German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area [Archive] - Page 21

PussyLiccker

12-25-15, 23:06

Someone was posting about siliconed butt. How common is that in the clubs? Pretty sad really, to me. As it is, I prefer small, natural tits on young slim ladies and don't like big butts, or even what others might call shapely butts. Don't think I have taken too many sessions with siliconed boobie girls, and hate to think I have taken any sessions with siliconed butt girls.I can't say if I've met or noticed girls with silicone butts. It seems to me that it's beauty feature in Colombia by the girls, and perhaps more of the south american Latinas. Just google, Colombian girls and see what is common to the looks. Big boobs (silicones), chiseled abs, and rather large butts. The butts is not natural looking, so it's fairly obvious that there were silicone implants done. Not saying all the girls are representive of the bimbo types there, but my guess is that look is sought after there due to men's ideal. Latina tend to be well endow'd, and Brazilians have the big ass competition too. So, culturally, men have differing tastes.

Personally, the model type (not thin model types) looks facially, the Colombians look hot/cute, etc. Lots of makeup makes it so too I imagine. But, these photo gals doesn't represent the majority I think. I haven't been there myself.

Banana Boi

12-25-15, 23:56

If you're into Latinas a buddy of mine went to Costa Rica in November. Took some pics of a girl he picked up and she was a 9. 5. A girl any of us would have went with at a FKK (keeping with the mandated FKK related thread). I forgot the names of the clubs he went to.

Hessen Bub

12-26-15, 00:48

Less than 1% of the girls have silicone butts. My estimate.

HB.

Neurosynth

12-26-15, 01:06

We should take into consideration that Mr. Ho's native language is not English.

It is certainly possible that you are interpreting his statements in ways he did not intend them.

As a native English speaker, it is readily apparent to me that his statements are not always clear and may be interpreted in many different ways.
...
.Hi UltraHappy. Thanks for your comments. I actually have some sympathy in that direction.

However, Mr. Ho made a number of rambling posts touching on various nationality stereotypes. I extracted the one that is the most blatant. Actually he stated this twice, so I called him on it. The literal meaning couldn't be clearer.

"I mean incredible development that took place after world war 2 in Germany and Japan who both lost war is mostly because of our racial characteristics, all this was not just fluke. ".

You will note in his response he sidesteps addressing the quote. He could have said he didn't really mean "racial characteristics" But he didn't.

So now I've invited him twice to explain himself. Let's see what he has to say for himself. I'm a pretty tolerant person. I let a lot of stuff on this board pass. To each his own. But I won't get caught in the paradox of having to be tolerant of intolerance. Some things are just too far over the line, pure and simple. This may be one of them.

ZimmerBaby

12-26-15, 01:12

Have tried Pattaya (lived in Soi LK Metro), BKK, Patong, Macau, Hong Kong, Eastern Europe. So much shit you have to go through before a fuck. It actually kills my sexuality when a thai girl calls it "BOOM-BOOM". Berlin and Frankfurt are the definitive choice for me now. Thailand is also invaded by low lifes and other misfits from Western countries. People you probably would avoid back home. No surprise that the ordinary thais hate the farangs. Also great Asian food in German cities.

Mr Ho

12-26-15, 01:27

Hi UltraHappy. Thanks for your comments. I actually have some sympathy in that direction.

However, Mr. Ho made a number of rambling posts touching on various nationality stereotypes. I extracted the one that is the most blatant. Actually he stated this twice, so I called him on it. The literal meaning couldn't be clearer.

"I mean incredible development that took place after world war 2 in Germany and Japan who both lost war is mostly because of our racial characteristics, all this was not just fluke. ".

You will note in his response he sidesteps addressing the quote. He could have said he didn't really mean "racial characteristics" But he didn't.

So now I've invited him twice to explain himself. Let's see what he has to say for himself. I'm a pretty tolerant person. I let a lot of stuff on this board pass. To each his own. But I won't get caught in the paradox of having to be tolerant of intolerance. Some things are just too far over the line, pure and simple. This may be one of them.You are not tolerant person LOL People like you who play with every single word and twist the story make the world worst, you are like ISIS man LOL Stop playing with every single little word.

As for my statement about German people and Japanese people tend to be more organized, I am not taking that back, I think these characteristics or tendency contributed a lot in the wide range of industries that we did well and also in business for developing fact based reputation for being honest, correct and fairness, this is not stereo type, it is a fact.

Now stop playing with word here, I am not referring this to every little single Germans and Japanese that exist on this planet OK? Gosh, it is so hard to have conversation with you as your every little word are so correct and right LOL.

I hope you do not spend your days pointing finger at people all the time LOL You struck me as type of guy who tell girls in FKK, 30 minute is exactly 30 minute and according to house rule you must do this as I paid entry of x Euro to agree to FKK house rule, blur blur LOL.

Have some common sense and read between the line or nobody can have conversation with you LOL.

So according to you, I wrote that German and Japan should get together to wage some racial war? I mean. You must have some really weird stereo type on Germany and Japan, the world changed and just for record Germany and Japan is pretty developed nations you know? Do you know this? LOL.

Neurosynth

12-26-15, 01:30

No I cannot, look German and Japanese are known to be organized people. You cannot say such race is such and such, but one can generalize, so what I meant is that such characteristic of both nations enable incredible development that are remarkable. ....Mr Ho this is really simple. You said:

""I mean incredible development that took place after world war 2 in Germany and Japan who both lost war is mostly because of our racial characteristics, all this was not just fluke. ".

Note the part: "because of our racial characteristics".

And to underscore again: "racial characteristics".

The very idea that there is such a thing as "racial characteristics" is *by definition* racism. Racists believe that racial characteristics exist. Non-racists do not.

(With the obvious exception of superficial cosmetic differences, the odd disease here and there, and other trivialities.).

Rather than give me a long lecture on the obvious, you should take responsibility for the words you yourself used. You still have not.

What do you mean by the phrase "racial characteristics?"

Mr Ho

12-26-15, 02:39

[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited or deleted in accordance with the Forum's policy prohibiting any discussion regarding racial issues. This action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

I am aware that the vast majority of references to racial issues are legitimate attempts to advise other fellow members about local racial issues and prejudices. However, past discussions in the Forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

Please do not engage in discussions about race in the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.

Thanks!

Jimmy Boy 99

12-26-15, 03:07

Snip The very idea that there is such a thing as "racial characteristics" is *by definition* racism. Racists believe that racial characteristics exist. Non-racists do not.

(With the obvious exception of superficial cosmetic differences, the odd disease here and there, and other trivialities.).

Rather than give me a long lecture on the obvious, you should take responsibility for the words you yourself used. You still have not.

What do you mean by the phrase "racial characteristics?"Fine. You're not a racist. However, since the Japanese and Germans are not separate races but belong to the Mongoloid and Caucasoid races, respectively, it was not because of their racial characteristics that they were defeated by members of the same race, and thus that could not be what Mr. Ho meant, so stop with the racist stuff. What he presumably meant to say was cultural characteristics, of which even an apparently politically correct type like yourself should admit exist.

UltraHappy

12-26-15, 03:46

Less than 1% of the girls have silicone butts. My estimate.

HB.Unfortunately, this is not uncommon in Colombia. I especially saw this in the Colombian-filled Casas in St. Martin. In my opinion, this looks horrendous, but I suppose the guys down there must go for that. In Colombia (for example Medellin), there are so many girls available down there that the enhanced ones are easy to avoid.

I don't recall every seeing this in German FKK. Actually, I might have seen this before, but any girl so-enhanced would have immediately become invisible to me so that I would not notice her among all the other available FKK-beauties.

And, oh yeah: Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany.

Member #4581

12-26-15, 04:37

Silly Q but can you tell a siliconed butt by looking, or do you have to feel it?

De ^6

All For Bb

12-26-15, 04:44

You are not tolerant person LOL People like you who play with every single word and twist the story make the world worst, you are like ISIS man LOL Stop playing with every single little word.

As for my statement about German people and Japanese people tend to be more organized, I am not taking that back, I think these characteristics or tendency contributed a lot in the wide range of industries that we did well and also in business for developing fact based reputation for being honest, correct and fairness, this is not stereo type, it is a fact.

Now stop playing with word here, I am not referring this to every little single Germans and Japanese that exist on this planet OK? Gosh, it is so hard to have conversation with you as your every little word are so correct and right LOL.

I hope you do not spend your days pointing finger at people all the time LOL You struck me as type of guy who tell girls in FKK, 30 minute is exactly 30 minute and according to house rule you must do this as I paid entry of x Euro to agree to FKK house rule, blur blur LOL.

Have some common sense and read between the line or nobody can have conversation with you LOL.

So according to you, I wrote that German and Japan should get together to wage some racial war? I mean. You must have some really weird stereo type on Germany and Japan, the world changed and just for record Germany and Japan is pretty developed nations you know? Do you know this? LOL.Jap and Ger lost the WW2 because they were on the wrong side of history.

We love pussy, including Japanese and German young pussy, not war! This is not the place to discuss the WW2.

UltraHappy

12-26-15, 04:55

Silly Q but can you tell a siliconed butt by looking, or do you have to feel it?

De ^6They're obvious just by looking, as the effect looks rather unnatural. It's not like boobs -- the enhanced butts are not easy to detect merely by feeling.

Wolvenvacht

12-26-15, 08:50

However, since the Japanese and Germans are not separate races but belong to the Mongoloid and Caucasoid races, Eh, actually they both belong to the human race, as we do all. There is no such thing as a mongoloid or caucasoid race. They are not even ethnicities.

Hessen Bub

12-26-15, 10:34

Unfortunately, this is not uncommon in Colombia. I especially saw this in the Colombian-filled Casas in St. Martin. In my opinion, this looks horrendous, but I suppose the guys down there must go for that. In Colombia (for example Medellin), there are so many girls available down there that the enhanced ones are easy to avoid.

I don't recall every seeing this in German FKK. Actually, I might have seen this before, but any girl so-enhanced would have immediately become invisible to me so that I would not notice her among all the other available FKK-beauties.

And, oh yeah: Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany.I should have added less than 1% of the girls in German FKK have enhanced butts. I recall a Bulgarian girl at Palace years ago, and I am not so sire about Sol at Sharks a few weeks ago.

HB.

Shark16

12-26-15, 11:52

I should have added less than 1% of the girls in German FKK have enhanced butts. I recall a Bulgarian girl at Palace years ago, and I am not so sire about Sol at Sharks a few weeks ago.

HB.There is a latina at World that I suspect has enhanced her butt cheeks (Perla, Dom?). I would have suspected enhanced tits as well (at least D-cups), but those in the know claim it is in fact a matter of breast reduction. While I like curves, this is simply too much for me. Not my specs at all. She looks cartoonish in such a way that she would stand out even by St. Martin standards (and in Colombia / SA too I presume).

There is another latina at World, Selena from Uruguay, which is all natural and in my book looks absolutely stunning. Cutest smile around. Beautiful curves and her A-cups looks good on her. Maybe her soft thighs are too soft for some guys (Me? I just can't get enough ....), but according to some inside info she will be training hard on rollerblades on the beaches of Uruguay this coming summer to muscle up those thighs / butt cheeks. That's the way to go. I just can't wait for her return.

Yes, huge cleavages and big curvy butts are requirements under latina law. It IS a cultural thing. When visiting latina places you will be surprised how many of these are all naturals and still slim, and they love to show off. But true, the downside with latinas are often overweight chicas (nutrition in SA not too healthy with too much sugar in food) and/or enhanced chicas (if your tits / butts are not big enough, they will buy it). In that way Perla and Selena very much represent what you can expect at latina places (as far as my experience goes).

XXL

12-26-15, 12:54

But true, the downside with latinas are often overweight chicas (nutrition in SA not too healthy with too much sugar in food) and/or enhanced chicasAnother downside is that they tend to be not as young as many of the Rumanians. More thirtysomethings. Of course this goes hand in hand with plastic surgery. It's not as easy for a Latina to work in Germany as it is for a Rumanian (who can basically work when she's 18/21). A latina must first marry then wait for a few years. I remember seeing the passport of a Brazilian who'd just married a German. It had a stamp that said "Selbsttaetigkeit nicht gestattet" (self-employment no allowed). She could be an employee but not be self-employed. I wondered what the point of this could be. It could have to do with preventing her from prostituting.

Shark16

12-26-15, 14:01

Another downside is that they tend to be not as young as many of the Rumanians. More thirtysomethings.AFAIK Perla claims to be late 20s (look 30+) and Selena early 20s (freshlooking). Diana at Oase mid / late 20s. Latinas at TD in Barcelona IME everything from early to late 20s. The best SXM Clubs early 20s to early 30s (predominantly mid/late 20s). Guys only looking for the 18- 23 range probably need to visit SA itself.

PussyLiccker

12-26-15, 14:43

AFAIK Perla is late 20s and Selena early 20s. Diana at Oase mid / late 20s. Latinas at TD in Barcelona IME everything from early to late 20s. The best SXM Clubs early 20s to early 30s (predominantly mid/late 20s). Guys only looking for the 18- 23 range probably need to visit SA itself.

If you're into Latinas a buddy of mine went to Costa Rica in November. Took some pics of a girl he picked up and she was a 9. 5. A girl any of us would have went with at a FKK (keeping with the mandated FKK related thread). I forgot the names of the clubs he went to.For Latina search in the Americas, I'll probably start out with Costa Rica where the girls are drawn from other countries. I've heard from veteran punters that they prefer to trip to the countries rather than Costa Rica. So, they hit the source of where the girls come from like Colombia. But, a newbie like me is probably better off starting off at SXM or Costa Rica. Since Brazil has termas, it sounds simpler than maybe Colombia or other destinations.

I think Vive Madrid on the avg is mid to late 20's Latinas. One Brazilian, cute face that had to have been early 20's. Another comes to late 20's (27? With the tight dresses you can tell how voluptious they were. They were well endow'd, very curvy. Not like the EEs. There are lots of girls so the place draw a variety of Latinas (I should have tried out at least 1 latina there, there were cute ones since my sessions with Romies were below avg). The half hour rate is really enticing for lots of girls, but of course so many girls (up to 200?) mean competition for them. Other than that, the Latinas at other venues were much on the older side (around 30 or older) besides Flower's with two girls from Valencia, Spain. By the way, I saw a girl from Club Mondial (in Cologne) at Vive, and she's one the youngest Romie there. She's not somebody I was particularly attracted to when I visit Mondial. IMO, if looking for EEs, Madrid don't seem worth it in comparison to DE. Cutest Romie I found there at Flower's, young, early 20's(probably was like 20). One of the two Romies that hang out together. She would be pretty at any club(DE SP whatever), but since she was working there, I got hit with the typical(not only in DE), "I only do 1hr." Haha. The pretties girl I met in Spain(A Romie). This type of interaction depends on which club the Romie is at I imagine. If I'm at Whiskeria Estark, I will meet low baller Romies(50 Euros), and they will go down if I do extended room. Pricing isn't standardized except Vive and Flower's it seems.

Neurosynth

12-26-15, 20:24

Fine. You're not a racist. However, since the Japanese and Germans are not separate races but belong to the Mongoloid and Caucasoid races, respectively, it was not because of their racial characteristics that they were defeated by members of the same race, and thus that could not be what Mr. Ho meant, so stop with the racist stuff. What he presumably meant to say was cultural characteristics, of which even an apparently politically correct type like yourself should admit exist.The big boss has asked that we not further discuss race, so I'll respect that. But I do want to quickly respond to the appellation "politically correct. ".

If you knew me you would know how poorly that describes my point of view. I am a free speech absolutist and I abhor censorship or chilling speech whether it comes from the left, right, or elsewhere. I actively support the most outrageous forms of comedy and satire. I believe irreverence is the very lifeblood of democracy.

However. This is not about political correctness. It's not about what we call things. It's about a world view based on race. It's about a theory that some countries succeed because of "racial characteristics. ".

So it's not a question of political correctness. It's a question of science. It's a question of facts and rationality.

What did Mr Ho really mean? It's hard to tell. While others assumed he couldn't possibly literally mean "racial characteristics" *he* never denied it. There are people out there who believe in such nonsense.

Anyway I previously mentioned that there is a paradox where some will insist that intolerance must be tolerated. In my view when an intolerant philosophy that would claim victims if implemented enters a public debate it should be vigorously opposed. The best way to cure problems created by free speech is more free speech. Folks posting in a place like this should have an acute appreciation of that!

SwingerLover

12-26-15, 20:46

"politically correct. "Any current discussion aside, what the fuck is "politically correct"? As opposed to just simply "correct". If something is not "correct", then it can only be "incorrect". Therefore "politically correct" equals "incorrect"!

This "political correctness" Bullshit is one of the stupidest insanities in the history of mankind! Whoever uses it does so solely to oppress a different opinion, which he cannot refute otherwise. This so-called "political correctness" is today's most favorite toy of totalitarianism. If anybody approaches you with any kind of "political correctness", rest assured that this person's or group's interest lies solely in themselves and in nothing else!

XXL

12-26-15, 20:53

AFAIK Perla claims to be late 20s (look 30+) I remember sessioning Perla and she was superb. When I come around to visit World again she'll be THE girl I'll look forward to. I remember enhanced butts (combined or not with rib removal and / or liposuccion, never mind). Girls claim to be late 20's until they topple over into their thirties. I guess having had all that surgery entitles them to claim to be ten years younger. I only noticed Perla late during my World visit because she was cowering in some corner away from the main action, together with other latina sisters. She is the archetype of the good "pro". No girl-friend pretence, just maximal X-rated impact. Did she say she was Dominican? Dominicans are the closest to black you can get these days in Germany, what with the Brazilians not coming here any more (and the Africans being rare for other reasons).

Shark16

12-26-15, 23:56

For Latina search in the Americas, I'll probably start out with Costa Rica where the girls are drawn from other countries. I've heard from veteran punters that they prefer to trip to the countries rather than Costa Rica. So, they hit the source of where the girls come from like Colombia. But, a newbie like me is probably better off starting off at SXM or Costa Rica. Since Brazil has termas, it sounds simpler than maybe Colombia or other destinations.PL, please. For a guy who wasted his time in Madrid you have to understand there is nothing for you in SXM / Costa Rica. So just drop it and don't waste your time and money on those destinations. Do yourself a favor and read Ultrahappy's and Vitrea's Colombia reports to find the young latinas you (maybe) are looking for. Or focus on the termas in Brazil. Costa Rica / SXM are just too small for you and you will not find what you are looking for.

For NA guys not so jaded as PL but having a latina interest and not good enough Spanish skills, I agree SXM / Costa Rica can be a good start to get some taste of that Colombiana flavour. Cheaper airfare and you are doing fine with your English (untill you meet the chicas). But most of all I would like to keep my little paradise island a big secret. So just stay away! :)

Shark16

12-27-15, 00:00

I remember sessioning Perla and she was superb. When I come around to visit World again she'll be THE girl I'll look forward to.Just shows how tastes differ. Glad to learn she performs well.

PussyLiccker

12-27-15, 00:44

PL, please. For a guy who wasted his time in Madrid you have to understand there is nothing for you in SXM / Costa Rica. So just drop it and don't waste your time and money on those destinations. Do yourself a favor and read Ultrahappy's and Vitrea's Colombia reports to find the young latinas you (maybe) are looking for. Or focus on the termas in Brazil. Costa Rica / SXM are just too small for you and you will not find what you are looking for.You have to give me some reasons for this. I wrote a report about Madrid, which you haven't been. Madrid is mixed of Latinas and EEs. Mostly EEs. So, how do you arrive at your recommendation? What makes you think I should head for Colombia instead of Costa Rica? I have been reading about Colombia, and I have decided against it for now based on what I know. Why should I take your word than taking a look myself?

Citizen Kane

12-27-15, 01:22

I have been reading about Colombia, and I have decided against it for now based on what I know.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_1ujgS8bIM

Jimmy Boy 99

12-27-15, 01:36

Eh, actually they both belong to the human race, as we do all. There is no such thing as a mongoloid or caucasoid race. They are not even ethnicities.Eh, actually humans are not a race but a species (Homo Sapiens), much like domestic dogs are a species (Canis Lupus Familiaris), and included in both are different subsets, called races in humans and breeds in dogs. There are at least three human races (Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid), with some including another, the Australoid.

http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/how-many-major-races-are-there-in-the-world/

Jimmy Boy 99

12-27-15, 02:38

Snip
What did Mr Ho really mean? It's hard to tell. While others assumed he couldn't possibly literally mean "racial characteristics" *he* never denied it. There are people out there who believe in such nonsense. SnipIf you read his responses to you, it is obvious he is talking cultural characteristics, so lets drop the racist accusations, and don't be so quick to accuse someone next time.

Neurosynth

12-27-15, 02:44

Eh, actually humans are not a race but a species (Homo Sapiens), much like domestic dogs are a species (Canis Lupus Familiaris), and included in both are different subsets, called races in humans and breeds in dogs. There are at least three human races (Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid), with some including another, the Australoid.

http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/how-many-major-races-are-there-in-the-world/All humans are not only the same biological species, they are the same biological subspecies. The scientific consensus is that race has little biological significance, and it's primarily a social construct. I. e. Different cultures will have different notions as to what or whether races exist because there is no independent objective measure or test. The variance dividing human races as traditionally defined (mainly on the basis of superficial physical differences) is much less than the variance between different breeds of dogs.

In short, race is mainly a myth that persists due to its own momentum.

Neurosynth

12-27-15, 02:51

If you read his responses to you, it is obvious he is talking cultural characteristics, so lets drop the racist accusations, and don't be so quick to accuse someone next time.We've been asked to not continue the Ho debate. Suffice it to say we disagree.

Jimmy Boy 99

12-27-15, 04:09

All humans are not only the same biological species, they are the same biological subspecies. The scientific consensus is that race has little biological significance, and it's primarily a social construct. I. e. Different cultures will have different notions as to what or whether races exist because there is no independent objective measure or test. The variance dividing human races as traditionally defined (mainly on the basis of superficial physical differences) is much less than the variance between different breeds of dogs.

In short, race is mainly a myth that persists due to its own momentum.If you really think the difference between a pale white, straight-haired, blonde Scandinavian and a jet black African with tightly coiled black hair is a social construct, and not biological, nothing I could say would make any difference, so I will leave you to your beliefs.

Delta Indigo

12-27-15, 04:56

If you really think the difference between a pale white, straight-haired, blonde Scandinavian and a jet black African with tightly coiled black hair is a social construct, and not biological, nothing I could say would make any difference, so I will leave you to your beliefs.Race has no scientific or biological basis to it and it is a social construct, but this does not mean that humans do not look different from each other. The argument you have articulated is one that some people use to justify the notion of race.

So I will politely explain this, there is enormous variation within groups no matter how they are defined. Within what you call "Caucasians" people can be very light or very dark, have various eye colors and so on, some have straight hair and others, Italians, Greeks, Middle Easterners and so on have curly wooly hair. Within Africa and India, people go from very light to very dark and have various facial and hair features, some Africans have very sharply defined features and some "Caucasians" have very roundish faces with big lips and so on. Taking the extreme examples within each group to justify the notion of race is not scientifically valid by any means and you won't find any reputable scientist agreeing with your argument.

Some "whites" look more like some "blacks" than other "whites" and so on.

Many people in England have asked me "what race are you?" because in their mind they can not figure it out and no I am not "mixed race" in the common sense of the word. So arguments like those you have articulated are not actually in any way scientifically valid or clever, it is an argument used to justify the notion of "race" which some people for need to hold on to in order to identify with a socially privileged group.

I did not want to get involved with this debate and will write not more about this.

Hessen Bub

12-27-15, 09:57

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization).

HB.

Neurosynth

12-27-15, 15:38

PussyLiccker

12-27-15, 19:32

OK so Neurosynth took offense to Mr. Ho's comments, and I see where he is coming from. At the same time, Mr. Ho, dished out his comment in a way for somebody to take offense, whether he meant it in a poor sense or not, not clear. Perhaps he was meaning culture, and the way he expresses it can be interpreted in different ways. As far as Race, we can go on with what is correct, and what is not (we can all read the wiki like HB posted. Haha). Social construct for organization. Science is known for organizing things based on observation, and changes throughout time. What is scientific has the word science in it. There are debates in science too, not wholly consensed. Let's leave it at that, and get back to Germany, Germany, Germany. Haha.

I agree with Jackson's statement, and there are topics that can go on tangents in a forum that there is no consensus on the truth.

PussyLiccker

12-27-15, 19:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_1ujgS8bIMYes, I gotcha. Haha. Catchy song.

Citizen Kane

12-27-15, 20:41

Yes, I gotcha. Haha. Catchy song.To be fair PL, you wouldn't catch me there either...

PussyLiccker

12-27-15, 21:08

To be fair PL, you wouldn't catch me there either...Safety is important consideration where I will head out to. I know there are risks to many places, but the chances of risks are higher than others. Thankfully, there are members that are more knowledgeable than I that can warned me on places. It's informative that punters write reports about risky(life threatening) situations they've run into.

Now after reading some reports, safety is important aspect of criteria in determining where I should head to. I will ask about safety if looking to head to unknown places.

Some places even in Europe, you'd run into streetwalkers, meet girls in apartments, and there are risks to it. Risks can mean different things, and you can visit a place which could be considered a risk or I call it gamble, but risk in safty is different from that.

When I was in Madrid, I just stuck to bars/clubs. Didn't want to risk it with streetwalkers.

There are some interesting stories you read about on various destinations. Ending up wrong place at the wrong time. It's also interesting what length of risk punters are willing to take, to find those gems at places. Not worth it for me.

Breadman

12-27-15, 23:40

Looking into booking a flight for next year and one option is to fly into Paris and then drive to Germany, hitting some of the smaller clubs down south before heading up to Frankfurt. Anyone know what type of tolls I might run across? Also are the speeds unlimited like the autobahn? I'd probably stop by either Prestige or Tantra since I'd never get down that way again.

Member #4581

12-28-15, 05:22

Surely, our friend Siri knows this route so well he could do this in his sleep, LOL.

Re: the tolls, I have a different question. I have always paid at the toll booth directly, but do they use electronic toll collection systems like Ez pass much in Europe? None of the rental car operators seem to have it. It has not been a problem for me, and in general, I don't see as many toll roads there as I see here in the US and on the toll roads I drove I did not see the systems set up for EZ pass type things (to be fair, I have not driven extensively all over Europe, but enough) and also have never been held up in long lines at the toll booths, but I am (would be) surprised if they don't use electronic toll collections in many parts of Europe.

Looking into booking a flight for next year and one option is to fly into Paris and then drive to Germany, hitting some of the smaller clubs down south before heading up to Frankfurt. Anyone know what type of tolls I might run across? Also are the speeds unlimited like the autobahn? I'd probably stop by either Prestige or Tantra since I'd never get down that way again.

Hessen Bub

12-28-15, 10:25

Anyone know what type of tolls I might run across? Also are the speeds unlimited like the autobahn? Speed limit on French highways is 130 km / h. Don't know exactly but peage (toll) will be something like 20-30 EUR one way.

HB.

Carpe Viam

12-28-15, 12:53

Breadman

12-28-15, 17:23

Another option is to buy a one way flight to Stuttgart, $54. Leaves 2 hours after I land. Flight to frankfurt departs too early.

Wolvenvacht

12-28-15, 20:20

Surely, our friend Siri knows this route so well he could do this in his sleep, LOL.

Re: the tolls, I have a different question. I have always paid at the toll booth directly, but do they use electronic toll collection systems like Ez pass much in Europe? None of the rental car operators seem to have it. It has not been a problem for me, and in general, I don't see as many toll roads there as I see here in the US and on the toll roads I drove I did not see the systems set up for EZ pass type things (to be fair, I have not driven extensively all over Europe, but enough) and also have never been held up in long lines at the toll booths, but I am (would be) surprised if they don't use electronic toll collections in many parts of Europe.I think France and Italy are the countries where toll roads are a fact of everyday life. Other countries may have the one-off tunnel or high-tech bridge that are toll funded.

I don't know about Scandinavia or East-Europe.

Breadman

12-28-15, 21:15

Try www.viamichelin.com who gives the answer to all of yours questions in one-click.Roughly 28 euro's in tolls and gas around 50 euro's, reason enough to pass on the drive from Paris.

Shark16

12-28-15, 22:31

You have to give me some reasons for this. I wrote a report about Madrid, which you haven't been. Madrid is mixed of Latinas and EEs. Mostly EEs. So, how do you arrive at your recommendation? What makes you think I should head for Colombia instead of Costa Rica? I have been reading about Colombia, and I have decided against it for now based on what I know. Why should I take your word than taking a look myself?1. I have been to SXM and Barcelona and enjoyed the sweet flavour of Colombianas (warning: can be addictive!). I enjoy both places (in different ways), but acknowledge their limitations / flaws. Based on your Madrid reports we can conclude they are not for you.
2. I have friends that have visited both SXM and CR, and other friends that have visited both Barcelona and Madrid. Some have visited both Colombia, SXM and Madrid. Their conclusions (which I find trustworthy) are that SXM and CR are pretty much the same, and Madrid is better than Barcelona and SXM / CR when it comes to slim young chicas ("stunners" according to PL). You were not happy about Madrid. Hmm ...
3. Those with the experience say Colombia is better than Madrid (a treasure when again talking about slim young latinas) IF you do your homework and can cope with language and cultural barriers (including crime).

But you are right. As I have neither been in Madrid, CR nor Colombia my word means little or nothing. But I still think you should read the Colombia (Medellin) reports written by Vitrea and Ultrahappy before making your mind up. AFAIK they are both still alive and kicking ("Medellin survivors"). Pure luck, I guess. LOL.

Breadman

12-28-15, 23:31

But you are right. As I have neither been in Madrid, CR nor Colombia my word means little or nothing. But I still think you should read the Colombia (Medellin) reports written by Vitrea and Ultrahappy before making your mind up. AFAIK they are both still alive and kicking ("Medellin survivors"). Pure luck, I guess. LOL.The key word here is 'survivors'. You've got to be quick on your feet in some of these Latin America backwaters or you'll get mugged right after you get mugged. Safety is ever more important than talent, what good is talent if you spend half your time in the hospital. The key to these places is to hobby with a group if possible. You can get away with going solo but you'll have to be on your toes at all times. One of my buddies got separated from his buddies and was walking down a street in Costa Rica and noticed a group following him in the shadows. Luckily he ducked into a casino and managed to grab a taxi at another entrance. Also read reports that muggings are now happening in broad daylight in Rio right on the beaches. They do have 'casas', small hotel type places in various cities where the owner brings girls to the casa. Staying at these 'resorts' you'll find many likeminded hobbiests who will usually venture out to the disco's in a group for safety. I'd recommend finding these hotels if at all possible.

Breadman

12-29-15, 01:49

I know there are risks to many places, but the chances of risks are higher than others. Thankfully, there are members that are more knowledgeable than I that can warned me on places. It's informative that punters write reports about risky(life threatening) situations they've run into.
Have to ask if you've ever set foot outside your comfort zone, ie Europe since I'm guessing that's where you live. I'm from the states so Mexico and Canada are like staying close to home, its 'safe' knowing you can get home easily or have someone bail you out if needed. Not so if you travel halfway around the world. There is danger and then there is adventure, all depends on how you see it and react to it. Are you adventurous or are you like a buddy of mine who needs someone to hold his hand when traveling to foreign countries? Warnings might not necessarily mean 'don't visit', just plan for something going wrong and know how to deal with it.

Banana Boi

12-29-15, 01:51

Safety is extremely important to me as well. I can't think of a safer playground than a FKK club.

Pattaya felt extremely safe as well as long as you're somewhere along the main baht bus route. There are people everywhere even at 3 am. A bit quieter at 5 am but if you're out at 5 am you're likely with your trusted gogo girl who will fight for you so there are no worries then.

Member #4581

12-30-15, 18:50

Posting here, since the topic is more generic and not specific to Dietz in anyway now. Not that this had not been beaten to death. After several rounds of discussion, it is clear that few people change sides or their own mid. Tippers will continue to do so, non Tippers continue not to, and girls of all stripes would love to receive them but only some will ask for them outright. One thing I will say though. While most of the non tippers focus their points on whether tipping leads to any beneficial change in future services, one aspect they don't seem to consider is that many tippers tip for their own sake and not necessarily in anticipation of some future benefit. You tip because it feels good to tip, you felt good about a service or felt the girl deserved the tip due to some other attribute.

One extreme is the tipping practice in US restaurants. You are almost an outcast, worse than a molester, if you fail to tip a min of 15% and often more. There is enormous peer pressure, especially among the middle and upper middle classes. Plus, the fact that restaurants workers are paid less than minimum wages and make up through tips adds to this societal pressure. I have always hated this. Even when the service is totally abysmal, we need to tip 15% minimum, or else you get all around dirty looks. I try to go against this to some extent, and vary my tips between 10-20%. It is a tip, a measure of my happiness about the service, and I think it makes sense to vary it as the service goes.

Ditto in fkks. Do I feel that my half HR with Coco at Sharks was equal to another half HR from Aylice? No way. I would feel lousy if I paid the same to both. Yes, I will take more sessions with Aylice than Coco in future, but that does not change that Coco gets paid equal to Aylice for an inferior product / service delivered. If I end up tipping, which I might or might not do, it is for me.

McAdonis

12-30-15, 20:09

Do I feel that my half HR with Coco at Sharks was equal to another half HR from Aylice? No way. I would feel lousy if I paid the same to both. Yes, I will take more sessions with Aylice than Coco in future, but that does not change that Coco gets paid equal to Aylice for an inferior product / service delivered. If I end up tipping, which I might or might not do, it is for me.We could say the same about hotels. I've paid equal for inferior products / services. I just refuse my future patronage.

I tip when I go way over time. Off the top of my head, I've tipped three girls that I knew I would never see again.

PussyLiccker

12-31-15, 02:43

Have to ask if you've ever set foot outside your comfort zone, ie Europe since I'm guessing that's where you live. I'm from the states so Mexico and Canada are like staying close to home, its 'safe' knowing you can get home easily or have someone bail you out if needed. Not so if you travel halfway around the world. There is danger and then there is adventure, all depends on how you see it and react to it. Are you adventurous or are you like a buddy of mine who needs someone to hold his hand when traveling to foreign countries? Warnings might not necessarily mean 'don't visit', just plan for something going wrong and know how to deal with it.Breadman,

I'm living the good life in Europe in my 60's, bald, with a bit of a beer gut (on a diet though), but I get lots of love by the FKK girls, so I'm happy. You may see me at times at Sharks sitting close to Janine. Don't get asked about hand holding by guys, but if you are offering, I will have to politely decline. Don't hold hands.

You young bucks are living on the edge with your travels to all those exotic countries! Live it while you're young. I'm happy with attending my FKK clubs, drinking my juices, eating the grubs, and relaxing with the fine Romanian ladies.

Take care.

PL.

Breadman

12-31-15, 21:26

You young bucks are living on the edge with your travels to all those exotic countries! Live it while you're young. I'm happy with attending my FKK clubs, drinkin my juices, eating the grubs, and relaxin with the fine Romanian ladies.
Take care.
PL.Nothing wrong with sticking to the FKK's, especially while you can still do it. Have a buddy who's coming on 60 and his idea of action is to get some lapdances and cum in his pants. Then he's minutes from the Canadian border and legalized outcall and he's too afraid to cross over the border on his own. I keep telling him he only has so many more years left before things will start going to pot.

Breadman

12-31-15, 21:30

What's the 'average' price for a one bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood in Frankfurt? Just curious.

Mr Ho

01-01-16, 02:14

Breadman,

I'm livin the good life in Europe in my 60's, bald, with a bit of a beer gut (on a diet though), but I get lots of love by the FKK girls, so I'm happy. You may see me at times at Sharks sitting close to Janine. Don't get asked about hand holding by guys, but if you are offering, I will have to politely decline. Don't hold hands.

You young bucks are living on the edge with your travels to all those exotic countries! Live it while you're young. I'm happy with attending my FKK clubs, drinkin my juices, eating the grubs, and relaxin with the fine Romanian ladies.

Take care.

PL.My hat off to you Mr Pussylicker! I hope at your age of 60's, I will be still able to do what you are doing rocking in FKK.

I am in my mid 30's and I am fortunate enough to live in the generation when we can get plenty of beautiful girls from different part of the world for just 50/60 Euro per 30 min at one stop secure location called FKK.

I hope such system will last till I become my age 60's and I hope I physically last as well till then LOL.

Happy new mongering year to all the dedicate pro mongers around the world! Another year of adding new young beautiful girls to our list of sexual conquer !

UltraHappy

01-01-16, 02:58

What's the 'average' price for a one bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood in Frankfurt? Just curious.The German system of counting bedrooms counts the living room (Wohnzimmer) and each bedroom (Schlafzimmer). So, in German, you are actually inquiring about a two room apartment. I will assume you are inquiring about an unfurnished apartment.

600-900 Euros is possible in many areas around Frankfurt. Much higher rents than that are obviously possible but for 500-800 Euros a month, you could probably find something adequate. Sachsenhausen is a nice neighborhood for example. So is Bad Homburg, but a little far from central Frankfurt, but not too far. Bockenheim is generally regarded as a nice neighborhood. Offenbach is a little sketchy for example. Konstablerwache is very sketchy and you could actually get places less than this there but then you are living in tight quarters with lots of immigrants, loud, children running around, worrying about getting robbed walking down the street, etc.

You can search the immobilier listings online for example to get an idea of rents. Keep in mind that German rents are divided into Warmmiete (warm rent) and Kaltmiete (cold rent). Warm means everything (utilities) are included in the quoted rent price, and Cold means you pay heat, electricity, etc separately.

More common is Kaltmiete (cold rent).

Also keep in mind that German apartments typically come with no kitchen (yes, even without the cupboards). You have to pay someone to install a new kitchen in your apartment! (or pay the previous owner a transfer fee to keep their old kitchen). It is also typical that the previous owner will take their carpeting with them so you will have to install all new carpeting if the apt is not hard wood floors.

You will have to pay a Makler fee (agent commission) which typically runs around 1 months rent (or sometimes more), EVEN IF you find the apartment all on your own without the help of a Makler!

Yes, the German system is a little odd (at least from the American perspective). Apartments are so much easier in the States.

Rent is way cheaper in Berlin by the way.

Breadman

01-01-16, 17:25

The German system of counting bedrooms counts the living room (Wohnzimmer) and each bedroom (Schlafzimmer). So, in German, you are actually inquiring about a two room apartment. I will assume you are inquiring about an unfurnished apartment.

600-900 Euros is possible in many areas around Frankfurt. Much higher rents than that are obviously possible but for 500-800 Euros a month, you could probably find something adequate. Sachsenhausen is a nice neighborhood for example. So is Bad Homburg, but a little far from central Frankfurt, but not too far. Bockenheim is generally regarded as a nice neighborhood. Offenbach is a little sketchy for example. Konstablerwache is very sketchy and you could actually get places less than this there but then you are living in tight quarters with lots of immigrants, loud, children running around, worrying about getting robbed walking down the street, etc.

You can search the immobilier listings online for example to get an idea of rents. Keep in mind that German rents are divided into Warmmiete (warm rent) and Kaltmiete (cold rent). Warm means everything (utilities) are included in the quoted rent price, and Cold means you pay heat, electricity, etc separately.

More common is Kaltmiete (cold rent).

Also keep in mind that German apartments typically come with no kitchen (yes, even without the cupboards). You have to pay someone to install a new kitchen in your apartment! (or pay the previous owner a transfer fee to keep their old kitchen). It is also typical that the previous owner will take their carpeting with them so you will have to install all new carpeting if the apt is not hard wood floors.

You will have to pay a Makler fee (agent commission) which typically runs around 1 months rent (or sometimes more), EVEN IF you find the apartment all on your own without the help of a Makler!

Yes, the German system is a little odd (at least from the American perspective). Apartments are so much easier in the States.

Rent is way cheaper in Berlin by the way.I know about the German system of removing everything nailed down in the house or apartment, helped a buddy and his girlfriend move several years ago and remember all those bare wires hanging from light sockets as they were taking all their wall mounted lights with them to their new home. Then down came the kitchen cabinets and countertop. Wonder if anyone here ever found this out firsthand when moving to Germany? That would be a shock to see bare walls and nothing else upon moving in. Now paying an agent fee and not using an agent sounds ludicrous.

My inquiry has to do with retirement (not that I'll be doing that anytime soon), but never hurts to look into the options. The idea would be to move close to one club, either Sharks or Oase, and be able to visit the other clubs in the area on occasion without much difficulty. Another option might be to find a house with a room to rent.

I have looked (only slightly) into renting an apartment in Thailand (mainly Pattaya) and found one bedroom (two rooms) apartments in the 200 euro range. Would be nice to be able to move between the two locations if possible, summer in Germany and winter in Thailand.

Optimist

01-01-16, 18:22

UltraHappy

01-02-16, 00:21

I know about the German system of removing everything nailed down in the house or apartment, helped a buddy and his girlfriend move several years ago and remember all those bare wires hanging from light sockets as they were taking all their wall mounted lights with them to their new home. Then down came the kitchen cabinets and countertop. Wonder if anyone here ever found this out firsthand when moving to Germany? That would be a shock to see bare walls and nothing else upon moving in. Now paying an agent fee and not using an agent sounds ludicrous.

My inquiry has to do with retirement (not that I'll be doing that anytime soon), but never hurts to look into the options. The idea would be to move close to one club, either Sharks or Oase, and be able to visit the other clubs in the area on occasion without much difficulty. Another option might be to find a house with a room to rent.

I have looked (only slightly) into renting an apartment in Thailand (mainly Pattaya) and found one bedroom (two rooms) apartments in the 200 euro range. Would be nice to be able to move between the two locations if possible, summer in Germany and winter in Thailand.This is a little more complicated. Are you going to just rent for 3 months at a time? Or, do you plan on renting year-round and leaving your apartment vacant for 3 months at a time? If you rent year-round, then you are wasting rent money for an unused apartment.

Short term rentals around 3 month time frame will be difficult in Germany. For this, you might be better off using AirBnB and renting a room here and there over your three month period. AirBNB rates vary from $30-50/ night. So, that's $900-1,500/ month. You could probably get a discount when renting for an entire month. With AirBNB, the places you are staying are already furnished, so you don't have to worry about that. The other advantage of AirBNB in Germany is the ability to move around whenever you want. You aren't fixed at a particular apartment. So, you can do NRW for 1 month, Hessen the next month, and NRW for the last month before heading back to Thailand.

The other advantage of visiting as a tourist for 3 months at a time is that you won't have to declare your residency in Germany, which may be advantageous to you from a tax standpoint. From a tax standpoint, you are probably better off establishing a permanent residency elsewhere and then just visiting for 3 months at a time. The disadvantage of this approach is that you won't be able to stay in the Schengen area more than 90 days in any 180 day rolling period.

Consider adding Medellin, Colombia to your rotation. So, 3 months Germany, then 3 months, Thailand, then 3 months Colombia, 2 weeks repatriation to US for supplies, etc. Wash, rinse, repeat!

Have you thought about what you will do for transportation while in Germany during these 3 month stints? Have you considered how your pension, etc will be taxed in the various jurisdictions you are contemplating establishing residency in?

Member #4581

01-02-16, 00:24

Seems like many Romanian girls would rather not admit to being Romaninan, claiming to be Spanish or Italian or whatever else, and when they admit to be from Romania, would then lie about being gypsy. So, some one says here that most Romanian girls in the clubs are indeed gypsy, and then others say most Romanians hate gypsy. A bit like J Edgar Hoover who hated gays and pursued a anti homosexual agenda for years in his public persona and was then found to be gay in his own personal life. I have no idea who is gypsy or not, don't care one bit, but one time I was in the room with Roxana and Larissa in the room, and they were doing their time wasting tactics, and Roxana starts playing some gypsy song on her phone and they both start dancing. And that was the second or third time I heard a gypsy song on her phone. If non gypsies hate gypsy music, does that mean blond Roxana was gypsy? I guessed her hair color was fake, but would not have guessed she was gypsy in any way.

BTW, throughout history, people found it convenient to scape goat, stereo type and persecute some sub groups. I don't think that was ever the right thing to do, but that does not mean it will not keep happening.

Banana Boi

01-02-16, 01:35

McAdonis

01-02-16, 01:36

Being a discriminated minority, Gypsies would be overrepresented in criminal enterprises. The same enterprises that would be recruiting young girls and persuading them to work in Western Europe. So even if said WG is 100% Romanian, she would have many close associations with Gypsies.

My observations mirror Optimist. Most "cultured" Romanians seem to distance themselves from gypsies. Basing that on university educated Romanians that I have met who now live and work in Western Europe.

Pistons

01-02-16, 01:38

Roxana is deffinately a traveller (I find this word more describing). I know at least 5-6 others at oase who deffinately are as well (and most likely you can at least double or triple that number) And about 10 at Artemis (+++) Other clubs I am not too familliar with who is and who isn't, but it doesn't matter much.

McAdonis

01-02-16, 02:14

Now paying an agent fee and not using an agent sounds ludicrous.

In major German cities, there are major housing shortages hence the need for an agent. Homeowner or flat owner doesn't want to field hundreds of phone calls, so they hire an agent. Agents fee is paid by the eventual renter. If you lived further from the city, you probably won't run into these fees.

Mr Ho

01-02-16, 03:39

In major German cities, there are major housing shortages hence the need for an agent. Homeowner or flat owner doesn't want to field hundreds of phone calls, so they hire an agent. Agents fee is paid by the eventual renter. If you lived further from the city, you probably won't run into these fees.Living near FKK sharks would be far enough from the city. I went there for first time last summer in 2015 and I decided to walk from Nord station. It was such a long walk in middle of kinda no where and I got lost in some camping site like farm gated community housings near FKK sharks LOL I was so ashamed that I could not asked the residents there where FKK shark was and took me like one hour of walk to eventually found FKK sharks LOL The area seemed pretty far enough place from city to me and did not seemed like commuting bed town area of Frankfurt LOL.

PussyLiccker

01-02-16, 16:36

PL. Replying to your comment in the Oase thread. Yes there is a link between gypsies and Manele. Almost all Manele artists are gypsy as is the audience. In the clubs almost all gypsies will like Manele, whereas most other Romanians say they don't like it, or, if pushed, will say they only play it at parties. To like Manele marks one out as uncultured.
Ok, that's what I would expect, but I'm still curious if the young Romanians we meet at the clubs, no matter if Gypsy or not, would be into Manele. If it is generally a popular genre with the young girls. At Samya and Mondial it get's played so often, and even at Aca, I've see girls request it, and you see some of them them get up, and do the dance. But, of course they get encouraged to dance as well, no matter what music is playing (ie Turkish or Manele). But, what is apparent is the type of dance. If they are fans of the music, they get really into it. I dunno about now, but when I used to hangout at the lounge on cocktail nights at Oase, girls would request Manele, and that would really lift up the mood, and some girls would get into dancing.

Since the topic of Gypsies got brought up, I'm curious what the percentage of them are in the clubs. I guess we can't be certain who is gypsy or not, but perhaps there is common characteristics like their looks. I tend to take interest in certain Ro girls over others(looks and interaction), but who knows if they are gypsy or not. I did take a girl who outright told me she was one who I thought was pretty.

Christian G

01-02-16, 18:28

Living near FKK sharks would be far enough from the city. I went there for first time last summer in 2015 and I decided to walk from Nord station. It was such a long walk in middle of kinda no where and I got lost in some camping site like farm gated community housings near FKK sharks LOL Probably we have a different yardstick. Long walk from Darmstadt North Station to FKK Sharks?! LOL It's just 1 km or 1,2 km and in every crossroad you can see a sign for FKK Sharks. Easy that you took a wrong way.

Banana Boi

01-02-16, 20:05

I was so ashamed that I could not asked the residents there where FKK shark was and took me like one hour of walk to eventually found FKK sharks LOL Pretty sure everyone in Darmstadt who saw an Asian guy walking around Sharks knew EXACTLY where you were going.

XXL

01-02-16, 20:09

Pretty sure everyone in Darmstadt who saw an Asian guy walking around Sharks knew EXACTLY where you were going.If you ask directions in Japanese or Chinese in that area the locals direct you to Sharks without thinking twice about it.

Member #4581

01-02-16, 21:21

LOL.

At least Darmstadt is a bit bigger. In freidrichsdorf, people have me figured out from the get go. A couple of times, as soon as I got down at the train station and asked the cabbie to take me to the Mercure, he says "what time do you plan to go to the club, I can come over to pick you up". I was dressed up well too, in a nice blazer and slacks, so why did n't he think I was in the area for some business deal? I must have "perverted punter" stamped all over my face, lol.

Pretty sure everyone in Darmstadt who saw an Asian guy walking around Sharks knew EXACTLY where you were going.

Mr Ho

01-02-16, 23:06

Pretty sure everyone in Darmstadt who saw an Asian guy walking around Sharks knew EXACTLY where you were going.LOL.

Yeah man, it was in summer and it was really hot summer in 2015 leaching around 40 degree, and many barbecue people out in this you know one of those semi gated camping car like or cabin house with little farm attached and they must have thought that, but I cannot just go up to them middle of barbecue and say do you know where the FKK sharks is? LOL So I walked toward direction where there seemed to be some kinda civilization and found it after like 40 min or one hour. It was so hot and sweaty walk looking for Oasis kinda thing. And I did not like the LU at sharks that much. Though LU seemed younger in general than other major FKK and service was good with two girls I went with. More strict rule to be nicer to clients and do not up sell at sharks than other FKK?

Next time, I will get off at Darmstadt, I got off at Darmstadt nord, it is a lot longer walk than it looked on Google map!

Mr Ho

01-02-16, 23:09

If you ask directions in Japanese or Chinese in that area the locals direct you to Sharks without thinking twice about it.Yeah also that odd awkward moment in Berlin. When I walk from Westkreuz to Artemis and I pass by jogger or walkers or pedestrian by that main road leading to Artemis LOL I should pretend I am jogging or something with my clothes on LOL.

Optimist

01-03-16, 12:45

Optimist

01-03-16, 12:48

The hardest thing to get used to is knowing that if you are going to a club, nobody will bat an eyelid. I used to walk to World and all the local dog walkers and joggers used to say Hello,. The first time I got a taxi to FKK I was a bundle of nerves.

Hessen Bub

01-03-16, 13:16

Non gypsy girls hate manele. They don't speak to good about gypsies.

HB.

Mr Ho

01-03-16, 13:21

Non gypsy girls hate manele. They don't speak to good about gypsies.

HB.I very often meet Italian and Spanish girls who speak Romanians in FKK.

Wolvenvacht

01-03-16, 14:00

Yeah also that odd awkward moment in Berlin. When I walk from Westkreuz to Artemis and I pass by jogger or walkers or pedestrian by that main road leading to Artemis LOL I should pretend I am jogging or something with my clothes on LOL.The men passing by are just jealous and the women will wonder why you go there rather than coming with them. ;)

It is the same when in Thailand or Singapore and you bring your first bargirl to your hotel room. The dreaded "walk of shame". But actually the people at the reception desk couldn't care less. They just check the girl's ID card and off you go. Even those cute reception girls don't look at you any different the next day when you wave your companion goodbye and get another one.

UltraHappy

01-03-16, 15:02

LOL.

Yeah man, it was in summer and it was really hot summer in 2015 leaching around 40 degree, and many barbecue people out in this you know one of those semi gated camping car like or cabin house with little farm attached and they must have thought that, but I cannot just go up to them middle of barbecue and say do you know where the FKK sharks is? LOL

Next time, I will get off at Darmstadt, I got off at Darmstadt nord, it is a lot longer walk than it looked on Google map!You could have also walked up to the barbecue people and asked them where you can find a taxi if you didn't want to ask them where Sharks was. Then have your friendly taxi guy take you to your destination.

You can also use the Uber app on your phone to summon assistance next time. Of course, if you have your phone with you, why not just use Google Maps?

PussyLiccker

01-03-16, 15:12

PL. You ask how many interested in manele. If you ask them they will tell you. Almost 100% of gypsies, but maybe only 25% (wild guess) of non gypsies, who prefer Romanian dance (DJ Project, Delia, Ruby, Adrian Sina etc). I have manele and dance videos with me, so, as a result the girls usually let me know their music tastes.I wanted to see what other's experiences were regarding gypsies. I practically don't have any, so was quite interested when the topic got brought up. I don't mean gypsies in the derogatory sense either. I don't have prejudiced against gypsies since I haven't run into them enough, or I don't have a clear idea which ones are at clubs. The Ro girls that happens to be gypsy was an interesting occurrence. Why would a girl outright say she is one during presales? It seemed she was uninhibited about what she was willing to share about her self, which is good IMO. The more she shares, it gives a punter a connection with the girl, and also by telling me that she was a gypsy, just tells me she was being very straight forward with herself. I don't expect girls to open up about themselves as this is business transaction I'm doing. As long as her service is honest, don't cheat in time, provides good enough services, I'm satisfied, but I could be happier. Haha.

Based on what I'm used to listening to, Manele is too different. It does sound crude, and the music videos are low production to say to be polite. Haha. I got more used to the genre as I attend the clubs that plays them. Have not been a fan myself, but it's apparent that girls that listen to them, thinks highly of the genre, and it will lift up their mood. So, I can see why you'd play them to see what response you'd get. Haha.

Vito Corleone

01-03-16, 15:17

McAdonis

01-03-16, 16:08

No such thing as 100% gypsy I am guessing. I wouldn't mind as the east Indian look doesn't bother me. Its more their behavior.

In general, just about all the WGs regardless of where they come from associate with shady characters.

Hessen Bub

01-03-16, 16:36

Ask for Hornbach or the SEAT dealer.

HB.

PussyLiccker

01-03-16, 17:58

Everyone at Laluna must be gypsies as that Manele crap is all they listen to all day. The same 4-5 songs!I actually read something about Laluna started by a Romanian, I think ex-WG if I'm correct.

who prefer Romanian dance (DJ Project, Delia, Ruby, Adrian Sina etc). Listened to some, interesting to know what type of music they listen to. The only ones I know are old stuff I'm used to at clubs.

Antonia Iacobescu got played at Oase I recall, she's hot. Hahaha.

She's very cute, and she speaks English well because she grew up in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkTNpzIrWyU

I recall Morena from Oase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_-80TmKkCw

The other is Alexandra Stan that got overplayed (this is stuck in my head as club music. Haha).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS76eS34Y0c

Both very sexy Romy womenz. Haha. I don't know any of the recent hits though.

Optimist

01-03-16, 19:53

Everyone at Laluna must be gypsies as that Manele crap is all they listen to all day. The same 4-5 songs!All gypsy. Sometimes they dance all together to traditional Romanian gypsy music rather than manele. That really is a party for them. Sometimes they play some songs in romanian which are very like Indian traditional music, but I haven't found any of it on You Tube.

Mr Ho

01-03-16, 21:49

You could have also walked up to the barbecue people and asked them where you can find a taxi if you didn't want to ask them where Sharks was. Then have your friendly taxi guy take you to your destination.

You can also use the Uber app on your phone to summon assistance next time. Of course, if you have your phone with you, why not just use Google Maps?I did use Google map, I got off at Darmstadt nord, and tried to cut across park looking thing toward kinda garage / car industry area where FKK shark is on Google map. It all looked close on the Google map, so I thought it is close like FKK Artemis or palace is from station. But it turned out to be the beginning of my about 45 minutes walk under heavy sun LOL The park looking thing on Google map turned out to be some big residential community where you see these little log houses with little firms and some camping cars that are used to live there. And believe me man, there ain't no taxi or Uber there LOL.

Anyways now I know better way, I can be ready to walk to there or get off at Darmstadt and just take a cab. The thing is LU of shark was not that solid, I did find one girl that I really liked and another that is also good, but LU was not that solid as I read on thread. However, I do not know I got lucky, but I did find girls in FKK sharks less shark, no up sell and excellent service and they tend to be younger LU than other clubs. Maybe because of this is the reason, maybe they are young and new in industry that made them friendly and provide better service than other major FKK. Normally if LU is not good, it makes me not to want to return to such a FKK, but I think best is to willing to throw away your entry fees and do two FKK per day meaning goto sharks if it is good stay, if not do one girl and move to palace or if time permit even Oase on the other side of town.

I still have to try GT in near Düsseldorf, but I am beginning to think all FKK is similar for LU beside Palace and Artemis being more pro industry girl dominated mix LU and sharks / Oase being mixed, but more younger LU.

Member #4581

01-03-16, 22:45

Hessen Bub

01-03-16, 22:51

How do you prove that somebody got turned away based on ethnic / racial basis?

HB.

Ararat

01-03-16, 23:14

It's actually pretty easy and has been done at nightclubs that are thought to discriminate in my homeland. You send a clean, polite non-white person there first and listen to the excuses. Then soon after a white person is allowed in and you have your case.

If you are the owner and don't wish to argue that certain ethnics can't behave and therefore can't be admitted you are screwed. I'd say you're screwed if you tried to argue that too.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure that not many of the social justice warriors and/or authorities would help out when someone is denied entry to a brothel.

The Cane

01-04-16, 00:15

How do you prove that somebody got turned away based on ethnic / racial basis?

HB.Claims that something like this cannot be proven are nonsense and serve only to allow the discrimination to continue unchecked. Ararat describes a simple approach that has been used time and again in the United States to expose such things as discrimination in housing.

Here's how I went about it in Thailand to expose discrimination in mongering: 1816063. Going into my "experiment", I had an idea which places in Bangkok were problematic, but it was all random in Pattaya and Phuket, with the same kind of Bangkok tactics being used (members only) whenever they didn't want to let an "undesirable" in. I had no problems in Phuket, as you shall find from the field report I wrote.

The bottom line is that in many situations, discrimination can be proven pretty easily if you want to prove it. Or, you can just as easily turn a blind eye to it. What I have said time and again is that proving it is often not the real issue. The issue is what can be done about the discriminatory practices once they have been exposed. We have laws on the books here in the United States, and they are enforced. Other countries, such as Colombia for example, have laws on the books but they are not enforced. And then I suppose there are plenty of other countries where racial / ethnic discrimination is just an accepted part of every day living.

I know that Germany has some pretty strict laws, and that a good job is done with enforcement. I don't know how those laws would apply to what goes down at GT, a place I got into, but I don't know. Maybe nobody really gives a damn about a trick of color not being able to get into a house of prostitution, which is considered to be a place of ill-repute by most of society anyway. For any of you reading this who failed to get into GT, or who fear you might not get in, let me assure you that you aren't missing anything! Well, the food was good, but there are many other FKKs with stronger line-ups and much better facilities. Trust me!

Member #4581

01-04-16, 01:51

I can't, and I did not.

I said very clearly I never even visited the club yet. But several mothers said so, and not just recently but several times over the last 2,3 of years I have been reading isg. My question (it was a question and not a statement) was based on their claim.

Are you saying they never do so, I. E. Turn away on the basis of race or ethnicity? If so, then my question is moot, and it would mean their claims were false.

But if they do in fact deny entry and service to customers on the basis of race / ethnicity, my question still stands.

How do you prove that somebody got turned away based on ethnic / racial basis?

HB.

Member #4581

01-04-16, 01:57

Not sure what is your homeland.

I am aware this practice is supposed to be more widespread in Asian countries. Japan and Thailand are 2 examples. But again, I never visited, this is based on what people say here.

Japan is a modern law abiding democracy, so I don't know how such discrimination is legal there. That said, given that Japan is a very insular society, I would not be shocked if the rights of people explicitly were based in race, but I would be very surprised that Germany has any such discrimination enshrined, as it is a very open Western democracy. Anyway, this is my personal view, I could be quite wrong.

I am less interested in Thailand because laws sometimes exist only on paper in third world.

To your last statement, I disagree. Prostitution is legal in Nevada but I don't think any establishment would be able to get away denying admission to certain races. There are even fewer social justice warriors protecting the rights of mongers in the US, a notoriously uptight society in these matters, but if ever a club systematically denied entry to a certain race on a such basis, it would be shut down pronto.

pS. Proving is pretty darned easy, if a group of activists were determined to prove it, especially in this day of smartphones. Obviously the club management would not deny admission with the words "your race is xyz, you can't get in" but such direct verbal confirmation is not required. If the club management indeed enforces this 100%, video evidence gathered by a few dozen activists (mixing up time of entry, appearance, demeanor, and race, and other ambient factors) would be pretty tight circumstantial evidence.

It's actually pretty easy and has been done at nightclubs that are thought to discriminate in my homeland. You send a clean, polite non-white person there first and listen to the excuses. Then soon after a white person is allowed in and you have your case.

If you are the owner and don't wish to argue that certain ethnics can't behave and therefore can't be admitted you are screwed. I'd say you're screwed if you tried to argue that too.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure that not many of the social justice warriors and/or authorities would help out when someone is denied entry to a brothel.

PussyLiccker

01-04-16, 02:32

You'd have to gather up what their responses are for denying entry. That would give some insight into their excuses. I've been attending GT for a long time, so I see stuff, and have pondered about this too.

The club is not a mega sized club, the lounge smaller than what people would expect coming out of Hessen.(check out the images on the website) The club gets good business as it has it's peak times during the day-evening, busier days, etc. The wait for keys to the rooms can be really long due to this reason. So, there is enough demand in the region from the nearby visitors (Belgian, Dutch, Germans, Japanese). They are still a business, and if they continue to apply the door policy, that would mean they are not hurting for business with such practice. Although I have seen some minorities (very minor like 1-2 persons at a visit), the chances of getting in is during non-busy times (like around the time they open), with a buddy that is recognized as a regular, or somebody that fits the profile to get in without being questioned. They don't like large groups entering from what I've gathered. When the business is at it's peak, highly likely they would discriminate who enter, and likely make room for regulars given the amount of personal they could support. I've heard they will question a folk if they fit a profile. I have seen a Dutch regular that is Indian attend quite a few times, and I'm sure he attends on his own. He is known by the reception ladies I believe, so no problems for him.

UltraHappy

01-04-16, 03:12

"No Foreigners: Nightclubs Accused of Racist Door Policies" (http://goo.gl/VG27Et).

Excerpt: Four weeks ago, the Hanover District Court awarded the student 1,000 ($1,325) in compensation. Judge Birgit Passoke found that the club's rejection of Murat at the door violated the General Equal Treatment Law of 2006, which prohibits discrimination based on a number of factors including ethnic origin, religion and sexual orientation. She wrote in her decision that the evidence proved that "while the plaintiff was refused entry to the nightclub, guests without a recognizable immigrant background were able to enter. ".

"Germany's nightclubs called out for racism" (http://goo.gl/SFmLyO).

Excerpt: "This is how he did it. With a group of friends some, like himself, members of Munich's Foreigners' Advisory Council Dipama tried to get into one nightclub after the other. Of the 25 clubs they paid a visit to, 20 turned him and his minority ethnic friends away. Shortly after they were rejected typical excuses were "it's a private party" and "you need a reservation" white German friends also involved in the experiment were let in without problems. Now Dipama is suing six of the clubs for a symbolic 500 worth of damages, under a German law that forbids the exclusion of anyone from public life (including nightclubs) because of their ethnic origin. The first trial there have to be individual cases opened for each club began this week. ".

How to prove a discrimination claim under EU law? (http://goo.gl/yIww9Z).

So, we just need a few volunteers to go on record in court as being denied entry to GT. Any volunteers? (and therein lies the problem in this instance).

Samplerr

01-04-16, 03:25

pS. Proving is pretty darned easy, if a group of activists were determined to prove it, especially in this day of smartphones. Obviously the club management would not deny admission with the words "your race is xyz, you can't get in" but such direct verbal confirmation is not required. If the club management indeed enforces this 100%, video evidence gathered by a few dozen activists (mixing up time of entry, appearance, demeanor, and race, and other ambient factors) would be pretty tight circumstantial evidence.Your 'activist' scenario is a bit reality challenged.

Member #4581

01-04-16, 03:33

You think so, huh?!

In the US, pre civil right days, and for several years later, several restaurants and other commercial establishments used to routinely deny entry, not serve, and discriminate in myriad ways. Not many of the owners and managements explicitly said "this is based on race, sexual orientation, etc etc".

Yet, through circumstantial evidence alone, all of them got hit on the head, and very few do any such thing now. In the early 90's Denny's was rumored to provide "late service" to minorities. And that was pre smartphone days. And not to every single black customer either. A few cases were enough to bring them into line. Now Denny's is pretty good for everyone.

I have no idea about German legal landscape. But I am hundred percent confident that any legal brothel in the US, if it denied entry to any race/ethnic group on a systematic basis, would not have its license for long.

Your 'activist' scenario is a bit reality challenged.

Member #4581

01-04-16, 03:42

Thanks UH.

This is exactly how I was envisioning it, but you provided an actual proven example.

I think you also answered my question. I guess it is indeed illegal, so my guess is, with further such cases, this will be taken care of.

"No Foreigners: Nightclubs Accused of Racist Door Policies" (http://goo.gl/VG27Et).

Excerpt: Four weeks ago, the Hanover District Court awarded the student 1,000 ($1,325) in compensation. Judge Birgit Passoke found that the club's rejection of Murat at the door violated the General Equal Treatment Law of 2006, which prohibits discrimination based on a number of factors including ethnic origin, religion and sexual orientation. She wrote in her decision that the evidence proved that "while the plaintiff was refused entry to the nightclub, guests without a recognizable immigrant background were able to enter. ".

"Germany's nightclubs called out for racism" (http://goo.gl/SFmLyO).

Excerpt: "This is how he did it. With a group of friends some, like himself, members of Munich's Foreigners' Advisory Council Dipama tried to get into one nightclub after the other. Of the 25 clubs they paid a visit to, 20 turned him and his minority ethnic friends away. Shortly after they were rejected typical excuses were "it's a private party" and "you need a reservation" white German friends also involved in the experiment were let in without problems. Now Dipama is suing six of the clubs for a symbolic 500 worth of damages, under a German law that forbids the exclusion of anyone from public life (including nightclubs) because of their ethnic origin. The first trial there have to be individual cases opened for each club began this week. ".

How to prove a discrimination claim under EU law? (http://goo.gl/yIww9Z).

So, we just need a few volunteers to go on record in court as being denied entry to GT. Any volunteers? (and therein lies the problem in this instance).

The Cane

01-04-16, 03:48

How to prove a discrimination claim under EU law? (http://goo.gl/yIww9Z).

So, we just need a few volunteers to go on record in court as being denied entry to GT. Any volunteers? (and therein lies the problem in this instance).So, now who is going to step forward and do this for an FKK sauna club? Not me! Some dance club somewhere is one thing, but to expose the discrimination of a house of prostitution in this way is to expose oneself as a purveyor of the "tutedom" within said walls! And nobody else is going to do it for us. Nobody really cares that a John can't get any pussy. So GT will continue to get away with its bullshit discriminatory door practices until somebody to challenge them on it, thereby revealing that they themselves patronize prostitutes.

UltraHappy

01-04-16, 04:01

Thanks UH.

This is exactly how I was envisioning it, but you provided an actual proven example.

I think you also answered my question. I guess it is indeed illegal, so my guess is, with further such cases, this will be taken care of.My point was that GT's discriminatory door policy will probably never be challenged due to the unwillingness of plaintiffs to bring complaints against GT. What guy wants to go on legal record as complaining of discrimination due to lack of entry into a brothel? Most of the people that GT discriminates against don't have the wherewithal to challenge GT's door policy (money, understanding of the legal system, patience, etc).

Luckily, those who skip GT in their club rotation aren't missing anything. There are lots of reasons to skip GT: (1) no under 21 year old girls allowed anymore, (2) non-transparent, seemingly discriminatory door policy (even though this policy does not apply to me), (3) prevalence of gaytime (high room waits) , and now (4) no showers for the girls in the girl locker room.

Happily, plenty of other good alternatives exist. The only thing folks are missing out on by skipping GT is their pretty decent food. I will give them that -- I enjoyed the meals there.

Member #4581

01-04-16, 04:32

Well you could be right UH, but if GT indeed discriminates strictly on race, ethnicity, etc, it is bound to pi$$ off someone with the means and willing to fight. Fo example, a German citizen of Turkish origin, single and well off and not shy. That is just one example.

So much depends on the local prosecutors to bring cases and enforce laws. Cases don't always have to be filed by victims alone.

And what is the cost to the club as well. I remember Denny's settled for several millions. And again, it was not as if Denny's blanket refused entry, it was just more of a delayed service; if Denny's had simply refused to let black people in, their fine might have been much bigger.

Thousand euro might not bother GT much, but a much bigger fine due to systematic discrimination and several past offenses, it might reconsider.

Anyway, I am pretty happy to stay with my beloved Sharks and Oase, this is more of an academic discussion for me, but this came up in other threads and I can imagine it is not an academic discussion for the poor sap who drives all the way there and gets told to bug off.

PussyLiccker

01-04-16, 05:41

Luckily, those who skip GT in their club rotation aren't missing anything.
Happily, plenty of other good alternatives exist. The only thing folks are missing out on by skipping GT is their pretty decent food. I will give them that -- I enjoyed the meals there.We all have our reasons for attending certain clubs, although I'm a bit different. I do jump around a lot visiting various clubs on my trips.

When was the last time you've attended GT? I've recently attended, and had good visits there. For me, most important factor is what girls are there on particular visits for my personal taste, and this goes for any club. Reports vary, and some people will write more positively about one club over another for reasons of what they find most important. That 21 yr thing has been mentioned in the past, but I do find exceptions with a few girls that I know. Kenza (Po) is the most recent girl that started at GT at 19 supposedly. Teeny girls arn't that important for me. Don't find the girl has to be a teeny for me to take interest. There are girls that look very good that are mid 20's at GT. Most of the girls I tend to take are 25 or under though. GT was definately worth visiting on my last trip. I would say those visits were top two of that trip. At the NRW, I go to Aca (now SixSens added) for the Romies, and GT for the mix.

Vito Corleone

01-04-16, 06:46

Hessen Bub

01-04-16, 09:05

Banana Boi

01-04-16, 10:53

I have personally seen more Caucasians not let in to GT than non-Caucasians. Pretty tough to build a discrimination case on that basis.

PussyLiccker

01-04-16, 13:03

All gypsy. Sometimes they dance all together to traditional Romanian gypsy music rather than manele. That really is a party for them. Sometimes they play some songs in romanian which are very like Indian traditional music, but I haven't found any of it on You Tube.Given I've visited Samya and Mondial quite a few times, Florin Salam is overplayed Manele that I associate with dancing girls because girls dance hardcore when this song gets played. The two girls in the videos, if they are gypsies, I would be so into them at any FKKs. Hot. Their styling looks so similar to some Romies I run across as I club around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojIn9CZCOW8

The Cane

01-04-16, 13:13

GT door will never give a reason why they refuse entry. They will just state that they are not letting you in. Don't know if you can build discrimination case that would hold up in court. They do let non-Germans and non-Caucasians in. Not all of them though.

HB.What are you telling us? Of course they don't have to give me or you or anybody trying to get in a reason. And what are going they going to say to any authority anyway? That they are doing it because of race? No, they aren't going to say that. You don't rely upon the offender to tell you the truth, even though you damn well know what it is. So, you have to set up a "sting" like Murat and his friends did. Let their actions tell on them, not their words!

Real life is not like Perry Mason where the crook breaks down on the witness stand and spills his guts! In order for the law to be effective, there has to be a recognition of that reality. And where your argument completely falls off of the rails, at least in the United States anyway, is that you don't have to show that all were not let in. Only some. It could even be one person of color discriminating against other persons of color. A woman illegally discriminating against another woman.

Again, I don't know German law, but I do know that Germany is one of the most progressive countries in the world in this area. I've seen enough now to believe that if somebody wanted to bust GT for their discriminatory door practices that they could. Just has to be some Johns who want to step up to the plate and challenge them. And I don't see that happening. That's the issue.

Optimist

01-04-16, 17:03

Given I've visited Samya and Mondial quite a few times, Florin Salam is overplayed Manele that I associate with dancing girls because girls dance hardcore when this song gets played. The two girls in the videos, if they are gypsies, I would be so into them at any FKKs. Hot. Their styling looks so similar to some Romies I run across as I club around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojIn9CZCOW8https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fcdZuIejOAg is very like the girls dancing in the clubs. It's a bit old. A lot of recent manele videos have been influenced for the worse by American twerking.

Florin Salam produces a huge number of videos, generally undistingished but amongst them are some gems which would stand comparison with flamenco, blues, rebetika.

If you're interested in dancing try Malina from Bulgaria, performing Strast live. Sorry I can't get the link to work on my tablet.

Optimist

01-04-16, 17:05

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hCKMllK0tq8

Here's the link I mentioned below.About 1.50 in especially,

Katinka

01-04-16, 17:59

Free Dude

01-04-16, 18:05

GT is also widely known for not letting in groups, the tip is to split up and arrive in groups of max 2. I think that might muddle the view that it is only based on ethnicity, especially since many ethnicities are allowed in and there are plenty of caucasians (in groups) are not.

In Freude they used to say you need to be a member, which could be arranged online. This might be easier to proof as a bunch of BS (although I believe they have stopped their door policy). I recently read about the old Mausi's (current Luder Lounge), which apparently used to be downright racist (German flags from the time of the third reich and such). I believe they currently distance themselves from that part of the past (but not the service reputation), although I can't recall seeing many immigrants there. Unlike clubs in the vicinity as Neby, Applerbeck, Acapulco, Penelope, Great Palace. Which have a fairly large immigrant client base even.

Abox79

01-04-16, 19:58

I have four days in Europe on which I have not made a decision what to do. I am debating between touring clubs around Cologne, Dusseldorf, Samya, Goldentime, and Living Room, and going to Berlin to gorge myself on Artemis. I have been to all of the relevant clubs and have fond memories of all of them except Samya, so this would be a second chance for Samya if I go that route. Anyway, I just thought I would see if anyone wanted to chime in.I have the same predicament, I am there 15-17, land at Dusseldorf midday Friday and return Sun am I am making my mind up between GT, LR, Aca, Samya. Trouble is Samya and GT are some way out, more so Samya. Decisions, decisions.

McAdonis

01-04-16, 20:48

Given I've visited Samya and Mondial quite a few times, Florin Salam is overplayed Manele that I associate with dancing girls because girls dance hardcore when this song gets played. The two girls in the videos, if they are gypsies, I would be so into them at any FKKs. Hot. Their styling looks so similar to some Romies I run across as I club around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojIn9CZCOW8Romania girls have many different looks. Based on genetics, Romania is the most evenly mixed country in Europe. There isn't a single dominant haplogroup, but four of them: R1 b, R1 a, I1 b, J. Compare that to a country like Ireland which is over 80% R1 b.

Most gypsies will have differing degrees of mixed blood. But more than likely those gypsies who really look European would have turned their back on their gypsy heritage.

Check Google images for "tiganca frumoasa".

Hessen Bub

01-04-16, 21:07

There's many pretty Romanian girls with an Indian look to them. Gypsies. Who cares. I also don't mind if a pretty German hooker is from Saxonia. LOL.

HB.

Mr Ho

01-04-16, 22:04

Several posters said GT refuses entry to non-white, non East Asian folks, routinely or at least frequently enough. How does GT get away with it? Is it legal in Germany for commercial establishments to deny service and even entry to people solely based on ethnic / racial basis? I can understand if they were denied entry due to rude behavior, obvious drunkenness, etc but the comments did not have any such caveats, simply said certain races are denied entry, almost as a matter of fact. I have never attended myself, don't know if that is an accurate summary of the situation.I guess this is because maybe something happened before in GT? Or maybe a lot of certain gang related activities in the region? Or GT being owned by certain group of people and they want to keep their rival gang away from their club?

In Artemis, there is no particular door policy, but there was an incident involving beating up security with electric stun gun that made it into German news papers and also TV news, but Artemis did not put certain door policy for certain race.

I only been in FKK scene for around 5 years now, but I never saw any problem in the club, I only heard some things, which means problems occurring in FKK is very rare, though it is amazing how safe or problem free FKK is considering it is a mega brothel.

Member #4581

01-04-16, 23:49

Sharks Lorena is someone who could pass for A girl with some or a lot of Indian blood.

There's many pretty Romanian girls with an Indian look to them. Gypsies. Who cares. I also don't mind if a pretty German hooker is from Saxonia. LOL.

HB.

Member #4581

01-04-16, 23:58

I quite agree with you. But I am perhaps a bit more optimistic than you and UH, re: that last paragraph. Some times, these things work with a time lag. The US, as you said, had a lot more experience with this issue for several decades now, prosecutors look out, media looks out, and people are in general, sensitized. But even in the US, there might be more sensitivity in California or northeast than in Deep South, for example. The case UH linked to shows these things are beginning to work in Germany as well. What I see is that international visitor list is constantly growing at these clubs, so there will be more friction, more such issues, and inevitably more attention brought up to the authorities. Also, at least in the US, fines escalate. First offense a minor rap on the knuckles, second offense a bigger penalty, and third one a much more punitive one, and so on. If fines escalate, a club would be a lot more careful.

What are you telling us? Of course they don't have to give me or you or anybody trying to get in a reason. And what are going they going to say to any authority anyway? That they are doing it because of race? No, they aren't going to say that. You don't rely upon the offender to tell you the truth, even though you damn well know what it is. So, you have to set up a "sting" like Murat and his friends did. Let their actions tell on them, not their words!

Real life is not like Perry Mason where the crook breaks down on the witness stand and spills his guts! In order for the law to be effective, there has to be a recognition of that reality. And where your argument completely falls off of the rails, at least in the United States anyway, is that you don't have to show that all were not let in. Only some. It could even be one person of color discriminating against other persons of color. A woman illegally discriminating against another woman.

Again, I don't know German law, but I do know that Germany is one of the most progressive countries in the world in this area. I've seen enough now to believe that if somebody wanted to bust GT for their discriminatory door practices that they could. Just has to be some Johns who want to step up to the plate and challenge them. And I don't see that happening. That's the issue.

Breadman

01-05-16, 00:25

The Cane

01-05-16, 00:41

Gaining entry to the club is just that, gaining entry to the club. You'll still have girls saying yes or no based on their personal preferences. When does it move from personal preference when a girl refuses to open her legs to prejudice? We see it in Thailand all the time, asians are always prefered over caucasians. It's even worse in Vietnam. You can't pick a girl if she refuses to go with you. So what is it? Prejudice or personal choice? Or is she just dick scared when she hears breadman's coming to town?Who one has sex with is a very personal choice. If somebody does not want to have sex with somebody else of another race, well then I would not automatically call that "racist" per se. I'm not attracted (or as attracted) to certain types of women sexually, but I certainly don't consider myself to be a racist either. As you say. Gaining admission to a club is one thing. Who one chooses to have sex with is quite another and a far more intimate and personal matter. We may get our feelings hurt if a tute turns us down (happened to me about 5 times that I can recall in my lifetime over decades), but in the end it's best to just move on and find somebody else even better and hotter who does want to fuck us.

Member #4581

01-05-16, 01:55

I think and believe that a girl is, and should be able to decide who she wants to provide a session.

So, if 100% of the girls refuse a monger, the monger has no leg to stand, his own fault / misfortune.

And that's what the club should be doing. Leave it to the girls to decide.

But at least based on the girls in Frk I have seen, girls care about money (except some mongers who were bad experiences previously, or based on reputation, or per Syz, too well hung sometimes. Not my problem, LOL).

Gaining entry to the club is just that, gaining entry to the club. You'll still have girls saying yes or no based on their personal preferences. When does it move from personal preference when a girl refuses to open her legs to prejudice? We see it in Thailand all the time, asians are always prefered over caucasians. It's even worse in Vietnam. You can't pick a girl if she refuses to go with you. So what is it? Prejudice or personal choice? Or is she just dick scared when she hears breadman's coming to town?

PussyLiccker

01-05-16, 07:16

I have the same predicament, I am there 15-17, land at Dusseldorf midday Friday and return Sun am I am making my mind up between GT, LR, Aca, Samya. Trouble is Samya and GT are some way out, more so Samya. Decisions, decisions.

I have four days in Europe on which I have not made a decision what to do. I am debating between touring clubs around Cologne, Dusseldorf, Samya, Goldentime, and Living Room, and going to Berlin to gorge myself on Artemis. I have been to all of the relevant clubs and have fond memories of all of them except Samya, so this would be a second chance for Samya if I go that route. Anyway, I just thought I would see if anyone wanted to chime in.Some tips:

GT / LR can be done as a combo. Arrive at GT early in the day, and later at night take off to LR since GT you can ask for discount entry to LR at the front desk.

When visiting Samya, stick around til the night, when the place gets really going with girls dancing to the music (like the Manele music video I linked. Haha.).

Similar to Samya, Aca would be a bit slow during the day, but it's also better to stick around til evening-night to see the full LU. Check out the Aca website for discount entry times.

You can do GT during the day, and then at night head for Samya or Aca, and that should work out well since GT gets going during the day.

Check them out, and see what types of experiences they provide, and let us know by providing us reports.

Clodius1

01-07-16, 02:23

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum! I am looking forward to my first trip to the NRW very soon, but I've heard that the eastern orthodox holiday season means a skimpy LU in the clubs. When is the LU back to full speed?

Thanks!

Vito Corleone

01-07-16, 04:12

Banana Boi

01-07-16, 06:45

Exodus8

01-07-16, 11:56

Romanian Easter is very late this year, May 1 and 2. Many girls will return by Fri, May 13.Thats good news! I think the normal easter is in March this year.

Linga

01-07-16, 20:02

There exists in some parts of the world for lawyers to file a case in the interest of the public termed "Public Interest Litigation". I don't know whether PIL is possible in Germany but if it were, a lawyer could be hired to do just that. How much would it cost? You don't necessarily have to win the case but just having a case lodged against these businesses would be trouble enough for them.

So, now who is going to step forward and do this for an FKK sauna club? Not me! Some dance club somewhere is one thing, but to expose the discrimination of a house of prostitution in this way is to expose oneself as a purveyor of the "tutedom" within said walls! And nobody else is going to do it for us. Nobody really cares that a John can't get any pussy. So GT will continue to get away with its bullshit discriminatory door practices until somebody to challenge them on it, thereby revealing that they themselves patronize prostitutes.

Wolvenvacht

01-07-16, 20:06

Florida Sun

01-08-16, 02:01

I am planning to visit Germany from the 11th to the 16th of February. Those dates coincide with Ambiente. My plan is th visit Sharks on 11th and 12th and I booked my stay at the hotel down the street from the club and my plan was to do rooms during the day and party and drink at night and if an opportunity present its self and room waits are not redeculus continue playing into the night. I have also decided to get out of town and spend couple of days away from Frankfurt and the trade show traffic. I have picked Berlin to visit Artemis and then on my final night stay at a Frankfurt airport hotel and visit Oase on the final night of the trade show. This is my third FKK tour so I have some familiarity but if you could help me with the following questions.

1) how does Ambiente Impact FKK action from what I heard it doesn't drow as many mongers instead more women and gay men.

2) should I avoid Frankfurt on those days.

3) should I go NRW instead of Berlin.

Hessen Bub

01-08-16, 14:06

Member #4581

01-09-16, 00:14

I am sorry. If you think this topic is beaten to the death, we should ALL drop it. If you think it does not belong here, you can say that too, although it would seem to me that admission policy at a club is very much on topic in this thread.

It is tough to tell if you are trying to explain or justify this GT door policy. Excluding an entire race or races, on the basis that they "are likely to cause to trouble" is almost a text book definition of racism. And your analogy is totally wrong. Bouncers turning away badly dressed or some other "uncool" people is hardly the same as systematically excluding entire ethnicities. Not even those bouncers at those discos will let in only specific races and exclude other entire races entirely; if they did, they too will be accused of racism and at least in the US their license will be revoked.

GT is keeping those clients out of their club who are likely to cause trouble or are not "fitting" into the club. Same thing happens every weekend in front of thousands of discotheques around the world when a bouncer will send you away because of whatever: Age, haircut, clothes, behavior, not being sober, looking like trouble, showing up in a group.

We may not like it but discussing PILs or other court actions seem a bit over the top.

HB.

The Cane

01-09-16, 00:38

Neurosynth

01-09-16, 02:06

I'm as anti-racist as anyone, but this isn't a disco, it's a sex club, and sex changes things.

For example, what about the individual girl? Should she be required to have sex with all races? Do you really want to argue that she *doesn't* get to do what she wants with her own body?

UltraHappy

01-09-16, 02:08

GT is keeping those clients out of their club who are likely to cause trouble or are not "fitting" into the club. Same thing happens every weekend in front of thousands of discotheques around the world when a bouncer will send you away because of whatever: Age, haircut, clothes, behavior, not being sober, looking like trouble, showing up in a group.

We may not like it but discussing PILs or other court actions seem a bit over the top.

HB.It used to be the case that nightclubs could get away with this with impunity in the States for exactly this reason -- that is, how can someone successfully prove racism when all the club has to do is offer some nice-sounding pretext?

In the US, it is quite easy to prosecute such clubs that have a discriminatory impact on protected groups (e. G. Racial classifications). If a bunch of black people get turned away from a nightclub in my city (even when they are dressed the same as white people), that nightclub is eventually prosecuted. This is not at all uncommon in my big city. Even when the city doesn't prosecute a nightclub for this, they can be shamed on Facebook and that can be a death knell for the club as well -- at least given the population where I live who are sensitive to such things and find racism repugnant. Some bars enter into settlement agreements with my city over such prosecutions. The bars and clubs where I live are finding that this is not so easy to get away with.

Indeed, the same thing could be argued about employment law. Why can't a company just hire all white people and no black people? Can't the company just proffer some nice-sounding pretext for why it didn't hire the black people? Sorry -- it doesn't work like that. Companies are successfully prosecuted and sued over this all the time in the USA.

From the articles I cited about nightclubs in Germany, it sounds like German society is slowly catching up with the States on nightclub ethnicity discrimination (e. G. Burden shifts to nightclub to prove that its exclusionary decisions are non-racist after a plaintiff shows a discriminatory impact).

Still, I agree that in GT's case, the biggest hurdle is finding willing plaintiffs. There probably aren't any brave souls in the discriminated population who would be willing plaintiffs.

/ horse beaten.

PussyLiccker

01-09-16, 03:09

How is employment law get brought in on a conversation about door policy of a brothel? Let's look at the past history of why turn of events happened in the US. Much more daunting issues at hand that caused it. And there are so much daunting issues around the word besides a brothel's door policy.

Night clubs are known to turn away guests due to various reasons, and typically will not give a reason for so. Law suits are in favor when there is legitimate proof that it is racially motivated. Until somebody goes out of their way to prove it, or think a brothel's door policy is that high on the echelon for people's rights, it will continue on with a vagueness to exactly why that policy exists. Like I said, I pondered that question, and you can imply things based on what is seen, and of course what people will claim. If only certain types of races get's turned away, implications would be based on that. But, that is not exactly what goes on at GT. Are they going out of their way to block out people because race alone? Doesn't seem so. If clubs are very busy, and can afford to be choosy with whom they will allow entry, the bouncer will filter out whom to enter. That's what is going on at GT as a business entity.

Mr Ho

01-09-16, 03:16

Member #4581

01-09-16, 04:13

We had already discussed this. Getting into the club is not the same as every girl forced to have sex with every monger who gets in.

There are plenty of girls who are selective, and if one does monger for long enough, at one time or other every monger probably got dinged by a girl. Janine of Sharks was one who was, at least in her early days, turning away many customers. Just 2 days ago, someone wrote this girl Justinia was selective and turning away guys at Sharks.

A year ago, I said no to Suginella at Oase which seemed to pi $$ off her friend Roxana, and when I approached her later she was very cold, asked me why I did not like her friend, and said she did not want to go with me to the room. Fair enough, her choice.

I don't think anyone is arguing that every girl or even a single girl should be forced to have sex with any customer if she did not want to. But if one thinks that is the same as excluding an entire race from a club, and use some lame excuse to justify it, well, as the Cane said, they don't get it.

I'm as anti-racist as anyone, but this isn't a disco, it's a sex club, and sex changes things.

For example, what about the individual girl? Should she be required to have sex with all races? Do you really want to argue that she *doesn't* get to do what she wants with her own body?

The Cane

01-09-16, 05:01

I don't think anyone is arguing that every girl or even a single girl should be forced to have sex with any customer if she did not want to. But if one thinks that is the same as excluding an entire race from a club, and use some lame excuse to justify it, well, as the Cane said, they don't get it.And it actually goes both ways. I've turned down far, far, far more girls (too many to ever know) than have ever turned me down (or who ever will). So, I guess you could say that "turn downs" actually happen far more for most of the girls than they do for your typical monger. That's just the dynamics of the business. A monger doesn't have to have sex with every girl either, and nor does a monger have to give a reason for why not.

But with that said, as you note, we've already pointed out that who is admitted is an entirely separate issue from who has sex with whom. Those are two distinct matters. And in any event, I think in most instances it's going to be the monger saying "no" to sex anyway (for whatever his reasons) as opposed to the the girl that! Think about that.

That's certainly been my standard experience anyway, and I think I'm pretty typical in this regard. I turn girls down left and right all night long, and not the other way around with them turning me down. Like I said in another post, the latter has happened to me so few times over the years that I can only recall about five instances where a tute told me "no".

Hessen Bub

01-09-16, 15:38

What that is my friend is racism. You're clearly somebody who doesn't get it, and somebody who doesn't want to get it.I am a bloody racist. That's why I fuck girls who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Buddhist. I fuck girls from Germany (rarely because I had not so good experiences compared to other nations, how racist is that? Romania / Bulgaria (Gypsy or not), India, Poland, Denmark, Ireland, DomRep, Cuba, Columbia, Switzerland, Austria, Brasil, Nigeria, Kenia, Marokko, Thailand, Philipines, China. I don't care about "race", "ethnic group", nationality or religion.

I have friends who are straight / gay / lesbian / bi, black / white / asian, muslim / catholic / protestant / orthodox / jewish / buddhist / shinto.

I've turned down far, far, far more girls (too many to ever know) than have ever turned me down (or who ever will). How racist is that?

HB.

PussyLiccker

01-09-16, 16:02

Another touchy subject. Clearly racism can be attached to anything as been pointed out just now. There are very harmful racism where people are stripped off their rights, and lets others get away with physio-psych harm. I dunno why it's so important to keep dragging on about this. It's best to avoid racial, political, social, and whatever have you. People have stated their stance on things, and it's understandable. So, lets move on (I guess until another person brings it up, but hopefully people will ignore it unless it's really that crucial to discuss ad nauseum again). There are more important things to discuss like how many times we can cum in the sesssion. Haha.

UltraHappy

01-09-16, 16:20

How is employment law get brought in on a conversation about door policy of a brothel?

Night clubs are known to turn away guests due to various reasons, and typically will not give a reason for so. Law suits are in favor when there is legitimate proof that it is racially motivated. You posed a question to me -- So, I will answer. You specifically asked why I was mentioning employments law. The reference to employment law was relevant because it shows that the law can successfully be used to prosecute racial discrimination even when nice-sounding pretexts have been offered by the discriminating company. Indeed, this happens all the time in employment law. In other words, the domain of employment law is a great example of how racial discrimination can be proven even where the discriminating person *claims* I didn't hire so and so for valid reasons.

If the law can effect this kind of prosecution in the arena of employment law (even without smoking gun evidence of the hiring manager admitting, "Yeah, I didn't hire Yolanda 'cause she's black. " then the same can happen in other areas of law as well, such as public accommodations (hotels and restaurants).

Indeed, as I mentioned below, nightclubs are successfully prosecuted for racial discrimination in my city simply by showing disparate impact -- that is, no one had to show smoking gun evidence that a bouncer denied admission on the basis of race, but simply that a bunch of blacks got turned away for reasons that whites didn't get turned away. One of the articles I cited even mentioned burden shifting aspect of German law in the prosecution of German nightclubs. So, I am simply suggesting that it is *possible* to successfully pursue such claims under the existing German law framework, at least according to the German news articles I cited -- though I readily admitted that there are challenges, such as finding willing plaintiffs.

PussyLiccker

01-09-16, 18:14

The Cane

01-09-16, 19:10

I think we are trying to create parallel how it is in the US into this, but it's a different scenario. One is employment, the other is entry to a brothel. And then you are trying to equate a brothel to a hotel or restaurant. As somebody pointed out earlier, brothels denying certain races (foreigners) happen at other countries. But, hotels restaurants, whatever have you do not. At the end of the day, it's a brothel or crying out loud! There are more important things that are dire in the world.I really don't believe what I just read. Do you really think that people aren't discriminated against at hotels, in restaurants, and so on "at other countries" as they are in a brothel? Are you saying that doesn't happen? I simply cannot believe some people's lack of understanding or acceptance of some of the realities of life! Just amazing!

And it's a different scenario in Germany alright. Whereas an FKK would not be a legal enterprise in the United States, it is one in Germany! Therefore in the eyes of the law, that makes an FKK akin to a restaurant, hotel, or any other kind of establishment in the sense that it's a business open to the general public with goods and services for sale.

Well, a place like GT holds itself out as being open to the general public, but we have plenty of documented evidence that it isn't. They have a discriminatory door policy and could be busted just like a "regular" nightclub can. It may be "just a brothel", but it's a legal enterprise too that's not exempt from the law.

Now, your 2,376 posts here suggest to me that mongering is a pretty important aspect of your life. Can you acknowledge that it could also be just as important an aspect of another person's life who would like to go to GT as you can, but who cannot due to the door policy? If that discrimination was happening to you, I'm confident that it wouldn't be so easy for you dismiss it as not being of dire consequence in the world.

Put yourself in somebody else's shoes. Just for a moment. Really. Put yourself in somebody else's shoes. And stand up for those things that make the world a better place. Turning a blind eye, denial, and specious arguments only lead to to ruin in the end. For everybody.

Carpe Viam

01-09-16, 21:39

It's really interesting to see people losing their cool when discussing a sensitive subject as racism.

It's important to read carefully at least twice before criticizing the author of the post that you don't like.

SwingerLover

01-09-16, 22:55

Member #4581

01-09-16, 22:59

HB - You are one of the most valued and rational posters around here, at least to me. I don't think you are a racist in anyway, and that was never my intention to imply such a thing. But sensitivity to this issue differs among countries. For historical reasons, US is by far the most sensitive, and as several Americans admitted here, this would not fly in the US. We have the laws, the prosecutors watching out, media watching out, social media massive these days, and most importantly people will not put up but fight when this kind of thing happens anywhere.

Western Europe is slowly coming around. Most of us love Germany and hugely appreciate the hospitality shown by Germans, and the very liberal open clubs in particular. UH has dubbed Frankfurt "heaven on earth" in one comment as I recall, and I have to agree (as long as the clubs are open and inviting, LOL). I did not mean to stir a hornet's nest with my original question, but I was surprised to learn about this GT admission issue, in Germany in this day and age. If it was Thailand or Japan, I can understand but Germany - I was surprised. Anyways, that's just me.

I am a bloody racist. That's why I fuck girls who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Buddhist. I fuck girls from Germany (rarely because I had not so good experiences compared to other nations, how racist is that? Romania / Bulgaria (Gypsy or not), India, Poland, Denmark, Ireland, DomRep, Cuba, Columbia, Switzerland, Austria, Brasil, Nigeria, Kenia, Marokko, Thailand, Philipines, China. I don't care about "race", "ethnic group", nationality or religion.

I have friends who are straight / gay / lesbian / bi, black / white / asian, muslim / catholic / protestant / orthodox / jewish / buddhist / shinto.

How racist is that?

HB.

Hessen Bub

01-09-16, 23:28

Jnpr30: No offense, this was no post against you.

SL: Spot on. Groups of Turkish (even with German passports) are known for trouble. Whenever I feel uncomfortable at Sharks they are involved. There's plenty of girls refusing them, including many EE girls.

HB.

PussyLiccker

01-09-16, 23:34

I didn't quite follow how this toppic got started, but it's moot anyway, because if anybody who commented on it here had had just one single party where a group of three or more Turks or other muslims arrived together as a group, then this whole discussion would never have started. The issue at hand is not race. It's the simple fact that those guys, if they arrived in groups, always wreck every party and treat the women like shit. So not letting them in is an act of self defence.

If Turks arrive there all by themselves, then you can have 20 of them around with no trouble. But if they arrive as a group or even a duo, then the party is over and you might as well go home; I had experienced this myself in the past. I think that a lot of clubs don't distinguish between groups and single guys of that ethnicity and therefore let none of them in. And with good reason!

Also: If you have a look at private ads from women or couples on a contact website, then you very often find that they want 'no southerners'. (What they really mean is that they want no Turks, Arabs or other muslims who treat them like crap.) Now why in the world might they do that? Because of bad experience! Do you want to prosecute them for racism as well? It's a good thing that there is no such nonsense as 'PIL' in Germany.There are some points to consider that has been brought up here. Things are not straightforward as what is discriminate for just the for the sake vs intentions like has been pointed out about how prostitutes work. Law doesn't always create clear fairness. I have heard from girls regarding why they won't work at an establishment, but choose another due to the clientele (which happens with prostitutes in general out of choice which they have the right to have). This is different from other establishments as been pointed out although itself is a legal entity in country where such entities as business exists. There are many clubs in DE, it's not the end of the world that one club has a particular policy, plenty of others. This is one of those topics that will draw out emotional responses. I don't see any reason for it to stretch out beyond what people already know.

I will point some stuff out. Magnum is high proportionate Turkish, but it's clearly evident there are sketchy folks there. I have been pointed out by a girl that work at GT currently that pointed out she was terrified of the clientele (It's not going to be all of the clientele). I have also met many girls that checks out the establishment and comes back to the original club. Same reasons. And people have talked about girls stating what they think about the clientele there.

Now, I understand the sentiment about being denied entry, and nowhere am I stating, what is fair or what is not. It's not clear.

Neurosynth

01-10-16, 00:32

We had already discussed this. Getting into the club is not the same as every girl forced to have sex with every monger who gets in.
And if 10/10 of the girls there don't want to go with Turks, can they then be stopped at the door? What if only 1 girl out of 10 is willing?

Or what if a brothel finds they have trouble finding women who will work in a club with Turks present? That women don't want to have to keep turning them down, and don't want the harassment when they do, and would rather just work in a place where it isn't an issue?

The right to bodily autonomy can aggregate to a group that has the right to associate with those with a similar preference regarding what they do with their body.

Delta Indigo

01-10-16, 01:00

UltraHappy

01-10-16, 01:46

And if 10/10 of the girls there don't want to go with Turks, can they then be stopped at the door? What if only 1 girl out of 10 is willing?

Or what if a brothel finds they have trouble finding women who will work in a club with Turks present? That women don't want to have to keep turning them down, and don't want the harassment when they do, and would rather just work in a place where it isn't an issue?

The right to bodily autonomy can aggregate to a group that has the right to associate with those with a similar preference regarding what they do with their body.Question: And what if waitresses at a restaurant don't want to serve Turkish people because the waitresses believe Turkish people are rude, don't respect women, and tip poorly? Shouldn't the restaurant be able to categorically reject Turkish people (or people who look Turkish) from entering the restaurant as a whole?

Answer: No (and happily, the law agrees with me on this).

Yes, working girls should and clearly have the right to decide who they go to the room with.

That doesn't translate into some sort of categorical right for the nightclub that they work for to deny entry for food and wellness services. Turks have the same right to overcooked grilled sauna meats as the rest of public. If you are going to make the argument that certain behaviors are disfavored, then you can always prohibit such behavior if you wish. If a group of white people (or Asian people) suddenly become drunk and rowdy in a nightclub, is that somehow more acceptable than a group of Turks engaging in such behavior?

If a nightclub categorically throws people out who become drunk and rowdy, that's totally permissible if it's not done on the basis of race. Yes, it is much more of a hassle to throw out groups of drunks guys than simply not letting them in the first place, but that is the burden you take on and accept when you enter the nightclub business. If you don't want to bother arresting bad guys, don't become a cop. If you don't want to bother with seeing blood all the time, don't become an ER doctor. If you don't want to shove your hand up cow butts all the time, don't become a farm animal veterinarian.

If you don't want to deal with drunk people, then maybe don't serve alcohol at your premises (or institute a per guest drink limit or throw people out on the basis of rowdy behavior and failing a breathalyzer or whatever). But don't exclude people from a public establishment merely on the basis of race. Why? Because for whatever reason, modern society has for the most part come to the conclusion that excluding people from a public establishment on the basis of race is categorically repugnant.

Vito Corleone

01-10-16, 02:51

Anyone who is concerned about this issue whether or out principal or personal concern, should just boycott GT to show their stand on this issue.

If the numbers make any difference to GT, they will change their policies. I have no interest in going there, even if I could talk my way in.GT is always packed with clients so I don't think they have any interest if you can talk your way in or not. The protests by the people who are not allowed entry keeps the hot babes very happy & willing to travel all over Germany to work at GT since they prefer not to deal with those types of clients.

Member #4581

01-10-16, 03:20

If 10/10 of the girls refused to fuck a Turk, or a black, or whatever suits your imagination, then it is that monger who wasted his entry money. Why do you feel the need to stop him from entering the club itself?

The rest of the stuff you spun. You are making up to suit whatever argument you are trying to make. Making the arbitrary assumption that girls WILL refuse to fuck, waitresses WILL refuse to serve, cooks WILL refuse to cook for some random race that you despise, you can block people them and refuse entry. At least in the US, that is illegal, regardless of whether some people like it or not.

Racism is all about not treating individuals as individuals, and stereotyping them into tribes / groups, ascribing that whole group whatever characteristics you want to ascribe, and extending it to each individual in that group.

And if 10/10 of the girls there don't want to go with Turks, can they then be stopped at the door? What if only 1 girl out of 10 is willing?

Or what if a brothel finds they have trouble finding women who will work in a club with Turks present? That women don't want to have to keep turning them down, and don't want the harassment when they do, and would rather just work in a place where it isn't an issue?

The right to bodily autonomy can aggregate to a group that has the right to associate with those with a similar preference regarding what they do with their body.

PussyLiccker

01-10-16, 07:18

There are many clubs in DE. Girls work at differing clubs due to whatever circumstances they are in. Girls explore clubs to work whether due to high prospect of pay and/or clientele. At times girls choose/refuse clientele at clubs/escorts. Many club options that girls can go. Many times I have attended GT and nearby clubs, I hear from girls they heard about GT or prefer to work at GT. Girls come from other clubs, and stay at the club long term. Girls get kicked out, and come back, which shows they want to continue working there.

Sometimes guys complain about the LU being static, and I have heard about girls work long term before my time there. Why would girls would want to hang around so long at a club? Obvious answer is they prefer to work there long term. In contrast to other clubs in the region I notice much higher turn-over rates. It is apparent that girls have quite a freedom as you don't see the same girls show up everyday (although there are that part of the LU that do). Some girls come from long ways, work a week to a month (or work part of the week), and go back home. Girls take long journey to work at a remote club. Girls are free to eat whenever they need, and not limited to some meal ticket like Oase. Many times the front desk ladies are former WGs.

I've visited Magnum for a long time, and girls don't stay there long. It's one of the reasons why I would often check out the club for any visiting girls, but I'm almost certain any fav I meet there won't be working there on my next visit. One girl I met there were pretty keen on the clientele there. I got lucky meeting her there, and had great time with her on a visit. I came back to see her the next day, and I see her avoiding a young client. According to her, he is a fish. Sadly, I haven't met her again. Apparently, she could easily distinguish punters to know which ones to avoid. That's not the first incidence I've met a girl with this sense. When girls interact with you, they know what type of person you are.

Hessen Bub

01-10-16, 10:12

Question: And what if waitresses at a restaurant don't want to serve Turkish people because the waitresses believe Turkish people are rude, don't respect women, and tip poorly? WGs at a club are self employed and independent. A waitress at a restaurant is employed by the restaurant. Big difference.

HB.

XXL

01-10-16, 11:25

Some twenty years ago I was refused entry to a Munich disco. The doorman told me I needed a "Clubausweis" which I took to mean a membership card. That was bosh as this was a disco like any other where people just trickled in from the street. I then phoned anonymously to ask what were the requirements for entry and if anyone could get in. After some hesitation and confusion I was told "anyone from central Europe was welcome" ("Jeder mittleeuropische Person hat Eintritt").

I marginally look (or at least looked at the time) like someone from Southern Europe. What's more, I was dressed up in a black Thai silk tuxedo (which might have enhanced my non-arian look). Whatever.

I'm sure prostitution places have the same rights as discos to refuse entry to anyone. As regards girls refusing clients, it's even in another league altogether (women's "human rights" etc.).

Note that court action by frustrated clients could have a paradoxical effect, that of showing the whole world that prostitutes are anything but slaves. I'm sure most of us here have had jobs where they have been less allowed to turn down work than girls are allowed to turn down johns.

Note also that doctos for example are allowed to advertise they will only take patients with private insurance. They're not allowed to turn down patients in cases of emergency though.

Regarding court action against German FKKs, wouldn't it be more usefull to contemplate class action against the prostitution ban in the US ?

The Cane

01-10-16, 11:46

WGs at a club are self employed and independent. A waitress at a restaurant is employed by the restaurant. Big difference.

HB.In the United States, this phony distinction between employee versus independent contractor has been successfully challenged in recent years in the sex work industry, particularly with regard to strippers, and the movement to reclassify as employees is only picking up steam. If you think about it, the environment and workings of an FKK are similar to a strip club, but with the girls going one step further (fucking).

We don't have such legal sex clubs in the USA, but if we did, I'm confident they could be challenged in the same way on the same question of employee versus contractor, and defeated in court on the matter. Don't know if there have been any recent challenges in Germany, but watch out if there are! There too the phony wall of difference might begin to crumble.

I could actually see the enemies of mongerdom joining in on any such lawsuits to try to make it more difficult for the clubs to survive, or drive them out of business altogether. In the USA, people who don't like the sex work industry in general are quite happy to see the strip clubs get saddled with millions of dollars in new financial liabilities.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article26200477.html

http://www.benefitspro.com/2013/10/15/strippers-are-employees-not-independent-contractor

http://www.workforce.com/articles/21457-independent-issues-a-tale-of-drivers-strippers-and-lawsuits

Mr Ho

01-10-16, 12:56

I got that GT turn down some clients, but I doubt they turn down clients based on race openly, they must give some surface reason like club is full or member ship only or whatever, so it will be hard to make a case unless you find many witness with same race, but again not backed concretely with evidence, just circumstance evidence. And I am sure FKK club got good lawyer.

The club probably had repeated problems with clients from certain regions or gang that is composed of certain region and just decided to blame it on whole race like cologne station incident. , though I feel cologne station incident is fault of extreme welcoming with no readiness to accept them on German government side. As for FKK club, I only met good spirited guys from all over the world.

I never faced concrete racism in Europe, just mild stereo type like stupid question like are there any ninjas still? Etc. I mean. Yeah sure, companies like Panasonic, pioneer or Sharp or Toyota etc. Or Sony like the one has center named after in Berlin has Ninja department to spy and assassinate their competitors LOL I mean some people are just bit ignorant and it ain't racism, just stereo type based on lack of traveling.

Oh and in club because I am Asian, girls sometimes think I am newbie. I almost always hustle my ways to squeeze the good service though it is always good to hustle hustlers LOL.

Member #4581

01-10-16, 14:18

If the doctor had said he would only treat Whites or Asians, or declines to see blacks or Latinos, or what have you, s / he would be in a heap of legal trouble. Dealing with private insurance only, declining Medicare patients, etc is a payment decision, some restaurants decline American Express or some take only cash. That is not illegal. Race based service is illegal.

On your second example, in the US, the law of the land is that prostitution is illegal in most states and jurisdictions. Can't file class action against it. If you don't like the law, it has to be changed by voting in legislators who will change the law. In Germany, commercial establishments practicing race based entry is already illegal. UH provided examples as well.

Re: why not boycott idea below, well if I was a Turk or black or Arab, or from whatever undesirable race, and was already denied entry, I can't boycott it, can I? Also, boycott as an idea to hurt commercial interests of an establishment works fine if it is something we disagree with. If Mauro started charging a buck every time you use a towel, or water was only available at Sharks in bottles for sale, you can boycott. It is not illegal, even if you disagree. If a restaurant knowingly employed underaged workers or deliberately contaminated food with toxins, that is not something to be merely boycotted. That is quite illegal, and the license would be revoked. And any race based admission policy is also illegal, as proved in the links provided by UH.

Note also that doctos for example are allowed to advertise they will only take patients with private insurance. They're not allowed to turn down patients in cases of emergency though.

Regarding court action against German FKKs, wouldn't it be more usefull to contemplate class action against the prostitution ban in the US ?

UltraHappy

01-10-16, 14:28

I'm sure prostitution places have the same rights as discos to refuse entry to anyone. As regards girls refusing clients, it's even in another league altogether (women's "human rights" etc.).
No, discos and other establishments do not have the right to refuse entry to anyone. Racial discrimination against those entering discos, shopping, and other establishments is clearly prohibited under German Law.

You can read about discrimination protections under German Law here: http://goo.gl/uzC2iu. See Section 3. 22 in particular which explains how the General Act of Equal Treatment Law of 2006 also applies to access to and supply of goods and services, for example when shopping, visiting a restaurant or a discotheque, searching for a flat, or conducting insurance and banking transactions.

More specifically, the General Act of Equal Treatment Law of 2006 prevents this type of discrimination (among other types of discrimination). You can read a little about that law here: http://goo.gl/xB25na (executive summary) and here: http://goo.gl/lZ0KqS (translation of entire law into English). Indeed, in 2013, German Judge Birgit Passoke of the District Court in Hanover found that a club's rejection of an individual at the door violated the General Equal Treatment Law of 2006, which prohibits discrimination based on a number of factors including ethnic origin, religion and sexual orientation. The judge wrote in her decision that the evidence proved that "while the plaintiff was refused entry to the nightclub, guests without a recognizable immigrant background were able to enter. " See http://goo.gl/VG27Et.

I don't know why you write that discos have (or perhaps, should have the right) to refuse entry to anyone. This is clearly illegal in both Germany and in the USA.

Christian G

01-10-16, 14:54

I don't know why you write that discos have (or perhaps, should have the right) to refuse entry to anyone. This is clearly illegal in both Germany and in the USA.Disco can refuse entry for many reason! It's normal that a club or disco have a door policy it's the first rule to prevent problems.

I been in Munich for the oktoberfest with a big group of friends and in the night we tried to go in some disco, no one place allow us inside because they thought that we can be a troublemaker, and we were all caucasian. So this is racism for you? For me isn't!

I work in disco since 2006 and I know what I talk about. In my country we have always problem with a group of african or east european, so they can't entry in many disco, because 99% of the times they only make problem and fight.

They have a african disco or rumanian club and every nights have police due to knife fight.
Different if they come alone with a girlfriend, in that case they can go in without any problem.
Racism? NO, is intelligence!

Personally I not conceive this unnecessary controversy, Germany is not USA so the comparison does not make sense. Who don't like a club like GT due to their door policy just avoid it.
Is better you all think more to write report about your mongering adventure LOL.

In Japan many place are forbidden to the gaijin, why don't start a same controversy on Japan section and make the comparison USA vs Japan?

PussyLiccker

01-10-16, 14:56

I never faced concrete racism in Europe, just mild stereo type like stupid question like are there any ninjas still? Etc. I mean. Yeah sure, companies like Panasonic, pioneer or Sharp or Toyota etc. Or Sony like the one has center named after in Berlin has Ninja department to spy and assassinate their competitors LOL I mean some people are just bit ignorant and it ain't racism, just stereo type based on lack of traveling.

Oh and in club because I am Asian, girls sometimes think I am newbie. I almost always hustle my ways to squeeze the good service though it is always good to hustle hustlers LOL.LOL. Or perhaps end up talkin about Karate! Racists! The look on the girls face when they spot you, oooo tourist!! Yummy. Upselling time. Haha.

Ninjas do exists as I have seen Ninja Warrior. Yup.

The Cane

01-10-16, 16:32

Personally I not conceive this unnecessary controversy, Germany is not USA so the comparison does not make sense. In Japan many place are forbidden to the gaijin, why don't start a same controversy on Japan section and make the comparison USA vs Japan?Number one, in this area Germany has laws that are the same or similar (and in some cases far more stringent) as exist in the USA. And number two, Japan is not a prime international mongering destination. Germany is.

Myrrh

01-10-16, 16:45

This post seemed to have completely missed the points that have been discussed in the last few days, on so many levels.

Some twenty years ago I was refused entry to a Munich disco. The doorman told me I needed a "Clubausweis" which I took to mean a membership card. That was bosh as this was a disco like any other where people just trickled in from the street. I then phoned anonymously to ask what were the requirements for entry and if anyone could get in. After some hesitation and confusion I was told "anyone from central Europe was welcome" ("Jeder mittleeuropische Person hat Eintritt").

I'm sure prostitution places have the same rights as discos to refuse entry to anyone. It has already been explained that it is against German laws to prohibit entry on the grounds of race. As the disco confirmed by phone to you that they had a racist policy in place then they were acting illegally. They did not have a legal right to refuse you.

As regards girls refusing clients, it's even in another league altogether (women's "human rights" etc.).

Note that court action by frustrated clients could have a paradoxical effect, that of showing the whole world that prostitutes are anything but slaves. I'm sure most of us here have had jobs where they have been less allowed to turn down work than girls are allowed to turn down johns. Whether someone is self-employed and working from an establishment or employed directly by the establishment the situation is still similar. If someone was working at / from a restaurant but refused to serve certain ethnic races then the restaurant could be sued for allowing someone to work from their premises who is breaking the law.

Once a woman has 'licensed' her body for sex then I am not so sure where human rights comes into it. She has commercialized her body and this is not in the same league as a normal woman at a nightclub sleeping with everyone except guys from certain races. Someone who is self-employed can choose to carry out work or not as long as it is not for illegal reasons. If a tailor working on his own refuses to 'use his body' to make suits for certain races then I am sure that he could be sued if this can be proven. Proof might be difficult to obtain but under civil law the burden of proof is less than a criminal prosecution. Only the balance of probabilities is required.

Prostitutes in the UK sometimes posts ads online that state that they do not service certain races. I can't recall seeing similar adverts for German prostitutes. Maybe prostitution has less of a stigma in Germany because it is in the open and therefore guys would be happy to sue prostitutes in Germany but not in the UK because they don't want the public to know that they are using prostitutes. Or maybe it is the difficulty in suing. By the time you come to court the prostitute will most likely have moved premises and you may not know her real name.

Note also that doctos for example are allowed to advertise they will only take patients with private insurance. They're not allowed to turn down patients in cases of emergency though.What has this got to do with the discussion? Are you saying that a prostitute can turn away punters who don't have a certificate to prove ability to pay or who haven't already paid upfront but they still need to have sex with him if he is sufficiently desperate for sex?

Regarding court action against German FKKs, wouldn't it be more usefull to contemplate class action against the prostitution ban in the US ?Why more useful considering that this is the German FKK lounge and chat area?

Hessen Bub

01-10-16, 17:10

In the United States, this phony distinction between employee versus independent contractor has been successfully challenged in recent years.

Don't know if there have been any recent challenges in Germany, but watch out if there are! There too the phony wall of difference might begin to crumble.Same here, they are trying to prove that the girls are not self employed. If they were not the FKK club business model wouldn't work out, see recent development in CH. Until now the girls are self employed and the club owner doesn't have too much authority to give directions, it's a thin line.

HB.

Hessen Bub

01-10-16, 17:13

No, discos and other establishments do not have the right to refuse entry to anyone. They do. It's private business, it's private property, they can decide who to let in or not. They have all the domiciliary rights or domestic authority and can forbid entrance or ask persons to leave at any time.

HB.

UltraHappy

01-10-16, 18:00

They do. It's private business, it's private property, they can decide who to let in or not. They have all the domiciliary rights or domestic authority and can forbid entrance or ask persons to leave at any time.

HB.The links provided below in my post #5157 say otherwise. Or perhaps you are saying that Judge Birgit Passoke (Hanover District Court) interpretation of the 2006 General Act of Equal Treatment was incorrect? See http://goo.gl/VG27Et.

Even back in late 2011, the Higher Regional Court of Stuttgart awarded 900 to a plaintiff because the evidence showed "males were at least occasionally denied access to the nightclub because of their dark skin color. " The case didn't even include indications that the bouncers had mentioned skin color as part of their door policy. See http://goo.gl/VG27Et.

If this is not the law in Germany, then why are German judges finding violations of nightclub owners for racially discriminating against individuals?

Of course businesses can ask people to leave at any time for any reason -- unless the reason is an illegal one, which according to the links I provided below in post #5157, there are several ways to illegally exclude individuals from an establishment such as a restaurant or a nightclub.

Member #4581

01-10-16, 18:03

The crux of the question is whether they can be denied service solely on the basis of race.

The Murat case cited by UH, from that Spigel article, clearly says NO.

Here it is copied again, for reference.

"Four weeks ago, the Hanover District Court awarded the student 1,000 ($1,325) in compensation. Judge Birgit Passoke found that the club's rejection of Murat at the door violated the General Equal Treatment Law of 2006, which prohibits discrimination based on a number of factors including ethnic origin, religion and sexual orientation. She wrote in her decision that the evidence proved that "while the plaintiff was refused entry to the nightclub, guests without a recognizable immigrant background were able to enter. ".

So, the court was categorical in saying that race and ethnicity used as a reason to deny admission is ILLEGAL. She cites the specific law here.

So, all the posters arguing the other side. Are you saying that something already ruled illegal, ought to be legal instead?

If you claim that denial of entry was not based on race and ethnicity, well, that is something that will be decided in the court on a case by case basis. But if the stats are so overwhelming, where the club denies 95% to 100% of a specific race, while it blocks say, only 30% to 50% of a different race from entering, courts will increasingly find it for the plaintiffs.

They do. It's private business, it's private property, they can decide who to let in or not. They have all the domiciliary rights or domestic authority and can forbid entrance or ask persons to leave at any time.

HB.

Member #4581

01-10-16, 18:41

Here is a link to what's protected and provided for, in that law.

www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de/EN/TheAct/theAct_node.html

One more thing. People asking "what about this, what about that" such as doctors turning away specific insurances, discos turning away non cool people, etc etc.

The law prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion, gender, .

I. e. A few specific things.

It says nothing about an employer, a commercial establishment choosing to do business with (or not) based on other factors.

In other words, the law clearly makes a distinction between race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc and some superficial other factors.

Posters can try to obfuscate this issue all day long, but it does not change that some fundamental discriminations such as race and religion are quite illegal. And they will be contested in courts, and increasingly fines will escalate. Just a matter of time. After all, this law was signed in 2006. Civil rights laws were signed in the US nearly 50 years ago. It takes a long time to fix these things.

Hessen Bub

01-10-16, 19:14

So, the court was categorical in saying that race and ethnicity used as a reason to deny admission is ILLEGAL. It is. Still the owner can deny entry to anbody. For reasons that are not based on race and ethnicity. I'm out of this discussion, it is leading nowhere.

HB.

UltraHappy

01-10-16, 19:18

Racist: "I'm not being racist. ".

Reasonable Person: "But you just turned away all the Turkish people from your nightclub. You just refused them entry on the basis of their race. ".

Racist: "No, no, no! I never denied anyone on the basis of their race. That's not why I wouldn't let those guys in. ".

Reasonable Person: "Oh? Then, why did you turn those guys away?

Racist: "Because they would have been troublemakers. I just don't want any troublemakers in my club. I didn't exclude them because of race, only to keep out the troublemakers. ".

Reasonable Person: "Oh? Well, how did you know which men would be the troublemakers?

Racist: "Well, it's the Turks obviously! The Turks are always the troublemakers. Everyone knows that!

Reasonable Person: "So, you are not turning them away because they are Turks. You are turning them away because you *know* that they are likely to be troublemakers. And you know that they are likely to be troublemakers because they are Turks? ".

Racist: "Yes. But I'm not racist -- because I've heard that is bad or something. ".

Next thing you know, we'll be denying entry to blacks to shopping places because we all know that the blacks are the ones who are always stealing.

PussyLiccker

01-10-16, 20:39

Next thing you know, we'll be denying entry to blacks to shopping places because we all know that the blacks are the ones who are always stealing.So, the logic goes, a nightclub turns away Turkish, so therefore the stores will soon after have a discriminating policy against the Blacks. Haha.

In DE, there are many clubs, some owned by the Turkish, biker gangs etc.

Hessen Bub

01-10-16, 21:11

The logic goes: You can't turn away no one or you'll be charged for being a racist and discrimination.

HB.

Member #4581

01-10-16, 21:24

I agree the discussion is going nowhere. No one is changing their minds.

As for your third sentence, as I said in my comment below, discrimination is illegal only on specific factors. If a fat person is turned away, he can sue the club, and while I think it is a repugnant practice, I don't know if the courts provide protection. At least the law is not very clear on equal rights to fat, having squint eyes, having bad parents, having a funky accent, smelling badly, etc etc. But it is very clear that race based discrimination is illegal.

It will be decided in the courts, as it should be. Will take time.

It is. Still the owner can deny entry to anbody. For reasons that are not based on race and ethnicity. I'm out of this discussion, it is leading nowhere.

HB.

Member #4581

01-10-16, 21:27

The owner of a club could be Turkish and practice discrimination and turn away Turks or blacks or whatever, if he thinks it brings in more whites and Asians. It is his business decision.

The issue is not that he will be branded a racist. The issue is that his club's practice is illegal. The club will be fined, and if it persists and does not change its business practice, fines will get larger and larger.

It is fine for any individual to hold racist attitudes, or even practice in his own life. It is not legal for a commercial establishment to flout laws related to this or else they be fined. The distinction here is between individual vs commercial, and what is legal and not.

The logic goes: You can't turn away no one or you'll be charged for being a racist and discrimination.

HB.

PussyLiccker

01-10-16, 21:30

Same here, they are trying to prove that the girls are not self employed. If they were not the FKK club business model wouldn't work out, see recent development in CH. Until now the girls are self employed and the club owner doesn't have too much authority to give directions, it's a thin line.

HB.This part I'm not so clear on. Girls are self employed, yet the pricing is standardized. So, this means that the girls had to agree upon the pricing of the session with the club, no? Some clubs, the pricing is lower, but extras are included depending on the girl's choice. I could understand that girls are self-employed since they pay entry, and they get paid directly, but at the same time they abide by the standard pricing of the club. Somebody pointed out that there is a statement where the pricing is agreed upon BY the girls. So, does that mean that the pricing is agreed upon with the girls on the club's requirements? Of course it does as when there is pricing conflict, the desk knows the pricing what is included or not. Anyway, it's legal stuff. Legal stuff typical means what is written is complied.

What I don't understand is on the wiki and another site states, pimping is legal in DE, yet not in NL.

In SixSens (NL), the desk will state you must agree upon the pricing with the ladies(perhaps a way to dodge issues, but yet wouldn't this create conflicts if so happens the client and the provider isn't on the same line?), and I'm curious if it's to abide by the local law in the region. Dunno if Yin Yang(NL) does the same. Although I had no issues with pricing, I paid the same as in DE.

Spain is different. Couple clubs seems standarized. And then, other clubs the girls can reduce the pricing on their choice. Which I don't feel at easy with (since I'm used to DE standards), but it seems more independent.

The positives to standard pricing is the customer and the provider are on the same page which decreases chances of conflicts. This all depends on the club, and the additional services that are not clear cut. But, there are establishments, not consider a club, that itemizes pretty much everything.

Member #4581

01-10-16, 21:55

PL- The point UH is making, and I don't want to put words in his mouth. Just the way I interpret, Is that we all are part of several sub groups. Skin color, race and ethnic profile is one. Gender, age, height, look, body shape, accent, language, national origin, etc etc could all be sub groups.

Right now, the discrimination is against a couple of groups based on race and ethnicity. Negative characteristics of that sub group are ascribed to every one in that subgroup. Members of that subgroup are no longer treated as individuals, their identity is ignored and they are just that "Turkish, black, Arab" whatever.

If this discrimination was done along a different plane, say men above 60, men who are taller than 5'9" or men who weigh 200 lb, men whose native language is not German, etc etc, there would be other people crying wolf here.

There are 4 billion people in Asia. In the US, the stereotype of Asians is that they are good in math, eat just rice, can't speak English, and are sneaky, Hispanics are lazy, blacks are violent, etc etc. If you are an Asian, you Will be baffled how you are not treated as an individual, as you yourself, but how you are similar or identical to 4 billion others.

So, the logic goes, a nightclub turns away Turkish, so therefore the stores will soon after have a discriminating policy against the Blacks. Haha.

In DE, there are many clubs, some owned by the Turkish, biker gangs etc.

PussyLiccker

01-10-16, 21:55

I agree the discussion is going nowhere. No one is changing their minds.Discussions at times people will have conflicting opinions, and as stated some topics just will go circular. Don't think for a sec that people are not aware of what's been fed. People read the textbooks, and have ran into things. Don't undermine others for having their opinions.

You want to change my mind? LOL. I like to think I'm independent, and like anybody else, I have my reasons my independent stance.

We can all agree that in DE vs USA, prostitution is legal baby!! And the clubs are man's paradise.

Ararat

01-10-16, 22:58

This part I'm not so clear on. Girls are self employed, yet the pricing is standardized. So, this means that the girls had to agree upon the pricing of the session with the club, no? Some clubs, the pricing is lower, but extras are included depending on the girl's choice. I could understand that girls are self-employed since they pay entry, and they get paid directly, but at the same time they abide by the standard pricing of the club. Somebody pointed out that there is a statement where the pricing is agreed upon BY the girls. So, does that mean that the pricing is agreed upon with the girls on the club's requirements? Of course it does as when there is pricing conflict, the desk knows the pricing what is included or not. Anyway, it's legal stuff. Legal stuff typical means what is written is complied.
I think we all know the girls are not really self employed. Clearly they must abide by the rules if they want to continue working in the clubs. Rules that may make them actual employees in practice. I don't see a problem with a club deciding that no outside food can be eaten or no smoking inside or so on. How much to charge (and what is expected to be provided) is pushing it.

Anyway,

There are other professions where similar things are also discussed. Ryanair's pilots are mostly self-employed but can't work for others and so forth.

McAdonis

01-11-16, 03:26

I'd be curious to get a local Turkish person's take on the situation. From what I see, the local NRW Turks self-segregate. They prefer to drink, socialize, listen to Turkish music, talk loud, and arrive the club late. Older Germans / Dutch not so much. So their preferred methods for socializing and relaxing are diametrically opposed. They would probably annoy each other. Seeing a lonewolf Turkish guy in a club is rare--unless said Turkish guy is actually a tourist from Turkey.

In the big cities where there are ethnic populations, a lot of people just don't identify with German culture. They will tell me that they find "typical Germans" strange, and that they just have one or two German friends that are cool. Heard this from not just Turkish, but Italian, Balkan, Polish, Russian, etc. A lot of them were born in Germany or moved to German at a young age.

But maybe part of the reason Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe is that they are in general more uptight, serious, punctual, and OCD:

http://funcorner.eu/wp-content/uploads/chaos-german-style.jpg

Mr Ho

01-11-16, 04:47

Ararat

01-11-16, 06:31

I'd be curious to get a local Turkish person's take on the situation. From what I see, the local NRW Turks self-segregate. They prefer to drink, socialize, listen to Turkish music, talk loud, and arrive the club late. Older Germans / Dutch not so much. So their preferred methods for socializing and relaxing are diametrically opposed. They would probably annoy each other. Seeing a lonewolf Turkish guy in a club is rare--unless said Turkish guy is actually a tourist from Turkey.

In the big cities where there are ethnic populations, a lot of people just don't identify with German culture. They will tell me that they find "typical Germans" strange, and that they just have one or two German friends that are cool. Heard this from not just Turkish, but Italian, Balkan, Polish, Russian, etc. A lot of them were born in Germany or moved to German at a young age.
The funny thing is that most of these are rejected in their home countries for being too German.

But maybe part of the reason Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe is that they are in general more uptight, serious, punctual, and OCD:

Of course,

It's obviously this way. If you want to be successful you have to pay a certain price.

Neurosynth

01-11-16, 07:12

Question: And what if waitresses at a restaurant don't want to serve Turkish people because the waitresses believe Turkish people are rude, don't respect women, and tip poorly? Shouldn't the restaurant be able to categorically reject Turkish people (or people who look Turkish) from entering the restaurant as a whole?

Answer: No (and happily, the law agrees with me on this).

First, I'm not arguing legal facts or referencing existing law. I'm talking about my beliefs regarding right and wrong.

And my contention is that there is a difference between serving someone a pizza and having someone climb on you and then stick part of their body into your body. Society has an interest in having public accommodations open to all, but society also has an interest in protecting *bodily autonomy. * Under law a living body, I. E. A person, is routinely treated differently than property or an object. When it comes to sex the law should make control of one's own body a higher priority than the marketplace.

Hessen Bub

01-11-16, 07:48

In the big cities where there are ethnic populations, a lot of people just don't identify with German culture.

These people wouldn't identify with English, Scandinavian, Austrian, Swiss or French culture as well.

HB.

Wolvenvacht

01-11-16, 08:15

First, I'm not arguing legal facts or referencing existing law. I'm talking about my beliefs regarding right and wrong.

And my contention is that there is a difference between serving someone a pizza and having someone climb on you and then stick part of their body into your body. Society has an interest in having public accommodations open to all, but society also has an interest in protecting *bodily autonomy. * Under law a living body, I. E. A person, is routinely treated differently than property or an object. When it comes to sex the law should make control of one's own body a higher priority than the marketplace.Yes, there is a difference and everyone may take a decision on an individual basis, but not on basis of broad generalizations ("all Turks", "all Jews", "all gays", "all Catholics", "all. . .") related to the irrelevant categories of ethnic origin, gender, religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation.

The law applies to many fields of social life, such as conditions for access to dependent employment and self-employment, access to and supply of goods and services which are available to the public and social protection, including social security and health care ("refugee crisis" anyone?).

There are very few exceptions possible, one being that the discrimination serves the avoidance of threats, the prevention of damage or another purpose of a comparable nature.

Once the discriminated against partiy is able to establish facts from which it may be presumed that there has been discrimination, it shall be for the other party to prove that there has been no breach of the provisions prohibiting discrimination.

These and similar rules generally apply everywhere in the European Union.

UltraHappy

01-11-16, 13:41

First, I'm not arguing legal facts or referencing existing law. I'm talking about my beliefs regarding right and wrong.

And my contention is that there is a difference between serving someone a pizza and having someone climb on you and then stick part of their body into your body. Society has an interest in having public accommodations open to all, but society also has an interest in protecting *bodily autonomy. * Under law a living body, I. E. A person, is routinely treated differently than property or an object. When it comes to sex the law should make control of one's own body a higher priority than the marketplace.Yes, we are all in agreement on that point. No one here was arguing otherwise. Indeed, in prior posts, I and others acknowledged just that.

The discussion you were quoting was discussing the right of the restaurant itself or the sauna club itself (not its workers) to racially discriminate. The hypothetical you were quoting was discussing whether a restaurant as a whole should be able to exclude people because of the racial preferences of the workers at the restaurant. The only reason we were discussing this point was because someone suggested that a sauna club ought to have the right to racially discriminate if the sauna club somehow thought that some their workers didn't want to go to the room with a particular racial classification.

In other words, Turkish people should have the right to eat overcooked sauna club meats even if it turned out that some of the girls in that sauna club didn't want to go to the room with the Turks. And my point was merely that this is indeed what German law says. A previous poster was suggesting that it was simply to burdernsom for the girls to have to say no to these Turks and that the better course of action was to simply not let the Turks in the club in the first place. NB: "Turks" are just being used here as an example since that's what most of the racists here seem to be focused on. No disrespect intended to our Turkish readers.

Jimmy Boy 99

01-11-16, 13:56

These people wouldn't identify with English, Scandinavian, Austrian, Swiss or French culture as well.

HB.Muslims are not in these countries to adopt their host countries' cultures (Islam requires that they stay apart from the local population and seek to convert them instead) but to outbreed the host populations (with the help of government welfare) and turn their host countries into the same kind of shitholes they originally came from.

PussyLiccker

01-11-16, 14:51

When people come to a country with a different culture, they have their reason for doing so, better opportunity, quality of living, etc. Doesn't guarantee easy assimilate to the culture (they do sacrifice what is familiar to them to come to an unknown territory). There will be some difference in culture, as countries have their distinctive cultures. When in the country, people may expect the country to be more sensitive to their upbringing, religious beliefs, and ect. Some countries are more sensitive to this due to conflicts that has occurred in the past, the beliefs based on how the country was founded, the more heterogeneous mixture of the population. But, the situation is that it's not always will be case that a distinct ethnicity will fully assimilate due to the radical difference in culture.

When coming to a country, it should be expected that there will be differences, and that one has to adjust when moving to another country. Some culture likely can identify better with others, but other could be more distanced due to greater differences. If there is differences in culture, it just means that those people have a different upbringing, beliefs, etc. , which creates a inner complex due to conflicting cultural differences, but in the end they are the immigrants to a country that the majority that would be different from them. So, the natural response would be segregation and assimilation of common types due to comfort level of familiarity in culture. This happens in the US as well, immigrants most likely, and the next generation will start to assimilate with more ease.

Just a price one pay when moving to another country with a different culture. It's about how well / open they are to the new culture that makes a difference. If one is pretty reluctant, they will only look at the differences and likely complain. But, if looked outside the box, they are in country with majority of people that has created their own distinct culture which may not lineup with theirs.

SwingerLover

01-11-16, 20:10

Question: And what if waitresses at a restaurant don't want to serve Turkish people because the waitresses believe Turkish people are rude, don't respect women, Then the owner will kick them out. Period!

Lately, at a so-called "refugee" facility, one of those animals threw the food he was served into the face of the woman who served him. Just because he didn't want to be served by a female. Tell me: What do you do with such a bigott piece of shit? Right: You fire the woman from her job!

That doesn't translate into some sort of categorical right for the nightclub that they work for to deny entry for food and wellness services.Ah. But it should turn into a categorial right for bigott assholes to behave like the world belongs exclusively to them?

You have obviously never been at a club where Turks have behaved like that. Otherwise you would not have written all the stuff you posted here.

Rest assured, if you would own a restaurant or nightclub where you constantly have trouble with only the same kind of people, then you wouldn't let them in anymore either. Another example: Two so-called refugees go to a barber shop to get a haircut, then say "Thank you, Germany" and leave without paying. I suppose if the barber shop wants payment upfront from "refugees" from now on, you would like to label them 'racist' as well.

Who are the racists here? It's those bigott assholes who think that they are better than anyone else and therefore have to serve them. Unfortunately for the 90 % of decent Turks who also suffer the fallout from their fellow countrymen who don't know how to behave.

If a nightclub categorically throws people out who become drunk and rowdy, that's totally permissible if it's not done on the basis of race.Yes, and if it's always the same bunch of the same ethnicity, then they call the club owner a racist.

Race based service is illegal.

And any race based admission policy is also illegal, as proved in the links provided by UH.Okay, let's implement this strategy on the clubs who do Black & White parties and where blacks get in at half price, solely because of the colour of their skin. I've never heard anybody complaining about this sort of racism. It's high time for white guys to file a class action PIL case at the closest court about this.

Disco can refuse entry for many reason! It's normal that a club or disco have a door policy it's the first rule to prevent problems.
They have a african disco or rumanian club and every nights have police due to knife fight.
Different if they come alone with a girlfriend, in that case they can go in without any problem.
Racism? NO, is intelligence!Right on point!

Mr Ho

01-11-16, 21:22

As an outsider, I admire effort in EU when it comes to subject of racism. I take my hat off for that.

But sometimes, as a outsider and me being non white as well. I feel sometimes, this racism thing is going to far in EU meaning, it is becoming like the card they cut and being too sensitive about it.

Yes it is sensitive topic to deal with, but when I saw the news about cologne station protest and I see police not dealing with the incident, but dealing with the protest. I thought the way how German authority or EU propaganda makers handle this race issue in EU is getting bit too extreme meaning, if you are refugee you get all pass, and if you protest for anything about it, even when it seems people had right to do so, then one is call racist. I mean it is just an opinion, but it seemed bit too much sometimes to see how this racism card is cut too much.

As for some door policy, there must be a reason to do with recurring accumulated event and owner got extreme to handle the issue or maybe the club in the region had problem with gangs penetrating in to clubs. As far as I know, clubs in NRW had huge problem with some gangs before and maybe owner had too much of bad experience and decided to ban anyone who even look like belonging to such ethnic gang. Remember, when you show kindness to some certain people, they do not see it as kindness, they only see your kindness as weakness. Some cultures are just different and this is the truth not many speak out about and the result of such cocktail seems terrible as outsider. I am not saying mixture of different race, culture or whatever cannot be done, but it has to be right mix in order to harmonize.

Ok, now I am going to be called racist LOL.

Exodus8

01-11-16, 22:55

Then the owner will kick them out. Period!

Lately, at a so-called "refugee" facility, one of those animals threw the food he was served into the face of the woman who served him. Just because he didn't want to be served by a female. Tell me: What do you do with such a bigott piece of shit? Right: You fire the woman from her job!

Ah. But it should turn into a categorial right for bigott assholes to behave like the world belongs exclusively to them?

You have obviously never been at a club where Turks have behaved like that. Otherwise you would not have written all the stuff you posted here.

Rest assured, if you would own a restaurant or nightclub where you constantly have trouble with only the same kind of people, then you wouldn't let them in anymore either. Another example: Two so-called refugees go to a barber shop to get a haircut, then say "Thank you, Germany" and leave without paying. I suppose if the barber shop wants payment upfront from "refugees" from now on, you would like to label them 'racist' as well.

Right on point!You mean the so called "rapefugees" right? LOL. Sick that Europe and its leaders decided to infest their countries with these and let their own citizen get killed, raped by them.

UltraHappy

01-12-16, 02:50

Muslims are not in these countries to adopt their host countries' cultures (Islam requires that they stay apart from the local population and seek to convert them instead) but to outbreed the host populations (with the help of government welfare) and turn their host countries into the same kind of shitholes they originally came from.Dear Mr. 99,

If what you are saying is true, then it is all the more IMPERATIVE that we put in place a strong foundation for equal rights and non-discrimination.

The evidence shows that due to disparate birth rates, white Germans will eventually become the minority in Germany. The same thing is happening in the USA as well. It won't be long before us American Whites in the USA are the minority. Population projections predict that it is inevitable that us Whites will become the minority in our respective countries over the next few decades.

Without a strong system of anti-discrimination in place, us Whites will have no protection against discrimination in the future when inevitably we become the minority if we don't lay the groundwork now. If we oppress minorities and discriminate against them over the next 20-30 years, how do you think they will treat us Whites when we inevitably become the minority?

I agree with you that large percentage of the Muslim populations have some really wacked out ideas about stuff. But, I would ask you -- is the solution to discriminate against them and oppress them as they will inevitably grow in size and influence? If we really want to bring about change in the Muslim culture, we should start building and staffing secular schools in their countries among other things (though that would make too much sense). That will influence them far quicker than bombing them -- though I agree that some of them good use a good bombing right now.

Also keep in mind that the General Act of Equal Treatment of 2006 in Germany is not limited to merely race. It also speaks to anti-discrimination on the basis of ethnic origin, gender, religion or belief, disability, age or even sexual orientation. Yours and your friends religion may one day be the minority. You may become disabled one day. Do you really want to throw away the protections that this law potentially offers you and your friends over the coming years? We will all become old one day. Do you not see the benefit that anti-age discrimination laws offer us? Age discrimination in the employment context in Germany is a big problem -- Germany still lags behind the USA On this point, even though the USA Still has more work to do on this.

So many comments here suggest that anti-discrimination laws would result in a slippery slope so that businesses will become paralyzed and not be able to operate for fear of people bringing false claims of discrimination. This is downright silly. For one, this is ALREADY the law in Germany and has been the law in Germany for decade already and these fears have certainly not been realized.

For an example of how such a robust system of non-discrimination laws can work, you only have to look to the USA We have very robust anti-discrimination laws and yet, we do not have this problem of businesses being paralyzed by a fear of people bringing false claims of discrimination against the businesses. Why do we not have this problem? The answer is simple. The decision-makers in courts are not stupid. Ok, some are stupid, but for the most part, our judicial system does an excellent job of evaluating the merit of false discrimination claims. Business and life goes on swimmingly in the USA, yes, even with our robust system of anti-discrimination protections in place.

I am not suggesting that there is no more discrimination in the USA anymore -- it is still alive and well here, but we've improved a lot since even a decade ago.

Member #4581

01-12-16, 04:30

During WW2, my country interned thousands of Japanese in concentration camps, if we do away with euphemisms. These were not Japanese prisoners of war. These were Americans of Japanese descent, (much like that student guy, a Turk but probably born and raised in Germany). I guess they did something too, to deserve it, back then.

Now, and in fact for several decades now, my countrymen have reflected on our own conduct. While a few like Trump might disagree (actually, trump has spoken about many things but not that issue yet), by and large most Americans do think it was a shameful episode in our history. We don't think we went too far in being sensitive, or that the Japanese deserved it and they brought it upon themselves....I guess we are not listening to the people here.

Keep in mind too, that is still a country, even today, where you see signs like "gaijin and dogs are not allowed". And during the war, they raped and sex slaved thousands and thousands of Asian women. Perhaps we should brand every person from that country as a sex criminal? That would be a disgusting and criminal act, if we ever we stooped to that level. But some members here want to do that to the Turks, Moroccans, whatever. I think crimes committed a while ago are long past, but even now, millions of Koreans and more than a billion Chinese disagree with me. They think the Japanese did those things but never paid for their crimes.

And to your last sentence. It hardly matters if anyone, or even everyone here is a racist. Racist is jUst a label. Not very meaningful, no more than hurling f words at others on the Internet. What matters to me at least is that a commercial establishment in Germany may be breaking the German law, and I want to see if German prosecutors will follow up on the judge from Hannover.

(Speaking of my party stalwart Mr trump, it was not too long ago, right here on these pages, that a prolific poster tried to insult one of my compatriots with "bring Donald", lol. I actually thought it was a cute line. I like the trumpster much of the time, may even vote for him who knows, but I thought he veered off into the deep end with his Moslem comment, which most Europeans, like proper liberals, promptly condemned. Now, the Don only called for a Moslem ban and that too, non citizens. But if he listened to the isg glitterati, he would have to extend his call to Moslems, blacks, Arabs, Turks, and anyone who is not a proper white or yellow skinned Asian)

As an outsider, I admire effort in EU when it comes to subject of racism. I take my hat off for that.

But sometimes, as a outsider and me being non white as well. I feel sometimes, this racism thing is going to far in EU meaning, it is becoming like the card they cut and being too sensitive about it.

Yes it is sensitive topic to deal with, but when I saw the news about cologne station protest and I see police not dealing with the incident, but dealing with the protest. I thought the way how German authority or EU propaganda makers handle this race issue in EU is getting bit too extreme meaning, if you are refugee you get all pass, and if you protest for anything about it, even when it seems people had right to do so, then one is call racist. I mean it is just an opinion, but it seemed bit too much sometimes to see how this racism card is cut too much.

As for some door policy, there must be a reason to do with recurring accumulated event and owner got extreme to handle the issue or maybe the club in the region had problem with gangs penetrating in to clubs. As far as I know, clubs in NRW had huge problem with some gangs before and maybe owner had too much of bad experience and decided to ban anyone who even look like belonging to such ethnic gang. Remember, when you show kindness to some certain people, they do not see it as kindness, they only see your kindness as weakness. Some cultures are just different and this is the truth not many speak out about and the result of such cocktail seems terrible as outsider. I am not saying mixture of different race, culture or whatever cannot be done, but it has to be right mix in order to harmonize.

Ok, now I am going to be called racist LOL.

Mr Ho

01-12-16, 05:13

During WW2, my country interned thousands of Japanese in concentration camps, if we do away with euphemisms. These were not Japanese prisoners of war. These were Americans of Japanese descent, (much like that student guy, a Turk but probably born and raised in Germany). I guess they did something too, to deserve it, back then.

Now, and in fact for several decades now, my countrymen have reflected on our own conduct. While a few like Trump might disagree (actually, trump has spoken about many things but not that issue yet), by and large most Americans do think it was a shameful episode in our history. We don't think we went too far in being sensitive, or that the Japanese deserved it and they brought it upon themselves....I guess we are not listening to the people here.

Keep in mind too, that is still a country, even today, where you see signs like "gaijin and dogs are not allowed". And during the war, they raped and sex slaved thousands and thousands of Asian women. Perhaps we should brand every person from that country as a sex criminal? That would be a disgusting and criminal act, if we ever we stooped to that level. But some members here want to do that to the Turks, Moroccans, whatever. I think crimes committed a while ago are long past, but even now, millions of Koreans and more than a billion Chinese disagree with me. They think the Japanese did those things but never paid for their crimes.

And to your last sentence. It hardly matters if anyone, or even everyone here is a racist. Racist is jUst a label. Not very meaningful, no more than hurling f words at others on the Internet. What matters to me at least is that a commercial establishment in Germany may be breaking the German law, and I want to see if German prosecutors will follow up on the judge from Hannover.

(Speaking of my party stalwart Mr trump, it was not too long ago, right here on these pages, that a prolific poster tried to insult one of my compatriots with "bring Donald", lol. I actually thought it was a cute line. I like the trumpster much of the time, may even vote for him who knows, but I thought he veered off into the deep end with his Moslem comment, which most Europeans, like proper liberals, promptly condemned. Now, the Don only called for a Moslem ban and that too, non citizens. But if he listened to the isg glitterati, he would have to extend his call to Moslems, blacks, Arabs, Turks, and anyone who is not a proper white or yellow skinned Asian)We are more tolerant for what happened between us during the war comparison to other nations, I mean. Nuclear bomb was not nice thing, but we do not protest or appeal about that to the world comparison to other nations related to that kind of staff.

Our understanding is that, it was war, during war nasty things happen, so that is that and now it is over. I think US / Japan relation is good eg of how vicious enemies became friends.

Trump made a lot of money off Japanese during 80's and he also knows who is the biggest buyer of US bond for past few decades (not 2012 as we had mega quake during 2011, so we needed money for us in 2012), so he tone down a bit when he talk about Japan. He is just a basket for extreme conservative and his extreme words are his marketing strategy. I do not think he will win the election against Hilary, though I am more republican than democrat.

However, being too sensitive about race and ignoring and try to shut down the own German people in cologne is wrong thing to do and also being too sensitive about racial related issue make things and atmosphere worst in nation and drive nation to extreme right, so I think this refugee issue should be more talked about in EU. I mean it is scary to see the uprising of extreme right in many different part of the world. Including here, though we always been rather right LOL.

Anyways, Syrian girls are hot and I would love to find them in FKK in near future! In any occasion I am not right, left or whatever, I am just a pro monger who like to fuck beautiful girls from all over the world.

Only beautiful girl I have not fucked is girl with natural red hair. I always look for beauties from all different segment I divide (like Arab, Latina, Asian, Slavs, German people, Muslim, half black, even gorgeous black, tattooed up girl, Mohawk etc, but all has to be beautiful ones), but I think natural red hair girl like the actress in zero dark thirty I have not fucked, so I am on mission to seek for beautiful young natural red hair girl. Hmmmmm it will be hard to even find natural red hair girl in FKK.

Banana Boi

01-12-16, 05:47

We really need to start a racism thread.

Hessen Bub

01-12-16, 08:00

I am not suggesting that there is no more discrimination in the USA anymore -- it is still alive and well here, but we've improved a lot since even a decade ago.And IMHO Germany is years ahead of the USA.

HB.

Carpe Viam

01-12-16, 08:00

It's normal that girls show their distaste for certain types of customers. But occasionally, I was surprised by some famous "Easy girls" (good service provider) who tell me their distaste for certain race.

We really need to start a racism thread.I am delighted to continue to hear confessions of racist.

McAdonis

01-12-16, 09:14

Remember, when you show kindness to some certain people, they do not see it as kindness, they only see your kindness as weakness.
Agree with this statement, but I don't think it is based on culture or skin color. For example, I would echo your above statement when speaking about criminals and prostitutes. As we know, criminals and prostitues come from every ethnic background imaginable: Black, White, Japanese, Gypsy, Romanian, etc.

In the past, I've said things like there are higher incidences of criminals among certain groups. That is not to say that I don't have friends from those groups that I trust. That just means I am careful, haha

SwingerLover

01-12-16, 19:42

You mean the so called "rapefugees" right? LOL. Sick that Europe and its leaders decided to infest their countries with these and let their own citizen get killed, raped by them.That's the point I'm trying to bring across here. If the situation was reversed and Central European people would behave like that in Muslim countries, they would get executed right away.

Yes it is sensitive topic to deal with, but when I saw the news about cologne station protest and I see police not dealing with the incident, but dealing with the protest.Yes, of course, that's just like those "police" cowards. Leave the 'rapefugees' (Nice word creation by Exodus8 by the way.) undisturbed when they molest women, but then get active against people who complain about "police" laziness. And then those "police" bozos wonder about why they are approached with less and less respect.

The Cane

01-13-16, 03:17

And IMHO Germany is years ahead of the USA.

HB.We know HB. We know. You've told us many times before. Well, I'll give it to you when it comes to the sex industry. You have us beat there for sure! You make better beer and sausages than we do (although Americans can make some damn good sausages). I like German automobiles and flying Lufthansa. But other than that, in most things I'm taking America, including our American dollar over the long haul versus your European euro. You would have been better off sticking with Deutsch marks.

Hessen Bub

01-13-16, 07:45

You would have been better off sticking with Deutsch marks.Agreed.

HB.

PussyLiccker

01-13-16, 11:10

But maybe part of the reason Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe is that they are in general more uptight, serious, punctual, and OCD:

http://funcorner.eu/wp-content/uploads/chaos-german-style.jpgOk, some stuff I noticed in DE.

I used to do trains to Oase, and often times the time would be shown of when the train would arrive. I recall one instance I got to the train stop early. Like close(minute or two) to when the train was to arrive masses of people would start to come to the catch the train. Punctual?

I was at the Airport when the checkout system was down. Mass number of people waiting. What did they do? They would get everybody through the kiosks, and get their bags checked. It was so damn fast! I have seen some really unorganized stuff outside DE.

When I arrive at Frankfurt Airport, most often customs is quick as hell. The security goes through quick too with numbers of security checks in parallel. I have been to airports in the US, and they do some ridiculous shit and masses of people would be waiting in long lines.

Perhaps above are expectation bias?

I recall talking to a Ro girl, and I think she was new. She made a remark about some German guy she talked to, and he would talk about his schedule. She said, it's weird why he talk in detail about his schedule, why do they have to make same schedule and do the same every week?

When you talk to girls, they will most often talk about other ethnicities if you are not of that ethnicity. Me being from outside Germany, some will say they don't like German or don't like Germany etc. , and bad mouth them. It's not surprising the girls would express their feelings freely as long as you are not part of the demographics they are talkin about. Girls will say good thing about you as it's part of the sale, and they are looking to seal the deal, and want regular business, so they will avoid talking about anything critical about you or your people. They will say mostly what you want to hear. Stroke the ego per say.

When girls talk about Dutch guys, tend to be positive. Like they are pretty lively or whatnot. Probably limited what I hear about them due to limited Ro girls meeting them perhaps.

Just stuff I've heard and seen, that's all.

SwingerLover

01-13-16, 12:40

You would have been better off sticking with Deutsch marks.Ah, Deutsche Mark! You're completely right about that. The problem is that Germany is not a democracy, otherwise we would still pay with Mark and Pfennig today.

Me being from outside Germany, some will say they don't like German or don't like Germany etc. , and bad mouth them. It's not surprising the girls would express their feelings freely as long as you are not part of the demographics they are talkin about.

When girls talk about Dutch guys, tend to be positive. Like they are pretty lively or whatnot. Probably limited what I hear about them due to limited Ro girls meeting them perhaps.This comes naturally IMO. Dutch guys who drive all the way to Germany (same as other punters from abroad) are usually the decent kind, whereas the girls are not just confronted with decent Germans, but with local trash as well. Local Dutch trash will stay in NL and not drive across a border. No wonder that the trash the girls meet is almost exclusively from the same city or region.
And the cheaper the services are offered, the more likely it is that the girls scrape off something from the bottom of mankind.

Hessen Bub

01-13-16, 13:08

Girls will talk bad about Turkish, Asians, Italians, Indians if you are German. They will talk about German and French when you are Dutch. Just the way it is.

HB.

Optimist

01-13-16, 15:47

Girls will talk bad about Turkish, Asians, Italians, Indians if you are German. They will talk about German and French when you are Dutch. Just the way it is.

HB.And if you are English they will talk bad about the English and their drinking habits!

Never heard a girl talk bad about a regular high paying customer, whatever nationality. Money trumps racism. Mind you, she might look miserable at the impending appointment...

Optimist

01-13-16, 15:56

PL. As a foreign visitor the positive things you mention hit me every single time I go to Germany. Germans EXPECT things to work and moan at the slightest mishap. In my country people expect everything to fail as this is what experience shows.

I would suggest that Germany has many things, physical and cultural to be proud of, even if it is very far from perfect.

How to survive in Germany? Have the appropriate official stamp for all activities lol.

Wolvenvacht

01-13-16, 19:45

You would have been better off sticking with Deutsch marks.Absolutely wrong. The economic crisis would have wiped out the economy of many of the smaller European countries already and would have reducied the bigger economies to insignificance on the global scale too.

Don't forget that the major part of the European's economy is within Europe. Even the British, stalwarthly hanging on to their Pound, can only survive thanks to the big block of unified Europe of which they are a part, like it or not.

What Europe need is more integration, not less.

What do you think would happen if each US State can independently set their "own" currency rates and decide on "their" economy without regard to the other States?

Banana Boi

01-13-16, 22:37

Girls will talk bad about .... French Just the girls?

The Cane

01-13-16, 23:59

What do you think would happen if each US State can independently set their "own" currency rates and decide on "their" economy without regard to the other States?Errr that's a part of the euro's problem now! A single currency without a solid, single monetary policy and economy! You want to know what happens? Then look at Europe now LOLOLOL! The United States is one nation while the Euro Zone is still a collection of separate countries trying to act like a single entity. And failing miserably at it at that! Look at how the whole refugee crisis is being "managed", if you can call it that. Europe will never be "one" as there are just too many geopolitical divisions that won't allow that to ever happen. Mark my words.

Member #4581

01-14-16, 00:36

Germany has been the biggest beneficiary of a weak Euro. Most economists are in agreement on this. Economists and strategists from various investment banks have estimated that German GDP received a boost of $25 to $50 billion a year due to being in the weak euro.

While Germany is not as imbalanced as China, which has only 40% or less of its GDP from consumption, Germany (54%) is still far below the US (68%) in terms of percent of GDP from consumption. It is a export driven economy. Weak local currency is very beneficial to export growth. During the Greek and Euro financial crisis, many German citizens were clamoring to kick out Greece and if needed all the PIGS but few serious German economists entertained that idea; leaving euro would have led to a massive appreciation of the the mark, and it kills their exports.

Swiss, a similar economy to the Germans, have independent currency. They desperately needed a weak currency to keep their exports up, so for a long time, they pegged to the euro, until they could not do so anymore, and removed the peg last year beginning and that was a traumatic event for both euro and Swiss franc, not to mention Swiss exports in the last year.

In fact, economists estimated Germany benefited more than $150 billion due to the lower interest expenses since the euro crisis broke out.

Wiedmann and his cohorts may make comments for public consumption, and to aid Merkel on the politics side, but in the end, they went along with Draghi as opposed to leaving euro. It is not out of altruism, and not because of feeling solidarity with Greece and Spain. Leaving would have been terrible for their GDP at least in the short term.

Every day Germans might feel hot under the collar about euro v mark, and if it is a retiree with fixed income retirement a weak euro is not useful to them, but there is no question that German workers benefited so much from a weak euro. There have been several dozens of articles in FT and wsj over the last few years, not to mention several detailed research pieces from economists and investment strategists.

The Cane

01-14-16, 01:21

Every day Germans might feel hot under the collar about euro v mark, and if it is a retiree with fixed income retirement a weak euro is not useful to them, but there is no question that German workers benefited so much from a weak euro. There have been several dozens of articles in FT and wsj over the last few years, not to mention several detailed research pieces from economists and investment strategists.You're absolutely right, but I always look at it from my own selfish perspective hahaha! I as a person who travels a lot want a strong currency in my wallet and not a weak one. Give me a strong dollar any day because that gives me individual buying power around the globe as a world traveler. I empathize with that German retiree on a fixed income who values the buying power of his money. Give me marks!

Member #4581

01-14-16, 05:24

If you are getting paid in dollars, or have most of your net worth in dollars, this weak euro of last year and half is a boon. We are better off by roughly 20-25% depending on exact times of measurement. If Germany had left euro and gone back to marks, their currency would have been stronger and our dollars would go less distance. So, the current situation is good for American tourists and mongers in Germany.

If you are a German getting paid in euro, it would seem you are neutral, but my point is that you are actually better off, because German economy was stronger due to weak euro. If they had left euro and gone back to marks, exports would have been weaker, and some germans would not have had jobs.

If you are a German retiree, and living on a fixed income retirement, you are worse off, because you benefit less from a robust GDP because your income is fixed. But weak local currency makes your purchasing power less and inflation higher depending on what it is you are buying (imported stuff is obviously more expensive). At least the FKK prices stayed stable, for them.

BTW, in the last few weeks, renminbi is slowly depreciating due to China policies. Chinese tourists globally are already slowing down. I wonder if it is showing up at Oase. This is slow season now, but this has got to be worrying for mr Mauro. Not sure how many of his Asian customer base is Chinese as opposed to Japanese or Korean, etc. But in general, most Asian economies are slowing sharply and currencies weakening there (won down to 1200 for a dollar now), I suspect you will see the impact at Oase soon. Perhaps some of those girls will migrate away or move to sharks - always churning, but might see even more of it.

You're absolutely right, but I always look at it from my own selfish perspective hahaha! I as a person who travels a lot want a strong currency in my wallet and not a weak one. Give me a strong dollar any day because that gives me individual buying power around the globe as a world traveler. I empathize with that German retiree on a fixed income who values the buying power of his money. Give me marks!

PussyLiccker

01-14-16, 15:15

Errr that's a part of the euro's problem now! A single currency without a solid, single monetary policy and economy! You want to know what happens? Then look at Europe now LOLOLOL! The United States is one nation while the Euro Zone is still a collection of separate countries trying to act like a single entity. And failing miserably at it at that! Look at how the whole refugee crisis is being "managed", if you can call it that. Europe will never be "one" as there are just too many geopolitical divisions that won't allow that to ever happen. Mark my words.This is it. There difference is US is a country although regions are separated into states. Compared to the Euro currency which countries have adapted. One of the purpose of the common currency was due to the fluctuating exchange rate for trade. Also, the countries had to meet criteria for the them to be included in the Euro currency. As Greece met the criteria, but by falsifying their books by doing a currency swap with Goldman Sachs. With the crisis, they borrowed so much from Germany and France with very high interest. Although, the funds were supposed to bring their economy up, it actually ends up going back the German banks. So basically, the Germans see their money going to Greece, but in actuality it's going the German banks.

Citizen Kane

01-14-16, 18:14

This is it. There difference is US is a country although regions are separated into states. Compared to the Euro currency which countries have adapted. One of the purpose of the common currency was due to the fluctuating exchange rate for trade. Also, the countries had to meet criteria for the them to be included in the Euro currency. As Greece met the criteria, but by falsifying their books by doing a currency swap with Goldman Sachs. With the crisis, they borrowed so much from Germany and France with very high interest. Although, the funds were supposed to bring their economy up, it actually ends up going back the German banks. So basically, the Germans see their money going to Greece, but in actuality it's going the German banks.The biggest problem with the Euro is that you can't have countries with economies as different of Germany and Greece running the same interest rate. If Greece (or any other EZ member except Germany) could have dropped its interest rate to devalue their currency would have helped out their economy massively.

The Eurozone is a halfway house between separate countries and the United States of Europe. The problem is the vast majority of the European population don't want to be part of the USE (or EUSSR) but that won't stop the politicians. To quote Jean-Claude Juncker, "When it becomes serious, you have to lie".

Mr Ho

01-15-16, 00:32

The biggest problem with the Euro is that you can't have countries with economies as different of Germany and Greece running the same interest rate. If Greece (or any other EZ member except Germany) could have dropped its interest rate to devalue their currency would have helped out their economy massively.

The Eurozone is a halfway house between separate countries and the United States of Europe. The problem is the vast majority of the European population don't want to be part of the USE (or EUSSR) but that won't stop the politicians. To quote Jean-Claude Juncker, "When it becomes serious, you have to lie".Stronger economy countries with prompt mentality, similar moral value and society organization should unite. Difference in culture can overcome, but not mentality or organization and related values.

Just uniting countries based on region has disaster affect.

Let see how it will go with EU experiments and now they going to mix that with people from war zone, where conflict has been going on many many centuries. Maybe there will be some positive affect. Like good fast food restaurants.

Either way, for pro mongers, it is all good to see diversity of race in German FKK in near future!

Member #4581

01-16-16, 16:45

There was pretty good article in WSJ yesterday about the impact of Removal of currency peg in Switzerland. If you have access, it is a good read.

It has been one year since they removed the peg and let their currency float / appreciate. So far what they have seen -.

Reduction in GDP.

Reduction in exports.

Reduction of tourism because prices are higher for tourists from abroad.

Relocation of jobs abroad. Some companies shutting plants in Switzerland and relocating to Eastern Europe locations, looking for cheaper labor.

Some layoffs.

Pay freezes and payouts are common.

Several company owners and managers were quoted as saying they will bring pay up back to prior levels if franc came down in value to prior levels.

I suspect if you are a Swiss retiree and want to monger in Germany, your life is good. If you are a younger, Swiss worker then your life is worse than before (not for everyone of course, but on average).

SwingerLover

01-16-16, 20:40

Absolutely wrong. The economic crisis would have wiped out the economy of many of the smaller European countries already and would have reducied the bigger economies to insignificance on the global scale too.

What do you think would happen if each US State can independently set their "own" currency rates and decide on "their" economy without regard to the other States?That's Bullshit! If the European countries would have kept their own currencies along with the appropriate interest rates, there would never have been any financial or economic crisis. If Germany had kept the Mark and the Bundesbank had kept the interest rates up where they belonged, then Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac would never have been able to create the US housing bubble, because interest rates in the US would have stayed up too. And if there were appropriate interest rates, the Chinese could not have created their current housing bubble, which I expect to implode this year.

Cane & Kane are quite right with their assessments:

Errr that's a part of the euro's problem now! A single currency without a solid, single monetary policy and economy! You want to know what happens? Then look at Europe now LOLOLOL! The United States is one nation while the Euro Zone is still a collection of separate countries trying to act like a single entity. And failing miserably at it at that! Look at how the whole refugee crisis is being "managed", if you can call it that. Europe will never be "one" as there are just too many geopolitical divisions that won't allow that to ever happen. Mark my words.

The biggest problem with the Euro is that you can't have countries with economies as different of Germany and Greece running the same interest rate. If Greece (or any other EZ member except Germany) could have dropped its interest rate to devalue their currency would have helped out their economy massively.

The Eurozone is a halfway house between separate countries and the United States of Europe. The problem is the vast majority of the European population don't want to be part of the USE (or EUSSR) but that won't stop the politicians. To quote Jean-Claude Juncker, "When it becomes serious, you have to lie".I'm especially fond of Kane's correct assessment regarding the "EUSSR". That's right on point and describes what they are planning to create. The EU has no similarity whatsoever with the United States of America, instead it's pretty much build up like a so-called "council democracy", just like the USSR had been. The EU is about as democratic as the USSR was.

Germany has been the biggest beneficiary of a weak Euro. Most economists are in agreement on this.

Swiss, a similar economy to the Germans, have independent currency. They desperately needed a weak currency to keep their exports up,

Every day Germans might feel hot under the collar about euro v mark, and if it is a retiree with fixed income retirement a weak euro is not useful to them, but there is no question that German workers benefited so much from a weak euro. There have been several dozens of articles in FT and wsj over the last few years, not to mention several detailed research pieces from economists and investment strategists.More Bullshit! What gives you the idea that a weak currency would be good for the economy? The strongest economy in Germany in the past 100 years was in the 50s when there was also the strongest time of the D-Mark. The Swiss even have a strong currency for much longer and are still one of the wealthiest people in the world.

No German worker ever benefitted from a weak Euro. The cost of living (especially gasoline and heating oil) rose much faster than any raise of income or pensions. People who saved their money get ripped off by obscenely low interest rates for over 15 years by now. Almost everything costs as much in Euro as it used to cost in D-Mark, if not even more.

Do you really expect to get real information from banker's propaganda magazines like FT or WSJ? And since when is research from so-called 'economists' good for anything? Did any of them predict the financial crisis of 2008? Did they warn about the Japanese crash of the early 90's? What did they say in early October 1929? So forget about them! Just brace yourself for this year's coming financial and economic crash, propably initiated by the implosion of the Chinese housing bubble.

Use your money to enjoy mongering, as long as you still have it.

Citizen Kane

01-16-16, 20:52

So SL, I assume you're planning to vote Leave?

Hessen Bub

01-16-16, 21:25

Use your money to enjoy mongering, as long as you still have it.Couldn't agree more.

HB.

ZimmerBaby

01-19-16, 08:15

Hessen Bub

01-19-16, 09:00

Does it have to be FKK? Try ladies. De There you can set a filter to unshaved: "behaart" or "stark behaart".

HB.

ZimmerBaby

01-19-16, 09:12

Does it have to be FKK? Try ladies. De There you can set a filter to unshaved: "behaart" or "stark behaart".

HB.Thank you Sir!

Z.

Mr Ho

01-19-16, 09:53

I am really desperate. So tired of shaved ladies. The only place in Berlin I have found hairy pussy is at a sexkino in Mierendorfplatz. She is above 50 years old. I guess these treasures are non-available in the former Habsburg and Kingdom of Prussia. Any info leading me to Bush will be rewarded with kind words and beautiful poetry. Any FFK all around the country is of huge interest.

Thanks.It is not clean to have pubic hair in FKK. So it make sense girls shave them. Well it is too bad that your fetish is pussy hair. In Japan, there are plenty of pussy hair girls. I do not like it though.

DethManRulz

01-19-16, 10:45

I am really desperate. So tired of shaved ladies. The only place in Berlin I have found hairy pussy is at a sexkino in Mierendorfplatz. She is above 50 years old. I guess these treasures are non-available in the former Habsburg and Kingdom of Prussia. Any info leading me to Bush will be rewarded with kind words and beautiful poetry. Any FFK all around the country is of huge interest.

Thanks.Civilian women. One night stands and so on. Plenty of Bush to go around.

SwingerLover

01-19-16, 12:36

Just solo ladies, but maybe you find something here: http://www.haarige-girls.com/.

What HessenBub recommended would be this: http://www.ladies.de/Filter/behaart-1.html.

But there are not just women from Prussia, but from Bavaria, Baden, Hesse, Saxony and Württemberg as well.

ZimmerBaby

01-19-16, 20:30

In Japan, there are plenty of pussy hair girls. I do not like it though.I miss Tokyo. Matsusaka beef, then live show with beautiful young and hairy girls near the Asakusa temple. So many elegant women on the metro.

Thx SL.

Pulse X

01-20-16, 03:24

Hi there!

I will be in Cologne and Munich the first week of February. I have read somewhere in the forum, but don't remember where that there's some club that we can pay a fixed fee like 120 euro and we can have sex all day long with different woman. If you know some of those clubs and want to guide me it would be great! I can travel to other cities as well, but I will be in public transport.

Thanks!

StarletVoyager

01-20-16, 03:49

Try hairy Justine at kamilla dee in Berlin. You can visit her incall style or have the Bush delivered to your hotel for as many hours as you can afford. I tried to meet her in Berlin last month but the girl was fully booked!!

ZimmerBaby

01-20-16, 08:57

SwingerLover

01-20-16, 13:03

that there's some club that we can pay a fixed fee like 120 euro and we can have sex all day long with different woman.You already posted that same question in the FKK FAQ thread and got a reply. So use it. Read up in the Partytreff Clubs forum and search online for "Partytreff" and "Pauschalclub".

Banana Boi

01-21-16, 02:07

Can someone refer me to the more trustworthy real estate agencies in Germany? Will be looking for a place in the NRW area.

Are there things I should be looking out for as a first time home buyer in Germany?

Pulse X

01-21-16, 03:08

You already posted that same question in the FKK FAQ thread and got a reply. So use it. Read up in the Partytreff Clubs forum and search online for "Partytreff" and "Pauschalclub".Thanks a lot, I knew that I have posted this question but didn't remember where I had posted it! So thanks for the link.

SwingerLover

01-21-16, 14:56

Can someone refer me to the more trustworthy real estate agencies in Germany? Will be looking for a place in the NRW area.No idea, but you should be safe with real estate agencies attached to a bank, like Sparkasse, Volksbank etc. But it doesn't really matter, since the whole deal has to be handled by a notary anyway. So it's really all just about the cost and quality of the real estate agencies.

Are there things I should be looking out for as a first time home buyer in Germany? You should get a proof of ownership from the "Katasteramt", not just the "Grundbuch".

Along with owning a home comes a gazillion of dues, fees, excise taxes and 'contributions' which BureauKrauts will demand from you just because you own the place.

Breadman

01-21-16, 20:36

http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-full-list

But will it remain so with all the migrant problems that are creeping up?

Abox79

01-21-16, 21:26

Is carnival time in NRW a good time to visit Aca, GT and LR. Does carnival time have a bad, good or indifferent effect on club experiences in this area?

Mr Ho

01-21-16, 21:32

http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-full-list

But will it remain so with all the migrant problems that are creeping up?For me as long as FKK is legal Germany is the best.

Katinka

01-21-16, 23:22

Banana Boi

01-21-16, 23:26

Thanks SL. Helpful info. I've purchased real estate in other countries. Wondering if Germany had any glitches for foreigners buying real estate.

The price of some of these apartments (although not very nice and far away like Duisburg, Essen, Wuppertal, etc.) seem too good to be true. 25-50,000 euro for most places. Some places for 12-15,000 euro? Where I'm from people pay way more than that for rent each year.

Is it customary for Germans to take their kitchens with them from apartment to apartment?

Breadman

01-22-16, 00:38

Is it customary for Germans to take their kitchens with them from apartment to apartment?Everything not nailed down. Wait, strike that. They take everything even if its nailed down. Doesn't matter if its a custom cut kitchen counter and won't fit in their new home, they take it with them along with all the light fixtures. Never saw anything like it, all those bare 220 v wires sticking bare out of the walls. Another thing houses (at least those I stayed in) didn't have was closets in the rooms.

SwingerLover

01-22-16, 00:46

Is it customary for Germans to take their kitchens with them from apartment to apartment?It depends. If possible, then they are moved along with the other stuff. If it's a custom made built-in kitchen, then it's usually sold to the buyer as well.

As for pricing: It will be cheaper if there's some 'glitch' involved. For instance: People who like niosy places get very cheap real estate close to Frankfurt if it's in the entry lane / approach path of Frankfurt airport. And in some ghetto hoods (like Chorweiler in Cologne) you propably get money if you take the apartment.

Out in the boonies you can get entire houses for under 50000 €.

Member #4581

01-22-16, 01:14

Congrats to our German friends; and they got this ranking w / o the FKK clubs even being considered as a factor, LOL. These clubs should have been counted in the "quality of life" "cultural influence on the world" and a couple of other metrics!

http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-full-list

Mr Ho

01-22-16, 01:42

I have been "collecting" FKKs for about four or five years now. I decided to list and rank them to see if anyone wanted to note a club of particular importance that I am missing or debate my rankings.

Oase.

Sharks.

Artemis.

Globe.

Golden Time (Bruggen).

Goldentime (Vienna).

Living Room.

World.

Mainhatten.

Palace.

Samnya.

Bernds.Palace for me could be higher up for my personal reason as I managed to get good session after hardcore negotiation LOL Without hardcore negotiation, palace is like worst for service and price LOL It is not club for first timers or those who goes only by what girls demand.

Oase I never really got the feeling of the clubs. IF up stairs main bar is filled with more light I could see more LU, but on the other hand down stairs dining area has one of the best light to see girls properly. But hmmm I went with two girls, one was good service, and other was real bad, so I cannot say. LU is quite diversified though. Contrary to what people say, I actually like the food, pasta and non free pizza and coffees. However LU is still? To me.

Artemis. Most diversified club for LU, but lately I really begin to see decline in LU and LU getting more older with same faces mainly for years. I know few girls who have been there for now 5 years for sure or even more as maybe they have been there before my time.

Sharks. LU No stunner when I went, but now that I reflect back cutes new to the industry kinda LU. Went with three girls, service level was good and girls nicer in characters than other clubs I found. I need to try one more time to see more clearly on tendency of LU at sharks.

Globe. Good, but over hyped, service is good as they say.

I am kind of interested on Mainhattan, world and GT. How are the LU tendency there? But GT. Hmmm it is far for me to reach without car and I will not be driving in Germany.

Katinka

01-22-16, 15:31

But GT. Hmmm it is far for me to reach without car and I will not be driving in Germany.Here is how to get to GT for us non-drivers. You take a train from either Cologne or Dusseldorf to Kaldenkirchen. FromT there you take a taxi for about 30 Euros. There is actually a small bed and breakfast right around the corner from the train station that you can walk to.

Alternatively, you can stay in Venlo (across the boarder in the Netherlands) --same train. There is a hotel across from the train station. But the Netherlands cab rates are higher and it is about 50 Euros to go to GT, but since you get a German taxi on the way back, it is only about 35 Euros going back.

The train ride from Dusseldorf is about an hour to Kaldenkirchen. So all in all, you have to be somewhat determined. But when I started my collection I used a global Eurail pass and got pretty comfortable riding German trains.

One other thing that I did once was got off the train at the Boisheim station between Dusseldorf and Kaldenkirchen where there was a little hotel, Zum Schaenzchen, and I took a taxi from there. I rationalized that I was trying a small german town. I did have a nice conversation with the proprietor about his little business. About a 35 Euro taxi fare.

Mr Ho

01-22-16, 21:51

Here is how to get to GT for us non-drivers. You take a train from either Cologne or Dusseldorf to Kaldenkirchen. FromT there you take a taxi for about 30 Euros. There is actually a small bed and breakfast right around the corner from the train station that you can walk to.

Alternatively, you can stay in Venlo (across the boarder in the Netherlands) --same train. There is a hotel across from the train station. But the Netherlands cab rates are higher and it is about 50 Euros to go to GT, but since you get a German taxi on the way back, it is only about 35 Euros going back.

The train ride from Dusseldorf is about an hour to Kaldenkirchen. So all in all, you have to be somewhat determined. But when I started my collection I used a global Eurail pass and got pretty comfortable riding German trains.

One other thing that I did once was got off the train at the Boisheim station between Dusseldorf and Kaldenkirchen where there was a little hotel, Zum Schaenzchen, and I took a taxi from there. I rationalized that I was trying a small german town. I did have a nice conversation with the proprietor about his little business. About a 35 Euro taxi fare.Thanks man.

But this is the point, GT must be determined location, especially when you got limited dates. If LU is promising, I will walk across Sahara desert to get to such FKK LOL but I begin to realize FKK just has few genre of LU, so I am not sure if it is worth it and I may get similar LU at Oase or Sharks. And in Hessen, it is more easy to commute to one FKK to another by basing myself near Frankfurt HB hotel.

However, if I goto GT, I will stay at Düsseldorf, but unlike Frankfurt, there are no other good FKK near by no? Like in Frankfurt you got palace just 7 min train ride, not even, you got Sharks and Oase both close to station by taxi etc. You also got Manhattan that I have not been yet and also world is like bit further out, but still there no?

McAdonis

01-23-16, 01:57

Thanks man.

But this is the point, GT must be determined location, especially when you got limited dates. If LU is promising, I will walk across Sahara desert to get to such FKK LOL but I begin to realize FKK just has few genre of LU, so I am not sure if it is worth it and I may get similar LU at Oase or Sharks. And in Hessen, it is more easy to commute to one FKK to another by basing myself near Frankfurt HB hotel.

However, if I goto GT, I will stay at Dsseldorf, but unlike Frankfurt, there are no other good FKK near by no? Like in Frankfurt you got palace just 7 min train ride, not even, you got Sharks and Oase both close to station by taxi etc. You also got Manhattan that I have not been yet and also world is like bit further out, but still there no?

Given your preferences, I would recommend GT to you. GT has a higher percentage of German girls and non-Romanians than other clubs. This seems to be a high priority for you.

If you stay in Dusseldorf city center. Living Room and Dolce Vita are both easily reachable with metro. Normally I wouldn't recommend Dolce Vita because it tends to be sharky, but you like Artemis and Palace.

Mr Ho

01-23-16, 02:44

Given your preferences, I would recommend GT to you. GT has a higher percentage of German girls and non-Romanians than other clubs. This seems to be a high priority for you.

If you stay in Dusseldorf city center. Living Room and Dolce Vita are both easily reachable with metro. Normally I wouldn't recommend Dolce Vita because it tends to be sharky, but you like Artemis and Palace.Aha, sorry, I did not see the second paragraph.

Dolce Vita and Living Room, beside sharkyness, how are LU there, are there possibility of stunner? And LU rather young like early 20 to 25 ish?

Sharkiness, I can handle it, only time I failed for sharkiness was twice LOL Once in Oase. Lost 100 euro bad session, and also in Artemis once when I began FKK-ing.

So Düsseldorf can be good as Hessen if Living room and Dolce vita LU is as good as palace or Artemis.

PussyLiccker

01-23-16, 03:25

PussyLiccker

01-23-16, 19:37

Aha, sorry, I did not see the second paragraph.

Dolce Vita and Living Room, beside sharkyness, how are LU there, are there possibility of stunner? And LU rather young like early 20 to 25 ish?

Sharkiness, I can handle it, only time I failed for sharkiness was twice LOL Once in Oase. Lost 100 euro bad session, and also in Artemis once when I began FKK-ing.

So Dsseldorf can be good as Hessen if Living room and Dolce vita LU is as good as palace or Artemis.MrHo,

Stunners really rides on your taste. I don't think we all would agree who is a stunner.

My experiences on stunners is that that minor percentage will not be present in a single club. A club will not have so many stunners, but also stunners is just matter of perspective. A 8 to a somebody may not be a 10 to another.

You got to look deep to see what features of the girls are the most draw for you. You did say Germans, but I think it's has to due with particular features they have optically. Not all Germans are the same, and likely the ones with features you favor, you have spotted at Artemis from time to time.

Based on my experience, the stunners are rare, and they will pop up at various clubs. Back then, I didn't do so many club hopping until I ran into an odd stunner at the most unexpected clubs. I reasoned that if I hop so many clubs, that will increase my odds. Not like the increased odds are guaranteed, I know it's just luck at some random club looking back.

I've seen a Russian stunner long time ago at Artemis that sat at the most visible spot at the bar occupied by some man. She was an example of one full of her self IMO. But, depending on the environment, you'd find a stunner that will not be full of herself. I have run into them, just out of pure luck.

McA's idea of a stunner maybe big titties and whatever else, and mine would be something different. Yours probably have some particularities as well.

All in all, it's about what girls are around, doesn't have to be a stunner. I like a nice girl with a good attitude that will provide me honest good time that fit my taste. I'm happy.

So, my only advice would be venture out and see if you run into stunners.

To answer your questions,

DV is known to be on the general not good services. LR in the contrast, would be better in terms avg service gotten on random picks I'd imagine. But also, Duss clubs provide different experiences, and I think that's worthy enough to give it a go. NRW clubs vary, so that could make for interesting visits to various clubs in the region.

I came from doing days tours in Hessen to NRW, and something about NRW drew me ever since then.

All For Bb

01-23-16, 21:24

Mr Ho

01-23-16, 22:29

MrHo,

Stunners really rides on your taste. I don't think we all would agree who is a stunner.

My experiences on stunners is that that minor percentage will not be present in a single club. A club will not have so many stunners, but also stunners is just matter of perspective. A 8 to a somebody may not be a 10 to another.

You got to look deep to see what features of the girls are the most draw for you. You did say Germans, but I think it's has to due with particular features they have optically. Not all Germans are the same, and likely the ones with features you favor, you have spotted at Artemis from time to time.

Based on my experience, the stunners are rare, and they will pop up at various clubs. Back then, I didn't do so many club hopping until I ran into an odd stunner at the most unexpected clubs. I reasoned that if I hop so many clubs, that will increase my odds. Not like the increased odds are guaranteed, I know it's just luck at some random club looking back.

I've seen a Russian stunner long time ago at Artemis that sat at the most visible spot at the bar occupied by some man. She was an example of one full of her self IMO. But, depending on the environment, you'd find a stunner that will not be full of herself. I have run into them, just out of pure luck..Yes I agree with you that stunner just pop up or for me it is more like I keep my eyes at the door of main bar and stunner just suddenly walk in.

Most of time, I got stunner like model type escort service girl, it was just pure luck and sometime she is just there few night and gone (I used to do around 10 days or more consecutive Artemis).

You are right club hopping can increase the probability of meeting stunner, I also think this as club do not change LU every day, it change gradually on every few weeks as few girls leave, few new comes in.

I also realize summer LU is different as most girls go home, and new girls are working during summer, so you do not get usual LU which sometimes a chance for bumping into stunner.

In the end, it is pure luck and just got to keep the fingers cross.

Mr Ho

01-23-16, 22:34

I suggest, which I always did, rent a car, stay in Frankfurt area for 3 days and Dusseldorf area for another 3 days, and visit about 6-9 clubs and fuck about 20-30 pussies in 5-6 days. Rental may cause about 150 euro plus gas.
When you drive to Dusseldorf from Frankfurt (about 2.5 - 3 hours), you can stop by Symya, or ACA. In the area, you can visit GT, LR, PHG. I always fly to FRA Airport, rent car there, on last day, drive back from Duss directly to FRA airport.Thanks man, but I always like using train in Germany or if long distance just fly with air Berlin.

I am always after stunner or my taste girls at least and choosy, so I used to do 10 days, but now I just did 5 days tour last November, so then I did about 12 pussies or little more, but repeating on few girls and that was just in Artemis and globe.

Globe was bit disappointed as I had high expectation, it is good, but over hyped for LU.

As of this moment, I think I will like Hessen and Berlin mixed tour because both city is easy to move.

But I will give try to GT when I am in mood to try new club. I will stay at Venlo to chill in coffee shop legally as well behind dutch boarder LOL , so I do not know if herb and driving is good mix LOL.

PussyLiccker

01-24-16, 00:35

Yes I agree with you that stunner just pop up or for me it is more like I keep my eyes at the door of main bar and stunner just suddenly walk in.

Most of time, I got stunner like model type escort service girl, it was just pure luck and sometime she is just there few night and gone (I used to do around 10 days or more consecutive Artemis).

You are right club hopping can increase the probability of meeting stunner, I also think this as club do not change LU every day, it change gradually on every few weeks as few girls leave, few new comes in.

I also realize summer LU is different as most girls go home, and new girls are working during summer, so you do not get usual LU which sometimes a chance for bumping into stunner.

In the end, it is pure luck and just got to keep the fingers cross.I can't see any pattern as there arn't enough I've met to make a connection. One German I've met at LR in the summer 2012. One Romy I've met at DV in the fall 2013. One German at Oase in the fall 2012, worked months. One Hungarian happen to visit Oase in April, 2012 over the weekend. GT, Russian worked months.

Romy hotties: At Aca a hottie did a brief visit from GT vienna, and another works at a cheap Turkish clientele club in Cologne called Mondial. Few GT Romies I'd call hotties. Sharks, a hottie during holidays just showed up when most Romies takes off. There are others too.

For stunners, my experience has been that they show up for brief time if not few months worked. So generally, they don't stay long to a club. Another thing is that I take trips, I'm not a regular clubs to a specific club, so there are girls that show up to a club that could be a stunner when I'm not there. There are other girls really pretty I see on a visit, and that's it. So, I'm hopeful of this occurance to happen for my club visits. LOL.

Mr Ho

01-24-16, 00:45

I can't see any pattern as there arn't enough I've met to make a connection. One German I've met at LR in the summer. One Romy I've met at DV in the fall. One German at Oase in the fall 2012, worked months. One Hungarian happen to visit Oase in April, 2012 over the weekend. GT, Russian worked months.

Romy hotties: At Aca a hottie did a brief visit from GT vienna, and another works at a cheap Turkish clientele club in Cologne called Mondial. Few GT Romies I'd call hotties. Sharks, a hot hot hottie during holidays just showed up when most Romies takes off. There are others too.

For stunners, my experience has been that they show up for brief time if not few months worked. Another thing is that I take trips, I'm not a regular clubs to a specific club, so there are girls that show up to a club that could be a stunner when I'm not there. There are other girls really pretty I see on a visit, and that's it. So, I'm hopeful of this occurance to happen for club visits.Well only pattern I see is that they just pop up as you say and most of times, types that I like are tend to be not regular LU and they claim they also work in escort and even gives me their agency that they usually works for their name there.

So my guess is that, they do work in escort and during low season of their scene, they come to FKK to upsell, but still offer themselves for little cheaper rates. It is all depend, but a lot of stunner I was fortunate enough to run into was like you said, they know their worth (not all, some are new girls and got top service for just 30 min session no upsell standard rates), and will upsell, then I managed to decrease the upsell down to reasonable rate like I just go longer session with some options like CIM or anal etc and negotiate two pops for longer session etc etc.

I conclude it makes sense to change clubs, but maybe give two different night each different clubs you hit may increase the rate. I am always stuck to few location where I can see the changing room or where the main bar door is, so I know which girls just walked in, I also try to find a place where I can see them in good light, but that is only possible in few clubs. In sharks. Unless it is summer, you only got that couch by safety box where it is right next to door to girls changing room and light is like other FKK club, but it is too dim for me; but I manage with monger night scope and stalker LOL.