Bangkok Reports [Archive] - Page 107

Goatscrot

03-08-14, 04:25

At some point if Bangkok moves toward just " old fashion strip clubs with booze" (with less and less offsets)) of course they lose a lot of the sex tourist market but maybe they figure along with mindless spending Japanese, there will emerge an unlimited number of Chinese who will just descend on Bangkok no matter what. Geographics and economics are going to work in Bangkok's favor as China becomes the #1 superpower. now Bangkok is a good balance between a world class city and many (moderate pricing) P4P options yet with a practically 3rd world cost of living - and the question is how long can that last?I would say the scales have been tipping for quite a while, but since the floods in '10 things have gone nuts.

Costs have been rising considerably. Rents are still a bit bargain as there is a glut of condos and apts on the market, but still more expensive than all but the very major and the ultra-hip US cities. Cost to buy is another story. You really can't get a good rental return here.

If you want to eat Thai food, it is still dirt cheap, although many places are 50% more than when I moved here 14 years ago. Quality non-Thai food is just about the same as it is in the US if not more. Alcohol, well even the local crap beer is expensive compared to the US. When I visit the states I get a great six pack of craft beer for about 8 bucks.

Want to go to Smith, Grass, or some of the better restaurants? You will drop close to 2k easy, more if you have drinks. Craft beer? Up to 300 baht a bottle.

But, yes, it is a world class city and we have many more benefits than we did in '99 in that regard.

P4P- Back in 99 a drink in most gogos was 80 baht. Now in many 180. Price of gals is also 100% up, more when you consider the currency moves.

Night out with the boys including dinner, drinks at gogo, lady drinks, BF (400 in Cowboy then) , ST room (300) , and tip to gal (500-1k) was around 3k baht. At that time less than 75 USD. Could easily be double that now (dinner, drinks and lady drinks 180, BF 600, gal 2000 ST, room 350). If one was just going FL then you could have a drink or two, grab a Thermae girl and be done for about 1. 5k max. 37 USD. Try pulling a Thermae girl for 500 bath now, or a BG girl. Most of the old hags there are asking and some getting 1. 5k ST.

Also agree with you on the Chinese. There will be more and more of them and it will have a huge effect on prices in all areas. We will see two grades of working girls: very high end and very low end. The "in the middle girl" who worked jobs but did not make enough to make ends meet and would head out to FL a few nights a month are a quickly dying breed. They make enough to sustain themselves now. The "scene" is no longer of that much interest to me, but it is still great to get our for an oily a few times a month.

It is really amazing how resilient this nation is. Every time there is a crisis, yellow at the airport, the Songkhran Riots, the Red Shirt takeover, the flood, the and the recent PDRC nonsense, I always think it will cause real problem for the economy, yet it really doesn't. There might be a very short bump, but Thailand roars back stronger than ever. Methinks one of the reasons it that they always run at near full employment. Won't get into the reasons for that.

DRRonin

03-08-14, 04:26

I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?I don't know if anyone other than The Arab understands his business model. There were a handful of guys in Sahara but none of them were buying drinks for the Coyote girls and people have told me that his bars are usually close to empty. Yet Coyote girls are not cheap so how can he be making money one wonders. I doubt if it is a religious jihad of sorts unless the Ayatollah has given him orders to clean up sin city. Others have mentioned the possibility that he is using the bars to launder money but from what illegal activity nobody seems to say. It is all very strange. To some degree Crazy House is the gogo that offsets this. Great looking girls and ready to go out the door with you in a heartbeat (and often back from their duties in two heartbeats) and the place is packed every time I go so I assume they are making money. How they are able to get so many good looking girls while most of the go-gos struggle to have just a few is a mystery. I think they are paying higher salaries to the girls than the other bars are. So far whatever they are doing is working. Even when the "mob" was practically on their doorstep until this past week and guys had to walk through them to get to the short time hotel, the place was still doing great business. So the old model still works fine as long as you can find the girls but finding the right girls isn't easy anymore it seems.

Goatscrot

03-08-14, 04:28

After CH my friend and I walked down Soi Cowboy and were particularly enchanted by the Coyote girls outside of Sahara. I have avoided the Coyote bars in SC like a venereal disease but we figured what the heck, the girls are cute and it will only cost a beer. Which was 200 baht as it turned out. On the menu it states that the go-go girls can be bar fined for 800 baht. Not great but these girls were looking fine so I inquire from a service girl and then a mamasan about them. The service girl says the bf for Coyote girls is 7, 000 baht. I assume I have misheard her and ask again. 7,000 baht. No wait here it says 800 baht. She replies, that is for the go-go girls, not Coyote girls. Coyote girls are 7, 000 baht just for the barfine. At that point I didn't bother to ask how much they charged. I have to wonder if anyone has ever barfined one of these girls. Lady drinks were 230 baht. It turns out that they have a handful of go-go "girls" of which half of them were clearly lady boys and the females were not much better looking.

Coyote bars have pretty much taken over Soi Cowboy and are slowly making advances in Nana Plaza. Went to Wild Thing on the 3rd floor 2 nights ago. This used to be Tokyo Nights and before that Las Vegas. Now it is primarily a Coyote bar. For some strange reason it has never been popular even back when it was LV and had a bunch of good looking women. But I would say it has hit rock bottom now. One at a minimum expects Coyote girls to be somewhat attractive but most of these girls were awful, overweight and unpleasing to the eye. But from what I understand much cheaper than those in Sahara. 1,000 baht barfine and 2, 000 for the girl. Wild Thing also gets my vote for the worst music in any go-go and that is not an easy award to win. The dj seemed to feel it is necessary to overlay every song with the same bass beat that shook the room. I left with a headache. I often wonder, as a manager is it more important to make musical choices for the dancers or for the customers. The dancers seem to have won out because the vast majority of customers I see are 40+ and I could be wrong but blasting rap and hip-hop would likely not be their first choice. Erotica on the second floor is the only go-go I know of that still plays rock music. Unfortunately that is about the best thing going on in there. Coyote girls are also in Fantasia, Play Skool and tonight Mandarin upstairs introduced a small sampling of them. Mandarin upstairs will soon be re-opening the floor above and possibly introducing some nude dancing. The bf for the Coyotes is only 600 baht but the mamasan said they might not choose to go with customers. In Play Skool the Coyotes get 23, 000 baht in salary but have to bring in 150 drinks a month and 50 baht will be deducted for every drink less than that. Most go-go bars set a quota of around 60 drinks a month. So a fair amount of pressure is on Coyote girls to get customers to buy them drinks.

Between lady boys being in 7 bars I think it is now and Coyote girls slowly creeping in you have to wonder how long Nana Plaza will be a friendly place to visit and partake. It's not hard to see that this is the future and that within five years the go-go scene will be a very different place than it is today just as today is very different for the go-go scene from five years ago."Turn out the lights the party's over."

23k baht for a Coyote dancer? Unreal. And West is correct, with more and more Chinese and other Asians coming, it will continue to change, and not for the better.

Hiihii

03-08-14, 07:23

Western787

03-08-14, 10:21

"Turn out the lights the party's over."

The ballbusters will probably eventually turn Bangkok into Salt Lake City, Utah, but that will take time, but meanwhile one can analogize the situation to living in the Playboy Mansion but only AFTER Huge Heffner had to cut party expenses down a bit due to Playboy's financial difficulties a decade or two back.

Kerrstar

03-08-14, 10:59

I don't know if anyone other than The Arab understands his business model. There were a handful of guys in Sahara but none of them were buying drinks for the Coyote girls and people have told me that his bars are usually close to empty. Yet Coyote girls are not cheap so how can he be making money one wonders. I doubt if it is a religious jihad of sorts unless the Ayatollah has given him orders to clean up sin city. Others have mentioned the possibility that he is using the bars to launder money but from what illegal activity nobody seems to say. It is all very strange.I was told a while back that the Arab was buying up Soi Cowboy clubs because he wants to bulldoze the lot and build a condo or shopping mall. I imagine he would need to have some backers behind him. Not sure that he would ever succeed or that the rumour is true, it is Bangkok after all.

Member #4387

03-08-14, 11:13

The ballbusters will probably eventually turn Bangkok into Salt Lake City, Utah, but that will take time, but meanwhile one can analogize the situation to living in the Playboy Mansion but only AFTER Huge Heffner had to cut party expenses down a bit due to Playboy's financial difficulties a decade or two back.Hehe Salt Lake City (slc) brings back great memories from the winter olympics in 2002. Not the easiest place on earth to score pussy but I believe this rare (and good) event had brought in some easy girls into a rather mormonic environment. No wonder I got some evil eyes balling from locals (maby they were just envious). Rather OT but still worth mentioning.

Western787

03-08-14, 13:00

"The things you take for granted, someone else is praying for." Grace Pamer.

Just focusing on one aspect of the wider P4P scene in Bangkok, lets assume an average guy in New York City was magically able to be transported to the Huay Hwang subway stop in Ratchada, and when he walks up the stairs into the early evening darkness and he first sees the Enter the Night type neon signs and then walks to the Soapy palaces where 100's of girls await him, the experience is so extreme, so intense, and so out of this world, one might compare it to a real life version of the fictional (Back to the Future 2) Marty McFly's visit to the Hill Valley 30 years into the future.

Even when one describes Ratchada to someone in the west who has never traveled to southeast Asia, they often find it very difficult to believe.

One must never get too complacent about Bangkok.

El Flaco

03-08-14, 13:21

"Turn out the lights the party's over."

23k baht for a Coyote dancer? Unreal. And West is correct, with more and more Chinese and other Asians coming, it will continue to change, and not for the better.Monthly salary and with mandatory sales targets. It seem reasonable, e. G. A cook can make 20K with overtime in Pattaya. Here the girls wages are posted outside many gogo bars.

El Flaco

03-08-14, 13:24

Also agree with you on the Chinese. There will be more and more of them and it will have a huge effect on prices in all areas. We will see two grades of working girls: very high end and very low end. The "in the middle girl" who worked jobs but did not make enough to make ends meet and would head out to FL a few nights a month are a quickly dying breed. They make enough to sustain themselves now. The "scene" is no longer of that much interest to me, but it is still great to get our for an oily a few times a month.

It is really amazing how resilient this nation is. Every time there is a crisis, yellow at the airport, the Songkhran Riots, the Red Shirt takeover, the flood, the and the recent PDRC nonsense, I always think it will cause real problem for the economy, yet it really doesn't. There might be a very short bump, but Thailand roars back stronger than ever. Methinks one of the reasons it that they always run at near full employment. Won't get into the reasons for that.Fully agree. Who sees differently should get new glasses.

Syzygies

03-08-14, 15:24

Fully agree. Who sees differently should get new glasses.Angie at Cherry massage was a gorgeous girl who previously worked a regular job. She probably hasn't t lasted as not really suited to a porn style shop. Bai Fern at Yorimichi previously had a regular job and did not last at Yorimichi. Also had uni studies.

There still exist girls trying out being a hooker but not always suited to it.

I do agree we are seeing much less part time hookers retaining their normal job than 15 years ago, however still an option to freelance for extra cash.

Syzygies

03-08-14, 15:56

Western787

03-08-14, 23:33

Angie at Cherry massage was a gorgeous girl who previously worked a regular job. She probably hasn't t lasted as not really suited to a porn style shop. Bai Fern at Yorimichi previously had a regular job and did not last at Yorimichi. Also had uni studies.

There still exist girls trying out being a hooker but not always suited to it.

I do agree we are seeing much less part time hookers retaining their normal job than 15 years ago, however still an option to freelance for extra cash.How do you know she's completely out of the business?

Its no secret in Bangkok that gorgeous looking girls who try out the business are routinely being picked off by wealthy players or guys just dumping cash, and this goes across different venues with the owners themselves voicing this same complaint. Yes, it could be a same age range legit boyfriend who shows up, but IMHO once these girls taste the big money I doubt many just return to normal jobs.

Hiihii

03-09-14, 01:41

What am I missing. I hardly notice any change in 10 years. Mp prices same same. Agogo 10 years ago bf 600 today its still 600. 50 baht increase in hotel, big whoop. Girls still accept 2k short time. Agogo girls bad value 10 years ago and are still bad value today. LOL.The bread and butter of the industry has not changed at all. Agogo girls still prance on stage in bikinis or nothing-same as 10 years ago. MPs operate the same. Not much innovation in the streetwalker mode of operation.

Communications have improved but thais not particular to prostitutes.

CH is the best 2nd tier bar is what DR R meant to say.

1. Their nudes are way better than their non-nude- an anomoly.

2. CH nudes are stunners compared to those found at Spunkies, Susie Wings, and Dollhouse.

3. CH may be number 1 as far as value goes. Ogling costs only 90 baht.

Goatscrot

03-09-14, 03:53

How do you know she's completely out of the business?

Its no secret in Bangkok that gorgeous looking girls who try out the business are routinely being picked off by wealthy players or guys just dumping cash, and this goes across different venues with the owners themselves voicing this same complaint. Yes, it could be a same age range legit boyfriend who shows up, but IMHO once these girls taste the big money I doubt many just return to normal jobs.For the most part I agree with you. Once they get a load of that money, it is intoxicating. I have met some that realize they can't do it forever and have traded the big money for something a bit more secure, but they are in the minority. Nothing sadder than an old P4P gal.

Western787

03-09-14, 04:25

. Nothing sadder than an old P4P gal.True, but some of those Beer Garden regs don't seem to do all that bad.

Mr Enternational

03-09-14, 06:13

True, but some of those Beer Garden regs don't seem to do all that bad.Somebody's paying them, or else they would not be there.

Goatscrot

03-09-14, 07:34

Somebody's paying them, or else they would not be there.Don't know what's more depressing, the regular gals or the regular clientele. Gotten to be a club I don't want to be a member of. Old alcoholics abound.

Western787

03-09-14, 08:47

Somebody's paying them, or else they would not be there.Some (lets guess 50%) may not have many choices. They often have almost zero NPL type street appeal, or are too old for Thermae, and not hot enough to even work in regular bars. Not sure if some even get customers more than once a week. Now that said, there are many exceptions, a range girls in fact and some, do seem to do pretty well.

While lot of regs are avg to below avg and mostly 30 plus, some are sort of hot, example "Mo" tall and slender and pretty , and an exotic looking mix of perhaps Chinese and Thai, guessing low 30s, and she sits on the extreme left side three fourths of the way down.

Then random hotties even as young early 20's (not regs per se) sometimes drop by, and Beer Garden which goes all day permits them to get an early evening customer instead of waiting around until Thermae gets going. I've seen some fairly hot girls just rotate between Thermae, Beer Garden and NPL, but many like Moe I don't think want to go on the streets or have Japanese guys inspecting them like side of beef.. And of course Gulliver's has priced itself out the market with the same 8 or 9 regs hanging out over there all the time, a few very hot, but seem to mostly play pool and get few customers.

Then at BG you also get the average to slightly hot girls dropping by after their real jobs. Usually you think they are with their friends, but 90% of the time they are alone just trying to pick up some extra dollars, and some aren't bad either.

Western787

03-09-14, 14:30

For the most part I agree with you. Once they get a load of that money, it is intoxicating. I have met some that realize they can't do it forever and have traded the big money for something a bit more secure, but they are in the minority. Nothing sadder than an old P4P gal.The G club girls typically make a base around 1500 bahts per shift, and the Coyote Go Go's about 900, and regular Go Gos approx 600. Plus more on lady drinks (minus any quota related penalities) but when you add it all up .its not going to allow them to live the high life. So it must be very intoxicating when a hottie realizes she can make 8 to 10 times that in a month, and she can now go into Terminal 21 and spend like she's a Hi So. The Coyote working Fantasia I mentioned a number of weeks back went from a "no barfine" girl to the most over the top "please please take me" girl in a matter of 2 to 3 weeks, and this girl is hot enough to easily make 100k to 200k a month, long long legs and very very sexy dancing style, basically G club level.

Syzygies

03-09-14, 16:52

CH is the best 2nd tier bar is what DR R meant to say.

1. Their nudes are way better than their non-nude- an anomoly.

2. CH nudes are stunners compared to those found at Spunkies, Susie wings, and Dollhouse.

3. Ch may be number 1 as far as value goes. Ogling costs only 90 baht.The non-nude dancers, either have scars, stretch marks etc. To hide or not good tits, etc. The pussy is still on display so that means there is something else needs hiding.

The girls are paid a higher salary. This helps attract better looking girls. Some are selling a lot of drinks.

Value it is. Best place for a look. Not necessarily best place to BF a girl. Some have very bad personalities, e. G. #94 and #91.

I BFed 2 girls. One a newbie who was quite okay for a newbie and improving, and another with big tits, who was barely a pass on the bed. Just fuckable.

My advice, is go for a look, but most likely screw a girl from elsewhere, unless manage to find one of the sweeter girls (not many).

Hiihii

03-09-14, 17:04

Member #4387

03-09-14, 17:13

The G club girls typically make a base around 1500 bahts per shift, and the Coyote Go Go's about 900, and regular Go Gos approx 600. Plus more on lady drinks (minus any quota related penalities) but when you add it all up .its not going to allow them to live the high life. So it must be very intoxicating when a hottie realizes she can make 8 to 10 times that in a month, and she can now go into Terminal 21 and spend like she's a Hi So. The Coyote working Fantasia I mentioned a number of weeks back went from a "no barfine" girl to the most over the top "please please take me" girl in a matter of 2 to 3 weeks, and this girl is hot enough to easily make 100k to 200k a month, long long legs and very very sexy dancing style, basically G club level.A couple of months back I was visiting G Club "Pimp" and picked up a girl willing to join me for some fun towards the clubs closing time. She was pretty consistent she made 2k per shift as her base salary. Maby the pimp girls have salary according to how good they are in making customers spend top dollars? She stated she normaly earned around 3K (incl tip and drinks) and did from 10 to 20 shifts per month. As there for sure are many beauties in this location bare in mind they have no preassure from the managment to go with customers whatsoever. It is up to them girls if they want or not and for those interested in pricenegotiations upfront I am sure you can do that but probably not a good sign starting to haggle for 3 or 4K bhat compensation if you spend like 10. 20k in the club. In my case there was no such thing but ofcourse she got her compensation / gift the morning after (don't remember if it was 3, 4 or 5k I gave her but for good LT play I never go below 3).

Bunky

03-09-14, 18:39

Have been hitting a few go-gos the past few nights.Superb report!

Thanks much for taking the time to post.

Bunky

Syzygies

03-09-14, 19:42

Paul Kausch

03-09-14, 21:34

The Arabs bars still have hookers but just not all of the girls. I don't see evidence of getting rid of prostitution.

I heard the bars don't have to make money as used for laundering. This came from someone quite senior working in cowboy for many years, like a bar manager. We did not discuss the Arab's other business. I think the story makes sense even if we can't be sure it's true, but certainly looks like many of his bars are not busy. Cowboy 2 maybe doing better than some of the others.I've also heard rumors about money laundering. Could be true. Could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

Did you notice today's Stuckman Weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. Or should we start calling them coyote bars? Part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. I would hardly describe that as saving the business. That would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. Are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? In December my hotel room looked down on NEP. It did not look very busy, even on Fridays and Saturdays. If this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?

Hiihii

03-10-14, 00:40

Der Auslander

03-10-14, 01:00

i've also heard rumors about money laundering. could be true. could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

did you notice today's stuckman weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. or should we start calling them coyote bars? part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. i would hardly describe that as saving the business. that would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? in december my hotel room looked down on nep. it did not look very busy, even on fridays and saturdays. if this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?stickman in my opinion has a strange and confused agenda. very often he is somewhat rep001hing and scornful with regard to the guys who visit thailand for a vacation which includes intimate fraternization with the local females (stickman refers to these mongers as "naughty boys"). he often gives the impression that he would prefer if thailand were free of these unwanted vacationers and that thailand would be a far better place without such seedy fellows.

perhaps he has a point but one wonders who actually makes up the readership demographic of his blog / website. judging from the girly photos and call girl adverts which adorn his site, it seems to me that it is the very same naughty boys (like myself) that make up the bulk of his readership. the holier than thou attitude which in my opinion stickman projects with regard to those mongers that visit thailand certainly seems to color his opinion with regard to gogo bars and the influx of agency girls (coyotes) that are now sadly becoming an all too regular feature of the scene in bangkok and elsewhere.

sure he is correct that the general thai population is becoming a little more wealthy generally speaking and that women (from the poorer parts of the country) now have some more options in life other than earning their living with their legs spread and that is indeed a good thing. however, if with prices continuously rising and with a lack of good quality girls entering the industry, it seems to me that it is only a matter of time before thailand becomes a far less popular place for guys to visit. i believe that this is already beginning to happen. what with political instability and rising prices, thailand is becoming a far less attractive place for everyone (including mongers) to visit. i notice that stickman is preparing (yet again) to leave thailand. i for one will not be sad to see him go. hopefully this will also mean an end to his hypocritical blog which appears to condemn the same individuals that regularly read said website and consequently put money in his pocket.

congratulations on 1000+ posts by the way.

Syzygies

03-10-14, 03:05

Marky1

03-10-14, 05:53

Western787

03-10-14, 06:06

You losing me again. I've noticed the hot girls rarely do the take me take me thing. They usually just wait till they are called-sexy dancing not required.

I wonder what you see as hot. Can you give more example of R4 girls you think is hot.

The money is definately intoxicating but the girl does have to deal with being a sex object. Not many girls have this skill set over a long period of time. Burn out or just getting old is not easy to handle.I'm losing you? LOL. The "you take me?" girls either in R4 or elsewhere may skip certain customers, maybe they sense customers that have difficult personalities, somebody who is a real downer. These girls have a 6th sense. It can also depend on how many customers are in there, or perhaps the guy has a rep in the club as taking girls to amazingly bottom barrel cheap hotels, and the girl doesn't want to be further depressed by going to a dump. Anytime I have gotten the late night walk up and say "you take me?" true its not the hottest girls per se, but they can be cute. However my experience in Fantasia in regard to the "Coyote" is exactly as described it. Now there were hardly anyone in the club, but yes the girl was begging to be taken, almost in a frenetic way, perhaps she had a debt, who knows. But she obviously needed some major bucks, Now of course if you just handed her 3k for nothing, she'd be happy, so no one is claiming its about the sex.

These girls generally do not want to be treated like hookers. Posters like "Sir Lancelot" (one of his reports i see now on posts of distinction) seem to have a positive attitude and treat girls well, and probably put out good vibes and the girls respond to that. If someone is always having negative club experiences and instincitively tagging all the girls (minus a few alleged Superstars") as ugly or below standard, it becomes self reinforcing as the girls pick up the vibe.

While it is true some hotties don't last, and the extreme over the top drop dead gorgeous ones often get picked off, anyone can dump money on them near term OTC to get their attention, and for some customers this can even continue after they quit.

Rainbow 4 did get hit hard by a busted high season like other clubs, but there are hot girls there. 007 is hot, #132 the newer one is fairly hot and and previous #132 though only there for less than a month in late Nov and early December, ( 19 years old slender, tall, dirty blonde hair swept back in a ponytail. Delicate facial features, amazing DFK type, though otherwise very shy, but just couldn't handle the business) The way YOU define R4 is - a couple of "superstars" and then a bunch of subparl girls, That's not very accurate. By your own definition "the market determines Superstars" but if that is true then the previously mentioned #15 is a superstar because (except for a lull period) has generally had very high barfine rates. Also a dancer who doesn't get many barfines but nonethelss is hot, is on the extreme right side, very end, slender, tall 170 cm at least. long legs, nice ass, very light skin brunnette with almost a western look, although appears stuck up (nose in the air sort of) , if she glanced down more a potential customers. she get more barfines.. Another very hot girl on the left side, very very cute, shorter 155 cm?, wears her hair (light brn) in a bun often times, great figure, great figure, nice ass and nice tits, some TATS, very outgoing, very pretty face always talking to everyone.

Hiihii

03-10-14, 07:51

I'm losing you? LOL. The "you take me?" girls either in R4 or elsewhere may skip certain customers, maybe they sense customers that have difficult personalities, somebody who is a real downer. These girls have a 6th sense. It can also depend on how many customers are in there, or perhaps the guy has a rep in the club as taking girls to amazingly bottom barrel cheap hotels, and the girl doesn't want to be further depressed by going to a dump. Anytime I have gotten the late night walk up and say "you take me?" true its not the hottest girls per se, but they can be cute. However my experience in Fantasia in regard to the "Coyote" is exactly as described it. Now there were hardly anyone in the club, but yes the girl was begging to be taken, almost in a frenetic way, perhaps she had a debt, who knows. But she obviously needed some major bucks, Now of course if you just handed her 3k for nothing, she'd be happy, so no one is claiming its about the sex.

These girls generally do not want to be treated like hookers. Posters like "Sir Lancelot" (one of his reports I see now on posts of distinction) seem to have a positive attitude and treat girls well, and probably put out good vibes and the girls respond to that. If someone is always having negative club experiences and instincitively tagging all the girls (minus a few alleged Superstars") as ugly or below standard, it becomes self reinforcing as the girls pick up the vibe.

While it is true some hotties don't last, and the extreme over the top drop dead gorgeous ones often get picked off, anyone can dump money on them near term OTC to get their attention, and for some customers this can even continue after they quit.

Rainbow 4 did get hit hard by a busted high season like other clubs, but there are hot girls there. 007 is hot, #132 the newer one is fairly hot and and previous #132 though only there for less than a month in late Nov and early December, (19 years old slender, tall, dirty blonde hair swept back in a ponytail. Delicate facial features, amazing DFK type, though otherwise very shy, but just couldn't handle the business) The way YOU define R4 is. A couple of "superstars" and then a bunch of subparl girls, That's not very accurate. By your own definition "the market determines Superstars" but if that is true then the previously mentioned #15 is a superstar because (except for a lull period) has generally had very high barfine rates. Also a dancer who doesn't get many barfines but nonethelss is hot, is on the extreme right side, very end, slender, tall 170 cm at least. Long legs, nice ass, very light skin brunnette with almost a western look, although appears stuck up (nose in the air sort of) , if she glanced down more a potential customers. She get more barfines. Another very hot girl on the left side, very very cute, shorter 155 cm, wears her hair (light brn) in a bun often times, great figure, great figure, nice ass and nice tits, some TATS, very outgoing, very pretty face always talking to everyone.My analysis of Rainbow 4. MegasupeRstar number 4 and the rest. The rest including a few pretty face while the majority are not. All equallly not all that desireable-atleast not 100$ worth of desireable.ness.

Something I notice recently is all kinds of girls getting barfined. Meaning-just a lot of plain nois, nits, and nats strutting their stuff.

R2 AND R1 has better faces than R4.

Friar Tuck

03-10-14, 08:52

Guys!

Just back from 2 weeks in BKK, my first solo escapade for a few years. Dumped the long termer due to high maintenance costs.

Spent most nights at Cowboy due to the superior looking ladies and better vibe than Nana. Quite surprised and pleased with the full nude dancing, and that they remain nude when visiting my table. But really, do the chubbies have to be nude?

What is up with the drink prices at SC? Are you freakin' kidding me, LD's 200baht and 155ish for my own! That is theft by any standard. Many of the ladies made quite sure I knew the price of a LD, even after I had offered it, obviously had some unhappy dudes when the bill was presented.

Why am I not surprised that many bars are empty, you need talent to open wallets at those prices.

Barfines seem a little higher but ST, LT has not moved. Their opening gambit has moved up but they seem easy to negotiate down to the 1. 5 to 2. 5 range. Performance in the room was good to excellent with only one non performer over the 2 week period. Everything I wanted was on the table, never enquired re A levels.

Regarding regular massage places, business is way down and staff are unusually aggressive, demanding extras. The little sub soi opposite Fortuna Hotel in soi5 is chocka full of massage shops now. My usual haunt down there is a place called Baan Thai. They have lost their best staff to Korea where they are earning 60k a month without offering extras. The boss was suicidal. Across the lane is another shop with a blue uniform, was enticed in there by a big titted wench. Realised the game when no change of clothes was required and no towel offered. She kept letting her hair brush across the cluster and then the occasional tongue running down the underside of the shaft. Naturally I was keen for some relief. 2.5 for CBJ was her response! After I stopped laughing, we agreed on 1k BBBJTC. No come in mouth she said, ok I go I said, ok cim. For some reason I had a huge load which I duly delivered, to her credit she did a very good job and carried on during delivery, she then flew to the bathroom, quite funny too watch. She laughed about it later and wanted to come to my room after work, had to politely decline due to the size of her rump and thighs.

Must credit the Hilary chain of bars for many enjoyable afternoons playing pool to some good sounds and company.

Off to the delights of AC on my next trip mid year, be interesting to compare.

Tuck

Western787

03-10-14, 09:38

I've also heard rumors about money laundering. Could be true. Could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

Did you notice today's Stuckman Weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. Or should we start calling them coyote bars? Part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. I would hardly describe that as saving the business. That would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. Are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? In December my hotel room looked down on NEP. It did not look very busy, even on Fridays and Saturdays. If this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?This may be one time people may want to thank the overpayers, high rollers, reckless spenders, or just horny bastards carrying a lot of cash and willing to toss it away, because THOSE will be the guys that (initially) help Coyotes transition into working girl status by paying them 5k plus to entice them. As said before, once they get a taste of the big money, few will go back. Now I am not sure what percentage of girls will make the jump, but I believe it will be many. But many will do it in stealth form to keep up the pretense of just being Coyotes to keep face, and then probably add part time working girl work elsewhere.

You might for example be be seeing some future Thermae girls among these new Coyotes.

By the way sometimes Stickman really nails it. This from his Nov 10, 2013 column "If you fancy any of the coyote girls who congregate outside The Arab's bars in Soi Cowboy acting as hello girls, but don't care to go inside due to the cost of drinks (standard drinks are now 200 baht in The Arab bars) and reports of overzeallous security staff, then you may have another option. Strong rumours have it that there will be a flock of girls who once worked for The Arab soon to be found in Nana Plaza as at least one agency reports some girls are refusing to work for The Arab. The same agency has been contacted by a bar group in Nana so put one and one together."

Sure enough not many weeks later you started to see crowds (25 to 30 plus girls) mostly leggy 18 and 19 and 20 year olds or so half way up the Nana Parking Lot late at night (usually 1/2 hour after closing) waiting in line for the agency woman to give them their shift pay (it actually looked like chickens being fed as they were cackling so much). So they definitely need the bahts, that's for certain.

Western787

03-10-14, 10:15

Guys!

J.

Regarding regular massage places, business is way down and staff are unusually aggressive, demanding extras. The little sub soi opposite Fortuna Hotel in soi5 is chocka full of massage shops now.

Must credit the Hilary chain of bars for many enjoyable afternoons playing pool to some good sounds and company.

Off to the delights of AC on my next trip mid year, be interesting to compare.

TuckSame at Soil 11 in regard to massage shops.

Entering from Soi 11 (the only entrance in fact) into Villa Market, then leaving the store via the regular exit, you will usually be accosted by dozens of massage girls, some very sleazy, but some quite cute, since the (mandatory and only) exit requires you to run past either 6 plus shops east bound (toward Soil 13) OR the normal way, back to Soi 11 and 6 more shops west bound. Minus a couple of LB's I think in total approx 50 to 60 girls work just in those very small shops, and they get to give their best sales pitch to every Farang that happens to shop at Villa Market..

There is no escape and they all know you probably just overpaid at Villa for your favorite Farang food and therefore have cash.

As for HIllary Clubs, Hillary 3 and Hillary 1 in Nana are fantastic. Other two clubs OK too.

Hiihii

03-10-14, 11:03

Same at Soil 11 in regard to massage shops.

Entering the only entrance from Soi 11 into Villa Market, then leaving the store. You will usually be accosted by dozens of massage girls, some very sleazy, but some quite cute, since the (mandatory and only) exit requires you to run past either 6 plus shops east bound (toward Soil 13) OR the normal way, back to Soil 11 and 6 more shops west bound. Minus a couple of LB's I think approx 50 ti 80 women work just in those shops, and they get to give their best sales pitch to Farangs just picking up groceries.

There is no escape and they all know you probably just overpaid at Villa for your Farang food.

As for HIllary Clubs, Hillary 3 and Hillary 1 in Nana are fantasticI wish some of these girls were cute! I think due to looks these wimmin are targeting arabs, pakis and indians.

Western787

03-10-14, 12:20

Meant to say Hillary 4 and Hillary 1

Hiihii

03-10-14, 17:26

So I spotted 132atR4. Very ok face. Very thin. Out of, I'm guessing, over 1, 000 girls spread out at Bacc, R2, 1, and 4 Mr W points out the two thinnest girls of all. LOL. Borderline anorexic type bodies.

Western787

03-11-14, 01:33

Hiihii

03-11-14, 01:36

Goatscrot

03-11-14, 02:18

While Stickman is certainly an expert on Bangkok, and while I enjoy reading Stickman's columns and he often times "nails it" as I mentioned below on his predictions, among other things I have to disagree him calling Beergarden a "House of Horrors" as he did Nov 17th. 2013 column. You can sometimes find reasonably decent girls in Beer Garden if you go random days, and different times of the day. Its just not accurate to label it a House of Horrors.I would agree with Stick on this one, and it is not only the old hags; it is the old alcoholics that hang out there that add to the horror. I have been hitting the BG for over 14 years. It used to be fantastic, but has been going downhill for years. The steepest decline came after the floods. Even my friends who were hardcore BG guys rarely find decent gals in there anymore. Granted, every once in awhile an ok looking gal walks in, but lookers don't become regulars there. But it requires lots of time waiting for that one.

Der Auslander

03-11-14, 02:23

Stickman hopes to see the bar industry die since he can no longer participate in it. He can barely hide his glee whenever something negative happens in the industry.Well said! Completely agree with this comment.

Western787

03-11-14, 02:42

I wish some of these girls were cute! I think due to looks these wimmin are targeting arabs, pakis and indians.If one doesn't at least occasionally get attacked by a genuine cutie after for example exiting Villa Market on Soi 11, then they are doing something wrong. Maybe they hide in the shops with some guys? Not sure.

Western787

03-11-14, 03:08

I would agree with Stick on this one, and it is not only the old hags; it is the old alcoholics that hang out there that add to the horror. I have been hitting the BG for over 14 years. It used to be fantastic, but has been going downhill for years. The steepest decline came after the floods. Even my friends who were hardcore BG guys rarely find decent gals in there anymore. Granted, every once in awhile an ok looking gal walks in, but lookers don't become regulars there. But it requires lots of time waiting for that one.Ok lets assume Bangkok monger wise has been going downhill for a long time, and in fact few dispute that, but one has to also admit it also started at the top of a very high hill. Second, look around the world, practically every monger destination is getting hit either by the ballbusters and/or NGO's along with their hype up "trafficking' claims" pressuring govt and LE / or just huge price increases. Just a few examples 1. southern China. Donnguuan now a huge LE crackdown 2. Sosua, Dominican Republic, crackdowns combined with business interests who prefer cruise ship tourists over mongers. 3. Angeles City. hard core 3rd world, and aside from various crackdowns, top end girls in venues like Club Atlantis now don't even want to deal with Farangs anymore, preferring Koreans and Japanese. 4. Notable prices and living cost increases in a number of areas. Brazil a few years back and now Burma, which also has the NGO's all over the place. 5. Macau still OK but is always expensive, with, air quality so bad it makes Bangkok look pristine, and not practical given high living costs to either live there or make frequent visits 6. Cambodia has potential over time but infrastructure still poor and prices no longer rock bottom..

Looking around the globe, the trend is not that good.

The point is in that larger context Beergarden in relative terms is still a pretty good place.

It is true, its hard to find hotties unless you hit it the right time, and that can take a lot of visits, and its not like NPL which is free to walk by, so you got to buy a drink each time you visit..

I will take your word for it, but what do you see as the connection between The Floods and Beergarden (among other places) going further down hill?

Syzygies

03-11-14, 03:32

The point is in that larger context Beergarden in relative terms is still a pretty good place.

It is true, its hard to find hotties unless you hit it the right time, and that can take a lot of visits, and its not like NPL which is free to walk by, so you got to buy a drink each time you visit.You need to know the right times to find a better looker or have patience to hang around.

I have been there several times over the years and was completely underwhelmed by the looks of the girls. Perhaps there may have been the odd one I would consider but those were usually already sitting with some guy, and I don't have the patience to wait and not interested to chat to others that are there.

Suits those guys less fussy about the looks and looking more to the service and price, and who enjoy the social situation, or guys that go in groups.

I could understand would be better for guys that are regulars there and already know some of the better girls.

At Suzie Wong bar I am known by several girls and they will obviously come to me when available. It costs me to buy them drinks but I don't care. Having 2 or 3 semi naked girls to play with is good for me and usually take at lest 2 girls to a room for further sex play. I can understand that BG would be cheaper but I struggle to find appealing girls there and I much prefer to see their asses naked first.

So I think in the end the choice of venues comes down to individual priorities and likes, and what style you are used to.

FreebieFan

03-11-14, 03:45

You need to know the right times to find a better looker or have patience to hang around.

I have been there several times over the years and was completely underwhelmed by the looks of the girls. Perhaps there may have been the odd one I would consider but those were usually already sitting with some guy, and I don't have the patience to wait and not interested to chat to others that are there.

Suits those guys less fussy about the looks and looking more to the service and price, and who enjoy the social situation, or guys that go in groups.I've been many times and as always, had a variety of experiences. There are the hardened girls, the party girls, the regular girls who are there every day, and then some girls that happily sit alone and they have been my best.

Usually from out of BKK looking either for a good night or to make some extra money.

For sure there are, and never will be Miss Worlds there (especially as some of the guys look like human detritus) , but there are good times to be had, more so than sexy times.

One girl I once talked to, late 20s early 30s and left with, was happy that I fed her, had drinks with her and provided her with a nice cool bed. She wouldn't take any money. Nice experiences can be found there, if you are happy and relaxed. If in a hurry to get laid with a superstar, its not going to happen.

Western787

03-11-14, 04:59

I have been there several times over the years and was completely underwhelmed by the looks of the girls.Several times? What like 3 or 4 times "over the years"? No wonder you've run across few if any attractive girls.

Allover

03-11-14, 05:52

Stickman hopes to see the bar industry die since he can no longer participate in it. He can barely hide his glee whenever something negative happens in the industry.Why can't Stickman participate in the bar industry? Did something happen? I don't know much about him but I enjoy reading his column. I don't get too worked up about his opinions. It's just one man's point of view.

Western787

03-11-14, 07:31

Why can't Stickman participate in the bar industry? Did something happen? I don't know much about him but I enjoy reading his column. I don't get too worked up about his opinions. It's just one man's point of view.I personally think its a fantastic column.

His column overall is excellent (way better than the reader submissions for example) but he has to 1. Support his advertisers and therefore twist stories a bit sometimes (sort of like "poetic license" for writers).2. Plus he is married so he can't barfine, stare at Go Go dancers each evening, hang at Nana Parking Lot, drop by sleazy massage parlours, shoot pool for hours with hookers, check out Soapy inventories, you know things many Farangs just do in an average day

And his column being very lengthy means just the sheer volume of topics, discussions, and comments, means he's going to say some things that people notice are not technically correct. For example recently stating flat out the G clubs girls "go" (OTC). Its more nuanced and he knows that but I guess he can't hedge everything.

Goatscrot

03-11-14, 08:22

Stickman hopes to see the bar industry die since he can no longer participate in it. He can barely hide his glee whenever something negative happens in the industry.I actually know him and have for over a decade. What you stated is not true.

Goatscrot

03-11-14, 08:23

2. Plus he is marriedLot of misinformation out there about Stick.

Goatscrot

03-11-14, 08:34

Ok lets assume Bangkok monger wise has been going downhill for a long time, and in fact few dispute that, but one has to also admit it also started at the top of a very high hill. Second, look around the world, practically every monger destination is getting hit either by the ballbusters and / or NGO's along with their hype up "trafficking' claims" pressuring govt and LE / or just huge price increases. Just a few examples 1. Southern China. Donnguuan now a huge LE crackdown 2. Sosua, Dominican Republic, crackdowns combined with business interests who prefer cruise ship tourists over mongers. 3. Angeles City. Hard core 3rd world, and aside from various crackdowns, top end girls in venues like Club Atlantis now don't even want to deal with Farangs anymore, preferring Koreans and Japanese. 4. Notable prices and living cost increases in a number of areas. Brazil a few years back and now Burma, which also has the NGO's all over the place. 5. Macau still OK but is always expensive, with, air quality so bad it makes Bangkok look pristine, and not practical given high living costs to either live there or make frequent visits 6. Cambodia has potential over time but infrastructure still poor and prices no longer rock bottom.

Looking around the globe, the trend is not that good.

The point is in that larger context Beergarden in relative terms is still a pretty good place.

It is true, its hard to find hotties unless you hit it the right time, and that can take a lot of visits, and its not like NPL which is free to walk by, so you got to buy a drink each time you visit.

I will take your word for it, but what do you see as the connection between The Floods and Beergarden (among other places) going further down hill?One of the things I find most amazing about Thailand is its resiliency. With each and every set back, SARS, the tsunami, the Songkhran Riots, the Yellows taking the airport, the Reds the center of the city, the floods, an open rebellion in the South, world economic turmoil in 08, and now the PDRC, Thailand seems to not roll over and die, but come back stronger each time.

One would think that each one of the events would increase the number of gal in the "scene," but in fact numbers and quality have dropped after each event. Of course it is not really the event but the general development of the country.

The flood however was interesting. Many of the gals stopped coming to work FL as they could not get to central BKK. The BG was very sparse during those couple of months. Many of the gals just never returned, perhaps finding other employment.

Western787

03-11-14, 08:35

Lot of misinformation out there about Stick. Oh Ok, he WAS married then and many other times inferred he cannot, or will not, or doesn't care to participate in the usual bar activities available in Bangkok.

JAN 26, 2014 COLUMN

Sticking It Out.

In April 2005 I first thought about leaving Thailand. Mrs. Stick had headed back to Bangkok and I extended my stay at home by a week. I was sitting outside on one of those perfect Auckland days when there's nowhere else you'd rather be. The cloudless sky was a deep vivid blue you never see in Bangkok and breathing in the fresh morning air was like a hit of pure oxygen. Sipping my morning coffee, the opportunity cost of living in Bangkok was staring me in the face.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Staying-in-Thailand.htm

Western787

03-11-14, 09:34

Thailand seems to not roll over and die, but come back stronger each time.Yes, you are absolutely correct, and exactly why (largely) capitalist economic systems by unleashing the innate abilities, creativity, and entrepreneurial spirit of the people. despite the imperfectionsof such systems, will win over economic systems that punish success, treat people like infants, and create ever increasing government dependencies like pre 1980's Communist-socialism in China, and now Obama-socialism in the USA.

As you said, apparently when the flood crisis hit, many bar girls found other employment and never returned. Necessity, the opposite of government dependency, is the mother of invention one might say.

El Flaco

03-11-14, 09:49

Yes, you are absolutely correct, and exactly why (largely) capitalist economic systems by unleashing the innate abilities, creativity, and entrepreneurial spirit of the people. Despite the imperfectionsof such systems, will win over economic systems that punish success, treat people like infants, and create ever increasing government dependencies like pre 1980's Communist-socialism in China, and now Obama-socialism in the USA.

As you said, apparently when the flood crisis hit, many bar girls find other employment and never returned. Necessity, the opposite of government dependency, is the mother of invention one might say.There is article today in The Nation titled "Teflon Thailand". In fact, the country ability to recover quickly is well know to analysts and many Thais are proud of it.

BTW, if you could resize a little your continous eulogy of capitalism here, or move it to a more appropriate place.

Dornyone

03-11-14, 16:07

Same at Soil 11 in regard to massage shops.

Entering from Soi 11 (the only entrance in fact) into Villa Market, then leaving the store via the regular exit, you will usually be accosted by dozens of massage girls, some very sleazy, but some quite cute, since the (mandatory and only) exit requires you to run past either 6 plus shops east bound (toward Soil 13) OR the normal way, back to Soi 11 and 6 more shops west bound. Minus a couple of LB's I think in total approx 50 to 60 girls work just in those very small shops, and they get to give their best sales pitch to every Farang that happens to shop at Villa Market.

There is no escape and they all know you probably just overpaid at Villa for your favorite Farang food and therefore have cash.

As for HIllary Clubs, Hillary 3 and Hillary 1 in Nana are fantastic. Other two clubs OK too.Indeed, I too run the gauntlet of these hard sales pitch girls. I went back yesterday after getting my groceries as there was one that caught my eye."350 for full body Thai massage"

Not interested in having some 3rd rate canola rubbed on my skin thankee so we head back into the bowels of this dump to a cubicle. 3/4 of the way through a lackluster job, the light touching and giggling begins as expected. She asked for 2000 Baht but setled for 1500 incc the original Thai massage. The arrival of a loud gringo (yank) in the next cubicle, boasting about the "8 liters of beer" he had just drank put a damper on the mood and stopped yours truly from reaching his happy place within the allotted time. Be clear with these upsell gals that the 1 hr massage

Is not the drop dead limit for the pop.

On a side note, I note that there's an increasing contingent of Africans congregating in the alley adjacent the Villa market. Selling drugs or pimping?

Time will tell.

Western787

03-11-14, 17:04

Indeed, I too run the gauntlet of these hard sales pitch girls. I went back yesterday after getting my groceries as there was one that caught my eye."350 for full body Thai massage"

Not interested in having some 3rd rate canola rubbed on my skin thankee so we head back into the bowels of this dump to a cubicle. 3/4 of the way through a lackluster job, the light touching and giggling begins as expected. She asked for 2000 Baht but setled for 1500 incc the original Thai massage. The arrival of a loud gringo (yank) in the next cubicle, boasting about the "8 liters of beer" he had just drank put a damper on the mood and stopped yours truly from reaching his happy place within the allotted time. Be clear with these upsell gals that the 1 hr massage

Is not the drop dead limit for the pop.

On a side note, I note that there's an increasing contingent of Africans congregating in the alley adjacent the Villa market. Selling drugs or pimping?

Time will tell.Nigerians and yes drugs including heroin, pimping, and other times all kinds of phone cons including a few months back caught using counterfeit baht notes to fool their targets. Most Nigerians in Bangkok of course are not criminals including legit gemstone dealers. With Hyde Sukumvit (and the Hyatt) on the way on Soi 13, the criminal types may need to find new locales.

Goatscrot

03-12-14, 02:46

With Hyde Sukumvit (and the Hyatt) on the way on Soi 13, the criminal types may need to find new locales.I certainly hope that you are right! It is an eyesore.

Goatscrot

03-12-14, 02:51

Yes, you are absolutely correct, and exactly why (largely) capitalist economic systems by unleashing the innate abilities, creativity, and entrepreneurial spirit of the people. Despite the imperfectionsof such systems, will win over economic systems that punish success, treat people like infants, and create ever increasing government dependencies like pre 1980's Communist-socialism in China, and now Obama-socialism in the USA.

As you said, apparently when the flood crisis hit, many bar girls found other employment and never returned. Necessity, the opposite of government dependency, is the mother of invention one might say.Well, I would say that Thailand has not produced a very good standard of living for most of its population. The wealth disparity is huge.

Northern Europe is still the best model ever devised. The perfect blend. Obama is far from a socialist. He is center right and his policies reflect that. There are many things that don't function well in a market.

Goatscrot

03-12-14, 03:04

Oh Ok, he WAS married then and many other times inferred he cannot, or will not, or doesn't care to participate in the usual bar activities available in Bangkok.

JAN 26, 2014 COLUMN

Sticking It Out.

In April 2005 I first thought about leaving Thailand. Mrs. Stick had headed back to Bangkok and I extended my stay at home by a week. I was sitting outside on one of those perfect Auckland days when there's nowhere else you'd rather be. The cloudless sky was a deep vivid blue you never see in Bangkok and breathing in the fresh morning air was like a hit of pure oxygen. Sipping my morning coffee, the opportunity cost of living in Bangkok was staring me in the face.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Staying-in-Thailand.htmUm, catching on there, you are!

There are quite a few of us "long timers" who have grown tired of the bar scene. I think I was in Cowboy once last year and I live within a 5 min walk. Eventually you tire of it. It changes and you change. The fact that there are coyote girls there, insane prices for local beer and other alcohol, combined with the fact that I just find most of the girls there boring, and it is just not a place I want to be. Now if you could pay a "toilet fine" and take 'them back for a quick 1k romp in the hong nam, then it might be fun again.

There are very few dudes who have lived here for over a decade that still hang out in gogos. Don't get me wrong, there are a few. Hey, I loved it once and for quite a number of years, about 6. Midnight was the favorite hangout till it was sold to the Arab and then Cactus. But everything eventually gets old. When I first moved here I just could not understand the long term resident's attitude about the bar scene. Thought they were nuts to have pulled back. Now, I get it as it has happened to me.

I think it is great that guys still enjoy it. More power to them. But for my group of friends, when we head out, it is for some great food at one of the many wonderful local restaurants and then off to a few places we can get good beer and alcohol for a good price. Yes, they do exist. When wanting a little action, most of my friends have a list of numbers and "order in." I have a GF so it is oilies for me once every week or 10 days.

Syzygies

03-12-14, 03:09

Why can't Stickman participate in the bar industry? Did something happen? I don't know much about him but I enjoy reading his column. I don't get too worked up about his opinions. It's just one man's point of view.I thought a principal of the ISG is staying out of other people's private business, whether they are on ISG or not. That's why we have fake names.

DRRonin

03-12-14, 03:44

[Political Commentary deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited or deleted to remove political commentary. Please remember that the purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between men on the subject of finding women for sex. Please do not post political commentary in the Forum EXCEPT local politics as it directly pertains to the subject of local laws and ordinances regarding commercial sex in the area defined by the thread title. Thanks!

DRRonin

03-12-14, 03:49

Hiihii

03-12-14, 03:57

"There is article today in The Nation titled "Teflon Thailand". In fact, the country ability to recover quickly is well know to analysts and many Thais are proud of it.

BTW, if you could resize a little your continous eulogy of capitalism here, or move it to a more appropriate place."

Ya, if you are going to bring politics into a sex forum at least have something mildly intelligent to say other than the old tired Fox promoted nonsense about Obama bringing Socialism to America. Yawn. It only makes you look silly to most people.Most of us know a prostitute when we see one. [Political Commentary deleted by Admin]

So say I want to buy drugs from a nigerian. Whats the procedure? Does he take me to a secret place? Do I need password? Reference?

Its hard for me to believe they sell right out in open. In fact I hardly ever see anyone chatting to nigerians other than other nigerians. LOL.

Wouldn't it be safer to buy drugs from a Thai?

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited or deleted to remove political commentary. Please remember that the purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between men on the subject of finding women for sex. Please do not post political commentary in the Forum EXCEPT local politics as it directly pertains to the subject of local laws and ordinances regarding commercial sex in the area defined by the thread title. Thanks!

Goatscrot

03-12-14, 07:35

Its hard for me to believe they sell right out in open.Really? I have had them come up to me as I pass Soi 13 and ask me if I want to buy various drugs. Used to happen in the Soi 3 and 5 area as well.

Western787

03-12-14, 08:03

Wolvenvacht

03-12-14, 08:27

So say I want to buy drugs from a nigerian. Whats the procedure? Does he take me to a secret place? Do I need password? Reference?One way ticket to an all expense paid holiday, courtesy of the Thai Criminal Courts, in the Bangkok Hilton.

El Flaco

03-12-14, 09:18

One way ticket to an all expense paid holiday, courtesy of the Thai Criminal Courts, in the Bangkok Hilton.See how unjust life is? That is not happening, they are there everyday, why why why?

Personally I would not use capitals to name anything related to the Thai police and judicial system, it seems undeserved.

Mouse1

03-12-14, 09:35

Franciscass

03-12-14, 11:31

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Reef LostCause

03-12-14, 19:38

But first make up your mind if he is Muslim or a communist by birth, because he can't be both.Yemen comes to mind.

Mouse1

03-13-14, 01:25

DRRonin

03-13-14, 04:32

So say I want to buy drugs from a nigerian. Whats the procedure? Does he take me to a secret place? Do I need password? Reference?

Its hard for me to believe they sell right out in open. In fact I hardly ever see anyone chatting to nigerians other than other nigerians. LOL.

Wouldn't it be safer to buy drugs from a Thai?No idea what the secret password is. Probably something along the lines of "Hey do you have drugs to sell". If we know what's going on you can be sure the police know what's going on. And that means the Nigerians and everyone else doing business in lower Sukhumvit are paying off the cops to keep their business going. They used to sell out of the Burger King in Nana Sq but I guess they got kicked out of there. Still not recommended because every now and then the cops probably have to arrest someone to show they are more than an extortion enterprise which is what the cops in Thailand basically are, Extortion Inc. You would not want to be their arrest for the month.

Hiihii

03-13-14, 04:53

Personally I think the Nigerians are just enjoying themselves. Nothing wrong with milling around and talking to other Nigerians.

Mr 787 what happened to the doorman at R4? He was there everyday day for years. I remember he developed a bad cough.

Ying and Bo-both have in coomon in leaving their supporters worse off after their reign of terror than before. Very funny. Kind of. LOL.

Crocodilexp

03-13-14, 05:10

We will see two grades of working girls: very high end and very low end. The "in the middle girl" who worked jobs but did not make enough to make ends meet and would head out to FL a few nights a month are a quickly dying breed. They make enough to sustain themselves now.The most astute observation I've seen in a long time.

The segmentation is already happening. On the very low end, there are 300-600 baht hookers in Thai-oriented areas (Yaowarat, Khlong Lot) , and on the higher end is Sukhumwit with 2000-3000 cost of a ST (total cost, say 600 BF + 400 drinks + 2000 ST + 300 hotel). The middle ( 1000 baht per pop) is quickly disappearing, and the part-timer scene has pretty much died 3 years ago.

The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.

Going with a Bangkok working girl is getting as mechanical as any other city in the world (or in Asia, at least). And this will be the ultimate downfall of Bangkok as a mongering destination. Albeit in decline, Pattaya is still holding up somewhat, but that won't last too long either.

Phordphan

03-13-14, 07:38

Syzygies

03-13-14, 07:41

The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.There are still plenty of girls that can enjoy sex and get it off. It depends though on how many customers they have and whether you develop a mutual liking. I have several regular girls that act same as a GF. When I meet a new girl, if lucky I may be able to get a percentage turned on.

It depends how you treat the girl and if she actually likes you and feels no pressure or stress.

Goatscrot

03-13-14, 08:48

The most astute observation I've seen in a long time.

The segmentation is already happening. On the very low end, there are 300-600 baht hookers in Thai-oriented areas (Yaowarat, Khlong Lot) , and on the higher end is Sukhumwit with 2000-3000 cost of a ST (total cost, say 600 BF + 400 drinks + 2000 ST + 300 hotel). The middle (1000 baht per pop) is quickly disappearing, and the part-timer scene has pretty much died 3 years ago.

The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.

Going with a Bangkok working girl is getting as mechanical as any other city in the world (or in Asia, at least). And this will be the ultimate downfall of Bangkok as a mongering destination. Albeit in decline, Pattaya is still holding up somewhat, but that won't last too long either.Yep, spot on. The bread and butter of most mongers her for years was the 1k baht gal. Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out and have a good time. The more the price has increased the less fun it has become. Pay more get less, that seems to be the rule. Oilies still have some gems though.

Dudes come here and treat women the same way the treat women in the West. The accept what they get like little puppies. I see it all too often. An Asian woman will eat yo alive if you do that.

Western787

03-13-14, 09:34

The most astute observation I've seen in a long time.

The segmentation is already happening. On the very low end, there are 300-600 baht hookers in Thai-oriented areas (Yaowarat, Khlong Lot) , and on the higher end is Sukhumwit with 2000-3000 cost of a ST (total cost, say 600 BF + 400 drinks + 2000 ST + 300 hotel). The middle (1000 baht per pop) is quickly disappearing, and the part-timer scene has pretty much died 3 years ago.

The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.

Going with a Bangkok working girl is getting as mechanical as any other city in the world (or in Asia, at least). And this will be the ultimate downfall of Bangkok as a mongering destination. Albeit in decline, Pattaya is still holding up somewhat, but that won't last too long either.If Bangkok goes completely 1st world, in theory it could end up sort of like P4P in New York City where the market to some extent is divided between basically (low end) $50 "crack hoes" and ("high end") $400 plus escorts. However there are so many variables in Bangkok its hard to see that happening anytime within 5 to 10 years. You got cultural differences with far less stigma put on working girls, better quality street girls, and working girls of modest means who will increasingly want the Hi So Mall experience, and doing part time, and increased numbers of Burmese girls who will be arriving in larger numbers as Burma permits travel, and while the Chinese will bid prices up, they will have all ranges of mongers, so they might keep the cash flowing to keep the market diverse, maybe help the mid range also, including getting more business for the high overhead soapy palaces.

Western787

03-13-14, 09:54

Yep, spot on. The bread and butter of most mongers her for years was the 1k baht gal. Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out and have a good time."Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out"? Nana Parking Lot girls not bad sometimes

Hiihii

03-13-14, 12:24

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EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited or deleted because the writing was so bad that the report was nearly impossible to comprehend.

ChoduMadan

03-13-14, 15:07

Goatscrot

03-13-14, 17:05

"Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out"? Nana Parking Lot girls not bad sometimesHave not partaken there in a long time. Will give it a look see.

Western787

03-13-14, 17:56

I plan to travel to Bangkok next week and was wondering if it is safe to travel to Bangkok and stay as I plan to stay at Sukhumvit Soi 13 at Residence Inn, Anyone who can let me have information on safety for travelling in Bangkok and roaming around Soi Cowboy and Nana late at Nights. Any experience on Residence Inn also would be welcome.Demonstrations are mostly gone and you can move about the city w / o any problems with both sides in pre talking phase it appears. Late nights and even 2, 3, to 4 am are very safe in Bangkok especially when you stay near main road Sukhumvit, avoid dark streets when you can etc.

Soi 13 in a strategic sense is good, near Thermae and half way between Nana and Soi Cowboy, but you are fairly deep into Soi 13 and its not one I would walk deep into late at night unless i had no choice, but that could be just a matter of perception to some extent..

I don't think Soi 13 will have any problems per se but its simpler to get a 24/7 busier and safer soi, for example Soi 11 which is wider and better lit. I don't know about Residence Inn, but I know the general area.

Have you considered Nana Hotel? on Soi 4? (sometimes to get rooms you need to go to official site) but its extremely handy to a lot of things. Just a bit further distance to get to Soi Cowboy from Soi 4 (vs Soi 13)

The best rule is to book hotels as close as possible to main street , including Sukhumvit of course, Soi 4, Soi 11, Soi 7 and other places where there are lots of people all hours, with no dark low light areas.

There is a discussion below about Nigerian drug dealers in and around Soi 13 but generally not too much of a problem, and most i think come hang near Soi 3 anyways.

Western787

03-13-14, 18:14

Have not partaken there in a long time. Will give it a look see.Somebody said elsewhere the pattern in Bangkok usually is one bad experience. 2 average experiences, and one great experience. And I think the same can be said about NPL, as gems do show up now and then.

Western787

03-13-14, 18:19

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EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited or deleted because the writing was so bad that the report was nearly impossible to comprehend. No doubt he saw an amazing hottie in Rainbow 4 and couldn't contain himself and became discombobulated trying to describe her great beauty.

Mouse1

03-13-14, 18:33

Why is communism and Islamism (well, I say it's a word!) mutually exclusive? They're basically dictatorships. Small bodies of old men telling everybody what they can and cannot do, at the point of a gun.Praise be to Allaah.

It is not possible for a person to be a Muslim and a Communist at the same time, because they are opposites that cannot co-exist in the same individual without one of them prevailing and the other being eliminated. Whoever is a Communist is not a Muslim. Communism involves different kinds of blatant kufr, such as denying the existence of Allaah (may He be glorified and exalted), denying the existence of the unseen worlds, making a mockery of the religion of Allaah and looking down on it, and flouting its laws and morals. How can the Muslim whose religion is Islam follow an ideology which states that religion is the opium of the people? Communists are among the kuffaar in refutation of whom Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) : 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief. ' [al-Toor 52:35-36] How can the Muslim follow a group whose belief is such? We ask Allaah for guidance.

Wolvenvacht

03-13-14, 19:06

Have you considered Nana Hotel? on Soi 4? (sometimes to get rooms you need to go to official site) but its extremely handy to a lot of things. Just a bit further distance to get to Soi Cowboy from Soi 4 (vs Soi 13)Nana Hotel may have been a good hotel once (perhaps during the Vietnam War, when GIs did their R&R here?) but it is now long past its prime. Unless of course you like fluorescent lights, glacial airco, windows with a view on a blind concrete wall and furniture that is still the original one when the hotel was built. And they try to get you in the hotel taxi to the airport at prices at least 3 times the metered taxi price.

Crocodilexp

03-13-14, 19:54

There are still plenty of girls that can enjoy sex and get it off. It depends though on how many customers they have and whether you develop a mutual liking. I have several regular girls that act same as a GF. When I meet a new girl, if lucky I may be able to get a percentage turned on.

It depends how you treat the girl and if she actually likes you and feels no pressure or stress.I'm comparing the Bangkok scene over a time span of 6+ years. I'm the constant factor there, and if anything things have gotten smoother on my side of things during the years (more fluent in Thai, more capable of steering the interaction where I want it, and bypassing the rough edges). But there is no denying that the average girl's attitude has gone significantly away from a friendly, bubbly GFE, and it's now more of an exception (though not an impossibly rare one like in Frankfurt) instead of the norm.

As for having regular working girls, I go with hookers precisely to avoid such regularity. Sure, I might do 2-3 repeats with a provider I like, but in my early 40's, I can still get a fair amount of interest from regular Thai women (not bragging, it's a non-acchievement in Thailand). But they take so much time to manage, and the variety is not optimal. To each their own, but I'm more of a variety guy who fails to see the point of investing significant time or money into cultivating a specific working girl.

Back in the golden days (and still sometimes in Pattaya) it was possible to get that instant-girlfriend "hey, we could hang out" feeling after 30 min first time together, not just the "done, next" vibe that increasingly seems to be the standard.

Global Surfer

03-14-14, 01:37

Hiihii

03-14-14, 01:48

Have not partaken there in a long time. Will give it a look see.I doubt you going to find a hawt girl who is conversant in world events in the parking lot. They do cum cheap though.

Goatscrot

03-14-14, 01:49

Praise be to Allaah.

It is not possible for a person to be a Muslim and a Communist at the same time, because they are opposites that cannot co-exist in the same individual without one of them prevailing and the other being eliminated. Whoever is a Communist is not a Muslim. Communism involves different kinds of blatant kufr, such as denying the existence of Allaah (may He be glorified and exalted) , denying the existence of the unseen worlds, making a mockery of the religion of Allaah and looking down on it, and flouting its laws and morals. How can the Muslim whose religion is Islam follow an ideology which states that religion is the opium of the people? Communists are among the kuffaar in refutation of whom Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) : 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief. ' [al-Toor 52:35-36] How can the Muslim follow a group whose belief is such? We ask Allaah for guidance.It is not possible for a person to be Islamic and communist at the same time.

The inherent problem with Islam is gov and religion are inseparable. It makes a "secular" society impossible in the Islamic world. Islamic states are beyond oppressive, seeking to control all aspects of people's lives; and try to leave the religion and you have issues. Christianity is bad but at least you don't have the nutty religious police running around telling people what to do. The way they treat women is abominable. Would love to see all Islamic women throw off their burqas, don some short skirts, cut off their men sexually, and assert themselves. Islam is truly stuck in the middle ages and trying to drag the rest of the world back.

Arab society takes control to the absolute limit. Not a lot of happy people running about Suk Soi 3, but some great food. I certainly pity the folks.

Western787

03-14-14, 02:39

Nana Hotel may have been a good hotel once (perhaps during the Vietnam War, when GIs did their R&R here?) but it is now long past its prime. Unless of course you like fluorescent lights, glacial airco, windows with a view on a blind concrete wall and furniture that is still the original one when the hotel was built. And they try to get you in the hotel taxi to the airport at prices at least 3 times the metered taxi price.The OP claims seems focused on having total safety for "travelling in Bangkok and ROAMING around Soi Cowboy and Nana late at Nights." which I interpreted to mean to randomly walking between entertainment districts and his hotel, and Nana Hotel (being on a main Soi and next to a major entertaiment district) solves that problem.

IMHO the best rule is to 1. To avoid being deep into a soi 2. If one has to be deep into a Soi, makes sure its a very heavy traffic and well lit Soi like Soi 11 or the first 400 to 500 meters of Soi 4 or other comparable sois.

Western787

03-14-14, 02:53

Has anyone tried Arab Night Clubs on Soi 3 / Arab?

Could anyone please recommend a tall 5'-9/10 Thai in or around Nana Plaza / Soi Cowboy? (I am aware of tall stunning hyperactive 'girls' in front of Nana Plaza – I am not interested in them)?

Generally I prefer to find myself but unfortunately I have never been able to find a tall Thai.

I will be visiting soon and help would be greatly appreciated?

Thanks Literally 5-9 to 5-10? and stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places

Even in the west that narrows it down a huge amount.

You don't like long legs 5-5 to 5-7 types?

Well, if you've got huge bucks and want to blow money at G Clubs (or in an extreme case hang out at trade shows or Malls talking to spoke models and so forth with large wads of Bahts) you MIGHT find one, but she probably won't be takeout. So what's the point?

Your requirement effectively eliminate 99% of P4P providers in Bangkok, it would be like going to Kiev and demanding someone 4 ft 8 inches tall, it doesn't make sense, with the odds better in Kiev in fact. Thai women average 3 to 4 inches shorter height than typical western women, and you've probably noticed it when you've pulled a Go Go off the stage, as very often (though proportional relative to leg length etc). she typically will be shorter what you THOUGHT you saw on stage. Westerners used to looking for example at strip club stage dancers have trouble IMHO in making that contextual adjustment.

Yujin

03-14-14, 03:15

Nana Hotel may have been a good hotel once (perhaps during the Vietnam War, when GIs did their R&R here?) but it is now long past its prime. Unless of course you like fluorescent lights, glacial airco, windows with a view on a blind concrete wall and furniture that is still the original one when the hotel was built. And they try to get you in the hotel taxi to the airport at prices at least 3 times the metered taxi price.On my first Bangkok trip in 2000, I stayed at the Nana Hotel in their cheapest room. It was a "dump", but better than similar priced hotel rooms in Bangkok. For my rookie trip to Thailand, the location couldn't be beat. I kind of liked the hotel's "sleazy" atmosphere and reputation. I've stayed in worst hotels in my travels through SE Asia and South America. If you're used to staying at upscale hotels like the Hilton, Hyatt or Marriott, the Nana Hotel isn't for you.

On my subsequent trips to Bangkok, I've stayed at other hotels. I did visit a fellow monger who was staying at the Nana Hotel in one of their suites which was pretty nice.

Western787

03-14-14, 04:10

I'm comparing the Bangkok scene over a time span of 6+ years. I'm the constant factor there, and if anything things have gotten smoother on my side of things during the years (more fluent in Thai, more capable of steering the interaction where I want it, and bypassing the rough edges). But there is no denying that the average girl's attitude has gone significantly away from a friendly, bubbly GFE, and it's now more of an exception (though not an impossibly rare one like in Frankfurt) instead of the norm.Assuming everything (in P4P terms) is on a near continuous downward slope (let says peaking 15 years back) at what point of the slope do you believe Bangkok is presently in before it becomes very similar to a western city.

Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back - is it further down the slope than that?

Paul Kausch

03-14-14, 05:03

Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back. Is it further down the slope than that?Your question assumes change is linear. This is only true on short time scales. Generally change is curvilinear.

For example what if Thaksin eventually prevailed? I wouldn't bet on it, but he might. Then he gets his 2 trillion in additional debt for infrastructure; he puts 20% in his pocket; squanders some of the rest; saddles the country with unsustainable levels of debt; eventually Thailand goes in default; the economy crashes; and the baht drops to 50 to the US dollar. Seems that would mark the beginning of a golden age in mongering. Though I'm not holding my breath.

Western787

03-14-14, 06:39

Your question assumes change is linear. This is only true on short time scales. Generally change is curvilinear.

For example what if Thaksin eventually prevailed? I wouldn't bet on it, but he might. Then he gets his 2 trillion in additional debt for infrastructure; he puts 20% in his pocket; squanders some of the rest; saddles the country with unsustainable levels of debt; eventually Thailand goes in default; the economy crashes; and the baht drops to 50 to the US dollar. Seems that would mark the beginning of a golden age in mongering. Though I'm not holding my breath.I am aware that (assuming it could be accurately indexed somehow)"P4P quality" is not in linear decline, and for that matter (though the main driver) the inverse relation between economic improvement and decreased P4P quality itself is not always linear. The question posed required an assumption of NEAR continuous decline (the larger megatrend in fact) to keep the question itself simple

Thaksin bankrupting Thailand might do it, or (not much on the Baht per se but Thai economy) if the USA has some event where the dollar itself comes under attack. That could hurt both China and Thailand's economy near term.

Short of a collapse of the USA economy which would cause a world wide depression, Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.

Paul Kausch

03-14-14, 07:09

Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.I think you're right. China's economy will continue to grow. Eventually there will be enough people with enough wealth for the creation of a consumption driven economy. I think China's biggest challenges are it's ethnic minorities and environmental problems. Chinese prosperity will spread. Thailand's current problems are short term. Eventually this mess will get sorted out and it will be back to business.

Thailand's P4P is effected by the strong Thai economy; and by declining birth rates; and by larger numbers of Asian mongers.

FreebieFan

03-14-14, 09:54

It is not possible for a person to be a Muslim and a Communist at the same time, because they are opposites that cannot co-exist in the same individual without one of them prevailing and the other being eliminated. Whoever is a Communist is not a Muslim. Communism involves different kinds of blatant kufr, such as denying the existence of Allaah (may He be glorified and exalted), denying the existence of the unseen worlds, making a mockery of the religion of Allaah and looking down on it, and flouting its laws and morals. How can the Muslim whose religion is Islam follow an ideology which states that religion is the opium of the people? Communists are among the kuffaar in refutation of whom Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) : 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief. ' [al-Toor 52:35-36] How can the Muslim follow a group whose belief is such? We ask Allaah for guidance.Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580248/Saudi-Arabia-bans-naming-children-Linda.html

Those wonderful fellas in Saudi have scored another " jokers of the year" award with this novel piece of nonsense.

Its running second, in the " Muslim Joke of the Year " to the 5 times a day plonker who said it was "haram " to land on Mars.

I think a few countries should reciprocate and tell all Mohammads that from now on, they are to be called Horace or Gerald.

Western787

03-14-14, 11:29

I think you're right. Chinese prosperity will spread. .The day China was changed forever and the same reason why the Thais were able to build a world class city. From National Public Radio:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/20/145360447/the-secret-document-that-transformed-china

Here is a copy of the actual document that transformed China:

http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/ctenglish/se/download/site127/20090710/00142ad54b730bc0ee3d02.jpeg

Goatscrot

03-14-14, 11:31

Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.Agreed 100.

Western787

03-14-14, 14:02

Good reason why one may want to stay away from the Russians (Uzbek's technically) as well the as the Grace Hotel. This documentary is relatively new (2011 or later) and focuses on Uzbek trafficking, which no doubt occurs in some form. As expected it also contains the usual wild NGO "[CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908)" claims, but they are much more hedged and nuanced than usual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1nRKU6ug9M

Kerrstar

03-14-14, 16:32

Literally 5-9 to 5-10? and stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places.I don't know, depends how fussy he is about additional equipment the girls might carry. I've spent the last 4 years living in Singapore and drinking in a bar that had lots of Russian dancers and lots of 5'10" long haired Thais in tight fitting dresses. OK, they may have been guys, but that didn't seem to stop some of the punters. I stuck with the Russians, having spent most of the past 18 years in SE Asia a nice blonde makes a change.

Still cracks me up how many mongerers (including a mate of mine) couldn't tell the difference. I'm now in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar, and can barely find a place to drink, let alone any girls.

Mouse1

03-14-14, 16:51

Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580248/Saudi-Arabia-bans-naming-children-Linda.html

Those wonderful fellas in Saudi have scored another " jokers of the year" award with this novel piece of nonsense.

Its running second, in the " Muslim Joke of the Year " to the 5 times a day plonker who said it was "haram " to land on Mars.

I think a few countries should reciprocate and tell all Mohammads that from now on, they are to be called Horace or Gerald.I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.

Kaintuck

03-14-14, 17:00

I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.I have friends in France who are Cambodian Cham refugees from the war. The Cham are an ethnic Muslim minority in Cambodia and Vietnam dating back to their ancient empire. My friends were named Ibrahim, Mohammad, and Musfafa before 9/11. They then changed their names to Bob, Bill, and Ed. They no longer wanted to be identified with Islam (although they did not change their religion.) They also did not want to be identified with France.

Mua Tur

03-14-14, 18:39

I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.That's not fully correct. So far I know most Muslim peoples want to apply their children's name in Arabic. It is for their religious belief (because of Al-Quran written in Arabic). And to stay more closer to the name of Prophet Mohammad.

Syzygies

03-14-14, 19:47

Does this sort of thing happen much?

I am walking along Suk Soi 19 late last night. I pass a short semi-dumpy woman with some grey hair, maybe 50 to 60 years old. I'm 57 but probably look about 50.

She says hello in a kurt voice with an Eartha Kit tone. I turn toward her a little expecting her to ask directions to where something is. She just says "2000" (in English) then after a very brief pause (no more than 1 second), perhaps sensing I'm stunned, says "200 massage". I just continue on my way with no response.

I would not really even consider doing her, if was a freebie, as I am heading back to 35 year old GF who still has a fabulously sexy tight body, and I don't really like true Thai massage at all. I have been far to spoiled, associating with young ladies, even when I have to pay. I could easily do an older lady of 40 to 45 if she was in good shape and still a hottie I guess. This woman was really just far too ordinary. I guess many guys are married to some ordinary woman like this.

Crocodilexp

03-14-14, 21:14

Assuming everything (in P4P terms) is on a near continuous downward slope (let says peaking 15 years back) at what point of the slope do you believe Bangkok is presently in before it becomes very similar to a western city.

Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back . Is it further down the slope than that?Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city. But it might eventually get to the level of an uninteresting modern Asian city, like, say, Hong Kong, Signapore or Kuala Lumpur, where mongering very much exists, but it tends to be either wham-bam-next-10-clients please at the low end geared to locals (Geylang, HK 141, Petaling) , or too much teasing and spotty service plus extremely high prices in foreigner-oriented section (Orchard towers, Wanchai, Beach Club). Still relatively easy to get laid, but it gets boring quickly and nobody travels there for sex.

In the worst case, I guess it could end up like Manila if a strong paternalistic gov't comes to power again and does another round of restricting the nighlife, like what Purachai did in the early 2000s.

What was special about the Thai scene was the ubiquitous GFE in most sessions. There are loads of hookers in PRC or Vietnam, and they're not even expensive, but the attitudes are so bad that I often think I'm far better off looking than taking one. Increasingly poor attitudes and mechanical minimum-required service is what will do in Bangkok as a sex destination (this is well underway already) and I don't see some short-term price / supply fluctuations (say, due to an economic or political crisis) making much difference.

There's a convincing article about demographic underpinnings of the sex scene decline in Thailand (Google: "Thailand's doomsday approaches"). That might matter more than just the improving economy.

BionicMan

03-14-14, 21:49

Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city.Pretty much an appropriate mid-long term vision.

On the other hand there is no city / nation / government. In a fast and global visibility also due to technologies. That want to be depicted as a sex destination, even if, under the skin, they do make quite a living out of the sex industry.

Not only in Thailand there is a lot of people living or supporting the sex industry not from the customer side and who are those supposedly being those officially appointed to keep the town / nation clean from the sex industry. More than anywhere this is in Asia.

Today BKK (and Thailand in general) is not (yet?) into that path but there are signs it is heading there.

Look at the real estate investments (4-5 star hotels, shopping malls, etc) in Sukhumvit, especially "low Suk". Sooner or later these will kick out the P4P scene as they cannot tolerate it to happen. They could have done a Geylang scene (RLD) for instance, but they are not. There seems to be a plan to have, opposite BeerGarden, in Soi 7, a new building complex: another sign of the transformation. So, sooner or later, even BG will be "out of place" and somebody will be told to change his trade business or somebody will just buy the land and build another type of trade.

Whether this immense growth of shopping malls and 4-5 star hotels will be in good business or not is another story.

A) can the (local and visitor) market absorb such a trade supply offer?

B) will the visitors still visit after there is no more (significant) P4P action?

Today there is a mix (with growth of non P4P visitors) , but tomorrow this might change.

But the autorhities will look good:

A) they have cleaned the city and reduced the idea of a sex industry city.

Be) they have given (or claim they generated the opportunity) employement during construction period.

See) they have creted future job opportunities in the malls and hotels, job off the P4P industry.

The) the investors have made their money (and maybe shared some tea money to get permits etc) , especially those in the building industry. They do not care then if the mall will generate profits or not. (that will be up to the trade industry. They (the builders) are already off to the next building site.

Paul Kausch

03-14-14, 22:13

Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city. But it might eventually get to the level of an uninteresting modern Asian city, like, say, Hong Kong, Signapore or Kuala Lumpur.

There's a convincing article about demographic underpinnings of the sex scene decline in Thailand (Google: "Thailand's doomsday approaches"). That might matter more than just the improving economy.HK and Singapore are Chinese, with a dash of British. KL is Malay, again with a dash of British, and predominantly Muslim. Bangkok is Thai. There are significant cultural differences between these cities.

As for the Stickman article, about 6 month ago I sent him an email in response to one of his weekly articles about the declining quality of gogo girls. My email contained one simple table of Thai demographic data from 1950 through 2010. Stick referred me to the Doomsday article. He said it appeared in late 2012. This article and my email were in essential agreement; however, the Doomsday article was obviously not written by a demographer. It did not discuss the impact of Crude Death Rates (CDR) on the population profile. This can only be inferred from the changes in the population pyramids in the Doomsday article. So many words and tables when the whole story could have been told with a few simple numbers.

Here is what is behind the changes in the population pyramid in the Doomsday article. In 1950-55 Thailand's Crude Birth Rate (CBR) was 42.5 while its CDR was 15.6. That is, there was a average of 42.5 births and 15.6 deaths per 1000 people during that time period. From this the Natural Change (NC) per 1000 can be calculated. It was 27.0 (with rounding). Even though the CBR dropped slightly in 1960-65, a much greater decrease in CDR resulted in the NC peaking at 30.3. By 2005-2010 CBR had dropped to 12.9 and CDR dropped to 7.2. NC declined to 5.7. In other words, the NC by 2010 was one-fifth what it had been in 1960.

The Doomsday article wisely included a figure with a graph illustrating per capita Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) , which increased 9-fold between 1980 and 2010. With the exception of dips with the crisis in the late 1990s and the great recession of 2008, the increase in PPP is linear. This backs up the many ISG posts that have remarked how better employment opportunities have impacted the P4P scene.

A major deficiency in the Doomsday article is it's failure to discuss immigration/emigration. If Thailand prospers relative to its neighbors, people seeking better opportunities will be drawn to Thailand. This will include some sex workers. Thailand has a relatively tolerant attitude towards sex workers. As long as this persists, it is reasonable to think there will be a relatively large P4P scene.

Are the good old days ever returning? Do they ever? Guys who write about how great it was in the 1990s or first decade of this century should talk to my Vietnam Vet buddies who did R&R in Bangkok and Pattaya in 1967. A couple of my buddies went back in the late late 1990s and remarked that the good old days were long gone. It's all relative. Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.

Paul Kausch

03-14-14, 22:33

Look at the real estate investments (4-5 star hotels, shopping malls, etc) in Sukhumvit, especially "low Suk". Sooner or later these will kick out the P4P scene as they cannot tolerate it to happen.But aren't all these 4 and 4 star hotels GF? Quality sex workers are always welcome in quality hotels. I've stood in hotel lobbies with escorts I've booked and had very friendly conversations with hotel management staff who showed considerable respect for the escort I was with. And they didn't bat an eye on the occasions I was accompanied by two escorts. However, three star hotels can get testy about guests bringing ladies that were obviously picked up on the street onto the premise.

Strip clubs, where FS is common on the premises are found throughout Southeast Florida. San Francisco has a very visible sex scene west of Union Square. There is a thriving P4P scene in every large city in every country I've ever visited. In some it is less visible, but it's always present. The big soapies like those found along Ratchda are not going away. The real estate NEP and Soi Cowboy sit on my become too valuable to host the P4P scene, but as long as there are large numbers of farangs looking for sex around lower Suk, the P4P scene will find a home somewhere in the neighborhood. Beer Garten may disappear; the Nana Hotel parking lot may disappear; but the business will find a new home somewhere near by.

Western787

03-14-14, 23:06

I don't know, depends how fussy he is about additional equipment the girls might carry. I've spent the last 4 years living in Singapore and drinking in a bar that had lots of Russian dancers and lots of 5'10" long haired Thais in tight fitting dresses. OK, they may have been guys, but that didn't seem to stop some of the punters. I stuck with the Russians, having spent most of the past 18 years in SE Asia a nice blonde makes a change.

Still cracks me up how many mongerers (including a mate of mine) couldn't tell the difference. I'm now in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar, and can barely find a place to drink, let alone any girls.LOL, no he specified a real girl. By the way Thermae's supposedly strict "no LB" rule apparently now has a post op exception. I would think the Japs would be pretty pissed if they ever got fooled.

AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates? That rules out most G club girls and probably all of off-market (literal) model-hookers and similar quality women. Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venues doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty - they must get hit on many times a day.

BionicMan

03-14-14, 23:18

But aren't all these 4 and 4 star hotels GF? Quality sex workers are always welcome in quality hotels. I've stood in hotel lobbies with escorts I've booked and had very friendly conversations with hotel management staff who showed considerable respect for the escort I was with. And they didn't bat an eye on the occasions I was accompanied by two escorts. However, three star hotels can get testy about guests bringing ladies that were obviously picked up on the street onto the premise.The hotels are in for the trade, to have business and make money, so they are not much concerned (not much does not mean they are not attentive) about the fact you bring in a P4P girl.

Just as in KL, SIN, HKG (and UAE) etc. If you are in a 4-5 star hotel you will not bring back, most likely, a trashed hooker. (how many normal girls are in the hotel with their husband or partner and dressed sexy. Quite some, so if a WG is dressed appropriately, it does nto mean with a burka, she can pass as a sexy lady with her partner)

The city saves face as it has (more) 4-5 stars hotels, rather than dodgy places not able to cater for families but mainly to the mongerers.

The 4-5 star hotels calls for premium customers who "don't want to show they attend much the P4P scene" even if they do. So they are discrete, etc, still pay premium prices, and the hotel saves face.

Western787

03-14-14, 23:32

The NANA hotel is run on conservative principles and fosters traditional values.

The NANA does not hesitate to refuse rooms to persons unsuited to the prevailing ethos of The Nana – even if they have a confirmed reservation.

1 / The NANA does not welcome SEX TOURISTS, and does not try to be polite about it.

Borderline cases are not given the benefit of the doubt, but are treated as sex tourists.

Those who are borderline cases should stay elsewhere.

Guests who attempt to bring in bargirls, catamites and their like will be told in plain language to settle their bills and leave.

Remaining on the premises after being told to leave will be treated as a police matter.

The Nana does not ask for or listen to explanations or excuses, and does not apologise for the manner in which miscreants are thrown out.

The Nana also does not apologise for any mistakes it may be accused of having made with regard to the identification of sex tourists.

To keep The Nana private, secure, wholesome and sleaze-free for the kind of guests we welcome, room guests are not permitted to take visitors / outsiders upstairs into the building and their rooms, or into the garden and pool area.

Exceptions may be made in appropriate circumstances at the management's discretion.

Suitable visitors / outsiders may be entertained in the restaurant.

2 / The NANA operates a "ZERO TOLERANCE " policy regarding

&9702; TROUBLE-MAKERS,

&9702; POSSESSORS AND USERS OF ILLICIT DRUGS and

&9702; ALL OTHER ILLEGAL AND NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES.

3 / The NANA also does NOT WELCOME.

&9702; UNDOMESTICATED PEOPLE – the sort of people whose conduct and appearance give tourists in general and their compatriots in particular a bad name.

When The NANA states 'NOT WELCOME', The NANA means it. There will be no politeness about it.

4 / The NANA welcomes FAMILIES and prides itself on its child-friendly staff, but families are welcome only if CHILDREN are KEPT UNDER REASONABLE CONTROL.

The NANA is not a playground for children: children must not be allowed to disturb other guests. Families that do not keep their children under control will be told to settle their bill and leave in no uncertain manner.

5 / The NANA particularly welcome guests who like PETS and ANIMALS.

The NANA is home to many rescued cats, terrapins and one dog, all of which are well cared for. The garden of The NANA is also home to many squirrels, birds, etc. However, guests are not allowed to bring in pets or other rescued animals. The NANA already has too many rescued animals on the premises.

Visitors who object to any of The NANA's policies or who intend to spend their time in Thailand whoring, behaving badly, indulging in alcohol abuse and illicit drugs should stay elsewhere. The NANA is not that kind of place.

Tourism is not about going on a rampage through other people's country: those who cannot travel abroad without behaving badly should stay home.

On these policies, The NANA is not interested in dissenting public opinion or what the business world calls 'customer feedback'.

The NANA caters to a certain kind of clientele and that is the end of the matter.

No discussion. No compromise.

http://www.theatlantahotelbangkok.com/facilities.php

Paul Kausch

03-14-14, 23:41

AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates?

Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venuesi doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty. They must get hit on many times a day.The tallest lady I've ever been with in Bangkok is Aor (#24 at Annie's). I'd estimate she is 5'7" (170cm) in her bare feet. I had a brief conversation with the two ladies in the attached photo. I'm 6'2" (188cm). I'd say allowing for their heels 5'9" (175cm) is a fair estimate of their height. During our brief conversation (I think we exhausted our respective Thai and English vocabularies in about 60 seconds) they were polite (did establish eye contact) but were adept at discouraging any thought of a solicitation. FYI, in person they were at least as attractive as they appear in the photo.

While a farang sex monger wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of hooking up with them, as one would expect ladies like these do make their charms available to wealthy and influential men. Though not as tall (probably about 168cm), the model and TV actress my friend hooked me up with years ago was at least as attractive as these ladies. As I've mentioned in other posts and PMs, she spoke very little English and the sex with her was no better than average. So in my opinion there is no need to envy the HiSo Thai gents who bed these ladies. The sex with a good gogo or MP girl is much better.

Paul Kausch

03-14-14, 23:43

The hotels are in for the trade, to have business and make money, so they are not much concerned (not much does not mean they are not attentive) about the fact you bring in a P4P girl.Your analysis is spot on. It is called the hospitality industry.

Western787

03-15-14, 00:13

A major deficiency in the Doomsday article is it's failure to discuss immigration / emigration. If Thailand prospers relative to its neighbors, people seeking better opportunities will be drawn to Thailand. This will include some sex workers. Thailand has a relatively tolerant attitude towards sex workers. As long as this persists, it is reasonable to think there will be a relatively large P4P scene.

Are the good old days ever returning? Do they ever? Guys who write about how great it was in the 1990s or first decade of this century should talk to my Vietnam Vet buddies who did R&R in Bangkok and Pattaya in 1967. A couple of my buddies went back in the late late 1990s and remarked that the good old days were long gone. It's all relative. Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.Burma with 60 million people (Thailand's level) will be an increasingly important WG source as travel restrictions are liberalized. Of course already Burma is the main source of construction and labor workers for Thailand and they get special visas and of course work at incredibly low wages, but as some say "better than working for free" in Burma. I guess they just feed them and house then in Burma with zero pay often times.

From the web from I believe 10 plus years back "Hundreds of thousands of Burmese migrant workers are employed in various sectors of Thai industry, including fisheries, manufacturing, domestic and construction work, hotels and restaurants, and agriculture. As Thailand has become more prosperous, fewer Thai people are willing to work in jobs which are commonly known as 'dirty, dangerous, and demeaning', and Burmese nationals have arrived in Thailand in increasing numbers to fill the labour shortage."

Note although in a different context, it brings up the issue of Thais leaving "demeaning" jobs.

Paul Kausch

03-15-14, 00:51

Burma with 60 million people (Thailand's level) will be an increasingly important WG source as travel restrictions are liberalized. Of course already Burma is the main source of construction and labor workers for Thailand and they get special visas and of course work at incredibly low wages, but as some say "better than working for free" in Burma. I guess they just feed them and house then in Burma with zero pay often times.This post illustrates the forces that drive immigration. Thais who own and operate fishing boats have been accused by international watchdogs of slavery. According to the NGOs, Burmese men will board the boat and never get off. Once the boat embarks, it doesn't return to port. Fish are offloaded while offshore. The poor men working the boat have no opportunity to get off.

Kaintuck

03-15-14, 00:54

CeeView

03-15-14, 02:15

Am I missing something. Didn't there used to be links to reports of distinction on these threads?

I am traveling to Bangkok this week as was hoping to find the latest info on where to find some fun and where to stay, this thread seems to have turned into more of a chatter though?

Any direction and tips for a great stay in Bangkok really appreciated.

Global Surfer

03-15-14, 02:30

Literally 5-9 to 5-10? And stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places.

Even in the west that narrows it down a huge amount.

You don't like long legs 5-5 to 5-7 types?

Well, if you've got huge bucks and want to blow money at G Clubs (or in an extreme case hang out at trade shows or Malls talking to spoke models and so forth with large wads of Bahts) you MIGHT find one, but she probably won't be takeout. So what's the point?

Your requirement effectively eliminate 99% of P4P providers in Bangkok, it would be like going to Kiev and demanding someone 4 ft 8 inches tall, it doesn't make sense, with the odds better in Kiev in fact. Thai women average 3 to 4 inches shorter height than typical western women, and you've probably noticed it when you've pulled a Go Go off the stage, as very often (though proportional relative to leg length etc). She typically will be shorter what you THOUGHT you saw on stage. Westerners used to looking for example at strip club stage dancers have trouble IMHO in making that contextual adjustment.Thanks for the information. I am aware of that but there is no harm in trying. The average height is increasing so does the chance of success and there are always exceptions.

Generally I have no problem dropping in Kiev while flying from Europe to Dubai; however, there are a few problems in paradise at this time, although, Bangkok is not politically very stable either. Anyway it's not right to ignore Asians and Africans. .

I have no interest in spending fortune on models.

I give so much importance to height because I am 1. 88

We see how it goes.

Paul Kausch

03-15-14, 03:00

I give so much importance to height because I am 1. 88

We see how it goes.We're the same height. I have no problem of a physical nature with the height of the Bangkok ladies, if that is what you are concerned about. It's not to hard to find ladies around 1.65. In December a young inexperienced escort was a bit astonished when I opened my hotel room door. She was about 1.5. She asked my height. I said something like 1.5, which she thought was very funny. We had a great time.

Hiihii

03-15-14, 04:08

LOL, no he specified a real girl. By the way Thermae's supposedly strict "no LB" rule apparently now has a post op exception. I would think the Japs would be pretty pissed if they ever got fooled.

AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates? That rules out most G club girls and probably all of off-market (literal) model-hookers and similar quality women. Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venues doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty. They must get hit on many times a day.Stunners? I've seen these, very few are stunners! God did not make that many stunners and I find it hard to believe, a real stunner is going to work for so little money as paid to shopping center pitchwomans.

I wonder if agogo girls avoid eye contact because they don't want UNsolicited sexual advances too. LOL.

Lover Boy #2

03-15-14, 04:17

Lover Boy #2

03-15-14, 04:19

Yujin

03-15-14, 05:19

Times must have changed. During the Vietnam war the Nana was famous for the "Puying Room" where off-duty hookers would hang out, socialize, and offer cut-rate services. In recent years it is still hospitable to working girls in the coffee shop where I have made a few instant friends.Western787's post isn't serious, but a poor attempt at humor. He copied it from the Atlanta Hotel's website and replaced Atlanta's name with Nana. The problem with what Western787 posted is that it can be easily misunderstood as true (which happened to you and I'm sure others) and it gets repeated as true to others. I personally think that "humor" like this is somewhat malicious since it can cause harm to the Nana Hotel's business of catering to mongers.

Syzygies

03-15-14, 07:48

I was here in Thailand in 1989 for 5 weeks. Was it much better than now? Ok was cheaper. I got a Cowboy bargirl for whole night for 400 Baht. BF I forget but must have been cheap. However after that she was a hassle as was very hard to get rid of her. She would turn up uninvited.

I don't recall many girls performing badly back then but I did mostly bargirls and the odd Soapy like the Thermae or Darling, but no oily girls. Maybe Mona Lisa.

So the big difference was that 90 percent of girls fucked pretty good and LT was the norm for bargirls. BB was very common of course but not always. Aids was not heard of I believe.

Nana Hotel was no worse than it is now. Always a sleaze Hotel.

Western787

03-15-14, 08:20

Western787's post isn't serious, but a poor attempt at humor. He copied it from the Atlanta Hotel's website and replaced Atlanta's name with Nana. The problem with what Western787 posted is that it can be easily misunderstood as true (which happened to you and I'm sure others) and it gets repeated as true to others. I personally think that "humor" like this is somewhat malicious since it can cause harm to the Nana Hotel's business of catering to mongers.

The title is "Ballbusters future plans for Nana Hotel" and with the web site of Atlanta Hotel clearly listed below as sourcing my post.

Anyone able to read plain English knows its a joke, or anyone that RTFF as mere hours ago I was suggesting Nana Hotel to a monger looking for safety and convenience.

And i guess you're saying pet lovers and bible thumpers will now be booking Nana Hotel? and mongers will be avoiding it since it is now "wholesome and sleaze-free?" You've got to be kidding, right?

In any case to those that might be worried it might lose its reputation, I can personally vouch for the sleazy, sordid, hooker-friendly, and monger-favorable nature of Nana Hotel.

If that is insufficient, I have no problem with the post being deleted by the Admin

Kaintuck

03-15-14, 08:49

Western787's post isn't serious, but a poor attempt at humor. He copied it from the Atlanta Hotel's website and replaced Atlanta's name with Nana. The problem with what Western787 posted is that it can be easily misunderstood as true (which happened to you and I'm sure others) and it gets repeated as true to others. I personally think that "humor" like this is somewhat malicious since it can cause harm to the Nana Hotel's business of catering to mongers.Many thanks. Happy to know the venerable Nana hasn't changed its stripes. I may be wrong but think the Atlanta Hotel may have been part of the consortium of hotels that catered to American service men on R&R in Bangkok during the Vietnam war. The deal was that they could join the group by promising to offer $5 / night per room. 24 hour restaurant / bar, A / C, pool, and (most important) , a liberal guest policy. The Grace Hotel was in this group and was one of the few that was recommended for officers. How times have changed.

Syzygies

03-15-14, 09:17

The Grace Hotel was in this group and was one of the few that was recommended for officers. How times have changed.The Grace is now a Hotel for only if you are really desperate as for Nana, but for different reasons. Zenith Hotel, was another where a high percentage of guests were muslims and I was looked on as pariah I think. I had no problem with them but it looked like they thought I should not be there.

El Flaco

03-15-14, 09:18

Datebayo

03-15-14, 12:24

Is the 'Dream hotel' guest-friendly?

Syzygies

03-15-14, 13:33

The have seen worst. If you think that W787's postings (politically soaked ones aside) aren't funny, can you try making us laugh next time?Normally I am not keen on simple satire, irony or sarcasm, but this one was amusing. At least topical.

Of course I am not a sex tourist (only). I took GF, and 2 others from family to tropical Island Lipe for 4 days. Many Swedish girls there but most were a bit pudgy for my taste. The coral was good in several locations. Very nice place to holiday for those bored by Samui and Phuket.

Western787

03-15-14, 14:12

Perfect for the G clubs and Go Go's and within weeks very likely the hottest dance mix in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFV1NtDvuPo

Crocodilexp

03-15-14, 14:38

Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.It is not all relative. Just walk down lower Sukhumwit (from Soi 3 to Asoke, including Soi 4) and count the number of passable-looking freelancers. In 2008, there were many (I'd say 30-50 almost always) , these days you'd hardly count ten on a good night (and the best looking ones today are the better looking ones from 2008, only 6 years older). The bars (although not my favorite scene) haven't improved much. I have never heard anyone who's been around that things are more or less the same or better in agogos compared to 5 or 10 years ago. The managers are very loud in whining how recruiting even middling-looking girls is difficult now.

Pattaya is clearly better than Bangkok for mongering since about 2010, whereas before it was a bit of a wash (Bangkok having better looks and wider variety of venues, Pattaya having the sheer numbers and low prices).

You might be right that Bangkok might have world's best mongering scene among large cities, but only because the scene elsewhere started out inferior and is declining at a roughly similar rate.

Back in the 1950s-1980s, there were several new pussy paradises being discovered / created by Westerners and flourishing (briefly Korea and HK, then Philippines, Thailand) , then Eastern Europe in the early 1990s (quite briefly, though). But since about 2000 or so (almost 20 years now) , no place has emerged as a new destination for mongering, and the old places haven't gotten better. Could be various factors, globalization, mobile phones, whatever.

All eyes on Burma now... hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.

Western787

03-15-14, 15:01

You might be right that Bangkok might have world's best mongering scene among large cities, but only because the scene elsewhere started out inferior and is declining at a roughly similar rate.

Back in the 1950s-1980s, there were several new pussy paradises being discovered / created by Westerners and flourishing (briefly Korea and HK, then Philippines, Thailand) , then Eastern Europe in the early 1990s (quite briefly, though). But since about 2000 or so (almost 20 years now) , no place has emerged as a new destination for mongering, and the old places haven't gotten better. Could be various factors, globalization, mobile phones, whatever.

All eyes on Burma now. Hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.I believe all these paradises depended upon sellers in effect mispricing services due in part to high barriers to communication much beyond their village or city. Vs today where for example Burmese 18+ beauties (despite 3rd world status of Burma) are not going to misprice in a similar way. Paradise in its idealize version typically IMHO would be where there is an abundant supply of beautiful and charming females, but don't quite seem to know it yet, and price accordingly.

True, nearly all the major P4P markets across the world seem to on the downslope either due to economic growth, cell phones, NGO's, LE crackdowns and of course the rlentless underlying mega trend - globalization itself

Western787

03-15-14, 15:11

It is not all relative. Just walk down lower Sukhumwit (from Soi 3 to Asoke, including Soi 4) and count the number of passable-looking freelancers. In 2008, there were many (I'd say 30-50 almost always) , these days you'd hardly count ten on a good night (and the best looking ones today are the better looking ones from 2008, only 6 years older). The bars (although not my favorite scene) haven't improved much. I have never heard anyone who's been around that things are more or less the same or better in agogos compared to 5 or 10 years ago. The managers are very loud in whining how recruiting even middling-looking girls is difficult now.I heard not many years ago when the Nana Go Go's closed each night, many of the girls would just move to Nana Parking Lot. Plus Soi 4 itself would have much larger crowds for example at 2 to 3 AM than now, even filling up the Nana Hotel restaurant late at night. Have you heard of that?

SirWilliam4

03-15-14, 15:24

Is the 'Dream hotel' guest-friendly?Yes. Definitely.

SW

Western787

03-15-14, 15:38

stunners? i've seen these, very few are stunners! god did not make that many stunners and i find it hard to believe, a real stunner is going to work for so little money as paid to shopping center pitchwomans.

i wonder if agogo girls avoid eye contact because they don't want unsolicited sexual advances too. lol.the money may not be that low, especially if the hiring-vendor has to pull them out of an agency to get the quality and poise he wants. often times they are road show type teams making many visits to many malls on different days, expecially with very large product rollouts. and one show right before chinese new year at terminal 21 and they were introducing some kind of new modeling / beauty magazine or something, and they had 4 girls alternating speaking downstairs in the rotunda (on lower level food court) and each one was flat out drop dead beautiful, absolute stunners by any definition.. and they didn't have to do like a one hour near continuous speech typical of many spokemodels. it was approx 15 minutes each or so and rotating. my guess is they were being paid model level rates.

spokesmodels can vary in looks but i have rarely seen one below 8 level.

no need to wonder on go go's, you stated it correctly but just from a different angle. go go dancers do in fact among other things use the faint (fake) smile brief eye contact method of signaling barfine prospects, but of course 90% of guys would typically be acceptable. the exception being i think japanese who can just pick out any dancer they want to barfine w/ o any contact. another likely exception is when the mamasans (like the aggressive ones in rainbow 1) do the point to customer / then point to dancer / then gyrate their hips thing, generally the dancer is going along, but the problem is one doesn't quite get the vibe independent of the mamasan's sales job, so i think is riskier than normal

Kerrstar

03-15-14, 16:23

the money may not be that low, especially if the hiring-vendor has to pull them out of an agency to get the quality and poise he wants. often times they are road show type teams making many visits to many malls on different days, expecially with very large product rollouts. and one show right before chinese new year at terminal 21 and they were introducing some kind of new modeling / beauty magazine or something, and they had 4 girls alternating speaking downstairs in the rotunda (on lower level food court) and each one was flat out drop dead beautiful, absolute stunners by any definition. and they didn't have to do like a one hour near continuous speech typical of many spokemodels. it was approx 15 minutes each or so and rotating. my guess is they were being paid model level rates.i remember going back about 10 12 years ago i used to know one of the guinness girls from an irish bar just of sathorn road, the opposite site of patpong. can't even remember the name of the bar now but it's changed names several times since. anyway, she worked about 4 or 5 nights a week, but longs hours and took in 16k a month. that was a lot of money back then so she didn't need to p4p. never did manage to nail her.

Duniawala

03-15-14, 16:35

Does this sort of thing happen much?

I am walking along Suk Soi 19 late last night. I pass a short semi-dumpy woman with some grey hair, maybe 50 to 60 years old. I'm 57 but probably look about 50.

She says hello in a kurt voice with an Eartha Kit tone. I turn toward her a little expecting her to ask directions to where something is. She just says "2000" (in English) then after a very brief pause (no more than 1 second) , perhaps sensing I'm stunned, says "200 massage". I just continue on my way with no response.

I would not really even consider doing her, if was a freebie, as I am heading back to 35 year old GF who still has a fabulously sexy tight body, and I don't really like true Thai massage at all. I have been far to spoiled, associating with young ladies, even when I have to pay. I could easily do an older lady of 40 to 45 if she was in good shape and still a hottie I guess. This woman was really just far too ordinary. I guess many guys are married to some ordinary woman like this.Good God! It must have been a traumatizing experience. OTOH, old frumpy and dumpy women need love too. :-)

Kerrstar

03-15-14, 16:37

It is not all relative.

All eyes on Burma now. Hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.Totally agree! I've been in and out of Thailand for around 8-odd years and I think the quality has gone down hill. Years ago I used to drink / monger around Patpong, a mate used to live nearby so free accommodation, but now I mainly stick to Cowboy. I've noticed that the quality of the girls overall has generally decreased, especially in the past 18 months or so. Still some good lookers around but the average bar girls seems to be getting plumpier every visit.

Can't give you an update on Yangon but I con on Nay Pyi Taw, the capital, which is where I'm now living. Not a thing happening here. Asked one of our drivers if there were any girls at the KTV bar, once I managed to find one, and got a very curt no! He didn't seem impressed that I asked, maybe his sister works there?

On another note, all the political problems have driven down hotel prices, I'm in Bangkok for 1 night at the end of April and got the Hyatt for 4, 600 baht. I know I can get cheaper elsewhere but I'm a platinum member with them and as my flight lands at 8 am they will let me check in early. Got an email from the Westin in Suk advertising rooms starting from 3k as well.

El Frances

03-15-14, 16:55

Good God! It must have been a traumatizing experience. OTOH, old frumpy and dumpy women need love too. :-)Probably the old one who used to hang on in Thermae.

Mackin

03-15-14, 17:21

Hiihii

03-15-14, 18:20

Looks like high season has hit Nana plaza. If mamasans saying they having a hard time recruiting hot girls then there you have it- I'm reporting as I see it! Theres soem NEW very mediocre Rainbow 4 girls-if anyone cares to take a look. LOL.

Kaintuck

03-15-14, 18:58

As I read the forum today it is amusing to see all the griping about the girls not being as good looking or charging higher prices. Lets put the shoe on the other foot and see if it fits. Twenty years ago many good looking women and young girls out on the street and now only a few. That means you might have been there.!!!Think how they feel."Look, another one of those old guys who were here 20 years ago"." Not as good looking as they were before". ' "Not many to be choosy about going with." "I need the money so I will do it quickly and hopefully with my eyes closed." Complain as we do there is always the side of the story. Just pick what you like and enjoy yourself. Thankfully there are different flavors out there. Your 8 is my 5 and my 6 is your 2. Life will go on, just don't miss the boatWell put. About twenty years ago when I was living in Bangkok I used to play golf on Sundays with a bunch of friends. One of these was an older gent who had an affinity for the Toy Bar on Soi Cowboy. So after a round of golf and a bowl of noodles we would head for the Toy Bar. There wasn't much action on a Sunday afternoon and when we got there the bar was empty of clients but full of nubile Siamese girls. Seeing out friend, the first thing they did was lock the door. Next they all took off all their clothes. And the party started. A few years ago I was in Bangkok with a client and after an excellent Vietnamese meal at Le Dalat on soi 23 we walked over to soi Cowboy. The place was jumping and we ordered beers. I was telling my friend about what happened on Sundays in the old days. He seemed skeptical until the mama-san interrupted. She said I was telling the truth and added,"I was one of the girls". She then bought me a drink, my first (and last) from a mama-san.

11Bravo

03-15-14, 19:43

I've always enjoyed Soi 7's Bier Garten, the potential, the anticipation, though the delivery can fall a bit short.

Stopped by for a quick drink before a trip across town to pick up a visa. Across the bar, spied a real Beauty. Eye contact, my smile got a BIG smile in return (standard BG SOP) , she sitting and chatting with a gf. Of a quality that she doesn't move: the moths visit the flame, the flame does not visit the moths. Given my imminent departure, didn't bother going over, giving her a smile and shrug as I departed.

2 hours later, visa in hand, contemplated a SOL visit, but with the bright Flame still in short term memory, decided to revisit the BG. Quick pass, no obvious targets, so stepped outside to give Addicts MP a call. Requested my POC (provider of choice) , but got the dreaded "She on holiday" which can mean anything from her monthly holiday to she's moved to a different MP and is no longer here but we're not telling anyone. "Have many other ladies, you come, see." Yes they do, but, for an unknown, many other places to see: Bamboo, Mango, Tulip, Annie's...

Decide to go back in to BG, have a drink, and ponder my choices. Take a seat on far wall so clear view of entrance. Turn to my left, and who do I spot: Flame herself, sitting in the very SAME spot; gf gone but gf's purse still there. Make a note to have my surveillance radar checked; maybe it IS time to always wear my driving glasses. Given she's in the EXACT same spot, I'm thinking business might not be so good. Get the smile, so the moth moves to the flame. Up close, looks just as bright as from afar. Diamonds can be found in the BG.

Exchange the world-wide wg littany (what's your name?, where you come from?, how long you stay fill in city name here?) Few other pleasantries. She acknowledges she drinks and waits, the alcohol dulling the boredom. Hey, I'm a gentleman, always willing to help a lady overcome boredom. Bit surprised she says she's 37; some Thai's certainly age well. Beauty AND experience; definitely a sparkler. She then throws me, telling me to point out any girl I want, she knows all, and she'll have her come over. I tell her I AM talking to the girl I want (I'm a big boy, don't need any intermediaries.) OK, that clarified. I ask if she knows a ST hotel (while, years ago, the Penthouse or the Playboy seemed the BG's wg's hotels of choice, heard one torn down, don't know the status of the other). She gives a BIG smile, saying ST no problem, "I make you happy". Fine, but as Ronnie Reagan said, "Trust but verify". She finishes her beer (good sign) , and my drink is almost finished as well. A few contract details, and we should be out the door...

"You buy me beer?" Hmmm, maybe not. Umpire calls Strike 1. For me, the BG is a means to an end, not the end itself. I don't come here for the stimulating conversation; other stimulations in mind. I ignore the question; time's a wasting. Seems in BOTH parties' interest to seal the deal and be on our way to take care of the primary reason to visit the BG; I have other places to be, she can return for the double header.

I provide contract specs: 2 hours, 2 shots; 1 oral, 1 screw. Oops, she tells me she drinks only water and beer. So much for my happiness. Diamond beginning to show its flaws. Starting to wish I had stopped at the SOL first. Umpire calls Strike 2.

She specifies her specs: 1 hour, 1 shot (sure whichever comes first.) With a SOL visit, that might have been an outside possibility, but... Umpire calls Strike 3, you're OUT , diamond turning to coal.

Ever the optimist, she repeats her "You buy me beer? You tell her [the waitress]." I'm busy looking around, trying to catch my reflection; is there really "Stupid" stamped on my forehead? Yes, she's a beauty, and it's only a 100 baht, but looking can be done anywhere; this is Thailand. I give her a simple "my ow kap, chok dee."
It's really amazing to see the wg switch at work. I INSTANTLY go from an (obvious} low priority target to clutter. No counter offer, no continued marketing; I'm now in the invisible universe. Her gf returns and they continue their conversation, waiting for other moths to appear. Likewise, I do the same, looking for other flames

11Bravo

03-15-14, 19:58

My temporary blindness from Flame is starting to recede. Turn to my right, and 2 stools over, what appears to be another flickering flame; flickering as I'm looking into the window light and eyes trouble adjusting. Gentleman sitting next to her, but she seems unattached. Eyes meet, get a nice smile. Don't want to step on any toes, so I wait to see if there's a done deal, also allowing my eyes to adjust to the light. Not QUITE as nice a face, but definitely a better body. Nice cleavage, big enough to show there's something there, not padding, yet not big enough to be doctored.

Welcoming smile, so I break out my assembly code and SR1 (shift right 1). She's waiting for a gf who hasn't shown up yet. When? Don't know, she has a client. Even though I know the answer, ask if she's only waiting. No, she too is looking for some business, even with both a coffee and a drink in front of her.

She's more hand's on marketing, feeling my thigh, asking me if I like massage. I answer with the ole "only massage?", and she acknowledges the obvious "and sex". She might not be THE Flame, but certainly a flame, and with a much BETTER attitude. Gentleman says something to her, then departs.

She too knows a short time hotel, and the proposal of 2 hours, oral shot, massage, sex, pay after, NOT a problem. Asks for 2000; not worth my time to try and lower price. I ask for my bill, and tell the waitress to include hers. Unnecessary, seems it's already been covered. Thanks, Unknown Gentleman.

Me, I kind of miss the seediness of the ole Playboy or Penthouse places, they with their car port curtains. Seems now the ST hotel of choice is the World Inn on Soi 7/1. Given they also sell condoms, no need to stop at Soi 9's 7/11. I'm told the price for a room is 300, but when the adding machine is done, it's 640 baht. I question, but my error is quickly pointed out: it's 300 PER HOUR, and I've requested 2 hours, the additional 40 baht I'll assume is for the condoms. That's another unwelcome difference: at the Playboy or Penthouse, it was 300 for 2 or 3 hours. Modern times, so pay, and up we go.

Decent room for ST; the a/c works :) as does the TV :( both IMMEDIATELY switched on. Don't bother to protest. She readily strips off, and her body is as nice as I'd imagined. The bathroom, unlike the Playboy or Penthouse, has no tub, simply a hose and heater attached to a wall in the corner. Fine for the purposes at hand, but I do miss those old ST hotels (and no sex chair either). I also flashback to Addict massage. They have a much nicer room, especially if you opt for a tub.

Quick shower, she cleaning me in all the right places. Return to the bed, I'm visibly ready, and before I know, she's got a condom on, with a "now I suck." Oops, MY error; make a mental note to add BBBJ to a proposal. Thing is, a CBJ will take me a LONG time to achieve a goal, but, bless her heart, she works away with a combination of mouth, tongue, and some great visuals. She asks if I want to screw, and that is a possibility as I'm beginning to lose interest, but I decide to take an alternate route to the desired destination: she's legit enough to provide Russian without a problem, though after arriving, she does slightly complain that now she'll have to wash her hair.

Both cleaned up, she starts to watch the Thai soap. I mention "massage?", and she jumps right to work, bringing back memories of certain PRC massages in Dubai. Unfortunately, they aren't good memories, along the lines of 2 minutes back, 2 minutes legs, 1 minute front, and done. I also flashback to last week's Addict's massage: there, at least with my chosen one, BBBJ seemingly to be a given, and, between rounds, a decent massage.

After another 5 minutes, she begins a hand massage, asking me if I will wake up for a 2nd round. 2 DECADES ago, a silly question, but now... I point out we have 2 HOURS, and it's only been 30 minutes. But she continues her efforts, a bit to my amusement. I'm thinking she might have to reset her standard clock. Like I say, at the MP, the girl really knew how to allocate the time.

But, I'll be damned, her labors are beginning to bear fruit. She seizes the opportunity, and says she'll slip on the other condom. I'm a bit leery, mentioning I'm not fully awake yet, and, high school lessons BURNED into my brain, know how difficult it is to put on that ONE unrolled condom. DON'T want to have to venture down to the front desk to get another, though, in hindsight, that might have increased my stature with the staff. Pro that she is, she continues, some more oral, which is defeating HER purpose, but she rolls over on her back, spreading her legs (perhaps not a 180, but very much an obtuse angle, providing a most stimulating view) and gives the time honored call to the hunt, "you f*ck me now".

Number of positions, no complaints from her, and even with the a/c on, am dripping sweat, the intellectual part of my brain knowing that my cardiologist will be pleased with my exercise. Her sound effects fake, but not overly so, subdued enough to be stimulating rather than off-putting. NO "finish now" calls. The intellect recedes, primal forces emerge, and contract complete.

She quickly jumps up, returns from the bathroom with paper to collect the condom, then quickly starts to dress. Hmmm, unlike the MP, no "One more?" flirtatious questions... And unlike the MP, no "shower show" as I'm laying there relaxed in the last 15 minutes.

Fine. Take a look at my watch. WTF? Well, ONE of us needs to readjust their clock; it's just over an hour. I do admire her work, and am a bit amazed, though I will admit, chemicals were involved. Good enough, fits my Cinderella Liberty, and I know better to ask for a refund from the hotel. Just make a mental note to book an hour; if more time required, they can call and send someone up for the next hour's payment.

Point: You can still find some gems at the BG.

For a limited time, these days, all prices included, an MP just might be a better bet. Or spend longer on BG negotiations.

BG still provides some decent entertainment. No guarantees, but, actually, that's one thing I like about it.

Western787

03-15-14, 20:26

I've always enjoyed Soi 7's Bier Garten, the potential, the anticipation, though the delivery Can fall a bit short.

Stopped by for a quick drink before a trip across town to pick up a visa. Across the bar, spied a real Beauty. Eye contact, my smile got a BIG smile in return (standard BG SOP) , she sitting and chatting with a gf. Of a quality that she doesn't move: the moths visit the flame, the flame does not visit the moths. Given my imminent departure, didn't bother going over, giving her a smile and shrug as I departed.

2 hours later, visa in hand, contemplated a SOL visit, but with the bright Flame Still in short term memory, decided to revisit the BG. Quick pass, no obvious targets, so stepped outside to give Addicts MP a call. Requested my POC (provider of choice) , but got the dreaded "She on holiday" which can mean anything from her monthly Holiday to she's moved to a different MP and is no longer here but we're not telling anyone."Have many other ladies, you come, see." Yes they do, but, for an unknown, many other places to see: Bamboo, Mango, Tulip, Annie's.

Decide to go back in to BG, have a drink, and ponder my choices. Take a seat on far wall so clear view of entrance. Turn to my left, and who do I spot: Flame Herself, sitting in the very SAME spot; gf gone but gf's purse still there. Make a note to have my surveillance radar checked; maybe it IS time to always wear my driving glasses. Given she's in the EXACT same spot, I'm thinking business might not be so good. Get the smile, so the moth moves to the flame. Up close, looks just as bright As from afar. Diamonds can be found in the BG.

Exchange the world-wide wg littany (what's your name, where you come from, how long you stay fill in city name here?) Few other pleasantries. She acknowledges she drinks and waits, the alcohol dulling the boredom. Hey, I'm a gentleman, always willing to help a lady overcome boredom. Bit surprised she says she's 37; some Thai's certainly age well. Beauty AND experience; definitely a sparkler. She then throws me, telling me to point out any girl I want, she knows all, and she'll have her come over. I tell her I AM Talking to the girl I want (I'm a big boy, don't need any intermediaries.) OK, that clarified. I ask if she knows a ST hotel (while, years ago, the Penthouse or the Playboy seemed the BG's wg's hotels of choice, heard one torn down, don't know the status of the other). She gives a BIG smile, saying ST no problem,"I make you happy". Fine, but as Ronnie Reagan said,"Trust but verify". She finishes her beer (good sign) , and my drink is almost finished as well. A few contract details, and we should be out the door.

"You buy me beer?" Hmmm, maybe not. Umpire calls Strike 1. For me, the BG is a means To an end, not the end itself. I don't come here for the stimulating conversation; other stimulations In mind. I ignore the question; time's a wasting. Seems in BOTH parties' interest to seal the deal and be on our way to take care of the primary Reason to visit the BG; I have other places to be, she can return for the double header.

I provide contract specs: 2 hours. 2 shots; 1 oral. 1 screw. Oops, she tells me she drinks only water and beer. So much for my happiness. Diamond beginning to show its flaws. Starting to wish I had stopped at the SOL first. Umpire calls Strike 2.

She specifies her specs: 1 hour. 1 shot (sure whichever comes First.) With a SOL visit, that might have been an outside Possibility, but. Umpire calls Strike 3, you're OUT , diamond turning to coal.

Ever the optimist, she repeats her "You buy me beer? You tell her [the waitress]." I'm busy looking around, trying to catch my reflection; is there really "Stupid" stamped on my forehead? Yes, she's a beauty, and it's only a 100 baht, but looking can be done anywhere; this is Thailand. I give her a simple "my ow kap, chok dee."

It's really amazing to see the wg switch At work. I INSTANTLY go from an (obvious} low priority target to clutter. No counter offer, no continued marketing; I'm now in the invisible universe. Her gf returns and they continue their conversation, waiting for other moths to appear. Likewise, I do the same, looking for other flamesFar wall? With clear view of entrance? I assume you couldn't mean back wall?. You must mean left side? Extended wall? Beer Garden beauty in her 30"s? And a regular who sits in one place? There are others kind of fitting that description but is this lady slender, very fine facial features, very elegant and stylish? 5-5? Pretty with long dark hair? And slightly exotic? If so, sounds like Miss M, and she mostly sits on left side 3/4th the way down, but will sometimes have you buy wine, so perhaps a different lady. If it is Miss M, IMHO she's looking for a permanent OTC, like with a ring. And seems to somewhat avoid the quick hit types, more into the conversationalist longer term types.

If its someone else, what does she look like?

El Flaco

03-15-14, 21:16

Syzygies

03-15-14, 22:11

Started at Crazy House before it got too busy. Bought drinks for two girls (friends) who started only this Sat night. One had a cute face (Yui 24) and the other had a cute ass (Noi 2). Neither had the total package. I am enjoying the naked girls with shave pussies showing it all and few girls there have any operations. This bar is getting more and more popular as girls looks are a cut above other bars.

Went to Baccara looking for my buddy. Turns out he had recently left there to go to Rainbow 2. Boy, are the girls in there ugly! I mean relatively plain girls get a nose job, tit job, eye job, jaw job, and cheek job, and supposedly they are now beautiful with light skin. Half of them look similar to the lady boys across the way in Cockatoo. Okay one or two of the lady boys are actually better looking. Makes me think of the good old days 25 years ago when very few girls had any Ops at all.

However I talked to a very non typical Baccara girl working outside. No Ops, small face, brownish skin. Miaow is the name. Eventually go ST with her and she has very smooth skin and a very tight pussy. She comes after barely 3 mins of DATY, and says that not many customers are lick / sucking her out like that. Not sure about a repeat as pussy a bit small for me.

Decide to check out Cowboy 2 coyote bar. Turns out it is the only busy coyote bar and doesn't belong to the "Arab". I guess the others like Deja Vu, Midnight, Rio, Sahara, Spice Girls, all are his bars. Coyote girls at Cowboy 2 can be barfined at 2000 Baht (unlike most Coyote bars). I guess their ST fee is very steep too, possibly asking for 5K to 6K (yow) but I don't know what price is realistic after a negotiation. You can't really negotiate a price if you don't intend to buy. Bought drinks for Cat and Ploy. Lady drinks were 200. One of them previously worked at Deja Vu but said the manager there was a real idiot. In the past I have done girls at Deja Vu and Midnight but not sure if they were Arab bars at the time. I decided not to Spend a lot of money to find out if any were a good fuck at Cowboy 2 since, can get just as good looking girls elsewhere like Crazy House or even Long Gun. A few Cowboy 2 girls had nose jobs or tit jobs. In any case got a nice GF fuck today, so just one P4P girl was enough.

Syzygies

03-15-14, 22:26

Well put. About twenty years ago when I was living in Bangkok I used to play golf on Sundays with a bunch of friends. One of these was an older gent who had an affinity for the Toy Bar on Soi Cowboy. So after a round of golf and a bowl of noodles we would head for the Toy Bar. There wasn't much action on a Sunday afternoon and when we got there the bar was empty of clients but full of nubile Siamese girls. Seeing out friend, the first thing they did was lock the door. Next they all took off all their clothes. And the party started. A few years ago I was in Bangkok with a client and after an excellent Vietnamese meal at Le Dalat on soi 23 we walked over to soi Cowboy. The place was jumping and we ordered beers. I was telling my friend about what happened on Sundays in the old days. He seemed skeptical until the mama-san interrupted. She said I was telling the truth and added,"I was one of the girls". She then bought me a drink, my first (and last) from a mama-san.The Kangaroo bar (Patpong) was a very quiet place at lunch times 20 to 25 years ago. I could go there and molest several girls. They did not seem to be shy about sucking cock, having their pants pulled down and pussy licked and probed in the bar, but for some strange reason wanted to go the back room to actually fuck, even though they would put on fucking shows at night. Could take multiple girls to the back room and fuck them all. The girl working behind the bar as cashier and mixing drinks was available for sex too. I still remember one girl with mammoth natural tits who was like a doll and wasn't very fat at all. Maybe some girls had a boyfriend working as the doorman there and that made them shy to fuck with everyone watching.

Of course fucking in the bar at SOL is quite normal.

I haven't been to Toy Bar more than once, and was a long while ago, but seem to remember there was no charge for BJ and girl groping as long as kept buying them drinks.

BionicMan

03-15-14, 22:29

I've always enjoyed Soi 7's Bier Garten, the potential, the anticipation, though the delivery Can fall a bit short.

Ever the optimist, she repeats her "You buy me beer? You tell her [the waitress]." I'm busy looking around, trying to catch my reflection; is there really "Stupid" stamped on my forehead? Yes, she's a beauty, and it's only a 100 baht, but looking can be done anywhere; this is Thailand. I give her a simple "my ow kap, chok dee."[/list]

It's really amazing to see the wg switch At work. I INSTANTLY go from an (obvious} low priority target to clutter. No counter offer, no continued marketing; I'm now in the invisible universe. Her gf returns and they continue their conversation, waiting for other moths to appear. Likewise, I do the same, looking for other flamesGreat report.

She might have her "terms and conditions" but it seems that at her terms she is not putting together much business.

Is maybe a punter a day (1000b.) sufficient for her finance? And spend the rest of the day chatting with friends hoping some moth pays her the drinks to keep her seat at BG?

With the remote possi bility of scoring another quickie and double the earnings?

Is she having a cut from the girls she pimps (well. Pimping is an overstatement in BG, there is no need of a pimp there, and 95% of the punters are well experienced ones who knows the game)?

Paul Kausch

03-15-14, 23:58

It is not all relative. Just walk down lower Sukhumwit (from Soi 3 to Asoke, including Soi 4) and count the number of passable-looking freelancers.

Pattaya is clearly better than Bangkok for mongering since about 2010, whereas before it was a bit of a wash (Bangkok having better looks and wider variety of venues, Pattaya having the sheer numbers and low prices).

You might be right that Bangkok might have world's best mongering scene among large cities, but only because the scene elsewhere started out inferior and is declining at a roughly similar rate.

No place has emerged as a new destination for mongering, and the old places haven't gotten better. Could be various factors, globalization, mobile phones, whatever.

All eyes on Burma now. Hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.Croc, I'm not qualified to comment on FLs. I mostly go to MPs, take MP girls on overnight outcalls or book escorts. I can find ladies in the MPs whom I'm happy with (maybe I just have low standards - haha); and I find good escorts at very reasonable prices are plentiful in Bangkok, though I think in most cases the MP girls are as good as all but the best escorts, and they're less expensive. I think there is general agreement that there are fewer attractive sex workers in Thailand than 10 years ago.

I agree with your evaluation of Pattaya. If one is only interested in mongering and looking for maximum bang for the buck, Pattaya is better. I prefer Bangkok because of all the other stuff that can be found there.

For a location to have a thriving P4P industry you need a lot of young women with no better alternative than to get paid to fuck men, some of whom may be rude, overweight and smelly. ;) As Billy Kwan said in the Year of Living Dangerously,"Starvation is a powerful aphrodisiac".

When poor women in developing countries start to make a little money they use it to better feed their children; find a better house to live in; look for educational opportunities for their children; and then they start to limit the number of children they have. They quickly figure out fewer children are better. So a global rise in the standard of living and better population control are a monger's worst enemies.

11Bravo

03-16-14, 05:31

I've really liked your spin. It tells that no matter how much you know already, you can still present the best of you to any situation, keep looking and keep enjoying whatever can be had.

At times, after having meet some characters similar to the ones in your story, I get to think that is nota big deal and dismiss the story in few lines, if any. That is wrong, any story can be entertraining when narrated properly as you did.Thanks. Anyone who's been to the Bier Garten has experienced the same, and I figure that most guys know what to do when they get to the hotel, where to put it, etc., so try to provide a bit of color while describing the scene and common happenings.

Went to Baccara looking for my buddy. Turns out he had recently left there to go to Rainbow 2. Boy, are the girls in there ugly! I mean relatively plain girls get a nose job, tit job, eye job, jaw job, and cheek job, and supposedly they are now beautiful with light skin. Makes me think of the good old days 25 years ago when very few girls had any Ops at all.Agreed. I'll take a natural girl over a doctored one any day. But perhaps only ourselves to blame. If a girl sees a doctored girl gaining an advantage, might feel also needs surgery to even the playing field...

Jungle_Bunny

03-16-14, 05:45

Gentlemen!

5 pages of political commentary, how about back to the main top of Intl SEX GUIDE.

Here is my 2 cents worth. In town for 2 nights. Friday night scene at the Thermae.

Nice mix of English speaking Farang, French / Italians and wow, an influx of Koreans and lots of Japanese. The JPs looked fairly young and are either working men tourists or perhaps someone that lives here. After all, a Japanese salary man would never be caught dead in a girlie bar in shorts and t-shirt. The young Koreans are mostly lookers and gawkers, shy to talk to the girls and kept to them selves. The Singaporeans seemed the most at ease and understood the game. A few old cynical Thai hands but all contribute to the vibe.

Lots of talent standing around. A few real stunners (9+) with attitudes but a lot of 6-8s that were friendly, chatty and reasonable. The market survey ranged from B1500-2500 (about US$ 50-80). The nice thing about the Thermae, at least based on reputation. No Lady Boys allowed. I've heard it both ways on the post ops, but that's another story.

A lot of girls were there after their day jobs, it seems to be a known spot for the ladies and a chance to catch a diamond in the rough or the occasional surprise for the punter.

Call me dense, but for rental, I'd rather have one that looked good enough but willing to go the extra mile than a drop dead gorgeous star fish.

I found me a pair that seemed to get along. We had a few drinks and agreed that I would settle on a choice. They both knew the game. I was supposed to pick one but just ONE. This kept the game competitive. I made them whisper terms and pricing in my ear, a la "dating game" style. We kept it light fun and non-committal. I then introduced an element that there was a wild card. Another hottie was making eye contact after these two didn't appear to close the trade immediately. I got propositioned on the way to the head by a very skilled almost pro. She wanted 2k. Pass, I was having fun just seeing where the night goes.

Keep in kind, I am no Brad Pitt. Just an average bloke, late 40s early 50s, like 70% of the bar.

Back to the two at the table. One was a 7 with a full back tatoo (not my thing, but man was she flirty and just cute as a button. Like something out of a Japanese anime cartoon) , the other had a very stout stocky body with a booty ass and real nice knockers, she promised unlimited activities even in a short term. Such a hard process to choose.

I guess this is the problem with Thai girls. They are small. So take 2 if you can.

Anyway, they are asking if I want short time or long time. Now, this is where I maybe born at night, but not last night. The usual trap here. Punters dilemma. Say short time and they are setting up with the girl friends for an after hours hunt. Say long time, and they get the inevitable phone call 75 min in with an emergency after you've paid them.

Ahhhhhh, Thailand, the land of smiles or was it scams. (One night in Bangkok going in my head)

I told them I could not make up my mind and was about to call it a night. I gave them each few hundred baht for a thank you cab fare (yes, I know it doesn't cost the locals that much, but hey it's like US$7, bar tip / tea money). They both jumped and asked if I was going with the hottie from across the bar (who wanted to horn in) , I said no, told them they were both so nice and I just not bear the thought of disappointing either one, that said, it was time for the hotel.

They offered to both go for ST at B1500 with an option to extend one girl for LT at 1000 more (2500 LT) Sort of trial to see who was better at my pleasure. So we head to the hotel, both girls are damn near giddy to be chosen. We get to the hotel (Dream, behind Robinsons Dept Store. Very G-friendly, yet discrete, classy and frequented by local Thais on business.). I tip the front desk 100 and ask they keep the girls ID. (It's SOP now, but the desk clerks really take good care with a small incentive)

We get to the room, no mention of money. I ask to put their cell phones with mine in the safe. OK, no hassles. We get to a 3 some vertical soapy scrub. Dream has a big standup glass door shower, no tub! 15 minutes of good scrub and tub, BBBJ from both as a warm up. A little cock on the ass play of the booty butt, the Jap anime is more protective of her ass, she is convinced in the end to allow a little play, just could not convert her to a level service. (Not really intended since there were no condoms in the shower).

Funny thing is the girls would not do lesbian kissing, hard rimming or a-level anal, but pretty much everything else is game. Multiple positions, switch outs, more mouth on cock play, the stocky one got really wet and came. The anime was being a little lazy, so I ate her while the big one was riding cow girl. Damn, I almost got them to kiss when they were sucking my fingers. The anime is hot now, so I started to fuck her hard. Pulled her legs up around her shoulders, she starts to fake moan. I fold her over on the side and pound the flesh. The fake moaning stops and she's holding her voice almost a weird grunt. I pound harder and harder. She let's out a deep groan and pulls the pillow over her head. The groans continue and she's screams a muffled, finish now, finish now. The other one rolls over, spread eagle and says do me, finish inside me. (Oh, I forgot to tell, I promised a B1000 bonus to the one that gets me to cum, trying to keep the game interesting). I roll the anime over on her knees, pound to almost and take it out. She looks over and it's like WTF? I am trying to get the stocky one on her knees to do both in simultaneous doggie style in a back and forth.

The anime has other ideas, she strips off the condom and starts to suck my rod. Damn, it took all my control not to just unload it then and there. The stocky one jumps up and starts tongue on nipple action then pushes the anime out of the way for some hard ball sucking and hand on shaft drive. The anime sticks her tongue on the tip of my cock and both are working hard. I roll over and hold both girls tightly, then proceed to shoot my load on both their faces. A little extra conditioner for the beautiful black hairs on their heads.

They wipe, we rest and cuddle, it's now 2:15 into the session. The girls want to know who will be kept LT, I keep the suspense on until a about of consciousness tells me a.) I really need some sleep. B.) they need to go on and do what they do at almost 3am.

Called down stairs after giving back their phones.

In the end, I give them both B2500, the shooter bonus + ST, they already has B200 can fare and parted a pair of happy hookers!

I figured it was comparable to Eden with a pair of semi-pros. Good change of pace.

IamJohnGalt

03-16-14, 06:21

Just a comment on cosmetic enhancements. Met a lovely gal in Thermae when visiting Bangkok about 9 months ago. Attractive face and knockout natural body from Issan in early 20s. Not GFE (no kissing, cuddling) My only complaint is she has no interest in LT although I keep on offering. Saw her again 2 days ago and still looking great. She insists that she needs to make her nose bigger like westerners and claims to be saving for surgery. She has a lovely short nose that many western girls would love to have. IMO She should be spending for English lessons (or maybe to fix her teeth although not that bad to me) if she wants to be a better companion or to get a non-p4p career.

Women are, in some ways, the same the world over.

11Bravo

03-16-14, 06:31

Far wall? With clear view of entrance? I assume you couldn't mean back wall. You must mean left side? Extended wall? Beer Garden beauty in her 30"s? And a regular who sits in one place? There are others kind of fitting that description but is this lady slender, very fine facial features, very elegant and stylish? 5-5? Pretty with long dark hair? And slightly exotic? If so, sounds like Miss M, and she mostly sits on left side 3/4th the way down, but will sometimes have you buy wine, so perhaps a different lady. If it is Miss M, IMHO she's looking for a permanent OTC, like with a ring. And seems to somewhat avoid the quick hit types, more into the conversationalist longer term types.

If its someone else, what does she look like?Maybe the same, maybe "same same but different". Thai looks, done to perfection, in my eyes anyway.

Far wall. The long side of the bar, wall closest to Sukhumvit, parallel to it.

Certainly slender.

Very fine facial features, great complexion, or else she's an expert at applying makeup as it's not obvious. Would not call her exactly exotic, more a fine example of Thai looks.

Elegant and stylish, yes, without overdoing. Plain white blouse can look elegant on the right form. Could easily cross any hotel lobby, drawing looks for all the RIGHT reasons, without being obvious for her reason for being there.

Can't comment on height as didn't see her standing, nor stretched out, only sitting on a bar stool. :(

Below the shoulder hair, along the standard Thai style, serving VERY nicely to frame the face.

Sitting 3/4 of way down, towards Foodland end, inside the main bar area, not on the cashier's side.

At least on this day, definitely drinking beer. After I declined to provide additional liquid refreshments, at least those served by the bar, she ordered another round of beer for she and her gf, I being cautious enough to make sure it went on their tab, not mine (it did).

The English didn't come across as that great, but perhaps that was only the free sample, better quality requiring a paid liquid entrance fee.

While she did say she had no boyfriend (which I found hard to believe) , what else was she going to say? Permanent support perhaps her desired goal, after all, time is a-wasting, I just got the impression that, being the BG cream, she was looking for like in a business partner.

I caught the name as not quite "On", more an "Un".

Great report.

She might have her "terms and conditions" but it seems that at her terms she is not putting together much business.

Is maybe a punter a day (1000b.) sufficient for her finance? And spend the rest of the day chatting with friends hoping some moth pays her the drinks to keep her seat at BG? With the remote possibility of scoring another quickie and double the earnings?

Is she having a cut from the girls she pimps (well. Pimping is an overstatement in BG, there is no need of a pimp there, and 95% of the punters are well experienced ones who knows the game)?Thanks. Oh, I'm sure she's doing quite well, not exactly enthused with a small fish, simply biding her time to hook the one big one for the day. While she was willing to go for a quick ST for a quick score, I got the impression she was looking more for an evening's entertainment, though perhaps not a full night's one, with not all of said entertainment taking place in a hotel room.

I think a 1000 baht offer would only suffice to draw a look of SCORN, with the offer of "any girl" more a way to divert the actual business end to "anyone but her". I'm sure I didn't fit her desired profile of a "not old" guy, or at least an elegantly dressed one. But a QUICK 2k for QUICK, minimal work, why not?

To quote fellow member Sporadic, with some, it IS worth the price to see her hanging off your 'nard, but, in this case, I knew that after, I'd just be disappointed. While she would get me to the desired destination, it would be a direct, non-scenic route.

Syzygies

03-16-14, 07:05

I heard not many years ago when the Nana Go Go's closed each night, many of the girls would just move to Nana Parking Lot. Plus Soi 4 itself would have much larger crowds for example at 2 to 3 AM than now, even filling up the Nana Hotel restaurant late at night. Have you heard of that?On a recent pass of Nana car park, the. Numbers of girls was much lower than say 2008, ignoring the LBs, but standard of looks impressed me more than I ever saw before. I thought some were doable. Years ago I would always struggle to find anything although possible I was there at wrong time for best girls. Another possibility is business is down and more of the better lookers still available.

Western787

03-16-14, 07:24

Maybe the same, maybe "same same but different". Thai looks, done to perfection, in my eyes anyway.

Far wall. The long side of the bar, wall closest to Sukhumvit, parallel to it.

Certainly slender.

Very fine facial features, great complexion, or else she's an expert at applying makeup as it's not obvious. Would not call her exactly exotic, more a fine example of Thai looks.

Elegant and stylish, yes, without overdoing. Plain white blouse can look elegant on the right form. Could easily cross any hotel lobby, drawing looks for all the RIGHT reasons, without being obvious for her reason for being there.

Can't comment on height as didn't see her standing, nor stretched out, only sitting on a bar stool. .

Below the shoulder hair, along the standard Thai style, serving VERY nicely to frame the face.

Sitting 3/4 of way down, towards Foodland end, inside the main bar area, not on the cashier's side.

At least on this day, definitely drinking beer. After I declined to provide additional liquid refreshments, at least those served by the bar, she ordered another round of beer for she and her gf, I being cautious enough to make sure it went on their tab, not mine (it did).

The English didn't come across as that great, but perhaps that was only the free sample, better quality requiring a paid liquid entrance fee.

While she did say she had no boyfriend (which I found hard to believe) , what else was she going to say? Permanent support perhaps her desired goal, after all, time is a-wasting, I just got the impression that, being the BG cream, she was looking for like in a business Partner.

I caught the name as not quite "On", more an "Un".

Although the seating location is correct, I think I have a different lady "Mo" in mind. Even if she were seated, after just a quick glance most people would conclude she's on the tall side (actual height 5-5).

Beer Garden by keeping the music volume low (with a pretty good selection of pop songs also) is setup quite well for conversation. Even aside from the takeout issue, just the in-"club" experience can be very entertaining. One only need a pulse + a few bahts, as low as 50 to 60 bahts for a drink and you get among other things 1. Girls smiling at you 2. Girls pretending they are happy to see you 3. Sometimes sending signals from across the room. 4. All sorts of winks and nods and pointing. All with none of the ladydrink pressure of regular bar girls. Note even though its a pickup place, sometimes you can go hours and barely notice any guy walking out the door with a girl. Now that can sometimes be a quality issue, but other times its obvious customers either don't have the bahts or just want to hang and enjoy the experience. I've noticed many times reasonably hot girls just getting discouraged and walking out after an hour or two, when no fish are biting.

Syzygies

03-16-14, 07:30

Syzygies

03-17-14, 04:39

Chemistry can make a huge difference with bargirls.

Suzie Wong was very quiet last night. Bow, Dtom, Knot, Noi, Anne available and even the stunner Nu Dee. Nu Dee came to sit with me first and I could sense immediately that the chemistry was different. She actually wanted to kiss me. I had taken her before but the performance on the bed was lacklustre. She did not like me for some reason at the time. Because I normally took 2 girls, or because some other girl had warned her about me? Now she was acting very different and playing up to me. We did not negotiate a price.

So took her for a short time, and sure enough, her performance was really quite excellent this time, even if could not take that much in the BBBJ. Very good GFE and very enjoyable fuck in several positions. She admitted that she now knew I was a "good guy" customer, perhaps different to what she first thought.

Another girl in the bar,"Knot" has been reported to be crap by others, but is always enthusiastic and passionate with me. So the lesson is, if you want a good performance, make the girl have fun, be relaxed, and like you.

Interviewing the girl at length about what she will do, and the price is not something I do. I don't believe it will set the right mood. Having the right chemistry can be everything.

Syzygies

03-17-14, 05:09

I have never heard anyone who's been around that things are more or less the same or better in agogos compared to 5 or 10 years ago. The managers are very loud in whining how recruiting even middling-looking girls is difficult now.The looks of girls in the bars have not changed that much. If I look back to photos of girls I took years ago, they were no prettier than what I get now. Its just I was less fussy back then, so girls seemed very pretty compared to back home.

Walked around Chatuchak weekend market yesterday and only spotted 4 or 5 natural real stunning girls. I just so much more fussy than 20 years ago.

Okay Some degradation in looks due to stuff like nose jobs.

Crazy House is able to recruit good looking girls and has new girls starting every day. They simply pay above the average rates. This bar is getting very busy. 2nd floor is opening up most nights now. Doesn't mean all the girls perform though. There are some very nice sweet girls there and some horrors (be*ches).

I think what has changed is girls can be much more mercenary and less having good fun oriented than 20 years ago. Performance of the girls has probably suffered. You have to choose very carefully these days and check the chemistry. Oilies and Soapies seem may have more crap girls for performance than years ago.

11Bravo

03-17-14, 05:13

Although the seating location is correct, I think I have a different lady "Mo" in mind. Even if she were seated, after just a quick glance most people would conclude she's on the tall side (actual height 5-5).

Beer Garden by keeping the music volume low (with a pretty good selection of pop songs also) is setup quite well for conversation. Even aside from the takeout issue, just the in-"club" experience can be very entertaining. One only need a pulse + a few bahts, as low as 50 to 60 bahts for a drink and you get among other things 1. Girls smiling at you 2. Girls pretending they are happy to see you 3. Sometimes sending signals from across the room. 4. All sorts of winks and nods and pointing. All with none of the ladydrink pressure of regular bar girls. Note even though its a pickup place, sometimes you can go hours and barely notice any guy walking out the door with a girl. Now that can sometimes be a quality issue, but other times its obvious customers either don't have the bahts or just want to hang and enjoy the experience. I've noticed many times reasonably hot girls just getting discouraged and walking out after an hour or two, when no fish are biting.Agree on both points: sounds like a different lady.

I always enjoy the bier garten, nice place to pass an hour or two in the afternoon, having a couple of drinks (though the price of a lime juice is up to 75 baht, almost double of Foodland) , just watching the circus, and, on occasion, if someone compelling, off you go.

Skepti10

03-17-14, 05:18

Gentlemen!

5 pages of political commentary, how about back to the main top of Intl SEX GUIDE.

Here is my 2 cents worth. In town for 2 nights. Friday night scene at the Thermae.Its such a shame the previous posters haven't bothered to recognise this fantastic report! I love that you made it into a competition, and it seems you were well rewarded.

Bravo, keep on posting!

11Bravo

03-17-14, 05:27

After the disappointment of the Rose

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2493-Bangkok-Places-to-AVOID!&p=1544043&viewfull=1#post1544043

stopped by the Kangaroo. Weekday, 3PM. No carny barker at the bottom of the stairs. Bar deserted except for mamasan and 1 thin provider. Offered the bar's speciality, but declined, she having no attraction for me, simply settling for a beer and the a/c. Appreciated that after my initial declination, not bothered anymore.

During my 15 minute stay, taking refuge from the day's heat, another worker arrived, about equally spaced on the opposite side of average as the thin provider was on the other. She also attempted to elict some business, but no attraction for me, and again, once declined, did not bother further. I'm sure the 2 talked about the idiot falang who didn't seem to understand the bar's raison d'être.

While the bar's owners should appreciate the attempted upsell of the "back room", as the ONLY customer in the bar, if I was to partake, I wouldn't have appreciated the additional cost. Just points out the WINNING formula at the SOL: no extra charge for the room, and if occupied, or the customer uninterested, girls not shy about taking care of business in the bar itself.

Given the hour, can't say I was crushed, but, unlike previous years where even mid-afternoon, there was a selection of servers, seems these days, the decline in server numbers apparent. Seems like only the SOL has withstood the decline.

11Bravo

03-17-14, 06:08

Market report ThermaeGreat FR, well done and well played. Salute.

Syzygies

03-17-14, 06:21

Anyway, they are asking if I want short time or long time. Now, this is where I maybe born at night, but not last night. The usual trap here. Punters dilemma. Say short time and they are setting up with the girl friends for an after hours hunt. Say long time, and they get the inevitable phone call 75 min in with an emergency after you've paid them.There is no problem. You only pay at the end. You discuss the duration. If they have to leave early, you simply pay less.

The inevitable phone call 75 mins in is very rare in my experience, but occasionally happens girl is in a rush due to another appointment.

The most common problem is that my idea of LT is 8 hours where some girls think it is 4 hours. 4 hours is no use to me at all. Some girls need to leave by 5am. This needs to be checked first.

Syzygies

03-17-14, 08:17

Speaking of change, I would like to survey a couple if long term bargirls and ask how much the customers have changed. Are the aholes much more prevalent now?

As for prices 1500 has been the oily tip for many years. Back at the time of world stock market crash, sex actually got a lot cheaper due to greatly devalued Thai baht compared to my home currency. I remember I could get sex in CP2 Soapy for a 1000 tip 12 years ago but that was worth 1500 at today's exchange rate.

I think guys are complaining about change a little too much, and really need to consider a fair comparison.

Those that want a less developed country can go to Phnom Phen. I may take tour of Siem Riep this year with a hottie who speaks Cambodian fluently.

I guess it was much more normal to take girls for several days 10 to 20 years back, as would not cost much.

Western787

03-17-14, 10:14

Chemistry can make a huge difference with bargirls.However that chemistry really isn't completely known until things are consummated back at the hotel. In fact that's the answer to the ST vs LT 4 hr vs 8 hr and so forth dilemma. Because while "chemistry" can be determined at some level in the bar or Go Go club, its not until the parties get back to the hotel and begin the session that things get determined. Although I see the issue being muddled up, "chemistry" IMHO isn't really about getting her off, or some kind of mutual romance BS, its just the general vibe, just whether the parties enjoy each other as people. While its always a job for the provider, many prefer certain customers, and any perceptive customer can pick up those vibes

The provider (the party with the biggest concerns) makes that assessment in the first hour of the session and can encompass many characteristics of the customer, detailed physical factors, the way he treats the girl, etc . And the customer makes his assessment and senses the response from the lady.

Except in special circumstances point is always go ST and then play it by ear and (assuming the lady wants it) possibly turn a ST into an extended ST or regular LT. At Go Go's for example you need to take them late enough (11:30 weekdays or by 12:30 weekends) that she's not thinking about running back to get re-barfined - HOWEVER early enough to have time in the evening to make the ST vs extended ST/LT decision.

In any case except for some hardcore porno turn-on some guys might prefer for their own reasons - generally IMHO (despite the reality) its best to never treat a provider like she's a hooker. In fact that factor alone vastly increases the odds of getting DFK along with other GFE interaction.

Whoreman

03-17-14, 10:39

Whoreman

03-17-14, 10:48

Its such a shame the previous posters haven't bothered to recognise this fantastic report! I love that you made it into a competition, and it seems you were well rewarded.

Bravo, keep on posting!Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.

Western787

03-17-14, 11:28

Speaking of change, I would like to survey a couple if long term bargirls and ask how much the customers have changed. Are the aholes much more prevalent now?Careful what you wish for as their prevalance along with other sloppy, smelly, drunk Farangs is a blessing in disguise in some ways for the remaining Farangs. Yes, it hurts the image and creates policies tagging all Farangs a certain way, but those can be mitigated.

And while Japanese are favored, they do have extremely high nicotine addiction rates vs very low smoking rates for Thai females. (8 to 1 in fact) , Note Thai male smoking rates are almost as high as Japan, and therefore not suprising LFK and DFK have only recently become more common in normal Thai BF / GF situations.

Western787

03-17-14, 11:50

Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.Well its not quite that bad yet, but with ultra cuties? Probably true, but sort of hot and kind of cute girls? Not absolutely true. The lineup girls (not at the bar) and particularly ones with the cutesy Jap sytle hairdos, they are probably not good bets regardless of looks, until very late evening.

These girls are simply going with the probabilities, can you blame them?

Under 35 stud type Farangs do OK with alot of girls there(ultra ultra cuties?, remotely possible), but one wonders why they got to pay for anything in the first place.

Part of the entertainment of Thermae in fact is watching typically average middle age or older Farangs get shot down. While I don't wish this upon anybody, especially guys that may have come from half way around the world, I suspect most haven't done much homework on the place, as when they do the "inspect the troops" style walk-by (which any Jap with a pulse and a dick gets away with in there) -after they get shot down, dissed or given dirty looks by girl after girl, they get this confused/ embarrassed look thinking maybe "why the hell are these girls standing here for hours then?"

Note while every guy HAS to buy a drink when he enters Thermae, the women don't, so the girls standing there in the lineup with their night bags ready-to-go are nearly always drink free, so some Farangs may offer them a drink and call them briefly to the bar, and in those cases I've seen some ultra cuties act very polite, even with older Farangs, but in those cases over time you invariably see the girls excusing themselves to go back to the lineup.

Bangkok appears to be in some kind of transition phase in regard to P4P and provider selectiveness, so its not going to necessarily work so well anymore for drop-by (non resident or non frequent visitor) type mongers focused on mid 8 or higher girls.

Best strategy at Thermae?, buy the popcorn and enjoy the show, and just see what evolves..

Thermae under Thai law could keep all Farangs out, but right now the show makes them money.

BronzeMan

03-17-14, 12:11

gentlemen,

i'm looking for a girl who can not only deepthroat but take a full on face fuck. i won't have much time in bangkok to do a lot of looking. can anyone make a suggestion or two? any names stick out at places like dr bjs, soms, kangaroo, lolipop, [CodeWord900] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900), etc?

no star of light recommendations though please.

also is kob's place out of business? never been but checked the level above star of light and couldn't find it last visit. is it gone?

thanks much

Goatscrot

03-17-14, 12:37

Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.Perhaps the worst change of all in BKK. From 99 till '07 I was in Thermae on average 4 nights a week. Probably pulled way in excess of 10 gals there. It was a big party almost every night. Gals were fun, interactive, grabbed your johnson, were very forward, and most liked to drink and have a great time. Now they stand and say little as the Japanese parade by. Sadly, it is their club now. I don't drop in too often as it just angers me to have working girls turn their noses up at me while cooing over a 65 year old Japanese dude with trousers up to his armpits. It is kind of sad and funny to see a great looking gal leave with one of these trolls. We get a good belly laugh, and I am sure it endears us to all the other Japanese hunters there.

But best wait staff in BKK. They all still greet me by name, know what I drink, and give that all knowing smile when I walk in.

Things change and when it comes to P4P in BKK, usually not for the better. Thermae is the prime example.

Goatscrot

03-17-14, 12:42

In fact that factor alone vastly increases the odds of getting DFK along with other GFE interaction.Of the hundreds of working girls I have been with in BKK, I can count on two hands the ones that did not enjoy DFK.

Goatscrot

03-17-14, 12:46

Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.You are correct. The real lookers would not [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) on a white man if he was on fire. Main reason is that is she is seen leaving with a white dude, the Japanese will not go with her anymore and her friends will give her a hard time.

One of my good friends used to see one of the ultra hotties in Thermae. She would not be seen leaving with him, opting instead to meet him around the block up Soi 15. And he was a very handsome 28 years old at the time.

The Japanese are very racist dudes. They feel the same way about white dudes poking gals they are doing as some racist white folk do about black dudes doing chicks they do. Personally my attitude is "a quick shower and she is as good as new."

Western787

03-17-14, 13:00

Of the hundreds of working girls I have been with in BKK, I can count on two hands the ones that did not enjoy DFK.Enjoy? Then you mean you got kissing with all but 10 out of 100's? So 98% or so of all providers (even first time with you) have offerred you kissing. That is not typical.

Syzygies

03-17-14, 15:47

Except in special circumstances point is always go ST and then play it by ear and (assuming the lady wants it) possibly turn a ST into an extended ST or regular LT. At Go Go's for example you need to take them late enough (11:30 weekdays or by 12:30 weekends) that she's not thinking about running back to get re-barfined. HOWEVER early enough to have time in the evening to make the ST vs extended ST / LT decision.

In any case except for some hardcore porno turn-on some guys might prefer for their own reasons. Generally IMHO (despite the reality) its best to never treat a provider like she's a hooker. In fact that factor alone vastly increases the odds of getting DFK along with other GFE interaction.I agree with most of what you say taking ST first. Even with good chemistry you can't guarantee good bed compatibility.

However I don't agree with waiting till 11:30 pm. With the most popular girls you will have low chances to get them except when they just returned. I tend to take them very early before the other guys get there. The girls like the fact they can go with me 2 hrs and still have plenty of time to pick up another customer, or a late pre booking.

I have been known to take a girl even before opening time.

I should add though that late is currently ok as business seems very slow.

11Bravo

03-17-14, 15:51

Perhaps the worst change of all in BKK. From 99 till '07 I was in Thermae on average 4 nights a week. Probably pulled way in excess of 10 gals there. It was a big party almost every night. Gals were fun, interactive, grabbed your johnson, were very forward, and most liked to drink and have a great time. Now they stand and say little as the Japanese parade by.Used to be a semi-frequent visitor from mid-90's to early 00's. I remember when it was in the previous building, and then when it moved to the basement of the current building. As it was first described to me back then, maybe the closest thing to the Star Wars bar you'll find. Three ring circus, seemed to be the refugee of last resort for a lot of castoffs, both server and client. But a fun place to visit, if you hadn't found a friend in Nana or Cowboy, there was always the possibility of finding company there. Or, if not, a last couple of drinks and some visual entertainment before heading home.

Best strategy at Thermae?, buy the popcorn and enjoy the show, and just see what evolves.Seems that even though things change, some things stay the same. Thermae was always one of the better shows in town.

Aqua64

03-17-14, 15:59

Hi folks,

I will be at Krungsri River Hotel in Ayuttahaya for few days before I go to BKK. Is there any action there?

Can you recommend any place or escort for the hotel?

Thanks for the help.

Syzygies

03-17-14, 17:05

There have been a lot of good things said about Crazy House but I've heard the girls are only interested in Japanese and Asian men. Have any posters actually taken one of these Crazy House "stunners" or have you just sat on your arses ogling them?It's not true that all the girls only want Japanese customers, however there are certainly a percentage of bad girls who are looking for 3k for a quickie.

New girls 2 and 24 are nice girls however one has the face and the other has the ass. Neither have a total package. No. 91 and 94 are examples of bad girls. I did not take them but their bad character is fairly obvious.

I took Mint who changes number often. She is a sweet girl and have repeated. I also took a girl with big tits. She was rather passive but still fuckable. A bit too young most likely.

Crazy House is a good place to ogle and get horny, but I suspect a small percentage of the stunners will actually be good. I can't be sure as did not want to sample a significant number of them. .

Western787

03-17-14, 17:43

I agree with most of what you say taking ST first. Even with good chemistry you can't guarantee good bed compatibility.

However I don't agree with waiting till 11:30 pm. With the most popular girls you will have low chances to get them except when they just returned. I tend to take them very early before the other guys get there. The girls like the fact they can go with me 2 hrs and still have plenty of time to pick up another customer, or a late pre booking.

I have been known to take a girl even before opening time.

I should add though that late is currently ok as business seems very slow.What I meant to say was within the context where the goal is to possibly get a LT and a good vibe for that LT . In that sense as far as Go Go's one might want to look at that 11:30 to 12:30 window. Its not easily done, because the most are not favorable to LT in the first place, and getting a good vibe is not going to always happen The point is working those time frames increases the odds if that is what one wants. My guess is that most customers 80% of the time are really focused on just ST anyways, and nothing else, so in that context you are correct, the hotties get picked off early even in the past "Non-High High Season" so you'd have to get them near opening or before their 2nd or perhaps 3rd ST.

Now of course with "cute" girls (not stunners per se) they were often around at 11; 30 ready for their barfine, the protests and lack of tourists accentuating that factor of course.

Goatscrot

03-17-14, 18:22

Enjoy? Then you mean you got kissing with all but 10 out of 100's? So 98% or so of all providers (even first time with you) have offerred you kissing. That is not typical.Yep, enjoy. Women like to kissing, its intimate, and that includes Thai women. I find it completely typical as do most of the guys I know and yes, the first time. Most of my encounters with gogo gals and FLs were one time only. For my first seven years here I rarely repeated.

Minute I hit the ST Hotel room I had my tongue down the gals throat. I would not say offered as I just go at it like I would go at it with any girlfriend, gig, or sex partner. When I would hear,"Shower, Shower," I would continue to kiss them relentlessly and say "after, after." I set the tone and the pace. I found the majority tended to let themselves go, feeding off my intensity. Really never had complaints.
Maybe this has changed as well with the scene becoming more sterile and a more "professional" attitude prevailing. As I said before, all my running buds back in the day never complained about girls not kissing. My first night ever in BKK I sat in Long Gun making out with a gal for about an hour before taking her to my hotel. It was very common to sit with a gal in a bar and kiss, feel, and play. Of course I have always been in good shape, clean shaven, well dressed, and don't smoke. Those things make a difference. If you are overweight, are not well groomed, wear cargo shorts, flip-flops, and a Red Bull T-Shirt, you might have a bit harder of a time getting gals to kiss you.

With oily girls it is far different. I know the service is going to be pretty good, so I kick back and enjoy.

Western787

03-17-14, 21:46

Of course I have always been in good shape, clean shaven, well dressed, and don't smoke. Those things make a difference. If you are overweight, are not well groomed, wear cargo shorts, flip-flops, and a Red Bull T-Shirt, you might have a bit harder of a time getting gals to kiss you.Absolutely. Clean shaven, in shape, well dressed, non-smoker status. Otherwise you are cutting the odds, I agree. Ok, so you're initiating ("just going at it") DFK or LFK and on that basis you get few turndowns. OK, that's not bad. Unless I ask for it specifically upfront which might happen ocassionally if the girl looks exceptionally kissable, normally I just let them make the move in that regard, and I figure about 50% overall excluding the rarer "ask up front" situations. Of course I AM going to no matter what kiss, them in them near the mouth, on the neck, earlobes, and cheeks and so forth, the usual fake kissing things. It either then goes to DFK or LFK or not, and in some cases with certain girls as the session moves along its not something I am always looking for, and part of that relates to the vibe of the session, and whether I sense a hardcore hooker thing as the session moves forward. Hardcore hookers don't exactly appeal to me in regard to authentic kissing.

Western787

03-17-14, 22:39

Gentlemen!

5 pages of political commentary, how about back to the main top of Intl SEX GUIDE.

Here is my 2 cents worth. In town for 2 nights. Friday night scene at the Thermae.

Nice mix of English speaking Farang, French / Italians and wow, an influx of Koreans and lots of Japanese. The JPs looked fairly young and are either working men tourists or perhaps someone that lives here. After all, a Japanese salary man would never be caught dead in a girlie bar in shorts and t-shirt. The young Koreans are mostly lookers and gawkers, shy to talk to the girls and kept to them selves. The Singaporeans seemed the most at ease and understood the game. A few old cynical Thai hands but all contribute to the vibe.

Lots of talent standing around. A few real stunners (9+) with attitudes but a lot of 6-8s that were friendly, chatty and reasonable. The market survey ranged from B1500-2500 (about US$ 50-80). The nice thing about the Thermae, at least based on reputation. No Lady Boys allowed. I've heard it both ways on the post ops, but that's another story.

A lot of girls were there after their day jobs, it seems to be a known spot for the ladies and a chance to catch a diamond in the rough or the occasional surprise for the punter.

Call me dense, but for rental, I'd rather have one that looked good enough but willing to go the extra mile than a drop dead gorgeous star fish.

I found me a pair that seemed to get along. We had a few drinks and agreed that I would settle on a choice. They both knew the game. I was supposed to pick one but just ONE. This kept the game competitive. I made them whisper terms and pricing in my ear, a la "dating game" style. We kept it light fun and non-committal. I then introduced an element that there was a wild card. Another hottie was making eye contact after these two didn't appear to close the trade immediately. I got propositioned on the way to the head by a very skilled almost pro. She wanted 2k. Pass, I was having fun just seeing where the night goes.

Keep in kind, I am no Brad Pitt. Just an average bloke, late 40s early 50s, like 70% of the bar.

Back to the two at the table. One was a 7 with a full back tatoo (not my thing, but man was she flirty and just cute as a button. Like something out of a Japanese anime cartoon) , the other had a very stout stocky body with a booty ass and real nice knockers, she promised unlimited activities even in a short term. Such a hard process to choose.

I guess this is the problem with Thai girls. They are small. So take 2 if you can.

Anyway, they are asking if I want short time or long time. Now, this is where I maybe born at night, but not last night. The usual trap here. Punters dilemma. Say short time and they are setting up with the girl friends for an after hours hunt. Say long time, and they get the inevitable phone call 75 min in with an emergency after you've paid them.

Ahhhhhh, Thailand, the land of smiles or was it scams. (One night in Bangkok going in my head)

I told them I could not make up my mind and was about to call it a night. I gave them each few hundred baht for a thank you cab fare (yes, I know it doesn't cost the locals that much, but hey it's like US$7, bar tip / tea money). They both jumped and asked if I was going with the hottie from across the bar (who wanted to horn in) , I said no, told them they were both so nice and I just not bear the thought of disappointing either one, that said, it was time for the hotel.

They offered to both go for ST at B1500 with an option to extend one girl for LT at 1000 more (2500 LT) Sort of trial to see who was better at my pleasure. So we head to the hotel, both girls are damn near giddy to be chosen. We get to the hotel (Dream, behind Robinsons Dept Store. Very G-friendly, yet discrete, classy and frequented by local Thais on business.). I tip the front desk 100 and ask they keep the girls I'd. (It's SOP now, but the desk clerks really take good care with a small incentive)

We get to the room, no mention of money. I ask to put their cell phones with mine in the safe. OK, no hassles. We get to a 3 some vertical soapy scrub. Dream has a big standup glass door shower, no tub! 15 minutes of good scrub and tub, BBBJ from both as a warm up. A little cock on the ass play of the booty butt, the Jap anime is more protective of her ass, she is convinced in the end to allow a little play, just could not convert her to a level service. (Not really intended since there were no condoms in the shower).

Funny thing is the girls would not do lesbian kissing, hard rimming or a-level anal, but pretty much everything else is game. Multiple positions, switch outs, more mouth on cock play, the stocky one got really wet and came. The anime was being a little lazy, so I ate her while the big one was riding cow girl. Damn, I almost got them to kiss when they were sucking my fingers. The anime is hot now, so I started to fuck her hard. Pulled her legs up around her shoulders, she starts to fake moan. I fold her over on the side and pound the flesh. The fake moaning stops and she's holding her voice almost a weird grunt. I pound harder and harder. She let's out a deep groan and pulls the pillow over her head. The groans continue and she's screams a muffled, finish now, finish now. The other one rolls over, spread eagle and says do me, finish inside me. (Oh, I forgot to tell, I promised a B1000 bonus to the one that gets me to cum, trying to keep the game interesting). I roll the anime over on her knees, pound to almost and take it out. She looks over and it's like WTF? I am trying to get the stocky one on her knees to do both in simultaneous doggie style in a back and forth.

The anime has other ideas, she strips off the condom and starts to suck my rod. Damn, it took all my control not to just unload it then and there. The stocky one jumps up and starts tongue on nipple action then pushes the anime out of the way for some hard ball sucking and hand on shaft drive. The anime sticks her tongue on the tip of my cock and both are working hard. I roll over and hold both girls tightly, then proceed to shoot my load on both their faces. A little extra conditioner for the beautiful black hairs on their heads.

They wipe, we rest and cuddle, it's now 2:15 into the session. The girls want to know who will be kept LT, I keep the suspense on until a about of consciousness tells me a.) I really need some sleep. B.) they need to go on and do what they do at almost 3am.

Called down stairs after giving back their phones.

In the end, I give them both B2500, the shooter bonus + ST, they already has B200 can fare and parted a pair of happy hookers!

I figured it was comparable to Eden with a pair of semi-pros. Good change of pace.Interesting commmentary. Phones in the safe? LOL, damn cells, what a pain sometimes they can be with these girls. The smarter ones I notice, perhaps after one outbound safety related call, will shut it down.

Whoreman

03-17-14, 23:02

Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?

Kaintuck

03-17-14, 23:57

I remember the Kangaroo in the late '70s when is was best known for giving blow jobs at the bar. I used to take visitors there for the experience. First guy to come pays for both. One day the mama-san asked me to be a training aid for a new girl who had just arrived from the Isaan. Her cherry was being sold the next day to a Sino-Thai for B6, 000. Today was training day. Since I spoke Thai mama-san offered me a freebie while she taught the new girl how to give a BJ in the back room. A good time was had by all, especially me.

Goatscrot

03-18-14, 03:10

Absolutely. Clean shaven, in shape, well dressed, non-smoker status. Otherwise you are cutting the odds, I agree. Ok, so you're initiating ("just going at it") DFK or LFK and on that basis you get few turndowns. OK, that's not bad. Unless I ask for it specifically upfront which might happen ocassionally if the girl looks exceptionally kissable, normally I just let them make the move in that regard, and I figure about 50% overall excluding the rarer "ask up front" situations. Of course I AM going to no matter what kiss, them in them near the mouth, on the neck, earlobes, and cheeks and so forth, the usual fake kissing things. It either then goes to DFK or LFK or not, and in some cases with certain girls as the session moves along its not something I am always looking for, and part of that relates to the vibe of the session, and whether I sense a hardcore hooker thing as the session moves forward. Hardcore hookers don't exactly appeal to me in regard to authentic kissing.On a very few occasions I have had issues with my approach and most of those issues were recently. Recent as in '10 to '11 as I don't really take gogo or FL girls now. I would never really ask girls, now it seems you have to discuss everything, kind of like a working girl in the West, and truthfully I really would rather pass if I have to do that sort of interview.

When I would get to the room and the gal would not want to kiss, let me finger them, etc, I would just get up, put my clothes on, give a very small amount of money, say 100. 200 baht and leave. When the gal asks me what's wrong, I tell her in Thai that I expect her to perform like she is in a porn movie or she as if she is with her boyfriend I also make it very clear that I don't want her to do anything she is not comfortable with and finally I tell that that I am in no sense of the word angry as no one should do what they don't want to do. I only had one girl in 14 years who got horsey with me after. In fact, I still see one or two of these girls out in FL places and they are very friendly to me. I imagine there are many guys who get really aggressive when they are not getting the service they want.

I have found that up until recently sessions could easily be led by the male, now it seems that more and more hookers have "rules." "I don't do this, don't touch me there." Might as well head to a brothel in Nevada if one is going to play that game.

Goatscrot

03-18-14, 03:11

Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?As I said, a quick shower, shot of mouthwash, and she is as good as new. Does not even enter into my head. If that bothers a dude, he might want to rethink mongering.

Mogwai

03-18-14, 03:55

there have been a lot of good things said about crazy house but i've heard the girls are only interested in japanese and asian men. have any posters actually taken one of these crazy house "stunners" or have you just sat on your arses ogling them?be very careful if you take a girl from crazy house as quite a lot of them are ****. recently i spoke to a girl who works there. she's in her late thirties and she complained to me that she has to compete with 14 and 15 yo! i said "wtf"?"yes there are girls as young as 14 and 15" she said.

what striked me was that she didn't seem to care much that they are that young. she only complained that she has to compete with them.

Western787

03-18-14, 04:11

Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?Despite what read in here, I don't think "rimming" or whatever hell you call it is being done to all or most customers, especially not serially in close proximity by typical providers such as Go Go girls, FLs, and part-timers (Oils perhaps one exception). Even across classes of providers in Bangkok most of their customers I don't believe in fact are mongers per se, and many guys just don't want a girls face in or around their ass- myself included.

Now on the other issue, not much you can do about it unless you just give up DFK and LFK. Lets assume you never kiss providers, well you are still getting a BBBJ from a girl that (under your argument) just gave a BBBJ to another guy, and you're doing FS with them when they just did FS with somebody else. I Lets say you do DATY (perhaps you skip that too?) well that girl may have just went BBFS, and this at times can even include hot Go Go dancers, who for whatever reason sometimes just take it BB

Paul Kausch

03-18-14, 05:35

Despite what read in here, I don't think "rimming" or whatever hell you call it is being done to all or most customers.

(Oils perhaps one exception).

Well that girl may have just went BBFS, and this at times can even include hot Go Go dancers, who for whatever reason sometimes just take it BBRegarding rimming, I think you are right. This is an "exotic" service you're more likely to find at Tulip, Eden or from some of the PSE specialists at the oilies. Also, good escorts normally offer rimming. Read the descriptions of services offered and it almost always appears. However, escorts see fewer clients, perhaps only one a day. The good agencies do insist that the clients practice good hygiene. Escorts are adamant that they don't care what a client looks like so long as he is clean. As for the MPs, don't sessions always start in the shower or bath?

Regarding bareback, I mentioned in a post some time ago that a while back a fellow on ISG, whom I believe to be Thai, exchanged some PMs with me. He said he was a friend of several MP girls. He claimed bareback is much more common than many guys realize. According to him, virtually all the girls at the more hardcore MPs do bareback on a very regular basis; basically, if the clients insists they oblige. He also said all of them periodically contract STDs; and large numbers of them have hepatitis B, which they are not treating.

Our hobby is not without risks. It's best to balance having fun and playing safe.

Goatscrot

03-18-14, 06:47

Despite what read in here, I don't think "rimming" or whatever hell you call it is being done to all or most customers, especially not serially in close proximity by typical providers such as Go Go girls, FLs, and part-timers (Oils perhaps one exception). Even across classes of providers in Bangkok most of their customers I don't believe in fact are mongers per se, and many guys just don't want a girls face in or around their ass- myself included.

Now on the other issue, not much you can do about it unless you just give up DFK and LFK. Lets assume you never kiss providers, well you are still getting a BBBJ from a girl that (under your argument) just gave a BBBJ to another guy, and you're doing FS with them when they just did FS with somebody else. I Lets say you do DATY (perhaps you skip that too?) well that girl may have just went BBFS, and this at times can even include hot Go Go dancers, who for whatever reason sometimes just take it BBNever thought I would be into being rimmed, but after having it done a couple of times at Tulip back in the day, I must admit I really want it on the menu. I have found that if you rim the gal, she is likely to get the hint and rim you. You would be surprised at how many gals will.

Goatscrot

03-18-14, 06:52

According to him, virtually all the girls at the more hardcore MPs do bareback on a very regular basis; basically, if the clients insists they oblige. He also said all of them periodically contract STDs; and large numbers of them have hepatitis B, which they are not treating.

Our hobby is not without risks. It's best to balance having fun and playing safe.Some will even initiate it. Getting that Hep B series of vaccines is important for mongers. Yep, there is a risk, but as you say, if you play safe you can minimize it.

Member #4387

03-18-14, 07:17

I for once follow the struggle some guys inside here meet when dealing with our dear prostitutes. I am aware I don't usualy meet the most hardned women out there ex on occation a Beergarden girl or two (sometimes) , as I put a no to streetwalkers, bargirls, go go girls etc (and yes I know there are some BG, GO GO, MP's wandering into the FL market in the clubs after their shift ends but even so). Mostly I cater to the FL segment visiting BKK nightclubs when we speak about P4P.

As I invest some time pre screening ladies in the clubs and build good chemistry through spendings, drinking and having fun I rarly have problems when the sex part begins. When having a good time and make the girls feel comfortable and even get them a bit tipsy I almost with very rare exceptions get a great experience from them. Some even go the extra mile to try give PSE effort. When they feel comfortable they do rimming (not all ofcourse but the greater part does) , around 80, give or take a few, are up for A+. DFK, DATY and BBBJ I see as a natural thing so I don't give it to much thought realy. But for guys dealing with ST girls I can see the point of getting last customers cum in your mouth as not to tempting.

I think I can count on one hand over the years girls wanting me to rubber up but to unknown girls I allways rubber up when doing A+ and ofcourse Beergarden girls. So as some mongers state the girls getting more and more proffesional and gives out the menu (what they do or not) seems not to effect me so far, thanks god, as I know I would have hated that. Infact my impression is that the nightclub FL market is blooming like never before and a lot of new faces turns up every night (atleast according to management I now know quite well a few places). I am not in town every night so would have hard time view it on my own.

I for once think we see more and more girls wanting to be their own bosses and don't like beeing part of lets say the BF system anymore. Maby they even get themself a dayjob and only hit clubs once or twice a week to have some extra cashflow? If so fine by me.

Syzygies

03-18-14, 07:52

Paul Kausch

03-18-14, 07:56

Never thought I would be into being rimmed, but after having it done a couple of times at Tulip back in the day, I must admit I really want it on the menu. I have found that if you rim the gal, she is likely to get the hint and rim you. You would be surprised at how many gals will.I think many of us have an innate fear of anything other their tissue paper getting close to our asshole; however, like you I've discovered rimming feels very good, once you relax and let yourself enjoy it. I particularly enjoy a threesome with one lady rimming me and the other giving me a BJ; or better yet getting rimmed by one lady while I fuck the other lady. :D

Syzygies

03-18-14, 08:00

Regarding bareback, I mentioned in a post some time ago that a while back a fellow on ISG, whom I believe to be Thai, exchanged some PMs with me. He said he was a friend of several MP girls. He claimed bareback is much more common than many guys realize. According to him, virtually all the girls at the more hardcore MPs do bareback on a very regular basis; basically, if the clients insists they oblige. He also said all of them periodically contract STDs; and large numbers of them have hepatitis B, which they are not treating.It's the dumb girls that do it regularly. Some are persuaded by doctors to stop doing it. I know a girl who was very beautiful and a hooker for 20 years now, bare backing many Thais and Farangs no doubt. She has Aids now. It's not surprising.

FreebieFan

03-18-14, 08:25

Some will even initiate it. Getting that Hep B series of vaccines is important for mongers. Yep, there is a risk, but as you say, if you play safe you can minimize it.And for those wondering, Hep B vaccination is a series of 3 shots administered over 6 months. Its good for 10 years. When getting the vaccination, check the bottle they are using to ensure is not expired stock.

Paul Kausch

03-18-14, 08:45

As I invest some time pre screening ladies in the clubs and build good chemistry through spendings, drinking and having fun I rarly have problems when the sex part begins. When having a good time and make the girls feel comfortable and even get them a bit tipsy I almost with very rare exceptions get a great experience from them. Some even go the extra mile to try give PSE effort. When they feel comfortable they do rimming (not all ofcourse but the greater part does) , around 80, give or take a few, are up for A+. DFK, DATY and BBBJ I see as a natural thing so I don't give it to much thought realy. But for guys dealing with ST girls I can see the point of getting last customers cum in your mouth as not to tempting.The pros seem to have a publicized list of services rendered, with special treats they make available to clients they particularly like.

As for non-pros who are open minded enough to playing the game, my experiences have been like yours. Once they are comfortable with you, they are surprisingly adventurous. As you point out, generally you have to take the lead and use a little finesse.

Young ladies who do not have a lot of experience with anal play don't always realize what you are doing. I've had experiences when I've worked on a young lady's clit with my tongue while I played with the opening of her ass with my fingers and then inserted one finger just before she climaxes. Afterwards the lady would ask what I was doing to her. After explaining what it was, because it caused a more intense orgasm she'd be eager for more. I've also had success introducing ladies who like ass play to the pleasures of getting their ass fucked by entering the lady's pussy while she's in doggy position and working her clit with a vibrator. Then I'd lube her up and introduce increasing numbers of fingers in her ass, slowly, allowing her to get acquainted with the sensation of having her ass stretched. Once she was comfortable with three fingers, I'd tell her I was going to gently put my cock in her ass. The usual response was something like "okay" or "okay but go slow." I'd reassure her I'd be gentle and proceed. If she seemed to be uncomfortable I'd stop and try again next time. Some ladies would make it clear they didn't want me to try again. Some ladies were up for another attempt. These were the ladies who ended up really enjoying it.

The key is getting the lady comfortable with you, proceeding slowly and not pushing the lady too far too fast. Once you establish trust, it may surprise you where she will let you lead them.

Paul Kausch

03-18-14, 09:00

It's the dumb girls that do it regularly.This is also what I would think. Seems to me only a very stupid or pathologically reckless girl would regularly do bareback; however, that is not what this fellow claimed. Now what he told me may have been a bunch of bull, but he seemed to know a great deal about the inner workings of an MP, the policies and what was expected of the ladies. Now he was talking about what I think of as the hardcore MPs. Among these he claimed the majority of the ladies regularly do bareback and the establishment makes it clear to the ladies they are to give the customers whatever they want. He said the girls have a very fatalistic attitude about the dangers of what they are doing.

My personal experience is at least a quarter but less than half of the MPs and gogo girls I've fucked over the years would clearly have let me ride them bareback without raising an objection. My point is guys who go bareback may be surprised at how many other are doing the same and the magnitude of the risk they are taking.

I'll repeat myself. Have fun. Play safe.

Goatscrot

03-18-14, 11:00

And for those wondering, Hep B vaccination is a series of 3 shots administered over 6 months. Its good for 10 years. When getting the vaccination, check the bottle they are using to ensure is not expired stock.Close, it is three injections but its good for life not 10 years.

OsakaGin11

03-18-14, 13:25

Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?I would have to agree 100 % with you WH. And TBH I am rarely ever comfortable DATY with the lady of night.

But its different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

Samui69

03-19-14, 16:10

I agree with Mr Syzygies, girls in CH do go with western guys as they also do with Asian guys. From beginning of December to half January I did barfine some ladies there, like Tang (100) , the bestscoring one in barfines no. 51, Bua (27) and service lady Nan (she leave already) And I must say that only Bua was OK enough for me to repeat. Tang is by far the cutest one on stage and have quite big natural boobs. I think the service provided in bed is in general very low, but I do like the vibe that CH sometimes have. The have a show right now, but that need some time and sure need some danceinstructor. No. 91 and No. 94 are indeed bad girls with dito attitude. Never see them smile anyway.

It's not true that all the girls only want Japanese customers, however there are certainly a percentage of bad girls who are looking for 3k for a quickie.

New girls 2 and 24 are nice girls however one has the face and the other has the ass. Neither have a total package. No. 91 and 94 are examples of bad girls. I did not take them but their bad character is fairly obvious.

I took Mint who changes number often. She is a sweet girl and have repeated. I also took a girl with big tits. She was rather passive but still fuckable. A bit too young most likely.

Crazy House is a good place to ogle and get horny, but I suspect a small percentage of the stunners will actually be good. I can't be sure as did not want to sample a significant number of them.

11Bravo

03-19-14, 17:25

had planned on stopping by addicts mp to see if my poc (provider of choice) was back from her holiday. but running late, time getting short, so decided to just stop by the bier garten for a drink, leaving addicts for tomorrow.

now i just might have to have that cataract operation, or start wearing my driving glasses all the time, or maybe make a first stop at sol, som's, [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)'s, etc, because now there seems to be 4 or 5 very attractive flames in there at 4pm. several others, of course, come over to make conversation, check on employment possibilities, but i'm not interested in them, easy to tell them i'm just there to drink, they'll just lose time.

a couple of hot flames are over at the pack table, the table 1/2 way into the place, in line with the entrance, perpendicular to it. always a mixed group sitting there, but front row goes to the best looking ones, not having to move, being on display for any punter entering. in dxb, the philipina gazelles would herd together in the seaview for protection from the jackals. but here, seems more like queen bees, waiting for potential worthy drones to approach, or perhaps spotting a drone worthy enough for royalty to visit.

a couple of others rep001tered in the bar. one older (i say experienced) one has a very nicely displayed cleavage. she's close enough for her to try and strike up a conversation, but far enough away not all comes across. there's another very attractive one a couple of stools over, but she's occupied (though 10 minutes later, he's left, she's stayed). but by that time, miss c has pointed to the empty stool next to me, and, having gotten a nod, has moved to join me. standard bier garten. i figure i'll have another drink, check the attitude, and if good, get a phone number for another day when i have time.

attitude is very good, hand's on marketing. no rush to get out the door, just some friendly banter, chit-chat. i've just about finished my drink, worth getting the number. then she ups the marketing, asking if i like massage (yea, heard that before from my previous bg pull, sadly disappointed). but she demonstrates on back, head, shoulders, and she's good. i ask how much time she has, and it's the traditional "up to you". as i said, she's experienced, as when i ask about the status of penthouse and playboy, she confirms penthouse is gone, but playboy's still there. we can go there if i want, but she prefers the new bg standard, world inn, 1 street over. i have to smile as she is familiar enough with the playboy that she knows it has mirrors "if you want watch me", but she mentions the rooms don't smell the greatest (comes with age and being below ground, 1/2 of which i also qualify for). i mention twice, and she's the one offering bbbj, massage, then fs, 2k. i excuse myself (yes, i can still stand up and walk without embarrassment) , step outside, and make a couple of phone calls to rearrange my schedule. step back inside, verify it's 2 hours (hey, we all get old) , and off we go. optimist that i am, pay for 2 hours, 2 condoms (just in case 1 slips off).

on entering the room, like the other bg pull, tv and a/c go on almost simultaneously, but unlike the other bg pull with mutual shower, seems this one prefers sequential. experienced enough to assuage any security concerns i might have by saying i should take my pants (with wallet) with me. showers finished, she joins me on the bed with some b2b, followed by the promised bbbj. round 1 finished, we clean up, she starting the promised massage. doesn't reach the expertise of dxb's prc experts, but it's damn good, equivalent or better than most full service mp's (hey, massage is not the primary reason you go there, but have to do something between rounds, hell to get old, and i've already finished today's bkk post). besides the massage, we also have a nice discussion about malaysian airlines, religious fundamentalists, trouble in the south, rice farming, non-payment of rice funds, ... a few times she'll stop as either she or i want to make a point, but for the most part, she continues the massage throughout the discussion. class.

after the massage, bit more talk, then she uses her natural endowments to make sure i'm fully awake. various positions, and again, while the sound effects are artificial, not over the top. judges give me a 2 on the 1/2 somersault as we switch from cowgirl to missionary; just don't flex that well anymore, but at least i don't get leg cramps. mission accomplished, clean up, and spend a few minutes relaxing in bed.

time to get going, we each have other places to be. as i'm putting on my watch, fmtt. ignored my own advice to book one hour, paying more if required. it's over an hour, but if they round down, it'd be an hour. oh well, i don't care. she was definitely not a clock watcher, and i believe that if i was a bit slower, it would not have been a problem. fun time. i do get her number, and confirm, for future assignations. slip the money in her purse, along with a good tip. with service like that, an addict's visit will be postponed for a day or two.

bottom line, luck of the draw, but taking some time to judge attitude, there are some gems at the bier garten. might not be the youngest, but, for me. 30ish is just fine.

11Bravo

03-20-14, 06:35

decided to pay dr bj's a 1st time visit, figuring chances were good it would be ok if annie's aey is involved. they have a nice web site, showing a number of the girls, so before arriving, had several in mind. several come-ons from the girls sitting outside as i approached. walked inside, asked if it was my 1st time (was) , then showed a card with the prices listed (and as seen on the web site). girls joined the lineup; considerable number of choices. picked a well-endowed consultant i remembered from the web site.

up to the room. ok, small cubicle sized room, but nicer than say [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)'s bench with a curtain. dr. bj's claim to fame seems to be their in-room wash facility, a sink with a "package" extension. sounds good, but to really get the full benefit requires you to remove your pants, and thus shoes, rather than just dropping trou as in other places. more for the provider's benefit than the customer's, me thinks. :) i never minded a cool towel wipe myself.

service promised was what was delivered, but the endowments stayed concealed, which was a bit disappointing. now, i didn't ask, nor did i take a hand dip myself, just leaned back to enjoy. but keeping them covered cost her a tip, as nothing special delivered. will point out that the sol's sop is for the girl to go topless, without being asked. everything taken care of, returned downstairs to pay the cashier on the way out.

can't really complain, downstairs certainly is bright and clean, and they do have considerable staff. might repeat during rush hour; otherwise, i'll take the bts over to patpong for a visit to sol. much fewer providers, only 1 room, with a couple of stools, or the couches in the main bar, but, for me, the ambiance and service better.

do wish aey all the luck; she is a class lady, though now no doubt grown up from the "minor" (some thais just don't show their age) with granny glasses that used to be behind the bar at annie's.

Supmam

03-21-14, 04:49

Anyone had a two girl BBBJ at any of the grand BJ bars of BKK? Will report back but interested if anyone has a recommendation for the best place to try it.

Paul Kausch

03-21-14, 05:38

Anyone had a two girl BBBJ at any of the grand BJ bars of BKK? Will report back but interested if anyone has a recommendation for the best place to try it.About half the ladies at Dr BJ's Salon "work with other ladies". I expect you can get 2-girl BBBJ at all the BJ bars in Bangkok.

Syzygies

03-21-14, 06:40

Paul Kausch

03-21-14, 07:40

11Abravo,

I take the VIP at Dr BJ. It's a very full service indeed in a large room including body slide massage and large bed.

This better room makes it superior to Annie's. There is no bath, but showering with the girl is just as good for me.Yep, see my report about P in the VIP room, posted in early January. Frankly, the VIP room at DR BJ's Salon is larger and as nice as many hotel rooms. Also, you can turn off the A / C, turn on a fan and make the room more comfortable. My biggest complaint of Annie's is the rooms are too damn cold!

Has anyone used the Panorama room at Paradise Massage? I was thinking of trying it on my next visit. They offer a two-girl special. Panorama Room and one-girl for 2-hours is 3500; 6000 with two-girls. Obviously they cater primarily to Japanese customers, but I'm interested in giving it a try.

Back to Dr BJ's VIP room, if there is a lady or two there whom you like I recommend taking her (them) up to the VIP room for a romp.

BronzeMan

03-21-14, 08:04

Say this on Stickman recently:

"A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

I would love to know which place he's talking about? Any help? I'm from Cambodia but hit Bangkok fairly regularly.

The only go gos with on premises action I know are the strip and some of the small places on Soi Cowboy.

Mouse1

03-22-14, 06:32

Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.Suvarnabhumi Airport is a modern clean high-tech international airport. There may be one or two up-scale massage places there. But if you are staying air-side then I think the chances of getting what you seek are as close to zero as possible. It would be possible to come out of the airport and with some planning find some relief.

Mogwai

03-22-14, 08:32

say this on stickman recently:

"a handful of readers have asked why i shirk mentioning the bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. it's not bacarra and nor is it rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. this particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. i won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. i will say no more."

i would love to know which place he's talking about? any help? i'm from cambodia but hit bangkok fairly regularly.

the only go gos with on premises action i know are the strip and some of the small places on soi cowboy.i think he's talking about crazy house. however be aware of **** girls! see my post #26701 and several posts from others in the last months.

Porkys123

03-22-14, 10:24

Suvarnabhumi Airport is a modern clean high-tech international airport. There may be one or two up-scale massage places there. But if you are staying air-side then I think the chances of getting what you seek are as close to zero as possible. It would be possible to come out of the airport and with some planning find some relief.What about Don Muang airport? Will be spending 5 hours there in transit. So too little time for visa and trip to Nana. Any scope there?

Wolvenvacht

03-22-14, 11:56

Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.If you stay on the transit-side, your chances are next to nothing. I have seen a few massage places near some of the gates, but they seemed very "clean" and I'm not sure they even have a "back room" for the more interesting activities.

And you will not have enough time to pass through immigration twice and go to town.

Duniawala

03-22-14, 15:23

Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.Yes, yes and yes. There is string of GOGO bars and BJ places in the transit area. Just like the departure lounge at your home airport. Just make sure you change your money to Baht at the currencey exchange before you go in.

Rjsss212

03-22-14, 15:36

Yes, yes and yes. There is string of GOGO bars and BJ places in the transit area. Just like the departure lounge at your home airport. Just make sure you change your money to Baht at the currencey exchange before you go in.Of course it was a stupid question not worthy of being dignified with an answer but all you ever do is react to these types of questions.

Have you nothing of your own to report?

Jazzy Daddy

03-23-14, 01:24

Paul Kausch

03-23-14, 03:24

Could be Crazy House. It tends to get very full although they could overflow to upstairs. Suzi Wong also gets very full at times.
.

Read my report from 2/8/14. This was a CH girl.
Say this on Stickman recently:

"A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

I would love to know which place he's talking about? Any help? I'm from Cambodia but hit Bangkok fairly regularly.

The only go gos with on premises action I know are the strip and some of the small places on Soi Cowboy.About three weeks ago in this thread I asked the same question. See Syzygies' answer above.

Phuquer

03-23-14, 03:38

Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.Years ago you could get what you seek in the old airport. Unfortunately, that service died with the opening of the new airport. Even back then it was nothing really special. Older ladies, and limited extras. It kind of reminded me of the slot machines at the airport in Las Vegas. Nobody ever hits the jackpot there, but it's good for getting your handle pulled one last time before heading home.

Giotto

03-23-14, 05:09

Hi folks,

I will be at Krungsri River Hotel in Ayuttahaya for few days before I go to BKK. Is there any action there?

Can you recommend any place or escort for the hotel?

Thanks for the help.Aqua64,

3 posts. 3 questions. When will you return something to the forum?

Ayutthaya:

Look for Grand Street in the new city (not the island, not Soi Farang) , off Rojana Road (Krungsri river hotel is located at this road, too). It's where the Grand Hotel is located, and the Ayutthaya Night Plaza. Start with Cowboy Bar, life music, drinks (food not so convincing) , and then walk into the small side roads there. You will find lots of KTV's, Japanese Karaokes, bars, massage places etc. etc. .

Giotto

CheeChee889

03-23-14, 06:30

Late night agogo happenings. 11; 45 pm at a pop. Agogo. After the first wave of barfines get going there is a group of girls who just can't attract paying customers left on stage. As the first wave of popular cum buckets back they are then chosen for the 2nd round. Leaving the same goobers on stage-what I presume is till closing.

BionicMan

03-23-14, 07:53

Yes, yes and yes. There is string of GOGO bars and BJ places in the transit area. Just like the departure lounge at your home airport. Just make sure you change your money to Baht at the currencey exchange before you go in.The best option is when one flies business or first class with Thai airways, as he can access the TG Spa, nearby some of the TG lounges. First class passengers, need to show the boarding card and. No need of baht as a minimum relief can be included, by just demanding it at reception.

Harry Dude

03-23-14, 12:34

If you stay on the transit-side, your chances are next to nothing. I have seen a few massage places near some of the gates, but they seemed very "clean" and I'm not sure they even have a "back room" for the more interesting activities.

And you will not have enough time to pass through immigration twice and go to town.The in-airport spas are very clean. Nice for killing time before a flight though.

Five hours should actually be sufficient time to go to Sukhumvit. I have done this myself, arriving BKK on a domestic flight and connecting to an international flight about 5 hours later. Upon arrival, you can store your carry-on luggage in the airport, catch a cab to go to an oily, soapy or whatever you like, and you could be in action about one hour after touching down. 90 minutes later, drained and clean, catch a taxi back to the airport, and you should be in security about 2 hours before your onward flight. Plenty of time. Especially if you fly business and have access to fast track.

CheeChee889

03-23-14, 17:42

Western787

03-23-14, 21:52

Report on Baccarra. Highly un inspiring. Even got some girls I would say are downright ugly.

Dollhouse report. Number 7 has quite a good face and really nice breasts. Unfortunately Buddha was not kind to her during childbirth. Very noticeable stretch marks!The real question is. Is this the macro (multi year) trend at work? Or is this a near term issue? Or perhaps a bit of both?
Baccarra has gone downhill, that is true, and it became more noticeable after Jan 12th when the protests expanded into the 24/7 encampments and disrupting among other places the entire Soi 21 intersection. Now in regard to the macro issue, Stickman back in 2012 laid out the issue aboout as good as I've seen it with his Auckland analogy. He may overstate it a bit in regard to the particulars (comparative "western" prices, the multi day issue and so forth) but the overall macro trend seems to be described pretty well. Note that neither Baccarra or Rainbow 4 (or the other Rainbows to a large degree) have the Coyote default option, since they are explicitly presented as "all dancers barfine" type shops. So they really have no fallback position should they be unable to get sufficient numbers of hot dancers. I believe I did perhaps notice a few Coyotes in Rainbow 3 one night but its still seems rare at this point.

From Stickmans column June 17, 2012.

"K' Road is where Auckland's red light district used to be. An old mate, Nick, was a bit of a pervert who always had sex on his mind and couldn't stay focused on or talk about much else. He was a year or so older than me and had a driver's licence and a car before me. In our teens we would go cruising around K' Road late at night for a look and a laugh. I remember big, hard-looking, ugly women standing on street corners, older women, women who appeared drunk or on drugs, and transvestites. It wasn't pretty and was nothing like Bangkok's naughty nightlife areas. Or was it?

Thailand's naughty nightlife industry was never part of the country's draw when I first visited, but when a mate and I stuck our heads in Phuket's Rock Hard A Gogo in the late '90s. One of the best bars at the time. We were amazed. There were so many slim, pretty, friendly and amazingly, incredibly polite women. This was nothing like the odd strip bar we had been in back home. Not only were the girls all slim and friendly, we were told they would stay with a customer all night long and the cost was negligible. It was easy to see attraction.

The thing is, that was 15 odd years ago and things change.

The same friend I first visited Phuket with in the '90s was in Bangkok recently and escaped the clutches of his wife for a boys' night out. In the bars, he couldn't believe how things had changed. The women were big. Many were rude. Prices were high and that tenderness that Thai women are known for was gone. The women for the most part were hard. He used to see the attraction. But not now.

I don't know what all of the fuss is about with Bangkok's naughty nightlife these days. The industry has changed markedly and it seems to me that the main attraction no longer exists.

I have said for a while that the girls in the bars are much less attractive today and browsing photos I took 10+ years ago, and perusing snaps posted online from naughty boys taken 20+ years ago, one thing's clear. The women working in the bars used to be slim. Many in the bars today are overweight, even the gogo bars which seldom had fatties on stage.

Western men in Bangkok bars are bidding against each other, pushing up prices to silly levels that may exceed what you'd pay in the West. Long-time often becomes short-time and short-time seldom lasts more than 30 minutes. Amazingly a quick bonk in Bangkok can cost well in excess of $100 today, maybe as much as $150 if you include the cost of a few drinks, the barfine, a room, the girl's fee, to say nothing of amortizing the cost of air travel. Where in the Western world can you not find a quick naughty with a reasonably attractive lady for $100? Even in ultra-expensive Hong Kong you can find a stunningly attractive lady on ******, the likes of which you simply cannot find in the farang nightlife districts of Bangkok, and spend an hour. A full hour. With her for less than $75 all up.

The industry is growing, but perhaps not for the better. The major growth area in Bangkok's foreigner centric naughty nightlife has been street bars which first appeared in the Nana area a few years back. Opening late, they're all over the busy part of Sukhumvit, from the Nana intersection where they are most concentrated, down to and across the Asoke intersection, all the way to soi 22. Drinks prices on the street are much the same as in bars in the popular bar areas. You get a dirty plastic seat and scary women to keep you company. And there are barfines just the same.

What set whoring in South-East Asia apart was not so much the looks of the girls, or the cost, but the service. Specifically it was the girlfriend experience. Where the girl would stay with the customer not just for the night, but for the duration of his holiday, treating him as a real girlfriend would, perhaps even better. The girlfriend experience is all but over in Bangkok, is on the way out in Phuket and even in Pattaya, it's not that easy to find, at least not in the better bars with the pretty girls.

With higher prices for average looking women and no girlfriend experience, what's the point? Without the girlfriend experience there's a real argument that you might be better off in the West!

In the West the price includes the room and there is no barfine nonsense. There shouldn't be any communication issues. And your mattress actress won't be called in the middle of the act by some lovelorn sap half a world away crying on the phone and interrupting your session.

Earlier this week I was sitting outside a bar in Soi Cowboy, watching the world go by, taking a few snaps, just chilling. Sat nearby was an early 30s, good-looking Aussie. Judging from his accent. Who I'm sure would have no problem getting a nice girlfriend back home. He was sitting with a bird he'd just barfined from another bar. She was fat and ugly. Which I'm convinced would be an accurate description in most people's eyes. She was openly making fun of him. She asked where they would be going next, intimating that he should take her for dinner while reminding him that she had to leave him by midnight. And this was a hooker he was paying!

What I see in many Bangkok bars these days resembles what I saw on Auckland's K' Road with my old mate, Nick. Yes, you can find slim, attractive girls in the likes of Las Vegas, Billboard and Bacarra. Yes, you should be able to find a girl who is polite and sweet if you come across one fresh from the countryside who has yet to be marred by the industry and poisoned by other girls. You might be able to meet a lady to go to your room for less than it would cost in the West, if you shop around, or you wait until the end of the night. You might even be able to get a lady to spend a few days with you if you really hunt around. But getting all of these? Good luck!

Bangkok's foreigner centric bars have been turned on their head and the state of things has become the elephant in the room. Many women are seriously overweight and many are, let's be honest here, just plain ugly. The prices guys are paying in many cases are higher than what they would pay back home when you consider that they're often getting just half an hour. Many girls are hard, rude, manipulative and just plain insulting. The girlfriend experience will soon be just like Clinton Plaza and Bernard Trink, consigned to bar history. And you know things have really gone awry when there's an argument for the prettiest girls in Soi Cowboy to be found in Cockatoo. A lot of what goes on in Bangkok's foreign bar areas today is just as I remember K' Road. Farangland has been replicated in Bangkok!

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2012/Thailand-Declining-Nightlife.htm

Goatscrot

03-24-14, 02:55

The real question is. Is this the macro (multi year) trend at work? Or is this a near term issue? Or perhaps a bit of both?

Baccarra has gone downhill, that is true, and it became more noticeable after Jan 12th when the protests expanded into the 24/7 encampments and disrupting among other places the entire Soi 21 intersection. Now in regard to the macro issue, Stickman back in 2012 laid out the issue aboout as good as I've seen it with his Auckland analogy. He may overstate it a bit in regard to the particulars (comparative "western" prices, the multi day issue and so forth) but the overall macro trend seems to be described pretty well. Note that neither Baccarra or Rainbow 4 (or the other Rainbows to a large degree) have the Coyote default option, since they are explicitly presented as "all dancers barfine" type shops. So they really have no fallback position should they be unable to get sufficient numbers of hot dancers. I believe I did perhaps notice a few Coyotes in Rainbow 3 one night but its still seems rare at this point.

From Stickmans column June 17, 2012.

"K' Road is where Auckland's red light district used to be. An old mate, Nick, was a bit of a pervert who always had sex on his mind and couldn't stay focused on or talk about much else. He was a year or so older than me and had a driver's licence and a car before me. In our teens we would go cruising around K' Road late at night for a look and a laugh. I remember big, hard-looking, ugly women standing on street corners, older women, women who appeared drunk or on drugs, and transvestites. It wasn't pretty and was nothing like Bangkok's naughty nightlife areas. Or was it?

Thailand's naughty nightlife industry was never part of the country's draw when I first visited, but when a mate and I stuck our heads in Phuket's Rock Hard A Gogo in the late '90s. One of the best bars at the time. We were amazed. There were so many slim, pretty, friendly and amazingly, incredibly polite women. This was nothing like the odd strip bar we had been in back home. Not only were the girls all slim and friendly, we were told they would stay with a customer all night long and the cost was negligible. It was easy to see attraction.

The thing is, that was 15 odd years ago and things change.

The same friend I first visited Phuket with in the '90s was in Bangkok recently and escaped the clutches of his wife for a boys' night out. In the bars, he couldn't believe how things had changed. The women were big. Many were rude. Prices were high and that tenderness that Thai women are known for was gone. The women for the most part were hard. He used to see the attraction. But not now.

I don't know what all of the fuss is about with Bangkok's naughty nightlife these days. The industry has changed markedly and it seems to me that the main attraction no longer exists.

I have said for a while that the girls in the bars are much less attractive today and browsing photos I took 10+ years ago, and perusing snaps posted online from naughty boys taken 20+ years ago, one thing's clear. The women working in the bars used to be slim. Many in the bars today are overweight, even the gogo bars which seldom had fatties on stage.

Western men in Bangkok bars are bidding against each other, pushing up prices to silly levels that may exceed what you'd pay in the West. Long-time often becomes short-time and short-time seldom lasts more than 30 minutes. Amazingly a quick bonk in Bangkok can cost well in excess of $100 today, maybe as much as $150 if you include the cost of a few drinks, the barfine, a room, the girl's fee, to say nothing of amortizing the cost of air travel. Where in the Western world can you not find a quick naughty with a reasonably attractive lady for $100? Even in ultra-expensive Hong Kong you can find a stunningly attractive lady on, the likes of which you simply cannot find in the farang nightlife districts of Bangkok, and spend an hour. A full hour. With her for less than $75 all up.

The industry is growing, but perhaps not for the better. The major growth area in Bangkok's foreigner centric naughty nightlife has been street bars which first appeared in the Nana area a few years back. Opening late, they're all over the busy part of Sukhumvit, from the Nana intersection where they are most concentrated, down to and across the Asoke intersection, all the way to soi 22. Drinks prices on the street are much the same as in bars in the popular bar areas. You get a dirty plastic seat and scary women to keep you company. And there are barfines just the same.

What set whoring in South-East Asia apart was not so much the looks of the girls, or the cost, but the service. Specifically it was the girlfriend experience. Where the girl would stay with the customer not just for the night, but for the duration of his holiday, treating him as a real girlfriend would, perhaps even better. The girlfriend experience is all but over in Bangkok, is on the way out in Phuket and even in Pattaya, it's not that easy to find, at least not in the better bars with the pretty girls.

With higher prices for average looking women and no girlfriend experience, what's the point? Without the girlfriend experience there's a real argument that you might be better off in the West!

In the West the price includes the room and there is no barfine nonsense. There shouldn't be any communication issues. And your mattress actress won't be called in the middle of the act by some lovelorn sap half a world away crying on the phone and interrupting your session.

Earlier this week I was sitting outside a bar in Soi Cowboy, watching the world go by, taking a few snaps, just chilling. Sat nearby was an early 30s, good-looking Aussie. Judging from his accent. Who I'm sure would have no problem getting a nice girlfriend back home. He was sitting with a bird he'd just barfined from another bar. She was fat and ugly. Which I'm convinced would be an accurate description in most people's eyes. She was openly making fun of him. She asked where they would be going next, intimating that he should take her for dinner while reminding him that she had to leave him by midnight. And this was a hooker he was paying!

What I see in many Bangkok bars these days resembles what I saw on Auckland's K' Road with my old mate, Nick. Yes, you can find slim, attractive girls in the likes of Las Vegas, Billboard and Bacarra. Yes, you should be able to find a girl who is polite and sweet if you come across one fresh from the countryside who has yet to be marred by the industry and poisoned by other girls. You might be able to meet a lady to go to your room for less than it would cost in the West, if you shop around, or you wait until the end of the night. You might even be able to get a lady to spend a few days with you if you really hunt around. But getting all of these? Good luck!

Bangkok's foreigner centric bars have been turned on their head and the state of things has become the elephant in the room. Many women are seriously overweight and many are, let's be honest here, just plain ugly. The prices guys are paying in many cases are higher than what they would pay back home when you consider that they're often getting just half an hour. Many girls are hard, rude, manipulative and just plain insulting. The girlfriend experience will soon be just like Clinton Plaza and Bernard Trink, consigned to bar history. And you know things have really gone awry when there's an argument for the prettiest girls in Soi Cowboy to be found in Cockatoo. A lot of what goes on in Bangkok's foreign bar areas today is just as I remember K' Road. Farangland has been replicated in Bangkok!

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2012/Thailand-Declining-Nightlife.htmStick's report is spot on. The Coyote idiocy certainly adds to the woes. Why should a girl service dudes when she can make 35k a month or more just dancing? That is a very decent salary for Thailand considering median income is about 13k per month. Contrast that with gogo salaries of just 10 years ago. 6,7, and 8k for bikini, topless, and fully nude dancers.

It just gets worse and worse. Women who would have struggled to get 500 baht 10 years ago are asking and in many cases getting 2k ST. Amazing what guys will pay for an old, baby scarred woman with a bad attitude, and as Stick pointed out, some of these are younger guys. Hell, when I moved here even the 60 plus men all had pretty hot young gals. That was the reason for coming here. We have no one to blame but the punters. I find it interesting that over the last few months that the tone of this forum has swung heavily towards, "turn out the lights, the party's over."

For me as for Stick, the naughty nightlife is no longer a real attraction and certainly not the reason I live here. Love to get an oily a few times a month, but gogos, meh. Just really glad I was here for the end of the golden age of wh*ring in Thailand.

Eric Swiss

03-24-14, 04:10

Went to Nana Entertainment Plaza around 11pm. Tried Rainbow 4 but it felt too much like a factory, beautiful girls for sure but not much flirting or eye contact. Or maybe I just needed a bit of time to loosen up and get in the vibe.

So I walked around and ended up at Rainbow 2. It is slightly more intimate. I noticed a very thin girl dancing who looked pretty, number 16. Not often you see a quartic power! After a while I got her to sit next to me and offered her a lady drink. Her English was poor but enough to communicate the basics. She sidled up to me, carressed my thigh, giggled, and I was sold. We negotiated the details for short time and, just after I'd paid the bar fine, I saw a girl exactly my type, #101, go up the stage and start dancing. Darn, it's always like that! Or is it "the grass is greener" automatic regret?

Anyway, I left with #16, we went to the short-time hotel, I bought a condom, and we got into the room. She was pretty amateurish, I would say. Not the kind of professional service I normally get in massage parlors. She looked basically like a young chick who goes to the go-go bar on weekend nights to make a bit of cash. Doesn't bother me, I like a bit of freshness every once in a while. Anyway, after fucking in a few different positions, it quickly became apparent that her favorite was missionary. This is unusual for hookers as they generally prefer less intimate positions where they don't have to look at your face and smell your perfume. But that suited me fine.

It also became apparent that my drunkenness level was too low to kill my hard-on but too high to allow me to come from intercourse. It was the Goldilocks amount of alcohol for a prolonged fucking session. After a while she took off the condom and gave me a surprisingly skillfull hand job, both delicate and very fast. This achieved the desired result, and concluded the night's adventure.

All in all, I think I still prefer massage parlors, but there's something about the atmosphere of go-go bars at night where anything can happen, and usually does, which is very nice for a change. The girls was young, cute, thin and fresh, which compensated for her lack of professionalism. Rainbow 2 holds its own a more intimate alternative to Rainbow 4.

Western787

03-24-14, 04:42

Stick's report is spot on. The Coyote idiocy certainly adds to the woes. Why should a girl service dudes when she can make 35k a month or more just dancing? That is a very decent salary for Thailand considering median income is about 13k per month. Contrast that with gogo salaries of just 10 years ago. 6,7, and 8k for bikini, topless, and fully nude dancers.

It just gets worse and worse. Women who would have struggled to get 500 baht 10 years ago are asking and in many cases getting 2k ST. Amazing what guys will pay for an old, baby scarred woman with a bad attitude, and as Stick pointed out, some of these are younger guys. Hell, when I moved here even the 60 plus men all had pretty hot young gals. That was the reason for coming here. We have no one to blame but the punters. I find it interesting that over the last few months that the tone of this forum has swung heavily towards,"turn out the lights, the party's over."

For me as for Stick, the naughty nightlife is no longer a real attraction and certainly not the reason I live here. Love to get an oily a few times a month, but gogos, meh. Just really glad I was here for the end of the golden age of wh*ring in Thailand.Maybe you can get a T shirt saying: "I survived Bangkok's Golden Age of Wh*ring."

Of course it won't be completely over until the ballbusters officially turn Nana Plaza into a torture chamber and reeducation camp for mongers. To avoid the unpleasant details, ex KGB-type Russians will likely then be delegated the task of actually running the Gulag and administering daily punishment: http://blog.uvm.edu/mziegle1/files/2013/04/lisiewicz.jpg

No worries mate, because that's at least 2 to 3 years away, giving mongers plenty of time to escape the city with their balls intact.

Goatscrot

03-24-14, 05:33

Maybe you can get a T shirt saying: "I survived Bangkok's Golden Age of Wh*ring."

Of course it won't be completely over until the ballbusters officially turn Nana Plaza into a torture chamber and reeducation camp for mongers. To avoid the unpleasant details, ex KGB-type Russians will likely then be delegated the task of actually running the Gulag and administering daily punishment: http://blog.uvm.edu/mziegle1/files/2013/04/lisiewicz.jpg

No worries mate, because that's at least 2 to 3 years away, giving mongers plenty of time to escape the city with their balls intact.Considering the new feminist slant in Thai Unis (women outnumber men in Unis by quite a bit and Thailand has more women CEOs than any other nation) , I think things will continue to change far quicker than most of us would like.

Another change, most of the younger foreigners I know are just not down with mongering. I know plenty of young dudes through the music scene, foodie scene, and work who have grown up with the Western Feminist model when it comes to mongering. It is deeply engrained in their heads.

Contrast the scene now with what is was just 5 short years ago. A mere shadow in every way, shape, and form.

I would be very surprised if within a decade things have not been cleaned up considerably, at least in BKK. Pattaya may be another matter, but with the awful demographics haunting the place nowadays, who wants to go there anyway?

SuperLove

03-24-14, 07:49

Please suggest best place to visit in Bangkok, I don't mind spending but want good quality local girls. Please advise best fish bowl, how about nana center, have heard a lot about these 2 places.

Also, tell which places to avoid. Would like to visit the place around 2-5 pm.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Cheers

Mogwai

03-24-14, 08:28

Of course it won't be completely over until the ballbusters officially turn Nana Plaza into a torture chamber and reeducation camp for mongers. To avoid the unpleasant details, ex KGB-type Russians will likely then be delegated the task of actually running the Gulag and administering daily punishment: http://blog.uvm.edu/mziegle1/files/2013/04/lisiewicz.jpgAaaargh! Are these Russian Coyote dancers?

Kerrstar

03-24-14, 08:41

Another change, most of the younger foreigners I know are just not down with mongering. I know plenty of young dudes through the music scene, foodie scene, and work who have grown up with the Western Feminist model when it comes to mongering. It is deeply engrained in their heads.This is so true. Having just left Singapore after 4 years and working for a multi-national engineering firm, I found that the older guys, I. E. Me and my 35+ whyear old mates, would go out drinking and mongering on a regular basis but try to get the young guys out, no way. They would barely come out for a drink and if we then suggested OT, they weren't interested. Pretty much the same with our Thai office. We'd explain to some of the newer, younger expats that they should socialize with others in our field to understand the market, which they understood, but when they were told most guys in our field drank at Soi Cowboy they just said no. They are just not into visiting these places for a drink, let alone mongering.

I work in engineering which is one of the last of the male dominated industries around, but some of my colleagues are more girly than the ladyboys in Cockatoo!

PinkPearl

03-24-14, 09:37

Thailand's naughty nightlife industry was never part of the country's draw when I first visited, but when a mate and I stuck our heads in Phuket's Rock Hard A Gogo in the late '90s. One of the best bars at the time. We were amazed. There were so many slim, pretty, friendly and amazingly, incredibly polite women. This was nothing like the odd strip bar we had been in back home. Not only were the girls all slim and friendly, we were told they would stay with a customer all night long and the cost was negligible. It was easy to see attraction.

The thing is, that was 15 odd years ago and things change.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2012/Thailand-Declining-Nightlife.htmTo quote from the Matrix trilogy,"There are some things in this world, captain Niobe, that will never change."

Or as it concerns Thailand's mongering scene: "Same same but different".

Siam's golden age is now being replicated elsewhere on the globe in Asia. Those who do their homework in researching ISG may have the insight to discover it.

Moreover there are still guys in the Kingdom like old retired poster Daddy getting SWT for free.

Furthermore compared to what is available to them in the West, Thaksinland is still to over 90 percent of hobbyists who visit the country a diamond mine. You know, the ones that have not become battle hardened, bored, too picky, done it all already or lost their mojo.

PS for Opebo. Fashion TV also has tons of slim & anorexic girls.

CheeChee889

03-24-14, 14:10

[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited or deleted because the writing was so bad that the report was nearly impossible to comprehend.

Crocodilexp

03-24-14, 15:35

Siam's golden age is now being replicated elsewhere on the globe in Asia. Those who do their homework in researching ISG may have the insight to discover it.Where, in your opinion?

I read the forums regularly (and travel often sticking my nose into odd places) , and do not have said insight. Not Cambodia, it's in decline. Not the Philippines, in serious decline, with AC being a holdout. Not Laos, oh no, girlies are still quite underground. Not China or Vietnam for sure. Plenty of prostitutes, but quite mercenary, no trace of relaxed Thai GFE attitudes of the 1990s and early 2000s. Where! Burma? Indonesia? Saudi Arabia?

Sure, a fair number of prostitutes can be found in almost any country (with the exception of Saudi or USA) , but I haven't traveled anywhere that approaches Thailand's golden age (say, Pattaya in early 2000s) by a mile.

Golfinho

03-24-14, 16:07

Thailand's golden age (say, Pattaya in early 2000s) by a mile.Everyone's 'Golden Age' is different. Your golden Age is when you first went to a place, saw the scene discovered girls willing to have sex with you, then the novelty wears off, you see anyone with some hard currency in his pocket can do the same thing, then you come hear start saying the golden age is over. Well, it is: For You.

Member #4387

03-24-14, 17:10

By reading the latest post I guess newbee mongers would be scared away as some posters as usual from time to time hit the "everything was so much better in the good old days" button. Their negativity revolwes around its own momentum and other posters get the taste for it as well so the situation for outsiders would look like crap. It is not.

Relax folks, BKK is still one of the worlds greatest goldminds when it comes to ladies who will contribute their pussies into our great hobby against some smallish compensation. BKK is still freakin cheap and paying mostly 3k for a GFE / PSE looker girl in LT mode (10 to 20 hours, hard to say realy but mostly to long, hehe) with multiple pops and access to most things in the sex dictonary, that is not expensive. If you think so you maby consider staying home or move. Maby you could get this for a bowl of salad in the old days but thanks God people are not so poor these days as they directly have to fuck to eat.

That beeing said this report is mostly made for people like me not want to have anything to do with the girlie bars, Nana or Cowboy (maby that is shitty these days). I realy don't pay so much attention to that as it affect my mongering style to a minimum. I am happy to say my latest observations from the BKK scene (based lets say from 100+ trips, over soon 8 years) are that the FL nightclub market is blooming. I know some people will object to that but this is my observation anyway. I have 2 major clubs where I know the managment quite well (after beeing a frequent visitor and spender) and their staff knows the girls and they say the same thing as in more new girls show up these days. I know ofcourse nightclubstaffs will hardly ever talk their business down but it is correct with my observations (and I am just a coming in every now and then guy). I think more and more girls working the barscene now have moved over to the FL scene where they can be more in charge of their own time and do more like they want. I am not talking streetwalkers as they are also without interest to me. But ofcourse I write through a positive. 41 year old caucasian guys eyes. It is very easy to pick up regulars in BKK as well but ofcourse you need a minimum of game as in the rest of the world.

So cheer up guys still great time to be had. The only big and better candystore I know of, operating like I do, is Manila. Over in Phils it is crazy, a good way crazy.

Western787

03-24-14, 17:20

To quote from the Matrix trilogy,"There are some things in this world, captain Niobe, that will never change."

Or as it concerns Thailand's mongering scene: "Same same but different".

Siam's golden age is now being replicated elsewhere on the globe in Asia. Those who do their homework in researching ISG may have the insight to discover it.

Moreover there are still guys in the Kingdom like old retired poster Daddy getting SWT for free.

Furthermore compared to what is available to them in the West, Thaksinland is still to over 90 percent of hobbyists who visit the country a diamond mine. You know, the ones that have not become battle hardened, bored, too picky, done it all already or lost their mojo.

PS for Opebo. Fashion TV also has tons of slim & anorexic girls.In relative terms to the West at least to the average casual sex tourist and / or "monger", yes its probably a diamond mine for most. That is true.

However, there is no "golden age" going on elsewhere per se as far I've heard of. In fact in Sosua (Dominican Republic) there are big problems related to the cruise ship industry intending to covert the area, and in southern China, (Dongguan) a sustained multi month crackdown is underway. Burma where one would expect a golden age to begin, seems to be a disaster, with the building boom pricing everything through the roof yet with a 3rd or 4th world infrastructure still in place, and Chinese and Japanese investors overtaking the area. Cambodia is getting pricey and the NGO's have created all sort of problems there also. Nor do I believe AC another 3rd world hellhole (and not exactly improving) would be deemed to have a similar "golden age" comparable to Thailand 10 to 20 years back as many persons have described it. Although mongers living in the Phils seem to like it well enough

Paul Kausch

03-24-14, 18:11

Sure, a fair number of prostitutes can be found in almost any country (with the exception of Saudi or USA) , but I haven't traveled anywhere that approaches Thailand's golden age (say, Pattaya in early 2000s) by a mile.Salt Lake City may not be swarming with sex workers, but they are plentiful in every major USA city I've visited or lived in. I'm in South Florida now and they are very plentiful here, though mercenary attitudes are common and 90 minutes will cost the equivalent of THB9000 and up.

By reading the latest post I guess newbee mongers would be scared away as some posters as usual from time to time hit the "everything was so much better in the good old days" button. Their negativity revolwes around its own momentum and other posters get the taste for it as well so the situation for outsiders would look like crap. It is not.

So cheer up guys still great time to be had. The only big and better candystore I know of, operating like I do, is Manila. Over in Phils it is crazy, a good way crazy.Can't speak for Manila, though I've heard plenty of good things about it, but as for BKK, I heartily agree. I have no problem finding ladies with good to great attitudes. Every lady I was with in December was fun to be with, and the sex ranged from pretty good to fantastic. Perhaps there are fewer desirable ladies in the gogos, but I've stopped looking for ladies there. I was in Climax with Bo and Cheer from Bamboo one Sunday night and the venue was filled with ladies in the 6 to 8 range. They outnumbered the guys 5 to 1. Of course everything is more expensive than it was 10 years ago. Where isn't it? But I just booked a room in the Sofitel, a newer 5-star hotel right on lower Sukhumvit. I'm paying only US$111++ per night! And I'm confident I'll get a free upgrade when I check in. Not many major cities on this planet where you can get a room in a 5-star hotel in a prime location at that price. I'm looking forward to eating great food from the sidewalk stalls, and paying far less than I would for a lousy hamburger in a fast food joint in the USA. Two hours with a honey from an MP will cost one-third (or less) than 90 minutes with a hooker in South Florida, and I know the Bangkok babe will have a better attitude. Hell, for not much more than the 90 minutes with the Florida hooker costs I can book a great escort in Bangkok for overnight.

Relatively speaking Bangkok is a low cost travel destination with a great sex scene. As for the attitudes of the ladies, what goes around comes around. If you have a good attitude you're more likely to be pleased with the lady's attitude. But don't be foolish and think one can have the same experience on the same budget as 5 or 10 years ago.

Thailand is developing. There are plenty of employment options. For decades now women in Issan have been having smaller and smaller families. Bangkok is still a great destination; I expect it still will be in 5 years; and I expect in 5 years guys will be complaining that it is not as good as it was 5 years ago.

When I was a kid my father used to feed me this crap about it was better when he was growing up. He was growing up in the fucking 1930s during the USA depression! He also told me sometimes he'd eat green beans three meals a day five days a week and feel fortunate his family had a garden so they had food to eat. Right, it sure sounds like it was better when he was growing up. Ah for the good old days.

Shazaam1971

03-24-14, 18:29

Hi everyone,

This is my first post and I wanted to start by thanking all of your for the great information I have enjoyed! I am preparing to make Bangkok my home and although it is a dream come true, it also means that I will never again be able to enjoy all that the city has to offer with anonymity. I will have to be very careful regarding where I am seen due to my employment and exposure. I have begun to think critically about how to continue the hobby with as little risk as possible. Cowboy, known oilies and the like are unfortunately out. I have found some fun FS times on my travels with the regular massage shops but of course that is hit and miss and it kind of zaps the fun when you must be quiet on a small mat. Is there a scene that fits the bill where one can go during the day (nights are out too unfortunately) with very little risk of being seen. A more local area would very much fit the bill. I must watch out for Farang eyes who might know who I am.

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to becoming a contributor!

Shaz

Member #4387

03-24-14, 18:54

Of course everything is more expensive than it was 10 years ago. Where isn't it? But I just booked a room in the Sofitel, a newer 5-star hotel right on lower Sukhumvit. I'm paying only US$111++ per night! And I'm confident I'll get a free upgrade when I check in. Not many major cities on this planet where you can get a room in a 5-star hotel in a prime location at that price. I'm looking forward to eating great food from the sidewalk stalls, and paying far less than I would for a lousy hamburger in fast food joint in the USA. Two hours with a honey from an MP will cost one-third (or less) than 90 minutes with a hooker in South Florida, and I know the Bangkok babe will have a better attitude. Hell, for not much more than the 90 minutes with the Florida hooker costs I can book a great escort in Bangkok for overnight.

Relatively speaking Bangkok is a low cost travel destination with a great sex scene. As for the attitudes of the ladies, what goes around comes around. If you have a good attitude you're more likely to be pleased with the lady's attitude. But don't be foolish and think one can have the same experience on the same budget as 5 or 10 years ago.

Thailand is developing. There are plenty of employment options. For decades now women in Issan have been having smaller and smaller families. Bangkok is still a great destination; I expect it still will be in 5 years; and I expect in 5 years guys will be complaining that it is not as good as it was 5 years ago.

When I was a kid my father used to feed me this crap about it was better when he was growing up. He was growing up in the fucking 1930s during the USA depression! He also told me sometimes he'd eat green beans three meals a day five days a week and feel fortunate his family had a garden so they had food to eat. Right, it sure sounds like it was better when he was growing up. Ah for the good old days.My observations reaches 8 years back when I first started to hit BKK and for the pricing of top ends hotel I think it was relatively more expensive 8 years back then it is today (due to stronger competition today. Demos, floods and in general an unruly gvm ofcourse have brought visitors down atleast into BKK itself). The prices in BHT have been almost the same. For my earlier monger hotel Grand President a deluxe suite costed 2200 incl taxes and still do today (is it more expensive or cheaper today relatively speaking?). For the girls I started with picking a FL girl from Thermae if I remember correctly and I gave her 3K back then and I still do pay the girls 3k in general for real LT play. I pick from every known FL nightclub there is but ofcourse staying many times over the years in Grand President most of my picks have come from Climax. Still 3k compensation. I NEVER discuss price upfront just a hand out when they leave and I have yet, as far as I remember, to see a girl have been unhappy.

Earlier years Spasso in Hyatt Erewan was a typical 5K LT pickup place. Girls pimping themself more up in coctail dresses. The latest years easy to have girls here for 3 to 4K? Have it become cheaper or more expensive? The number and quality of girls same same from my observation. Even had 2 FL`s from spasso for 6K (gave them 3 each).

Once again maby the girls under the barfinesystem one way or another have become more expensive, well it does no affect me as if I meet girls operating in this scene I meet them when they change into the FL scene. Even btls of vodka I think run in the same pricerange than I first started to come here (in the clubs that is).

I am not arguing that in general BKK have become more expensive (I would not have a clue regarding lets say typical living expenses as that does not realy affect me either since I am so lucky I can come and go as I like). What is important to me when in BKK are hotels, taxies, booze, western food, Kamagra and FL thai girls and prices here are still surprisingly cheap.

11Bravo

03-24-14, 19:28

Please suggest best place to visit in BangkokGiven that this is an almost identical post to the one on the Bangkok Massage Parlors - Except TULIP and ANNIES! thread, I've answered it there:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1421-Bangkok-Massage-Parlors-Except-TULIP-and-ANNIES!&p=1546616&viewfull=1#post1546616

Paul Kausch

03-24-14, 20:24

My observations reaches 8 years back when I first started to hit BKK and for the pricing of top ends hotel I think it was relatively more expensive 8 years back then it is today (due to stronger competition today.

I am not arguing that in general BKK have become more expensive (I would not have a clue regarding lets say typical living expenses as that does not realy affect me either since I am so lucky I can come and go as I like). What is important to me when in BKK are hotels, taxies, booze, western food, Kamagra and FL thai girls and prices here are still surprisingly cheap.I think a taxi from the airport to lower Suk costs about THB50 more than a couple of years ago. Big deal.

You may be right about the hotels; and the good news is there is about to be another round of hotel development in Bangkok and Pattaya. So downward pressure on prices will continue.

I think long time expats and sex tourists have different perspectives. Expats live in BKK and experience the rising cost of living as the standard of living of the average Thai improves. We live in relatively expensive parts of the world, Northern Europe and North America. We fly in, fuck and fly out. Most things in Bangkok seem cheap to us.

I had a great time in December and can't wait until June and my next visit; and every visit I try to stretch out longer and make more time for mongering. Frankly, I don't recall ever hearing a first time sex tourist complain about Bangkok's P4P scene. In December I was having a drink at Dr BJ's Salon waiting to go upstairs and bang a consultant in the VIP room. Two young guys, first time visitors, had just finished getting a BJ and were enjoying a drink. They had grins that stretched from one ear to the other. Both emphatically said they found Bangkok's sex scene to be even better than they expected.