy,

i hear you, but if you want a [CodeWord117] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord117) section, ask jackson to create one:d!

1234,

we could put oth's sense of humor on the fbi's 10 most wanted list and it wouldn't be found.
ain't that sad:)?

Old Thai Hand

11-06-07, 02:31

I'm not attacking you - just reacting to YOUR comment/post re how it sucks to teach in LOS. Or did I mis-read what you wrote (for the nth time)????

Well, yes I was repeating myself. But, it was pertinent to the discussion at hand about Thai's inability to acquire English langauge skills. Still, in hindsight it is a pretty boring topic. Hey, if you think I'm negative you should read the teachers' forum on Ajarn.com. The moaners on there make me seem like a real happy-go-lucky, gee-whiz kid. However, I'll refrain from commenting negatively about LOS as it seems to upset the visitors in their persuit of fun, sun and sex.

new mantra....Thailand is great! The girls are wonderful! I love the food! The Thais are so friendly and always smile! Why would anyone live anywhere else?

Old Thai Hand

11-06-07, 02:42

We could put OTH's sense of humor on the FBI's 10 most wanted list and it wouldn't be found.
Ain't that sad:)?

Hey! I just got an ROD from Mick Licker for my scintillating wit. RTFF. I'm a laugh a minute!:D

Traveler1234

11-06-07, 14:57

Well, yes I was repeating myself. But, it was pertinent to the discussion at hand about Thai's inability to acquire English langauge skills. Still, in hindsight it is a pretty boring topic. Hey, if you think I'm negative you should read the teachers' forum on Ajarn.com.

Sent you pm earlier...did you get it?

Back stateside we have an educational policy, often termed: 'No child left behind'. In LOS, suggest we start a "No teacher left behind" and get your to chair it.

:D

Old Thai Hand

11-06-07, 16:40

Sent you pm earlier...did you get it?

Back stateside we have an educational policy, often termed: 'No child left behind'. In LOS, suggest we start a "No teacher left behind" and get your to chair it.:D

Is that anything like the US military's policy of never leaving a man behind?

Should I start screaming, "Man down, man down!!"? :D

Daddy07

11-25-07, 15:22

I learned something quite interesting today that I am not sure many of you know.

The King of Thailand was born in December 5th 1927 in Cambridge Massachusetts while his father, the prince was studying at Harvard. This, of course means that the King of Thailand is – just like yours truly – a proud native son and citizen of the Untied States of America. Yes, in the immortal lyrics of Bruce Springstein, the most beloved and revered human being in Thailand was “Born in the USA.” He’s an American – a yank. I don’t know, but somehow this knowledge makes me feel a closer connection to the people of Thailand, and not so much a falang.

Regards,
Daddy

Freeler

11-25-07, 20:04

Daddy,

Did you know that if a person is born in the US from non US parents that said person can only travel to the US on a US passport?
If said person is a Thai, (s)he, please excuse my political correctness:), would have to give up Thai citizenship.
The 1,000,000 baht question is: Has the King ever returned to his mother land?
If so, he is a Yank:D!

Old Thai Hand

11-26-07, 01:02

Freeler

11-26-07, 01:16

OTH,

Watch you blood pressure!
:D actually has a meaning, y'know...

Daddy07

11-26-07, 02:49

Daddy

The king's birthplace is common knowledge.

Freeler
Sorry to burst your bubble. But, the king travels on a Thai diplomatic passport, even to the US, where he's been several times since becoming king.

OTH -- I said that I thought many on the board would not know the King's birthplace. By saying that, I was certainly not referring to you, the man who knows everything. :)

Freeler -- Anyone born in the USA is automatically an American citizen regardless of the citizenship of his parents. Therefore, the king would be entitled to a US passport if he wanted one, and he is also entitled to dual citizenship, i.e., he is a citizen in both Thailand and the US.

Cavechu

11-26-07, 03:14

If so, he is a Yank:D!

What is the chance that he was conceived on off campus housing in Boston?

Old Thai Hand

11-26-07, 12:55

OTH -- I said that I thought many on the board would not know the King's birthplace. By saying that, I was certainly not referring to you, the man who knows everything. :)

Actually, I meant that most expats as well as Thais, of course know this.

This is a rather pointless discussion, because whether he's entitled to a US passport or not, the king is about as American as Tiger Woods is Thai.

Are you getting all excited learning everything about your new country, Daddy?:D

Well, I suggest you get the book about Thai popular culture, "Very Thai" by Philip Cornwall-Smith. Philip knows more about Thai culture than just about anyone, Farang or Thai that I've ever met. Read this book and you'll be able to dazzle Thais with your knowledge of miniscule details about their culture.

Animby

12-01-07, 09:16

Anyone born in the USA is automatically an American citizen regardless of the citizenship of his parents. Therefore, the king would be entitled to a US passport if he wanted one, and he is also entitled to dual citizenship, i.e., he is a citizen in both Thailand and the US.

I'm not an immigration attorney but I think the rules are anyone born in the US is "entitled" to US citizenship. It does not automatically accrue. The King, or his family, did not apply for citizenship and he is not, therefore, a US citizen. Further, I think it's almost 80 years too late to apply. Also, as king of a foreign nation, I think his claim to dual citizenship would be denied.

Finrod

12-01-07, 23:53

I'm not an immigration attorney but I think the rules are anyone born in the US is "entitled" to US citizenship. It does not automatically accrue. The King, or his family, did not apply for citizenship and he is not, therefore, a US citizen. Further, I think it's almost 80 years too late to apply. Also, as king of a foreign nation, I think his claim to dual citizenship would be denied.
The King would not be denied on the basis of desiring dual citizenship as dual citizenship has not been forbidden to US citizens in 40 years. But he could be denied on the basis that his father was in the country on a diplomat basis at the time as that has been ruled as a possible exception to the rule. Anyway, just a hypothetical exercise.

Freeler

12-02-07, 11:42

US citizenship for US born foreigners...

What led me to mention the US citizenship for US born foreigners is:
A US born friend of mine went back to the States for a holiday. On applying for the visa at the US embassy in The Hague, he was told he couldn't enter the US as a Dutchman.
He HAD TO HAVE a US passport or wasn't allowed to travel to the US.
He got his US passport, holidayed, and now has dual citizenship.

Old Thai Hand

12-05-07, 05:42

PinkPearl

12-05-07, 11:42

If the PPP and its loud-mouthed, moronic leader Samak is elected, Taksin will return, he will exact revenge and ultimately the tanks will roll, again.

A dire future for Thailand awaits (and, BTW it will be an even more hostile environment for Farang).It would not surprise me for the army to roll. Although as long as the ladies tank tops and shorts keep rolling off in my room, BKK will remain paradise as compared to Canada. The drug addicted SW areas I frequented for years in Vancouver are full of knife and gun wielding punks, and I felt sick everytime I ventured there, besides shelling out triple the dough for an inferior service. Things will look even brighter when my loonie gets 40B after the next coup.

Butterfly Nit Noy, FBI, Female Body Inspector.

Old Thai Hand

12-06-07, 01:49

it would not surprise me for the army to roll. although as long as the ladies tank tops and shorts keep rolling off in my room, bkk will remain paradise as compared to canada. the drug addicted sw areas i frequented for years in vancouver are full of knife and gun wielding punks, and i felt sick everytime i ventured there, besides shelling out triple the dough for an inferior service. things will look even brighter when my loonie gets 40b after the next coup.

butterfly nit noy, fbi, female body inspector.

a really intelligent post from a west coast waster. i read your offerings and wonder whether you are simply a wind-up artist having a bit of fun, or in reality are actually the moron you appear to be. i suspect the latter.

for those of us who live here, the situation is not a joking matter, but one of real concern. if you can't contribute something worthwhile and with a semblance of intelligence on this particular thread, then shut the fuck up and stick to threads where the quality of bjs at [CodeWord900] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900) is the ultimate in thought-provoking issues.

oh, and btw, the loonie will never, ever reach 40b, thank g_d. the current near par of the $cdn with the $us is a short-lived aberration.

Sanook D

12-06-07, 04:08

In reading the Post today, it was noted in the latest poll that the PPP is leading the pack. This is awful news. . .A dire future for Thailand awaits (and, BTW it will be an even more hostile environment for Farang).Agreed, with the major irony here being that if the polling is conducted fairly and honestly (irrespective of the bribery, which other polling suggests ironically is more widely accepted by highly (as opposed to "better") educated Thais than by the "unwashed"- see an earlier edition of the BKK Post), there is no way the PPP will get anything but a majority of the votes. Naturally the current junta doesn't want foreign observers guaranteeing that the voting is conducted properly; under the circumstances, do any of us want the vox populi to be heard at this point, if it means the return of Ol' Square-Face? Of course, while the post-election future looks dire in and of itself, I can imagine a scenario even more dire; without going into too much detail, suffice it to say that I can only hope we are due for many more big birthday parties like the one celebrated yesterday.

(By the way, living in the general vicinity of the Thonglor Police HQ and witnessing the antics on display in my 'hood, I can't help but wonder if given the importance of the continuing health of The Personage to the welfare of the nation it isn't a bit inappropriate, even disrespectful, to celebrate his birthday by the setting off of unlicensed fireworks, the playing of loud music, and other noisome pursuits. Shouldn't we all be praying or something? Or maybe that just means I'm not sufficiently "Thai" yet.)

Giotto

12-06-07, 05:02

In reading the Post today, it was noted in the latest poll that the PPP is leading the pack. This is awful news. They've managed to convince, through bribery and promises, the great unwashed and ignorant folks of Isaan that they are the successors of the wildly popular, but murderously corrupt TRT. If the PPP and its loud-mouthed, moronic leader Samak is elected, Taksin will return, he will exact revenge and ultimately the tanks will roll, again.

A dire future for Thailand awaits (and, BTW it will be an even more hostile environment for Farang).Old Thai Hand,

Yep, it does not look too good at the moment. The polls are really worrying.

What is even worse is that the military seams to be quite weak after the last coup, and it will not be easy to go for the next one, if the PPP wins the elections. And one can only shake the head in disbelieve, if you watch this designated prime minister Samak from the PPP.

The actual government waited too long with this elections. The sentiment was completely different at the beginning of this year, and it is now changing rapidly - even in Bangkok the PPP will get an unexpected high number of votes.

Unbelievable but true.

Giotto

Old Thai Hand

12-06-07, 12:27

Shouldn't we all be praying or something? Or maybe that just means I'm not sufficiently "Thai" yet.)

Absolutely. But, the Thais, who are always up for sanook, even to the point of denial, don't want to face the awful truth.

Having met the son, I dread the day he takes over. That's far more frightening than any return of Taksin or election of Samak.

RCA Knight

12-06-07, 17:00

After all these years of hiarchial manipulation, Thais even the so called elites have lost totally their thinking analytical ability. This small bunch of hiarchy have achieved thier purpose amazingly well by total control of medias and daily non-stop propoganda, passed all kinds of absurd laws to preserve thier wealth, status, and power, insisting preservation of all these rediculous ancient feudal practices and disguised them as Thai cultures, controlling all medias and press to shape thier disguised godly images to the unconscious Thai masses.

Thai masses have been badly manilupated mentaly and consciously throught all these generations. They have been programmed into "collective consciousness" mode of behaviour. Carl Jung once points out when a society is mentaly manipulated for so long by a few powerful institutions, it will always be a deprived nation and also deprived of many generations of thinkers. Thats what has happened to this poor country.

Whoever is thinking consciously and raise a voice for justice will be punished, so the tiny fraction of conscious thinkers are shut up or jailed or out of this country for good. Its ashamed that a few powerful institutions are controlling all the national resources at will and run the whole country at thier ill will.

In the begining in the 1930's and 1940's, this country has a chance to be in comparison with Singapore and Malaysia with all their resources, but unfortunately the power elite restored pure feudalism to benifit themselves. Its sad it will take many more generations to come to brew a new generation of conscious thinkers but there may not be a chancefor this to materialize, until then thailand will always stay in thier 3rd-4th world league.

Freeler

12-06-07, 23:57

Power to the People:D,

Well, OTH doesn't want a smelly peasant government after the Christmas elections, so he calls in the army to stage another coup.

However, Giotto says that the army can't do that. They are to weak because of something.

That would leave OTH in the hands of the unwashed.

Oh my Buddha, if only:D

Old Thai Hand

12-07-07, 01:25

RCAKnight

You have a good understanding of the situation. Nicely put.

Freeler

As usual you're about as deep as tissue paper.

The "smelly peasant government" of the PPP is an illusion to keep the masses quiet. Nobody in this country rules unless the 'families' say they rule. The true power is in the hands of a very small group of people. Even the so-called "power elite", not to mention the Royal Family are an illusion. They serve merely as a bullwark between the real power and the people.

But, hey! People like you and PinkPearl don't care as long as there's still plenty of pussy for you visitors. What do you care if the country's on the fast-track to disaster?

PinkPearl

12-07-07, 16:04

But, hey! People like you and PinkPearl don't care as long as there's still plenty of pussy for you visitors. What do you care if the country's on the fast-track to disaster? An interesting comment cuming from one saying this country is a shithole full of morons, even at the highest levels, and with thoughts of finding a life and work elsewhere. It seems that the impending doom and gloom you prophesy would be the answer to motivate your lazy fat ass where it wants to be.

The cuntry is destined for imminent disaster? That with saying tanks will roll is extremely vague. Did the ozone layer disappear last time we saw the military in BKK. Was OTH's residence blown to dust. Are nightmares accompanying the paranoia?

"The coup caused little stir in Bangkok's popular tourist districts, where foreigners packed beer bars and cabarets just a few miles from where the tanks were posted, AP reported. "

"Some Thais gathered outside Government House in Bangkok to get pictures of themselves with the tanks and troops."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/19/thailand.coup.rumor/index.html

"The world of football was rocked this morning as Manchester City was invaded by the Thailand military following ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's take-over of the club."

http://www.the-onion-bag.com/index.php?issue=201

Opebo

12-07-07, 17:06

The "smelly peasant government" of the PPP is an illusion to keep the masses quiet. Nobody in this country rules unless the 'families' say they rule. The true power is in the hands of a very small group of people. Even the so-called "power elite", not to mention the Royal Family are an illusion. They serve merely as a bullwark between the real power and the people.

But, hey! People like you and PinkPearl don't care as long as there's still plenty of pussy for you visitors. What do you care if the country's on the fast-track to disaster?

I agree that the 'fast-track to disaster' is almost certainly good for us mongers. Economic collapse leads to the kind of desperation which puts asses up for rent at reasonable prices, provides motivation to perform, and more importantly at times even forces governments, against their normal inclination, to ignore the buggery.

As an aside I would note that the economic situation back in the Bad Place is now sufficiently bad for the majority that a LOT of asses are up for sale, and when you evaluate the 'real cost' P4P is actually cheaper back home. However, alas, the various governments - municipal and state - are still very well funded and highly operational, so they manage to ruin the fun. Thailand is catching up, of course.

Lastly, regarding your analysis, I would like to point out that the 'illusion to keep the masses quiet' is just as apropos the American 'two party fiction' - sorry, 'system' - as it is the Thai situation. All governments in the world today are a mask to make the power (which grows out of the barrel of the gun) look better to people. I'm assuming that the guns - the army - are very securely under the control of your 'very small group of people'. Could you elucidate? They are not precisely the royal family, of course, but are they simply the very wealthy owning class as in the USA? Or are they a group of generals? Not that it makes that much difference as the system operates much the same, but I am curious.

Old Thai Hand

12-08-07, 02:36

I agree that the 'fast-track to disaster' is almost certainly good for us mongers.

But not for us (including you) who live here. The anti-Farang sentiment has risen exponentially in recent years. With the return of the TRT...or sorry...the election of the PPP, it can only get worse.

I'm assuming that the guns - the army - are very securely under the control of your 'very small group of people'. Could you elucidate? They are not precisely the royal family, of course, but are they simply the very wealthy owning class as in the USA? Or are they a group of generals? Not that it makes that much difference as the system operates much the same, but I am curious.

I have referred to these people before. Obviously you missed that report. They are often referred to as "the five families", although there are actually a few more in the mix, now. They are generally true-blood Thai (perhaps with a smattering of Chinese blood), and go back hundreds of years. Within the group they are ranked in importance. One of the most powerful families is quite large (over 800 members in the extended family). These families gave and continue to give the royals their power. They are the ones who are responsible for changing Thailand back to a monarchy in 1947, who probably had King Rama VIII murdered, and are the ones who re-instituted royal protocol in 1960 (such as crawling on the floor when in the presence of the King). They put Taksin in power and removed him when he forgot his place. They are above everything and control everything, including the army. As long as they are in place, this country will never be anything approaching a democracy. For obvious reasons, I'm not going to name them. Although, the family names are known to all Thais. But, most Thais only assume that they are very rich families like many other rich families and are unaware of the power they have.

Old Thai Hand

12-08-07, 03:01

The cuntry is destined for imminent disaster? That with saying tanks will roll is extremely vague. Did the ozone layer disappear last time we saw the military in BKK. Was OTH's residence blown to dust. Are nightmares accompanying the paranoia?

"The coup caused little stir in Bangkok's popular tourist districts, where foreigners packed beer bars and cabarets just a few miles from where the tanks were posted, AP reported. "

"Some Thais gathered outside Government House in Bangkok to get pictures of themselves with the tanks and troops."

One has to look at what has transpired since the coup. Personal freedoms have continued to erode. Censorship has increased dramatically. The Cybercrime law is poised to make computer surveillance, at least a theoretical possiblility - although how they plan to actually track individual transgressors seems a little vague. Lese Majeste - a law which has nothing to do with the Royal family, but which is used by the power elite to maintain control - is being used with increasing frequency. The rules allowing Farang to stay in this country have become more stringent and the cost to do so has increased considerably. As one who in a sense works in the eye of the storm, I can say that the anti-Farang feeling among the Thais who matter (the ones that make the rules) is very strong.

With the imminent election of the PPP, things will be in place for Taksin to return and exact revenge. The pro-democracy chaos, the conflict and deaths that led to his removal will return.

Sure, little of this will impact the mongers sitting in bars at Nana. But, I don't give a fuck about those guys. It will impact those Farang who make Thailand their home, as it will become more and more difficult to stay here. That's what a lot of Farang here are concerned about.

LittleBigMan

12-08-07, 04:51

OTH,

Please clarify something for me now since I'm somewhat confused and lost and sorry for my lack of understanding of Thai Culture right now but my goal has been spent lately trying to learn more of the language since I living here now and plan to in the future but I would like to understand more of the current situation.

Who is the group currently in charge? and didn't the King support them and the coup? and who is the group PPP, are they part of the 5 families? are they the one's that support Thaksin?

If the PPP comes to power after the election and Thaksin comes back to power how would freedom erode since Thaksin seem to have given the Thai greater freedom and loosen the requirments for Farangs to live and work in Thailand? And if the 5 families are supporting the PPP, and they plan to allow Thaksin back why since they might have been the one that got rid of him?

Straighten and educate me OTH,

Thanks LBM

Old Thai Hand

12-08-07, 05:11

If needs be, I'll explain more later.

Here's the pecking order.

1/ The "five families"
2/ The Royal Family
3/ The power elite - monied Thai-Chinese
4/ The Army
5/ The current coup-installed government of generals

6/ The political parties...
The PPP (Peoples Power Party) really the Thai Rak Thai Party in disguise, run by Samak the former governor of Bangkok, long-time Taksin croney/puppet...Taksin is pulling the strings behind the scenes and will likely return - not a pleasant scenario to say the least

7/ various other politicos and loonies, who never-the-less have influence
example: ex-PM, and old-time geezer General Chaowalit who was at least partially responsible for the 1997 economic crisis and will do anything and suck anyone's dick, if you'll pardon the expression to keep some semblance of power and influence

8/ The Democratic Party run by Abhisit who is probably one of the few honest men, not to mention visionaries in Thailand - therefore, he hasn't got a chance in hell of gaining power

9/ the long-suffering Thai middle-class (intelligentsia)

10/ the ignorant masses (mostly country folk)

BTW, on the contrary, Taksin made it much harder for Farang to stay in Thailand.

Among other things:

*he instituted 90 day reporting
*he tripled the visa fees and made it harder to get Non-B, multi-entry visas as well as work permits
-pre Taksin a non-B multi-entry cost 1100 baht. after Taksin, 3500 (now I think 5,000)
-before you could get a non-B and a work permit just with a letter from an employer, even if you only worked part-time
-Taksin instituted for work permits a need for a full-time contract, and original degree documents and transcripts...)they have recently included a police report) and a minimum salary requirement of 50,000/month for all but teachers
*Taksin doubled the cost of permanent residence and raised the required bank balance to 800,000 and an income of 40,000/month
*His govt. tightened the requirements for retirees
- before, there was no minimum amount necessary to get a retirement visa
I know of several cases of Farang on fixed pensions from home who were forced to leave because they didn't meet the new minimum requirements put forth by Taksin's govt.

Also...
His govt. instituted a sharp increase in double pricing for Farang and they also instituted the Social Order campaign that caused the closing of night venues by 1-2 am. before there was no set closing times.

He's no friend of Farang, believe me.

The five families supported the coup because Taksin forgot his place and developed visions of grandeur beyond what he actually is - he started to imagine himself, one of them - so needed to be taught a lesson. He has had sufficient time to reflect on who his true masters are and will now be allowed back.

PinkPearl

12-08-07, 13:44

{1} One has to look at what has transpired since the coup. Personal freedoms have continued to erode. Censorship has increased dramatically. The Cybercrime law is poised to make computer surveillance, at least a theoretical possiblility. Although how they plan to actually track individual transgressors seems a little vague. Lese Majeste. A law which has nothing to do with the Royal family, but which is used by the power elite to maintain control. Is being used with increasing frequency. The rules allowing Farang to stay in this country have become more stringent and the cost to do so has increased considerably. As one who in a sense works in the eye of the storm, I can say that the anti-Farang feeling among the Thais who matter (the ones that make the rules) is very strong.

{2} With the imminent election of the PPP, things will be in place for Taksin to return and exact revenge. The pro-democracy chaos, the conflict and deaths that led to his removal will return.

{3} Sure, little of this will impact the mongers sitting in bars at Nana. But, I don't give a fuck about those guys. It will impact those Farang who make Thailand their home, as it will become more and more difficult to stay here. That's what a lot of Farang here are concerned about. {1} With the world wide war on terrorism, these things are similar to what is being implimented in the USA and other cuntries. The rules re Farang may not be a bad thing, e. G. Weeding out many of the bad apples, more meat to choose from and cheaper prices. Re anti-foreigner sentiment there is at least one the Thai born like. He had his birthday this week. But you provide no support for your claim about the rule makers. If they felt so much hatred for us then why haven't they done anything about it, this year, or in the last decade?

{2} Forskin is finished. His wife will divorce him if he enters politics again. Besides, according to you, he can only do what the ruling Mafia let's him since they are far higher on the pecking order than any political parties. But why would they want him to exact revenge if they were the ones who removed him in the first place?

Forskin never returns to LOS:.200

He returns before his death: +180

{3} Why would an allegedly Farang detesting Thai Mafia discriminate between aliens living in LOS and those on a holiday. Personally I fit both categories you described, since I am all but living here, although I prefer the street scene over the bars.

LittleBigMan

12-08-07, 22:07

Old Thai Hand

12-09-07, 03:06

Thanks OTH, for the quick education. In somewhat of a joking form if I was able to vote I being selffish I would vote for General Choawalit or anyone that would loosen the restrictions and screw up the ecomony in 1997, to offset the weak U.S. dollar and weaken th baht. Now if they want to kiss ass and suck anyone dick that's up to them!

Where does the current coup leaders or party stand? they seem to have added more immigration restrictions that took effect October 1st, of this year?Thanks,LBM

Stand re: Farang? I don't think they have any particular stand that's any different than the general anti-Farang stance that's pervasive throughout the upper classes. It's no secret for example, that the crown prince hates Farang and would like to see us all leave.

But, at the end of the day, they need most of us who are here working, at least because they're aren't able to do the jobs effectively themselves. As for the rest, they simply need Farang money. Still, restrictions on us will continute to become more stringent in an effort to weed out what the Thais think are undesirables.

PinkPearl

I'd like to respond. But, for the life of me, I don't quite know what you're on about.

PinkPearl

12-09-07, 14:47

Also,

His govt. instituted a sharp increase in double pricing for Farang and they also instituted the Social Order campaign that caused the closing of night venues by 1-2 am. before there was no set closing times.

He's no friend of Farang, believe me.The early closing time didn't change much except that those such as myself, who specialize in SWs, can pick up the bar girls on the street after 2 am. I suggest the change may have been to cut down on early morning drunken rowdiness, but was mainly for show rather than any dislike of foreigners.

Old Thai Hand

12-10-07, 03:32

The early closing time didn't change much except that those such as myself, who specialize in SWs, can pick up the bar girls on the street after 2 am. I suggest the change may have been to cut down on early morning drunken rowdiness, but was mainly for show rather than any dislike of foreigners.

The Social order Campaign has nothing to do with Farang. It along with the raising of the age of majority is primarily aimed at Thai teenagers and young adults who prequent places like RCA, Ratchada Soi 4 and the Thong Lor/Ekkamai area.

Sanook D

12-13-07, 08:31

But, at the end of the day, they need most of us who are here working, at least because they're aren't able to do the jobs effectively themselves. As for the rest, they simply need Farang money. Still, restrictions on us will continute to become more stringent in an effort to weed out what the Thais think are undesirables.Re the above and also earlier statements about making more stringent rules for foreigners (nice job enumerating the many ways Thaksin showed he doesn't love us), I can't help but wonder who is supposed to buy all of these condo-monstrosities I seeing rising all around me. The Japanese won't be taking up the slack, because so far the more stringent rules, including those concerning the establishment of companies, apply to them as well. Will it be rich Chinese looking for liebensraum? Or isn't anyone thinking that far in advance? Who will be left holding the bag when the current condomania pyramid scheme plays out?

By the way, I can understand guys writing in to complain that since it don't affect their *****mastering (one of these days people here will learn the difference between a *****master and a *****monger), why should they care- this is the ISG, after all, even though this and other categories have been set up for those of us who like the girlies but are interested in a bit more. While there are academic blogs about Thailand that have good information and commentary, I don't know anywhere else I can find freewheeling, informal, yet valuable discussion of Thai politics and culture (much like good bar chat), thanks in particular to the insightful remarks of people like OTH, RCAKnight, Giotto, and others. Any ideas?

Old Thai Hand

12-14-07, 02:47

Re the above and also earlier statements about making more stringent rules for foreigners (nice job enumerating the many ways Thaksin showed he doesn't love us), I can't help but wonder who is supposed to buy all of these condo-monstrosities I seeing rising all around me. The Japanese won't be taking up the slack, because so far the more stringent rules, including those concerning the establishment of companies, apply to them as well. Will it be rich Chinese looking for liebensraum? Or isn't anyone thinking that far in advance? Who will be left holding the bag when the current condomania pyramid scheme plays out?

A lot of the condos going up now are lower priced Boutique Condos full of glorified studios masquerading as 1 bedrooms, made so by sliding walls and sardine can cupboards. All these smoke and mirror places are being touted heavily as "New Concepts in Living" and are being bought in advance by Thai speculators who then try to flip them or, failing that rent them out when finished.
Thai developers don't really understand the concept of "supply and demand" and therefore even though there is a glut, the prices for these boxes are too high for the average Thai to buy. So, just as in 1997 when the bubble burst, so too will it burst again leaving some developments half-finished and Thai developers bankrupt and none the wiser. Greed as everywhere, but particularly here wins out and gets the better of people all the time.

BTW, the markets dropped yesterday on news of the Japanese heading for another recession. I doubt if the number of Japanese buyers here will increase to take up the slack, as Farang are slowly squeezed out by various restrictions.

SidTheSexist

12-14-07, 07:48

Taksin made it much harder for Farang to stay in Thailand.Among other things:
*he instituted 90 day reporting
*he tripled the visa fees and made it harder to get Non-B, multi-entry visas as well as work permits
-pre Taksin a non-B multi-entry cost 1100 baht. after Taksin, 3500 (now I think 5,000)
-before you could get a non-B and a work permit just with a letter from an employer, even if you only worked part-time
-Taksin instituted for work permits a need for a full-time contract, and original degree documents and transcripts...)they have recently included a police report) and a minimum salary requirement of 50,000/month for all but teachers
*Taksin doubled the cost of permanent residence and raised the required bank balance to 800,000 and an income of 40,000/month
*His govt. tightened the requirements for retirees
- before, there was no minimum amount necessary to get a retirement visa
I know of several cases of Farang on fixed pensions from home who were forced to leave because they didn't meet the new minimum requirements put forth by Taksin's govt.If he was made head of our home office, I would probably accomodate the thought of moving back!!! :D:D:D

Jungle Bluebird

12-18-07, 11:11

I mentioned this before, but current political developments makes the inevitable more likely. It will unfold as this..:

Live TV broadcast on all Thai channels. Thaksin on his knees on soft carpet, tears in his eyes, asking for forgiveness with his majesty. The lost son has come home, well timed for sure as he will save the country of all evils.

Thaksin is and has been the only valid candidate for the PM job. He is ruthless and self-centered. He also makes little effort to hide his true intentions as a politician – to fill his own pockets. As such he is refreshingly transparent, where he makes a mockery of the so called democratic process. In a country with little appetite for anything complicated its either love him or hate him. Thais know they need leadership, but are really not in the mood to discuss this endlessly, not being somewhat forced away from sweet soaps to make their mark at the ballot box.

Thaksin personifies all that is wrong with this country. As with Bush junior or other puppets painted in timely colors, every country gets a leader they deserve. Thaksin will receive the complete PR makeover – a new man for a new beginning.

... The five families supported the coup because Taksin forgot his place and developed visions of grandeur beyond what he actually is - he started to imagine himself, one of them - so needed to be taught a lesson. He has had sufficient time to reflect on who his true masters are and will now be allowed back.

Giotto

12-23-07, 12:47

Old Thai Hand

12-23-07, 13:13

Unofficial result of the elections at 6:37 local Bangkok time:

People Power party -- 220 seats
Democrat -- 162 seats
Chart Thai -- 40 seats
Puea Pandin -- 30 seats
Ruamjaithai Chartpattana -- 13 seats
Matchimathipataya -- 10 seats
Pracharaj -- 5 seats

PPP - that is the successor party of TRT, the party of the ousted prime minister Thaksin.

It is difficult to believe that this is really happening... :(
Giotto

Why so difficult to believe? The PPP bought the election from the ignorant unwashed, particularly from of Isaan, just as Taksin did before them. The truly sad thing is that these country folk don't care about the reality of the PPP and Samak just as they didn't care about the all-too-numerous evil deeds of Taksin. They only have the immediate care of 300 baht in their pockets, and short-term populist promises that will keep them placated without any real development to the country. This country will never improve.

Daddy07

12-23-07, 13:46

... This country will never improve.

(Sigh)... Reminds me of the USA and next November.

Easy2007

12-23-07, 15:37

Respect the will of the majority of the Thai people. The majority love Thaksin, the majority want him back, and the majority have now voted for the PPP to get Thaksin back.

Remember, those who instigated the coup did so by manipulating the media and turning Bangkok residents, who are reliant on media and newsprint (like most Farangs) against Thaksin with many trumped up charges and accusations, such they are that 18 months later no real charges against him.

Most Farangs have been brainwashed into the anti-Thaksin group, well, get over it, Thai's, who have the right to choose, have chosen Thaksin via the PPP.

So get over it, live with it and respect their choice!

Thailand will always perhaps be corrupt to some extent, but at least under Thaksin things got done, roads were built, many of them, airports were finished (after 25 years of Democrat assisted corruption and delays) in Bangkok, and many new airports all over Thailand. This is what the Thai's liked about TRT and Thakson, for although they may not have been saintly, they at least did get things done. And its why certain "parties" disliked Thaksin and the TRT, for they took away the nice little earners of so many rich elite.

Why so difficult to believe? The PPP bought the election from the ignorant unwashed, particularly from of Isaan, just as Taksin did before them. The truly sad thing is that these country folk don't care about the reality of the PPP and Samak just as they didn't care about the all-too-numerous evil deeds of Taksin. They only have the immediate care of 300 baht in their pockets, and short-term populist promises that will keep them placated without any real development to the country. This country will never improve.

Revcolinn

12-23-07, 17:31

Hi Guys,

Can any of you please enlighten me as to the implications, if any of, such a result on the economic and political way of life n Thailand in general and with specific reference to the attitude towards farang or tourists in general over the next few months.

Three sentences will do.

The rev

Opebo

12-23-07, 18:29

...The PPP bought the election from the ignorant unwashed, particularly from of Isaan, just as Taksin did before them. The truly sad thing is that these country folk don't care about the reality of the PPP and Samak just as they didn't care about the all-too-numerous evil deeds of Taksin. They only have the immediate care of 300 baht in their pockets, and short-term populist promises that will keep them placated without any real development to the country. This country will never improve.

How can you blame the working class for voting as they did, OTH? They are kept in abject oppression, and while TRT/PPP only offer the smallest tokens to relieve their condition, the point is that the other parties and the ruling elite offer nothing at all.

If in fact the only reason they voted as they did was a 300 baht payment, then why did not the controlling-elite/military/m******y cabal simply buy up the votes of Isaan for 500 baht per head? Presumabely they can afford it? No I suspect those Isaners voted the way they wanted, and 300 baht had nothing to do with it.

I'm not sure what you consider 'improvement', but the parties opposing PPP certainly offered nothing that working class voters would consider improvement. It seems unreasonable to get angry with the Issan people for voting like they did.. like browbeating African-Americans for voting for the american Democratic Party.

Of course as a farang sex tourist I would love to see the Democrats back in power, or simply continue with the military dictatorship. But I certainly cannot see any reason for the commoners of Thailand to feel the same.

Bumholes1

12-23-07, 22:50

No I suspect those Isaners voted the way they wanted, and 300 baht had nothing to do with it.

Whilst I am sure a lot of Isaners did indeed vote the way they wanted, (against PPP), despite accepting cash to vote for the PPP, a good many accepted the cash and voted as they were told, having no interest in the political outcome, but being told they would be excluded from the village fund if they did not vote as instructed.

If these votes could somehow have been excluded from the results I feel sure we would see a somewhat different and more representative picture this morning.

Old Thai Hand

12-24-07, 02:37

Whilst I am sure a lot of Isaners did indeed vote the way they wanted, (against PPP), despite accepting cash to vote for the PPP, a good many accepted the cash and voted as they were told, having no interest in the political outcome, but being told they would be excluded from the village fund if they did not vote as instructed.

If these votes could somehow have been excluded from the results I feel sure we would see a somewhat different and more representative picture this morning.

Spot on.

I was no lover of the coup government as it was decidedly anti-Farang, and incredibly inept. But, it was still nothing compared to Taksin, the TRT and their anti-Farang attitudes. Now, we are faced with the return of the man himself and his penchant for revenge. Perhaps, though he will come back somewhat meeker and milder, so as not to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off his handlers again. Still, those below him that opposed him may pay dearly in the next few months.

Abhisit is one of the few decent men in Thai politics. Yet the Thais were too stupid to recognize him for that decency. So, they are going to get what they deserve. The fact that the Democrats won Bangkok, with 1/6th the population of the country and the majority of the educated intelligentsia clearly shows the great divide of the country's demographics.

In any event, Thailand isn't really ready for a true democracy, if such a thing exists anywhere. The education level of the vast majority of the populace is far too low for them to make any real informed decisions.

The PPP will form a coalition, which will eventually fall apart. There may be another coup and yet another election and the typcial cycle of ineffective Thai politics will continue.

In the end, those above Taksin and his puppets (like Samak) will enjoy the return of the status quo and never forget that the army answers to no-one but a chosen few and could roll at any time, if they see fit.

Easy2007

12-24-07, 03:39

The Isaan people have wanted Thaksin back ever since the coup. It is stupid to say that a token gesture of money just before the election made any difference. I have been in Thailand for over 20 years, and I know that Chart Thai, the Democrats and all "pay off" voters in the exact same way. Some ultra dumb farangs seem to beleive that only TRT paid money, NO, they all did, and have done for the past many decades.

The Thai poor accept the money from all parties, which can be over 1000 B per person when you add up PPP + PP + CT + Democrat and the 200 or 300 they all give.

HOWEVER after taking the money, the poor vote for the one who will give them the best hope for the future.

The biased media in Bangkok like to portray the poor as dumb idiots who cannot think and just accept money, whilst portraying Bangkokians as ultra educated thinking people.

Well, its very clear, the Bangkokians were dumb enough to beleive the trumped up charges against Thaksin and helped the coup happen, and then realised they made a mistake but kept very quiet. Think you'll find Sondi is now a monk.

The TRT won the nullified 2006 election against all the oppostion parties and no votes added together.

The PPP (aka TRT) have now won the 2007 election against a backdrop of banning 111 politicians and severe restrictions against campaigning.

When the Bangkokians wake up and realise that the political scene has now changed, and finally the MAJORITY of the population are having their say, and Bangkokians no longer are the most important on their own, but the poor of the country now have a very vocal voice, one which expects results.

Having been around many parts of Thailand (not just Bangkok, Phuket and Pattata) I can honestly say, hand on heart, that Thaksin and the TRT made a massive difference in terms of what they achieved for the good of the people, now whilst most in Bangkok never appreciated this, and therefore were more than happy to dump him, the people in Isaan and other places fully appreciate what was done, and thats why they have voted back the PPP, and will now demand Thaksin is brought back a.s.a.p, to lead the country to further improve the life of the rural Thai people.

Whilst I am sure a lot of Isaners did indeed vote the way they wanted, (against PPP), despite accepting cash to vote for the PPP, a good many accepted the cash and voted as they were told, having no interest in the political outcome, but being told they would be excluded from the village fund if they did not vote as instructed.

If these votes could somehow have been excluded from the results I feel sure we would see a somewhat different and more representative picture this morning.

Sanook D

12-24-07, 05:57

Respect the will of the majority of the Thai people. The majority love Thaksin, the majority want him back, and the majority have now voted for the PPP to get Thaksin back.

Thailand will always perhaps be corrupt to some extent, but at least under Thaksin things got done, roads were built, many of them, airports were finished Don't forget to mention Meowssolini © making the trains run on time. And if you think Suvarnabhoom! Represents a crowning achievement, I have some cobra swamp land I'd like to sell you.

In all seriousness, I have heard a number of thoughtful-sounding Thais say that they don't_can't_like, let alone "love", Thaksin (and probably even less so Samak), but the perception is he got things done (as you point out). The cheap medical care scheme he helped establish, and which appears to have languished since the coup, is a case in point- like the new airport, as badly as it functions it is still better than what they had. Otherwise, when pressed to explain exactly why they think things were better under Ol' Square Face, the consensus appears to be "I seemed to have more money/income when he was in. " Taxi drivers claim that they had more fares during Thaksin's reign, farmers got more for their meat, fruit, and rice, etc. Exactly what this had to do with Thaksin's programs isn't clear- could be they attribute it to his mojo (look how well Man City is doing so far!

If (when) Thaksin comes back I'd expect to him to take it easy initially, possibly waiting until after the inevitable National Trauma (don't make me spell it out, please, I do like living here all in all) before moving to consolidate all power. Before he makes his final move he will gradually attempt to consolidate all power in whatever party/organization/Cosa Nostra he happens to be presiding over, and this time he will be more careful. The battle could form around a contested succession (there, I've said it). Expect the power elite and their military cronies to act as clumsily as ever. The question is how the people will respond; if the election results are any indication we could see a major rift between the capital and the rest of the country. I think it should be obvious that when the shit hits the fan next time Thaksin will not turn out to be quite so unprepared as he was previously. His enemies will probably wind up wishing they had done with him what was done with the first King Taksin (velvet bag, sandalwood club), but too late for that now.

By the way, is Samak a living example of the prediction Orwell made at the conclusion of Animal Farm, or what? Seeing him up on his hind legs like that is just bizarre.

Old Thai Hand

12-24-07, 06:59

sanook.

a very good analysis. the succession, while it will be contentious will go as planned, until 'his snibs' dies of aids and then, his sis will run things, until his mongrel son comes of age.

easy

simplistic and naiive, at best. i'm assuming you've spent your over 20 years here shacked up with some isaan girl you met in patts or somewhere, and therefore have a pro-upcountry bias.

yes, the country folk have chosen predictably because they don't understand anything except on the most basic of levels - i.e. geez, i had more money when taksin was [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) the country. therefore, taksin is good.

anyway, as i've repeated often enough, it's not taksin, samak or anyone who will be the real power. they will merely be the public face of the real power and will placate the ignorant masses with crumbs that will keep them stupid, but happy.

all the while, the power elite will stay firmly entrenched and will continue to control the real wealth.

Sanook D

12-24-07, 07:12

. Until 'his snibs' dies of Aids and then, his sis will run things, until his mongrel son comes of age. Likely scenario, but. Are you trying to get us all killed? ! ? (Hiding under desk, trembling)

it's not Taksin, Samak or anyone who will be the real power. They will merely be the public face of the real power. All the while, the power elite will stay firmly entrenched and will continue to control the real wealth. I'm not so sure Thaksin is going to give up trying to be more than just the face of power. Take a look at that face- vaulting, rapacious ambition written all over it. He got a little power-drunk last time, made him careless. He'll overreach again, but he'll be more prepared next time. It'll be fun to watch, I guess.

Freeler

12-24-07, 08:04

Love Sex 22

12-24-07, 08:18

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Loyalists of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra won nearly half the seats in Thailand's parliamentary elections Sunday in a striking rebuke to the generals who forced the billionaire populist from power in 2006.

The first vote since the coup appeared to be a recipe for continuing political instability: The failure of the pro-Thaksin People's Power Party to capture an absolute majority in the 480-seat lower house of parliament opens the way for his opponents to form a government despite the PPP's substantial mandate.

With more than 95 percent of the vote counted, the People's Power Party -- established after Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai Party was disbanded by court order earlier this year -- had won 228 seats, according to the state Election Commission. Complete results were due Monday.

"I would like to call for all political parties to join us in forming a strong government," PPP leader Samak Sundaravej said at a news conference. "I will certainly be the prime minister."

He said Thaksin, who was in Hong Kong, had telephoned to offer his congratulations after hearing the results.

The second-place Democrat Party took 165 seats.

"If the PPP succeeds in forming the government, the Democrat Party is ready to be in the opposition to protect the people's interest. However, if the PPP fails to form a government, the Democrat Party is also ready to form a government," said Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejajjiva.

The PPP got most of its support from the rural north and northeast, where Thaksin's programs, including universal heath care and generous village development funds, won a hard-core following.

The Democrats ran strongest in Bangkok, where the 2006 movement to oust Thaksin was centered. Only seven parties of 39 running won parliamentary seats. About 60 percent of 45 million eligible voters cast ballots for about 5,000 candidates.

Don't Miss
Polls open in Thailand's first post-coup election
If the PPP comes to power, said Nakarin Mektrairat, dean of Thammasat University's Faculty of Political Science, "there will be tension and conflicts," in part because of its lack of support from the capital's residents.

Thai politics has been in almost constant turmoil since early 2006, when protests mushroomed demanding that Thaksin step down, despite his party's landslide victory a year earlier giving it an absolute parliamentary majority.

An April 2006 election was boycotted by the opposition and later declared invalid by the courts, leaving Thaksin's government in limbo until the September 19 coup last year. But the military-appointed interim government that succeeded it proved weak and indecisive, failing to restore public confidence.

Thaksin was abroad at the time of his ouster, and has stayed in exile, legally barred from office, having his party dissolved by the courts, and being charged with a slew of corruption-related crimes.

Despite having vowed retirement from politics, he burnished his image from afar, with such moves as the purchase of England's Manchester City soccer club, slyly buying into the sport's popularity in Thailand.

Thaksin's PPP allies announced last week that he would return to Bangkok early next year, after a new government is installed. Thaksin did not comment publicly on the election results.

Despite its victory at the polls, the PPP will probably face an uphill battle in trying to form a government.

The forces that helped unseat Thaksin -- the military, Bangkok's educated middle class, and the country's elite, including elements associated with the country's monarchy -- have worked hard to erase Thaksin's political legacy.

They changed the constitution to limit the power of big parties and sought to demonize him as a corrupt destroyer of democracy. His return could undo their efforts and put their own positions in jeopardy.

Samak said that if possible, the PPP would grant amnesty to Thaksin and 110 other executives of his now-disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, who were barred from office for five years.

"They didn't do anything wrong," he said.

Thaksin's allies could see their tally of seats fall by 10-20 as claims of vote-buying are investigated by the Election Commission, which has been hawk-eyed in looking for PPP irregularities. A reduced total from disqualifications would complicate the task of assembling a ruling coalition.

Thailand's long-term prospects for political stability are also poor. PPP leader Samak Sundaravej, a veteran right-wing politician who has served in several Cabinets and as governor of Bangkok, has been a divisive figure for decades.

The blunt-speaking 72-year-old Samak "doesn't have a conciliatory personality. He is aggressive and uncompromising," said Narong Phetprasert, an economist at Chulalongkorn University.

Critics say Abhisit, 43, British-born and educated at Eton and Oxford, may lack the toughness necessary to keep together a coalition of parties out to get the biggest share of power they can grab.

In Washington, the State Department, which had criticized the coup against Thaksin, said it welcomed reports that the polls were held in a free and fair manner and congratulated the Thai people "on taking this crucial step toward a return to elected government."

Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the U.S. calls on all sides "to respect the results, and for a fair and transparent process for the adjudication of any disputes or fraud claims

Easy2007

12-24-07, 11:01

oth, you assume very incorrectly, and so perhaps you should assume no more :)

you also appear to be very anti-poor and anti-isaan with your initial comments.

given the majority in thailand are poor and the majority of the population are from isaan, i fail to see how can call yourself oth, given you hate the majority of the population, despise their political choice, call them "dirty" and generally insult everything about them with your attitude.

sad really.

sanook.

a very good analysis. the succession, while it will be contentious will go as planned, until 'his snibs' dies of aids and then, his sis will run things, until his mongrel son comes of age.

easy

simplistic and naiive, at best. i'm assuming you've spent your over 20 years here shacked up with some isaan girl you met in patts or somewhere, and therefore have a pro-upcountry bias.

yes, the country folk have chosen predictably because they don't understand anything except on the most basic of levels - i.e. geez, i had more money when taksin was [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) the country. therefore, taksin is good.

anyway, as i've repeated often enough, it's not taksin, samak or anyone who will be the real power. they will merely be the public face of the real power and will placate the ignorant masses with crumbs that will keep them stupid, but happy.

all the while, the power elite will stay firmly entrenched and will continue to control the real wealth.

Old Thai Hand

12-24-07, 11:07

Fortunately...

The People voted, not OTH.
The Boys in Blue kicked the hell out of the BKK self proclamed "upperclass" and that's always a good thing.
While the "hi-sos" are losing sleepover the election result, I am going to thank the Isaan population by fucking their women and rewarding each of them B200 in the process.
Oh my Buddha, I love Thailand!

Do you actually believe that the people of Isaan put one over the upperclass? The election is over and the upperclass still controls everything and the people of Isaan are still poor, ignorant and uneducated and always will be.

Nothing has changed except that for the next 9 months to a year, that thug punk Samak will be in the limelight leading the coalition, at least until pushed aside by Taksin, who, when things start to fall apart, in due course will orchestrate fake anti-government demonstrations as a pretext to declaring marshal law, so that he can become the Thai Mahathir...Then there'll be another coup and another election....and so it goes.

But, hey! You and Opebo don't have to worry. There'll still be plenty of cheap poon in the park in Korat and the back alleys of various other Isaan shitholes.

NicFrenchy

12-24-07, 11:48

The election is over and the upperclass still controls everything and the people of Isaan are still poor, ignorant and uneducated and always will be.

Nothing has changed except that for the next 9 months to a year, that thug punk Samak will be in the limelight, at least until pushed aside by Taksin, who in due course will orchestrate fake anti-government demonstrations as a pretext to declaring marshal law, so that he can become the Thai Mahathir...Then they'll be another coup and another election....and so it goes.This is unfortunately, exactly how I see things as well. This country will never evolve.

Member #2041

12-24-07, 17:08

Thailand will always perhaps be corrupt to some extent, but at least under Thaksin things got done, roads were built, many of them, airports were finished (after 25 years of Democrat assisted corruption and delays) in Bangkok, and many new airports all over Thailand. This is what the Thai's liked about TRT and Thakson, for although they may not have been saintly, they at least did get things done.
Easy2007, will you be sure to let us know when Suvarnabhumi is actually finished? And by finished, I don't just mean with an impressive array of duty-free shops all controlled by the same company, and enough chairs and shitters for the public, I mean so that the runways are remaining in one piece, and the whole place isn't sinking into the swamp.

Opebo

12-24-07, 18:55

But, hey! You and Opebo don't have to worry. There'll still be plenty of cheap poon in the park in Korat and the back alleys of various other Isaan shitholes.

I dislike the poon available anywhere in Thailand other than Pattaya, OTH. My only interest in this election is in how it effects Pattaya, which, though doomed anyway, may have more or less time remaining depending on which party wins.

I would like to point out that even today many of my colleagues expressed strong confidence that the coalition which emerges will be one led by the Democrats. Of course on the TV tonight it seemed that the Thaksin party is claiming the support of one or two of the smaller parties.

Anyway, as close as it was I think it is a bit premature to assume it is in the bag for the Thaksin party. I assume you saw that report of a PPP claim that Banharn of Chart Thai and what's-his-name from Puea Pandin were called to Prem's house for a secret meeting yesterday. The smaller parties have not absolutely committed themselves to anything yet.

Easy2007

12-25-07, 04:36

Easy2007, will you be sure to let us know when Suvarnabhumi is actually finished? And by finished, I don't just mean with an impressive array of duty-free shops all controlled by the same company, and enough chairs and shitters for the public, I mean so that the runways are remaining in one piece, and the whole place isn't sinking into the swamp. I think you are missing the point, and the major point to understand is that for many many years, the "rich ruling elite" have been milking the Thai's of all their money.

If you want to use Suvarnabhumi as an example, then first ask yourself why this new airport was never finished in nearly 3 decades? Its got everything to do with certain "rich ruling elite" having control over Don Mueang (the Air Force makes lots of money from this old airport being open you know). The only way to ever get Suvarnabhumi open (and the end game is if you can open it IT WILL HAVE to be finished, and that is the only way to get it finished) was to rush ahead and open it on a timescale, the "dark forces" could do nothing about it and so it got opened. Its not as bad as people make out, I have used it countless times, and now I have my bearings and know my shortcuts, I have no complaints.

However, yes, it was all a rushed mess, but it had to be, as it had to be opened in order to get it finished.

Is it any surprise that as soon as the CNS were in control, the old airport was opened again? And remains open. Was it any surprise that as soon as TRT were removed from power the expansion plans for Suvarnabhumi were stopped, and now suddenly its "all too late" to expand Suvarnabhumi and "we must fully reopen Don Mueang" in the meantime.

This is the "rich ruling elite" perhaps manipulating things to their own end.

Have you ever wondered why in a country like Thailand, Tollway fee's are collected manually, and paper receipts are "sometimes" given?

Well, perhaps its because each time they try to fit electronic counters and payment systems, the "rich ruling elite" order their skivvies to destroy and break them.

Why? Well perhaps its because the declared revenue is only based on how many "paper receipts" are issued. And you'll note its very rare you get a paper receipt when you pay, and so imagine how much money is siphoned off every day from undeclared Tollway revenue?

And who tried to stop this. Errrr TRT? Who closed Don Mueang. TRT? Thats just a couple of examples.

The TRT has realised the power base in Thailand is the people, keep the people happy, even if its small tokens, and they will support you. And you will win in a Democratic system.

This has really pissed off the rich ruling elite as they were always happy with coalition after coalition of weak government, ones who could not open airports or do anything, who just let the status quo remain.

Things are changing, they have changed, and although it will take many years to really change, the process is now started.

Look at Suvit of the PP (Puea Pandin), he though his reputation in Isaan would win for the PP against the PPP. He lost, and by big margins.

The people of Isaan have woken up to the fact that there is finally a party that will spend money on them, they have tasted it, they are now hungry, and they want more. The awakening of the poor second class is now happening.

Whilst OTH and others will blindly ignore this and treat the poor of Thailand with contempt, they can for the moment, but the start of change has happened, and it will grow.

Many people wonder why on this forum there are not so many "pretty girls" around anymore over the past few years. Well thank the TRT for that, as they empowered Isaan, and helped the micro and macro economy grow in Isaan, and there was less need for the poor to send their girls off to work in the bars. Take a tour around Isaan, you'll see factories galore being built, many new housing projects, lots of people with new houses, new cars, lots of small business projects, and lots of pretty girls.

From a mongerers perspective, a PPP win is bad news.

From a view point of perhaps seeing the seeds of change in Thailand, and a big reduction in the power of the Bangkokians, and a massive increase in the power of the people in Isaan, then a PPP win is a must.

At the end of the day, if you really do love Thailand, and Thai's, then the eradication of poverty is a main goal, and one that will only be acheived if the "rich ruling elite" get screwed and the PPP stays in power for a decade.

Old Thai Hand

12-26-07, 02:37

easy

i would suspect that you live in isaan, have an isaan wife and have been taken in by the charm of the "salt of the earth" country folk and more to the point have had little, if any real contact with the ruling class. your understanding of things is incredibly simplistic and overtly idealistic. the trt were popular in isaan because they managed to con the yokels with a few crumbs here and there, all the while continuing to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) the country. the ppp will follow suit.

also, as i've pointed out several times, there are the hisos and then there's those above them, (including 'you-know-who' and his clan) who are actually in control. that includes those that truly controlled the trt, taksin and now samak and the ppp. these people are so far above anyone, that they are out of reach of any sort of "people power". there is not, nor will there ever be power to the people in this country.

it may be true that economic change will lead to somewhat better lives for the poor of isaan and thus perhaps less girls will go into p4p. but, that will only ever happen to the point of placating the masses and keeping them quiet. also, it will be a natural by-product of the increasing industrialization of thailand.

it's quite simple really. money is power, particularly here. and, the money in this country will remain firmly in the grip of the few who have always had it. no bunch of ignorant rice farmers will ever change that. afterall, who do you think owns all those new factories and housing estates in isaan? the rich have just found new opportunities to line their pockets by deluding the simpletons into thinking that their lives are in for a real change.

my "contempt" for the poor, as you call it is not because they're poor, but because they often look for the easy way out and therefore play into the hands of unscrupulous people like taksin and samak. fyi, my contempt also extends to the ruling elite and i unlike you, i think i am quite familiar with them (i meet them all the time and teach their kids)...and they scare the be-jesus out of me. the only thais i have any respect for at all are the middle-classes (the ones who voted for the democrats) because they are the true unfortunates of this country. they're the ones who "get it" and the ones who try against impossible odds to make true change in this country. they're the ones who truly support this country - i.e. they are the ones who are educated, are the most liberal, and btw pay the lion share of the taxes. the rich don't pay taxes because they have ways around it. isaan people don't pay taxes because they don't earn enough. (btw, do you pay taxes here? because, i do - probably more per month, than those isaan people, you love so much earn total in a month). the middle class bear the burden of this country and they almost universally rejected the ppp.

imho, that says everything about who should truly be running things.

Easy2007

12-26-07, 02:56

oth, they did not con the yokels, they were in fact the first party to give them something, with those crumbs. and those crumbs have in fact made a big difference to life in isaan. its rather akin to say, if you give 1 million dollars to a billionaire (aka spending money on bangkokians) its not appreciated. but give 10 thousand dollars to a poor farmer (give some crumbs to isaan) and see what things can be done.

i am fully aware of how the system works, and the uber rich controllers you will never touch, and no-one will, however the next layer down is the one that is upset with trt and is not happy with the ppp.

its going to be very interesting to see what happens next.

the ppp must reward, and so they should, those that voted them in, so should be lots of money spent on infrastructure and projects in the north, northeast, east and central regions.

a new election is likely just 2 years away, maybe less, the ppp will likely reward their voters, get the trt banned 111 back into the political game, and then disolve the government and call new elections, in order to get a massive landslide victory again.

i have plenty of dealings with both sides of the coin, you do not get business done unless you wine and dine with the various generals needed to smooth through issues.

if things were as simplistic as you say, there would never have been a coup, and never a need to.

no, there is a political change afoot, and provided the ppp do reward in the short term the people who just voted for them, and call an early election again with the 111 back, then the political change will grow further and possibily not be able to be reversed.

anyway, there is not point discussing politics really, it polarises people and its only just opinions anyway, the real truth can never be proven, and indeed to be a politician you must be a natural liar is the saying.

therefore, rather than disagree on what are clearly and totally just opinions that we speculate over via this board, lets put politics to sleep, and get back to the more important issues at hand. like mongering.

easy

i would suspect that you live in isaan, have an isaan wife and have been taken in by the charm of the "salt of the earth" country folk and more to the point have had little, if any real contact with the ruling class. your understanding of things is incredibly simplistic and overtly idealistic. the trt were popular in isaan because they managed to con the yokels with a few crumbs here and there, all the while continuing to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) the country. the ppp will follow suit.

also, as i've pointed out several times, there are the hisos and then there's those above them who are actually in control. that includes those that truly controlled the trt, taksin and now samak and the ppp. these people are so far above anyone, that they are out of reach of any sort of "people power". there is not, nor will there ever be power to the people in this country.

it may be true that economic change will lead to somewhat better lives for the poor of isaan and thus perhaps less girls will go into p4p. but, that will only ever happen to the point of placating the masses and keeping them quiet. also, it will be a natural by-product of the increasing industrialization of thailand.

it's quite simple really. money is power, particularly here. and, the money in this country will remain firmly in the grip of the few who have always had it. no bunch of ignorant rice farmers will ever change that.

NicFrenchy

12-26-07, 05:00

My "contempt" for the poor is not because they're poor, but because they often look for the easy way out and therefore play into the hands of unscrupulous people like Taksin and Samak..<text removed>... The rich don't pay taxes because they have ways around it. Isaan people don't pay taxes because they don't earn enough. The middle class bear the burden of this country and they almost universally rejected the PPP.

IMHO, that says everything about who should truly be running things.OTH,

Wasn't Samak Governor of Bangkok? Apparently he did a very bad job of it. Could it be one of the reasons the PPP got so few seats in BKK?

Opebo

12-26-07, 09:38

I think both Easy and OTH have good points here - mass party politics has clearly come to Thailand to stay, and on the surface it does appear to 'empower' the working class. However, I think we can see from the American case that this does not necessarily reduce the power of the owners one iota. America has had this kind of party politics for a century and it is still just as much a plutocracy as ever - and getting moreso every year.

The real question, as I see it, is what methods the controllers use to control - is it the A vs. B farce of democracy or is it some more traditional dictatorship, military junta, etc. I think it is clear the latter are far better for we sex tourists, but in neither case is there much change in from whence power is commanded.

Anyway, I would also like to point out that the PPP 'win' was not a landslide at all, but actually quite narrow, and in fact no government has been formed yet... and my upper-middle class Thai chums still insist the next PM will not be Samak (and certainly not Thaksin). Maybe they're in a dream world, but they say it will be Abhisit.

Old Thai Hand

12-26-07, 13:09

Opebo

Nice, reasonable report.

Easy

Why put politics to rest? This is the reason for this thread. There are more than enough threads for mongering info. There are actually at least a few people here that are interested in other things besides the cost of ST vs. LT and the increase in barfines at Nana.

Markos Greece

12-26-07, 15:18

Opebo,

Why put politics to rest? This is the reason for this thread. There are more than enough threads for mongering info.I totally agree, this thread is very informative for all of us to get opinions on Thailand's political scene.

We have plenty of threads with mongering stuff.

LittleBigMan

12-26-07, 19:12

Just another 2 cents, Everything that has been said is very interesting especially for someone like myself that need to learn more about the country that I reside now.

Thailand just like China, has the masses in the countryside. I wonder if Thaksin learn from Mao writings. Didn't Mao unite the masses in the countryside? We all know what happen after that!

I think in the end, from what has happened in the last year that everyone has learn from this experience and that in the end they will all make enough concessions to save face and continue to run this country in the manner that will fill their pockets at the expense of the poor Thai's! The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer! Even Thaksin has to appreciate if it wasn't for the farangs helping him and his family live in comfort oversea's he would have been extradited back to Thailand long ago. So Thak! give us farangs a break! In time he will come back to Thailand if he agrees to stay out of poliltics, they in turn will drop charges and their investigation will go quietly too. Like the Mafia, if everyone gets a cut of the pie, all is good!

Thaksin couldn't give a shit about Thailand, he just wants to come home and be a celebrity with his Soccer team.

Clear, simple off the wall observation from LBM

Old Thai Hand

12-27-07, 03:09

Like the Mafia, if everyone gets a cut of the pie, all is good!

Thailand is run by its own Mafia and the bosses control Taksin. Like in the movie Casino, Taksin is like Robert De Niro's character and Samak is like Joe Pesci's character.

You're right. Taksin doesn't give a shit about Thailand, but only about power. The rich will get richer, the poor will get a few bits and bobs to keep them quiet (the 30 baht health scheme, OTOP, village funds to buy a new motorcycle) and the status quo will be maintained.

Expect things to get even tougher for Farang with more stringent visa regulations and higher fees. I've heard of a scheme to try to charge Farang retirees some form of income tax. I'm not exactly against this idea, since I have to pay taxes. It would be good if other expat residents, who are not working still had to pay taxes, as well.

Jungle Bluebird

12-27-07, 03:56

Spot on!

So who is Ginger then? Hey, I found her. Check:http://www.pantip.com/cafe/chalermthai/topic/A5946379/A5946379.html

or watch the video: http://video.mthai.com/player.php?id=11M1193994047M0

Decadence at it's best

JB

Thailand is run by its own Mafia and the bosses control Taksin. Like in the movie Casino, Taksin is like Robert De Niro's character and Samak is like Joe Pesci's character.

Meepmeep99

12-27-07, 07:20

Good to know. 4000 is way to much for Nana Entertainment center. Let's see how far they come with this agreement. Have to admit that I am rather a fan of Soi Cowboy then Nana. They obviously have catched up there. And girls LT are between 2000 and 3000 depending on girl time of agreement etc.
I have definitely good experiance with Soi Cowboy GoGo girls.

Regards

Brain666

PS: when the strategy of fixed prices fails we see then the Rainbow girls in the Nana Parking lot for about a half.In my opinion the Rainbow Nana girls are the 'Cream de la fuckin creme' and had the best looking girls i ever saw in a 5 months stint but cowboy was just a load of free lancers types in swimwear. I love how they don't smile at the rainbow. Gggrrrr!

PinkPearl

12-27-07, 13:06

Expect things to get even tougher for Farang with more stringent visa regulations and higher fees.It is possible. Although the BKK Post recently reported a plan to increase tourism by making the Thai and Cambodian VISAS good for both cuntries.

Love Sex 22

12-28-07, 01:40

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will be arrested if he returns home from self-imposed exile as planned, even if his victorious allies form a government following last weekend's general election, officials said Thursday.

Thaksin tells a news conference in Hong Kong on Tuesday that he plans to return to Thailand.

Thaksin and members of his family face an array of corruption-related charges from the former leader's six years in office. He was overthrown in a bloodless, military coup last year.

"The court and police had already issued arrest warrants on him so once he arrives back to Thailand the authorities concerned are duty-bound by law to arrest him," Samphan Sarathana, a senior official in the Office of the Attorney General told The Associated Press.

"The case is gone too far for a reversal," he said.

Samphan, a director-general in the office, said the results of the election, won by the pro-Thaksin People's Power Party or PPP, had no bearing on the legal cases against the former prime minister.

Thaksin said in Hong Kong Tuesday that he is exploring options about a comeback to Thailand between mid-February and April.

He vowed to stay out of direct politics but said he was prepared to serve as adviser to the PPP.

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Pro-Thaksin party agrees coalition
The PPP won 233 of 480 seats in the lower house of Parliament in the Dec. 23 vote, while its top rival, the Democrat Party, won 165.

The PPP says it has already gathered enough support from smaller parties to form a coalition, but analysts say that horse-trading continues and that it is too early to declare the pro-Thaksin grouping as Thailand's next government.

An arrest warrant was issued for Thaksin in August after he failed to appear in court in a case involving conflict of interest in a land deal while he was in power. His wife Pojamarn is accused of illegally buying real estate from a government agency effectively controlled by her husband.

The military-appointed government that succeeded Thaksin launched several investigations into his alleged corruption and have frozen millions of dollars of his family's assets. Other cases against him and family members are pending.

The 58-year-old multimillionaire, who owns the Manchester City soccer club, has been living mostly in England since his ouster in September, 2006.

Sanook D

12-28-07, 09:43

From Not the Nation, which is a hoot:
http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=263

Populist Revolution Elects Fascist PM
Right-wing millionaire to lead disenfranchised, upcountry poor to new heights of prosperity and inclusion

BANGKOK – In what news analysts are calling a major political statement , the working-class majority of Thailand took control of their own destiny in this weekend’s parliamentary elections, re-affirming their commitment to the populist revolution through the selection of a known fascist and unapologetic right-wing strongman as premier.

Unofficial results show the People Power Party winning 228 seats, just 13 short of an outright majority. Party leader Samak Sundaravej, who was Interior Minister during the violent suppression of unarmed student protesters in October 1976, as well as Deputy Prime Minister during the violent suppression of unarmed student protesters in 1992, has stated that he will “certainly be the next PM.”

“Now I have the power. Me. All the power. Me me me me me. You’re all little people,” said Samak at a press conference, wearing victory garlands around his neck and holding up two fingers in a “victory” sign. When asked how his hardliner past might be incompatible with the populist policies of the PPP, which was created from the remnants of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s party after the September 2006 coup, Samak replied “Who the hell are you to ask me that? Did your mother have sex with a river iguana? How old are you? You’re an unripe fruit with no rights to ask questions of a man like me.”

The main opposition, Thailand’s Democratic party, swept Bangkok but only secured 163 seats. Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva expressed confidence that his party would still play an important role in governing the country and promoting transparency. He also expressed some disappointment that the poor rural voters of Thailand failed to exactly follow the example set by the wealthy, educated classes of Bangkok. “We stressed empathy and compassion in our campaign materials too,” said the British-born, Eton- and Oxford-educated Abhisit. “I’m shocked that it didn’t work.”

PinkPearl

12-28-07, 12:10

From Not the Nation, which is a hoot:
http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=263

...Samak Sundaravej, who was Interior Minister during the violent suppression of unarmed student protesters in October 1976, as well as Deputy Prime Minister during the violent suppression of unarmed student protesters in 1992, has stated that he will “certainly be the next PM.”

“Now I have the power. Me. All the power. Me me me me me. You’re all little people,” said Samak at a press conference, wearing victory garlands around his neck and holding up two fingers in a “victory” sign.Ha ha. Samak should get together with Borat for his next movie.

"Kazakstan number one nation in the world.

All other cuntries are run by little girls."

Old Thai Hand

12-31-07, 08:20

It is possible. Although the BKK Post recently reported a plan to increase tourism by making the Thai and Cambodian VISAS good for both cuntries.

I was mainly speaking about expats, not tourists.

When I arrived here 11 years ago, you could simply go to Penang with some letter stating that someone wanted to hire your to do so any kind of work and for 1100 baht, you could get a 1 year, Multi-entry Imm. B visa. After Taksin the prices trippled, his govt. added 90 day reporting, and you needed a minimum 1 year contract for at leastr 50,000/month (teachers are exempted from this) and ultimately a work permit. They have since added that you have to show original degrees, university transcripts and a police report from Interpol.

NicFrenchy

01-01-08, 02:34

They have since added that you have to show original degrees, university transcripts and a police report from Interpol.In 3 years and 3 visas applications (all approved) with work permits, I have never been asked for either Diplomas (Originals I mean) or Police report. and the latest visa + Work permit Approval I went to was 10 days ago.

Maybe they ask this to teachers only.

Old Thai Hand

01-01-08, 09:20

In 3 years and 3 visas applications (all approved) with work permits, I have never been asked for either Diplomas (Originals I mean) or Police report. and the latest visa + Work permit Approval I went to was 10 days ago.

Maybe they ask this to teachers only.

I was speaking in general terms.

Personally, I have never been asked for a police report or original certificates. But, I mentioned it because recently some associates were asked. But, even in this there are inconsistencies from place to place. According to some people with whom I work, the criteria is much tougher at the Thai Embassy in Singapore than in Penang, for example. The last time I changed jobs (May, 2006), I went to Penang, and only had to show copies of my degrees and my contract, while another person went to Singapore and had to practically present his first-born.

It is well-known that there are often significant differences between one Thai embassy and the next.

Acerboy

01-02-08, 07:13

OTH,

Wasn't Samak Governor of Bangkok? Apparently he did a very bad job of it. Could it be one of the reasons the PPP got so few seats in BKK?Samak didn't do a great job and had some corruption issues while in Bangkok. But more to it that Bangkok overall has been anti Thaksin thus anti PPP.

Jungle Bluebird

01-02-08, 08:47

...'interview in Hong Kong'. Already half way home :-)

(BangkokPost.com from agencies) - Deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra said he harbours no ill-will toward the generals who deposed him and if permitted back in Thailand, would like to invite them to a game of golf and call a truce.

"I would invite them to play golf with me. Then, it will be over," Mr Thaksin said in an interview broadcast in Hong Kong on Wednesday. He added that revenge would solve nothing.

He also insisted he has no intention of resuming his political career despite his allies victory in Dec 23 general elections.

"I want to return to Thailand as an ordinary Thai and don't need to have any position or salary," he said, adding that he wants to devote himself to 'charity work.'

He dismissed speculation that he would seek revenge against the generals who ousted him.

"What would I get out of it? I might feel gratified but the country would be damaged," he asked.

Love Sex 22

01-09-08, 09:48

BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- The wife of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra arrived in Thailand Tuesday morning to face corruption charges, promising to fight the accusations, her attorney said.

Pojamarn Shinawatra with her husband Thaksin Shinawatra.

According to Pichit Chuenban, Pojamarn Shinawatra was presented with an arrest warrant shortly after arriving at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport and was escorted by authorities to the Supreme Court.

"She intends to fight all charges through judicial system," Pichit said.

Greeted by about 50 well-wishers, Pojamarn arrived at court accompanied by her three children. She faces charges stemming from a Bangkok land deal and a stock concealment plan that could put her in jail for up to eight years, according to the Thai News Agency.

The court released her on 5 million baht (about $168,000) bail and ordered her not to leave the country.

On Monday, Thaksin's attorney Noppadon Pattama said the former prime minister would return from exile in mid-April to answer to the same charges his wife faces. He was deposed by a military junta in Sept. 2006 and fled to London. He plans to return after Thailand's new government is in place.

In December's parliamentary elections, supporters of Thaksin, the People Power Party, won nearly half the seats in the lower house and will lead the ruling coalition.

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Pro Thaksin party claims victory
PPP leader Samak Sundaravej said a new parliament controlled by his party would pass an amnesty law to allow Thaksin's return and amend the constitution to let Thaksin get back into politics.

Thaksin said he would not re-enter politics when he returned to Thailand. He said that he and his family had "suffered enough" but that he wanted to face the charges against him and prove his innocence.

Thaksin is a 58-year-old telecommunications tycoon who owns the English Premier League Manchester City Football Club. Thaksin's party won two landslide victories before he was deposed

Old Thai Hand

01-27-08, 13:17

With some of the worst, most incompetent political thugs in Thai history already taking power in the new government, I along with other bleeding heart liberals :D (i.e. the Thai middle-class) continue to be exasperated at the stupidity of the masses upcountry for so easily being bought and putting these animals in charge.

I have even been contemplated departing for "the world", thinking somehow the grass may once again be greener on the other side of the hill.

However, the sheer silliness of "modern" America has made me realize, that as bad as it may be here, it's still preferable to the darkness that currently engulfs the US (and by extension, my home country Canada).

Case in point: I was using the movie TRON in a class this week and while doing research on it, I discovered that it was a "listed" film. It has been flagged by Homeland Security as a film that they describe as "sensitive" because it contains interior shots of Lawrence Livermore Labs (circa 1982!!!! for Gawd's sake) and could possibly provide information on nuclear technology. As if this wasn't silly enough, Disney has been ordered to turn over all masters of the film and to attempt to locate and hand over all copies of the film.

Suddenly, I find myself in possession of material considered a threat to US national security. I imagine myself flying home and being taken into custody and grilled for hours in a effort to determine what dangerous information I had gleaned from watching a 26 year old Disney film in which Jeff Bridges is de-constructed by a laser in the Livermore labs. That gee-whiz patriot, Walt must be turning over in his grave.

Obviously, Thailand doesn't have a monopoly on silliness. And, at least the silliness here is relatively harmless, most of the time.

Despite the many things that annoy, expats like myself need to remember that there is much here to appreciate over the more "civilized" parts of the world.

Terry Terrier

01-28-08, 00:39

Easy2007

01-28-08, 03:06

thailand has been "raped" by an aristocrat-military partnership for many decades.

i find it most amusing and in fact "liberating" that the "masses upcountry" have now found a very powerful weapen with which to "beat the aristocratic-military" partnership.

its called "voting" and "democracy".

i told you the ppp would win.

i told you this is the start of change in thailand.

no longer bangkokians call how the country develops, the masses upcountry now call the shots, and want the money to develop their region too. bangkok for too long has had too much money thrown at it, and wasted as it filtered into peoples pockets. now the money must be thrown up north and north-east, where what little that gets through can make dramatic changes to peoples lives.

with some of the worst, most incompetent political thugs in thai history already taking power in the new government, i along with other bleeding heart liberals :d (i.e. the thai middle-class) continue to be exasperated at the stupidity of the masses upcountry for so easily being bought and putting these animals in charge.

i have even been contemplated departing for "the world", thinking somehow the grass may once again be greener on the other side of the hill.

however, the sheer silliness of "modern" america has made me realize, that as bad as it may be here, it's still preferable to the darkness that currently engulfs the us (and by extension, my home country canada).

case in point: i was using the movie tron in a class this week and while doing research on it, i discovered that it was a "listed" film. it has been flagged by homeland security as a film that they describe as "sensitive" because it contains interior shots of lawrence livermore labs (circa 1982!!!! for gawd's sake) and could possibly provide information on nuclear technology. as if this wasn't silly enough, disney has been ordered to turn over all masters of the film and to attempt to locate and hand over all copies of the film.

suddenly, i find myself in possession of material considered a threat to us national security. i imagine myself flying home and being taken into custody and grilled for hours in a effort to determine what dangerous information i had gleaned from watching a 26 year old disney film in which jeff bridges is de-constructed by a laser in the livermore labs. that gee-whiz patriot, walt must be turning over in his grave.

obviously, thailand doesn't have a monopoly on silliness. and, at least the silliness here is relatively harmless, most of the time.

despite the many things that annoy, expats like myself need to remember that there is much here to appreciate over the more "civilized" parts of the world.

Old Thai Hand

01-28-08, 13:33

thailand has been "raped" by an aristocrat-military partnership for many decades.

i find it most amusing and in fact "liberating" that the "masses upcountry" have now found a very powerful weapen with which to "beat the aristocratic-military" partnership.

its called "voting" and "democracy".

i told you the ppp would win.

i told you this is the start of change in thailand.

no longer bangkokians call how the country develops, the masses upcountry now call the shots, and want the money to develop their region too. bangkok for too long has had too much money thrown at it, and wasted as it filtered into peoples pockets. now the money must be thrown up north and north-east, where what little that gets through can make dramatic changes to peoples lives.

you have a simplistic, (perhaps simpleton's) view of thai politics.

nobody doubted the ppp would win. they played dirty, bought up the votes of the yokels and are now filling the ministries with the old political guard and some of the biggest crooks in thailand.

soon-to-be pm samak is a thief and under investigation for corruption and numerous shady financial deals.

house speaker yongyuth "the refrigator" is noted for one single act: peppering the fridge of an 80 y.o. granny (and nearly killing her in the process) in a drug raid which targeted the wrong house during taksin's "war" (i.e. slaughter) on drugs. yongyuth is also under investigation.

the finance minister will be the secretary of ppp, surapong. he's a medical doctor has little experience for the job.

oh and let's not forget the probable new interior minister, who two brat sons have brawled numerous times with anyone who looks at them the wrong way in various bangkok clubs and always gotten away with it. one murdered a cop in one such "disagreement", flew the coop to cambodia, was caught and walked without ever serving any amount of time for the murder.

ya. hurray for democracy....

and, btw, the aristocratic, military elite are still firmly in control behind the scenes. don't kid yourself.

Thor93

01-28-08, 17:26

I have even been contemplated departing for "the world", thinking somehow the grass may once again be greener on the other side of the hill.

However, the sheer silliness of "modern" America has made me realize, that as bad as it may be here, it's still preferable to the darkness that currently engulfs the US (and by extension, my home country Canada).

Case in point: I was using the movie TRON in a class this week and while doing research on it, I discovered that it was a "listed" film. It has been flagged by Homeland Security as a film that they describe as "sensitive" because it contains interior shots of Lawrence Livermore Labs (circa 1982!!!! for Gawd's sake) and could possibly provide information on nuclear technology. As if this wasn't silly enough, Disney has been ordered to turn over all masters of the film and to attempt to locate and hand over all copies of the film.

Suddenly, I find myself in possession of material considered a threat to US national security. I imagine myself flying home and being taken into custody and grilled for hours in a effort to determine what dangerous information I had gleaned from watching a 26 year old Disney film in which Jeff Bridges is de-constructed by a laser in the Livermore labs. That gee-whiz patriot, Walt must be turning over in his grave.

Obviously, Thailand doesn't have a monopoly on silliness. And, at least the silliness here is relatively harmless, most of the time.

Despite the many things that annoy, expats like myself need to remember that there is much here to appreciate over the more "civilized" parts of the world.

It seems you got taken in on the TRON spoof. It was a hoax, but since it fit in with what most Bush-Bashers wanted to believe, it was generally accepted as truth. It only takes a quick Google search to find the facts, but when you want to believe something, it is easy to be led along like sheep.

"Tron" Ban Just a Joke on Us
Posted Apr 2nd 2007 11:22AM by TMZ Staff

An April Fool's joke about the sci-fi movie "Tron" made the rounds on the Internet this weekend, and sadly fooled a few of us here at TMZ.

A tech blog said that the Department of Homeland Security had designated the 1982 film as "sensitive," because "a portion of the movie's live-action sequence was filmed at Shiva, a nuclear fusion research facility created at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory," which is apparently a lot of hooey. The same blog also reported that Walt Disney Studios was ordered to turn over all copies of the film and that retailers were told to pull all copies off shelves.

If one had bothered to read the entire article, they would have noticed that FBI agent Lirpa Sloof was quoted in it. Lirpa Sloof is "April Fools" spelled backward. Well done people, well done.

Easy2007

01-29-08, 03:15

I think you have the "simpletons" view of events OTH.

You cannot appreciate "change in process". You cannot appreciate that the coup ended in complete failure, and that retribution will be coming to them in the years ahead.

What will happen now is a short term government, maybe 1 year or maybe 2, then with the 111 ex TRT execs back in the game after being pardoned, there will be a new election called, and then a new single party government elected, and then. Then the retribution will commence, and you can be sure your "friends" will be effected at that time.

Never mind, keep living in your cotton wool wrapped world, kidding youself you are in touch with whats going on.

You, and your friends, all thought, no, lets say assumed and reported that the Democrats would win. And Samak would never be PM. How out of touch you really are.

You could never have been more wrong, and yet try to spin this off now as "we all knew it would happen".

Total rubbish. You have no clue, go back to teaching, its where most dreamers spend their careers. Especially in Thailand.

You have a simplistic, (perhaps simpleton's) view of Thai politics.

Nobody doubted the PPP would win. They played dirty, bought up the votes of the yokels and are now filling the ministries with the old political guard and some of the biggest crooks in Thailand.

Soon-to-be PM Samak is a thief and under investigation for corruption and numerous shady financial deals.

House speaker Yongyuth "the refrigator" is noted for one single act: peppering the fridge of an 80 y.o. granny (and nearly killing her in the process) in a drug raid which targeted the wrong house during Taksin's "war" (i.e. slaughter) on drugs. Yongyuth is also under investigation.

The finance minister will be the secretary of PPP, Surapong. He's a medical doctor has little experience for the job.

Oh and let's not forget the probable new Interior Minister, who two brat sons have brawled numerous times with anyone who looks at them the wrong way in various Bangkok clubs and always gotten away with it. One murdered a cop in one such "disagreement", flew the coop to Cambodia, was caught and walked without ever serving any amount of time for the murder.

Ya. Hurray for democracy....

and, BTW, the aristocratic, military elite are still firmly in control behind the scenes. Don't kid yourself.

Old Thai Hand

01-29-08, 03:21

It seems you got taken in on the TRON spoof. It was a hoax, but since it fit in with what most Bush-Bashers wanted to believe, it was generally accepted as truth. It only takes a quick Google search to find the facts, but when you want to believe something, it is easy to be led along like sheep.

"Tron" Ban Just a Joke on Us
Posted Apr 2nd 2007 11:22AM by TMZ Staff

An April Fool's joke about the sci-fi movie "Tron" made the rounds on the Internet this weekend, and sadly fooled a few of us here at TMZ.

A tech blog said that the Department of Homeland Security had designated the 1982 film as "sensitive," because "a portion of the movie's live-action sequence was filmed at Shiva, a nuclear fusion research facility created at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory," which is apparently a lot of hooey. The same blog also reported that Walt Disney Studios was ordered to turn over all copies of the film and that retailers were told to pull all copies off shelves.

If one had bothered to read the entire article, they would have noticed that FBI agent Lirpa Sloof was quoted in it. Lirpa Sloof is "April Fools" spelled backward. Well done people, well done.

More fool I. Funny.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

Bush and his thugs have stomped on the ordinary rights of citizens since 9/11 and in another time and place they would be judged as war criminals. But, being Pres of the most powerful nation on earth, he'll live out his life in pleasant retirement on his ranch and it will only be history that judges him for what he has done.

1Ball

01-29-08, 03:41

Bush and his thugs have stomped on the ordinary rights of citizens since 9/11 and in another time and place they would be judged as war criminals. But, being Pres of the most powerful nation on earth, he'll live out his life in pleasant retirement on his ranch and it will only be history that judges him for what he has done.
OTH, as far as I am concerned, he should be handcuffed, sitting in the same chair Milosovic sat in, at the war crimes tribunal in La Hague.

NicFrenchy

01-29-08, 04:07

OTH, as far as I am concerned, he should be handcuffed, sitting in the same chair Milosovic sat in, at the war crimes tribunal in La Hague.I'd much prefer if he was Executed like Nicolae Ceauşescu in 1989.

LittleBigMan

01-29-08, 04:30

The sooner he is gone the better! but we deserve him since so many idiots voted for him twice! I just hope when they said what goes around comes around for him I hope it is sooner than later!

LBM

Old Thai Hand

01-29-08, 13:08

OTH, as far as I am concerned, he should be handcuffed, sitting in the same chair Milosovic sat in, at the war crimes tribunal in La Hague.

Bringing this back to Thai politics...Taksin and his cronies are responsible for the murder of well over 2,000 Thais during his so-called war on drugs. If there was ever a murderous criminal, it's him. Yet he'll return triumphant in the Spring, never be convicted for any of his numerous crimes against the people of Thailand and most likely will rule once again in the not-to-distant future - and Thailand has the morons of Isaan to thank for that.

There is no democracy or justice in this country and there never will be.

NicFrenchy

01-29-08, 15:30

and Thailand has the morons of Isaan to thank for that.That's easy for you to say. I bet if you were a Poor Farmer you would think differently. Calling them Morons might be a little harsh, they are uneducated and poor is all they are, and the Owners of Thailand like to keep them that way don't they? so no point in them crying now.

1Ball

01-29-08, 15:51

OTH, I read today in the Post he is banned from politics for 5 years?
Of course, he will rule in the background, but will he be "officially" in charge?

Easy2007

01-29-08, 18:02

Oth. WRONG.

Thailand has morons like you and your friends for the present problems in the country.

The war on drugs was a wonderful success, drug dealing was massively reduced, the massive amount of kids getting into it was stopped, and for its purpose, which was a "WAR ON DRUGS" it was a resounding success.

The fact a few people got killed makes liberal tossers like you get all red eyed and crying doesn't it.

FACT. Drug trading and drug pushers were massively reduced. So much so that there were serious knock on effects in Burma and China where the production factories are.

In most countries you are forced to wear a seat belt, even though in certain kinds of accidents wearing a seat belt can kill you, as opposed to surviving if you were not wearing one. However, FOR THE GREATER GOOD people are forced to wear it, even though sometimes it can kill.

When the liberal asswipes who are screwing up the western world with their "human rights" bullshit, take notice of what a social mess they are creating, where everyone loses their rights and liberties cause there is no effective rule of law anymore, they can proudly say what a complete mess they have made of it all.

HOWEVER, in Asia you don't fuck with government. Singapore happily knocks off people all the time, why do you think one party has been in power so long. Don't hear you complaining?

So, when the Thai police force kill off 2000 people, who in the most were drug pushers and dealers. Well, its a good thing. Its pro-active, and I can say, as I have been in Thailand a long time, that that war on drugs made a massive difference, it seriously reduced the amount of drug pushing and dealing.

To this day it has not escalated back to the levels it was before the war on drugs, however since your coup buddies took over things have been worse again.

Thailand needs Thaksin back in power, we need more "wars on drugs", we need more of the scum of Thailand wiped out with a nice bullet in the head.

Why OLT are you safe to walk around Bangkok at night, without much fear of being mugged or beaten up? Its cause the police will kick the f'k out of criminals, and often stick a bullet in their head. No courts, no judges, wipe the shit out the simple way, bullet in the head, no questions asked.

Now if the police in NYC or London could do that, well, violent crime would greatly reduce would it not, and a lot of the scum who "live" on tax payers money in nice comfy prisons cause liberals like you want them to feel "nice and comfy" in that cell. Well, they would be dead, and the tax payers money could be used on much more important things than keeping scum in comfort in prison.

Have a nice evening :)

Bringing this back to Thai politics...Taksin and his cronies are responsible for the murder of well over 2,000 Thais during his so-called war on drugs. If there was ever a murderous criminal, it's him. Yet he'll return triumphant in the Spring, never be convicted for any of his numerous crimes against the people of Thailand and most likely will rule once again in the not-to-distant future - and Thailand has the morons of Isaan to thank for that.

There is no democracy or justice in this country and there never will be.

Old Thai Hand

01-30-08, 02:38

That's easy for you to say. I bet if you were a Poor Farmer you would think differently. Calling them Morons might be a little harsh, they are uneducated and poor is all they are, and the Owners of Thailand like to keep them that way don't they? so no point in them crying now.

Yes perhaps harsh. But, the stupidity of the election has made me quite angry. The people of Isaan are so easily bought for a few hundred baht, and therefore they are the ones responsible for putting into place what will shape up to be a very bad, self-serving, perhaps dangerous bunch of incompetents who in reality don't give a toss about the plight of the poor. Those that think the PPP are for the people are at best, naiive and at worst just plain stupid.

The only guy who could have brought some sense of decency and fairness to Thai politics and by extension, really helped the country - Abhisit - is too nice a person to play the dirty games necessary to win.

Also, the fact that the people of Isaan are uneducated is at least in part their own doing. There is an attitude in Isaan among many people that education has no value. Therefore, many only have a primary education, even though universal education to the high school level is guaranteed under the constitution. The drop-out rate is highest among the rural poor in Isaan, despite them being constantly told that it is their best way out of the perpetual spiral of poverty. Lack of money is part of the problem to be sure. But, there are scholarships and student loans available for those who want to go on to university. But, a relative few take advantage of it. Young girls get knocked up at an early age, and/or become hookers, and the irresponsible men/boys who have abandoned them, get pissed most of the time and end up at best driving motorcycle taxis in Bangkok. Many just lay about and do nothing.

They are an uninspired, and uninspiring sub-section of the Thai population.

Old Thai Hand

01-30-08, 02:46

Oth. WRONG.

Thailand has morons like you and your friends for the present problems in the country.

The war on drugs was a wonderful success, drug dealing was massively reduced, the massive amount of kids getting into it was stopped, and for its purpose, which was a "WAR ON DRUGS" it was a resounding success.

The fact a few people got killed makes liberal tossers like you get all red eyed and crying doesn't it.

FACT. Drug trading and drug pushers were massively reduced. So much so that there were serious knock on effects in Burma and China where the production factories are.

In most countries you are forced to wear a seat belt, even though in certain kinds of accidents wearing a seat belt can kill you, as opposed to surviving if you were not wearing one. However, FOR THE GREATER GOOD people are forced to wear it, even though sometimes it can kill.

When the liberal asswipes who are screwing up the western world with their "human rights" bullshit, take notice of what a social mess they are creating, where everyone loses their rights and liberties cause there is no effective rule of law anymore, they can proudly say what a complete mess they have made of it all.

HOWEVER, in Asia you don't fuck with government. Singapore happily knocks off people all the time, why do you think one party has been in power so long. Don't hear you complaining?

So, when the Thai police force kill off 2000 people, who in the most were drug pushers and dealers. Well, its a good thing. Its pro-active, and I can say, as I have been in Thailand a long time, that that war on drugs made a massive difference, it seriously reduced the amount of drug pushing and dealing.

To this day it has not escalated back to the levels it was before the war on drugs, however since your coup buddies took over things have been worse again.

Thailand needs Thaksin back in power, we need more "wars on drugs", we need more of the scum of Thailand wiped out with a nice bullet in the head.

Why OLT are you safe to walk around Bangkok at night, without much fear of being mugged or beaten up? Its cause the police will kick the f'k out of criminals, and often stick a bullet in their head. No courts, no judges, wipe the shit out the simple way, bullet in the head, no questions asked.

Now if the police in NYC or London could do that, well, violent crime would greatly reduce would it not, and a lot of the scum who "live" on tax payers money in nice comfy prisons cause liberals like you want them to feel "nice and comfy" in that cell. Well, they would be dead, and the tax payers money could be used on much more important things than keeping scum in comfort in prison.

Have a nice evening :)

WOW! This post speaks for itself.

There's simply no point in countering what is a glaring display of ultra-right-wing, thug-like thinking.

You've shot yourself in the foot with this one.

Easy2007

01-30-08, 04:08

Not quite so OTH.

The majority of people think this, but are afraid to say it cause the loud mouthed liberals will hound them for it.

I freely say it, thats why I live in Asia, where these principles are allowed to happen, and why I do not live in the West, where the liberals are allowing society to go down the toilet very very fast.

And there was you saying "no change" in Thailand, looks to me like some of your untouchables are starting to get nervous. Is their power going to be taken away from them, in the years ahead.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/30Jan2008_news01.php

WOW! This post speaks for itself.

There's simply no point in countering what is a glaring display of ultra-right-wing, thug-like thinking.

You've shot yourself in the foot with this one.

Easy2007

01-30-08, 04:57

OTH, as you have a very "simpleton" view of politics.

Please ask your students to consider the following :

In the USA, millions and millions of dollars are being spent to try to win the election.

Winning the election gives you access to a job that pays 400K a year.

Why then, are people spending multi-millions to try to get elected to a 400K a year job?

Is it because, in the USA, you can make millions of profits from having influence over the person being in that position ? You have to get your money back don't you ? Who is going to spend money to simply lose it?

So ask your Thai students, is there serious corruption in the USA?

Love Sex 22

01-30-08, 09:09

Oth. WRONG.

.

Thailand needs Thaksin back in power, we need more "wars on drugs", we need more of the scum of Thailand wiped out with a nice bullet in the head.

Why OLT are you safe to walk around Bangkok at night, without much fear of being mugged or beaten up? Its cause the police will kick the f'k out of criminals, and often stick a bullet in their head. No courts, no judges, wipe the shit out the simple way, bullet in the head, no questions asked.

Now if the police in NYC or London could do that, well, violent crime would greatly reduce would it not, and a lot of the scum who "live" on tax payers money in nice comfy prisons cause liberals like you want them to feel "nice and comfy" in that cell. Well, they would be dead, and the tax payers money could be used on much more important things than keeping scum in comfort in prison.

Have a nice evening :)

Thaksin was the biggest drug dealer in Thailand and had the monopoly on the market . When to many small guys start dealing and hurting his business he decided to whack them . Any self maid Billionaire in the world made his money not by being nice guy . They have to be ruthless and step on everyone on there way to get to that position .
So you think that its ok that any policeman who decide that you are a criminal he can put a bullet in your head . How about if he puts a bullet in the head of your 17 year old son and claims that he is a criminal . That's a great justice and perfect solution . Its remind me of Hitler final solution .

Easy2007

01-30-08, 14:09

Thaksin was not involved in drugs in any way, no idea where you get that from, perhaps its OTH trying to generate some fantasy stories.

Thaksin may have been corrupt in the telecoms arena, he may have had a monopoly on telecoms and satellites which he used with his mates to generate massive amounts of money, but drugs. Give it a break.

Thaksin was the biggest drug dealer in Thailand and had the monopoly on the market . When to many small guys start dealing and hurting his business he decided to whack them . Any self maid Billionaire in the world made his money not by being nice guy . They have to be ruthless and step on everyone on there way to get to that position.

So you think that its ok that any policeman who decide that you are a criminal he can put a bullet in your head . How about if he puts a bullet in the head of your 17 year old son and claims that he is a criminal . That's a great justice and perfect solution . Its remind me of Hitler final solution .

Love Sex 22

01-31-08, 03:29

Thaksin was not involved in drugs in any way, no idea where you get that from, perhaps its OTH trying to generate some fantasy stories.

Thaksin may have been corrupt in the telecoms arena, he may have had a monopoly on telecoms and satellites which he used with his mates to generate massive amounts of money, but drugs. Give it a break.

Thaksin Born into a wealth merchant family, he went into the Thai police service in 1973 and continued his criminal-justice education in the United States. He rose to the rank of police lieutenant colonel by 1987. Every one knows that if you looking for the best quality drugs you have to buy it from the police . Thaksin entered the police force to make money not because he needed cop salary . He came from a very wealthy and prominent family . He left to USA for his education . And making all his Drug contract with the drug dealers in America and build an infrastructure of smuggling tons of illegal drugs to America for many years to come . When smaller dealer got in his way he decided to kill them all so no one else will follow suite. And don't think that you cant buy drugs in Thailand now , Its available every where but its not as cheap as used to be , The police want to keep the prices high as OPEK keeps the price of oil high. .And that's the way the gentlemen build up his initial fortune .

Easy2007

01-31-08, 04:37

Well, you must really be on the drugs yourself I think, thats a real great fantasy story your trying to promote there, sadly, not a shred of truth in the drug allegations.

As with most countries in Asia, the police are not the ones who smuggle it and distribute it, the common theme is of course those that control the borders, and whose convoys of vehicles cannot be stopped by the police. You guessed it, the military.

China is the worst offender in this, the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army) is one the most active in its network of smuggling drugs from Burma across southern and central China to outlets that feed the Western USA.

Anyway, let me let you get back to your fantasy world of Thaksin and drugs. LOL

Thaksin Born into a wealth merchant family, he went into the Thai police service in 1973 and continued his criminal-justice education in the United States. He rose to the rank of police lieutenant colonel by 1987. Every one knows that if you looking for the best quality drugs you have to buy it from the police . Thaksin entered the police force to make money not because he needed cop salary . He came from a very wealthy and prominent family . He left to USA for his education . And making all his Drug contract with the drug dealers in America and build an infrastructure of smuggling tons of illegal drugs to America for many years to come . When smaller dealer got in his way he decided to kill them all so no one else will follow suite. And don't think that you cant buy drugs in Thailand now , Its available every where but its not as cheap as used to be , The police want to keep the prices high as OPEK keeps the price of oil high. .And that's the way the gentlemen build up his initial fortune .

Love Sex 22

01-31-08, 05:26

Well, you must really be on the drugs yourself I think, thats a real great fantasy story your trying to promote there, sadly, not a shred of truth in the drug allegations.

As with most countries in Asia, the police are not the ones who smuggle it and distribute it, the common theme is of course those that control the borders, and whose convoys of vehicles cannot be stopped by the police. You guessed it, the military.

China is the worst offender in this, the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army) is one the most active in its network of smuggling drugs from Burma across southern and central China to outlets that feed the Western USA.

Anyway, let me let you get back to your fantasy world of Thaksin and drugs. LOL
The military and the police enforcing the borders of the country . The police is more directly involved with the drug seen . Because they are also involved with the gangs who run the drugs from production to distribution. You should see the movie American Gangsters. Will give you some idea of what I am talking about .
And why you so in love with Thaksin .What he ever done for all the poor families who leave in Thailand . Except helping himself and his companies to get bigger and bigger . like many other corrupt officials that run Thailand . Most of all the police department , from the traffic cop to the head of the police dept.

Jungle Bluebird

01-31-08, 05:52

Easy

You seem to struggle with the bigger realities. You, we..most of us are just sheep in a much bigger game. There is no true democracy in this world. Neither in the US or anywhere else. Bush or Thaksin or whoever is a pawn of the super rich. OTH made a good comparison to the Sopranos in one of his posts.

In business and politics its all about packaging realities for easy consumption to meet long term deliverables - i.e. high ROI.

The soap you use has been tested on animals, the toilet paper you use comes from trees, the clothes you buy have been produced with child labor. The Iraq war has cost so far 400 billion USD. The pharmaceutical industries are the biggest drug dealers, but under a legal blanket. We are all dirty!

Thaksin is a politician and such he projects realities. You may forgive the average joe for not understanding such realities, but one cannot forgive Thaksin, Bush or whoever for misleading people to enrich the few. In fact CEO's go to jail for that.

His anti drug campaign was not meant to save the children of Thailand, it was meant as a decoy or call it a white label campaign. In fact what he did - in his typical fashion - was to act outside the law. The very law he has sworn to protect and serve.

JB

Well, you must really be on the drugs yourself I think, thats a real great fantasy story your trying to promote there, sadly, not a shred of truth in the drug allegations.

As with most countries in Asia, the police are not the ones who smuggle it and distribute it, the common theme is of course those that control the borders, and whose convoys of vehicles cannot be stopped by the police. You guessed it, the military.

China is the worst offender in this, the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army) is one the most active in its network of smuggling drugs from Burma across southern and central China to outlets that feed the Western USA.

Anyway, let me let you get back to your fantasy world of Thaksin and drugs. LOL

Forcejam

01-31-08, 06:42

I think the King of Thailand should take over the country military and bring it back on track. He seems to be a nice old man.

Old Thai Hand

01-31-08, 11:17

Easy

You seem to struggle with the bigger realities. You, we..most of us are just sheep in a much bigger game. There is no true democracy in this world. Neither in the US or anywhere else. Bush or Thaksin or whoever is a pawn of the super rich. OTH made a good comparison to the Sopranos in one of his posts.

In business and politics its all about packaging realities for easy consumption to meet long term deliverables - i.e. high ROI.

The soap you use has been tested on animals, the toilet paper you use comes from trees, the clothes you buy have been produced with child labor. The Iraq war has cost so far 400 billion USD. The pharmaceutical industries are the biggest drug dealers, but under a legal blanket. We are all dirty!

Thaksin is a politician and such he projects realities. You may forgive the average joe for not understanding such realities, but one cannot forgive Thaksin, Bush or whoever for misleading people to enrich the few. In fact CEO's go to jail for that.

His anti drug campaign was not meant to save the children of Thailand, it was meant as a decoy or call it a white label campaign. In fact what he did - in his typical fashion - was to act outside the law. The very law he has sworn to protect and serve.

JB

Guys like Easy, living as they do in their little fantasy life - Isaan wife, clucking chickens, languid water buffalo, delapidated hovel, extended family, and drunken male family members - think that all is good because things have returned to normal: i.e. Taksin and soon Samak and the PPP tossing a few baht at the yokels so they can blow it on a new motorcycle, that they'll crash at the first opportunity or so they can get pro-active by starting a business of selling their Gawd-awful, hand-made OTOP crafts.

It is shrewd politics, no doubt about it: a few crumbs for the yobs, and 30 baht sub-standard health-care at a flea-bitten upcountry hospital delivered by docs who were at the bottom of their class and can't work anywhere else - and Taksin and his puppets are heroes of the poor.

All the while, like the true elites that they actually are (afterall, we've just substitituted one set of old guard for another) they will act in self-interest, enrich themselves, dodge paying taxes, increase corruption and break the law, while they over-tax the middle-class (and me) who are the ones who really pay the hand-outs to the great unwashed and generally support this country financially.

We have a new PM who is a convicted fellon and an ex-PM charged with multiple crimes and both will come out of this on top.

Is it any wonder that the middle class finally rose up last time and tried to drive Taksin out, leading to the coup?

Now, it's like he was never away.

Easy2007

01-31-08, 14:37

You have made quite a few accusations there OTH. Can you please back this up with proof.

If you do so fail to back up your lurid accusations below, then please write on here a written apology for making such unfounded and baseless accusations.

I am waiting for your response.

Guys like Easy, living as they do in their little fantasy life - Isaan wife, clucking chickens, languid water buffalo, delapidated hovel, extended family, and drunken male family members - think that all is good because things have returned to .

Easy2007

01-31-08, 14:48

Jb,

How long have you been in Thailand? And how much have you travelled around and spoken with locals?

One of the major reasons the people in the North and NorthEast like the TRT and Thaksin is that he had that "war on drugs".

These people saw a visible and large reduction in what was becoming rampant pushing.

Its not a singular reason why they like TRT, but it was one of a few main ones.

People who are stupid, incredibily ignorant and living with their heads firmly up their own ass, like OTH, fail to appreciate this. They think that the poorer people in Thailand just vote TRT as they got some money.

This is why the coup failed, and they failed to keep TRT via the PPP coming back.

They all like to make the excuses, dumb poor ass people taking money, but underneath it all that was not the case. As they found out to their loss at the last election.

The people actually really liked the TRT and their policies.

So while OTH goes around telling everyone the Democrats will win and Samak will never be PM. His head being firmly up his ass he has totally misread the situation.

I find it highly amusing as these people who write down TRT and Thaksin, and said they would never come back, now crawl back into their little shells as they have been totally, utterly and completely proven wrong.

Thaksin was no angel, but he was certainly a better devil than the previous lot.

Easy

You seem to struggle with the bigger realities. You, we..most of us are just sheep in a much bigger game. There is no true democracy in this world. Neither in the US or anywhere else. Bush or Thaksin or whoever is a pawn of the super rich. OTH made a good comparison to the Sopranos in one of his posts.

In business and politics its all about packaging realities for easy consumption to meet long term deliverables - i.e. high ROI.

The soap you use has been tested on animals, the toilet paper you use comes from trees, the clothes you buy have been produced with child labor. The Iraq war has cost so far 400 billion USD. The pharmaceutical industries are the biggest drug dealers, but under a legal blanket. We are all dirty!

Thaksin is a politician and such he projects realities. You may forgive the average joe for not understanding such realities, but one cannot forgive Thaksin, Bush or whoever for misleading people to enrich the few. In fact CEO's go to jail for that.

His anti drug campaign was not meant to save the children of Thailand, it was meant as a decoy or call it a white label campaign. In fact what he did - in his typical fashion - was to act outside the law. The very law he has sworn to protect and serve.

JB

LittleBigMan

01-31-08, 21:37

Fellas,

Let LBM, put in his 2 cents. But let me first say I'm not a conservative but like to think that I'm middle of the road and get the Big Picture of what is really going on.

I have spent lots of years in China in particular and have friends and family in Hong Kong, China, and here in the USA that know first hand that most politicians particular in Asia have a link into the drug market. This is what got LBM, in trouble in the first place! You might not see them running the show but they are getting something. The mare existence of the Golden Triangle should tell you something. Whatever war on drugs you see or hear it's just for looks! This is the Asian way as I put it! Most people in the US, conservative or liberals will tell you the billions we put into the drug wars is going nowhere!

My years in H.K. and into Cities in China, even 20 years ago I could get anything at anytime. You see China talking about cleaning up the illegal copies of DVD'S for the US, when they visit, when they leave they go back to doing what they were doing. To this day they are still selling Fake products right outside the US Embassy. Now it's about Lead in toys etc... once it got out the Chinese sacrafice one of their own by having him commit suicide but the problem became too big and Lead was in everything. The Chinese have spent billions making these items with Lead. If you believe that these items were destroy think again. The black market has them going to Thailand, Viet Nam and all over South America. Take a lead tester and you will see what I mean. Anyone with a open mind knowing how China business operates knew this was going on! You honestly believe that the leaders in China don't know what was going on. Don't blame the military! Anyone that think the Chinese are going to burn them is just living in a cave! They go somewhere else for the highest bidder because it's all about money!

In Thailand, this is no different, Thaksin, The King, the currrent or future leaders of this country has something to do with drugs even if they turn a blind eye. They wouldn't be alive if they didn't. Look at what is going on in Mexico! anyone writing about the drug lords are dead. They are so afraid to speak out!

Easy2007, you are right and you are wrong. Where you are wrong is that you don't see the big picture. Like conservative in the US, they voted for Bush because he offer everyone a tax break and gave them a $650.00 check and wouldn't raise taxes. I don't like raising taxes myself but when the State and Local governments gets less funds to operated who you think are paying for all the Fee's and Bonds that have come on the Ballots for the last 8 years! These same idiots that voted for Bush and his tax cuts are screaming that they are paying more for Schools, Water, Gas, Fee's for this Fee's for that Bond measure for Roads. In the big picture does getting a refund check for $650.00 make up for the thousand you are paying for services that was once free!

For politician it's all F--King game to them and if you believe that Thaksin have cleans hands when it comes to drugs your living in a dream world. He might be better or worse than some but Telecom wasn't the only thing he did wrong he also took money for the Airport from G.E. for the baggage system. This was the same system that G.E. built in Denver that was abandon a few years ago! When it comes to Politicians their closets are filled with skeletons!

Whether we are conservatives or liberal, we are so hell bent in believing what we want to believe that we lose sight of ball and fail to make compromises for the greater good of everyone!

LBM

Easy2007

01-31-08, 23:51

LBM,

I agree that everyone everywhere has their hands dirty in all this. Including many mongers, as they assist with the money laundering when they change their money around Soi 4 for a better rate ;) LOL

Some people are trying to spin Thaksin as the first corrupt Thai politician in history.

I am simply saying he was not an angel, but also not the devil some are trying to portray him as.

A lot of people in Thailand now have a "bloody nose", they have been proven totally wrong about TRT and Thaksin, all their bullshit for 12 months is now shown as that, all their "I can tell you the Democrats will win, Samak will never be PM, TRT will never come back" - is shown for the rubbish it was, complete twaddle.

Fellas,

Let LBM, put in his 2 cents. But let me first say I'm not a conservative but like to think that I'm middle of the road and get the Big Picture of what is really going on.

I have spent lots of years in China in particular and have friends and family in Hong Kong, China, and here in the USA that know first hand that most politicians particular in Asia have a link into the drug market. This is what got LBM, in trouble in the first place! You might not see them running the show but they are getting something. The mare existence of the Golden Triangle should tell you something. Whatever war on drugs you see or hear it's just for looks! This is the Asian way as I put it! Most people in the US, conservative or liberals will tell you the billions we put into the drug wars is going nowhere!

My years in H.K. and into Cities in China, even 20 years ago I could get anything at anytime. You see China talking about cleaning up the illegal copies of DVD'S for the US, when they visit, when they leave they go back to doing what they were doing. Now it's about Lead in toys etc... once it got out the Chinese sacrafice one of their own by having him commit suicide but the problem became too big and Lead was in everything. The Chinese have spent billions making these items with Lead. If you believe that these items were destroy think again. The black market has them going to Thailand, Viet Nam and all over South America. Take a lead tester and you will see what I mean. Anyone with a open mind knowing how China business operates knew this was going on! You honestly believe that the leaders in China don't know what was going on. Don't blame the military!

In Thailand, this is no different, Thaksin, The King, the currrent or future leaders of this country has something to do with drugs even if they turn a blind eye. They wouldn't be alive if they didn't. Look at what is going on in Mexico! anyone writing about the drug lords are dead. They are so afraid to speak out!

Easy2007, you are right and you are wrong. Where you are wrong is that you don't see the big picture. Like conservative in the US, they voted for Bush because he offer everyone a tax break and gave them a $650.00 check and wouldn't raise taxes. I don't like raising taxes myself but when the State and Local governments gets less funds to operated who you think are paying for all the Fee's and Bonds that have come on the Ballots for the last 8 years! These same idiots that voted for Bush and his tax cuts are screaming that they are paying more for Schools, Water, Gas, Fee's for this Fee's for that Bond measure for Roads. In the big picture does getting a refund check for $650.00 make up for the thousand you are paying for services that was once free!

For politician it's all F--King game to them and if you believe that Thaksin have cleans hands when it comes to drugs your living in a dream world. He might be better or worse than some but Telecom wasn't the only thing he did wrong he also took money for the Airport from G.E. for the baggage system. This was the same system that G.E. built in Denver that was abandon a few years ago! When it comes to Politicians their closets are filled with skeletons!

Whether we are conservatives or liberal, we are so hell bent in believing what we want to believe that we lose sight of ball and fail to make compromises for the greater good of everyone!

LBM

Old Thai Hand

02-01-08, 01:07

you have made quite a few accusations there oth. can you please back this up with proof.

if you do so fail to back up your lurid accusations below, then please write on here a written apology for making such unfounded and baseless accusations.

i am waiting for your response.

you do seem to increasingly be frothing at the mouth in your posts.

appologize for what, may i ask?

it's not an accusation - just an assumption based on your unbridled enthusiastic support for the people of isaan. the way in which you write is similar to so many others who i have read - many of whom often write this way to the bangkok post or the nation. you know the ones - inarticulate, bulls-in-a-chinashop, who hate the thai intelligentisa, and rail against the people of bangkok...the typical farang in isaan - retired, living with their little brown farmgirl and her whole damn family in some backwoods shithole publicly extolling the virtues of these salt-of-the-earth people and their bucolic life, while in reality feeling bitter at having to support their adopted n'er-do-well family, having to watch idiotic thai tv all day because they can't get ubc, and having to eat sticky rice and somtam pra-ra everyday, instead of a good steak.

if i'm wrong, tell us your real situation and how it differs from my scenario. afterwards, explain then why you are so supportive of the heaving masses of isaan and their naiive and ignorant support of people who in reality cyncially throw them crumbs while continuing to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) the country.

maybe up there, swatting flies off the back of your father-in-law's buffalo, you're too far from things to see the big picture.

Easy2007

02-01-08, 04:25

apologise for being a ignorant, arrogant ass, who has blatently made accusations, but now appears to be trying to spin them off as "assumptions".

your desire to look a complete ass seems to be taking over. do you think you are intelligent? i think not based on how you conduct yourself on these boards. you come accross as an uneducated pompus ass, who is very ignorant, very arrogant.

one gets the feeling that perhaps there is nothing more to you than simply someone of the above description, impotent and living in los angeles perhaps, who gets off on reading the isg guides and living in a pretend world.

you ignorance over things thai can easily be seen by your prior posts on the election et al, where you have been of late consistantly incorrect in your "assumptions", wasn't it so.

you made accusations, not assumptions.

if you wish to be able to post that you are making assumptions, then you should add in the wording to that effect, which then makes direct accusations into assumptions.

perhaps you need to go to study to study a little bit more, on how to correctly write what can be classed as assumptions, and what are direct accusations. presently, you appear to not know how to do so.

you do seem to increasingly be frothing at the mouth in your posts.

appologize for what, may i ask?

it's not an accusation - just an assumption based on your unbridled enthusiastic support for the people of isaan. the way in which you write is similar to so many others who i have read - many of whom often write this way to the bangkok post or the nation. you know the ones - inarticulate, bulls-in-a-chinashop, who hate the thai intelligentisa, and rail against the people of bangkok...the typical farang in isaan - retired, living with their little brown farmgirl and her whole damn family in some backwoods shithole publicly extolling the virtues of these salt-of-the-earth people and their bucolic life, while in reality feeling bitter at having to support their adopted n'er-do-well family, having to watch idiotic thai tv all day because they can't get ubc, and having to eat sticky rice and somtam pra-ra everyday, instead of a good steak.

if i'm wrong, tell us your real situation and how it differs from my scenario. afterwards, explain then why you are so supportive of the heaving masses of isaan and their naiive and ignorant support of people who in reality cyncially throw them crumbs while continuing to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) the country.

maybe up there, swatting flies off the back of your father-in-law's buffalo, you're too far from things to see the big picture.

Jungle Bluebird

02-01-08, 05:39

Easy

It's not up to me to educate you about the realities of politics.

I am not sure what is worse though, 'rampant pushing' - as you say - or exposure to the nightly soaps. Both surely aid to living in denial.

JB

Jb,

How long have you been in Thailand? And how much have you travelled around and spoken with locals?

One of the major reasons the people in the North and NorthEast like the TRT and Thaksin is that he had that "war on drugs".

These people saw a visible and large reduction in what was becoming rampant pushing.

Its not a singular reason why they like TRT, but it was one of a few main ones.

People who are stupid, incredibily ignorant and living with their heads firmly up their own ass, like OTH, fail to appreciate this. They think that the poorer people in Thailand just vote TRT as they got some money.

This is why the coup failed, and they failed to keep TRT via the PPP coming back.

They all like to make the excuses, dumb poor ass people taking money, but underneath it all that was not the case. As they found out to their loss at the last election.

The people actually really liked the TRT and their policies.

So while OTH goes around telling everyone the Democrats will win and Samak will never be PM. His head being firmly up his ass he has totally misread the situation.

I find it highly amusing as these people who write down TRT and Thaksin, and said they would never come back, now crawl back into their little shells as they have been totally, utterly and completely proven wrong.

Thaksin was no angel, but he was certainly a better devil than the previous lot.

LittleBigMan

02-01-08, 05:44

Sanook D

02-01-08, 07:30

Good article about the Thai kops below. These are the murderous clowns Easy would trust to conduct the extrajudicial killings judiciously.

http://www.mynews.in/printstory.aspx?story_id=2074
(Excerpt)
THAILAND: Not rogue cops but a rogue system

In recent weeks, a couple of criminal cases involving police officers in Thailand have caught the media headlines there. In the first, three men were found shot dead in Ayutthaya Province, just north of Bangkok, apparently after they had been arrested by the police. . .

In the second, eight Border Patrol Police have been arrested for allegedly abducting and torturing people for ransom and in order to fabricate cases. The police had brought their victims to Bangkok and held them in an apartment there. . .

After hearing this news, other victims also came forward, including a couple being held awaiting trial on drugs charges who also claimed to have been abducted and set up by the unit. According to them, they had seen around twenty people being held in a bungalow in Surat Thani, some of whom had been assaulted and tortured; others were hooded.

These are not "rogue" cops, as described by one Bangkok newspaper. On the contrary, they are an inevitable outcome of a deliberately dysfunctional policing system that has made life a misery and human rights a mockery for countless numbers of people in Thailand over many decades.

The Asian Human Rights Commission has for some years researched and advocated on criminal justice issues in Thailand. . .None of this is anything new. The police force that exists in Thailand today is for all intents and purposes the same one that was built by Pol. Gen. Phao Sriyanond in the 1950s. Phao, a former army general who was one of three powerful figures in the military government that emerged after a coup in 1947, saw control of the police as his personal means to power and fortune.

Under him the police force was increased in size and strength to become a de facto parallel army. It took on paramilitary functions through new special units, including the border police. It ran the drug trade, carried out abductions and killings with impunity, and was used as a political base for Phao and his associates.

. . .And under the government of Thaksin Shinawatra, himself a former police colonel, police were elevated to new levels of authority in all parts of government. Although the subsequent military regime stripped them of these positions, the attempt of its caretaker prime minister to push through a new raft of structural and legal changes to the force was predictably unsuccessful. . .

Deep distrust of popular opinion and public action independent of state directives is what continues to restrain Thailand not only politically but also in terms of prospects for improved human rights and the rule of law. It is what makes the sort of police abuses reported in recent weeks not only likely but certain. It is also certain that if there is going to be lasting systemic change to policing in Thailand it can only be accompanied by dramatic change in other parts of social and political life.

Old Thai Hand

02-01-08, 13:42

Damn OTH, sounds like you were talking about me for a while! except I do get my steak. I usually like my steak well done but do get it raw on Soi 6 from time to time. I better break down and get UBC so I wouldn't be sterotyped.

LBM

I know you're living the good life in Patts, where there's plenty of "steak". No stereotyping necessary.

Old Thai Hand

02-01-08, 13:54

apologise for being a ignorant, arrogant ass, who has blatently made accusations, but now appears to be trying to spin them off as "assumptions".

your desire to look a complete ass seems to be taking over. do you think you are intelligent? i think not based on how you conduct yourself on these boards. you come accross as an uneducated pompus ass, who is very ignorant, very arrogant.

one gets the feeling that perhaps there is nothing more to you than simply someone of the above description, impotent and living in los angeles perhaps, who gets off on reading the isg guides and living in a pretend world.

you ignorance over things thai can easily be seen by your prior posts on the election et al, where you have been of late consistantly incorrect in your "assumptions", wasn't it so.

you made accusations, not assumptions.

if you wish to be able to post that you are making assumptions, then you should add in the wording to that effect, which then makes direct accusations into assumptions.

perhaps you need to go to study to study a little bit more, on how to correctly write what can be classed as assumptions, and what are direct accusations. presently, you appear to not know how to do so.

what did i accuse you of? i merely suggested that you fit a certain type. i don't see this as an accusation. you are quite easy to wind up, aren't you? perhaps i hit a nerve in my description. your rage is so apparent that your above post barely makes sense.

btw, i'm neither in la (where did that come from???), uneducated or ignorant of thai politics, culture or people.

as a matter of fact, i just became a thai civil servant (whoopee!) and because i'm now on the government payroll, my taxes dropped to a mere 1% from 10%. except for the fact that few of your precious isaan compadres actually pay taxes at all, they should be up in arms that the bloated thai civil service gets away without paying hardly any taxes at all and makes all kinds of tea money under the table. compared to what's on the table (and under it) in bangkok, they're destined to always get nothing more than pocket change from their beloved ppp and herr taksin. yet you still think that samak, taksin and the rest are the heroes of the disenfranchised hordes.

how naiively cute! enjoy your somtam and sticky rice.

Easy2007

02-01-08, 14:48

i'm fine oth, however i feel the only way to get through to you as you appear to be a pompous, ignorant, arrogant ass, is by utilising such words. i have found in the past that such people tend not to respond to civilised discussion, so you have to engage them at their level, so i am merely moving down to a level where a pompous, ignorant, arrogant ass would find themselves addicted to replying.

i know how to deal with such "people" like you, and its why, after reading you put down so many posters on isg with the blatent rubbish you spout, you are now showing your true colors to everyone.

your failure to appreciate that the ppp would win, and that samak would be pm simply shows to everyone you are not in touch with thai politics or reality. that was a big glaring mistake you made, and you'll have to try harder in future if you want people to beleive your stories.

enjoy the weekend

what did i accuse you of? i merely suggested that you fit a certain type. i don't see this as an accusation. you are quite easy to wind up, aren't you? perhaps i hit a nerve in my description. your rage is so apparent that your above post barely makes sense.

btw, i'm neither in la (where did that come from???), uneducated or ignorant of thai politics, culture or people.

as a matter of fact, i just became a thai civil servant (whoopee!) and because i'm now on the government payroll, my taxes dropped to a mere 1% from 10%. except for the fact that few of your precious isaan compadres actually pay taxes at all, they should be up in arms that the bloated thai civil service gets away without paying hardly any taxes at all and makes all kinds of tea money under the table. compared to what's on the table (and under it) in bangkok, they're destined to always get nothing more than pocket change from their beloved ppp and herr taksin. yet you still think that samak, taksin and the rest are the heroes of the disenfranchised hordes.

how naiively cute! enjoy your somtam and sticky rice.

Terry Terrier

02-01-08, 22:56

30 baht sub-standard health-care at a flea-bitten upcountry hospital delivered by docs who were at the bottom of their class and can't work anywhere else - and Taksin and his puppets are heroes of the poor.
However you wish to interpret the scheme, Thailand Inc had to start somewhere with accessible healthcare for the masses if it has any aspirations to moving on from Third World (and - more importantly from Thailand Inc's POV - to be perceived by the First World to be moving forward on this issue).

Even sub-standard healthcare is usually better than no affordable healthcare at all.

they over-tax the middle-class (and me) who are the ones who really pay the hand-outs to the great unwashed and generally support this country financially.
Who is really supporting who? By your own admission in previous posts, Bangkok would grind to a halt if the "great unwashed" were taken out of the equation. And we haven't even discussed food supplies from the regions. Seems to be quite a one-sided two-way deal to me.

Old Thai Hand

02-02-08, 02:26

Your failure to appreciate that the PPP would win, and that Samak would be PM simply shows to everyone you are NOT in touch with Thai politics or reality. That was a big glaring mistake you made, and you'll have to try harder in future if you want people to beleive your stories.

Enjoy the weekend

I never thought they wouldn't win. I merely said they shouldn't win. But, in the end it doesn't matter because the people who really control things are still in power way above the likes of Samak, Taksin and their ilk and they don't give a toss about your compadres toiling in the hot sun in Isaan.

BTW, you still haven't refuted my assumptions about you. Therefore, I assume that I was correct about you being one of those Farang, living in retired bliss with his farmgirl and her hillbilly family in the wilds of Isaan. I do wonder, though why you took such exception to this characterization, given your support for the people of the northeast. By considering that I insulted you with my "assumptions", you reveal that you're a fake and consider this lifestyle insulting. What in fact is wrong with being a Farang living with is farmgirl and her hillbilly family, eating somtam all day and watching the rice grow? There are plenty of newly-minted Isaan farmers with western faces hanging out in Khon Kaen, Udon Thani, Nong Khai, Roi-et and Yasothon. One of the great cranks and grumpy old men writing letters to BKK newspapers, John Arnone lives with his little brown wife and half-bread son in lovely Yasothon. He's almost a legend. Maybe, you're him, for all I know.

..."a pompous, ignorant, arrogant ass"?????:D mmmmmmmm, nice that I've managed to acquire a new "fan" here. You're kind of nasty at the name-calling - I'm really hurt. Congrats! You've joined a motley crew of OTH-bashers. Welcome to the club.

Old Thai Hand

02-02-08, 02:41

Even sub-standard healthcare is usually better than no affordable healthcare at all.

I agree with you. But, having had the opportunity to witness first hand the state of this scheme at Chulalongkorn Hospital in Bangkok, I can tell you it's presently something akin to barbers lancing boils during the middle ages. Because there is no money to be made, the doctors refuse to really treat the patient beyond the minimum and therefore largely the service is inadequate. Also, because the government doctors are forced to work in these appalling conditions for such little money, they are running clandestine clinics, using government facilities to sell services to those with money and/or insurance and lining their pockets and the pockets of all those involved (including nurses, ordelies etc.). Here's an example: I need surgery on my knee and was told that there was at least a 10-month waiting list until the doctor and his staff suddenly discovered that I was not some impoverished Farang, but a professor with university health insurance. Suddenly, they went from treating me like scum, to waiting on me hand and foot. My operation has been fast-tracked to a few weeks from now - cash only, upfront, BTW in a sleek new part of the hospital all but closed off from the people who can't pay.

It's hardly fair and far from the universal healthcare one would see in a country like Canada.

So the system is far from the universal healthcare that one would get in Canada. Yes, they have to start somewhere. But, where they've started isn't very impressive.

Who is really supporting who? By your own admission in previous posts, Bangkok would grind to a halt if the "great unwashed" were taken out of the equation. And we haven't even discussed food supplies from the regions. Seems to be quite a one-sided two-way deal to me.

You're correct. I did say that and it's true. BKK's services - public and private - from taxi drivers to maids, and even sushi chefs to concierges are largely people from Isaan. I also did say that if you removed them from the equation, things would grind to a halt in BKK. Also, I agree in part that Isaan is the "bread basket" of the nation, but hardly the only source of the nation's food. They merely provide the main staple, rice.

But, the point I was making is that the lion's share of tax-payers are from the middle-class and therefore they carry the financial burden of the cost of running the government and the country. People in Isaan largely don't pay any taxes because they don't earn the minimum 190,000 baht/year. Yet, they've been allowed to decide the fate of the country, which is quite sad.

Easy2007

02-02-08, 04:44

rubbish. you are totally out of touch with the thai political scene, and have no idea whatsoever.

you really should gain a better understanding of the english language, i have already stated to you, you have made false accusations. you then tried to spin this by saying you made assumptions not accusations.

going back, if you can work it all out in what appears to be a small a limited brain you have, by asking you to back up your accustations with proof, and informing you they are false, you have a definitive answer already.

therefore, as you still have not been able to provide any proof to back up your initial accusations (i am the accused, you are the accuser, you must back up your accusations).

i take exception to any, what appears to be, ignorant, arrogant, pompous ass who, whilst living in a foreign country, then decides he is better than those people, and seeks to ridicule certain sections of the population.

ridicule of certain parts of the population, based purely upon personal opinion, tells everyone more about how incompetent a person you are, and that you indeed resemble an ignorant, arrogant pompus ass.

your dislike of the isaan population can only be put down, in my assumption, to your jealousy of them.

its rather akin to your comments on other threads about "flip flop wearing farangs and their skank p4p girls". it shows to me that you are ultimately severely jealous of their lifestyle and their ability to relax and have fun.

i think they look funny, but at the end of the day i respect them as human beings, and the fact they are on holiday and having fun, and good luck to them. thailand has been raped by the aristocratic-military class for decades, and its why thailand is far behind the likes of malaysia and singapore. the people you attempt to suck up to with your praise and devotion (those above samak and thaksin), are the ones who have left the country in the state its in, raped it of all its wealth, and left prostituion as the only means of earning a living for many.

therefore, i will make the following assumptions, and not accusations, of you:

you must be old. which explains your jealousy of "farangs and young girls"

you are likely impotent to some degree. again the jealousy of others.

you attempt. in vain likely. to portray yourself as someone who is an "old thai hand". but this is undone by the very fact you have no clue whats going on in thailand on the political front.

at some stage you have been ripped off by a few bar girls from isaan (cause your "i am better than everyone" attitude allowed them to get away with it in front of your eyes), which is why you hate all isaan people now.

given the fact you are past being able to pull girls now, you probably are a miserable old twat, living alone, your best friends are teachers, and this limited circle of friends is causing you to become depressed and more jealous of all those farang who have money to burn, can go to thailand on holiday, let their hair down, have fun, and go home again.

i can therefore assume that you do not enjoy life, and seek to try to pass this on to others, and where thats not possible, you despise them and attempt to ridicule them as it makes you feel better.

enjoy the weekend oth!

i never thought they wouldn't win. i merely said they shouldn't win. but, in the end it doesn't matter because the people who really control things are still in power way above the likes of samak, taksin and their ilk and they don't give a toss about your compadres toiling in the hot sun in isaan.

btw, you still haven't refuted my assumptions about you. therefore, i assume that i was correct about you being one of those farang, living in retired bliss with his farmgirl and her hillbilly family in the wilds of isaan. i do wonder, though why you took such exception to this characterization, given your support for the people of the northeast. by considering that i insulted you with my "assumptions", you reveal that you're a fake and consider this lifestyle insulting. what in fact is wrong with being a farang living with is farmgirl and her hillbilly family, eating somtam all day and watching the rice grow? there are plenty of newly-minted isaan farmers with western faces hanging out in khon kaen, udon thani, nong khai, roi-et and yasothon. one of the great cranks and grumpy old men writing letters to bkk newspapers, john arnone lives with his little brown wife and half-bread son in lovely yasothon. he's almost a legend. maybe, you're him, for all i know.

. "a pompous, ignorant, arrogant ass"? : d mmmmmmmm, nice that i've managed to acquire a new "fan" here. you're kind of nasty at the name-calling. i'm really hurt. congrats! you've joined a motley crew of oth-bashers. welcome to the club.

SidTheSexist

02-02-08, 08:23

Therefore, I will make the following assumptions, and not accusations, of you: You must be old. Which explains your jealousy of "farangs and young girls"You are likely impotent to some degree. Again the jealousy of others.You attempt. In vain likely. To portray yourself as someone who is an "Old Thai Hand". But this is undone by the very fact you have no clue whats going on in Thailand on the political front.
At some stage you have been ripped off by a few bar girls from Isaan (cause your "I am better than everyone" attitude allowed them to get away with it in front of your eyes), which is why you hate all Isaan people now.Given the fact you are past being able to pull girls now, you probably are a miserable old twat, living alone, your best friends are teachers, and this limited circle of friends is causing you to become depressed and more jealous of all those farang who have money to burn, can go to Thailand on holiday, let their hair down, have fun, and go home again.I can therefore assume that you do not enjoy life, and seek to try to pass this on to others, and where thats not possible, you despise them and attempt to ridicule them as it makes you feel better.Enjoy the weekend OTH!Class!!! I can feel the fight club coming back to life!!
:D

Opebo

02-02-08, 10:09

While it is certainly true that the poor people in the Northeast and North of Thailand quite genuinely and strongly support TRT/PPP, it is also true that those are dangerous, fascistic parties. The party which would have been the best for we sex tourists would have been the Democrats as they are admirably inactive.

Also, please keep in mind that while none of this will effect the essential power structure of Thailand (which is similar to that of every other country), it will peripherally effect us quite horribly. The rich will continue to live, vampire-like, upon the workers, as they do everywhere. But things like slaughtering drug dealers affects us adversely brothers - drugs are always a major motivation to prostitution. Moralistic 'popular' governments are far more likely to do away with our hobby (just as they have so effectively back in the US) than would ever be a nice dictatorship or junta.

Old Thai Hand

02-02-08, 13:37

Class!!! I can feel the fight club coming back to life!!
:D

Naw, Sid, I'm not going to continue to spar with this geezer. If Easy had really read that many of my posts, he'd know he was way off base in all his assumptions about me - (old, not able to pull girls any more and jealous of those that do - really quite funny, actually). He's just trying to wind me up. But, he's entitled to think what he wants, just as I am. It was a pretty well written, relentless attack - much more lucid than his usual posts.

Although, I'm not quite sure why he's gotten so serious. He does seem quite grumpy. :D

Jungle Bluebird

02-03-08, 11:15

Hmmm... this is a good one..:-)

...Your dislike of the Isaan population can only be put down, in my assumption, to your jealousy of them....

Old Thai Hand

02-03-08, 14:19

Your dislike of the Isaan population can only be put down, in my assumption, to your jealousy of them.

Hmmm... this is a good one..:-)

He's got me dead to rights, man.

So, I'm giving it all up - the high-paying jobs, my condo near SET, my hot, white-skinned 22 y.o. Bangkok GF and getting me one of them thar wooden shacks on stilts and a nice, LBFM farmgirl. Then I just plan to pass my days languishing in the hot Isaan sun, lying on a straw mat under the house, drinking Lao Khao, and eating sticky rice and som tam. Those Isaan people truly have da good life and I'z gonna get me some. Yee Haw!!!

Old Thai Hand

02-03-08, 14:31

I am the accused, you are the accuser, you must back up your accusations

I think you need to check on the meaning of accusation. You're implying that I am saying you are guilty of some wrongdoing, which clearly is not the case.

I merely suggested a scenario involving you which may or may not be true. However, I suspect it is true because you appear so overly sensitive about it. But, I see no reason why you should be ashamed of it, if it is true. It's your choice and more power to you for going native.

Personally, I think Farang who have compromised in a major way to live upcountry, below the poverty line with their farmgirls and adoptive families are just plain nuts. But, to each his own.

But, then again, I suppose I'm just jealous. ;)

Larry Lurker

02-03-08, 18:34

oth---love your oxymorons.

it’s the ivory tower arrogance that annoys folks.

i moved to asia 30 years ago to get away from academic nazis like you. with zero "real world" experience your views on all but uni-girls is quite limited. your own words from the last 10 posts speak volumes.

1. i'm giving it all up. the high-paying jobs, my condo near set, my hot, white-skinned 22 y. o. bangkok gf

---an academic in a high paying job ha ha ha, that's funny. no such thing dude. having to work for a women must be pretty demeaning for you. as for your racism, just because you like white meat doesn’t mean dark meat is worthless bud. variety being the spice of life i keep a stable (issan, central, northern, and the rarer southern girls and rotate them)

2. as a matter of fact, i just became a thai civil servant (whoopee! ) and because i'm now on the government payroll, my taxes dropped to a mere 1% from 10%.

----congratulations on keeping another 100 baht per month.

3. you know the ones. inarticulate, bulls-in-a-chinashop, who hate the thai intelligentisa, and rail against the people of bangkok.

-----thai intelligentsia.-- lol. once again, no such thing dude. i'm sure you fancy yourself as such. anyone thai with a brain leaves to earn more money in the us, europe or japan.

4. guys like easy, living as they do in their little fantasy life

----ohh and you’re not in your little fantasy world? ha! going through the native phase is easy to poke fun at. not so funny when it’s you eh?

5. they are an uninspired, and uninspiring sub-section of the thai population.

-----ahhh. issan bashing. they are the poorest and easiest targets. as a liberal academic elitist, shouldn’t you be defending the poor and downtrodden? too busy with the gullible uni, white skank eh?

6. however, the sheer silliness of "modern" america has made me realize, that as bad as it may be here, it's still preferable to the darkness that currently engulfs the us (and by extension, my home country canada).

-----classic canadian inferiority complex on top of the other issues? while one can get laid in a new york second, thailand has very little else to offer farang. don’t think so? ok drink the tap water---and then call for an ambulance. oh wait, those basics are not available. and with liberals gaining power in the us there will be a lot more unemployed turning tricks. basic economics, along with a weaker dollar, means prices will drop to sub $100 for pretty white trash.

7. you seem to have a lot of self-worth issues and are going out of your way to attack others

-----a great self descriptor.

8. contempt for the "lumpen white trash" is afterall, what i'm known for

-----another great self descriptor.

9. it would be quite interesting to see how many different ways people can call me a "self-conceited", know-it-all, arrogant, condescending, p4p-hating, elitist, classist, snob, s. o. b. hey! wait a minute. i just found a few ways, right there. : d

-----yet, another great self descriptor.

look in the mirror and get a life dude.

stop picking on folks.

nuff said.

Old Thai Hand

02-04-08, 00:34

Easy2007

02-08-08, 03:17

oth, after reading a couple of your posts elsewhere, it does seem my guess was right. you hate isaan people because you got done over by a couple of isaan girls? is that right?

our initial spat i did say that your hate of things isaan can only be due to jealousy of them, or you have (cause you are so ignorant and arrogant and think you are better than anyone else, the ideal target to get done over by a nifty clever little brown girl) got done over by an isaan girl or two.

so after getting done over by the little brown girls you opted for the safest route, find a really grotesque looking girl who would be happy to be the gf of the hunchback, cause she will cause you no harm, no grief, and always be there.

you are now filled with rage and jealousy of the farangs you see around town, with pretty lbfm's on their arm. you hate them, you despise them, cause you cannot do what they do.

i now understand why you are the way you are, why you try to portray yourself as you do, and why, ultimately, i now feel sorry for you, and feel pity for you.

maybe i will invite you to the pegasus club with me sometime for a beer. maybe not.

i think we can deduce you got done over by the posts below :

having played the online game for about 5 years now, i would strongly recommend caution when dealing with any of these girls.

first and foremost, don't ever let them know where your condo is - take them to a hotel, or go to their place. get another phone, separate from your usual phone and use this when communicating with any of them. they may say that they understand that you aren't looking for anything serious. but, trust me, none of them actually buy into this and will get very attached, very fast and will turn psycho, if they think you have someone else.

i've been stalked, threatened with a false pregnancy a few times, threatened with a charge of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and police coming to my condo with the "victim", huge tantrums and crying jags in public, not to mention two incidents of physical assault (not serious, in that neither could punch very hard). but, the punching in one case attracted a group of angry motorcycle taxi guys who just assumed the worst about "the farang" and were ready to beat the crap out of me, until i managed to hop in a taxi and escape.

have fun. but, be careful. .

that should read, " 'better' class of woman that i normally associate with ". :d however, there are some of those online, too. i was just referring to the worst case scenario of my experiences which represents less than 10% of the 70 or so women i have met online. afterall, as i've stated before, i met both my gf and gig online and the two of them are true gems. so, one can meet quality girls online. but, it takes some major searching through the drek to find them. i wasn't looking for a gf. but, i luckily found one by accident.

back in 2003, i started using online websites like asianeuro, thailovelinks, and more recently hotornot, not to mention hi5 and msn personals because it was something different and initially i thought it would be another and certainly easier avenue to pursue, than my usual route. but, most of the girls, while shaggable aren't my personal cup of tea. but, i'm sure they would appeal to many others. while there is a wide variety to choose from, most still seem to come from isaan, especially khon kaen and udon thani (i particularly dislike women from these 2 provinces), and the vast majority do seem quite desperate. also, the quality has dropped considerably in the last couple of years and there are a lot more p4p, or near-p4p now using these sites, under the guise of being "regular" tgs.

i think for someone just coming here on a holiday, it's a good way to go with the advantage of being able to escape after a couple of weeks, without any lingering after-effects. but, for someone living here, it requires considerably more caution and being much more selective.

Thaid Up

02-08-08, 07:37

Quote from Sept 2006 by Old Thai Hand "Thailand and Thai people are not perfect. There are many things here that I find frustrating. It is true that Thais have had a bad education system in the past that promoted rote learning and blind obedience to the teacher and those above them over independent thought. But, that is changing rapidly. However, the previously bad educational system does not mean that Thais lack intelligence or the ability to think for themselves. They are a very creative and intelligent people. Perhaps their thinking processes aren't as aggressive as westerners or even, as T1234 puts it, A-personality types like the Chinese and even Koreans, for that matter. But, your suggestion that they accepted the coup blindly because they lack the intelligence or independent will to fight against it shows a complete lack of understanding of the political turmoil that has wreaked havoc on this country for the last year and the political dictatorship that led to that turmoil. The fact that 86% of the Thais support the coup is because they are looking for a new start and a way out of the mess they've endured under Taksin. They are smart enough to only put up with so much for so long. That will be true with the coup leaders, as well if they don't act quickly to restore democracy."

Well it seems the majority of the Thai's were “smart” enough to vote in a bunch of Thaskin's cronies. The majority of Thai’s prove to be happy with their corrupt politicians. I se one of the first orders of business for the Minister of Foreign Affairs is to push to get Thaskin’s diplomatic passport back.

Now in my opinion, Thanksfornuttin really screwed up by being too greedy. If he would have just paid taxes in the beginning on the AIS sale he would still be in power reaping more rewards.

Even better, if he would have come out and said that technically I do not owe any taxes on the profits, but I will distribute the amount in questions for public works projects for the poor of Thailand he would have been invincible.

Giotto

02-08-08, 07:54

Oth, after reading a couple of your posts elsewhere, it does seem my guess was right. You hate Isaan people because you got done over by a couple of Isaan girls? Is that right?
...It's getting a bit boring now...

Giotto

PinkPearl

02-09-08, 03:14

You are now filled with rage and jealousy of the farangs you see around town, with pretty LBFM's on their arm. You hate them, you despise them, cause you cannot do what they do.OTH likes "pretty {Lady Boy FeMales}"?

From his posts i had the impression he was, allegedly, living with his hot 22 year old student GF.

What do LBFM's do that he cannot do with his GF? Give it to you from the back door?

Daddy07

02-09-08, 09:03

OTH likes "pretty {Lady Boy FeMales}"? ... What do LBFM's do that he cannot do with his GF? Give it to you from the back door?

Pink,

"LBFM's" is short hand for: Little Brown Fucking Machines. You really have to "bone up" on these things, my friend. :D

Regards,
Daddy

Old Thai Hand

02-09-08, 11:03

OTH likes "pretty {Lady Boy FeMales}"?

From his posts i had the impression he was, allegedly, living with his hot 22 year old student GF.

What do LBFM's do that he cannot do with his GF? Give it to you from the back door?

I agree with Daddy07. Before you try to be a clever smart-ass, you'd do well to know what people are talking about. I've seen you misunderstand other common abbreviations before and make stupid remarks.

IMO, LBFM is actually a distasteful, racist epithet and shouldn't be used in this day and age. I regret having used it a couple of times.

Richo Stevens

02-09-08, 16:04

2. as a matter of fact, i just became a thai civil servant (whoopee! ) and because i'm now on the government payroll, my taxes dropped to a mere 1% from 10%.can't find this quote anywhere, but to whomever wrote it, prove it :-) no non-thai can get a thai government job, not even second generation thai.

Old Thai Hand

02-10-08, 03:32

Can't find this quote anywhere, but to whomever wrote it, prove it :-) No non-Thai can get a Thai government job, not even second generation Thai.

I wrote it. A number of my Farang colleagues in more established programs at my university became civil servants, long before I did.

How would you suggest I prove it, except to show my Thai contract, which I'm not about to do? I work for a government university. I was initially what is called a "turn key" employee on a rotating 1 year contract because I was a Farang in a "special program". Our program and I have been rolled into the general curriculum and I just signed the normal 3-year civil service contract that all Thai faculty now sign, am now in the goverment co-op to which non-civil servants cannot belong, and have had my taxes reduced to the level of all civil servants.

I've actually also received a royal decoration in the past. Are you going to tell me that non-Thais can't get those either? BTW, getting a royal decoration is by no means significant in a country where postal workers have more "fruit salad" on their uniforms than General Patton. In my case, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, when I got it - nothing more.

Richo Stevens

02-10-08, 06:05

I wrote it. A number of my Farang colleagues in more established programs at my university became civil servants, long before I did.
Fair enough, but that's as far as it goes. By government position I mean any job within departments or official offices where government and state paperwork are being done, not in educational institutions which really doesn't' affect the state other than passing on the curriculum decided by someone up there ... it's funny to see the contrary when you enter London Heathrow - your a lucky if you see a native Englishmen working in the immigration department :-)

I've actually also received a royal decoration in the past. Are you going to tell me that non-Thais can't get those either? ... In my case, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, when I got it - nothing more.Well, this is what people pay for. (or someone above you did without your knowledge, face, face and bloody more face issues.) Turn on your TV everyday and you see them swarming around and think they are important because they gave the royalties some nice little gift, along with that merely important money cheque a few months before along with their humble request.

I even know of some dodgy business men in Pattaya who has got, so yeah - you feel proud if it makes your day any better.

PinkPearl

02-10-08, 08:32

Pink,

"LBFM's" is short hand for: Little Brown Fucking Machines. You really have to "bone up" on these things, my friend. :D

Regards,

DaddyWhat can i say. Guilty as charged. And too lazy to go to Abbreviations.

Besides, Giotto was bored.

PinkPearl

02-10-08, 09:19

I wrote it. A number of my Farang colleagues in more established programs at my university became civil servants, long before I did. Can you prove it?

I guess most not just visiting a university for eye candy watching are beyond 17. Something to do when not posting on the internet, and a place to find a book or two about Thai culture?

I was a Farang in a "special program". The special olympics?

That would explain being online 24/7, eh.

Our program and I have been rolled into the general curriculum and I just signed the normal 3-year civil service contract that all Thai faculty now sign, am now in the goverment co-op Co-Op? So you can get your daily Som Tums for only 10 Baht instead of 11, but you have to cook it yourself?

I've actually also received a royal decoration in the past. In grade 3 I recieved a gold badge for athletic abilities in association with the commemoration of Canada's 100th birthday. BTW Canada also has a Queen, Elizabeth II.

In my case, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, when I got it. Nothing more.As usual in class, with the nob polisher under your desk.

"Faster, sweetie, for an A+"

Since the 17 year old Hi-so also happened to be daughter to the PM, you got your badge thrown in on the deal.

Old Thai Hand

02-11-08, 08:54

Old Thai Hand

02-11-08, 09:14

Fair enough, but that's as far as it goes. By government position I mean any job within departments or official offices where government and state paperwork are being done, not in educational institutions which really doesn't' affect the state other than passing on the curriculum decided by someone up there.

I can understand why you thought the way you did. I was surprised when they told me I would be a civil servant. But, this is the Thais telling me. I'm not inventing this.

Since I am the program coordinator, I decide curriculum content. It's not decided by anyone above me. The Ministry of Education only dictates at the elementary and high school level. It does not decide anything about what universities teach. To say that universities don't affect the state is to misunderstand what's going on here. Also, judging by the amount of government (not university) paperwork I have to sign every week, I would say that I unfortunately contribute to the overflow of goverment documents. The top 5 universities, all government universities have a major impact on even the day-to-day operations of the government. Most government policy advisors come from the faculties of these institutions.

re: my royal award
I'm not particularly proud of my royal bauble. Although, at least it's not that run of the mill, if only by virtue of the fact that it came from one of the more obscure members of the royal family and was a "one-off" and will never be given again. But, all sorts of people, of little consequence, as you indicated get awards here, and therefore they end up being meaningless. Taksin's got a slew of them and he's one of the biggest scumbags in Thai history.

PinkPearl

02-13-08, 11:00

PinkPearl

Your silly post prompts the question: why do you have to be so vitriolic? What's the point?

Oh and BTW, like your misunderstanding about abbreviations, you also misunderstand what a co-op is.

FYI, it's the government bank and pension fund. Not somewhere to buy somtam. Sorry, but it appears that you missed the point by a wide margin, and by that I am not referring to the spread in this year's Super Bowl {aka real football}. But why is it that I suspect your self-confessed online persona is merely pretending that you are clueless? From watching every episode of 24 and X-Files for the 53rd time? In any case, thanks for the update re some Som Tums for the tummy. In exchange I offer the following point re Thai universities for your perusal with a fig newton, er leaf:

"As with most government institutions, inertia and inefficiency were the norm. Change was slow, and educational quality and research were not priorities. On the other hand, staff were secure, since in Thailand it's almost impossible to sack a civil servant, no matter how incompetent. " {BKK Post, Feb. 10/08, p. 10, Section 1, paragraph 2, "Avoiding Over- Quantification" by Richard Watson Todd}.

Don't you wish OTH had written that, or at least replied to PostBag?

Lover Boy #2

02-27-08, 08:27

Any thoughts??

27 February 2008....breaking news.......

(BangkokPost.com) - Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee doesn't believe Mr Thaksin Shinawatra's expected return tomorrow will have any political impact.

He said Mr Thaksin's return would be "a good thing, it will allow him to fight corruption charges against him under Thailand's democratic system."

Mr Surapong also cast doubt on reports that Mr Thaksin's presence in Thailand would have political repercussions.

"It is normal for people to have a difference in opinion, but it is vital that we all unite for the sake of he country. We all need to focus on national reconciliation and should avoid acting with prejudice," he warned.

President of the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET), Patreeya Benjapolchai, also warned the public to refrain from causing a disturbance once Mr Thaksin returns to avoid damaging investors' confidence.

Jungle Bluebird

02-27-08, 12:45

Yes, 100% Banana Republic.

JB

Any thoughts??

27 February 2008....breaking news.......

(BangkokPost.com) - Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee doesn't believe Mr Thaksin Shinawatra's expected return tomorrow will have any political impact.

He said Mr Thaksin's return would be "a good thing, it will allow him to fight corruption charges against him under Thailand's democratic system."

Mr Surapong also cast doubt on reports that Mr Thaksin's presence in Thailand would have political repercussions.

"It is normal for people to have a difference in opinion, but it is vital that we all unite for the sake of he country. We all need to focus on national reconciliation and should avoid acting with prejudice," he warned.

President of the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET), Patreeya Benjapolchai, also warned the public to refrain from causing a disturbance once Mr Thaksin returns to avoid damaging investors' confidence.

Sanook D

02-28-08, 05:19

Mr Surapong: "It is normal for people to have a difference in opinion, but it is vital that we all unite for the sake of he country.

While I realize this is of course an innocent typo made in reproducing Kh. Surapong's quote, I couldn't help thinking that with the typo it probably more accurately reflects the PPP's true thoughts on the subject of Square Face's return (naturally I am allowing for that special Thai form of English pidgin we resident farangs know and love, so recently exemplified by Kh. Samak's eloquence on CNN and Al-J). Yes, Kh. Meow is back and it is He country again, at least until He sells it.

I was disappointed to find out this isn't true http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=437 or maybe he just shaved it off at the last minute.

"100% Banana Republic" is pretty accurate as well, but my choice may be more appropriate because it combines the fruitiness of corruption, sham democracy, and the threat of state violence with the cloying sweetness of a country that appears to be run by teenagers fluctuating between sugar highs and crashes.

Jungle Bluebird

02-28-08, 12:29

Old movie with and by Woody Allen, named 'Bananas' (I think).

As far as I can recall Woddy (accidentally) leads a revolution in some South American country - hence Bananas as in main export. One of his first decrees is that with immediate effect all citizens have to wear all underpants inside out.

I figure this describes best the insanity which has befallen Thailand.

JB

While I realize this is of course an innocent typo made in reproducing Kh. Surapong's quote, I couldn't help thinking that with the typo it probably more accurately reflects the PPP's true thoughts on the subject of Square Face's return (naturally I am allowing for that special Thai form of English pidgin we resident farangs know and love, so recently exemplified by Kh. Samak's eloquence on CNN and Al-J). Yes, Kh. Meow is back and it is He country again, at least until He sells it.

I was disappointed to find out this isn't true http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=437 or maybe he just shaved it off at the last minute.

"100% Banana Republic" is pretty accurate as well, but my choice may be more appropriate because it combines the fruitiness of corruption, sham democracy, and the threat of state violence with the cloying sweetness of a country that appears to be run by teenagers fluctuating between sugar highs and crashes.

Old Thai Hand

02-29-08, 09:20

"100% Banana Republic" is pretty accurate as well, but my choice may be more appropriate because it combines the fruitiness of corruption, sham democracy, and the threat of state violence with the cloying sweetness of a country that appears to be run by teenagers fluctuating between sugar highs and crashes.

EXCELLENT! I especially like and agree so much with the last bit about "teenagers". It would be funny (well I guess it is, anyway) if it weren't so true.

Sanook D

03-01-08, 02:07

Old movie with and by Woody Allen, named 'Bananas' (I think).JB

Definitely. Recall the opening scene? It would have been great to have had Howard Cosell calling the triumphant return of Sponge Meow to Thailand a couple of days ago.

When he bent down to kiss his beloved airport, did he actually put his hand between the tarmac and his lips? It kinda looked that way.

1Ball

03-01-08, 02:14

Definitely. Recall the opening scene? It would have been great to have had Howard Cosell calling the triumphant return of Sponge Meow to Thailand a couple of days ago.

When he bent down to kiss his beloved airport, did he actually put his hand between the tarmac and his lips? It kinda looked that way.
HAHAHA, I noticed that too.
Doesn't want to actually rub his lips on the ground, but he wants it to look good.
He should be in politics. !!!!

Eeeeeerrrrhhhh.

Opebo

06-22-08, 08:38

No effect at all.

The Democrats have now lost 4 elections in a row, and simply do not like it. They therefore, along with their "high level sponsers" want another election to see if they can be "5th time lucky" and win.

Therefore, a bunch of inbreds called the PAD are acting illegally in blocking public access to roads. They are breaking many laws, but they want to incite violence, so the police are giving them the softly softly treatment.

The inbreds are hoping for another coup, trying to push to allow the military a reason to have coup, however the military will not want one, as it makes them look bad to have too many too often, and also they got spanked in the referendum and also the later election.

So, whilst its hilarious to watch the inbreds have their protest and see how Samak plays with them, do not worry, the mongering goes on, and all is well.

While I wouldn't dream of disputing your presentation of the facts (I defer to your no doubt greater local involvement), I have to question your tone, which suggests sympathy for the anti-foriegner party. I assume you are not Thai, so why are you sympathetic to the more xenophobic option? The results in terms of visa difficulties and interference with the-reason-we're-all-here (prostitution) are plain to see. So, why?

Old Thai Hand

06-22-08, 12:41

no effect at all.

the democrats have now lost 4 elections in a row, and simply do not like it. they therefore, along with their "high level sponsers" want another election to see if they can be "5th time lucky" and win.

therefore, a bunch of inbreds called the pad are acting illegally in blocking public access to roads. they are breaking many laws, but they want to incite violence, so the police are giving them the softly softly treatment.

the inbreds are hoping for another coup, trying to push to allow the military a reason to have coup, however the military will not want one, as it makes them look bad to have too many too often, and also they got spanked in the referendum and also the later election.

so, whilst its hilarious to watch the inbreds have their protest and see how samak plays with them, do not worry, the mongering goes on, and all is well.

while i don't totally like them, i'd hardly call pad "inbreds". nor, do i think that they all support the democrats. what they want is a fair and transparent election, for a change. if anything, samak and his motley crew of thugs are probably much closer to being inbred - afterall, the government is made up of the same self-serving, over-the-hill geezers that have polluted the political landscape for longer than i've been here. they keep shuffling the deck, but it's all the same people who are 100% responsible for the current mess in this country. gen.chaowalit, who is partially responsible for the economic melt-down in 97 is still wielding power and let's not forget chalerm yoobamrung and his mentally deranged sons, one of whom murdered a cop in cold blood in front of dozens of witnesses and yet somehow managed to go free. for gawd's sake, samak alone has been bumbling through things since the 70s. he supported the murder of students by the army in 76, fucked up bangkok when he was governor and now he's doing the same to the country. certainly, a stellar selection of role models for today's youth.

also, samak's hardly playing them. he's probably going to get turfed out (if there's any justice in the world). the sad thing is, he'll be replaced by some other boob from the same lot of scumbags.

the only problem with the democrats is that they are run by a decent, but far too soft leader, who needs to get a backbone. the last time there was a democratic pm, chuan leekpai, the country was in far better shape than it is now. there was certainly far less corruption in government, than there is now.

and lest you think that this lot don't have any impact on farang, it was taksin and his cronies who instituted all the draconian visa restrictions and doubled the fees, and instituted the moral crusade with early closing of the bars, police raids and [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) tests. it's now taksin who's pulling all the strings behind the scenes. the ppp in power is bad for foreigners, in a variety of ways, from just trying to stay here to things like business and investment.

your grasp of thai politics is a little 1-dimensional to say the least. but, then again i know you are pro-taksin (samak) because of your mistaken belief that the crumbs and 100 baht notes he threw the easily impressed, easily bought people upcountry actualy improved their lives. it's already been revealed for instance, that the 30 baht health scheme is on the verge of ruining medical care in this country. otop created a glut of second-rate, badly made junk that no-one wants and which are an embarrassment in a culture noted in the past for quality indigenous products. village funds mostly bought village headmen and did little for the people on the ground.

in the meantime, taksin enriched himself through corruption and shady dealings. if samak stays in power, all of that will be whitewashed and taksin will come roaring back. to see the true colours of the man, one only needs look at the fiascal he's made of his tenure as owner of man city fc...disaster after disaster after diaster.

i don't know if there's a solution to all of this. but, samak remaining as pm is going to destroy the country.

since we've gone at it before over similar territory, i'm not going to comment further, as i'm not interested in getting into a pissing match over this.

Old Thai Hand

07-31-08, 07:39

From The Nation

Court sentences Pojaman to three years in jail
Court said Pojaman should have served as society's good example

The Criminal Court on Thursday found wife of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, guilty of intentionally avoiding tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares worth Bt738 million.

Found guilty in the same charges were her adopted brother; Bannaphot Damapong and her secretary Pennapa Honghern.

The Court sentenced Khunying Pojaman, Bannaphot to a total of three years in jail; two years for the charges relating to the conspiracy to evade tax and one year for giving falsified statements. Pennapa faces two years in jail.

The Court said the three defendants had committed serious crimes and filed false statements with the government agencies in order to avoid paying taxes. They intended paying taxes despite that they were rich people.

The court ruled that the prosecution's evidence was solid and indisputable. The three suspects were found guilty of fraud or collaboration to evade taxes.

In addition, Pojaman and Bannapot were also found guilty of filing false claims and presenting false evidence to the authorities with intention to avoid paying taxes.

The court also reprimanded Pojaman in particular, saying that with her high economic, social and political status - especially her status as wife of the then county leader - she should have acted as good example to society.

The Criminal Court rules out every defence argument on the tax evasion case as insubstantial in rebutting the prosecution evidence.

The court says the prosecution has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the defendants committed a conspiracy to evade tax. The ruling says Pojaman and Bhanapot made the shares transfer in the stock market in order to avoid tax liabilities even though there was no real transaction.

Bhanapot admits Pojaman gave shares to him and the court finds this is not a family gift.

The ruling is addressing a key legal issue whether the three defendants intentionally gave falsified statements to the authorities in order to avoid tax liabilities.

The charges were from from transaction, which took place in November 1997, come under the criminal codes of Article 37 (1) (2) of the Revenue Code. Violation of this law is punishable with a fine of between Bt2,000 and Bt200,000 and a jail sentence of between three months and seven years. A multiple violation of this law will result in a jail sentence of not more than 20 years.

The Office of the Attorney General filed the suit on March 26 last year, summoning more than 30 prosecution witnesses to testify including Sak Korsaengruang, spokesman of the nowdefunct Assets Examination Committee who chaired the AEC panel that probed the accusation of tax evasion, and former Finance Ministry permanent secretary and former directorgeneral of the Revenue Department Suparat Kawutkul.

The three defendants denied the charges and almost 20 defence witnesses testified in the case.

Old Thai Hand

08-01-08, 11:24

An inside source has told me that there's been a deal struck with Taksin to avoid the national and personal embarassment, a conviction and prison sentence, to match the one handed down to his wife would cause.

He's off to the olympics with the fam and has been told that he, old Poj and his brats will be off the hook if they just don't ever come back. The recent purchase of a house in HK may indicate that this deal has been in the offing for awhile.

Either way, hopes of his come-back are all but gone and as a result, the PPP are not long for this world.

Another coup? Election? PAD popular uprising and civil war? who knows?

Easy2007

08-02-08, 10:13

Lol. An insider? Like a teacher?

The game is only be played out. In order to keep the violent and loud inbreds happy, a guilty verdict must be given. They can no longer argue against that person once convicted and sentanced.

Of course, there is a power in Thailand which has ultimate rule, and can pardon any guilty person.

Now, would the inbreds argue with that authority if a pardon were given in 6 months or a year? Of course they cannot, or they will be locked away themselves.

So, rather than seeing just what is on your nose, try focusing into the distance a little. And see what is really going on.

Talking of that authority which has ultimate rule in Thailand, have you noticed one prominent member is presently not in public sight? Your insider should know. LOL

An inside source has told me that there's been a deal struck with Taksin to avoid the national and personal embarassment, a conviction and prison sentence, to match the one handed down to his wife would cause.

He's off to the olympics with the fam and has been told that he, old Poj and his brats will be off the hook if they just don't ever come back. The recent purchase of a house in HK may indicate that this deal has been in the offing for awhile.

Either way, hopes of his come-back are all but gone and as a result, the PPP are not long for this world.

Another coup? Election? PAD popular uprising and civil war? who knows?

Old Thai Hand

08-02-08, 18:05

Lol. An insider? Like a teacher?

The game is only be played out. In order to keep the violent and loud inbreds happy, a guilty verdict must be given. They can no longer argue against that person once convicted and sentanced.

Of course, there is a power in Thailand which has ultimate rule, and can pardon any guilty person.

Now, would the inbreds argue with that authority if a pardon were given in 6 months or a year? Of course they cannot, or they will be locked away themselves.

So, rather than seeing just what is on your nose, try focusing into the distance a little. And see what is really going on.

Talking of that authority which has ultimate rule in Thailand, have you noticed one prominent member is presently not in public sight? Your insider should know. LOL

The king hates Taksin and his scum and therefore will not pardon his wife or Mr. T if he's foolish enough to stick around and face the music.

In fact old Poj should lose her khunying status, given her conviction.

BTW, I know and/or work with lots of prominent people, including several connected to law enforcement, the judiciary and the military.

Also, I don't think calling people 'inbreds' exactly puts your intelligence in the best light.

Giotto

08-02-08, 18:33

...
So, rather than seeing just what is on your nose, try focusing into the distance a little. And see what is really going on.
...
Oh, yes,

I would like to know what is "really" going on. Please, tell me, please, I am just a stupid farang living in Thailand.

Giotto

Retired Army

08-02-08, 20:58

Oh, yes,

I would like to know what is "really" going on. Please, tell me, please, I am just a stupid farang living in Thailand.

Giotto

aren't we all?

Easy2007

08-03-08, 04:14

The king hates Taksin and his scum and therefore will not pardon his wife or Mr. T if he's foolish enough to stick around and face the music.

In fact old Poj should lose her khunying status, given her conviction.

BTW, I know and/or work with lots of prominent people, including several connected to law enforcement, the judiciary and the military.

Also, I don't think calling people 'inbreds' exactly puts your intelligence in the best light.Yes, like you said that the PPP would not win the election, like you said Samak would never be PM, like you said the next PM would be Abhisit.

You have made so many wrong calls OTH, and myself correct ones - that its fair to call into question your "insiders".

Easy2007

08-03-08, 04:15

Oh, yes,

I would like to know what is "really" going on. Please, tell me, please, I am just a stupid farang living in Thailand.

GiottoI certainly would not call you stupid, you have utilised the ISG forums to generate lots of clientèle who stay at your place, drink and eat your food and pay through the nose for the sports lounge girls bar fines etc.

Stupid you are not Giotto, however whether you have a head for business or not does not mean that you know the inside track on Thai politics.

Old Thai Hand

08-03-08, 07:30

Yes, like you said that the PPP would not win the election, like you said Samak would never be PM, like you said the next PM would be Abhisit.

You have made so many wrong calls OTH, and myself correct ones - that its fair to call into question your "insiders".

I would say that I never thought Samak would not win, I was just praying that he wouldn't and that Abhisit would.

Perhaps, I have been factually wrong, sometimes. But, I've always taken the moral high-ground, as opposed to you. Your continued support for Samak, the PPP and Taksin in the face of the overwhelmingly damning evidence against them seriously calls into question your scruples, not to mention intelligence, and aligns you with those oh-so-easily cowed folks up-country. They can be excused because of their lack of education. which prevents them from making an informed decision, not to mention a cultural agenda that brainwashes them into deference for a man of power simply because he's rich.

So, what's your excuse? Perhaps your nom de plume says as much about your mental capacity, as anything else.

Easy2007

08-03-08, 08:07

The trouble with you OTH is that you can, and do, wipe the floor with the average sex tourist who might pop on to the ISG threads from time to time and try to "show off" how much they know Thailand.

However, up against people of the same or higher intelligence level, who have been in Thailand longer than you, you fall down badly, and this is show by your arrogant postings, and "abusive against other posters" postings.

The fact you so easily resort to name calling, snide remarks ets says a lot about you, but its not what you should be projecting.

Some humility would not go amiss, people might respect you more.

I would say that I never thought Samak would not win, I was just praying that he wouldn't and that Abhisit would.

Perhaps, I have been factually wrong, sometimes. But, I've always taken the moral high-ground, as opposed to you. Your continued support for Samak, the PPP and Taksin in the face of the overwhelmingly damning evidence against them seriously calls into question your scruples, not to mention intelligence, and aligns you with those oh-so-easily cowed folks up-country. They can be excused because of their lack of education. which prevents them from making an informed decision, not to mention a cultural agenda that brainwashes them into deference for a man of power simply because he's rich.

So, what's your excuse? Perhaps your nom de plume says as much about your mental capacity, as anything else.

Fon Tok

08-03-08, 09:10

I certainly would not call you stupid, you have utilised the ISG forums to generate lots of clientèle who stay at your place, drink and eat your food and pay through the nose for the sports lounge girls bar fines etc.
Stupid you are not Giotto, however whether you have a head for business or not does not mean that you know the inside track on Thai politics.
I, for one, think Mr. G. is a very smart man. I've witnessed him sumptuously dining with his beautiful lady at his "palace" a number of times and, honestly in my opinion, life does not get much better than that!

I like to stay at LL because it feels like I am a guest at Mr. G's "palace," not a schmuck in some overrated tourist hotel. It's the staff there that make the difference as they are extremely gracious to me as a returning guest. While I don't frequent the Sport Bar for P4P, I have become very good friends with one of their former hostesses. That friendship is worth much more than the reasonable bar fines I initially paid.

Thai politics are fairly simple. Those in power, (and their friends), try to stash away as much baht as they can while they can. Then they fall, gracefully or not. That's no different than most countries (e.g., Bush & Cheney+Exxon/Chevron, Jacques Chirac, Olmert, etc.). Of course having an all powerful king adds another dimension to it all.