German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Incognito Int]

Greetings!

I'm a monger from way back, but haven't been active in over ten years so started a new profile for my upcoming travels to Germany. Hoping you guys can help me out. My plan is to visit an FKK, as well as use an escort to my hotel. Not really interested in RLD action.

Questions:

1. If I could only visit one FKK and my preference is for thin and young, what's my best bet on a Monday / Tuesday evening in the Frankfurt area?

2. I know escorts can be hit or miss, but are there any recommendations for independent ladies or reputable agencies?

3. I'll post in the travel section, but I'd prefer to visit the FKK with another monger for safety reasons, as well as to swap stories and party. I'm new to the region.

Thanks in advance. If you prefer PM, let me know and I'll spring for the membership. I've read through the forums but as my trip draws near I wanted to get as much updated info and advice as possible.

Thanks in advance!

[Optimist]

McA. You are right. I have occasionally dropped regular girls after a couple of years, not because of the (inevitable) weight increase or other physical change but because of change in their behaviour (or maybe my changing views). Once I find a girl I will stick with her regardless of physical change (within reason). BTW I see you remember my Betty posts better than I do LOL.

As for the 30,000 story. The girl has a different version, but I will not share it as it is only her version and I feel, as Sirioja suggests, it is not appropriate to gossip about another ISG member. The key point is, yes, Sirioja says he was asked for 30,000 and unsurprisingly it changed his mood. The same girl asked me for over a year for money, and finally for 5000, as a gift. However, I still continued to go to a room with her occasionally for an half hour, and she used regularly to invite me to sit and chat (couch time) with her for maybe half hour or an hour (always it was me who cut it short so she could earn money from customers). Her money request did not change the mood as we were not playing the "illusion" game, and my refusal seemed to lead to respect from her.

With at least four girls (over a 16 year period) I was playing the "illusion" game and unskillfull requests for money led to me terminating the business relationships. With another two girls I offered money without being asked, and they subsequently asked for further money. With a couple of other girls they refunded me significant parts of my room expenditure. So, even with one charmless ageing monger, there is no set pattern.

When I talk about money I am not referring to marginal tips or very cheap gifts. I am uncomfortable writing about myself but thought it might give a hint of the rich variety of things which happen. I know some members have much more amazing stories than I.

[Sirioja]

McA. You are right. I have occasionally dropped regular girls after a couple of years, not because of the (inevitable) weight increase or other physical change but because of change in their behaviour (or maybe my changing views). Once I find a girl I will stick with her regardless of physical change (within reason). BTW I see you remember my Betty posts better than I do LOL.

As for the 30,000 story. The girl has a different version, but I will not share it as it is only her version and I feel, as Sirioja suggests, it is not appropriate to gossip about another ISG member. The key point is, yes, Sirioja says he was asked for 30,000 and unsurprisingly it changed his mood. The same girl asked me for over a year for money, and finally for 5000, as a gift. However, I still continued to go to a room with her occasionally for an half hour, and she used regularly to invite me to sit and chat (couch time) with her for maybe half hour or an hour (always it was me who cut it short so she could earn money from customers). Her money request did not change the mood as we were not playing the "illusion" game, and my refusal seemed to lead to respect from her.

With at least four girls (over a 16 year period) I was playing the "illusion" game and unskillfull requests for money led to me terminating the business relationships. With another two girls I offered money without being asked, and they subsequently asked for further money. With a couple of other girls they refunded me significant parts of my room expenditure. So, even with one charmless ageing monger, there is no set pattern.

When I talk about money I am not referring to marginal tips or very cheap gifts. I am uncomfortable writing about myself but thought it might give a hint of the rich variety of things which happen. I know some members have much more amazing stories than I.So, I'm not the only one Oana asked money, not by whatsapp for me, eyes in eyes in the room. I think I had about 5/6 rooms with her on March and April 2014, so she knew my behavior with her, not a girl for illusion, but she was playful and funny, but she really didn't deserve 30.000 or even 5000 if I wanted AO sex, same like for kissing I will never pay extra for AO, it can happen during fluent sex, or not. For sure I stopped after this room with her, I can't go with girls I don't trust, even she tried to attract me for months, but when Isabella arrived at World and Madi I discovered on May, Oana was not on same level for me.

I never need to gossip about other guys when I'm with a girl, I have better to enjoy with her, but a guy with my behavior with girls has all the prettiest for regulars, at Globe where I m nothing for money, girls who know me come to me, even the Globe full busy superstar who is much more top class than was Oana.

[Java Man]

Greetings! 3. I'll post in the travel section, but I'd prefer to visit the FKK with another monger for safety reasons, as well as to swap stories and party. I'm new to the region.My first trip to Germany also. I'll be in Frankfurt during your stay. I also have a friend who lives near Frankfurt. (We're from Amerika, hope you won't hold that against us. LOL) You'll have to subscribe in order to PM, so we can coordinate.

[Ortos]

. I also have a friend who lives near Frankfurt. (We're from Amerika, hope you won't hold that against us. LOL) You do realise that there is a risk your family will be separated at the border, don't you?

[Polyamorist]

The funniest is one member who liked to write about me and my girls, wrote she asked me 30 000 because I asked her for AO sex. Had anybody paid 30.000 to have AO sex? Salaam Monsieur-ioja. I think she meant that you had AO sex with her 20 years ago and she is now faced with college fees. A perfectly reasonable request under the circumstances.

Another possibility is that this was Demi Moore slumming it.

Another possibility is that she is Turkish. You thought she was asking for 30,000 euros, but she was actually asking for 30,000 Turkish lira, or about five bucks. Only a cheap charlie would refuse to give a girl five bucks.

[McAdonis]

I have occasionally dropped regular girls after a couple of years, not because of the (inevitable) weight increase or other physical change but because of change in their behaviour (or maybe my changing views). Once I find a girl I will stick with her regardless of physical change (within reason). BTW I see you remember my Betty posts better than I do LOL.Optimist, I will amend my original statement: It is hard to "fire" your friends if they have never wronged you. If they betray you, steal from you, or take you for granted, then firing your friends becomes quite easy. So yes, it was easy for you to fire Betty, but at that point at which you gave Betty her walking papers, did you still truly consider her a friend?

Evita from Sharks might be an apt case study. She was known to go above and beyond and befriend many of her regulars. At one point, she gained a considerable amount of kilos. I suspect a small percentage of her regulars did abandon her immediately. And I suspect a few also accepted her new body. But I suspect a vast majority of her regulars were trying to devise a way to break things off with her, but didn't quite have the heart to do it. Fortunately for her, she was able to lose most if not all of the weight, so it became a moot point. Had Evita been less friendly, I am sure there would have been a bigger fall out her business.

[Member #4581]

I was in the club a couple of times during the period when Evita had put on a little weight and I think I even mentioned her weight issue in a report I wrote here — however, I don't think I would have characterized it "considerable amount of kilos". Also, when I mentioned her weight in my report, I got a lot of pushback from her fans here. Not to mention, I did not see any drop off in the demand for her services from my anecdotal observation and she seemed to be rejecting just as manny people back then as she did when she had not put on the considerable amount of kilos. Her hold on her Asian base never seemed to waver, weight or no weight.

[Mr Ho]

I was in the club a couple of times during the period when Evita had put on a little weight and I think I even mentioned her weight issue in a report I wrote here however, I don't think I would have characterized it "considerable amount of kilos". Also, when I mentioned her weight in my report, I got a lot of pushback from her fans here. Not to mention, I did not see any drop off in the demand for her services from my anecdotal observation and she seemed to be rejecting just as manny people back then as she did when she had not put on the considerable amount of kilos. Her hold on her Asian base never seemed to waver, weight or no weight.Most FKK girls gain weight throughout just few years of working at FKK, is that because of tough working schedule, not exactly healthy food at FKK and also due to stress working at FKK leading them to eat a lot?

I mean sex all day part is quite a exercise for them, but they tend to gain weight working in FKK.

[Incognito Int]

My first trip to Germany also. I'll be in Frankfurt during your stay. I also have a friend who lives near Frankfurt. (We're from Amerika, hope you won't hold that against us. LOL) You'll have to subscribe in order to PM, so we can coordinate.I'll subscribe and we can coordinate. Thanks!

[Sirioja]

Salaam Monsieur-ioja. I think she meant that you had AO sex with her 20 years ago and she is now faced with college fees. A perfectly reasonable request under the circumstances.

Another possibility is that this was Demi Moore slumming it.

Another possibility is that she is Turkish. You thought she was asking for 30,000 euros, but she was actually asking for 30,000 Turkish lira, or about five bucks. Only a cheap charlie would refuse to give a girl five bucks.All my girls, who are most often the prettiest and busiest in clubs, know I'm poor, I never tip, my only tip is to repeat, but they come to me, many want to start their day with me, because of how I treat them. Usually, when I stop with them, or when they see me going with another girl, when most ask me not to go with other girls, then they become angry and I become a bad guy, when they came to me weekly for months. Funny business which can be win-win or lose-lose.

When I gave this example of a girl who could ask big money, I didn't name her, but some guys needed to find who she was among my girls, like they needed to write I exhausted a girl on March 2015, so when she came straight to me on next Saturday when she started earlier than usual, at 5 pm, I asked her: Are you sure, you want to go with me? She looked at me with her black eyes who did afraid some guys thinking she was arrogant, answering: why you say this, so I told her what was written. She had 4 rooms on this Saturday: 3 1 hours with me and another short one, I didn't need to force her, nor to run after her all over the club, and we repeated on next Saturday. I remember on end of January 2015, when I couldn't come on Saturday because of Wengen and Kitzbühel Worldcup, I asked her if we could meet on Wednesday, waking up at 6 am, working until nearly 5 pm to leave before big traffic, then pushing as fast as possible when Germans drive like snails when it s raining, I remember being on grip limit on my little Nurburg between Limburg and Giessen, arriving around 10.30 pm for fast diner, first meal of the day, to go to room around 11 pm, and second room at 3 am until closed. On second room, when she sucked me softly, I felt asleep, so she asked: You don't like? Of course I enjoyed but I just needed to sleep just 2 seconds. On second Wednesday when I arrived, she was talking with a guy but she came to me, on these 2 Wednesdays she made only my 2 hours business= 200 minus entry to pay, I think it was 75 for girls on Wednesday, so I apologized to make her come for such low business from working from 7 pm to 4 am in a so empty World, she answered: No problem, I m here for You. On some Saturdays, she also had only my business, she was too classy for World clients. Then I slept until 5 am, and push as fast as possible back to go to work in Paris. 1300 kms in less than 18 hours, to dream twice with a classy Romanian girl at this time. I did nearly the same at LR, I discovered a elegant Romanian girl on end of 2016, 2 rooms on first evening, then I returned on next Friday but she didn't work, but her friend Ariana at this time told me she would work on Saturday, but I had to be in Paris on Saturday, so I asked Ariana: please tell her I will come back on Sunday, when she flied home on Monday. She came on Sunday, when we met only once before. Again 2 rooms, more than 2000 kms for her in week end, I knew I would have to work on her, but I knew I found my new Eve. When she saw me, she went straight to me, to ask me 30000 to fuck her AO.

Some guys took bank credit to send very big money to girls, then girls disappeared. A girl who respect you will never ask you more money than time in room.

[Java Man]

You do realise that there is a risk your family will be separated at the border, don't you?What Family? Real, confirmed monger, standing up and fully erect!

[Sirioja]

A girl asked for 30000 euro in FKK? Even for AO sex, that is absurd figure LOL.

AO BJ AKA BBBJ is even 50 euro extra nowadays in some clubs, but wow 30.000 Euro, it would be better off for you to get wrx sti or lancer evolution for your weekend 1000 km drive to German FKK and mountain Siri.I never paid any extra for AO fucking, BBBJ, or kissing, and I will never pay. Oana was cute and smiling, but not at all a top class model type. Because I discovered World on end of January 2014, pretty Samanta was my first girl for a great first room, but she blocked in mind on next Saturday, too GFE sex for her, so I discovered Oana and EMA now Andrea with weight at Oase, for weekly rooms. After about 1 month of weekly rooms, Oana just tried to fuck me as a newbie, when EMA / Andrea always stayed lovely, even when I stopped for Isabella and Madi, and still at Oase when I see her, always saying: long time, I didn't see you. But some members needed to write about before being able to think a bit about the ridiculous, some need so much to gossip about other guys, they even pay time in room for this. As say some of my girls who are bullshit about me: You must be the guy with most jealousy about You.

I don't think Impreza or Lancer would resist to my rhythm, but for 30000, I'm pretty sure I can fly to Bishkek and find a superb Kyrgyze, I can fuck her as I like for more than 1 year, and even ask her to rim me to wash my ass if I need, for such money, but I think I would prefer to treat her like a princess to get the best from her, as I do with my Romanians in FKK. Seeing Globe superstar behaving about me, after I didn't go with her on last time we saw on November 2017, after seeing me going with other girls before her, but what a delight when I went to her when she was smiling all along the day, a so enjoyable behavior for my mind.

I wonder if she works on next Sylvester, even better to do for Sylvester, even Globe Sylvester party is expensive = 170 for a gay party and guys have to fight for girls at night, but I wonder if I ask her, what she would choose on new year time, between big money business or sweet love, even only in club.

[Optimist]

McAdonis. I am afraid I almost never consider a working girl as a friend. And certainly not Betty. Nor Damaris for whom I still have a soft spot, but who pushed her luck too far. A friend would be someone I trusted to help me if I had a serious problem. Maybe in all my mongering career there were under half a dozen girls who came within this category. I never forget that in clubs it is a business relationship, however much fun it may be to play the "illusion" game.

I am sure you are right about Evita. The best workers know the key to big money is to pretend (or even believe) they are friends to clients. I avoided her as my spider sense told me she was not genuine for me (just my gut reaction: not knocking any guys who were clients). Other girls have kept me as a regular customer as they were able to make me think they genuinely liked me.

My current Queen is on probation. She stayed in touch through six months in romania and has now returned to Dortmund. We shall see how this story goes.

Hope that answers. Just impressions not tablets of stone

Cheers.

[Optimist]

Sirioja You are right. She asked lots of guys for big money. I used to tease her about her tactics to enslave guys, and we had a lot of fun chatting.

[Mr Ho]

Sirioja You are right. She asked lots of guys for big money. I used to tease her about her tactics to enslave guys, and we had a lot of fun chatting.Do people really fall for such tactic and end up paying so much money?

I know a case I think it was in parking plot of Dolce Vita where client killed working girl because he was in love with her. I heard this happened quite recently like in 2015 or something like that.

[BluesBrother]

I have a question and do no know where to post-it.

Is it also true Germans have no sense of humor?I know a lot of German girls and this is absolutely true.

[Sirioja]

Do people really fall for such tactic and end up paying so much money?

I know a case I think it was in parking plot of Dolce Vita where client killed working girl because he was in love with her. I heard this happened quite recently like in 2015 or something like that.Yes, some give very big money to WGs, sometimes taking bank credit, unfortunately some also kill WGs like one ex Sharks. Unfortunately, FKK land is not land of cleverness, to be able to understand it's just a game, to be able to enjoy, or not.

[Sebastiane]

Talking about being asked for lots of money etc. One of my regulars who I got to know well, and we regularly texted / FB / messaged asked me to buy an apartment for her and her mother!! I said no eventually but I was 'in love' with her at the time and seriously considered it before I saw sense and declined!

The bottom line is in this game 'he who has the money gets the honey'.

[Member #4581]

Talking about being asked for lots of money etc. One of my regulars who I got to know well, and we regularly texted / FB / messaged asked me to buy an apartment for her and her mother!! I said no eventually but I was 'in love' with her at the time and seriously considered it before I saw sense and declined!

The bottom line is in this game 'he who has the money gets the honey'.Wow. Seriously?!

And I got bashed here when I said I gave a ten and twenty tip here and there. Clueless American, they said. LOL.

Pardon me, but 50 E gets you the honey, and even with the sharkiest of them all, a hundred would most certainly do the trick. What more can you get for an extra 29,900 (or however much it costs to buy an apartment for both the lady and her mom)?

[Mr Ho]

I never paid any extra for AO fucking, BBBJ, or kissing, and I will never pay. Oana was cute and smiling, but not at all a top class model type. Because I discovered World on end of January 2014, pretty Samanta was my first girl for a great first room, but she blocked in mind on next Saturday, too GFE sex for her, so I discovered Oana and EMA now Andrea with weight at Oase, for weekly rooms. After about 1 month of weekly rooms, Oana just tried to fuck me as a newbie, when EMA / Andrea always stayed lovely, even when I stopped for Isabella and Madi, and still at Oase when I see her, always saying: long time, I didn't see you. But some members needed to write about before being able to think a bit about the ridiculous, some need so much to gossip about other guys, they even pay time in room for this. As say some of my girls who are bullshit about me: You must be the guy with most jealousy about You..I know you are veteran, but for me, I have not paid extra for BBBJ yet, but I have paid up to 150 euro per hour session in club like Palace, for other clubs mostly one hour session get me all, but I am feeling this is just matter of time. However, once, I did pay 200 euro per hour session in palace for Jennifer two cum back in the days when she once used to be beautiful, now declined. FKK business do either make girl look tired fast, or put tattoos, big lip surgery, or tit job or all I mentioned in matter of time LOL.

I kinda thought wrx sti or lancer evolution or some kind of rally car would be good travel compadre for your every weekend 1000 km trip plus the mountain hobby so And 30000 euro can get those car in Europe too I think.

NRW region is still OK for me with some negotiation in oceans, but I am feeling it is matter of time and I do think we had golden era till last July where 50 euro or 60 euro in Artemis can get you minimum DATY, BBBJ and fuck and even DFK if you are lucky, I even got rim twice included in those price, but that is rare. It was good golden days.

[Mr Ho]

Yes, some give very big money to WGs, sometimes taking bank credit, unfortunately some also kill WGs like one ex Sharks. Unfortunately, FKK land is not land of cleverness, to be able to understand it's just a game, to be able to enjoy, or not.I heard the story took place in Dolce Vita parking plot few years ago and I got to know it through palace girl as apparently the victim girl once worked at palace.

Apparently victim girl was doing the same mind game on attacker who was a client of hers and I imagine managed to pull some large cash out of the attacker guy who once was client who thought he is more than client. She ended up paying with her life and so as him. Scary crazy story.

It is hard to believe how much FKK has different purpose for each guy, for me I do not like any string attached with girls so I like being monger, but for some guys. They go to brothel to find love of their life?.

I do think some FKK girls are actually good spirited and I respect how much they managed to stay strong and still good heart in such hard situation of working in FKK, but that is where I stop. But I guess some guys do not have good brake, I guess they need Porsche ceramic brake install to their mind, evo or wrx sti braked are not good enough for them.

I even got problem for paying more than 50 euro extra for GFE service LOL.

[LaBambaBoy]

As a newbie about to take my first trip to Frankfurt for the FKK experience, I was curious how smokey I should expect the clubs to be. I'm assuming most of the girls are smokers (goes hand in hand with the business in my experience), and I know there is smoking in the clubs, but are there non smoking areas? I can handle it, just curious what to expect.

I'll be sticking tot he clubs around Frankfurt, Sharks, Main, Oase, etc.

[Sirioja]

I heard the story took place in Dolce Vita parking plot few years ago and I got to know it through palace girl as apparently the victim girl once worked at palace.

Apparently victim girl was doing the same mind game on attacker who was a client of hers and I imagine managed to pull some large cash out of the attacker guy who once was client who thought he is more than client. She ended up paying with her life and so as him. Scary crazy story.

It is hard to believe how much FKK has different purpose for each guy, for me I do not like any string attached with girls so I like being monger, but for some guys. They go to brothel to find love of their life?.

I do think some FKK girls are actually good spirited and I respect how much they managed to stay strong and still good heart in such hard situation of working in FKK, but that is where I stop. But I guess some guys do not have good brake, I guess they need Porsche ceramic brake install to their mind, evo or wrx sti braked are not good enough for them.

I even got problem for paying more than 50 euro extra for GFE service LOL.Ex Sharks girl was killed I think in a hotel between Darmstadt and Frankfurt.

I see you know a bit about car technique, WRX or Lancer engines would not resist for long from 90000 kms per year full speed on autobahn, so on more than 6500 rounds / mn. Rallyes are 400 kms.

Yes some guys become really crazy about girls. They should look better at them going to be fucked by other guys.

[Sirioja]

I know you are veteran, but for me, I have not paid extra for BBBJ yet, but I have paid up to 150 euro per hour session in club like Palace, for other clubs mostly one hour session get me all, but I am feeling this is just matter of time. However, once, I did pay 200 euro per hour session in palace for Jennifer two cum back in the days when she once used to be beautiful, now declined. FKK business do either make girl look tired fast, or put tattoos, big lip surgery, or tit job or all I mentioned in matter of time LOL.

I kinda thought wrx sti or lancer evolution or some kind of rally car would be good travel compadre for your every weekend 1000 km trip plus the mountain hobby so And 30000 euro can get those car in Europe too I think.

NRW region is still OK for me with some negotiation in oceans, but I am feeling it is matter of time and I do think we had golden era till last July where 50 euro or 60 euro in Artemis can get you minimum DATY, BBBJ and fuck and even DFK if you are lucky, I even got rim twice included in those price, but that is rare. It was good golden days.No veteran, no specialist, I just hate to speak about money with girls because it kill my desire which need a bit of illusion. I paid 40/30 mn for Kate at Aca, now I pay 50 at GT. I paid 50/30 mn in Hessen for Isabella, Megan, Katalina, now I pay 130 at Globe. No problem for me, I just want to pay club rate without speaking about money with the girl. I don t want to pay for extras, I let my manners with women make the job. Usually it doesn't work so bad, and they return to me, even most are among the busiest. Behavior pay like money, with girls.

[FunExplorer]

As a newbie about to take my first trip to Frankfurt for the FKK experience, I was curious how smokey I should expect the clubs to be. I'm assuming most of the girls are smokers (goes hand in hand with the business in my experience), and I know there is smoking in the clubs, but are there non smoking areas? I can handle it, just curious what to expect.

I'll be sticking tot he clubs around Frankfurt, Sharks, Main, Oase, etc.In sharks, you can smoke everywhere and people do so. In Oase, the smoking area is slightly away from no smoking area. Palace and Mainhattan have got separate enclosures for smokers.

[Mr Ho]

Ex Sharks girl was killed I think in a hotel between Darmstadt and Frankfurt.

I see you know a bit about car technique, WRX or Lancer engines would not resist for long from 90000 kms per year full speed on autobahn, so on more than 6500 rounds / mn. Rallyes are 400 kms.

Yes some guys become really crazy about girls. They should look better at them going to be fucked by other guys.90000 km per year? That is amount of km you drive per year? I mean to FKK it make sense from France.

Yeah rally car or any sport car won't last without maintenance for 90000 km. Per year, but then go for Toyota best reliability LOL.

[Mr Ho]

No veteran, no specialist, I just hate to speak about money with girls because it kill my desire which need a bit of illusion. I paid 40/30 mn for Kate at Aca, now I pay 50 at GT. I paid 50/30 mn in Hessen for Isabella, Megan, Katalina, now I pay 130 at Globe. No problem for me, I just want to pay club rate without speaking about money with the girl. I don t want to pay for extras, I let my manners with women make the job. Usually it doesn't work so bad, and they return to me, even most are among the busiest. Behavior pay like money, with girls.Well try palace German table, there is 50 euro session, but that ain't much at least for German table and co. Other girls can be good for standard session, but in palace that is even rare too if they are stunners.

Nrw for that is best beside oceans.

Artemis used to be good club as I did get sometimes to find stunner who provide all for 60 euro, but now it is almost as upsell as palace, I stopped going there. Used to be such a good diverse line up club.

I do not mind paying up but not more than 150 euro per hour max. I do think 50 euro rate is bit low for girls as they often say, if it is just 50 euro sessions all day, they cannot make living and their body cannot resist it as end up in too much session where guy is fresh as beast, girls are tired each bang, which kind of I understand. I just do not like hard upselling. Some members reported some girls asking 300 euro etc. I never had that hardcore ones, usually it is 150 euro, but soon I may be facing 100 euro 30 min session offer in some places like at palace German table or hamburg I never been yet. I may just stick to NRW and fly into Zurich routine.

[Incognito Int]

Java: Looks like I can't subscribe, as I'm from the US as well and they won't allow transactions. Perhaps we could coordinate here? Monday or Tuesday the 27th and 28th are best for me. It would be good to have a partner in crime to share adventures. Get in touch of you think we can work it out. If not, good luck and have fun!


My first trip to Germany also. I'll be in Frankfurt during your stay. I also have a friend who lives near Frankfurt. (We're from Amerika, hope you won't hold that against us. LOL) You'll have to subscribe in order to PM, so we can coordinate.

[ExpatLover]

Well try palace German table, there is 50 euro session, but that ain't much at least for German table and co. Other girls can be good for standard session, but in palace that is even rare too if they are stunners.

Nrw for that is best beside oceans.

Artemis used to be good club as I did get sometimes to find stunner who provide all for 60 euro, but now it is almost as upsell as palace, I stopped going there. Used to be such a good diverse line up club.

I do not mind paying up but not more than 150 euro per hour max. I do think 50 euro rate is bit low for girls as they often say, if it is just 50 euro sessions all day, they cannot make living and their body cannot resist it as end up in too much session where guy is fresh as beast, girls are tired each bang, which kind of I understand. I just do not like hard upselling. Some members reported some girls asking 300 euro etc. I never had that hardcore ones, usually it is 150 euro, but soon I may be facing 100 euro 30 min session offer in some places like at palace German table or hamburg I never been yet. I may just stick to NRW and fly into Zurich routine.In general the prices are not going up except for tourist or guys who are obviously not german, the trend is getting more service for less money just because the clubs are full of girls and the number of customers willing to spend cash is reducing year by year, so many guys with migration background just willing or able to spend 50 euros because most of them are married and they are low demanding, no kissing, licking but yes fucking sometimes hard but if the girls can t accept it so many jobs available in Germany everywhere and far better for the girls that to open their legs and mouths day after day.

[Chongmal]

I do not mind paying up but not more than 150 euro per hour max. I do think 50 euro rate is bit low for girls as they often say, if it is just 50 euro sessions all day, they cannot make livingLet's say a woman gets 10 x €50 sessions per day, which will average about 1.5 hours of active sex per day. If she works 22 days per month, allowing for 4 x 2 day breaks plus one extra day per month. This works out to about €11,000 per month. Using a high average of 50% taxation, if she declared 100% of her earnings as taxable income, I highly doubt there is any WG doing this, then she would have about €5500 left after income tax plus social tax less operating expenses. So completely taxed, after expenses, €5500 for 33 hours of sex acts is about €166 per hour of sex. Of course there is her other time, sitting, waiting, sucking up drinks and sucking on cigarettes but I'm focusing just on the sex acts.

Even if you count the long hours, including all the time she spends in the club, then €5500 per month after tax and expenses is still quite survivable, especially considering that it's over double the average net salary in Germany, France, Spain, Belgium, The NL, Italy and almost every other leading European country. Even if the girls sent a double monthly net salary back home to Romania, they would still be way above the average for the countries they are living in.

The big difference, sex workers are like professional athletes, most don't stay in their prime for ten years, unless they work at GT Bruggen. Most spend crazy money on vacations, cars, clothes, etc. One of the best things the legislation could have done would have been to provide investment counseling and possibly incentive programs for the ladies to be financially responsible. I have discussed assets vs things with several ladies in the clubs. A couple have listened, the rest have bought that new car, new Rolex, spent €10 k on a one week vacation to Ibiza.

If a lady in the club says she can't survive at €50 per half hour, take her to McDonald's and stand her behind the counter and let her give that a try. There she will find other people with similar backgrounds, working hard to actually be able to just survive. Who knows, maybe she will recruit some nice girls to come and join her at the clubs when she realizes how good she actually had it. I've seen quite a few girls behind the McDonald's counter who's education fund I would be happy to make a donation to.

[Mr Ho]

In sharks, you can smoke everywhere and people do so. In Oase, the smoking area is slightly away from no smoking area. Palace and Mainhattan have got separate enclosures for smokers.Sharks is big warehouse kinda place, so ceiling is very high, which help to clear the smoke away, therefore it did not bother me much.

Beside Frankfurt. If anyone do not like smoke, stay away from Artemis that is for sure. As for gt I hear it became non smoking in main bar area recently.

[BigBuddy69]

If a lady in the club says she can't survive at 50 per half hour, take her to McDonald's and stand her behind the counter and let her give that a try. There she will find other people with similar backgrounds, working hard to actually be able to just survive. Who knows, maybe she will recruit some nice girls to come and join her at the clubs when she realizes how good she actually had it. I've seen quite a few girls behind the McDonald's counter who's education fund I would be happy to make a donation to.Or you can send her in an Amazon warehouse to prepare the packages, I'm sure it will be a lot easier physically speaking and she'll make a lot more money.

[Mr Ho]

Let's say a woman gets 10 x 50 sessions per day, which will average about 1.5 hours of active sex per day. If she works 22 days per month, allowing for 4 x 2 day breaks plus one extra day per month. This works out to about 11,000 per month. Using a high average of 50% taxation, if she declared 100% of her earnings as taxable income, I highly doubt there is any WG doing this, then she would have about 5500 left after income tax plus social tax less operating expenses. So completely taxed, after expenses, 5500 for 33 hours of sex acts is about 166 per hour of sex. Of course there is her other time, sitting, waiting, sucking up drinks and sucking on cigarettes but I'm focusing just on the sex acts..You missed my point and also what some of the girls were saying in club.

Look if all clients just mostly go for 50 euro, what those girls meant and I meant was that their body cannot take it.

I mean 50 euro and usually girls shoot for 500 euro minimum and some often say they are shooting for 1000 euro per day, so just imagine how much rooms she got to do if most or all clients are just 50 euro per 30 min.

I also think comparing their work to average salary is not fair as FKK is special kind of work.

What I meant and girls meant is that just 50 euro sessions all day is too much for their physical human body.

I understand there are girls who support their living via behind MacDonald counters or waitress etc doing their best, but I also give some understanding to girls who says she cannot do 50 euro per 30 min sessions only then her body cannot take it as well.

However that does not mean I will fall for the crazy up sell LOL. I do however do not mind going for longer session for one hour as long as I can cum two times. Max I pay up is 150 euro per hour, as long as session is good and this is only in certain club like palace German table. Other places are still ok to my experience so far. Ah also Artemis became hardcore upsell club.

[PlasticBasin6]

After lurking for the past year or two, I finally checked out a couple FKKs in person. I went to Oase and Sharks, and both lived up to the hype. Several of the girls mentioned connecting with me on WhatsApp and FaceBook. I avoided subject, because I don't know the risks. Are there any risks to connecting with these girls on social media? I use my real name in all of my social media accounts. Is there risk of blackmail? Identity theft? Robbery? Or are they just trying to maintain the interest of a client to guarantee I go with them next time I visit?

[Polyamorist]

Let's say a woman gets 10 x 50 sessions per day, which will average about 1.5 hours of active sex per day. If she works 22 days per month, allowing for 4 x 2 day breaks plus one extra day per month. This works out to about 11,000 per month. Using a high average of 50% taxation, if she declared 100% of her earnings as taxable income, I highly doubt there is any WG doing this, then she would have about 5500 left after income tax plus social tax less operating expenses. So completely taxed, after expenses, 5500 for 33 hours of sex acts is about 166 per hour of sex. Of course there is her other time, sitting, waiting, sucking up drinks and sucking on cigarettes but I'm focusing just on the sex acts.

Even if you count the long hours, including all the time she spends in the club, then 5500 per month after tax and expenses is still quite survivable.Salaam Chongmal. I agree. Raising the rate from 50 to 60 or 70 or whatever wouldn't address the underlying problem. The real problem is that cliques / cartels are spoiling the atmosphere of FKKs and driving away customers. If an FKK is a ghost town, not even the hottest chick is going to get 10 x 50 sessions a day. But if the vibe is good, she will. And 10 x 50 is certainly enough, as you say. I think even 5 x 50 would be comfortably better than working in McDonalds, assuming the girl likes sex. Anyway 5 x 50 is better than 1 x 60, which is what a girl is faced with in a gang-dominated club.

So I say, first get rid of the gangs, observe the increased business, *then* let's see if the girls still need a rate increase.

[Mr Ho]

Salaam Chongmal. I agree. Raising the rate from 50 to 60 or 70 or whatever wouldn't address the underlying problem. The real problem is that cliques / cartels are spoiling the atmosphere of FKKs and driving away customers. If an FKK is a ghost town, not even the hottest chick is going to get 10 x 50 sessions a day. But if the vibe is good, she will. And 10 x 50 is certainly enough, as you say. I think even 5 x 50 would be comfortably better than working in McDonalds, assuming the girl likes sex. Anyway 5 x 50 is better than 1 x 60, which is what a girl is faced with in a gang-dominated club.

So I say, first get rid of the gangs, observe the increased business, *then* let's see if the girls still need a rate increase.I think price cartels are bad thing and it exist among girls forcing other girls not to do this and that for standard session etc.

However, as for gangs, when bike people were obvious on the scene, I have to say they provided some very good looking stunners. Mostly tattooed but some were real beauty. I do miss their more obvious presence on the scene. I am sure they still exist or shifted to more Romanian Albanian type gang, but biker people brought in many German girls in to FKK scene back in the day that I do miss.

It is hard for girls to just walk into FKK especially if they are young and they need little support to walk into german FKK industry, so I appreciate the service lover boys, pimps, gang or any group related to helping girls walk into FKK industry.

[XXL]

After lurking for the past year or two, I finally checked out a couple FKKs in person. I went to Oase and Sharks, and both lived up to the hype. Several of the girls mentioned connecting with me on WhatsApp and FaceBook. ...So you haven't known FKKs for more than a few weeks and already girls are plying you with their social media IDs. Wow. Over the past 5 or 6 years of being a regular customer to many German FKKs I still have to meet a single working girl suggesting of her own accord we stay in touch on Fb or Whattsapp.

[Fericit]

After lurking for the past year or two, I finally checked out a couple FKKs in person. I went to Oase and Sharks, and both lived up to the hype. Several of the girls mentioned connecting with me on WhatsApp and FaceBook. I avoided subject, because I don't know the risks. Are there any risks to connecting with these girls on social media? Is there risk of blackmail? Identity theft? Robbery? Or are they just trying to maintain the interest of a client to guarantee I go with them next time I visit?Yes, there is a huge risk if you connect with them on Whatsapp / social media. They will send you little kiss faces and hearts and shit. Then, you won't be able to stop thinking about them. Then you will constantly obsess about returning to Germany as quickly as you can and planning your next trips. Then before you know it, you are in financial ruin because you spent all your time and money on FKKs.

Huge risk. Don't do it.

[ShooBree]

50 euros, that's almost what you pay street hookers. They might as well begin to work in the streets.

How many of the girls have 10 clients a day or more? I'm sure the pros loves the thought of fucking 10 men a day for 50€ a pop.

By the way, fuck the FKK: s with their crazy high entrance fees. I go to the *****houses to drink and fuck, not to take a sauna.

[Chongmal]

You missed my point and also what some of the girls were saying in club.

Look if all clients just mostly go for 50 euro, what those girls meant and I meant was that their body cannot take it.

I mean 50 euro and usually girls shoot for 500 euro minimum and some often say they are shooting for 1000 euro per day, so just imagine how much rooms she got to do if most or all clients are just 50 euro per 30 min.

I also think comparing their work to average salary is not fair as FKK is special kind of work.

What I meant and girls meant is that just 50 euro sessions all day is too much for their physical human body..Actually, I understood your point exactly. I did make the comparison to professional athletes and stated that much in the same, most WGs won't be in their prime ten years into the business. To stay with this analogy, I should then have great compassion for professional athletes who make millions per year but are in financial ruins at the end of their playing career. I should also advocate for Ronaldo to get paid double because now the Spanish government is asking him to pay taxes, much the same as the German government is asking from WGs. It's horrible that the government has the audacity to collect taxes when the women and Ronaldo have to work so hard for their money. Don't get me wrong, I actually have more compassion for the women in the clubs. What frustrates me, especially, are those who are supporting pimps and loverboys, who live the high life off the money made by the woman braking her body.

If you look at the larger situation, most women in the business are there to escape a negative situation. Many are single mothers with unsupportive baby daddies. Some come from a family that has 9 children and live on a small farm that can't feed the family, so they have come west to earn money to pay for their parents lives and actions. Some have a drug addicted loverboys who convinced them that this is the best way to prove their love to him or maybe the women themselves have a drug problem themselves. Some arrive with none of these issues and soon find themselves with many of them.

The points I tried to make was the women are making enough to survive, most of them are actually having far less actual sex than many men imagine and if they actually participated in some sort of financial management then they would be able to improve there long term lives. Two women I consider myself friends with, have decided to invest in real estate. They have taken two different paths. The first has invested in her house plus two apartments. The apartments are to be rented as vacation accommodations. Her hopes, if she finishes paying for the two apartments before retiring from the job, she will have enough income from renting them out to survive and the money she makes from her regular job is bonus. The other has invested in agricultural land. There is less investment required up front and the returns are slower. She paid cash up front and leases the land out to a local farmer. Her annual income for the property is not as high but she is playing the long game. Real estate prices in the area have surged over 25% in the last 5 years. If she holds the property for a number of years she should be able to sell it at a great profit or pass it within her family. She also has her plan to work and earn money during her 30 years after retiring from the business. These are two examples of women making the best from the situation. Two other women I know are focused on things instead of assets. The first has her dream of a white BMW X6. The second wants her ladies white gold Rolex with diamonds. I have had the Things vs Assets talk with both but I think they have their hearts set on the cash and flash.

Now to show my compassion for the ladies. If I was going to advocate for any major change to benefit them, I would say that the clubs should not be able to force them to be present an excessive number of hours per day. I know many clubs where a woman arriving after a certain time in the day has to stay for up to 12 hours. If the club wants women present to the end, they should provide a some type incentive rather than forcing the woman to work extra hours.

[Vito Corleone]

After lurking for the past year or two, I finally checked out a couple FKKs in person. I went to Oase and Sharks, and both lived up to the hype. Several of the girls mentioned connecting with me on WhatsApp and FaceBook. I avoided subject, because I don't know the risks. Are there any risks to connecting with these girls on social media? I use my real name in all of my social media accounts. Is there risk of blackmail? Identity theft? Robbery? Or are they just trying to maintain the interest of a client to guarantee I go with them next time I visit?FB, I wouldn't share this info but whatsapp is fine. Just expect 45% of the population in Romania to all of the sudden need Energency life saving surgery.

[Rocky V]

After lurking for the past year or two, I finally checked out a couple FKKs in person. I went to Oase and Sharks, and both lived up to the hype. Several of the girls mentioned connecting with me on WhatsApp and FaceBook. I avoided subject, because I don't know the risks. Are there any risks to connecting with these girls on social media? I use my real name in all of my social media accounts. Is there risk of blackmail? Identity theft? Robbery? Or are they just trying to maintain the interest of a client to guarantee I go with them next time I visit?Yes, there are risks in revealing your true identity to WGs, so do not do it. Remember they are only after your money!

Rock.

[Jooeey]

I was reading an article, and came across one line, but could not understand it. What do you guys reckon it could be?

"More Prostitutes Per Capita" What does that even mean?

[Sirioja]

So you haven't known FKKs for more than a few weeks and already girls are plying you with their social media IDs. Wow. Over the past 5 or 6 years of being a regular customer to many German FKKs I still have to meet a single working girl suggesting of her own accord we stay in touch on Fb or Whattsapp.Very usual, in Germany, Austria, NL and at Globe, girls propose to have contact on whatsapp, then they can ask when You will return. Fortunately for me, I have or had 6 regulars with more than 30 rooms, all Romanians, but they don t ask me money. They were all very honest about money, when we were often over 1 h, or 1 h30, but 100 or 150, and see you.

[Java Man]

Java: Looks like I can't subscribe, as I'm from the US as well and they won't allow transactions. Perhaps we could coordinate here? Monday or Tuesday the 27th and 28th are best for me. It would be good to have a partner in crime to share adventures. Get in touch of you think we can work it out. If not, good luck and have fun!That Sucks, but are you aware you can pay by mail? "You may also purchase your Forum Subscription via US Mail using cash (Dollars or Euros). It's easy, fast and completely anonymous. ". However, "Your subscription will be activated in approximately 1-2 weeks. " Other way to Senior membership: After 6 months AND have posted 25 or more reports. You're months and 21 reports away.

I'm headed to Berlin next Tuesday, the 28th. Suggestion: Meet someplace at time convenient to you.
Check to make sure where you're staying has a/c, a lot of these old buildings don't have it. It was 94F when I arrived Wed, Hot today, hopefully cools off Friday.

[Optimist]

XXL. Sounds like the pimp training school for girls has a module entitled "Use FB and WhatsApp" to get money from target clients.

You are clearly too experienced to be a target.

Cheers.

[Pistons]

Very usual, in Germany, Austria, NL and at Globe, girls propose to have contact on whatsapp, then they can ask when You will return. Fortunately for me, I have or had 6 regulars with more than 30 rooms, all Romanians, but they don t ask me money. They were all very honest about money, when we were often over 1 h, or 1 h30, but 100 or 150, and see you.One girl told me last month: 'I don't give out my whatsapp to a 50 e guy. That other guy (a poster on ISG) always stays an hour, so he has it'.

Basically, it comes down to how big of a spender you are with her. I have had some 15 ish FKK girls on whatsapp mainly (and 2 on fb), but a few of them have deleted me if they have seen me unfaithful to them at the club and going with other girls. Or at least they seem like they have a new number / just won't read messages (LOL). Not many girls have said they really liked me and added me after just one 30 min session. Just 2 I think, and one of them probably went there because she was new (and is now dating a Turk or Romanian).

One tried the western union scam on me. The girl is smart I admit, but maybe not the best reader on other guys.

If I was an FKK girl I wouldn't have anything against handing out my number. It is great marketing. They just got to tone down the chatting if it takes over. Some guys fall in love and chat too much too soon.

[Mr Ho]

Actually, I understood your point exactly. I did make the comparison to professional athletes and stated that much in the same, most WGs won't be in their prime ten years into the business. To stay with this analogy, I should then have great compassion for professional athletes who make millions per year but are in financial ruins at the end of their playing career. I should also advocate for Ronaldo to get paid double because now the Spanish government is asking him to pay taxes, much the same as the German government is asking from WGs. It's horrible that the government has the audacity to collect taxes when the women and Ronaldo have to work so hard for their money. Don't get me wrong, I actually have more compassion for the women in the clubs. What frustrates me, especially, are those who are supporting pimps and loverboys, who live the high life off the money made by the woman braking her body.

If you look at the larger situation, most women in the business are there to escape a negative situation. Many are single mothers with unsupportive baby daddies. Some come from a family that has 9 children and live on a small farm that can't feed the family, so they have come west to earn money to pay for their parents lives and actions. Some have a drug addicted loverboys who convinced them that this is the best way to prove their love to him or maybe the women themselves have a drug problem themselves. Some arrive with none of these issues and soon find themselves with many of them.Yeah, it is tough not just on women, but also men too in this business world where market is too saturated and globalization enabled for us consumers access to cheap products, but increase the competition by far.

Prostitution is kind of special job though. I mean it is physical, but also very mental too that doom some of them for all her life. Plus professional athlete has clear cv, but prostitute. I mean they got big blank on cv unless she write she was prostitute or lie that she was waitress etc.

However, it is possible to save few hundred thousands euro over years if girls are smart. Which some may do, but very little, most spend it on lover boy, pimp, family, or car or watch or bag to relief their stress. Some are nice girls so I do wish some of them made it in to normal life as they plan. Or marry some ignorant guy at least who look after them.

Meanwhile, we need more globalization and competition for lineup in German FKK!

[Sebastiane]

Wow. Seriously?!
. What more can you get for an extra 29,900 (or however much it costs to buy an apartment for both the lady and her mom)?I don't know as I didn't buy it! The said girl left the business and got engaged to her childhood sweetheart which was nice. I still occasionally get a message from her I moved on to other more beautiful girls in the same FKKs (although I have fallen in love thrice with girls in FKKs but that's not a high rate considering how long I've been mongering; more importantly it's never actually led to me doing anything stupid although I was once close to asking one girl to marry me but the fact that she already had a kid was the issue. And she would probably have said no but I didn't ask her directly but I think she got the hint. It was a girl from Artemis, German of Turkish origins) !

I am a generous guy but I rarely pay above the club rates unless I want specific extras (which I often do as I am a kinky young guy) and I often book 1 hour sessions as I find it hard to come in 30 minutes (after my first session) so I end up paying about 150-200 per hour with extras (things like NS.

Rimjob, sometimes DFK if girl is a stunner) but never for just a suck and fuck unless the girl is one I absolutely must do. (Sometimes happens!) I have noticed in each club over the past decade of mongering that girls pay close attention to who you go with, how long you stay, how many sessions you do and how much you pay and they discuss these things. So after a while your reputation precedes you and, if it is good, you get girls wanting to go with you. Of course sometimes it can be the other way too and girls refuse you (for example because you have a rep for fucking too hard and too long). But it's nice to have a good rep as you get much better service.

I do think that more guys probably fall in love with FKK girls (often I bet its unrequited)- and I am sure sometimes a girl falls in love with a guy (though much rarer)- then we think; I guess it depends on your age and your condition; not everyone who goes to FKKs is a really fat old German man in his 60's! Lots of these girls are gold diggers and would be OK with marrying a rich old man knowing they'd leave him in the near future. And many middle ages guys have a so-called midlife crisis and want to date 20 year old girls. I have to say I've had more success with dating 20 year old in my 40's then I did when I was in my 20's (and I am not talking about FKK girls or prostitutes now); I think going to FKKs made me much more confident. Also, I have a lot more money now then I did in my 20's and to quote one friend of mine who is a medical student 'many girls would rather date a rich older man than a poor guy their own age!

Having said all that I can think of a number of my FKK regulars over the years whom I would have happily married (though they might not have been so interested but never asked!

[Incognito Int]

Want to try for Monday? I arrived today and yes, very hot. I'll be staying at a decent hotel downtown. Monday is my best day to go, and I am still considering and escort on Tuesday. Let's try this: If you want to meet Monday, let me know a bar where we could meet for a drink and then we can hit the FKK's from there? I don't mind an early start.

Best I can do without backchannel ability. If it doesn't work out, report here on how your trip went. Thanks!


That Sucks, but are you aware you can pay by mail? "You may also purchase your Forum Subscription via US Mail using cash (Dollars or Euros). It's easy, fast and completely anonymous. ". However, "Your subscription will be activated in approximately 1-2 weeks. " Other way to Senior membership: After 6 months AND have posted 25 or more reports. You're months and 21 reports away.

I'm headed to Berlin next Tuesday, the 28th. Suggestion: Meet someplace at time convenient to you.
Check to make sure where you're staying has a/c, a lot of these old buildings don't have it. It was 94F when I arrived Wed, Hot today, hopefully cools off Friday.

[Chongmal]

FB, I wouldn't share this info but whatsapp is fine.Just be aware, if you have your phone number connected to your FB, then someone can search your phone number from FB and your happy smiley face, name, family members etc. Will show up.

[DanielMccc]

I am going on my second FKK Fucket tour in early Sep for two weeks. As I will be flying over 25 hours to come to this side of the world, I want to make the most out of it.

I have shortlisted several clubs I went last few times and will be visiting again, or those I have read enough good reviews that I would like to try out.

1. Living Room (enjoyed my last visit, small club homey feel, LU ok, good start).

2. Samya (so-so experience, a bit crowded at times, not a fans of paying extra for BBBJ).

3. Oase (one of my favourite clubs, not perfect but good balance).

4. Sharks Darmstadt (I could like it more but too many pushy sharks when I went there last time, will try again).

5. Mainhattan Frankfurt.

6. World Giessen (never been, but would like to find out what it is like, similar to Oase?

7. Colosseum Augsburg (been there, seems to be the only respectable option near Munich).

I am starting my trip from Dusseldorf and end in Munich over two weeks, would love to hear your suggestions to fill in the gap.

Here are my "maybe" list of clubs.

1. Babylon Koln (never been there, but looks good on the website).

2. Acapulco Velbert (never been there, potential option? How is the club atmosphere and general LU?

3. Ocean Dusseldorf (been once, somewhat good facility but was very empty when I went, disappointing LU).

4. Golden Time (never been, how would you rank / compare to LR?

Any recommendations for near Wurzburg and Munich?

[Sirioja]

One girl told me last month: 'I don't give out my whatsapp to a 50 e guy. That other guy (a poster on ISG) always stays an hour, so he has it'.

Basically, it comes down to how big of a spender you are with her. I have had some 15 ish FKK girls on whatsapp mainly (and 2 on fb), but a few of them have deleted me if they have seen me unfaithful to them at the club and going with other girls. Or at least they seem like they have a new number / just won't read messages (LOL). Not many girls have said they really liked me and added me after just one 30 min session. Just 2 I think, and one of them probably went there because she was new (and is now dating a Turk or Romanian).

One tried the western union scam on me. The girl is smart I admit, but maybe not the best reader on other guys.

If I was an FKK girl I wouldn't have anything against handing out my number. It is great marketing. They just got to tone down the chatting if it takes over. Some guys fall in love and chat too much too soon.Some girls even asked me if I wanted to have contact after first room. Then, I always make my number on her phone, then she can think if she wants to send me message or not. They also send new number when they change. For sure, I m not a 30 mn 50€ guy, but most often only 1 h 100 in Germany.

Smart girls never ask money, because they prefer to keep our business for long time. Only low level girls try to make big one shot fucking. None of my long time, very regulars never ask me money. But for sure, some became very upset, bullshiting about me, when I stopped with them or seeing me going with other girls, when they used to come to me every week as soon they saw me. Megan lost her so beautiful smile on April when she saw me going with other girls. I think I helped her from her start at Mainhattan when she was not busy, but for Globe expensive rate, I find much higher level to make love in bed.

[Member #4581]

Sybarite2006 -- Thanks for the thoughtful response. Did n't mean to question your personal choices BTW; my question was more of a generic and rhetorical statement. I was just musing that normally guys spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on dating, wooing, doting on the girl with the aim of gaining her good impression and eventually getting into her pants. Here in FKK, the situation is sometimes turned on its head and a few guys may be paying small or even vast sums *after coitus* and with the aim of gaining her good impression. Popular media says all men want to dress up and leave the minute sex is finished but that does not seem to be the case all the time.

Also interesting that opinion for / against marriage runs 10/90 on this board, and yet as you suggested some mongers are deeply connected emotionally to some WGs and going so far as to propose marriage. I will make one prediction: the chance that such marriages survive for long will be slim. Not to be cynical, but just my personal view.

[Ecivelum]

Any recommendations for currently working girls in German FKK clubs (or elsewhere) with really nice big clits? Preferably young, slim and attractive as well. I've searched, but most references in Europe are a few years old. Plenty in Mexico, Latin America, Africa etc!

[Java Man]

Want to try for Monday? I'll be staying at a decent hotel downtown. Monday is my best day to go, Let's try this: If you want to meet Monday, let me know a bar where we could meet for a drink and then we can hit the FKK's from there? I don't mind an early start. Best I can do without backchannel ability.Monday's cool. I'm staying across the street from Hauptbahnhof, the Main Train station. Give me a rough idea of your location, or nearby landmark, to figure out where to meet.

[Sirioja]

Yes, there is a huge risk if you connect with them on Whatsapp / social media. They will send you little kiss faces and hearts and shit. Then, you won't be able to stop thinking about them. Then you will constantly obsess about returning to Germany as quickly as you can and planning your next trips. Then before you know it, you are in financial ruin because you spent all your time and money on FKKs.

Huge risk. Don't do it.Aren't you able to control what you do? Even when they write kisses or smileys.

[Sirioja]

Talking about being asked for lots of money etc. One of my regulars who I got to know well, and we regularly texted / FB / messaged asked me to buy an apartment for her and her mother!! I said no eventually but I was 'in love' with her at the time and seriously considered it before I saw sense and declined!

The bottom line is in this game 'he who has the money gets the honey'.Maybe because I was new at World, and went with her every Saturday for about 1 month, so Oana might think I fell in love for her, but she just lost my weekly business, when others got it at World for months.

But some guys give very very big money. Smart girls don't ask money, they prefer to keep our business.

[Chongmal]

I am going on my second FKK Fucket tour in early Sep for two weeks. As I will be flying over 25 hours to come to this side of the world, I want to make the most out of it.

I have shortlisted several clubs I went last few times and will be visiting again, or those I have read enough good reviews that I would like to try out.

1. Living Room (enjoyed my last visit, small club homey feel, LU ok, good start).

2. Samya (so-so experience, a bit crowded at times, not a fans of paying extra for BBBJ).

3. Oase (one of my favourite clubs, not perfect but good balance).

4. Sharks Darmstadt (I could like it more but too many pushy sharks when I went there last time, will try again).

5. Mainhattan Frankfurt.As one of the most frequent writers on the LR forum it really hurts me to say this, but if I had two weeks per year I would probably choose GT Bruggen over LR or consider combining them on the same day. LR is quite slow at the moment. I have some regulars there so I'm never too disappointed with the club but if not for these regular women I might find it a bit limited.

If you've never been to Bab I would consider this as well, for the Unique environment for NRW clubs. I would also consider YinYang as an option since you are in the area. Quite a few LR ladies moved over there. My experience, if you ask a lady where she worked before, if she says LR you will probably receive very nice service. There are a couple other really nice ladies there but they are continually booked. Aca Velbert has an environment that can be disappointing, with no approach and limited couch time by the ladies, but there are a handful that I would consider in the top in NRW as providers. Just my opinion.

[Sebastiane]

I am going on my second FKK Fucket tour in early Sep for two weeks. As I will be flying over 25 hours to come to this side of the world, I want to make the most out of it.

I have shortlisted several clubs I went last few times and will be visiting again, or those I have read enough good reviews that I would like to try out.

1. Living Room (enjoyed my last visit, small club homey feel, LU ok, good start).

2. Samya (so-so experience, a bit crowded at times, not a fans of paying extra for BBBJ).

3. Oase (one of my favourite clubs, not perfect but good balance).

4. Sharks Darmstadt (I could like it more but too many pushy sharks when I went there last time, will try again).You should definitely add Palace in Frankfurt to that list and I'd also add Sakura in Stuttgart and Harmony in Hamburg. Near Munich the best FKK is easily Colosseum but it's in Augsburg (one hour from Munich). Hope that helps.

[Polyamorist]

I think price cartels are bad thing and it exist among girls forcing other girls not to do this and that for standard session etc.

However, as for gangs, when bike people were obvious on the scene, I have to say they provided some very good looking stunners. Mostly tattooed but some were real beauty. I do miss their more obvious presence on the scene.Salaam, Ho-san. I never said anything against bikers. I know a very good club in Switzerland that is run by bikers.

When I talk about gangs, I am generally referring to girl gangs, and (sometimes) the shadowy Romanian networks behind them.

[Steve 9696]

I apologize for the slight intrusion here but I often see discussion about which is better. German FKK or Brazil. I LOVE the FKK and have always said it could never be improved upon. I now have the perspective to offer a wider view, having seen 10 girls in seven days around Brazil — mostly São Paulo.

Summary — They are different. FKK offers all day lounging. But for best GFE Brazil is beyond compare. On price Brazil has a small edge. But the value is greater. . Initial contact in the club can add to expense but once you are on WhatsApp you can have her to your room for $100 an hour. Yes, not too much less than FKK but I am talking your best optifuck but with GFE on top. And you will truly believe she likes you deeply. They have GFE in their DNA.

So if I could fly any place in the world for a week, last year I would have said Germany. Today it is Brazil.

If you want the details see the São Paulo thread starting last Saturday.

[The Cane]

So if I could fly any place in the world for a week, last year I would have said Germany. Today it is Brazil.And welcome to the "in crowd" my friend. The ones in the know! The FKK scene is great, but Brazil is number one! What I (and others) have been saying for years. Welcome!

[Java Man]

I apologize for the slight intrusion here but I often see discussion about which is better. German FKK or Brazil. I LOVE the FKK and have always said it could never be improved upon. I now have the perspective to offer a wider view, having seen 10 girls in seven days around Brazil mostly So Paulo.

Summary They are different. FKK offers all day lounging. But for best GFE Brazil is beyond compare. On price Brazil has a small edge. But the value is greater. . Initial contact in the club can add to expense but once you are on WhatsApp you can have her to your room for $100 an hour. Yes, not too much less than FKK but I am talking your best optifuck but with GFE on top. And you will truly believe she likes you deeply. They have GFE in their DNA.

So if I could fly any place in the world for a week, last year I would have said Germany. Today it is Brazil.

If you want the details see the So Paulo thread starting last Saturday.Next time go to Rio, or add it to your SP trip, it's cheaper there. I read your Sao Paulo post and was surprised you were getting CBJ. Also garotas in the smaller clubs are less expensive. They saw you were a gringo newbie and hit you with the gringo tax. LOL $R200, currently $48 usd /41 euro will get a garota to your room in Rio for at least 2 hrs. If she likes you, she'll stay longer. They're not clock watchers. And no upselling. Generally speaking, They like to Fucgk!

The closest thing to a FKK in Rio are the Termas, but without the opulence and nudity. (The chicks are in bikinis and heels, BTW.) Yeah, I like my experiences in Rio so much, I learn Portuguese. Made it even better! Kudos on your Reports, Sir! Excellent read.

[Mr Ho]

Salaam, Ho-san. I never said anything against bikers. I know a very good club in Switzerland that is run by bikers.

When I talk about gangs, I am generally referring to girl gangs, and (sometimes) the shadowy Romanian networks behind them.Right, they fixed the up sell prices among girls and try to enforce it on other girls in FKK not to give service for such and such price etc.

I also sense there are net work or plat form to bring them to Germany obviously as dominated amounts of romanians girls in FKK land is incredible, but that is good for us because they are beauties.

It is odd because one of the non Romanian girl connected me on facebook and I went through her friends list to see if I find some other girls I saw in clubs. I managed to find few on her friend lists, so I checked them through and some were Romanian girls. It is strange to find out some seem to be really a university student attending some Romanian university, so network behind is not as grim as we often imagine. Interesting and strange industry that we are involved with as happy end customers.

[Fericit]

Discussion moved here from Sharks thread. Topic not Sharks specific.


Haha. Let's be realistic. Probability wise it's highly possible to get all kinds of STDs in such clubs unless it's fatal. You can't have your cake and eat it. Right? Hope you can control your risk appropriately. At least I strongly suggest to you that you should take blood tests every three months.I used to do this, getting STD tests every 2-3 months to be on the safe side (in between trips). But, then I found that I never caught anything, so now I just have a precautionary screening done annually during my physical.

I found that as long as I wear a condom during sex, I don't seem to pick up anything. So, after all these years of never catching anything, getting STD screenings so frequently seemed like overkill. Maybe some people's dicks are magnets for STDs and need more frequent screenings? For me, I was just wasting $200 per additional screening.

Now, when I get do my precautionary screening done as part of my annual physical, it's completely free since it's classified as preventative care. And so far, all of my annual STD tests have come back clear.

[SvenFKK]

I used to do this, getting STD tests every 2-3 months to be on the safe side (in between trips). But, then I found that I never caught anything, so now I just have a precautionary screening done annually during my physical.
Of course, screening doesn't prevent anything. All it does is let you know that you have something earlier than you otherwise would. The only way that screening can prevent anything is to have it immediately before sex, which is apparently the case with HIV tests at some places.



I found that as long as I wear a condom during sex, I don't seem to pick up anything.
That's one of the main purposes of condoms (the other being birth control). (Of course, some working girls (and punters?) might wear them because it keeps one at a distance from the others' fluids.).

[DanielMccc]

You should definitely add Palace in Frankfurt to that list and I'd also add Sakura in Stuttgart and Harmony in Hamburg. Near Munich the best FKK is easily Colosseum but it's in Augsburg (one hour from Munich). Hope that helps.Thank you for the suggestions brothers. One more question, are most of the clubs below still charging 50 e for 30 min, 100 e for 60 min? What are the "standard" rate for extra like CIM? DFK?

I am based in cologne for a few days, so here is my new list starting from 5 Sep.

1. Ocean.

2. Babylon Cologne.

3. Living Room (Bruggen GT is too far for me and I don't have a car).

4. Samya (if there are better choices near cologne, let me know).

Then 9 Sep, sperm nursery day 1.

Then Frankfurt from 10 Sep.

1. Oase.

2. Sharks (may the force be with me to fight against the storm troopers of upselling).

3. Mainhattan or Palace (I prefer Mainhattan's smoking lounge, Palace's smoking lounge is hideous).

Then 13 Sep Sperm nursery day 2.

I will most likely finish my FKK Fucket-list tour with Colosseum.

Give me a hoy if you are crossing path with mine.

Praise be.

[TeaInTheSun]

Thank you for the suggestions brothers. One more question, are most of the clubs below still charging 50 e for 30 min, 100 e for 60 min? What are the "standard" rate for extra like CIM? DFK?

I am based in cologne for a few days, so here is my new list starting from 5 Sep.

1. Ocean.

2. Babylon Cologne.

3. Living Room (Bruggen GT is too far for me and I don't have a car).

4. Samya (if there are better choices near cologne, let me know)..Most known FKK's in Frankfurt area has those prices per session and extras are 50 e but anal is 100 e. In my experience, I never paid extra for DFK. For sure, if you pay one hour you will have more chances to get it. Most of my half hour sessions included DFK. I spend few time before to go to the room talking with ladies just to be sure if we will get certain chemistry. If you go to Cologne, my favorites are GT so far and then Samya. I was at Palace once and I am not planning to come back anymore. Only good thing is the food but you can get a memorable time there. Who knows. Just explore and happy times in FKKland!

[Chongmal]

I am based in cologne for a few days, so here is my new list starting from 5 Sep.

1. Ocean.

2. Babylon Cologne.

3. Living Room (Bruggen GT is too far for me and I don't have a car).I'm writing this as a word of caution. Yesterday, LR had one of the lightest Line-ups in terms of number of ladies and one of the worst Line-ups in terms of appearance. Honestly, there were maybe a half dozen nice ladies with three standing out optically and the others being better than average. The other 15 or so were average or lower than I expect. I did find one unexpected gem who optically is average but provided outstanding service. If I had been at other clubs or this club on other days I probably wouldn't have approached her but in the end I had a repeat session with here.

[Incognito Int]

Monday's cool. I'm staying across the street from Hauptbahnhof, the Main Train station. Give me a rough idea of your location, or nearby landmark, to figure out where to meet.Hey mate,

I'm also near the station. We can meet pretty much anywhere. Want to meet for a beer and form a plan?

===============================================

Greetings,

Here's how to contact other forum members.

1. Buy a subscription.

2. Send them a Private Message.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/custompages.php?pageid=Subscriptions

Thanks,

Jackson

[Java Man]

Hey mate, I'm also near the station. We can meet pretty much anywhere. Want to meet for a beer and form a plan?I forgot to mention, since you're New here, you're moderated, your messages don't post right away. I saw your post Tuesday Morning. And looks like Jackson is unaware you're US based. I'm not sure you can buy a subscription from here, (Germany,) as you will still be using a US credit card. I'm off to Berlin today. Best of Luck in your travels.

[Incognito Int]

I forgot to mention, since you're New here, you're moderated, your messages don't post right away. I saw your post Tuesday Morning. And looks like Jackson is unaware you're US based. I'm not sure you can buy a subscription from here, (Germany,) as you will still be using a US credit card. I'm off to Berlin today. Best of Luck in your travels.I realized the posts were delayed, so difficult to communicate promptly. I also tried the CC but you are correct, would not allow. Looks like I'll fly solo. Good luck to you!

[DanielMccc]

Most known FKK's in Frankfurt area has those prices per session and extras are 50 e but anal is 100 e. In my experience, I never paid extra for DFK. For sure, if you pay one hour you will have more chances to get it. Most of my half hour sessions included DFK. I spend few time before to go to the room talking with ladies just to be sure if we will get certain chemistry. If you go to Cologne, my favorites are GT so far and then Samya. I was at Palace once and I am not planning to come back anymore. Only good thing is the food but you can get a memorable time there. Who knows. Just explore and happy times in FKKland!

I'm writing this as a word of caution. Yesterday, LR had one of the lightest Line-ups in terms of number of ladies and one of the worst Line-ups in terms of appearance. Honestly, there were maybe a half dozen nice ladies with three standing out optically and the others being better than average. The other 15 or so were average or lower than I expect. I did find one unexpected gem who optically is average but provided outstanding service. If I had been at other clubs or this club on other days I probably wouldn't have approached her but in the end I had a repeat session with here.Thank you both and appreciate the tips and caution.

For a FKK-tourist like me, it's more than just LU (although it's an important factor! I had a memorable time at LR last year although I only had two ladies, but I like the homie atmosphere comparing to mega clubs like Oase / Sharks), I love the FKK atmosphere and I take my time to find my right lady to spend time with.

My mantra is, I am spending my night at whatever club I am in as if this was the last ever FKK experience I will have in my life, because I simply don't know when my next opportunity would be as I live on the other side of the planet, on a remote island surrounded by cows and sheep.

Now, new question, as I will be stopping over in Wurzburg, is FKK Viva or FKK Eden any good? Any experience? They look small and have horrible reviews on Dr Google. Would I be better off to nurse my sperms for Colosseum?

[Chongmal]

My mantra is, I am spending my night at whatever club I am in as if this was the last ever FKK experience I will have in my life,

Now, new question, as I will be stopping over in Wurzburg, is FKK Viva or FKK Eden any good? Any experience? They look small and have horrible reviews on Dr Google. Would I be better off to nurse my sperms for Colosseum?I think your mantra is the perfect approach. I just try to caution people because I hate to see them show expecting something different than what they will find. I know one of my favorites from LR left this afternoon for at least two weeks of vacation, maybe more. Another one leaves the 1st to go home for University. On the plus side there is the new gem I discovered this past week and one of my favorites from last year is returning on the 30th. LR still has nice women but many of the ones that were high on my repeat list have changed clubs or have been gone most of August.

Concerning the other two clubs, with your mantra, I would say go for it. I've never been to either but have been to similar clubs; small, limited facilities, only a few ladies. At one with only six ladies I managed a very nice session. After that there wasn't much there for me but everyone in the place was interested in how I happened to be there. Before that club I had very few conversations with other male clients. That experience greatly changed my FKK / Sauna Club experiences.

[McAdonis]

I read your Sao Paulo post and was surprised you were getting CBJ. Also garotas in the smaller clubs are less expensive. They saw you were a gringo newbie and hit you with the gringo tax. LOL $R200, currently $48 usd /41 euro will get a garota to your room in Rio for at least 2 hrs. If she likes you, she'll stay longer. They're not clock watchers. And no upselling. Generally speaking, They like to Fucgk!Common sentiment that I hear. Germany is more transactional, whereas Brazil is so GFE you forget that you are with a WG (I. E. They stay with you all night, don't clock watch, and love sex).

[JennyKk]

Any suggestions? I know GT will be super busy. Still debating whether I should go or not. Any alternatives?

[AnitaRao]

Can anyone recommend a place or FKK where I can find relatively heavier / voluptuous women. Might sound weird but I am kinda into them ex. Karen Fisher. I will be visiting Dusseldorf in 2 weeks, and I would appreciate any help for places around there.

Thank you.

[Mr Ho]

Any suggestions? I know GT will be super busy. Still debating whether I should go or not. Any alternatives?Considering Dutch guys are heading to GT Bruggen on Sunday, how about going in to their land to yin yang as reverse strategy?

I am always doubtful for YY line up, so I never bother to go further from bruggen though.

[XXL]

France is now rabbidly cracking down. Two small ads sites that carried escorts and hook-up ads got closed and are facing prosecution. They are Wannonce and Vivastreet. The two sites also covered Belgium. There might be some cause and effect with the upsurge of bears in border clubs (eg GT).

[Vito Corleone]

Any suggestions? I know GT will be super busy. Still debating whether I should go or not. Any alternatives?Penelope & Mondial. Great atmosphere! Great music & tons of young hot chicks!

[Akibono]

Common sentiment that I hear. Germany is more transactional, whereas Brazil is so GFE you forget that you are with a WG (I. E. They stay with you all night, don't clock watch, and love sex).Any recommendation or advice for a first time visitor that only speaks English?

[Jimmy Boy 99]

Penelope & Mondial. Great atmosphere! Great music & tons of young hot chicks!Penelope is a small club with few girls. Mondial is fun but will be packed with Turks. Samya, Living Room, Oceans, or Acapulco might be better choices.

[Wild Man]

France is now rabbidly cracking down. Two small ads sites that carried escorts and hook-up ads got closed and are facing prosecution. They are Wannonce and Vivastreet. The two sites also covered Belgium. There might be some cause and effect with the upsurge of bears in border clubs (eg GT).There have been protests from the sex worker community in France recently, highlighting the new dangers they are facing with the new insane law. It has been implicated in the death of trans sex worker Vanesa Campos.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45325494

Obviously The French Authorities are not listening!

[Chongmal]

Any recommendation or advice for a first time visitor that only speaks English?I've been going to these clubs for ten years as an English speaker. Normally there are no issues with language. In Germany, Approach the club and women in a respectful manner. Wear decent clothes, some clubs screen on appearance. A lot of women prefer clean shaven men over men with beards and mustaches. Even though beer is included in the price of entry at many clubs, I try to limit my drinking. Some women don't like drunk men and a sober mind helps prevent confusion and misunderstandings, and if there is a misunderstanding being drunk is a disadvantage to you. The police are known to conduct drink driving checks nearby some clubs. Don't tell the girls you are new to the scene.

Other than that, relax and have a good time. If you see a woman you like, make eye contact, smile, wave, don't be afraid to approach. Don't be frustrated if it seems like a lot of women seem to spend excessive amounts of time with certain men. Many of these men go every weekend and have built relationships with a lot of women in the club. When you are finished, let us know how things went.

[SpermBirds]

Clubbing on Saturday:

*Depends of your time schedule totally: if you plan to arrive at the club around 1 pm: option for Golden Time is more than reasonable, the line-up is already pretty active, most girls tend to arrive untill 3 pm anyway, there is no "night-shift". Clubs like Living Room / Samya / Oceans and so on only become rather interesting from 7 pm or something like that (the most interesting girls will arrive later on mostly). If you plan to arrive at the club around 7 pm: Golden Time is not the smartest idea because most clients will want te get busy after dinner, some girls might be pre-booked by some guys, some girls leave around 10 pm and so on, you might miss out on several girls and the place will be rather full. Timing is everything in clubbing, especially on Saturdays IMHO.

*Clubs like Penelope / Mondial are typical almost only Turkish-clients- clubs (at least 80% of the visitors): very fast sessions (10 minutes on average with 80% of the guests), so don't expect service miracles. If you want to get minimal service for minimum money: they are perfect! Apart from a few exceptions (in every club you can find at least a few good girls), most girls will perform pretty poor. If you appreciate extremely loud music, almost no chance to chat with the girls before a session and be surrounded by Galatasaray be-team, go ahead.

First-timer Clubs for guys that only speak English:

*Don't be afraid, most girls working in clubs speak English quite well, so overall you will get around everywhere. If you're a newbie it is quite smart to get started in places where the club keeps an eye on the service level. So the no-upsell-clubs (or at least minimal amount of girls which try to). The well-established clubs like Living Room, Golden Time, Babylon, Parksauna Residenz and so on in NRW will be advantageous. In some rather "Tourist-orientated" clubs where the girls have more "freedom" to try to upsell, it might become more difficult and risky for first-timers. Clubs like this are for instance Dolce Vita, Oceans, Magnum in NRW, Palace / Oase / Mainhattan / Sharks in the Frankfurtarea. I would not recommend because you might end up "upsell" rapidly.

[Jooeey]

Getting exposed to the German FKK's a little late, I was always under the impression before that well Amsterdam is the Sex Capital of World, but just the other day I happened to watch this Video on Youtube and looking at the way Now Window Shoppers Throng the gangway and the gullies of the RLD in Amsterdam, It looks more like a Jurassic Park, or a Zoo that Men are coming to see. Hilarious. Have a look at these picture! Is this some kind of Joke? LOL!

[Member #4581]

I've been going to these clubs for ten years as an English speaker. Normally there are no issues with language. In Germany, Approach the club and women in a respectful manner. Wear decent clothes, some clubs screen on appearance. A lot of women prefer clean shaven men over men with beards and mustaches. Even though beer is included in the price of entry at many clubs, I try to limit my drinking. Some women don't like drunk men and a sober mind helps prevent confusion and misunderstandings, and if there is a misunderstanding being drunk is a disadvantage to you. The police are known to conduct drink driving checks nearby some clubs. Don't tell the girls you are new to the scene.

Other than that, relax and have a good time. If you see a woman you like, make eye contact, smile, wave, don't be afraid to approach. Don't be frustrated if it seems like a lot of women seem to spend excessive amounts of time with certain men. Many of these men go every weekend and have built relationships with a lot of women in the club. When you are finished, let us know how things went.I think he meant Brazil. Akibono knows FKKs.

That said, your advice is still valid for any FKK newbies.

PS: When I check out the websites of any Brazilian club/escort other such pages, bodies/faces are not hugely appealing. I am in alignment with what UH said on this topic. The places that seem to have super knockout girls are perhaps in Kiev and other cities in UKR but the reviews are always warning of major scams.

[Mr Ho]

Getting exposed to the German FKK's a little late, I was always under the impression before that well Amsterdam is the Sex Capital of World, but just the other day I happened to watch this Video on Youtube and looking at the way Now Window Shoppers Throng the gangway and the gullies of the RLD in Amsterdam, It looks more like a Jurassic Park, or a Zoo that Men are coming to see. Hilarious. Have a look at these picture! Is this some kind of Joke? LOL!Germans surely are good at organizing putting things together into efficient places even for brothel industry.

As for Netherland, they did amazing job at coffee shop herbal industry that is way advance than other places in the world, but now USA seems to be catching up and soon Canada.

USA still mildly strict sex industry from public, some other country more than others, but if sexual liberation go as far as it did in Germany in FKK format, men will have more smile on their face everyday and more motivated to work to earn more money LOL.

[Chongmal]

I think he meant Brazil. Akibono knows FKKs.

That said, your advice is still valid for any FKK newbies.

PS: When I check out the websites of any Brazilian club/escort other such pages, bodies/faces are not hugely appealing. I am in alignment with what UH said on this topic. The places that seem to have super knockout girls are perhaps in Kiev and other cities in UKR but the reviews are always warning of major scams.Silly me, I assumed this being the German FKK Clubs. Lounge and Chat thread the question was about German FKK Clubs.

[Java Man]

USA still mildly strict sex industry from public, some other country more than others, but if sexual liberation go as far as it did in Germany in FKK format, men will have more smile on their face everyday and more motivated to work to earn more money LOL.USA Mildly Strict? It's gotten more strict. Recent law has made escort / sex ads illegal, making the website liable and subject to prosecution. Most US escort review sites have closed up shop because of this law. And This site moved its servers to the Netherlands.

[Mr Ho]

USA Mildly Strict? It's gotten more strict. Recent law has made escort / sex ads illegal, making the website liable and subject to prosecution. Most US escort review sites have closed up shop because of this law. And This site moved its servers to the Netherlands.Yet Hollywood movies encourages sex to make American guys horny LOL.

I did not know they are tightening up even more over there. I think this me too movement made things worst and make monger world world worst for mongers.

Well you guys are close to Brazil, so you have safe house reasonably near by as long as you fly.

It is about time to certain extent shooting guns and not able to shoot sperm from penis has relation. It is in part frustration, if you just had great sex with beautiful girls, last thing on men's mind is go violent.

Constant easy access to good sex with young beautiful girls are very important aspect of mens quality of life I think.

[Pistons]

This entire legal / illegal prostitution topic all boils down to discussion techniques.

Take a look here at how Jordan Peterson argues for a more liberal anthropological view than the conservative intial stance of the feminist anchor:

https://youtu.be/nS9W-wlJHPA

[AnitaRao]

Can anyone recommend a place or FKK where I can find relatively heavier / voluptuous women. Might sound weird but I am kinda into them ex. Karen Fisher. I will be visiting Dusseldorf in 2 weeks, and I would appreciate any help for places around there.

Thank you.Hey guys,

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Mr Ho]

Hey guys,

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Thank you.Well I am for model fit slim type or sportive slim body, so I hate heavier girls, so I know thing or two where not to go, which can be helpful to you as reverse opposite taste LOL.

I would say FKK Artemis, there are bit older like around age 30 years old heavier thick body type girls, with some surgeries on them on most part like face and some tattoos in most cases, so I would say Artemis. Artemis usually has strong upselling, but I would say for those heavier girls there should be less upselling.

NRW is not for you as it is younger more teen like line up. Palace not really too. Also oase I only been once, but I did not see many heavy girls in there. Sharks is not really for you too, it is more younger line up.

So I would say Artemis for heavier girls that you like, that I hate LOL.

[Chongmal]

Hey guys,

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Thank you.Freudenhaus Dortmund and XS Bochum had a few on my last visit. They have images of quite a few of them on their websites. Living Room in Kaarst have a couple. One a bit older who has quite a bit of business. Additionally, Amira and Emma are well shaped women who are very attractive. They may be thinner than you are looking for but for sure they have full women's bodies, not spinners. Still at LR Bonnie, Ilene, Isabella also have full women type bodies.

[Chongmal]

Hey guys,

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Thank you.I forgot to mention a Dutch lady at LR going by the name of Gia, if I remember correctly. Bigger is not usually my thing but this lady is attractive to me for some reason.

[Polyamorist]

Can anyone recommend a place or FKK where I can find relatively heavier / voluptuous women. Might sound weird but I am kinda into them ex. Karen Fisher. I will be visiting Dusseldorf in 2 weeks, and I would appreciate any help for places around there.
Hamdulillah Miss Rao. Apart from the very helpful suggestions of Chongmal and Ho, you could also try lobbying the German government to increase the sweets and carbs in school dinners, and then visit in ten years time.

[Sirioja]

Freudenhaus Dortmund and XS Bochum had a few on my last visit. They have images of quite a few of them on their websites. Living Room in Kaarst have a couple. One a bit older who has quite a bit of business. Additionally, Amira and Emma are well shaped women who are very attractive. They may be thinner than you are looking for but for sure they have full women's bodies, not spinners. Still at LR Bonnie, Ilene, Isabella also have full women type bodies.He is asking for heavy fat women, not just curvy, and some with only A cup tits without push up bra. I would advice German reddish hair, white skin, Josi at GT. Also some fat, ex USSR, at Sharks.

[DasBooty]

Can anyone recommend a place or FKK where I can find relatively heavier / voluptuous women. Might sound weird but I am kinda into them ex. Karen Fisher. I will be visiting Dusseldorf in 2 weeks, and I would appreciate any help for places around there.

Thank you.FKK Oceans Dusseldorf had a voluptous light-skinned Dominican on my visit 1 year ago. Excellent service.

Didn't see that body type in LR or DV.

[Mr Ho]

This entire legal / illegal prostitution topic all boils down to discussion techniques.

Take a look here at how Jordan Peterson argues for a more liberal anthropological view than the conservative intial stance of the feminist anchor:

https://youtu.be/nS9W-wlJHPAAnd oddly enough, even the debate over prostitution legality and restriction etc has been going on always, it still is the oldest occupation they say.

Prostitution is essential part of society to cater men's never ending appetite for sex and Germans managed to organized such a efficient platform called FKK, where we can choose and tailor made our each and own sexual desire.

[Java Man]

Constant easy access to good sex with young beautiful girls are very important aspect of mens quality of life I think.You've been away from the US too long. Most females, (Guys too,) here are overweight due to our poor diet. Then there'e the thing about the American Female attitude. It's the reason, I gave up on them in the mid 80's and started traveling internationally. Now, the MeToo movement has made flirting damn near impossible. Just asking a chick out on a date can get you in trouble.

[Java Man]

My thoughts about my first trip to Germany's FKK, RLD etc:

I'm glad I was able to visit. I found enough gorgeous ladies, (to my eye,) in the FKK's. I liked the variety in venues too. My quibble is with the payment model used everywhere here. I've grown accustomed to mongering in the US, Brazil, Thailand and the Philippines. In none of those places does the lady ask what I want. They Know what I want. Usually I'm the one asking if the back door is available.

The €50 upgrade for extras reminds me of the ala carte menus used in Nevada's Brothels outside Las Vegas. They actually have a Menu, listing activities and prices, LOL. Makes it ALL to clinical to me. It takes away form the Fantasy.

The Opti-fuks, with extras, are expensive here for 30 or 60 min. For about the same rate I've had 5 ladies, not for an hour, but overnight in the Philippines. I can have 3, one hour sessions in Thailand, and 4 one hour sessions in Brazil. And I'm getting the GFE with BBBJ, DFK, DATY, MSOG without asking for them. In Brazil and Thailand, there is No extra charge for Anal. Arrangements can also be made to meet up with them away from their bars. In the Philippines and Thailand, you can keep a lady months at a time. In Brazil, they'll latch on to you with no mention of compensation. Yes, they're not Blonde with colored eyes, (can be found naturally occuring in Brazil,) but they are Beauties. And in Brazil and the Philippines, they like to FUCGK!!

In the US, an hour session with an escort can run you, on average, €170 to €300. (We also have them at near €900 per hour!) Anal can also be an extra charge.

I Enjoyed my time in Germany, But unlike my first trip to Rio de Janeiro, there is NO Urgency to return, unfortunately.

[ExpatLover]

My thoughts about my first trip to Germany's FKK, RLD etc:

I'm glad I was able to visit. I found enough gorgeous ladies, (to my eye,) in the FKK's. I liked the variety in venues too. My quibble is with the payment model used everywhere here. I've grown accustomed to mongering in the US, Brazil, Thailand and the Philippines. In none of those places does the lady ask what I want. They Know what I want. Usually I'm the one asking if the back door is available.

The 50 upgrade for extras reminds me of the ala carte menus used in Nevada's Brothels outside Las Vegas. They actually have a Menu, listing activities and prices, LOL. Makes it ALL to clinical to me. It takes away form the Fantasy.

The Opti-fuks, with extras, are expensive here for 30 or 60 min. For about the same rate I've had 5 ladies, not for an hour, but overnight in the Philippines. I can have 3, one hour sessions in Thailand, and 4 one hour sessions in Brazil. And I'm getting the GFE with BBBJ, DFK, DATY, MSOG without asking for them. In Brazil and Thailand, there is No extra charge for Anal. Arrangements can also be made to meet up with them away from their bars. In the Philippines and Thailand, you can keep a lady months at a time. In Brazil, they'll latch on to you with no mention of compensation. Yes, they're not Blonde with colored eyes, (can be found naturally occuring in Brazil,) but they are Beauties. And in Brazil and the Philippines, they like to FUCGK!!

In the US, an hour session with an escort can run you, on average, 170 to 300. (We also have them at near 900 per hour!) Anal can also be an extra charge.

I Enjoyed my time in Germany, But unlike my first trip to Rio de Janeiro, there is NO Urgency to return, unfortunately.Very good summary, no hurry to return, just mechanical sex most of the time.

[Mr Ho]

You've been away from the US too long. Most females, (Guys too,) here are overweight due to our poor diet. Then there'e the thing about the American Female attitude. It's the reason, I gave up on them in the mid 80's and started traveling internationally. Now, the MeToo movement has made flirting damn near impossible. Just asking a chick out on a date can get you in trouble.Yes, it is like so everywhere.

For me, when mongering industry begin to supply stunner level young girls who are real beauty with reasonable cost with easy access and such efficient platform like FKK and few other platforms, something changed inside of me and inside of my brain.

I only seek sexual relation and beauty and youth from women, and I tend to like girls from age 18 till max let say around age 28 years old, preferably I like girls around age 20 years old, so I do not see any point in taking girls out to 300 usd dollars dinner, hotel, trips, gifts, nerve irritating, stress etc. So I changed to mongering world completely.

For the person like me who do not seek companionship or so called connection with girls, but just want sex, beauty and youth, it is better to concentrate on mongering because mongering industry do provide stunner level young beauty with easy access.

When such access was limited, men had to do all these irrational acts spending irrationally doing all sort of things to get sex, but now there is no need if one can think differently and willing to open the door of mongering world with their own thinking, and bit of money.

Whatta wonderful world we now lives in.

[McAdonis]

If you're a newbie it is quite smart to get started in places where the club keeps an eye on the service level. So the no-upsell-clubs (or at least minimal amount of girls which try to). The well-established clubs like Living Room, Golden Time, Babylon, Parksauna Residenz and so on in NRW will be advantageous. In some rather "Tourist-orientated" clubs where the girls have more "freedom" to try to upsell, it might become more difficult and risky for first-timers. Clubs like this are for instance Dolce Vita, Oceans, Magnum in NRW, Palace / Oase / Mainhattan / Sharks in the Frankfurtarea. I would not recommend because you might end up "upsell" rapidly.

I used to give similar recommendations, but after speaking with many tourists, I realized that advice on which clubs one should go to must to be tailored to the individual monger.

Sharks and Oase are popular for a reason. They contain a large number of young, petite, pretty WGs. Clubs you mention like GT, LR, Babylon, and PSR probably have only a few young, petite, pretty WGs each. But the problem is that those WGs might be continuously busy at the smaller clubs. GT especially suffers from extremely poor male-to-female ratios on the weekends. This is frustrating for some mongers who like the relaxed ambiance where many WGs are sitting there. I know some mongers like to be approached. This happens slightly less at GT, because when the male-to-female ratio is 10-to-1, the WG knows that she does not need to work hard to attract clients. So with "new" WGs at GT, usually you must approach them yourself. Alternatively, you can stare at them uncomfortably for ten seconds, until they approach you. But some mongers seem to prefer more subtle flirting.

In general, tourists emphasize optics more, and price vs performance ratio less. Sex tourists sometimes spend over a 1000 EUR just to fly to Germany. They do this because they are dedicated to the hobby. It is the same as foodies who fly to San Sebastian, Spain (second most Michelin star restaurants per capita). In other words, they do not travel all the way to San Sebastian to eat at reasonably priced, tasty, "best value" restaurants. They want to eat at expensive restaurants with the best tasting food possible, even if it is small portions for the money.

[Member #4581]

Tuitions have exploded across the board, McA. Whether you study French Lit or Economics at Yale Undergrad, the tuition is roughly the same. But the life time earnings for Econ has kept up much better than by studying Lit. And despite the fact that tuition costs going up so much, the gap between college degreed to high school grad / dropout has only widened. As someone said, this gap is a big reason resentments also have been on the rise and exploited by scumbag pols.

[Member #4581]

If the fixed cost to cover is just a grand, I think many more Americans would be lining up. Someone said below that a session costs 200 to 300 but I am not sure if the quality is comparable even then. If the per hour differential between US to FKK is a couple of hundred per hour, you could reach breakeven in 5 sesssions. I usually take nearly 20 sessions (not all of them one hour, perhaps they total 14 to 15 hrs) in 5 days, and that more than covers the fixed cost of a grand. That said, the ambiance of FKK is so good and relaxing I would still go even if mongering in US became cheaper on a per session basis.

Personally, my fixed cost comes to nearly $2000 to $2500 when you include airfare, hotels, car rental, food, and club entry fee. I still have not flown a single time to Germany for less than $900 ever, and BadIn is still waiting for that drink he is owed by me. 😀.

[HungryStud101]

In general, tourists emphasize optics more, and price vs performance ratio less. Sex tourists sometimes spend over a 1000 EUR just to fly to Germany. They do this because they are dedicated to the hobby. It is the same as foodies who fly to San Sebastian, Spain (second most Michelin star restaurants per capita). In other words, they do not travel all the way to San Sebastian to eat at reasonably priced, tasty, "best value" restaurants. They want to eat at expensive restaurants with the best tasting food possible, even if it is small portions for the money.And then many of us are hear for business and stay a couple of extra days for the hobby and the FKK experience. Therefore, the ticket is paid for and some other costs can be managed like a hotel or two, and maybe a car.


If the fixed cost to cover is just a grand, I think many more Americans would be lining up. Someone said below that a session costs 200 to 300 but I am not sure if the quality is comparable even then. If the per hour differential between US to FKK is a couple of hundred per hour, you could reach breakeven in 5 sesssions. I usually take nearly 20 sessions (not all of them one hour, perhaps they total 14 to 15 hrs) in 5 days, and that more than covers the fixed cost of a grand. That said, the ambiance of FKK is so good and relaxing I would still go even if mongering in US became cheaper on a per session basis.

Personally, my fixed cost comes to nearly $2000 to $2500 when you include airfare, hotels, car rental, food, and club entry fee. I still have not flown a single time to Germany for less than $900 ever, and BadIn is still waiting for that drink he is owed by me. 😀.I think your 200 $-300 $/ hour sessions in the US are on the low end. I would say 300 $-600 $ is more like it depending on the area. There are also the fixed costs such as P411 and *** fees I used to pay as well as a bat phone. Nuisance really. And then the fear of LE. They seem to leave the indies alone but I always worried that some LE / Politico zealot would make an example of me. For these reasons, I have quit hobbying in the United States Sex Prison.

FKK land is one of those magical places where you don't need a verification system or *** VIP or a bat phone nor do you have to look over your shoulder for LE. I would say that still a third of my sessions are the 50 Euro /30 minute variety. More typically I am spending 100-150 $/ hour. I typically do 3 sessions a day so the 60 Euro entrance fee becomes 20 euro per session. Last time out I made my first two visits to Sharks and I exceeded my daily budget due to all the stimulation. This is a credit to Sharks. I think GTs can be this way. I think their LU is usually strong.

[LastNightFc]

Hi guys,

Just want to start off by saying as a new member I just want to thank everyone who has posted on this forum as it has given me a much more clear picture of what to expect prices, services etc. Now after reading countless posts on a number of threads I've made the decision to go on my first FKK trip this October, I plan to take a trip to FKK Sharks but was wondering what other club would you recommend I check out while I'm in the Frankfurt area I will be touching down on Friday and will check out Sharks first, I'm looking for mainly opt-fucks with fake tits as that's what I'm into which club will I find more WGs like that on a Saturday night? Or shall I just stick to Sharks on my 3 day trip?

Once again just want to say Thanks again for all your advice and reports it's been really appreciated and has helped me make the right decisions in terms of location, club, stay and travel. I will post a report once I am back just can't wait to go now LOL.

[McAdonis]

Tuitions have exploded across the board, McA. Whether you study French Lit or Economics at Yale Undergrad, the tuition is roughly the same. But the life time earnings for Econ has kept up much better than by studying Lit. And despite the fact that tuition costs going up so much, the gap between college degreed to high school grad / dropout has only widened. As someone said, this gap is a big reason resentments also have been on the rise and exploited by scumbag pols.I won't go so far as to say that it makes no financial sense to attend university, but I think a bachelors degree has lost value over time, simply because so many people have them. The first link you provided was published in 2011 but cited a 2002 study on data from 1999. If I read it correctly, it tracked lifetime earnings for individuals during their prime working years, which the study defined as age 25 to 64. If this was 1999 data, then these individuals would have been born in 1935, they would have obtained their bachelors degree in 1957, and their prime working years would have been 1960-1999. In 1957, only about 7-8 percent of Americans earned a bachelors degree. Today that number is 33-34 percent. https://www.statista.com/statistics/184272/educational-attainment-of-college-diploma-or-higher-by-gender/.

More people have bachelors degrees. More people have masters degrees. Did people get smarter? Or was the bar lowered and educational institutions dumbed down? We know that tuitions have risen exponentially. And now they are collecting these tuitions from a higher proportion of the population.

[McAdonis]

I still have not flown a single time to Germany for less than $900 ever, and BadIn is still waiting for that drink he is owed by me. 😀.If you are flexible with your point of entry into Europe, you should be able to find some deals. Some people just fly into what European city is cheapest and then take short hop flights to Frankfurt with Ryanair, Wizzair, Easyjet for under 50 EUR.

As I write this, I just found some deals. Atlanta-Amsterdam or Boston-Amsterdam non-stop, round trip flights in Jan-Feb 2019 for as low as $411 with KLM. San Francisco-Madrid non-stop round trip for $250 on budget airline Level (no meals included, one 23 kg bag included) for Dec-Feb timeframe. Spending a night in Madrid on the front-end and then another night on the back-end does not seem like a bad deal to me. It gives you an extra day to acclimate to timezone as well. In Madrid, there is good food, weather, and some mongering options. Also you can snap some photos of Madrid for cover, so your friends, family, and colleagues don't wonder why you are always going to Frankfurt.

If you are tight on time, do not live near a major USA airport, only do FKK trips during peak summer season, or can only plan trips less than a month in advance, then maybe this won't help.

[Bfsie]

In general, tourists emphasize optics more, and price vs performance ratio less. It depends as I wrote in one of my previous posts:




So if a monger is more interested in WG's optics, he would have better chance to find more WGs with top optics in the clubs with no service requirement imposed by the club managements like most of the tourist clubs, but he would take bigger chance to compromise the WG's service he gets. If a monger is more interested in WG's service, he would have better chance to find more WGs with good serviice in the clubs with strict service requirement imposed by the club managements like LR and some other smaller clubs, but he would take chance not to find the WGs with top optics he likes. For the mongers who are interested in both optics and service and have limited budgets to spend, the best way to do it is to go to the relatively bigger well-known service clubs like LR and find the WGs there with the optics they like.

I would say that vast majority of tourists are looking for combination of both optics and service because most of the tourists we are talking about are not normal tourists and they are mongers, most of whom are relatively experienced. If you ask your friends, neighbors, co-workers or anyone you know, most of them don't go to any sex place when they are on vacation in foreign countries or on business trips abroad.

I think that the situation in the clubs in Frankfurt area is not representative, because the substantial percentage of visiting tourists there are Asians and they are usually unable or very difficult to get any Caucasian girls in the countries they live in, so they usually go for the Caucasian optics.

[Bfsie]

My view on mongering internationally may be different from most readers and posters here. My view is that a monger should mainly monger locally and international mongering should only be supplementary if it is necessary.

The reason is that human being is not like lion or some other animals which can ejaculate more than 10 times a day for several consecutive days and then rest several months without any ejaculation. The discussion about domestic vs international mongering so far misses an important element of mongering, that is the quality of sex, particularly the quality of sex in second, third or even fourth session of the day. Ask yourself how much pleasure you can get from second, third or fourth session of the day compared to first session of the day and ask yourself how much pleasure you can get from second, third or further day compared to first day of your international mongering trip. I don't have to say anything and you know the answer well.

Personally I was never an international monger and never will.

[McAdonis]

I think that the situation in the clubs in Frankfurt area is not representative, because the substantial percentage of visiting tourists there are Asians and they are usually unable or very difficult to get any Caucasian girls in the countries they live in, so they usually go for the Caucasian optics.Agreed that Asians are more numerous in FRA. But even the white tourists from North America are looking for Caucasian optics. If they wanted Asian, Latin, or Black optics they could have traveled to cheaper locales to get paid sex at a fraction of the cost. Tourists travel to remote locations typically want to sample the "local cuisine".


I would say that vast major of tourists are looking for combination of both optics and service because most of the tourists we are talking about are not normal tourists and they are mongers, most of whom are relatively experienced.I didn't say that the tourists are looking for shitty service. Many tourists want the best service in addition to the best optics and are willing to do long rooms, extras, or pay above the hourly rate to obtain this. That is why I used to the term "price-performance ratio". Many tourists that I talk to seem to be on average more pickier when it comes to optics. So they will go to a small club like LR and find nothing or at most one WG that meets their optic criteria, leaving disappointed.

[McAdonis]

And despite the fact that tuition costs going up so much, the gap between college degreed to high school grad / dropout has only widened. As someone said, this gap is a big reason resentments also have been on the rise and exploited by scumbag pols.The current generation of Americans attains higher levels of education than generations past. But the education system has been dumbed down.

"USA Young adults that attain what we consider a high level of post-secondary educationa four-year baccalaureate degreescored the same as the young adults with only a high school education in three of the top-performing countries: Finland, Japan, and the Netherlands. " http://www.ets.org/s/research/30079/educational-attainment.html.

Apparently, most Americans can't answer basic questions, yet they are allowed to vote: "If Americans cannot even answer basic factual questions about our own government, then how in the world will anyone ever be able to persuade them to think critically about the Federal Reserve, the economic crisis or about our corrupt political system?" http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/dumb-as-a-rock-you-will-be-absolutely-amazed-at-the-things-that-u-s-high-school-students-do-not-know.

[Rogue Nation]

Apparently, most Americans can't answer basic questions, yet they are allowed to vote: "If Americans cannot even answer basic factual questions about our own government, then how in the world will anyone ever be able to persuade them to think critically about the Federal Reserve, the economic crisis or about our corrupt political system?" http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/dumb-as-a-rock-you-will-be-absolutely-amazed-at-the-things-that-u-s-high-school-students-do-not-know.Well it results in a President named Donald Trump.

[LastNightFc]

Hi everyone,

Just want to start of by saying Thank you for all your posts and threads on this forum as its helped me a bunch on organising my first FKK trip this October, and I can't thank you guys enough as I have been able to plan my holiday with info on locations, travel and stay. Now to the point I will be touching down on a Friday night and my first club will be FKK Sharks with my hotel being near by. I wanted to know what club would you guys recommend I try for Saturday night with my preference being opt-fucks with fake tits etc basically that pornstar look (don't judge if its my cup of tea not yours) just really looking for a place that has more of these types of WGs then other any info would be highly appreciated and once again Thanks for all the info from this community would not have been to organise this without your help. I will be doing a report once I am back to add my 2 cents.

[Member #4581]

Yes, combining business trip with clubbing is the preferred way. In more ways than one. There is the obvious monetary savings. But also provides a real excuse to be in Europe, which is just as valuable if not more.

I also agree with your numbers and the rest of your comment. I only cited the 200 to 300 number because someone else quoted such a number below and I thought perhaps some others are able to obtain quality mongering at cheaper rates than I am. After all, this is a big country, who knows?! But I have not found it myself personally. Not to mention the LE issue you brought up.


And then many of us are hear for business and stay a couple of extra days for the hobby and the FKK experience. Therefore, the ticket is paid for and some other costs can be managed like a hotel or two, and maybe a car.

I think your 200 $-300 $/ hour sessions in the US are on the low end. I would say 300 $-600 $ is more like it depending on the area. There are also the fixed costs such as P411 and *** fees I used to pay as well as a bat phone. Nuisance really. And then the fear of LE. They seem to leave the indies alone but I always worried that some LE / Politico zealot would make an example of me. For these reasons, I have quit hobbying in the United States Sex Prison.

FKK land is one of those magical places where you don't need a verification system or *** VIP or a bat phone nor do you have to look over your shoulder for LE. I would say that still a third of my sessions are the 50 Euro /30 minute variety. More typically I am spending 100-150 $/ hour. I typically do 3 sessions a day so the 60 Euro entrance fee becomes 20 euro per session. Last time out I made my first two visits to Sharks and I exceeded my daily budget due to all the stimulation. This is a credit to Sharks. I think GTs can be this way. I think their LU is usually strong.

[Member #4581]

Sorry, those snips about US education are just more of America bashing and do not merit much consideration. Our millennials and our gen Z are doing as well as those in any other place. The Japanese have their own issues, most of the young men (hikkomori) have lost their mojo, staying unmarried and without even sex, too addicted to their video games, and working in non permanent jobs. As for Finland, they score well in high school math tests but that doesn't translate into any technology prowess. The one tech company they had ie Nokia mobiles went bust and bought by MsFt. America still has the most vibrant new company formation, still the best Universities, and so many engineers all over the world want to come here to work.


https://www.zdnet.com/article/japans-digital-millennials-are-losing-their-mojo/


https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/news/economy/europe-youth-unemployment-france/index.html


And I don't understand the link between education and voting. Are you saying voting should be denied if they don't have a degreee or pass some test of sufficient literacy and intelligence? Not only does that sound so elitist, it is a sure way of starting a new French Revolution in the 21st century.

Italian young men and women apparently spend endless years in universities because their job scene is so broken and nepotism is rampant. They are probably much more knowledgeable about government and Fed and everything else compared to American young men and women. That hardly made the Italian government a model of envy neither did their economy prosper. The gap between US per capital GDP to most large nations in europe has continuously expanded over time.

https://knoema.com/sijweyg/world-gdp-per-capita-ranking-2017-data-and-charts-forecast

[Member #4581]

I think you may feel differently if you were stuck in US 😀128512;.

In so many places on this planet, legal local mongering is not even an option. How are they supposed to monger locally, when the risk is a fine, a prison sentence, a lashing or getting your hands chopped off?

Mongering is legal, or at least plentiful and more easily within reach in so many neighboring countries of Germany and yet they all go to DE. Is it any wonder Americans and Asians travel from so far? If money and time were not an object, even more would be there.

At least speaking for just myself, I still get as much thrill watching all the bare tits, ass and pussy on parade on the 5th day of my trip as on the first day. And I have a dull ache when I have been away from the clubs for a while and the best memories I have of the last decade are all related to my FKK visits and not about how much money I made or any other useless things.


My view on mongering internationally may be different from most readers and posters here. My view is that a monger should mainly monger locally and international mongering should only be supplementary if it is necessary.

The reason is that human being is not like lion or some other animals which can ejaculate more than 10 times a day for several consecutive days and then rest several months without any ejaculation. The discussion about domestic vs international mongering so far misses an important element of mongering, that is the quality of sex, particularly the quality of sex in second, third or even fourth session of the day. Ask yourself how much pleasure you can get from second, third or fourth session of the day compared to first session of the day and ask yourself how much pleasure you can get from second, third or further day compared to first day of your international mongering trip. I don't have to say anything and you know the answer well.

Personally I was never an international monger and never will.

[Bfsie]

Jnpr30,

Obviously we have different views. I knew the points you wrote before I wrote my post, but I don't want to get into another lengthy discussion here. Let's let the readers decide what to take from our posts.

[Mongerer88]

I think it is useful to add a bit of perspective to your assertions, at least for the uninformed.

The US has a very large prostitution market. Like Hungry said, personally I find I need to spend $400-$600 an hour to get what I have long called "Montreal-type escorts" in the USA. Young, hot, BBBJ ladies that maintain action for the entire hour. But they are out there in the US. They are now generally independent escorts with their own webpages or advertising now on international platforms. A guy agrees to some screening and buys their time and companionship, not sex. I have never seen any law enforcement activity against them since they screen to keep the cops away. Plus they don't fit into the US law enforcement propaganda machine on this subject matter, since they earn well and are in business for themselves. If other guys find this same quality for less, more power to them. But there is a lot of law enforcement activity at the lower price levels in the US, and plenty of skanks, druggies, and grandmas when the price goes too low (by US standards).

https://prostitution.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000095

I consistently read estimates that $14-$20 billion is spent annually on sex work in the US, which is a lot of sex that is purchased without too many public floggings. I certainly don't object to anyone heading to greener pastures overseas, I do plenty of that myself, but I think we should give an accurate description of the US sex market, just like you did with the US education system. Johnny can read and Sally can fuck really good if you pay her enough (and Sally can also read).

My beef with a lot of the guys who just post in the FKK section of ISG is that they seem to imply that all other countries and all other methods of obtaining commercial sex are inferior. Kind of like CrossFit, the exercise program. Other people get exercise, too, they just do it differently.

A lot of US guys have sex workers they see at home, and they still enjoy foreign trips to a wide variety of places where safely obtaining the same services generally offered at $400-600 an hour in the US, is significantly less expensive. Most US guys I converse with go to a great variety of places and enjoy the unique recreational opportunities offered by each. Every locality has its own charms, whether it be beaches, museums, mountains, etc. I know plenty of guys who love to vary their travels between Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Czech Republic, Germany, Mexico, Spain, Portugal, Thailand, United Kingdom, etc, in addition to seeing their favorites in various US cities. They learn how this industry works in each country and enjoy what each country has to offer. I always hear those guys say favorable things about Germany, but I rarely hear them say it is the only source they want for this. I suspect there are plenty of Johns all over Europe who enjoy this activity even if they don't make it to the FKKs.


I think you may feel differently if you were stuck in US 😀128512;.

In so many places on this planet, legal local mongering is not even an option. How are they supposed to monger locally, when the risk is a fine, a prison sentence, a lashing or getting your hands chopped off?

Mongering is legal, or at least plentiful and more easily within reach in so many neighboring countries of Germany and yet they all go to DE. Is it any wonder Americans and Asians travel from so far? If money and time were not an object, even more would be there.

At least speaking for just myself, I still get as much thrill watching all the bare tits, ass and pussy on parade on the 5th day of my trip as on the first day. And I have a dull ache when I have been away from the clubs for a while and the best memories I have of the last decade are all related to my FKK visits and not about how much money I made or any other useless things.

[DonDonato]

What will you choose for few days of fun? Austrian clubs near Italian border or Frankfurt tour? I've wanted to see famous FKK Sharks but recent reports are not that good. Could maybe someone compare it with Wellcum? This is the last FKK I've visited few months ago.

[Mr Ho]

I think it is useful to add a bit of perspective to your assertions, at least for the uninformed.

The US has a very large prostitution market. Like Hungry said, personally I find I need to spend $400-$600 an hour to get what I have long called "Montreal-type escorts" in the USA. Young, hot, BBBJ ladies that maintain action for the entire hour. But they are out there in the US. They are now generally independent escorts with their own webpages or advertising now on international platforms. A guy agrees to some screening and buys their time and companionship, not sex. I have never seen any law enforcement activity against them since they screen to keep the cops away. Plus they don't fit into the US law enforcement propaganda machine on this subject matter, since they earn well and are in business for themselves. If other guys find this same quality for less, more power to them. But there is a lot of law enforcement activity at the lower price levels in the US, and plenty of skanks, druggies, and grandmas when the price goes too low (by US standards)..How is Vegas brothel? I went to Las Vegas, but I did not go to brothels there or in the region.

Are line up as young and beautiful as German FKK at Nevada brothels or?

[Rogue Nation]

What will you choose for few days of fun? Austrian clubs near Italian border or Frankfurt tour? I've wanted to see famous FKK Sharks but recent reports are not that good. Could maybe someone compare it with Wellcum? This is the last FKK I've visited few months ago.I've never been to any Austrian club. Simply for the bad reputation they have around service.

[Pistons]

What will you choose for few days of fun? Austrian clubs near Italian border or Frankfurt tour? I've wanted to see famous FKK Sharks but recent reports are not that good. Could maybe someone compare it with Wellcum? This is the last FKK I've visited few months ago.Hard to say. Wellcum lineup was not as impressive this summer as it was before. I guess it depends on how much upselling you are able to avoid in Frankfurt, and in Frankfurt you have more nearby alternative clubs to choose from too.

[HungryStud101]

What will you choose for few days of fun? Austrian clubs near Italian border or Frankfurt tour? I've wanted to see famous FKK Sharks but recent reports are not that good. Could maybe someone compare it with Wellcum? This is the last FKK I've visited few months ago.People on ISG have their favorite places. Sometimes I wonder if they are writing to dissuade others from visiting their favorite clubs? Or maybe they are being nostalgic. And remember that nostalgia is a dirty liar that insists things were better than they were. I felt this way when I visited Oase last year after a 5-year hiatus. Yes, the prices were higher but I make more and it was still a deal ...and there was no more kissing outside the room ...and I had the worst 3-sum in years...the one hot Russian started upcharging in the room and said "you will get no more sex for 100 Euro"... Wait a second. Oase is a bad example. Oase is no longer my happy place. Avoid this one but go to Sharks. Sharks is great. There is still some customer service and the women are hotter....See. I am doing this too.

This is my biased opinion.

[Mongerer88]

How is Vegas brothel? I went to Las Vegas, but I did not go to brothels there or in the region.

Are line up as young and beautiful as German FKK at Nevada brothels or?Do not even think about going to the legal Nevada brothels.

Just don't. Ridiculously high prices and clinical services. No BBBJ ever, and most of the women are old. The best ladies left these places years ago and went independent.

The way you do things in Vegas is to contact an independent (there are hundreds advertising with their own websites). These ladies do GFE but often cost $400-$700 an hour.

Or use one of a couple of respected agencies, one of which is called 100 Proof. The 100 Proof ladies are $500 an hour, and are fully GFE.

A lot of screening is required for independent escorts and for a respected agencies. It keeps the police out of the picture.

Some guys have success with the ladies who work in the casinos. And some guys have success getting ladies to go home with them after a shift at a strip club. That method, particularly the casino ladies, is less expensive and doesn't require screening. But the service can be hit or miss. Sometimes it is fantastic, sometimes it is a non-GFE, CBJ only experience.

The expensive Vegas independent (and upscale escort agency) girls are young and smoking hot.

No one in their right mind would suggest that is a better deal than Germany, or anywhere else in mainland Europe.

But the question was, if you are a guy in Nevada or California, is it better to see someone nearby for a one-hour very expensive GFE experience and put up with the hassle of screening, or is it worthwhile to make a long trip to a place like Germany to do a lot more fucking for the dollars spent directly on sex.

The answer to that question is different for each person, and as Bfsie pointed out, each of us would have a different value to the marginal enjoyment if each succeeding orgasm. For some guys, one expensive two-cum session with an independent escort close to home in the US might capture most of the desired enjoyment, whereas for another guy a week in Germany fucking three girls a day might be worthwhile to him in spite of the fact that his total cost would be higher, including airfare.

I wasn't trying to say one is better than the other. I was just conveying how the system works in the US. And for someone accustomed to the services at a German FKK, the legal Nevada brothels would be a bitter disappointment.

[LaBambaBoy]

People on ISG have their favorite places. Sometimes I wonder if they are writing to dissuade others from visiting their favorite clubs? Or maybe they are being nostalgic. And remember that nostalgia is a dirty liar that insists things were better than they were. I felt this way when I visited Oase last year after a 5-year hiatus. Yes, the prices were higher but I make more and it was still a deal ...and there was no more kissing outside the room ...and I had the worst 3-sum in years...the one hot Russian started upcharging in the room and said "you will get no more sex for 100 Euro"... Wait a second. Oase is a bad example. Oase is no longer my happy place. Avoid this one but go to Sharks. Sharks is great. There is still some customer service and the women are hotter....See. I am doing this too.

This is my biased opinion.This has been pretty funny to read as someone making his first trip to Frankfurt in a couple weeks. I've see enthusiastic recommendations for and against every FKK in Frankfurt. Leads me to believe none of the majors (Sharks, Oase, Mainhatten) will really disappoint, as everyone's mileage will vary.

[Kosher Kowboy]

How is Vegas brothel? I went to Las Vegas, but I did not go to brothels there or in the region.

Are line up as young and beautiful as German FKK at Nevada brothels or?Don't waste your money nor be fooled by the television documentaries, I did the majority of these outside Vegas about an hour (CR and Sherri's), one a little north of that (Madame Butterfly's) and the ones in Sparks outside Reno and all the ones in Moundhouse where the MLBR is and across the street Sagebrush, Kitty's and a few others. Prices are very high best deals go to the locals who come in once a week cashing their paychecks on Fridays. Expect to pay $250-$400 very low end for a girl for an hour at one of the cheaper ones and $400 on a low end if even upwards to $1000 plus at any of the better ones. The girls will have for you a pre-printed menu on it, they will also come down 50 percent to 75 percent immediately once you do not take that initial bait maybe tad more if you are good. Just to give you an idea at the CR the girl asked me for $1500 ended up paying $600, MLBR I paid $800 or so and at Kittys and Kit Kat I paid $200-$300 or so. This was back sometime ago. Prices have only gone up and the old brothel boards that broke down prices per girl very well first changed content than they were gone. Word is they were bought or ' shut down' by the owners of the brothels collectively.

Quality is mainly garbage, average age without a doubt above 30 some pushing middle 40's. House takes 50 percent of what you pay the girl which certainly doesn't bring prices down and they listen in on the negotiations to make sure the girl pays them 50 percent which is done prior to returning to the room to service you along with a condom that at least when I was there was used for all blowjobs per Nevada law at least at the time. Over regulated, junk and if it were any good I would be flying there on weekends as Vegas flights are very cheap, Reno a tad harder to get in to usually a connection in SF, LA, Salt Lake or Denver is required unless you live out West and most cities have service to Reno / Lake Tahoe.

IMHO the controls, prices, quality etc is one reason why I hope this is never legalized here, we will never have the talent Germany or Europe does, we will be over regulated like NV is and prices will be sky high.

Is it worth it as a novelty to do it once if you are out there? Yes.

Would I get an illegal hooker in Vegas or Reno itself before doing the ranches? 100 percent, make that 110 percent.

Or would I book a another flight to Germany instead?

Just did, figured Baltimore for Thanksgiving was already half way there and WOW Airlines is really cheap, upsells on priority boarding, baggage allowance, seats and food but such is life.

Prostitution is still illegal in both Clark (Vegas) and Henderson (Reno) Counties which is why the brothels are 60 miles outside of Vegas or 10 miles to 30 miles outside Reno.

One tip if you do go in addition to saying you have been there before when asked at minimum tell them you go to another one often. When you ring the buzzer and go in the madam will greet you and seat you in a parlor and the girls will parade in you will hear the clicking of heels getting louder. Ring the buzzer only once very shortly, most newbies will ring it 3 or 4 times and hold it in a dead giveaway to all you are not seasoned at all. Ring it barely once and tell the madam you do not want a LU you want to go to the bar to relax first. In the bar you can actually talk to and interview girls although they will only discuss services and prices in the room so you can really only judge personality.

Ring the buzzer too many times or too long and your price just went up. They will squeeze you hard. You will find cheaper prices in Elko and the towns way out in buttfuck but they cater mainly to truckers passing thru and that quality I can not vouch for only say it is worse from what I was told. Some of the setups vary a tad brothel to brothel but not much.

IMHO do not waste your time with these.

[TeaInTheSun]

What will you choose for few days of fun? Austrian clubs near Italian border or Frankfurt tour? I've wanted to see famous FKK Sharks but recent reports are not that good. Could maybe someone compare it with Wellcum? This is the last FKK I've visited few months ago.Past year I was in Vienna visiting places like GT and was good but in my opinion you can find more diversity, cheapest options and more places to go in Frankfurt. If you just have few days, try Oase and Sharks and according how were your own experiences, you will repeat them or take other options such as World or Mainhatten.

[Gino02]

I happen to read this old post #7576 in the Artemis thread, thanks to Nooky Ninja, that pretty much sums up the art (and social science) of how to get a normal 50/30 min GFE session. I certainly can vouch that even though I sometime forget these advices seeing some optifuck, when I do remember, this art works! What's your experience?

[Kuni042]

After having been addicted to this stuff, we are talking about, for some time. It seems, compared to Germany.

A) either the places are way too expensive: USA, UK, France, Australia, Italy, Japan, Singapore, etc etc.

B) it is way too dangerous for foreigners, esp. If you don't speak the language: Mexico, Caribbean, Brazil, India, Russia, South-Africa, Egypt.

C) the places are simply dead-dead: Finland, Denmark, China.

D) total shitholes: rumania, turkey etc.

So there is only Germany, Netherlands, Czech. And maybe a few rare other places.

What do others think? Anything I left out? I guess Thailand maybe still interesting.


Don't waste your money nor be fooled....

....

IMHO do not waste your time with these.

[Gino02]

After having been addicted to this stuff, we are talking about, for some time. It seems, compared to Germany.

A) either the places are way too expensive: USA, UK, France, Australia, Italy, Japan, Singapore, etc etc.

B) it is way too dangerous for foreigners, esp. If you don't speak the language: Mexico, Caribbean, Brazil, India, Russia, South-Africa, Egypt.

C) the places are simply dead-dead: Finland, Denmark, China.

D) total shitholes: rumania, turkey etc.

So there is only Germany, Netherlands, Czech. And maybe a few rare other places.

What do others think? Anything I left out? I guess Thailand maybe still interesting.Switzerland, Austria, Philippines, Indonesia.

[Mongerer88]

Switzerland, Austria, Philippines, Indonesia.I would add Spain, Canada (particularly Montreal) and Portugal.

[Member #4581]

More people have bachelors degrees. More people have masters degrees. Did people get smarter? Or was the bar lowered and educational institutions dumbed down? We know that tuitions have risen exponentially. And now they are collecting these tuitions from a higher proportion of the population.More people get degrees now because the nature of economy has changed. We now have a predominantly services oriented economy. To succeed, people need education and degrees. Students are aware of it, parents are aware of it, and they save and invest, borrow to give their kids a good chance.

A degree is not a barometer of smartness. No one said so. All it means is that someone persevered and paid tuition and obtained a degree with the hope of a better future.

As for degrees losing value over time, try not having one. When a recession hits, the lesser educated, commodity skilled people lose jobs more quickly.

A hundred years ago, no one had climbed Everest. Now, even a decent club level climber has a good shot and every year dozens and dozens climb. The world's very first marathoner was supposed to have died after a grueling run. Now, in my small office, 2 middle aged women have completed 3 marathons this year alone in sub 3. 5 HR times. Did people naturally become more suited for mountaineering and running? Yes, but only if they trained for it. The fact that more people run marathons and climb Everest does not imply a mile became shorter over time or that Everest came down in height.

[Chongmal]

Switzerland, Austria, Philippines, Indonesia.I will sound like one of the guys who can't see beyond the FKK Sauna Club scene, and that is not true, but I really enjoy the spa concept that goes along with it. The only downside I see is not getting the chance to wake up with the lady in the morning when the urge is highest.

[Mr Ho]

Don't waste your money nor be fooled by the television documentaries, I did the majority of these outside Vegas about an hour (CR and Sherri's), one a little north of that (Madame Butterfly's) and the ones in Sparks outside Reno and all the ones in Moundhouse where the MLBR is and across the street Sagebrush, Kitty's and a few others. Prices are very high best deals go to the locals who come in once a week cashing their paychecks on Fridays. Expect to pay $250-$400 very low end for a girl for an hour at one of the cheaper ones and $400 on a low end if even upwards to $1000 plus at any of the better ones. The girls will have for you a pre-printed menu on it, they will also come down 50 percent to 75 percent immediately once you do not take that initial bait maybe tad more if you are good. Just to give you an idea at the CR the girl asked me for $1500 ended up paying $600, MLBR I paid $800 or so and at Kittys and Kit Kat I paid $200-$300 or so. This was back sometime ago. Prices have only gone up and the old brothel boards that broke down prices per girl very well first changed content than they were gone. Word is they were bought or ' shut down' by the owners of the brothels collectively.

Quality is mainly garbage, average age without a doubt above 30 some pushing middle 40's. House takes 50 percent of what you pay the girl which certainly doesn't bring prices down and they listen in on the negotiations to make sure the girl pays them 50 percent which is done prior to returning to the room to service you along with a condom that at least when I was there was used for all blowjobs per Nevada law at least at the time. Over regulated, junk and if it were any good I would be flying there on weekends as Vegas flights are very cheap, Reno a tad harder to get in to usually a connection in SF, LA, Salt Lake or Denver is required unless you live out West and most cities have service to Reno / Lake Tahoe.

IMHO the controls, prices, quality etc is one reason why I hope this is never legalized here, we will never have the talent Germany or Europe does, we will be over regulated like NV is and prices will be sky high..This is the funny thing, media try to portrait places like Las Vegas, Amsterdam and few other places as mecca of lust, but it really is not, it is Germany LOL! And German speaking part of Europe, it maybe due to their organizational culture and also rebound of societal strictness working in synergy effect LOL!

[Mr Ho]

After having been addicted to this stuff, we are talking about, for some time. It seems, compared to Germany.

A) either the places are way too expensive: USA, UK, France, Australia, Italy, Japan, Singapore, etc etc.

B) it is way too dangerous for foreigners, esp. If you don't speak the language: Mexico, Caribbean, Brazil, India, Russia, South-Africa, Egypt.

C) the places are simply dead-dead: Finland, Denmark, China.

D) total shitholes: rumania, turkey etc.

So there is only Germany, Netherlands, Czech. And maybe a few rare other places.

What do others think? Anything I left out? I guess Thailand maybe still interesting.I thought Brazil, mongering in inside thermas are safe and as good alternative to German FKK both for service, price, safety in thermas and also optic of line up.

Czech? They got good mongering spots as good as German FKK?

[TeaInTheSun]

D) total shitholes: rumania, turkey etc.

Why? Because those are my next stops.

[HungryStud101]

After having been addicted to this stuff, we are talking about, for some time. It seems, compared to Germany.

A) either the places are way too expensive: USA, UK, France, Australia, Italy, Japan, Singapore, etc etc.

B) it is way too dangerous for foreigners, esp. If you don't speak the language: Mexico, Caribbean, Brazil, India, Russia, South-Africa, Egypt.

C) the places are simply dead-dead: Finland, Denmark, China.

D) total shitholes: rumania, turkey etc.

So there is only Germany, Netherlands, Czech. And maybe a few rare other places.

What do others think? Anything I left out? I guess Thailand maybe still interesting.I certainly do not know everything. In fact all I know is that I know nothing. Having said this, Brazil is my favorite hobby destination on the planet. Yes, you have to be a little more careful there than Germany but I love it there. Also, you left out Montreal which is another favorite of mine. I have a few friends that go to Colombia and I know of two guys that have stopped going to Montreal because they love Colombia so much. Yes, Thailand is a wonderland. I've only made one trip but I want to go back. I also had the weekend of my life in BA Argentina. Last year I tried Barcelona and I have two friends that love it as a hobby destination and it is not expensive. So, as great as Germany is, I think there is more out there.

[Mr Ho]

I certainly do not know everything. In fact all I know is that I know nothing. Having said this, Brazil is my favorite hobby destination on the planet. Yes, you have to be a little more careful there than Germany but I love it there. Also, you left out Montreal which is another favorite of mine. I have a few friends that go to Colombia and I know of two guys that have stopped going to Montreal because they love Colombia so much. Yes, Thailand is a wonderland. I've only made one trip but I want to go back. I also had the weekend of my life in BA Argentina. Last year I tried Barcelona and I have two friends that love it as a hobby destination and it is not expensive. So, as great as Germany is, I think there is more out there.Nobody knows everything, but one thing for sure is that you seems to know quite a bit there buddy LOL!

Montreal is as good as Germany for mongering? Many white stunner beauty at Montreal mongering scene? What is the format there.

[HungryStud101]

Nobody knows everything, but one thing for sure is that you seems to know quite a bit there buddy LOL!

Montreal is as good as Germany for mongering? Many white stunner beauty at Montreal mongering scene? What is the format there.Incall and outcall escorts. Good agency girls go for about 200-220 $ CDN so with 1 USD worth about 1. 32 CDN we are talking about 150-165 $ USD. Top Indies are 300-400 CDN.

Since I live in North America, discovering Montreal changed my life. I discovered the green forum in 2007 and I called Devilish the first day and they sent a 20 year old beauty that rocked my world. The next day I called Xxxtase and they sent me over the girl that used to be the model for their banner. The first thing that both petite Quebecois girls said to me when they entered the room was "let's order some wine. " I thought this is odd. Every time I did this in the US it was like a Mexican Standoff. Prove your not a cop don't touch my drink it could be a Mickey.

It was during this trip I became a Hobbyist. Soon I was looking for excuses to get back there for business or pleasure. I became an Eleganza fan and I saw several of John's girls. I couldn't believe that me. Several years past my prime. Was sleeping with hard bodies 18-26 years and the girls all seemed to be trying to outdo the last.

Not long after Eleganza disappeared, GoodGirls came on the scene and they started to throw parties. Parties where I was able to meet girls and I was even able to session with the during the party. I went to several parties during this phase and I would plan 3-4 day trips on party weekends. I am still working off the TDL.

Now James at Euphoria has probably the best girls. There are several other good agencies Mike's Mansion etc. XO is very popular. They are run by former hobbyists.

Unicorn Healers provides an awesome service and they do not do GFE. They only do kinky fantasies. Hanna gave me the most incredible fantasy session ever and her agency, Unicorns has taken over the parties. There was a girl named Jennifer who was amazing but she retired. I have met several indies and I try to get one in every trip. I made a lot of friends and I have a massive TDL which is still relevant.

I think the passion is on par with Brazil and it is nice to fuck petite Quebecois women. But you can get whatever you want there.

It is a different scene than the FKK scene for sure. You have to rely on the word of the booker / agency owner if you know him or her and You are limited to reviews and a few headless photos on a web site to make your decisions which is nowhere near as good. I prefer the FKK clubs and the Clinicas in Brazil where they walk out the line-up. However, the parties were a great period. The downside of Montreal is the waiting in your room for the knock on your door. You can feel like a prisoner. However, once she gets there you can typically count on a good 45 minutes, no-rush session followed by a shower with the girl you just had sex with.

It has been over a year since I have been back there. I had to cancel two trips. I will get back and enjoy this scene. The restaurants are great. The streets are safe. The girls are young and hot and my experience is that they perform. Beats the hell out of the USA.

[Mr Ho]

Incall and outcall escorts. Good agency girls go for about 200-220 $ CDN so with 1 USD worth about 1. 32 CDN we are talking about 150-165 $ USD. Top Indies are 300-400 CDN.

Since I live in North America, discovering Montreal changed my life. I discovered the green forum in 2007 and I called Devilish the first day and they sent a 20 year old beauty that rocked my world. The next day I called Xxxtase and they sent me over the girl that used to be the model for their banner. The first thing that both petite Quebecois girls said to me when they entered the room was "let's order some wine. " I thought this is odd. Every time I did this in the US it was like a Mexican Standoff. Prove your not a cop don't touch my drink it could be a Mickey.

It was during this trip I became a Hobbyist. Soon I was looking for excuses to get back there for business or pleasure. I became an Eleganza fan and I saw several of John's girls. I couldn't believe that me. Several years past my prime. Was sleeping with hard bodies 18-26 years and the girls all seemed to be trying to outdo the last.

Not long after Eleganza disappeared, GoodGirls came on the scene and they started to throw parties. Parties where I was able to meet girls and I was even able to session with the during the party. I went to several parties during this phase and I would plan 3-4 day trips on party weekends. I am still working off the TDL.

Now James at Euphoria has probably the best girls. There are several other good agencies Mike's Mansion etc. XO is very popular. They are run by former hobbyists..I kind of enjoy the waiting in hotel room for the knock on the door, it excite me, but I do feel you on this one because part of me is excited, but other part is bit worry how the girl is going to look like and how late she may or may not be etc.

So FKK and clinicas in Brazil you mean therma in Brazil? Are better right?

I personally like to be able to see what I am going to fuck optically so I am at least optically satisfied. We can always send back girls we do not want on escort scene, but when you penis is about to explode in your pant, it is hard decision to make not to fuck, so I also prefer the set up like German FKK where we can see what we going to fuck and even able to talk to her a bit.

Brazilian clinicas or thermas or whatever it is called, I have not been yet, but I will go there one day, as for now, my focus is on Germany while it last and I hope it will last for all my life time without too much radical change in format and regulations.

[Bfsie]

The answer to that question is different for each person, and as Bfsie pointed out, each of us would have a different value to the marginal enjoyment if each succeeding orgasm. For some guys, one expensive two-cum session with an independent escort close to home in the US might capture most of the desired enjoyment, whereas for another guy a week in Germany fucking three girls a day might be worthwhile to him in spite of the fact that his total cost would be higher, including airfare.

Well said and agreed.

I would add that most of real mongers (sex addicts) mainly monger locally and a small percentage of them (like some of the ISG posters and readers) sometimes also monger abroad as a side show. The non-local ISG posters and readers are nowhere near in the mainstream of mongering world if they don't monger locally and THEY ARE HOBBYISTS, NOT REAL SEX ADDICTS. The real sex addicts like me mainly monger locally.

[Kuni042]

If you pay enough. And get an expensive escort, you will be fine.


Why? Because those are my next stops.

[Kuni042]

Czech has some good brotherls (called market. Which is similar to Pascha in Cologne. Just the ladies are more upscale. Some stunners imo) -


I thought Brazil, mongering in inside thermas are safe and as good alternative to German FKK both for service, price, safety in thermas and also optic of line up.

Czech? They got good mongering spots as good as German FKK?.

[Bfsie]

Well said and agreed.

I would add that most of real mongers (sex addicts) mainly monger locally and a small percentage of them (like some of the ISG posters and readers) sometimes also monger abroad as a side show. The non-local ISG posters and readers are nowhere near in the mainstream of mongering world if they don't monger locally and THEY ARE HOBBYISTS, NOT REAL SEX ADDICTS. The real sex addicts like me mainly monger locally.I should clarify that what I meant "locally" means a monger spends no night outside his home during his mongering time. I. E. He always sleeps at home. For example, I would say a monger from Netherlands or Belgium, who gets home after FKK clubing, is a local of German FKK club scene.

[Mr Ho]

Czech has some good brotherls (called market. Which is similar to Pascha in Cologne. Just the ladies are more upscale. Some stunners imo).Really? Wow I did not know that, I miss Czech girl in German FKK, the last stunner level Czech girl I fucked was Marketa from Artemis back in 2014 ish I saw fucked her last, I guess she is long gone retired now.

Where is the best market format brothel in Prague or Czech because I tried googling it and only thing came up was market that sells foods LOL I need the ones that sells beautiful young girls sex, I guess google AI is not as smart to figure that one out LOL.

[Sirioja]

Czech has some good brotherls (called market. Which is similar to Pascha in Cologne. Just the ladies are more upscale. Some stunners imo).Praha. Cz is a interesting city to visit, but not anymore for sex in clubs or privates, more expensive and lower services than in Germany. I don t think Budapest is anymore interesting for pornstars, some tour in Paris but they are not the best to make love in bed, when porn is just so fake, harder not entering deep inside.

I m not attracted by Asian girls, I just would like to try a Japanese Geisha, I m not attracted by black or latina girls, but I love Italian or Romanian brunette beauties, so my ranking is:

Number 1 is Switzerland when You enjoy to make love in bed. In Switzerland, can find great GF. Highest standards in FKK land.

Number 2 is Germany, YY NL but not low level for girls 6 ens, Wellcum. At, Andiamo. At and Marina in Slovenia. There can sometimes find great girls, just have to be able to make them will to be good with You.

On this week end, once more, I discovered a new girl, really not attractive behavior for me in the club, but no public exhibition, and she was the only attractive look, so I went to chat to her, when I took her hand and talked about her look, she changed of behavior, later she asked what I like in room, I just asked about what I need to enjoy, she looked at me and answered she was OK to try, all was fluent in room, no question about time, extras. 300 for 3 1 hour rooms on this week end for this really enjoyable discovery, but I waited for long time and worked hard to find this new one in Germany, 25 yo Romanian for standard German rate, without upselling. Some Romanians are really good for love in bed and very honest about money.

[MJojo]

Guys,

I am visiting Bochum for short stay and would be staying near to Bermuda Triangle.

Any good places where I can visit? Like Pasha from Cologne?

What is the procedure there? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Kosher Kowboy]

The answer to that question is different for each person, and as Bfsie pointed out, each of us would have a different value to the marginal enjoyment if each succeeding orgasm. For some guys, one expensive two-cum session with an independent escort close to home in the US might capture most of the desired enjoyment, whereas for another guy a week in Germany fucking three girls a day might be worthwhile to him in spite of the fact that his total cost would be higher, including airfare.
.M88, nice to see you over here, you have always provided great insight and info on the ISG and other places. A guy once told me when I started going to Germany ' If an American is not in Germany fucking he is either stupid or broke' and the guy who said that is a very well respected member and contributor to the German forums and dumps quite a bit of money (much more than I) in to these girls pockets. I would edit his statement to read ' Germany and / or Spain' as Spain affords me the chance to fuck any nationality in the world w / o having to venture to that country. That piso Farrell X I think it was in BCN had super hot Brazilians, numerous places in Spanish cities have very hot Asian girls and tons of South Americans as well; anything in variety is in Spain so I personally have no desire to hit some regions of the world for mongering as I can get it in Spain and the more I research Germany, talk to guys that live there and so on I am seeing many nationalities also represented well in Germany and tons of fun to be had outside the FKK clubs in other venues and places. The problem is as you mentioned overhead and one has to balance at what point of their trip do they reach sexually diminishing returns popping 3 girls a day and for me come day 4-5 I start to wear down and many say the airline ticket is the big cost and I disagree. The airline ticket is only $1 K give or take a few hundred maybe. The real cost is your club costs, entries, girls, transport and hotels. Go to Germany 12 X in a year and pay $12 K in airfare is not a big deal. However the 84 days assuming you go for a week each trip will add up and dwarf the cost of the airline. In fact, RT Air from ATX here on Condor can be had for $279 each way if purchased in advance. JFK-FRA in Delta Comfort+ is $880-$970 year round! In two days alone at an FKK club I could eat 300 ($360) Euros a day thus dwarfing the airline costs. Add in accumulated miles and medallions on airlines the costs go down and upgrades in seats follows within 6-12 months when they start to add up. I have 4 trips for 5-7 days each booked the rest of this 2018 year, airline tickets were maybe $4 K-$4. 5 K total but the 25 days or so in the clubs is the real cost incurred by the monger. IMO. I also think between smaller FKK Clubs, the indies I am now finding, brothels and walk-in places and now incredible reports out of the RLDs that a sex addict can actually do long extended trips to Germany by balancing out the many options as not everyday needs to be a 200-400 Euro ' Big 5 ' club day. Two weeks is very doable with every fourth day off and the 3 days of action mixed up between the above options. No matter how I slice the pie the worst slices are reserved for the Americans who stay behind and get hosed.

M88, you are correct that many of us think the German way is the best way yet other countries offer great opportunity. I like to cum and be done but if I actually wanted a girl to hang around than Thailand or Colombia, MX etc would be great for the TLN option but not my style and in Spain I can run to the many pisos or brothels or go see an indy but than what? I am bored all day and art museums and tours bores the living shit out of me. On the flip side, lining up empty water bottles in the back part of Day care and using apples and oranges as bowling balls to create a bowling alley (Amira killed me, she is such a fun sweet girl in and out of the room) or stacking cigarette packs up in Pyramid form to see who can flick hairbands / rubber bands and knock down more packs is much more fun than a tour of the Prado Museum!

To each their own :D


Well said and agreed.

I would add that most of real mongers (sex addicts) mainly monger locally and a small percentage of them (like some of the ISG posters and readers) sometimes also monger abroad as a side show. The non-local ISG posters and readers are nowhere near in the mainstream of mongering world if they don't monger locally and THEY ARE HOBBYISTS, NOT REAL SEX ADDICTS. The real sex addicts like me mainly monger locally.Good points and agree to some extent but I am going to guess you are not local to the United States probably somewhere in Europe where you can hop a flight to Germany for a bag of peanuts and a can of soda pop if not drive or train in. I would call the majority of guys in the USA who do this and do not travel HOBBYISTS as well, idiots might be a better word and / or clueless as to what exists outside the USA. At least in TX the real mongers get out, the hobbyists stay behind and eat garbage and overpay for trash and worse think they are doing it right LOL.

For 30 years I have mongered between the USA and abroad and sometimes the USA markets are better than other years so there have been times I fucked 2-4 times a week in TX and on weekends when the border towns were great did MX and I also hit Amsterdam, Central America, Canada (Windsor, Toronto and Montreal) , the Islands etc. Today in the modern era the selection in the USA is at an all time low and prices off the wall which IMHO justify an all out assault on the airports to get the fuck out of this shithole sex prison and if one doesn't shame on them. Idiots!

Per your definition I am nothing more than a hobbyist and not a sex addict as I have abandoned the white trash tutes of the USA for pretty much all travel now and do not want to play in my home market. Your statement I think is partly true as the real player plays at home and abroad but if your'e home is in the USA easier said than done which is why I am guessing you are from abroad (and if so much luckier than myself!) I am back in full travel mode but if I were fortunate to live in Europe than I would perhaps be labeled a monger / sex addict in your book as I could forever abandon the USA girls and fuck in Germany, Spain, Holland, Russia or wherever I wanted. I simply have to pay the price now for being born in this shithole country called the 'Conservative, Divided and Over regulated States of America' but when I turn 59 and a half in ten years my version of the Shawshank Redemption will be played out and I will come up clean on the other side of the Ocean.

However, we all come from all over the world many born in Germany perhaps or nearby but also from far away points such as the Americas and the Far East. I do not think we should label each other mongers or hobbyists, hardcore or not harcore etc. As at the end of the day we are all in the same boat. We all head to Germany for the most part as we have all discovered it beats our homelands and none of us are idiots in fact we are all intelligent for making the choice to bail our own countries, although I sometimes out of physical needs will eat $100 here and just dump a load to take some stress away and simply book many trips spaced out in 3-5 week intervals purchased in advance for minimizing overhead.

The only idiots (hobbyists) are the guys who sit back in the USA and do not travel or get out, shame on them, sit in prison and get flogged daily by loser girls yet they think they are mongers and hardcore.

[Bfsie]

Kosher Kowboy,

Sorry, I was in hurry when I wrote my previous post, so it lost its purpose. My intended purpose of my previous post was to say that vast majority (if not most) of mongers mainly monger locally instead of internationally, so I concluded with my previous post. I still stand by that.

Your situation may be quite unique and you have abundant financial resource to do what you have been doing from what I read your posts, Not average John can do what you do. You should realize that. My post is in general term, of course, there are exceptions like you.

[Sirioja]

I should clarify that what I meant "locally" means a monger spends no night outside his home during his mongering time. I. E. He always sleeps at home. For example, I would say a monger from Netherlands or Belgium, who gets home after FKK clubing, is a local of German FKK club scene.What about sleeping in clubs until 4/5 am, or outside like a tramp? No, I don t want to be a addicted local regular, FKK land is just a enjoyable game, like climbing mountains or free riding downhill. Pleasures make life and have no rate. No addiction because no pain nor frustration not being able to control, when intense sports make You increase oxygen in your blood, then this feeling become a real drug, because you feel so powerful to perform.

[Kosher Kowboy]

Kosher Kowboy,

Sorry, I was in hurry when I wrote my post, so it lost its purpose. My intended purpose of my previous post was to say that vast majority (if not most) of mongers mainly monger locally instead of internationally, so I concluded my previous post. I still stand by that.

Your situation may be quite unique and you have abundant financial resource to do what you have been doing from what I read your posts, Not average John can do what you do. You should realize that. My post is in general term, of course, there are exceptions like you.I would agree with you that most do play in their home markets; most of us on here are in a better boat than most in our own locales and can afford to up our game and enjoy the real stuff. If I lived in a good market I might be less inclined to hit Germany or with less frequency. Spain being an example, I have noticed and I think MacAdonis once pointed out how few Spaniards he has met over time, same here. They have a good market.

I do not know if I have abundant resources but I have enough to do what I want now as I have this country called Mexico to the south to lean on as well as some emerging markets (financially and for retirement) in Central and South America and in the event I spend all my money I can just move there with a fistful of pesos and retire happily on some beach and use their classified ads to get cheap pussy and there is plenty.

However I really do think there exists a bunch of idiots in the USA who do not realize how you do not have to pay $250-$1000 an hour for a girl here and if you just time your flights in advance and use WOW or Iceland Air or get yourself to a coastal HUB or O'Hare / DFW you really can fly abroad and enjoy the best of the best.

Thanks for clarifying and happy next journey wherever you may end up :D

[Bfsie]

However I really do think there exists a bunch of idiots in the USA who do not realize how you do not have to pay $250-$1000 an hour for a girl here and if you just time your flights in advance and use WOW or Iceland Air or get yourself to a coastal HUB or O'Hare / DFW you really can fly abroad and enjoy the best of the best. How about time, they usually don't have the time to do those. Your situation is really unique and you have the money and time. Lucky guy LOL.

[Kosher Kowboy]

How about time, they usually don't have the time to do those. Your situation is really unique and you have the money and time. Lucky guy LOL.True but many of these same guys I refer to as idiots (maybe was harsh) go off to Vegas for long weekends or other short hops than complain about the girls and prices. Given the departing flights from North America usually leave in the evenings between 5-9 PM local times and the flights land in Germany 8-11 AM we can easily do 3 day trips, especially on holiday weekends where Fri or Mon is a holiday. We essentially fly thru the night and sleep and upon arrival there is no issue our body clocks are ready for Germany's morning, than we head back early in the AM from DE on departure day and arrive in the evening here yet the same day we took off. Three to Four day jumps are very manageable if you can line up a cheap flight and hotel.

I think the ones with good reasons as to no time are ones who might be tied down in marriages or perhaps single fathers maybe small business owners with few or no employees to hold down the fort; other than that if one times it right with weekends, follows the discount fares and finds hotel deals it is quite easy. It does help to have a list of the Messe dates to avoid them. Logging on to Delta, United and American after midnight on weeknights is also a good tactic to look for flights as that is often when they have fire sales and often by the time the coffee pots start brewing at 6-7 AM the deals have been snagged.

But you are right, I am lucky I guess and maybe my point is some guys don't know just how easy it is to plan and do an affordable getaway.

Some of our message boards (I have been on them since 1992) have survived and some underground (names left off) and I suspect more will return and I read the posts on there for close to 26 years now and I can't tell you how stupid some of the questions are such as ' Are there still girls in Thailand or Costa Rica?' so I find the ' monger intelligence' of Americans as a whole to be subpar to that of the Europeans by light years. Maybe I have just grown accustomed to the guys on this board and the FKK section in general, as a whole I find the posts, reviews and comments here to be highly intelligent relative to boards back home. I also learn so much from observing locals over there or simply talking to them and getting pointers on red couches for 5 minutes than I would learn reading posts here in the USA over 5 years.

The above are simply my observations, but I stick to them. I also tend to agree with you on your posts and comments and yes, perhaps I should consider I have no time constraints either, vasectomies help too both for time and money. $700 ' clip clip and a bag of ice on your balls' probably saves $700,000 over time :D

[HungryStud101]

Well said and agreed.

I would add that most of real mongers (sex addicts) mainly monger locally and a small percentage of them (like some of the ISG posters and readers) sometimes also monger abroad as a side show. The non-local ISG posters and readers are nowhere near in the mainstream of mongering world if they don't monger locally and THEY ARE HOBBYISTS, NOT REAL SEX ADDICTS. The real sex addicts like me mainly monger locally.Wooooosh! That settles it. I am not a sex addict after all. Thank you Dr. Phil. I feel a lot better now. Very entertaining and humorous read.

[McAdonis]

A degree is not a barometer of smartness. No one said so. All it means is that someone persevered and paid tuition and obtained a degree with the hope of a better future.A lot of the commentary on American higher education says students aren't persevering at all. "More than a quarter of college presidents think their students are graded too leniently. Since the early 1990's, colleges have been reinventing themselves using a business model, transforming themselves into Diplomas Inc. , run by a new breed of college administrator more interested in retaining customers than educating students". https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/study-after-study-has-college-gotten-too-easy/2011/05/16/AFBTtB5G_blog.html?utm_term=.b76c0725c062.

Standards have eroded, so I don't think your marathon analogy applies, unless one is given credit for completing a marathon even if they take a shuttle bus from mile mile two to twenty-five. Passing students means continued enrollment. Continued enrollments means the continued collection of tuition fees. Parents put pressure on administrators. Administrators put pressure on professors. Students get passing grades, even if they don't complete the assignments or learn the course material.

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/top_performers/2015/04/why_have_american_education_standards_collapsed.html

https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/08/29/the-dumbing-down-of-college-curriculums/

https://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr1997/TROUT-ST.html

[Mr Ho]

What about sleeping in clubs until 4/5 am, or outside like a tramp? No, I don t want to be a addicted local regular, FKK land is just a enjoyable game, like climbing mountains or free riding downhill. Pleasures make life and have no rate. No addiction because no pain nor frustration not being able to control, when intense sports make You increase oxygen in your blood, then this feeling become a real drug, because you feel so powerful to perform.I feel so powerful to perform when FKK sharky girls try to upsell me and I decide to just go for 30 min 50 euro session only and just do her doggy style hardcore LOL!

[Mr Ho]

I would agree with you that most do play in their home markets; most of us on here are in a better boat than most in our own locales and can afford to up our game and enjoy the real stuff. If I lived in a good market I might be less inclined to hit Germany or with less frequency. Spain being an example, I have noticed and I think MacAdonis once pointed out how few Spaniards he has met over time, same here. They have a good market.

I do not know if I have abundant resources but I have enough to do what I want now as I have this country called Mexico to the south to lean on as well as some emerging markets (financially and for retirement) in Central and South America and in the event I spend all my money I can just move there with a fistful of pesos and retire happily on some beach and use their classified ads to get cheap pussy and there is plenty.Most men not only just invest such amount for prostitutes who are not worthy optically and service, but invest millions of USD to girlfriends or wife or wives and end up messing up their life in every way possible and still do not get there are alternative life choices that are better at least in lust sexual sector of life.

It is too bad we have to fly, but it is reasonable. I fly from Japan and it cost me about 1100 USD to 1300 USD about for 5 days hotels and flight included. For me it is reasonable cost of transportation fee plus I spend about 500 euro per day in club depending on line up, some day it is less some day can be more if stunners are found, which are rare nowadays for my taste.

It is too bad we do not have FKK format all over the world, but only in limited places, but at least it is there and we managed to find out about it.

I think in 21st century, in lust and sexual sector of life, mongering is far better than going after normal girls. And it is far better to do that in German speaking part of Europe where FKK format is.

There are few places in world where we can monger, but as far as I experienced, German FKK is the best format there is.

[Member #4581]

KK,

The math works like below for me. You may have a different math and others may have other different ways of doing this. No right or wrong way.

The fixed costs for me are airfare (1000), hotels (600), car rental + insurance (150-200), food (150), misc (50), transportation to my local airport (60). Numbers can change over time obviously.

That is fixed cost 1, which totals 2000-2100.

I deliberately left out the dollar or Euro sign, that can make some difference also.

Then, fixed cost 2 which is the club entry fee. Say I stay 5 days, which is my max per trip (I have done even just 3 days as well). That totals another 300 (a bit less if judiciously using discount days or multi packs).

Then the sessions. In 5 days, I can do 20 sessions, perhaps over 16-18 hours, and with 15 girls. Some sessions last 30 min, some more than hour.

Cost 1600. If extras included, then another hundred or two (I don't take many of those).

Net net, we are looking at 4 grand. Works to 200 per session, 250 per hour of sex. Roughly the same per girl.

The goal is to cut the fixed cost relative to actual sessioning cost. For a local like HB or BFsie, the only fixed cost is the 60 entry fee. If they do 4 sessions per day as in the above calculation, their average per hour cost comes to 115. With cheap tickets, multi packs, they can bring it down even more.

How can I extend the fixed cost leverage? More sessions obviously. If instead of 16 hours of sex if I can partake 32 hours of sex, my cost per session would go down to 125, not far from the local's cost.

But how can I do 32 hours of sex? More sessions per day -- instead of 4 per day, do 8. If I am a super man or the famous sikh that Syzy keeps talking about, its a cinch. The reality Me? Only in my dreams.

Another way -- stay more days. This is what the truly big boys like you and Badin do. Instead of 5 days, stay 10 days. However, there will be an offsetting increase in hotel and food expenses. Only the airfare is levered. Still, that is something.

If I can do a session at 250 per hour in the US, then it is somewhat of a break-even scenario from my pov. However, the calculus is totally different: I do the 20 sessions in DE only because I am there, and HAVE to do that many to get some value for my fixed cost (BFSie's point). Secondly, the quality of girls and the ambiance. This last one, I think is priceless. I am not a wham bam thank you maam dude, and I get almost as much pleasure and enjoyment out of watching all the pussy galore on display, in a very relaxing environment (sometimes after I come back home, in my moments of nostalgia, I even miss the smoky atmosphere, and I am a non smoker! Banging 16 girls separately in sterile hotel rooms or other places is NOT even close to banging hot ROm chicks on my beloved red couches of sharks with with other perverts watching. I still need to figure how to bring that variable into the math here.

PS: The math would totally suck if I computed dollar per pop. That price has been steadily going up, as my own output has gotten more and more pathetic. Then again, the German old dudes just come in and fuck a girl only every 5th or 6th visit per RN, so my productivity may still be reasonably OK.

[Neurosynth]

A degree is not a barometer of smartness. No one said so. All it means is that someone persevered and paid tuition and obtained a degree with the hope of a better future.
I disagree with this somewhat. First, which institution, and sometimes which program, is an important factor. On the high end just getting accepted at all is meaningful. Second, perseverance isn't the same as intelligence, but it is a virtue that employers will appreciate. Getting the degree won't raise the kind of suspicions that dropping out will.

And there are people who, quite frankly, are not intelligent enough to complete college, again making adjustments for the ranking of the institution. Put another way, do you really think that if you gave an IQ test to 100 random Harvard grads and 100 random people without college degrees, that you would get the same mean scores?

Edit: this is interesting...

http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iq.htm

[Neurosynth]

Guys,

I am visiting Bochum for short stay and would be staying near to Bermuda Triangle.

Any good places where I can visit? Like Pasha from Cologne?

What is the procedure there? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.The Bochum RLD is pretty good, and downright charming at night with colorful lighting.

[Neurosynth]

Passing students means continued enrollment. Continued enrollments means the continued collection of tuition fees. Parents put pressure on administrators. Administrators put pressure on professors. Students get passing grades, even if they don't complete the assignments or learn the course material.This is not the primary driver of grade inflation. Instructors don't think to themselves "Oh I better give Johnny an A because that will keep enrollment up and I can keep my job. ".

The main driver is that students fill out evaluation forms at the end of the semester, and it's simply a fact that instructors who are hard graders get lower evaluations. And those evaluation numbers have an influence, often a very strong influence, on the faculty member's yearly evaluation and pay increase. I. e. Instructors have a quick and direct monetary incentive to give high grades. This has both a conscious and subconscious impact.

[Kosher Kowboy]

KK,
The math works like below for me. You may have a different math and others may have other different ways of doing this. No right or wrong way.

Another way -- stay more days. This is what the truly big boys like you and Badin do. Instead of 5 days, stay 10 days. However, there will be an offsetting increase in hotel and food expenses. Only the airfare is levered. Still, that is something.
My fixed costs are probably roughly the same. In US Dollars my flights range from as low as $750 to $1500 and $1150 probably a good average number. I would save $200 on that if I sat in coach but I simply can't for long hauls so pay the premium.

My hotel is 100 E a night, includes a great breakfast which comes in handy if not going to a club that serves food.

6 nights is probably my usual stay, as few as four and sometimes 7. 10 is too long for me and diminishing returns hit and unless I can find cheaper days or off days I find the best bang for the buck is to take 4-5-6 day trips and live to fight another day. A normal 6 day week for me would be:

3 Gypsies days: Daily costs: 10 e on the Creampie Express, 30 e entry, 3-5 Gypsies usual 3 120 e-200 e, total cost of a Day at Day Care generously allowing for 2 doubles and 1 singles session including transportation is 240 e on a high end, 160 e on a low end if poke only 3 Gypsies per day. Average it out at 200 E and add in the 100 e for hotel and food usually 20 E a day tops, 320 Euros a day.

2 Mainhatten: Daily costs. 5 e Tram, 45 e early entry, 100 X3 on girls, 350 E for the day plus the hotel is 450 E but not food costs, eat all at the club.

1 Sharks / Oase: Daily costs. 50 E trains / taxis; 50 e early entry at Oase or on Discount Sharks Days, (1) 50 girl and probably (2) 100 girls. 350 e plus the 100 e hotel. 450 E, same as Mainhatten roughly.

Day Care allows me to bring the expenditures down as I try to keep total spent as low as possible to apply to the next trip and keep going more often so I am cheap. 3 Gypsy days are 320 X3 = 960 Euros includes hotel and food too.

Non Day Care Days: 450 in the case of 3 days in mainstream clubs, that is 1350 Euros added to the 960 Euros for the 3 Gypsy Days is 2,310 Euros call it 2,300 or roughly $2,700 or so. Those numbers divided by the 6 days comes out to 383.33 Euros a day all included or in dollars about 450 bucks.

So it costs me roughly 450 bucks a day to stay in Germany on average and with the airfare comes out to roughly $4,000-$4,200 for a 6 night stay.

I think that is roughly what you had for 5 days but variables in our airfares exist and you also do more sessions and me doing Gypsies skews the numbers too, all easily able to account for one extra day in my budget since the air and hotel is pretty much the same and your cars etc costs I equalize it out on trains and cabs.

The other equation I try to use is at what point do I say ' I am kaput' and anything spent is a waste. For me seems to be day 4 or 5 but I can make 6. I calculated my daily cost to be 450 bucks w hotel included. $450 X 3 days is greater than the average cost of my round trip airfares. So IMO 2-3 days after I reach burnout I am burning up another airline ticket. After all my trips I have come to the conclusion that for me and my style I am best off making as many 4-5 night trips as my goal is maximum numbers of days there with as fewest gaps in between trips as possible. Some trips I got my airfare for 800 and the hotel was only 60 and I ended up doing only Gypsies and 4-7 days came out to be $2500-$3000 or so. Juggling the Gypsies and the Mainstream girls allows me to spend less overall to roll in to the next trip and the more times I see the Gypsies the more time I can ultimately spend there and if I end up tossing the RLD and a few indies in the mix I could probably extend trips with a day off or a cheap RLD or 100 e indy day. It is the 300-500 E clubs days that dent the budgets.

All of your math makes total sense, seems in line with my math either way we seem to be operating within our budgets. And you are right about a session here in the USA vs a session there, they suck here. Cutting those girls off or down 75 percent over what was has greatly opened up some spare cash for trips. They are just a waste of money, would rather apply it to Romanians as well, red couches or no couches. Any Romanian will do!

[Java Man]

So FKK and clinicas in Brazil you mean therma in Brazil? Are better right?Clinicas and Thermas are two different venues in Brazil. The termas are only found in Rio de Janeiro. They're FKK like, except the ladies are NOT nekkid. They're in bikini's and the termas are not as luxurious as the FKK's. In the termas, you can buy her a drink, and get to know her before you decide to partake. Clinicas are equivalent to massage parlors. On arrival you'll be shown the LU. Sao Paulo has clinicas and high end bars, with the ladies dressed to the 9's. It can get very expensive there.

[Java Man]

How is Vegas brothel? I went to Las Vegas, but I did not go to brothels there or in the region. Are line up as young and beautiful as German FKK at Nevada brothels or?To get an idea of what they look like Google "Cathouse: The Series" It was an HBO TV series that documents the professional lives of the workers at the Moonlite BunnyRanch, a legal brothel in Nevada. I went in 1985, it was so good, I NEVER went back. I concur with what Kosher Kowboy has stated about these places.

[Mr Ho]

Clinicas and Thermas are two different venues in Brazil. The termas are only found in Rio de Janeiro. They're FKK like, except the ladies are NOT nekkid. They're in bikini's and the termas are not as luxurious as the FKK's. In the termas, you can buy her a drink, and get to know her before you decide to partake. Clinicas are equivalent to massage parlors. On arrival you'll be shown the LU. Sao Paulo has clinicas and high end bars, with the ladies dressed to the 9's. It can get very expensive there.So far people around me think I am into German culture and history as I go to Germany every year, one time I will try Brazil, then my people around me will suddenly see me liking the Brazilian culture and history LOL.

As for now, I stick to German FKK while it last.

[Mr Ho]

To get an idea of what they look like Google "Cathouse: The Series" It was an HBO TV series that documents the professional lives of the workers at the Moonlite BunnyRanch, a legal brothel in Nevada. I went in 1985, it was so good, I NEVER went back. I concur with what Kosher Kowboy has stated about these places.I mongered once in Washington dc and quality of girl was limited. I wonder if there is good mongering destination in USA?

I went to Vegas but long time ago when I was a kid, so if I have chance to go there for holiday or business, I will definitely monger there, but for mongering destination I stick to German FKK for now while it last as it is and I hope it last as it is for life time.

[Chongmal]

This is not the primary driver of grade inflation. Instructors don't think to themselves "Oh I better give Johnny an A because that will keep enrollment up and I can keep my job. ".

The main driver is that students fill out evaluation forms at the end of the semester, and it's simply a fact that instructors who are hard graders get lower evaluations. And those evaluation numbers have an influence, often a very strong influence, on the faculty member's yearly evaluation and pay increase. I. e. Instructors have a quick and direct monetary incentive to give high grades. This has both a conscious and subconscious impact.I actually agree with both of you. McA's point about inflating grades begins at a much earlier age when children are told you can be anything in the world you want to be. This is nice to instill hope at a young age but at some point the gold stars and smiley face band-aids need to stop. I have personally witnessed parents in school, yelling and screaming at teachers because their child received an average grade. The next day, my children told me the child was bragging because their grade was raised. In my mind, this does 3 things: reduces the willingness of teachers to grade honestly, encourages other parents to behave the same way, teaches the youth from an early age not to respect authority and look for the easy way out.

I much prefer the European schools my children attended. The teacher presented a curriculum that is beyond the ability of nearly all children in the class. Grades are given honestly and at the end of the term a number grade on a scale from 1-10 is given. A number 5 for example, represents 50-59% cumulative score for all assignments and tests for that class. If a student has an average of 6 across all classes a 5 in one or two classes is still considered passing. If a child gets a 9 in a class the school may review the curriculum to ensure everything that was required to be taught was. At the end of the first six years a test is given to verify the child has successfully learned the required information to proceed to secondary school. Once in secondary school, the child starts to be guided towards subjects, skills, careers, based on academic performance. By the second year of secondary the child will not stay on a math and science track if their performance shows they don't have the aptitude to successfully follow the courses. They may instead be guided into mechanical or trade skills. In the US, there would be riots in the streets if teachers and school staff told parents that their 13 year old child has no chance to go to university but should instead focus to become an electrician, plumber, baker, etc.

The points Neurosynth makes, in my opinion are derived from the actions taken earlier in children education that transcend the years and technology. These children who have learned from their parents that they can bully their way through life, they can become anything using these techniques, they are entitled, are now young adults. They are empowered by technology to rate the professors and the most important criteria are grades easy, passes everyone. The value of hard work and dedication is lost. The realization that the US education is failing our nation is still denied. Students from more and more countries continue to perform higher than those from the USA.

Instead of taking a realistic and achievable approach to correcting the issues with education in the USA, our politicians advocate for vouchers for private schools. I come from a small sparsely populated area in the USA that happens to be home to an expensive highly sought out charter school. Instead of making education for everyone better, instead of instilling the thought that it's not disgraceful to not have a university degree, instead of telling our children the truth, we teach them again that money and power can buy success.

[Member #4581]

"In the US, there would be riots in the streets if teachers and school staff told parents that their 13 year old child has no chance to go to university but should instead focus to become an electrician, plumber, baker, etc. ".

This is a rhetorical point. Teachers are not telling parents in general anything about the careers of their 13 year olds. That is not the business of the teacher anyway. And they are not. And no, riots will not start either. If you read the comments pages on WSJ, a publication generally patronized by the higher income bracketed, many people bemoan that more kids are not going the professional apprentice route into the careers you mentioned.

And the broader point about bashing American education system: those kinds of doomsday predictions have been around for 30 to 40 years, if not longer. Russians were gettig ahead, then Japanese, then Koreans, the Finns, etc etc. There is more to an educational system than rote learning. Yes, the Koreans and Finns score better on standardized tests at age 16 perhaps, but by the time they are 25 all their creativity, innovative thinking, risk taking ability seem to disapppear. The brightest of the brightest in Korea go work for Samsung, which is great in commodity semiconductors due to their massive capital investments but all the brightest kids of Korea can't write code worth shit. As for Finns, did I miss the demise of their one tech firm? If American boys and girls are so uneducated, how are the best tech firms all in the US land -- for the most part, these are staffed with many youngsters who were deemed to be behind their Korean and other counterparts in the recent past. And exactly how did US GDP per capita and average net income grow muchh faster than the rest of G8 over a decade and more?

[Captain Solo]

Washington DC used to have many beautiful Southern girls working the streets, until mid 80's when the Russian embassy produced a video showing prostitutes and homeless drug addicts hanging out on the street in mid winter within a mile of the Whitehouse, and shamed the corrupt and decadent capitalists. Then president Ronald Reagan ordered and funded just about all police agencies and the country with federal money to eradicate prostitution.

Las Vegas has free lancers working the casinos, some young and very pretty. If you see a single girl or a pair of girls sitting by themselves in the bar, or cruising the casino, giving you inquiring eyes, they are the "Casino Girl" available to go to your room for sex. Just smile at them and they would come over asking if you want company. They usually ask for $200 to $400 a session, depending on how busy the nights are, but some might do $100. Casinos' security know these working girls and would let them work until they start causing problems. These guys remember the trouble-making girls and would refuse them entry.

Escorts services will have guys pass out color flyers on the main drag offering $100 sessions, but when the girls arrive, the $100 is just a strip tease. Sex will cost about $400. There are web sites for escorts that would send girls to hotels, if you know where to look. Internet prostitution via Craigslist and Backpage has been busted. Be careful of police stings online.

There are a few massage joints in Chinatown on Spring Valley, known to offer FS. There are also apartments with Asian girls, Korean, Chinese, Thai, scattered around Chinatown. Rates are around $120.

I would forget about the legal brothels outside of Las Vegas as they are about 40 to 50 miles out in the boondocks, the line ups are usually half dozen thick, old truckers' wives, not worth bagging, except Cherry's Bunny Ranch with a few young, hot girls. You could sit at the bar, buy the girls a few drinks and bull shit with them They would show you the facilities and their private rooms, then produce a written menu with services starting with $600 for a CBJ, up to $5,000 for a threesome session with 2 girls etc. They would negotiate down, but the houses take half their fares so it will be costly. Most night the brothels have no.

There are street girls working on Fremont Ave and Boulder Blvd, mostly desperate drug addicts. I would skip the street scenes as there risks of robberies and LVPD's sex stings on the streets to raise revenue for the city.

Overall the US is very restrictive and punitive with paid sex in every jurisdiction. US women are withdrawn and unsocial in public places. It's difficult to pick up women for one night stands except those obvious Casino Girls. Tension between the sexes is pretty high. I don't know where and how most single US women get sex, besides their huge vibrators hehe.

[Chongmal]

"In the US, there would be riots in the streets if teachers and school staff told parents that their 13 year old child has no chance to go to university but should instead focus to become an electrician, plumber, baker, etc. ".

This is a rhetorical point. Teachers are not telling parents in general anything about the careers of their 13 year olds. That is not the business of the teacher anyway. And they are not. And no, riots will not start either. If you read the comments pages on WSJ, a publication generally patronized by the higher income bracketed, many people bemoan that more kids are not going the professional apprentice route into the careers you mentioned.You missed my point. In Europe, based on performance in the classroom, children are funneled toward the education path and careers for which they show more aptitude. Your heavy response toward my comments is evidence to me how unacceptable this concept would be to the general population in the USA, when it is widely accepted in much of the civilized world. It's amazing to me that the USA focuses so heavily on athletics and other extracurricular activities and less on actually teaching critical skills. In the late 80's almost all votech classes were eliminated in the state where I attended school. Gone were the days of small engine mechanics, automotive mechanics, wood working and home economics due to budget constraints but at the same time provisions were made to expand the extracellular activities. In Europe extracurricular activities are not related to the school but are instead private club activities. School is reserved and focused on education. I believe I have a good understanding of both the USA and European education systems having gone through the USA system myself and my children going through the European system for the majority of there schooling. My son returned to the USA in his 9th year. He was required to take tests for evaluation and placement in classes because his European reports showed mostly 6's and 7's except for English, Netherlands and German which were higher. After the tests were graded and evaluations made because he answered some science and math questions in Latin and French, they promoted him to the 12th year classes where he earned perfect scores. Unfortunately, he required another three years of credits to graduate so he was encouraged to take a kickback year and then signed up for online classes in Chinese, University level mathematics, science, etc. Where he also earned perfect scores. This is a personal example that I witnessed, not a statistical report pulled from somewhere. Yes, I'm hard on the USA education system but I don't feel I bash it. I feel that I provide it with an honest assessment.

Some people may question my loyalty to my country. My loyalty is unwavering but my mind is open. Yes, my skin is so white I must be privileged. My children say I'm so patriotic that I'm socially unacceptable.

[Delta Indigo]

"In the US, there would be riots in the streets if teachers and school staff told parents that their 13 year old child has no chance to go to university but should instead focus to become an electrician, plumber, baker, etc. ".

This is a rhetorical point. Teachers are not telling parents in general anything about the careers of their 13 year olds. That is not the business of the teacher anyway. And they are not. And no, riots will not start either. If you read the comments pages on WSJ, a publication generally patronized by the higher income bracketed, many people bemoan that more kids are not going the professional apprentice route into the careers you mentioned.

And the broader point about bashing American education system: those kinds of doomsday predictions have been around for 30 to 40 years, if not longer. Russians were gettig ahead, then Japanese, then Koreans, the Finns, etc etc. There is more to an educational system than rote learning. Yes, the Koreans and Finns score better on standardized tests at age 16 perhaps, but by the time they are 25 all their creativity, innovative thinking, risk taking ability seem to disapppear. The brightest of the brightest in Korea go work for Samsung, which is great in commodity semiconductors due to their massive capital investments but all the brightest kids of Korea can't write code worth shit. As for Finns, did I miss the demise of their one tech firm? If American boys and girls are so uneducated, how are the best tech firms all in the US land -- for the most part, these are staffed with many youngsters who were deemed to be behind their Korean and other counterparts in the recent past. And exactly how did US GDP per capita and average net income grow muchh faster than the rest of G8 over a decade and more?I think the original issue is getting confused here. I finished my BA and MA in the USA and also studied in Sweden. I call tell you that the US education system is far superior, at least at the university level than most European systems. I agree with Jnpr30 here. So please don't accuse me of inane america bashing, I speak from a lot of experience.

But McAdonis is right about a few things, and one of his points is actually quite different. The cost of higher education is increasingly expensive and it is not longer the key to El Dorado. My original point was not that quality of the US education system is not good, at the university level I reiterate, I can not vouch for US high schools, although I do think critical analysis and creative thinking is am American strength in education, is bad.

Rather I meant that due to increasingly inequality and the sharp increases in the cost of higher education and health care, that life in the US was increasingly unlivable. I am not only talking about the infamous "middle class" here, but also about people who are relatively affluent.

The way America is structured makes life very difficult, higher education and health care are virtually cost less in the vast majority of European countries, we can argue about the quality, but these two things will not financially destroy you.

Where McAdonis is totally right is that higher education costs an arm and a leg in the US and it is essential for a barely reasonably quality of life and not just an extravagant one. Yes, so the education might be great, but it is harder and harder to keep your head above water in the US. I really think this is quite apparent and not "america bashing. ".

[Member #4581]

The average student debt is ranging from 20 grand to 40. Is it too much, just oK? That's the average. And not everyone has debt at the time of graduation. If you go in state, it is much cheaper. A smart student with common sense might study Electrical Engineering at the local state school and graduate with very little debt and obtain a great job paying 60 grand right out of gate. Someone with less common sense might pay an arm and leg to obtain a degree in gender studies or Arabian Lit or some such subject from out of state school or a prestigious Ivy League, graduate with 200 grand debt and bleak job prospects.

https://ticas.org/posd/map-state-data

On the whole, I think debt levels at graduation are high but not outrageous. Our system is still providing great jobs. What's the point of spending 4 years in college as they do in Spain or Italy or other places, find no job, go back to school to park yourself for another 3 and then another 2 and so on till mid 30's? When the education leads to a well paying job, that education is worth paying for.

The underlying reasons for debt increase are far more complex. Our system is flooded with easy loans. In addition to Sallie, there is tons of easy private money for student loans. An 18 yr old who has no clue about future debt burden signs up for these loans because it is so easy to get them. Schools found it easy to raise tuitions because so many students were able to borrow and pay up. Not different from how easy money fueled the housing crisis of 2008. And there are easy loans available because every institution and central bank in the world parks their reserves in dollar and then look for microscopic yield advantages. This is a privilege and burden that comes from dollar being world's reserve currency.

Secondly, we have millions of foreign students who come from the richest families in their countries and willing to pay whatever tuition American schools charge. To some extent, thy set the upper end of the price range.

As for high schools, there is such a wide range. Yes, inner city schools may be failing, but at the same time there are thousands of schools which are truly outstanding. Just remember, these same high school students go into American universities and if they were so ill prepared in high school they would be flunking out badly in college — but they are not.

[Kosher Kowboy]

I mongered once in Washington dc and quality of girl was limited. I wonder if there is good mongering destination in USA?

I went to Vegas but long time ago when I was a kid, so if I have chance to go there for holiday or business, I will definitely monger there, but for mongering destination I stick to German FKK for now while it last as it is and I hope it last as it is for life time.I grew up in the District, was a hidden secret until the late 1980's and we had brothels all over but they all got shut down. I respect your eagerness to find new spots just like I do you look at the map and do your research in hunt of new places. ' Take a hint' from the Americans on here who not only go to Germany but the vast majority of American mongers are going to go to Sosua in the DR (shithole, could write me a check to go I would rip it up), Costa Rica (inflated pricing now) , Panama (hot, humid and either really cheap pussy or overpriced girls who also work CR and Colombia for less than they ask in Panama) , Colombia itself with 3 cities maybe 4 in specific and none of them on my docket as of today, Brazil is very popular and I am researching it but have hesitations that do not exist in Germany and behind all those places is Asia mainly Thailand and I have more interest in the food and street cart vendors I see on the Food Network and Anthony Bourdain's old show (may he RIP) than I do in their scene. We also have the islands off our south east coast but SXM is rebuilding still and prices have gone up and quality down but the Dutch side of St. Maartan used to be great, the other Dutch Antilles suck.

Give me Germany and Western Europe any day over the rest of the world. For now. However, I have several friends some on here trying to drag me to Thailand maybe I will give in but several trying to sell me on Hong Kong too. Hong Kong and Shanghai I want to see before I die so some day will sample. I know little of India but one of my former clients is from India and knows my game and tells me I must as he words it go to this place called Goa in India. It is a fancy beach area and although not a monger destination it is full of girls many hot who apparently hang out in the hotel bars working for not much targeting mainly British men or whoever might be there. I wouldn't say these girls are cheap but if one wants to sample a ' James Bond Quality Indian Lady' this place is probably where one can find her, everything here is I am told 4 and 5 star quality for food and lodging and safety not an issue at all.

The USA never was a monger destination per se like a Brazil, a Thailand or a Germany nor will it be. If already in the USA is worth looking but to come here to monger is a waste. At this time the best pussy can be found for good pricing still in Texas (mainly DFW / HOU), Florida is still up and rolling (Southern FL, massive downward pressure on pricing from the Cuban girls) , Denver is as good as it was prior, great pussy town! That being said if you really want a vacation here and get a hooker than I say go skiing or rafting in Summit Country CO and spend your first night and last night downtown Denver. There is also a casino area called Black Hawk about 30 miles west of Denver on I-70 near Idaho Springs full of hotels and restaurants and not loaded up with White Trash gawkers like Vegas is. Fun place still has that old west ' gold mine' feel to it. I recommend the Crowne Plaza off the 16th Street Mall area as it allows smoking in a dedicated area and go get the Colorado rack of lamb at Elways even if it is over 60 bucks, and try out some Rocky Mountain Oysters at the Buckhorn Exchange (bull balls) they are actually pretty good. As protein packed as a Gypsy's vagina but probably not as moist and flavorful :D :D

I think you are doing well in Germany, only change a losing game, to add in the USA for this game is flushing money down the toilet.

[HungryStud101]

Try to go into a bank and get a mortgage. You have to prove you don't need the money in order to get it! Compare that to student loans. If you want to go to a privte school and borrow 30 K a year so that you can get a degree in Left Handed Puppetry, you will get that loan and then end up tending bar trying to pay back 120 K at 6. 5% interest while making 18 K / year. It is the next housing crises waiting to happen.

Read about Mike Meru, an orthodontist who graduated from University of Southern Cal's dental school and owes over $1 Million in student loans. He makes $225 K / year and he pays about $1,500 a month and that isn't enough to cover the interest. His debt grows by 130 $/ day. I don't think he sees escorts. In two decades he will owe $2 Million. What an idiot! Who loaned him all this money?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-meru-has-1-million-in-student-loans-how-did-that-happen-1527252975

[HungryStud101]

I grew up in the District, was a hidden secret until the late 1980's and we had brothels all over but they all got shut down. I respect your eagerness to find new spots

I think you are doing well in Germany, only change a losing game, to add in the USA for this game is flushing money down the toilet.Brazil remains my favorite destination. I have studied and practiced the language for several years but I am still not fluent. I get better every time I go. Rio is probably the best place for someone who doesn't know any Portuguese. I love the termas but they are probably not as good as the FKKs if I remember correctly. You usually just go with one girl but she will really love you for the money and sometimes even go home with you off the clock. What I really like are the clinica scene in Sao Paulo where the past few visits I have been doing interactive 3-sums for the equivalent of 80 $ USD / hour. However, you have to have some understanding of the language or a guide and you have to be a little more careful as Sampa is intimidating. Rio is a bit more dangerous but set up for tourists. My Paulista friends are afraid of that city. Having said all this Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal.

Vegas sucks in comparison to all these places. An acquaintance went to the Chicken Ranch and he said they brought out a line-up of 8 girls that he wouldn't fuck for free. He never said how much they charged but only that they wanted some stupid amount of money. A few years ago I was in Vegas for a work convention and I had a girl coming over for 500$/hour. We were talking for two weeks. I asked her to dress up like one of her photos and she said that will cost me an extra 100$. I said you got to wear something, don't you? For 500$ she arrives in jeans and curlers in her hair? I refused to pay the extortion fee and she didn't show up or call to cancel. So I had 100 Proof send over a girl for 400 $ who was OK but not the quality of girls I get in Montreal for the equivalent of 150 $USD. I went to the Hobby Shop for 350 $ and saw a Korean girl. That was nice. But not like the other places I go. When the economy tanked in 2008 in the US some of the local strip clubs (non-Vegas) I grew up with became full service. I checked it out and it was so but it was not sustainable. Feminists (who are usually the fugliest women one will ever encounter) had persuaded LE to bust all those places so women are not exploited. Now those women work minimum wage jobs. I digress.

Vegas should be at the rock bottom of everyone's TDL for this hobby. The US is a sex prison. Long live Germany (and Brazil and Montreal).

[Mongerer88]

Be fair, Hungry. If I recall correctly, you had a good time with Hobby Shop and with a 100 Proof agency lady I think I recommended who looked like Mila Kunis. Granted that 100 Proof agency is now $500 an hour but she was cute and full GFE. The original question presented was whether someone who is in Vegas for work or finds a very inexpensive domestic flight is better off spending $900-$1,000 on two ladies, or should he incur much more significant travel costs by choosing to fly outside of the US to go to an international destination with much better prices for the same service and less screening hassles. It is a legitimate question. I do Vegas and I do international. If you choose properly in Vegas (quality independent or with the one or two legitimate agencies), I get the same thing as overseas, just at a much higher price, obviously.


Brazil remains my favorite destination. I have studied and practiced the language for several years but I am still not fluent. I get better every time I go. Rio is probably the best place for someone who doesn't know any Portuguese. I love the termas but they are probably not as good as the FKKs if I remember correctly. You usually just go with one girl but she will really love you for the money and sometimes even go home with you off the clock. What I really like are the clinica scene in Sao Paulo where the past few visits I have been doing interactive 3-sums for the equivalent of 80 $ USD / hour. However, you have to have some understanding of the language or a guide and you have to be a little more careful as Sampa is intimidating. Rio is a bit more dangerous but set up for tourists. My Paulista friends are afraid of that city. Having said all this Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal..

[Kosher Kowboy]

Brazil remains my favorite destination. I have studied and practiced the language for several years but I am still not fluent. Rio is a bit more dangerous but set up for tourists. . Having said all this Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal.

Vegas should be at the rock bottom of everyone's TDL for this hobby. The US is a sex prison. Long live Germany (and Brazil and Montreal).Totally agree on LV as garbage in fact even for gambling ( Casinos litter the USA now all over no need go NV) it is not needed anymore unless one likes to bet on sports and sit and watch the giant screens other than that can use a bookie here in Texas. Two major sports teams now, all commercialized, no longer that Oasis in the Desert it was.

I have spoken with this Claudia at Sharks a few times whose Spanish is as fluent as any native Spanish speaker although Portuguese is her native tongue (if she really is Brazilian) but she has told me if you speak English and Spanish one should have zero issues with communications in either of the two main Brazilian monger destinations. So many words are similar in fact she spoke a tad Portuguese to me and I replied in Spanish, she kept it quite simple but I think she was trying to show me Spanish will allow you to 'get by' down there if the girl doesn't speak English. I use this Romanian / English translator on my phone for communications across the oceans between trips and I notice tons of Romanian words mirror their English and Spanish meanings although variances are there. It is not like Spanish and Portuguese are like comparing Chinese to Hebrew; the two are so similar although many say Italian is closest to Portuguese.

Either way, for those here who do go to Brazil and speak no Portuguese how does your English and Spanish (if speak it) hold up with the girls?

Is service / deals enhanced? I found in my journeys to Latin America speaking Spanish greatly enhances times and the girls like being able to enjoy a date, short or long being able to actually communicate. I saw tons of idiots passing a phone back and forth, I also know several pay more. Claudia outright told me the girls in Rio will hose guys who can't communicate. I read what many of the posters who do not speak Spanish pay in Panama in reports and it is less than the Spanish speaking johns by at least 25-50 bucks an hour!

My ' issues' with Brazil and Colombia are one in the same. I am not scared but why fuck around there when Germany is so safe, IMHO worth the premium. Every time I consider Colombia or Brazil and start reading I always come across a ' Only take cabs the hotel calls you' or ' After 6 PM only take taxis even between hotels' or ' Only use cash stations in banks where police stand guard' or ' at night do not walk thru the park' and so on. In Panama (considered very safe and it was) there were still heavily armed paramilitary police standing outside of the brothels (la Mayor and Bocatorena) as well as every supermarket, bank, Chinese restaurant, casino and even shoe stores and Wendy's and McDonalds. They aren't there for shits and giggles they are there because if they weren't the police fear issues. Police control points littered the city too and PTY is a much safer city than others in that region. Even when in licensed taxis I felt like I needed to ' watch my back' whereas in a German climate controlled Mercedes taxi I can simply relax and not worry about him pulling in to some back alley and 5 guys grabbing my ATM card. When guys post ' If going to Colombia make sure you keep a low debit card balance in case you get mugged' I simply have to ask myself why bother going when one can go to Europe? Just my opinion, to each their own.

I have spent enough years seeing armed guards cruising the streets of Mexico and elsewhere all seated in the back of usually Nissan Frontier's or Toyota Tacoma's, IMHO this is still third world and I am not knocking other mongers' choices to go to these countries it is just I have reservations and hesitations. Honestly she probably isn't even in the same boat or even close as most in Brazil but I would rather go to Sharks and stuff 100 Euros in Claudia's hands to have a Brazilian or go to a piso in Barcelona for 60/100 and fuck tons of Brazilians and Colombianas for that matter as well as Cubans and every other South American country than deal with the crap I read about.

Every place has issues but I have yet to see 10 armed guards in a beat up shitty pickup cruising the streets of Frankfurt and unless they are eating there I have yet to see the German police standing guard outside of any Doner shops or places with cash. Same in Spain. In Mexico, Central or South America every 'Rewe' would have an armed guard, probably for a good reason. Make that two of them.

So for those who do visit both Germany and Brazil how would you compare safety as well as getting by with just English / Spanish. Colombia would be an easy slam dunk to negotiate and navigate thru but no interest in downgrading from Europe. Brazil, on the table and I wouldn't mind if anyone plans a trip tagging along. I do want to try it but would prefer to go there with a experienced monger who knows the lay of the land.

I think Turgid and HungryStud and I am sure a few others are both well schooled in Brazil and given I have read their numerous posts here and have a point of reference to go off it would be nice even if in a PM to get their perspective not on the quality or pricing of the girls but on the language barriers if any as well as any safety issues. I know there is much info on that forum but sometimes when you are familiar with a poster it is much easier to put in perspective their thoughts than posters you have no clue about.

[Java Man]

Give me Germany and Western Europe any day over the rest of the world. For now. However, I have several friends some on here trying to drag me to Thailand maybe I will give in but several trying to sell me on Hong Kong too. Hong Kong and Shanghai I want to see before I die so some day will sample. Add Macau to your list. They have Termas there, with an Asian Flavor. After visiting Frankfurt and Berlin, Thailand is still #1. Germany has more variety of things to do, but I get more bang for the buck in Thailand. The Philippines is GFE central.


Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal.This was my #1 issue with Germany. I need to visit Montreal. I luv me some French-Canadian babes. Oh-La-La!


Totally agree on LV as garbage in fact even for gambling ( Casinos litter the USA now all over no need go NV) Either way, for those here who do go to Brazil and speak no Portuguese how does your English and Spanish (if speak it) hold up with the girls? My ' issues' with Brazil and Colombia are one in the same. I am not scared but why fuck around there when Germany is so safe, IMHO worth the premium. Every time I consider Colombia or Brazil and start reading I always come across a ' Only take cabs the hotel calls you' or ' After 6 PM only take taxis even between hotels' or ' Only use cash stations in banks where police stand guard' or ' at night do not walk thru the park' and so on.

So for those who do visit both Germany and Brazil how would you compare safety as well as getting by with just English / Spanish. Colombia would be an easy slam dunk to negotiate and navigate thru but no interest in downgrading from Europe. Brazil, on the table and I wouldn't mind if anyone plans a trip tagging along. I do want to try it but would prefer to go there with a experienced monger who knows the lay of the land.Better gambling odds in Las Vegas vs the Other US Casinos. I'm Latino and speak Spanish fluently. (That does NOT go hand in Hand for US Latinos.) I first went to Rio in 2001. Speaking Spanish didn't really help me. The locals understood me better than I understood them. Speaking Portuguese helps with the freelancers. The prices are set in the clinicas and Rio's Termas. On that first trip, I met a non-pro and was motivated to learn Portuguese. Subsequent trips became better as I was now able to communicate with the locals.

I've seen all those safety precautions before. I don't think I've ever followed them. Because I'm Latino, I blend in. (Remember, the Locals are the ones who primarily get mugged.) I've never had any safety issues while in Rio, and I've walked alone at all hours. You have to be vigilant on your surroundings. Don't be flashy wearing jewelry. Don't whip out your expensive smartphone on the street. And Most Importantly, Don't get Drunk.

[Mongerer88]

Hungry, sorry I didn't read in your Vegas comments that you described the 100 Proof agency experience. The last two ladies I saw at 100 Proof were as good as most (not all) Montreal providers I have seen, but neither of the 100 Proof ladies are as good as my favorite Vegas independent. We are all different, but to me it is worth it to pay the higher USA Costs if I am in Vegas. I don't like sitting in my hotel room in Vegas alone when I know I can have a pretty girl over who does BBJTCIM and multiples in the hour. I don't get much enjoyment from calculating how much more I will have for a future international trip by foregoing fun now. And as bfsie pointed out, some of us would prefer let's say 10 sexual encounters spread out over months instead of 10 sexual encounters spread out over a few days. To each his own.

If I sat in my hotel room alone and studied, maybe I could figure out this math in the student loan horror story. I guess my American education fails me.

He went to school, entered a respected profession, earns $225,000 a year, and apparently claims he cannot pay back $1 million of student debt. A guy working for 30 years at $225,000 will earn $6,750,000. Paying back the student debt, even with interest, would leave him with a $4-$5 million profit.

The median household income in California is $80,000 or so. That is household, not individual, but let's be very generous and say a guy with no advanced education and no student debt can earn $80,000 a year (which I think is high). $80,000 times the same thirty years of work is $2. 4 million. Less than the dentist earns even after paying off his student debt.

The problem is accepting this bullshit that the Dentist can only pay $18,000 a year back from his $225,000 a year salary. Most people in California (assuming the $80,000 a year household income is for two people) make $40,000 or so each.

I think this helps non-US guys understand why top US escorts charge so much and get so much per hour. The incomes and costs of living are higher in the US.


Try to go into a bank and get a mortgage. You have to prove you don't need the money in order to get it! Compare that to student loans. If you want to go to a privte school and borrow 30 K a year so that you can get a degree in Left Handed Puppetry, you will get that loan and then end up tending bar trying to pay back 120 K at 6. 5% interest while making 18 K / year. It is the next housing crises waiting to happen.

Read about Mike Meru, an orthodontist who graduated from University of Southern Cal's dental school and owes over $1 Million in student loans. He makes $225 K / year and he pays about $1,500 a month and that isn't enough to cover the interest. His debt grows by 130 $/ day. I don't think he sees escorts. In two decades he will owe $2 Million. What an idiot! Who loaned him all this money?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-meru-has-1-million-in-student-loans-how-did-that-happen-1527252975

[Delta Indigo]

The average student debt is ranging from 20 grand to 40. Is it too much, just oK? That's the average. And not everyone has debt at the time of graduation. If you go in state, it is much cheaper. A smart student with common sense might study Electrical Engineering at the local state school and graduate with very little debt and obtain a great job paying 60 grand right out of gate. Someone with less common sense might pay an arm and leg to obtain a degree in gender studies or Arabian Lit or some such subject from out of state school or a prestigious Ivy League, graduate with 200 grand debt and bleak job prospects.

https://ticas.org/posd/map-state-data

On the whole, I think debt levels at graduation are high but not outrageous. Our system is still providing great jobs. What's the point of spending 4 years in college as they do in Spain or Italy or other places, find no job, go back to school to park yourself for another 3 and then another 2 and so on till mid 30's? When the education leads to a well paying job, that education is worth paying for.

The underlying reasons for debt increase are far more complex. Our system is flooded with easy loans. In addition to Sallie, there is tons of easy private money for student loans. An 18 yr old who has no clue about future debt burden signs up for these loans because it is so easy to get them. Schools found it easy to raise tuitions because so many students were able to borrow and pay up. Not different from how easy money fueled the housing crisis of 2008. And there are easy loans available because every institution and central bank in the world parks their reserves in dollar and then look for microscopic yield advantages. This is a privilege and burden that comes from dollar being world's reserve currency.

Secondly, we have millions of foreign students who come from the richest families in their countries and willing to pay whatever tuition American schools charge. To some extent, thy set the upper end of the price range.

As for high schools, there is such a wide range. Yes, inner city schools may be failing, but at the same time there are thousands of schools which are truly outstanding. Just remember, these same high school students go into American universities and if they were so ill prepared in high school they would be flunking out badly in college but they are not.By saying that student debt is okay, I think you are being excessively pro American at all costs. Why compare the US to Italy and Spain, those are obviously not the prime examples. Why don't you compare the US to Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark. Compare Louisiana and Arkansas to Italy and Spain, and how many great jobs are there in Louisiana and Arkansas?

20 to 40 K is the recent average? Where is the trend going? 40 K tuition average at private school is insane. The University of California's instate tuition is now around $14000, are you really saying all is fine and well in the homeland?

[McAdonis]

If American boys and girls are so uneducated, how are the best tech firms all in the US land -- for the most part, these are staffed with many youngsters who were deemed to be behind their Korean and other counterparts in the recent past.Much of the tech talent at USA Firms are not produced domestically any more like it was in the 1960's.

Close to 75 percent of engineers in Silicon Valley are foreign citizens, including 79% of the female engineers: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/17/h-1b-foreign-citizens-make-up-nearly-three-quarters-of-silicon-valley-tech-workforce-report-says/.

Percentage of international students at USA Graduate schools (81% electrical engineering, 79% computer science): https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment.


And exactly how did US GDP per capita and average net income grow muchh faster than the rest of G8 over a decade and more?One article I skimmed said the decline in education started within the last 45 years in the USA. Around that same time is when the USA Military began funding for a research project that would later become the Internet. Can we agree that the Internet is the "Industrial Revolution" of the 20th century? And that America is still reaping the economic benefits of technology it harvested back then? Britain was the first to industrialize and became the richest nation on earth as a result, did their economic advantages and infrastructure investments disappear overnight? America is still the richest nation and still has its "brand name" to be able to attract skilled foreign workers.

Artificial Intelligence (and related by-products like self-driving cars) is predicted to be the next technology shift. Some industry insiders believe China might take the lead in AI within a decade and reap the economic spoils. Can the USA afford to abdicate the lead there?

STEM is also a matter of national security. USA, Russia and China are all funding research quantum computing research efforts. This is essentially the Manhattan Project of the 21st century. For obvious reasons, you would not be able to use immigrant scientists for this type of work, not without a great deal of scrutiny anyway. "The fall of modern cryptography would disrupt the economy as well as the balance of power across nation states. " https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2017/08/11/this-is-why-quantum-computing-is-more-dangerous-than-you-realize/.

[Polyamorist]

By saying that student debt is okay, I think you are being excessively pro American at all costs. Why compare the US to Italy and Spain, those are obviously not the prime examples. Why don't you compare the US to Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark. Compare Louisiana and Arkansas to Italy and Spain, and how many great jobs are there in Louisiana and Arkansas?

20 to 40 K is the recent average? Where is the trend going? 40 K tuition average at private school is insane. The University of California's instate tuition is now around $14000, are you really saying all is fine and well in the homeland?Alas, Mr. Indigo's points are indisputable. A chart:

http://lenkiefer.com/img/charts_may_21_2017/cpi_05_21_all_2017%20with%20ed.gif

In short, health and education costs have ballooned since the nineties. And I remember there was already a big problem in the nineties.

It's why I wouldn't want to raise a family in the US. And that's without even getting to the Sex Prison aspects.

[Member #4581]

By saying that student debt is okay, I think you are being excessively pro American at all costs. Why compare the US to Italy and Spain, those are obviously not the prime examples. Why don't you compare the US to Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark. Compare Louisiana and Arkansas to Italy and Spain, and how many great jobs are there in Louisiana and Arkansas?

20 to 40 K is the recent average? Where is the trend going? 40 K tuition average at private school is insane. The University of California's instate tuition is now around $14000, are you really saying all is fine and well in the homeland?How much a person decides to borrow is that person's own decision. It is not upto me to say that is OK or not. When I say the debt is OK, it is at a systemic level. If Sallie goes belly up, then the tax payer has to bail it out, that's no good. I am against providing a backstop to poor lenders.

I already said sensible kids can pay less tuition, go instate and get great education in a subject that is lucrative. So, I am not justifying this by any means. If a rich dad wants to splurge and send his kid to a elite private school studying Arab Lit and medieval music history, so be it.

But the key source of the problem is the easy money in the system. When rates are kept artificially down for decades, asset price distortions happen.

As for doing selective comparisons A quick search shows US per capita GDP is still comfortably ahead of Germany or Netherlands. And the gap has grown in favor of US take a look at how those numbers were 10 years ago and today.

And no, I am not being excessively pro American at all costs. This debate started when people started dumping on US and how poorly educated we are etc. Really? I ask again, why is all that impressive education not translating into economic gains or new company formation in Europe, especially in technology given all their vaunted math prowess. Someone else even said Trump election is somehow indicative of Poorly educated Americans. Hmm. We just had Sweden Democrats winning a big vote share, LE Pen almost winning in France, AFD gaining strength in DE, Orban in Hungary, far right gaining in NED, not to mention Putin. But let us bash Americans, why not?!

I am pretty happy to trash our sex scene. Most Americans here are happy to admit FKK is numero uno, and how lucky Germans are. I have nothing but respect for Germans, their clubs are super awesome. But no need to dump on Americans on other topics.

[McAdonis]

I finished my BA and MA in the USA and also studied in Sweden. I call tell you that the US education system is far superior, at least at the university level than most European systems.Where does your alma mater rank? The top ranked American universities are still exceptional and considered amongst the best in the world. The other 90% of American universities produce graduates that are hit-and-miss. Also, grade inflation is a more recent phenomenon so if you graduated two decades ago perhaps this does not apply.


As for high schools, there is such a wide range. Yes, inner city schools may be failing, but at the same time there are thousands of schools which are truly outstanding. Just remember, these same high school students go into American universities and if they were so ill prepared in high school they would be flunking out badly in college but they are not.I agree that there is a wide range. Elite high schools in the US are feeder schools into the elite American universities. But as with my answer above, the other 90 percent of American high schools will pass anybody with a pulse (okay slight exaggeration). Despite being ill-prepared, they are not flunked out because at "Party University", students can earn degrees with minimal effort because in the past few decades universities have become commoditized and students are treated like consumers:

"When you treat a student as a customer, the customer is, of course, always right," he writes. "If a student and parent of that student want a high grade, you give it to them. ".

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/04/04/Real-Reason-It-s-So-Easy-Get-s-College


The main driver is that students fill out evaluation forms at the end of the semester, and it's simply a fact that instructors who are hard graders get lower evaluations. And those evaluation numbers have an influence, often a very strong influence, on the faculty member's yearly evaluation and pay increase. I. e. Instructors have a quick and direct monetary incentive to give high grades.This exact point is made here: https://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr1997/TROUT-ST.html when he proposes the "the elimination of student evaluations".


I have personally witnessed parents in school, yelling and screaming at teachers because their child received an average grade. The next day, my children told me the child was bragging because their grade was raised. This exact point is made here: http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/top_performers/2015/04/why_have_american_education_standards_collapsed.html "In other countries, grades are the result of a student's performance on an externally graded test. Everyone gets together to help Junior meet the high standards. In the USA, the land of second chances and wobbly standards, it is far easier to put pressure on the principal to put pressure on the teacher to give Junior the grades required to get into college. " The author also proposes his own theories about why vocational schools disappeared.

[Delta Indigo]

And no, I am not being excessively pro American at all costs. This debate started when people started dumping on US and how poorly educated we are etc. Really? I ask again, why is all that impressive education not translating into economic gains or new company formation in Europe, especially in technology given all their vaunted math prowess. Someone else even said Trump election is somehow indicative of Poorly educated Americans. Hmm. We just had Sweden Democrats winning a big vote share, LE Pen almost winning in France, AFD gaining strength in DE, Orban in Hungary, far right gaining in NED, not to mention Putin. But let us bash Americans, why not?!

I am pretty happy to trash our sex scene. Most Americans here are happy to admit FKK is numero uno, and how lucky Germans are. I have nothing but respect for Germans, their clubs are super awesome. But no need to dump on Americans on other topics.I have experienced my share of America bashing, especially in Sweden and I really don't like it either.

Trump did not get elected because people are stupider but rather due to the enormous stresses in American society.

Victor Orban is a disgrace but the only elected politician you listed in addition to Trump, Italy would have constituted a better example. In Sweden the far right got 17.6 per cent of the vote but Trump won the electoral college.

Something is seriously wrong when a country elects a blatantly unapologetic liar and self serving politician like Trump.

I don't like it when people bash America to soothe their own insecurities, but it is undeniable to that America has made an enormous mistake worthy of criticism.

How could anyone have faith in such a self serving and self centered narcissist. Why should anyone be silly enough to think he cares about them or excuse his flagrant distortion of facts.

I am afraid this is a severe stain on our country that can't be excused. Hillary was an awful candidate, but people should have known better.

[BaltiX]

There are plenty of tech companies being formed in Europe. Check out tech. Eu and other sites if you want to know more about startup scene. Changing the subject has anybody tried Mietmich, which is rival website to Kaufmich?

[Member #4581]

Sorry McA, I have no idea how much recent experience you have with US universities let alone US high schools to be making such sweeping, derogatory comments. Do you always make such generalizations? If Chongmal makes a comment about this subject it has good validity because he acknowledged he has kids in schools here. It is like me talking about the lineup in Brazilian termas never having stepped inside after I read a few reviews on an escort site.

So, 90% of our schools and colleges are worthless and we have the top GDP and per capita among the larger industrialized nations because we have some immigrants. Yup, we will go with that. Please tell us if the percent of worthless grads and grade inflation is much less in Europe. Despite such exacting standards, why is EU falling behind? Hmm.

Perhaps Europe can figure out if they can attract some immigrant engineers? I guess that is the only reason that US has been forging ahead? We must be doing something right if most of the brightest people in the world want to come work here. Wonder why they are skipping EU, despite the FKK clubs. I would go there in a heartbeat if they pay me the same 😀😀

BTW, these days we have just as many websites and blogs as there are people. If you search hard enough, you can always find a site that supports a view point. Does not make it encyclopedia britannica.

[HungryStud101]

Be fair, Hungry. If I recall correctly, you had a good time with Hobby Shop and with a 100 Proof agency lady I think I recommended who looked like Mila Kunis. Granted that 100 Proof agency is now $500 an hour but she was cute and full GFE. The original question presented was whether someone who is in Vegas for work or finds a very inexpensive domestic flight is better off spending $900-$1,000 on two ladies, or should he incur much more significant travel costs by choosing to fly outside of the US to go to an international destination with much better prices for the same service and less screening hassles. It is a legitimate question. I do Vegas and I do international. If you choose properly in Vegas (quality independent or with the one or two legitimate agencies), I get the same thing as overseas, just at a much higher price, obviously.Perhaps I came across as a little harsh but Vegas is so expensive. It is hard to jump up and down about an experience when I can get the same thing or better in Montreal for about 40% of the price. In Brazil, I can have a nice 3-sum for $80 USD or about 20% of the price. Yes, I had a good time with both 100 Proof and the Hobbyshop and I would recommend them if you are there. 100 Proof bailed me out after Marie Styles stood me up. If I am in Vegas I would call one or the other again but I wouldn't do both. I would save my money for a better hobby destination.

[HungryStud101]

The problem is accepting this bullshit that the Dentist can only pay $18,000 a year back from his $225,000 a year salary. Most people in California (assuming the $80,000 a year household income is for two people) make $40,000 or so each.

I think this helps non-US guys understand why top US escorts charge so much and get so much per hour. The incomes and costs of living are higher in the US.Yes, but if the fucker continues to pay 1,600 $ USD / month for a few more years and he will owe $2 MM and then the US tax payer will pay it.

I remember who your favorite is. I found her on Eros. She still looks good.

[HungryStud101]

T
Either way, for those here who do go to Brazil and speak no Portuguese how does your English and Spanish (if speak it) hold up with the girls?

I think Turgid and HungryStud and I am sure a few others are both well schooled in Brazil and given I have read their numerous posts here and have a point of reference to go off it would be nice even if in a PM to get their perspective not on the quality or pricing of the girls but on the language barriers if any as well as any safety issues. I know there is much info on that forum but sometimes when you are familiar with a poster it is much easier to put in perspective their thoughts than posters you have no clue about.Something about Portuguese: My friends tell me tha thtye can understand Spanish a lot better than the Spanish speaking peoples of LAA can understand them. My friend Gus learned Spanish in about two weeks so I got to think that coming back the other way (a Spanish speaking person learning Portuguese would be similarly easy. Just don't think that an English speaker can pick up Rosetta Stone or Pimsular and then go there and not have need for a interpreter. I've done Babel, Rosseta Stone, Pimsular, and Semantica. Most several times and I have made multiple trips of 12 days or more and I am by no means fluent.

Rio is one place you can probably find many GDPs that can speak English. In Sao Paulo, Mato Grosso, and Joinville, I have never met an English speaking GDP. Not to day they are not there. I just have not met them.

In the Sao Paulo there is a guy named ABG or AltoBomGusto that used to have a sex tourism business where he would take you to two clinicas a day and help you book the girl for a charge of 100 R / day. I have had friends that have used his service and say it is well worth it. For me, I have friends there and I also hop in a can and go to places myself as I am really trying to learn the language and I am having fun with it.

KK. Recently, I met a Colombian in the airport who was afraid to go to Brazil on vacation. I said "But sir. You are from Colombia. " Part of the problem is 24-hour news cycle and cable TV. I was pickpocketed at Carnaval - really a block party outside of Carnaval in Rio. The actual Carnaval was extremely safe. It is not like walking the streets of Montreal or Germany but I feel pretty safe.

[Java Man]

I got to think that coming back the other way (a Spanish speaking person learning Portuguese would be similarly easy.
Rio is one place you can probably find many GDPs that can speak English. In the Sao Paulo there is a guy named ABG or AltoBomGustoYes, It was easy for me to learn Portuguese. Knowing Spanish helped immensely. (BTW, Spanish hindered me learning French.) There is a negative to English speaking garotas: they've been around the block several times, and are usually hardened pros. Wow! ABG, there's a name you don't see anymore on the Brazil threads.

[SaratogaX]

Don't want to hijack education discussion but I am curious about this.

I am in a relationship but the next trip might take me into FKK land. I know I can go covered all the way and alleviate any of the fears when I get back but what if one elects to get uncovered BJ. What is the adequate amount of time after the last exposure to make sure one is STD free? Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

TIA.

[Kosher Kowboy]

(BTW, Spanish hindered me learning French.) There is a negative to English speaking garotas: they've been around the block several times, and are usually hardened pros..I love hardened pros as long as they don't try to rip me off than in that case it is on to the next. I love high miles on them, usually means they have stood the test of time or perhaps made a living ripping off tourists but one can usually sniff those types out in a short talk. One can always walk away if they sniff a scam artist. As to Spanish hindering your French I had the same issue in reverse. 5 years of high school French made it harder to learn the Spanish and to this day I still will toss out a French word when speaking Spanish.


I've done Babel, Rosseta Stone, Pimsular, and Semantica. Most several times and I have made multiple trips of 12 days or more and I am by no means fluent.

KK. Recently, I met a Colombian in the airport who was afraid to go to Brazil on vacation. I said "But sir. You are from Colombia. " Part of the problem is 24-hour news cycle and cable TV. I was pickpocketed at Carnaval - really a block party outside of Carnaval in Rio. The actual Carnaval was extremely safe. It is not like walking the streets of Montreal or Germany but I feel pretty safe.I am curious how you have fared using those programs. I tried Babel and found it useless, I have also been accustomed to Private Lessons at a school here so found it not only boring with no actual one on one interaction and not very good yet others swear by some of those programs. I studied with a foreign school using SKYPE and at $11 an hour (school was cheap, in Antigua) and it was for sure much better than the programs you mentioned but was kind of boring as well staring at a screen for all the studying with a little screen with the image of the teacher in the corner. I actually have gotten my best Spanish practice the last few years at Mainhatten, Sharks and Dietzenbach. 3 to 4 of the Gypsies are fluent in Spanish and speak it very well almost flawless, Mainhatten has several and Sharks did as well and sometimes it is easier to use Spanish than English if their English level is lower than my Spanish level. I like seeing the Spanish speaking ones, sort of get private lessons on top of blowjobs and sex and I get to improve my dirty Spanish as well.

I wouldn't say I am scared to go to Brazil just have more reservations and hesitations and IMO one can get pick pocketed at the FFMain station or watching the fourth of July fireworks on the Mall in DC just as easy as during Carnival. Like any place I guess the first trip make it easy, get the lay of the land, perhaps go or meet up with another monger and just stay at a decent place on the beach and take taxis to the Termas and eat meals at or near the hotels until one knows the area a tad. For every story we hear of ' Guy got mugged leaving a cash station' there are probably thousands of guys who used that same cash station without incident. Just like we read a bad restaurant review or hotel review, often no one writes when happy only when bad. I remember reading so much about muggers and thieves in Negril and even in Philipsburg at night and never to walk the roads etc yet once there never an issue and I walked those very streets with no issues.

Brazil is worth a shot for me as several I know who have gone swear by it and tell me these clubs are high end and classier and much more in line with what I am used to in Germany and although I do not fuck the men I am told the clientele in Brazil relative to Colombia is night and day as well and I enjoy chatting it up with other guys and hearing stories of good places. Colombia I will save for a recession / bear market when the time comes to cut back on spending and visit low budget places or I will just go to only Day Care and learn to embrace the RLD so I can still be in Western Europe.

But I am pretty sold on Brazil, a must see just need to research the flights and find the right hotels as I will not use Air BnB anywhere, admittedly I am a hotel snob and like safe boxes, front desks, sometimes security, the ability to switch rooms in a minute not writing a landlord if an issue arises and most serve breakfast. Since I am not a big fan of takeout or TLNs not so worried about rules on bringing girls in but would be nice to have the option; I can't imagine Rio hotels not allowing girls in, maybe the fine upper end ones have policies but I can't imagine blanket bans on the girls perhaps a fee if anything. If an issue will just fuck in those clubs, a win-win.

[HungryStud101]

But I am pretty sold on Brazil, a must see just need to research the flights and find the right hotels as I will not use Air BnB anywhere, admittedly I am a hotel snob and like safe boxes, front desks, sometimes security, the ability to switch rooms in a minute not writing a landlord if an issue arises and most serve breakfast. Since I am not a big fan of takeout or TLNs not so worried about rules on bringing girls in but would be nice to have the option; I can't imagine Rio hotels not allowing girls in, maybe the fine upper end ones have policies but I can't imagine blanket bans on the girls perhaps a fee if anything. If an issue will just fuck in those clubs, a win-win.The JW Marriott on Copacabana was the only hotel that I know that you don't have to pay a fee to bring a girl home. There may be others but I am not aware of them. Every place in Latin America, the girl will need her I. The. In order for you to bring her to your hotel. The hotel l fee can be steep. I remember it was significant the one time I picked a girl up in the lobby bar of the Hyatt in Sao Paulo. As I was told by Tanjo Libre that law is for your protection. If you get ripped off or the hotel gets ripped off they have the girls ID. You have to pass the "red face" walking ast the front desk. I once brought in a girl that was 18 years old and 3 months wearing 6" heels and the tightest and shortest little black dress and all eyes were on me! Just remember, Brazil has this system of love motels. You can always take them to a motel.

I prefer Sao Paulo as the girls are prettier in my opinion and the deals are better. The city is huge and intimidating and I do not think I have heard a word of English spoken by the Clinica girls, the freelancers, or the hotel girl or nay of the people at the desk. Honestly, my Portuguese grows by leaps in bounds in these places.

[HungryStud101]

Don't want to hijack education discussion but I am curious about this.

I am in a relationship but the next trip might take me into FKK land. I know I can go covered all the way and alleviate any of the fears when I get back but what if one elects to get uncovered BJ. What is the adequate amount of time after the last exposure to make sure one is STD free? Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

TIA.I don't know. For me, the amount of time after the last exposure is the reason I have to go to the FKK in the first place. Come on. All intercourse is covered and you can chose to have a covered blow job. Like the old joke about the girl that would ask her lovers just prior to sex "what are we going to name the baby?" This would cause the young man to stop and think and say "Oh yeah. Maybe we shouldn't do this. " Until one day she met little Johnny and after the foreplay got pretty hot and heavy Johnny decided it was time to fuck the girl. She stopped and said:

"What are we going to name the baby?

Little johnny paused for a second pulled out a condom and said, "If he gets through this we'll name him Houdini. ".

Your wearing a rubber. Get all the sex you can and don't worry about it.

[Rocky V]

Don't want to hijack education discussion but I am curious about this.

I am in a relationship but the next trip might take me into FKK land. I know I can go covered all the way and alleviate any of the fears when I get back but what if one elects to get uncovered BJ. What is the adequate amount of time after the last exposure to make sure one is STD free? Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

TIA.To be 100% sure you are STD free, you will need to have a full STD screen 3 months after visiting WGs. Condom use only protects you from some STDs (E. G. HIV) but others (gonorrhea, clamydia and siphyllis) can be transmitted by saliva or cross-contacts.

Play safe!

Rock.

[Kosher Kowboy]

The JW Marriott on Copacabana was the only hotel that I know that you don't have to pay a fee to bring a girl home. There may be others but I am not aware of them. Every place in Latin America, the girl will need her I. The. In order for you to bring her to your hotel. The hotel l fee can be steep. I remember it was significant the one time I picked a girl up in the lobby bar of the Hyatt in Sao Paulo. As I was told by Tanjo Libre that law is for your protection. If you get ripped off or the hotel gets ripped off they have the girls ID. You have to pass the "red face" walking ast the front desk. I once brought in a girl that was 18 years old and 3 months wearing 6" heels and the tightest and shortest little black dress and all eyes were on me! Just remember, Brazil has this system of love motels. You can always take them to a motel.
I know, I am being cheap. I will probably just go for 5-7 days and do those clubs and get my feet wet, doubt will get take out unless bags of carry out come with no napkins and an invisible condom is in each bag :D

Been reading up on Brazil today, how is the scene in their winter when it is deadly hot here back home? Be a great time to get out of TX. I don't mind a depleted LU just like I don't in Germany as Germany's worst LU on it's worst day beats our best lineup on our best day. I am sure Brazil is always full of quality. Looks like March thru June is the ideal time to go though with April and May being the best; if I read correctly.

[Pahllus Maximus]

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Archives/measure_indiv_Archives.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=1533&year=2017

Maybe FKK's on the beach. One day. New Hampshire doing the same.

[Sirioja]

Don't want to hijack education discussion but I am curious about this.

I am in a relationship but the next trip might take me into FKK land. I know I can go covered all the way and alleviate any of the fears when I get back but what if one elects to get uncovered BJ. What is the adequate amount of time after the last exposure to make sure one is STD free? Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

TIA.When I had girlfriends, I didn't need to go elsewhere, they were my best girls for love in bed. When you make them enjoy, taking care of them, most of women enjoy sex, some ask for, no headache heard. Orgasmus is a drug for women, they ask for, even some WGs in brothels, pressing on your head to make You finish them. No illusion with a girlfriend, but real sex with real love, far higher level than FKK land, even few WGs can give this illusion.

[Java Man]

I know, I am being cheap. I will probably just go for 5-7 days and do those clubs and get my feet wet,

Been reading up on Brazil today, how is the scene in their winter when it is deadly hot here back home? Be a great time to get out of TX. I don't mind a depleted LU just like I don't in Germany as Germany's worst LU on it's worst day beats our best lineup on our best day. I am sure Brazil is always full of quality. Looks like March thru June is the ideal time to go though with April and May being the best; if I read correctly.It's a day of travel, you'll lose 2 days, best to go for at least 10 days. LU doesn't really deplete, maybe during Christmas. Brazil winter is the rainy season, it also gets cool, you'll need a jacket at night. It has hailed in Sao Paulo some years ago. It's kinda funny seeing the locals all bundled up, like a snow storm was coming. LOL.

[Banana Boi]

Considering moving to Dusseldorf, Cologne, or Frankfurt for 6 months next Spring. Anyone know of a good rental property site in either city?

Is AirBNB legal in Germany?

[PokerWiesBaden]

Considering moving to Dusseldorf, Cologne, or Frankfurt for 6 months next Spring. Anyone know of a good rental property site in either city?

Is AirBNB legal in Germany?Airbnb is legal and used quite poplar.

But for 6 months, I would try out the short time apartments (kurzzeit wohnungen).

[Mongerer88]

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Archives/measure_indiv_Archives.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=1533&year=2017

Maybe FKK's on the beach. One day. New Hampshire doing the same.There is a libertarian lady legislator in New Hampshure who introduces this bill every once in a while.

Usually these bills, which have occurred in New Hampshire, Hawaii and California, do not get many votes. But the New Hampshire one damn near passed one year.

Through a legal drafting oversight, independent prostitution by one worker not involving public solicitation was actually legal in Rhode Island for a while, until the drafting oversight was corrected. It wasn't an earth-shattering event even when legal.

I doubt that the decriminalization bills ever pass, but who knows.

If they do, the more interesting question is what immediate "regulation" bills will immediately follow.

As a result, I further doubt that decriminalization will cause an abundance of FKKs to pop up. I strongly suspect that the state decriminalization bills that might pass, and the regulations that would follow, would make private consensual sex transactions legal, but continue to ban every associated activity. Making any organization and coordination illegal. Especially since the federal FOSTA / SESTA law would continue to apply to all states and effectively ban advertising when such advertising involves more than one lady.

What would be decriminalized would be the very same transactions that are not really subject to much law enforcement activity anyway, particularly in the more open-minded states. A guy booking an independent escort who does a suggestive but not explicit ad, and they meet and do the deed in private. Not exactly what FKK enthusiasts are looking for, but it does get an American guy laid in America, albeit often at a high hourly rate and produces both hits and misses when he sees someone new.

It is interesting that in Canada, when the courts decriminalized all prostitution, but put the decriminalization on hold until the legislature could enact new laws (which they did, going with the infamous Nordic Model that is not being enforced by the police in major cities), one of the Canadian legislators debating the new proposed laws specifically said that Canada should not end up with four-story megabrothels like in Germany.

So forgive my skepticism, but I don't think these proposed state decriminalization bills will pass, and if they do, I think the long-term direction afterward will still be toward private transactions out of the public eye.

[HungryStud101]

It's a day of travel, you'll lose 2 days, best to go for at least 10 days. LU doesn't really deplete, maybe during Christmas. Brazil winter is the rainy season, it also gets cool, you'll need a jacket at night. It has hailed in Sao Paulo some years ago. It's kinda funny seeing the locals all bundled up, like a snow storm was coming. LOL.I was glad I brought a jacket with me last trip. Usually I laugh at the Brasileiros all bundled up. This time I was one of them.

I was actually thinking of doing a fake business trip. Leave on a Sunday or Monday and come back Thursday or Friday. For the right airline ticket price I would do this. I would get off the lane fucking. Hit two different Clinicas a day. Bring home a GDP for the obligatory TDL and do one night of Scadelas.

[Triptogamont]

Considering moving to Dusseldorf, Cologne, or Frankfurt for 6 months next Spring. Anyone know of a good rental property site in either city?

Is AirBNB legal in Germany?I have used AirBnB many times in Germany with great success. Although never for so long. Assuming you can find someone renting for that much time, you should have no problems.

[Optimist]

BB. I have had really good experiences with AirBNB in Germany. Not sure if tenancy laws start to hit when a rental is six months. It will be clear when you try to book.

[Optimist]

I know others have similar experiences to mine. I tend, when I find a girl I like, to do multi hour rooms and repeat over a long period of time. The consequence of getting on so well with a working girl is that she stops "working" and then there is less sex and more "her". And the point then comes when the girl doesn't want me to go with other girls, professing a strange sort of jealousy. I become a bit like a imprisoned husband who then sneaks off to another club to fuck a different girl: irony.

It has happened again. My club companion asked me, as I was leaving, not to go with any other girl. Despite the fact that her situation currently makes sex a bit difficult for her. I shall have to have an interesting discussion when I see her. I didn't have time today as I was off to an incall followed by a gangbang

Of course, it can be interpreted differently, for example, unscrupulous girls taking advantage of a gullible nice guy.

I only write this in the spirit of sharing experiences and to entertain. I can handle it quite happily. These girls are crazy.

[BigBuddy69]

Beware, soon you'll start to speak french, drive like you're in a videogame and write some incoherent ramblings you'll be the only one to understand!

[Mr Ho]

I know others have similar experiences to mine. I tend, when I find a girl I like, to do multi hour rooms and repeat over a long period of time. The consequence of getting on so well with a working girl is that she stops "working" and then there is less sex and more "her". And the point then comes when the girl doesn't want me to go with other girls, professing a strange sort of jealousy. I become a bit like a imprisoned husband who then sneaks off to another club to fuck a different girl: irony.

It has happened again. My club companion asked me, as I was leaving, not to go with any other girl. Despite the fact that her situation currently makes sex a bit difficult for her. I shall have to have an interesting discussion when I see her. I didn't have time today as I was off to an incall followed by a gangbang

Of course, it can be interpreted differently, for example, unscrupulous girls taking advantage of a gullible nice guy.

I only write this in the spirit of sharing experiences and to entertain. I can handle it quite happily. These girls are crazy.I understand the fact that some working girl comes along in mongers life who get along very well to the extent where things you said happens and also even get to know her real name, sns account connection etc.

However, it is in most part or major part money.

People meet in all sort of circumstances, working girls too are humans, but I think it is important for mongers to understand it is in part the nature of business for working girls to play with mongers mind who are her regular.

I know some guys marry working girls, but I am not too sure if it is wise thing to do. On the other hand, there are some cases mongers got so much into working girls who play his head and it lead for such monger to murder her, so I think as a monger, it is important to draw line.

For me, what happens in FKK stays in FKK and in my sexual memory, period.

[Dubner32]

Optimist,

You are not alone. I have fallen into seeing a favorite girl for longer rooms at different clubs four times. Usually good, sometimes not.

No 1. (NRW) Was great for about a year, then wanted me to see only her at that club, then 'rolled me'. Sucker me, my bad; put down to (in) experience.

No 2. (A) Was also great for about a year, then wanted exclusivity from me at that club, then I found she was giving services I wanted to others but not me. (WTF?) I talked to her about it, she just didn't seem to understand it was a problem so stopped seeing her.

No 3. (Thailand) See this girl (early 30's) for about 6 weeks each year for my 'holidays'. She is tour guide, culture guide, f**k buddy and holiday companion. (Daily cost same as about 1 hour at Globe.) Absolutely no problem, great girl. I am trying to encourage her to 'adopt' a couple of other guys like me to fill out her income but she wants to maintain her hair salon business.

No 4. (NRW) Current Euro favorite. She just recently asked for exclusivity at club. May do it. There are lots of other clubs nearby. And will not get rolled.

Also have solved (A) vacancy by having 3 favorites at club. On a day visit see whoever of 3's there. Usually 2 - and a newbie. The girls know that, all being well, they will get good repeat business but that there is no point in asking for exclusivity. One has now asked to be 'first' each visit. I think there may be an unconscious desire to be 'special' for a regular.

I think, in Europe, this is the way to go if you enjoy familiarity with the woman for your pleasure but also some variation.

[McAdonis]

Sorry McA, I have no idea how much recent experience you have with US universities let alone US high schools to be making such sweeping, derogatory comments. Do you always make such generalizations?I screen, interview, and hire millenials (some from American universites, some not). Derogatory? I am not the only one saying it. https://www.businessinsider.de/grade-inflation-us-high-schools-2017-7?r=US&IR=T.

Secondly, 90% is just my rough, inexact estimate. I am not a statistician. And obviously, I haven't interviewed students from all 4000 universities and who knows how many high schools.

Third, just because a high school gives everyone A's does not mean the students do not learn. Some students, albeit a small minority, actually are passionate about learning. If they are interested in a subject, they will motivated to learn on their own. At some of the better service FKKs, you can expect a baseline level of service. However, at a tourist club, management does not impose any standards. But some WGs take it upon themselves to work at the higher service standard.



Perhaps Europe can figure out if they can attract some immigrant engineers? I guess that is the only reason that US has been forging ahead? We must be doing something right if most of the brightest people in the world want to come work here.Germany attract its fair share. Universities are free. But America is more friendly to entrepreneurs. In 1970, a young Taiwanese engineer graduated from Technishce Hochschule Darmstadt (not far from Sharks). He immigrated to the Silicon Valley and is now a billionaire. https://moneyinc.com/david-sun-and-john-tu/.


So, 90% of our schools and colleges are worthless and we have the top GDP and per capita among the larger industrialized nations because we have some immigrants. Yup, we will go with that. Please tell us if the percent of worthless grads and grade inflation is much less in Europe. Despite such exacting standards, why is EU falling behind? Hmm.Grade inflation is a worldwide trend, but it seems to be worse in the US due to profit-driven nature of American universities. How far has the EU fallen behind? Over what years has the US gained the most ground?

[HungryStud101]

I know others have similar experiences to mine. I tend, when I find a girl I like, to do multi hour rooms and repeat over a long period of time. The consequence of getting on so well with a working girl is that she stops "working" and then there is less sex and more "her". And the point then comes when the girl doesn't want me to go with other girls, professing a strange sort of jealousy. I become a bit like a imprisoned husband who then sneaks off to another club to fuck a different girl: irony.
.I know how you feel. This happens every so often. Last year I was so excited about a girl at GTs from a year earlier. I felt like I had climbed Mt Everest when I jumped in a car and drove 3-hours to GT to find my damsel. We spent multiple hours in the room with a non-DT BJ and LFK and one release by intercourse and a second release by HJ. Of course she went out to get me a beer for 5 minutes. We did cuddle a bit but. I can cuddle with my spaniel at home. There was probably more contact out of the room as she came to sit on my lap a few times to get me to room with her again. I loved all her attention but it is counter productive.

In Brasil is is much worse. I felt like I had to do a 3-sum if I wanted to see a new girl so the girl that wanted to be my girl friend would not become jealous. This is stupid.

[Pistons]

I screen, interview, and hire millenials (some from American universites, some not). Derogatory? I am not the only one saying it. https://www.businessinsider.de/grade-inflation-us-high-schools-2017-7?r=US&IR=T.

Secondly, 90% is just my rough, inexact estimate. I am not a statistician. And obviously, I haven't interviewed students from all 4000 universities and who knows how many high schools.

Third, just because a high school gives everyone A's does not mean the students do not learn. Some students, albeit a small minority, actually are passionate about learning. If they are interested in a subject, they will motivated to learn on their own. At some of the better service FKKs, you can expect a baseline level of service. However, at a tourist club, management does not impose any standards. But some WGs take it upon themselves to work at the higher service standard.

Germany attract its fair share. Universities are free. But America is more friendly to entrepreneurs. In 1970, a young Taiwanese engineer graduated from Technishce Hochschule Darmstadt (not far from Sharks). He immigrated to the Silicon Valley and is now a billionaire. https://moneyinc.com/david-sun-and-john-tu/.

Grade inflation is a worldwide trend, but it seems to be worse in the US due to profit-driven nature of American universities. How far has the EU fallen behind? Over what years has the US gained the most ground?Grade inflation is a private school dilemma usually. Rich parents have a tendency to get annoyed if their kids receive a bad grade. It also lowers the score for the students of the private school if none have the grades required to enter the good universities. And no country have so many private schools as usa. But correct me if I am wrong.

[Smoke Light]

I know others have similar experiences to mine. I tend, when I find a girl I like, to do multi hour rooms and repeat over a long period of time. The consequence of getting on so well with a working girl is that she stops "working" and then there is less sex and more "her". And the point then comes when the girl doesn't want me to go with other girls, professing a strange sort of jealousy. I become a bit like a imprisoned husband who then sneaks off to another club to fuck a different girl: irony.

It has happened again. My club companion asked me, as I was leaving, not to go with any other girl. Despite the fact that her situation currently makes sex a bit difficult for her. I shall have to have an interesting discussion when I see her. I didn't have time today as I was off to an incall followed by a gangbang

Of course, it can be interpreted differently, for example, unscrupulous girls taking advantage of a gullible nice guy.

I only write this in the spirit of sharing experiences and to entertain. I can handle it quite happily. These girls are crazy.Optimist,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have nearly identical stages of craziness with a single girl. The night I met her first time was more than a year ago. It was around midnight and I already had 2 or 3 rooms before her. Wasn't planning any action and just set there relaxing on the couch. She approached and started the usual "how are you" and "what's your name" dialog but I felt something special about her. Initially I had to decline the room, so she went to fuck other bears. I kept sitting and watching her for some time before our first session couple of hours later. Since then I have done countless rooms with her. I am heading back to see her again in October and in November. I have no explanation for my attraction to her. It's an addiction. I want to see her again and again and fuck her as much as I possibly can and watch her fuck other men. In my defense I must say she fits my specs 100%. Like one of these favorite kid's toys. Long hair, petite body, lusty eyes, playful tongue, beautiful boobies, cute and firm ass, pussy muscle that drives you insane, gorgeous legs and feet. We eat and drink together. She strips and dances for me in the room. She wears things that I like, such as tiny panties and high heel sandals with no ugly platforms. She already knows what I like and does it on her own, often to surprise me or to demo a new club outfit. The experience varies from day to day as everything else in life, I saw her laugh and cry, and be mad at me and be happy with me, but most of it is simple, uncomplicated fun. These girls are crazy, indeed. If anybody wants to join in October or November for an MMF session, PM me for details.

[Jmioffe]

Well, from this thread it seems Vegas is a bust. Does anyone have any experience with the Australian scene?

[Member #4581]

I already provided links before, but here it is:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2017&locations=US&start=2007

You can plot the trajectory of each country's per capital GDP.

Here they are, for a few select countries in US $.

DE: 41814 (2007), 44065 (2012), 44469 (2017).

France: 41508 (2007), 40874 (2012), 38476 (2017).

Italy: 37698 (2007), 34814 (2012), 31952 (2017).

NED: 51241 (2007), 49474 (2012), 48223 (2012).

UK: 50134 (2007), 41790 (2012), 39720 (2017).

USA: 48061 (2007), 51450 (2012), 59530 (2017).

In 2007, Germany's per capita was 87% that of US number. Now it is at 75%.

That is for the most successful economy among the large EU nations.

The PPP numbers show EU a bit better but not too much.

I will let you decide if that is EU falling backward (or forward on its face).

As for the rest of your slanders -- it is tough to argue when you have an agenda of US bashing for some personal reasons, and keep throwing one baseless charge after another. It is not even clear that you are in US now from what you write, and somehow you think you have a clear perspective to make a ridiculous statement such as "90% of US schools and universities are substandard".

[Mongerer88]

Well, from this thread it seems Vegas is a bust. Does anyone have any experience with the Australian scene?Here are a couple of links you might want to explore in researching Australia. The first is a review board, the second is an upscale escort service.

https://escorts.punterplanet.com/sydney-escorts

https://scarletblue.com.au

When you say that Vegas is a bust, I presume you mean its nearby legal brothels are a bust, which is correct.

I can list plenty of independent Vegas escorts that are knockouts and provide very GFE services, including bbbjtcim. They are simply very expensive.

Australia appears to have the same issues. The ISG Australia threads have plenty of reports on the legal brothels there, and it seems that all, or virtually all, of those reports describe fairly lackluster sessions that are CBJ. There are plenty of ISG reports of the low-dollar scene in Australia (usually massage parlors), and I have never been too impressed with what I have read.

The believable reviews on other review sites of knockout Australian ladies giving GFE services are often of independent escorts and ladies affiliated with the Scarlett Blue agency, which is very expensive.

There seem to be many places, including the USA, London, and Australia, where it appears a person has to spend a tremendous amount of money to obtain GFE from a young lady in the classic 8-10 range for looks and body. The decision for guys living there or traveling there, is whether to spend that much, or choose to travel to another destination where that same value can be obtained for less money. Thailand, for instance, seems to be a popular vacation spot for Australian mongers. I think it is always a mistake to simply say that a tremendous experience with a beautiful young lady is not available in Australia. It clearly is, if a guy spends a lot of money booking a Scarlet Blue provider.

[Akibono]

I already provided links before, but here it is:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2017&locations=US&start=2007

You can plot the trajectory of each country's per capital GDP.

Here they are, for a few select countries in US $.

DE: 41814 (2007), 44065 (2012), 44469 (2017)..Your stats are only partially true. These are average numbers. In the US almost all the wage growth is in the high earners. The lower 80% have not seen a real wage increase. Also, your numbers do not adjust for exchange rates, inflation or purchasing power parity. Thus, it is not so clear who is better off. Obviously, the drop in salaries is a bad thing.

[Java Man]

Well, from this thread it seems Vegas is a bust. Does anyone have any experience with the Australian scene?I've never been, but the Aussies I've met in Thailand say it sucks. That's why they go to Pattaya and / or Angeles, Philippines.

[Optimist]

Interesting responses on the dangers of longterm favourites. Often it seems it is just a girl taking it easy with a tolerant relaxed customer: like HungryStud101 says it ends up no different to cuddling the spaniel at home. With my current girl I even let her sleep! (briefly) and offered my whatsapp so she could call home (she has no phone at the moment). It is ok.But as she wants exclusivity I will disengage

But occasionally the danger has been more severe. I identify with Smoke Light when I think of one now retired girl. She always knew what was in my head before I did, had astonishing empathy (not just with me), she was the sexiest girl ever, and I willingly spent time with her when she was crippled with period pains or other problems. She was emotionally mixed up and all the more rewarding for it.

In both cases they really did not want me to go with other girls, claiming jealousy. I think it is more that they over time told me so much about themselves they were scared I would blab to other girls. This is understandable: my current favourite (to whom I have no attachment) would be thrown out of her club if I told the management certain things.

Dubner. Yes it is partly about the customer wanting to feel special. At first that seems to translate into better service, but then seems to tail off into a spaniel cuddling realm. Of course what is special is the fact we have euros, as Mr Ho. Says. Unlike Mr Ho, I do not keep the club world hermetically sealed. So I run more risks, but enjoy meeting girls outside FKK, but that is another story.

[Chongmal]

Interesting responses on the dangers of longterm favourites. Often it seems it is just a girl taking it easy with a tolerant relaxed customer: like HungryStud101 says it ends up no different to cuddling the spaniel at home. With my current girl I even let her sleep! (briefly) and offered my whatsapp so she could call home (she has no phone at the moment). It is ok.But as she wants exclusivity I will disengage

But occasionally the danger has been more severe. I identify with Smoke Light when I think of one now retired girl. She always knew what was in my head before I did, had astonishing empathy (not just with me), she was the sexiest girl ever, and I willingly spent time with her when she was crippled with period pains or other problems. She was emotionally mixed up and all the more rewarding for it.

In both cases they really did not want me to go with other girls, claiming jealousy. I think it is more that they over time told me so much about themselves they were scared I would blab to other girls. This is understandable: my current favourite (to whom I have no attachment) would be thrown out of her club if I told the management certain things.

Dubner. Yes it is partly about the customer wanting to feel special. At first that seems to translate into better service, but then seems to tail off into a spaniel cuddling realm. Of course what is special is the fact we have euros, as Mr Ho. Says. Unlike Mr Ho, I do not keep the club world hermetically sealed. So I run more risks, but enjoy meeting girls outside FKK, but that is another story.I like to have regulars. It's easier for me than having to explain my needs with a new lady each time. Unfortunately, at some point they decide they set the limits, schedule, etc. This is usually just before my feeling of content switch to, you know that you're a working girl and I'm a customer. If she is unwilling to meet my desires due to her thoughts on how things should work then she will see that there are many others willing to make me a regular client for a few months.

No matter what a lady says or does in this line of work, if she doesn't meet you outside the club without demanding money, doesn't take you inside her house for a coffee when you drop her off, little things that honestly allow you into their lives. Without these things, she is just working.

[Mongerer88]

Grade inflation is a private school dilemma usually. Rich parents have a tendency to get annoyed if their kids receive a bad grade. It also lowers the score for the students of the private school if none have the grades required to enter the good universities. And no country have so many private schools as usa. But correct me if I am wrong.You are not wrong, but it goes a little farther than that. The US funding for a lot of public schools come from real estate taxes. So schools in wealthier areas get more funding, which raises home prices, which results in more taxes (since those taxes are based on home values and people want to move their for the better public schools), creating a vicious cycle. If you pay $500,000 for a home that would cost $200,000 exclusive of this cycle so your kid can go to a better public school, he or she better get motherfucking A's in that school.

In the US, everything is about getting into the upper class in terms earnings and wealth. You read different statistics. Some say you need to be in the top 10 percent, some 15 percent, a few say 20 percent but I think the 20 percent scholars just wanted easier math. Most all of the income and wealth goes to the upper class. The best sex workers service guys in this upper class and charge very high rates. So high in fact that many of them become members of it for a period of time, although relatively few save enough of their earnings to stay in it after their careers are finished. I have walked some higher-end ladies I have seen in Vegas to the valet of the hotel and have been stunned when they said, do you like my cute little car, as a truly high-end sports car arrives.

So in fairness, parents realize that to have a good life in the US, a kid needs to get into this top 1-20 percent group (more likely top 1-10 percent group) to have a really good life. Soon the kids realize this too. This top percentage in the US has it better than any other group in the world. That causes a draw of immigrants, and hell it probably causes everyone to work harder and be more innovative, since the shifting of members among classes allows a few people from lower classes to move up. That movement doesn't happen as often as most economists would like, though.

Who can blame the best sex workers in the US from servicing the upper class and from charging the highest rates? It is a bit disingenuous for US guys who are members of the upper class and who earn a lot (the dentist in the prior post earning $225,000 in the US would not earn that much in Eastern Europe) to complain about the the high cost of top US sex workers. Why wouldn't the best US ladies charge guys who have a lot of income and wealth a very high rate? On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with US guys choosing to go abroad to get the same services from similar ladies for a fraction of the price.

And I am still convinced that the US will never allow immigration that would reduce the prices. There is a steady stream of northeast guys who travel to Montreal, primarily via car, to get these prices and services instead of paying the exorbitant high-end call girl prices in the US northeast. But many of us were shocked to discover that Montreal girls rarely tour the US because US border patrol was tracking website photos and schedules to identify them, searching their luggage for evidence, and confronting them. Many reported accepting voluntary bans from further entry into the US in exchange for the quiet termination of the investigations. But the draw for higher rates per hour was what drew them to tour. And it is the existence of that "upper-class"group in the US, and the benefits it produces, that generates everything from grade inflation to Montreal ladies trying to cross the borders work in the US on tours.

[Bfsie]

Of course, it can be interpreted differently, for example, unscrupulous girls taking advantage of a gullible nice guy.

If you had at least 3 sessions in 3 different days with total time of at least 3 hours with her before this session and she didn't say she didn't want you to see other girls before this session, I think that most likely she really meant what she said and has romantic feeling to you, assuming that she knows you live in EU.

In general, if a monger is better than the WG, which can often happen in RTC or AO clubs where the girls usually don't have the top optics, the trend of the romantic relationship between the monger and the girl can often be uptrend, that is, more time the monger spends with her, more romantic the relationship can get, despite the age difference because many WGs look for father figure. If the WG is better than the monger, the trend of the relationship is not going to go anywhere and the monger is hopeless LOL. If the WG is roughly the same as the monger, it will be hard to say whether the relationship is heading upward and the relationship development will be very slow even if he eventually has some edge over her.

From what I read on ISG (mainly GT and FKK chat threads), I think you (whom I respect and admire in this regard) are one of very few posters who are looking for real and true relationship with the WGs which usually requires the involved mongers to lower the optic level of the WGs they look for in order to achieve that. It is definitely possible for a monger to have real and true romantic relationships with a WG as long as he is willing to lower the optic level of the WG he is looking for to at least his level. But most mongers don't want to do that, which is understandable, and consequently and obviously they get all the fake and fantasy relationships with WGs.

[Delta Indigo]

I will let you decide if that is EU falling backward (or forward on its face).

As for the rest of your slanders -- it is tough to argue when you have an agenda of US bashing for some personal reasons, and keep throwing one baseless charge after another. It is not even clear that you are in US now from what you write, and somehow you think you have a clear perspective to make a ridiculous statement such as "90% of US schools and universities are substandard".Hey Buddy,

I know where you are coming from, I have heard my share of gratuitous USA bashing, and I do think the US has some unique strengths that I hope are not destroyed by Mr. T's self serving agenda. However somethings noted by other members are valid points.

There is a wide variation in the quality of university education in the US. I transferred from a lesser University of California campus to UCLA, and the quality of education and effort needed to achieve the same grade was enormously different and this is in the same University of California system. There is a huge difference between universities in the US.

Furthermore the point about grade inflation is also valid, in the mid 90's there was a NYT newspaper article about grade inflation at Stanford, the median grade was an A- and if you dropped a class or got less than a see you would repeat it and it was wiped of your transcript. The median grade at UCLA was a be- and see+ in lower division courses. Maybe the bottom half at UCLA was worse but the top half at UCLA was as good as the top half at Stanford. So I think my A-/ B+ GPA from UCLA was worth a lot more than an A- GPA from Stanford. The Ivy League is notorious for grade inflation as well.

Alot of my older friends say that grading standards were far tougher in the olden days. The grades seem to be flowing. I think the basic premise behind university education in the US is great and unique compared to most systems.

1. The emphasis on critical thinking, an enormous weak point in Sweden were people are taught to obey the teacher's line and criticism is strongly discouraged.

2. The multi-disciplinarian approach to education, I love the fact that you have to take courses in different areas and people do get a broader education in this system. The European retort to this is that their high schools are better so they don't need this. Well even if their high schools are better, I think a bad university is far better than a good high school and I went to an elite high school.

Nevertheless a lot of McAdonis' points are valid about the wide variation in US universities and about grade inflation. I think elite universities like UCLA in the US are second to none, however there are a lot of universities in the US that are a lot worse.

[Samplerr]

I already provided links before, but here it is:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2017&locations=US&start=2007There are other important economic metrics besides GDP, like exports for example. On a per capita basis Germany exports 4 times as much as the USA.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/these-are-the-worlds-biggest-exporters

Most, if not all other western countries, have a better work life balance than the USA.

http://cepr.net/publications/reports/no-vacation-nation-2013

[Kuni042]

This only is true for goods. And leaves services out of the question! E. g. Amazon, Google, Facebook, Accenture, Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Paypal, etc etc.


..... On a per capita basis Germany exports 4 times as much as the USA.

[Member #4636]

Mid November I want to visit one of above clubs. Day will probably be Thursday. I don't care much about the food or spa facilities but the LU and availability of the girls.

Which one would you recommend?

Thanks.

[Optimist]

Bfsie. You make good points. Yes, I look for relationship, but only in the sense that I look to engage with the person providing the sex. Not looking for love or life. On the optics points, I have found, in my very limited experiences of this, that the girls with best optics can be the ones: probably because I tend only to choose the slimmest and nice looking girls.

[Optimist]

There has been a lot of discussion about service levels and charging. I bang on about my unwillingness to pay more than 50 for 30 minutes to include DATY and DFK. I do not want to compromise on this and so far have not done so, but it has been getting more difficult.

I just want to report for the encouragement of others like me that with a little patience there is no need to pay the Precious Princess prices asked by some girls for what used to be the basic service.

Today I met a girl new to me. I was attracted by her odd face, nice figure, so optics wise, ok. But in the room, during two sessions lasting 2. 5 hours I enjoyed DFK, she had two orgasms, gave anal, took the deepest penetration possible, invited me to her birthday party, did CIM, and other services. She also later shared her meal with me. Total cost was 170 euros.

She was not stupid. When we got to the room she asked to smoke a cigarette and then chatted with me. After fifteen minutes I realised she was sizing me up (personality wise) and she gave her verdict on me. Only then did she start to get down to work. It was fifteen minutes well spent by me.

She had just before me turned down a huge huge guy as she was worried about him on top of her, and also thought that guys who don't take care of themselves might not take care of her. Another girl in the club was repeatedly refusing guys who she thought were going to be hard fuckers and not respectful.

I will post more detail on the club in the appropriate thread in due course.

[McAdonis]

In 2007, Germany's per capita was 87% that of US number. Now it is at 75%.Used the same site as you. It actually allows you to plot countries side-by-side. My findings tell a different story than yours. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2017&locations=US-DE&start=2007.

My understanding is PPP should be used for GDP per capita comparisons between countries, so relative costs and inflation can be accounted for.

In 2007, DE's GDP per capita (PPP) was 75.8 percent. In 2017, that figure was 85.1 percent. Even though DE outperformed USA on this metric, I believe USA is better positioned for the long-term future. One issue is DE has an aging population. The other is that culturally, they have too many concerns about data privacy, which could hamper the ability to lead in artificial intelligence. Hopefully, nobody accuses me of Germany bashing.


As for the rest of your slanders -- it is tough to argue when you have an agenda of US bashing for some personal reasons, and keep throwing one baseless charge after another. It is not even clear that you are in US now from what you write, and somehow you think you have a clear perspective to make a ridiculous statement such as "90% of US schools and universities are substandard".Nobody else seemed to negatively react to my statement. Not even Chongmal who identifies himself as a patriotic American. He sees a deficiency that potentially hampers his country's future competitiveness on the world stage, and as a patriot, he voices his concern.

[McAdonis]

Grade inflation is a private school dilemma usually. Rich parents have a tendency to get annoyed if their kids receive a bad grade.At least according to this source, you are correct:

"When the team analyzed the data, they found grade inflation was most prevalent in wealthier, white schools and private schools. Private schools, in fact, had cases of grade inflation at three times the rate of public schools. " https://www.businessinsider.de/grade-inflation-us-high-schools-2017-7?r=US&IR=T.

[Jmioffe]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it does look expensive.


Here are a couple of links you might want to explore in researching Australia. The first is a review board, the second is an upscale escort service.

https://escorts.punterplanet.com/sydney-escorts

https://scarletblue.com.au

When you say that Vegas is a bust, I presume you mean its nearby legal brothels are a bust, which is correct.

I can list plenty of independent Vegas escorts that are knockouts and provide very GFE services, including bbbjtcim. They are simply very expensive.

Australia appears to have the same issues. The ISG Australia threads have plenty of reports on the legal brothels there, and it seems that all, or virtually all, of those reports describe fairly lackluster sessions that are CBJ. There are plenty of ISG reports of the low-dollar scene in Australia (usually massage parlors), and I have never been too impressed with what I have read.

The believable reviews on other review sites of knockout Australian ladies giving GFE services are often of independent escorts and ladies affiliated with the Scarlett Blue agency, which is very expensive.

There seem to be many places, including the USA, London, and Australia, where it appears a person has to spend a tremendous amount of money to obtain GFE from a young lady in the classic 8-10 range for looks and body. The decision for guys living there or traveling there, is whether to spend that much, or choose to travel to another destination where that same value can be obtained for less money. Thailand, for instance, seems to be a popular vacation spot for Australian mongers. I think it is always a mistake to simply say that a tremendous experience with a beautiful young lady is not available in Australia. It clearly is, if a guy spends a lot of money booking a Scarlet Blue provider.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it does look expensive. One caught my eye for 600 AUD, or $430 USD.

"I can list plenty of independent Vegas escorts that are knockouts and provide very GFE services, including bbbjtcim. " Please do!

[TeaInTheSun]

Mid November I want to visit one of above clubs. Day will probably be Thursday. I don't care much about the food or spa facilities but the LU and availability of the girls.

Which one would you recommend?

Thanks.Hey Pksimar69,

It's a complicated answer according what you are looking for. At Sharks you will find more options o types of girl but maybe you have to be ready to pay more than regular for a GFE. Oase it's not quite different LU but less variety and you will find more chances to get a memorable GFE paying mostly basic service. No matter what happen, enjoy!

[Pistons]

The Great OSHO speaks:

https://youtu.be/s4h6UspyAlU

https://youtu.be/jQ6QsRwoIGc

[Member #4636]

Hey Pksimar69,

It's a complicated answer according what you are looking for. At Sharks you will find more options o types of girl but maybe you have to be ready to pay more than regular for a GFE. Oase it's not quite different LU but less variety and you will find more chances to get a memorable GFE paying mostly basic service. No matter what happen, enjoy!Thanks for your reply TeaInTheSun!

To be honest I went to Sharks once but I was disappointed and left after an hour. It was so crowded (about 8 pm Friday) and I didn't like it, left without a session but promised myself to give another chance. Oase looks like fun and it is meant to be the most famous club but I feel it is going to be full of tourists looking for rabbit fucks. GFE is desired so I think I will stick to Oase this time.

[Banana Boi]

BB. I have had really good experiences with AirBNB in Germany. Not sure if tenancy laws start to hit when a rental is six months. It will be clear when you try to book.I'm by no means an airbnb expert but I'm not even sure if I can book over 30 days anywhere on airbnb. If I go the airbnb route I wouldn't stay anywhere more than a week unless some place offers an incredible monthly discount.

Booking 6 months would only be for a much better valued apartment from a realtor to compensate for the inflexibility of having to stay in the same place / city.

[Pistons]

Used the same site as you. It actually allows you to plot countries side-by-side. My findings tell a different story than yours. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2017&locations=US-DE&start=2007.

My understanding is PPP should be used for GDP per capita comparisons between countries, so relative costs and inflation can be accounted for.

In 2007, DE's GDP per capita (PPP) was 75.8 percent. In 2017, that figure was 85.1 percent. Even though DE outperformed USA on this metric, I believe USA is better positioned for the long-term future. One issue is DE has an aging population. The other is that culturally, they have too many concerns about data privacy, which could hamper the ability to lead in artificial intelligence. Hopefully, nobody accuses me of Germany bashing.Agreed on the PPP, but median income should used instead of averages, due to the outliers messing with the figures.

There are people working with improving the European IT sector, but the main problem is the divided markets and all the different languages, while in countries like USA and China they have an initial market which is way larger. And that gives startups and investors in startups an extra incentive. The fragmented European market are playing with a larger handicap. So the work needs to come from EU regulators to reduce legal barriers, and English might need to become the standard on internet all across Europe (right huh? But the fragmented media advertisement market doesn't help either. But we can hope.

The ageing population of Germany seems to be fixed by immigration. Although that is a double edged sword. Then again, the same might soon be said about USA. My personal view on it is that OSHO is right, the priests are to blame for the lower fertility rates. But the world leaders want a reduced population, so here we are in the middle of the funnel.

[RyansBum]

Gents,

I have only one night in Dusseldorf. Do you recommend Oceans or Dolce Vita?

[Delta Indigo]

Gents,

I have only one night in Dusseldorf. Do you recommend Oceans or Dolce Vita?Ocean's have much better facilities and a better lineup in my opinion. There is a bit of upselling there but most people agree with me that the service levels in Dolce Vita are not great. Around half my sessions in DV have been good, not great but good, but you should do a lot better in Oceans.

Even before the new law, blow jobs as god intended were not a given in Dolce Vita.

[Kuni042]

Generally, it depends on the day. Just if it is between Oceans or DV, I doesn't. LOL. Oceans is much nearer to airport and messe. SO it should always be a better selection at Oceans. But I found even Oceans deserted last Tuesday. But I had a really good time at LR and GT.


Gents,

I have only one night in Dusseldorf. Do you recommend Oceans or Dolce Vita?

[Jmioffe]

I've been struck by the fact that for most of the friends I know who do this, WGs are their main vice.

Contrary to the stereotype of the cigar-chomping, hard-drinking fat type A who goes out for hookers and blow after making a big score, most of the guys I know in this hobby indulge almost exclusively on pussy, to what could be considered a boring extent.

No gambling, no excessive alcohol consumption, no drug addiction, no chain-smoking, no overeating, sometimes not even meat, no abusive relationships. Sure, they spend their money on real estate, or cars, or clothes otherwise, but those are hardly vices. How about you? Do you indulge in other sins as much as you do sex?

[Delta Indigo]

I've been struck by the fact that for most of the friends I know who do this, WGs are their main vice.

Contrary to the stereotype of the cigar-chomping, hard-drinking fat type A who goes out for hookers and blow after making a big score, most of the guys I know in this hobby indulge almost exclusively on pussy, to what could be considered a boring extent.

No gambling, no excessive alcohol consumption, no drug addiction, no chain-smoking, no overeating, sometimes not even meat, no abusive relationships. Sure, they spend their money on real estate, or cars, or clothes otherwise, but those are hardly vices. How about you? Do you indulge in other sins as much as you do sex?I hesitate revealing too much. But I certainly drink an awful lot, otherwise I am financially quite organized and have no abusive relationships. I certainly love red meat, I have been known to smoke in bars and fkks, but that is about it. I am in pretty good shape and work out a lot, so I am not a fat type A. But I think by your criteria I do have a lot of vices.

In Europe though, not all places but in many, people drink an awful lot more than in America, so this would not been seen as being as bad as it is in America, where in my opinion people are light drinkers.

[HungryStud101]

I've been struck by the fact that for most of the friends I know who do this, WGs are their main vice.

That's very good.

I like to dress up like a priest and bowl for money on the weekends. I order drinks, and pinch waitresses in the ass but that's about the extent of it. And oh yeah, I'm always looking to get to a hobby destination and play with service providers.

[McAdonis]

Contrary to the stereotype of the cigar-chomping, hard-drinking fat type A who goes out for hookers and blow after making a big score, most of the guys I know in this hobby indulge almost exclusively on pussy, to what could be considered a boring extent.

No gambling, no excessive alcohol consumption, no drug addiction, no chain-smoking, no overeating, sometimes not even meat, no abusive relationships.Depends on how you define hobbyist. When the monger is addicted to this hobby, I mean truly addicted, then I would agree with you. Some people neglect friends, family, careers, and dedicate themselves to the hobby. They've re-prioritized their entire lives.

Others not so much. Would you consider a local who lives 15 minutes from the club, but only mongers once every three months a "hobbyist"? Even some of the locals who seem to attend 4-5 times a week or the Dutch, Belgian, French who attend nearly every weekend, sometimes don't appear to be "addicted". Meaning their number one priority in the club is not to session WGs. At many of the higher entry clubs like GT, LR, and Babylon, beer is included. So some men just go to meet up with friends and drink. They will session a WG once every few visits. There are regulars who I have never seen take a room (one is even a local Asian guy who gambles and drinks mostly by himself).

Have you not seen the gambling machines? Have you not heard people here complain about the smoke? One of the WGs I know is taking a break now. She wants to quit drugs, but she claims it is impossible because she has too many clients that want to snort or smoke with her.