Bangkok Reports [Archive] - Page 12 - InternationalSexGuide

M P Lurker

08-05-08, 12:55

I missed Stickmans weekly column for some weeks now - so I had some reading to do today. One of his pieces is [again] about one very old and often repeated issue: Sponsorship.

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickMarkII/BargirlSponsorshipDoesntWork.htm

Remarkable is that even if the male part of the sponsorship contract finds out the truth he tends not to believe it and hopes to somehow make the relationship work. And even worse - getting a PE involved to check out the background of a girl, finding then that she has many sponsors, and still not believing it - this cannot happen to all of you readers, I know, but I see it happening so many times :(:(:( ...

Read it - AND KEEP IT IN MIND.

Giotto
"Sponsership doesn't work!".
Work in what sense? What would the expectation be?
Obviously a girl is interested in a guy for some reason.
It would clearly be money if he has nothing else to offer. Thats partly why rich guys get hot girls.

But it doesn't buy the girl and get exclusive rights. We don't know what she is doing when we are not there.
Its not even worth worrying about.

The more money that is paid, the sooner the girl will leave if she has reached her immediate money target. Drip feed may keep her hanging on for longer. Buying her a house should normally lead to instantly being dumped.

A hot girl can always collect additional guys or richer replacements.

So the problem with supporting a girl too well, is that if leaves you not knowing why she wants you at all and how long it will last. On the other if you never help a girl that is worse off than yourself, you will be a stingy bastard. If she still wants you, then the reason will still be unclear.

If a stunning girl likes you who doesn't need financial support, then you know its not for financial reasons. This is tough for an old ugly guy to achieve.

Its all straight forward really, well sort of.

When a girl with big money problems doesn't ask a guy for money knowing that she could easily get it, that is perplexing. Its called "greng jai". Or she could be so smart that she knows she can get it without asking.

When a girl needs money desperately but pushes the guy and his money away, that means she has a much better source or means in rare cases that she doesn't think it is the right thing to suck money out of someone else, but needs to focus on staying within her own means.
Such a person exists.

A girl could be playing up just as we do.
Its hyporitical to be too worried about this.

Easy2007

08-05-08, 13:05

What makes this forum so "interesting" are debates such as this; between "privileged" elitists like Giotto, smug as he is in his palatial digs on soi 33, surrounded my all those "classy", over-priced beauties, and the "back-to-nature", simple-living Farang Bugsida, living with their ugly, ex-BG, Isaan farm wives in some backwater, Isaan shithole. Of course, I'm sure they have the big "baan Farang" in the village and are the envy of everyone, not to mention possessing, as they do heaps of genuine grass-roots knowledge of Thai/Isaan culture.

Ya. t'aint nothin' better than gettin' down wit' da locals.A very interesting post OTH, and it likely says more about you and your feelings as to anything else.

It is often the case that the "poor farangs" married to Thai's tend to hide away in Bangkok. Nobody really knows anyone, no family are around, you can live a very simple life on the small salary and nobody is playing the traditional Thai game of "I have more than you have".

Back in Isaan everyone knows everyone, and there are "shows of wealth" in terms of house size, car size, number of cars, how much gold etc. And for a "poor farang" married to an Isaan girl it must be hell.

Which is why they all tend to talk down Isaan and run away to live in Bangkok where they can be as anonymous as they want to, and live their simple life.

Given the venom of your posts against Isaan, one can safely, I feel, assume that you have been "embarrassed" by the farangs and their wives and their wealth in Isaan, and prefer you anonymous life in Bangkok, hiding away, and this is the reason for your hate of all things Isaan.

?

Member #3428

08-05-08, 13:54

"Sponsership doesn't work!".
Work in what sense? What would the expectation be?
Obviously a girl is interested in a guy for some reason.
It would clearly be money if he has nothing else to offer. Thats partly why rich guys get hot girls.

But it doesn't buy the girl and get exclusive rights. We don't know what she is doing when we are not there.
Its not even worth worrying about.

The more money that is paid, the sooner the girl will leave if she has reached her immediate money target. Drip feed may keep her hanging on for longer. Buying her a house should normally lead to instantly being dumped.

A hot girl can always collect additional guys or richer replacements.

So the problem with supporting a girl too well, is that if leaves you not knowing why she wants you at all and how long it will last. On the other if you never help a girl that is worse off than yourself, you will be a stingy bastard. If she still wants you, then the reason will still be unclear.

If a stunning girl likes you who doesn't need financial support, then you know its not for financial reasons. This is tough for an old ugly guy to achieve.

Its all straight forward really, well sort of.

When a girl with big money problems doesn't ask a guy for money knowing that she could easily get it, that is perplexing. Its called "greng jai". Or she could be so smart that she knows she can get it without asking.

When a girl needs money desperately but pushes the guy and his money away, that means she has a much better source or means in rare cases that she doesn't think it is the right thing to suck money out of someone else, but needs to focus on staying within her own means.
Such a person exists.

A girl could be playing up just as we do.
Its hyporitical to be too worried about this.

I agree Mick but I'll chime in my two cents also.... There are also sometimes when there are two sides to the story and if the girl goes out then sometimes it is the guys fault. Even a girl who you care about and support or help out can get even or go out to hurt the guy at times and sometimes the guys deserve it. When guys are hurt they jump the BTS to the nearest MP... sometimes the girls do it too but only when it is more dramatic a reason IMHO. It is hypocritical to think only a guy can screw around. Sometimes a guy gets what he deserves. Atleast that is my POV. Just because you pay them does not mean you own them and sometimes it is not about the money or the sex that they are going after. Sometimes it is for other reasons.

And for guys to turn their back on girls who do this I think is wrong, we are in the mongering game but we expect the girls to be virgins until we screw them and remain virgins forever until it is our turn inside her. At times it can make the relationship stronger and more powerful when there is such drama in one's relationship. It is how you react and fix the issues that will determine if you have a relationship or if you are being taken.

To each his own... As long as you only offer what you want to offer and give what you want to give...

Retired Army

08-05-08, 16:11

Nobody ever said the HiSo crowd weren't mean-spirited, miserly and selfish. They didn't get rich by being nice.

Both ends of the social spectrum in this country are scum. It's only the middle class who are worth a damn and who carry most of the burdens of the country.

Yeah, but these people are middle class. Or at least trying to appear so. I just don't think they have any class in general. I dropped 10K on the mom and I only met the old lady once.

1Ball

08-05-08, 16:28

Tansak, I really don't know much about sponsoring a WG, although I do send my GF in Indonesia 300 USD per month. With that, she pays all the house expenses, water, electricity, maid, etc, and also works with me full time. She considers it good money, and hardly ever asks me for anything over and above, except a custom wet suit last month. she is home every night, chatting with me on yahoo.

I think the point of sponsorship, to give the girl a monthly amount, for most guys, is to replace the money the WG is making in the bars. He wants her to stop working, and to be with him exclusively. We have all seen videos on Utube, showing the WG talking to her sponsor on the phone, naked, after just had sex with a punter, telling him to be quiet, as she swears eternal love, and tells the unsuspecting guy she is at home alone, staring lovingly at his pics. I believe the sponsor is trying to keep her for himself, yes, and therefore gives her enough money for her to not NEED to go out and work. Of course, we all know this never happens, and articles like the one Giotto posted a link to in Stickman's site, only make me shake my head in wonder. How can a guy be so stupid to think a WG, who has been on the game for years, will stop working after she has known a man for a couple of weeks? Sending a WG money, and hoping she will not work, IMO, only invite her to despise the guy, and try to milk him for as much as possible.

It makes no sense to me whatsoever. But some of these girls are smart, very smart. I wonder how successful they would be if they took their smarts into the real world.

I agree Mick but I'll chime in my two cents also.... There are also sometimes when there are two sides to the story and if the girl goes out then sometimes it is the guys fault. Even a girl who you care about and support or help out can get even or go out to hurt the guy at times and sometimes the guys deserve it. When guys are hurt they jump the BTS to the nearest MP... sometimes the girls do it too but only when it is more dramatic a reason IMHO. It is hypocritical to think only a guy can screw around. Sometimes a guy gets what he deserves. Atleast that is my POV. Just because you pay them does not mean you own them and sometimes it is not about the money or the sex that they are going after. Sometimes it is for other reasons.

And for guys to turn their back on girls who do this I think is wrong, we are in the mongering game but we expect the girls to be virgins until we screw them and remain virgins forever until it is our turn inside her. At times it can make the relationship stronger and more powerful when there is such drama in one's relationship. It is how you react and fix the issues that will determine if you have a relationship or if you are being taken.

To each his own... As long as you only offer what you want to offer and give what you want to give...

Member #3428

08-05-08, 16:58

Oh Brother of mine... Of course what you say is all true.

I just stated that there can be two sides to every story and not every situation is identical. There are always exceptions to every rule and the first rule I follow is that she will not be a wife. But a few baht each month is nothing, and if you pay her by # of shots I get in then she'd be getting up there in the dollar figure during a two week trip. Sorry but dropping those 100 lbs really added to my #'s...

And in my opinion it is often hypocritical of guys to expect the girls to stop working over night or stop at all. Some of these guys here have dated a MP girl doing a few customers a day. As I said, as long as you can afford it and you are happy to give it then WTF... You still are not buying a used or new car. There are no ownership papers and I think many mongers get hypocritical really fast. Many of these hypocrites are the ones cheating on their wives when they find out a WG they send 100 baht to is still working.... And yes, while we are screwing them they are screwing us... Opebo might be right with the 500 baht china town ladies... But basically if you do the math out and you think about paying per shot, it is sometimes cheaper to pay a few baht each month to a girl especially if the chemistry is there. And if you want to pay some education after a while then great or whatever. And if she wants to stop all customers after some time then fine.

It definitely takes longer then three weeks and expect bumps and curves and crashes in the road form both sides. Mixed relationships can be volatile IMHO or at least with my culture mixed with asian culture. But just because you run into a bump does that mean you throw the car away? For those guys who are married did you get married after three weeks? I doubt it.. relationships take time especially considering WG's. And for those that say they can not work, many do not, but some do. My track record on long term is 0 for 1 (in thai, PI and China are different stories) while I'm working on the second strike... But mongering and finding the ones that you want to keep around can be half the fun and take a while.... And as long as this second one is getting something out of it to help her or her family then I am OK with what I am doing and I could give a rats butt what others think.

And if you've ever gone and met the family upcountry,,, then you've really had an eye opener.

Tansak, I really don't know much about sponsoring a WG, although I do send my GF in Indonesia 300 USD per month. With that, she pays all the house expenses, water, electricity, maid, etc, and also works with me full time. She considers it good money, and hardly ever asks me for anything over and above, except a custom wet suit last month. she is home every night, chatting with me on yahoo................It makes no sense to me whatsoever. But some of these girls are smart, very smart. I wonder how successful they would be if they took their smarts into the real world.

Sanook D

08-05-08, 17:16

Nobody ever said the HiSo crowd weren't mean-spirited, miserly and selfish. They didn't get rich by being nice.

No, mostly they got rich by being born, and have a lifelong sense of entitlement. This being Asia, they also have a strong, almost innate understanding of competition for scarce resources, and are very keen to keep kicking at the people just below them on the ladder (a habit one finds in every social class here).

Does this discussion really belong on Bangkok Reports? I just got myself a bit of leave from the family, and was checking this thread to see what's up on the BKK bar scene before heading to the meatier stuff at Living in Thailand, Thai Women, and Thai Politics. Just sayin'. . .

1Ball

08-05-08, 18:14

You make a very good point, Tansak, however, I was not talking about nice girls, I was talking about the mean b*tches, who pull a man into their web. I was talking about the kind of girl found in Stickman's story.

Do you remember a few months ago, a member posted a link to his blog, I think he was from Finland, or Norway, not a regular contributor to the LOS thread, however. He had met this girl, fallen in love with her, sent all his money over to buy a house, she even showed him fake documents, and the house. All smoke and mirrors of course, there was no house, and she cleaned out the bank account he had set up for her to buy the house, and renovate.

If I remember correctly, she even managed to produce fake documents stating he was a signer on the bank account. I guess they had gone to the bank together to open said account, but since all papers were in Thai, he didn't know what he was signing. He thought he was opening an account, but was probably filling out some kind of loan application.

His plan was to move to Thailand, live with her, have a great life with her, etc. He was devastated when he found out there was no house, no money, no girl....

If a man has entered into an agreement with a girl, that he will support her, and she is to not go out, then that is the agreement. If, however, he sends her 5,000 Bt per month, as a nice gesture, just becasue he wants to help, then the relationship is completely different, and he should not expect her to stay home and twiddle her thumbs.

And there lies the rub.

I suggest we move this to opinions and advice, if we wish to continue this discussion.

Zde

08-05-08, 21:33

Fast Eddie 48

08-05-08, 22:33

Nikyok

08-05-08, 23:46

Berty Boy

08-06-08, 00:23

Hello everyone: I am coming to Bkk in the end of August, can someone recommend decent hotel for 600 bahts or less please? The hotel should have a safe at the reception, it should be clean, allow guest free of charge, the room should have a shower with hot watter and should have an airconditioner. Many thanks for your advice.

You could try this site. www.bangkoknighttours.com. I doubt you will find anything that cheap close to the main entertainment areas. I came across this site while looking for a hotel for myself. There are a few hotels in the Khaosan Road area for 10pounds/night, around the Pratunam area if you can stretch your budget a bit more, and one in the Phra khanong but if it's not close to the skytrain and you don't speak any Thai, it can be a real ***** getting to and from.

Terry Terrier

08-06-08, 00:46

It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

It makes no sense to me either. I have talked at length with guys who send regular money to their sweeties, and I am no wiser as to the logic of it. Surely it's better to let your sweetheart carry on doing her own thing until you are both ready to make a definitive move? Isn't this the normal way of romances? If she didn't want to wait, it wasn't really love, was it? Saved yourself from a lot of heartache.

But some of these girls are smart, very smart. I wonder how successful they would be if they took their smarts into the real world.

Quite a few, on a reasonably level playing field in a sponsor's country, are very successful, and many of the most successful ones are (as flagged up by D) arseholes who treat most of their fellow expat employees poorly.

Skeeter

08-06-08, 01:21

Hello everyone: I am coming to Bkk in the end of August, can someone recommend decent hotel for 600 bahts or less please? The hotel should have a safe at the reception, it should be clean, allow guest free of charge, the room should have a shower with hot watter and should have an airconditioner. Many thanks for your advice.

You are stretching things a long way here! - The 2 short time hotels not far from NEP (PB or Penthouse) meet your conditions reasonably well.

Clean, AC, Shower, Tv (maybe no window though)

... and come in at 740 baht a night. You won't get cheaper around here.

Be aware though that they are designed as ST places - I'm not sure how comfortable LT will be.

Washburn

08-06-08, 02:22

Hello everyone: I am coming to Bkk in the end of August, can someone recommend decent hotel for 600 bahts or less please? The hotel should have a safe at the reception, it should be clean, allow guest free of charge, the room should have a shower with hot watter and should have an airconditioner. Many thanks for your advice.I think the Honey Hotel on Soi 19 may have 800 baht rooms near the carpark.

But really, Bangkok may not fit your budget.

You might just want to spend the day in Bangkok then take the bus to Pattaya (118 baht for the busfare). You can get a room with a shower, room safe, aircon, and free wireless internet at the Queen Victoria for 500 baht (their cheapest room. Most expensive is 800) on Soi Six, and there are beach road girls at 500 baht. In Bangkok 1000 baht is the starting rate for freelancers on Sukhumvit; the prettier girls want more usually. The go-go bars, and beer bars are cheaper in Pattaya too.

NicFrenchy

08-06-08, 03:29

It makes no sense to me either. I have talked at length with guys who send regular money to their sweeties, and I am no wiser as to the logic of it. Surely it's better to let your sweetheart carry on doing her own thing until you are both ready to make a definitive move? Isn't this the normal way of romances? If she didn't want to wait, it wasn't really love, was it? Saved yourself from a lot of heartache.

Sponsorship, in my opinion is not that bad a thing if you live in the same city as the girl and can see her often (or live with her). Sending money from overseas is just plain stupid, especially if the lady you sponsor is (was) a working girl.

I have gigs in a few cities in Thailand (yes, I am a horndog) and never paid them a dime as far as sponsorship goes. When I am with them, I pay for everything (restaurants, excursions, clothes...) but when I am not, they are free to do whatever they please. Some of them have steady boyfriends so do not need the cash. One of them actually has an Italian sponsor, she hates the guy because everytime he comes to Thailand (2 times a year) he just wants to fuck her many times a day. When I asked her why she stayed with him her reply was exactly what I expected: he pay for my appartment, university and send money every month.

If you are abroad, don't be foolish sending money and wait until you move to Thailand where, there are a lot of very good girls (not ex bgs) willing to accept a farang.

Daddy07

08-06-08, 03:44

...One of them actually has an Italian sponsor, she hates the guy because everytime he comes to Thailand (2 times a year) he just wants to fuck her many times a day. When I asked her why she stayed with him her reply was exactly what I expected: he pay for my appartment, university and send money every month...

He pays for her apartment, university, and sends money every month, but the sap wants to fuck her while he's here so she hates him. That says it all about "sponsorship" IMHO.

How can you stand being with that person?

M P Lurker

08-06-08, 04:16

Sending money from overseas is just plain stupid, especially if the lady you sponsor is (was) a working girl.

There is a sense to it. Its just a donation to help out someone short of cash. It may allow them to not work and be lazy instead. It doesn't achieve anything much and certainly doesn't stop them having fun with someone else.
Its like sponsoring a child in Africa except that you know the person receiving the money.

Its not sending a girl money that is a problem. The problem is that the guy may develop expections that he is "buying something" where he is actually getting nothing for the money. A GF is more expensive than P4P, so will never be value for money.
But many guys want to pay the girl extra to stop messing with other guys. If this your aim, then it can easily fail. It could work if she doesn't really want to do anyone, but then who wants a girl that is not at all horny?

Its a lot easier to pay P4P girls on a per fuck basis.

Betong

08-06-08, 04:24

Both ends of the social spectrum in this country are scum.What a silly prejudice. A bit burned out on Thailand, are we?

I don't know about your job, but in mine I deal with people from every strata of Thai society on a daily basis, and have been doing so since there really wasn't a middle class here. Some of the most truly decent and generous people I've met have been from the very bottom of the heap. I've also met enough extremely impressive and sympathetic people among the nominally hi-so that I've developed a certain tolerance toward the awful ones, who I admit are pretty thoroughly awful. And I've met no lack of really nasty middle-class types of the grasping, upward-mobile, wannabe-nouveau-riche type. There's just no generalizing.

Retired Army

08-06-08, 07:03

Retired Army

08-06-08, 07:06

I think the Honey Hotel on Soi 19 may have 800 baht rooms near the carpark.

But really, Bangkok may not fit your budget.

I stayed in the Honey Hotel my first night in Thailand in 1973. Had a ST there a year or so ago and it hasn't changed any in 35 years. Not even the sheets on the bed.

DRRonin

08-06-08, 07:23

TBut many guys want to pay the girl extra to stop messing with other guys. If this your aim, then it can easily fail.

I agree with this but you know I am basically rooting for the girls in this whole thing. Most guys send money because it makes them feel good - white knights rescuing the wayward damsel - and it makes them feel happy thinking about this girl in Thailand. Sure eventually many of them receive a rude awakening but such is life - it happens in every kind of relationship and in every strata of society. In the meantime the girls are getting your money and having themselves a good time, giving some to their family, buying bottles of whiskey for their friends and helping the Thai economy. Guys hopefully don't give more than they can afford and it gives the girls a little security every time the rent is due and knowing they don't have to worry every night about getting a customer. Good for them. Most of the girls I have met over many years coming to Thailand are pretty good sorts over all, but they play the system for what its worth because they know life isn't fair and if some farang sends them money because he is in love with them well that's business. In their eyes it's not malicious - its just how its done.

I talk to a lot of girls that I have gotten to know about this kind of stuff and many of them tell me that they are getting money from someone and in many cases more than one. It's a game to them and the more guys sending you money the better you are at it. Its a point of pride. They find it kind of funny. But there are all kinds - I know of 2 girls who got a sponsor and immediately quit the biz and went back home - I know of a couple who get sizable monthly amounts and still dabble but mainly come out just to hang out with their friends - its way too boring for them to stay at home waiting for honey to call. I know this one girl who is as sweet as pie and has a fiance in the US sending her 40,000 baht a month but she still works 3-4 nights a week - and tells me with a wide smile and a giggle that she knows she is a "bad girl" - but she says you never know when the money will stop and then where will she be - in the meantime she is going to make as much money as her small body and very willing mouth will manage.

Jimmy Red Cab

08-06-08, 12:58

M P Lurker

08-06-08, 13:49

I agree with this but you know I am basically rooting for the girls in this whole thing. Most guys send money because it makes them feel good - white knights rescuing the wayward damsel - and it makes them feel happy thinking about this girl in Thailand.
Right now I have been sponsoring a girl in a small way that I can afford to get a little business started in return for precisely nothing. So I am not kidding myself that I will get anything back for sure. Maybe maintaining a friend (with no sex). But we have been friends already for 6 years. But it seems less hopeless than sponsoring an unknown in a foreign Country.

Old Thai Hand

08-06-08, 14:11

What a silly prejudice. A bit burned out on Thailand, are we?...There's just no generalizing.

True about generalizations. I've had a particularly bad week with the HiSo crowd.I

But, if you don't know my job, you haven't been reading this forum for long, have you?:)

Pleasure69

08-06-08, 14:14

There are many hotels that fit your requirement, but they aren't going to be close to anything and you will be the only Farang. If you don't speak or read Thai you will be at a disadvantage.Station Hotel (just oposite main train station. Hualampong) have rooms for 250 Bath. Fan & bathroom. But 50 m from the hotel is Underground train, walking distance to Patpong. Walking distance to China Town.

Enjoy!

Pleasure69

08-06-08, 14:16

Station Hotel. Just oposite main train station Hualampong have rooms for 250 Baths (simple room with fan & bathroom).

Walking distance to Patpong, China Town and 50 m to Underground Train.

Sammon

08-06-08, 14:34

After mongering a long time and having different girls in every trip and some so called GF's I would say why people send girls money.
1. They want a friendly loving face to meet them at the airport.
2. Having a local girl who takes care of everything including laundry is
unbeatable.
3. When I had a GF in Thailand she would carry my money and wallet all the
time and she paid the check and all expenses from that. When I was
leaving she will give me an account of what she spent and give me back
the balance.
4. Not necessary to use condom. My Gf took birth control pills, she says
only when I come to visit.
5. If you are into travelling all over Thailand nothing beats a local girl
as companion. You will be treated differently.
6. As you all know how clingy and gfe the Thai girls are.
Having said these, I never sent money online. I only gave money when I
am with them.
As to the chances of them hooking on the side, It is very tempting
for the girls. They know their beauty and age will catch up on them.
Nowadays you cannot even believe your girlfriends here in western
countries , who they are sleeping with on the side.

If a guy sends money to have a Gf when he in Thailand knowing all these
good for him. All of us do not want him being naieve and getting hurt
badly thinking the girl loves him and stay chaste for him.

Fresh Meat 2

08-06-08, 23:37

You've got to wonder if these farang "investigators" have ever found a sponsored girl who *wasn't* still on the game.A good friend of mine worked as a Private eye in Bangkok for many years until he returned to NZ 3 or 4 years ago. He specialised in checking on thai bar girls activities whilst their teeruk (s) were in their homeland.

From the numerous conversations he and I have had in regards to him doing these checks, I think it is fair to say in the 100s/1000s of investigations he did, the % of girls that were still selling their pussy in one way or another was 100%.

I know some of you may may think that I have exaggerated the % of girls that fall into this category, I can assure you I have not.

Betong

08-07-08, 02:29

But, if you don't know my job, you haven't been reading this forum for long, have you?:)Well I know what your job is but my point was that I wasn't going to presume to know how much contact it gave you with the various classes here, especially the lower ones. But I sympathize. My oldest friend here is effectively a dean at shall we say a highly prestigious uni, and just seeing some of the hi-so politics he has to play . . . well, it'd drive me postal.

(I used to be active on this forum under another name till about three years ago when the girlfriend moved in and I decided to be a little more discreet. But she's gone now and I'm baaaaack!)

Washburn

08-07-08, 04:21

I agree with this but you know I am basically rooting for the girls in this whole thing. Most guys send money because it makes them feel good - white knights rescuing the wayward damsel -.I think the rescue fantasy is very powerful, and the Thai girls really fit the bill perfectly: delicate, innocent, fragile, sweet-natured, clingy - you get the idea.

I root for the girls too - I hope they all save enough to build houses and open salons and shops - but sometimes I get seduced by that rescue fantasy and go one step further than just paying them for their services, and try to fix their little lives.

It is possible to get them out of the bar scene - although not easy because a lot of forces conspire to put them into it in the first place - just remember that no good deed goes unpunished.

It's probably better to try to help them in smaller ways - things like dental work (quite cheap in Thailand), and language lessons - when smitten by their charms but, alas, that's often easier said than done.

Old Thai Hand

08-07-08, 05:37

Most guys send money because it makes them feel good

Having supported several Thai girls over my years here, I've always viewed it much like the 'Save The Children Fund'.

1/ Do it because you genuinely want to help someone in need.
2/ Do it for someone who is doing something constructive with the money, i.e. bettering themselves. For example, I sponsored several girls who wanted to further their education.
3/ Never do it, if you expect something back in return.
4/ Also, be careful who you're supporting (IMO - under no circumstances. P4P)

BKK Dreaming

08-07-08, 06:01

when we were in grade school we collected money for "pagan babies"

To save the poor heathen , non christian souls around the world ,

I guess this is supporting BKK pagan babies :)

Just as in the USA , you wish the Thai government would spend money educating the young and not spend most of its money on the military etc,

So I figure the few times I have helped out a TG it my way of giving like when we were kids , hopefully it helped them in the long run....

Simple yes, but why think too much

BK

Lover Boy #2

08-07-08, 08:48

I wanna visit Thailand soon. I think its cheaper than other places. But what about enviroment of rooms? And what about the girls health controls for sex? Is it safe to hang around with girls in Thailand?

Yes, it is cheaper than a lot of other places like western Europe for example......as to the environment of the rooms....you have anything from shite hole to 5 star with good environmental controls to keep the pollution from the outside...out........health controls for sex......very poor.....a very high percentage of girls rate you as a good looking, clean guy....and immediately begin to place your rock hard penis inside their pussy with no condom........"safe to hang around"?.....yes.....but be careful of the "live for today" attitude...and some pros who might put you into a bad situation if you appear as a total "Newman".

M P Lurker

08-07-08, 09:43

Having supported several Thai girls over my years here, I've always viewed it much like the 'Save The Children Fund'.

1/ Do it because you genuinely want to help someone in need.
2/ Do it for someone who is doing something constructive with the money, i.e. bettering themselves. For example, I sponsored several girls who wanted to further their education.
3/ Never do it, if you expect something back in return.
4/ Also, be careful who you're supporting (IMO - under no circumstances. P4P)
I agree with most of this.
Helping an ex-P4P avoid returning to P4P seems O.K. to me. The Thai-Yai girl I assisted was in P4P 6 years ago and she doesn't want to return to it, but rather run a little business to sell stuff.

Daddy07

08-07-08, 09:57

...4/ Also, be careful who you're supporting (IMO - under no circumstances. P4P)

What???

Don't you know that p4p is the sincerest form of sponsorship? :D

Old Thai Hand

08-07-08, 12:46

What???

Don't you know that p4p is the sincerest form of sponsorship? :D

Actually, as my balcony overlooks Klong Toey, I've taken to just tossing money to the heaving masses below, much like Caesar tossing bread to the crowds at the Colosseum.

So, if I happen to hit a P4P girl down there, by accident, so be it. :D

Patterson

08-07-08, 16:38

Could anybody tell me if its free to take girls back to the Bel Aire Princess i think the name is Sukhumvit soi 5

Thanks

Retired Army

08-07-08, 17:22

It is possible to get them out of the bar scene - although not easy because a lot of forces conspire to put them into it in the first place - just remember that no good deed goes unpunished.

You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't get the bar out of the girl.

DRRonin

08-07-08, 22:24

I think the rescue fantasy is very powerful, and the Thai girls really fit the bill perfectly: delicate, innocent, fragile, sweet-natured, clingy - you get the idea.

I root for the girls too - I hope they all save enough to build houses and open salons and shops - but sometimes I get seduced by that rescue fantasy and go one step further than just paying them for their services, and try to fix their little lives.

I think most of us have at some point if you have spent enough time there. If you have a heart its hard not to be sucked in or suckered in. And at the end of the day its really not a lot of money to most of us unless you go idiotically overboard. On the few occasions I have sent money after hearing a sad plea that would make a crocodile cry all I hope is that they had a good time with it and bought themselves something nice. I have no illusions about them saving it or getting them out of their current business activities.

One thing that always fascinates me though is what happens to the girls. I've been coming to Thailand for about 15 years now and in that time have seen wave after wave of new girls replace the older ones. And I rarely come across ones from years previously. So I wonder if their stories ended happily or tragically - did they go back home and set up a buisness, get married to a farang, commit suicide, find a job in a beauty parlor or just keep doing the same thing but somewhere else. I'd love to see a study on the migration of bar girls or see a series of films like Michael Apted directed where he follows the lives of some people and sees where they are every 7 years - except with bar girls. I sometimes think these girls are the strongest people mentally in the world - to get up every day and know the best thing ahead of you is being screwed by some stranger and do it day after day without cracking up kind of amazes me.

Terry Terrier

08-08-08, 00:36

Actually, as my balcony overlooks Klong Toey, I've taken to just tossing money to the heaving masses below, much like Caesar tossing bread to the crowds at the Colosseum.

So, if I happen to hit a P4P girl down there, by accident, so be it. :D

Blimey! 500 quid a week goes a lot further than I thought in Thailand's premier destination :D.

You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't get the bar out of the girl.
This is a great buzzphrase which is perpetuated by farang who live their lives in the farang ghettos and culture of Thailand (even OTH, the most informed and BKK-integrated expat on ISG Thailand, moved back from a Thai neighbourhood to a tourist one as soon as he could afford to do so). In all my travels, I've learned to discard the 'capital city mentality' of every country as unrepresentative of every country's overall flavour.
In real life, the vast majority of Thai prostitutes can't wait to get out of the bar and get the bar out of their lives, given a viable alternative. This is a fact that is is borne out by every available set of statistics.

Fon Tok

08-08-08, 00:59

If you have a heart its hard not to be sucked in or suckered in. And at the end of the day its really not a lot of money to most of us unless you go idiotically overboard.
Think of it as a transfer of wealth from rich to poor, or from West to East.

One thing that always fascinates me though is what happens to the girls. (snip) So I wonder if their stories ended happily or tragically
A retired bargirl is not a pretty sight. That is why the few that get "lucky" along the way inspire the rest to seek out permanent walking ATM(s) via sponsorship or marriage. Poor people everywhere, especially poor women who sell their bodies, are always one step away from tragedy. For most, it seems to be the way of life here in Thailand.

I sometimes think these girls are the strongest people mentally in the world - to get up every day and know the best thing ahead of you is being screwed by some stranger and do it day after day without cracking up kind of amazes me.
A lot of them are crazy (like my friend Fa in the pictures). Behind the make-up and forced smiles, you can see it in their eyes. But they're also wily and have incredible survival skills, much like feral cats or coyotes. Nevertheless, they are human and they do cry. Some of them all the way to the bank!

The real question is for all of the "big hearted" mongers out there: Would it make sense to "sponsor" a prostitute or stripper in your home country?

Terry Terrier

08-08-08, 01:19

The real question is for all of the "big hearted" mongers out there: Would it make sense to support a prostitute or stripper in your home country?
In view of the fact that the vast majority of Thai women living in the West are ex-Thai prostitutes, I'm going to take a leap (and also speak for quite a few friends), and say "Yes". The success/failure rates of such marriages are generally similar to the local national averages. And the 'return to prostitution' rates are very small: Usually related to financial hardship following marriage breakdown. I shagged a quite fit early middle-aged Thai woman in Manchester UK last month who had lived locally for fifteen years and had certainly never worked the local P4P scene in the 8 or so years I've been using it. She was recently single and trying to raise the funds for a trip home to see family for herself and her kids.

Terry Terrier

08-08-08, 01:28

I think most of us have at some point if you have spent enough time there. If you have a heart its hard not to be sucked in or suckered in. And at the end of the day its really not a lot of money to most of us unless you go idiotically overboard. On the few occasions I have sent money after hearing a sad plea that would make a crocodile cry all I hope is that they had a good time with it and bought themselves something nice. I have no illusions about them saving it or getting them out of their current business activities.

One thing that always fascinates me though is what happens to the girls. I've been coming to Thailand for about 15 years now and in that time have seen wave after wave of new girls replace the older ones. And I rarely come across ones from years previously. So I wonder if their stories ended happily or tragically - did they go back home and set up a buisness, get married to a farang, commit suicide, find a job in a beauty parlor or just keep doing the same thing but somewhere else. I'd love to see a study on the migration of bar girls or see a series of films like Michael Apted directed where he follows the lives of some people and sees where they are every 7 years - except with bar girls. I sometimes think these girls are the strongest people mentally in the world - to get up every day and know the best thing ahead of you is being screwed by some stranger and do it day after day without cracking up kind of amazes me.
That's a great post. The answer to your question about their stories is imo that they ended up in all the scenarios you suggest, the suicide one being the smallest category. What a great idea for a reality TV show.

Terry Terrier

08-08-08, 02:34

Could anybody tell me if its free to take girls back to the Bel Aire Princess i think the name is Sukhumvit soi 5

Thanks
No. They have a joiner fee.

Old Thai Hand

08-08-08, 02:54

(even OTH, the most informed and BKK-integrated expat on ISG Thailand, moved back from a Thai neighbourhood to a tourist one as soon as he could afford to do so).

That's not true. With the exception of 2 years on Suk 22 - not a great experience, but an easy way to get re-established, when I first came back to Thailand after a 9-month guest lectureship abroad - I've lived in solidly Thai neighbourhoods both in Bangkok and Hua Hin. I doubt any tourists could find my current place. Even many BKK taxi drivers have trouble finding it, unless I tell them to use the Suk 16 access point.

While I live in a nice condo, it's in a solidly Thai neighbourhood next to the slums of Klong Toey. While I might denigrate Thais from time to time, I still prefer their company over many Farang, especially many Farang expats. Otherwise, what's the point of living here, if you're going to live in a foreign ghetto? The Japanese are by far the worst for this. They don't integrate at all.

It's true, I enjoy the occasional pint and a plate of bangers and mash at Robin Hood, or The Dubliner. I go to the bi-monthly Brit comedy shows at The Bullshead with all the other expats in town. But, I'm not one of those who's been here 20 years, never eats Thai food and can still only muster a spastic "sawasdee krup" as their total Thai language output. Unfortunately, the town is full of these sad-asses, down at the local on a Sunday afternoon, watching the footie with the missus (even if she's a Thai missus) on the big-screen TV and longing for a home that only exists in their imagination. I admit that I like these places as a retreat from too much "Thai-ness" because, with the exception of the the preponderance of Thai girls, and perhaps the Thai wait staff, you could just as easily be sitting in a pub in Lutton. But, I'm not expecially fond of hanging with this crowd and am happy to return the chaos of my Thai neighbourhood - of course, viewed safely from the bastion of my hi-rise condo :) - like the French in the castle in Monty Python and The Holy Grail..."I fart in your general direction!".

M P Lurker

08-08-08, 05:11

One thing that always fascinates me though is what happens to the girls. I've been coming to Thailand for about 15 years now and in that time have seen wave after wave of new girls replace the older ones. And I rarely come across ones from years previously. So I wonder if their stories ended happily or tragically - did they go back home and set up a buisness, get married to a farang, commit suicide, find a job in a beauty parlor or just keep doing the same thing but somewhere else....
Of course we lose track of most P4Ps.
But occassionally you meet a special P4P girl that is class above the rest, or you just never got bored with.
So I am still in contact with a girl met in Lollipop 15-16 years ago. She has quit P4P, lived in Sweden for a while, but now trying to run her own business.
Another I met in CPII Soapy 6 years ago and she has quit P4P for several years now and also lived OS for a while.

A couple of Thai girls I have known in Australia for many years may have been in P4P in Thailand a long time ago.
As they went to Australia with Farangs. But I don't care to interogate on these issues.

Definite non-P4P girls I am ignoring for this post.

Fon Tok

08-08-08, 05:17

Could anybody tell me if its free to take girls back to the Bel Aire Princess i think the name is Sukhumvit soi 5. Thanks
I stayed there last fall. If you don't want BG pillow-talk, the 24-hour in-house massage girls are very friendly at the "Princess!"

Washburn

08-08-08, 05:38

You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't get the bar out of the girl.Well, that's not reallywhat I meant, RA. I meant that all the forces that made her resort to the bar are still going to be operative. And it takes a while for a girl to become part of the bar scene, just like it takes a dog a while to become kennelized at the SPCA (and some dogs never do). IMO there are plenty of girls, even some who enjoy aspects of bar life, who don't have any of it's negative aspects embedded in their character.

Guys should have their eyes open, and be prudent, but they are in far more danger. By any order of magnitude you care to name. Of financial ruin from relationships with women back in Farangland (due to the predatory nature of Farang women and a complicitous legal system) than anything that can befall them in the Kingdom, bar girls included, unless they behave completely witlessly.

Retired Army

08-08-08, 07:07

I sometimes think these girls are the strongest people mentally in the world - to get up every day and know the best thing ahead of you is being screwed by some stranger and do it day after day without cracking up kind of amazes me.

That's why most of them abuse alcohol or drugs.

Retired Army

08-08-08, 07:12

In real life, the vast majority of Thai prostitutes can't wait to get out of the bar and get the bar out of their lives, given a viable alternative. This is a fact that is is borne out by every available set of statistics.

That's why the want to marry a Farang, but I don't care what you say. Once a girl has worked as a bar girl she is scared forever to one degree or another.

And, BTW, I would be interested in seeing the statistics to which you refer in your post. Can you please provide?

Fon Tok

08-08-08, 07:13

Of financial ruin from relationships with women back in Farangland (due to the predatory nature of Farang women and a complicitous legal system) than anything that can befall them in the Kingdom, bar girls included, unless they behave completely witlessly.
A few years ago, two and a half years of marriage cost me almost $40K(us) and a whole lot of pain!

With that in mind, the sincere appreciation I receive from giving my smiling Thai GF, gig, or the odd BG a few thousand baht every now and then is a true pleasure.

Retired Army

08-08-08, 07:16

In view of the fact that the vast majority of Thai women living in the West are ex-Thai prostitutes...

That's a commom misconception, but unfortunately it's a stereotype and wrong. I know a few Thai ex-prostitites living in the West, but the vast majority are decent, hardworking, non P4P women striving for a better life for them and their families.

Fslag338

08-08-08, 08:04

patterson, i have stayed there two years ago and never had a problem or needing to pay for bringing a girl in. and i would be very surprised if any hotel especially in this area wants to charge you for it. (breakfast is a different story of course).
and if they tried i would refuse and tell them everywhere else it is free.
good luck

Terry Terrier

08-08-08, 08:39

That's a commom misconception, but unfortunately it's a stereotype and wrong. I know a few Thai ex-prostitites living in the West, but the vast majority are decent, hardworking, non P4P women striving for a better life for them and their families.
It's a common truism, a stereotype and right. It's how the vast majority of Thai women meet their farang husbands. Sad, but true. The (wrong) stereotype perpetuated by idiots such as yourself is that all ex-bargirls want to continue behaving like bargirls when given a viable alternative. The vast majority (who make up the vast majority of khun Thai living in the west) are far more sensible and mature than your beloved gtg's, and know when to embrace a gilt-edged opportunity when they see one: As attested to by several million successful Thai/farang marriages, and an awful lot of successful ex-bargirl businesswomen, around the world.

Wake up and smell the roses, Army. The world is full of expat Thai women whos' husbands and ex-husbands didn't travel to Thailand on US Army business.

M P Lurker

08-08-08, 09:16

That's a commom misconception, but unfortunately it's a stereotype and wrong. I know a few Thai ex-prostitites living in the West, but the vast majority are decent, hardworking, non P4P women striving for a better life for them and their families.
Thats exaggerating the opposite way a bit too far.
I know a very decent hard-working Thai girl chef.
She doesn't have a very large large number of Thai friends in Australia because a lot of the other Thais she meets aren't good enough in character, even when not P4P. Too many selfish spoiled rich kids who don't know how to work, never feel Greng Jai, etc.

A lot of Thais are students or restaurant workers these days.
But of the ones brought in by Farangs and now married to Farangs in my country, its reasonable to assume that a fair percentage may have once been in P4P. Obviously I don't know statistics as usually this sort of thing is supposed to be secret, and I definitely don't want to know since some of these girls now have a chance to lead a normal life without too much "bargirl" talk going around.

But its up to the girl how she behaves.
Staying sober is a very important part of hiding the "bargirl" look.
I once went to a birthday party where I was incredibily embarassed by flamboyant behaviour of some Thai/Laos girls that sought of said to me "definte ex-bargirl". Fortunately I know better than to go these types of parties now.

NicFrenchy

08-08-08, 12:12

He pays for her apartment, university, and sends money every month, but the sap wants to fuck her while he's here so she hates him. That says it all about "sponsorship" IMHO.

Actually she hates him because he wants to fuck her several times a day, every day LOL

How can you stand being with that person?

Man, if you could just see at how pretty that girl is... :)

Daddy07

08-08-08, 12:29

...Man, if you could just see at how pretty that girl is... :)

Yep! Thats a good reason. :D

And it's another great lesson that these girls won't respect a man who throws big money at them. They might even come to hate him for wanting what he's paying for.

So I say enjoy her pretty face as you like, and then dump her when you are through. Let the other guy be the sap. He should know better.

Retired Army

08-08-08, 15:53

She doesn't have a very large large number of Thai friends in Australia because a lot of the other Thais she meets aren't good enough in character, even when not P4P. .

That's definatively true. My wife has the same problem when she is not in Thailand.

But its up to the girl how she behaves.
Staying sober is a very important part of hiding the "bargirl" look.
I once went to a birthday party where I was incredibily embarassed by flamboyant behaviour of some Thai/Laos girls that sought of said to me "definte ex-bargirl". Fortunately I know better than to go these types of parties now.

Been there, done that. One of the reasons we don't go to Thai parties outside of Thailand. Put a few drinks, especially if they are free, in these girls and it's just like being in Patpong or Beach Road all over again.

Retired Army

08-08-08, 15:54

Man, if you could just see at how pretty that girl is... :)

Why don't you post a picture?

Retired Army

08-08-08, 16:11

The (wrong) stereotype perpetuated by idiots such as yourself is that all ex-bargirls want to continue behaving like bargirls when given a viable alternative.

I used to respect you and your opinions, but now that you have resorted to name calling, you can go fuck yourself ass wipe.

1Ball

08-08-08, 16:38

I used to respect you and your opinions, but now that you have resorted to name calling, you can go fuck yourself.
CAT FIGHT.

LOVE IT :D

NicFrenchy

08-08-08, 17:07

Why don't you post a picture?

I must have given you the wrong impression all this time. Maybe you really think I am stupid?

Posting the picture of a lady who has an official sponsor (who can be a member here by the way) and risking to jeopardise her relationship (however bad it might be) just to brag to a bunch of Internet horndogs that I can pull a very pretty Thai non P4P girl?

I don't need to prove anything to anyone, I'm not one to play the "who's got the biggest dick" game

Retired Army

08-08-08, 17:41

CAT FIGHT.

LOVE IT :D

Grrr, Meow Grrrrrrrrr, Meow, lick my balls, cough up a hair ball, Meow, screw the dog, take a nap.

DRRonin

08-08-08, 22:16

A lot of them are crazy (like my friend Fa in the pictures). Behind the make-up and forced smiles, you can see it in their eyes. But they're also wily and have incredible survival skills, much like feral cats or coyotes. Nevertheless, they are human and they do cry. Some of them all the way to the bank!

The real question is for all of the "big hearted" mongers out there: Would it make sense to "sponsor" a prostitute or stripper in your home country?I don't doubt it and I admit to not being able to read Thai girls very well - but it still amazes me that at least on the surface and I think for many beyond that, that they can generally seem pretty happy, cheerful, funny, playful and sane. Maybe its their religion, maybe its their sense of fate, maybe its their culture, maybe its being a woman in a very patriarchal world or maybe they have just learned to separate what they do from who they are. The ones who get lost in drugs, alcohol and anger are the ones who can't I would guess.

As to sponsoring a woman at home - hah! One, I could never afford it, two, I have none of the same sense of empathy I have for girls from Thailand and third - though we often complain about how business like the girls in Thailand are getting its nothing compared to girls in the US where you better have your pants on when the time is up. I haven't gone with a girl here in a very long time but my past experiences were pretty awful. Never again.

I know two girls that I met way back in 1992 who are still in the game. One I have stayed in touch with fairly constantly because I consider her a friend and we have lunch and see movies together occasionally but no longer get intimate. Its been interesting seeing her life flash by - started out at 18 working in Pussy Galore in Patpong - tiny and incredibly cute - was a swimsuit girl meaning she never got on stage but just mingled with the clients - and over the years she has jumped around - worked the Japanese bars for years - retired - bought her apt. - came back for a while - then quit again and opened a restaurant - had a child - restaurant failed and she came back in the biz - now she is trying to put together another business that will allow her to get out for good. Though still cute but a little heavier, at 35 she knows her days are coming to a close as a bar girl and she worries about what comes next. But she is eternally optimistic and cheerful and tells me whats the point of life without fighting every day for something to call your own.

The other girl was one of my very very first - took her out of Pretty Woman I think it was on the second floor of Nana - way way back - she was right off the farm - no English, no idea about sex, was terrified of doing a bj, had to wrestle the sheets off her - but an absolutely bouncy sweet personality that got me to go with her 4-5 times over two trips. Never saw her for many years until 3 years ago I came across her in the Nana Hotel lobby - she immediately recognized me and remembered my name - and oddly I remembered hers - oddly because now she looks 50 though she must be mid-thirties at most and her life has no where to go - living on the generosity of drunks. She is always on the verge of being broke and in tears and I find it impossible not to give her a few thousand baht from time to time. I am not really sure why since I was only a customer and nothing more - but seeing her breaks my heart and makes me remember when both she and I were much younger.

Higgins T

08-08-08, 22:48

Girls or business, you may never forget, that it is a very different mentalitity in thailand. Having done some business in Thailand, I feel, they do not take it so accurate with the truth - f.e. concerning money -as we do it in europe. (Many of my business partners kept (small) amounts of the money, having speciuos excuses, but it was never worth having a big argument..., but it added up)

My conclusion, in general: A "little lie" is not the same matter in Thailand as it is in the western world.

I met a very, very nice working girl in bangkok, spend unforgettable moments with her but couldn't stay with her. It hurt. Comparing her to a western girl, I'm sorry to say, I did not trust her. (+ I would never ever think of sponsoring a western working girl). I am not saying, that all thaigirls are like that. My lession: go for the whole thing - stay with her, take her with you or leave the whole thing being a nice memory. But I wasn't courageous enough. Don't sponsor, it doesn't work, makes you worry to much. But maybe I am just talking smart, because everything changes, when you fall in love.

Traveler1234

08-09-08, 00:41

In view of the fact that the vast majority of Thai women living in the West are ex-Thai prostitutes, I'm going to take a leap (and also speak for quite a few friends), and say "Yes".

With friends like you, who needs enemies. Where did this statement of fact come from?

I always knew you were an envious fart but thought you had some intelligence, guess I was wrong again!

Betong

08-09-08, 03:47

I wonder if any of the older hands here can relate a story of a girl that has worked in the nightscene longer?I figure the all-time record has to be that famous old dragon who used to work the Thermae every night. (I've given up on the place so for all I know she's still there, though it seems unlikely.) Apparently she'd been around since the days of the long-gone bars down by the Oriental Hotel in the early '50s. The amazing thing was that she still got the occasional customer.

Retired Army

08-09-08, 06:54

I must have given you the wrong impression all this time. Maybe you really think I am stupid?

Posting the picture of a lady who has an official sponsor (who can be a member here by the way) and risking to jeopardise her relationship (however bad it might be) just to brag to a bunch of Internet horndogs that I can pull a very pretty Thai non P4P girl?

I don't need to prove anything to anyone, I'm not one to play the "who's got the biggest dick" game

No, I don't think you're stupid at all. Far from it. I just thought she was your girlfriend and you were bragging and wanted to show off a little. Guess I should have read all the threads and not just the last one.

NicFrenchy

08-09-08, 07:18

I just thought she was your girlfriend and you were bragging and wanted to show off a little

Well, she's not my girlfriend but my gig, I see her casually despite the fact that she has a sponsor (who lives overseas). I have thought about leaving her out of respect for the guy but she would just replace me with another guy (she also has a Thai Boyfriend/gig/brother) and, she's really pretty so I try to have fun with her while I can.

Takamine1

08-09-08, 08:53

I have been here for five days and I suppose I should share some of my experiences with all of you.
First....BKK is full of girls. You can get about anything you want here but.....
Second...some places may not cater for European clientele. Thermae and some MP's seem to be more Japanese oriented. Thermae has many beauties, I admit, but many are just for ST and quote ridiculous prices (2000B ST, 3000 LT). I just laughed them off. You can get a gorgeous girl from Babydoll's at 1500B LT plus 600B barfine.
Third...when you think about it, many bargirls in Soi 7/1 quote 2000B plus 500B LT. I just smile and half the price. There are some cuties there. Took one from the bar opposite my hotel. She was lovely.
Fourth....Beergarden (Soi 7) and Gulliver's (Soi 5) have a mix. Beergarden is more in your face (why waste time buying her a drink). At Gulliver's there is an air of sophistication which is only skin deep...they may not all smile at you. The quality at these two places varies considerably from one day to the next.

Fifth....Spice disco. I went there last night and thoroughly enjoyed myself. There are lots of freelancers and if you are there some time after 1:00am you may meet the real deal (I did). Newbies...don't put on a cowboy attitude at Spice's. Some of the girls are already taken, some others are with there Thai BF's. Better to look before you leap,
Take care all of you,
Taka

Old Thai Hand

08-09-08, 08:56

That's a commom misconception, but unfortunately it's a stereotype and wrong. I know a few Thai ex-prostitites living in the West, but the vast majority are decent, hardworking, non P4P women striving for a better life for them and their families.

Most Thais in the US and Canada are actually quite well-to-do. This has as much to do with the difficulty of any Thai, except one's with money to get a visa, let alone a permanent residency, as anything else. Marriage to a Farang is no guarantee the girl will ever get into either country.

Retired Army

08-09-08, 09:04

Marriage to a Farang is no guarantee the girl will ever get into either country.

That's absolutely correct! It helps, but it's no guarantee. Money also helps, but like marriage, it doesn't guarantee a visa.

Retired Army

08-09-08, 09:06

Well, she's not my girlfriend but my gig, I see her casually despite the fact that she has a sponsor (who lives overseas). I have thought about leaving her out of respect for the guy but she would just replace me with another guy (she also has a Thai Boyfriend/gig/brother) and, she's really pretty so I try to have fun with her while I can.

Well, enjoy her while you can...

Old Thai Hand

08-09-08, 09:18

That's absolutely correct! It helps, but it's no guarantee. Money also helps, but like marriage, it doesn't guarantee a visa.

I do tend to agree with Terry though that the vast majority of Thai women one meets in Europe seem to be ex-P4P. I haven't met any Isaan farmgirls (except my ex-gf, who I took to Canada 7 years ago) in North America. But, almost every Thai I met in Europe, (with the exception of the students I was with) when I was there last month, seemed to be ex-P4P.

Old Thai Hand

08-09-08, 09:31

Washburn

08-09-08, 09:39

OK - this trip I've barfined girls from Soi Cowboy, Nana, and Soi 33, taken freelancers from Thermae's, Gullivers, Biergarten, Grace Hotel, and on the stroll on Sukhumvit, and at NEP carpark, and visited Nataree, Aviva, Tulip, Eden, Darling, Annie's, and Orchid massage parlors (promise to write some reports) - so what have I missed?

Which of your Bangkok favorite(s) have I overlooked? Let me know asap - I have only two more days!

Daddy07

08-09-08, 10:04

Having just returned from 24 hours in Pattaya...(OTH in Pattaya??????? WTF??? did hell freeze over? did pigs fly?)...

...a thought occured to me (apart from "OMG, POOR GIRL!!") after I saw some of the types of Farang who these girls end up with, these types of relationships might not last, as well because a lot of these guys appear to be products of some cloning experiment gone horribly wrong, and are often ant-social freaks subject to rather bizarre behaviour. It's no wonder than more often than not, one hears in the bars, the girls exclaim, "Farang Ba!".

My goodness, OTH, where in the hell to you go, and where do you stay on your infrequent trips to Pattaya? -- soi 6/1? -- the far side of Sukhumvit? -- the 3rd Road ghetto?

Admittedly, I've seen a few of the knuckle dragger types you describe, in their worn out flip-flops, filthy sleeveless t-shirts, and otherwise grotesque appearences, but I've also seen these guys on the lower Suk in Bangkok.

I rarely see them on Walking Street, and almost never in the go-go bars.

BTW -- did you get laid while you were here?

Betong

08-09-08, 10:11

so what have I missed?
Well, Star of Light comes to mind. Or take a walk on the wild side at Barbar just down the soi. BDSM with a happy ending (if you can call getting a wank while blindfolded, whipped, and slapped 'happy').

Fon Tok

08-09-08, 10:22

OK - this trip I've barfined girls from Soi Cowboy, Nana, and Soi 33, taken freelancers from Thermae's, Gullivers, Biergarten, Grace Hotel, and on the stroll on Sukhumvit, and at NEP carpark, and visited Nataree, Aviva, Tulip, Eden, Darling, Annie's, and Orchid massage parlors (promise to write some reports) - so what have I missed? Which of your Bangkok favorite(s) have I overlooked? Let me know asap - I have only two more days!
You might try a soapie at JC Infinity. That way you could say you've visited Patpong, too. Oh yeah, and stop at SOL on the way out in case you need some additional relief.

Betong

08-09-08, 10:37

That way you could say you've visited Patpong, too.
Interesting how Patpong seems to have fallen off the to-do list of many visiting mongers. Patpong 1 understandably so, but Patpong 2 still has some worthwhile places, plus a bit of the old ambience.

Retired Army

08-09-08, 11:56

M P Lurker

08-09-08, 12:03

Akami on Suk Soi 33?
A Japanese Restaurant with Suchi/Sashimi I guess? Tell us more.

Old Thai Hand

08-09-08, 13:00

My goodness, OTH, where in the hell to you go, and where do you stay on your infrequent trips to Pattaya? -- soi 6/1? -- the far side of Sukhumvit? -- the 3rd Road ghetto?

Admittedly, I've seen a few of the knuckle dragger types you describe, in their worn out flip-flops, filthy sleeveless t-shirts, and otherwise grotesque appearences, but I've also seen these guys on the lower Suk in Bangkok.

I rarely see them on Walking Street, and almost never in the go-go bars.

BTW -- did you get laid while you were here?

Ya, but the knuckle-draggers on lower suk in Bkk are tourists. They don't live here. I saw these freaks around the 3rd Road ghetto and around other Pattaya sexpat areas. They clearly weren't visiting, but seem to be infesting Pattaya's condo slums, like cockroaches.

No, I didn't get laid and I was here alone, in a hotel near Walking Street. This is part of the story, I might post, likely in the 'Living in Thailand' thread. It actually doesn't really belong in either this thread or the Pattaya thread.

Old Thai Hand

08-09-08, 13:04

Washburn

08-09-08, 13:13

Interesting how Patpong seems to have fallen off the to-do list of many visiting mongers. Patpong 1 understandably so, but Patpong 2 still has some worthwhile places, plus a bit of the old ambience.

I've only been to Patpong once, in the daytime, to SOL. But if you're going to feel sorry for a place shed a tear for Washington Square. At least someone is still going to Patpong (regular tourists?).

And I thought maybe Pegasus club, RA, but I've spent so much money this trip, and I'm so shagged out, that I thought it might be a bit of a waste.

So maybe I'll try Patpong tonight.

Thanks for your suggestions. That's what makes this sport so great. You never stop learning...

Retired Army

08-09-08, 14:02

A Japanese Restaurant with Suchi/Sashimi I guess? Tell us more.

Come on, you know Akame Massage on Soi 33. The place where they specialize in sticking things up the customer's ass. And, I guess you could get some raw fish, or something that smells like raw fish, at Akame if you call in advance.

M P Lurker

08-09-08, 14:58

Come on, you know Akame Massage on Soi 33. The place where they specialize in sticking things up the customer's ass. And, I guess you could get some raw fish, or something that smells like raw fish, at Akame if you call in advance.
You mean Akane then. ;) Have you been there? I haven't tried it. Possibly might stay away if they want to mess with my arse.

NicFrenchy

08-09-08, 15:31

You mean Akane then. ;) Have you been there? I haven't tried it. Possibly might stay away if they want to mess with my arse.

You're right, Akane is not for you Mick, you might be disappointed there.

Retired Army

08-09-08, 16:28

You mean Akane then. ;) Have you been there? I haven't tried it. Possibly might stay away if they want to mess with my arse.

...smells like fertilizer.

Yeah, that's the place. I've always called it Akame, but it could be Akane. I will have to go and check the name.

I've also been several times and have had pretty good experiences. But, I never could get past the idea of the girl licking my a-hole and then trying to kiss me.

I was there one time and could hear the guy in the next cubicle moaning and saying something in Japanese. All of a sudden the girls he had with him screamed and ran out. Apparently they were massaging his prostrate and he shat.

Finrod

08-09-08, 17:29

I do tend to agree with Terry though that the vast majority of Thai women one meets in Europe seem to be ex-P4P. I haven't met any Isaan farmgirls (except my ex-gf, who I took to Canada 7 years ago) in North America. But, almost every Thai I met in Europe, (with the exception of the students I was with) when I was there last month, seemed to be ex-P4P.
I don't know about vast majority, but at least half is definitely plausible. If you happen to be in or around London at Songkran time, go check out the Thai temple in Wimbledon. That place fills up pretty good with their Songkran festival; you never saw so many Thai women outside of Thailand. And no, you're not going to get wet there.

Globotto

08-09-08, 19:30

PM me for any details if your interested in joining next Saturday Night Aug 16 at Bar Bar Patpong 2. The club is halfing its entry fee to 450thb (includes 1 drink) for men (free for woman). THe party is on the 2nd floor as to what happens on the 3rd floor is outside this party. The intent of this event is more like entertainment rather than sex trade. Certainly any brave individuals who will allow themselves to be stapped into the rack in front of all the people may derive an alternate form of pleasure to balance your libido.
We are trying to entice guys to bring thier Gf's in Fetish outfit and stun us.
If we get enough of these females we'll have them do a skit on the stage cage & males will pass a vote ticket to the female of thier choice for a 1000thb prize. 2nd floor no nudity no sex toy. 3rd floor anything goes.
link www.barbar-bangkok.com

Daddy San

08-09-08, 19:59

Yeah, that's the place. I've always called it Akame, but it could be Akane. I will have to go and check the name.
I was there one time and could hear the guy in the next cubicle moaning and saying something in Japanese. All of a sudden the girls he had with him screamed and ran out. Apparently they were massaging his prostrate and he shat.
I would like to propose the above as the "Funniest Story of the Year".

I laughed so hard, literarly ROFL, that my wife came running and and I had to explain, without telling her what I had been reading and and above all, that I know the customs at Akane very well.

Giotto

08-09-08, 20:35

Giotto

08-09-08, 21:31

Giotto

08-09-08, 22:02

Sixty Cent

08-10-08, 00:53

Old Thai Hand

08-10-08, 03:30

Old Thai Hand,

OTH in Pattaya??????? WTF??? Did hell freeze over? Did pigs fly?

Giotto

There did seem to be a few air-born pigs around, when I was there...or, then again maybe they were simply the drunk, pink-skinned Brits tossing each other around.

I will say that my impressions were similar to those you had on your recent return to Patts.

Easy2007

08-10-08, 05:12

Things are in fact looking up now, and I am hoping oil will soon be moving back upwards again into the winter months to 200$ or more a barrel.

I know its the low season, but I saw a marked change in Bangkok on my last exploring of things cultural.

1. Less farangs - but more importantly less "package tour cheap ticket travel Far East types".

This is the great thing about rising air fares and rising "fuel surcharges" - less and less tossers traveling.

2. Girls getting better - I noticed a marked increase in new faces around places, quite cute some of them. Having sampled a few the new faces are from out of town in the big city freelancing for some extra cash as prices rise and more people come under the pressure of "no spare money".

If this trend increases into tourist season, and we can see 200$ or more a barrel for oil, then its going to be great fun for mongers with cash to spend :) !!!!

Globotto

08-10-08, 07:05

Just want to mention:

Globotto is Globotto (welcome back, long time no hear).

Giotto is Giotto.

Giotto

Thanks and Ricardo is Ricardo
Long time no hear and things have changed alot in such time as have I.
Also greetings to OTH

Globotto

08-10-08, 07:22

Hey there,

I need an advice, next week I am going to bangkok, bringing for the first time my (chinese) girlfriend. She is ready to try a lesbian + threesome experience she says, as she knows it is my dream (I did not tell her I already had with prostitutes)

I will stay in Ratchadapisek, is there any place where I can have a girl for the night, in my hotel, accepting to have 2 customers (me + my grilfriend)

The goal there is not for me to change once a while, no, I want the 2 girls to make me some lesbian show, cum sharing etc.

Has any one experienced such? Where can I find girls ready to accept?

I must add my girlfriend is a beautiful tiny girl in the late 20's.

next time, if the experience is great, I'll ask for 1 guy (2m + 1 girl)

Hello Sixty nine cent
i answer these in reverse. I have done it here when a girl i had been seeing brought her friend over for a nights firm bed and it just happened spontaneously. No cum sharing but i did stack them.
If you look up a pro its likely she wont swap fluids i.e. cum sharing OMG sounds great. You could take your chances and go out to regular clubs and try to pick up a regular girl. Strangly thus far i havent noticed chinese females liking thai females much or visa versa but thats just a generization. You can find girls willing to accept just about anywhere.
Most likely find a pro at any Go-Go if you put it out thru the ranks what ur looking for. I dont think you would have any problem at any Hotel will allow your GF and guest to stay. PM me if you want to hook up if i have time i could hang around and help you guys meet someone. Sounds like fun.

Easy2007

08-10-08, 09:43

Hotels do not care, thats not a problem.

Problem is finding a girl that will satisfy your needs and desires.

The lesbian side is easy, thats not a problem, cum sharing should not be a problem, the problem you will have is just changing condoms all the time.

Thai girls are pretty set in their ways and will not share a dick unless the condom is changed, for obvious reasons.

This is where places like Eden are good, in that the girls are experts in changing the condoms and do it in such a way that it does not get in the way of the action.

I would suggest taking your girlfriend to Eden, and letting the girls lesbianize her. You can also join in the fun.

Its perfectly ok, and there is no extra charge. Couples are same price as a single man. And its very common for couples to go to Eden.

Hey there,

I need an advice, next week I am going to bangkok, bringing for the first time my (chinese) girlfriend. She is ready to try a lesbian + threesome experience she says, as she knows it is my dream (I did not tell her I already had with prostitutes)

I will stay in Ratchadapisek, is there any place where I can have a girl for the night, in my hotel, accepting to have 2 customers (me + my grilfriend)

The goal there is not for me to change once a while, no, I want the 2 girls to make me some lesbian show, cum sharing etc.

Has any one experienced such? Where can I find girls ready to accept?

I must add my girlfriend is a beautiful tiny girl in the late 20's.

next time, if the experience is great, I'll ask for 1 guy (2m + 1 girl)

NicFrenchy

08-10-08, 14:44

The goal there is not for me to change once a while, no, I want the 2 girls to make me some lesbian show, cum sharing etc.

Call the Eden Club and talk to bruce. I am pretty sure ALL of their girls would be ok with your request. You can order them to come to your hotel directly.

10pm to 6 am takeout fee is 3,000thb all inc... and trust me, she can fuck both of you all night if you feel like it ;)

Passepartout

08-10-08, 18:12

Dear all,

I am planning a trip to Thailand with some friends.

i Know the usual business here, but I am looking for 2 special things:

1. Where can I find russian babes in Bangkok...
2. Where can i find top models or top end thai girls...

Thanks for your help!

Globotto

08-10-08, 19:37

Terry Terrier

08-10-08, 22:01

Most Thais in the US and Canada are actually quite well-to-do. This has as much to do with the difficulty of any Thai, except one's with money to get a visa, let alone a permanent residency, as anything else. Marriage to a Farang is no guarantee the girl will ever get into either country.

Most Thai (women) in the UK are also lower-middle-class-and-up within the British social structures. Quite a lot are successful businesswomen who started out doing one, sometimes two, and occasionally three basic-paying jobs in order to get onto the 'first rung of the ladder'. And the vast majority of them are ex-bargirls.

Terry Terrier

08-10-08, 22:12

I used to respect you and your opinions, but now that you have resorted to name calling, you can go fuck yourself ass wipe.

Calm down, man, it's only a bit of name-calling. And, in view of the fact that 1Ball has instructed us to continue, I was only stating the obvious :D.

Piper1

08-10-08, 22:23

... Where can I find russian babes in Bangkok...
Grace Disco, in Grace Hotel Soi 3, and outside Subway Soi 7. Apparently their numbers are growing in BKK.

Terry Terrier

08-10-08, 22:26

T1234,

I have been on your rather extensive ignore list for the last couple of years. During that time I've lost count of the number of times that you've responded to my posts. Even your forum friends laugh at you behind your back about it :D. Why aren't they loyal to you?

NicFrenchy

08-11-08, 01:00

Sixty Cent are you taking applicants? maybe we can have a ISG lottery.

Globotto,

Maybe the idea appeals to you but please try not to drag us all in your Lottery fantasy. Some of us are picky about who we spend the night with LOL

Betong

08-11-08, 06:25

where?
i like a couple of the semi-outdoor places down the soi, more for hanging out and enjoying the scene than for picking up women. patpong cafe and crystal palace often have some real babes. executive club too, if it's still there. electric blue was surprisingly good a year or so ago though i wasn't too impressed last time i peeked in. and le bouchon is a great little restaurant. sit at the counter and perve on the sexy serving staff.

Shagga 19

08-11-08, 16:40

Was in LOS last week. Decided I fancied a soapie. Went to Darlings but doesn't open til 3 pm. Damn. Plan B was SOL for a first time visit but hot so wandered into SOI7 Biergarten about 1. 30 pm. Sipping my beer when I have nice3 young lady who's smile intrigues me but she does not sya anything. Soon joined by her friend who sits between us andis more agressive in the touching stakes. Indicate that I prefer her friend (shy silent type) but soon offered both together. Beer is drunk and I enjoy their banter (besides both good looking). So forget soapie and decide to take both (at 1500 baht a piece) to short time hotel. They were good fun and wore me out. Hungry so agrred to buy them a late lunch across the roabd from SOI 7 on return. All in all a very GFE experience.

By now with low batteries adjourn to the SOI 8 bar to watch olympics. Can reccommend this bar run by a friend of my mine to chill out with no girl hassles and they have a free BBQ on a Friday night. After several beers decide that I need to visit Soi Cowboy as have never been before. No intention of taking girl as now well oiled.

Drop into long gun coyote and then Rawhide. Beer in each. Shows nothing to write home about. In Rawhide some how get attached to 3 of the girls. Must be a quiet night. More beer buy the girls a few drinks and little johnie starts paying attention despite the amoiunt of beer. (Thank god for vitamin C as I am no youngster). Mind is now controlled by the loins but which to take. Decison is effectively made by girls having to dance. I am finally left with the 3 rd girl whose has really taken a shine to me. Curly hair and a big mouth that constantly kisses mine. So as other two are busy the deal is done Bht 550 bar fine and BHt 2000 lt. Head back to Novotel Lotus which is totally girl friendly.

My date proves to be very enthusiastic in bed.especially in the morningwhen have two more times last at her instigation. Shame I have to fly out to KL. Pay her BHT 3000 as well satisfied. Can't rememebre when I had such a nice time from 3 girls on BKKand all GFE.

Hope KL proves as GF.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Passepartout

08-11-08, 18:17

Grace Disco, in Grace Hotel Soi 3, and outside Subway Soi 7. Apparently their numbers are growing in BKK.

Good to hear that!

Thanks

Machoo

08-12-08, 11:42

Hey there.

I will go for the first time in Bangkok next week end and I'd really like to have fun with some gorgeous Thai Lady. Any advice so as to where to go for Models?

Cheers,

Machoo

Daisy2

08-12-08, 16:02

Although I don't have any statistics on 'where girls are now' I have kept track-a little-of girls who tend to hang around for a long time.There is a girl in NEP right now who worked in Patpong in 1996.12 years is a long time although she has taken a year off a couple of times.I wonder if any of the older hands here can relate a story of a girl that has worked in the nightscene longer? Sometimes I feel if I have been coming to LOS for 100 years,I swear. Incidentally,the very first girl I ever BF'd was from the old Madison's bar (now G-Spot) in 1995.Her fate? She was shot by a German man whose marriage proposal she had spurned.She survived but,needless to say,her hooking days were over.There's a black girl who danced in King's Group in 1991 who is still found almost nightly in Patpong (outside Superstars) looking for customers. The mamasan in Superstars (K. Appen) worked in Safari from 1991- 1999, then Thigh Bar, but always as a hostess (but still willing to BF).

There's a katoey who was in King's Corner in 1991 who still attends the bar several nights a week (but thankfully never mounts the stage)

Giotto

08-12-08, 19:21

Hey there.

I will go for the first time in Bangkok next week end and I'd really like to have fun with some gorgeous Thai Lady. Any advice so as to where to go for Models?
...
Machoo,

A good start would be - to read the forum. And then you could add some information to the forum, writing a report (not only questions).

And if you look for a model - ask Auntie_Guido :). He knows...

Giotto

Sixty Cent

08-12-08, 23:20

call the eden club and talk to bruce. i am pretty sure all of their girls would be ok with your request. you can order them to come to your hotel directly.

10pm to 6 am takeout fee is 3,000thb all inc... and trust me, she can fuck both of you all night if you feel like it ;)nicfrenchy, globotto, easy2007, others.

thanks for the feedback, i guess i'll go with the eden. i have already been there personally, great experience (even though i never found any reaaal good looking girl).

i'll avoid the [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) stuff, i'm not really into that. my main objective is to see my gf have a lesbian experience. then, if she still allows, i'll join. cherry on the cake would be cum sharing. i'll keep you all posted

next time i may ask one guy to join but my spec is quite simple:

- not too good looking (less than me.)

- sex not too big

- someone who comes quite fast

- better be nore than 45 yo

well, i just want to protect myself and avoid my gf to change her focus after this experience.

Masacuata

08-13-08, 07:13

Hi fellow mongers,

I would like some advice from experienced mongers in this region regarding my possible next mongering destination.

I am considering either Thailand / Colombia - Venezuela / Central America (Cuba, Dominican Republic, etc.) but I am still not sure which destination
would be a better option taking on count price-quality of girls and mongering infrastructure.

My previous mongering destinations were mainly Europe / Argentina / Brazil / Mexico

Latin girls are more attractive to me than dark skinned asians which I guess it is a relatively high proportion in Thailand, but I may be wrong, but maybe mongering options are not so well developed in Colombia/Costa Rica as in Thailand.

According to what you have seen, what would it make more sense to visit? I am planning 2-4 weeks of non stop sex and some sightseeing.

Thanx,

Masacuata

Decent

08-13-08, 08:11

Greetings everyone,

Decent posted two lengthy reports regarding his trip to Buenos Aires.

Why he posted it in the Thailand thread instead of my separate forum for Argentina is a mystery to me.

I can only assume that he wanted his friends in Thailand to read of his exploits in Buenos Aires.

Anyway, I have re-posted his reports in argentinaprivate.com, where you are all invited to read them.

http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?p=387597#post387596

http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?p=387597#post387597

Thanks,

Jackson

Duniawala

08-13-08, 18:27

Fast Eddie 48

08-13-08, 23:44

Based on your statements I suggest somewhere else other than Thailand. You wouldn't be happy here. Try Costa Rica where you can go to the Beatles Bar. Hundreds of girls and very few customers.Duniawala

I think the Blue marlin is a better place in San jose CR but girl there is not as hot as the one in Bangkok ,I will in town next month for a week hope the USD will be stronger by then.

Fast eddie 48

Bellyboyau

08-15-08, 08:00

Hi All,

I've been reading the forums since my last visit to Thailand. While I got no action then, I was determined to experience a little more than Thai hands this time during my massages. I was travelling with other half, so I only had a few hours during the day. I read a few reviews on massages places that offered "extra", and decided on Aviva. Nice and close to Nana BTS, and easy to find.

Walked in, ordered a 90 minute oil massage. Was just assigned a girl, Jenny. Very cute, nice large breasts, as it turned out, nice trimmed and tight pussy. Anyway, walked upstairs, had the shower, lay down naked, she was clothed in t-shirt and short shorts. The usual massage, fingers brushing my balls, concentrating on my ass, as well as back and legs. After about half an hour, with a little talking, little giggling, I was asked if I wanted extra massage. I asked how much, she said 1500 baht. I asked if that was on top of the 600 baht for the massage, and she said "yes, 600 for (pointed to downstairs) and 1500 for me". I said yes, without really knowing what I was buying!

Anyway, she got naked, showered while I watched. She seemed shy, but it could have been an act for my benefit. Anyway, more leg massaging, no rushing, but eventually got to my cock. Hand massaging, then rubbing her boobs over it, then moving up to me, rubbing her whole body over mine. I was kissing her neck, grabbing her ass. Very sensual. I guess I was after the more GFE. Then grabbed a condom from her kit, rolled it on, and proceeded with a CBJ, very good. I was thinking that this was what I was paying for, when she slid back up me, rubbing me as before, and then slid beside me and onto her back.

I lay beside her, and spent some time licking her breasts, nipples, neck, sliding my finger in between her lips. I was impressed with how wet she already was, and relatively tight. After a while, I moved in between her legs, and slid in. Then it was maybe 30 minutes of various positions, mainly missionary, on her side, little doggie, legs on shoulders. She didn't hurry me along, but commented that I lasted a long time. Flattery I'm sure. But I decided I needed the release and let go. I should mention that I spent a bit of time before the act massaging her clit, making her moan. I wasn't sure if she came or not, but she seemed to enjoy it. She wasn't particularly loud or expressive, but moaned nicely, smiled shyly even when I was fucking her, and was very sensual.

We slid the condom off, and then she told me that I still had 25 mins left, what would I like. So we just sat and chatted while she massaged my hands, arms, head. Her English was actually rather poor, but we managed to chat a bit. I think she was 25, or 27. She also had a scar in the middle of her chest, above her breasts, less than an inch long. It bothered me not at all.

I paid her 2000 baht, which is probably well over the odds, but I enjoyed it, and I didn't have the right change! She smiled and waved as I left.

Overall, for a person new to the game, I think Aviva was a good introduction.

Cheers

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

M P Lurker

08-16-08, 06:30

.......
Walked in, ordered a 90 minute oil massage. Was just assigned a girl, Jenny. Very cute, nice large breasts, as it turned out, nice trimmed and tight pussy. Anyway, walked upstairs, had the shower, lay down naked, she was clothed in t-shirt and short shorts. The usual massage, fingers brushing my balls, concentrating on my ass, as well as back and legs. After about half an hour, with a little talking, little giggling, I was asked if I wanted extra massage. I asked how much, she said 1500 baht. I asked if that was on top of the 600 baht for the massage, and she said "yes, 600 for (pointed to downstairs) and 1500 for me". I said yes, without really knowing what I was buying! ...

Technically you are in the wrong Thread. There is a Bangkok Massage Parlours thread.

Also if you were a reader of that thread, you would know exactly what the 1500 Baht would cover.

PinkPearl

08-16-08, 07:36

I would like some advice from experienced mongers in this region regarding my possible next mongering destination.

I am considering either Thailand / Colombia - Venezuela / Central America (Cuba, Dominican Republic, etc.) but I am still not sure which destination
would be a better option taking on count price-quality of girls and mongering infrastructure.

My previous mongering destinations were mainly Europe / Argentina / Brazil / Mexico

Latin girls are more attractive to me than dark skinned asians which I guess it is a relatively high proportion in Thailand, but I may be wrong, but maybe mongering options are not so well developed in Colombia/Costa Rica as in Thailand.

According to what you have seen, what would it make more sense to visit? I am planning 2-4 weeks of non stop sex and some sightseeing.I'd forget about Costa Rica/Central America if you want to spend less dough in Thailand, have 1000's of hot young ladies to choose from, and not get robbed of everything you own.

In Bangkok's P4P scene you will get darker skinned women than you are used to and prefer, so maybe this is not the place for you if skin colour is such a big deal. Although there are some Russian and other more whitish females here if you want to check LOS out & find you simply cannot stand gorgeous tanned TGs. That is, they look pretty much the same as a white person, except like one who has been baking in the sun. TGs cum in many shades of sunbathing.

If after a few days you find Thailand just makes you feel like barfing 24/7, Japan is only a couple bunny hops away. There the whiter than white are popping out like rabbits, although you will pay a premium. The Land Of Smiles will be the most economical of all listed.

From my reading the two most popular destinations in the world are Thailand and Brazil. Having experienced the latter already, I think you may be missing something if you don't try both while the wood pecker still pecks and before it's too late.

Good luck in where ever you decide.

Refs:

TheRx dot cum {Costa Rica forum}

PERB {Pacific Escort Review Board}

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Daddy07

08-16-08, 09:09

...I read a few reviews on massages places that offered "extra", and decided on Aviva...

That's a good report, and I'm glad you had a great time with your first oily in Thailand.

And now you know how expensive the average cost of sex is in Bangkok. :)

Next trip, come to Pattaya!

Regards,
Daddy

Opebo

08-16-08, 11:20

And now you know how expensive the average cost of sex is in Bangkok. :)

Next trip, come to Pattaya!

And the poor guy only got a CBJ for that 2,100 baht!

Regarding the debate about whether Masacuata should go to Thailand/Southeast Asia or Latin America, it should be kept in mind that there are definitely whiter girls available in the more 'Thai-oriented' side of the business, such as higher end massage parlours. Also some minority of these girls will have the more voluptuous T and A you get in Latin America. True, service is bad and prices are high in Thai oriented venues, but I believe the overall cost of girls, hotels, and travel in general is much higher in Latin America.

Lastly we get to the issue of passion - it is probably true that in general Latinas are a lot more passionate than Thais, but on the other hand here BBBJ is the norm, and even BBFS is not uncommon. I read that most everything is plastic in Latin America.

Bellyboyau

08-16-08, 12:08

And the poor guy only got a CBJ for that 2,100 baht!I assume you're referring to my report. Maybe I'm missing some in-joke here, but firstly I got full service for that price, and secondly, I made it clear that for the first time, price wasn't the biggest driver!

And Mick Licker, thanks for the pointer. I agree that I should have spent some more time in the Massage Parlours forum, and I would have had a better idea what to pay. Ah well, live and learn. I still think $65 AUD well spent for the first time.

Just to get it straight, the "Bangkok Reports" thread is for what exactly if it isn't reports of sexual encounters in massage parlours. Reports of sexual encounters with bar girls? Or anything other than Massage Parlours. Serious query.

Cheers

El Greco

08-16-08, 18:20

Lastly we get to the issue of passion - it is probably true that in general Latinas are a lot more passionate than Thais, but on the other hand here BBBJ is the norm, and even BBFS is not uncommon. I read that most everything is plastic in Latin America.

Not at all for BBBJ and anal. BBFS very difficult to get.
I wouldn't do it anyway.

Member #4537

08-16-08, 18:36

BBFS very difficult to get.

Quite easy to get actually. Just add a 1000 baht note.

But then again, I'm only 19 so.... looks do make them think otherwise.

If you want guaranteed bareback + shooting your load inside you may want to try the Indonesia and Phillipina girls. A condom is an insult to them.

Satrai2000

08-16-08, 19:28

...In Bangkok's P4P scene you will get darker skinned women than you are used to and prefer, so maybe this is not the place for you if skin colour is such a big deal... No offense bro but I just wonder how many Thai p4p-ladies you have seen. Are the ladies in the soapies of a darker complexion than Latina's? Don't think so. Many ladies in the famous MP's are porcelain-white.

I think Thai people are on average very comparable to Latino's with regard to skin-colour.

Please confirm with the super-senior members of this forum.

Neidermeyer

08-16-08, 19:49

3. Sabai Sabai isn't bad for a good massage Soi 11 (generally) and extras on offer (hJ mainly)

4 - If your time is limited I'd stick to Cowboy. More nudity, better in general IMHO. Long Gun is a good start, then move on to the more hands on bars.Thanks Skeeter. Which gogos in Soi Cowboy would you consider more "hands on?"

Opebo

08-16-08, 20:03

Not at all for BBBJ and anal. BBFS very difficult to get.
I wouldn't do it anyway.

Just to clarify - bareback anal is easy to get in Latin America? Wow, I did not know that. Excuse me while I pack my bags!

PinkPearl

08-17-08, 02:41

No offense bro but I just wonder how many Thai p4p-ladies you have seen. Are the ladies in the soapies of a darker complexion than Latina's? Don't think so. Many ladies in the famous MP's are porcelain-white.

I think Thai people are on average very comparable to Latino's with regard to skin-colour.

Please confirm with the super-senior members of this forum.

My TG P4P experience is limited to an area from NEP to SC, and mostly around the former. Besides a handful of MPs, Biergarten & Thermae, it is also exclusively with SWs.

In 8 months of living in Bangkok I have walked around this area quite a bit and in doing so seen perhaps hundreds of WGs. Obviously I don't frequent bars much, but when they empty out around 2 a. m. across the street from my hotel I have had the opportunity to scan many ladies on numerous occasions. Additionally I've eyed them at various other hours of the evening, going in and out of the complex opposing the Nana Hotel.

I've never been to a soapie, and probably not one of your "famous" MP places either. The only porcelain white P4P Thai "girl" I can recall ever seeing was one who sometimes stood outside the Heidelberg bar on Soi 4, who claimed to be half German. My guess is this colour is easier to find in the P4P of some South American cuntries, certainly in Europe where Masacuata said he also has mongering experience.

Maybe he can find a list of these "famous MP's" with "many porcelain" like TGs in the MP section of ISG Thailand? And maybe they will also cum within his economical criterion or, as he put it, "price-quality".

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Wendella

08-17-08, 04:21

I assume you're referring to my report. Maybe I'm missing some in-joke here, but firstly I got full service for that price, and secondly, I made it clear that for the first time, price wasn't the biggest driver!

And Mick Licker, thanks for the pointer. I agree that I should have spent some more time in the Massage Parlours forum, and I would have had a better idea what to pay. Ah well, live and learn. I still think $65 AUD well spent for the first time.

Just to get it straight, the "Bangkok Reports" thread is for what exactly if it isn't reports of sexual encounters in massage parlours. Reports of sexual encounters with bar girls? Or anything other than Massage Parlours. Serious query.

Cheers

Looks like Opebo did some lazy reading and didn't notice the entire paragraph where you talked about FS. He also didn't quote your message so we knew which post he was referring to. And then didn't acknowledge your apparently correct correction of his misquote. Maybe he'll read again and see the mistake and make good on it.

Yeah the unwritten rule is to post about massage places in the massage thread, and this one is for other kinds like go-gos, bars, clubs, etc. -- in a word, "nightlife". Plenty of people post and forget the rule from time to time, but good to keep in mind.

M P Lurker

08-17-08, 06:11

Just to get it straight, the "Bangkok Reports" thread is for what exactly if it isn't reports of sexual encounters in massage parlours. Reports of sexual encounters with bar girls? Or anything other than Massage Parlours. Serious query.

Cheers
Its up to individual interpretation, but since there is a Bangkok Massage Parlours thread, most MP visits and info are reported there. The Bangkok thread is therefore for all other Bangkok stuff, e.g. bars and bargirls, freelancer street walkers, Gentlemen's clubs, etc.

I treat the General Thread for as the place for miscellaneous stuff that doesn't pertain to any particular place or perhaps stuff not related to sex, e.g. where to get a phone card, cameras, etc.

But 1500 Baht is the going rate for FS (full sex) in Bangkok "Oily" MPs so just ignore those who are saying its a lot of money. Some mongers are on a very tight budget.

M P Lurker

08-17-08, 06:19

Thanks Skeeter. Which gogos in Soi Cowboy would you consider more "hands on?"
With regards to Cowboy, my recent visit to Long Gun was rather boring. The remaining most skilled dancers have left, in particular the skinny but very pretty Miss N.

The talent is down a bit at the moment. So I didn't bother to stay long. The crazy girl with spiky blonde hair is still there. But if you like Pat Pong type weird shows (I don't) like pussy firing darts, then Long Gun is O.K.

NicFrenchy

08-17-08, 06:28

Overall, for a person new to the game, I think Aviva was a good introduction.

Cheers

Nice report, thank you for taking the time to share.
I suggest you really read the Massage Thread to get acquainted with the prices and kind of service to expect.

I personally do not like Aviva but I am happy to see they might be getting better, maybe it is time I check it out again.

Also, one thing never to forget: Never agree to have a lady assigned to you, as the buyer, it is entirely your choice so ask to see all the ladies.
As good as the lady they assign you might look, there always might be an even better one waiting ;)

Daddy07

08-17-08, 09:13

...But 1500 Baht is the going rate for FS (full sex) in Bangkok "Oily" MPs so just ignore those who are saying its a lot of money. Some mongers are on a very tight budget.
That is quite true as far as the girl is concerned, but in order to avoid any confusion on this subject, lets not forget the fee for the house, which, I am told, ranges somewhere between 600-800 baht for a 90 minute session.

So the total cost for an average 90 minute session, including FS, will cost the monger 2100-2300 baht.

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot that the girls usually expect a little "tip" of 500 baht as well, which brings the actual cost up to 2600-2800 baht. Not bad for a session of great sex with a beautiful young girl, but not inexpensive either.

That's about what you pay, isn't it, Mick?

Opebo

08-17-08, 09:30

I assume you're referring to my report. Maybe I'm missing some in-joke here, but firstly I got full service for that price,

Looks like Opebo did some lazy reading and didn't notice the entire paragraph where you talked about FS.

I most certainly did not read lazily, and I most certainly did understand that Bellyboy got 'full service' for that price. I was merely noting that all he got in the way of a blow job was a covered one - and thus to most of us worthless, and really somewhat below the standard one can still expect in Bangkok. However I do not doubt that BBBJ will become more and more rare as the scene declines, prices increase, and the supply of girls continues to contract.

M P Lurker

08-17-08, 11:30

That is quite true as far as the girl is concerned, but in order to avoid any confusion on this subject, lets not forget the fee for the house, which, I am told, ranges somewhere between 600-800 baht for a 90 minute session.

So the total cost for an average 90 minute session, including FS, will cost the monger 2100-2300 baht.

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot that the girls usually expect a little "tip" of 500 baht as well, which brings the actual cost up to 2600-2800 baht. Not bad for a session of great sex with a beautiful young girl, but not inexpensive either.

That's about what you pay, isn't it, Mick?
Yeh Daddy,
Actually I don't usually add it up and what I pay isn't always the same. It depends on the girl a lot. If she was rather ordinary, I would just tip the standard 1500 in addition to the massage fee downstairs whatever it was.
I often reserve the right to extend to 2 hours, if I am having a good time.
I may pay extra beyond the 1500 to the girl if she put in a really exceptional performance and depending on how hard she had to work for it. This confuses the girl sometimes as I don't necessarily tip exactly the same amount each time for the same girl but explain that she got extra because I was specially difficult on that occasion.
Its fair that the harder she works, the more she gets.
I do work the girls harder than the average customer. But being rewarded accordingly, they are usually happy to see me again. Girls don't like guys that are unjust.
I like to repeat with girls that are consistently giving me a great time. It beats the normal crap shoot.

Wendella

08-17-08, 14:10

I most certainly did not read lazily, and I most certainly did understand that Bellyboy got 'full service' for that price. I was merely noting that all he got in the way of a blow job was a covered one - and thus to most of us worthless, and really somewhat below the standard one can still expect in Bangkok. However I do not doubt that BBBJ will become more and more rare as the scene declines, prices increase, and the supply of girls continues to contract.

Ah ok. Got it. Misunderstanding. When you said:

And the poor guy only got a CBJ for that 2,100 baht!

to some people that reads as 'that's all he got'. But now of course I see you meant to refer just to the BJ portion of the session. I think Bellyboy thought you were slamming him for being a sucker and only getting a CBJ (and just that) for 2100.

NicFrenchy

08-17-08, 16:53

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot that the girls usually expect a little "tip" of 500 baht as well, which brings the actual cost up to 2600-2800 baht.

No, they don't.
If you are refering to oilies, then the girls are very happy to pocket the 1,500 and do not expect anything more. Of course, tips are always well appreciated but not at all "expected".

Even the Tulip girls, who offer Anal as a standard to all customers do not charge more than 1,500. I always tip them because of the Anal offer and also for the fact that they are really service minded and make a lot of efforts, but none of them ever expect a tip.

NicFrenchy

08-17-08, 17:01

Its fair that the harder she works, the more she gets.
I do work the girls harder than the average customer. But being rewarded accordingly, they are usually happy to see me again. Girls don't like guys that are unjust.

I agree with that, I yesterday was with a girl at a soi 26 oily and tipped her extra (over and above the 1,500) because we went at it for the full 2 hours of the session (I had trouble coming). She never complained and was rather happy saying I was "strong" and that she liked me. She gave me her phone and made me promise to call her on her day off so we can see each other again (Not sure I will do that as it is too soon to invite her to my home but I will surely go back and see her next week).

Now, what happends if the opposite occurs? the girl is lazy and gives you a below average session, would it be fair to underpay? LOL (I guess not)

M P Lurker

08-17-08, 18:17

Now, what happends if the opposite occurs? the girl is lazy and gives you a below average session, would it be fair to underpay? LOL (I guess not)
It might be fair to underpay, but its not polite and you will get a bad reputation and soon every girl will be warned not accept you. I'm speaking hypothetically of course.

Opebo

08-17-08, 19:07

It might be fair to underpay, but its not polite and you will get a bad reputation and soon every girl will be warned not accept you. I'm speaking hypothetically of course.

This unfair rigging of the game against the customer is why one should never tip. The reward to the good girls will be a very busy day with many returning customers, and thus a high income. The one who offers poor service will presumably have to subsist only on first-timers as no one will return to see her a second time.

Neidermeyer

08-17-08, 21:29

With regards to Cowboy, my recent visit to Long Gun was rather boring. The remaining most skilled dancers have left, in particular the skinny but very pretty Miss N.

The talent is down a bit at the moment. So I didn't bother to stay long. The crazy girl with spiky blonde hair is still there. But if you like Pat Pong type weird shows (I don't) like pussy firing darts, then Long Gun is O.K.Thanks Mick Licker. I will be in BKK for one night this Fri. Since I won't have much time, I'm looking for the best gogos for a great time, and to find quality girls (looks and service). Based on earlier reports, I was planning to hit Soi Cowboy, but now I'm not sure. Where should I go to maximize my time?

Thanks!

Horntoad

08-18-08, 01:16

No, they don't.
If you are refering to oilies, then the girls are very happy to pocket the 1,500 and do not expect anything more. Of course, tips are always well appreciated but not at all "expected".

Even the Tulip girls, who offer Anal as a standard to all customers do not charge more than 1,500. I always tip them because of the Anal offer and also for the fact that they are really service minded and make a lot of efforts, but none of them ever expect a tip.

I agree with NF, the girls at oilies never expect a tip but the girls in the soapies around Ratchada kind of expect a 500baht tip. I rarely tip at oilies but normally do give the girls at the soapies 500 baht. This is due partly to the fact that at oilies, the girls get the whole 1500 baht you give them while at the soapies they only get half of what you give the house. Sometimes it is even lower especially if some of the poor girls that don't know any better sign up with an agent. One of my friends that is heavy into the soapie scene and knows a lot of the mamasans and papasans say some of the girls really have a hard time. I'm not advocating to tip with poor service but just keep in perspective how lucky we are with the standard of living we have compared to them.

M P Lurker

08-18-08, 03:33

This unfair rigging of the game against the customer is why one should never tip. The reward to the good girls will be a very busy day with many returning customers, and thus a high income. The one who offers poor service will presumably have to subsist only on first-timers as no one will return to see her a second time.
I'm sure Opebo never wants to screw the same girl twice and is not looking for a GFE.

NicFrenchy

08-18-08, 03:44

It might be fair to underpay, but its not polite and you will get a bad reputation and soon every girl will be warned not accept you. I'm speaking hypothetically of course.

Well, yes it is fair to underpay if one thinks that the fee is linked with the girl's performance but sadly (for us) it isn't.

The way they think (and the way it is actually) is that the moment you insert your dick (even partially) in the pussy, you need to pay 1,500. Time does not matter, you can last a full hour or even 2 seconds, the price stays the same.

Here is what I do: I never tip a girl unless she went above and beyond the call of duty. Her giving me an above average sex experience will certainly be rewarded with a (or several) return visit, however, if she offers additional services (anal, 2 shots, CIM and the likes), I will most likely reward her for it with a tip (over and above the initial 1,500).

Be warned: Tipping left and right can be dangerous!
If you have a session with a girl you like and tip her for just good service, she might expect a tip everytime you go see her. Be clear about what you tip for, don't be scared to tell her why she got the tip.

Now, responding to Opebo's comment about not tipping, I cannot say I agree or disagree, I think it is best to leave it up to the punter's discretion.

NicFrenchy

08-18-08, 08:20

I thought this place was on the verge of closing but it looks like it is not, look at their page on Rakuraku, they have made a real effort trying to promote it.

I am however not quite sure there is enough demand for this concept. Time will tell.

http://www.raku2.tv/mbdetail_gogo.php?id=R020717

Opebo

08-18-08, 08:36

I'm not advocating to tip with poor service but just keep in perspective how lucky we are with the standard of living we have compared to them.

Speak for youself, sir. These girls certainly make more than I or the vast majority of Western teachers in Thailand, and in fact no doubt make more than lots of people in the USA. And that in a country with a somewhat lower cost of living.

Look at it this way - girls in these places make around 2,000-3,000 baht per day, estimating conservatively. So say 60,000 baht per month, most of it untaxed. The average farang teacher in Thailand makes 35,000, and much of the working class back home makes no more than her, in a country where rent is $500-1,000/month.

So please don't misapply pity to these girls - they're raking it in, and doing something which comes naturally.

NicFrenchy

08-18-08, 09:42

So please don't misapply pity to these girls - they're raking it in, and doing something which comes naturally.

You could always offer your services to the older Thai ladies in Thailand. There is a network of ladies looking for a lay. Like we do with escorts, they are paying a high price for their privacy and look for Farang dicks.

How do I know this? well, let's just say that while I was at one of my business parties, a certain older lady asked me if I was interested in meeting her Lonely friends. I was not at all interested in this so did not pursue the conversation further. Maybe OTH with his extensive experience knows about these.

Old Thai Hand

08-18-08, 11:09

You could always offer your services to the older Thai ladies in Thailand. There is a network of ladies looking for a lay. Like we do with escorts, they are paying a high price for their privacy and look for Farang dicks.

How do I know this? well, let's just say that while I was at one of my business parties, a certain older lady asked me if I was interested in meeting her Lonely friends. I was not at all interested in this so did not pursue the conversation further. Maybe OTH with his extensive experience knows about these.

Yes I know about the older Thai 'hen' clubs. They aren't necessarily looking for Farang dick, but young dick, in general. They often have private parties with hi-priced Thai gigilos as well as lower end Patpong style gogo boys. But, I also know of some that go after younger Farang working in offices and especially in schools. For example, there was a 30 year old (unqualified) Farang English teacher (American) at my uni who became the boy-toy of the late 40s Thai department head. She came from a well-healed Thai family and had lots of money when she met him. After a couple of years of basically keeping this guy in the manner to which he was unaccustomed, including a penthouse in the Farang ghetto around Suk 26, a car, trips, clothes, jewelry etc. he had all but bankrupted her, and in the end scammed her for the last 200,000 of her personal part of the family money and then buggered off to Vietnam.

I know of several other such stories. It's more common than is generally known.

Satrai2000

08-18-08, 19:11

Daddy San

08-18-08, 20:03

.....
Look at it this way - girls in these places make around 2,000-3,000 baht per day, estimating conservatively. So say 60,000 baht per month, most of it untaxed. The average farang teacher in Thailand makes 35,000, and much of the working class back home makes no more than her, in a country where rent is $500-1,000/month.

So please don't misapply pity to these girls - they're raking it in, and doing something which comes naturally.
Hi Opebo,
would you let yourself be fucked in the ass all day for 60,000 B, assuming you could find some farang interested ?

Peterbeijing

08-18-08, 21:06

Jimmy Red Cab

08-18-08, 22:18

Gentlemen: This is a 2 parter.

1. I like the daytime. Where can I meet lovelies during the day? By day, I mean pre 4ish. Yes, I am aware of soapies, oilies, etc.

I have to think the issue is volume ans quality in day vs. night.

2. Do you know the optimum hours for Thermae and the Beer Garden? Are these daytime places or after the clubs close places?

Thanks

The Beer Garden is mainly a daytime venue -----even though it is still open at night.

Thermae is only open at night, starts to get lively from 23-00.

You will struggle to find "quality" in either venue ---in my opinion.

Easy2007

08-19-08, 01:31

The Beer Garden is mainly a daytime venue -----even though it is still open at night.

Thermae is only open at night, starts to get lively from 23-00.

You will struggle to find "quality" in either venue ---in my opinion.Patience is rewarded, and the fact that energy prices, food prices etc.. are all rising is now taking its toll. Lots more new faces at both venues, not full time, but occasional when money gets tight.

Had a few really nice ones from both venues - and now its low season, less "package tour types" around as high air fares take their toll as well, the level of girls freelancing has gotten much better over the past few weeks. Not a lot around, but a few that are certainly above "average".

Peterbeijing

08-19-08, 03:09

NicFrenchy

08-19-08, 03:41

From what I have seen and heard lately, my guess would be that you are better off staying in your room wanking rather than picking up a girl from Thermae.

Jimmy Red Cab

08-19-08, 11:26

But, I would pay extra for beauty, brains, style and good conversation

I wish you the very best of luck, you will need it.

Skeeter

08-19-08, 12:06

I am going to be working very hard in both Bangkok and Pattaya soon. 2 weeks of serious mongering.

I'd like to try many options. I have heard that the Q club is where I might find fairly special freelancers. I guess this means a bit pricey. But, I would pay extra for beauty, brains, style and good conversation to fill in the blanks.

Is this a place worth my limited time? Any other ideas for a more primo experience?

My experience with the Qbar is that the girls are ok ... but not any more so than many of the mongering destinations in these pages and they'll want a lot more money. I don't think they are a higher standard, just more expensive. Beauty & style are easy enough - the others not so much

Skeeter

08-19-08, 12:11

Gentlemen: This is a 2 parter.

1. I like the daytime. Where can I meet lovelies during the day? By day, I mean pre 4ish. Yes, I am aware of soapies, oilies, etc.

Thanks

Gullivers ... ; Chinatown....; around NEP area

Availability is easy enough during the day, quality is much more problematic.

Keep (or call) the girl from the night before

Mart Cham

08-19-08, 12:24

From what I have seen and heard lately, my guess would be that you are better off staying in your room wanking rather than picking up a girl from Thermae.Would you mind elaborating a bit?

Old Thai Hand

08-19-08, 12:43

But, I would pay extra for beauty, brains, style and good conversation to fill in the blanks.

Brains? Good conversation? from a Thai girl? It might be a long search.

1Ball

08-19-08, 14:22

Brains? Good conversation? from a Thai girl? It might be a long search.
Indeed, you might have better luck at finding Big Foot. ;)

Retired Army

08-19-08, 16:40

I am going to be working very hard in both Bangkok and Pattaya soon. 2 weeks of serious mongering.

I'd like to try many options. I have heard that the Q club is where I might find fairly special freelancers. I guess this means a bit pricey. But, I would pay extra for beauty, brains, style and good conversation to fill in the blanks.

Is this a place worth my limited time? Any other ideas for a more primo experience?

I recommend the Pegagus Club. It's pricy, but the quality is above average. I have also had good luck with Bangkok gold Escort Agency.

Retired Army

08-19-08, 16:42

Brains? Good conversation? from a Thai girl? It might be a long search.

Sorry guys, but I married the only one available. Damn is she smart.

Duniawala

08-19-08, 17:52

From what I have seen and heard lately, my guess would be that you are better off staying in your room wanking rather than picking up a girl from Thermae.
Hey, speak for yourself. I have had good luck there about 8 out of 10 times. Best time is after the Japanese have left and all the good looking ones hang out in front of Thermae, eating somtam.

Another thing that helps. I have a regular who for some reason always tries to get another one to join us. If I like one she will go over and talk to the girl to get her to join. Sometimes good and at other times I decline when I am too spent. :D

Rick5269

08-19-08, 19:05

Are there any FS MPs near the airport that I could do in a 4-hr layover?

Couldn't find in a search.

DG69

08-19-08, 19:29

Gullivers ... ; Chinatown....; around NEP area

Availability is easy enough during the day, quality is much more problematic.

Keep (or call) the girl from the night before

Where in Chinatown? I was there only at daytime, didn't saw any signs of p4p.

M P Lurker

08-20-08, 08:47

Sorry guys, but I married the only one available. Damn is she smart.
I like a relatively quiet girl (peaceful).

Bowerboy

08-20-08, 14:38

Member #4537

08-20-08, 15:16

I just got back fom Soi 3 where i fucked a really nice 18 year old Iranian girl..she had an amazing body and was a good fuck too...i was very surprised...cost was 1,500THB and i found her outside Grace Hotel.

There are a lot of Ukrainian girls outside Grace at the moment and some are not too bad at all, not the usual Uzbek bricklayers that you normally see...I thought this girl must have been Uzbek but she insisted she was indeed Iranian, I guess she wouldnt lie about it..either way it was a great change from the usual Thai girls...

You are quite lucky. ST prices outside Grace Hotel were in the 2500-3000 range last time I wondered about (late July). Many were 5/6 in looks at most amidst the ridicolous amount of ladyboys in disguise. Crappy attitude too. Damn inflation. And no discount for younger hobbyists such as myself (19) or those who come from Arab countries. Hmm. I wonder if you can find an Egyptian girl outside Grace Hotel... haha. Would be nice.

Retired Army

08-20-08, 16:22

I like a relatively quiet girl (peaceful).

My wife and I have an understanding: she speaks only when spoken to, and when I want her opinion I will give it to her ;)

Passepartout

08-20-08, 17:14

Luckily not, for I belong to the group of guys that like this concept.

what is the concept?

Evil Penivel

08-20-08, 19:10

what is the concept?

To separate you from as much of your money as possible in the shortest time possible.

Evil

Giotto

08-20-08, 20:04

My wife and I have an understanding: she speaks only when spoken to, and when I want her opinion I will give it to her ;)Hmmm,

She speaks only when spoken to ---- but she is so intelligent. Intelligent women like to receive orders...yes. Sure. And of course you give your opinion to your intelligent wife.

I have Indian customers here who surprise me with statements like: "Woman, speak, if you are spoken to." I am not used to get such stupid statement from a western guy.

You talk nonsense, RA!

Giotto

Giotto

08-20-08, 21:16

Guys,

Besides the fact that it needs some time to get as frustrated about this country as I am, and besides the fact that tourists possibly never experience this, and besides the fact that some Westerners leave Thailand before it gets too bad (RA obviously made it) ... here the latest story. Usually posted in the "Giotto's Stories Thread", but today exclusively for everybody who reads the Bangkok thread of this forum.

---

A few days ago a lady stormed into Livingstone's, and asked for the wife of the owner. The wife of the owner was not in - Chinatown, a party was to be prepared. The lady decided - to wait. For hours. Sitting at the pool, drinking some water - some hours long.

Mrs. Giotto came back and was asked whether she wants to buy a house. Mrs. Giotto basically does not want to buy a house. But - this was an old friend of hers, they worked together in a marketing company which produces commercials - so she listened. The lady wanted to sell her house in Rhangsit, an area close to the old Airport of Bangkok.

Mrs. Giotto talked to me, and I don't really need to buy a house at the moment. I have enough problems, Mrs. Giotto, Livingstone's, the customers, ISG members :) ... I really don't need any more problems at the moment. But - the price for the house was remarkably low - 1.3 Mio. THB for a house, no, not for one house, it was a double unit at one end of a town house series in Rhangsit - a lot of land, too, bought 2 years ago for 1.9 Mio., and then equipped with some more investment about THB 750,000.00 for interior design, furniture, aircons etc. etc. .

I listened to all this, and asked only one question: Why does she sell this house for this price?

Mrs. Giotto disappeared for at least 2 hours, and came back convinced that we should buy this house. The story was:

That lady has a farang husband, and she loves this husband so much, so unbelievalbly much ---- that she also has a Thai boyfriend!!! Yes, you guys out there, you don't believe all this, but this is Thailand. The farang boyfriend is 62 years old and from Australia - and somehow a woman needs some fun in between. The husband still lives in Australia ... so of course this Thai woman will have a boyfriend ...

2 years ago this farang husband had bought this house in Rhangsit for his wife (who is now 38 years old), basically to provide reasonable accomodation for the family of his wife. Ever since the family of the wife is living in this house. ---- Nice story!!! The family of the wife is from Chiang Rai - and they live in Chiang Rai. But the Thai boyfriend of the wife is living in that house, together with his family, parents, grandparents, brothers and sisters, all together 11 persons. Ok, not bad, stupid farang husband buys house for family of Thai boyfriend of his wife. This is Thailand - so everything is still normal.

Now - the wife complaints that the house is a bit small for all family members, and she needed a bigger house. 11 persons in that house (double unit) - too many people, a bigger house was needed. And - family needs to be close, the Thai lady needed the family around her, and she wanted her family to be closer to her.

The farang husband therefor decided to buy another house for the family, somewhere in the Ekkamai area, for THB 5.6 Mio. . That is definitely not much for that area.

Ok, the house was bought, but it needed furniture, interior design and equipment - the farang husband (staying in Australia) transferred THB 500,000.00 to his wife to buy/install all this necessary things - I understand, he did not want to have anything to do with all this - but he paid.

The wife received the THB 500,000.00 - and she, and she, and she ... yes, of course, she wanted to buy all this interior stuff, but ... but ... it was much more fun to gamble a little bit. So she gambled. And - within a few days, hours, minutes - seconds ---- she had lost all the THB 500,000.00 .

Now - there was a problem. The farang husband was important. He was the main income source for the Chiang Rai family, the family of the Thai boyfriend, the income source of hers ... if he found out about this gambling losses he would possibly close the money source - or much worse, he would be angry and look for another wife, or whatever, he would not be too happy if he found out that his wife had lost THB 500,000.00 in gambling sessions.

The husband will return to Thailand soon (before the end of this month).

The wife needs to get some money in that she can present her husband that she bought some interior stuff for that house.

She urgently needs money...very urgently...and that's why she sells that house in Rhangsit.

She talked to my wife: THB 1.3 for that house was really a good deal, and Mrs. Giotto should ask me to pay 1.9 Mio., the house was easily worth it, and I would pay that, and this lady would transfer the land for 1.3 to Mrs. Giotto, and both could split up the difference ha-sip/ha-sip (50/50)..., Mr. Giotto did not need to know about the real price of the transaction... he simply needs to pay. That's all he needs to do ...

Means: Hey, you also only have a farang boyfriend as a money source, so use it, suck as much money out of him as you can suck ...

...

I sometimes wonder whether the people out there know how dangerous this country is, if you really get involved into some serious affairs. We discuss here to many times about bar girls and regulars, even about intelligence :) (RA, Sorry!) ... but what I have learned up to now in this country is:

DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY IN THIS COUNTRY!

What I mean is:

- do not trust Thai business men
- do not trust Thai women in general
- do not trust Thai regulars
- do not trust Thai bar girls
- do not trust Farang living in Thailand
- do not trust Farang connected to a Thai woman but NOT living in Thailand

I know, you all will kick my arse now. But I know that I am right!

DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY IN THAILAND!!!!

Giotto

Giotto

08-20-08, 22:02

1Ball

08-21-08, 00:44

Giotto, your stories today, even though veering away from the norm, should come as no surprise to people familiar with SE Asia, not just Thailand.

INDONESIA : I heard of a foreign customer who was pissed off at his furniture supplier and threatened to stop working with them if they didn't improve their overall business practices. On his next order, they built crates and filled them with sand, to the same weight that the furniture would have been, and sent it off. In Indonesia, suppliers get paid before the goods arrive at destination, so the guy paid, got his container, opened it, and found........sand. He went ballistic and called them on the phone. The suppliers laughed at him, told him to fuck off, and dared him to come over and see them.

Amazin SE Asia.

Anybody else got horror stories involving the wonderful ethics of some business people.

PS. You should be grateful Mrs G told you of the scam her friend was trying to pull on you.

Daddy07

08-21-08, 01:43

...DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY IN THAILAND!!!!

Giotto
Ha ha ha!!! Great story!

I can't even trust myself in Thailand. :D

NicFrenchy

08-21-08, 03:18

I can't even trust myself in Thailand. :D

Priceless... you made me laugh hard with that one

NicFrenchy

08-21-08, 03:22

Giotto,

As usual, your stories are a pure delight ! you give people here an insight that is priceless.

I am eagerly waiting for the next piece. Fortunately for you (or is it really?) in your line of work you see uncommon things every day. ;)

LittleBigMan

08-21-08, 03:46

Giotto,

Sadly your story is so right along with your opinion. Although many of us have read and heard stories such as this as you live here longer sooner or later this types of story start to hit alittle closer to home.

I wasn't born yesterday and consider myself pretty aware of what is going on around me but being here in Thailand I have learned the hard way that you better train yourself to let the big head do all the thinking and there are times even when the big head does the thinking you still can get screwed. Keep yourself alert at all times and listen and don't trust anyone as Giotto has noted. It doesn't mean you have to be mean and disrespectful to everyone. If you get in trouble and expect the legal system to help you " forget it " the culture and legal system compared to how we expect or learned in the Western world doesn't exist here. Sometimes the only thing the Thai's understand is to show them the old fashion way. You play you pay even if it comes down to your life.

I've always tried to do the right thing and give everyone the benefit of the doubt but in Thailand people will sell you out for a baht here and a baht there so visitors and farangs living here " Beware " but it doesn't mean you can't still have a good time!

Just when I thought I was getting out they draw me back in! LBM

Lover Boy #2

08-21-08, 04:23

my wife and i have an understanding: she speaks only when spoken to, and when i want her opinion i will give it to her ;)

bullshit.

when i have more time i will continue my zorro/bullshit effort.

re;

quote:
originally posted by retired army
bullshit. i spent 22 years in the army and i ain't ever pissed on my feet, intentionally that is. there was once in the philippines when i was drunk that i think i pissed on just about everything.

don't be an asshole.

soon i'll go over all of your posts and write "bullshit" over every one that i don't agree with....probably be just over 1,000. i was only trying to post some helpful information that many believe in due to the urea in your waste product.

i have been in places (gymnasium, showers in poorly maintained hotels, brothel showers, etc.)....and this method......once espoused by sgt. azevedo and lt. devries works for me. maybe you were not privy to this information as no one liked you.

http://www.techimo.com/forum/imo-co...foot-[CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109).html

http://naturalcurereviews.com/remed...hletesfoot.html

maybe it works for some...and not for others. who gives a shit how long you were in the army? don't be so quick to judge others....oh...and [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off.

Retired Army

08-21-08, 04:43

Hmmm,

She speaks only when spoken to ---- but she is so intelligent. Intelligent women like to receive orders...yes. Sure. And of course you give your opinion to your intelligent wife.

I have Indian customers here who surprise me with statements like: "Woman, speak, if you are spoken to." I am not used to get such stupid statement from a western guy.

You talk nonsense, RA!

Giotto

Oh come on Giotto you know better than that. Can't you tell when I am
"pulling your leg" with tongue firmly planted in cheek?

Giotto

08-21-08, 07:52

Oh come on Giotto you know better than that. Can't you tell when I am
"pulling your leg" with tongue firmly planted in cheek?LOL,

I think I had no sense of humour last night. I was just going to delete that stupid report, but you read it already ...

I apologize!

Giotto

Giotto

08-21-08, 08:20

Giotto, your stories today, even though veering away from the norm, should come as no surprise to people familiar with SE Asia, not just Thailand.
...Mr. Vice President,

"veering away from the norm" - what does that mean? What is the norm?

Giotto

Giotto

08-21-08, 08:26

...
As usual, your stories are a pure delight ! you give people here an insight that is priceless.

I am eagerly waiting for the next piece. Fortunately for you (or is it really?) in your line of work you see uncommon things every day. ;)NicFrenchy,

Thanks,

All stories I write have truly happened. Nothing added, no lies. Simple reality.

Today I wasted half of the day at the immigration (Sathon Road). Shall I write a report about that :) ???

This country is unbelievable ... oh my god, will I ever get used to all that?

Giotto

Stiffoak 571

08-21-08, 08:31

LOL,

I think I had no sense of humour last night. I was just going to delete that stupid report, but you read it already ...

I apologize!

GiottoNo all very interesting - have a look at this which was in the Observer in London last week -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/17/thailand.familyandrelationships

Lot of problems caused by the property laws and restrictions on foreign ownership

Opebo

08-21-08, 11:45

Guys... here the latest story.

DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY IN THAILAND!!!!

Great story Giotto! And just think he could have avoided all that expense by only doing short time. For example lets say he spends six months per year in Thailand (high estimate), and pays 2,000 baht per short time (very high end), and does it once a day (he's 62 after all), so we're at about 360,000 Thai baht per year. Certainly cheaper than a wife, and without the ridiculous stricture of having to (mostly) fuck only one woman.

Jimmy Red Cab

08-21-08, 13:02

Then - the door of the bar opened, and another customer came in. Also a good customer of Livingstone's. Rich. Very rich. Very Very Very Rich!

That girl immediately greeted that customer and sat down with him. She did not notice the other customer at all. I don't want to imagine how he felt - but I think he really felt like shit. He was treated like shit, here in our bar.

The girl left the bar with the rich customer. He paid the barfine.

This is Thailand. Whether it is Livingstone's or another place - there is no major difference. There are so many pieces of shit around here - nobody can count.

Money is what counts. Nothing else does.

Giotto

Interesting story but it does not shock or surprise me, these girls are mercenary prostitutes, nothing more, nothing less ----- anyone who thinks they are not is sadly deluded, as you quite rightly say -"Money is what counts"

Washburn

08-21-08, 14:11

Today I played pool ... and a customer came in, a customer coming many times to Livingstone's, but as I think not [only] for Livingstone's, but for a girl working in our bar. He really likes this girl!

The girl had just returned today, she was upcountry for some days. Before this customer came in many times, and the girl always seamed to be happy. Today the customer came in, because the girl just returned from ... upcountry (have a hick-up, cannot laugh) ... he really likes her. And - she did not take care at all! She definitely ignored him.

Before this customer had taken her out, had bought drinks for her, came nearly every day ... but today the girl was hiding somewhere, did not want to go with that customer.

I watched it, quite concerned about the customer, but - I couldn't do anything. I never talked to that customer before - he did not know me, and he would not take me seriously anyway.

Then - the door of the bar opened, and another customer came in. Also a good customer of Livingstone's. Rich. Very rich. Very Very Very Rich!

That girl immediately greeted that customer and sat down with him. She did not notice the other customer at all. I don't want to imagine how he felt - but I think he really felt like shit. He was treated like shit, here in our bar.

The girl left the bar with the rich customer. He paid the barfine.

This is Thailand. Whether it is Livingstone's or another place - there is no major difference. There are so many pieces of shit around here - nobody can count.

Money is what counts. Nothing else does.

Giotto

Maybe there is a good reason the girl ignored the customer, Giotto. You don't have a clue what goes on between them when they're out of your bar.

I'm not going to speculate what it might be because the possibilities are endless and most of them have nothing to do with money.

I can say that I've spent a fair bit of time with one of the LL girls and she has declined my offers to purchase gifts for her when we've been together, and never once asked me for money in our email correspondence, nor have I sent her any. She generally behaves less like a prostitute than most of my, and my friends', girlfriends/wives here in Farangland who are financial bloodsuckers by comparison.

I'm a customer, and I still think you should be on the girl's side except in very clear cases. The customers are big boys and have - God knows - loads of options for getting laid in Bangkok. They don't need your help or misplaced sympathy. The girls, on the other hand, need your support and sometimes protection.

Retired Army

08-21-08, 15:53

LOL,

I think I had no sense of humour last night. I was just going to delete that stupid report, but you read it already ...

I apologize!

Giotto

No apology necessary. It's all in fun and hopefully no one takes it too seriously.

Giotto

08-21-08, 16:03

...
I'm a customer, and I still think you should be on the girl's side except in very clear cases.
...Washburn,

Don't worry, I am most of the times on the girls side - may be too much. Sometimes I think I am blind on the customers eye ...

We always tried to make this place a little bit different with all the benefits, support and protection we give to the girls. That's why a behavior like this shocks me. It is furthermore a question of good behavior to say Hello and have a short smalltalk, even if the girl has plans already for later in the evening. The customer knows in which business the girls works, and he cannot complain if the girl has a date already with another guy.

May be she simply had a bad day.

Giotto

Traveler1234

08-21-08, 17:03

DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY IN THIS COUNTRY!

What I mean is:

- do not trust Thai business men
- do not trust Thai women in general
- do not trust Thai regulars
- do not trust Thai bar girls
- do not trust Farang living in Thailand
- do not trust Farang connected to a Thai woman but NOT living in Thailand

Giotto

But we do trust italian painters :D

Fon Tok

08-21-08, 19:56

But we do trust italian painters :D

...and German sausage makers?

Washburn

08-21-08, 20:01

Washburn,

Don't worry, I am most of the times on the girls side - may be too much. Sometimes I think I am blind on the customers eye ...

We always tried to make this place a little bit different with all the benefits, support and protection we give to the girls. That's why a behavior like this shocks me. It is furthermore a question of good behavior to say Hello and have a short smalltalk, even if the girl has plans already for later in the evening. The customer knows in which business the girls works, and he cannot complain if the girl has a date already with another guy.

May be she simply had a bad day.

Giotto

I've gotten the impression that LL is a really good place to work, and I think that pays off in the attitudes of your girls, who are charming by any standard, and great fun to be around.

Whatever you're doing is working, and I know that your customers - including me - rate LL and its ladies very highly.

Thomas Jefferson

08-21-08, 20:16

Went to Nana Plaza G-spot 2nd floor. Nice girls in there. Had a drink, and choose one girl. Her name is "oh" or so. She has No. 1.

Lookes like 20 but is 29 very slim, small, just as I like them.

Barfine 600 baht, short time 1500-2000 depends on the time in the evening. They will not negotiate the price too much.

We went to my hotel and had a nice shorttime session. Frech kissing, BBBJ CIM, fucking, really very good performance. She is this weekend off, will come back on Monday.

Maybe tomorrow I will choose her friend no 50. Who lookes very pretty too.

Thomas Jefferson

Giotto

08-22-08, 03:21

...
Whatever you're doing is working, and I know that your customers - including me - rate LL and its ladies very highly.Washburn,

Thanks for the flowers, but I am not so sure about that any more.

I think we have some really good girls working at Livingstone's. But if I watch cases like this I can only shake my head. That's exactly what I don't want to happen here. Let's play the game honest and fair - and with good style and behavior. What that girl did that night had no style at all, and only showed bad behavior.

What shocks me most is that she is one of those I considered up to now to be the best...

Giotto

Giotto

08-22-08, 03:24

But we do trust italian painters :DMr. Marketing Director,

In general you can trust italian painters (except they want to borrow money from you, artists never have money :) ).

In this specific Giotto case you CANNOT trust, because he is a Farang living in Thailand (Case 5) :):):) .

Giotto

Member #3428

08-22-08, 03:32

What shocks me most is that she is one of those I considered up to now to be the best...

everyone is allowed a bad day and a few mistakes in life...

Wendella

08-22-08, 05:28

But we do trust italian painters :D

What about Italian painters connected to a Thai wife and doing business in Thailand?

Just teasing. ;)

Giotto

08-22-08, 05:39

What about Italian painters connected to a Thai wife and doing business in Thailand?
...Wendella,

No question, those people are the worst of all :) .

Giotto

DRRonin

08-22-08, 05:47

My experience with the Qbar is that the girls are ok ... but not any more so than many of the mongering destinations in these pages and they'll want a lot more money. I don't think they are a higher standard, just more expensive. Beauty & style are easy enough - the others not so much

What I have discovered is the girls set their pricing depending on where they are - they understand market rates and charge accordingly. I have one friend Aa who tells me that when she does the Nana Parking Lot she charges 1,000 - 1,500 baht, if she moves into the Nana Disco the price goes up to 2,000 and when she goes to one of the upscale discos she charges 3,000 -4,000 baht. Another friend charges 2,000 at Gullivers (around 8pm) and later when she goes to Qbar she charges 4,000 baht. So you might wonder why they even bother with the lower price locales - because sex costs them nothing and 1500 baht is 1500 baht they didn't have in the morning. Also you never know if you will get a customer later at night and you have to be crazy to walk by money offered. Many of the freelancers do a nightly run of all the places in hopes they hit the jackpot in one or more of them.

Marstop

08-22-08, 06:09

What I have discovered is the girls set their pricing depending on where they are - they understand market rates and charge accordingly. I have one friend Aa who tells me that when she does the Nana Parking Lot she charges 1,000 - 1,500 baht, if she moves into the Nana Disco the price goes up to 2,000 and when she goes to one of the upscale discos she charges 3,000 -4,000 baht. Another friend charges 2,000 at Gullivers (around 8pm) and later when she goes to Qbar she charges 4,000 baht. So you might wonder why they even bother with the lower price locales - because sex costs them nothing and 1500 baht is 1500 baht they didn't have in the morning. Also you never know if you will get a customer later at night and you have to be crazy to walk by money offered. Many of the freelancers do a nightly run of all the places in hopes they hit the jackpot in one or more of them.My experience is that price is also a function of time of day/night. Picked 2 girls up on Sukh. At Soi 11 just off work from Nana Plaza bar. Both for 3 hrs for 1500B all in. Three shots and they wanted more but I had to sleep. Can't get back to BKK till Nov. Have to settle for 141SEX girls in HK next week. LOL!

Old Thai Hand

08-22-08, 08:40

Mr G

Didn't we have a very lengthy discussion last year about lying in Thailand?

To reiterate: Thais are liars. All of them. They are hard-wired to lie. It underpins their culture in such a way that it would collapse if they were ever to suddenly be held accountable for their lies. Lying here knows no class, practiced as it is from the highest levels of society to the lowest. People of (apparently) the highest moral calibre are just as likely to lie (perhaps, even more so), as the lowliest bargirl trickster.

Your story was quite interesting, but predictable.

Wendella

08-22-08, 16:23

What I have discovered is the girls set their pricing depending on where they are - they understand market rates and charge accordingly. I have one friend Aa who tells me that when she does the Nana Parking Lot she charges 1,000 - 1,500 baht, if she moves into the Nana Disco the price goes up to 2,000 and when she goes to one of the upscale discos she charges 3,000 -4,000 baht. Another friend charges 2,000 at Gullivers (around 8pm) and later when she goes to Qbar she charges 4,000 baht. So you might wonder why they even bother with the lower price locales - because sex costs them nothing and 1500 baht is 1500 baht they didn't have in the morning. Also you never know if you will get a customer later at night and you have to be crazy to walk by money offered. Many of the freelancers do a nightly run of all the places in hopes they hit the jackpot in one or more of them.

When I was there in December, I took a girl from Nana parking lot to my hotel around 1am, she immediately seemed very comfortable and open with me. When we finished up, had to go out with her to the ATM to take out some money to pay. Gave her the money, I was tired. She was heading off, I asked her how far she had to go home -- she told me she was just going down to Spice disco (the one in Ambassador) to see if she could catch another customer, and even told me I should go check it out some night, another spot to find girls. Yeah so I'm sure there's a freelancer circuit -- right places to be at certain times. As we make the rounds hunting them, they make the rounds hunting us.

LittleBigMan

08-22-08, 17:44

Giotto,

Here is my take. All we can do is generalize about the situation. The fact that this guy has been coming around looking for her confirms your opinion that he likes this girl. Now it seems on this particular day he came in unexpected and the girl might have already promised the rich guy that she would go with him. It could be that after a few days with this guy she sense he was getting serious and although it's about money she didn't want to lead him on since there are bigger fish out there like the rich guy. It could be the guy smells or he's into freaky type of sex, or he has a bad temper. Thai's don't seem to like confrontation so it might be her way of letting him know that she no longer interested or that she has another customer line up today. Whatever the reason good or bad this was her way!

In the end, she did the guy a favor! as for all Thai's being liar's. I don't think they look at it the same way we do. To them it's a white lie or stretching the truth, or saving face for themselves. As OTH, said they do it so often that it's enbedded into their lives and culture and they don't even know that they are doing something wrong and if you ever pointed it out to them you would be in hot water!

LBM

Irjle

08-22-08, 18:22

I have been living abroad now for 15+ years in 4 different Countries working on my own and from my experience Giotto is "almost" right. You should not trust anyone in any country but especially in countries poorer than yours because people will be more inclined to cheat somebody that they think is way richer than them. Having said that, let me tell one personal story.

In 1992, first trip to LOS. Meet gorgeous girl in Pattaya. Gorgeous means farangs jaw-dropping in the street, Thai people shaking my hands congratulating "Nice lady Sir! ", US marines filming her with their big S-VHS recorders on Walking street. Sweet and fluent in English. Young and sex-loving.

So we spend a wonderful week together.

Now I was young and stupid, so once back to Italy I buy and send her a pre-paid ticket to Rome that cost me a good chunk of my salary. Her sister had married a Norwegian so it was also a good chance to meet her sister during the trip. We exchange letters (no internet or cellphones), the day of the flight arrives. And she calls me saying she will not come. Several months pass and she writes once or twice asking me to forgive her. Then I go again to Pattaya, I write I will be in her gogobar ("Fire and Ice", for all you old masters) on day x just to meet her. I sit down, she is not there. "Of course" I think. Two minutes later, two arms around my waist. She is there. We hug and kiss and talk, and ten minutes later she gives me back the ticket and says "See, I did not sell it! ". So I got it back and got also the money back from the airline once in Rome.

She never came to Italy, too afraid, she said. Maybe scared by her sister and her tales about Norwegian weather.

I also have another couple of stories like this that happened more recently, but to make it short: sometimes, but very, very rarely, you will find a person like her in any country, even in los. In that case you may or may not trust her but you should not trust yourself! I mean, goodness me, buy an expensive prepaid ticket (which is cash, more or less) to an almost unknown bar-girl half a world away? How stupid I was? If she had asked me for money I would have sent money, no doubt!

In a nutshell, keep open your eyes, prepare for the worse (especially abroad), but wherever you are your worst enemy is ALWAYS yourself.

Just my 2 eurocents.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Evil Penivel

08-22-08, 21:48

My experience is that price is also a function of time of day/night.

That's a very accurate assessment. The same girl can give different punters wildly different prices over the course of the evening, or give the same punter different prices, depending on the hour.

In Baccara on Soi Cowboy, one of the top girls quoted me around 8 p.m. a price of 4,000 baht for S/T. I said no, she finished in her LD in a swallow and left me. No further discussion or attempts at persuasion from her side as she obviously figured she had several hours in which to hook a top-payer.

I exited soon after myself but came back around 12.30 a.m. to see if a farang friend was there. The same BG approached me again and immediately offered to go with me for 3,000 S/T, then 3,000 L/T, and finally 2,000 L/T. I said no because I saw "STARFISH" tattooed on her forehead, but that was her bottom line.

It's about the same routine in Nana Car Park. Right at 1.30 a.m., when the BGs who haven't found customers (or are coming back for the second or third of the night) are on the hunt, the good-looking ones will start at 3,000 S/T, take it or leave it. If they're still around 30 or 60 minutes later and see you again, the price will come down. However, you'll have to be exxtremely lucky to find a decent girl for less than 1,000 baht S/T.

It has very little to do with the punter's bargaining skills. It hangs to some degree on his appearance and age, if he's going to take her to after-hours club or straight back to his hotel, etc. Sometimes girls are happy to get an older punter because they figure he'll be least work in the shortest time. Other times they're in the mood for a younger guy who'll take them dancing first. But mostly it hangs on how badly she needs money. That can vary considerably from day to day.

Evil

LittleBigMan

08-22-08, 23:33

E.P.

This is exactly the reason why when I'm in BKK, and as always on a budget I let the Big Head do the thinking instead of LBM. In my short visits, I make a visit to Tulip, and get that oily and that 5 star service to tired LBM out. That way when I go out later that evening for the hunt, if I find a freelancer for the price I want that is all extra's and if it doesn't happen I just go to bed alone. Just having to negotiate the price kills my mood and to make sure I don't get a starfish I always make they know what is expected of them if they agree on the price.

Mongering sometimes is alot of work! LBM

Old Thai Hand

08-23-08, 03:19

as for all Thai's being liar's. I don't think they look at it the same way we do. To them it's a white lie or stretching the truth, or saving face for themselves. As OTH, said they do it so often that it's enbedded into their lives and culture and they don't even know that they are doing something wrong and if you ever pointed it out to them you would be in hot water!LBM

While your assessment, re: white lies is largely the case on a day to day basis, Thais are also often guilty of some of the most blatant and damaging lies, that one can imagine to the point of, in the case of business, out and out fraud.

I have been the victim of little white lies, and big lies from girls, of course and from other Thais, incredible dishonesty in work situations and most recently, in what amounts to a case of blatant fraud. Without boring people with the details, I found out that my current contract, (written only in Thai BTW, without any translation), which I was assured was merely the details of my original English contract transferred to the official government university contract is in fact completely different. In case anybody suggests, that I should have had the contract checked, I wasn't given any time to do this. If I had delayed signing it in order to have it verified, I would have been in ewmployment limbo without salary. The result of all of this is that they tried to more than double my workload, not pay for my work permit or health insurance and impose a host of other terms not originally part of my employment agreement - this from the #1 university in the country, the so-called "Royal University", where one would at least hope for some semblance of honourable behaviour. Fortunately, they quickly backed down when I hired a labour lawyer and threatened to sue them for fraud and misrepresentation.

I'm often condemned on here for making generalizations about Thais, calling them scum etc. But, the fact is that most of you have relatively little real experience in dealing with Thais and therefore don't know the depths to which they will go to fuck people over. And, BTW, they do it just as much to each other.

Giotto is totally correct. You cannot trust Thais in any way, shape or form.

Giotto

08-23-08, 05:29

...
I sit down, she is not there. "Of course" I think. Two minutes later, two arms around my waist. She is there. We hug and kiss and talk, and ten minutes later she gives me back the ticket and says "See, I did not sell it! ". So I got it back and got also the money back from the airline once in Rome.
...
Irjle,

Good story, and I have experienced lots of stories like this, too.

That is the dangerous impression we get sometimes - there are some good people out there, and we can trust... . And though I know that it is a generalization I would stick to my opinion, that in case that things get difficult in a life of a Thai, financial problems occure, family members are sick - even those often mentioned good people will suddenly turn into the opposite and create nightmares for you.

Another example (happened 2 - 3 months ago):

- A Dutch business man running his business for 28 years with a Thai partner came to the office one morning and found that his partner had decided to leave - together with all deposits of the companies bank accounts (Millions, as he told me) . After 28 years of building that business, working together - this Dutch guy really trusted his partner! The Dutch guy is completely ruined, the company bankrupt, and he is leaving the country now.

Do not trust! Do not do it!

Giotto

Cunning Stunt

08-23-08, 10:35

Problem is that this lying thing is not just a Thai phenomenon; it seems to be endemic throughout the region. Filipino’s love to tell the most complicated and convoluted porkies when the truth would be infinitely less complicated. Maybe it’s a cultural thing in that the process of lying is not censured in childhood and does not have the stigma that still exists (although much reduced) in the west. So no guilt trip

I’ve always maintained it easy to tell if a Filipina bargirl is lying – her lips are moving and sounds are emerging:). This obviously applies just as forcibly to Thai’s and seemingly not to just bar workers.

El Frances

08-23-08, 14:41

I agree with the various location/time of the day information in this thread. In more upscale discos, you find often the same (type of) girls you can get for 1000 ST in Biergarden or Nana Disco, with long dresses. Sometimes, there are also occasional freelancers who have a regular job and wouldn't go to Biergarden, Nana Disco or parking lot. That's the only (valuable) difference to me.

For me, the best hunting ground was Sukhumvit/Nana aera after closing time. Lots of girls from bars, Go-Gos and massage shops around waiting for a last chance to get a customer. No barfine and no price problem!

PS. Just to remind some fundamentals about Thailand. A young employee with an bachelor's degree in managements from an average university makes 8-12 000/month, a clothes seller in Prathunam 6-10 000 depending on commission, a fast-food employee doesn't makes more than 30 bath/hour...

LittleBigMan

08-23-08, 18:47

OTH,

Your larger opinion is right, I was only touching the surface. Without going into details in the short time that I have been here I have experience what you just described and more. Much more than I ever care to experience! I didn't retired early to have to go through the bullshit that I have been throught. Although, I learn the hardway and I am much more cautious now but I refuse to believe that every Thai are liar's. As you noted I'm more concern with the lie's that are related to business and outright fraud. As I noted earlier this includes govenment officials, police, lawyers, contractor's, etc... that I have taken the attitude " buyer beware in Thailand " and if you are in a jam don't expect the legal system to help you. I don't express my outrage in front of my wife because I don't want her to think I hate every Thai and I don't let her know how I'm going about getting back to those that have wrong me. Instead of paying lawyers I use my money wisely. I rather pay those who can take care of the problem quickly the only way Thai understand and still have money left to get laid!

LBM

Andre Cuipers

08-23-08, 18:49

Wow

I was (with my wife) in Bangkok on August 19!

One year ago I went manny times to Bangkok and had a lot of drinking/gogobar fun.

Almost no happy hour beers any more in Soi Cowboy (if they have a few people inside they don't show the happy hour 6. 30-8. 30 boards any more). So you have to pay at least 90 bath but in most cases 120 bath to get a little beer or a softdrink.

I went to Baccara and the (renewed) Spice Girls. Almost fell in sleep so dull the dancers are and in Spice Girls all girls seam to be fat so you cannot see a pussy watching from behind under the skirts (they don't wear panties).

Better head to Pattaya now where you can see naked pussies and take bears for 40-55 bath whole night (even with free food in soy 14 at a gogo bar named something with dolls).

Other reports mention 1000bath for having a girl.

Maybe that is for short time and if you are a little younger.

If you get above 50 they see dollars in their eyes and prices are 2000 at the famous sukhimvit (soi 5 or 7? ) beerbar and 4000 at bars (all in- long time) and most are way above 25. In Pattaya still 21-23 year ald gems can be found at 2000bath all in long time at soy 6 and at beerbars the older type woman (which you get in Bangkok) for 1000 bath all in long time.

So just head to Pattaya if you care about fun and money. (so also give Hua Hin a big miss)

Amjeck

08-23-08, 19:13

You cannot trust Thais in any way, shape or form.
This is the best advice for anyone wishing to visit or stay in Thailand!

Calbear1229

08-24-08, 01:38

From a monger's POV, what should we most be concerned about?

Wendella

08-24-08, 08:48

Better head to Pattaya now where you can see naked pussies and take bears for 40-55 bath whole night (even with free food in soy 14 at a gogo bar named something with dolls).

Other reports mention 1000bath for having a girl.

I realize English is your second language, so hesitate to tease -- but just such a perfect little mistake there. You obviously meant BEERS (the beverage) and not BEARS (the dangerous animal).

So I just wonder, if you take a bear overnight for only 55 baht, does the hotel make sure to take their ID? Definitely a good bargain for guys who like their sex on the adventurous side. But I'd be a bit leery of the BBBJ.

M P Lurker

08-24-08, 09:10

.....
Giotto is totally correct. You cannot trust Thais in any way, shape or form.
While in general, lying and bullshit is endemic in Thailand, completely trustworthy Thais do exist.
The ones I know are mostly from the lower classes.
For some reason I would trust upper class Thais less.

There is a Thai girl I have known for 15 years who is virtually an adopted sister. She doesn't lie and is totally trustworthy. If she borrows money, she always pays back in a short time.
She actually has plenty of money in the bank. She supports several members of her family including mother sister, nephew, etc. She has some very untrustworthy brothers.

She once lost her wallet in a bus in Thailand. It held a very large amount of cash (stupid girl). The bus cleaner handed it in unopened, and she got all her money back, a huge amount.

So don't despair guys. It is possible to find a very honest Thai person in keeping with the Buddhist faith.

But its very very difficult to know when you have found one for certain. But after several years you might know.

Flyhere

08-24-08, 10:24

While in general, lying and bullshit is endemic in Thailand, completely trustworthy Thais do exist.
The ones I know are mostly from the lower classes.
For some reason I would trust upper class Thais less.....

Of course Mick, Giotto, OTH, and others have been here a long time. I have only been here a few weeks, but can certain echo what are being said.

Having encountered Thai people in the professional work environment, I would not believe them, and would not trust them. They lie through their teeth, and will change their stories depending on who they talk to at the time. They are without doubt the worst people I have worked with. They will lie to make themselves look good, while making others look bad. They will claim credit for something some else did, and will not hesitate stabbing a coworker in the back.

And I agree that if you are to find someone trustworthy, it will be in the lower working class, and never in the educated middle or upper class.

I would believe a working girl in a massage parlour before I trust a Thai at work.

One Tree Hill

08-24-08, 10:44

Believe him. He is spot on. I have been in LOS for nearly three years. I see the real Thailand now. Farang are only a commodity to them. Dishonesty, cheating and fraud are a way of life here. This is not North America or Europe.

You must totally rewire your way of western thinking to even have an idea or concept of the real Thailand (Asia). Nothing is as appears. Nothing.

Thais are utilitarian...whatever gets them ahead is ethical. If you allow yourself to be lied to or cheated that is your poor luck (karma). How else can you justify parents sending little "Pim" to Bangkok to suck dicks. She is a commodity to them and can support the family...therefore its ok. She actually brings honor to the family in that way. Oh the envy of being the first family in the village to own a flat screen TV.

BTW - I have interacted and done business with every level of Thai society EXCEPT Royalty. In fact most of my time here has been spent with fake and greedy hi-so types. They are the worst.

While your assessment, re: white lies is largely the case on a day to day basis, Thais are also often guilty of some of the most blatant and damaging lies, that one can imagine to the point of, in the case of business, out and out fraud.

I have been the victim of little white lies, and big lies from girls, of course and from other Thais, incredible dishonesty in work situations and most recently, in what amounts to a case of blatant fraud. Without boring people with the details, I found out that my current contract, (written only in Thai BTW, without any translation), which I was assured was merely the details of my original English contract transferred to the official government university contract is in fact completely different. In case anybody suggests, that I should have had the contract checked, I wasn't given any time to do this. If I had delayed signing it in order to have it verified, I would have been in ewmployment limbo without salary. The result of all of this is that they tried to more than double my workload, not pay for my work permit or health insurance and impose a host of other terms not originally part of my employment agreement - this from the #1 university in the country, the so-called "Royal University", where one would at least hope for some semblance of honourable behaviour. Fortunately, they quickly backed down when I hired a labour lawyer and threatened to sue them for fraud and misrepresentation.

I'm often condemned on here for making generalizations about Thais, calling them scum etc. But, the fact is that most of you have relatively little real experience in dealing with Thais and therefore don't know the depths to which they will go to fuck people over. And, BTW, they do it just as much to each other.

Giotto is totally correct. You cannot trust Thais in any way, shape or form.

M P Lurker

08-24-08, 10:55

Opebo

08-24-08, 11:01

Interesting tale of the double standard of Thai honesty - everyone in my building always leaves their flip flops or other shoes outside their room. I did too for a while, but mine ALWAYS got stolen - and these were the same 40-60 baht flip-flops everyone else left out. They were stolen because the thief knew a farang lived there (a non-human), and thus there was no bad karma from harming him.

Daddy07

08-24-08, 11:04

... Farang are only a commodity to them...

Thais are utilitarian...whatever gets them ahead is ethical. If you allow yourself to be lied to or cheated that is your poor luck (karma). How else can you justify parents sending little "Pim" to Bangkok to suck dicks. She is a commodity to them and can support the family...therefore its ok...
Well, look at it this way: at least the Thais are willing to treat us like their own children. That's not so bad. :)

M P Lurker

08-24-08, 11:44

... Almost fell in sleep so dull the dancers are and in Spice Girls all girls seam to be fat so you cannot see a pussy watching from behind under the skirts (they don't wear panties).

Your head seems to be quite muddled. Coyote girls in Spice Girls are not fat and wear very short cut off shorts. Maybe some fat gogo girls in there too.

Your comments seem to be related more to Baccara(t).

Betong

08-24-08, 12:14

They were stolen because the thief knew a farang lived there (a non-human), and thus there was no bad karma from harming him.
So you interviewed the thief and that's what he told you?

I'll bet he took them because they fit his feet.

M P Lurker

08-24-08, 12:46

So you interviewed the thief and that's what he told you?

I'll bet he took them because they fit his feet.
Maybe the thief had no use for them at all! Thais like to get those they don't like. Its not safe to make enemies.

Betong

08-24-08, 14:29

Thais like to get those they don't like.
Very true. But "farang = non-human"? I mean, where do people get these ideas? Farang khii nok, maybe, in this case.

P.S. I'm another ISG'er you've met, Mick. But anonymously and not at LL. Hint: It was at SoL and I was talking to Lek . . . .

Old Thai Hand

08-24-08, 14:31

I have interacted and done business with every level of Thai society EXCEPT Royalty. In fact most of my time here has been spent with fake and greedy hi-so types. They are the worst.The assessment that the lower classes are comparatively better (albeit still incredibly untrustworthy) is correct. I would trust the maids and secretaries at work far more than those Thais with whom and for whom I work.

In my particular situation, I work in what increasingly amounts to Stalinist environment in which people spy and inform on others in order to get ahead and dispose of those they don't like. The higher the Thai institution in which one works, the worst it gets. Thais will make up blatant, unsupportable lies to make themselves look good at the expense of others and to get rid of people they don't like. Jealously and envy is more pronounced here than anywhere I have ever worked and lived.

In the case of Farang; we're a necessary evil, which they take great pleasure in demeaning at every opportunity. This is because that deep-down, they know we are better than they are, smarter than they are and far more capable than they are. As a result, they mask their ingrained (and highly justifed) inferiority complex with an arrogance and superiority, not to mention extremely unethical, immoral behaviour, the single purpose of which is to make our lives miserable and push us to the point of leaving.

BTW, I have interacted with some of the Royals - not the Big Enchilada, of course, but the son and a couple of the daughters, and other various hangers-on - and I suspect that they're no better.

Amjeck

08-24-08, 18:14

This is because that deep-down, they know we are better than they are, smarter than they are and far more capable than they are. As a result, they mask their ingrained (and highly justifed) inferiority complex with an arrogance and superiority,

I wish more more people understood this and stopped spoiling the thais!

Traveler1234

08-24-08, 18:28

The assessment that the lower classes are comparatively better (albeit still incredibly untrustworthy) is correct. I would trust the maids and secretaries at work far more than those Thais with whom and for whom I work.

In my particular situation, I work in what increasingly amounts to Stalinist environment in which people spy and inform on others in order to get ahead and dispose of those they don't like. The higher the Thai institution in which one works, the worst it gets. Thais will make up blatant, unsupportable lies to make themselves look good at the expense of others and to get rid of people they don't like. Jealously and envy is more pronounced here than anywhere I have ever worked and lived.

OTH

What you describe doesn't sound a lot different from a lot of corporate America (or many other mnc worldwide)...IMHO.

I don't think the Thais have a monopoly on this. And as far as the royals are concerned, this is certainly true about most royals worldwide, no?

M P Lurker

08-24-08, 18:32

Very true. But "farang = non-human"? I mean, where do people get these ideas? Farang khii nok, maybe, in this case.

P.S. I'm another ISG'er you've met, Mick. But anonymously and not at LL. Hint: It was at SoL and I was talking to Lek . . . .
I'm not sure who Lek is, but I guess my report must have co-incided with some imfamous behaviour you saw. The only names I can remember right now are Ae, Nong and Tuk.

Searching for own posts I see I did indeed play with Lek without having FS (She was on the rag I think) and you must have witnessed a multi-girl sex-capade.

Member #3428

08-24-08, 19:29

OTH

What you describe doesn't sound a lot different from a lot of corporate America (or many other mnc worldwide)...IMHO.

I don't think the Thais have a monopoly on this. And as far as the royals are concerned, this is certainly true about most royals worldwide, no?

I agree, very tiring hearing the bashing of thais... Not only MNC's are like this... it is the same for most third world countries. I live in a banana republic and I see first hand the long line of foreigners who come in all smiles and happy only wanting to abuse us dumb islanders. And I see first hand how many of us dumb island folks screw over the foreigners and I sit back and have to laugh as everyone deserved what they got. Now when an innocent gets screwed over we step up and take care of things, but almost all want to screw us over and they are not innocents and many folks in my home will do their best to screw them over. The tourists, the simple tourists who are here for visit are never touched or screwed over, it is when people are wanting things or abuse things is when they get into trouble in my homeland. I can see the same in Thai, foreigners coming in with money and why should they not try to get some of it. While you are screwing them they will screw you.

Now what I said is a major generalization. Not every person does it in every country, but it is very common place so it amazes me people are surprised when they get screwed over. However there is such a thing of lies by omission which is very common place. There is also the situation of when things go wrong no one knows anything when in reality everyone knows everything but no one says anything. When things go wrong here at my home, everyone knows what happens and we deal with it local style... if it happens to a foreigner who is an idiot then we don't know squat. When it happens to a foreigner who is a good person items get straightened out right away.

These are common, and happen in most countries in the pacific and asia from what I see and where I work and travel (and as many ISG's know I handle a large chunk of asia and the Pacific). I've been messed over by my TGF and she has many omissions of truth. Telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth is hard for many to do. Many will lie or not tell the entire story in fear of saying it will get them hurt or harmed.

When it comes to working girls, many have no father at home, and most have had a BF or husband screw them, leave them with a child and go off to another girl. So why should they trust any guy? Mongers all lie so it takes a long time of lies and partial truths for anything to come real. And when you find a real one, how can you be sure and how can you be sure it will last? Building up that trust stage for a TGF and a Farang takes a long time and takes a lot of hurt and lies to get to a point where there is trust and honesty.

And when it comes to non working girls... many see the movies and think American's eat steak for every meal and sit in air con and do nothing while the people in less developed countries do all the labor. (this comes from people in my own country) So they figure why not try to screw them, Bush and the US Govt. sit in their glass house and throw stones so why not try to mess them over. They feel and see first hand the foreign relations of the USA and how much crap it is. And anyone who is white skinned... is an American.. it makes no difference to them where you really are from.

I'm just looking at it from the POV of someone form a less then less developed country who see's fake NGO's and fake foreigners on a daily basis. And unfortunately, I have to work with the government officials in many countries :( And I am one of the foreigners who come into Thai and try to make deals and get things done and I have to fight this attitude at home and abroad.

It just gets a little tiring to hear so many people bash the thai's. If it is so friggin bad then move or don't go there. Find another place then complain about that country. The point of pride for many of the ISG's is how they got a girl for 1,000 baht or screwed her out of tip or etc... It's a wonder to me why TWG's don't do more drastic items to foreigners. Majority of the working girls in thai and thai people are safe and honest (won't steal your mobile etc..), you want danger, monger in other countries and they will roll you for everything you got. So they tell a few stories... give me a break...

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence....

Giotto

08-24-08, 19:52

I agree, very tiring hearing the bashing of thais...
...
The tourists, the simple tourists who are here for visit are never touched or screwed over, it is when people are wanting things or abuse things is when they get into trouble in my homeland. I can see the same in Thai, foreigners coming in with money and why should they not try to get some of it. While you are screwing them they will screw you.
...
Tansak KTV,

I disagree.

I don't screw anybody, and I don't want that anybody screws me (hmm...I just think about the deeper meaning of "to screw somebody"). I don't want special things, and I don't abuse things, and I don't want that Thais want special things from me, or Thais abuse me!

And if you think the Thais distinguish between farang living here and farang tourist - in regards of ripping somebody off - wrong, no difference, we all are the walking ATM machines.

And - to top it - the professionalism behind all this is unique in Asia. Other countries are showing similar phenomenons, but in my POV it is not as bad as it is here.

Giotto

Giotto

08-24-08, 19:59

...
It's a wonder to me why TWG's don't do more drastic items to foreigners.
...
Tansak KTV,

Now - you please give me a break.

More drastic - killing somebody to get rid of him, to take over the house, furniture, interior etc. etc. seams to be quite "drastic" to me.

Giotto

Member #3428

08-24-08, 20:02

And if you think the Thais distinguish between farang living here and farang tourist - in regards of ripping somebody off - wrong, no difference, we all are the walking ATM machines.

And - to top it - the professionalism behind all this is unique in Asia. Other countries are showing similar phenomenons, but in my POV it is not as bad as it is here.

We all have our own perspective. When it comes to the part about distinguishing the difference between tourists and visitors and living... I am speaking of my own culture, not thai. I agree that thai would not distinguish as it is too large where as my slice of hell is small. We do however distinguish the difference.

I disagree on the other parts of asia / Oceania, some (many) are living hell compared to thai. Some more relatively recent or newer or modern cities are not as bad I will concede (but they are more sterile and lack the vibrant color other places have). But do not imagine the grass is greener on the other side my friend... we all have our own slice of hell and it can be everywhere. If you want utopia... good luck.

Member #3428

08-24-08, 20:09

Tansak KTV,

Now - you please give me a break.

More drastic - killing somebody to get rid of him, to take over the house, furniture, interior etc. etc. seams to be quite "drastic" to me.

Giotto

He lived it and there will always be exceptions, that is not every day. I'm talking the general usual transaction. 98% of the time you pick up a girl, you take her to your room, you bang her, you pay her, she leaves. Maybe 2% of the time you have an issue in Thailand. In other countries the percentage goes way down and it is much riskier. Thai is still safe compared to other countries and I am still surprised there are not more reports of mongers being rolled.

Giotto

08-24-08, 20:12

...
if you want utopia... good luck.Kansak KTV,

I don't want Utopia - a quiet live amongst honest people would be OK!

You think Thailand is Utopia, when you say that the "Majority of the working girls in thai and thai people are safe and honest (won't steal your mobile etc..)" ... and this is wrong! They might not steal your mobile, but that doesn't make them honest!

But - no need to fight - you will learn it the hard way! Believe me!

Giotto

Member #3428

08-24-08, 20:15

But - no need to fight - you will learn it the hard way! Believe me!

Not fighting, just different view points. And not to worry, have seen and learned my share. The latest TGF is going out the door. So no worries.

Giotto

08-24-08, 20:20

He lived it and there will always be exceptions, that is not every day. I'm talking the general usual transaction. 98% of the time you pick up a girl, you take her to your room, you bang her, you pay her, she leaves. Maybe 2% of the time you have an issue in Thailand. In other countries the percentage goes way down and it is much riskier. Thai is still safe compared to other countries and I am still surprised there are not more reports of mongers being rolled.The "general usual transaction" - what is that? Sex for a monger?

Let's talk about business transactions. 90 % of the quotations I get ( as a farang hotel owner ) are completely overpriced - at least twice as much as a usual quotation to a Thai would be. Many times more than that. All that despite the fact that we ask the companies not to add any "farang surcharge".

Is that a "general usual transaction" ?

Giotto

Amjeck

08-24-08, 20:28

Member #3428

08-24-08, 20:31

The "general usual transaction" - what is that? Sex for a monger?

Let's talk about business transactions. 90 % of the quotations I get ( as a farang hotel owner ) are completely overpriced - at least twice as much as a usual quotation to a Thai would be. Many times more than that. All that despite the fact that we ask the companies not to add any "farang surcharge".

Is that a "general usual transaction" ?

Giotto

Majority of the time it is still safe for mongers picking up girls in Thai. Unless you claim it is no longer safe for people to take girls in thailand. That is the general usual transaction... In other parts there is a larger chance of getting rolled then in Thai.

Business dealings... that is a separate issue. I'm sure you don't get the quotes yourself, you get someone else to get the quotes and send local thai's out shopping. It is same as everywhere in the world. You think it is so much different in PI or other countries? You think Thai has the lock on overcharging foreign business owners? You think Thai is the only place that tries to screw over foreigners? It is not as bad as other places I have to be in.

Try Manila, try Oceania, even China can get down right nasty. Thai is not innocent but it is not unique in this regard.

AliasDonkey

08-24-08, 21:26

Jimmy Red Cab

08-24-08, 21:41

Can anyone answer this question as fact or fiction:

On my last visit (2006) to LOS the girls in Bangkok Pay for play seem to come to work if they wanted to thus no additional bar fine if they wanted to stay with us longer?? vs. The girls in Patttaya had to come to work like a regular job and if they stayed with their customer they still had to pay the bar fine.
Can anyone shine some light on this?

Not all Bangkok girls can come and go as they like, it depends if they are on a wage or not.
I met a girl on my last trip from one of the Rainbow bars who pleases herself when she comes in and when she goes but she does not get paid apart from ladydrinks and barfines.
The bars tolerate this because a pretty girl can easily ponce a dozen ladydrinks before she gets barfined.

Old Thai Hand

08-25-08, 01:22

You think Thai is the only place that tries to screw over foreigners? It is not as bad as other places I have to be in.
Try Manila, try Oceania, even China can get down right nasty. Thai is not innocent but it is not unique in this regard.

Of course you're right about other parts of the region. Hell, I experienced the same kind of attitude even when I lived in the Caribbean, which is why I've had it with the 3rd World, in general and am making a real effort to get out.

But, firstly Thailand is a much richer and more developed country than just about any other in the region, with the exception of China. It's certainly much further ahead than PI. The Thais don't think of themselves as 3rd World, especially the type of Thais with whom Giotto and I deal. And as I said previously, they're just as likely to screw each other, as well.

Perhaps the grass isn't any greener elsewhere. But, at least other more developed areas of the world have laws which are actually enforced, and act as a deterrent to being openly abused and exploited. As a result of the heirachy of Thai society, Thais aren't used to expecting or giving fair treatment. So for Farang, coming out of societies that are more equitable and regulated, the situation here becomes unbearable after awhile. I currently have a labour lawyer in a constant state of red alert because of the ongoing blatant and fraudulent behaviour of my employer - a situation, all too common here, that would be far less likely in the West. Fortunately, if I have to pursue legal action, I'll win, even here. I've won actions twice before. But, it just becomes so tiresome to have to do this time and again.