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Interesting discussion about FKKs and prostitution in the USA. I was in California last year on business and I signed up with a sugar daddy website as I heard its a big thing I the States. Within hours of signing up I was getting numbers of beautiful college girls who were willing to be my 'companion' for an evening or the weekend. I decided to go with one girl, an art student in San Francisco, about 20, a 8 by FKK standards, for 300's for the evening. After chatting on Whatsapp we went for dinner at a vegan restaurant, she was one of those hippy types! And then back to my hotel room where we called in room service and I was shocked when alcohol was not allowed to be ordered as part of it! So I popped down to the local store and bought a bottle of Veuve Clicquot champagne and ordered in sushi using Uber food service to my hotel room..So this sugar daddy site do have real photos of beauty, if so I want to go and monger in California, I do prefer USA as destination than Germany, so if the site is as good as FKK quality of girls, then I want to try out.
Polyamorist
07-18-18, 22:13
But the FKK concept is not as dependent on economic inequality as many here assume. FKK Atlantis had a roaring business long before Romania joined the EU, and before that Bernds was doing well off local girls.
It is. That were times (15 years ago) when there were few clubs in Germany, 50 EUR were still worth something and when average income in Poland, Czech and Hungary was a lot lower than now. So girls came to Atlantis and German FKKs. And German girls were still seeing it as a good income. Economy was roaring, many guys spent a lot of money on girls. Many girls were making 2 k or more per day.Hamdulillah Sayyid Nation. There is much greater economic inequality in the US than in Germany. So, by narrow reasoning, there ought to be much better sexual relations between men and women in the US than in Germany. In fact, the opposite is true, and Germany is where FKKs first flourished. I say again: it is not about economics, it is about ideologies. And especially good will and tolerance for alternative lifestyles.
Interesting discussion about FKKs and prostitution in the USA. I was in California last year on business and I signed up with a sugar daddy website as I heard its a big thing I the States. Within hours of signing up I was getting numbers of beautiful college girls who were willing to be my 'companion' for an evening or the weekend. I decided to go with one girl, an art student in San Francisco, about 20, a 8 by FKK standards, for 300's for the evening. After chatting on Whatsapp we went for dinner at a vegan restaurant, she was one of those hippy types! And then back to my hotel room where we called in room service and I was shocked when alcohol was not allowed to be ordered as part of it! So I popped down to the local store and bought a bottle of Veuve Clicquot champagne and ordered in sushi using Uber food service to my hotel room.
After drinking we fucked, including BBBJ and anal, DFK and then had sushi in bed. The girl slept in my bed and left early in the morning. All for 300 dollars.
I think it's the new 'normal' in dating and will be become increasingly so with the year 2000 born and laters.
Good for you Sybarite, but can you remember being 20 years old and finding it hard to find a date in college. What were all the beautiful girls doing? Fucking fifty years olds. Why would they bother with a brokeass 20-year old when they could get $500-1000 for a day with an experienced guy.
Would I want a son of mine to grow up in this kind of environment, deprived of female company in his most lustful years? Would you?
The educated here may ponder when the Yuan and Greenback are seen as the worthless symbols they are. Water, food, oil and sex will be the real currency. Even land is mostly worthless without the financial instruments that monetizes it and the economy. Compare Detroit say 1960 and 2018. Shanghai was a village in 1984. Traditional hydrocarbon based 1 person to 1 car is already soon be obsolete, and eventually women will demand the right to sell whatever they have to sell openly. I would not be so sure. The alcohol prohibition ended. The drug prohibition is slowly ending or unenforceable and hookers I think will be next. The need to get money flowing is the same reason gambling is OK. Hooker spend locally. Las Vegas money is sent straight to Wall Street and from there to feckless capital markets.
Uber for pussy. Searchable ratings, geolocation, reliable money exchange and no need for pimps.Also sex in AI virtual reality environment with some kind of robot will be kicking in soon, taking masturbation to whole next level.
Member #4581
07-18-18, 23:10
Hamdulillah Sayyid Nation. There is much greater economic inequality in the US than in Germany. So, by narrow reasoning, there ought to be much better sexual relations between men and women in the US than in Germany. In fact, the opposite is true, and Germany is where FKKs first flourished. I say again: it is not about economics, it is about ideologies. And especially good will and tolerance for alternative lifestyles.
?There are not many German girls either in FKKs.
The disparity is between Germany and other EU members, especially Romania and Bulgaria. Poland and Czech Republic are poorer than Your favorite Alabama and Arkansas but now the FKKs don't even have many Polish or Czech girls.
I seriously think many mongers here are detached from reality (I am not talking about you, Sayyid Poly). People here seem to think that if a girl is poor enough, she is willing to prostitute. I dont think many guys here (when they were young and had little money) were willing to fuck fat old ladies for 50 bucks; but for some reason they think the mental and emotional calculus is drastically different for women.
There are indeed many girls who are willing to fuck for money (lucky for us) but many many more who will not.
Kosher Kowboy
07-18-18, 23:50
I dont think many guys here (when they were young and had little money) were willing to fuck fat old ladies for 50 bucks.There is at least one :D
There are not many German girls either in FKKs.I wish there were more, I guess will have to hunt harder, I give myself an " F" for that. However, the handful I have had the pleasure of meeting all fall in to my top 10 sessions since I started going, easily. Some even served it up ' Gypsy Style. ' My sessions with German girls have always been great, not sure why.
Either way, I am happy.
Pahllus Maximus
07-19-18, 01:01
Polyamorist may have hit the nail on the head. The US seems to me to be a federation of many tribes barracking whether sports teams, political parties and especially labels like rig / left anti and pro life etc. This is also very shrill and many have a strong tendency to get the state involved to further whatever cause they have by laws. And to that a large dollop of puritanism, denial and hypocrisy. And this is probably the key factor, irrational ideological tribalism. Yet that (eventually) gives way to the real idol of the USA, money and greed. Wall Street and Washington is the real story. So is the rust belt of offshoring for a quick labor cost arbitrage play. The growth in casinos and gambling are a case in point. Or the utterly destructive short term oil wildcatters that have more or less destroyed the Dakotas and other parts of the country with highly toxic chemical or even radioactive isotopes. They privatize the hoped for oil profits and socialize the pollution. This actually screwed up those states land for short term cash donations etc. Paper. Rock. Scissors. Laws, Ideology and Money. Money controls laws and trumps in the end. But yeah, Takedown is right, P4P prolly not in our mongering lifetime. Religious nut jobs and ignorance is politically too powerful.
So yeah, in the usual way people change the wine bottle label but it is still the same bottle. So sugar daddies is the new backpage, but still a lot of skulking around and talking vaguely in case of LE sticking their noses into men and women wanting to carry out the most central and basic biological imperative of nature. Unless shimmied within a narrow set of sanctioned conditions heavily biased to the lock in contract of economic household formation and female fertility of 2. 1 economic units for the purposes of consumption and payment of taxes. The age of consent is yet another restriction. And so on. I assuming reasonable levels of consent and civility here. So we pretend rather than confront the real issue of why there are so many shrill, warring tribes desperate to use the legislature to impose their will on others. For example, on this site, Jackson is having headwinds with payment thanks to the latest shrill knee jerk reaction of stopping P4P, something our president knows plenty about but signed into law.
Germany has the same end goal, but does not feel the need to have cops intruding into peoples lives over a shag. One is tempted to say Germany learned the hard way where ideology and lack of tolerance leads too.
The upshot is, being able to engage in business, access to capital, expression of ourselves in religion, sex, politics and lifestyle without state surveillance and jack booted thugs or crony capitalism is core to where to live. Germany has a pretty good balance. A partial list of the places to avoid as at 2018 are Poland, Hungary, USA, Russia, Iran and Iraq and North Korea and China. I would sadly add to that Australia and Canada that are fast heading towards repression and a rigged capital / tax system. Canada just adopted the Nordic model and is selling out to dark money. The UK is borderline. France is a trainwreck for many reasons. This is not happy news, it is a tragedy.
As for the best balance (development, laws, safety) Germany, Netherlands, Japan are good. Spain too. Thailand OK but has a bit too much crony capitalism IMHO. Most of the Scandinavian countries are good provide you don't do P4 P. Italy is also OK but is currently sexually repressive. Our lot needs to keep our money and tax planning international like corporations but also our lifestyle and sexual expression to countries that respect poeples' freedom of operation.
As for the best balance (development, laws, safety) Germany, Netherlands, Japan are good. Spain too. Thailand OK but has a bit too much crony capitalism IMHO. Most of the Scandinavian countries are good provide you don't do P4 P. Italy is also OK but is currently sexually repressive. Our lot needs to keep our money and tax planning international like corporations but also our lifestyle and sexual expression to countries that respect poeples' freedom of operation.I would involve some Scandinavian nations in those nations you mentioned too, taxes are too much, but I do see hope in their ideal, though it does not work as their ideal itself, but pragmatic practical organization and implementation can be figured out by Germany and Japan, who are good at implementing ideas into reality and keep revising it to better realistic format with promptness.
It is. That were times (15 years ago) when there were few clubs in Germany, 50 EUR were still worth something and when average income in Poland, Czech and Hungary was a lot lower than now. So girls came to Atlantis and German FKKs. And German girls were still seeing it as a good income. Economy was roaring, many guys spent a lot of money on girls. Many girls were making 2 k or more per day.
Were the WGs who were making "2 K or more per day" still happy to 50 EUR /30 min sessions? 2 K would be lots of sessions, lots of extras, or very generous tipping.
"2 K per day" in 2003 is probably more than what top WGs make in 2018 both in nominal and real terms (adjusted for inflation €2,544.27). So if true, customers on average paid better. There were more whales in 2003.
The idea that mongers paid better in the past is echoed by two German WGs I spoke to recently. One is a MILF who was actually active in 2003. She knows first-hand how good customers were back then. However, we can also say that the reason she was paid better in 2003 was due to her being younger and prettier. The other WG is mid-20's and above-average in terms of popularity, but she tells me her mother was a WG and she grew up knowing other WGs.
Good for you Sybarite, but can you remember being 20 years old and finding it hard to find a date in college. What were all the beautiful girls doing? Fucking fifty years olds. Why would they bother with a brokeass 20-year old when they could get $500-1000 for a day with an experienced guy.On a Saturday night in just about any major city in the world, one can go out and see 20 year olds girls flirting with (and presumably fucking) broke ass 20 year old guys. To make money with a 50 year old, that requires maybe one night a week of effort and maybe a few text messages during the week.
I signed up with a sugar daddy website as I heard its a big thing I the States. Within hours of signing up I was getting numbers of beautiful college girls who were willing to be my 'companion' for an evening or the weekend. I decided to go with one girl, an art student in San Francisco, about 20, a 8 by FKK standards, for 300's for the evening.
After drinking we fucked, including BBBJ and anal, DFK and then had sushi in bed. The girl slept in my bed and left early in the morning. All for 300 dollars.
Thats better price than German FKK! People here have reported that those sugar daddy sites have been infiltrated by veteran WGs, but I can't imagine a veteran WG that knows the market rates would charge such a lower price.
The widely accepted definition for sugar babe that I have always heard is a girl that sleeps with only a few sugar daddies at any one time. Her price may be $1000 a night, but it is not offered to everyone. She's looking for networking opportunities as well. So in your case, your art college sugar babe may have been looking for someone who is influential in the world of art.
You can find plenty of German working girls if you know where to look.
Polyamorist may have hit the nail on the head. The US seems to me to be a federation of many tribes barracking whether sports teams, political parties and especially labels like rig / left anti and pro life etc. This is also very shrill and many have a strong tendency to get the state involved to further whatever cause they have by laws. And to that a large dollop of puritanism, denial and hypocrisy. And this is probably the key factor, irrational ideological tribalism. Yet that (eventually) gives way to the real idol of the USA, money and greed. Wall Street and Washington is the real story. So is the rust belt of offshoring for a quick labor cost arbitrage play. The growth in casinos and gambling are a case in point. Or the utterly destructive short term oil wildcatters that have more or less destroyed the Dakotas and other parts of the country with highly toxic chemical or even radioactive isotopes. They privatize the hoped for oil profits and socialize the pollution. This actually screwed up those states land for short term cash donations etc. Paper. Rock. Scissors. Laws, Ideology and Money. Money controls laws and trumps in the end. But yeah, Takedown is right, P4P prolly not in our mongering lifetime. Religious nut jobs and ignorance is politically too powerful..In Canada prostitution still flourishes in parts of Canada (Ontario and Quebec). Denmark is the only Scandinavia country with an active sex scene.
Rogue Nation
07-19-18, 07:01
Were the WGs who were making "2 K or more per day" still happy to 50 EUR /30 min sessions? 2 K would be lots of sessions, lots of extras, or very generous tipping.2 k / day wouldn't be 50€ sessions only. That's a combination of long bookings and extras plus standard 50€ rooms with good service.
Pahllus Maximus
07-19-18, 14:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-q30cMxRgQ
Be warned of loose women. There are also moral diseases. May God bless all of our accursed kind and our sin (snicker).
One is tempted to say Germany learned the hard way where ideology and lack of tolerance leads too.Yes, this is it I think. Something catastrophic shaking America to its very core would have to occur in order for the American people to lighten up and open the door to legalized prostitution nationwide. Not likely to pass in my lifetime. But still, I know that I lived during one of the world's golden ages of prostitution. Maybe the best ever for men with the means to zip around the globe via air travel.
You can find plenty of German working girls if you know where to look.
In Canada prostitution still flourishes in parts of Canada (Ontario and Quebec). Denmark is the only Scandinavia country with an active sex scene.I don't know. There is prostitution all over Scandinavia, but most of the women only take local men. Except on Iceland I think where it is a bit out of hand. Actually more prostitution across Scandinavia now than it was before that Nordic model arrived.
Member #4581
07-19-18, 22:09
I completely agree with your skepticism that FKK clubs will come into existence in USA in my lifetime. Pistons says 30 years. Who knows. That is so far away and not in my mongering lifetime, that is for sure.
Sugar daddy sites are a hit and miss. First, membership costs $70 or $80 a month, and some sites charge per message which can also run up into big amounts if you are talking to multiple girls. Many girls can be flaky, take time to respond, and are less attractive in person than in their photos. You have to pay for the hotel in addition to the allowance. Some girls do per meet allowance but many don't and expect an ongoing allowance. Per meet allowance is nothing more than money for sex and then you are not on any safer ground as far as LE is concerned — to save their own skin, the sugar daddy sites actually discourage per meet allowance. Skill sets vary — some may give BBBJ, some give bad BJ because they are just not skilled, some may allow DFK and DATY and some might not everything is negotiable. And you can't do 3 some, public sex, and ofcourse can't fuck 6 girls one after other for 8 days in a row as Yama Yama does.
I think sugar daddy sites fill a niche but if you are addicted to FKK, USA has no ready substitute.
One more thing given the location across the pond, the only low income immigrants who are available are from LatAm and Central America, and if you are looking for that Caucasian look there is no such supply. And with Trump, not even the Latinos are coming/allowed to come. Just have to hope that those corn fed booties from Nebraska and Oklahoma will become so poor and wanting to sell themselves for a 50. Not gonna happen, not in the numbers we want.
Very interesting stories. I am sure all of these USA Ladies can't wait for there to be an FKK in the USA where they can live where they work, walk around naked the entire time, and get $50, $100, $150 or so a session, fuck several different guys during the long shift, and hope the guy she just fucked says good things about her to the other guys on the floor.
I can't believe this was really a topic. The German FKKs work due to a convergence of low-income women from Eastern Europe who face a weak local market for their services in their home countries, and the close proximity of Germany and its acceptance of immigrant labor. It works well in Germany and the surrounding countries, but doesn't export well.
North America and other parts of Western Europe have a fine system of commercial sex. It is just expensive. Guys who can't, or won't, pay the market prices are certainly free to travel to much lower cost places, including Germany and South America. Many US guys on the east coast choose to travel to Montreal and a lot of Californians do Tijuana. A lot of guys do a little of everything. They occasionally monger in their home markets, and certainly look forward to business and vacation trips to lower cost locales.
Really folks, what would be the advantage of big FKKs in the USA? Nothing is stopping a USA Guy from answering the multitudes of sex worker ads and sugar baby in the USA Reasonable screening and research can assure both parties that law enforcement is not involved. Does the government really need to approve a great big facility and give a stamp of approval for sex? Should the USA Government really allow female temporary workers from very low-income countries to work at the hypothetical US FKKs to keep the prices low so that a low-income guy can get affordable sex without traveling?
I just can't get myself to think that way.
Yes, this is it I think. Something catastrophic shaking America to its very core would have to occur in order for the American people to lighten up and open the door to legalized prostitution nationwide. Not likely to pass in my lifetime. But still, I know that I lived during one of the world's golden ages of prostitution. Maybe the best ever for men with the means to zip around the globe via air travel.I think it could catch on like legalized marijuana. First a couple more locations, maybe Portland, Seatle, Atlantic City. Then once the revenue starts being realized others will follow. I picked random cities that are known for leaning forward on liberal concepts that currently have robust illegal sex trades.
I think that the first step in the process is to identify how prevalent illegal prostitution is in a given area and then marketing the fact that legalized controlled prostitution is safer for the WGs and the Johns. Implementing required safety briefings, health checks, onsite security, controls for illegal drugs, etc. Are all methods used in other countries that have drastically reduced transmission of diseases and violent crimes against those involved as providers or clients.
Agree. Although there may be interesting times ahead. As a robotic specialist, I can see that pretty interesting female looking robots may become available in about 20-25 years (my guess). So those might be also very interesting times. Barely in my lifetime though. I don't think if I am 75+ I will care about this stuff.
Yes, this is it I think. Something catastrophic shaking America to its very core would have to occur in order for the American people to lighten up and open the door to legalized prostitution nationwide. Not likely to pass in my lifetime. But still, I know that I lived during one of the world's golden ages of prostitution. Maybe the best ever for men with the means to zip around the globe via air travel.
Yes, this is it I think. Something catastrophic shaking America to its very core would have to occur in order for the American people to lighten up and open the door to legalized prostitution nationwide. Not likely to pass in my lifetime. But still, I know that I lived during one of the world's golden ages of prostitution. Maybe the best ever for men with the means to zip around the globe via air travel.Canabbis took about over 40 years to legalize in USA and it is happening slowly now, so prostitution got some hopes.
Only cons is that with all these movement of me too, feminists getting stronger etc, prostitution may have long way to go.
As long as there are countries with downside of economy, there always will be prostitution with legalize format, I just hope it is as good as in Germany or as reported in Brazil format where both clients and girls are both reasonably safe.
https://youtu.be/eIlmbUbiGxM
Old but still so funny. And not that much has changed.
One more thing given the location across the pond, the only low income immigrants who are available are from LatAm and Central America, and if you are looking for that Caucasian look there is no such supply. And with Trump, not even the Latinos are coming/allowed to come. Just have to hope that those corn fed booties from Nebraska and Oklahoma will become so poor and wanting to sell themselves for a 50. Not gonna happen, not in the numbers we want.I honestly believe there are enough women living below the poverty level in the US now that a large variety could be found in clubs if prostitution was legalized. There are plenty of young women working minimum wage jobs at McDonald's, Burger King, Hooters, etc. That I'm sure would jump at the possibility of earning $100 per hour if it was legal. It would, however, cause a huge negative impact on strip clubs. A Hungarian lady friend of mine who worked as a stripper in Italy always said, "there is no money working as a stripper in countries where prostitution is legalized".
Smoke Light
07-20-18, 19:24
Canabbis took about over 40 years to legalize in USA and it is happening slowly now, so prostitution got some hopes.
Only cons is that with all these movement of me too, feminists getting stronger etc, prostitution may have long way to go.
As long as there are countries with downside of economy, there always will be prostitution with legalize format, I just hope it is as good as in Germany or as reported in Brazil format where both clients and girls are both reasonably safe.I think grassroots movement toward prostitution legalisation in the US is gaining popularity each year (or at least not completely losing its ground), but the process is painstakingly slow. Another example: according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce the divorce was relatively recently legalized in countries such as Italy (1970), Portugal (1975), Brazil (1977), Spain (1981), Argentina (1987), Paraguay (1991), Colombia (1991), Andorra (1995), Ireland (1996), Chile (2004) and Malta (2011). WTF?! Perhaps another 50 years to see one of the states besides Nevada legalizing P4P. Not in my lifetime.
I think grassroots movement toward prostitution legalisation in the US is gaining popularity each year (or at least not completely losing its ground), but the process is painstakingly slow. Another example: according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce the divorce was relatively recently legalized in countries such as Italy (1970), Portugal (1975), Brazil (1977), Spain (1981), Argentina (1987), Paraguay (1991), Colombia (1991), Andorra (1995), Ireland (1996), Chile (2004) and Malta (2011). WTF?! Perhaps another 50 years to see one of the states besides Nevada legalizing P4P. Not in my lifetime.I think if we are to dig deeper, I sometimes feel that prostitution is not just sensitive topic, but also related strongly indirectly to population pyramid of the country, so it is matter of national security.
I know some really do believe marriage and sex is different, yes in part I agree and I understand where that set mindset comes from to glorify marriage.
But what I always meant is that, if sex with young beautiful girls are easy to access for us men, then many of men will begin to think why marry to end this sexual paradise that we have. Because most wives will not tolerate their husbands going to FKK freely exception of very few. So if prostitution is totally legalized and organized as German FKK or even better. Then many men will not marry as that provide access to good or even best sex life men can dream for. So marriage in major part become just companionship mainly. You know the point I am trying to convey here?
Also on top of that, me too movement and feminist movement stronger as we advance into future is not good thing to legalize prostitution as usually these people want to abolish it completely and will not even listen to debate about how federal control decrease women abuse in brothel. It is extreme thinking, they want to abolish the whole thing as they like to put a side the fact that we men need sex preferably with our dream young beauty girls that we can change quite often, plus preferably blow job with two girls at a same time or get our ass licked etc. They do not understand that we men need our rimjob sometimes wives do not understand that too LOL, so we need FKK LOL. But some normal girls are nice, I had girlfriends who did rimjob though, now she is happily married to a banker and has a kid, I often see her photos with her new family on facebook and it make me smile that she is happy and also laugh at her husband LOL.
At least pragmatic Germany gave us FKK formats and other german speaking part, so let us enjoy that hoping other nations will join in. I wonder why German speaking part tend to be more kinky though because they tend to give me image that these guys are very serious people as a society, I guess it is a rebound of being so serious that they need to take some stress out in form of sex? LOL.
I hope netherland and hopefully some other nations like in scandinavia will implement FKK format, I mean they are more sexually open and in some states prostitution is legalized, and they are flexible society, so we got more hope in those europe region than USA. In USA, you can shoot bullet from guns when you turn old enough, but cannot shoot sperm from your penis guns LOL.
Rogue Nation
07-21-18, 14:36
I don't know. There is prostitution all over Scandinavia, but most of the women only take local men. Except on Iceland I think where it is a bit out of hand. Actually more prostitution across Scandinavia now than it was before that Nordic model arrived.Is there any serious source for this claim? Or is it just the world as seen by Pistons?
Kosher Kowboy
07-22-18, 17:31
= Iceland I think where it is a bit out of hand. =.Any suggestions on where to look here in Reykjavik or are you saying it is a ghost town for tutes? I have 2-3 trips planned to see my family in the DC / BALT area and there are a few airlines that fly to Europe for the price of a can of coke and a snickers bar and the flights are short. They allow you free layover up to 7 days and I would be interested in staying a night on the inbound or the return if any action even for hotel outcall is there. Layovers can be 2-4 hours same day so I might choose to just stay the night than on to wherever. I always thought Iceland was a hooker graveyard but maybe I am incorrect.
Der Auslander
07-22-18, 17:47
I always thought Iceland was a hooker graveyard but maybe I am incorrect.Bring a shovel and you can dig her up!
Also bring sandwiches as a burger and fries costs about US $25.
:D
Kosher Kowboy
07-22-18, 18:01
Bring a shovel and you can dig her up!
Also bring sandwiches as a burger and fries costs about US $25.
:DNo shovel, I hate work, that is what landscapers are for!
These airlines are dirtballs, charge you for your seats, your bags, no food unless you pay; they probably have one dollar coin slots to feed in order to use the toilets. Guess no Iceland, it's cheaper to Amtrak to NYC and go from there direct and land at a good time.
That was the quickest trip to Iceland ever!!
Der Auslander
07-22-18, 18:15
Evidently prostitution is an issue in Iceland!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Iceland
Not sure if that means they now have one hundred or one thousand hookers!
Given the cost of living in Iceland, I would imagine a very expensive hobby in that part of the world!
Kosher Kowboy
07-22-18, 18:24
Evidently prostitution is an issue in Iceland!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Iceland
Not sure if that means they now have one hundred or one thousand hookers!
Given the cost of living in Iceland, I would imagine a very expensive hobby in that part of the world!These Airlines suck, reports on them are worse than Siri's reports out of Dietzenbach and no M&M's are served either. Siri, if you meet me at Day Care I would be so honored that I will pay your entry and bring a box of Godiva's for you and upgrade your desserts as I know the French are quite proud of their after meal servings. Consider it a free gift from America in exchange for our President being so rude to your leader :D
Still of interest though, can take a hit for one night.
Forget about the payable scene in Iceland. Prostitution (supply side) is heavily fuelled by poverty and with this tiny community (<500 k) relative workable population, and limited immigration theres simply not enough poverty to make this scene on offer.
Imagine Germany on the contrary, with an estimate of 10 kk below powerty line PLuSS «uncontrolled» immigration no wonder a few % feels tempted using this opportunity short or longer for quick bucks.
Just think about all dirt in this scene in certain asian countries, certainly don't happen in the wealthier parts.
These Airlines suck, reports on them are worse than Siri's reports out of Dietzenbach and no M&M's are served either. Siri, if you meet me at Day Care I would be so honored that I will pay your entry and bring a box of Godiva's for you and upgrade your desserts as I know the French are quite proud of their after meal servings. Consider it a free gift from America in exchange for our President being so rude to your leader :D
Still of interest though, can take a hit for one night.
https://www.idunn.no/oslo_law_review/2017/02/the_swedish_sex_purchase_act_where_does_it_stand
Seems like the effects on number of prostitutes is debatable to say the least.
Mongerer88
07-22-18, 21:57
Just a general observation, not intended to be hostile. But one thing I noticed in the discussion of whether there might someday be a US FKK and what it would be like is that guys who go to FKKs on a consistent basis analyze things from a standpoint of large establishments that operate legally. That really makes it difficult for a lot of guys to really appreciate the extent of the "underground sex work market" in many countries. When guys on the FKK Lounge area discuss prostitution in other countries, they focus on strip joints because they have fixed addresses and can be found. But that is a very small part of the overall scene when the larger independent escort world is factored in.
Someone pointed out that the USA Is estimated to have one million prostitutes. I suspect that is a reasonable number, perhaps a bit exaggerated. But one poster suggested that if there was an American FKK, perhaps some Hooters waitresses might work there instead. I kind of think that some Hooters waitresses who are willing to sell some sex on the side have in fact caught on to the idea of exchanging cell phone numbers and email addresses with some favorite select customers and arranging some private transactions. I complimented the poster who shared the Sugar Baby experiences because it illustrated how the market works in many countries. Ads are found, reviews are searched (although both are more difficult now as the industry adapts to the Fosta / Sesta cyclone of shit, but there are still plenty of ad and review boards in existence, even some brand new ones established offshore), some level of screening occurs so that both parties can be sure no cops are involved, and ultimately a transaction takes place in a completely private setting and everyone is happy.
The nature of this "underground" system throughout most of the world makes it very difficult to measure. There are plenty of ads in the Nordic countries, so who knows how many of them are answered and how many transactions take place. We don't know, and neither does the person trying to write this scholarly piece on the effect of the Nordic Model. It just can't be easily quantified like FKK transactions can.
Some would argue that these independent escort models are the best because it eliminates any middleman and lets the ladies better choose their rates, working hours and customers. Others would argue that having everyone do this in a big fixed-place facility increases safety. Both arguments have merits.
But I think it is very difficult for guys who frequent FKKs to really appreciate how the scene works in other countries or really appreciate how prevalent sex work is in other countries with more of an independent escort scene.
Is there any serious source for this claim? Or is it just the world as seen by Pistons?I see no conflict between your two sentences. LOL.
I know far more than what you can find in studies or on the internet. But I don't feel like writing about it here. The market is not very homogeneous, and is quite diverse. But overall given equal spending power, the amount of girls went up after the Nordic model arrived, and their age went down.
I suppose the Nordic market is also quite affected by pan-European prostitution anyway, so the boundaries are much weaker between the Nordics and Germany, UK or even Spain than you'd think.
But still, not many locals who are not drug addicts does it openly through ads. Or the ones that does, do it through sugar daddy sites due to cultural / political stigma. However, if society had deemed it fine, it would have exploded. The liberal undertones are already in place in some areas, because religion is 90% dead. So even the feminists (late stranglers left after the religious generations) are fighting against the clock. That is my impression at least.
Member #4581
07-23-18, 03:07
Yes, there is obviously plenty of underground prostitution in the US (ex NV). This is the oldest profession in the world, it exists in every country and society -- I bet even in those harsh Islamic ones where they chop off hands and stone to death if caught (and the ones usually caught are the ones with no political protection). But the American guys posting here do know that prostitution is all around us -- backpage, craiglist, sugar daddy sites, escort section in yellow pages and other cheap mags, seedy part of the town where you see drugged out girls seeking drivers at stop lights, strip clubs, high end escort and porn star webpages, and the clubs where Elliott Spitzer and his ilk go, and everything in between. No law can ever kill prostitution -- no more than it can kill human urges. What it does in the US is make discussion difficult, and removes transparency -- girls can't discover guys easily, and vice versa, pricing is opaque, and it is all in shadows. For the most part, the American dudes frequenting FKKs are law abiding citizens -- and McA is right, also likely to be upper middle class. So, rather than get into any trouble w / LE, they fly 9 hrs to a foreign land at great expense and indulge in this hobby in a legal fashion. That said, FKK clubs are such an ingenious system; their attraction is not just the legality, and they keep drawing guys in -- once smitten twice addicted.
Any suggestions on where to look here in Reykjavik or are you saying it is a ghost town for tutes? I have 2-3 trips planned to see my family in the DC / BALT area and there are a few airlines that fly to Europe for the price of a can of coke and a snickers bar and the flights are short. They allow you free layover up to 7 days and I would be interested in staying a night on the inbound or the return if any action even for hotel outcall is there. Layovers can be 2-4 hours same day so I might choose to just stay the night than on to wherever. I always thought Iceland was a hooker graveyard but maybe I am incorrect.From what I know from the rest of the Nordics, most escorts only goes with locals. Not sure if that applies to Iceland, but given the size of Reykjavik, I wouldn't chance on it.
Jnpr30. I found your impressionistic post incredibly evocative and helpful in understanding places like the US.
Interestingly what you say is in line with the only thing the source I referred to about the Nordic model was sure about. Criminalisation reduces, (in nordic countries where use of prostitutes is criminalised,) prostitute use by married men: as you say, men with jobs and a settled life are going to fly to countries where they will not get a criminal record and be barred from work due to being a sex offender.
Pistons. It is interesting what you say about non homogenous market, and your impression of numbers going up.
Pistons. It is interesting what you say about non homogenous market, and your impression of numbers going up.I read that study you linked, and can add a few things.
- the non homogenous market was mainly on the background of the girls. A bit counter to the main romanian / bulgarian FKK market. Although there are plenty from those two countries (and moldova) all over too.
- the 10 fold increase in internet ads as pointed out in the study is really just a 2 or a 3 fold increase as most girls run 2-5 adds each.
- many former streetwalkers before the new laws now mainly also run internet ads.
- a good reason for the increase is the expansion of low cost air travel and airbnb as opposed to high cost air travel and expensive hotels not allowing prostitution.
-Networking among prostitutes has increased, so the prostitutes know the real numbers. Talking to them are the key. Not some 'I know it all' professor making educated guesses and assumptions.
- before the nordic model law, sex was also illegal to sell. That held many escorts away. Now it is legal for them to sell, basically inviting them to come.
- mongers all over the world don't care about legal / illegal, as these laws are just made up by random people (politicians) like you and me with own agendas, and like the study says, people don't considers the escorts as victims (even if a percentage of them are). So it falls flat against free thinking mongers, and like some have mentioned here already, you can never stop the exchange of sex for money. Like I have pointed out before, it is what created money in the first place. Without sex, there would be no money.
- If the law was intended to stop trafficking, the police work gets a dice roll of 0 from me. Basically making me unsure weather or not trafficking as an excuse for the law was just a cover up, even if it still happens to a few. Then again, police work against drug imports also gets a dice roll of 0. Cops are more interested in standing around looking silly, or stopping is in traffic these days. To hand you fines so that they get an income. If I could buy shares in police work, I would.
Pahllus Maximus
07-24-18, 10:24
The attraction of the FKKs is the other trimmings: beautiful cities (maybe not Frankfurt though), clean, efficient transport, spotless hotels, the straight forward manner of Germans, and also skiing and and in Berlin, excellent choice of top notch food. The Wellcum Club in Villach, Austria is delightful, pine trees, fresh air, scenic mountains, a pool, gym a serious kitchen with real chefs and good quality food and ton of hot women parading around. Day trips include idyllic hiking in summer and skiing in winter. You meet like minded men, some from this board, and interesting chats and friendships are formed over a beer or nice wine served in proper glasses, and beautiful women begging you to pick them and bonk them.
The eye candy alone is staggering. If I was a teenager again my head would have exploded !
All very clean, orderly, no shame, no LE, no sleaze, and excellent health care and tests. It is essentially a resort. My only gripe with FKK's is the smoking. If that could be removed save for carefully isolated areas it would be nirvana. This could be so easily replicated in the USA but for silly laws, and it would bring investors or retirees buying houses nearby to engage in such facilities.
Germany makes a lot of money from inbound tourism of horny Italians, Brits, Americans, French, Scandinavians and so on. Hotels, airports, restaurants and so on, and the girls also spend much of what they earn locally. The clubs pay tax. It is amazing you can have hundreds of men at Oase and not a single cop to be seen. Germany can also add medical tourism to the package. This whole package is indeed worth the 10 hours from the west coast or central.
....Germany makes a lot of money from inbound tourism of horny Italians, Brits, Americans, French, Scandinavians and so on. Hotels, airports, restaurants and so on, and the girls also spend much of what they earn ... That's nonsense though. Our hobby is peanuts to the German economy. We carry about as much weight as maybe the toothpick industry.
Mongerer88
07-24-18, 15:27
All very clean, orderly, no shame, no LE, no sleaze, and excellent health care and tests. It is essentially a resort. My only gripe with FKK's is the smoking. If that could be removed save for carefully isolated areas it would be nirvana. This could be so easily replicated in the USA but for silly laws, and it would bring investors or retirees buying houses nearby to engage in such facilities..I still have a lot of questions regarding your posts which are always at 50,000 feet looking down.
Which laws are silly, the laws against prostitution or the laws limiting immigration.
Because in the USA, contrary to what is said on this board, the laws against foreigners coming to work in the USA Are enforced a lot more heavily than the laws against prostitution itself. Almost all sting operations involving customers involved fake ads on low end advertising sites like Backpage. Sure there have been plenty of federal-level enforcement actions against agencies, but those are about money and publicity, not about prosecuting ordinary customers or sex workers. The tried and true method of a guy contacting a reviewed independent, cooperating with reasonable screening, and doing the deed, usually repeatedly if he becomes a regular, is basically the USA Scene. It is a big market with big supply and big demand. Prices are high, but if a guy pays enough services are excellent, including BBBJ, CIM, anal, fetishes, etc. Granted we are talking very high prices, but most USA Johns spend a lifetime with this system with no realistic fear of law enforcement activity. There are a lot of USA Message and review boards that confirm this.
I realize this independent escort system does not appeal to guys who like FKKs, but my detailed questions are how the entry of a German-style FKK system would really change things the way you suggest.
I presume you want low prices like those at the FKKs. The secret to success at the FKKs is the availability of low-cost labor from Eastern Europe. What changes would you propose to the immigration and temporary visa system to allow Venezuelans, Cubans and ladies from some parts of Mexico and Colombia work at the FKKs? That is a bigger change than legalizing prostitution. And that is the only way you are going to get low prices. $50 to $100 is a fortune when taken back to those countries. It ain't jack shit to American sex workers currently getting $200 to $600 an hour as independents. You seem swayed by the reported wages of American ladies, or what they say after leaving a Bernie Sanders rally, but if you look at their lifestyles, including what they drive, wear and eat, they have some damn good money coming from somewhere, even the ones in North Dakota.
So what would your target session price be at your hypothetical American FKK? How would you find workers at low prices?
Do you really think American escorts want to register and receive tax reporting documents that would forever indicate she worked in the sex industry. Do you really think she wants to give up the freedom that working for herself gives her?
And you never discuss detailed services in your posts, even with respect to your sessions. The only American legal system now is in rural Nevada, and not only does that have the highest prices in the country, but it also has the most clinical services. Independents in Vegas are less expensive than the brothels and it is much easier to find BBBJ, CIM and anal (all of which are forbidden in the Nevada legal brothels and the rules are adhered to).
You think retirees would flock to the American FKKs, but I have always been told that BBBJ is even more important to older guys, as getting an election from a CBJ becomes more difficult as they age.
Do you really think if the USA Legalized and regulated prostitution, that BBBJ and CIM would be permitted in the FKKs? The places would be new, with no history of BBBJ and CIM from ladies working there who would be comfortable ignoring the rules, like at German FKKs. The services at any legal American FKKs would be so clinical that guys would seek out the independent escorts.
It just won't work in the USA, and the USA Doesn't lack a commercial sex industry. Enjoy the FKKs in Germany, and enjoy the American independent escorts. We don't have to make every market the same.
Rogue Nation
07-24-18, 17:47
That's nonsense though. Our hobby is peanuts to the German economy. We carry about as much weight as maybe the toothpick industry.Exactly. As much nonsense as the rest on the analysis on the German P6 industry.
So if sex workers were illegal immigrants plus prostitution being illegal in the US, that would not be ignored by authorities.
That's nonsense though. Our hobby is peanuts to the German economy. We carry about as much weight as maybe the toothpick industry.Even in places where a club has a significant local benefit for taxi drivers and hotels, local authorities have not hesitated to act against the industry. Nationwide the net benefits are neglible to the economy.
Member #4581
07-24-18, 22:11
M88 - interesting post as always, from you. One question -- you said prices in legal NV are higher than for illegal independents on average. Why do you think that is? With legalization, one would expect price transparency; and perhaps supply increasing at least to some extent because *some* women who are currently afraid of the law would enter work force but so does demand (if it was legal, I would search for options closer to home for sure; net net, perhaps supply demand curves do not shift too much or may bee they will).
One parallel I am thinking of is legalization of marijuana. Some articles suggest prices came down after legalization.
However apparently usage did not increase too much for drugs post legalization.
https://grizzle.com/marijuana-prices-legal-growers-market/
Smoke Light
07-24-18, 22:41
I do not see PahllusMaximus's posts as an instant proposal to change things or delve into deep analysis of P6 economics. Firstly, his essays encourage the need to legalize and decriminalize prostitution and buying sex. Secondly, promote dignity and normality of the prostitute-client business. Perhaps we should not even call them US FKKs. Rather, I would stick with an idea of Adult Day Care, copyright KK.
I am against any and all attempts to portray illegal US sex industry as an "OK" alternative. It may be fine with some mongers, but many of us are sick of constant looking over the shoulder checking for sting ops by cops or weighing in whether the provider is a camouflaged LE officer. Even repeat sex with a good escort cannot compare to a relaxing afternoon at Sharks or World by the pool in a company of friendly, like-minded people.
In Aruba tutes come from Colombia with 3-months work permit, then go home for another 3 months. US could utilize similar system to bring in foreign sex workers and keep affordable prices.
Mongerer88
07-24-18, 23:01
They are just theories, but the very limited supply of "legal" prostitutes seems to capture a price inelastic demand group.
The "legal" prostitutes have significant health checks and are in some counties (based on my understanding) not allowed to leave the places during their work stay unless they go through another set of medical exams. So the irrational guys who are completely convinced, notwithstanding the clear evidence to the contrary, that they will contract an STD if they get anywhere near a "non-licensed" prostitute are willing to pay an extravagant premium. So the ladies charge that extravagant premium, and those guys are if course very happy to get the legally required CBJ instead of a BBBJ.
Many guys are also completely and irrationally convinced that the police will bust through hotel room doors and arrest them if a female is observed entering their hotel room. They think any email or phone call to an escort is monitored, even though purchasing time and companionship is legal. You really wouldn't believe what some guys think. So they are willing to pay a premium for doing an act that is completely legal. No matter how many times it is pointed out that if she is clearly not a cop because she advertises as an escort and has reviews, and no one knows what happened in the privacy of a hotel room or incall apartment, these guys think the cops will come knocking at the door. They don't study police actions or actual arrests. They read about a backpage sting where the cops took out a fake ad, something completely different than a guy booking an escort who screens, and they get paranoid. So they pay a premium for legality.
Lastly, the legal scene was once actually much better than it is today. It was when a generation of younger ladies became comfortable with internet advertising and emails and cell phones that independent escorts went out on their own instead of working at the legal houses. I know that sounds ridiculous because that first generation of women are now moms and grandmothers, but some of the amounts paid for the licenses to operate these few legal houses were reported to be astronomical. So the owners keep up the pressure for the ladies to charge a lot, even though the competition (independent escorts) charge far less. I know that defies traditional economics, but that happens in a distorted industry. Many of the owners try to justify astronomical prices by publicity stunts like having known porn stars in the line-up.
While all of this may seem pointless, it doesn't bode well for Phallus's proposition that a legal FKK system would work in the USA.
You would need a massive increase in supply from opening a lot of facilities and from allowing women from poorer countries to enter the USA To work. This has to happen to push down the price. The economics just don't work otherwise. And that just ain't going to happen. Guys are free to travel and get what they want somewhere else if they want to, but the USA Will never help "improve" its local market in a way that would benefit johns.
M88 - interesting post, as always from you. One question -- you said prices in legal NV are higher than illegals independents on average. Why do you think that is? With legalization, one would expect price transparency; and perhaps supply increasing at least to some extent because *some* women who are currently afraid of the law would enter work force but so does demand (if it was legal, I would search for options closer to home for sure; net net, perhaps supply demand curves do not shift too much or may bee they will).
One parallel I am thinking of is legalization of marijuana. Some articles suggest prices came down after legalization.
https://grizzle.com/marijuana-prices-legal-growers-market/
UltraHappy
07-25-18, 03:33
One question -- prices in legal NV are higher than for illegal independents on average. Why do you think that is? As I understand it, in the counties where it is legal, only a limited number of licenses are granted. So, competition for a house license is quite limited.
It's not legal for an independent girl to offer her services in those counties unless she's working in a licensed establishment. And those licensed establishments take a big "cut" of her fee.
It would be very interesting to see the same experiment played out with prostitution as has played out with marijuana (that is, post-legalization prices). I don't think Nevada is a fair example of true legalization, given its limited scope and artificial scarcity. Now, if it were legalized across the entire state of California or Florida for example, that would be very interesting indeed.
This court case in California could have legalized prostitution in California last year, but unfortunately, the appeals court decided the case incorrectly recently (http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/october/how-california-may-be-the-next-state-to-legalize-prostitution).
In January, 2017, the Hawaii legislature was considering a bill to legalize prostitution in Hawaii, but unfortunately, the bill died on its second reading in February, 2017: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-hawaii-bill-legalize-prostitution-20170203-story.html.
I would love to see Florida decriminalize prostitution. Heck, anywhere with a hub city airport would work for me!
Member #4722
07-25-18, 04:12
What is the protocol for reporting BBBJ in FKK forums? I haven't been on this board in awhile but going to post a trip report soon. I assume I can talk about it in general terms here but should be more vague in the club forums as to not attract undue attention to these clubs?
What is the protocol for reporting BBBJ in FKK forums? I haven't been on this board in awhile but going to post a trip report soon. I assume I can talk about it in general terms here but should be more vague in the club forums as to not attract undue attention to these clubs?Protocol is BBBJ, which stand for bang bang blow job LOL.
Rogue Nation
07-25-18, 08:30
The "legal" prostitutes have significant health checks and are in some counties (based on my understanding) not allowed to leave the places during their work stay unless they go through another set of medical exams. Just for Germany: There are no mandatory health checks for STD and girls are allowed to leave the work place, go to any other brothel etc.
What is the protocol for reporting BBBJ in FKK forums? I haven't been on this board in awhile but going to post a trip report soon. I assume I can talk about it in general terms here but should be more vague in the club forums as to not attract undue attention to these clubs?The Admin view is that members can report what they like (apart from paedophilia and trans sex).
Different members here have different views on reporting BBBJ. The debate has been heated. German forums almost all ban mention of BBBJ as internet reporting has in the past led to girls being thrown out of clubs.
I personally do not report on any illegal activity I know of. The clubs' are trying really hard to be SEEN to be doing their best to make sure no illegal activities take place on their premises as they do not want to be seen as "bad" places which need extra attention of tax, planning, licensing, and immigration authorities.I don't want to risk giving even the tiniest ammunition to those who want to restrict FKKs
Other members feel that it is a matter of free speech and that reports on this forum have no impact in the real world. They also argue that not reporting will lead to the service of bbbj becoming unavailable
I think both groups agree that reports on this forum are 100% not leading to any convictions if any man receiving BBBJ.
So, up to you in the end.
Smoke Light
07-25-18, 12:18
What is the protocol for reporting BBBJ in FKK forums? I haven't been on this board in awhile but going to post a trip report soon. I assume I can talk about it in general terms here but should be more vague in the club forums as to not attract undue attention to these clubs?Common approach on many international forums is to report BBBJ simply as BJ in positive manner and drop the BB prefix alltogether. Any law-abiding BJ is reported as CBJ. For example, "Her BJ skills are amazing" vs. "Unfortunately, only CBJ in E50 room with this girl. Everything else is extra".
UltraHappy
07-25-18, 12:19
What is the protocol for reporting BBBJ in FKK forums? I haven't been on this board in awhile but going to post a trip report soon. I assume I can talk about it in general terms here but should be more vague in the club forums as to not attract undue attention to these clubs?To add to Optimist's considered post below, for those posters who do share information about BBBJ, I would add that most posters withhold specifics in this regard when mentioning specific girls by name.
While the forum rules do not explicitly prohibit posting publicly information that might cause problems with management for a particular girl, why increase the likelihood of bringing problems down on a girl who, in the end, was nice to you? I certainly wouldn't want a girl to think, "Man, I gave this guy superior service, and look what happened to me. Now, I've got management on my case due to people reporting publicly that I'm contributing to illegal behavior. " (I understand that this will depend on club). Regardless of whether a girl would be hassled by her management for such activities, do we really want to increase public reporting of illegal activities which could increase likelihood of pressure for enforcement actions against a club?
In any case, the more refined posters of the forum have found ways to creatively communicate regarding this issue without being so explicit.
In my case, I simply report BJ (without any preceding initials, one way or the other) and my accompanying satisfaction level. Most forum readers are astute enough to draw the appropriate conclusions. Just my personal preference.
To add to Optimist's considered post below, for those posters who do share information about BBBJ, I would add that most posters withhold specifics in this regard when mentioning specific girls by name.
While the forum rules do not explicitly prohibit posting publicly information that might cause problems with management for a particular girl, why increase the likelihood of bringing problems down on a girl who, in the end, was nice to you? I certainly wouldn't want a girl to think, "Man, I gave this guy superior service, and look what happened to me. Now, I've got management on my case due to people reporting publicly that I'm contributing to illegal behavior. " (I understand that this will depend on club). Regardless of whether a girl would be hassled by her management for such activities, do we really want to increase public reporting of illegal activities which could increase likelihood of pressure for enforcement actions against a club?
In any case, the more refined posters of the forum have found ways to creatively communicate regarding this issue without being so explicit.
In my case, I simply report BJ (without any preceding initials, one way or the other) and my accompanying satisfaction level. Most forum readers are astute enough to draw the appropriate conclusions. Just my personal preference.I would like to add, regardless of what a lady does for one customer, it is always subjective, and MMV. I know many ladies who vary service based on looks, smell, attitude, etc. In my posts I frequently state, this lady does / does not perform all extras when referring to illegal services and anal. I hate to comment on DFK unless they don't for me because this is the single service with the most variance from my experiences.
Mongerer88
07-25-18, 17:19
Just for Germany: There are no mandatory health checks for STD and girls are allowed to leave the work place, go to any other brothel etc.Good point. When I said that is was in the context of Nevada.
Back a long time ago when they had younger ladies, the legal places in Nevada filled up during the summers and on longer college breaks, since the medical tests made working there a significant time commitment. Not sure if it is still like that.
In my opinion, that is really a bullshit way for the government to make a lady live her life to work in the industry, especially given the virtually zero chance of an STD transmission with condom use.
Most ladies who go to college would obviously much rather take a few escort appointments a week while they live in their own place.
This is one of the many reasons why I think that not only would the US government over-regulate any "legal" brothel, but I simply don't think the brothel lifestyle would appeal to most current US sex workers after having done this via email and cellphone scheduling for so long.
I took Phallus comments to be related to the potential legalization of this activity through allowing brothels to exist. So SmokeLight, sorry if I misunderstood, but I was pretty sure that was his example. Personally, I think the US government is about as likely to allow foreign ladies to enter the US to work in the sex industry for three month stretches after a hypothetical legalization of prostitution as the likelihood that this activity becomes unnecessary because all of the college girls in the US read an essay in feminist studies class about how men from 18-88 really need sex and those college girls decide to fuck all of the guys they know between ages 18-88. Neither is going to happen in my opinion.
To me the trend worldwide, with the exception of Germany, is toward more decriminalization (although the theoretical BBBJ ban isn't exactly a positive development). But technology allows more information sharing and communication between a like-minded prostitute and John, so to me that is the future in the US instead of trying German-style brothels. But granted, Fosta / Sesta dealt a setback, hopefully temporary, to free and open communication.
Member #4722
07-25-18, 19:46
Thanks guys I did write my reports but I was very vague and did not mention any acts in codes. I last visited FKKs last summer right after the new law and I am happy to say things are back to normal I did not have one issue getting what I wanted even in 30 minute sessions. Also one was right out in the open in the club. I am a BJ aficionado and sometimes I prefer this more than sex and although I don't think the FKKs are perfect, one thing I know is that almost every single girl I have sessioned with gives an expert BJ and that is a big draw for me. Out of about 10 girls I spent time with I would say the lowest level BJ I got was 7 out of 10 so that is pretty fucking great. A shame to ruin that with a condom which basically makes me lose 90 percent interest in even getting a BJ at all.
...
To me the trend worldwide, with the exception of Germany, is toward more decriminalization (although the theoretical BBBJ ban isn't exactly a positive development.I don't see such a trend, at least not as far as men are concerned. I see all kinds of "nordic models" gaining ground everywhere. Engaging a stranger female for sex in exchange for some money is becoming the most consistently repressed activity the world over after drugs. Sad.
Mongerer88
07-26-18, 00:09
I don't see such a trend, at least not as far as men are concerned. I see all kinds of "nordic models" gaining ground everywhere. Engaging a stranger female for sex in exchange for some money is becoming the most consistently repressed activity the world over after drugs. Sad.Whoops, sorry I meant criminalization.
Or at least half criminalization with the Nordic Model in Canada and Ireland.
Sorry. Made the sentence nonsensical.
Member #4581
07-26-18, 00:57
I would like to add, regardless of what a lady does for one customer, it is always subjective, and MMV. I know many ladies who vary service based on looks, smell, attitude, etc. In my posts I frequently state, this lady does / does not perform all extras when referring to illegal services and anal. I hate to comment on DFK unless they don't for me because this is the single service with the most variance from my experiences.I think readers know, or should know, that it is always YMMV. As such, any member writing a report should not have to fudge or hide aspects of his session because the FKK girl might not provide the same quality service to all mongers. In my view, members should write reports honestly and in compliance with forum rules and leave it there. That's what I try to do.
That said, no one else has any right to tell any member what or how to write. If a member doesn't like what or how someone else wrote a report, tough luck — he should write his own report if it bothers him so much. One can always debate what someone else wrote, but no one has any right to tell someone else "write a different way", or "stop writing in this manner".
I think readers know, or should know, that it is always YMMV. As such, any member writing a report should not have to fudge or hide aspects of his session because the FKK girl might not provide the same quality service to all mongers. In my view, members should write reports honestly and in compliance with forum rules and leave it there. That's what I try to do.
That said, no one else has any right to tell any member what or how to write. If a member doesn't like what or how someone else wrote a report, tough luck he should write his own report if it bothers him so much. One can always debate what someone else wrote, but no one has any right to tell someone else "write a different way", or "stop writing in this manner".Well this is the problem of this forum, they like to go hysteric on many issues.
I might be naive, but I don't see any other country adapting the Nordic model given the growing backlash and awareness of this law plus lack of political apathy as there are more important issues out there.
I forget to mention that NGO groups like Amnesty and even politicians support legalizing prostitution.
I don't see such a trend, at least not as far as men are concerned. I see all kinds of "nordic models" gaining ground everywhere. Engaging a stranger female for sex in exchange for some money is becoming the most consistently repressed activity the world over after drugs. Sad.I totally agree. I don't see any trend towards legalization of prostitution at all. Can anyone name one US congressman / woman or US senator, including from state of Nevada, who is openly pro-legalization of prostitution? That tells us something. I would suggest that the posters, who spent some time to write paragraph after paragraph on this subject on this forum, spend some time to write to their lawmakers for their districts and write here to encourage the US readers to write to their lawmakers on this subject. That would be much more productive for legalization of prostitution in the US.
Pahllus Maximus
07-26-18, 11:15
Was an interesting thought experiment. I think there are plenty of women who get crap pay (or are unemployed) and would be willing as the already harsh economy tightens and structural unemployment becomes the norm. No need to import. However, the political system is just not ready. But in 2040 when things are really bad, and today's gen why's are in power, that may change. Recall that the USA has no real income safety net compared to other countries.
Now importantly, my last trip to Austria in April this year saw an expert BBJCIM by a hot blonde leggy Moldavian as she looked me in the eyes and fondled my balls simultaneously. Her tonsils were well massaged and rinsed, and had my salad tossed big time and wandered back into the lounge with a Cheshire cat grin and stars in my eyes. This reminds me of Bangkok and my tradition of a BBJCIM on waking up, then coffee and breakfast. The highlight is a limo service I always use to head to the airport and an great send off en route. I just slide the driver 1500 baht to ignore what happens in the back. Indeed, this practice is something I am yet to get on a commercial flight, probably an overnight flight when the lights are out and elsewhere. I would say 10% of the limos for the rich in Manhattan have such entertainment on tap. Lucky bastards. Would make the Holland tunnel a breeze.
Fortunately, the FKKs have law and lore. BBJCIM has never been an issue IMHE. One might say the new law is, ahem, lip service only :-)
Pahllus Maximus
07-26-18, 11:40
Mongerer88 may have a point: P4 P is available in USA, but will cost a few thousand screening out duds and LE until a group of regular safe providers are found. Discuss nothing on the phone, except "come over and keep me company while I cook dinner" (or study the bible or whatever) then take time for 30 minutes sussing her out or so, and finally ask the chick to touch you before money is discussed, all the things that women cops have no patience for and will not do. Just say any money is for helping make dinner, maybe toss the salad (and actually have some real salad to toss if it is a pig for first dates). Problem is you cannot easily do this from a hotel. Sure it will be end up being a $1 k a month hobby when it is all said and done, but cheaper than a wife and compares pretty well to airfares, ground transport, hotels (let's say $US1700 for a week) FKK entry (EUR75 = US87.73) and the girls themselves at say EUR100 an hour (US116.97 as of a few moments ago). And about 26 hours of transit time. Flagfall is at least US2050 before the per girl cost, assuming 4 FKK entries in 7 days.
That's US 293 a day flagfall. Add three sessions and we get US351 a day to the girls. This is a new area to me, but getting say 6 regulars is not that much more expensive, and cost levels over time. The downside is not having 50 beautiful naked women to look at over a beer. What a conundrum. Definitely a first world problem.
UltraHappy
07-26-18, 13:46
The only hope for legalization in the States would have to come from groups of female sex workers advocating for decriminalization.
Anything from men on this topic would fall on deaf ears in our political system.
Unfortunately, we don't have sufficient numbers of female sex workers Stateside who are willing to advocate for their rights as some groups have done in Europe.
The only hope for legalization in the States would have to come from groups of female sex workers advocating for decriminalization.
Anything from men on this topic would fall on deaf ears in our political system.
Unfortunately, we don't have sufficient numbers of female sex workers Stateside who are willing to advocate for their rights as some groups have done in Europe.As has been hinted here in some posts already, women can sell sex at a higher price in a prohibition setting.
If 10 sex-workers become jobless because of a crackdown, 10 thousand others benefit from it. Don't expect American sugar babies to demonstrate in favour of the 50-euro half-hour full-service. The handfull of demonstrating sex-workers in Europe were a side-show.
Neurosynth
07-26-18, 17:08
What is the protocol for reporting BBBJ in FKK forums? I haven't been on this board in awhile but going to post a trip report soon. I assume I can talk about it in general terms here but should be more vague in the club forums as to not attract undue attention to these clubs?This is a matter of some controversy. My feeling is that the most useful posts are those that provide the most detailed information. I think that many have an inflated impression as to how much impact posts here make on the overall situation. There are anecdotal reports here or there, but what goes unmentioned are the more than compensating positive aspects of detailed reporting.
Because the anti-BB laws are essentially unenforceable, the laws can only work if men develop irrational fears. I say irrational because, again, the laws are unenforceable behind closed doors.
Beyond this, open reporting of available (or not) services creates a fairer market, and increases the probability of finding such services due to competition.
But I've seen no sign of board rules suggesting BB services not be reported on. In fact board management here has occasionally chastised posters who tell guys that this or that should not be reported on. The operators here don't want posters to suggest not posting. Ironically that rule, the only one related to the German law at all, is flagrantly ignored with regularity.
I totally agree. I don't see any trend towards legalization of prostitution at all. Can anyone name one US congressman / woman or US senator, including from state of Nevada, who is openly pro-legalization of prostitution? That tells us something. I would suggest that the posters, who spent some time to write paragraph after paragraph on this subject on this forum, spend some time to write to their lawmakers for their districts and write here to encourage the US readers to write to their lawmakers on this subject. That would be much more productive for legalization of prostitution in the US. I don't know about the US.. In my country there was a few years ago a proposal seriously considered to introduce the Nordic model. The parliamentarians considering it received an unexpected amount of correspondence objecting, on the grounds that it would lead to increased exploitation of women. The opponents won the day and ensured that the Nordic model in my country was stopped, at least temporarily.
Politicians listen to campaigners if they are vocal and numerous enough, and have a good case.
And yes, I did write. Several times
I don't know about the US.. In my country there was a few years ago a proposal seriously considered to introduce the Nordic model. The parliamentarians considering it received an unexpected amount of correspondence objecting, on the grounds that it would lead to increased exploitation of women. The opponents won the day and ensured that the Nordic model in my country was stopped, at least temporarily.
Politicians listen to campaigners if they are vocal and numerous enough, and have a good case.
And yes, I did write. Several timesI completely agree with you. Politicians listen to campaigners and the people they represent. In the US, I think that the state legislation for legalization of prostitution remains to be a viable option, which requires the residents of the state to make their voices heard by their lawmakers.
I think that the state court almost always sides with the state for these kinds of cases initiated by a handful of people (sex workers in this case) because these people don't represent the residents and the interests of the state. The only way that the US sex workers can do to decriminalize prostitution successfully through the court system is to fight through US Federal court system on the ground of human right.
UltraHappy
07-26-18, 18:39
The only way that the US sex workers can do to decriminalize prostitution successfully through the court system is to fight through US Federal court system on the ground of human right.The US Federal court system has become overwhelmingly conservative due to appointments by Republican presidents (and by the Republicans blocking Democratic appointments during the previous Democratic presidencies when the Republicans retained control of the Senate).
The most recent Federal court case on this subject was decided earlier this year: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2018/01/17/16-15927.pdf..
The Ninth Circuit, which is the most liberal Federal circuit in the US, decided that there is no protectable right to associated commercial sex (but rather only personal sex relationships absent commercial transactions). With this recent decision by the most liberal Federal circuit in the US behind us now, I hate to break it to you, the chance of any Federal circuit court deciding otherwise is next to nil in our lifetimes.
Continuing to vote Blue this November and each and every election will help matters, but this is a long process that will have to occur over time. Remember that federal judges are appointed for life. The damage inflicted by the Red voters will persist for years and years, at least in the Federal court system.
I would love to be proved wrong on this point, but I am highly skeptical that any Federal court will offer us relief in the area of decriminalization any time in the next 30-40 years.
Our best hope is for state legislative action, triggered by female sex worker interest groups. But, I am personally skeptical of that happening any time soon in the current US political / cultural climate.
Then again, if thousands and thousands of female sex workers come out tomorrow and start campaigning for the rights of female sex workers, I will be quite pleased to be wrong. I recognize that I am just playing my own personal game of crystal ball.
The US Federal court system has become overwhelmingly conservative due to appointments by Republican presidents (and by the Republicans blocking Democratic appointments during the previous Democratic presidencies when the Republicans retained control of the Senate).
The most recent Federal court case on this subject was decided earlier this year: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2018/01/17/16-15927.pdf..
The Ninth Circuit, which is the most liberal Federal circuit in the US, decided that there is no protectable right to associated commercial sex (but rather only personal sex relationships absent commercial transactions). With this recent decision by the most liberal Federal circuit in the US behind us now, I hate to break it to you, the chance of any Federal circuit court deciding otherwise is next to nil in our lifetimes.
Continuing to vote Blue this November and each and every election will help matters, but this is a long process that will have to occur over time. Remember that federal judges are appointed for life. The damage inflicted by the Red voters will persist for years and years, at least in the Federal court system.
I would love to be proved wrong on this point, but I am highly skeptical that any Federal court will offer us relief in the area of decriminalization any time in the next 30-40 years.Voting blue won't help as the feminist democrats will never allow prostitution to be legalized.
Of all presidents Trump is the one most likely to be pro-prostitution.
The US Federal court system has become overwhelmingly conservative due to appointments by Republican presidents (and by the Republicans blocking Democratic appointments during the previous Democratic presidencies when the Republicans retained control of the Senate).
They've turned to the Dark Side, I tell you.
Our best hope is for state legislative action, triggered by female sex worker interest groups. But, I am personally skeptical of that happening any time soon in the current US political / cultural climate.
Then again, if thousands and thousands of female sex workers come out tomorrow and start campaigning for the rights of female sex workers, I will be quite pleased to be wrong.I believe the interest groups and social workers were the ones in DE and NL that triggered legislative action. This ultimately led to the legalization of prostitution. Their motivation was to improve the working conditions of WGs. Stop pimping. Stop trafficking. They considered it a human rights issue. Just as is the case whenever a marginalized group is exploited.
I believe the interest groups and social workers were the ones in DE and NL that triggered legislative action. This ultimately led to the legalization of prostitution. Their motivation was to improve the working conditions of WGs. Stop pimping. Stop trafficking. They considered it a human rights issue. Just as is the case whenever a marginalized group is exploited.I agree with you.
UltraHappy,
I didn't mean that sex workers have any reasonable chance in Federal court system. I actually think that they have almost zero chance in both state and federal count systems because this kind of matter usually is legislation matter and the courts don't want to involve in it. What I meant was that, if we really want to pick the court systems as a way to legalize prostitution, Federal court system is better option to do it than state court, which I still believe.
As I wrote in my initial post on this topic, I think that legalizing prostitution through state legislation is the best option to achieve legalization of prostitution in the US. This requires the residents of the state to make their voices heard by their lawmakers, which I encouraged the posters and readers to do.
UltraHappy
07-26-18, 21:11
As I wrote in my initial post on this topic, I think that legalizing prostitution through state legislation is the best option to achieve legalization of prostitution in the US. This requires the residents of the state to make their voices heard by their lawmakers, which I encouraged the posters and readers to do.You, sir, are a brilliant man!
Polyamorist
07-26-18, 21:43
Salaam all, just wondered if there are any US Constitutional Scholars among us, and if so:
How many cases have been brought before the Supreme Court defending man's inalienable right to the "Pursuit of Happiness"?
Or is the constitution just a piece of dead paper anyway.
UltraHappy
07-26-18, 22:18
Salaam all, just wondered if there are any US Constitutional Scholars among us, and if so:
How many cases have been brought before the Supreme Court defending man's inalienable right to the "Pursuit of Happiness"?
Or is the constitution just a piece of dead paper anyway.Which Supreme Court? The Supreme Court of the United States?
There are quite a lot of US Supreme Court opinions dealing with prostitution in some fashion. To read all their opinions, just go to https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-supreme-court and type in the keywords you want to search like, "prostitution. " This will reveal all their opinions.
But, warning, most of them make for quite boring reading and many deal with esoteric legal issues.
None of them unfortunately contain what you are looking for, that is, no shreds of hope. Sorry.
Member #4581
07-26-18, 23:30
UltraHappy,
I didn't mean that sex workers have any reasonable chance in Federal court system. I actually think that they have almost zero chance in both state and federal count systems because this kind of matter usually is legislation matter and the courts don't want to involve in it. What I meant was that, if we really want to pick the court systems as a way to legalize prostitution, Federal court system is better option to do it than state court, which I still believe.
As I wrote in my initial post on this topic, I think that legalizing prostitution through state legislation is the best option to achieve legalization of prostitution in the US. This requires the residents of the state to make their voices heard by their lawmakers, which I encouraged the posters and readers to do.I am not a lawyer and don't have an opinion on whether sate courts tend to side with state legislatures / whether it is easier to get a favorable verdict in state courts vs federal courts. But to the extent that prostitution is not legal at the national level but is legal in a specific state like NV, it is clear that our justice system has taken the stance this is a state matter, and that precedent has been set. Courts, especially the conservative high court we currently have as UH said don't like to legislate but interpret and rule on established law, and unless the law is changed at the national level, we are not likely to have nationwide legal prostitution through courts alone.
As for state legislatures OK'ing prostitution — NV is a special case. Smaller state, somewhat libertarian mindset of the population, etc. I think it is only possible in similar such states. Something in the West, sparsely populated where the people have more libertarian view points. East of Mississippi this is almost impossible in my view. Perhaps Montana, or Wyoming or some other state like that? I don't know how it will be any different or better than what we already have in NV at the moment. So, I come back to the view that US is unlikely to see development of FKK style systems for at least dozens of years. May be with an entirely different generations of people in future?
I am not a lawyer and don't have an opinion on whether sate courts tend to side with state legislatures / whether it is easier to get a favorable verdict in state courts vs federal courts. But to the extent that prostitution is not legal at the national level but is legal in a specific state like NV, it is clear that our justice system has taken the stance this is a state matter, and that precedent has been set. Courts, especially the conservative high court we currently have as UH said don't like to legislate but interpret and rule on established law, and unless the law is changed at the national level, we are not likely to have nationwide legal prostitution through courts alone.
As for state legislatures OK'ing prostitution NV is a special case. Smaller state, somewhat libertarian mindset of the population, etc. I think it is only possible in similar such states. Something in the West, sparsely populated where the people have more libertarian view points. East of Mississippi this is almost impossible in my view. Perhaps Montana, or Wyoming or some other state like that? I don't know how it will be any different or better than what we already have in NV at the moment. So, I come back to the view that US is unlikely to see development of FKK style systems for at least dozens of years. May be with an entirely different generations of people in future?Even in Nevada, prostitution is only legal in a limited county. For example, even though WGs are plentiful in Vegas or Reno, don't get caught soliciting. As for the possibility of Montana or Wyoming, I think that you are off base as these areas are still quite red, even given the heavy migration from crowded states like California. I think I will settle down in Washington or Oregon and start the campaign. It has to be in a poor county outside the major city economic sphere and run the campaign at the county level instead of state or national. Then if it passes I will start a club using the German model.
BBBJ technique among other sexual technique of top FKK girls are divine level that most normal girls who has not such many dicks as FKK girls cannot provide actually.
Sometimes, in one hour session girl actually suck my dick for almost 40 minutes non stop and I wonder. How their jaws can cope with such a physical activity and I am not the only client for her of that day. It is amazing what human body can adjust to environment, I cannot suck pussy for 40 min.
We have a better chance of seeing the OWO ban overturned in DE or repeal of Swedish model that bans sex purchase than see the US legalize prostitution in next few decades, but anything possible. Keep in mind that prostitution has been illegal in USA for well over a century outside of Nevada.
I believe the interest groups and social workers were the ones in DE and NL that triggered legislative action. This ultimately led to the legalization of prostitution. Their motivation was to improve the working conditions of WGs. Stop pimping. Stop trafficking. They considered it a human rights issue. Just as is the case whenever a marginalized group is exploited.In return or as a result it benefited us mongers as well state.
Member #4581
07-27-18, 04:39
Even in Nevada, prostitution is only legal in a limited county. For example, even though WGs are plentiful in Vegas or Reno, don't get caught soliciting. As for the possibility of Montana or Wyoming, I think that you are off base as these areas are still quite red, even given the heavy migration from crowded states like California. I think I will settle down in Washington or Oregon and start the campaign. It has to be in a poor county outside the major city economic sphere and run the campaign at the county level instead of state or national. Then if it passes I will start a club using the German model.No one is off base as your guess is as good or as bad as mine. At this point, it is all guesswork since it is illegal in all states except NV which is not exactly deep blue either. And Dems win heavily in Clark county NV where prostitution is illegal but GOP wins by huge margins in all the rural thinly populated counties of NV which is where brothels are located.
It is not about being red or blue but being libertarian. The mountain and plains northwestern states tend to be libertarian. "Your business is yours, mine is mine".
The redness of those states in the West is quite a different hue of red from the Bible thumping red states of SC or Bama. Also, those states are sparsely populated, and it is easier to get a movement started and petitions signed. Will not happen in big (blue or red) states which are full of families, white collar suburbanites, and easily offended folks of all stripes.
Mongerer88
07-27-18, 05:27
Even in Nevada, prostitution is only legal in a limited county. For example, even though WGs are plentiful in Vegas or Reno, don't get caught soliciting. As for the possibility of Montana or Wyoming, I think that you are off base as these areas are still quite red, even given the heavy migration from crowded states like California. I think I will settle down in Washington or Oregon and start the campaign. It has to be in a poor county outside the major city economic sphere and run the campaign at the county level instead of state or national. Then if it passes I will start a club using the German model.I believe you will go quite bankrupt.
For guys who like the comfort of legality, they can get to Germany or similar foreign place as easily as some place in rural Montana or Wyoming.
Most USA Mongers have been finding the online webpage of an independent escort, giving her screening information, and booking a session with her for years. Phallus's description of how to be sure she isn't the police was overboard. The police don't send undercover cops into the room's of johns, and they don't set up a webpage of a fake escort and run it for years, and they definitely don't (and can't) use an existing escort and deputize her to go do a regular session and arrest the guy afterward. What is shown on be movies isn't realistic. Stings involving guys involve new, fake, low-price ads, with lots of obvious solicitation, no screening, and the arrest made after he walks into a room full of cops after committing solicitation on the phone and via text / email. They have no trouble finding guys who fall for it, though.
These ladies make a lot of money because their rates are high, and they ain't going to Montana or Wyoming. To get the guys who have been refusing to participate in the high-priced, screening-heavy illegal system and instead traveling to Europe, Canada, Tijuana, various places in South America, etc. , you have to give him low-prices and similar service to hit the back roads to Wyoming. Your new local law is going to likely have a lot of restrictions on what they can offer, including mandatory CBJs that no one is going to feel confident will be ignored. The American independent prostitutes aren't going to head out west in covered wagons to work at your new place for less than they make now, so good luck getting the federal government and even that local county to let you bring in ladies from Venezuela and Cuba and other places south of the border to work. Now a thinking man would recognize that distributing the wealth back to those poor countries is a good idea, but that has not been the way of thinking in the USA For a long time, if ever. And if "legality" occurred in this USA County due to terrible future economic conditions, as some have suggested, that anti-immigrant sentiment would be even stronger.
Sorry. It is just not going to work. If you like the legal German FKK system, go there. It hasn't been successfully replicated in countries a lot more welcoming to prostitution than the USA In fairness, you would have to admit that having a lot of primarily immigrant women walk around naked and work for relatively low wages (by western world standards) and live at the facility isn't exactly a public relations bonanza. If the many countries that largely decriminalize prostitution, including the United Kingdom and much of Western Europe and some of Latin America, will not accept this model, there is no way a country with full criminalization will take that kind of leap.
... to the extent that prostitution is not legal at the national level but is legal in a specific state like NV, it is clear that our justice system has taken the stance this is a state matter, and that precedent has been set. Courts, especially the conservative high court we currently have as UH said don't like to legislate but interpret and rule on established law, and unless the law is changed at the national level, we are not likely to have nationwide legal prostitution through courts alone.
As for state legislatures OK'ing prostitution NV is a special case. Smaller state, somewhat libertarian mindset of the population, etc. I think it is only possible in similar such states. Something in the West, sparsely populated where the people have more libertarian view points. East of Mississippi this is almost impossible in my view. Perhaps Montana, or Wyoming or some other state like that? I don't know how it will be any different or better than what we already have in NV at the moment. So, I come back to the view that US is unlikely to see development of FKK style systems for at least dozens of years. May be with an entirely different generations of people in future?I agree with you.
Polyamorist
07-27-18, 11:28
There are quite a lot of US Supreme Court opinions dealing with prostitution in some fashion.Shukram (thanks) Sayyid Happy, but my question didn't mention prostitution. I meant to ask literally about that phrase, "the Pursuit of Happiness". How many cases have been brought before the US Supreme Court defending it?
If the answer is zero, in modern legal practice is this now classed as a partially alienable right, a fully alienable right, or what?
I see that the Pursuit of Happiness is only priority number 3 in the Constitution, but that's still not bad. For example, it's not "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Cash. " That would suggest that stuffing tight 19-year old Romanian pussy is a bigger right even than investing in stocks and bonds. Which leaves me baffled as to how FOSTA got out the door without a constitutional challenge.
UltraHappy
07-27-18, 12:12
I meant to ask literally about that phrase, "the Pursuit of Happiness". How many cases have been brought before the US Supreme Court defending it?
I see that the Pursuit of Happiness is only priority number 3 in the Constitution, but that's still not bad. For example, it's not "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Cash. "If you go to the link I provided and type in the phrase "in the pursuit of happiness," in quotes, you will see that there are 95 US Supreme Court cases that mention the "pursuit of happiness. " This will provide some nice leisurely reading for you the next time you are on the beach.
Challenging a law on the basis that the law interferes with one's "pursuit of happiness" is in general not successful as the burden that a government must show to be able to regulate within those areas within its jurisdiction is very low.
States regulate prostitution on the basis of their "police power" and the Federal government regulates prostitution on the basis of its "Commerce Clause" power (that is, trafficking women across state lines for the purpose of prostitution). The Federal Government right to regulate prostitution that occurs across state lines derives from the Commerce Clause, which is one of the enumerated powers delegated to the Federal government in the US Constitution. The Eleventh Amendment states that all powers not delegated to the Federal Government remain with the States, hence the right of the States to regulate within their "police powers. ".
Any attempt to challenge a prostitution law on the basis of the law's interference with one's Constitutional right to the "pursuit of happiness" will only get one laughed at in court. Sorry.
Mongerer88
07-27-18, 12:38
My understanding is that FOSTA is being challenged Constitutionally, but that takes a while. One problem is that several groups shut things down because of it, including symposiums that were merely discussing sex work and providing resources to the hundreds of thousands of sex workers, but the government may argue that the cases should continue because FOSTA was never applicable to them. This is a trend in lawmaking, including Canada's version of the Nordic Model. Pass a ridiculously broad law and then never enforce it. Difficult for a court to hear a challenge to a law if a clearly damaged (arrested) party doesn't exist. But the mere existence of the unenforceable law with draconian penalties intimidates many from possibly running afoul of it. It is Orwellian.
There actually was a short-held belief that a Pursuit of Happiness argument would legalize prostitution throughout the country after a decision, I think it was the Martin case, held that two guys had the right to commit sodomy upon each other. A policemen went to arrest one of them on another charge, encountered homosexual sodomy, and also cited them for that. The Court held that they had a Constitutional right to sodomize each other.
There was a ton of writing that this principle would apply to consensual adult prostitution, but the argument went down in flames. The government has an enormous right to regulate commerce, and prostitution is commerce. You really can't sell what you can give away for free if the government says so, because the selling is commerce. The other argument presented is that significant trafficking exists in prostitution, so it is different than private sodomy. Most of us think that is a myth, but it may have swayed the courts more than we realize. There is also more of a public aspect to prostitution since it is often advertised and it has been argued that makes it different than private sodomy.
After these arguments were rejected following the sodomy case, the court outlook in the US seems pretty grim. As others have mentioned, state legislatures are free to regulate prostitution by legalizing it, but those efforts have failed.
As I have mentioned several times, the police largely leave a large section of the industry alone, and that is the section of the market where most of the transactions occur. But it is the farthest away from an organized FKK style system you can get. It involves two people contacting each other and privately making an arrangement. The German FKK system involves a tremendous number of people being involved long before a condomed penis goes in a vagina, and that just doesn't seem to be the current trend elsewhere in the world, especially the USA.
Member #4722
07-27-18, 18:23
After spending some time in FKKs recently I don't think this could ever work in the USA. Germany is a very civilized society. You would figure a lot of douchebags in America would ruin a good thing very quickly.
After spending some time in FKKs recently I don't think this could ever work in the USA. Germany is a very civilized society. You would figure a lot of douchebags in America would ruin a good thing very quickly.Like some religious zealots?
Member #4722
07-27-18, 19:08
Like some religious zealots?Mainly rich / drunk / entitled guys and frat boys.
ExpatLover
07-27-18, 19:33
After spending some time in FKKs recently I don't think this could ever work in the USA. Germany is a very civilized society. You would figure a lot of douchebags in America would ruin a good thing very quickly.Obviously this can only work with educated and civilized guys, unfortunately a long way to go for numerous US guys but not only it is also true for the guys who are not eating pork.
Mainly rich / drunk / entitled guys and frat boys.Sorry to inform you: But you are now banned from White House Press Briefings, because of your obvious reference to the President in your statement quoted above.
Have a nice day. :)
Polyamorist
07-27-18, 20:56
Any attempt to challenge a prostitution law on the basis of the law's interference with one's Constitutional right to the "pursuit of happiness" will only get one laughed at in court. Sorry.Na-uzo-billah! You may be right, but it shows how far the country has slid from its founding principles.
Take the admirable Benjamin Franklin. At only 18 he was sick enough of Ye-Olde-Sex-Prison-USA to make the arduous trip to Europe. From his teens to his seventies he cavorted in the RLDs of Paris and London. The brothels of those days were more like FKKs than brothels as we know them, because you could hang out and mingle a lot. An avid blogger, Ben Franklin would be 100% behind Phallus's idea to have an American FKK were he alive today. Though in practise, like me he would probably continue to favour sophisticated European beauties over Louisiana skanks.
"God grant, that not only the Love of Liberty, but a thorough Knowledge of the Rights of Man, may pervade all the Nations of the Earth, so that a Philosopher may set his Foot anywhere on its Surface, and say, 'This is my Country. '.
Thomas Jefferson was less interested in what the envious call "sex tourism". For the most part he preferred to stay in Virginia and contented himself with fucking the brains out of his slavegirl Sally -- every day, alles ohne, for about 20 years.
But both of them were so committed to this principle of the "Pursuit of Happiness" that they made sure it got into the Declaration of Independence, not as a footnote but right up there in the first few lines.
After spending some time in FKKs recently I don't think this could ever work in the USA. Germany is a very civilized society. You would figure a lot of douchebags in America would ruin a good thing very quickly.Considering the tipping and bragging culture, it would quickly become prohibitively expensive for the general public, because fat spoiled rich lovesick brats would try to outbid each other in paying more than the going rate in order to demonstrate how rich they are.
Sorry to inform you: But you are now banned from White House Press Briefings, because of your obvious reference to the President in your statement quoted above.
Careful. The President is a known contributor of content to this site!
UltraHappy
07-28-18, 01:40
Careful. The President is a known contributor of content to this site!Ah, I was wondering who was behind that handle that was producing all of that incoherent ranting. Finally an explanation!
It all makes sense now!
Member #4581
07-28-18, 02:13
Going by the amounts he was dispensing through his handler Cohen, it is clear that Donnie boy was single handedly responsible for overpaying and raising prices all over the place.
Typical American toursit. And he is not even Asian; has German DNA. Go figure. I thought thrift was in their genes. LOL
Member #4636
07-28-18, 04:34
Likes.
1. There is a huge difference in service from the girls. If you are lucky you can have 3-4 amazing sessions in just one visit but you can also have very disappointing sessions.
2. The view of the girls walking around naked. Especially when they bent over to speak to a customer and you see the view from behind!
3. The coffee is perfect. I like it everywhere I have been.
4. Outside areas is fun sometimes.
5. The rooms especially when they have air co and couches.
Dislikes.
1. in most clubs the entry fee has to be paid in cash and they don'why give you a receipt if you don't ask for. Which makes me think of possible tax evasion?
2. The food is under average.
3. I hate it when you enter the room and the girl jumps on the bed and starts opening her small bag to get all that shit and liquids to be prepared.
4. Jel on pussies just before fucking. It also destroys the feeling of licking.
5. Most girls want to charge extra BBBJ.
6. There are some girls which are often stunning that reject you when you approach them. I don't know why they have this diva look, at the end of the day they are there to be fucked only.
Feel free to continue!
The Jnpr30, RN, and NNC chat on overpaying set me thinking.
In recent years the tendency of most experienced members on this forum has been to reduce the amount of girl and club information they give. This has resulted I am guessing from the way that so many such members have reported in detail and then found either their favourite girl or club being overwhelmed by inexperienced new visitors who swamp the place or girl, and in some cases, try to buy the loyalty of girls by overpaying. Reporting in detail can seem to have only negative consequences for experienced members.
Very sad for the forum but completely understandable.
And just as background: I do report. And I in no way even hint at criticism of those who don't. I guess my sadness is around those who overpay for selfish reasons, with little regard for local custom and habit.
...In recent years the tendency of most experienced members on this forum has been to reduce the amount of girl and club information they give. This has resulted I am guessing from the way that so many such members have reported in detail and then found either their favourite girl or club being overwhelmed by inexperienced new visitors who swamp the place or girl, and in some cases, try to buy the loyalty of girls by overpaying....Even among mongers the cock-blocking instinct is not dead. As long as FKKs thrive and recruit extensive LUs this should not be too problematic. Expect this to get worse once supply starts shrinking though.
Speaking for myself I don't feel much cheated by this kind of behaviour, as I am into quickies with no blow-job preference. In fact my girls may be the ones most members here would not find girl-friendly enough. I am probably in competition for girls with Turkish customers, not with forum members.
Vito Corleone
07-28-18, 09:18
Likes.
1. There is a huge difference in service from the girls. If you are lucky you can have 3-4 amazing sessions in just one visit but you can also have very disappointing sessions.
2. The view of the girls walking around naked. Especially when they bent over to speak to a customer and you see the view from behind!
3. The coffee is perfect. I like it everywhere I have been.
4. Outside areas is fun sometimes.
5. The rooms especially when they have air co and couches.
Dislikes.Likes.
#3 & #5 are GT only reasons I visit GT.
Dislikes.
#5.
I don't bother with Frankfurt or oceans so it hasn't happened yet.
#6.
It happens to everyone. Just move on & pick another chick.
Likes.
1. There is a huge difference in service from the girls. If you are lucky you can have 3-4 amazing sessions in just one visit but you can also have very disappointing sessions.
2. The view of the girls walking around naked. Especially when they bent over to speak to a customer and you see the view from behind!
3. The coffee is perfect. I like it everywhere I have been.
4. Outside areas is fun sometimes.
5. The rooms especially when they have air co and couches.
Dislikes.Each time walking into FKK club, I get this excitement of new beauty that I am going to encounter who will be secured sex. I love this I am surely going to get first night of honeymoon style sex with new young beautiful stunner that I have not met before walking into FKK.
XXL. Your comments cheer me up :). You deprecate yourself: I know you are a man with a good eye for a girl.
Cheers.
In recent years the tendency of most experienced members on this forum has been to reduce the amount of girl and club information they give. Reports are not useful to me, unless there is some context. Often this means talking to and personally knowing the ISGer. Also, I've found that preferences matter. Based on what XXL's assessment of himself as someone who has a good time at Turkish clubs, I would assume that "emotional connection" does not carry much weight for him. For some mongers, this is where they derive the majority of their enjoyment. Payment details, session duration, whether one is a repeat customer, service preferences all help paint a more meaningful picture.
Some characteristics unique to me:
1. Optics-oriented: If extremely visually attracted to WG, I might perceive the session in a more positive light than it was. Good light and mirrors in rooms elevate how I perceive the experience.
2. Cheap most of the time, but high propensity to repeat and occasionally spend more: While not set in stone, I like my first 2-3 sessions with a WG to be strictly 50 EUR, so I prefer their greed for money to at least be well-camouflaged. This automatically repels me from certain WGs and in particular will cause me to perhaps be over-critical of the level of service at certain tourist clubs. My max times generally will not exceed 90 minutes, even for ATFs.
3. BJ oriented: I've met some guys who don't care much. For me, I don't consider it good service unless BJ is long. Problem is not many WGs will extend good faith to customers that fit my profile (see point two).
4. Cum oriented: I finish nearly every room. I don't go to the room unless, I am confident that I will finish within 30 minutes. If I am relatively fresh, I will aim for two pops in a longer 60-90 minutes session. I don't consider the session to be good, unless I finish. Although there were a few times, I overextended myself physically.
5. Body oriented: I have an abnormal fixation with the body, so this affects point one above. Face almost does not matter. It's not the tautness of skin or physical fitness and tone of the body, but the shape and relative proportions. This means I can occasionally be visually attracted to MILFs.
In recent years the tendency of most experienced members on this forum has been to reduce the amount of girl and club information they give. This has resulted I am guessing from the way that so many such members have reported in detail and then found either their favourite girl or club being overwhelmed by inexperienced new visitors who swamp the place or girl, and in some cases, try to buy the loyalty of girls by overpaying. Reporting in detail can seem to have only negative consequences for experienced members.
Very sad for the forum but completely understandable.
Even among mongers the cock-blocking instinct is not dead. As long as FKKs thrive and recruit extensive LUs this should not be too problematic. Expect this to get worse once supply starts shrinking though.This is what is to a large extent has been happening at GT for the last 2 years. Low supply and customers who are desperate for pussy will overpay by going 1-2 hours to a room with a girl even if they don't want to stay that long because they can only cum once or twice during the 1-2 hour period.
Barry Cumstien
07-28-18, 15:20
First thanks to the regulars. Lots of valuable information. Making my first trip soon as I had to fly through FKK land for holiday and decided to spend one overnight there and check it out. Trip report will come when I do.
My perception is the FKK is like the strip club scene here. Lots of the same opinions from regulars vs tourists. A couple observations pretrip and wondering if this applies to FKK too.
1. I know a lot of girls at the clubs and they fit into a couple categories. 1) Machines 60% - often self medicate and run through as much as they can. High volume and standard service. Will try for high rates and reduce as need be to make the sale. Enthusiasm can decline with rates 2) Elite - 10% - don't do everything they can and would rather do 2 than 10 for the same rate and who can blame them. Big tourist trap with optics. Some good some bad service especially if negotiate 3) Lifers - 10% -typically in open relationships and enjoy the scene. Standard rates and exceptional service. Mostly stick to regulars and selective as to who they entertain. 4) Newbies - 20% - haven't found there role yet. Service and rates not defined yet. A lot depends on their view of optics and chemistry.
Always exceptions, but find a lifer and in for a treat.
2. Can be intimidating for newbies. Even if experienced outside the club everything is defined: optics, services, rates, reviews. You know mostly what you are getting and there is no pressure because on your timeline and easy to move on. In the club, even if you research it's hard to remember everything since typically no pics available to make the name association. Inside the club you have time constraints, alcohol, the hard sell, and naked ladies all around that can make you think with the wrong head and make a poor decision.
3. Not sure how true, but after many conversations with girls in and out of the club. Not everyone even participates in the room. Some just want to medicate, talk, watch, or even self serve. And rates can very, so you may get super high quote from an elite girl for full activities and the next guy may just want to self serve at a much cheaper rate.
At a club, typically can have a drink and watch the room to get a feel for who is making the rounds, who is staying on their own, who is spending time chatting with which guys, which guys are tipping who on stage to get a feel for what category a girl might fall into.
For the regulars, how do you do it in FKK to find the right girl?
FKKs in America or not the legalization of prostitution in most states and it's effects on society would be an interesting scenario to see. I wonder how many girls I went to school with would be involved in sex industry.
McAdonis. Yes, individual responses are the things which count: we are all different. Reports on clubs and girls give a flavour of one person's experience, no more.
We are in different ways making the same point I think: suggesting that readers of the forum should not blindly follow reports.
My only addition is that without field reports the forum loses its main interest, in my view.
I read that study you linked, and can add a few things.
- the non homogenous market was mainly on the background of the girls. A bit counter to the main romanian / bulgarian FKK market. Although there are plenty from those two countries (and moldova) all over too.
- the 10 fold increase in internet ads as pointed out in the study is really just a 2 or a 3 fold increase as most girls run 2-5 adds each.
- many former streetwalkers before the new laws now mainly also run internet ads.
- a good reason for the increase is the expansion of low cost air travel and airbnb as opposed to high cost air travel and expensive hotels not allowing prostitution.
-Networking among prostitutes has increased, so the prostitutes know the real numbers. Talking to them are the key. Not some 'I know it all' professor making educated guesses and assumptions.Are you referring to Norway?
Are you referring to Norway?And Sweden.
Member #4581
07-28-18, 23:58
In my personal view, one can over-analyze these things too much. In matters of sex, the little head indeed should get a seat at the table if not an equal seat as the so called big head.
(many mongers may be packing relatively more gray matter in their little head compared to their big head. OK, I am not sure about the color of what they are packing there).
Yes, a newbie can't match names with faces. In my view, he should n't. Just below McA said reviews are generally useless because every review is so personal and every session can be YMMV type. You should go in, form your own views, figure out your own favorites, and make your own mistakes.
And wanting to avoid any kind of mistake is a mistake in itself. What is a mistake anyway? It is useful to know the basic price structure so that you don't unknowingly pay double or triple the standard rates. Other than that, you are a big boy and this is not rocket science.
In my opinion, reviews are useful in providing a picture of the general ambiance and ofc entertainment value. When I made my fist visit, I read the reviews and was slightly nervous -- more out of anticipation of all the good things to come -- but other than that, I always go in, see which girls I take a visual fancy to and talk to the girl, and decide what to do next. Quite simple.
First thanks to the regulars. Lots of valuable information. Making my first trip soon as I had to fly through FKK land for holiday and decided to spend one overnight there and check it out. Trip report will come when I do.
My perception is the FKK is like the strip club scene here. Lots of the same opinions from regulars vs tourists. A couple observations pretrip and wondering if this applies to FKK too.
1. I know a lot of girls at the clubs and they fit into a couple categories. 1) Machines 60% - often self medicate and run through as much as they can. High volume and standard service. Will try for high rates and reduce as need be to make the sale. Enthusiasm can decline with rates 2) Elite - 10% - don't do everything they can and would rather do 2 than 10 for the same rate and who can blame them. Big tourist trap with optics. Some good some bad service especially if negotiate 3) Lifers - 10% -typically in open relationships and enjoy the scene. Standard rates and exceptional service. Mostly stick to regulars and selective as to who they entertain. 4) Newbies - 20% - haven't found there role yet. Service and rates not defined yet. A lot depends on their view of optics and chemistry.
Always exceptions, but find a lifer and in for a treat.
2. Can be intimidating for newbies. Even if experienced outside the club everything is defined: optics, services, rates, reviews. You know mostly what you are getting and there is no pressure because on your timeline and easy to move on. In the club, even if you research it's hard to remember everything since typically no pics available to make the name association. Inside the club you have time constraints, alcohol, the hard sell, and naked ladies all around that can make you think with the wrong head and make a poor decision.
3. Not sure how true, but after many conversations with girls in and out of the club. Not everyone even participates in the room. Some just want to medicate, talk, watch, or even self serve. And rates can very, so you may get super high quote from an elite girl for full activities and the next guy may just want to self serve at a much cheaper rate.
At a club, typically can have a drink and watch the room to get a feel for who is making the rounds, who is staying on their own, who is spending time chatting with which guys, which guys are tipping who on stage to get a feel for what category a girl might fall into.
For the regulars, how do you do it in FKK to find the right girl?
Hi,
I will be visiting FKK clubs everyday for a week next week. I use Viagra for ED right now. Does anyone know if I should switch to Cialis instead as I have heard it lasts longer.
Worst case, I can take a couple of Viagras a day, but don't want to overdose.
Would Cialis be better to be able to perform for an entire day and recover faster?
Thanks.
5. Body oriented: I have an abnormal fixation with the body, so this affects point one above. Face almost does not matter. It's not the tautness of skin or physical fitness and tone of the body, but the shape and relative proportions. This means I can occasionally be visually attracted to MILFs.LOL, at least you know about it yourself. Anyway, I am trending towards that direction myself too. The other points you mention I have checked of for a long time. But the trending away from face towards body and proportions exclusively is something I wonder comes with years of experience of sex in clubs. One doesn't have sex with a face, one has sex with a body, and proportions are so important. Hence why I prefer normally below around 1.63, with the odd exceptions like Samia at GT (1.70 or so). But those tall girls with great proportions are very rare. Shorter girls, for me all the way down to 1.52 is fine, good proportions comes so much easier. I suppose these preferences may change dependant on ones own height as well.
If one just hangs around a girl in life elsewhere, and only sees her face most of the time with clothes on, then sure I can see people may start thinking face is more important, but in a way it is like an optical illusion. Like certain birds displays with feathers that ain't worth shit. When that is said, a cute face can be a bonus too. But only a bonus. After the main proportions are set. Now, I suppose people also disagree on proportions.
Hi,
I will be visiting FKK clubs everyday for a week next week. I use Viagra for ED right now. Does anyone know if I should switch to Cialis instead as I have heard it lasts longer.
Worst case, I can take a couple of Viagras a day, but don't want to overdose.
Would Cialis be better to be able to perform for an entire day and recover faster?
Thanks.I fixed my dick problem as I developed mild ED after second cum session at about third room in FKK and also I used Jaanese crazy masturbation so much that I got used to it.
What I do still is that first session I can go without any pill, but for second session since I do not want to risk it, I cut cialis into 4 and I consume it to have full steroid penis anytime I want so I can destroy girls pussy in room with my steroid penis at anytime I wish even she kills the mood with upselling then she is going to get my steroid hardcore doggy style punishment powered by cialis.
Any side affect is that after third day of taking quarter pill of cialis, I get mild red eyes and mild head aches, but nothing significant, plus point beside steroid penis at anytime of the day in FKK is that your tension on neck and shoulder tend to go away with cialis for me due to better blood flow.
It supposed to have peak period of 3 hours after consuming cialis, but for me, it works within 10 to 15 min not even after consuming it. I opt for cialis and with it I can do about 5 to 7 times room per day like I used to when I was in my late 20's when I began doing FKK trip.
And wanting to avoid any kind of mistake is a mistake in itself. What is a mistake anyway? What happens in Brothel stays in Brothel and we monger have to act like tute ourselves, as dirty as it can get.
Hi,
I will be visiting FKK clubs everyday for a week next week. I use Viagra for ED right now. Does anyone know if I should switch to Cialis instead as I have heard it lasts longer.
Worst case, I can take a couple of Viagras a day, but don't want to overdose.
Would Cialis be better to be able to perform for an entire day and recover faster?
Thanks.I started with Sildenafil, an official generic of Viagra. One full tablet gives me a killer headache so I had to go back to a half. Regardless, the results were unpredictable, often delayed beyond the needed moment. When the erection did arrive it would hang around longer than required, even without physical stimulation. For one week I would need to take a half each day and after two three days my body felt negative impact.
My doctor suggested a trial of Tadalafil, the Cialis generic. Again, a full tablet was too strong giving me a headache. Now, for a multi day trip, I take a half tablet the first day. The erection arrives when needed and hibernates when not. I take the second half day two. After that I'm good to play an additional two days without adding anything. With this program I don't have the headaches, have far less symptoms of low blood pressure and have personally had 14 hours of sexual activity over four days.
Pahllus Maximus
07-29-18, 07:40
But no constitutional challenge by those republicans proclaiming freedom but trying to do all they can to enmesh us in their Orwellian world.
Should be Fornication of Offshore Sex by Trump Act.
Most women are sluts for money and looking for alphas. Our heads are still largely 10,000 BC. I am sure a BJ for a scrap of food by the cave fire was going on 20,000 years ago.
Pahllus Maximus
07-29-18, 07:53
I reckon a FKK would do well in the USA but for the laws. Look at how casinos have flourished.
RedBull691
07-29-18, 12:57
Hi,
I will be visiting FKK clubs everyday for a week next week. I use Viagra for ED right now. Does anyone know if I should switch to Cialis instead as I have heard it lasts longer.
Worst case, I can take a couple of Viagras a day, but don't want to overdose.
Would Cialis be better to be able to perform for an entire day and recover faster?
Thanks.Having tried most pills etc on my personal experience with attending clubs over in hoormany I would switch to using Cialis if your looking for pills to last longer than 5 hrs. If your going to be in clubs for over 5 hrs then I would take Cialis or generic Cialis pill. This will last between 12 - 24 hrs. Best bet would be split pill in half take half first, then see how you get on. Later maybe say 4-5 hrs later if needed take the other half. That's what I have done in the past and always worked for me. I'm in my mid fifties now and managed to have 4- 5 sessions with the Cialis. Another favourite of mine is the Levitra or vardenafil pills in the generic form. Having taken 1 pill in a FKK or similar type club have easily managed 3-4 sessions no problem. These pills only last about 5-6 hrs but its my favourite at the moment. So roy punter if your looking for these type of pills etc I stock all and can be contacted here. Based in the UK but supply to most countries Europe, USA and the UK. Enjoy your time in Germany.
Having tried most pills etc on my personal experience with attending clubs over in hoormany I would switch to using Cialis if your looking for pills to last longer than 5 hrs. If your going to be in clubs for over 5 hrs then I would take Cialis or generic Cialis pill. This will last between 12 - 24 hrs. Best bet would be split pill in half take half first, then see how you get on. Later maybe say 4-5 hrs later if needed take the other half. That's what I have done in the past and always worked for me. I'm in my mid fifties now and managed to have 4- 5 sessions with the Cialis. Another favourite of mine is the Levitra or vardenafil pills in the generic form. Having taken 1 pill in a FKK or similar type club have easily managed 3-4 sessions no problem. These pills only last about 5-6 hrs but its my favourite at the moment. So roy punter if your looking for these type of pills etc I stock all and can be contacted here. Based in the UK but supply to most countries Europe, USA and the UK. Enjoy your time in Germany.And what about the side effects that come from taking all of these pills? What about the side effects? I have no need for pills at the moment thank God, but it's not like I'm getting any younger. So, I'm wondering about these pills and what the known side effects are. I know there are some. Who can provide reliable input regarding this inquiry?
And what about the side effects that come from taking all of these pills? What about the side effects? I have no need for pills at the moment thank God, but it's not like I'm getting any younger. So, I'm wondering about these pills and what the known side effects are. I know there are some. Who can provide reliable input regarding this inquiry?Red eye, mild headache, feel bit hot, but all these are very mild ones that you do not need to worry about.
I think there are no major side affect as far as cialis goes beside above and also one might get hooked mentally.
I can do about 3 session per day, but 4th one my dick begin to get weak inside while I am penetrating.
Above all, I like to have steroid level erection when I am in FKK especially when girls gives me bad attitude of up selling which can kill mood thus strong erection, I usually just go for 30 min doggy 50 euro session where girl gives me even more bad attitude during 50 euro session, so I need cialis powered steroid dick to beat her bad vibe in room and punish her doing hard core doggy banging LOL.
And what about the side effects that come from taking all of these pills? What about the side effects? I have no need for pills at the moment thank God, but it's not like I'm getting any younger. So, I'm wondering about these pills and what the known side effects are. I know there are some. Who can provide reliable input regarding this inquiry?The side effects of official ED drugs are well published, so I'm not sure how much I'll include, but I will include enough to cover my personal ethics.
I would recommend seeing a Eurologist if there is a time that you need something for ED. There are different therapies recommended depending on your situation. If you see the Eurologist for ED they will discuss the details with you, check your prostate for signs of cancer, perform an ultrasound to check the size and possibly perform a [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) flow test. It can be a bit embarrassing to discuss with the doctor, in my case she was about 32 years old, blond, Polish and could be a star in any Sauna Club. I think that is the true test if my ED was real or not. If the doctor determines you need a chemical bump to treat the ED, they will discuss the medication including side effects, recommend the frequency of use and write the prescription. In my earlier report I used the term, official generic. The medications I take come from the pharmacy and for ED drugs, my insurance covers a larger percentage for the generics than the name brand. I did try the name brands and noticed no benefits of paying the higher price.
I personally believe that any introduction of medications to the body upsets the chemical balance in the body. Long term regular use of a medication frequently results in needing a secondary medication to treat a side effect. I never thought about this until three years ago when I had a life changing event that required me to start taking one medication daily. Over the three years the effects have built up, with ED being one of them. Unfortunately, things are serios enough that more medications are piled on to treat the side effects and it can be a vicious cycle.
I'm sure everyone here has heard at least one story about Cardiac Infarction resulting from use of ED meds. Yes, this is a real possibility depending on your heart health, but even some heart patients can still receive a prescription for ED meds, it just requires a bit more time with the doctors and explanations of risks, symptoms and responsible use. Of course, there are the funny stories about the 12 hour erection, which does actually rarely happen, and in most reported cases is a very painful experience. Headaches are probably the most frequent side effect, followed by dizziness and fainting. What is commonly not understood is that ED meds tend to lower the blood pressure of the patient, which causes those symptoms. Dehydration is another cause of low bloodpressure. The combination of dehydration and ED drugs can cause the BP to drop to a dangerous level. Drinking alcohol during the heat wave, while participating in vigorous activities followed by a sauna while taking ED meds is risky behavior that could result in being wheeled out of the club on a stretcher.
On the positive side, for a man who hasn't had an erection in months, ED meds can provide a huge psychological boost. Not worrying that the erection won't arrise when called on or that you will suddenly suffer from sleepy dick in the middle of sex can help you relax allowing for a much better experience. For me, ED meds provided a boost that regenerated the natural process so I don't need the meds 100% of the time, instead I just need 100% more time. It's also nice to know that if needed, I have a helper available.
And what about the side effects that come from taking all of these pills? What about the side effects? I have no need for pills at the moment thank God, but it's not like I'm getting any younger. So, I'm wondering about these pills and what the known side effects are. I know there are some. Who can provide reliable input regarding this inquiry?Side effects are pretty minimal but of course they vary.
Apparently it is potentially life threatening to take poppers whilst taking these meds. And fatal to use a Glyceryl Trinitrate spray for angina with them
Others will know more than me.
FunExplorer
07-30-18, 12:55
And what about the side effects that come from taking all of these pills? What about the side effects? I have no need for pills at the moment thank God, but it's not like I'm getting any younger. So, I'm wondering about these pills and what the known side effects are. I know there are some. Who can provide reliable input regarding this inquiry?There is a dedicated forum for this:
Forum: Viagra & other Performance Enhancers.
I'm sure everyone here has heard at least one story about Cardiac Infarction resulting from use of ED meds. Yes, this is a real possibility depending on your heart health, but even some heart patients can still receive a prescription for ED meds, it just requires a bit more time with the doctors and explanations of risks, symptoms and responsible use. Of course, there are the funny stories about the 12 hour erection, which does actually rarely happen, and in most reported cases is a very painful experience. Headaches are probably the most frequent side effect, followed by dizziness and fainting. What is commonly not understood is that ED meds tend to lower the blood pressure of the patient, which causes those symptoms. Dehydration is another cause of low bloodpressure. The combination of dehydration and ED drugs can cause the BP to drop to a dangerous level. Drinking alcohol during the heat wave, while participating in vigorous activities followed by a sauna while taking ED meds is risky behavior that could result in being wheeled out of the club on a stretcher.
On the positive side, for a man who hasn't had an erection in months, ED meds can provide a huge psychological boost. Not worrying that the erection won't arrise when called on or that you will suddenly suffer from sleepy dick in the middle of sex can help you relax allowing for a much better experience. For me, ED meds provided a boost that regenerated the natural process so I don't need the meds 100% of the time, instead I just need 100% more time. It's also nice to know that if needed, I have a helper available.Cialis can also be beneficial for health if you do not have heart issue.
Personally, when I take them during my FKK trip (I take quarter pill per day, so keep it low dose), my tension on the shoulder and neck goes away, I believe it is due to better circulation of blood caused by cialis and somehow, maybe due to that, I tend to sleep better.
I would not go as far as low dose cialis is like low dose aspirin, but I think it also got benefits more than just steroid level erection because better blood circulation has numerous benefits on arteries and also preventing future ED if you do not have one.
When I was young in my later 20's when I discover German FKK 10 years ago, I could do about 5 to 7 rooms cum each room, but now I can do about 3 to 4 rooms max with last session being with weak erection trying to cum, so at German FKK trip that I do for about 7 straight days FKK everyday with some girls giving me bad attitude via upselling etc. I do need it.
UltraHappy
07-31-18, 01:50
The side effects of official ED drugs are well published, so I'm not sure how much I'll include, but I will include enough to cover my personal ethics.
I would recommend seeing a Urologist if there is a time that you need something for ED. There are different therapies recommended depending on your situation. If you see the Urologist for ED they will discuss the details with you, check your prostate for signs of cancer, perform an ultrasound to check the size and possibly perform a wee-wee flow test. On the other hand, if you're healthy and young (under 50) and you are upfront about why you need the ED drugs (for example, recreational use for marathon sex because on the third day in a row of all day sex in a sex club, sometimes a guy needs a little bump), then in my experience, the doctor just hands that stuff out like candy. No tests or anything (I mean, my Primary Care Physician already has all my health info from my annual check ups).
But, when you're young like me, you cut the pill up into quarters and only take a quarter dose on the third day in a row, late in the day to help push through on that last day. I mean, if I lived in Germany, I'd just wait to naturally recover before returning to the club, but when you're in Funland on a limited vacation, well, you don't have that luxury. As I'm taking such a limited dose, any side-effects I feel are quite limited. Most people taking such low doses only notice the side effects (stuffy nose) the first couple times they take it.
In fact, sometimes your doctor will give you samples of each drug so you can figure out which one works best for you. Even if you don't get samples, be sure to ask your Doc if he has any coupons. Those coupons from the drug pushers can make a huge different on your cost even when your insurance is subsidizing.
My personal favorite is Levitra. Works great and doesn't inhibit my ability to finish. Viagra is a much cheaper alternative for me, but I have found that it inhibits my ability to finish. I know different folks have different opinions about this, but I believe I have enough data points with both of these drugs to confidently conclude this is the case for me. Cialis also works for me, but I'd rather only have the drug in my system over that 5 hour period when I want it work and have it be out of my system when I'm not in the club. With Cialis, that stuff will be in my system for 36 hours supposedly. I know that's a benefit for some guys, but in my case, I like to minimize my exposure to drugs to the least effective dose.
Keep in mind that Viagra's patent and exclusivity period just expired in June, so generic Viagra is available in the US now, slightly cheaper than before. But, due to a "Pay for Delay" arrangement between Pfizer and the first generic company, at the moment, the first generic company (out of Israel) has a limited 6 month FDA exclusivity period with Viagra. Viagra also makes a generic Viagra now. So, there are two generic Viagras available in the US now, one from Pfizer and one from the Israeli company. In another 5 months, the price of generic Viagra should plummet once all the other generics flood the market. In any case, you might want to hold off stockpiling Viagra at the moment as the prices will drop next year.
Levitra goes generic in October of this year. I'm hoping that the price of Levitra will plummet quickly, because I'm very ready to get ready of my Viagra supply. I hope there's no "pay-for-delay" arrangement made with Levitra, prolonging my wait for Levitra another 6 months.
Yes, I understand that these drugs are available outside the States are greatly reduced prices, but I just prefer to get my stuff here Stateside. With my insurance and coupon, I was able to stockpile a ton of Viagra for almost free. But, I'm totally ready to throw that stuff away as soon as I get a cheap Levitra supply.
Two things I'm curious to know:
1. Has any of FKK clubs been shut down since the new Prostitution Law came into effect? What about other sex establishments? I brought it up because I read a article from Stuttgart Zeitung about many sex establishments threatening to close due to buildings not up to code or higher costs to refurbish them Link:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de%2Finhalt.prostitution-in-stuttgart-kommt-das-grosse-sterben-der-sexbetriebe.052d38a9-0a10-42a0-bbe0-09b04e676ae2.html&edit-text=&act=url.
2. What happened to that lawsuit that challenged the law on constitution grounds?
We need more master race in FKK like it once used to be, the moment people with painting all over body who like to ride motor bike lost their job in FKK industry decrease in master race began in FKK.
On the other hand, if you're healthy and young (under 50) and you are upfront about why you need the ED drugs (for example, recreational use for marathon sex because on the third day in a row of all day sex in a sex club, sometimes a guy needs a little bump), then in my experience, the doctor just hands that stuff out like candy. No tests or anything (I mean, my Primary Care Physician already has all my health info from my annual check ups).
Yes, I understand that these drugs are available outside the States are greatly reduced prices, but I just prefer to get my stuff here Stateside.Sounds like your Primary Care physician is pretty understanding. It's awesome to be young and healthy. For some of us those days are ancient history. I think it shows even in our approach in our posts.
Fortunately for me, I live in Europe and benefit from socialist medicine. Unlike many in the US that have never benefited from medicine provided as a benefit of higher taxes and controlled prices, I can say I'm in favor of it. After insurance I pay about €6 for 12 Taladafil and 24 Sildenafil, not a bad deal.
One point I tried to emphasize in my last post was responsible use and official sources. I have friends that order out of India, Thailand, China, etc. No disrespect to anyone, but I personally have limited trust in these unofficial sources. You never know if you're getting 25 percent the med, cut with 25 percent amphetamine and 50 percent purple koolaid.
UltraHappy
07-31-18, 12:26
Two things I'm curious to know:
2. What happened to that lawsuit that challenged the law on constitution grounds?The Federal constitutional court has accepted the constitutional complaint and scheduled a hearing for August, 2018:
http://prostitution2017.de/schutzgesetz/2018/02/24/prostitution-2018-verfassungsbeschwerde-prostschgesetz-auf-gerichts-agenda/
You can use Google translate to read the article if you do not speak German.
The Federal constitutional court has accepted the constitutional complaint and scheduled a hearing for August, 2018:
http://prostitution2017.de/schutzgesetz/2018/02/24/prostitution-2018-verfassungsbeschwerde-prostschgesetz-auf-gerichts-agenda/
You can use Google translate to read the article if you do not speak German.On the face of it this could be great news, but is there something in the ether about Radickal Feminists wanting a say in the court, where they will put forward the notion that the laws are to weak and criminalization of punters is the only solution?
BaltiX.
1. No club has been shut down as far as I know in the last year. It is unlikely (I think) that a club will be shut down because of action taken under the new law, but as you indicate, any club which upsets the authorities can more easily be closed under planning, building regulations or fire regulation infringements. This has happened in the past, and as you notice, will continue to happen. Prostitution in some cities has been almost eliminated by use of such tactics
2. The acceptance of the complaint does not give any indication of the likely final outcome.
Two things I'm curious to know:
1. Has any of FKK clubs been shut down since the new Prostitution Law came into effect? What about other sex establishments? I brought it up because I read a article from Stuttgart Zeitung about many sex establishments threatening to close due to buildings not up to code or higher costs to refurbish them Link:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de%2Finhalt.prostitution-in-stuttgart-kommt-das-grosse-sterben-der-sexbetriebe.052d38a9-0a10-42a0-bbe0-09b04e676ae2.html&edit-text=&act=url.
2. What happened to that lawsuit that challenged the law on constitution grounds?I read something that said Planet Eden, I think, had closed and as of 30 July it's listed for sale. The article stated the issues were related to neighbors complaining, police being called to resolve issues between men and between men and WGs.
I know that Living Room struggles with the authorities, and part of the problems are related to similar issues as referenced in the article. One issue was the requirement for alarms, another is for additional separate showers for the women, lockers / safes for the womens valuables, etc. This has had a huge impact on the business causing the closure of several rooms and costly modifications. I think we still wait to see most of the modifications be realized and there I feel there is a risk that the costs to become compliant may outweigh the benefits.
My last report is misleading. I forgot to say that clubs can, under the new law, be refused by the local authority licences to operate.
UltraHappy has posted an excellent link under the Artemis thread which gives a longterm look at the travails of Artemis and the attempts by authorities to get rid of it.
ExpatLover
07-31-18, 19:15
My last report is misleading. I forgot to say that clubs can, under the new law, be refused by the local authority licences to operate.
UltraHappy has posted an excellent link under the Artemis thread which gives a longterm look at the travails of Artemis and the attempts by authorities to get rid of it.At any time the local authorities can close a club and believe me it will happen in the coming years, the German women are upset by this so easy sex and putting big pressure on political.
My last report is misleading. I forgot to say that clubs can, under the new law, be refused by the local authority licences to operate.
UltraHappy has posted an excellent link under the Artemis thread which gives a longterm look at the travails of Artemis and the attempts by authorities to get rid of it.Yes, but they can be appealed. After reading the article about the Artemis article I think it was done to go after illegal immigration.
I read something that said Planet Eden, I think, had closed and as of 30 July it's listed for sale. The article stated the issues were related to neighbors complaining, police being called to resolve issues between men and between men and WGs.
I know that Living Room struggles with the authorities, and part of the problems are related to similar issues as referenced in the article. One issue was the requirement for alarms, another is for additional separate showers for the women, lockers / safes for the womens valuables, etc. This has had a huge impact on the business causing the closure of several rooms and costly modifications. I think we still wait to see most of the modifications be realized and there I feel there is a risk that the costs to become compliant may outweigh the benefits.Knowing the location of living room, I do understand if there is complaint by neighbors LOL.
If I live there as teenagers, as soon as I become legal age, I will knock on the door of living room as a customer LOL It is right in resident district of normal houses after going through some warehouses.
Yes, but they can be appealed. After reading the article about the Artemis article I think it was done to go after illegal immigration. So they said. That is the professed reason for pretty much all checks. The real reasons for focussing on a particular club or locality are less clear.
Yes, but they can be appealed. After reading the article about the Artemis article I think it was done to go after illegal immigration.I think it was done to go after unpaid tax and social securities more than other things artemis owners were accused of.
I also read funny article somewhere that former mayor of German cities young wife once worked in Artemis, which could be true as back in the days, I used to find quite many normal German hotties working there especially in over their summer vacations. Now Artemis is nest for plastic monsters with graffiti all over their body.
So they said. That is the professed reason for pretty much all checks. The real reasons for focussing on a particular club or locality are less clear.To me it seems they also focus heavily on cash and the criminal element in or behind the scenes of a club. If they find suspicious clues, they can use health code violations, facility deficiencies, etc to justify repeated return visits. Once a club is on the naughty list it seems a long process to work their way off.
UltraHappy
08-01-18, 12:18
So they said. That is the professed reason for pretty much all checks. The real reasons for focussing on a particular club or locality are less clear.Yes, and according to Professor Thomas Zacker who consults for these sorts of businesses, the police have a multitude of tools at their disposal that they typically employ during their controls (immigration, illegal drugs, administrative violations, tax issues, commercial right violations, customs, etc.). https://www.donacarmen.de/wp-content/uploads/Umsatzsteuer-im-Prostitutionsgewerbe.pdf.
Given that a control will often involve checks for many of these issues, the police can be quite effective in making difficulties for these business when they wish.
To me it seems they also focus heavily on cash and the criminal element in or behind the scenes of a club. If they find suspicious clues, they can use health code violations, facility deficiencies, etc to justify repeated return visits. Once a club is on the naughty list it seems a long process to work their way off.Artemis is one of or one of very few club that has in house medical doctor and treatment room, so for medical hygiene level it was good. As for pimping, owner was not involved in it as far as I know, but it was not like FKK ocean where they have big sign at the reception saying certain bike gang are not welcome etc.
I think it was more for unpaid tax and social benefit, plus some politicians wanted to appeal themselves to female and certain voters of Berlin. I was client of Artemis from 2009 till 2015 and I never experienced or saw anything media wrote about Artemis, they wrote Artemis as some kind of horror place. I mean it was not, it was most prompt brothel I have ever seen up until that time beside some up selling LOL.
Any posters here go to Globe? I've been once and was not impressed but does anyone besides Sirioja have an opinion comparing the line up in comparison to a club like Oase, Sharks, or Wellcum?
Any posters here go to Globe? I've been once and was not impressed but does anyone besides Sirioja have an opinion comparing the line up in comparison to a club like Oase, Sharks, or Wellcum?I don't know Wellcum, and I've only made 10 or so visits to Sharks, but I've been many times to Oase and Globe. One difference between Globe and Oase / Sharks is that some optical filtering is applied to prospective workers. There's the odd one at Globe that seems a bit plus sized, but nothing like the scale of that huge Asian woman at Sharks. Age filters are also applied to new girls, but there are a few long-termers at Globe who won't see 39 again.
IMHO the average optic level is higher at Globe, but I think the top handful of girls (optically) is similar at most big clubs I've been to in Germany or in Globe.
Any posters here go to Globe? I've been once and was not impressed but does anyone besides Sirioja have an opinion comparing the line up in comparison to a club like Oase, Sharks, or Wellcum?I have been once also, I was impressed with service because it is exactly as its reputation and my expectation was filled, food on Sunday brunch was good and value for money as I went on Sunday, but line up was not good as I expected and there were about 20 girls max during my visit.
However, my expectation for line up was too good prior to going to globe and being there on Sunday actually also affected line up I think, to look back there were no fat girl or girl who are below 6 in scale of 10. But I did not see any 8, 9 or 10 I only saw mostly 7 or 7.5 in optical level, but again I was there on Sunday from opening time till like around 4 pm, but globe is day time club, so I believe all line up would be there by 4 pm?
It is hard club to stay whole day as only out side area is roof area, which I kind of like if it is empty to chill out. Other thing I did not like is that some rooms are bit too dark, so hard to see girls.
I would return for normal weekdays again to see if line up would be better at globe.
However, some German FKK begin to offer 100 euro per 30 min session for DFK, BBBJ etc, to avoid annoying killing mood negotiation and not secure service delivery, it maybe wise to throw in globe for mongering trip.
I don't know Wellcum, and I've only made 10 or so visits to Sharks, but I've been many times to Oase and Globe. One difference between Globe and Oase / Sharks is that some optical filtering is applied to prospective workers. There's the odd one at Globe that seems a bit plus sized, but nothing like the scale of that huge Asian woman at Sharks. Age filters are also applied to new girls, but there are a few long-termers at Globe who won't see 39 again.
IMHO the average optic level is higher at Globe, but I think the top handful of girls (optically) is similar at most big clubs I've been to in Germany or in Globe.Ah I see. Basically my impression too. The top 3-5 girls are similar in quality. There just are no 4's and 5's bringing down the average. So basically, not worth a revisit for me at that price point.
Can anyone list which FFK they know off where no phones are allowed?
I know most in Cologne don't allow but where else.
Between sessions I need to surf net for whatvever reason and just get bored with no internet.
I have been once also, I was impressed with service because it is exactly as its reputation and my expectation was filled, food on Sunday brunch was good and value for money as I went on Sunday, but line up was not good as I expected and there were about 20 girls max during my visit.
However, my expectation for line up was too good prior to going to globe and being there on Sunday actually also affected line up I think, to look back there were no fat girl or girl who are below 6 in scale of 10. But I did not see any 8, 9 or 10 I only saw mostly 7 or 7.5 in optical level, but again I was there on Sunday from opening time till like around 4 pm, but globe is day time club, so I believe all line up would be there by 4 pm?
It is hard club to stay whole day as only out side area is roof area, which I kind of like if it is empty to chill out. Other thing I did not like is that some rooms are bit too dark, so hard to see girls.
I would return for normal weekdays again to see if line up would be better at globe.
However, some German FKK begin to offer 100 euro per 30 min session for DFK, BBBJ etc, to avoid annoying killing mood negotiation and not secure service delivery, it maybe wise to throw in globe for mongering trip.I do agree with MR Ho on line up at Globe. I went there one time on Tuesday without any room. I did not see any 8 above girls. The club is somewhat dark inside. Food was ok, Wellness was ok too. However, to make a 10 plus hours in there can be hard.
I do agree with MR Ho on line up at Globe. I went there one time on Tuesday without any room. I did not see any 8 above girls. The club is somewhat dark inside. Food was ok, Wellness was ok too. However, to make a 10 plus hours in there can be hard.The thing is I had too much of high expectation, so it is my bad too. Now that I look back, I did not see many plastic monsters or overly fat girls etc at globe that german FKK has to cater to certain clients who seeks for that, which is not me.
I will give it another try on week days again because service was as good as I heard, it is just that I had too much of high expectation for line up due to its high reputation. I mostly saw 7 and 7.5 and I did not see many 6 or lower for optic of girls, so I still have hope that it is worth the visit club if one is feeling bit sick and tired of negotiation in german FKK after the law.
Can anyone list which FFK they know off where no phones are allowed?
I know most in Cologne don't allow but where else.
Between sessions I need to surf net for whatvever reason and just get bored with no internet.You want to use a phone inside a club, so wouldn't it be easier to list the few clubs that do allow phones?
Most clubs don't allow phones in the club area where the men and women mingle, so you'd be restricted to sitting on the toilet or spending time in changing rooms.
GT allows phones, but that is absolutely necessary there because you probably won't be doing many sessions unless you like to spend E50 on mediocre women that you can pick up for free at any normal bar. The GT main lounge area is full of men wearing white bathrobes staring at their cell phones, so expect to pay E60 entrance fee for a shitty line-up, shitty WiFi, quite shitty 3 G / LTE coverage inside the club, loooooong waiting times for a room key if you get lucky and finally happen to find a woman, quite good food (for FKK-Sauna club standards), and a nice garden area for this kind of hot weather.
Can anyone list which FFK they know off where no phones are allowed?
I know most in Cologne don't allow but where else.
Between sessions I need to surf net for whatvever reason and just get bored with no internet.Can use your phone at Samya. Mainly forbidden around Frankfurt, but can use in clubs entries, or in room with girls.
Can anyone list which FFK they know off where no phones are allowed?
I know most in Cologne don't allow but where else.
Between sessions I need to surf net for whatvever reason and just get bored with no internet.Sharks and Artemis are quite strict against phone usage.
However, some German FKK begin to offer 100 euro per 30 min session for DFK, BBBJ etc, to avoid annoying killing mood negotiation and not secure service delivery, it maybe wise to throw in globe for mongering trip.Indeed, its silly. If its going to be the norm at some German clubs, they should better tell us at reception so that we can leave, or at least plan accordingly to avoid the awkward mood killing upsell stuff. If they keep telling people its 50, but then less and less girls go for 50, then you start to feel pretty screwed over. But it is headed that way now one or two places.
People don't go to FKK's to hustle for money. They go there to relax. And knowing the prices beforehand makes people relax.
Any posters here go to Globe? I've been once and was not impressed but does anyone besides Sirioja have an opinion comparing the line up in comparison to a club like Oase, Sharks, or Wellcum?Even my eyes were so often burned from snow and sun in high mountains, I even had to drive to Paris from Tignes, after only skiing 1 morning on late August 1998, eyes crying with view becoming black, but my girlfriend at this time was waiting for me, but when you love woman beauty, you can't compare Oase girls, look at them without heels and their skin in the sun in the garden, same for most of Sharks girls, with care and sophisticated looks for some girls at Globe. Wellcum was high level for looks on August 2017, will see on this year.
About level in bed, when you like woman behavior, not same planet, no upselling, sometimes I wonder why they give so much, when I'm not a big money regular at Globe, nor a Swiss, of course I know my manners pay in whole FKK land, but when girls like you, they give time and some services for free.
Of course, if You prefer little girls types, then don t go to Globe, but Oase or Sharks or Aca or Samya.
Of course, can sometimes find a top girl in Germany, I had some, I built for my tastes some.
Can anyone list which FFK they know off where no phones are allowed?
I know most in Cologne don't allow but where else.
Between sessions I need to surf net for whatvever reason and just get bored with no internet.To add to what others have said, you can use phones in The Living Room, Acapulco, Park Sauna Residence. Feudenhaus Dortmund, XS Bochum, their sister club in Munster, YinYang, SixSens all have restricted phone use policies.
The thing is I had too much of high expectation, so it is my bad too. Now that I look back, I did not see many plastic monsters or overly fat girls etc at globe that german FKK has to cater to certain clients who seeks for that, which is not me.
I will give it another try on week days again because service was as good as I heard, it is just that I had too much of high expectation for line up due to its high reputation. I mostly saw 7 and 7.5 and I did not see many 6 or lower for optic of girls, so I still have hope that it is worth the visit club if one is feeling bit sick and tired of negotiation in german FKK after the law.Globe best casting days are from Thursday to Saturday, with more than 50 girls, and some Germans.
30 mn are now 130 €, for high level in bed, no upselling, and some really sexy girls. For Romanian brunettes lovers, full natural Tina is just delicious, as a passionate GF.
Indeed, its silly. If its going to be the norm at some German clubs, they should better tell us at reception so that we can leave, or at least plan accordingly to avoid the awkward mood killing upsell stuff. If they keep telling people its 50, but then less and less girls go for 50, then you start to feel pretty screwed over. But it is headed that way now one or two places.
People don't go to FKK's to hustle for money. They go there to relax. And knowing the prices beforehand makes people relax.Yeah man, for me it is not extra 50 euro I am stingy about. It is about all this negotiation, in room, not secure feeling if she is going to deliver as she promised etc. This I really do not like and kills the mood of the session.
Now, I tell her up front, look I go for one hour or more, but I want this this and this or we can go for 50 euro 30 min session which I will bang her hard doggy position to punish her bad behavior with my cialis powered steroid hard penis LOL.
If it is stunner, I do not mind going for 1. 5 hour or 2 hours session as long as session is good and I can cum few times. So I do let girls know I am good enough business for them as long as it is reasonable meaning if service is delivered or if not, I am 50 euro guy if she gives me some irrational offer.
My favorite line for such girls is. Baby listen I am in FKK business much longer than you LOL.
BigBuddy69
08-04-18, 21:51
It's forbidden in Aca Gold despite the fact it's authorized in Aca Velbert.
To add to what others have said, you can use phones in The Living Room, Acapulco, Park Sauna Residence. Feudenhaus Dortmund, XS Bochum, their sister club in Munster, YinYang, SixSens all have restricted phone use policies.That should sum it up as to which clubs allow phones. A correction to another poster who says phones are allowed at Samya, it is not allowed there although that rule is loosely enforced. You can use it in the lobby and can get away with it in the upstairs "terrace" but definitely forbidden in the lounge and dining areas.
I think that in the FKK clubs in Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands and Austria as an integrated region where Romanian WGs dominate and their half-hour and one-hour rates are 50 euro or more, How good the optics of top 20% WGs in a club is irrelevant to how high the WG's half-hour and one-hour rates in that club are. How good the optics of top 20% WGs in a club is mainly determined by how much freedom and discretion in terms of the level of their service to mongers under the club rule and management the WGs have. More freedom and discretion of the level of their service to mongers the WGs in a club have, higher optics of its top 20% WGs that club usually has.
So if a monger is more interested in WG's optics, he would have better chance to find more WGs with top optics in the clubs with no service requirement imposed by the club managements like most of the tourist clubs, but he would take bigger chance to compromise the WG's service he gets. If a monger is more interested in WG's service, he would have better chance to find more WGs with good serviice in the clubs with strict service requirement imposed by the club managements like LR and some other smaller clubs, but he would take chance not to find the WGs with top optics he likes. For the mongers who are interested in both optics and service and have limited budgets to spend, the best way to do it is to go to the relatively bigger well-known service clubs like LR and find the WGs there with the optics they like.
In selecting the WGs who provide good service, which is often difficult to many mongers, you either pass this task to the club management by going to the service clubs which their managements already screened out the WGs because of their good service requirement rule, or take this task yourself, which can often result in hit-and-miss. The choice is yours.
With regards to the clubs in Switzerland, as I mentioned in the beginning of my post, the optics of top 20% WGs would be the same as any bigger clubs in Germany. If you go there for WG's optics, you are waste of your money.
With regards to the clubs in Switzerland, as I mentioned in the beginning of my post, the optics of top 20% WGs would be the same as any bigger clubs in Germany. If you go there for WG's optics, you are waste of your money.I agree with this 100%. Also for me, it would be a waste to go to Switzerland in search of the best service too since I already normally get great service to my satisfaction in "Germongery", and at superior pricing. I have said this before though, and will say it again. I did have the best BBBJ / CIM service in my life at Club Globe. But here's the thing. The girl was from Brazil, and for me, her talents said more about my favorite mongering destination of Brazil than it did anything about superior service at Globe. Her skills served only to further solidify my view that Brazil is the top mongering destination of them all!
I think that in the FKK clubs in Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands and Austria as an integrated region where Romanian WGs dominate and their half-hour and one-hour rates are 50 euro or more, How good the optics of top 20% WGs in a club is irrelevant to how high the WG's half-hour and one-hour rates in that club are. How good the optics of top 20% WGs in a club is mainly determined by how much freedom and discretion in terms of the level of their service to mongers under the club rule and management the WGs have. More freedom and discretion of the level of their service to mongers the WGs in a club have, higher optics of its top 20% WGs that club usually has.
So if a monger is more interested in WG's optics, he would have better chance to find more WGs with top optics in the clubs with no service requirement imposed by the club managements like most of the tourist clubs, but he would take bigger chance to compromise the WG's service he gets. If a monger is more interested in WG's service, he would have better chance to find more WGs with good serviice in the clubs with strict service requirement imposed by the club managements like LR and some other smaller clubs, but he would take chance not to find the WGs with top optics he likes. For the mongers who are interested in both optics and service and have limited budgets to spend, the best way to do it is to go to the relatively bigger well-known service clubs like LR and find the WGs there with the optics they like..Now, on 2018, all girls, mainly among the prettiest, don't provide real DFK or BBBJ at LR, despite management. If we have to go with GND to get real GFE services, I don't pay for GND.
At Globe, you have beauties, real GFE services, and even sometimes passion.
DFK and BBBJ are still quite standard at GT and Sharks, but not among the prettiest at LR. LR 2018 is not anymore LR 2016/2017 where I was every weekend.
I meant: ... If you go there for WG's optics, you waste your money.
Can use your phone at Samya. Mainly forbidden around Frankfurt, but can use in clubs entries, or in room with girls.At Samya, girls use their phone on terraces downstairs, close to restaurant, on 1st floor, and also possible in entry and downstairs, and in rooms.
I agree with this 100%. Also for me, it would be a waste to go to Switzerland in search of the best service too since I already normally get great service to my satisfaction in "Germongery", and at superior pricing. I have said this before though, and will say it again. I did have the best BBBJ / CIM service in my life at Club Globe. But here's the thing. The girl was from Brazil, and for me, her talents said more about my favorite mongering destination of Brazil than it did anything about superior service at Globe. Her skills served only to further solidify my view that Brazil is the top mongering destination of them all!Globe is good for BBBJ DFK DATY session, but for Dr Anal LOL, it will be too pricey and not worth it. Also for CIM lovers, it will be more pricey and not worth it.
For full 30 min is 30 min session, Globe is worth flying in for one night stay two full day session if flight is reasonable price.
Look at Palace or Artemis they charge similar to Globe now and service is still not secured to be delivered and it is real annoying to negotiate etc.
Duss is only hope now.
I meant: ... If you go there for WG's optics, you waste your money.I drive more than 1000 kms each week end, only for beauties, not for GND, and when I succeed to find a attractive look, if she is nice behavior, I have no problem to make the job to make her become good for my tastes. I did many times, and they became my weekly regulars for months. Really enjoyable to experience a girl improving for you, much better for me than fucking a GND performer.
Same to get AO some pretty girls who become crazy hot for sex, not so difficult with some German girls, much more enjoyable than ugly girls fucked AO whole day by anybody, and no extra asked, just: When you come again? And same on next times, even without never asking for, just fluent passionate sex.
At Samya, girls use their phone on terraces downstairs, close to restaurant, on 1st floor, and also possible in entry and downstairs, and in rooms.At Samya, big sign that says "Verboten" next to a picture lf a cell phone as you enter the lounge.
At Samya, big sign that says "Verboten" next to a picture lf a cell phone as you enter the lounge.True, but not what happens for real at Samya, and so friendly Turkish staff just want we feel good at Samya. They seem also very friendly with their girls.
Unfortunately, casting is not bad with some sexy girls, but except Katea, quite low level in bed at Samya among most of pretty girls.
I drive more than 1000 kms each week end, only for beauties, not for GND, and when I succeed to find a attractive look, if she is nice behavior, I have no problem to make the job to make her become good for my tastes. I did many times, and they became my weekly regulars for months. Really enjoyable to experience a girl improving for you, much better for me than fucking a GND performer.
Same to get AO some pretty girls who become crazy hot for sex, not so difficult with some German girls, much more enjoyable than ugly girls fucked AO whole day by anybody, and no extra asked, just: When you come again? And same on next times, even without never asking for, just fluent passionate sex.But AO club no longer exist right?
True, but not what happens for real at Samya, and so friendly Turkish staff just want we feel good at Samya. They seem also very friendly with their girls.
Unfortunately, casting is not bad with some sexy girls, but except Katea, quite low level in bed at Samya among most of pretty girls.I have never seen a monger use the phone openly in the lounge or the dining area. And I have only seen the girls use the phone during the daytime before the boss arrives and only discreetly at night in the outside smoking area. No one blatantly had their phones out. That is what happens for real.
UltraHappy
08-07-18, 02:42
But AO club no longer exist right?That's right Mr. Ho. And, not a single BBBJ to be found in the entire Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
And speeding is illegal in Germany now also, so there is no one anywhere in Germany who ever drives over the speed limit either anymore.
We are lucky the Germany are such a law-abiding people.
Unfortunately, casting is not bad with some sexy girls, but except Katea, quite low level in bed at Samya among most of pretty girls.Have you tried Madalina or Kiara? I don't know if there any worse performers than Katea.
That's right Mr. Ho. And, not a single BBBJ to be found in the entire Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
And speeding is illegal in Germany now also, so there is no one anywhere in Germany who ever drives over the speed limit either anymore.
We are lucky the Germany are such a law-abiding people.Openly is what I meant.
I think that in the FKK clubs in Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands and Austria as an integrated region where Romanian WGs dominate and their half-hour and one-hour rates are 50 euro or more, How good the optics of top 20% WGs in a club is irrelevant to how high the WG's half-hour and one-hour rates in that club are. How good the optics of top 20% WGs in a club is mainly determined by how much freedom and discretion in terms of the level of their service to mongers under the club rule and management the WGs have. More freedom and discretion of the level of their service to mongers the WGs in a club have, higher optics of its top 20% WGs that club usually has..Well written, and I agree to a large amount.
But there are additional criterias also influencing the amounts of top optics. Such as prices, size of local population and amount of tourists in the area. In addition to this comes in-house rivalry between girls or groups of girls. Good food, new facilities, enough rooms and management who are nice to them (all sorts of things) also afflicts this number.
Most clubs I have been to seems to have a story of their own, so finding a standard rule for all of this gets very tricky. But good clubs to analyze is Oase / Sharks (upselling game / number of girl / tourists), the two NL clubs of YY / SS (optics / service), Wellcum / Marina / GT Vienna (location is a key trigger here), and in nrw it all just floats together in one chaotic mess due to high competition. But it is perhaps the most important region if you have enough data on it. But here on ISG you won't find that with any poster, and you would need to spend alot of time there.
And in the end, no matter which club you go to, only a short handfull of them are satisfied with their own income. And those are the girls who are very good in the room, and have top optics. Sometimes causing jealousy or rivalry with other girls. Spurring the invention of girl imposed restrictive rules once other girls sniffs it out. And these are things management has a very hard time to take a note of. And the information management can get might just as well be fake.
Have you tried Madalina or Kiara? I don't know if there any worse performers than Katea.I never noticed both.
You mean Katea was so bad for you? She stays my record for longest time in room for our first. She was great for me, real Siberian fire, at least for sex.
Valeria is super sexy, Alyssa was also, Francesca and her sister Aria are pretty, but can't compete with Katea for sex. Maybe Mariana can?
Polyamorist
08-08-18, 11:41
And those are the girls who are very good in the room, and have top optics. Sometimes causing jealousy or rivalry with other girls. Spurring the invention of girl imposed restrictive rules once other girls sniffs it out. And these are things management has a very hard time to take a note of. And the information management can get might just as well be fake. Hamdulillah, Pistons! So true. This is why it is not usually a good thing if you enter an FKK and the girls are talking to each other more than they are talking to the customers. The problem is that whenever girls get together in a group it is the worst girls who predominate, not the best, and then the whole group will be held to a single mediocre standard and the customers will be seen as the "other side" or even as intruders in the shared house of the girls. I've been seeing this in some smaller FKKs lately, and it is a deadly atmosphere if the management allows it.
So the key factor for FKK success is that the girls be *independent*. The management doesn't necessarily have to insist that all girls give good service like Globe tries to. All it has to do is ensure that girls can give good service *if they want to* -- and then sit back and let natural market logic take over. The best girls will triumph if they are allowed to.
What can be done to encourage independence?
1. High Turnover. This is one FKK management have trouble accepting. They are always trying to minimize the number of girls leaving. But from a customer perspective it is terrible if the same girls hang around for years and become jaded and entitled and see they can get away with poor service and then encourage new girls to act the same way. We observe that the better clubs are clubs where there are always new faces, doing their own thing.
2. The girls should be genuine freelancers, not on any salary scheme. In many FKKs I have a hard time believing that the girls are real freelancers because many are not getting any customers (nor seem motivated to) and could not survive if their income was results-based.
3. Diversity. The last few years has been a diversity catastrophe in the FKK scene. If the girls are all of one nationality, they are all going to collude, and it is going to be hard for more exotic and independent girls to gain a foothold.
These things should be obvious to FKK management but mostly they don't seem to give a damn, and are content to subsist on just a few customers and blame reduced business on "increased competition" and "market saturation" and other total BS.
Not sure a high turnover is a requirement if the girls are nice. You don't want to loose the top girls.
At Wellcum now I fear the high turnover is posing dangerous threats to the club. Lineup was extremely strong last summer and until this spring. But from what I understand now, the number of top lookers and top performers have more than halved.
And the management just kicked out several girls, at least one of them being a 10/10 girl. Unbelievable. (I don't know which other girls got kicked out, but I noticed one more top girl was gone a week after when the lineup was updated too).
Maybe they though some of these girls were bad apples, but the one girl I know got kicked out was a star and definitely not a bad apple.
Polyamorist
08-08-18, 20:42
Not sure a high turnover is a requirement if the girls are nice. You don't want to loose the top girls.Salaam Pistons. "High Turnover" implies gain as well as loss. I'm assuming that an FKK will beef up its recruiting efforts to compensate for the girls it loses. And yes, obviously it wants to keep the top girls. I'm concerned about all the "filler girls" who stick around for years and appear to be there just to pad the numbers. If they aren't doing business, all they will be doing is gossiping and hurting the attitude of those who are.
Diversity. The last few years has been a diversity catastrophe in the FKK scene. If the girls are all of one nationality, they are all going to collude, and it is going to be hard for more exotic and independent girls to gain a foothold.The only ones beating down the doors of the FKK clubs looking for work are the RO girls. The non-RO WGs seem to be on average a decade older. Some posit that increasing "official rates" or abolishing 50 EUR /30 min rate, would increase more diversity. But if they increased the rates, I think that would lead to reduced customer traffic. Or perhaps the same customer traffic, but men taking fewer sessions.
The only ones beating down the doors of the FKK clubs looking for work are the RO girls. The non-RO WGs seem to be on average a decade older. Some posit that increasing "official rates" or abolishing 50 EUR /30 min rate, would increase more diversity. But if they increased the rates, I think that would lead to reduced customer traffic. Or perhaps the same customer traffic, but men taking fewer sessions.Its hard to say, but if taking Wellcum, marina, Artemis and GT Vienna into account. All clubs with 60 or 70 e per 30 min, they all have more Bulgarians than the 40/50 euro clubs. The only 50 euro club I know of with a fairly large Bulgarian contageant is Oceans. Maybe its random. Maybe not. At other 50 e clubs its just one or two Bulgarians, like Vicki at SS. I know many consider Bulgarians to be the same lot, but they do tend to have their own group. Same with the clubs with some Germans. But you can find Africans, Dominicans and some Asians too. They are just normally so few that they don't have their own groups. But then tend to mingle with the other non Romanians somehow. And occasionally are let into some Romanian groups.
Not 100% sure on the fewer session idea. Upselling could be reduced by introducing a small price hike to 60 or 70. The idea is that service would then go up, and lineup should improve due to less top girls quitting / moving onto apartment section of the industry. Even if that doesn't always mean a higher income. But the few girls reasoning to do that, is that they don't need to make as many rooms for the same amount of money. This argument would then lose some of its appeal.
Some of us may also then stay longer at each club without club hopping if lineups are better. Thus saving money on fuel and entry costs in the long run, and get left without these occational visits where don't make a single room.
I considered a trip to Artemis in the past to be fine for stays of up to one week. I would consider the same at Wellcum (last August and March lineup at least). But in the western German clubs, not many clubs would be able to keep me around for several days straight for various reasons dependent on the club in question.
The biggest issue with this is probably the total mongering pie of money being pretty stable no matter if the price is at 40,50 or 60 e. At 70 e I fear the total cashpool would shrink. At least in Germany. But not by a lot, and it could be weighed up by a better top 20 and worse optical lineup field from 40-60, or a reduced lineup in numbers. At 80 e, this competition would probably narrow down the girls numbers even more and the total cashpool would shrink even more.
The 50 e is thus not just a communistic social pricing scheme for the customers, but it also works like that for the girls as it employs more girls the lower the cost. Until service / looks gets so low on the girls offering it that nobody wants to pay it any longer. Now the question we are discussing in here ad nauseum for the past year or two, could be summed up into being weather or not this current cut of 50 e lowers the line below that threshold or not. And therefore actually shrinking the total pie, instead of increasing it. My personal opinion is that it has in most of the clubs. Only a few clubs are able to still keep the threshold above water, but even there, some / most girls are not happy, and upselling has then increased. Ruining the entire system from within.
The only ones beating down the doors of the FKK clubs looking for work are the RO girls. The non-RO WGs seem to be on average a decade older. Some posit that increasing "official rates" or abolishing 50 EUR /30 min rate, would increase more diversity. But if they increased the rates, I think that would lead to reduced customer traffic. Or perhaps the same customer traffic, but men taking fewer sessions.We are lucky to have Romanian beauties for cheap rate, some are lovely and I love them.
Without Romanians, most of few Germans would not accept to work for such cheap rate. Romanians are better GF for me, even some Germans are crazy hot in bed.
With registration, new Germans will become more and more rare. Romanians are FKK land future, and I'm happy about that.
Business seem more and more slow, not only at LR, but also at big Sharks, and even at GT out of week ends. At Oase, it's because of many girls fault, trying to fuck clients.
We are lucky to have Romanian beauties for cheap rate, some are lovely and I love them.
Without Romanians, most of few Germans would not accept to work for such cheap rate. Romanians are better GF for me, even some Germans are crazy hot in bed.
With registration, new Germans will become more and more rare. Romanians are FKK land future, and I'm happy about that.
Business seem more and more slow, not only at LR, but also at big Sharks, and even at GT out of week ends. At Oase, it's because of many girls fault, trying to fuck clients.When supply is sufficient, one begin not to see how value-able things or people are. I lately begin to appreciate Romanians girls too.
If German girls supply is sufficient, and Romanians are rare, then I would have been like where is Romanian beauties LOL.
Sirioja: it might have something to do with the lineups falling at LR, sharks and gt. At Oase the lineup is strong in optics, but then also upselling increases. Sure sharks still have some doable girls, but I feel that when I find some new top girls there, most of them don't stick around very long. Unfortunately since one would think they'd make a lot of money at sharks if they tried. Some top sharks girls do make a lot of money. But maybe the girls got to start thinking more as a unity and hope for the club to have 10 top girls and not just 2-3.
Romanians are FKK land past, present and future. But also the germans are figuring out that the new law isn't so utterly bad. And it is summer break at its peak. Compared to last year, things arent so bad. Today I spotted 8-10 germans in GT and same amount in YY.
With registration, new Germans will become more and more rare. Romanians are FKK land future, and I'm happy about that.
Business seem more and more slow, not only at LR, but also at big Sharks, and even at GT out of week ends. At Oase, it's because of many girls fault, trying to fuck clients.
Personally I don't look at a Romanian girl as different from a German, Russian, Italian, Bulgarian or whatever other European country of origin. The variation within Romania is way too large for that. And it strikes me as odd how anyone can.
Romanians are FKK land past, present and future. But also the germans are figuring out that the new law isn't so utterly bad. And it is summer break at its peak. Compared to last year, things arent so bad. Today I spotted 8-10 germans in GT and same amount in YY.There will be other nationalities added eventually too, let us hope that would from eastern European nations because girls tend to be very beautiful there.
I believer Romanians and Bulgarians joined Schengen or EU related visa treaty right? That is why Romanian girls dominate line up, also the fact that there is efficient system developed for them to work in FKK thanks to business model lover boys and pimps who is the blood line for such business model and we are the lucky happy mongers on demand and need side. Let us hope more of such system will be developed in future from other Eastern European nations.
Romanians are FKK land past, present and future. But also the germans are figuring out that the new law isn't so utterly bad. And it is summer break at its peak. Compared to last year, things arent so bad. Today I spotted 8-10 germans in GT and same amount in YY.Yes, GT have a German team, like it had always been.
Some Germans work now in NL because of registration.
A German team also now at Globe, about 5 girls. Yesterday I tried very pretty blond Finnja from Hamburg, very friendly, real will to please, but she was my first girl for only 30 mn at Globe, even kissing, DATY, not so sure about her YamaYama she claimed even she became really sensitive with hard nipples, BBBJ and fucking missionary and doggy, but 30 mn were just enough with her, and she returned to me later to ask for a second round, but can t compete with the legendary, from deep Moldavian part of Romania, Katalina who is close to 30 yo, but what a woman who was my real expensive = 390 €, pleasure, taking my time to dream with her for 1 h30.
Some German girls can be crazy horny to say: with you, I prefer without, to feel you better. Some can also be high potential for sex, even quite wild for sex like Pia, but they can t compete for charm, elegance and class when you look for GF type. I knew only Sam at GT, but half Turkish, who could, but not Finnja who looks like a little girl compare to a real Romanian woman.
Sirioja: it might have something to do with the lineups falling at LR, sharks and gt. At Oase the lineup is strong in optics, but then also upselling increases. Sure sharks still have some doable girls, but I feel that when I find some new top girls there, most of them don't stick around very long. Unfortunately since one would think they'd make a lot of money at sharks if they tried. Some top sharks girls do make a lot of money. But maybe the girls got to start thinking more as a unity and hope for the club to have 10 top girls and not just 2-3.Sharks casting was really good on mid June and despite Worldcup to watch, not crowded and slow business for girls.
When You drive more than 1000 kms like me, you don't visit, just to eat and drink, or make sauna, but at LR, even GT, and Sharks, more and more local regulars come for restaurant, bar, sauna, tea chat, but don t give business to girls.
I know we don't have same tastes, but Oase casting seen on my last week end visits was nothing impressive for my eyes, and I left with full balls, no woman types for me, only little girls types.
Member #4581
08-10-18, 19:25
I have seen (and sessioned with) girls who gave good service, bad service, bitchy service, bored service, girls who lick assholes and those that dont wont even smooch, girls that give sloppy bjs, toothy bjs, and only covered bjs, girls who fuck you back and others who will be starfish, girls who were blondes, brunettes, red heads and a few who changed all those hair colors in a week, tall girls, short girls, with fantastic figures and so so figures, girls with great teeth and not, girls with pale skin and tanned skin, with friendly smile and crooked smile, obvious scammers and honest brokers, those with great English skills and others whose vocabulary consisted of 2 English words, girls who are starkers and others who wear towels. ...... Basically across the entire spectrum along so many axes.
I am talking about just the Romanian girls I have been with and seen.
Is that sufficient diversity?
Polyamorist
08-12-18, 00:57
Business seem more and more slow, not only at LR, but also at big Sharks, and even at GT out of week ends.[Deleted by Admin] I hear the German guys are showing up at LR but just not fucking anyone. Now why would that be, I wonder. As usual it's got to be the guys' fault and nothing at all to do with the attitude of the girls. Maybe the FKKs should issue a Joint Proclamation via their online astro-trolls, something along the lines of, "Being that the Sex Drive of the Human Male is notoriously low, we hereby deny all Culpability and declare a Strike until such time as traitorous Nature shall have heard our Distress Call and corrected her Deficiency".
At Oase, it's because of many girls fault, trying to fuck clients.I'm sure they would say they are just doing their job.
Anyway today I had a great session with my ro-reg, and it was certainly more Romantic than Robotic, so anybody who calls me the Unromanian is piping it out their ass. BUT I also had a nice convo with a gorgeous honest-to-fuck medical student from Italy, and met a born-and-bred Strasbourg beauty. My point is this could not have happened in a German FKK these days, where diversity is less cherished and remembered than a used gummi.
Ya kebdy 3 aleyk, Sir Ioja! I hear the German guys are showing up at LR but just not fucking anyone. Now why would that be, I wonder. As usual it's got to be the guys' fault and nothing at all to do with the attitude of the girls. Maybe the FKKs should issue a Joint Proclamation via their online astro-trolls, something along the lines of, "Being that the Sex Drive of the Human Male is notoriously low, we hereby deny all Culpability and declare a Strike until such time as traitorous Nature shall have heard our Distress Call and corrected her Deficiency".
*Sigh* I'm sure they would say they are just doing their job.
Anyway today I had a great session with my ro-reg, and it was certainly more RO-mantic than RO-botic, so anybody who calls me the Unromanian is piping it out their ass. BUT I also had a nice convo with a gorgeous honest-to-fuck medical student from Italy, and met a born-and-bred Strasbourg beauty. My point is this could not have happened in a German FKK these days, where diversity is less cherished and remembered than a used gummi.Certain men are too comfortable in some clubs, hanging around with their friends and opening as many beers as possible, drinking them is optional. Entry, food and drinks all for the same cost as a round of golf, a good excuse to give their wives, if the don't session). Many of these men would be bounced for poor behavior from even the most tolerant bars or pubs in the city.
BUT I also had a nice convo with a gorgeous honest-to-fuck medical student from Italy,These are the best! Did she perform any nursing duties on you? Or the full medical checkup? I love it when they come to the clubs in order to get field experience in trying out some Sexy Tentingo Dances (STD's).
The 50 e is thus not just a communistic social pricing scheme for the customers, but it also works like that for the girls as it employs more girls the lower the cost. Until service / looks gets so low on the girls offering it that nobody wants to pay it any longer. Now the question we are discussing in here ad nauseum for the past year or two, could be summed up into being weather or not this current cut of 50 e lowers the line below that threshold or not. And therefore actually shrinking the total pie, instead of increasing it. My personal opinion is that it has in most of the clubs. Only a few clubs are able to still keep the threshold above water, but even there, some / most girls are not happy, and upselling has then increased. Ruining the entire system from within.I totally agree. It used to be 100 German Mark when the FKK scene started, which later was adapted to 50. Due to inflation over time and also the raising cost of living in Romania, it probably needed to be adjusted to 100 by now. I am also actually earning at least 5 times more compared to 1999.
BigBuddy69
08-12-18, 17:29
The inflation has been very low in Europe especially if you don't count the energy and food costs. Maybe you earn 5 times more but that's not the case for everyone. If they raised the 30 minutes costs from 50 to 100, a lot of the clubs would close and more than half of the girls would be back to work in some Bucharest Macdonald. Since one year, there are less and mess men in the clubs, raising the prices wouldn't make them come back.
ExpatLover
08-12-18, 18:59
Certain men are too comfortable in some clubs, hanging around with their friends and opening as many beers as possible, drinking them is optional. Entry, food and drinks all for the same cost as a round of golf, a good excuse to give their wives, if the don't session). Many of these men would be bounced for poor behavior from even the most tolerant bars or pubs in the city.What are you speaking about, for example in World you can spend your full day just drinking free beer and what is the problem, I just session top models if any I don t go to the room.
I totally agree. It used to be 100 German Mark when the FKK scene started, which later was adapted to 50. Due to inflation over time and also the raising cost of living in Romania, it probably needed to be adjusted to 100 by now. I am also actually earning at least 5 times more compared to 1999.Well, taking 2007 as a basis point (the year Romania was let into EU), the CPI in Romania has gone up by nearly 50%. So 70 e would be a sensible new pricing target. Increased competition is the drag though. So I wouldn't push it much above. 80 and they could loose too many local customers. But 75 could be justified due to the CPI increases. Then again, it isn't normal to use CPI's for foreign countries, but given the volume of Romanians, it makes some sense. The Romanian leu has also weakened compared to the euro by a lot compared to the euro.
For Germany the CPI has gone up by just 15%.
So given that, a more correct price would be anywhere between 60 and 70 euro, given 50 euro as a basis in 2007.
Hello fellow mongers,
I just had 2 great days at sharks (Saturday) and Oase (Sunday) reports will follow.
Any idea how the LU is in them on Mondays?
I am planning to either take a break tomorrow from 4 continuous days of sex or revisit Sharks or Oase on Monday.
Any advice will be very useful.
Thanks.
There have been quite a few complaints on ISG about lack of air conditioning. I suspect the prevalence of such complaints is much lower amongst the mostly European clientele, therefore I don't think there will be any change any time soon. Majority of the European guests didn't grow up with AC like the Americans, so they can't miss what they never really had. Also most Europeans go on regular holiday to a seaside location during this time of the year, so fewer men in the club, to endure this suffering and to vocalize it to management.
Those Europeans that are still attending the clubs are probably rooming less. They pay entry to lounge in the outside areas all day and work on their tan. Temperatures are of course bearable outside in the shade if not engaging in physical activity. Their perspective: "I live close enough to come every weekend if I want, but Germany only has so many days each year with this marvelous weather. No need to really be too concerned about fucking WGs today". Unlike the tourist who paid 1000 EUR for his airfare, the local does not feel the urgency to log five sessions per day. One session at night after temperatures cool down is just fine. Zero sessions is also just fine.
World-wide, the use of air conditioning is mostly an American phenomenon. China and Japan apparently has spiked, but their usage is more recent. Europe may start to catch on with the record breaking heat wave this year. Other parts of the world which are actually much hotter and more humid, don't have the wealth yet to develop the appetite for AC.
...World-wide, the use of air conditioning is mostly an American phenomenon. China and Japan apparently has spiked, but their usage is more recent. Europe may start to catch on with the record breaking heat wave this year. Other parts of the world which are actually much hotter and more humid, don't have the wealth yet to develop the appetite for AC.There would be no mongering in Thailand if it were not for AC. Don't know about the Philippines (does AC stand for Angeles City or aircon?).
I think German clubs have been in denial about this. For the price and maintenance of their spurious swimming pools that people want to use on even less days of the year than AC they could have AC in at least some rooms. Note that some clubs keep their sauna pumping heat during hot days when you just can just as well sweat like a pig lying outside.
Girls often say they don't like AC, they say it makes them ill. I suspect they dislike clients who fuck athletically even more. In Sharks I have been led by girls to windowless rooms after requesting a "not too hot" room. They may have done this on purpose so that I would shorten my already short sessions.
Over the last few years Munich public transports have been plagued by delays in summer because of elderly passengers needing medical attention ("Notartzeinsatz"). This is a central Europe, with a continental climate, not Brittany.
TankTank123
08-13-18, 01:42
In Sharks I have been led by girls to windowless rooms after requesting a "not too hot" room. They may have done this on purpose so that I would shorten my already short sessions.I have found this to be actually true! In my last 2 visits to Sharks, both in peak heat, I tested many many rooms. The windowless ones were about 2 degrees less hot than those with windows. The windowless rooms nearest the staircase were the least untolerable.
There would be no mongering in Thailand if it were not for AC. Don't know about the Philippines (does AC stand for Angeles City or aircon?).Mongering is a physical activity and generally reserved for the more affluent, so it makes sense that AC is common in Thai and Filipino brothels. Are these brothels frequented by locals? These locations also have more hot days of the year than say Germany.
My point was that AC is not in every building and residence like it is in USA, so people manage to live without it, and probably less likely to complain when without it. Most regular Thai people apparently are forced to suffer without AC: "In Thailand, home air conditioners are not widely used despite the country's tropical heat and humidity. According to Iwatani, the country's air conditioner penetration rate is still 20% or lower. " https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Thai-air-conditioning-market-hot-for-investment.
FKK operators probably expect the customer traffic to dip in July and August (especially). We sometimes see some pricing promotions introduced during this period to counteract. Entire cities across Europe become ghost towns in August. Married European mongers must pack the kids into station wagons. Installing more AC would not encourage this demographic to attend, because they have social obligations during peak holiday season. I know some unmarried French, Belgian, Dutch, and German mongers who attend every weekend, but are missing in action for periods during the summer. When Europeans return to work from their month-long vacations, I suspect one needs a cover story. Unless said European monger can manage to be completely anti-social.
Perhaps some guy needs to have a heat stroke in Sharks boiler rooms before change occurs.
Kosher Kowboy
08-13-18, 07:34
World-wide, the use of air conditioning is mostly an American phenomenon. And unfortunately $206.91 electric bills seem to be a Texas phenomenon to finance said air conditioning, not sure about in Europe but at least in this neck of the woods the Utility Companies are all thieves, I would rather be upsold and hosed by an upseller over there than write this check.
Still, probably a lot less than Sharks electric bill for July. I can't even imagine how many thousands of Euros they get popped for a month.
Perhaps some guy needs to have a heat stroke in Sharks boiler rooms before change occurs.Speaking of Sharks and AC, don't all those little wood huts in back have those mini split units in them? I remember them being cold but maybe I was somewhere else (physically and / or mentally.) I think the red room has a Daiken mini (Same brand Mainhatten ordered) on the wall, but I am sure that room is always occupied.
Mongering is a physical activity and generally reserved for the more affluent.I think this is where myself as an expat living many years in Europe and Asia see things differently. In Korea, Thailand, The PI, Vietnam, etc prostitution is for most men. The difference is that prices are inflated for sex tourists, and often times the establishment for locals is segregated from that of foreigners.
In England, Ireland, Spain, the NL Germany, Ukraine mongering is again available to most men. Ukraine is possibly the exception because it seems almost every local woman has a price of $100 which is beyond the means of many local men to pay on a frequent basis unless they are involved in some sort of illegal activities.
Germany is a prime example of prostitution being available for almost every man. If you walk through Frankfurt RLD, the Hamburg RLD, etc toward the end of the evening you will see groups of late teens early twenties men, drunk as heck, walking the streets and stairwells looking for the WG of choice. These are not the affluent, they just have an extra €50 at the end of the night and full balls. If you look at the FKK concept, it was started by a man, to serve the needs of his friends in the village. I'm sure he never imagined how the concept would evolve. It is now a multi billion euro business with international sex tourists arriving daily. Yes, the tourists who are traveling internationally via long haul flights from North America or Asia tend to be affluent, but elsewhere the locals are still visiting working girls. If we advocate and support price increases to €140-200 per hour for basic services it will for sure negatively impact the everyday local man's ability to visit WGs, which I believe will have a larger negative impact on the legislation than anything we have seen to date.
The inflation has been very low in Europe especially if you don't count the energy and food costs. Maybe you earn 5 times more but that's not the case for everyone. If they raised the 30 minutes costs from 50 to 100, a lot of the clubs would close and more than half of the girls would be back to work in some Bucharest Macdonald. Since one year, there are less and mess men in the clubs, raising the prices wouldn't make them come back.My theory stands counter to that argument. But I agree on your first part. An increase to 100 e per 30 min would kill the FKK industry. An increase to 60 or 65 (62-63 would be the average) could however increase demand, if but only if the girls would play along and not get carried away by greed. Too rough hikes in price as the same time could be damaging too, so an increase of more than 10 e (20%) would probably not be advisable, which is more than the European CPI increase since 2007, but not by much.
Vacations like the summer holiday is also high season for tourists travelling for afar. It might be low seasons for some locals, but just look at the Villash clubs in Austria: July / August is the busiest time of the year. Because the Italians have time off work.
Yes, the tourists who are traveling internationally via long haul flights from North America or Asia tend to be affluent, but elsewhere the locals are still visiting working girls. If we advocate and support price increases to 140-200 per hour for basic services it will for sure negatively impact the everyday local man's ability to visit WGs, which I believe will have a larger negative impact on the legislation than anything we have seen to date.Well many guys who do long rooms are negatively impacting the local monger as well. They are essentially taking the WG off the market. I am not complaining because I generally like less popular WGs who don't possess the requisite charm to hook the whales.
It does seem to be a badge of honor for some ISGers to say: "I never pay more than 100 EUR per hour". But if you are spending thousands of EUR on a a favorite WG per year, I would hope that you would be able to negotiate a better hourly rate. Bulk discounts, free time, free extras, etc. Make her earn your EUR! Make her be the one to court you!
Well many guys who do long rooms are negatively impacting the local monger as well. They are essentially taking the WG off the market. I am not complaining because I generally like less popular WGs who don't possess the requisite charm to hook the whales.
It does seem to be a badge of honor for some ISGers to say: "I never pay more than 100 EUR per hour". But if you are spending thousands of EUR on a a favorite WG per year, I would hope that you would be able to negotiate a better hourly rate. Bulk discounts, free time, free extras, etc. Make her earn your EUR! Make her be the one to court you!I cannot stay in room for more than 1.5 hour per session, max of max is 2 hours, I find it not comforting to stay with tute in room between the actual sex. When I talk to them I use my nerves to be polite and I get tired so 1.5 hour to maximum 2 hours is the time I can handle, but that with few cum, not just doing once and talking.
Only in GT where long room and reservations are problem as there, some girls comes in and disappear for whole day, usually the best ones.
And unfortunately $206.91 electric bills seem to be a Texas phenomenon to finance said air conditioning, not sure about in Europe but at least in this neck of the woods the Utility Companies are all thieves, I would rather be upsold and hosed by an upseller over there than write this check.Germans pay three times more than Americans for electricity: https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/average-electricity-prices-kwh.html
USA uses more electricity on air conditioning than anybody else in the world. More than four times more than much hotter places like the Middle East: https://qz.com/1285836/the-people-living-in-the-hottest-places-on-the-planet-are-the-least-likely-to-have-air-conditioners/
Think its related to the obesity epidemic in USA? Fat people sweat more? People just got to get into shape!
Member #4581
08-13-18, 23:36
Well many guys who do long rooms are negatively impacting the local monger as well. They are essentially taking the WG off the market. I am not complaining because I generally like less popular WGs who don't possess the requisite charm to hook the whales.
It does seem to be a badge of honor for some ISGers to say: "I never pay more than 100 EUR per hour". But if you are spending thousands of EUR on a a favorite WG per year, I would hope that you would be able to negotiate a better hourly rate. Bulk discounts, free time, free extras, etc. Make her earn your EUR! Make her be the one to court you!Some ISGers or some mongers in general may just be into long rooms because they already know what they want, which girls they like and realized over time that they find half hour sessions not satisfying and that they can't finish in such sessions.
Some others strictly do half HR sessions because they want to sample as many girls as possible, don't need things like kissing, DATY, even BJ and just want to bang the girl, finish, and do the next girl.
I personally don't have a strict formula. I do want to have as many sessions as I can, with as many different pretty girls as I can, and want to fuck every single optiflck I see in the club at least once. However, I have a handful of personal favs; and I tend to do them at least once or even twice a day every time I am in the club and those can be multiple hour sessions each.
I would think no one is intentionally screwing up the market for others. Every man does what is best for himself using the knowledge, skills, and expertise he has. Even the Asian tourists paying 150 to 200 an hour are probably not destroying the market intentionally, but just don't know any better.
If guys of variable means and needs interact with sex suppliers, the ones with higher needs and bigger wallets are likely to overwhelm the ones with lesser needs and smaller wallets. Should the former be blamed?
Some ISGers or some mongers in general may just be into long rooms because they already know what they want, which girls they like and realized over time that they find half hour sessions not satisfying and that they can't finish in such sessions.
Some others strictly do half HR sessions because they want to sample as many girls as possible, don't need things like kissing, DATY, even BJ and just want to bang the girl, finish, and do the next girl.
I personally don't have a strict formula. I do want to have as many sessions as I can, with as many different pretty girls as I can, and want to fuck every single optiflck I see in the club at least once. However, I have a handful of personal favs; and I tend to do them at least once or even twice a day every time I am in the club and those can be multiple hour sessions each.Sounds like you make a hell of a lot of rooms, and add in some long rooms too. By that post you spend nearly 1000 a night at an FKK?
And to your last question: yes of course. There will always be blame to hand around. That is how markets work. Weather or not anyone should of need to care about the comments, is optional. For the girls, they probably just need to understand that not everyone has an equally sized wallet, and micro economics points towards differentiated price tags too. But many girls have the tendency to misjudge the customers. So that is where the blaming probably stems from.
Polyamorist
08-14-18, 01:52
An increase to 100 e per 30 min would kill the FKK industry. An increase to 60 or 65 (62-63 would be the average) could however increase demand, if but only if the girls would play along and not get carried away by greed.Salaam Pistons, the alternative I mentioned was to eliminate entrance fees for girls. In return the clubs could increase entry for mongers by 5 euros until there was increased business.
Member #4581
08-14-18, 02:38
By that post you spend nearly 1000 a night at an FKK?
Weather or not anyone should of need to care about the comments, is optional.
.How much I spend per night is not relevant here Pistons, but you do need to work on your reading comprehension.
I will probably have to engage a translator service to understand that second sentence of yours.
We are lucky to have Romanian beauties for cheap rate, some are lovely and I love them.
Without Romanians, most of few Germans would not accept to work for such cheap rate. Romanians are better GF for me, even some Germans are crazy hot in bed.
With registration, new Germans will become more and more rare. Romanians are FKK land future, and I'm happy about that.
Business seem more and more slow, not only at LR, but also at big Sharks, and even at GT out of week ends. At Oase, it's because of many girls fault, trying to fuck clients.Romanian girls has to register too.
Even the Asian tourists paying 150 to 200 an hour are probably not destroying the market intentionally, but just don't know any better.This segment of the population, as you say, is not well-informed. I suspect that many of these pandas are infrequent, or one-time visitors and thus have no reason to invest the time to "learn" from our discussions here or any other pay sex forums. If a one-time or infrequent visitor, then they are probably not taking Viagra and the adrenaline of being a newbie probably means they pop within a few minutes. The quick pop means that they probably wouldn't extend past the 30 minute mark. If not using Viagra, they may not attempt a second session that day. While 200 for 15 minutes is certainly a financial windfall for a WG, you would need a large number of such ill-informed pandas to distort the market. Some discussion here lately has suggested that the pandas at Sharks are more informed than the ones at say Mainhattan.
If guys of variable means and needs interact with sex suppliers, the ones with higher needs and bigger wallets are likely to overwhelm the ones with lesser needs and smaller wallets. Should the former be blamed?Most of the readers and posters here are addicts. Many are spending 30 plus days in the club per year, 14 hours per visit, sampling 4 WGs per day, therefore we have a relatively greater impact on the market. I have nothing against those guys who do long rooms, overnights, or make themselves exclusive to a single FKK club wife. I am simply advocating for these mongers to negotiate the best possible value. Being a platinum level customer should entitle you receive some customer loyalty rewards.
Some ISGers or some mongers in general may just be into long rooms because they already know what they want, which girls they like and realized over time that they find half hour sessions not satisfying and that they can't finish in such sessions.True. But some mongers who are spending large sums are "blinded by love" or they are believing everything that the WG is telling them. Here are two scenarios:
Posters here have opened up about "falling" for a WG. They threw money and gifts at her, hoping to impress her or win her affection. If she asks for a Western Union transfer on WhatsApp, he may be afraid to say "no" to her, because he fears that he will lose her. It's the sunk cost fallacy. He's invested so much in her up until this point. In his mind, she is starting to fall in love with him, so he doesn't want to lose that momentum. My stance: if a WG starts to exhibit greed or does something to upset him, he should put her on probation. Cut off her payments. If she gives him the silent treatment, he shouldn't apologize right away. He and his whale wallet are the prize. She should be afraid of losing him, and doing everything to impress him. He should even be the one throwing tantrums sometimes!
Posters here have also made statements like "Wow, I am small potatoes compared to how much her rich clients spend on her". I am of the opinion that most WGs will exaggerate how much their whales actually spend on them. They may do this hoping that the customer cares enough for her to get into a bidding war.
Member #4581
08-15-18, 03:19
Most of the readers and posters here are addicts. Many are spending 30 plus days in the club per year, 14 hours per visit, sampling 4 WGs per day, therefore we have a relatively greater impact on the market. I have nothing against those guys who do long rooms, overnights, or make themselves exclusive to a single FKK club wife. I am simply advocating for these mongers to negotiate the best possible value. Being a platinum level customer should entitle you receive some customer loyalty rewards.
True. But some mongers who are spending large sums are "blinded by love" or they are believing everything that the WG is telling them. Here are two scenarios:
Posters here have opened up about "falling" for a WG. They threw money and gifts at her, hoping to impress her or win her affection. If she asks for a Western Union transfer on WhatsApp, he may be afraid to say "no" to her, because he fears that he will lose her. It's the sunk cost fallacy. He's invested so much in her up until this point. In his mind, she is starting to fall in love with him, so he doesn't want to lose that momentum. My stance: if a WG starts to exhibit greed or does something to upset him, he should put her on probation. Cut off her payments. If she gives him the silent treatment, he shouldn't apologize right away. He and his whale wallet are the prize. She should be afraid of losing him, and doing everything to impress him. He should even be the one throwing tantrums sometimes!
Posters here have also made statements like "Wow, I am small potatoes compared to how much her rich clients spend on her". I am of the opinion that most WGs will exaggerate how much their whales actually spend on them. They may do this hoping that the customer cares enough for her to get into a bidding war.I am in complete agreement with your last two paragraphs.
Falling for a WG is a fool's errand. It leads to nothing but a broken heart, emotional bitterness and financial ruin 99% of the time. (I would have said 100% but every once in a while, someone comes up with a random male Cinderella story).
I also agree that it is completely in the girls' interest to lie and exaggerate about her "other her rich clients". Here is a typical scenario.
Once she knows you have a strong interest in her (but not yet head over heels), she will try to create jealousy and competition "this other guy is giving me all these gifts and showering me with thousands of dollars". At the same time, she will also claim she has an immediate monetary need because she is somewhat insolvent despite all her massive earnings streams as she donated the money to a mom / sister yadda yadda. So, on one hand she wants your sympathy and pity and on the other hand jealousy and feeling of inadequacy and need to compete with a superior suitor. That these counter claims on your wallet are somewhat contradictory may not be obvious if you are blinded by love and lust.
Well many guys who do long rooms are negatively impacting the local monger as well. McA,
You know me too well, I am a pancake maker. I do occasionally feel bad for the other guys when I take a girl for a long session, but about five seconds into my BJ and I forget about them and it's all about me.
This segment of the population, as you say, is not well-informed. I suspect that many of these pandas are infrequent, or one-time visitors and thus have no reason to invest the time to "learn" from our discussions here or any other pay sex forums. If a one-time or infrequent visitor, then they are probably not taking Viagra and the adrenaline of being a newbie probably means they pop within a few minutes. The quick pop means that they probably wouldn't extend past the 30 minute mark. If not using Viagra, they may not attempt a second session that day. While 200 for 15 minutes is certainly a financial windfall for a WG, you would need a large number of such ill-informed pandas to distort the market. Some discussion here lately has suggested that the pandas at Sharks are more informed than the ones at say Mainhattan.
Most of the readers and posters here are addicts. Many are spending 30 plus days in the club per year, 14 hours per visit, sampling 4 WGs per day, therefore we have a relatively greater impact on the market. I have nothing against those guys who do long rooms, overnights, or make themselves exclusive to a single FKK club wife. I am simply advocating for these mongers to negotiate the best possible value. Being a platinum level customer should entitle you receive some customer loyalty rewards.
True. But some mongers who are spending large sums are "blinded by love" or they are believing everything that the WG is telling them. Here are two scenarios:.Mac,
Addiction is when what you can't help doing, make you suffer, but when you do it and get pleasure, like free riding is for adrenaline, climbing the most difficult mountains trying to break your time record is a challenge every Summer, trying to make play your game to the prettiest girls is so enjoyable, and the most enjoyable is when they improve for you. No addiction, no frustration, just pleasure in mind and dreams.
Ask doctors about meaning of addiction, meaning suffering.
For sure, for those who look for love with girls who go to be fucked by anybody, but for love only in room, good game to get what we enjoy from girls. I really enjoyed on last night at Marina Slovenia, how Mila. Ro, 23 yo, super sexy, changed of behavior, so far from her usual 10 mn rooms with Italians for 70 € , but 1 h30 taking care of her, I loved how she looked at me when I entered deep inside of her, so enjoyable to see tears in her eyes when I told her at the end of sex: you see, you are able to be a woman for love, a princess, not only a 10 mn girl. Even only 210 for 1 h30 , when she is used to make 70 in 10 mn, and I refused extra she asked only when I paid for kissing, but according to her smiles and kisses after, I think I will be welcome to repeat, to make her feel again woman, with kisses, caresses, DATY to YamaYama, and going deep inside of her, making her face becoming red.
FKK land is a playfield for games, like mountains are playfield for sports. Just have to be able to understand limits of games.
Smoke Light
08-15-18, 14:15
Posters here have opened up about "falling" for a WG. They threw money and gifts at her, hoping to impress her or win her affection. If she asks for a Western Union transfer on WhatsApp, he may be afraid to say "no" to her, because he fears that he will lose her. It's the sunk cost fallacy.I absolutely agree. Falling in love with a prostitute is similar to swimming in water with a shark 10 times larger than you while bleeding. Unless you find a way out of the water, you will be destroyed. She may even feel sorry before eating you up alive.
Practical advice. If she is asking for a money transfer on Western Union, say that you are under personal tax audit and cannot make any transfers at the moment. Say you have enough cash for her when you see her next time at the club. 50% of the time she will stop texting you almost completely, which should tell you how much she really cares. Small gifts and long rooms are OK as long as you get free extras and multiple pops. No need for long rooms if you pop only once. To prevent long stays in the room, tell her you want to watch her pick other clients at the club because it's your sex fantasy.
Hi all,
Coming into Frankfurt & only have 2 days to spend & just curious from the seasoned vets & current attendees if you would recommend Oase on Sat & Sharks on Sun or the other way around? I do want to check out both clubs just not sure which is the better play right now to see their best talent, thanks in advance!
Member #4581
08-15-18, 23:40
Practical advice. If she is asking for a money transfer on Western Union, say that you are under personal tax audit and cannot make any transfers at the moment. Say you have enough cash for her when you see her next time at the club. Why bother telling lies? I personally don't like to lie unless absolutely necessary. We don't owe them *any* explanation. A curt "sorry, no!" will suffice. If she gets upset, so be it. There are many other girls, and even more newer ones always coming in.
Most of the readers and posters here are addicts. Many are spending 30 plus days in the club per yearI would say that is a sweeping ill-informed generalization.
Addict is just another label.
Are the well behaved family-men; not just Eunuchs if they are in a a sex-less marriage.
Are the faithful husbands of fat, wrinkled, 50+ year Women not Masochists?
One man's paradise is another man's prison.
No one is going to give you a medal on your death bed because you stayed home and paid the bills for 75 yrs.
Picasso was dating an 18 yr old when he was 50.
Men are attracted to female youth and fertility, no morality or prudishness is going to change evolution.
Mac,
Addiction is when what you can't help doing, make you suffer, but when you do it and get pleasure, like free riding is for adrenaline, climbing the most difficult mountains trying to break your time record is a challenge every Summer, trying to make play your game to the prettiest girls is so enjoyable, and the most enjoyable is when they improve for you. No addiction, no frustration, just pleasure in mind and dreams.
Ask doctors about meaning of addiction, meaning suffering.
For sure, for those who look for love with girls who go to be fucked by anybody, but for love only in room, good game to get what we enjoy from girls. I really enjoyed on last night at Marina Slovenia, how Mila. Ro, 23 yo, super sexy, changed of behavior, so far from her usual 10 mn rooms with Italians for 70 , but 1 h30 taking care of her, I loved how she looked at me when I entered deep inside of her, so enjoyable to see tears in her eyes when I told her at the end of sex: you see, you are able to be a woman for love, a princess, not only a 10 mn girl. Even only 210 for 1 h30 , when she is used to make 70 in 10 mn, and I refused extra she asked only when I paid for kissing, but according to her smiles and kisses after, I think I will be welcome to repeat, to make her feel again woman, with kisses, caresses, DATY to YamaYama, and going deep inside of her, making her face becoming red.
FKK land is a playfield for games, like mountains are playfield for sports. Just have to be able to understand limits of games.For us mongering is not addiction, it is one stop solution to used to be limited supply.
Once upon a time, not so long ago, men were limited access to having sex with beautiful girls as we want, how we want, when we want and what we want, but FKK and some other platform solved such problem for men for reasonable price.
FKK platform is like uber of prostitution industry.
It is fine to refuse to send money. If the girl knows you are fond of her she will (normally) just wait a while and ask again. And again. And again. They have nothing to lose in asking politely.
If it is only a hundred euros or two and is accompanied by telephone or internet chats and messages then I look upon it as payment for the time and effort they put into telling me they miss me and so on.
When it gets to the thousands then we are talking about serious scamming. It is okay to fall for a shark, but essential to know it is a shark and not a cuddly companion. My current heart capturing girl recently extracted 10,000 euros from a guy who somehow convinced himself the girl was soft on him. I would do anything for this girl except believe her, trust her, and waste my money on her.
Addiction. 30 days a year listening to classical music or going to church, or the gym, would not be seen as addiction.
BigBuddy69
08-17-18, 15:13
Addiction. 30 days a year listening to classical music or going to church, or the gym, would not be seen as addiction.You're right but that's not exactly the same cost.
If it is only a hundred euros or two and is accompanied by telephone or internet chats and messages then I look upon it as payment for the time and effort they put into telling me they miss me and so on.
You are right. Sorry, fellow mongers, this time I am going to defend WGs' behavior of asking the mongers to send money to them. If a monger didn't gain anything by obtaining a WG's contact info and contacting the WG afterwards, why would he ask a WG's contact info in the first place? Even if a monger asks a WG's contact info just for knowing where she works so that he can see her on his next trip, this info gives the monger comfort by knowing he will be able to see her on his upcoming trip. Mongers should realize that various contacts with WGs cost money because mongers gain something mentally through contacts. Whether the amounts WGs ask are fair is debatable, but we can't blame WGs to ask money for keeping contact with mongers.
If a monger doesn't want to be bothered for money by WGs, he shouldn't ask WG's contact info or give his contact info to the WG in the first place.
On a lighter note, Optimist, each time I read your post, I felt that we got the spokesman of Ministry of Foreign Affairs in our community LOL, because you are always very diplomatic. I enjoy your elegant writing.
Member #4581
08-17-18, 22:09
You are right. Sorry, fellow mongers, this time I am going to defend WGs' behavior of asking the mongers to send money to them. If a monger didn't gain anything by obtaining a WG's contact info and contacting the WG afterwards, why would he ask a WG's contact info in the first place? Even if a monger asks a WG's contact info just for knowing where she works so that he can see her on his next trip, this info gives the monger comfort by knowing he will be able to see her on his upcoming trip. Mongers should realize that various contacts with WGs cost money because mongers gain something mentally through contacts. Whether the amounts WGs ask are fair is debatable, but we can't blame WGs to ask money for keeping contact with mongers.
If a monger doesn't want to be bothered for money by WGs, he shouldn't ask WG's contact info or give his contact info to the WG in the first place.
On a lighter note, Optimist, each time I read your post, I felt that we got the spokesman of Ministry of Foreign Affairs in our community LOL, because you are always very diplomatic. I enjoy your elegant writing.If a monger keeps the contact of a WG and coordinates with her so that she is there when he visits, both he and she benefit. He repeats with a reliable provider and she obtains guaranteed sessions, perhaps multiple long sessions. There is no reason a monger has to pay for this.
If a monger is looking for something more than answer to a simple "are you working on xyz date during my upcoming visit", then it is a different matter. If a monger sends dozens of texts a day and expects speedy replies, wants and needs facetimes and skypes and phone calls and other comforting goodies, yeah that is time spent by the girl -- and to WGs, time = money, hence she is justified in demanding some dough in return.
It is a bit like time in the club: if you smile at the girl and say Hello and she reciprocates, she is not entitled to any money. If the monger spends hours of couch time, she is justified in demanding some moolah (unless she was Janine).
There are many girls who derive the majority of their business through repeat contacts. They are totally prebooked before they step into the club. Clearly, they could not have done this in pre-smartphone days.
Kosher Kowboy
08-17-18, 23:00
Sorry, fellow mongers, this time I am going to defend WGs' behavior of asking the mongers to send money to them.
On a lighter note, Optimist, each time I read your post, I felt that we got the spokesman of Ministry of Foreign Affairs in our community LOL, because you are always very diplomatic. I enjoy your elegant writing.I also think if you have your number entered in to a WG's phone one can not complain if they ask for money or use the number to their advantage. IMHO phone numbers, social media etc are a form of an extension of ' couch time' which is all part of our Pussy Bill. Way too many guys out there confuse ' out of club contact' to be more than business with their emotions and 99 percent of the time will get burned financially or emotionally or both. Different place but my last two trips to PTY resulted in several phone numbers but in that particular locale day options are far and few and the girls want (and visa versa) to be able to set up daytime appointments so the phone serves as a ' hook up spot' like a club since they don't get rocking until sunset, to bring john and WG together. Anyway, within 2-3 months I noticed I was deleted from all their WhapsApp's, all of them asked for money, all got a ' no' or no reply at all; all deleted me. I do not blame them, nature of the beast. Their job and ultimate objectives with us are financial.
I had a girl the other day use my phone number to try to jockey for position to claim Euros. A WG contacted me and was yapping with her friend same time but some other girl must have have overhead something because while I was still on WhatsApp this shrewd and highly observant WG sent me a very nice picture out of nowhere with emojis ' Can't wait to see you. ' I know she's trying to cut the line for Euros. Our numbers can be used for many reasons, usually all comes back to money however even if not hard paper currency on the spot sent Western Union.
I second your opinion on Optimist, perhaps one of the best writers on here and diplomatic is a great word to describe him. I have to say he is also one of the most trustworthy characters I have met in and out of the P4 P scene.
I hope you enjoyed the picture swap Optimist :D ( takes one to get one) , you too will be poorer as a result. As you say, all fun and games, what's a few bucks, euros, pounds, yens etc.
Addiction. 30 days a year listening to classical music or going to church, or the gym, would not be seen as addiction.BB69 understood what I was getting at, which is to say 30 days of mongering can get quite expensive. Generally, when one is addicted to something, you have no choice but to pay whatever price is necessary to get your "fix", even if it is say a large percentage of one's annual after-taxes income. Also when one is addicted, they have no self-control to stop. They couldn't quit even if they wanted to. When one is addicted, that addiction becomes the focal point of their life, to the point that they might neglect their family, friends, career, and mental / physical health. The figure 30 days is not a hard and fast number. It really depends:
Scenario 1: If some pensioner who lives in Darmstadt attends Sharks 2-3 times a month and spends 150 EUR each time (one 60 minute session + one stamp on his 20 entry card), his 30 day mongering habit is not a huge financial or time-consuming endeavor. It takes him 10 minutes to drive and minimum fuel. He's retired so he has all the free time in the world. Let's assume his retirement income from all sources is 5000 EUR per month after taxes, so 300-450 per month on the hobby is well within his means. Such a monger might not be an addict.
Scenario 2: Guys from continental Europe or UK can also easily hit the 30 day mark and not make too many sacrifices. A French monger can attend 15 weekends per year. That alone puts him at 30 FKK days. It costs him fuel, toll, 15 nights hotel, and 10-12 hours travel time per trip. He can easily hit the 30 day mark without ever tapping into his 30 days paid vacation and 11 public holidays. Such a monger might not be an addict.
Scenario 3: If a fly-in tourist from America or East Asia wanted to spend 30 days in Europe, they would probably use up most if not all of their annual paid holidays and public holidays. If their 30 FKK days were broken up into four separate trips, that is about 4-8 travel days burned. In other words 34-38 days would be needed to achieve the 30 FKK days mark. The intercontinental airfare, rental cars, and hotels also add up. Not to mention these mongers are also known for their higher average daily spending on sessions. Such a monger might be an addict. Again it depends. If he is some Silicon Valley hotshot who retired early with a net worth of $10 M, then he could spend comfortably $50 K per year on the hobby over his 30 FKK days and still have ample time and money to pursue non-hobby endeavors. But an American monger who makes $100 K per year (net income $70 K) and spends $40-50 K on the hobby would probably be considered an addict.
For the record, I would consider myself an addict. I spend significantly more than 30 days in the FKK.
Member #4581
08-18-18, 01:16
McA — a while ago, you gave some good suggestions to break one's porn addiction. Curious if you tried any remedies to break your self admitted club addiction. Or do you consider FKK addiction relatively harmless as compared to porn addiction?
You are right. Sorry, fellow mongers, this time I am going to defend WGs' behavior of asking the mongers to send money to them. If a monger didn't gain anything by obtaining a WG's contact info and contacting the WG afterwards, why would he ask a WG's contact info in the first place? Even if a monger asks a WG's contact info just for knowing where she works so that he can see her on his next trip, this info gives the monger comfort by knowing he will be able to see her on his upcoming trip. Mongers should realize that various contacts with WGs cost money because mongers gain something mentally through contacts. Whether the amounts WGs ask are fair is debatable, but we can't blame WGs to ask money for keeping contact with mongers.
If a monger doesn't want to be bothered for money by WGs, he shouldn't ask WG's contact info or give his contact info to the WG in the first place.
On a lighter note, Optimist, each time I read your post, I felt that we got the spokesman of Ministry of Foreign Affairs in our community LOL, because you are always very diplomatic. I enjoy your elegant writing.Some guys just want contact info so they can find the girl to session with the next time. It is for the girl's benefit since they get more business. That is different than seeing a girl outside the club or developing a relationship.
Rogue Nation
08-18-18, 06:53
Scenario 1: If some pensioner who lives in Darmstadt attends Sharks 2-3 times a month and spends 150 EUR each time (one 60 minute session + one stamp on his 20 entry card), his 30 day mongering habit is not a huge financial or time-consuming endeavor. It takes him 10 minutes to drive and minimum fuel. He's retired so he has all the free time in the world. Let's assume his retirement income from all sources is 5000 EUR per month after taxes, so 300-450 per month on the hobby is well within his means. Such a monger might not be an addict.The average German pensioner attending FKK clubs will have significantly less than 5000€ income after taxes. 450€ will probably be 20-25% of his income. Many pensioners are going for the cheap entry options (ROM, Atlanta, World on Wednesday) and will have sex on every 5th or 6th visit.
Kosher Kowboy,
I agree with you. By the way, I also enjoy your witty and entertaining writings.
If a monger keeps the contact of a WG and coordinates with her so that she is there when he visits, both he and she benefit. He repeats with a reliable provider and she obtains guaranteed sessions, perhaps multiple long sessions. There is no reason a monger has to pay for this.
...
I am in agreement with your post except above part. In my opinion, I would change the last sentence of above part of your post to "The cost of such contact from a monger will be included in the cost of guaranteed sessions, perhaps multiple long sessions, in his upcoming trip, just like the coach time before those upcoming sessions.".
BB69 understood what I was getting at, which is to say 30 days of mongering can get quite expensive. Generally, when one is addicted to something, you have no choice but to pay whatever price is necessary to get your "fix", even if it is say a large percentage of one's annual after-taxes income. Also when one is addicted, they have no self-control to stop. They couldn't quit even if they wanted to. When one is addicted, that addiction becomes the focal point of their life, to the point that they might neglect their family, friends, career, and mental / physical health. The figure 30 days is not a hard and fast number. It really depends:
Scenario 1: If some pensioner who lives in Darmstadt attends Sharks 2-3 times a month and spends 150 EUR each time (one 60 minute session + one stamp on his 20 entry card), his 30 day mongering habit is not a huge financial or time-consuming endeavor. It takes him 10 minutes to drive and minimum fuel. He's retired so he has all the free time in the world. Let's assume his retirement income from all sources is 5000 EUR per month after taxes, so 300-450 per month on the hobby is well within his means. Such a monger might not be an addict..Yes, addiction is when you are not able to control, and suffer financially or being frustrated from this.
I spend more than 100 days for my week ends, in whole FKK land, from Hamburg, now to Nova Gorica + escorts in Paris, but I don't suffer from this, so it's not a addiction, but just for pleasure and game. But all my girls know they can't compete versus ski or climbing mountains. I remember exceptional Lena. Ro on last August at Wellcum. I arrived driving through Dolomiti from Stelvio on a Thursday afternoon. First room was average with a pretty girl, second room was with a friendly girl but not pretty enough when full naked on the bed, so I was thinking to leave to move to Andiamo, when I discovered Lena and her smile in the evening. Wow room with her on this Thursday evening. On Friday, I returned to take a big breakfast to prepare Zoncolan. I saw Lena who was speaking with a guy, when she saw me she smiled, finished with the guy and came to me smiling. I told her I couldn't go with her, if you saw her face. Then I drove 1 h to Zoncolan and returned to Wellcum on the evening, then when she saw me, no smile on her face, so I went to her telling her: now I'm ready for you, she answered: but at 1 am, you already had a room? I answered: of course not, but I had to prepare for my climbing, I explained her, she looked at me as a alien, of course she became my only girl on this Friday with 2 wow rooms, on Saturday for party but I arrived only on evening, but she was really exceptional, waiting for a good room, other girls were telling her: it's your turn for the key, and she answered: you can go, I'm waiting for a better room, on Ferragosto party. For our second room, we finished at 3. 15 am, lights were on in the club, only us when going downstairs. So I returned on Sunday to take big breakfast before driving to Zoncolan for my third try, I had to stop on 2 first tries because of rain, then no grip for rear wheel when 25% climbing. After breakfast, smiles and caresses with her at the bar, others girls and guys were looking at us, even I knew I should not, but I couldn't resist when she laid on her back, opening her legs, giving me pillow to put under her ass, smiling meaning: please work for me. Then great time again for our sixth room, but I controlled not to finish. When she saw I didn't finish, she asked: I finished, why you don't? Little doll princess on this year, would have said: what the fuck you don't finish with me. So, I had to explain to Lena, I needed to keep all my power for Zoncolan. I don't think she understood, she said: you are crazy. I missed her on this year, she was my power for my performance on last year, when only killing body and mind on this year, so I will have to return, but I will prepare at Globe, like for ski.
Even with top girls like Lena, FKK games are only second choice versus real sports.
I catch throatache in FKK, but if I ever catch STD, then no more FKK games. I don't lie this kind of risks, I prefer free ride or speed.
McA a while ago, you gave some good suggestions to break one's porn addiction. Curious if you tried any remedies to break your self admitted club addiction. Or do you consider FKK addiction relatively harmless as compared to porn addiction?Porn addiction affected my erection quality. It also made it difficult for me to orgasm with real vaginas and mouths, and as such I could not enjoy paid sex activity or civilian sex activity as much. In other words, I felt it was a matter of sexual health.
FKK clubs, one could argue, could also have some long-term effects on ability to perform sexually with normal civilian women. It spoils us. It allows us to fuck prettier girls than we could usually get in real life. Also more variety than we could get in real life. Perhaps more deviant sexual acts than we would feel comfortable asking for with normal women. Too much FKK might make it difficult to get "excited" if we ever had to revert to a non-mongering sex life. Admittedly, this issue would not be relevant for mongers that have given up hope on civilian women.
I would like to cut back on my paid sex activity, but in all honesty, it is what helps curb my porn addiction. So I guess paid sex would be the lesser of two evils. Everything in moderation.
It is fine to refuse to send money. If the girl knows you are fond of her she will (normally) just wait a while and ask again. And again. And again. They have nothing to lose in asking politely.Nothing to lose? To me, it seems like there would be some level of risk for the WG. She needs to be able to judge how different mongers might respond to such a request. A monger might consider a request for money a huge turn-off. If he is turned off, he might cut back on his sessions or stop seeing her altogether. If up to that point, he has convinced himself that the WG is into him beyond purely the financials, then a request to send money would be "sobering", would it not?
If a customer has dropped thousands of EUR on her, then some text-messaging, face timing, and skipping should be included at no additional cost. The amount of such "free" social interaction should however be commensurate with how much he has spent on her. A shrewd WG may see all this social interaction as a way to lock-in her big whales, or keep them interested (customer retention). Consider this: if you were a small business owner and were friends with all your employees, it would be hard to fire them, no? I think a similar thing happens with mongers that become friends with their WGs. Even if she gets too fat or too old for him, he'd still pay for a few pity fucks before he starts avoiding her.
Too much FKK might make it difficult to get "excited" if we ever had to revert to a non-mongering sex life. Admittedly, this issue would not be relevant for mongers that have given up hope on civilian women.I for one won't be "reverting". Real, confirmed mongers stand up!
BigBuddy69
08-18-18, 14:45
Porn addiction affected my erection quality. It also made it difficult for me to orgasm with real vaginas and mouths, and as such I could not enjoy paid sex activity or civilian sex activity as much. In other words, I felt it was a matter of sexual health.
FKK clubs, one could argue, could also have some long-term effects on ability to perform sexually with normal civilian women. It spoils us. It allows us to fuck prettier girls than we could usually get in real life. Also more variety than we could get in real life. Perhaps more deviant sexual acts than we would feel comfortable asking for with normal women. Too much FKK might make it difficult to get "excited" if we ever had to revert to a non-mongering sex life. Admittedly, this issue would not be relevant for mongers that have given up hope on civilian women.
I would like to cut back on my paid sex activity, but in all honesty, it is what helps curb my porn addiction. So I guess paid sex would be the lesser of two evils. Everything in moderation.Actually my porn addiction costs me a lot less than my club addiction but it's also really less satisfying. Nothing compares to having a woman in your arms even if it's easier to reach an orgasm while masturbating to porn. When I'm planning a club tour I try to cut porn and masturbation for at least one week.
As for addiction, I agree with McA, most of us (including me) are totally addicted, and the most addicted guy here is obviously the guy who is in total denial. I'm not into paying a girl for texting me "oh I miss you blablabla", I asked the girl's number only if I want to know her working days when I come. And actually, I realized that every time I got a girl's number, it ended bad.
I prefer to bring the girls some lingerie from time to time and the present is also for me: I like to see them wearing this when we go into some physical intimacy.
Member #4581
08-18-18, 15:29
A butthead might say that porn addiction is less harmful as it is medically most safe and obviously the least expensive.
However, even the butthead would probably agree that sex with a young pretty girl beats sex with one's own hands -- hands down, no pun.
Of course addiction of any kind is an unfortunate thing.
I don't know if I would classify attendance of a certain number (30 or whatever) as addiction. Addiction Board in the US calls addiction a primary chronic disease of the brain. Websters defines addiction as a persistent, compulsive need of something known by the user to be harmful *AND* well defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawl.
I don't think most mongers think FKKing is harmful (other than depletion of financial resources), and I think many of us stay away from clubs for long stretches due to a variety of reasons.
McAdonis. Agreed. My scenario was just a rule of thumb for when a girl knows a customer is fond of her, and assumed a certain politeness and diplomacy on the part of the girl, exactly as you suggest. A girl asking rudely or unwisely of course can lose out as you say.
As for terminating a "friendship" with a working girl, all I can say is that for me it is extremely simple. I can fire her as you put it just as she can "fire" me. All it takes is one word "no"
You're right but that's not exactly the same cost.LOL. Yes FKK is more expensive, but as long as one spends within one's means then there is no problem.
KK and Bfsie. Thanks for the kind words: it is nice to know that I don't write complete rubbish.
KK. WhatsApp couch time is essential to keep me on the hook, as you well know. The photos, videos and " mi e dor de tine iubitul meu" are an offer made by the girls to secure continued control of my wallet.
As McA. says, such time is "free". I will however give"gifts" once it becomes a very substantial commitment by the girl. Like in a club: half hour couch time is ok, but once it gets to an hour I feel I owe the girl something.
I for one won't be "reverting". Real, confirmed mongers stand up!Standing up and fully erect, The Cane.
Porn addiction affected my erection quality. It also made it difficult for me to orgasm with real vaginas and mouths, and as such I could not enjoy paid sex activity or civilian sex activity as much. In other words, I felt it was a matter of sexual health.
FKK clubs, one could argue, could also have some long-term effects on ability to perform sexually with normal civilian women. It spoils us. It allows us to fuck prettier girls than we could usually get in real life. Also more variety than we could get in real life. Perhaps more deviant sexual acts than we would feel comfortable asking for with normal women. Too much FKK might make it difficult to get "excited" if we ever had to revert to a non-mongering sex life. Admittedly, this issue would not be relevant for mongers that have given up hope on civilian women.
I would like to cut back on my paid sex activity, but in all honesty, it is what helps curb my porn addiction. So I guess paid sex would be the lesser of two evils. Everything in moderation.FKK lovely Romanians are so much more interesting and enjoyable than fake porn. I read the name Elena Koshka who is a porn star, I thought she is Russian, and as I love Russian girls, I looked who she is, she has Russian origins, but American. I watched a bit about her, in FKK I would go with her for her look, but even impressive squirting, she is just ridiculous when she is fucked on porn. I really would like to fuck her to know where is the truth, about her I m cumming, I m cumming. I met few pornstars doing escorting, 1 was a really shy woman in bed, I know better Romanians in FKK.
About contacts with girls, Kate never asked me money, my LR ex never asked me money, Megan never asked me money, Madi World never asked me money, Isabella never asked me money, others never asked me money, except one on end of 2014 who had a BF, maybe he sent messages asking money? Usually they sent: how are you? When do you come? Maybe they prefer my often business rather than losing it when asking money? When girls respect you and like you, they won't ask you money, same than in real life, women in my life who made less money than me, but they never asked me money and they were so proud to make me a present.
A girl asking rudely or unwisely of course can lose out as you say.Siri once shared that a WG from World asked for 30 K for an apartment. I think that ruined the mood, illusion, fantasy. I don't believe he ever saw her again.
As for terminating a "friendship" with a working girl, all I can say is that for me it is extremely simple. I can fire her as you put it just as she can "fire" me. All it takes is one word "no"Well was it because they got fat or old? Or because they did something to upset you? If they upset you, then that is a very convenient excuse to have a falling out and terminate the relationship. The reason I ask you is because you characterize yourself as someone that can be somewhat flexible on looks. I imagine you as someone who would overlook minor optical flaws during the first fuck and early courtship phase. And once two years pass from that stage, you would not drop her as soon as she exhibited major optic flaws (10 extra kg and wrinkles). That assumes, of course, that the genuine connection remained strong for that entire two year period, and she didn't get greedy (I. E. Betty Sharks).
I don't know if I would classify attendance of a certain number (30 or whatever) as addiction. Addiction Board in the US calls addiction a primary chronic disease of the brain. Websters defines addiction as a persistent, compulsive need of something known by the user to be harmful *AND* well defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawl.
I don't think most mongers think FKKing is harmful (other than depletion of financial resources)To be perfectly clear, I believe paid sex is a wonderful thing. Even recreational drug use is a wonderful thing. They both relieve stress. They both allow for a temporary escape from the real world. They both might even help one function better and lead a more productive life. The problem is when they can't control it, and it consumes them.
To your point about "depletion of financial resources", I characterize FKK activities as leisure or therapeutic. FKK is like our version of a relaxing beach holiday. Most people don't consider a beach holiday a waste of their financial resources. It allows them to return to their normal life feeling recharged. So beach holidays aren't a bad thing, provided people aren't spending disproportionate amounts of their disposable income on them. Financial planners advise you spend 10 percent of your after tax income on leisure (restaurants, pubs, normal holiday, FKKing): https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/27/how-much-to-spend-on-fun-each-month-according-to-a-financial-planner.html.
She was Oana at World, but she didn't send me message, she didn't have my number, she asked me in room. I wanted to leave the room, so she said: If You don t want, no problem. The reason was not for a apartment but about family. Of course, it was our last room. Even after all World girls knew I went to World for only 1 girl, when she saw me, she said "Mon. Chéri" for months. The funniest is one member who liked to write about me and my girls, wrote she asked me 30 000 € because I asked her for AO sex. Had anybody paid 30.000 to have AO sex? For 30 000, I would have a real top model look, Oana was not but only cute, for at least 1 month and no problem for AO sex if I wanted. I never paid and was never asked any extra for this.
She was Oana at World, but she didn't send me message, she didn't have my number, she asked me in room. I wanted to leave the room, so she said: If You don t want, no problem. The reason was not for a apartment but about family. Of course, it was our last room. Even after all World girls knew I went to World for only 1 girl, when she saw me, she said "Mon. Chri" for months. The funniest is one member who liked to write about me and my girls, wrote she asked me 30 000 because I asked her for AO sex. Had anybody paid 30.000 to have AO sex? For 30 000, I would have a real top model look, Oana was not but only cute, for at least 1 month and no problem for AO sex if I wanted. I never paid and was never asked any extra for this.A girl asked for 30000 euro in FKK? Even for AO sex, that is absurd figure LOL.
AO BJ AKA BBBJ is even 50 euro extra nowadays in some clubs, but wow 30.000 Euro, it would be better off for you to get wrx sti or lancer evolution for your weekend 1000 km drive to German FKK and mountain Siri.
I for one won't be "reverting". Real, confirmed mongers stand up!I for two won't be reverting, I do not see any rationality doing so.
I understand emotional reasoning, but my rationality will bring me back to monger world where sexual encounters are endless.
FKK is like walking into any bar, but difference is that at FKK, it is secure thing with more varieties on display for you to taste and change as we monger want it. And during lucky summer months, we monger even get to taste walk in girls who are in FKK game sometimes, which most of them end up doing it for permanently after tasting fast cash.
For mongers, fate, destiny and karama are the young beauties we bump in to at main bar, but main bar of FKK LOL. It is quite romantic setting that you do most dirty thing with her for few hours and never see each other again, it is melancholic side of FKK life as many mongers do remember some beautiful dirty moments with some beautiful young girls we nailed that we never see again as girls tend to leave for life at one point.
I see news on TV of some country like Prague, Bucharest etc and I do think about these beautiful dirty moments I had with those young beautiful girls who were once at German FKK. I hope they are happy in their own way in their home town.
There is no reverting at least fully, I had too much of beautiful moments in monger world.
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