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Admin
01-01-07, 01:00
Greetings everyone,

I created this thread for the specific purpose of providing everyone with a place to fight.

The idea it to keep this BS out of the normal information threads.

Effective immediately, antagonistic reports posted in other threads will be deleted without comment.

If you want to argue with other forum memers, invite them to join you here.

Thanks,

Jackson

The Traveler
01-03-07, 22:03
just picking on everything for the sake of the fight?
if he says is sounds more like an l as in 'aloy' and 'falang' that is certainly his right (and most would agree with him). we both know its not exactly a western r or l sound, so which it is 'nearer to' is up to the individual. however most people would agree that lazy thai speak (as distinct from perfect speech) does sound like 'one falang' rather than 'one farang' and like 'aloy mark' rather than 'aroy mark'. thais have both dignified and lazy style pronunciation just like westerners do.
so surely you can find something of more substance to fight over.
mick licker,

with all due respect, but you don't seem to see the obvious.

i agree with you that it is completely unimportant if opebo pronounces it the right or wrong way. i personally couldn't care less.

i rather used it as an example to show that opebo is unable to admit any mistake.

the word "roo" (to know) is spelled [roo rua] [sala u] [mai toh] and as we all know thai is a tonal language and pronounciation is most important. the spelling leaves no room for any interpretation, it has to be pronouced with a "r".

the fact that opebo isn't able to hear the difference or that others may pronounce it wrong as well doesn't change the fact that he is objectively wrong. but instead of admitting it he tries to argue.

i have met people like him and they were all the same, never admitting any wrongdoing or mistakes, no matter how small and unimportant those mistakes are. if anything goes wrong they always blame others but never themselves.

i would appreciate if anybody would correct the mistakes i make, so i can learn and improve my knowledge. but not opebo, he will argue endlessly.

M P Lurker
01-04-07, 03:54
Mick Licker,

with all due respect, but you don't seem to see the obvious.

I agree with you that it is completely unimportant if Opebo pronounces it the right or wrong way. I personally couldn't care less.

I rather used it as an example to show that Opebo is unable to admit any mistake.

The word "roo" (to know) is spelled [roo rua] [sala u] [mai toh] and as we all know Thai is a tonal language and pronounciation is most important. The spelling leaves no room for any interpretation, it has to be pronouced with a "R".

The fact that Opebo isn't able to hear the difference or that others may pronounce it wrong as well doesn't change the fact that he is objectively wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to argue.

I have met people like him and they were all the same, never admitting any wrongdoing or mistakes, no matter how small and unimportant those mistakes are. If anything goes wrong they always blame others but never themselves.

I would appreciate if anybody would correct the mistakes I make, so I can learn and improve my knowledge. But not Opebo, he will argue endlessly.
Your so called "obvious" is a wrong assumption in my mind.
The Thai letter which you call "roo rua" (but I would write "ror reua" as a closer approximation to the sound in my opinion) is not the same in the method of production as an English R nor an English L.
The english R is made with a rounded mouth and the Thai sound with a wider mouth for starters.
Just like Chaophraya is officially spelt with a Ch in english and yet the sound is not at all a Ch. Its an english J. I would spell Chaophraya as Jaoprahyar to get a better pronunciation attempt for an English speaking person.
By your logic it would seem that I must pronounce it like an english Ch because somebody spelt it that way. In this case my pronunciation would be quite wrong.
Also the Ph is pronounced P and not F.
The Th in Thai is not pronounced like an english Th at all.
In fact although Thai words have been converted to English letters the the sounds correspond to European languages like German more closly than to english pronunciation.

Although the transliteration people have chosen to spell with the letter R when attempting to spell Thai words in English, the english use of letter R doesn't actually show how to pronounce it correctly at all.
Opebo doesn't know Thai so he just writes the word as it sounds to him. Now I agree with him that in some words used by some Thais the "ror reua" sounds more like an L (but actually not as Thais do not flick the top teeth with the tongue as we do for an English L).
Delicious food "aroi" sounds more like "aloi" to myself and many others when Thais say it in a lazy pronunciation.

So although Opebo may want to believe he understands Thai pronunciation better than he really does, we are all in the same camp. After many years of Thai, my pronunciation is not perfect.
A Thai kid answering the phone to me, will call out to the adult that a Farang is calling. Its obvious to the kid that the pronunciation is not a native Thai person even though I may be easy to understand. Hopefully I sound better than some americans who speak Thai with a long american drawl, which sounds very funny.

So summarise:
1. Although Thai place names have official English spellings, the English spelling gives little clue as to the correct pronunciation in many words, like Chaopraya.
2. Other Thai words have no official English spelling as spelling in English is impossible to get correct pronunciation. Therefore we can all spell Thai words any way we feel like using the closest sounding letters in our personal opinions. "ror reua" is not equal to English R.
3. Thais have variations in accents and in whether they are using correct high Thai or lazy sloppy Thai. A Thai letter doesn't always sound precisely the same for all words and all people are speaking it.
4. Nothing much is obvious other than perhaps to the top linguistic experts
5. There are plenty of issues to argue with Opebo on. I thought this issue was not a good choice. We are both overly picky at times.

Opebo
01-04-07, 07:27
You could actually get a work permit and a non-imm B visa, you know. It's not that difficult.

I personally support the new visa rules. It keeps the riff-raff out and forces people who want to make money here, to do it legitimately and most importantly, pay taxes. I have too. Why should some guy, who owns a bar be allowed to stay here on a tourist visa?

Actually the new visa rules do not keep out 'riffraff', but rather those who have the means to stay here indefinitely without working - precisely the opposite of the traditional definition of riffraff. The typical person whose stay will be shortened by these new visa rules is certainly far more affluent than the typical person who would be desperate enough to resort to paid toil in the third world.

Old Thai Hand
01-04-07, 14:01
Actually the new visa rules do not keep out 'riffraff', but rather those who have the means to stay here indefinitely without working - precisely the opposite of the traditional definition of riffraff. The typical person whose stay will be shortened by these new visa rules is certainly far more affluent than the typical person who would be desperate enough to resort to paid toil in the third world.

Well, trying to pick another fight, I see.

I don't know anyone who's desperate. On the contrary, I know people who appreciate a quality of life here, with good salaries, low taxes and considerably less pressures than one would endure in the West. But, I know you don't believe that, as you always refer to the legions of low-paid teachers making 30,000/month (I don't know any, personally). I do know many well-heeled Farang, who don't work, but who stay here legitimately with a proper visa. It's no secret that the tourist visa has been abused for a long time by many people. You couldn't get away with this in any other country. Why should Thailand have to put up with it? I've read lots of posts on Farang boards filled with resentment.These guys feel some entitlement, and feel their "rights" are being trampled on. What gives them the right? They're guests here. That's all.

My personal resentment is aimed, as I mentioned at people staying here as tourists, earning money by various illegal means (including owning bars) and not paying taxes. But, of course, by your definition this means the "forces of control" want to keep tabs on who's here and make sure that they are paying for the privilege, and I guess that smacks of "Big Brother" in your eyes. Fine by me. If you don't like it, go back to the "Home of the brave and Land of the free".

Oh, and BTW, by saying "The typical person whose stay will be shortened by these new visa rules is certainly far more affluent..." do mean like this guy?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30023289

or perhaps this guy...

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_27_12_49_2.htm

No...I'm sure you mean this guy...

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=2076

Billy Ibrox
01-04-07, 14:46
It's no secret that the tourist visa has been abused for a long time by many people. You couldn't get away with this in any other country. .....If you don't like it, go back to the "Home of the brave and Land of the free".I know plenty of fellas stay in the Philippines on one year tourist visas, fly out at the end and then fly back in. It's a no brainer.

So many Africans abuse Malaysia's system by hanging around on student visas that the Muslim police (not the ordinary coppers) are hauling in darkies everywhere. The American Embassy is pissed off at this as a good few African Americans have been lifted and publicly paraded in chains. Kinda funny really.

The Thai military have obviously decided to get rid of the riff raff and they would include a lot of middle class sleaze bags in their definition, not just the white trash who suicide in Pattaya. Speaking of that holy place, the cleansing of Beach Road shows that the military are calling the shots. No more bribes for the local constabulary? Once Beach Raod is cleaned, I wonder which sois will be next. I would say they want a corridor of cleanliness from Soi 7 to Mike's Mall and to also tuck Boyztown in a bit. That would break the back of the whole show between 2nd Road and Beach Road and allow the Russian tourists and others to have it more their own way. More money for the respectable. The providers will just go somewhere else but sex tourism will fall and be less of a national eyesore.

If you don't think this is possible, check out Olongapo in the Philippines.

Opebo
01-04-07, 17:43
...you always refer to the legions of low-paid teachers making 30,000/month (I don't know any, personally).

Well, I know many. After all, that is the standard teacher's salary in Thailand - between 26,000 and say at most 40,000 baht/month. Virtually all the thousands of government schools and private ones pay in that range. You may be right that a few pay more, but what significance does the 1% have? The median is what is meaningful to the worker.


But, of course, by your definition this means the "forces of control" want to keep tabs on who's here and make sure that they are paying for the privilege, and I guess that smacks of "Big Brother" in your eyes. Fine by me. If you don't like it, go back to the "Home of the brave and Land of the free".

I left that sad land precisely because it is the least free, and in fact the source of the massive movement towards greater social control which has plagued the world for many decades now. But I certainly don't mind the idea of people paying for governmental services. For example in Cambodia they provide a year visa for I believe between $200 and $300. I don't think any of the leisure class who have showered their financial benefits upon Thailand for these years would mind paying a bit more to do so - the reason they are outraged is they as essentially being told they cannot stay regardless.


Oh, and BTW, by saying "The typical person whose stay will be shortened by these new visa rules is certainly far more affluent..." do mean like this guy?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30023289

or perhaps this guy...

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_27_12_49_2.htm

No...I'm sure you mean this guy...

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=2076

All of those fellows are clearly well-heeled, and benefited Thailand financially without doing any 'harm' here. Additionally I consider the persecution of the third chap purely based on his private sexual preference to be violation of human rights.

Opebo
01-04-07, 17:54
So many Africans abuse Malaysia's system by hanging around on student visas that the Muslim police (not the ordinary coppers) are hauling in darkies everywhere. The American Embassy is pissed off at this as a good few African Americans have been lifted and publicly paraded in chains. Kinda funny really.

Your post reveals you to be a racist, Billy.


...the cleansing of Beach Road shows that the military are calling the shots. No more bribes for the local constabulary?


Billy, the oppression occurring there predates this current regime by the better part of a year. These policies were initated by Thai Rak Thai, particularly the local mayor, who is (or was?) TRT. While seems that the military are continuing said policies, there is nothing to suggest they are the source. I think we can all assume that is Thai society as a whole, which like all societies is, collectively, a prude.

As for bribes, the Beach Road scene never offered very significant opportunities for bribery, given its fluid nature. No doubt some of the regulars gave a hundred baht here or there when cops came by, but the cops hardly ever came by, and those parttime girls who just popped by a few days a month (usually just around the day rent was due) would be impossible to track. After all that was the interesting aspect of the whole scene back then - one never knew who would be there: it could be anything from a girl fresh off the bus, to a hardened regular, to the maid at your hotel dropping by after work.

Billy Ibrox
01-04-07, 18:39
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6228125.stm

o****, here is a report backing up my claim that the malaysian muslim police are chaining darkies from africa and the usa. there is something funny to american citizens being led in chains through chinatown. not nice but funny. you obviously do not appreciate chaingang humour. personally, i would not be in a hurry to produce an american passport to muslim thought police but ymmv. when i am in kl, i usually fuck around plaza hotel and always behind padlocked doors. no chaingang for me, thank you very much.

i note your beach road comments. it is valuable real estate, made more valuable by getting the dixie cup chicks and their customers off it. i made my military comment by reading feeler saying the military cops are accompanying the ordinary cops on patrol. feeler might be on to something there.

Retired Army
01-05-07, 03:15
My personal resentment is aimed, as I mentioned at people staying here as tourists, earning money by various illegal means (including owning bars) and not paying taxes. But, of course, by your definition this means the "forces of control" want to keep tabs on who's here and make sure that they are paying for the privilege, and I guess that smacks of "Big Brother" in your eyes. Fine by me. If you don't like it, go back to the "Home of the brave and Land of the free".



Most of the expats I know here are not having any particular problems with their visas. If seems that if you have some money and don't cause any problems there is a way around anything.

Old Thai Hand
01-05-07, 03:25
for example in cambodia they provide a year visa for i believe between $200 and $300. i don't think any of the leisure class who have showered their financial benefits upon thailand for these years would mind paying a bit more to do so - the reason they are outraged is they as essentially being told they cannot stay regardless....

all of those fellows are clearly well-heeled, and benefited thailand financially without doing any 'harm' here. additionally i consider the persecution of the third chap purely based on his private sexual preference to be violation of human rights.


1/ you can hire a lawyer, pay him 10,000 baht and he'll get you a non-imm. visa. it's that simple.

2/ the 3 examples i gave you are all criminals and the third guy is a ****. yet you defend them. what does that say about you?

3/ we've had the teacher salary argument before. yes there are many making on average, 35,000-40,000/month. but, there are also many (not a few, as you say) making 80,000-150,000/month and more. there are loads of international schools paying that, not to mention international programs in universities that pay that much. in the case of universities, there are also other hidden ways to make money that are tax-exempt in the form of special fees, grants etc., open both to farang and thai, which you would never get at an american university, at least not without paying heavily in taxes. this is why a thai government professor on a taxable income (3%) of only 24,500/month can drive around in a mercedes-s. that salary is topped up to well over 100,000 by "other" non-taxable income. since i've been in this system for 10 years and you, by contrast are not a teacher or professor, my information is credible, while yours isn't.

Opebo
01-05-07, 04:39
1/ you can hire a lawyer, pay him 10,000 baht and he'll get you a non-imm. visa. it's that simple.

really? i've never heard of that. sounds like corruption or misrepresentation. what is the ostensible reason for this visa? business? tourism? work? what if you simply want to live idly on a stipend from home?


2/ the 3 examples i gave you are all criminals and the third guy is a ****. yet you defend them. what does that say about you?

that i object to the laws as they stand, oth, as is my right to do.


3/ we've had the teacher salary argument before. yes there are many making on average, 35,000-40,000/month. but, there are also many (not a few, as you say) making 80,000-150,000/month and more. there are loads of international schools paying that, not to mention international programs in universities that pay that much. in the case of universities, there are also other hidden ways to make money that are tax-exempt in the form of special fees, grants etc., open both to farang and thai, which you would never get at an american university, at least not without paying heavily in taxes. this is why a thai government professor on a taxable income (3%) of only 24,500/month can drive around in a mercedes-s. that salary is topped up to well over 100,000 by "other" non-taxable income. since i've been in this system for 10 years and you, by contrast are not a teacher or professor, my information is credible, while yours isn't.

i don't think we're in disagreement, oth - we both agree that the great majority of teachers make the median of say 35,000/month, while a very small elite make much more. i merely stress the point that most will make a subsistence level in order to avoid exciting high hopes among the sex-starved workers back home.

Billy Ibrox
01-05-07, 05:53
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bre...newsid=30023289

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_27_12_49_2.htm

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.p...pe=news&id=2076

The Dane was nabbedafter he came to Bangkok. The Norwegian was nabbed 8 months after the event.

Did someone shop them? Were they caught from visa forms? The process of nailing htem is interesting.

Old Thai Hand
01-05-07, 08:55
Really? I've never heard of that. Sounds like corruption or misrepresentation. What is the ostensible reason for this visa? Business? Tourism? Work? What if you simply want to live idly on a stipend from home?

It's been in practice as long as I've been here. It's not corruption. It's merely a way to expedite the process if you are not working for anyone who will do it for you. You can also apply for a residency visa. There is a quota system - so many allotted for each country. Cost = 191,500 baht or 98,500 if you're legally married to a Thai.

To answer your question...why should one be allowed to live idly without a proper visa? A Thai couldn't do so, indefinitely in the US. Why should someone be allowed to do that here? Again, you sound like one these Farang who thinks they are somehow entitled to stay here indefinitely without proper legality, simply because you contribute a small amount of money to the economy. Thailand has enough tourists spending millions. They don't need Farang loafers hanging around and not paying taxes.

Re: Teaching salaries

While it is true that ESL teachers working at govt. schools make 35,000/mo on average, the same is true of ESL teachers in the US where the hourly rate is $15/hour and the usual contact hours are 20/wk making the income $1400/month, not that much more than here and with the added disadvantage of American taxes and a higher cost of living. Also, there are many more opportunities to make a lot of extra money on the side here than there would be in the US, what with private tutorials etc. That's the point.

I briefly taught ESL here for 3 months, 8 years ago, while waiting for a new job to start and made 65,000/month, mostly from privates. One of my more lucrative privates was the son of a Cuban Trade Commissioner. I also had a very hot Thai model as a student, who not only paid me well, but who I got to shag on top of it. If you can make the right connections, which is how it works here, you can do very well. That's the point.

Only a chump would just work his basic teaching job and do nothing else.

I never understand these 50-something geezers in their 98 baht street ties, book bag slung over their shoulders as they balance precariously on the back of motorcycle taxis to save a baht, rushing off, all sweaty to their crappy teaching jobs. These guys are just loosers. But, in truth most of the lower paid ESL teachers are young guys in their 20s or maybe early 30s, just having an adventure and getting some experience. There's nothing wrong with that.

Ralph Kramden
01-05-07, 15:24
OTH

Just out of curiosity, at about what age do foreigners in high paying English teaching jobs get shoved out of the system? This being long-time teachers with a good track record.

RK

Old Thai Hand
01-05-07, 16:11
OTH

Just out of curiosity, at about what age do foreigners in high paying English teaching jobs get shoved out of the system? This being long-time teachers with a good track record.

RK

I have no definitive idea as I'm not an English teacher. But, I know of English teachers at my university in their 60s, who seem in no danger of losing their jobs.

However, having said that, at the end of the day, there is no job security for any Farang professor here, despite their absolute necessity. For example, I have an impeccable record and there literally is nobody in this country who can match my qualifications (not arrogance, just fact). Yet, I could be out the door at the next contract renewal, if they so decided and replaced by a far less-qualified, cheaper Farang or even cheaper Thai of minimal English-speaking competency.

The bottom line is that, although there are many Thais in power who care about quality education, whatever the price, and who are open-minded and not xenophobic, there are far more who don't care, or who are arrogant to think that Thai educators are equal to or better than Farang (which in most cases, they're not) and who are jealous of Farang who make higher salaries than they do.

I'm not particularly worried. But, I do have an exit plan.

Ralph Kramden
01-06-07, 04:13
OTH

Thanks for the information, which those who wish to work in Thailand should pay heed to. The situation sounds similar to here in Japan, where I work as a part-time university teacher at a high hourly wage. However, demographics are starting to put the squeeze on highly-paid full time positions.

I suppose the working environment will probably be about the same in other Asian countries except for the future student populations.

Yes indeed, it is wise to have an exit or "B" plan. Fools have no such plan in place and are the first to loudly complain about being mistreated by the system they don't bother to take the time to rationally analyze for their own benefit.

Old Thai Hand
01-06-07, 10:40
OTH

Thanks for the information, which those who wish to work in Thailand should pay heed to. The situation sounds similar to here in Japan, where I work as a part-time university teacher at a high hourly wage. However, demographics are starting to put the squeeze on highly-paid full time positions.

I suppose the working environment will probably be about the same in other Asian countries except for the future student populations.

Yes indeed, it is wise to have an exit or "B" plan. Fools have no such plan in place and are the first to loudly complain about being mistreated by the system they don't bother to take the time to rationally analyze for their own benefit.

I mentioned the following story in a post sometime ago, but it's worth repeating as a clear illustration of what can happen.

Silpakorn University in BKK, the number #1 Fine Arts university here had a newly-established International Multi-media BA program which they, quite rightly staffed with mainly qualified Farang faculty with a sprinkling of foreign-trained Thais. However, there was a 2-tier system of salaries with the Thais making only in the range of 15,000-25,000 baht/month while Farang were paid in the 40,000-60,000 range. Eventually the Thai faculty requested some move towards parity, although not equal salaries with the Farang faculty. Rather than raise the salaries of the Thais, the administration fired all the Farang faculty and hired Thais, many of whom could barely speak English. There was no warning, nor qualms on the part of the administration in breaking contracts, although in truth, the Farang could have sued for breach of contract. But, I'm sure none of them were aware of that because most were relatively new to the country. So, they all left without much of a fight. The program has basically collapsed, for obvious reasons and has become a bit of a laughing stock. Many of the students have dropped out and gone to another university which has a respectable International program with Farang faculty. Yet, Silpakorn refuses to acknowledge their mistake and in any event, they've left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth, that I doubt that they can retrive the situation.

BTW, the same thing happened to me in my first job here. However, I threatened to sue and they bought out my contract and then hired me back anyway, part-time.

The one way to minimize your vulnerability in any of these countries, whether Japan, Vietnam, Korea, China, Thailand or wherever, is to be as diversified as possible in your skills, so you have lots of options. Having just one area of expertise seriously leaves you vulnerable to nasty surprises without much recourse. I have a curricula of some 40 courses in 6 different disciplines, so I can always get a job and am always in demand here. But if you're just an ESL teacher, you're doomed to a life of low pay and abuse at the hands of employers.

The one positive thing in Thailand is that it's much less closed culturally than Japan, anyway, and there are more and more International and 2+2 programs opening at universities which will require more Farang professors (at least over the next 10 years) whether the Thais like it or not.

The Traveler
01-06-07, 13:04
...
In fact although Thai words have been converted to English letters the the sounds correspond to European languages like German more closly than to english pronunciation.
...
Mick,

I never referred to "English" letters (whatever that may be, actually we use the so called Latin alphabet) as English isn't my native tongue.

But I agree, there are more important issues to discuss with Opebo.
As already said, it was just an example that he will never admit a mistake no matter how small and unimportant it may be.

Opebo
01-06-07, 13:15
But I agree, there are more important issues to discuss with Opebo.
As already said, it was just an example that he will never admit a mistake no matter how small and unimportant it may be.

I assure you I would do so, The Traveler, if I were ever to make one.

Retired Army
01-07-07, 03:46
I assure you I would do so, The Traveler, if I were ever to make one.


Sounds just like George Bush. If you don't admit a mistake, then you haven't made one.

Fun Times69
01-07-07, 08:14
I have no definitive idea as I'm not an English teacher. But, I know of English teachers at my university in their 60s, who seem in no danger of losing their jobs.

However, having said that, at the end of the day, there is no job security for any Farang professor here, despite their absolute necessity. For example, I have an impeccable record and there literally is nobody in this country who can match my qualifications (not arrogance, just fact). Yet, I could be out the door at the next contract renewal, if they so decided and replaced by a far less-qualified, cheaper Farang or even cheaper Thai of minimal English-speaking competency.

The bottom line is that, although there are many Thais in power who care about quality education, whatever the price, and who are open-minded and not xenophobic, there are far more who don't care, or who are arrogant to think that Thai educators are equal to or better than Farang (which in most cases, they're not) and who are jealous of Farang who make higher salaries than they do.

I'm not particularly worried. But, I do have an exit plan.


From what I've heard from talking to English Teachers in Bangkok and by looking at the web it seems that after a couple of years you should expect to earn around 100,000 baht per month. Starting salaries for newly qualified teachers start at around 40,000 baht per month from what I remember.

The schools that accept 'teachers' whose sole qualfication is being a native speaker obviously are the worst employers whereas teachers with a decent qualification and some reasonable experience can expect more money and better treatment.

Do a google search and you'll get a number of sites that advertise teaching jobs. You'll get a good idea pretty quickly of what you can expect to earn.

Old Thai Hand
01-07-07, 10:54
From what I've heard from talking to English Teachers in Bangkok and by looking at the web it seems that after a couple of years you should expect to earn around 100,000 baht per month. Starting salaries for newly qualified teachers start at around 40,000 baht per month from what I remember.

The schools that accept 'teachers' whose sole qualfication is being a native speaker obviously are the worst employers whereas teachers with a decent qualification and some reasonable experience can expect more money and better treatment.

Do a google search and you'll get a number of sites that advertise teaching jobs. You'll get a good idea pretty quickly of what you can expect to earn.

No offense. You're talking to me like I'm some newbie who doesn't know anything. But, I'm sorry, but it's you who doesn't know what he's talking about. I've been teaching here for 10 years and know every possible salary configuration in the teaching profession from Primary school up to university. There is no way that English teachers, except possibly at the top 4 International schools (ISB, Bangkok Pattana, NIST, Ruamrudee) and 1 university (Chulalongkorn) are making anything close to 100,000/month and even that would require overloads and private work. For example, an English teacher at ISB, one of the top International schools would make about 50,000-60,000 at best as a base salary, while a computer teacher would make about 90,000-120,000, or about double that of an ESL teacher, depending on experience and qualifications. At Chulalongkorn University, the base salary for an English teacher is a mere 24,500. But, they can make 100,000 by teaching extra courses in the various International programs which pay 2,000/hour.

With the exception of visiting professors teaching at Sasin Business school, I'm probably the highest paid Farang university professor in this country and I barely make 100,000 as a base salary, although I make a lot more teaching even just 1 additional course.

As for doing a search on Google, it's not necessary.

The average salary ranges for ESL teachers can be seen on offer at Ajarn.com the #1 ESL job site in Thailand or more generally on Dave's ESL cafe.

Opebo
01-10-07, 06:33
I thought it might be a good idea to move this argumentative thread from the Bangkok Reports section to the Fight Club.



In some ways, I envy the mongers on this board - ignorance is truly bliss. They come for their 2 weeks, and meet what they think are hotties - (as you and I both know, mostly mediocre girls from the bottom of the barrel) - have a comparatively good time, anyway and then go home to dream about their next trip to LOS.

What is a 'hottie' is completely subjective, OTH, and the ultimate arbiter of sexual allure is one's erection, not the predjudices of the alien society in which one's hobby is pursued.


If you live here, you quickly realize through experience and availability (unless you're a complete bonehead) that P4P is boring, unacceptable and unsatisfying, but that the alternative, getting a regular girl (or several) is going to still cost you, just in a different way. It may also cost you in unexpected and dangerous ways.

Boring?! You consider spending more time with a woman, particularly time spent not having sex, to be more boring than fucking and leaving? Boredom is precisely why I don't want monogamy. P4P, particularly with freelancers, is far more interesting, and best of all one is free of them after a couple of hours. Bliss!


I'm having a similar problem to you with my GF... It could cost me, not just in money, but in other ways as well.

Your situation sounds unpleasant, OTH. I never have to worry about such things with prostitutes. But in fairness, if you have had to buy gold, pay for this and that, and subsidize a lifestyle, how is she not a prostitute, really? The answer is she is no different from my 400 baht Beach Road three holer, just more expensive. No offense meant, as I do not consider this an insult - prostitutes are my favorite women by far, and the cheapest are the ones I hold in the highest regard.

Old Thai Hand
01-10-07, 09:39
I thought it might be a good idea to move this argumentative thread from the Bangkok Reports section to the Fight Club....

....But in fairness, if you have had to buy gold, pay for this and that, and subsidize a lifestyle, how is she not a prostitute, really?

This is a discussion, not an argument or fight. There was no need to move it here.

While I won't argue your interpretation of what constitutes a prostitute because I think the term is subjective, especially in Thailand, I will point out that within Thai culture, fair or not, like it or not, it is expected of a man to buy gold for a woman and to pay for this or that. I don't mind, except when it gets out of hand and their is a sense of entitlement that kicks in. I had a GF before who although I gave her an allowance, saved every single baht and often bought things for me out of her savings. She was incredibly frugal. Unfortunately, this is rather rare in Thai-Farang relationships. Generally the money/gift flow is in one direction and can often turn into a hemorrhage. I think there is far more overall greed in the population here, especially among women, than one would experience in the West. The women are of course a lot nicer to be with and to look at than Western women. But, you pay through the nose for it.

Your other point, which I didn't quote above concerning what constitutes a "hottie" is correct. It is of course totally subjective. However, I think given a choice, both in terms of access and cost, most mongers would opt for something other than what is on offer to them. When I've been out with various Thai women over the years, I've seen mongers, walking hand-in-hand with their mediocre (IMHO) rent-a-dates who always look at me with obvious envy and in some case disbelief. On occasion, I've even had somewhat crass inquiries from one of these guys as to what bar I got my girl from. When I explain that she's not a BG, they look decidely disappointed ( and perhaps incredulous, at times, as well).

It is difficult to argue what constitutes beauty. I've tried and been the subject of vitriolic wrath from various quarters. All I can do is repeat that IMHO, and it's just my opinion, what's on offer in the P4P scene is not nearly of the same quality as one would find, say among the female students at my university.

But, of course as has often been said, in the dark, they all look the same.

M P Lurker
01-10-07, 11:24
While I won't argue your interpretation of what constitutes a prostitute because I think the term is subjective, especially in Thailand, I will point out that within Thai culture, fair or not, like it or not, it is expected of a man to buy gold for a woman and to pay for this or that. I don't mind, except when it gets out of hand and their is a sense of entitlement that kicks in. I had a GF before who although I gave her an allowance, saved every single baht and often bought things for me out of her savings. She was incredibly frugal. Unfortunately, this is rather rare in Thai-Farang relationships. Generally the money/gift flow is in one direction and can often turn into a hemorrhage. I think there is far more overall greed in the population here, especially among women, than one would experience in the West. The women are of course a lot nicer to be with and to look at than Western women. But, you pay through the nose for it.

I think that triying to identify what are "prostitutes" is a silly old fasioned concept. Many of us would agree that most women put out in return for some benefit (money, support, whatever) other than just the sex itself. My ex-wife was only actually horny and hot for it just once per month.
The problems with "non-prostitutes" is that you pay one way or another and get no sex or not enough in return.
If a girl provides good sex regularly, she is a blessing. Don't worry about her motives too much. Girls having sex for money is not an issue for me.
The real issue is whether they are putting on an act and being fake or whether they are being their real selves. Are they reliable?
If a girl really enjoys sex with a guy, how does it make any difference whether she accepted money, gold or other support from the guy. If a girl wanted me for sex alone, I would feel like some sort of stud and would have to think about changing my profession :-)
However it did make me feel at least "experienced" when a Thai girl told me that she had an orgasm, from oral sex for the first time, from me.

What guys really mean by a "girlfriend" is often "their exclusive property to fuck" girl. But a any long term relationship is O.K. by me to call a girlfriend.
Since I "cheat" on her, I must accept that she could potentially do so also. I am not particularly jealous, so I don't waste my time worrying what she might get up to when I am not there. She is clearly more honest than me.
While my last girl wanted gold often, my current girlfriend has never asked for gold. She did get a fancy mobile, an ipod, a camera, a computer for learning English and she has only just asked for one ring with a very small diamond.

A "hottie" to me must have may qualities to qualify: Good looking, wonderful smile, nice body, and oozes sexuality, preferably backed up by expert action (and not just tease).

Opebo
01-15-07, 12:09
...P4P mongering... the girls aren't that nice, the quality isn't there, they're low-class and aren't to your taste, anymore.

As I've said before, most expats worth a damn don't want to be seen with these girls in public, even just going to a short-time hotel. if they monger at all, most play the more discreet Thai market of massage parlors etc.

The exceptions to this are the low-class scum living in Pattaya who never get past the sex-tourist mind-set.

Your every post, OTH, seems to be another iteration of 'sex tourists are low-class scum'. In other words, you keep repeating endlessly - 'I don't like sex tourists'. Fair enough, but I can assure you we are familiar with your views on this subject, and with your hypocrisy. After all, brother, you pay a much younger Thai woman to have sex with you.

How about contributing some actual reports to warrant your 'old hand' moniker? I'm sure that many of my postings - in the appropriate, designated threads - could be considered opinionated or even argumentative, but I also take care to occasionally contribute substantive, informative reports. In fact - dare I say it - I take great pride in certain of my reports, particularly those about areas where little (or at least little up to date) information is available.

Aside from that, I would like to comment that the difficulty in the 'discreet Thai market', or of any Thai oriented sexual service provider, is that the service is almost unbelievably bad. Thai men apparently are not very demanding sexually, and the 'starfish' is the norm. If you have had experiences otherwise at some venues please contribute information - we all want to know.

Old Thai Hand
01-15-07, 14:31
o****

i have contributed a good deal in the past about living in thailand, thai culture and non-p4p thai women and will continue to do so.

for example: i taught you how to say "brothel", although you continue to mispell the transliteration - (it's song so-phanee, not, suphanee).

other than that, i don't have anything to contribute to mongering information because i don't monger, as such. more importantly, i've made it clear that i'm not interested in that 'scene'. i only play with regular thai women, whether you see them all as hookers, or not.

i have a gf, a gik or two, and that's it.

so, are you suggesting i stop posting, then? i will, if you will.

i dare say, that maybe i wouldn't be missed. but, i am positive that you wouldn't be missed at all. in fact, many would welcome your disappearance.

Opebo
01-15-07, 16:22
For example: I taught you how to say "brothel", although you continue to mispell the transliteration - (It's song so-phanee, not, suphanee).


Is that an 'O' sound, as on SOH? I've been saying SU or SOO, as in Soooophanee. More precisely Sooofanee, assuming the PH to be an F sound. Or is it a P?

I'll make it a multiple choice:

a) Soofanee?
b) Sohfanee?
c) Soopanee?
B) Sohpanee?

Speaking of that all important phrase, 'song' sounds so very nearly the same as 'song' for number two that it is exceedingly difficult to be understood. Of course there are different tones involved, but these leave a lot more room for confusion than would another word. Are there any other commonly used terms for brothel?

By the way thank you in advance, and for your contributions in general - I think you and I would both be missed.

Traveler1234
01-15-07, 16:43
I thought it might be a good idea to move this argumentative thread from the Bangkok Reports section to the Fight Club.



Opebo - many thanks for keeping this thread alive. ISG sometimes gets boring without posters like you to keep us entertained....:D

Keep up the good work and maybe you'll even get your own thread, eg martians in thailand!

Old Thai Hand
01-15-07, 16:44
Sohng Soh - Pan-nee

Sohng = saw + sew (half way between the two sounds) + ng...with rising tone

Song (2) = saw + ng...with rising tone

It is confusing because they sound almost the same to the uneducated ear.

Ph = P in transliteration
P = PB in transliteration

This is what you need in Thai. Maybe just print it out and show the motocycle taxi guy.

ซ่องโสเภณี

Opebo
01-15-07, 17:04
Keep up the good work and maybe you'll even get your own thread, eg martians in thailand!

If I am understanding correctly the rules of behaviour on this forum, I don't see any reason for such an action, Traveler1234. I contribute factual reports of my experiences in the regionally appropriate informational threads, and confine any disputation to this thread, or one of a couple of others that are opinion based, such as 'Morality of Prostitution' or 'American Women'.

Traveler1234
01-15-07, 17:45
If I am understanding correctly the rules of behaviour on this forum, I don't see any reason for such an action, Traveler1234. I contribute factual reports of my experiences in the regionally appropriate informational threads, and confine any disputation to this thread, or one of a couple of others that are opinion based, such as 'Morality of Prostitution' or 'American Women'.

Relax, you missed the ":D" from my first line?

Opebo
02-18-07, 10:06
if he was playing with a 12 year old he got off more lightly than he deserved. he deserved to be hung up by the balls first. no sympathy from me.

ozirob

i'm sure there are many who disapprove of your sexuality, ozirob-monger. for that reason should you be hung up by your little eggs?


while i enjoyed your story, i can't help wonder at your motive in lamenting the death of the german ****. good riddance to bad rubbish, i say. it reminds me of the other story about a year or so ago of another german who was roaming around udon trying to infect young things with hiv. there's simply no room in the world for these kind of people.
if in fact the police killed the ****, this is of course, morally wrong. but, i don't think there are many who would share your level of moral outrage at this "crime". most, like ozirob and i would say he got what he deserved from whoever meted out that "justice".

i'm sure it is not allowed to express certain opinions upon this board, oth, and so i will not. but let me say that i do not share your intolerance.

as for the case in point, it was almost certainly entrapment or complete fiction - after all what do you think the police are? they are a gang which robs who they can get away with robbing. even if 'something happened', i have no doubt he paid for the service rendered, and that she was glad to have the money. only a prude would consider a mere sex act to be a disaster in a young person's life.

the larger point is you are very foolish to ever side with the police against your brother. give him the benefit of the doubt, because certainly we all know what they are up to. and you and i are next.

Old Thai Hand
02-18-07, 11:45
o****

personally, i don't like much about the thai police and i admit a certain discomfort at the suspicious way in which the **** died. still, if wishing ill towards a **** is intolerance, then i'm guilty as charged.

while i'm not interested in debating this with you, i don't think that you'll find anyone here who shares your tolerance of the ****'s sexuality.

Opebo
02-18-07, 17:14
...i don't like much about the thai police and i admit a certain discomfort at the suspicious way in which the (1) **** died. still, if wishing ill towards a (2) **** is intolerance, then i'm guilty as charged.

while i'm not interested in debating this with you, i don't think that you'll find anyone here who shares your tolerance of the (3) ****'s (4) sexuality.

you omitted the word 'alleged' at least four times in your document, old thai-hand. i will not touch upon the other issues, as they are not permitted here.

Opebo
02-18-07, 18:24
the alleged suicide **** was certainly not one of my brothers. better to speak for yourself. do you condone the alleged ****'s alleged acts? i don't. i must be a prude.

dear piper, how do you know he was not one of your brothers? certainly any monger - any one of us - could be accused, set up, railroaded in just the fashion this man was. why would we believe our enemies the police instead of one of our own?

as for the other issue you mention i do not believe discussion of same is permitted here. i suppose i could thump my chest and say, 'yeah, string um up, by der balls!' like everyone else in the lynch mob, but is my understanding that simple censorship demands only our silence, not our parroting of the officially approved viewpoint.

Opebo
02-18-07, 19:04
It would have been simpler to reply "No I don't condone".

Unless of course ...

Alright Piper - I love Big Brother. Happy now?

Seriously my man, I will not discuss the issue, as it is my understanding that it is not permitted. I will post the definition of 'condone' however, just for fun:

con∑done /kənˈdoʊn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhn-dohn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
Ėverb (used with object), -doned, -don∑ing. 1. to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).
2. to give tacit approval to: By his silence, he seemed to condone their behavior.
3. to pardon or forgive (an offense); excuse.
4. to cause the condonation of.
5. Law. to forgive or act so as to imply forgiveness of (a violation of the marriage vow).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1615Ė25, but in general currency from its use in the British Divorce Act of 1857 (see def. 5); < L condōnāre to absolve, grant pardon, equiv. to con- con- + dōnāre to give; see donate]

Rubber Nursey
02-19-07, 01:40
i generally try to stay out of the thai section these days, but as this is the fight club, i guess it doesn't matter so much if my presence causes some irritation.

i'm not going to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of 'child prostitution' - my moral position would probably surprise many of you, anyway. what i will say is that in most of the world, the 'legal' prostitution age (that is, the age below which it becomes a child-sex offence, rather than a prostitution offence) is 18 years old. regardless of that particular 12 year old's previous sexual experience, financial position, or emotional/psychological capacity to consent to the act, the man in question was committing a crime. by law, he was not a monger, but a paedophile.

i actually agree with opebo's comments on the police action. we can't just have police killing off anyone they believe to be engaging in delinquent behaviour - the 'normal' p4p sex with consenting adult women that you guys all participate in, is considered by many to be just as abhorrent as paedophilia. i don't fancy being shot in the street because some rogue copper thinks hookers are a scourge on society.

that said, opebo, i was very disappointed by this comment you made: "i have no doubt he paid for the service rendered, and that she was glad to have the money".
i highly doubt that a 12 year old would be hocking her ass for a 'bit of a lark' - so yeah, she probably really needed the money. but for crying out loud, the spare change that guy had rattling around in the bottom of his pocket probably would have been enough to feed her for a week. he could have handed her some of that money and sent her on her way. he did not have to have sex with her. he took advantage of a desperate child to satisfy his own sexual desires. the fact that she may have done this before, and probably will again when the next client walks in, is no excuse.

if a woman was being raped in front of you at a party, would you join in? she's been raped by one guy already - would it really hurt if you made it two? for that matter, why not invite your mates to have a go as well...two guys, ten guys, the damage is done already, yeah?

Opebo
02-19-07, 03:45
We cannot discuss this issue here, Rubber Nursey. All I would like to remind people is that nothing was proven against this man, and it was almost certainly a setup. Having sex with very young women is normal practice for Thais of course, but that is not a comment upon the acceptability of same, only on their hypocrisy. They persue such cases out of a desire to 'put a meal on the table' as Humble Turd so eloquently put it.

In any case, I didn't mean to imply that they stuffed his socks in his mouth, broke his glasses, and slit his wrists. What I meant by murder was the arrest/frame up itself, as well as the implication of all that was about to happen to him in their hands.

Rubber Nursey
02-19-07, 04:12
i had no plans of taking the paedophilia discussion any further. it wasn't even the issue of **** prostitution that i was really addressing - i was more concerned that you appear to consider this man having sex with a child to be 'normal' mongering behaviour.

maybe i live in a fantasy land, but i believe we all have a duty to protect the vulnerable members of our society. whether that's a homeless child having sex for favours, or an adult woman kidnapped and forced into a brothel, or even the junkie street worker who is too stoned to realise she charged you 5 bucks instead of 50...if everyone said no to these exploitative situations, there would be no exploitation. what upsets me is seeing men who only think with their dicks, not with their hearts.

Opebo
02-20-07, 04:50
i'm not sure what '****'(philia) has to do with the act to which you refer. such an act would more correctly be described as evidence of ephebophilia, though it could have been merely the result of availability or error rather than evidence of any preference.

regardless, i believe that you may be violating forum rules by mentioning such acts and preferences.

as for your habit of posting leading questions to your brothers - why do you think anyone would participate in your game? as you well know there is only one permissible answer to your question, thus a response is meaningless; and i already recited 'i love big brother' for you.

Opebo
02-20-07, 05:01
I already declined to answer that question, Piper. Do you have any other topics you would like to discuss?

Opebo
02-20-07, 06:27
No, I think we should deal with your problem first.

I hope by 'problem' you mean my tolerance - as for my own tastes they tend to run as of late in the 25-35 range (more three holers, don't you know).

M P Lurker
02-20-07, 11:54
as for the 60 year-old man who allegedly fucked a little 12 then died in prison - that's not the point. we brothers would like to hear from opebo about the fact that he seems to condone such **** sex.

opebo, here's an easy question: do you think it's okay for a **** to be fucking a 12?

(no waffling this time old man. it's a simple 'yes or no' answer.)
piper1,

we all know that are some very oung girls around who want to be fucked and certainly will get what they want somwhere somehow (thats why so many young girls get pregnant). the exact age doesn't matter. its not so much that it is evil to fuck girls under 18, assuming that they really want it, its just that it is not legal. its as simple as that. therefore the 80 year old is stuck in prison. he must have known the risks.
at what age is a girl mature enough to decide for herself whether sex is a good idea for her? that is too hard to answer. but many girls well under 18 will certainly decide they want it. after that it is better to just consider what precautions to take to be safe.
these days a high percentage of 14 year olds a not virgins i believe.

girls under 18 are obviously the subject of discrimination in that they will cannot earn a living by fucking unless they can et enough under 18 guys which seems most unlikely.

i am not a ****, since i don't have a psychological need for extremely young girls. sticking to over 18 is no burden at all.
i personally prefer girls over 25 but have found some younger girls e.g. 19 year olds to be really good fucks and to have nice bodies.
18 years old is an arbitary limit not to be crossed, but i am sure guys have done it inadvertantly. girls can even have fake ids potentially .

i don't condemn guys having consentual sex with girls under 18 but the guys know the risks.

Old Thai Hand
02-20-07, 13:15
gentleman

a 12 y.o. thai girl is not emotionally/pychologically mature enough to have sex, no matter on which side of this issue your opinion lies.

when i first started teaching here, i was warned to expect a maturity level among my students, roughly 7 years lower than chronological age. this assessment by an experienced foreign teacher 10 years ago has proven to be so accurate, that it is the benchmark by which i assess most of my thai students.

while your average 12 y.o. american girl is pretty mature and street savvy these days, what with influences from mass media and her peers, and because of modern diet etc. often has a body that belies her chronological age, legalities aside, most still wouldn't consider her adult enough for sex. a thai girl of similar age is emotionally more like a 5 y.o. by comparison and therefore is by any definition not capable of making an informed decision about sex or anything else remotely related to adult life.

therefore anyone attempting sex with such a girl is in reality exploiting a child with a child's mind, even if her body may be somewhat developed.

while o****'s use of the term 'ephebophilia' might be realistically argued in a similar situation in western culture, the only term appropriate here in the context of thai culture and thai maturity levels is '****philia'.

RCA Knight
02-20-07, 17:25
i think the 18 year adulthood should just be a guideline. girls reach mental maturity at different speed. i think the questions that deserve more attention than the 18 guideline is:

1. is the girl consciously aware what pay sex is?
2. is the girl willing to do it herself (not forced)?
3. does she know exactly what rewards are and what risks it involves?
4. does she personaly keep the rewards(not taken away by others)?
5. does she know how to protect herself from the risks?

if the answers are all yes, i think she is consciously mature enough to decide for herself to work in this field or not.

Petemcc
02-20-07, 21:59
editor's note: this report was deleted in accordance with the forum's policy prohibiting any references to any persons under the age of 18. this action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. please read the forum's posting guidelines for further information. thanks!

PosterLion
02-21-07, 01:29
editor's note: this report was deleted in accordance with the forum's policy prohibiting any references to any persons under the age of 18. this action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. please read the forum's posting guidelines for further information. thanks!

Bumholes1
02-21-07, 03:44
editor's note: this report was deleted in accordance with the forum's policy prohibiting any references to any persons under the age of 18. this action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. please read the forum's posting guidelines for further information. thanks!

Bumholes1
02-21-07, 08:24
editor's note: this report was deleted in accordance with the forum's policy prohibiting any references to any persons under the age of 18. this action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. please read the forum's posting guidelines for further information. thanks!

RCA Knight
02-21-07, 13:03
editor's note: this report was deleted in accordance with the forum's policy prohibiting any references to any persons under the age of 18. this action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. please read the forum's posting guidelines for further information. thanks!

M P Lurker
02-22-07, 10:09
gentleman

a 12 y.o. thai girl is not emotionally/pychologically mature enough to have sex, no matter on which side of this issue your opinion lies.
<cut>

while i completely understand your view, i don't understand at what age a girl is ready for sex and what age she is permitted to engage in sex.
its probably unlikely that a 12 twelve year old is ready. same applies to boys.

i not really discussing ****philia at all since i am not thinking of old guys who have a pschological need to dominate extra young girls or can only be turned on by children. i don't understand those people at all.

however if an older woman has it off with an **** boy, say 16 years old, far from being scarred for life, he appreciates his early training and fun.
it seems a little old fashioned to lock up the woman for corrupting this young eager boy. he may be emotionally scarred by the woman's senseless punishment. i wish i got some more when i was a teenager instead of having to rely on hookers to give me practical experience after i reached the age of 18 so that i wouln't be dismal performer with my first girlfriend.

so supposing that a 12 year girl has sex with a 14 year old boy at similar level of sexual maturity (not much). they have fun experimenting out of curiosity and thrill seeking.
who was at fault? should either be punished? or is it o.k.? or why not? is sex really bad when its not forced?

o.k. i accept that it is bad for a much older guy to manipulate such a young girl. its also bad for us older guys to get manipulated by 20 year old cunning girls. (just a joke :-))
i accept the law that a girl is not fair game for me until she reaches the age of 18, but am puzzled by the severe punishment for those who trnasgressed with girls a little **** who wanted to do it. of the old bloke who had to have a 12 year should obviously cop it heavily. perhaps the punishment should be proportional to number of years under 18 together with the psychological impact on the girl who was abused.

apologies for failing to get emotionally carried away with this age issue and trying to nut it out logically. also i am possibly on a tangent to the ****philia issue.

i would tell my daughter: "sex is supposed to be fun. not evil. so if you desperately want to do it at age 14 or 15 or whatever, choose a nice boy and take the precautions which she should be well educated in. don't do it in a dangerous place. finally appreciate that inexperienced people are not skilled in sex." we know well that banning teenagers from sex just doesn't work.

Old Thai Hand
02-22-07, 13:41
so supposing that a 12 year girl has sex with a 14 year old boy at similar level of sexual maturity (not much). they have fun experimenting out of curiosity and thrill seeking.
who was at fault? should either be punished? or is it o.k.? or why not? is sex really bad when its not forced?

this is one of the anomalies of thai law. if 2 teenagers of a similar age (14 and 12, for example) have sex, it is not illegal. but, if an older man has sex with a girl under 17 (not 18), it is statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123). teenagers can marry (thai style) with parental consent at 15, but cannot register the marriage officially until they are both 17. parental consent is required for marriage to anyone under 20. this applies to anyone. so, theoretically, as long as the parents agree, an old farang (or thai) geezer could officially marry a thai girl who is 17 or over. it is also legal to have sex with a girl once she is 17. but, a girl can't work in a bar until she's 18.

seven or eight years ago, there used to be loads of **** freelancers around, especially at nana parking lot and the thermae. some were as young as 13. there were even some in gogos at both nana and cowboy. you had to be very careful back then. but, with the social order campaign, they all but disappeared a long time ago. i think if there are still any around bangkok or pattaya, they are very definitely on the fringes.

so, anyone looking for this kind of thing is consciously doing so and should suffer the legal consequences.

Phantomtiger2
02-22-07, 20:17
. i think if there are still any around bangkok or pattaya, they are very definitely on the fringes.

so, anyone looking for this kind of thing is consciously doing so and should suffer the legal consequences.


came across a situation last year while visiting pattaya. it was late -1am or so and just leaving the beer bar. one of the bar gal had a friend of hers sitting by the bar side waiting for her to leave--so she didnt work for the bar. she came over to chat with me in very limited english. i ask if she wanted a drink but said she can not?--i looked at her again and began to suspect she was ****. her friend the bar gal came over and ask if i wanted to take her to my hotel. before i answer, i asked how old and bar gal said her friend was 18. i said didnt really believe her and ask if she had id to show me (jokingly of course) but hesitate and response was she had no id with her--i knew now she was **** (i'd say 16 or so). so i declined. then bar gal said if i wanted her instead and said she was 19 and admitted her friend was "much younger than she was".

so sometimes they are still out there and don't need to go looking for it as it can come to you unexpectantly, so still need to be aware.


pt

The Traveler
02-22-07, 22:21
oth,

please allow me a few corrections :



this is one of the anomalies of thai law. if 2 teenagers of a similar age (14 and 12, for example) have sex, it is not illegal.

as you rightfully said, parental consent is required until the age of 20, but not only for marriage.
in fact parental consent is required for most "offical" issues and a so called "bai yim yom" must be signed by both parents.

due to this, the 14yr old boy can be prosecuted in case the parents of the girl decide to sue him. it's completely up to the parents to decide if they want the boy to be punished (file charges), if they settle the case for some money (private matter) or if they lay it to rest.

usually parents try to keep such things secret as it is a "loss of face", but if not they usually aim for the money to make up for the loss of a better dowry in the future for a virgin.




but, if an older man has sex with a girl under 17 (not 18), it is statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123).
...
it is also legal to have sex with a girl once she is 17.

15 is the age of consent in los.
nevertheless, the above mentioned parental consent still applies until the age of 18 regarding the sexual behaviour.


having sex with someone below the age of 15 is a crime due to thai law and law enforcement will be after you, no matter what.

between the age of 15 and 18 it is up to the girl or her parents to sue you, even if you engaged in agreed sex. so the parents can put you in trouble even if the girl doesn't agree that her parents take actions against you.

above 18 it's all up to the girl, her parents can't sue you anymore for having had sex with her.


so the conclusion is, that you are only safe from trouble if the girl is above 18.
but be careful, if a thai tells you being 18yo, he/she will be in fact 17yo. thais use to count every year of age that has started, while we only count every year that was already finished.

Old Thai Hand
02-23-07, 01:26
trav

i think you're correct, although different references give slightly different facts.

for example, wikipedia states:

the age of consent in thailand is 15 (with the below caveat) as specified by article 279 of the thai criminal code. the current legislation applies to both men and women, although it is a common misconception that it applies only to women.

however parts of the prevention and suppression of prostitution act [2] which disallow any sexual contact with prostitutes under the age of 18, are widely interpreted by some local authorities to cover sexual acts classed as "obscenity for personal gratification". this ostensibly makes the thai unfettered age of consent 18.

a high profile example of this application of the law was a statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) charge filed against the lead singer of the thai band big ass for allegedly having had sex with a (then) 16 year old girl (the singer has since been cleared of these charges due to the results of a paternity test)

Opebo
02-23-07, 02:32
The essential point is that Thailand, like all other countries, is a Police State, and anyone may be charged with such 'crimes' at any time. This applies not only to the crime of sex, but of drugs usage. These laws serve a dual purpose in pleasing the miserable majority who are languishing in anhedonic monogamy, and allowing the forces of social control to arrest and jail anyone they like. The only way out of such things has nothing to do with whether one actually commited the acts in question, but the amount of money (power) available in one's 'defense'.

So far in Thailand people are generally set up only if they become known to Control. This includes bar owners, and other long term residents who either fail to provide the police with shakedown money or somehow offend the 'face' of these local thugs. However as the State becomes more and more 'anti prostitution' in terms of popular politics, publicity, and international pressure, more transient mongers will be scooped up like this. This sort of oppression is just another symptom of a problem I have been lamenting ever since I first ventured outside the Bad Place - american fascism and prudery is taking over the world.

The Traveler
02-23-07, 07:07
OTH,

yes, you are correct, the age of consent is 15.
Sorry for my typo (stating 16), but as you can see below, I referred to 15 as the age of consent in the whole rest of my post.

It is also correct that The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act disallows any sexual contact with "any person" (not just protitutes) below the age of 18 for personal gratification IN PLACES FOR PROSTITUTION.

This is a very important restriction, otherwise agreed sex between people below the age of 18 would be a crime too and must be prosecuted, but in fact it is only a private matter and not covered by the Thai Civil Code or Penal Code. Nevertheless parents can try to sue you even though they walk on thin ice.

Additionally these places for prostitution aren't exactly defined but are usually interpreted as steam baths, massage parlours and the like, due to the fact, that the appropriate tax laws names those locations. Just another contradiction of Thai Law, prostitution is forbidden but is being taxed.

This is also an indication, that the sex business sector is targeted rather than sex that you may have in privacy at home.

RCA Knight
02-23-07, 07:34
I was reading about the accused German pediphile's myeterious death(murder) on some other non-English and English discussion forums, and this case definitely very very fishy.

Usually a foreigner died in strange circumstances, there would be an compulsory autopsy by high level coroner, but this case was hastily finished off without any investigation. German embassy and a few local resident German pressed the investigation but without any success.

Some of the discussion members suggest, this might very possibly be a case of police set up for extortion, and somewhere the plan gone wrong, and the Thai authority decided to perform their "dead man don't talk" strategy. So case closed.

Another suggested possibility by some members in the discussion was it was a fraudulent arrest, the girl turned out to be not a minor at all, to save lots of monkey faces, they conduct again their best strategy, dead man can't complain, faces saved, case closed.

But the first one was the most highly probable, since the authority was in such a hurry to finish him off, because he probably found out he had been set up, and again in Thailand, dead man can't talk closed the case.

Phantomtiger2
02-23-07, 19:58
I was reading about the accused German pediphile's myeterious death(murder) on some other non-English and English discussion forums, and this case definitely very very fishy.

.


Many cases that are closed falls into the "fishy" category.
I remember a case about 2 years ago when I was in pattaya. Farang found dead in his apartment with a knive still stuck in his back. Case was ruled a suicide and closed.
Thailand CSI team is the tops on my books.

PT

Opebo
02-28-07, 02:37
brothers, i applaud your very humane reaction to the sad case of our little brother billy:


billy,

guys like you sicken me.
it's called [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and a crime.


i was also astonished by this post by "billy"

this guy is an evil, sick fuck!

however, let us not condemn him by the same error that lies behind his hubris. billy is a worker, brothers, who is subjected - as are all workers - to humiliation every day. alas, he is unenlightened, and tries to assuage his damaged psyche by inflicting pain and humiliation on those just beneath him in the brutal social heirarchy. because billy lives on his knees, he likes to pretend for a few breif moments he is the one receiving the obeisance. he is certainly not 'evil', but rather a confused, frightened monkey.

billy [CodeWord110] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord110) on his sisters and brothers, unaware of the hollow nature of his hubris. i can only pity the pathetic billy, and my only desire would be to educate and reform him rather than punish.

Opebo
02-28-07, 06:50
Regarding Surfer's suggestion to ban Billy Ibrox:


ISG rules state zero tolerance for discussion of "ladyboys". While there is no explicit rule against offensive, ant****ial posts with extreme and outrageous content offensive to any reasonable monger, those facts in aggravation validate the jury's verdict that BillyIbrox must be relegated to the Hall of Shame.


While I share your dismay at Billy's lack of self-awareness (see post below), I would put in a word for allowing him to remain with us. I don't believe he intended to focus upon the ladyboys, and he has on rare occasions contributed useful information, for example in the very post in question.

I have visited the soi to which he refers once a couple of years ago, and saw no more than two or three persons there. Thus regardless of one's taste, the pickings were so slim that it wasn't worth the drive - at least in those heady dasy of Beach Road plenty. Perhaps since then more have joined, and certainly the numbers on the Beach are very very few.

Pirate1
03-14-07, 23:19
Hey Guys,

Might I suggest all this discussion on spelling etc. be moved to a more appropriate place, like the Fight Club or perhaps even the Photo chit chat threads.

PTI wantz all you mates to know we are not all English perfectionist here. We should be happy we all understand (for the most part) what other members are saying to us all. I am new here and I write the way I talk (mostly). Its my informal style and much more fun this wayz. Not the same as my work reports as I need to be more professional. If I wantz, dunn have to make any mistakes and use spell check etc. But dunn like to as my stories sound better when you read it and will be exactly as I would tell it.-tone and all..-my bad only.

Pirate1

===========================================

Hi Pirate1,

I can tell you that personally I would sincerely appreciate it if you could extend to me the courtesy of composing your forum contributions in the same style and quality of writing that you utilize in your professional communications.

Thanks,

Jackson

Opebo
03-18-07, 14:07
is not like the others. One of these things does not belong.

Bizarrely, we have an old lady who hates sex tourists posting upon this board for sex tourists:


Hua Hin or Chiang Mai offer a hell of a lot more than Pattaya. I have several friends who retired to Pattaya, bought places and now regret their decision. They all describe the place as a sewer full of sex tourists, skanks and Euro trash.

(Even worse, he hates skanks! This site is dedicated to the pursuit of skanks. Ah well.)

Old Thai Hand
03-18-07, 15:19
This site is dedicated to the pursuit of skanks. Ah well.)

"The InternationaSexGuide Forum is a FREE forum for the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women."

Nowhere in this statement from Jackson does it expressly say that ISG's purpose is "dedicated to the pursuit of skanks". That the Thai board has in the last year or two been completely taken over by just those sorts of 'tourists' who are looking for said skanks does not preclude the original mandate of the sight.

It is for those of us, who don't pursue 'skanks' to post the alternatives that some may actually be interested in hearing about.

Old Thai Hand
03-18-07, 17:42
Trav

Trav

Of course there are regular people in Pattaya and I'm sure they're really lovely people. But, that's not what it's known for and certainly they have little impact on the overall tone of the place.

Your assessment of Hua Hin is complete crap. I lived there for 4 years and was back quite recently. While there's been a lot of development, I would hardly compare it to Pattaya in any way shape or form. It is a much nicer place in every regard and generally the expats there are better educated, more prosperous and better behaved than the Pattaya gang. The locals haven't developed that hardened edge that you find in Pattaya.

My proximity to Cowboy (I'm actually closer to Emporium) has nothing to do with Cowboy, as I rarely go there. It has everything to do with the fact that I divide my time between two universities and it's about half way between the two. In any event, I will be moving from here as I can't stomach the increasing number of beer bars and crap that they're attracting. As always happens when these kind of places move in, the whole atmosphere of the place nose-dives. When I moved into my condo, it was full of a nice group of tenants. Now it's over-run with Farang scum and their bar-girl GFs.

Trav. You're a noble and egalitarian man who loves everyone and everything from stray puppies to poor Isaan skanks... I'm sorry. Call me a classist, racist or whatever. But, I don't share you're sympathetic view of their nobility.

The Traveler
03-18-07, 20:04
Trav. You're a noble and egalitarian man who loves everyone and everything from stray puppies to poor Isaan skanks... I'm sorry. Call me a classist, racist or whatever. But, I don't share you're sympathetic view of their nobility.
OTH,

I hope you don't deny the fact, that Hua Hin was once a lovely small fishing village with a nice night market and has now turned into a major tourist destination with high rising hotels and all side effects like bars and so on.

Maybe I got a worse impression of the place than it really is because the last time I have been there was during Songkran when people are less well behaved and act even more like idiots than they usually do.

Nevertheless, I think the major difference between the two of us is simply the fact that you seem to prefer to put people in boxes and classes while I always only judge on a person to person basis.

I was brought up with the belief that all people are equal - no matter what race, religion, financial or social background they have - unless until they prove otherwise by their behaviour.
With all due respect and without any intent to flame you, but I deeply believe that only people without any class believe to have class and to be better than others. Those with real class don't need to emphasize it all the time.

And what makes you so much better than others ?

Don't forget that you will be a foreigner and tourist almost everywhere in the world and that even bargirls may have valid reasons for having choosen that kind of profession. Guess what you would have done being in their position and not being born into a much better life with far more opportunities.

Retired Army
03-18-07, 20:24
(Even worse, he hates skanks! This site is dedicated to the pursuit of skanks. Ah well.)

Opebo,

I usually ignore your postings, for good reason. But this one was too good to pass up. I don't hate skanks, I just don't have anything to do with them, much like you. Someone has to love them and I will leave that up to you. That seems to be the kind of woman to whom you are attracted, and I am sure that they are attracted to you. Birds of a feather and all that crap...

Pirate1
03-18-07, 21:06
Yeh, for people like me with no choose cause no choice. Live not near any place for nice pickme up at home. Dunn travel far as me girl at home suspecious and have the man follow me ass around. Only have me random nearby driveby trucker stops for action. Ladies not the best but itz them skanks or me hand, so skanks it is.


pirate1

Giotto
03-19-07, 07:25
...
With all due respect and without any intent to flame you, but I deeply believe that only people without any class believe to have class and to be better than others. Those with real class don't need to emphasize it all the time.

And what makes you so much better than others ?
...I love it.

OldThaiHand, come on, man, what is it that makes you so much better than me :) ?


Giotto

Retired Army
03-19-07, 07:40
Yeh, for people like me with no choose cause no choice. Live not near any place for nice pickme up at home. Dunn travel far as me girl at home suspecious and have the man follow me ass around. Only have me random nearby driveby trucker stops for action. Ladies not the best but itz them skanks or me hand, so skanks it is.


pirate1

Pirate,

Yeah, we understand that in other countries skanks may be the only outlet available; but, in Thailand? Just about any guy who is half-way decent can get a good Thai girl friend. If for no other reason than the size of their cock and the promise of a better life for them and their family.

Old Thai Hand
03-19-07, 10:36
I love it.

OldThaiHand, come on, man, what is it that makes you so much better than me :) ?


Giotto

5 times in 5 hours!

Giotto
03-19-07, 10:41
5 times in 5 hours!OldThaiHand,

OK, that's an argument. I concede defeat!


Giotto

Retired Army
03-19-07, 11:30
5 times in 5 hours!

peeing doesn't count.

LittleBigMan
03-19-07, 11:34
Gentleman,

Although, I have been coming to Thailand consistently for years. I have not lived here like so many of you. I came to visiting Pattaya years ago because I just couldn't stand Bangkok particularly the traffic and the highrises. A friend suggested Pattaya and I agreed and have since been coming here and now reside here. For the last 6 years I have spent majority of my time living on the other side of Sukhumvit ( Bunglamung ) with your basic normal Thai's. From the conversations I believe that everyone refers to Beach Road, Walking Street and more popular mongering area's but honestly how can anyone being of open and intelligent mind say that Pattaya is a shit hole.

I have met some very good Thai people and for reasons,opinions, and experiences with the more educated and wealthy Thai's the majority of them I want to smack them on the side of the head " because they should know better ".

I came to Pattaya thinking the complete opposite of OTH, because my experience and opinion of Bangkok was that it was a real shit hole. Now the last few years I have come to know Bangkok better and welcome it as what it is and try to enjoy it. Pattaya for me and I'm sure many of you will continue to think otherwise but it is smaller more accessible and certainly more open to get around.

When it comes to corruption what isn't. Bangkok is larger and Pattaya is more visible certainly for the media. Does anyone really think the government would allow Bangkok the capital to be displayed nightly on T.V. the crime and the accidents like they do in Pattaya.

Now I can speak only of Pattaya and Bangkok, that each has it's share of shit holes but in the end there is also good things in each. As for the rest of the country I have not seen it and hopefully I will soon with a open mind.

LBM

SidTheSexist
03-19-07, 12:31
Pattaya is a shithole on par with Blackpool, UK. Its still a fucking great place though!

Old Thai Hand
03-19-07, 13:59
People get SO defensive about Pattaya. If you like it, more power to you.

I don't and simply expressed an opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone.

If P4P mongering was my principal source of women, and if my taste ran to the appearance of the sort of girls one finds in Pattaya, then I would probably have a different opinion, love it just as others do and retire there.

But, I'm different, have different tastes than most on here and rely on regular TGs for my jolies. Therefore, I can opt to be pickier about where I ultimately decide to settle down.

At the moment, I live in Bangers, have a good job and actually enjoy the city more than most. The choice of women here simply can't be beat, anywhere.

I had a 19 y.o. student leave me a love note, today. Where else would that happen, but here?

Opebo
03-19-07, 14:20
I had a 19 y.o. student leave me a love note, today. Where else would that happen, but here?

I'm sure that happens all over the world, OTH, though I suspect the requisite level of professorial attractiveness is much lower here.



Yeah, we understand that in other countries skanks may be the only outlet available; but, in Thailand? Just about any guy who is half-way decent can get a good Thai girl friend. If for no other reason than the size of their cock and the promise of a better life for them and their family.

Why would anyone want a 'good Thai girl friend'?! Prostitution is much more appealing. All the benefits and none of the horribleness. That said I do have a 'nice Thai girl friend', I just go to Pattaya anyway. Christ if I wanted the boring life of monogamy I could've stayed home.

What I always liked about Pattaya was that I could have anal sex with three different girls per day for a week. I've often spent a week in Pattaya without fucking a single vagina. Nowadays I can still breeze into town and be balls deep in an anus within an hour, sans preservatif and for only 500 baht, though obviously the selection is way, way down.

Traveler1234
03-19-07, 15:01
5 times in 5 hours!

Which hand, left or right .... LOL

Member #2041
03-19-07, 18:07
I had a 19 y.o. student leave me a love note, today. Where else would that happen, but here?
It happens anywhere that the student's grades are somewhat below where they want/need them to be.

Retired Army
03-19-07, 19:46
Gentleman,

but honestly how can anyone being of open and intelligent mind say that Pattaya is a shit hole.


LBM

It's not that we don't like Pattaya, just the kind of people that it attracts.

Pirate1
03-19-07, 21:51
It's not that we don't like Pattaya, just the kind of people that it attracts.


Hey???????
Zee place attracts me as me like to excape homeland skanks at zee truckpits to be with Pattie skanks. Me not so bad person, only need to be service by Pattie honies daily. Not ask for much in life.


Pirate1

The Traveler
03-19-07, 23:46
People get SO defensive about Pattaya. If you like it, more power to you.
I don't and simply expressed an opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone...

Pattaya is the worst example of unchecked, rampant development and attracts the worst sort of human garbage. Read the endless stream of murder, assault, robbery and general mayhem in the Pattaya News. What intelligent, educated person possessing any class at all would want to settle down in this sesspool? ...

There are much nicer places in Thailand to sit and look at the sea, play the iincredibly boring game of golf and meet a better class of woman.
IMHO, anyone living in LOS and still going down to gogo bars every day to pick up skanks is nothing more than a rahter sad form of newbie.

OTH;

you do far more than just expressing an opinion, you devaluate every single citizen of Pattaya - may it be Thai, expat or tourist - and look down on them.

Additionally I am not defensive about Pattaya, I agree that many things have turned the wrong way during the last 20yrs and I often don't like what I see, in Pattaya AND Bangkok.

I rather oppose your unjustified generalisations, saying that all women in Pattaya are skanks and all tourists/foreigners there must be crap. That's complete nonsense and I guess you know that very well. I can only assume that you simply want to provoke as I don't believe that you are that stupid and being unable to differentiate.

Or maybe you just need to pat yourself on the back and tell yourself what a smart guy you are having choosen the "right" place to live, which makes "your" place superior to others as you are superior to those who just come to LOS for holiday and therefore lack of time and occasion of .getting a regular Thai GF. Let's not forget, all P4P must be bad people and are less worth (and of course less claasy) than even the worst "regular" TG. Oh yeh, and since there are only classy people in Bangkok you MUST be classy too, right ?


LBM is right, Pattaya is much smaller than Bangkok and therefore many things are more visible. I hope you don't deny that the very same kind of people who can be found in Pattaya are also attracted by the sex scene in Bangkok. But due to the fact that Bangkok is much larger those people more or less vanish in the masses, but nevertheless they exist. Have a look around Sukhumvit and Patpong and tell us again that all guys in Bangkok have class and are so much better than those in Pattaya.

Regarding crime : Do you really try to tell us that there is less murder, assault, robbery and general mayhem in Bangkok than in Pattaya ?
It is as likely to become a crime victim in Bangkok as in Pattaya. I haven't had a closer look to crime statistics but I am pretty sure that there are many places maybe like Rio de Janeiro, Manila or some US cities which host far more crime than Pattaya and I guess you won't say that these are places with only low quality people. Crime comes with money, and as long as wealth is still alotted unequally there will be crime, that's all.
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/magazine/2000/1013/nat.thailand.html

The Traveler
03-19-07, 23:48
It's not that we don't like Pattaya, just the kind of people that it attracts.
RA,

as already said below, those people can also be found in Bangkok.

I personally like Bangkok for its variety but hate it for its traffic and pollution.

LittleBigMan
03-20-07, 10:24
I don't believe anyone is truly being defensive more than individuals defending how great Bangkok might or might not be or whether one is paying for the sex or one believe we can't get what the other is getting. Majority of us come first to Bangkok and then branch out to other locations but we first come and start in the biggest shithole in Thailand and that is Bangkok " The Capital "
We who stay or visit come for their own personal reasons in the end it all comes down " to each his own " I respect those who have spoken their opinions pro or con but in the end we are here and not too much different from the next considering if you aren't a freak or child molester! otherwise I figure everyone is good as the next as we continue to agree to disagree.

Have a good day and continue to have a good time!

LBM

Old Thai Hand
03-20-07, 12:23
I'm sure that happens all over the world, OTH, though I suspect the requisite level of professorial attractiveness is much lower here.

I think I've been insulted! I assure you I am a "very hansum man". =-)

I doubt very much if you are in any kind of position to comment from any sort of personal knowledge on the frequency of professors, aged or otherwise receiving love-notes from young students.

Having taught in 5 different countries and cultures, over almost 34 years, I can assure you that it is not all that common even for those profs more handsome than I to receive come-ons from students. Although it is true that teacher-student liasons are more common in LOS than perhaps elsewhere, it is still not an everyday occurence.

Therefore, I still find it somewhat startling that I at 55 received this note from a cute 19 y.o., particularly because it can't possibly involve monitary gain or a better grade as the student is stinking rich and a straight-A student.

Despite your attempt to rain on my parade, I'll try to enjoy the moment, anyway.

Old Thai Hand
03-20-07, 13:36
It happens anywhere that the student's grades are somewhat below where they want/need them to be.


WRONG. (see below)

Why does there have to be any ulterior motive? Maybe she just likes me.

BTW. As she's a current student, I wouldn't do anything about it, anyway. It's not ethical.

Member #2041
03-20-07, 17:42
we first come and start in the biggest shithole in Thailand and that is Bangkok " The Capital " LBM
Well, that depends on how you define "biggest shithole". If you define it by the size of the hole, it would be Bangkok, but if you define it by the amount of shit that it contains, then it would be Pattaya.

Traveler1234
03-20-07, 18:01
I don't get the latest exchanges from our resident thai experts re shit holes, etc.? All this chatter about which area is shittier than the other....opinions expressed by:

OTH - his handle speaks for himself ;)
The Traveler - 1000% fluent and part Thai himself :)
LBM - married (or at least I thought he was) to local TG :D
And last but not least Opebo ... no comment here LOL

Each and everyone of you luv LOS but you continue to shit where you eat and fuck...call me dumb, I don't get it? :(

The Traveler
03-20-07, 22:50
Call me stupid
T1234,

your wish is my command :

STUPID !!! :D

The Traveler
03-20-07, 23:33
LBM,

I agree.

Also take a look at the argumentation of those who oppose Pattaya and name it a shithole.
They don't argue with attributes like location, infrastructure, traffic, pollution, prices or whatever but only by telling us that EVERYONE who lives there got no class, is crap and pure shit (including the two of us :() and this makes the place a shithole.

Especially OTH who told us about crime in Pattaya, ignoring that there is as much more crime in Bangkok. My ex-GF for example had been a victim of a robbery when her handbag got stolen by a drive-by with a motorbike. What about all those pickpockets at markets and public transport, what about all those reports of board members who's stuff got stolen from hotel rooms or who got harrassed and pestered on the streets and sometimes even had to fight their way out of the situation like Capt JB for example. What about all those traffic victims, people who got hit by cars when crossing the street. Not to talk about all those other crimes like burglaries, car theft, drug trafficking, [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908), murder and so on. Just listen radio or buy those nasty magazines in which they show corpses to find out how much crime is in Bangkok.

He also told us that everybody who visits bars and gogos to pick up girls is a newbie and low class. Strange, wasn't it him who told us about girls he had recently picked up at bars and gogos when his GF left for a couple of days. And why does he ignore that the P4P scene (= low class people) is much bigger in BKK than in Pattaya ?

BTW, the same guy who always states that ALL Isaan people are low class ugly dark skinned lazy idiots has a GF from there. Of course she is as white as snow and of course a well educated beautiful student. Nevertheless, Pattaya is full of these low class ugly dark skinned lazy idiotic Isaan people and everybody who dares to interact with them must be low class as well. What a luck he had to have found this snow white classy beautiful 19yo student from Isaan, who only loves him because he's such a nice and tolerant guy.

Due to him students can be found everywhere but the university makes the difference, or in other words classy. Even though he has never told us where his GF is actually studying I assume it must be Chula or Thammasat, at least a prestigeous one, right ? Hmm, if Chula he would be fucking one of his students.

Nevertheless a classy guy like him will only accept a classy girl except for those bar and gogo girls he fucks when his GF leaves home for a second. Oops, wasn't that the criteria for being a low class crappy newbie but in his case it's "something different" I guess because he got class, he was born with it. I just wonder why he needs to emphasize it all the time and doesn't let his actions and behaviour speak for itself.


P.S.
I used to respect OTH for his obvious knowledge of LOS but it doesn't behooves a teacher at a university - someone who should also teach tolerance to the next generation - to issue constant exxagerations and generalisations plus countless racist comments and thinking in classes and castes. Someone with only a minimum of intelligence should be able to differentiate. And finally, his endless contradictions make him ring hollow.

Old Thai Hand
03-21-07, 03:52
Traveler

I can't be bothered reading your lengthy verbiage. It's really tiresome. I find it interesting though that you have resorted to personally attacking me and insulting me, when all I did was express an opinion about a place I don't like. That says a lot about the way you always deal with arguments...oh, sorry..."discussions". In attacking me, you also get your facts wrong. I did not in fact pick up the girl I mentioned in a recent post in a gogo. I never said any such thing. I met her online and stated so. I haven't taken out any P4P in close to 2 years.

Anyway, why do you or anyone else care about my opinion of Pattaya? If you guys love it so much, fine by me.

However, just for the record, I never meant to imply that ALL people in Pattaya are scum. I meant specifically that a good many of the Farang there, both living and visiting are scum. But, then again so are those one sees around Nana and Patpong.
There are also a disproportionate number of Thais of questionable character, mostly thieves, murderers, gang members etc., not to mention a few merchants in Patts. I don't have a problem with the girls working in P4P, there. They're just doing a job.
All in all it is an unpleasant place to visit, IMHO, made worse by the fact that it could be so much better than it is. Bangkok is at times unpleasant too. But, it's a big ugly Asian city and is expected to be so. I dispute your assumptions about crime in Bangkok. I've lived here 6 out of 10 years and rarely witnessed or heard of much crime. Sure it happens, but not on a per capita scale like Pattaya.

But, enjoy building your mini-Neuschwanstein, (or is it the Berghof?) and have good holidays and perhaps retirement in Patts.

P.S.
I could give a shit whether I have your respect. You flatter yourself. Who the fuck are you? You're of no importance. And, who cares what people (you, me or anyone) think on a stupid, insignificant sex board?

SidTheSexist
03-21-07, 06:25
Traveler,I can't be bothered reading your lengthy verbiage. It's really tiresome.OTH, Assuming you didnt (although you probably actually did) read all of Travellers last post, can I just point out the following
Due to him students can be found everywhere but the university makes the difference, or in other words classy. Even though he has never told us where his GF is actually studying I assume it must be Chula or Thammasat, at least a prestigeous one, right ? Hmm, if Chula he would be fucking one of his students. Quite a statement you seem to have ignored in your response. I was just wondering if this is common knowledge?

Old Thai Hand
03-21-07, 07:56
Sid

No. I didn't read that. As I said, I find most of what Traveler has to say, tiresome blithering. My eyes glaze over whenever I see one of his lengthy tomes.

The statement, apart from being completely inaccurate (surprising, coming as it does from Herr "I'm always right") is also quite a dreadful thing to say. One wonders what I did to him to warrant such an insulting attack on both me and my GF. Attacks on me, I'll weather. But, any negative reference to my GF is a clear provocation that I won't tolerate.

But, I will repeat what I have already stated ad naseum before so that KRAUT-boy (with appologies to all the other Germans, expecially Giotto, who's really Italian, anyway-LOL) will get it through his thick Teutonic skull:

1/ My GF is not a student, at Chula or anywhere else
2/ She is not HiSo
3/ She is not rich
4/ I don't fuck my own students (just occasionally, someone else's)


And, I repeat that I don't give a fuck for his opinion, garnering his respect or that he has the biggest and best house in Pattaya. He's an arrogant, self-righteous prick.

So am I, sometimes. But, at least I admit it.

I have purposely avoided confrontations with Traveler over the last while and even have actually shown some support for him on several occasions - but, no more. He's made a enemy with this unjustified assault on me over the last few days.

Giotto
03-21-07, 08:21
...
But, I will repeat what I have already stated ad naseum before so that KRAUT-boy (with appologies to all the other Germans, expecially Giotto, who's really Italian, anyway-LOL) will get it through his thick Teutonic skull:

1/ My GF is not a student, at Chula or anywhere else
2/ She is not HiSo
3/ She is not rich
4/ I don't fuck my own students (just occasionally, someone else's)

And, I repeat that I don't give a fuck for his opinion, garnering his respect or that he has the biggest and best house in Pattaya. He's an arrogant, self-righteous prick.
...
HELP!!!

Who mentioned Giotto here? Who says I am still German, I am in the middle of my Thaization process, and not much left from a German any more...I don't work, hanging around in the bar all night - also not really that what an Italian does.

And:

1/ My GF is not a student, at Chula or anywhere else
2/ She is not HiSo
3/ She is not rich
4/ I don't fuck OTHs students (he is a BASTARD, he does not bring them here!!!)

Damned, I also have no house in Pattaya.. :(

What the hell is wrong with my life?


Giotto

PS: But I am a prick, for sure.

Old Thai Hand
03-21-07, 08:44
Giotto

There can only be one "perfect" ubermensch....consider yourself, actually blessed.

Giotto
03-21-07, 08:45
Giotto

There can only be one "perfect" ubermensch....consider yourself, actually blessed.Oh no,

Not Nietzsche. Not now. Too early for that.


Giotto

M P Lurker
03-21-07, 09:36
Traveler
Anyway, why do you or anyone else care about my opinion of Pattaya? If you guys love it so much, fine by me
?
I would go to Pattaya if my GF wants to go there but otherwise I would find a more beautiful beach resort, with less obvious mongering going on. Samui, Samet, Phuket, etc.
I have only been to Pattaya twice (both short stays) in all my years of Thai Mongering and nothing really attracted me to go back. But each to his own.
I understand that girls are really cheap there. That must be a big factor for many or is it the generally wayward lifestyle?
I prefer even Bangkok (amongst many other places) because it has much more variation and it seemed that in the P4P girls bracket, a higher percentage were classy in Bangkok. I don't think I would think of looking for a non-P4P girlfriend in Pattaya also (although could be a good idea if girls in Pattaya are not so shy).

I seems to me that Pattaya is that part of Thailand where standard Thai culture and values go out the window and even the Thais can let their hair down and behave in ways they normally wouldn't. I have nothing against that.

Aren't North and South Pattaya quite different? I haven't seen much discussion of different sectors in Pattaya. Does Pattaya talk mainly refer to the polluted ugly sections of South Pattaya?

LittleBigMan
03-21-07, 09:45
Member 2041,

Based on some of the comments you might be wrong! A big shit hole might not contain alot of shit since the shitter's eat so well they don't have much shit to shit or their shit don't smell. I'm sure there are big guys that don't shit large volume and I'm sure there are small guys that can shit a log as large as a redwood. Not being a expert on shitting I guess it all depends on the shitter and not the size of the shitter! In the end let's not get personal all we are discussing is a lot of shit here.

Traveler 1234, still married but do get out once in a while to sample the candy and your'e not dumb we all do love LOS, one way or another we just get bored and we get our jollies off venting at each other.

LBM

Opebo
03-21-07, 11:16
Pattaya irks the bourgeoisie because is it is a place where working class men can fulfill fantasies, mostly sexual, and working class women can make a lot of money and/or find a guy with money (in other words fulfill their female fantasies). All this sort of thing is considered tacky and offensive by their betters, both Thai and farang. In a more perfect world (untainted by 'liberalism'/socialism/Keyensianism) those workmen would not be able to afford international travel, and even more importantly those women would be toiling in highly organized corporate sweatshops.

Of course there is no objective way to judge one's fellows, but I cannot help but be bemused by these upper-middle class prigs unaware of the source of their disgust.

Nothing is more ironic than the idea that the upper class - whose hands are so very bloody - is 'classy'. They are the biggest baboon bashing the others into submission, and our idea of class, sophistication, etc., is just an attempt to pretend the brutality which lies beneath isn't there.

1Ball
03-21-07, 13:10
Now THIS is a real thai soap opera.
You guys are fucking hilarious, and have wayyyyyyyy too much time on your hands!!!!!

Old Thai Hand
03-21-07, 13:17
Opebo

While I agree with your mini deconstruction of classism, this discussion was never really about class, but about behavior.

What I find offensive in Pattaya, other than the pollution, urban sprawl and loss of anything resembling Thai culture is the behavior of people, especially the Farang that seem to be attracted to the place and the low-life Thais hell-bent on ripping them off and generally exploiting them. I've witnessed more boorish behavior in Pattaya ( and I've been there enough times in 10 years to be able to speak with authority) than practically anywhere else I've ever been.

Whatever your background, and education there is no excuse for bad behavior. Everyone is to blame: the ignorant Farang who don't know how to simply act properly towards each other or their hosts, and the Thais whose behavior is an affront to their own culture.

If you understand the essence of what is truly Thai: the traditions of proper language and behavior, - not the power elite, who corrupt 'Thainess' for their own puposes, nor the poor upcountry girl forced to compromise her upbringing and traditions in order to put food on the table - you can't think anything other than Pattaya is an evil place.

This is another 'inconvenient truth' (with appologies to Al Gore). Mongers just want to come here, live the dream in Pattaya, because they can't get anything like it back home. But, some don't know the damage they're doing (or more likely don't care) by acting like they own the place, getting pissed off their faces, picking fights and generally insulting just about everything good about this country.

The Traveler
03-21-07, 23:04
OTH,

how does it come that you know so much about all those bars and gogos and are up-to-date informed ?

As I already assumed, there must be a reason for choosing this place to live :)



IMHO, anyone living in LOS and still going down to gogo bars every day to pick up skanks is nothing more than a rahter sad form of newbie.

vs.

I do live in Bangkok within a stone's throw of Cowboy, not to mention soi 22 with lots of beer bars, where there are girls who are under 20, or who have just turned 20. There is a shoddy beer bar right near the corner of soi 22 and Sukhumvit across from Flyers that has among its motley crew of older ladies and katoeys, a couple of 19/20 y.o. I shagged one 19 y.o. there, about a year ago when she was 18. She disappeared for awhile because she had a baby with a Farang. But, now still only 19, she's back at the bar.

In the VIP bar at Nana on the 3rd floor, where the girls dance in school uniforms, there are also younger girls, who scramble whenever the police show up.

The Traveler
03-21-07, 23:11
OTH,

if you feel attacked and insulted by pointing out to your snobby behaviour and numerous contradictions you shouldn't blame me but rather ask yourself why you feel offended. Maybe because what I say is true ?

You did far more than just expressing an opinion about a place you don't like, you looked down, degraded and insulted all decent citizens of the place by your snobby comments and usual generalizations. That's the subject of the argument.

Simply compare your comments with Retired Army's one.
He said, that "Pattaya is a shithole because it attracts the wrong kind of people."

A fair assesment I can agree to. But his comment leaves a lot of room for all those decent and hard working people who live there.

Your comments on the other hand do sound quite different :



...What intelligent, educated person possessing any class at all would want to settle down in this sesspool? ...

...There are much nicer places in Thailand to sit and look at the sea, play the iincredibly boring game of golf and meet a better class of woman...

Do you see the difference ?
You insult everybody living there, telling us nobody with any intelligence, education or class would ever choose to live there and that all women are low class.

I wonder why you feel the need to issue such statements. You are an educated and eloquent guy and at your age you should have some dignity and self control. The only reason I can see for it is your character or better your belief of being something better and having class - especially since you have repeated it ad nauseum at any given occasion.

It's always the same story with you.
First you make unjustified generalizations and exaggerations, dowgrade and insult people but as soon it's getting hot or when being cornered you start to relativize your original statements and accept "exceptions", just like you did this time (again).

And wasn't it you who kept picking on another forum member for posting pics you didn't like and told him that he should be prepared for opinions if he posts pics ?

Guess same counts for any other kind of post !

Phantomtiger2
03-22-07, 00:00
Now THIS is a real thai soap opera.
You guys are fucking hilarious, and have wayyyyyyyy too much time on your hands!!!!!


Yeah, but for the two of us to be reading all this and following it as we speak, then perhaps we both have too much time also.--ha ha
Cheers all.

PT

Have It
03-22-07, 00:17
You guys should stop flirting with each other.

Old Thai Hand
03-22-07, 00:49
Kraut-boy

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, BLAH!

Insults against me, I'll deal with, despite the fact that I didn't say anything against you.

BUT...You referenced my GF in your unjustified vitriolic barage against me. With that, you crossed the line. So now it's war. And since you come from a long line of people who start wars, but are unable to win them, I think odds are on my side.

The Traveler
03-22-07, 23:12
OTH,

I am not insulting you, haven't used any bad wording at all, just pointing out to your numerous contradictions, but if you feel offended by it you should ask yourself why.

Regarding your GF, I also didn't say anything bad about her. I think I must be allowed to cite your very own posts and remarks about her. If you don't want her to be mentioned in this forum then you shouldn't have told us about her at all. But you couldn't resist to do so many times. Why ?

Your last post clearly shows that you got no arguments, probably because it's a tough task to deal with your own words. :)

In this spirit : Be prepared for responses and opinions if you post in here, especially when you insult others.


P.S. "So now it's war", what a laughable comment from a man at your age and someone who pretends to have class.
I don't see you as my enemy, most likely because you aren't a combatant that can be taken seriously as you got no self control.

There is only one way to fight me, bring forward arguments and facts.
Getting personal and making references to my nationality and the history of my country which I have nothing to do with and ain't responsible for.won't help you and only makes you look bad as nobody appreciates something like that. It's just another sign for how helpless you are. Don't think that the rest of the members, who waste their time with reading our crap, aren't smart enough to see what you are aiming for.

Old Thai Hand
03-23-07, 01:17
Trav

It's typical of you to attack and insult people and then deny that you have. You've done it so many times in the past to myself as well as others, then hide behind the defence that it's merely a 'discussion' and you're posting facts and didn't mean anything personally.

As for my GF...I can post references to her, but that doesn't give you the right to do so, especially in the context of this argument and your attack on me. Talking about her as one of my students (not true, BTW) and me fucking her, as one of of my students, among other things you said is clearly out of line.

My references to your nationality (are you ashamed of it?) and national history are done to irritate you. I admit it.

As for war and my age...well, I have been a soldier, actually. But, anyway, what I mean by that is that we no longer need to pretend that we respect each other because it's simply not true. You've contributed a lot of useful information on here, although I think other than considerable technical knowledge about the country, you don't know shit about the real Thailand or Thai culture. In any event, you've contributed far more vitriole and bullshit than just about anyone and have made a lot of enemies in the process, not that it matters.
BTW, I've contributed a lot of bullshit too. But, I see this board for what it is. While you take it so deadly seriously and are relentless in your drive to always be right, I usually don't pursue arguments for too long because I have better things to do with my time.

I consider myself fortunate to never have met you. From all accounts of those who have, you are an arrogant, puffed-up ass-hole par excellence.

My consolation is that you're stuck, freezing you ass off in one of the most deadly boring countries in the world, while I get to leave in an hour and spend all day with some of the best-looking eye-candy in Thailand, and then go to the beach for the weekend. All your arguments and logic can't beat that.

1Ball
03-23-07, 02:41
would it be in bad taste, to link a post in the Fight Club, to the RODs ?

Giotto
03-23-07, 05:56
...
My references to your nationality (are you ashamed of it?) and national history are done to irritate you. I admit it.
...
What nationality? Did I miss something? Do we need to mobilize the army?

...
My consolation is that you're stuck, freezing you ass off in one of the most deadly boring countries in the world, while I get to leave in an hour and spend all day with some of the best-looking eye-candy in Thailand, and then go to the beach for the weekend. All your arguments and logic can't beat that.Old Thai Hand,

ROFLMAO!

I agree with the Vice President, if this were not written in the fight club it should be linked to the RODs.


Giotto

Piper1
03-23-07, 10:44
I had a 19 y.o. student leave me a love note, today. Where else would that happen, but here?Was he cute? :D

Opebo
03-23-07, 11:13
BTW, I've contributed a lot of bullshit too. But, I see this board for what it is. While you take it so deadly seriously...

I would like to interject that while the squabbles in which we engage in this Fight Club are certainly unserious, this board as a whole is probably the most serious one upon which we will ever post. The reason is that our brothers actually spend thousands of dollars, and in some cases precious vacation time, based upon our reports here. We post about finding prostitutes, a subject which due to illegality and social taboo cannot be researched from many sources. Lastly we are facilitating our brother's (and sisters) fight for freedom against State oppression.

I know you may laugh, but I consider my contributions to this board the only occasions in my life in which I 'help others' or 'strike a blow'.

Old Thai Hand
03-23-07, 11:22
Was he cute? :D

DAMN!!! The jig is up. Ya...as gay as Christmas. LOL

Old Thai Hand
03-23-07, 11:27
I know you may laugh, but I consider my contributions to this board the only occasions in my life in which I 'help others' or 'strike a blow'.

As I've said before, while I don't usually agree with your POV - and you did allude to my student liking me because expectations are much lower here, which really hurt my feelings, ;)...

I find your supposed 'serious' posts somewhat amusing and always informative, even if it isn't exactly information that I want.

Piper1
03-23-07, 11:49
... Lastly we are facilitating our brother's (and sisters) fight for freedom against State oppression.

I know you may laugh, but I consider my contributions to this board the only occasions in my life in which I 'help others' or 'strike a blow'.Yep, I laughed. Marx and Engels would not be proud of you. You're not fucking the capitalist establishment. Instead, you're doing the complete opposite by frantically fucking a few proletariat peasants. The only blow you strike is the BBB type.

Give your 10-baht Che Guevara t-shirt away, put your Walmart polo-shirt back on, and join the picket line on Walking Street. Make a real contribution, Comrade.

Traveler1234
03-23-07, 14:31
Yep, I laughed. Marx and Engels would not be proud of you. You're not fucking the capitalist establishment. Instead, you're doing the complete opposite by frantically fucking a few proletariat peasants. The only blow you strike is the BBB type.

Give your 10-baht Che Guevara t-shirt away, put your Walmart polo-shirt back on, and join the picket line on Walking Street. Make a real contribution, Comrade.

I luv it when the fucking academia provide such insightful comments....best post of the week, compliments of Piper1 :)

Opebo
03-23-07, 14:39
Yep, I laughed. Marx and Engels would not be proud of you. You're not fucking the capitalist establishment. Instead, you're doing the complete opposite by frantically fucking a few proletariat peasants. The only blow you strike is the BBB type.

Give your 10-baht Che Guevara t-shirt away, put your Walmart polo-shirt back on, and join the picket line on Walking Street. Make a real contribution, Comrade.

Where did you get the idea I was refering to anything Marxist, Piper? I was refering to making a contribution to getting around the laws against prostitution.

The Traveler
03-23-07, 21:36
It's typical of you to attack and insult people and then deny that you have. You've done it so many times in the past to myself as well as others, then hide behind the defence that it's merely a 'discussion' and you're posting facts and didn't mean anything personally.

OTH,

wasn't that your "tactic" ?
You have been the one who insulted all inhabitants of Pattaya incl. LBM, Bill Miami, me and many others and especially all women who live there.




As for my GF...I can post references to her, but that doesn't give you the right to do so, especially in the context of this argument and your attack on me.

I can make any reference I want, to everything that has been posted here.
Who are you to set up rules for me and others, like telling us which pics to post or what we are allowed to cite ?

I simply made a reference to your GF because she is a very good example for your contradictions and snobby behaviour.
BTW, I wasn't talking ABOUT her, but rather about YOU !

Due to numerous of your posts, all Isaan people are ugly dark-skinned lazy idiots without any class except for YOUR GF - also from Isaan - who is a smart educated claasy 19yo with skin as white as snow. Of course she only loves you - a man 3 times her age - for being such a classy and tolerant guy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that she is a fine person, but she isn't the only one and there are much more like her opposite to what you have told us about Isaan people.




As for war and my age...well, I have been a soldier, actually. But, anyway, what I mean by that is that we no longer need to pretend that we respect each other because it's simply not true. You've contributed a lot of useful information on here, although I think other than considerable technical knowledge about the country, you don't know shit about the real Thailand or Thai culture. In any event, you've contributed far more vitriole and bullshit than just about anyone and have made a lot of enemies in the process, not that it matters.

BTW, I've contributed a lot of bullshit too. But, I see this board for what it is. While you take it so deadly seriously and are relentless in your drive to always be right,

It's not about being right or wrong, but rather about your extremely snobby behaviour, looking down on everybody who is different or have been less lucky than you. You are also very intolerant and obviously unable to express your opinion without insulting and degrading others. You have the REAL knowledge and everything YOU do is right while others don't know shit, just read above.

I wouldn't go as far as another member, who recently said that "You are full of shit".
I rather go along with another one who said that "Your ego is out of control."

You constantly try to set up rules for others, tell us what to post or not, try to drive away members who post pics that aren't to your liking and of course tell us that you not only have the best taste in women but also can get them all.

I wonder who made more enemies, you or me ?
Mine might be louder than yours, only because these very few are your pals and sharing your hobby of bullying others but that shouldn't delude anybody that yours are more.

If you don't take the forum serious, why do you waste your time criticizing other people's pics ?
And why do you still lurk around after telling us several times that you are done with the forum ?

BTW, those people did not insult you, your joined attack with one of your pals was absolutely unprovoked and only a result of your snobby attitude.




I usually don't pursue arguments for too long because I have better things to do with my time.

So why do you do it right now, just like you have done countless times before ?
Seems that you don't have too many better things to do when wasting your time with bullying other members. That rather looks like you are bored.

Opposite to you I don't care about other peoples pictures and contributions but simply enjoy to bring snobby guys like you down to earth. Class is not a question of money or social status but of character and attitude. You lack of both.




I consider myself fortunate to never have met you. From all accounts of those who have, you are an arrogant, puffed-up ass-hole par excellence.

My consolation is that you're stuck, freezing you ass off in one of the most deadly boring countries in the world, while I get to leave in an hour and spend all day with some of the best-looking eye-candy in Thailand, and then go to the beach for the weekend. All your arguments and logic can't beat that.

As I already said, you lack of self-control and can't resist to start calling names. Is that the way you express your class ?
Go on, that makes you look even more worse.

And finally, if you are such a happy guy, why still jealous about my new house that you mentioned so often and why aren't you with "some of the best looking candy in Thailand" (we wouldn't expect less from you :)) right now instead of wasting your time and posting that crap ?

BTW, I will be in LOS in a couple of days, but being more humble than you I will stick to my GF.
So much for freezing off my ass (we have heating installations here anyway) and going to beaches. :D


If you post "opinions" and insult others, be prepared for responses and don't act like a sissy.

Old Thai Hand
03-24-07, 03:58
I THINK THIS ONE IS PARTICULARLY APPROPRIATE...

Contradiction is not a sign of falsity, nor the lack of contradiction a sign of truth.
Blaise Pascal


SOME MORE...

I have forced myself to contradict myself in order to avoid conforming to my own taste.
Marcel Duschamp

People who honestly mean to be true really contradict themselves much more rarely than those who try to be ''consistent.''
Oliver Wendell Holmes

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

I believe that truth has only one face: that of a violent contradiction.
George Bataille

The cardinal responsibility of leadership is to identify the dominant contradiction at each point of the historical process and to work out a central line to resolve it.
Mao Tse-Tung

The reserve of modern assertions is sometimes pushed to extremes, in which the fear of being contradicted leads the writer to strip himself of almost all sense and meaning.
Winston Churchill

What an antithetical mind! -- tenderness, roughness -- delicacy, coarseness -- sentiment, sensuality -- soaring and groveling, dirt and deity -- all mixed up in that one compound of inspired clay!
Lord Byron

I thought I would dress in baggy pants, big shoes, a cane and a derby hat. everything a contradiction: the pants baggy, the coat tight, the hat small and the shoes large.
Charlie Chaplin

Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
Ayn Rand

Like the British Constitution, she owes her success in practice to her inconsistencies in principle.
Thomas Hardy

All concord's born of contraries.
Ben Johnson

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
George Orwell



AND FINALLY...

The well-bred contradict other people. The wise contradict themselves.
Oscar Wilde

M P Lurker
03-24-07, 04:39
I
People who honestly mean to be true really contradict themselves much more rarely than those who try to be ''consistent.''
Oliver Wendell Holmes
etc.

I don't believe in "the TRUTH". There are only multiple views of the TRUTH. No two people see things exactly the same way.
Sometimes their views are markedly different for an event that both stood side by side watching.
Those who can admit they are fallible and perhaps see things incorrectly at times are the truelly wise.
Those who beleive that they are never wrong are making a serious mistake.
Unfortunately my ex-wife was one of those.
Life has been so much better since she left.
One ex Thai girlfriend would be certain she saw something happen that certainly just did not happen, but she could never admit the possibility of being Rork Jit (Mental Case).

I am frequently embarrased by behaviour of ignoring another's view only to later see that it had merit.
So I wish I could be a more receptive listener from the start. At least I am aware of this fault.

Sorry That I am not really being provocative.
When it comes to fight club, I fear I just can't cut it, even though I was one to suggest the Fight Club thread, just before it was started !

Old Thai Hand
03-24-07, 04:54
I don't believe in "the TRUTH". There are only multiple views of the TRUTH. No two people see things exactly the same way.
Sometimes their views are markedly different for an event that both stood side by side watching.

You're so right. There is a good movie about this by Akira Kurosawa called Rashomon (1950) in which several people tell conflicting versions of the same event; their versions being affected by their own perceptions, interests and personalities.



I am consistent in my inconsistencies.
OTH



I have written this for Traveler who is so anal as to spend precious time culling my posts in order to prove me contradictory, so as to get the better of me and make himself feel superior.

What fool would waste his time doing such a thing? :D

The Traveler
03-24-07, 08:03
I don't believe in "the TRUTH". There are only multiple views of the TRUTH. No two people see things exactly the same way.
Sometimes their views are markedly different for an event that both stood side by side watching.
Those who can admit they are fallible and perhaps see things incorrectly at times are the truelly wise.
Those who beleive that they are never wrong are making a serious mistake.

Mick Licker,

I agree 100%

Nobody knows everything and there is nothing wrong with admitting a mistake.
Those who believe to be always right and to know everything are the real losers, because they never realize that they are fallible and therefore don't open their mind for other perspectives which is a precondition for learning.

The Traveler
03-24-07, 08:31
What fool would waste his time doing such a thing?

OTH,

obviously you !
How much time did you spend to google for those citations ?
Oh, I forgot, you had them all memorized, right ? :)

The opinions of a person about different issues may be contradicting sometimes because they are always influenced by a certain focus one may have in a certain situation. But in your case your "opinions" do contradict with your reports about your daily life. True stories are consistent while made up stories do contain contradictions.

So all your "class" talk, your vilification of people from a certain region and your insults against those who may have a different motivation or criterias for choosing their place to live is nothing but hot air.
I made the experience that only those who try to gain social status talking a lot about having "class" and degrade others, that makes them feel superior. Those with real class do not need to emphasize it all the time.

For me the whole thing is not about being superior - that's what you believe to be with your "class" - or about being right or wrong. It's about your attitude towards other members, setting up rules for them and insulting people when you express your "opinions". If you do so, be prepared for responses.

Your comments regarding Pattaya are quite revealing. You claim to know REAL Thailand while your perspective on Pattaya is a very limited one. You only see the sex scene but ignore everything outside of this artifical world. Maybe the reason for it is your own behaviour and the way you live your life.

For someone who claims that visiting bars and gogos make you a sad form of newbie and that regulars are the way to go because they have more "class"
you know pretty much and have up-to-date info about all those bars and gogos in your neighbourhood. I guess that's also the reason why you choosed to live in their proximity. There are much nicer places in Bangkok than the Asoke area.

The one that you describe as having only "technical" knowledge about LOS (me) in contrast has a far broader perspective on it. I see it as a tourist destination, with all its pros and cons but also notice that there is far more than just a sex scene in Pattaya. It's rather a big market for services and goods for me with lots of opportunities.

You claim that no women of class can be found in Pattaya, this might be true for someone who is only hitting bars, but I object, there are lots of office workers, nurses, employees of all sorts and so on, just like in Bangkok or any other place. You only have to see them but when you are only focussed on bars and gogos you will rarely recognize them.

And finally, it's my precious time. I do what I want to do with it.
The fact that you return to this forum on a daily basis instead of spending your time with the "crŤme de la crŤme" of Thai society shows that you aren't any better in this regard than anybody else here. Why aren't you at the beach with some of the "best-looking eye-candy" in Thailand like you announced yesterday ? :D

Patarse
03-24-07, 09:17
having been an observer for a couple of years now i really can't help but comment on the oth discussion.

a man who preaches about thai culture but takes obvious advantage of his position in an educational institution. what is a third world educational job equivalent to in a western country? maccas drive through? garbo?

according to his latest attacks on a fellow member he hasn't had p4p for over 2 years.

yet a post of his from 03/17/07 states

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

while it's true that he is being vague and not giving specifics, i have to side with gladiator on this one. anyone who honestly thinks that there are no **** girls in the bars is being naiive.

i have not been to pattaya for awhile, but am in contact with a student (and gogo dancer) who i met over a year ago when she was 18 and working in carousel a gogo. since i paid for her tuition to the local college, i saw her documentation and know her true age. she told me last year when i met her, that she was really 18, but had a fake id, which is easy to obtain. she is now 19 and still working at carousel. she has a best friend, who actually started working at carousel when she was 17 and just turned 18.

one of the bartenders as cocktail on soi cowboy was an 18 y. o. first-year student at the nearby university when i met her (and bf-ed her) last year and is now 19 and still working there.

i was at cowboy 2 last night and although none of the dancers was under 20, our waitress was 17 and available.

i am hardly an active monger on here like some. still with no effort, i have been able to name 4 specific examples of **** girls in bars. if i was out every night, i'm sure i could find loads.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

why you choose to attack people who visit and enjoy places you don't i don't know. but at least show the rest of us enough respect that we may remember your last bullshit ramblings. and please think about going home, there are plenty of white skinned people that you love back there.

i heard maccas are hiring too.

patarse

Old Thai Hand
03-24-07, 10:44
How much time did you spend to google for those citations ?


5 minutes....



I was with some eye-candy, today...thank you very much. Unfortunately, not at the beach today as I was looking for a new condo.

BTW. You obviously have been out of the loop for awhile. Asoke is a very desirable area to live. Soi Cowboy is an island and a very expensive piece of real estate in the midst of very up-market condo developments, among them Jasmine City and the condo being built immediately behind Cowboy. Srinakarinwirot University has undergone extensive expansion in the area. Asoke is already akin to the area from Emporium up to Ekamai and becoming quite expensive.

Cowboy's days are numbered, which I actually lament. I am not really up-to-date on the Cowboy scene, despite your repeated reference to that. But, I do go occasionally for a drink with friends, but never partake of the girls - don't need to and not interested. But, it's a relaxing and entertaining enough place to hang out, compared to that high-priced pit, NEP.

I also never said NO woman of class could be found in Pattaya. I dated a nice enough girl who lives there and works for the submarine tour company. I've met a few in and around the area - office girls, nurses etc. that are perfectly ok. But, the place is also full of a lot of skanks, (20,000, by some estimates which is twice as many as New York City) which is ok if you like skanks.
I somehow doubt very many Farang living there have anything but ex-bargirls as GFs or do anything but partake of P4P there. I doubt it's any different that Bangkok where large numbers of expats haven't moved beyond stage 1 and are still hanging with BGs. Do I look down on these guys? Yes, absolutely because there are lots of ordinary, decent TGs to be had that are just better looking and better to be with, unless you're Opebo and just looking for an endless stream of bargain-basement pussy and don't want anything serious or committed. For visitors it's generally a different story as I've repeated ad nauseum. They don't have the choice. But, for those living here, there's no excuse.

Your strident defence of bargirls all the time has me puzzled. Why do you think they're so great? You should know better having had regular TGs as GFs. Despite my initial antagonism towards him, I think Samas Aran always had it right - 3F. Before, Bernard Trink sang the same song week after week about these girls. People who go on and on about these girls as if they're something special, obviously don't know any better. But, you should.

Opebo
03-24-07, 11:06
Your strident defence of bargirls all the time has me puzzled. Why do you think they're so great? You should know better having had regular TGs as GFs. Despite my initial antagonism towards him, I think Samas Aran always had it right - 3F. Before, Bernard Trink sang the same song week after week about these girls. People who go on and on about these girls as if they're something special, obviously don't know any better. But, you should.

OTH, bargirls are something special precisely because they are easy to find, fuck, and forget. That is what is so great about prostitution - you are free! I think the 3f attitude is reasonable for dealing with 'regular' girls, not just prostitutes; alas they are not as amenable.

The whole point is that monogamy is a misery and a con, and the only difference between the prostitute and the 'good girl' is the latter is charging a higher price (particularly in time, boredom, emotional involvement, and lost opportunities, though usually in money as well).

NicFrenchy
03-24-07, 12:44
I somehow doubt very many Farang living there have anything but ex-bargirls as GFs or do anything but partake of P4P there. I doubt it's any different that Bangkok where large numbers of expats haven't moved beyond stage 1 and are still hanging with BGs. Do I look down on these guys? Yes, absolutely because there are lots of ordinary, decent TGs to be had that are just better looking and better to be withInteresting Point of View. Well I guess I am one of these Farangs then. Let me "look up" so I can see you from down here and attempt a reply ;) :

I have been living in Thailand for about 2 years now. I can say 95% of the ladies I am with now (sexually) are working girls. I used to date 2 regular Thai ladies (office ladies in management positions) and stopped because they were driving me absolutely crazy. Yes they were fun to be with but the drama was too much of a hassle for me. What suits me is to hang out with my friends and butterfly when I want to. A hassle free life (I can easily afford that).

I guess we have different priorities anyway, since I am 30 and you probably are what? Double my age?

While I respect the fact that older men in BKK are looking for a steady relationships and maybe even marriage, why can't these same people accept that some other men (no matter the age) are looking for fun?

Sure I have a few girls I see without any money involved, but these are not the girls we are talking about here am I right? Did I even understand your point correctly? Sometimes I am not sure as English is not my first language.

You are now "looking down" on me, I suppose. This makes me chuckle. You have been in Thailand too long would be my guess, speak Thai Fluently, living like thais and maybe even think you are Thai, from a higher social class than the regular mongering expat? Just because the girlie has whiter skin? . Do you sport a yellow shirt on Mondays? No matter how hard you try, you have white skin and you will always be a Foreigner.

I guess I have. "no excuse" for living here and still being stuck at "stage 1". Well. What can I say. I'm not after the "ordinary" TGs. (been there, done that. And didn't like it)

anyway, I'm not angry or anything, just hoping to get a laugh out of this since this is the Battle section ;)

Old Thai Hand
03-24-07, 12:51
OTH, bargirls are something special precisely because they are easy to find, fuck, and forget. That is what is so great about prostitution - you are free! I think the 3f attitude is reasonable for dealing with 'regular' girls, not just prostitutes; alas they are not as amenable.

The whole point is that monogamy is a misery and a con, and the only difference between the prostitute and the 'good girl' is the latter is charging a higher price (particularly in time, boredom, emotional involvement, and lost opportunities, though usually in money as well).

I agree with you in part. But, if one is inclined to be monogamous (after a fashion) and have a GF (which I appreciate is a fate worse than death for you), then the last thing one should do is have a bargirl as a GF. A regular girl will admittedly lighten your wallet, to varying degrees, but a bargirl will empty it, mortgage you and put you in debt...OOPS! There I go making generalizations, again.

"I'm specific in my generalizations and contrary in my contradictions" from

Generalizations and Contractions are 'We' (the Royal 'We", that is) the new book by OTH


Anyway, I for one actually like having a GF...and well...a Gig, too. An occasional fling is ok. But, after a very large number of Thai women over the years (hundreds and hundreds), I find an endless stream of women very boring. My GF is quite smart, funny and entertaining, good in bed, not especially demanding about anything and pretty laid back, generally. Unlike a lot of Thai girls, she's not overtly psychotic, which is a nice change. I consider my lucky, actually and not 'conned' at all.

I think for someone with your inclinations, you have completely the right idea. Find what you want, for the cheapest price possible, hope the service meets the needs and then forget her and move on to the next.

The Traveler
03-25-07, 10:05
OTH,

I know the prices in the Asoke area very well, originally intended to buy a condo and was checking prices at various locations before I made a final decision. But being expensive doesn't mean being a nice place too. BTS and MRT are not too far and being close to several "certain venues" attracts lots of Farangs which on one hand will keep the prices up anyway. The lower Suk sois are expensive.
I was talking about pollution, noise, traffic jams and the like.



But, I do go occasionally for a drink with friends, but never partake of the girls - don't need to and not interested. But, it's a relaxing and entertaining enough place to hang out, compared to that high-priced pit, NEP.

So now it's OK to hang out at the very same places which makes the rest of us "nothing more than a rather sad form of newbie.".

Read Patarse's post below about you picking up girls at these places.
You sound a bit dishonest right now or do you have another (believable) explanation for this contradiction ?



I also never said NO woman of class could be found in Pattaya.

That stands in contrast with your original statement :


There are much nicer places in Thailand to ... meet a better class of woman.

Why can't you find a better class of woman in Pattaya ?
The only logical conclusion is, because there are none.

Again the same game as ever, making an generalisation which is insulting and degrading towards all those "women of class" and later on denying to have made that statement.



Do I look down on these guys? Yes, absolutely because there are lots of ordinary, decent TGs to be had that are just better looking and better to be with, ..

That's quite a news. I didn't know that beauty has anything to do with your profession, except for models as it's a precondition for their job.
Also quite strange that you called many of my posted girls attractive. They were all P4P because I don't post pics of regulars. BTW, a very fair part of them were also from Isaan :)



Your strident defence of bargirls all the time has me puzzled. Why do you think they're so great?

I never said that they are so great, but they are still human beings and they aren't better or worse than any other woman with a different profession.
I rather oppose your constant vilification of these women, they have their reasons for doing this kind of job and it's not on you to judge them. Would be interesting to know what you would have done being born into their place.

Saying that prostitutes are bad is equal to saying that black people or muslims are bad. All these kinds of generalizations are inappropriate and unfair. Therefore they also do violate the forums rules.

Have a look at the General Rules :
"No Offensive Posts, Links or Images: Please do not post any messages, images or links that are vulgar, hateful, threatening, racist, or discriminatory. "

Would it be correct to say that all Canadians are snobby intolerant idiots just because someone has a dislike in you ?



You should know better having had regular TGs as GFs.
...
A regular girl will admittedly lighten your wallet, to varying degrees, but a bargirl will empty it, mortgage you and put you in debt.
So now it's only a financial issue, not anymore one of beauty and class ?
Yes, I do know better, that's complete nonsense. As you know, I have been with TG's (regulars and P4P) for over 20yrs now and none ever tried or managed to empty my wallets. Why you blame the girls for doing their job instead of blaming the stupidity of those guys who go in debt. Don't we all try to get as much as possible for our work ?

The Traveler
03-25-07, 10:56
OTH,

due to your posts during this discussion (or clash of our two superegos, whatever fits best) it seems to me that you haven't fully understood what I my real aim is.

I am not against YOU as a person nor do I care much about your opinions but rather about the way you express them.

You as a teacher should know how to transfer a message and to express an opinion WITHOUT any generalisations and WITHOUT insulting and degrading others. You got the tools for it, life experience, education and eloquency but sadly you don't use them.

I am also concerned about what you do teach to your students. Your personal opinions do definitely influence your behaviour and the way you teach. If you express yourself in the classroom the same way you express yourself in this forum then of course you aren't qualified for being a teacher.

A teacher should not only convey knowledge to his students but also moral, ethic, tolerance and mercy. I know this is a somewhat idealistic picture but a man of class who has real interest in teaching would try to aim for that.

But sadly intolerance, degrading comments, improper generalisations and countless direct and indirect insults pave your way through this forum.

You also provide us fixed "truths" instead of asking for the reasons of certain behaviour and choices of people.
A bargirl for example - especially if she comes from Isaan - must be a bad ugly girl without any class and only sells her body because she is too lazy for another "decent" job or everybody who decides to live in Pattaya can't be an intelligent, educated person and can't possess any class at all.
I wonder why you have so much hatred towards these people.

Shouldn't a teacher urge his students to use their brains and make them think about the reasons to make them understand.

As you can see in my posts, I exactly do that, asking questions. If you find the answers offending and insulting - like you did below - than you should ask yourself why, as you were the one who found the answers for yourself. I am not responsible for your contradictions and (mis)behaviour, I only point out to it.

When being born we are all the same, innocent - and nobody has more or less "class" at that moment. But we are formed by our environment, some are lucky and have lots of opprtunities while others are less lucky. Why blame them for it ?

Old Thai Hand
03-25-07, 13:19
trav
please don't don't denegrate my teaching based solely on what i write on an insignificant web board. the way i write here has nothing to do with how i am in the classroom. in fact, i'm an excellent teacher, well respected both by my students and peers, and have even been given a royal decoration for excellence in education, which few farang have ever received here. this is precisely why i don't make a third world salary here, like many others, but make equivalent to what a university professor would make at many schools in the states.

here's what i'm doing in the classroom this week - teaching my students about homelessness as part of a large project that they and i are working on. that's actually the kind of stuff i do.

but, that doesn't mean i'm backtracing nor professing suddenly that i am actually a tree-hugging, save the whales, i love my fellow man, kind of guy who's misunderstood on isg.

i stand by much of what i have said.
it is my prerogative to dislike a lot of bar-girls, if i so choose. it is my prerogative to state that most i have met are not too bright and pretty boring. it's my prerogative to state that i think they are ugly, because that's how i see them. it's my prerogative to criticize guys whose whole life revolves around bargirls because perhaps i have been here too long and do see it from a thai cultural perspective, now - that being seen with these girls is a huge negative, even if these guys don't care what thais think of them.

i used to like bargirls and going to cowboy and nana and even pattaya and all the rest of it. but, i changed. most of my friends who've been here as long as i have changed. i'm sorry, that's really what happens to a lot of guys after many years here.

nicfrenchy
you've only been here 2 years. so, you're still a relative newbie. get back to me in 10 years and tell me you feel exactly the same way about loving the bargirls the way you do.

anyway, having said all that, it's just my opinion and not worth any more than your opinion or nicfrenchy's opinion or anyone else's.

as for contradictions about my p4p activities...

i also stand by my comment that i haven't partaken of p4p in 2 years. that i am acquainted with some girls working in bars does not mean that i have shagged any recently. i have been in gogo bars a couple of times in the last few months because friends have wanted to go. i talk to the girls because they're there and it's something to do and because i want to practice my lao.

the 18 y.o. working at carousel, i mentioned before is someone i help go to school. i didn't shag her and never said that i did. i met her at oishi in pattaya, started talking to her and subsequently took her shopping for school supplies and paid her tuition. i have a soft spot for students in need.


you and i could go on ad nauseum back and forth.

you're an arrogant prick and so am i. we're destined to always come to blows because of that.

when i feel like going at you, i do. but, i don't care about any of this. it's just a way to let off steam, rile people up and shoot the shit.

i work extremely hard at 2 jobs, have a psycho boss from hell and need somewhere to vent. this is it. btw, i dislike a lot of regular thai people, too. i'm not particularly exclusive in my hostility.


your comments about the asoke area are fair enough. but, where in bangkok isn't there traffic, noise and pollution? minburi? nawamin? laksi? a wee bit far for anyone working in the center of town.

NicFrenchy
03-25-07, 17:16
NicFrenchy,

You've only been here 2 years. So, you're still a relative newbie. Get back to me in 10 years and tell me you feel exactly the same way about loving the bargirls the way you do.Very fair comment to make and I would agree totally with you, except that I do not love Bargirls. Or massage girls or any other Thai girls for that matter. I am not here to stay for 10 years, probably another year. Maybe 2. Tops.

All I want from these girls is sex. That's it. Plain and Simple. I have dated Thai girls, but they are too much of a hassle.

I am not your typical expat. When I go to a bar, I do what I want. I am not going to let an ex-shag decide for me. You know what I am talking about. You hear that a lot, "oh be careful, the lady owns you" or "If you take her once the other girls will think you only want her". Well, while I respect the fact that for them I might be "money guaranteed", I still hold the wallet so I have every right to pick whoever I please. Without having to worry about the ex-shag being happy or not. You'll also hear some guys say "she lost face". What face? Because you did not take her a second time? Give me a break. This is an attitude for the weak. I mongered in a lot of bars and treat the ladies nicely, but I am the one in control of my money, not them.

There is a big difference between being sucked and being suckered.

Peace

The Traveler
03-25-07, 19:38
OTH,

glad to hear that you don't express yourself in the classroom the same way you do express your opinions in here.

As already said, I don't care much about your opinions, simply because you are entitled to them as much as everybody else in here. Actually we don't differ that much and agree on many things, I am just less extreme than you are or at least seem to be.

But I still wonder why you still feel the need to exaggerate and generalize most of the time. You almost always relativizes your initial statements when being criticized for it by me or others and formulate them in a far more modest form.

So why don't you use your obviously existing abilities to phrase your statements in a less extreme form that really do fit your opinions right from the beginning ?
I simply don't get it, the only reasons I can see is to provoke or that your ego went out of control.

Opebo
03-26-07, 18:30
There is never anything quite so amusing - or frustrating - as the intolerant monger who loves the police:


For a city the size of Bangkok, I saw less than 10 [panhandlers] on my trip there 3 months ago which is excellent compared 2 how many are here in Toronto Canada because our lefty commie mayor & the bleeding heart liberals that live here won't do anything about it. Consider yourselves lucky... if we had the laws there where the police have the power 2 do something, we could get rid of the these pieces of shit

I wish they would take my suggestion & round them up & make them into dog food (hahahaha) or send them on a 1 way trip 2 the arctic


There was a Khao San backpacker type panhandling at Prompong BTS a couple of months ago, until I got police to move his sorry ass.


These types call in the Forces of Social Control to abuse persons even more powerless than themselves, while neglecting to remember that most people call we mongers 'peices of shit', and would like to see us rounded up and made into dog food. Poor fools. Poor bootlickers.

Remember, mongers, the police are your enemies, 'normal people' are not on your side, and the downtrodden and outcast are your brothers.

The Traveler
03-26-07, 22:38
Remember, mongers, the police are your enemies, 'normal people' are not on your side, and the downtrodden and outcast are your brothers.
Opebo,

you really write a lot of crap and nonsense.

Never saw police as my enemies, actually they care that your ass is save, without them there would be anarchy and Darwin would take control.

Old Thai Hand
03-27-07, 02:44
o**** - opebo

while often guilty myself of absolutism, i think you take it to the extreme and in this case are full of crap. not all police are bad, even in thailand.

your response, and indeed the response of others to my calling in the police to rid prompong station of a farang backpacker who was panhandling is misdirected. any farang who has enough money to come here, should be smart enough to have enough money to get his sorry ass home. some slovenly backpacker, asking passersby for money for an air-ticket home especially at prompong station, where he knows there are many well-healed thai and farang obviously has a calculated plan. the guy was a scammer, as is often the case with farang who are doing this sort of thing. people like him give all foreigners a bad name. as far as i was concerned, i was right to sick the 'dogs' on him.

Opebo
03-28-07, 16:04
Not all police are bad, even in Thailand.

They are very dangerous by definition, particularly to lawbreaking pariahs such as ourselves.


Your response, and indeed the response of others to my calling in the police to rid Prompong station of a Farang backpacker who was panhandling is misdirected. Any Farang who has enough money to come here, should be smart enough to have enough money to get his sorry ass home.

It is a foolish delusion to attribute persons economic condition to their own choices, OTH. Ones class is determinitive of such things, and the belief in individual volition outside of social control is a convient fiction propagated by the powerful, feeding on the hubris of the powerless.


Some slovenly backpacker, asking passersby for money for an air-ticket home especially at Prompong station, where he knows there are many well-healed Thai and Farang obviously has a calculated plan. The guy was a scammer, as is often the case with Farang who are doing this sort of thing. People like him give all foreigners a bad name. As far as I was concerned, I was right to sick the 'dogs' on him.

No, you were not 'right'. Of course there is no such thing as absolute right or wrong, merely subjective preference, but you certainly violated the Buddhist tradition of minding your own business, in particular as it related to another man's rice bowl.

Old Thai Hand
03-28-07, 17:41
Opebo

It's pretty well-established on here that I'm a classist, arrogant prick, not to mention a firm believer in the Prostestant work ethic. I despise laziness. So, ridding my neighborhood of a shiftless, panhandling Farang scumbag, who was nothing more than an opportunistic scammer fits my M.O.

On the other hand, the legless, leper near my place, not to mention the soi dogs get my full sympathy, because they are helpess victims and deserve charity.

Giotto
03-28-07, 21:44
...
It's pretty well-established on here that I'm a classist, arrogant prick, not to mention a firm believer in the Prostestant work ethic. I despise laziness. So, ridding my neighborhood of a shiftless, panhandling Farang scumbag, who was nothing more than an opportunistic scammer fits my M.O.
...
OK, ok.

I consider Soi 33 to be your neighborhood. ---- I will move. Kao Sarn Road?

Scumbag ... me ... what the hell is that?


Giotto

PS: You are an arrogant prick, really!

Old Thai Hand
03-29-07, 01:09
OK, ok.

I consider Soi 33 to be your neighborhood. ---- I will move. Kao Sarn Road?

Scumbag ... me ... what the hell is that?


Giotto

PS: You are an arrogant prick, really!

I think soi dog is a more apt description of you.

Giotto
03-29-07, 07:42
I think soi dog is a more apt description of you.Old Thai Hand,

Ouch, now an insider joke. Who can understand it :) ?


Giotto

Opebo
03-29-07, 10:22
It's pretty well-established on here that I'm a classist, arrogant prick, not to mention a firm believer in the Prostestant work ethic. I despise laziness.

I can only comment that your attitude is sadly all too prevalent and well established among the working classes, and is the main support of your own oppression - even more than the proverbial barrel of the gun.


So, ridding my neighborhood of a shiftless, panhandling Farang scumbag, who was nothing more than an opportunistic scammer fits my M.O.

Bangkok contains quite a number of idle, lazy people taking advantage of their situation. These are the people who own the town. Your outrage is comically misplaced, but I understand it is easier to kick the soi dog than someone who is well able to kick back.

Opebo
04-01-07, 14:47
I apologize for cluttering up the 'Living in Thailand' thread with personal information - I have removed the offending and excessively long post.

I will only say that while I do not disrespect the progress OTH and Piper have made through their bootstrapping efforts, I would only remind them to appreciate the fact that even to make progress from hard work is a privilege - plenty of people work hard every day of their lives and are never rewarded with anything above subsistence. Typically financial reward for effort is a sign of original class advantage (sometimes magnified by relocation to a less developed country) or, and this is certainly the case in both Australia and Canadia, Keyensian redistribution.


I'm jealous. What's your secret to the easy life?

Family made moderately rich by Keyensianism (they are of that generation), and for my own part a nature not bound by scruple. But enough about me. Thailand is full of upper-middle class ne'er-do-wells, and we can all stick to contributing information that is useful to others rather than solely to our own egos.

Retired Army
04-01-07, 22:15
Opebo

It's pretty well-established on here that I'm a classist, arrogant prick, not to mention a firm believer in the Prostestant work ethic. I despise laziness.

And the problem with this is, what?

Opebo
04-02-07, 16:12
I really must object to our resident dilettante haranguing one of our finest contributors (and a role model of mine):


I should think their very, very special name for you would be, "Hoo dack bugsida".

Ask the next BG you meet, what it means?

In the first place, the old joke of misleading someone about a lewd or insulting phrase in a foreign language is both adolescent and hoary, as well as utterly unfunny. In the second place, even this poor attempt at humour is lost upon the vast majority of readers, who do not know the meaning of the grunts, clicks, and whistles transliterated; a joke of this sort is intended to make the teller feel clever, not to amuse the readers. Finally, it is unseemly to attack in such a shabby manner someone who has contributed not only useful informational posts in the form of travelogues, but also a beautifully expressed ethos for our chosen vocation.

So, does anyone have any idea what the phrase means?

Daddy07
04-02-07, 16:42
I really must object to our resident dilettante haranguing one of our finest contributors (and a role model of mine):

So, does anyone have any idea what the phrase means?

I donít know what it means, either, Opebo, (I hope OTH will eventually enlighten us), but I laughed out load when I saw it, since I knew that it must fit Mr. Assholeís personality like a well made condom. He may be your role model, but in my mind heís just the sort of creep who gives us mongers a bad name in the LOS. If he can be likened to a king, it would surely be the king of the dung heap.

Opebo
04-02-07, 19:18
He may be your role model, but in my mind heís just the sort of creep who gives us mongers a bad name in the LOS. If he can be likened to a king, it would surely be the king of the dung heap.

Not at all, Father. Humble Turd has never described any action of his that would warrant disapproval. In fact his behaviour - visiting brothels discretely, not traipsing about in public with prostitutes - is far better suited to the Thai culture than that of mongers who, as he puts it, lick the girls' asses.

Daddy07
04-02-07, 19:57
Not at all, Father. Humble Turd has never described any action of his that would warrant disapproval. In fact his behaviour - visiting brothels discretely, not traipsing about in public with prostitutes - is far better suited to the Thai culture than that of mongers who, as he puts it, lick the girls' asses.

Oh, yes indeed, he has, son. Mr. Humble Turd Asshole tells us plainly that he treats the women of LOS like hunks of "meat." He "roots" them. He seeks out their "owners," with whom to make his slimy deals. He therefore is the lowest form of slug crawling around in Thailand -- not in the least worthy of your admiration, Opebo, my boy. BTW -- I thought he said licking girl's "feet," not "asses." And you are correct -- he doesn't traipse about in public with prostitutes -- only pimps.

Old Thai Hand
04-03-07, 01:32
So, does anyone have any idea what the phrase means?

Since you spend so much time wallowing in the muck and mire of the Isaan hinterland, maybe you should fucking learn the language!

It's not Thai, btw, it's Isaan-Lao.

Opebo
04-03-07, 05:09
Oh, yes indeed, he has, son. Mr. Humble Turd Asshole tells us plainly that he treats the women of LOS like hunks of "meat." He "roots" them. He seeks out their "owners," with whom to make his slimy deals. He therefore is the lowest form of slug crawling around in Thailand -- not in the least worthy of your admiration, Opebo, my boy.

Actually all mongers root the meat, you know. HT is just a bit more honest about it. I see nothing 'low' or 'high' about particular opinions or analysis; certainly HT's are better at explaining reality any others I have read on here. Do you think you are engaging in some kind of romance or behaving like some kindly benefactor when you fuck a prostitute?

I don't think anything from HT's reports or his philosophy suggest that he has actually been rude to or difficult towards the service providers. I suspect in fact his profound Humility makes him a very decent fellow, in person.

To Old Thai Hand - I'm learning the language, just at my own pace - about a dozen words per year. Its not a high priority. Anyway, what does that phrase mean? (the Lao-speaking members of my mongering team are out of the country for Songkran, lucky bastards)

Retired Army
04-03-07, 10:00
Means farang asshole

Old Thai Hand
04-03-07, 13:43
Means farang asshole

thanks for spilling the beans, RA. :)

Pirate1
04-03-07, 23:22
EDITOR's NOTE: This report was deleted because it was not written in English. While I encourage contributions from all volunteers, the Forum is an English-only website. Please do not post reports in any language other than English. Thanks!

Daddy07
04-04-07, 00:02
Mate,
Me think thatz only reason we goes to LOS, otherwise save me money and stay home with me beer and TV.
Me also sometimes seek the "man" out for his recommendations--zee not slimy deal, just ways of business in LOS.


pirate1

Me thinks that even common *****s are human beings who have lives -- not slaves to be rooted like scraps of meat and bargained for like property by owners. Zee deals are slimy and not good business practice for the likes of civilized men, Matey.

Old Thai Hand
04-04-07, 03:27
Me thinks that even common *****s are human beings who have lives -- not slaves to be rooted like scraps of meat and bargained for like property by owners. Zee deals are slimy and not good business practice for the likes of civilized men, Matey.

While I commend you for making the effort to learn Thai and wanting to communicate with the girls, I think you will find that you quickly tire of them after you actually learn to really talk with them. They are incredibly boring and have very uninteresting lives that centre on variations on a theme: poverty, abusive Thai men, unexpected children as a result of sexual ignorance, parents who see nothing wrong with their daughter being a prostitute, if it means they can do little but sit around their decaying farm, a brother who's invariably going to school and needs school fees, but who is more likely a juvenile delinquent knocking up more girls, who will then become prostitutes, too...etc. etc.

That being said, some people's view of these girls, as somehow nothing more than sperm receptacles is quite disgusting. This seems to be a growing trend on this board. People who think like this are scummier than the worst disease-ridden skank trolling around Sanam Luang in the dark of night.

While I am a firm believer in the 3F philosophy for those who partake of P4P, one should still view and treat these women as human beings.

Old Thai Hand
04-04-07, 15:32
BD

Geez. A bit presumptuous, aren't you?

I've read some of your 14 posts. Quite edifying stuff. I particularly like the reference to a "two bit whare" - LOL, and you rag on me for disparaging Isaan hookers? Funny stuff.

Anyway, thanks for your heart-warming comments. You're obviously one of the great intellects on here.

Oh, and I'll try to get a life. Thanks for your concern.

Opebo
04-04-07, 15:45
That being said, some people's view of these girls, as somehow nothing more than sperm receptacles is quite disgusting. This seems to be a growing trend on this board. People who think like this are scummier than the worst disease-ridden skank trolling around Sanam Luang in the dark of night.

While I am a firm believer in the 3F philosophy for those who partake of P4P, one should still view and treat these women as human beings.

I couldn't agree more, OTH. While women may be sperm receptacles to me, I never forget that she is no different than you are I - certainly no worse or better.

But the reason for my reply to your post - where is this Sanam Luang? Tell us more - I want to go!

Old Thai Hand
04-04-07, 15:49
But the reason for my reply to your post - where is this Sanam Luang? Tell us more - I want to go!

I posted that as bait. I just knew you couldn't resist. ;)

Sanam Luang is the big park across from both the Grand Palace and the National Museum. There are also hookers, I understand around Pinklao Bridge which is not far from there. But, these are truly the dregs...oh, I forgot. That's what you like.

Daddy07
04-04-07, 16:42
While I commend you for making the effort to learn Thai and wanting to communicate with the girls, I think you will find that you quickly tire of them after you actually learn to really talk with them. They are incredibly boring and have very uninteresting lives ...etc. etc.

That being said, some people's view of these girls, as somehow nothing more than sperm receptacles is quite disgusting. This seems to be a growing trend on this board.

While I am a firm believer in the 3F philosophy for those who partake of P4P, one should still view and treat these women as human beings.

OTH,

Iím going to eventually learn the rudiments of the Thai language, not solely for the purpose of talking to the hoís, (although admittedly that was the primary initial motivation), but to communicate with the rest of the ordinary natives as well. Knowing a bit of the language gave me a huge advantage over the average visitor during my last trip, and if Iím going to live there for a while I deem it an absolute necessity. You will have a lot more fun with the ladies (p4p or regular) if you can talk to them. And you are much less a stranger in a foreign country if you can speak to and understand the people there.

Iím not interested in talking with my girls in depth about Aristotelian philosophy, existentialism, and theories concerning expansion of the cosmos, however, all of them are interesting to some extent Ė even if the talk is about dysfunctional lives and families. I want to have fun with them. Actually, I plan on having a long list of young lovely little sweethearts to draw upon when I want them for social and sexual gratification. When I get bored with one Iíll simply hop to the next, and so on, while constantly adding to, and subtracting from, the list. This is something Iíve always fanaticized about but canít get away with here in the USA. If Iím lucky enough to find a diamond in the salt mine, (a regular TG of course), then Iíll settle down exclusively with her, forsaking all others until death do us part (not very likely).

What irritates me is the pervasive attitude among some guys here that itís perfectly OK to treat a woman like meat simply because she is a prostitute who has chosen to make her living by providing sexual services to us mongers. It stems, of course, from the age old religious taboo that self denial is good, sex is dirty and sex workers therefore are objects of filth, degradation, disgust and disdain. Is it any wonder that these girls become hardened after a while having to constantly deal with attitudes like that? If they are such lowlifes, then what are we who patronize them? You show me a man who has no empathy for these human beings, and I will show you the model for a sociopath.

Regards,
Daddy

Old Thai Hand
04-05-07, 01:23
Daddy

You have a very solid and positive view of things which others (perhaps myself, included) would do well to emulate.

Old Thai Hand
04-07-07, 06:52
If they are such lowlifes, then what are we who patronize them? You show me a man who has no empathy for these human beings, and I will show you the model for a sociopath.
Regards,
Daddy

Daddy

A case in point.



There is no reason for me or any other man on this board to concern themselves with any of the countless diseased sperm receptacles who populate the outback.

Daddy07
04-07-07, 14:25
Daddy

A case in point.

Iím not making any accusations, or naming any names, because I donít really know anyone here, (most of us Iím sure are just normal guys who like having sex with young women), but I have no doubt that there must be some weirdo sicko sociopaths lurking about in the cracks and crevices on this sex board. That is why I will never identify any girl Iíve met on my adventures, either by name, photograph, or written description of where she can be found.

Daddy

Old Thai Hand
04-07-07, 15:27
Iím not making any accusations, or naming any names

I know you're not.

I think you're one of the good ones on here, who has a genuine interest not in just exploiting the country and those women unfortunate enough to be in this business, but actually experiencing and learning about the culture.

Opebo
04-11-07, 07:12
I hesitate to respond to a personal attack, but JB makes some interesting points. Best moved from Safe Sex though - I don't want to clutter it up.


...Opebo, you... proceed to self medicate and advise others. You even offer medication to a 'friend'. She may be allergic, has unknown medical conditions etc...

This is an excellent point, JB, but of course a medical doctor would simply give her the medicaments to find out if she were allergic. Again, not significantly different from my own practice of the medical art.


I am sorry, you are a fool. Hookers are Hookers for a reason. Poor, uneducated with few choices. Many can't read and are completely ignorant towards proper use of pharmaceuticals.

I will not dispute your estimation of me, JB, as it is quite subjective. I would only interject that it might be more diplomatic of you, and strictly speaking more 'objectively accurate', to remark that, with me, you disagree vehemently.

As for hookers being poor, this is not news, JB, though I think their lack of education is highly exaggerated. Certainly to find an illiterate one in Thailand would be very, very difficult - no doubt more likely back in the USA.

Lastly, regarding the use of 'pharmaceuticals', the drug in question - Zithromax - is taken all in one dose. Thus, by observing her swallow it, I would have completed adequate supervision.


Ground rule in Thailand. Don't mix and mingle with hookers unless it's for sex!

In terms of 'mixing and mingling', JB, I cannot see much difference in a 'short time' session that includes five minutes devoted to this treatment and one that does not. It isn't as if I would ever let a hooker know where I live, my real name, etc.

Finally let me thank you for your kind attention to my project. I agree it would be a pointless one in more plentiful locales, but as I have said before - in this small town, she's the only good service provider! I may opt instead to move away.

Opebo
04-29-07, 13:21
I think anyone who makes pornographics videos is sick.

Seems we have a born-again christian in our midst fellows!

NicFrenchy
08-30-07, 10:23
NicFrenchy,

Why are you calling me a liar (when its so obvious you are wrong in what you said about me) but you ignore Owl's blatant lie that nothing bad is ever said about Eden in the multitude of forums he's been on?

It is not the truth you are after but simply attacking me for my opinion which is shared by many.I took the liberty of Moving this discussion here as it was Polluting the Regular Bangkok Forum.

1. I did not Call you a liar
2. I am just amazed that a person (yourself in this case) could criticise a place while never having actually tried it?

Can you tell me what exactly it is you have against the Eden club? I take it you entered the place 8 times and walked out instantly? in that case, why do you care so much about this place? just forget about Eden, plain and simple.

I do not like the Eden Club Either. Have tried it twice and found it to be too "pornographic" for my taste, I like the more "erotic" encounters.

However, having said that, the Girls I was with were certainly NOT ugly, and performed the Routine rather well.

It's just that I am not the type of customer that enjoys hardcore Fucks. Maybe as Evil does, it is better to have Takeouts?

Who knows.

Hk Dog
08-31-07, 01:37
1. I did not Call you a liar



Yes you did. Reread your post. You clearly say I admited of never stepping foot into it. Find me just ONE post where I ever say that. In fact I say the opposite.

If you want to continue this discussion, first be man enough to admit what you said was inaccurate.

LittleBigMan
08-31-07, 02:58
HKDog,

I don't have anything personal with you but your constant reply to everyone's post concerning Eden is getting very Boring! although you have a perfect right to express your opinion and although we have discussed this topic to death just recently you couldn't help yourself to add the same opinion again and again.

You mentioned that you have been to Eden over 9 times or more and walked out each time because the girls were not to your standard. You must really enjoy being punished! After all those times you still go back for what????????
If someone told you to climb a mountain because at the top you will see the most beautiful Thai women and have the best sex ever and when you do just that all you find is a ugly DOG! Maybe a normal person might try it again just to see if they were unlucky the first time but do the climb again! Find another ugly women a normal person would stop but you over 9 times, you visited and same result!

We understand the girls are not your cup of tea! and once again I know you have friends that visited and they felt the same! And we all understand what you are saying, but there are also just as many good reports about Eden that the monger just don't care that much about the looks! For those it a matter of BALANCE OF LOOKS AND SERVICE FOR THOSE THAT VISIT EDEN!

For you! Looks comes first WE UNDERSTAND THAT! But understand this not everyone feels the same and that's O.K. DOG!

Last, you must be Asian and if not you have lived in Hong Kong and Asia too long! I'm not being racist because I'm Chinese American but my father and one brother was born and raise in China and this is a sterotype that many Asian Americans( male and female ) have with Chinese that were born and raised in China. They are very stubborn and will argue that they are older and know more and even though they agree with your opinion they would augue with you! and say you are wrong just because they are not hearing EXACTLY THE WAY THEY WANT TO HEAR IT! When I read your responses you sound like my father ( rest his sole ) and brother and it drive me up the wall!

Final summary: HKDog, dont like Eden and the standard of girls is not to his his taste but he has visited with negative result over 10 of his visit.

Opponents: Other poster like myself, understand what HKDog has gone throught but many of us have different taste and lower standards than HKdog and have stayed and pick girls and had a good to great times.

NicFrenchy
08-31-07, 03:22
Yes you did. Reread your post. You clearly say I admited of never stepping foot into it. Find me just ONE post where I ever say that. In fact I say the opposite.

If you want to continue this discussion, first be man enough to admit what you said was inaccurate.Hahahahaha... fine. I will, for the sake of continuing this argument Admit I called you a liar (don't really see what that changes).

Can you now respond to the REAL questions in my post? or will you find another excuse to slip away taking the little back door?

Finrod
08-31-07, 07:29
An occasionally functional definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. No offense meant to Hkdog, but that's what it looks like to me.

To each his own (pussy). Thailand's got enough variety for all of us.

AsiaTraveler2
08-31-07, 08:35
I think its the exact opposite. My problem is I do 'get it' in Thailand and don't have to resort to quality Eden offers.

HK Dog,

You have a right to your opinion, but I just wish you weren't so insulting doing it. You have no people skills or at least have not demonstrated any in this forum. In addition, you base everything on your eyes and nothing on actual experience. Walking in the door is not the full experience.

I have only visited Eden twice in all my years of visiting BKK. It's not my kind of place, generally. I prefer places like Poseidon or the Go-Go bars. I do understand the appeal that Edens has for others and would not consider those that choose it, as having any less taste than I have. It's just that we have different types and choose different venues. I did find, on both occassions, someone that I could spend some time with and did not regret staying.

I think if you stick to actual reviews of places you have visited and spent less time insulting or attacking other guys tastes, we would all be better off. Please take this as constructive criticism. I also agree with the others that you would be better off posting in the fight club section. You seem to have something real personal against Eden.

Peace,
AT2

Hk Dog
08-31-07, 08:45
Again look at my previous issues and I repeat the same message but all choose to ignore. I constantly say the service is most likely excellent.

This is my issue with Eden Club. If one was to never come to Thailand and just read this site, you would get a sense that Eden Club and Annies are the only thing going on in Bangkok. I can imaging some schlep riding 20 hrs on a plane dreaming of fucking a Avana Lee lookalike from Eden only to be sadly disappointed.

To anyone that has lived in Asia for any period of time, those are probably 2 of the least visited places in Bangkok.

There are absolute freelance stunners that hang out at CM2 disco that can perform just as well as the 5's out of Eden. Yet, never a mention of any of those girls on this site.


My issue is BALANCE. Don't make BKK to be a 2 pony town which is what that Report Thread has become.

AsiaTraveler2
08-31-07, 09:02
This is my issue with Eden Club. If one was to never come to Thailand and just read this site, you would get a sense that Eden Club and Annies are the only thing going on in Bangkok. I can imaging some schlep riding 20 hrs on a plane dreaming of fucking a Avana Lee lookalike from Eden only to be sadly disappointed.

There are absolute freelance stunners that hang out at CM2 disco that can perform just as well as the 5's out of Eden. Yet, never a mention of any of those girls on this site.


My issue is BALANCE. Don't make BKK to be a 2 pony town which is what that Report Thread has become.

HK Dog,

I don't think any prior posts would lead anyone to think they are getting a model at Eden. I have never gotten that impression and don't know of anyone who has. Almost everyone has said service over looks and even Evel said "they are not as bad as people say". He did not say they were beauty queens. Everyone will find out first hand if it is to their tastes, once they see the lineup. From there, it is their choice and I don't really care which way they decide to go.

Second, CM2 and other places have been reviewed numerous times and there was balance until you attacked a poster. I understand where you are coming from, but your heavy handed approach lead to the "imbalance" of posts on behalf of Eden, since people will defend Evel who is a likeable guy.

We all know BKK is not a 2 pony town and one sure way of letting others know is posting about these other places! Knocking Eden instead of posting of the virtues of other venues is a sure fire way of making sure all we talk about is Eden. I sure hope you can see where I'm coming from.

Talk about CM2, review the Coyote Clubs, discuss the virtues of the Pent Executive Club, post about your experiences at Pegasus, tell us who you met at Gullivers, or how you met up with some hot freelancer at some hole in the wall pool bar. Ask questions about new places you heard of, but have yet to try. That's the way you ensure balance.

I for one, would love to see more posts of these other venues. For my part, I'm trying.

AT2

AsiaTraveler2
08-31-07, 09:32
HKDog,
We understand the girls are not your cup of tea! and once again I know you have friends that visited and they felt the same! And we all understand what you are saying, but there are also just as many good reports about Eden that the monger just don't care that much about the looks! For those it a matter of BALANCE OF LOOKS AND SERVICE FOR THOSE THAT VISIT EDEN!

For you! Looks comes first WE UNDERSTAND THAT! But understand this not everyone feels the same and that's O.K. DOG!

Last, you must be Asian and if not you have lived in Hong Kong and Asia too long! I'm not being racist because I'm Chinese American but my father and one brother was born and raise in China and this is a sterotype that many Asian Americans( male and female ) have with Chinese that were born and raised in China. They are very stubborn and will argue that they are older and know more and even though they agree with your opinion they would augue with you! and say you are wrong just because they are not hearing EXACTLY THE WAY THEY WANT TO HEAR IT! When I read your responses you sound like my father ( rest his sole ) and brother and it drive me up the wall!

Final summary: HKDog, dont like Eden and the standard of girls is not to his his taste but he has visited with negative result over 10 of his visit.

Opponents: Other poster like myself, understand what HKDog has gone throught but many of us have different taste and lower standards than HKdog and have stayed and pick girls and had a good to great times.

LBM,

LOL! Great post and I can so relate! I'm Asian and my dad has a good friend who is in that 60+ year old age group, from China. I think his friend argues just for the sake of arguing! And like you said .. even after you agree, just for the sake of ending the discussion, they will argue more! It's because you don't agree in the way that they want you to agree! LOL! They can be great friends, good people, but that one part of their culture and\or personality can drive you up the wall!

I have walked a way many a time and later made peace. His son is born in the states and does not carry that trait, so it could be a cultural thing of that time or maybe it's just him! LOL! Sorry if this offends anyone, since I do realize how dangerous this slippery slope of stereotyping can be.

Peace,
AT2

NicFrenchy
08-31-07, 09:33
This is my issue with Eden Club. If one was to never come to Thailand and just read this site, you would get a sense that Eden Club and Annies are the only thing going on in Bangkok. I can imaging some schlep riding 20 hrs on a plane dreaming of fucking a Avana Lee lookalike from Eden only to be sadly disappointed. Well then the "schlep" riding that plane deserves the sad disappointment for being a Moron and not reading the forum properly. In NO reviews dies it say Eden Girls are even Close to Avana Lee (if that's even your dream girl)


To anyone that has lived in Asia for any period of time, those are probably 2 of the least visited places in Bangkok.Really? and I am sure you have Proof of that?

I am eagerly waiting to see them, providing they exist of course, but my guess is you're full of shit on this one.


There are absolute freelance stunners that hang out at CM2 disco that can perform just as well as the 5's out of Eden. Yet, never a mention of any of those girls on this site.HK Dog, instead of Whining and dragging your sorry ass in the Thailand Section, why don't you Post a Real Review? huh? why not give these places you like so much a "mention"? You are free to do so.

I for one would actually enjoy a review about these places.

You wrote in one of your previous posts that you have enough stories to write a Book (unless I misread), then what are you waiting for? write something interesting for a Change.

Hk Dog
08-31-07, 09:44
HK Dog,

I don't think any prior posts would lead anyone to think they are getting a model at Eden. I have never gotten that impression and don't know of anyone who has.

AT2

Its reverse persuasion. Whenever someone comments on the quality of Eden girls, a few come on to challenge it. Look back at the threads. I am not the only one who questioned the quality and got pounded. Others have fallen into same trap.

Look at the last comment when someone criticized Eden Club not because of the quality of the girls but made a reference to how you are treated if you are just browsing.

The previous poster was complaining about he didn't like being followed around with a flashlight. The comment 'then you shouldn't go into Eden' was completely justified and correct. You can't go into Eden and walk around and do nothing. That is a fact. However the poster who made the comment was pounded on for making a critical remark for Eden.

AsiaTraveler2
08-31-07, 10:19
The previous poster was complaining about he didn't like being followed around with a flashlight. The comment 'then you shouldn't go into Eden' was completely justified and correct. You can't go into Eden and walk around and do nothing. That is a fact. However the poster who made the comment was pounded on for making a critical remark for Eden.

I agree with you on this point. I saw that too and felt that response was unjustified. I think it's best to let this topic cool right now, since responses right now are all based on emotion.

I still think the best way to put BKK venues in perspective is to provide other options and review other places. Anyone who walks into Eden can decide if that place is for them and it's not like it's very far or that the hobbyist will waste much time finding the place. Let them decide. Denigrating other peoples tastes, just leads to conflict w/o resolution.

AT2

NicFrenchy
08-31-07, 10:31
You can't go into Eden and walk around and do nothing. That is a fact. Yes, you cannot go there and have a drink, settle down, look around, chit chat.

The below Message is a Quote from the Bar Owner:


The Eden Club is not for everybody.

We are a Club specialized in sessions for one man with two or more ladies. If you want something else, then you should probably look elsewhere. We are not a drinking bar, a go-go bar or a massage parlor. Everybody is welcome the first time to have a drink and to get to know the concept. We do ask that you pay a second visit only if you are in the mood for pleasure. If things are busy, then feel free to enjoy a drink and wait in the club. However, we are not interested in 50 or more guys just sitting and drinking in so few square meters.I think this is self Explanatory.

LittleBigMan
09-01-07, 02:04
AT2,

It's nice to know I'm not alone. After my post he comes right back with the same line. Right now all I can say is a long chinese " A Ya "

In school when a teacher had to explain it over and over and over and over again! Sooner or later people wonder if the student is stupid and that is being kind!

LBM

Evil Penivel
09-02-07, 18:29
HK Dog-

I realize that English isn't your native language, so I'll try to keep my reply as simple as I can. The big mistake you're making is to assume everyone on this board shares your interpretation of the 1-to-10 scale. You seem to feel there's universal agreement on what constitutes physical beauty in women. You also assume everyone has the same goals and needs with their hobby activity as you do, which is equally erroneous.

That's obviously wrong. Each punter is looking for something different and has his own ideas about beauty. As I wrote before, you went to Eden eight or nine times and didn't find any ladies that were attractive; I went many more times than that and found a lot of ladies I found attractive. We have different opinions, that's all. There's nothing to argue about. All you've proven is that it's not a good idea for you to go back to Eden a 10th time.

Neither I nor anyone else has ever said Eden is the only place in BKK worth visiting. I stated explicitly that Eden may very well not be the best choice for each and every punter. Even edenpapa (Marc) has said that as well - you can read it in the quote in NicFrenchy's post. Eden is one option in a city with hundreds of P4P venues. You don't like Eden, fine, go somewhere else. But that doesn't make it a bad choice for a lot of other readers of this board.

Your attacks on Eden go way beyond stating your preference. In one post, you said the Eden ladies looked like meth addicts. That's an absurd statement. Anyone who could write that has never been to Eden or has never seen a meth addict. I posted pictures of two of the Eden ladies - Wa and Pla. Are you honestly going to maintain they look like meth addicts? They may not be the prettiest ladies in BKK, but if they are your idea of 4s and 5s, I wish you'd tell us where we can find 9s and 10s. But what you rank doesn't matter - on my personal scale, they rank high enough for me to keep coming back.

I've asked you, others have as well, to give the details of how you find stunners who give the same service as Eden ladies. You said it doesn't take much work. It shouldn't be hard for you to write a quick post describing the process. I'm never too proud to learn. Tell me how it's done and I'll give it a try next time I'm in Bangkok, which will be November.

The only specific information you've given is to suggest stunners can be found at CM2. I agree that several years ago you could find some pretty ladies at CM2, not all of whom were available for P4P. even back then, finding one CM2 FLer who gave the same service as an Eden lady would have been exceptionally difficult, finding two for an Eden-type session would have been the equivalent of winning a $100 million lottery.

But things have changed in recent years and that makes me wonder when you last visited Siam Square(d). Nowadays hardcore hookers from ex-Soviet states, mostly Uzbehkistan, outnumber Thai ladies. The dominant customer group has also changed. You may be indulging in nostalgia rather than giving an up-to-date tip.

Again, it doesn't matter much for me because the setup at CM2 doesn't suit my needs. No matter how good-looking the ladies are or aren't, the practicalities make it difficult for me. Things get underway at CM2 at about 2330 hrs and then I'd have to spend time and effort to find girls who'd agree to the kind of session I want. The window of opportunity is small indeed at CM2 and chances are very high a punter will go home alone.

When I'm in BKK, it's mostly for work. I have to get up at 700 hrs because my day starts at 8.30 and is filled with meetings, staff training sessions, presentations, etc. In the evening, I usually have to go to dinner with a colleague or customer. It's not until around 2100 hrs I'm free for more pleasureable pursuits. I don't want to start hunting for a lady then, especially when there is no guarantee I'll find one who gives great service.

That's the big advantage with Eden - it's very convenient and service is guaranteed. You get exactly what you request. I don't even have to go to Soi 7/1. I can just call the club and the ladies will be sent to my hotel. It works well for me, I can't ask for better. You and others may not like that approach. Up to you. But none of what you say makes Eden a bad choice for me or the thousands of other satisfied customers.

Evil

PS - I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Let me make a prediction. In a few days we'll see a report about someone who visited Eden, thought the ladies were mediocre looking but decided to have a session anyway to test the fabled Eden service. During the session something atrocious happens, like he notices warts on a lady's asshole. At least that's the way the script has played out on other boards in the past. One thing is 100% certain - he won't remember what her name was.

Evil

Giotto
09-02-07, 19:47
...
PS - I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Let me make a prediction. In a few days we'll see a report about someone who visited Eden, thought the ladies were mediocre looking but decided to have a session anyway to test the fabled Eden service. During the session something atrocious happens, like he notices warts on a lady's asshole. At least that's the way the script has played out on other boards in the past. One thing is 100% certain - he won't remember what her name was.
...
Evil Penivel,

Come on, man, take it easy. There a lots of positive reviews of Eden in the threads. Don't lose credibility.


Giotto

AsiaTraveler2
09-02-07, 21:41
My personal opinion is that most will find that Eden is somewhere in between those that are pro Eden and those that hate it. Think Bell Curve and you will find that HK Dog and Evil are probably at the extreme polar opposites and most of us are closer to the center of the curve in this debate.

I find that the average looks of the girls at Eden are about 5-6 (average being 5.5). Some slightly better and some slightly worse. I want to make it clear, that a 6 is not ugly. I had a great time with a girl at Alice massage and to me she was a 6. Her personality and the fact that we clicked, won me over. I thought she was cute.

You can find better looking girls at the Soapies, Gentlemen's clubs and of course Nana and Soi Cowboy. I would like to note that "better looking" in this case is just my opinion. Others may differ and disagree. Eden will give you a different experience. It's for guys who like consistent service and the two girl experience. There is clearly a difference in what constitutes beauty between different cultures, based on the various outlets that cater to different nationalities. Keep this in mind.

You need to decide what's important for yourself. Some are all about looks and some are all about service and most of us like to mix it up. I prefer other options, but I can understand the appeal of Eden. Eden is very easy to find, so just stick your head in and decide for yourself. Very simple.

Just my 2 cents.

AT2

Animby
09-03-07, 08:56
You seem to feel there's universal agreement on what constitutes physical beauty in women.Here! Here!

One to ten? In which society? How can we farangs even start to quantify the beauty of a local? Only by using our own cultural and nurtured preferences.

I have a friend who came to visit who thinks Thai ladies look like ugly children. Well, I've never had a thing for ugly children but I do have a thing for Thai ladies. I know another guy who came to Chiang Mai because he heard the women were lighter skinned here. Damn! Still brown! I like brown. I suggested he move to Sweden.

I look at some of the pictures on the photo forum and think, sheesh! I wouldn't fuck that with NicFrenchy's dick. Yet, the poster thinks she's an eight!

Besides, how often do you find the lady's bedroom skills are inversely proportional to her looks? More often than I'd like to admit.

I've had the good fortune to live in a bunch of different countries and travel in many more. In my experience, each one has many heavenly beauties. And just as many godawful two baggers.

Hk Dog
09-03-07, 09:19
I've asked you, others have as well, to give the details of how you find stunners who give the same service as Eden ladies. You said it doesn't take much work. It shouldn't be hard for you to write a quick post describing the process. I'm never too proud to learn. Tell me how it's done and I'll give it a try next time I'm in Bangkok, which will be November.


I don't know how you are going to read this since you have put me on ignore and I believe you are a man of your word.

The details?? Ok. First live in Asia so you can develop close friends who have major contacts. In my case it includes guys living in BKK with jobs and salaries that are comparable to NYC and also farangs that are the (real) owners of major nightclubs (not go go's or beer bars but the top dance/rave joints).

I am not going to jeopordize my long relationship with these guys by referring a stranger on the internet to them.

Maybe you would but I won't.

NicFrenchy
09-03-07, 16:37
The details?? Ok. First live in Asia so you can develop close friends who have major contacts. In my case it includes guys living in BKK with jobs and salaries that are comparable to NYC and also farangs that are the (real) owners of major nightclubs (not go go's or beer bars but the top dance/rave joints).

I am not going to jeopordize my long relationship with these guys by referring a stranger on the internet to them.

Maybe you would but I won't.In other words, you're completely full of shit, As usual.

Evil Penivel
09-03-07, 17:07
I don't know how you are going to read this since you have put me on ignore and I believe you are a man of your word.

I never said anything about putting you on ignore. You're confusing my comments with a sarcastic rhetorical question posted by someone else.


The details?? Ok. First live in Asia so you can develop close friends who have major contacts.

Moving in Asia would exclude the vast majority of the readers of this board and 99.99% of the farang short-time visitors to LOS. That's sort of like telling someone who has financial problems the solution is to win a lottery - easier said than done. And what about the guys who can't move to Asia? Is it then OK for them to go to Eden?


In my case it includes guys living in BKK with jobs and salaries that are comparable to NYC and also farangs that are the (real) owners of major nightclubs (not go go's or beer bars but the top dance/rave joints).

I am not going to jeopordize my long relationship with these guys by referring a stranger on the internet to them.



That doesn't sound like a quick or easy process to me. It doesn't fit too well with your post that stated - I quote you now - ''with a tiny amount of work it is easily possible to get the same service as Eden girls and have model looks.'' (The quote can be found in a post here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=631714&postcount=4101).

When pressed, you explain that "a tiny amount of work" involves: a) moving to Asia; and b) cultivating long-term personal relationships with night club owners.

Is that the only way to find an alternative to Eden? Any suggestions that don't include a full-scale move half-way around the world?

Evil

AsiaTraveler2
09-03-07, 18:10
Evil,

This is just constructive criticism regarding Eden and some suggestions and questions.

1) It seems that only regulars or early birds have first shot. Would management consider having a book of photos? I have not gone back, since I could not find two that I liked. Always just one and did not like the pairing. Having a book of photos, would allow me to browse and book an appointment. Seems simple enough.

2) Why not allow customers some time to choose or talk to the girls, over a drink? I understand that the club is small, but I have never seen the bar area packed. I'm talking about 5-10 minutes as opposed to 2 minutes. I can't imagine this would turn the bar area into Grand Central Station. I felt "pushed" to make a decision. Not by anyone in particular, but by the set up and procedures. In many of the soapies these days, the girls are sitting either on the couches or stools around a lounge or bar area. I was able to drink a beer and talk to a couple and get an idea of who would be a good fit, personality wise.

I think it would be great if the host or mamasan said have a beer, here's the lineup, chit-chat with the girls for 5 minutes and I will be right back to hear your decision, or something to that effect. I don't like it when the managers at the soapies hang over my shoulder and always put distance between us, so I can decide in peace. I actually think the size of Eden Club could be an advantage using a short get to know each other moment, since it is a cozy bar.

As a businessman, I don't think either of these two small requests would hurt the business and I would think it would help bring some "non-regulars" back. Just a thought.

Peace,
AT2

NicFrenchy
09-03-07, 18:56
Having a book of photos, would allow me to browse and book an appointment. Seems simple enough.AT2,

That won't work. Even if there was a Photo Album, or even a website and you were able to book, a VIP could still pick the girl you booked and you would be left with having to choose another girl or leave.

VIPs have priority on choice of ladies and priority on choice of rooms.

As for your other suggestions, I can see where you are coming from and I also would like the ability to chat with the girls before choosing, but I am sure the decision was made for a good reason.

Freeler
09-03-07, 19:38
AR2,

It must be Sibelius blasting out the speakers here, but I fully agree that a girl (or two for that matter) that you choose to fuck you senseless need(s)a "good fit".
Personality wise?
Not!

Tiger 888
09-04-07, 01:15
I don't know how you are going to read this since you have put me on ignore and I believe you are a man of your word.

The details?? Ok. First live in Asia so you can develop close friends who have major contacts. In my case it includes guys living in BKK with jobs and salaries that are comparable to NYC and also farangs that are the (real) owners of major nightclubs (not go go's or beer bars but the top dance/rave joints).

I am not going to jeopordize my long relationship with these guys by referring a stranger on the internet to them.

Maybe you would but I won't.So when you wrote that it was very easy to find good looking girls to perform similar service as in Eden you did mean one needs close friends who have major contacts like "guys living in BKK with jobs and salaries that are comparable to NYC and also farangs that are the (real) owners of major nightclubs". (It seems hell freezes over that I would ever post in the fight club).

Hk Dog
09-04-07, 02:11
So when you wrote that it was very easy to find good looking girls to perform similar service as in Eden you did mean one needs close friends who have major contacts like "guys living in BKK with jobs and salaries that are comparable to NYC and also farangs that are the (real) owners of major nightclubs". (It seems hell freezes over that I would ever post in the fight club).


No, you are reading it like that. That is just one way, not the only way. Look its a game called life. If you think life follows one life or one path then I can't help you.

AsiaTraveler2
09-04-07, 02:14
AR2,

It must be Sibelius blasting out the speakers here, but I fully agree that a girl (or two for that matter) that you choose to fuck you senseless need(s)a "good fit".
Personality wise?
Not!

Freeler,

You are priceless! Not! LOL! I hope you had fun in Pattaya.

AT2

Hk Dog
09-04-07, 02:17
That doesn't sound like a quick or easy process to me. It doesn't fit too well with your post that stated - I quote you now - ''with a tiny amount of work it is easily possible to get the same service as Eden girls and have model looks.'' (The quote can be found in a post here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=631714&postcount=4101).

Evil


A little bit of work involved making them laugh and feel comfortable. As for the venue, its anywhere from 'proper' disco , house party down to Nana Disco.

Freeler
09-04-07, 13:09
Yep,

I had heaps of fun in Pattaya. Beach road was really priceless. Stunners left and right and not a Falang in sight. Life is good.
Just forget about 'personality'. I had some 'meaningful' talks with TGs. But I couldn't a remember a single one of those talks right now...:)
3F!
BTW In Eden, follow the advise given here many times in the past: Choose one and accept her choice of friend. You will not be short changed!

Opebo
09-04-07, 20:15
...Beach road was really priceless. Stunners left and right and not a Falang in sight.

You must have been visiting the Beach Road at some unusual time that I never did - perhaps morningtime or early afternoon? Because I don't recall seeing any stunners there at all (though admittedly I prefer not to arise, or particularly to visit the beach, while the brutal tropical sun is still high in the sky).

SidTheSexist
09-05-07, 05:16
The details?? Ok. First live in Asia so you can develop close friends who have major contacts. In my case it includes guys living in BKK with jobs and salaries that are comparable to NYC and also farangs that are the (real) owners of major nightclubs (not go go's or beer bars but the top dance/rave joints).And then quite 'simply,' pick any of these stunners, and her best mate, to leave with you for a night of endless fucking and sucking in every hole with a full on lesbian strap on show in between loads?!?!?!?!? yeah, that sounds pretty easy actually!! :D
Sid

Hk Dog
09-05-07, 05:19
And then quite 'simply,' pick any of these stunners, and her best mate, to leave with you for a night of endless fucking and sucking in every hole with a full on lesbian strap on show in between loads?!?!?!?!? yeah, that sounds pretty easy actually!! :D
Sid


Yes, I guess my life is your fantasy.

Freeler
09-05-07, 06:37
Opebo,

I am of the opinion that daytime is for living and nighttime is for sleeping.
So yes, I visit BR mainly during daytime, when it is light and the sun is shining and takes care of vitamin production and such. And you can see what is out there: a whole bunch of stunners this last trip.

Evil Penivel
09-06-07, 20:19
The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone. The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone.

But it is a very good choice for some guys!

Hope this clears things up.

Evil

PS- The Eden Club is not the best choice for everyone.

Freeler
09-06-07, 20:45
Evil,

Sure hope you used ctrl+c and ctrl+v to write that post.
It sounds a bit like an American in a foreign country tho. Starts out saying " Don't understand", but after a minute or so shouts "Don't understand".
Never mind. As long as your bloodpressure is as good as mine:D

Evil Penivel
09-06-07, 22:44
Evil,

Sure hope you used ctrl+c and ctrl+v to write that post.


I sure did.

But I wasn't shouting, just writing the answers to the next 10 posts by HK Dog.

Evil

NicFrenchy
09-07-07, 04:29
I'm not going to Clog the Bangkok report section by replying to HK Dog so I post it here.


I was almost going to post the photos yest but stopped myself. These girls are now married or are running sucessful business' in their home country. No need to potentially ruin their lives to prove a point.

Once again, you are Full of shit. If these pictures really existed, you would have posted them already. There are hundreds of ways to hide a person's identity on a picture without ruining their carreer, the problem with you is that the pictures don't exist adn you made the whole thing up.


You will never ever find these girls working in a place like Eden. If they did then they have the IQ of a overipe mango.

how charming

Hk Dog
09-07-07, 05:08
There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service.There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service.There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service.There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service. There is no 'A' team at Eden and the girls are 5-6 on scale but perform good service.

Giotto
09-07-07, 05:32
We should change the name of this thread to "KINDERGARTEN".


Giotto

SidTheSexist
09-07-07, 07:13
I was almost going to post the photos yest but stopped myself. These girls are now married or are running sucessful business' in their home country. No need to potentially ruin their lives to prove a pointI was going to relpy but stopped myself. No point, your full of shit!
PS, if these girls are all back in their 'home' countries, why are you writing about them in the BKK thread???

AsiaTraveler2
09-07-07, 07:28
We should change the name of this thread to "KINDERGARTEN".


Giotto

Giotto,

I almost agree, except I think it would be an insult to the kids! They actually know when to stop, when asked!

AT2

Hk Dog
09-07-07, 08:36
I was going to relpy but stopped myself. No point, your full of shit!
PS, if these girls are all back in their 'home' countries, why are you writing about them in the BKK thread???


yes I am full of shit. Imagine my insanity of believing there are Thai women who work abroad and go back 'home' when the money is no longer needed.

Thanks Sid for setting me straight. My last decade in Asia has been an illusion and you have woken me up. I have alot to learn from you.

Giotto
09-07-07, 21:53
yes I am full of shit. Imagine my insanity of believing there are Thai women who work abroad and go back 'home' when the money is no longer needed.

Thanks Sid for setting me straight. My last decade in Asia has been an illusion and you have woken me up. I have alot to learn from you.Hk Dog,

I don't know whether you are full of shit.

But you write a lot of nonsense here. You finally came to the same result as many reg. Eden Club (Look vs. Service Level discussion). That is not too bad.

But you did not provide any new places / details where to find "super" providers, but some strange theories about knowing owners of bars/clubs and taking their connections and advices for finding those girls. Yes, every ISG reading tourist staying for some days in this city can do that, for sure. Your advices are very helpful. Thank you!

Ridiculous, and ARROGANT!

Bangkok Thread: And of course we can pick up up-market stunners in Nana's Angels disco! For sure! We bring them to Penninsula hotel! Tomorrow - I will do.

No, I will not. You talk a lot, my friend - a lot nonsense. Bad advice for newbies coming to Bangkok.


Giotto

Hk Dog
09-10-07, 01:46
Hk Dog,

But you write a lot of nonsense here.
Ridiculous, and ARROGANT!

Bangkok Thread: And of course we can pick up up-market stunners in Nana's Angels disco! For sure! We bring them to Penninsula hotel! Tomorrow - I will do.

No, I will not. You talk a lot, my friend - a lot nonsense. Bad advice for newbies coming to Bangkok.


Giotto


What bee has gotten in your bonnet?? Nana Disco is bad advice for newbies?? I've taken many a Newbie there and they loved it over the go go's across the street.

SidTheSexist
09-10-07, 07:11
yes I am full of shit. Imagine my insanity of believing there are Thai women who work abroad and go back 'home' when the money is no longer needed.Thanks Sid for setting me straight. My last decade in Asia has been an illusion and you have woken me up. I have alot to learn from you.Sorry Dog, either I wasnt totally clear or you misunderstood me. My point was that we are talking about 'stunners' offering Eden service, in the BANGKOK thread. If they've all gone back to their home countries, then I gather they are obviously not Thai? Can you see why I was a little confused. Even if they did work Bangkok before, its a bit pointless reffering to them now as your alternative to Eden.
Hope that clears some things up!
Sid

Hk Dog
09-10-07, 07:26
Sorry Dog, either I wasnt totally clear or you misunderstood me. Sid


I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about Thai girls who work overseas who are quite attractive and can offer most Eden services (like I said they may not stick a dildo up your ass) who can be found in BKK but usually not working.

Hk Dog
09-10-07, 07:41
Also let me clear something up. I never said my way was the ONLY way to get Eden experience outside Club Eden. I personally am not into 2somes or anal.

My friend who had the bisexual Chinese gf (who yelled at him for bringing her Eden) always found attractive bisexual girls (that both enjoyed) in the disco's by asking around. That is what I mean 'a little work'.

Obviously one cannot recreate what I have done as a option for the random traveller. It was in response to a someone doubting how 'I' did it.

The Traveler
09-27-07, 12:50
We should change the name of this thread to "KINDERGARTEN".

Is that the reason why you show up here so often ? :)

Ralph Kramden
09-27-07, 14:53
TT

I don't care what he said, that was a nasty below-the-belt cut against Giotto. You should stop in his establishment and meet him sometime because he is really a nice, well meaning person who has contributed a lot to this board. And I think you should apologize to him. This is coming from someone who defended you against YOU KNOW WHO.

1Ball
09-27-07, 16:16
Ralph, they have met. They love each other ;)

Come on, Giotto's post is 3 weeks old. Don't you think it takes an agenda to go back 3 weeks, to find something to quote?

Giotto
09-28-07, 08:56
Ralph, Mr. Vice President,

I am right now in Phuket :) . It is such a hard life - I can tell you...


Giotto

Piper1
09-28-07, 11:55
Nice response. As the saying goes, the sweetest revenge is having a good life. :D

Ralph Kramden
09-28-07, 15:15
Ah yes, many good memories from Karon Beach. I might try and fit it into my up and cumming Xmas mongering run.

Life is so very sweet, especially when you are not with your wife.

Right Giotto?

Traveler1234
09-28-07, 15:35
Ralph, Mr. Vice President,

I am right now in Phuket :) . It is such a hard life - I can tell you...

Giotto

Priceless......;)

Giotto
09-30-07, 05:44
Ah yes, many good memories from Karon Beach. I might try and fit it into my up and cumming Xmas mongering run.

Life is so very sweet, especially when you are not with your wife.

Right Giotto?Ralph Kramden,

BESTARD!!! But right!

Now - I have too many of them, so - how to get away? No hunting this time :( !


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
10-20-07, 15:13
Not sure why he sees himself as a "Blunderer", as he writes quite well.

In contrast to the those continually denigrating Thai girls who find an opportunity for a better life, a compassionate view:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=657793&postcount=308

I don't see us Mongers as being superior, only being the ones with the money.


We're not denigrating Thai girls, (I love Thai girls) we're denigrating incredibly old and ugly Thai hookers who con stupid , blind Farang with self-worth issues and bad taste into a ticket to the West.

M P Lurker
10-21-07, 17:13
We're not denigrating Thai girls, (I love Thai girls) we're denigrating incredibly old and ugly Thai hookers who con stupid , blind Farang with self-worth issues and bad taste into a ticket to the West.
OTH,
You seem very intellegent but like to use colourful language to denegrate various groups just a little too much. Makes it seem like you are grumpy most of the time.
A bit more emphasis on positive things would be nice.
e.g. what things you love about Thai girls.
Perhaps it doesn't interest you to write about the positives as often?
"mai dtong duu thuuk"

Old Thai Hand
10-22-07, 01:48
oth,
you seem very intellegent but like to use colourful language to denegrate various groups just a little too much. makes it seem like you are grumpy most of the time.
a bit more emphasis on positive things would be nice.
e.g. what things you love about thai girls.
perhaps it doesn't interest you to write about the positives as often?
"mai dtong duu thuuk"

lol. well, i am often grumpy on here (but not generally in life) because of a lot of the crap that is written. one problem is that you guys on here don't differentiate between thai girls and thai hookers, maybe because few of you ever meet anything but girls from p4p. so, you simply are ignorant of the difference. as i have so often explained in the past, there is a big difference.

so, here goes...

negatives: i hate girls in p4p because:

1/ they are often loud and obnoxious (listen to how they shout at each other all the time)
2/ they speak thai badly (when they speak it at all) and use the most base language more often than not
3/ many dress like hookers, even in public and look cheap and tawdry
4/ they walk like hookers (and often, like truckers)
5/ they are extremely forward (i guess due to the nature of their profession)
6/ they tend to be dirty (i know you guys waffle on about how clean they are compared to western women. but, compared to regular tgs, they are dirty and often smell a bit).
7/ generally, they don't know how to behave properly in public places - they have atrocious table manners
8/ they are often prone to violence - catfights are common, assaulting/stabbing farangs (more common than you might imagine)
9/ they are (i suppose by necessity) mercenary
10/ "the life" puts understandable wear and tear on the body (and mind) so that by 25 they look and act 45

positives: i love thai girls because:

1/ they speak quietly in a mellifluous and lilting tone
2/ they speak thai politely, and if they speak isaan or another dialect (passaa pak nua, for example), it sounds quite charming
3/ they dress nicely, and even if they dress sexily, they carry it off with grace and style
4/ they don't walk so much as float, gliding in a graceful measured gait
5/ they are somewhat shy and demure and wait for the man to make the move
6/ they are impeccable in their cleanliness, both in body and dress
7/ they know exactly how to behave in public, showing the correct defference for their elders, respect to their peers and kindness and consideration to those younger
8/ while they can be pyscho sometimes, it never goes beyond hysterics and histrionics and they can be easily calmed with the right words - knives seldom make an appearance :)
9/ while it is true, some can be mercenary, the money issue has a very different aura about it, than in p4p because it is merely about the support expected in a traditional patriarchy. if you understand the culture, you should understand this.
10/ imho, they generally look younger than their years, hold their age well and are more beautiful than girls in p4p. btw, contrary to popular belief on here, i don't think it has anything to do with skin color. there are beautiful, dark-skinned non-p4p girls, from the south especially, and ugly white-skinned hookers from chiang mai.


someone once wrote on here that they couldn't understand why, if i have such contempt for girls in p4p, i would bother with this board. well, if you look at the purpose of this board, it is to find women for sex, not necessarily hookers for sex. so, i write about regular thai women, with whom i have had considerable experience.

Piper1
10-22-07, 01:56
OTH - nice. You've put a lot of thought into this, and it raises some thoughts, Ol' Grump. :) I like it.

(Waitaminute - shouldn't we be fighting?)

Terry Terrier
10-22-07, 02:39
(waitaminute - shouldn't we be fighting?)

positives: i love thai girls because:

1)they talk shit in a polite accent.
2)they talk shit in a tone of voice that i like (a polite accent).
3)they dress nicely, and even if they dress sexily, they carry it off because they use a different hole to shag than their working class counterparts.
4)see 5
5)see 6
6)see7
7)they know exactly how to behave in public, showing the correct defference (arai?) for their elders, respect to their peers and kindness and consideration to those younger, and how to treat people from the areas outside of greater bangkok like the lowlife pieces of shit that they are.
8)while they can be pyscho sometimes, it never goes beyond hysterics and histrionics, and their brothers and uncles who were placed in their senior positions in the police by influential family members can be easily calmed by the right coloured bank notes.
9)if you can understand the macro and micro economics of rice farming you can understand the thai class system.
10)contrary to popular belief, i think that thai nigarahos can sing and dance as good as any nigarahos in the world.

Old Thai Hand
10-22-07, 03:13
Terry

Now we have a fight!...lol...Pollyanna, self-righteous, politically correct, do-gooder that you are.

Then again...let's leave each other to our illusions.

Run Mann
10-22-07, 04:50
Well, I'll bite (again). For someone who repeatedly over-generalize, exaggerate and embellish on a sex board about how great regular Thai women are (whatever regular means) like they come from some special universe compared to Thai hookers, here is a news flash. He has conspicuously refused to respond to someone calling his so call "regularĒ girl friend ďa "hoĒ and a "sl*t" You would think the Thai defender of regular girls would have at least defended her honor or could it be that he has no defense?

This theme of regular Thai girls versus Thai hookers is so old and broken itís beyond boring. He has preached the same message for ages now, but the hookers and their patrons are still doing what they do meanwhile taking years off the life of a man with his anger in an un-winnable crusade as silly as this.

NF,

I don't say that OTH isn't a charmer and a handsome man.
I'm just saying that his GF is a ho


Damn OTH,

So your woman is "fairly HiSo, or at the very least upper middle-class", but you fucked her on the second day.
In "at the very least" middle class circles, that makes her a sl*t-slash-wh*re.
If she can cook too, and cleans the house, you got yourself a package.
Fairly HiSo..? My ass!

Old Thai Hand
10-22-07, 05:44
Run Mann or is it Runn Man?

I'm not angry. I'm just having some fun...or is it funn?

I didn't defend my GF's honor because, I'm not that sensitive, Freeler was having a laugh and anyway, it doesn't need defending.

She's a true gem, and everyone on here should be as lucky as I am to have someone as good as her.

Run Mann
10-22-07, 10:25
Funny but you sure have an angry way of being funny and having fun and I'm glad you're not angry as you usually are. However, come on Hand! You can do better than that. Remember when your Cousin Obebo made some innocuous reference to the aforementioned GF and you went off on him for insinuating that she was a ho. You must have some inside joke with Freeler because he sure seems to be overtly calling you a liar. You want to defend all ďregular" (what does that mean?) Thai girls but your hi-so gf being call a ho and a sl*t is ok because itís a joke? A mercurial position to take old man but itís consistent with you other positions on here.





Btw, I am going to the Embassy next week with Lek my 52 year old bride (she looks 29) with a big toothy smile from Korat for a tourist VISA. Yes she made be twice my age but I am only telling you this because you are only having fun and not angry.

Old Thai Hand
10-22-07, 14:05
Run

Yes, I remember when Opebo made the comment and I concede that I was stupid and overreacted. I WAS angry, in those days. In the case of the Freeler comment, what should I have done? Sure, I could get all indignant and angry that some anonymous person, who I don't know called my GF names. But, what would be the point? Are people here going to then say, "Ok. OTH has explained it, now. His GF really isn't a ho. Freeler was wrong and should be admonished". There's actually no point my saying anything, is there? People will think whatever they want.

In the case of my differentiating (not defending) regular TGs from the P4P girls, I have a distinct point, which is to try (probably a lost cause, though) to enlighten the knuckle-draggers coming here for their little sex tours that not all Thai girls are hookers or in any way, shape or form the same as the girls these guys regularly encounter when they come here. If it's a crusade, of sorts, it's because of personal experience. Where I used to live was near some beer bars. On several occasions, while simply walking home, my GF was accosted by these knucke-draggers, some who actually touched her. I was even with her in 7/11 one night near these bars and while I was at the back, some [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)-drunk Farang scumbag came up to her and started harrassing her and touching her, asking her, "How much". Although the area is actually a reasonably good area not far from Emporium, she begged me to move to somewhere safer. It's sad that it was dangerous for her, not because of some local danger, but because of Farang assholes who don't know how to behave properly and have a bad attitude about Thai women.

Run Mann
10-22-07, 15:35
OTH,

What you should have done is a non-issue at this point, I was only pointing out the difference in how you reacted in similar situation. However since you ask, I would say you should not have posted anything about your gf at all. I suspect Freeler as well as others were tired of you beating your chest and telling the board how much better you were/are than the rest of us (the way it came across).

I know we are suppose to be fighting but I will give you this, you have the ability to restrain yourself very well because this is the second time I have engaged you in these type discussion and both times you were level-headed and reflective in your response which shows that you are not some lunatic incapable of inductive reasoning. My advice to you as many others have said before is to share your knowledge and keep your qualifications and tangibles (job/gf/status/connection) to yourself unless you have to use it to make a point.

There are no experts in the world, we all have some knowledge but how we share out knowledge makes a huge difference. If you ever get away from the negative colorful euphemism you use to describe some people based on their make up (something we all have no control over) and not come across as being so angry, you could be the best poster on this thread in terms of proving info. You are right in thinking you are fighting a loss cause, this board is loaded with people who are all about "sex at all cost". Post a pic (regardless of how the girl looks) and see how many PMs you get asking for contact info. They donít care about their behavior so your message is going to very in-effective and much less effective if you try to beat the message into their heads with a verbal/written ass-chewing.

Oh! In regards to some Falangs being obnoxious in approaching your GF, there is no excuse for it. I share your contempt for them but the Thais by their very open acceptance to what amounts to sell out/money first mentality coupled with this vast night life and easy going style contributes to this. Don't know how many times I have heard Thai girls say that Falangs think everything and everyone in Thailand is for sale. Itís the nature of the beast over here, we use to have a similar environment in Korea but they have clean that place up to the point where no one will think some of girls are available even when they are because of the environment. If the Thais want this place cleaned up they can do it, but I have to tell you I hope they do it about 50 years from now, I just love this place.

Retired Army
10-22-07, 16:48
positives: i love thai girls because:

1/ they speak quietly in a mellifluous and lilting tone
2/ they speak thai politely, and if they speak isaan or another dialect (passaa pak nua, for example), it sounds quite charming
3/ they dress nicely, and even if they dress sexily, they carry it off with grace and style
4/ they don't walk so much as float, gliding in a graceful measured gait
5/ they are somewhat shy and demure and wait for the man to make the move
6/ they are impeccable in their cleanliness, both in body and dress
7/ they know exactly how to behave in public, showing the correct defference for their elders, respect to their peers and kindness and consideration to those younger
8/ while they can be pyscho sometimes, it never goes beyond hysterics and histrionics and they can be easily calmed with the right words - knives seldom make an appearance :)
9/ while it is true, some can be mercenary, the money issue has a very different aura about it, than in p4p because it is merely about the support expected in a traditional patriarchy. if you understand the culture, you should understand this.
10/ imho, they generally look younger than their years, hold their age well and are more beautiful than girls in p4p. btw, contrary to popular belief on here, i don't think it has anything to do with skin color. there are beautiful, dark-skinned non-p4p girls, from the south especially, and ugly white-skinned hookers from chiang mai.



and the best reason of all: they aren't western women with the attitude that men owe them... and you can actually live very happily with a good thai woman. try that with a western woman.

Retired Army
10-22-07, 16:50
OTH,

I just love this place.

You don't know this place, you just think you do.

I generally agree with OTH who doesn't suffer fools easily. He, like me, is tired of all these self-professed Thai experts on this forum who think they know Thai culture and Thai women, when in fact they don't know know squat.

Animby
10-24-07, 16:30
While they can be pyscho sometimes, it never goes beyond hysterics and histrionics and they can be easily calmed with the right words - knives seldom make an appearance :)

No argument here. Though, your number 8 really applies to all women everywhere, IMHO. Did you know the word hysteria comes from the Greek hystera meaning uterus? (Think: hysterectomy.) It was originally defined as a neurotic condition peculiar to women and thought to be caused by a dysfunction of the uterus.

Histrionics, on the other hand, although it sounds like it might have the same base, actually comes from the Etruscan language and refers to acting.

Since I don't expect any great outcry from the multitude of women on this forum, I'll just say, yep. All women, everywhere...

Terry Terrier
10-25-07, 11:51
Terrier, your response to my post is just plainly stupid. Of course my English is not prefect, as I am not a native English speaker. You may want to re-read your mail, as itís not so hot either. I also did a quick check when did you last post to the Photo Gallery. Sorry, correct me here, I could not find any recent entries

JB, It's not your pigoen English that's funny, it's the fact that you use it on an English forum to take the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of someone else's education. That's just fucking hilarious :D.

And stop your damn prevarication about photos. My photos (which are in the 2004 and 2005 threads btw) are irrelevant to this discussion: I don't claim to shag better-looking women than the rest. You do. Let's see the proof.

Terry Terrier
10-25-07, 12:29
Where I used to live was near some beer bars. On several occasions, while simply walking home, my GF was accosted by these knucke-draggers, some who actually touched her. I was even with her in 7/11 one night near these bars and while I was at the back, some [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)-drunk Farang scumbag came up to her and started harrassing her and touching her, asking her, "How much". Although the area is actually a reasonably good area not far from Emporium, she begged me to move to somewhere safer. It's sad that it was dangerous for her, not because of some local danger, but because of Farang assholes who don't know how to behave properly and have a bad attitude about Thai women.

Whilst no civilised person would condone the mauling or harrassment of women out shopping ('good girls' or otherwise), you chose to live within walking distance of one of Thailand's most notorious sex districts. No doubt, despite your protestations to the contrary (yes, I remember your discussion with The Traveler), your thinking at the time was that you could have the best of both worlds.

The fact is, it is you who put yourself (and your unwitting girlfriend) into that situation. And, not for the first time on this forum, you look to blame everybody but yourself for your woes.

Old Thai Hand
10-26-07, 01:36
Whilst no civilised person would condone the mauling or harrassment of women out shopping ('good girls' or otherwise), you chose to live within walking distance of one of Thailand's most notorious sex districts. No doubt, despite your protestations to the contrary (yes, I remember your discussion with The Traveler), your thinking at the time was that you could have the best of both worlds.

The fact is, it is you who put yourself (and your unwitting girlfriend) into that situation. And, not for the first time on this forum, you look to blame everybody but yourself for your woes.

You really are a fucking simpleton, sometimes.

In fact, TT even if we had lived next to Soi Cowboy or Nana, (which we didn't) there's no excuse for some knuckle-dragger to assume that every Thai girl just walking down the street is fair game and worth a grope.

Using your stupid logic, if I had lived on soi 33 near Livingstone's and all those bars there, then it would be my fault. Or, if I had lived on soi 24 or 26 because they have several massage parlours, it would be my fault. This, despite the fact that both of these streets along with soi 33 are upmarket and have many fine residential areas. Where I lived before (soi 22) has very expensive hotels and condos, a very famous HiSo Thai elementary/highschool, whose students by the way are often harrassed as they walk to catch the skytrain. It just so happens to also have a beer bar area that one can't really avoid as one walks down the street. So, also, using your stupid logic, every girl who works in those hotels, condos and other businesses (travel agents, offices, even the teachers at the Thai school) are fair game, as well and deserve being harassed by drunken Farang low-lifes.

I have 2 students whose parents have houses at the end of Nana soi 4 who go through a gauntlet everytime they go home from school. Are their parents to blame for having the misfortune of having house in that neighbourhood? Both students told me that their homes were in the family long before Nana Plaza was ever built.

The blame lies squarely with the morons coming here for a cheap fuck who know nothing about the country or the culture and think everything here revolves around the sex industry and that every Thai girl is a hooker.

While in the past, we've always agreed to disagree, but in a light-hearted way, this time you've crossed the line into the nether-regions.

Your thinking proves that you're obviously one of the sub-species that seem to make up the majority of the mongers coming to Thailand these days.

Hopefully, you and your kind will stick to Pattaya, which I've come to the conclusion is a controlled environment created by the Thais to keep an eye on all the animals.

Retired Army
10-26-07, 03:48
...using your stupid logic, every girl who works in those hotels, condos and other businesses (travel agents, offices, even the teachers at the Thai school) are fair game, as well and deserve being harassed by drunken Farang low-lifes..

this is one of the biggest complaints good Thai girls have about farangs. The other is that they stink (Europeans mostly because of the bathing thing and some other nationalities because of the diet.)


I have 2 students whose parents have houses at the end of Nana soi 4 who go through a gauntlet everytime they go home from school. Are their parents to blame for having the misfortune of having house in that neighbourhood? Both students told me that their homes were in the family long before Nana Plaza was ever built..

Nothing wrong in living in those areas. I did because of the proximity to the Skytrain. Paid a premium for that luxury.



The blame lies squarely with the morons coming here for a cheap fuck who know nothing about the country or the culture and think everything here revolves around the sex industry and that every Thai girl is a hooker..


OTH nails it again!

NicFrenchy
10-26-07, 05:49
Hopefully, you and your kind will stick to Pattaya, which I've come to the conclusion is a controlled environment created by the Thais to keep an eye on all the animals.Excellent! that's what I always thought, Pattaya is a Zoo LOL

Jungle Bluebird
10-26-07, 07:19
Terrier, your comment clearly shows that you have no understanding about Thailand. Walking distance ..of a sex district..? LOL Where in Thailand you are not within walking distance.

On a funnier note, we recently hired a farang. He had quite some body odor. So the Thai employees having a good giggle. People sitting next to him even moved their positions. Same day my HR manager comes to me and prompts me how to solve this. I shrugged my shoulders, indicated thatís her job to address this and not mine.

So HR manager sends an email... 'Dear... the Thai staff is complaining about your body smell. May I recommend some hygienic products....'

Hey, situation fixed. The guy smells like roses now.

JB



...you chose to live within walking distance of one of Thailand's most notorious sex districts.

Cougar 2
10-26-07, 07:24
Look. I believe it comes down to common decency and respect for other human beings.

If you don't have it. Then I think you would be considered an arsehole no matter where you live or travel.

NicFrenchy
10-26-07, 07:30
Hey, situation fixed. The guy smells like roses now.

JBI'm not sure I care for "Roses" Scent, but it sure beats bad body odor LOL

It's funny because I had that same chat with some ladies in my office, they asked me why Farangs don't shower everyday?

I laughed and told them that most People I know (myself included) shower twice a day (Morning and Evening), sometimes more.

What amazes me is that Thais (I speak for the Males as they are the ones I see) while they take showers, have no problem wearing the same underwear or clothes several times before washing them.

Of course, when you confront a Thai girl with this, she gets defensive and tells you that her boyfriend does not do that LOL. Also, what shocks me is that 99% of my office employees do not wash their hands after munching on Fruits, or even after a Bathroom visit.

I guess there are clean and unclean persons in all ethnicities.

Terry Terrier
10-26-07, 10:29
You really are a fucking simpleton, sometimes.

In fact, TT even if we had lived next to Soi Cowboy or Nana, (which we didn't) there's no excuse for some knuckle-dragger to assume that every Thai girl just walking down the street is fair game and worth a grope.

Using your stupid logic, if I had lived on soi 33 near Livingstone's and all those bars there, then it would be my fault. Or, if I had lived on soi 24 or 26 because they have several massage parlours, it would be my fault. This, despite the fact that both of these streets along with soi 33 are upmarket and have many fine residential areas. Where I lived before (soi 22) has very expensive hotels and condos, a very famous HiSo Thai elementary/highschool, whose students by the way are often harrassed as they walk to catch the skytrain. It just so happens to also have a beer bar area that one can't really avoid as one walks down the street. So, also, using your stupid logic, every girl who works in those hotels, condos and other businesses (travel agents, offices, even the teachers at the Thai school) are fair game, as well and deserve being harassed by drunken Farang low-lifes.

I have 2 students whose parents have houses at the end of Nana soi 4 who go through a gauntlet everytime they go home from school. Are their parents to blame for having the misfortune of having house in that neighbourhood? Both students told me that their homes were in the family long before Nana Plaza was ever built.

The blame lies squarely with the morons coming here for a cheap fuck who know nothing about the country or the culture and think everything here revolves around the sex industry and that every Thai girl is a hooker.

While in the past, we've always agreed to disagree, but in a light-hearted way, this time you've crossed the line into the nether-regions.

Your thinking proves that you're obviously one of the sub-species that seem to make up the majority of the mongers coming to Thailand these days.

Hopefully, you and your kind will stick to Pattaya, which I've come to the conclusion is a controlled environment created by the Thais to keep an eye on all the animals.

So, OTH, renowned world class uni lecturer, arrives in Bangkok from his last posting on planet Mars. Not for him the idiocy of checking out various residential locations for their suitability. Oh, dear! he now lives near one of Thailand's (and the world's) most notorious tourist traps/sex districts. Still, why move? he's entitled to live where he wants. What good fortune on his part that he didn't pick an area notorious for gun crime: With his arrogance, it would be unlikely that he was here today to engage in his stupid fucking arguments :D.

OTH, as usual you are making a four course dinner out of a very simple snack. In all the various examples you gave, they would move to a nicer area once their current location went down the pan if they had any sense. That's what sensible people do, you know, old bean. And please calm down. You are taking this place too seriously again.

Jungle Bluebird reminds me of one of those expat bores who like to grip complete strangers in their local downtown Bangkok bar:

"You're new here, right? I work here in management.....blah, blah, blah..... (5 mins later) whole city's a giant fucking brothel. You know who owns Nana Plaza?.....drone, drone.....(another 10 mins later) local workers don't have a day's work between the lot of 'em.....waffle, waffle.....(another 5 mins later) fucking tourists get on my nerves. No offence meant burp.....skanks.....jungle bunnies......blah, drone, waffle....." Oh dear! Is that the time? Oh well, have to leave you to it. Appointment with the speaking clock, I'm afraid. (Phew! Lucky escape! Thank fuck I'm only in Thailand for vacations.)

Where is your proof of your superior-looking girls, you fucking windbag?

Old Thai Hand
10-26-07, 11:19
it's about respect and knowing how to behave properly. it's that simple, even on mars!!!!

i actually believe that any women, even a nana bg going home after work has a right to be free from molestation, if she doesn't invite it.

your thinking is simply skewed beyond belief. it's the same logic that blames a woman for her [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) because she walks down the street in sexy clothes.

the bottom line is any woman has the right to protection from unsolicited attention, regardless of where she is or what she is.

Terry Terrier
10-26-07, 12:15
it's about respect and knowing how to behave properly. it's that simple, even on mars!!!!

i actually believe that any women, even a nana bg going home after work has a right to be free from molestation, if she doesn't invite it.

oth, we are agreed 100% on this.


your thinking is simply skewed beyond belief. it's the same logic that blames a woman for her [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) because she walks down the street in sexy clothes.

nope. you either didn't understand my point or you are twisting my words. let me explain further: soi cowboy, nana plaza and patpong won't disappear next week or even next year (though there have been rumours about soi cowboy for a long time). thai locals will not move from these locations for entirely selfish reasons: they know that, particularly in the cases of nana and cowboy, their prime real estate and condos will become very much more prime once the local carbuncles and their associated public order problems are gone. but in doing so they are subjecting their wives and daughters to the thoroughly unpleasant things you describe. pure greed imo. likewise, you subjected you girlfriends to nightly gauntlet runs because your condo location suited you for whatever reasons. that in no way implies (as i have already stated in previous posts) that i approve of any type of woman being harrassed or, even worse, assaulted in the streets by lowlives. but these locales are what they are until the 'higher ups' decide to change things. why complain on a sexforum? said lowlives probably can't understand your prose anyway, and aren't going to change their ways even if they can understand it.


the bottom line is any woman has the right to protection from unsolicited attention, regardless of where she is or what she is.

yes, we are 100% agreed on this.

now, go and get yer blood pressure checked, ya daft old so-and-so. (this is the fight club, right?:d)

Freeler
10-26-07, 23:02
Terry,

OTH is a former Tne Nation writer. That kind of explains it all, don't it?

Old Thai Hand
10-27-07, 03:23
Terry,

OTH is a former Tne Nation writer. That kind of explains it all, don't it?

You only seem to pop in now and then to make pithy (and in this case) cryptic, but mostly worthless comments? What does this mean? Anything worthwhile to offer?

BTW, while I did work there, I was never a writer for The Nation.

Freeler
10-27-07, 20:33
OTH,

Thanks for adding some more info about yourself. That might just cum in handy, here in the FIGHT CLUB!

BTW, now I'm home more often, I might drop in more frequently:)