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I know that Durex makes some that have flavor, but their condoms are usually some of the thickest ones on the market. I do buy these and use them for my earliest sessions with girls. It helps me last longer before popping. Everything has its purposes. Hope it helps.
FiddyCent.No, I have given Durex too many 2nd chances. And only the London brand is worse than Durex. Durex had one condom that was just 'ok' some years ago. With mint flavor and tingle. But I haven't seen that in years now.
I am at the stage where I leave the room 50% of the time if they refuse to use another brand than London. And I will probably start the same with Durex soon.
I was at Atmos in Hamburg a few days ago and went upstairs with two girls I've never been before. I didn't talk about the service before. In the room they both offered the service in question without me asking for it for an one time extra fee of 30 . So I had to pay 150 for one hour which is what I always used to pay at Atmos during the past couple of years.
Regards.
Ben.Some girls will take advantage of and charge extra for BBBJ that is sure to happen some girls will also refuse BBBJ so now it will depend on the girl.
No, I have given Durex too many 2nd chances. And only the London brand is worse than Durex. Durex had one condom that was just 'ok' some years ago. With mint flavor and tingle. But I haven't seen that in years now.
I am at the stage where I leave the room 50% of the time if they refuse to use another brand than London. And I will probably start the same with durex soon...Sagami 0.01 mm is the best, but you are right about material being different to one you prefer and I use another one called just fit which is about 0.03 mm, but just fit and it is good and convey the warmness of pussy.
Plus sagami 0.01 mm only make till size L and that do not fit my width, length is just fine. Where as just fit actually just fit nicely, so I recommend.
Polyamorist
07-06-17, 14:17
You are bang on about the girls not knowing how to put condoms on. They will stretch them and then wiggle them on over your shaft, often overlapping the layers.Sometimes the more inexperienced ones will just manage to get a condom over the tip of my member and no further. They will be like *shrug* Just stick it in anyway.
If girls are being ordered by the State to use condoms but not shown how to use them, surely they are being given a false sense of safety? Against the deadly dangers streaming from our uncovered dicks, LOL.
The least they could do is send in a female police officer to each FKK to demonstrate the correct manner of putting on a condom and administering a blowjob. Not forgetting the education of the punters either.
Citizen Kane
07-06-17, 17:55
Why does the thickness of condom even matter? 0.01 or 0.02, you are still covering your penis no matter what!0.01 vs 0.02.
Sometimes the more inexperienced ones will just manage to get a condom over the tip of my member and no further. They will be like *shrug* Just stick it in anyway.
If girls are being ordered by the State to use condoms but not shown how to use them, surely they are being given a false sense of safety? Against the deadly dangers streaming from our uncovered dicks, LOL.
The least they could do is send in a female police officer to each FKK to demonstrate the correct manner of putting on a condom and administering a blowjob. Not forgetting the education of the punters either.The last girl who tried to give me a CBJ wound up having the condom slip in her pussy. Wound up giving her BAREBACK sex for a good 5 minutes before she caught on. So getting back to the topic of getting a female police officer into each FKK to demonstrate the correct manner of putting on a condom and administering a proper blowjob, we fantasize about getting that hot blonde in a PVC police woman outfit. In REALITY, you'll probably get a "Broomhilda". I don't think you would want her anywhere near your penis! LOL!
FiddyCent.
The last girl who tried to give me a CBJ wound up having the condom slip in her pussy. Wound up giving her BAREBACK sex for a good 5 minutes before she caught on. So getting back to the topic of getting a female police officer into each FKK to demonstrate the correct manner of putting on a condom and administering a proper blowjob, we fantasize about getting that hot blonde in a PVC police woman outfit. In REALITY, you'll probably get a "Broomhilda". I don't think you would want her anywhere near your penis! LOL!
FiddyCent.What you need to understand is that Broomhilda will have a very hard time demonstrating a condom on a penis as the penis will turn limp immediately. So a PVC fit big titted cute Barbarella cop is a necessity!
Polyamorist
07-07-17, 20:54
So a PVC fit big titted cute Barbarella cop is a necessity! 😂.Better ask the Berlin squad that were on duty at G20 in Hamburg before being sent home for partying too hard and enjoying strip tease.
"Photos that have been released show one female officer dancing on a table, dressed only in a bathrobe with a service weapon in her hand. ".
Better ask the Berlin squad that were on duty at G20 in Hamburg before being sent home for partying too hard and enjoying strip tease.
"Photos that have been released show one female officer dancing on a table, dressed only in a bathrobe with a service weapon in her hand. ".I will be awaiting Adrienne Kolesza next time I go to Germany. LOL.
(And you wonder why there were 900 Berlin cops showing up at Artemis that day last year? Lol!)
Neurosynth
07-08-17, 00:53
Health club Kinkaku-ji accepts non Japanese. Located near Akasaka cho.Yes, but are the girls actually Japanese?
And if so, do they squeal like the ones in Japanese porn?
What you need to understand is that Broomhilda will have a very hard time demonstrating a condom on a penis as the penis will turn limp immediately. So a PVC fit big titted cute Barbarella cop is a necessity! 😂.Hey Pistons.
In my dreams, we will have PVC clad, big titted Barbarella cop to demonstrate the proper application of the condom and subsequent CBJ. The unfortunate truth is your limp penis will get into that "Porky's" shower scene glory hole and the Broomhilda coach will grab and tug on your cock against your will and won't let go.
https://xhamster.com/movies/1551994/porkys_voyeur_gloryhole_shower_scene_solo_girls.html
FiddyCent.
Hey Pistons.
In my dreams, we will have PVC clad, big titted Barbarella cop to demonstrate the proper application of the condom and subsequent CBJ. The unfortunate truth is your limp penis will get into that "Porky's" shower scene glory hole and the Broomhilda coach will grab and tug on your cock against your will and won't let go.
https://xhamster.com/movies/1551994/porkys_voyeur_gloryhole_shower_scene_solo_girls.html
FiddyCent.I am already getting hard. LOL!
Well gents and maybe ladies,
I spotted two long reports on Artemis thread and Oase thread and CBJ began in those two venues.
I mean Nadja at Artemis suck on my naked dick and now only provide CBJ?
I think by this winter, I got bad feeling about German FKK BBBJ situation.
Mr Ho.
I have read the same for Samya.
MythoVirus
07-10-17, 21:08
Well gents and maybe ladies,
I spotted two long reports on Artemis thread and Oase thread and CBJ began in those two venues.
I mean Nadja at Artemis suck on my naked dick and now only provide CBJ?
I think by this winter, I got bad feeling about German FKK BBBJ situation.It seems Germany for the next 6-12 month is more or less a gamble, and from my POV if you don't sex monger often (by often at least once a month), it's better to choose a much stable location for the time being weather it's Austria, Switz, or the only 2 clubs at Netherlands borders.
It will never replace Germany FKK, but it will ease the withdraw symptoms. Once Germany is stable again then we should reasses the situation and decide if we can come back to our FKK home land, or we should cut it short, endure the pain, and accept the situation, and move on.
Polyamorist
07-10-17, 22:48
I spotted two long reports on Artemis thread and Oase thread and CBJ began in those two venues.
Hah. It does not surprise me that Artemis would be the first to fall. I have avoided it for years. The custard-livered pussies!
As an obsessive hobbyist, I have a big map of Germany in the basement and am sticking various pins and flags in it to mark the status of each FKK.
I mean Nadja at Artemis suck on my naked dick and now only provide CBJ?
Grim. Grim indeed. I know it must be hard for you but try to keep a stiff upper dick. They had it nearly as bad at FKK Guantanomo.
I think by this winter, I got bad feeling about German FKK BBBJ situation.The only hope is that the enemy will become overambitious and try to suppress BBBJ on all fronts at once and even in Holland and Austria. If they try to go that far, I predict that the merkel-BJ effort will collapse by December.
It seems Germany for the next 6-12 month is more or less a gamble, and from my POV if you don't sex monger often (by often at least once a month), it's better to choose a much stable location for the time being weather it's Austria, Switz, or the only 2 clubs at Netherlands borders.
It will never replace Germany FKK, but it will ease the withdraw symptoms. Once Germany is stable again then we should reasses the situation and decide if we can come back to our FKK home land, or we should cut it short, endure the pain, and accept the situation, and move on.The best advice I've seen yet! All the arguing, fussing, and fighting. Gee whiz! Well, glad I got a big trip in before the change!
I think by this winter, I got bad feeling about German FKK BBBJ situation.Well let's see what the tutes do when that income stream is diminished! Let us see what they do then! They're either going to start playing the "skin flute" or see their earnings plummet. No way do I go from getting sucked off the way beautiful, blonde German Lilia sucked me off at Artemis to settling on one CBJ after another. It's either my baby batter in and around those beautiful pink lips, or else I take my business elsewhere! We shall see. Let's see what the tutes do when that income starts to dry up from what they're used to. Let us see what they do then! Because this here monger knows what he's going to do!
Hmm first day was quiet, but second week ain't huh?
Well you guys are right, going to Germany now is gamble.
I have to wait till last minute to book ticket for this autumn / winter FKK trip because I might have to switch location.
At least Nadja at Artemis sucked my dick raw several time before, but she never was best provider so it make sense, she is real hot though.
Well I wonder how it is now at palace. Palace is more upsell than Artemis.
It seems Germany for the next 6-12 month is more or less a gamble, and from my POV if you don't sex monger often (by often at least once a month), it's better to choose a much stable location for the time being weather it's Austria, Switz, or the only 2 clubs at Netherlands borders.
It will never replace Germany FKK, but it will ease the withdraw symptoms. Once Germany is stable again then we should reasses the situation and decide if we can come back to our FKK home land, or we should cut it short, endure the pain, and accept the situation, and move on.For next 6 to 12 months only? Law is forever as of this moment on man LOL.
If this symptom spread to all girls, we are fucked.
MythoVirus
07-11-17, 21:08
For next 6 to 12 months only? Law is forever as of this moment on man LOL.
If this symptom spread to all girls, we are fucked.The law is here to stay for sure, what I meant after that period of 6-12 months everything will settle in each club, some clubs will consider BBBJ equivelant to shooting heroin to a vein, an absolute taboo, some clubs BBBJ will be available but not with all girls and an upsell will be common, and some clubs will be as if as the new law didn't exist.
At the present times you will observe drastic changes in FKK clubs as a jerk reaction to the new law, that doesn't mean the reaction will be permanent, some clubs / WG will continue with the acute reaction, and some clubs / WG will not.
Which club will fall within which catogry is difficult to predict, and we can argue about it as much as we want, but the real answer will not be available until then which is around 6-12 months, as at that time all clubs have registered, all WG would also have registered, and everyone at the sex industry will be aware of the existence of the law.
But having a law is something and practicing it fully is something else, many factors will pitch in that will affect how the law will be practiced, including the theoretical presence of pressure for the clubs and WG to provide BBBJ to sustain a good income cor both, how the consumers will interact with the law for example what % of mongers will be demanding BBBJ from WG (for example if only 1% of mongers demand it, then most likely there will be no BBBJ, in contrast to 90% of mongers demeaning it) how the police raids / inspections goes, etc.
So a 6-12 month period although not as absolute official duration, but it will be sufficient for the large wave to settle, and for us to connect the dots.
Member #4585
07-11-17, 23:46
For next 6 to 12 months only? Law is forever as of this moment on man LOL.
If this symptom spread to all girls, we are fucked.Right on man.
Well let's see what the tutes do when that income stream is diminished! Let us see what they do then! They're either going to start playing the "skin flute" or see their earnings plummet. No way do I go from getting sucked off the way beautiful, blonde German Lilia sucked me off at Artemis to settling on one CBJ after another. It's either my baby batter in and around those beautiful pink lips, or else I take my business elsewhere! We shall see. Let's see what the tutes do when that income starts to dry up from what they're used to. Let us see what they do then! Because this here monger knows what he's going to do!+1. I'm of the same sentiment, I'd take my two and a half inches elsewhere!
At the present times you will observe drastic changes in FKK clubs as a jerk reaction to the new law, that doesn't mean the reaction will be permanent, some clubs / WG will continue with the acute reaction, and some clubs / WG will not.
Agreed. Nice to hear someone that isn't panicking and over-reacting. In 6-12 months, we will know more. If the clubs are empty and the WGs aren't getting enough customers, desperation may settle in, and prices will stay at or near pre-July levels. Or newer prices and services, will be introduced and normalized. But my plan will to be to re-assess at that time, like you said.
UltraHappy
07-12-17, 02:18
+1. I'm of the same sentiment, I'd take my two and a half inches elsewhere!Under current conditions, Germany still beats all other options -- especially if you're into Romanian / Western-looking girls that is.
I haven't personally experienced any changes in services or prices throughout this July period, so from where I'm sitting, Germany still wins. Maybe things will change over the next year, but it's too early to predict such a deterioration. Some of the fears here are a bit premature.
Agreed. Nice to hear someone that isn't panicking and over-reacting. In 6-12 months, we will know more. If the clubs are empty and the WGs aren't getting enough customers, desperation may settle in, and prices will stay at or near pre-July levels. Or newer prices and services, will be introduced and normalized. But my plan will to be to re-assess at that time, like you said.A decease in customers is never good. The best girls will either leave the business or find other venues (escort). Quality is always commensurate with earnings potential. You can always find skanks who will do anything for a little, but they are not worth it for me.
Polyamorist
07-12-17, 19:03
Well let's see what the tutes do when that income stream is diminished! Let us see what they do then! They're either going to start playing the "skin flute" or see their earnings plummet. No way do I go from getting sucked off the way beautiful, blonde German Lilia sucked me off at Artemis to settling on one CBJ after another. It's either my baby batter in and around those beautiful pink lips, or else I take my business elsewhere!There are few who could read this and not be moved. It expresses a gaping need in men's hearts with poetic immediacy. If only such a speech could be read out loud during a session of the Bundestag, a tear would come to the eye of even the most hardened feminist and the law would be repealed forthwith.
There are few who could read this and not be moved. It expresses a gaping need in men's hearts with poetic immediacy. If only such a speech could be read out loud during a session of the Bundestag, a tear would come to the eye of even the most hardened feminist and the law would be repealed forthwith.Time for Ted Talk?
A decease in customers is never good. The best girls will either leave the business or find other venues (escort).Yes, that is a possibility. There is risks on both sides of the buyer-seller equation. Too restrictive and expensive, customers walk away. Too little money, clubs close down and WGs quit, like you say. Not all, but many of the WGs, posture about how much they actually make. That's just what all good salespeople do. Both sides should aim to not to appear desperate. Both sides should aim to be patient.
I've talked to one WG about this before. She shows me her Whatsapp. She takes note of how quickly some customers respond to messages. She will send one message, customer will reply with ten messages. I joke, asking her if those are the ones she will ask for Western Union money. She laughs, but doesn't deny it.
Oase has seen a drastic increase in customers the last 4 years, due to emergence of Sharks. Did Oase lose all of its "best" girls?
Lots are worried about the availability of BBBJ and increasing prices, but I suspect the operators and WGs are just worried about customer backlash. They are just better at playing it cool. For us, this is just a hobby. For them, it is their livelihood.
Yes, that is a possibility. There is risks on both sides of the buyer-seller equation. Too restrictive and expensive, customers walk away. Too little money, clubs close down and WGs quit, like you say. Not all, but many of the WGs, posture about how much they actually make. That's just what all good salespeople do. Both sides should aim to not to appear desperate. Both sides should aim to be patient.
I've talked to one WG about this before. She shows me her Whatsapp. She takes note of how quickly some customers respond to messages. She will send one message, customer will reply with ten messages. I joke, asking her if those are the ones she will ask for Western Union money. She laughs, but doesn't deny it.
Oase has seen a drastic increase in customers the last 4 years, due to emergence of Sharks. Did Oase lose all of its "best" girls?
Lots are worried about the availability of BBBJ and increasing prices, but I suspect the operators and WGs are just worried about customer backlash. They are just better at playing it cool. For us, this is just a hobby. For them, it is their livelihood.The people who should be most worried are club owners. They have a big investment, and if customers and girls do not show up, they lose on both ends. As for WG, if there are enough customers and they are really in demand, they should not see much of a drop in earnings. However, the less than top girls will feel the effect. The top girls are always hard to book in clubs. Girls move around a lot for exactly that reason--looking for better hunting grounds. The Russian girls no longer show up at FKKs and many of the best German girls escort or go to Switzerland.
Member #4581
07-13-17, 12:53
The people who should be most worried are club owners. They have a big investment, and if customers and girls do not show up, they lose on both ends. As for WG, if there are enough customers and they are really in demand, they should not see much of a drop in earnings. However, the less than top girls will feel the effect. The top girls are always hard to book in clubs. Girls move around a lot for exactly that reason--looking for better hunting grounds. The russian girls no longer show up at FKKs and many of the best German girls escort or go to Switzerland.Club owners make money from foot traffic, and don't participate in the economics of sessions. If a guy and girl simply show up but don't session, club makes money but the girl doesn't. So, owners have a huge incentive to keep up the traffic. Most of their expenses are fixed. Rent / mortgage, license and permit fees if any, interest expense, some amount of taxes (which probably scales with rev / profits though), employee salaries, etc. Sure, they have some expenses which decrease with declining foot traffic, but for the most part, they are very leveraged to the traffic trends, up and down both.
Obviously, they need to balance the risk that they could be shut down if they blatantly disregard all laws and regulations, but a fully compliant club with no traffic will also eventually shut down, due to weak finances. So, they might make a show of throwing out a few customers here and there to be seen as complying with the law, but if one club does this and others don't, and the club gains a bad reputation among customers, it will hurt. I don't believe that club owners are unaware of this risk.
Sure Jnpr, but as long as we don't start with the naming game it is fine. Like McA wrote here earlier, we all know drugs are found all over, but we don't write the name of the dealer all over a public well known internet discussion board. Just write BJ. No reason to add the C or the b in advance. After all these are very very childing abbreviations to begin with.
No way do I go from getting sucked off the way beautiful, blonde German Lilia sucked me off at Artemis to settling on one CBJ after another. It's either my baby batter in and around those beautiful pink lips, or else I take my business elsewhere! We shall see. Let's see what the tutes do when that income starts to dry up from what they're used to. Let us see what they do then! Because this here monger knows what he's going to do!Haha, it is real satisfying to realize how some of our favorite beauty from FKK haunt us in positive sense of word for rest of our life. They came into our life for set period of time, even one session and provided us memory that last forever. This is one real beautiful side of pro monger way of life.
And as you mentioned, do we replace that with some CBJ now? Hell no, we pro monger will set our sail and sail into other foreign land. Let us see how this law affect German FKK BBBJ. I will give one more shot I think depending on report and if that attempt was not good, then I sailed away into Austria first then in worst case scenario financially, Zurich.
Member #4581
07-13-17, 23:42
as long as we don't start with the naming game it is fine...
All due respect, but pretty much 100% of the name calling originated from the key board of one member who continues to belittle anyone who disagrees with his view in a derogatory manner. Your comment would be better directed at that person. Mongers have and will continue to report as they see fit when they visit these clubs, and no amount of badgering will change that.
All due respect, but pretty much 100% of the name calling originated from the key board of one member who continues to belittle anyone who disagrees with his view in a derogatory manner. Your comment would be better directed at that person. Mongers have and will continue to report as they see fit when they visit these clubs, and no amount of badgering will change that.We have many of that here, but they mostly left. I once thought FKK, pro mongers are more of freedom thinking, but it clearly wasn't LOL.
Sebastiane
07-15-17, 13:53
I've read an interesting history of the Roma people and it got me wondering how many of the Romanian girls in FKKs are of this people. Anyone have any idea?
I've read an interesting history of the Roma people and it got me wondering how many of the Romanian girls in FKKs are of this people. Anyone have any idea?It would only be guesstimates as some girls lie about it too. But two points worth mentioning is 1. Roma people loves to party and have fun. So without them it would be more boring. And 2. You can look for their cultural dresses. Some Roma girls are excellent in the room (Denisa at Oase comes to mind), while others might be more reserved. Just like others.
I've read an interesting history of the Roma people and it got me wondering how many of the Romanian girls in FKKs are of this people. Anyone have any idea?Many, but they are not Romanian or Roma. They are Spanish or Italian who speak Romanian language LOL.
It would only be guesstimates as some girls lie about it too. But two points worth mentioning is 1. Roma people loves to party and have fun. So without them it would be more boring. And 2. You can look for their cultural dresses. Some Roma girls are excellent in the room (Denisa at Oase comes to mind), while others might be more reserved. Just like others.Mr Piston,
You wrote me in message, I replied, but it said your inbox is full, so I reply here below.
Hahah, I wonder how famous German table front of smoking room will behave with recent law changes LOL The shark of the sharks in German FKK industry. I can imagine they would take every opportunity to upsell.
I hope those girls still offer BBBJ with reasonable upsell with longer session.
I am going to stay away from FKK till November or December. I want to see which city is still best for BBBJ. If it does not look promising, I move to Austria or Zurich.
Let me know the BBBJ situation in Palace after you go, then if that club is ok, then we are still safe to get BBBJ anywhere in German FKK LOL.
On the side note, I hear hamburg FKK offer many German stunners, but I also heard that hamburg FKK is as or even more upsell than palace.
I was there on a Monday, 10 hot girls, decent free food and alcohol all night. Great attitude from the ladies, no pushy rude girls. For 130 Euro you get entry, food and booze and sex with 2 girls. 50 euro per girl after that. This place is great! Way better value than Andiamo and Wellcum.
Girls at Wellcum are a bit GT Bruggen or Oceans type, many silicon, not fresh in the business. Only Natali. Hu ex Paradise Sarrebrucken really did worth for my 3 visits. No room for my last visit. Can watch beautiful Carinthians mountains when You are in small garden with swimming pool.
Girls at Andiamo are more fresh Romanians.
Good foods for both.
Also Casa Carinthia not far. 3 brothels on Italian border. Staff speak more Italian than German.
I was there on a Monday, 10 hot girls, decent free food and alcohol all night. Great attitude from the ladies, no pushy rude girls. For 130 Euro you get entry, food and booze and sex with 2 girls. 50 euro per girl after that. This place is great! Way better value than Andiamo and Wellcum.Thanks for info. I am going to the area in a few weeks, but was initially only interested in wellcum. What is your take on Andiamo compared to Wellcum now? And is the Andiamo renovation done by now? Rumors had it it was like a construction yard a few months ago.
Casa Carinthia I didn't hear about before now and their website is under construction. So no info on the facilities. How are they? Worth spending a whole day at the place? And how about swimming pool, outdoor areas, sauna, steamroom, yacuuzis etc?
All For Bb
07-23-17, 05:02
I believe, July and August are vacation time for FKK girls. When usually they come back to FKK? Mid Sepertember, say 9/16?
Thanks!
Member #4585
07-23-17, 07:50
I believe, July and August are vacation time for FKK girls. When usually they come back to FKK? Mid Sepertember, say 9/16?
Thanks!There is a possibility that a number will not return to work in Germany.
Already some girls say that they have a deadline to register that they are prostitutes with the police.
Then there is the need to receive training on how to correctly put on a condom on a penis to receive a certificate tgat they have passed which is another piece of documentation that the girls need.
Then also making an in call to the German tax authorities to pay taxes properly by making a tax return.
Then there is the visit to a guidance counsellor to discuss alternative work besides prostitution by assessing what skills the girl has and what her aspirations are and what she would be interested to learn.
So a bit of a palaver. I know some have said that this has to happen by 31 Dec in the legislation but the dates for some girls is like a little bit earlier than that so its happening already.
There is a possibility that a number will not return to work in Germany.
Already some girls say that they have a deadline to register that they are prostitutes with the police.
Then there is the need to receive training on how to correctly put on a condom on a penis to receive a certificate tgat they have passed which is another piece of documentation that the girls need.
Then also making an in call to the German tax authorities to pay taxes properly by making a tax return.
Then there is the visit to a guidance counsellor to discuss alternative work besides prostitution by assessing what skills the girl has and what her aspirations are and what she would be interested to learn.
So a bit of a palaver. I know some have said that this has to happen by 31 Dec in the legislation but the dates for some girls is like a little bit earlier than that so its happening already.All this stuff is just going to kill the industry in Germany as we know it. Any girl who would willingly go through all of this stuff definitely won't turn around and give you a BBBJ in the end LOL! Already getting into the proper mindset to look elsewhere for fun.
There is a possibility that a number will not return to work in Germany.
Already some girls say that they have a deadline to register that they are prostitutes with the police.
Then there is the need to receive training on how to correctly put on a condom on a penis to receive a certificate tgat they have passed which is another piece of documentation that the girls need.
Then also making an in call to the German tax authorities to pay taxes properly by making a tax return.
Then there is the visit to a guidance counsellor to discuss alternative work besides prostitution by assessing what skills the girl has and what her aspirations are and what she would be interested to learn.
So a bit of a palaver. I know some have said that this has to happen by 31 Dec in the legislation but the dates for some girls is like a little bit earlier than that so its happening already.Fvck me, only the bloody Kraut bureaucrats could come up with bullscheisse like this!! Even the Limey vermin haven't sank to this level!!
With any luck, their gestapo will be too busy chasing muzslimes after the next terror attacks, especially if some of them are victims.
Cane. And as if it's not bad enough already, Das Bild is now running a so called expose of sex advertising sites, claiming shocking evidence of trafficking and so on. Das Bild bends with the wind, so it's clear it's wondering how much further the crackdown will go in a few years.
I'm not giving up yet, not until I find I can't get the services I want.
Cane. And as if it's not bad enough already, Das Bild is now running a so called expose of sex advertising sites, claiming shocking evidence of trafficking and so on. Das Bild bends with the wind, so it's clear it's wondering how much further the crackdown will go in a few years.
I'm not giving up yet, not until I find I can't get the services I want.Optimist. Let us stay Optimistic, it ain't over till its over LOL.
I was there on a Monday, 10 hot girls, decent free food and alcohol all night. Great attitude from the ladies, no pushy rude girls. For 130 Euro you get entry, food and booze and sex with 2 girls. 50 euro per girl after that. This place is great! Way better value than Andiamo and Wellcum.I m not interested by free alcohol, not good for bike climbing, I prefer milk or cyprine from girls cumming. I m also not interested by GND, but beauties have no rate for me, just depends on pleasure.
1 year later, I remember 5 pretty girls at Wellcum, I wish to play again with blond Natali. Hu, maybe also with Virginia. Ro if they are still there, I won't repeat with Anna but a real Italian beautiful woman, and really wish superb Ina. Ro discovered at Aca, will really return to Wellcum. Even I will have my holidays in Dolomiti and Carinthia for Mortirolo, Stelvio, Gavia, Zoncolan and Grosser Oscheniksee to perform in climbing, I could drive from Paris only for a rare woman like Ina in FKK. I will just have to be more professional, between Wellcum and maybe Andiamo, and my climbing, if I want to improve my performances, and I go for this aim, but wishing to recover, enjoying with Ina.
Optimist. Let us stay Optimistic, it ain't over till its over LOL.But it feels like lots of fat ladies has sung.
Optimist. Let us stay Optimistic, it ain't over till its over LOL.Exactly. I intend to explore all opportunities I can to get the level and type of service I want. I would encourage everybody to keep exploring. There are plenty of great providers doing all sorts of services.
Given some reports are good in autumn time.
Well I will try out Germany one more tIme, if BBBJ is quite easy to achieve with all girls, I continue to go to Germany.
Too much upselling I move to Zurich or Austria.
I do not want to be bothered with all the negotiation and cheap tricks, I am on holiday and not business trip.
BadinSweet
07-25-17, 02:08
OMG, what a drama. As some of you may remember, earlier this year I went with this one superstar at one FKK club. Though I always enjoy my time with her, the dramas that come with her fans club member outside the room, particularly this one guy, you know who you are and what you just did, are just not worth it. So, for the record, I am no longer a member of her fans club. I am not a friend on her FB, Instagram, or WhatsApp.
Just a warning to others and note to myself, for a second time, don't trust anyone! What you say to someone in a private message, he will use it for his advantage. Why get jealous when you know she has so many clients. And if you see a trend that many girls that both you and I go with like me more than you, maybe it's not me nor the girls. Maybe it's your fault with all the dramas and headaches that they have to put up with you!
Indeed there is drama and not just the girls believe they can take 'ownership' of customers, but also some punters consider some girls 'theirs'. I have noticed this also and find it a bit funny to be honest. One girl last month told me how she didn't want more 'boyfriends'. She was just too sick of all the drama and all the guys who thought they were special and believed they were her boyfriends. We had a great laugh about it. I was not that much into her wanting something more like that. But was just trying to get into the right mood just for 30 minutes and started roleplaying. Good looking girl with good integrity and service. But some guys are living in a bubble for sure. There is a difference between a 1 HR session relationship and a marriage. The girl is probably a top 1-3 hyped girl in one of the top 10 most talked about clubs here on the forum, but I won't write a name.
Citizen Kane
07-25-17, 17:34
There is a difference between a 1 HR session relationship and a marriage.Some guys just aren't ready for the level of commitment that is required for a 1 hour session.
Some guys just aren't ready for the level of commitment that is required for a 1 hour session.I know, I know. I think it is rumored to be called 'the limp dick syndrome'. Very nasty indeed!
Member #4581
07-26-17, 02:17
Some guys just aren't ready for the level of commitment that is required for a 1 hour session.One hour is too much. If I wanted that kinda long term relationship, I will go find a nice girl at a church or a library.
BadinSweet
07-26-17, 02:36
BTW, thanks guy for the PM. Nothing major from my post. I think I will be OK and probably better off not dealing with him and possibly his girl (s). Less headache for me.
Indeed there is drama and not just the girls believe they can take 'ownership' of customers, but also some punters consider some girls 'theirs'. I have noticed this also and find it a bit funny to be honest. One girl last month told me how she didn't want more 'boyfriends'. She was just too sick of all the drama and all the guys who thought they were special and believed they were her boyfriends. We had a great laugh about it. I was not that much into her wanting something more like that. But was just trying to get into the right mood just for 30 minutes and started roleplaying. Good looking girl with good integrity and service. But some guys are living in a bubble for sure. There is a difference between a 1 HR session relationship and a marriage. The girl is probably a top 1-3 hyped girl in one of the top 10 most talked about clubs here on the forum, but I won't write a name.Yeah, girls tell me a lot of things and I sometimes find it amusing with some guys. I always do a "money test" on myself. If I ask the girls whom I really like to go hangout, coffee, lunch, dinner, or overnight, etc. If they don't take or want any money then I know that they like me or at least enjoying my company. I guess I have been fortunate that the girls that I really like I become good friends with them. Don't get me wrong, I do get jealous sometimes but think with your big head people. Anyways, enough with my rant. Back to the BBBJ issue, LOL.
We have to learn from our experiences. I learned from Megan and Kate Aca being bullshit about me, but keeping on trusting me because they knew my behavior for long time with them, Megan even following many times my advices for free, as you give when you like somebody.
When I understood my LR girl was told by a German guy I went with Kate on Aca 9th birthday party which was on a Saturday and she already knew on Sunday when I started her day, so she didn't like when was asking me not to go with other girls, like some others also asked or thought. Then, I also understood she spoke about me with her other clients, not only claiming to other girls I came only for her. All LR staff also knew I came only for her, like World staff knew on Winter 2014/2015. When I asked her why she need to speak about me with other clients, she answered she prefer to speak to waste maximum time in room, but not at all her behavior for our rooms, maybe because I always told her I don t pay for time to speak, I pay because I want her, when some pay to chat for hours, some even pay to sleep stuck to the girl who can't sleep and is bored waiting. But all this talkative business gave me a idea: To use this forum. Of course, I say to her and write her what I think about her way for business and nobody would dare and I think she would not accept from anybody else to be said so, but she keeps on asking if I will come, and now come back, because she knows how I always treated her in room, but the most funny is to write knowing she will be told, even with messages sent at night when she is at home in Romania, so I have to apologize she is woken up because of my writings or my visits at LR, even not my messages, and of course, as she doesn't like what she is told, she told me back, so I asked her: Why this guy needs to tell you all what I do, can t he just fuck You in room? Her answer: he and her prefer to speak, so she save her vagina, speaking about me to food his jealousy and I said to her she lost her charm for me.
A week end very regular at Sharks seemed also to be jealous about Megan who came straight to me, I didn't need to run after her all day, but Zurich seem now too far for him.
Funny stories in clubs, but I'm not interested to visit girls or to go to ski in Romania, even better snow than in Western Europe, and not even out of clubs. I m not interested by girls fucked by anybody, only pleasure for game, but not my image for women. Also too many lies, but little guys are even worst than WGs for bullshit.
Low level world, not many Nobel Awards among WGs and clients. No friend in this world.
Don't get me wrong, I do get jealous sometimes but think with your big head people.Why? Some guys gets turned on watching other guys fuck girls too. Orgy style. So I don't see how this can be conflicting minds.
BadinSweet
07-26-17, 21:21
I think it's normal human behavior. If you really really like someone it's only human nature to not like seeing someone with the person you like. I am sure someone can related to this. I am only saying to think with the big picture and remind yourself that it's part of their job. Don't go act out all crazy.
Yes, but you are still allowed to think with your little one. LOL.
Love and emotion in German FKK is A. K. A money LOL.
I would not say all the way, but it is purely based on money and it really client girl relationship.
When one forget. It lead to some insane things, like what happened in I think out side of dolce vita last year or two years ago.
I pay to fuck not to have relation with girls in FKK, it is last thing one should want.
BadinSweet
07-27-17, 00:26
To all you local people, is there a good place to look for a temporary apartment rental? I am looking for at least 2-3 weeks rental. I don't need anything special, just a bed, good highspeed internet and a parking space for my car. I will be in Germany to pickup my car and figure I will work from there for a couple weeks. I know the girls pay like less than 1 K for their apartment rental. I know there is airBnB but looking for a place that people can normally rent short term. Thank you for any inputs. Oh, I am looking for apartment in Frankfurt or Dusseldorf area. Since I have a car, it doesn't have to be in the city. Thanks.
To all you local people, is there a good place to look for a temporary apartment rental? I am looking for at least 2-3 weeks rental. I don't need anything special, just a bed, good highspeed internet and a parking space for my car. I will be in Germany to pickup my car and figure I will work from there for a couple weeks. I know the girls pay like less than 1 K for their apartment rental. I know there is airBnB but looking for a place that people can normally rent short term. Thank you for any inputs. Oh, I am looking for apartment in Frankfurt or Dusseldorf area. Since I have a car, it doesn't have to be in the city. Thanks.Air be and be for your security. Arguably.
Sebastiane
07-27-17, 01:40
So it seems the world hasn't ended after July 1st after all.
Polyamorist
07-27-17, 18:54
I'd like to take a poll on whether guys like the "no approach" rule that some FKKs have? Would you favor those clubs over others?
I'm especially interested in hearing the opinions of members who have high service standards (as I think I do, comparatively speaking).
I'm especially interested in hearing the opinions of members who have high service standards (as I think I do, comparatively speaking).Good luck at finding a single person saying he has low service standards. LOL!
I think most want the right girls to approach at the right moment.
I think it's normal human behavior. If you really really like someone it's only human nature to not like seeing someone with the person you like. I am sure someone can related to this. I am only saying to think with the big picture and remind yourself that it's part of their job. Don't go act out all crazy.Doesn't AirBnB have a negotiation option for longer term rentals? That might be your best bet.
Google "serviced apartments" or "corporate rentals" maybe. But these would probably be starting at 1500 EUR a month.
So it seems the world hasn't ended after July 1st after all.No it has not ended, but it changed, not drastically, but it planted seed for drastic change. I hate this feeling of fear now, so it is good to know there is safety net called Zurich or Vienna.
I was thinking something, I usually pay 100 or 120 euro in German FKK for one hour to have good session, which is now close enough to 140 chf.
In this one hour I usually am in action for about 40 min or little more, rest are like talking or chilling in bed.
Given that, at globe 30 min s 30 min and DFK, BBBJ with passionate sex is included without negotiation or any worry for empty promise, it might be wise for me to shift to globe.
It is something about German FKK though that attract me more, but without BBBJ or hustle to get BBBJ, then it won't be worth the effort, I loved this freedom feeling before session of getting BBBJ.
It is good to know BBBJ is still quite easy to get. I hope it last.
I'd like to take a poll on whether guys like the "no approach" rule that some FKKs have? Would you favor those clubs over others?
I'm especially interested in hearing the opinions of members who have high service standards (as I think I do, comparatively speaking).You referring to the hand band color at Palace? That thing do not work, but I opt for approach now.
Its annoying but gives me negotiation power if one I want do approach.
BadinSweet
07-28-17, 05:02
Thanks McAdonis, Mr Ho. Yes, AirBnB has some discount when you book long term. Wow, these service apartments are 1500+. I know a couple girls where their apartment monthly rent is like less than1 K. I thought this can be easily search online. I guess I will check with them then. Thanks again.
No it has not ended, but it changed, not drastically, but it planted seed for drastic change. I hate this feeling of fear now, so it is good to know there is safety net called Zurich or Vienna.
I was thinking something, I usually pay 100 or 120 euro in German FKK for one hour to have good session, which is now close enough to 140 chf.
In this one hour I usually am in action for about 40 min or little more, rest are like talking or chilling in bed.
Given that, at globe 30 min s 30 min and DFK, BBBJ with passionate sex is included without negotiation or any worry for empty promise, it might be wise for me to shift to globe.
It is something about German FKK though that attract me more, but without BBBJ or hustle to get BBBJ, then it won't be worth the effort, I loved this freedom feeling before session of getting BBBJ.
It is good to know BBBJ is still quite easy to get. I hope it last.Don't be afraid of your own shadow about new law, no camera nor Polizei under bed, life goes on, still enjoyable with good girls who will to please you because they just wish you to repeat, with good manners, nothing changed, even with first time girls. Just avoid fucking tourists girls, but like before.
In Switzerland, not only Globe, and not always the best casting, compare to History sometimes. History is 100 for 30 mn and even 63 without kissing. In both, you can have playful social time and shower together after paying. In Switzerland, girls are polite and smiling, that is rules for their job.
But Germany is still very enjoyable for me, always finding new GF, only in club of course.
I'd like to take a poll on whether guys like the "no approach" rule that some FKKs have? Would you favor those clubs over others?
I'm especially interested in hearing the opinions of members who have high service standards (as I think I do, comparatively speaking).In all my years of mongering, I have seen no nexus whatsoever between approach / no approach and quality of service provided. Yes, sometimes it can be annoying, but not always. In the end, I'm all for girls being able to approach. That's just a more natural mode of human interaction when it comes to meeting and greeting other people. Pretty girls just standing around waiting to be approached makes it feel to me like being in a store and picking items up off of a shelf. That is too routine, mechanical, and dull for me. Let's mingle ladies!
Thanks McAdonis, Mr Ho. Yes, AirBnB has some discount when you book long term. Wow, these service apartments are 1500+. I know a couple girls where their apartment monthly rent is like less than1 K. I thought this can be easily search online. I guess I will check with them then. Thanks again.Yes, often at below of add on air be and be tells you discount of around 20 to 30 % for weekly or monthly stay in one apartment. It really depend.
For your safety, it is wise to use rather more reputable service like air be and be, you never know which host you are walking in to and sleeping in LOL.
You do not want your host to turn the apartment into FKK for him LOL.
Polyamorist
07-28-17, 13:26
You referring to the hand band color at Palace? That thing do not work, but I opt for approach now.
Its annoying but gives me negotiation power if one I want do approach.Salaam Mr Ho, some clubs are completely no-approach, for example Bernd's (strict) and Aca Velbert (less well enforced). I don't know about Palace, what color band do most guys favor?
As for me, I sometimes like it if girls approach me, it can be flattering. I only dislike it if they approach me in an aggressive way that would never work and suggests they are just letting off steam -- like grabbing onto me or whining, "Why you no go with me?" It all depends on the quality of the girls really.
However, if a club is strictly no-approach, it does at least suggest that the girls are being supervised in some way, which is a good thing.
Salami! I personally prefer it when the girls approach. In fact I'd like it if they approached even more than at the busiest clubs. However the sad thing is that sometimes it is the less pretty girls who approaches the most because they get less rooms. Fortunately sometimes when lucky a stunner is also a huntress. Aksena at Artemis hunts a lot for example. And Meggie's at both Oceans and Palace do the same. Same with Brianna at Oase.
Polyamorist
07-28-17, 19:04
Salami! I personally prefer it when the girls approach. In fact I'd like it if they approached even more than at the busiest clubs. However the sad thing is that sometimes it is the less pretty girls who approaches the most because they get less rooms.True, maybe this is the main problem that "no-approach" is meant to address. It's too easy to get the wrong impression of a club if you are bombarded with bad offers from the start.
Fortunately sometimes when lucky a stunner is also a huntress. Aksena at Artemis hunts a lot for example. And Meggie's at both Oceans and Palace do the same. Same with Brianna at Oase.Another problem is when a pretty girl approaches you when you first visit an FKK and you can't take her because of even better options and she treats you like a lost cause for the rest of your life. Well, it's not a problem if you visit the FKK only once or twice, but if you make multiple trips in a short period, you can really feel the cumulative negative effect, the chill from girls who are proud and offended, no matter how polite you were in turning them down. I think they need to be more easy going. They would get more business.
Another problem is when a pretty girl approaches you when you first visit an FKK and you can't take her because of even better options and she treats you like a lost cause for the rest of your life. Well, it's not a problem if you visit the FKK only once or twice, but if you make multiple trips in a short period, you can really feel the cumulative negative effect, the chill from girls who are proud and offended, no matter how polite you were in turning them down. I think they need to be more easy going. They would get more business.Salami! Yes, but not always due to 'better options'. Sometimes you just cannot uck again after 10 minutes. We are not robots, LOL!
Wow, these service apartments are 1500+. I know a couple girls where their apartment monthly rent is like less than1 K. Are these WGs signing a one year lease for a normal flat? In Europe they have a study abroad program. So a student from Spain might go to Germany for two months to study. Sometimes these people sign a one year lease to get the best price for a flat, but after two months, they find another student who will take over their lease, then they move back to their home country.
The benefit of a service apartment is that there is no commitment, minimal security deposits, no setup, and professionally managed. They target corporate customers. Generally a company will need to bring in an employee for a 2-3 month project. Or an employee is relocating and needs a place to live while they look for a permanent residence. A company with many employees that uses the same service apartment will get a bulk discount. Sometimes the nightly rate is different depending on how many nights the customer is willing to commit to upfront.
If you wanted to book a WG for one month (720 hours), would you pay her her 72000 EUR? I sure hope not.
If you wanted to book a WG for one month (720 hours), would you pay her her 72000 EUR? I sure hope not.Surprisingly from my sources there are Dubai sugar daddy's that'll pay about that amount per month.
Come on, you really believe the girls when they tell you the price of their apartment rents? Sale school 101 tells you not to trust a seller on these topics.
Most girls don't live alone. They share the apartment with perhaps 1 or 2 other girls. And going by market rates for student flats, it shouldn't cost them more than perhaps 500 euro a month per person. Plus electricity, internet and so on.
BadinSweet
07-28-17, 21:50
No, I don't believe this is one year lease as the girls sometime come and go. But the apartment / hotel are not in the city either. They are like in Langen, Offenbach, Hanau, etc. But still close enough to the clubs. Thanks for the info though. I will probably go with AirBnB then, in case I want to move around from FRA to DUS.
If I have to pay 72000 E it better come with the apartment stay where she does all the cooking and cleaning.
If I have to pay 72000 E it better come with the apartment stay where she does all the cooking and cleaning.Having tasted a few WG's cooking skills, I rather not have them cook. Kitchen sex can be fun though.
Salaam Mr Ho, some clubs are completely no-approach, for example Bernd's (strict) and Aca Velbert (less well enforced). I don't know about Palace, what color band do most guys favor?
As for me, I sometimes like it if girls approach me, it can be flattering. I only dislike it if they approach me in an aggressive way that would never work and suggests they are just letting off steam -- like grabbing onto me or whining, "Why you no go with me?" It all depends on the quality of the girls really.
However, if a club is strictly no-approach, it does at least suggest that the girls are being supervised in some way, which is a good thing.Salaam habibi Well put it this way, girls often say Hi baby kind of way to me saying they are from Spain or Italy, I often reject them very politely, then they curse at me in Romanians and go away LOL.
Then! They come back and tells me Hi baby again after 30 minutes LOL these girls have memory of gold fish LOL.
Polyamorist
07-29-17, 10:43
Salami! Yes, but not always due to 'better options'. Sometimes you just cannot uck again after 10 minutes. We are not robots, LOL!Salami?! It better be halal!
So it seems many people think the "no approach" rule is too draconian. I have another suggestion though. What about a no-ask-to-go-to-room rule? I don't mind a girl approaching me and some great sessions have resulted. But if a girl approaches and the first thing she says is "Zimmer?" you know it's going to be a mediocre session. I think all experienced mongers know this, am I wrong?
If the girl chats with you for a few minutes and then suggests a room, it's probably going to be good. But the best sessions I have had have been the ones where the girl didn't suggest it at all. The girls who acted like they just wanted to hang out with me forever. And sometimes then I am the one to get bored. Point proven! Let's get it on girl!
So that is why I propose the rule: a girl should never ask to go to a room. Maybe it's just attacking the symptoms but sometimes that helps.
Salami?! It better be halal!Salami is never halal M8. Pure organic pork! (Not that I eat much meat at all. I am quite the health junkie. Chicken is actually more unhealthy though. And the halal method is fake news.).
So that is why I propose the rule: a girl should never ask to go to a room. Maybe it's just attacking the symptoms but sometimes that helps.But you know what will happen right?
Girl: "so? What do you want to do now?
Member #4581
07-29-17, 14:20
Even when people book a girl for just one day, they are paying 800 to a grand in most cases, which comes to a discount of 60% to 65% from stated rate. I know some mongers mentioned they have booked girls for longer periods, a few days to a few weeks for example, but never mentioned any rates. I would think the discount rate should expand the longer you book, no? Say, 80% discount brings to roughly 14 grand a month -- Is that how much a relatively popular girl would make in a month, after entry fee? Not sure but my guess is that many girls might take such an offer (if they like and trust the guy).
Mr Ho and Cane are always telling us to outsource sex, and even Syzy said that many times. When you look at the above 14 K calculation, many rich guys are spending multiple times that much for their wives, and in a cold calculated way, perhaps Cane and MrH are right. Becker paid several million for a few minutes of bath rooom sex (and she looks hideous, he clearly needs better tastes) and now is bankrupt. There was this billionaire called Wildenstein who paid something like 3 billion for 20 years of marriage at the time of divorce, which comes to more than 15K per hour.
Salami?! It better be halal!
So it seems many people think the "no approach" rule is too draconian. I have another suggestion though. What about a no-ask-to-go-to-room rule? I don't mind a girl approaching me and some great sessions have resulted. But if a girl approaches and the first thing she says is "Zimmer?" you know it's going to be a mediocre session. I think all experienced mongers know this, am I wrong?
If the girl chats with you for a few minutes and then suggests a room, it's probably going to be good. But the best sessions I have had have been the ones where the girl didn't suggest it at all. The girls who acted like they just wanted to hang out with me forever. And sometimes then I am the one to get bored. Point proven! Let's get it on girl!
So that is why I propose the rule: a girl should never ask to go to a room. Maybe it's just attacking the symptoms but sometimes that helps.Good points, but I love bring approached no matter how they do it.
When I go to the clubs I will most probably see several women that I'm attracted by, if one of those come up to me with a bad attitude I can easily dismiss her. If I have to approach every women that I might want to session with I will most likely have to approach several women which I won't session with or take to the room and won't have a good time with because I felt obligated to pick her because I approached her.
Even when people book a girl for just one day, they are paying 800 to a grand in most cases, which comes to a discount of 60% to 65% from stated rate. I know some mongers mentioned they have booked girls for longer periods, a few days to a few weeks for example, but never mentioned any rates. I would think the discount rate should expand the longer you book, no? Say, 80% discount brings to roughly 14 grand a month -- Is that how much a relatively popular girl would make in a month, after entry fee? Not sure but my guess is that many girls might take such an offer (if they like and trust the guy).There isn't a simple discount formula for WGs. Even in my little sample of long term bookings the range is huge. For example rates for an weekend (3 day) booking for my Sharks girl is around 1 k per day but include overnights. In LR it's only 500 per day. I would say in terms of quality the girls are similar. Although I would say the LR girl likes a lot more but I like the Sharks girl more. I even booked a couple GT girls for 4 days for 500 each per day without overnights, but it was a twin deal and they were really good friends and worked really well together for me to pass up. A couple years ago at Artemis I also had a weekend twin deal for 700 each per day. That was probably the best weekend I've ever had those WGs were down for anything and was super horny for each other. Best paid group sex in all my 3 years of FKKing around. It was wet every where.
And that's just the rates for me. The same girls would charge other men differently with the same time. Same girl would charge a Dubai guy for 10 k per day for 10 days in Dubai (no condoms allowed)! She would also charge someone nothing for a week of creampie marathons in Seychelles. The guy had to pay for the trip obviously.
The world of long term booking have huge ranges. A lot depends on how much the girls actually likes you.
Even when people book a girl for just one day, they are paying 800 to a grand in most cases, which comes to a discount of 60% to 65% from stated rate. I know some mongers mentioned they have booked girls for longer periods, a few days to a few weeks for example, but never mentioned any rates. I would think the discount rate should expand the longer you book, no? Say, 80% discount brings to roughly 14 grand a month -- Is that how much a relatively popular girl would make in a month, after entry fee? Not sure but my guess is that many girls might take such an offer (if they like and trust the guy).
Mr Ho and Cane are always telling us to outsource sex, and even Syzy said that many times. When you look at the above 14 K calculation, many rich guys are spending multiple times that much for their wives, and in a cold calculated way, perhaps Cane and MrH are right. Becker paid several million for a few minutes of bath rooom sex (and she looks hideous, he clearly needs better tastes) and now is bankrupt. There was this billionaire called Wildenstein who paid something like 3 billion for 20 years of marriage at the time of divorce, which comes to more than 15K per hour.It's called being in love instead of fucking. There is a difference.
BadinSweet
07-29-17, 20:59
Come on, you really believe the girls when they tell you the price of their apartment rents? Sale school 101 tells you not to trust a seller on these topics.
Most girls don't live alone. They share the apartment with perhaps 1 or 2 other girls. And going by market rates for student flats, it shouldn't cost them more than perhaps 500 euro a month per person. Plus electricity, internet and so on.I don't see a reason why they need to lie about the apartment cost. It's not like I am renting an apartment from them. If they are going to lie about it I would think they would say that it is more expensive than they are paying. So, they can claim that they need money to pay for the rent, no money left, etc. Instead of saying it being so low. Keep in mind though that these are not like a typical apartment. Some are just a dingy hotel with small room and bathroom, dorm, etc.
I see some low daily rate in NRW on AirBnb. Maybe I will just migrate up there. Thanks everyone for the inputs.
No, I don't believe this is one year lease as the girls sometime come and go.Plenty of people have long term leases but "come and go". I have met one German FKKer who is married. He works in FRA maybe 5-10 days out of the month while his family lives three hours away. So he has a lease on a small flat that is only occupied a portion of the year.
Also it could also be one person officially on the lease but multiple people rotating in and out.
Here is an idea. Why don't you ask the WG you know to find a cheap, temporary flat for you? Tell her the more you can save on hotel costs, the more you can spend on her! Good luck.
I think it's normal human behavior. If you really really like someone it's only human nature to not like seeing someone with the person you like. I am sure someone can related to this. I am only saying to think with the big picture and remind yourself that it's part of their job. Don't go act out all crazy.If I like the WGs, I try to help them get more business. Most of the time, if I remember, I may even ask the customer to explicitly state that I was the one that directed business to the WG. The WG is always appreciative. This is not always selfish on my part. I have even referred WGs that I've never tried before. "That girl over there is Sandra. She is not my type, but I've never heard anything bad about her. ".
When a customer walks up and says "Hi Sandra. We never met before, but I heard from another customer that you are good in the room", I think that sends an indirect message: The customers talk to each other. It is a form of positive reinforcement that would hopefully encourage them to continue being top-performers (and not go to the dark side).
Problem is at many clubs, particularly touristic ones, the men are lone wolf, anti-social types, who are not interested in sharing information. So the scammers don't get punished, and the honest ones don't get rewarded.
If I like the WGs, I try to help them get more business. Most of the time, if I remember, I may even ask the customer to explicitly state that I was the one that directed business to the WG. The WG is always appreciative. This is not always selfish on my part. I have even referred WGs that I've never tried before. "That girl over there is Sandra. She is not my type, but I've never heard anything bad about her. ".That's how I see it too. The girls are in it for the money and we don't get any pay for it as opposed to what that silly ABC article was on about. All we get might at most be a better relationship with the girl (s). And why be possessive and selfish? Why not open and polygamous?
I understand that prosecution for BBBJ is only a minor offence similar to a parking or speeding ticket. However the fine of €50,000 is scary. . I believe the sex industry has an organisation to represent them. Why dos't the industry levy their members with a charge and say they will pay the fine for the first person successfully prosecuted up to €50,000.
Alternatively some enterprising insurance company could insure against the fine for what I believe could be a low charge. Or a gambling / betting company offer very good ods on you being prosecuted fined say over €1000. Where are all the lateral thinkers?
McAdonis. I always, like you, try to put business the way of a girl I like and think is good. I check with her first of course. As you say, the girls concerned always appreciate this: they'd rather have a publicist than a jealous guy trailing them (unless that guy has the money to buy them for the day). I also let other less reliable guys take "my" girl first, so she appreciates that, and when she goes with me she often has already made her target for the day.
Badin. The girls concerned always like it if I tell them I was just a tiny bit jealous waiting. They think this is as you say, normal. And most girls like the flattery they see as implicit in this.In truth I'm not really jealous at all, just wish I had unlimited money, energy, and time.
Member #4581
08-03-17, 13:10
I understand that prosecution for BBBJ is only a minor offence similar to a parking or speeding ticket. However the fine of 50,000 is scary. . I believe the sex industry has an organisation to represent them. Why dos't the industry levy their members with a charge and say they will pay the fine for the first person successfully prosecuted up to 50,000.
Alternatively some enterprising insurance company could insure against the fine for what I believe could be a low charge. Or a gambling / betting company offer very good ods on you being prosecuted fined say over 1000. Where are all the lateral thinkers?Is it up to 50 grand or always a fixed amount of 50 K€? What happens if a guy couldn't come up with more than a few thousands even if you auctioned off everything he has? I suspect that amount is a deterrent, and judges would have leeway in deciding the amount of fine, depending on other circumstances. Don't know how the German system works in these issues.
Clubs have no incentive to help out mongers; as MCA and others said, they are operated by borderline legal entities who want to be seen as playing by the rules. And which club wants to be raising prices to help out a monger, and risk losing some business in the process?
Insurance. That's always a possibility. If you look hard enough, you can buy insurance for pretty much anything. Just a matter of how much premium will be charged and who / how many would be buying such insurance.
For a lot of guys, the social opprobrium with getting charged and prosecuted, and any related risk of what that might do to his job and personal life is as bad or worse than the €50 K amount.
UltraHappy
08-03-17, 15:32
Is it up to 50 grand or always a fixed amount of 50 K? Section 33 of the law states that the fine is *up to* 50,000 Euros (not fixed) but within the discretion of the court. Presumably, the highest fine would be reserved for repeat offenders.
The explanation under Section 33 of the law explains that the high upper amount of the fine against customers is justified given that the objective behind the law is the protection of the health and safety of other third persons (that is, the prostitute themselves).
I have no idea what would happen to someone who did not have the financial wherewithal to pay the fine. It would be interesting to hear the answer from those familiar with the German legal system.
Regarding insurance for crimes, in most legal systems, it is considered against public policy to insure against fines from the commission of crimes and therefore prohibited. In the States for example, one cannot insure against fraud, willful misconduct, and fines resulting from the commission of crimes. Therefore, this type of insurance is usually prohibited. In short, the law usually takes a dim view on arrangements that encourage naughty stuff. I would be extremely surprised if Germany's position on this issue was substantially different than most other developed countries. So, I give the poster below Ilink good marks on creativity, but the lawyers appear to already be ahead of you on this point.
Clubs .. are operated by borderline legal entities who want to be seen as playing by the rulesThis wording should be handed out to every new visitor to fkks.
I have no idea what would happen to someone who did not have the financial wherewithal to pay the fine. It would be interesting to hear the answer from those familiar with the German legal system.Fines are proportional to the purchasing power of the offender. If you get a one month suspended you pay a fine equal to one month wages. If you are unemployed your fine can be as low as 400 Euro. If you are an executive you will pay 10 to 15 thousand (for the same crime / offence). That's why if a good-earner wants to commit a particular crime, it's a good idea for him to delegate the criminal activity to a low-earner and pay his fine plus a hefty premium for not spilling the beans. Similar system but even worse in Switzerland where a millionaire made the news when he got a 150 000 Euro fine for speeding with his Lamborghini.
Legal insurance explicitely excludes insurance against premeditated offences and crimes. In practice any "vice" would be uninsured. I'm pretty sure a violation of the prostitution law would not be insurable. Drunk driving into a party of students and killing 5 could be insured though because it's something a moral jerk (married with four children etc.) would be likely to do. Insurance exists to protect families, not rogue individuals like mongers. Likewise a health insurance can cover costly mountain-climbing, diving and motocycle accidents but it will not cover a cocaine-induced heart attack.
If I were "caught" getting a BBBJ I would't expect a fine higher than the higher range of speeding tickets (hundred of euros, not more). And no criminal record, as has been pointed out before!
Polyamorist
08-03-17, 21:20
Fines are proportional to the purchasing power of the offender. If you get a one month suspended you pay a fine equal to one month wages. If you are unemployed your fine can be as low as 400 Euro. If you are an executive you will pay 10 to 15 thousand (for the same crime / offence). That's why if a good-earner wants to commit a particular crime, it's a good idea for him to delegate the criminal activity to a low-earner and pay his fine plus a hefty premium for not spilling the beans.
If I'm reading this correctly, I need to hire a surrogate unemployed guy to take my BBBJ, then if he gets caught he will be fined 400 euros, and I will pay him a measly grand to keep his mouth shut. I just hope LE isn't watching this thread.
If I'm reading this correctly, I need to hire a surrogate unemployed guy to take my BBBJ, then if he gets caught he will be fined 400 euros, and I will pay him a measly grand to keep his mouth shut. I just hope LE isn't watching this thread.This wouldn't make sense but if you're tired of chasing BBBJs and want to hit the pipe instead, that's the idea.
UltraHappy
08-03-17, 22:42
Fines are proportional to the purchasing power of the offender. If you get a one month suspended you pay a fine equal to one month wages. There's nothing written in the law about this. I'm not saying that you're wrong -- I'm merely stating that I've read the law and the law doesn't say anything about this (including the section that particularly deals with fines).
In any case, how would Germany know how much I, as an foreigner, earned anyways? What's to stop me from saying that I am but a humble office worker who only makes $23,000 per year? (or $47,000 per year or whatever).
Member #4581
08-03-17, 22:57
How does the process and time line work? You get charged in the club presumably; is it like a traffic ticket, with "pay it or contest it" provision? If you don't pay, what's the next step and how long before you get your day in the courts? If the fine is a few hundred euro one might pay it to avoid hassle, but if it is 50 grand, I assume at least some people would contest. Are foreigners required to stay in the country before it is resolved, else they will be stopped at the airport?
Is the amount of fine decided on the spot, as the traffic cops do, or is decided by a judge in the court?
Louie De Palma
08-03-17, 23:38
Fines are proportional to the purchasing power of the offender. If you get a one month suspended you pay a fine equal to one month wages. This is the law in Sweden. I presume that you think Germany is running the same penalty system as Sweden, maybe?
If it is not written in the German law, then it is probably punished different. After all, prostitution is still legal in Germany, so no reason to think Swedish laws will be used in Germany now.
Clubs have no incentive to help out mongers; as MCA and others said, they are operated by borderline legal entities who want to be seen as playing by the rules. And which club wants to be raising prices to help out a monger, and risk losing some business in the process?I agree, but then why should the club even care advising or telling the girls about the new laws as the clubs want to legally distance themselves from both the girls and the mongers.
Neurosynth
08-04-17, 03:16
All of this speculation about fines and how they will be collected is a bit of a waste of time. And that's because the law itself is unenforcible. I'll be surprised if there will any fines for BB sex at all.
What sequence of events will lead to that AND provide evidence to support the charge? Be specific and plausible.
There is no worry now guys, I am standing in next election, I am going to change all this LOL.
There is no worry now guys, I am standing in next election, I am going to change all this LOL.Change? But I thought there was a cap on 2 periods at the office.
Or does Germany also allow foreigners into high office positions? Hehe.
All of this speculation about fines and how they will be collected is a bit of a waste of time. And that's because the law itself is unenforcible. I'll be surprised if there will any fines for BB sex at all.
What sequence of events will lead to that AND provide evidence to support the charge? Be specific and plausible.Again, I agree (well, 90%) ;) I find it hard to see the law being highly enforced (I'm no expert but I think there has been little enforcement over the years in Bayern). The most likely problem would be a normal run of the mill raid on one of the clubs which used to be officially AO, with the Police then rummaging through waste bins looking for condoms, and taking the names of the customers present and writing to them at home with some kind of general warning letter. Someone would have to be very very unlucky to be found in a position where legally relevant evidence of BBBJ was available.
Any views on this from members resident in Germany and fluent in German would be interesting
Time will tell.
UltraHappy
08-04-17, 15:48
Let's say I am riding the you-bahn without a ticket. Then, I get the standard 60 Euro fine.
What happens if I don't pay? What happens if I can't pay?
They take me to jail for awhile? Or, does this present a problem the next time I try to enter the country? If I have 3 unpaid you-bahn fines, will they deny me entry upon arrival by Immigration until I settle my previously late fines?
No need to discuss plausibility of enforcement of you-bahn fines. Happens every day. I've just never heard definitely what happens when one doesn't pay this fine.
There's nothing written in the law about this. I'm not saying that you're wrong -- I'm merely stating that I've read the law and the law doesn't say anything about this (including the section that particularly deals with fines).
In any case, how would Germany know how much I, as an foreigner, earned anyways? What's to stop me from saying that I am but a humble office worker who only makes $23,000 per year? (or $47,000 per year or whatever).It wouldn't be written in THE law. You would find it in general statutes regarding sentencing / fining.
Courts usually make an estimate of what a accused earns on the basis of their declared profession. Only in tax fraud cases or serious criminal cases (more than a 3-month suspended) would they look into your bank account (difficult to believe but true). A clever lawyer would tell the court what you do for a living in a way that would induce the court to set the lowest rate possible. Astonishingly the courts don't investigate this in detail, probably because it would add considerably to their workload. If you lie you lie at your own risk but you may withhold part of the truth. You may let on that you are a building engineer and withhold the fact that you are also a building contractor with your own successful company. That's why bragging about one's financial status is the last thing to do when dealing with the police or the court system here. There's a barrier in Germany that protects your bank account (up to a point) from automatic inspection even by the courts.
I'm sure if mongers get fined for BBBJ the fining/sentencing will be testimony-based only. This is not per se good news as it depends on someone else's story. But if a prosecutor ("Staatsanwalt"), or in more serious cases, a judge, is convinced you did it, you're toast. I am not about to forget the day when that German lawyer told me "You wouldn't believe how many guys sit in Stadelheim just because someone said "I saw him do it". Stadelheim is a well-know prison. I read somewhere this heavy reliance on testimonies was typical of Societies where torture is not an option. You can't torture a suspect so you have to rely on what other people say. Torture is certainly not a good think but it's interesting that even the abolition of torture may have come at a price.
Change? But I thought there was a cap on 2 periods at the office.
Or does Germany also allow foreigners into high office positions? Hehe.BBBJ Libre!
Well only counter strategy I can think of for Germany is strategy 50.
If there is no BBBJ, I just go for 50 euro 30 min doggu dog style banging sessions. Without BBBJ quality of session would be limited anyways and I doubt they gives me rimjob after gives me CBJ? Or rimjobs comes with condom too now? LOL.
BBBJ long sessions, no BBBJ just 50 euro sessions is the only way for me.
UltraHappy
08-04-17, 22:51
It wouldn't be written in THE law. You would find it in general statutes regarding sentencing / fining.
Courts usually make an estimate of what a accused earns on the basis of their declared profession. Do you happen to have a link to these general statutes that purport to charge fines for Ordnungswidrigkeit offences in proportion to salary? I don't see these anywhere in my searching.
In Germany, an accused has an absolute right to remain silent. So, I'm curious how a German court determine a foreigner's profession if the accused relies on their right to remain silent?
Do you happen to have a link to these general statutes that purport to charge fines for Ordnungswidrigkeit offences in proportion to salary? I don't see these anywhere in my searching.
In Germany, an accused has an absolute right to remain silent. So, I'm curious how a German court determine a foreigner's profession if the accused relies on their right to remain silent?You have a right to remain silent but once charged you (your lawyer) must say something eventually. Your lawyer can lie in court but it can be a good idea to tell something close to the truth. On your imigration card or your visa application you will have provided your profession.
Remaining silent means leaving it to your lawyer to do the talking and not incriminating yourself before any charges are made. It doesn't mean you can get off the hook by playing deaf and dumb.
In practice you should get the opportunity of paying a fine and be done with it and that is the best thing to do. I'm not sure they fine proportional to salary for non arrestable offences. For arrestable offences they sure do.
UltraHappy
08-04-17, 23:39
On your imigration card or your visa application you will have provided your profession.
Those of us arriving from the States do not fill out an immigration card -- Rather, we qualify for visa-free travel. So, we do not provide our profession to Germany before or upon arrival.
I found this interesting comparative law article that compares some of the aspects of German criminal law to American law. On p. 45, the author writes:
"German procedures against self-incrimination are equal to, or perhaps even stronger than, American standards. However, unlike in America, "most German defendants waive their right to remain silent. " On the one hand, this may be a cultural difference bolstered by the atmosphere and customs of a German trial. But there is also a procedural distinction that underpins the difference: defendants in Germany are allowed to give unsworn statements at trial, and they cannot be held criminally liable for these statements. ".
Source: http://www.eur.army.mil/aepubs/docs/CLS-Germany.pdf.
I find it interesting that the German court supposedly cannot hold a defendant criminally liable for their own statements. In the States, many Defendants are convicted solely based on their own testimony.
Another brief article about a few key points of German law states as follows:
"Under certain circumstances, accused parties who are not German may have their passports confiscated to keep them from leaving the country. In serious cases, the accused may be placed in pre-trial confinement. ".
Source: http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/legal.html.
So, at least in some cases, Germany could withhold your passport to keep you from leaving the country or keep you in jail until trial. I wonder how long I could go without paying a fine for traveling on the the Deutsche Bahn without a ticket before Germany decides to pull the trigger on the nuclear option and jails me or confiscates my passport?
If Germany were to take my passport in that scenario, what's to stop me from driving to my American consulate in France, reporting my passport lost, getting a new passport issued to me on an expedited basis, then returning home directly from France with my new passport?
So many mysteries about the German legal system. Too bad there are no German legal experts here.
Do you happen to have a link to these general statutes that purport to charge fines for Ordnungswidrigkeit offences in proportion to salary? I don't see these anywhere in my searching.17.3 indicates the offender's wealth / economic circumstances are sometimes considered.
https://dejure.org/gesetze/OWiG/17.html
UltraHappy
08-05-17, 02:00
17.3 indicates the offender's wealth / economic circumstances are sometimes considered.
https://dejure.org/gesetze/OWiG/17.htmlDamn. That's some serious shit.
And, thanks for sharing the link! You are a gentlemen and a scholar sir!
If Germany were to take my passport in that scenario, what's to stop me from driving to my American consulate in France, reporting my passport lost, getting a new passport issued to me on an expedited basis, then returning home directly from France with my new passport?
So many mysteries about the German legal system. Too bad there are no German legal experts here.Are you willing to bet the German gov. Is that stupid? Are you willing to be charged with a second crime?
What is more interesting is: do you have the right to have the girl there as a witness? What if you paid her not to be available? You could always allege that no condom was the girls idea and you just did not know. A better defense.
Member #4581
08-05-17, 06:35
I agree with Neuro that these discussions are largely theoretical and academic. I think (hope?) that investigations, convictions, and large fines and other punishments are unlikely.
This link here gives some overview of the German legal system. No idea if this info is accurate and authentic.
http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/legal.html
My personal view in legal matters is, (a) not to break the law to the max extent possible (b) if broken and caught, then not to present a argumentative defense which could insult the judges' intelligence and toughen their stance and resolve -- rather to admit to facts which are evident, pay any fine and request for lenience due to a first time offense (c) not to repeat any longer. Anyway, that's me.
I am more interested in what the procedures and processes are -- can you pay the fine on the spot and leave? Does the record stay on beyond the fine? If the fine is a large one and you want to contest or appeal, how long before one can see the judge and be stuck in Germany (and do you need to engage a local lawyer -- if the fine is as large as 50 K then I would assume that you would want some legal help).
Anyway, I hope none of us have ever to face these issues.
If Germany were to take my passport in that scenario, what's to stop me from driving to my American consulate in France, reporting my passport lost, getting a new passport issued to me on an expedited basis, then returning home directly from France with my new passport?
If your passport gets confiscated it should go on a list and your consulate should know about it. Things go quite fast these days with EDP. If you lie to get one back all the same you are committing a further offence and putting yourself deeper into trouble. When you report a lost ID or passport you are required to tell the truth about what happened (lost, stolen, burnt etc.).
Let's say I am riding the you-bahn without a ticket. Then, I get the standard 60 Euro fine.
What happens if I don't pay? What happens if I can't pay?
They take me to jail for awhile? Or, does this present a problem the next time I try to enter the country? If I have 3 unpaid you-bahn fines, will they deny me entry upon arrival by Immigration until I settle my previously late fines?
No need to discuss plausibility of enforcement of you-bahn fines. Happens every day. I've just never heard definitely what happens when one doesn't pay this fine.I was stopped in June for being on the metro without a valid ticket. I had a ticket that was a couple of days old and was trying to argue that I had bought this ticket but hadn't traveled that day so thought that I could use it on another day as it had not already been validated.
Their view was that the ticket was only valid on the date that it was bought. They also said that if I was a German citizen then they would take and validate my address and give me a summons to appear at some office to either pay the fine or provide plausible reasons why I did not have a valid ticket. However as I was non-German I would have to either pay the fine on the spot or they would call the police.
I refused to pay and they called the police however as the police were busy with other more important matters I was detained at the station for 30 minutes before I decided that I could not stay waiting at the station indefinitely as I had to get on with my day.
They had asked for my passport saying that all visitors are obliged to carry identification at all times but I said that I did not have one. I was wary in case they would hold on to it rather than hand it back. Maybe the reason they detained me was also partly because they wanted the police to check whether I was in the country illegally.
In the scenario where you are left waiting for the police indefinitely and then have to make a trip to the police station which would take up 2 or more hours of your time then maybe it would be worth paying the fine.
In any case I believe they have a two or three strikes and then you are out approach. So if you are given a fine and do not pay it then the next time you could be arrested and asked to attend court where you could be fined a higher amount and imprisoned or banned from the country if you don't pay.
Do they note unpaid fines on your record for immigration purposes? I am not sure of the scenario whereby if you return to Germany and there are unpaid fines noted on your record whether you would have the option to pay the fine at the passport desk. That is not their responsibility after all and they may not have the procedure in place to pass these unpaid fines on to the appropriate persons.
Jnpr. You raise crucial questions. I hope somebody knows the answers
On a separate aspect. Advice given to me by Police I know, and obviously followed by Police themselves, don't admit to ANYTHING (until you have seen evidence against you which is clearly impossible to dispute in any way) to the Police when they first talk to you. If you are innocent of what they are asking about, still don't admit anything (even that the sun is shining). Police say that everybody is guilty of something somewhere in their lives, it's just a question of getting them to talk or seizing electronic evidence.
If you can, avoid presenting your passport at a raid (say it is in your car, then go out and drive off if possible, as most customers did at a recent raid in Frankfurt). Deny going to an FKK to have sex, say you were just there for the sauna and to relax. Give a story about the places you visited as a tourist by train and with your mobile phone turned off. They are then faced with having to decide if it's worth seizing your or the club's electronics to try to disprove you. And so on.
Of course once it goes to court the situation is different and what JNPR says in b) is sensible, not to insult the legal system with barefaced lies which can be easily disproven
UltraHappy
08-05-17, 15:54
If you can, avoid presenting your passport at a raid (say it is in your car, then go out and drive off if possible, as most customers did at a recent raid in Frankfurt). Deny going to an FKK to have sex, say you were just there for the sauna and to relax. Give a story about the places you visited as a tourist by train and with your mobile phone turned off. They are then faced with having to decide if it's worth seizing your or the club's electronics to try to disprove you. And so on.
I don't know why I would need to say that I was at the FKK for just relax. Being at FKK is totally legal in Germany. Why would I need to run away from FKK control? It's not illegal for me to be there. Why would I need to make up stories about other places that I've been to?
Perhaps these gentlemen feared that there was some sort of evidence of some sort of illegal activity against them? Maybe they were smoking inside the club when the raid occurred and the tourists knew that smoking inside the clubs is now illegal?
Even if the police seize my phone, I suspect that they couldn't do much with it as it is locked and encrypted. So, if my phone is off when they seize it, the data on it is completely encrypted and inaccessible, even if they could somehow bypass the lockscreen. To the police, my phone is just a useless brick -- an expensive brick but a brick nonetheless. Even if they seize my phone in the on state, bypassing the lockscreen is not trivial, even if possible, and I doubt they would go to such efforts for most low level offenses.
Member #4581
08-05-17, 16:46
Agree with UH. Being in the FKK is by itself quite legal. I have never been caught in one of those raids on the clubs thank goodness, and I heard that by and large they check that girls and clubs are following the rules and leave the men alone (may be check their IDs at best) -- and I don't know if they ask why you are in the club and so on. Having sex in the club with girls there is quite legal and I don't see why I should lie about it.
My comments were more generic in nature and not specific to the club. I believe that when one lies and especially in a legal situation, eventually the truth comes out these days with the amount of surveillance and electronic clues we have / leave everywhere. In my view, a cover up always looks worse than the original lie. So, this is a general principle.
I agree with Optimist, I didn't mean that one should volunteer a tremendous amount of information to the police, but whatever you say, it should not be a lie. If possible, speak as little as needed.
Anyway, these issues crop up only if the situation balloons up into a big legal calamity. Far better to pay a quick fine and leave with a clean record, if such a thing is possible. As long as the fines are less than a grand, I think most foreign tourists might be amenable to this. If the fine is as high as 50 K, then guys might contest. If the fine is a few thousand, then it becomes more complicated -- to contest / appeal, or not?!
Jnpr. I have been in maybe six fullscale raids and they are exactly as you say: absolutely no problem for customers as they were only taking part in legal activities. In future there will be the new element that the Police raid could possibly be keeping an eye out for the newly illegal activities: in view of this my attitude wil change and I will exercise discretion, being the better part of valour, and will just try to keep off their radar (no more long chats with Police during a raid). Innocence is never any guarantee of not being framed, set up, and even found guilty.
I agree a cover up lie is the worst option. I meant just to say it's a good idea not to implicate oneself intentionally or accidentally unless there is the evidence against one.
UH. In my country a phone access cannot be denied to the Police. To withhold passwords to encryption is a serious criminal offence. I think in Germany it is different, so you are correct and they would have a much harder case to make to get access to a phone.
Anyway, I didn't mean to inflate this issue. As Jnpr says, enforcement is likely to be near impossible. If anyone is caught then I hope as he does that one can just pay the fine and not get a criminal record.
UltraHappy
08-05-17, 21:50
I believe that when one lies and especially in a legal situation, eventually the truth comes out these days with the amount of surveillance and electronic clues we have / leave everywhere. In my view, a cover up always looks worse than the original lie. So, this is a general principle.
I agree with Optimist, I didn't mean that one should volunteer a tremendous amount of information to the police, but whatever you say, it should not be a lie. If possible, speak as little as needed.
Anyway, these issues crop up only if the situation balloons up into a big legal calamity. Far better to pay a quick fine and leave with a clean record, if such a thing is possible. As long as the fines are less than a grand, I think most foreign tourists might be amenable to this. If the fine is as high as 50 K, then guys might contest. If the fine is a few thousand, then it becomes more complicated -- to contest / appeal, or not?!It's not just about being caught in a lie. Often, telling the truth can land you in hot water. If you don't believe me, listen to this law professor describe all the reasons why he declares that he is PROUD that he will NEVER talk to ANY police officer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
And, if you don't believe that law professor, then listen to the highly experienced police officer during the second half of the presentation who has conducted hundreds and hundreds of interrogations. Admittedly, this presentation is directed to US law, but it's enough to put the fear in me of ever saying anything to the police. Granted, I don't apply this rule so strictly when I am abroad, but in the States, I never answer questions from police officers.
Regarding the amount of the fines, if I were ever caught doing something illegal in an FKK (like for example, smoking indoors in an NRW club), I would be quite happy to pay a 1,000 Euro fine and be done with it. If the fine were 50,000 Euros, then in that case, I would have to consult my consulate (which all foreigners have the right to do per international treaty) before deciding what course of action made sense for me.
In any case, I agree that all of this talk is purely theoretical as the current evidence suggests that there is no likelihood that any of us would ever be prosecuted for any violations whilst enjoying one's self in a sauna club.
We need pros lobbying in German parliament to lift the ban on BBBJ part as it is almost done as a side topping of the law.
But it ain't over till its over.
The last of the German BBBJ.
UH. Thanks. That excellent video clip makes in great detail the point I was trying to make. A bit more radical than me though.
Agreed again, hopefully this is all hot air on our part and we will never be faced with it in reality. I just want to get my mind in the right place just in case. Up till now I have always been very friendly and forthcoming with German police: in future I intend to melt into the background if I can.
Polyamorist
08-06-17, 11:36
McAdonis. I always, like you, try to put business the way of a girl I like and think is good. I check with her first of course. As you say, the girls concerned always appreciate this: they'd rather have a publicist than a jealous guy trailing them (unless that guy has the money to buy them for the day). I also let other less reliable guys take "my" girl first, so she appreciates that, and when she goes with me she often has already made her target for the day.
Ass-alam Optimist! Now this is what I call the true FKK spirit. Sharing the bounty of the earth freely. Completely the opposite to the competitive spirit that some guys bring to the FKKs.
In most developed countries like the US and France there is a perceived shortage of attractive women, leading to hoarding, leading to exacerbation of the shortage, leading to great conflict between guys: any guy would stab his brother or best friend for a chance of a night with a hottie! I suspect this situation will one day be considered as unhealthy for society as the shortage of food in the Middle Ages.
Anyway a lot of guys have a hard time dropping this mindset when they enter FKKs. They might bring gold watches with them to convince the girls they are richer than other mongers, or tell the girls, "Don't go with those other guys, they are fat monsters!" The girls learn to have contempt for the guys and set them against each other, the same as in mainstream society.
That is why it is like a breath of fresh air to hear people take a non-possessive, non-grasping attitude towards the girls in this forum.
Member #4581
08-06-17, 18:42
In most developed countries like the US and France there is a perceived shortage of attractive women, leading to hoarding, leading to exacerbation of the shortage, leading to great conflict between guys: any guy would stab his brother or best friend for a chance of a night with a hottie! I suspect this situation will one day be considered as unhealthy for society as the shortage of food in the Middle Ages..Poly, you crack me up man! You have a original way of putting things in perspective. Interesting comparison between food shortages and attractive pussy -- we solved the first problem, but how do we solve the second one? I seem to lose attraction when the girl ages even a few extra years, even those I used to find eminently Fuckable.
Polyamorist
08-07-17, 11:56
Poly, you crack me up man! You have a original way of putting things in perspective. Interesting comparison between food shortages and attractive pussy -- we solved the first problem, but how do we solve the second one? I seem to lose attraction when the girl ages even a few extra years, even those I used to find eminently Fuckable.Perhaps because the girls have been prematurely aged by smoking and obesity? In the original spirit of the movement, FKKs should be at the forefront of promoting public health. It is when people are naked that the ravages of a poor lifestyle on beauty are most evident. How about replacing all the crap carbs in those buffets with fruits and salads? There are some FKKs I will go into and half the girls are unfuckable because of this one problem. It is part of the global obesity epidemic that has blown up over the past few decades. I think if we were mongering in the 1970's this issue wouldn't even be on our radar.
Maʿ al- salāmah, Jnpr, and may the white goat of peace nuzzle ever more gently at your testicles!
Polyamorist. Even ten years ago there were few fat girls. The obesity epidemic hit eastern Europe only since then.I count myself lucky to have seen one of the great wonders of the world: girls before the obesity epidemic
Rogue Nation
08-07-17, 15:50
The only thing FKK clubs and the original FKK movement have in common is nudity.
The only thing FKK clubs and the original FKK movement have in common is nudity.As the original format or beginning and ripe maturity period, peak has been passed few years ago for German FKK culture as we used to know it.
Remarkable change is nationalities that vanished. There were not many but few Czech, Austrian, German and considerable amount of girls in line up from Poland. Now these nationalities are almost extinct from German FKK line up, there has been obvious decline in that area.
And hard up sell make it too annoying and DFK up sell was the red line to handle and it was OK, but now BBBJ with new girls who do not know you. Can be turning point for some pro mongers.
Polyamorist
08-08-17, 11:00
The only thing FKK clubs and the original FKK movement have in common is nudity.Yes and also that they were both persecuted by the German government as a threat to public morality, one in 1933 and the other in 2017.
I find it interesting that the German court supposedly cannot hold a defendant criminally liable for their own statements. In the States, many Defendants are convicted solely based on their own testimony.There's a fundamental difference between the US (and many former British colonies) and most of Continental Europe. You have on one side common law and on the other civil law systems. It's not surprising that the systems would create different solutions for various topics.
I would think that in Germany (because it's this way in other European countries) that the accused is expected to say anything to be acquitted. It's pointless to try to charge them with perjury for lying about their innocence.
Neurosynth
08-10-17, 03:35
Reminder:
(1) The current law is virtually unenforcible. The club and the girl have zero incentive to report you. In fact they have an incentive to *not* report you. The cops will have no evidence about BBBJ or BBFS, and in fact they won't even know what you did and didn't do.
(2) German law is different than US law, and it's foolish to use the latter to give recommendations regarding the former.
I would think that in Germany (because it's this way in other European countries) that the accused is expected to say anything to be acquitted. It's pointless to try to charge them with perjury for lying about their innocence.Before a German court you can lie to your heart's content, you cannot be punished (get a harder sentence) because you lied. Likewise you do not get sworn in as an accused (you get sworn in as a witness though). The flipside of this is that as an accused your protestations of innocence will count for little. Note also that if the court catches you lying about a fact they will have grounds to dismiss any other statement of fact you might adduce to underpin your innoncence. So if you want to lie you still have to be very careful to do so only if your statement cannot be crosschecked.
In our case however, whatever legal consequences we suffer from this New Law shouldn't lead to a court hearing. What we did before July 1st that we are no longer allowed to will be punishable by a fine.
Before a German court you can lie to your heart's content, you cannot be punished (get a harder sentence) because you lied. Likewise you do not get sworn in as an accused (you get sworn in as a witness though). The flipside of this is that as an accused your protestations of innocence will count for little. Note also that if the court catches you lying about a fact they will have grounds to dismiss any other statement of fact you might adduce to underpin your innoncence. So if you want to lie you still have to be very careful to do so only if your statement cannot be crosschecked.
In our case however, whatever legal consequences we suffer from this New Law shouldn't lead to a court hearing. What we did before July 1st that we are no longer allowed to will be punishable by a fine.LOL, So you guys are already exchanging counter strategy for your future BBBJ arrest LOL.
I do not think they will arrest anyone for BBBJ, I think this law was installed to prevent mistreatment of working girls, and almost accidentally it went as far as covering BBBJ area. I think it was more targeting AO club than BBBJ.
So I conclude that all this BBBJ thing was law that was installed as an accident and ended up causing us great life changing turning point LOL!
Believe me, this law was life changing experience that echoes in eternity for me LOL.
"German procedures against self-incrimination are equal to, or perhaps even stronger than, American standards. However, unlike in America, "most German defendants waive their right to remain silent. " On the one hand, this may be a cultural difference bolstered by the atmosphere and customs of a German trial. But there is also a procedural distinction that underpins the difference: defendants in Germany are allowed to give unsworn statements at trial, and they cannot be held criminally liable for these statements. ".
Source: http://www.eur.army.mil/aepubs/docs/CLS-Germany.pdf.
I find it interesting that the German court supposedly cannot hold a defendant criminally liable for their own statements. In the States, many Defendants are convicted solely based on their own testimony.
You can't be forced to testify against yourself. However, you can certainly admit to committing the crime (and probably get a lighter sentence than if you don't cooperate). The prosecution can, I believe, ask for you to be sworn in. You can refuse, but that doesn't look good. If you are sworn in, then lying under oath is a serious offence.
The only thing FKK clubs and the original FKK movement have in common is nudity.Right. "FKK" has become a synonym for "nudist", both in FKK sport clubs, nudist swims, etc.
I understand that prosecution for BBBJ is only a minor offence similar to a parking or speeding ticket. However the fine of 50,000 is scary. . I believe the sex industry has an organisation to represent them. Why dos't the industry levy their members with a charge and say they will pay the fine for the first person successfully prosecuted up to 50,000.
Maybe because this could be seen as encouraging breaking the law? Or maybe because it would be an incentive for the state to make sure that the maximum fine is levied?
Alternatively some enterprising insurance company could insure against the fine for what I believe could be a low charge. Or a gambling / betting company offer very good ods on you being prosecuted fined say over 1000. Where are all the lateral thinkers?It is illegal to insure against punishment for crimes.
All For Bb
08-15-17, 15:17
If condom comes off (or slips off into the pussy) during the sex and no one notice before finishing, is that against the new law?
Yes, of course.
That excuse will not do.
Sebastiane
08-15-17, 19:06
So I saw this girl in real life today who is the most beautiful girl I've ever seen. To put it into perspective all the girls I've rated as 10 on here from 10 years of mongering must all slip down to 9 by comparison for looks- even Marie was average compared to her! I actually started a conversation with her using the 'I'm a lost tourist' line with a view to getting her number (I'm younger than most people in an FKK) but I didn't sustain her interest but she was incredible. I'm not joking but she actually walked into a modelling agency which was nearby after our conversation! She was from Brazil. OMG! As Kaveman says on the Zurich forum once you have spotted a real 10/11 you just know!! Fuck me she was perfect.
Dark hair, an exquisite model face (long, straight nose, slender delicate features) and her body was slender and oh so tall with legs that went on for miles and a waist I could put my hands around completely! There was another beautiful blonde at the model agency too I saw nearby but this Brazilian girl was on a different level. Now if Aphrodisia or Globe has these kind of girls! (But this is the kind of girl that top footballers / billionaires date and they don't work in FKKs or even Aphrodisia!
But I have seen a few of them on Seeking Arrangement. They typically want a 1000 just to meet and between 5 K and 10 K a month (euro) to fuck. ! I met one of them in Casablanca. A French Moroccan but didn't have sex as her price was too high. And I'm willing to give her 3 K US but she wanted a 1000 USD just for the meeting!
This girl I saw today I'd give her 5 K. For an hour!
So I saw this girl in real life today who is the most beautiful girl I've ever seen. To put it into perspective all the girls I've rated as 10 on here from 10 years of mongering must all slip down to 9 by comparison for looks- even Marie was average compared to her! I actually started a conversation with her using the 'I'm a lost tourist' line with a view to getting her number (I'm younger than most people in an FKK) but I didn't sustain her interest but she was incredible. I'm not joking but she actually walked into a modelling agency which was nearby after our conversation! She was from Brazil. OMG! As Kaveman says on the Zurich forum once you have spotted a real 10/11 you just know!! Fuck me she was perfect.
Dark hair, an exquisite model face (long, straight nose, slender delicate features) and her body was slender and oh so tall with legs that went on for miles and a waist I could put my hands around completely! There was another beautiful blonde at the model agency too I saw nearby but this Brazilian girl was on a different level. Now if Aphrodisia or Globe has these kind of girls! (But this is the kind of girl that top footballers / billionaires date and they don't work in FKKs or even Aphrodisia!
But I have seen a few of them on Seeking Arrangement. They typically want a 1000 just to meet and between 5 K and 10 K a month (euro) to fuck. ! I met one of them in Casablanca. A French Moroccan but didn't have sex as her price was too high. And I'm willing to give her 3 K US but she wanted a 1000 USD just for the meeting!
This girl I saw today I'd give her 5 K. For an hour!Well if you are lucky then you get to fuck her for merely 50 euro per 30 min or with bit of upsell in german FKK LOL.
I mean, you do find high end escort girls walking in time to time. They usually upsell with longer hour and some extra often, but outcome is most of times real solid and unforgettable!
If condom comes off (or slips off into the pussy) during the sex and no one notice before finishing, is that against the new law?Well, all I will say is that the Germans have a new code word and it is (translated) 'accent free French'. Don't think it needs me to explain that! As the German sites all forbid any mention of AO, this is the way they get around it. The law is pretty stupid, she can't BBBJ you but you can lick her out to your heart's content.
Maybe because this could be seen as encouraging breaking the law? Or maybe because it would be an incentive for the state to make sure that the maximum fine is levied?
It is illegal to insure against punishment for crimes.You know guys, the Germans aren't as phased about this law as folk on this forum. The German forums had no discussion of it before July 1st. Whether the law works or not is a mute point. Spoken to a couple of my German colleagues who frequent FKK clubs and they are quite happy, so read that as you want. Sure in bordellos etc the law is applied strictly. But I would advocate the German approach to this issue. Don't talk about it, as the cops trawl these sites regularly, ever this one.
You can't be forced to testify against yourself. However, you can certainly admit to committing the crime (and probably get a lighter sentence than if you don't cooperate). The prosecution can, I believe, ask for you to be sworn in. You can refuse, but that doesn't look good. If you are sworn in, then lying under oath is a serious offence.I really wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I detect near panic on this forum certainly angst but I have not yet discovered reasonable grounds for it.
UltraHappy
08-18-17, 00:56
But I would advocate the German approach to this issue.The first rule of Fight Club.
Neurosynth
08-18-17, 02:38
Don't talk about it, as the cops trawl these sites regularly, ever this one.Even if that was true (as if we know more about what is going on than the local cops) so what? Describe to me the scenario where a German cop says "OMG. Der AO continues!" and it ends with you being arrested. Or the place gets shut down. How does that happen? How is evidence gathered? Cops hiding in the rooms? Naked female cops that take guys to a room as fake providers? Rooms outfitted with video surveillance and cops executing a massive violation of privacy?
It's just not going to happen. The one way AO might be diminished is if false fears become entrenched. So why contribute to that?
UltraHappy
08-18-17, 03:06
How does that happen? How is evidence gathered? Cops hiding in the rooms? Haven't you been reading anything here? They are hiding under the mattresses. Duh!
Well, all I will say is that the Germans have a new code word and it is (translated) 'accent free French'. Don't think it needs me to explain that! As the German sites all forbid any mention of AO, this is the way they get around it.
Until now (at the latest).
The law is pretty stupid, she can't BBBJ you but you can lick her out to your heart's content.Whatever you think of the law, the intent is to protect the girls, not the punters.
an exquisite model face (long, straight nose, slender delicate features) and her body was slender and oh so tall with legs that went on for miles and a waist I could put my hands around completely!Sounds like a 6 or a 7.
Sebastiane
08-19-17, 08:58
Sounds like a 6 or a 7.LOL. I know beauty is subjective and that but unless you like BBW most guys would disagree!! She was a spitting image of the Mexican model Alejandra Infante! In fact I thought it might be her but she was wearing dark sunglasses so couldn't be sure plus she was Brazilian!
LOL. I know beauty is subjective and that but unless you like BBW most guys would disagree!! She was a spitting image of the Mexican model Alejandra Infante! In fact I thought it might be her but she was wearing dark sunglasses so couldn't be sure plus she was Brazilian!In an FKK, pretty does not equal sexy. Alejandra Infante to me in an FKK would be a 6 or a 7.
If I saw Alejhandra in FKK I would avoid her. She seems to have a masculine vibe. Just shows we all have different tastes in looks.
Nobody agrees on looks, but, as Pistons says, sexy is another matter. Or I would say, personality. Usually when there is a real superstar in FKK it is the girl with charisma, and then there is much more agreement amongst us.
Johnny Beme
08-20-17, 19:59
Hey,
I will be going to the FKK clubs in Hamburg in early September.
Any tips for a newbie?
Thanks.
Hey,
I will be going to the FKK clubs in Hamburg in early September.
Any tips for a newbie?
Thanks.Yes, rule number of the FKK is to bring a lot of Euro LOL.
Don't just go with your first look of girl, examine her in light and take your time and remember they all lie to you in FKK mostly, but money and bit of charm takes you long way to resurrection LOL.
Citizen Kane
08-22-17, 17:31
"Austrian brothel buys a SECOND sex doll after its first became more popular with customers than real women".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4810660/Austrian-brothel-buys-SECOND-sex-doll-high-demand.html
Hey,
I will be going to the FKK clubs in Hamburg in early September.
Any tips for a newbie?
Thanks.One tip would be not to expect too much from Hamburg in terms of FKKs.
KC Questor
08-23-17, 04:31
"Austrian brothel buys a SECOND sex doll after its first became more popular with customers than real women".Can you imagine being the person whose job is to clean it between customers?
"What do you mean I have to use a condom?
One tip would be not to expect too much from Hamburg in terms of FKKs.I totally disagree. I had a great time with good sessions at Babylon Hamburg and Atmos with a diverse ethnic mix of girls. The quality of the sex I got was on par with the Frankfurt FKKs and Artemis in Berlin.
"Austrian brothel buys a SECOND sex doll after its first became more popular with customers than real women".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4810660/Austrian-brothel-buys-SECOND-sex-doll-high-demand.htmlJust visit GT Vienna and experience the level of upsells to know why. LOL.
I totally disagree. I had a great time with good sessions at Babylon Hamburg and Atmos with a diverse ethnic mix of girls. The quality of the sex I got was on par with the Frankfurt FKKs and Artemis in Berlin.Why didn't you tell me this before July LOL LOL LOL.
Just visit GT Vienna and experience the level of upsells to know why. LOL.So if NRW fails, then Zurich is the destination than GT Vienna then.
Hey,
I will be going to the FKK clubs in Hamburg in early September.
Any tips for a newbie?
Thanks.Oh and Italian or Spanish means she is Romanian in German FKK LOL.
So if NRW fails, then Zurich is the destination than GT Vienna then.For me it will never be Zurich unless all swizz banks close and currency collapse.
Why didn't you tell me this before July LOL LOL LOL.I did tell you this before July. Read my extensive reports.
For me it will never be Zurich unless all swizz banks close and currency collapse.Why pricing issue?
Well what other choices do we have? Austria will be same pricing range as zurich due to many reported up sell there and with up sell service is not guaranteed 100 %.
In Globe, I did witness solid service without negotiating, so if up sell follows for BBBJ, DFK or even DATY etc etc. Then actually zurich can be even cheaper. Plus sometimes it is not just paying 30 or 40 euro more that is matter, this real turn off ness of not sure of getting solid service like BBBJ or this annoying negotiation and cheap scam schemes. For me that is also currency too.
But again. NRW still seems to be delivering, so it maybe ok for awhile.
Why pricing issue?
Well what other choices do we have? Austria will be same pricing range as zurich due to many reported up sell there and with up sell service is not guaranteed 100 %.
In Globe, I did witness solid service without negotiating, so if up sell follows for BBBJ, DFK or even DATY etc etc. Then actually zurich can be even cheaper. Plus sometimes it is not just paying 30 or 40 euro more that is matter, this real turn off ness of not sure of getting solid service like BBBJ or this annoying negotiation and cheap scam schemes. For me that is also currency too.
But again. NRW still seems to be delivering, so it maybe ok for awhile.Only when people are silly enough to buy the upsells. Germany is still good with lots of girls by the way. In Austria it is up and down. But that doesn't mean we all have to settle for down (Switzerland).
Only when people are silly enough to buy the upsells. Germany is still good with lots of girls by the way. In Austria it is up and down. But that doesn't mean we all have to settle for down (Switzerland).That is good to hear, only thing I can rely are reports on various threads, I most likely try out German FKK once for myself to see how it changed, I am thinking of November visit or early December.
Sebastiane
08-26-17, 23:28
Mr Ho,
My recent quick personal research has shown that in terms of what you can have nothing has changed in the German FKKs although a lot of girls now try to include certain things as extra which before was included in the base price but only a very few refused to do it if you book for an hour and a few still do it as before. It makes me think it was all designed to be another way of making a bit more money and everything else was just an excuse. Still, the law is the law although sometimes the law is an ass but there's no reason to switch to Switzerland just yet unless absolutely insist on not paying more than for 30 minute session.
Mr Ho,
It makes me think it was all designed to be another way of making a bit more money and everything else was just an excuse. Still, the law is the law although sometimes the law is an ass but there's no reason to switch to Switzerland just yet unless absolutely insist on not paying more than for 30 minute session.However, at the end of the day, a 30-min session in most Switzerland clubs will end up costing as a base price more than in German FKKs, so you are kind of back to square 1, I think.
Mr Ho,
My recent quick personal research has shown that in terms of what you can have nothing has changed in the German FKKs although a lot of girls now try to include certain things as extra which before was included in the base price but only a very few refused to do it if you book for an hour and a few still do it as before. It makes me think it was all designed to be another way of making a bit more money and everything else was just an excuse. Still, the law is the law although sometimes the law is an ass but there's no reason to switch to Switzerland just yet unless absolutely insist on not paying more than for 30 minute session.Right, but booking for one hour won't get you BBBJ now? That would be quite sad thing to know. If CIM options are still there, then this would be the way to go around in German FKK now for me.
Usually, when I go for one hour it is about 40 minutes sex, and 20 minute laying around and chat, it is like this most of times, and I got to say 30 min full sex session is enough for me as far as the time go, so in this way, zurich can be good choice as now german FKK may charge me close amount or even more for not even promised delivery of service.
I remember the time when we can go for 30 min and still get good session with BBBJ, but it sound like it begin to change. I would not mind going for one hour for good session including BBBJ now, but going for one hour won't get me BBBJ and if I have to pay extra for BBBJ, that would be messed up.
I will give one more try to german FKK, and I might do this, I go go for one hour, CIM session, which is 125, then I extend 30 min after in room for second cum which is 175. So I am getting quite reasonable deal still, but if I do so, I got to choose carefully and only go with stunner of stunner which is hard to find nowadays too LOL.
Well I loved the simplicity of German FKK with set serviced and promised delivery, now it is becoming more and more like lotto, though let us be thankful that we had blast till now doing multiple beauties everyday for just 50 euro per 30 min with good service most of times. I had good 7 years in German FKK, now it maybe time to shift to less girls to go per day, but more intense service exchange for price.
I do not mind paying, but downside is that when you swing big cash. Then if it turned out to be bad session in room. Ouch. Before it was just 50 euro or so, now it is much more LOL.
Well we are all experienced mongers, so we shall find the way!
It is good to know that it is more or less still the same in most German FKK.
However, at the end of the day, a 30-min session in most Switzerland clubs will end up costing as a base price more than in German FKKs, so you are kind of back to square 1, I think.Well no negotiation and guaranteed service at the club like Globe is plus for me and I usually session for about 40 min out of one hour session, so 30 min is similar with full intense session globe offers.
But I will try out NRW once again, I am tempted to go to Palace Frankfurt and oase again but hmmmm. It was sharky club before and I wonder how palace is now LOL.
Sebastiane
08-28-17, 17:26
I've not visited Globe yet but I'd imagine that things like CIM and NS are extras and not included in the basic 140 CHF price for 30 minutes righT? What do extras cost in Globe? In Aphrodisia?
Smoke Light
08-28-17, 21:43
But I will try out NRW once again, I am tempted to go to Palace Frankfurt and oase again but hmmmm. It was sharky club before and I wonder how palace is now LOL.Mr Ho,
I expressed my concerns about Germany a while ago when I already had a trip reserved for August. I am back from my 10 day voyage to NRW. I visited all top 5 clubs and my concerns for the time being are gone. I had a wonderful time in most clubs.
To summarize, almost no upsells, I usually headed for 1 HR sessions, some with 2 pops. Great services, plenty of beautiful girls with good talent. On average I enjoyed 3 or 4 rooms per day with only 2 rooms in my 10-day stay cut short to a 30-min 50 eu due to unsatisfactory experience in the room with no pop at the end. So my losses are only 100 eu.
With girls who already knew me things went just as before. With new ones I noticed a good DATY at the beginning of the session always established a warm atmosphere for the rest of the session. For me, best conclusion is always CIM. No disappointments.
The girls now see the new law as a good foundation for them to refuse BBBJ when the client is not clean. Otherwise they say: I don't really enjoy sucking a gummy. Some girls also pride themselves in getting a prostitute ID which somehow makes them feel good about themselves. I haven't figured that one out, but have no problem banging a tute with ID and make her feel good about the fact.
Happy to say I just booked another 10 day NRW trip in November without any hesitation.
Rogue Nation
08-28-17, 23:02
I've not visited Globe yet but I'd imagine that things like CIM and NS are extras and not included in the basic 140 CHF price for 30 minutes righT? What do extras cost in Globe? In Aphrodisia?Yes extras are not included.
Some girls also pride themselves in getting a prostitute ID which somehow makes them feel good about themselves. I haven't figured that one out, but have no problem banging a tute with ID and make her feel good about the fact.Haha yes! I remember a couple Romanian girls at GT that bragged about being the best CIM girls in all Germany and they are very proud of their skills to make every man pop in their mouths to earn that extra 50 E. Dina HU ex Sharks said to me many many times that she is the best prostitute in all of Germany and all men wanted to cum in her. I still remember the way she bragged to me, so arrogantly too. I really think she truly believed it herself! I wonder if she is bragging about this to her boyfriend now that she retired.
I think these tutes need to have that kind of mentality to enjoy multiple stranger's cum swirling in their mouths per day. Especially before the law when any penis, dirty or clean can dump their loads deep in their mouths. Really makes me think what they do with these skills / mentality after they retire.
Mr Ho,
I expressed my concerns about Germany a while ago when I already had a trip reserved for August. I am back from my 10 day voyage to NRW. I visited all top 5 clubs and my concerns for the time being are gone. I had a wonderful time in most clubs.
To summarize, almost no upsells, I usually headed for 1 HR sessions, some with 2 pops. Great services, plenty of beautiful girls with good talent. On average I enjoyed 3 or 4 rooms per day with only 2 rooms in my 10-day stay cut short to a 30-min 50 eu due to unsatisfactory experience in the room with no pop at the end. So my losses are only 100 eu.
With girls who already knew me things went just as before. With new ones I noticed a good DATY at the beginning of the session always established a warm atmosphere for the rest of the session. For me, best conclusion is always CIM. No disappointments.
The girls now see the new law as a good foundation for them to refuse BBBJ when the client is not clean. Otherwise they say: I don't really enjoy sucking a gummy. Some girls also pride themselves in getting a prostitute ID which somehow makes them feel good about themselves. I haven't figured that one out, but have no problem banging a tute with ID and make her feel good about the fact.
Happy to say I just booked another 10 day NRW trip in November without any hesitation.Thanks man, I will head to NRW most likely and yes CIM is the best safety net for BBBJ, but let us hope it stays as you described it.
Law is the law, but this German FKK culture began long ago and sometimes culture can beat the system to certain extent, so let hope it stays as it is.
Neurosynth
08-29-17, 01:48
Some girls also pride themselves in getting a prostitute ID which somehow makes them feel good about themselves. I haven't figured that one out, but have no problem banging a tute with ID and make her feel good about the fact.I wouldn't have predicted this, but now that I think about it it makes sense. I think most, or at least some, of these girls had "help" getting to Germany and getting into the business. I think most know what they are getting into, but nevertheless are in a position where they don't feel in control of their situation. They have to answer to club management, perhaps a "boyfriend" or worse, and are in a country they don't really understand. Also chances are that the cops are more unfair and corrupt back home (e.g. Romania), and the assumption that things in Germany are the same adds to their sense of not having control over their situation.
Having a government issued ID establishes a relationship that is directly between the government and them, and their "boyfriend" or whomever is out of the loop. I think that would give them a sense of a bit more autonomy and control. And the government is no longer an enemy, but rather almost a partner in that they establish her legitimacy.
Mr Ho,
I expressed my concerns about Germany a while ago when I already had a trip reserved for August. I am back from my 10 day voyage to NRW. I visited all top 5 clubs and my concerns for the time being are gone. I had a wonderful time in most clubs.
To summarize, almost no upsells, I usually headed for 1 HR sessions, some with 2 pops. Great services, plenty of beautiful girls with good talent. On average I enjoyed 3 or 4 rooms per day with only 2 rooms in my 10-day stay cut short to a 30-min 50 eu due to unsatisfactory experience in the room with no pop at the end. So my losses are only 100 eu.
With girls who already knew me things went just as before. With new ones I noticed a good DATY at the beginning of the session always established a warm atmosphere for the rest of the session. For me, best conclusion is always CIM. No disappointments.
The girls now see the new law as a good foundation for them to refuse BBBJ when the client is not clean. Otherwise they say: I don't really enjoy sucking a gummy. Some girls also pride themselves in getting a prostitute ID which somehow makes them feel good about themselves. I haven't figured that one out, but have no problem banging a tute with ID and make her feel good about the fact.
Happy to say I just booked another 10 day NRW trip in November without any hesitation.P.S.:
I have to add though. I like this feeling of guarantee before going to the club or waking up in the morning during my one week FKK trips, you know this feeling you get that you going to have good sex that you want with beauty that you want today, and with globe zurich I feel you can get this feeling where as I know that I would hate this feeling that hmmmm OK my strategy today to get this is to such and such.
Haha yes! I remember a couple Romanian girls at GT that bragged about being the best CIM girls in all Germany and they are very proud of their skills to make every man pop in their mouths to earn that extra 50 E. Dina HU ex Sharks said to me many many times that she is the best prostitute in all of Germany and all men wanted to cum in her. I still remember the way she bragged to me, so arrogantly too. I really think she truly believed it herself! I wonder if she is bragging about this to her boyfriend now that she retired.
I think these tutes need to have that kind of mentality to enjoy multiple stranger's cum swirling in their mouths per day. Especially before the law when any penis, dirty or clean can dump their loads deep in their mouths. Really makes me think what they do with these skills / mentality after they retire.Extra 50 euro for CIM at GT? It is 25 euro right?
I have to add though. I like this feeling of guarantee before going to the club or waking up in the morning during my one week FKK trips, you know this feeling you get that you going to have good sex that you want with beauty that you want today, and with globe zurich I feel you can get this feeling where as I know that I would hate this feeling that hmmmm OK my strategy today to get this is to such and such.Yes, I remember a few years ago when I first started FKK touring. I just turned 25 and was starting to make some really good money for the first time in my life. Everyday during the tours, I would wake up and wonder who will lick my penis today? Everyday was an adventure with guaranteed satisfaction.
Just a few years ago the FKK world was a vastly different place. Artemis, Oase, Sharks, and even Palace all had good service girls ready to be picked and fucked. Most girls really wanted to please you and earn their money. Sure there were sharky girls too but good service was plentiful in all clubs without restrictions! For the first couple years of my touring there was never stress to find good girls offering great service. But ever since the beginning of this year I felt stress trying to find good service without upsell. The girls even know I like long sessions but still insist on adding on extra for this and that. Now I only go to a couple clubs that still have some service girls I like. Now I worry when I visit every few months, hoping things didn't get worse since my last trip. I really think this year might be my last year touring in Germany but I don't know if there are anything else that's better in EU or Canada.
I think these tutes need to have that kind of mentality to enjoy multiple stranger's cum swirling in their mouths per day.Yes, I remember one tute at Palace who was proud that I would be the first man of the night to give her my sperm! Haha!
Rogue Nation
08-29-17, 07:22
Having a government issued ID establishes a relationship that is directly between the government and them, and their "boyfriend" or whomever is out of the loop. I think that would give them a sense of a bit more autonomy and control. And the government is no longer an enemy, but rather almost a partner in that they establish her legitimacy.You don't believe what you just posted, do you?
Smoke Light
08-29-17, 15:14
You don't believe what you just posted, do you?I side with NS hypothesis here. Whatever government does makes girls feel more protected in their work. That's the sentiment I got from many Romanians and one German girl this August.
Smoke Light
08-29-17, 15:37
P.S.:
I have to add though. I like this feeling of guarantee before going to the club I must say no guarantees in Germany FKK any more. But if good service is above 70 percent, as in my experience, I consider it quite all right.
I haven't interviewed the girls before the room and made no promises beyond 30 min sessions. Within 5 min in the room I knew the answers to all important questions. But I can assure you, most girls really want good business and repeated customers. I can only hope the trend doesn't change in the future.
Also, girls talk about clients more than before. My impression is that's the only topic for them nowadays. Seems like another cause of the new law.
AznHotBoy. Exactly right.
Neuro. I think you might be right about girls who feel comfortable in Germany. On the other hand I have met quite a few who I am sure won't be able to negotiate the process without help from an "agent". My first reaction is that the law will make them more dependent on their agent, but maybe once they have got into the system even they might feel a bit more independent.
I'll try to ask, but the problem is the sort of girls I am talking about have limited English or German for discussion such delicate issues.
They have to answer to club management, perhaps a "boyfriend" or worse, and are in a country they don't really understand. Also chances are that the cops are more unfair and corrupt back home (e.g. Romania), and the assumption that things in Germany are the same adds to their sense of not having control over their situation.
Having a government issued ID establishes a relationship that is directly between the government and them, and their "boyfriend" or whomever is out of the loop.To take them permanently out of the loop, the Romanian WG would have to permanently settle in Germany, which many choose not to.
It's not so easy to get way from a "boyfriend", because often it is not a single person, but likely a network of individuals with connections.
But ever since the beginning of this year I felt stress trying to find good service without upsell. The girls even know I like long sessions but still insist on adding on extra for this and that. Now I only go to a couple clubs that still have some service girls I like. You've made it known that you spend thousands of EUR on some of your favorite WGs. Are these the same WGs that insist on adding extras?
Have you ever tried saying "No" or just simply ignoring their Whatsapp messages? Chances are they will re-engage the negotiation a few months later, because I'd assume you are a gold / platinum level customer for most of your favorites.
Yes, I remember a few years ago when I first started FKK touring. I just turned 25 and was starting to make some really good money for the first time in my life. Everyday during the tours, I would wake up and wonder who will lick my penis today? Everyday was an adventure with guaranteed satisfaction.
Just a few years ago the FKK world was a vastly different place. Artemis, Oase, Sharks, and even Palace all had good service girls ready to be picked and fucked. Most girls really wanted to please you and earn their money. Sure there were sharky girls too but good service was plentiful in all clubs without restrictions! For the first couple years of my touring there was never stress to find good girls offering great service. But ever since the beginning of this year I felt stress trying to find good service without upsell. The girls even know I like long sessions but still insist on adding on extra for this and that. Now I only go to a couple clubs that still have some service girls I like. Now I worry when I visit every few months, hoping things didn't get worse since my last trip. I really think this year might be my last year touring in Germany but I don't know if there are anything else that's better in EU or Canada.That is the point I was trying to convey. I hate this not sure feeling. And yes I used to enjoy this secure feeling too till about 2014-ish, then recently it stopped and now with the law.
Well globe Zurich is secure as a safety net, but I have some hope for NRW region, as for Hessen and Artemis. I don't know how it is going to be now. But nrw is worth a one more try to see as service is better there in general.
I must say no guarantees in Germany FKK any more. But if good service is above 70 percent, as in my experience, I consider it quite all right.
I haven't interviewed the girls before the room and made no promises beyond 30 min sessions. Within 5 min in the room I knew the answers to all important questions. But I can assure you, most girls really want good business and repeated customers. I can only hope the trend doesn't change in the future.
Also, girls talk about clients more than before. My impression is that's the only topic for them nowadays. Seems like another cause of the new law.I am willing to pay for longer session as long as service is delivered and price offered is fair. But now we can say good bye to 50 euro BBBJ included session, oh I will miss that I am on good deal feeling I used to have for many years LOL.
Well let us see.
Unfortunately the girls don't have any statistics to look at, but if they had I am sure some of the upselling girls would rip their own hair off after realising how many potential repeat customers they would have had if they didn't do all their upselling. The greed makes them push their luck too far, and as soon as the customer see it as a bad sign, he is lost to her. Though luck really. Finding good service girls has become a psychology game in most clubs now. Unfortunately.
I had fun on my last trip advising almost every guy I met to go with the girls who did the best service. And avoid those who held back. And that is how many other guys does it too. If the girls think they can just force top service girls in a club to provide less (like they did to Lucy at Palace), the losers will be the clubs and the other girls in the club. Because even if we do 2 sessions with the top girls, we might also try a random 3rd. But we won't go back to clubs with [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) poor service. Or where the girls in a certain club is trying to play you out of your money.
In the end the illusion we are paying for is not about how to loose money fastest. If the girls don't like a clubs price rate, they should all leave the club. And move to a more high rate club. Then the old club might take the hint and raise the prices the girls should take as an advisory rate. The girls choose the price themselves just doesn't work, and everyone looses from it. But the begging trend is a sad story.
Neurosynth
08-30-17, 00:26
You don't believe what you just posted, do you?Yes, keeping in mind I'm describing what the girl might feel rather than the reality of the situation.
OK, so lets play a game here.
Random girl you are talking to cut through and ask the following:
- What do you want to do in the room?
What is your response?
(We all know this question is a terrible sign of things to come, but try to be quirky here).
Extra 50 euro for CIM at GT? It is 25 euro right?I always paid 50 E since 2014. Never asked if it was cheaper or not and I don't think anyone ever told me other wise. Actually I never knew about 25 E for CIM at GT until I found this forum.
You've made it known that you spend thousands of EUR on some of your favorite WGs. Are these the same WGs that insist on adding extras?
Have you ever tried saying "No" or just simply ignoring their Whatsapp messages? Chances are they will re-engage the negotiation a few months later, because I'd assume you are a gold / platinum level customer for most of your favorites.No not my regulars, they are all fine still. But that's not the spirit of mongering. The spirit is to keep exploring and try new girls! When I go up to new girls they always will say they see me spend a lot of time with my regular and ask me how much I pay my regulars. They don't believe me when I tell them I pay regular prices and even discounts. They always want extra charge for this and that.
These new girls don't understand buying in volume. Sure I spend thousands on my regulars but they also spend a lot of time with me, in and outside the he clubs. Honestly I pay my regulars 40 to 50 E per hour if we factor in every hour. But I buy in volume and my regulars will take the low rates. The ones on my whatsapp are good girls, cheap hourly rates with all extras free.
When I try new girls I will not buy that high amount of time. An hour or two max. If they give free extras they will get me to buy the high volume and keep me as a regular but these new girls don't. I don't know if they don't know or don't care for such business.
Just last year I would spend about 30% of my time with my regulars and spend other times exploring new girls but this year I've spent at least half of my time with my regulars because I had bad experiences finding new ones. I feel like the few regular girls I have at NRW are the only safety nets I have left, but they might retire any time.
When I go up to new girls they always will say they see me spend a lot of time with my regular and ask me how much I pay my regulars. They don't believe me when I tell them I pay regular prices and even discounts. They always want extra charge for this and that.
Thanks for the context. It's good to hear that once WGs make it your Whatsapp, they've already been screened as "good girls".
Are you in the room already when they inform you of extras? What is your reaction generally? Do you walk away immediately? Do you agree to pay the extra? For the times that you agreed to pay the extra, did you ever repeat the WG or reward her with longer rooms? If you walked away, did you or did she ever re-approach on subsequent visits?
You know you guys, the other shoe hasn't fallen around here! There's been all this talk and angst over BBBJ / CIM service, but I predict that this will have a smaller impact on the scene than what's coming later. Somebody else mentioned it before. The requirement to register, get an ID, go to counselings, and maybe even a crackdown on tax reporting requirements. Neurosynth can go on about girls being "proud" to be ID'd as a prostitute, but that's not the majority of these girls we've been fucking. Tell that to Artemis Lilia and plenty of others like her. She told me she is going to be out of there! Along with plenty of others I think. All we got to do is follow the wiff of that wuss to find them! Hahaha! Now, will those who bolt return after finding that the grass wasn't greener in Switzerland, Austria, Spain, and The Netherlands (or wherever they go)? Somebody here has suggested that too. I just think it's too early to tell and we're getting ahead of ourselves to conclude that. We need more time on that one. I mean, if girls bolt and mongers follow, then the pickings could be good. I know this. I definitely want to know where Lilia ends up! Yes siree Bob!
Are you in the room already when they inform you of extras? What is your reaction generally? Do you walk away immediately? Do you agree to pay the extra? For the times that you agreed to pay the extra, did you ever repeat the WG or reward her with longer rooms? If you walked away, did you or did she ever re-approach on subsequent visits?I don't do 30 m sessions so I always tell the girl let's start with 1 h and see how it goes from there. In the past usually this prompts the girl to offer really good service to make me extend with them but usually on first sessions I don't past 2 h. In the first couple years I only cut short a few sessions to 30 m because the girls are unresponsive and upsell within 20 m or so. Recently this year I've cut short most of my sessions with new girls. Just pay the 50 E and cut my loss. I pay for all extras if I ask them, but if they insist it then I turn it down or cut the session. I have only repeated with 1 girl after a short session, because she was very persistent and I wanted a revenge fuck. Let's just say she never asked for another session after that one. Her service was terrible the second time as well.
I always pay for extras if I ask for it on a new girl with 1 or 2 h sessions. I don't cheat the girls. My regulars does everything I want for free and never complain. Those girls make it to my whatsapp, and I book them for multiple days.
Pistons, McAdonis, AznHotBoy. How right you all are. Increasing numbers of girls seem unwilling to understand that customers buying volume time will be lost if the girls are greedy.
I have discussed this with a few and it seems maybe to be not a rational issue about money. They subscribe to a subculture in a club which measures a girl's self esteem by the amount they can get above the going rate. It is an emotional issue. They say they would rather earn 100 euros for half hour's work than 300 for three hours work. They all know first hand of course that some men are more than happy to pay 500 for one hour, and they dream of being those men's princesses.
I agree with you all: we should only go for the "good" girls.
As I meet a higher proportion of greedy girls my club spending is declining. I used to spend maybe 500 a day. Now it is likely to be 250, unless I am with a "good" girl. That's an annual spending drop of about 7500 euros.
As I meet a higher proportion of greedy girls my club spending is declining. I used to spend maybe 500 a day. Now it is likely to be 250, unless I am with a "good" girl. That's an annual spending drop of about 7500 euros.Same with me. Never had a lower daily spent average than on my last trip. And that trip even included 5 days in Austria. It used to be 300-350 in average for a long time. This last trip it was down at 200-250. Of course I've also never done more FKK days in a row at one trip, but I cancelled a bunch of repeats and girls after just talking. But the biggest loss for the girls in most clubs is that the weed out I am doing makes me bored of most clubs after just 1 or 2 days. In the past I could stay at the same club for almost a week.
Member #4581
08-30-17, 21:34
But I suspect it takes some give and take before a girl makes it to his WhatsApp, no? He is giving volume business to the girl because she is proven. As he said, the first session is likely to be an hour or two at the max. Over time, she realizes the guy is a good customer for the long term, he realizes the girl will appreciate and reward volume business, and things go swimmingly. Until she retires or he is tired of her.
But in the past the theory put forward by McA has been that girls are short sighted, came from somewhat corrupted backgrounds, and don't always believe in this give and take, and want to maximize the earnings in the first few sessions -- as they are not sure if the guy will return to her reliably. In that theory McA laid out, majority of club girls (he said most Romanian girls are this way) fall into that category, and hence most relationships in the clubs sorta fall apart within a few sessions and never progress to the kind described by AZN.
You know you guys, the other shoe hasn't fallen around here! There's been all this talk and angst over BBBJ / CIM service, but I predict that this will have a smaller impact on the scene than what's coming later. Somebody else mentioned it before. The requirement to register, get an ID, go to counselings, and maybe even a crackdown on tax reporting requirements. Neurosynth can go on about girls being "proud" to be ID'd as a prostitute, but that's not the majority of these girls we've been fucking. Tell that to Artemis Lilia and plenty of others like her. She told me she is going to be out of there! Along with plenty of others I think. All we got to do is follow the wiff of that wuss to find them! Hahaha! Now, will those who bolt return after finding that the grass wasn't greener in Switzerland, Austria, Spain, and The Netherlands (or wherever they go)? Somebody here has suggested that too. I just think it's too early to tell and we're getting ahead of ourselves to conclude that. We need more time on that one. I mean, if girls bolt and mongers follow, then the pickings could be good. I know this. I definitely want to know where Lilia ends up! Yes siree Bob!Well I will lost my favorite kind of girls which are German girls doing tute business on the side secretly over day off or over summer holiday type of girls.
Or we may begin to see these type of girls out side Germany like in Zurich globe over the weekend or over summer holiday to make quick bucks without registering in their home nation Germany.
I don't do 30 m sessions so I always tell the girl let's start with 1 h and see how it goes from there. In the past usually this prompts the girl to offer really good service to make me extend with them but usually on first sessions I don't past 2 h. In the first couple years I only cut short a few sessions to 30 m because the girls are unresponsive and upsell within 20 m or so. Recently this year I've cut short most of my sessions with new girls. Just pay the 50 E and cut my loss. I pay for all extras if I ask them, but if they insist it then I turn it down or cut the session. I have only repeated with 1 girl after a short session, because she was very persistent and I wanted a revenge fuck. Let's just say she never asked for another session after that one. Her service was terrible the second time as well.
I always pay for extras if I ask for it on a new girl with 1 or 2 h sessions. I don't cheat the girls. My regulars does everything I want for free and never complain. Those girls make it to my whatsapp, and I book them for multiple days.I was never really the strategy type, but now I got to be, so I will use this extend from one hour opening talk LOL.
Putting carrot front of horses face, I shall ride it like a kamikaze rodeo LOL.
But in the past the theory put forward by McA has been that girls are short sighted, came from somewhat corrupted backgrounds, and don't always believe in this give and take, and want to maximize the earnings in the first few sessions -- as they are not sure if the guy will return to her reliably. In that theory McA laid out, majority of club girls (he said most Romanian girls are this way) fall into that category, and hence most relationships in the clubs sorta fall apart within a few sessions and never progress to the kind described by AZN.I think the new girls are definitely more short sighted than the girls that started this job in the early 2010's. I still keep in contact with a couple of my retired regulars. One moved to UK and another back to Hungary, they were both pretty wise about their money and is currently living well. I'd say all my regulars were pretty smart, maybe had some misfortune lives and needed to work as prostitutes but not because they weren't smart enough to do other things. Also I can't spend time outside the club with a girl if she is a stupid warm sex doll.
One of my current regulars told me she likes spending the whole day with me because it is not too much stress for her. Of course she can make more money if she get 10 customers per day and every one pay for extras, but those days are rare, most days they make only 500 E or less servicing multiple guys and some days they break even. That plus the stress of hunting down her next customer. I pay them 500 - 1000 E per day for 1-3 days of course the smarter girl will take that offer.
Most newer girls feel less intelligent and probably more short sighted too. I don't care for short sessions but if I have to I guess I'll have to adjust. Like Optimist said, I guess I'll spend less money. LOL!
OK, so lets play a game here.
Random girl you are talking to cut through and ask the following:
- What do you want to do in the room?
What is your response?
(We all know this question is a terrible sign of things to come, but try to be quirky here).Everything for 50 euro LOL.
I always paid 50 E since 2014. Never asked if it was cheaper or not and I don't think anyone ever told me other wise. Actually I never knew about 25 E for CIM at GT until I found this forum.Girls must have been happy, well it is 50 euro in Hessen and Berlin, but in NRW, it is 25 euro for CIM, which I was surprised when I first went to NRW as I was also used to 50 euro for CIM till I get to NRW FKK. Is it still 25 euro CIM in NRW FKK after July? Anyone? I hope it is.
Also is CIM 25 euro in Oceans too? I never tried CIM in Oceans.
I have a much better approach at some clubs. I ask for whatsapp after just one or two 30 min sessions from the girls I really like. Only those who gives it to me can truly be trusted. Although at some clubs this is easier than at others. I feel there are major club variations on this making it harder to get at some clubs such as Artemis for example.
They say they would rather earn 100 euros for half hour's work than 300 for three hours work. They all know first hand of course that some men are more than happy to pay 500 for one hourMany so-called "greedy girls" started off as "good girls". So they have experience on both sides, yet chose the dark side. We have to wonder why.
Good girl break down, Total effort: 4 hours, Earnings: 300 EUR, 15 minutes pre-zimmer, 3 hours room time,15 minutes post-zimmer, 15 minutes social media / Whatsapp maintenance post-visit
Greedy girl at tourist club, Total effort: 1 h30 minutes, Earnings: 250 EUR , 2 h30 min smoking cigarettes with other WGs, 15 minute room, 100 EUR (charge extra for DFK), 30 minute room, 150 EUR (charge extra for DATY and time cheat), 45 minutes hunting, failed approaches, getting rejected.
So for the same four hour snapshot, greedy girl's earnings are about 15% less. But she spends significantly less time interacting with male customers. Pretending to like their customers and their job is mentally stressful for most.
But in the past the theory put forward by McA has been that girls are short sighted, came from somewhat corrupted backgrounds, and don't always believe in this give and take, and want to maximize the earnings in the first few sessions -- as they are not sure if the guy will return to her reliably. I did say WGs are "short-sighted" and Romanians have a healthy sense of "distrust" due to their upbringing. But that was probably more in response to those who expect a WG to give her absolute best in the first 30 minutes, with zero commitment to extending to 60 minute session. Many WGs did that and were rewarded with either zero or minimal repeat / referral business.
Smoke Light
08-31-17, 21:21
Is it still 25 euroLR and Samya, but YMMV.
Rogue Nation
08-31-17, 21:56
Greedy girls are not only ripping of customers. It's also unfair to all the girls who do work for the standard rate giving good service. Good girls should report the greedy girls to management.
HB.
UltraHappy
09-01-17, 03:57
The real reason men are circumcised, herpes, and the hymen doesn't work the way you thought it did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttqBODr-vTg
LR and Samya, but YMMV.It is not 25 euro CIM at GT Bruggen now?
LR and Samya, but YMMV.25 at GT and LR when provided, not so sure for this rate at Samya or Oceans or Aca or PHG.
Rogue Nation
09-01-17, 09:16
Is it still 25 euro CIM in NRW FKK after July? Anyone? I hope it is.The new law applies also to NRW.
The new law applies also to NRW.Yeah I know, but I hear BBBJ is still standard in NRW FKKs.
John Traveller
09-03-17, 11:04
I will soon visit two of the clubs in Hessen / Frankfurt area. As I only have been to NRW / Dueseldorf FKKs before I am new to Mainhattan, Palace, Sharks, Oase, World.
As I hate silicone my question is: In which of the clubs can I find mostly girls with natural tits? I have read the forum, but still I don't have a full overview of this.
Looks, service and such things also matters of course, but here there are just to many variables, so I just ask the simple question stated above. I will visit on two different Saturdays.
Rogue Nation
09-03-17, 12:25
Highest percentage of silicone tits: Palace.
Lowest percentage of silicone tits: World.
All other clubs do have a good mix of god made and man made boobs.
Mongerer88
09-03-17, 13:54
The real reason men are circumcised, herpes, and the hymen doesn't work the way you thought it did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttqBODr-vTgWasn't that video made before this study?
http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/
I will soon visit two of the clubs in Hessen / Frankfurt area. As I only have been to NRW / Dueseldorf FKKs before I am new to Mainhattan, Palace, Sharks, Oase, World.
As I hate silicone my question is: In which of the clubs can I find mostly girls with natural tits? I have read the forum, but still I don't have a full overview of this.
Looks, service and such things also matters of course, but here there are just to many variables, so I just ask the simple question stated above. I will visit on two different Saturdays.Palace probably always had the highest level at over 50%.
Oase right now has a low percentage at 10% or so (no I did not count them wild estimate) however that does not mean all tits are really great. Can't say which club might have less silicone.
I think most FKKs have plenty of non silicone except for Palace seems a bit too high.
I don't book silicone unless girl is exceptional, so does happen but infrequently.
Some girls are happy to have small tits but nice shape.
Try a few clubs to see what you like.
UltraHappy
09-03-17, 19:06
Wasn't that video made before this study?
http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/I don't think so, because Adam specifically refers to the results of those studies in the YouTube video.
All For Bb
09-04-17, 03:51
I just met you on line in Thailand. Are you back to FKK? I plan to visit in two weeks. Hope the girls will be back from the vacation and Auto Massie in Frankfurt will not make the clubs too busy, and new law does not make girls up-sell too much.
Palace probably always had the highest level at over 50%.
Oase right now has a low percentage at 10% or so (no I did not count them wild estimate) however that does not mean all tits are really great. Can't say which club might have less silicone.
I think most FKKs have plenty of non silicone except for Palace seems a bit too high.
I don't book silicone unless girl is exceptional, so does happen but infrequently.
Some girls are happy to have small tits but nice shape.
Try a few clubs to see what you like.
The real reason men are circumcised, herpes, and the hymen doesn't work the way you thought it did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttqBODr-vTgI've been telling lots of people some of the same things Adam says in that video. It doesn't mean they listen. The entire society of today is brainwashed, so better just talk to a wall. And it goes for too many other things in today's society also. Sad thing is how schools are teaching so much ludicrous information too.
UltraHappy
09-04-17, 23:38
I've been telling lots of people some of the same things Adam says in that video. It doesn't mean they listen. The entire society of today is brainwashed, so better just talk to a wall. And it goes for too many other things in today's society also. Sad thing is how schools are teaching so much ludicrous information too.I guess the hymen thing is kind of obvious since it has to work that way, otherwise, where how would the period blood get out? I had just never considered that before so I had been laboring under the misapprehension that everyone else seems to assume as well.
One less mystery about the female body. Only 687 more to go.
Yeah I know, but I hear BBBJ is still standard in NRW FKKs.It would be foolish to think that BBBJ went away completely overnight. BUT.
Men are being told CBJ. Some men just care about fucking the hottest WG. Some men just care about DFK. Some men just care about chemistry.
Either way, WGs (usually the hottest, youngest) at certain clubs know that they can continue to make money even if they only offer CBJ. Domino effect is possible.
All For Bb
09-07-17, 08:51
Any impacts on the FKK clubs' line-up before and during the German election? Any anticipation for the fkk line-up between 9/18-24?
Any impacts on the FKK clubs' line-up before and during the German election? Why should there be?
All For Bb
09-07-17, 11:38
Why should there be?Either people busy to vote or like US, election day is a holiday (no need to go to work), so busy in FKK club?
UltraHappy
09-07-17, 13:53
Either people busy to vote or like US, election day is a holiday (no need to go to work), so busy in FKK club?In the States, election day is a normal work day. No holiday. Most employers allow a short amount of personal time away from work to vote, but most of us simply early vote before election day to avoid the long lines.
In the States, election day is a normal work day. No holiday. Most employers allow a short amount of personal time away from work to vote, but most of us simply early vote before election day to avoid the long lines.I'm not 100% sure about Germany, but in most European countries voting isn't exactly a day's chore. I voted many times in the Netherlands and on average it takes about 30 seconds. The longest I've waited is less than 5 minutes.
Rogue Nation
09-07-17, 21:21
Election day is a Sunday. Impact on FKK clubs: zero.
All For Bb
09-08-17, 06:41
When will the FKK girls be come back from their summer vacations? When will line-up be back to the normal peak?
Rogue Nation
09-08-17, 07:25
All clubs require the girls to return on Monday, September 11 at 12 am.
UltraHappy
09-08-17, 12:08
When will the FKK girls be come back from their summer vacations? When will line-up be back to the normal peak?They usually return in anticipation of the Fall Messe schedule, led by the Auto Messe, which begins in 5 days and 19 hours. So, all of the girls should be returning very soon, if not already returned. A small number of girls intentionally skip the auto Messe due to the "stress" of the event but not many.
http://www.gegen-kondompflicht.de/
Gives details of a constitutional complaint to be legally submitted.
I have not signed as I thought it might not help to have foreigners sign it.
I am not sure of the details of German judicial processes so I'm not sure of the significance of this event.
http://www.gegen-kondompflicht.de/
Gives details of a constitutional complaint to be legally submitted.
I have not signed as I thought it might not help to have foreigners sign it.
I am not sure of the details of German judicial processes so I'm not sure of the significance of this event.The site looks serious and professional. It doesn't say what the costs are. It wants a name and email address, but no other information. I would ask first what the costs are expected to be and how they will be paid. Allegedly only a small fee, but it would be good to know how much before signing up.
Rogue Nation
09-09-17, 10:52
But the site says there are costs. Whatever they might be.
PussyLiccker
09-13-17, 12:06
Interesting situation ran into regarding car rental.
I landed in Amsterdam, Schiphol airport (as sometimes I get good flight deals for nearby countries).
Although the rental terms clearly stated 20% location fee or 55 Euros minimum will be charged for airport location, I was not charged. This wasn't the first time, and it's 2/2 times that I was not charged for location fee on top of the rental at Schiphol. In both instances location fees weren't charged. Good surprise to save money.
Another weird occurance was I rental from Dollar in the past without issue in Schiphol. In DE I would never rent from Dollar/Thrifty.
If you refuse additional insurance, they will likely freeze your account of certain amount 1k+ Euros for damages. This shouldn't be an issue for those check the car well, and don't get it dinged up as it will be released after the rental.
If you refuse insurance and do not have insurance provided from your credit car, you are taking a gamble.
If you rent from places like hbf or airport that charges location fees, check your statements after the rental. There is a difference between rental charges and rental + location fee charges. They may not tell you the location fees, but it can be charged as it's in the terms. And this is a big slice of pie for the rental cost.
If you do a lot of driving, make sure to check in the agreement for unlimited milage. Depending on how much you drive, the extra milage can add up significantly for going past your agreed limitations on milage per day or week. It can depend on other things as well(as lower rental price quotes can mean limited milage), but in Hamburg majority of rentals were limited on a pricing aggregate website.
Also keep in mind some aggregate websites quote you higher due to additional cost in the terms taken into consideration. Which doesn't mean higher overall rental costs than lower quotes in other websites.
http://www.gegen-kondompflicht.de/
Gives details of a constitutional complaint to be legally submitted.
I have not signed as I thought it might not help to have foreigners sign it.
I am not sure of the details of German judicial processes so I'm not sure of the significance of this event.Basically July 1st law gave tutes more reasons to upsell you and price range is getting closer to closer to Zurich Globe.
I will see how it will turn out for me in winter time sometime when I go.
PussyLiccker
09-15-17, 12:23
Mr Ho. Visit, experience, and then you will know the realities of what is going on(where, to what extent, etc). If you know people that visit various clubs, you can ask them what goes on in the clubs privately.
UltraHappy
09-15-17, 12:52
Basically July 1st law gave tutes more reasons to upsell you and price range is getting closer to closer to Zurich Globe.
I will see how it will turn out for me in winter time sometime when I go.And until then, you will continue to frenetically post your ongoing paranoia about the scene even though this subject has been talked to death. Yes, we know, thank you.
Why don't you try not expressing opinions about price ranges in Hessen that are not based on your own personal field observations and which are based only on your imagined fears?
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