View Full Version : German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area
do members have any ideas as to where I could do the final day hence adding a bit more of a mix to the trip. Many thanksIs it variety or a good time you seek?
As an infrequent visitor (5x in 4 yrs) I'd like to comment.
My last visit ran from a Monday through to the Wednesday of the following week. So I had a chance to observe Oase, Palace & Mainhatten on two Monday-Tuesday periods. In both cases these were the slowest days for the clubs. (Slow=fewest mongers, smaller, in some cases testy line-ups)
So you may pick a 'new' club for variety, only to see it on a 'slow' day, or maybe not.
I would suggest variety earlier, (World?), & return to your favourite, (club or girl (s) in that club) for your farewell.
Just a thought: reward yourself, the girl & the club with one more visit.
Myr.
I am planning 6 nites in frankfurt in September with 4 full fkk days. I've got oase lined up for wed / fri / sat and that is 100 percent set. The problem I am finding being limited to frankfurt area is how to add a bit of variation for the last day. Mainhatten, over commercialised palace etc just don't seem to offer the same "comforts" as oase whilst at the same time it would be nice to add some variation by mixing in another frankfurt club. What do members think; should I do the final day which would be a mon / tue at oase making it 4 days there or do members have any ideas as to where I could do the final day hence adding a bit more of a mix to the trip. Many thanksI would say: try Sharks or World. Especially if the wheather is good. If you like the new Oase set up (with a big useless field of grass) , you'll love World. If you 'miss' the thought out functional set up, you'll be impressed by Sharks. In general Sharks is a nice looking club, with a far better bbq than the Oase and World. Only thing is that it can get very hot, so if the temperature is 30+, you might be better of in World where they can open the big doors. I'm not too sure about the size of the World line up on weekdays, but Sharks was of good quality (last Thursday). Probably half as many girls as Oase, but less outliers age and weight wise. In short I found just as many 'doable' girls in the 45 at Sharks, as in the 90+ in Oase. Of the big Hessen clubs, the girls in Sharks are by far the best temptresses. Far nicer in trying to get your ziimertime than the girls in Oase and World.
Mohab,
Do World. Best place to relax and the lineup was very good on Sunday 8 July. Of the 4 clubs I visited this weekend (Paradise. Friday; Palace. Saturday; Sharks. Saturday and World Sunday. World by far had the best lineup of 4 clubs. And that was on a Sunday.
Check out the 2 new Hungarian babes. 10/10 from me!
I am planning 6 nites in frankfurt in September with 4 full fkk days. I've got oase lined up for wed / fri / sat and that is 100 percent set. The problem I am finding being limited to frankfurt area is how to add a bit of variation for the last day. Mainhatten, over commercialised palace etc just don't seem to offer the same "comforts" as oase whilst at the same time it would be nice to add some variation by mixing in another frankfurt club. What do members think; should I do the final day which would be a mon / tue at oase making it 4 days there or do members have any ideas as to where I could do the final day hence adding a bit more of a mix to the trip. Many thanks
Always a pleasure to help. If you folks do get the chance to frequent Zurich, feel free to pop into Aphrodisia for copious amount of free cognac or sparkling water at NO cost. Enry free and youj're no obliged to go into a room. I always turn up and jokingly tell the barmaid I am here for the free booze. But after several glass of cognac. Things happen. Imagine picking the top 5 babes from all the NRW and Hessen clubs. And the equivalent can all be found in this cosy bar. But it's €400 for the hour.
Simex, nice summary of Zurich. This is better than any post on the Zurich forum. That forum is anemic. May be because those rich bankers don't have time to feed information to us wankers.
Angus Magee
07-10-12, 16:28
I came across this article today, in German.
http://www.volksstimme.de/nachrichten/sachsen_anhalt/871155_Schloss-Schoenfeld-wird-zum-Bordell-mit-FKK-und-Saunaklub.html
In fact having read it twice in German and once with google translator I am still not 100% sure of what it says. Either a new club is opening in September or it already opened and there is some local opposition to it?
Maybe a native German speaker can give us a short synopsis?
Thanks in advance.
AM
In fact having read it twice in German and once with google translator I am still not 100% sure of what it says. Either a new club is opening in September or it already opened and there is some local opposition to it?
Maybe a native German speaker can give us a short synopsis?
Thanks in advance.
AMBy all means a nativ Deutsch-spracher should indeed give his synopsis. But as to the first part of your question, in the first paragraph of your linked artikell, it clearly states this former "Schloss" or Castle / Imposing Building will become a Sauna Club and it is planned to open in September.
This much is clear, at lest from my reading of the first paragraph.
The picture of the Castle looks impression. Alot of potential, reminds me of VV building, but this one 4 times the size.
By all means a nativ Deutsch-spracher should indeed give his synopsis. But as to the first part of your question, in the first paragraph of your linked artikell, it clearly states this former "Schloss" or Castle / Imposing Building will become a Sauna Club and it is planned to open in September.
This much is clear, at lest from my reading of the first paragraph.
Brazil Specialist
07-11-12, 23:21
The castle Schönefeld will become a brothel with FKK sauna club.
After changing ownership, opening is planned for September.
It was empty for 5 years, till finally sold.
The prior owner thought it was meant to be a hotel and restaurant. He was not told it was meant to be FKK.
It will be the buyer's third Sauna Club. He admitted he did not tell the seller.
The club will not disturb the 85 inhabitants of the village. People want to have fun INSIDE. And customers come from a circle of 200 km (120 mi)
And, he stresses, we do nothing illegal, verboten.
15 luxurious rooms, discrete parking, Restaurant with national and international cuisine.
Right now there are doing renovations, and he needs 10-15 personnel.
Only for males or couples.
And the new owner will allow public usage of the castle's park, which was blocked by the prior tenant. Only trouble: internet reception is lousy
Googled the name and it 'looks' like the new club is located at Straße der Jugend 1, 01561 Schönfeld, Germany in the small village of freitelsdorf. Problem is the photo's on google that show the schloss schonfeld don't match up with the photo in the news article.
Googled the name and it 'looks' like the new club is located at Straße der Jugend 1, 01561 Schönfeld, Germany in the small village of freitelsdorf. Problem is the photo's on google that show the schloss schonfeld don't match up with the photo in the news article.It's this place.
http://www.altmarktourismus.de/kulturmark/schloesser/details.php?id=1
I am currently flying by the seat of my pants thru Eastern Europe towards Germany.
Are reservations required at any of these clubs or is just "show up and have fun"?
Looks like I will be hitting World based on recent recommendations. Is the accommodation option there a good idea or is it best to stay in frankfurt and travel by Taxi?
I will not have a car, and my German is limited to nil (French and English fluent) so loal public transport may be an effort mitigated by a taxi. Or just rent a car?
Thanks,
Fox
I am currently flying by the seat of my pants thru Eastern Europe towards Germany.
Are reservations required at any of these clubs or is just "show up and have fun"?
Looks like I will be hitting World based on recent recommendations. Is the accommodation option there a good idea or is it best to stay in frankfurt and travel by Taxi?
I will not have a car, and my German is limited to nil (French and English fluent) so loal public transport may be an effort mitigated by a taxi. Or just rent a car?
Thanks,
Fox
Angus Magee
07-12-12, 13:15
Yes that does look like the place. Here is a short wiki article about the place (in German). Seems it has a little history.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schloss_Sch%C3%B6nfeld_%28Altmark%29
Thanks Brazil for the synopsis. More or less what I understood but I was not sure.
Myself I have to wonder about the wisdom of this place. Looks nice enough but the location is pretty much in the middle of a fairly depressed area as far as I know. Close to Dresden but 180km from Berlin, a little far for an evenings play. Also I can imagine heating such a place, unless massive renovations were don to insulate, would be high, especially when you have to keep naked girls warm.
But never the less it does look interesting.
AM
Myself I have to wonder about the wisdom of this place. Looks nice enough but the location is pretty much in the middle of a fairly depressed area as far as I know. Close to Dresden but 180km from Berlin, a little far for an evenings play. Also I can imagine heating such a place, unless massive renovations were don to insulate, would be high, especially when you have to keep naked girls warm.
But never the less it does look interesting.
AMThe location and the size of the building remind me of two clubs to the south. Harem and Park S Doli. And you don't hear much about these two clubs.
Brazil Specialist
07-13-12, 13:26
Looks like I will be hitting World based on recent recommendations. Is the accommodation option there a good idea or is it best to stay in frankfurt and travel by Taxi?
I will not have a car, and my German is limited to nil (French and English fluent) so loal public transport may be an effort mitigated by a taxi. Or just rent a car?
Thanks,
FoxBahn. De has an English version.
http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml
You put in any address anywhere in Europe and it tells you exactly how to get there by public transport. With timetable. Including how to walk the last stretch. Amazing. Got me everywhere. They do have apps for android and most likely iphone
I was at World on Sunday to recover from the mammoth marathon Fri / Sat sessions in Paradise / Sharks / Palace the weekend just gone.
To recover, my strategy was to keep away from the busy Oase lineup and hit World facilties to chill out on a quiet Sunday, but the lineup
in the evening made World beat the 3 Fkk's above.
There were 2 beautiful Hungarian Hotties busy all night, one was an 8 and her friend was a 10/10 in my books.
The 10/10 was busy all fu#king night, so I went with her friend instead. Great session, but I was sexually and physically exhausted.
I am currently flying by the seat of my pants thru Eastern Europe towards Germany.
Are reservations required at any of these clubs or is just "show up and have fun"?
Looks like I will be hitting World based on recent recommendations. Is the accommodation option there a good idea or is it best to stay in frankfurt and travel by Taxi?
I will not have a car, and my German is limited to nil (French and English fluent) so loal public transport may be an effort mitigated by a taxi. Or just rent a car?
Thanks,
Fox
Member #4243
07-14-12, 18:57
Stay in a cheap hotel in central frankfurt. There is nothing to do near world in the town of giessen. You can take a train from frankfurt to giessen for 40mins. From giessen train station to fkk world 20euro in taxi. Exactly same for the way back and you can stay in world till 4/5am in the morning and catch the first trains back from giessen to frankfurt. Just look at dbahn. Type it into google click on the english version and type in frankfurt to giessen.
Enjoy,
Mohab
Member #4243
07-14-12, 19:50
I have noticed a trend which ok to a point is quite amusing with regards to our rumanian starlet beauties which dominate our clubs. Of course this is due to a natural flow of economics ie little job prospects / money leading to increased earnings found in the richer western european countries. Please do not take this post in the wrong way by any means but it MIGHT interest some readers to do a wikipedia search on rumania and to learn about the great cities for eg constanta on the black sea coast / the culture history etc. At the very least I feel this can only lead to a greater understanding of these lovely girls who for some strange reason keep on denying they are from rumania? Very strange. I would even go as far to say that your private room time will be improved by possessing at least a basic knowledge of the in's and out's of this amazing country steeped in history / you would at least on some level then be able to "relate" to the girls more and even understand where they are coming from. Call me melodramatic if you want but if the clubs are 70% rumanian inhabited whenever I have talked about rumania to the girls mentioning the different cities / geographical locations etc I have found a marked response from the girls even one of surprise and the conversation can go from mechanical zimmerbaby to a far more interesting interaction which can only increase the likelyhood of a better session. It sounds crazy but as this is a forum where members are allowed to freely express myself I have just done that exactly!
Thanks,
Mohab
Brothel visitors drugged and robbed.
http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120713-43745.html
I think it's purpose is to give the opportunity to chat a bit without worrying too much about going off topic and with less stricter rules in general. At least this is my interpretation.
KiminoYou're probably right, Kimono.
Mind you, if 'General Info' was a little more relaxed, there probably wouldn't even be a need for L&C...
I am not talking now about facilities, food, atmosphere, etc. After my long 11-days venue with 2-day break in between and counting my multiple previous trips I ranked clubs by the quality of the room service provided by the girls. I found that this ranking is different than my ranking of the clubs in general.
So:
1. Acapulco (no competition)
2. Samya (way above than #3)
3. Villa Vertigo (from here and below the difference is not significant)
4. Golden Time, Vienna.
5. World.
6. Golden Time, Bruggen.
7. Mainhatten.
8. Sharks.
9. Harem, Padedorn.
10. Planet Edem, Duren.
11. Das 5 Element.
12. PSR, Lohnmar.
13. Pirates bay.
14. Magnum (disaster)
Not included in the list some significant clubs: Oase, Palace, Bernds, Living Room, where I haven't been a while. I newer visit large clubs that are not listed here. I did not mention smaller clubs like Night and Day, First, Royal, etc because hard to remember what happened there during my single visits. I newer repeat them.
It looks like by quality of the service NRW beats Hessen and BWT. And this is for less money.
I understand that service level is not about the club but about individual girl. My ranking is based just on statistic. Your ranking is different? Please share.
Member #2453
07-17-12, 14:30
I am not talking now about facilities, food, atmosphere, etc. After my long 11-days venue with 2-day break in between and counting my multiple previous trips I ranked clubs by the quality of the room service provided by the girls. I found that this ranking is different than my ranking of the clubs in general.
So:
1. Acapulco (no competition)
2. Samya (way above than #3)
That's a great list you have put out, my experience has been limited to 3 FKKs so far, as I'm a great fan of action in the KINO, I would rank the following considering the comfort of having action in the kino.
1. Mainhatten.
2. The Palace.
3. Samya (almost non-existent, only sofas in the Kino)
I am not talking now about facilities, food, atmosphere, etc. After my long 11-days venue with 2-day break in between and counting my multiple previous trips I ranked clubs by the quality of the room service provided by the girls. I found that this ranking is different than my ranking of the clubs in general.
So:
1. Acapulco (no competition)
2. Samya (way above than #3)
3. Villa Vertigo (from here and below the difference is not significant)
4. Golden Time, Vienna.
5. World.
6. Golden Time, Bruggen.
7. Mainhatten.
8. Sharks.
9. Harem, Padedorn.
10. Planet Edem, Duren.
11. Das 5 Element.
12. PSR, Lohnmar.
13. Pirates bay.
14. Magnum (disaster)
Not included in the list some significant clubs: Oase, Palace, Bernds, Living Room, where I haven't been a while. I newer visit large clubs that are not listed here. I did not mention smaller clubs like Night and Day, First, Royal, etc because hard to remember what happened there during my single visits. I newer repeat them.
It looks like by quality of the service NRW beats Hessen and BWT. And this is for less money.
I understand that service level is not about the club but about individual girl. My ranking is based just on statistic. Your ranking is different? Please share.I would put Bernds at the top in terms of consistency of quality of service by the girls in (and out.) of the room.
Only one point of disagreement wih your otherwise very useful post: I think tha some clubs are making efforts to standardise the qualiy of service. Again, Bernds is an example.
As opposed to big clubs like Oase or Palalce, Bernds has to make sure that they have an edge, since the number of the girls is lower, and the optifuck level far less. AT Bernds, I have always got with any girl BBBJ, DFK, DATY, CIM or COB for the standard price of 50. Only supplement is Anal.
1. Acapulco (no competition) = Agree, Room 5 about 30 sq meters covered in mirrors from ceiling to walls. Reminds of the porn scence in American Psycho
2. Samya (way above than #3)
3. Villa Vertigo (from here and below the difference is not significant)
4. Golden Time, Vienna. Jacuzzi Rooms are v good.
5. World.
6. Golden Time, Bruggen. Cabin 15, outside is their best room.
I am not talking now about facilities, food, atmosphere, etc. After my long 11-days venue with 2-day break in between and counting my multiple previous trips I ranked clubs by the quality of the room service provided by the girls. I found that this ranking is different than my ranking of the clubs in general.
So:
1. Acapulco (no competition)
2. Samya (way above than #3)
3. Villa Vertigo (from here and below the difference is not significant)
4. Golden Time, Vienna.
5. World.
6. Golden Time, Bruggen.
Well putting Aca on top, pretty much disqualifies the rest. Top clubs (what service is concerned) will always be among Freude, Bernds and Babylon (maybe some other smaller clubs). For the rest it may depend on the girls you pick, but Aca. Kissing is for love. Pulco, will not rank that high. In PHG, LR, GT, Samya, World, Sharks, Oase, etc it all depends on the girls you find. But Aca is more and more like the Penelope's and Salome's of the saunaclub world. YMMV of course.
This conversation seems to have arisen in both the Palace and Oase threads.
I've seen girls charging Italians, Chinese, Americans etc. 500€/1h no extras, telling me, pointing out these guys and laughing their ass off. Then I took them for the room for standard rates and excellent service. If you support this. Your money. It's you the girls are laughing about.I don't have your experience clubbing or your perspective. However, this case would certainly be the fools getting ripped off. I do believe there is a difference between fools wasting money and travellers compromising with what seems to be the way of the world, at least at Palace.
While personally I prefer to pay the standard rates, on my last trip to the Palace I met a guy who willingly pays triple the rate, and the girls were certainly not laughing at him, though he was also a regular. Also, the line 'It's you the girls are laughing about' may overestimate the extent to which the girls have an objective, stable opinion at all. Also, we should not in general be so affected by what the girls think, let their supposed stable opinions (for really, what she says will differ from monger to monger, and there is no truth behind all the lies) have any effect on our self-perception. I only care what a handful of girls think of me, the rest it's just not worth it.
It seems an obvious thing that people can pay what they want; but all this willingness to overpay does screw things up for other mongers. Especially tourists (I'm quite sure London Traveler doesn't fir this description BTW) that first ask a whole lot of questions on this board, and than bust their bankroll in a single weekend, are in essence punishing the regulars that were so kind to provide info (the Hessen Bubs of ISG). Palace is already out of the question for me and if my last visits are anything to go by, Oase is quickly following. If you think the marketprice of sex is higher than 50, that might only be the case in the 'distorted' market of Frankfurt, in NRW it is clearly lower than 50 (cheaper longer sessions, Acapulco).I see what you're saying. My only suggestion though is that it is not just the tourists who inflate the prices, but the girls themselves. They are wh0res after all. They are fundamentally our enemies, though they may become our friends to oppose us.
What I'm saying is obvious, of course. But given that you're upset about the situation, shouldn't the old-fashioned method of blaming the women also be considered?
Otherwise, I concede you have much more data on the matter than I do.
Smoky Jack
07-19-12, 00:08
I have noticed a trend which ok to a point is quite amusing with regards to our rumanian starlet beauties which dominate our clubs. Of course this is due to a natural flow of economics ie little job prospects / money leading to increased earnings found in the richer western european countries. Please do not take this post in the wrong way by any means but it MIGHT interest some readers to do a wikipedia search on rumania and to learn about the great cities for eg constanta on the black sea coast / the culture history etc. At the very least I feel this can only lead to a greater understanding of these lovely girls who for some strange reason keep on denying they are from rumania? Very strange. I would even go as far to say that your private room time will be improved by possessing at least a basic knowledge of the in's and out's of this amazing country steeped in history / you would at least on some level then be able to "relate" to the girls more and even understand where they are coming from. Call me melodramatic if you want but if the clubs are 70% rumanian inhabited whenever I have talked about rumania to the girls mentioning the different cities / geographical locations etc I have found a marked response from the girls even one of surprise and the conversation can go from mechanical zimmerbaby to a far more interesting interaction which can only increase the likelyhood of a better session. It sounds crazy but as this is a forum where members are allowed to freely express myself I have just done that exactly!
Thanks,
MohabMohab, excellent advice. I will make it a point to learn something about Romania, and even some Romanian phrases. Maybe something about Hungary too! No doubt that when there is a bit of a personal connection, things get hotter. Everyone wants to be treated with respect, even pros.
Delta Indigo
07-19-12, 00:29
Whoever pays 500 Euros is really silly, no matter how rich they are.
I have only been to one FKK ever, Goldentime in Vienna. I have been to a lot of brothels in Prague etc though. I am always aware of the price and would never pay over the standard rate unless I have negotiated some serious extras, and even then not much more.
I love OWO, but I never pay for it. In fact some girls rim me in Goldentime and I never pay for that as well.
Did you really see someone do that? Even if they are dead drunk, they are completely stupid then. I thought in all these places the standard price was well known.
I will be in Frankfurt for a short period in September, and it so happens that one of my available days will be Saturday. 15 September, the last evening of the large Automechanika messe. Having read past reports, I am familiar with some of the trade-offs involved with going to Oase, Palace, Mainhattan, or World during that particular messe.
From what I have read, Oase, Mainhattan, and Palace will all likely be packed with girls before 10 pm, so any would be good choices for going early. World may be a little depleted with girls heading to other clubs closer to the city (the above, plus Sharks) to get in on the messe action. But later in the evening, Oase, Mainhattan, and Palace will likely be flooded with men. Based on what I have read, this sounds pretty awful: some men walking around fully clothed, girls in full-on processor mode, overcrowded public areas, etc. Some of these clubs may be better at dealing with the influx of men (sounds like Mainhattan may be better than Oase in this regard?).
My question is this: If you had to choose a club in which to spend that evening, which would you choose and why? I would be particularly grateful to hear from local or senior members or others who have experience visiting clubs during this particular messe. I wasn't planning to rent a car, but if people strongly suggest that World is the way to go, I would consider trying to get access to one.
Thanks
Thanks a ton Rocketboy and LJ for those detailed insight. As always, experts tend to have different opinions on a given topic and its is ultimately left to the reader to analyze those opinions and make an informed decision. I guess I`ll just wait for LJ to report on his experience in Zurich and Berlin after that if I am still in a dilemma over which city to monger along with Berlin, I guess I`ll toss a coin to decide. BTW, you guys mention some girls will be away for summer vacation and that might put a drain on the talent available anywhere in Europe, so I was wondering when dose this summer vacation end. Reason I ask this is because I am to an extend flexible with my flight schedule and maybe I can decide when I want to visit EU. Well given this will be my 1st Mongering trip, I do not mind splurging for GFE with some fine hotties.
AlexDear Alex, I was forced to reschedule my plans for a mongering trip this weekend due to medical procedure of a family member, so my Zurich / Berlin mongering trip will not take place this weekend as planned. My trip to Europe has been rescheduled to the end of August for the first weekend in September (a long holiday weekend in the USA). On the new plan, I will be in Zurich on August 30 and will report about it then, so if you were waiting to hear about my observations in FKK Globe and the Zurich scene before deciding which city to visit after your Berlin visit, my report on Globe will be delayed by several weeks. I also decided to take my own advice to you and to head to the FKK's in the Frankfurt area for that weekend instead of Berlin. Artemis is still on my to do list, but will have await a trip later this year, possibly in October.
Hope your trip works out well. I'm sure you will have great fun and an interesting time whichever of the cities under discussion you choose to monger in on the return from your Berlin visit.
LJ
My question is this: If you had to choose a club in which to spend that evening, which would you choose and why? I would be particularly grateful to hear from local or senior members or others who have experience visiting clubs during this particular messe. I wasn't planning to rent a car, but if people strongly suggest that World is the way to go, I would consider trying to get access to one.I am going to be attending the messe and will choose to go to World Sep 15. Simple because I don't want to risk a sausageparty. I have no previous experience with being in FRA during messe, but maybe the regulars would share their experience. Would be nice to know!
I am going to be attending the messe and will choose to go to World Sep 15. Simple because I don't want to risk a sausageparty. I have no previous experience with being in FRA during messe, but maybe the regulars would share their experience. Would be nice to know!This is exactly the same reason why I newer attend Hannover clubs during the messe. I would rather drive to Padedorn (FKK Harem) to avoid any chance to meet someone who might know my face, which is pretty known in the industry.
Dear Alex, I was forced to reschedule my plans for a mongering trip this weekend due to medical procedure of a family member, so my Zurich / Berlin mongering trip will not take place this weekend as planned. My trip to Europe has been rescheduled to the end of August for the first weekend in September (a long holiday weekend in the USA).
LJHey JL,
Ah man! I thought you will be reporting on Globe today. Jokes apart, sorry to hear about the medical procedure of your family member and appreciate you giving me a heads up about the change in your plans. Well even my trip got delayed and now I will be hopefully heading there during mid Sept. I kinda solved my 2nd city to monger dilemma by deciding upon going to Manchester to catch a game after hopefully fun time in Berlin. Going by the Manchester thread, it looks like it is not such a promising place for mongering, so my mongering adventure will be limited to Berlin. Next time, I`ll try to stop by Frankfurt along with either Zurich or Vienna next time.
Good for you that you choose the tried and tested path of FKK`s at Frankfurt. I live in the states as well so I know about the 1st weekend of spet. Anyway, have a blast at FKKs of Frankfurt and Globe a tZurich and once again thanks for the great suggestions on everything.
Alex
Banana Boi
07-20-12, 19:09
How does Oktoberfest affect the fkk's in FRA and NRW (ie. Lots more guys? Drunk guys? More or less girls?)
Hessen Bub
07-20-12, 20:56
Oktoberfest does not affect clubs in Hessen or Frankfurt.
Big Messe events in Frankfurt do effect mainly Palace and Oase, to some extent Mainhattan, Sharks only a little and World not at all.
HB
Any reason why I can't find any info on Das Sudfass in Frankfurt?
http://www.dassudfass.de/site/index.php
Ta!
Smoky Jack
07-20-12, 22:54
I've done it several times, you never know just how determined the girl is with getting that 50 euro's. One time I had the girl sitting on my lap at Oase on one of those couch's by the rooms, waiting for one to open. It took 15 minutes for one to free up, massaging her back (not groping). Things looked good until we get in the room and the first thing out of her mouth is 'I can only do BJ, your too big for me'. At which point I said "ok, forget about it then". She then demanded 50 euro's for having to wait for the room. Told her that wasn't going to happen and kept on walking. You don't know if she's going to follow you and make a scene, just start walking.
Another trick is the girl starts with 69 so she can slip a condom on for the BJ. She knows guys are apt to quit the session if she insists on a CBJ. Had this happen on my last trip, she's already sucking away so its too late to duck out of the room. So did the only other thing possible, fucked her hard for the rest of the session. She kept on saying 'you cum yet? ' which I'd reply "I always cum fast with a BBBJ but since you don't do that, we'll have to finish this way' and I'd keep on pounding away. After a weeks worth of BBBJ's, you don't feel shit with a CBJ.
And don't forget the end of the hour trick of trying to trick you into staying past the half hour. This is where the girl will ask if its ok to smoke afterwards, lights up and tries to start a conversation. The conversation is usually forced, you can tell the questions she's asking are a delay tactic to get you to forget about the time. She wants to show up to the money lockers at the 40 minute mark and tell you its 100 euro's, not 50. Yeah, you have to wait for the girl to get dressed, clean up the mess and all. Anything longer than 3 minutes and you have to wonder if she's trying for the extra 50. Only once did I actually leave the room and head back to the lockers, I wanted to be at the bar waiting so she couldn't say I overstayed in the room. Amazing how fast she got dressed after I said I'll meet you at the bar.Excellent advice about the smoking bit. I got burned by that at Oase. A 50E cigarette, no thanks! Keep your eye on your watch unless you are planning a true GFE session for hours.
Any reason why I can't find any info on Das Sudfass in Frankfurt?
http://www.dassudfass.de/site/index.php
Ta!Don't know why. Here's my review from a couple of years ago:
http://www.InternationalSexGuide.info/forum/showthread.php?1100-Other-FKK-Clubs&p=1025677#post1025677
Myr.
Don't know why. Here's my review from a couple of years ago:
http://www.InternationalSexGuide.info/forum/showthread.php?1100-Other-FKK-Clubs&p=1025677#post1025677
Myr.Thanks for that Myrmidon.
Seems like a quite place 2 yrs ago. More local clientele perhaps.
Wonder what the opening of Mainhatten just a short distance away has lowered or made better the line up?
Did the "Search" option before but nothing came up.
May be worth a look.
Oktoberfest does not affect clubs in Hessen or Frankfurt.
Big Messe events in Frankfurt do effect mainly Palace and Oase, to some extent Mainhattan, Sharks only a little and World not at all.
HBHow come Mainhattan is less affected than Oase? My guess would be that most messe-guys would go to the more central clubs like Palace, Mainhattan, hell even Sudfass and to some extent Oase? Wouldn't Oase be too far away for these 'tourists'?
Catmouse123
07-22-12, 01:30
You europeans are so lucky that you have FKK. As an American, it would be impossible to find some naked, smoking hot, young chick come up to you and say,"Do you want to fuck me?" And you could proceed to do it legally with total anonymity. It just simply would never happen.
And not only that, but then you proceed to turn her down! You reject her because even though she's hot, you look for somebody hotter. It's just crazy!
It's just an amazing experience. Plus. 50 euro for 1/2 hour is a total bargain. In the USA, it's about $20 USD for a 2 minute lap-dance. The lap dance is just a tease, also. Usually, people get 3 songs for $60 USD. 6 minutes. That's it. Then you still got to go home or your hotel and jack off to internet porn. So 50 euro for 30 minutes is an amazing bargain!
In America, people like Hugh Grant get arrested, shamed, and ruined by doing what German businessmen can do during their lunch hour and go back to work. Plus, in the USA, very few of the prostitutes are white, and if they are, they're usually obese, disgusting drug addicts. Most are usually large butt black skanks (nothing wrong with black women, but if you like white women, it is more difficult) who have multiple diseases. In the FKK, you have smooth-skinned, cute ass and small waist college-girl types who don't have needle track marks. Also, at oase, very few have tattoos, so they have beautiful, young, smooth skin. In the USA, if the white girl is skinny, it's because they're addicted to drugs and they're emaciated nasty skinny.
So if you're european, it's easy for you to just drive for a great time. We Americans have to take a flight, cross multiple time zones, and spend lots of money. But it's worth it. So if you're American and you've never been to an FKK, I would encourage you to spend the money and do it. You will never go back to a strip club in the United States again because it's just like throwing money into the water. Imagine walking into a strip club in the USA, and you see some smoking hot stripper and you want her. Then 5 minutes later, you're banging her doggie style or she's giving you a phenomenal blow job. It's just truly an incredible experience. You Europeans (especially the Germans) are so lucky!
Brazil Specialist
07-22-12, 02:59
Any reason why I can't find any info on Das Sudfass in Frankfurt?
http://www.dassudfass.de/site/index.php
Ta!Check in the same thread "Brazil Specialist's German FKK tour", I reported on Sudfass. Not the first choice, but if you have plenty of time, or if you have little time and are right downtown, there is Sudfass (ok, a good curiousity for being the oldest FKK) plus a Laufhaus (Eros Center) next door, with amazing girls.
Smoky Jack
07-22-12, 05:33
You europeans are so lucky that you have FKK. As an American, it would be impossible to find some naked, smoking hot, young chick come up to you and say,"Do you want to fuck me?" And you could proceed to do it legally with total anonymity. It just simply would never happen.
And not only that, but then you proceed to turn her down! You reject her because even though she's hot, you look for somebody hotter. It's just crazy!
It's just an amazing experience. Plus. 50 euro for 1/2 hour is a total bargain. In the USA, it's about $20 USD for a 2 minute lap-dance. The lap dance is just a tease, also. Usually, people get 3 songs for $60 USD. 6 minutes. That's it. Then you still got to go home or your hotel and jack off to internet porn. So 50 euro for 30 minutes is an amazing bargain!
In America, people like Hugh Grant get arrested, shamed, and ruined by doing what German businessmen can do during their lunch hour and go back to work. Plus, in the USA, very few of the prostitutes are white, and if they are, they're usually obese, disgusting drug addicts. Most are usually large butt black skanks (nothing wrong with black women, but if you like white women, it is more difficult) who have multiple diseases. In the FKK, you have smooth-skinned, cute ass and small waist college-girl types who don't have needle track marks. Also, at oase, very few have tattoos, so they have beautiful, young, smooth skin. In the USA, if the white girl is skinny, it's because they're addicted to drugs and they're emaciated nasty skinny.
So if you're european, it's easy for you to just drive for a great time. We Americans have to take a flight, cross multiple time zones, and spend lots of money. But it's worth it. So if you're American and you've never been to an FKK, I would encourage you to spend the money and do it. You will never go back to a strip club in the United States again because it's just like throwing money into the water. Imagine walking into a strip club in the USA, and you see some smoking hot stripper and you want her. Then 5 minutes later, you're banging her doggie style or she's giving you a phenomenal blow job. It's just truly an incredible experience. You Europeans (especially the Germans) are so lucky!Well said. I agree completely. That's why I laugh when people ***** about me giving 150E for a GFE+ session. 1 hour with one of the hottest girls I have ever seen. It is a ridiculous bargain.
You europeans are so lucky that you have FKK. As an American, it would be impossible to find some naked, smoking hot, young chick come up to you and say,"Do you want to fuck me?" And you could proceed to do it legally with total anonymity. It just simply would never happen.
And not only that, but then you proceed to turn her down! You reject her because even though she's hot, you look for somebody hotter. It's just crazy!
It's just an amazing experience. Plus. 50 euro for 1/2 hour is a total bargain. In the USA, it's about $20 USD for a 2 minute lap-dance. The lap dance is just a tease, also. Usually, people get 3 songs for $60 USD. 6 minutes. That's it. Then you still got to go home or your hotel and jack off to internet porn. So 50 euro for 30 minutes is an amazing bargain!
In America, people like Hugh Grant get arrested, shamed, and ruined by doing what German businessmen can do during their lunch hour and go back to work. Plus, in the USA, very few of the prostitutes are white, and if they are, they're usually obese, disgusting drug addicts. Most are usually large butt black skanks (nothing wrong with black women, but if you like white women, it is more difficult) who have multiple diseases. In the FKK, you have smooth-skinned, cute ass and small waist college-girl types who don't have needle track marks. Also, at oase, very few have tattoos, so they have beautiful, young, smooth skin. In the USA, if the white girl is skinny, it's because they're addicted to drugs and they're emaciated nasty skinny.
So if you're european, it's easy for you to just drive for a great time. We Americans have to take a flight, cross multiple time zones, and spend lots of money. But it's worth it. So if you're American and you've never been to an FKK, I would encourage you to spend the money and do it. You will never go back to a strip club in the United States again because it's just like throwing money into the water. Imagine walking into a strip club in the USA, and you see some smoking hot stripper and you want her. Then 5 minutes later, you're banging her doggie style or she's giving you a phenomenal blow job. It's just truly an incredible experience. You Europeans (especially the Germans) are so lucky!Very well said.
[QUOTE=Catmouse123; 1306701].
So if you're American and you've never been to an FKK, I would encourage you to spend the money and do it. You will never go back to a strip club in the United States again because it's just like throwing money into the water. Imagine walking into a strip club in the USA, and you see some smoking hot stripper and you want her. Then 5 minutes later, you're banging her doggie style or she's giving you a phenomenal blow job. It's just truly an incredible experience.
Catmouse123-
I had to laugh about this one when I read it. That is exactly what happened to me at home in the US. I suppose 12-13 years back, I got in the habit of going to the strip clubs a lot, and I really liked what I was doing. I was spending a lot of money, just to go home under the influence of a hard-on. I eventually flew out to the state of Nevada, where some legal brothels exist. I got laid, but, the money it cost for sex with a 6 or 7+ was ridiculous! The attitudes were horrible and quality and good service was hard to find. Kissing, DATY, and BBBJ were almost non-existent. It's the only time in my life I actually tried eating pussy (the only option) through a piece of Glad wrap. It didn't make me very 'glad'. The last time I was at the Sagebrush outside Reno, Nv. , I approached a woman that might have been an 8 in looks. She acted like I was inconveniencing her, and wanted $700 US for a covered BJ and fuck for 30 minutes. And, that was 12 years ago! I wasn't asking to buy the thing, I just wanted to use it for a few minutes!
On the flight home, a started thinking about the couple of backpacking trips I took in Europe, when I got out of college, in the earlier 70's. I didn't have much money, then, but, I remembered the $5 HJ I got in Amsterdam, from a Barbie Benton look alike (if you know her, you're getting old, too) , the 80 francs ($16 US) bareback fucking (pre- AIDS) with the additional 20 francs ($4 US) BBBJ, from the most gorgeous Parisian red head in Kelly green thigh high boots, and the Frankfurt HBF 40 marks bare back BJ and sex with the red head streetwalker (pre-Eros Centers and FKK) that was so skinny after she removed her winter coat, that I felt sorry for her. I wondered if Europe still had much of sex scene.
When I got back, I started looking around on my new computer. I ran across the ISG, and history changed. A short time later, I flew back to Amsterdam for the first time since the 70's. In 8-9 hours, I could fly to a foreign country, get lodging, food, and get laid, all for less than the 'Sagebrush chick' wanted for a 30 minute spread! And, I've been planning adventures somewhere in Europe regularly ever since. And to end a long, drawn out story, I haven't been in an American strip club for six-eight years, and have doubts I ever will again, thanks to the ISG and the internet. My non-traveling buddies just can't understand why I won't go to the strip clubs, now. I just keep telling them, 'Go to Germany with me sometime, and then, I think you'll understand'.
Horbate
Hessen Bub
07-22-12, 09:30
Well said. I agree completely. That's why I laugh when people ***** about me giving 150E for a GFE+ session. 1 hour with one of the hottest girls I have ever seen. It is a ridiculous bargain.I have to contradict you. It is not as the standard price is 100€. But I get your point, though I don't agree.
HB
I had to laugh about this one when I read it. That is exactly what happened to me at home in the US. I suppose 12-13 years back, I got in the habit of going to the strip clubs a lot, and I really liked what I was doing. I was spending a lot of money, just to go home under the influence of a hard-on. I eventually flew out to the state of Nevada, where some legal brothels exist. I got laid, but, the money it cost for sex with a 6 or 7+ was ridiculous! The attitudes were horrible and quality and good service was hard to find. Kissing, DATY, and BBBJ were almost non-existent. It's the only time in my life I actually tried eating pussy (the only option) through a piece of Glad wrap. It didn't make me very 'glad'. The last time I was at the Sagebrush outside Reno, Nv. , I approached a woman that might have been an 8 in looks. She acted like I was inconveniencing her, and wanted $700 US for a covered BJ and fuck for 30 minutes. And, that was 12 years ago! I wasn't asking to buy the thing, I just wanted to use it for a few minutes!
HorbateOther than the Glad wrap story, which made me laugh, this is my experience exactly. We have decent strip clubs in my area (by US standards) but I haven't been in years. I'd rather save the cash for trips to Europe and elsewhere.
But if customers start giving in to higher and higher prices for things that are supposed to be included, eventually all of the prices will go up. I'm not saying it will ever be as bad as the situation in the US. But the nice things about FKK clubs now are that they're clean, legal, organized and cheap!
From my experience, sometimes the 50-Euro sessions aren't full GFE, although plenty of them are. I've never had a 50-Euro session without BBBJ, though some have lacked DFK. But if you spring for an hour, even at the standard rate which would be 100 Euros, you should be getting BBBJ, DFK, DATY, etc. And all with a smile! At least that's been my experience.
Of course it's a free market so you can pay whatever you like. But really there is no need to inflate prices and pay more than the going rate. If you do then the girls will start to think they're worth more. And that eventually leads to $700 lousy fucks with a girl in a protective bubble of plastic wrap.
USA strip clubs are a JOKE and a big WASTE of money! I haven't frequented strip clubs regularly in ten years. You get some suburban white girl with a little belly on her grinding on your dick thinking she's hot and she's doing something when she ain't doing SHIT to earn that money. I always laugh my ass off too at JUGHEADS going for "two for one deals" when all they're really getting is two half songs, which still adds up to one! LOL! Why pay $60 for a few minutes of "grind" when you can literally fuck for less than that? Yes, you have to pay to travel overseas and all of that, but if the travel is already a regular part of your life that you enjoy, then that's a non-issue. Hell, even in strip clubs in many countries overseas you can get a dance for much less with FULL songs and STILL fuck the girl if you want to afterwards! American titty bars aren't just a laughing matter. They're also RIP-OFFS to be avoided. Those strippers aren't doing jack shit but taking your money, and then they have the nerve to insist on a tip too and get indignant if you don't give them one! Fuck that noise.
Girl Friend Experience.
We are using this acronym a lot but what does it actually mean and are we using it to describe the same thing? I doubt it.
Saying the kind of sex you would have with a girlfriend instead of a prostitute doesn't mean much. I can understand the idea is of describing a sexual act with a lot of sweetness instead of rough sex but this doesn't always apply, among the relations I had I can very well remember girls with which we ALLWAYS had kind of rough sex. So I think my question is valid, although maybe not interesting for some.
I'm the first one to probably misuse this term as I very often talk about GFE in my reports, indicating sessions in which a lot of kissing takes place, caressing, there's sweetness and that kind of stuff. But this is really vague and personal.
So, when is a session GFE and when is it not?
Anyone wants to give his POV?
Kimino
Angus Magee
07-22-12, 17:26
Girl Friend Experience.
We are using this acronym a lot but what does it actually mean and are we using it to describe the same thing? I doubt it.
Saying the kind of sex you would have with a girlfriend instead of a prostitute doesn't mean much. I can understand the idea is of describing a sexual act with a lot of sweetness instead of rough sex but this doesn't always apply, among the relations I had I can very well remember girls with which we ALLWAYS had kind of rough sex. So I think my question is valid, although maybe not interesting for some.
I'm the first one to probably misuse this term as I very often talk about GFE in my reports, indicating sessions in which a lot of kissing takes place, caressing, there's sweetness and that kind of stuff. But this is really vague and personal.
So, when is a session GFE and when is it not?
Anyone wants to give his POV?
KiminoPersonally I feel GFE is one of the most over used terms in monger-dom. I know many guys use it to indicate a certain level of service and as such have a list of things that need to be included, usually at the very least BBBJ and kissing. Thus it is possible for a girl to claim and even advertise herself as a "GFE" provider. For me though it is more of a feeling thing or an energy that I get from the girl. Of course some will say I am an old fool who is mostly good at fooling himself. But some girls or sessions remind me of the type of sex I would have with a GF, if I can remember that long ago. So there is simply an ease or a flow to the sex and despite my self fooling abilities I feel a chemistry with the girl.
My experience is that some girls are very good at providing this with a variety of men. I am under no illusion (or maybe just a little illusion) that I am special to the girl. She however somehow has the ability to make me feel special and I certainly enjoy the illusion. Gabriella for Oase is a great example of such a girl, as is Fatima at Artemis and to a certain lesser degree, Nina. It is also not a static thing and can change. Any girl who advertises herself as a GFE-Pass
So to answer your question Kimino- A session is a GFE when I calls it a GFE. Nothing more, nothing less.
AM
Rocketboy0
07-22-12, 22:56
So to answer your question Kimino- A session is a GFE when I calls it a GFE. Nothing more, nothing less.
AMWell Hangus, the only problem with this is, does it mean I have to invite you in as the GFE Inspektor to confirm it when I feels it? You know how shy I am. It also depends on your relative standards. When I compare say to a sheep, all womens are GFEs.
Now of course, chemistry rules in these things, but there is also no doubt that some women really do get into it a lot more than others and do indeed seem to offer a full on session for many (hence their obvious popularity). Maybe the minimal attraction bar is simply lower for them, they are more highly sexed up with hormones, or just enjoy men. Who knows? But they clearly exist. Nymphomania is another word for it maybe though obviously dated and misleading as lots of cultural norms operating here. I guess you can make an argument for this at times at various gang-bangs. So some girls saying they offer GFE may not be complete bullshit, though obviously one must be wary. If she feels the attraction, there are less crass ways to get the message across.
I know I personally offer only the male equivalent (BFE) to all the ladies-otherwise I could not make the decision to be with them. But then again, all men seem to be nymphos.
All here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ3F7uAFSqs
The whole show great but check out the clip starting around 03:00 where college men and women are asked by strangers to have sex. Hilarious.
Smoky Jack
07-23-12, 00:53
Personally I feel GFE is one of the most over used terms in monger-dom. I know many guys use it to indicate a certain level of service and as such have a list of things that need to be included, usually at the very least BBBJ and kissing. Thus it is possible for a girl to claim and even advertise herself as a "GFE" provider. For me though it is more of a feeling thing or an energy that I get from the girl. Of course some will say I am an old fool who is mostly good at fooling himself. But some girls or sessions remind me of the type of sex I would have with a GF, if I can remember that long ago. So there is simply an ease or a flow to the sex and despite my self fooling abilities I feel a chemistry with the girl.
My experience is that some girls are very good at providing this with a variety of men. I am under no illusion (or maybe just a little illusion) that I am special to the girl. She however somehow has the ability to make me feel special and I certainly enjoy the illusion. Gabriella for Oase is a great example of such a girl, as is Fatima at Artemis and to a certain lesser degree, Nina. It is also not a static thing and can change. Any girl who advertises herself as a GFE-Pass.
So to answer your question Kimino- A session is a GFE when I calls it a GFE. Nothing more, nothing less.
AMGreat summation of what GFE means. If a girl can convince me that she is enjoying the kissing / DATY / BBBJ / fucking, and especially if she can put some doubt in my mind about whether we have some special "chemistry" going, then she is GFE to me. True hallmark of a pro in my opinion.
Catmouse123
07-23-12, 01:44
USA strip clubs are a JOKE and a big WASTE of money! I haven't frequented strip clubs regularly in ten years. You get some suburban white girl with a little belly on her grinding on your dick thinking she's hot and she's doing something when she ain't doing SHIT to earn that money. I always laugh my ass off too at JUGHEADS going for "two for one deals" when all they're really getting is two half songs, which still adds up to one! LOL! Why pay $60 for a few minutes of "grind" when you can literally fuck for less than that? Yes, you have to pay to travel overseas and all of that, but if the travel is already a regular part of your life that you enjoy, then that's a non-issue. Hell, even in strip clubs in many countries overseas you can get a dance for much less with FULL songs and STILL fuck the girl if you want to afterwards! American titty bars aren't just a laughing matter. They're also RIP-OFFS to be avoided. Those strippers aren't doing jack shit but taking your money, and then they have the nerve to insist on a tip too and get indignant if you don't give them one! Fuck that noise.Could not agree more!
StarletVoyager
07-23-12, 21:38
Just to let everyone know I have decided to change my name here on the forum. I am now StarletVoyager!
Thanks,
Mohab
I'm an older guy but have dabbled only lightly in the hobby. I have probably less mongering experience than any of the rest of you. I broke my FKK cherry last year with a dedicated trip to Palace. 3 long days there.
I was confortable (understatement) , confident, and successful in choosing good girls, avoiding upsellers and overcharging. DHow could such a newbie do so well in that infamously difficult environment? Well, most of the credit goes to tis board, where I lurked for years, then studied like crazy before the trip.
But it was only after I returned home that I realized that I had been well prepared by 13 years as a regular at a nice midwest college town strip club. Now, this one was better than most, in that it offered full nudity on stage and mutual touching anywhere but the G-string during lap dances. And there were plenty of attractive girls.
But more to the point, the social scene there was much like at Palace. Girls hung out singly, in pairs, or with customers. They paraded around or approached customers, etc. And the social dynamics were essentially the same: girls selling a service. I was able to develop and practice all the skills necessary for success in an FKK: learning to say no, observation, assessment, practice in saying no, developing my club persona, choosing my lies, more saying no, etc. These any many more skills and strategies have been well discussed here in the past. No need to elaborate now. I concluded that strip clubs provide better cross-training for FKK life than actual mongering in less social venues.
It was only after reading recent negative comments here that I awoke to the obvious: not all strip clubs are the same.
but if customers start giving in to higher and higher prices for things that are supposed to be included, eventually all of the prices will go up. i'm not saying it will ever be as bad as the situation in the us. but the nice things about fkk clubs now are that they're clean, legal, organized and cheap!there's a couple of things going on which makes the us mongering scene substandard.
first is. prostitution is illegal everywhere except for a couple of places where it is tightly controlled by laws. you're going to pay extra for top-shelf pussy when you're buying it in a country where the girl is taking a chance of going to jail. in the places where it's legal it's so tightly controlled as to kill all the "fun" in it.
second is. most women in the us don't really consider prostitution to be an option. this is because of the illegality of it; the fact that it's condemned by most people; the fact that prostitutes forfeit equal protection under the law (they're not supposed to but cops don't give a shit about hookers who are raped or abused) ; and, most importantly most women have other options for financial success than prostitution.
third is. us doesn't have an influx of aliens who are willing to perform sex work. let me restate that a bit, because many mexican women might come here to engage in the occupation but our immigration enforcement officials vigorously look for them and deport them.
this is not at all the case in germany where prostitution is legal, not so tightly controlled, there is an influx of aliens willing to engage in the profession (i. e. all the romanian girls) , and attitudes toward the profession are more moderate.
by the way. i've been expecting fkk's to increase prices due to the falling euro. right now $1. 21 us dollars equals 1 euro and the fkk's are fast becoming an even more awesome deal for americans. it seems the exchange rate on the euro drops everyday.
I've been expecting Fkk's to increase prices due to the falling Euro.Did you expect FKK prices to decrease when the exchange rate was over 1. 5 to 1 a few years ago? It is not obvious to me why the prices of services in Germany would be a function of foreign exchange rates, Euro to Dollar in particular, especially when the costs of generating the services in question are Euro denominated. I just read that deflation pressure in the Euro Zone is actually increasing.
I'm an older guy but have dabbled only lightly in the hobby. I have probably less mongering experience than any of the rest of you. I broke my FKK cherry last year with a dedicated trip to Palace. 3 long days there.
I was confortable (understatement) , confident, and successful in choosing good girls, avoiding upsellers and overcharging. DHow could such a newbie do so well in that infamously difficult environment? Well, most of the credit goes to tis board, where I lurked for years, then studied like crazy before the trip.
But it was only after I returned home that I realized that I had been well prepared by 13 years as a regular at a nice midwest college town strip club. Now, this one was better than most, in that it offered full nudity on stage and mutual touching anywhere but the G-string during lap dances. And there were plenty of attractive girls.
But more to the point, the social scene there was much like at Palace. Girls hung out singly, in pairs, or with customers. They paraded around or approached customers, etc. And the social dynamics were essentially the same: girls selling a service. I was able to develop and practice all the skills necessary for success in an FKK: learning to say no, observation, assessment, practice in saying no, developing my club persona, choosing my lies, more saying no, etc. These any many more skills and strategies have been well discussed here in the past. No need to elaborate now. I concluded that strip clubs provide better cross-training for FKK life than actual mongering in less social venues.
It was only after reading recent negative comments here that I awoke to the obvious: not all strip clubs are the same.And this nice midwest college town is?
Are you perhaps living in Germany and thinking of traveling to the USA for its sex scene? Just kidding. The name of the college town doesn't matter. Tho off topic, I'll tell the story briefly.
In the early 1990s someone noticed that in Missouri laws restricting behavior in strip clubs were tied to establishments serving alcohol. There sprang up a proliferation of non-alcolholic "juice bars" all over the state that permitted the kind of wonderful laxity I described previously. Of course laws criminalizing prostitution remained in effect everywhere.
Then about 3 years ago the state legislature outlawed all sexual behavior of any kind (outside of marriage) , including sexual thoughts. Just kidding again. But they did squash the juice bar phenomenon. Now dancers must maintain at least 3 feet of space between themselves and customers (not kidding) , among other silly restrictions. Missouri's clubs went from maybe the best to maybe the worst.
Did you expect FKK prices to decrease when the exchange rate was over 1. 5 to 1 a few years ago? It is not obvious to me why the prices of services in Germany would be a function of foreign exchange rates, Euro to Dollar in particular, especially when the costs of generating the services in question are Euro denominated. I just read that deflation pressure in the Euro Zone is actually increasing.LOL. No I never expect prices to go DOWN. Do you?
And. It's not a function of foreign exchange rates. The fact that the Euro is falling means that every Euro in the purse of a hooker in an FKK is worth less than it was one year ago. That's fine as long as there isn't any inflation occurring simultaneously. But there usually is.
You can bank this though. If the currencies of Romania, Hungary, and all the places the little FKK girls come from start to outperform the Euro. You will see prices raised. It's economics.
Smoky Jack
07-24-12, 21:11
LOL. No I never expect prices to go DOWN. Do you?
And. It's not a function of foreign exchange rates. The fact that the Euro is falling means that every Euro in the purse of a hooker in an FKK is worth less than it was one year ago. That's fine as long as there isn't any inflation occurring simultaneously. But there usually is.
You can bank this though. If the currencies of Romania, Hungary, and all the places the little FKK girls come from start to outperform the Euro. You will see prices raised. It's economics.Lapdances in California used to be $5 a song. Now up to $40. Had nothing to do with inflation. Not sure why it has gone up so much. I don't think economics are directly tied to the price of ho's or strippers. Hoconomics has its own dynamics.
Hessen Bub
07-24-12, 21:28
By the way. I've been expecting Fkk's to increase prices due to the falling Euro. Right now $1. 21 US Dollars equals 1 Euro and the FKK's are fast becoming an even more awesome deal for Americans. It seems the exchange rate on the Euro drops everyday.We've seen exchange rates from 0. 88 to 1. 58 US-$ for 1 EUR. Price for half an hour at a German FKK have been 50 EUR all the way through. Why should that depend on the exchange rate to the dollar? I get paid in EUR. I pay the girls in EUR. The take EUR back to their home countries, mostly EE.
HB
you can bank this though. if the currencies of romania, hungary, and all the places the little fkk girls come from start to outperform the euro. you will see prices raised. it's economics.nope, its not. romanian lei was overperforming in 2007 and the romanian hooker prices stayed the same in germany. hungarian forint was overperforming in mid 2008 and prices of hungarian pussy in germany stayed the same.
in germany, prices have been same for 10 years now, and before that they were actually higher (100 dm charge for 30 min in room became 50€ but the exchange rate was dm 1. 95583 = €1). and it had been 100 dm for quite some time before that so looking back at 15 year history, price of pussy in germany has gone down, and considerably so when inflation is calculated into the price.
in spain the prices have gone down even more. girls in clubs where girls the asking price was 70-80€ for a 1/2 hour session few years back are now accepting 40-50€, and some of the most desperate ones are getting pretty close to blowing you just to get something warm to drink. it will probably go back up once the situation becomes better in that exact area and men have more money to blow. it will be unrelated to the exchange rate of the lei or the forint.
i would not try to make too much economic sense out of pussy price. there are other factors much more relevant that decide the price such as legality, stigma, pimps etc.
few years back there was actually a peer-reviewed journal that published a study of the pussy price where the research question was why an uneducated woman can charge so much for manual labour and what was the cause o the premium above other manual labour. it was pretty interesting. i tried finding it again but no success.
Just to let everyone know I have decided to change my name here on the forum. I am now StarletVoyager!
Thanks,
MohabNice name, but why didn't you just use the forum's name change facility instead of starting again from scratch?
It was only after reading recent negative comments here that I awoke to the obvious: not all strip clubs are the same.But take it from a pro. Most of them are! Hell, I've fucked in strip clubs before. Had my dick sucked. Pumped a hot girl in the ass. Done all kinds of shit. All in American strip clubs! But, that's far and away the exception for strip clubs across this land, and anybody in the know who is being honest knows it. If you've seen one, then partner you've pretty much seen them all! And as far as that "cross-training" goes? Brothers save your money and learn ON THE JOB at a FKK or terma or wherever. Any place but a USA strip club. Even with the mistakes you might make, you'll still come out way, way, WAY ahead. Any "benefits" derived from the strip clubs are FAR outweighed by the "harm". I rest.
StarletVoyager
07-25-12, 02:54
Admin told me anyone over 100 posts can't change name. Anyway my new name reminds me of the mars voyager but I am instead searching the globe for the hottest hotties and not old rocks!
I remember one guy posted that he had no trouble getting BB at FKKs if he paid a large sum of money. Why the fukk you would pay to get a disease is beyond me, but I wouldn't want to session with a girl who offers bareback. To paraphrase an old comedian, I would not want to be part of any girl who would have my bare member.And what would the situation be if the guy who got BBFS went on and saw a favorite girl of yours? She just blew a guy who had BBFS only an hour or two before, what's the take on this? Reason I'm bringing this up here is my 'take' on the decline of the Bernds lineup. They used to have a nice mix of girls there, something for everyone. On my last visit (and from reports on this board) it seems the talent has declined significantly. I enjoy my trips to the clubs but really don't want to take home something extra to remember a girl if at all possible. If a club is known for AO then it seems guys who like that service tend to frequent those types of clubs. Its only logical to assume that more people in one club partaking in AO increase's the chance of someone carrying a disease and passing it along.
The question is this: you as a regualar hobbiest, would you still visit a club after learning that half the women performed AO (bareback full service)? Personally I don't doubt it happens in the larger clubs, have to believe its not as often as say Bernds.
Why should that depend on the exchange rate to the dollar? I get paid in EUR. I pay the girls in EUR. The take EUR back to their home countries, mostly EE.
HBThanks HB, that's exactly my point.
IMHO, the only time when the exchange rate with the Dollar *may* affect prices in Germany is if Germany imports a great deal from the U.S. (and these are essential products and services and that there are no alternatives), so much so that it impacts the costs of living negatively for the German. Even then, the law of supply and demand still comes in play. And in today's economic climate, there is a great deal of surplus and excess capacity in the market place due to falling demands. This is true in the general economy and to some extent in the P4P industry. That's why deflation is more of a threat than inflation right now. (Be careful with what you wish for, deflation is much worse than inflation.)
Hessen Bub
07-25-12, 08:59
Germany's eonomy is export driven. So a weaker euro slows it down as German good get more expensive. But we don't export pussy. For now.
HB
Are you perhaps living in Germany and thinking of traveling to the USA for its sex scene? Just kidding. The name of the college town doesn't matter. Tho off topic, I'll tell the story briefly.
In the early 1990s someone noticed that in Missouri laws restricting behavior in strip clubs were tied to establishments serving alcohol. There sprang up a proliferation of non-alcolholic "juice bars" all over the state that permitted the kind of wonderful laxity I described previously. Of course laws criminalizing prostitution remained in effect everywhere.
Then about 3 years ago the state legislature outlawed all sexual behavior of any kind (outside of marriage) , including sexual thoughts. Just kidding again. But they did squash the juice bar phenomenon. Now dancers must maintain at least 3 feet of space between themselves and customers (not kidding) , among other silly restrictions. Missouri's clubs went from maybe the best to maybe the worst.Well, before internet, ISG adn FKKs, I used to go often to the US on business and would spend a lot of time in SCs. I knew this law that you refer to, and I had pretty good time in someplaces, in Florida, California, Michigan etc. The new law had been implemented. At the same time, I discovered FKKS. And just don't bother trying anything anymore in the US. The only place that is nice is San Diego because Tijuana is 15 min away.
And what would the situation be if the guy who got BBFS went on and saw a favorite girl of yours? She just blew a guy who had BBFS only an hour or two before, what's the take on this? Reason I'm bringing this up here is my 'take' on the decline of the Bernds lineup. They used to have a nice mix of girls there, something for everyone. On my last visit (and from reports on this board) it seems the talent has declined significantly. I enjoy my trips to the clubs but really don't want to take home something extra to remember a girl if at all possible. If a club is known for AO then it seems guys who like that service tend to frequent those types of clubs. Its only logical to assume that more people in one club partaking in AO increase's the chance of someone carrying a disease and passing it along.
The question is this: you as a regualar hobbiest, would you still visit a club after learning that half the women performed AO (bareback full service)? Personally I don't doubt it happens in the larger clubs, have to believe its not as often as say Bernds.Here is an example how one, probably unvoluntarily, starts a "rumour".
Bernds, a club where half the girls offer AO? Any proof? Statistics?
I, for once, was offered AO in Palace, as well as Oase. Does it makee those clubs AO clubs?
Soon the whole of ISG will think of Bernds as an AO club. Unfair and untrue.
And with regards with quality of girls, Bernds has never been, and will never be an optofuck club, and that is fine to many of us. There is no recent decrease in quality, the quslity remains what it has always been, with a mix of young and MILfs most 6=7, providing constant outstanding services. I certainly understand that those wanting large numbers of 7 and above should go elsewhere. But to rubbish this club's reputation through the Ao fals rumour is not very nice.
Here is an example how one, probably unvoluntarily, starts a "rumour".
Bernds, a club where half the girls offer AO? Any proof? Statistics?
I, for once, was offered AO in Palace, as well as Oase. Does it makee those clubs AO clubs?
Soon the whole of ISG will think of Bernds as an AO club. Unfair and untrue.
And with regards with quality of girls, Bernds has never been, and will never be an optofuck club, and that is fine to many of us. There is no recent decrease in quality, the quslity remains what it has always been, with a mix of young and MILfs most 6=7, providing constant outstanding services. I certainly understand that those wanting large numbers of 7 and above should go elsewhere. But to rubbish this club's reputation through the Ao fals rumour is not very nice.The whole point is Bernds isn't an AO club yet. But its pretty obvious a good percentage of the girls offer this service (and not just to regulars) and the way you pay at the end of the night, management has to know its going on. Yes, AO happens at other clubs but as soon as management finds out, the girl is out the door. The clubs reputation is already tarnished by allowing this to continue.
Smoky Jack
07-25-12, 17:56
And what would the situation be if the guy who got BBFS went on and saw a favorite girl of yours? She just blew a guy who had BBFS only an hour or two before, what's the take on this? Reason I'm bringing this up here is my 'take' on the decline of the Bernds lineup. They used to have a nice mix of girls there, something for everyone. On my last visit (and from reports on this board) it seems the talent has declined significantly. I enjoy my trips to the clubs but really don't want to take home something extra to remember a girl if at all possible. If a club is known for AO then it seems guys who like that service tend to frequent those types of clubs. Its only logical to assume that more people in one club partaking in AO increase's the chance of someone carrying a disease and passing it along.
The question is this: you as a regualar hobbiest, would you still visit a club after learning that half the women performed AO (bareback full service)? Personally I don't doubt it happens in the larger clubs, have to believe its not as often as say Bernds.Of course AO will be offered sporadically, it is human nature. As far as blowing a guy who had BBFS, the timing is not so much the issue as the kind of guy who goes for BBFS. AO without a doubt increases the chance of "take home gifts" and the people who would partake in that are of course higher risk in general. I don't condone it, but there is zero doubt in my mind that it is available at Fkk's and elsewhere. To answer your question, I would not go to a club where I knew AO was commonplace.
Rocketboy0
07-25-12, 19:19
Germany's eonomy is export driven. So a weaker euro slows it down as German good get more expensive. But we don't export pussy. For now.
HBDon't mean to be pedantic or academic, but perhaps by accident or typo, this is backwards. Weaker Euro hugely beneficial to German exports as it makes them cheaper. In fact some feel weaker Euro might be key to sorting out the whole debt mess (see http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/63848d68-d578-11e1-af40-00144feabdc0.html). The slight downside is it makes imports (e. G. Oil) more costly. It would increase sex tourism by Yanks and Brits to the Pussy (Vater) land.
Don't mean to be pedantic or academic. It would increase sex tourism by Yanks and Brits to the Pussy (Vater) land.LOL: Getting rid of some of the "Yanks" who insist it's okay to vastly overpay for DFK and other standard elements, like the correct session time, etc, might not be such a bad thing after all. :)
The Pussy (Vater) land: That's a superb phrase, bravo! But don't you really mean: the Pussy (Opa) land?
O
Admin told me anyone over 100 posts can't change name. Anyway my new name reminds me of the mars voyager but I am instead searching the globe for the hottest hotties and not old rocks!Appologies StarletVoyager, I have obviously missed that particular restriction in the extensive FAQ section.
We've seen exchange rates from 0. 88 to 1. 58 US-$ for 1 EUR. Price for half an hour at a German FKK have been 50 EUR all the way through. Why should that depend on the exchange rate to the dollar? I get paid in EUR. I pay the girls in EUR. The take EUR back to their home countries, mostly EE.
HBSorry. Didn't mean to imply that it was driven only by the dollar. My follow up post on this should have explained it. As long as the EE's currencies are underperforming the Euro. There's really no problem. But when (if) the EE's start to outperform the Euro. Then the girls will be taking less money home after they exchange for their local currencies. This isn't the case just yet. Since I checked yesterday and most EE's are still falling faster than Euro.
As long as the EE's currencies are underperforming the Euro. There's really no problem. But when (if) the EE's start to outperform the Euro. Then the girls will be taking less money home after they exchange for their local currencies.The EE exchange rate is irrelevant. An average office or shop worker in Romania is taking home €150 a month (according to an adorable Romi at Oase). She can make that in an hour on a good day. It will take them decades to get anywhere near the Euro or DM (should it return).
Don't mean to be pedantic or academic, but perhaps by accident or typo, this is backwards. Weaker Euro hugely beneficial to German exports as it makes them cheaper. In fact some feel weaker Euro might be key to sorting out the whole debt mess (see.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/63848d68-d578-11e1-af40-00144feabdc0.html
). The slight downside is it makes imports (e. G. Oil) more costly. It would increase sex tourism by Yanks and Brits to the Pussy (Vater) land.HB is a bit more correct.
You are right for a single currency for a single country, but the Euro is a single currency for multiple countries, all of which have varying levels of competitiveness. Right now Germany is a powerhouse and it's competitiveness is off the scale compared to the rest of the EU. Germany is saddled right now with an undervalued currency in the EU since it doesn't reflect the state of the German economy or productivity. The article you cite is pretty correct in many respects, German exports would go up and wages would go up also. However, if the EU devalues by 10 percent in a year and wages increase by 5%. Then you're still 5% in the hole on wages.
Here's another article arguing for Germany to leave the Euro. http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/30/opinion/prestowitz-prout-germany-eurozone/index.html
If Germany reissued the DM. It would immediately appreciate and dwarf everything in Europe. And the US I think. You'd have no problems getting the prettiest EE women into the FKK's to earn those highly valued DM's. It would be a golden age for FKK.
The EE exchange rate is irrelevant. An average office or shop worker in Romania is taking home €150 a month (according to an adorable Romi at Oase). She can make that in an hour on a good day. It will take them decades to get anywhere near the Euro or DM (should it return).It's not irrelevant. If the RON were to appreciably outperform the Euro. One could simply start opening FKK's in Romania and the girls would work for the higher currency there.
EDIT: That is ... if prostitution were legal in Romania - which it isn't yet.
It's not irrelevant. If the RON were to appreciably outperform the Euro. One could simply start opening FKK's in Romania and the girls would work for the higher currency there.It's totally irrelevant. It's practically a third world economy. Hardly any infrastructure or manufacturing. It will never be an economic super-power. The people there earn approximately 10 times less a month than the average German. Seriously, how much do you think the world's second largest currency will devalue? Does logic or common-sense come into it, at all?
Arctic, if you know there is going to be a massive oil or gold find in Romania in the very near future which will totally transform the economy, then I hope you will let your friends on here know.
[QUOTE=Breadman; 1307891]And what would the situation be if the guy who got BBFS went on and saw a favorite girl of yours? She just blew a guy who had BBFS only an hour or two before, what's the take on this?
Yep, It Has Happened!
Here is an interesting story that fits in with the discussion about what HAS happened with bareback. My family physician at home in the states told me, this actually happened to a patient of his, after he had performed a vasectomy on a patient, years back.
The vasectomy had been done on this man and there had been enough time and testing to show that he was no longer producing any sperm. His wife, who was still fertile, turned up pregnant. She was absolutely adamant that she had never been unfaithful to him during their marriage. Of course, he disagreed.
It actually became a legal issue in the courts. It was proven, without a doubt, that the man was not producing any 'live bullets'. But, it was also proven that he regularly visited prostitutes, which he would normally do bareback. The courts eventually ruled, that he had had bareback sex with a prostitute that, in turn, had bareback with everybody else. He had then come home, with enough live sperm, from another man, in his urethra, and had sex with his wife, impregnating her. And, it is my understanding that she didn't much of a sense of humor about the whole thing! Remember that one next time you do bareback right before you meet your wife!
Horbate
[QUOTE=Breadman; 1307891]And what would the situation be if the guy who got BBFS went on and saw a favorite girl of yours? She just blew a guy who had BBFS only an hour or two before, what's the take on this?
Yep, It Has Happened!
Here is an interesting story that fits in with the discussion about what HAS happened with bareback. My family physician at home in the states told me, this actually happened to a patient of his, after he had performed a vasectomy on a patient, years back.
The vasectomy had been done on this man and there had been enough time and testing to show that he was no longer producing any sperm. His wife, who was still fertile, turned up pregnant. She was absolutely adamant that she had never been unfaithful to him during their marriage. Of course, he disagreed.
It actually became a legal issue in the courts. It was proven, without a doubt, that the man was not producing any 'live bullets'. But, it was also proven that he regularly visited prostitutes, which he would normally do bareback. The courts eventually ruled, that he had had bareback sex with a prostitute that, in turn, had bareback with everybody else. He had then come home, with enough live sperm, from another man, in his urethra, and had sex with his wife, impregnating her. And, it is my understanding that she didn't much of a sense of humor about the whole thing! Remember that one next time you do bareback right before you meet your wife!
HorbateHehehe.
In US I guess.
Or did this happen anywhere else?
The whole point is Bernds isn't an AO club yet. But its pretty obvious a good percentage of the girls offer this service (and not just to regulars) and the way you pay at the end of the night, management has to know its going on. Yes, AO happens at other clubs but as soon as management finds out, the girl is out the door. The clubs reputation is already tarnished by allowing this to continue.The whole point is that people like you are tarnishing the reputation of this club without the beginning of a proof.
In one PM you wrote to me, about bernds, some time back:
Quote: "Bareback can be had for an extra 50 per half hour by half the girls (I'm told)." End of quote.
So you vere "told" and now you "tell "us, and it becomes reality? Have YOU been offered, without asking, AO by a Bernd's girl? Ah, well, you were TOLD.
My experience is that I have never been offered AO at Bernds, while I have several times been offered such practices in Oase and palace. And I promise they are not out of the door.". Does not mean, of course, that some girls at bernds would not do Ao, but that this is management policy, again, is pure diffamation.
Anyway, your fearmongering posts do not seem to affect frequentation, if iI rely on some recent posts talking about overcrowding at Bernds.
Finally, as much as I can fully understand why you would not like Bernds, I cannot understand this fixation of AO. Your problem, mate.
Burma Jones
07-26-12, 18:22
Yes, AO happens at other clubs but as soon as management finds out, the girl is out the door.If the girls are independent contractors who pay the club each day, why would they be out the door if what they are doing is not illegal, perhaps just immoral (by not letting other punters know they have BBFS)?
Smoky Jack
07-26-12, 21:30
[QUOTE=Breadman; 1307891]And what would the situation be if the guy who got BBFS went on and saw a favorite girl of yours? She just blew a guy who had BBFS only an hour or two before, what's the take on this?
Yep, It Has Happened!
Here is an interesting story that fits in with the discussion about what HAS happened with bareback. My family physician at home in the states told me, this actually happened to a patient of his, after he had performed a vasectomy on a patient, years back.
The vasectomy had been done on this man and there had been enough time and testing to show that he was no longer producing any sperm. His wife, who was still fertile, turned up pregnant. She was absolutely adamant that she had never been unfaithful to him during their marriage. Of course, he disagreed.
It actually became a legal issue in the courts. It was proven, without a doubt, that the man was not producing any 'live bullets'. But, it was also proven that he regularly visited prostitutes, which he would normally do bareback. The courts eventually ruled, that he had had bareback sex with a prostitute that, in turn, had bareback with everybody else. He had then come home, with enough live sperm, from another man, in his urethra, and had sex with his wife, impregnating her. And, it is my understanding that she didn't much of a sense of humor about the whole thing! Remember that one next time you do bareback right before you meet your wife!
HorbateYou need to find a new family physician. That is IMPOSSIBLE. I would believe in immaculate conception before believing this story.
Senior Members,
Looks like I will be deprived of FKK action for the next 6 months when I am
Posted to NYC. Which 3 clubs would you visit if it really was your last FKK experience :-(
Mine would be:
1) GoldenTime.
2) Acap.
3) Oase.
Outside Germany:
1) GoldenTime (Vienna)
2) Globe. Zurich.
3) Aprodisia. Zurich.
You need to find a new family physician. That is IMPOSSIBLE. I would believe in immaculate conception before believing this story.Smokhee2003-
Most certainly very unlikely, but, not necessarily impossible.
The Mayo Clinic-
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pregnancy/AN00281
Smoky Jack
07-27-12, 01:54
smokhee2003-
most certainly very unlikely, but, not necessarily impossible.
the mayo clinic-
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pregnancy/an00281so the sperm went up into this guy's urethra, stayed there despite him peeing, and then got his girl pregnant, presumably after several or more hours? come on bro.
[QUOTE=Horbate; 1308330]You need to find a new family physician. That is IMPOSSIBLE. I would believe in immaculate conception before believing this story.No, it could be true. I remember a news item in the 1970s that made all the papers. There was a German couple in what was then West Germany-both white, of course-and the wife gave birth to a black baby. The husband was incensed, accused his wife of infidelity, and threatened divorce. The wife swore that she had never been unfaithful. It turned out that around the the baby was conceived the husband had fucked a prostitute who, earlier the same night, had been fucked by a black man. Some of the black man's sperm got on the husband's dick and he later passed it on to his wife through marital relations, thus impregnating her with the black man's sperm. Hard to believe, but it's a true story.
[QUOTE=Smokhee2003; 1308545]No, it could be true. I remember a news item in the 1970s that made all the papers. There was a German couple in what was then West Germany-both white, of course-and the wife gave birth to a black baby.I remember seeing this on TV but couldn't remember how she was impregnated. I also remember that she ended up loving the black kid as much as her other children.
According to this article, the shape of your penis was designed (or has been evolved) as an effective tool to "displace the semen of competitors from their partner's vagina" during sex:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/penis-shape-explanation_n_1642613.html
Amriptna111
07-27-12, 05:10
Some interesting facts.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3060907/Black-parents-give-birth-to-white-baby.html
Amriptna111
07-27-12, 05:15
Sumtimes I wonder how this girls can have the stomach in prcessing men of different age and ethnicity. In oase I saw amelia receving money from an old white guy. Young asian guy then an old black guy who is twide her age? I wonder how they can eat food I mean sucking different hot dogs of different colours all day?
Have any of you guys had an experience where once you enter the room the girls says you are too big for her and she can do only blowjob? What can you do in this situation do you walk out or just take the blowjob?
Are there any flat rate clubs in austria, specially near slovenian border?
Thank you for your answer!
Sumtimes I wonder how this girls can have the stomach in prcessing men of different age and ethnicity. In oase I saw amelia receving money from an old white guy. Young asian guy then an old black guy who is twide her age? I wonder how they can eat food I mean sucking different hot dogs of different colours all day?I suppose a hot dog is a hot dog to them, just different flavours.
A short FKK trip. 4 clubs, Palace, Artemis, Acapulco and Oase. I know it's not really possible to rank the clubs and compare them to each other, it can be day to day on all clubs and the experience can be different depending on that. But here is our picture of the clubs from different wives.
Fun factor or overall impression.
Oase. A clear winner this trip, the girls were not overly pushy just enough for our taste (except for one big one from Argentina that was annoying) , nice outside, OK inside, nice service personal and a nice place to spend a whole day in.
Atremis. It's nice to get away on the bottom floor between sessions and on the basic floor it's easy to get a god picture of the lineup, more aggressive girls but not so it started to bother us. To spend a great day there is no problem.
Palace. Probably the most flashy place of them all but we felt it was to compact and didn't have any really god place to get away between sessions. The girls were more shark types, especially when they felt fresh blood coming in. Only porn on the TV and after a couple of hours it got a little boring to be there, except for session the girls. But the service personal was great, probably the best of all clubs.
Acapulco. Well. After I found some god recommendations here this turned out to be a disappointment for us. The non approach style wasn't our style and it got boring very fast. I like to think that this club is more for regulars or frequent FKK visitors that gets tired of girls chasing, probably we would have enjoyed the club more if it was the last one on this trip. The service was crap except for the blond Russian girl that gave us the tour of the club when we arrived. I have hard time to see myself spending a whole day at this club.
Rooms and food, I put this together, we didn't eat that much at the clubs.
Acapulco. The best and cleanest rooms, the club felt very clean almost sterile, didn't try the food there.
Palace. Clean nice rooms and a great restaurant.
Artemis. OK rooms and OK food, well organized but the final touch is missing to reach the 2 above.
Oase, well while the rest was great in the club the rooms was more of fuck bunkers and the girls had to clean after previous visitors, gave I little dirty feeling in the rooms. Hope it changes when they are finished with their building project. The food has previously been reported here so we didn't even try that.
Sessions, girls and lineup. The lineups was great in all places so it's really difficult to say who had the best. More Rumanians in Acapulco (but hot ones) than on the others, Artemis and Palace had the biggest variety of girls from different parts of the world. Acapulco had the most even lineup where the most was in the range of 7-8, the others had more 9 and 4s. We did around +8 sessions in every place.
Oase. Had on this trip the best performers, we all had the greatest sessions there, the girls was flirting before and after the sessions with us and created a great atmosphere. That followed by Artemis and Palace where the girls was more pushy to get us in the room but was less interested in us after the sessions (some exceptions) but some great performers in both places. Acapulco well what can I say, we all had OK session, no rock bottom, some above average but most uninspired standard basic sessions. The theory we had about that place was that the non approach thing they have there made it difficult for us to scan and pick the god ones and we felt a little disoriented there in the beginning, how to approach, chose and so on. That ended with us picking the girls by their looks rather that the attitude, still impressive that there was no rock bottom session.
The god the bad and the ugly this trip. .
The god was the damage the evening at Acapulco did on my wallet, impressive, makes me wonder where in the world U can fuck so hot girls for so little money, it's on a lever with the really cheap monger destinations in the world. (If just the fun factor been higher)
The blond playboy bunny at Oase, I think here name was Bunny but the regulars at the club probably knows here, a tall leggy one with big artificially made boobs, great body and face from Berlin. My Elanore at FKK clubs a hot German blond model like girl, done a bunch of them but never walked out of the room really satisfied, except for the optic satisfaction, but this time, wow. It did started bad when we joke with here and she didn't got it and got little pisst off at us, crappy English from both sides I guess. After that was cleared out she sat down and chatted with us and she turned out to be a pretty cool girl. After chatting away some time with us without trying to get any of us in the room I decided to take a spin with here, without any expectations other than to get a nice optifick, but it turned out to be a great surprise, so god I had to repeat later and that was even better. After the 1st round I was chatting with some fellow monger that asked me how she was, little later she slide up behind me and slapped my bum smiling and told me she go with my friend. 5 min later she was back chatting after settling the finances and shower, I guess she can be a hit or miss type of girl that can execute here customers fast if she wants to and with the optic she provides and the skills she got I am not surprised. Anyway, some girls just cash in the repeat biz others evolve, too bad we didn't make to Oase the day after, would have been nice to do a day 2 with her.
The freckled Colombian at Oase did a fantastic great number on me, planned to repeat with here but then the blond ``Elenore`` rocked my world but when the smoked had cleared I can't say who was better of the 2 Oase girls, both are the type that I easy could have session with all day long without regret trying someone else.
The same goes for the extremely curvy Egypt / Braz girl at Artemis. I don't know what it is with her that turns me on so much but she just makes my world rocks. Been with her a couple of times before and she never disappoints, just oops I she did it again.
Beside this. 2 girls at palace that was above average. A small Egypt girl did a great number on me and there was a hot Turkish (I think) girl that worked in Artemis before (she told me) that gave a great memorable BJ.
A read headed Polish girl and a Braz at Oase, Palace had also a Braz from Sao Paolo that was top of the line. 2e hand info.
The bad and ugly.
The black shark at Palace. I tuned here down a couple of times but she just came back and I finally gave in. Oh what a rookie mistake I did. But I searched for a hot black girl to session and she fitted the bill and promised a hot steamy session where she would fuck my brain out.
In the room the up sell started. 1 hour, CIM, bum, kiss and so on, I told here we go for a standard 30 and see where we end, she pushed for cim and I told here if that happens it happens, she got little pissed off and started a raw brutal BJ that was really unpleasant and hurt me so I had to stop here and tell her how I like it, and she told me OK you pay me 100, and I asked why? Ohh I have no money blablablaBla, I told her no we see how this goes first and she started to give me a bad BJ again and when I got it up I asked for condom and started to do here missionary, but hearing here fake moaning turned my off so bad I decided to make this as fast as possible and turned here to doggy (she had a nice bum) but on my first push she screamed I went to deep. At that point I was about to stop and walk out or fake an orgasm but realizing that I would create a scene and probably make me more pissed and ruin the rest of the evening for me, I closed my eyes and thought about my blond Elenore from the day before and with that inner picture in my head and 100% focus on the task I made to the finish line. Fast up and out of the room so I wouldn't risk ending I a 35min discussion, she talking in the background all the time about tip money bla bla, me just smiling shaking my head, in the locker I realized that I didn't had 50 even realizing she wouldn't give me 10 back I had to give here 60, amazingly she complained about only 10 tip, was about to tell her that she should paying me for hurting my sausage and she would had got all she wanted if she would have done a god job, but I didn't. Back in the bar with a sore sausage I licked my wounds and promised myself to never ever go with that shark type again, but deep inside I know it's just a matter of time before I make my next blunder. It's always the same thing for me, I expect the girls to know that I am a seasoned monger that have been around the block many times and they take me for a sucker and try to pull stunts like it's the first time I pay for it, ohh well I probably never learn to always have my guard up.
Overall it was a great trip where most parts of the world was explored except for the Asian continent and almost all did a god job on us. Maybe the Latin parts of the world have an edge on the rest, but I am a sucker for Latin looking girls so that probably cloud my judgment. I hear a lot of negative comments about Romanian girls that obviously works in the club in great number, but I think they are in the same level as everybody else, some god and some bad both in looks and service, and if I look at the girls from a distance I can tell (in most cases) if they coming from Italy, Turkey, Spain, Russia or Romania, in the end it's all about service and optic and in that department they are like everyone else.
I am curious about the clubs in the Dusseldorf area. The price levels are damn attractive in that area and next trip we plan to explore the clubs in that area. Who have the non approach style, is the average line ups in the clubs as god as the big ones or is Acapulco the top of the line there?
Anyway thank U all for providing info here, I hope my crappy English provide some info to someone.
Cheers
Bacon Sandwich
08-02-12, 11:15
Just a quick question really: I know Harem (Unfortunately, I don't know WHICH Harem it was, whether the Saunaclub near Hannover or the Pauschaclub near Cologne!) used to have a room with a glory hole, where a girl would suck you off more or less anonymously. Either way, I don't think it exists there anymore. Does anyone know of another FKK, sauna club, RLD or Kino in Germany with a glory hole? It's a fantasy of mine. (Please don't tell me I have to cut a hole in my bathroom wall and hire a girl in-great idea as that may be!)
Delta Indigo
08-02-12, 12:01
Sumtimes I wonder how this girls can have the stomach in prcessing men of different age and ethnicity. In oase I saw amelia receving money from an old white guy. Young asian guy then an old black guy who is twide her age? I wonder how they can eat food I mean sucking different hot dogs of different colours all day?
Have any of you guys had an experience where once you enter the room the girls says you are too big for her and she can do only blowjob? What can you do in this situation do you walk out or just take the blowjob?These girls are sucking all sorts of dicks all day long. Long, short and many old ones. I am just curious, why do you think it is problematic to suck dicks of different colours. I think the hygiene and attractiveness of the partner would be the most important to normal girls, so for P4P girls this would be lower on their concerns.
I think the pre-eminent concern of the girls is cleanliness.
I think the pre-eminent concern of the girls is cleanliness.And the percentage of younger guys with money to hobby is a whole lot smaller than older guys with savings and or a good job.
Burma Jones
08-02-12, 21:30
And the percentage of younger guys with money to hobby is a whole lot smaller than older guys with savings and or a good job.This quote got me thinking (off the subject of the discussion of girls sessioning with many races). At the end of day, would girls who tend to session with older guys (longer sessions and possibly more tipping due to financial well-being) versus girls sessioning with younger guys (minimum time sessions, as many as possible) make differing amounts of money at the end of the day? I suppose it would rely on how busy the club (and the type of punter's in the club) is but I'm thinking of watching some girls process guys and return every 30 minutes for the next waiting punter and the girls who disappear with an older guy for hours on end. Plus wouldn't an older guy, who may require more time and attention due to age, be more willing to tip for services above and beyond a normal session. I would suppose those that focus on the older guys would come out on top at the end of the day (no pun intended).
A very informative and enjoyable post to read Tors Ham thank you.
After the 1st round I was chatting with some fellow monger that asked me how she was, little later she slide up behind me and slapped my bum smiling and told me she go with my friend. 5 min later she was back chatting after settling the finances and shower, I guess she can be a hit or miss type of girl that can execute here customers fast if she wants to and with the optic she provides and the skills she got I am not surprised.Most definitely Sunny; they should include a room with a revolving door just for her in the new extension.
I'm glad you had a good time with her though.
The freckled Colombian at Oase did a fantastic great number on me, planned to repeat with here but ...Leticia? If so, great DFK (like most latinas).
Great report. Thanks!
Most definitely Sunny; they should include a room with a revolving door just for her in the new extensionA couple girls I know mention that they will never do a duo with her, as she never washes after a session.
Best Regards,
Smuler
Hessen Bub
08-04-12, 23:09
In one PM you wrote to me, about bernds, some time back:
Quote: "Bareback can be had for an extra 50 per half hour by half the girls (I'm told)." End of quote.And this is true: BBFS is "unofficially" on Bernd's menu, not all women do offer it. As not all women do offer CIM, which is included in the standard service at Bernd's.
HB
Brazil Specialist
08-05-12, 14:49
[QUOTE=Smokhee2003; 1308545]No, it could be true. I remember a news item in the 1970s that made all the papers. There was a German couple in what was then West Germany-both white, of course-and the wife gave birth to a black baby. The husband was incensed, accused his wife of infidelity, and threatened divorce. The wife swore that she had never been unfaithful. It turned out that around the the baby was conceived the husband had fucked a prostitute who, earlier the same night, had been fucked by a black man. Some of the black man's sperm got on the husband's dick and he later passed it on to his wife through marital relations, thus impregnating her with the black man's sperm. Hard to believe, but it's a true story.Even if they were at a swinger party and the guy plunged his dick right from one pussy to the next, dripping wet with sperm, it would be quite unlikely.
Now if he has a few sperm on his dick, and half an hour later, without washing, sticks it into his wife, it still is quite unlikely to have enough viable live sperm to impregnate her.
This is like getting VD from a toilet seat. Quite unlikely
StarletVoyager
08-08-12, 02:25
Hi all mohab here name changed. Very simply I would like to know where you all would recommend going on either the Monday night or Tuesday all day on the day that automechanika starts. I will be visiting oase on other days previous to that so I am looking for a club other than oase as I will return home on that Tuesday. As far as I see it my options are world (but I have been told of thin lineups due to girls moving to clubs nearer frankfurt for the car fair) or palace (again reports of over commercialisation and sharkiness putting me off) or finally mainhatten (but again I am not sure due to thin early week lineups etc even though the fair is on I am not too sure about finding a plentiful supply of hot hunnies here). Anyway this is the puzzle I have been trying to crack with no results so far. I am off to frankfurt in a matter of weeks can anyone help me here please?
Many thanks,
StarletVoyager
Hi all mohab here name changed. Very simply I would like to know where you all would recommend going on either the Monday night or Tuesday all day on the day that automechanika starts. I will be visiting oase on other days previous to that so I am looking for a club other than oase as I will return home on that Tuesday. As far as I see it my options are world (but I have been told of thin lineups due to girls moving to clubs nearer frankfurt for the car fair) or palace (again reports of over commercialisation and sharkiness putting me off) or finally mainhatten (but again I am not sure due to thin early week lineups etc even though the fair is on I am not too sure about finding a plentiful supply of hot hunnies here). Anyway this is the puzzle I have been trying to crack with no results so far. I am off to frankfurt in a matter of weeks can anyone help me here please?
Many thanks,
StarletVoyagerIf the problem is finding something to do or a place to go on a Monday or Tuesday, why not remove the problem altogether and fly home on Sunday night. The money saved from not visiting on a Monday or Tuesday can be put towards another trip.
We all know the earlier days in the week are the slower days in the club so if you are after maximum hotties in a short space of time then just visit the clubs at weekends rather than drag out a trip to early into the week when the line ups are thin.
Angus Magee
08-09-12, 10:51
Hi all mohab here name changed.Mohab-got to wonder why after you change your name you remind us every post that you are Mohab? I mean if you want to be StarletVoyager just go with that.
AM
StarletVoyager
08-12-12, 10:30
Just want to make sure all my previous postings can be linked in the minds of those I have interacted with here so that in the future there is some continuation with my new updated 2012 name! If that makes any sense.
Banana Boi
08-12-12, 14:13
Y.
There are a number of German girls at Mainhattan, their place is the bar area nearest the reception adjacent to the smoking room. The Romanians occupy the rest of the club.I prefer German girls over Romanian ones so was wondering which NRW and FRA FKK's have the most German girls (under 30 and not overweight).
I prefer German girls over Romanian ones so was wondering which NRW and FRA FKK's have the most German girls (under 30 and not overweight).From what I have seen Oase's German contingent seems to have moved to Mainhattan. Sharks always seems to have German girls there too, not pushy and good service. I hardly ever see German girls at World except at the parties or the usual ones that have been there for years that are not my taste. Palace also has a fair German line up, read the Palace thread for the recommendations there. Golden Time has a good number of slim Germans. Less so are the other NRW clubs like Villa Vertigo, Planet Happy Garden, Living Room, Samya and Babylon. Subject to IMHO.
PussyLiccker
08-12-12, 16:12
I prefer German girls over Romanian ones so was wondering which NRW and FRA FKK's have the most German girls (under 30 and not overweight).Hey Banana Boi, I was once in search for German girls at one time, but after searching my last 3 trips, I pretty much given up because of several reasons. Since I had an inclination that NRW would have most mix of girls other than of Romanian origin, I have been hunting around that area for 3 trips, but ended up with only a few that offered GFE. There was two in LivingRoom. One was a gorgeous tall blond that gives off the aura of not being a GFE material since she stayed away from the couch areas. I went in the room with her and she did everything except anal, but I wouldn't consider her a full GFE, but she was a pure optifuck. Next was a gorgeous black haired German girl that was the same, would hang around the bar area, that I've noticed during when she arrived and was lucky enough to sit with her during dinner time. In the room, she got really into it. She told me she only comes on the weekend, but did not see her there on on my last visit. The only thing is that I was hoping to see them on my last visit to living room, and neither of them were there, and rest of the line up is rather small and not worth bothering and if you stay at the club a long time without going to the room with them they get upset and ignore you. Clubs other than GT, is not Frankfurt clubs like Oase, it's more of a short stay club if you come alone because of the small lineup with one or two good looking girls. Since I don't live in Germany and my sole purpose is to spend time at a club, I need to stay at a club that I can spend a very long time in, and most NRW clubs don't fit that because of the small lineup. What you'll find interesting about LivingRoom is that during the evening on Friday, girls tend to give couch action for a very long time to clients, I don't know if they are frequent customers or not, but it makes you wish that you get some couch action too before going to the room. For me, it turns me off if I don't get any couch action and another customer does, it makes me feel like I have not gotten treated fairly.
GT has the largest lineup in the NRW area. The only problem with GT is that on the days that would have the most girls like Friday or Saturday, it's packed full of men. Women have the advantage at this club, they don't have to put any effort to get clients, there are plenty of men waiting for them. For that reason, girls are treated much better than men at this club. And I'm sure the girl's services decline because of that reason. If you spot a hottie, you should take her right away there or you will not see her again because sometimes girls leave early. One time I went on Tuesday, and spotted a hottie that arrived around dinner, and made the mistake of not going with her, and she disappered rest of the night. Either she was in the room with a client very long time or left early or combination of that. She told me she left early which makes me think that girls will leave any time. Another interesting thing about GT is that there are girls that would hang out with the men for a very long time to relax. So, this makes it a bit difficult to approach them. And makes you question how fair you are being treated by the girls if they are hanging out with other men for free outside the room. But for the most part, they sit in the bar area side by side waiting for a guy to approach them. During the evening most of those bar stools will be empty because all those girls are busy. It gives you a sense that lineup is very small because of combination with number of guys there making it a gay club on packed days. Also, if you would look for a favorite girl there, it's hit or miss at GT, working girls are not consistent with the day they work like girls at Oase. So if you go there looking for a girl, and you might be SOL. In terms of service, GT girls do not offer GFE like Oase. Most sessions I've had, girls expected me to lay on my back like an old man from the get go. There are mostly old customers at GT so they are used to having sex that way, and I did not like that. Also finding a girl that kiss will be a challenge at GT as most of the pretty ones will not kiss. As for finding German girls, I have met several there. There was 5 that I've met, and they were all pretty attractive. So, finding attractive German girls highly probable in clubs like GT or LivingRoom. But the only problem is being sure that they will show up on the day you come to the club. Also, at GT there are less Romanians and girls from other countries like Poland, Hungry, Germany, and others. On last thing is the cleanliness of the girls at GT. Based on my last visit there, I would have to say girls do not clean themselves. 3 sessions in the row I've had, girls smelled down there. It rarely happens at Oase for me.
I'm pretty much done with NRW clubs for the time being because of above mentioned reasons. I wish there was more young German lineup at Oase since I have a thing for German girls, but I have met plenty of Romanians or Polish girls that are very attractive and offer much better services than any girls at GT or LivingRoom.
Simple. Golden time.
Ask for:
Sandi.
Kira.
Leoni.
Chantelle.
Dana.
Kim.
Luisa.
And many more.
Got here at 3pm and the overflow car was already full.
The club was packed and the regular Sunday lineup really lived up to expectations again.
4/5 news faces today, saw a new girl being shown around the club by the blonde boss and see was snapped up within 2 seconds of starting her shift.
Exotic girl with with half Brazilian German blood.
I prefer German girls over Romanian ones so was wondering which NRW and FRA FKK's have the most German girls (under 30 and not overweight).
Banana Boi
08-13-12, 01:25
Nice hearing from you, PL. As you know, I like to club hop when I'm in Germany so going to 2 FKK's a day is the norm for me. For that reason NRW seems to fit my clubbing habits. I'm currently planning my trip there for Sept / Oct. Anyone with NRW hotel recommendations feel free to PM me. Polish, Hungarian, and Czech girls are fine too.
Simex, love your live feeds. I didn't realize GT was a Sunday hotspot. I will remember that.
Yakob, thanks for the heads up about Mainhattan and Sharks.
I personally find Sunday / Monday / Tuesday the best days to attend GT.
Fresh lineup; plenty of rooms; less men and more space to roam.
Many of the GT girls avoid weekends instead they would hit other clubs,
Or stay at home.
Nice hearing from you, PL. As you know, I like to club hop when I'm in Germany so going to 2 FKK's a day is the norm for me. For that reason NRW seems to fit my clubbing habits. I'm currently planning my trip there for Sept / Oct. Anyone with NRW hotel recommendations feel free to PM me. Polish, Hungarian, and Czech girls are fine too.
Simex, love your live feeds. I didn't realize GT was a Sunday hotspot. I will remember that.
Yakob, thanks for the heads up about Mainhattan and Sharks.
As you know, I like to club hop when I'm in Germany so going to 2 FKK's a day is the norm for me. For that reason NRW seems to fit my clubbing habits.Actually, when you think about it, one of the main factors in deciding whether the NRW vs Hesse is better for "club hopping" is the MACCT (Mean Average Club Closing Time) factor. Clubs in NRW on average tend to close earlier than Hessen clubs. The average club within shooting distance of Frankfurt closes at 4-5AM, wheras in clubs near DD it is significantly earlier, like 01.00 or am I wrong here?
Also with the clubs closing later near Frankfurt, and those clubs offer, on balance, more extensive line-ups, your "club-hopping" milage might be greater in the Hessen clubs vs NRW. You more time to session and work the line-ups of two clups in the Hessen clubs, it seems to me.
However one great NRW club-hop formula is the GT / LR combination: You do GT from 14-19. 00 then ask the GT desk for a discount entry card to LR, and party the rest of the night (20. 30-03. 00) in Kaarst. And there is a good Hotel option 3min walk from LR!
O
Nice hearing from you, PL. As you know, I like to club hop when I'm in Germany so going to 2 FKK's a day is the norm for me. For that reason NRW seems to fit my clubbing habits. I'm currently planning my trip there for Sept / Oct. Anyone with NRW hotel recommendations feel free to PM me. Polish, Hungarian, and Czech girls are fine too.The clubs in NRW are closer together than most of the hessen clubs. Many also have lower entry fee's than Hessen. But you'd be passing up the larger better staffed clubs in Hessen for the chance to visit more clubs. I would recommend visiting partytreff dorsten and heavensgate as a combo since they're only a mile apart, will give you the chance to see a partytreff and a smaller fkk club up north. F39, Aca, Penelope and others in that area are worth trying out on a club hopping tour since Aca closes later. And as Ortos stated, GT and LR are great for club hopping, again since LR closes late.
Question to BB is how many days are your normal trips? Are they mainly under a week?
There is plenty of clubs in NRW that stay open (relatively) late. Acapulco, Dolce Vita, Heaven 7, Villa Marisol, Van Goch, Magnum, Mondial and Planet Eden stay open till 5 on fridays and saturdays (that's without even looking at the former red carpet clubs, pauschal clubs and partytreffs). During the week these clubs stay open till 3, 2 or 1 (depending on the club) , while Magnum is open till 5 every night. Living Room is till 4 on weekends and 3 during the week. Then there is clubs like Fun Garden and Villa Vertigo that have 'open ends' on weekends. Bigger clubs as Samya and Planet Happy Garden stay open till 3 on weekends, where PHG also gives you the opportunity to continue in By Night (next door, just make sure to empty your locker in time).
If this still isn't enough, you can go to Golden Dreams, where you can stay the night (with a lady of your choice if you can arrange a price) for 50 euros and can stay the whole next day as well. Really plenty of choices, with H7, LR, PHG, VV all within 20 km of each other.
Good Gap Analysis here Ortos.
If you "ever" get tired of the fantastic GT lineup. There's always plan B at LR for €35 more with the discount card.
I always find pockets of potential at LR. When I fly in late to Duss, it's my default club to leverage the longer
opening times and decent lineup.
Have fun whatever you decide. NWR is still my favourite for cost; qaulity and variety.
Actually, when you think about it, one of the main factors in deciding whether the NRW vs Hesse is better for "club hopping" is the MACCT (Mean Average Club Closing Time) factor.
However one great NRW club-hop formula is the GT / LR combination: You do GT from 14-19. 00 then ask the GT desk for a discount entry card to LR, and party the rest of the night (20. 30-03. 00) in Kaarst. And there is a good Hotel option 3min walk from LR!
O
Good Gap Analysis here Ortos.Young Ortos has always been known and observed to do great GAP analysis before and during his club and cabaret visits.
He also has a well honed talent for filling those GAP`s that he has selected with his accustomed care during his nocturnal ramblings.
E.
Young Ortos has always been known and observed to do great GAP analysis before and during his club and cabaret visits.
He also has a well honed talent for filling those GAP`s that he has selected with his accustomed care during his nocturnal ramblings.
E.And guess where he shops for clothes: The GAP! LOL
Member #4449
08-17-12, 23:38
Its time for me to post again. Its been a little while since I posted my experience about my first time paying for sex. My previous posts got discussed for the wrong reasons so this time ill post my incoherent mumbling here instead.
Links to my previous reports.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?668-Berlin&p=1291199#post1291199
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2588-FKK-Artemis-Berlin&p=1291200#post1291200
Again I will post about my experiences around paying for sex, and not reviews the girls, its just my way to process my experiences, trying to make sense of it all, as it can be quite daunting for my mind some times. I just hope it will be in some interest for others and just not some ramblings from a mad man.
Since I dipped my toes in the water in Berlin a few months back, I have now completed a four week trip around Europe combining two passions, great beer and great girls.
I have been to brothels, I have had escorts in my hotel room, and of course been to several FKK clubs. My experience has been many and varied from absolute bliss, to self doubt and depression.
For some reason many of the girls I was with, felt comfortable with me and opened up and I talked allot with them and them shared allot about themselves and how this business is, the good and the bad. I do not know how common this is.
The good.
I meet an escort that absolutely blew me away, I spent three "dates" with her over four days, each lasting three hours. This girl was perfect in every way for me, my ultimate girlfriend experience. Either we had genuine chemistry, or she is such a pro, that it took her ten mins to read me and gave me exactly what I wanted. In my mind its option A. She was perfect, in every way from her looks, to the way we talked over a glass of red wine, to they way she seduced me. She knew how to use her lingerie, her breasts, her body, everything to turn me on. Most working girls idea of getting a guy hard is to start the blow job ten seconds after entering the room, to few girls use all their "assets". I am seriously planning to see this girl again, when I was with her the illusion was perfect.
Other then this extraordinary girl, I had dates with two other escorts, one ok experience, and one bad.
The FKKs, oh the FKKs, how sweet they are. A FKK on a slow day from opening to around 20:00 is my perfect day. I have a few requirements though, they need a quiet area where you can escape the music. I hate the clubs where they have loud bad music everywhere, in the rooms, in the garden etc. Wellness area should be separate from the main lounge, no sauna in the smoky lounge etc, and ofcourse clean, they have to be clean. On top of my list is Palace, Mainhatten. Worst is GT Vienna, though the outside beds are awesome there.
I love the atmosphere, I love to walk around just in a robe, I love the attention from the naked girls. There is this special unspoken agreement among the guests, respect for privacy and personal space. Of cause there is exceptions, drunk guys are a nightmare, free beer in the clubs are a bad idea. One reason why I leave when it gets crowded.
The girls also seems more relaxed at daytime, it's easier to get contact with them, and talk to them. I just love how I can relax outside in a garden after a hot sauna, just gently rocking back and forth in a hammock and then some hot woman walks up to you and introduces her self, and the game is on. I found I like the attention I get from the girls, I do not find the girls at Palace pushy at all. Its just right.
The girls of the FKKs,
This trip almost all the girls in the FKKs have been good or great. Again I have to mention GT Vienna as the club with consistent bad service, or maybe I just picked the wrong girls. Palace, Mainhatten, Artemis, Oase, GT Bruggen, all great girls, and great service.
The first FKK visit on this trip started like this, I entered the club, showered. My mind was set on taking my sweet time to find the perfect first girl. One minute later, this cute petite blonde walked up to me and whispered three sentences in my ear, I got an erection in two seconds. And 15 minutes later I had just had the most amazing PSE sex, dirty talk, french kissing porn style, the whole nine yards.
I always found it funny how some girls when they whisper their seduction talk in your ear to get you to the room and is just perfect and hot as hell, and from others its just cheesy and not sexy at all, and basically a turn off.
The French connection.
One fine morning I had just entered a club, and this French girl was trying to sell my a threesome with her friend. None of them was my type at all. So I gave them the standard "maybe later" and walked away. She then stopped me a little later and talked to me again, this time alone. She was slightly chubby with great breasts, some guys would say she had meat on just the right places others would call her fat. Normally I like the petite girls, no skeletons though, that is a major turn off. Somehow this girl interested me, she turned out to be this awesome strong willed outspoken girl, that I really enjoyed. I did three sessions with her over two days totaling three and half hour. The last session was even no sex, just cuddling and talking. She is the slightly crazy type, who would walk over bodys to get what she wanted kind of girl. No compromises. She told me she once hit a client in the head with a bottle when he got aggressive, she called the police on him, the police proceeded to then beat him up again, as he was screaming and insulting her when the police arrived.
The sweet Polish Girl.
The last FKK on my trip was I bit more out of the way then the others so I had rented a car to get there, it also meant that I would break my normal rules and stay there from opening until closing. As I would drive to my next destination during the night and skip a hotel.
This day I clocked in eight hours of "room time" four of those hours with the same sweet petite strong minded Polish girl over three sessions. Including a two hour session on a sofa in the garden. This was my first "public" sex experience and was nervous about it, but there was waiting time for rooms so I decided to try it out. Over the two hours, filled with sex, cuddling, DFK, massage and talking. We where totally in our own world and I did not even notice that there was other people around that could watch us, and I did not care. It was a great experience having sex like this, out in the open feeling the cool afternoon breeze on your body, and not a care in the world, just a perfect moment in time. And the only focus was a great girl beside you, even with other people sitting in sofaes less then 5 meters from you, they simply did just not exist.
The bad.
One girl told me the story about Black Saturday. This is how some girls are broken in to this business, mostly the forced and trafficked girls. To learn how always to smile and treat customers right, the pimp ties up the girl, and then lets some guys have repeated sex with her over 24 hours, vaginal and anal, and she has to smile the whole time or they beat her. The girl gets no break no food no water just 24 hours of constant forced sex. The girls commonly has black marks or bruises on her lower back after this, hence the term Black Saturday.
This story fucked me up bad and it took me several days to get it out of my head, if this is even half true. It shows how bad this business is and what some girls have to endure to give "us" our pleasure.
The forced girl.
This exotic looking girl who spoke very little English intrigued me. So I took her to the room. I started in my normal manner, just talking and gently touching her body. Trying to get a feel for her. As her English was bad, this took a little while, but she was a sweet girl so I did not mind. But then she dropped a bomb on me, she basically told me she was there against her will, her "boyfriend" forced her to work there. She was a born and raised in Germany, but her parents was deeply religious immigrants. So the boyfriend threatened her with telling the parents that she no longer was a virgin and she partied and was drinking alcohol. She told me her father would kill or banish her, if they would find out about her. And the only good thing left in her shitty life was her family, so she would do anything not to loose that. So going to the police was out of the question for her. This is a culture I cannot understand or will ever want to understand, but the girl loved her family so much that she would rather work in forced prostitution then losing them. Her hope was that her "boyfriend" would find someone new and prettier in one to two years time and would then let her go. She told me she was taking anti depressants to cope. And if she had one great day among two bad ones she would be OK. She told me this because I was very nice to her and not the standard German customer. She feared that the if she told the this to a German customer or the club management or another girl in the club, they would contact the police and parents would find out about it. She swore me to secrecy and told me she felt a great relief being able to talk to somebody about this. Either she was a Oscar class actress and completely played me into paying her for two hours of her time with no sex. Or she was for real, I could see her fighting the tears several times.
And when I told her there where no way I could have sex with her after this, she got real scared. Turns out this particular club is really fuzzy about reputation and keeps scoreboards for the girls. So she was real worried that I would come out of the room not looking satisfied and tell the management that she gave a bad performance and should be kicked out from the club, she told me the boss could see it on my face if I did not get great sex, so she practically begged me to have sex with her. But I could not, I just keeps up the act the rest of the day always smiling when I saw her, and she was always kissing me etc.
What a total mind fuck this was for me, what should I do, I felt I had to do something, but she begged me not to. I left the room with serious self doubt and was depressed. Was I a good person for coming to places like this? Was I coward for not doing something? What can I do? Should I tell the management etc.
The irony of the whole thing was my reaction, the way I chose to cope with this. I basically went and had sex with another girl to feel better and then told her about the whole story without revealing the other girls name, to get it out of my system. She then told me this was a common story among FKK girls, in fact it had happened to her also, but she had broken free from her "boyfriend" and worked now 100% independently, and was "happy" with that.
After talking to allot of girls, I learned allot of things. Girls says that regular health checks are not mandatory in most clubs, and some girls choose not to take them. Especially the girls with "boyfriends" taking all their money, so they can't afford tests. Some clubs are runned by the mafia. Many girls have outside pimps / boyfriends and the clubs basically do not care, or can't care because if they get involved in the selling of sex part they get charged with pimping. They just provide the facilities where the guys and girls pay the same entrance fee to use them.
There seems to be two kinds of girls in these clubs, the ones who are independent and strong and do this for themselves because they want the fast money, to buy designer clothes and jewelry etc. And the ones with pimps. The strong independent ones basically say the girls with pimps are stupid and weak and it's their own fault and do not feel any guilt for them, because no matter what they tell them, they would not listen and always go back to their "boyfriends". So they just stop caring about them.
How do you, guys handle the bad side of prostitution, I am basically in bliss when I am with the girls, but the day after I get self doubt and feel badly about it. How do you cope, how do you rationalize it. How can some guys buy sex from drug addicts for 20 euro, and be fine with that and believing its consensual sex. How can guys treat the girls like they are nothing, a product to be used and thrown away, and go home with a clean consciousness. And the you got a whole new subject about wives / girlfriends / children that some of you have to think of. That I don't have to.
I personally have tried to only to buy sex from independent woman, who choose this line of work from themselves. To keep my conscious clean, and as you can read I have failed. And have a hard time with that, still the sweetness of the bliss I experience pulls me, so I really doubt I can stop now, I really have opened a can of worms for myself. Thank the Norse gods there is no FKK in Norway or I would been broke within six months.
There is a lot I have left out, it would simply be to long a post otherwise.
*Disclaimer, all information in this post is my personal observations and / or hearsay, and should be treated as sutch.
Great read in all 3 reports Batou75. I really liked your pensive, self-reflective and introspective commentary. I find I do this myself but have not encountered the diversity of girls or experiences that you have had in only your 1st month vs my 12+ years. Should be added to the posts of distinction.
Hessen Bub
08-18-12, 08:44
One girl told me the story about Black Saturday. This is how some girls are broken in to this business, mostly the forced and trafficked girls. To learn how always to smile and treat customers right, the pimp ties up the girl, and then lets some guys have repeated sex with her over 24 hours, vaginal and anal, and she has to smile the whole time or they beat her. The girl gets no break no food no water just 24 hours of constant forced sex. The girls commonly has black marks or bruises on her lower back after this, hence the term Black Saturday.
This story fucked me up bad and it took me several days to get it out of my head, if this is even half true. It shows how bad this business is and what some girls have to endure to give "us" our pleasure.
I personally have tried to only to buy sex from independent woman, who choose this line of work from themselves. To keep my conscious clean, and as you can read I have failed. And have a hard time with that, Black Saturdays. Common, more than most FKK visitors would think. It's the clean and open facilities, the wellness areas, the ambience which fool the men, are intended to fool them, to make you think everything is clean, legal, the girls working independently and having fun. BS. It's the same pay for sex industry as everywhere else, in a nicer environment. Same pimps, Hells Angels, Albanian and Romanian "managers", girls trafficked.
As you said: you "tried to only to buy sex from independent woman". You can try. But you won't succeed. The dark side is always there. If you can't cope with it. Stay away from paysex.
And does a girl, driven by the economical situation in her country, choose the job herself?
HB
One girl told me the story about Black Saturday. This is how some girls are broken in to this business, mostly the forced and trafficked girls. To learn how always to smile and treat customers right, the pimp ties up the girl, and then lets some guys have repeated sex with her over 24 hours, vaginal and anal, and she has to smile the whole time or they beat her. The girl gets no break no food no water just 24 hours of constant forced sex. The girls commonly has black marks or bruises on her lower back after this, hence the term Black Saturday.Main driving force of this business is lure of quick money and that attracts all sorts of women, but mainly ones who have stomach to be with many different men even some repulsive ones. As it attracts women from general population it also brings in all sorts of problems from that general population, like drug addition or abusive / submissive personalities and relationships. It also brings in entrepreneur types too who see this as their golden opportunity, but majority in my view are driven, like all of us in choosing our jobs, that is what I can do with reasonable effort that will pay me maximum money.
Some girls drive convertibles to work, some say to their children that they are real estate agents and go to different towns to do this business. Some leave child with husband in Romania for 3 weeks and then go back for 2 weeks and this is their main source of family income. I met number of Dominican girls who married German guy (probably on vacation) , and when they move to Germany they get papers and leave husband and go their own way. Several German girls whose mother is German and father American black, Croatian, Iranian etc. Who is hairdresser or office worker, likes to fuck and supplements income. I met Bulgarian girls who jointly get apartment in Frankfurt and they go back and forth on the bus to save money. And, of course, I have seen girls being dropped off from Bulgarian, Romanian or German license plates cars in front of clubs.
I think what you say here is extreme and it happens here and there as a result of abusive personality involved. Abuse happens all over the world and it has nothing to do with paid sex. I do not think is a norm in Germany where this business is legal and regulated. In countries where it is illegal and trafficking is the only supply route it may happen more often but I don't think is that common even there because you cannot run business in a long run by forcing people. People have to have economic interest for business to exist otherwise supply will eventually be reduced and business will die out.
My 2c on this very disturbing topic.
Hessen Bub
08-18-12, 15:01
I think what you say here is extreme and it happens here and there as a result of abusive personality involved. Abuse happens all over the world and it has nothing to do with paid sex. I do not think is a norm in Germany where this business is legal and regulated. In countries where it is illegal and trafficking is the only supply route it may happen more often but I don't think is that common even there because you cannot run business in a long run by forcing people. People have to have economic interest for business to exist otherwise supply will eventually be reduced and business will die out.
My 2c on this very disturbing topic.There's quite a lot of discussion going on in Germany if the legalization of prostitution did any good to the working girls. Or just to the folks running clubs, brothels etc.
http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=prostitutionsgesetz%20english%20discussion&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CE8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cahrv.uni-osnabrueck.de%2Freddot%2FBroschuereProstGenglisch. Pdf&ei=vJ8vUPKeNszTsgb91oFQ&usg=AFQjCNGPBTdbBQXW5fNVRVKqiXlm0bWURw&cad=rja.
HB
Batou (and HB and Hedonian). Excellent consideration. You have covered just about all the main things so I won't add much.
One way I look at it is that any work is to some extent co-ercive. You exchange your freedom and time in exchange for money. Working in the clubs can be a better option than many jobs (although in some cases of course it carries many risks of increased abuse by pimps, increased risk of cervical cancer etc etc). So, if a girl is working as an economic migrant I can live with that (and even admire it)
Like Batou I tend to try to find girls who are on the independent side who as a result can often be more honest about themselves, their motives and their lives. For me this approach means that (if they wish) I am treating them with respect, honesty and as equal to me. My problem is that despite my advanced age and average looks, I am finding that on occasions girls end up liking me (cynics may say they are playing me a line but I am not so stupid as not to be able to tell). And this has very occasionally disturbed the girl's emotional equlilibrium, which I now have a bad feeling about since their lives can be difficult enough anyway. Seems the whole business is unendingly complex
Amriptna111
08-18-12, 17:53
Batou (and HB and Hedonian). Excellent consideration. You have covered just about all the main things so I won't add much.
Like Batou I tend to try to find girls who are on the independent side who as a result can often be more honest about themselves, their motives and their lives. For me this approach means that (if they wish) I am treating them with respect, honesty and as equal to me. My problem is that despite my advanced age and average looks, I am finding that on occasions girls end up liking me (cynics may say they are playing me a line but I am not so stupid as not to be able to tell). And this has very occasionally disturbed the girl's emotional equlilibrium, which I now have a bad feeling about since their lives can be difficult enough anyway. Seems the whole business is unendingly complexOptimist could you please share how do your scour for those independant and those who have pimps? How can you tell (eventhough it may NOT be fullproof but if it could help please share). Reason I asked is because one of my fav girls in oase during my last visit saw her sittin watching the tv with a very gloomy look (she is usually cheerfull). Though when she saw me she smiled and everythingi could tell it was fake and then I noticed she has a swollen eye a dn swollen cheek which was concelaed using heavy powder. You could tell either she hit something or someone hit her but I doubt it was her hitting something as it was at 2 different location. I had a feeling she was beaten. I didn't session with her and I really did feel sick to see that. I mean she has to put up with kissing old ugly men doing allsors of things and at the end of the day some stupic young blardy idiot takes her money. If anywaone could share how to spot an independant girl please do share
Almost 99% of the population of the planet is "FORCED" to work to survive. Here in the USA. We have WalMart. There are some hot chicks (not many but some) who work for WalMart 40 to 60 hours a week and they make minimum wage. They could make much more in a German FKK in one summer and then could fly home and attend college the rest of the year. They won't do this but. Is that the fault of all those Romanian beauties who do?
They won't do this because, of course, Americans are "freaked out" by prostitution and anything sexual in general. Here in America, a woman can be RUINED. RUINED I TELL YOU. By a penis if she allows it inside her from the wrong man. Or with the wrong "thoughts" in her head! LOL. This is the land where the whole "trafficking" myth originated and I'm surprised that Europeans are following our sorry lead on this.
How many chicks working at WalMart have a mean old boyfriend or husband who forces them to work at WalMart and then spends all the money they make there? Yet. No one complains about these "WalMart Pimps".
Is a 17 year old kid who joins the USA Military and gets killed the next year in Afghanistan a "trafficked" individual? Is his fate as dire as that of a hookers? No. His is MUCH worse.
In California, they have a new proposition (PROP 35) which seeks to ban "sexual slavery". Wow. Really? And here I thought such slavery was already banned? Silly me. Not only that. But basically any prostitute can now be classified as a "trafficked sex slave".
All trafficking is women moving across borders. Sometimes legally, sometimes illegally. For the purpose of making money. There is nothing wrong with this.
Though when she saw me she smiled and everythingi could tell it was fake and then I noticed she has a swollen eye a dn swollen cheek which was concelaed using heavy powder. You could tell either she hit something or someone hit her but I doubt it was her hitting something as it was at 2 different location. I had a feeling she was beaten. I didn't session with her and I really did feel sick to see that. I mean she has to put up with kissing old ugly men doing allsors of things and at the end of the day some stupic young blardy idiot takes her money. If anywaone could share how to spot an independant girl please do shareYou're making a lot of assumptions here. Someone obviously hit her but is that grounds to conclude that she is a sex slave who's abused by a pimp?
Maybe she had a run-in with another girl at the club who hit her with something? Maybe someone mugged her on the train? Maybe she was abused by a customer? Maybe she has an abusive boyfriend?
London Traveller
08-18-12, 19:50
Optimist could you please share how do your scour for those independant and those who have pimps? How can you tell (eventhough it may NOT be fullproof but if it could help please share).Why not ask the girl?
There seems to be two kinds of girls in these clubs, the ones who are independent and strong and do this for themselves because they want the fast money, to buy designer clothes and jewelry etc. And the ones with pimps. The strong independent ones basically say the girls with pimps are stupid and weak and it's their own fault and do not feel any guilt for them, because no matter what they tell them, they would not listen and always go back to their "boyfriends". So they just stop caring about them.This is the important thing to remember here. I'm really unaware of any "sex slave cartels" out there. Sure. There may be some organizations that help girls get papers and transportation across borders and demand a payment for that service. Perhaps even punitive rates for such a service. But I believe most "pimps" are simply abusive boyfriends that take advantage of women. I imagine those girls have sex with those abusive boyfriends and I imagine it's not very pleasant for them. If you're a nice guy. How could having sex with you be worse than that?
Personally, I would not have paid for a two-hour session without sex. I think that girl probably worked you.
This is the important thing to remember here. I'm really unaware of any "sex slave cartels" out there. Sure. There may be some organizations that help girls get papers and transportation across borders and demand a payment for that service. Perhaps even punitive rates for such a service. But I believe most "pimps" are simply abusive boyfriends that take advantage of women. I imagine those girls have sex with those abusive boyfriends and I imagine it's not very pleasant for them. If you're a nice guy. How could having sex with you be worse than that?
Personally, I would not have paid for a two-hour session without sex. I think that girl probably worked you.Of cause this is busness. Each girl makes 200000 one year. The pimps make the girls love them first, only later hit them. The girls become working girls, their heads are fucked so they become clever only for the work. This is the life and the working girls are big liers believe nothing. One guy asks how you know girl has pimp, good service kissing these things mean she has pimp and must work hard. Germany becomes slowly one center for this work and everyone knows for this from many countries. Just enjoy sex from these women nothing more.
Amriptna111
08-18-12, 22:34
Why not ask the girl?Great advice! Awesome. Thanks!
Amriptna111
08-18-12, 22:36
You're making a lot of assumptions here. Someone obviously hit her but is that grounds to conclude that she is a sex slave who's abused by a pimp?
Maybe she had a run-in with another girl at the club who hit her with something? Maybe someone mugged her on the train? Maybe she was abused by a customer? Maybe she has an abusive boyfriend?Well yeah I agreed with the assumption part but really it does bothers me about the black Saturday thingy. I was under the impression they are there to make quick money well at first anyway.
Hessen Bub
08-18-12, 22:59
I'm really unaware of any "sex slave cartels" out there.Which doesn't mean they don't exist. You are too optimistic, let me tell you.
HB
Member #4449
08-18-12, 23:44
Personally, I would not have paid for a two-hour session without sex. I think that girl probably worked you.Maybe she did. But I would rather be the guy that got scamed, then the stone cold guy that would have sex with her anyway. But in heinsight I should have broken off the session mutch sooner. But my brain stopped working I did not know what to do or how to handle the situation.
Jabbajabba
08-18-12, 23:52
I will be in Frankfurt for a short period in September, and it so happens that one of my available days will be Saturday. 15 September, the last evening of the large Automechanika messe. Having read past reports, I am familiar with some of the trade-offs involved with going to Oase, Palace, Mainhattan, or World during that particular messe.
From what I have read, Oase, Mainhattan, and Palace will all likely be packed with girls before 10 pm, so any would be good choices for going early. World may be a little depleted with girls heading to other clubs closer to the city (the above, plus Sharks) to get in on the messe action. But later in the evening, Oase, Mainhattan, and Palace will likely be flooded with men. Based on what I have read, this sounds pretty awful: some men walking around fully clothed, girls in full-on processor mode, overcrowded public areas, etc. Some of these clubs may be better at dealing with the influx of men (sounds like Mainhattan may be better than Oase in this regard?).
My question is this: If you had to choose a club in which to spend that evening, which would you choose and why? I would be particularly grateful to hear from local or senior members or others who have experience visiting clubs during this particular messe. I wasn't planning to rent a car, but if people strongly suggest that World is the way to go, I would consider trying to get access to one.
ThanksI am going to be there on 14, 15 and 16, I will have a car too, I was thinking of going to a partytreff if you're interested?
Which doesn't mean they don't exist. You are too optimistic, let me tell you.
HBAs a matter of fact I've done a lot of research on this issue. I know that the USA Department of State is all over the [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) issue as well as the United Nations and if there are all these sex slave cartels. Where are they? Why hasn't a single one been found? Doesn't mean that they don't exist. You're right about that. But it's a good indication that they are much more rare than the trafficking propaganda would have you believe.
[CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) is BIG BUSINESS for law enforcement. Here in the USA for example, it's a beautiful way for state and local police departments to pull money out of the federal government. More tax dollars down the drain and who's going to complain about spending money to combat "slavery"? Beautiful racket it is.
In fact. In Indianapolis, for the Super Bowl. They predicted tens of thousands of sex slaves. Yet I can only find they made arrests for two women.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30371575/detail.html
Once authorities determined that the women were part of a [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) operation, their status shifted from suspect to victim, RTV6's Jack Rinehart reported.So of course. Two women are arrested and told that if they admit they are victims of "[CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908)" then they will receive victim status. Otherwise, they receive criminal status and go to jail. Not too surprising what they'd select.
Again, HB. Not saying that some women are "pushed" into prostitution. But then again, aren't some women "pushed" into becoming a WalMart check-out girl? Aren't some people "pushed" to join the military? Bengali men are certainly "pushed" to become laborers in rich Arab nations. But they are earning a better paycheck than what they'd receive in Bangla Desh.
When I get in a cab in Dubai. I don't ask the taxi driver if he's had a hard life and feels pressured to drive me. I don't think twice about the WalMart check-out girl's abusive husband who takes all her money. What we're talking about here isn't a symptom of prostitution. It's a symptom of the sad state of human affairs all around.
Brazil Specialist
08-19-12, 10:39
[. ]
the bad.
one girl told me the story about black saturday. this is how some girls are broken in to this business, mostly the forced and trafficked girls. to learn how always to smile and treat customers right, the pimp ties up the girl, and then lets some guys have repeated sex with her over 24 hours, vaginal and anal, and she has to smile the whole time or they beat her. the girl gets no break no food no water just 24 hours of constant forced sex. the girls commonly has black marks or bruises on her lower back after this, hence the term black saturday.
this story fucked me up bad and it took me several days to get it out of my head, if this is even half true. it shows how bad this business is and what some girls have to endure to give "us" our pleasure.
the forced girl.
this exotic looking girl who spoke very little english intrigued me. so i took her to the room. i started in my normal manner, just talking and gently touching her body. trying to get a feel for her. as her english was bad, this took a little while, but she was a sweet girl so i did not mind. but then she dropped a bomb on me, she basically told me she was there against her will, her "boyfriend" forced her to work there. she was a born and raised in germany, but her parents was deeply religious immigrants. so the boyfriend threatened her with telling the parents that she no longer was a virgin and she partied and was drinking alcohol. she told me her father would kill or banish her, if they would find out about her. and the only good thing left in her shitty life was her family, so she would do anything not to loose that. so going to the police was out of the question for her. this is a culture i cannot understand or will ever want to understand, but the girl loved her family so much that she would rather work in forced prostitution then losing them. her hope was that her "boyfriend" would find someone new and prettier in one to two years time and would then let her go. she told me she was taking anti depressants to cope. and if she had one great day among two bad ones she would be ok. she told me this because i was very nice to her and not the standard german customer. she feared that the if she told the this to a german customer or the club management or another girl in the club, they would contact the police and parents would find out about it. she swore me to secrecy and told me she felt a great relief being able to talk to somebody about this. either she was a oscar class actress and completely played me into paying her for two hours of her time with no sex. or she was for real, i could see her fighting the tears several times.
and when i told her there where no way i could have sex with her after this, she got real scared. turns out this particular club is really fuzzy about reputation and keeps scoreboards for the girls. so she was real worried that i would come out of the room not looking satisfied and tell the management that she gave a bad performance and should be kicked out from the club, she told me the boss could see it on my face if i did not get great sex, so she practically begged me to have sex with her. but i could not, i just keeps up the act the rest of the day always smiling when i saw her, and she was always kissing me etc.
what a total mind fuck this was for me, what should i do, i felt i had to do something, but she begged me not to. i left the room with serious self doubt and was depressed. was i a good person for coming to places like this? was i coward for not doing something? what can i do? should i tell the management etc.
the irony of the whole thing was my reaction, the way i chose to cope with this. i basically went and had sex with another girl to feel better and then told her about the whole story without revealing the other girls name, to get it out of my system. she then told me this was a common story among fkk girls, in fact it had happened to her also, but she had broken free from her "boyfriend" and worked now 100% independently, and was "happy" with that.
after talking to allot of girls, i learned allot of things. girls says that regular health checks are not mandatory in most clubs, and some girls choose not to take them. especially the girls with "boyfriends" taking all their money, so they can't afford tests. some clubs are runned by the mafia. many girls have outside pimps / boyfriends and the clubs basically do not care, or can't care because if they get involved in the selling of sex part they get charged with pimping. they just provide the facilities where the guys and girls pay the same entrance fee to use them.
there seems to be two kinds of girls in these clubs, the ones who are independent and strong and do this for themselves because they want the fast money, to buy designer clothes and jewelry etc. and the ones with pimps. the strong independent ones basically say the girls with pimps are stupid and weak and it's their own fault and do not feel any guilt for them, because no matter what they tell them, they would not listen and always go back to their "boyfriends". so they just stop caring about them.
how do you, guys handle the bad side of prostitution, i am basically in bliss when i am with the girls, but the day after i get self doubt and feel badly about it. how do you cope, how do you rationalize it. how can some guys buy sex from drug addicts for 20 euro, and be fine with that and believing its consensual sex. how can guys treat the girls like they are nothing, a product to be used and thrown away, and go home with a clean consciousness. and the you got a whole new subject about wives / girlfriends / children that some of you have to think of. that i don't have to.
i personally have tried to only to buy sex from independent woman, who choose this line of work from themselves. to keep my conscious clean, and as you can read i have failed. and have a hard time with that, still the sweetness of the bliss i experience pulls me, so i really doubt i can stop now, i really have opened a can of worms for myself. thank the norse gods there is no fkk in norway or i would been broke within six months.
there is a lot i have left out, it would simply be to long a post otherwise.
*disclaimer, all information in this post is my personal observations and / or hearsay, and should be treated as sutch.i have personally seen or know from good friends clear slavery issues in various countries, over 10 years ago when i was more active. there also is lots of hearsay about this in germany.
unfortunately, all the sex trafficking fighters in reality fight prostitution in its entirety. it is very unusual to see institutions that actively promote legal free prostitution and fight the forced involuntary part of it.
talent visas for prostitutes would be helpful, but just mentioning this in today's feminist climate is a joke. will never happen.
the opposite side of the coin is rarely mentioned, too. the suffering of 40 year old virgin men who never get laid.
or how free prostitution tends to turn into scamming prostitutes. i have seen many places ruined by girls figuring out that they can get easier money by scamming then by actually providing services. in my experience, girls that are pressured. be it by criminal violent pimps or just by agencies who enforce standards- tend to give better service, are less prone to scam, rob or steal. yes, i know this is sad.
as an extreme example, in a recent raid on a tourist rip-off bar in brazil police found date [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) drugs with seven girls. these drugs are used to knock out dumb tourists and then totally clean out their apartment.
recently, in germany, i saw my share of m. slim girls fleeing murderous family hiding in fkk. these were the nicest gfe girls. of course, the fault does not lie with the fkk but with religion and culture and family. the fkk is their salvation, not the cause of their suffering.
i wish i had more time, i could elaborate further on the issues.
if anyone is interested in discussing this, please send me private messages. batou75, send me a pm with your contact details. would love to exchange some experiences and ideas.
Brazil Specialist
08-19-12, 10:47
Almost 99% of the population of the planet is "FORCED" to work to survive. Here in the USA. We have WalMart. There are some hot chicks (not many but some) who work for WalMart 40 to 60 hours a week and they make minimum wage. They could make much more in a German FKK in one summer and then could fly home and attend college the rest of the year. They won't do this but. Is that the fault of all those Romanian beauties who do?
They won't do this because, of course, Americans are "freaked out" by prostitution and anything sexual in general. Here in America, a woman can be RUINED. RUINED I TELL YOU. By a penis if she allows it inside her from the wrong man. Or with the wrong "thoughts" in her head! LOL. This is the land where the whole "trafficking" myth originated and I'm surprised that Europeans are following our sorry lead on this.
How many chicks working at WalMart have a mean old boyfriend or husband who forces them to work at WalMart and then spends all the money they make there? Yet. No one complains about these "WalMart Pimps".
Is a 17 year old kid who joins the USA Military and gets killed the next year in Afghanistan a "trafficked" individual? Is his fate as dire as that of a hookers? No. His is MUCH worse.
In California, they have a new proposition (PROP 35) which seeks to ban "sexual slavery". Wow. Really? And here I thought such slavery was already banned? Silly me. Not only that. But basically any prostitute can now be classified as a "trafficked sex slave".
All trafficking is women moving across borders. Sometimes legally, sometimes illegally. For the purpose of making money. There is nothing wrong with this.Great comment. Most of the trafficking stories are pure invention by people who don't care about trafficking or women's well being, care only about repressing sexual outlets for men. And as you said, they care even less about men's well being in armies or unhealthy work places.
I recommend everyone to read www.theantifeminist.com
But sex slavery does exist, everywhere. Usually caused by restrictive immigration laws, religious repression, and anti-prostitution laws. Or due to criminal mafia-like institutions, or simply submissive tendencies in women.
And it could be reduced by promoting legal, free prostitution and voluntary help to the professionals (or amateurs) in the field.
Hessen Bub
08-19-12, 11:41
There's a lot of grey and not so much black and white. I've seen a lot of girls in over 12 years of mongering in Germany. I wouldn't compare paysex with any "normal" job, at least not for Germany. US may be different.
HB
So your making another trip to Germany to check out all that the country has to offer, mainly the fkk clubs. Do you mention your travel plans to friends and family? If so, what is their reaction? I've heard everything from 'why Germany, why not Ireland etc'. Whats funny is guys will comment "you should go to Amsterdam, once in your life you have to experience that'. They have no clue what's available in Germany, that in itself is a huge plus in my opinion. This is a question more towards the USA travelor. Do you tell your friend dropping you off at the airport that your going to fuck your way thru Germany?
I've got some friends who make trips down to Costa Rica and Rio, the first destination in my mind really raises red flags. Rio on the other hand might not get scrutinized as much with the beach scene being so widely known.
What do you mean?
fuck your way thru Germany?Business, businesses, strictly business, business only, nothing but business. Are there some brothels in Germany? Maybe, but I newer heard about them.
There's a lot of grey and not so much black and white. I've seen a lot of girls in over 12 years of mongering in Germany. I wouldn't compare paysex with any "normal" job, at least not for Germany. US may be different.
HBI certainly value your opinions since you are so experienced in this field. Myself, I'll be at OASE from 1-3 September for my first FKK experience. In reality. All of my mongering experience (personally) consists of independent escorts and usually high class expensive ones. All of those women I've taken for a minimum of a full day and many times two days. So I have ample opportunity to "feel out" what their motivation for paysex is. Universally with those women I found that money was their number one motivation. In a few, they also liked the sex and enjoyed the "ego boost" of paid sex.
Hopefully my Fkk experience doesn't change this.
This is a question more towards the USA travelor. Do you tell your friend dropping you off at the airport that your going to fuck your way thru Germany?The people who don't have to know my whereabouts, I don't tell them. I'll stop in Germany "in-route" to another destination in Europe for business.
The people who HAVE TO KNOW where I'm at, at all times, I told them "Germany" in order to tour WWII historic sights.
I pay everything in cash. Including rental car and hotel. If I have to communicate. I use SKYPE and with SKYPE. You can tell people you are anywhere in the world besides the place you actually are. I also disable location services on my Iphone.
EDIT: There is only one person in the world I actually share the adventures with - and that is a retired escort in the states who collects research on such things for her writings. She also advises me on how to stay safe and how to deal with escorts and spots scams, gives me condom advice, etc.
Hessen Bub
08-19-12, 16:53
Hopefully my Fkk experience doesn't change this.I don't think it will, if you only have a short snapshot of the FKK-scene. If you get to know the girls better, that'll change. And maybe open you eyes.
HB
There's quite a lot of discussion going on in Germany if the legalization of prostitution did any good to the working girls. Or just to the folks running clubs, brothels etc.
HBFrom talking to Germans that I meet in FKK, I get impression that German society decided that sex is private issue of its citizens and state should not get involved unless child prostitution, trafficking, pimping, taxing is involved to the extent that is possible to control.
Is this debate main street issue that many people are concerned about it or is it more fringe type NGO and other groups who try to justify their existence and their pay checks at the taxpayer expense?
Do you see danger that this type of debate can escalate to the prohibition of the prostitution and emulation of sex prison USA? Man, if that happens I cannot imagine what us, the poor ISG souls, would do with our dependence (if not addiction) to this wonderful vice. Germany is our sanctuary.
there is a huge amount of injustice toward women in the world. ever since the first caveman dragged a women back to his cave for comfort and labor, the inequality has existed. the only reason for guilt is because of the false idea that we can actually do something about it. the ugly truth is the vast majority of women sex victims occur in times of war and genocide (think about the comfort women the japanese exploited in wwii). poverty is also a major contributor. in many areas of the world, girls are sold by their parents into the sex market or to old suitors. is there really a difference between a trafficed woman and a girl that is sold to an uncaring man who beats and [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) her ([CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) is used loosely since in those countries a wife is obligated to server her husband)? why do we not cry about those women?
Hessen Bub
08-19-12, 19:02
Why do we not cry about those women?Because this is a paysex board?
From talking to Germans that I meet in FKK, I get impression that German society decided that sex is private issue of its citizens and state should not get involved unless child prostitution, trafficking, pimping, taxing is involved to the extent that is possible to control.
Do you see danger that this type of debate can escalate to the prohibition of the prostitutionThe idea was to make prostitution a job like every other job. That might work for GERMAN women (not given the still existing social stigma). But not for women coming to Germany for economical reasons or being trafficked / pimped.
The circumstances, under which the women are now working, are far better than they would be with illegal prostitution, it's open, in the public, legal. It's allowed to provide rooms and security and medical checks for women.
There have been discussions about prohibition of prostitution. I don't think it's going to happen.
HB
I came to Palace about before the evening shift of new girls arrived, and I got to witness an interesting scene. A nice Mercedes AMG model parked outside (where you see the taxis normally) and inside it I get a glimpse of two tattooed gorillas. One EE girl exits the car and goes to the club entrance as I walk in the same direction. And if that was not enough. Another car, a BMW parks close by and a new girl exits one of the rear doors. Inside it are two other muscle guys. Are these the BF,"managers" or pimps? Whatever you call them. I don't we need to be naive about it. Surely being a pimp must be a wonderful occupation.
This you see at all clubs. Once I was waiting for my cab after closing time in World and was privileged to see a whole parade of Beemers, Mercs and Audi's drive onto the driveway (the previously empty parking, was suddenly full). Not long afterwards. As my cabbie was making a U-turn) , about half the evenings line up walked up to their 'ride'.
Burma Jones
08-20-12, 21:01
This is a question more towards the USA travelor. Do you tell your friend dropping you off at the airport that your going to fuck your way thru Germany?I was honest the first few times and told friends I was going to Germany. Then after the third or fourth trip, the questions started of why go to the same place over and over again? They didn't understand that by walking into clubs, I was also visiting Romania, Hungary, Poland, and lots of other Eastern European locales. So I've just started lying. For my next trip, I've told them I'm headed to Syria. Of course they know it's a lie and I tell them tongue in cheek but they get the clue to stay out of my business. And thankfully my job doesn't require any checking in once my vacation time begins.
Burma Jones
08-20-12, 21:12
Are these the BF,"managers" or pimps? Whatever you call them. I don't we need to be naive about it. Surely being a pimp must be a wonderful occupation.Thankfully, they were just the transportation and then they take off. Had horrible situations here in the US where a stripper's husband, BF, pimp would sit in the back of the room and watch every movement and conversation their girl would have and in some instances, confront customers.
Of course, FKK clubs couldn't allow such things to happen? Have you ever heard of girls dating or sleeping with management off the books? I remember the show about the Bunny Ranch in Vegas and the owner had obviously slept with most of the workers and would give opinions about their habits.
Hi all mohab here name changed. Very simply I would like to know where you all would recommend going on either the Monday night or Tuesday all day on the day that automechanika starts.If you're still interested in going to Mainhattan at Tuesday Sep. 11, then there's a chance that we'll finally meet. I can't PM your new profile, but I would probably try to hit Mainhattan at around 5 PM, or as soon as I'm finished at the Messe. Mainhattan is better than ever BTW! I had more fun there than in Oase and Palace this week.
Hessen Bub
08-21-12, 06:59
Reports on Mainhattan on German boards are talking about few girls and mixed service levels.
HB
Reports on Mainhattan on German boards are talking about few girls and mixed service levels.
HBI don't care much for reports on a board, when I've been there myself! There were not many girls there, but the service level among those I went with was ranging from good to very good. It's not all about quantity, but more about quality. Why don't you go and give us a decent report HB?
WreckDiver
08-21-12, 17:52
Because this is a paysex board?
The idea was to make prostitution a job like every other job. That might work for GERMAN women (not given the still existing social stigma). But not for women coming to Germany for economical reasons or being trafficked / pimped.
The circumstances, under which the women are now working, are far better than they would be with illegal prostitution, it's open, in the public, legal. It's allowed to provide rooms and security and medical checks for women.
There have been discussions about prohibition of prostitution. I don't think it's going to happen.
HBThis is a pay sex board please move this comments to morality of prostitution section.
There is a huge amount of injustice toward women in the world.There is a Gigantic amount of injustice toward men in the USA but I think this forum is about having sex in FKK clubs.
Hessen Bub
08-22-12, 08:56
Why don't you go and give us a decent report HB?Because I know some of the guys reporting on Mainhattan personally and I can rely on their opinion. And there's so much pussy at Sharks, Oase, World. Why go to Mainhattan? Since the FKK2 card is not available anymore I didn't go.
HB
StarletVoyager
08-22-12, 21:42
I will be in mainhatten on 11th September from 11am to 630pm then straight off to the airport for my flight home. Can you get there any earlier that day? Also do you have any plans for the previous week?
Nice one mo
Hello guys (and girls)
Are there any FKK clubs in or around Berlin, other than Artemis?
I will be in Berlin around the IFA-fair so I'm sure that Artemis will be stuffed (no pun intended). So I'm looking for any alternative to the great A.
Thanks in advance,
Mtech
I will be in mainhatten on 11th September from 11am to 630pm then straight off to the airport for my flight home. Can you get there any earlier that day? Also do you have any plans for the previous week?
Nice one moMohab, will have to see if that would be possible. I'll be at the messe with 5 collegues, but I might be able to escape around 3 PM. Since I can't PM you, could we make the jacuzzi our meeting point, at about 4 PM? I took a cab from Mainhattan to the airport last time so count about 40 euros for the cab ride. Oh, and that's my first day at the messe so I won't be in FRA before 11.sep
Angus Magee
08-23-12, 19:52
will be in Berlin around the IFA-fair so I'm sure that Artemis will be stuffed (no pun intended). So I'm looking for any alternative to the great A.Sorry to say no other FKK in Berlin, and you are right, the IFA does swell the Artemis crowds. Artemis is still manageable though if you go earlier in the day, as RB points out in the Artemis thread recently.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2588-FKK-Artemis-Berlin&p=1318519&viewfull=1#post1318519
There are also plenty of other venues in Berlin such as bordellos and some sleazier GB clubs etc. Have look on the Berlin thread where there is plenty of info or on my Blog which details all such Berlin action.
http://www.angusmagee.com/
AM
Sorry to say no other FKK in BerlinThanks for the reply Angus, was just hoping for a lost gem. Wishful thinking I guess!
Mtech
StarletVoyager
08-23-12, 23:38
Thats fine 4pm jacuzzi. Look forward to finally meeting a fellow ISG'er. If I'm tied up with a hunny and a little late just hang on I will for sure be in the club! I'm banking on mainhatten as I've never been there and its close proximity to frank. Intl. Do you think I can expect ahigher than usual girl lineup with regards to numbers and attractiveness levels during the day due to automechanika? I will subscribe sooner than later for pming etc probably when I return.
See you soon and thanks.
Hello guys (and girls)
Are there any FKK clubs in or around Berlin, other than Artemis?
I will be in Berlin around the IFA-fair so I'm sure that Artemis will be stuffed (no pun intended). So I'm looking for any alternative to the great A.
Thanks in advance,
Mtech90% of people in Berlin for Messe, have dinner with customers or suppliers or friends. Before 10 pm the club should be only crowded, but from 10 pm will be a big problem.
Happened to me times ago in Koln, during messe time. I went in a club (PHG) after dinner with some friends, and there were any girl available, all busy.
Artemis its about 400% bigger than PHG, but in Koln area there are almost 5 good FKK. 5 decent, but a lot of different alternatives. If you can, when you'll leave the fair,
Go straight to the club. Shower directly there and you'd have at least 2 session before the club explode.
Have fun.
Banana Boi
08-24-12, 16:53
Does oktoberfest affect the nrw region fkk's? More guys? Girls going to Munich to work?
Thats fine 4pm jacuzzi. Look forward to finally meeting a fellow ISG'er. If I'm tied up with a hunny and a little late just hang on I will for sure be in the club! I'm banking on mainhatten as I've never been there and its close proximity to frank. Intl. Do you think I can expect ahigher than usual girl lineup with regards to numbers and attractiveness levels during the day due to automechanika? I will subscribe sooner than later for pming etc probably when I return.
See you soon and thanks.That goes for you as well, I might not be there exactly at 4 PM due to different reasons, but the jacuzzi is a great place to stay when you want to relax from the birds LOL. I would expect a stronger line-up than usual, as many girls will come from other areas / clubs towards Mainhattan / Palace. Automechanika closes for audience at around 6 PM, so before this time it should be relatively calm (for men).
If I don't turn up within 4:20 PM, then enjoy yourself, as I could always be hung up (even if I try my best not to). C ya!
Does oktoberfest affect the nrw region fkk's? More guys? Girls going to Munich to work?Octoberfest does not really affect clubs or girls migration pattern regardless of geographic location.
I was approached by a girl, name remains unknown and I won't reveal at what club. You can PM me for details if you wonder. She said that she didn't approve of me writing reports on the "Internet" about her. I was a bit stunned as this has never happened to me. And I was equally a bit surprised, because this girl had only been given favourable reviews from my part, but I guessed she didn't like that her interaction with me should be sketched into history at ISG. To be honest I don't understand why she was concerned about it, as reports fade quickly away at ISG. In any way I felt a bit bad about the situation, and even if she wasn't angry with me, she had pinpointed me as a 'snitch' as she knew that certain details was known only to me. Details that I had revealed on the forum. I instantly felt a bit reluctant to report due to this reason, but what's your view about it? Maybe I just realised why certain veterans on the board rarely or never report any more? So if you wondered: girls do read ISG and other sites for that matter. So my advice is to be aware when you write details. I mean this probably don't mean so much for our American friends that get to an FKK once or twice a year, but for guys like me that can literally be here every month or so, it could be a challenge.
I will probably not go into too much details about this specific situation, but feel free to give your thoughts or even PM me if it's called for more privacy.
Angus Magee
08-25-12, 20:03
I will probably not go into too much details about this specific situation, but feel free to give your thoughts or even PM me if it's called for more privacy.I had a similar situation a while back at Artemis with one of my favorite girls. She asked me and I did not deny writing reports though we did have a difference in that I felt the reports about which she was really upset were not mine. I mean I have written about her but a long time ago and with out a whole lot of detail.
I did not dismiss her concerns though and we talked for some time about it. What I ended up understanding (and I am sure some guys will label this as BS coming from "just a wh*re") was that she did feel a certain type of intimacy with me and regarded what we did in the room as private. That she does the same or similar in the room with many other was beside the point to her. She said that she expected more or less the same discretion that I would give any other woman.
In the end I promised her that I would no longer divulge and details (a moot point as after the first review I rarely do anyway) and she agreed that my mentioning her as a good session was ok. That is where it stands, I still do session from time to time with her and when appropriate mention her as one of my favorites at Artemis. I also am a whole lot more careful with giving any graphic details in general. This just feels better to me.
No doubt some guys might disagree with this and some guys will continue in the Penthouse Forum style of review. That is up to them and I have no problem with it, though I do tend to skim those reviews unless very well written. For me one can very easily say that the session was good, the girl present and responsive, without giving a gynecological play by play.
AM
Hi,
Some months since I visited FKK Living Room in Kaarst. I have always enjoyed my stays there. The girls have mostly been great. Not a great lineup like Oase and Palace, but always good. Service have most of the times been good, and CIM or CIF is only 25 euro extra. The sofa area is nice and I like bringing a girl there and talk to her while deciding if I will go for a session or not. The facilities downstairs are also good, and I like relaxing in the jacuzzi in between the sessions.
Not so many posts about this place recently. Is the place still going strong?
I will probably go to Frankfurt for three days in September or October, and not sure if it is worth the hassle of going to Kaarst and spend 1 day at LR?
Cheers.
I was approached by a girl, name remains unknown and I won't reveal at what club. You can PM me for details if you wonder. She said that she didn't approve of me writing reports on the "Internet" about her. I was a bit stunned as this has never happened to me. And I was equally a bit surprised, because this girl had only been given favourable reviews from my part, but I guessed she didn't like that her interaction with me should be sketched into history at ISG. To be honest I don't understand why she was concerned about it, as reports fade quickly away at ISG. In any way I felt a bit bad about the situation, and even if she wasn't angry with me, she had pinpointed me as a 'snitch' as she knew that certain details was known only to me. Details that I had revealed on the forum. I instantly felt a bit reluctant to report due to this reason, but what's your view about it?It's hard to tell without you posting who it was and what exactly she was upset about. You know. If she told you, for instance, that she had a very bad childhood and was beaten by her father. Then I don't think you should post it. Very personal details like that. I wouldn't post. Sometimes a working girl will open up and tell you very personal details about herself or her private life. That you shouldn't post in my opinion.
Other than that. It's good to remember that most of these girls ARE NOT using their real name anyway (or rather. They're idiots if they are). So there's no way you can violate their actual "privacy" here when you just reveal the details of the sexual encounter. It's hard for me to get upset about a working girl who's outraged about someone posting details under an assumed name that she happens to use.
I did not dismiss her concerns though and we talked for some time about it. What I ended up understanding (and I am sure some guys will label this as BS coming from "just a wh*re") was that she did feel a certain type of intimacy with me and regarded what we did in the room as private. That she does the same or similar in the room with many other was beside the point to her. She said that she expected more or less the same discretion that I would give any other woman.
AMDon't you think that the girls share intimate details about you with the other girls working in the club?"He seems to have a lot of cash and tipped me generously"."He cums real fast so get extras out of him"."He fucked me for 45 minutes and it wasn't fun and I got only 100 e's.". Etc.
Angus Magee
08-25-12, 22:15
Don't you think that the girls share intimate details about you with the other girls working in the club?"He seems to have a lot of cash and tipped me generously"."He cums real fast so get extras out of him"."He fucked me for 45 minutes and it wasn't fun and I got only 100 e's.". Etc.Perhaps they do. That is for them to do or not do as they see fit. I don't make decisions on my behaviour based on what others do but what I feel is right. As I say-I am sure many here will not agree with this as the girls are "just who*es". But It is also my prerogative to do as I feel.
AM
Banana Boi
08-25-12, 22:46
Don't you think that the girls share intimate details about you with the other girls working in the club?"More so for negative things warning their friends not to go with bad 'dates'.
It's hard to tell without you posting who it was and what exactly she was upset about.You are clearly missing the point here. It was nothing personal about her life, just things I said to her, that nobody else would know. It's really not relevant to know who she was or what it was. She was not outraged either, if your read the post. She just pointed out that she would not have things about her written on a forum. But I've moved past it, because even if the girls speak among themselves, there are so many clicks and gangs of girls. In the end, money talks!
Love Palace
08-26-12, 00:20
I was approached by a girl, name remains unknown and I won't reveal at what club. You can PM me for details if you wonder. She said that she didn't approve of me writing reports on the "Internet" about her. I was a bit stunned as this has never happened to me. And I was equally a bit surprised, because this girl had only been given favourable reviews from my part, but I guessed she didn't like that her interaction with me should be sketched into history at ISG. To be honest I don't understand why she was concerned about it, as reports fade quickly away at ISG. In any way I felt a bit bad about the situation, and even if she wasn't angry with me, she had pinpointed me as a 'snitch' as she knew that certain details was known only to me. Details that I had revealed on the forum. I instantly felt a bit reluctant to report due to this reason, but what's your view about it? Maybe I just realised why certain veterans on the board rarely or never report any more? So if you wondered: girls do read ISG and other sites for that matter. So my advice is to be aware when you write details. I mean this probably don't mean so much for our American friends that get to an FKK once or twice a year, but for guys like me that can literally be here every month or so, it could be a challenge.
I will probably not go into too much details about this specific situation, but feel free to give your thoughts or even PM me if it's called for more privacy.Hi Sucker17,
She was not upset with you. Only finding herself naive using her real name and you mentioned her birthday. No hard feelings. I think she is a great girl using another name now.
Unless you are in a big hurry, I would use public transport to most of these places, possibly with short taxi rides, leaving more Euros for the girls. Download "DB Navigator" App to your iphone or similar, for all the directions of how to get there. Unless I have a very cumbersome suitcase, or are running very late, I always use train to and from Frankfurt airport. Public transport option may well be limited between 12PM and 4AM. I do not attend at those times.
I guess I have more time available than those on a lightning visit to Frankfurt, but can understand the desire to absolutely maximise time at the FKK.
BTW, train station ticket machines do have English option.Say you have a three day layover, you add up public transportation and taxi rates and its almost identical to renting a car and the gas needed to drive said car around for those 3 days. You'll pay less if you only do Palace and Mainhattan but if you need to do Oase and World then a car is the only way to go. And how many here can say they travel all the way to Germany and then leave the clubs before 12pm? Not many.
Now if Oase and World were placed closer to train stations, public transportation would be more practical. As it is, taxi rates add up much faster than renting your own wheels.
You are clearly missing the point here. It was nothing personal about her life, just things I said to her, that nobody else would know. It's really not relevant to know who she was or what it was. She was not outraged either, if your read the post. She just pointed out that she would not have things about her written on a forum. But I've moved past it, because even if the girls speak among themselves, there are so many clicks and gangs of girls. In the end, money talks!Sounds like you have resolved the situation so I'm a bit amiss as to why you even asked for anyone else's opinion.
So my advice is to be aware when you write details. I mean this probably don't mean so much for our American friends that get to an FKK once or twice a year, but for guys like me that can literally be here every month or so, it could be a challenge.
I will probably not go into too much details about this specific situation, but feel free to give your thoughts or even PM me if it's called for more privacy.I don't think you take your own advice very well, mate. As you posted this in Palace forum yesterday just before you posted the above statement here.
Kelly. 28 years old, black from Senegal.
I was pretty certain I had read some favourable reports about Kelly before. She has her hair cut quite short and even though she's rumoured to speak French, it was not impressing. I tried to speak French with her, but she gave up after a while and wanted to continue in English. No problem, I wasn't there to discuss the new French president, Hollande anyway! She said she did all kind of extras and asked me if I wanted anal or CIM. I declined the offer, but said that I might want CIM, but it depends on the session, and that in that case I would let her know. So we found ourselves a room and the fun began. We did some DFK, but clearly this was not her speciality, so we made it short. Kelly like doing her BBBJ in a slow pace. This is not a problem for me, but I had to ask her to increase the pace a bit after a while. I guess it all depends on what each guy prefer? The big issue I had with Kelly was not her lack of good BJ skills, but her way of scamming customers. We ended up in a 69 at the end of our session, and while I had not had sex for about a week, I had the urge of coming, when she started applying oil and stroking my junior. She didn't suck the cock or anything, so I guessed I was safe when I realeased my load. What I didn't anticipate was that she quickly approached junior and mouthed the cum! I tried to give her 50 euros, but she told me I had CIMed. Excuse me, that was not what we had agreed upon. But technically speaking she was right and I didn't want to make a dispute about it. She knew I would be back within a couple of weeks, and could have made a good impression. Instead she maximised her profit by this instant CIM-scam.
Overall rating: 4/10.
Repeat: Hell no way!I mean. That report there is very detailed and if "Kelly" reads it. She's going to know it came from you because of the "CIM" snafu that you were displeased with. By the way. I thought it was a HOT story so don't get me wrong on that.
I'm just wondering if you've decided to continue posting details or not?
Say you have a three day Layover, you add up public transportation and taxi rates and its almost identical to renting a car and the gas needed to drive said car around for those 3 days. You'll pay less if you only do Palace and Mainhattan but if you need to do Oase and World then a car is the only way to go. And how many here can say they travel all the way to Germany and then leave the clubs before 12pm? Not many.
Now if Oase and World were placed closer to train stations, public transportation would be more practical. As it is, taxi rates add up much faster than renting your own wheels.This may be the case for the short term visitor, but what about longer stays, say 8-10 days?
I've been looking into renting a motorcycle next trip. The principles are the same. I have to factor in daily charge for the vehicle + mileage charge after the free kilometers run out + the high cost of European fuel. I like to stay in a hotel, so parking is required. Being an infrequent visitor, I like to look at the scenery, but I'll have to pay attention to the road / signs / other drivers. Otherwise, I may have a prolonged headache (or worse!) from a European car accident / legal wrangling. Renting may work for short layovers, but for longer stays, no thanks, I prefer to buy my ticket, pay the cabbie & enjoy the view until I am safely enjoying the view in the club!
Just MHO.
Myr.
Drive Safely! ;)
This may be the case for the short term visitor, but what about longer stays, say 8-10 days?
I've been looking into renting a motorcycle next trip. The principles are the same. I have to factor in daily charge for the vehicle + mileage charge after the free kilometers run out + the high cost of European fuel. I like to stay in a hotel, so parking is required. Being an infrequent visitor, I like to look at the scenery, but I'll have to pay attention to the road / signs / other drivers. Otherwise, I may have a prolonged headache (or worse!) from a European car accident / legal wrangling. Renting may work for short layovers, but for longer stays, no thanks, I prefer to buy my ticket, pay the cabbie & enjoy the view until I am safely enjoying the view in the club!
Just MHO.
Myr.
Drive Safely! .Can't answer for a motorcycle but on my last trip, my car rental per day was around 18 euro's per day. Again M, the question is what costs more, not what you prefer to view on the way to the club. The argument S put forward was saving money for the girls, my argument is 20 euro's per day in most case's beats the time it takes using public transportation and the cost of the taxi's almost anytime except for visiting Palace and Mainhattan.
Arctic: When it comes to Kelly, I really hope she reads every word of it! And I have left out a lot of other details from my trip!
Can't answer for a motorcycle but on my last trip, my car rental per day was around 18 euro's per day. Again M, the question is what costs more, not what you prefer to view on the way to the club. The argument S put forward was saving money for the girls, my argument is 20 euro's per day in most case's beats the time it takes using public transportation and the cost of the taxi's almost anytime except for visiting Palace and Mainhattan.With which rental car company did you get such a low price?
I ususally rent from airport to airport to airport, but got never anything less than roughly 50 E per day. All icluded.
Thnaks
With which rental car company did you get such a low price?
I ususally rent from airport to airport to airport, but got never anything less than roughly 50 E per day. All icluded.
ThnaksIf you drop off a car at another airport your going to pay alot more than the standard rate. I'm a big fan of Avis, use their 'avis basic' rate which works out to 22 euro's per day if you rent for a week. I've used many different sites, easycar, orbitz, kemwel and holiday auto to name just a few. I always fly into and out of the same airport.
If you drop off a car at another airport your going to pay alot more than the standard rate. I'm a big fan of Avis, use their 'avis basic' rate which works out to 22 euro's per day if you rent for a week. I've used many different sites, easycar, orbitz, kemwel and holiday auto to name just a few. I always fly into and out of the same airport.I just rented a car from Avis based on B'man's advice and the rate was very good and it was very easy to reserve. We'll see how it goes on Saturday when I go to pick it up. But I don't anticipate any problems. I'm just very glad I read the forums and learned about the problems with Terstappen. Or whatever they're called. And stayed away from them!
Would someone please confirm that if you rent a car from Avis, would Avis force you to buy its own insurance? I mean. If my Master card covers insurance, would Avis accept it? I know that other companies like Budget or Dollar kind of play tricks and force you to buy insurance which is a ripped off and do NOT accept credit card insurance coverage.
How much would Avis charge you to add an additional driver? How does Avis compare to Sixt? I've never rented from Avis but thinking about it.
Thank you for your help.
Burma Jones
08-28-12, 18:41
Would someone please confirm that if you rent a car from Avis, would Avis force you to buy its own insurance? I mean. If my Master card covers insurance, would Avis accept it? I know that other companies like Budget or Dollar kind of play tricks and force you to buy insurance which is a ripped off and do NOT accept credit card insurance coverage.
How much would Avis charge you to add an additional driver? How does Avis compare to Sixt? I've never rented from Avis but thinking about it.
Thank you for your help.Investor,
I rented with Avis in Dusseldorf in Dec 2010 and Frankfurt in Feb 2011. I am a preferred customer so my preferences are set up to decline all insurance. I remember the question being posed as "Just to check, you don't want to purchase any insurance, correct?" I am covered by Visa plus I purchase a separate policy through Travel Guard for $9 a day. It's definitely cheaper than the $20-40 per day policies they offer.
I think the additional driver is a flat fee, around $25.
With both of those previous rentals in the winter period, the costs of Avis vs. Sixt was about $115 cheaper for Avis (strictly due to the winter tires). However, Sixt was $200 cheaper for a trip planned in September this time. The other reason went with Sixt was more optional car categories. You can really pinpoint what you want. Plus I read that cheaper rates can be found by reserving through the US site sixt. Com vs the German site sixt. De.
In December, Avis originally tried to put me in a minivan (I am a solo traveler) which I got them to switch to a Seat hatchback. In February, they put me in a Ford Ruga. Both times I had chosen their intermediate class.
Burma
Investor
I have never had any problems of any sort with Avis.
By the way. You mention there are problems with Budget or Dollar. There is a serious confusion on the trip advisor threads about this. The problems are with DOLLAR and THRIFTY, which are franchised out to Terstappen. They are horrific. Budget however is owned by Avis and I regularly use them with absolutely no problem.
Trouble free companies are Hertz, Avis, Budget, Europcar and Sixt in my experience.
Advantage provide very old cars but I have not had any dispute with them.
Dollar and Thrifty appear to use every possible trick in the book to get money off you. They offer very low prices but, in my experience, start asking for extras on insurance etc, and falsely allege damage, and make up repair costs far in excess of any actual repair (always assuming they carry out the claimed repairs). They have a whole host of complainants
Doubt its just a flat fee for a second driver, its usually a per day fee that will add up fast. And if your going to use your credit card's insurance, you might want to check with them on their coverage of a second driver.
Don't assume your credit card will give you coverage, google what their coverage will actually provide and what their limits are.
Avis's dot com website also states that you are locked into the euro quote no matter what the exchange rate fluctuations. But they also allow you to prepay for your car rental, wait till a nice drop and then prepay your car.
For Automatics and High end cars, I tend to use Europcar. Always give the best deal and I get to earm my Miles and Mores points too.
For example, my trip next week for a 6 day rental will cost me about €325 for a BMW 3 series / Merc C Class Automatic.
Using discount code 51385565. There's only a €15 sur-charge is you return the cars to a different location.
Hertz and Sixt are quoting me €500 for 6 days.
Remember to enter your address as Germany (use club or hotel address is suffice) and notice further savings.
Doubt its just a flat fee for a second driver, its usually a per day fee that will add up fast. And if your going to use your credit card's insurance, you might want to check with them on their coverage of a second driver.
Don't assume your credit card will give you coverage, google what their coverage will actually provide and what their limits are.
Avis's dot com website also states that you are locked into the euro quote no matter what the exchange rate fluctuations. But they also allow you to prepay for your car rental, wait till a nice drop and then prepay your car.
I've got a buddy who's interested in checking out both the clubs and visiting some WWII sites or museums, anybody have any information they can provide?
Rhino Serious
08-29-12, 19:33
One girl told me the story about Black Saturday. This is how some girls are broken in to this business, mostly the forced and trafficked girls. To learn how always to smile and treat customers right, the pimp ties up the girl, and then lets some guys have repeated sex with her over 24 hours, vaginal and anal, and she has to smile the whole time or they beat her. The girl gets no break no food no water just 24 hours of constant forced sex. The girls commonly has black marks or bruises on her lower back after this, hence the term Black Saturday.
This story fucked me up bad and it took me several days to get it out of my head, if this is even half true. It shows how bad this business is and what some girls have to endure to give "us" our pleasure.Your post messed me up a bit too.
I have chatted a bit with FKK women (to tell the truth I enjoy talking and looking more than actually doing it. And I guess they enjoy an easy 50 euros.) Nobody hinted at trafficking.
One, from Hungary (she said) at FKK Oase, said what more can a girl want. She has cheap accommodation, doesn't need to buy clothes, and does what she enjoys.
Another, again at Oase, from Italy (she said) but of African origin, said she comes for this business 3 months in a year. She seemed completely relaxed about it and, apparently, enjoyed it thoroughly (she's probably a great actress, but I'm fairly sure she didn't hate it. We had a great seesion).
Another, from Romania and at Palace, was a beautician by training and was saving to start a parlor. She looked a good bit older than most of the women there, and had an amply tattooed body and a rather small and wrinkled upper half. Nevertheless, there was something about her that made me go to a room with her, and I don't regret it. She, too, was doing this entirely out of choice and, she said, chooses the men carefully. She rejects the sort of "bullshit" that a lot of internet-porn-fed men want.
But one, from Romania and at Oase, did bother me. She was young (20 she said, probably truthfully). She did not seem very happy with this profession. We ended up mostly talking, though it finished with a hand job. She said the business is like a drug: she makes four times what she used to earlier (as a waiter) and it is impossible to say no to the money. She said it was entirely voluntary, and assuming she was telling the truth, what bothered me was that this business may pay her well, but only for another 10 years. And then what?
Anyway, I have only been to these places a couple of times and my experience is limited. It seemed to me that all the girls are there of their own accord; if pimping and violence happens behind the scenes, that would certainly bother me a lot.
Dollar and Thrifty appear to use every possible trick in the book to get money off you. They offer very low prices but, in my experience, start asking for extras on insurance etc, and falsely allege damage, and make up repair costs far in excess of any actual repair (always assuming they carry out the claimed repairs). They have a whole host of complainantsSounds like some of the 'sharks' in the clubs! HaHa!
If the Ladies get tired of working the clubs, maybe they could change careers & become car rental agents! LOL.
Myr.
Banana Boi
08-29-12, 21:51
I would add Enterprise as a good rental car option.
My understanding was that Gold cards cover vehicle damage but not liability. This is what I got when I called Amex. Are they wrong? Would love to save up to 15 euros per day on liability insurance.
Neutron Flux
08-30-12, 01:07
Sounds like some of the 'sharks' in the clubs! HaHa!
If the Ladies get tired of working the clubs, maybe they could change careers & become car rental agents! LOL.
Myr.There are quite a few similarities. Also, when you get a car, almost every company will try to upsell you various insurance deals, that none ever needs. Just politely decline. The big companies that were mentioned by Investor will not try to scam you though, and there are also many good local ones. I found the main difference between Avis and Sixt is simply that Sixt have many nice, big outlets at all the major transportation hubs, and that's why they're more expensive.
UltraHappy
08-30-12, 01:31
I would add Enterprise as a good rental car option.
My understanding was that Gold cards cover vehicle damage but not liability. This is what I got when I called Amex. Are they wrong? Would love to save up to 15 euros per day on liability insurance.I recommend reading the T&Cs of your card Amex carefully. The usual Amex card only covers insurance for "USA operators" where the charges are denominated in US dollars. That is usually not the case for most German car rental agencies. In my experience, the car rental agencies reject the usual credit card rental car insurance for most credit cards. From the travel forums, I've read, there are only a couple of specific cards that the car rental agencies accept in lieu of requiring the CDW insurance. Even then, I read that you have to provide a letter issued from your card company and sometimes, the people at the counter won't even accept that.
I usually get the CDW with $0 excess coverage (I. E. In other words no deductible). It's a rather pricey option compared to getting the CDW with an 800 Euro or 1, 300 Euro deductible, but I just don't want to worry about it. At least this way, I can bring them back a smashed up car and it's their problem, not mine. Though, perhaps in the long run, I'm just wasting money on the CDW insurance?
I usually rent from Sixt and have had really good experiences with them, but I will probably start shopping around more given everyone's recommendations here. When I compared prices last year, they were the most affordable (other than Dollar / Thrifty who I avoid due to their bad reputation in Germany according to the Internet).
I am interested to try the tip about using a German address to get a further rate discount.
The French
08-30-12, 08:54
I am a little confused now. I planned to spend 2 nights in the Dus / koln area and had targeted GT et PHG from all the comments on this board.
They don't rate that high in your ranking.
I know this rating and some others given by others were kind of focusing on infrastructure but can you give me some advice on where to really go for a first time. The top three?
I am first interested current quality of lineup (now that vacations are over)
And quality of infrastructure and cleanliness right after of course.
So far I have been to
Palace : very happy about it.
Oase : good lineup but average facility.
Paradise : great facility but average lineup.
Sakura : good facility and below average lineup.
So basically I am looking for the higher end of the market if it exists in this area.
1. Acapulco (no competition) = Agree, Room 5 about 30 sq meters covered in mirrors from ceiling to walls. Reminds of the porn scence in American Psycho
2. Samya (way above than #3)
3. Villa Vertigo (from here and below the difference is not significant)
4. Golden Time, Vienna. Jacuzzi Rooms are v good.
5. World.
6. Golden Time, Bruggen. Cabin 15, outside is their best room.
Your post messed me up a bit too.
I have chatted a bit with FKK women (to tell the truth I enjoy talking and looking more than actually doing it. And I guess they enjoy an easy 50 euros.) Nobody hinted at trafficking.
One, from Hungary (she said) at FKK Oase, said what more can a girl want. She has cheap accommodation, doesn't need to buy clothes, and does what she enjoys.
Another, again at Oase, from Italy (she said) but of African origin, said she comes for this business 3 months in a year. She seemed completely relaxed about it and, apparently, enjoyed it thoroughly (she's probably a great actress, but I'm fairly sure she didn't hate it. We had a great seesion).
Another, from Romania and at Palace, was a beautician by training and was saving to start a parlor. She looked a good bit older than most of the women there, and had an amply tattooed body and a rather small and wrinkled upper half. Nevertheless, there was something about her that made me go to a room with her, and I don't regret it. She, too, was doing this entirely out of choice and, she said, chooses the men carefully. She rejects the sort of "bullshit" that a lot of internet-porn-fed men want.
But one, from Romania and at Oase, did bother me. She was young (20 she said, probably truthfully). She did not seem very happy with this profession. We ended up mostly talking, though it finished with a hand job. She said the business is like a drug: she makes four times what she used to earlier (as a waiter) and it is impossible to say no to the money. She said it was entirely voluntary, and assuming she was telling the truth, what bothered me was that this business may pay her well, but only for another 10 years. And then what?
Anyway, I have only been to these places a couple of times and my experience is limited. It seemed to me that all the girls are there of their own accord; if pimping and violence happens behind the scenes, that would certainly bother me a lot.I used to think the same way. Until I chatted with a young Bulgarian girl, I think it was at Mainhattan, and casually asked her if she knew which job she would do when accepting coming to Germany. She just answered: "no". Does not mean she was coerced in the job or else, but shows that probably most of them end up in FKK by defaut, not choice.
Of course, a fair number are also there happily and for all the good reasons, but let us not be fooled.
Hessen Bub
08-30-12, 16:34
Anyway, I have only been to these places a couple of times and my experience is limited. It seemed to me that all the girls are there of their own accord; if pimping and violence happens behind the scenes, that would certainly bother me a lot.Sorry to bother you, but most of the EE girls are not there because they chose to. What do you think they tell a stranger, a customer? What do you want to hear from them? The truth? A big turn down, when you are there to have fun?
HB
I was in fkk world 2 days ago and was a bit disappointed although I was able to find a real stunner. I am wondering if one fkk has a better line up than the others at the moment?
Sorry to bother you, but most of the EE girls are not there because they chose to. What do you think they tell a stranger, a customer? What do you want to hear from them? The truth? A big turn down, when you are there to have fun?
HBWhere do you get your information then if you can't rely on what the girl says? I mean if you can't trust the girl when she says she's there voluntarily then how do you conclude with certainty she's being forced?
And no. I don't consider a poor economic situation to be a form of coercion. Since almost all of us are economically "forced" to work some way or other.
I was in fkk world 2 days ago and was a bit disappointed although I was able to find a real stunner. I am wondering if one fkk has a better line up than the others at the moment?Don't forget that the line up at a given club might well be weak on a Tues, but strong on a Fri or Sat night.
Line ups at FKKs during August are fragile by definition, so you have to stack the deck a bit in your favour during these months esp by hitting them on prime-time days like weekends to ensure the best selection. Things will get better on the earlier days of the week very soon, now that September and major Messe events are soon to be upon us.
O
Hessen Bub
08-30-12, 20:11
When you're around long enough you get information from girls you've know for years, you see certsin signs and you've heard some stories a dozen times.
Back to line-up at World: Wednesday was good for an August weekday. It's vacation time, both for girls and boys. Mondays are weak at World. Some girls come on Tuesday (lingerie day) and Wednesday (3for2). Then they take Thursday off to be ready for the weekend. Fridays amd Saturdays are full, disco like atmosphere, lots of young guys drinking their ass off for 65€. Cheaper than any discotheque in Frankfurt.
HB
when you're around long enough you get information from girls you've know for years, you see certsin signs and you've heard some stories a dozen times.
hblike what kind of signs, hb? you keep saying that trafficking is a problem and you're absolutely sure it exists and, indeed. you've stated that most of the ee girls are forced (not there by choice). you've stated that "black saturdays" where girls are horrifically raped for 24 hours straight is "more common in the fkk's that most think". so what specific evidence do you have of this? you've done very good in indicting everyone else who's posted other views. but you have never backed up your own view.
i really don't understand how anyone who's as sure that this sex slavery exists so predominately in the fkk's can continue to patronize them. how do you resolve this with your own sense of morality?
the [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) scaremongers want your tax dollars to fight this imaginary problem. they label every woman who's crossed a border to work as a "trafficked individual" or "slave". anyone who transports such a woman (such as taxi drivers in new york city now) are labelled "traffickers" when most of them are simply aiding these women to move around by transporting them and / or arranging for legitimate or false working permits.
i have no doubt that there are some cases of forced sex slavery. but that is an extremely small worldwide problem.
any monger who believes all the myths of the usa state department with regards to sex trafficking. should not be engaged in this activity. it doesn't say much for you as a person to believe that these women are being exploited while at the same time you contribute to exploiting them. at the same time. though i do not believe the myths. i try to keep my eyes open to the possibility by looking for real evidence of it.
i haven't found any so hb, if you have some. please share it with us!
I recommend reading the T&Cs of your card Amex carefully. The usual Amex card only covers insurance for "USA operators" where the charges are denominated in US dollars. That is usually not the case for most German car rental agencies. In my experience, the car rental agencies reject the usual credit card rental car insurance for most credit cards. From the travel forums, I've read, there are only a couple of specific cards that the car rental agencies accept in lieu of requiring the CDW insurance. Even then, I read that you have to provide a letter issued from your card company and sometimes, the people at the counter won't even accept that.
I usually get the CDW with $0 excess coverage (I. E. In other words no deductible). It's a rather pricey option compared to getting the CDW with an 800 Euro or 1, 300 Euro deductible, but I just don't want to worry about it. At least this way, I can bring them back a smashed up car and it's their problem, not mine. Though, perhaps in the long run, I'm just wasting money on the CDW insurance?How many cars have you rented in Germany? I've probably rented upwards of 30 or more, not one ever game me problems with my credit card's insurance coverage on the rental car. Have you rented from Dollar or Thrifty in Germany? If so, that might be your problem.
Personally, I think your wasting your money but it is your money to waste.
Hessen Bub
08-30-12, 22:13
atarctic: what kind of evidence are you expecting? signed confessions? video? audio tapes? pictures of pimps [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) or beating women? i don't have any. i will not mention any names of girls.
there's all stages from girls working in their own for themselves, girls working for their families or a friend or husband, girls working for pimps being beaten and and not seeing the money they make.
how can i go on clubbing? trying to respect the girls, not being an asshole and in rare cases helping girls. the sex industry won't vanish tomorrow if they loose me as a customer.
hb
atarctic: what kind of evidence are you expecting? signed confessions? video? audio tapes? pictures of pimps [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) or beating women? i don't have any. i will not mention any names of girls.
there's all stages from girls working in their own for themselves, girls working for their families or a friend or husband, girls working for pimps being beaten and and not seeing the money they make.
how can i go on clubbing? trying to respect the girls, not being an asshole and in rare cases helping girls. the sex industry won't vanish tomorrow if they loose me as a customer.
hbevidence? tell me you've seen the beatings occur. tell me you've seen things rather than what someone else told you. you don't accept "hearsay" from other posters, why should they accept it from you?
and yes. there are all levels of "forced" and that's what's so complicated about the issue. a girl with a husband who makes her work in an fkk is not really "forced" until he starts slapping her around. when he starts doing that, she normally has a legal recourse she can take against him rather than simply follow his coercion. a woman in a village in the ee who doesn't have the skills to make better than a living in poverty is not forced if she chooses prostitution abroad. she's no more forced than a high school graduate in the usa who signs up for the army and is sent to afghanistan.
being told your family is dead if you don't perform sexually, that's slavery but, how many of these women are actually in that situation? i submit not many are this level.
look at your last sentence above, you're stating that you're fine with the abuses you believe are occurring and it wouldn't make the practices go away if you didn't participate in clubbing. true, but really, if you believe what you are saying then you are contributing to the demand of those you believe are held in sexual bondage and you aren't doing anything to help the problem, but are rather a key component in it.
maybe there's a language barrier here though, lets say i pick 10 fkk girls out of oase, how many of those girls would be girls who hate being there and are only there because someone either beats them or has threatened their lives or the life of a family member.
the trafficking "myths" are all based around the premise that women, especially those in underdeveloped nations, are childlike simpletons who can't think for themselves and are therefore easily manipulated by men. it not only removes agency of self-determination for women but it also continues the whole myth of men as "abusers".
the trafficking scaremongers of the world state that all of us who participate in the paysex business are well aware that these girls of forced, but we don't care. we don't care because we're evil and actually enjoy abusing women and this is what they think.
i'm an american, and it's the usa state department's annual report on trafficking in humans that is thrown around worldwide as the authoritative source on trafficking. i simply cannot believe that, after being wrong about wmd's in iraq, that any nation would listen to us pontificate about something as anomalous as [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908). you guys are smarter than this, hb.
Arctic, dude, if I remember correctly you haven't even been to a FKK club yet. As both you and HB said, there are many shades of grey and the term 'forced' might be more ambiguous as it seems. Let me put it like this, if you ask how many of the Romanian girls in Oase get to keep all of the cripsy 50 you give her; the answer is none.
I also get the feeling particular girls are "controlled" at certain clubs than others.
Most of the girls at GT. They tend to be less "controlled" by 3rd parties and independent.
At Oase, I do sense most of the girls are under of alot of pressure / stress. Obviously,
There are many factors to this.
Arctic, dude, if I remember correctly you haven't even been to a FKK club yet. As both you and HB said, there are many shades of grey and the term 'forced' might be more ambiguous as it seems. Let me put it like this, if you ask how many of the Romanian girls in Oase get to keep all of the cripsy 50 you give her; the answer is none.
Arctic, dude, if I remember correctly you haven't even been to a FKK club yet. As both you and HB said, there are many shades of grey and the term 'forced' might be more ambiguous as it seems. Let me put it like this, if you ask how many of the Romanian girls in Oase get to keep all of the cripsy 50 you give her; the answer is none.Trafficking myths aren't exclusive to the FKK's. We deal with them throughout the world. There is nothing "magical" about the FKK when it comes to [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) schemes.
I'm not trying to skewer HB. Just trying to get some "quantification" of the problem. The traffickers in the US claim that 1. 8 million CHILDREN (younger than 18) are "trafficked" for sexual purposes each year in the USA That's a number that's larger than the populations of 19 US states and territories. And it's completely preposterous.
Can we conclude at least, that the FKK's are fairly immune to the most egregious form of sexual slavery? That of child slavery? I'm assuming the German authorities at least check this aspect.
How big is the problem? Scope is everything here. If 1% of the FKK workers are "slaves" by the true definition that is one thing. If 90% of them are then that is quite another don't you think?
It's a serious subject and one that pisses me off. The busy bodies of this world who want to control us try to get support on their side by making these wild claims, and then we have those in our own midst who say "Oh yeah, that happens, but whatever, my participation in paysex isn't influencing it." And this just gives the busybodies the ammunition they need to point at us and say."Hey, look right there, that PERVO admits that he knows about the sexual slavery but he's fine with it!"
I know very well that, in India there may be some little girls who have their virginity auctioned off to the highest bidder. That upsets me, I'm a former military man and I'd gladly jump on a helo with a. 50 cal to rescue those kids and deal some serious damage to the pervo's bidding on them. But don't use those kids as a rationale for going after honest, mature women throughout the world (and in FKK's) who have chosen the profession of hooking for good faith reasons. I'm not interested in spending any time with a "slave" no matter what her age is. Let me get that straight. I certainly hope that no one else is either. If I found a "slave" working, wherever, I'd do everything in my power to help her out.
I think most of us here would. Or am I wrong and we're all just a bunch of mongers who don't give a shit what kind of impact our "hobby" has on the women we purchase time with?
Let me put it like this, if you ask how many of the Romanian girls in Oase get to keep all of the cripsy 50 you give her; the answer is none.What does that mean?
Do I get to keep all the money I make at my job? Don't I pay some of that to income taxes? Don't I pay some of that to state sales taxes when I purchase a lawnmower? Doesn't my girlfriend get a percentage of that cut? She doesn't have to beat me for it. She just closes her thighs. Does that make me a slave?
I tip a waitress, does she keep that money? No, because she gives some of that to the cook and the busboy too. Does that make her a slave?
What about a chick that works in Walmart who has a husband who takes her paycheck? Is she a slave? Doesn't she have options to leave him if she wishes?
Neutron Flux
08-31-12, 01:30
HB is quite correct in almost everything, but it's even a bit shallow to reduce it to that layer of 'good / forced girl' and 'bad boyfriend / pimp / manager' in order to get a bigger picture.
Where to start Arctic? Hard evidence. Yes, you can actually find a lot of that, just google around (don't know whether you speak German). As soon as there is hard evidence, police will get involved, sure. We are a country of law, after all. There's tons of stories, people getting arrested ('Zuhälter', German for pimp). I suggest you widen your google also a bit towards Hells Angels, Bandidos, Italian and Russian Mafia und such. I spare you the role some bribed police guys sometimes have in this.
Other than that, yes it's mostly just hearsay, but when you are around for a while, you will see a lot of things and start trying to make sense of it. A good exercise to begin with, is actually, what others have suggested, staying around for a while, when an FKK closes. Did that only very little, but you can read a lot of stories about that actually in German forums. Suffice it to say, the scenery will change quite a bit. There are also a lot of stories, where mongers have seen known girls getting beaten up at places like autobahn parking spaces and the like.
Oh yes, the girls will talk a lot of BS and it's actually quite simplistic to put them down as victims. More hearsay? Surprisingly, a lot of the girls at FKKs are no angels either. The 'unlucky girl' that just let her eyes fall onto the wrong guy. She exists, but mostly it's a wholly different story. Many girls you will meet in the clubs will have been involved in some sort of semi-legal / illegal stuff even before they start their careers. Drug dealing, theft, etc. Many of them will have criminal records not associated to their current job. This particularly, but by no means exclusively, applies to German girls you will find in clubs. As a result of this they will often have a deeper understanding of the various business schemes running in these venues, because they are often no different in mind. Also, particularly in larger clubs, its very common that there are hierarchies between the girls based on status in the club, experience, nationality etc. There are frequently girls that act as 'associate managers' and overlook other, mostly newer, girls as a side income in the club, or even just to upgrade their status with their boyfriends. There are also a lot of physical confrontations going on between the girls, and often for laughable matters. And so forth. Shades of grey.
And pimps. The idea of a pimp/'bad ass boyfriend' operating freely in any of the major FKKs / brothels is pretty much a 'romantic leftover' from past times. That happened in brothels in the 60s / 70s, and was also very violent back then. But times have long changed, as others have pointed out, there are various motorcycle gangs operating, big and small ones, Italian / Russian mafia, various groups from eastern Europe / Turkey / North Africa. And. They all have their territories. The pimps are often just as unfree as the girls because they are deeply involved in their organisation. More hearsay? Those gangs often have initiation / loyalty rituals or tests that make black saturdays look like childs birthdays. Not just hearsay though, has been attested in court several times.
It's an underworld environment and a lot of BS is happening there. BTW this will certainly not go on forever like this. Sooner or later there will be crackdown, because of the way all this has grown in the past few years and people coming from all over the world to us, you can bet on that. It's just a natural business cycle and I'the be surprised if we weren't very close to the top of it right now.
Look at your last sentence above, you're stating that you're fine with the abuses you believe are occurring and it wouldn't make the practices go away if you didn't participate in clubbing. True, but really, if you believe what you are saying then you ARE contributing to the demand of those you believe are held in sexual bondage and you aren't doing anything to help the problem, but are rather a key component in it.You are a key component in abuse as soon as you see the light of this planet. Yes, a significant amount of your money spent in FKKs or other brothels will find its way into channels you and others will not like, but so does your money spent on pretty much everything else. But it's not our fault. After all, it's a legal and regulated business, and if there are things going wrong the idea that a customer could do a lot about it is quite laughable. Do you investigate abuses in the production chain when you buy a car or a smartphone? If there is hard evidence, you should do something about it, sure, and actually I quite disagree with the line Batou took (although as others have pointed out, there's a high probability she was BSing). And you should also avoid places that are too shady, but that's about all you can do. You should keep your compass up, yes, and try to improve things whenever you can, but if you start questioning, whenever you do something that is fun, you will have a sad life.
And, no offense Arctic, but maybe you should try to look at it from a less ideological perspective. Yes, I know, the debate in America concerning sex and other things is deeply like that, but there's no use in it, really. There's often no simple good or bad, right or wrong. You should worry less what message the USA State Dept or other governments / organisations are trying to convey to whomsoever. Nobody cares, in Europe at least.
What does that mean?
Doesn't my girlfriend get a percentage of that cut? She doesn't have to beat me for it. She just closes her thighs. Does that make me a slave?Your girlfriend offers you companionship, sex, etc, which are tangible benefits. Pimps by definition offer no benefits to the girls they control. Quite the contrary, they offer physical and mental harm to them.
I tip a waitress, does she keep that money? No, because she gives some of that to the cook and the busboy too. Does that make her a slave?The cook and the busboy contribute to the overall service and dining experience to the customer, which in turn contributes to the tips she receives. Pimps contribute nothing to the service the girls provide to their customers, except the coercion part that made the girls' sex service available to begin with (involuntarily by definition).
What about a chick that works in Walmart who has a husband who takes her paycheck? Is she a slave? Doesn't she have options to leave him if she wishes?The husband shares much with the wife: apartment, cars, children, sense of family, etc, and she does have the option to leave him if she wishes and that happen quite often in real life. Pimps share nothing with the girls they control and most girls do not have the option to leave their pimps even if they wish.
The statistics on sex trafficking may be exaggerated but sex trafficking does happen and it is not a figment of our imagination. Selling sex for a living voluntarily is one thing, being forced into it is entirely different. Yes, we are all "forced" to work in some sense in order to survive. But most of us have the choice of career or means of making a living and we often choose doing something that we feel morally accepatble to ourselves and our families. For example, we all know that scamming people out of their life savings or pimping are not something our conscience (or lord if you're religious) would approve of, and we would not choose either one as our career choice. Now, whether *you* personally think selling sex is morally acceptable is besides the point. What matters is the girls' value system and if it tells them that it is an immoral and shameful thing to do, and then some pimps force them to do it, I think it is not very difficult to see how wrong it is. And I think it is not hard to see the difference between the girls being forced to sell sex for a living - given that they perceive it to be a morally reprehensible thing to do - and us being forced to work to make a living the "normal" way.
Nick The G
08-31-12, 14:05
For those, who are in the area: starting tonight and lasting until Monday, the town of Bad Homburg celebrates the well-known "Laternenfest" (lantern festival)
http://www.bad-homburg-tourismus.de/en/events/index-showid36540.htm
Program here as pdf download (in german)
http://laternenfest.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Programm-2012.pdf
For Americans: tonight Shannon McNally and Will Sexton will be on stage over there!
Might happen that you will meet some of the FKK-Oase girls over there too!
Your girlfriend offers you companionship, sex, etc, which are tangible benefits. Pimps by definition offer no benefits to the girls they control. Quite the contrary, they offer physical and mental harm to them.
The cook and the busboy contribute to the overall service and dining experience to the customer, which in turn contributes to the tips she receives. Pimps contribute nothing to the service the girls provide to their customers, except the coercion part that made the girls' sex service available to begin with (involuntarily by definition).
The husband shares much with the wife: apartment, cars, children, sense of family, etc, and she does have the option to leave him if she wishes and that happen quite often in real life. Pimps share nothing with the girls they control and most girls do not have the option to leave their pimps even if they wish.
The statistics on sex trafficking may be exaggerated but sex trafficking does happen and it is not a figment of our imagination. Selling sex for a living voluntarily is one thing, being forced into it is entirely different. Yes, we are all "forced" to work in some sense in order to survive. But most of us have the choice of career or means of making a living and we often choose doing something that we feel morally accepatble to ourselves and our families. For example, we all know that scamming people out of their life savings or pimping are not something our conscience (or lord if you're religious) would approve of, and we would not choose either one as our career choice. Now, whether *you* personally think selling sex is morally acceptable is besides the point. What matters is the girls' value system and if it tells them that it is an immoral and shameful thing to do, and then some pimps force them to do it, I think it is not very difficult to see how wrong it is. And I think it is not hard to see the difference between the girls being forced to sell sex for a living. Given that they perceive it to be a morally reprehensible thing to do. And us being forced to work to make a living the "normal" way.I have never felt that a girl in an FKK was forced to work.
Girls that originate from Eastern Europe, especially Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, etc. All claim that as a waitress or as an office clerk in their own country they make about 200-300 Euro per month. This is consistent and public knowlegde.
That 300Euro is also the amount that in average most girls seem to be making in an FKK PER DAY. Assuming they have the looks and the attitude.
One newby once told me that during the first week, she didn't make less than 300 Euro per day even on the worst day of the week.
Of course these girls have a private life and people taking advantage of them personally. I have however a very hard time to believe that many of them are really forced into this.
Most girls seem to be enjoying themselves, not only for the money but also the relative relaxed life.
Just my two cents.
Atooz. Yes everything you say is correct. But only if one defines (as you do) "pimp" as a trafficker forcing someone to do something. many people interprete "pimp" much more widely i.e. receiving some benefit from a working girl
As Neutron says there are many shades of grey
As Artic and Neutron indicate, there are complex situations. What if the "pimp" is in fact an unemployed man living with a working girl, or even a working girl who has taken a fee for introducing a new girl to the profession. There are as many variations as we have imagination for. In some cases it may amount to slavery, but in many more the element of co-ercion is more likely to be general economic circumstances. This means we should perhaps also be very worried about the conditions of the millions in debt bondage and sweated labour producing our goods in India etc.
The so called respectable companies are exploiting millions of people. And we are almost powerless to stop it. We should not reserve our morality for FKK encounters only - despite what the US debate might suggest. At least in FKK we can see the worker for ourselves and can make some kind of guess and try not to encourage any form of trafficking.
And we should also be aware that we need to reserve some awareness of the possibility that some of the girls can be excellent (intentionally or otherwise) at exploiting our own weaknesses/needs (emotional or otherwise) and are able to entrap and enslave us in various ways
Neutron - for what it's worth I also have the feeling we are entering a bubble economy so far as FKKs etc are concerned and that the inevitable crash will come. The concerted action against Hells Angels in northern Germany, the closure of street prostitution in Dortmund could be the first signs of a coming (moderate) reaction against the explosion of immigrant workers and the milieu. I say moderate reaction in view of increasing moves by the State to regularise tax payments from sex workers
Do you think that German girls are slave too? There are a lot of them in these clubs.
Anyway in my country (ITA) , cause of the laws that forbid prostitution, there is seriously the problem of slavery, exploitation, and violence on the girls that works (illegally).
I think that in a country like Germany, where laws seems working right, some heavy situations are less than we think, and I seriously hope so.
In some club where I had been staying chatting a lot with the girls, at the end of the business, a lot of time I've heard the same story: I want to save some money for buy my own house,
I need some money for the holiday, change the car, get married (your boyfriend and future husband knows what you are doing?). Well probably the most of the time, behind there is a smart boyfriend.
That say "make money and give it to me, so I buy our house and prepare for the marriage", and simply an easy girl that believe in that.
Hessen Bub
08-31-12, 20:12
I have never felt that a girl in an FKK was forced to work.
Most girls seem to be enjoying themselves, not only for the money but also the relative relaxed life.That's what you should experience as a guest to the club.
atArtic: Go visit some clubs and see for yourself. I am not into an ideological theoretical discussion. Neutron Flux's description is right to the point.
HB
Member #4449
09-01-12, 11:44
If there is hard evidence, you should do something about it, sure, and actually I quite disagree with the line Batou took (although as others have pointed out, there's a high probability she was BSing).This is something I have been thinking allot about, and I still do not know what the right thing to do would be, but I am not proud of my self for doing nothing.
So my question is, what do you guys think I should have done? Have anyone of you been in a similar situation, if so how did you handle it? And if this is indeed a was scam, than I can't have been the first victim.
I still believe it was real because here weird behavior, she showed me all kinds of emotions, from scared to happy and smiling to almost crying. She was all over the place, hard to explain.
She did have a DKNY watch and a IPhone, when I asked about the watch, she told me it was a gift from the "boyfriend", he gave it to her when he showed her off to his buddies.
I am trying to book well known ETAP hoteles but ACCOR web site shows them as Ibis Budget with remark "Ex- Etap".
Service is still as at ETAPs, or front desk as st Ibis? What changes have been made?
Thanks
I like cim finish. But some girls promise to do it, then pull away. What do you do.
Are you better off haveing a session shortly after arriving or waiting an hour or so to get yourself acclimated. It seems like after you bat away the first ten the others seem to loose interest.
Reporter2010
09-02-12, 03:53
I am trying to book well known ETAP hoteles but ACCOR web site shows them as Ibis Budget with remark "Ex- Etap". Service is still as at ETAPs, or front desk as st Ibis? What changes have been made?I believe it's just a change to the branding, not the service. Management believes the Ibis name is better known than ETAP and wants to capitalise on that. Similarly, the former "All Seasons" hotels are becoming "Ibis Styles". So there are now three sorts of Ibis.
StarletVoyager
09-02-12, 06:21
I would expect rates to be between etap and ibis levels and it seems they may have redecorated the old etaps to make them look more modern and so charge a higher rate.
I am trying to book well known ETAP hoteles but ACCOR web site shows them as Ibis Budget with remark "Ex- Etap".
Service is still as at ETAPs, or front desk as st Ibis? What changes have been made?
ThanksNo change at all, except the "new" name. Same check-in, same front desk service as before. At least in Hamburg, Ratingen, Willich and Köln.
My guess it's a move just to get a brand that they have full control over and that they can develop and aim at the right customer group.
Go to etap (dot) com, and you will come to a homepage that is promoting some "power system software". Check out the colours, the logo, the typography and the struckture of the homepage. Either the hotel chain or the software company are "ripping" the other off (or they are cooperating).
I hope that the change will not affect the price level in the wrong direction.
T
Banana Boi
09-02-12, 16:13
I like cim finish. But some girls promise to do it, then pull away. What do you do.Spend the 50 euro you just saved on the next girl. .
Are you better off haveing a session shortly after arriving or waiting an hour or so to get yourself acclimated. It seems like after you bat away the first ten the others seem to loose interest.Have a session when you see the girl you want to go with, whether it be within minutes or an hour after you arrive. If no one asks you then walk up to whoever you want and ask her. She isn't going to say no and girls really appreciate guys who ask.
Are you better off haveing a session shortly after arriving or waiting an hour or so to get yourself acclimated. It seems like after you bat away the first ten the others seem to loose interest.All depends on how your body feels after your journey to get to the club of your choice. I've landed before and done back to back sessions without any problem, then again I've also walked into Oase and hit the lounge chair by the jacuzzi only to wake up 2 hours later. If your extremely tired from the journey, get some rest so that first 50 euro's doesn't go to waste.
Neutron Flux
09-02-12, 21:34
This is something I have been thinking allot about, and I still do not know what the right thing to do would be, but I am not proud of my self for doing nothing.
So my question is, what do you guys think I should have done? Have anyone of you been in a similar situation, if so how did you handle it? And if this is indeed a was scam, than I can't have been the first victim.
I still believe it was real because here weird behavior, she showed me all kinds of emotions, from scared to happy and smiling to almost crying. She was all over the place, hard to explain.
She did have a DKNY watch and a IPhone, when I asked about the watch, she told me it was a gift from the "boyfriend", he gave it to her when he showed her off to his buddies.Batou,
I doubt you will find good answers here. And I'm not going to preach you any due course of action either. I stated that, based on your description, I would've handled things differently, and I'm quite certain of that but after all, all that we have is a few lines of text on the internet. So guess who's best qualified to decide what to do. You know the options. It's good to seek advice but at some point you just have to make your own choices.
But simply running away when a problem unfolds is hardly ever a good option. Many people are doing that many times, because they're lazy or do not have the balls and we have all been guilty of that at some point. He who is without sin throw the first stone. But. Your sins of the past will stay and haunt you.
Spend the 50 euro you just saved on the next girl.I don't think that is what Katinka meant. I think Katinka is asking when he has undertaken to perform a CIM that the girl takes her mouth off his cock as he comes so her mouth is not staying on his cock to his absolute completion. She still demands the 50 euro.
London Traveller
09-03-12, 00:32
I like cim finish. But some girls promise to do it, then pull away. What do you do.Don't see these girls again!
Amriptna111
09-03-12, 00:58
don't see these girls again!i go again with them and the next time the minute i want to cum i control my face, make sure the pressure builds up like crazy and then make the ahh sound and squiny face (this is all pre planned in my head) and when they try to pull away again i quickly hold their head to restrict the pull (they will be shocked during this time as they don't anticipate the hold) and give a powerfull spurt(i remembered i gave a push like i wanna give a good [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) in their mouth. this technique will definetly have your baby seed go into their stomach. did this three times. only one girl push me back and got angry to which i reply " i thought you agree because cum in mouth means i spurt in mouth and that is what happen" and i pretended to play stupid. the girls won't dare to hit a customer as she would be ban from the club as you ccan press assault charges against her (but be warned it could turn into a police case but i don't care as i am not married so i don't care of being caught in a fkk). just that make sure when you hold her head you don't do it hard (you don't need to do it because she will be shock that you restrict her head movement and she will stop her head by herself). for girl who are honest with me there is no problem and i will always do cim the normal way(i am even satisfied if the cum just drip on the lips) i do my thing and they do they thing but for those that rip off i teach them a lesson. so for 100 euro i am certain i got a swallow.
revenge is best serve cold. the nice part is when you hear them go "quek quek" rtrying to get the cum out of their stomach but hey my baby seed is already in there so enjoy my protein shake.
I like cim finish. But some girls promise to do it, then pull away. What do you do.I've been reading about these CIM scams lately and don't know what to make of it all. I mean, it's never happened to me that a girl who had agreed to CIM pulled away right at the point of the money shot. At the same time, I've never had a girl who had not agreed to CIM all of a sudden put her mouth on my dick and draw back real quick just trying to get paid for an upsell without having really put in the effort for it.
In the first case, I definitely would not pay extra for CIM. She didn't do what she said she was going to do, so I'm not paying. Why the hell would anybody? Why should you? If she wants to argue it, then let's take it to the front desk! And you know what? I'm not paying under the second set of circumstances either where you didn't mutually agree on CIM and the desperate tute is just trying to play you for a fool! I mean that kind of behavior would really [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off! I would report what she did and wouldn't pay her one damn Euro extra.
I'm just glad I haven't had any of these problems. That would sure put a damper on all the fun to be had at a FKK! You're there to enjoy, not to get rooked by shifty ass tutes that don't want to work for the money. A full day's pay for a full day's work! I think that some of these girls just see some guys, for whatever reason, as suckers and "marks" that they can take advantage of. I'm not having it, so I'm glad nobody has ever tested me this way. It would make for some "interesting" times needless to say.
I don't think that is what Katinka meant. I think Katinka is asking when he has undertaken to perform a CIM that the girl takes her mouth off his cock as he comes so her mouth is not staying on his cock to his absolute completion. She still demands the 50 euro.Exactly what I meant. Maybe she takes the first squirt, maybe she pulls away on the first dry contraction, it is hard to tell. But thanks for the counsel. If it happens again I won't pay and see what the result is.
Nick The G
09-03-12, 10:50
REVENGE is BEST serve COLD. The nice part is when you hear them go "quek quek" rtrying to get the cum out of their stomach but hey my baby seed is already in there so enjoy my protein shake.Come in mouth means, that you agree to pay an extra amount of money (in most clubs) for being allowed to come in her mouth. And that the woman agrees that you can do it for an extra amount of money.
It doesn't mean that the girl has to swallow your stuff nor that she agrees to be forced by you to swallow your stuff.
You are responsible for your behavour, not she!
Some people seem to be constantly at war with women (intellectually?) , even when they enter a german FKK-Club!
Amriptna111
09-03-12, 11:11
Come in mouth means, that you agree to pay an extra amount of money (in most clubs) for being allowed to come in her mouth. And that the woman agrees that you can do it for an extra amount of money.
It doesn't mean that the girl has to swallow your stuff nor that she agrees to be forced by you to swallow your stuff.
You are responsible for your behavour, not she!
Some people seem to be constantly at war with women (intellectually?) , even when they enter a german FKK-Club!Nick don't get me wrong I agree with what you say However there are girls that are total rip offs. I have experienced it didn't even touch her lips more like a little spurt goes to her neck but the majority was on the bed? She totally bwent renegade on the arrangement and still demanded 50 euro. I am even happy with cum on lips if girls don't want in the mouth.
I did not ask her to swollow rather I change my tactic just like she did. I didn't even hold forcefully her head just like a barried from her to move. It is actually more like a psychological barrier she pulls away her head then there is a hand at the back and your automatic response is to stop. No force at all! Only thing is that the build up of pressure I admit I go to the maximum as I can and trust me it was the maximum. She swallowed it I did not push my cock at all down her throat rather you can say only tip of the cock were at the front of the lips!
I believe if there is an arrangement with a girl both should honour it. My only thing I am dissatisfied is when a girl tries to cheat thats all.
Angus Magee
09-03-12, 11:11
Come in mouth means, that you agree to pay an extra amount of money (in most clubs) for being allowed to come in her mouth. And that the woman agrees that you can do it for an extra amount of money.
It doesn't mean that the girl has to swallow your stuff nor that she agrees to be forced by you to swallow your stuff.
You are responsible for your behavour, not she!
Some people seem to be constantly at war with women (intellectually?) , even when they enter a german FKK-Club!Hear hear to this. Besides, pissing a girl off while he has your precious member in her mouth with all those teeth does not seem the wisest course in any case.
AM
Hessen Bub
09-03-12, 11:45
i quickly hold their head to restrict the pull (they will be shocked during this time as they don't anticipate the hold) and give a powerfull spurt (i remembered i gave a push like i want to give a good [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) in their mouth.
the girls won't dare to hit a customer as she would be ban from the club as you ccan press assault charges against her (but be warned it could turn into a police case but i don't care as i am not married so i don't care of being caught in a fkk).are you serious about this "advice"? hope one of the girls will dig her teeth deeply into your willy.
hb.
ps: maybe you are meaning something else than you are writing.
Angus Magee
09-03-12, 12:09
I believe if there is an arrangement with a girl both should honour it. My only thing I am dissatisfied is when a girl tries to cheat thats all.If a girl blatantly and obviously reneges on an agreement calmly take it up with management. Even if you still end up paying the 50, it is still registered with management that there may well be a problem. With something like CIM this can be hard to prove and will likely come down to your perception of the event vs hers. As I say, you might not get financial satisfaction but the girl will get noticed.
The other option is to simply not go with her any more and write a balanced report here stating your case.
Booking the girl again to try to obtain some sort of revenge is just not the thing to do. If I believe a girl has ripped me off why on earth would I want to spend even 5 minutes alone with her in a room? That is just throwing good money after bad in my opinion. Is revenge really that important to you? Maybe paint ball would be a better hobby. This is paid sex, it is supposed to be fun.
AM
Amriptna111
09-03-12, 13:06
Are you serious about this "advice"? Hope one of the girls will dig her teeth deeply into your willy.
HB.
PS: Maybe you are meaning something else than you are writing.No HB. Not forcefully porcing just lke putting hand behind the back. No way did I grab her hair or head. Perhaps my writing is not so delicate. But no force was done. The maximum build up pressure of cum was true but I think some gusy do cim this way they built up the pressure then boom. And the girl waits for it. It would be only a problem if the girls pull away. But if the girl just wait and get ready for it it won't go into her stomach.
Amriptna111
09-03-12, 13:08
If a girl blatantly and obviously reneges on an agreement calmly take it up with management. Even if you still end up paying the 50, it is still registered with management that there may well be a problem. With something like CIM this can be hard to prove and will likely come down to your perception of the event vs hers. As I say, you might not get financial satisfaction but the girl will get noticed.
The other option is to simply not go with her any more and write a balanced report here stating your case.
Booking the girl again to try to obtain some sort of revenge is just not the thing to do. If I believe a girl has ripped me off why on earth would I want to spend even 5 minutes alone with her in a room? That is just throwing good money after bad in my opinion. Is revenge really that important to you? Maybe paint ball would be a better hobby. This is paid sex, it is supposed to be fun.
AMI didn't know you can complain on this as in a way you did spurt on her body and this would be a definite 50 euro so no room for argument. I did it because I thought 50 euro went down the drain. The girl wins and I lose.
That would sure put a damper on all the fun to be had at a FKK! You're there to enjoy, not to get rooked by shifty ass tutes that don't want to work for the money. A full day's pay for a full day's work! I think that some of these girls just see some guys, for whatever reason, as suckers and "marks" that they can take advantage of. I'm not having it, so I'm glad nobody has ever tested me this way. It would make for some "interesting" times needless to say.Why is 50 Euros such a big deal? Seriously. We're all "suckers" and "marks" at the end of the say as they are extracting money from our wallets. Who cares? Maybe I'm the only one. But I get amused by a woman who has thought up a trick or two to make more money. To be honest, I don't think I negotiated a CIM every time I got one. But I still paid for it. Hey, the girl's down there, it's feeling good, is that the time for negotiation? I told them all to just "go with the flow" hell if I come in your mouth I'll pay for it even if I didn't plan it. See, thing is. I didn't want to negotiate a CIM because sometimes I get in a position while fucking and say "To hell with the CIM, I want to come NOW!". That's kind of disappointing for the girl who misses out on the extra money when I finish inside her. Especially if I negotiated a CIM. So, I'd rather not negotiate it and leave up to the mood at the time to dictate where the seed falls you know?
I had about five women taking care of me this weekend at OASE and they all treated me like a king. Because I'm NICE though and don't nit-pick the money details. I came to have fun, not to argue over money. If I weren't having fun then I might argue about the money but that wasn't my experience.
Why is 50 Euros such a big deal? Seriously. We're all "suckers" and "marks" at the end of the say as they are extracting money from our wallets. Who cares? Maybe I'm the only one. But I get amused by a woman who has thought up a trick or two to make more money. To be honest, I don't think I negotiated a CIM every time I got one. But I still paid for it. Hey, the girl's down there, it's feeling good, is that the time for negotiation? I told them all to just "go with the flow" hell if I come in your mouth I'll pay for it even if I didn't plan it. See, thing is. I didn't want to negotiate a CIM because sometimes I get in a position while fucking and say "To hell with the CIM, I want to come NOW!". That's kind of disappointing for the girl who misses out on the extra money when I finish inside her. Especially if I negotiated a CIM. So, I'd rather not negotiate it and leave up to the mood at the time to dictate where the seed falls you know?
I had about five women taking care of me this weekend at OASE and they all treated me like a king. Because I'm NICE though and don't nit-pick the money details. I came to have fun, not to argue over money. If I weren't having fun then I might argue about the money but that wasn't my experience.Because it's my money, and I don't give it away for nothing. That's why. Now. You should do any negotiating you're going to do BEFORE you go to the room so, as you say, you can just "go with the flow" and enjoy. If you've chosen a girl who's on the up and up, then there will be no problems. And if what we negotiated was my sperm flowing into her mouth, but she doesn't do the job, then she doesn't deserve to get paid the 50 Euros extra for CIM. It's that simple. A deal's a deal.
By the same token, if you did no negotiation prior and you "go with the flow" and CIM, then guess what? You owe the girl the money and should pay up! Nobody here has suggested anything different from that. That's very, very different from the girl saying she does CIM, but then she doesn't really perform and still expects that somebody is going to pay her 50 Euros extra.
Or even worse, you didn't agree to CIM and you DON'T want to pay for CIM, but the girl decides she's going to try to get 50 Euros extra from you anyway by quickly putting her mouth down there, then pulling back. That's unacceptable, bullshit behavior! If this sort of thing amuses you, then yes you would be one of the only ones to find it so funny. It's not so much about the money. After all, I often will drop 200 Euros a session (1 hour with anal) , and I normally do 3 to 4 sessions a day with at least half of those including anal (5 sessions total if I'm really horny!). Rarely ever do I do a session shorter than 1 hour. No my friend, it's not just the money. It's the PRINCIPLE of the thing. You see, it's not "amusing" to rip off the customers in any business. Especially to the customers!
I understand your view that you prefer for things to go naturally and don't want to nit pick over the money. That's how I am when it comes to many things that I might enjoy in a session, such as kissing. To me, it's so much more satisfying when kissing happens naturally during the session. I never "negotiate" for that. But when it comes to things that are officially on the house menu for a price, I've found that it's much, much better for the trick and the tute to discuss all of that in a low-key, non-pressure, FRIENDLY kind of way BEFORE they go to the room. That helps to avoid any misunderstandings about the money that might have otherwise arisen later. And if a girl expects me to pay her extra for things that aren't priced out on the house menu, she better make that clear BEFORE we go to the room. I've never paid extra to kiss a girl or suck some nookie or lick a tute's butt crack. And I never will. Ha!
Is there any difference where to exchange USD to EURO: in Fraport kiosks or better to do it in Sparkasse in the city? Is fee different or about the same?
Amriptna111
09-03-12, 21:46
Why is 50 Euros such a big deal? Seriously. We're all "suckers" and "marks" at the end of the say as they are extracting money from our wallets. Who cares? Maybe I'm the only one. But I get amused by a woman who has thought up a trick or two to make more money. To be honest, I don't think I negotiated a CIM every time I got one. But I still paid for it. Hey, the girl's down there, it's feeling good, is that the time for negotiation? I told them all to just "go with the flow" hell if I come in your mouth I'll pay for it even if I didn't plan it. See, thing is. I didn't want to negotiate a CIM because sometimes I get in a position while fucking and say "To hell with the CIM, I want to come NOW!". That's kind of disappointing for the girl who misses out on the extra money when I finish inside her. Especially if I negotiated a CIM. So, I'd rather not negotiate it and leave up to the mood at the time to dictate where the seed falls you know?
I had about five women taking care of me this weekend at OASE and they all treated me like a king. Because I'm NICE though and don't nit-pick the money details. I came to have fun, not to argue over money. If I weren't having fun then I might argue about the money but that wasn't my experience.Hi artic that is cause you are on a holiday so you think it is okay to splurge some of us who are near to frankfurt or frequently goes there and sort of have fkk lifestyle will plan our budget and try to get a fair deal. I am sorry but I have to disagree with your point at you are looking it from a tourist POV
To be honest, I don't think I negotiated a CIM every time I got one. But I still paid for it. Hey, the girl's down there, it's feeling good, is that the time for negotiation? I told them all to just "go with the flow" hell if I come in your mouth I'll pay for it even if I didn't plan it. See, thing is. I didn't want to negotiate a CIM because sometimes I get in a position while fucking and say "To hell with the CIM, I want to come NOW!". That's kind of disappointing for the girl who misses out on the extra money when I finish inside her. Especially if I negotiated a CIM. So, I'd rather not negotiate it and leave up to the mood at the time to dictate where the seed falls you know?
I had about five women taking care of me this weekend at OASE and they all treated me like a king. Because I'm NICE though and don't nit-pick the money details. I came to have fun, not to argue over money. If I weren't having fun then I might argue about the money but that wasn't my experience.Have to agree with your last point. No wants to go have a great argument at reception over what the correct charge was. Has never happened to me. However I may have been ripped off over time on an odd occasion. Misreading the clock is the most likely way girls would try to cheat the customer. That's why Palace now records start times on a log book. Many girls are very honest about time anyway and some have not charged for being slightly over time, or accepted a small increment instead of a whole 50 more.
Not sure why we talk about CIM "negotiation". Its simple either I came in her mouth or I didn't. If I did, I must pay for it, whether I pre-planned it or not. I think we are agreed on that one. So negotiation is neither necessary or nor useful. If a girl doesn't do CIM I would warn her before coming. If I didn't want to CIM I would simply change to do something else, like ask for a condom. If a girl tries to upsell to CIM at the beginning, I am simply non committal and say "I don't know yet". I never pay for come on body. Just doesn't interest me and have never experienced a girl trying to get extra money for that. I generally don't like hand jobs much either.
Is there any difference where to exchange USD to EURO: in Fraport kiosks or better to do it in Sparkasse in the city? Is fee different or about the same?I've been using debit cards for about 6 years. I have 2, from my bank which has a daily withdrawal limit and recently one from Schwab (a great suggestion from Breadman) that doesn't have a limit (and returns ALL ATM fees) , neither charge foreign exchange fees (big cost factor). Both give me the current exchange rate (another big cost factor) for date of the withdrawal.
If you go this route, look for:
No foreign exchange fee,
You get the current exchange rate, and
You get ATM fees returned.
It took about 2 weeks to get the Schwab account setup, funded and to receive the card.
Breadman and I don't agree on many things, but he sure had a winner suggestion with the Schwab card.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.