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2002 Thai Women - Opinions & Advice

Joe Zop
05-18-02, 16:02
Amen, Skinless, I'm pleased to see that we're in the new forum, and I hope this improves the signal-to-noise ratio. It was interesting, the site was changing last night as I was reading, but it took me til now to manage to properly post, as something is screwed up with the cookies on my machine. (Finally remembered I could change my options on this site and still participate.)

I think you've got a great list, and I'd add the basic sensibility of the Thai people in general, as even knowing what smiles can hide it's still great to see them. As someone from a northern climate, I'll also say that the beaches and countryside is definitely also a bonus. But your list is dead on.

Joe Zop
05-18-02, 16:26
Originally posted by skinless
As always, when I look back, my regret is I did not bonk more women. I don't want to go there for a month and wish I could have f***ed 62 or 93 women for the month instead.

Seems to me you might be answering your own question.

It's a tough thing to have to choose between being a kid in a candy store who can have one of everything or settle on a favorite. Maybe you can take a page from my book and look for a middle course.

The Traveler
05-18-02, 22:00

You said that you have met Tapioca and *****. Since I had met Tap myself and stay in contact with him and Dick Johnson no need to talk about them. I would like to know what kind of guy ***** is, because his attitude seems to be bad and I never saw any infos from him regarding Tthailand.

Anyway, regarding your sweet tooth, I think staying with one for a longer time (more than 2 or 3 days) usually makes the sex better, cause she knows what you like and when she is comfortable with you, even cares for you.

On the other hand, staying in hunting mode and doing as many as you can is great fun.

I already did both for several years and for me the last choice is the better one. That way you won't regret that you did not do every girl you liked. You also won't be in danger to end up as a married man like me (my wife isn't/wasn't a ho).

Have fun and stay free

Joe Zop
05-19-02, 01:18
Skinless, you're absolutely right that I prefer like you not only to get into the body but the head as well, and obviously by doing so I sail far closer to the edge than friend Zelda would have anyone do. It's the old quality versus quantity issue, and I've more than said my piece on that in the old board. f course none of us wants to say we want strictly one or the other. Candy, especially when you're not worrying about calories, is simply too inviting. But I don't have the same need for the possibility of crashing and burning that you do on this either (though I've got it in other areas, and certainly understand it.) I guess I'm always concerned, first and foremost, that I don't cause anyone any illusion or harm, both because these women have it tough enough already and because that's generally my approach in the rest of my life. (Obviously, that approach doesn't at all keep me from speaking my piece or acting on my desires, though I'll happily wear Zelda's "wimp" badge for the purpose of delineating the sides of the discussion.)

The reality, of course, is that you can choose to spend the month with your waiting big-breasted honey, and then change courses in midstream if it doesn't go as hoped. That's one of the advantages of being a well-to-do farang, in that you have the means to basically give her enough baht so she goes away at least somewhat happy and you go butterfly, especially since it's a big country with a variety of places to go for available women. You could also simply go a week early, butterfly around, and then spend three weeks with her.

But then, I'm a have your candy and eat it too kind of guy :-) so that might not work for you. As it stands, I'll just sit here and be jealous that you're going to be over there soon actually having to decide what you're going to do, and I've got to wait until fall, boo hoo.

05-19-02, 06:58
This looks like it's gonna be an improvement.

Too tired to post tonight though.

Keep up the good work "mi compadres"


Joe Zop
05-19-02, 18:34
another good set of lists, skinless. where would you classify those who work in blow-job bars like kangaroo or [CodeWord900] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900)? obviously, they mostly fit into the 3f secondary, but are they an additional one in your first category, or do they fall under one of the others?

Apac Boy
05-20-02, 07:11
ok, i'm gonna try this one more time...can't seem to be able to post on here with these lame ass computers in bangkok...that's what i get for using the 0.75baht/min ones...

anyways, skinless..
freelancers = thermae girls = beer garden girls = nana disco girls = grace coffee shop girls
they are all the same except they make their rounds at different times.

this post just ain't the same without t.u.r.o.k's fat ass in here


Joe Zop
05-20-02, 13:46
I think you're both right -- there are some girls who make the rounds (and perhaps that's another variety that should be added to Skinless' list -- rounders) between various places, some moving here or there as part of a regular circuit, some as some sort of linear progression. But there are also many for whom one specific environment or another seems to be not only the most natural and compatable.

And just give it time -- I'm sure most of the voices from the old board will migrate here, as it's that or just lurk or go elsewhere.

05-20-02, 13:49

I have been reading about your return to LOS. Kudos to you. I'd like to do the same, but the rest of us with jobs etc. find it difficult ...

Since you are there, would you mind checking on my sweetheart at her new whereabouts ?

She tells me she works now at Walker, a beerbar in Sukhumvit Soi 10.

Hope you remember her. Her name is Phon.

Thanks in advance,


05-20-02, 15:13

well, I 'd like someone to check up her story (that she works there, and as a bartender). I feel that trust is good, and that checking that trust is actually well placed is even better. It can only lead to a healthy relationship (not that there is much of a relationship to nurture at this point ...).

Also, I'd like to know that she is OK. She has told me that she had to leave her bar in NEP, but that she missed the environment, her friends there etc. I figured that if someone contacted her in person on my behalf, she might feel better.

In fact I am interested in that particular girl. She gave me a wonderful GFE. I think that her e-mails are a fascinating window into the mind and thoughts of a NEP bargirl. I would like to substanciate that by having someone get there in person. And since I know Tapioca ... If he goes there , finds her and says hello, that'll be plenty already.

Incidentally, she never ever mentioned money in her e-mails.

If I may give my 2 cents on your dilemma, I would suggest you stick to a girl you know and makes you happy. It gets better with time. If you get tired of her (or if she does get tired of you), it will still be time to switch to fff mode.

And I did not worry about you!

Apac Boy
05-21-02, 06:40
they are almost the same group...you would think the Grace coffee shop girls are a bit chunkier cause they service the arabs and the dark chocolates there, but that is not the case any more. a lot of whities hit the coffee shop cause there isn't anything else open so a lot of the nana girls migrate over after 2am. yesterday, i overheard a fat, ugly **** quote this black guy 2,500BHT for ST! What was funny was that the black guy seemed more interested after that.

soi 10 eh? there are a lot of beer bars there...i'll see if i can find a bar named walker...

i walked by soi 33 yesterday, didn't have the balls to walk in cause the artist bars there look so....EXPENSIVE. so i just picked up a freelancer at nana disco for 1,000BHT ST. but i think i'm going to just walk into one today and see what the fuss is all about.

Apac Boy
05-22-02, 06:03
this is kind of funny...i went to Walker bar yesterday and then, i realized that i was actually there about 7 days ago. there was this one girl who stopped me and kept saying "i know u, i know u"...i brushed her off at first cause i thought she was just trying to get my business. anyways, she said that i was with my 2 farrang friends...then i realized that she was talking about u and traveler.

so i asked the mamasan where she was cause i didn't see her, mamasan said she took a week long holiday and will be back next week.

oh, mamasan calls her Pui, not Pon...


05-25-02, 07:57
Ok, boys you all seem like good chaps but enough about this Zelda. He is mentioned everywhere and just seems like a misearble old fuck!

Tapioca - always good postings and seems to have the right attitude and it going on.

Skinless - loved your ranking, but you got to tell me where the big breasted honeys are in BKK? I picked one up but all the Swedish guys at Nana made fun of me saying that of all the chicks in LOS I was able to find the only fat one (2nd floor or NEP at the American rocker type of bar). In your opinion freelancer at Biergarten girl or Nana Disco ??

I think some of the other guys from the old forum are a little bit freaked that they have to register to post messages, hence low activity (just a hunch though). Happy hunting

Ting Tong
05-25-02, 08:18
Originally posted by Zelda
Zelda aka *****, Dinosaur Hunter

is a ***** (Truck)
who is hunter of dinosaur (for what - to get ass fucked)

did I understand correctly Zelda ????

05-25-02, 14:58
great info in here. keep it coming.

Apac Boy
05-25-02, 15:35
i got a response from the ho, check ur email..i forwarded the email to u...

oh, when i get back, i'll post these emails on here for u guys...something to learn in case u become him when u get here...

might be my last message though, gonna do some drugs tonight in LOS...

choke dee!!!

zhao sooh extraodinaire

Mister Pinky
05-25-02, 17:28
I am relatively new to the board. Can't find these abbreviations on the chart:
HC, ****.
Mr. Pinky


You won´t find these abbreviations on the list because they are acronyms for derogatory descriptions of Thai woman. The use of these acronyms was started by a miscreant who is now banned from posting on this forum, and who´s posts I am going to remove from the old forum in a few days. Any posts in this forum that contains these acronyms will be deleted in their entirety, and anyone who insists upon using them repeatedly will find their posting privledges suspended.


Thanks for that piece of info. Sorry I didn't catch that they were derpgatpry terms from the context.

prof. genius
05-26-02, 08:39
Well, I've moved out of the room I shared with my Thai GF in BKK, since I got a job working in Isaan. I feel like it's pretty well over between us, and although she will likely make efforts to hold onto me (she calls every day, etc.) I think she knows that I am out whoring again and that it can never be the same between us.

I didn't really have tremendous delusions about her feelings for me - her a relatively poor girl from a 3rd world country and me a rich (compared to her) farang - and it wasn't even that big a deal when I found out she was writing emails to other guys. But I did think that she had some genuine feelings for me, and when I saw in those emails that she had asked another guy for money, and she had taken it when he sent it to her, I got really ambivalent about the whole relationship.

I always read here about conniving Thai *****s, but I always thought my girl was different. Yeah she sent emails to other guys, but hey, that's just something that someone in her position would have had to learn to do to protect herself, not burn her bridges. But deep down she really prefered to be with me, have a kid, never have to see any of those other guys.

Now I'm not so sure. Hard for me to accept the possibility that she's really just a cold hearted b*tch because she certainly acts like she has deep feelings for me, cries, talks about her broken heart and her life being over, etc. It's a pretty convincing act if it isn't true.

I told her I would take care of her for the forseeable future, and, you know, even though she said she misses me terribly and wants to stay with me rather than just have me send her money, she wasn't too broken hearted to negotiate with me on how much I would be sending her every month. Hmmm......

Call me a fool for still supporting her, I'm sure I will get an earful from some of the veterans, but I feel it's the right thing to do. After all I did stay with her for a year, and notwithstanding the incidents with the emails and the money, she did treat me very well during that time, took care of every need, never saw or slept with other guys (emailed, yes but never cheated - can't prove that but I believe it. She never had time for it anyway, she would practically never let me out of her sight - very jealous, always afraid I would go screw another lady).

Not really sure how long I'll support her, probably at least give her time to go to hair styling school so she can work in a salon if she wants to instead of going back to the bar. I don't think she wants to go back to the bar, but I guess I don't really know.

The thing that makes me feel the worst about the whole deal is that I think I created the expectation that I would be with her forever, and I wouldn't blame her for thinking that - at first I thought it might actually happen myself. Because of that expectation now not being met, I think it may be a lot harder for her to handle than it would be if I was with her for only a week or a month. And I think that my leaving her may have the effect of turning a relatively naive and sincere girl into the kind of hard hearted b*tch I hear described here often.

Makes me think that ultimately I really am responsible (in a general sense) for creating the problem that I blame our breakup on. That makes me feel awful.

Anyway, with mixed feelings I join the ranks of the itinerant *****hounds once again. Hopefully a bit wiser.

Sorry about the novella. Thanks for listening.

Professor Genius

prof. genius
05-26-02, 12:29

She did seem nice and I was pretty happy for a while there.

I don't expect everything to work out by only paying the bills. I was very attentive to her also, treated her at least as well as she treated me. I never cheated on her and I never lied to her. I'm willing to put the time in if I think it will be worth it. But she deceived me, and it didn't feel right - I had to wonder what other kind of deception might be going on, both now and in the future.

As far as taking her back and laying down the law, it would be difficult to do that because she will not admit to having taken the money from this guy even now. Her story is that her friend Noy, (who knows her email address and her password), wrote to her old customer, pretended to be her, asked for money, and then took the money when the guys friend brought it to town. All without her knowing about it or her old customer suspecting anything. Also, the story goes, Noy is the one who was writing to the same customer for months before and after this incident, again, pretending to be my girl.

Is it possible that her story is true? Ya I guess so. But it's getting awfully hard to swallow. Everyone has flaws, but deception is one of those flaws that are a bit too big to work around. It changed the way I felt about her, so much so that I felt it was time to leave.

Both you and Zelda say I should stop paying her. I agree that keeping a connection if there's no future is not the best thing, but I don't like the idea of just cutting her off. In spite of the way my feelings have changed I still feel she deserves better than that.

prof. genius

05-26-02, 19:26
When playing with chicks there's only one winning strategy: F, F & F.

And the last 'F' is as important as the previous 2 ones in order to win the game.

05-26-02, 23:38
To Jackson (Administrator)

Topic: *****

I just wanna say that I agree with you to 100%.

He brought a lot of hate between people from different countries and I think this was not your goal in this forum. We are all a big family where the nationality is not so important. Some people still have not understand it that your forum is a information board .

A man like ***** is a selfish. A selfish do not take care about human beings. It is really a pitty that a man like ***** lives in Thailand. It is so a fantastic country and the girls are marvelous. They bring a lot of light in our life which we have to respect it and take care about it although we have to pay money for it.

Of course it is a game and a kind of business but it brings for both side in many cases a lot of fun and this is the main thing when I and the most fellows here in this forum come to Thailand.

For all newcomers! Start learning the rules in Thailand and understand the Thais mentality.

If you understand it then I can gurantee it that all your sex dreams come true and you will have a great time here for both sites. And also you will find out that your investment was the right descison without giving a blame to someone....etc.

Yep Jackson! It was really time to take action against ***** or you would loose a fan.

As well I want to say: " Thank you for all your efforts here on this
forum. It was a fantastic idea to open a forum like this. And I know you spend a lot of time in your free time and we user should support you so that this forum will be a benefit for all in the world. We can make a contribution (smile) to the "Globalization" without having prejudice to someone.

Hopefully you will be always in good health so that this forum will never die.

Friendly regards from Germany

Take care!


I appreciate your comments. Thank You.

05-27-02, 02:03
My two cents about Zelda:

If you have a party and you have invited a lot of people but there is that one person who shows up that gets a little too drunk or has an annoying personality and gets rude with people, would you ask him to leave?

Joe Zop
05-27-02, 03:23
Wow -- I go away for a couple of days and miss all the fireworks!

Jackson, it's your board and I absolutely respect your right to do as you seem fit. I do tend to agree with Skinless that dialogue and reason should manage to triumph in such a scenario, but I understand as well that you've been extremely patient in this situation -- you'd think the previous banning of the Tur*k name would have gotten the point across, as well as your switch to the new forum and the reasons for that. I find the whole Zelda scenario unfortunate, because there are a lot of times his posts were very well-reasoned and articulate, but then at other times it was as if he was just cutting and pasting the same thing over and over, and, particularly of late. The core portion of his argument I had no particular quarrel with -- that one should be careful about becoming personally involved with Thai women who are in the sex trade -- as that's one approach, and the perspective is not unique to him, though not mine. But I agree that he brought a ton of hostility to the table as well, and I found his degree of repetition, misogny and basic contempt for the people of the country problematic.

Yes, such a poster can be a marvelous stimulant, as people buzz around him like airplanes around Kong, but he can also intimidate people from participating for fear of being attacked. It's a double-edged sword, and one that varies based on the community involved. I've had no particular problem with him, but I'm well aware I've got a hide that's been well thickened by many years online.

I've moderated several boards over the years, and there are varying levels of approaches that can be taken, ranging from cautioning privately or publicly to completely banning, and it frankly usually depends on both the person and the moderator which approach you decide will work. And in the end it's an art rather than a science.

Your general light touch is appreciated, as is all your tremendous work in making this forum the wonderful resource it is.

Hi Joe_zop,

Thanks you for your comments. FYI, it was the repetive nature of Zelda's messages that finally forced me to take action. Had the man simply posted his opinions once or even twice, and then followed up with direct responses to other posters, I would not have taken this action even though I completely disagree with his perspective on how to treat Thai women. However, with the continious re-posting of the same basic message, I began to suspect that his true motivation was disinformation, which I include in the definition of spam. Nevertheless, I waited until he posted under the new forum software to observe if the nature of his message might change, which of course it didn't. At this point I felt that I was reduced to one option.



Joe Zop
05-27-02, 03:50

I'm one who sees no problem, in this particular scenario, with you deciding to support her for a period of time. It's not something I generally think is a good idea, but yours is a somewhat different scenario than most that come through this forum. It's not all that unusual, when one has lived with someone for a year with both of you expecting it could be a great deal longer, that one would want to make sure their former partner was ok. That seems to me human and commendable, though I'd be careful, as there are risks doing that in the West, let alone when filtered through a different cultural lens.

At the same time, I don't know that she can really understand that she's done wrong, as she was basically pursuing security in whatever fashion she could, and I think it's close to impossible that she'd ever admit to having taken the money, even if she did. I tend to agree with skinless that to her this would be a very minor infraction, if it truly was seen as one at all. After all, your emotional and monetary support is nice, but you can always leave exactly as you have, and she is concerned about how she is going to be taken care of not only now but in the future.

I don't think deception is all that uncommon in most relationships, as everyone likes/needs some private life; I think the issue is at what level it affects your overall sense of trust, and it's clear that yours is solidly damaged here. Worry about future deception means that trust has vanished, and trust is at the core of any relationship that's going to last (unless its lack is salved by a truly tremendous amount of money and/or lust.) So I understand as well why you feel you need to end the relationship.

I'd be very clear about exactly how long the support is going to last, and its parameters, and I'd also make clear that this is not an entitlement, but something you've decided to do because you cared for her and want her to be well, and that you reserve the right, based on her behavior, to change your mind about this support at any point. In some ways that's not very nice, in that you're holding the money over her head and making explicit that you don't have to and may not give it, but at the same time, you're making clear that there's an end point, and that she needs to plan accordingly.

And, since I'm the one of the resident believers in multilayered experience, let me suggest that she may well both have sent the email, taken the money, hedged her bets, and also absolutely have deep feelings for you, mean it when she talks about her broken heart and her life being over, etc., and that for her there is no contradiction in these things.

Joe Zop
05-27-02, 04:08

You know that I've no problem with your warning per se, only your approach in conveying it and your degree of tolerance for people with different perspectives. I think it's wise to report the "wrong and dangerous," but one must also give people to option to take that information and interpret it as they see fit. The fact that I'm informed that you feel that X is a bad part of town doesn't mean I may not still want to go there. My degree of culpability is different, in that I've been righteously warned, than if I was simply unaware, but in the end it's still my right to make the decision.

Bottom line -- not everyone gets duped. Not everyone uses your definition of what "duped" is. Not everyone agrees that there's nothing else we have in common (to me, being human means that there's a lot in common by definition) or that such lack of commonality is a problem as opposed to an opportunity.

Best of luck to you, and I've enjoyed the banter.

Deep File
05-27-02, 06:10
I hesitate to bust in on what looks like a private discussion about banning Zelda and straightening out Genius' head.... I'm hoping this new forum is still about getting laid :) ??

Anyone know what gives with the barber shops? Baron was busted last week and their "operating permit" was suspended for 15 days... apparently some barber joint on Ramkamhaeng was the subject of a documentary on Thai TV where they showed some pretty choice footage of student-age ladies sitting around waiting for "haircut" customers... so the place has been closed. The result is that the cops need to look active for a while and several of the shops are now in cautious mode... with the girls sitting upstairs or out of sight.

Thaidude... you see the thing on TV? Any of you regulars heard anything??

Apac Boy
05-27-02, 10:49
from now on, the dreaded T*P* is now TG = Thai Girl....

ok...now...Genius should NOT be sending any money. You're going to stop sending money sooner or later...might as well just don't do it and let her find a way to support herself again. Many more TG's in Issan who'll prob treat you better, they'll make sure you forget her fast...

Deep File, post Barons stuff in the Bangkok section...


05-27-02, 12:34
I have read this forum with great interest and am glad to see some action has been taken against Zelda. At the end of the day we are all human and should be treated with respect.

Great decision...

Joe Zop
05-27-02, 16:00
it's always been my understanding that bar girls get a salary (which includes various quotas like hustling x number of drinks and managing y number of bar fines, etc.) so from a pure financial security level that would seem like the preferable option. (less of a salary than being at a go-go, but still something regular.) of course, there's also a degree of communal support available as well as opposed to simply being out on your own, and a place to be. naturally, your girl with her assets may do better as a freelancer, but i think some of that also depends on her emotional makeup, as that puts a lot more on her. reward might be higher, but so is risk. certainly there are a ton of other bars she could no doubt choose, if she's so inclined.

i presume, btw, that if you're going back to spend time with her, a first stop will be a clinic if only so she can be protected from the bad viruses in your system :-)

as far as career options, that's a tough one. i've got to say that one thing i never saw in thailand, which surprised me, were the women you find in the us who hustle outfits to other women in the trade. if you go into dance clubs here, you will often find ex-dancers coming by with racks of clothes to sell to other girls who are working. the clients get to try them on, model them in front of their peers, and get instant gratification by wearing them, so it's a good sales scenario. i've talked with some, and they say it can be quite a good living, as the outfits are certainly not cheaply priced. some simply acted as salespeople, but others actually made the stuff and did custom orders. never saw anything like that in thailand, but it might be i simply wasn't there at the right time.

do you have any sense of what she actually likes to do (other than shopping, which is a given, and partially why i thought of the above)? if education is an issue (and she no doubt still has some education) then perhaps rather than education she should think in terms of training. i'd bet, for example, that with her looks she'd be very successful helping farangs hemorrhage money at some of the gem emporiums, as that was certainly the case among those i watched there, especially guys trying to simultaneously impress a pretty girl while pacifying their wives with baubles at the same time...

Joe Zop
05-27-02, 23:41
Yeah, I know that the gem thing isn't really possible, and I was just sorta using it as an example as opposed to any real suggestion. But sales clerks in general are not all middle class, and it's one of the traditional "moving up" avenues regardless of country, so it's a realm of possibility. Clearly, if you're there obviously being a working girl you're going to have little chance. People hustling things is something that you see everywhere in the third world, not just in Thailand, and you're right that you've got to have the temperment. I know that probably half of the sex workers I met in Kenya had another business on the side, partly because they wanted out, but partly because the laws of supply and demand heavily favored the buyers.

The official unemployment rate in Thailand is fairly low, so you'd think there would have to be some sort of options, though I've no idea how accurate that is or how it's measured there, and this area's outside of my realm. (Something to learn about next trip, I guess.) I know there are various groups there who work with women trying to make the transition, but I don't know much about them. One real problem, as you allude, is that she's simply not going to make anywhere near the same money in a traditional job, and that's a tough thing to take or adjust to, if you can. I don't know that the education aspect necessarily has all that much to do with the easy come/easy go attitude -- the lifestyle also encourages it, as does her age. Her family sounds just far too typical of many in lots of countries who see their daughters as good for raising money this way and no other -- but at the same time, it's rather hard to be all that critical and not seem rather two-faced, given the subject of this board.

Seems odd that she'd let the clap get in the way of her job -- you're certainly right that it's something that could get her the heave, if there were complaints, but it seems like she'd just get cured and come back with proof. And if you're getting bar-fined right and left, well, that more than makes up for hustling drinks.

05-29-02, 10:45
Hello guys....

Here is an example of a letter from a Thai girl... In the next email from her, she was requesting money.... Yes, I believe we are seen as easy cash....


The first I want to say to you.I miss you so much and everytime.I want to live near you.I think of when we go to Samui and Pattaya.When you drive motocycle and I sit behind you. I kiss to your neck and your back.You do "I crazy you".I think of when I go to America soon.I hope I can go to America.If I have chance.I want to live with you in America.I think it is happy for me so much.Do you know? Every word it go from my heart and my mind.I think it really.I hope you are belive me.I will honest with you.I don't do something for you sad.Please take care of yourself.I worry about you so much.

Love and miss you always xxx

Sweet girl? When I said no to her money request, I never heard from her again... The Thai girls I have met have all been big time liars.... proceed at your own risk...

05-29-02, 21:23

You are so forgiven with Thai girls...good attitude to have... I call them big time liars because some of those lies are big, as big and deceiving as they can get. I agree with you that these girls are trying to make a living and lying comes with the job. Sometimes the lies are so fucking obvious that makes me wonder if these girls think we "farangs" are stupid or something. Most of the time I find their lies comical because they are just obsviously lying and they trip and contradict themselves easily when questioned or confronted. Some of the lies are even entertaining, with a story and all....

We can only blame ourselves when lied to, after all we are dealing with hookers which their main and only goal is to make money out of farangs. The only thing that bugs about these lying creatures is that when you lie to them (a white little lie) they act as if you committed a crime against them.... They are so pro....They got farangs by the balls.

05-30-02, 11:20
Really, deep down you all know they are compulsive liars. They are damn cute and more often than not great shags, even usually good company BUT THEY LIE.
They would not know the truth if it jumped up and hit them in the face. I have stopped telling my friends in Hong Kong that they are one in a cast of many who are sending money to these girls. But just imagine if the tables were turned and we could spend all day getting up late, sending a few emails, play pool drink a few beers have sex four or five times a day and make more money than a Doctor.
Once they are in they can not and will not get out. Remember all of you that the lie is the biggest lie in Thai life.
These girls are geat fun to shag, hang out with for a day or two (if you have to) but dont re-mortgage your house!

Joe Zop
05-30-02, 12:16
Shoot, why wouldn't they lie? I would, if I was in their position. The fact that they are renting their bodies out to tourists doesn't obligate them to rent out their souls, the rest of their lives, or do anything other than try to get you to spend/send more money. Part of the pleasure (beyond the obvious physical side of things) can be the process of getting beyond the simple transaction, but that doesn't change the general context -- you are going to go away, so in the end you're not some kind of solid solution for her. I agree that people come over tremendously green and foolish, but that's their mistake, not some kind of inherent flaw in TGs. The fact that people expect that someone they've picked out in a few minutes based largely on surface physical considerations is going to feel obligated to them in any way beyond doing what was initially agreed upon is amazing.

Corporations will lie to me and tell me that they actually care about my happiness, and not just my money, so why should I expect a TG, who is just trying to make a basic living and doesn't even have a marketing department to help her make up really imaginative lies, to do any less?

05-30-02, 13:16

Your big titty friend got you very busy thinking and planning... she must be very good....

I realize the TG has to survive by whatever means necessary. I think it gets very amuzing when they try to play to your emotions and game you for more cash. They know they have the potential to squize a little more money (or a lot) by pretenting to be your girlfriend or showing fake affection but this is what many guys are looking for anyway. So, it is fair game and the lying comes with it. I think that some of these girls are more than willing to rent their souls for extra cash and why not. I also find that some girls are legitimately looking fora potential boyfriend to get them out of the scene but the odds are against them to make it happen...

Skin, hope you have a gooood time with your big titty friend.

05-31-02, 04:20
Yes the girls are cute and great in horizontal positions (and some vertical) and sure they have a hard life, are uneducated, have to shag some sweaty, big nosed Ferangs. But they all lie all the time and as long as you all accept this you will all have a fantastic time in this great country.

The Clap - Hmmm God knows how we all dont get it.

Wayne K.

Apac Boy
06-01-02, 07:29
what about this:
1) don't pay her 30,000BHT for the month..I'm sure 15,000-20,000BHT is plenty for the month.

2) if she's with you, there is no way you can bring a different girl back to the room with you. so why not go to places like the soapies or Baron's...or even Eden. Take a couple of hours a day by urself...say you have to go meet a friend for a drink, give her 2-3,000BHT to go shopping in Siam or MBK..then go hit the soapies..


06-01-02, 20:35

Good post/insight.


How about trying her for a week or so, then cutting her loose and "butterflying" ? If you are not interested in a long term (I hope you're not) relationship, why waste a whole month with one girl ?

By the way...what happened to the water buffalo ?

To all: Of course they all lie. Can we move on ?

06-01-02, 23:22

How about keeping the big titty girl for 2 or 3 days a week and the other days play the field. You will be tempet to fuck other girls because there is so much to choose from. What I have done in the past with the GFE is to break up for a couple of days and make-up for another couple of days and so on... In the end, they will know you were playing around but what matter the most to them is the $$$$.... Doing this also keeps it interesting and she will fuck you crazy as she will feel a little jealous...

Does your wife know you are going to Thailand to see the big titty girl? If yes, ask your wife for advice....

06-01-02, 23:36
I am going to appeal to you vets. Its my first trip to Bangkok
and I don't want to fuck up the ***** economy. I want to pick up one or two girls for an all nighter as well as ST action. Is 3000 baht too much or too little? I know the vets don't want tourists overspending but when you are used to U.S. or Euro prices, you are likely to think that you are getting the deal of a lifetime in the LOS. Where is a good place to visit as a 1st time newbie? Most of my experience has been in Amsterdam\Europe. I am American and I want to really enjoy myself and maintain a low profile.

I am wide open to advice and suggestions.


06-02-02, 02:20

You have a great sense of humor.... Very funny...

If you can't figure out if you will be wasting time and money with the big titty girl then you could toss a coin and stick to results....

Or, you could also cancell your trip to Thailand.

Or, plan a trip elsewhere where you will not have this terrible dilema but I'm sure you would create a new one to keep yourself busy.

Or, ask miss titty if she can allow you 3 days a week to recover from her charms so that you could seek recovery shelter from other girls. This would avoid any hard break-ups and complications with miss titty...

Or, go against your nature and fuck as many girls as you can and tell miss titty that you have lost your mind and can't see her...

Good luck. You will need it.

Joe Zop
06-02-02, 05:28
Interesting thread, Skinless, about what you should pay. Especially since you've made clear in the past that the money itself is pretty irrelevant, as you've got enough of it. So the real question here can be looked at from one of two directions -- first, what amount you should be giving in order to ensure the kind of experience you want, and second, how much is too much or too little?

Given that what *you* specifically want, as opposed to what lots of folks here are after, is a tragically hopeless pseudo-romantic relationship filled with wonderful doom that you can call off at any time (and forgive me if I'm mistating it, but I think that's basically it) as opposed to simply a boink-fest that measures its success either numerically or by what various orifices are made available and in what way, I will manage to disagree with most here and say that I think you need to pay a slightly premium rate for a couple of reasons.

1. Being a cheap charlie will not help you maintain the role of possible savior either for you or for her. More an issue for you and for the role you want to play.

2. I doubt she's able to keep up with the multilayered emotional game you're playing (the attraction to the tragic and hopeless is probably lost on her) and so you're actually putting her at greater emotional risk than are most clients who simply say they care and will take care of her, then boink and run. She deserves good compensation for being the mermaid who helps save the drowning man, especially when the man can actually swim.

As far as price, you're right that she can undoubtedly get 1000-1500 baht per day, but by offering a guaranteed income you reduce her work and risk and so can reasonably expect a package price. I think this is all rather irrelevant, to be honest -- whatever you pay her she's going to work you for more, and you're going to give her whatever you feel like giving her, as the different to you of 10,000 baht or whatever is insignificant and absolutely secondary to the quality of the soap opera experience.

And I think you're right on butterflying -- either define yourself as a butterfly (the 3f approach) or don't, but mixing them is asking for trouble. You don't really want a repeat of the Thermae scene, do you?

Joe Zop
06-03-02, 05:51
Freeler -- well, yes, I've had a few of those, but not recently :-) Lots of them when I was younger and unable to be properly intentional about the whole thing. Mostly I was just trying to capture how Skinless has described the whole thing; it was certainly not said perjoratively. Skinless, I there's no doubt your intentions are not at all bad -- from what I've read of your posts over the months you're a guy who knows what he's doing and isn't out to mess over anyone, quite the opposite in fact; just indulge in a bit of relationship fantasy, and the self-fulfilling failure prophecy is one aspect of that (probably also one that keeps it a safe as opposed to a compelling life-f*cking experience such as our dear departed friend Zelda railed against, though that's probably too much shaky analysis.) Self-knowledge may be hell, but every once in a while it can also be an interesting scab to poke at.

I wish you the best of luck, am jealous for your shortly-upcoming trip since I've got to wait a while yet for mine, and I'll look forward to hearing how it all comes out.

And I agree with you on the butterfly aspect, Freeler, but, hey, it's their country, culture, and rules, and you can't fight the wind. I've seen just as many women get in fight in dance bars in the USA over someone "stealing" someone else's regular customer. Fortunately in this country, we guys are left more or less blameless in the scenario, being the hormonally driven weaklings we are...

Joe Zop
06-04-02, 14:41
Sorry you had a bum deal, Skinless, but I'm sure you really know that this comes up regardless of nationality as well -- sex workers who try to get the money and then hustle their way out doing less than was agreed to are one of the unfortunately cross-cultural and non-geographic downsides to punting. I wonder sometimes if it's even a money thing at all, and perhaps it's just about power -- feeling they somehow maintain more in the equation if they get more money for less, even if they know there will be an argument, possible loss of income, and no repeat business. I think it's even less about money than it is about attitude, as it's the reverse dark side -- customers are always there, so [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) on all of them and get as much as you can for as little. TGs in the business may have no sense of money or a deal, but we could say that about a lot of nationalities and places. This type is, unfortunately, universal.

It's experiences like yours that make you remember, though, why the real GFE can be so much better than the business transaction of the 3Fs approach. (Of course, it takes someone else to play along as well, which was clearly galaxies away from your encounter.) If this was your first such experience, which I strongly doubt, then you're vastly overdue and I want to know your secret; if not, just put it into the category of a restaraunt you'll not revisit, and find nourishment elsewhere. Just post the info in the Tokyo section (if you haven't already) to warn others, and keep your other honey in mind as a contrast that's just been brought further into focus.

Dick Johnson
06-04-02, 18:11
Thai girls problems:

Why so many of them smoke? It is a turn off and conterproductive for a long term relationship. Mess up their teeth in a few years, skin, make them old a little faster. Bottom line, less income.

K, cocaine, you name it.

Toxic friends
Good friends who are actually selfish individuals who pretends to think for their friend's best interest. But actually are parasites. Often they are less attractive then your Thai girlfriend. They will pretend to be her best friend and your best friend but at some point will stab you in the back to prevent you from taking her away. Or they will give her faulty, cynical advice that will turn you off. In the end it will prevent her from some good times and good relationships, not to mention her being waltzed away.

-by Dick J

06-04-02, 20:36

Go ahead...vent. We're here for you.

I'm actually surprized to hear that you got anything for that price in Tokyo. I guess the stories about the expense are exaggerated. ? I didn't even look around while I was in Japan, just figured I couldn't afford it. Plus I was being well "taken care of". Jeez there was some great "eye candy" in Kyoto !!! School girls with REALLY high hem lines. Had a good time just fantasizing !

Have a good trip to LOS. I will be there in Nov/Dec. I'm gonna give Malaysia Air a try with their "Asia Access Pass". Probably hitting BKK, Phn Pnn, MNL, and Rangoon. 6 weeks or so.

To you and Joe,

I enjoy reading your posts. It's nice seeing guys use English as well as the two of you do. I'm just a product of public high school.

Joe Zop
06-05-02, 06:11
dick j. -- good list. why does anyone smoke? same issues, of course, but americans are the ones all worried about smoking, and it still doesn't stop anyone. i'm completely a non-smoker, and find the smell and taste a negative, but it's a lost cause in bar girls everywhere, at home and abroad. and your point on friends, toxic and otherwise, could be a whole long discussion, as it's definitely a difficult part of the navigation and part of what makes for stormy seas. i think part of the whole scene, if you're doing more than a day or three, can be as much romancing the friends as the primary female of interest, if only to protect and short-circuit that trashing process. of course, someone who's got acid as opposed to blood in their veins is just a disaster, as there's no way you're ever going to get anywhere convincing your tg that her friend's perspective is whacked. i think this would make a very interesting thread for discussion.

freeler, your example brings out one of the other important aspects, which is that of status and some kind of peer pecking order. having all kinds of "things" such as gaudy bangles of gold, multiple cell phones, lots of farangs sending money, etc., falls into the same general category as saying you got 3000 baht for short-time, or you managed to get in and out in fifteen minutes -- it's a validation of your desireability and place at the top of the heap. i think people do that in all kinds of work, kind of like shop talk and peer boasting, and given this line of work issues of both control and status are critical so it's not surprising. it's not as though these tgs are going to find status in many other ways (which goes back to the whole butterflying thing as well, i think.)

what i find endearing are times when the opposite happens, which i've seen several times and participated in a couple -- girls seriously looking out for one another and teaching others the ropes, not in a negative way but with good mentoring intent. i've had it happen twice that bar girls with whom i spent time and bought drinks but didn't barfine brought over newcomers and acted as mediators and translators, basically as brokers "selling" the newcomers to me. that can be intriguing and strange. on one occasion the friend (who went so far as to get confirmation from others in the bar) went to great lengths to explain that this girl had never been with a farang before, was nervous, and should only go short-time. (strange sort of turn-on, and it was clearly true or else they deserve great congratulations for a very imaginative and well-executed ploy that garnered them no additional premium for their efforts. in fact, the first encounter was presented as a freebie.) the strangest part was this -- the friend followed us back to my place, stayed outside while we went at it, and then escorted us both back to the bar. there was then a weird little impromptu party where my girl was the blushing object of what i can only think of as a "deflowered by farang" celebration, as, peripherally, was i, especially when i made a clear point of discretely but obviously tipping my recent partner and thanking her. the girl i went with was basically the only one barfined that night, except for one of the katooeys who hung there, and there was great interest over the next several days in our "relationship"; enough to make the whole thing far more interesting and intriguing to be part of than was the sex or feeble attempts at communication.

but of course the toxic friend is all too often the usual scenario :-)

thanks, firedick, for the compliment, though i've never noticed you being less than a clear and able communicator in your posts. i must say i'm also always amazed at the quality of conversation on this board, especially from those for whom english is clearly not the first language.

and, finally, ouch, skinless, on the viagra. if nothing else, that's definitely an area where thailand has other places beat -- if you get the date from hell, which happens, it pretty much only takes a walk outside to find a replacement who can help, um, soften you up. not so easy in tokyo, from what i've read.

Byeon Kwang Sae
06-06-02, 04:01
Since you guys seem to know the hearts and minds of Thai girls so well, perhaps you can give me advice on where to find a really pretty Thai girl for my girlfriend’s bi-fantasy. I am an American guy, my girl is Korean. My girlfriend is quite a lady and we have a great sex life. We have hired girls before for 3-ways, but not in Thailand. We will be there in BKK in about one week, and we would like to meet a seriously upscale Thai escort-type that is young, beautiful, very clean, and hopefully big-breasted. (Money is no problem, I know that I will pay way “over-market” for what we seek) The Thai lady must be open-minded and bi-friendly. We would want the girl for a few hours one night, in our hotel. Any suggestions on where to look, or whom to call? Thanks.

Byeon Kwang Sae


Apac Boy
06-07-02, 06:57
and all it took brilliant zelda was about 2 weeks to come up with his new handle...


let's go LAKERS!!!!!
Lakers in 5!

06-07-02, 08:19
On the smoking thing...
To those of you to whom it matters, I count myself in that group, smoking seems to be becoming less popular with the bar girls in Angeles City. A phase ? The economy ? Both ? Perhaps. Don't get me wrong, it's still the rule, but you can find a few that don't.


Living in L.A. I'm torn. I would love to see a quick win, especially after that boring display called game 1, but I'm leaning toward wishing for a series like the one we just finished. Less the crying and bitching by the Sacramento coaches, players and fans.

Sorry guys...not the forum for this. The "S" in WSG is not sports !

That "adleZ" post does have a "Zelda" feel to it, doesn't it ?

B.K. Sae,

Wish I could help. But "upscale" is not my specialty.


06-07-02, 20:54

You are the pitiful one. How dare you judge the rest of us for doing what we want to do ! Anyone who does not agree with your way of doing things should take up another hobby ? I don't think the world could use so many flower arrangers. I subscribe to the 3 F's, but if Skinless wants to play his way, that's his perogative ! He has never suggested that he wishes to "save" these girls or improve their lot in life. He has merely stated that he enjoys the game on a different level. If you can't understand that, that's your shortcoming. It is possible to *****monger without being an asshole or a naive victim. The scene in Pattaya IS a joke. Perhaps that is why you fit in so well.

Why don't you find someplace else to spread your worthless crap.


06-07-02, 23:59

Where'd the jerks posts go ?

Jackson, are you protecting us ?

I was just getting warmed up ! :)

06-08-02, 20:40
Ok guys....most of you seem to be veterans of BKK and
your exchanges make it seem like a soap opera sometimes. I would respect your advice. I am American and want to make
my first trip to BKK. I think that I could probably only get
about 10 days /nights there. Can anyone give me a short
list on places that I should focus on given my short time
there. Yes ...this is a sexual tour but I am used to Amsterdam
and Germany.


06-08-02, 20:47
I forgot to say one thing. I see people on this board criticizing others for their decisions. I cannot understand how one person thinks that because another persons decision does not match their own...then it is wrong. Everyones perspective and needs are different. If you don't agree, then just say "good luck" and move on or better yet...say nothing.

Sorry..thats my 5 seconds on the soapbox.

Joe Zop
06-09-02, 18:37
November -- there's a ton of places in BKK, and I suggest you take a look at the archives in the Bangkok section, as there's lots of discussion about the particulars of various places there. Most folks tend to stay in the Sukhumvit Road area, as that's where the majority of the action is located (Patpong being the other.) You might also want to check out http://www.**************.com/info/first_time_in_bangkok.shtml which is a nice first-timer's guide. If you're used to Amsterdam and Germany you'll find the action in BKK to be even more in-your-face and widespread. Relax and have fun, which it's a simple thing to do, no matter how you define fun -- which is a fact that tends to get buried sometimes in the various snipings here and there.

adleZ -- somehow your "helpfulness" seems a bit less than genuine, given that you have followed Skinless' posts for quite some time and you know his situation, approach and intentions. You take a whack at his self-esteem, impugn his motives, and again classify the TG he's seeing as less than human (in this case a bowling trophy) but you're just being helpful? Your idea of helpfulness is like cutting the brake lines in cars so people will understand the dangers of driving.

If you're tired of being deleted, perhaps you should spend some time groveling to Jackson, as you clearly don't get it, and he's been pretty clear about the whys and wherefores, and it's clear in this new software that it's a pretty simple thing for him to prune your hedges.

06-10-02, 12:37
Originally posted by NOVEMBER
Ok guys....most of you seem to be veterans of BKK and
your exchanges make it seem like a soap opera sometimes. I would respect your advice. I am American and want to make
my first trip to BKK. I think that I could probably only get
about 10 days /nights there. Can anyone give me a short
list on places that I should focus on given my short time
there. Yes ...this is a sexual tour but I am used to Amsterdam
and Germany.


My recommendations

Edens - for porno movie like sex
Barons - oil massage
CP2 - Soapy
Long Gun Soi Cowboy - best looking go-go girls
The Living Room - Meeting/Pool
Soi 7 Beergarden - Freelancers (day/early night)
Thermae/ outside Nana Plaza - freelancers (late night)
Restaurants - Isarn Barn Soi 23, Banyan Soi 7

Any questions please mail me.


06-10-02, 13:47

here are my preferences:

Soapy: Poseidon
B-Course: Darling (but I have not been there in a while)
Best looking go-go girls: Carnival
Freelancers: Nana disco (but it is a hellish place, sound-wise)
Restaurants: Mango tree, off Patpong; Spice Market (at the Regent Hotel); Benjarong (at the Dusit Thani)

06-10-02, 13:53

I have never tried the oil massage at Baron's, and I cannot find a detailed report on it.

Since you recommend it, could you elaborate on the process, options, fares, talents to be recommended, etc. ?



Apac Boy
06-10-02, 18:26
don't listen to zelda and his statement about Baron's. Yes, it is overpriced. But think about it...would u rather pay 1,000BHT to some TG, then go get a 30 min. screw. Or would you pay more, have her give u a very sensual massage to get you really REALLY REALLY horny, then the screw? The release at Baron's is so much better because of all the anticipation during the oil massage. Oh, when you go, always get the 2 hours (800BHT). It cost 2,300BHT total.

I say don't let zelda get his original name back. let him keep using adelz.


06-11-02, 03:12
Hey guys...

what is the address for Baron's?


Joe Zop
06-13-02, 15:50
Skinless -- are you talking about a visa to the US or Japan? If the former, here's a link to a good short article on the subject -- www.asiatradingonline.com/visausa.htm. If the latter, my understanding is that there's recently been a stink about Thai women being imported into the sex industry of Japan, and some hard feelings about that, but I don't know enough to say anything other than that's what I've heard.

As far as her perspective on us -- not terribly surprising, given what she sees and does and where she is. It's not as though she spends a lot of time with farangs in other scenarios, is it? But that's certainly an indication of how being "in the life" can develop your perspective, the same way that friend Z's outlook and approach has been honed toward Thais by his experiences.

Whether she sees you as a way out or not (and I'm sure she has her scenarios -- who wouldn't?) she undoubtedly sees you as a reasonably known quantity who is going to make a month financially solid and simple, as she'll not need to hustle in the same usual way. Since you got along before without major hassles, why shouldn't she look forward to that? I'd actually tend to think that she doesn't necessarily see you as a potential or possible way out, but as someone she can try to get some kind of advantage out of, be it shopping, visa, $$$ or whatever, as she's clearly someone who commands your attention. Again, that's normal and natural from my take on things. So you both go into it with degrees of awareness, but you have trump, because you have the money and the ability to simply walk away.

And I'd not hold my breath about the idea that shopping won't come up again once you get there, or that the buffalo will remain strong and ornery, as those things are sure to crop up over the course of a month. Just a question of how much you're going to indulge to keep harmony, I suppose. :-)

06-13-02, 22:12

I find that what Joe_zop says makes a lot of sense.

According to my own, not insignificant, experience those girls feel understandably much more comfortable with those Farangs they already know. They know what to expect, how to keep them happy, and they feel secure enough with them.

Also, not having to worry about being bought out every night by a total stranger can only be a relief.

Actually, all that is the essence of the famed GFE.

Myself, I am planning for my second visit to Thailand this year. And I will hook up with my 20-year old sweetheart. She says I am the only one in her heart. How can one resist such sweet words?

So far there has been no shopping mentionned, no sick buffalo, etc.

Nevertheless, I am going through the very same dilemma you are facing: how to get the best of both worlds: the GFE and the Disneyland-for-adults experience at the same time ?

What I found can work -sometimes- is to tell the girl that she is the sweetest thing on earth, but that you are in Thailand also to enjoy the "special sex" that only highly-skilled providers can give, at MP's for example. It is the "it's just sex, Honey, with you it is not the same" approach.

That might buy you some time on your own, and have the hidden benefit of encouraging your girl to work harder. It is worth a shot ...

06-14-02, 06:12

Unfortunately, I have nothing of substance to add. I think Joe_zop and Seydlitz are on the money. So I'll just say "good luck".

You will treat us to some posted pictures of this fine young lady that you have forced us all to love vicariously through you, won't you ?


06-14-02, 10:49
where else than in Thailand do women sell so much for so little money ?

I agree that one needs to remain ahead of the game, and not allow oneself to be carried away into a hopeless and pretty ridiculous "relationship".

But as a holiday special, there is nothing wrong to enjoy emotional and sensual stimulation alongside strictly physical ones.

What makes Thai women outstanding is their ability to behave as much more than rented holes if one wants. Yes, they are working girls, yes they do it for the money, yes they have sex with 100's of guys every year.

Still, many are able to give you a wonderful experience. Even soapie girls, who are much more professional sex providers, can behave in a warm and passionate way when delivering the service you pay for.

What's wrong about all that? Is this paradise for men or what ?

Joe Zop
06-14-02, 16:02
Bravo, Seydlitz, that says it all -- all this stress and conflict over what most of us simply consider having died and gone to heaven. Approaching things with jai dee simply makes it all so much simpler. Yes, it doesn't mean that you have to throw your brains or heart out, but honestly, there's no shortage of heartbreak anywhere else in the world either in the man-woman scenario, so why add unnecessary stress to the process?

Skinless, I agree that many of them are heroes in the classic sense -- battling in an untenable situation, trying to shield others from harm, engaging in self-sacrifice. I have the utmost respect for people who manage to keep their hearts and souls in situations like this, and I don't at all mean in the kind of "noble savage" implication that Addled poked at with his rice paddy references, as this is true regardless of culture or situation. The ability to face your situation head-on, deal with it, and move forward is heroic, considering how few of us are generally able to do so. Yes, they're not all heroes, but if everyone is then no one is. Yes, you could get robbed or tricked. Where and when exactly is that not at least potentially the case?

Just out of curiousity -- has anyone here ever given one of those little handheld games out as a present? Given the general love of games, that might be a big hit. On the other hand, it could, of course, also act as a completely omnipresent TV remote and drive you crazy :-)

And now all we're going to ask of you is complete transcripts :-) in lieu of photos. Sounds like you're in for an extraordinary ride.

Apac Boy
06-14-02, 19:23
haha..Joe...i forgot about it until u mentioned it. What is up with TG's loving to play video games??? I bought those games on the street for the GAmeboy for 2 of the girls and I took a couple with me to the arcade and played games there too...man...they love video games!

and these girls are good too...back here I've never met any competition on any video game but damn...these girls can really play...


06-14-02, 21:18
hey guys....

Aren't you streching the meaing of "heroes" to apply to Thai hookers?

I do think they deserve respect from us but you guys sound like you are drooling with gratittude a little too much...

I have had mostly good experiences with Thai workers and they deserve respect and getting paid but I reserve the "heroe" term to be used for something important.... getting laid with a hooker is not important, really.... getting paid to get laid is not either that important...


Joe Zop
06-14-02, 22:24
Yeah, you're right, Juicespike, it's not necessarily all that important, but if I'm "drooling with gratitude" which really isn't the case, I could say the same thing about your approach to "heroes" can't I? If I'm stretching the definition in applying it, I can easily argue that you're distorting it equally by making it a bit too holy or restrictive. In the aftermath of 9/11 the term's gotten thrown around quite a bit -- cops and firemen in NYC and elsewhere are getting called that all the time now, whether or not they ended up as casualties. It's just as big a stretch to apply the term to some of them, and also just as appropriate.

From my perspective, heroes come in all sizes, both big and small, both extraordinary and everyday, and the fact that I choose to praise some small heroes of basic life in no way diminishes my respect or awe for the big ones.

06-15-02, 02:31

hmm, well, I'm not drooling over my definition on how I would use the word "heroe...." I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.... Anyway, I don't regard "heroes" holly or restrictive just going for the most proper way to apply it to... this does not mean that Thai working girls are not worthy of respect and maybe a little admiration but you won't find me calling them heroes... You mentioned 9/11 as an example of how too many people were called "heroes" and I would agree with this, but hey, we are talking about hookers here, aren't we?


Joe Zop
06-15-02, 04:07
Hey, we're all aware there's a degree of knowing hyperbole involved, and part of saying it is a degree of counterbalance to some of the negative stuff that's been tossed around here. Doesn't mean we're putting up altars or anything. I don't know how much or long you've followed this thread, and it might not be possible to reconstruct since Jackson's cleaned things up, but there's been a tremendous amount of very uncharitable things said about TG sex workers over the course of this discussion's history. I'd actually say, in fact, that "heroes" is one of Skinless' more sedate symantic flights -- let's see, there were mermaids, among others...

And to be more precise about my 9/11 reference, what I was saying is that the term hero ends up being used in odd and occasionally ironic ways, and that ranges from rather blanket uses to an insistence that only someone who ended up a corpse can be a hero. Some of the same people I know who are now referring to NYC cops as heroes, and including all of them under that banner, are folks who before the attack were excoriating them as all being criminals for the instances of brutality in which some on the force were involved.

But for what it's worth, I've personally got no problem with the concept of a hooker being a hero, any more than I do a baker, a plumber, a secretary, or whatever. A job doesn't automatically make someone a hero, or disqualify them either. Heroism, to my mind, is primarily an issue of circumstance, and reaction to that, which is where the reference here comes from. If that doesn't fit your cosmology, that's cool, but I obviously don't have to follow your definition any more than you've got to use mine.

In any event, such a usage certainly wouldn't be the first time people ended up saying truly inane or stupid things when confronted by the magnificence of available female forms, nor will it likely be the last :-) And as long as Skinless keeps teasing us with the spectre of his TG's assets and wondrousness, we're all likely to stay off kilter...

06-15-02, 07:21
stiop with all the bullshit hyperbole and start describing some recent sex acts in LOS so us mongers stuck overseas can live vicariously through your stories dammit! :)

06-15-02, 15:23

Hyperbole, rhetoric, mermaids, etc, etc, suit yourself to whatever yo want to call them... A "hero" is a person who does an extrodinary act to either save another person, his or her country, etc.... I get a little jumpy about your reference to 9/11 because I lost 2 friends in the west tower, so your reference of 9/11 to me is insensitive and absurd... but I see the context of your writing which is not important in the whole scheme of life....

moving on....


Man, you got so much good planning going on.... I will be in Thailand in 2 weeks to hook up with a woman for 3 weeks.... our little "working vacation" is still in negotiation as I would like to sample others while there without upsetting my girl... she is slowly realizing that although I like her very much I'm a bit of a butterfly but I mean no harm to her pride and income potential.... I met her last March and since she has quit the bar to explore other venues of income which if it is all true then she will be fresh, tight and very ready to be my tiger.... I call her at odd ours and she is always home with her mother.... she moved out of Bangkok to ease the temptemtation of the farangs' expendible income....

If anyone wants to hook up in Bangkok to exchange ideas and experiences starting June 26 through July 20 I'm available....


Joe Zop
06-15-02, 16:15
Juice -- if we want to talk strictly in terms of definition, (and it might be that we should technically be talking in terms of heroines, which tends to have a more neutral meaning) then I'll simply say that your definition of hero and that of the dictionary don't necessarily add up, and that there are a variety of ways the word is used. Sorry if my 9/11 reference upset you -- I lost a friend in the mess as well, and NYC is a place close to my heart as I worked for an org there for a decade and frequently visit both for business and friends, so no disrespect was meant; but you're the one who came in objecting -- we were all just blathering on. I generally just go by what Emerson said, "Each man is a hero and oracle to somebody."

I'm curious about your negotiation process with your lady -- are you actually discussing the scenarios of your mongering in terms of days or times where you can go do some butterflying? How is she taking that? I don't see where she wouldn't be concerned about both income potential and pride -- she can obviously fear you finding someone you like better, and of course the idea that she's not enough to satisfy you isn't great from a pride perspective.

I know we've discussed here before the whole situation of TGs in the trade wanting/demanding loyalty (and, of course, Skinless' nearly tragic experience at how far they're willing to go in that regard) as well as the absurdity of the demand from sex workers, but I'd like to hear some thoughts -- is this simply a "customer loyalty" thing, as in "don't shop at my competitor's store"? Is it a technique for maximizing income? Is it a way of maintaining a degree of self-worth by getting the farang into either the category of loyal albeit paying boyfriend or perhaps one of a legion of worshippers?

06-15-02, 17:09

I always play fair or at least make it look honest if I have to lie although you get the most out of Thai girls when you keep it straight.... hmm, usually Thai girls don't do the same in return....

I suspect my girl is doing what you suggested: being choosy to catch a "good" farang. She was married to a farang for 5 years then divorced him because he became an alcoholic.... she started working at go-go last December and I discover her charms in March so it seems she hasn't been bangged too much.... we have had mature and straight forward conversations (she is 29 and I'm 34) just about everything including her work in a gogo bar (interesting stories about farangs and her little ways to make extra cash without working too hard)... she plans to go to a technical school as a way to change income source although this remains to be seen... I do like her a lot bu I have never promised anything.... she appreciates my honesty and we have slowly become friends/lovers/customer/girlfriend/boyfriend with money/etc....

Judging from our conversations and her attitude she is porbably not a duck feeder type but I will not take any chances as I would not like to have to chase ducks around to reclaime my bits and hopefully have a quick expert re-attachment... my negotiations are still in progress and maybe once I see her I will not want to venture out for other action.... we shall see... there is the possibility that I will arrive a few days in advance to our getting together and sample lots of the menu available... she wants to meet me at the airport and be the first Thai woman to kiss me... now this is kinda sweet... I have not given her my exact date of arrival and she wants me to surprise her although she wants to know when exactly I will arriving... hmmm....

She has a very good relationship with her mother and I have talked to her mother on the phone but did not understand one bit of what she was saying other than "please come to our home to visit...." I can smell the planning going over there and maybe I will have to set some guidelines if I were to visit.... yes, there might be a big party in the planning which I would probably have to buy all the booze and food.... Farang welcome party Thai style...

I have been thinking about opening a gogo bar called "BUTTERFLIES A G0-GO" where my girl could be the manager and I could train the girls to accept men and their lust for variety as a way of doing business.... not a bad concept but maybe no girls would show up for work though...

Joe.... will respond to your posting later.... have to go now....


06-15-02, 19:57
just my two cents... but my experience with working girls is that they don't quit the life unless they get rescued out of it (and even then sometimes go back) I haven't done rescues myself... but sometimes sugar daddies here will set up clothing shops, booths, small restaurants, etc for their sugar babies. well, something or the other usually gets in the way and the same old story gets played out and the girl ends up back wherever she was in the first place.

it's super rare for them to willingly leave the life.

um... imagine if you're a medium time drug dealer and a nice girl comes along and wants you to quit and go work at McDonald's. She says 'it's a good living... you can make up to $200 a week, baby! and it's an honest living and much healthier and safer.'

many to most of these girls accept their status in life (the way many Asians do)... if they are at the bottom of the food chain, they accept it. if they are at the top, they accept it. working girls are at least in the middle of the underworld pyramid. if they wanted to come into the "day time" life.... they know they will invariably be at the bottom. even if they are rescued by a falang.... they know in their heart that they still will be viewed by most as bottom feeders.


Originally posted by juicespike


had mature and straight forward conversations (she is 29 and I'm 34) just about everything including her work in a gogo bar (interesting stories about farangs and her little ways to make extra cash without working too hard)... she plans to go to a technical school as a way to change income source although this remains to be seen... I do like her a lot bu I have never promised anything.... she appreciates my honesty and we have slowly

06-15-02, 20:31

very true.... you are correct... tough biz to quit even if the girl doesn't like doing it....


06-15-02, 20:58

it seems that quite a few of the regulars in this forum will be in LOS in the not too distant future.

Myself I should be in BKK on July 16th, flying back home on August 10.

Maybe we could arrange a WSG Special Get Together in Bangkok. We could even intoduce our respective sweethearts to each other. They might have interesting war stories to swap.

Joe Zop
06-16-02, 00:55
Very nice, Freeler, I particularly like this quote, "Thai guy will be so proud if he is the first guy of his girl, but Thai woman will be happy if only she can be the last girl of her boyfriend." That says a lot about the whole butterfly thing in some ways, (though I suspect you could leave out the Thai aspect and make a male-female generalization as well.) I also find her comment, "For Thai woman, marriage and sex are the same thing" very apropos and enlightening.

Apac Boy
06-18-02, 06:33
i thought we can't use thai rice paddy ho anymore in our posts.

zelda, u big fucking idiot...just don't use it and u won't get banned again.


06-19-02, 03:50
Jesus you guys are prolithic ! (sp ?)

I get busy for a few days away from the board and I need an hour to catch up ! Ahhhhh.... but there is always one constant, one unending truth. Zelda still doesn't get it.

Skinless, don't be selfish ! OK...if not the big titted one, how about something suitable for National Geographic !? Water buffalo ?


Dick Johnson
06-19-02, 09:49
Dick J was the one who got Jackson's attention to create a new section.

Alright, on another note.

How to quit smoking.
Them sweet Thai girl turns into a smoker in your apartment after a couple of days and expect a long term relationship? No way jose says Dick. I show you the door and elevator.

To quit smoking smoke one cigarette less a day. So if a chick smokes 20 a day, smoke 19 the next and 18 the one after. As you go down to 5 cigs a day give yourself 2 days per cigs reduction.

If you quit completely, congratulations!

If you are not strong enough to quit completely, remember smoking 20 cigs a day is TEN times worse then 2 cigs a day. Also there are nicotine patches but it may not be any better.

06-19-02, 17:13

As a nebie who has been following the action on this forum, IMHO I feel that Adelz is simply out to bait the serious users of this forum & the more you take that bait the bolder his statements become... what a pest! Perhaps ignoring the lil' fella will ensure he loses interest?
Adelz, i feel you have a lot of unresolved issues & anger towards women & jealousy towards other men you feel are "getting a better time than yourself" ?

Joe Zop
06-19-02, 20:21
Given that the Addled-one, in all his forms, has been cleared out of the archives, and keeps getting flushed out of here as his level of irritation rises to the point Jackson notices, I just don't see much point in engaging him at this point. It's been months since he's said anything new, other than a new variation of vitriol spewed at other participants, so it's pretty clear his guise of "helping" people by pulling the wool from their eyes has degenerated into baying. Still, Skinless, you had me laughing with your latest hero definition...

What *does* she like to do other than shop, Skinless? Do you know? Is she religious? Historically minded? Possible destinations there. Keeping sun out of the equation does narrow things quite a bit given that the sun's pretty omnipresent in Thailand, and it means not much is available in terms of water places, more than likely. Is Chiang Mai on the agenda because she's from that area?

It's tough on a couple of counts -- first, women in the trade tend to keep kind of vampire hours, necessarily, and second you've got a substantial enough age difference that your senses of what "fun" might be are different. Not to mention the aspect of being citified after not growing up there, and what that does to you. The question, I think, is whether or not she'll actually tell you what she personally might like to do (presuming it's not shopping, which is honestly many young women's favorite pastime be they in or out of the life) as opposed to continue to couch her answer based on the process of getting as much out of you as possible.

The good part, of course, is that you're going during the low season, so it should be possible to do whatever you and she want/decide pretty much on the fly.

Apac Boy
06-20-02, 03:12
hey adelz, i was just trying to help you out...cause i know ur short term memory is..uh...well..it's short...

tks for thinking bout me though...i'm in Portland right now getting ready for school so I won't be back until at least x-mas.


phom yaak glap pai klon teap prungnii!!!

06-20-02, 03:49

My experience up North is limited but I can say: forget Chiang Rai.
Sukothai might be fun as might Ayuthaya (sorry, spelling from memory). I do recommend the "tourist" ferry from Ayuthaya back to BKK. I would have enjoyed it more with a squeze.

Or, go "balls out" and take her over to Angkor Wat. Does she have a passport ?

Just food for thought.

Joe and Caligula,

You're right. We should simply ignore the dysfunctional one.


Joe Zop
06-20-02, 05:03
Since her education is limited, and she indicated a real initial interest, Chiang Mai as well as Sukhothai would probably make sense on an historical basis, and there are certainly tons of wats. Even if you're not up for the whole trekking experience, the rain forest area in the national park up there is pretty nice, and my understanding is that the zoo there is considered one of the best in Asia. The night market is at least mercifully cheap if you want to feed her shopping jones a bit, and it's simply a slower and more mellow pace in general.

Sounds as though getting her out of Bangkok and away from her friends might allow her to actually tell you a bit more of what she wants to do, as opposed to what she feels she ought to make you do :-) Might be up to you to put an agenda in place, so she can be dragged along and learn along with you without betraying her lack of knowledge. That also provides a good surface excuse for her own edification -- these things are about educating the farang and she's just along for the ride.

Joe Zop
06-20-02, 06:12
Hey, Lonely Planet guides have their flaws, but their basics like maps and times and such are usually at least ok, especially for the touristy stuff. Their stuff on hotels and restaraunts usually sucks, but at least all the stuff is in a handy place. Personally, I've always preferred Fodors to LP, and I just ignore what any of these things have to say about nightlife and suspect what any of them say about prices. But then, I tend to collect piles of these things cause I've got a short attention span :-)

Apac Boy
06-20-02, 09:06
skinless, u know i would help ya...but my idea of thailand is sukhumvit, rachatda, and pattaya.


06-20-02, 10:56

I'm not sure if some of you are serious about the banality of taking out a hooker sightseeing or you are gettting a perverse thing out of it.... I hope for your own sake is the last one....

Thai working girls talk a lot among themselves about the desperate "farang" looking for pussy, love, and they try to figure out the most efficient way to make more money out of them... some of you guys in here are starting to sound a little desperate for company or to simulate a real "relationship" ..... I hope you are getting a perverse pleasure out of it otherwise your drooling over pussy its getting to be sad and boring.....


06-20-02, 12:08
Hey Smelda,
Did you ever think for a tiny little moment that maybe the reason your hookers want to leave you asap, and don't ask you any personal questions, or don't care if they see you again , is the fact that YOU are not worth the effort in their eyes? Your cynical, pessimistic persona reveals itself to us via your penmanship and I am sure oozes from your pores as you breathe. Lighten up, try to get a new passport made so you can leave Thailand and refresh your outlook. You sound like a psychologist's dream.

06-20-02, 13:39

yeah, well i could give a shit about what some of the guys in here decide to do with hookers in thailand... i just wonder if they are taking themselves a bit too seriously and some in here seem to have a text book knowledge on the scene and treat the whole subject as a college undergraduate course in human relations...

i'm all for treating the hooker with respect and pay accordingly ... i never take one unless i know the price up-front and there are no surprises... i happen to be a good looking guy and i'm able to get deals, still i don't doubt for a moment that the girls are just for the making of money and any comments from them that i should spend more time or take them out sightseeing is ignored ..... i do like to talk to them about their jobs and it is fascinating to learn stuff that most sex tourists would have no clue about.... the whole scene in thailand is set up us a business and even though most of the girls have little education they are smart about making the most money with as little effort as possible and this has nothing to do with sex or love either...

well, everyone seeks different expeeriences and that's fine but some of the postings in here borderline the absurd....


06-21-02, 01:56
Tee Dee H,
As you know opinions are like asssholes, everybody has one. Maybe if you released your "bad seed" a little more often, you might just realize its true value. All hookers are not the same. Some I find are very fun , desireable and entertaining to be with, and those are the ones I may employ for a longer business relationship. I really don't know what you mean, that we don't "pay for her service or looks". The first things we see and desire are her looks and secondly, how she may service us or let us do to her body. Of course we all like the fact that when she walks out the door and we lock it, its time for true rest or solo adventures, etc. Not all of of has the experience and time in Thailand as you do, but with your hard core attitude, one wonders if it is really worth it. I'm sure your not always a grumpy guy, but I work with a couple people like yourself and if they had their way, they would clone an army of themselves. Sabai dee rhue?

06-21-02, 08:13
Clearly we have two camps with different views here. And that is fine. Z and Juice have their way of doing things (and I usually stick to the 3fs as well), but whats wrong with someone enjoying a different tack ? We are all on the same side ! And while I can't call the ladies "the enemy" they are a common conquest. Z, no one here jumps your shit cuz of the way you monger. Just the way you come down on other "hobbyists". Skinless is not talking about signing a mortgage for the big titted one, he just thinks HE will have some fun with her out of town.

Absurd is spending $100 for a date with a stuck up So-Calif 5, and not even getting laid. God I hate the bitches in L.A.


You're welcome. It sounds like I may be wrong about Chiang Rai. It was 11 years ago and I was seeking nightlife. Not much luck.

On the guide book subject. I, too, don't care much for the LP's. They are just a little "holier than thow" with their nightlife and environmental opinions. I've found the Moon publications to be pretty good.


06-21-02, 13:18

I hear you... I hate the BEACHES in L.A.


06-22-02, 00:49

Your posting and opinion on Sukhotai,
Where is it and how far is it from Bangkok, or it is closer to
Pattaya? Do you have to take a plane or bus to get there?

What is the difference between the old and the new Sukhotai,
Are there girls there?

Whatever answers you can provide would be helpful!
I don't have a Thailand Map!


06-22-02, 05:44

enjoy your month of adventure....


06-22-02, 13:09
I've done the hooker/soapy girl dating scene a few times and continue to do so just for experience and fun as well... and I'm only 28.

i like to look at it this way... i'm pretty much a local by the way.

I get tired of girls who are my equal in class, financial status and who are very attractive. and I still can work it out logically that there is no way I won't get tired of a girl who can never meld into my social group (different class and obviously different financial status), or even carry a conversation with my parents (even though the language is the same) or friends. take off the trippin' daisy sunglasses for a moment and just think of what you guys talk about. jing jing.

so all i do when i'm 2-3 days into one of these little escapes from reality (and I'm sure you know what they are like.... getting it on all day and night, dancing, eating, drinking and doing whatever else to your poor brain cells... sleeping till noon or 4pm and doing it all over again).... just dip into your dark side and make that cut and make the clean break. it's less painless to you and to her (yes they are money makers... but yes they have emotions).

do whatever it takes... convince yourself that you're one of the bad guys, you're Humphrey Bogart, Ghengis Khan, you're James Dean, Bruce Lee all rolled into one and just move on.... this life is yours. not theirs. you're here because you have the power to be here. you have a pocket full of purples and greys. you're Caesar. did Caesar go to Sukothai on a tour bus? did Caesar wire a monthly allowance to his consort in Macedonia?

MIRAGE tonight! up the escalator and allll the way to the left. sideline on the right side halfway to the fish bowl. no pain. no pain.


06-22-02, 14:19

finally someone with experience that makes sense.... I agree with you 100% in that the escapes can be fun and sometimes "educational" and so I endulge in those ocasssioanally but never leave reality aside other than to burn out a few cells....

yeah, they do have emotions and you have to be careful not to burn them out too much as they deserve respect and consideration... after all is a service they provide....

with the power to buy also comes responsibility and a good measure of understanding that they are human beings....

Pack, I will be in Bangkok next Tuesday and then to Samui and then back to Bangkok.. if you want to hook up for sharing stories let me know....


Apac Boy
06-22-02, 18:35
pack LIVES in bangkok. it is different when you live there as oppose to taking a one month trip there and then going back home.


06-22-02, 21:26
For sure, Tap. If one can't cut the strings (and lives here)... then it's a quick express elevator to being broke (which is basically hell here).

Sometimes me and my buddies comment on it.... when we're having a drink or smoke in the Huay Kwang market or Siam Hotel at 4am and there are literally 500-1000 pieces (at the market anyway... maybe only a few hundred at the hotel) of ass/pussy/or Venus death trap all around us (depending on one's point of view). And we wonder where a friend in the group might be... "oh, _____ is stuck on nong Bee, nong Pu, nong etc... this week." "yeah, hope he can get away from her." "yeah." because if you are even moderately jet set here... and party 3 nights a week (and don't form tight bonds to these gals)... you're looking at about 3000-4000 a night (conservative). $800-1000 a month and you're enjoying life like a prince. If you're hooked on a girl.... you're going to have day time expenses, possibly rent on her place, minor rec. drug expenses (which multiply like you wouldn't believe... or maybe just as you'd expect), gift expenses (and believe me, little 100 Baht, 300 Baht knick knacks also add up quick), 2,000 Baht a week groceries and Lotus and Carrefour, and so on and so on.... Ah, not to mention when one is under the influence of a girl like the type we're talking about... let's say it will probably affect your job/work/income stream and so your life might start caving in from the other side as well.

*puffs on cigarette* ... *Pack looks at an old knife scar from early on in his 3rd tour of duty*

An alternative to being the white knight character... I myself just like to be the "elder brother who is around." I tell the ones that I am a little close to.... "okay, call me if you have a little trouble. But don't call me if you have big trouble." The relationship is less rocky, the pressure is not on you (usually it'll be on another guy... the sucker or marriage 55555 character), the feeling is good, and there is much less chance of pain all around.

Yeah Juice. Happy to meet ya. Drop me an email.

Hope school is going well, Tap. I got a good recommendation for you next time you get here. To make up for not hooking up with ya' last time.


Originally posted by tapioca
pack LIVES in bangkok. it is different when you live there as oppose to taking a one month trip there and then going back home.


Apac Boy
06-23-02, 05:10
i'm gonna take u up on that tip...u better show me next time!
i like the "call me with small problem, don't call me with big problem" line. that is so true...

u have mail.....check it

oh, here's ur list:
must do...TG
must see...naked TG


06-23-02, 18:48
no worries bro. As for the Soi Suk falang, I'm not sure.... haven't been around there. There are falangs here who manage to make the long haul (some English teachers and a very very FEW businessmen)... but there are many more who don't make it. If the LOS breaks you, you typically end up going home broke and bitter (or committing suicide, dying by accident, by drink, etc) as opposed to end up begging or selling knick knacks or something like that. So the only times I see them are in Buddhist temples occasionally in America, or hear of them bitching on newsgroups or other forums. Typically they're the guys who say "cheatin' *****, rice paddy hooker," etc a lot. Of course that's just a generalization. ;)

If you're on holiday, you typically don't have to worry about it. Because you have a set budget, you will still have a job waiting back home, and the "trip" has a set end date.

The real risk only comes when you want to relocate here (typically this starts with ideas of marriage, "what kind of business can I run here?", how to transfer larger sums of money than 10,000 Baht at a time, etc. ;) Falangs will sometimes try to open bars, whatever shops, restaurants, and a number even try to write novels... anything, everything that will somehow supply their LOS addiction. It's sad really. Ever see a crack addict walk into a tobacco shop back in the states trying to buy a pipe ("lll. luk luk luk looking 4 444 for a ppp pipe.")? It's the same kind of feeling I get when I see a broken falang.

It's simple economics..... 1) abandon job back home. 2) relocate 3) unable create new income stream and on top of that take on the burden of a TG and her extended family.

It's not rocket science eh? It's Disneyland. How likely is it that you're going to be able to move to Disneyland and be able to prosper there? I just happen to be fortunate that my family has old friends here like Mickey, Goofy, and Pluto... and were here when they were still building parts of Disneyland.


Originally posted by skinless
packman, I hear what u r saying. Change of plan with me. back to plan B. I won't bother meeting this one at all. I'll do my own thing, have a nice vacation and just have plenty of cheap pussy in between the rests. That way there is no running cost and no fears of anything important going missing. A month with one TG is a month wasted and how do you put a price on that - the boredom and frustration factors.
Packman a question: On Soi Suk, there is a blond farang, can be seen selling knick knacks late at night, must make about 500 bt a day max. Are there many really broke/broken farnags over there that you know of? I can see how it could happen: lovley lady, late nights, jobs can wait. But have you met many such farangs?

06-23-02, 22:01
"Been there, done that"... except it was Manila. Thankfully my employer in the states said I could come back if things didn't work out. I may try the LOS on a semi-permanent basis, once I get that retirement check coming. But, as "Pack" points out, investing much more than rent/barfine amounts is risky at best.

Just my two bits,


06-24-02, 17:42
hehe. Thanks Freeler. But actually a lot of people have made the Disney comparison. Typically it's the first time one walks into Nana or any upscale MP. Same for my friends visiting from abroad. Disney usually comes up after going out for a few days or a week or two... and I think to myself ("uh oh. hope ____ doesn't plan on moving here.").


Originally posted by Freeler

If you are the original writer of this:

"It's not rocket science eh? It's Disneyland. How likely is it that you're going to be able to move to Disneyland and be able to prosper there?"

Then you deserve the Nobel Prize for Literature!


06-24-02, 19:06
Hey guys....

I like the Disney analogy to Thailand.... I'm heading out to Thaidisney World tomorrow and will have a good experience by playing it right.... a little of this and a little of that and then move on.... The menu is large and plenty of main courses with only a few good ones for dessert....

Pack.... here is my email: rmber2002@hotmail.com - maybe we can hookup while I'm there.... It would be fun to meet you.....


06-25-02, 19:55
just curious... but anyone else here besides Skinless catch anything in country? sometimes I worry about it.... sometimes I don't. And Skinless... may I ask what club/bar you got the girl out of? or you think it's something that just built up?

anyone else?


06-25-02, 22:47
Hey Pack,

This is what works for me (and the US Navy, having discovered the side effect). Before going, visit your doc and tell him you want
an anti-malarial drug called doxycycline. That is what is was developed for, but, as the navy discovered, it also offers protection from common STD's. The only drawback is you can't take it for long periods of time, say a month or so. So it's fine for the tourist but the expats are still outta luck. So lets all feel sorry for them... :)

I've never gottena dose while on the doxy.


06-26-02, 01:12
Every doctor on the planet will tell you that using any kind of antibiotic on a preventive basis is a really, really, really, really bad idea.

06-26-02, 01:56
Dickhead is right. Liberal use of antibiotics can sometimes destroy your natural bacterial flora thus increasing the chances of opportunistic pathogens to gain receptor sites on your body as well as help those infectious agents your are trying to kill gain immunity to those same drugs. Use these, and all other drugs, under the supervision of your physician.

Marco Pole
06-26-02, 10:48
Ok so now that we've opened the malaria can of worms does anyone have any insight into the actual transmission rates of this disgraceful disease?

I just had my full treatment of shots this afternoon (typhoid, tetanus, HEP A/B, polio) and was prescribed a drug called mefloquine for malaria.

The notes say I should start taking the MEF (Not to be confused with MILF) drug one week prior to my trip (Trip Schedule: Oct 2- Nov 9) and continue weekly doses throughout the journey including four weeks after returning.

The nurse I visited today mentioned that Mefloquinine is actually resisted by the mosquitos in certain areas of Thailand and Cambodia, and that I should consider taking Doxycyline instead. From the reports on the CDC website, Doxycyline is not only required daily throughout your trip (which totally sucks), but it has common side effects such as sensitivity to sunlight and nausea.

As I will be visiting semi-sensitive areas in both countries (Cambodia: Angkor Wat....Thailand: Islands/Chiang Mai), I'm curious if it's necessary to take either one of these drugs. Can someone, either an Ex-pat with significant experience or a local, explain the Malaria situation in more detail during the Oct - Nov months.


MP (First-Timer)

P.S. Heu Packripper,

What part of Disneyland did your Uncle Goofy build? Just curious....

Joe Zop
06-26-02, 14:28
My understanding is that most tourist areas in Thailand are pretty safe from malaria (including Chiang Mai) and that as long as you're not venturing outside those areas into deep country you're pretty safe. The high malaria seasons are supposed to be June and December, with June being the worst. Most of the risk in Thailand is in the border areas. There is risk at Angkor Wat, and the situation's quite a bit worse in Cambodia in general, however, as it's classified as one of the highest risk areas for malaria. Your nurse's recommendation is right -- there's resistance to both chloroquine and mefloquine in the area. One key aspect -- you only need to start taking the doxycycline a couple of days before you go into a sensitive area.

I took Doxycycline on one of my trips to Thailand, as I was out in the country in a risk-based area. So unfortunately I ended up taking it during my time in the islands as well, and found that its "sun sensitivity" aspects weren't really all that much in my case, though I generally used a high-level sunblock in any event since I'm from cloudy northern climes where our reaction to the sun is mostly, "What is that orb in the sky?"

06-26-02, 19:02
Oh, I didn't mean to sound big. I meant that a lot of the good ideas or ways to make money are already solidly occupied, and if your family didn't get here years ago, it's hard to build something from scratch nowadays. Our main business is packing and setting machines (um... machines that say... pack fruit into cans and seal them... machines that you see at Don Muang that wrap the purple, pink or yellow plastic strip seal across your luggage... that kind of thing) all imported from Taiwan and supplemented by cheap Thai parts.

As for the the anti clap treatment... I think I'll stick to condoms. I'm not big on antibiotics. But yeah, good point mate.... just think, we're getting it on with girls who do 100-500 guys a year. Say at least 5-10 broken condoms and however many go skinless. I'll keep mine wrapped thanks and save my skin diving for one of my "good girls" (hope she's being good anyway). ;)


Originally posted by Marco Pole


MP (First-Timer)

P.S. Heu Packripper,

What part of Disneyland did your Uncle Goofy build? Just curious.... [/i]

Marco Pole
06-27-02, 01:34
Word. Sounds like I should pick up some Doxy for the trek through Cambodia and leave the rest to chance. Or maybe I'll just throw in a few gin & tonics for good measure.


You hiring falang's at your fruit plant? I've been told I'm pretty skilled at packing the forbidden fruit known as "poo-nanny" Where should I send the resume? =)


06-27-02, 05:27
For what it is worth this is what happened to me in SE Asia. In 1990 I caught Malaria out in the woods near Mae Hong Song. No symptoms until about six weeks later when I was back in the UK. I was sick as a dog and was in hospital for a while as I did not get it treated quickly as I did not think it was malaria. Anyway all fixed after a week or two.
At the time I was taking Maloprim and Chloroquin which accounts for the late diagnosis.
Since then I have spent loads of time in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand etc and the strains of malaria seem to change and become more resistant as each year passes. I always wear a long sleve shirt and trousers at dusk and am under a net at dawn or in aircon or near a decent fan.
Gave up on the drugs as they make you feel bloody terrible.
Plenty of Mossi Spray as well is a very good idea. Touch wood never had another dose of that particular parasite since then. If you ask a doctor in UK or Australia they will give you a load of drugs that probably dont work and make you feel bad.
Also found eating spicy food regularily keeps the little buggers off as well.

06-27-02, 10:41
Hey guys;
These pages used to be filled with info about women. Now I see pages after page of messages on everything but women. Have we lost our focus or has the "AdleZ" women phobia spred?

06-27-02, 10:59
My other message was my rant for the night. What I am looking for is info. I am planning a trip to Thailand in March or April. I plan to stay about a week. What I would really like to find is a sweet (young, pretty and willing) working girl who will stay with me for several days rather than a quick F&S in a room above a bar. I would not only pay her the appropriate tariff but also wine and dine her albeit not extravagantly. I would appreciate the logistics of this ie where to find her, approximately what would she charge, etc. I was also thinking Pattaya with it's beaches looked the most interesting. Unfortunately I am not affluent and I don't speak a word of anything but English. Any advice I could get would be appreciated.

Joe Zop
06-27-02, 15:28
Skinless -- has your big titted friend dropped off your itinerary completely? Did I miss something? After all these months of mulling and obsessing, those of us in the cheap seats are curious...

Apac Boy
06-27-02, 18:48
the problem with "renting" a gogo girl is that u gotta pay that damn barfine everyday u take her out..... at least freelancers, u can prob just tell em "5,000BHT 4 days" or something like that...
i'm sure they'll do it cause that's guaranteed money and they don't have to go out and find customers for 3/4 nights.

BUT...on the other hand..gogo girls are just so much better than freelancers ON AVERAGE.

lastly, i'm sure u already know this..don't mention that u want to take her for 4 days until u r really sure about it. cause if tell her and change ur mind later, good luck trying to find the right words to tell her to leave...


Apac Boy
06-28-02, 06:01
i don't know about that statement on freelancers...that 80% wants to orgasm....i think that might be a lil bit high....about 79.9% higher.

2nd, i'm sure u can pickup a freelancer for 400Bht ST....but come on...i don't think a young 18-20 yr old girl would really go for that amount, not even in Pattaya.

Also, he's staying for only a week. Time is short...i'm assuming he's never gone before...so it'll be easier to hit the gogo's...


06-28-02, 12:14
Hey Joe, thanks for asking the big question.

Jesus Skin ! After all that about the psuedo love affair !? Now we're gonna have to listen to Z tell us all how he "cured" you !
The last "white knight" left out there felled... Oh well, on to boinking !

On the malaria thing: I will continue to take the doxy, despite the well meaning opinions to the contrary. If ya gotta take an anti-malarial anyway...why not the one with an added affect ? I have never had nausea with it, and I dive heavily in the RP without having noticed any extra sensativity to the sun. Repellant and netting are wise, but don't count on that long sleeved shirt helping that much. The average mosiquito has no problem biting through a light shirt.


As Freeler said, forget Pattaya if you're thinking beaches. P has it's advantages: close to BKK with tons of "puntang", but, for my money, if you plan to do anything beyond bar hopping, Phuket is a much more pleasant choice.


06-28-02, 13:58
On GoGo-girls vs freelancers.

in principle, freelancers are totally flexible, with no strings attached. You can negotiate directly with the girl for a "package deal" (say: 10 days in Krabi for 10,000 baht, OK?).

Go-go girls are attached to a bar, and the mamasan will want her cut. On the other hand, go-go girls are on average better looking and more used to a certain "customer-facing" discipline. And if you are not happy with the girl, you can go back to the bar and the mamasan can do something (maybe).

Let's keep in mind that in LOS everything is negotiable. The best to do, IMHO, is to pick a go-go girl, and have her for a night or two LT, paying the barfine and the LT. If she is the one, then talk her into going to a nice place with you (Krabi, Phuket, Huahin, wherever).

The odds are that she will be all for it, because it is the guarantee of a steady income for a while without having to dance in the bar, find a farang for the night etc. But what about the barfine?

Tell the girl that you understand the situation, that although she is by now madly in love with you, she still needs money because that is what she does for a living, sex for money, that is.

Tell her that you find perfectly ok to give money to her, because she is the one doing all the work, but that the mamasan and the bar do very little to justify your giving money to them.

Tell her that there are thousands of freelancer that you could have without paying anything to a bar, but that you would really like to have her anyway.

Tell her that you'd rather spend all your money on her, and then send her to negotiate a big discount with the mamasan. She should be better at it than you would.

I figure that if the barfine is 500, then the mamasan should be expected to cut it to 100-150 per night.

That should be acceptable. If not, then the girl has the choice to take a holiday (unpaid by the bar) and risk to lose her job. It is not so much of a trouble for a nice gogo girl, since bars are usually understaffed, and girls fly from one to another quite easily anyway.

And if it fails, then there ARE indeed thousands of freelancers to choose from. It is a buyer's market after all.

Hope this helps. I have played it that way several times, with success, and I plan to do it again next month, when I plan to hire my 20-year old sweetheart for a 3 week trip upcountry.

By the way, the same "big discount for long time" does apply to the fee for the girl as well. A good gogo girl in NEP expects (or hopes for) 2,000 baht for LT. You can cut that to 1,000 per day on a long term deal.

Any comments from the old hands ?

Joe Zop
06-28-02, 14:27
Firedick -- Yeah, I've gotta confess that even though the whole month and pseudo-rescue thing was a bit more extreme than even ol' soft-hearted me would go, I'm still astonished at Skinless' move from rapturous comparisons of TGs to mermaids and heroes to the last one comparing them to junkies. Wow.

One note, Skinless -- as much as I do like Chiang Mai, I'd echo Freeler's comments about the fact that you're close to the touchy spot of the Myanmar border, and not only are the spats between the countries often right up in that region to the west, but that same western area is one of the higher risk malaria places (in general, along the Myanmar border is as a whole.) While neither of these issues should dissuade you -- the risk on both is still pretty low -- it is be a good idea to stay current on the situation. Also, since the population of Chiang Mai is about 180,000 versus the 5.6 or so of Bangkok, and the general tourist scene isn't about bonking, the scene is considerably slower there. Many folks used to the in-your-face endless choices of Bangkok or Pattaya end up disappointed.

Tap, Freeler -- I agree with you both. I've got Freeler's preference for freelancers (or even for beer bar girls as a kind of medium range) in terms of the general sensibility issue, though you can definitely find more absolute stunners in gogos, but I think Tap's right in his advice for a first-timer with a week. (And, really, a bar fine of ten bucks a day or so, from a non-local perspective, is pretty much nothing to pay for the company. In other places you'd be spending far more than that on the additional food.) Najene, if you want someone to spend a week with you, you'll really have no problem. Just go "shopping" in any of the above places, find someone you want to spend time with, and go for it. I agree with Tap that you definitely don't want to mention the week up front, in case it doesn't work for you, but do make sure that your choice is up for more than short-time. And Phuket or Samui are far better places to go if you want beautiful beach than Pattaya.

Joe Zop
06-28-02, 14:43
Well-put, Seydlitz. My only addition would be that you need to decide what your limits and breaking points are, preferably in advance of negotiating -- do you really want to spend time with this particular TG or not? If so, is 500 baht a day going to make a substantial difference in your satisfaction, and where's that going to come from? From your wallet's perspective, it makes no difference whether the mamasan cuts the bar fine in half or you pay the girl less, so there are negotiating aspects and ploys available in both directions, as Seydlitz aptly describes. She may actually be happier with an arrangement that pays her less but doesn't involve the bar, as it keeps her on firm footing and with good face at her home turf. Or she prefer to have the baht herself, and have you negotiating with the mamasan and thereby demonstrating how desired she is. Depends on the TG involved -- not that you'll always get a good read on that, or, for that matter, that her preference needs to figure in all in any event. (It's a question of you getting what you expect from her, which can be affected by her mood.)

But the bottom line is your happiness and satisfaction -- you truly *are* the rich farang in the equation, and you decide how much is too much or how much is ok. And either paying going rate or negotiating for every last baht is fine as long as it leads to you having the time you want to have.

Joe Zop
06-28-02, 15:54
Hey, Skinless, you're not the bad boy -- you were just unusually circumspect about this change as opposed to previous decision-making processes. When I was last reading things, you were posting phone sex transcripts and breathlessy awaiting a reunion, and then next thing I saw everything had switched. Personally, I think you're right on all counts, including your trip plans, and also that all of the comparisons -- mermaids, heroes, junkies -- are all equally valid.

And I expect you're a seasoned enough traveller to sidestep potential troubles in any event. Umm, perhaps excluding the clap if you get overly enamored and go "skinless" :-)

06-28-02, 16:13
An interesting article in The New Scientist:
"Semen makes you happy. That's the remarkable conclusion of a study comparing women whose partners wear condoms with those whose partners don't."

As always, here comes the P/C health warning: Seydlitz does not condone/advocate/encourage that people abstain from using condoms.

06-29-02, 07:55
Thanx guys. It is interesting to see the differences in opinions between you but not that far apart. You have been very helpful. One thing I picked out was that I may be better off just going for all nighters and, if I am pleased, extending for more nights. I am somewhat confused as I have seen the names " Go-Go Girls" and "Bar Girls". Are they different or just different names for the same thing? I assume that you hook up with them in the Go-Go bars As for "Freelancers", how do you hook up with them? As a recovering addict and drug counselor (I have 16 years clean myself) I have considerable personal knowledge of druggie prostitutes and really want to avoid the baggage that goes with them.
Over the next few months I will probably be asking a lot of questions. I just came back from 2 weeks in Europe where I had some good experiences but wish I had done a bit more research. I hit Amsterdam, Den Haag, Brussels, and Barcelona. The girls were gorgeous and eager to please but I could have avoided being so far in debt by the time I got back and more satisfied.

06-29-02, 10:40
Thanks for the great advice Freeler. I get the impression from a lot of other things I've read that Pattaya or almost anywehere would be safer than BKK. As for getting off of the drugs, I'm certain you've seen some Dopers in your travelsand are aware of why it isn't that hard to stay away from such a losing lifestyle once you can experience some real life.

Joe Zop
06-29-02, 15:19
Najene -- true, Pattaya and elsewhere are probably safer than Bangkok, but in large part that's because Bangkok is a big city (5.6 million) and has all the attendent foolishness one finds in those, particularly in poorer regions, and other places are much smaller. And while I agree with everyone's cautions here -- you are in a place you truly know very little about and you are an obvious visitor and thereby a potential mark -- I think it's worth noting that in general it's far safer to wander around Thailand than it is to do the same in similar places in the US. Thais are generally pretty friendly and as long as you keep your radar up and keep in mind that in any semi-legal scene there's a degree of risk and bad apples, you should be fine. With your background and experience I'd be surprised to hear that you have trouble. One note, however -- there is a reasonably high incidence of women in the scene who are on drugs -- mostly Yaba (a kind of methamphetamine) and X. Again, this is generally not a problem, but just be aware of it.

As Freeler notes, there are literally thousands of women available in Bangkok and Pattaya, so approach and strategies are just as varied. Most people quickly and easily find an approach that they're comfortable with, and the large amount of choice allows you to try again fairly easily. As always, of course, YMMV in terms of taste and sense of beauty, attractiveness, and desireability. But as a first-time visitor, I'll be surprised if you feel anything other than as if you've been parachuted into paradise.

Apac Boy
06-30-02, 06:21
i kind of agree with adlez for this only because Najene has never gone before. It will be more fun on your first trip to butterfly as much as you can. BUT...if you get lucky on your first night...and find this lil hottie that gives it to you good and is REALLY hot...then I don't see a reason why not just rent her for the trip. I mean, u ain't getting married or anything...ur just paying the Costco rate cause you're buying in bulk. AND WHO DOESN'T LIKE SHOPPING AT COSTCOS!!!


06-30-02, 09:23
You are right. Poor Adle does have some scars on his soul as indicated by his obvious rage towards these women. As I said before I have considerable personal experience with prostitutes as friends as well as non-paying sexual relationships in my more unsavory life. It is true that these are business relationships and no one is looking for true love. I just happen to dislike quickies and prefer to have time to savor the sexual experience. If I enjoy the beauty and sexual abilities of a working girl I would like to extend the experience as long as is reasonable.

06-30-02, 10:09
Have you ever noticed that after your deal is consumated there appears to be momentary flash of near affection coming from the woman you have just had sex with for money? Well, for what it is worth, it is real. Despite her professional nature this woman has just shared the most intimate moment 2 people can have. It does have some impact emotionally upon her but make no mistake. It is NOT love. As I said in my previous posts I have knwn many prostitutes on a personal level.

06-30-02, 20:31
it's just endorphins* being injected into your brain.

as long as you don't associate this feeling with putting your hand on your wallet (and opening the wallet, passing our purple or grey colored notes, buying gold chains, apartments, cars, houses, etc), you'll be okay. The first two things are okay.... but after that, you risk becoming a bitter, bitchin' falang.



*Any of a group of peptide hormones that bind to opiate receptors and are found mainly in the brain. Endorphins reduce the sensation of pain and affect emotions.

06-30-02, 22:41
OH, how clinical we can get. Where is the magic, the fun of our imagination. It is true that you can't place too much value on these moments but I appreciate the value of just being able to have a moment of validation besides the crass exchange of cold cash. I also am very aware that these women are also feeling human beings and desirable women. I have no illusions that these moments are love. I also believe that treating these women in a friendly manner brings a more rewarding sexual experience. I am 62 years old and must embrace every moment I can get at this time. Every minute counts.
You must also remember that all of our emotions are really only neurotransmitter exchanges even our greatest ones.

Joe Zop
06-30-02, 23:09
You'll get no argument from me, Najene, on your approach, though you decidedly will from others. It's about the quality of the experience, however each one of us defines that, as far as I'm concerned, and whatever works to improve it is all to the good. It can all be about quantity if that's what you're into, or it can be about looking for that one quality experience. Whatever fits you. If you read through the archives you'll see this whole thing has long been a source of contention, with several different camps, and hence this thread.

And, just because this is something that's been floating around on this forum for a while, let me assert that there are far worse things in the world than being taken for a fool -- and walking around afraid of it is one of them, and treating everything and everyone like a bitter joke or potential enemy is another.

And Pack's just funnin' ya with his clinical answer because he senses another soft heart entering the conversation :-)

Now I expect it's time for someone to give the 3F litany again...

07-01-02, 02:28
Actually I do appreciate the spirit of Pack's post. I am enjoying the spirit of most of the interchanges I've seen here. I am beginning to appreciate the sharing of ideas and experiences as well as humor. My only difficulty is that I hate to type. I do feel that there is a pretty good, if slightly demented at times, bunch of people using this site.

07-01-02, 03:49
Thanx for your post. My job as a drug counselor trains me well for discerning the difference between sincere and crazy. As for the aforementioed unfortunate one, I have seen several reasonable and helpful posts from him and realize that he is OK except for occasional outbursts of rage. Your explanation makes sense.
Unfortunately if I find a wife over there she would soon have to care for me in my nether years. Besides I still want to marry the one I met in Den Haag (The Hague)(see post there). I do expect to enjoy my trip there especially with the support I have received here.
The one city I do NOT recommend is mine. Play for Pay in San Francisco is difficult to find, a major financial investment and seldom very satisfying. However for the young and vital the free scene is pretty good. There are a lot of fine friendly women here and straight males are a precious commodity.
I just went to the Gay Pride Celebration at the Civic Center. It is a huge event here and not only draws gays from everywhere but also every beautiful woman in Northern California. On a hot day like today many of them are topless. San Francisco women do like to show their titties.

Apac Boy
07-01-02, 05:39
wow...najene's 62 yrs old???

let's just call him pappy from now on.

i didn't take ur age into consideration but now I am...stay with one girl..u'll have more fun. i just cannot see you doing a tour of gogo's and disco's every night looking for pussy.

choke dee pappy...


07-01-02, 06:03
Yep that's me and you're right I am not up for that scene although I could hang for a night or two.

07-01-02, 08:25
I just checked out the archives for just 2 months ago and now I can see that some of the posters are pretty rabid. All that I have seen since I got here have been very civilized.

07-01-02, 10:25

could you elaborate on that testicle massage ? I was not aware that a girl could specialise that much. Is it that good ? Can it be found in Bkk ?

07-01-02, 13:07

about the testicle massage, (sorry to insist, but I am intrigued).

So you had a girl perform a traditional or rather tantric massage of your scrotum. However you mention a powerful ejaculation. Did the girl give you a hand release or what?

Was the performance part of a paid sex session ?

Also, how much did you pay for it ?

Thanks for the info.

07-01-02, 13:43

yes, I figured that the board had changed nature recently. I feel a bit out of place with my genuine concern for sexual techniques.

To be very specific, like you, I am very partial to ball stroking. And skillfull licking of the sensitive area you mention, together with the inner tights and anal area, of course. Rimming is somewhat of the essence of Asian delights to me.

And yes, I intend to get my babe to do it, repeatedly. I am sure that she will do anything I ask her to do (she already did quite a lot). The only issue is that she might not be all that experienced at sophisticated tricks. She is still young and fresh, after all, which makes her hightly attractive to me.

Hence my interest for adleZ's report.

07-02-02, 04:30
Life is sooo cruel,

I just found out that I got a couple of extra days of for the 4th of July weekend. A crazy idea popped up in my head - what about a trip to LOS for a quick pit-stop or in BKK's case, unload for a few days? Quickly, I jumped on the phone to call United to see IF by any chance (I know really naive thought but what the hell) there were any last minute tix left to BKK to be had on miles (regular tix on short notice over $2,500).

I had some luck and was able to get a flight but due to the scarcity I had to be re-route from NYC through Chicago and on to BKK which added on 20,000 miles to 80,000 miles instead of the regular 60,000. This is where the pain comes in - Larry only got 75,000 miles in his United account. Fuck, panic started to arrive but I figure perhaps I could just transfer some Am Ex miles over (NO NO Larry you ignorant horny bastard you should know by know that transferring miles takes a couple of days). Life is SOOO cruel! I completely floundered when I was so close to the finishing line........ All I wanted to do was to shoot my fire works into a bargirl!

Well, I guess I have to wait untill my other trip that is booked for the beg. of September.

Instead now it is 4th in the Hampton's - I guess it could be funny to see the facial expression of some hog when I ask her how much it would be to barfine her...(1. hard kick in the scrotum or 2. clueless stare or 3. You paaay baa, yeah fat chance)

I guess at this point I am just rambling senseless due to my utter disappointment so I better shut up (or some one will promptly tell me to)

Apac Boy
07-02-02, 06:14
shutup larry

ur friendly neighborhood forum control advisor


Joe Zop
07-02-02, 15:03
Skinless -- despite a bunch of searching and checking through all my various bookmarks, the only thing I've seen that says something other than 18 being the safe limit is the one guy posting in the Pattaya area and his reference to one web site from one specific Pattaya bar. I've gotta chalk that up as misinformation -- a change like that would be printed more places than that. Since the Thai Penal Code specifically spells out the age of majority as 18, such a change doesn't make any sense in any event.

07-02-02, 22:19
Hey Skinless,

I liked the "carrot" approach, even if it was tongue in cheek. Did you notice that he even refered to his massage ho as "young lady" ? Maybe there's hope for him yet... nah...


07-02-02, 23:27

You are killing me. I am stuck in the Hamptons for the 4th and you are in BKK and will not even visit the girli action areas, huuh that is hard to take. Well there is a heat wave in NY and some time at the beach might cool of my mind. As for desperate, well it is either chatting up ladies and spend a crap load of cash and perhaps not getting action anyway. So if the airline tix is on miles - I would say that with a few purple and reds in your pocket one is always a winner in the NEP lottery and that is not such a bad deal compared to a weekend of blue balls (although you are correct about the 30 hrs).

You are right, I got a little bit out of line there and needed a smack down back to reality. I also have to commend you for schooling the the new guy in the Pattaya section well - first timer and he is scoring all kinds of puz at good bargains.

07-02-02, 23:41
age of consent? there are 18s working everywhere. I've never run into any problems. Hehe. Of course.... I don't take them on 1 week to month long holidays either. :P

ah uncle Najene.... yeah, I'm just playing with the endorphins analogy, but one should keep it in mind. Even myself, after the endorphin injections... I find myself reaching for a 2 grey tip (and then I think to myself... "what the f*ck am I doing?" ... and settle for one purple). Just that little reminder once in awhile saves me 1500 Baht (and possibly even more for you, uncle).

60 huh? We were sitting at Mirage the other night calculating how much we spend and how many girls we'll sleep with by age 40,50,60. 3-5 girls per week for another 40 years (I'm 28 now)... means by the time I'm in your age range, the count will be something like:

2,500 Baht per encounter x 3 gals/week x 40 years = 15,600,000 Baht spent on 6,500+ girls. Of course sometimes there's those crazy nights where we have VIP suites that add even more girls.... but then I'll be conservative and assume I'll observe some religious holidays.

not Wilt Chamberlain or Mao Tse Tung... but hey. not bad.


07-02-02, 23:47
um.... I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest....

but curiously, what # are you guys at?

I have a friend in my crew who's been here since he was 15 and he's at the 2000+ girl mark already (and he's 29).

I've only been doing this for a little while (just started to have real steady disposable income a year or so ago) and am around the 200 mark.

I don't even mention this to my college buddies back in the US because.... well, standards are different there. But here on this board, you guys (most of you), know what the LOS is all about....

come on, ya'll can share. ;)


07-03-02, 00:06
and still this works out less then 10 grands a year, like i will have to take one every day.ore take 2 girls every time.and i think you need thern a nice apartment, si you can get even more out of it

Joe Zop
07-03-02, 01:57
Pack -- interesting, if a little frightening to think about, game. Without sitting down and trying to count too specifically, I expect I'm probably somewhere near skinless' numbers, but maybe slightly behind. Also am only missing Antarctica as a continent, but I'd be afraid that my good friend would turn into an icicle there and either break off or never thaw...

Apac Boy
07-03-02, 06:53
wow...we have 200...400..TG's..i guess i havn't even been burped compared to you guys. I can still name about 80% of the girl's names (4/5). I say about 60 for me. ahh...but really..there is only one that stands out...

oh..I hate to say it..but I'll be da first to admit it..I have fucked 2 girls that are 17yrs old. c'est la vie...

seeow maak!


07-03-02, 07:22
Hey Pack, ya got to give it to endorphins. I can't think of anything better.
I was just looking at the numbers here. Do any of you guys have time for anything else? Actually, even if I could get that much time off I don't believe I could afford it. Your energy amazes me. Even in my prime I would have been hard pressed to keep up. Of course I still prefer my quality over quantity approach. I believe that a fast fuck is like chug-a-lugging a fine wine.

07-03-02, 07:27
Do you know that in the 60's 15 to 17 was fair game? I'm talking about the wild days 67 to 71.

Joe Zop
07-03-02, 07:36
Ah, Najene, but twenty or so a year for a couple of decades can easily get there, too. You can linger for weeks in that time frame :-)

07-03-02, 08:21
I guess I'm just an amateur. Anyhoo, I must confess I've never had an Asian woman. I'm not too sure what to expect.

07-03-02, 19:10
Like I mentioned before.... it only comes out to about $800 a month. Theoretically, a garbage collector working in America could afford it. (as long as you remember not to try to rescue anyone of course)

Also... well, this is the life of the Thai or Asian expat or local boss (lao pan or tao kae) yuppie here. Labor cost is low so there's always someone doing "your work" for you. All you do is sign checks or tell people what to do. So what else is there to do? Play golf? My back would give out if I REALLY played golf 5 days a week (which is what my 'normal' girlfriend and my folks think I'm doing)

Ah Tap,

Well, I definitely can't remember most of the names. We use a system here that you might want to use. Some of us use notepad.txt or their Palm Pilots.... just make sure the wife or girlfriend doesn't find the file.

sample excerpt from the "Pack's X Files" :p
Pim 82d - i (24) June 1, 2002
Nit 10v - i (24) June 3, 2002
Faii 232s - i (21) June 6, 2002
Jeab 50m - i (25) June 8, 2002
Note 211 - i (22) June 10, 2002
Oil 45m - i (22) June 12, 2002
Nok 22 - i (23) June 16, 2002
Tarn 8v - i (23) June 16, 2002
Benz 58 - i (28) June 22, 2002
May 16d - i (19) June 22, 2002
Oh 42d - i (19) June 23, 2002
Noi 28s - i (19) June 23, 2002
Ann 7v - i (18) June 28, 2002
Ann 7v - ii (18) July 1, 2002
Nok 47 - i (25) July 2, 2002

M = model, V = VIP, S = sideline, D = gold star , no number = regular fishbowl, etc

It's useful for when you start getting into the higher #s. 200, I can still remember all the faces. But some buddies after 1,000+ start not remembering and sometimes risk doing the same # twice.

After the date, you should also include a code letter : C for Cleopatra, E for Emmanuelle, CS = Caesar's, J1/J2, Jul, Vic, Mer, etc etc.

It's not just to make you feel good about the total #.
When you're playing long run, you'll learn that...

[hehe... feels like we're moving on to the advanced courses, eh?]

...many girls change workplaces... and sometimes when they don't change workplaces, and take a break for a month or more, they'll come back and be a DIFFERENT # than before. Also if girls move up the payscale, say from fishbowl to VIP..... or works fishbowl in one place and sidelines at another under a different name!.... well, you can kind of keep track of it and not get ripped (because if she's sideline here and fishbowl there..... well of course you'd rather go 'there' and pay less). Ah, and sometimes when a girl breaks up with her boyfriend.... she'll change her friggin' workplace nickname!

Okay. We're out of time for today. Today's lesson was "Avoid Accidentally Bangin' the same Girl Twice" ... which I did do with Ann 7v... but she was really really good (1 strawberry and 2 power up pills on the Pacman scale).


Originally posted by najene
Hey Pack, ya got to give it to endorphins. I can't think of anything better.
I was just looking at the numbers here. Do any of you guys have time for anything else? Actually, even if I could get that much time off I don't believe I could afford it. Your energy amazes me. Even in my prime I would have been hard pressed to keep up. Of course I still prefer my quality over quantity approach. I believe that a fast fuck is like chug-a-lugging a fine wine.

07-04-02, 02:27
Way to go Freeler. I'm still wanting to go back to Den Haag and bang Nadine again and again and again until she does break something, maybe me. That is why it is best that I can't get back there now.
However, tell me something about Asian girls. Are they vocal? I like moaners, groaners and even screamers. I am so tired of American women making you feel that you need to use a hatpin to make you feel that they feel something. My own girlfriend is like that. I am not huge but I am big enough and active enough to at least be felt. Many of us have had European women, I know Freeler has. They respond somewhat and Brazilian women are great. What about Thai women?

07-04-02, 16:36

I thought you were in Bangkok. No? Coming here soon?
I don't think TGs can compare to Brazilian girls on a skill level (sexwise). They prevail in categories (of course all this is in my HUMBLE opinion) :p such as taking care of you, being sweet, talking sweet, and being decent to pretty good at doing the deed. Yeah, there's moaning. But most working girls everywhere moan.... I mean, it's part of the fee. Check your statement detail next time.



Originally posted by najene


However, tell me something about Asian girls. Are they vocal? I like moaners, groaners and even screamers. I am so tired of American women making you feel that you need to use a hatpin to make you feel that they feel something. My own girlfriend is like that. I am not huge but I am big enough and active enough to at least be felt. Many of us have had European women, I know Freeler has. They respond somewhat and Brazilian women are great. What about Thai women?

07-05-02, 07:34
i'm sorry i dont have a house number and the best i can do without a concise street map is to say that she was in the rld wndows area that is closest to schenk (spelling approx) kade. the easternmost rld. it was the one with the most (at that time) young and attractive women. that is the best i can do. she is very attractive in a sweet girl-next-door kind of way. i'd rate her a 10 by my standards. i don't care for fuller- bodied playboy or hustler types. she's a shirley maclaine not a marilyn monroe. she is a brunette. she is also somewhat petite but not tiny.
she sure doesn't move like the innocent girl next door once you get in her. she is a hi-speed fucking machine.

07-05-02, 10:26
Guys I find this latest discussion trend very silly. Who the fuck cares about # when we are talking professional chicks (TGs) here (do you keep track of all the supersized McDonalds meals that you did buy too).

To Zeldas defense it is an adult playland and we are here to hit as much possible puz in the shortest amount of time "the 3fs".

You might kick my ass for this comment but stay real. It is not really a competition and pay for play does not count - PERIOD!!

(I am very drunk while writing this message so please excuse mispellings).

Apac Boy
07-05-02, 18:42
planet rock #9


07-05-02, 20:07
Hola Larry,

like I said.... this wasn't a pissing contest. it was a just wondering query. :)

Originally posted by LarryOne
Guys I find this latest discussion trend very silly. Who the fuck cares about # when we are talking professional chicks (TGs) here (do you keep track of all the supersized McDonalds meals that you did buy too).

To Zeldas defense it is an adult playland and we are here to hit as much possible puz in the shortest amount of time "the 3fs".

You might kick my ass for this comment but stay real. It is not really a competition and pay for play does not count - PERIOD!!

(I am very drunk while writing this message so please excuse mispellings).

07-05-02, 20:15
Pack's Perfect Hooker Regimen:

1) generates her own lubrication (or at least applies the KY when you're NOT looking) upon excitement.

2) doesn't bleed after or during intercourse (ran into a bleeder today). I felt bad about it... as she had to go home after one round. 1,000 for her, 900 for the MP and 500 tip from Pack... and probably 2-3 missed days of work now. :(

if she can take care of those two things, then I'll take care of the rest. (looks, nice body, and nice smell of course are givens that don't need to be mentioned)


Apac Boy
07-06-02, 08:30
gawd..i hate bleeders too...why do you think God gave women mouths???

oh, i read this in another forum but i thought it was pretty funny..
instead of 3F's, it's FFF-IPF
Find em, Fuck em, Forget em, If Possible...Free...


oh..it looks like i'm really going to be in BKK for x-mas...i'm whoring up the cash right now...gonna raise Thailand's GDP all by myself by 5%....

07-06-02, 08:56
I wish I could go over before March but I used all of my vacation time for Europe as well as a chunk of my cards. I understand that December is a good time there. Is that true? Please excuse my newbieness but where do the little faces come from?

On The Road
07-06-02, 13:55
Well, just my two little cents about age limit for prostitution in LOS.
I found this on the official Tourism Authority of Thailand website.
The address is: http://www.tat.or.th/visitor/child_pros.htm you can check it out.
This is the text:

Welcome to the Tourism Authority of Thailand's Website. We appreciate your interest in Thailand and in our efforts to eradicate the prostitution of children.


In April 1996, the Royal Thai Government of Thailand passed stringent anti-prostitution laws with the most severe penalties reserved for those involved in child prostitution. Now customers, procurers, brothel owners, those who force children into prostitution and even parents, face long prison sentences as well as large fines. The penalties under Thailand's new Prostitution Prevention and Suppression Act are as follows:

2-6 years jail if prostitutes are under 15 years old
0-3 years jail if prostitutes are between 15 and 18 years old

1-10 years jail if prostitutes are over 18 years old
5-15 years jail if prostitutes are between 15 and 18 years old
10-20 years jail if prostitutes are under 15 years old

Venue Owners:
0-15 years jail if prostitutes are over 18 years old
5-15 years jail if prostitutes are between 15 and 18 years old
10-20 years jail if prostitutes are under 15 years old

4-20 years jail if prostitutes are under 18 years old

Those who force or torture others into prostitution:
1-20 years jail
Life sentence if prostitutes are seriously injured
Death penalty if prostitutes are killed


So, age limit IS 18 y.o.!


Joe Zop
07-06-02, 15:32
A couple of interesting things to look at in terms of price are these pricing engines:



Obviously, everyone has their own approach and opinion, but these provide a kind of baseline, and the latter has been around long enough to have a fair sampling.

07-06-02, 16:52
On pricing:

there is no objective indicator of how much is a fair price. It is supply and demand. Both are influenced by many factors, one of which being how you look and how much the girl like you.

There are numerous reports of guys getting it for free. It even happened to me a few times !

Another factor is how much you want to bargain, and how much you really want that girl, instead of any of the 750 around at that time.

I have no doubt that 500 baht will do for a freelancer, especially later in the evening.

In the old days (7-8 years ago) I paid 500 baht per day for a girl to stay with me in Samui, and that was considered a good deal by both parties. Nowadays, it is rather 1,000, and still a good deal.

Ultimately, it is little money we are talking about, and not worth fighting for it so much.

On what to do:
with your Thai girl when you are not bonking her, it is true that it is not a good idea to bring her to a fancy restaurant. She will feel out of place and you will not enjoy it either. Still, spending time with her is a nice part of this hobby too. These girls do have a nice personality, that it is fun to explore. And for the cynically-minded among us, as you do, she will feel more relaxed with you, and that will make the sex even better. Actually, I envy those who can converse with them in Thai, since the language is a big barrier to me.

07-06-02, 18:14
best to ask the girl about what she might not be comfortable with. in other words... don't pull this surprise dream date stuff that you would do with a western girl.

I've had some working girls (on the super rare occasion that I'll take one out) comfortable in nicer restaurants (even expecting it) and some completely uncomfortable (not knowing how to act, talking a bit too loudly or too much... you know how it is, or even just feeling uneasy because a nicer restaurant might be filled with 'her customers' or perhaps part time boyfriends).

i'm amazed at how easily some country girls develop a taste for city life and possess some rather expensive bongles (genuine LVs, Omegas, etc) and bangles.... yet cannot dig their way out of the typical 200-300 k Baht family debt. I've yet to see active working girl with a nice car... but I've seen many that are 'retired' (until they break up with hia or sia ____ ) that have nice late model imported cars (which is one reason why Ratchadaphisek is filled with used car lots/tents).

go figure.


Originally posted by Seydlitz
On pricing:


On what to do:
with your Thai girl when you are not bonking her, it is true that it is not a good idea to bring her to a fancy restaurant. She will feel out of place and you will not enjoy it either. Still, spending time with her is a nice part of this hobby too. These girls do have a nice personality, that it is fun to explore. And for the cynically-minded among us, as you do, she will feel more relaxed with you, and that will make the sex even better. Actually, I envy those who can converse with them in Thai, since the language is a big barrier to me.

Apac Boy
07-06-02, 18:25
take a look at the thailand girls pics on this website....now come on...i'm sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but some of those girls are pretty nasty. Either this guy is blind or they're cheap.
Gosh, I hope it wasn't submitted by any of you guys...I'm not saying ALL of the pics are nasty...I said some....

zelda, scroll down the page...u know the number :)


07-06-02, 19:13

I understand what you say, and I agree.

My point is rather that Thailand is not cheap on its own, it is only cheap for us, because we have high-price-country income that we spend in a low-price-country.

Working girls in Thailand get the same level of income that high-price hookers get in those places frequented by rich people (Monaco, etc.)

In Thailand, we are the rich guys. Our spending power is hugely higher than at home. And not just on girls. Food, accomodation, transport, etc. are very cheap to us.

I know that 500 baht is more than fair. Since my shopping policy is to keep a girl with me for a long period, I might not be that far of on a per-shot basis. And when I indulge in a soapie or a B-course, I buy for a very reasonable amout of money something that is just not available at home. Even if 2,500 baht appears to be a lot of money compared to the 500 baht that is our baseline in this debate.

In the past I have been on vacations that were far more expensive all counted than my typical Thai budget, and sex was not even on the menu. I suppose that if I was a resident in LOS, I would devote more attention to how much I have to pay to get what I want. As it is, I am on holidays, and the little extra I pay is relatively insignificant as long as I get value for money.

07-06-02, 21:02
Thanx Freeler;
Gee, all them instructions which like any proper macho American male I never even saw before. Also thanx for the reassurance about March altho I do hate to have to wait and go to work day after day until clear out there until March but c'est la vie.
My feeling about treating pros especially nice (I'm not talking about paying more money) is that we treat them to dinner and such because we get to feel better when treating a woman, even a hooker, the way we like to treat a woman. It is done for our satisfaction more than theirs but that's OK and hopefully they enjoy it too. Everyone is entitled to a few nice extras in life, even hookers.

Joe Zop
07-06-02, 21:44
Amen, Najene -- the bottom line is it has to do with what I like and want to do, nothing else. Z can be Z and I can be me.

07-06-02, 21:46
I personally would prefer to be sitting across the dinner table from an attractive woman than an empty chair or another horny hanging dick like myself. No disrespect meant fellas but as scintillating as your conversation may be I doubt if any of you would make an attractive table decoration. Unfortunately the language barrier would seriously detract from the enjoyment of the company of Thai hookers.
Check your historical perspective. Prostitutes have a long tradition of being paid to be more than just a quick fuck but rather companions to lonely men. In many more enlightened cultures prostitutes were well educated in order to be able to provide cultured entertainment to their gentlemen clients. Some of these women have had real political and economic power. Thailand was probably one of these when it was still Siam. It is very likely that male insecurities contributed greatly to the deterioration of the position of prostitution as well as the tremendous influence of our Puritan-based American prejudices which we have freely exported along with Coca-Cola and MacDonalds. By the way, I have never had a Happy Meal of any size.

Joe Zop
07-07-02, 15:17
Well, Z, I see that since Jackson chopped all of your posts out of the archives you've decided to repeat them verbatim here again. Do you have them all stored somewhere so you can just cut and paste? Though the addition of Soldier of Fortune is a small bit of additional color.

Addled is truly what you are if you think Jackson's going to go from banning to hiring you. A rash gets a lot of attention but we don't mistake it for a good thing. And straight personal attacks on individuals here are not likely to endear you to our host, either.

And I see you still can't read and feel the need to project your own misinterpretations into things -- I don't see anywhere that Najene said anything about what Thai hookers do or don't like. He was talking about what he likes, which is all that matters in the equation. The fact that it happens to be different or more inclusive than what you consider the absolute only acceptable approach is irrelevant.

Apac Boy
07-07-02, 19:09
joe, he can't read...
as adlez can't find a job in his own country and have to goto a 3rd world like thailand to find one, i'm sure his reading skills are a lil bit slow...let's give him a break..

oh wait, i just thought of something...he couldn't even find a job in Bangkok...he had to goto the poorest of the poor parts of thailand, issan.....


Joe Zop
07-07-02, 20:10
You're right, Tap -- he certainly didn't pick up on your sarcasm in the Pattaya post, but I still recall those few intermittant lucid and well-reasoned posts he made in the old forum and keep hoping...

07-07-02, 21:12
Joe's right. Many of Adle's post are lucid and often helpful. He said it himself when he referred to the responses. It is about the negative attention. He does, however, appear to have an issue with women. What is also interesting is to see that you guys genuinely care about Adle.
About my previous post, true, it is all about what I want. Prostitution is, of course, all about what we want. It is fantasy, play love with a real physical sexual payoff. This is enhanced when we can do some "dress-up" like going out to dinner or to a beach as in Brazil. If the woman does happen to enjoy it or gives a believable appearance of doing so, then we are validated somehow. This magic is what makes it different from buying a cheap steak from Safeway, heating it to 98.6 and masturbating with it. That and that the women are prettier than the beefsteak.

07-07-02, 21:48
I was just checking out other areas in WSG. This appears to be the most interactive, tight knit site. This is a virtual community.

07-07-02, 22:35
Skinless: Some simple answers to your questions without the side stuff. A good decnet chain of massage joints is FootJoy. They have about 4 of them now around the tourist hotels. The foot massages are cheap and they will make you cry they go so deep. They also do traditional Thai and also oil Eruopean. All without a hint of sex and thus quite cheap. The ultimate massage is to go to Wat Po (the temple) and get a msaage at the school there. This is supposed to be the historical massage center for all of Thailand and they are amazing. Be prepared that a Thai massage eventually makes you feel wonderful but when they put your foot on top of your head and then walk on your thigh you might experience a bit of discomfort. LOL. Enjoy it. What most of us find out though is after a relaxing massage thai or traditional european we want a little tug to finish off with. Hence a rub and a tug.

07-07-02, 23:51
Damn...Every time I surf on to this Board, it appears to be
a Z vs the Room dialog. Z seems to pretty much have a
scorched earth policy toward women and I suspect that his
interest & intent is to keep the pussy rates as low as possible and, to that end, it means keeping the talent as downtrodden and humbled as is possible. That doesn't work though because most men are not into treating women like yard dogs..regardless of their line of work.

The dude needs a checkup from the neck up.

07-08-02, 01:24
Thank you November. 'tis so true that we are not all the barbaric oppressors.
I can see that what I need to add to my itinerary is a massage. I am a bit unsure about what that means in Thailand. Are the types of massage parlors varied as it appears they are from what little I've read? Could someone please fill me in a bit?

07-08-02, 04:18
I have anudder qvestion.
I have a camcorder and tripod. as well as my still camera. Yes, I am that kind of freak, film 'em in the saddle. From what you've said about modesty would the the camcorder and tripod be just wasted weight to carry. I never got chance to use it in Europe.

Joe Zop
07-08-02, 04:40
Skinless, you definitely have my unabashed envy; I'd love to be over there sooner than I'm going to manage. I've begun getting my fall trip in order, which is more complicated than I'm used to as I'm trying to manage to stay for a full three months (and people keep trying to give me money not to :) ) Since you're planning to run up to the Chiang Mai area, I'll look forward to your reports from there as I've been reading in various places that the scene has changed a bit since I was there last year.

I know there was a crackdown at Pantip Plaza but last thing I heard was that you could still get bootlegs, they were just a bit less obvious about it.

Najene, there are certainly folks who've managed to do filming but it's one of those things where YMMV. It's generally a bit tougher in Thailand than some other places but it depends on what combination of charm, persuasiveness and baht you bring to the table, as well as the TG involved.

07-08-02, 04:51
I don't have that much faith in my charm. I'll probably leave them behind and just bring my still camera. Maybe I'll have better luck when I go to Brazil.

07-08-02, 06:15
Hey Najene,

About your post of a couple days ago... I don't think we can lay the blame of different roles for the working girl and her fall from grace at the feet of "American puritanism". I feel that Christianity in general and Catholasism specifically need to shoulder most of the blame.

The camera thing never came up, as I am the last person in the world that I want to see naked on tape !


07-08-02, 06:36
As much as I like to philosophize and yearn for a soapbox, that is heading down a path which is not wise to tread here. As for the camera, I enjoy it as long as nobody else sees my fish-belly white, slightly over-weight and definitely over-age bod but me. It gives me the opportunity to revisit some pleasurable moments

Apac Boy
07-08-02, 07:29
haha....i envy adlez's life as much as i envy a TG getting ready to get pounded by an old 300lb gurilla. bottom line...you rather be you cause you don't know how it feels to be somebody else. you're stuck in a 3rd world country, worse yet..u'r prob living paycheck to paycheck...hence the great cheap 150BHT fucks that you always brag about. can't pay more than that when u don't make more than the girls ur fucking....


07-08-02, 08:02
Hey Tapioca;
Don't play his game. He's the one in pain, striking out at anyone in range. He also looks for easy targets and if he thinks he may be scoring he'll keep on firing.
That's true about the TGs. They deserve at least some gentle treatment for the life they lead. Many judgemental assholes think that these girls take on all comers because they enjoy getting banged by 20 or more sweaty stinking strangers every night for near to nothing. Although the really smart ones with tremendous looks can get ahead pretty well, what about the majority? This is not a seller's market out there.

07-08-02, 12:38

I will be in LOS from next week for a month. I plan to spend five days or so in BKK for R&R, and then head north for some serious tourism. Sukothai is on my list, as well as several national parks.

Surprisingly, I have been in Thailand regularly for many years, but there are huge portions of the country that I have ignored so far. Since I have time, I decided to see some of that too.

Then I'll head south to Krabi, Samui and / or Phuket. But my agenda is fully flexible and I plan to use the A/C bus network rather than airlines this time, in order to see more of the country.

If the old hands have suggestions on what to see and what to do, I'd gladly take their advice.

If some of you are in BKK in the 17-21 July timeframe, I would be happy to meet you for a beer or so.

07-08-02, 13:57

thanks for the tips. I really need to study those guidebooks that have been gathering dust on my bookshelf for so long.

I am not all that much into archeology, you see. Ethnology rather is my field. My favorite topic is the behavioral and interpersonal skills of the Thai BG.

Still I find a lot of charm to those once proud old stones half-swallowed by the jungle.

And the spectacle of nature in its prime is great too (waterfalls, etc.)

07-08-02, 18:13
Well, I think you can apply camcorder "rates" to the Thai underground porn industry. The girls get 5,000-15,000+ per film (which would mean 2-3 scenes). So let's just say 5,000 if you convince the girl (it make take a lot or a little time depending on your persuasion skills).

Um, one thing though... you won't find girls trying to break into the porn industry here (as opposed to say, America). They are usually recruited into it. So there will be a lack of excitement (because of the stigma of being on film, on record, "officially being a working girl") that might be a drag on the girl's performance. The porn filmers here usually counter this with recreation drugs to help the girls along....

And we probably don't need to stress that it's not recommended for a falang to do the same thing by even going near narcotics.

You might wake up at Bang Kwang prison with a condom on and losing your wallet at 7-11 or something. haha.


Originally posted by najene
I have anudder qvestion.
I have a camcorder and tripod. as well as my still camera. Yes, I am that kind of freak, film 'em in the saddle. From what you've said about modesty would the the camcorder and tripod be just wasted weight to carry. I never got chance to use it in Europe.

07-09-02, 06:26
A man once said, " I spent 40 years looking for the perfect woman and finally I found her" His friend asked him, " Then why are you still alone?" He replied, "Alas, she was looking for the perfect man."

Thanx Pack. I certainly don't want to go anywhere near the drugs, I don't have the bucks and jail doesn't appeal to me. I will take my still camera. I might be able to charm a girl into some nude shots for the photo gallery.

07-09-02, 23:49

I have to agree with Freeler on the bus. Long pain in the ass. I did the train from Hua Hin all the way to Singapore. A blast ! Upgrade to a first class seat. Hitting Ko Samui from the rail line is easy, but depending on what you're into, Samui may be a disappointment. I hear it's getting over run by Katoeys, plus the diving is not great. Phuket is very pleasant, good nightlife (BG's) and good diving/snorkeling. I'll be looking for your report on Krabi, haven't been there yet, but want to.


Stills have never been a problem in either BKK or AC.


Amen on the same ole same ole....


Joe Zop
07-10-02, 02:44
Interesting question, Z. Intriguing on a couple of levels.

First, I've been following the changes in exchange rate as well, since I've been planning for fall and want to make sure I've got sufficient coin squirrelled away. It all seems, from what I've seen, to pretty well be within the normal swing of things over the past several years. Two years ago it was pretty close to right about here, and even slightly lower. I think it was in the mid-30's in 97, if I recall, so from my perspective there doesn't seem much cause for alarm. I was looking a while back in the archives in the Thailand area, and in one from 1996 it's noted that the exchange rate at 25baht/1dollar and drinks are 65baht, bar fine 300 to 400, ST 500-1500, and LT 1000-2000. So things were much more expensive a few years ago, and it certainly didn't stop anybody.

Personally, I'd still go because I like the country and the people, and it's what I want to explore more right now. (In two years that might be different.) Even if things get to the level you describe, it's still cheaper than lots of other places. I might adjust my activities somewhat (bargain more, be even more selective) but I'd still be a rich farang, even at those rates. That said, there are also other places I'd go as well and some are definitely getting less expensive as the exchange rates shift -- Brazil, for example, is great right now in terms of exchange -- so it would depend on my overall mood and agenda.

I'd also expect, as things do, that if prices got to the point where they seemed to high and scared off tourists, punters included, things would adjust accordingly.

Apac Boy
07-10-02, 03:49
maybe it's time to buy up some baht and save it until x-mas.
who knows what it'll be then...


07-10-02, 06:18
Hi Everyone! I am planning a trip to Pattaya this November and I was wondering if anyone of you had any experiences with using a digital camera/camcorder on a girl while you guys are both in bed (doing it) or If she might let you take naked pictures of her. If any of you had done/experience this please let me know where is the best place to get these girls, the process of asking them into taking pictures, and the going rates that I should pay.. Any info will be treatly appreciated. Thanks

07-10-02, 07:03
Those planning to travel to Thailand and worried about the decline of the baht against the dollar might want to buy some traveler's checks denominated in Euros. American Express sells 'em.

Apac Boy
07-10-02, 07:16
just wanted to say it's my b-day...can somebody please fedex a tg over for my present?

i'll return her after i'm done with her


07-10-02, 07:42
Happy Birthday Tapioca!

07-10-02, 08:52
On going South:

Thanks for the opinions. I will probably take the train, unless I fly, of course. The first time I went to Samui, I had to fly Thai to Surat Thani because BKK Airways was overbooked. The bus ride to Donsak and the ferry crossing were fun, but that makes hell of a long journey on top of the long haul flight. Fron then on, I stopped over in BKK for R&R.

On currency matters:

Over the years, Thailand has become more expensive. I remember beers at 25 baht, barfines in Patpong at 200. Currency rates have gone up and down, but on the whole a Thai vacation is still very affordable. And some of what there is on sale in the LOS is difficult to buy elsewhere.

I find it difficult to imagine that I would stop traveling to Thailand due to it being too expensive.

07-10-02, 10:08
The dolla will continue to tumble as long as the economy in the us continues to tumble. On the other hand i wouldn't worry about things that we are unable to control.
Go to LOS, have a good time, and if it cost you A few extra bucks so what. Where else in the world, can you go have so much fun for so less money?

07-10-02, 18:00
I too think hitting Koh Samui from the rail line is easy... but let's note that easy in this case is a 2+ hour ferry ride to the island. Yes, it's usually in nice weather and blue water all around. But that's 2 hours nonetheless and the boat is often full of backpackers.

If I go anywhere in the LOS, I just fly (to avoid the night time highways and UFOs.... those buses and trucks rigged with 500+ extra lightbulbs).


Originally posted by Firedick

I have to agree with Freeler on the bus. Long pain in the ass. I did the train from Hua Hin all the way to Singapore. A blast ! Upgrade to a first class seat. Hitting Ko Samui from the rail line is easy, but depending on what you're into, Samui may be a disappointment. I hear it's getting over run by Katoeys, plus the



Stills have never been a problem in either BKK or AC.


Amen on the same ole same ole....


07-11-02, 00:18

I use the pic's I take to decorate the inside of my locker door at work. It drives the poor married guys nuts ! I stay out of the pic's myself.

But...Asian Pimp, did you bother to read previous posts ? Your question has been asked and answered more than once.


I haven't noticed a tumbling economy here in the states. But it would still take a major depression to keep me from traveling to Asia and chasing bar girls. What am I going to do, chase shut up L.A. girls ? I don't think so....


You must be kinda old. :) I remember 30 baht beers and 500 b barfines from Patpong, but at that time, I was making about a third of what I make now. Everything seems very relative.

We're just a lucky bunch of mongers !


Happy birthday. Send me your email address and I'll send you some jpegs that may help with the baby oil !!!


Apac Boy
07-11-02, 07:12
woot! i'll live my life thru firedick...

sad sad day...gawd...turning 27 sux...it's like i'm gonna be 30 in like 3 years...fuck..30?!?!?


07-11-02, 09:58
Well, I just learned my next trip may turn out to be Brazil and then Thailand later. Brazilian chicks turn me on. I think it's that "oiee" sound they make. If so, I will still be getting to Thailand as soon as I can afford the next trip. We'll see how it turns out. In the meantime I'm getting a lot of good info and enoying the interactions here. I feel as though I've found a home on the web.

By the way, I scan them into my computer. That way I can put them into my "My Pictures Screensaver" and have a masturbatory slide show.

Make the most of the next 30 years. It's really hard to play "catch-up" later.

Apac Boy
07-11-02, 18:49
i agree with freeler...give me a 20bht pad thai on the street anyday...

take lots of pics...i'll trade u tg pics for brazilian girl pics...i'll trade u some right now if u want...


07-11-02, 23:25
Hey Freeler;
I ain't lost. I just may change my schedule and delay my trip to Thailand by a few months. That is not certain yet anyhoo. I have a chance to get an equivalent airfare and some $ breaks on a Brazilian trip first. Also, I hope that this won't hurt anyone's feelings but I have a serious case of the hots for Brazilian womeen. As I said, I think it is that little sound they make, oyee. I'm definitely not leaving the site. I enjoy it here too much.

07-11-02, 23:26
Hey Freeler;
I ain't lost. I just may change my schedule and delay my trip to Thailand by a few months. That is not certain yet anyhoo. I may have a chance to get an equivalent airfare and some $ breaks on a Brazilian trip first. Also, I hope that this won't hurt anyone's feelings but I have a serious case of the hots for Brazilian women. As I said, I think it is that little sound they make, "oyee". I'm definitely not leaving the site. I enjoy it here too much.

By the way on the Rio page someone has put an anti-prostitution post, I wouldn't be surprised if he does it here too.

07-12-02, 01:19
I must admit a strong curiosity about Brazil myself. It will be interesting to hear Najenes posts after comparing the two.

Is the food there as bad as it is in Cambodia ? I was not impressed with the food (or the p-tang) in Costa Rica either.

Hey Tap,

Don't feel too sorry for yourself. Most of the guys here would give up a nut to be 27 again ! Also, as freeler points out, it's still good ! I'm 46 and still good for 2-3 a day. Plus, the more experience you get, the less bullshit you half to sift through. Shit...in retrospect, I think my sex life now is better than when I was 27 !

I will try to get to the jpg's tonight, just a little busy right now.


Joe Zop
07-12-02, 04:14
Najene, you'll get no argument from me that Brazilian women can be hot (as well as Columbian, among many others from the region.) Two trips is definitely better than one! Viva la difference, but just remember that people aren't nuts about Thailand for nothing.

07-12-02, 07:55
As I said before, this change is not certain. It is all contingent on $$$. The reports I am getting from Rio are a bit more pricey than previously. Either way I intend to have fun on my next vacation. If I do go to Thailand I'll have the advantage of maybe hooking up with one of you for drinks so that is a plus for Thailand.

07-13-02, 02:11
come on Naj... just hop on a plane. : ) pretend like you're 21/22 and fresh out of college. the world is yours to conquer. don't take Viagra too many days in a row.

on a Thai woman note... played some golf yesterday, had dinner at the Nathong (in Huay Kwang) then headed for a B course at Emm. Good stuff as always... but one thing that struck me (and it's happened 2-3 times now), after the deed, me and the girl are watching TV. Soap opera ad comes up (with the times that it will be showing and the name of the soap opera), and the girl (who is leaning on my stomach asks if I can read the screen for her (she can't read, even though she looks like a typical hi-so undergrad from ABAC or Bangkok U). Usually, I am a bit prejudiced and think that most of the illiterate girls are working the tourist side of the biz.... and that these "high class girls" are something else (like part time students... which in reality very very few are).

And then here's the occasional reminder that even Pack deludes himself and succombs to the illusion.

....anyone here know of a silagra source in BKK? i'd hate to have to fly to India to get it. :)

07-13-02, 04:00
Hey Pack;
That would take some serious imagination. Anyway, I am stuck anyway until March. No time, no money until then.

Joe Zop
07-14-02, 14:12
1. It does vary a small bit, but not enough to get excited about. The airport gives very fair rates.
2. Based on your past postings, no.
3. You've already done them, I think. You could always do the No Hands Restaurant simply to have done it, I suppose.
4. Agree with Freeler. In fact, if you're expecting a truly hot scene don't go to Chiang Mai either. (Though if you want the bizarre I suppose you could try the "Love Cafes" up along Chotana, if you're careful. More very seedy than bizarre, though.)
5. Be up-front about what you want and you're less likely to be disappointed. The bb part is the trickiest, just because of general availability.
6. Shouldn't be hard to have a helluva time. And India's a very different scene than Thailand -- generally either much seedier and disappointing or far pricier.
8. If you don't hit your target, it won't be because of lack of available women.

Joe Zop
07-14-02, 17:00
Eden is for if you want to make believe you're a porn star in a threesome and completely control the action. You'll not find stunners here, nor women new to the business.

Chotana -- basically run-down places north of town, mainly frequented by Thais, but farangs can go as well. As far as being careful -- have heard there are a couple of competing groups up there, with some of them being under the "protection" or run by the military/police, some not. Rumor has it that there are occasional shake-downs, but I've always heard farangs are not hassled. Also just a bit dicier area of town. Really, most of the action (other than massage parlors or Love Cafes) is down either by the night market or in the general region of Tha Phrae gate. Again, the Chiang Mai scene is very different than Bangkok or Pattaya, slower and quieter, with many of the women more actively thinking about longer-term relationships.

As far as HIV -- well, be careful of that everywhere :) but STD rates in northern Thailand, which used to be abysmal, have dropped a fair amount. AIDS is now the #1 cause of death in Thailand (or so says the Deputy Health Minister) though that's mostly because it's untreated in most cases and those who were infected at the start of the epidemic are getting sick. The actual infection rates there have dropped for all STDs, HIV/AIDS included, over the past several years due to aggressive campaigns to promote condom use. Last stats I read (from 2000) said brothel-based women had an 18.5% positive rate, and that overall the problem is actually now worse outside of Bankok, though there's been massive improvement overall.

Apac Boy
07-14-02, 19:33
i think u should only change a lil bit at the airport skinless...do the bulk on one of the exchange rate places on sukhumvit...difference might be a lil bit...but if u chance a lot...that's a barfine and s/t difference...


07-15-02, 01:52
are speedos mandatory? i can cover the other requisites. me in speedos would give new meaning to the title, "ugly american"

07-15-02, 01:58
originally posted by najene
are speedos mandatory? i can cover the other requisites.

you rang?

07-20-02, 08:52
Need some advice from you guys.
Where can I buy silagra or any other viagra-copy in Thailand?
If anyone has a place in ChiangMai, better. Dont want to travel south.


07-20-02, 10:04
What sorts of "bizarre" sex??
What are these no hands places and what are sex cafes about?
ps- if you are spending say 2 wks in thailand.. keeping a modest budget.. IE $20 hotel and maybe a s/t and an overnight girl a day most days (and dont drink booze) What would you estimate you would spend? Ballpark..

Joe Zop
07-20-02, 15:06
sexxx69: Regarding budget -- prices do shift a bit by place, so keep that in mind. Pattaya is going to be cheaper than Bangkok, for example. You should also keep in mind that everyone has a somewhat different approach to things in terms of bargaining, and that things vary depending on whether you're going to frequent go-gos, discos, beer bars, etc. That sad, here's a whack at it --

One ST and one LT girl a day -- figure 1500-2000baht if you're somewhat selective and bargain. (Add another 500-1000 if you're not.) Means $35-50 plus potentially $12-25.

Food/drinks (non-alcohol) -- say, 500baht a day, though you can definitely do it for quite a bit less.

Add on your hotel estimate, and you're looking at around $1100 or so for two weeks. This can move up or down depending on where you are and your wants -- this doesn't include any shopping, tourist stuff or local travel costs, and if you decide you want to do the No-Hands trip or use massage parlors then your costs go up. I usually figure around $100-125 a day if I'm out not to think much about it and have a good time, with that being high in some cases and low in others, but kind of averaging out. My budget for my trip this fall is about $70/day, which is likely much more than I'll end up spending, but my lodging costs are lower because I'm outside of Bangkok and renting longer-term, and will be more low-key on my sanuking.

I'd be curious to hear others' estimates as well.

07-20-02, 15:54
Very cool of you to break it down for me.
Whats the no hands thing??
I'm a pretty frugle guy at home but on vacation while being cost concious... i like to also not stress about it. Just be comfortable reasonable but carefree. I'm thinking a few days in BK to check the scene out then most of the time in pattaya, maybe phuket a few days. Also wouldnt mind a quick trip to PP and angkor wat if time allows. I imagine most men drop a lot on the booze end of it but for me it will just be a couple drinks for the girls and a few cheap souvaniers. I dont need to spend a lot of time in gogo bars unless i cant get babes anywhere else. I cant bring myself to do ugly chicks but a cute sweet 7 or 8 will do. I've seen airfares in the $630 range from LAX.
Anyone else have something to consider?
ps- I hear you can have a tailor made suit there... any idea on the cost? Also, can you put big ticket items like hotel, a suit etc on the ol'american express card there?

Joe Zop
07-20-02, 18:14
The No-Hands restaurant is basically a place where women feed you while you're able to have your hands be busy with them. You have the option of having sex with them after the meal is over. I've never gone to one as the whole thing doesn't really appeal to me, and I've heard guys say it's really not all that great for the price you're paying. But one man's ceiling is another man's floor.

As far as suits -- yes, absolutely, there are tons of tailors all over the place, and you can get some excellent work done. Jackson used to post a link to his favorite in the Thailand section -- might still be in the archives. Costs have a really wide range, but you can get quality work done pretty cheaply by western standards. Be aware that like anything else, it's negotiable and you need to be clear about exactly what you're getting (how many fittings, what extras, etc.) and how much it's going to cost. Be careful to clearly settle, if you add on some shirts for example, on the cost of everything so there are no surprises. If you're in Bangkok you'll find tailors all over the Sukhumvit area, and it's really easy to do a net search and find tons of Thai tailors, as lots of them have sites.

American Express is simply not the best choice -- I'd say the majority of places don't take it, though some do. Probably still worth taking it along, but Visa/MC is pretty universal, so that's more what you'd use, and no, there's no problem putting bigger ticket things on cards pretty much anywhere.

As far as drinks -- in a lot of the girl-oriented places and certainly in the go-gos, you're going to end up being charged close to regular drink prices no matter whether you're drinking alcohol or not, and they'll still push you to drink. That's how they make money, in addition to bar fines, so be aware of that. And I should note that I basically included low bar fines in my estimates, but that those also vary -- from a couple hundred baht to 600 or so in some places, so be aware of the total ticket when you're looking at making your companionship choices. If you read through the forum and archives you'll see some examples, and I believe I posted a link a while ago which has a database of what various punters pay at various Bangkok bars.

In terms of ugly versus high quality looks, well, that's a matter of wide opinion. I never have trouble finding women I think are very beautiful, but there are other folks who feel that there are only a few really attractive girls around. Whatever floats your boat, but I'd be willing to bet that as a first-time visitor you'll probably find the selection amazing, and that your problem will more be that of feeling like the proverbial kid in a candy store than a sense of tired disappointment. That tends to be the case, I think, almost wherever you go -- first time there you see the positives, later times you're more likely to find the flaws.

Other things? If you've only got two weeks, I'd not try to do too much in terms of directly planning to go to too many places. It's very easy to make your mind up to go somewhere the next day and arrange it, as opposed to being in the states where that's going to cost you three times as much. It's easy enough to just show up and find places to stay, or get into a cyber-cafe and make an online reservation, as opposed to having everything all planned out in advance and then wishing you had more flexibility. That way if you decide you want to stay longer in any particular place it's an easy thing to do. Just figure out in advance where you might like to see and stay, and then kind of wing it. Last time I was there, I got a two-night reservation at a place in Bangkok, and then made the rest up as I went along. On my upcoming trip, where I'm staying a couple of months, I'm doing the same, including setting up my base camp in Chiang Mai by just getting an overnight place to stay and then looking at various places for longer stays. (Even though I pretty well know the places I'm going to choose, I prefer to actually see things with my eyes as opposed to absolutely contracting first, as I've been unhappily surprised in various places. I also want the option of just arriving whenever I feel like it.)

Just budget a bit high even within your frugal context, indulge yourself if you feel like it, don't worry if you overspend a bit here or there because it's still amazingly cheap for what you're getting, (face it, if you were making a two-week trip to, say, NYC, you'd expect to pay more than your total Thailand trip just for a place to stay.) Understand that you're still rich compared to most everyone you're dealing with, and always remember that just about any price is negotiable and that no one gets insulted by attempts to bargain as long as you're in the general ballpark of going rates, as that's just the way it's done.

07-20-02, 21:03
I have found that I am only satisfied with 1 of 4 long-time girls I bring home in Bangkok. At 2000+ baht per girl, I blow 8000 baht to find a good one with my odds. I speak basic Thai and really try to pick carefully. Yes, 3 of 4 times I am disappointed.

The poo-ying that have fallen in the 75% disappointment range have failed due to poor services rendered. Girls that go "starfish" (lie there, egs spread like a starfish with as must animation as a starfish), are not interactive and very quiet, make it obvious they don't want to get it on are failures. I realize that in general, these girls don't want to screw us, they just want the money. But I expect some semblance of acting so I can kid myself into thinking she doesn't mind it (or maybe even likes it).

The performance range on these girls is great as the experienced of you should know. At one extreme, they will jump your bones moments after getting the door. At the other extreme, they will lie there, legs together, making one feel that one would have to force oneself on them.

There are also the rarer kinds of failures, such as a gal I met whose face morphed into something scary once she was out of the bar in stronger light. I felt obligated to go through with the festivities (mistake). In my room she was fun with a surprisingly nice body. But her refusal to take a pre-hump shower combined with a particularly stanky pussy (stanky pussy in Thailand is rare which made encountering this gal's stink-pot particularly offensive), and her surprise scary face just blew it all.

I am interested to know what the "satisfaction rate" is among those of you over 35 years old who have sampled 10 or more girls that they have spent all night with.



07-21-02, 12:51
Thanks joe You seem to see it the exact same way i do... point by point. I am wondering though, do i need a visa prior to flying t0 the philip.??
also,you say fly to BK then to manila and back... Whats it cost to get to AC and Cebu (sp)?

07-21-02, 13:17

I find your 1 in 4 raterather pessimistic. It is true that we all have experienced the consequences of a poor choice, but my own assessment would be the opposite: 3 out of 4 experiences are positive. I mean that I was happy with the performance and that I paid the girl with a smile, not necessarily that she gave me the best paid sex ever.

One essential thing to do is to build an undesrtanding with the girl before you take her out. Let her know what you want in as much detail as possible. They have heard it all anyway. If she knows what you expect, then there is no excuse for behaving poorly afterwards.

And in any case, there is no reason to reward sloppy service. No honey, no money, or the bare minimum. Let's not forget that to a large extend it is a buyer's market. We pay, therefore we call the shots.

Joe Zop
07-21-02, 15:25
Sexxx69 -- my understanding is that you don't need a visa to the Philippines as long as you're not staying longer than three weeks, and that you can extend it there if needed. When I last looked, Bangkok to Manila was in the $300 range via Thai Air, but it's been a while since I checked. Sorry, I don't know enough to give advice on the Philippines or AC or Cebu -- never done that trip, though I've considered it.

07-22-02, 06:08
The cheapest air fare I have seen so far out of LAX is $688.00 including tax. This is standard fare for Philippine airlines if you book at least 2 months in advance. I did. The same flight I am flying on next month is now selling for $2000.00 rt.

07-23-02, 05:26

With my most sincere apologisies, I've been away, with computer problems. Still need some jpgs to get you through your slump ?

Joezop is right,

No need for visa to the R.P. if 21 days or less, plus extentsion is easy once in country.


I, too, find your numbers to be pessimistic. I am 46 yo, slightly overweight and still find satisfaction rates at well over 50%. Closer to 75% to 85%. Perhaps there is something that you are not telling us.

Your post did crack me up in one way, we had a girl in Angeles that we called the "starfish". She was the only one in town who didn't know why.

Skinless... don't give up yet ! Yes, this board is experiencing a downturn. But things are cyclicle. "*****s" will come and go, but guys like you and I helping each other (and all the other poor dumbfucks out there) should not change. I must ask forgiveness though, cuz I have sat on on the sidelines and let guys like you, Joezop, Seydlitz and others shoulder the burden. Hang on man, suck it up ! I promise to do my share !

Sorry, that's all I've got for now. I'm through my 2nd bottle of Pinot Grigio and am not thinking quite right.



07-23-02, 05:59
Originally posted by Firedick


I, too, find your numbers to be pessimistic. I am 46 yo, slightly overweight and still find satisfaction rates at well over 50%. Closer to 75% to 85%. Perhaps there is something that you are not telling us.

Your post did crack me up in one way, we had a girl in Angeles that we called the "starfish". She was the only one in town who didn't know why.


Firey Dick,

Something I'm not telling you? Not in this regard. You, joe-zop, and many others simply please more easily than I do. If "Feet at the bottom pussy at the top" was my sole criteria for a satisfying encounter, my satisfaction rate would be more inline with yours. It may be that I am just a bad chooser. If you screwed my women you would have a 1 of 4 satisfaction rate. A more pleasant thought is me doing your women and being satisfied 3 of 4 times. Want to pick for me? I'll pay you a 500 baht commission. (I'm 46 too, Brutha).

07-23-02, 07:39
Your info sure helps plan things..!

Apac Boy
07-23-02, 08:26

fainting...blacking out...lights dimming...pleaseeee..send...


Joe Zop
07-23-02, 14:09
Well, Dufus, since you brought me into the conversation by taking a shot at my sensibility and tastes, then I guess I'll weigh in. (Please note that I've not done so until this post -- I'm happy to defend my opinions, but please don't just assign some to me, ok?) For what it's worth, I don't think I please all that easily; I just don't tend to take my pickiness as a reflection on anything or anyone but myself.

I'd estimate my satisfaction rate on overnight encounters at around 50%-60%. When I say that I'm making a distinction, as well -- there are times when I'll have a short-time encounter that gets extended or a second visit that goes long-time after the first was a good short-time. I'm not counting those, and they would obviously move the number up a bit, because I don't think that was your point. I'm also not counting repeat long-time encounters, but instead only new ones.

To me, that's a good enough level, honestly. I rather prefer a bit of a longer stint of several days to a week with someone, so if every other TG I'm with for a night fits my criteria for even longer time then that's great. I also don't always do overnights -- I want to feel some kind of compatability (or have some real level of interest or excitement about the girl) to do that. If I'm somewhere and just want to get laid I tend to go short time; long-time for me means either I can see something in the girl that makes me think she might make a good companion for a few days or else that I've found myself in a very nice situation, such as one overnight with two girls from Thermae (one a starfish, one a wildcat -- which worked out to the best 50% scenario one could ask for...)

07-24-02, 05:05
Originally posted by joe_zop
Well, Dufus, since you brought me into the conversation by taking a shot at my sensibility and tastes, ...


Firstly, I was not taking a shot at you or anyone else. I screwed up and typed your handle instead of "Seydlitz's. I am not making good/bad value judgements here when I refer to someone being easier to satisfy. I am just after satisfaction statistics. In retrospect, I am glad I accidentally specified your handle as this mistake has triggered you to "weigh in", something I am glad you did.


Joe Zop
07-24-02, 06:14
z, if you're shocked you've agreed with me, imagine my state of stunned surprise :)

i don't know where you got the idea that i'm waiting until the end of my trip for the girl to get it right, as my point was exactly the opposite -- that half don't get it right at all in the sack, and some might get it right but not be someone i want to spend more time with, so i'm looking for the combination of someone who gets it right in both aspects in order to consider making them be a longer stint. if i'm reasonably good at making a guess about who that person might be who will be interesting to hang with, then i figure i've got about a 50% chance that they'll be good at the sex side of things, and that would mean i get both sides of my equation. (alternately, on occasion there's someone who's so good in the sack that it's worth hanging with them longer as well. rarer, that.)

also, didn't say i hired for a week -- i said i prefer a longer situation that might be a week or so. there's a critical difference, in that if it doesn't work for me i can end it, and hiring for a week up front changes the equation in some fundamental ways. might not be the nicest way to do things, and is more expensive, but when in those situations i rather prefer the concept of having the girl feel she needs to work to keep my interest. (good set of side-effects to that, at times.)

and, again, it's not about emotional release, either. i've said this before -- for me it's not just about physical release, it's about the quality of the overall experience, and that can include cuddling, waking up together, going to restaurants, etc. i'm someone alone in a different country and culture, and it can, at times, be interesting to explore that with someone who represents some part of it. sometimes -- not always, and not always successfully, but for me often worth the process of seeing what happens. (and, no, that doesn't mean walking hand in hand down the street wearing a speedo!) i'm not giving my heart or wallet away; i'm just having someone i screw and talk to for my own purposes, and unlike you i don't need to set a time limit on that process. (and in any event, there are worse things than having your heart broken. like never ever having that happen :)) in general, i don't see thai sex workers as having bar-coded expiration dates that say, 'use before xxx or will go sour' (not that it doesn't happen, of course!)

z, i know you and i disagree on the whole issue of return or longer engagements, but i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as we're not going to change one another's mind. i've had as many dull or bad experiences in soapys or short-time hotels as i have by taking tgs back to my place. your cautions in that regard are well taken, but for some of us it's well worth the 'risk' you define.

and dufus, no prob. jai dee.

Apac Boy
07-24-02, 07:04
well, this is kind of off topic..but still, it IS about thai women.

I met this really cute Thai exchange student...she's going for her MBA too and she's in my class...she went to Chula in BKK and is here all by herself...

so suave tapioca shows off his pasa thai...poot pasa thai nit noy...she falls for it...and she asks me "so what you do in bangkok?"
SHIT....what to say...what to say...nana plaza? soi Cowboy? Patpong? soapy??? nah..i don't think so

told her i went for work and learned a lil bit...

I guess going on the city tours really does help in situations like this.


07-24-02, 07:09
Hey Dufus,

As with Joe Zop, I was a little offended by the implication that we are easy to please. But after thinking about it for a while, I must admit that to a degree it is true. When I arrive in the LOS, coming from L.A., it's pretty hard for a girl to not make me happy.

But, as you also eluded to, I may just be better at selecting. No thanks on the commission. It's hard enough dragging MY ass around ! Good hunting.


07-24-02, 07:48
The language thing worries me. I can picture me not being able to communicate what I want or anything else vital or finding one that has some sexual expertise that I want to savor but not being able to spend a comfortable few hours because we can't speak at all. I also don't see any practical way to learn enough Thai to make a difference in the 6 mos or so before my trip.
I've got a ton of pics but just stuff I've pulled off of the web, pretty much like the few I sent you, nearly all are European and American girls, nothing origional. There are also some hardcore. You are welcome to some if you want them

Joe Zop
07-24-02, 13:20
Najene -- I never found the language thing to be a completely terrible barrier, but you're right that at times it can get in the way of conversation. As far as sexual acts, I never had any trouble communicating that, and even if your TG doesn't speak any/much English there's generally someone (Mamasan, for example) who does and who can act as intermediary. If you're looking for specific sexual options you're better settling that before you go off together in any event. Your tradeoff is basically this -- most of the women who speak any or better English have been in the game longer, which can be a positive or negative, depending on both your approach and the girl.

It's not that hard to pick up basic conversational Thai phrases when you're there, and if you're really serious there's always the Berlitz course, for which six months is plenty of time, or some of the others. You can also find something at a bookstore like Borders, for example, in SF. On my upcoming trip I'm planning to invest a couple of hours a day for two weeks or so on some Thai tutoring, as I'm going to be there a couple of months.

Is your Portuguese better? :)

07-24-02, 14:06
Hello everyone...

A couple of days ago got back from Thailand spending time in Bangkok, Khorat and Samui for a total of 3 weeks. It was a great experience as I decided to play and learn a little more about the lives of these TGs. Met many. many girls and had the luck of having a permanent companion who let me play the field without any complications other than a couple of little complaints here and there.

One experience I had that showed me how really these girls operate and live their lives in the bar scene was a farewell to a go-go girl at Angels Witch bar in Nana. I got invited by my TG friend to a little party for a girl (no names) who was leaving the bar to get married to a British guy (I was invited to the wedding but could not make it). The leaving girl had many girlfriends and they came to say goodbye at the party which took place at the bar from as far a Australia and Norway. These out of town guests were not former bar girls but friends of the go-go girl. It was a fun party with many bottles of Thai whisky and some good laughs and tears. There were some regular customers that stopped by through out the night to say goodbye. This got interesting when 2 showed at the same time.

Being in the inside (to a point) of these bar scene party and around working and non working girls it seem like an office farewell party except that it took place at a go-go bar. The non-bar-working girls although seem to accept the whole thing just fine looked around in amazement and little confussion had good English skills so there were able to translate for me what was going on. The working girls saying goodbye were the saddest of the group as they saw the leaving girl finally get away from the bar and I'm sure they were thinking if they someday would get lucky and find a farang to take them away. It was in a weird way a turn off of the whole sexual anergy a go-go bar has for me because I could see a little more about the work these girls do and how they really don't like it but must do. After this party and talking to the girls going back to a go-go bar it almost seemed boring and it took a really stunning girl to get me interested in bar- fining her.

I had other interesting experience with the TGs that I will write about later.


07-25-02, 09:08
Thanx Joe;
I'll probably try the Berlitz course.
My Portugese is also non-existance as well.

07-25-02, 20:19

As Joe said, the language is not a big problem, especially in touristed areas. But, if you would like to learn a little before you arrive, it can be done. Best choice is a local Thai Wat. But you need to live in a city that is large enough to have a Thai community. L.A. is probably the best for that, the local Wat has classes going on year round. Do you live in a big city ?

The on tape courses are better than nothing, but actually speaking to a person, using and hearing the tonal differences helps a lot.

Tapioca, did you get the jpg's ? I sent a few, but got an error msg back.


Apac Boy
07-26-02, 06:05
stupid hotmail account only allows 2 megs of space so i had to delete some stuff on that account. check ur email..i replied...

learn thai..it's such a stupid language (not in a bad way). i meant..very simple. the problem is you need to speak it everyday to remember it.

if she can't understand doggy...tell her to turn around... if she can't understand turn around, start barking...if she can't understand ur barking, just turn her 80lb ass over and stick it in. u don't need to learn thai....


07-26-02, 20:24
I hear you Tapioca. You don't have to learn the language. Just
roll her over and move in. She will react accordingly. I have been with Latin women and Asian women who couldn't speak a lick of English and I had no problem...Just use your hands and lead them where you want them to go. Sex is pretty much an instinctive art and these girls are pretty experienced at an early age.

07-29-02, 01:21

just remember the more language skills they have, the more experience they have. sometimes I like it, sometimes I prefer it when they are apparently still fairly green.

hehe. i can't help but raise an eyebrow when I get a northern Thai girl back to my place, she turns on the karaoke machine (**shrugs**, yes I have one :p) and starts crooning away in Chinese or Japanese. thinks to myself....[ah... so you've been around the block more than a few times].


08-03-02, 15:24
Whats everyone's advice on the best way to get rid of a Thai LT girl?

Lemme preface that by saying that I've never paid for LT, mostly because I can't afford the rates where I am presently (Korea) and never really had the need. But since I'm going to be in Phuket in a week I'm definately going to get some LT action because the price is right AND because I don't like to be rushed. But.. I get sick of girls easily and usually want them to leave. I recently started up with a new girlfriend (a week after I paid for my Thailand vacation heh) and even though I like her, I find that after I double nut her I just want her to leave.

So whats the best way for getting an LT girl to go home after unleashing 3-4 shots into her? From what I've read here some of these girls can be hard to get rid of... or will just giving her the money promised do it?


Joe Zop
08-03-02, 16:56
Seems to me you might just want to go short-term, make clear what your definition of short-term is, and if you decide you want her to hang around, try to convince her to stay. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, but it sounds as though you basically want ST with the option of LT, as opposed to the other way around. If you're not going to want her for LT, why pay for it and why set it up that way? As Z has said, sometimes you are just paying them to go. Sometimes.

That said, I've used various strategies for getting rid of LT girls, and the success varies by the girl. Sometimes I just tell them I've decided I'd rather sleep alone. Sometimes, since I bring my laptop, I say I'm in the mood to work and need to be by myself. Lots of times it's no big issue, and the girl is happy to go sleep in her own place or go try to hook up with friends/a new customer. Occasionally I just need to be rude and tell them to get out, but I've honestly not had that happen much.

Now, getting rid of LT girls who you've been with for a longer period of time (meaning days) is more complicated as they feel they've set their hooks in you and are angling for a continued payoff. I usually handle that by just not really conveying any of my travel plans or trip duration and telling them I'm moving along. (I'm never one for company at the airport or any of that stuff.) If I'm not leaving, I'm careful not to frequent the place she hangs/works lest she lose face or there's a scene.