View Full Version : Thailand Politics
Pages :
1
2
[
3]
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
What, you haven't got Thai women firgure out yet? Hell it's simple; just give them lost of money and they will act as if they like you. Don't give them money and they will go away and leave you alone. What could be simpler than that?
That's almost right. If they do like you and you don't give them money, they'll cut a little slack and then give you no end of crap. If you have a kid with such a female they'll make your life hell, even though, or rather because, they love you. Or so I've heard.
Of course having an all powerful king adds another dimension to it all.
I will leave Thai political theorizing to those who seem more in the know, but I frankly believe that the King has a lot less power than most seem to imagine. He never held much actual power, but he used to have immense influence. Nowadays, in old age and with changing times, his influence, which has probably been very beneficial to the Thai people on the whole througout his reign, has eroded quite a bit.
I was at the movies today, and after they played the usual Royal anthem with suitably inspiring historic photos of HM at various stages of his long and distinguised reign, I reflected on how much the Thais seem to really need the King. Not just a king, but this particular monarch with his benevolent and on teh whole very effective stabilizing influence.
Why exactly this is so, and whether this is right, is besides the point. The naked truth is that hardly any Thai citizen around remembers any other king on the throne. How the entire Thai people will react when he finally goes is anybody's guess.
There is no doubt that there are very many nasty but powerful people around who might at this very point slowly be moving into position for a wholesale power grab.
As a frequent visitor and a stakeholder in this contry, I have to feel very worried about what the future might have for us ahead.
Old Thai Hand
08-06-08, 10:14
There is no doubt that there are very many nasty but powerful people around who might at this very point slowly be moving into position for a wholesale power grab.
among other's, the son. But, it could all eventually turn into a republic, because I think that all that's left is the cult of personality. The institution itself, and the extended family have lost a lot of respect of the Thais.
As a frequent visitor and a stakeholder in this contry, I have to feel very worried about what the future might have for us ahead.
I'd say things are already quite bleak. Like you, I used to worry a lot about this. Now, I don't care. The Thais will reap what they've sewn.
among other's, the son. But, it could all eventually turn into a republic, because I think that all that's left is the cult of personality. The institution itself, and the extended family have lost a lot of respect of the Thais.
I'd say things are already quite bleak. Like you, I used to worry a lot about this. Now, I don't care. The Thais will reap what they've sewn.
It is true that the cult of personality (which I take to be both a description of the institution and shorthand for the institution itself) is all that remains (and it is obvious whose fault that is), in the sense there is no other party- by which I mean both individual actor and political organization- with sufficient political legitimacy and/or popularity and respect amongst the general public to take the reins when the cult of personality goes the way of all flesh. The only organization with the means to take control and maintain order when that happens is the military, and they will be able to do so only through the threat or application of main force; most people are sick of the generals, too (maybe they are hoping to regain popularity by getting up in big, bad Cambodia's face). There is also the very real possibility of factional conflict breaking out within the military once loyalties inevitably become divided. Throw in the possibility of the very large national paramilitary force, i.e., the cops (including the 40,000 or so paramilitary border police) deciding not to go along with what the Army wants and we could have some lovely fireworks; nothing like South Ossetia, but plenty of shooting, chaos, deaths of unarmed civilians, etc.
The extended family may largely have lost its legitimacy, but it isn't going let go its privileges without a struggle. I think of one slack-jawed dog who is going to insist on having his day (and when he does it may not be quite as much fun being a farang here anymore). There is one figure I can think of, albeit of the wrong gender, who engenders deep and sincere loyalty- I wouldn't rule her out, for there is a first time for everything, especially in an institution that has been making things up as it goes along since the beginning- as all such institutions always have. She is the best hope for all of us, but I don't find that very comforting.
I suspect that what we- all us living here- will be facing in the not too distant future is a vacuum, which nature abhors and politics won't tolerate, followed by an implosion. Whether that is slow or sudden may depend on stage management of the actual precipitating event, in particular how much time the various forces to get themselves aligned (think of the stage management when Hirohito kicked it, or for possibly a better analogy, Franco). If one faction or group is able to maneuver itself into an obviously solid position the violence may be limited, because the only person most people here would be willing to lay down their lives for (other than the person referenced in the preceding paragraph) will be gone; let's face it, physical courage isn't really the locals' forte. It's one thing to shoot demonstrators or suffocate a bunch of boys in a truck trailer, and quite another to deal with people actually shooting back.
Know how to get quickly to your respective embassy compound when it looks like the kii is going to hit the fan is my advice. Or as some representatives of a certain Asian government recommended to me, just don't be here when it happens, and if you are here, stay away from the window when things start booming.
...I think of one slack-jawed dog who is going to insist on having his day (and when he does it may not be quite as much fun being a farang here anymore). There is one figure I can think of, albeit of the wrong gender, who engenders deep and sincere loyalty- I wouldn't rule her out, for there is a first time for everything, especially in an institution that has been making things up as it goes along since the beginning- as all such institutions always have. She is the best hope for all of us, but I don't find that very comforting.
I would like to take the odd-man-out position and interject a note of support for this much maligned gent. It is always easy to be the Alternative, and never easy to be the one-we're-stuck-with. Second sons got all the sympathy in Victorian and Edwardian literature, but spare a thought for the heir apparent - what pressure! What expectation! The successful, revered patriarch!
In fact I think that when it comes to these roles, which are largely symbolic and the point of balance between all the interest groups, anyone will do as long as he can be made to understand the role. I think this fellow understands, though time will tell. There's so much money invested here now the CIA won't let anything get too hot (heck they created the situation way-back-when just so the money could be invested in the first place).
what pressure! What expectation! The successful, revered patriarch!
. . .There's so much money invested here now the CIA won't let anything get too hot (heck they created the situation way-back-when just so the money could be invested in the first place).
It is sweet of you to be sympathetic- sons of famous fathers do tend to have a hard time measuring up. But do you actually know anything about this guy?
The CIA? Given their track record I'd say the confidence is a bit misplaced. As for creating the situation so money could be invested, that's a bit off the mark, unless you are talking about investing money in heroin dealing. As to the amount of dough invested being an incentive to prevent bloodshed, people were confident in 1913 that war in Europe would be impossible because the business interests wouldn't allow. That worked out pretty well, I guess.
Old Thai Hand
08-09-08, 08:44
It is sweet of you to be sympathetic- sons of famous fathers do tend to have a hard time measuring up. But do you actually know anything about this guy?
Well, I don't know about anyone else on here. But, I've actually met "this guy".
I'm with you Sanook. Nice and accurate analysis.
Old Thai Hand
08-09-08, 12:51
Several times, recently my voracity has been called into question.
I realize that this is just a silly little sex board and it's not worth taking seriously.
However, I still feel I want to respond to people like Easy2007 and Washburn who have questioned my connections, my accounts and my opinions of things. When I post things here, I either know them to be factual or at the very least believe them to be likely true, as in the case of rumors that I have been told by people I believe to be in the know.
For example, I did announce the 2006 coup on here a full 30 minutes before the generals went on TV to announce it and almost an hour before CNN. That fact can be confirmed by many on here, like Giotto, who are long-time regulars. How did I know this? Without too many specifics, I know a general who was one of those responsible for the logisitics of the coup and he sent an sms as the tanks were about to roll, suggesting home might be a safe place to be.
Recently, I posted that a contact told me that Taksin had been offered a deal that would allow him to go into exile, in exchange from him staying out of politics and never returning to Thailand.
Easy2007 scoffed at this and derisively asked if my connection was "a teacher". Yet, what do we see now? The newspapers have been filled in recent days of rumors about Taksin going into exile and this alleged deal.
Is it impossible that a Farang could actually have some inside knowledge of what's happening here? I certainly know others that do.
I'm not personally an important person. I'm just a regular smuck, just like anyone else. But, because of jobs I've had, even just as a university professor and the people I've come into contact with (btw, I worked for the Thai Royals, once for example), largely by accident over the last dozen years, I know things and I hear things which because of who's telling me, I believe.
My opinions aren't always popular. But, they're just that, opinions. I'm sometimes wrong about facts I post because even people in the know, don't always get it right. But, generally I'm fortunate to know a few people who are in a position to give me a closer insight into this country which allows me to post, at the very least unique perspectives on things.
I'm not an expert. But, I do sometimes know things that others on here don't.
...(btw, I worked for the Thai Royals, once for example),...
Yes, I remember, ... Royal houseboy to the Prince, I think it was, right? :D
You said the PPP would never win. They did.
You said Thaksin was guilty. So far no convictions.
You said Samak would never be PM. He is.
The "exile" rumour has been going around for ages, ever since Thaksin purchased a house in Hong Kong (and that was a long time ago). Its only getting "revved" up again now as he is in Beijing on a known trip planned well ahead and his wife was recently found guilty, hence the media are having another rollout of the "exile" rumour, maybe one day it will be true.
If you want to claim "inside knowledge" it has to be something that is not already circulating around.
I said in my post a member of the household of people who should not be talked about is presently missing, well, have you found out where HE is, outside of Thailand presently?
Several times, recently my voracity has been called into question.
I realize that this is just a silly little sex board and it's not worth taking seriously.
However, I still feel I want to respond to people like Easy2007 and Washburn who have questioned my connections, my accounts and my opinions of things. When I post things here, I either know them to be factual or at the very least believe them to be likely true, as in the case of rumors that I have been told by people I believe to be in the know.
For example, I did announce the 2006 coup on here a full 30 minutes before the generals went on TV to announce it and almost an hour before CNN. That fact can be confirmed by many on here, like Giotto, who are long-time regulars. How did I know this? Without too many specifics, I know a general who was one of those responsible for the logisitics of the coup and he sent an sms as the tanks were about to roll, suggesting home might be a safe place to be.
Recently, I posted that a contact told me that Taksin had been offered a deal that would allow him to go into exile, in exchange from him staying out of politics and never returning to Thailand. Easy2007 scoffed at this and derisively asked if my connection was "a teacher". Yet, what do we see now? The newspapers have been filled in recent days of rumors about Taksin going into exile and this alleged deal.
Is it impossible that a Farang could actually have some inside knowledge of what's happening here? I certainly know others that do.
I'm not personally an important person. I'm just a regular smuck, just like anyone else. But, because of jobs I've had, even just as a university professor and the people I've come into contact with (btw, I worked for the Thai Royals, once for example), largely by accident over the last dozen years, I know things and I hear things which because of who's telling me, I believe.
My opinions aren't always popular. But, they're just that, opinions. I'm sometimes wrong about facts I post because even people in the know, don't always get it right. But, generally I'm fortunate to know a few people who are in a position to give me a closer insight into this country which allows me to post, at the very least unique perspectives on things.
I'm not an expert. But, I do sometimes know things that others on here don't.
Old Thai Hand
08-09-08, 15:18
Yes, I remember, ... Royal houseboy to the Prince, I think it was, right? :D
:D If that were so, given his attitude towards Farang, I'm sure he would have shouted, like the Queen of Hearts in Alice Through the Looking Glass, "Off with [his] head!".
I think you and I should meet, sometime. I like your sense of humour.
...I think you and I should meet, sometime. I like your sense of humour.
Sure thing. Next time you come to paradise!
You'll recognize me right away. I'm the only farang who looks normal. :)
Ha, I don't doubt your veracity OTH, though some of your postings suggest a lack of vOracity.
SanookD, as for the CIA, I wouldn't underestimate them as they have had a rather ruthless hand in remaking the world as we see it today - in the American capitalist image.
I'm more lurker than contributer to the forums as I'm relatively new to life in Thailand. For what it's worth I read your opinions with interest OTH and did note with how a report very similar to your post re Thaksin was in the Nation a day or so later. Sometimes you seem perceptive ... other times not, but that's just my opinion of the moment.
Right, wrong .. as you say it's a silly little sex board, but it keeps a few of us entertained and interested. and from the outside I appreciate the willingness of the regular posters to have a say as share what they know.
:)
I'm not an expert. But, I do sometimes know things that others on here don't.
Do witches float?
Old Thai Hand
08-09-08, 16:51
Do witches float?
I'm not sure about the question. But, I'll play it straight and say there are lots of witches in Thai culture, like there are ghosts.
But, neither witches or ghost provide me with much insight into what's going on. :)
Old Thai Hand
08-09-08, 17:01
Sure thing. Next time you come to paradise!
You'll recognize me right away. I'm the only farang who looks normal. :)
What? No head-to-toe tattoos, beer-induced palsy, silk Muay Thai boxer shorts, Singha beer muscle shirt and crappy flip-flops, gold Buddha hanging from your neck, a burning fag dangling from your lips, dropping ash down your front, 4-day stubble, un-washed mullet, skin like melted naugahyde, with a tarty, badly dressed, past-her-due-date slapper on your arm?
Ok. I guess I WILL recognize you when I see you, then.
I'm not sure about the question. But, I'll play it straight and say there are lots of witches in Thai culture, like there are ghosts.But, neither witches or ghost provide me with much insight into what's going on. :)
I guess you're not a fan of Monty Python movies. They're a lot like politics in Thailand.
From The Holy Grail: http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-05.htm
LittleBigMan
08-09-08, 23:36
OTH,
Coming to Paradise to see Daddy07, Can you guys wait until I'm back in October?
LBM
Old Thai Hand
08-10-08, 03:23
I guess you're not a fan of Monty Python movies. They're a lot like politics in Thailand.
From The Holy Grail: http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-05.htm
Oh ya. I am a fan. But, it's been awhile since I'd seen that one and I forgot that scene. Funny. :D Yes. very much like Thai politics and so much else here.
NicFrenchy
08-10-08, 04:39
You'll recognize me right away. I'm the only farang who looks normal. :)
That's what they all say LOL
Old Thai Hand
08-10-08, 13:50
I said in my post a member of the household of people who should not be talked about is presently missing, well, have you found out where HE is, outside of Thailand presently?
He's in Germany. It's not exactly a secret. I'm sure he'll be home for Mum's day. ;)
Terry Terrier
08-10-08, 23:32
What? No head-to-toe tattoos, beer-induced palsy, silk Muay Thai boxer shorts, Singha beer muscle shirt and crappy flip-flops, gold Buddha hanging from your neck, a burning fag dangling from your lips, dropping ash down your front, 4-day stubble, un-washed mullet, skin like melted naugahyde, with a tarty, badly dressed, past-her-due-date slapper on your arm?
Ok. I guess I WILL recognize you when I see you, then.
Hey! Don't knock the Singha vests. We recently had a similarly hot day in northern England to the one in Jomtien a few years back that caused me to lash out 70 or 80 baht on one. What a fucking relief from the heat again! I'm still picking dead, burned skin from my upper back, though. I managed to spill some of my lunch down the front of the singlet, too. Perfect!
Old Thai Hand
08-11-08, 00:30
Hey! Don't knock the Singha vests. We recently had a similarly hot day in northern England to the one in Jomtien a few years back that caused me to lash out 70 or 80 baht on one. What a fucking relief from the heat again! I'm still picking dead, burned skin from my upper back, though. I managed to spill some of my lunch down the front of the singlet, too. Perfect!
That's acceptable. ;)
A friend and I have had this game for years regarding penalizing anyone, including expats who wear tourists T-shirts emblazoned with local identification: i.e. those red Ts with the yellow star worn in Vietnam, Angor Wat Ts in Cambodia, Singha Beer, Maps of Thailand, Thai alphabet Ts in Thailand, Ts with the Colosseum in Italy etc. Loser status is gained by wearing them in the country of origin and only slightly less so if worn in ajacent countries, which still implies you're on a tour of the region. If worn in your home country. it makes you look like a cool, sophisticated world traveller. But, if worn in the country or origin, it makes you look like a tourist knob. I'm particularly amused when I see tourists at the airport wearing those conical bamboo hats. Did they look in the mirror before they left the hotel to fly home? One wonders. Of course, when they get off the plain wearing it at home, they will seem exotic. But, here they look silly and pathetic. It's all a matter of proximity.
So, as you worn your Singha singlet, even with food stains, in the UK it imparts your cool worldliness. :)
Old Thai Hand
08-11-08, 00:55
You said Thaksin was guilty. So far no convictions.
So far he and his cow of a wife haven't returned to Thailand, meaning he'll miss his 9 am court date with the judge. MMMMMMMMMMMMM...smells like guilt to me. :)
Terry Terrier
08-11-08, 01:04
So far he and his cow of a wife haven't returned to Thailand, meaning he'll miss his 9 am court date with the judge. MMMMMMMMMMMMM...smells like guilt to me. :)
I heard his brat offspring were crying as the family headed over to airside with their substantial luggage?
Hey! Don't knock the Singha vests. We recently had a similarly hot day in northern England to the one in Jomtien a few years back that caused me to lash out 70 or 80 baht on one. What a fucking relief from the heat again! I'm still picking dead, burned skin from my upper back, though. I managed to spill some of my lunch down the front of the singlet, too. Perfect!
And, I assume you keep your mullet un-washed as well, yes? :)
(wtf is a "mullet"?)
...wtf is a "mullet"?
"a mullet is a hairstyle that is short in the front, top, and sides, but long in the back (also referred to by a number of other names, some regional, including hockey hair, ape drape, ten ninety, millennium mullet, helmet hair, coupe longueuil, haircut o' death, neckwarmer, western suburbs crew cut, shorty longback etc.)"
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mullet_(haircut)
pic: a famous outspoken isg member popular with the royal family modeling his mullet during recent pattaya excursion! lol
"a mullet is a hairstyle that is short in the front, top, and sides, but long in the back (also referred to by a number of other names, some regional, including hockey hair, ape drape, ten ninety, millennium mullet, helmet hair, coupe longueuil, haircut o' death, neckwarmer, western suburbs crew cut, shorty longback etc.)"
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mullet_(haircut)
pic: a famous outspoken isg member popular with the royal family modeling his mullet during recent pattaya excursion! lol
thanks fon tok. i'm still laughing! (i hate those hair cuts)
i'd have never guessed it in a million years.
So far he and his cow of a wife haven't returned to Thailand, meaning he'll miss his 9 am court date with the judge.
MMMMMMMMMMMMM...smells like guilt to me. :)The "gang of four" have turned their back on him and looking to "join with the Democrats" when the PPP is dissolved.
Given the gang of four have now agreed to go for a coalition with the Democrats, do you honestly expect Thaksin to come back to face the biased courts ?
Every single politician in Thailand could likely be found guilty of corruption if they were investigated, thats a sad fact of Thai political life.
What should be a worry now is that the Democrats in order to get into power are willing to go in with the Gang of Four.
I'm particularly amused when I see tourists at the airport wearing those conical bamboo hats. Did they look in the mirror before they left the hotel to fly home? One wonders. Of course, when they get off the plain wearing it at home, they will seem exotic.
I have an image of dumbass Midwesterners (Manitoba or Kansas, take your pick) grazing the plains in conical hats purchased in teh exotic East.
Na, they'll still look dumb, and a fair number of them probably realize it a day or two after returning. I think for a lot of people the real fun in traveling to faraway places begins the suitcase is unpacked after arrival and the folded up undies are replaced with the brain, which remains in the suitacase for the duration. Of course, plenty of expats never seem to get around to unpacking their brains (which over time is forced increasingly to share space with their maturity) either, but then again it occasionally strikes me in my more cynical moments (i.e., most of the time) that most expats in Thailand, even those of us with fancy jobs or who have become immersed in the culture or have families, are really just tourists with jobs anyway. Granted, lots of Thais surely think it cute when we protest, "But this is my home!"
Anyway, as the Japanese like to say, ”A man away from home need feel no shame." (旅の恥を切り捨て。）
By the way, I have a light denim Thai farmer shirt that I like to wear as a jacket when traveling because of all the pockets. If it is sufficiently faded and frayed will I still look like a poseur?
Old Thai Hand
08-11-08, 12:02
By the way, I have a light denim Thai farmer shirt that I like to wear as a jacket when traveling because of all the pockets. If it is sufficiently faded and frayed will I still look like a poseur?
Well Thaksin wore one of those when wooing the masses upcountry and look where it got him.
Old Thai Hand
08-11-08, 12:07
Toxin runs away.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/08/11/politics/politics_30080308.php
The sad fact of life is that Thaksin tried to change things for the better, and got kicked out for it.
You will now see Thailand fall back into its ultra corrupt ways of the past I think. And that is not going to be a good thing.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php? Id=129528
With Thaksin now effectively out of the picture, it remains to be seen if the PAD will stop campaigning for the government's downfall and continue to oppose calls for amendments to the military-sponsored 2007 constitution that aim at strengthening the political party system.
There have been indications that the PAD's goals have shifted from being just anti-Thaksin to being anti-democratic, such as calls for a completely appointed Senate, a move that would benefit Thailand's traditional political elite. The bureaucracy, military and old money.
"The theory that all Thailand's political problems occurred because of Thaksin will soon be proved wrong, " predicted one former member of the Thai Rak Thai. "The real problem of the divide between political parties and the elite hasn't gone way. "
... to face the biased courts ?
...Easy2007,
Biased courts? I was quite was impressed with the performance of the courts in the Thaksin cases ...
Giotto
Toxin runs away.
...Old Thai Hand,
Your sources are obviously not that bad - can you ask them whether Thaksin will now sell his football club or not :) ?
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
08-11-08, 16:02
The "gang of four" have turned their back on him.
Easy. You're such a silly man. :D
Old Thai Hand
08-11-08, 16:04
Old Thai Hand,
Your sources are obviously not that bad - can you ask them whether Thaksin will now sell his football club or not :) ?
Giotto
Why? Are you looking to buy? ;)
Easy. You're such a silly man. :DLOL.
Mao Toxin.
Giotto
Why? Are you looking to buy? ;)Manchester City?
Oh no, for sure not. Just curious!
Giotto
Easy. You're such a silly man. :DLol, no I think you are the very silly one
Such declarations of "PPP will never win". They did. Declarations of "Samak will not be PM". He is.
Pouting a rumour thats been going around for months ever since he first went to London, that we rumoured again after he got the house in Hong Kong, and was flying around even more once his wife was convicted. Is hardly such a lofty claim. It was bound to happen one day.
So if you're sources are so good OTH, whats the next government line up?
I have already said the gang of four (Newin, Samak et al) will attempt to go into a coalition with the Democrats.
Please do. Have your say now oh not very wise one. LOL
Old Thai Hand
08-12-08, 04:52
Lol, no I think you are the very silly one
Such declarations of "PPP will never win". They did. Declarations of "Samak will not be PM". He is.
Pouting a rumour thats been going around for months ever since he first went to London, that we rumoured again after he got the house in Hong Kong, and was flying around even more once his wife was convicted. Is hardly such a lofty claim. It was bound to happen one day.
So if you're sources are so good OTH, whats the next government line up?
I have already said the gang of four (Newin, Samak et al) will attempt to go into a coalition with the Democrats.
Please do. Have your say now oh not very wise one. LOL
As for my opinions about the PPP and Samak...they were just that and I was wrong. So what?.
You keep harping on it. You're so sensitive. You need to lighten up. Nobody on here takes you seriously, anyway.
I doubt anyone has inside information about election results, even in as corrupt a place as Thailand.
I know the rumours have been flying around for ages. That's not what I focused on. I specifically said that I had been told that a deal had been struck to let him, Poj and his motley crew get away, if he'd agree not to return to Thailand, or enter into politics again. Whether he keeps his promise is anyone's guess. I doubt he will. He's not exactly a man who can be believed or trusted.
But, I don't know what's going to happen next. I don't think anyone does.
Terry Terrier
08-16-08, 22:37
Whilst many PLC buyouts are nowadays based on structured borrowing/debt, this one leaves question marks as big as the Hollywood sign. What will happen to the banking execs who flashed the green light on it?:
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/football/article-1043683/Thaksin-forced-borrow-2m-ex-chief-Wardle-just-pay-players.html
www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/14/manchestercity
As everybody most likely saw in CNN already we had some demonstrations today here in Bangkok, initiated and led by the PAD. Demonstration might be an understatement - groups of the PAD entered into and blocked several state agencies and a television / broadcasting station.
Up to now I did not take all that too serious, unlike 2 years ago (when similar demonstrations took place and finally then led to the military coup) this demonstrations are not supported by the masses.
But today I heard something disturbing - obviously there is a stronger fraction in the army, around those remaining (and nowadays of course not very influential) generals that initiated the coup 2 years ago, who support the PAD massively. I heard a strong statement like "the PAD receives orders" from that army group. The actual army chief (also participating in the coup, but now relatively close to the prime minister) seams to lose support in the military.
Even if this info is propaganda - where does it come from? For which party (PPP/PAD) does it make sense?
Anybody?
Giotto
Stiffoak 571
08-30-08, 16:31
Shutting the airports is a very strange move. Gets you noticed I suppose. Perhaps they will shut Swampy next.
Guardian today in the editorial said Samak should either resign or call another election and BBC say he will resign and hint at the King supporting PAD What confuses me about the timing is that they say the government is controlled by Taksin yet his wife just got 3 years and he is seeking asylum in UK. Clearly the judges don't know they are supposed to be Taksin's puppets!
Old Thai Hand
08-31-08, 03:46
Shutting the airports is a very strange move. Gets you noticed I suppose. Perhaps they will shut Swampy next.
Guardian today in the editorial said Samak should either resign or call another election and BBC say he will resign and hint at the King supporting PAD What confuses me about the timing is that they say the government is controlled by Taksin yet his wife just got 3 years and he is seeking asylum in UK. Clearly the judges don't know they are supposed to be Taksin's puppets!
The government were (allegedly) Taksin's puppets. The judiciary is different and more strongly connected to those in the previous junta and the PAD.
The government were (allegedly) Taksin's puppets. The judiciary is different and more strongly connected to those in the previous junta and the PAD.Just in case anyone had any lingering doubts that the PAD were not being totally supported and instructed by the Thai Army, I loved this photo in an International paper. Thai Army instructing PAD on how to protect themselves from the police.
LOL
Talk about openly admitting who is pulling the strings.
Stiffoak 571
08-31-08, 23:12
The government were (allegedly) Taksin's puppets. The judiciary is different and more strongly connected to those in the previous junta and the PAD.Just making the point that it seems a strange time to protest when the object of the PAD anger has been taken out of circulation and hasnt even got the money to run Man City without resorting to loans!
From PAGE 1 of The Nation today:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/01/business/business_30082106.php
No comment.
Giotto
RCA Knight
09-01-08, 06:04
The PAD is well funded and organized by the monarchists, royalists, and the Thai feudal family is also directly involved in the back. The Thai king and all their kids and cronies are all secretly backing these terrorists. Thats why their military and police cronies who are fed by the feudal family on the expenses of the nation, are all clearly condoning this uprising. I have some good friends at Asian Human Rights Commission. There are informants from the Thai military and they get inside reports.
The Thai feudal family is trying desperately to grasp on to their power, prestige and wealth and god-like status after the hypocrit king dies. The feudal family is taking the military and police even closer to them by sharing lots of national resources and befinits with them, so these 2 units are basically their personal guardians, paid on the expenses of the nation and people.
My friend at Asian Human Rights Commissions, his view is that feudal society will continue for a long time even after the hypocrit king dies, because the rest of the family is still in firm control of all the military and policial cronies of the country, and they also have these yellow shirt terrorists to overthrow any elected government for them if its against their liking.
Thailand will only evolve when all the human cages are lifted, when the masses are free to obsorb knowlege and free to learn thier history, but as long as the anarchy in power trying to keep the masses dumb and ignorant, the bright light is still light years away.
Terry Terrier
09-01-08, 11:39
So much for the "Ten Year Plan":
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20080901/tuk-man-city-bought-by-arab-group-45dbed5.html
Old Thai Hand
09-01-08, 13:39
So much for the "Ten Year Plan":
And, they've wasted no time...
From The Nation website --2/09/08, 02:33AM
Three died from the clash (at Government House)
Three people were reportedly dead but there was no further details. Thai PBS reports at 2.20am that three were dead from the clash between the pro-government and People's Alliance for Democracy groups. Earlier, the TV channel reported a person died but later there were reported that the death toll increased to three. About 10 people were reportedly injured and had been sent to the Vachira Hopsital in Samsen.
So far, no one could confirm which side the victims of the clash belong to.
LittleBigMan
09-02-08, 01:49
A wise Thai once told me, " the Thai's have democracy but they don't know it "
Whatever they are doing, it's right by me, Samak is the man since he came to power the Baht is at 34.06 vs. USD, the higher the more pussy for my dollar. But I know rice, oil, and everything is going up so it is somewhat of a wash. But I can cut back eating rice but not pussy!
LBM,
Old Thai Hand
09-02-08, 03:28
One dead. Dozens injured. Emergency has been declared. The army's in the streets. Tanks soon?
The Nation:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/02/headlines/headlines_30082270.php
A video clip about the incidents this early morning:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/02/headlines/headlines_30082253.php
Giotto
JThai Army instructing PAD on how to protect themselves from the police.
LOL
Talk about openly admitting who is pulling the strings.I suspect this has a lot to do with why the police were so loathe from the start to crack down on these lawbreakers.
Sheesh, these buggers are making me sound like some sort of law and order type (let alone a PPP supporter, double-sheesh), adding yet another bizarre personal twist to this Through The Looking Glass episode. Whatever is the next stop on the sublime to ridiculous continuum, Thailand is now there. Having a serious discussion about this crisis- who is backing whom, who is right or wrong- means taking this place seriously, and I can't even pretend to do that anymore. All that remains, my brothers, is looking to the practicalities. Everybody, watch your six, and resist the urge to get involved, Mr. Farang, because no matter how good your Thai and how many years you have invested here, you have no mutt in this soi dog Donnybrook. Knowing all the players and the background better than your average Somchai doesn't make you Lord Jim.
(Thank you for this opportunity to vent. Anybody got a spare 12-gauge they can lend me? Never mind, leaving town tomorrow if it is still possible. . .off to the sidelines where it is safe to laugh along with the rest of the world.)
Hi guys,
So, what is it like in BBK at the moment? I've a flight booked for tomorrow but now in two minds about coming out or not. Have you guys been affected? Are the troubles isolated to the govt regions?
Cheers & be safe
Old Thai Hand
09-02-08, 12:42
I suspect this has a lot to do with why the police were so loathe from the start to crack down on these lawbreakers.
Sheesh, these buggers are making me sound like some sort of law and order type (let alone a PPP supporter, double-sheesh), adding yet another bizarre personal twist to this Through The Looking Glass episode. Whatever is the next stop on the sublime to ridiculous continuum, Thailand is now there. Having a serious discussion about this crisis- who is backing whom, who is right or wrong- means taking this place seriously, and I can't even pretend to do that anymore. All that remains, my brothers, is looking to the practicalities. Everybody, watch your six, and resist the urge to get involved, Mr. Farang, because no matter how good your Thai and how many years you have invested here, you have no mutt in this soi dog Donnybrook. Knowing all the players and the background better than your average Somchai doesn't make you Lord Jim.
(Thank you for this opportunity to vent. Anybody got a spare 12-gauge they can lend me? Never mind, leaving town tomorrow if it is still possible. . .off to the sidelines where it is safe to laugh along with the rest of the world.)
I'm with you. As usual, Sanook, a nicely turned phrase here and there and dead-on POV.
If I remember correctly the royalists were the ones who made the coup and overthrew Shinawatra a couple of years ago because, they said, he was going to turn a demonstration into a clash and establish a junta.
Now the same people are pulling the strings and doing the clash in order to overthrow the newly ellected government because, most probably, they can't control it.
"Democracy" Thai style I would call it.
Actually that word has suffered so much by so many "democrats" around the world that the ancient Athenians would have commit suicide if they knew what was going to come.
El Greco
M P Lurker
09-02-08, 19:06
... turn a demonstration into a clush and establish a junta.
Hopefully I'm not the only one who has no idea what "clush" is? Its isn't a word (in English) and apparently normally an acronym for "clustered search"
Hopefully I'm not the only one who has no idea what "clush" is? Its isn't a word (in English) and apparently normally an acronym for "clustered search"
I think its should be clash, example; Culture clash or Russia-Georgia clash. Then it is understandable.
Montecristo
09-02-08, 20:37
Hi guys,
So, what is it like in BBK at the moment? I've a flight booked for tomorrow but now in two minds about coming out or not. Have you guys been affected? Are the troubles isolated to the govt regions?
Cheers & be safe
A newbie question, despite all the confusions Thailand is a very solid country, i think its almost impossible that things will get out of control, specially because general public is simply continuing their lives.
Don't follow too much the news !
Montecristo
Hopefully I'm not the only one who has no idea what "clush" is? Its isn't a word (in English) and apparently normally an acronym for "clustered search"
Sorry Mick it should read "clash" or maybe some other more appropriate word. You see English is not my mother tongue.
Thanks anyway.
Terry Terrier
09-02-08, 23:17
And, they've wasted no time...
But the big question among their rival fans is 'why haven't they awarded themselves a fourth star?' :D
I got a lot of PMs in the last few days, regarding the political situation and the safety to travel to Thailand.
It's a bit difficult to predict what happens next, but at this moment Thailand is still a safe place to travel to. The demonstrations are taking place in a specific region of Bangkok (where many Government buildings are), away from the usual tourist (and mongering) centers. At this moment it is completely quiet in the city, and in the nights the bars are nearly empty (and the girls out of work :) ). But this is also not unusual for this time of the year - low season.
The only possible impact which has to be watched is the ability of the PAD to block airports. They will not block the Bangkok airports, but they blocked Hat Yai, Krabi and Phuket last Friday, and today again flights to Hat Yai are cancelled. They can do this any time again, and that might then cause serious problems to tourists down there.
The discussions and rumours that electricity and water will be cut off are going around in the press. But the PAD will not cut off whole areas, up to now they only talked about specific government buildings and agencies ... and I don't expect any problems here for the normal tourist and living areas here in Bangkok. The PAD is experiencing growing support, and they don't want to turn this development around. Once they cut off residential areas the sentiment would change immediately.
The pressure for PM Samak to step down is increasing at this moment, he loses more and more support. I personally expect that the coalition to break within the next few days - one of the coalition partners (all together 5 parties right now) will leave the government to benefit from the actual political situation. This will further weaken Samaks position. The rest of his downturn and end of political career he can arrange by himself: some more interviews on CNN as that one from yesterday and he will soon be offered a job as cooking clown somewhere in a Thai specialities restaurant. Btw., that might be definitely a reasonable option for his future professional life: Thailands First Cooking Clown!
The army is not going to stage another coup. They will also not use force to drive the PAD out of the Government House. The solution will come (sooner or later, but most likely sooner) when Samak resigns (to be expected this week). The PAD leaders can then leave the Government House without losing face, and for some months to come the fight will be moved to courts where those people will defend themselves against the criminal offences they are charged with.
All that will of course have an impact on the tourism to Thailand, many hotels already encounter cancellations of bookings. Nevertheless Thailand is still a safe place for travelling.
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
09-03-08, 11:00
Not to alarm anyone, or to contradict Giotto, but yesterday, there were demonstrations at the Tobacco Exhange and other government buildings near SET, not far from Asoke and Soi Cowboy.
There was nothing today, though (I live across the road). It may have been workers there protesting in support of PAD. I haven't been able to find out anything more.
Just want to keep everyone informed as much as possible.
I got a lot of PMs in the last few days, regarding the political situation and the safety to travel to Thailand.
Almost surely no physical danger, but a very real one of missing a flight connection or other inconvenience. In my case I just returned to the country yesterday and it's been a total PITA trying find a way down to Hatyai now that trains and flights are stopped. After about an hour at the Southern Bus Terminal this afternoon, dealing with some very pissed-off looking people behind the counters, I barely managed to get a seat on a bus tomorrow night. Meanwhile the hordes of farang backpacking types lined up at the Krabi and Phuket windows were getting no love at all. Not a happy holiday scene.
Old Thai Hand
09-03-08, 14:55
At this point, who cares? There aren't going to be any winners in this mess.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30082501
At this point, who cares? There aren't going to be any winners in this mess.
...Heard the rumours here, too.
The Foreign Minister Tej Bunnag resigned today. That is very sad, this is one of the best politicians Thailand has, and I developed some optimism when he took over that office 7 weeks ago.
This is on the other hand also a clear indication that this government does not survive long time any more. Tey belongs to the Bunnag family, and this is one of the most influential families of Thailand.
Giotto
...it's been a total PITA trying find a way down to Hatyai now that trains and flights are stopped.
Flights are stopped? This is the first I've heard of that. Also I thought the train service restarted. Are the airports shut down or something?
I came in and out of Mochit and down to Pattaya this last weekend and everything was totally normal.
Flights are stopped?
They are to Hatyai and Krabi, since PAD supporters are blocking both of them. They're also threatening to close down every other major airport in the south.
Train service south briefly started a couple days ago, then stopped again. Many other routes too. Hualampong yesterday felt deserted, with no trains at most of the platforms.
The PM did not resign today, when he addressed the Thais in a nationwide radio programme this morning. Situation unchanged. I think nobody has a clue any more how to get out of this political deadlock.
Giotto
The PM did not resign today, when he addressed the Thais in a nationwide radio programme this morning. Situation unchanged. I think nobody has a clue any more how to get out of this political deadlock.
Giotto
By getting into many Thai pussy deadlocks. LOL
I am still thinking of coming there next weekend though. Hope it will get better till then. Otherwise Jakarta could be an option if it was not the ramadan.
Thanks for the updates anyway.
The PM did not resign today, when he addressed the Thais in a nationwide radio programme this morning. Situation unchanged. I think nobody has a clue any more how to get out of this political deadlock.
GiottoWhy did you even think he would resign?
The PPP are the democratically elected government. End of story.
If you a few inbreds want to cause trouble cause they do not like the election results. Well tough.
Good on Samak, refuse to resign, and tell the inbred PAD to go to the ballot box if they want to question democracy.
Why did you even think he would resign?
The PPP are the democratically elected government. End of story.
If you a few inbreds want to cause trouble cause they do not like the election results. Well tough.
Good on Samak, refuse to resign, and tell the inbred PAD to go to the ballot box if they want to question democracy.Easy2007,
LOL,
it's an easy living with an easy mind set, isn't it :) ?
Giotto
Terry Terrier
09-05-08, 00:42
Easy2007,
LOL,
it's an easy living with an easy mind set, isn't it :) ?
Giotto
I'm not laughing out loud. It would (sadly) seem that the only way that Thailand will appear to get the government it deserves is through imposition, which is probably what will happen (imposition, that is). But Thailand will probably keep it's absurd status quo and nothing will change.
Old Thai Hand
09-05-08, 03:40
I'm not laughing out loud. It would (sadly) seem that the only way that Thailand will appear to get the government it deserves is through imposition, which is probably what will happen (imposition, that is). But Thailand will probably keep it's absurd status quo and nothing will change.
Samak is part of the status quo. The Junta was part of the status quo. Taksin was part of the status quo. It really doesn't matter who's in charge, the real balance of power won't change.
Lover Boy #2
09-05-08, 05:05
Samak is part of the status quo. The Junta was part of the status quo. Taksin was part of the status quo. It really doesn't matter who's in charge, the real balance of power won't change.
The King going to Paradise might be the beginning of some sort of change....maybe it will take a few years past that point. In the end, in the mind of Thai's, the King is the greatest symbol of stability and the status quo. For many Thai's, he is the only father they have known.......their lives will be in turmoil at this incident......and it might push eventual change......maybe......
It's very quiet in Bangkok.
The last major incident was the shooting of two Rhamkamhaeng students on their way to PM Samak's home, together with approx. 100 anti-government demonstrators. A motorbike stopped around 4 m aside the students and injured two (leg, arm). A speaker of the police afterwards assumed that "the shooter was most probably irritated by the noise the students were making with their late-night demonstration and decided to shoot them as a result" (The Nation).
Yesterday we had heavy rain here in Bangkok, for approx. 2 hours, streets were flooded. I don't want to know the conditions the demonstrators face at the Government House right now.
On the political side: The goverment has decided to hold a national referendum to ease the tensions and let the people decide what to do. 3 questions:
1. Should the government continue in office, resign, or dissolve the House for a snap election?
2. Should the PAD continue or end its protests?
3. Should the PAD's proposal on new politics to revamp the electoral system be accepted?
Besides the fact that such a referendum itself already confirms weakness of a goverment (especially the first question) it would most likely be a step in the wrong direction and cause further divisions within the Thai people. It is widely seen as an attempt of the goverment to play the time card. Comments from the PAD in regards of the referendum are rare - they basically doubt whether it is possible to phrase the questions in such a referendum that they comply with the constitution.
The latest news is that the Speaker of the Senate shall take over a mediator role to find a compromise between Government and PAD.
The airports are open. Most, but not all trains are running again. The port is back at work.
Giotto
The government is using its new secret weapon against the PAD: Heavy Rain.
The downpour of the past few days significantly reduced the number of protestors at the Government House.
PM Samak is obviously searching for answers in temples. He was seen attending some ceremonies yesterday. That reminds me of the story/rumour about PM Chavalit during the Asian Crisis 1997 - when the baht (that time fixed against the USD) was hit by massive speculative attacks - and Thailand was pulverizing its foreign currency reserves to defend the baht Chavalit was searching for advice from fortune tellers. The outcome was a complete loss of the Thai foreign currency reserves and an even steeper fall of the currency...
Compared to that Samak is obviously making a better choice. Hopefully he gets enlightened.
PAD leader Sondhi had also interesting news for us: He said yesterday that he would become a monk for the rest of his life if "there's peace in the country". Not all of his news are that interesting, a few days ago he confessed that he never wore underwear since he left the university long time ago. Now - that's important news for Thailands Fashion Industry. Or may be not.
TIT.
Giotto
Stiffoak 571
09-08-08, 22:51
But if the court bans Samak because he accepted money from his cookery programme in breach of constitution then he's gone and PAD win!
Would be bizarre way for it to end - but is it Samak or just the whole PPP they want rid of?
NicFrenchy
09-09-08, 03:26
but is it Samak or just the whole PPP they want rid of?
I am sure they don't even know themselves
PM Samak was just convicted from the Constitutional Court, because of his TV cooking show. That "disqualifies" him as PM, as well as his cabinet.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/09/headlines/headlines_30082964.php
TIT
Giotto
PM Samak was just convicted from the Constitutional Court, because of his TV cooking show. That "disqualifies" him as PM, as well as his cabinet.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/09/headlines/headlines_30082964.php
TIT
GiottoThank´s for your fast information. But what will happen now? Must Samak and all the cabinet step down ? Can he be voted back?
Many foreigners and tourists worry about the progress of troubles.
NicFrenchy
09-09-08, 12:59
What a fucking joke. I hate this country and these people. No integrity, No morals, no ethics, totally mentally deficient.
Come on OTH, tell us how you really Feel
Come on OTH, tell us how you really Feel
All Americans and others should love this country:
- Fake elections - the ballot mashines in Florida e.g.,
- TV and Movie star PMs or presidents, incl. BBBJ lovers.
- Bath or dollars for the vote ... if you don´t raise and spend millions, you´ll never make it... and so forth.
A perfect match. Why complain ?
What a fucking joke. I hate this country and these people. No integrity, No morals, no ethics, totally mentally deficient.
...
Old Thai Hand,
Please, relax, your bloodpressure ... :)
I really start to enjoy this Thai soap-opera. They show all the world how things work here in Thailand, and they do not even have the impression that it comes accross like a ridiculous power game of a banana republic. Demonstrations, during which people are hurt and killed will not get anybody out of a beloved government position. Incompetence, corruption cases, political mistakes, attempts to modify the constitution for selfish reasons will not either.
But if you run a cooking show in the TV you are convicted, cooking obviously disqualifies for the job as a prime minister of a country (a bit simplified :) ).
This is Thailand!
Giotto
But if you run a cooking show in the TV you are convicted, cooking obviously disqualifies for the job as a prime minister of a country (a bit simplified :) ).
This is Thailand!Obviously, cooking requires creativity, foresight, eye for good produce/vegetables, judge of audience's taste vs. level of spice, planning, timing, and managerial skill. And, be able to make real tangible products to be enjoyed by people.
None of these are needed for running a SEAsian country. :o
They need liers, stealers, corrupt politicians, jealous ex-business partners, and megalomanics. :(
Stiffoak 571
09-09-08, 19:13
Old Thai Hand,
Please, relax, your bloodpressure ... :)
I really start to enjoy this Thai soap-opera. They show all the world how things work here in Thailand, and they do not even have the impression that it comes accross like a ridiculous power game of a banana republic. Demonstrations, during which people are hurt and killed will not get anybody out of a beloved government position. Incompetence, corruption cases, political mistakes, attempts to modify the constitution for selfish reasons will not either.
But if you run a cooking show in the TV you are convicted, cooking obviously disqualifies for the job as a prime minister of a country (a bit simplified :) ).
This is Thailand!
GiottoIf Samak needs a job. Could you squeeze him in at the Lodge. Perhaps on all day breakfasts?
Its sounds crazy but many ministers in UK get sacked for similar taking money for things/having cheap loans on houses/free hotel visits/even arranging your lovers nanny to have a work permit. But it isn't as funny as sacked for doing cookery programme
I just think it could be the way of Samak going and saving face. But if this one doesn't get him there are still 2 other serious court cases and the whole party being disbanded. So difficult to see how he survives with or without PAD.
Terry Terrier
09-09-08, 23:35
Sack the chef because the food's no good, but this is ridiculous :D.
As I see it, the only major international influence in Thailand's affairs is the USA. What are they making of the strange goings-on in Bangkok on that side of the Pond?
...As I see it, the only major international influence in Thailand's affairs is the USA. What are they making of the strange goings-on in Bangkok on that side of the Pond?
We're thinking like we always do about the third world, while deep down in our hearts, we know we are not different. Hypocrisy pervades American culture.
Sack the chef because the food's no good, but this is ridiculous :D.
As I see it, the only major international influence in Thailand's affairs is the USA. What are they making of the strange goings-on in Bangkok on that side of the Pond?
My father had a saying for things like this: He said some people just do everything backwards they wipe their dick instead of their ass after shitting :)
Tomorrow the House will elect the new PM. There is a lot going on behind closed doors. First the 6 party coalition comfirmed its intention to build the new government, and it is espected that Samak will be re-elected. His nomination is to now not officially confirmed, that shall happen tomorrow morning 7:30 am.
But now comes the good news:
70 MPs from the PPP (those from the North/North-East) announced their decision NOT to support Samak, to avoid an increase of "violoence and confrontation in the country"! This from the Isaan fraction of the PPP, the strong supporters from Ex-PM Thaksin.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=130597
If that definitely happens then something will change. Light at the end of the tunnel?
Giotto
PS: Arrivals of foreigners in Thailand down 70 % since the outbreak of the political turmoil
PS: Arrivals of foreigners in Thailand down 70 % since the outbreak of the political turmoilExcellent news, this will keep short term and long term prices nice and low, and should see a lot better quality freelancers around.
Come back Samak, more turmoil is good for mongerers.
All Americans and others should love this country:
- Fake elections - the ballot mashines in Florida e.g.,
- TV and Movie star PMs or presidents, incl. BBBJ lovers.
- Bath or dollars for the vote ... if you don´t raise and spend millions, you´ll never make it... and so forth.
A perfect match. Why complain ?
Aren't you forgetting Bush?
And don't knock BBBJs!
The vote of the House for a new PM was postponed to Wednesday.
Severe opposition against reinstating Samak - rumours about that started circulation yesterday afternoon. Today Chart Thai, The Democrats and Pracharaj Party announced their boycot of the House session. Many MPs of the PPP also did not appreciate the nomination Samaks.
The postponement buys time for the PPP to sort the issue around Samak out. For Samak all that is now about losing face - that will make it difficult for him to step back. But if he does not he takes the risk that the coalition or even the PPP will break apart.
Interesting days to come.
Giotto
PS: The Nation:
" Former prime minister Samak Sundaravej left Parliament at 10 am after the session for the nomination of a new prime minister was adjourned to Wednesday.
Samak declined to answer questions of reporters on his political future.
He face looked stern and People Power Party MP Nisit Sinthuprai, who walked after him, told him: "Please smile a little bit, boss". "
M P Lurker
09-12-08, 07:45
.....
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=130597
If that definitely happens then something will change. Light at the end of the tunnel?
Giotto
PS: Arrivals of foreigners in Thailand down 70 % since the outbreak of the political turmoil
Thanks for the daily updates. Nice to get a short summary for those like me too lazy to search the news.
A bit of political turmoil can't keep us hardened mongers out.
So its non-mongering tourists 70% down, Mongers down a little I reckon. I am arriving in a week to boost the numbers.
Thanks for the daily updates. Nice to get a short summary for those like me too lazy to search the news.
A bit of political turmoil can't keep us hardened mongers out.
So its non-mongering tourists 70% down, Mongers down a little I reckon. I am arriving in a week to boost the numbers.
I Just got one question...This whole tirade is getting ridiculous now the economy is losing probably millions in tourist dollars why won’t the king say something since he is so revered?
I Just got one question...This whole tirade is getting ridiculous now the economy is losing probably millions in tourist dollars why won’t the king say something since he is so revered?Daddy Warbucks 1,
First the latest info: Sources around Samak have announced that he will not run for the PM job any more, and soon resign as party leader of the PPP.
The King will not get involved into the politics as long as there are no serious clashes between pro / anti government demonstrators. The only day it was speculated that the King could intervene was the day after one demonstrant was killed in front of Government house.
Comments from political observers and the Kings counsellors are steady regarding this issue, long time already. The King believes, that this are political issues, and these issues should be resolved with the democratic means, laws, courts, government actions, without his involvement.
Giotto
I Just got one question...This whole tirade is getting ridiculous now the economy is losing probably millions in tourist dollars why won’t the king say something since he is so revered?
Indeed His Majesty is revered beyond any doubt. However, he is not as strong as he once was and is now at the age when one wants to do well till the end.
What could he say, except preach for peace and understanding, respect of the law etc. that nobody in the political arena is ready to listen to anyway. And if he intervened and was not obeyed, what would be the outcome? Thailand still needs to be governed. That means having a government that is legitimate and stable. The King does not have in his very limited powers to do much about that.
Much of the reverence attached to HM’s person is attributable to the fact that he has always succeeded in appearing not aligned with any political fraction. This a moral capital could vanish overnight if the Crown was seen to back one side against the other. The only reasonable course of action for the King is to keep quiet and hope for the best.
Stiffoak 571
09-13-08, 21:29
Thanks for the daily updates. Nice to get a short summary for those like me too lazy to search the news.
A bit of political turmoil can't keep us hardened mongers out.
So its non-mongering tourists 70% down, Mongers down a little I reckon. I am arriving in a week to boost the numbers.And those of us coming from afar will hope for a lowering of the baht as a result of the problems.
Old Thai Hand
09-14-08, 05:55
The new PM will likely be Toxin's brother-in-law. So, what's the difference? The PAD will continue. Chaos and instability will reign until they get whatever it is that they want (if they even really know).
Same same
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30083388
Giotto
M P Lurker
09-14-08, 08:49
The new PM will likely be Toxin's brother-in-law. So, what's the difference? The PAD will continue. Chaos and instability will reign until they get whatever it is that they want (if they even really know).
Same same
will make a nice change from seeing Samak's ugly face with no neck in the news. :)
Hopefully the new guy will have a neck like I do.
The new PM will likely be Toxin's brother-in-law. So, what's the difference? The PAD will continue. Chaos and instability will reign until they get whatever it is that they want (if they even really know).
Same sameHe has never, ever, assisted his brother in law. This is well known.
Therefore, if people like you want to be prejudiced (as you are a strong PAD supporter it seems from all your past comments) then yes, the PAD will continue to tell lies and demonstrate.
Why are idiots always so prejudiced?
Terry Terrier
09-14-08, 22:46
He has never, ever, assisted his brother in law. This is well known.
Therefore, if people like you want to be prejudiced (as you are a strong PAD supporter it seems from all your past comments) then yes, the PAD will continue to tell lies and demonstrate.
Why are idiots always so prejudiced?
Easy, we are all prejudiced to some degree, and OTH is one of the more prejudiced ones among us on this Section. But he is very much not an idiot, and calling him one is not helpful to these discussions.
Old Thai Hand
09-15-08, 01:10
He has never, ever, assisted his brother in law. This is well known.
Therefore, if people like you want to be prejudiced (as you are a strong PAD supporter it seems from all your past comments) then yes, the PAD will continue to tell lies and demonstrate.
Why are idiots always so prejudiced?
Just for the record, I'm not a PAD supporter. They lost all credibility long ago. I support nobody.
I would however say that you are in fact the one who is prejudiced. Afterall, in the face of overriding damning evidence, not to mention that his big-haired, c**t of a wife robbed the Thai people and was convicted for it, you continue to support Toxin and his thugs and have referred to PAD as "inbreds".
If that isn't prejudice, I don't know what is. So, welcome to the "idiots" club. ;)
Easy, we are all prejudiced to some degree, and OTH is one of the more prejudiced ones among us on this Section. But he is very much not an idiot, and calling him one is not helpful to these discussions.Terry, not all Isaan people are lazy, but OTH loves to "tar all with the same brush".
Not all Isaan girls are "skanks" but OTH loves to "tar all with the same brush".
Not all short term tourists are "tank top, flip flop skank lovers" but OTH loves to tar all with the same brush...
I could go on and on, but I only feel its fair that if someone builds up a reputation for "shooting comments from the hip to play for the crowds" then they deserve the very same dished out back to them.
Anyone who immediately comes out with the comment on the recent news about the "brother in law so same same" when its very well known that he has NEVER assisted Thaksin, well, I think that is idiotic - and very deserving of the label "idiot" for such prejudice.
M P Lurker
09-15-08, 09:14
Terry, not all Isaan people are lazy, but OTH loves to "tar all with the same brush".
....
Yes its definitely true that OTH is guilty of gross over-generalisation and sometimes vitrolic crap. Don't you love to have someone with some intellegance that is that annoying on the forum? Its better to argue with him than someone who writes just nonsensical bullshit.
Remember OTH does admit his GF is a white skinned Issaan girl. I have a tan coloured Issaan girl because I don't like overly white skin (just kidding).
Some georgous black girls here in Frankfurt.
But the Dominican girl I went with wasn't very dark really.
Easy2007, Are you a full Thaksin and Samak supporter? You seem to come accross as a lone voice !
Old Thai Hand
09-15-08, 10:25
Easy
You take yourself (and me), way too seriously!
This board is often a mutual admiration society and therefore needs a bit of stirring up, now and then. Otherwise, it would just be so endlessly boring.
None of this, whether my blather or yours is going to change the world, and therefore is not important, in the least. It's all just fun and games.
Lighten up dude. :)
Somchai or not Somchai, that's the question here ... next chapter of the Thai political turmoil soap-opera.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/15/politics/politics_30083470.php
TIT
Giotto
Somchai or not Somchai, that's the question here ... next chapter of the Thai political turmoil soap-opera.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/15/politics/politics_30083470.php
TIT
GiottoThis is the business of a democratically elected government, it is their choice.
The election was carried out under martial law in many places, with the Army informing all soldiers to vote against PPP, with the army controlling the ballot boxes and having many many men out looking for vote buying by any PPP candidate.
It was biased, extremely, against the PPP and yet they still won.
Which is why we are where we are, with the PAD acting as a front for a back door coup.
Let the PPP rule the country, as is their right as the winners of an election (one which saw far LESS vote buying than any other in the past few decades).
Jungle Bluebird
09-15-08, 13:54
usually i would agree to this. but what happened over the last few weeks was different. it was an effort of sondhi and comrades to deliberately hurt the private business sector. this country has lost billions (THB) as a result of his attacks on the tourism industry.
another hit like that in the near future may turn this country into anarchy, which seems to be the aim of sondhi and cronies.
note: sondhi etc got away with his actions. he will be back for more...
JB
Somchai or not Somchai, that's the question here ... next chapter of the Thai political turmoil soap-opera.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/15/politics/politics_30083470.php
TIT
Giotto
Terry Terrier
09-15-08, 22:36
Anyone who immediately comes out with the comment on the recent news about the "brother in law so same same" when its very well known that he has NEVER assisted Thaksin
So, after duly becoming Prime Minister of Thailand, Somchai makes his first official visit to London. After all the formalities of the first thirty-six hours are out of the way, he gets to sneak off for a quiet private lunch at the "Thai Emerald Buddha" restaurant. Soon after being seated, he is approached by a smart-suited late-middle-aged Chinese-Thai man:
Somchai: "Do I know you?"
Man: "Yes. I'm your brother-in-law. And I'm a major benefactor to your political party."
Somchai: "Aaaah.....that's interesting. So, what are you doing in London?"
Man: "I'm evading the law courts, along with my wife, in our homeland."
Somchai: "But what has this got to do with me?"
Man: "Can we have a quiet chat somewhere?....."
.....to be continued ad-nauseum.
Terry, not all Isaan people are lazy, but OTH loves to "tar all with the same brush".
It is a curious (or perhaps not so curious) characteristic of most decriers of 'laziness' that they overlook the most clearly lazy in our society - the rich. However since the owning class is the one whose leisure and privilege we all labour for, perhaps their languidity is considered worthy and commendable.
Old Thai Hand
09-16-08, 02:38
So, after duly becoming Prime Minister of Thailand, Somchai makes his first official visit to London. After all the formalities of the first thirty-six hours are out of the way, he gets to sneak off for a quiet private lunch at the "Thai Emerald Buddha" restaurant. Soon after being seated, he is approached by a smart-suited late-middle-aged Chinese-Thai man:
Somchai: "Do I know you?"
Man: "Yes. I'm your brother-in-law. And I'm a major benefactor to your political party."
Somchai: "Aaaah.....that's interesting. So, what are you doing in London?"
Man: "I'm evading the law courts, along with my wife, in our homeland."
Somchai: "But what has this got to do with me?"
Man: "Can we have a quiet chat somewhere?....."
.....to be continued ad-nauseum.
:D :D :D :D :D
This is the business of a democratically elected government, it is their choice.
The election was carried out under martial law in many places, with the Army informing all soldiers to vote against PPP, with the army controlling the ballot boxes and having many many men out looking for vote buying by any PPP candidate.
It was biased, extremely, against the PPP and yet they still won.
Which is why we are where we are, with the PAD acting as a front for a back door coup.
...
Easy2007,
That's now too much nonsense. You obviously have very simple way of interpreting Thai politics.
Besides the fact that I don't understand your first sentence - the PPP vote buyers (and most likely buyers from other smaller parties as well) went from house to house in the rural areas and bought the votes. Nothing could stop them. I know about cases in which people lost jobs or businesses (e.g. food stalls in schools) when they refused to support the PPP (in areas with local PPP administration).
Nobody knows in details which party benefitted most from vote buying, but it is likely that the PPP did, because they have by far the best financial support during elections.
Before the last election there was a huge discussion about the army supporting a kind of anti-PPP movement amongst the soldiers, and several high ranking army generals backed the PPP up and encouraged soldiers to vote for PPP.
Though I am definitely not a friend of the PAD and their in my POV widely illegal activities at this moment I find it necessary for Thailand to go through this period and learn how to deal with democratic rules and structures. We had similiar developments in many major democracies (e.g. Germany 1968, APO).
Furthermore all this is - for nothing! What is always assumed in this discussions is that those politicians (PPP, Democrats, Chart Thai or whatever) really have the power in this country. This is NOT the case! This is just a big show for the Thais - something like opium for the people.
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
09-16-08, 04:45
Back before the 2001 election and before the TRT were yet widely known, I had an opportunity to see one aspect of the inner workings of Thai politics and the beginnings of the TRT.
A student of mine was married to the soon-to-be TRT candidate in Prachuab Khiri Khan, whose family essentially owned large portions of the province and ran all of it. His father was the 'don' of the family. These people were into EVERYTHING and so ruthless, they made the Gambinos look like a bunch of school yard bullies.
An anecdote to give you an idea about these people...
The father (the 'don'), although filthy rich liked to appear as the common man and tended to dress in Mor Horm and eat at street-side restaurants. One day, he was eating at one of his favorite little roadside places up in Phetchaburi, when the owner's dog started barking loudly and wouldn't stop. Without missing a beat, while eating, he casually pulled out a gun and shot the dog, put the gun slowly on the table and continued eating, as if nothing had happened.
In any event, I was invited with some students and another faculty member to spend the weekend at the family compound: really more like a small walled town with several houses and other buildings, a small lake, a pool, and 4 meter concrete walls topped by barbed wire and broken glass. When we entered the parking area, we were met by what was esentially a small army of rather dodgey-looking thugs cleaning M16s. There was fleet of high-priced cars: Mercs, BMWs etc. as well as a variety of pickup trucks. Along one wall was a 10 meter table covered from one end to the other with more automatic weapons than I had seen since my army days. There were even a couple of RPGs and generally, enough ordinance to overthrow a Central American banana republic (or, I guess, in this case, a South-East Asian one). Stacked in pile after pile against the walls were TRT election posters with the gleaming face of Taksin. This was the first time I had ever seen or even heard of him.
During the course of this weekend, it became very evident that these people had a very serious agenda: to win at all costs - by election, if possible or by force, if it came to that. My student's husband was very frank about their strategy - to acquire loyalty among the masses through whatever means was necessary in order to take over Thailand. He stated that they essentially commanded a good portion of the country's wealth and would use it to win - meaning buy their way into power.
The whole spectacle was chilling, to say the least.
Taksin was the 'poster boy', the apparently legitimate businessman putting on a fresh face to hide the dark and sinister forces behind it all.
The same people are still behind it all. It doesn't matter whether it's the PPP of some other party. Same same.
It's wall-to-wall guns and a shit-load of money. It's just that simple.
...The whole spectacle was chilling, to say the least.
...It's wall-to-wall guns and a shit-load of money. It's just that simple.
Interesting. Looks like I have only 2 choices now:
1) risk my life with the prospect of being killed by Thai government thugs in a civil war;
2) going back to the USA and getting no more pretty young pussy for the rest of my life.
It's a no-brainer -- I pick option #1. :)
Giotto,
For the past many decades, Democrat, Chart Thai and all the other parties canvassers have gone from house to house vote buying at night. ALL PARTIES DO IT. The Democrats did it this time all throughout the south, where they won many seats.
The difference was:
The Junta set about putting "watchers" on all PPP activities, ignoring the Democrats, which is why the PPP complained it was unfair, they were not allowed to "vote buy" freely, where as the opposition parties were allowed to, and got away with it.
The Army did not support the PPP, solidiers were instructed to vote against the PPP. Some refused yes, but the overall instruction was to vote against the PPP. Why did you think there was a coup? FFS.
Martial law was still in place in many area's of the country at the election time.
I think you are stuck in the "Bangkok PAD timewarp" and lapping up all the spin and BS in the media. You should get out more.
Easy2007,
That's now too much nonsense. You obviously have very simple way of interpreting Thai politics.
Besides the fact that I don't understand your first sentence - the PPP vote buyers (and most likely buyers from other smaller parties as well) went from house to house in the rural areas and bought the votes. Nothing could stop them. I know about cases in which people lost jobs or businesses (e.g. food stalls in schools) when they refused to support the PPP (in areas with local PPP administration).
Nobody knows in details which party benefitted most from vote buying, but it is likely that the PPP did, because they have by far the best financial support during elections.
Before the last election there was a huge discussion about the army supporting a kind of anti-PPP movement amongst the soldiers, and several high ranking army generals backed the PPP up and encouraged soldiers to vote for PPP.
Though I am definitely not a friend of the PAD and their in my POV widely illegal activities at this moment I find it necessary for Thailand to go through this period and learn how to deal with democratic rules and structures. We had similiar developments in many major democracies (e.g. Germany 1968, APO).
Furthermore all this is - for nothing! What is always assumed in this discussions is that those politicians (PPP, Democrats, Chart Thai or whatever) really have the power in this country. This is NOT the case! This is just a big show for the Thais - something like opium for the people.
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
09-16-08, 05:10
Interesting. Looks like I have only 2 choices now:
1) risk my life with the prospect of being killed by Thai government thugs in a civil war;
2) going back to the USA and getting no more pretty young pussy for the rest of my life.
It's a no-brainer -- I pick option #1. :)
You're old anyway. Might as well die with a smile on your face. ;)
Back before the 2001 election and before the TRT were yet widely known, I had an opportunity to see one aspect of the inner workings of Thai politics and the beginnings of the TRT.
A student of mine was married to the soon-to-be TRT candidate in Prachuab Khiri Khan, whose family essentially owned large portions of the province and ran all of it. His father was the 'don' of the family. These people were into EVERYTHING and so ruthless, they made the Gambinos look like a bunch of school yard bullies.
An anecdote to give you an idea about these people...
The father (the 'don'), although filthy rich like to appear as the common man and tended to dress in Mor Horm and eat at street-side restaurants. One day, he was eating at one of his favorite little roadside places up in Phetchaburi, when the owner's dog started barking loudly and wouldn't stop. Without missing a beat, while eating, he casually pulled out a gun and shot the dog, put the gun slowly on the table and continued eating, as if nothing had happened.
In any event, I was invited with some students and another faculty member to spend the weekend at the family compound: really more like a small walled town with several houses and other buildings, a small lake, a pool, and 4 meter concrete walls topped by barbed wire and broken glass. When we entered the parking area, we were met by what was esentially a small army of rather dodgey-looking thugs cleaning M16s. There was fleet of high-priced cars: Mercs, BMWs etc. as well as a variety of pickup trucks. Along one wall was a 10 meter table covered from one end to the other with more automatic weapons than I had seen since my army days. There were even a couple of RPGs and generally, enough ordinance to overthrow a Central American banana republic (or, I guess, in this case, a South-East Asian one). Stacked in pile after pile against the walls were TRT election posters with the gleaming face of Taksin. This was the first time I had ever seen or even heard of him.
During the course of this weekend, it became very evident that these people had a very serious agenda: to win at all costs - by election, if possible or by force, if it came to that. My student's husband was very frank about their strategy - to acquire loyalty among the masses through whatever means was necessary in order to take over Thailand. He stated that they essentially commanded a good portion of the country's wealth and would use it to win - meaning buy their way into power.
The whole spectacle was chilling, to say the least.
Taksin was the 'poster boy', the apparently legitimate businessman putting on a fresh face to hide the dark and sinister forces behind it all.
The same people are still behind it all. It doesn't matter whether it's the PPP of some other party. Same same.
It's wall-to-wall guns and a shit-load of money. It's just that simple.
If this account is true, then it is something that needs to be brought out into the open. Send it to the newspapers, the TV stations, the Democrat party and above all the PAD.
Old Thai Hand
09-16-08, 09:30
If this account is true, then it is something that needs to be brought out into the open. Send it to the newspapers, the TV stations, the Democrat party and above all the PAD.
Of course it's true.
Contact the media? Where do you think you are, some egalitarian democracy somewhere?
The Dems have no power, unless someone decides to give them power, and PAD have revealed their true colours as a reactionary, neo-Nazi, anti-democratic, monarchist league.
Do you think I'm going to risk my life by exposing these people? Even writing what I've written is somewhat dangerous. Families, like the one I described are the ones who really run this country. The rot goes to the very, very top, if you get my drift.
When I lived in Hua Hin, it was common knowledge among the locals that the hills in the area from Hua Hin up to Phetchaburi were full of the bodies of those who got on the wrong side of these people.
The judiciary can go after someone like Taksin, because he isn't one of them. The Shinawatra family are extremely rich, but not part of the old families. He was the perfect person to front the TRT because he was (at the time) unsullied, and the source of his wealth was comparatively transparent and clean.
But, he forgot his place, got cocky and power-hungry, and therefore became expendable.
...Families, like the one I described are the ones who really run this country.
Families like the {edit for safety} etc. are the true power here.
But surely Bunnags et al are above sitting in walled compound surrounded by thugs. The family you described sounded a bit rough-hewn, and anyway, the fact that they intended to 'take over Thailand' through TRT suggests that they did not already control it.
Perhaps you have also met, dined, and weekended with (perhaps even clandestinely prodded) {family names removed}, but lets try to make a distinction between the aristocracy and the social climbing business class.
Old Thai Hand
09-16-08, 10:58
But surely Bunnags et al are above sitting in walled compound surrounded by thugs. The family you described sounded a bit rough-hewn, and anyway, the fact that they intended to 'take over Thailand' through TRT suggests that they did not already control it.
Perhaps you have also met, dined, and weekended with (perhaps even clandestinely prodded) {family names removed}, but lets try to make a distinction between the aristocracy and the social climbing business class.
Well the lines are sometimes blurred between the two. Thai TV soaps are a good barometer of the social classes, as terrible as these shows are to watch. The classic stories haven't really changed much. 30 or 40 years ago, the rich families in these stories were often Thai aristocracy and even princely families. Watch the movie 'Jan Dara', about the rotten intrigue in an old aristocratic family to see that nothing much has actually changed. Those old families have been replaced on TV with the new reality of the rich, Thai-Chinese business family. In many cases, there are links (marriage, business etc.) between these 'new-money' families and the old aristocracy. It depends on who the families are.
After the economic melt-down in 97, there was considerable instability just below the surface. The TRT was a way for these people to firmly take control, again, while appeasing the masses, with admittedly some worthwhile social programs and thus gaining their undying support, to once and for all gain total control.
Thailand is essentially a feudal society and it's current state of affairs is tribal warfare under a different guise. If you look at Thai history over the last 500 years it is nothing but a series of family feuds - similar to Europe from the Middle Ages, up to the 16th century. You can just exchange the Renaissance Strozzi, Medici, Pazzi, Sforza family names with corresponding Thai ones and the story is the same.
Even the 'big mob in charge' had a tenuous hold on things, at best throughout most of the 19th century.
It should be noted, for example that Rama V sent death squads to kill the last remaining competition to his absolute control of the Thai monarchy: namely, the Lanna royal family in Chiang Mai. Fortunately they were tipped off and escaped the country to Luang Prabang.
BTW, the Bunnags are one of the largest families (800+) and have a lot of power. But, I wouldn't put them in with the more sinister lot, I describe. My experience of them, (such as it is) is that they are quite an honorable bunch.
Easy2007,
....
Though I am definitely not a friend of the PAD and their in my POV widely illegal activities at this moment I find it necessary for Thailand to go through this period and learn how to deal with democratic rules and structures. We had similiar developments in many major democracies (e.g. Germany 1968, APO).
Are you suggesting the APO also bought votes?? I thought they only murdered people?
Are you suggesting the APO also bought votes?? I thought they only murdered people?Daddy San,
The APO (Ausserparlamentarische Opposition) was not a political party, so they did not buy votes. That's anyway quite unusual in Germany. I think you mix it up with the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion) . Those were the terrorists / murderers. But they also did not buy votes :) ...
Giotto
PS: Rudi Dutschke, one of the leaders of the APO, was murdered...
LittleBigMan
09-16-08, 20:54
Bumholes1,
You need to get your head out of the sand. OTH, hit it right on the nail!
In Thailand, that's the way it works! the only difference like in the U.S. the crooks are all wearing ties!
Go to the newspapers, who you think owns everything? Taksin is a stupid MF, and deserves to be in living in England. If he is wondering why he is there? tell him to look in the mirror. His biggest problem is he didn't give enough respect and money to those who really run the country. No matter who runs the country it still going to be the same old politics for the masses. The people who run the place will still be stepping on the masses and masses wouldn't even know it because they are use to it. That is their democracy in Thailand. For us Farangs we can't do a damn thing about it except to just go with the flow! What we can control is how much pussy we get and how much you pay for it. Life is still good!
LBM
But surely Bunnags et al are above sitting in walled compound surrounded by thugs. The family you described sounded a bit rough-hewn, and anyway, the fact that they intended to 'take over Thailand' through TRT suggests that they did not already control it.
Perhaps you have also met, dined, and weekended with (perhaps even clandestinely prodded) {family names removed}, but lets try to make a distinction between the aristocracy and the social climbing business class.
Opebo, as an aristocrat yourself I can see how you would take umbrage when the aristocracy is lumped in with the striving classes.
Do you have the lineage of some princely house?
Even if you don't I'll still put you in that class of folk who doesn't celebrate Bastille Day.
...I'll still put you in that class of folk who doesn't celebrate Bastille Day.
Thank you so much, Washburn, for your kind compliment. Alas, I only cultivate the aristocratic manner; such cultivation is free, and said manner is the only trapping of aristocracy I can afford.
Lover Boy #2
09-20-08, 08:56
Daddy San,
The APO (Ausserparlamentarische Opposition) was not a political party, so they did not buy votes. That's anyway quite unusual in Germany. I think you mix it up with the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion) . Those were the terrorists / murderers. But they also did not buy votes :) ...
Giotto
PS: Rudi Dutschke, one of the leaders of the APO, was murdered...
Here is an interesting article on SDS leader Rudi the Red and the Baader-Meinhofs;
http://www.aftershockmagazine.com/goldsworthy68.html
http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/BiographieDutschkeRudi_photoDutschkeRudiVersammlung/index.jpg
From PM to (possible) convict:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/09/25/thailand.samak/index.html
Old Thai Hand
09-26-08, 13:55
Watching the King, (who admittedly never smiles) last night on TV receive the new PM and his so-called "new" cabinet, it was quite apparent from the look on his face that he wasn't just bored by the usual thugs, losers, thieves and murders being paraded in front of him, he was downright disgusted.
Chavalit???? yet again??? At the very least, this creaky old war horse should have been forcibly retired, if not worse ages ago.
And, in the "if-it-wasn't-so-horrible-it-would-funny" story of the week, cop killer (oh, I forgot, there were suddenly no witnesses) Chalerm Yoobamrung is the new health minister.
Sad. Very sad.
Old Thai Hand
09-29-08, 01:25
In the previous post, I meant to say "Chalerm Yoobamrung, father of a cop-killer". I should also add that all three of his sons have a reputation for getting in bar brawls, which they always managed to miraculously survive without any sort of police intervention (except for the one incident, when one of of them shot and killed a cop), largely because dear old dad interceded on their behalf.
Great choice for health minister.
M P Lurker
10-05-08, 07:21
How is Mr Soapy Chuwit doing in the Bangkok Gov poll?
I hear he is popular amoung those who don't think he is just a joke.
Hopefully he will deregulate the Soapies somewhat?
I wish he would notice the lack of rubbish bins in BKK and start some improvement.
He could also ease off on the Nana carpark where Girls and LBs just trying to make "ends meet" :D.
I am not really trying to be too serious about this!
How is Mr Soapy Chuwit doing in the Bangkok Gov poll?
I hear he is popular amoung those who don't think he is just a joke.
Hopefully he will deregulate the Soapies somewhat?!
It amazes me that the people don't just vote in someone who wants to clean up the stinking open drains and the flooding streets. Or may be it's a way of life in Bangkok, and nobody cares.
#8 Mr. Chuwit whacked and kicked a reporter the other day, for asking a rude question. He has the best posters around town I think.
#7 Ms. Leena, the only female candidate, fell (or jumped) into an stinking canal one day while campaigning. Sorry there are 2 other obscure female candidates.
#5 Apirak the incumbent appears to be the most popular, and is leading in the poll, even though his records are pretty crappy from what I read. And he's being charged with violating election regulations, and if found guilty and if he wins, there will be a new election. Only in Thailand I guess. And another 2 days of no alcohol sales!
#2 Kriangsak is actually leading in the Bangkok Post poll, and potentially could win.
M P Lurker
10-05-08, 08:09
#2 Kriangsak is actually leading in the Bangkok Post poll, and potentially could win.
He is the only one I never heard of.
He is the only one I never heard of.
He is some economist, academic
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/05/thailand.politics/index.html
Story Highlights:
- Chamlong Srimuang, a leader with PAD, was arrested from a polling booth
- Since August 26, PAD and its supporters have laid siege to Government House
- Police issued arrest warrants against Chamlong and nine other leaders
=====
I'm glad I'd left BKK before the election, funeral, and this crackdown.
Whew...
Seeko
Terry Terrier
10-05-08, 09:24
Britain gets yet another asylum seeker:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4b462be4-6ea2-11dd-a80a-0000779fd18c.html
M P Lurker
10-06-08, 13:45
He is some economist, academic
Dr. "Dan Can Do" (Kriangsak I guess) only came in 4th but well in front of the silly woman who only got 6000 votes or so.
Apirak was clear winner with increased vote over last time it seems (quiet achiever).
Soapy Chuwit got only 3rd.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081007/ts_afp/thailandpoliticsprotest
I thought the circus had left town already?
Jungle Bluebird
10-07-08, 11:03
just arrest those cowboys, Chamlong the old hippy, that fool Sondhi (i have a fair idea on whose payrole he is) and the rest of the gang. Then issue bill, loss of revenue. Should fix them.
Don't really blame the sheep following them though.
JB
Things are obviously getting serious now. I here car sirenes all day, every 10 minutes ...
Anti-government protesters blocked the parliament today, where the new PM gave his initial political statement. The police got involved and fired tear gas into the demonstration. The Nation reports actually about 381 people being injured up to now - that is a huge number. Rumors are around that there are deads, too.
There are also rumors about another pro-goverment demonstration, which also escalated into street fights with the police, tear gas, too.
The PM had to flee the parliament building via a fence and were flown out with a helicopter.
Chavalit resigned. A very surprising move, in my POV, this is one of the worst characters of the Thai politics, but in this case he takes over responsibility for something he is not responsible for and resigns ... no, I don't need to understand that.
The clashes are still ongoing...
Giotto
M P Lurker
10-07-08, 16:57
Chavalit resigned. A very surprising move, in my POV, this is one of the worst characters of the Thai politics, but in this case he takes over responsibility for something he is not responsible for and resigns ... no, I don't need to understand that.
Giotto
As long as we don't have to put up with his ugly face on TV etc.
thaksin gets to hide in england, sets about to confirep001e government land, and creates the london night safari zoo. i can see it now! oh, then he opens several restaurants at the zoo and serves zoo animals for $100 a plate. gotta admire the guy. he is almost as greedy as the wall street financial boys.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/08/politics/politics_30085432.php
For all those who want to be informed - the Nation's take on the events. I especially like the last sentence ... disgusting journalism, in my POV.
What I understand up to now is that this government was obviously eliminated on purpose. This new Thai PM [borther-in-law from Thaksin] was not a bad person. And that is why he wasn't given any chance, right from the beginning.
I was wondering all the time why he called this two arseholes Chavalit and Chalerm into his cabinet. Somchai (PM) is a judge, he is not a politician by profession. He tried something - he immediately called Sondhi (PAD) after he took over the job as PM. One of his first activities - calling Sondhi.
He was dangerous. He was a [relative] honest guy (my POV) in a party of criminals which misuse the governments power (PPP). He had to be removed fast, and that's whats going to happen now.
I did not understand why he asked Chavalit to become Deputy Prime Minister in the beginning. I thought - Oh my god, now we reactivate the Thai mafia to join the government again, as it was for so many years. But today I understand - the [possibly] only reason was the connection between Chavalit and Sondhi - both know each other for years, and are expected to be friends ( to a certain extend ) - Chavalit was the attempt to build a bridge!
This bridge was immediately destroyed from those who don't want peace between the parties in Thailand - and 2 leading PAD members were arrested since Chavalit started talking to the PAD! It's a kind of political sabotage on government level what has happened here. The demonstration followed - and the police had to act - as in all countries of this world, when the parliament is blocked by demonstrators, the police has to act.
What happened here is very serious. We will see Somchai's resignation within the next few days. And then ... nobody knows.
There are some very powerful guys playing games with political power here in Thailand. And they urgently need to be removed. I hope that this time they made some mistakes and left some traces, that they really can be eliminated.
I only can vommit if I think about all this. Disgusting.
Giotto
I feel sick in this country. This country is a shithole ...
After the PAD leaders were arrested it was predictable what would happen. Irressponsible provocateurs like Sondhi and others did not call off the demonstration at the Parliament today, they even organized and supported it. And they knew there would be bloodshed.
The government also knew what would happen. They did not instruct the police to avoid violence, and they did not postpone the parliamentary session.
The responsible persons in the police also knew what would happen, and they had the "free hand" to go for it, from somebody who was willing to take over responsibility. It is very un-thai and very much against all rules of Buddhism what has happened here today. 2 people are dead, 2 other people are very seriously injured (lost their legs), and more than 400 people are injured.
EVERYBODY - PAD, GOVERNMENT, POLICE knew before what would happen today. THEY ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE. They all should be kept responsible for their actions, in front of a Thai court.
Thailand has shown today on what level we can expect political confrontations in the future. We hoped, after the last few months, that the decision makers had stepped forward, at least a bit. But this is not the case. On neither sides.
Idiots everywhere, especially in responsible positions.
Tomorrow - all this hypcrits will tell us that they did not want this development, and that they very very very sorry about what has happened. And exactly those people are responsible for what has happened.
God, please, let it rain brain! Let it rain brain in this country.
Giotto
The PAD are responsible for everything that happens to them. Do not blame the police or the government.
The PAD are "breaking the laws of Thailand" in full view of everyone, they are not allowing the police to do their job.
Therefore, they must take full responsibility. They are law breakers, they need to be brought back into line with the laws of Thailand.
The police action was gentle from what I saw, the PAD trouble maker provocation was disgusting. If you taunt a police girl or man, if you insult them, and you are breaking the law - then expect to get the shit kicked out of you.
You reap what you sow. And the pad are getting what they deserve, finally.
I feel sick in this country. This country is a shithole ...
After the PAD leaders were arrested it was predictable what would happen. Irressponsible provocateurs like Sondhi and others did not call off the demonstration at the Parliament today, they even organized and supported it. And they knew there would be bloodshed.
The government also knew what would happen. They did not instruct the police to avoid violence, and they did not postpone the parliamentary session.
The responsible persons in the police also knew what would happen, and they had the "free hand" to go for it, from somebody who was willing to take over responsibility. It is very un-thai and very much against all rules of Buddhism what has happened here today. 2 people are dead, 2 other people are very seriously injured (lost their legs), and more than 400 people are injured.
EVERYBODY - PAD, GOVERNMENT, POLICE knew before what would happen today. THEY ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE. They all should be kept responsible for their actions, in front of a Thai court.
Thailand has shown today on what level we can expect political confrontations in the future. We hoped, after the last few months, that the decision makers had stepped forward, at least a bit. But this is not the case. On neither sides.
Idiots everywhere, especially in responsible positions.
Tomorrow - all this hypcrits will tell us that they did not want this development, and that they very very very sorry about what has happened. And exactly those people are responsible for what has happened.
God, please, let it rain brain! Let it rain brain in this country.
Giotto
Jungle Bluebird
10-08-08, 03:44
Yes Giotto
for anyone trying to run a business in this country this is just stupid and disgusting.
however this whole episode shows the forces at work here: right from the top to maintain status quo. no change, particular not any empowerment of the poor or worse, change in much preached historical structures.
Thaksin held a mirror in front of the establishment, clearly demonstrating what a corrupt society it is. this has been a very uncomfortable experience and not be repeated.
so called traditionalists are in favor of Sondhi and cohorts, and in public deny his doing, but favor his drive into anarchy.
after all, the more anarchy, the more people driven into the arms of the established order, fantasy.
this - i think - is far more scary then current events. there is a battle looming in this country which may just tear is apart.
JB
I feel sick in this country. This country is a shithole ...
After the PAD leaders were arrested it was predictable what would happen. Irressponsible provocateurs like Sondhi and others did not call off the demonstration at the Parliament today, they even organized and supported it. And they knew there would be bloodshed.
The government also knew what would happen. They did not instruct the police to avoid violence, and they did not postpone the parliamentary session.
The responsible persons in the police also knew what would happen, and they had the "free hand" to go for it, from somebody who was willing to take over responsibility. It is very un-thai and very much against all rules of Buddhism what has happened here today. 2 people are dead, 2 other people are very seriously injured (lost their legs), and more than 400 people are injured.
EVERYBODY - PAD, GOVERNMENT, POLICE knew before what would happen today. THEY ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE. They all should be kept responsible for their actions, in front of a Thai court.
Thailand has shown today on what level we can expect political confrontations in the future. We hoped, after the last few months, that the decision makers had stepped forward, at least a bit. But this is not the case. On neither sides.
Idiots everywhere, especially in responsible positions.
Tomorrow - all this hypcrits will tell us that they did not want this development, and that they very very very sorry about what has happened. And exactly those people are responsible for what has happened.
God, please, let it rain brain! Let it rain brain in this country.
Giotto
LittleBigMan
10-08-08, 04:41
Hell, Sounds like Thailand politics is no different than the United States.
LBM
Three policemen shot by PAD and one impaled by an iron bar.
Disgusting PAD.
Time to "round them all up, put them in a field, and bomb the bastards".
I fully support now the full use of deadly force against all PAD supporters, its time to clean up and get them into cages, where they belong.
Three policemen shot by PAD and one impaled by an iron bar.
...
Easy2007,
I haven't heard anything about that - may be you let us know the source where this information comes from.
"round them all up, put them in a field, and bomb the bastards" ... to write something like that is definifely disgusting.
Giotto
NicFrenchy
10-09-08, 06:27
Easy2007,
I haven't heard anything about that - may be you let us know the source where this information comes from.
I also read this in the Bangkok Post "breaking News" section Online.
The cop was not impaled, he was injured by the sharp end of a pole.
As for my political opinions of this country, I prefer to keep them for myself... writing them here (or anywhere for that matter) could be dangerous. Don't forget you are not so anonymous on the internet and if need be they can tract you down pretty accurately.
Lover Boy #2
10-09-08, 08:05
Don't forget you are not so anonymous on the internet and if need be they can tract you down pretty accurately.
Yes, Jackson can tell where a post comes from (IP track)...along with some other address maybe (like a mac address and Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol)......but how can the (Gov't) in Thailand ip search or track back to who posted to this site at any given time? Between routers, proxies and other issues....it would be very difficult without the help of the site owner...and Thailand is not where Jackson operates his server from....so it would have to be an international warrant. It would be very difficult to log an old comment on a site...and I would venture to say impossible given the abilities of Thai police and their computer issues. In a EU situation it would be relatively simple to track ip....but there are certain other technologies in place. I don't think "they" can track you down...so don't worry too much....unless Jackson would help them...and he won't unless you have done something against humanity.
(If you are super concerned and want to post some political info that is not available elsewhere...use an anonymous proxy server...this will mask your isp)
Normad2020
10-09-08, 08:10
My friends and I are in a spot. We have booked our passage next week for one of our friend "end of bachelorhood party" in Bangkok. We would like to know whether the areas around Sukhumvit (we are staying at Majestic Grande) and the tourists places such as Grand Palace are calm or are these places in turmoil as what we have seen around the Parliament area?
Hope for some feedback from brothers who are now in Bangkok. Thanks in advance.
Cheers
normad2020
We would like to know whether the areas around Sukhumvit (we are staying at Majestic Grande) and the tourists places such as Grand Palace are calm or are these places in turmoil as what we have seen around the Parliament area?I don't know about sightseeing tourist spots, but sex tourists should be fine on Sukhumvit, around NEP at least. Here it's pussy, er business, as usual. In fact the offerings seem better than last year due to the lack of farang, partly because of the financial psunami and negative news reports re local protests that are keeping foreigners away from BKK.
Three policemen shot by PAD and one impaled by an iron bar.
Disgusting PAD.
Time to "round them all up, put them in a field, and bomb the bastards".
I fully support now the full use of deadly force against all PAD supporters, its time to clean up and get them into cages, where they belong.
Excuse me for saying so, but there is something rather amusing about a gentleman who patronizes prostitution sympathizing with the police. Or perhaps you do not share our hobby, but are visiting us for some other reason?
Never trust a cop, my friends, never trust a cop. They are the monger's enemy (along with everyone else).
Muutseeker
10-09-08, 11:00
My friends and I are in a spot. We have booked our passage next week for one of our friend "end of bachelorhood party" in Bangkok. We would like to know whether the areas around Sukhumvit (we are staying at Majestic Grande) and the tourists places such as Grand Palace are calm or are these places in turmoil as what we have seen around the Parliament area?
Hope for some feedback from brothers who are now in Bangkok. Thanks in advance.
Cheers
normad2020Bro, I am here now and it is business as usual. Have been here on and off for the past five months and have never noticed a thing.come and spend your money, the thai people deserve it. The actual scene of the ruckus is a long way out and it would be hard to imagine anything that would ever effect Sukhumvit. I was also here during the last coup and we partied all night.
Enjoy
Jungle Bluebird
10-09-08, 12:06
Not to worry.
Media needs to sell ads, so any chance to portrait Thailand as a country in turmoil is taken.
What you see on BBC etc are just a few clowns. 10 million BKK Thais just live their lives as usual.
No need to worry. Thailand is still a great place to visit.
JB
My friends and I are in a spot. We have booked our passage next week for one of our friend "end of bachelorhood party" in Bangkok. We would like to know whether the areas around Sukhumvit (we are staying at Majestic Grande) and the tourists places such as Grand Palace are calm or are these places in turmoil as what we have seen around the Parliament area?
Hope for some feedback from brothers who are now in Bangkok. Thanks in advance.
Cheers
normad2020
Easy2007,
I haven't heard anything about that - may be you let us know the source where this information comes from.
"round them all up, put them in a field, and bomb the bastards" ... to write something like that is definifely disgusting.
GiottoGiotto, obviously you have been missing out on excellent British humour in the past, now who can post who was always saying this "round them up" quote?
Excuse me for saying so, but there is something rather amusing about a gentleman who patronizes prostitution sympathizing with the police. Or perhaps you do not share our hobby, but are visiting us for some other reason?
Never trust a cop, my friends, never trust a cop. They are the monger's enemy (along with everyone else).The cops run prostitution, I would guess 90% use it in some way, shape or form.
This is not the USA or Euroland, it is because of the police here that prostitution can survive openly, cause actually its illegal in Thailand. So do not bemoan the people who allow it all to happen.
As to never trusting a cop, never trust anyone, thats more simple, and probably more effective.
The cops run prostitution, I would guess 90% use it in some way, shape or form.
This is not the USA or Euroland, it is because of the police here that prostitution can survive openly, cause actually its illegal in Thailand. So do not bemoan the people who allow it all to happen.
I suppose you are right, though I would add the caveat that the military may be somewhat behind it as well (or so I hear).
But this is another argument that we mongermen should oppose Thaksin-parties and all democratization, since it is the old fashioned military/police/elite rule that allows our hobby to survive. Democratic regimes reflect the will of the people on unimportant window dressing matters such as prostitution, and lord knows most of the people in Thailand (just like anywhere else) hate us and our ladies, and heartily disapprove of prostitution and easy sex in general.
Not that I'm saying who we 'support' or 'oppose' has the slightest effect on anything, I'm just saying I can't figure out why you (or any other mongerman) would prefer Thaksin's side.
Whilst I enjoy mongering, I would not obviously be upset if economic conditions improve in general, and the country itself gets better, which it was under Thaksin, finally the corrupt old Bangkokians had the snouts taken out of the trough (which is what made them so unhappy) and money was spent on developing things for the rural poor. So along come some fantasy charges and a solid media spin campaign, the PAD supported by those who were not allowed to feed at the trough anymore, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Now, in your opinion you would like to see world financial implosion, as then 90% of women worldwide would sell their pussy for a slice of bread - well that is one view, however whilst I enjoy it, I do not bemoan people having a chance at a better life.
Perhaps I am an Eco-Mongerer, one who wants things to improve people in general, whilst enjoying the fruits of it not happening so far.
I suppose you are right, though I would add the caveat that the military may be somewhat behind it as well (or so I hear).
But this is another argument that we mongermen should oppose Thaksin-parties and all democratization, since it is the old fashioned military/police/elite rule that allows our hobby to survive. Democratic regimes reflect the will of the people on unimportant window dressing matters such as prostitution, and lord knows most of the people in Thailand (just like anywhere else) hate us and our ladies, and heartily disapprove of prostitution and easy sex in general.
Not that I'm saying who we 'support' or 'oppose' has the slightest effect on anything, I'm just saying I can't figure out why you (or any other mongerman) would prefer Thaksin's side.
I also read this in the Bangkok Post "breaking News" section Online.
...
NicFrenchy,
I checked the breaking news of the last two days, and I couldn't find anything about policemen being shot. I think the government would seriously play such an incident in the press to put pressure on the PAD...
Giotto
...if economic conditions improve in general, and the country itself gets better, which it was under Thaksin...
I have to say that even leaving the sad demise of our hobby aside, I have deplored every change in Thailand since 2000 or so (when I first arrived). When I first came here everything was so very cheap, and abandoned buildings lay on every side. Since then all sorts of hideous new crap has been built, with the bad new frequently displacing the charming old. Crap fast food replaces ancient, filthy curry houses; hotels with polished lobbies and 1,000 baht price tags replace dingy old dives where one could stay for a couple hundred baht.
Just the other day I was noticing, whilst traveling, how depressingly orderly were the bus stations nowadays. In Mukdahan's bus station I could not find a proper, traditionally made Cha Yen (Thai Iced Tea), for the life of me. Just the horrible products found in convenience stores. Sometimes you can't even find a Coke in a bag anymore! Can you imagine - Thailand without Cokes in bags, Cha Yen, elephant beggars, or prostitutes on the streets. What the hell would be the point? That was what Thaksin was bringing us to, and had he fully succeded I'd be typing this from the American middle-west.
That said, the entire Keynesian system has now been undermined by you-know-who, and the whole world is about to get as poor as Thailand was in 1999.
NicFrenchy
10-10-08, 10:22
NicFrenchy,
I checked the breaking news of the last two days, and I couldn't find anything about policemen being shot. I think the government would seriously play such an incident in the press to put pressure on the PAD...
Giotto
BREAKING NEWS
437 injured from Tuesday riot
Dissolution case against PPP sent to Constitution Court
PM promises 'independent' investigations
Six of nine top PAD leaders surrender to police
24 university students die as bus overturns
Asian stocks follow Dow down, Nikkei below 9,000
Wall Street tumbles again, Dow drops below 9,000
Chamlong, Chaiwat to get on PAD stage after release
Court grants bail to Chamlong, Chaiwat
Academics in black condemn police actions
China milk scandal 'can help Thai exports'
(BangkokPost.com) - Narenthorn Centre reported that a total of 437 people were injured during the clashes between the police and protesters led by the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) on Tuesday in front of the parliament, the Metropolitan Police Bureau and around the Equestrian Statue of King Chulalongkorn the Great near Ratchadamnern Nok Road.
73 of the wounded were still in hospitals.
According to Vachira Hospital director Chaiwan Charoenchoketawee, 14 policemen who were involved in the crowd dispersal had been admitted to the hospital, and all three officers who were shot in the parliament were in safe conditions.
Md Chaiwan said Thanya Khunkaew, a PAD supporter who was amputated, was recovering but his condition was still worrying.
NicFrenchy,
I checked the breaking news of the last two days, and I couldn't find anything about policemen being shot. I think the government would seriously play such an incident in the press to put pressure on the PAD.
GiottoThe PRESS is under the control (by order that you if you want an easy life, don't mess with us) of the PAD supporters, and so you will see nothing about this, just the odd casual mention.
Meanwhile, you will see all sorts of rubbish about the "poor PAD" and how it was all wrong.
Perhaps more people can now appreciate why Thaksin did a runner, faced with potentially a justice system that is well, you make of it what you will.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=131273
Arrest warrants on 3 charges of PAD leaders lifted
(BangkokPost.com) - The Court of Appeals on Thursday morning ruled to revoke the arrest warrants of nine core members of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) on three charges of treason, conspiracy for inciting treason, and disobeying to disperse when ordered by law enforcement authorities.
The nine members include Sondhi Limthongkul, Chamlong Srimuang, Piphob Dhongchai, Somsak Kosaikul, Somkiat Pongpaiboon, Suriyasai Katasila, Chaiwat Sinsuwong, Amorn Amornrattananont and Therdphum Jaidee.
The court decided to lift their arrest warrants on the three charges because it considered the allegations as groundless.
************************************
Did you notice these lines in particular "and disobeying to disperse when ordered by law enforcement authorities" PLUS "because it considered the allegations as groundless. "
Now, for anyone reading about it, watching it live or on TV perhaps you have seen now for months the PAD "disobeying to disperse when ordered by law enforcement authorities". They are guilty of this, and its there for all to see. BUT this was considered "groundless" by the appeals court.
So. What do you make of that?
Can someone please explain to me how the PAD has disobeyed the many times its been ordered to disperse and yet an accusation of such is considered "groundless".
In view of that, perhaps it possible to see why Thaksin did a runner. Perhaps the justice system is. Well. You know.
Normad2020
10-10-08, 15:19
Thanks friends for the assurance that Bangkok (especially Sukhumvit area) is still "business as usual". We will be there soon and will have one hell of a bachelor party before another "horse" goes to the paddock...:-)
Cheers
normad2020
Terry Terrier
10-10-08, 23:10
Where did the democracy bit come from? Oh, I forgot. TIT.
Where did the democracy bit come from? Oh, I forgot. TIT.Yes, it should be the "CPAFMDAWAKOSITTFOTPM"
"Certain Peoples Alliance For Military Dictatorship And We All Keep Our Snouts In The Trough Feeding On The Peoples Money"
But you cannot fool dumb Bangkokians with that, so best to follow the Communist example. "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea". Yeah. Very "Democratic".
Peoples Alliance for Democracy. Which is trying to over turn election results and over turn Democracy.
Same Same. Anyone who supports the PAD is a complete, utter idiot, that is very simple for anyone to see.
Lover Boy #2
10-11-08, 05:47
perhaps more people can now appreciate why thaksin did a runner, faced with potentially a justice system that is well, you make of it what you will.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=131273
arrest warrants on 3 charges of pad leaders lifted
(bangkokpost.com) - the court of appeals on thursday morning ruled to revoke the arrest warrants of nine core members of the people’s alliance for democracy (pad) on three charges of treason, conspiracy for inciting treason, and disobeying to disperse when ordered by law enforcement authorities.
the nine members include sondhi limthongkul, chamlong srimuang, piphob dhongchai, somsak kosaikul, somkiat pongpaiboon, suriyasai katasila, chaiwat sinsuwong, amorn amornrattananont and therdphum jaidee.
the court decided to lift their arrest warrants on the three charges because it considered the allegations as groundless.
************************************
did you notice these lines in particular "and disobeying to disperse when ordered by law enforcement authorities" plus "because it considered the allegations as groundless. "
now, for anyone reading about it, watching it live or on tv perhaps you have seen now for months the pad "disobeying to disperse when ordered by law enforcement authorities". they are guilty of this, and its there for all to see. but this was considered "groundless" by the appeals court.
so. what do you make of that?
can someone please explain to me how the pad has disobeyed the many times its been ordered to disperse and yet an accusation of such is considered "groundless".
in view of that, perhaps it possible to see why thaksin did a runner. perhaps the justice system is. well. you know.
maybe the court system is looking a bit like a democracy in that they are allowing demonstrations which are a part of free speech and the right to gather. in myanmar the demonstrators would be shot...is this better? i'm not supporting anyone.....but i think thaksin did a runner because he is a tax criminal at least....the transaction he did with ais was criminal.
maybe the court system is looking a bit like a democracy in that they are allowing demonstrations which are a part of free speech and the right to gather. in myanmar the demonstrators would be shot...is this better? i'm not supporting anyone.....but i think thaksin did a runner because he is a tax criminal at least....the transaction he did with ais was criminal.this is where many people "assume" wrongly. it is legal to demonstrate, it is illegal to block access to public roads and public places with said demonstration.
the pad has blocked access to public roads and refused to disperse. guilty.
in regards to ais and tax, ask anyone in the know and they will say that what he did was immoral perhaps, but not illegal, he utilised tax loopholes to evade tax, that is all.
the pad and the spin merchants tried to portray that as illegal, it was not.
This is where many people "assume" wrongly. It is legal to demonstrate, IT IS ILLEGAL to block access to public roads and public places with said demonstration.
The PAD has blocked access to public roads and refused to disperse. Guilty.
In regards to AIS and tax, ask anyone in the know and they will say that what he did was immoral perhaps, but not illegal, he utilised tax loopholes to evade tax, that is all.
The PAD and the spin merchants tried to portray that as illegal, it was not.
Concur.
I also heard that Thaksin's primary opposition leader back then was his ex-business partner. Huh, so that explains all the televised rallies to oust Tksn. I think, the other dude was pissed at not getting his share of the billion dollar deals. Probably, the same reason can apply to all the coup leaders and PAD. They want their piece of the pie.
Too bad it all backfired as Thai economy started declining.
Terry Terrier
10-11-08, 22:06
Interesting take on the current situation in Bangers by the BBC's man on the ground, Jonathan Head:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7664064.stm
Lover Boy #2
10-12-08, 10:48
This is where many people "assume" wrongly. It is legal to demonstrate, IT IS ILLEGAL to block access to public roads and public places with said demonstration.
The PAD has blocked access to public roads and refused to disperse. Guilty.
In regards to AIS and tax, ask anyone in the know and they will say that what he did was immoral perhaps, but not illegal, he utilised tax loopholes to evade tax, that is all.
The PAD and the spin merchants tried to portray that as illegal, it was not.
Watch this video my friend.......end the bullshite.....the police in Thailand are assholes, have been assholes and will be assholes. Your arguments are interesting...but the fact remains that these are the same corrupt douche bags that were police buddies with Thaksin. There are ways to handle situations like these......Thai police and military don't have a clue. This is a shame, because as people see this...the tourist situation will get worse...and the poor will suffer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KScGC2WO7oQ
It's not even polite to be arguing about AIS and that English football fan at times like this.....so I won't.
watch this video my friend.......end the bullshite.....the police in thailand are assholes, have been assholes and will be assholes. your arguments are interesting...but the fact remains that these are the same corrupt douche bags that were police buddies with thaksin. there are ways to handle situations like these......thai police and military don't have a clue. this is a shame, because as people see this...the tourist situation will get worse...and the poor will suffer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kscgc2wo7oq
it's not even polite to be arguing about ais and that english football fan at times like this.....so i won't.i like the police in thailand, i love to see assholes get beat up, shot and generally treated the way they should be treated. as opposed to the pathetic nicely nicely way such assholes get treated in the us and euroland.
i have never had a problems with a policeman in 20 years in thailand, never once. if you get caught speeding the nice officer takes a few hundred baht and saves me the hassle of paperwork and getting out of the car etc.
if i get any problem with any assholes, then buy them a couple of bottles of whiskey and said asshole will get the shit beaten out of them.
its great. this is the way the police should be. on the side of law abiding people, and kicking the heads in of criminals.
Terry Terrier
10-13-08, 00:26
i like the police in thailand, i love to see assholes get beat up, shot and generally treated the way they should be treated. as opposed to the pathetic nicely nicely way such assholes get treated in the us and euroland.
i have never had a problems with a policeman in 20 years in thailand, never once. if you get caught speeding the nice officer takes a few hundred baht and saves me the hassle of paperwork and getting out of the car etc.
if i get any problem with any assholes, then buy them a couple of bottles of whiskey and said asshole will get the shit beaten out of them.
its great. this is the way the police should be. on the side of law abiding people, and kicking the heads in of criminals.
what about when they are crapping on law-abiding citizens on behalf of law-avoiding criminals who have dropped them considerably more than a couple of bottles of whisky? don't be so stupid as to dig yourself into a big hole over this, easy.
Terry Terrier
10-13-08, 00:30
It's not even polite to be arguing about AIS and that English football fan at times like this.....so I won't.
You did already, here, after the police brutality/PAD rioting:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=799706&postcount=675
For the sake of balance, here's one man's take on what happened in Bangkok on 7 October, 2008:
http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/10/11/what-happened-on-7102008/
What about when they are crapping on law-abiding citizens on behalf of law-avoiding criminals who have dropped them considerably more than a couple of bottles of whisky? Don't be so stupid as to dig yourself into a big hole over this, Easy.Ok, I'd like to see an example of "law abiding citizen" who has been beaten up by the police.
Did not see any law abiding citizens at the recent riots, each one of them was in violation of Thai laws. So none there, so please do show us examples of "law abiding citizens". LOL
For the sake of balance, here's one man's take on what happened in Bangkok on 7 October, 2008:
http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/10/11/what-happened-on-7102008/Nice write up and it represents the troubles in Thailand now. The "big money men" who are behind the PAD, who are feeding them, providing them with entertainment, drinks, food, support, masks, T shirts etc. (yes, did you every wonder where they come from). Are also in control of the media and are being very reckless with totally biased reporting.
In Thailand the Army hate the police, and the police hate the Army. It is a long running fued.
The Army supports the PAD and therefore if the police do anything against the PAD the Army use all their power and contacts to ensure it is viewed in a very bad way, grossly misreported in all the media and the police always end up being the really bad guys.
Remember, the media was the main tool used to discredit Thaksin, as we discussed earlier, the tax evasion was immoral but not illegal. The media played this up to people as illegal, and so managed to pull off the big demonstrations and to this day some people still think it was illegal, as was posted on there. What wonderful spin.
No. A big thanks for that well written report which shows just what did happen.
Sadly too many people just read the Nation and Bangkok Post and that is their total "view". A view controlled by those in control of the PAD.
Lover Boy #2
10-13-08, 07:30
You did already, here, after the police brutality/PAD rioting:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=799706&postcount=675
I was referring to my post (the one you note) before the severity of the situation became clear to me. It won't happen again.
Lover Boy #2
10-13-08, 07:42
i like the police in thailand, i love to see assholes get beat up, shot and generally treated the way they should be treated. as opposed to the pathetic nicely nicely way such assholes get treated in the us and euroland.
i have never had a problems with a policeman in 20 years in thailand, never once. if you get caught speeding the nice officer takes a few hundred baht and saves me the hassle of paperwork and getting out of the car etc.
if i get any problem with any assholes, then buy them a couple of bottles of whiskey and said asshole will get the shit beaten out of them.
its great. this is the way the police should be. on the side of law abiding people, and kicking the heads in of criminals.
the problem is.....who gets to decide who is law abiding and who is a criminal? i think this all happened before....in germany a few years ago.
(as a side note.....what kind of morons buy tear gas grenades from russia that have a high explosive component charge to control the movements of civilians?....welcome to the thailand police. firing this type of projectile against civilain citizens is criminal in my opinion...in and of itself. this is civil disobedience....not war.)
...
The "big money men" who are behind the PAD, who are feeding them, providing them with entertainment, drinks, food, support, masks, T shirts etc. (yes, did you every wonder where they come from). Are also in control of the media and are being very reckless with totally biased reporting.
...
What a nonsense! Most of the wonnabe "big money men" support the PPP. The country is much better controlable using the voters from the North-East.
The really powerful "money" families are up to now not involved at all.
Now it gets interesting:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/14/politics/politics_30085987.php
A few more days, and this cabinet will be history. But it is possible that Somchai stays ...
Giotto
Terry Terrier
10-13-08, 23:39
The country is much better controlable using the voters from the North-East.
And it's even better controllable using a non-democratic electoral college system, isn't it?
btw, on that YouTube vid that Lover Boy 2 posted, did anyone else notice the razor wire street barricades? And what about that fixed podium with the superb sound system that the PAD leaders were using? Hardly the actions of a gang of hippies on a day trip, no?
And it's even better controllable using a non-democratic electoral college system, isn't it?
btw, on that YouTube vid that Lover Boy 2 posted, did anyone else notice the razor wire street barricades? And what about that fixed podium with the superb sound system that the PAD leaders were using? Hardly the actions of a gang of hippies on a day trip, no?Food, drink, T shirts, clappers, nice stage, full ASTV coverage live 24 hours a day, superb sound system, barricades, guns, knives, "Army" training in self defence classes and much more. Who is supplying it?
These are supposed to be "Middle Class Thais". WELL WHY ARE THEY NOT WORKING? Have they no jobs? Can they sit months at PAD sites with no income? Or are they being "paid" for their efforts.
The PAD is supported by the "old money", the old money that has run Thailand with massive levels of corruption for decades. The old money who really got pissed off when Thaksin came to power and stopped their ability to feed from the trough of tax payer money.
If the foreign media concentrates on where the PAD money is coming from, it will find the route of the evil.
Lets hope they do, as the Thai media is fully supportive of the PAD, by order.
Lover Boy #2
10-14-08, 07:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxCFELLCdmc
Here is another video.....seems to show the madness of the situation.....on both sides. By the way, I do not support anyone in this....I am not Thai....but a stable government in the country where I own a condo, a car, have a ltr....... and own small business would be nice.
If you see the part where the guys' leg is blown off......no one tries to place a belt around the wound to stop the bleeding. They just leave the guy in the dirt......what a fucking heart from all these Buddhists!
The PAD guys don't seem all that well organized as Terry might suggest. They look like a bunch of kids getting their asses kicked.....running around with clubs, slingshots...and yes...even a few handguns.
From the comments of Easy2007, it seems that he likes to use a criminal police force to do his bidding. The problem is that when you use criminals, you become a criminal yourself. I too have never had any personal problems with the Thai Police. But, I can see from their daily activity that they are criminals who use the law and their position to commit criminal acts.
And it's even better controllable using a non-democratic electoral college system, isn't it?
...Yes, it is...it would be.
Luckily this stupid idea is off the tables.
Giotto
Food, drink, T shirts, clappers, nice stage, full ASTV coverage live 24 hours a day, superb sound system, barricades, guns, knives, "Army" training in self defence classes and much more. Who is supplying it?
Oh my god, more nonsense.
All those mentioned support is really not that expensive here in Thailand...and of course some PAD members have money and money friends in the background. But there is no general support at all.
These are supposed to be "Middle Class Thais". WELL WHY ARE THEY NOT WORKING? Have they no jobs? Can they sit months at PAD sites with no income? Or are they being "paid" for their efforts.
Wrong! The middle class in Bangkok is NOT supporting the PAD (of course exceptions), the middle class is pissed off because of blocked roads, traffic problems and the impact of all that nonsense on their business!
The PAD is supported by the "old money", the old money that has run Thailand with massive levels of corruption for decades. The old money who really got pissed off when Thaksin came to power and stopped their ability to feed from the trough of tax payer money.
There was of course a lot of corruption already before the Thaksin area, but this man topped everything! And the same game is still ongoing - look at the actual cabinet and the way the members were selected. Each group / faction / local organization of the PPP got a specific contingent of cabinet members. It was not about competence, it was about influence, power - to provide the ability for PPP politicians to enrich yourself using the position you get. That might be a phenomenon in many governments of the world, but Thailand definitely plays in the worlds premier league of this disciplin.
If the foreign media concentrates on where the PAD money is coming from, it will find the route of the evil.
Lets hope they do, as the Thai media is fully supportive of the PAD, by order.That's nonsense, too. The Thai media is carefully commenting, but they are definitely not "fully supportive" for the PAD. You can read critical voices about the PAD activities nearly every day.
Giotto
Giotto,
You are clearly blinded by your business needs, perhaps you should get back to promoting the Lodge and give politics a miss.
Its clearly not your area of expertise, and you appear as biased as they come, one wonders if your bias comes from a need for continued "local" support for your business enterprise?
Lets therefore not answer each others posts and ignore each other, otherwise I will start to think that your "business partners" have a vested interest in. Well, events political.
Oh my god, more nonsense.
All those mentioned support is really not that expensive here in Thailand...and of course some PAD members have money and money friends in the background. But there is no general support at all.
Wrong! The middle class in Bangkok is NOT supporting the PAD (of course exceptions), the middle class is pissed off because of blocked roads, traffic problems and the impact of all that nonsense on their business!
There was of course a lot of corruption already before the Thaksin area, but this man topped everything! And the same game is still ongoing - look at the actual cabinet and the way the members were selected. Each group / faction / local organization of the PPP got a specific contingent of cabinet members. It was not about competence, it was about influence, power - to provide the ability for PPP politicians to enrich yourself using the position you get. That might be a phenomenon in many governments of the world, but Thailand definitely plays in the worlds premier league of this disciplin.
That's nonsense, too. The Thai media is carefully commenting, but they are definitely not "fully supportive" for the PAD. You can read critical voices about the PAD activities nearly every day.
Giotto
Giotto,
You are clearly blinded by your business needs, perhaps you should get back to promoting the Lodge and give politics a miss.
Its clearly not your area of expertise, and you appear as biased as they come, one wonders if your bias comes from a need for continued "local" support for your business enterprise?
Lets therefore not answer each others posts and ignore each other, otherwise I will start to think that your "business partners" have a vested interest in. Well, events political.Easy2007,
I don't think that anything of this political debate has something to do with my business needs. Whether politics is my area of expertise or not - I know when I read nonsense, and most of what you write is nonsense. It is factually wrong!
If there are reports simplifying the political situation here in Thailand then this are your reports. You are obviously blind on one eye. This is not a "black or white" situation, in which one side is right and the other side is wrong - this is clearly a grey-zone, in which all parties make mistakes and all parties have to move to solve the problems.
Whatever you "start to think" about me and my "business partners" (whoever that might be) - I don't give a shit. To only write this is again a simple hypothesis, unproven, no facts behind that at all. And it has nothing to do with this discussion, just provocation and desinformation.
I write my opinion based on what I hear, what I read and what I see.
Giotto
Terry Terrier
10-15-08, 08:03
Yes, it is...it would be.
Luckily this stupid idea is off the tables.
Giotto
It's very much on the PAD's table.
Lover Boy #2
10-15-08, 09:27
Giotto,
You are clearly blinded by your business needs, perhaps you should get back to promoting the Lodge and give politics a miss.
Its clearly not your area of expertise, and you appear as biased as they come, one wonders if your bias comes from a need for continued "local" support for your business enterprise?
Lets therefore not answer each others posts and ignore each other, otherwise I will start to think that your "business partners" have a vested interest in. Well, events political.
Typical gangster provocation......you don't like the message, so attack the messenger. Your attack on Giotto (who I don't know at all other than reading his posts) are at best immature. To make allegations of his business partners is a very low down move......and you without any information to back up your claim. Your argument as to PAD is no longer valid, as you have chosen a very low road to journey.
It's very much on the PAD's table.I have no idea, where all you people get your information from.
It is correct that the PAD brought up the issue to "select" 70 % of the MPs (they did not give any info WHO should select them) and only elect 30 % . That came up at least 3 month ago and was afterwards commented several times from PAD leaders as "strange" and not political target of the PAD.
The PAD is actually in a process of defining what they call a program of "new politics". This process is still ongoing, and we don't know the outcome yet:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=30085000
Some more information why the discussion about changing the electoral system could even lead to the wrong direction can be found here:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=30084615
Here a readers comment (Bangkok Post, September 2008) which describes to a certain extend what the PAD might discuss internally:
...
some typical western reactions here but the reality is you can't have a 'fair and square' election in a country where the votes of an entire village can be bought by paying the village headman 7000 baht.
...
...
thailand needs to go back to its earliest constitutions, which recognised that political representation here should include not just elected officials but also appointed experts.
the two extremes--all-electoral vs all-appointed--are obviously open to abuse, so the most functional for thailand may be something in-between.
...
Giotto
More "truth".
Do not let the biased people rule the roost, the PAD are causing all the problems, they have committed crimes, they are trouble makers, they are the root of all the evil.
A good site, for "true" reporting, non biased coverage on Bangkok events.
http://facthai.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/giles-on-bangkok-protests/
Terry Terrier
10-15-08, 22:27
I have no idea, where all you people get your information from.
It is correct that the PAD brought up the issue to "select" 70 % of the MPs (they did not give any info WHO should select them) and only elect 30 % . That came up at least 3 month ago and was afterwards commented several times from PAD leaders as "strange" and not political target of the PAD.
The PAD is actually in a process of defining what they call a program of "new politics". This process is still ongoing, and we don't know the outcome yet:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=30085000
Some more information why the discussion about changing the electoral system could even lead to the wrong direction can be found here:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=30084615
Here a readers comment (Bangkok Post, September 2008) which describes to a certain extend what the PAD might discuss internally:
...
some typical western reactions here but the reality is you can't have a 'fair and square' election in a country where the votes of an entire village can be bought by paying the village headman 7000 baht.
...
...
thailand needs to go back to its earliest constitutions, which recognised that political representation here should include not just elected officials but also appointed experts.
the two extremes--all-electoral vs all-appointed--are obviously open to abuse, so the most functional for thailand may be something in-between.
...
Giotto
My past posts on here about Thaksin make it clear that I'm no fan of his. But there's a very important reason why his political movement enjoys such huge support among the rural poor. Talk to people from these areas, and you will find that they like Thaksin's lot because they are the only major political movement that has ever done anything tangible and substantial for them.
You would have thought that the Opposition would have picked up on these winning policies and adapted them to their own style (as opposition parties do everywhere else in the World: It's called political modernising). But no, not in Thailand! Best way to deal with it, of course (!!!), is to take the voting power away from the masses and hand it back to the elite.
Thailand, a new way of democracy: Go back to the old undemocratic way and return to the old status quo :D.
NicFrenchy
10-16-08, 00:51
Do not let the biased people rule the roost, the PAD are causing all the problems, they have committed crimes, they are trouble makers, they are the root of all the evil.
You're talking out of your ass. Read a little bit more and you'll see Thaksin actually did commit the crimes (murders) as opposed to the PAD.
My past posts on here about Thaksin make it clear that I'm no fan of his. But there's a very important reason why his political movement enjoys such huge support among the rural poor. Talk to people from these areas, and you will find that they like Thaksin's lot because they are the only major political movement that has ever done anything tangible and substantial for them
Oh really? what have they done? Free healthcare! now, if you know Thailand so well, who do you think will pay for this? Certainly not the government. I believe the PAD is not unaware of the astronomical costs Thaksin's political decisions will have adn that is what they are opposing. They could make things simple and dig into the Thousands he murdered but, they were low class adn in thailand, unfortunately, the Low class does not exist.
You're talking out of your ass. Read a little bit more and you'll see Thaksin actually did commit the crimes (murders) as opposed to the PAD.
Oh really? what have they done? Free healthcare! now, if you know Thailand so well, who do you think will pay for this? Certainly not the government. I believe the PAD is not unaware of the astronomical costs Thaksin's political decisions will have adn that is what they are opposing. They could make things simple and dig into the Thousands he murdered but, they were low class adn in thailand, unfortunately, the Low class does not exist.Ok, please advise who Thaksin murdered, and how he did it - you seem to have made an accusation that even the Thai judiciary would not do, so please detail this.
The people pay for it, from their taxes.
Thailand before the TRT, all the peoples taxes were mostly siphoned off into the rich ruling elites pockets.
Thaksin changed that, he cut their easy money and distributed this money back to the people paying the tax.
This was the most fair Thailand had been for decades, and why it upset the Bangkok "elite" who are now the ones behind the PAD, and why they had to get rid of Thaksin.
One thing is for sure, 20 years ago things were a damn site worse for the poor, than they are now. And that change only happened recently with the advent of the TRT.
Please write down your experiences of 20 years ago, 15, 10, 5 and now, and lets compare notes.
More "truth".
Do not let the biased people rule the roost, the PAD are causing all the problems, they have committed crimes, they are trouble makers, they are the root of all the evil.
A good site, for "true" reporting, non biased coverage on Bangkok events.
http://facthai.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/giles-on-bangkok-protests/LOL,
"non biased coverage" such as:
Since late evening on the 6th October 2008, the ultra right-wing fascist mob which calls itself the “Peoples Alliance for Democracy” (PAD) laid plans to lay siege to the Thai parliament.
Giotto
...
You would have thought that the Opposition would have picked up on these winning policies and adapted them to their own style (as opposition parties do everywhere else in the World: It's called political modernising). But no, not in Thailand! Best way to deal with it, of course (!!!), is to take the voting power away from the masses and hand it back to the elite.
Thailand, a new way of democracy: Go back to the old undemocratic way and return to the old status quo :D.Terry Terrier,
I understand your POV, but:
Whether Thaksin did a lot for the rural areas is highly questionable. But - he used his power and access to the media (during his time he nearly dictated the news) to sell the little bit he did as something huge. His main plan for developing rural areas with which he won the elections (THB 1 Mio. for each village) was slightly modified after he won the elections (he found out that Thailand simply had not enough money to implement such a program) - it was then suddenly a loan, a village could get - and that kind of loan a village could already get before the Thaksin era.
If you now talk about the opposition not picking up some of Thaksin's methods in regards of the North East ... there are 2 issues to be mentioned:
1) The PAD is NOT the opposition, not even a political party! They are supported by some members / MPs / voters of the Democratic Party, but basically this is a completely separate movement. Most members of the Democratic Party DO NOT support the political targets of the PAD.
2) The Democratic Party has completely changed their concept for the North East and increased their presence there. Offices, representatives, meetings etc. everywhere. The adapted parts of the populistic concept of the TTT, and it is their declared target to increase the number of voters for their party in the elections to come.
It is too easy to understand this ongoing political crisis as a simple two-party confrontation. There are more parties and factions involved: The PPP backed government, the PAD, the opposition (Democrats), the Army, the old Aristocracy, the powerful family clans etc. .
Giotto
You're talking out of your ass. Read a little bit more and you'll see Thaksin actually did commit the crimes (murders) as opposed to the PAD.
Oh really? what have they done? Free healthcare! now, if you know Thailand so well, who do you think will pay for this? Certainly not the government. I believe the PAD is not unaware of the astronomical costs Thaksin's political decisions will have adn that is what they are opposing. They could make things simple and dig into the Thousands he murdered but, they were low class adn in thailand, unfortunately, the Low class does not exist.Well, you really do not know anything about Thailand do you ? Please comment on what was going on 20 years ago, 15, 10, 5 and now.
Please inform us all who was "murdered" by Thaksin ?
The majority of the people of Thailand have consistently voted for Thaksin, and continue to do so. He has done things the people want.
This is not want the Bangkok elite want, its what the people want, and why the people love him.
You clearly know nothing - do you spend say 50% of your time out in the south and north and east or west ? Or are you just "Bangkok" and read the Nation and BKK Post and thats it ?
LOL - some people have no clue - really.
http://news.inbangkok.org/
PAD Mob Unleashes Wave of Violence
October 7th, 2008
The PAD mob has started to how its true nature – yesterday, heavily armed mobsters launched a wave of violence in Bangkok and is threatening more.
Three police have been shot by PAD mobsters; a dozen more have been hospitalized after a PAD mobster drove a pickup truck into them. Two or three people (the news is still not clear, to me at least) have lost legs, at least one of them because he had a bomb in his pocket. Police have found hand grenades – it is likely that the people who were injured in the initial clearing of the mob from parliament yesterday morning were injured by PAD owned grenades or bombs – there is no proof of this yet, so far as I can see but it seems the most likely explanation. Police continue to maintain they used only tear gas and the events were covered by the international media and I have seen no meaningful suggestion that they acted improperly. This is from the BBC.
The situation seems to be reasonably calm at the moment. There are troops on the street to protect various locations and it is said that 30 companies more are ready to join them. Army chief General Anupong Paojinda is currently supporting the government – and PM Somchai is remaining calm, in public at least. However, the military is riddled with factions and it is not certain that there will not be yet another coup. At least most of the top military leadership now realize after the disastrous Surayud government that they are simply incapable of running a modern economy.
Presumably the PAD will intensify violence later today in the hope of provoking the coup and ending democracy – which is their stated aim. It is a dangerous time. There are many rumours flying about.
Police Act against PAD Mob
October 7th, 2008
The anti-democracy mob PAD blockaded parliament last night with a view to preventing the democratically-elected government from opening the new session and the convicted criminal Sondhi Limthongkul made another load of demands on behalf of the few thousand thugs who support his disgraceful attempt to bring an end to democracy in Thailand (reports that the demands concluded with ‘moon on a stick’ cannot be confirmed).
This morning, at 6:20, police moved in and used tear gas to disperse the mob and dismantle the illegally-erected barricades. This was to enable a path into and out of parliament for the democratically elected government (and junta cronies in the Senate). As would be expected, the police had to be careful because the PAD mob is known to be heavily armed and has murdered two people already, in addition to numerous beatings and acts of savagery.
A few dozen members of the mob suffered from the usual effects of tear gas – there were reports also that some people were suffering from ‘wounds’ caused by ‘shrapnel’ or ‘powerful explosives.’ The PAD has lied about this kind of issue before so it remains to be seen what truth there is in it or whether it was PAD mobsters who caused the injuries – mobsters are known to have attacked the police headquarters with tear gas of their own. Army chief Anupong Paojinda is said to be releasing a statement on behalf of the army this afternoon – so it’s back to turning on the radio in trepidation of the martial music that denotes yet another coup.
The government, led by PM Somchai Wongsawat, has now completed its duties in the house and made its exit – the PM had to climb over the wall to Vimanmek Mansion. The PAD again besieged parliament and turned off water and electricity, apparently.
Quisling Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva (how long can he keep his job?) has led an unsuccessful boycott of proceedings, bleating about police actions and by no means supporting the rule of law. The Nation, meanwhile, has plumbed new depths of cynical lies – its website proclaims ‘Black October, 2008,’ disgracefully demeaning the memories of hundreds who were killed by the military in 1976 while protesting for democracy, the very same democracy that the PAD mob is trying to end. The Nation is a disgrace. Its editors, if they support this, should be deeply, deeply ashamed of themselves.
Worth reading the full article, but here is a snippet
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7664064.stm
Media quiet
There is little doubt that the police were reckless in the way they moved against the protesters.
But there has been surprisingly little condemnation in the Thai media of the PAD's own tactics: the construction of tyre-and-barbed-wire barricades to blockade MPs inside parliament, the use of guns by some PAD supporters against the police, video showing a PAD truck ploughing into a line of police then reversing over the injured body of one officer.
The protesters' tactics have been subject to little scrutiny.
There has been no attempt by the Thai papers to trace the source of the PAD's very substantial funding, or of the obviously expert paramilitary training given to some its followers.
Terry Terrier
10-16-08, 07:56
Oh really? what have they done? Free healthcare! now, if you know Thailand so well, who do you think will pay for this? Certainly not the government. I believe the PAD is not unaware of the astronomical costs Thaksin's political decisions will have adn that is what they are opposing.
The people who will effectively "pay" for it are the people who have always effectively 'paid' for pretty much everything in Thailand: The masses who do all the country's donkey work on currently 4-8000 baht a month wages. What's the minimum baht for which you'd do a month's work in Thailand Nick?
So the solution is to keep the huge number of poor on shit wages, with no poverty net (however basic), and take the vote away from them to stop them from trying to improve their lot through democracy the same as our poor did in our Western countries all those years ago? Wouldn't it be great if you were picking crops in rural France for 150f (no Euros, of course) a week, and I was coming up out of the ground covered in black soot six evenings a week to get handed fifteen quid for my efforts? Why should working class Thais put up with this in the modern age and with the amount of money sloshing around in their country?
Easy2007, I can't help but think your identification with any particular interest or power group in Thai politics is a bit unrequited: neither side wants you (or any of us). The one topic all the multifarious thugs are united upon is - xenophobia!
(I'm particularly concerned about your intimation that you 'use the police' to 'do your bidding' against some other parties. Is that actually possible for a farang? Is not any interaction with them or appearance upon their radar a terrible danger? Take care brother.)
easy2007, i can't help but think your identification with any particular interest or power group in thai politics is a bit unrequited: neither side wants you (or any of us). the one topic all the multifarious thugs are united upon is - xenophobia!
(i'm particularly concerned about your intimation that you 'use the police' to 'do your bidding' against some other parties. is that actually possible for a farang? is not any interaction with them or appearance upon their radar a terrible danger? take care brother.)opebo,
i've been here 20 years and know many people, including many police. they are fine, they all fuck like us mongers do, they love massage and karoke, they are fine, normal people like the rest of us.
they get paid [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) poor salaries, which is why many allow themselves to become corrupt. but that is advantageous, when you get stopped for speeding, simply hand over a few hundred baht instead of all the hassle of getting out of your car and filling in the forms etc.
no, i have nothing against the police at all. as with any organization there are bad eggs, but thats true of everywhere in the world.
one of my friends did a lot of the work in the "anti drugs" campaign, now while a lot of drug runners and pushers were killed, they had long histories of drug offenses. given the thai system simply puts them in jail until they are freed at the new year, the police get most upset arresting the same peope all the time and then seeing them released again.
extra judicial killings, maybe so, but if that were the case you can be sure that the person involved most likely had a long history of offenses.
right or wrong, a lot of shit was cleaned up, and i can tell you with my own eyes the anti drug campaign of the trt was very very effective.
before you used to see drug pushers everywhere, that all stopped. its also another reason why many rural people love trt and thaksin, before all the kids used to be buying tablets and missing school, once the pushers were killed off or scared off, a lot of families "got their normal children back again".
...
So the solution is to keep the huge number of poor on shit wages, with no poverty net (however basic), and take the vote away from them to stop them from trying to improve their lot through democracy the same as our poor did in our Western countries all those years ago?
...
Pure demagogy! And Western arrogance!
We Westerners know everything better, don't we? Democracy as we know it improves the lifes of the poor - so we simply implement democracy and everything gets better...but this was tried in Thailand for many years now, and there are still so many people which are poor. Some more negative effects popped up - vote buying, construction/financing of parties by the rich, corruption, corruption, corruption ...
What does this demogagy help those poor people you take party for? It is not really important for them whether they have a vote or not, whether they can sell their vote or not - it is important for them that their quality of life improves, that they have jobs, health care, a social network, that they can send their kids to a school! This argumentation is the well-known arrogant argumentation from the functioning western democracies people, farangs - yes, you "democrats" out there know everything better, or course! But - this is Thailand!
Do you really believe that the PAD wants to "take the vote away" from poor people because they are stupid, just for fun? No, this is the PPPs take on the PADs targets, its demagogy! Its what Westerners with a limited mindset and intellect like Easy2007 buy. But - during the development of a country towards democracy it should be allowed to discuss whether it can be helpful to make sure that a part of the parliament contains experts for all areas of social life and political decision making (at least for some time) - and another part of the parliament is freely elected. Does such a system necessarily make a democracy un-democratic?
If you look at the history our Western countries you will find out that it was many times the elite of a country which changed laws, rules, constititutions and administrative systems to the benefit of the poor, sometimes even with illegal means. I am quite sure that we don't find this kind of elite within the PPP. You might find some of Thailands intellectual elite supporting the PAD.
Whether all this works out - I don't know. But I know that the reason why everybody is so careful in dealing with the PAD is that many people know that the PAD is really fighting for the interests/benefits of the poor Thai people - and the PPP is only pretending to do so. This is why the PAD has a lot inofficial support from everywhere - from parts of the army, from parts of the democrats, from parts of the royal family and from parts of the powerful families.
Giotto
...
Right or wrong, a lot of shit was cleaned up, and I can tell you with my own eyes the anti drug campaign of the TRT was very very effective.
...
I have no words for this stupid and ignorant statement. Unbelievable.
The anti drug campaign was definitely "very very effective" for those 2000 over people that were sentenced to death without any court ruling, just shot down with a few grams of drugs in their pockets. This was a kind of legalized murder...nothing else than that.
Giotto
Terry Terrier
10-16-08, 22:56
Pure demagogy! And Western arrogance!
We Westerners know everything better, don't we? Democracy as we know it improves the lifes of the poor - so we simply implement democracy and everything gets better...but this was tried in Thailand for many years now, and there are still so many people which are poor. Some more negative effects popped up - vote buying, construction/financing of parties by the rich, corruption, corruption, corruption ...
What does this demogagy help those poor people you take party for? It is not really important for them whether they have a vote or not, whether they can sell their vote or not - it is important for them that their quality of life improves, that they have jobs, health care, a social network, that they can send their kids to a school! This argumentation is the well-known arrogant argumentation from the functioning western democracies people, farangs - yes, you "democrats" out there know everything better, or course! But - this is Thailand!
Do you really believe that the PAD wants to "take the vote away" from poor people because they are stupid, just for fun? No, this is the PPPs take on the PADs targets, its demagogy! Its what Westerners with a limited mindset and intellect like Easy2007 buy. But - during the development of a country towards democracy it should be allowed to discuss whether it can be helpful to make sure that a part of the parliament contains experts for all areas of social life and political decision making (at least for some time) - and another part of the parliament is freely elected. Does such a system necessarily make a democracy un-democratic?
If you look at the history our Western countries you will find out that it was many times the elite of a country which changed laws, rules, constititutions and administrative systems to the benefit of the poor, sometimes even with illegal means. I am quite sure that we don't find this kind of elite within the PPP. You might find some of Thailands intellectual elite supporting the PAD.
Whether all this works out - I don't know. But I know that the reason why everybody is so careful in dealing with the PAD is that many people know that the PAD is really fighting for the interests/benefits of the poor Thai people - and the PPP is only pretending to do so. This is why the PAD has a lot inofficial support from everywhere - from parts of the army, from parts of the democrats, from parts of the royal family and from parts of the powerful families.
Giotto
Giotto,
This has to rank as the most arrogant post on this thread, if not the whole forum.
Good to see though that you have finally come clean and outed yourself as a PAD supporter.
So now, like the good PAD supporter that you are, you are suggesting that you and your fellow PAD know what's good for the Thai masses better than they know themselves. Despite the bald fact that they keep telling you the opposite in general elections. Can it get any more arrogant than this?
How about your PAD form up a package of candidates and policies for the next (no doubt quite soon) general election, proposing to the people that "It is not really important for them whether they have a vote or not, whether they can sell their vote or not". Also, why not offer them jobs that pay wages that bear some relation to the wealth that their work is creating, why not offer them decent healthcare that they can afford, and as well as just offering them basic schooling why not make higher education more accessible? On the first point, I would bet my entire capital worth on your PAD being on a loser. On the other points, they aint gonna happen because your PAD is only interested in keeping the masses in their place, with just enough education and good health to enable them to work for shit wages and not be able to do a damn thing about it.
Lets clear up all this smoke and mirrors about Thaksin and your PAD once and for all: Thaksin went because he brought the 'wrong' snouts to the trough, and because he encouraged the masses to have more ambitions than having a plate of rice on the table; Your PAD is the latest attempt (the last attempt, the military coup, failed) by the 'right' snouts to get their snouts fully back into the trough and to make sure that those ugly noses will never again be taken away from it by the democratic actions of the masses. And what makes your PAD exponentially worse than the TRT/PPP is their use of their naive Bangkokian street supporters as literal cannon fodder - utterly repugnant, ugh! Just what part do razor wire barricades have to play in a peaceful demonstration? What a result for your PAD: nearly 500 injured (many seriously) and two dead. What a perfect propaganda coup (sic): The PPP and their police friends played right into your PAD's hands. Ugh!!!
Keep promoting your PAD, mr spinmaster. I for one will continue to treat them with the utter contempt that they deserve.
Giotto,
This has to rank as the most arrogant post on this thread, if not the whole forum.
Good to see though that you have finally come clean and outed yourself as a PAD supporter.
So now, like the good PAD supporter that you are, you are suggesting that you and your fellow PAD know what's good for the Thai masses better than they know themselves. Despite the bald fact that they keep telling you the opposite in general elections. Can it get any more arrogant than this?
How about your PAD form up a package of candidates and policies for the next (no doubt quite soon) general election, proposing to the people that "It is not really important for them whether they have a vote or not, whether they can sell their vote or not". Also, why not offer them jobs that pay wages that bear some relation to the wealth that their work is creating, why not offer them decent healthcare that they can afford, and as well as just offering them basic schooling why not make higher education more accessible? On the first point, I would bet my entire capital worth on your PAD being on a loser. On the other points, they aint gonna happen because your PAD is only interested in keeping the masses in their place, with just enough education and good health to enable them to work for shit wages and not be able to do a damn thing about it.
Lets clear up all this smoke and mirrors about Thaksin and your PAD once and for all: Thaksin went because he brought the 'wrong' snouts to the trough, and because he encouraged the masses to have more ambitions than having a plate of rice on the table; Your PAD is the latest attempt (the last attempt, the military coup, failed) by the 'right' snouts to get their snouts fully back into the trough and to make sure that those ugly noses will never again be taken away from it by the democratic actions of the masses. And what makes your PAD exponentially worse than the TRT/PPP is their use of their naive Bangkokian street supporters as literal cannon fodder - utterly repugnant, ugh! Just what part do razor wire barricades have to play in a peaceful demonstration? What a result for your PAD: nearly 500 injured (many seriously) and two dead. What a perfect propaganda coup (sic): The PPP and their police friends played right into your PAD's hands. Ugh!!!
Keep promoting your PAD, mr spinmaster. I for one will continue to treat them with the utter contempt that they deserve.Terry, well said.
I have already put Giotto on to the ignore list, he is so BIASED to the PAD it is sickening, he also likes to insult people with abusive postings, this is all the signs of an arrogant git, and with people like this you can never discuss, they only dictate.
Just like the PAD really, who love dictators.
Ignore the person, life is much simpler.
Worth reading the full article, but here is a snippet
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7664064.stmAnother article notices the "pro PAD BIAS" and the "propaganda being pro PAD".
Its good to see that the world is seeing what is going on, it will make it more hard for those behind this to carry out their evil objectives against the majority of the Thai population who support democracy and the PPP.
Article link below :
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JJ15Ae01.html
Giotto,
This has to rank as the most arrogant post on this thread, if not the whole forum.
Good to see though that you have finally come clean and outed yourself as a PAD supporter.
...
Terry Terrier,
I am by far not a supporter of the PAD, even if you like to put me in that box. I try to analyze and understand the different positions and not only wipe (in the eyes of Westerners) unusual ideas off the table and call them "un-democratic". It's definitely a bit more complicated than it is described here in many reports.
And if this makes me arrogant then I am proud to be arrogant. I then am at least not as ignorant as many people here who simply condemn the PAD and support TRT/PPP ideas. We had this already for years now here in Thailand, and we all can see where the country stands. We have to search for new political ideas to solve the countries problems.
...
How about your PAD form up a package of candidates and policies for the next (no doubt quite soon) general election, proposing to the people that "It is not really important for them whether they have a vote or not, whether they can sell their vote or not".
...This is a perfect example for political demagogy. A part of what I wrote in a complete different context, described as if that were a political target of the PAD. Demagogy. For what?
Go ahead with your provocations. It does not help anybody and also does not clarify anything for the readers of this thread. It only confuses people.
Giotto
Bangkok Post today:
"Abac Poll: Coalition should withdraw support
(BangkokPost.com) - More than half of people questioned in a recent poll conducted by Assumption University wanted the coalition parties to withdraw from the government as a way to show that that the government takes responsibility for the Oct 7 clashes between police and People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) demonstrators.
About 51.2% of respondents want the coalition parties to withdraw from the government while 33.5% want the government to be responsible for all the lives that have been killed or injured in the clashes. Some 30.1% said the best way out is for the government to resign or to dissolve the parliament. Another 25.5% want legal actions against those who ordered the crackdown on protesters. Only 11.1% said there is no need for the government to show any responsibility for the clashes.
On solution to the political turmoil, about 78.9% of respondents have faith in judicial system in order to punish the ones who ordered the crackdown. About 72.2% want a neutral person to be a new premier and want to see a transparent election. Some 63.4% want to have a national government while 62.5% want to see new politics. Another 61.5% said new election is the way out to political deadlock while 57.5% said rewriting the constitution should end turmoil.
More than half of the respondents, or 52.9%, expressed doubts with the government's stance in the dispersal of the protesters last week. About 66.7% of them also said they are stressed about politics.
The survey assessed opinions of 5,598 eligible voters in 18 provinces from Saturday to Thursday."
Giotto
I've been here 20 years and know many people, including many police. They are fine, they all fuck like us mongers do, they love massage and Karoke, they are fine, normal people like the rest of us.
Well, 'normal' people cannot seize, beat, and jail me with impugnity, Easy. And plenty of dangerous, frightening characters like to fuck - that is no affirmation of character. (and btw, there's nothing I hate worse than Kareoke).
Right or wrong, a lot of shit was cleaned up, and I can tell you with my own eyes the anti drug campaign of the TRT was very very effective.
That's a bit unrealistic, no? The police are the drugs suppliers - they were just getting rid of competition. At least that seems the cynical view, which is usually the most accurate in Thailand.
As for 'shit' being 'cleaned up', this is precisely what I dread, as we hedonistic brethren are precisely in every cleaner's sights.
Lastly I would like to inquire how one may remain in Thailand for 20 years? Inheritance? Pension? Because I can't imagine being able to stomach teaching much longer..
Terry, well said.
I have already put Giotto on to the ignore list, he is so BIASED to the PAD it is sickening, he also likes to insult people with abusive postings, this is all the signs of an arrogant git, and with people like this you can never discuss, they only dictate.
Just like the PAD really, who love dictators.
Ignore the person, life is much simpler.Easy2007,
That's a good one.
LOL!
Giotto
PS: Easy2007, am I really on your ignore list because I possibly have a different political opinion? I am sorry about that ... now I am sure that you are the real democrat :) !
Terry Terrier
10-18-08, 00:19
G,
I have pointedly kept the personal stuff out of the debates on this thread. In what way is my flagging up your obvious enthusiasm for the PAD provocative? The only posters name-calling each other are you and Easy 2007.
And the only poster likely to confuse readers of this thread is yourself. You are trying to colour up a very straightforward political situation with 'new type of democracy' and 'new political solutions' argumentation coupled with astonishing condemnation of one-adult-one-vote democracy. The simple fact is that an unelectable opposition is using it's friends in high places to stop a democratically elected government from governing. The PAD were sent in to shut down parliament and paralyse the elected government, in what was always going to be a win-win situation for the opposition: Either parliament gets shut down or there is bloodshed and a resultant propaganda coup for said opposition. This opposition cannot make themselves electable because their masters, the Old Money, will not allow them to: The masses have to be kept as stupid and desperate as is possible in order to keep the profit-margins high.
Thaksin was/is corrupt, no question. But he gave/gives the masses a small piece of the pie and a glimmer of hope. We are starting to get a good idea of his level of corruption only because he was ousted and outed by the Old Money. Did he take corruption to a new level? What are the comparisons? Public discussion of Old Money corruption has always been a potential death sentence in Thailand. Nobody knows how much money was stolen pre-Thaksin. What are the opposition's plans to deal with large-scale corruption? After the Thaksin gang are removed, are they going to take on the powerful factions that have their snouts in the trough (and are currently backing them)? What are their securities and backups for weeding out this corruption once and for all? At best, I see weakness on this most central issue.
Easy,
I hope you don't take this personally, but IMO the 'Ignore' function is for wimps.
Lover Boy #2
10-18-08, 04:29
Terry, well said.
I have already put Giotto on to the ignore list, he is so BIASED to the PAD it is sickening, he also likes to insult people with abusive postings, this is all the signs of an arrogant git, and with people like this you can never discuss, they only dictate.
Just like the PAD really, who love dictators.
Ignore the person, life is much simpler.
....not exactly in "great debater" mode........and a bit of a pussy move!
From: Not the Nation
"HM the Queen to Preside Over 18,300 Funerals of Victims of War on Drugs, Southern Insurgency, Poverty, Chalerm’s Sons"
BANGKOK – In a follow-up to this week’s decision to attend the cremation of Angkana Radubpanya-avut, who was killed when police dispersed anti-government protesters near the Parliament on October 7, Her Majesty The Queen has decided to also attend the funerals or funeral anniversaries of every other innocent victim of the failures of the state government and the patronage system over the last ten years. ......
http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=621
That's a bit unrealistic, no? The police are the drugs suppliers - they were just getting rid of competition. At least that seems the cynical view, which is usually the most accurate in Thailand.
As for 'shit' being 'cleaned up', this is precisely what I dread, as we hedonistic brethren are precisely in every cleaner's sights.
Lastly I would like to inquire how one may remain in Thailand for 20 years? Inheritance? Pension? Because I can't imagine being able to stomach teaching much longer..Opebo, a good job :) Thats the creme de la creme.
Drugs ? Police ? No....as you will find in most Asian nations the police only resupply what they seize for their tea money. This is the small side stall.
All Asian countries drugs are the business of the untouchables, the ones who can move over borders, the ones who can drive a lorry or car anywhere in the country and the police have no right to inspect it or stop it. In all Asian countries, the drugs business is primarily the business of the Army, and that is why you see so many "rich" ex military with fortunes more befitting a Telecoms tycoon than a military officer.
Perhaps you can see why the Police were so happy to sort out the "war on drugs", and some elements were so unhappy about it. It comes to something when the majority of the population of a country votes back in with loving support the very man a few "pissed off people" were so trying to take down.
Ask most Thai's (and not the Bangkok media spun brainwashed couple of million) and nearly all will say the "war on drugs" was great, it worked well, and well done Mr T.
G,
I have pointedly kept the personal stuff out of the debates on this thread.
...TT,
Yep, phrases like "your PAD" and "spinwriter" have clearly shown your factual businesslike non-provocative argumentation, keeping personal stuff out of the debate.
I think nothing new came up any more in the past few reports. If you think that this really is a "straightforward political situation" then let's hope that the involved people in responsible positions (all sides) find a solution to solve this problem soon. Can't be too difficult then.
Giotto
Lastly I would like to inquire how one may remain in Thailand for 20 years? Inheritance? Pension? Because I can't imagine being able to stomach teaching much longer..
Trade currencies. Can be done online and is easy but you need a little money to get started I do it in my spare time.
... IMO the 'Ignore' function is for wimps.Maybe true - but I put myself on my ignore list ages ago. As a result, much less bullshit to read. Problem is, I also put myself on my buddy list. :(
Maybe true - but I put myself on my ignore list ages ago. As a result, much less bullshit to read. Problem is, I also put myself on my buddy list. :(
Sometimes Piper old friend, you amaze me with your logic.
:D
Opebo, a good job :) Thats the creme de la creme.
In Thailand? I've never seen one of those.. though admittedly I've never known anyone with a good one in the US either. But good for you!
Ask most Thai's (and not the Bangkok media spun brainwashed couple of million) and nearly all will say the "war on drugs" was great, it worked well, and well done Mr T.
Well, certainly the ordinary people would like that. As for me I prefer drugs and a certain amount of personal freedom to stultifying under the strictures of bourgeois morality. Actually I think 'stultifying under the strictures of bourgeois morality' would be a good motto for my homeland, though I have to admit 'land of the free' has a certain ironic humour to it.
Trade currencies. Can be done online and is easy but you need a little money to get started I do it in my spare time.
Thanks for your kind advice DW, but I suspect the fly in the ointment there would be when one lost one's little capital (not that I have any to place at risk anyway).
And this is the very reason why everyone should kick the hell out of the PAD, they should have done it earlier, and all this BIAS towards them should have been stopped.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=131503
Red shirts mobilised
Another military coup will be met with resistance on Bangkok streets. Instead of giving flowers to soldiers, "people will hurl Molotov cocktails at them." EXCLUSIVE By Wassana Nanuam
Precedent has now been set. Precedent has been set!
Anyone can violently take over public land or government buildings, cause damage and NOT BE EVICTED.
If the public uses force and the Army uses force against the public ALL TOP ARMY LEADERS SHOULD RESIGN, based on comments of late by Army leaders.
So many bad precedents are now being set, it is obvious now the UDD will do everything the PAD has done.
If the government is kicked out, the UDD will come in in place of where the PAD was.
Pathetic - the idiots of the PAD should have been locked up months back, the precedents are getting set for blood on the streets - because stupid people support the stupid PAD and their self serving aims.
Latest development of the straightforward political situation in the country:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/19/politics/politics_30086353.php
An ex-deputy police clief wants to "retake" Government House after a religious ceremony next week. Not really surprising, but - he is a Bunnag, one of the real powerful Thai families, who usually operate in the political background. That means that at least parts of that family back up the PPP lead goverment. The Bunnags are known to be very close to the Royal family.
An Army Maj. General announces that he would mobilise government supporters against any army attempt to stage a coup. Quite unusual either. More unusual is his open discussion of the use of Molotov cocktails against tanks and military vehicles participating in a coup.
The army chief staged a kind of TV coup against the government, when he called on PM Somchai to resign and take over responsibility for the October 7th bloodbath.
PM Somchai neither resigned nor resolved the parliament. All that after he had an audience with HMTK last week.
Seams to me that all this is really easy to understand. It's only me who don't get the picture :).
Giotto
and this is the very reason why everyone should kick the hell out of the pad, they should have done it earlier, and all this bias towards them should have been stopped.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=131503
red shirts mobilised
another military coup will be met with resistance on bangkok streets. instead of giving flowers to soldiers, "people will hurl molotov cocktails at them." exclusive by wassana nanuam
precedent has now been set. precedent has been set!
anyone can violently take over public land or government buildings, cause damage and not be evicted.
if the public uses force and the army uses force against the public all top army leaders should resign, based on comments of late by army leaders.
so many bad precedents are now being set, it is obvious now the udd will do everything the pad has done.
if the government is kicked out, the udd will come in in place of where the pad was.
pathetic - the idiots of the pad should have been locked up months back, the precedents are getting set for blood on the streets - because stupid people support the stupid pad and their self serving aims.interesting pov.
the uad / daad (government supporting groups) announces to use force in case of a military coup, and the pad is responsible for that ? because they illegally occupied government house and set a precedent, that now justifies for all parties to act illegally?
let us try to find concurrence on a low level.
the pad occupied the government house - that is a clearly illegal act and must be prosecuted. the courts issued arrest warrents against the pad leaders, and after the treason charge was dropped all pad leaders surrendered to the police and are at the moment free on bail.
the executive (government, police) had two options at the beginning of the crisis: to immediately force the pad out taking the risk of a bloodbath, or to play the time card and try negotiations. the government choose the second option.
that the government choose the second option can either be understood as weakness or as the attempt (very much in line with buddhism) to do everything to avoid bloodshed or loss of lifes. i think both reasons played a role in samak's (that time pm) decision not to immediately force the pad out of the government house. and - i personally highly respect this single decision, because samak was usually not a person who backed away from a conflict. in this case he did - with good intentions.
as time went by nothing really important happened, the government was working in the army headquarter and on other locations.
samak had to resign over his cooking show, ridiculous in my pov, but according to the law it was ok.
the new pm somchai brought hope that things could ease. somchai had basically 3 options to proceed: the violent option to force the pad out, the option to start talks with the pad and the option "let's just wait, the raining season will do the job for us!"
somchai decided to go for talks. one of his first activities as a pm was to call the pad and try to set up meetings. he made gen. chavalit deputy pm, a very controversial politian here in thailand, but known to have close relations to some of the pad leaders.
this attempt to talk was tor****ed from inside the executive when pad leaders where suddenly arrested - after it became public that the government intended to talk to the pad. this clearly shows the government's weakness - a positive attempt from pm somchai was undermined by their own supporters!
the pad decided afterwards to stop all negotiations with the government. this might be understandable but it also shows selfishness of the pad leaders (the arrest warrents were only against 8 of them) and insufficient political instinct (they must have expected this, and they should have further supported pm somchais approach to talk).
a most likely frustrated chavalit then gave the "tear gas" order, when the pad rallied at the parliament to prevent the government from giving its initial political statement (this is still not confirmed, but it looks as if was chavalit who gave that order personally). the pad rally itself was illegal again, it was not a simple demonstration, the demonstrants blocked the entrances to the building to not let the mps / government members in or out. i don't even know whether charges were pressed against the pad leaders because if this event.
the reaction of the police to use force including the use tear gas is something that would be considered a normal and legal reaction of the executive in western democracies. the problem here in thailand is that the use of force against humans / any creatures is generally not accepted by the buddhist population - it makes a difference! force was used by both sides, and as usual here in thailand this events get completely out of control very fast. you really don't want to get involved with fighting thai people - they don't know any limits and even kick people lieing unconscious on the ground.
in the aftermath of such an event in which demonstrants die and many people on both sides get hurt the thais are looking for those who were responsible. at the moment the police is widely seen to be responsible - because of the "tear gas" order, and chavalit immediately resigned. the royal family also sent a clear message when the queen attended the funeral of a killed pad supporter.
now the political turmoil escalates - many different factions / organizations / groups have their saying. army chief anupong wants pm somchai to resign, but somchai stays after an audience with hmtk. rumours everywhere about a possible military coups - different possible coup leaders are mentioned. uad/daad demonstrations intensify - pad demonstrations gain in supporter numbers. a destabilization process of the whole thai administrations is in progress.
coming back now to the original answer to all questions (43? :) ) - the pad is responsible for all that? one could argue: the thai people are deeply devided since years, since the downfall of the thaksin administration. the pad might be only a product of this rift going through all the thai population. the reason for this rift is widely seen in the polarizing populistic politics and the self-enrichment of the [late] thaksin administration. would it be right to say then that it is thaksin who is responsible for all this? then we have to look at the political situation before thaksin, the ground on which the thaksin support grew ... and so on and so on. is it possible to simply fingerpoint to one group or one person to be responsible for all this development?
i don't think so, but i leave the search for the answers to the readers. what i see is missing political responsibility and selfishness on all sides! every responsible person who knows thai politics is aware of the risks of such a demonstration like the one from october 7th, and the pad leaders and the government both took that risk! they are all responsible for what has happened, and sooner or later they will all have to take over responsibility for what has happened.
pm somchai is the only man in all this game who impressed me to a certain extend. he was the guy who tried to start talks, tried to find a peaceful solution for the problem. to bring this into context with the audience in hua hin - this might be the message from hmtk: go ahead, you must find a solution for this problem - using peaceful means! prove to me, that you have learnt something.
giotto
Lover Boy #2
10-19-08, 14:47
1. The problem here in Thailand is that the use of force against humans / any creatures is generally not accepted by the Buddhist population - it makes a difference!
2. You really don't want to get involved with fighting Thai people - they don't know any limits and even kick people lieing unconscious on the ground.
Giotto
How do we reconcile the thought in #1 and the thought in #2? I have never understood this. The Thais are peaceful Buddhist's who do not like force against any creature.....yet they have bad tempers, will kick an unconscious person and possibly stick a jagged bottle into a femoral artery when the guy is on the ground (reference to bar brawl in Pattaya where a farang was killed in this manner). Maybe they are a people who are just full of shit? A people who talk a good game, might think a good game, but act like vicious animals at very little provocation. It's just my belief at the moment.
Starchild2012
10-20-08, 21:12
How do we reconcile the thought in #1 and the thought in #2? I have never understood this. The Thais are peaceful Buddhist's who do not like force against any creature.....yet they have bad tempers, will kick an unconscious person and possibly stick a jagged bottle into a femoral artery when the guy is on the ground (reference to bar brawl in Pattaya where a farang was killed in this manner). Maybe they are a people who are just full of shit? A people who talk a good game, might think a good game, but act like vicious animals at very little provocation. It's just my belief at the moment.
LB..Good observation...Being an asian myself..I could relate some point...Asian people are generally more emotional than western folks.
The emotions run from one extreme to another..if they are Good..they will not kill even an ant..but when they get violent..they will start a revolution and wont mind killing millions.
You can call an asian mindset..its neither bad nor good.....The thought process in asia has being conditioned as a result of 1000's of years of existance with good and bad memories passed genetically on by fore fathers.
You can call Asia a land of contradiction..and start with India from where most of the cultures were adopted by Asia.
Ask n number of tourist who visit india and their experience is one of contradiction.....Majority of Tourist say India is a land of contradiction.
We have one of the richest people on earth..In fact in 2007 forbes pointed out that in the top 10 list of billionares...number of Indians were even higher than America...the richest country in the world.
On the contrary...we are one of the poorest nation on earth...the recent human development index puts India on par with sub saharan countries....highest number of malnourished children anywhere on planet earth are from India.
This extreme contradiction in India was the very reason Buddha was born...before Buddha there were lots of Animal sacrifices and even in some extreme forms of Tantra, there were human sacrifices as well...90% of the population in India were non vegetarians before buddha.
After Buddism everything became exact reverse.....the dudes who used to kill millions like emporer Asoka became monks, vegetarian, non violent, animal lover all in one lifetime.
Even today....more than 70% of indians are vegetarians..
However, It is not to be mis understood by the word "change" that Barrak Obama uses :)..thats different
There are many stories on how mass murderers, theifs changed over night when they came in presence of Buddha...Their is a good movie named Angulimala in Thai...where a road side mass murders having killed nearly 1000 people comes in contact with Buddha infact first to kill him and wear his fingers around his neck..but changes once he meets him.
This extreme form of emotional transformation cannot be explained in a measurable way....but it has given birth to Buddha but at the same time led to the partition of India as well and with the same emotions led to the near extinction of Buddism in India.
To understand Thailand or Asia one MUST understand India..which is the root extreme place for the study of mass contradiction and emotions.
Sadly and Unfortunatly to prove this point further as an example unless the western governments and dudes, dont interfere in Thai politics and recent Thai-combodia conflict...The problem WILL ONLY ESCALATE FURTHER AND FURTHER and FURTHER.....due to the above emotional thing...they will take it to the extreme FORM of negative emotions...can't help it...its the way it is...
This is the reason...why western dudes in these forums dont understand Thai mind set and get frustated often due to the way things are here..
And this is the very reason why majority of you guys always call for "Putting some sense into the Thai mindset" :)
Which is what is needed right now when the same good emotions turns into violent negative emotions...not only in Thailand but in India and all of Asia.
[ PS :- Ohhh but i give up...If you try to calm the extreme emotions in what ever way good or bad...we will neither have Buddha, smiles or hospitality on the postive side of emotions nor then we would have extreme violent conflict and tortures we see on TV from Asia...it would be a lame a**s boring, dull Asia without any emotions :D ]
Now as they say " Its upto you" :) to either suppress these emotions in Thais and suffer the karmic consequences or just let go of these things and accept & understand the way "IT IS" how it works in Asia or else it would cease to exist
Lover Boy #2
10-21-08, 01:13
LB..Good observation...Being an asian myself..I could relate some point...Asian people are generally more emotional than western folks.
The emotions run from one extreme to another..if they are Good..they will not kill even an ant..but when they get violent..they will start a revolution and wont mind killing millions.
You can call an asian mindset..its neither bad nor good.....The thought process in asia has being conditioned as a result of 1000's of years of existance with good and bad memories passed genetically on by fore fathers.
You can call Asia a land of contradiction..and start with India from where most of the cultures were adopted by Asia.
Ask n number of tourist who visit india and their experience is one of contradiction.....Majority of Tourist say India is a land of contradiction.
We have one of the richest people on earth..In fact in 2007 forbes pointed out that in the top 10 list of billionares...number of Indians were even higher than America...the richest country in the world.
On the contrary...we are one of the poorest nation on earth...the recent human development index puts India on par with sub saharan countries....highest number of malnourished children anywhere on planet earth are from India.
This extreme contradiction in India was the very reason Buddha was born...before Buddha there were lots of Animal sacrifices and even in some extreme forms of Tantra, there were human sacrifices as well...90% of the population in India were non vegetarians before buddha.
After Buddism everything became exact reverse.....the dudes who used to kill millions like emporer Asoka became monks, vegetarian, non violent, animal lover all in one lifetime.
Even today....more than 70% of indians are vegetarians..
However, It is not to be mis understood by the word "change" that Barrak Obama uses :)..thats different
There are many stories on how mass murderers, theifs changed over night when they came in presence of Buddha...Their is a good movie named Angulimala in Thai...where a road side mass murders having killed nearly 1000 people comes in contact with Buddha infact first to kill him and wear his fingers around his neck..but changes once he meets him.
This extreme form of emotional transformation cannot be explained in a measurable way....but it has given birth to Buddha but at the same time led to the partition of India as well and with the same emotions led to the near extinction of Buddism in India.
To understand Thailand or Asia one MUST understand India..which is the root extreme place for the study of mass contradiction and emotions.
Sadly and Unfortunatly to prove this point further as an example unless the western governments and dudes, dont interfere in Thai politics and recent Thai-combodia conflict...The problem WILL ONLY ESCALATE FURTHER AND FURTHER and FURTHER.....due to the above emotional thing...they will take it to the extreme FORM of negative emotions...can't help it...its the way it is...
This is the reason...why western dudes in these forums dont understand Thai mind set and get frustated often due to the way things are here..
And this is the very reason why majority of you guys always call for "Putting some sense into the Thai mindset" :)
Which is what is needed right now when the same good emotions turns into violent negative emotions...not only in Thailand but in India and all of Asia.
[ PS :- Ohhh but i give up...If you try to calm the extreme emotions in what ever way good or bad...we will neither have Buddha, smiles or hospitality on the postive side of emotions nor then we would have extreme violent conflict and tortures we see on TV from Asia...it would be a lame a**s boring, dull Asia without any emotions :D ]
Now as they say " Its upto you" :) to either suppress these emotions in Thais and suffer the karmic consequences or just let go of these things and accept & understand the way "IT IS" how it works in Asia or else it would cease to exist
....a very thought provoking post in many ways. I am pondering the implications of what you have said...but in the meantime I have another question.
I have quite a few Indian/Thai friends who are all Sikhs....born in Thailand. Why do they have an entirely different view of the same country and the people.....looking at the "far eastern asian" Thais as kind of screwed up, lazy, stupid and violent if put in a frustrating situation?
I completely agree that India is the birth of all of this, although the Thais (non-Indian) all look down at their ancestral relationship with India...and even the birthplace of Buddha....which they deny was in India/Nepal....even denying who Buddha really was, the locations of his wandering and the connection to the concurrent religion of India at the time of Buddha.
Maybe the key is the supression of emotion in an ill-educated, immature person and the eventual flood when the gate is opened?
Former Thai PM Thaksin sentence to jail!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081021/ts_nm/us_thailand_thaksin
Starchild2012
10-21-08, 13:19
....a very thought provoking post in many ways. I am pondering the implications of what you have said...but in the meantime I have another question.
I have quite a few Indian/Thai friends who are all Sikhs....born in Thailand. Why do they have an entirely different view of the same country and the people.....looking at the "far eastern asian" Thais as kind of screwed up, lazy, stupid and violent if put in a frustrating situation?
I completely agree that India is the birth of all of this, although the Thais (non-Indian) all look down at their ancestral relationship with India...and even the birthplace of Buddha....which they deny was in India/Nepal....even denying who Buddha really was, the locations of his wandering and the connection to the concurrent religion of India at the time of Buddha.
Maybe the key is the supression of emotion in an ill-educated, immature person and the eventual flood when the gate is opened?
Sikhs are an offshoot of Hinduism...further more, There are no common line of thought among Hindus themselves, so in India, we have 100's of sects , 1000 of gurus and yogis going around.
What started as a sect from Hinduism ( however, one should also remember that. there are no such thing as Hindus but a collective word to describe people from India following different schools of thought)
Interestingly, Sikhs in India also deny any links with Hindus and they consider themselves being in different religion than rest of Indians.
What started as a sect by 10 gurus became a religion but the core of everything be it Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, Hinduism etc etc is Vedas, which is a study in itself.
As a matter of privilege and exclusivity, The sikhs elders not the founding fathers had to look down upon Hindus and Buddhists, so they could show to the followers that their religion is some how different than others.
Due to Thai being Buddhists, the elders have to brand them inferior in order to prove themselves that they are better than others. and get a mass following.
If Thais were say did not had ANY RELIGION, it would have being perfect for your Sikh friends or for all of Indians and Asians. The reason of hatred and as you said "screwed up, lazy, stupid and violent if put in a frustrating situation?" is exactly due to Thai being Buddhist...you see their is a clash of interest and both religion comes from India and from both sides, the elders have made sure their followers continue to think in a way of hatred or exclusivity and they have being successful for centuries and now it has come to the genetics itself more or less instinctive :D...if you are not one of us then you must be inferior, lower class, untouchables etc etc.
In the name of religion there is more power mongering now a days, 90% of the folks around don't know the truth but they follow whatever the elders say just like what the Thais do. Whatever the royals feeds them they listen.
What your Sikhs friends said about Thai's are NOT their own viewpoint but are the views which were distorted for centuries to suit some of the so called teachers of their sect/religion to suit their own purposes.
If all teachers of God don't lie, deceit, distort the facts to their own people, then we all will be one...Its the vested interest at play.
It is the same with Christianity, Islam everyone wants to think they are somehow "Superior than others" which is the root cause of problems in religion.
On a lighter note..I hope you don't explain to your Thai Sikhs friends about the reality or be ready to face a violent reaction from them as i described in the earlier post about the extreme emotion we display one way or the other :D
That is also the reason..so many dudes from west even though they know what the royals churn to their masses are a bunch of lies and deceit and when they go about telling the truth..in the name of disrespecting the royal family they are put in Jail.
What the western dudes are really doing is De-hypnotizing the Thais from lies and deceit which they got fed from centuries just like we were been done in in India but at the same time, they are taking the fight with well established group of individuals who will have to close their shop and become ordinary folks like us and work and struggle for daily survival when the truth comes out.
You see when you tell the truth and convince some of the folks..you are really closing the house of many powerful individuals who lived on lies and deceit for centuries.
That is the reason Jesus Christ was crucified cos he took some of the powerful folks in the establishment and ended up canned.
You guys will not get crucified or canned but will definitely end up in Jail or in extreme end shot dead, cos your line of thought is same as of Jesus ..you guys are trying to change things around here..spooking some well established powerful families..the condition that we have in Thailand is same as during those days of Jesus...powerful kings distorting the masses, keeping them in dark and then comes folks from the west with good interest, cant see the pain, poverty and exploitation, tries to offer solution, raises his voice and gets cainned and shot...only problem was ...the western dude who came was not the "CHOSEN ONE" but a drunken w**hore monger with good intentions all around :D
It is the same with mass religions be it Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam etc etc...even though all religions teach the truth...the way they are distorted by individuals to suit their own purposes is the problem.
There is absolutely no problem with Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, Sikhs gurus etc...they all came with Good intentions its the ground messengers who created the problem for all of them :)
I pity western dudes who really really wants to correct the Thai's from the mass delusion they suffer like us in India and end up in Jail...You guys are right but the thing is you cant "CHANGE IT".
With my experience, I can only say to western dudes, who do not understand the complexities of religion & emotions in Asia however what you guys think is in fact right for the people here but unfortunately its too complex and does not work in a straight line.
Don't indulge in anything other than pleasure here, don't even put your minds into any other forms of thought in Asia..its USELESS
Believe me, The condition that we are in drunken, aimless who**re mongers in Asia is THE BEST state of mind that one can be here...THERE ARE NO OTHER HIGHER GROUNDS TO COVER :D
Former Thai PM Thaksin sentence to jail!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081021/ts_nm/us_thailand_thaksinWell that means:
1. He is so rich he can stay there forever
2. He is a British Citizen
3. He knows old Somchai is gonna pull a constitutional ammendment and allow him to come marching home again.
4. He plans on doing the time
5. He is gonna relocate to some West Indian paradise and tax haven
6. He is going to lead a band of mercenaries to take Thailand
7. He is lying
8. Something quite ludicrous
Well that means:
1. He is so rich he can stay there forever
2. He is a British Citizen
3. He knows old Somchai is gonna pull a constitutional ammendment and allow him to come marching home again.
4. He plans on doing the time
5. He is gonna relocate to some West Indian paradise and tax haven
6. He is going to lead a band of mercenaries to take Thailand
7. He is lying
8. Something quite ludicrousAre you "Hammered" at ThaiVisa? Because he made exactly the same post almost 4 hours before "yours" here (typo in the word "amendment" included): http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Guilty-Land-Case-2-year-t218613.html (post #12)
If not, it's a blatant case of copying (and without any added value).
According to an article by The Nation (Oct. 24, 2008):
"Thais are okay with a corrupt government if it can give them a good life, an Abac Poll survey showed yesterday. 'Agencies need to act immediately to eradicate corruption in Thai society before the country is ruined and it is too hard to rehabilitate. Most people now care about their own interest and that of their group more than public interest.' About 63 per cent of 3,880 respondents countrywide said they believed graft is part and parcel of every government, which was acceptable if the government could bring prosperity to the country and its people..."
So, if this is the case, it appears that only a minority really care about Taksin, are anti-PPP (or any other party for that matter), could care less about politics, and just want to get on with their business and lives.
And it seems a smaller minority, the PAD, are spoiling the party for everyone else by shitting where they now eat at the Gov't house.
According to an article by The Nation (Oct. 24, 2008):
"... About 63 per cent of 3,880 respondents countrywide said they believed graft is part and parcel of every government, which was acceptable if the government could bring prosperity to the country and its people..."Poll on corruption in Thailand. As a Thai citizen, you will be given 100 baht if you are pro, nothing it you are against. Results: 63% are pro-corruption, and the other 37% just want more than 100 baht to change their mind. ;)
Terry Terrier
10-25-08, 23:24
Poll on corruption in Thailand. As a Thai citizen, you will be given 100 baht if you are pro, nothing it you are against. Results: 63% are pro-corruption, and the other 37% just want more than 100 baht to change their mind. ;)
Corruption.....that hoary old slag.....Get rid of the populist who sent some of Bangkok's taxes to the regions, and Thailand will rid itself of corruption.....right? Uh.....yeah:D.
Terry Terrier
11-08-08, 09:43
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7717199.stm
Terry Terrier
11-09-08, 12:40
Another good article by the BBC's Jonathan Head, this one about the polarising of Thailand's classes by the current political struggle:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7716033.stm
http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/20/thailands-descent-into-chaos/
The current Prime Minister, Thaksin’s brother-in-law, Somchai Wongsawat, appears weak and helpless. The army have refused to disperse the protesters and he’s been forced to put on a brave face and try and ignore the fact he can’t get into his own office.This may go on for another three months, or even three years, but sooner or later a decision will have to be made. Who should run this country?
Thaksin will challenge his political enemies for an eye-for-an-eye fight because he is no longer going to sit still, he added...
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/19/politics/politics_30088766.php
It inspired me the following...
http://imagehoster.us/uploads/370df026f8.jpg
Yikes.
It seems like PAD is trying to shut down tourism. Bet it works.
Yikes.
It seems like PAD is trying to shut down tourism. Bet it works.Hmmm...
Today it's about the PM returning from South America.
If they still block the Airport in the next few days ... then we can be sure, that the last brain cells have left Thailand, and it is time for us to leave, too.
Giotto
Holiday shoppers Warbucks fears you will not be leaving Thailand anytime soon:D I can only imagine what the United States would do if a group pulled this shit. The streets would be red with blood. I got to hand it to whoever is orchestrating this fiasco they got a lot of balls….
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081125/ts_afp/thailandpoliticsprotestairportclose
I am glad to see the Democrat/Army alliance (sorry are they called the PAD? ) are now getting desperate for attention.
Its also good to see the police/government stick the middle finger up at the Army and Media and refuse to get involved and get violent. The are simply now going to let the PAD do what they want, on the basis that if they take any action then the media will be up in arms and saying how bad the police are. So this time, let the PAD take all the headlines and do whatever they want. Well done police, keep up this non confrontational role and den the PAD the violence they want.
I really hope the PAD supporting idiots get hurt by the shutting of the airport, and I hope the airport stays shut for weeks!
Well done AOT, keep that airport shut, and now watch the idiots who support the PAD start to hurt! LOL
Starchild2012
11-26-08, 06:29
Hmmm...
Today it's about the PM returning from South America.
If they still block the Airport in the next few days ... then we can be sure, that the last brain cells have left Thailand, and it is time for us to leave, too.
Giotto
LOL Funny :D
I am disappointed in the PAD. I thought they could perhaps pressure the government and try to peacefully bring about change, but as with all such protests, when it becomes drawn out, the ones who are left end up being the lunatics, who are then only a stones throw (in this case literaly) from raising the level of violence with gunshots fired.
The fools are doing exactly what the government wants them to do - there are two things going on here.
1. Allow the general public to be inconvenienced and screwed about by the protesters, leave it going long enough and they will lose support because the public will get very sick of the disturbance to their lifestyle etc
2. When things seem so dire that no-one can work out how to fix it, the government invites Thaksin back to clear it all up. Grants him a pardon and we are back where we started...
I used to think the PAD were reasonably intelligent...why are they being so fucking dumb now?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.