View Full Version : German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area
Yes, "This world is really ironic. ".
Actually Germany, Austria, and Switzerland have their own mentality and life habit. FKK is actually a typical one. Also, for example, they do not like to own houses / apartments, but to rent, even if they are middle-class. They do not like to show off, to have luxury cars, but to do some plants in their gardens.
In other words, very few countries have this luck as Germany. Imagine in Italy, which is supposed to be an open country, and Sweden, which is also Germanic, prostitution is illegal.
People like FKK, maybe because of its well-organized system and ambiance. These reasons may be more dominating than the girls themselves. Basically, these Romanian girls are not too different from the Romanian girls you could meet in Spain, Italy, Belgium, Denmark, etc.
By the way, I am also a little addictive to this website (forum), as I also consider it as another tripadvisor.
Don't worry, Mr. Ho.
You're not the only crazy East Asian who got German FKK addiction.
I also took a goddamn painful long flight (12 hours in the economy class) from East Asia to Germany just for FKK recently.
This world is really ironic.
The average wages in Germany is 2 times of the average wages in my country.
However, the price of getting kissing+BBBJ+covered sex for 30 minutes in Germany is only 1/2 or 1/3 of the price in my country!
The poorer country in East Asia has a higher price for sex, while the richest country in Europe has a lower price for sex in the whole world!..
Hessen Bub
08-02-14, 09:09
So why aren't there any photos of the girls being taken in the FKK clubs? I mean really. We get reports from other popular mongering destinations located all over the world that include photos. Why not from Germany? I mean nobody is checking us or shaking us down when we enter the clubs. So why not just discretely slip your camera into your robe like we do in Brazil? Then, you can ask the girl if she takes pics or not. If yes, then cool. And if not, then so be it. Come on guys, I think we need to start finding a way to get pics of the FKK tutes to go along with our reports! It's being done all over the globe everywhere else. Why should Germany be immune from the practice?Everything was said. There should be some privacy left for the girls. I find it very strange that you take a picture of somebody (WG or not) and post it on the Internet without the person's written consent. That is illegal. At least in Germany. If you did this without the anonymity of the Internet / ISG people could sue you. Poor WGs in 3rd World countries you are traveling to probably can't or won't.
Also if pictures showed up here and girls find out that would mean the end for those guys who like to take pictures for their private collection. I even think it is not fair to post detailed descriptions of girl's tattoos on a public Sex board. On LSH these descriptions are deleted. Same for pictures some guys feel they have to upload without these pictures being from some official Sex advertising page.
I do have tons of pictures of WG from German clubs, took them myself or of their Facebook. These girls trust me I don't post them on a public board and I won't.
HB.
Everything was said. I do have tons of pictures of WG from German clubs, took them myself or of their Facebook. These girls trust me I don't post them on a public board and I won't.
HB.I accomplished my goal here, which was to get people talking and debating about this in the FKK threads. Specifically what I'm curious about is why there are so many pictures all over the place on this site showing the WGs in other countries, but that you can hardly find any showing the FKK girls in Germany.
In my opinion, clearly it's not because all the guys in this section are somehow more "honorable" than the guys who frequent other parts of the site and would never take advantage of the "poor 3rd world WGs". I'm not buying that. Also, plenty would argue that mongers are already taking gross advantage by using the economic circumstances of the girls to pay for sex!
Further, I've been on this site for years and don't see you (and rarely anybody else) routinely protesting against pictures being posted in the FKK threads (when they show up) or anywhere else on the site. Occasionally somebody will say something about not exposing the face or tattoos or something like that, but that's mostly it. That's because I know that mongers (including the ones in this section) enjoy seeing real pics of real tutes. Immensely!
So given that, I ask again. Why aren't there more pictures of real FKK girls here that were taken by mongers during their trips? Four or so guys responding to my inquiry doesn't add up to "everything being said". Maybe it doesn't fit your moral ethical codes, but given the thousands and thousands of pictures that you can find all over the site, you four or so clearly don't represent everybody here. Yes many you do I would gather, but many, many more not given the evidence.
And by the way, I never said a thing about taking pictures secretly or without somebody's permission. So please don't attribute something like that to me. I didn't say that or even hint at doing anything like that.
Instead of posting your private pictures, why not post links to the best real pictures from the club's web site. Babylon-Elsdorf and Haus Panthera's pictures are pretty good. Samya, not so good. Oase, Living Room, etc, non-existent.
PussyLiccker
08-02-14, 17:29
Yes, we are anonymous here. Yes, there is a picture section here in this forum for, surprise, posting picture. Anybody has gotten sued by ISG for posting picture on the picture section that is provided? Ok, we know HB really cares about the FKK girls now, maybe this is why he attends the FKKs.
UltraHappy
08-02-14, 18:38
Even if you exclude morals, being honorable, and such from the equation, there is a really good non-moral reason not to post these pictures. First, it will be obvious when the girl sees the picture that it was you who took the picture (based on location, her pose, what she might have been wearing or not wearing that day, etc). Once she finds out that you violated her trust and publicly posted a picture of her on a sex site, she will likely black list you and never speak to you again. And, she'll tell all her friends what you did. After that, who knows how many girls will black list you or give you poorer service because they know what an A-hole you are. Plus, you can forget about any other girls letting you take pics or video of them ever again. If you did this, you'd just be setting yourself up for some serious negative blowback.
Maybe you are thinking, yeah but I don't have to worry about that if I know I will never return to this particular club again. But remember that (1) girls move around and (2) if some guys start posting pictures, a few girls will be upset and word will get around to the other girls. Then, all the other girls will seriously think twice when the rest of us guys ask the girls for pics. They'll be all like, "Fuck that -- no way I'm going to let you take my photo or make a nice 'action' movie of us together. I know what you guys do! You all post that shit on the Internet".
Maybe you are thinking if you don't get caught, it'll all be totally cool? Do you guys steal from the barista's tip jar when the barista isn't looking?
Posting links to club pics are totally okay. I can even go along with reposting pics that used to be available publicly on a club web site. I could also go along with posting a girl's pic if she clearly consented to posting it (like if it's just a pic of her boobs or ass or something like that and she doesn't care if you post just that or something).
I don't even understand why we're debating this shit. I mean, it's not like a gray area or something. This is just common sense.
I don't even understand why we're debating this shit. I mean, it's not like a gray area or something. This is just common sense.As PL said, there is a photo gallery in the FKK threads. I'm trying to figure out why it's not used more (and how we might change that). The last post there is more than a year old! This is in contrast to other popular mongering destinations such as Thailand, The Philippines, Brazil, Costa Rica, Dubai, Mexico, etc.
Although your last post supposedly was meant to highlight "non-moral" reasons for not posting pics of the tutes, when you break it all down it's just more of the same in disguise. Now, if you're saying that the guys on this site who frequent the FKKs are more "moral" than the ones who go to other countries to monger (which leads to them refraining from posting pics), then OK.
To that I say OK, but I'm not buying that either! Nobody is holding the moral high ground here. And, as a teacher once pointed out to me, there's no such thing as "common sense". If there was, then everybody would have it! And we would all agree on how to handle any situation right? But, we know that's not how life works. It all may appear to be black and white to you, but that's just you looking through your own set of lenses. Look through somebody else's lenses, and you may see plenty of gray.
There hasn't been a picture post in the FKK photo gallery since May 2013! I want to know why not? Germany is a popular enough mongering destination that we should have more pics of real live working tutes just like you can find in the photo galleries of other popular mongering destinations around the world. I understand all of the moral and ethical points. I get that OK? But the truth is that those points don't hold sway with all of the mongers who enjoy other popular destinations, so why here? Does every monger think about this like Hessen Bub, Ultrahappy, and Mr. Ho do? The answer (based on the evidence of pictures a plenty in other sections) is an unqualified no!
So with that, what's so "special" about the FKK experience that we don't have a more active FKK photo gallery? Can't we find ways to make it more active and useful to the readership? Ways to encourage mongers who want to post pictures to not hold back? There are plenty of picture takers out there who post photos on the site. All over the site. Where are the FKK picture takers and posters? For those of you whose morality would not be troubled, why aren't you posting pics in the FKK photo galley then? I know you're out there. You've got to be. You're everywhere else in the world. You've got to be here too. This is what I'm positing. You've got to be here, and we need to be enjoying your pics!
UltraHappy
08-03-14, 01:19
Sounds like these condoms might be available in a few months:
http://gizmodo.com/a-nanotech-powered-aids-killing-condom-is-closer-than-e-1609124914/all
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2699944/World-HIV-killing-condom-available-buy-months.html
Excerpt:
"a condom coated in antiviral gel that kills up to 99.9% of HIV, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus. Australia just said yes, and hopefully the USA Isn't far behind.
The key component here is VivaGel, an antiviral gel powered by nanotechnology. The gel's active ingredient is millions and millions of nano-sized molecules. These perfectly symmetrical 3 the branching structures glom onto viruses like HIV, HPV, or the virus that causes genital herpes, preventing them from binding to human cells. No binding, no infection".
Hi guys,
After last weekend I went to FKKs for the first time, I also got a little depression as mentioned below. My reasons are:
- I am always thinking of the attractive ambiance and communication in a FKK, not for sex, but for many people hanging out and relaxing.
- As I am not in Germany now, I don't know when I could be there again. In one sense, I am jealous to people who live nearby Frankfurt, but on the other hand, if I live there, maybe I will go every day. It will cost me too much.
- I am a little regretful that I did not remember clearly the girls' names and contact. If I ask, I am sure many of them will tell me and I could at least keep contact with them from time to time.
- One thing I was very lucky is that I did a very good plan thanks to this forum. I went to Manhattan Friday evening, Oase on Saturday, and Sharks on Sunday. This made me get to know these three most important FKKs.
Signs of me being an addict:
- After every trip I've made to FKK / nightclubs / brothels, I just can't be happy with myself if I don't have a new trip to look forward to.
- I don't like to go clubbing in my hometown, unless with a business supplier (that pays the bill) , because I would end up paying so much more on "normal" girls and without being sure if I get laid or not!
- I get a bit depressed when I get back from a trip to a FKK, not because the experience was bad, but that I know I have to wait a long time before next trip (one month at least LOL).
- I try to make my business travels to go where I know there's some sort of FKK / brothels.
- Most importantly I get this feeling that going to FKK / brothels is some sort of a drug habit for me. I just can't get enough!..
Sounds like these condoms might be available in a few months:
http://gizmodo.com/a-nanotech-powered-aids-killing-condom-is-closer-than-e-1609124914/all
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2699944/World-HIV-killing-condom-available-buy-months.html
Excerpt:
"a condom coated in antiviral gel that kills up to 99.9% of HIV, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus. Australia just said yes, and hopefully the USA Isn't far behind.
The key component here is VivaGel, an antiviral gel powered by nanotechnology. The gel's active ingredient is millions and millions of nano-sized molecules. These perfectly symmetrical 3 the branching structures glom onto viruses like HIV, HPV, or the virus that causes genital herpes, preventing them from binding to human cells. No binding, no infection".Even though girls takes shower between the sessions, considering how mayhem like orgy it get in FKK. It is quite amazing there are not any big out break of STD originating from FKK. At least I never heard any big one like HIV or I never caught anything myself.
I know that big club like Artemis (I am most familiar with) has in house Medical doctor and girls can take test when they want and also they have regular STD test every X weeks (I think 2 weeks), and things are pre cautiously in control, but considering fkk situation of big time international orgy. It is amazing how more or less safe fkk has been. Either way condom can protect most STD, the problem is DATY and also BJ without condom and raw fingering. Which I enjoy all of them very much) LOL Temptation against the risk.
I catch a cold now and then in FKK though, but I am not sure if it is from FKK or German cold at morning and night and hot during the day summer weather?
Nille Copenhagen
08-03-14, 10:22
I love German government for allowing to make such a thing as German FKK, what a liberal government.The German government was "clever" by legalize prostitution, they ensured better, safe working condition and rights for the girls.
They can collect taxes from the business that otherwise would be an underground bussiness in most countries.
Both customer and girls have a fair game / playground, the business competition level is high, the market price can stay low, which is good for us, the prices has not followed the inflation for decades.
As I see it win for all. Of cause I'm not naive, there are still black money and trafficking involved sometimes, but it as good as it gets in this business.
I have only posted pictures or links to pictures that were officially available on a public website with Sex ads or from club or apartment homepages. You will not find even one private picture posted from me here on ISG. Call me stupid, but it is a question of trust and "honor", why shouldn't I respect girls who treat me well and who have a right for privacy? .................
Would you like the girls to post your photo on a public webpage related to paysex saying that's the guy with the small dick who smelled like a pig and tried to stick his tongue in my throat? I tired everything but he wouldn't get hard so all I did was giving him a massage although he offered me 100 extra for BBFS. His name is Freddie Mller and he is from a small town just outside New York City, he is married with two kids and is working at a bank in the financial district?
HB.100% agree. I have some pictures but would never dream of posting them as the girls concerned are / were, in the sense that we shared personal information, friends. FKKs tend to engender a degree of respect between customers and workers (no, I am not naive) so posting pictures is rare.
"HB really cares about the FKK girls now" - well it would be a better world if more people cared about strangers they meet.
Solo Traveler
08-03-14, 16:42
Both customer and girls have a fair game / playground, the business competition level is high, the market price can stay low, which is good for us, the prices has not followed the inflation for decades.I really hope the price structure in FKK clubs and the cost of living around Frankfurt / Main can stay like what they are right now forever.
65€ for FKK club entrance fee.
50€ for kissing+BBBJ+covered sex+DATY for 30 minutes.
Around 40€ for a no-frills hotel room per night.
Around 6€ for a combo meal in McDonald's.
(I am taking Sharks and the cost of living in Darmstadt as an example).
I really want to set up all my future vacations in the FKK clubs in Germany for the next 10 years.
I am serious. I just set up a new bank account for my future FKK vacation funds.
To regular mongers who live in Germany or nearby European countrie, please help maintain the price structure in FKK clubs!
And to those mongers who are also of East Asian descent or from East Aisa.
Please, do not act like a rich and stupid tourist in the FKK club!
Do not get ripped-off so easily! Do not pay extra 50€ for kissing for god's sake!
Do not take up-sells so easily unless you really want to! Do not accept paying 100€-150€ to a girl you never met before going into the room!
Of course, you can extend the session to 1 hour or repeat her again later, but this should be done after you have a standard 50€ session with her to see whether she is good or not at the first place.
Either way condom can protect most STD, the problem is DATY and also BJ without condom and raw fingering. Which I enjoy all of them very much) LOL Temptation against the risk.
I catch a cold now and then in FKK though, but I am not sure if it is from FKK or German cold at morning and night and hot during the day summer weather?Yes, vaginal penetration with condom can protect both sides from getting STD.
The risk of getting STD from DATY and BBBJ is so low that no one gives a damn about it.
The local German mongers have been visiting FKK clubs like this for decades as a daily / weekly hobby.
They all seem to be fine and healthy.
If they do not worry about it, why should we foreigners worry so much?
The weather in Germany is very complicated, even if it is summer time right now.
It can be 30 Celsius when it is sunny, but also can be 10 Celsius when it is rainy and windy.
Always bring a jacket and an umbrella with you to deal with the weather.
The German government was "clever" by legalize prostitution, they ensured better, safe working condition and rights for the girls.
They can collect taxes from the business that otherwise would be an underground bussiness in most countries.
Both customer and girls have a fair game / playground, the business competition level is high, the market price can stay low, which is good for us, the prices has not followed the inflation for decades.
As I see it win for all. Of cause I'm not naive, there are still black money and trafficking involved sometimes, but it as good as it gets in this business.100% agree, but German government is one of very few government who think like this as you wrote.
Most G7 nations debate about this and many men thinks like this in rational way, but it always declined due to too many anti organizations etc. Therefore, I just thought German government as well as public are very liberal. Plus I love German girls, they are so dirty in the room, I must say they are among the most liberal in western EU, it may have different image due to 2nd world war image perhaps, but personally I find Germans very liberal people in general. And my best performers in rooms always have been German girls.
German FKK are the reason why I go to Germany and it definitely seemed to have affect on their male tourism population. Because of German FKK, I cannot marry. I mean it will be stupid of me to give up intense German FKK-ing of straight 12 days!
KombatWombat
08-04-14, 06:40
Keen on hitting the FKKs when I visit Germany. I saw a ranking of well known clubs on the FKK tours site and was wanting to know how accurate that ranking is.
Hessen Bub
08-04-14, 08:29
But the truth is that those points don't hold sway with all of the mongers who enjoy other popular destinations, so why here? Does every monger think about this like Hessen Bub, Ultrahappy, and Mr. Ho do?
So with that, what's so "special" about the FKK experience that we don't have a more active FKK photo gallery? Why are you trying to push users to post pictures the have taken or obtained from girls under the agreement that these pictures stay between them, stay private? It won't happen. If you still want to take pictures in the future. Don't play with the girl's trust, they know about the boards, some stupid idiot will print out reports and photos and they will find out.
ironic Mode on
The reason for no private pics here: FKK club visitors are more intelligent. Caring. Honourable. Moral. They not only do it better. They ARE better.
ironic Mode off
HB.
ironic Mode on
The reason for no private pics here: FKK club visitors are more intelligent. Caring. Honourable. Moral. They not only do it better. They ARE better.
ironic Mode off
HB.Yeah right Bub. Whatever you say! More like the "bullrometer" going off and on LOL!
And here's some more irony for you Bub. I'm one of those FKK visitors too! And have you seen me post any personal pictures of FKK girls? The answer is no! Because I decided to fall in line and respect the posting culture of the FKK section! But, I do wish that we had more pictures here of the FKK girls. And, I do post pics in other sections where the mongers there do it too, and I absolutely enjoy girls all over the world (repeating with my favorites) with virtually no problems or drama. Definitely never any involving pics. I'm an FKK club visitor and I visit many other types of establishments too in different places. So, since I am an FKK club visitor too who has never posted any personal pics of FKK girls here (even though I would really like to), I will accept my piece of that "high moral honor". Thanks for the compliment LOL!
TC The Honorable.
In Thailand the girls don't mind posing for photo's, but in most cases they prefer to be dressed. In the clubs the girls are either fulling naked or close to it, there's the rub. Has nothing to do with respect of the girls, has much to do with the girls telling you to fukc off. And those that do get photo's or video's of the girls, the girl is more likely a regular and will remember who took those pics. Also Thailand is more of a third world country where the photo has a smaller chance of being seen by friends and family.
In Thailand the girls don't mind posing for photo's, but in most cases they prefer to be dressed. In the clubs the girls are either fulling naked or close to it, there's the rub. Has nothing to do with respect of the girls, has much to do with the girls telling you to fukc off. And those that do get photo's or video's of the girls, the girl is more likely a regular and will remember who took those pics. Also Thailand is more of a third world country where the photo has a smaller chance of being seen by friends and family.I think it is existence of Internet made this whole photo things more harder because photos could be easily leaked to the whole world, so someone who knows a girl personally could easily get to see the pictures (especially male friends as we male all check out some level of erotic photos / videos).
Most importantly, I think what ever happens in German FKK stays in German FKK, I believe this is my mutual understanding as pro monger and I know some of girls real name and I see them on facebook. And it is not that hard to figure out she has her family members on facebook (same family name, same town, matches her story about her family etc), but we all have to know that all girls are not doing this because they are simply working girl, most of them are put into situation where they kind of have to choose this job, but German FKK legally protect them and enable them to have more comfortable working conditions, so I think we should all return the favor to the girls who treat us well with photos or her personal informations, real names etc by respecting what she does not want us to do. This is my personal opinion. I never really met one girl in german FKK that is rather evil, some are sharks, but never in evil manner, they just want the money but it does not mean we can do what we want.
Hessen Bub
08-04-14, 22:13
Yeah right Bub. Whatever you say! More like the "bullrometer" going off and on LOL!If you want to misread my post. You're welcome. I marked it as ironic and that's how I meant it.
HB.
Trans Atlantic
08-05-14, 01:55
Sounds like these condoms might be available in a few months:
http://gizmodo.com/a-nanotech-powered-aids-killing-condom-is-closer-than-e-1609124914/all
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2699944/World-HIV-killing-condom-available-buy-months.html
Excerpt:
"a condom coated in antiviral gel that kills up to 99.9% of HIV, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus. Australia just said yes, and hopefully the USA Isn't far behind.
The key component here is VivaGel, an antiviral gel powered by nanotechnology. The gel's active ingredient is millions and millions of nano-sized molecules. These perfectly symmetrical 3 the branching structures glom onto viruses like HIV, HPV, or the virus that causes genital herpes, preventing them from binding to human cells. No binding, no infection".Seems like a waste of time & money to me for the incremental increase in effectiveness.
Hi guys,
I wanted to ask you and know generally from everyone here, when you guys go for an extended lets say 1 hour or One and Half Hours or two Hours just in case (This is for people who cum) once you have cum after your first round and you are still inside the room waiting for the second session to start what do you guys do in between times with the girl? Just chat with her? Cuddle here by making her sit in your lap? Or just sleep? What exactly? Can anyone Share his experiences? I am very curious to know what do most guys do between time in between sessions?
Hi guys,
I wanted to ask you and know generally from everyone here, when you guys go for an extended lets say 1 hour or One and Half Hours or two Hours just in case (This is for people who cum) once you have cum after your first round and you are still inside the room waiting for the second session to start what do you guys do in between times with the girl? Just chat with her? Cuddle here by making her sit in your lap? Or just sleep? What exactly? Can anyone Share his experiences? I am very curious to know what do most guys do between time in between sessions? Be yourself and do what comes naturally to you. What I do varies enormously. It can be nonstop physical activity or non stop talk: it all depends on how the girls and I spark of together. If I ever find myself wondering what to do I take that as a signal that it's time to end. With some girls 30 minutes is too long, with others 5 hours seems like 5 minutes. I never sleep. The girls will be a mine of information if you are interested in what men do :)
Banana Boi
08-06-14, 22:38
Be yourself and do what comes naturally to you. What I do varies enormously. It can be nonstop physical activity or non stop talk: it all depends on how the girls and I spark of together. If I ever find myself wondering what to do I take that as a signal that it's time to end. With some girls 30 minutes is too long, with others 5 hours seems like 5 minutes. I never sleep. Well said, from an old pro.
UltraHappy
08-07-14, 00:10
Hi guys,
I wanted to ask you and know generally from everyone here, when you guys go for an extended lets say 1 hour or One and Half Hours or two Hours just in case (This is for people who cum) once you have cum after your first round and you are still inside the room waiting for the second session to start what do you guys do in between times with the girl? Just chat with her? Cuddle here by making her sit in your lap? Or just sleep? What exactly? Can anyone Share his experiences? I am very curious to know what do most guys do between time in between sessions?Sometimes more blowjobs, sometimes more sex, sometimes talk, sometimes joke, sometimes cuddle, sometimes just kissing, sometimes looking at photos together. Many times we just cuddle while she gently strokes my little guy, waiting for me to get more stamina for more fun activities together.
Basically exactly what Optimist said below.
Hello all!
I am planning a trip to Germany, most for Oktoberfest, but to see the rest of the country too. Been doing my research, and it seems that the highest concentration of FKKs by far is in the Dusseldorf area, which I won't be visiting. So I needed some recommendations for other places. Researching is a little difficult since I am not familiar with the names of the cities / towns and where they are, but I have tried.
I will be going to Berlin (Artemis), Stuttgart (Paradise), Munich (Sunshine), Fussen, Berchtesgaden, Salzburg, and Nuremberg. I will have a car for part of the trip, but wasn't planning to venture north into the Frankfurt area clubs. Mostly staying south, until flying out of Berlin.
Any recommendations for other clubs? Also, any options besides FKKs? I generally like the FKK setting better than pick up bars, but that entry fee can sometimes be a steep gamble if the place doesn't have a rock solid reputation. You are basically paying just to see the girls. Also, why are all the clubs in Dusseldorf? Are they better in quality up there? Or are there just more of them?
Thanks in advance!
Wolvenvacht
08-07-14, 19:12
Also Thailand is more of a third world country where the photo has a smaller chance of being seen by friends and family.You'd be surprised! It seems almost everyone in Thailand (or South East Asia as a whole for that matter) has the latest model of smartphone and it is always on and they all have 100's of friends on all the social sites.
SwingerLover
08-07-14, 19:23
You are basically paying just to see the girls. You should consider paying a visit to some Partytreffs / Pauschalclubs as well. You will most likely have to make some concessions about looks of the women, but you will get to fuck between 4-12 girls for a flatrate price of 60-150 €, softdrinks & snacks included. Read up in the Germany Partytreff Clubs forum and enjoy.
You should consider paying a visit to some Partytreffs / Pauschalclubs as well. You will most likely have to make some concessions about looks of the women, but you will get to fuck between 4-12 girls for a flatrate price of 60-150 , softdrinks & snacks included. Read up in the Germany Partytreff Clubs forum and enjoy.Wow, thanks for the link! That's like a hidden part of the forum that surprises you when you open it!
Any particular partytreffs that you recommend?
Wow, thanks for the link! That's like a hidden part of the forum that surprises you when you open it! Any particular partytreffs that you recommend?When someone replies "You will most likely have to make some concessions about looks of the women", a reponse like yours just cracks me up. Your reply makes you sound really chipper to be heading out to this new found partytreffland. LOL. Your posts suggest you might have visited the Philippines, I just got back from Thailand and I'm assuming the talent and price are equivalent. That being said, I suggest you check out the photo gallery in the partytreff section before you decide to go slumming it in Partytreffland.
SwingerLover
08-07-14, 23:50
When someone replies "You will most likely have to make some concessions about looks of the women", a reponse like yours just cracks me up.I don't do Saunaclubs, so I don't know first hand how the women compare to the ones in the Partytreffs. With the price difference, I reckon that they must look much better. If you have a real looker at a Partytreff like let's say Steffi, currently at Fun Park in Viersen, then you can almost be sure that the service is lousy.
But if I hear stories from guys who switched from Saunaclubs to Partytreffs because half hours become 23 minutes in order to get a surcharge out of the guys, then I rather party with the not so very beautiful girls at the flatrate venues (in my case the bareback ones). Usually a lot of them are still quite attractive, but have one thing or another about them that disqualifies them from working as FKK-club-beauties. Like maybe some ugly scars, mostly from a cesarean, some missing teeth or tiny tits, combined with some avarage next-door-girl looks. It's up to everybody's taste who he likes to party with.
Any particular partytreffs that you recommend?Since I only do bareback parties, I don't know if I should recommend those places to you. I have written about them in the AO threads anyway, so you can look them up yourself.
Aside from that I read or hear good reports about Xantener Partytreff (has it's own ISG-thread) and Erotiktreff 95 in Schwerte, as well as Treff188 in Eschborn near Frankfurt. Erlebniswohnung in Berlin gets a lot of good reports too here on ISG. But I think it would be appropriate to continue further talk about Partytreffs in the Partytreff forum and not here in the FKK clubs Lounge and chat area.
But if I hear stories from guys who switched from Saunaclubs to Partytreffs because half hours become 23 minutes in order to get a surcharge out of the guys, then I rather party with the not so very beautiful girls at the flatrate venues (in my case the bareback ones)..But then there's the opposite side of the coin, the guys who went from Partytreffs to Sauna and Fkk clubs because the service and the looks were so mediocre (I'm in this group). Right now your reading gripes from guys about the saunaclubs lacking talent and since shit runs downhill you really can't expect the cream of the crop anymore in the partytreff scene. I was one of the first posters to review PT Dorsten almost 8 years ago (or so), that place was spectacular the first 3 visits I did in one week (it was so good we kept on going back). The next year it was noticeably worse and every year a bit farther down the scale. Same went for PT Wagenfeld. The turning point is when the best lookers become the bartenders and are no longer in play. Also did several of those clubs where you pay one fee for how many hours you stay and after you break down the time in the room, the quality of the girls and the extra's that the club offers the move to sauna clubs was the only way to go.
I could do 2 girls at Aca for the price of a partytreff and get the same amount of service as I would in a lower level partytreff but with better quality talent. But that's not saying I wouldn't love to try to break my 13 room visits at the old PT Dorsten (I do still check the website), but I just got over having an overweight girl grabbing my balls while I'm trying to do a slimmer girl and the chubby one saying "cum baby cum, cumshot"...or having 4 guys fucking girls right next to you on the same bed (yes, the same bed). If you live in Germany and don't have far to travel and want to check out the low budget scene, that's the way to go. But if your paying a grand in airfare and have limited amount of travel time AND want a budget screw, go to Thailand where you'll get higher quality for the same airfare.
But then there's the opposite side of the coin, the guys who went from Partytreffs to Sauna and Fkk clubs because the service and the looks were so mediocre (I'm in this group). If you live in Germany and don't have far to travel and want to check out the low budget scene, that's the way to go. But if your paying a grand in airfare and have limited amount of travel time AND want a budget screw, go to Thailand where you'll get higher quality for the same airfare.Well, I am going to Germany anyway. I was just looking for a little guidance since there seem to be SO many FKKs, several in each town, except for Munich it seems. I like FKKs. I just think that they are a little pricey with multiple visits. I was pleasantly surprised by Partytreffs simply because it was something I had never heard of, and BAM! There is this whole hidden forum.
But yes, with limited travel time, I will probably just take the tourist way out with the FKKs. That being said, are there Laufhauses in Germany, like in Vienna?
You should consider paying a visit to some Partytreffs / Pauschalclubs as well. You will most likely have to make some concessions about looks of the women, but you will get to fuck between 4-12 girls for a flatrate price of 60-150 , softdrinks & snacks included. Read up in the Germany Partytreff Clubs forum and enjoy.Aren't there any Partytreffs / Pauschalclubs that are like 300 EURO up, but the quality of the girls are at top level with bareback options?
Other than that, someone who care the most about looks of the girls. If there is partyteffs with good looks, I will definitely give a shot at such a good partytreffs.
Hessen Bub
08-08-14, 08:12
. That being said, are there Laufhauses in Germany, like in Vienna?Yes. In a lot of major cities like Frankfurt, Munich, Hannover, Cologne, Hamburg etc. Look into the Germany section of the board.
HB.
BlueBallBob
08-08-14, 09:33
Tried searching but couldn't find answers.
First timer FKKer here, so need to know if:
1. Bring my own condoms or does the club provide?
2. Oils and lube need to bring, or available at the club?
3. Any double penetration or that off limits?
Thanks, hitting Frankfurt for the first time Saturday night through Tuesday.
Super excited to try Oases, Sharks and Manhattan.
SwingerLover
08-08-14, 09:58
But then there's the opposite side of the coin, the guys who went from Partytreffs to Sauna and Fkk clubs because the service and the looks were so mediocre
If you live in Germany and don't have far to travel and want to check out the low budget scene, that's the way to go. Yes, all true as well. The only reason why I even responded here is that I correctly assumed that Manny51 had overlooked the PT forum, since it's not listed in every directory.
That being said, are there Laufhauses in Germany, like in Vienna?Plenty. There are several streets in Frankfurt near the main train station and around Kaiserstraße which contain several Laufhauses. I think you will find those in every big city. Use Sexdo to search: http://sexdo.de/.
Banana Boi
08-08-14, 22:06
That being said, are there Laufhauses in Germany, like in Vienna?Have you been to the Red Rooms Laufhaus in Vienna? If so, how was it?
In Germany you can find Pascha Laufhaus in Koln. 7 floors. If you strike out there go to FKK Samya or Club Mondial nearby.
Citizen Kane
08-08-14, 22:30
Article about possible increase in minimum age of prostitutes in Germany from 18 to 21, amongst other things.
http://www.thelocal.de/20140808/calls-grow-for-21-age-limit-for-legal-prostitutes
KombatWombat
08-08-14, 23:36
Don't suppose there is one FKK sauna club in particular that features more natural looking girls rather than the more mature fake tattooed women who put me off? I am talking girls who are 18-25 years old.
UltraHappy
08-09-14, 00:17
Tried searching but couldn't find answers.
First timer FKKer here, so need to know if:
1. Bring my own condoms or does the club provide?
2. Oils and lube need to bring, or available at the club?
3. Any double penetration or that off limits?
Thanks, hitting Frankfurt for the first time Saturday night through Tuesday.
Super excited to try Oases, Sharks and Manhattan.Condoms: Each girl carries condoms. Most guys use the house-provided condoms. If you have a favorite (normal) brand, feel free to bring it.
Oils & Lubes: No need to bring oils or lube. The girls all carry this except on the rare occasion a girl just ran out. Very, very few guys carry lube with them.
Double Penetration: Your dick is only capable of entering one hole at a time. You can't simultaneously put your dick in two different holes at the same time. This physical limitation is due to each male having only one dick. Unless your anatomy greatly differs from the rest of us, you will likely be subject to this same physical limitation.
P.S. Regarding your first post, it won't take you all that long to get to the central bahnhof where your hotel is located, just under a half hour if you are taking the train -- this is counting only the time actually on the train, not including the time to get your bags from baggage claim, etc.
Article about possible increase in minimum age of prostitutes in Germany from 18 to 21, amongst other things.
http://www.thelocal.de/20140808/calls-grow-for-21-age-limit-for-legal-prostitutesThis is real bad news. Well I never really find 18 years old in FKK anyways. When girls tells you she is 19 or 20, that means she is like 24.
Where are real 18 years old.
BlueBallBob
08-09-14, 10:26
Condoms: Each girl carries condoms. Most guys use the house-provided condoms. If you have a favorite (normal) brand, feel free to bring it.
Oils & Lubes: No need to bring oils or lube. The girls all carry this except on the rare occasion a girl just ran out. Very, very few guys carry lube with them.
Double Penetration: Your dick is only capable of entering one hole at a time. You can't simultaneously put your dick in two different holes at the same time. This physical limitation is due to each male having only one dick. Unless your anatomy greatly differs from the rest of us, you will likely be subject to this same physical limitation.
P.S. Regarding your first post, it won't take you all that long to get to the central bahnhof where your hotel is located, just under a half hour if you are taking the train -- this is counting only the time actually on the train, not including the time to get your bags from baggage claim, etc.Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure and did want to get there and find out that I needed to bring something. Was going with a friend but his plans changed so going to have to hit it solo.
Hope the evening customs lines are shorter than when I passed through a couple weeks ago. Tour groups in the lines suck. Makes it take so damn long.
Hessen Bub
08-09-14, 15:33
There are quite a few girls working in the range of 18 to 21. As I am getting older I find it more and more a good idea to raise the legal age for prostitution to 21 years. Too many young girls are being taken advantage of, to chose words rather cautiously. These are girls, they just finished school, they have no experience in life and get sent to work in an environment they don't know.
HB.
where are real 18 years old.in mexico lol! bub had his fun, but now that he's getting older everybody else should be denied the delights of the 18 year-olds? strikes me as rather selfish. the age of full consent must remain at 18. we need to stop these incursions from the feminist "moralists" seeking to put a damper on what consenting men and women choose to do between themselves.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2658-tropical-bar-reports
age of consent vs age of majority
=============================================
greetings gentlemen,
the age of consent is the age in which girls can participate in consensual, non-commercial sex with their teen-age boyfriend without said teen-age boyfriend being charged with statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123).
however, the age of consent is irrelevant to the members of this forum.
what you need to focus on is the age of majority, which among other things is the age in which they can vote, get married, enlist in the military, and participate in commercial sex activities.
please exercise caution and govern yourself accordingly.
thanks,
jackson
Yes, all true as well. The only reason why I even responded here is that I correctly assumed that Manny51 had overlooked the PT forum, since it's not listed in every directory.
Plenty. There are several streets in Frankfurt near the main train station and around Kaiserstrae which contain several Laufhauses. I think you will find those in every big city. Use Sexdo to search: http://sexdo.de/.Wow, there are so many options! I didn't realize that Germany was such a sex scene. I knew about FKKs, which I think get the most press amongst the punting community. But there is so much going on! Makes it quite a task (but a fun one) to figure it all out.
Thanks for the input guys.
Two more comments / questions.
1. Are STD checks more consistently regulated in the Laufhaus crowd? Or is it all the same?
2. And as a comment to the age thing, I agree with HessenBubs view. Sure we all love sex, but lets not completely check our conscience at the door. Its not bad if the girls are 18-21, but it would be better for all if they were over 21.
"I didn't realize that Germany was such a sex scene. "
-- Yes. I think it is out of the imagination of many people that Germany has a lot of erotic things, much more than France, Spain and Italy, which are well know to be "romantic".
For your questions:
1. Frankly speaking, I don't think so. I have asked a couple of girls in FKKs whether it is obligatory to check. Some of them said yes and some said no. I guess not. I know in Athens Greece, the salons take this kind of check.
2. I agree that 21 is better. Actually I prefer girls knowing a little more knowledge of life, not too young.
Wow, there are so many options! I didn't realize that Germany was such a sex scene. I knew about FKKs, which I think get the most press amongst the punting community. But there is so much going on! Makes it quite a task (but a fun one) to figure it all out.
Thanks for the input guys.
Two more comments / questions.
1. Are STD checks more consistently regulated in the Laufhaus crowd? Or is it all the same?
2. And as a comment to the age thing, I agree with HessenBubs view. Sure we all love sex, but lets not completely check our conscience at the door. Its not bad if the girls are 18-21, but it would be better for all if they were over 21.
UltraHappy
08-09-14, 19:29
And as a comment to the age thing, I agree with HessenBubs view. Sure we all love sex, but lets not completely check our conscience at the door. Its not bad if the girls are 18-21, but it would be better for all if they were over 21.I've met a number of a number of 18,19, and 20 year olds that I had some really great times with. It would be a shame if the age limit were changed.
Let's also consider that raising the age limit could actually do quite a bit of harm to the girls as well. The whole justification for legalizing prostitution in the first place was mainly to provide legitimacy, healthier working conditions, allow girls to take advantage of police and legal help when encountering certain work troubles, and allow taxing so that allowing the tax money to in turn help the community. If the age limit were raised, that could force many of the 18-21 year olds into illegal prostitution which might put them in a worse position than if they were allowed to work legally.
Also, we must consider that when we tell a 20 year old that she can't do this job, we are denying her opportunities. Opportunities to help her family, help her kid, pay for her schooling, etc. If the alternative is to starve to death, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to deny these opportunities on a blanket basis like this?
Driving cars can be dangerous and there are plenty of secondary negative effects associated with driving cars (pollution, deaths due to car wrecks). In the car situation, we don't outlaw cars entirely, but instead we regulate them and institute all kinds of safety rules.
I'm not saying that either side of the debate is right or wrong. It's definitely a complex issue with many legitimate and valid points to be made on BOTH sides of the debate.
I just wanted to share a few thoughts on one side of the debate, acknowledging that I am probably fairly biased due to the benefits I enjoy by the lower age limit.
UltraHappy
08-09-14, 19:31
1. Are STD checks more consistently regulated in the Laufhaus crowd? Or is it all the same?
There are no mandatory STD checks in Germany, in Laufhaus or otherwise. You will have to go to Austria if you want this.
Wolvenvacht
08-09-14, 19:50
Wow, thanks for the link! That's like a hidden part of the forum that surprises you when you open it!
Any particular partytreffs that you recommend?I have visited over the years Partytreff Xanten a number of times and always had a good time there.
Of course, as everywhere, YMMV! Much also depends on the actual line-up. Some days you'll find several girls to your liking, on other days the line-up might be "poorer" for you (but perhaps better for someone else). In general that also applies to saunaclubs. Once I visited FKK Babylon. They had one black girl there, which I took to the room three times. None of the other girls appealed to me. Yet I'm sure many other visitors found the East European available girls really good as they were in great demand.
In Mexico LOL! Bub had his fun, but now that he's getting older everybody else should be denied the delights of the 18 year-olds? Strikes me as rather selfish. The age of full consent must remain at 18. We need to stop these incursions from the feminist "moralists" seeking to put a damper on what consenting men and women choose to do between themselves.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2658-Tropical-Bar-Reports[Deleted by Admin]
Well I think German FKK is good as it already is, only improvement I ask is insane up sell and set fixed menu as club promised on girls. As that is what they agree to work for (DFK etc.), I occasionally meet some girls who just do not DFK and that really get on my nerve. But I must admit, recent FKK becoming more up sell frequent place, but more hardcore sessions is available by adding extra euros.
Even without extra euro. Sometimes it really scare a bit and amuse me very much to sometimes meet girls who can take and seems to me want to have such a strong anal sex. I mean sometimes I begin to scare that if I do harder. Her anal will be ripped. It is amazing what women's body can do. Got to learn from woodman. But FKK has real talent sometimes.
EDITOR's NOTE: This report was deleted in accordance with the Forum's Zero Tolerance policy prohibiting reports containing any references to any persons under the age of 18. This restriction includes references in the form of code words like "very young" and "young girls". Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.
There are no mandatory STD checks in Germany, in Laufhaus or otherwise. You will have to go to Austria if you want this.That's news to me. I seem to remember hearing that health checks were legally required in Germany, but unevenly enforced.
That's news to me. I seem to remember hearing that health checks were legally required in Germany, but unevenly enforced.Some major FKK has in house MD and girls are regularly checked by house rule and girls can talk to in house MD if she has any physical problem whether it is STD or just a flu.
Some FKK allows girls to be sick for two days and she can stay in bed at FKK to rest, if she does not get better she has to go home to get better to avoid flu spreading and also to keep empty bed for the girls who want to come in to work.
I never heard or had any STD issue in German FKK. Have you guys heard or had any?
I think is very clean for that area.
Hessen Bub
08-10-14, 10:28
That's news to me. I seem to remember hearing that health checks were legally required in Germany, but unevenly enforced.Some clubs, apartments or Laufhäuser may require the girls to take a health check before they start at that place and then on a regular base. But there are NO legal requirements for health checks in Germany.
HB.
SwingerLover
08-10-14, 17:18
If the age limit were raised, that could force many of the 18-21 year olds into illegal prostitution which might put them in a worse position than if they were allowed to work legally.
Also, we must consider that when we tell a 20 year old that she can't do this job, we are denying her opportunities. Opportunities to help her family, help her kid, pay for her schooling, etc. If the alternative is to starve to death, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to deny these opportunities on a blanket basis like this?I totally agree with your entire report. I guess with the "starve to death", you are referring to ROMs and BULGs? Too bad that German feministresses (Is there any such thing like a male feminist?) don't give a shit about that. They rather "protect" them from the evil, evil mongers, regardless of what they should do for a living instead. I know one 22-year-old Bulgarian who doesn't even read or write her own mother tongue properly, much less the German language. So what else is she supposed to do for a living, other than spread her legs? We have enough toilet-cleaning-women in Germany already.
What you need to focus on is the Age of Majority, which among other things is the age in which they can vote, get married, enlist in the military, and participate in commercial sex activities. Which may differ from country to country. The legal age in Germany for voting is 18, for getting married (and have non-commercial sex with anybody of same or older age) is 16 and for paysex it's 18, which makes anything about people under the age of 18 irrelevant for the purpose of this forum.
These are girls, they just finished school, they have no experience in life and get sent to work in an environment they don't know.This could be said about any girl in almost any line of work.
Aren't there any Partytreffs / Pauschalclubs that are like 300 EURO up, but the quality of the girls are at top level with bareback options?No. Pauschalclubs with those kind of prices would not attract enough customers to survive for more than a couple of months. Guys who are willing to spend that amount of money usually do it in an FKK- or Saunaclub or a huge brothel like Pascha in Cologne.
If you are into gangbang, you might find that "girls are at top level with bareback options" at some of the flatrate venues from my AO-maps, and for less than half that kind of money. Of course you will be together with anywhere from 4 to 80 guys at such an event.
3. Any double penetration or that off limits?Despite UltraHappy's very funny reply, I'm trying to take this question seriously. But first I would require a definition of what YOU understand as "double penetration". I think you're talking about a "Sandwich", meaning one dick in the pussy and one in the ass at the same time. (Or a double-vaginal, with 2 dicks in the same pussy at the same time?) Well, for both you will first need another guy who plays along. But I don't think there will be any problem finding a girl at a P4 P place, provided she does anal at all. Some might take a sur-charge.
Article about possible increase in minimum age of prostitutes in Germany from 18 to 21, amongst other things.That's the same bullshit idea, sprung from feministresses' minds, that wants to ban flatrate sex altogether. I'm still confident that it will never happen!
There is a law in Germany (AGG) which disallows discrimination by age and sex when it comes to work contracts. So raising the minimum age for prositutes would be in direct violation of the AGG. (If anything the age limit would have to be lowered to 16, since 16-year-olds are allowed to work in almost every other job as well. And for the record: I personally think that 18 is young enough to work as a pro! But I still would, in accordance with the AGG, defend the right of a 16-year-old to work as a prostitute if she wants to, as long as she can also get exploited by working at a super-market at that same age in accordance to the laws.).
As for those who work as "freelancers": 18-year-olds are allowed to run a business, so why shouldn't they be allowed to work as self-employed prostitutes? Raising the age limit to 21 is discriminatory, and such a law would be invalidated by the first law suit an 18-year-old prostitute would file against it.
Some major FKK has in house MD and girls are regularly checked by house rule and girls can talk to in house MD if she has any physical problem whether it is STD or just a flu.
Some FKK allows girls to be sick for two days and she can stay in bed at FKK to rest, if she does not get better she has to go home to get better to avoid flu spreading and also to keep empty bed for the girls who want to come in to work.
I never heard or had any STD issue in German FKK. Have you guys heard or had any?
I think is very clean for that area.Actually, before I visited Germany for the first time 2 years ago, I posed this question about STDs. When I asked a few people how FKKs rated as to STDs, on a scale from very low to very high risk, the few people that answered said it was in the riskier half of the spectrum. Lots of barebackers. Lots of multiple multple repeat regulars.
But respect to all. I don't want to start a flame war. Its a controversial topic. I have never had an extended trip to Germany, so I don't know most of the facts. It came up because I suddenly become aware of new, distinct venues (Partytreffs and Laufhauses) and was curious.
But respect to all. I don't want to start a flame war. Its a controversial topic. Not controversial at all, if you notice its always the rookies asking or bringing it up, not the veterans with hundreds of club visits under their belts. Knock on wood but I've never caught anything but there's always that risk when you pay to play.
Hypocrisy and bigotry can make much more damages than what they think or pretend to avoid. Anyone should be free to do whatever they like or need with their lives and their bodies, as long as they don't harm others, without interferences from people who have plenty of time and decent or wealthy lives.
I don't think to be wrong by "supposing" that out of german legalized clubs, the rest of the world, for instance the south east of Asia, sees under 18 girls working in streets, private flats, probably even in clubs, maybe with false documents. I would be scared to go mongering in countries like Vietnam, knowing that even a 30+ can look much younger, therefore I wouldn't know if I risk, among the rest, also possible traps.
Watch the bullshit of an european ex-prime minister with a supposed 17 year old girl. Did you see her pics? Her body? Her behaviour in a discoclub where she was working? Does she look like a poor victim? Or like a needy innocent child needing protection by social assistants? Can it be said she has been abused, if anything happened? Isn't that ridiculous?
How many girls 18- with great bodies, looking much older, can you see anywhere? And how many 18+ looking much younger, for instance when you go to a casino? Nature is nature!
How many times fellow punters have come across girls wondering their age? And if they asked they were answered 18? And maybe they were even showed papers which could be fake. Was their real worry about "hurting" them? Or more about stupid laws?
More than once in FKKs I have been told by a girl or her colleagues that she had started working much before being 18, probably in her own country. Some of them got pregnant very early in their lives, unfortunately nature, sperm, ovaries follow their own rules without bothering one month or one year more or less, so, who would feed the child?
I'm not saying that it is a good or correct thing, just that it is unavoidable.
What if a girl finishes her college and wants to go to university but doesn't have the money? She will have to wait to be 21?
Come on, life can be hard, live and let live should be the law.
As to defining "healthier conditions" the fact of working in a legalized club, with or without supposed tests, I find it ridiculous: AO clubs are legal, and I can't imagine anything less safe. I may agree about "healthier" if ANYTHING was done with condom and gloves, and without kissing nor DATYing, like many black girls working in the streets do (and even in this case there is a risk), otherwise that word is quiet out of place.
Just my opinion.
Hessen Bub
08-10-14, 22:08
This could be said about any girl in almost any line of work.
That's the same bullshit idea, sprung from feministresses' minds, that wants to ban flatrate sex altogether. I'm still confident that it will never happen!
There is a law in Germany (AGG) which disallows discrimination by age and sex when it comes to work contracts. So raising the minimum age for prostitutes would be in direct violation of the AGG. 1. This could be said about any line of work, true. But in other lines of work there's less trafficking and a regulated work environment.
2. I wouldn't mind to have Flatrate sex banned. Especially when I think about what happened at the Pussy Club locations and the details that showed up at the trial.
3. AGG: Prostitutes in Germany are self employed so the AGG doesn't apply. Why would it be a violation to the AGG to raise the minimum age for prostitution to 21?
HB
PS: Minimum age for a train driver in Germany is 21. No issue with the AGG.
SwingerLover
08-10-14, 22:54
2. I wouldn't mind to have Flatrate sex banned.I would! Why is it that regarding sex, flatrate should be banned, when all-you-can-eat, all-you-can-drink and all other all-inclusive and flatrate offers in any kind of businesses, from vacations to bus tickets, are allowed? Shouldn't it be up to the women and the clubs how they offer their services?
PS: Minimum age for a train driver in Germany is 21. No issue with the AGG.Well, the AGG would of course only apply to hired personnell, not to self-employed pros. That's why I mentioned those seperately. Train driving requires special skills, that's propably the reason for the age limit, just as you can get a driver's licence only from a certain age. There's no reason for something like that that in the sex business, other than the general legal-age laws regarding sex.
Why wouldn't it be a violation of the AGG? That law was passed specifically to prevent (amongst other things) age discrimination in work-relations. Now there are suddenly plans to discriminate 18-20 year old women from working as prostitutes? Like they also discriminated BULGs and ROMs who were / are prohibited from doing Gangbangs under a certain age because of their nationality. Granted, the AGG only applies when the woman is not self-employed; I would still think that it would serve self-employed ones if they were to use it as an argumentation to support their case. The alternative for them will be to be driven into illegality again, which isn't wanted by the feministresses and "Gutmenschen" either.
Hessen Bub
08-11-14, 17:24
I stated it before: 18-21 year old girls are far more often trafficked than girls above 21. That is the main reason. For me.
If there is a legal age for a profession. Why should that be a violation of AGG?
HB.
SwingerLover
08-11-14, 19:25
If there is a legal age for a profession. Why should that be a violation of AGG?Not for A profession, but for THIS profession. I can see no "legitimate goal" that would justify an exception based on § 10 AGG: www.gesetze-im-internet.de/agg/__10.html.
1. This could be said about any line of work, true. But in other lines of work there's less trafficking and a regulated work environment.Feminist BS IMO. What happens is that older, less attractive women want to suppress younger, more attractive ones, in order to artificially drive up the price of pussy. There's much more trafficking in the housework sector (maids etc.) and in construction work. But since it doesn't directly affect the interests of the feminist sexual trade-union, it doesn't make the headlines.
Note that the minimal age for prostitution seems to be regulated by State laws, not by federal laws.
Feminist BS IMO. What happens is that older, less attractive women want to suppress younger, more attractive ones, in order to artificially drive up the price of pussy. There's much more trafficking in the housework sector (maids etc.) and in construction work. But since it doesn't directly affect the interests of the feminist sexual trade-union, it doesn't make the headlines.
Note that the minimal age for prostitution seems to be regulated by State laws, not by federal laws.Age restriction is sensitive topic because it is true to say that when you are 18 years old, you are more naive and easily drown into temptation via wrong intention of others, and in the area of prostitution so called PIMP or similar character is the one who try to convince naive girls into prostitution. This always has been the problem that is why FKK was legalized and controlled to secure working girls, and also us mongers.
For us, it is better with age restriction at 18 years old, but rationally speaking, raising it to 21 do make sense to certain extent. You are your own boss of life, but you cannot expect all 18 years old girls to be mature as 21 years old. They could still be naive.
Hessen Bub
08-11-14, 21:32
Not for A profession, but for THIS profession. I can see no "legitimate goal" that would justify an exception based on 10 AGG: www.gesetze-im-internet.de/agg/__10.html.Goal is to protect young inexperienced girls from trafficking. Perfect fit.
"Ungeachtet des § 8 ist eine unterschiedliche Behandlung wegen des Alters auch zulässig, wenn sie objektiv und angemessen und durch ein legitimes Ziel gerechtfertigt ist. Die Mittel zur Erreichung dieses Ziels müssen angemessen und erforderlich sein. ".
HB.
Citizen Kane
08-11-14, 21:38
PS: Minimum age for a train driver in Germany is 21. No issue with the AGG.And it's also the reason why I stopped paying train drivers for sex.
SwingerLover
08-12-14, 10:09
angemessen und erforderlich .Appropriate & necessary! Defined by who? It's one of the usual German rubber-formulations that you can bend sideways in every direction.
but you cannot expect all 18 years old girls to be mature as 21 years old. They could still be naive.Yes, they could. But if they are still considers old enough and mature enough to vote for government, then they are also old and mature enough to fuck for money. Otherwise: Raise the age limit for voting to 21 as well.
And it's also the reason why I stopped paying train drivers for sex.Now that was funny LOL!
2. I wouldn't mind to have Flatrate sex banned. .Well I'm certainly glad you are not in power.
I stated it before: 18-21 year old girls are far more often trafficked than girls above 21. That is the main reason. For me.
HB.+1. Excellent point.
And in response to the other poster, I doubt that this "movement" is coming from middle-aged working ladies trying to suppress the younger ones. You don't really believe that do you? Do you think that 18 year olds are going to protest for their right to hook?
Raising the age is a societal issue. Hooking isn't like other jobs, so justifying standards as such is not an appropriate comparison. You can't compare the right to hook to the right to work at McDonalds. It involves selling an intimate part of yourself that you can never get back. It has effects down the line in terms of your personality and beliefs, as well as very real health risks. All of this on someone who has barely reached the threshold of an adult level maturity. If you think back to when you became 18, you didn't suddenly become instantly wiser. I didn't know crap about life when I was 18.
In addition, there will always be an illegal market for girls below the legal limit. We all know that. At least if the legal age is 21, then the ones who sneak by under the radar or are traffiked are still over 18.
Look, I understand the logic. There are some very mature 18 years olds, and yes, some really need the money, and yes, there is an additional factor of safety when its legal. But given the unique nature of the job and its far reaching consequences, I think that an additional safety factor of 3 years is reasonable. I am not going to preach and say that its unethical at 18, but that the suggestion of raising the age to 21 makes common sense and is probably a good idea.
We make compromises in society all the time. Here in the USA, the legal age to drive is often 16, but the right to drink is over 21. I think that putting in a 3 year safety factor, at the risk of offending all those 18 year olds demanding their right to hook, is a reasonable compromise.
+1. Excellent point.
And in response to the other poster, I doubt that this "movement" is coming from middle-aged working ladies trying to suppress the younger ones. You don't really believe that do you? Do you think that 18 year olds are going to protest for their right to hook?I do. Look at Goldentime, they now have a limit on age (over 21) and a limit on certain nationality's working in the club. They never had that before, why now? Could it be the senior girls grouped together and got this new house rule passed? I think something along those lines happened. I know they have several female counter workers, have to wonder what kind of pull they have with the owner and managers? You also say middle aged working ladies which gives the impression mid 40's (which is incorrect). Its the late 20's, early 30's girls who are losing their looks who benefit by keeping the competition from entering the club. Funny how it was ok for them to start working at the age of 19 but not for the new girls.
Ask yourself this, would a male owner of a club actually say "hey, lets put these restrictions on the new girls". It just doesn't fit, money is king and the hotter the talent, the better the turnout. Now it would be interesting if GT put a notice up that restricted women over the age of 30 from working in their club.
rationally speaking, raising it to 21 do make sense to certain extent. you are your own boss of life, but you cannot expect all 18 years old girls to be mature as 21 years old. they could still be naive.wrong. it is a dead loss to individual girls as they can make a packet when they're young. by the time they're 18 many will already have lost a lot of money they could've made earlier. imagine taking the 3 or 5 best years out of anyone's career by preventing them to be gainfully employed.
maturity is neither here nor there with women. females are officially children anyway (female hypoagency). females are victims (while men are predators). females never do anything of their own volition, they're always forced into it (it = prostitution, marriage, sex, work). females become x-rated actresses when they're 20 and when they become 40 and past it, they sue the whole world on the grounds that they were traumatised and forced into sucking cock when they were young. women get raped and beaten (you and me are [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) and brutes you see). this will never end. zillions of years ago, women didn't have the right to vote, so you can't change the past. feminism is a perpetual revolution, literally. and older women have only one enemy in society: younger women.
and of course because women are such victims, society should compensate them by taking money away from you through taxation.
google "the myth of sex-trafficking". some interesting stuff out there.
wrong. it is a dead loss to individual girls as they can make a packet when they're young. by the time they're 18 many will already have lost a lot of money they could've made earlier. imagine taking the 3 or 5 best years out of anyone's career by preventing them to be gainfully employed.
maturity is neither here nor there with women. females are officially children anyway (female hypoagency). females are victims (while men are predators). females never do anything of their own volition, they're always forced into it (it = prostitution, marriage, sex, work). females become x-rated actresses when they're 20 and when they become 40 and past it, they sue the whole world on the grounds that they were traumatised and forced into sucking cock when they were young. women get raped and beaten (you and me are [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) and brutes you see). this will never end. zillions of years ago, women didn't have the right to vote, so you can't change the past. feminism is a perpetual revolution, literally. and older women have only one enemy in society: younger women.
and of course because women are such victims, society should compensate them by taking money away from you through taxation.
google "the myth of sex-trafficking". some interesting stuff out there.i detect a note of sarcasm / satire between the lines of your post. which is fine. i get it. i also think that, in today's progressive society, the cries of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) are a little bit overdone. not that it doesn't happen, but its certainly a much better situation overall than say 20 years ago.
of course we want younger prettier girls, as would the fkk owners. and true, we would be depriving them of some early age income. that being said, hessenbub makes the point it is precisely the youngest and naive of the women, who are the most valued by men and the most susceptible to people who would take advantage of them somehow, whether by force or not. i think its easy to forget how naive we all were at 18. and to coldly say, "well they are 18 now and an adult, and i like young pussy. " that's a little cold. even in a libertarian society, we should have some sense of community in the world, and maybe protect these young women from themselves. i am willing to bet that some women who go into the profession later regret it in life, for various reasons. maybe an additional 3 years might help those women identify themselves. and for those women who are all for the sex, there will be still plenty of horny guys.
Hessen Bub
08-13-14, 22:01
Google "the myth of sex-trafficking". Some interesting stuff out there.You probably also believe in the chemtrails theory.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory
HB.
Hessen Bub
08-13-14, 22:05
I do. Look at Goldentime, they now have a limit on age (over 21) and a limit on certain nationality's working in the club. They never had that before, why now? Could it be the senior girls grouped together and got this new house rule passed?No, that is bullshit re the age restrictions. That is an agreement between the authorities and the club. Same thing as Palace in Frankfurt and AFAIK also Paradise in Stuttgart. For girls under 21 there are stricter and different criteria that apply when it comes to defining if a girl is trafficked or not. And that is German law. Having girls under 21 banned from the club may save the club a lot of trouble. Weren't there some checks and raids at GT?
HB.
I will be in Frankfurt on my birthday and I just wonder which clubs give you free entry on your birthday? I know this question has been asked by others but I can't seem to find the answers for Frankfurt clubs like Oase, World, Mainhattan, Palace or Sharks. I will be in a hotel close to Mainhattan.
UltraHappy
08-14-14, 00:09
I will be in Frankfurt on my birthday and I just wonder which clubs give you free entry on your birthday? I know this question has been asked by others but I can't seem to find the answers for Frankfurt clubs like Oase, World, Mainhattan, Palace or Sharks. I will be in a hotel close to Mainhattan.In Hessen, Palace and Mainhattan are reported to offer free entry on birthday. World is reported to give you a free bottle of prosecco (you get a voucher from reception after showing your identification; you give the voucher to the bar).
Or so it has been reported.
I personally would not celebrate my birthday in Palace even with the offer of free entry.
Plenty of clubs in NRW offer free entry on birthday.
I ran a search of the forum using the keywords "free" and "birthday. " After eliminating a few bogus results, here are some posts with relevant information:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3225-FKK-Sharks-Darmstadt&p=1544794&viewfull=1#post1544794.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=1523836&viewfull=1#post1523836.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=1508130&viewfull=1#post1508130.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=1507611&viewfull=1#post1507611.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1491-FKK-Mondial&p=1495957&viewfull=1#post1495957.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2597-FKK-Samya-Cologne&p=1494056&viewfull=1#post1494056.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3172-FKK-Mainhattan-Frankfurt&p=1391085&viewfull=1#post1391085.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3172-FKK-Mainhattan-Frankfurt&p=1391003&viewfull=1#post1391003.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3172-FKK-Mainhattan-Frankfurt&p=1389784&viewfull=1#post1389784.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2593-SC-Sauna-Club-Living-Room-Kaarst&p=1344141&viewfull=1#post1344141.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2593-SC-Sauna-Club-Living-Room-Kaarst&p=1344070&viewfull=1#post1344070.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1096-FKK-Oase-Burgholzhausen&p=1334545&viewfull=1#post1334545.
There are plenty more posts on this subject but I quit looking after the first page of results.
In Hessen, Palace and Mainhattan are reported to offer free entry on birthday. World is reported to give you a free bottle of prosecco (you get a voucher from reception after showing your identification; you give the voucher to the bar).I know Palace offers you free entry and Sharks 20 euro's off the entry price but I've never heard of free entry at Mainhattan or the deal at World. Since Mainhattan was the sister club of World, I would think it unlikely one would offer free entrance and the other a bottle of prosecco.
Other clubs that offer free entrance are Yin Yang, Goldentime, Living Room, Samya and Bernds.
I will be in Frankfurt on my birthday and I just wonder which clubs give you free entry on your birthday? I know this question has been asked by others but I can't seem to find the answers for Frankfurt clubs like Oase, World, Mainhattan, Palace or Sharks. I will be in a hotel close to Mainhattan.Haha, I always thought German FKK is more like demand being stronger than supply, but it is surprising to know that they make such offers for birthday.
Berlin need bit more competition because there is just Artemis. Berlin need other big FKK club and I feel there is demand for it in Berlin considering it is one of man tourist destination in Germany and considering the messe / trade shows that takes place there in frequent basis.
Thank you for the replies. I managed to find info about the NRW clubs but since I'll be in Frankfurt due to work it won't be possible to visit those clubs. I guess Palace is possible, but I am a bit hesitant about going there. The last time was no thrill to be exact.
No one told you this, but if you get free entry on your birthday, they line up all the girls to give you a spanking.
I will be in Frankfurt on my birthday and I just wonder which clubs give you free entry on your birthday? I know this question has been asked by others but I can't seem to find the answers for Frankfurt clubs like Oase, World, Mainhattan, Palace or Sharks. I will be in a hotel close to Mainhattan.
Somebody must have heard your wishes! A new FKK Grand Plaza is about to open in the Potsdam area, officially the 15th of October. I highly anticipate more competition for Artemis and their high pricelevel!
http://www.fkk-sauna-clubs.de/potsdam/fkk-grand-plaza/825_fkk-grand-plaza.html
Haha, I always thought German FKK is more like demand being stronger than supply, but it is surprising to know that they make such offers for birthday.
Berlin need bit more competition because there is just Artemis. Berlin need other big FKK club and I feel there is demand for it in Berlin considering it is one of man tourist destination in Germany and considering the messe / trade shows that takes place there in frequent basis.
Somebody must have heard your wishes! A new FKK Grand Plaza is about to open in the Potsdam area, officially the 15th of October. I highly anticipate more competition for Artemis and their high pricelevel!
http://www.fkk-sauna-clubs.de/potsdam/fkk-grand-plaza/825_fkk-grand-plaza.htmlIt will be interesting when info is available on prices. Also whether easily reached by public transport plus walking or short taxi.
Somebody must have heard your wishes! A new FKK Grand Plaza is about to open in the Potsdam area, officially the 15th of October. I highly anticipate more competition for Artemis and their high pricelevel!
http://www.fkk-sauna-clubs.de/potsdam/fkk-grand-plaza/825_fkk-grand-plaza.htmlThis is good news Potsdam is not that not hard to leach, but is still far out of Berlin, but the question is that if this club is close to public train station or not? I think that may decide how convenient it would be international monger who do not want to rent car and drive in Germany.
Artemis is easy to leach both by taxi and public transport and for this reason, artemis had been real convenient to me.
However, there will be competition for Artemis, so they need to improve somethings to keep repeating customers.
Opening of new big (scale fkk has synergy affect that should lead to increase in level of girls and should put smile on our face.
Hessen Bub
08-16-14, 22:49
It's going to be like 25 km from Berlin city center. Hope it will be more successful than Paradise in Saarbrücken.
HB.
It's going to be like 25 km from Berlin city center. Hope it will be more successful than Paradise in Saarbrcken.
HB.Which means, if I like that new FKK in Potsdam, I just shift my base hotel in Potsdam. I guess hotel rate is cheaper in Potsdam, so that may serve my interest.
It seems it will be bigger than Artemis. It even says it will have casino. Which I do not care much as I am already gambling with girls how good their service will be in the room.
Sometimes I hit Jackpot and I get more than fkk house promised to clients. Sometimes, not. , but when I hit jackpot and make right decision choosing right girl, it is worth it.
It will even be more competition for FKk artemis, if this new fkk decides to set their entrance fee and session fee with girls cheaper than Artemis!
Brazil Specialist
08-18-14, 20:53
i do. look at goldentime, they now have a limit on age (over 21) and a limit on certain nationality's working in the club. they never had that before, why now? could it be the senior girls grouped together and got this new house rule passed? i think something along those lines happened. i know they have several female counter workers, have to wonder what kind of pull they have with the owner and managers? you also say middle aged working ladies which gives the impression mid 40's (which is incorrect). its the late 20's, early 30's girls who are losing their looks who benefit by keeping the competition from entering the club. funny how it was ok for them to start working at the age of 19 but not for the new girls.
ask yourself this, would a male owner of a club actually say "hey, lets put these restrictions on the new girls". it just doesn't fit, money is king and the hotter the talent, the better the turnout. now it would be interesting if gt put a notice up that restricted women over the age of 30 from working in their club.funny, i first read they might put up a note to restrict women under 30 from the club. that might happen in the near future.
the site www.theantifeminist.com and the sites in his blogroll deal with sex hysteria, history of feminism. he espouses the theory of feminism as a sexual trade union, where old hags make laws and invent stories (like trafficking) to make sure their men can not enjoy young lasses.
the antifeminist says: all feminists are [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127).
feminists prevent men from having sex not only with girls under an ever increasing age of consent, but also with their 30 year old secretaries (harassment laws and "power differential" restrictions), with women who are a bit tipsy, etc.
all this with the purpose to force men to have sex with the older hags. thus it is [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123).
ever since women got the vote, their first actions was to close brothels and to increase the age of consent. it used to be around 12, world wide, before about 1900. ever since feminists have been working hard to increase it. spain just increased it from 12 to 16.
germany, as far as i understand has age of consent 14. note that age of consent does not mean that girls that age should have sex.
it means that it is not necessary for government to meddle in private affairs and it is up to parents to watch and educate their kids over the age of consent.
feminists also try hard to restrict porn, every possible sexual outlet. though it has been proven by serious academic peer reviewed researcher milton diamond, that prohibiting porn causes more [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) and sex crimes.
note also:
mandatory 15 years jail for photos of legal girl friend: you can have sex with them; just don't photograph them:
http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/teenage-sexuality/mandatory-15-years-jail-for-photos-of-legal-girl-friend-you-can-have-sex-with-them-just-dont-photograph-them
+1. excellent point.
and in response to the other poster, i doubt that this "movement" is coming from middle-aged working ladies trying to suppress the younger ones. you don't really believe that do you? do you think that 18 year olds are going to protest for their right to hook?
raising the age is a societal issue. hooking isn't like other jobs, so justifying standards as such is not an appropriate comparison. you can't compare the right to hook to the right to work at mcdonalds. it involves selling an intimate part of yourself that you can never get back. it has effects down the line in terms of your personality and beliefs, as well as very real health risks. all of this on someone who has barely reached the threshold of an adult level maturity. if you think back to when you became 18, you didn't suddenly become instantly wiser. i didn't know crap about life when i was 18.
in addition, there will always be an illegal market for girls below the legal limit. we all know that. at least if the legal age is 21, then the ones who sneak by under the radar or are traffiked are still over 18.
look, i understand the logic. there are some very mature 18 years olds, and yes, some really need the money, and yes, there is an additional factor of safety when its legal. but given the unique nature of the job and its far reaching consequences, i think that an additional safety factor of 3 years is reasonable. i am not going to preach and say that its unethical at 18, but that the suggestion of raising the age to 21 makes common sense and is probably a good idea.
we make compromises in society all the time. here in the usa, the legal age to drive is often 16, but the right to drink is over 21. i think that putting in a 3 year safety factor, at the risk of offending all those 18 year olds demanding their right to hook, is a reasonable compromise.see the links above, about the sexual trade union theory.
i just had an aging professional hit on me, she must have been way over 35. she said that young girls are very immature. when i said that maybe the minimum age in the fkk should be 25, she wholeheartedly agreed.
now, trafficking is the favorite lie of feminists, repeated for a century.
the most famous trafficking activist, that spoke in the united nations general assembly and in the white house has been proven a fraud. this was on the cover of time (or newsweek).
somaly mam: her own story is a lie. she had auditions for girls to train to tell sob stories to a gullible press and international institutions.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/06/somaly-mam-nick-kristof-cult-of-personality/
http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/prostitution/sex-trafficking-lies-debunked-somaly-mam-top-100-most-influential-person-is-a-prostitution-slavery-trafficking-hoax
http://mythofsextrafficking.********.ch/ sorry this was censored out, it had the word blog followed by the word spot.
it is all lies, by feminists allied with religious zealots, to prevent men from having sex.
there are a few articles about sex trafficking hoaxes during super bowl, where they claim there are thousands and no trafficked women are found.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2014/01/just_in_time_fo.php
http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-02-01/news/super-bowl-prostitution-hoax/
recently britain had a several month long intense nationwide police hunt for trafficked women and found about three.
age restriction is sensitive topic because it is true to say that when you are 18 years old, you are more naive and easily drown into temptation via wrong intention of others, and in the area of prostitution so called pimp or similar character is the one who try to convince naive girls into prostitution. this always has been the problem that is why fkk was legalized and controlled to secure working girls, and also us mongers.
for us, it is better with age restriction at 18 years old, but rationally speaking, raising it to 21 do make sense to certain extent. you are your own boss of life, but you cannot expect all 18 years old girls to be mature as 21 years old. they could still be naive.well you can not expect all 21 year olds to be as mature as 30 year olds. they still could be naive. i would say, real wisdom is only acquired by the age of 70.
i stated it before: 18-21 year old girls are far more often trafficked than girls above 21. that is the main reason. for me.
if there is a legal age for a profession. why should that be a violation of agg?
hb.as pointed out above, almost all trafficking stories are elaborate hoaxes, a conspiracy.
if trafficking is almost non-existent, if it is a feminist hoax, then there are not more 18 to 21 year old girls trafficked.
and also, there are certainly more 21 to 45 year old girls traficked then 50 to 70 year olds. so we should only allow girls over 50.
furthermore, if we have trafficked unfree people that make jogging shoes, we do not outlaw jogging shoes altogether. or put the minimum age for jogging shoe factory workers up to 21 or 25.
also, giving talent work visas to 18 year old illegals could stop sex trafficking of girls who are not allowed to do the sex work they want to do and thus get trafficked willingly.
some other potential sex trafficking has to do with men threatening a girl's family in their home country. this needs to be fought by putting the home country in order. prostitutes are better prey for extortion rackets because they earn more then a construction helper. but it does not have anything to do with prostitution per se.
Hessen Bub
08-18-14, 22:25
If trafficking is almost non-existent, if it is a feminist hoax, then there are not more 18 to 21 year old girls trafficked.
To say that trafficking is a feminist hoax and conspiracy is false and a punch in the face for trafficked girls in Germany. How do you define trafficking? Is a girl trafficked who is threatened by a guy to do her or her family harm if she doesn't bring him a certain amount of money per week? Even if he doesn't physically hit or abuse her? I've seen enough of that in Germany.
http://www.bka.de/nn_194550/EN/SubjectsAZ/TraffickingInHumanBeings/traffickingInHumanBeings__node.html?__nnn=true
The age of consent in Germany may be 14, but you have to be 18 if you want to work as a prostitute. For girls under 21 criteria for trafficking are stricter than for girls over 21. You should stay with the facts and not post some obscure links and data not relevant for the discussion (age if consent of 14).
HB.
To say that trafficking is a feminist hoax and conspiracy is false and a punch in the face for trafficked girls in Germany. How do you define trafficking? Is a girl trafficked who is threatened by a guy to do her or her family harm if she doesn't bring him a certain amount of money per week? Even if he doesn't physically hit or abuse her? I've seen enough of that in Germany.
http://www.bka.de/nn_194550/EN/SubjectsAZ/TraffickingInHumanBeings/traffickingInHumanBeings__node.html?__nnn=true
The age of consent in Germany may be 14, but you have to be 18 if you want to work as a prostitute. For girls under 21 criteria for trafficking are stricter than for girls over 21. You should stay with the facts and not post some obscure links and data not relevant for the discussion (age if consent of 14).
HB.I agree with HB, such a trade do still exist and in some country it is more than others and I feel it is just sad nature of this oldest profession called prostitution.
It is hard topic for us monger to comment on and maybe our excuse is that girl we session with in German FKK is not exactly forced to work there, but based on my experience, there are some cases that some FKK girls actually has PIMP. For example, I met a lot of girls at FKK who tattooed their name of boyfriend from hells angel on her body. I mean is it part of kind of forced prostitution or is that their choice to be pimped by their boy friend who is member of hells angel or related parties. They all provide good service and I never felt un safe and by appearance girls seemed to be fine with the situation too. Or maybe just too naive to realize the situation.
Either way, I feel German FKK is handling this sad problem well as they can and that is one of the reason why prostitution was legalized in germany, so that it can be controlled by state to protect women and also clients from these negative side of sex industry. Nothing can be done perfectly.
SwingerLover
08-19-14, 14:53
Is a girl trafficked who is threatened by a guy to do her or her family harm if she doesn't bring him a certain amount of money per week? Even if he doesn't physically hit or abuse her? I've seen enough of that in Germany.That's no trafficking, that plain and simple extortion!
Where have you seen that? Did you call the police? Because if you see a crime in progress, you are obliged to inform the police (and even intervene if possible).
Since I got the idea from a recent post of yours that you don't do flatrate, I assume you saw that in an FKK- or Sauna-Club? I've never seen anybody at a flatrate place or a gangbang that gave me any idea about the girl not working there voluntarely. Sure, they all have their bad days sometimes. But if they hop around dancing in the lounge at 22:00 all happy and cheerful after already being fucked for 11 hours, then that doesn't strike me as someone who is forced into the business.
So (without having checked the links yet) I agree with Brazil Specialist for the most part. IMO the trafficking issue is blown out of proportion as much as the STD hysteria is. And all because the men seem to be unable to send the feminists back to the kitchen.
The age of consent in Germany may be 14, but you have to be 18 if you want to work as a prostitute. The latter is correct, the former only partially. The legal age to have sex is 14 ONLY if the sex-partner is under 21! Otherwise it's 16, and all as long as it's no paysex.
Of course laws regarding porn apply as well. That creates the ridiculous sitution that theoretically a group of 40 year old guys could pick up two 16 year old girls at a disco and take them home for an orgy, if the girls consent to it and there is no money paid; but they do not dare take pictures of that action and then show those pics to the girls, because that would be offering pornographic photos to minors. (Same goes of course for a 40-year-old woman who would take in a group of 16-year-old boys. But I guess feminists wouldn't mind in this case.) So at 16, they are basically old enough to DO porn, (as long as it's not filmed or photographed) but are not allowed to watch it. Are there any countries where laws are more stupid?
Hessen Bub
08-19-14, 22:58
What are you trying to tell me? There's no forced girls in flatrate clubs? Keep on dreaming. I know what I have seen in FKK clubs and I know what actions I have taken. Did you read about the Pussy Club trial in Stuttgart / Fellbach a few years ago? That was a Flatrate Club. So a girl dancing can't be trafficked? Good one. How naive can you be?
If you want to go on provoking with stupid stereotypes and if you don't want to see the dark side of the business and that you have certainly be fucking extorted or trafficked girls. Do so. Reality bites. I'll stop discussing that matter here, the facts have been stated, opinions exchanged.
HB.
As long as we have recently been on the topic of age limits and [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908), I wanted to point out an excellent cover article and editorial in "The Economist" last week on prostitution. Anyone interested in the changing economics and demographics of prostitution should check it out.
In case any of you have never heard of it, The Economists is pretty much the best news magazine out there. It is a truly politically moderate publication and unaffected by the current partisan madness in the US. Its like Time magazine, but with a broader foreign events coverage, and much more intelligent. I think that it is the highest quality periodical of any kind.
SwingerLover
08-20-14, 13:20
Did you read about the Pussy Club trial in Stuttgart / Fellbach a few years ago?No, I didn't. I did however see a TV documentary, where some girls bitterly complained about not being able to work there anymore.
So a girl dancing can't be trafficked? Of course she could. It's not the dancing that convinced me otherwise in this case, but the cheerful attitude they displayed. People who are forced into doing something are not that happy!
and if you don't want to see the dark side of the business I have indeed seen no such thing as a "dark side of the business" regarding the girls at the places I have been to so far. (The only "dark side" was "dark" for the guys, if they got cheated or got bad service at one place or another.) You can't be serious if you are telling me that the women at the Spermagames- or GB01-gangbangs are trafficked, nor have I seen any indication at the few flatrate clubs I have been to. I strongly suspect that if there is any trafticking going on at all, it happens at the high-priced P4 P places, at regular brothels or with street hookers. Because that's where the most money could be "trafficked".
to say that trafficking is a feminist hoax and conspiracy is false and a punch in the face for trafficked girls in germany. please spend some time reading / googling about "the myth of sex-trafficking". also about "the rescue industry". and while you're at it, about "male chivalry", "female victimhood", "male disposability" and "female hypoagency".
why not marry a trafficked girl to rescue her? you could do so when she's 16 or 14 in some countries, because you see, she may not be mature enough to prostitute, but she's mature enough to marry you (turn you into her own personal slave). so you marry natasha to save her from the evil sex-traffickers. after a while she takes you to the cleaners before the family court. she lives and fucks other men in your house (her house now). she has you put in jail for alimony delinquency. she falsely accuses you of molesting her / your children (of which she has exclusive custody). be lucky she doesn't (yet) have the right to have you slaughtered in order to sell your organs.
in today's world, indeed throughout history, it's men who've been exploited / trafficked, tortured and killed. millions of men maimed and killed in war. 500 thousand killed at the battle of the somme, how many women among them? hundreds of thousands of men beaten and ass-raped in prisons. do you think women care? they don't. women do not even recognize men have human rights. hell, women do not even recognize men are human. to women, men are at best utilities. and you should worry about some natasha who made bad life choices because she got gina tingles for some bad boy from one of the former soviet republics? wake up!
HB I wouldn't spend too much times on these bozos who think they have it so bad; most people know better.
I would use a different term though, as the definition of "traficking" is so broad as to lose any meaning. If you give a girl a lift from Sharks to Oase (because she heard it's so much better there) and she gives you a piece of gum along the way (let alone any real compensation): you're liable to be prosecuted for trafficking.
If the authorities would really mind so much, they'd make it a bit easier for girls to start in this line of work (admittedly Germany isn't as bad as Holland), thus eliminating (to some extent) the need for go betweens.
Hessen Bub
08-21-14, 07:51
If you give a girl a lift from Sharks to Oase (because she heard it's so much better there) and she gives you a piece of gum along the way (let alone any real compensation): you're liable to be prosecuted for trafficking.Maybe with a girl being under 21 due to stricter laws, but not with girls being over 21. Even for girls 18-21 I doubt that.
HB.
Just look up the official international definition that 160 countries have agreed on. I'm sure no one will actually take it to these extremes, but anyone arranging transport for a girl in this business and getting better because of it (the gum): a trafficker. They explicitly make a distinction between sexwork and other businesses, otherwise every normal job recruiter would be a traficker and guys like poor Syzygies would be "victims".
Honestly, the fact they can't or refuse to differentiate between the different set ups makes the whole thing unusable.
Jimmy Boy 99
08-21-14, 14:50
HB I wouldn't spend too much times on these bozos who think they have it so bad; most people know better.
If you give a girl a lift from Sharks to Oase (because she heard it's so much better there) and she gives you a piece of gum along the way (let alone any real compensation): you're liable to be prosecuted for trafficking.If that is the case, then wouldn't all the taxi drivers who drive the girls to the clubs be subject to prosecution for trafficking? The authorities could put a big dent in the business just by going after the taxi drivers.
a) ... the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation. Exploitation shall include, at a minimum, the exploitation of the prostitution of others or other forms of sexual exploitation, forced labour or services, slavery or practices similar to slavery, servitude or the removal of organs;
(b) The consent of a victim of trafficking in persons to the intended exploitation set forth in subparagraph (a) of this article shall be irrelevant where any of the means set forth in subparagraph (a) have been used;
(c) The recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of a child for the purpose of exploitation shall be considered “trafficking in persons” even if this does not involve any of the means set forth in subparagraph (a) of this article;
(d) “Child” shall mean any person under eighteen years of age. Remember that being poor means your "vulnerable".
Hessen Bub
08-22-14, 07:38
Just look up the official international definition that 160 countries have agreed on. I'm sure no one will actually take it to these extremes, but anyone arranging transport for a girl in this business and getting better because of it (the gum): a trafficker. I can't get to your conclusion from the paragraphs you posted.
HB.
Free Dude. Thank you for the excellent definitions of trafficking. I only wish politicians and law enforcement would stick to these definitions. If someone does a job because of poverty I don't think that makes them vulnerable within the terms of the definitions so like HB I don't get to the conclusion that it's trafficking to do a job because of poverty. Outside of the issue of trafficking you are correct in that this job is like any other. People do it for money and there are occupational (mainly health) hazards.
Hessen Bub
08-22-14, 11:14
This is what I found on GERMAN law. As we are in the German section of the board this is what is valid for me (sorry, but it is in German):
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwangsprostitution#Menschenhandel. 2 C_. C2. A7. C2. A0180 b_StGB.
Definition
Als Menschenhandel bzw. Schwerer Menschenhandel (in über 99 % der bekannten Fälle handelt es sich faktisch um Frauenhandel) wird im Kontext des deutschen Strafrechts die sexuelle Ausbeutung einer Person unter 21 Jahren, einer Person durch Zwangsprostitution oder die sexuelle Ausbeutung (inkl. Anfertigung pornographischen Materials oder pornographischer Darbietungen) einer Person, die durch den Aufenthalt in einem für sie fremden Land hilflos ist, genannt.
Die Bundesregierung hat einen Gesetzentwurf in Arbeit, demzufolge Freier von Zwangsprostituierten mit Freiheitsentzug von bis zu zehn Jahren bestraft werden können.
International geschütztes Rechtsgut
In Erweiterung des allgemeinen Gültigkeitsbereiches des deutschen Strafgesetzbuches (StGB) werden gem. § 6 Nr. 4 StGB Menschenhandel und schwerer Menschenhandel auch dann verfolgt, wenn die Taten im Ausland begangen wurden.
(Dieser Bereich muss überarbeitet werden, da sich 2005 die Gesetzeslage geändert hat. Die neuen Regelungen zum Menschenhandel sind jetzt in §§ 232 ff StGB zu finden.)
Menschenhandel, § 180b StGB
Zwangslage, § 180b Abs. 1 Satz 1 StGB
Menschenhandel nach § 180b StGB liegt dann vor, wenn jemand zu seiner persönlichen Bereicherung auf eine Person in einer Zwangslage (z. B. Geldnot) dahingehend einwirkt, dass diese Person der Prostitution zum Vorteil des Schädigers nachgeht.
Der Täter wird in diesen Fällen mit Geldstrafe oder Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft.
Hilflosigkeit, § 180b Abs. 1 Satz 2 StGB
Ebenfalls als Menschenhandel nach § 180b StGB wird bestraft, wenn der Täter wissentlich zu seinem Vermögensvorteil auf eine Person, welche durch den Aufenthalt in einem fremden Land hilflos ist, einwirkt, sexuelle Handlungen an oder vor dritten Personen vorzunehmen oder von oder vor Dritten an sich vornehmen zu lassen. Dieser Paragraph umfasst nicht die Prostitution im klassischen Sinne (siehe unten), sondern beispielsweise die Darbietung oder Erstellung pornographischen Materials unter Ausnutzung des Opfers zum Vermögensvorteil des Täters.
Der Täter wird in diesen Fällen mit Geldstrafe oder Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft.
Prostitution einer hilflosen Person, § 180b Absatz 2 Nr. 1 StGB
Schärfer bestraft (Freiheitsstrafe von sechs Monaten bis zehn Jahren) wird, wer die mit dem Aufenthalt in einem fremden Land verbundene Hilflosigkeit einer Person ausnutzt, um diese zur Prostitution zu überreden (§ 180b). Ein eigener Vermögensvorteil ist nicht Tatbestandsmerkmal.
Prostitution von Jugendlichen, § 180b Abs. 2 Nr. 2, Absatz 3 StGB (Gültig bis 11. Februar 2005)
Ebenfalls mit Freiheitsstrafe von sechs Monaten bis zehn Jahren wird bestraft, wer eine Person unter 21 Jahren zur Prostitution überredet. Der Versuch ist gemäß Absatz 3 strafbar. Ein eigener Vermögensvorteil ist hier nicht Tatbestandsmerkmal.
Dieser Paragraph ist aufgehoben. Die Aufhebung des § 180b StGB erfolgte durch das 37. Strafrechtsänderungsgesetz vom 11. Februar 2005.
§ 180 Förderung sexueller Handlungen Minderjähriger
(1) Wer sexuellen Handlungen einer Person unter sechzehn Jahren an oder vor einem Dritten oder sexuellen Handlungen eines Dritten an einer Person unter sechzehn Jahren
1. durch seine Vermittlung oder
2. durch Gewähren oder Verschaffen von Gelegenheit
Vorschub leistet, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. Satz 1 Nr. 2 ist nicht anzuwenden, wenn der zur Sorge für die Person Berechtigte handelt; dies gilt nicht, wenn der Sorgeberechtigte durch das Vorschubleisten seine Erziehungspflicht gröblich verletzt.
(2) Wer eine Person unter achtzehn Jahren bestimmt, sexuelle Handlungen gegen Entgelt an oder vor einem Dritten vorzunehmen oder von einem Dritten an sich vornehmen zu lassen, oder wer solchen Handlungen durch seine Vermittlung Vorschub leistet, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.
(3) Wer eine Person unter achtzehn Jahren, die ihm zur Erziehung, zur Ausbildung oder zur Betreuung in der Lebensführung anvertraut oder im Rahmen eines Dienst- oder Arbeitsverhältnisses untergeordnet ist, unter Missbrauch einer mit dem Erziehungs-, Ausbildungs-, Betreuungs-, Dienst- oder Arbeitsverhältnis verbundenen Abhängigkeit bestimmt, sexuelle Handlungen an oder vor einem Dritten vorzunehmen oder von einem Dritten an sich vornehmen zu lassen, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.
(4) In den Fällen der Absätze 2 und 3 ist der Versuch strafbar.Also from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany#Legal_situation):
Pimping, (Zuhälterei = exploiting and/or controlling a sex worker) admitting prostitutes under the age of eighteen to a brothel, and influencing persons under the age of twenty-one to take up or continue work in prostitution, are illegal. It is also illegal to contract sex services from any person younger than 18. (Before 2008 this age limit was 16.) This law also applies to Germans traveling abroad, to combat child prostitution occurring in the context of sex tourism.So taking a girl from club to club or from her home to a club and even taking money for gas from her is not illegal as far as I read the text. If you try to persuade a non-working girl under 21 that a job as a hooker would be great for her. That is illegal.
HB.
I used the official UN definition that 160 countries (including Germany) subscribe too. I'm afraid my German isn't good enough to grasp the detail that is clearly needed to understand these definitions.
If you look at the English definition (notice the many times they use "or"): "transporting or harbouring a person, that is in a vulnarable postition, for the purpose of exploitation" is traficking. This last word is only defined to include sexual exploitation, but not when your are deemed to exploit someone. Notice how "forced" is omitted when they discuss "sexual exploitation" compared to other forms of exploitation and how subsection be denotes how consent of the "victim" is irrelevant.
In other words if you receive payment from a girl for transporting her, and she can be described as being in a vulnarable position (ie poor) and working in the sex industry. The only debate in court would be whether the payment falls under the undefined term "exploitation". And honestly, if you are really meta about it, you can say anyone who has a business exploits the lack of skill that some people have (say a plumber).
Luckily most districts of attorney have better things to do than to go after cabdrivers, but this is the definition that also leads to the skewed numbers that are reported everywhere. If they would just stick to "force" being necessary for it being called trafficking (like in any other industry), things would be far more workable.
P.S. I know girls that would officially be called trafficked, and every time I see them they show me pictures of how the build of they're house is progressing and their latest car that the boyfriend drives in (pick up, drop off). Kids are planned for next year. These are of course just examples, but the way the authorities look at it: trafficking, and that makes the whole debate useless.
UltraHappy
08-22-14, 13:26
I used the official UN definition that 160 countries (including Germany) subscribe too. I'm afraid my German isn't good enough to grasp the detail that is clearly needed to understand these definitions.
If you look at the English definition (notice the many times they use "or"): "transporting or harbouring a person, that is in a vulnarable postition, for the purpose of exploitation" is trafficking. This last word is only defined to include sexual exploitation, but not when your are deemed to exploit someone. Notice how "forced" is omitted when they discuss "sexual exploitation" compared to other forms of exploitation and how subsection be denotes how consent of the "victim" is irrelevant.
I don't know why you seem to be hung up on this UN definition of trafficking from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime for Southeast Asia and Pacific. Just because an office of the UN happens to adopt a particular definition under which to conduct its studies doesn't mean that this definition has any force of law in the UN member nations.
I also don't know where you are getting this 160 countries agreed-on-definition business from. If you are referring to the membership of the UN, it's now at 193 countries. And just because a UN office adopts a certain definition, that doesn't mean that all 193 UN member countries have adopted this definition in their local law. I don't see any indication that this definition forms part of a 160 country treaty. Certainly I'm no expert on the UN, but it's certainly not clear to me why this definition should be relevant to prosecutions in Germany under national or local German law. Maybe I am missing some details that you could fill in?
Well for one thing: it's the only legally binding international instrument. But whatever, here's a link to a wiki site of all things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking.
For all intense and purposes THE relevant definition worldwide. If you think it 's irrelevant, go ahead. I'm not going to spend much more time "discussing" this.
If that is the case, then wouldn't all the taxi drivers who drive the girls to the clubs be subject to prosecution for trafficking? The authorities could put a big dent in the business just by going after the taxi drivers.It is about religion, not about logic. Religious conservative leaders don't like fucking.
Plus there is something not right about the girls to start with.
I used the official UN definition that 160 countries (including Germany) subscribe too. I'm afraid my German isn't good enough to grasp the detail that is clearly needed to understand these definitions.
If you look at the English definition (notice the many times they use "or"): "transporting or harbouring a person, that is in a vulnarable postition, for the purpose of exploitation" is traficking. This last word is only defined to include sexual exploitation, but not when your are deemed to exploit someone. Notice how "forced" is omitted when they discuss "sexual exploitation" compared to other forms of exploitation and how subsection be denotes how consent of the "victim" is irrelevant.
In other words if you receive payment from a girl for transporting her, and she can be described as being in a vulnarable position (ie poor) and working in the sex industry. The only debate in court would be whether the payment falls under the undefined term "exploitation". And honestly, if you are really meta about it, you can say anyone who has a business exploits the lack of skill that some people have (say a plumber).
Luckily most districts of attorney have better things to do than to go after cabdrivers, but this is the definition that also leads to the skewed numbers that are reported everywhere. If they would just stick to "force" being necessary for it being called trafficking (like in any other industry), things would be far more workable.
P.S. I know girls that would officially be called trafficked, and every time I see them they show me pictures of how the build of they're house is progressing and their latest car that the boyfriend drives in (pick up, drop off). Kids are planned for next year. These are of course just examples, but the way the authorities look at it: trafficking, and that makes the whole debate useless.Europeans sooooo full of shit. As if the German politicians don't go to FKK.
Hessen Bub
08-22-14, 16:31
Europeans sooooo full of shit. As if the German politicians don't go to FKK.I don't agree with FD. The sentence ends with "for the purpose of exploitation". Which is not my purpose when driving her and maybe (maybe) getting some compensation.
HB.
UltraHappy
08-23-14, 00:00
Well for one thing: it's the only legally binding international instrument. But whatever, here's a link to a wiki site of all things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking.
For all intense and purposes THE relevant definition worldwide. If you think it 's irrelevant, go ahead. I'm not going to spend much more time "discussing" this.Thank you for filling in the gaps. It looks like this definition is part of a UN Protocol (treaty) that has been in fact been ratified by 161 countries as you pointed out. It also looks like this UN Protocol obligates each ratifying party to implement national legislation in support of enforcing this protocol on a local level.
Still, a prosecutor in German will not look to this UN protocol when prosecuting an individual in Germany. They will look to the specific words of the national implementing legislation which will likely differ in many respects to the wording of this UN protocol. Indeed, looking to the law that HB posted, the contours and requirements of that law do in fact differ in quite substantial ways from this UN protocol. In any case, it doesn't make sense to look at the definition of [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) in the UN protocol for determining what someone may be prosecuted in Germany for. Instead, you have to look at the actual German law. Unless you manage to show that the two texts are identical. So far, I am not convinced of that.
But I'm glad you followed up with these additional links. Very informative. Thank you for sharing your research with all of us.
UltraHappy
08-23-14, 00:13
This link appears to recite the national German legislation in English regarding [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908):
http://www.protectionproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/GERMANY.pdf
Also shows up here if you scroll down to Section 232 and following sections: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html.
UltraHappy
08-23-14, 00:36
To say that trafficking is a feminist hoax and conspiracy is false and a punch in the face for trafficked girls in Germany. How do you define trafficking? Is a girl trafficked who is threatened by a guy to do her or her family harm if she doesn't bring him a certain amount of money per week? Even if he doesn't physically hit or abuse her? I've seen enough of that in Germany.
http://www.bka.de/nn_194550/EN/SubjectsAZ/TraffickingInHumanBeings/traffickingInHumanBeings__node.html?__nnn=true
The age of consent in Germany may be 14, but you have to be 18 if you want to work as a prostitute. For girls under 21 criteria for trafficking are stricter than for girls over 21. You should stay with the facts and not post some obscure links and data not relevant for the discussion (age if consent of 14).
HB.Thank you for posting this link HB. I finally found the time to read this report in its entirety.
It makes for a very interesting read. It includes lots of statistics regarding nationalities of the perpetrators, nationalities of the victims, percent of cases where violence, threats of violence, or deceit was used to induce the victims into prostitution. And surely, these statistics far under-report the actual statistics, because of course, many of these crimes are never reported.
I admit that I haven't spent as much time with working girls as many of senior members who actually live in Germany. But I have been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time with some of the girls outside the clubs, including some girls who had quit the business. Most of the girls I know seem to be their own agents. But, I do know some girls who were brought to Germany on false pretenses and who were induced into prostitution under threats of violence to them and to their families. It does happen. And certainly the younger girls are more susceptible to these inducements. These girls don't really have a good reason to lie to me because they are no longer working in the business and I am not paying them when I visit them.
Even the girls I know without "managers" who no longer work in the business are always telling me plenty of stories about other girls we knew before and how prevalent pimps are in this business. So, while I'm sure I'll never know the actual percentage of girls with "managers," I am convinced by my interactions with the girls that it would be folly to suggest that the percentage of girls without "managers" is an insignificant fraction.
Oh no I better not purchase anything in Europe be. See some part of it might have been handled by a broke ass Eastern European who's country is inexplicably part of the EU.
Solo Traveler
08-31-14, 04:10
I am not trying to create a controversy or offend German people here.
I am asking this question sincerely.
Do some kind of anti-Chinese thoughts prevail in the German society right now?
I heard that some people in Western Europe don't like China and even hold a hostile attitude toward it.
I don't know why.
I guess it has something to do with China's economy policy, which makes Western European labors feel threatened?
Or maybe it has something to do with the Chinese immigrants in Western Europe?
I am not sure. I don't live in Germany or Western Europe.
So, I hope someone can tell me the truth and real situation in German society right now.
I remembered that when the USA Decided to launch wars in the Middle East, some kind of anti-American / anti-USA Thoughts started to prevail over Western Europe.
Even the mainstream media helped the anti-USA Thoughts prevail.
So, if some anti-Chinese thoughts starts to prevail over Western Europe, it's going to be as horrible and unimaginable.
I am not a Chinese, but I am always mistaken as one, when I am in Western Europe.
Strangely, people in Western Europe can accept the idea that a person of African descent or Southern Asian decent may be an European or an American (if he was born and grew up in Europe or America), but when they see a person of East Asian descent, they automatically assume he is a Chinese from China.
I also want to know why this is happening.
Thanks
It could be a misunderstanding. Did they call you names? Hostile to me would be like "Go back to f* China!
Some people are ignorant and have zero social skills. They can't read signals and body language. They laugh at their own jokes, not realizing others are not laughing with them. They may not realize that pulling their eyes back, making mock martial arts and Chinese sounds was offensive to you.
Secondly, it doesn't sound like you speak German. Many people live in Germany and speak German, but they could be from other parts of Europe. Third, mocking languages is common. Most Europeans make mock German sounds. They are not necessarily hostile towards Germans. They just think German is an ugly language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3hLLwOhs6c.
Not saying there aren't German racists out there. But generally they are not overt. They are polite and probably would say it when you are not around. I believe Germans probably some guilt around the Holocaust. So any Germans who are racist or anti-semitic will be ostracized if they outwardly express their feelings.
Lastly, as others have pointed out. In other parts of the world like Japan, foreigners aren't allowed into certain sex establishments. In Germany, there isn't really such a thing. Except maybe the Anti-Turkish, anti-dark skin policy in NRW.
I am not trying to create a controversy or offend German people here.
I am asking this question sincerely.
Do some kind of anti-Chinese thoughts prevail in the German society right now?
I heard that some people in Western Europe don't like China and even hold a hostile attitude toward it.
I don't know why.
I guess it has something to do with China's economy policy, which makes Western European labors feel threatened?
Or maybe it has something to do with the Chinese immigrants in Western Europe?
I am not sure. I don't live in Germany or Western Europe.
So, I hope someone can tell me the truth and real situation in German society right now.
I remembered that when the USA Decided to launch wars in the Middle East, some kind of anti-American / anti-USA Thoughts started to prevail over Western Europe.
Even the mainstream media helped the anti-USA Thoughts prevail.
So, if some anti-Chinese thoughts starts to prevail over Western Europe, it's going to be as horrible and unimaginable.
I am not a Chinese, but I am always mistaken as one, when I am in Western Europe.
Strangely, people in Western Europe can accept the idea that a person of African descent or Southern Asian decent may be an European or an American (if he was born and grew up in Europe or America), but when they see a person of East Asian descent, they automatically assume he is a Chinese from China.
I also want to know why this is happening.
Thanks
In Germany, there isn't really such a thing. Except maybe the Anti-Turkish, anti-dark skin policy in NRW.And the NRW region comprises a substantial part of the FKK scene in Germany! As I have said before, the only club I have ever felt uncomfortable at in Germany was Golden Time, which is in the NRW. And I would add that's been the only place in the world where I have been at in the last ten years where I have felt like that! Sad but 100% true.
PussyLiccker
09-01-14, 02:41
Germany is a bit different from Japan and Korea since the working girls are from outside Germany. But, yes German girls are open minded compared to Japanese and Korean pay businesses. German girls don't discriminate, they give everybody bad services. :D
The Cane, it's sad to hear your experience at GT wasn't as great as other clubs. The club is mostly Dutch and yes, the door policy is quite tight to people they wish to shut out. I don't fully know the motivations behind their door policy, but it's a crowded club and their sister club not quite as popular has a more open door polity. I believe you were let in, and I've seen Caucasians not let in. I've seen a dark skinned Indian gentleman there that's been going there for a long time. The door policy is indeed confusing. Maybe you can give the place another try.
I hear new recent management.
"German girls don't discriminate, they give everybody bad services. " -- LOL.
Germany is a bit different from Japan and Korea since the working girls are from outside Germany. But, yes German girls are open minded compared to Japanese and Korean pay businesses. German girls don't discriminate, they give everybody bad services. :D
The Cane, it's sad to hear your experience at GT wasn't as great as other clubs. The club is mostly Dutch and yes, the door policy is quite tight to people they wish to shut out. I don't fully know the motivations behind their door policy, but it's a crowded club and their sister club not quite as popular has a more open door polity. I believe you were let in, and I've seen Caucasians not let in. I've seen a dark skinned Indian gentleman there that's been going there for a long time. The door policy is indeed confusing. Maybe you can give the place another try.
I hear new recent management.
Day by day I read FKK thread and I am being seduced. At the end found myself planning a 4th trip to Germany.
I am planning to go FRA and I will have wheels. My trip will be at least 4-7 days.
I am just curious FRA clubs got over the summer effect or will they got over in Early September maybe on 8th to 15.
Is there any big event or messe at this time period that can affect the quality of my trip?
I think I will make 3 or 4 visits and it can be Oase-Sharks-World or Oase-Sharks-GT or Oase-SharksSamya--GT.
I think driving your car between FRA to Cologne is a real pleasure..
Your comments will be appreciated.
And also I didn't know there is a anti-turkish policy in NRW or FRA I was in NRW 6 months ago and Owners of Samya are Turks. Some bodyguards in Oase was Turkish guys and was very helpful. Also I easily entered GT with a suit and all people was so friendly.
I don't know maybe it depends on which turk you are or which Chinese or which american. Just my opinion. Maybe they are not so much interested in your nationality.
Strangely my worst sessions were with Turkish girls always in GT or in Artemis and in other places. Very strange huh.
PussyLiccker
09-01-14, 21:25
Please tell us what went up(or down) when you were there in the GT thread. I didn't even know you were at GT. Don't recall seeing your report of GT. Been with couple Turkish girls at GT. I been with one really hot Turkish girl at GT, and service was not so good. Sheyanne is a pretty Turkish girl with the big naturals and nice booty, very down to earth and provide good service when she started.
And the NRW region comprises a substantial part of the FKK scene in Germany! As I have said before, the only club I have ever felt uncomfortable at in Germany was Golden Time, which is in the NRW. And I would add that's been the only place in the world where I have been at in the last ten years where I have felt like that! Sad but 100% true.Well I only knew of GT. So really it should be "NRW club", not plural. I think I have seen Turks at every other club. I also met the Indian regular at GT that PussyLicker speaks of. That guy is Dutch and speaks German as well. So they let you in to GT, but made you feel uncomfortable once you were inside? Was it other customers? The staff? Or the girls?
Nille Copenhagen
09-02-14, 10:28
Hi,
Anyone needs a job, they are looking for staffs at the new Club "Das Ocean".
I've already applied, see you there! LOL.
http://www.handwerk-industrie.com/inseratsdetails/inserat/131787/rezeptionist-m-w-service-mitarbeiter-m-w.html
Hessen Bub
09-02-14, 11:13
Yep. It is ONLY GT, and AFAIK GT is not consistent in turning away a special ethnic group of male guests.
HB.
The door policy is indeed confusing.I wonder whether the car you park in front of the club can get you in if it's an expensive one (or keep you out if it's a cheap one).
I wonder whether the car you park in front of the club can get you in if it's an expensive one (or keep you out if it's a cheap one).Heh, I've arrives on a crummy old bike at GT and it's no problem. There is no question, it is the local ethnic minorities they want to keep out and often that's all there is to it. Arriving alone and looking nice or rich might still improve your chances of course. The only other club I know that had a semi open racist policy was the old Freude, which is now closed. I do believe that in the new Freude minorities have a hard time getting in if they are early (but no problem in the evening).
What the RTCs is concerned: villa venus has a large Turkish cutomer base. I'm not to sure about the others.
There is no question, it is the local ethnic minorities they want to keep out and often that's all there is to it.Turks, especially young ones, don't have a good reputation. I remember latinas in Frankfurt's RLD (HbH) complaining about how young turks tried to come twice during the alloted short time (and demanded some of the money back if they couldn't).
Banana Boi
09-02-14, 22:07
Well I only knew of GT. So really it should be "NRW club", not plural. If I recall correctly some Asian ISG members had problems getting in to Pauschalclub Dortmund, Munster, and Bochum.
Please tell us what went up(or down) when you were there in the GT thread. I didn't even know you were at GT. Don't recall seeing your report of GT. Been with couple Turkish girls at GT. I been with one really hot Turkish girl at GT, and service was not so good. Sheyanne is a pretty Turkish girl with the big naturals and nice booty, very down to earth and provide good service when she started.I don't remember her name but she was a fake blonde and have a dark skin. Some tattoos. I didn't so much like the place because it was a rainy day so garden was empty. There were less girls because of non Romanian policy and quality was not as high as I am expecting. I think rooms are not comfortable for such a high class facility. Briefly for people like me Oase is much more preferable, much more fun.
I am not trying to create a controversy or offend German people here.
I am asking this question sincerely.
Do some kind of anti-Chinese thoughts prevail in the German society right now?
ThanksGermans are generally okay. They're too busy being German to care much about foreigners. IMO.
I guess it has something to do with China's economy policy, which makes Western European labors feel threatened?
Or maybe it has something to do with the Chinese immigrants in Western Europe?I think it is neither economic nor ethnic, but political.
People in the West do not like much the agressive expansionist policies that the Chinese governement currently pursues in East Asia. Neither do they like their way to pin down any dissent, and the way they handle the minorities (Ughurs, Tibetan).
This forum is not the place to argue about those policies, but this is an answer to your question.
I think it is neither economic nor ethnic, but political.
People in the West do not like much the agressive expansionist policies that the Chinese governement currently pursues in East Asia. Neither do they like their way to pin down any dissent, and the way they handle the minorities (Ughurs, Tibetan).
This forum is not the place to argue about those policies, but this is an answer to your question.Honest to god if you care what left wing hippy western europeans thought you wouldn't go to an FKK be. See it is exploitation. Seriously we're massively exploiting these poor girls and we're all dirty old men.
Solo Traveler
09-07-14, 15:27
It could be a misunderstanding. Did they call you names? Hostile to me would be like "Go back to f* China!
Some people are ignorant and have zero social skills. They can't read signals and body language. They laugh at their own jokes, not realizing others are not laughing with them. They may not realize that pulling their eyes back, making mock martial arts and Chinese sounds was offensive to you.
Secondly, it doesn't sound like you speak German. Many people live in Germany and speak German, but they could be from other parts of Europe. Third, mocking languages is common. Most Europeans make mock German sounds. They are not necessarily hostile towards Germans. They just think German is an ugly language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3hLLwOhs6c.
Not saying there aren't German racists out there. But generally they are not overt. They are polite and probably would say it when you are not around. I believe Germans probably some guilt around the Holocaust. So any Germans who are racist or anti-semitic will be ostracized if they outwardly express their feelings.
Lastly, as others have pointed out. In other parts of the world like Japan, foreigners aren't allowed into certain sex establishments. In Germany, there isn't really such a thing. Except maybe the Anti-Turkish, anti-dark skin policy in NRW.Hi McAdonis,
1. After rethinking this issue for a while, I agree that what happened to me (which offended me and made me feel uncomfortable) were resulted from ignorance, stupidity, and maybe slight disrespect.
They were not resulted from hostility or hatred.
2. And, yes, I don't speak German. I cannot tell if a person is a local German, an immigrant from other parts of the world, or just a foreign tourist like myself.
I remembered a local German (born and grew up in Frankfurt) told me that there are actually more foreigners (non-German citizens) than the local German citizens around Frankfurt and the Main river area.
Therefore, it's possible that I was just unlucky to meet some despicable foreigners from other countries. If that's the case, then, yes, it has nothing to do with Germany or the Germans.
3. Yes, I get your point.
In Germany, East Asians are not be the targets to be discriminated against.
East Asians may be mocked or made fun of, but not encounter any real harm or any real hostility / hatred.
Okay, I guess the East Asian males' stereotypes in the Western world are sometimes two-edged swords for "westernized East Asians" like me.
I remembered that when I get into a gym in Kelsterbach, every one inside started to stare at me, as if they never thought that an East Asian guy would be masculine and tough enough to come to a gym and lift weights like a real man. LOL.
Thank you very much for your reply.
Solo Traveler
09-07-14, 15:59
I think it is neither economic nor ethnic, but political.
People in the West do not like much the agressive expansionist policies that the Chinese government currently pursues in East Asia. Neither do they like their way to pin down any dissent, and the way they handle the minorities (Ughurs, Tibetan).
This forum is not the place to argue about those policies, but this is an answer to your question.Yes, that would be an answer. Sounds like the reasons the USA was disliked before 2008.
However, one can dislike a government all he wants, but if he starts to take his anger out on the people from that country, he definitely crosses the line.
Besides, most people living outside Asia don't seem to know much about Asia.
I've met lots of Europeans who call all East Asian-looking people "Chinese", and call all South Asian-looking people "Indian".
Germans are generally okay. They're too busy being German to care much about foreigners. IMO.Yes, I agree with you.
Germany is foreigners-friendly in general.
However, I did hear very few people saying something like they were tired of foreigners occupying their living spaces and taking their resources.
PussyLiccker
09-07-14, 19:43
You are reading too much into it ST. Lots of what you stated are speculations. As long as nobody harasses, beats you, or deny equal opportunity, no need to speculate small stuff. Germany is a civil place compared to some places around the world. If you look like an outsider no doubt people will notice.
Just out of pure interest.
Does girls working in FKK have to pay tax on their income? Like income tax etc.
I mean if sessions are like 50 euro /60 euro right? Do FKK girls have to pay income tax on these?
I would imagine they have to pay tax since it is legal business activities in Germany to sell sex in FKK, but how can tax collectors can control that?
Hessen Bub
09-08-14, 19:09
There is a tax exempt amount. Above that the girls have to pay tax. How to control the girl's income. Good question. Ask the tax authorities. LOL.
HB.
I don't know what the exact rule is, but there is some way that the girls can "pay off" their tax burden for about 20 or 30 euros a day. This will be payed when they pay entry. In a club like Babylon (no entry for girls, but the club takes 10 E for each 30 minutes in a room) you might encounter girls late at night that refuse to go to the room for just 30 minutes since almost the whole 50 euros will in that case be taken by the club and taxes (if they remain sessionless, they don't have to pay the tax).
Again, I don't know how this workd exactly, but I know that most of the Romanian girls pay this one time fee. I do believe German girls (or girls that live in Germant permanently) are more likely to pay normal income tax, must be some benefit to it.
Hessen Bub
09-08-14, 21:10
That is a rumor. The 25 or 30 are just an advance payment and will be accounted against the tax you have to pay. This was done because most girls do not pay any tax at all and so the authorities at least get some tax from the girls. The clubs have to take it in and forward it to the tax department. But it is NOT that the girls only pay the 25 per day and that's it.
If a girl has paid 200 days per 25 and her tax debt is below 5,000 she would even get a refund. If she collects all the receipts which the club would have to give her. And If she does her tax declaration.
HB.
A girl at Artemis (her name is Joyce, some here may know her) told me the 30-euro a day scheme was called the "Berliner Model". Alas, she said, it is not available in all places.
Hessen Bub
09-08-14, 22:35
A girl at Artemis (her name is Joyce, some here may know her) told me the 30-euro a day scheme was called the "Berliner Model". Alas, she said, it is not available in all places.That is exactly what I described. It is also called theüsseldorfer Verfahren.
http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Düsseldorfer_Verfahren.
HB.
There is a tax exempt amount. Above that the girls have to pay tax. How to control the girl's income. Good question. Ask the tax authorities. LOL.
HB.Thanks for your feedbacks guys Yeah it interested me as it is big income for girls and also good target and fair target for tax department as prostitution is legal in Germany.
However, it is hard to control and only 30 euros tax per day is bit too relaxed taxation rate? I mean girls makes up to about 1000 euros a day (for popular girls), some just few hundred.
Hmmm it is interesting topic that I will ask some girls that I am friend with in fkk.
As for Babylon, you talking ones in Austria? The branch in vienna charge 450 euro for half an hour and 150 euro goes to the girls and 300 goes to the club. This is what the girls told me, but it is hard clubs to work in because clients tend to be more demanding and most has some fetish. This is what I have been told.
This tax thing is interesting topic as normally in any nation, tax on legal red light district, gambling, gaming etc are taxed heavily / strictly to make it legal. Especially all the foreign girls working at fkk, I am certain that German authority want to tax them promptly to get some fair return to letting them work in Germany.
But like restaurant / club type business it is hard to tax dept to control it.
Hessen Bub
09-09-14, 06:38
Again: The 30€ are just an advance payment and will be accounted against the tax you have to pay. Which depends on your income.
HB.
Just out of pure interest.
Does girls working in FKK have to pay tax on their income? Like income tax etc.
I mean if sessions are like 50 euro /60 euro right? Do fkk girls have to pay income tax on these?
I would imagine they have to pay tax since it is legal business activities in germany to sell sex in FKK, but how can tax collectors can control that?Sometimes they may want a documented income stream other times not would be my guess.
Apparently this FKLK, Grand Palais set to be open in potsdam is going to be the biggest FKK in Germany.
Hmmm cannot wait for this one! It will be good competition to Artemis.
Will it be like Palace and Oase kinda thing in Berlin?
It supposed to be open this year. But I also hear it is set to open in end of 2015. Which info is the right one I don't know.
Nille Copenhagen
09-09-14, 16:51
Apparently this FKLK, Grand Palais set to be open in potsdam is going to be the biggest FKK in Germany.
Hmmm cannot wait for this one! It will be good competition to Artemis.
Will it be like Palace and Oase kinda thing in Berlin?
It supposed to be open this year. But I also hear it is set to open in end of 2015. Which info is the right one I don't know.The opening day is 15th Oct, be there or be square LOL. I'm going!
It will not be the biggest FKK club, where have you got your info from?
However, it is hard to control and only 30 euros tax per day is bit too relaxed taxation rate? I mean girls makes up to about 1000 euros a day (for popular girls), some just few hundred.It is not in our interest for girls to pay too much taxes, because in the end we end up paying. Second, as you say yourself, some girls barely break even so the system should not be too hard on them. After all, the FKK already pays taxes, so our money is taxed to some extent. Last but not least, the authorities set up such a system to enable wandering girls to pay taxes. Otherwise go send a tax return to a Rumanian girl who works 3 months in Germany, 3 months in Turkey etc. With weeks of holiday in Rumania in between.
I differ with what Hessen Bub says about the 30 euros being only an advance payment. If you read the linked website below (in German), it says that in practice girls who pay 30 euros will no longer be bothered. Again, pragmatism prevails.
Solo Traveler
09-09-14, 19:24
it says that in practice girls who pay 30 euros will no longer be bothered.Right, I don't think the tax authorities have the ability to keep so many eyes on those foreign working girls (with Romanians being the majority).
I think that "the girls pay 30 Euros for tax per day, and that's it, no one will bother them again" sounds more practical and real.
Besides, the fact that the working girls (in Sharks, as far as I know) pay 95 Euros as entrance fee per day strengthens this viewpoint.
(Extra 15 Euros if she wants to sleep in the Sharks' dorm next door at that night, but this is off topic.).
I didn't know why they have to pay such an amount as their entrance fee.
Now, maybe the "one-time 30 Euros tax" is exactly the answer!
We customers pay 65 Euros as entrance fee to get in the club. (It's actually a one-day ticket by their German definition of "TagesKarte").
For the club, the working girls are also customers to the club, so, logically, the working girls should also pay exactly 65 Euros as their entrance fee.
However, the German government wants the working girls to pay 30 Euros as tax, so the girls end up paying 65+30=95 Euros to the club, if they come and work in the club.
Most working girls (probably except for those German working girls) also sleep in the dorm next door when they are working in Germany. So, they pay 65+30+15=110 Euros every day.
That's actually a big burden for working girls.
They spend 110 Euros before earning any money every day, which means they have to make at last 3 sessions (if 50 Euros each) to make a profit!
They lost 110 Euros from their pocket before getting any customer, which may explain why some girls always desperately beg customers to take her for at least 1 hour or take extras such as CIM or COB.
So, if a girl gets a total amount of 150 Euros from the customers in one day, she actually only makes a profit of 40 Euros.
And don't forget that some working girls may have pimps or other despicable characters behind their backs, who may then take away more than 50% of her profit.
Every time I think of how poor those working girls really are, and maybe I should stop visiting those P4 P places, these kind of ideas only last for maybe 1 minute.
After 1 minute, my brain automatically keep fantasizing and planning my future sexcation in the German FKK clubs.
The opening day is 15th Oct, be there or be square LOL. I'm going!
It will not be the biggest FKK club, where have you got your info from?I heard it from some girls at Artemis. They told me the biggest one, but maybe it is one of the biggest is what they mean. I saw few photos and it seems big though.
As for opening date, I googled it and I arrived to their facebook page and there are few videos, and in this videos, if you look closely, it mentioned opening in 2015. But I also heard it is opening this year in October. So I was wondering, I got feeling it may take a year or two, but selections of girls would be more wider and thus it will have better line up than Artemis. I hope it will have many younger girls around 20 years old. This visit to artemis I realized that line up is getting old. Like 25 years old up. Even older.
As for tax, it interested me mainly because I just wondered and also I see girls outside fkk sometimes like escort kinda thing (private one), but always these girls always ask high prices, so I needed reasons to put down the price and tax would be one more good reason for me to lower her demanded price) but if it is 30 euro. Hmmmm that don't make that much different; But it is fair system for hard reputated German tax authorities, I thought they are much tougher when collecting tax.
Every time I think of how poor those working girls really are, and maybe I should stop visiting those P4 P places, these kind of ideas only last for maybe 1 minute.When I become friend with some of these FKK girls like exchange real name, meet them outside, mobile number etc. I feel the same way as you do, but instead I pay up as that will help them the most. It is of course within reasonable rate based on supply and demand, but I pay up to show my appreciation as some of these girls are actually good hearted girls and the situation put them to the work they do and mostly not by their will. Paying is the best way I think.
During my FKK tour a few weeks ago, a couple of GT girls mentioned to me that they slept at the club. I do not know if they paid extra for this, or whether it is just a way for the club to have girls available from opening time, but it made me think.
One girl mentioned that we were sessioning in 'her' room, I. E. Where she slept at night. She also mentioned that she was cold at night. Another girl also told me (without my inquiry) that she slept in one of the rooms with another girl, but that she was also cold at night.
I know that Villa Vertigo offers this at a premium fee, but has anyone been successful at negotiating an overnight stay IN the club? It certainly would be nice to wake up in the morning curled up with a lovely girl or even better, two. And it would certainly beat spending some money on a local hotel (IBIS, Mercure, etc) for a few hours sleep until the club re-opens.
Maybe there is a regulatory issue, or maybe there is an issue about monitoring against unruly men or something that prevents this.
Most working girls (probably except for those German working girls) also sleep in the dorm next door when they are working in Germany. So, they pay 65+30+15=110 Euros every day.
Outside the room, the time between sessions is sometimes difficult to manage at some clubs. Food, sauna, hottub, girl-watching help fill the time.
In between sex events during a session, you can always talk, kiss, cuddle etc. , but if she is receptive I just take my time and give her DATY to try and give her the most mind-blowing orgasm that I can generate from her. Some are truly appreciative of the effort, taking the pressure off of getting the guy off on his next orgasm.
Hi guys,
I wanted to ask you and know generally from everyone here, when you guys go for an extended lets say 1 hour or One and Half Hours or two Hours just in case (This is for people who cum) once you have cum after your first round and you are still inside the room waiting for the second session to start what do you guys do in between times with the girl? Just chat with her? Cuddle here by making her sit in your lap? Or just sleep? What exactly? Can anyone Share his experiences? I am very curious to know what do most guys do between time in between sessions?
Vito Corleone
09-10-14, 16:29
During my FKK tour a few weeks ago, a couple of GT girls mentioned to me that they slept at the club. I do not know if they paid extra for this, or whether it is just a way for the club to have girls available from opening time, but it made me think.
One girl mentioned that we were sessioning in 'her' room, I. E. Where she slept at night. She also mentioned that she was cold at night. Another girl also told me (without my inquiry) that she slept in one of the rooms with another girl, but that she was also cold at night.
I know that Villa Vertigo offers this at a premium fee, but has anyone been successful at negotiating an overnight stay IN the club? It certainly would be nice to wake up in the morning curled up with a lovely girl or even better, two. And it would certainly beat spending some money on a local hotel (IBIS, Mercure, etc) for a few hours sleep until the club re-opens.
Maybe there is a regulatory issue, or maybe there is an issue about monitoring against unruly men or something that prevents this.Many girls do sleep at the club like GT, ACA, LR, VV & etc. I think in the NRW, VV is the only place a client is able to stay & sleep overnight. Not really sure if there is any advantage paying a premium to sleep there for a couple hrs then pay the entry fee again. I guess it can be convenient if you do not have a car. Not sure if there are any places to stay in Grefrath. I believe you can stay with a girl overnight. It has been offered to me in the past & I heard rumors. Not sure the costs.
GT is located in the middle of nowhere, but there are many options for you to stay the night. GT is not possible, but there are a couple places just walking distance from the club.
During my FKK tour a few weeks ago, a couple of GT girls mentioned to me that they slept at the club. I do not know if they paid extra for this, or whether it is just a way for the club to have girls available from opening time, but it made me think.
One girl mentioned that we were sessioning in 'her' room, I. E. Where she slept at night. She also mentioned that she was cold at night. Another girl also told me (without my inquiry) that she slept in one of the rooms with another girl, but that she was also cold at night.
I know that Villa Vertigo offers this at a premium fee, but has anyone been successful at negotiating an overnight stay IN the club? It certainly would be nice to wake up in the morning curled up with a lovely girl or even better, two. And it would certainly beat spending some money on a local hotel (IBIS, Mercure, etc) for a few hours sleep until the club re-opens.
Maybe there is a regulatory issue, or maybe there is an issue about monitoring against unruly men or something that prevents this.In Artemis, girls sleep at top floor, rooms are either 2 or 3 girls per room no single room and they have to check in and pay entry at 11 AM.
It is very efficient system for girls as it also provide all that they need for this line of work and most importantly the place provide girls with security as there are some creepy clients who like to follow girls etc. I hear some freaky staff from girls who once lived outside of FKK. So apparently it is safer for some girls to live in fkk, but living in same place as they work with this kinda jobs need solid strong mentality, I respect some of these girls as they got more ball than some of us men.
According to their official (facebook page, FKK Grand Palais is opening at end of 2015.
Scroll down and you'll see Grand opening end of 2015.
I heard the opening is October 2014 as well, so which info is true? Has it been delayed or it has been pushed forward?
And where is the club in Potsdam? Is it near Berlin Westkreuz or is it more close to Potsdam? I hope there is S bahn near by.
Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/grandpalaisclub
Nille Copenhagen
09-12-14, 13:37
According to their official (facebook page, FKK Grand Palais is opening at end of 2015.
Scroll down and you'll see Grand opening end of 2015.
I heard the opening is October 2014 as well, so which info is true? Has it been delayed or it has been pushed forward?
And where is the club in Potsdam? Is it near Berlin Westkreuz or is it more close to Potsdam? I hope there is S bahn near by.
Here is the link:
https://www.facebook.com/grandpalaisclubThe opening is 15th Oct. I'm going to check it out.
Mango Head
09-12-14, 18:19
I spent the night at VV once about a year and a half ago. I believe it cost 100 Euro, and I have a very vague and probably unreliable memory that this included the next day (a Sunday) entry. But I honestly cannot say for certain.
One of the girls I was hot and heavy with offered to stay the night with me. I declined, so cannot give you a price range. She claimed to be scared of ghosts and wanted to sleep with someone! But I never even asked whether there would be a charge. I'm almost certain there would have been. So while I can't give a price range, I do know this is possible.
Overall, it was a fine experience, and meant I did not have to worry about having a few drinks and staying till closing, followed by a drive on small dark roads in a foreign country. Plus, I got to sleep in one of the huge and comfortable upstairs bedrooms. My only negative memory of the experience was getting hustled out of bed at 8 am So they could clean, and then lounging around the house staying out of the way of the cleaning staff until opening time. I should have gone out to breakfast or something, but was too unorganized and lazy.
They let me raid the coffee machine to my heart's content.
I know that Villa Vertigo offers this at a premium fee, but has anyone been successful at negotiating an overnight stay IN the club? It certainly would be nice to wake up in the morning curled up with a lovely girl or even better, two. And it would certainly beat spending some money on a local hotel (IBIS, Mercure, etc) for a few hours sleep until the club re-opens.
The opening is 15th Oct. I'm going to check it out.Just got back from Germany a week ago, so I got to wait till next year (I live in Tokyo), but so, it is opening next month then.
They have not done much of a promotion as even girls at Artemis did not know about this FKK Grand Palais, but I guess new FKK do marketing itself to us mongers. Aren't we like hunters.
I hope it will be good as it is 20000 m2 and the pics looks nice, it may need one year to get good lineup though.
That's actually a big burden for working girls.
They spend 110 Euros before earning any money every day, which means they have to make at last 3 sessions (if 50 Euros each) to make a profit!
They lost 110 Euros from their pocket before getting any customerYep, that's why if prostitution were really "free" girls could work from home just like any other service provider. And that's why it is sometimes better for an activity to be illegal but largerly ignored, rather than heavily legalized. Just a thought.
Solo Traveler
09-15-14, 21:23
Yep, that's why if prostitution were really "free" girls could work from home just like any other service provider. And that's why it is sometimes better for an activity to be illegal but largerly ignored, rather than heavily legalized. Just a thought.Sorry, I don't understand you.
Why do you think that it will be better if prostitution is illegal?
The FKK clubs are exactly the results their government's idea, "prostitution should be legalized and the laws concerned should be enforced strictly".
For us mongers / punters, we should all support and be grateful for that idea as well.
Why do you think that it will be better if prostitution is illegal?I think I wrote: "sometimes better. To be illegal but largerly ignored, rather than heavily legalized". All the pussy havens in SA and SEA are countries where prostitution is illegal.
SwingerLover
09-16-14, 19:41
The FKK clubs are exactly the results their government's idea, "prostitution should be legalized and the laws concerned should be enforced strictly".
For us mongers / punters, we should all support and be grateful for that idea as well.
I think I wrote: "sometimes better. To be illegal but largerly ignored, rather than heavily legalized". All the pussy havens in SA and SEA are countries where prostitution is illegal.I think you should have used the term "heavily legislated" instead.
And while I agree with the idea that prostitutes should not be forced into illegality by restrictive legislation, I'm most certainly against any legislation that will allow local authorities to run amok at their own discretion, particularly in Germany!
I think FKK is the best system I have ever experience and I have been mongering around the globe, so I am happy camper with FKK system.
Nothing can be perfect.
Solo Traveler
09-20-14, 22:17
To Hessen FKK clubs veterans.
In your experience and for your prediction, is the price of the FKK clubs in Hessen going to rise up or maintain the same in the next 10 years?
Now, 2014, the price and rules of Hessen Big 5.
Eintritt: 65 EUR-75 EUR.
Standard Price: 50 EUR for every 30 minutes (including kissing+BBBJ+DATY+coverd sex with multiple positions).
I am planning to have my future sexcations in the FKK Clubs (Hessen) for the next 10 years.
I just set up a new bank account for my future sexcation fund, and now I am calculating the approximate amount of money I have to put in to it.
Thanks!
To Hessen FKK clubs veterans.
In your experience and for your prediction, is the price of the FKK clubs in Hessen going to rise up or maintain the same in the next 10 years?
Now, 2014, the price and rules of Hessen Big 5.
Eintritt: 65 EUR-75 EUR.
Standard Price: 50 EUR for every 30 minutes (including kissing+BBBJ+DATY+coverd sex with multiple positions).
I am planning to have my future sexcations in the FKK Clubs (Hessen) for the next 10 years.
I just set up a new bank account for my future sexcation fund, and now I am calculating the approximate amount of money I have to put in to it.
Thanks!Just my humble opinion:
I think price will go up as years goes by.
The reason being girls home nations prices are going up as middle class grows. (for foreign girls).
Also, I do notice the price rise in Germany as well in general for real estate, rent, food etc. , so I imagine price will only rise as years goes by.
However, sunny side is that there are more and more FKK clubs opening up, so more competition, so that may affect the rise in price range to minimum?
Either way, FKK is still reasonably priced and for me it is even cheap comparison to other countries I went to, so I got no complain, but it will be nice if they improve the food a bit because I often go outside to eat. That being said if price rise lead to more nicer looking girls flowing into FKK, then I would want the price to rise in reasonable range.
The euro is likely to go down from now on, so for people who earn dollars things should become better. Don't underestimate the likelyhood of a feminist coalition against Germany on this though. Other countries (France, Holland) are cracking down. This produces a further prostitution boom in Germany but at the same time Germany stands out as the villain. Expect more tales of sex-trafficking in Germany. Expect more tales of Germany being "invaded" by sex-tourists from neighbouring countries, and this being unworthy of an industrial giant such as Germany.
Likewise, one girl at Colloseum told me housewives had picketed FKK Paradise in Saarbrücken. This means German women are no different from women elsewhere: women don't want prostitutes to come and cheapen the price of housewife pussy.
So it is best to beat the iron while it's hot. This may not last.
The euro is likely to go down from now on, so for people who earn dollars things should become better. Don't underestimate the likelyhood of a feminist coalition against Germany on this though. Other countries (France, Holland) are cracking down. This produces a further prostitution boom in Germany but at the same time Germany stands out as the villain. Expect more tales of sex-trafficking in Germany. Expect more tales of Germany being "invaded" by sex-tourists from neighbouring countries, and this being unworthy of an industrial giant such as Germany.
Likewise, one girl at Colloseum told me housewives had picketed FKK Paradise in Saarbrcken. This means German women are no different from women elsewhere: women don't want prostitutes to come and cheapen the price of housewife pussy.
So it is best to beat the iron while it's hot. This may not last.I welcome weaken Euro as I earn in Japanese Yen.
It was paradise for me during 2011 to 2012 with strong yen era, it was like 1 euro=100 yen Now due to Japanese central bank printing. It is 1 euro=140 yen. 40% rise in price, but still it is reasonable pricing for me as mongering in Tokyo is pricey if you want to get good quality girls (which I am still willing to pay for).
As for feminist thing. It is alarming, but I doubt if German authority will change FKK system drastically UNLESS something bad happen in FKK (big crime in FKK etc.). German is very liberal state beside being very serious at the same time, good contrast huh?
In the worst case scenario, we still have Swiss German part and Austria for mongering!
It is true that FKK is the enemy of German marriage system it is addictive for husband and it is good way for house wives to make money while husband are not at home during business hours.
UltraHappy
09-25-14, 01:46
American mongers rejoice!
The current Euro / USD exchange rate has now just dipped below 1. 28. Analysts predict that it will drop much lower:
"We recommend staying short EUR / USD in spot," analysts at Barclays wrote in a note to clients, adding they have revised their 12-month euro / dollar forecast to $1. 10 from $1. 25.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/us-markets-forex-idUSKCN0HJ00P20140924.
That sure would be sweet if the Euro dropped another 18 points in 1 year! Huge discount to my mongering budget!
American mongers rejoice!
The current Euro / USD exchange rate has now just dipped below 1. 28. Analysts predict that it will drop much lower:
"We recommend staying short EUR / USD in spot," analysts at Barclays wrote in a note to clients, adding they have revised their 12-month euro / dollar forecast to $1. 10 from $1. 25.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/us-markets-forex-idUSKCN0HJ00P20140924.
That sure would be sweet if the Euro dropped another 18 points in 1 year! Huge discount to my mongering budget!So what's driving it down? The flat economy and or the French overspending?
UltraHappy
09-26-14, 01:25
So what's driving it down? The flat economy and or the French overspending?Weak Euro economy means low growth. Euro bank is now instituting easing measures, increasing the monetary supply in response to spur growth in the Euro zone economy. The combined various easing measures by the central bank causes the Euro to devalue.
Same thing happened to the US dollar during the recession. The Fed Reserve was printing billions to spur the economy into growth and that caused the dollar to plummet. Now that the US economy is improving, the Fed has dramatically scaled back on its pumping money into the economy. Now the Fed's talk is not IF they are going to raise interests but just a matter of when. This correspondingly strengthens the dollar.
It's actually more complicated than that of course, but that's the basic gist of it.
Step 1. Weak economy. Step 2. Central Bank says holy shit. We got to do something. Need to spur growth. Deflationary economy = really bad. Must avoid at all costs! Let's print money, lower interest rates, make more money available in low or zero cost loans to the big banks. Step 3. Value of that currency goes down due to more currency being available (supply and demand).
I'm sure that there are some real finance types here that could improve on my cave man explanation.
Trans Atlantic
09-26-14, 01:58
American mongers rejoice!
The current Euro / USD exchange rate has now just dipped below 1. 28. Analysts predict that it will drop much lower:
"We recommend staying short EUR / USD in spot," analysts at Barclays wrote in a note to clients, adding they have revised their 12-month euro / dollar forecast to $1. 10 from $1. 25.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/us-markets-forex-idUSKCN0HJ00P20140924.
That sure would be sweet if the Euro dropped another 18 points in 1 year! Huge discount to my mongering budget!Been looking at the rate frequently for past six months. Might have to make another trip or two this year. LOL.
Vito Corleone
09-26-14, 03:02
So what's driving it down? The flat economy and or the French overspending?GT's door policy!
Hessen Bub
09-26-14, 22:37
Expect more tales of Germany being "invaded" by sex-tourists from neighbouring countries,
.Go to Oase or Palace and you will see they are being invaded by sex tourists from the States, Italy, Asia. Same for Artemis. Or GT. Full of Dutch. This is not a tale at all.
HB.
Weak Euro economy means low growth. Euro bank is now instituting easing measures, increasing the monetary supply in response to spur growth in the Euro zone economy. The combined various easing measures by the central bank causes the Euro to devalue.
Same thing happened to the US dollar during the recession. The Fed Reserve was printing billions to spur the economy into growth and that caused the dollar to plummet. Now that the US economy is improving, the Fed has dramatically scaled back on its pumping money into the economy. Now the Fed's talk is not IF they are going to raise interests but just a matter of when. This correspondingly strengthens the dollar.
It's actually more complicated than that of course, but that's the basic gist of it.
Step 1. Weak economy. Step 2. Central Bank says holy shit. We got to do something. Need to spur growth. Deflationary economy = really bad. Must avoid at all costs! Let's print money, lower interest rates, make more money available in low or zero cost loans to the big banks. Step 3. Value of that currency goes down due to more currency being available (supply and demand).
I'm sure that there are some real finance types here that could improve on my cave man explanation.Euro is beautiful ideology, but it won't work in reality (at least for long time).
However, this is good for flying in mongers who exchange their foreign money to Euro.
I spend about 10000 Euro per my 12 to 15 days FKK sex trip every year, so exchange rate makes big difference.
The euro is likely to go down from now on, so for people who earn dollars things should become better. Don't underestimate the likelyhood of a feminist coalition against Germany on this though. Other countries (France, Holland) are cracking down. This produces a further prostitution boom in Germany but at the same time Germany stands out as the villain. Expect more tales of sex-trafficking in Germany. Expect more tales of Germany being "invaded" by sex-tourists from neighbouring countries, and this being unworthy of an industrial giant such as Germany.
Likewise, one girl at Colloseum told me housewives had picketed FKK Paradise in Saarbrcken. This means German women are no different from women elsewhere: women don't want prostitutes to come and cheapen the price of housewife pussy.
So it is best to beat the iron while it's hot. This may not last.They're Germans. They will find a logical solution.
Prices won't go up, because payments to the girls are already high as they keep all of the money and don't pay tax.
I've been doing the FKK scene now for roughly 10 years, have probably done over 25 trips. It sure has changed since I started checking out the scene. You used to find some very attractive natural blonde Russian and Polish girls at all the clubs, now its Romanian's with dyed blonde hair. I did the partytreff and the pay upfront clubs years ago when those clubs offered quality, but when that quality started disappearing I had to find other clubs to visit. I've done a few visits to the red light districts but every one seemed to have tons of stairs to navigate and the service paled to the clubs. I remember the 4 days where I did GT 4 days in a row, an amazing lineup of hot young chicks who gave great service at reasonable prices, FKK cocoon just south of Acapulco (no more) also had a nice selection as well. Sadly Cocoon is no more and the young talent at GT has grown older and many can still be found occasionally working there. Samya is pretty close to what it was way back when but gone are the local German girls like Honey who used to make the visit memorable. I then ventured south to Frankfurt and enjoyed the newfound talent at Oase and World, many of my favorites have come and gone. And the last couple of trips it seems like the girls who made my list are numbering less and less. And some of those girls refuse to take my money due to size issue's, I might be able to see them once and then they cut off service. And its gotten worse over the years since many girls keep working at the same clubs. I do love it though when a girl isn't making much money but still refuse's me but her friend has no problems seeing me as a regular. All depends on how much they want that 50 euro's.
Then I visited Thailand and have to say Bangkok and Pattaya are drawing me more than the German scene. Its not the girls, thai's and romanians have 'similiar' feature's (hair, tits, pussy). Its the fact that there's so many girls in one area compared to having to drive all over Germany to visit different clubs. Funny thing is I never got one complaint from any Thai girl on the size issue, they took it and many kept coming back for more. And for the same amount of money, the hotels in Thailand offer so much more than their German counterparts. And I had so many Thai girls spending hours with me compared to the German scene where they're onto their next fuck. So much more to see and do in Thailand than the German clubs have to offer at a much lower rate, plus airfare (for a future trip) is $200 less going to Bangkok than Frankfurt (go figure). You can get more sex in Germany but Thailand offers more to do outside the clubs. But I still do love Germany, just not as much as I did when I first started. Sad to say but I might be limiting my trips to Germany in the future and heading a little bit farther in my travels for some asian fun.
Hessen Bub
09-28-14, 14:36
I thai's and romanians have 'similiar' feature's (hair, tits, pussy). Most women I have fucked had hair, tits, pussy.
HB.
I know there are many asian posters on this board, I'm sure some will comment to my post without saying they are asian. But it would be interesting to know if there's a draw to Germany for asians looking for non asian sex workers?
Then I visited Thailand and have to say Bangkok and Pattaya are drawing me more than the German scene. Its not the girls, thai's and romanians have 'similiar' feature's (hair, tits, pussy). Its the fact that there's so many girls in one area compared to having to drive all over Germany to visit different clubs. Funny thing is I never got one complaint from any Thai girl on the size issue, they took it and many kept coming back for more. So much more to see and do in Thailand. But I still do love Germany.This sums up how I feel about Germany versus Rio de Janeiro. I would say that Thailand is even more interesting and exotic than Brazil is, but I rank Brazil higher because I like the Latinas and the White girls over the Thai pooyings and Asian women. That's also the reason why I rank European destinations over Thailand in general. For me, an anal lover, Brazil is a solid number 1. Germany and Europe number 2. And Thailand number 3 (although they do have some blonde, Russian tutes standing on the street). You should check out Phuket next time just to get a different pace and feel from Bangkok and Pattaya.
PussyLiccker
09-28-14, 15:07
Yes, there is like a punter looking for girls that are exotic or the kind they don't typically see. I wish I started punting back when you started or when PHG just opened up. What a loss.
Yes, there is like a punter looking for girls that are exotic or the kind they don't typically see.I can see that some do this but that wasn't the reason why I chose Thailand. I actually had little experience with asian working girls save a few. What I loved about Thailand was that it offered all the stuff I do at home, watching a variety of sports (not just soccer), playing pool, drinking beer, grabbing a massage, hanging around by the pool (actually not so much of this). And having a thousand cute asian girls trying to get my attention can't hurt. I found out I could fly to Thailand on 5 k extra airmiles AND still have a stopover in Germany (now gone).
I can see that some do this but that wasn't the reason why I chose Thailand. I actually had little experience with asian working girls save a few. What I loved about Thailand was that it offered all the stuff I do at home, watching a variety of sports (not just soccer), playing pool, drinking beer, grabbing a massage, hanging around by the pool (actually not so much of this). And having a thousand cute asian girls trying to get my attention can't hurt. I found out I could fly to Thailand on 5 k extra airmiles AND still have a stopover in Germany (now gone).I just wish to make some contribution. In my opinion just for sex purposes Germany is always a better option but if both were same distance to me I would definitely make a %50-50 in my choices. Now acutally my score is 3-1 Germany. Because of distance and price of flight tickets. Unfortunately I don't think for physical means Thai and romanian girls can be comparable because Thai girls are small size but Romanian are large size. So Romanians are chocolate ice cream but russians are lemon ice cream so thai is the small cookies. Thailand is a ten times funnier place than Germany. Interesting Fantastic exotice. Food are 10 times better than Germany but Germany has all the safety and hygen points.
Just my opinion.
Regards.
Note: Looks like I will never be able to try Rio because of incredibly expensive flight tickets.
I just wish to make some contribution. In my opinion just for sex purposes Germany is always a better option but if both were same distance to me I would definitely make a %50-50 in my choices. Now acutally my score is 3-1 Germany. Because of distance and price of flight tickets....Germany has all the safety and hygen points. Can I ask what general area you are from and the price of your airfare? I'm from the state's and found airfare to Germany going for $1,200 (I'm sure it will start moving up shortly). Also found airfare to Bangkok for under a grand ($800 USD in Seattle if anyone lives out that way). So from a dollar standpoint, Thailand would be the cheaper option when you can cut out car rentals and club fee's. And for any United semi frequent fliers out there, the new airmile program going into play next March will reduce your rewards by 75% unless your an elite member.
As to safety, your correct that the club scene protects you from possible harm, not many muggers will pay entrance. But I found the hygiene to be pretty high with all the Thai girls I was with, every single one took a shower before sex, more than I can say with many of the FKK girls.
Yes, there is like a punter looking for girls that are exotic or the kind they don't typically see.Germany, besides being safe and regulated, also offers the cheapest price points if one has no issues with white European women. I believe East Asian punters can find Russian hookers in their home countries but they probably have to pay a premium.
If a punter gets robbed in a third world country can they report it to.
PussyLiccker
09-28-14, 22:30
Germany, besides being safe and regulated, also offers the cheapest price points if one has no issues with white European women. I believe East Asian punters can find Russian hookers in their home countries but they probably have to pay a premium.
If a punter gets robbed in a third world country can they report it to.Yes, the pricing also. Much more expensive for the Pay scene at their home country for lousy service.
Germany, besides being safe and regulated, also offers the cheapest price points .I'm pretty sure my dollar goes farther in Thailand, the euro even farther. I was paying 40 euro's to a smoking hot asian who stayed overnight and I found my hotel room to be pretty safe and secure (and more private) as I was enjoying myself. The biggest problem was getting rid of the girls afterwards. I was even finding gems on beach road for 20 euro's who would come to my hotel anytime I needed a booty call. Germany is amazing though in the fact the sex starts at the drop of a hat, there's no 'getting to know the girl' first. Where else can you walk up to a girl and a minute later be receiving a BJ from the girl? That's why on future trips I'd love to be able to combine both destinations into one trip, easily done since many flights to asia land in Frankfurt. You just have to pay the change fee to extend the layover.
I know there are many asian posters on this board, I'm sure some will comment to my post without saying they are asian. But it would be interesting to know if there's a draw to Germany for asians looking for non asian sex workers?I'd say punters from East Asia only look for white European women. Tyra, this model-thin black girl with a disproportionately big ass at Palace, once told me about the customers she sees. She explained that men from China ignore her altogether. But once a while she said a younger, trendier Japanese men were open-minded and curious about her.
It sort of makes sense, why would one travel so far for girls that they can find in their home countries. I mean I doubt a Japanese tourist would travel all the way Europe just to eat at a sushi restaurant in Germany. One would probably look for proper German food and beer.
Mr. Ho usually writes about how much he admires the Germans with the practicality with which they've create a legalized, taxed, and regulated sex industry. He seems to know about the Tokyo scene. He's the only one I can think of who actively contributes. Most guys are anonymous about their race or nationality. There are also many posters who have explained that they are Asians living in a Western country. Presumably both sets of Asian men can find European sex workers in their home countries, but I doubt they pay the equivalent of 50 EUR per half hour.
I'd venture to say that there are still more Chinese and Japanese men going to Thailand than Germany. Probably because its geographically closer. Or because it is cheaper. Or they haven't discovered what a FKK is yet. I do like hearing about Thailand and I find it appealing that you can take the girl back to your hotel with you at a reasonable rate. And she can she be a tour guide for you at all the local spots, food, and that you can. But for professional and personal reasons, I can't go off the grid for extended periods of time. Certainly not too Thailand which is known as a sex destination. For the most part, Germany is only known as a sex destination among hobbyists.
Many old-school Germans told me that back in the day, Czech Republic was like a sexual playground. But that they did have run-ins with locals who were sensitive about the amount of sex tourists flooding their borders. I think men are for the most part competitive. In most cultures, men are seen as providers, so perhaps the Czech men felt some shame that they could not provide, and that their women were forced to resort to such work.
I'm pretty sure my dollar goes farther in Thailand, the euro even farther. I was paying 40 euro's to a smoking hot asian who stayed overnight and I found my hotel room to be pretty safe and secure (and more private) as I was enjoying myself. The biggest problem was getting rid of the girls afterwards. I was even finding gems on beach road for 20 euro's who would come to my hotel anytime I needed a booty call. Germany is amazing though in the fact the sex starts at the drop of a hat, there's no 'getting to know the girl' first. Where else can you walk up to a girl and a minute later be receiving a BJ from the girl? That's why on future trips I'd love to be able to combine both destinations into one trip, easily done since many flights to asia land in Frankfurt. You just have to pay the change fee to extend the layover.
I meant that Germany offers the cheapest price points for white European women. I mean I am sure Ukraine can be much cheaper, but more hassle, unless one is proficient in Russian. I've heard that Thailand has Russian and Colombian girls, but they are considerably more expensive than the Thai girls.
Is the Thai sex scene controlled by gangsters? It could be that petty thieves are too afraid to rob tourists, because they fear repercussions from gangsters. In most tourist destinations, they under-report crime statistics so tourists don't become afraid of visiting. I wonder if Ukraine or Romania would ever actively promote / sponsor such businesses. Actually Moldova is the poorest country in Europe.
PussyLiccker
09-28-14, 23:59
I'm pretty sure my dollar goes farther in Thailand, the euro even farther. I was paying 40 euro's to a smoking hot asian who stayed overnight and I found my hotel room to be pretty safe and secure (and more private) as I was enjoying myself. The biggest problem was getting rid of the girls afterwards. I was even finding gems on beach road for 20 euro's who would come to my hotel anytime I needed a booty call. Germany is amazing though in the fact the sex starts at the drop of a hat, there's no 'getting to know the girl' first. Where else can you walk up to a girl and a minute later be receiving a BJ from the girl? That's why on future trips I'd love to be able to combine both destinations into one trip, easily done since many flights to asia land in Frankfurt. You just have to pay the change fee to extend the layover.This is what I want, but with European type women or latinas. Can't speak Spanish.
This is what I want, but with European type women or latinas. Can't speak Spanish.Start making Spanish, Russian or Romanian friends.
Solo Traveler
09-30-14, 21:16
I know there are many asian posters on this board, I'm sure some will comment to my post without saying they are asian. But it would be interesting to know if there's a draw to Germany for asians looking for non asian sex workers?
I'd say punters from East Asia only look for white European women.
Most guys are anonymous about their race or nationality. There are also many posters who have explained that they are Asians living in a Western country. Presumably both sets of Asian men can find European sex workers in their home countries, but I doubt they pay the equivalent of 50 EUR per half hour.First, I am not quite sure how to describe what kind of East Asian I actually am.
I was born, grew up, and live in East Asia for most part of my life. My life is in East Asia, and I am of East Asian descent, so all these facts make me an East Asian by definition.
However, I am actually from a very Westernized environment. The environment I grew up in, the education I received, and the lifestyle I owned were actually not so different from those in North America. I am actually not so different from people who were literally born and grew up in North America. That's why I am sometimes upset and offended by people who automatically assume that I will think differently and act strangely simply based on my East Asian face, when I visit Western countries.
Okay, anyway, back to this topic, I am a sex tourist from East Asia.
And just like McAdonis said, yes, I was looking for White Caucasian / European women exclusively, after I got tired of and lost my sexual interest in East Asian women.
After I started to search for my potential sex vacation destinations, I guess I fell into the thought that a place with legalized sex industry would be safer for a foreign tourist. I still cannot make sure this kind of thought is a truth or a misconception till this day. It was just a simple thought. If I got beaten up or robbed in a legalized sex destination, at least I could go to the local police and explained why I was there without being embarrassed or got frowned at.
I made my list, which includes Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, and Germany.
In the end, Germany stands out because of its exclusive FKK clubs.
I was deeply fascinated by the idea that I can eat, drink, swim in the pool, relax in the sauna, and take a nap on a lounger under the sun with all naked Caucasian / European women around me. What's more, I can take any of them to the room, which takes 50 Euros to get Kissing+BBBJ+covered sex for 30 minutes.
In Australia, New Zealand, and the Netherlands, they have Red Light Districts, normal brothels without food and other relaxing facilities, escorts, etc. Nothing special actually.
I mean, all those pussies and the sex process may not be any different or special in all places above.
But when you combine food, drinks, sauna, swimming pool, outdoor playgrounds, and naked working women all together, that's something very different and special!
And the FKK clubs only exist in Germany (and some other German-speaking countries)! That's why I chose Germany as my "Caucasian / European women-fucking sex vacation" destination.
The FKK clubs turn out to be one of the most mind-blowing mongering experience I've ever had in my life, and I am so fascinated that I've flown to Germany to have my sex vacation simply for the FKK clubs for 4 times (from East Asia; over 12 hour flight).
Finally, I think the real reason which make FKK clubs so different and special to me is that the FKK clubs fulfill my secret fantasies of watching or even having naked women hanging around with me in the restaurant, at the bar, in the swimming pool, in the sauna, in the outdoor areas etc.
Well, this is just me, and my personal experience and opinions.
Can I ask what general area you are from and the price of your airfare? I'm from the state's and found airfare to Germany going for $1,200 (I'm sure it will start moving up shortly). Also found airfare to Bangkok for under a grand ($800 USD in Seattle if anyone lives out that way). So from a dollar standpoint, Thailand would be the cheaper option when you can cut out car rentals and club fee's. And for any United semi frequent fliers out there, the new airmile program going into play next March will reduce your rewards by 75% unless your an elite member.
As to safety, your correct that the club scene protects you from possible harm, not many muggers will pay entrance. But I found the hygiene to be pretty high with all the Thai girls I was with, every single one took a shower before sex, more than I can say with many of the FKK girls.I am from Istanbul / Turkey. Prices are about 1000-1200 USD to Banghok. 1200-1500 to Brasil and 200-500 Euro to Germany.
I just want to expand the discussion and comparison for Rio.
So I think Thailand-Brasil-Germany are top three points in the world now for sex travels. I think for example Dominique Republic or maybe Vietnam is another category.
We don't need visa for Brasil and I wish to visit there so much but I still couldn't. I had maybe 15 sex travel. Moreover it takes a 13,5 hours flight from here to Sao Paolu and an additional 1-2 hours to Rio so it makes a 15-16 hours flight for me. Also about 12 hours to Baghok.
So the point here what will I find there? I think for a person who is trying to decide where to go must ask himself which type of women you like? For me of course as you can guess easily blondes are very attractive. Especially I like brunette blondes and they are found much in for example East Ukraine. Also I don't like childish innocent look. I know the taste of Thai woman. They are very submissive and friendly. But this is not attracting me too much. Polish girls for example are my other favourite. For the hygen point yes I also never have sex with a stinky Thai girl. The girls are clean. They are loosing points because of facilities and streets which is full of trash waited under sun for hours. I can never say the very famous massage salons of Banghok are as clean as German FKK's and I think noone can.
If you know a way to buy a cheap flight ticket for Rio and tell us I really appreciate it.
And also some last words for the people trying to make a decision;.
I have in my own country enough and very luxury facilities and great beaches cities near meditarranean and Aegan sea like Antalya or Bodrum. But if I am from Saudi Arabia of course I would prefer to have a one week vacation in Brasil or Pattaya for both girls and sun-beach thing.
A Germany ticket for me can be about 200-500 Euro. 2,5 hours. Also Ukraine is 1,5 hour from here. It's even possible to go Odessa with Ferry from Istanbul (4 hours).
So Rio or Pattaya must do smt more to make me decide for there.
I usually split my vacations and spend one vacation in Antalya and the other one in Germany.
Just my two cents.
Regards.
Banana Boi
09-30-14, 23:51
A Germany ticket for me can be about 200-500 Euro. 2,5 hours.I'd be in Germany every weekend if it only costed 200 euro and took 2.5 hours. I need to move.
Flights to Rio for you next year are in the $1200 area but I did find many flights to Bangkok in the $700 usd range.
I think the two biggest difference in Germany and Thailand is the availability of overnights at a low rate. I could care less if there's garbage on the street as long as my hotel room and the girl I'm spending my time with are clean. And you read of guys saying 'this club has a great party atmosphere' in Germany but in Thailand there's 20 clubs with ten times more girls. Party atmosphere and the selection of girls are two of the biggest draws. But if your looking for just sex then Germany is the destination, its set up for multiple girls per day.
I just want to add boredom of Germany for the people trying to decide. I usually prefer to give one day off when I go there for FKK because when you get in one of them you will make 4 or 5 times maybe 3. And if you are not a member of a special asian race like Mr. Ho,(HE can do 4-5 times every day during a week) you will get tired and the following day a 10 will look like your grandmother in your eyes. So what will you do in Cologne or Fra during your off day? It just makes me depressive.
But my points are still for Germany because the girls you will find on beach road for 20 euro are not even comparable of the ones in FKKs.
Banana,
If you were in a closer country out of Europe you would have to collect a thousand documents to get a schengen visa and if I had a long term multiple schengen visa probably I would have thousands of euro debts. Because I would be in Germany two times per month.
Regards.
Hessen Bub
10-01-14, 21:52
You don't find nothing to do around Cologne or Frankfurt for a non club day? Get informed. There's more to Germany than FKKs. It is not Thailand or Brazil so no beaches (only if you are willing to drive a few hours), but quite a few nice places to visit. Ever been to the Rheingau? Tasted German wine? Visited the castles? Took a ship cruise down the Rhine river? Heidelberg? Mainz? Wiesbaden?
HB.
You don't find nothing to do around Cologne or Frankfurt for a non club day? Get informed. There's more to Germany than FKKs. It is not Thailand or Brazil so no beaches (only if you are willing to drive a few hours), but quite a few nice places to visit. Ever been to the Rheingau? Tasted German wine? Visited the castles? Took a ship cruise down the Rhine river? Heidelberg? Mainz? Wiesbaden?
HB.Hessen believe me I know the atmosphere. Even the street animals are different in Far East. It's another planet and it's a touristic spot. Designed for tourism. But Germany is for production.
I took the ship on Rhine river.
By the way I like Germany and german people. It's a real pleasure to drive in Autobahn and to seek for FKK's. But Thailand is really different.
Regards.
Hessen Bub
10-02-14, 10:05
But Thailand is really different.
I never said Europe / Germany is like Thailand. It is 100% opposite. Which doesn't mean there's nothing to do besides PaySex and driving fast.
HB.
"boredom of germany"?. a nation with one of the most interesting histories in europe, and which is shaping the future of europe. there is more to germany than production, and even the production is interesting. whether as a tourist or as a european citizen it has many many things of interest. take a day out to see the deutsches historische museum in berlin, read peeling the onion by gunter grass, reflect on the meaning of many monuments to victims of the nazis and russian-backed governments, taste some german wines, go shopping, hiking, watch the german people in town centres. i'm not saying everything is great (the tendency to uniformity and so on), just that there is loads to do.
"boredom of germany"?. a nation with one of the most interesting histories in europe, and which is shaping the future of europe. there is more to germany than production, and even the production is interesting. whether as a tourist or as a european citizen it has many many things of interest. take a day out to see the deutsches historische museum in berlin, read peeling the onion by gunter grass, reflect on the meaning of many monuments to victims of the nazis and russian-backed governments, taste some german wines, go shopping, hiking, watch the german people in town centres. i'm not saying everything is great (the tendency to uniformity and so on), just that there is loads to do.+1. agreed.
imo, germany is almost as good as italy, especially if you are a single guy. sure italy is better if you have family or are taking the old lady. romantic cities like venice. also the food is much better. but most of italy's interesting history is ancient or renaissance period. germany is mostly 20th century, and is easier to relate to, if not far more interesting. there is all the ww2 stuff, plus if you include austria (i know austrians hate getting lumped in with germany, but i'll do it anyway) you get all the classical music. and as a plus, if you are like me, car stuff (bmw, porsche, etc.).
i don't mean to pile on to the other guy. i just wanted to expound on how cool germany is. in italy, you see stuff that the tourist books like lonely planet tell you to see. in germany, you see the stuff that you've always wanted to see.
"boredom of Germany"?.Boredom in the clubs between sessions, not the entire country, compared to Thailand (since I was comparing the two in the first place). In Thailand you can have your session and then be on your way to a new adventure, not just watching the girls walk back and forth trying to drum up business.
+1. Agreed.
IMO, Germany is almost as good as Italy, especially if you are a single guy. Sure Italy is better if you have family or are taking the old lady. Romantic cities like Venice. Also the food is much better. But most of Italy's interesting history is ancient or Renaissance period. Germany is mostly 20th century, and is easier to relate to, if not far more interesting. There is all the WW2 stuff, plus if you include Austria (I know Austrians hate getting lumped in with Germany, but I'll do it anyway) you get all the classical music. And as a plus, if you are like me, car stuff (BMW, Porsche, etc.).
I don't mean to pile on to the other guy. I just wanted to expound on how cool Germany is. In Italy, you see stuff that the tourist books like Lonely Planet TELL you to see. In Germany, you see the stuff that you've always wanted to see.I like Berlin man, it has real historical places that out stand in 20th century.
Also food in Germany if you pay, it is good as German chefs are precise. As for German food. Once or twice per visit is ok, too heavy. But it is good.
Oh good quality Hamburgers in Germany is good too so as the Kebab.
Food is important for FKK trips as man got to eat to fuck right)).
I cannot complain about Germany and as for now pricing are fair enough.
Vito Corleone
10-03-14, 07:35
I never said Europe / Germany is like Thailand. It is 100% opposite. Which doesn't mean there's nothing to do besides PaySex and driving fast.
HB.Germany is like the old MasterCard commercials.
Autobahn & sex clubs = Priceless!
Solo Traveler
10-03-14, 16:39
Boredom in the clubs between sessions, not the entire country, compared to Thailand (since I was comparing the two in the first place). In Thailand you can have your session and then be on your way to a new adventure, not just watching the girls walk back and forth trying to drum up business.I happened to have my sex vacations in Germany and Thailand this summer.
I was in Frankfurt for 3 weeks in July, and in Bangkok for 1 week in August.
I am a monger / sex tourist who only cares about sex.
I am not interested in normal tourists' stuff or any other normal stuff.
When I was not mongering in Frankfurt, I either stay in my hotel room and watch porn on my laptop, or just take a stroll along the Main River and relax.
When I was not mongering in Bangkok, I either stay in my hotel room and watch porn on my laptop, or just take a stroll along the Sukhumvit Road and relax.
That was my mindset.
Frankfurt & Bangkok are totally different.
I cannot compare them, because they are totally different.
The pay for play cultures are totally different. The price structures are totally different. The mongering process are totally different.
And most important of all, the women you will get are totally different!
In Frankfurt, the majority of the working women you'll get are of the European race.
In Bangkok, the majority of the working women you'll get are of the Asian race.
So, it's pretty easy to make a choice between Germany and Thailand, if you are a guy who gets tired of fucking women of your own race, and wants to have a taste of exotic women of other races whom you would only see on TV in normal life.
I am actually talking about myself. I am an East Asian living in East Asia.
I was far more excited and far more horny to see a normal-looking European grandma than to see a super-hot Asian young model.
My Bangkok trip ended up to be a joke in my life, which I am so embarrassed to report it on the Internet til now.
During my 7-day vacation in Bangkok, I fucked 10 European working women and 2 Thai working women totally. I was in Bangkok. And I was looking for European working women desperately there.
I was paying 3000 Thai Baht (for Short time) to 7000 Thai Baht (for Long time) to have sex with normal-looking and sometimes mid-aged Russian / Ukrainian / Uzbekistan freelancers in Bangkok!
LOL! I still couldn't stop laughing at myself until now.
In sum, I think you really have to go to both places and experience both of them by yourself. This is the only way for you to tell which place is a more suitable sex vacation destination for you.
For me, of course the most suitable destination is Germany!
I never said Europe / Germany is like Thailand. It is 100% opposite. Which doesn't mean there's nothing to do besides PaySex and driving fast.
HB.Wouldn't it be interesting though if it was? Huge complex's of gogo bars but filled with Romanians. Instead of paying cover to multiple clubs you could barfine the girls at a reduced amount.
Member #4581
10-03-14, 19:49
And today it dropped to 1. 25 handle.
I computed that from my prior visit in June to now for the $3 grand I typically convert, I will have an extra 200 plus euro, I. E. A couple of extra hours with Roxanna.
Of course, my problem on these 3,4 day visits I make is that I have a difficult time cumming (15 or more sessions in 3,4 days straight, may be 5,6 pops at most combined), and no amount of help from currency can help there, LOL.
American mongers rejoice!
The current Euro / USD exchange rate has now just dipped below 1. 28. Analysts predict that it will drop much lower:
"We recommend staying short EUR / USD in spot," analysts at Barclays wrote in a note to clients, adding they have revised their 12-month euro / dollar forecast to $1. 10 from $1. 25.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/us-markets-forex-idUSKCN0HJ00P20140924.
That sure would be sweet if the Euro dropped another 18 points in 1 year! Huge discount to my mongering budget!
PussyLiccker
10-04-14, 12:51
When I was not mongering in Frankfurt, I either stay in my hotel room and watch porn on my laptop, or just take a stroll along the Main River and relax.
When I was not mongering in Bangkok, I either stay in my hotel room and watch porn on my laptop, or just take a stroll along the Sukhumvit Road and relax.
:D
Time is money. I come to Germany for mongering on my mind, and it's my primary goal. I try to get as much out of it as possible within a limited stay. Tourism isn't on my mind as it's not my reason to be there. When I had extended stays, and made some time to do some touring in Frankfurt, and what I like is trying out local food. There was a market fair one day, and it was nice to try out many types of food and drinks offered there. RLD is worthwhile to see for a first timer and will get a good workout walking up the steps.
Even when you go to Oase the village there is quite a sight to see if you have not been to Europe. I took a train down without cab and walked down through the neighborhood and it's quite a sight. Summer seems to be very nice sights in Germany. Zurich was quite a sight.
I've been to Hamburg for mongering and did some sight seeing during the day. Hamburg I liked more than Frankfurt for it's shopping district and the touristy areas. I've heard Berlin has lots of stuff to see, but unfortunately I have yet to make time for that when there. Same for Munich with the historical structures and all, but the top FKKs are not there.
When you are in a foreign country, it's nice to find stuff that are different from where you are from.
:D
Time is money. I come to Germany for mongering on my mind, and it's my primary goal. I try to get as much out of it as possible within a limited stay. Tourism isn't on my mind as it's not my reason to be there. When I had extended stays, and made some time to do some touring in Frankfurt, and what I like is trying out local food. There was a market fair one day, and it was nice to try out many types of food and drinks offered there. RLD is worthwhile to see for a first timer and will get a good workout walking up the steps.
Even when you go to Oase the village there is quite a sight to see if you have not been to Europe. I took a train down without cab and walked down through the neighborhood and it's quite a sight. Summer seems to be very nice sights in Germany. Zurich was quite a sight.
I've been to Hamburg for mongering and did some sight seeing during the day. Hamburg I liked more than Frankfurt for it's shopping district and the touristy areas. I've heard Berlin has lots of stuff to see, but unfortunately I have yet to make time for that when there. Same for Munich with the historical structures and all, but the top FKKs are not there.
When you are in a foreign country, it's nice to find stuff that are different from where you are from.Hello PussyLiccker.
I thought you were a local, based on your knowledge of the clubs. Funny what SoloTraveller said about how HE spends his spare time. (Cheeky!) Myself, I have never done the RLD tour, only the outside and did not like the seedy area too much. Although, I should probably just run the stairs, just for a looksie. Frankfurt does have a few sights to see, especially near Konstablerwache. I have done a walk from Zoo to there and further west to Hbf. Cannot be thinking about sex 100% of the time, ya know. There are outdoor street vendors here and beer gardens. I found an interesting one near Willy-Brandt Platz around Oper. There was a booth that served up apfelwein.
I would like to take the Oase stroll, but I will probably need the GPS, unless the streets are marked. Friedrichsdorf is only 4. 0 km away from Oase and is easily doable, according to Google. I might give it a try if the weather is nice. Never been to Zurich or Hamburg yet, but I would like to pick your brain about these places, if you don't mind. I will tell you all about Berlin and Munich. These two cities are great to visit for different reasons, especially if you like WWII history.
When are you going back to Oase?
FiddyCent.
PussyLiccker
10-04-14, 17:08
Unfortunately I'm not a local. Or I would be like Syz, hitting the clubs on a weekly basis. No need for GPS, ask soemone on the street where the sex club Oase is. :D The walk that sucks is the Ober-Erlanbacher Str, where there is barely any room to walk along the side of the street. Vien has lots of historical building if you go to the city center, I just did a drive around it since I didn't have too much time. Besides that Vien didn't seem more different from Germany, just looks older. Zurich looks more modern and very clean, and looks quite different. Zurich doesn't seem so packed, looks like a upscale suburban town.
Unfortunately I'm not a local. Or I would be like Syz, hitting the clubs on a weekly basis. No need for GPS, ask soemone on the street where the sex club Oase is. :D The walk that sucks is the Ober-Erlanbacher Str, where there is barely any room to walk along the side of the street. Vien has lots of historical building if you go to the city center, I just did a drive around it since I didn't have too much time. Besides that Vien didn't seem more different from Germany, just looks older. Zurich looks more modern and very clean, and looks quite different. Zurich doesn't seem so packed, looks like a upscale suburban town.Thanks PussyLiccker!
I will take your travel advice into consideration. I wonder if Syzygies would like to join us for a stroll?
FiddyCent.
PussyLiccker
10-04-14, 17:18
I'd recommend you do it on a sunny day with a pleasant weather like in the spring or summer. Not sure how it's like on October there. One time is enough for me and I only drive now as I hit NRW also and more than one club in Hessen. Even the drive through the Autobahn is nice in the summer. When the sun is out in the spring or summer, it's quite different in Germany.
Zurich looks more modern and very clean, and looks quite different. Zurich doesn't seem so packed, looks like a upscale suburban town.If you want to find a real crowd in Zurich, then you have to go to the main train station downtown LOL! I was surprised at how many departures and arrivals they have there on a daily basis for such a small country (but obviously an important one). As for Germany, in study after study and poll after poll, Berlin ranks high as one of the trendiest, coolest cities in the world with plenty to see and do. And it's true too. The thing that surprised me the first time I went to Berlin is how much water there is there. Rivers and such really greatly define the landscape of the city. And of course, there's Munich and Hamburg. Plus plenty of places to go outside of the cities if you want something other than urban activities to engage in. I like German food, but as somebody else here pointed out, it can be very heavy. So, I can only take so much of it. I remember during my first trip to Germany thinking, "May I please, please, please have something else to eat other than meat and potatoes!" Hahaha! And of course, German beer is good too. A lack of things to do outside of mongering is a key reason why I probably will never go to Tijuana again.
Solo Traveler
10-04-14, 19:54
Funny what SoloTraveller said about how HE spends his spare time. (Cheeky!) I thought watching porn is like the most normal thing a man does when HE is in his hotel room alone. LOL.
Of course, I didn't watch porn all the time.
I watched porn just to warm up before I went to the FKK clubs. LOL.
When I said "I took a stroll along the Main River and relax", I mean that I went out of my hotel room and explored the city (around the Main River), just like other tourists did.
I thought watching porn is like the most normal thing a man does when HE is in his hotel room alone. LOL.
Of course, I didn't watch porn all the time.
I watched porn just to warm up before I went to the FKK clubs. LOL.
When I said "I took a stroll along the Main River and relax", I mean that I went out of my hotel room and explored the city (around the Main River), just like other tourists did.Even when I am at home, I watch porn every single day. I mean I do not think I never spend a day without watching porn since I am like 15 years old.
I sometimes think I am sex addict with some level of control, I will never be able to stop mongering.
I thought watching porn is like the most normal thing a man does when HE is in his hotel room alone. LOL.
Of course, I didn't watch porn all the time.
I watched porn just to warm up before I went to the FKK clubs. LOL.
When I said "I took a stroll along the Main River and relax", I mean that I went out of my hotel room and explored the city (around the Main River), just like other tourists did.Hello Solo Traveller.
Of course we all watch PRON! We were just teasing you. I watch to pick up on some of the techniques the porn directors use and apply them in real life. The late night German TV stations also show a bunch of ads for girls selling phone sex. There is something for everybody. European porn and American porn is distinctly different. That is another topic for discussion.
Of course strolls along the river are always nice. The Main, The Elbe, The Danube, etc.
FiddyCent.
If you want to find a real crowd in Zurich, then you have to go to the main train station downtown LOL! I was surprised at how many departures and arrivals they have there on a daily basis for such a small country (but obviously an important one). As for Germany, in study after study and poll after poll, Berlin ranks high as one of the trendiest, coolest cities in the world with plenty to see and do. And it's true too. The thing that surprised me the first time I went to Berlin is how much water there is there. Rivers and such really greatly define the landscape of the city. And of course, there's Munich and Hamburg. Plus plenty of places to go outside of the cities if you want something other than urban activities to engage in. I like German food, but as somebody else here pointed out, it can be very heavy. So, I can only take so much of it. I remember during my first trip to Germany thinking, "May I please, please, please have something else to eat other than meat and potatoes!" Hahaha! And of course, German beer is good too. A lack of things to do outside of mongering is a key reason why I probably will never go to Tijuana again.When I was in Germany just 2 weeks back I was in a dilemma to visit Paris or to Visit Berlin and I chose to visit Paris and what a bad decision that was! Didn't like Paris one bit, and in Germany I have just been to Frankfurt but when compared to Paris. I liked Frankfurt pretty much I know these two cannot be compared but I liked Germany far more than Paris! Looks like should have opted for Berlin so is Berlin really a cool place?
When I was in Germany just 2 weeks back I was in a dilemma to visit Paris or to Visit Berlin and I chose to visit Paris and what a bad decision that was! Didn't like Paris one bit, and in Germany I have just been to Frankfurt but when compared to Paris. I liked Frankfurt pretty much I know these two cannot be compared but I liked Germany far more than Paris! Looks like should have opted for Berlin so is Berlin really a cool place?Berlin is really a cool place. Lots of things to see. But after 3 days you can be bored. I just wish to try normal nightlife in Berlin but I never did. I have been there 2 times. Compared to Paris it's really a heaven.
By the way I am happy to start a discussion about countries here.
The Cane,
It is interesting you say Tijuana is boring without mongering. I was thinking there is sun and beach thing in daytime and a lot of people on the street.
Anyway I am planning a fourth visit to Germany for FKK's. My destination would definitely be Frankfurt. I am curious about World-Palace and Sharks. It should be nice to stay there a week and visit all three. I have visited OASE before.
Mr. Ho,
You are always surprising me. I hope to meet you one day because I think you have an interesting personality.
Watching porn and masturbating between FKK club visits is just crazy!
Pussylicker.
Where you live now?
Hessen Bub
10-05-14, 22:12
There's so many non-German food options. If I go out to eat it is Italian, Thai, Indian, Vietnamese, Spanish, Turkish, Greek, Japanese, Portuguese, Cross Over cuisine etc. No need to have German food when visiting, it can be very heavy. At least traditional German food. There's modern German cuisine, lighter, different.
Paris: I love Paris. Just too many French people there. LOL. Met a couple of US first timers at Palace who told me Women in Paris were so bitchy. Yes, I can see the difference between normal French women and working girls at Palace. LOL.
Berlin is probably the cheapest western European capital. And a great city to visit.
HB.
There's so many non-German food options. If I go out to eat it is Italian, Thai, Indian, Vietnamese, Spanish, Turkish, Greek, Japanese, Portuguese, Cross Over cuisine etc. No need to have German food when visiting, it can be very heavy. At least traditional German food. There's modern German cuisine, lighter, different.
Paris: I love Paris. Just too many French people there. LOL. Met a couple of US first timers at Palace who told me Women in Paris were so bitchy. Yes, I can see the difference between normal French women and working girls at Palace. LOL.
Berlin is probably the cheapest western European capital. And a great city to visit.
HB.German food can be very good, but only for a limited time as variety is limited. But for a tourist's purpose, eating mostly German food can be great. The only caveat is that German food is not good in Berlin. In Berlin, as HessenBub stated, its much more about international food. I think it has to do with the fact that East Berlin was so yearning for the west, that when the wall fell, Berlin was eager to sponge absorb cuisines from other countries. Personally, when I was in Berlin, I ate mostly currywurst and doner kebab. Interestingly, although doner meat is Turkish, the actual dish doner kebab / durum was invented by Turkish entrepeneurs in Germany, not in Turkey itself. It is a German fast food invention.
In Bavaria and southern Germany, the German food is much better. Of course, you have to like pork, veal, and sausages made of pork and veal. Personally, I can never get enough of well made schnitzel. At Oktoberfest, they had these great haxn (pork knuckle) sandwich with thick crispy pork skin pieces that were to die for. I also found that I love kraut salad (not sauerkraut. They are different).
Sorry, I know this is a forum about punting, not food. But I couldn't resist putting my 2 cents in on this one. Just don't have any doner before visiting an FKK. The onion / spices stay on your breath for days.
PussyLiccker
10-05-14, 23:43
Foreign food in Germany is great. Compared to the typical local Americanized ethnic food we have here. I've been to authentic Japanese restaurants and others in Frankfurt.
Pussylicker.
Where you live now?Now you know. I know where you are from, although you got in to GT without problems, and didn't like club. I guess you are more of a Hesse guy. I'm shifting more to Hesse now. Will likely to Oase and Sharks next trip.
There's so many non-German food options. No need to have German food when visiting, it can be very heavy. At least traditional German food. There's modern German cuisine, lighter, different.I know that. It's just that during my very first visit, I wanted to focus on what makes Germany German. That would include authentic, traditional German food. Now when I go to Germany, I may have a traditional German course only once during the entire trip, if even that much. There are simply too many other good options to satisfy my tastes. The only thing German I can't get enough of is pretty, German girl arsch, which there certainly is not enough of in the clubs!
PussyLiccker
10-06-14, 03:44
I know that. It's just that during my very first visit, I wanted to focus on what makes Germany German. That would include authentic, traditional German food. Now when I go to Germany, I may have a traditional German course only once during the entire trip, if even that much. There are simply too many other good options to satisfy my tastes. The only thing German I can't get enough of is pretty, German girl arsch, which there certainly is not enough of in the clubs!You'll notice, HB likes to point out the obvious stuff like HE knows the obvious stuff. LOL.
Hessen Bub
10-06-14, 17:43
You'll notice, HB likes to point out the obvious stuff like HE knows the obvious stuff. LOL.For some people it didn't seem obvious as they were complaining about heavy German food like that is the only option available. LOL.
HB.
Seriously guys, this coming from a non-German European, when you start to think you like German food something is terribly wrong. No one likes German food, hardly even the Germens themselves, WTF, schweinhaxe, eisbein, bratwurst, sauerkraut and kartoffelkartoffelkartoffel.
The idea is nice that you try to like the rest of the country and its customs in addition to the clubs. But the good things in Germany are cars, autobahn and sex-clubs, and not in that order. The rest is as sexy as Merkel; no need for any additional comment.
Actually there is one more thing. I have to lift my hat for the domestic German mongers, they / you have kept the pay-sex price moderate and service level demand high. This is something we outsiders can enjoy every time we visit FKK-land. Thank you for that. But still, your food sucks!
PH
Seriously guys, this coming from a non-German European, when you start to think you like German food something is terribly wrong. No one likes German food, hardly even the Germens themselves, WTF, schweinhaxe, eisbein, bratwurst, sauerkraut and kartoffelkartoffelkartoffel.
The idea is nice that you try to like the rest of the country and its customs in addition to the clubs. But the good things in Germany are cars, autobahn and sex-clubs, and not in that order. The rest is as sexy as Merkel; no need for any additional comment.
Actually there is one more thing. I have to lift my hat for the domestic German mongers, they / you have kept the pay-sex price moderate and service level demand high. This is something we outsiders can enjoy every time we visit FKK-land. Thank you for that. But still, your food sucks!
PHTo the uninitiated, German food is good for a while. For tourists, who are visiting for a week or two, its an interesting diversion. Some of the pork cuts are deliciously decadent. But yeah, for anything longer than that, you can get tired of sausages, sauerkraut, and schweinbraten. IF doner kebab is considered "spicy" in Germany, you know that the cuisine won't be appealing to you for long.
To the uninitiated, German food is good for a while. For tourists, who are visiting for a week or two, its an interesting diversion. Some of the pork cuts are deliciously decadent. But yeah, for anything longer than that, you can get tired of sausages, sauerkraut, and schweinbraten. IF doner kebab is considered "spicy" in Germany, you know that the cuisine won't be appealing to you for long.Guten Appetit Manny51.
Yes, I look forward to the doner kebabs from the street vendors, especially the one stand near the der Clou mall in Berlin. The best one I ever had. There are also tons of places to grab hnchen. Roasted in its own juices, I can definitely eat an entire chicken in one sitting. However, I just cannot understand why Currywurst is so popular. This is the most disgusting combination of flavors I have ever tried, but if you are hungry enough, you'll eat anything. Just wash it down with a tall stein of good 'ol German beer and all is good.
Prost!
FiddyCent.
Banana Boi
10-07-14, 04:54
Anyone know a good site where I can find a rental apartment with a kitchen in Dusseldorf for 3-4 weeks? Figure it has to be cheaper than paying hotel rates for a month.
Seriously guys, this coming from a non-German European, when you start to think you like German food something is terribly wrong. No one likes German food, hardly even the Germens themselves, WTF, schweinhaxe, eisbein, bratwurst, sauerkraut and kartoffelkartoffelkartoffel.
The idea is nice that you try to like the rest of the country and its customs in addition to the clubs. But the good things in Germany are cars, autobahn and sex-clubs, and not in that order. The rest is as sexy as Merkel; no need for any additional comment.
Actually there is one more thing. I have to lift my hat for the domestic German mongers, they / you have kept the pay-sex price moderate and service level demand high. This is something we outsiders can enjoy every time we visit FKK-land. Thank you for that. But still, your food sucks!
PHI like it because I only eat German food once or twice per year Same goes for Doner Kebab.
When in Germany, I eat mainly German food, plus it is right food for my sex every single day holiday of mine You know meat, meat, meat!
So when I see German restaurant or Kebab stand in Tokyo, it remind me of my crazy sex adventures LOL.
Ok I know this is not supposed to be a travel guide, but if we are going to discuss Germany foodwise, then as HB says, there is more to food in Germany than "old" German food. Choice is extensive. Berlin is for example widely recognised as the vegan capital of Europe. If we're adventurous to discover FKKs then finding different foods isn't a problem.
Anyone know a good site where I can find a rental apartment with a kitchen in Dusseldorf for 3-4 weeks? Figure it has to be cheaper than paying hotel rates for a month.Had a quick look but couldn't find cheap availability in DD. I do know however of a 40 euro apartment in Brueggen if that is any good (handy for GT and PHG but about 45 minutes from DD). PM if you want details.
Had a quick look but couldn't find cheap availability in DD. I do know however of a 40 euro apartment in Brueggen if that is any good (handy for GT and PHG but about 45 minutes from DD). PM if you want details.I tried holiday flat renting in Berlin, but cheapest reasonable ones I found was like 40 euro per night. Anything below that looked very unreasonable. I mean you want to have some level of security, internet of some kind, dishes in the kitchen etc right? Then. The whole stay add up to the same as staying in hotel, so I figured it is better to just stay in hotel and get special rate for staying for long time like few weeks.
However, there is renting room options (you rent room from people who has apartment), but living with strangers. I don't know how comfortable that is even though I am sure people who does this tend to be kind and friendly, but if I cannot do this because I go to FKK at 4 pm and I come back at around 1 am or sometimes even at 5 am, so it will be odd guest who disappear at late afternoon and come back when the sun rise LOL. Even at hotel they look at me strangely of my exact same daily routine. These guys won't understand the lifestyle of international mongers. LOL.
Ok I know this is not supposed to be a travel guide, but if we are going to discuss Germany foodwise, then as HB says, there is more to food in Germany than "old" German food. Choice is extensive. Berlin is for example widely recognised as the vegan capital of Europe. If we're adventurous to discover FKKs then finding different foods isn't a problem.No one is saying that you can't get good food in Germany. Its just that most of us don't live there and are visiting. Because of that, some of us want to take advantage of the opportunity to have German cuisine in particular.
Even if it isn't as deep and varied as, lets say, Thai food, for a week or two it can satisfy your attention. That's all we are saying.
Guten Appetit Manny51.
Yes, I look forward to the doner kebabs from the street vendors, especially the one stand near the der Clou mall in Berlin. The best one I ever had. There are also tons of places to grab hnchen. Roasted in its own juices, I can definitely eat an entire chicken in one sitting. However, I just cannot understand why Currywurst is so popular. This is the most disgusting combination of flavors I have ever tried, but if you are hungry enough, you'll eat anything. Just wash it down with a tall stein of good 'ol German beer and all is good.
Prost!
FiddyCent.Yeah, currywurst is definitely an acquired taste. My first time, I didn't like it. But after eating it so many times late at night, primarily because it is the cheapest thing available, it becomes part of the Berlin "experience. " I don't think that anyone would call it delicious on its own merits.
Yeah, currywurst is definitely an acquired taste. My first time, I didn't like it. But after eating it so many times late at night, primarily because it is the cheapest thing available, it becomes part of the Berlin "experience. " I don't think that anyone would call it delicious on its own merits.It is still one notch above Noodle Box.
FiddyCent.
Anyone know a good site where I can find a rental apartment with a kitchen in Dusseldorf for 3-4 weeks? Figure it has to be cheaper than paying hotel rates for a month.Banana,
I feel like you are preparing for a big FKK hit.
You can try Airbnb. I think it's definitely the best and biggest one for apartment rental in any city.
Why you base in Dusseldorf? Just curious.
Manny51. Fair point. I think I misunderstood.
Manny51. Fair point. I think I misunderstood.No worries. Perhaps I drew that conversation out a little too much. I just like to talk about food!
BTW, any good cheap foodie recommendations? I'll be back in Berlin in a couple of months.
Hessen Bub
10-11-14, 12:11
T Some of the pork cuts are deliciously decadent. But yeah, for anything longer than that, you can get tired of sausages, sauerkraut, and schweinbraten. .These are stereotypes. This is not German food. It is like saying Japanese only eat Sushi, English only fish & chips, Americans only burgers, Italians only Pizza, Spanish only Paella.
HB.
These are stereotypes. This is not German food. It is like saying Japanese only eat Sushi, English only fish & chips, Americans only burgers, Italians only Pizza, Spanish only Paella.
HB.What's the stereotype? That this is not German food? OR that this is all that Germans eat?
I was claiming the former. If it is NOT traditional German food, that you are claiming counter to everything I have read, saw and heard. I would challenge you to elaborate.
These are stereotypes. This is not German food.
HB.Pork, sausages, schnitzel, sauerkraut, potato salad, bier and all that isn't German food and drink? Now you've gone and overstated your point! Yes it is German food, and clearly you must mean that it's not the "only" German food, or the only kind of food that Germans eat. Nor was anybody saying that it is the only kind either. The only tasty dish I was ever able to count on at Oase under the old food set-up and offerings was the pork schnitzel with potatoes LOL! As German as it gets hahaha!
Pork, sausages, schnitzel, sauerkraut, potato salad, bier and all that isn't German food and drink? Now you've gone and overstated your point! Yes it is German food, and clearly you must mean that it's not the "only" German food, or the only kind of food that Germans eat. Nor was anybody saying that it is the only kind either. The only tasty dish I was ever able to count on at Oase under the old food set-up and offerings was the pork schnitzel with potatoes LOL! As German as it gets hahaha!Ahh. Schnitzel. I know that people generally criticize German food, and I got tired of sausages pretty quick. But a good schnitzel--tenderized on the inside with a crispy fried breading on the outside, is to absolutely die for. Good ones don't require any sauce.
Hessen Bub
10-11-14, 18:28
Yes. My fault. I clearly meant "not the only German food". ;)
HB.
Just curious but has any locals ever experienced a pig roast or a smoked briquet? Either in Germany or abroad. I always find the clubs bbq's "lacking", there's more to grill then just sausage and chicken. Only one club did a decent bbq in my opinion and it was over hardwood coals. I did visit Sharks the day after one of their parties where they had bbq'd up part of a cow (a buddy visiting on the day of the party and said the food was spectacular) and the leftover's were pretty good. Always thought a club like Oase could easily do a pig roast every weekend with the amount of guests in attendance.
Hessen Bub
10-12-14, 14:51
If they cared about what food they serve they could do a pig roast for BBQ. Unfortunately most clubs don't. World and Oase have been grilling the same 2 or 3 meats for the last 10 years.
HB.
If they cared about what food they serve they could do a pig roast for BBQ. Unfortunately most clubs don't. World and Oase have been grilling the same 2 or 3 meats for the last 10 years.
HB.Agreed. A big BBQ would be a money loser. Why do a big bbq, when burgers and sausags will do just fine.
If I was an FKK owner, I would do burgers and sausages every day. Sausages and burgers are cheap. Yet cook them on a grill and suddenly its outdoorsy, fun, and delicious. Buy a big tub of kraut salad, make some french fries in the kitchen, and it is ON! I would take that any day over the more typical "gourmet" dish of beef or pork in cream sauce.
It would only suck for the person who has to clean the grill every day!
If they cared about what food they serve they could do a pig roast for BBQ. Unfortunately most clubs don't. World and Oase have been grilling the same 2 or 3 meats for the last 10 years.
HBMore they care, more they could mess the food up, so I rather hope that they keep menu more simple like Pasta stand and pizza stand, and they can focus on those two type of food with different variety with solid salad bar and soup stand. I mean they cannot mess those up and could offer varieties with such simple menu with different topping, sauce etc.
Vito Corleone
10-13-14, 06:31
Just curious but has any locals ever experienced a pig roast or a smoked briquet? Either in Germany or abroad. I always find the clubs bbq's "lacking", there's more to grill then just sausage and chicken. Only one club did a decent bbq in my opinion and it was over hardwood coals. I did visit Sharks the day after one of their parties where they had bbq'd up part of a cow (a buddy visiting on the day of the party and said the food was spectacular) and the leftover's were pretty good. Always thought a club like Oase could easily do a pig roast every weekend with the amount of guests in attendance.One of the parties at Sharks around 3 years ago prepared a roasted wild boar. It was pretty good.
Hessen Bub
10-15-14, 21:59
If you care to offer good food and variety, this is not a problem. Hire the right people and make sure to pay them ok. Look at Living Room, 5 E, Palace, Paradise. It is possible to serve decent fresh food in a club.
HB.
I think about food not just the quality of food served also the ambience and style of service is very important. We can compare these like real restaurants. So for instance magnum has great food but restaurant there is just clostrophobic. Also not a friendly place. Samya loosing points because they stupidly allow girls approach customers in restaurant and they can blow up your meal. Who likes his dck be folded during having a steak? I think number one is Artemis. It has the advantage of both good quality food and nice ambience. I think interaction with girls shouldn't be completely prohibited but it must be limited to company like it is done in Artemis. It is always a pleasure eating with a beautiful woman. Also Oase has the second tier. Because of cost and quality of food it s very behind of Artemis. The third one is definitely GT brugen i make it third after despite the very good quality of the food served because it is very far away of action and girls are usually nor present there..Just my two cents.
Note:GT has a very cute waitress.I dont know her name but she is slim and has blonde short hair...Regulars will remember her...
UltraHappy
10-15-14, 23:47
Who likes his dck be folded during having a steak? Who wouldn't want their dick to be fondled while having a steak? Sounds like an enhancement to the steak-eating experience to me.
Who wouldn't want their dick to be fondled while having a steak? Sounds like an enhancement to the steak-eating experience to me.Believe me it is not that funny. You are trying to have your meal and just came back from a session and some 7 trying to convince you for another one. This happened to me in Samya...I appreciate Artemis and Oase policy about this. Very professional.
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