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Member #4585
04-06-18, 00:20
I do not have much experience with Rimming and the topic has been hijacked by guys who love their assholes played with.Ass play is more porno, pervert and intimate. Don't knock it until your have tried it.
Where do you go for a dump when you explained that you sleep in your rental car?
Member #4585
04-06-18, 00:22
I have never ever ever had a girl rim me who would not kiss me. This makes perfect sense, in fact rimming is seen as far more intimate an act by some girls. I have had many girls kiss me who would not rim me and I also have had some girls spontaneously rim me without asking.
One German girl in the Globe who was an enthusiastic kisser who licked my area underneath my testicles still said she could not rim me because that was too intimate. So my experiences are identical to yours.
Rimming without kissing, never ever happened to me.Yeah. So good getting rimjob. She has to kiss you afterwards.
I think that EU resolution is non-binding IIRC. Anyways I don't think a country like Germany will make prostitution illegal for a number of reasons. The countries that adapted the Swedish model are those that strongly opposed prostitution for years or decades, with the exception of Canada. Of course it hasn't stopped prostitution and outside of Sweden enforcement seems weak. Toronto and Montreal has many escort agencies and massage parlors that advertise online and France has a big underground escort scene. Besides I think more people and organizations are starting to recognize sex work as legitimate and there is been growing criticism towards the Swedish model on prostitution.Since Germany decriminalized in 2002, have any other countries in EU followed suit? Since Swedish adopted its model in 1999, which countries have followed their example? Norway, Iceland, Northern Ireland, France, and Ireland. So Swedish model seems to have more momentum.
Prostitution obviously still exists in Sweden. Aren't underground scenes generally more expensive? Is France more expensive now than it was before the 2016 reform?
The primary reason to decriminalize in DE and NL was to protect WGs (more benefits, more rights, and stop human-traf problem). Many think that decriminalization has not helped. Seems to me the 2017 laws are like chemotherapy. In other words, more aggressive treatment to eradicate the cancer. If that fails, they may decide to amputate I. E. Adopt the Swedish model.
Member #4581
04-06-18, 00:37
I will amend my statement to only CIM as I do not have much experience with Rimming and the topic has been hijacked by guys who love their assholes played with.
The original point was why girls do not kiss but will do other nasty things like take CIM. Point was that attraction matters.
Again 3 easy names of girls who don't kiss or only baby kiss but will happily take your load in her mouth: Athena, Estephania, Lily of Sharks.No hijacking needed — was your own statement. You always walk back your own words?
CIM is an extra. Not the same thing at all.
Attraction might do wonders outside the club. Inside, the only language is Euros.
Member #4581
04-06-18, 01:44
Bad breath probably explains their reluctance to kiss as much as FoI (fear of intimacy).
Bad breath probably explains their reluctance to kiss as much as FoI (fear of intimacy).The movie pretty woman began this trend originally, but some girls still do DFK and in the worst case, in FKK, money can fix most obstacle, the problem is girls want to charge every thing to maximize their profit and guys do not want to pay more than standard rate or decrease the cost of getting as much as possible from girls LOL.
In the worst case, scenario, we got Globe Zurich among other clubs in Zurich where we just pay the higher standard rate if we are willing to and negotiation is already conducted by house rule.
Whatta wonderful world we live in where we pay reasonable amount of money and we get first night of honeymoon sex as much as we want with girls around 20 to 25 years old and they look actually stunning contrary to the old image of brothels where we did not get girls to this beauty level. Times change and beauty level improved a lot comparison to before. LU was better between 2009 till 2015 though, but still I cannot complain about beauty level at all, just need more new girls who are stunners.
HungryStud101
04-06-18, 04:02
Rimming without kissing, never ever happened to me.Hmmm. This is a tough one. I have to say that every girl I have ever rimmed I have also kissed but the order was Kiss first and then rim. I have had a few that I rimmed refuse to kiss after the rim job. But what am I to do? I am a blow job and I have to go down on them. I see a beautiful woman and I want to put her in my mouth. I revert back to infancy. The more beautiful the women the more disgusting body part I want to put in my mouth.
6 - 7- suck tits.
7 - 8 - Eat pussy.
8+ - I am licking asshole.
I don't understand it myself.
Delta Indigo
04-06-18, 05:39
Hmmm. This is a tough one. I have to say that every girl I have ever rimmed I have also kissed but the order was Kiss first and then rim. I have had a few that I rimmed refuse to kiss after the rim job. But what am I to do? I am a blow job and I have to go down on them. I see a beautiful woman and I want to put her in my mouth. I revert back to infancy. The more beautiful the women the more disgusting body part I want to put in my mouth.
6 - 7- suck tits.
7 - 8 - Eat pussy.
8+ - I am licking asshole.
I don't understand it myself.I actually do understand it. I would say the more gorgeous the girl and her ass.
Kissing is considered very intimate by some / many girls. So they will not kiss a (or at least not every) client but only their BF. It's not because they are afraid to get feelings for the client. That's why they do CIM, rimjobs, allow many practices men would consider a lot more disgusting than kissing. 15 years ago Daniela at Oase would DFK me when she was single and not kiss at all when she had a BF. Was my first question each time we met: Single or not?I would just have to end this guessing you will agree to disagree. But then all I hear is this:
https://youtu.be/8AIwaSD9Sco
P.S.: Passion is not the same as intimate fluid or dirt exchanges. One is hormonal. The other one is physical. And sex is also physical, so a rimjob or a CIM as you claim are the same, are not. Definitely not. And invalid arguments.
Ass play is more porno, pervert and intimate. Don't knock it until your have tried it.
Where do you go for a dump when you explained that you sleep in your rental car?You dump before you leave the FKK. Or you hold it in? Normally it only means 3-6 hours outside of an FKK if you leave at closing and enter when they open. Most people should be able to shut their hut unless they are 300 pounds and eat a horse every day.
Samson Monger
04-06-18, 07:58
Ass play is more porno, pervert and intimate. Don't knock it until your have tried it.
Where do you go for a dump when you explained that you sleep in your rental car?1. Just poking fun, no worries.
2. I'm sure everyone else here will be happy tonhear about my pooping habits, LOL. Being regular helps. I'm a post morning coffee pooper. But making sure you're empty before leaving the club is probably not a bad idea. Anyway, it's really only 8-9 hours per day not being in the club, one can pass enough gas to keep from implosion. Worst case scenario, drive to a petrol station.
Samson Monger
04-06-18, 08:17
But today many think of Latin america when one says Latin perhaps. And the Latinos in America may just be further away from the original Latin (italic) population than any Romanians are.So seems like that are most people just don't understand culture then. As an American, I can tell yoh that Romanians behave very similar to Latinos from South and Central America, more similar than to Italians.
Samson Monger
04-06-18, 08:23
No hijacking needed was your own statement. You always walk back your own words?
CIM is an extra. Not the same thing at all.
Attraction might do wonders outside the club. Inside, the only language is Euros.No I don't. But I understand that many internet trollers like to harp on impertinent details. My mistake for not anticipating accordingly.
I just like to talk in practical terms rather than technicalities as the ass-licking comment was used for descriptive effect.
If you think attraction does nothing then I guess you've never been able to take a WG out for no charge or get free services which are usually extra, then I understand your POV. Some of us have so we have different experiences.
In theory, you are correct. But you are making the assumption that men can be honest with themselves. First all, this is not a theory, this is my first-hand experience after mongering for long time. When I posted anything here, I never have used any theory from textbook or somewhere and I never will. I always use my personal experience about our topics. Whether men can be honest with themselves is another topic to discuss.
The amount of work to "convince" the WG may be insurmountable. It depends on who the monger is. If the monger is much better than the WG, I. E. If in real life he can get MUCH-BETTER-looking girls than the WG, the convincing work would be much easier.
The fact that she knows you are an experienced monger and you met her in a brothel, that is already two strikes against you. Simply being a "monger" implies some non-desirable character traits. Or implies you may lack value in the normal mating market. Basically I agree with you on this except that it depends on what is monger's objective. If the monger only looks for romantic involvement with the WG spiritually, I. E. Not going out for diner, watching movies and so on, just spiritually in the FKK clubs, then the monger achieves his objective. Yes, if the monger looks for real traditional relationship (like normal romantic relationship in real life), it is difficult unless the monger is much better than the WG as I explained above.
Kissing is considered very intimate by some / many girls. So they will not kiss a (or at least not every) client but only their BF. It's not because they are afraid to get feelings for the client. That's why they do CIM, rimjobs, allow many practices men would consider a lot more disgusting than kissing. 15 years ago Daniela at Oase would DFK me when she was single and not kiss at all when she had a BF. Was my first question each time we met: Single or not?Correct. I would add that in many cases their boyfriends don't allow the WGs to kiss (and make anal sex) as the condition to allow them to work as the WGs, because their boyfriends want to feel they are special and unique to the WGs and can get kiss and anal sex with the WGs which nobody else can get.
This seems to be a coherent, well thought out view on monger-WG relations. Much better than theories that attempt to apply the blanket of mediocrity on everyone.Thank you for your compliment.
The amount of work to "convince" the WG may be insurmountable.Depends on what you mean by insurmountable. Marriage? Or a few month fling? Some free AO? You and I both know from our personal experiences that winning a WG's affection, if only temporarily, is entirely possible.
At Takedown: The only EE girls in the clubs (yes, they are the majority but haven't always been) with a Latin language are Romanians. Bulgaria, Czech, Poland, Hungary etc. Do have a very different background regarding language.
EE girls and Latinas have very different behavior & culture. Don't know how you come to the conclusion that they are similar.In addition to my own experiences, I'm not alone in my belief that Romanians are Latin. Here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_peoples
Since Germany decriminalized in 2002, have any other countries in EU followed suit? Since Swedish adopted its model in 1999, which countries have followed their example? Norway, Iceland, Northern Ireland, France, and Ireland. So Swedish model seems to have more momentum.
Prostitution obviously still exists in Sweden. Aren't underground scenes generally more expensive? Is France more expensive now than it was before the 2016 reform?
The primary reason to decriminalize in DE and NL was to protect WGs (more benefits, more rights, and stop human-traf problem). Many think that decriminalization has not helped. Seems to me the 2017 laws are like chemotherapy. In other words, more aggressive treatment to eradicate the cancer. If that fails, they may decide to amputate I. E. Adopt the Swedish model.Something to consider, we all probably agree that politics in capitalist societies are pretty financially driven. The more clubs and Eros centers that open up, the bigger the German prostitution machine grows. Their physical presence and tax presence also grows. I don't know if these other countries that adopted the anti prostitution stance had quite the infrastructure and network that is present in Germany. It would be a big public ordeal to shut down these thousands of businesses.
Honestly, I think it is more likely that people in countries like Romania garner more wealth over the next 2-3 decades and start sending less WGs before Germany criminalizes prostitution again. From what I know about the modern, educated Romanian women and in context of 21st century women's lib trends, women in Romania will be a big part in turning that country around. That's just a personal gut feeling. I have no statistics to back that up.
As far as criminalization, if anything, local governments will have a bigger role to play. They may pass more laws and regulations that increase operation cost, impose logistical obstacles, or curtail profits and revenue streams. In the US, a common practice is to prohibit strip clubs from selling alcohol or going full nude. Some cities just would not approve liquor licenses altogether regardless of official laws. These practices often stopped new clubs from opening and caused the slow demise of the current establishments.
Either way, the FKK scene easily has at least a decade to thrive and that's as far as I care to look into the future regarding this hobby.
Samson Monger
04-06-18, 10:39
They don't kiss because they might feel attraction to guys they have sex with? I hope you don't really believe that or you probably will believe other BS the girls tell you as well.
Attraction might do wonders outside the club. Inside, the only language is Euros.
The amount of work to "convince" the WG may be insurmountable. Your collective arguments, those quoted above and some others not quoted, could only be supported if no working girl has ever had a romantic relationship with a client. I'the hope you guys know that cannot possibly be true. In fact, it is definitely not true. I agree with McA that the odds are stacked against you and with Bfsie that one must know his own worth, but romantic attraction from the girl's side happens. It probably happens every day in some club in Germany.
At
EE girls and Latinas have very different behavior & culture. Don't know how you come to the conclusion that they are similar.Well there is one thing that these two have in common.
They fuck very good LOL.
I would add that in many cases their boyfriends don't allow the WGs to kiss (and make anal sex) as the condition to allow them to work as the WGs, because their boyfriends want to feel they are special and unique to the WGs and can get kiss and anal sex with the WGs which nobody else can get.When editing away your 'correct', you are spot on.
Rogue Nation
04-06-18, 17:49
In addition to my own experiences, I'm not alone in my belief that Romanians are Latin. Here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_peoplesMaybe you should also read the links you quote. This is. As I did. Referring to the language mainly and not to nowadays behavior or culture. Plus you were addressing EE countries which in majority are not Roman / Latin.
"The term "Latin" is used in reference to European people whose cultures are particularly Roman-derived, generally including the use of Romance languages. Strong Roman legal and cultural traditions characterize these nations. Latin Europe is a major subdivision of Europe, along with Germanic-speaking Europe and Slavic Europe."
When editing away your 'correct', you are spot on.You should learn from me about politeness.
Rogue Nation
04-06-18, 20:19
Your collective arguments, those quoted above and some others not quoted, could only be supported if no working girl has ever had a romantic relationship with a client. I'the hope you guys know that cannot possibly be true. In fact, it is definitely not true. I agree with McA that the odds are stacked against you and with Bfsie that one must know his own worth, but romantic attraction from the girl's side happens. It probably happens every day in some club in Germany.No denying at all that it does happen. Just denying that the fear of falling in love with a client is the reason for not kissing.
You should learn from me about politeness.So basically we can compare your 'correct' comment to what people normally say ahead of a 'but'? If such is the case, I don't consider that politeness.
Since Germany decriminalized in 2002, have any other countries in EU followed suit? Since Swedish adopted its model in 1999, which countries have followed their example? Norway, Iceland, Northern Ireland, France, and Ireland. So Swedish model seems to have more momentum.
Prostitution obviously still exists in Sweden. Aren't underground scenes generally more expensive? Is France more expensive now than it was before the 2016 reform?
The primary reason to decriminalize in DE and NL was to protect WGs (more benefits, more rights, and stop human-traf problem). Many think that decriminalization has not helped. Seems to me the 2017 laws are like chemotherapy. In other words, more aggressive treatment to eradicate the cancer. If that fails, they may decide to amputate I. E. Adopt the Swedish model.Prostitution in Germany and Netherlands was decriminalized and / or tolerated before 2002, even during Fascism. What happened is they imposed regulations. There are people who want to adapt the Swedish model, but they are a small minority. Prostitution is not a high priority topic anyways in most European countries IIRC. Denmark thought about adapting the Swedish model but went against it 6 years ago after coming to conclusion that it will not eradicate prostitution and protect sex works from harm. Same in the UK. In fact the UK favors decriminalizing prostitution.
As far as criminalization, if anything, local governments will have a bigger role to play. They may pass more laws and regulations that increase operation cost, impose logistical obstacles, or curtail profits and revenue streams.As far as obstacles, Germany has some as well with regard to zoning: "98% of Germany geographically, and over 90% of German towns and cities are restricted areas, and over two-thirds of German residents live in a city where commercial sex is prohibited."
Even though prostitution is completely legal, it is still stigmatized. Tolerated more than welcomed. It's in the industry's best interest that everybody sees the recent reforms as "effective".
Member #4581
04-06-18, 22:04
No I don't. But I understand that many internet trollers like to harp on impertinent details. My mistake for not anticipating accordingly.
I just like to talk in practical terms rather than technicalities as the ass-licking comment was used for descriptive effect.
If you think attraction does nothing then I guess you've never been able to take a WG out for no charge or get free services which are usually extra, then I understand your POV. Some of us have so we have different experiences.Haha. SM or TD or whatever. Why the need for 2 avatars? (My 2 cents — I like Samson better). Anyway, your words are there, in all their glory just 2 pages ago. You might think blaming others (for pointing that you keep walking back your own words) makes you an alpha male, but in the real world we think that is silly and sad.
I don't cheat girls out of paying what's rightfully theirs. That's just me. And I have no illusion that this is strictly a commercial transaction. But if you want to believe all the BS a girls fakes in the club, no one will stop you.
So seems like that are most people just don't understand culture then. As an American, I can tell yoh that Romanians behave very similar to Latinos from South and Central America, more similar than to Italians.Better to list character traits, behaviors, or habits, where you see similarities or provide examples. Behavior can also be attributed to age or economic background, or life experiences, like being a migrant population. Culture can also mean food, music, art. Romania has fallen under different spheres of influence: Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, Russian. That makes it unique from Italy, Spain, Portugal, and France.
Linguistically, Romanian is without a doubt Latin. They are geographically separated from the other Latin languages due to invasions from the Slavic tribes following disintegration of Byzantine Empire. Linguistics just suggest a common lineage at one time. The language of modern-day Turks and Hungarian is believe to have come from Central Asia, only about millennium ago. But culturally and genetically they are very different from the people that live in these regions now.
Maybe you should also read the links you quote. This is. As I did. Referring to the language mainly and not to nowadays behavior or culture. Plus you were addressing EE countries which in majority are not Roman / Latin.
"The term "Latin" is used in reference to European people whose cultures are particularly Roman-derived, generally including the use of Romance languages. Strong Roman legal and cultural traditions characterize these nations. Latin Europe is a major subdivision of Europe, along with Germanic-speaking Europe and Slavic Europe."1. I think we comprehend english differently. It says straight out, "people whose cultures are Roman-derived" and explicitly lists Romanian people. It goes on to explain the historical relationship of Rome to their conquered lands, including present day Romania. Cut and dry from my POV.
2. Either way, regarding modern times, language is a pretty major part of culture. It directly influences cultures and the way people think.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/07/yes-language-does-shape-culture/340451
https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/sociology-and-social-reform/sociology-general-terms-and-concepts/theory
Even in modern nations, their languages reflect their stereotyped national identities. From the highly structured but elegant Japanese, the rule oriented German, laid back and loose American English, the intricate but chaotic Chinese dialects, and of course the passionate Latin romance languages.
For further supporting evidence, there was even a phenomenon when Romanians became obsessed with Latin American soap operas because they felt a strong connection to them as they tried to obtain a unique identity after the fall of communism.
https://www.calvertjournal.com/opinion/show/4322/romania-latin-american-soaps-pepe-90s
3. You addressed EE but the reality is that EE in FKKs mean 80-90% Romanian. That is barely relevant to the original point of this conversation.
But culturally and genetically they are very different from the people that live in these regions now.Indeed, the small population of szekely hungarians in transylvania has retained more central siberian dna than hungarian hungarians who are almost completely mixed with neighbouring slavic populations due to intermarriges. The argument is that the szekely live in a very rugged area with hills around them, while Hungary is stretched out on an open plain. So indeed, you are right here. Also serbs south of the novi sad region in the north blame the ottomans for why they are shorter in height than novi sad serbs or croatians. They say the ottoman soldiers had their way with serb women. However, Romania was never a ottoman state. It was just a vassall, so no ottoman DNA there. But some influence probably to a lesser extent.
Personally I consider the ottomans to have done a good job in Bulgaria and serbia if they are to blame for the shorter height. But that is just me, LOL.
Haha. SM or TD or whatever. Why the need for 2 avatars? (My 2 cents I like Samson better). Anyway, your words are there, in all their glory just 2 pages ago. You might think blaming others (for pointing that you keep walking back your own words) makes you an alpha male, but in the real world we think that is silly and sad.
I don't cheat girls out of paying what's rightfully theirs. That's just me. And I have no illusion that this is strictly a commercial transaction. But if you want to believe all the BS a girls fakes in the club, no one will stop you.Failing to see the point of the original post makes this "rebuttal" just useless trolling, just taking away from then conversation at hand.
Cheat girls? LOL, they are autonomous people who make their own decisions. Or perhaps that comment just reflects a mindset that WGs are only just that, WGs and nothing more.
We mongers choose the path where we are at the privileged state of born to fuck, and FKK girls are in state or phase of their life of boron to be fucked.
So let fuck them hardcore and dump their ass to sorry ass husband.
We monger fucks, FKK girls get fucked and fucked LOL.
There is nothing more to it, there is nothing less to it, that is FKK culture where we pro mongers fuck many different cultures in many different ways LOL.
However, I always wonder what happen to these girls we fuck in FKK once they retire from FKK? They just go back to normal lives and convince some sorry ass guys that they were angels working in hospitality industry in Germany? LOL If so, scary world we men live in ain't it.
It is like buying Honda NSX with 200 thousand km but with Ferrari sign on it with rounded up meter of back to 500 km and told it is La Ferrari and you pay 1.5 million us dollars for it without knowing the truth LOL.
We ride these FKK girls while they were still in early 20's and while they were less km and we know these girls are Honda nsx and not la Ferrari even they claim to be Italian LOL.
Samson Monger
04-07-18, 03:28
No denying at all that it does happen. Just denying that the fear of falling in love with a client is the reason for not kissing.To be clear, I just meant attraction rather than love.
Also serbs south of the novi sad region in the north blame the ottomans for why they are shorter in height than novi sad serbs or croatians. They say the ottoman soldiers had their way with serb women. However, Romania was never a ottoman state. It was just a vassall, so no ottoman DNA there. But some influence probably to a lesser extent.Indeed, you are right. And the fact that Romania was just a vassall under the Ottomans (except a strip along the coast I may add which does include Constansa) was later the reason the Russians skipped Romania after beating the ottomans in the Russian ottoman war. So Romania got to keep their romance language while the Russians created a belt on the far side of Romania, trying to kick out the ottomans from Europe. That is why we find short Russian looking girls in Bulgaria, Macedonia and Serbia. Not a bad mix I might add. And interestingly many Bulgarians due to the northern Russian past have fairer skin than most Romanians who came from further south (Italy). One example would be Laura at Oase, or Vicky at Sixsense. Definite Russian looks just with shorter height.
Personally I also find the Moldavian mix of Russian and romance to be quite interesting. Russians are known for kissing and cuddling, while Latinos are known for passion and emotions.
To be clear, I just meant attraction rather than love.Indeed, and I might add:
https://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/dating-issues/the-science-behind-a-first-kiss/
Oxytocin: the hormone of attraction, but also of love.
To be clear, I just meant attraction rather than love.In FKK, money will get you all the attention you want from girls, nothing else.
Indeed, the small population of szekely hungarians in transylvania has retained more central siberian dna than hungarian hungarians who are almost completely mixed with neighbouring slavic populations due to intermarriges. The argument is that the szekely live in a very rugged area with hills around them, while Hungary is stretched out on an open plain. So indeed, you are right here. Also serbs south of the novi sad region in the north blame the ottomans for why they are shorter in height than novi sad serbs or croatians. They say the ottoman soldiers had their way with serb women. However, Romania was never a ottoman state. It was just a vassall, so no ottoman DNA there. But some influence probably to a lesser extent.
Personally I consider the ottomans to have done a good job in Bulgaria and serbia if they are to blame for the shorter height. But that is just me, LOL.Interesting that Evolution presents itself so prominently and yet so many people deny it as a possibility. I read somewhere in the past that the two modern European countries with the least linguistic similarities to their neighboring countries were Finland and Hungary. This article also hinted at possible linguistic relationships between these two countries and some easter Adian countries. It's always nice to have the opportunity to view the superior offspring resulting from mixing cultures and DNA. The result from the migration of petite working girls from far off lands may be a recognizable decrease in height is notoriously tall countries like The Netherlands.
Member #4585
04-07-18, 11:13
Correct. I would add that in many cases their boyfriends don't allow the WGs to kiss (and make anal sex) as the condition to allow them to work as the WGs, because their boyfriends want to feel they are special and unique to the WGs and can get kiss and anal sex with the WGs which nobody else can get.Anal sex feel good. Nice and tight and warm.
Rogue Nation
04-07-18, 11:32
To be clear, I just meant attraction rather than love.What's wrong with attraction?
....but romantic attraction from the girl's side happens. It probably happens every day in some club in Germany.Indeed plenty of working girls over 30 looking for a serious relationship to provide them with a soft landing in life. Girls past their prime, feeling they will hit the wall soon. Much less common with younger girls.
Indeed plenty of working girls over 30 looking for a serious relationship to provide them with a soft landing in life. Girls past their prime, feeling they will hit the wall soon. Much less common with younger girls.I get this from my younger university friends who are girl recently, they are all about 30 now, I never wonder why they suddenly contact me after so many years because I kind of knew why LOL.
These girls never figured out that I am already married with my best wife in the world called German FKK LOL I got so many German wives, Romanian wives among other wives from all over Europe and apparently there are going to be even more wives coming to fuck me LOL My marriage to FKK is secret marriage, but I am loyal to my wife German FKK LOL.
Once you pop in German FKK, you cannot stop LOL.
Rogue Nation
04-07-18, 13:12
Indeed plenty of working girls over 30 looking for a serious relationship to provide them with a soft landing in life. Girls past their prime, feeling they will hit the wall soon. Much less common with younger girls.That's not "romantic attraction". That's attracted by money and a safe future.
Rogue Nation
04-07-18, 13:12
1. I think we comprehend english differently. It says straight out, "people whose cultures are Roman-derived" and explicitly lists Romanian people. It goes on to explain the historical relationship of Rome to their conquered lands, including present day Romania. Cut and dry from my POV.
From the highly structured but elegant Japanese, the rule oriented German, laid back and loose American English, the intricate but chaotic Chinese dialects, and of course the passionate Latin romance languages.Americans are laid back and loose because of their language? It's a huge country, characteristics / cultures in New York are very different from Texas or Southern California. So much for language determining behavior.
So seems like that are most people just don't understand culture then. As an American, I can tell yoh that Romanians behave very similar to Latinos from South and Central America, more similar than to Italians.Because you are American you are the one to judge if Romanians behave similar to Latinas from South / Central America? How many Romanian girls have you met and got to know? Not "fuck&go", but getting to know them personally, their life, culture, behavior?
Prostitution in Germany and Netherlands was decriminalized and / or tolerated before 2002, even during Fascism. What happened is they imposed regulations. There are people who want to adapt the Swedish model, but they are a small minority. Prostitution is not a high priority topic anyways in most European countries IIRC. Denmark thought about adapting the Swedish model but went against it 6 years ago after coming to conclusion that it will not eradicate prostitution and protect sex works from harm. Same in the UK. In fact the UK favors decriminalizing prostitution.What is Swedish models? I see so many swede guys coming to German FKK, no tuting in Sweden or?
HungryStud101
04-07-18, 13:49
Indeed plenty of working girls over 30 looking for a serious relationship to provide them with a soft landing in life. Girls past their prime, feeling they will hit the wall soon. Much less common with younger girls.Yes, one of the girls I met at Sharks. One of my favorites of the trip. She had just moved over from another club. We started talking about it. She said she was starting to get worried. Time moves quickly and she is still in the same place. She said she would like to have a family.
For us it's a hobby.
Samson Monger
04-07-18, 17:00
Better to list character traits, behaviors, or habits, where you see similarities or provide examples. Behavior can also be attributed to age or economic background, or life experiences, like being a migrant population.Fair enough. Europeans nations living near the warm waters of the Mediterranean and Black Seas share a relaxed attitude that their northern and inland neighbors do not. Admintingly, the Balkans countries are not considered Latin but the Greek share cultural similarities to traditional Latin countries. Stereotyping, but attitudes on timekeeping and fiery women are parts of these cultures. Also admittingly, many other traits, often negative connotation, that I am thinking of are shared by cultures from less affluent backgrounds.
But we digress, the point of the original comment, pages ago, is that some posters of more modest backgrounds could better relate to 20 something year old Romanians than a 50 year old German guy or nerdy American dudes who've never spent more than a 10 minute drive through an American inner city.
Culture can also mean food, music, art. Romania has fallen aunder different spheres of influence: Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, Russian. That makes it unique from Italy, Spain, Portugal, and France.
Linguistically, Romanian is without a doubt Latin. They are geographically separated from the other Latin languages due to invasions from the Slavic tribes following disintegration of Byzantine Empire. Linguistics just suggest a common lineage at one time. The language of modern-day Turks and Hungarian is believe to have come from Central Asia, only about millennium ago. But culturally and genetically they are very different from the people that live in these regions now.No doubt that Romania is different than other European Latin countries due to geographic separation. Wikipedia article for "Latin People" and links for arguments supporting language's pivotal role in the development of culture have been presented several posts below.
Smoke Light
04-07-18, 17:08
Yes, one of the girls I met at Sharks. One of my favorites of the trip. She had just moved over from another club. We started talking about it. She said she was starting to get worried. Time moves quickly and she is still in the same place. She said she would like to have a family.
For us it's a hobby.Same experiences with 30+ yr old WGs, which often are best service providers. When chatting with them in the room, it may be best to stay clear of any topics which may trigger negative emotions in girl's mind. The worst experience I once had was after three 1 HR sessions over few days with a girl I take her to the room again and instead of normal session she immediately breaks down to tears and talks about all sorts of problems she had with her loverboy last night. I stayed an hour with her just talking, managed CIM at the end, but we both agreed before leaving the room on E50 price tag for such session. We continue to be friends, but I tend to limit my sessions with her to 1 time per week on a 2-week trip.
Americans are laid back and loose because of their language? It's a huge country, characteristics / cultures in New York are very different from Texas or Southern California. So much for language determining behavior.Way to pick parts of the post and not address the main argument. No logical retort for the main argument I see. The American laid back stereotype is not simply because of the language, rather language plays a major role in development of thought process.
As for this distraction, the NY stereotype that you are referring to represents New York CITY. One of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world full of first, second, and third generation immigrants who speak a combine dozens of languages. That is very different from the rest of the State of New York and the rest of the United States. So yes, your argument picks one stereotype representing some people of one city in a country of 320 million.
Because you are American you are the one to judge if Romanians behave similar to Latinas from South / Central America? How many Romanian girls have you met and got to know? Not "fuck&go", but getting to know them personally, their life, culture, behavior?Dozens. My previous Romanian girlfriend from Iasi, My cousin's wife and in-laws, 3 non mongering visits to Romania, Romanian friends in grad school, and the dozens of Romanian nurses that I have worked with in American hospitals.
Good enough for you?
I would add that in many cases their boyfriends don't allow the WGs to make anal sex as the condition to allow them to work as the WGs, because their boyfriends want to feel they are special and unique to the WGs and can get anal sex with the WGs which nobody else can get.Well, there sure are a lot of cheating tutes then hahaha!
Member #4581
04-07-18, 19:28
We are on quite a wild goose chase here. Trying to somehow persuade mongers that girls are "attracted" to <insert whatever characteristic that you think describes you best>. So, first it was muscular 35 year olds shacking up in cars which implies they are manning up. Then the theory morphed into "girls are attracted to alpha males because they were school yard bullies in the past". Then it was linguistic distance or proximity thereof. Now it is middle class upbringing. Give it a couple of more days, we will cover every pop psych theory lifted from C-grade men's magazines.
Try this. Euros. Flash them in front of WGs and tell me what she won't do that she might for one of the romantic lover boys above.
Try this. Euros. Flash them in front of WGs and tell me what she won't do that she might for one of the romantic lover boys above.But that is also a theory. Can love be bought? Indeed it can, it is called prostitution. The reason money was created in the first place. I already coverted this.
What is Swedish models? I see so many swede guys coming to German FKK, no tuting in Sweden or?Anything but a supermodel. LOL.
Try this. Euros. Flash them in front of WGs and tell me what she won't do that she might for one of the romantic lover boys above.For many girls, BBFS.
Member #4585
04-07-18, 21:12
1. Just poking fun, no worries.
2. I'm sure everyone else here will be happy tonhear about my pooping habits, LOL. Being regular helps. I'm a post morning coffee pooper. But making sure you're empty before leaving the club is probably not a bad idea. Anyway, it's really only 8-9 hours per day not being in the club, one can pass enough gas to keep from implosion. Worst case scenario, drive to a petrol station.Thank you.
I am a first thing I wake up type of guy so I need to be close to facilities.
I was thinking a McDonald's as well as a gas station or doing it in the woods like 🐻 bear. Bring some wet wipes.
In the end hotel or your downtown Frankfurt apartment works best.
Member #4585
04-07-18, 21:13
For many girls, BBFS.A regular German guest offers 500 bucks to new girls for BBFS.
Usual price is 100 bucks extra.
For some love can be bought.
Samson Monger
04-07-18, 21:19
What's wrong with attraction?Attraction = Feelings for many girls. But most don't want feelings attached to the job.
For some love can be bought.For some interpretations of love, true.
A regular German guest offers 500 bucks to new girls for BBFS.
Usual price is 100 bucks extra.
For some love can be bought.BBFS is 100 euro extra in FKK for some girls? This I did not know.
MyTwoInches
04-07-18, 22:09
Roughly a third of girls do bare back fuck. More than a half do anal. More than a few do bare back anal. For the right amount of money.
No I will not name names.
Rogue Nation
04-07-18, 22:47
Dozens. My previous Romanian girlfriend from Iasi, My cousin's wife and in-laws, 3 non mongering visits to Romania, Romanian friends in grad school, and the dozens of Romanian nurses that I have worked with in American hospitals.
Good enough for you?Good enough? As o was quoting SD and not you and so obviously referring to his and not your statement. No.
Member #4581
04-07-18, 22:59
For many girls, BBFS.BBFS- not my game.
A friend said of one WG "she is just a [Deleted by Admin]". I asked "what's the difference between a who $re and a [Deleted by Admin]? His reply "A [Deleted by Admin] fucks everyone in the room; a [Deleted by Admin] fucks everyone in the room except you".
I will let you decide whether these WGs giving special somethings to their romantic lover boys are [Deleted by Admin] or [Deleted by Admin].
Jnpr30,
Basing a definition on what some friend thinks may not always be smart.
I liked this one better:
[Deleted by Admin]: A **** with good business sense and financial responsibility.
[Deleted by Admin]: Originally used to describe women;.
Now a days literally can be said to anyone. Anytime. Anyplace for any reason.
"wutup [Deleted by Admin]!
"you guys are [Deleted by Admin]!
"[Deleted by Admin]!
Alternatively:
Beautiful.
Individual.
That.
Causes.
Hardons.
Oh, and you might then ask, what is a [Deleted by Admin]?
Answer: a woman with the morals of a man.
Hey, what's wrong with our morals? LOL!
I read somewhere in the past that the two modern European countries with the least linguistic similarities to their neighboring countries were Finland and Hungary. This article also hinted at possible linguistic relationships between these two countries and some easter Adian countries. It's always nice to have the opportunity to view the superior offspring resulting from mixing cultures and DNA.
Hungary was founded in the 9th century by the Magyars whose ancestral homeland was near the Ural mountains. Apparently, the Magyars were pushed west by nomads twice, before they finally settled at their third home, present day-Hungary. There the Magyars conquered the local population, who spoke some form of Romanian. So you have mixing happening in multiple locations. Hungarian language's closest relative is Mansi, and it is spoken by an Asiatic-looking people 2500 miles to the northeast. http://www.languagesoftheworld.info/language-families/on-magyar-migration.html.
The result from the migration of petite working girls from far off lands may be a recognizable decrease in height is notoriously tall countries like The Netherlands.
The Romanian WGs have conquered their taller German counterparts rather easily!
According to this article, a century ago, the Dutch were among the shortest people in Europe. Also mentions that the height of Northern Europeans has fluctuated. Around the time of Charlemagne they were quite tall. Then 1000 years in the 1700's, they shrunk, only averaging "5 feet tall 100 pounds". Now of course they are among the tallest in the world. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/04/05/the-height-gap.
Samson Monger
04-08-18, 04:00
Good enough? As o was quoting SD and not you and so obviously referring to his and not your statement. No.How about now Bub?
"Dozens. My previous Romanian girlfriend from Iasi, My cousin's wife and in-laws, 3 non mongering visits to Romania, Romanian friends in grad school, and the dozens of Romanian nurses that I have worked with in American hospitals.
Good enough for you?
I see that the original discussion has been conveniently ignored. Please address at your convenience.
BBFS- not my game.
A friend said of one WG "she is just aJust because it's not your game doesn't mean it's not a valid fact.
The point is that attraction has a role to play in determining what services are provided at certain rates if any charge at all. If a WG is attracted to you, some services are delivered without charge and if she is not, some services are not offerred at any price.
Why else would a WG in the heat of a good session allow one to go AO without charging if it not be for attraction.
Roughly a third of girls do bare back fuck. The ratio of top tier girls doing bareback I'the imagine is lower. But top tier is a pretty subjective comment I guess.
Roughly a third of girls do bare back fuck. More than a half do anal. More than a few do bare back anal. For the right amount of money.
No I will not name names.
A regular German guest offers 500 bucks to new girls for BBFS.
Usual price is 100 bucks extra.
For some love can be bought.No idea why those mongers enjoyed BBFS.
It seems that they never know how HIV / AIDS or other STD would cause catastrophes to themselves.
If a girl hints at me she would provide BBFS, I would rebuffed her immediately and forever.
When we talk about money for sex offered by WGs, we have to inconveniently say the specific amount (like 100 euro or 200 euro or so on). Just saying the word "money" is meaningless because, if you pay one billion US dollars for one-hour sex, Hillary Clinton will probably suck your dick, but who pays one billion dollars for one-hour sex.
But we can use the word money here: Money can't buy love, even for a WG's love, because love is a chemical thing which is not triggered by materials. Sometimes money helps as a catalyst, but it is never a source of love.
No idea why those mongers enjoyed BBFS.
It seems that they never know how HIV / AIDS or other STD would cause catastrophes to themselves.
If a girl hints at me she would provide BBFS, I would rebuffed her immediately and forever.It's a big risk but if you're determined to experience the best sex possible, it will inevitably lead there. You can have the greatest sex with the most beautiful girl who provides top notch service, but doing the same without a condom will feel even better.
Whether the risk is worth it, well that's up to each monger to decide. If she offers and I don't know her, I'the probably decline. But if she is a regular and if the relationship naturally leads to that and she allows for it without charge, I'll partake.
Citizen Kane
04-08-18, 08:24
if you pay one billion US dollars for one-hour sex, Hillary Clinton will probably suck your dick You'd probably stand a better chance with Bill.
Member #4585
04-08-18, 08:37
No idea why those mongers enjoyed BBFS.
It seems that they never know how HIV / AIDS or other STD would cause catastrophes to themselves.
If a girl hints at me she would provide BBFS, I would rebuffed her immediately and forever.I am sorry UncleOx that if you apply your strict principle to your FKK counterparts that your short list of choices become incredibly short. BBFS and BB anal is rife. Just search on the Sharks thread for some names of those who do it.
Someone mentioned the small girl Estephania at Sharks performs BB anal recently. Estephania does not work at Sharks anymore though. She was seen at Oase then went to a club further up the A5 free way.
Member #4585
04-08-18, 08:39
BBFS is 100 euro extra in FKK for some girls? This I did not know.You do now. 🤗🤗🤗
Are you missing out Ho?😮😮😮
Don't knock it until you have tried it.😊😊😊
Price negotiable. It has been discussed before what the tariff is before. Some have the pricing much lower than 100 bucks but this seems to be the max end of the scale so always be delighted to get lower if you think 100 bucks.
Member #4585
04-08-18, 08:52
The ratio of top tier girls doing bareback I'the imagine is lower. But top tier is a pretty subjective comment I guess.My mantra is any loving is good loving.
Does not matter if she is top shelf or lower tier shelf. If the love is there and it's going for gratis then fill your boots. That is why so many here go to the AO clubs even the French poet per his reports.
Don't knock it until you have tried it. 😉😉😉
Member #4585
04-08-18, 09:01
Why else would a WG in the heat of a good session allow one to go AO without charging if it not be for attraction.Maybe she did not realise. Like in doggie position with the girl facing away the guy pulls the condom off and pushes his cock back inside of her bare back like Ottomans are reputed to do.
Many a working girl reassures customers that they don't feel the difference with bareback or using a condom when they say to the customer to wear a Johnny. So why don't dispense with the Johnny if it does not feel any different.
I can tell you the girls say that when a customer pushes it in bare back unannounced that the customer gets pilloried.
To be sure, I am not speaking from experience on shoving my cock in unannounced as mentioned before getting hosed by everyone here.
Member #4585
04-08-18, 09:04
BBFS- not my game.
A friend said of one WG "she is just a . I asked "what's the difference between a who $re and a? His reply "Jnpr30,
Good after dinner anecdote. 💪128170;128170;.
Rogue Nation
04-08-18, 09:30
How about now Bub?Interesting to see that despite that experience you still stick to your opinion.
Maybe she did not realise. Like in doggie position with the girl facing away the guy pulls the condom off and pushes his cock back inside of her bare back like Ottomans are reputed to do.
Well that would mean a bit more deception in the end to hide this fact or face the wrath of an angry working girl with whom you've just committed the ultimate mongering sin.
I'm no saint but no, I would never do that.
Member #4585
04-08-18, 12:47
Roughly a third of girls do bare back fuck. More than a half do anal. More than a few do bare back anal. For the right amount of money.
No I will not name names.With statistics that one third of tutes will AO (BBFS) and 100% would AO with their BFs and / or pimps and half would do AO then there is no need to name names.
Based on your proposition Pretty much any guy can go into a FKK and be assured of finding a tute that will AO for no money extra or for a little extra bucks.
Bare back anal feel real good.
How about now Bub?Speaking of "Bub", whatever happened to Hessen Bub?
Rogue Nation
04-08-18, 13:14
Roughly a third of girls do bare back fuck. More than a half do anal. More than a few do bare back anal. For the right amount of money.
No I will not name names.I seriously doubt that. Percentage is a lot lower. Might depend on how much you're willing to pay for it. From 500€ extra for BBFS some girls will start thinking about it. Hard to say as I never offered a girl extra money for BBFS. I know guys who do and have a faint idea of their success rates.
You do now. 🤗🤗🤗
Are you missing out Ho?😮😮😮
Don't knock it until you have tried it.😊😊😊
Price negotiable. It has been discussed before what the tariff is before. Some have the pricing much lower than 100 bucks but this seems to be the max end of the scale so always be delighted to get lower if you think 100 bucks.I never asked or try this one for some reason in German FKK. Why? I do not know. I do that back home, but never asked in German FKK.
Is it fear of STD? But I never asked, I may try to ask some girls I feel it is rather safe. Well I know I know the risk of std is always there.
I want to avoid Romanians though as they may have something from child vaccine injections because poor country's hospital tend to share needles etc.
So I try asking to German or Hungarian girls, but I think it get harder.
Rogue Nation
04-08-18, 13:47
With statistics that one third of tutes will AO (BBFS) and 100% would AO with their BFs and / or pimps and half would do AO then there is no need to name names.What statistics?
When we talk about money for sex offered by WGs, we have to inconveniently say the specific amount (like 100 euro or 200 euro or so on). Just saying the word "money" is meaningless because, if you pay one billion US dollars for one-hour sex, Hillary Clinton will probably suck your dick, but who pays one billion dollars for one-hour sex.
But we can use the word money here: Money can't buy love, even for a WG's love, because love is a chemical thing which is not triggered by materials. Sometimes money helps as a catalyst, but it is never a source of love.I agree worth most (again), but you contradict yourself. The word 'to buy' is nothing but a word that implies another word: 'a catalyst'.
Someone mentioned the small girl Estephania at Sharks performs BB anal recently. Estephania does not work at Sharks anymore though. She was seen at Oase then went to a club further up the A5 free way.As far as I read it, that was not a hint at her doing BB anal. But anyway. Not important (I might have read the wrong comment. I did meet her at Oase last fall. She tried it for one week before returning to Sharks. Sharks just made her more money. When I saw her back at Sharks she had started upselling. My best guess is that she will keep changing clubs for awhile. I doubt World will be her final stop with those income expectations. She is better of improving service and reducing the upselling if money is what she is looking into. And I can see her making tons of money. Perhaps same level as Lucy at Aca. She has the looks. Just not quite the attitude yet. A little too business heavy, which puts guys of. And I guess maybe many locals avoid that sentiment. Totally opposite of someone like Lucy or even Mandy.
Upselling girls probably add a temporary boost to their income. Maybe lasting a month or so. But afterwards they probably see a two-fold dip in their income as many guys won't repeat. And such a reputation can take long to rectify.
You do now. 🤗🤗🤗
Are you missing out Ho?😮😮😮
Don't knock it until you have tried it.😊😊😊
Price negotiable. It has been discussed before what the tariff is before. Some have the pricing much lower than 100 bucks but this seems to be the max end of the scale so always be delighted to get lower if you think 100 bucks.The pro girls tease it also. But only the smart ones. You know the pussy grind on cock without insertion ASAP you lay down on the bed. Too bad not more girls use this strategy. It is the best warm up there is. Great hint also of something more too.
MyTwoInches
04-08-18, 15:31
With statistics that one third of tutes will AO (BBFS) and 100% would AO with their BFs and / or pimps and half would do AO then there is no need to name names.
Based on your proposition Pretty much any guy can go into a FKK and be assured of finding a tute that will AO for no money extra or for a little extra bucks.
Bare back anal feel real good."For the right amount of money".
Perhaps I should add "for the right guy".
MyTwoInches
04-08-18, 15:35
No idea why those mongers enjoyed BBFS.
It seems that they never know how HIV / AIDS or other STD would cause catastrophes to themselves.
If a girl hints at me she would provide BBFS, I would rebuffed her immediately and forever.Not a good idea to be ragging on the sex preferences of other mongers.
Some people might say BBBJ leads to STDs too. Would you shun them? Don't bother with stats and facts and medical links to show BBBJ is safe but BBFS is not. This is about a risk any specific monger is willing to take. Not for other mongers to judge.
Maybe she did not realise. Like in doggie position with the girl facing away the guy pulls the condom off and pushes his cock back inside of her bare back like Ottomans are reputed to do.
Many a working girl reassures customers that they don't feel the difference with bareback or using a condom when they say to the customer to wear a Johnny. So why don't dispense with the Johnny if it does not feel any different.
I can tell you the girls say that when a customer pushes it in bare back unannounced that the customer gets pilloried.
To be sure, I am not speaking from experience on shoving my cock in unannounced as mentioned before getting hosed by everyone here.One should never do BBFS unless the girl knows this. That is exactly why the law was passed. If the girl catches you and take you to the desk, you could be subject to that massive fine. You have essentially committed [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123). Don't think he said / she said will save you. At a minimum you will be blacklisted. Management will side with the girl to protect their business and there is no reason a girl would lie.
Member #4581
04-08-18, 19:16
Jnpr30,
Good after dinner anecdote. 💪128170;128170;.Thanks Bitumen.
You will like this:
Which one is better oral or anal sex?
Anal of course. Oral sex just makes your whole day but anal makes the hole weak 🙂
Oral sex just makes your day but anal makes the hole weak 🙂.Not bad, but given how many there are on this forum that likes it in reverse, it might have started out something like this:
Oral sex just makes your day, but anal sex makes your hole weak.
Member #4585
04-08-18, 19:38
Thanks Bitumen.
You will like this:
Which one is better oral or anal sex?
Anal of course. Oral sex just makes your day but anal makes the hole weak 🙂.Well done. Anal done too much weakens the anal muscles so it becomes less tight over time.
As said anal is enjoyable for the man since it is tighter, warmer and more humiliating for the woman getting her asshole plundered by a pirate.
The girl is usually screaming, moaning deep and grabbing the pillow or the bed sheets or have her head buried in a pillow to muffle her cries.
Anal sex is more memorable. Also you don't make babies so it is all about pleasure for the man.
Smoke Light
04-08-18, 19:57
Well done. Anal done too much weakens the anal muscles so it becomes less tight over time.
As said anal is enjoyable for the man since it is tighter, warmer and more humiliating for the woman getting her asshole plundered by a pirate.
The girl is usually screaming, moaning deep and grabbing the pillow or the bed sheets or have her head buried in a pillow to muffle her cries.
Anal sex is more memorable. Also you don't make babies so it is all about pleasure for the man.Thank you, well said about good anal! The screaming, moaning and pillow grabbing instantly brings back my memories about Aisha, the librarian-looking girl with glasses from Living Room in summer 2016. A lifetime experience.
The general prevalence of HIV in Germany is about 0. 15%. Assume a WG gets 1200 room sessions annually, and if she is reluctant to or rarely offers BBFS (1%) then the probability for the girl to gets HIV infection in one year would be less than:
1 - (0.9985) **12 = 1.79%.
If she constantly offers BBFS (10%) in order to charge more money (100-300 E), then the chance for HIV infection in one year would be great than:
1 - (0.9985) **120 = 16.48%..
In two years the probability of HIV infection would be 30.25% if using this formula.
So I always avoid girls whom are some kind of regular BBFS providers.
I am sorry UncleOx that if you apply your strict principle to your FKK counterparts that your short list of choices become incredibly short. BBFS and BB anal is rife. Just search on the Sharks thread for some names of those who do it.
Someone mentioned the small girl Estephania at Sharks performs BB anal recently. Estephania does not work at Sharks anymore though. She was seen at Oase then went to a club further up the A5 free way.
Speaking of "Bub", whatever happened to Hessen Bub?I read somewhere that he changed his handling name, I guess girls found out who it is.
MyTwoInches
04-08-18, 22:49
I seriously doubt that. Percentage is a lot lower. Might depend on how much you're willing to pay for it. From 500 extra for BBFS some girls will start thinking about it. Hard to say as I never offered a girl extra money for BBFS. I know guys who do and have a faint idea of their success rates.You could doubt it, but doesn't mean your numbers are proven to be any better. "Seriously".
A girl just has to fuck one customer in the club bareback to be in that stat. Not every customer, but just one customer. No; boyfriends and pimps are not in that stat.
My numbers are based on my experience. If your numbers are at a lower level, it just means you had less success. I think the actual stats might be higher, because there are definitely girls who won't do me at the money I offered, but do other customers at whatever money they offered.
Samson Monger
04-09-18, 00:16
Interesting to see that despite that experience you still stick to your opinion.Why so interesting? Even pooled sources and Romanian people themselves agree with them being Latin people. Should I trust a German's opinion on Romanian cultural classification over Romanian people themselves?
I want to avoid Romanians though as they may have something from child vaccine injections because poor country's hospital tend to share needles etc..That's one of the most ludicrous statements that I've ever heard. Worse considering that a person who has enough world experience to travel across the globe made this comment. It's completely baseless that a 20 something year old person carries an infectious disease gained from contaminated vaccines given when they were children. It's not medically impossible but so unlikely that it would not have any statistical relevance.
I agree worth most (again), but you contradict yourself. The word 'to buy' is nothing but a word that implies another word: 'a catalyst'.It makes sense. A catalyst is not something that causes something. A catalyst is something that lowers the theshold that must be reached for a process to happen. The money lowers the theshold for love to occur. A guy no longer has to be successful, physically attractive, of similar age, and caring. Now he can just be rich, a little chubby, a little older, and not an asshole.
Neurosynth
04-09-18, 01:14
The general prevalence of HIV in Germany is about 0. 15%. Assume a WG gets 1200 room sessions annually, and if she is reluctant to or rarely offers BBFS (1%) then the probability for the girl to gets HIV infection in one year would be less than:
1 - (0.9985) **12 = 1.79%. That assumes that each exposure would immediately create an infection. That's not even close to true. The (vaginal male to female) transmission rate is about 0.08%.
So using your numbers, if a sex worker has 1200 customers (1200 sessions with a different customer each time) per year, and 0.15% of them are HIV infected, then that's 1200 * 0.0015 = 1.8 exposures per year.
And given a transmission rate of 0.08%, the probability of HIV infection is then 1.8 * 0.0008 = 0.144% chance of infection each year.
A more direct calculation can be done using this statistic: HIV infection is found in about 0.2% of female sex workers in Germany.
(https://ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/media/en/publications/Publications/dublin-declaration-sex-workers.pdf).
The female to male vaginal HIV transmission rate is about. 0.04%. So the probability of a man getting HIV from a single random encounter with a female German sex worker is:
0.002 * 0.0004 = 0.0000008 = 0.00008 %
Put another way, if you had BBFS with 1000 different female German sex workers, your chances of becoming HIV infected would be 0.08%.
To put that in perspective, the chances of flipping a coin and getting 10 heads in a row is more likely (it's more than 0.09%.)
Why so interesting? Even pooled sources and Romanian people themselves agree with them being Latin people. Should I trust a German's opinion on Romanian cultural classification over Romanian people themselves?As far as I know by experience, Romanian people agree that they are Latin origin, but they go further, Romanian people in FKK also seems to believe that they are Italian or Spanish LOL!
German people are rational people, so maybe German people will say Romanian people are Romanian people, so I think I will believe more German people for this matter than Romanian people who think they are Italian or Spanish LOL.
Member #4585
04-09-18, 01:52
Thank you, well said about good anal! The screaming, moaning and pillow grabbing instantly brings back my memories about Aisha, the librarian-looking girl with glasses from Living Room in summer 2016. A lifetime experience.Yeah. Nice experiences having your hard cock inside their assholes then coming inside their butt. Feels real good blasting a nut there in their black hole.
The general prevalence of HIV in Germany is about 0. 15%. Assume a WG gets 1200 room sessions annually, and if she is reluctant to or rarely offers BBFS (1%) then the probability for the girl to gets HIV infection in one year would be less than:
1 - (0.9985) **12 = 1.79%.
If she constantly offers BBFS (10%) in order to charge more money (100-300 E), then the chance for HIV infection in one year would be great than:
1 - (0.9985) **120 = 16.48%..
In two years the probability of HIV infection would be 30.25% if using this formula.
So I always avoid girls whom are some kind of regular BBFS providers.Then AO club must have been disaster then.
Well anal BBFS is dangerous, normal intercourse has much less risk, but risk is there yes.
FKK line up got its up and down, and also its got up and down and vanishing of some nationality.
I miss Czech girls a lot actually, young beautiful blonde or brunette one like Marketa in Artemis who is long gone.
Back in early 2010's, I found few young Czech stunners, but now they are rare now.
I think Hungarian girls are to follow to be vanished. And polish girls are almost vanished already. Oh I loved polish blonde girls.
Surprisingly, I kind of think German girls are quite secure, I think there could be more of certain type of hybrid Germans walking in especially second generation hybrid immigrant girls will be more as time advance as they live right in the country where FKK is and easy to access to this job since it is right there.
Another sure secure ones are Romanians and Bulgarians, they will always be meats provider to German FKK LOL.
I wait for Ukraine to join eu or at least get some kind of work visa with eu, so I may get to see Ukrainian in German FKK then, if that happen, I am going to have to be FKK client immigrants to Germany LOL.
A few veterans I've known throughout the years are BBFS afficionados. 300 for 3 hours, no extra is their offer at mainstream club. I suspect they develop a sixth sense for who to proposition (not always a verbal proposition). But BBFS is an in-demand service, so you have to suspect lots of mongers ask. And once a WG has done it, I suspect that she will be open to it in the future. A few names were revealed to me, but it is only after they had a falling out with the WG. Or that WG left the business. While it was ongoing, they didn't want to jeopardize it by naming her.
One prominent poster years back used to get AO offers from a few of the WGs he long-roomed with. He speculated that the WGs saw it as a challenge to get him to pop.
Well put Neurosynth, we can finally agree on something. Also, no sex worker in German FKKs probably have sex with 1200 different guys in one year. The top girls make so many repeat rooms that even if they do 2000 rooms a year, which is extremely high and perhaps 5 in average per day, 75% of these are probably repeats. I have talked to a few FKK girls about how many different guys they have had sex with, and 3-400 different guys a year is more the norm. Of course some have more, but then the repeats are probably higher too. If they work 200-250 days a year. The second year will also have tons of repeats, so you cannot add the numbers. Perhaps add the second year on a 1.5-1.6 multiplier. Also notice the fairly low difference between the HIV rate for sex workers (0.2%) and for among the general population 0.15% And perhaps also add in the increased rate of HIV among homosexual men. Which also include gay male prostitutes.
If I catch HIV from an FKK girl after natures will, I am going to run straight over to a store and deliver a lotto coupon. Although I personally don't normally go for the BBFS.
Member #4585
04-09-18, 05:08
"For the right amount of money".
Perhaps I should add "for the right guy".Now that is changing the goal posts after the scoring goal has been made.
Member #4585
04-09-18, 05:11
What statistics?You need to keep up with the comprehension. Keep reading and trying to understand.
This is the proposition statistic under discussion.
Roughly a third of girls do bare back fuck. More than a half do anal. More than a few do bare back anal. For the right amount of money.
No I will not name names.
Member #4585
04-09-18, 05:15
I never asked or try this one for some reason in German FKK. Why? I do not know. I do that back home, but never asked in German FKK.
Is it fear of STD? But I never asked, I may try to ask some girls I feel it is rather safe. Well I know I know the risk of std is always there.
I want to avoid Romanians though as they may have something from child vaccine injections because poor country's hospital tend to share needles etc.
So I try asking to German or Hungarian girls, but I think it get harder.Now you are in the know Ho. Been enlightened that you were not getting the full menu of what you thought was porno services. Most porno is BB.
I will say it again. Don't knock it until you have tried it.
BigBuddy69
04-09-18, 06:06
You're right, having some green smelly pus coming out of your dick is so porno.
I read somewhere that he changed his handling name, I guess girls found out who it is.On different forums, but now only on ISG to improve my English, even being known as white wolf by many girls, I won't change my name because I'm proud of who I am, with my manners I have the prettiest girls anywhere I go and after we had room, they want to repeat. When I'm away for a while, they send me: When I will come back? So no need to hide behind own shadow. When I caress them, they take my hands and caress them. Who caress girls face, change sometimes their hair, their make up, advice them for their nails and they do it, proud on next time. No, don t touch my make up answered. They also seem to like to caress and kiss my face. When you found the woman part, like when you really make them cum, not fake porn show, they became different, you are not anymore only for money, they ask you give them again, they don't want you go with other girls to do the same with others. Then you can play sex like at home, when some prefer CIM or anal but then only money clients.
About those who always need to tell about others, without knowing them, always interesting to see with own eyes, like Dietzenbach casting, or some AO clubs in NRW, to understand why these girls, mainly Bulgarians, take so many risks for their health. Because they are poor, because they are pimped and driven there every morning, because most are not pretty enough to get 50 € business in normal clubs. Who can believe these girls prefer to work to be cum inside by old fats without condom for only 30 €, rather than at Globe for 140 , or even at big Sharks with no more selection for girls beauty, for 50.
But much more enjoyable to get with a beauty you choose, rather than with ugly girls, and when she could say she never wants to repeat with you, she seems to prefer and never ask for extra money for anything, they just take what you give them when they could ask for extra.
Manners pay like money. Some have to pay, some will get some services or even not available services, for free, just during fluent sex like at home, just for passion on first time and repeating the same, after, for free. Less expensive than in AO clubs and much prettier girls.
But always interesting to understand with own eyes. We don't all have same eyes and standards for what are attractive girls, I go for the prettiest and sexiest. Even they are usually busy, when they know me, they come to me.
No need to hide, no need to use different profiles like some.
Now you are in the know Ho. Been enlightened that you were not getting the full menu of what you thought was porno services. Most porno is BB.
I will say it again. Don't knock it until you have tried it.Hardknock life in FKK LOL.
I go nude this year LOL LOL!
I agree worth most (again), but you contradict yourself. The word 'to buy' is nothing but a word that implies another word: 'a catalyst'.Honestly I don't quite understand what you tried to say and your point is. I think most readers probably understand what I was trying to say there. But just in case any reader (like you) doesn't quite understand it, I briefly explain it again. We probably all learned from chemistry lessons in school, for example element A mixing with element B reacts to element C and catalyst D accelerates the process. So 1. This chemical reaction doesn't need catalyst D (it is money in our topic) whose only function is to accelerate the chemical process. 2. If without either element A or B, but with catalyst D, the chemical reaction won't happen and won't produce element C (in this topic it is love, element C = love in our topic) no matter how much catalyst D (money) you put in. This is my point.
I never asked or try this one for some reason in German FKK. Why? I do not know. I do that back home, but never asked in German FKK.
Is it fear of STD? But I never asked, I may try to ask some girls I feel it is rather safe. Well I know I know the risk of std is always there.
I want to avoid Romanians though as they may have something from child vaccine injections because poor country's hospital tend to share needles etc.
So I try asking to German or Hungarian girls, but I think it get harder.Didn't I see you post recently about your desires for the open borders and work visas that would allow Ukrainian women to join the ranks at the clubs in Germany yet here you state you avoid Romanians for fear of diseases they may have caught from childhood injections. Seems interesting you desire more women from a country in the top three of highest percentage of European countries with HIV and avoid those from a country in the bottom three. If you look for an excuse to avoid Romanians, pick a better statistic like avoiding petite, nimble ladies who still maintain flexibility resulting from years training to be a Womans Olympic Gymnastics Gold Medalist.
There are risks, I think largely increased by fellow mongers who travel to far off lands and participate in BBS activities. I recently read on several news sites that a British male returned from Asia and has been diagnosed with antibiotic resistant Super Gonorrhea.
TankTank123
04-09-18, 11:33
We probably all learned from chemistry lessons in school, for example element A mixing with element B reacts to element C and catalyst D accelerates the process. My chemistry teacher in school taught me that you cannot produce another Element C by mixing elements A and B. You get either a mixture if they do not react, or a compound if they do.
Although ancient believers in Alchemy do claim that it could be done.
In college however, my physics teacher taught me that you can produce element C by smashing element A onto element B in a collider, or through a nuclear reaction. But in both these reactions, catalytic elements are not used. Rather, in collisions, some form of energy could be a catalyst. While in a nuclear reaction the opposite of catalysts are needed where carbon rods are inserted to dampen the reaction.
To continue the analogy, when you A bangs the girl B physically, in the absence of a dampener (condom D), you produce a baby C.
Rogue Nation
04-09-18, 12:08
If your numbers are at a lower level, it just means you had less success. I think the actual stats might be higher, because there are definitely girls who won't do me at the money I offered, but do other customers at whatever money they offered.As I said, I never offered extra money for BBFS and I will never do.
My chemistry teacher in school taught me that you cannot produce another Element C by mixing elements A and B. Sorry. I should write substance C instead of element C (it has been long time since I left school LOL). But you understand what I meant in the context of this topic.
Honestly I don't quite understand what you tried to say and your point is. I think most readers probably understand what I was trying to say there. But just in case any reader (like you) doesn't quite understand it, I briefly explain it again. We probably all learned from chemistry lessons in school, for example element A mixing with element B reacts to element C and catalyst D accelerates the process. So 1. This chemical reaction doesn't need catalyst D (it is money in our topic) whose only function is to accelerate the chemical process. 2. If without either element A or B, but with catalyst D, the chemical reaction won't happen and won't produce element C (in this topic it is love, element C = love in our topic) no matter how much catalyst D (money) you put in. This is my point.I get this. Maybe I misread your last post, or wrote it a bit unclear. But I felt you got that one not 100% right in the last paragraph. Like you say, the idea of buying love has nothing to do with your source A or (B). It has all to do with the catalyst (D). Person A and (B) are the sourcematerials, and (C) is the money like you say. Love comes from interaction. And the interaction requires the proximity which you can buy. So you can buy (D) the love (C). I think we mainly agree, but there is a small nuance if you reread what you wrote in the last paragraph of your last post:
Money can't buy love, even for a WG's love, because love is a chemical thing which is not triggered by materials. Sometimes money helps as a catalyst, but it is never a source of love.This comment simply doesn't take into account oxytocin and other hormones we release when in company of each other. So the catalyst (D) is more than just randomly connected to (C). There is a strong link attached. And that is how you can buy it.
To continue the analogy, when you A bangs the girl B physically, in the absence of a dampener (condom D), you produce a baby C.But in this case, perhaps it is not all about a catalysmic element (money), but a cataclysmic one (your sperm). LOL!
Sperm is after all a value measured in DNA.
Samson Monger
04-09-18, 16:10
As far as I know by experience, Romanian people agree that they are Latin origin, but they go further, Romanian people in FKK also seems to believe that they are Italian or Spanish LOL!
German people are rational people, so maybe German people will say Romanian people are Romanian people, so I think I will believe more German people for this matter than Romanian people who think they are Italian or Spanish LOL.Fair enough but if a Romanian has Italian citizenship, she is for my consideration within her right to call herself Italian. If she actually does.
As far as being Latin, yes you are right. They say it themselves.
Samson Monger
04-09-18, 16:17
Sorry. I should write substance C instead of element C (it has been long time since I left school LOL). But you understand what I meant in the context of this topic.If we want to get technical. Catalyst lowers threshold energy, it does not have kinetic affects. As in, it does not speed it up; rather, it lowers energy that is needed to be put into the system. In our discussion, energy is just that, effort you need to put in in order to woo a girl.
On different forums, but now only on ISG to improve my English, even being known as white wolf by many girls, I won't change my name because I'm proud of who I am, with my manners I have the prettiest girls anywhere I go and after we had room, they want to repeat. When I'm away for a while, they send me: When I will come back? So no need to hide behind own shadow. When I caress them, they take my hands and caress them. Who caress girls face, change sometimes their hair, their make up, advice them for their nails and they do it, proud on next time. No, don t touch my make up answered. They also seem to like to caress and kiss my face. When you found the woman part, like when you really make them cum, not fake porn show, they became different, you are not anymore only for money, they ask you give them again, they don't want you go with other girls to do the same with others. Then you can play sex like at home, when some prefer CIM or anal but then only money clients..Post was about Hessen Bub, not Sirioja.
This comment simply doesn't take into account oxytocin and other hormones we release when in company of each other. So the catalyst D is more than just randomly connected to C. There is a strong link attached. And that is how you can buy it.This is your opinion. I think that most of readers understand my point (which, by the way, comes from my experience and observation) now whether they agree with or not, so I stop discussing this topic now.
Rogue Nation
04-09-18, 17:38
You need to keep up with the comprehension. Keep reading and trying to understand.
This is the proposition statistic under discussion.That was not statistics. That was some random guy giving his estimate anonymously on a sex forum. Statistics is "collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data.
I read somewhere that he changed his handling name, I guess girls found out who it is.Not exactly true at all. After I inquired, I heard from Hessen Bub directly. He explained what he's up to these days. Still fucking for sure LOL!
I miss Czech girls a lot actually, young beautiful blonde or brunette one like Marketa in Artemis who is long gone. Back in early 2010's, I found few young Czech stunners, but now they are rare now. I think Hungarian girls are to follow to be vanished. And polish girls are almost vanished already. Oh I loved polish blonde girls.I miss the beautiful, blonde Czech girls too. The first FKK girl I ever had sex with was gorgeous, blonde Gina at FKK Palace (pre-surgery hehehe). And I too enjoyed the delights of "mattress back" Marketa (everybody was fucking that) over at FKK Artemis. I took her blonde, Czech girl cornhole in one of those rooms located near the Kino. One of the biggest stars for The Cane in Spain was a Hungarian chick going by "Irena" working at Whiskeria Estark. Fucked her in the butt twice and spermed all over her willing and waiting lips. She loved it up her butt hole so much she told me she never wanted me to fuck her "cho cho", and to only do her in her Hungarian asshole. Am I dreaming or what? Oh, and the Polish girls! The Polish tutes! Maybe pound for pound my favorite tutes in all of Europe. Pretty with good attitudes and know how to enjoy sex! Yes, bring the Polish girls back! I still have to wank over one pretty, blonde one who I butt fucked at FKK Artemis years ago. Oh, was that TMI? Hahaha! Besides Brazilian girls, I also find Russians and Ukrainians to be outstanding anal sex providers. Top-notch! Yes sir!
Post was about Hessen Bub, not Sirioja.He is not the only one using different profiles on this forum.
I think too many guys enjoy more to tell about other guys, rather than being able to get pleasure in their mind from what they are able to get from girls.
Polyamorist
04-09-18, 18:51
My chemistry teacher in school taught me that you cannot produce another Element C by mixing elements A and B. You get either a mixture if they do not react, or a compound if they do.
Although ancient believers in Alchemy do claim that it could be done.
Hamdulillah TankTank! Al-kīmiyā, the art of extracting gold juice from ordinary metal, not so different from what we do with women! But it was only in Al-wakanda that this was ever achieved, producing the seemingly magical element of cyprenium in medieval times. Since then cyprenium has powered the whole society and ensured 100% fertility, but the hidden kingdom has been loathe to reveal such a powerful Mojo to the world at large. I myself have become addicted to it, as well as the daily sprayings of oxytocin by the King's Royal Air Force, and do not intend to wind my caravan 🐪 north until FKK-land has rolled back the regulations and returned to the golden era of Atlantis.
This is your opinion. I think that most of readers understand my point (which, by the way, comes from my experience and observation) now whether they agree with or not, so I stop discussing this topic now.Samson is trying to explain to you the same. It lowers the threshold. The correlation is many to one, not many to many. Like in a database.
MyTwoInches
04-09-18, 23:11
As I said, I never offered extra money for BBFS and I will never do.OK, I didn't ask for it, but thanks for volunteering such information. Quite irrelevant of course to the discussion at hand (which is, how many girls offer BBFS, not whether a random guy called Rogue Nation paid for it).
Here is a hint. If you personally ask 10 girls for BBFS, and one provides it to you, 10% is the minimum percent of girls who provides such service in that sample. Not the maximum. Among the 9 others, some might provide such service to other mongers, but not to you.
TankTank123
04-09-18, 23:32
I miss the beautiful, blonde Czech girls too. The first FKK girl I ever had sex with was gorgeous, blonde Gina at FKK Palace (pre-surgery hehehe). And I too enjoyed the delights of "mattress back" Marketa (everybody was fucking that) over at FKK Artemis. I took her blonde, Czech girl cornhole in one of those rooms located near the Kino. Hey, your history almost sounds like mine. The 3 1/2 Czechs I have had sessions with were all great.
My first Czech was also Gina in Palace in 2009 and went on with her till 2010. She was reasonably slim, very well-shaped and very pretty then (before severe deterioration in almost all respects in later years). Those were the days I frequented Palace, taking mainly Gina, Saskia, the Poles Clara and Ebeline, and the Thai Bee. No Romanians! (although I was disturbed frequently then by 'Egyptian' Angelina who kept trying to block me from those girls she knew were my usual targets. She still disturbs me at Sharks, like a plague that never goes away.)
My 2nd Czech was Marketta in Artemis in the period 2012 and 2013. Really slim and attractive, and fantastic service.
3rd Czech was Elizabeth in Oase whom I went the most with in 2013 and 2014 before she went to Globe as Adolphina. Really fun personality and fantastic sex also.
And finally the 1/2 Czech Raissa of World in 2015 and 2016. To me, the prettiest girl I have met in my whole FKK career, but I have only been able to bag her twice as she seems to have regulars who happen to book her for long sessions whenever I am at World. Still hoping she would be around at World this year.
Strangely I have not met any other Czechs. So, Czechs score 100% in my books so far.
UltraHappy
04-09-18, 23:56
You're right, having some green smelly pus coming out of your dick is so porno.Good point. Thank you for injecting the voice of reason into this so-called "discussion. " There is no need to glorify activities which expose our working girls to unnecessary risks or which force our working girls to have to take "breaks" during certain treatments, thereby depriving everyone else from enjoying their company for certain periods of time.
So, thank you BigBuddy69.
I think we all miss Marketa. Aksena kind of took over in her role at Artemis for me after Marketa left. But now also Bulgarian Aksena may be gone. They were kind of the same type of girl. Except Aksena didn't smoke. Marketa smoked a bit heavily the last time I saw her. Wonder what she is up to these days.
I don't know what is up with Angelina. She does the exact same thing with me, hitting my balls if I try to ignore her. But she gets it more nowadays that she is not my type. But she is still shittalking me to her friends behind my back. I don't know what she says, but her friends don't go with me. Too bad for them I guess. The Angelina influence won't make them much money if that's their tactics to trust in her.
I miss the beautiful, blonde Czech girls too. The first FKK girl I ever had sex with was gorgeous, blonde Gina at FKK Palace (pre-surgery hehehe). And I too enjoyed the delights of "mattress back" Marketa (everybody was fucking that) over at FKK Artemis. I took her blonde, Czech girl cornhole in one of those rooms located near the Kino. One of the biggest stars for The Cane in Spain was a Hungarian chick going by "Irena" working at Whiskeria Estark. Fucked her in the butt twice and spermed all over her willing and waiting lips. She loved it up her butt hole so much she told me she never wanted me to fuck her "cho cho", and to only do her in her Hungarian asshole. Am I dreaming or what? Oh, and the Polish girls! The Polish tutes! Maybe pound for pound my favorite tutes in all of Europe. Pretty with good attitudes and know how to enjoy sex! Yes, bring the Polish girls back! I still have to wank over one pretty, blonde one who I butt fucked at FKK Artemis years ago. Oh, was that TMI? Hahaha! Besides Brazilian girls, I also find Russians and Ukrainians to be outstanding anal sex providers. Top-notch! Yes sir!Like you once said Mr cane that you heard from old monger, as one stunner goes out, new stunners are coming into industry, it is bit like river flowing into ocean, new waters are constantly coming in replacing old ones as we move into future.
Also since hardware are already built there, registered legally in Germany known as FKK with promptly invested financially, they will always have to fill it with software, which is most important thing because we monger go to FKK to enjoy beautiful girls, so I wonder which regions of Europe the management side as well FKK supply trend will get the future girls?
Germany will be secure supplier as girls living in Germany has easier access to go into industry as it is right there at home ground.
As for future nations, any eastern European nations newly join EU or get some kind of visa exemption are possible future supplier to FKK line up.
Political trend is good for monger in future because many nations are leaving Europe so EU may try to attract more of eastern European nations to move more closer to EU and more Russia put pressure on Ukraine, more EU want to include Ukraine as EU sub member etc.
Whatta nice crazy rational world we live in at FKK LOL.
Neurosynth
04-10-18, 04:53
Then AO club must have been disaster then.
Well anal BBFS is dangerous, normal intercourse has much less risk, but risk is there yes.I don't think Mr Ho can see my posts. Maybe someone can point out that according to my calculations below, a man's chance of getting HIV from a vaginal session with a random German prostitute is 0.00008%.
Also given intercourse with a man who *IS HIV infected*, the transmission rate to women is 0.08% for vaginal intercourse, and 1.38% for anal.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/estimates/riskbehaviors.html
I don't think Mr Ho can see my posts. Maybe someone can point out that according to my calculations below, a man's chance of getting HIV from a vaginal session with a random German prostitute is 0. 00008%.
.....
That's all very well but HIV is now a treatable disease and has become something of a side-issue. There are now much more worrying pathogens around. As for BBFS I don't ask for it in FKKs but I'm one of the skeptics regarding availability at acceptable prices with the better-looking girls. I mean without putting 500 E on the table. Even getting some girls to accept my own condom brand is sometimes difficult.
That's all very well but HIV is now a treatable disease and has become something of a side-issue. There are now much more worrying pathogens around. As for BBFS I don't ask for it in FKKs but I'm one of the skeptics regarding availability at acceptable prices with the better-looking girls. I mean without putting 500 E on the table. Even getting some girls to accept my own condom brand is sometimes difficult.So you guys are promoting me to go BBFS now then LOL!
I always use my own condom, I never had issue with that one. But I never try asking BBFS at German FKK. I did slide my dick on girls pussy before, stunner in German FKK, but I did not ask to put it in, I have however got refused few times on sliding my dick on pussy in German FKK.
If I find good one enough, I will try to ask for BBFS, I got to find one I want to penetrate BBFS first though. I am going to accidentally cum inside, nakadashi style LOL!
I don't think Mr Ho can see my posts. Maybe someone can point out that according to my calculations below, a man's chance of getting HIV from a vaginal session with a random German prostitute is 0.00008%.
Also given intercourse with a man who *IS HIV infected*, the transmission rate to women is 0.08% for vaginal intercourse, and 1.38% for anal.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/estimates/riskbehaviors.htmlI have read several articles related to those observational studies. Actually, the risk of acquiring HIV is about "per coital act" instead of "per sexual intercourse". So I believe the actual risk should be about 4%-8% per penile-vaginal intercourse if exposures to an infected source.
With regards to AO activities, The governments' and other organizations' statistics of likelihood getting STDs which are based on civilian populations are always irrelevant here because we are talking about WGs who sell sex for living and have sex with hundreds (if not thousands) men, particularly the WGs in AO clubs vast majority (if not most) of whom I think have some sort of STDs. Many of those WGs had STD (s) before starting to work in AO clubs and the STD (s) they had is the only reason they chose to work there because they didn't care anymore. If they didn't have STD (s), they would probably not work in AO clubs.
If you don't want to get STDs, you should avoid AO clubs or at least have condom protection there. In non-AO clubs, you should better avoid those well-known BB sellers (WGs). Instead you should work on the WGs whose regular you are and convince them to do it with maybe a little more expense if you really like AO and don't want to get STDs.
I used to do many BBFSs. I was always very selective in terms of whom I would do due to STDs and mainly chose the girls who hadn't been in the business long and were young between 18 and 20 and used my intuition.
That's all very well but HIV is now a treatable disease and has become something of a side-issue. There are now much more worrying pathogens around. As for BBFS I don't ask for it in FKKs but I'm one of the skeptics regarding availability at acceptable prices with the better-looking girls. I mean without putting 500 E on the table. Even getting some girls to accept my own condom brand is sometimes difficult.Let me point out that HIV is treatable but, most importantly, not curable and you will have to live with it for the rest of your life, together with the stigma that it brings. Treatment of HIV is supposed to be very heavy and brings a lot of side effects as well.
With regards to AO activities, The governments' and other organizations' statistics of likelihood getting STDs which are based on civilian populations are always irrelevant here because we are talking about WGs who sell sex for living and have sex with hundreds (if not thousands) men, particularly the WGs in AO clubs vast majority (if not most) of whom I think have some sort of STDs. Many of those WGs had STD (s) before starting to work in AO clubs and the STD (s) they had is the only reason they chose to work there because they didn't care anymore. If they didn't have STD (s), they would probably not work in AO clubs.
If you don't want to get STDs, you should avoid AO clubs or at least have condom protection there. In non-AO clubs, you should better avoid those well-known BB sellers (WGs). Instead you should work on the WGs whose regular you are and convince them to do it with maybe a little more expense if you really like AO and don't want to get STDs.
I used to do many BBFSs. I was always very selective in terms of whom I would do due to STDs and mainly chose the girls who hadn't been in the business long and were young between 18 and 20 and used my intuition.Very good point as the incidence of STDs in WG is very high, compared to the general population, and very few get regularly tested. Condom use decreases the risk of getting some STDs but not all, such as herpes, gonorreah.
With regards to AO activities, The governments' and other organizations' statistics of likelihood getting STDs which are based on civilian populations are always irrelevant here because we are talking about WGs who sell sex for living and have sex with hundreds (if not thousands) men, particularly the WGs in AO clubs vast majority (if not most) of whom I think have some sort of STDs. Many of those WGs had STD (s) before starting to work in AO clubs and the STD (s) they had is the only reason they chose to work there because they didn't care anymore. If they didn't have STD (s), they would probably not work in AO clubs.
If you don't want to get STDs, you should avoid AO clubs or at least have condom protection there. In non-AO clubs, you should better avoid those well-known BB sellers (WGs). Instead you should work on the WGs whose regular you are and convince them to do it with maybe a little more expense if you really like AO and don't want to get STDs.
I used to do many BBFSs. I was always very selective in terms of whom I would do due to STDs and mainly chose the girls who hadn't been in the business long and were young between 18 and 20 and used my intuition.That is what I plan to do. I do bareback here at home with working girls, but I also choose too.
Also being in FKK for 9 years without bareback sex, but with all other BBBJ etc and I never got any std in FKK so far, also I never read any std reports from FKK. It is odd though because many of these girls in FKK are quite reckless and fuck so many guys in FKK and outside, but yet, I never heard of incidents of std in FKK.
Didn't I see you post recently about your desires for the open borders and work visas that would allow Ukrainian women to join the ranks at the clubs in Germany yet here you state you avoid Romanians for fear of diseases they may have caught from childhood injections. Seems interesting you desire more women from a country in the top three of highest percentage of European countries with HIV and avoid those from a country in the bottom three. If you look for an excuse to avoid Romanians, pick a better statistic like avoiding petite, nimble ladies who still maintain flexibility resulting from years training to be a Womans Olympic Gymnastics Gold Medalist.
There are risks, I think largely increased by fellow mongers who travel to far off lands and participate in BBS activities. I recently read on several news sites that a British male returned from Asia and has been diagnosed with antibiotic resistant Super Gonorrhea.Thailand it is, Thailand, or possibly Philippines.
Ukrainians are beauty, I love fucking Ukrainian girls, they are among my favorite nationality to fuck, yeah I hope to find them in FKK in near future in large quantity like Romanians. This is possible Ukraine is ruined economically and I do not think they will ever do well with being sandwiched between mother Russia and west, so I be waiting for them in FKK, I hope they come by in large numbers.
I think we all miss Marketa. Aksena kind of took over in her role at Artemis for me after Marketa left. But now also Bulgarian Aksena may be gone. They were kind of the same type of girl. Except Aksena didn't smoke. Marketa smoked a bit heavily the last time I saw her. Wonder what she is up to these days.
I don't know what is up with Angelina. She does the exact same thing with me, hitting my balls if I try to ignore her. But she gets it more nowadays that she is not my type. But she is still shittalking me to her friends behind my back. I don't know what she says, but her friends don't go with me. Too bad for them I guess. The Angelina influence won't make them much money if that's their tactics to trust in her.Marketa was saving to do her business in Prague, so she must be somewhere in that beautiful city, she was great and all natural and no tattoo. Golden era of Artemis. Another one I miss is Geraldine Hungarian, Coco Greek albanian, Joy German also know as July in Palace, Kimmi blonde German from Berlin also worked in Palace, Ivy German girl from Hamburg, and list continue. FKK Artemis had real gold era from 2009 till 2015. It was very good 6 years.
Well now we are not doing too bad at all, so let us crave for the best stunners we can find here and there in various FKK.
MythoVirus
04-10-18, 13:47
I used to be a BBFS guy, in 2009-2012 probably I had BBFS around 100-200 Russian WG, at that time I was in total paranonia that I was sure I had HIV, I even developed hypochondriasis at that time, panicking with any new enlarged lymph node, sore throat, cough, etc.
However in 2013 I did pre-occupation mandatory HIV / Hepatitis be&see, and I was deemed clean from those shitty viruses.
Since then (2013) till now 2018 I probably had BBFS with 5 WG max.
All my BBFS were not in FKK Germany, and there were all vaginal non were anal, funny that I used to get a BBFS from WG that even refused BBBJ intitally, and all the BBFS I had was without an upsell, without even asking for it.
Speaking of FKK, I never asked for BBFS in any FKK club, except once I had it in 2016, it was in FKK Mondial, 30 Euro session, didn't ask for it, but it happened spontanously.
I'm pretty sure BBFS is not hard to find in most FKK, it needs either:
- Extra money as an upsell (300-500 Euro sounds reasonable).
- Prolonged session without an upsell (ie taking a WG for 5 hours etc.).
- Long term relationship.
- Deep understanding of human psychology, body langauge, and alpha demenour.
- WG overdosed herself with alcohol or whatever.
- Luck (like my mondial session).
That aside I'm just happy with BBBJ it can and had kept away from BBFS, with slips here and there (like once a year).
Since we are on the topic of BBFS, and HIV probabilty, no one mentioned the benefits of circumcision, last time I checked it does confer protection against HIV, as the foreskin is highly populated by an immue cell called dendric cells, which are the target cells for HIV itself, removal of the foreskin on the other hand significantly decrease those cells, ergo decreasing the chance of being infected with HIV. No pushing an agends or anything, just worth a read.
Lastly if any monger is truly into BBFS, I recommend an HIV specialist opinion, to consider Pre-exposure prophylaxis, or PrEP, which proved to be highly effective against HIV if used as indicated (more than 90% protection). And for Hepaitis be a vaccine is already avialable, just to check your serology. Only Heptitis see is without a vaccine or PrEP but luckly HepC is rare to occur from sexual transmission.
Kosher Kowboy
04-10-18, 16:18
With regards to AO activities, The governments' and other organizations' statistics of likelihood getting STDs which are based on civilian populations are always irrelevant here because we are talking about WGs who sell sex for living and have sex with hundreds (if not thousands) men, particularly the WGs in AO clubs vast majority (if not most) of whom I think have some sort of STDs. Many of those WGs had STD (s) before starting to work in AO clubs and the STD (s) they had is the only reason they chose to work there because they didn't care anymore. If they didn't have STD (s), they would probably not work in AO clubs.
If you don't want to get STDs, you should avoid AO clubs or at least have condom protection there. In non-AO clubs, you should better avoid those well-known BB sellers (WGs). Instead you should work on the WGs whose regular you are and convince them to do it with maybe a little more expense if you really like AO and don't want to get STDs.
I used to do many BBFSs. I was always very selective in terms of whom I would do due to STDs and mainly chose the girls who hadn't been in the business long and were young between 18 and 20 and used my intuition.Bfsie,
With all due respect we are entitled to our opinions but this post needs a rebuttal as having read posts on the internet since it incorporated prostitution in to the world wide web this post could be nominated perhaps for one of the silliest and outright most worthless posts I have ever read or even moderated back in those years I wore that hat. I am not attacking you personally or your choices however I do wish to answer some of these outright in my opinion silly statements that stem from opinion and some factually wrong.
From the bottom up.
You claim you used to do many BBFS. Congrats, Join the club. Many more men are in the club than admit to it. Most guys in this club stay in the club once they join up. However some leave the club often when they get a significant other but more often when they encounter an STD themselves. Might you share with us why you stopped BBFS? Was it an STD? Was it to protect a significant other (which would be the right thing to do) Please enlighten us, inquiring minds want to know. How does intuition come in to play when choosing who to bareback or not? Do you see what they do on the side outside of work? Do you know what they did in the room prior? 18 to 20 year olds? Really? STD rates are often higher in the category, many of the girls are younger and do not even know the risks and get taken advantage of. Studies here have even suggested STD rates among WGs that are not ' users' are less with the older ladies. FWIW I will not fuck anyone in the USA under 25 for several reason, one being that generation having tossed the condom out the door. IMHO that age group is a higher risk. Just my intuition. A girl not being in the business very long is automatically STD free? I disagree as sometimes it takes a ' lesson' for a girl to wise up. I met a girl once at a club on one of her first few days and I started losing my hard on and she ripped off the condom and let me AO her. Can I safely assume she is safe as she is newer? How many other men did she rip the condom off for? Another girl I did AO once in the Frankfurt area told me she kept a list and by the time she turned 19 she had fucked her fiftieth man! Yeah, that 18-20 crowd is real safe. FYI, she told me she wore a condom with none, that is right none of those 50 men. Everyone one of them ejaculated in to that hot young 19 year old. Safe?
I agree with you on not attending AO clubs or using condoms if you want to ' reduce your risks' of an STD but by no means should you use the word ' avoid. ' The AO club girls get tested although between tests the risks and the odds of a client do increase as each load of cum gets fired in to them. You really think if you AO a ' Shark' for example you are avoiding an STD. Got news for you. The next time you rim a girl in Sharks or get rimmed odds are you are kissing the rear end of the man she rimmed before you or perhaps he rimmed her and you are rimming her and licking up his slobber. Next up you can DATY her but AO is so rife there exists a great chance you will be licking the cum out of her pussy that has yet to get expelled from her vaginal region. Enjoy. It comes with a risk too. There are a few very anti AO Sharks. It has been rumored it might be due to the fact an STD was contracted that changed their behaviors. Those same girls started when 18-20 in the biz. You do realize many men go to AO clubs to fuck and AO ' my darling filthy and disgusting dirty Gypsies' than go to Sharks or other mainstream clubs and do whatever. Are those WGs at the mainstream clubs than exposed? Or are they immune? What happens when they bareback a guy in the middle of their 15 man marathon fuck that day and that guy was the one who went to an AO club?
Avoid the known BB girls at mainstream clubs, probably a wise idea and I agree if one is worried about an STD to do such, to each their own. Now I ask how do you know the ' non well known' BB WG do not really bareback. (They do, all do some it is just more obvious and known) How do you know if a guy just left some random AO Day Care Center with an STD and will do as you say see a lower volume Shark (not picking on Sharks, Sharks being used generically for mainstream clubs) and infect her right before you see her and pick up a present from the Day Care Center delivered to Darmstadt unknowingly? I am sure my example may be off medically as there are incubation periods but I think the point got across.
In your first paragraph I agree with you that we can not use government statistics for the reason you state and apply them to the game we play, all of us take on a greater risk in general as we are a very promiscuous group. These girls do fuck many more times and many more men than most civilians. You think most girls in the AO clubs have STDs? They may have a higher risk of contraction but they also get tested although the period between tests carries a risk but do you really think every mainstream WG is tested frequently? They all have lovers and boyfriends too that cum in their pussies after the paying johns. Many get a hot load of warm cum shot in them before work. I have dated hookers before and I loved pumping my cum deep in their pussies before they went off to work and than would laugh when I would read a review how they showed up with a dripping wet vagina and the guy thinks it was because she was turned on by him and brags how excited she was (thanks to my DNA though.) Those same loverboys in Germany are also fucking other girls many bareback during the time their girls are fucking us. Some of them even go to Dietz to fuck (Facebook can be very educational and is a great way to see some realities of what is really going on).
There are many reasons girls choose to work in an AO club and for the most part they can not get in to a Sharks, most do not have the looks. Most could not command the same money a cute little Shark can. I could list several reasons they choose an AO club but not worth it but it is worth pointing out that they do not care anymore, that they have STD's etc is just plain stupidity. That also implies they would be knowingly passing on STD's possibly and when you start making statements like that it is almost borderline character assassination of those girls. They do not want an STD. You seem to describe them and portray them in a way that they are a disease infested sub human being. I can assure you these AO club girls would rather not have to be pumped full of 10-20 loads of cum a day and they are fully aware of the risks but sadly it is the only way for them to make money now to support their kids, pay their bills and it is not like they come from wealthy families in Beverly Hills. In fact I went to college with several girls from Beverly Hills and the only reason I mention the Beverly Hills suburb is because a girl from Beverly Hills who was 19 (yep, right in that 18-20 range) did a gangbang in the basement of our frat house and 4 guys had to go to the doctor within the following week. While they were contracting an STD from the wealthy Beverly Hills 19 year old I was with a skank I picked up on Boylston Street by Fenway Park fucking her in some back alley apartment contracting no STD.
I am not an idiot fully aware I am playing a higher risk game going to AO Clubs but I am aware of the risks and do not want an STD. The same can be said of the girls who work there. They have brains and are not stupid. They also have hearts that I think are much nicer than the kunts in the mainstream clubs that bareback much more than any of us realize and on top of it want a crisp 50 or 100 note and a tip. Remember, if you play in an AO Club, a mainstream club or even the RLD you take a risk. If you are going to be in the pay for play world I suggest that all of us access our own risk. As for me when I choose how and with who I play I always play under the assumption that I take a risk with each appointment and also that each girl I see barebacked the prior client. They all bareback someone. Bareback trends worldwide have changed, guys I know are now doing AO in Thailand, Colombia, Mexico and especially in the USA the bareback sex has increased dramatically. Semen can live in the female body for quite some time, most likely the next time you see a mainstream girl and eat her out or fuck her your mouth or cock is coming in contact with another mans DNA. DNA cocktails are served outside of AO clubs too.
Be careful with that 18-20 crowd, I know more guys here who have contracted an STD from the 18-25 (a little higher than your 20) crowd than any other age category and I know this is the USA not Germany however the dynamics of AO / BBFS are pretty much the same, just the platform / location changes. I have not commented on any of these AO posts simply because everything posted the last few days to me is beating a dead horse as not one comment I see is new to me. This very subject has been posted about over and over on all the USA boards for 20 plus years now. Same shit different year. Nothing here is new to me. Everything is regurgitated opinions that have been posted for 20 years only difference being we are discussing it in Germany but bareback is bareback whether it be me pumping a creampie in to a Gypsy, pumping a creampie in to a wild and fun Mexican girl like last night at FKK Holiday Inn or perhaps the President of a western country pumping a hot load of cum in to a porn star.
However what you posted to me did stand out, the content IMO pure garbage. Let me make it clear to I am not attacking you personally as you have every right to buy the hogwash you posted but I will call it one of the most uninformed posts I have read since joining my first hooker board in the 1990 era. I highly disagree with 90 percent of what you posted however I 100 percent agree with your right to post it and believe what you want. We can not all agree all the time. If we all agreed on all subjects and all liked the same girls only we would not need message boards.
Thank you for posting what you did, once again I highly dissent from what you posted not your right to post it or you as a person / fellow member. Back and forth ' polite and civil' disagreements make these places better IMHO.
Happy mongering, enjoy whatever it is you do, assess your own risk and have fun, that we all have in common. This game is not risk free, if someone wants to pass judgement on me for excessive visits to sit on red couches I would hope they would pass the judgement on my choices not on me as a person. That is what I have tried to do here, counter your points not you nor your right to think that way. Just try to keep in mind that many of these girls we all fuck be it in a mainstream club and especially the AO clubs are not born in to the same world of economic opportunity especially ones in AO clubs. They are good people too and to insinuate they are STD infected and passing them on (which you have by your wording) is plain wrong, once again simply my opinion which is no more or less important than yours.
Respectfully,
KC.
Kosher Kowboy,
You wrote a short novel here. Am I entitled to my opinion here? What parts of my post offended you? Just tell me and I will write here again.
Kosher Kowboy
04-10-18, 17:04
Kosher Kowboy,
You wrote a short novel here. Am I entitled to my opinion here? What parts of my post offended you? Just tell me and I will write here again.Apologies for the novel, our government shut our boards down ( indirectly) so my keyboard is lonely.
Absolutely you are entitled to your opinion, we all are. Read and reply as you see fit.
Sorry for the length, I think I incorporated some AO thoughts both related to your posts and some other ones that went up the past few days that I did not reply too.
Sorry, I am bored with nothing to do today yet but watch the market tick (watching paint dry).
Be happy to read your reply.
KK. Thank you for your insistence on polite and civilised discussion. Unlike many ISG members you show it is possible to disagree (as you and I do on some matters) and remain on good terms.
As for AO girls not caring about STDs. Every one I have discussed this with have been very concerned and are horrified if any of their colleagues, or themselves, get an infection. They are as reluctant as anybody to get ill (I wish I could convince them to stop smoking).
Bfsie. KK did specifically encourage you to continue writing your opinion. I think the crux of the discussion was your suggestion that working girls in AO clubs only work there because they got STDs before working there, and don't care about repeat infections. I am not sure where you got this information from but it contradicts my own experience 100%. They get tested ad nauseam, take prophylactic antibiotics, and worry.
Rocky. Girls in AO Clubs get tested. Girls in non AO Clubs may well never get tested.
Cheers to you all.
It seems like the FKK clubs located in Frankfurt itself (Mainhattan and Palace) follow the condom law strictly, more so than other clubs based on posts I read here. Why is that?
I think the crux of the discussion was your suggestion that working girls in AO clubs only work there because they got STDs before working there, and don't care about repeat infections. I am not sure where you got this information from but it contradicts my own experience 100%.
I don't want admin to label me as a argumentative member and delay my post in the future, so this is my last post on this topic. I do have the sources telling me about this. Let's leave this like that.
Kosher Kowboy
04-10-18, 17:59
I don't want admin to label me as a argumentative member and delay my post in the future, so this is my last post on this topic. I do have the sources telling me about this. Let's leave this like that.I do not think there is anything argumentative in your posts at all, rather very good discussion material. I hope you rejoin the discussion. I disagree with your points, not your right to voice them. I think ' argumentative' would refer more to attacking another member's character not their message or simply disagreeing to disagree with no intention of carrying on a discussion related to the content.
Bfsie. KK did specifically encourage you to continue writing your opinion. I think the crux of the discussion was your suggestion that working girls in AO clubs only work there because they got STDs before working there, and don't care about repeat infections. I am not sure where you got this information from but it contradicts my own experience 100%. They get tested ad nauseam, take prophylactic antibiotics, and worry.
Rocky. Girls in AO Clubs get tested. Girls in non AO Clubs may well never get tested..Correct on the crux of my points it just so happens I expanded quite a bit on the topic. And yes, I do hope to hear what Bfsie feels on my reply to his statements if he chooses to post. Polite and civil always works best as you say, keeps members focused on the topics at hand rather than flaming each other and firing insults which certainly block the flow of good discussions. Which is why I dissented against the opinion of Bfsie not he the poster. We are all equals. We just do not think alike at times and this is good otherwise the red couches would be too full. Or maybe empty.
On top of the Crux you refer I also wanted to bring to light the hypocrisies that exist that if you AO a Gypsy you will be in a coffin tomorrow but if you AO in a mainstream club you are sticking your dick in the Virgin Mary. AO is beyond rife in the mainstream clubs, guys go between clubs including AO clubs. ' Cross contamination' is unavoidable so IMHO for one to think you can AO some girl at a real FKK club 'safely' is IMO not correct.
Polyamorist
04-10-18, 18:04
But she gets it more nowadays that she is not my type. But she is still shittalking me to her friends behind my back. I don't know what she says, but her friends don't go with me. Too bad for them I guess. The Angelina influence won't make them much money if that's their tactics to trust in her.Harassment pure and simple. And who is funding this behavior? We are!
We are like the rich husband whose wife lives a lavish lifestyle supported by him, and disdains him behind his back, and bit by bit in public too. All the time she pushes the boundaries, seeing what she can get away with, while he puts on a brave face.
If management won't listen to you at an FKK, go to another place. Easier said than done I know, but we have to stop funding the MMFKKs! Money talks and right now what we are saying is, "This behavior is normal and acceptable. This is how we value ourselves. ".
"Any wine will get you high.
Judge like a king, and choose the purest".
Mathnawi IV, 2683-96, Rumi.
Condom use absolutely decreases the risk of both of those. While Herpes can be transmitted through skin-skin contact, it still prevents spread from bodily fluids and sores located on the penis. Condoms are highly effective at preventing Gonorrhoea transmission.
Indeed Polyamorist. Thankfully there is only one Angelina though. But she is from the underworld. I once had a dream. She was in it, but she had horns on her head. Quite freak dream. LOL!
Member #4585
04-10-18, 18:25
Harassment pure and simple. And who is funding this behavior? We are!
We are like the rich husband whose wife lives a lavish lifestyle supported by him, and disdains him behind his back, and bit by bit in public too. All the time she pushes the boundaries, seeing what she can get away with, while he puts on a brave face.
If management won't listen to you at an FKK, go to another place. Easier said than done I know, but we have to stop funding the MMFKKs! Money talks and right now what we are saying is, "This behavior is normal and acceptable. This is how we value ourselves. ".
"Any wine will get you high.
Judge like a king, and choose the purest".
Mathnawi IV, 2683-96, Rumi.You sure know your Sufism.
Marketa was saving to do her business in Prague, so she must be somewhere in that beautiful city, she was great and all natural and no tattoo. Golden era of Artemis. Another one I miss is Geraldine Hungarian, Coco Greek albanian, Joy German also know as July in Palace, Kimmi blonde German from Berlin also worked in Palace, Ivy German girl from Hamburg, and list continue. FKK Artemis had real gold era from 2009 till 2015. It was very good 6 years.
Well now we are not doing too bad at all, so let us crave for the best stunners we can find here and there in various FKK.Yes, many top girls leave. Thankfully some top girls also return, and new ones join the ranks too. Or if you are lucky, you may stumble upon a girl you thought had left long ago, like I did at Wellcum last summer with Natali from Oase. Then there are girls who tell everyone including their friends that they are leaving the business only to leave the club, then I bump into them at a different club like I did with a girl at Oceans who had told all her Wellcum friends that she was quitting for good.
Too bad with Artemis's demise. It could be a generational thing and the club can always make a comeback like other clubs have done elsewhere such as Oase and Palace. But maybe the management was played out after that raid 2 years ago. There are still a few good girls at Artemis, but it is less of a destination worth several days in a row like it used to be. Nowadays Wellcum has taken over that role for me as a solo club with solid lineup. While the Hessen and NRW clubs more help each other.
Polyamorist
04-10-18, 18:36
You sure know your Sufism.Jazakallah Bitumen, if you're into it there's a great parable by the same poet on the dangers of the animal-soul:
http://www.naseeb.com/journals/very-interesting-rumi-poem-x-rated-7756
Neurosynth
04-10-18, 18:37
...
Also given intercourse with a man who *IS HIV infected*, the transmission rate to women is 0.08% for vaginal intercourse, and 1.38% for anal.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/estimates/riskbehaviors.html
I have read several articles related to those observational studies. Actually, the risk of acquiring HIV is about "per coital act" instead of "per sexual intercourse". So I believe the actual risk should be about 4%-8% per penile-vaginal intercourse if exposures to an infected source.Yes, per act, that's what I've been saying. But your notion that the risk is 4%-8% is incorrect. See the linked CDC statistics above. Given an infected partner, 8 in 10,000 vaginal male to female events will result in infection, and 4 in 10,000 for female to male.
8/10,000 = 0. 0008 = 0. 08% infected male to female transmission rate.
4/10,000 = 0. 0004 = 0. 04% infected female to male transmission rate.
And that's when the first partner is 100% surely infected. When talking about random encounters you have to multiply the possibility of encountering someone who is HIV infected by the possibility of transmission.
I also provided a reference that puts the probability of encountering HIV in a random sex worker in Germany at 0. 2%.
See page 14. https://ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/media/en/publications/Publications/dublin-declaration-sex-workers.pdf.
So the probability of a man getting HIV from a single random encounter with a female German sex worker is:
0. 002 * 0. 0004 = 0. 0000008 = 0. 00008%.
Good point. Thank you for injecting the voice of reason into this so-called "discussion. " There is no need to glorify activities which expose our working girls to unnecessary risks or which force our working girls to have to take "breaks" during certain treatments, thereby depriving everyone else from enjoying their company for certain periods of time.
So, thank you BigBuddy69.Come on, that's an arbitrary line for unnecessary risk.
BBBJ is an unnecessary risk but it feels way better than CBJ. Married men fucking prostitutes is an unnecessary risk, but it feels better than fucking the same middle or old age, monotonous vagina. Arbitrary.
TD.
I don't want admin to label me as a argumentative member and delay my post in the future, so this is my last post on this topic. I do have the sources telling me about this. Let's leave this like that.Ok. I accept you have some information of some kind different to my experience/information. I am interested to hear that you have these sources.
No way can you be labelled argumentative. You have replied with good grace
Cheers.
BigBuddy69
04-10-18, 20:10
4/10,000 = 0. 0004 = 0. 04% infected female to male transmission rate.
And that's when the first partner is 100% surely infected. When talking about random encounters you have to multiply the possibility of encountering someone who is HIV infected by the possibility of transmission.
I also provided a reference that puts the probability of encountering HIV in a random sex worker in Germany at 0. 2%.
See page 14. https://ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/media/en/publications/Publications/dublin-declaration-sex-workers.pdf.
So the probability of a man getting HIV from a single random encounter with a female German sex worker is:
0. 002 * 0. 0004 = 0. 0000008 = 0. 00008%.Don't forget that your 0.04 % was calculated on a sample of women who were diagnosed with HIV and taking care of their health. If you have sex with a woman in the first stage of infection and with some others frequent STD like gonorrhoea and chlamydia because she's fucking 10 different guys BB per day, the risks are probably much higher.
8/10,000 = 0. 0008 = 0. 08% infected male to female transmission rate.
4/10,000 = 0. 0004 = 0. 04% infected female to male transmission rate.
......
So the probability of a man getting HIV from a single random encounter with a female German sex worker is:
0. 002 * 0. 0004 = 0. 0000008 = 0. 00008%.Congratulation, you believe these numbers, and conclude that BBFS in FKK clubs is extremely safe.
The 0.04% infected female to male transmission rate, means, (Assume a WG works 250 days / year), a lucky BBFS guy keeps fucking a HIV infected WG daily for about 10 years, he would have only one single chance to get HIV infection.
I don't believe this BS numbers.
On the other hand, HIV Prevalence among female sex workers in Germany is much higher than 0. 2%.
I once saw a report that HIV Prevalence among male and female sex workers is very close. If HIV Prevalence for male providers is 20%, then it would never be so low for female providers.
Anyway, enjoy your BBFS, good luck.
Avoid the known BB girls at mainstream clubs, probably a wise idea and I agree if one is worried about an STD to do such, to each their own. Now I ask how do you know the ' non well known' BB WG do not really bareback. (They do, all do some it is just more obvious and known) How do you know if a guy just left some random AO Day Care Center with an STD and will do as you say see a lower volume Shark (not picking on Sharks, Sharks being used generically for mainstream clubs) and infect her right before you see her and pick up a present from the Day Care Center delivered to Darmstadt unknowingly? When Bfsie writes that he selectively chooses his BBFS targets based on intuition, I think he means this: he picks only from the pool of WGs that he believes to be strictly "condom only". Then he uses his looks, charm, and experience to seduce his inexperienced target, so that he becomes her first AO experience with a customer.
Kosher Kowboy
04-10-18, 22:36
When Bfsie writes that he selectively chooses his BBFS targets based on intuition, I think he means this: he picks only from the pool of WGs that he believes to be strictly "condom only". Then he uses his looks, charm, and experience to seduce his inexperienced target, so that he becomes her first AO experience with a customer.If that system works all the power to him or anyone else who uses that system. All systems are fine if they work except for one; that being the guys who switch positions and rip the condom off in between swapping positions and shove it in. Happens here unfortunately. One of my CFS regs had it happen the other night the guy ended up on the DNS list that gets circulated. Sadly, we have dirtballs among us and I am sure some clown has done that to a WG in an FKK. Other than that I am a fan of whatever works. To each his own. I would however like to borrow some looks and charms though to help my cause. The journey to AO Land has many avenues and paths to arrive at destination, for those that enjoy this activity one must find their groove and what works for them. As to being the first AO experience with a client ever or for that day my thought is ' you are never first and you are never last'.
I always assume they were previously ' vashed'.
When Bfsie writes that he selectively chooses his BBFS targets based on intuition, I think he means this: he picks only from the pool of WGs that he believes to be strictly "condom only". Then he uses his looks, charm, and experience to seduce his inexperienced target, so that he becomes her first AO experience with a customer.Also known as the Russian tactic?
In mother Russia you don't play the game, the game plays you.
As seen from the girls perspective of course.
Member #4585
04-10-18, 23:45
When Bfsie writes that he selectively chooses his BBFS targets based on intuition, I think he means this: he picks only from the pool of WGs that he believes to be strictly "condom only". Then he uses his looks, charm, and experience to seduce his inexperienced target, so that he becomes her first AO experience with a customer.Hi McAdonis,
If I may take the liberty to suggest, how you have interpreted Bfsie's intuition sounds a tad negative hinting at an older more experienced man (with power) derived from the attributes you have listed has taken advantage of as you say an inexperienced "target" which is a much younger girl as Bfsie has explained. I am quite sure you are not seriously suggesting that here but wish you will confirm that this is the case to alleviate some fears. Thank you.
Member #4585
04-10-18, 23:49
Jazakallah Bitumen, if you're into it there's a great parable by the same poet on the dangers of the animal-soul:
http://www.naseeb.com/journals/very-interesting-rumi-poem-x-rated-7756Remember: any loving is good loving. Nice after dinner anecdote.
Member #4585
04-10-18, 23:59
Since we are on the topic of BBFS, and HIV probabilty, no one mentioned the benefits of circumcision, last time I checked it does confer protection against HIV, as the foreskin is highly populated by an immue cell called dendric cells, which are the target cells for HIV itself, removal of the foreskin on the other hand significantly decrease those cells, ergo decreasing the chance of being infected with HIV. No pushing an agends or anything, just worth a read.The implication of what you have described means it's safer for working girls to bare back an Ottoman since they will be circumcised. Maybe this helps with conversion or why the girls like a relationship with an Ottoman. Just a suggestion.
Hi McAdonis,
If I may take the liberty to suggest, how you have interpreted Bfsie's intuition sounds a tad negative hinting at an older more experienced man (with power) derived from the attributes you have listed has taken advantage of as you say an inexperienced "target" which is a much younger girl as Bfsie has explained. I am quite sure you are not seriously suggesting that here but wish you will confirm that this is the case to alleviate some fears. Thank you.I used the word "target" all the time when I am speaking with other customers in the club. The context: asking them which WG they plan to session with next. Also the "target" is not always some innocent prey unable to defend themself. I'd say Egyptian Angelina "targets" newbies. But she's 97% unsuccessful. So the "targets" have the wherewithal to stand their ground and assertively tell her to go away.
With regards to taking advantage, age and experience does not matter. Nor does age and experience connote "power". I'd say many of these younger WGs take advantage of much older, experienced customers by draining their savings. Taking advantage to me would be a Weinstein-type situation. She does not WANT to fuck him, but she does it only because he holds the key to their dreams and aspirations. I can't think of any customers who would hold that amount of power over a WG. Maybe if said customer knows the owner and can get her fired? Or if said customer threatens to out her as a WG to all her friends and family on FB?
Bfsie clearly is confident that he can ignite the chemistry so that WGs actually want to fuck him. That is different from a man with power who blackmails a woman for sex. But in the end it is just my interpretation. I could be completely wrong. Bfsie can correct me and I will take zero offense.
My original post did not seem negative to me. KK and Pistons responded to it, maybe they though it was negative too? I don't proof-read every single word in my posts. A third of posters are moderated around here it seems, presumably because someone found their post offensive and reported them. Maybe I should be next.
Since we are on the topic of BBFS, and HIV probabilty, no one mentioned the benefits of circumcision, ....Let's say no to sexual mutilations!
Even if it's only males being mutilated and not "poor lill'girls", sexual mutilations are barbaric. Regarless of gender.
My original post did not seem negative to me. KK and Pistons responded to it, maybe they though it was negative too? I don't proof-read every single word in my posts. A third of posters are moderated around here it seems, presumably because someone found their post offensive and reported them. Maybe I should be next.Not at all was it negative. But like I normally do, I try to switch up the context and paradigm to put things in perspective. In this case making Bfsie the prey instead of the hunter. But you can switch these things around too if you wish.
The implication of what you have described means it's safer for working girls to bare back an Ottoman since they will be circumcised. Maybe this helps with conversion or why the girls like a relationship with an Ottoman. Just a suggestion.With this rationale it's fair to say the FKK ladies are more likely to BB men with less Smegma, I think commonly referred to by some women in the business as White Dick Cheese. As a circumcised male, I can tell you I have been told on multiple occasions by WG that they prefer performing oral, BB or Covered, on a easy to see that it's clean, without sores, and fresh smelling dick. I love reading ISG in the middle of the night when I can't sleep. I never knew there was an actual word for White Dick Cheese. I will take great pleasure in spreading this knowledge to women while spreading legs and parting lips around the FKK arena.
Trans Atlantic
04-11-18, 04:13
All these analysis of STDs stats are really a complete waste of time. Stats reflect group of people/encounters as a whole and not individual people and encounters. It doesn't reflect your lifestyle and / or genes and / or other factors that could make you more susceptible than the "average" person for certain diseases. It doesn't reflect the viral load of the girls you are BBFSing with.
She could be a walking bag of HIV virus vs. she caught HIV from 24 hours before your session changes the risk. She could be testing regularly but if she picked up an STD the first session immediately after providing her blood sample, it renders the negative result she receives two days later meaningless. If the STD she picks up have a long seroconversion period, then the negative results from her next several tests could also be false negatives. By the time the test returns positive, she could have been infecting various customers for weeks without knowing.
Just because that stats is 1% doesn't reflect your individual risk. If it is not 0%, then it means someone caught it and whether it is 10% or 0.04% or 0.000001% is really irrelevant if YOU happen to be that 0.000001%.
What matters is are you wiling to accept the consequences of being infected with a life-changing STD? For some mongers, maybe they don't give a fuck while others, maybe with wife and young kids may have less tolerance to the impacts of catching something as minor as oral herpes/gonorrhea/chlamydia.
There's really no point pushing stats to exaggerate or downplay risks from BBFS as they really have no meaning to an individual. It's an individual monger's choice on whether they are willing to accept risks and consequences STDs present.
That is what I plan to do. I do bareback here at home with working girls, but I also choose too.
Also being in FKK for 9 years without bareback sex, but with all other BBBJ etc and I never got any std in FKK so far, also I never read any std reports from FKK. It is odd though because many of these girls in FKK are quite reckless and fuck so many guys in FKK and outside, but yet, I never heard of incidents of std in FKK.I suspect not many established board member would go around and advertise they caught a STD especially if they hang out in person with other board members. They would probably setup a duplicate account to do so but then get they get their credibility challenged when people see the low post count of the duplicate account.
I used the word "target" all the time when I am speaking with other customers in the club. The context: asking them which WG they plan to session with next. Also the "target" is not always some innocent prey unable to defend themself. I'd say Egyptian Angelina "targets" newbies. But she's 97% unsuccessful. So the "targets" have the wherewithal to stand their ground and assertively tell her to go away.
With regards to taking advantage, age and experience does not matter. Nor does age and experience connote "power". I'd say many of these younger WGs take advantage of much older, experienced customers by draining their savings. Taking advantage to me would be a Weinstein-type situation. She does not WANT to fuck him, but she does it only because he holds the key to their dreams and aspirations. I can't think of any customers who would hold that amount of power over a WG. Maybe if said customer knows the owner and can get her fired? Or if said customer threatens to out her as a WG to all her friends and family on FB?
Bfsie clearly is confident that he can ignite the chemistry so that WGs actually want to fuck him. That is different from a man with power who blackmails a woman for sex. But in the end it is just my interpretation. I could be completely wrong. Bfsie can correct me and I will take zero offense.
My original post did not seem negative to me. KK and Pistons responded to it, maybe they though it was negative too? I don't proof-read every single word in my posts. A third of posters are moderated around here it seems, presumably because someone found their post offensive and reported them. Maybe I should be next.I also build a target list when I go to the clubs, containing the names of women I hope to session with. Maybe I should change to a more politically sensitive term, perhaps a "List of Eves". No, Eve has a gender and religious context. Can we settle on a "List of Them"?
Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm taking advantage of my List of Them or if they take advantage of me. It seems my abundance of good looks, experience and charm transfer to Them by the end of most nights.
Fact is, only a tiny bit of the customers go unprotected, so the risk is really minuscule if you go the extra length paying a fortune. And besides, it is even illegal now. So this is an oxymoron topic anyway.
I suspect not many established board member would go around and advertise they caught a STD especially if they hang out in person with other board members. They would probably setup a duplicate account to do so but then get they get their credibility challenged when people see the low post count of the duplicate account.No need to be secretive. I visited the AO places in Moers half a decade ago. I visited 5 times and got chlamydia twice. I fucked 2 or 3 girls each time. Doxocycline worked but it put me off AO in Europe. To me it seemed the risk was at least 10 times that of Indonesia or Africa where I had been barebacking then.
Fucking style might be a factor (protracted pounding with hardly any BJs being the worse).
Now I find sex with 0.02 polyurethane condoms is nearly as good as barebacking.
Trans Atlantic
04-11-18, 04:34
No need to be secretive. I visited the AO places in Moers half a decade ago. I visited 5 times and got chlamydia twice. I fucked 2 or 3 girls each time. Doxocycline worked but it put me off AO in Europe. To me it seemed the risk was at least 10 times that of Indonesia or Africa.Bacterial STDs are treatable with no lasting effects. It's like catching a food poisoning or other bacterial infection but just go on several weeks of doxocycline to clean up. If a established member who know other members in real-life or perhaps go on monger trips together and did catch something that is not curable, I suspect it won't be as openly advertised.
My point to Mr. Ho is just because it is not reported does not mean he can interpret it as no one on this board caught a life-changing STD from BBFS.
All these analysis of STDs stats are really a complete waste of time. Stats reflect group of people/encounters as a whole and not individual people and encounters. It doesn't reflect your lifestyle and / or genes and / or other factors that could make you more susceptible than the "average" person for certain diseases. It doesn't reflect the viral load of the girls you are BBFSing with.
She could be a walking bag of HIV virus vs. she caught HIV from 24 hours before your session changes the risk. She could be testing regularly but if she picked up an STD the first session immediately after providing her blood sample, it renders the negative result she receives two days later meaningless. If the STD she picks up have a long seroconversion period, then the negative results from her next several tests could also be false negatives. By the time the test returns positive, she could have been infecting various customers for weeks without knowing.
Just because that stats is 1% doesn't reflect your individual risk. If it is not 0%, then it means someone caught it and whether it is 10% or 0.04% or 0.000001% is really irrelevant if YOU happen to be that 0.000001%.
What matters is are you wiling to accept the consequences of being infected with a life-changing STD? For some mongers, maybe they don't give a fuck while others, maybe with wife and young kids may have less tolerance to the impacts of catching something as minor as oral herpes/gonorrhea/chlamydia.
There's really no point pushing stats to exaggerate or downplay risks from BBFS as they really have no meaning to an individual. It's an individual monger's choice on whether they are willing to accept risks and consequences STDs present.
I suspect not many established board member would go around and advertise they caught a STD especially if they hang out in person with other board members. They would probably setup a duplicate account to do so but then get they get their credibility challenged when people see the low post count of the duplicate account.Hmmm. BBFS is magical feeling, but yes it can be life changing and lasting. It is like getting hit by car crossing street.
I would not go to AO club though I always had interest to go, but I always thought looks of girls can be limited plus the hygiene issue stopped me from going.
I have to say though, I would have ask to do BBFS with some of my favorite in past, but somehow I never did in the past even bother to think about it. I propably will in future if I find someone worth a try.
If I get STD, I be the first on this board nagging LOL LOL!
However, with BBBJ, DATY and all other filthy activities, never caught anything yet in my over 21 years or more of mongering experience and about 9 years of that in German FKK. Let hope I go healthy all the way during my mongering life. If I become martyr of mongering life. , then. Gentlemen, it was worth a ride to be a monger rider around the globe LOL LOL! It was worth every tute, every minute, every sex.
Once a old monger told me on this forum and I took that a life lesson below.
Every dollar not spent on beautiful tute is a waste of money and waste of life.
So knowing above lesson, I strive to spend my free time and money on many beautiful tute till I die, I began mongering at about age 17 or 18, I am 38 this year, so hopefully I got at least 32 years more to fuck LOL! Or more LOL.
It was a helluva ride, and it will be helluva ride to be global monger rider LOL!
Bacterial STDs are treatable with no lasting effects. It's like catching a food poisoning or other bacterial infection but just go on several weeks of doxocycline to clean up. If a established member who know other members in real-life or perhaps go on monger trips together and did catch something that is not curable, I suspect it won't be as openly advertised.
My point to Mr. Ho is just because it is not reported does not mean he can interpret it as no one on this board caught a life-changing STD from BBFS.Right, so I ask you brave ones out of all mongers there, those who got std please speak up and share your ouch experience and repent or not repent on this forum. Anyone?
To begin with, I got no std, but I cut my dick several years ago during FKK as they sucked me too much, then it got repetition cut like boxer getting cut during fight. It took like a year till it get fixed fully, now it came back strong as rocky balboa, I can get sucked all day long and it is ok now.
MythoVirus
04-11-18, 07:42
The implication of what you have described means it's safer for working girls to bare back an Ottoman since they will be circumcised. Maybe this helps with conversion or why the girls like a relationship with an Ottoman. Just a suggestion.In reality, according to the WHO and CDC, three randomized trials showed, circumcision does show to be 60% protective against HIV for the man. However once the man gets it, the % risk of him transmitting the HIV to a female is more or less the same if circumcised or not. So if the WG is a book nerd then this fact won't increase her chance to bb an Ottoman compared to non circumcised men.
Let's say no to sexual mutilations!
Even if it's only males being mutilated and not "poor lill'girls", sexual mutilations are barbaric. Regarless of gender.Circumcision can be an interesting ethical topic. But from a scientific point it shows to have more pros than cons, then it's worth investigating isn't it and to me it's fine if the male consents. But mass-neonate circumcision I do understand where you are coming from.
In my past trip in January, I got flashed for speeding. I got an administration fee and letter from Hertz, but did not get the actual ticket from the authorities. I asked Hertz about it, they sent me a copy of the notice they got from authorities yet; it is a small amount of fine (I think like 10 Euros) for speeding less than 10 km / h in an 80 km zone. They told me to wait for the ticket in the mail. Again, I have not received the ticket yet, and I really want to pay the fine to prevent any remote possible problems in the future for renting cars, etc. Any ideas how to approach this? Please don't tell me you have got a ticket too and teared it up, or ignored it, etc. I need practical advice on how to find out the ways I can pay it and don't want to let it sit there in my records.
Thanks!
Rogue Nation
04-11-18, 11:55
Usually the rental company pays the smaller fines directly and then invoices you plus the handling fee. Check the invoice again, probably the fine is paid and all fine.
Member #4585
04-11-18, 12:32
In my past trip in January, I got flashed for speeding. I got an administration fee and letter from Hertz, but did not get the actual ticket from the authorities. I asked Hertz about it, they sent me a copy of the notice they got from authorities yet; it is a small amount of fine (I think like 10 Euros) for speeding less than 10 km / h in an 80 km zone. They told me to wait for the ticket in the mail. Again, I have not received the ticket yet, and I really want to pay the fine to prevent any remote possible problems in the future for renting cars, etc. Any ideas how to approach this? Please don't tell me you have got a ticket too and teared it up, or ignored it, etc. I need practical advice on how to find out the ways I can pay it and don't want to let it sit there in my records.
Thanks!On the penalty notice there will be the bank account details usually an IBAN and reference number to quote for making the payment of 10 euro fine. Just look at the copy of the letter that Hertz sent you for this information.
Trans Atlantic
04-11-18, 14:31
In my past trip in January, I got flashed for speeding. I got an administration fee and letter from Hertz, but did not get the actual ticket from the authorities. I asked Hertz about it, they sent me a copy of the notice they got from authorities yet; it is a small amount of fine (I think like 10 Euros) for speeding less than 10 km / h in an 80 km zone. They told me to wait for the ticket in the mail. Again, I have not received the ticket yet, and I really want to pay the fine to prevent any remote possible problems in the future for renting cars, etc. Any ideas how to approach this? Please don't tell me you have got a ticket too and teared it up, or ignored it, etc. I need practical advice on how to find out the ways I can pay it and don't want to let it sit there in my records.
Thanks!Do you live in Europe? If not, it is very likely the authorities dropped the matter because trying to collect from a driver outside of the continent has a low probably of success and not worth their time over a €10 fine. And no you will not have any issues with future rentals in Germany or even Hertz Germany. You will likely also find that the processing fee for making an intercontinental payment far exceed the fine itself.
And yes, I ignored my €100 German speeding tickets from 5 years ago and have rented 15+ times in Germany since.
Neurosynth
04-11-18, 18:52
Congratulation, you believe these numbers, and conclude that BBFS in FKK clubs is extremely safe.
The 0.04% infected female to male transmission rate, means, (Assume a WG works 250 days / year), a lucky BBFS guy keeps fucking a HIV infected WG daily for about 10 years, he would have only one single chance to get HIV infection.
I don't believe this BS numbers.
On the other hand, HIV Prevalence among female sex workers in Germany is much higher than 0. 2%.
I once saw a report that HIV Prevalence among male and female sex workers is very close. If HIV Prevalence for male providers is 20%, then it would never be so low for female providers.
Anyway, enjoy your BBFS, good luck.Well, again, these are the numbers published by the experts. You are free to not believe them, but your case would be more persuasive if you had citations like the ones I posted.
Here is where the 0.2% HIV rate among female German sex workers comes from. See page 14:
https://ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/media/en/publications/Publications/dublin-declaration-sex-workers.pdf
Here is what they say about the source of their data:
"Data for female sex workers based on sentinel surveillance in 2010 and HIV testing of 3037 female sex workers seen at 30 sites providing services. ".
Here is where the 0.04% transmission rate comes from:
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/estimates/riskbehaviors.html
Here are the studies they cite for the transmission rate:
"Patel P, Borkowf CB, Brooks JT. Et al. Estimating per-act HIV transmission risk: a systematic review. AIDS. 2014. Doi: 10.1097/ QAD. 0000000000000298.
Pretty LA, Anderson GS, Sweet DJ. Human bites and the risk of human immunodeficiency virus transmission. Am J Forensic Med Pathol 1999;20 (3):232-239. ".
Well, again, these are the numbers published by the experts. You are free to not believe them, but your case would be more persuasive if you had citations like the ones I posted..Most retrospective observational studies' results are not reliable. Usually, experimental design and sampling of those epidemiological studies are not rigorous. Confounding factors inside design and data collection would constantly cause huge biases in the estimate of the impact of the exposure.
I don't care whoever monger seeks BBFS if he is healthy. But it matters to the safety of all of us, if a HIV-infected monger intentionally distributes HIV through BBFS practices. He is a criminal. His BBFS risky behaviors would not only jeopardize those innocent WGs, but also imperil other mongers.
When Bfsie writes that he selectively chooses his BBFS targets based on intuition, I think he means this: he picks only from the pool of WGs that he believes to be strictly "condom only". Then he uses his looks, charm, and experience to seduce his inexperienced target, so that he becomes her first AO experience with a customer.You are exactly right. No offense to me at all.
Do you live in Europe? If not, it is very likely the authorities dropped the matter because trying to collect from a driver outside of the continent has a low probably of success and not worth their time over a 10 fine. And no you will not have any issues with future rentals in Germany or even Hertz Germany. You will likely also find that the processing fee for making an intercontinental payment far exceed the fine itself.
And yes, I ignored my 100 German speeding tickets from 5 years ago and have rented 15+ times in Germany since.Well those who monger in Zurich Switzerland be aware, Swiss authority keep their traffic fine record in computer for I think 10 years.
So if you got traffic fine in Switzerland, next time you visit, they will stop you at passport control and you got to pay fine there with crazy interest rates. Or you do not enter or may even detain you.
I think it was 10 years they keep your fine record in Switzerland.
UltraHappy
04-12-18, 01:32
No need to be secretive. I visited the AO places in Moers half a decade ago. I visited 5 times and got chlamydia twice. I fucked 2 or 3 girls each time.
Now I find sex with 0.02 polyurethane condoms is nearly as good as barebacking.Yikes! I don't like the sound of those odds. Thank you for sharing.
For me, I always wear a raincoat during sex but never for oral. I've been enjoying BBBJs for quite a number of years now and still haven't ever caught an STD. I know of guys who have caught STDs from just a BBBJ, but it just hasn't happened to me yet.
So far, from all the hundreds and hundreds of BBBJs I've had, I've caught 3 different types of fungal infections and 2 non-serious urinary tract infections. The fungal infections went away following a treatment with topical anti-fungal cream. The non-serious urinary tract infections went away on their own after 1 or 2 days. STD tests in all cases confirmed no STDs.
Just my experience.
No need to be secretive. I visited the AO places in Moers half a decade ago. I visited 5 times and got chlamydia twice. I fucked 2 or 3 girls each time. Doxocycline worked but it put me off AO in Europe. To me it seemed the risk was at least 10 times that of Indonesia or Africa where I had been barebacking then.
Fucking style might be a factor (protracted pounding with hardly any BJs being the worse).
Now I find sex with 0.02 polyurethane condoms is nearly as good as barebacking.Sounds bad. Did Doxocycline or whatever that is kill the chlamydia altogether?. I guess the laws on this did have a good purpose. Although BBBJ should have been exempted as you won't contract many std's there. Except maybe herpes which most people probably have already according to statistics. I never tested myself, but I've heard from some FKK girls who says no to kissing that they had herpes and used that as an excuse, so I am guessing most FKK girls have some form of herpes. But over 90% of most populations already have one or more strains of herpes, and in most people the virus just stays dormant anyway.
Member #4585
04-12-18, 04:03
My thanks to Kosher Kowboy for his soliloquy on the merits of BBFS and rimjob. It has been entertaining.
The interesting point is the sharing and caring going on between men. As Mr Ho says pussy brothers.
Kosher Kowboy points out that the guy who as finished in a woman leaving his come inside may not always be able to get all the come out of her before the next guy in the train lines up to bang her next. Subsequent customer may want to perform DATY so will go down on her and enjoy licking the pussy and the come deposit unknowingly from her pussy. As the French poet may like to say he has a meal of cyprine juices but how can we be sure that is what he is getting. There is no labelling to check like at the grocery store.
Furthermore, for the girls that perform bare back anal letting the guy come in their asshole, there is always the good chance that not all the come has been squeezed and mopped out of her butthole. Next customers enjoying a pretty girls ass may lick her butthole and also get a salty treat left over from the previous customer.
Now in my experience, I find an alarming number of girls working in this job that do not take birth control. They are relying on either luck or condoms to not become pregnant.
The reasons for not taking birth control is that they do not have support of German health service so pay private which is costly so do not get the birth control to the reason that birth control pill plays havoc with their period cycle.
This has led to times when guys perform BBFS and finished with CIP that the girl has gotten pregnant. Ok. There are solutions to this as well but it is too much stress I think.
I have heard of instances of girls needing to go away to deal with these accidents so to speak.
So maybe it is better to perform BBFS anal than BBFS pussy to avoid the pregnancy angle.
Really, there seems a lot of girls in my experience say they do not take birth control working this job.
Sharks and Oase super stars have said one of the reasons the do not perform AO or BBFS is because they do not take birth control as they hate the cyclical period that the pill generates. The girl never mentions STDs as the reason. It could be just a nice way of saying no. But then they will allow some AO sex but no CIP due to reason mentioned. There is still the risk that some spunk does come out even if you pull out when full orgasm happens. Babies do happen.
Based on this line of thinking it appears that bare back anal is safer regardless of the medical reasons of anal activity is riskier than vaginal activities.
Usually the rental company pays the smaller fines directly and then invoices you plus the handling fee. Check the invoice again, probably the fine is paid and all fine.Rogue Nation: The fine is not included in the Hertz billing. They charged me close to 30 Euros but that was just for their admin fees. In the Hertz's bill it specifically says the ticket comes separately. Thanks.
On the penalty notice there will be the bank account details usually an IBAN and reference number to quote for making the payment of 10 euro fine. Just look at the copy of the letter that Hertz sent you for this information.Thanks Bitumen; the Hertz's letter does not have the bank info. I directly inquired Hertz about more info on the ticket, and they said I just have to wait for the ticket to come in the mail and they do not have more info other than the letter of inquiry from the authorities which includes the case number, vehicle's info, time, date, location and nature of the offense and amount of the fine..and a B&W and grainy snapshot of me behind the wheel :).
Do you live in Europe? If not, it is very likely the authorities dropped the matter because trying to collect from a driver outside of the continent has a low probably of success and not worth their time over a 10 fine. And no you will not have any issues with future rentals in Germany or even Hertz Germany. You will likely also find that the processing fee for making an intercontinental payment far exceed the fine itself.
And yes, I ignored my 100 German speeding tickets from 5 years ago and have rented 15+ times in Germany since.Thanks for the info Trans Atlantic; good to know. I don't live in Europe.
Member #4585
04-12-18, 04:43
Rogue Nation: The fine is not included in the Hertz billing. They charged me close to 30 Euros but that was just for their admin fees. In the Hertz's bill it specifically says the ticket comes separately. Thanks.
Thanks Bitumen; the Hertz's letter does not have that information. I directly inquired Hertz about more info on the ticket, and they said I just have to wait for the ticket to come in the mail and they do not have more info other than the letter of inquiry from the authorities which includes the case number, vehicle's info, time, date, location and nature of the offense and amount of the fine.
Thanks for the info Trans Atlantic; good to know. I don't live in Europe.Trombone. Sorry. I thought Hertz sent you a copy of the penalty notice. What Hertz has done has just sent you a letter from Hertz.
Okay Hertz have not passed you the penalty notice then you need to wait for it to be reissued to you from Hertz.
My thanks to Kosher Kowboy for his soliloquy on the merits of BBFS and rimjob. It has been entertaining.
The interesting point is the sharing and caring going on between men. As Mr Ho says pussy brothers.
Kosher Kowboy points out that the guy who as finished in a woman leaving his come inside may not always be able to get all the come out of her before the next guy in the train lines up to bang her next. Subsequent customer may want to perform DATY so will go down on her and enjoy licking the pussy and the come deposit unknowingly from her pussy. As the French poet may like to say he has a meal of cyprine juices but how can we be sure that is what he is getting. There is no labelling to check like at the grocery store.
Furthermore, for the girls that perform bare back anal letting the guy come in their asshole, there is always the good chance that not all the come has been squeezed and mopped out of her butthole. Next customers enjoying a pretty girls ass may lick her butthole and also get a salty treat left over from the previous customer..We are hole brothers whom spent sometime in same cave LOL.
Well down side of bareback anal is that it increases the risk to HIV etc drastically.
HIV are infected mostly via bareback anal sex than bareback pussy intercourse. Via pussy it is hard to get hiv actually.
So bareback anal is not recommended unless you really knows the girl you are doing with.
I have done bareback finger anal a lot of time in FKK, but no bareback sex in pussy or anal at FKK yet. Pussy I might try.
Best anal bareback fingering was with Geraldine from Hungary in artemis. I enjoyed poking her anal with my fingers like a hentai medical doctor LOL Dr hentai LOL LOL!
In my past trip in January, I got flashed for speeding. I got an administration fee and letter from Hertz, but did not get the actual ticket from the authorities. I asked Hertz about it, they sent me a copy of the notice they got from authorities yet; it is a small amount of fine (I think like 10 Euros) for speeding less than 10 km / h in an 80 km zone. They told me to wait for the ticket in the mail. Again, I have not received the ticket yet, and I really want to pay the fine to prevent any remote possible problems in the future for renting cars, etc. Any ideas how to approach this? Please don't tell me you have got a ticket too and teared it up, or ignored it, etc. I need practical advice on how to find out the ways I can pay it and don't want to let it sit there in my records.
Thanks!If in Germany, as long as you do not go back there, it is OK.
However, you do the same in Switzerland, they actually sent me a invoice to my home, and also statue of liberty is 10 years I think in Switzerland for traffic offence, so if I go back there, they will get me at passport control and will be with penalty and interest rates added. It was for parking and not for speeding though.
Your record stays in computer for 10 years I think in Switzerland due to statue of liberty and Swiss are very strict.
Kosher Kowboy
04-12-18, 05:48
The reasons for not taking birth control is that they do not have support of German health service so pay private which is costly so do not get the birth control to the reason that birth control pill plays havoc with their period cycle.
Sharks and Oase super stars have said one of the reasons the do not perform AO or BBFS is because they do not take birth control as they hate the cyclical period that the pill generates. The girl never mentions STDs as the reason. It could be just a nice way of saying no. The above makes sense about not being able to qualify for German government assistance to get birth control. How expensive is that stuff? If the ugly Gypsies in Dietzenbach can afford the pill or tablets as the Gypsies call them certainly a more mainstream club WG should be able to afford them. I think a lot of girls probably are on birth control and will say they are not to give them that out, it happens here often. One told me if a guy gets pushy for BBFS he will stop once he is told she is not on BC. The man has no way to know either way if she is or is not on BC but he drops his request / demand once he is told she is not. My gut is more girls are on BC as a precautionary measure that we think.
One member forget at moment who as there were many posts on it has been commenting on the similarities between Romanian and Latin cultures. For a few years back in the early 2 K's I spent nearly every weekend in the brothels on the Texas / Mexico border. I found myself encountering BBFS opportunities and one time a girl I creampied the prior week told me to pull out and not cum in her. I shot on her chest and asked her why I could not creampie her and as it turns out she like many of the others down there were timing their cycles and ovulating dates etc. When I asked why they just do not take the pill I got the reply that religion was the reason.
Brings me back to this string of posts about the tie ins between Latin and Romanian cultures. Could religion be part of the reason these girls (majority Romanian) in the FKK clubs do not take birth control? It was not just Mexico, it was also the girls in Costa Rica and most recently in Panama City the Colombian girl. All timed their cycles. All cited religion. Apparently contraception of all forms is not in sync with Christianity or the rulings of the Church. The same can be said for abortion so if you knock up a Latina odds are a little baby will be popping out (plus it is a ticket to America in their minds). For that reason they barebacked the Americans they thought had cash or they liked and made the Mexican locals wear condoms.
Are Romanians possibly not taking birth control for religious reasons or for that matter is abortion an illegal practice in Romania? It appears from the posts and the Easter (s) breaks all these gals take that Romania and their laws / culture may be shaped around religious views much like Latin America?
And what about the real Gypsies? What do Gypsies believe in anyway? (Besides laying flat on their backs getting pumped full of cum 250 or more times a month and walking away with 40 stinking Euros).
The above makes sense about not being able to qualify for German government assistance to get birth control. How expensive is that stuff? If the ugly Gypsies in Dietzenbach can afford the pill or tablets as the Gypsies call them certainly a more mainstream club WG should be able to afford them. I think a lot of girls probably are on birth control and will say they are not to give them that out, it happens here often. One told me if a guy gets pushy for BBFS he will stop once he is told she is not on BC. The man has no way to know either way if she is or is not on BC but he drops his request / demand once he is told she is not. My gut is more girls are on BC as a precautionary measure that we think.
One member forget at moment who as there were many posts on it has been commenting on the similarities between Romanian and Latin cultures. For a few years back in the early 2 K's I spent nearly every weekend in the brothels on the Texas / Mexico border. I found myself encountering BBFS opportunities and one time a girl I creampied the prior week told me to pull out and not cum in her. I shot on her chest and asked her why I could not creampie her and as it turns out she like many of the others down there were timing their cycles and ovulating dates etc. When I asked why they just do not take the pill I got the reply that religion was the reason..Much talk about religion, Christianity in particular. The WGs in Mexico are likely practising Cotholics, a majority of Romanians are Othodox. I know many Romanian WGs who take birth control. I've also known Polish Catholic WGs who take birth control. I'm not sure how this weighs on the BBFS opportunities. There are multiple positions on contraception within the Orthodox religion, some allowing non-abortion types of birth control. I believe the weight of these church level beliefs have little bearing on the practices of Romanian WGs because the practice of prostitution is wholly forbidden at the church level. In summary it seems to come down to the personal beliefs of the WG.
UltraHappy
04-12-18, 12:27
The importance of Easter for the girls is that it is considered the most important holiday for the family to be together. It is not so much the religious undertones of the holiday, but instead, the traditional expectation that everyone in the family be together at this time of year. Historically, New Year's was also traditionally celebrated this way in Romania as well, but in more recent times, New Year's has become more of a time that you celebrate with friends and not so much with your families, so Easter has become even more important from a family gathering standpoint.
During Communist Romania, remember that abortion was illegal and not available due to Communist policies. Sex education was non-existent. Communism favored policies that promoted population growth. These policies contributed to a larger youth population but with fewer economic prospects. Ten years ago, all Romanian girls in FKK were a product of Communist Romania (any birthdate prior to Sept. 1990 means that the consummation act that produced the girl occurred in Communist Romania; yes, approximately, Sept. 1990, not Dec. 1989, assuming that human gestation period lasts 9 months, that is).
Trans Atlantic
04-12-18, 14:10
During Communist Romania, remember that abortion was illegal and not available due to Communist policies. Sex education was non-existent. Communism favored policies that promoted population growth. These policies contributed to a larger youth population but with fewer economic prospects. Ten years ago, all Romanian girls in FKK were a product of Communist Romania (any birthdate prior to Sept. 1990 means that the consummation act that produced the girl occurred in Communist Romania; yes, approximately, Sept. 1990, not Dec. 1989, assuming that human gestation period lasts 9 months, that is).I've been told sex education is still non-existent in Romania. I've been told some girls believe douching, timing, pill are all the same.
I've been told sex education is still non-existent in Romania. I've been told some girls believe douching, timing, pill are all the same.It is OK, Romanian girls get plenty of sex education by us mongers in FKK university. They come ignorant, they go back home with PHD degree in sex education from German FKK University LOL.
International degree too, we insert our international penis into Romanian pussy and our international cum into Romanian mouth LOL.
The importance of Easter for the girls is that it is considered the most important holiday for the family to be together. It is not so much the religious undertones of the holiday, but instead, the traditional expectation that everyone in the family be together at this time of year.
During Communist Romania, remember that abortion was illegal and not available due to Communist policies. Sex education was non-existent. .I hope so as from their religious point of view these Romanian girls are the sinners of sinners. But for monger like us, they are savior, so in a ways these girls are the saint savior for us mongers, they are born to suck our dick.
Well for girls with no sex education, these girls do know how to provide sex and suck dicks good LOL. Must be the DNA!
UltraHappy
04-13-18, 01:05
I've been told sex education is still non-existent in Romania.Interestingly, all the Romanian girls are constantly warned in school about pimps and not being tricked into sex trafficking by a loverboy. In fact, they are warned so much that the Romanian school system is in effect "advertising" for this profession as an alternative career choice.
Interestingly, all the Romanian girls are constantly warned in school about pimps and not being tricked into sex trafficking by a loverboy. In fact, they are warned so much that the Romanian school system is in effect "advertising" for this profession as an alternative career choice.So you are basically saying Romanian school policy is actually trying to destroy us mongers ambition, demand and needs to insert our penis into Romanian girls pussy, anal and mouth.
This is very bad thing for us, very destructive educational policy to us. Threat, true threat.
We mongers have to fuck more Romanian girls in German FKK so that they go back home and spread the great news of how German FKK is the place to be when they are young as legal occupational choice.
German FKK is wonderful career choice for Romanian girls because they can say they work in cafe in Germany, and they do not waste their youth fucking for free, they get money for it and when their youth time is up, they can go back home with some money pretend they are angel girls before and invest their money into some business back home and marry normal good Romanian guy who is too naive and ignorant to know her past.
Wonderful career choice for beautiful romanian young ladies to indulge themselves during their 20's. Wonderful career choice.
Interestingly, all the Romanian girls are constantly warned in school about pimps and not being tricked into sex trafficking by a loverboy. In fact, they are warned so much that the Romanian school system is in effect "advertising" for this profession as an alternative career choice.LOL, so basically a normal lecture can pan out something like this?
Everybody listen up, we have a problem here in Romania with more and more girls moving to Germany, Austria or elsewhere in Europe to sell sex for money. Sometimes as much as 10000 euro a month. Normally loverboys without other jobs here in Romania will ask you to come with them to richer European countries and sell sex for money. So both you and some guy acting like he loves you can make money for a living. So I want to ask you to stay here in Romania instead. Work in a store at a shopping mall, or as a hairdresser and make 600 euro a month instead.
German FKK is wonderful career choice for Romanian girls because they can say they work in cafe in Germany, and they do not waste their youth fucking for free, they get money for it and when their youth time is up, they can go back home with some money pretend they are angel girls before and invest their money into some business back home and marry normal good Romanian guy who is too naive and ignorant to know her past.This sounds good in theory, but in practice we know what happens. The overwhelming majority of the girls don't stay in it long enough to really earn a substantial amount of money first of all. And whatever money they do earn, they blow it all. And those guys back home aren't all so stupid. They (and the girl's family) know exactly what she was doing in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Spain. The practice is all too commonplace in Romania for people not to know. People have written that it's even being discussed in the schools. When I was in school, prostitution and pimping were not discussed as career options, good or bad haha!
Enjoyed recent Nude Day at Globe, CH. Apart from Bernds, rarely see full nudity at FKK clubs.
Experienced posters please update me on clubs that feature full nudity in the meeting area.
Thank you,
Dubner.
LOL, so basically a normal lecture can pan out something like this?
Everybody listen up, we have a problem here in Romania with more and more girls moving to Germany, Austria or elsewhere in Europe to sell sex for money. Sometimes as much as 10000 euro a month. Normally loverboys without other jobs here in Romania will ask you to come with them to richer European countries and sell sex for money. So both you and some guy acting like he loves you can make money for a living. So I want to ask you to stay here in Romania instead. Work in a store at a shopping mall, or as a hairdresser and make 600 euro a month instead.You inform the possible earning, they be jumping on pimp to pimp them to german FKK where they can earn 10000 euro LOL.
Well reality is that only few of them actually make good money in FKK.
But for sure these girls gave us good memory in exchange for reasonable amount of money we paid.
They don't seem to know what is a condom in far deep Romania, then guy run away when the girl is pregnant, then the girl let her child to her mum, and go to work to be fucked for money, to food her child who doesn't see mother when a baby.
Romanian girls don't find FKK address by themselves, from their far deep Romania.
Interestingly, all the Romanian girls are constantly warned in school about pimps and not being tricked into sex trafficking by a loverboy. In fact, they are warned so much that the Romanian school system is in effect "advertising" for this profession as an alternative career choice.Fast quick cash in Germany sound good for these girls, sound very good for us monger too. And right, they are informing girls about alternate, but ultimate career choice for few years during their youth. Some do it for family, some do it for pimp or loverboys, some do it for their seed money they need for their venture business dream or seed money for university.
I know few working girls I had on facebook (they kicked me out for no reason after while LOL) that I met at FKK went back to Romania and by looking at the pictures and profile they do attend university there, so sometimes when they say student or want to go to university, they are telling the truth.
Do you mongers outside of the EUR zone, always exchange your currencies immediately before your trip? Based on the high-low currency swings between USD and EUR over the last year, 1000 USD would have yielded the American monger anywhere between 770-940 EUR (according to Google rates).
Has anybody used Transferwise to convert and hold their currencies? They charge nothing for adding money to your Transferwise balance. And they convert between currencies at near market exchange rates (what appears on Google). For example, 1000 USD would have bought you 940 EUR on April 14,2017. If exchanged back to USD on Feb 1, 2018 at 1.25, you would have ended up with 1175 USD. The downside is Transferwise charges a 2% fee when you withdraw over a certain amount and 0.35-1 percent for each conversion. So you'd probably end up with 1140USD. Still a 14% profit.
Are other options better? One could always go with domestic bank account that will let you hold multiple currencies. Or attempt to open a bank account in a second country. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/current-accounts/worried-pound-best-ways-euros-dollars/.
Kosher Kowboy
04-13-18, 16:08
Do you mongers outside of the EUR zone, always exchange your currencies immediately before your trip? Based on the high-low currency swings between USD and EUR over the last year, 1000 USD would have yielded the American monger anywhere between 770-940 EUR (according to Google rates).
Has anybody used Transferwise to convert and hold their currencies? They charge nothing for adding money to your Transferwise balance. And they convert between currencies at near market exchange rates (what appears on Google). For example, 1000 USD would have bought you 940 EUR on April 14,2017. If exchanged back to USD on Feb 1, 2018 at 1.25, you would have ended up with 1175 USD. The downside is Transferwise charges a 2% fee when you withdraw over a certain amount and 0.35-1 percent for each conversion. So you'd probably end up with 1140USD. Still a 14% profit.
Are other options better? One could always go with domestic bank account that will let you hold multiple currencies. Or attempt to open a bank account in a second country. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/current-accounts/worried-pound-best-ways-euros-dollars/.Good questions, I am wondering some of the same. Today 1 Euro will cost me $1. 2963 thru Wells Fargo. No fees on top of the that but the buy / sell spread is pretty wide. For the difference of a few pennies I accept the fact I may be paying more than if went another route but I land ready to pound the pavement and can get off the plane, get on the train and check in to my hotel and go to a club. No stops, banks, kiosks, risk of my ATM card not working. I pay a few extra cents for that I am sure per dollar converted. Upon return I always bring 500-1500 Euros home so I have a head start on the next trip and also never exchange them back to dollars even though the bank teller offers such I tell her I am not an idiot. They already screwed me on the buy side and they want to screw you on the backside as well and buy them back. I hold them and spend them. I am one of the few if any who requests more than 100e in 20 notes but they do not know why I ask for so many hundreds of Euros in 20 bills :D
I have asked my banker if setting up an account with a German Bank (if allowed to do so as a non E. U. Citizen) and making a nice sized deposit if there is a way to convert for cheaper if you hold a minimum balance or for that matter a Spanish bank as Euros used all over. With plans to stay extended times there in the future ideally getting my Euros for cheapest is ideal.
So I join you in your curiosity of the best options. Thanks for posting this topic as I wonder much the same.
I have asked my banker if setting up an account with a German Bank (if allowed to do so as a non E. U. Citizen) and making a nice sized deposit if there is a way to convert for cheaper if you hold a minimum balance or for that matter a Spanish bank as Euros used all over. With plans to stay extended times there in the future ideally getting my Euros for cheapest is ideal.
Late-2016, early-2017, while not a historic low, was the most favorable for Americans over the previous 13 years. So if you had implemented your "nice sized deposit" plan at that time, you could use that nest egg for your mongering activities, for the foreseeable future. http://www.macrotrends.net/2548/euro-dollar-exchange-rate-historical-chart.
My understanding is Transferwise is a peer-to-peer service. So if you are looking to convert USD to EUR they match you up with people willing to convert in opposite direction. This allows them to give the absolute best exchange rate. They take a percentage for providing the technology to bring the two parties together. Transferwise is backed by Richard Branson. Some are anticipating a 2018 IPO. Transferwise's marketing term "borderless account" is pure genius. Maybe these upstarts will make traditional banks and exchange services more competitive.
https://transferwise.com/gb/borderless/pricing
At citibank you can open a priority account with high minimum balance, they will waive any fee and just use the spot exchange rate for currency exchange. You can draw euro from ATM in europe with only handling fee (about 4-5 euro per draw). Citibank's priority account's minimum balance is $50,000 including all the citibank accounts and citibank brokerage account balance. For UK mongers Citibank has a good-size branch in UK and I think they should have the same priority account program.
https://online.citi.com/US/JRS/pands/detail.do?ID=CitiPriorityCompare&JFP_TOKEN=76GZYZ2N
Rogue Nation
04-13-18, 17:10
Enjoyed recent Nude Day at Globe, CH. Apart from Bernds, rarely see full nudity at FKK clubs.
Experienced posters please update me on clubs that feature full nudity in the meeting area.
Thank you,
Dubner.All clubs in Hessen are FKK clubs. That means they have one day with lingerie, all other days are fully nude. With various interpretations of fully nude. World and Mainhattan still are very strict about being nude, Oase, Palace and Sharks are less strict, girls might wear some pieces of clothing.
Most clubs in NRW are sauna clubs. That means girls are not nude.
Samson Monger
04-13-18, 17:34
Charles Schwabb Investor Checking Account. Open one investment account and opt in for the investor checking account. No account maintenance fees or minimums that I know of, I only have a few thousand in it so there can't be much of a minimum if any. I get market rates and all ATM fees refunded / waived.
Good questions, I am wondering some of the same. Today 1 Euro will cost me $1. 2963 thru Wells Fargo. No fees on top of the that but the buy / sell spread is pretty wide. For the difference of a few pennies I accept the fact I may be paying more than if went another route but I land ready to pound the pavement and can get off the plane, get on the train and check in to my hotel and go to a club. No stops, banks, kiosks, risk of my ATM card not working. I pay a few extra cents for that I am sure per dollar converted. Upon return I always bring 500-1500 Euros home so I have a head start on the next trip and also never exchange them back to dollars even though the bank teller offers such I tell her I am not an idiot. They already screwed me on the buy side and they want to screw you on the backside as well and buy them back. I hold them and spend them. I am one of the few if any who requests more than 100e in 20 notes but they do not know why I ask for so many hundreds of Euros in 20 bills :D
I have asked my banker if setting up an account with a German Bank (if allowed to do so as a non E. U. Citizen) and making a nice sized deposit if there is a way to convert for cheaper if you hold a minimum balance or for that matter a Spanish bank as Euros used all over. With plans to stay extended times there in the future ideally getting my Euros for cheapest is ideal.
So I join you in your curiosity of the best options. Thanks for posting this topic as I wonder much the same.Be aware that there are extra tax filing requirements on foreign banks for US citizens / residents. Additionally, international transfers over a certain amount, I believe $10,000 will trigger unwanted attention.
At citibank you can open a priority account with high minimum balance, they will waive any fee and just use the spot exchange rate for currency exchange.
https://online.citi.com/US/JRS/pands/detail.do?ID=CitiPriorityCompare&JFP_TOKEN=76GZYZ2NDoes this Citibank priority account allow you to hold dollars, euros, sterling, baht, reai in five different pots? Waiving the conversion fees and using spot exchange rate sounds great, but how do they protect against the weak dollar?
The idea is to be able to buy a lot of currency when it is on sale and stockpile it. Hypothetically, lets say KK, back in the summer of 2002 had converted $1M to 1M EUR and deposited it in a German bank account. KK plans to visit the FKK with two American friends. Let's say all three American mongers want to withdraw 400 EUR and the current day's EUR to USD rate is 1.25:
Friend #1 has a priority Citibank account so his withdrawal of 400 EUR would cost him 500 USD, conversion fee waived, plus ATM withdrawal fee.
Friend #2 has a normal Citibank account, so he gets 1.27 instead of 1.25, so his withdrawal of 400 EUR would cost him 508 USD, plus conversion fee, plus ATM withdrawal fee.
KK has a German debit card for his German bank account. His withdrawal of 400 EUR costs him 400 USD, because his money was converted back in 2002. Essentially, if the exchange rate goes from 1.25 to 1.50, it does not affect KK at the ATM. The dollar would have to gain strength to a level that has not been seen in the last 16 years. Only at that point, would KK stop withdrawing from his German bank account, and start converting USD to EUR.
BadinSweet
04-13-18, 19:52
Charles Schwabb Investor Checking Account. Open one investment account and opt in for the investor checking account. No account maintenance fees or minimums that I know of, I only have a few thousand in it so there can't be much of a minimum if any. I get market rates and all ATM fees refunded / waived.For US mongers, Schwab bank is the way to go. No fee and you get good rate. You can also call them to increase the daily ATM limit from $500 to whichever amount you want. I used to carry a lot of Euro until I opened up Schwab acct. It's so convenience to just go to ATM and withdraw a large sum of Euro at once. Some ATM will not let you take so much out at once though. I find Deutsche bank always give me the amount I requested (eventhough I don't want to support them with all this story about their money laundering).
I have been rewarding Schwab by moving my Roth IRA to them. Plus their investing acct has some low expense fee comparing to Vanguard, Fidelity, T Rowe, etc.
https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account
The idea is to be able to buy a lot of currency when it is on sale and stockpile it. Hypothetically, lets say KK, back in the summer of 2002 had converted $1M to 1M EUR and deposited it in a German bank account. KK plans to visit the FKK with two American friends. Let's say all three American mongers want to withdraw 400 EUR and the current day's EUR to USD rate is 1.25:
Friend #1 has a priority Citibank account so his withdrawal of 400 EUR would cost him 500 USD, conversion fee waived, plus ATM withdrawal fee.
Friend #2 has a normal Citibank account, so he gets 1.27 instead of 1.25, so his withdrawal of 400 EUR would cost him 508 USD, plus conversion fee, plus ATM withdrawal fee.
KK has a German debit card for his German bank account. His withdrawal of 400 EUR costs him 400 USD, because his money was converted back in 2002. Essentially, if the exchange rate goes from 1.25 to 1.50, it does not affect KK at the ATM. The dollar would have to gain strength to a level that has not been seen in the last 16 years. Only at that point, would KK stop withdrawing from his German bank account, and start converting USD to EUR.The fundamental question is: Can anyone predict exchange rate (euro vs us dollar in this case) 10 years (or even 1 year) from now? The answer is NO.
Your premise in your post is that you knew in 2002 that EUR to USD rate (1. 25) now would be higher than the rate (1. 00) in 2002, but what if current EUR to USD rate now were 0. 50 (instead of 1. 25), then 400 euro would cost KK US $400, but would only cost his friend #1 and #2 200 USD and a little more than 200 USD respectively.
Does this Citibank priority account allow you to hold dollars, euros, sterling, baht, reai in five different pots? No.
Waiving the conversion fees and using spot exchange rate sounds great, but how do they protect against the weak dollar?
There is no way you can protect against weak dollar by using a bank account in USD, The only way to preserve current euro vs usd exchange rate is to use EUR to USD currency futures on the commodity markets or EUR to USD derivatives, if that is the case you also limit your potential of financial gain at the same time if USD becomes stronger.
If I knew how stocks and currencies would pan out ahead of time I would be richer than Bezos by now. Just saying. LOL!
Samson Monger
04-13-18, 21:32
The fundamental question is: Can anyone predict exchange rate (euro vs us dollar in this case) 10 years (or even 1 year) from now? The answer is NO.
Your premise in your post is that you knew in 2002 that EUR to USD rate (1. 25) now would be higher than the rate (1. 00) in 2002, but what if current EUR to USD rate now were 0. 50 (instead of 1. 25), then 400 euro would cost KK US $400, but would only cost his friend #1 and #2 200 USD and a little more than 200 USD respectively.
No.
There is no way you can protect against weak dollar by using a bank account in USD or any other financial instrument in USD, The only way to preserve current euro vs usd exchange rate is to use EUR to USD currency futures on the commodity markets or EUR to USD derivatives, if that is the case you also limit your potential of financial gain at the same time if USD becomes stronger.Point is to have assets in multiple currencies and withdraw the one giving the beneficial exchange rate when you need it.
Kosher Kowboy
04-13-18, 22:42
For US mongers, Schwab bank is the way to go.
I have been rewarding Schwab by moving my Roth IRA to them. Plus their investing acct has some low expense fee comparing to Vanguard, Fidelity, T Rowe, etc.
Charles Schwabb Investor Checking Account. Open one investment account and opt in for the investor checking account. No account maintenance fees or minimums that I know of, I only have a few thousand in it so there can't be much of a minimum if any. I get market rates and all ATM fees refunded / waived.Looks like the same / similar can be done thru Wells Fargo Advisers as well. I found out if you have a WFA Command account (s) you can do what Samson does with Schwabb banking and simply withdraw funds at market with your ATM card and get your fees waived in most cases and if not you pay as what Bfsie said a small 5 Euro or so fee. If you have an IRA held by them as Badinsweet does with Schwabb that balance even if held in equities or bonds and not cash will suffice.
I am told my cheapest way to get Euros is to use my WFA Debit card in an ATM and that opening a foreign bank account would not do me any good, taxes would come in to play on both sides of the ocean as Chongmal suggested.
There is no way you can protect against weak dollar by using a bank account in USD or any other financial instrument in USD, The only way to preserve current euro vs usd exchange rate is to use EUR to USD currency futures on the commodity markets or EUR to USD derivatives, if that is the case you also limit your potential of financial gain at the same time if USD becomes stronger.Very true and a risky play. You can kill or get killed trading futures outright. Or you can put on a position in the Euro-options than hedge yourself with futures and limit your exposure locking in a spread you hope is a winner. You will not make as much if you are right but you will not lose as much if wrong. I threw the towel in on futures when open outcry was replaced by computers. It was hard enough to trade against the size of the Bank orders or massive agricultural / food conglomerates if you were on the opposite side of it when the orders came in. Way too risky IMO.
I would rather be safe and buy 40 e Gyspy Calls and of course liquefy my asset quickly.
But you are absolutely right, no protecting against the weak dollar just having bank accounts.
Happy Euro hunting all.
Rogue Nation,
Thank you for the update.
Dubner.
The fundamental question is: Can anyone predict exchange rate (euro vs us dollar in this case) 10 years (or even 1 year) from now? The answer is NO.
I agree And like Pistons said, I would be rich as Jeff Bezos if I could predict currency swings. Re-reading my posts, I may have inadvertently pushed the "profit" angle too much.
Your premise in your post is that you knew in 2002 that EUR to USD rate (1. 25) now would be higher than the rate (1. 00) in 2002, but what if current EUR to USD rate now were 0. 50 (instead of 1. 25), then 400 euro would cost KK US $400, but would only cost his friend #1 and #2 200 USD and a little more than 200 USD respectively.
Having the foresight to convert at 1.00 back in 2002 would have been incredible. But the point is, like Samson Monger says, is to have two pools to tap into for mongering.
So let's change the scenario to something more realistic: KK converted his USD to EUR at 1.20. When the rate is above 1.20, he uses his German debit card to withdraw EUR. When the rate is below 1.20, he uses his American debit card to withdraw EUR. This assumes three things (a) KK doesn't have an urgent need to touch his EUR (b) KK has got reserves of USD in his bank account back home and (c) the EUR will at some point rebound above 1.20 again. Are those not safe assumptions to make?
I wouldn't advocate for an American monger to convert a huge percentage of the cash in his portfolio to EUR. Ideally, mongers are practicing some sound financial discipline and not blowing all their disposable income on the hobby. Let's say KK earmarks 10 percent of his after-tax income to mongering. Multiply that by 5, and that's what I would convert to EUR. I am thinking that could last him 8 years or more, because like I said he would only be withdrawing EUR when exchange rates are higher than 1.20.
Just explain to me where the fault in my logic is. Not trying to come off like I know it all. Maximizing purchasing power of my mongering money is way more important!
There is no way you can protect against weak dollar by using a bank account in USD, The only way to preserve current euro vs usd exchange rate is to use EUR to USD currency futures on the commodity markets or EUR to USD derivatives, if that is the case you also limit your potential of financial gain at the same time if USD becomes stronger.My knowledge is admittedly limited here. My understanding is that futures can be used for two purposes: (1) hedging risk between commercial buyer and seller or (2) maximizing profit by speculating direction of price movements which is risky. Don't both hinge on specific dates in the future? With my cash in multiple currencies idea, the time horizon would be indefinite, because you are only playing with money that you don't have an immediate need for.
I am told my cheapest way to get Euros is to use my WFA Debit card in an ATM and that opening a foreign bank account would not do me any good, taxes would come in to play on both sides of the ocean as Chongmal suggested.
Multi-currency accounts: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/8497758/Plagued-by-forex-fluctuations-Multi-currency-accounts-could-be-the-answer.html.
Does your adviser know about Tradewise? It has only been around since 2010. Would be curious to hear his feedback.
Be aware that there are extra tax filing requirements on foreign banks for US citizens / residents. Additionally, international transfers over a certain amount, I believe $10,000 will trigger unwanted attention.The USA State Department estimated that 8. 7 million Americans lived abroad in 2015 and many millions more had foreign accounts, yet less than 1 million taxpayers filed FBARs to declare these assets. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/102915/tax-implications-opening-foreign-bank-account.asp.
Kosher Kowboy
04-14-18, 01:26
Let's say KK earmarks 10 percent of his after-tax income to mongering. Multiply that by 5, and that's what I would convert to EUR. I am thinking that could last him 8 years or more, because like I said he would only be withdrawing EUR when exchange rates are higher than 1.20.
Just explain to me where the fault in my logic is. Not trying to come off like I know it all. Maximizing purchasing power of my mongering money is way more important!
My knowledge is admittedly limited here. My understanding is that futures can be used for two purposes: (1) hedging risk between commercial buyer and seller or (2) maximizing profit by speculating direction of price movements which is risky. Don't both hinge on specific dates in the future? With my cash in multiple currencies idea, the time horizon would be indefinite, because you are only playing with money that you don't have an immediate need for.I like your numbers and how you look after my finances so well. 8 years of mongering sounds like a wonderful return on my meager income. I would like to fire my current adviser and hire you. He did not know about tradewise or it never came up but I will seek his advise. What are your rates and in what currency would I have to pay :D
Futures expire unlike an equity and expire roughly every other month. This is what creates much of the risk versus stocks. You own a stock it goes red you can hold it as long as you like. If you need the money from that stock you might have to jump on the sword and take the loss but you do not have to. With futures you face expiration so at some point you must get out even if it means losing. Most futures ' traders' will be doing (2) above and like in the trading pits of the NYSE trying to buy and sell all day long making a tick here and there hopping in and out of the market non stop. Futures traders try not to go home with a position given the risk of where the next day opening is. The traders are trying to jump ahead of the large paper that comes in from (1) the hedgers and big time player speculators often large companies like Tyson or Sysco for example in the agriculturals and in the Eurodollar / S&P / DOW futures as well as currencies the banks are often large clients.
The nice things about futures is you can enter from the short side, still does you no good if the market goes up as you have to get out of a loser but you can play either card to enter any trade. Stocks you have to get long before you can go short. I would look at stocks as an investment for appreciation and income especially if you do not need the cash today, futures are simply a gamble. You can not hold. If you need the cash you have to take a loss. Most futures expire every other month so if you buy today the June Live Cattle Contract and the price goes down you have to be out by expiration date no matter what and June is around the corner but if you buy the December contract today you have much longer to get out however liquidity in back months is much less than front months so they carry a risk as well as the spread can be bigger so if you need to get out you really might be taking it up the rear end as trading volume in the front months dwarf the backs.
Very risky game. Good luck if you decide to play.
:D
Do you mongers outside of the EUR zone, always exchange your currencies immediately before your trip? Based on the high-low currency swings between USD and EUR over the last year, 1000 USD would have yielded the American monger anywhere between 770-940 EUR (according to Google rates).
Has anybody used Transferwise to convert and hold their currencies? They charge nothing for adding money to your Transferwise balance. And they convert between currencies at near market exchange rates (what appears on Google). For example, 1000 USD would have bought you 940 EUR on April 14,2017. If exchanged back to USD on Feb 1, 2018 at 1.25, you would have ended up with 1175 USD. The downside is Transferwise charges a 2% fee when you withdraw over a certain amount and 0.35-1 percent for each conversion. So you'd probably end up with 1140USD. Still a 14% profit.
Are other options better? One could always go with domestic bank account that will let you hold multiple currencies. Or attempt to open a bank account in a second country. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/current-accounts/worried-pound-best-ways-euros-dollars/.I just use a debit card and draw out want I need as I need it. I use two accounts (credit union and Charles Schwab). Neither charge ATM or currency conversion fees, I get the end of day market rate with no commission for any funds withdrawn. Since I get just what I need I never have a large sum to convert back at the end of the trip (I take whatever is left in my wallet home and use it on the next trip.) I've been doing this for about 5 years and haven't had any significant problems (a ATM declined my Credit Union debit card once, I went to the bank across the street and used it there.) (My credit card, with Barclays, doesn't charge any fees either.) The Schwab conversion is always the published the end of day rate and the credit union is within 1 or 2 cents.
The conversion fees at the exchange businesses are normally very steep, I would avoid using them if possible.
Using the debit cards has simplified my life. I used to carry travelers checks and hunted down banks that would convert (not all banks will convert dollars to euros and NO bank in my local area will do a conversion (one of the reasons I have a Schwab account)).
Another option, don't know how convenient it would be, if the payee accepts PayPal, PayPal will convert from your dollars account to the payee euro account for about 1%. A store where I was shopping accepted PayPal and I paid for a book using it.
So let's change the scenario to something more realistic: KK converted his USD to EUR at 1.20. When the rate is above 1.20, he uses his German debit card to withdraw EUR. When the rate is below 1.20, he uses his American debit card to withdraw EUR. This assumes three things (a) KK doesn't have an urgent need to touch his EUR (b) KK has got reserves of USD in his bank account back home and (c) the EUR will at some point rebound above 1.20 again. Are those not safe assumptions to make?
In theory, you are right. Since you said "more realistic" in your post, a couple of points need to be considered. First, the entry point as USD to EUR at 1. 20 in your post is difficult to pick. For example, you pick at 1. 20 as the entry point, maybe USD to EUR will stay below 1. 20 for long time, even more than a decade, and your euro in a European bank will be stuck there. Second, from my knowledge, an American without EU residence permit can't open a bank account in any bank in EU because of the regulations.
My knowledge is admittedly limited here. My understanding is that futures can be used for two purposes: (1) hedging risk between commercial buyer and seller or (2) maximizing profit by speculating direction of price movements which is risky. Don't both hinge on specific dates in the future? With my cash in multiple currencies idea, the time horizon would be indefinite, because you are only playing with money that you don't have an immediate need for.KK explained very well. I would say it is not worth to use currency futures for hedging the money for mongering, which is too small compared to the amount in futures contracts. Another practical idea is, if the American monger is relatively rich, he can buy a lot of american blue-chip stocks or S&P index stock to hedge against weak USD because american blue-chip stocks usually have big percentage of their revenues coming from Europe, If USD is weak against Euro, they will have (or show) more european revenues and profits in USD and more european revenues and profits in USD will factor in their stock prices, consequently their stock prices will rise because of that.
So let's change the scenario to something more realistic: KK converted his USD to EUR at 1.20. When the rate is above 1.20, he uses his German debit card to withdraw EUR. When the rate is below 1.20, he uses his American debit card to withdraw EUR. This assumes three things (a) KK doesn't have an urgent need to touch his EUR (b) KK has got reserves of USD in his bank account back home and (c) the EUR will at some point rebound above 1.20 again. Are those not safe assumptions to make?For point (c) it depends on your definition of safe. The 10 year rate history charts show that if you buy at the wrong time a rebound level assumption won't hold. Whatever strategy you use you can't avoid taking a long or short position (wager) on the USD.
Pahllus Maximus
04-14-18, 10:47
I have explored Frankfurt RLD. Not bad. A short walk from the Hauptbanhof. Yes, some stair climbing, but a choice of young 20's from Spain, Poland, Italy, Hungary and Germany. Not that many Romianians. The places are clean and perfectly safe. It does feel sleazy, and the stairs and hallways are the walk of shame of sorts. The clubs have a thin veneer of more than pure sex seeking.
The Romanians are so concentrated in the FKK clubs that I am starting to wonder if they are somehow part of an organised scheme. I don't think I met a single non-Romanian at the several clubs I visted in different cities and countries. Many girls lie about being Romanian or claim to be Moldvian. So the clubs are filled with cigarette smoke (or still smokey even with a leaky smoking room), noisy, and the girls sharky and wanting to seal the deal in the least amount of time and upsell. The clubs make out like they are exclusive, but at the core dress up a RLD with some spas and so-so food (though the Wellkum club is excellent, but has the same passive smoking thing). You need to wash your hair at the end because you and your gown smell of cigarette smoke. Almost all offer bare back blow job and maybe kissing for extra. The reality is that kissing a girl who has had 10 cocks explode in her mouth that night is not the most appetising of experiences. The FKK girls are mostly scheming and all business. Oase is full of hookahs glowing as people puff away.
That is an interesting side note: smoking is strongly correlated with addictive behaviour and brain reward centres. You have to wonder about us and the girls and what percentage are smokers.
In summary: FKK's are noisy, smokey and have about 95% up-selling Romainians cruising like sharks. I am not saying all Romanians are like that, just the ones that seems to be mass imported by some hidden scheme that places them in the FKKS. They have pools and spas and a buffet. At the end though, they are smoke filled noisy brothels. Once you factor in sunk cost entrance fees, up-selling costs to get decent service, lung damage from 7 or more hours of breathing in smoke, hearing damage from noise, and EUR50-120 for each pop (in Romanian definition, bored looking girls lying there like a starfish, no kissing, short machine gun blowjob and then insisting you come as fast as you can), it starts to feel like a sausage factory (literally as well as figuratively). They know most guys will have 2. 6 pops. Most girls screw about 7 -10 men on a shift.
Many of you may not realise this, but the girls use lidocaine / xylocaine / lignocaine to numb their pussies and some use cervical pads as well. They are very much thrashed mattresses and have had hundreds or thousands of cocks in their mouths, pussies or ass. They are in the acting business. They need to smile and act sexy to us, downplay the business side and act as if they like us. I am not trying to be negative here, just explaining the economics and forces behind their constant upselling. One very pretty gypsy girl I had a pussy that no longer closed. It had a permanent black hole from so much cock. Pretty yes, but a loose pussy and lost interest in sex a long time ago after she reached the thousands. There is a limit of cock. Most girls can only manage a maximum of 40 cocks a week before they feel sore, depending on size and how long hammered for. Call this term average maximum cock per week (AMC). Also, the FKK clubs are very controlling, they make the girls parade naked and are forced to be on display, which is similar to shopping malls that force shops to open.
Passenger revenue per mile (in this case, punter revenue per pussy): the maximum ratio is about 8 cocks a day (they take off two days a week, so 40 ACM divided by 5). If we take a median gross of EUR600 per girl of pussy sold per shift, the clubs get a third. The more men the girls service the lower their FKK charge and net profit, but this is constrained by AMC. A woman can only handle so much throbbing cock. This is why upselling is so common. It is the revenue optimisation given the weekly AMC.
So they 60 to get in, about EUR156 for the girls paid by the punter, the girls who pay the FKK's about EUR120 to get in (that may include a room for them to sleep in) and therefore a FKK tax of about 10 to euros per customer. The men are out for about EUR220 per shift, the girls (depending on upselling) gross between 350 to 700 (230 to 580 net per shift). The FKK's get roughly EUR 200 for every person you see in the club. If we take a median gross of EUR600 per girl of pussy sold per shift, the clubs get a third.
The RLDs allow the girls more freedom of when they want to work, some share a room (thus lowering the overhead), they do not have to parade around etc. That is why the RLDs are cheaper, Frankfurt being an extreme case. Girls sharing a room break even after just two customers. Compared to short time in say Bangkok of THB 1000 excluding bar fines, (rate: 25.9758 per Euro), Frankfurt competes at THB 1,154.92, making Europe a good deal.
So all in all, The RLDs are excellent value, comparatively smoke free, clean and more choice. No buffet but you can use nearby restaurants and gyms with the savings.
I have explored Frankfurt RLD. Not bad.We know. You already told us. No need to post the same lengthy message twice in two different part of the board. That's being doubly negative LOL!
I have explored Frankfurt RLD. Not bad. A short walk from the Hauptbanhof. Yes, some stair climbing, but a choice of young 20's from Spain, Poland, Italy, Hungary and Germany. Not that many Romianians. The places are clean and perfectly safe. It does feel sleazy, and the stairs and hallways are the walk of shame of sorts. The clubs have a thin veneer of more than pure sex seeking.
The Romanians are so concentrated in the FKK clubs that I am starting to wonder if they are somehow part of an organised scheme. I don't think I met a single non-Romanian at the several clubs I visted in different cities and countries. Many girls lie about being Romanian or claim to be Moldvian. So the clubs are filled with cigarette smoke (or still smokey even with a leaky smoking room), noisy, and the girls sharky and wanting to seal the deal in the least amount of time and upsell. The clubs make out like they are exclusive, but at the core dress up a RLD with some spas and so-so food (though the Wellkum club is excellent, but has the same passive smoking thing). You need to wash your hair at the end because you and your gown smell of cigarette smoke. Almost all offer bare back blow job and maybe kissing for extra. The reality is that kissing a girl who has had 10 cocks explode in her mouth that night is not the most appetising of experiences. The FKK girls are mostly scheming and all business. Oase is full of hookahs glowing as people puff away..RLD as in that pink light big building near HBF like 10 min walk?
I never walked in there, but there are young stunners? Showers at least? And they do BBBJ and how much is session?
Rogue Nation
04-14-18, 12:08
There's minimum 50% Romanians in the RLD. Houses T32, T36, T26, T34, E44 are full of them. To get the same service as in a FKK you often have to invest the same money per 30 min. Upselling and rip off are more prevalent than at most FKK, hygiene is an issue with many girls. They pay about 150€ rent / day for heir room. So pressure for them to make money is the same as for any other WG.
Another practical idea is, if the American monger is relatively rich, he can buy a lot of american blue-chip stocks or S&P index stock to hedge against weak USD because american blue-chip stocks usually have big percentage of their revenues coming from Europe, If USD is weak against Euro, they will have (or show) more european revenues and profits in USD and more european revenues and profits in USD will factor in their stock prices, consequently their stock prices will rise because of that.S&P index nose-dived in 2008, losing close to half its value. Thats around the time the EUR / USD exchange was least favorable to Americans hitting as high as 1.59.
Maybe I am looking at it wrong too. My pool of money for investments / saving is segregated from the pool of money I allocate for mongering. So any profits via capital gains or dividends stays within that investment / savings pool. I don't funnel that money over to mongering pool, which is essentially liquid and ready to be used.
My pool of money for investments / savings is segregated from the pool of money I allocate for mongering. So any profits via capital gains or dividends stays within that investment / savings pool. I don't funnel that money over to the mongering pool, which is essentially liquid and ready to be used.That's how I prefer to do it too. The mongering fund is liquid cash remaining after I've gone and done the other things I need to do financially. I make sure my bills are paid and my investments made before I get laid (with liquid cash remaining and separate from investments & savings)! Somebody here once asked (I remember who actually) how much money should be spent on mongering. Now what kind of question is that? That's so subjective! The general rules I can say are these. Are all of your bills being paid, and being paid on time? And are you consistently saving enough money each month to fund your future, such as retirement? If so, then once you do those two things financially, what you have left over you can use to monger. Of course, you need to ask a few more questions if you have other considerations such as having to save for a child's education and so on. And the more of those other considerations to account for, probably the less you can afford to be spending that money on mongering.
Member #4581
04-14-18, 14:39
Generally your assets and liabilities should match in terms of duration, risk, and other characteristics. If you think mongering expense is going to be a large part of your future outlay, then perhaps it makes sense to have assets benefiting from Euro appreciation in your portfolio. For individual investors, currency hedging is not a great idea. There are are some international bond ETFs like IGOV and BWX. These are not pure plays on Euro, as they include EM bonds as well, but Europe still dominates I think in that mix. There is still interest rate risk etc, but at least they benefit from local currency appreciation.
Also, you could buy stocks of European companies that are predominantly domestic oriented. Exporters would not be in this category, but regional banks, utilities, telcos, etc could comprise this bucket. Obviously, currency is only a small aspect when it comes to stocks; price decline in local currency might offset whatever you gain from the currency side. The bond ETFs are a safer and easier bet.
Unlike the super mongers here I am at best a part time amateur, so for me mongering expense is a very tiny fraction of my total expenses and I have never done this matching of investments to mongering budgets. I am pretty aggressive in my investments and just go for the maximum return in terms of my home country currency and let the chips fall where they may.
Kosher Kowboy
04-14-18, 14:43
Maybe I am looking at it wrong too. My pool of money for investments / saving is segregated from the pool of money I allocate for mongering. So any profits via capital gains or dividends stays within that investment / savings pool. I don't funnel that money over to mongering pool, which is essentially liquid and ready to be used.
Another practical idea is, if the American monger is relatively rich, he can buy a lot of american blue-chip stocks or S&P index stock to hedge against weak USD because american blue-chip stocks usually have big percentage of their revenues coming from Europe, If USD is weak against Euro, they will have (or show) more european revenues and profits in USD and more european revenues and profits in USD will factor in their stock prices, consequently their stock prices will rise because of that.I do not think you are looking at it wrong at all. There is no universal right or wrong here. From your posts I gather you have a portfolio and you are trying to wisely keep it at its highest level yet also have access to cash from work or wherever to play with without using profits to fund play. Reinvestment of profits is great, it will allow you to have more quality time with beautiful Gyspies over time, they will greatly appreciate how you are investing in their futures!
Bfsie presents an accurate investment strategy that would certainly have merit and be cherished by many portfolio managers more so those recommending a very ' aggressive / growth' strategy. One could make a killing on the power play presented if on the right side of the Euro movement. However, that strategy could also backfire. High returns, high risk. Nothing wrong with that, each investor decides on their strategy and risk they want to take on. This strategy if correct would work for the investor who would make lots of equity and as the adviser Bfsie would also make more money as the higher balance of the portfolio would yield him more of a fee when he takes out his fees each quarter as a percentage of the portfolio balance. Bfsie could than also simply acting as an adviser have more quality time with beautiful Gypsies. Now if the Euro moves the wrong way Bfsie might find himself with a white towel wrapped around his waste eating hot dog soup talking to an American from Texas on a red couch at Day Care.
I am more in the though of ' conservative / growth' and have done very similar to what Bfsie suggests but went the route of mutual funds whose performance over periods of time either matched or outperformed the DOW / S&P. Many of these funds do hold blue chips but some also invest directly in foreign stocks many ironically in Germany others in emerging markets in Asia and the Americas. Less upside than the all blue chip presented by Bfsie but also less downside. However, you could still participate in ' European profits' as your funds would go up.
I think in a nustshell it all comes down to asset diversification based on our individual risk we want to take on. IMO ' How to get Euros the cheapest' will bring in to play where you are pulling the dollars from to buy the Euros. For one guy the answer may be different than the next. If completely diversified how a monger pulls his cash to buy play money for Gyspies may vary year to year as well. In bull markets can skim profits from equity accounts and fly to Germany with crisp 100 and 50 notes and go to Sharks and Oase and play with the classiest and most beautiful Gyspies like ' Evita and Adele' and in bear markets pull from bond accounts (as not to sell an equity while lower) and fly to Germany with 20,10 and 5 notes and go to Dietzenbach and play with ' Elena and Anna' , a far cry from the above E / A pair. All about diversification of assets and Gypsy quality. As for me I can only afford the cheaper E/A duo, I am too poor for the classy duo.
:D
Member #4581
04-14-18, 20:33
Forgot to say, there are also currency ETFs. FXE is a good one for US investors wanting Euro exposure. Just plain and simple Euro exposure, tracks dollar Euro and nothing else.
For example, if you think you are going to spend $10,000 in the next year on mongering denominated in Euro, just buy $10,000 worth of FXE and if dollar loses value, then FXE should gain and you can sell as and when needed and convert to Euro.
Likewise, if dollar appreciates, FXe will decline in value so your original investment in FXE is worth less but those dollars will still purchase the desired number of euros because euro has lost value in this scenario.
There are also many ultra ETFs, such as ULE on the long side and EUO on the short side.
UltraHappy
04-14-18, 23:10
FXE is a good one for US investors wanting Euro exposure. Just plain and simple Euro exposure, tracks dollar Euro and nothing else.
True, but everyone should keep the fees in mind with this one. There's a cost associated with every buy and sell transaction plus the expense fee. Much higher expense than just putting money in a straight Vanguard mutual fund for example. Just something to carefully consider when deciding the best place to park your cash.
Member #4581
04-14-18, 23:44
True, but everyone should keep the fees in mind with this one. There's a cost associated with every buy and sell transaction plus the expense fee. Much higher expense than just putting money in a straight Vanguard mutual fund for example. Just something to carefully consider when deciding the best place to park your cash.Does Vanguard have currency funds or ETFs? I see some international bond funds but not pure currency ETFs on their site. May be I missed them.
Vanguard has expenses in the 0. 1% to 0. 15% range and FXE has 0. 4%. Transaction is cheap these days. Schwab charges $5 these days for example.
I am not pushing any one sepcific fund or ETf; just suggesting that there are a variety of options out there. Upto each individual what to buy and how much risk is acceptable.
Anyway, there was a discussion on how to prepurchase Euros for mongers who frequently visit FKks. FXE was one idea. There are many others.
UltraHappy
04-15-18, 00:32
Vanguard does not have any currency funds or ETFs that I am aware of.
I used FXE through Schwab before to cover myself against increases in the Euro when the Euro was more volatile.
You're right, you have to pay a commission for FXE since it's not a Schwab fund. The commission is only $4. 95. So, if you buy in and and then at some later date you sell all shares, you're out only about $10 in commissions. Not so bad.
You're also right that the expense ratio is only 0. 4% (not so bad but everyone needs to remember that the fund loses this amount of net assets ever year).
But, looking at the spread between the ASK (116.11) and BID (120.67) for this fund, means that for someone who is "investing" $10,000 and then later cashing out said $10,000 a year later, if nothing else changes, you will lose approximately $428, which comes out to roughly 4. 3% of your investment (mostly due to the difference between the ASK and the BID, that is, $377 but also adding in the $10 in commissions and about $40 loss in performance of the fund due to the annual fee).
So, unless I'm mistaken with my math, the cost of hedging against an increase of the Euro for $10,000 is a hefty annual fee of 4. 3% or $428. In other words, in this scenario, the Euro has to rise 4. 3% within that year just to break even with the fees involved here.
When I first started using the FXE fund, I didn't appreciate how much all of these fees added up. Now, I figure I'm better off just investing in normal low cost funds.
Tell me if I've loused up the math here or if you have any better suggestions for Euro hedging.
Does Vanguard have currency funds or ETFs? I see some international bond funds but not pure currency ETFs on their site. May be I missed them.
Vanguard has expenses in the 0. 1% to 0. 15% range and FXE has 0. 4%. Transaction is cheap these days. Schwab charges $5 these days for example.
I am not pushing any one sepcific fund or ETf; just suggesting that there are a variety of options out there. Upto each individual what to buy and how much risk is acceptable.
Anyway, there was a discussion on how to prepurchase Euros for mongers who frequently visit FKks. FXE was one idea. There are many others.
Member #4581
04-15-18, 03:41
Hi UH,
I am not sure — Am I missing the bid / ask spread being so large?
In the following factsheet, it says the spread is much smaller at 0. 01%. I saw other sites on FXE as well showing the spread being much smaller than your numbers.
https://www.xtf.com/ETF-Factsheets/FXE
I will say however, that if the spread is indeed as large as you think, it would make FXE quite unattractive. I am skeptical of that though it is a well traded product, used by many fund managers. Generally, large bid ask spreads happen when there is not a lot of trading liquidity. I can check this on Bloomberg and let you know for sure.
I have personally never used it. As I said, I don't believe in separate buckets of money. My FKK related expenses are anyway quite small as I don't attend as much as you guys do. The only one of those currency related products I ever invested in was EUO which I went long 5 years ago or so when I was quite negative on Euro and EUO was a good vehicle to short Euro. I don't remember what the spread on EUo was, but I think it was quite small.
If you think Euro will appreciate, you can short EUO.
I have explored Frankfurt RLD. Not bad. A short walk from the Hauptbanhof. Yes, some stair climbing, but a choice of young 20's from Spain, Poland, Italy, Hungary and Germany. Not that many Romianians. Probably not likely that they are from any of those countries. Not any more likely than the stories you here from FKK girls anyway. The walk up the stairs create an interesting dilemma. On one hand, you benefit from the cardiovascular warm up. On the other hand, you develop what's called swamp ass, sweaty dampness in the intimate regions.
The Romanians are so concentrated in the FKK clubs that I am starting to wonder if they are somehow part of an organised scheme. I don't think I met a single non-Romanian at the several clubs I visted in different cities and countries. Many girls lie about being Romanian or claim to be Moldvian. So the clubs are filled with cigarette smoke (or still smokey even with a leaky smoking room), noisy, and the girls sharky and wanting to seal the deal in the least amount of time and upsell. The clubs make out like they are exclusive, but at the core dress up a RLD with some spas and so-so food (though the Wellkum club is excellent, but has the same passive smoking thing). You need to wash your hair at the end because you and your gown smell of cigarette smoke. Almost all offer bare back blow job and maybe kissing for extra. The reality is that kissing a girl who has had 10 cocks explode in her mouth that night is not the most appetising of experiences. The FKK girls are mostly scheming and all business. Oase is full of hookahs glowing as people puff away.It's practically common knowledge that there is an organized scheme ran by a collection of lover boys, pimps, and organized crime units. Oase is very Romanian heavy, but you definitely met Hungarians and Bulgarians at Wellcum.
You make it sound like building spa facilities and providing food for the entire day for hundreds of men is an easy feat, completely disregarding the organization and operational work that this involves.
As for kissing and intimacy, does it make a difference whether 10 guys exploded in a girl's mouth prior to you in an FKK versus 2-3 loads of cum in the RLD?
That is an interesting side note: smoking is strongly correlated with addictive behaviour and brain reward centres. You have to wonder about us and the girls and what percentage are smokers.The same biological reward center is involved in cumming. Then again so is winning and achievement.
In summary: FKK's are noisy, smokey and have about 95% up-selling Romainians cruising like sharks. I am not saying all Romanians are like that, just the ones that seems to be mass imported by some hidden scheme that places them in the FKKS. They have pools and spas and a buffet. At the end though, they are smoke filled noisy brothels. Once you factor in sunk cost entrance fees, up-selling costs to get decent service, lung damage from 7 or more hours of breathing in smoke, hearing damage from noise, and EUR50-120 for each pop (in Romanian definition, bored looking girls lying there like a starfish, no kissing, short machine gun blowjob and then insisting you come as fast as you can), it starts to feel like a sausage factory (literally as well as figuratively). They know most guys will have 2. 6 pops. Most girls screw about 7 -10 men on a shift.You praised FKKs on this very board 2 weeks ago as a place for men to commune and enjoy the fruits of the female body. But one bad visit prompted this complete 180 in attitude. Is it that you learned so much and objectively crafted this revelatory rebuking manifesto or perhaps this manifesto comes from an experience where you experienced damage to your ego.
RLDs allow the girls more freedom of when they want to work, some share a room (thus lowering the overhead), they do not have to parade around etc. That is why the RLDs are cheaper, Frankfurt being an extreme case. Girls sharing a room break even after just two customers.
Most FKK girls have freedom of when they want to work. Some FKKs have more of a program than others.
Sharks and Oase girls also break even with 2 clients. NRW girls break even after one. Girls at Sharks, Oceans, and Acapulco are pretty much subjected to no rules, coming and going as the please. Most other clubs just ask for professionalism and to be service oriented. Only a handful of clubs treat the girls like employees or even soldiers.
Rogue Nation
04-15-18, 17:44
The Romanians are so concentrated in the FKK clubs that I am starting to wonder if they are somehow part of an organised scheme. I don't think I met a single non-Romanian at the several clubs I visted in different cities and countries. Many girls (Romanian and non Romanian) have started their "career" in the RLDs in Germany or Amsterdam. So much for the organized scheme in FKK clubs (only). For sure supplies to the Western European P6 scene are organized. Something many mongers don't want to hear of to face.
Funnily enough I spoke to a girl yesterday that worked in the Duisburg RLD for a week. Her main reason to leave was the many Romanian mem walking around with business like intentions. She liked the freedom to just muck about on youtube instead of waiting for clients, but when I told her about the new law about sleeping arrangements, she immediately exclaimed that this would make the whole RLD thing an immediate no go. The emptiness of Duisburg RLD has been an ongoing issue since the start of the year (widely discussed on local forums). The Police even closed down one of the houses (I am not sure if it reopened yet). Because of girls sleeping in their rooms, boys under 18 walking around and a lack of permits for the gambling machines the Optimist referred to.
What Phalus's post is concerned, the moment someone gets excited about the refreshing amount of other nationalities like Spain an Italy. You know everything that follows should be taken with a grain of salt at best. Gut a chuckle out of me here and there though.
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