View Full Version : 2007 Thai Women - Opinions & Advice
Old Thai Hand
08-27-07, 14:52
I will be here a few years and have some time to try and get a local GF.
I have taken a real cutie non P4P out on a few dates and have been getting some mixed messages. Whenever we go out, I have a great time and we end up talking for hours and she seems genuinely interested. She has even called me to initiate a date. However, she insists on paying for things and has not been real interested in physical contact.
For those with experience, is she just waiting to get to know me better? Or am I destined for the let's be friends scenario?
It depends on what a "few dates means", how old she is,, what her status is (re: her family...HiSo, MidSo etc.) whether she's had a BF before, whether you're the first Farang she's known.
Generally, though if you're not getting any action at all after 3 or 4 dates, I'd move on and find someone else. There are plenty of regular TGs around.
SlimHoleDrill
09-01-07, 15:23
These women will utterly fool even the most well-travelled and intelligent among us. The venus fly trap comes to mind, when I think of the deception and betrayal I've seen, read of, and experienced.
We don't stand a chance if they want to deceive us, ...
It's how they are wired and it's all good. Just because it's not in line with western thinking and behaviour does not make it less ethical. Just different.Cat
Well said -- don't get ahead of yourself in these relationships.
Although, I guess I am feeling cynical this morning because this could be said of women around the world. They are wired differently. Maybe from another planet. For example, there is a lot of evidence supported by DNA studies done that show unbelievably high rates of non paternity.- the father in the family is not the real father. So it isn't just in Thailand.
Retired Army
09-02-07, 08:11
Generally, though if you're not getting any action at all after 3 or 4 dates, I'd move on and find someone else. There are plenty of regular TGs around.
It depends on how you feel about the girl. Took me six months to get my Thai GF (now wife) to spread her legs, but was worth the wait. When she wasn't putting out there were plenty of other opportunities so I didn't go without. One of the reasons she was so hesitant was because she had never been with a farang before and was afraid of my size.
Old Thai Hand
09-02-07, 14:24
It depends on how you feel about the girl. Took me six months to get my Thai GF (now wife) to spread her legs, but was worth the wait. When she wasn't putting out there were plenty of other opportunities so I didn't go without. One of the reasons she was so hesitant was because she had never been with a farang before and was afraid of my size.
RA
I don't know how long ago that was. But, I'd say that things have changed significantly in recent years. I got my GF on the 2nd date and likewise another recently. In both cases, they come from good backgrounds and never had a Farang before. I think the fear factor about Farang size is less of an issue these days. TGs are just more open than even 5 years ago.
Retired Army
09-02-07, 16:45
RA
I don't know how long ago that was. But, I'd say that things have changed significantly in recent years. I got my GF on the 2nd date and likewise another recently. In both cases, they come from good backgrounds and never had a Farang before. I think the fear factor about Farang size is less of an issue these days. TGs are just more open than even 5 years ago.
It was five years ago, damn maybe I don't know what I'm missing and I made a mistake. Isn't the grass is always greener in the other pasture? But I just can't explain who the Beatles were and why there's air to another Thai woman. And once the the saddle in broken in correctly, and it's comfortable, why get a new one that's all stiff and rough? Not to mention all the money I have invested in massage courses.
These women will utterly fool even the most well-travelled and intelligent among us. The venus fly trap comes to mind, when I think of the deception and betrayal I've seen, read of, and experienced.
.....
These ladies HAVE TO take care of mom and the grandkids that mom cares for while daughter(s) work in BKK. It's how they are wired and it's all good. Just because it's not in line with western thinking and behaviour does not make it less ethical. Just different.I've spent some time in Thailand's Isaan region. And I've seen a number of happily married farangs with their Thai families there. All of these guys have spent a lot of money in their Thai families. These guys have bought land, built new homes, and bought new pick up trucks for their Thai families. They've taken care of their Thai wives and any needy relatives their Thai wives felt obliged to help. And this is how they've achieved happy family relationships in Thailand.
The deceiving and the taking advantage of usually comes when you don't help your lady enough to take care of all her problems in life. When you help your lady only part-time. Then you shouldn't be surprised that she makes you a part-time partner of hers.
As you said, the lady HAS to take care of her relatives. And this means that you are asking for trouble, when you start a relationship with a Thai lady and then don't help her out as much as she needs.
The Traveler
09-03-07, 23:26
...TGs are just more open than even 5 years ago.
OTH,
what exactly do you mean by "MORE OPEN" ?
Please explain :D
The Traveler
09-03-07, 23:31
I will be here a few years and have some time to try and get a local GF.
I have taken a real cutie non P4P out on a few dates and have been getting some mixed messages. Whenever we go out, I have a great time and we end up talking for hours and she seems genuinely interested. She has even called me to initiate a date. However, she insists on paying for things and has not been real interested in physical contact.
For those with experience, is she just waiting to get to know me better? Or am I destined for the let's be friends scenario?
Russell Crowe,
why ask us instead of her ?
Tell her that you would like to know her "better" and ask her straight away. Many girls appreciate honesty and as long as you are polite and don't take a decline personal everything will be fine. Why waste time ?
Old Thai Hand
09-04-07, 04:13
OTH,
what exactly do you mean by "MORE OPEN" ?
Please explain :D
More open sexually and more open to relationships with Farang...and I'm not speaking of Isaan girls, either who've always been open to relationships with Farang... but, girls from the more "Farang-resistant" areas of Thailand (Central Plains, including BKK, Northern Lanna region, and South).
Old Thai Hand
09-04-07, 04:15
As you said, the lady HAS to take care of her relatives. And this means that you are asking for trouble, when you start a relationship with a Thai lady and then don't help her out as much as she needs.
The solution is not to get involved with some poor, uneducated farm-girl from Isaan who has to support her dead-beat family and the immediate world that surrounds them.
I can assure you that, if you start a relationship with a girl from a good family, the "Farang as a walking ATM" factor doesn't play a role at all.
Welcome back Traveller. We missed your comments and insights.
....I can assure you that, if you start a relationship with a girl from a good family, the "Farang as a walking ATM" factor doesn't play a role at all.This is true only when you go after a Thai lady who is around your age and who is not any more physically attractive for the opposites sex than you are.
But if you want to have a lady who is an '8' instead of a '4' and who is a lot younger than you are. Then money from you and better lifestyle for the lady does come into the marriage equation. Why else would she choose you and not some other guy who is just as nice to her?
If you want a better woman. Then you've got open your wallet a little more.
It's like that not just in Thailand but in every other country too. Perhaps the only difference in Thailand is that you've got to help a little the lady's family too on top of providing a better lifestyle for her. But this is not such a big deal. When the family is really poor. Then it doesn't take much money to imporve their lives. And quite often these relatives end up returning you the favor by helping your wife and your kids, when you are away from them.
Old Thai Hand
09-05-07, 01:46
This is true only when you go after a Thai lady who is around your age and who is not any more physically attractive for the opposites sex than you are.
But if you want to have a lady who is an '8' instead of a '4' and who is a lot younger than you are. Then money from you and better lifestyle for the lady does come into the marriage equation. Why else would she choose you and not some other guy who is just as nice to her?
If you want a better woman. Then you've got open your wallet a little more.
It's like that not just in Thailand but in every other country too. Perhaps the only difference in Thailand is that you've got to help a little the lady's family too on top of providing a better lifestyle for her. But this is not such a big deal. When the family is really poor. Then it doesn't take much money to imporve their lives. And quite often these relatives end up returning you the favor by helping your wife and your kids, when you are away from them.
You're still thinking like a monger and you obviously have little experience with this and don't know the culture, wherein age differences are quite common. If the Thai girl comes from a good family and doesn't need your money, then money doesn't enter into the equation at all. I am 55 and my GF is 22. Her family are financially comfortable. I don't give them anything. I am helping her with school, only because she is with me and it is now my responsiblity, not her father's. If she wasn't with me, he'd be paying for it. But, other than that, I give very little to her. Up until recently, she was working and I wasn't giving her anything, other than the odd bit of clothing and of course paying for her food. I see this as normal and having nothing to do with financial status or age.
I can assure that in 11 years here, I've had considerable experience with this, and know the difference between the usual "hand-in-the-till" Isaan bargirl and a respectable Thai girl who won't even ask for money.
.... I am helping her with school, only because she is with me and it is now my responsiblity, not her father's....I've had some experience in Thailand too, although a lot less than eleven years. But the fact that you are paying for her school, while you are not even married to her, is the real reason why she is having sex with you and not with some other guy.
Good education in exchange for good sex. Not a bad deal for either one of you, I'the say. And she'll probably leave you for some younger guy, once she finishes her school and doesn't need your help anymore.
There are relationships like that in the West too. 'Friend with benefits' is what the young College girls call it. But others call it 'hooking to pay for expensive education'.
As long as both are adults and both are consenting, then I have no problem with it. But I don't see how this is better than marriage, where the husband helps his wife's relatives a little on top of taking care of her.
Sure, your expenses are limited and you don't spend as much money on the girl as the married guy does. But that's only because your relationship with the girl is limited too. She can't reasonably expect you to help her relatives because you are not her husband and you are not a part of her family. And you can't reasonably expect her to stay with you for the rest of your life because she is not your wife.
When the lady's comittment to you is less than full and complete. Then naturally she will accept less pay from you for her sexual favors. And this is fair. You get what you pay for.
As for your girfriend's family being financially comfortable. Appearances can be deceiving. And in Thailand, appearances are not only deceiving but also important. It's a part of their culture to appear good in public. And that's why people in Thailand often go to great lengths to create good appearances of being well off, even when they are not.
Old Thai Hand
09-05-07, 14:52
Dan
First of all, my paying for her school is only a recent development and something I was not asked to do, but volunteered to do because we have been living together for 15 months and by Thai standards are more or less married. Secondly, I was having sex with her from day 2 (day 1 was just a lot of groping;)) when she was working and earning her own money, which she did up until 2 weeks ago.
Believe what you want. But, I think you don't really understand much beyond the usual Farang experienced with the lower echelons of mostly Isaan culture.
My GF is fairly HiSo, or at the very least upper middle-class and yet, won't ever leave me unless I decide she will. There is no "appearances can be deceiving" here. I am quite familiar with who her family are. I can't say anything specific, but can say that her father, before he retired was a senior government officer, not to mention part of the immediate security entourage of the Crown Prince. I've never had a TG leave me, yet and I've had several, who were rich enough to buy and sell me a million times over.
Whether, you are willing to accept it or not, money is not always a factor with Thai women, if you know the right ones. Admittedly, I've been lucky because of where I've worked, and the people I've met, which has allowed me a wider access to a variety of Thai women that most Farang only dream of meeting.
Since you probably don't have much experience with TGs other than those looking for a meal ticket, it's understandable that you would hold steadfast to your opinion.
Damn OTH,
So your woman is "fairly HiSo, or at the very least upper middle-class", but you fucked her on the second day.
In "at the very least" middle class circles, that makes her a sl*t-slash-wh*re.
If she can cook too, and cleans the house, you got yourself a package.
Fairly HiSo..? My ass!
Old Thai Hand
09-05-07, 16:00
Damn OTH,
So your woman is "fairly HiSo, or at the very least upper middle-class", but you fucked her on the second day.
In "at the very least" middle class circles, that makes her a sl*t-slash-wh*re.
If she can cook too, and cleans the house, you got yourself a package.
Fairly HiSo..? My ass!
:) Funny. I do realize that writing something like "failry HiSo..." sounds quite stupid. But, I did it because newbie Dan is obviously one of these guys who's never gotten past Nana, Soi Cowboy or Patts and thinks that has given him the vast experience to judge about TG and Farang relationships.
However, why would I lie about this? I think I've long since established with pics and reports my credibility.
Maybe my ability to score quickly with regular TGs is due to my charm and and charisma. LOL. Anyway, I'm not about to get into a pissing match here about this. So, tell me I'm full of shit, if you want.
BTW, things have changed greatly in the mores of the middle and upper classes here. You should have heard the discussions among the girls in my class today!!! Jee-sus!!!
Not that it proves anything difinitively...but, I've attached some screen-captures of a Chula student's cam-show that indicate that there may be some changes in the aforementioned mores, that have nothing to do with the exchange of money.
NicFrenchy
09-05-07, 16:16
Admittedly, I've been lucky because of where I've worked, and the people I've met, which has allowed me a wider access to a variety of Thai women that most Farang only dream of meeting.OTH,
with all due respect, who are you kidding here? "most Farang Dream of Meeting?"
First, even though you have experience about Thailand, you are not qualified to speak for "most Farang(s)", second, maybe we already met.
You see, I work for some Hi-so Thais and, maybe as a puppet Farang, I have a duty to be at a lot of the So-called Hi-so Parties you see in Magasines and let me tell you this: these people are highly boring, most of the one I talked with only talk about what they are and how much money they have, land they own etc... it's all about their Face.
I for one have to meet with some of these people and I wish I didn't have to.
Freeler,
OTH is not bullshitting about dating, I have had Mid-so ladies at parties whom asked me to take their friends out on dates, I did with a few cute ones and there was no doubt that they were "open" for sexual encounters before Marriage (in other words, maybe I would have not been as fast as OTH with his 2 days, but I could have gotten them into bed after 4 to 5 dates).
OTH,
For your 1,000th post, perhaps you can cook up something a little more controversial:D.
Congrats in advance!
As for the cam show... I prefer them a little more matured.
Freeler
Dan
First of all, my paying for her school is only a recent development and something I was not asked to do, but volunteered to do because we have been living together for 15 months and by Thai standards are more or less married. Secondly, I was having sex with her from day 2 (day 1 was just a lot of groping;)) when she was working and earning her own money, which she did up until 2 weeks ago. ....
Well, perhaps you are lucky, or very good looking, or you have some work-related connections that your Thai friends value and want to have on their side. But I find it hard to believe that any reasonably good man can have as much luck with selfless, young, attractive women as you've had.
If this lady has moved in with you soon after you've started having sex with her. Then I find it hard to believe that she didn't save all of her earnings and let you pay for the apartment, for the food, and for any entertainment the two of you had.
Most women would want more than that, of course. And that's why I say your case is an exception rather than the rule in Thailand.
Perhaps your girlfriend wanted some independence from her parents and a better lifestyle. And that's why she went for you. It's not the best she can get. But maybe she is a little young and naive.
NF,
I don't say that OTH isn't a charmer and a handsome man.
I'm just saying that his GF is a ho, that's of course according to his own HiSo circles.
That's all.
No HiSo lady gets into bed with a falang until at least the whole family have had a say on the relationship.
Your "could have gotten them into bed after 4 to 5 dates" isn't a very strong statement, is it?
OTH,
I'm waiting for that #1,000:D!
NicFrenchy
09-07-07, 17:56
I bought this Book : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-Bangkok-Private-Eye-Stories/dp/981054832X and the stories are highly entertaining, so entertaining that I read the book in one go.
I quote one Paragraph where he talks about Bargirls:
Tourists go Trawling through the red light districts until they meet a girl they think is special.
The Love of their life was working as a prostitute, but now she's a good girl.
She loves me, only me, my girl is Different.
Anyone thinking of starting a long-term relationship with a bargirl has to get one thing straight from the start, girls work in the sex industry for one reason and one reason only: Money.
Cold, hard Cash. They're not dancing around a chrome pole because they want to be rescued by a White Khight, they're not spreading their legs in short-time hotels because they want to live happily ever after with a guy twice their age.
I think that this is food for thoughts. I have been in Bkk for 3 years now and have heard of girls leaving the "scene" because of sponsors and the likes.
What do you think are the odds in such relationships?
Retired Army
09-08-07, 07:58
Dan
First of all, my paying for her school is only a recent development and something I was not asked to do, but volunteered to do because we have been living together for 15 months and by Thai standards are more or less married... ...when she was working and earning her own money, which she did up until 2 weeks ago...
...Whether, you are willing to accept it or not, money is not always a factor with Thai women, if you know the right ones...
OTH,
Be careful here. When my Thai GF/Wife began dating she had her own business and plenty of money. Gradually things changed to where I am footing the entire bill for her and half her family. Granted she has had to make a lot of sacrafices to be with me, so I guess it all works out. Plus, I can afford such minor outlays of cash.
And somehow, deep down in my heart, I think money is always a factor...
Member #3409
09-08-07, 09:59
Cold, hard Cash. They're not dancing around a chrome pole because they want to be rescued by a White Khight, they're not spreading their legs in short-time hotels because they want to live happily ever after with a guy twice their age. [/i]
I think that this is food for thoughts. I have been in Bkk for 3 years now and have heard of girls leaving the "scene" because of sponsors and the likes.
What do you think are the odds in such relationships?
Actually talk to some of these girls and the White Knight (rich of course) is what they want. They want the money but don't want to hawk the fork all the time.
I bought this Book : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-Bangkok-Private-Eye-Stories/dp/981054832X and the stories are highly entertaining, so entertaining that I read the book in one go.
I quote one Paragraph where he talks about Bargirls:
Tourists go Trawling through the red light districts until they meet a girl they think is special.
The Love of their life was working as a prostitute, but now she's a good girl.
She loves me, only me, my girl is Different.
Anyone thinking of starting a long-term relationship with a bargirl has to get one thing straight from the start, girls work in the sex industry for one reason and one reason only: Money.
Cold, hard Cash. They're not dancing around a chrome pole because they want to be rescued by a White Khight, they're not spreading their legs in short-time hotels because they want to live happily ever after with a guy twice their age.
I think that this is food for thoughts. I have been in Bkk for 3 years now and have heard of girls leaving the "scene" because of sponsors and the likes.
What do you think are the odds in such relationships?Interesting I'll let you know how my relationship goes.
OTH,
Be careful here. When my Thai GF/Wife began dating she had her own business and plenty of money. Gradually things changed to where I am footing the entire bill for her and half her family. Granted she has had to make a lot of sacrafices to be with me, so I guess it all works out. Plus, I can afford such minor outlays of cash.
And somehow, deep down in my heart, I think money is always a factor...I just have 10000 baht to a girl ( not my girlfriend). but I asked her why she could not go to her cousin as her cousins family is rich.
She pointed out that her mother and her cousins mother are sisters but it is her cousins father that is rich.
So now I have to ask the question, if thai man does not look after his extended family why is it that farang do.
For the record this girl does not work in a bar and she said she will pay the money back to me.
Retired Army
09-08-07, 22:00
So now I have to ask the question, if thai man does not look after his extended family why is it that farang do.
For the record this girl does not work in a bar and she said she will pay the money back to me.
Good question. Farangs have this desire to be saviors to young misguided Thai girls. Thais are more realistic.
And the golden rule about giving money to Thai girls: consider it a gift because you will never see it again, it will be one excuse after another.
Mr Down,
Are you the guy who invented the syndrom of that name:(?
Your post is like a time machine. It brought me back five, perhaps six years when many a misguided falang posted here about his excuses for helping a TG, e.g. give her his money and get dumped.
You should really RTFF of those years and get some perspective.
Get well soon!
Freeler
Good question. Farangs have this desire to be saviors to young misguided Thai girls. Thais are more realistic.
And the golden rule about giving money to Thai girls: consider it a gift because you will never see it again, it will be one excuse after another.Golden rule for giving money to anyone not just Thai girls is to consider it a gift, any money I give anyone is done with no expectation of return. If it comes back all well and good, if not shit happens. and they will not get any more money unless they have repaid the first loan.
I have been speaking with this girl for over a year now and this is the first time she has asked for money.
Mr Down,
Are you the guy who invented the syndrom of that name:(?
Your post is like a time machine. It brought me back five, perhaps six years when many a misguided falang posted here about his excuses for helping a TG, e.g. give her his money and get dumped.
You should really RTFF of those years and get some perspective.
Get well soon!
FreelerHi Freeler,
I do not concider myself to be misguided, I don't need to RTFF I just need to sit in a BKK hotel bar and listen to the guy that sold everything he had to move to Bkk to be closer to his Pattaya bar girl sweet heart. Only to be told after he arrives back in Thailand that his sweet heart can not see him again. This is after he has given her everything he owns.
I'm sure the experience was fascinating, OTH. The only thing which spoils it is the overpaying.
Several years ago, I actually did exactly this same sort of trip to Isaan, and in fact to Buriram, with a girl who worked at Eden Club. The curious part was that not only did I not pay her for the three day visit, but she 'took care' of me!
It went like this. After a few regular two girl visits with this girl (bareback btw! ), I would occasionally bar fine her late at night and we would hang out all night. She even occasionally bought me dinner and once a Thai massage! Then one day she asked if I would come to Buriram with her and 'pretend to be her rich boyfriend' for the occasion of blessing the new house she had built with Eden monies. I was about 34 at the time, and I suppose the idea of telling her family she was making 60, 000 a month off of a decent looking guy in her age range sounded better than the truth. Blowing and anally recieving 3-4 guys a day every day.
I agreed, with the caveate that I was broke and so she would have to take care of food, transportation, etc. , plus a taxi back to Hua Hin when we parted at the end of the long weekend. And thus it transpired. The most interesting thing was how our personal dynamic changed over this period. At first in Eden, when I was a normal paying customer, she provided fantastic service. But once she wasn't being paid, she wouldn't have sex at all. Only blow jobs. I suppose I should count myself lucky she did even that.
One funny moment was when she had just recieved a nice full load in her mouth after sucking me off in the guest bedroom of her fine new house. At Eden she would have swallowed of course, but here she spat it out the window! I couldn't help but wonder if it fell on a drunk, as the house was surrounded by locals sauced on her dime during the three day party.
But the upshot was that I enjoyed a culturally interesting weekend at no cost, with some of the best food I had had to date in Thailand. I even got to watch them slaughter the pig!Hi obepo !
Can you tell me the first letter of her nick name at Eden?
Thx.
Jungle Bluebird
09-09-07, 09:45
This comes from a taxi driver who's wife works for a middle age farang/thai couple in my condo building. While she cleans the condo, she talks a lot to the wife.
The story: Thai wife introduced her Thai lover boy as 'brother' to her farang husband. Regularly 'brother' picks her up from the condo (with husband waving them off). They spend weekends together, officially its a family visit. Guess wife and 'brother' spend his money and probably ponder how to get more.
Interesting here is that she does not screw another farang, but rather 'holds out' a Thai guy. Kind of fuck body I suppose.
Security, maids all know and having a good giggle. There is only person who does not know...
Wicked.
JB
M P Lurker
09-09-07, 17:36
Actually talk to some of these girls and the White Knight (rich of course) is what they want. They want the money but don't want to hawk the fork all the time.
Couldn't agree more. Girls I know in both bars and in MPs are not happy. Sure they need the money. But the thought of a white knight, even if a little older, to save them from those jobs and look after them well is very appealing to some of them. Some have asked me to help them find the right guy too (I'm not available).
Look ALL women are strongly motivated by money and the ease of getting it, one way or another.
Aren't all young beautiful girls marrying older guys essentially the same, selling themselves? Why single out some girls with the label P4P?
"Originally Posted by Jc373
They want the money but don't want to hawk the fork all the time."
"Hawk the fork"? Can you explain that, please?
....Anyone thinking of starting a long-term relationship with a bargirl has to get one thing straight from the start, girls work in the sex industry for one reason and one reason only: Money.
Cold, hard Cash. They're not dancing around a chrome pole because they want to be rescued by a White Khight, they're not spreading their legs in short-time hotels because they want to live happily ever after with a guy twice their age.
I think that this is food for thoughts. I have been in Bkk for 3 years now and have heard of girls leaving the "scene" because of sponsors and the likes.
What do you think are the odds in such relationships?Well, at least if you marry a girl from a bar. Then you can be sure that she will try to satisfy you sexually, whenever you need it. When you marry a sexually inexperienced good girl. Then you can't even be sure of that.
In a traditional marriage, the guy is supposed to be the breadwinner. And the girl is supposed to depend on her husband for financial support. Cold hard cash is supposed to be the big factor that cements their marriage.
A guy can work like a slave to support his wife and kids. And his good-girl wife will scold him for wanting to have sex with her more than once a week or for wanting to do it in some other position besides the missionary.
Of course, you can look for a non-traditional marriage where the lady contributes equally in terms of money. But the lady you'll marry like that probably won't be very attractive in her looks. If she is attractive, then men with more money than she has will want her. And when a lady can marry up in society. Then it doesn't make sense for her to marry an equal.
In most cases, men end up spending a lot of cold, hard cash on their lady anyway, whether she is from a bar or not. But the lady from the bar has one big advantage. She is most likely good in bed. And she doesn't mind at all sexually satisfying her guy.
A lot of bar ladies get tired of being with men who have no comittment to them. And your comittment such a lady will value a lot more than some so called good girl will.
As long as you accept traditional type of marriage. Then I'the say that your marriage with a bar girl probably is more likely to last and succeed than is your marriage with a sexually inexperienced girl.
Member #3409
09-11-07, 07:31
"Originally Posted by Jc373
They want the money but don't want to hawk the fork all the time."
"Hawk the fork"? Can you explain that, please?
It is an Australian expression, probably orginated in england like many of our sayings. Hawk means to sell and the fork is what we often call a womens pubic area. So to hawk the fork means to prostitute ones self.
It is an Australian expression
Thanks for that. I lived in Northern England for several years and in Oz for several more. Never heard the expression. I must have led a sheltered life.
Member #3409
09-13-07, 17:57
Thanks for that. I lived in Northern England for several years and in Oz for several more. Never heard the expression. I must have led a sheltered life.
Here I was thinking you were American.... lol sorry to our American friends, they are the ones who normally haven't heard of foreign sayings.
This comes from a taxi driver who's wife works for a middle age farang/thai couple in my condo building. While she cleans the condo, she talks a lot to the wife.
The story: Thai wife introduced her Thai lover boy as 'brother' to her farang husband. Regularly 'brother' picks her up from the condo (with husband waving them off). They spend weekends together, officially its a family visit. Guess wife and 'brother' spend his money and probably ponder how to get more.
Interesting here is that she does not screw another farang, but rather 'holds out' a Thai guy. Kind of fuck body I suppose.
Security, maids all know and having a good giggle. There is only person who does not know...
Wicked.
JB
Well, maybe the farang husband is well aware of what's going on ... maybe he gives a little freedom to his wife so that she stays with him ... maybe he can't wait that she's gone so that he can screw the maid, or go monger in bars ... In France, this situation is called "menage a trois" ...
BB.
bangkok:
he may be old, flabby, and far from handsome, but a western husband can bring a lifetime of happiness, according to a new book advising thai women on how to meet and marry foreign men.
foreign boyfriend, foreign husband, with chapters written by thai women already married to "farang" or foreigners sells a cinderellastyle dream to young thai women hoping for a passport to a better life. the book is packed with tips on dating, kissing, sexual positions, weddings, living abroad and bringing up children.
an early chapter gives basic advice on how to meet your foreign man: hang out in a bar, hotel or department store, be alone, wear a sexy dress, make eye contact, and, if you get the chance, tell a funny story. once you’ve found your boyfriend, follow these rules to make him fall in love and marry you: always look good, have sex with him whenever he asks, don't be jealous of other women, don't be too demanding and do all the housework.
marriage of a poor thai women to a foreigner is seen as an extension of a redlight transaction, an exchange of youth and beauty for money and security. but the book portrays a more romantic vision. western men, it enthuses, are kind and respectful and less likely to have the bad habits sometimes associated with thai men— drinking, adultery and violence.
the book is aimed at impressionable, uneducated women and would be seen as a joke by many thai women, said aomjai sarkhampee, a teacher in bangkok. "we don’t believe that marrying a farang can make our dreams come true. " reuters
Bangkok:
He may be old, flabby, and far from handsome, but a Western husband can bring a lifetime of happiness, according to a new book advising Thai women on how to meet and marry foreign men.
This wonderful book IMHO should be a big part of the junior high school curriculum of every young lady in Thailand, and I believe that every word in it is absolutely true 100%. :)
Regards,
Daddy
RogueTrader8888
09-15-07, 16:23
I just had sex with a lady with a scorpion tattoo on her left breast. She says that its a good luck charm that protects her from harm since she's away from her family and works in the sex trade. Nice girl but I'm afraid that it's some voodoo shit. Any thai brothers can confirm this?
The solution is not to get involved with some poor, uneducated farm-girl from Isaan who has to support her dead-beat family and the immediate world that surrounds them.
I can assure you that, if you start a relationship with a girl from a good family, the "Farang as a walking ATM" factor doesn't play a role at all.Well said. Deadbeats though can be found in all cities. It is true that in the non thai entertainment sector there is a VERY high % of Isaan girls.
I would say a very high % of these entertainment girls are only interested in money. The exception seems to be a genuinely sweet girl with decent intelligence that finds a bond/friendship with a male. Even still, financial gain is a factor.
My thai friends from upper society have confirmed what are my own suspicions. Even a university graduate short of being from a family with money can/will still be interested in finding a better life, or a sugar daddy. This is why affluent families discourage their children to marry with those in need of money. The families do not want to become the financiers for the spouse and extended family. I cannot blame them can you?
Mainstream thai society is MUCH different from bar/entertainment culture. People are/can be actually punctual, go to work on time, are motivated.
Governmental welfare as it exists in europe and the usa does not exist in Thailand. The entertainment girls have created their version of welfare. It is called "duping a lonely non thai male"
Honestly, don't many of the bar girls seem like contestants on The Jerry Springer Show? You don't need formal education to be intelligent and wise, BUT, many of these girls have neither and think they are so clever and sophisticated. Many are quite ugly to boot and have developed "I am beautiful" attitudes no doubt reinforced by farang that treat them like gods gift to the world. Calling some "dumber than rocks" is a disservice to rocks.
It is entertainment and entertainment only, as the sign says.
[Originally Posted by Humilde
But I was referring to the conniving Thai girls, many of which ARE "nasty looking" and expertly versed in any lie(s) to get our money. I agree about many western women. oK, so in Thailand, instead of fat ugly western conniving, you often get thin ugly conniving, and for added sohistication, tattoo laden puffing a cig.]
I beg to differ : having been in Pattaya now for a week I have not been with any woman that resembles nasty,tatoo laden and puffing on a cig. Maybe you should lay off the beer and see what you are choosing.
There are cute women around, one needs to look and not jump on the 1st skirt that crosses the horizon. I can say though, that there are many dudes hanging out with really unpleasant looking women, why I have no idea at all.
There was one woman that had asked for a 10,000 baht bar fine for spending a week with me- now did she really think I was going to comply.
She was from Waow's bar in Jomtien so be careful.
We all talk about the conniving women where ever they may be and Thailand is no different but we can go with them or not. Its not that difficult to see who has $$ signs in her eyes and who has a sembalance of decency. These women are out there one only needs a little bit of patience and to stop thinking with the lower part of our body - lay off the beer bottle until the deal is closed.
Thats it for the time being and be careful in Pattaya - the LB's seem to be nailing tourists more and more afte the bewitching hour.
More later.
Cheers.The tattoo laden nasty ones do seem to be abundant around Sukhumvit in BKK, especially soi 7 bars.
Pattaya seems to have them more spread out so they appear to less.
Deadbeats
I would like to object to the use of this term to describe poor people. The implication of the term is that they chose to not pay bills. Of course the reality is that they cannot.
Governmental welfare as it exists in europe and the usa does not exist in Thailand. The entertainment girls have created their version of welfare.
I would also like to interject that in fact there is no safety net in the United States, such as exists in some of the more enlightened parts of Europe. The US is much more like Thailand in the social darwinistic sense than it is like Europe.
Lastly it is very innaccurate to describe the job of the sex-workers as a 'version of welfare'. They quite simply work very hard providing a service, just like every other desperate working person on the planet.
NicFrenchy
09-18-07, 10:58
Honestly, don't many of the bar girls seem like contestants on The Jerry Springer Show? You don't need formal education to be intelligent and wise, BUT, many of these girls have neither and think they are so clever and sophisticated. Many are quite ugly to boot and have developed "I am beautiful" attitudes no doubt reinforced by farang that treat them like gods gift to the world. Calling some "dumber than rocks" is a disservice to rocks.Interesting. You seem to be a very judgemental individual.
We all have a right to an opinion, it is actually a positive thing to have differences in our views and certainly helps create a good debate, but your behavior shows (to me anyhow) that you are no more intelligent than the ladies you try to undermine.
Why would you in any way find it wrong for a man to treat a woman like a human being? make her feel special? or is it exclusively reserved to people from a certain "society Class"?
Don't you think it is already hard enough to have to sell your body to Strangers in order to feed/support your family?
Be a little more objective in your comments and treat people with respect, Calling some girls "dumber than rocks"? what if some of them were sold or forced into prostitution at an early age? with no chance/access at getting an education?
Quite frankly, there is a lot of shit written in this board about Thai girlfriends. Of course, when mixing P4P with emotion, things get ugly. Also, you can take the girl out of the village, but you cannot get the village out of the girl.
Loads of proper hard working Thai women in this country who surely qualify for g/f, wife. Cultural differences cannot be bridged, that guys need to understand.
Many of the views expressed here are truly bottom up. Guys who only hang out with *****s surely will never meet educated Thai women.
Thai women are the sweetest girls in the world, as long as one demonstrates patience and understanding.
JBThai women are sure the sweetest in the world; but they have a different view of life. Yes, they will take care of their man as long as you are there to watch them closely and to pay for their whims; but in the end it is a zero sum game. It is just better to bed them, leave them, and keep everything on a paying basis. I have seen well educated non bar girls use a classification system; friend (no sex), good friend (sex sometimes), good good friend (sex all the time), and boyfriend (good sex as long as he pays for everything). In the end it is always money. Lying and deception is all part of the game, but it is an acceptable to them, but not acceptable for you to do. It is funny to see all the analysis of the Thai women in this forum. In the end it is simple. Pay money dummy.
Retired Army
09-27-07, 07:34
Thai women are sure the sweetest in the world; but they have a different view of life. Yes, they will take care of their man as long as you are there to watch them closely and to pay for their whims; but in the end it is a zero sum game. It is just better to bed them, leave them, and keep everything on a paying basis. I have seen well educated non bar girls use a classification system; friend (no sex), good friend (sex sometimes), good good friend (sex all the time), and boyfriend (good sex as long as he pays for everything). In the end it is always money. Lying and deception is all part of the game, but it is an acceptable to them, but not acceptable for you to do. It is funny to see all the analysis of the Thai women in this forum. In the end it is simple. Pay money dummy.
I suppose the reason you call yourself U.S. Mike is because you don't know squat about Thailand and Thai women. Having lived in Thailand for a long time and being married to a wonderful Thai woman I can honestly say that you don't know what you are talking about. What you say might be true for some of the girls you meet around Sukhumvit, Soi 7 or Pattaya, but is definately not the norm for the average Thai woman. Most of my friends are married to Thai women and they are the happiest, most satified group of men I have ever seen.
In the end it is simple. Pay money dummy.
I suppose in the States all the girls ar really anxious to go out with you and even pay you for your time. Lucky you.
Hey, hang out with bar girls and you have a bar girl for a companion. My current inamorata owns a small restaurant and is working on a law degree. She still finds time to take care of me. Yes, I usually buy the dinner and the movie tickets but she has never asked me for a dime for anything else.
I assure you, not every Thai woman is a hooker nor is every Thai woman anxious to get her hands on your wallet. Sure, I've had a few soapies and I've spent some time on Soi Cowboy but I'd never try to make one of these girls into a girlfriend. Nor would I judge every other girl in a country based on the sex workers.
I suppose the reason you call yourself U.S. Mike is because you don't know squat about Thailand and Thai women. Having lived in Thailand for a long time and being married to a wonderful Thai woman I can honestly say that you don't know what you are talking about. What you say might be true for some of the girls you meet around Sukhumvit, Soi 7 or Pattaya, but is definately not the norm for the average Thai woman. Most of my friends are married to Thai women and they are the happiest, most satified group of men I have ever seen.
This is reassuring.
But something about the 'face saving' and 'confrontation avoidance' and the 'make things easy and do what I want' -has me thinking Thais lie more than westerners.
True?
Or maybe it's just my experiences as a farang- an outsider. I'd like to be a "one world" guy and be PC, but the pragamatist in me has me thinking the lying is something to be aware of and adjust to.
Lies and deceit exist everywhere, and most cultures prefer to save face and avoid confrontation. P4P girls, of whatever race, lie and deceive more than most, often out of necessity. Mongers, businessmen and politicians everywhere do the same.
Outside the P4P scene, at least in my experience, it simply isn't true that Thais lie more than others. I find the same amount of honesty and dishonesty that I do everywhere. There are cultural differences, and there's a fair amount of what Westerners might call racisim, but I find the idea that Thais are fundamentally more deceitful than others very hard to accept.
This is reassuring.
But something about the 'face saving' and 'confrontation avoidance' and the 'make things easy and do what I want' -has me thinking Thais lie more than westerners.
True?
Or maybe it's just my experiences as a farang- an outsider. I'd like to be a "one world" guy and be PC, but the pragamatist in me has me thinking the lying is something to be aware of and adjust to.
Not much difference between Thai women & others, besides the obvious. The language barrier is a big advantage since that means more time for banging the shrimp and less wasting brain cells hearing their baloney. Live long and fuck, boys.
...Live long and fuck, boys.
Ah what a difference a comma does make!
But I post to comment on this exchange from another thread, more appropriate to this one:
Do you ever wonder about what goes on inside the head of that sweet little lady you are banging with all of your might?
Nothing. These girls are as dumb as posts. The deepest thought that might be going through her head is, "I'm hungry. Maybe, I'll get some som tam, khao nieo, gai yang after I finish."
Of course I don't pretend to have any idea what is going on within the mind of anyone else, least of all a foreign female, but wouldn't you say, OTH, that the thoughts which you attribute to the Thai Woman are really about the only reasonable ones for a poor working class person to have.
Old Thai Hand
10-07-07, 13:42
Of course I don't pretend to have any idea what is going on within the mind of anyone else, least of all a foreign female, but wouldn't you say, OTH, that the thoughts which you attribute to the Thai Woman are really about the only reasonable ones for a poor working class person to have.
Absolutely!
If you look at my original post that started this absurd exchange with people who seem to be overly sensitive, have no understanding of Thailand and have no sense of humour at all, it was meant as a tongue-in-cheek response to what I thought was a stupid question, "Do you ever wonder about what goes on inside the head of that sweet little lady you are banging with all of your might?". Who cares what they think?
Absolutely!
...it was meant as a tongue-in-cheek response to what I thought was a stupid question, "Do you ever wonder about what goes on inside the head of that sweet little lady you are banging with all of your might?". Who cares what they think?
Oh I do care what they think, most definitely. I do not disdain any fellow worker. You may have missed my point.. in my desire not to be strident I try to be as oblique as possible regarding politics.
PosterLion
10-11-07, 14:40
Nothing. These girls are as dumb as posts. The deepest thought that might be going through her head is, "I'm hungry. Maybe, I'll get some som tam, khao nieo, gai yang after I finish."
Sorry old chap, I know it appears that I am taking jabs at you, but this time I am attempting to add to the humor. Most of the Khlong Toei gal's would be thinking about their next hit of ya and the next game of rummy back home in the wooden shack with the gals.
just my experience or two cents . . .
p . . .
P.S. Here's an old post from the Khlong Toei days. You can find it yourself by seraching for the word "rummy." As a side note, We weren't staying in Khlong Toei on that particular evening.
Side note number two: God . . . I was such a rookie back then. :)
I Could Be Playing Rummy But I’d Rather Be Pensively Reflective
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wrote the title to this post after catching up with my literary pursuits via reading the WSG board. There was not much thought involved with writing it because it is a reflection (possibly a pensive one) of the reality of this night.
Two ladies are playing rummy on my bed while I hang out with you guys and my computer, much like C-B does in CM except My laptop is not positioned upon someone’s ass. Hey man, I love my laptop and I don’t want it getting too hot on top of some chick’s hot ass. Laptops need love and attention and good ventilation.
I’m not having a twosome tonight (thumbs up Duniawala). A friend of my new girlfriend dropped into Bangkok tonight to pick up some money that her European boyfriend wired to her. She claims to be living on the straight and narrow in Phuket while taking care to pinch every penny her “Love” sends her. She went so far as to claim that she spends a mere 4,000 Baht a month. I gave her a straight-faced-smile as she told me this while secretly rolling my eyes in the bowels of my imagination. Yeah right.
My girlfriend’s friend is a classic example of the Bar Girls you read about in books like “Private Dancer.” I knew she was the type of person that can’t be trusted the moment I met her. My girlfriend calls her a snake and also doesn’t trust her. I’ve often wondered why she keeps snakes for friends, but I figured it out after a while.
Bar Girls are not necessarily friends with everyone that appears to be their friend. Many times the relationship is formed because one girl has a client that likes to do twosomes or threesomes or some other specialty such as anal. As in any profession certain people possess certain skills or specialties. I’ve had similar friends in some of my former professions and I kept the relationship because of what they could do for me and they kept relations with me for the same reason.
The girl (snake) in question has so many specialties you can almost call her a general practitioner. She will fuck any man as she is without any biases, racial or otherwise. Wait! She does have one bias and it is “No money No Honey.” She does anal. In fact, she practices all forms of what we like to call perversion. She is also a natural born liar and possesses no scruples whatsoever.
I know all this because I fucked her on one occasion before hooking up with my girlfriend who is also aware of the incident. She didn’t like it when she found out but declared no harm no foul since we were not together at the time. It still causes friction between us because my girlfriend had a crush on me that I was unaware of at the time. The snake was aware of it though and that is one reason out of many my girlfriend calls her a snake. Needless to say, I don’t feel very comfortable when these two get together. Thankfully it is not often, especially now that the snake is shagging guys in Phuket while waiting for her boyfriend to return to Bangkok next month.
There is a feature of Thai culture that is known in the West as gaining face and it is for that very reason my girlfriend invited the snake to our room. I don’t think that gaining face is something unique to the Thai tradition as I’ve seen people do things for people they don’t like for the same reason where I come from. In the west we call it sucking up and it is generally detested when people talk about it. I think it is probably not liked much by the Thai people as well but it is such a common practice that nobody is publically embarrassed by kissing someone’s ass to gain favor.
My girlfriend keeps in touch with her old friends/associates because I did not become her boyfriend to “save” her from her profession. We had a talk about this before she moved in with me. During that talk she told me I was required to pay the rent and buy the provisions and that I must allow her to go with customers if she felt it necessary and I agreed to those terms. She has gone with two customers in ten weeks and I don’t mind such infrequent excursions.
She is a prostitute but I don’t feel sorry for her and she doesn’t feel sorry for herself either. One day we were drinking a beer somewhere on Sukhumvit just before sunset and all the people with normal jobs were queuing at the train station or the food stalls and she told me that she felt lucky to be a prostitute. She explained that she knew she could not work in an office because she had no training for that kind of work nor the personality for it.
“I can’t do a normal job because all I know is sex. I am lucky I know sex because I never think serious or worry about tomorrow. I can find customer quick quick everyday. Men from everywhere come to Thailand for boom boom so even though I lazy I fuck around the world. I thank my Buddha for that. That’s why I not understand Thaksin. Why he not like me? I like to make man happy and man come back Thailand many time for spend money. I know I good for Thailand, you believe me?”
“Of course darling.”
Anyway, here I am, sitting in my room (reflecting), while two girls play rummy on my bed with the television banging out some MTV tunes at low volume. It’s not exactly what I’d call an enviable position because it’s 05:18 and we are trying to be quiet because my gay neighbor likes to complain to management when sHE deems the decibels are too high. I guess sHE’s grown weary of the weekly fights my girlfriend and I need to keep our love flowing.
Sometimes I wonder if our love making is louder than our fights or if our neighbors confuse our nightly romp on the pillows with our boxing matches Maybe they think we are the street dogs howling at the passing ghosts. Who can know but it is a damn nice thing to reflect upon because our multi-hour sex sessions have recently ventured into the realm of fantasy and illusion.
My favorite thing is the blindfold. There is something marvelous about not being able to see the person that is ever so perfectly fucking my brains out, or as is often the case, sucking them out. Oh yes... I am not kidding. I appreciate every single hour of those 13 lovely years my new girlfriend spent learning her craft. I hope with the purest of intentions to one day wield my words as exquisitely as she wields my cock.
There are not many women on this planet (or in heaven for that matter) that can give you an orgasm that CUMS as effortlessly (not to mention as compulsively) as a yawn. Oh yes! YES YES YES YES YESSSSs! My dear boy, it is true. There is no doubt in my mind that I am experiencing the truest, most sincere, most sublime love that is humanly possible. After all, I am not a God (yet), and I require no alters.
Having a girlfriend with a craft that doesn’t bore me when we’re not having sex has its advantages. The main one I can think of is that I don’t need to waste time haunting Soi Nana or Soi Cowboy looking for a new skank every night that might tell me she is on her period or attempt some other well known hazard of the hunt after arriving at my room . Hell, maybe I’m just lazy, but I’ve done my share of hunting and when you stumble across a hapless prey that sucks and fucks better than the God’s deemed possible, it makes you take pause and consider alternative religions.
For instance, one might stroll down to Soi Three simply to dine on Tandori Chicken instead of following their penis to the Grace Hotel hoping to pork a leftover relic from Jurassic Park. Ali Baba must be grimacing in his grave at the thought of someone paying his castaway jewels for sex. On the other hand I think charity is a good and selfless act and I say “God bless” to each and to all that spend their time and their effort in search of those in need. It is truly gratifying to witness the miracle of the Christ-Child in such unlikely places.
Don’t get me wrong fellas. I enjoy sniffing out and flushing out P4P Poon-tang as long as I consider it a recreational event, but when you live here, when you do it on a daily basis, it no longer seems like recreation to me. I consider daily hunts almost as boring as a nine-to-five job. I realize that there are many of you (definitely one or two), that thrive best utilizing the tried-and-true hunting and gathering techniques passed down from our ancestors. Everyone has their own style and my style is trying to prove that the impossible is possible.
The girls are still playing cards and MTV is still banging out the tunes. They are in the middle of a Glam-rock segment and I am getting tired of hearing that genre but I’m too damn lazy to get up and change the channel. Besides, it’s near the bed and the girlfriend is almost out of money. She’s on a big losing steak and has been threatening to raid my wallet to pay her losses. Thankfully I stashed the large bills in my secret money sanctuary when I got wind that her friend would be dropping by.
It’s a tricky game keeping these girls out of the honey pot after they have given you the key to their kingdom, but it’s not impossible. The secret is to allow them small victories along the way to give them the feeling they can win the war. In a nut shell, it’s a little bit of luck combined with constant and relentless strategy. Be sure and take note of my tip from the last post. Eating Isaan food everyday not only gains you their favor, it is the absolute cheapest food you can buy in the Land of Oz and I think it tastes, “Grrrrreat!”
Excellent! My girl finally won a hand with a handsome pot. Good. I don’t need to think too much about my wallet for the time being.
I noticed a few cynical posts in the recent batch so this is a good time to change segments. I’ll call this the “I can’t believe it’s the cynical hour - hour.” I could also call it “The Hour of Unpublished Recent Scribbles and Reprints.” I dedicate this segment to the poster that penned “My 2nd Cynical Story About BKK.”
Dear Mr. Rugby Man,
It is highly appropriate that you are a hard cynic. It pays invaluable dividends to be a cynic when hunting for a prey that can maim you and kill you in ways far less desirable than death by Tsunami. At least drowning is a fairly easy death, or so I’ve heard. I somehow doubt that you are as “hard” a cynic as you need to be if this is the first time you have witnessed a disregard such as you just experienced. This infraction is of a minor degree in the grand scheme of the grand of schemers, but it contains very real and tangible hints of the brutal inclinations that have been ingrained in the psyche of most if not all of these girls.
Your cynical awareness needs to be hardened to the level that you realize the fact that a Bar Girl never lies. Once you have obtained the ability to grasp this physical truth your comprehension of the world will be altered as much as the comprehension of those brave souls that accidentally discovered that the earth is not flat, but round. A Bar Girl that has mastered the art of lying has accomplished something akin to an out of body experience.
You must understand that when a Bar Girl speaks she intrinsically believes every words she says. They have crafted the skill of manipulation to such a degree that they have no qualms about leading their victim to slaughter because that is their objective. It is akin to a lion or a tiger that stalks and kills and eats its prey. There is no guilt because they are guilty of nothing. In fact, there is every reason to feel good about themselves for they have proved they can survive. They have proved that they can hunt. They have proved that they can kill. It is the stuff that makes for a healthy appetite. When the feline carnivore eats it eats heartily. It is the same story with a Bar Girl.
Most humans call this animal behavior an instinct because they believe it is intrinsically wrong for one human to take advantage of another human via the art of deception or any of the other Seven Deadly Sins. This type of action is labeled as sin for most humans, but it is not labeled as sin for the animal kingdom. It is labeled as wild and Bar Girls really should be classified as something that is wild, even when they aren’t performing their most well known and desired acts.
I am not saying that you should treat them as less than human. It is considered immoral to treat a wild animal unjustly so I am not implying that you should treat them like a chicken being raised for slaughter. It’s not easy to explain what I am trying to tell you but believe me, you will understand this after you have tried to accomplish what is considered impossible once or twice. All I am trying to tell you (and it’s more like I’m trying to convey a sense of feeling or intuition) is that you need to treat Bar Girls as something more than human.
At the core of this intuitive knowledge is the ability to know when the killer has no inclination to kill. Wild animals have little fear of their predators when they know the predator is not hungry. It is something they have learned to sense and it is much the same type of thing you need to master with those wild things known as the Thai Bar Girl. I hope this makes some sort of sense.
Farewell and good luck, especially when defying all things impossible.
Poster
Now that I’m done with my letter writing practice I ought to write the letter to my Dad that I haven’t written for the last three months. Oh well, as my girlfriend once told me concerning her style with customers, “I try for finish quick quick. I never go long time with customer. I always think about time. I not want to lose time.” Then she snaps her finger while raising her left eyebrow and says, “You believe me?” Her style with customers has nothing to do with me not writing my Dad except that it conveys the feeling of helplessness one feels when you realize that time passes too quickly to accomplish every thing you want. The emotional angst of this realization is a common rationalization when rushing a customer or neglecting to write a letter to Dad, that’s all.
If you’ve read this far you might consider that I have been sitting here for five hours and the girls are still playing cards as if they just started. Thai women play cards with the highest level of gusto imaginable. I am convinced they are the card players card player. They play to win and they play until they have run out of energy or money or time. I could never have that much enthusiasm for the game, but then again, for them it’s not about playing a game nor is about energy or time, it’s all about the money. After they’ve fleeced their quarry with a quick screw the girls meet and play cards in an attempt to fleece each other for more money still.
The life of the Thai Bar Girl is an amazing phenomenon. I’ve been studying them first hand since November with complete and utter fascination. I am once again attending a university, sponging up every ounce of information I can get my hands on. All I can say is I am happy to have been accepted for undergraduate studies at Bar Girl University.
Now I have but one question left to ask. Will I graduate or not? That can’t be it can it?. It doesn’t sound right. It’s too simple, way too simple. Maybe the better question is this: Will I survive? That doesn’t sound much better either because no one survives. We all have to die sometime.
Maybe I can determine the right question if I think about what I have learned so far from the curriculum. Trying to formulate a question is a funny business. It’s a hell of a lot different than trying to answer a question that has already been asked. It now seems to me that most of the questions I’ve answered in my life were somehow unreasonable and should never have been asked in the first place.
I’m completely stuck inside this current line of thought. I can’t actually remember how I stumbled upon the question of what is the most pertinent question, but I have stumbled and now I can’t get up. The girls are still playing rummy. I’ve been sitting here for six hours and I am getting tired but I have to come up with an answer to this most pertinent of questions. Aha! Have I discovered it? I’ve been asking myself the most pertinent question all along and didn’t even know it. The most pertinent question one can ask themself is, “What is the most pertinent question?” Brilliant!
I was sitting on my couch for about five minutes with a big smile of triumph on my face for solving the riddle I’d created by accident when the ball fell and I was again crushed under the weight of another riddle that sprang into my head. What is the answer to the most pertinent of questions? Jesus H Christ! I have inadvertently created a more difficult riddle by solving the previous riddle. What a fucking mess. Why am I making up unsolvable riddles? What have I ever accomplished by asking and answering all these fucking questions?
I can’t say that I’ve really accomplished anything other than to stay alive and try to be happy, whatever that means (to stay alive and try to be happy), but it now seems a very sad fact that I haven’t got a clue. I look over at the girls and marvel at the amount of effort they put into playing cards to keep themselves occupied and I wonder if they are happy. It looks as if they might be? It also occurs to me how they would answer the most pertinent question, but I don’t think I’ll ask either one. I’m afraid they might think me crazy for asking such a thing. What would you think if out of the blue someone said to you, “Do you think you are happy? And by the way, what do you think is the most pertinent question you can ask?
I crack a smile that I imagine to be the smile of someone genuinely insane when my girlfriend puts her cards down and says, “I win!” Then she snaps her finger and raises her left eyebrow at her friend who is frowning because she did not win. My girlfriend sees that my glass is empty and asks me if I want a beer and I say, “Sure thing.” She comes over and gets my glass and looks at me in a questioning manner before going to pour my beer. After putting my beer on the coffee table she looks at me again and asks me if I’m happy. “I think so but I never know. Are you okay?”
“Yes! Have many happy. Play cards with friend.” Then she looks me again at me with her questioning look, Are you okay, sure? I don’t like you look serious”
“Yep yep. I’m okay. Don’t worry to much for me or I’ll think you serious too.” She laughs. We always joke with each other like that. It’s our style.
She goes back to her game and I stretch out on the couch and light a cigarette and have myself a long drink of the beer. Am I really happy? Damn! That’s it! Why didn’t I think of it? It must be the most pertinent question of all time. Then my mind throws another wrench at me when I wonder how one knows if one is or is not happy. I conclude that I obviously think too much and it is no wonder my girlfriend thinks I look too serious. I decide to resign myself to the wondrous act of sleeping.
Another day in Bangkok has come and gone. I’m lying on my couch trying to sleep and I’ve gotten to the point where I’m pretty sure sleep will be possible. I can hear the girls drawing and discarding their cards and after a few minutes my girlfriend wins another game and the image of her snapping her fingers and raising her left eyebrow pops into my head and I also recall the day she told me she doesn’t like to lose time when she goes with a customer. “I never go long time with customer. I not like to lose time.”
I open my eyes and look over at my girlfriend and she is also looking at me. “Are you happy?”, I say.
“Yes! Are you okay?” I could tell by the look on her face that she was happy.
“I’m very happy.” I said.
“You Sure?”
“Yes Ma’am.”
“You sleep now?”
“Yeah, I’m tired.” She pats her hand on the bed next to her, “You sleep here while I play cards then I sleep next to you when I finish.
It was then that every thing I had thought of during the last six hours came together as an understandable whole. I had an answer for everything. What is the most pertinent question? Easy! “Are you Happy?” How do you know you are happy? Piece of cake! “Do I feel like I’m losing time?” Right now I don’t feel like I’m losing time therefore I must be happy. Right?
Right or wrong things aren’t bad. I’ve got a warm body next to me. The air conditioner is working and there is plenty of food in the icebox. I’ve got money in the bank for now and I have a girlfriend that can make money if she wants too. I can’t think of much else that could make someone happier. Can You?
... I’ve got money in the bank for now and I have a girlfriend that can make money if she wants too. I can’t think of much else that could make someone happier. Can You?
Poster,
Sounds like you've found yourself a little slice of heaven there. You prove with each post that it's the little things that make us happy. Great writing, man!
Regards,
Daddy
Next vicitm please.
A 63-year-old Briton called for help from the authorities to force a Thai woman to return nearly 17 million baht of his money after she chased him out of her house.
Stephen Jones said he had met the swoman in Pattaya in 2001 and decided to sell all of his assets in England and give the money to her to buy a house and plots of land in Kalasin where the two would live together.
But the woman allegedly chased him out of the house two months ago after she had all of his money.
Flat broke and homeless, Mr. Jones said that he asked his money back so that he could return to his homeland.
The Kalasin chief public prosecutor said the woman could not yet be charged with cheating because the two are married.
His office would investigate to see if the assets had been bought with Mr. Jones' money or not and would see if Jones had willingly given the assets to the woman, he said.
It was posiible that Jones could sue the woman for equal division of the assets, he added.How much better can it get ? Stupidity takes yet another lesson.
That's about £265,000 or US$540,000. Just wow is all I got to say... where is Darwin?
An excellent categorization of the Indonesian girls that fits the Thai equally.
http://jakartablokm.com/characters/girls.htm
Thank you all for your advice.
I am seeing her Tomorrow evening and will report on what happened.NicFrenchy,
I was busy R'ing TFF, and I read with great interest your tale about the Paragon girl and the whole issue with her not wanting you to use protection etc. But I never saw any followups to that story, how did that turn out eventually?
Thanks
NicFrenchy
10-15-07, 18:53
NicFrenchy,
I was busy R'ing TFF, and I read with great interest your tale about the Paragon girl and the whole issue with her not wanting you to use protection etc. But I never saw any followups to that story, how did that turn out eventually?
ThanksHi LA Guy,
The Paragon Girl cancelled on me LOL. She called me to tell me she could not meet at the agreed time and Date (so I figured another "Higher-up" Farang was available). She asked when we could see each other again but I never called her back and we SMS each other from time to time. Will see how this develops but I will make no effort to get her, she will have to make the efforts LOL.
Based on my experience it is far better to take a decent looking TG, 6 on a scale of 1 to 10, who gives good service and attitude, than a hot looking TG, 8 to 10, who gives average service and attitude. For the former I will end up happy and probably pay less.
If you believe in Karma, then I'd suggest taking the ugliest chick you can once a week so she can feed her babies. Maybe she can lick your ball sacks for 2 hours for 100 baht.
Thai ladies like big foreign dicks. Stuffing a small tissue bag in your shorts before talking to freelancers can make them feel like they are getting more bang from their farang. Its only right, since they wear padded bras, to level the playing field.
There has been much discussion about regular Thai girls versus P4P girls on this board in the past with no one ever explaining the composition of a regular (?) Thai girl. At first glance some may say such an explanation is oxymoronic but muse on that for a moment and it may surprise you. Some posters here (angry OTH) have gone out of their way to portray regular Thai women like angelic graceful creatures who are from another planet way beyond reproach.
Some time ago I received a solicitation from a lady promoting an escort site. The girls were extremely beautiful and I immediately suspected it to be a hoax or a bait and switch. That didn’t stop me though; I wanted to see for myself what I already knew. I called them up them up and booked a girl, she showed up later, but as I expected and was hoping against hope she was not the girl from the site. I told her to leave but she stopped to apologize, she had a good command of the English language and we talked for about 20 minutes where she disclosed to me that she worked at a large hotel in the Silomn area but moonlighted on the side, she even showed me her hotel ID. She talked about some of her friends with regular jobs who worked as escorts on the side and a little bit about how none of the girls on the escort sites actually worked for the agency.
I have heard stories about falangs hooking up with hotel receptionists (although the purist here will deny this) from various hotels. There are pan-handlers and boot-leggers at MBK who can hook you up (for what would be considered to be a hefty price for some on this board) with girls who have regular jobs and if you ever get a taxi driver as I have, he can also connect the dots for you. I am not promoting these methods just disclosing that they do exist but for a variety of factors may or may not work for you, but my point here is that there is no empirical data to support who is actually involve in P4P beyond the obvious girls in P4P location if this is the key denominator in determining regular versus P4P.
So the question is when does a girl cross the line from being a pure Thai girl to a P4P? If she does her stuff on the side, which side is she on, P4P or regular girl, or is she in the middle? In a country where money seems to be the premium common denominator to all things, how can anyone with a straight face say they know who a regular girl is? How does any of us know that she does not lie on her back or get on her knees to make that extra chunk of change? There are some who boldly claim that they have GFs who have never been anywhere near P4P, my question is how do you know? Unless you have been with them all their lives, you don’t really know. You can have so call “regular” girls who are bitc*es from hell and a sweet one from P4P but the converse is also true. I am just not smart enough to decipher what a regular Thai girl is and how does anyone know that she is not involved in P4P in some form (may not be with falang, may be only certain few) My answer is that you don’t so if you find a girls that you like, screw the purist, it’s your life, if you want to be with her then so be it. Of course she may have polished off a many a knob before but use her experience in that area to your advantage to polish your knob.
If I hear one more poster boasting about regular Thai girls without clearly explaining what that means I am coming through this computer Phil Hendrie style and giving you this foot in pic one.
Also can u tell who are the regular girls or the P4P in the pics below?
Old Thai Hand
10-22-07, 14:41
Run
See my answer to you in Fight Club.
The P4P girls I'm referring to are the ones that Farang usually end up (those same hard-core HOs down at the embassy. to which Junglebird referred in his original post), not the hotel receptionist, shop-girl or secretary who may occasionally turn a trick on the side. But, I suppose that I'm now qualifying (and therefore weakening) my argument.
Your post and your questioning of this is quite reasonable. It's true that when I talk about this comparison I'm thinking of the Nana/Soi Cowboy/Patpong/Pattaya type of girls that are in the main, the girls most Farang visitors encounter. They are very different from the norm. Maybe I should have just used the term normal Thai girl, although that could also be questioned, I suppose. Let's just say that unlike the occasional hotel receptionist shagging to meet the rent, the girls that are in the business as a job (go-go girls, freelancers at the Beer Garden everyday etc.) are so far outside the norms of the culture and the norms of how Thai women usually behave, that most Farang have the wrong idea about Thai women in general. My comparison of them in the earlier post (I hate P4P girls vs. I love Thai girls) was accurate. But, the P4P girls to whom I referred, and who I hate are the hard-core types at the well-known venues.
If you read my post in the fight club, my droning (yes, I know I'm droning, preaching or whatever) is based on being pissed off (yes, I'm angry on this one) because of personal experiences. Besides the experiences of my GF, I've had students complain of being harrassed by Farang at MBK, Siam Square or other out-of-the-norm places. I suspect that at least part of this is due to boards like this telling guys that it's open season anywhere and all Thai girls are fair game. This just pisses me off and yes does make me angry. These guys wouldn't pull this shit in their own countries. If they did, they'd get arrested.
But, ok. I'll stop now. There's nothing I can do anyway to change the minds of a bunch of Neanderthals who fresh off the plane spread out like a bunch of horny teenagers on Spring break, wothout regard for where they are and who they're dealing with.
Retired Army
10-22-07, 16:13
Thai ladies like big foreign dicks. Stuffing a small tissue bag in your shorts before talking to freelancers can make them feel like they are getting more bang from their farang. Its only right, since they wear padded bras, to level the playing field.
When I was young I went to the beach to pick up some girls and wanted to make a good first inpression. One of my friends told me to put a potato in my tight fitting swiming trunks. I did, but couldn't get any girls, until my friend told me to put the potato in the front not the back.
I think there should be a law against Thai girls wearing the Wonder Bra. It's false advertising.
Retired Army
10-22-07, 16:40
There has been much discussion about regular Thai girls versus P4P girls on this board in the past with no one ever explaining the composition of a regular (?) Thai girl.
From your posting it extremely clear that you don't know squat about Thai's, Thai culture and Thai women in particular.
Some posters here (angry OTH) have gone out of their way to portray regular Thai women like angelic graceful creatures who are from another planet way beyond reproach.
If you live in Thailand long enough and get away from the areas that cater to the "sex tourists" and meet the good, honest, decent hard working Thai's like I have and get to know them and their culture it's not hard to find a beautiful, angelic, graceful Thai girl to be with. I know hundreds that would make wonderful wives. One of them is a beautiful school teacher, 30 years old and definitely a virgin. I know great women 20 - 40 years of age that are still living at home and have never done the "tube steak boogie."[/QUOTE]
I am just not smart enough to decipher what a regular Thai girl is and how does anyone know that she is not involved in P4P in some form.
This ain't no lie. If you know Thai's, you know that 99% of Thai girls are not involved in the P4P trade. Most farangs don't get to see the real side of Thai culture and Thai women. They think that Sukhumvit Soi 7 Bier Garten and Soi Cowboy are the norm; it ain't, it's the exception.
If I hear one more poster boasting about regular Thai girls without clearly explaining what that means I am coming through this computer Phil Hendrie style and giving you this foot in pic one.
If this answer doesn't satisfy you, them bring it on big boy. Anytime, anyplace! From the photo I figure if I can't kick your ass I can at least out run you :)
I normally do not respond to imbeciles but obviously when you retired from the Army your brained retired too, Sober up and a get a brain you may figure out that the foot in the photo is not me. Jeez! As for the rest of your post, who ever said its funny to be wise when ignorance is at bliss had you in mind.
From your posting it extremely clear that you don't know squat about Thai's, Thai culture and Thai women in particular.
If you live in Thailand long enough and get away from the areas that cater to the "sex tourists" and meet the good, honest, decent hard working Thai's like I have and get to know them and their culture it's not hard to find a beautiful, angelic, graceful Thai girl to be with. I know hundreds that would make wonderful wives. One of them is a beautiful school teacher, 30 years old and definitely a virgin. I know great women 20 - 40 years of age that are still living at home and have never done the "tube steak boogie."
This ain't no lie. If you know Thai's, you know that 99% of Thai girls are not involved in the P4P trade. Most farangs don't get to see the real side of Thai culture and Thai women. They think that Sukhumvit Soi 7 Bier Garten and Soi Cowboy are the norm; it ain't, it's the exception.
If this answer doesn't satisfy you, them bring it on big boy. Anytime, anyplace! From the photo I figure if I can't kick your ass I can at least out run you :)[/QUOTE]
Retired Army
10-22-07, 17:00
I normally do not respond to imbeciles but obviously when you retired from the Army your brained retired too, Sober up and a get a brain you may figure out that the foot in the photo is not me. Jeez! As for the rest of your post, who ever said its funny to be wise when ignorance is at bliss had you in mind.
I guess it takes one to know one...
it's 09:00 in the morning for me, so I am sober and on my second pot of coffee.
Now, how would I know that's not your foot?
As for the rest of your post, what the hell are you trying to say?
Terry Terrier
10-25-07, 11:40
Anyway, as always happens here, this debate has moved.....to a social issue of the poor vs. the rich.
Of course it's about economics. Always has been and always will be. It isn't some strange coincidence that mass-prostitution dried up in countries such as Korea and Japan once the masses were given some of the candy when those countries' economies began to flourish. Just as it's no coincidence that keeping the masses near to the poverty line has resulted in ongoing mass prostitution in countries such as The Philippines and Thailand. Thailand, in particular, has got itself into an awful mess over this and there seems not to be the will nor the inclination among the movers and shakers of the country to clean things up. Who owns Nana Plaza?
There are ongoing suggestions on this forum from the expats that Thailand's poor international image is due to it's large number of prostitutes (many of whom, it's said, take their poor image abroad when they marry farang), and low quality tourists. This is as preposterous as blaming a dose of the 'flu on that runny nose or headache. Cause and effect. Thailand (like any other country) gets the tourists it deserves. There's no easy way out, but farang expat managers and uni lecturers can play a part by starting the ball rolling with better wages for their staff/ educating the next generation of movers and shakers about the importance of social and economic inclusion in Thailand's progression as a nation. But instead, they often appear on sex forums, full of half-baked cynicism whinging about that runny nose and headache.
I cannot see any reason why any government should let these people in. Truth is Thai sex pro's end up doing overseas exactly what they doing here, screwing for money.
I had a long, uninteresting drive to a business meeting this morning. And thinking about the discussions on expat Thai former bargirls working as prostitutes took me back to my initial interest in shagging Thai women. I had been an habitual user of massage parlours (brothels) in the UK city of Manchester, not far from my home town. Now, anyone familiar with the punting scene in Manchester will know that it quietly became the punting 'capital' of the UK following the retirement of it's puritanical, lay Methodist preacher head of police, James Anderton. Subsequent CC's have operated a 'turn a blind eye' policy toward brothels so long as an orderly house is kept, with no adjacent crime such as drugs or money laundering. This has resulted in approximately one hundred 'massage parlours' opening up in and around the city centre. Like I said, I used these places quite a lot. One day, about six years ago, I shagged my first Thai girl in one of them (a dark, thick-lipped Issarn girl from Korat), and discovered that I had, er, quite a taste for this particular type of 'look'. I'm sad to admit that over the next two-or-so years I became quite obsessive about finding and shagging Thai women working in Manchester brothels, daily checking website rotas and 'phoning round trying to find anyone new. I also looked out for adverts by independants. Like I said, sad, I know. And I doubt that many, if any Thai women working in local prostitution got under my radar in that period of my life. By the way, the total number of different Thai prostitutes I shagged in Manchester was 23, with 4 of them working regularly over that period (one is still working today) and the rest coming and going for greater and lesser periods.
Now, we are told by Manchester Thai community leaders that there are in excess of 3000 expat Thais living locally, nearly all of whom are women who are/ were married to local farang. I think it's safe to assume that at least half of these women are ex-bargirls (and I also think that's a conservative estimate). That makes it less than two percent of ex-bargirls in Manchester working in prostitution. I know my statistics aren't perfect, but I think I'm in the ball park with them. By the way, most of the local Thai women I see out and about are shopping with their Luk Kreung kids, working in local restaurants, schools, hospitals, generally being boringly normal members of their local communities, being excellent ambassadors for their country of birth. And being cases in point about economics and Thai prostitution: Take the girl out of the bar, give her a reasonably comfortable lifestyle with some reasonable aspirations, and you will in most cases take the bar out of the girl.
Blunderer, I read some statistics somewhere a while ago that showed Thai/ farang marriage failure-rates in the UK to be very slightly higher than the overall national average. I've just done a quick search, but I can't find them. Would be interesting to see the detailed breakdown (no pun intended :)) of these statistics again if anyone finds them.
Grrdnorton
10-25-07, 16:28
Some years ago I met this waitress in the 4-star fortune hotel BKK and had some ''nice experience'' with her. Just wandering if other people also had some nice moments with staff from this hotel?
Retired Army
10-25-07, 16:50
thailand, in particular, has got itself into an awful mess over this and there seems not to be the will nor the inclination among the movers and shakers of the country to clean things up. who owns nana plaza?.
a lot of this problem are the thai's themselves. for a lot of girls it's a lot easier to be a prostitute than pick rice in korat. and the money is a lot better. even if they get a job in an industry, it's still easier to lay on your back than work on an assembly line.
there are ongoing suggestions on this forum from the expats that thailand's poor international image is due to it's large number of prostitutes (many of whom, it's said, take their poor image abroad when they marry farang), and low quality tourists...
i think some of the bad image comes from the caliber of men who come to thailand, marry thai bar-girls and take them back to europe (or wherever) where they continue to act like bar girls. most of these guys are real slime and loosers.
thailand (like any other country) gets the tourists it deserves. there's no easy way out, but farang expat managers and uni lecturers can play a part by starting the ball rolling with better wages for their staff/ educating the next generation of movers and shakers about the importance of social and economic inclusion in thailand's progression as a nation. but instead, they often appear on sex forums, full of half-baked cynicism whinging about that runny nose and headache..
thailand has a very large middle class, you just don't see much of it in the tourist areas.
and being cases in point about economics and thai prostitution: take the girl out of the bar, give her a reasonably comfortable lifestyle with some reasonable aspirations, and you will in most cases take the bar out of the girl..
this has not been my observation. perhaps given enough time and incentive it's possible. probably a function of how long a girl was in the bar before being "rescued by her white knight."
but, because my wife is quick to point out if a thai girl has been a bar girl because of her speech and demeanor, i probably have somewhat of skewed observation point. ordinairly, i might not be able to notice the difference.
yes, but no. i see a lot of girls from thailand in europe. a lot of them are ex-bar girls, but some of them are not. the ones i know are mostly not bar girls, but that's because of the men they are married to are of a more "professional class." by that i mean, at minimum, a college degree and security clearance.
well, as i said, i hardly know any and don't know any well.
i did get a chuckle about a security clearance being indicative of 'professional class' - i think that must be a function of your particularly industry than anything else.
my wife has excellent english skills and was never a bar girl. she has a master's degree in english and taught at a university in bkk.
should have thought this through... i was thinking of the bar girl perspective when i said this... understandably in my opinion. as i said, i've not seen many thai/farang unions where the thai is middle/upper class. i can think of precisely 3, twice the male as farang (and in one of those instances the family made the man jump through a bunch of hoops, in the other, which was far wealthier, he was treated much like a courter would be treated in the west). the female farang had no trouble from the family at all.
all 3 of these unions have since failed.
yes. i am long in the tooth and don't give a damn about the family thing. who want's to change [CodeWord131] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131) (nappy's) at 55?
haha, thinking of the ones i have seen as succeeded, i wasn't suggesting having a family to increase the length of your relationship!
not sure what this means. is it a matter of wealth or class?
i am not sure either, i was just presenting the data as i see it, the interpretation of that data is a much trickier proposition.
absolutely correct! if you want a yappy type either get a poodle or marry a western witch. speak when spoken to is my mantra. i also tell my wife that if i want her opinion i will give it to her. (this ensures no sex for a few days).
bah, i like women with a bit of fire.
i fucking hate myself for liking women like that.
i don't know about this, but it has some validity because i have seen both sides. guys who fall in love with the first girl they meet (that's more a statement about the guy than the girl). and others, like me and my co-workers, whom have lived in thailand for a long time before meeting a suitable girl.
well, the long termers either go hardcore or drift into polite society. i'm always surprised by the number that go in the direction of the latter.
i've got an appointment now, so finishing v quickly otherwise i would have a lot more to say there.
if you can't get them out of the country, how can the relationship not take place in thailand? if a guy meets a girl on a two week trip, them applies for a k-1 (sweetheart) visa and only has 90 days to marry her, then of course, there is going to be a high degree of failure. i lived with my wife for four years, both in thailand and in europe, before marrying her.
i meant get the girl out as quickly as possible.
also wasn't claiming there was a high degree of success, just a higher one than i've seen with 'regular' thai/farang relationships.
it comes down to this: you can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl. if you take an ex-bar girl back to "civilized society" you can see where there might be problems. imaging christmas dinner with mom, pop, grandparents and the rest of the family as your "wife" drains the liquor cabinet, proceeds cuss like a sailor on shore leave, take off her clothes, look for a pole to dance with and starts to tell pop and grandpop that they are hansome men and she "loves them too much."
yep, and the less time she's spent in the bar, the less of the bug she's picked up.
this is probably true because a bar girl has more life experience and can adapt easier to tough situations. plus, they can always earn a living by taking off their clothes, dancing with a pole and telling men they are hansome and she loves them too much.
hmm... that seems completely contrary to my last comment.
with respect to you and your wife. it is very possible that what i have seen is misrepresenative of reality (in terms of which relationships succeed and fail). if not, all the more kudos to you.
in any event, non of this is science is it... as a sciency type, i am reluctant to state my tainted observations, let alone attempt to draw trends and hypotheses from them.
Blunderers words on knowing whats happening but letting it happen struck a chord with me.
Presently in a circumstance where i have been seeing just the one girl approx every 6 weeks, visiting Bkk approx a week at a time, for the last year or two. I've been up and stayed "in the village" at her parents home, met family and friends repeatedly, and always stay in her apartment in Bkk when there. She has come to Australia for a visit. I'm twice her age. She's a working girl. She goes out from time to time and looks to get "customer".
I would admit absolutely to having grown very fond of her. I know i am deluding myself but figure as long as i know that, then it can't be called delusion, its really just a fantasy that i'm enjoying. Having a spontaneous bbbj whilst driving down the M5 Sydney is not something that normally happens to me, and absolutely contributes to the fantasy!
Early on i sorted out that no matter what i sent her, she would still have the urge from time to time to go and get some more cash from the ATMs walking around. so i don't put the pressure on myself to try and stop that (i know i won't). I have to admit that i struggle at times to keep my head straight - but its worth it!
Ozirob
Blunderers words on knowing whats happening but letting it happen struck a chord with me.
Presently in a circumstance where i have been seeing just the one girl approx every 6 weeks, visiting Bkk approx a week at a time, for the last year or two. I've been up and stayed "in the village" at her parents home, met family and friends repeatedly, and always stay in her apartment in Bkk when there. She has come to Australia for a visit. I'm twice her age. She's a working girl. She goes out from time to time and looks to get "customer".
I would admit absolutely to having grown very fond of her. I know i am deluding myself but figure as long as i know that, then it can't be called delusion, its really just a fantasy that i'm enjoying. Having a spontaneous bbbj whilst driving down the M5 Sydney is not something that normally happens to me, and absolutely contributes to the fantasy!
Early on i sorted out that no matter what i sent her, she would still have the urge from time to time to go and get some more cash from the ATMs walking around. so i don't put the pressure on myself to try and stop that (i know i won't). I have to admit that i struggle at times to keep my head straight - but its worth it!
Ozirob
Ozirob
Sound very familiar! I too visit to see a certain lady, Not even a stunner by most people standards (lot lizard from Nana) who I help during my absense knowing full well she's searching for Customers everynight. My name is ATM, Hers Cock Sucker!! When in BKK she works every night and I see her when I feel like, after partying. I think its OK. Its there job and thats all! Fucking is
a profession like any other and we should'nt kid ourselves thinking were special, But if they treat us special! Thats an individual perception!
I treat her with respect which is different than most do! I have a good time and never shop in her neighborhood. Sending a pittance every now and then won't break me and makes her life alittle easier! What the hell!
Enjoy it for what it is and keep your wits about you!
Jungle Bluebird
10-26-07, 07:07
I am impressed how honest you guys are. Somehow though I am amazed by what I read. Is that really that bad when it comes to girls in Australia or wherever?
Sure this is a personal thing. From my end, due to upbringing I was always more on the selfish side with girls. There was never a shortage and I 'used' them in anyway it suited me. I found getting older this 'selfishness' also protected me against any temptation to do something utterly stupid.
The older I get, I acknowledge my true motivations when it comes to girls. So women I meet are quickly assessed and categorized based on realistic perceptions. With this in mind I find that most Thai women are sweet, sexy yes, and completely boring. Behind the pretty façade is mostly emptiness and to an extend manic depression. And I am not referring to P4P girls, as these are mostly mental.
I must admit I am in Thailand close to 20 years and yes, I had ample little sweet hearts. With this in mind I find stories as yours or Ozirob’s very hard to understand.
But your honesty is certainly impressive, as you clearly know what you are getting into.
JB
...Sound very familiar! I too visit to see a certain lady...
I must admit I am in Thailand close to 20 years and yes, I had ample little sweet hearts. With this in mind I find stories as yours or Ozirob’s very hard to understand.
But your honesty is certainly impressive, as you clearly know what you are getting into.
JB
It is like anything else I think. Some guys are born with certain survival instincts that other lack. Some people are cold cunts who are never emotionally impacted by anything, some people can't help but become emotionally entangled with everything and anything. You could fall into one of these categories, but it is unlikely.
The bulk of us need to learn this stuff, we're don't fall out of the test tube with instincts that deal with it adequately, and, we are too pigheaded to take heed of what we read, see, or are told.
Frankly, I like (or can't help) getting swept up with the emotional side of things. The story I told was from my 20s, and, it was an immensely valuable learning experience. I am now far less likely to fall for something more dangerous... I hope :D
Old Thai Hand
10-26-07, 11:41
With this in mind I find that most Thai women are sweet, sexy yes, and completely boring. Behind the pretty façade is mostly emptiness and to an extend manic depression. And I am not referring to P4P girls, as these are mostly mental.
Absolutely, Spot on!
With a Non-P4P girl enter with no illusion of meaningful conversations or level-headed emotions. Keep them for mostly pleasant company and a good fuck and develop lots of friendships with intelligent mates with whom you can actually talk about things.
P4P girls are to be enjoyed and dumped as quickly as the deed is done. They are fucking nuts...the lot of them!
Retired Army
10-26-07, 15:58
Is that really that bad when it comes to girls in Australia or wherever?
it is for American women
The older I get, I acknowledge my true motivations when it comes to girls. So women I meet are quickly assessed and categorized based on realistic perceptions. With this in mind I find that most Thai women are sweet, sexy yes, and completely boring. Behind the pretty façade is mostly emptiness and to an extend manic depression. And I am not referring to P4P girls, as these are mostly mental.
Sweet, sexy yes, emptiness, no way. A little boring, yes, compared to the mental cases you find in the US. And is boring all that bad at our age?
I have had two American wives and one Thai. And I will honestly tell you that the Thai is by far the best. I would trade her for anything or anyone.
Retired Army
10-26-07, 16:05
Absolutely, Spot on!
With a Non-P4P girl enter with no illusion of meaningful conversations or level-headed emotions. Keep them for mostly pleasant company and a good fuck and develop lots of friendships with intelligent mates with whom you can actually talk about things.
P4P girls are to be enjoyed and dumped as quickly as the deed is done. They are fucking nuts...the lot of them!
I disagree with you on this. I know many, many non-P4P Thai women that are as smart and interesting as any Western woman. Just more easy to get along with.
I have also know several P4P girls that were smart, but lazy. Instead of working hard at a "regular" job they chose to spread their legs, give BJs and take it up the ass.
But, I do agree with you that P4P girls are just that. Find them, Frag them. and then Forget them.
Old Thai Hand
10-26-07, 18:21
I disagree with you on this. I know many, many non-P4P Thai women that are as smart and interesting as any Western woman. Just more easy to get along with.
Ya, I know. Just trying to be a bit of a provocateur. My GF is pretty smart, actually and quite entertaining. But, I have to also admit that I've met more than my fair share of really boring Thai women over the years. But, at least even they were charming and pleasant to be with, if not too interesting to talk to. Now when I go home to Canada, I find the women really grate on the nerves. So, even the boring, albeit pleasant company of Thai women is light years ahead of intelligent but abrasive Western women.
However, I still maintain that most P4P girls - (except for the occasional freelancers making a bit of extra cash) - especially those in the GoGos are really nuts. The girls in Pattaya are doubly so - I find them almost frightening in their craziness. I've just seen too much over the years to be convinced of anything else. So, why anyone in his right mind would even remotely consider making one of these his GF, let alone his wife is beyond me. 3F, 3F, 3F!!!!
Retired Army
10-26-07, 20:39
However, I still maintain that most P4P girls - (except for the occasional freelancers making a bit of extra cash) - especially those in the GoGos are really nuts. The girls in Pattaya are doubly so - I find them almost frightening in their craziness. I've just seen too much over the years to be convinced of anything else. So, why anyone in his right mind would even remotely consider making one of these his GF, let alone his wife is beyond me. 3F, 3F, 3F!!!!
Well yeah, just look at the guys they have to deal with on a regular basis.
Jungle Bluebird
10-27-07, 03:33
Hmmm not sure about this one. Example. The other night I watched on UBC a piece on a Danish tall ship crossing the Atlantic. Ok, now I do not expect my Thai wife to appreciate the romantic aspects of old sailing vessels LOL, but I do have a thing for sailing, so felt I need to share my excitement. It bounced right off. I mean, what do I expect, there is simply no connection against my upbringing with all it's true experiences and dreams still left.
Take music, politics or simply a greater view on how this world connects. Fact is that majority of Thai's are rather disconnected. Yes, the women are sweet, good hearted and sexy, but overall on a different planet.
One character attribute Thai women surely have an edge over women in Europe or the US/Canada is their positive nature.
I have come to the conclusion one cannot have all.
JB
.. I disagree with you on this. I know many, many non-P4P Thai women that are as smart and interesting as any Western woman. Just more easy to get along with..
Old Thai Hand
10-27-07, 03:34
Well yeah, just look at the guys they have to deal with on a regular basis.
True enough.
I have been quite condescending and derisive on many occasion about the girls in P4P. But, lately I have grown to really pity them in light of the slime with whom they are forced to conduct business. Is it just my imagination, or has the bar been lowered to such an extent that it appears that they're emptying the jails and assylums and sending them all over here?
I saw a real bute on my way home from work yesterday - tattoed from head to toe, dirty, straggly gray hair, smelled like a toilet and was (of course) wearing the requisite (stained) Singha Beer singlet. But, to add insult to injury he was actually wearing swimming trunks and flip-flops on the BTS. Needless-to-say, the "beach-bum" got off at Nana and one can only assume headed to the Beer Garden or that outside bar at Nana Hotel to enjoy his well-deserved escape from reality.
Sure makes a good impression on the locals.
... I saw a real bute on my way home from work yesterday - tattoed from head to toe, dirty, straggly gray hair, smelled like a toilet and was (of course) wearing the requisite (stained) Singha Beer singlet. But, to add insult to injury he was actually wearing swimming trunks and flip-flops on the BTS. Needless-to-say, the "beach-bum" got off at Nana and one can only assume headed to the Beer Garden or that outside bar at Nana Hotel to enjoy his well-deserved escape from reality.
Sure makes a good impression on the locals.
What???!!! Do you mean that some animal actually escaped from the Pattaya zoo and found its way to Bangkok??? Or are you prepared to admit now that there is a farang zoo where you live as well? Yes, I've seen the same kinds of animals there too.
Regards,
Daddy
Retired Army
10-27-07, 03:56
Hmmm not sure about this one. Example. The other night I watched on UBC a piece on a Danish tall ship crossing the Atlantic. Ok, now I do not expect my Thai wife to appreciate the romantic aspects of old sailing vessels LOL, but I do have a thing for sailing, so felt I need to share my excitement. It bounced right off. I mean, what do I expect, there is simply no connection against my upbringing with all it's true experiences and dreams still left.
JB
I understand what you are saying and there is a certain amount of logic. When I talk about American History, WWII or the military my wife's eyes glaze over. But get her talking about King Rama whatever or the gramatical rules of English and I am totally overwhelmed. It all depends on what a person is interested in or passionate about.
Now if anyone can explain why she is hooked on the Jerry Springer Show? I am afraid that she will come to think that the people on his show are typical of the average American.
Retired Army
10-27-07, 04:01
True enough.
I saw a real bute on my way home from work yesterday - tattoed from head to toe, dirty, straggly gray hair, smelled like a toilet and was (of course) wearing the requisite (stained) Singha Beer singlet. But, to add insult to injury he was actually wearing swimming trunks and flip-flops on the BTS. Needless-to-say, the "beach-bum" got off at Nana and one can only assume headed to the Beer Garden or that outside bar at Nana Hotel to enjoy his well-deserved escape from reality.
Sure makes a good impression on the locals.
These individuals don't care what anyone thinks about them. They are under the mistaken belief that they can come to Thailand and do exactly as they want and no one will give a damn. Just like Jerry Springer's guests.
People like this are one of the reasons I made the decision to leave Thailand.
FritsVanegter
10-27-07, 10:42
Hello,
The average Thai doesn't have a clue about what is going on outside their country. But what about the average US citizen? Normally they will access to a much larger heap of information because of their wealth and much larger educational system ( if you can afford to pay it) But ignorance is well spread all over the world. Maybe in Thailand it is amplified by their imposed xenofobic culture. One time i did wear a t-shirt stating that money is the real religion ( in THAI language). Just had it made to express that i came across this truth so often when dealing with Thai people. And they seem to be the ideal victims for the marketing people. Some Thai did have more mobile phones than they did acquire a book. In fact i think a lot of Thai cannot read properly at all. They love to chat during work time, eat too but do some reading?? What the heck. But we still keep returning there. Tell your Thai friends about the English skills in Malaysia, the enthousiasm of the Vietnamese to improve their english and they will get upset. Tell them it is just a clear observation and they even get angry. BUT it is still a fascinating country for holiday but would never want it to be my home, Frits
Old Thai Hand
10-27-07, 11:14
What???!!! Do you mean that some animal actually escaped from the Pattaya zoo and found its way to Bangkok??? Or are you prepared to admit now that there is a farang zoo where you live as well? Yes, I've seen the same kinds of animals there too.
Regards,
Daddy
Yes, and unfortunately here, they're roaming free without restraint or constraint. When one is spotted, it would be nice to have an elephant gun to bring the beast down.
M P Lurker
10-27-07, 11:55
These individuals don't care what anyone thinks about them. They are under the mistaken belief that they can come to Thailand and do exactly as they want and no one will give a damn. Just like Jerry Springer's guests.
People like this are one of the reasons I made the decision to leave Thailand.
Why not just stay away from touristy areas like Patthaya, Nana Car park, etc.
You might not have so many ugly westerners to put up with in non-tourist areas. You will find the people you are trying to avoid back home as well.
I have been amazed by 2 English guys discussing very sordid disrespectful topics at the top of their voice at the Hotel breakfast table, so I know what you mean. I tought they should be deported for inflicting their noise pollution on us. You would think they could have some decorum at the breakfast table. On the other hand Thais seem to use very loud voices when speaking on their cell phones at restaurants. This is also irritating.
Perhaps ugly behaviour is everywhere.
I am not immune from behaving impolitely at times too.
Terry Terrier
10-27-07, 12:26
Maybe Jackson should re-name this thread 'Farang Men - Opinions & Advice' or maybe 'The Expat Lounge'.
Ah, yes, singlets. I bought a Singha one, a story which involved an unbearably hot day in Jomtien and a choice between Singha, Chang and (horror of horrors) Harley Davidson. What a relief from the searing heat, and only 60bt, to boot! Still have it, and intend to wear it to the next fancy dress party as 'Cheap Charly'.
Ozirob
Sound very familiar! I too visit to see a certain lady, Not even a stunner by most people standards (lot lizard from Nana) who I help during my absense knowing full well she's searching for Customers everynight. My name is ATM, Hers Cock Sucker!! When in BKK she works every night and I see her when I feel like, after partying. I think its OK. Its there job and thats all! Fucking is
a profession like any other and we should'nt kid ourselves thinking were special, But if they treat us special! Thats an individual perception!
I treat her with respect which is different than most do! I have a good time and never shop in her neighborhood. Sending a pittance every now and then won't break me and makes her life alittle easier! What the hell!
Enjoy it for what it is and keep your wits about you!
Can't say that sending money has ever appealed to me, but what a level-headed post, Rikusa: Full of common sense and self-awareness, and devoid of childish cynicism.
I saw a real bute on my way home from work yesterday - tattoed from head to toe, dirty, straggly gray hair, smelled like a toilet and was (of course) wearing the requisite (stained) Singha Beer singlet. But, to add insult to injury he was actually wearing swimming trunks and flip-flops on the BTS. Needless-to-say, the "beach-bum" got off at Nana and one can only assume headed to the Beer Garden or that outside bar at Nana Hotel to enjoy his well-deserved escape from reality.
Sure makes a good impression on the locals. Damn, I've been spotted! For the record, though, I was on the way back to my AC room in the hotel. I had to feel sorry for all those Thai people waiting for the BTS, fully dressed in a 35 degree sauna. Not too bright, if you ask me, and the babes would've looked good in white shorts. Likewise with the NEP area day walkers in uniforms with green tops and black pants. But it does explain why they love to shower 10 times a day. And why LOS will remain a third world country for eons to cum.
Big Dick Magee
Old Thai Hand
10-27-07, 14:49
TT
There are lots of possibilities for thread names for what happens on the Thai board.
1/ Ugly women and the lugs that love 'em (Oh, we already have that one. It's called the Photo Gallery)
2/ Know-it-all visitors vs. Newbie Visitors
sub-heading: I'm too busy planning my next trip to see the lovely "Da" at Beavers to help you, you twat!
3/ Know-it-all expats vs. everybody
subheading: bitter, grumpy old men, who should have left a long time ago and who envy your freedom
4/ Twit's Thai
subheading: Daddy07's dictionary of hastily cobbled together Thai pick-up lines and how to mis-pronounce them to win the heart of your paid companion
5/ Monger Fashion Tips
subheading: Flip-flops, Tank-tops, Sweat-flops
6/ Underbelly
subheading: Finding poon for $5/day
sub-subheading: Opebo's got an itch; can somebody scratch it?
sub-sub-subheading: Barebacking and the flies it attracts
7/ Unlikely Places
sub-heading: (Post #1) "I'll be staying in a ranger's hut on top of Phu Kradueng, and was wondering if anyone knows of any action around there." (Please see #2)
8/ Reports of Dyslexia
subheading: if I write in a long drone about my experiences at the same places that every other mug has written about, I'll be recognized for my Dickensian prose and will be elevated to a lofty height
9/ Lodging a Complaint
subheading: I got tired of you guys long ago and anyway, I just want you all to come to my hotel/restaurant/sports bar so I can make lots of money to support my wife and mia noi
10/ How to Spot a regular Thai Girl
subheading: OTH has an anatomical chart and he'd be happy to lend it to you
and...a last minute addition....
11/ The "I'm Right" Club
subheading: Long-winded arguments by long-winded bores who won't give an inch until some Pollyanna, gee-whiz wimp pleads, "Can't we just all get back to talking about what we all love - Mongering, or, 'Why Eden Club is SOOOOOOOOOOO GREAT!!'?"
... 8/ Reports of Dislexia ... OTH - that's dyslexia. (Sorry, that one was too good to pass. :D)
Old Thai Hand
10-27-07, 15:52
OTH - that's dyslexia. (Sorry, that one was too good to pass. :D)
By rights it should actually be "Dylsexia" :). Anyway, I'll fix it, professor.
Retired Army
10-27-07, 16:08
Perhaps ugly behaviour is everywhere.
I am not immune from behaving impolitely at times too.
None of us are, especially when alcohol is involved; but, some people lack common sense and courtesy and carry it to extremes.
Retired Army
10-27-07, 16:13
TT
3/ Know-it-all expats vs. everybody
subheading: bitter, grumpy old men, who should have left a long time ago and who envy your freedom
This one gets my vote.
...
9/ Lodging a Complaint
subheading: I got tired of you guys long ago and anyway, I just want you all to come to my hotel/restaurant/sports bar so I can make lots of money to support my wife and mia noi
...
Old Thai Hand,
LOL. Good one :).
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
10-28-07, 19:31
12/ The Photoless Gallery
subheading: Isn't this the Photoless Gallery? More Talk! Less Pics!
sub-subheading: I've been a regular member of ISG for 5 years, have 3 posts and live in my mother's basement in Scranton, PA...I really need to get laid.
13/ The Miami Report
subheading: If you live in a 22 sq. m. box overlooking Jomtien and have finally managed to go through the last of Pattaya's hookers, put on some Dockers, splash on some Old Spice, and go charm the 'whites' off the nurses and doctors of Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, because I'm sure they've never met a Farang before or seen such a big willy.
14/ BeachRoadSpotting
subheading: There seems to be more girls on Beach Road than there were yesterday...no wait...I think the numbers are down...(sound of wailing, much like Arab women do)...I fear another crackdown...oh, whoa is me (more wailing), the numbers have not nearly returned to what they were in the glory days...blah, blah, blah[QUOTE=Opebo]
15/ The Private Dancer Code
subheading: A bunch of wanks, who just discovered this chestnut, try to decipher the hidden clues to find out the final resting place of the "great hooker"
16/ OTH in Thailand
subheading: The Finger Test - in which OTH finally proves that his girls' pussies smell better than all of yours
...do you want me to go on?....I got a million of 'em:)
Good night gentlemen
...do you want me to go on?....I got a million of 'em:)
17/ OTH in Thailand
subheading: How Old Thai Hand obtained his new nickname: "Old Thai Village Grump." :)
Old Thai Hand
10-29-07, 03:13
17/ OTH in Thailand
subheading: How Old Thai Hand obtained his new nickname: "Old Thai Village Grump." :)
grumpy? me?:D
I've often wondered what happened to Daddy01 through to Daddy06. Did they never get past the prototype stage? Did they fail the test and crash and burn? Was there mechanical failure? Was anyone injured? Is Daddy07 a "one-off" or will there be more of them?
Enquiring minds want to know.
... I've often wondered what happened to Daddy01 through to Daddy06. Did they never get past the prototype stage? Did they fail the test and crash and burn? Was there mechanical failure? Was anyone injured? Is Daddy07 a "one-off" or will there be more of them?
No, nothing so mundane as that, but, instead, very much like my hastily cobbled together Thai phrase list for Twits, "Daddy07" was a hastily cobbled together handle consisting of the name I like the little sex puppies to call me, and my undying admiration for Sean Connery in his role as James Bond 007 -- the man who always got his sex for free. Too bad that Daddy007 was already taken or I would have snatched it up.
BTW -- The sex puppies love it when I mispronounce how cute their little asses are. :)
Regards,
Daddy
Old Thai Hand
10-29-07, 13:08
Sex Puppies?????
mmmmmmmmmmm. Another sophisticate arrives in Pattaya. We're SOOOOOO GLAD, that you've come to live here.......
Sex Puppies?????
mmmmmmmmmmm. Another sophisticate arrives in Pattaya. We're SOOOOOO GLAD, that you've come to live here.......
Yes, sex puppies. It's a term of endearment used by sofphisticates as well as lowlifes, and thank you for your glad tidings, Mr. Grump. Don't you worry now. I'll behave myself here and live in accordance with the ISG monger's code of ethics. They'll be no need to use your elephant gun on me. I look and act like Ozzie Nelson.
OTH,
Daddy07 is the best Daddy ever, the ultimate Daddy - there will be no need for future versions.
And he is going soon to conquer Pattaya with his James Bond standard seduction skills.
Let’s wish him luck.
Lama Di Bali
10-30-07, 04:20
Go for it Old Thai Hand and Daddy07!
It is a real pleasure to read two articulate and witty members in the ISG forums striking sparks off each other.
A welcome respite from the Neanderthal meanderings of the "gimme more fresh meat" posters who have more belly than balls, and more arse than class.
Thanks.
M P Lurker
10-30-07, 07:27
OTH,
Daddy07 is the best Daddy ever, the ultimate Daddy - there will be no need for future versions.
And he is going soon to conquer Pattaya with his James Bond standard seduction skills.
Let’s wish him luck.
Hey you ironical mud slingers, there is nothing wrong with a fantasy pseudonym that doesn't have to be too realistic, and I promise that my "licking" is not boot licking but plenty of pussy licking.
Good luck with those lions in the coleseum.
Old Thai Hand
10-30-07, 12:51
I'm going to ruin this by saying that I actually admire Daddy07 because while I've taken good-natured shots at him in the past for being a bit of a "Gee whiz kid", I wish that I felt as enthusiastic about living in Thailand as he does. It's still new and fresh for him and I'm sure he's quite happy and excited to be here with all his "sex puppies" ;)
The charm wore off for me a long time ago. I sometimes envy those who still find something to get excited about in LOS. I mostly just see the negatives now of the culture, the people and the country as do many long-term expats. Such is the risk if you stay here a long time, work here and have to deal with the more serious aspects of life in Thailand, rather than just exist here for the sake of fun and a good life.
As I said, we're "bitter grumpy old men" who envy your freedom. :D
...The charm wore off for me a long time ago. I sometimes envy those who still find something to get excited about in LOS. I mostly just see the negatives now of the culture, the people and the country as do many long-term expats. Such is the risk if you stay here a long time, work here and have to deal with the more serious aspects of life in Thailand, rather than just exist here for the sake of fun and a good life.
As I said, we're "bitter grumpy old men" who envy your freedom. :D
Permit me to speculate sir that your problem is that you have been spoiled by all the sex puppies -- the best of the best -- cream of the crop -- hi-so and everything inbetween for so many years now that you have forgotten how nice it is to get laid with someone new any time you want.
One thing is certain, however, which leads me to believe you still have your wits about you: You ain't going back to Canada anytime soon. There you would surely stagnate like I have for so many long years in the USA.
Regards,
Daddy
Good luck with those lions in the coleseum.
There are no lions in the Coliseum any more, just harmless kittens and the occasional ass licker.
I have read and from my own experience too, there is, in the non thai entertainment sector, is a VERY high % of Isaan girls.
Why is that so? Just wondering.
Because there are many other poor areas in Thailand. Is it because Pattaya is "close"?
Old Thai Hand
11-09-07, 01:06
I have read and from my own experience too, there is, in the non thai entertainment sector, is a VERY high % of Isaan girls.
Why is that so? Just wondering.
Because there are many other poor areas in Thailand. Is it because Pattaya is "close"?
Part of it has to do with the fact that Thai men don't like the Isaan "look", considering it rather ugly, and therefore these girls go into the Farang-oriented P4P scene, where their so-called "exotic look" is appreciated. Also girls from certain Isaan provinces dominate the scene with Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Buriram and Surin seeming to top the list. While you get girls from every province in Isaan, you will seldom encounter ones from Mukdahan or Nakhon Phanom because of the Vietnam bloodline in the population, making for features that appeal more to Thai men. Girls from these two provinces, if they go into the business at all (these two provinces seem to be better off than other parts of Isaan), generally end up in the Thai scene.
The Thai scene is normally dominated by girls from the north, especially Chiang Mai or the central area around Bangkok, who have a more Chinese look because this is what is considered ideal beauty by Thai standards.
OTH,
Pffft, again a racist fart flies freely...
Higgins,
The reason for the presence of Isaan girls in the farang entertainment areas is historically related to the presence of US forces in Thailand in the 60's and 70's.
They had their bases in the North East (Isaan) and they R&R'ed in BKK and Pattaya.
The girls followed them. It's that simple.
The Thai fuck scene is controlled by the Chinese, who brought the money element to sex in Thailand. Hence you will find more "white" Chinese Thai girls in the Thai scene.
M P Lurker
11-09-07, 12:30
OTH,
Pffft, again a racist fart flies freely...
Higgins,
The reason for the presence of Isaan girls in the farang entertainment areas is historically related to the presence of US forces in Thailand in the 60's and 70's.
They had their bases in the North East (Isaan) and they R&R'ed in BKK and Pattaya.
The girls followed them. It's that simple.
The Thai fuck scene is controlled by the Chinese, who brought the money element to sex in Thailand. Hence you will find more "white" Chinese Thai girls in the Thai scene.
We are now talking about 2007. The war was a long time ago.
Are you seriously denying that Thai men prefer whiter skinned voluptuous chinese looking girls over skinny generally darker skinned Isaan girls, that are more popular with westerners?
Its not racist to state the obvious preference of Thai men. The Thais are probably justr as racist as many other Countries, but its not that relevant here.
When I go to an MP I want a beautiful girl by my standard. I can't help it if white chinese looking girls isn't my preferred look, but there will always be exceptions. I don't think it makes me a racist. I like some black girls well enough, some brown and some white.
Yo Mick,
I seriously understand that you sometimes like darker Thai chicks and that you sometimes like lighter Thai chicks.
OTH OTOH always goes on and on about Isaan girls and how the Thais he thinks are oh-so-hi-so don't like them.
Yes, the war was a long time ago, but the migratory routes from Isaan to Pats and BKK still exist.
Old Thai Hand
11-09-07, 13:16
Come on Freeler! get off your high horse.
There's nothing racist about my comments. It's simply the facts. Mick has it correct.
Thai men don't like Isaan girls unless they don't look like Isaan girls (ie. white skin, more Chinese looking). It's simply a fact and has nothing to do with racism, unless you're talking about Thai racism. However, I think it's simply a matter of preference.
Also, I was merely answering the guy's question with current and accurate information. Don't shoot the messenger. Your old chestnut about the Vietnam War is completely irrelevent.
The bottom line is Thais don't like Isaan people. They of course couldn't live without them - the service industry would collapse, not to mention every HiSo household. The girls are largely drawn to Farang because they know that Farang appreciate them and will give them the largest financial return.
BTW, the Farang sex industry is also largely controlled by the Chinese. The relative handful of Farang that "own" bars etc. is a drop in the ocean. Market forces and tastes merely dictate which type of girl they stock their establishments with.
Also, it was actually Terry Terrier who I quoted when I referred to Isaan girls as "exotic" as he admonished me once that Farangs were attracted to the "dark skinned beauties" of Isaan because they were exotic looking and didn't have "pan faces" like the Thai-Chinese girls that Thai men like.
Gawd! Haven't we discussed this ad nauseum over the last few years?
Give the racist jag a rest. It's not pertinent.
Jungle Bluebird
11-10-07, 03:55
OTH
Majority of Bangkok residents are first generation city dwellers originating from the North East. The big city sucks them in for all kind of reasons. Can't blame BKK residents for not liking the country folk. For once it reminds them of their roots, and although the country bums are the nicest people, they are also very slow in the head.
BTW: not all Issan girls are black and counting by the number of nose jobs north east roots are evident in most Thai girls.
JB
...The bottom line is Thais don't like Isaan people. They of course couldn't live without them...
Retired Army
11-10-07, 04:25
OTH
Majority of Bangkok residents are first generation city dwellers originating from the North East.
JB
I don't think that's true. A good precentage of them are as you state, but not the majority. You could move the entire population of NE Thailand to Bangkok and they would still be a minority.
Jungle Bluebird
11-10-07, 04:45
Retired...
Did a quick search... for what it's worth. Pls view http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t63348.html
...each year when the rice season is over around 2-3m Isan
people migrate to Bangkok looking for work in the factories, shop, some
are Tuk Tuk and Taxi drivers....
and it appears I forgot the Burmese and Cambodians. Pls view http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/483 or http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6121228.stm
JB
I don't think that's true. A good precentage of them are as you state, but not the majority. You could move the entire population of NE Thailand to Bangkok and they would still be a minority.
Retired,
"Population: Thailand’s population was estimated at 64,631,595 in July 2006, making it the nineteenth most populous country in the world. The population growth rate was estimated in 2006 at 0.68 percent. The net migration rate, also based on a 2006 estimate, is 0 percent. In 2005 about 68 percent of the population lived in rural areas and 32 percent in urban areas. The largest population, according to 2000 census data, was in the northeast, with 20.7 million inhabitants and a population density of 122.9 persons per square kilometer. The central region, excluding Bangkok, had the next largest population in 2000, with 14 million inhabitants and a density of 137.8 persons per square kilometer. Bangkok itself had a population of 6.3 million inhabitants and a population density of 4,038 persons per square kilometer. The mountainous north had nearly 11.4 million people, with a density of 67 persons per square kilometer, while the south had 8 million people and a density of 113.9 persons per square kilometer."
Source: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/Thailand.pdf
If you moved the entire population of NE Thailand to Bangkok, Bangkokians would drown in a Sea of Blue Shirts.
Thailand still is an agricultural state. Farmer's are the majority.
Retired Army
11-10-07, 11:51
...each year when the rice season is over around 2-3m Isan
people migrate to Bangkok looking for work in the factories, shop, some
are Tuk Tuk and Taxi drivers....
and it appears I forgot the Burmese and Cambodians.
JB
Yeah, just get in a cab in BKK during the dry season and you know the driver has no idea how to get to your destination. But these aren't considered permanent residents. And Burmese and Cambodians weren't part of the original observation.
Retired Army
11-10-07, 12:08
Retired,
Bangkok itself had a population of 6.3 million inhabitants and a population density of 4,038 persons per square kilometer. .
Damn, you really get into the facts. Do you have any kind of a real life? Having lived in Udon Thani I just don't remember that many people, just rice fields. I guess it depends on what you consider N.E. Thailand. To me that's Udon and Khon Khen. I guess if you include all of Isaan then it's considerably more.
I question the figure of 6.3 million for BKK population. Everything I have seen is between 8 and 12 million with 9 million being the official estimate. No one knows for sure and I am sure that includes all the outlying areas. 6.3 might be Bangkok Proper (whatever that is).
Retired,
Somebody else got the facts, I just googled for them "Thailand demography". I took 2 secs to get a result.
Old Thai Hand
11-10-07, 13:49
OTH
Majority of Bangkok residents are first generation city dwellers originating from the North East. The big city sucks them in for all kind of reasons. Can't blame BKK residents for not liking the country folk. For once it reminds them of their roots, and although the country bums are the nicest people, they are also very slow in the head.
BTW: not all Issan girls are black and counting by the number of nose jobs north east roots are evident in most Thai girls.
JB
I did say in my post that if you removed Isaan people from BKK, the service industry would collapse.
A couple of years ago, Thailand Creative and Design Center (TCDC) at Emporium had a show about Isaan culture and the contribution it makes to Thailand. It was quite an eye-opener for my students. Thais won't admit the amount of their popular culture that depends on Isaan folkloric tradition - from Mor Lam and Luk Theung music to the quintessential Thai food, Som tam. You're right that the so-called sophisticates of BKK don't want to be reminded that in the scheme of things, they are only recently removed from being simple agricultural, country folk. I think this is why they hate Isaan people so much because they view them as an embarrassing reminder of who they really are. The veneer of development and first world aspirations is extremely thin. Just below the surface is the reality of what Thais truly are - 3rd world upstarts. I see it on a daily basis. My educated, oh-so HiSo Thai colleagues often let their guards down, usually without realizing it and display traits not much different from upcountry folk. I find it ironic that they view Farang as barbarians when they often are among the most uncouth people I've ever met, made worse by the fact that they lack even the kindness and good-nature of upcountry people.
I think Freeler is at least correct in his assertion that Bangkok's population is largely made up of people not native to Bangkok. I rarely meet native-born Bangkokians and even when I do, it's not unusual to find that their parents come from some other place.
BTW, I'm perfectly aware that not all girls from Isaan are black. Sometime ago, I did an ethnographic breakdown of the origins of people in Isaan which has resulted in a wide variety of hues, not to mention dialects of both Lao and Khmer. For example, Isaan Lao spoken in Ubon Ratchathani is quite different than that spoken in Udon Thani and Khon Kaen. Ethnographically there is everything from Western Lao to Chinese to Vietnamese blood in the region resulting in fare skin. It's largely the Eastern and Southern Lao and Khmer bloodlines that has resulted in darker skin.
My ex-GF who came from Roi-et was often mistaken for Japanese. My current GF is always thought by people to come from Chiang Mai, although she actually comes from Amnat Charoen near Ubon.
The wide variety of different looks in Isaan defies a type. It's just that a vast majority of P4P girls come from certain areas: Buriram, Surin, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Korat and Roi-et. This limits the experience of most punters and thus mistakingly defines the characteristics and appearances of Isaan girls, when in fact they are much more diverse.
Your remark that the "country bums are slow in the head" may mean only that they've been deprived of a proper education as it's better for the knobs in BKK to keep 'em ignorant, dumb and happy. Personally, I thinks Thais at large are quite stupid. Isaan people are no worse in truth than their so-called betters even with all their education. My boss, who constantly reminds me how fucking HiSo she is, has a PhD from the University of California and is one of the stupidest people I've ever met.
I guess it depends on what you consider N.E. Thailand. To me that's Udon and Khon Khen. I guess if you include all of Isaan then it's considerably more.
I question the figure of 6.3 million for BKK population.
Yes, Northeast Thailand (Isaan) certainly includes a lot more than Udon Thani and Khon Kaen. Though Khon Kaen is the unofficial centre of Isaan due partly to geography and partly to Sarit, and Udon is the nicest place in Isaan.
Also, Bangkok probably isn't all that much bigger than say seven million. It sure doesn't seem all that big if you're coming from Manila or Jakarta.
Thailand still is an agricultural state. Farmer's are the majority.
No, actually the percentage that are farmers dropped below 50% a few years ago Freeler, perhaps not coincidentally during the Thaksin era (though it was inevitable in any case). And the percentage living the traditional lifestyle is declining with increasing rapidity as we speak.
This has huge effects on society, and on our hobby - as the exploited classes become more and more second generation social victims rather than new recruits to the system from the pre-capitalist feudal base, a great deal of the benefit is lost. Believe me you'll know what I'm talking about when you have to pick up hookers who are the pariahs of the urban poor rather than desperate peasants. It's going to feel just like home.
Retired Army
11-10-07, 20:21
My educated, oh-so HiSo Thai colleagues often let their guards down, usually without realizing it and display traits not much different from upcountry folk.
Does this mean they squat by the side of the road and pick their noses?
Opebo,
"as the exploited classes become more and more second generation social victims rather than new recruits to the system from the pre-capitalist feudal base, a great deal of the benefit is lost."
WOW!
That's a big phrase there buddy. Have you had an education:D?
BTW By majority I meant 'largest group', not 'over 50% of all Thai'.
Old Thai Hand
11-11-07, 04:06
Does this mean they squat by the side of the road and pick their noses?
You'd be surprised:)
BTW, I'm perfectly aware that not all girls from Isaan are black.
Errrr, black? I'm late to this discussion, but which continent are we on? Dark brown (or medium brown) and black are not the same thing. is India full of black people then?? (we call 'em brown -- they call themselves brown, so to answer my rhetorical question, no they are not). Unless you're one of those black or white people. ;-)
Your remark that the "country bums are slow in the head" may mean only that they've been deprived of a proper education as it's better for the knobs in BKK to keep 'em ignorant, dumb and happy. Personally, I thinks Thais at large are quite stupid. Isaan people are no worse in truth than their so-called betters even with all their education. My boss, who constantly reminds me how fucking HiSo she is, has a PhD from the University of California and is one of the stupidest people I've ever met.
I agree with your education comment, but your single example (for thais being stupid) is anecdote which we smart people don't convert into statistics. Also many PhDs of all origins seem "stupid" to others because they are specialists (or purely academics), otherwise they wouldn't have put in the years necessary for a doctorate. Doesn't make 'em any easier to deal with, but rather, well, stupid, to call that stupid.
Even if I were pressed to make a blanket characterization (eg, "They're all stupid"), I definitely wouldn't put Thais in the category of being particularly stupid.
Old Thai Hand -- People mistaking your ex-girl friend for a Japanese probably has less to do with Thai geography than Japanese extracurricular activities during WWII.
Old Thai Hand
11-11-07, 08:34
Vittu
No Japanese blood in my ex, even of the WW2 variety. She is Isaan-Lao with some Chinese.
Rumpus
Yes, you're late to the discussion. Read back a few pages before making comments. I didn't originate the "black" reference to Isaan skin color. Someone else used the term.
As for PhDs being stupid. Well, having worked with plenty of them over the years, including 11 years in Thailand, I can say with a reasonable amount of confidence that I've found few Thai PhDs particularly intelligent even in their specializations. I don't want to bore people by going into extensive evidence, other than to say that research and publishing in the conventional western sense is virtually non-existence here. To Thais, a PhD is simply a crowning achievement and the end of education to be shown off as a status symbol, rather than the beginning of life-long research and study as practiced in the west. Like me, the Farang PhDs with whom I work have considerable contempt for their Thai conterparts, considering them all to be lightweights.
You're right that the so-called sophisticates of BKK don't want to be reminded that in the scheme of things, they are only recently removed from being simple agricultural, country folk. I think this is why they hate Isaan people so much because they view them as an embarrassing reminder of who they really are.Any thoughts on who they hate more, Thai country folk or Farang?
Old Thai Hand
11-12-07, 01:08
Any thoughts on who they hate more, Thai country folk or Farang?
No contest. Farang
No contest. Farang
But please send money, even if we hate you.........
Jungle Bluebird
11-12-07, 05:50
thai employee of mine: 'the new french guys stinks, i don't want to work with him'. me (boss has to be above these things): 'well, i will talk to him'.
employee: 'ok, coz i did not know that french people smell, i only thought that indians stink'.
me...speechless.
jb
any thoughts on who they hate more, thai country folk or farang?
Well, Jungle, in all fairness to your Thai employee, the French has never been known for their stellar hygiene.
Old Thai Hand
11-12-07, 10:29
employee: 'ok, coz i did not know that french people smell, i only thought that indians stink'.me...speechless.jb
why speechless? this attitude is common knowledge.
should we do a thai xenophobe's top ten list of people that thais hate?
Should we do a Thai Xenophobe's top ten list of people that Thais hate?
Please do.
Old Thai Hand
11-13-07, 02:47
please do.
1/ kaek (indians, arabs, malaysians, indonesians,or any other swarthy race that looks like them - the thais don't differentiate)
2/ farang (we all come from farangland. no differentiation whatsoever. they soak up the worst of western culture, then blame us for all the ills of their country)
3/ burmese - they sacked thailand 19 times. the thais, who can't remember most things from one day to the next have been brainwashed by their suspect history books to remember events from hundreds of years ago that whitewash their own barbarism and paint the burmese as uncouth [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) and pillagers
4/ cambodians - the thais resent the fact that while their ancestors were wallowing in the mud and living in bamboo shacks, the khmer built one of the greatest civilizations on earth that eventually the thai rabble destroyed, not forgetting of course to steal most of the khmer culture which they now call thai classical culture. the thais now gloat at the lowly state of cambodia.
5/ lao - see #7
6/ africans/blacks in general - blacks generally scare the be-jesus out of thais
internally
7/ isaan people - thais call them 'bug-si-der' (pronounced bug-see-deuh with a rising tone) which is an isaan word that kind of means 'naiive' or 'innocent' but has morphed in thai to mean 'village idiot'
8/ southern thais - central and northern thais find them too dark, too loud and too in your face (see #1)
9/ central thais - sourthern thais, many of whom don't even see themselves as thai find them alien to their way of life and don't identify with the nationalized culture imposed on them.
10/ the rest of thailand - northern thais view themselves as actually somewhat separate and far superior to everyone else in thailand, including the power elite in bangkok. they view their lanna culture as the true bastion of thai grace and beauty. northern women view themselves and are viewed by the rest of the country as being the most beautiful. this contributes to an arrogance and attitude of superiority towards everyone and everything in the rest of thailand. it's not without some justification. the north was the last to be brought (unwillingly) into the thai nation and this was only accomplished when king rama v early in the 20th century sent death squads to assassinate the lanna royal family, who warned of the plot, escaped to luang prabang in laos where their decendents still live.
Old Thai Hand
11-13-07, 02:57
I simply picked this particular quote because it was handy, so my comments are not directed at Member #3200, rather to anyone who has, or intends to, mis-use TLL. TLL is not intended for mongerers to find willing sex partners. It is intended for people...Thais and farangs......to find someone to fill the natural desire for friendship and love, many matches of which end in marriages. I am not a prude, otherwise why would I be in here, but I do hate to see the Thai's perception of farangs as being ONLY interested in sex re-enforced by mongerers from here. Check the ads. Most of them, by the females, are quite explicit about NOT wanting to play GAMES. They are sincerely looking for a compatible mate. Please go elsewhere to do your mongering, and leave the TLL ladies to their searches. Sorry to include this in the PHOTOS section, but the references to TLL keeps expanding.
With all due respect, Oosik, the girls on TLL are probably just as fond of playing games (perhaps even more so) than Farang. Most I've met have hopped into bed in relatively short order (several on the first date) and then expressed shock that I didn't love them and want to marry them.
While there are certainly women on TLL that are genuinely conservative and sincere in their desire for no sex talk and who are just looking for a BF and husband, I have found most to be somewhat dishonest, not to mention borderline psychotic.
Above all, time and again they have proven to be among the easiest lays, outside of P4P. I know several who have gone on to get engaged or even married, yet still are on TLL chatting and probably meeting other guys. One who I went out with briefly, whose fiance is currently in Iraq has been badgering me to come to visit her in Chiang Mai for a dirty weekend. Another, whose story I will tell sometime was (unbeknowst to me) married when I met her. We started dating, her mother even talking to me about dowry and marriage. Only by accident did I find out she already had a husband in the US, who she had met on TLL. He dumped her when he found out about me. She tried to get me back, but I obviously didn't trust her. She now is with some other hapless guy in Phuket.
Terry Terrier
11-13-07, 03:27
'THIS IS THE PHOTO GALLERY, STUPID!'
Old Thai Hand
11-13-07, 05:30
'THIS IS THE PHOTO GALLERY, STUPID!'
TT
What is your problem??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Retired Army
11-13-07, 07:57
Any thoughts on who they hate more, Thai country folk or Farang?
I think it depends on the farang. They certainly hate the typical sex tourist that confines themself to Sukhumvit and Patpong, wears tattered clothing, drinks to excess, paws any girl they feel like, is covered with tattoos and piercings, etc. However, if you a a decent presentable, professional type who respects Thai customs and people then they are very accepting. I am usually treated very well whereever I go and have been invited to events that no farang has ever attended before. But then again, my Thai wife has helped me out a lot also.
Thais tend to like farang who are 1) rich (in fairness all the world loves and worships its rulers), 2) 'rib-roy' - very proper professional types such as myself, OTH, etc., and 3) very young and handsome farangs who are reasonably clean (cleaner than some backpackers).
They also quite like farang babies and young children as they are considered cute.
Old Thai Hand
11-13-07, 10:51
However, if you a a decent presentable, professional type who respects Thai customs and people then they are very accepting.
I dispute this to some extent. I and my fellow Farang colleagues are disrespected on a daily basis by the arrogant Thais with whom we work. But, perhaps that's because of where I work and the type of Thais I have to deal with.
I do think that anti-Farang sentiment has increased greatly in recent years, since the moment Taksin became PM. Just look at all the crap one has to go through now to get a visa and a work permit.
Retired Army
11-13-07, 15:23
I dispute this to some extent. I and my fellow Farang colleagues are disrespected on a daily basis by the arrogant Thais with whom we work. But, perhaps that's because of where I work and the type of Thais I have to deal with.
I do think that anti-Farang sentiment has increased greatly in recent years, since the moment Taksin became PM. Just look at all the crap one has to go through now to get a visa and a work permit.
I don't disagree with you. I think it's the upper class (whatever that means) Thais who would look down on anyone who isn't Chinese, rich, etc. I am refering to the everyday hard working middle class Thais.
Old Thai Hand,
Dear OTH, you forgot to put 1ball number one of your top 10 xenophobia list, by what I read from him here.
1bal, please tell us where you are from, so we can crack some old good racist jokes about your fellow countrymen !
OTH, over the years I have always enjoyed reading your views about Thai society. I don't know you personaly but I am sure someone who has so much "djai-dee" and knowledge of Isaan people must be a good man.
Have your read Pira Sudham's books ? What do you think of him ?
Thanks.
Old Thai Hand,
Dear OTH, you forgot to put 1ball number one of your top 10 xenophobia list, by what I read from him here.
1bal, please tell us where you are from, so we can crack some old good racist jokes about your fellow countrymen !
Erik, obviously, you are mighty slow. I am the first to crack some old good racist jokes about my fellow countrymen.
Which is why I left many many moons ago. :D
Looking forward to your old good racist jokes.
Old Thai Hand
11-14-07, 00:53
OTH, over the years I have always enjoyed reading your views about Thai society. I don't know you personaly but I am sure someone who has so much "djai-dee" and knowledge of Isaan people must be a good man.
Have your read Pira Sudham's books ? What do you think of him ?
Thanks.
Thanks. But, I'm not always that jai dee about Isaan people. I often tend to be somewhat ambivalent about them and tend to favour those from certain provinces while disliking others from elsewhere.
I have read Pira Sudham and think that he has a lot that is relevent to say about the Thai hierarchy and exploitation of the masses. Needlesstosay, he's somewhat controversial and not well-liked by the power base here.
Africans/Blacks in general - Blacks generally scare the be-jesus out of Thais
I gotta be brief, I've been going to Thailand for 4-5 years now and I have yet to get or feel the xenophobic assumptions being African-American. Yes I'm a big guy (6"0 215) I have heard from different people including some of the "whiteboys" that the reason why African Americans are having this problem in Thailand is due to the fact that the Nigerians have given us a bad reputation. Again I am research this as I go along......
Member #2041
11-14-07, 02:27
Employee: 'ok, coz I did not know that french people smell
JB
In all fairness, French folks who practice proper personal hygiene and shower regularly, smell fine. In fact, all three of them do.
In all fairness, French folks who practice proper personal hygiene and shower regularly, smell fine. In fact, all three of them do.
Now that is fucking funny.
sure it is 3, 2041? You are in a generous mood today.
Member #2041
11-14-07, 03:08
Consider 3 to be an upper bound.
Old Thai Hand
11-14-07, 10:22
I gotta be brief, I've been going to Thailand for 4-5 years now and I have yet to get or feel the xenophobic assumptions being African-American. Yes I'm a big guy (6"0 215) I have heard from different people including some of the "whiteboys" that the reason why African Americans are having this problem in Thailand is due to the fact that the Nigerians have given us a bad reputation. Again I am research this as I go along......
Yes. Nigerians = drug dealers, scam artists, thieves and on and on and on...
Jungle Bluebird
11-14-07, 10:48
Update on the French hygiene situation in my office:
1 Thai employee has handed in her notice. It's the French guy she says. I have a feeling it is in response to my refusal to fire him, rather than his body odor.
What next I wonder...
JB
In all fairness, French folks who practice proper personal hygiene and shower regularly, smell fine. In fact, all three of them do.
Old Thai Hand
11-14-07, 14:02
Update on the French hygiene situation in my office:
1 Thai employee has handed in her notice. It's the French guy she says. I have a feeling it is in response to my refusal to fire him, rather than his body odor.
What next I wonder...
JB
This is actually pretty typical. Thai female workers, once they develop a hate-on about someone in a job will never get over it, never try to resolve it, will over-react and do exactly what your employee has done. We just had a similar situation in my office where one women developed a hate for another women and managed to poison the 2 other office staff against the one she hated, which led to all the women in the office giving an ultimatum that either she go or they go. The unfortunate thing was that the women that was forced to leave was the best of the lot. I would rather have seen the 3 usless women leave and her stay. I've seen variations of this scenario many times. It comes from the Thais inability to resolve conflict.
Old Thai Hand
11-16-07, 01:21
A world wide epidemic, Let's not cast stones. All races have this problem. Sadly it seems more than ever.
Why not cast stones where they are deserved? Even other Africans don't like Nigerians. They're a scourge here and certainly have contributed greatly to Thais not liking or trusting Blacks, in general.
Ill give you guys an example on my recent run-ins with "the boys in brown". Now as most of you know, the check points happen during the mid to late night hours.
The first spot was not to far from Siam Square. The cops ordered the taxi to pull over. I was thinking it was the taxi driver but, instead they wanted to check me!.They asked for my passport which I shown, they frisked me to see if I had any drugs in or on me...Nadda. After a minute of asking me questions like "Do I speak Thai". I told em I speak a bit. After it was all said and done, they sent me on my way.
The next one was at Victory Monument. Same Scenario. I'm saying to myself: "What the fuck is going on man???" Again, taxi pulled over, same procedure, Now of course I didn't raise a fuss, becuase I know how shaky these guys can get. There was also another time I was on my way to Santika when two cops on a bike pulled over...you guessed it! Same procedure. I'll have to go on a limb and say that the Nigerians have really gave me being an African-American guy a very fucking hard time in BKK.
Jungle Bluebird
11-16-07, 12:30
Funny though. Seems to be all grouped around NEP. Nigerians, Indian tailor shops and sex tourists LOL.
Any connections?
JB
Why not cast stones where they are deserved? Even other Africans don't like Nigerians. They're a scourge here and certainly have contributed greatly to Thais not liking or trusting Blacks, in general.
Terry Terrier
11-17-07, 03:03
Funny though. Seems to be all grouped around NEP. Nigerians, Indian tailor shops and sex tourists LOL.
JB
The sextourists are there to shag the local prostitutes, the Indian tailor shops are there to flog clothes to the sextourists, and the Nigerians are there either to be tourists of some sort or other or to scam whoever is stupid enough to be scammed.
Any connections?
Maybe they are all in touch with each other via cellphones or microsoft messenger? (Hint: A joke)
btw, Still waiting for your proof of your superior-looking prostitutes.
btw2, Any update on the re-decoration of your company's office walls?
Tokyohomeboy
11-18-07, 17:11
Good education in exchange for good sex. Not a bad deal for either one of you, I'the say. And she'll probably leave you for some younger guy, once she finishes her school and doesn't need your help anymore.
There are relationships like that in the West too. 'Friend with benefits' is what the young College girls call it. Dan or others, how easy is ti to get into this type of situation. It is exactly what I am looking for. Right now I'm facing the choice of going back to China and getting my language level up to fluent or staying in Thailand and attempting the same. Strictly from the perspective of dating college girls and helping with their schooling, how easy is it to find? How acceptable is it to the average gal? When I was in Japan and China, it was very easy to find and very acceptable to the girls. After they graduate or get propsed to, they want to end it. Are Thai girls similar?
Old Thai Hand
11-19-07, 01:32
Dan or others, how easy is ti to get into this type of situation. It is exactly what I am looking for. Right now I'm facing the choice of going back to China and getting my language level up to fluent or staying in Thailand and attempting the same. Strictly from the perspective of dating college girls and helping with their schooling, how easy is it to find? How acceptable is it to the average gal? When I was in Japan and China, it was very easy to find and very acceptable to the girls. After they graduate or get propsed to, they want to end it. Are Thai girls similar?
Well, as someone who is over 50 and has a GF and a Gig, both of whom are students, I'd say it's pretty easy here to find one, if you are living here. I would also say that here they don't tend to leave you when they graduate, as they form an attachment very quickly. Thai girls tend to be overly emotional and fall in love quickly. I understand from a colleague who teaches at Temple U. in Japan and who has a student who he is supporting, that it is more detached and more of a business arrangement there. I'm actually encouraging my Gig to find a BF, when she graduates in June. But, she says she doesn't want to, seeming content to be #2 because she doesn't want to leave me. I find this hard to believe. But, whatever the case, it works fine for me.
The Internet dating sites have quite a few students looking for sponsors. I had a very cute one from Chiang Mai contact me the other day. She is looking for something long term, well beyond the end of her education, which would include helping her family as well. So, generally I'd say that here, at least it usually involves more emotional committment from both parties.
Well, as someone who is over 50 and has a GF and a Gig, both of whom are students, I'd say it's pretty easy here to find one, if you are living here.
I'm actually encouraging my Gig to find a BF, when she graduates in June. But, she says she doesn't want to, seeming content to be #2 because she doesn't want to leave me. I find this hard to believe. But, whatever the case, it works fine for me.
What's a Gig? A casual sex only thing for when the GF is in class?
Steve Naive
11-20-07, 00:39
I had a really excellent therepeutic massage last July in BKK. I have been trying to learn some Thai, and I decided to practice with my masseuse, which amused her quite a lot.
She asked if I had a wife at home. I don't, I said, only a "gik." [That's what a taxi driver taught me to say; same, I guess, as "gig", and I'll use "gig" now since that's the way Old Thai Hand spells it. It was incorrect to refer to my GF as "gig", as I have since learned that "gig" implies a casual relationship, and my GF at home is a long-term relationship.] She laughed and said she wanted to be my Thai gig. To make a long story short, that's what happened.
She and some of the other ladies knit for fun when they don't have customers. I was surprised to learn that my Thai gig had decided to knit me a scarf, perhaps because I told her it was cold where I lived. A nice gift, methinks! Only it's hard to wear at home, would raise questions with the GF. She was going to knit one for my GF too... I discouraged her.
So I'm trying to figure out a gift for my "gig". She does not get home (Khorat) often, and in BKK she lives in a room with 3-4 other ladies. I doubt she cooks in BKK, and she doesn't have room for many possessions.
What might some of you who have had Thai GFs think would be an appropriate, modest gift considering that she knitted me a scarf? What would a Thai lady who lives modestly want from USA?
I have considered looking for something knice at a knitting supply store, but given how little I know about the sport, I hardly know what to get. A nice yarn, maybe, but how much?
So I'm looking for other ideas. PM or post, please.
OTH, I'm also looking for a more specific definition of "gig" if you can tell us.
Steve
Member #2041
11-20-07, 01:44
What might some of you who have had Thai GFs think would be an appropriate, modest gift considering that she knitted me a scarf? What would a Thai lady who lives modestly want from USA?
Most of them would like a visa - and either type of visa will do.
Old Thai Hand
11-20-07, 03:34
OTH, I'm also looking for a more specific definition of "gig" if you can tell us.Steve
There is still some dispute even among Thais as to what 'Gig' actually implies. Some will tell you that it simply means more than a friend, but doesn't necessarily mean a sex friend. Many more will tell you that it means a sex friend and is basically the modern replacement for Mia noi (for men), although just as many women, as men have Gigs these days, it seems. While I think it may have had an ambiguous meaning in the past, the connotation is now almost strictly of a sex friend. It's popularity has grown, fuelled by high school and university students, who have made it a fashion to have casual sex and mutliple partners. I hear the term bandied around all the time among my students, although some girls, now don't like to be referred to as a "gig" because of the sexual connotation. Although I say I have a 'gig', she would be horrified if I ever referred to her in that way, because she sees herself as something more important in my life - not something as casual and lowly as a gig.
There is still some dispute even among Thais as to what 'Gig' actually implies. Some will tell you that it simply means more than a friend, but doesn't necessarily mean a sex friend. Many more will tell you that it means a sex friend and is basically the modern replacement for Mia noi (for men), although just as many women, as men have Gigs these days, it seems. While I think it may have had an ambiguous meaning in the past, the connotation is now almost strictly of a sex friend. It's popularity has grown, fuelled by high school and university students, who have made it a fashion to have casual sex and mutliple partners. I hear the term bandied around all the time among my students, although some girls, now don't like to be referred to as a "gig" because of the sexual connotation. Although I say I have a 'gig', she would be horrified if I ever referred to her in that way, because she sees herself as something more important in my life - not something as casual and lowly as a gig.Had this chat with a Thai girl I know not that long ago about what a "gig" is, she made is sound like a second GF, but never tell the second girl that she is a gig make her think she is the GF. I asked my friend if she wanted to be my gig, sadly she declined.
Another friend said her friend wanted to be a minor wife, looking for the easy life I think.
Old Thai Hand
11-22-07, 15:34
Had this chat with a Thai girl I know not that long ago about what a "gig" is, she made is sound like a second GF, but never tell the second girl that she is a gig make her think she is the GF. I asked my friend if she wanted to be my gig, sadly she declined.
Another friend said her friend wanted to be a minor wife, looking for the easy life I think.
Minor Wife or Mia Noi is very much out of fashion as a term, except maybe upcountry because it implies subserviance. Thai women, at least in the city are actually becoming 'liberated' to some extent in their thinking. The outcome of this is the term 'Gig' which can be used by either sex. Women now like to think they have the power to have a Gig as well as a BF. It's become quite common. It's such a trend that there have been two recent Thai movies called the Gig and Gig 2 wherein the girls were very much in control and had the power over men. While Thai women have a long way to go to become the left-wing women's libers that one is used to in the west (and I doubt they ever will be quite that horrible), there is certainly a trend towards Thai women taking charge of their sexual relationships that is very much at odds with traditional views of appropriate behaviour of women within the culture.
M P Lurker
11-23-07, 16:29
Minor Wife or Mia Noi is very much out of fashion as a term, except maybe upcountry because it implies subserviance. Thai women, at least in the city are actually becoming 'liberated' to some extent in their thinking. The outcome of this is the term 'Gig' which can be used by either sex. Women now like to think they have the power to have a Gig as well as a BF. It's become quite common. It's such a trend that there have been two recent Thai movies called the Gig and Gig 2 wherein the girls were very much in control and had the power over men. While Thai women have a long way to go to become the left-wing women's libers that one is used to in the west (and I doubt they ever will be quite that horrible), there is certainly a trend towards Thai women taking charge of their sexual relationships that is very much at odds with traditional views of appropriate behaviour of women within the culture.
My experience is that a where you might live with a girlfriend up to 24 hours per day, a Gik (gig) is mostly just a sex partner where the meetings normally commence with sex straight away or at least it is understood that the purpose of meeting is for sex.
Before I had my latest GF I used to meet up with Phorn for sex sessions of usually about 2 hours in the afternoons. She intoduced me to the word "gik" I think. I had met her when she worked very briefly at an MP.
She was not always able to answer the phone and would not discuss whether she was married or had any major BFs, etc. She had stretch marks from having a baby at some point.
She was however very hot in bed. So I was quite happy with the situation.
Once I started to not answer the phone immediately due to meeting my current GF, Phorn informed me straight off that she didn't wish to meet me any more, which suprised me. Not sure if she didn't like competition or simply couldn't take risks meeting me any more.
She was however very hot in bed. So I was quite happy with the situation.
Once I started to not answer the phone immediately due to meeting my current GF, Phorn informed me straight off that she didn't wish to meet me any more, which suprised me. Not sure if she didn't like competition or simply couldn't take risks meeting me any more.Somewhere I read that TGs are terrified of situations like this because if the GF found out about your Gig the latter might be dismembered. This would not surprise me after seeing the violence on Thai TV soaps. While a SW in Canada would never speak of Thai boxing me, in my experience it is quite the in fashion thing with P4P girls here.
M P Lurker
11-26-07, 08:03
Somewhere I read that TGs are terrified of situations like this because if the GF found out about your Gig the latter might be dismembered. This would not surprise me after seeing the violence on Thai TV soaps. While a SW in Canada would never speak of Thai boxing me, in my experience it is quite the in fashion thing with P4P girls here.
If you do the wrong thing, a P4P will threaten you with boxing. Big deal!
But a GF will threaten to cut it off and feed it too the ducks in small pieces. Yikes! :( :D
Hi there
I didnt really know where to put this so I went here. Sorry if I upset anyone.
Anyway, I just got through reading a book called My name is Lon - you like me. I bought it at Changi Airport but you can get it OL through Bangkokbooks.com. Look on EBAY too as I'm going to sell my copy soon.
The book is about a thai girl who at 14 was made to work in the P4P scene. It follows her journey through Patpong, Pattaya, living in europe, and eventually settling there.
I found it interesting to actually hear from a BG point of view. Here is a short summary about the book and some of my thoughts.
* She starts to describe about Esarn (issarn), about how ppl from that region are not considered true Thais, and are heavily discriminated against. How corrupt the gov, and officals are in Esarn, and Thailand in general. What the poverty is like, etc, etc. How the money made from her activities gave her mother "face" within the community. She hates what her mother does with the money, (waste it on shit), but yet doesn't hate her mother for all that she has out her through.
* You do feel empathy for Lon early, but then that feeling starts to fade quickly. Lon comes across as a girl who will do anything if there is a quid to be made. NO matter how bad she feels about doing it, or what the act is, she will perform it, as long as the guy has cash. AFter makign the money she feels good about the money she has made, then starts to bag the guy and what his sexual appetitte may have been. She knew what she was up for so why continue doing it if you feel like a piece of shit and are being treated as such by the guy involved, (in some cases months by a S&M freak). Once again its an easy answer $$$$$
* Lon states that in 2000 she was making US$2400/month from farangs in the P4P scence. She goes on to say that she made 1200/month from guys sending her money, and describes these men as incredibly stupid, as well as those men who she met in Thailand who she gave them some BS story about how she needed money as Buffalo was sick, etc.
* She hates the P4P scene, and being a BG, but continuley tries to back her case by saying she could earn $80/ month by being a waitress or working in the rice fields earning maybe $50. Then states that there are 500,000 prositutes in Thailand. My question is this, and this is where I lost all compassion for her. Not every woman in Thailand is a WG/BG. There are plenty of women working their arses' off in offices, shops, tourist guides, the rice fields, etc earning far less than her, but dont resort to P4P. In my opinion Lon is increbiley money hungry.
* Lon demands respect from her customers, and is offended when farangs call them nicknames such as LBFM's. Then on the other hand she describes sex tourists, the same ppl who she receives her money off, as ugly, emotionally retatrded, or men who cannot get gfs in their own country, boring her constantly with their problems. She regards all farangs as walking ATMs'. The girl is a total hypocrite!
* SHe marries a swiss guy and moves to Switzerland, but the marriage only lasts 10 days. She asks to go home and he eventually agrees, but then b4 she leaves, she asks her husband for a "golden handshake" as the R/L has broken up! The guy refuses, and she gets upset at him. She states that this is normal proticol for BG who marry farangs and the R/L breaks up that the man should provide their ex with a golden handshake.
* Eventually she becomes a recuiter for a photographer gettign BG's to appear in porno. Then marries a swede. During this time she is diagnosed with bi-polar, and schizoprenehar. ....I wonder why.....
I dont want to warble on for too long as I may bore some of you. Its not a bad book and I thought that posting a mini review here just to hear peoples comments on it, maybe gettgin a discussion going. Or to see if anyone here has read it before.
Dan
Minor Wife or Mia Noi is very much out of fashion as a term, except maybe upcountry because it implies subserviance. Thai women, at least in the city are actually becoming 'liberated' to some extent in their thinking. The outcome of this is the term 'Gig' which can be used by either sex. Women now like to think they have the power to have a Gig as well as a BF. It's become quite common. It's such a trend that there have been two recent Thai movies called the Gig and Gig 2 wherein the girls were very much in control and had the power over men. While Thai women have a long way to go to become the left-wing women's libers that one is used to in the west (and I doubt they ever will be quite that horrible), there is certainly a trend towards Thai women taking charge of their sexual relationships that is very much at odds with traditional views of appropriate behaviour of women within the culture.I got the term Minor wife from my friend, and yes this girl is very much in control of her sex life and uses it to her advantage, if it wasn't for my friend pointing out what this girl is really like she may have got her claws into me too.
My friend says to me she loves her friend very much, but this is what her friend is like. She not act like a traditional Thai girl should. Over the last couple of years I have gotten to know a few TG's, each one very different to the other in their values and belief's. Some very good and others like this girl not so good.
It is safe to say that bad girls are not restricted to bargirls, there are TG's out there looking for a sugar daddy too.
Old Thai Hand
11-26-07, 14:16
Dan
The official Thai govt. stats state that there are 200,000 hookers in LOS. The real number is probably more like 2,000,000.
My personal opinion is that Lon is a nom-de-plume, and this book was actually written by a guy with a lot of personal experience in the P4P scene.
Jungle Bluebird
11-27-07, 05:44
Guess you include all the part timers. Then I agree with the numbers, but a note of caution to Thailand newbie's. Yes, many girls are part timers, however a high number are also 'good girls'. Unfortunately girls do not wear T-Shirts indicating willingness (in % would be nice :-)
In my office there are loads of girls I am pretty sure who are still virgins despite being quite pretty and well over 23. I just figure this through meetings we have and how shy they are. Head is down and red faced just about on any subjected related to guys.
I also met girls where I would have never expected them to be so naughty. Point is you never can tell what you get in this country when it comes to part timers. Good way for Thai newbie’s to get into trouble is to assume that all girls with sweet smiles are willing to provide Xtra services.
JB
Dan
The official Thai govt. stats state that there are 200,000 hookers in LOS. The real number is probably more like 2,000,000.
My personal opinion is that Lon is a nom-de-plume, and this book was actually written by a guy with a lot of personal experience in the P4P scene.
Old Thai Hand
11-27-07, 07:13
Guess you include all the part timers. Then I agree with the numbers, but a note of caution to Thailand newbie's. Yes, many girls are part timers, however a high number are also 'good girls'. Unfortunately girls do not wear T-Shirts indicating willingness (in % would be nice :-)
In my office there are loads of girls I am pretty sure who are still virgins despite being quite pretty and well over 23. I just figure this through meetings we have and how shy they are. Head is down and red faced just about on any subjected related to guys.
I also met girls where I would have never expected them to be so naughty. Point is you never can tell what you get in this country when it comes to part timers. Good way for Thai newbie’s to get into trouble is to assume that all girls with sweet smiles are willing to provide Xtra services.
JB
Yes. It's a minefield for the inexperienced. It's best for most to stick to the well-known venues and stop fantasizing about meeting girls outside P4P unless they are living here and are willing to invest the time.
Yes. It's a minefield for the inexperienced. It's best for most to stick to the well-known venues and stop fantasizing about meeting girls outside P4P unless they are living here and are willing to invest the time.I have been to Thailand 5 or 6 times in the last two years and still consider myself inexperienced, but I have made a choice to move from the well-known venues to TG's. I have thai friends that I have been chatting to online for maybe 18 months now. I was in Thailand earlier this month for a week and spent my first and last night in Thailand with one of these girls. I only met this girl once before back in May for a meet and greet, nothing more.
I have to be careful as each of these girls a friends of a friends and at least one of them knows this girl.
Luck for me I not have to worry that the girl I was with telling anyone of importance what happened or even that we meet while I was in BKK. Now there are some mind games going on, in her eyes now that she has given herself to me we are now boyfriend/girlfriend. But I have told her it is too early to agree to be her boyfriend.
Before I would barfines girls and spend lots of money but the more time I spend in bars, the less I like bargirls and spending money on them. I still like to drink in bars and play pool but dealing with the bullshit that comes with bargirls means I am less inclined to barfine a girl but I will never say never.
Old Thai Hand
11-27-07, 13:44
Now there are some mind games going on, in her eyes now that she has given herself to me we are now boyfriend/girlfriend. But I have told her it is too early to agree to be her boyfriend.
Well, you are applying Western thinking to a cultural situation of which you obviously have little understanding.
Within traditional Thai culture, which can be quite strict, particularly with upcountry girls, sex is a much bigger deal than it is in the West. Think about it as Western morality from about 50 years ago. So, essentially, you're messing around with this girl who sees things completely differently (and much more seriously) than you do. From the perspective of strict Thai culture, she's right. You are girlfriend/boyfriend. Not so long ago, you would be expected to immediately marry her and there are many Thais who still strictly adhere to that way of thinking.
While I've said in a recent post about "Gigs" that there is a shift in thinking about sex and a trend towards casual sex among teenagers and young Thais, this is occurring primarily in Bangkok. It is mainly an urban phenomenon and certainly is not wide-spread throughout the country. Add to this the fact that many girls on dating websites are indeed looking for something longterm and one can see that you're being extremely dishonest in your callous use of this girl because you're tired of bargirls.
Guys like you give all Farang a bad name within the wider population because of this kind of thinking and behaviour.
Well, you are applying Western thinking to a cultural situation of which you obviously have little understanding.
You've given a good explanation as to why us falangs, (unless we want to get married), are better off confining our activities to the sex providers. Life is still complicated with them, but much less so. It has been said more than once in this forum that sex workers are not paid for sex -- they are paid to leave and to leave you alone. One can still have lots of fun with them as long as things don't ever get serious. So if you like variety, P4P is the least expensive and best way to go IMHO.
I did say in my post that if you removed Isaan people from BKK, the service industry would collapse.
A couple of years ago, Thailand Creative and Design Center (TCDC) at Emporium had a show about Isaan culture and the contribution it makes to Thailand. It was quite an eye-opener for my students. Thais won't admit the amount of their popular culture that depends on Isaan folkloric tradition - from Mor Lam and Luk Theung music to the quintessential Thai food, Som tam. You're right that the so-called sophisticates of BKK don't want to be reminded that in the scheme of things, they are only recently removed from being simple agricultural, country folk. I think this is why they hate Isaan people so much because they view them as an embarrassing reminder of who they really are. The veneer of development and first world aspirations is extremely thin. Just below the surface is the reality of what Thais truly are - 3rd world upstarts. I see it on a daily basis. My educated, oh-so HiSo Thai colleagues often let their guards down, usually without realizing it and display traits not much different from upcountry folk. I find it ironic that they view Farang as barbarians when they often are among the most uncouth people I've ever met, made worse by the fact that they lack even the kindness and good-nature of upcountry people.I've just finished catching up on reports, and found this excellent comment of OTH's from a while back that I think needs re-posting in case anyone missed it. The TCDC Isaan exhibition was well-done and surprisingly fair and honest about the contribution of Isaan culture to Thailand and Isaan workers to the economy of Bangkok, especially considering that TCDC is run by Hi-So "Thais" (I. E. , rich, foreign-educated Thai/Chinese- without going into too much revealing detail suffice it to say I have met and worked with a number of them). I'd like to point out that I am given to understand that the TCDC is in fairly difficult straits at this point, mainly because the ultra-"conservative" generals running this country resent anything that a) reminds them of Thaksin (who despite being a jungle-Chinese boor himself supported TCDC, hoping as nouveau riche do to apply a veneer of culture and respectability to himself) and b) appears to be "modern" and smacks of Western influence. I encourage everyone to go and take a look at it while it remains; if you find it worthwhile find a way to contribute.
I'd also like to add that I think we are witnessing the evolution of the old "jek pon lao" dynamic in Thailand, to the point where, in Bangkok and in the popular media (TV dramas, commercial, etc.), to be a modern-day urban "Thai" is to be more or less Chinese in appearance, and to be dark is to be Lao/Isaan. The attractive characters in the dramas, at least those set in the present, are virtually all pale-skinned- admittedly there will be a fair number of look kreung thrown into the mix, but for the most part they are Chinese. There will inevitably be some brown country folk seen in the dramas, provided either as comic relief or as representatives of good country folk with old-fashioned, stalwart (albeit illiterate) sensibilities, but they are the rarely central characters. Insofar as the TV commercials and billboards go, essentially all of the actors/models are white (as in pale as Texas Blind Cave Salamanders) and but for the look kreungs, Chinese.
The question of what really constitutes Thai-ness has never really been answered but in the vaguest of terms. While certain attributes would seem to unite the Thais (language, reverence for the King, Buddhism), I think the line of demarcation between the social classes has never been quite so clear- to be brown at this point in history is, in Bangkok at least (and does anywhere else in Thailand really matter in political or economic terms? ), to be a member of the underclass. There is no real use for the pejorative "jek" anymore in Bangkok- by now everyone who matters is a "jek". As offensive to our (modern) Western sensibilities as this might be, we might as well get to used to it, because given the rise of Chinese power in the region and the influx of Chinese capital and immigrants to Thailand, I suspect it is a more or less permanent development. I also think we can also expect a direct correlation between this increase in Chinese-ness and a growing sense of contempt and unfriendliness toward Westerners, especially non-tourists (it will be interesting to see how the Japanese fit in as Thailand continues to Sinofy).
Old Thai Hand
11-28-07, 01:14
You've given a good explanation as to why us falangs, (unless we want to get married), are better off confining our activities to the sex providers. Life is still complicated with them, but much less so. It has been said more than once in this forum that sex workers are not paid for sex -- they are paid to leave and to leave you alone. One can still have lots of fun with them as long as things don't ever get serious. So if you like variety, P4P is the least expensive and best way to go IMHO.
Well, you're absolutely correct. But, since you are newly arrived here, you're still thinking in holiday mode like a visitor. I assure you that after awhile, the bloom will be off the rose and you will tire of the P4P scene, not be attracted at all to bargirls and the like and will start looking elsewhere. Your tastes may even change and you might find that the girls that you (and the immediate monger world) now think are attractive are quite repugnant - Just look at the salivating going on in the Photo Gallery over that girl Na. She's got a face like a monkey and is altogether butt-ugly. But, eleven years ago, I might have thought she was ok - on second thought, no. I would never have thought she was attractive. Although her body is passable. The point is that there's just so much better out there that in time, you will be able to be more discerning and know the difference.
When the day comes, that you move beyond where you are now, you will need to adjust your thinking considerably away from the 3F approach which is the hard and fast rule for P4P to one that is more considerate and serious.
LittleBigMan
11-28-07, 01:47
Bob Down,
Whether you buy drinks for BG or buy dinner for a Thai lady, both area's are loaded with mine fields of their own?
LBM
Well, you're absolutely correct. But, since you are newly arrived here, you're still thinking in holiday mode like a visitor. I assure you that after awhile, the bloom will be off the rose and you will tire of the P4P scene, not be attracted at all to bargirls and the like and will start looking elsewhere. Your tastes may even change and you might find that the girls that you (and the immediate monger world) now think are attractive are quite repugnant - Just look at the salivating going on in the Photo Gallery over that girl Na. She's got a face like a monkey and is altogether butt-ugly. But, eleven years ago, I might have thought she was ok - on second thought, no. I would never have thought she was attractive. Although her body is passable. The point is that there's just so much better out there that in time, you will be able to be more discerning and know the difference.
When the day comes, that you move beyond where you are now, you will need to adjust your thinking considerably away from the 3F approach which is the hard and fast rule for P4P to one that is more considerate and serious.
Well, that all sounds wonderful, and I do believe in evolution, OTH, but I sure as hell don't want to ever get married again, and I wonder if you would tell us just how you are able to be so "considerate and serious" with these sweet little good girls who take love and sex so seriously, without falling into the marriage trap. Do you just string them along until they blow up when they realize it ain't gonna happen, or do you simply tell them up front that there will be no marriage and let them decide to live with you anyway for a while until the next good girl takes your fancy?
BTW -- If you could see some of the sweethearts I'm seeing these days, I guarantee you could never conclude even one was "butt-ugly." They are all very attractive girls -- just as pretty as the good girls I see.
Bob Down,
Whether you buy drinks for BG or buy dinner for a Thai lady, both area's are loaded with mine fields of their own?
LBMYes I agree.
Well, you are applying Western thinking to a cultural situation of which you obviously have little understanding.
Within traditional Thai culture, which can be quite strict, particularly with upcountry girls, sex is a much bigger deal than it is in the West. Think about it as Western morality from about 50 years ago. So, essentially, you're messing around with this girl who sees things completely differently (and much more seriously) than you do. From the perspective of strict Thai culture, she's right. You are girlfriend/boyfriend. Not so long ago, you would be expected to immediately marry her and there are many Thais who still strictly adhere to that way of thinking.
While I've said in a recent post about "Gigs" that there is a shift in thinking about sex and a trend towards casual sex among teenagers and young Thais, this is occurring primarily in Bangkok. It is mainly an urban phenomenon and certainly is not wide-spread throughout the country. Add to this the fact that many girls on dating websites are indeed looking for something longterm and one can see that you're being extremely dishonest in your callous use of this girl because you're tired of bargirls.
Guys like you give all Farang a bad name within the wider population because of this kind of thinking and behaviour.I think you have me all wrong OTH, this girl is not some teenager from upcountry. Secondly I did not meet her on some dating website either. I am incontact with a small number of girls, I met this girl through her cousin.
I have never said that she was never going to be my girlfriend, only that I need more time to know her better. With that said, yes I still maintain contact with this girl.
With every trip I learn a little bit more, but still no expert. I also learn from reading this forum and chating to my Thai friends online, and I have some friends at home that r married to Thai women.
Also this girl is 32 years old and does have some life experience. I did not put a gun to her head and force her into bed with me, she had that planned all along.
But answer me this, western thinking of a friend is different to a Thai thinking of a friend. How do I tell her I am going to another province to visit a friend only. Without her thinking I am going to visit another girlfriend. This is a honest question not trying to find a way to bullshit her. I had this problem last trip.
Old Thai Hand
11-28-07, 13:11
Well, that all sounds wonderful, and I do believe in evolution, OTH, but I sure as hell don't want to ever get married again, and I wonder if you would tell us just how you are able to be so "considerate and serious" with these sweet little good girls who take love and sex so seriously, without falling into the marriage trap. Do you just string them along until they blow up when they realize it ain't gonna happen, or do you simply tell them up front that there will be no marriage and let them decide to live with you anyway for a while until the next good girl takes your fancy?
BTW -- If you could see some of the sweethearts I'm seeing these days, I guarantee you could never conclude even one was "butt-ugly." They are all very attractive girls -- just as pretty as the good girls I see.
Firstly, I found it quite amusing that you spoke for "us falangs" in your generalization of how to approach the whole issue of involvement or avoidance of involvement with Thai women. A month in the country and already you're an expert - LOL. :D
Living in La La Land, you are hardly in touch with the reality of what most expats actually think about and do here. The fact is that most eschew the P4P scene after awhile (even many in Fantasyland Pattaya) and get themselves involved in something more serious. Whether this leads to marriage or not, the point is that most Farang living here ultimately end up with one main woman, even if they have a few minor ones or short term flings on the side.
I couldn't find the post. But, I think it was Junglebird who defined 3 main types of Farang here. However, I think the breakdown is more complex.
1/ The visitors
a/ newbies
b/ veterans
2/ Part-time inhabitants - stay here for 3-6 months/year
3/ Full-time inhabitants
a/ retirees
b/ temporary workers (on a fixed contract of 1-3 years before they go home)
c/ permanent workers who have made a life here and plan to retire
All have different motivations. But, from personal experience, I'd say that the trend I describe is the common track for anyone who is here in some on-going permanent capacity.
What I've noticed among most of my long-term friends is a complete change of attitude about what type of Thai woman attracts them and is acceptable to them. Pretty well all my Farang friends and acquaintenances, who have been here any amount of time think that most of the P4P girls (especially in Pattaya) are unappealing. That's a much more accurate word than unattractive because it is true that there are plenty of attractive girls in P4P. But, I find them largely unappealing as do many people I know. I think that is the distinction I should have made in the past, rather than make declarative and ultimately inaccurate statements about them being ugly. Although I feel I'm just as entitled to say certain girls are ugly, as are the guys who swoon over the likes of Na or whoever.
In any even, right now, you are in a honeymoon period. It's all still fun and games, not to mention very novel. But, at some point all that will likely wear off. It probably will take much longer in Pattaya, as the place really has little to do with the reality of Thailand. Living there seems akin to living in some foggy bubble, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Too much Thai reality can sometimes be too much to take. However, Pattaya is such a perversion of the culture and the way the people actually are that, whenever I've been there, I've found even the so-called "regular girls" to be quite fucked in their thinking. So many Farang around have quite corrupted even the uncorruptable.
BTW, while not married, I am happily involved in a serious relationship which is the best thing I've ever had. I can make that statement because I've shagged 400 or so Thai women since coming here. That, btw is not bragging as I know guys who've done double that number. Still, it does give me enough experience to have a somewhat informed POV. As often stated, I am 55 and have an extremely cute 22 y.o. GF, who makes all of those 400+ pale by comparison. I have a couple of Gigs. But, basically, I'm quite content with the one. It is I think the natural course of things here, although certainly not for everyone. For example, I can't ever imagine Opebo having a Mrs. Opebo or even a significant other (although I know he has had in the past). Perhaps, the same applies to you.
...In any even, right now, you are in a honeymoon period. It's all still fun and games, not to mention very novel. But, at some point all that will likely wear off. It probably will take much longer in Pattaya, as the place really has little to do with the reality of Thailand. Living there seems akin to living in some foggy bubble, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Too much Thai reality can sometimes be too much to take. However, Pattaya is such a perversion of the culture and the way the people actually are that, whenever I've been there, I've found even the so-called "regular girls" to be quite fucked in their thinking. So many Farang around have quite corrupted even the uncorruptable...
OK, then ... I will suspend my expert judgement on this subject at least until my foggy bubble bursts and I am finally able to see matters in the way seasoned expats like yourself perceive them. My problem in the past life, however, has always been that it has been all too easy to form attachments to women ... which lead to relationships ... which lead to marriage ... which inevitably leads to disaster. This problem does not present itself with the sex workers as I have no desire for any serious relationship with them no matter how beautiful they might be.
If what you say is true, I'm looking forward to the prospect of finding a good girl, but my question to you remains unanswered, and that is: How are you able to avoid the marriage trap yourself and still have a serious relationship with a woman much younger than you? Does she know that there is no prospect of marriage with you and not care, or will you be willing to tie the knot?
There is no real use for the pejorative "jek" anymore in Bangkok- by now everyone who matters is a "jek".
Of course I have no idea what means 'jek', but from the context of your analysis we can assume it means Chinese. I agree with your comments about the clearly defined ethnic and class division in Thai society. I would only point out that the brutality and viciousness of those at the top here is no different from back home - at least if 'back home' is the USA. Isaan people remind me a lot of the downtrodden americans one never sees on TV - and I don't mean only blacks or hispanics; working class whites are profoundly demeaned.
A fellow I know once said that 'Thailand is like what North America would have been if the natives had been more numerous and disease-resistant.' The Chinese-Thai correspond to the marauding whites, and the Isaan/Lao and other darker portions of the Thai nation correspond to american indians, in the Thai case used as slaves, instead of killed off quickly a la america. I thought it was an interesting comparison, and provided a clear understanding of capitalist/genocidal processes in both countries.
Old Thai Hand
11-29-07, 01:05
If what you say is true, I'm looking forward to the prospect of finding a good girl, but my question to you remains unanswered, and that is: How are you able to avoid the marriage trap yourself and still have a serious relationship with a woman much younger than you? Does she know that there is no prospect of marriage with you and not care, or will you be willing to tie the knot?
I guess this is an aspect of the culture of which you are unaware. There are in fact two kinds of marriage here. There's the legal kind that involves going to the registry office and getting a marriage certificate. Then, there's the kind that will totally satisfy the girl and her family (much more so, actually), but leave you legally free. This is the traditional Thai wedding, performed by a monk, celebrated by family and friends and not legally binding in any way. This is includes of course the traditional engagement ceremony where you give the family 'sin sord' (dowry) so that they can show off to the village what a good catch you are. With a girl from a good family this is all for show. They don't keep the money. This will be the case with my GF and I. So, she gets her marriage and saves face with family and friends and I still, in effect have my freedom. If it doesn't work out, I can simply walk away without any legal obligation, whatsoever.
Why do you think there are so many single mothers in this country with no support from the husband? Most marriages here are still of the traditional kind and therefore the man can just walk away when he wants to. The legal registration of marriage is a relatively recent thing (mainly the last 25 or 30 years) and is mostly only practiced in the city. It is totally voluntary. Upcountry marriages are almost exclusively of the traditional kind and have no legal basis at all. Even when legal, the laws are incredibly weak. There is no community property, no alimony, and no support in anyway, if the marriage ends in a divorce. For example, if the house is in the man's name, he can throw out the wife. She has no legal recourse, whatsoever. The only issue in a traditional vs. legal marriage is one of child custody. In a traditional marriage the mother always has custody. But, in a legal marriage, the father can claim custody, as well (although few Thai men would ever do this).
Old Thai Hand
11-29-07, 01:22
The Chinese-Thai correspond to the marauding whites, and the Isaan/Lao and other darker portions of the Thai nation correspond to american indians, in the Thai case used as slaves, instead of killed off quickly a la america. I thought it was an interesting comparison, and provided a clear understanding of capitalist/genocidal processes in both countries.
Well, except that Isaan/Lao aren't any more Thai than the Thai-Chinese. Thailand is in fact a polyglot of feifdoms welded together by murderous in-fighting with the Chakri dynasty finally rising to the top in 1787. The Thai mind has been succesfully brainwashed into thinking that there is some single entity called "Thainess", when the truth is that Thailand is multicultural melting pot of sorts, similar to the US.
In fact the only true ethnic Thais are the central plains Thais centred around Bangkok. The rest of the country is made up of outsiders like Isaan people, Hilltribes, jungle natives in Nan, southern Malay/Indian, northern Lanna and the Chinese everywhere.
While it is true that the Chinese have risen to be the power elite in most cases, they a relative newcomers. The true power is still in the hands of the old Thai families that may have some Chinese blood, but who are predominantly Thai and who go back 500+ years or so.
BTW the term 'jek' is a derogatory term that was mainly applied by ethnic Thais to 'recent' (starting about 100 or so years ago) Chinese immigrants, who, of course eventually rose to be the money power in the country. Ex-PM Taksin is one of those. They can be spotted by their names, which have more than two syllables and often a dozen or more letters. The usual Thai name is relatively short and has only two syllables.
Overall, the social and ethic organization of Thailand is quite complex and not easily interpreted by those not familiar with its intricacies. To simply say those with dark skin are the slaves and those with white are the masters is childish, simplistic and highly inaccurate. While white skin certainly is the aesthetic nirvana to which all Thai women aspire, it is not all that guarantees being in the elite. The Royal Family itself are somewhat dark-skinned by comparison to the ideal and it hasn't hurt them any.
As usual in your socialist rants, Mr. O, your ignorance of the country and culture and over-simplification of things defeats your argument.
Jungle Bluebird
11-29-07, 03:34
2 issues I would like to raise/add:
1.) Pattaya and Patong (Phuket) are in fact slums. These places offer the same little insight into the social economic tapestry like any other slum in Africa or wherever.
Any foreigner living there for some time will confirm this. Police is incredible corrupt in these places (to be placed there cops pay prime handling fees), overall no environmental concerns, high drug use plus, like in any other slum, loads of guns and violence.
Newbie’s to Thailand meet girls there and unlike Bangkok most of the P4P girls do speak English. So a lot of new found Thailand insight comes from the little roaches inhabiting these places. Hardly educated insight into this highly complex society.
2.) To marry a P4P girls is simply out of the question (for the average guy this is). When getting engaged to 'normal' girls (non P4P) the marriage thing is easy to be kept at bay. Just make it clear from the start that you do not care about her family and that you never have any intention to get involved in family issues.
Yes, sounds a bit hard, but it works. Ground rules when getting married to a Thai girl are very, very important. Thai have little discipline, and need to know their spot. Any false (or real) concern about the Thai family will lead to problems. After all one marries the girl and NOT the family.
JB
I ... This will be the case with my GF and I. So, she gets her marriage and saves face with family and friends and I still, in effect have my freedom. If it doesn't work out, I can simply walk away without any legal obligation, whatsoever... Even when legal, the laws are incredibly weak. There is no community property, no alimony, and no support in anyway, if the marriage ends in a divorce. For example, if the house is in the man's name, he can throw out the wife. She has no legal recourse, whatsoever...
Fascinating!!! Incredible!!! Unimaginable!!! Outstanding!!!
Every day I find another reason to love this place. Thailand is truely paradise on earth for men like me.
Jungle Bluebird
11-29-07, 03:47
Bob
... my 2 cents...:-) in Thailand 32 years for a 'girl' makes her pretty much non-competitive with regard to marriage. She is in fact considered old. Ask any Thai girl at an age of 26 and she will respond that she is old already and no longer wanted. As farangs we judge by what we see. Thai's go along traditional thinking.
I prefer women around 30, but my experience is they come in 2 groups.
Either frustrated, nice at first but with a huge chip on their shoulder - or - independent business women who’ve been there done that. They may have kids and have no intention to get married again. The latter are more fun to be with.
And.. whatever you will do, she will always assume your are screwing around. Her grandfather did that, so did her father. Why would you be any different. In fact you might as well just go for it then, just do NOT get caught.
JB
I think you have me all wrong OTH, this girl is not some teenager from upcountry. Secondly I did not meet her on some dating website either. I am incontact with a small number of girls, I met this girl through her cousin.
I have never said that she was never going to be my girlfriend, only that I need more time to know her better. With that said, yes I still maintain contact with this girl.
With every trip I learn a little bit more, but still no expert. I also learn from reading this forum and chating to my Thai friends online, and I have some friends at home that r married to Thai women.
Also this girl is 32 years old and does have some life experience. I did not put a gun to her head and force her into bed with me, she had that planned all along.
But answer me this, western thinking of a friend is different to a Thai thinking of a friend. How do I tell her I am going to another province to visit a friend only. Without her thinking I am going to visit another girlfriend. This is a honest question not trying to find a way to bullshit her. I had this problem last trip.
Old Thai Hand
11-29-07, 07:18
2 issues I would like to raise/add:
1.) Pattaya and Patong (Phuket) are in fact slums. These places offer the same little insight into the social economic tapestry like any other slum in Africa or wherever.
Any foreigner living there for some time will confirm this. Police is incredible corrupt in these places (to be placed there cops pay prime handling fees), overall no environmental concerns, high drug use plus, like in any other slum, loads of guns and violence.
Newbie’s to Thailand meet girls there and unlike Bangkok most of the P4P girls do speak English. So a lot of new found Thailand insight comes from the little roaches inhabiting these places. Hardly educated insight into this highly complex society.
2.) To marry a P4P girls is simply out of the question (for the average guy this is). When getting engaged to 'normal' girls (non P4P) the marriage thing is easy to be kept at bay. Just make it clear from the start that you do not care about her family and that you never have any intention to get involved in family issues.
Yes, sounds a bit hard, but it works. Ground rules when getting married to a Thai girl are very, very important. Thai have little discipline, and need to know their spot. Any false (or real) concern about the Thai family will lead to problems. After all one marries the girl and NOT the family.
JB
Re: Pattaya
In fact Pattaya is the most crime-ridden place in Thailand. I'm just waiting for the day that Daddy07's rental is broken into and all his gear is stolen. The number of break-ins and thefts in Pattaya are at epidemic proportions.
Re: "After all one marries the girl and NOT the family."
While I do agree that clear and firm ground rules need to be set early on, for any kind of successful relationship here, you simply cannot discount the family. The truth is one does marry the family as well as the girl. That is about as "Thai culture" as you can get. There's no way around it, or kiss the girl goodbye. How you choose to handle that and establish your position is up to you.
Jungle Bluebird
11-29-07, 09:18
Yes you are right that it is expected in Thai culture to get engaged in family matters, but it is exactly for this reason that by all means one should avoid such engagement.
The g/f or wife can be the sweetest thing, but once the ever money hungry family with all their ridiculous adventures comes knocking on the door, the loving relationship with dearest is put under immense strain.
Myself and friends made it clear from the start that they have little sympathy for any family issues and this worked well. I blamed it on a lack of cultural understanding, which is also certainly true.
JB
Re: "After all one marries the girl and NOT the family."
While I do agree that clear and firm ground rules need to be set early on, for any kind of successful relationship here, you simply cannot discount the family. The truth is one does marry the family as well as the girl. That is about as "Thai culture" as you can get. There's no way around it, or kiss the girl goodbye. How you choose to handle that and establish your position is up to you.
Thai girls looked after the family before the farang came on to the scene and there is no reason for things to change. They wouldn't if she married or lived with a Thai man.
Simplest way (and it works) is to tell wife that her monthly allowance which replaces any previous job earnings is hers to do as she wishes (give to family, the wat, cards, lottery or whatever), and there is no more for 1 month. Family matters are her responsibility solely and once her allowance is gone there is no more! Both she and the family will soon learn the rules.
Old Thai Hand
11-29-07, 10:40
The g/f or wife can be the sweetest thing, but once the ever money hungry family with all their ridiculous adventures comes knocking on the door, the loving relationship with dearest is put under immense strain.JB
It might come as a shock to you. But, not all Thai families have "rediculous adventures", nor are they looking for a Farang ATM to join the family. It's true that the vast majority of Farang seem to get themselves tied up with such families. But, that's because they hook up with practically the first girl they meet, which usually is a girl of lowly origins, with questionable intentions, and unreasonable expectations. If one takes the time, one can find a girl with a good upbringing (who has a legitimate job, btw), from a reasonable family, who are not dysfunctional, or needy and thus don't have their hands out. There are plenty of girls from families like that in this country.
Bob
... my 2 cents...:-) in Thailand 32 years for a 'girl' makes her pretty much non-competitive with regard to marriage. She is in fact considered old. Ask any Thai girl at an age of 26 and she will respond that she is old already and no longer wanted. As farangs we judge by what we see. Thai's go along traditional thinking.
I prefer women around 30, but my experience is they come in 2 groups.
Either frustrated, nice at first but with a huge chip on their shoulder - or - independent business women who’ve been there done that. They may have kids and have no intention to get married again. The latter are more fun to be with.
And.. whatever you will do, she will always assume your are screwing around. Her grandfather did that, so did her father. Why would you be any different. In fact you might as well just go for it then, just do NOT get caught.
JBYes I am aware about Thai girls needing to get married before they are 26 years old, and that is one thing I like about this girl. Her words " I am old and not sexy". I have a friend who is under pressure to marry his girlfriend and I am not sure where his relationship will end up.
When in BKK I always stay in Soi 4 or close by and she knows that, she knows I drink in the bars. But when she asked if I take girls back to my hotel well I wasn't going to say I did. Soi 4 is no place for a Thai girl but she meets me there. But I haven't taken her to any of my regular bars. Gullivers is the place to go.
JB you mentioned her father and grandfather but you forgot someone, her brother currently has a gig. Yes I believe she will never truly trust me. That is why I asked the question how do I tell her that I am going to visit a friend and not have her think I going to visit another girlfriend? Every where I go in Thailand I make friends and try to meet one or two of them on every trip I make.
Lastly I believe she is in the frustrated group, as she works long hours for little money and she sees girls working in bars laughing and joking and having much money, I know she is tempted by the money like many other girls. She even told me she went for a walk along Sukhumvit, but ran home after some guy tried to hit on her.
I have told her working in a bar was not a good idea especial seen she loves a drink or two.
I have to ask about the going rate of a dowry, I know it depends on what the family consider a fare payment. It's just when I was in Pattaya last I was chatting to a bargirl about her friend (another bargirl) getting married. This guy was going to pay 500,000 baht to her parents, 300,000 baht for the party afterwards and the 10 gold baht. Please correct me if I am wrong but that 1 gold baht is about 12,000/13,000 baht. So he is going to pay about 930,000 baht to marry a girl he meet in a bar.
I know of a Thai girl from good family and her husband paid about have that for her.
Just interested what you married guy think about it.
As usual in your socialist rants, Mr. O, your ignorance of the country and culture and over-simplification of things defeats your argument.
OTH, I have long been well aware of every detail you mentioned in this last report (and who isn't?), with the one exception of the term 'jek'. Even in that case, Thai colleagues have oft described to me the phenomenon of dislike of more recent Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants relative to older echelons, though I had forgotten the specific pejoratives used.
I do appreciate your report however - quite a well written summary. I only object to your assumption that this common knowledge is somehow an insider's insight.
Jungle Bluebird
11-29-07, 11:39
Sorry OTH, to clarify. Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters. It's not that all Thai families are after money. It's simply the fact that most Thais have not yet gained the ability to look after themselves and their relatives in a responsible manner.
So best is not to get involved in family issues. Its not only about money, it's about just everything. Once you are in, good chance you get fully sucked into the daily escapades of your typical Thai family, well off or not.
JB
It might come as a shock to you. But, not all Thai families have "rediculous adventures", nor are they looking for a Farang ATM to join the family. It's true that the vast majority of Farang seem to get themselves tied up with such families. But, that's because they hook up with practically the first girl they meet, which usually is a girl of lowly origins, with questionable intentions, and unreasonable expectations. If one takes the time, one can find a girl with a good upbringing (who has a legitimate job, btw), from a reasonable family, who are not dysfunctional, or needy and thus don't have their hands out. There are plenty of girls from families like that in this country.
LittleBigMan
11-29-07, 21:06
I agree and I disagree, Take it from me I would right now side more with OTH, because it is impossible to do what you are talking about (JB).
For years before I actually made it official legally to marry my wife I was so self center because I was married before in the states that I didn't necessary find the need to marry again in Thailand even though she had my son. I just felt as long as I took responsibility that it didn't really matter in Thailand since so many Thai's boys and men just walkaway and never give support. Prior to that I made it very clear that I didn't have much money and that whatever she see and hear from other Thai's that all of us Farang seem rich that wasn't true in my particular case. I spent years drilling that in her head and that I can't and will not be a ATM machine for anyone. I never came out directly to say her family but used other people as a example to get my point across. For years prior to my retirement we lived in a small room 1500 baht per month on the other side of Sukhumvit in Pattaya and she ran a small mini-mart. The place was new and clean with a small A/C, small water heater shower and a sit down toilet for me. To be honest life was real simple for me but I didn't know what she was going through until my brother pointed it out for me.
Her family living in Sukhothai, knew of me but never saw me. They just knew I was a farang and that being such wondered why she and our son was living like a regular poor Thai? Her family treated her poorly because they felt that as long as I wasn't going to marry her that she was no better that a BG, there was a expectation! When the family finally met me one day they couldn't believe what they were seeing a farang that wasn't white as expected. I was a Chinese Amercan that look just like them except I was wearing a polo shirt and Nikes. I showed my respect for the family and through a translator made it very clear what my current and future intend would be.
Today we are married and everything I have purchased is in her and my son name. I will gladly walk away if thing don't work out knowing that I have made a impact on their lives and I have no misconceptions or doubt at all! As for her family in Sukhothai, no matter how bad they treated her it is still her family but you can never just built a wall and shut them out completely. Aside for a few thousand baht here and there when her mother or we visit the family hasn't called for money but I know she gives what she can. When it comes to family whether you are abroad or in Thailand you do what you can to help when the need is truly necessary. JB, if you have a heart which I know you do, it just isn't that easy as drawing a line in the sand! years back I felt somewhat as you but when you actually experience it you become more open and flexible to things. But you do have a valid point that being in their daily lives can be a problem, for me, were in Pattaya and their in Sukhothai so the distant does help.
As for crime in Pattaya which I can speak of it does seem that crime is increasing and I certainly know what some are capable of since they try to break into my home. Thailand is a country of have and have not and those that seem to want give the other good Thai's a bad name for farangs.
Just my 2 cents from my own experience. LBM
I have to ask about the going rate of a dowry, I know it depends on what the family consider a fare payment. It's just when I was in Pattaya last I was chatting to a bargirl about her friend (another bargirl) getting married. This guy was going to pay 500,000 baht to her parents, 300,000 baht for the party afterwards and the 10 gold baht. Please correct me if I am wrong but that 1 gold baht is about 12,000/13,000 baht. So he is going to pay about 930,000 baht to marry a girl he meet in a bar.
I know of a Thai girl from good family and her husband paid about have that for her.
Just interested what you married guy think about it.
The going dowry rate in my Isan village when a Thai man marries a Thai girl (invariably from the same village) is around 40,000bt + 2/3bt weight of gold (another 40,000bt) The girl usually has a mundane job, but is not and never has been a sex worker.
When a farang is to marry a bar girl, the family usually demand a minimum of 100,000bt + some gold. They overlook the fact that their daughter will have a life well beyond their greatest expectations, and its often a case of pay up or you don't get my daughter!
A bar girl/sex worker, having likely been fucked by hundreds of men, and most probably having had 1/2 kids doesn't warrant any dowry in my book. Marrying her is doing her and her family a big service and from that alone they should gain face and respect.
My wife was never a sex worker. She worked in the noodle factory and spoke no English when we met. In general conversation conducted in Thai, on day 1, I told her that if ever I remarried, there would be no dowry, no party for the village scroungers, no Monks and no handouts for her family. I did not anticipate that our meeting would develop into a full relationship.
We have been together 9 years now, we are legally married (40bt in the local amphur), there was no dowry and no gold. The modest monthly allowance I give my wife is mostly banked, apart from a small amount she gives to her mother (the same as she gave her from her monthly wage packet from the noodle factory). She and our kids have a good life, good food, holidays etc and I believe thats how it should be. I married her and am responsible for her and our kids -not the family or the village who all claim some relationship.
I would suggest every farang contemplating marriage refuses to pay a dowry point blank. It may be the Thai custom, but you are not Thai, and she will benefit greatly from marrying you rather than a deadbeat Thai man. If she only wants you for your money then she will not marry you and that is no loss for you. But is she truly loves you, she will either persuade her parents not to require a dowry, or turn against them.
Old Thai Hand
11-30-07, 00:59
OTH, I have long been well aware of every detail you mentioned in this last report (and who isn't?), with the one exception of the term 'jek'. Even in that case, Thai colleagues have oft described to me the phenomenon of dislike of more recent Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants relative to older echelons, though I had forgotten the specific pejoratives used.
I do appreciate your report however - quite a well written summary. I only object to your assumption that this common knowledge is somehow an insider's insight.
I never claimed it was insider insight. But, I doubt that it is common knowledge on this board. I will also add, as I have mentioned in the past that the identity of those who hold true power in this country is not generally common knowledge even among Thais.
Old Thai Hand
11-30-07, 01:03
Sorry OTH, to clarify. Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters. It's not that all Thai families are after money. It's simply the fact that most Thais have not yet gained the ability to look after themselves and their relatives in a responsible manner.
So best is not to get involved in family issues. Its not only about money, it's about just everything. Once you are in, good chance you get fully sucked into the daily escapades of your typical Thai family, well off or not.
JB
While not disagreeing with you about the general folly of Thais, I still think there are exceptions. But, I think we might both agree that in the end, you have to really set rules and try to put as many barriers as you can between you and the family, without being too obvious about it. But, in the end you still have to be involved to some extent. It's just the nature of things. I've been here a long time and had a few serious relationships which have always involved family to some extent. But, I've been very lucky that it hasn't resulted in too many dramas. My current GF's family are about as well adjusted a family as I've ever seen anywhere. They're certainly more balanced than my own family back in Canada. But, I know I've probably lucked out on that one. I have friends who are involved with families where there's one drama after another. While, families from the lower echelons certainly are the worst when it comes to ongoing dramas, families from all walks of Thai life seem to be inordinately fucked up.
LittleBigMan
11-30-07, 01:03
As with Bumholes1, my wife wasn't a sex worker. She was 28 years old and in Thai culture she was over the hill. This didn't come from me but from her. As noted in my earlier report I didn't have a lot of money and I make it clear. My own opinion about a dowry was I wasn't marrying Thaksin daughter so any amount ask by the family was out of the question. They don't expect that amount from a Thai so why expect it from me. Luckily for me the topic never came up maybe because of years of stressing no money from my wife they never ask as far as I know. When I went up to Sukhothai, gave a few thousand baht to the mother and family for the little kids they lined up and I gave them each 100 baht. No party just a few strings on the wrist and I was married in their eyes!
As with Bumholes1, my job was to provide a quality life for my family and a education for my son. I have never been in favor of a dowry and any family especially a BG one asking for such a amount is living in a dream world and is doing nothing more than a BG, saphoning money from Farangs over the internet! If they ask for that before they are married one better brace themselves for damn sure because they're looking at him as a ATM for the family and not as a person trying to provide a better life for their daugther and her kids.
LBM
Old Thai Hand
11-30-07, 01:35
I have to ask about the going rate of a dowry, I know it depends on what the family consider a fare payment. It's just when I was in Pattaya last I was chatting to a bargirl about her friend (another bargirl) getting married. This guy was going to pay 500,000 baht to her parents, 300,000 baht for the party afterwards and the 10 gold baht. Please correct me if I am wrong but that 1 gold baht is about 12,000/13,000 baht. So he is going to pay about 930,000 baht to marry a girl he meet in a bar.
I know of a Thai girl from good family and her husband paid about have that for her.
Just interested what you married guy think about it.
I've written about this in detail before including an article in The Bangkok Post some years ago. The rates for dowries are actually pretty consistent and depend exclusively on the status of the family, the youth of the girl, and how beautiful she is. Where the family comes from also is a factor.
The dowry should drop dramatically if the woman is over 30, or has had a child and should not exist at all if she's been married before or she's been a bargirl. Bargirls are social outcasts and if they are lucky to get some hapless Farang to actually marry them, they or their families should not expect anything more (although they'll certainly demand it).
To summarize and simplify:
The going rate for poor Isaan farmgirls is, as Bumholes states about 40-50,000 and 1-2 baht of gold. It seems that rate doubles to 100,000 whenever a Farang enters the picture and I've seen more than one moron agree to pay it.
In the north (Chiang Mai, China Rai etc.) the starting rate even for country girls is 200,000 and 5 baht of gold, which reflects the premium placed on what are considered here the great beauties of the country.
Generally, a middle-class Thai girl will be about 500,000+ and 5-10 baht of gold.
An upper-class girl will be 1,000,000+ and 15-25 baht of gold.
It should be noted that if you marry a poor farmgirl, especially from Isaan you can kiss the money goodbye and will probably keep paying again and again long after the wedding.
But, if you marry a girl from a better family, the money and gold are usually just for "show" and you'll get it all back. Also educated Thais tend to be considerably more enlightened on the whole matter. For example, while I've agreed in principle to pay sin sord, my GF's father has said it's unnecessary because I'm a Farang, it's not my custom and that I have been taking care of her. As far as he's concerned, that's enough. As my GF says, they don't need to put on a show. Her father is the bigshot in the village, has the biggest house, 3 cars and lots of land. He doesn't need to impress anyone by flashing my money around.
M P Lurker
11-30-07, 06:51
<cut>
The dowry should drop dramatically if the woman is over 30, or has had a child and should not exist at all if she's been married before or she's been a bargirl. Bargirls are social outcasts and if they are lucky to get some hapless Farang to actually marry them, they or their families should not expect anything more (although they'll certainly demand it).
<cut>
It should be noted that if you marry a poor farmgirl, especially from Isaan you can kiss the money goodbye and will probably keep paying again and again long after the wedding.
<cut>
The good news is my GF has been married before and has a daughter.
So should be no dowry.
Her official divorce was thankfully cheap as her ex had not found out about my existence.
The bad news is that I tend to choose girls without looking at the family status at all. e.g. Does she have a nice temperament? Is she jai dee?
Is she pretty? Does she like sex a lot?
So having picked up an Ubon girl from a poor family, I will be paying one way or another for ever. Fortuantely there are not too many members in the immediate family.
One problem is her brother needs a dowry to get married, probably 40K Baht. So far she has ignored his requests for help as money needed to be spent on more urgent problems like house repairs, but how long can this last?
Once all the family know about the Farang boyfriend, I can see the requests for money will start getting more frequent. :(
So its not the GF who is the real problem. I can support her with no problems. Its her family. This is normal.
So having picked up an Ubon girl from a poor family, I will be paying one way or another for ever.
One problem is her brother needs a dowry to get married, probably 40K Baht.
Why will you be paying forever. Why pay at all. Just say NO!
Let her brother work and save money for his dowry. Not your problem. You no doubt had to work to get enough money to come to Thailand in the first place. We all did.
Let him do the same. If he really wants to marry, then he must save money instead of drinking and gambling as most Thai men do, and then coming to you with his hand out.
Say NO NO NO -in the long run you will earn respect
Thankyou all for your input on marriage, I have no plans to ever get married but u never know. I just thought it interesting how much some guys will pay for a girl, and do they really know what they are getting themselves into.
Don't you fellows who claim that 'Thais mess things up' find you are being a bit arrogant? After all the country functions very well - one has good roads, excellent power, decent food, reasonable safety, and so forth. I'll admit the water is sometimes less than perfect - they say you shouldn't drink it, and the pressure is often inadequate. Government is only moderately corrupt - personally I've never been asked for a bribe, and everything is done 'by the book', even though the book is a bit anti-farang.
On an individual level, people survive, live their lives, have kids, and even run businesses if they have a smidgen of Chinese blood (yes I'm being facetious).
I really can't see any signs of poor functioning of this society, at least compared to my homeland, the US (admittedly the very bottom of the barrel of 'first world' nations).
Opebo,
Cheer up!
Haven't you heard that Lonely Planet recently voted US citizens one of the nicest, friendliest and most hospitable people on Mother Earth?
(Kansas excluded, no doubt:D)
Bargirls are social outcasts and if they are lucky to get some hapless Farang to actually marry them, they or their families should not expect anything more (although they'll certainly demand it).
Some of the families never find out what their daughter is doing if she doesnt
show up in her hometown with a Farang. They usually think she is working as
a shop assistant, hotel derk or so. And they propably dont seek for the truth
as long as she is sending them some money.
NicFrenchy
11-30-07, 19:42
he must save money instead of drinking and gambling as most Thai men doIt seems to me you forgot that they also have to pay for their giks (and I think they each have more than 1 gik on the side). Once he'll get married, he will most probably have a mia Noi too. And, let me guess, he could easily have a kid in Thailand somewhere nobody knows about.
Jungle Bluebird: "Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters."
JB, I have lived and worked in many places all around the world. Leave out the word "Thais" in your quote and insert andy nationality you wish. It works. Trust me.
Caanadians have the uncanny ability
Russians have the uncanny ability
South Africans have the uncanny ability
Brits have the uncanny ability
etc...
1. In fact the only true ethnic Thais are the central plains Thais centred around Bangkok.
2. While it is true that the Chinese have risen to be the power elite in most cases, they a relative newcomers. The true power is still in the hands of the old Thai families that may have some Chinese blood, but who are predominantly Thai and who go back 500+ years or so.
3. While white skin certainly is the aesthetic nirvana to which all Thai women aspire, it is not all that guarantees being in the elite. The Royal Family itself are somewhat dark-skinned by comparison to the ideal and it hasn't hurt them any.1. Would these be the lighter or darker skinned Thais?
2. Are you speaking of political, monetary, military, or moral power?
To me many TGs look oriental, some Japanese, others Chinese. Many look like something else, maybe E. Indian, maybe a Canadian caucasian with a suntan.
3. While in the West fair skinned ladies frequent beaches and tanning salons seeking the Thai skin colour. Personally I prefer whited skinned girls with blond hair, but I have seen very few blond TGs here. Red heads are much more common in the NEP area.
I guess this is an aspect of the culture of which you are unaware. There are in fact two kinds of marriage here. There's the legal kind that involves going to the registry office and getting a marriage certificate. Then, there's the kind that will totally satisfy the girl and her family (much more so, actually), but leave you legally free. This is the traditional Thai wedding, performed by a monk, celebrated by family and friends and not legally binding in any way. This is includes of course the traditional engagement ceremony where you give the family 'sin sord' (dowry) so that they can show off to the village what a good catch you are. With a girl from a good family this is all for show. They don't keep the money. This will be the case with my GF and I. So, she gets her marriage and saves face with family and friends and I still, in effect have my freedom. If it doesn't work out, I can simply walk away without any legal obligation, whatsoever.
Why do you think there are so many single mothers in this country with no support from the husband? Most marriages here are still of the traditional kind and therefore the man can just walk away when he wants to. The legal registration of marriage is a relatively recent thing (mainly the last 25 or 30 years) and is mostly only practiced in the city. It is totally voluntary. Upcountry marriages are almost exclusively of the traditional kind and have no legal basis at all. Even when legal, the laws are incredibly weak. There is no community property, no alimony, and no support in anyway, if the marriage ends in a divorce. For example, if the house is in the man's name, he can throw out the wife. She has no legal recourse, whatsoever. The only issue in a traditional vs. legal marriage is one of child custody. In a traditional marriage the mother always has custody. But, in a legal marriage, the father can claim custody, as well (although few Thai men would ever do this).Could one gain resident status by marrying a TG, whether the marriage
is for love or to live in LOS? If so that could save Farangs the hassle of constant VISA runs.
Terry Terrier
12-02-07, 01:07
Jungle Bluebird: "Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters."
JB, I have lived and worked in many places all around the world. Leave out the word "Thais" in your quote and insert andy nationality you wish. It works. Trust me.
Caanadians have the uncanny ability
Russians have the uncanny ability
South Africans have the uncanny ability
Brits have the uncanny ability
etc...
He won't understand. Thick as fuck. That's why he's an expat in a third world country.
Any updates on the office politics, JB?
M P Lurker
12-02-07, 02:06
Jungle Bluebird: "Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters."
JB, I have lived and worked in many places all around the world. Leave out the word "Thais" in your quote and insert andy nationality you wish. It works. Trust me.
Caanadians have the uncanny ability
Russians have the uncanny ability
South Africans have the uncanny ability
Brits have the uncanny ability
etc...
Animby,
Why do many Thai construction companies hire a Farang forum to oversee the work? To make sure it gets done properly (not fucked up).
How many Thais does it take to sell someone a simple item in a department store? (Just one person in the west).
Its easy to see the strong cultural differences from the west.
On the other hand I like to work in Europe, excluding the U.K. and I don't like to work in USA much.
Why?
In the USA and U.K., people are always finding excuses not to take action. They are basically lazy and don't work very hard (this coming from myself, a lazy person).
I find other European countries better for getting things done like Germany, Austria, Holland, etc.
I work in IT (large Computer systems).
Overall we see that not all countries are the same.
The work ethic and standards of quality vary greatly.
Old Thai Hand
12-02-07, 02:31
Could one gain resident status by marrying a TG, whether the marriage
is for love or to live in LOS? If so that could save Farangs the hassle of constant VISA runs.
The short answer is no. It requires a lot of money, being here at least 3 years and having a work permit for all of that time.
Old Thai Hand
12-02-07, 02:36
Animby,
Overall we see that not all countries are the same.
The work ethic and standards of quality vary greatly.
This discussion should be in the Living in Thailand thread. But, anyway, to keep it short...Having worked with and for Thais for 11 years, I can say that they have absolutely no work ethic, or interest in quality control, they fuck up pretty much everything, but somehow the country still stumbles along. At times it truly boggles my mind as to how things manage to keep going.
Amazing Thailand!
M P Lurker
12-02-07, 13:24
This discussion should be in the Living in Thailand thread. But, anyway, to keep it short...Having worked with and for Thais for 11 years, I can say that they have absolutely no work ethic, or interest in quality control, they fuck up pretty much everything, but somehow the country still stumbles along. At times it truly boggles my mind as to how things manage to keep going.
Amazing Thailand!
Even in the Thai Soapies (lakhorn Thai), the rich Thai people are depicted as doing no work whatsoever. The rich man shows up to his company only to take some girls out to lunch and to sign a few documents. Thats it.
Its little wonder that Thais don't think they should work hard if the TV portrays most of them as lazy.
I dunno.
My HiSo ex gf works her butt off for her computer company. She literally has no life.
When I volunteered in Chiang Mai, some of the people were very lazy (men) and I met one incredible female workaholic. She literally lived by her job and worked nights/weekends.
At the same time, many of my friends who live in Thailand echo OTT's sentiments. I guess I'll get to learn first hand. LOL.
Royalflush
12-05-07, 02:34
I met a Thai girl in the States and dated her for about 4 months, and I have to say that it was a rather bizarre dating experience. I've never been to Thailand but having read a bit through this forum, my impression is that traditional Thai women are generally shy and demure, even to the point of keeping the lights off when they go to bed with you. Well, this one turned out to be a porn-addicted, pot-smoking, anal-loving sex machine who I'm thinking must have been in the game in Bangkok. Let me describe her and perhaps you can chime in.
We met at a business networking function, and sort of clicked, although I didn't find her to be particularly interesting. She is very pretty, in her early 30s, and has a beautiful, tight body, but has practically no interests outside of her "cult-like" 1-1 marketing business that is supposed to make her rich someday.
I invited her to dinner for the first date and she changed the game on me by saying we should watch a movie and order dinner in--she volunteered to bring a movie. When she arrived, it was pretty obvious what she had on her mind as she was dressed in a little, white micro dress, barely covering her crotch (up till then I'd only seen her in business clothes). She had a large, black purse with her, containing, among other things, several DVDs.
I ordered some food and within about 10 minutes, she had her shoes off on the couch and was sticking her feet in my crotch. We were eventually interrupted by the delivery guy. After dinner, she goes into the bathroom for something like 45 minutes, and I didn't know she was out until I heard her calling my name from the bedroom. Got inside and she's lying on the bed waiting for me. This is where it gets crazy--at least for me. She wants to put on one of her DVDs (she had three of them), and it's hard core porn. Then she tells me that it typically takes her three hours to get off, so I should be prepared. The sex was pretty much everything goes, but I wasn't prepared for her to want anal. Plus, she pulls out a vibrator from her purse and we're alternating between vaginal, anal, with vibrator--until I had to take a break.
She decides she wants to smoke, so I said sure, just go out on the deck. I was expecting cigarettes, but instead she pulls out a bong and a bag of weed from her purse. We both get a little high and then go back to work (yes, after a couple hours, it's more like work).
She continued coming over for months. Hardly ever wanted to go out anywhere or want me to spend money on her. All she wanted was hard sex, get high, and leave. At one point she brought up her fantasy of having a threesome, which was sounding pretty good to me until she clarified it by saying she wanted two guys on her at once, preferably one of them black. This was the turning point for me as I had already become a bit weary of the routine and even not looking forward to an entire night of working at getting her off.
We eventually stopped fucking each other, although we're still friends. My question to the people here is whether you think it's possible that a girl who behaves as she did could possibly come from the background she described: having a well-to-do father with a government job, a nice home in a Bangkok suburb, a university education, and a corporate marketing position.
Seems to me she must have been a pro. What do you think?
LittleBigMan
12-05-07, 02:46
Royalflush,
What the hell are you complaining about. You can't even get that in a pro-in Thailand. Certainly I haven't! and I know several girls in the business and out that don't give you that in the States You just happen to get a wild horny as hell girl Thai or non-Thai. You luck bastard you got a Royalflush handed to you!
LBM
Old Thai Hand
12-05-07, 04:18
Royalflush
First of all, there aren't that many pros that come from Bangkok. Most come from the Northeast.
Given that a large number of pros in Thailand come from the Northeast, it's surprising that girls from there who are non-pro tend to be among the most conservative and shy in the world because the culture there is still quite traditional.
In contrast, your girl coming as she does from what sounds like a middle-class background in Bangkok seems pretty standard for a Bangkok girl. When in-country, regular Thai girls are forced to have 2 personae - the public one which dictates that they be demure, lady-like, and soft-spoken and the private one in which many can be quite wild, depending on who they're with.
Your girl, because she's in the US and not governed by the constraints of Thais society has the freedom to explore her wild side with impunity. I've known plenty of TGs who liked porn, smoked dope and were into all kinds of kinky stuff and those are ones who still live here and have to keep up appearances. It's all part of the hypocricy of Thai culture.
A couple of years ago, a girl I was dating (an accountant at Toyota) brought a friend over to my place one night, and asked to watch a porn flick, during which they proceeded to strip and finger each other. Needless-to-say, it was an interesting night, that one would never expect from such girls. If you saw them on the street, they would look pretty normal and everyday.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
In contrast, your girl coming as she does from what sounds like a middle-class background in Bangkok seems pretty standard for a Bangkok girl. When in-country, regular Thai girls are forced to have 2 personae - the public one which dictates that they be demure, lady-like, and soft-spoken and the private one in which many can be quite wild, depending on who they're with.
QUOTE]
This is a good lesson for guys out there, if BG's acted more like TG's then they would have less trouble getting the girls into the hotels. I have stayed in hotels where guys walk into the hotel like love struck teenagers, then get asked for the girls ID and a joiners fee. I always walk into a hotel with a girl a couple of paces behind instead of under my arm.
Never been asked for girls ID or joiners fee, walked into a hotel once with two girls and decided to do the right thing. Told the girl at the front desk these are my friends, the girls left there ID's at the front desk and we kept on walking.
I am not big on public shows of affection.
[1] I've never been to Thailand but having read a bit through this forum, my impression is that traditional Thai women are generally shy and demure, even to the point of keeping the lights off when they go to bed with you.
[2] Well, this one turned out to be a porn-addicted, pot-smoking, anal-loving sex machine who I'm thinking must have been in the game in Bangkok.[1] My experience is the opposite in that Canadian SWs often want the lights out while BKK SWs do not dim them or ask me if they can do so. I've found only occasional exceptions re these Thai ladies. If a woman is self-conscious about her body, she will be more likely to want it hidden. But the TGs tend to have beautiful skin, whereas drug addicted Canuck hookers do not.
On the other hand, if you stare at a beautiful TG in your room, you will likely get the shy act. Whether that response is real or just a part of the P4P performance is debatable.
[2] It seems to me that quite a few of the TGs I've met are very horny and can enjoy sex sessions for one or more hours at a time. Although there are exceptions, neither this nor their shyness seem to be fake. But it could be that they have learned to be good actors like hookers in the Western world and professional sports players are known for. On that note, as others have warned, be wary of the Thai voodoo.
On the other hand if it is true what I've heard that Thai men only want sex about once a month, then these sex starved kittens may be getting a lot more bang from their farang. In more ways than one. So you see we are really doing these girls a big, big favour cuming here. And making Thailand a happier cuntry.
Have any members any experience of Thai women using sorceric methods to attract men? I know there is a tradition of sorcery and witchcraft in Thailand. Recently I was with a girl in Bangkok and having a great time despite her lack of English (she is from Isaan). I had been with her once before and I think she likes me. Several times I looked at her and found her looking at me in a particular way: her head was turned slightly up and to one side, her eyes were half closed, and she was looking intently at me out of the corner of one eye. When I looked at her she smiled and went back to normal. I thought this was just her idiosyncracy (we all have them) but then later I realised she did not do this the first night I was with her.
I have to say that I normally can walk away from places and from women without any problem but I have felt hugely sad to have left Bangkok and this woman.
Member #2041
12-06-07, 04:18
Royalflush, I am presently in Bangkok. As it seems that you are weary of servicing your lady friend's insatiable demands, I would volunteer to take up the slack for you and give it my all. Could you please provide her contact info? I don't even mind if she insists on a black fellow in one of the other holes, as long as it's on the opposite end from the one I'm working at the time.
Have any members any experience of Thai women using sorceric methods to attract men? No, Joe, in my experience it's only the Khmer girls what have the ability to cast spells. Of course, it only works if you believe.
"Those fingers in my hair
That sly come hither stare
That strips my conscience bare
Its witchcraft"
after a couple hours, it's more like work
Doesn't necessarily sound like a pro. Does sort of sound dysfunctional, though. Vibrators, porn and bongs on a first date? Hmmm. COuld be fun. Three hours in the saddle every time? I'm too old for that sort of labor.
Not sure I was ever that young.
Seriously, the average period of intromission is less than five minutes. Okay, all of us here on the forum are supermen. We last for an amazing hour. Therefore, the woman who needs three hours AND toys, is - by definition - dysfunctional.
M P Lurker
12-09-07, 01:11
Doesn't necessarily sound like a pro. Does sort of sound dysfunctional, though. Vibrators, porn and bongs on a first date? Hmmm. COuld be fun. Three hours in the saddle every time? I'm too old for that sort of labor.
Not sure I was ever that young.
Seriously, the average period of intromission is less than five minutes. Okay, all of us here on the forum are supermen. We last for an amazing hour. Therefore, the woman who needs three hours AND toys, is - by definition - dysfunctional.
You are sounding somewhat defensive.
Seriously, some women orgasm easily like my GF (no challenge at all - just 5 minutes), and others take a very long time to get there.
Some girls claim that vibes are better than men because they don't quit so easily. Manygirls like both vibes and men as well.
Normally the guy who comes too quick is considered the dysfunctional one by the girls.
I once met a young newbie bargirl in Patpong many years ago. Seriously she wanted to fuck many times throughout the night. Was well beyond my stamina too provide totally adequately for her insatiable lust for more orgasms. 3 rounds was enough for me, and that was when I was a lot younger.
Could be she had never had one before that night based on her desire for more and more. Certainly wish I had a vibrator with me that night to take up the slack. Serious dose of Vitamin V would have helped too, but was before Viagra/Cialis was invented.
Old Thai Hand
12-09-07, 03:15
I thought this story was interesting. Khon Kaen happens to be the number one province for online dating in Thailand. There are more TGs from KK on the various online dating sites, such as Thailovelinks etc., than anywhere else. There are English-speaking brokers who charge TGs fees to conduct online correspondence with unsuspecting Farang guys in other countries who think they're getting some innocent Thai country flower who just happens to speak excellent English. Almost all of these girls seem to be looking for the same thing: a rich Farang to take care of them. I'm sure disillusionment and misunderstanding kick in quickly for both parties once the bloom is off the rose. Lack of a common language, not to mention huge cultural differences exacerbated by Farang who have never lived here, but marry quickly are surely a huge part of the problem.
Therefore this story doesn't surprise me.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30058586
Have any members any experience of Thai women using sorceric methods to attract men? I know there is a tradition of sorcery and witchcraft in Thailand. Recently I was with a girl in Bangkok and having a great time despite her lack of English (she is from Isaan). I had been with her once before and I think she likes me. Several times I looked at her and found her looking at me in a particular way: her head was turned slightly up and to one side, her eyes were half closed, and she was looking intently at me out of the corner of one eye. When I looked at her she smiled and went back to normal. I thought this was just her idiosyncracy (we all have them) but then later I realised she did not do this the first night I was with her.
I have to say that I normally can walk away from places and from women without any problem but I have felt hugely sad to have left Bangkok and this woman.It's happen and it's not funny. The only advise is to be very careful because supernatural events can never touch or seen. It's always a risk you have to take.
You are sounding somewhat defensive.
Seriously, some women orgasm easily like my GF (no challenge at all - just 5 minutes), and others take a very long time to get there.
Some girls claim that vibes are better than men because they don't quit so easily. Manygirls like both vibes and men as well.
Normally the guy who comes too quick is considered the dysfunctional one by the girls.
Certainly didn't mean to sound defensive. Just trying to answer the poor guy's question. And you're right: a guy with premature shots IS dysfunctional. But, in a world where there are (in general) two sexes fucking each other and the usual period of intercourse is only a few minutes, a woman who requires three hours to complete is also dysfunctional.
Now maybe our correspondent did not bother to mention his paramour mounted 15 orgasms in the three hours. If so, then she's just a lover of fine sex or devoted to sanding down cocks.
I had a woman once who needed very little priming to get the Kegels pumping. Married that lovely lady. Sadly, she was taken young. Had another wife who needed extra sets of batteries for each session with the vibrator. Didn't bother me none. She was still enthusiastic at it, endlessly inventive and fun, too. Just when I was finished, she was still going strong. Since we know by popular acclaim that I am a great lover (not just good, Mick, GRRRRREAT!), she was, by definition, dysfunctional.
Divorced her because she was a *****. Not because of the sex.
If I still sound defensive, sorry.
Royalflush
12-13-07, 02:21
First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for the responses on my question about the crazy Thai girl I dated.
The comment about her being dysfunctional is probably very close to the mark. She actually asked me on several occasions if I thought she was "weird", because she had such a difficult time being satisfied in bed. So, even she admitted to having a problem.
I did manage to get her off on occasion, but frankly it was so much work that I had to wonder if she had become damaged along the way somehow. I have been with enough women to know when something is just not quite right. This experience led me to think that perhaps she had been caught up in the game in Bangkok at some point, but it's possible that it was something else--who knows for sure.
I think maybe this falls into the category of getting what you wish for, and finding it unsatisfying.
I am extremely curious about Thai women, now, and I think I'll have to take a trip over there to do some research.
RF
NicFrenchy
12-13-07, 03:56
But, in a world where there are (in general) two sexes fucking each other and the usual period of intercourse is only a few minutes, a woman who requires three hours to complete is also dysfunctional.Very well put.
I remember once Craig Kilbourne (remember that guy from the Late Show?) did a joke about the female orgasm where he gave a puzzled look and did the air quotes when saying the 'female' part of the phrase. As if it were like saying 'male ovaries'.
I'm afraid that while there is a significant minority of women who are vaginally orgasmic, most are not, or are not so easily - requiring either very lengthy intercourse or more usually, direct clitoral stimulation.
The reasons are these: women's sexuality evolved to trade sex for money (security), so they must enjoy it less than men or they will not reliably trade it. This is a 'strategy' of their genes. But, like all genetic strategies, there is a payoff for those individuals who 'cheat' it. Thus, the twenty percent or so of women who really enjoy sex and orgasm easily from intercourse still recieve the benefits of being able to trade sex for security because most women have established that expectation in men. They get more and better variety of sperms due to their horniness, but benefit financially from their sister's cagey coldness.
If all women were the nymphomaniac vaginally orgasmic type, then the system of sex-for-sale that is human society would break down. If women liked sex as much as men, we'd have social interactions similar to the gay community.
I've been fortunate enough to have a few girlfriends who were the orgasmic type, and quite a few others who were the more normal dull type. I can say that once you have the former, it is very difficult to be satisfied with the latter. I've also found that about the same percentage of prostitutes are orgasmic as 'regular girls' in my experience.
The most curious aspect of all this is the sexist view that the man is responsible for the woman's ability to orgasm during sex. Of course he can have some influence on this, and her feelings of attraction for him have even more, but in practice whether she orgasms or not is a characteristic of her sexuality, not his performance - assuming he can at least have sex basically.
Another way to look at it is this: yes, the nymphos nearly always prefer and seek out the fortunately endowed male, but they are quite capable of orgasm with the ordinary men as well. Conversely, the colder majority gain little or nothing from the prodigious man. Still, they often hold out hopes of changing their nature if they can find 'the right guy', thus laying responsibility at the genitalia of the man, who has little to do with their function.
Some theorize that the frigid woman can be taught to be vaginally orgasmic, but I am skeptical. Most women I know either always had this ability, or never have. I have yet to meet one who had an epiphany at, say, 27.
Lastly, discussion of this issue by males is fraught with opportunities for our competitive natures to be given vent - one may say to ones interlocutor 'oh well, you're just not doing it right, LIKE I CAN.' Let us leave these barbs aside and consider the issue, gentlemen.
Old Thai Hand
12-13-07, 14:05
Opebo
Do you actually believe the absolute shit that comes out of your brain?
I don't believe it. This has got to be a wind up. Otherwise, I truly am concerned about your mental state.
Opebo
Do you actually believe the absolute shit that comes out of your brain?
I don't believe it. This has got to be a wind up. Otherwise, I truly am concerned about your mental state.
OTH
There is considerable food for thought in Opebo's viewpoint. It is just what he thinks - like so many things in life there is no proof either way. Allow the man freedom of expression. Have you any alternative ideas on the matter? If so lets hear them. Your comment is unwarranted
Old Thai Hand
12-14-07, 02:31
The reasons are these: women's sexuality evolved to trade sex for money (security), so they must enjoy it less than men or they will not reliably trade it. This is a 'strategy' of their genes.
Bumholes
If you think this kind of Neanderthal thinking (with appologies to the Neanderthals) is "food for thought", you're as big an idiot as Opebo.
M P Lurker
12-14-07, 02:53
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She was still enthusiastic at it, endlessly inventive and fun, too. Just when I was finished, she was still going strong. Since we know by popular acclaim that I am a great lover (not just good, Mick, GRRRRREAT!), she was, by definition, dysfunctional.
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Well you do come accross as rather "up yourself" and its difficult to understand why you describe her as dysfunctional other than you don't want her anymore.
Obviously your ideal sex lasts for a few minutes.
My ideal sex lasts for at least 30 minutes and possibly even over 1 hour.
I don't like to rush.
I finished with an ex girlfriend because she only wanted to have sex for at most 10 minutes (she could have had 2 orgasms in that time).
That was plenty for her but I was only just getting started.
I wouldn't describe her as dysfunctional, only not suited to me.
(Quote:
Originally Posted by Opebo
The reasons are these: women's sexuality evolved to trade sex for money (security), so they must enjoy it less than men or they will not reliably trade it. This is a 'strategy' of their genes.(/Quote)
Bumholes
If you think this kind of Neanderthal thinking (with appologies to the Neanderthals) is "food for thought", you're as big an idiot as Opebo.
I indicated that Opebo's offering was food for thought. He had more to offer than just your short quoted extract.
Old Thai Hand
12-14-07, 04:18
I indicated that Opebo's offering was food for thought. He had more to offer than just your short quoted extract.
Wrong. It's only worthy of contempt for it's Medieval view of women.
The problem with a board like ISG, with its mandate to objectify and stereotype women is that it allows for very out-moded ways of thinking and for people like Opebo to expound rubbish that, if it were promoted in the public eye and not behind the anonymity of the Internet could get him into serious trouble.
Member #2041
12-14-07, 05:13
OTH, Opebo is what he is. We really don't need you, and your own prejudices in favor of HiSo Thai women to lecture us about Opebo - most of us can figure it all out for ourselves.
Wrong. It's only worthy of contempt for it's Medieval view of women.
Everyone, you, Opebo and I amongst others are entitled to our opinions. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong. If we all shared exactly the same views on everything what a boring world this would be.
Medieval women may well have been preferable to today's women! We will never know. As I said it is just food for thought -nothing else.
Old Thai Hand
12-14-07, 09:18
OTH, Opebo is what he is. We really don't need you, and your own prejudices in favor of HiSo Thai women to lecture us about Opebo - most of us can figure it all out for ourselves.
I don't have prejudices in favor of HiSo Thai women. I've only ever said that I don't like girls in P4P.
I've been fortunate enough to have a few girlfriends who were the orgasmic type, and quite a few others who were the more normal dull type. I can say that once you have the former, it is very difficult to be satisfied with the latter. I've also found that about the same percentage of prostitutes are orgasmic as 'regular girls' in my experience.Evidently this percentage is a minority. How many would you estimate?
In my experience i'd say about 2 out of 20 P4P TGs, or 10%.
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