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Muzein Wallah! I feel it in my liver, Sayyid Chongmal. She went out of her way to insult you. It is this kind of attitude that keeps me away from Europe. Although in Brazil there are no FKKs, it is quite normal to meet a girl in a sex club and carry on dating her outside. None of this phony superiority from the chicks.
In general I think sex is a great way to start a relationship. Any red flags, any hint of selfishness, any major incompatibility, you will see it right there -- before committing too much. (Although this did not work for you Chongmal: you put in a lot of cash before the mask came off!)I wasn't trying to start a relationship, I was pay g a lady for sex. I got exactly what I wanted from her, sex acts purchased in 30 minute blocks. That day on the street I was simply being courteous to someone I recognized. I was surprised by her reaction. I'm not a 25 year old Adonis, or even a 55 year old Adonis. I'm not a super Mr Lover Lover like some men here claim to be. I'm a short, slightly overweight, balding male in my 50's. The women's only attraction to me is my wallet, cleanliness and personality. I know my personality gets distorted by the thickness of my wallet. I do realize these women are only mine when I'm paying for their company or figuratively when expressing my fondness for her, as in "she is my favorite lady at the moment" and if my favorite is reading this she knows who she is.
As for the lady I saw on the street, we didn't see much of each other after that day. I still think about her occasionally but don't think I would know her if I saw her in the club today. She has been replace several time and I'm OK with that.
This hobby is fun, but it needs to be also kept in a sandbox and seen in context of being quite an artificial set up: where else do have dozens of half or fully naked beautiful women constantly propositioning you? It reverses everything.Well, only in today's societal context is this true. Change certain basic criteria, and you can have a paradigm change. It won't be exactly like in an FKK, but the world outside of the sandbox can move towards it. Future technology can be the cause of such paradigm changes. Politics another. And most likely we have slowly started changing the paradigm already. But it seems to take time. It changes faster in some countries than others (rate of religious population). And there can be different stages on the paradigm change that makes one whole paradigm change seem like several paradigm changes. While in reality one leads naturally to the other. Capitalism can even correlate to one such thing.
I find some of this this talk about free thinking and paradigm shifts a bit ironic. For sure the common paradigm is that hookers are just hookers who are after your money and nothing more. While this is the case more often than not, a real free thinker would realize that this is not always the case. Real free thinkers would realize that working girls come in all varieties and that some are able to manage friendships and relationships throughout the entire clientele to personal relationship spectrum. If this were not the case then there would not be cases where working girls have quit the job to be with a former client. If WGs in clubs were just WGs, then these messages from WGs that I have never sessioned with must be a figment of my imagination.
A true free thinker would realize that such things are fluid. A true free thinker would realize that his own limitations often creates his reality because he cannot see over the horizon. A true free thinker would give the WG a chance to be a WG as well as a real human being.
P.S. I hate that these debates have made me write such liberal, love-the-world explanations that should really just be common sense and common decency.The definition of a working girl or a hooker is just that. A definition. Framed negatively, for a certain purpose. We can all instead create our own word for it instead if we want, but by even thinking in terms of hookers and working girls, one gives the power over to the persons who pursues the same negative framing as the coiner of the terms. The historical biological context to it would be that taking resources in trade for sex is the natural way. So there shouldn't be the need for any framing of any term for it at all. Neither positively nor negatively. It should speak for itself.
If we want to get nerdy on framing here. Look up 'action framing' in this article:
http://comphacker.org/comp/engl338/files/2012/08/framing-and-public-relations.pdf
Common sense is also fluid. And this common sense fluidity is at the core of what a paradigm change really is.
FKK is merely a type of brothel, nothing more, nothing less. As good as FKK is, it merely place where you get your lust taken care of and brothel is not a place to communicate deeply with prostitutes, it is bit like going to restaurants or hospital or where-ever and expect waitress or nurse to take care of you more further than they are occupationally expected to do.
It is surprising that some mongers seek to communicate or practice social skill in FKK, but it is asking for wrong thing in wrong place or asking too much going beyond what prostitutes are expected to do, then I realize how crazy it has become for human society where some seek for such relation in brothel. Prostitutes has their own private lives too that they want to protect and that is why they are tuting, so I think it is polite to stay out of private lives of prostitutes.I think a problem here is that most girls who make money in these FKK's are on a different mindset than most men are. And they don't really think of it as more than an ATM. There is therefore a problem with the feng shui at the FKK's. And this can cause most of the issues you have pointed at in your posts. Too bad for them really, since I deffinately believe that if the girls in general had been smarter about this, then there would be far more repeating customers. Both for the clubs and for the girls.
If I could change something, I would have more girls smile and say Hi in the club as we keep bumping into each other in such a small space. Not because I feel I am entitled to it inside the club but it is simple manners and good customer service. The good ones do, the lousy service providers don't.
While I deffinately agree with you, I do see why girls can get tired of this constant greeting. Even I as a guy after just a few days in a row in FKK's start getting tired of smiling and greeting so many girls around every corner in an FKK. And a few girls have over the years even called me rude for looking through them as ether too. Maybe I am lucky, but in this closed off polygamous box the clubs are, greetings must be some of the hardest parts. Especially with all the sales impulses going on. Women does seem to be better at such multitasking than guys are, but still I bet it can make them loose focus sometimes.
Keep in mind, many girls do not even say Hi or smile back inside the club an hour after you had just fucked her. They walk by and look through you as if you are ether.
If I could change something, I would have more girls smile and say Hi in the club as we keep bumping into each other in such a small space. Not because I feel I am entitled to it inside the club but it is simple manners and good customer service. The good ones do, the lousy service providers don't.Then no need they return to me. I also judge girls behavior, not only for introducing social time or in bed, but how they behave after I pay, most are smiling, some with sweet caresses after room. Behavior is more interesting for me than sexual performances.
Nice points everybody. Yes it is a business relationship, but it is one where there is a direct personal interchange, and it is very easy, if both sides allow it to happen, for a personal relationship to develop. The range and depth will vary enormously but is almost inevitable if one repeats several times with any girl. Because it is business based, the girl, as Takedown says, gives the man much more of a chance than is likely in her non-business life where peer group and social norms pressures mean she would only meet with men of similar age and nationality and culture. In clubs ths girls get money, worship, and meet interesting men (as well as the opposite).
But as Nick says, once human relationships develop, the situation gets much more complicated and as Mr Ho implies, illusions can be mistaken for reality.
As Takedown says, we need to accept that the WG can choose to be seen just as a WG or as a human being. Like in any walk of life. Common decency and common sense.
Nice points everybody. Yes it is a business relationship, but it is one where there is a direct personal interchange, and it is very easy, if both sides allow it to happen, for a personal relationship to develop. The range and depth will vary enormously but is almost inevitable if one repeats several times with any girl. Because it is business based, the girl, as Bfsie says, gives the man much more of a chance than is likely in her non-business life where peer group and social norms pressures mean she would only meet with men of similar age and nationality and culture. In clubs the girls get money, worship, and meet interesting men (as well as the opposite).
But as Nick says, once human relationships develop, the situation gets much more complicated and as Mr Ho implies, illusions can be mistaken for reality.
As Takedown says, we need to accept that the WG can choose to be seen just as a WG or as a human being. Like in any walk of life. Common decency and common sense.
Thanks for the level headed post Optimist, as always.
Found out something today from a WG. Apparently a brand new club will be opening in the Dutch-German border town of Emmerich. Best part is the name, Golden Day. I have no idea if related to GT but I'm sure they are looking to siphon off some of that Dutch business. For now, it will be a 30 euro entry club.
CaneUppHosAss
02-09-19, 18:33
While I deffinately agree with you, I do see why girls can get tired of this constant greeting. Even I as a guy after just a few days in a row in FKK's start getting tired of smiling and greeting so many girls around every corner in an FKK. And a few girls have over the years even called me rude for looking through them as ether too. Maybe I am lucky, but in this closed off polygamous box the clubs are, greetings must be some of the hardest parts. Especially with all the sales impulses going on. Women does seem to be better at such multitasking than guys are, but still I bet it can make them loose focus sometimes.Hello Sir,
Yes, an unending sequence of acknowledge and greets can be tedious and weigh you down but a simple smile should be easy enough-- one hopes.
If we are bumping into each 10 times in 5 minutes, it is not required to say and do much every time but if it happens a couple of times a day, a simple flash of smile will not hurt.
In any case, my thought is that those are things a monger can reasonably expect inside a club but outside the club our mutual privacy must be paramount unless there is some other understanding between the two parties involved.
My 2 cents.
Thank you.
CaneUppHosAss
02-09-19, 18:42
You make a good point about the girls covering their faces. I always have a question for the girls who send 1 k per month home, who take 3 months a year off work and spend it back home, who buy a beautiful new house with cash, who have small children that stay in their home country with their grandparents, and who say there families don't know what they do for work. Do you really think what you do is a secret from your parents. Do you think your parents believe a waitress, bar tender, hotel maid, etc makes 10 k per month in Germany? I tell them it's not a secret it's denial. The secret is that their parents are o with them working as a prostitute as long as they are providing for their families back home.
Some ladies are super protective of their real identities. Others, after a couple meetings will share a look inside their life with you. I personally take it with a grain of salt because the one thing I've learned via this hobby, some of the greatest illusionists in the world work in Sauna Clubs as prostitutes.Hello Sir,
American Psychology Association talks about power of pretending. Several researchers have done work on this topic. Dr Paul Harris wrote a book called work of imagination. He discusses this in the context of children and role play, role play vs pretending but essentially while even a 3 year old may not have any understanding of theory of mind, the child is able to use role play to predict the actions and reactions and thought processes of others. I think this concept can probably be extended to the situation you described which is that the role play that happens between a working girl and her family in Romania and pretending to not know.
You make a good point about the girls covering their faces. I always have a question for the girls who send 1 k per month home, who take 3 months a year off work and spend it back home, who buy a beautiful new house with cash, who have small children that stay in their home country with their grandparents, and who say there families don't know what they do for work. Do you really think what you do is a secret from your parents. Do you think your parents believe a waitress, bar tender, hotel maid, etc makes 10 k per month in Germany? I tell them it's not a secret it's denial. The secret is that their parents are o with them working as a prostitute as long as they are providing for their families back home.
Some ladies are super protective of their real identities. Others, after a couple meetings will share a look inside their life with you. I personally take it with a grain of salt because the one thing I've learned via this hobby, some of the greatest illusionists in the world work in Sauna Clubs as prostitutes.For sure, Romanian families prefer to play blind, enjoying the fast money. Which other job could make so much fast money? Modeling? But not many FKK girls are model look.
Thanks to all for their great posts.
This summer I have two weeks of free time and I thought it would be fun to tour Germany and Switzerland just to visit FKK clubs.
Having been to several clubs in Berlin and Stuttgart I enjoyed the experience but am curious about the large clubs.
Any suggestions are welcome and I plan to travel between cities by train.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the level headed post Optimist, as always.
Found out something today from a WG. Apparently a brand new club will be opening in the Dutch-German border town of Emmerich. Best part is the name, Golden Day. I have no idea if related to GT but I'm sure they are looking to siphon off some of that Dutch business. For now, it will be a 30 euro entry club.Interesting. The Dutch have up till now found it hard to set up thriving clubs (resulting I believe to the way that they are taxed, which discriminates against establishments with many girls: I expect other members know the detail). If this club can get started then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws, which will give an edge over the German clubs.
Interesting. The Dutch have up till now found it hard to set up thriving clubs (resulting I believe to the way that they are taxed, which discriminates against establishments with many girls: I expect other members know the detail). If this club can get started then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws, which will give an edge over the German clubs.There have been clubs in Emmerich before (Fun Garden, Lekker Ding), but they always struggle. Schuttdorf is near the border as well and Golden Dreams always struggled to get decent line ups, until they left. Just 20 miles down the A3 from Emmerich you have SC Venus and Gallardo (previously Marisol), all of which struggle to get anything going that resembles the bigger clubs (although Venus can be nice for a few hours). Simply put, (I think) that far north there aren't enough people to make clubs with many girls successful. Neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands. If you are travelling from the bigger Ducth cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), you'll be on the road for a while anyway and the difference between Bruggen and Emmerich won't matter. Believe me, I do this a few times each month and normally I breeze past Emmerich and Hamminkeln towards clubs I want to visit. Or I cross the border at Venlo (smack in between Yin Yang and Golden Time).
Pahllus Maximus
02-09-19, 23:40
It is trite to say WG are humans with a wide spectrum of fluidly changing interests. Common sense for sure. However, most women do not naturally spread their legs for cash several times in an evening with random guys. This centers around their desire for money and the male urge to hump pretty things. Some girls blow the cash on BS as fast as they make it. Others save. Some support their families that are poor. It is easy to forget that large parts of Europe are very poor and quite isolated. For girls there, marriage and children is the only real path. The big cities beckon with excitement and money and a bit of adventure. It is easy to see the attraction. Young women can be promiscuous and have real biological sexual urges, and WG's tell me that they get used to lots of cock and tend to miss it after a break. Others not.
One could generalize ad infinitum. This is an ancient trade that probably goes back to the start of modern humans over 40,000 years ago. Having said that, the paradigm shift of Piston's has some DNA barriers in the form of behavior and plenty of powerful social and economic vested interests in perpetuating reproduction of economic units for profit, whether by tax or charging money for stuff, or selling data as in the modern economy.
In the meantime, how wonderful is to have clean clubs, safety, a huge range of eye candy you can screw for a relatively modest cost and without complications? It is completely consensual in places like Germany, just good clean fun. The outrage is that men get to have the fun of this platter and women don't as they are not interested in a bar full of men to screw them. They are alive to the fact FKK's and prostitution in general directly competes with their limited time window to snag a man and weakens the availability of commitment to a long term subscription when men can buy ala carte.
It's just how the tension is.
TankTank123
02-09-19, 23:42
.... then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws,Why will it not be subject to German Law, if it is to be located in Emmerich which is in Germany?
I was asked a couple of times on ISG why most of the FKK WGs are from Romania (while vast majority of the WGs in real German brothels are non-Romanian-and-Bulgarian) and I didn't answer the question at that time due to my respect to FKK fans here. Since we are talking about the rudeness of FKK WGs and I have some time these days, I think that now it is right time to give my view of this question which I think helps understanding difficult work FKK WGs face.
FKK club environment is much more DEGRADING environment for the WGs than the environment of real brothels which I am a frequent customer of. WGs are human beings and they have their dignity too despite their line of work. I often had small talk with the WGs in the brothels about FKK club and almost all of them said that working in FKK club is just too low for them, meaning it is like in meat market and the WGs are treated like animals. They usually also said that 50 euro for half hour is also too low for them and they have to work long hours a day if they work in FKK.
So if FKK WGs are unfriendly or rude, we should understand they have difficult work not only physically, but also mentally and psychologically.
In my opinion since I know Dutch culture a little after many years living in Netherlands, Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutch will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by German in terms of WG's service, because Dutch culture is very liberal unlike German culture and Dutch people in general are much more liberal than German people. So if a club is managed by Dutch, the club culture would usually be liberal and the Dutch managers would use hands-off approach to the WG's service and this usually means lousy WG's service.
I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference.
There have been clubs in Emmerich before (Fun Garden, Lekker Ding), but they always struggle. Schuttdorf is near the border as well and Golden Dreams always struggled to get decent line ups, until they left. Just 20 miles down the A3 from Emmerich you have SC Venus and Gallardo (previously Marisol), all of which struggle to get anything going that resembles the bigger clubs (although Venus can be nice for a few hours). Simply put, (I think) that far north there aren't enough people to make clubs with many girls successful. Neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands. If you are travelling from the bigger Ducth cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), you'll be on the road for a while anyway and the difference between Bruggen and Emmerich won't matter. Believe me, I do this a few times each month and normally I breeze past Emmerich and Hamminkeln towards clubs I want to visit. Or I cross the border at Venlo (smack in between Yin Yang and Golden Time).Well hopefully they do it right. 30 euro entry to start helps bring in some locals. They're giving girls 2 months of free entry. With the recent closure of Penelope and soon to be suspension of Yin Yang, perhaps the stars will align for them to recruit some talent. Considering their location, perhaps the best case scenario is GoldenTime if it is German run. The worst case scenario is perhaps Acapulco Velbert.
I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference.I have been to YY and the service was the same as I received in German FKK's except nobody tried to upsell BBBJ at YY. It was 50 E with BBBJ & DATY!
Thanks to all for their great posts.
This summer I have two weeks of free time and I thought it would be fun to tour Germany and Switzerland just to visit FKK clubs.
Having been to several clubs in Berlin and Stuttgart I enjoyed the experience but am curious about the large clubs.
Any suggestions are welcome and I plan to travel between cities by train.
Thanks again.In Frankfurt you can travel by train close to Sharks, Oase & Mainhatten but you will need a cab to get to the club from the train stop. These clubs have a lot of upsell so expect to pay 100 E for 1/2 HR with BBBJ.
I prefer the somewhat smaller clubs up North in the Cologne area such as Babylon Koln & Samya. 1/2 HR with BBBJ is 50 E for most girls. Further north to Dusseldorf Area I liked Acapulco (40 E girls) & GoldenTime (50 E girls) . On the way to Switzerland I stopped at FKK Sakura in Stuttgart. It was a nice club and girls were 50 E. I never made it to any Swiss clubs yet! It is much better to use a rental car especially up North.
I have heard the exact opposite regarding what is degrading than what Bfsie describes. But I suppose different girls have different views. And also, one shouldn't buy into everything we hear. When it comes to dutch clubs, SixSense would also contradict Bfsie's argument.
Phallus: Never underestimate a paradigm change. And even capitalism changes like an organism. Everything in society does.
I asked a girl once if she kissed her customers. She responded that she did not. She claimed she was there for sex. Not for love. And that kissing would feel degrading to her. Then I pointed out the french greeting culture. Four kisses on the cheeks just to say Hi. But she claimed that was 'cultural'.
'Yeah, exactly' was what I responded. 'But one guy also must first have introduced that kiss greeting. And maybe he received a few slaps on his face before people agreed to it. Now everybody does it. The thing is, if you want something to make you feel bad, you feel bad about it. If you want something to make you feel good, you feel good about it. ' I don't think I have to explain the morals of the story here, but there is a certain link to the enlightenment. Martin Luther etc etc.
After that I saw her sitting by herself thinking about it for what must have been 20 minutes. Beautiful girl. I didn't approach her again. If people let the world around them choose what they are to think or believe in, then let them. We cannot change what people believe in. For this girl, the result was less income. But she was faithful to her beliefs. Considering she also seemed to have chosen this job, then believing parts of what she did was degrading, was probably something she had picked up from other people, or the environment around her. But with a truly liberal mindset she would think for herself. But as mentioned in my last post, and Takedown hinted at also, framed words such as 'w. Ore', and 'ho. Oker' have been brought out into public discourse for a purpose by certain interest groups in order to program non liberal individuals. And this is why religious people are having the hardest time also accepting the trade of sex for money. Since they have already once given up their free mind to the idea that there is something out there that is beyond human capabilities and know how. And that we should listen to the hierarchy and leaders of current belief systems. And as the story goes, all the cultist brainwashing moves onwards with rituals, ceremonies, celebrations and holy books of morals without reasoning. Ad infinitum.
The main paradigm change which has barely started, and hardly many, if even any world leaders get a slight graps of the boundaries of today, is the information age. And the internet in particular. Eventually it will make the enlightenment turn into a baby step of a mouse.
Member #4636
02-10-19, 07:56
For me, it is not jealousy, but at the beginning of mongering life, I did have this feeling that wow how does such girl like this good end up in prostitution industry? This feeling I still have when I meet really beautiful girl both inside and out, but I never let me have illusion of any kind because in the end, we are in brothel world where GFE experience and sex are given in exchange for money we pay.I always have this question to my self when I meet a really beautiful girl inside and out and I see her opening wide her legs for every dirty monger. We men tend to confuse the outside look with what is inside. We think that just because she is nice and beautiful she should do a 'better' job, we feel shame for her.
This is not always good because sometimes we want to 'help' her get out of this shit.
... Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutch will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by German in terms of WG's service....I should re-write above: ... Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutchs on average will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans in terms of WG's service...
I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference I should re-write above: I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs on average are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs owned by ethnic Germans because of culture difference. I can’t imagine any Dutch club provides the same (or better) quality of WG’s service as GT or Babylon for example.
I should re-write above: ... Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutchs on average will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans in terms of WG's service...I never noticed a gap in service at either Sixsens or Yin Yang compared to any German club. Any gap was in LU.
I never noticed a gap in service at either Sixsens or Yin Yang compared to any German club. Any gap was in LU.I said compared to the German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans. Is there no difference between GT or Babylon and YY or Sixtens? Yes, if you compare them with German clubs owned by Turkish Germans, yes, there is no difference.
I said compared to the German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans. Is there no difference between GT or Babylon and YY or Sixtens? Yes, if you compare them with German clubs owned by Turkish Germans, yes, there is no difference.Before making such a drastic assumption, a good idea for you next time might be to visit SixSense.
I do agree to a small extent with you regarding the long hours girls in FKK's work however. The entry fee's they pay are the problem though. But it is not the customers fault. It is partly the fault of the clubs, and partly the fault of the regulators who state that girls are not allowed to work for a club. So they basically have to pay entry fees. However, it is an unsocial problem hitting less popular girls harder than the more popular ones. Again a problem caused mainly by the regulators who claim they are so wise and just.
I said compared to the German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans. Is there no difference between GT or Babylon and YY or Sixtens? Yes, if you compare them with German clubs owned by Turkish Germans, yes, there is no difference.I see your point regarding German management but also important is having a large contingent of ethnic German clientele. They seem to keep the standards high and spending expectation from girls low. However the problem with German owned clubs is that with the exception of GT, optic levels are usually lower compared to other clubs. Clubs like Babylon, Finca, LR generally keep a smaller line up with unspectacular optics.
Why will it not be subject to German Law, if it is to be located in Emmerich which is in Germany?Ok. Stupid me. I was thinking it was just across the border in Netherlands. Apologies everybody for my stupid post. I am suffering from the Great British disease of believing that everything in mainland Europe will be as we want it to be, regardless of reality.
At least Free Dude wrote a sensible post
Polyamorist
02-10-19, 16:29
I wasn't trying to start a relationship, I was pay g a lady for sex. I got exactly what I wanted from her, sex acts purchased in 30 minute blocks. That day on the street I was simply being courteous to someone I recognized.You are in denial.
"Pain is a treasure, for it contains mercies. " -- Rumi.
"Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. " -- Khalil Gibran.
"Fuck the pain away! Fuck the pain away!" -- The Teaches of Peaches.
I often had small talk with the WGs in the brothels about FKK club and almost all of them said that working in FKK club is just too low for them, meaning it is like in meat market and the WGs are treated like animals. They usually also said that 50 euro for half hour is also too low for them and they have to work long hours a day if they work in FKK.When I visit Germany I always choose the FKK's, have I been missing out on better service? But how much would it cost?
I think another problem I would have is that I like the atmosphere of the FKK where there's the ideal of spending a day at a "spa" with lots of girls, it's more an experience whereas a brothel visit sounds more like choosing a girl from a very small selection, do the deed and leave.
You are in denial.
"Pain is a treasure, for it contains mercies. " -- Rumi.
"Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. " -- Khalil Gibran.
"Fuck the pain away! Fuck the pain away!" -- The Teaches of Peaches.Some people do come from cultures where casual courtesy and friendliness are prioritized. Obviously not all people value friendly salutations as a way to maintain pleasant interactions.
As for the WG not wanting to be recognized in public, one must respect this. Telling you not to speak with her outside of the club, well, I suppose she should explain in a friendly way why she does not want this instead of such an angry and insulting manner.
Steve 9696
02-10-19, 17:39
My dear German FKK lounge buddies. I recall quite some talk about German FKK vs Globe. And of course beyond Globe prices there is Aphrodisia in downtown Zurich at a heartstopping 240€/ half hour.
I have sampled 2 girls at Aphrodisia and 3 at Globe and will be dropping posts in the Zurich and Globe forums over the next couple days. Aphrodisia already posted and two Globe girls. Kate and some comparisons and summary still to come.
Hope this is helpful to you.
P.S. Often there is discussion about girl names and does it help or not. I can say surely it does. I was able to grab Tina based on Marelobo Max's recommendation and I went with Kate, even tho too slim for me, based on Forum raves and she instantly vaulted into my top 5 all time! So YES the names are very helpful!
I have heard the exact opposite regarding what is degrading than what Bfsie describes. But I suppose different girls have different views. And also, one shouldn't buy into everything we hear. When it comes to dutch clubs, SixSense would also contradict Bfsie's argument.Paradigm changes happen slowly and organically, not abruptly through forcing abstract concepts that are irrelevant to the practical time frame. More often then not, they are too abstract and if abstract change is forced prematurely, it becomes disruptive to the ecosystem and in the end just fucks up the present.
Theory without practicality is a cousin to extremist ideology.
When I visit Germany I always choose the FKK's, have I been missing out on better service? But how much would it cost?
I think another problem I would have is that I like the atmosphere of the FKK where there's the ideal of spending a day at a "spa" with lots of girls, it's more an experience whereas a brothel visit sounds more like choosing a girl from a very small selection, do the deed and leave.I mix and match but think FKK is far superior on average than doing incalls, for all the reasons you say. Incalls can be as low as 50 for 30 minutes, but can easily be 100 for 30 minutes. I have had some superb incalls but they were usually recommendations.
As for what the girls say, I take it with a huge pinch of salt. They will tend to argue that the job they are doing is better than the one they are not doing, after all, who is going to say "I made a crap choice". FKK girls who have worked in apartments often say they hate it because they are confined to a small space all day, there is little interaction, and they don't know what horrors the next client will bring. Apartment girls who like apartment work will say they like being able to relax and have mainly regular customers.
Hope that helps.
Steve 9696
02-10-19, 18:13
I mix and match but think FKK is far superior on average than doing incalls, for all the reasons you say. Incalls can be as low as 50 for 30 minutes, but can easily be 100 for 30 minutes. I have had some superb incalls but they were usually recommendations.
As for what the girls say, I take it with a huge pinch of salt. They will tend to argue that the job they are doing is better than the one they are not doing, after all, who is going to say "I made a crap choice". FKK girls who have worked in apartments often say they hate it because they are confined to a small space all day, there is little interaction, and they don't know what horrors the next client will bring. Apartment girls who like apartment work will say they like being able to relax and have mainly regular customers.
Hope that helps.Girls pick what suits them best. In Zurich Girls at Aphrodisia have bad things to say about Globe (too many rules) and why they don't work there. And when you talk about Aphrodisia, Globe girls have their reasons for not liking it whether real or imagined (I don't like waiting to be picked. They do a lot of drugs there (We all pick our job based on what we perceive to be optimal. Same for WGs.
My dear German FKK lounge buddies. I recall quite some talk about German FKK vs Globe. And of course beyond Globe prices there is Aphrodisia in downtown Zurich at a heartstopping 240/ half hour.
I have sampled 2 girls at Aphrodisia and 3 at Globe and will be dropping posts in the Zurich and Globe forums over the next couple days. Aphrodisia already posted and two Globe girls. Kate and some comparisons and summary still to come.
Hope this is helpful to you.
P.S. Often there is discussion about girl names and does it help or not. I can say surely it does. I was able to grab Tina based on Marelobo Max's recommendation and I went with Kate, even tho too slim for me, based on Forum raves and she instantly vaulted into my top 5 all time! So YES the names are very helpful!Did you pay in € at Aphrodisia? 240 € for 280 CHF? If so, interesting change. How much € for 45 mn 380 CHF?
Kate worked for years around Frankfurt, before Globe. Many girls at Globe or Aphrodisia worked before in Germany or Austria, and improved in Switzerland where money talk. Best business for girls is at Globe, but not all girls are able to succeed there, when some sweet girls like Megan or Tina succeed at Globe, adapting to rules.
In my opinion since I know Dutch culture a little after many years living in Netherlands, Dutch FKK clubs owned by Dutch will never reach to the same level as German FKK clubs owned by German in terms of WG's service, because Dutch culture is very liberal unlike German culture and Dutch people in general are much more liberal than German people. So if a club is managed by Dutch, the club culture would usually be liberal and the Dutch managers would use hands-off approach to the WG's service and this usually means lousy WG's service.
I have never been to YY and other Dutch FKK clubs, but I am pretty sure that the WG's services in those clubs are not good compared to the equivalent German clubs because of culture difference.If you visited YY, You would better know, same level or close than GT or LR, and higher level than Hessen, and I don t say about foods or wellness.
Always better to really know. YY close would be a real loss.
Polyamorist
02-10-19, 20:13
I have heard the exact opposite regarding what is degrading than what Bfsie describes. Yeah, what is "degrading"? A word, no more. If enough people say something is degrading then it is degrading I guess. But to the naturists who came up with the term "FKK," the human body was something to be celebrated rather than be ashamed of. And there are many beauties who take joy in exhibiting their strengths.
But the Puritan tradition is furiously opposed to that, and turns everything upside down. It also appeals to vanity, but in the opposite way. Instead of girls being proud of their assets, it tells them they should be proud of *withholding* their assets. A cunning reversal, no? And that is exactly why America is in the state it is today, and why Americans flee to places like Germany to have a good time.
'The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven. ' -- John Milton.
Steve 9696
02-10-19, 21:01
Did you pay in at Aphrodisia? 240 for 280 CHF? If so, interesting change. How much for 45 mn 380 CHF?
Kate worked for years around Frankfurt, before Globe. Many girls at Globe or Aphrodisia worked before in Germany or Austria, and improved in Switzerland where money talk. Best business for girls is at Globe, but not all girls are able to succeed there, when some sweet girls like Megan or Tina succeed at Globe, adapting to rules.No. I paid in francs — 280/30. 380/45.
I just put it in Euros at more or less current exchange rate. Since I was speaking to a German forum.
Yeah, what is "degrading"? A word, no more. If enough people say something is degrading then it is degrading I guess. But to the naturists who came up with the term "FKK," the human body was something to be celebrated rather than be ashamed of. And there are many beauties who take joy in exhibiting their strengths.Indeed. Some of these people do something called fitness competitions. In a Wellcum video, a girl there named Ruby decribes her job as a type of 'modelling job'.
Paradigm changes happen slowly and organically, not abruptly through forcing abstract concepts that are irrelevant to the practical time frame. More often then not, they are too abstract and if abstract change is forced prematurely, it becomes disruptive to the ecosystem and in the end just fucks up the present.
Theory without practicality is a cousin to extremist ideology.They can happen both fast and slow. Time is a relative term. Media companies get extremely well paid in order to force through paradigm changes on grand scales. One such thing is the 'global warming'. So not all paradigm changes happens organically. Some do, but also some are forced through with the help of the media.
Mr McAdonis,
OK, one of my more serious post and not one of my mostly usual messing around post.
This is why I make sure I have friends in private life that I have known for years since I was kids or teen, I treasure those relationship, in many cases, I cannot discuss even with them about what I do in area of mongering, so for that, I made some friends online who I interact more seriously like this at inbox private messages of this forum.
I think as human, it is important to have people who one can talk to, I just think that person do not need to be prostitutes for sake and mental health of both parties. At the extremes of this hobby, my opinion is there are people who are in denial. It is a defense mechanism. They imagine realities because they don't want to face the truth. If you truly have friends in private life, then I hope you are not neglecting these relationships.
I will say this: you certainly do not seem to be neglecting the German FKK threads. You seem to be quite active here, as well as inbox messaging, and my understanding is that your mongering in Germany only constitutes a small percentage of your overall mongering activity. You have over 3 K posts in the German FKK threads. One might reasonably assume that you have 30 K posts in Japan threads in Japanese language forums? Are you making posts while you are at the office?
Have you tried www.mysugardaddy.eu? Any luck if you did?Thanks for the reminder. No I haven't. I intend to look into it. I can be quite lazy when it comes to exploring alternatives. I will probably be inboxing you whenever I do.
There have been clubs in Emmerich before (Fun Garden, Lekker Ding), but they always struggle. Schuttdorf is near the border as well and Golden Dreams always struggled to get decent line ups, until they left. Just 20 miles down the A3 from Emmerich you have SC Venus and Gallardo (previously Marisol), all of which struggle to get anything going that resembles the bigger clubs (although Venus can be nice for a few hours). Simply put, (I think) that far north there aren't enough people to make clubs with many girls successful. Neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands. If you are travelling from the bigger Ducth cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), you'll be on the road for a while anyway and the difference between Bruggen and Emmerich won't matter. Believe me, I do this a few times each month and normally I breeze past Emmerich and Hamminkeln towards clubs I want to visit. Or I cross the border at Venlo (smack in between Yin Yang and Golden Time).Have some of these clubs you mentioned closed? You seem to speak about a few in past tense. Can you elaborate on why SC Venus is only nice for a few hours? You have always seemed the most knowledgeable on the smaller NRW clubs that nobody else talks about or even hear of.
How would you rank these smaller clubs in terms of LU size, service, or optics? Diamond, Gallardo, Great Palace, Havana, SC Venus, Harem, Tutti Frutti, Van Goch, Xanten, Zeus, DejaVu, Salome, Neby, Aplerbeck, Luder Lounge or any other ones I may have missed. I mean, if someone had an interest in branching out and exploring these smaller places, are there a few that you would recommend above the others?
No. I paid in francs 280/30. 380/45.
I just put it in Euros at more or less current exchange rate. Since I was speaking to a German forum.At Globe, you can pay 130 € for 140 CHF. Can also pay in USD, also at Aphro.
At the extremes of this hobby, my opinion is there are people who are in denial. It is a defense mechanism. They imagine realities because they don't want to face the truth. If you truly have friends in private life, then I hope you are not neglecting these relationships.
I will say this: you certainly do not seem to be neglecting the German FKK threads. You seem to be quite active here, as well as inbox messaging, and my understanding is that your mongering in Germany only constitutes a small percentage of your overall mongering activity. You have over 3 K posts in the German FKK threads. One might reasonably assume that you have 30 K posts in Japan threads in Japanese language forums? Are you making posts while you are at the office?Yeah, mostly at office, but also at home too usually at night and in the morning. Most of time, I just mess around here at forum, but sometimes, I do write seriously. Inbox is where it is more constantly serious rather little more intellectual communications goes on with those I became virtual friends with on this forum, which amaze me as most of time I do not take forum seriously, but I guess they were smart enough or nice enough to read between the line LOL.
It is good thing because even with 99% of my childhood friends, I do not share about my mongering life due to fear that it could leak out, so in a way, it is my secret life, so forum or more inbox is nice place to spend sometime and it does not take alot of time as you maybe were trying to point out, like this post I am writing now, it took me about 2 minutes to write, that is why most of time, again, this is sex forum and I do not take it too seriously, beside some inbox messaging and even some forum postings actually make me grow as person, like mr the cane and mr phallus maximus often write very intellectual posts that are inspiring and I did relate to install some of their thoughts. It is good input place also. And I do reply even to immature posts, which in part I am guilty of as I do write non serious staff on forum most of times, but hey I am in my late 30's, and how old are those guys getting frustrate at me? LOL.
And no, I do not write on Japanese sex forum, most posts are even less quality here and at home ground I have full control of what I am doing to get most beautiful eurasians that are rare here, as for FKK, I go one to three trips per year max when I can, one trip is must no matter how busy I am or sometimes I cannot bother to travel as I have been doing western beauties since age 17 began in switzerland, so I sometimes force myself to go, though once I am there excitement comes back. When I began FKK, I used to do about 10 days to max 14 days consecutive FKK trip one time per year, then I later divided that to 2 or 3 trips of just 5 consecutive FKK days due to efficiency and in par performance, well performance part I met cialis and that solved it. I guess this answer some questions for you?
But what I do not get is this. I just do not get why some people try to get relationship with prostitutes in FKK, this is not to insult prostitutes or nothing like that, but what I mean is that, FKK is brothel, it is not place to seek for soul mate or someone you can deeply connect with, brothel is place to have sex. I have good relation with girls I repeat, but that good relation stay in FKK because what happen in FKK stays in FKK, sometimes they write me on e-mail, but I know it is just a sales mail and these girls are not serious, I think seeking relationship in FKK with prostitutes are dangerous both men and prostitutes and there are some cases in past that escalated to very sad vicious crime because of that and clients who seek relationship with girls is worst clients mentally for girls, good money though they said. Most close friends that last for life are made in high school and university, not in brothel.
I see your point regarding German management but also important is having a large contingent of ethnic German clientele. They seem to keep the standards high and spending expectation from girls low. However the problem with German owned clubs is that with the exception of GT, optic levels are usually lower compared to other clubs. Clubs like Babylon, Finca, LR generally keep a smaller line up with unspectacular optics.You are absolutely correct and I completely agree with you. That is optic trade-off of good service which I talked about several times before. In the FKK clubs in the integrated region of Germany, Austria, Netherlands and Switzerland, optics and service compromise each other in theory and practice which I explained in one of my previous posts.
Switzerland is not exceptional as long as Romanian WGs dominate its scene. It is a waste of money if you go to Switzerland for optics because, as Swiss culture and tradition, any Swiss sex establishment would emphasize on the quality of service which would inevitably compromise the quality of optics. Yes, you will get it if you go there for WG’s service.
I understand here is FKK forum with many FKK fans, so let's not discuss further about FKK WGs except to think about all the posts on this subject including mine.
With regards to Dutch clubs, can anyone name one Dutch club which has the same quality of WG's service as GT, LR, Babylon, Finca, Luder Lounge, Villa Venus and other German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans (not Turkish Germans)?
They can happen both fast and slow. Time is a relative term. Media companies get extremely well paid in order to force through paradigm changes on grand scales. One such thing is the 'global warming'. So not all paradigm changes happens organically. Some do, but also some are forced through with the help of the media.Speed was a irrelevant side point. Organically and praticality were the real points.
Global warming: that's called informing the public of you know, facts. Yet 50 years later and over half of the world's population doesn't give a fuck.
You're basically making my point with media induced paradigm shifts. Look how well those agendas have been going. Feminism: clusterfuck with men playing along to either get laid covertly or to protect their careers. Forced Liberalism: conservative and nationalist backlash that has led to Trump, Brexit, and possibly future Italian and Hungarian nationalist regression.
Successful paradigm shifts short of war and revolutions where people were you know, starving and dying, generally do not happen abruptly from abstract nutjobs who consider themselves free thinkers, forcing impractical, abstract ideas down people's throats.
What happens when nutjobs with abstract ideas prevail? Fucking return of measles and polio.
At Globe, you can pay 130 for 140 CHF. Can also pay in USD, also at Aphro.The price in ZH Globe becoming within same price range as some German FKK like Artemis and Palace etc. NRW is the only hope for fair enough pricing nowadays.
I understand here is FKK forum with many FKK fans, so let's not discuss further about FKK WGs except to think about all the posts on this subject including mine.
With regards to Dutch clubs, can anyone name one Dutch club which has the same quality of WG's service as GT, LR, Babylon, Finca, Luder Lounge, Villa Venus and other German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans (not Turkish Germans)?SixSense probably above all on your list. Maybe Babylon has the same level as SixSense. Some girls have gone between SS and Babylon Elsdorf a few times the past year for this reason I suppose. GT certainly below (and below YY too). No idea about Villa Venus or Luder Lounge.
I understand here is FKK forum with many FKK fans, so let's not discuss further about FKK WGs except to think about all the posts on this subject including mine.
With regards to Dutch clubs, can anyone name one Dutch club which has the same quality of WG's service as GT, LR, Babylon, Finca, Luder Lounge, Villa Venus and other German clubs owned by ETHNIC Germans (not Turkish Germans)?What is a WG quality? For me = the pickiest guy, first she has to be pretty and a bit elegant, then it s only guy skill and behavior to be able to get what he wants from her, to give her the will to give him, even when paying. Some guys will report some girls are lazy or don t kiss, when these girls just want to give only suck and fuck to these guys. We have to be 2 into, for good time.
Then, I had great girls at YY, at least 5 since November 2017, 3 asking for orgasmus with 1 who was upset when I didn t succeed to give her, more than at Sharks + Oase at same time, at least same level than GT for these girls potential. Had also 1 very good surprise at 6 ens, not busy, probably because too elegant sophisticated, but despite small silicon, a real woman in bed, not a little upselling GND, this just for 100 for 1 very full GFE hour.
About Globe, yes more expensive, but really higher level for woman type looks and for level in bed, for 130 €/30 mn, not so much more expensive than some Sharks or Oase little girls. Real women don t upsell at Sharks.
But better to visit to be able to know, and also to be able to deserve from girls.
BigBuddy69
02-11-19, 09:35
I don't know about the ethnicity of the owners but those 2 last years I had good encounters in 6 sense.
And maybe I'm the only one but I never realized so many differences in the optic department between sharks and LR or sharks and Finca. More girls yes, prettier 'not so sure. Between Sharks and Aca gold the difference in optics is obvious.
Hello there,
Long time lurker, new poster.
I will soon be visiting Germany again after a long time and only have one visit to Artemis under my belt.
I'm going to spend some time in the Frankfurt area and was wondering what club would suit my wishes better.
Basically looking for women on the slightly thicker end of the spectrum. Not BBW's, just full round asses and natural tits. No optifucks needed, plain old depravity will suffice.
But what I do not get is this. I just do not get why some people try to get relationship with prostitutes in FKK, this is not to insult prostitutes or nothing like that, but what I mean is that, FKK is brothel, it is not place to seek for soul mate or someone you can deeply connect with, brothel is place to have sex. I have good relation with girls I repeat, but that good relation stay in FKK because what happen in FKK stays in FKK, sometimes they write me on e-mail, but I know it is just a sales mail and these girls are not serious, I think seeking relationship in FKK with prostitutes are dangerous both men and prostitutes and there are some cases in past that escalated to very sad vicious crime because of that and clients who seek relationship with girls is worst clients mentally for girls, good money though they said. Most close friends that last for life are made in high school and university, not in brothel.I mainly agree with you here actually. But I have also noticed through the years that there are working girls who are single, and their job is keeping them away from the normal dating game. So an easy way for these girls can be to find a monger. And some of these girls can be stunningly beautiful. So in these, I have to add rare cases, it is not something to completely rule out. What the numbers are is hard to say. Some say 90% have boyfriends already. Maybe. We don't know for sure. Only guesses. And some even date these girls without paying too. I have dated several girls mainly in asia without paying too. Working girls in the past. But in europe I havebt had the guts yet to take the chance as I feel the risk is higher. Maybe its cultural. It seems in some places to be kind of something a wg would hide from her other nationals as it seems to have stigma for some of them. Like a chinese girl dating a westerner for example due to the imposed idea chinese men give out stating there are too many sibgke Chinese men. Maybe Romanian or Turkish men feel the same as a grouped together 'immigrant society'. But now I am just guessibg here. Even if I had 10+ different gitls telling me a certain girl was not trying to fool me once at an FKK when she wanted to move in with me permanently, I bailed out. So far that leap just seems to far. Just like you say, partly for those same reasons. And partly also for the history of the girls having charged you for something (like chess in the room). In asia, this dating of wg's are far more normal than in europe though. In Macau for example due to the incredibly skewed gender imbalance with far more women than men. Thailand and south east asia for other more obvious reasons. Why it is different in Europe than in asia? History may be one reason in thailand. Maybe somebody here can make good guesses. But it seems to me like most girls doing this for a living is opposed to it while working. Aside from fooling guys into paying more indirectly ofcourse. And then dating. But it can be an option for them the moment they quit this job. However, that might mean that they are of the older types and 30+ when getting to that point. Maybe it is like a way of retiering for both wg's and monger alike. But I hope not too many get their hopes up, as it seems to lead to silly drama, and rumored to also lead to dangerous incidents if one get fooled. And the majority is getting fooled.
At the extremes of this hobby, my opinion is there are people who are in denial. It is a defense mechanism. They imagine realities because they don't want to face the truth. If you truly have friends in private life, then I hope you are not neglecting these relationships.
I will say this: you certainly do not seem to be neglecting the German FKK threads. You seem to be quite active here, as well as inbox messaging, and my understanding is that your mongering in Germany only constitutes a small percentage of your overall mongering activity. You have over 3 K posts in the German FKK threads. One might reasonably assume that you have 30 K posts in Japan threads in Japanese language forums? Are you making posts while you are at the office?Nice attempt but delusion is apparently one hell of a beast and you are right that it's probably not worth bothering attempting to preaent a reality check. Your contribution to society is noted.
I'll add to our conversation earlier. While I stand by by my proposed benefits of socializing with prostitutes as a way to gain some social skills, I suppose that is only appropriate only people who are shy or a little awkward. As alluded to, in this case they can serve as a psychologist, pressure release vavlve, or life counselor. However, people suffering from delusions and practicing denial of one's own limitations, well, they probably would not benefit. These people would just fall further into their delusions, lying to themselves and others.
Nick The G
02-11-19, 16:49
But as mentioned in my last post, and Takedown hinted at also, framed words such as 'w. Ore', and 'ho. Oker' have been brought out into public discourse for a purpose by certain interest groups in order to program non liberal individuals.Each word / name itself is a distinct frame! LIke we say, eg: "in the name of freedom".
The main paradigm change which has barely started, and hardly many, if even any world leaders get a slight graps of the boundaries of today, is the information age. And the internet in particular. Eventually it will make the enlightenment turn into a baby step of a mouse.Information is for intellectuals and computers. Intuition and wisdom are for human beings that got in contact with (their) intelligence.
The imo best modern map of stages of consiousness and the evolution of mankind, written in a language that is easily understandable, can be found in the work of Ken Wilber (Integral Institute). If one doesn't mind a book with 800+ pages, I would recommend this one her:
https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Tomorrow-Traditions-More-Inclusive-Comprehensive/dp/1611803004/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1549899721&sr=8-3&keywords=ken+wilber+books.
HydroPumper
02-11-19, 17:00
Group,
Now I understand why there is not much information in this forum regarding FKK Morgenland. Visited Morgenland on a Monday afternoon and the place was dead! Their website would lead you to believe the club is much bigger than it is and much nicer. In truth, it's small and not so nice. Was only there for a few minutes when I realized that there was not much fun to be had. Saw four girls and only one of them would have considered having a session with. And, no diet soda! Looked at the time and realized I could get to Colosseum right at opening so I took off.
I'm not saying "do not go" but saying "keep your expectations low".
Each word / name itself is a distinct frame! LIke we say, eg: "in the name of freedom".
Information is for intellectuals and computers. Intuition and wisdom are for human beings that got in contact with (their) intelligence.
The imo best modern map of stages of consiousness and the evolution of mankind, written in a language that is easily understandable, can be found in the work of Ken Wilber (Integral Institute). If one doesn't mind a book with 800+ pages, I would recommend this one her:
https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Tomorrow-Traditions-More-Inclusive-Comprehensive/dp/1611803004/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1549899721&sr=8-3&keywords=ken+wilber+books.I have no idea where you got it from that every word is a frame. Every subjective word you choose to use a frame. But not an objective word that you don't use. For example, the word 'word', is an objective word. We use words all the time, but we don't write 'word' in every sentence. There are distinct types of framing too, and I was referring to action framing.
About the information age, the main outcome, and perhaps the whole idea behind it, is to fuse your two distinct domains: robotic intellect and intuition / wisdom. We call such a fusion a cyborg, and in a way, we have all just started becoming one through communicating from far away, and between all age groups. Soon we might even learn to read minds. Or who knows, we might be able to hack each others memories. What then? We can reexperience the emotions, impulses and sensations Brad Pitt had when boning Angelina Jolie? Or vice versa for women? LOL.
Speed was a irrelevant side point. Organically and praticality were the real points.
Global warming: that's called informing the public of you know, facts. Yet 50 years later and over half of the world's population doesn't give a fuck.
You're basically making my point with media induced paradigm shifts. Look how well those agendas have been going. Feminism: clusterfuck with men playing along to either get laid covertly or to protect their careers. Forced Liberalism: conservative and nationalist backlash that has led to Trump, Brexit, and possibly future Italian and Hungarian nationalist regression.
Successful paradigm shifts short of war and revolutions where people were you know, starving and dying, generally do not happen abruptly from abstract nutjobs who consider themselves free thinkers, forcing impractical, abstract ideas down people's throats.
What happens when nutjobs with abstract ideas prevail? Fucking return of measles and polio.Lets just say that 99% of what you read in the news is grey truths. And most of them are agendas forced upon us. Most of which agendas are even public now with Agenda 21, agenda 2030, New Urban Agenda in protection of migrants, IOM etc etc etc.
New previously abstract words become common every year, and soon gain traction in the public. Everything evolves, languages, people, knowledge, technologies. Nothing is stagnant. Everyone is a 'nutjob'. It makes us into individuals. Some are just more open and honest about it than others.
Getting into conspiracy theories on this forum won't get us anywhere, and can spin into ad infinitum 10 new pages. So lets not get started. But that is the power of the media. To stake out what is fake news, and what is not. And the average guy listens to it. Because NBC said it, and NBC has Brian Williams and Lester Holt. Two likable guys with faces that seem honest. As if we actually hear the interpretations of these seemingly professional well spoken faces, and not just hear them reading large letters on a big screen next to the camera shooting them. Written by an abstract nutjob freak sitting behind a computer with two inch thick glasses, one arm, a stinky t shirt and cum on his right hand. (LOL).
I will just make one example. CO2 may, or may not cause global warming. I might lack enough information. Media news spin doctors definitely haven't managed to show it inconclusively. But what we do know for a fact, is that if we reduce the amount of water in the lower cloud layer of the earth. The higher cloud layers move upwards, and we get a double warming effect. This is being done en masse with something known as cloud seeding. And we have been doing this more and more for over 50 years already. In parallel with global warming taking off. Overpopulation and our thirst for water can then be concluded as causing global warming. Not our usage of CO2. But our hunger for water hits less fairly economically than our hunger for CO2.
https://youtu.be/Tmk7nAvpMXQ
But ofcourse you are right in that information cause paradigm changes. It just depends on how we frame that information. We call it spin doctoring. A subjective take on reality. It can both be facts, and it can be half truths to some.
Every political change is caused by a nutjob who considers himself a free thinker. That is how the world evolves. Believeing we are the exception to the rule is insanity. Just look at Donald Trump. Or Hillary Clinton for that matter. Delve deep enough into any presidental candidate you have in the nutjob country USA (all countries are the same. Just that the media industry of USA is more rough), and you end up finding dirt if you want. At least if you want to frame it all as dirt. And even framing something as dirt can have a forseen or unforseen consequence. Ending up being positive or negative for certain agendas.
GT certainly below (and below YY too). No idea about Villa Venus or Luder Lounge.But you have never sessioned at GT. Use of the word "Certainly" seems to be a case of poor reporting, certainly one not using first hand experience while disregarding the the viewpoints of those with whom you most often monger. This attitude may lead one to take a shitty session immediately after a fellow monger tells you that a WG should be avoided.
Reviews are by nature generally subjective but subjectivity should at least be based on experience.
The greatest skill a human being can have is neighter intellect, wisdom nor intuition. It is empathy. And we like emphatic people. Girls with empathy makes more money than others. If Sirioja wants a kiss, a girl kiss. If BigDaddyCool76 and CaneupHosAss likes anal, the girl gives away anal as an option. Maybe even doing training at home with a toy in order to open up. LOL. Just because she knows there are kinky guys out there who are different. Because they understand what some other people are searching for. Of course, as long as it doesn't harm themselves physically. That is the psychology I think Takedown might be searching for without saying it. We all have larger or smaller demons inside of us that wants out. And certain demons are such that working girls tend to them better than a male psychologist. If we suppress them, they may grow larger, and bad things may occur.
Thomas Aquinas coined it well for his time and in his cultural context.
- Prostitution in the towns is like the cesspool in the palace: take away the cesspool and the palace will become an unclean and evil-smelling place. - Thomas Aquinas.
I don't know about the ethnicity of the owners but those 2 last years I had good encounters in 6 sense.
And maybe I'm the only one but I never realized so many differences in the optic department between sharks and LR or sharks and Finca. More girls yes, prettier 'not so sure. Between Sharks and Aca gold the difference in optics is obvious.I dunno man. I just visited both Sharks and Finca 2 days apart. While, I love Finca, the optic disparity is pretty glaring. To a lesser degree, LR also. Maybe I am just fooled by the total nudity versus dessous clubs.
Oh, and people don't like intellectual people. Because 50% of us will allways be opposed, and 50% will allways agree. That is why I tell random guy at Sharks who asks who these forum trolls such as for example Kosher Kowboy is, who spam ISG are. That I don't post on an internet forum. And then he looks bewilderred himself too, as he was in fact searching for a likeminded group of guys from a secret hidden brotherhood of weirdo nutjobs (courtesy of Takedown). That he also never post on internet forums. He then proceeds with his search to weed us out of the crowds. But I once met a guy that did post on an internet forum, and he was a bit strange. (LOL). Because chances are he hates my ideas and will just play nice if I tell him. The power of immunity. At least untill the random german local with eyes everywhere sniffs you out and tells him. As abstract or not this story was. It can theoretically happen.
I think that many Takedown's FKK-related observations and views are spot on and he is one of the best and most sensible FKK observers on FKK forum by his FKK experience. I am not talking about other FKK-unrelated issues on which everyone can have his own opinion, but I think he got very good senses on many FKK-related issues due to his FKK experience and observation.
It is time for me to go back to work LOL.
The greatest skill a human being can have is neighter intellect, wisdom nor intuition. It is empathy. And we like emphatic people. Girls with empathy makes more money than others. If Sirioja wants a kiss, a girl kiss. If BigDaddyCool76 and CaneupHosAss likes anal, the girl gives away anal as an option. Maybe even doing training at home with a toy in order to open up. LOL. Just because she knows there are kinky guys out there who are different. Because they understand what some other people are searching for. Of course, as long as it doesn't harm themselves physically. That is the psychology I think Takedown might be searching for without saying it. We all have larger or smaller demons inside of us that wants out. And certain demons are such that working girls tend to them better than a male psychologist. If we suppress them, they may grow larger, and bad things may occur.
Thomas Aquinas coined it well for his time and in his cultural context.
- Prostitution in the towns is like the cesspool in the palace: take away the cesspool and the palace will become an unclean and evil-smelling place. - Thomas Aquinas.Kissing is the most intimate for most of girls, much more than sucking, even CIM, even AO sex, and I make the job with my manners to give girls the will to come to kiss me, really enjoyable is while fucking and she put her going faster and faster breathe in your mouth. Some become really passionate under caresses or when we are deep inside.
As say girls, we are different and easy to notice how some girls treat us in very different way, before room, girls will go to ask to some guys when some guys will have to wait all night or run after, in room girls won t give same program with all of us, and how girls will behave after we paid. I enjoy when girls propose me to go for diner before and even more after, and really enjoyable was a really good surprise preparing sandwich for her and me on late night, after love in bed, not only sex can really be enjoyable, girls behavior is very important for me, what I call GFE, when girls just run away from most, after getting money.
I mainly agree with you here actually. But I have also noticed through the years that there are working girls who are single, and their job is keeping them away from the normal dating game. So an easy way for these girls can be to find a monger. And some of these girls can be stunningly beautiful. So in these, I have to add rare cases, it is not something to completely rule out. What the numbers are is hard to say. Some say 90% have boyfriends already. Maybe. We don't know for sure. Only guesses. And some even date these girls without paying too. I have dated several girls mainly in asia without paying too. Working girls in the past. But in europe I havebt had the guts yet to take the chance as I feel the risk is higher. Maybe its cultural. It seems in some places to be kind of something a wg would hide from her other nationals as it seems to have stigma for some of them. Like a chinese girl dating a westerner for example due to the imposed idea chinese men give out stating there are too many sibgke Chinese men. Maybe Romanian or Turkish men feel the same as a grouped together 'immigrant society'..OK, writing seriously here, and I contradict what I wrote a little bit.
I tend to also think in FKK, client can have some kind of friendship or relationship with girls because we now finally live in freedom enough world, where we more or less can do what we want or say what we want to say to great extent, but all I am saying for sake and safety of both parties, both clients and working girls in FKK, it is better to draw some line in German FKK because it is brothel, it is place to seek for sexual fantasies and it is not place to communicate in deeper level with opposite sex in mental spiritual level, you can connect in deeper level in sexual level that is FKK for me, this is what I really think for sake and safety of both parties.
There are many different girls in FKK and not all pimp and lover boys behind though most are, but the fact that they come into your life so deep sexually and they are gone is part of beauty of mongering, though connection is deep in sexual level, somehow some of my past favorite girls I frequented stays in my beautiful memories.
As for aftermath of FKK girls, many girls told me that they quit then they get boyfriends to live their life, I hope they will as many are actually nice hearted girls even in such hard situation that they are in and I respect their strength to stay kind and warm hearted, they are stronger many of us mongers. Whether it is true or not, I wish every girl I repeated in room to be happy in their after FKK life. I sometimes do think about their dreams they told me in room even though they are long gone and yes, you are right, they continue this life of FKK, it is not impossible, but hard to get themselves a real boyfriend because no man send their wife or loved one to FKK if they truly love them. I give respect and praises for how some of those FKK girls managed to stay so strong, brave and warm hearted and fair even in such harsh situation in FKK and they are given to bad hand of unfortunate fate called life in FKK for now.
Meanwhile, let me get back to usual Mr Ho LOL! As long as mongers continue to be mongers, we cannot get real girlfriend because we know where we can get better juices are than girls who will age and decrease in quality, in FKK our girlfriends are young, beautiful and they change all the time without stress, no negotiation their legs are wide open even their anal are open, and hey it is much cheaper than marriage LOL!
Oh, and people don't like intellectual people. Because 50% of us will allways be opposed, and 50% will allways agree. That is why I tell random guy at Sharks who asks who these forum trolls such as for example Kosher Kowboy is, who spam ISG are. That I don't post on an internet forum. And then he looks bewilderred himself too, as he was in fact searching for a likeminded group of guys from a secret hidden brotherhood of weirdo nutjobs (courtesy of Takedown). That he also never post on internet forums. He then proceeds with his search to weed us out of the crowds. But I once met a guy that did post on an internet forum, and he was a bit strange. (LOL). Because chances are he hates my ideas and will just play nice if I tell him. The power of immunity. At least untill the random german local with eyes everywhere sniffs you out and tells him. As abstract or not this story was. It can theoretically happen.Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.
To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.
Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.
P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.
Getting into conspiracy theories on this forum won't get us anywhere, and can spin into ad infinitum 10 new pages. So lets not get started. But that is the power of the media. To stake out what is fake news, and what is not. And the average guy listens to it. Because NBC said it, and NBC has Brian Williams and Lester Holt. Two likable guys with faces that seemed m honest. As if we actually hear the interpretations of these seemingly professional well spoken faces, and not just hear them reading large letters on a big screen next to the camera shooting them. Written by an abstract nutjob freak sitting behind a computer with two inch thick glasses, one arm, a stinky t shirt and cum on his right hand. (LOL).
I will just make one example. CO2 may, or may not cause global warming. I might lack enough information. Media news spin doctors definitely haven't managed to show it inconclusively. But what we do know for a fact, is that if we reduce the amount of water in the lower cloud layer of the earth. The higher cloud layers move upwards, and we get a double warming effect. This is being done en masse with something known as cloud seeding. And we have been doing this more and more for over 50 years already. In parallel with global warming taking off. Overpopulation and our thirst for water can then be concluded as causing global warming. Not our usage of CO2. But our hunger for water hits less fairly economically than our hunger for CO2."Let's not get started with conspiracy theory" but goes off in anti climate change tangent. Ridiculous.
"Every political change caused by a nutjob". Difference between nutjob and well informed people who present practical ideas. The worst are contrarians who's main priority is not to present enlightenment and objectivity but rather to appear wise by constantly presenting contradicting ideas no matter how ridiculous and impractical. As an example of I'll-prove-you-wrong contrarian personality type, I'll refer to picking Sharky girls at Oase in face of strong recommendation to avoid and proceeding and failing to make and entry deadline despite direct recommendation not to do so. Ad hominem yes, but supports the point nonetheless.
I was curious about FKK Sixsens after you guys mentioned it, so I contacted a Dutch guy I know who regularly goes to various FKK clubs. He told me that the owner of Sixsens is a German, not a Dutch, but he is not sure the owner is ethnic German or Turkish German. The club is right on the Dutch-German border, just a couple of minutes from German city Aachen, although technically the club is in Netherlands. Just let you guys know.
I heard there are a few small FKK sauna clubs on the west part of Netherlands near Amsterdam or The Hague. I guess few ISGers know them.
Nick The G
02-12-19, 16:17
The greatest skill a human being can have is neighter intellect, wisdom nor intuition. It is empathy.I am sure you can supply us with a link to some scientific research on this topic leading to the conclusion you mentioned! Smiley.
And we like emphatic people. Girls with empathy makes more money than others. If Sirioja wants a kiss, a girl kiss. If BigDaddyCool76 and CaneupHosAss likes anal, the girl gives away anal as an option. Maybe even doing training at home with a toy in order to open up. LOL. Just because she knows there are kinky guys out there who are different. Because they understand what some other people are searching for. Of course, as long as it doesn't harm themselves physically.While I agree that empathy, when developed, is a great gift, I think your examples have littel if all to do with empathy. It is more about taking a decision in a special working environment. The decision of a female sex worker about how many parts / facets of her natural body and alive being, and to what extent, she wants to commercialize.
While I agree that empathy, when developed, is a great gift, I think your examples have littel if all to do with empathy. It is more about taking a decision in a special working environment. The decision of a female sex worker about how many parts / facets of her natural body and alive being, and to what extent, she wants to commercialize.To his point, it probably does take empathy but it is used selfishly, empathy nonetheless. That type of girl can have empathy but uses that understanding to extract more money. Empathetic but neither sympathetic or benevolent.
Sebastiane
02-12-19, 17:39
I think this topic has been discussed before but it is a fascinating topic. Although it is rare, I don't think it is impossible for an FKK girl to fall in love with one of her clients- or for the client to fall in love with one of his FKK girls - but the problems would start not from them but from society. Once your friends and family find out that your GF / partner / wife was a former FKK girl (prostitute) the pressure on the couple would be very high. I think Mr Ho is correct that in the more advanced societies of Western Europe, where people are liberal and religion is seen as an outdated thing, you have more chance of success because people generally don't care about other's personal lives but in more conservative societies (Muslim countries, Asian countries, Catholic countries, Latin America) it would be much more of a stigma. Obviously, I'm generalisiing and I'm sure there will be exceptions to all those examples I've given (especially if you're amongst the very wealthy in any society you can do what you want!) So possible, yes. Likely? No. I think it would make a great novel or movie script.
I think the girls are worthy of respect tbh and I respect those countries like Germany which has legalised this profession-- it is the first step to removing the stigma completely.
"Every political change caused by a nutjob". Difference between nutjob and well informed people who present practical ideas. The worst are contrarians who's main priority is not to present enlightenment and objectivity but rather to appear wise by constantly presenting contradicting ideas no matter how ridiculous and impractical. As an example of I'll-prove-you-wrong contrarian personality type, I'll refer to picking Sharky girls at Oase in face of strong recommendation to avoid and proceeding and failing to make and entry deadline despite direct recommendation not to do so. Ad hominem yes, but supports the point nonetheless.Sharky? You pay 200 e for a 3-some sub 1 hour session. I pay 15 e extra cause my phone died and I was out of battery. Still I call this all laissez-faire thinking and doing, and I don't judge like stereotypically seems to keep doing. Making silly defining words like 'nutjob', and thinking your own mind is special and so much more educated and well informed. Even claiming contradictions where it might just be you not getting the entire picture.
Nick the G: LOL at the first one. But you won't get anything through in life without some game theory. The robotic definition on what empathy really is. You go on to basically describe this empathy as robotic as well in your second response. I suppose it is all a matter of how to frame it. Smiley.
Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.
To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.
Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.
P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.Maybe you might want to reread that post I made, cause your makes no sense at all. And stop assuming. It just gets silly. P.S.: I didn't mention KK myself. (Not going to explain my post further cause it was a rather funny incident).
Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.
To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.
Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.
P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.I have had 8 or 9 rooms at GT. From 5 visits I believe. You can find some of my earliest reports if you feel like searching.
Bfsie can think what he wants, but my take on it, although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.
To his point, it probably does take empathy but it is used selfishly, empathy nonetheless. That type of girl can have empathy but uses that understanding to extract more money. Empathetic but neither sympathetic or benevolent.Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them. Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.
although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her. I can add Kity, but Katea for sure would be happy to still get now my business. Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.
Nick The G
02-12-19, 23:23
Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them.How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!
You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?
Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel. And astonishingly not about the empathy of the mongering men that visit the brothel, but about the empathy of women who work there!
Optimist, if you had that "genuine" empathy yourself, that you admire in those women, could you convince these women in a brothel to fuck with you without them asking you for money? Because they realised you are the best illusion maker and you can "display genuine feeling" and you know "how to creep inside the heads of women"?
Which leads to the question: do many of us constantly need to pay for women because we breed an overboarding illusionary trait, but suffer from a terrible lack of empathy? Smiley!
A link to an article on empathy vs. sympathy in "Psychology Today"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201505/empathy-vs-sympathy
for those who want to learn something about different levels of empathy, here is another link to a more scientific oriented paper:
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED371247.pdf
Nick The G
02-12-19, 23:26
But you won't get anything through in life without some game theory.Has there been life on earth before someone talked about "game theory"? Smiley.
Sharky? You pay 200 e for a 3-some sub 1 hour session. I pay 15 e extra cause my phone died and I was out of battery. Still I call this all laissez-faire thinking and doing, and I don't judge like stereotypically seems to keep doing. Making silly defining words like 'nutjob', and thinking your own mind is special and so much more educated and well informed. Even claiming contradictions where it might just be you not getting the entire picture.I confess that I choose to live in the fantasy inside the clubs but make an effort to keep my mind rooted in objectivity in the real world. Some great benefits can be taken away from the clubs but keeping sensibilities in the world we live in 90% of the time has served me pretty well but I guess my experience is just mine and should not be expected from others. That is fair.
Sorry I lost 10 minutes times 2 since I finished at the 45 minute mark. I guess I should have made the girls stay in the room for the full 15 minutes to make sure they earned the money instead of the casual 5 minute cigarette and chat.
Is Palace entry only 65 euro or is it 75 euro? My math leads me to believe that missing early special specials puts one 25 euro in hole. Oase's early entry saves one 20 euro and Shark's Wednesday and Sunday specials saves one 15 euro.
Terrible session at Oase and not doing a session at Palace after a 75 euro entry, that is quite an unfortunate series of unforced errors. 125 euro unfortunate, perhaps 130 considering fuel.
Maybe you might want to reread that post I made, cause your makes no sense at all. And stop assuming. It just gets silly. P.S.: I didn't mention KK myself. (Not going to explain my post further cause it was a rather funny incident).KK was also under the impression that you were attacking him. Perhaps we are both illiterate?
My question is what did KK ever do to anyone to deserve this bad mouthing? That random Sharks guy is a terrible judge of character. But posters looking to make sure he gets his message across could benefit from the use of commas and semi colons.
I have had 8 or 9 rooms at GT. From 5 visits I believe. You can find some of my earliest reports if you feel like searching.
Bfsie can think what he wants, but my take on it, although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.Sorry perhaps my memory failed me and you have been to GT many times. My sincerest apologies. Again, please continue the anti GT crusade and boost Oceans as much as possible. It is entirely within the rights of all posters to have their opinions. Again, I am very sorry for this mistake.
As for the other points, I kinda see your point regarding the power of paradigm shifts. Some call it reframing. In this case I call it reinventing scenarios. It seems to be a very effective survival mechanism.
I have never once in my mongering life said anything bad about another monger to a WG unless she brings it up first. If she says something about another monger, then I might just agree with her or laugh along with her. If it protects someone's ego to make up in their own mind that WGs refuse to go with them because of other monger's words, then I suppose that survival mechanism works. I just think that self examination would be better in the long run as it leads to self improvement.
Is it all that strange to lose interest in a girl when you see her being intimate with another dude, tongue down each others throats, 3 meters away? The illusion was lost. Seems normal to me but perhaps I am the strange one here. If sharing is the game, I guess seeing CIM on a girl should not make one feel any apprehension with kissing her right after.
FKKs are quite interesting places but I think social graces generally still apply. I think it is rude and insulting to other clients to interject when he tells you that he is about to session with a WG. When a fellow monger tells you that he is about to session with a girl, I think it would be appropriate to let him continue instead of interjecting in the approach. At the very least it is disrespectful. At worst it compromises his bargaining power with the girl. That's a social grace that I think most people would find to be common sense.
Perhaps you are right and I am cruel and I should let the french monger continue his fantasy. It would help if the boasting and proclamations of grandeur was toned down a bit.
Lastly, I have to ask Pistons and Polyamorist. In what nutjob cult was the FKK sauna club declared to be about kumbaya sharing of pussy? I was under the impression that FKK was simply the hijacking of the German term for free body culture implanted on a door in order to generate revenue for brothel owners, that the FKK sauna club designation served to informed the customers the infrastructure to expect and how the girls would make their earnings. I wonder if the Paradise group has a manifesto with a mission statement promoting polygamous love paradigm shifts.
How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!
You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?
Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel. And astonishingly not about the empathy of the mongering men that visit the brothel, but about the empathy of women who work there!
Optimist, if you had that "genuine" empathy yourself, that you admire in those women, could you convince these women in a brothel to fuck with you without them asking you for money? Because they realised you are the best illusion maker and you know how to creep in the heads of women?
Which leads to the question: do many of us constantly need to pay for women because we breed an overboarding illusionary trait, but suffer from a terrible lack of empathy? Smiley!I think defining empathy and distinguishing it from sympathy is in order:
Empathy. Noun. The ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
One can understand and even share that feeling without having benevolent intent. As stated, selfish intent is the goal of many girls. Empathy is used as a tool because with these feelings, they can better manipulate their clients.
On the other hand:
Sympathy. Noun. Feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.
The feeling of pity perhaps negates the ability to manipulate; however, we're talking about empathy not sympathy.
By definition, empathy means to feel what others feel. Some sociopaths just learn to mimic emotions. They understand what behaviors are rewardable and act accordingly. For instance, my neighbor could be a highly functioning sociopath. If my neighbor accidentally kills my dog with his car, he can apologize and extend his condolences, because he knows that is what is socially acceptable, but deep down he may not give a shit. Likewise a murderer may pretend to feel remorse simply to obtain a lighter sentence.
So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. In other words, the WG may view the client through a different lens. In the case of fly-in clients who spend all their free time in FKK clubs or locals who spend every weekend in FKK clubs, she can rationalize "This monger is a lonely man who has nobody in his life. He would fall in love with any woman who reciprocates his affection. If I don't take, advantage of him, someone else will. " She feels no remorse when asking for a sum that would put such a monger into debt, because in her mind, "he deserves it". She simply reasons "he desperately wants to fall in love and to be loved, so I am simply giving him what he asked for".
Rationalization is incredibly powerful. This is true for cybercriminals, unscrupulous WGs or any other type of scam artist from a poor country. There are many ways that they can absolve themselves from guilt or justify their wrongdoings. "he is rich, he won't miss it". "he is from a rich country, he will have other opportunities to recover financially. " or "His parents will die soon and he will bounce back financially after he gets his inheritance" or "Insurance will cover their financial losses". "Everyone else I know is doing it". Many other ways to dehumanize their marks or victims.
Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them. Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.I totally agree with what both you and Takedown said regarding this. And as Takedown says, you can frame it as sympathy, empathy or whatever you want. But I still think as a global phenomenon in all sorts of different contexts, empahty as a trait is a better mindset than the other things you can frame it as. Be it a techniques of extracting money or whatever. My example of empathy here was mainly to link the discussion to the sex topic. I could just as much have turned it around and said that empathy from guys towards girls would be to hand them money after having sex for just 3 minutes if her pussy hurts. Then I suppose my comment would seem less selfish to the general critical sensationalist I suppose.
Has there been life on earth before someone talked about "game theory"? Smiley.You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself. You don't need to talk about a round earth for the earth to have been round since life started developing on the planet earth.
I also think everyone here understands the difference between sympathy and empathy. And we all hold empathy ethically in higher regard. As I have mentioned before, my take on a girl at an FKK is that she is something of a quasi psychologist we men pays to be with. And a good psychologist manages to display empathy. A not so good one may show more traces of sympathy. It is easier to turn this mental idea around towards the women due to the men coming in as customers, and paying them for their time.
This story has been posted here before by someone:
https://nypost.com/2017/11/11/sex-worker-with-over-10000-partners-reveals-what-men-really-want/
CaneUppHosAss
02-13-19, 03:48
How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!
You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?
Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel.Hello Herr G,
You are right to observe that the illusion is in the monger's head, his property. My analogy would be that this illusion is a sculpture brought out of a rock. The sculpture was already in the rock but it takes the sculptor to chisel out the shape from the rock. Without a sculptor, the rock just remains a rock. That is the role of a good WG. Empathy, sympathy and other -pathy's are her tools to bring this illusion to fruition. A monger falling in love with a WG is, to me, like a client commissioning a sculptor to create a beautiful stone figure for him, finds it so life like and falls in love. In the end, it is still just a sculpture, an illusion, not a real woman.
By definition, empathy means to feel what others feel. Some sociopaths just learn to mimic emotions. They understand what behaviors are rewardable and act accordingly. For instance, my neighbor could be a highly functioning sociopath. If my neighbor accidentally kills my dog with his car, he can apologize and extend his condolences, because he knows that is what is socially acceptable, but deep down he may not give a shit. Likewise a murderer may pretend to feel remorse simply to obtain a lighter sentence.
So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. In other words, the WG may view the client through a different lens. In the case of fly-in clients who spend all their free time in FKK clubs or locals who spend every weekend in FKK clubs, she can rationalize "This monger is a lonely man who has nobody in his life. He would fall in love with any woman who reciprocates his affection. If I don't take, advantage of him, someone else will. " She feels no remorse when asking for a sum that would put such a monger into debt, because in her mind, "he deserves it". She simply reasons "he desperately wants to fall in love and to be loved, so I am simply giving him what he asked for"..That is your best post of the year. And the best regarding empathy I suppose. Needs a repost, so here is the bump.
I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her. I can add Kity, but Katea for sure would be happy to still get now my business. Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.What's your secret? Really. Is it the poetry? Secret moves in bed? Or one must be blessed with a 0.5 m cock to have your skills with prostitutes?
Sebastiane
02-13-19, 14:31
I know that the USA doesn't have FKK clubs and that sex work is generally illegal outside Nevada I think but obviously Americans must have paid for sex just like anyone else. Assuming money isn't a factor (if an American can fly to Germany for sex then he can afford to pay for sexy at home too!) where do the middle class or professional classes get their paid sex from? Is it from escorts or sugar babies or girls from strip clubs. I'm not a member of the USA forum but I did have a quick look at the Las Vegas forum (since Vegas has an international reputation as the city of sin!) but some of the pictures of the street girls there which some posted were 5's at best (wouldn't do them for free) so where do American guys go in Vegas (or elsewhere) to get the 8's, 9's, 10's without leaving the USA?
Because with high rollers in a place like Vegas you'the think there'the be tons of beautiful girls available right? Say I had a budget of 1000 $ - 2000 $ per day for girls, what kind of paid pussy could I get in Vegas? (This isn't in the USA forum as I'm not a member there). Can you get 9's and 10's in the USA for sex work? I'm sure you can but what will it cost you and how do you go about it? (I'm excluding Sugar Babies as I've done that last time I was in the USA). How would an average girl at Sharks or Oase compare with an average girl in Vegas?
All this talk of empathy and sympathy. Who gives a damn? Does she take it nuts deep up the butt hole and receive cum shots to the forehead? That's what we want to know! Hahaha! Shots, shots, shots, shots! LOLOLOL!
I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her.
I can add to your list : Kity and Katea who for sure would be happy to still get now my business , when she is smiling each time . Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.Pistons, had same experience than you with same, and not only one, jealousy is international disease increasing in FKK land, when so easy to be efficient with skill and sport, rather than only talking.
CaneUppHosAss
02-13-19, 20:52
Hello Sir,
Vegas is a hit and miss. Since you said you know SBs, I will exclude those. I have spent anywhere from $250 to as much as $1200 in Vegas, the latter amount for porn stars and other very high end and obviously a small percent of my total sessions in Vegas. I have also had some luck convincing strippers at a couple of local joints like Spearmint to join me for relatively high amounts but they also need a bit of work and will not go with everyone.
There are a few brothels in driving distance of Vegas which are legal but not good. I prefer the ones closer to Reno and if you can go to Europe even better.
US tends be a mix and not a blackhole as some people imagine. Use discretion, spend some time and due diligence, you can obtain decent paid sex.
Empathy. TheCane humorously makes the point which I would make. I argued that empathy is a great asset for a working girl, from her own utilitarian standpoint, but, however much empathy she has, her job is to make money. So, she wants to make money, and we want sex (or whatever we seek). TheCane reminds us of this very appropriately.
As McAdonis says, empathy is not the same as pretending to have empathy (often a skilled con person can appear to be empathetic). In general I go along with Pistons that empathy is a positive.
Nick, you assume that empathy means a total transference of priorities to the object (of that empathy). False assumption. Having empathy for a person does not mean we give them loads of money and ignore our own lives. But, as Pistons suggests, maybe we might modify our behaviour: I have indeed been in a room with girls suffering from migraines and God knows what, and even extended them into long sessions so the girl can rest. But maybe that was just to boost my self-image as an empathetic guy LOL. Anyway, if we have empathy we need to use it for ourselves as well (maybe compassion is a better word).
No need to nail all this down to any firm conclusions, but if we mix up all our differing contributions, it is clear that for us, buying sex is not a brutal inhuman exploitation that so often the politicians suggest. Maybe there is more humanity in these posts than in some political parties.
If I have misrepresented anyone's views, apologies.
All this talk of empathy and sympathy. Who gives a damn? Does she take it nuts deep up the butt hole and receive cum shots to the forehead? That's what we want to know! Hahaha! Shots, shots, shots, shots! LOLOLOL!You have a secret passage to the inside of my head. While writing my previous post about empathy, my main interest was not what I was writing but rather thinking which girls I was going to ge able to fuck how later this week. Including where I was going to cum. LOL.
Neurosynth
02-13-19, 23:08
You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself. Wrong. The kinds of phenomena that game theory studies have been around since life itself. But game theory is the mathematical study of that phenomena. And game theory, that study, has been around for less than one hundred years. It was invented by John von Neumann in the 1940's.
Takedown,
1. Terrible session never means a session is wasted. It just wasn't worth a repeat. Maybe if someone doesn't get his blood flowing or is impotent, then a terrible session can mean it is wasted.
2. Excuses for possessive attitude leads nowhere no matter the reasoning. True or false, they don't matter. Without me going into my almost completely different observations of your descriptions. Word against word.
3. Are you chatting with KK? I reread my post and it is quite obvious. The 'nutjob' addition is added as an ironic example of all posters on ISG. It is called irony.
I go to FKK to have sex, to fulfill my lust knowing FKK is a brothel, but many mongers seems to be going there for different purposes also like communicating with opposite sex, practicing social skills and empathy is so far what I heard here, I think before feeling empathy we are part of this prostitution or pimping business model, so I think we are guilty from that stand point and one may argue that we give them money because we feel empathy, yes we do, after we stick our penis into her mouth, ass and pussy and make them lick our body LOL! I mean. We are the demand, that is why they supply, we are all in same boat here called prostitution business model.
I think we should not treat girls in bad manner or we may give respect to some of the FKK girls for remaining such a warm person after all these hard situations in their life because some of them are really warm hearted, but hey we exploit them also for their situation, we should not be self righteous because we are the cause of all this, without supply, they would not be there chasing their fast cash that we give in exchange of our need of putting our penis into their mouth, pussy and ass LOL.
Wrong. The kinds of phenomena that game theory studies have been around since life itself. But game theory is the mathematical study of that phenomena. And game theory, that study, has been around for less than one hundred years. It was invented by John von Neumann in the 1940's.OK wise guy. So I was talking about the phenomena. Not that I agree with your semantics, but if it makes you feel better.
Empathy. TheCane humorously makes the point which I would make. I argued that empathy is a great asset for a working girl, from her own utilitarian standpoint, but, however much empathy she has, her job is to make money. So, she wants to make money, and we want sex (or whatever we seek). TheCane reminds us of this very appropriately.
As McAdonis says, empathy is not the same as pretending to have empathy (often a skilled con person can appear to be empathetic). In general I go along with Pistons that empathy is a positive.
Nick, you assume that empathy means a total transference of priorities to the object (of that empathy). False assumption. Having empathy for a person does not mean we give them loads of money and ignore our own lives. But, as Pistons suggests, maybe we might modify our behaviour: I have indeed been in a room with girls suffering from migraines and God knows what, and even extended them into long sessions so the girl can rest. But maybe that was just to boost my self-image as an empathetic guy LOL. Anyway, if we have empathy we need to use it for ourselves as well (maybe compassion is a better word).
No need to nail all this down to any firm conclusions, but if we mix up all our differing contributions, it is clear that for us, buying sex is not a brutal inhuman exploitation that so often the politicians suggest. Maybe there is more humanity in these posts than in some political parties.
If I have misrepresented anyone's views, apologies.Mainly correct I suppose, but you missed my game theory point. Basically saying the same as McAdonis, although I had a slightly different take on it. McAdonis take on empathy as different from pretending to be empathy is in that sense negative. In the case you mention it to be, it is to make you feel better. So a positive. My theoretical take on it was neutral. As in game theory. And I believe (without any links if any smartass want to ask for it), that we instinctivly are good to other and show empathy in orders in order to obtain something more. Perhaps just subconsciously. Not necessarily allways negative, nor positive. It can be both or neighter. The world is very grey.
I did wrote that McAdoni's post was very good. It was to show that side of the discussion. It doesn't mean however that I agree with the psychological distinction of a sociopath more than it being just a theoretical idea. Yes, there might be some brain areas lighting up more with the so called sociopaths, but it can just as well be a cocktail of other more natural feelings that person has. Loners, people with messed up hormonal imbalances, or a whole range of environmental factors. 'Sociopathic tendencies' might be a better term, but it is still negative framing in the context of empathy. At least since she does consider this a job. And as someone who has worked in sales, being a good seller does not make you a sociopath. It just makes you a good seller. And there are several ways to reach that goal. Still, it is very good for a buyer to know of all the angles you can have on the empathy shown.
Polyamorist
02-14-19, 02:16
You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself. Wallah Pistons, the problem with game theory is that it assumes human beings make rational choices. So it is not very good at predicting the behavior of 40-year old guys much less 20-year old girls.
Takedown,
1. Terrible session never means a session is wasted. It just wasn't worth a repeat. Maybe if someone doesn't get his blood flowing or is impotent, then a terrible session can mean it is wasted.
2. Excuses for possessive attitude leads nowhere no matter the reasoning. True or false, they don't matter. Without me going into my almost completely different observations of your descriptions. Word against word.
3. Are you chatting with KK? I reread my post and it is quite obvious. The 'nutjob' addition is added as an ironic example of all posters on ISG. It is called irony.1. Okay, whatever it takes to find peace after a loss. Still a terrible session that could have been avoided if one listens and heeds. It was a terrible sequence of events nonetheless, dropping another 75 on nothing. I have sympathy for you with that loss, although it was self inflicted and could have easily and predictably been avoided. What do I know? You were only warned at every step a mistake was being made. I suppose it is a blow to the ego to admit that.
2. Speaking of excuses, they are often made for oneself when rejected by others, worse when a WG finds you are not worth the time and money. It's even more sad when in order to deflect, one points fingers at anyone but himself. Regarding interjection, even other parties present said intruding was wrong. Blaming others is a poor substitute for self awareness.
3. Yes we spoke. In fact another party brought it to his attention. That makes at least 3 parties who read something other than what you claim you intended.
Bonus: Again, who deemed FKKs bastions of sharing pussy and not just another form of German brothel. Fake news for cultist nutjobs.
So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. Not 100% sure if you are saying these WGs don't have true empathy; but if so, I want to interject that empathy and conscience are not inclusive. One can have true empathy but still betray one's own conscience. Empathy merely means you can feel what the other person is feeling, but does not imply that you feel a moral obligation to them.
Wallah Pistons, the problem with game theory is that it assumes human beings make rational choices. So it is not very good at predicting the behavior of 40-year old guys much less 20-year old girls.True, it is not perfect. Especially when the big heads ideas conflict with the smaller ones. LOL. Or the two voices in the head of the little girl speaks. One angel and one demon. But I think there is more to the subconscious mind than most people think. But then we might have to start discussing what is free will. Does free will exist? We don't have any proof. But we know person A always takes a choice. And that choice is based on his judgement of previous impulses. Like a butterfly effect.
Edit: what I ment was: we don't know for sure how much of a choice we really have. If any. These are only theories. And far out philosophy, or physics. Determinism contradicts free will, and that is the only thing we can find out through a study.
https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/does-free-will-exist-in-the-universe-that-would-be-a-no
(Takedown: maybe I subconsciously had a determined idea of testing your possessive trait there by moving up on a grey zone. And the test came out valid through an overreaction)
Nick The G
02-14-19, 23:47
You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself.Wow! What a relief! So what you tell us is: the pure existence of game theory itself is the first scientifically valid proof for the existence of God? Congratulations!
Wow! What a relief! So what you tell us is: the pure existence of game theory itself is the first scientifically valid proof for the existence of God? Congratulations!Nope, but some old people should lay off the coffee, and stop listening to old fairy tales of Gods and such.
Nick The G
02-15-19, 00:49
Talking about psychic abilities and interactions is not easy. I would rate clairsentience as a highly developed level of empathy.
But here we are talking about a context, where sex is instrumentalized / commercialized and the will or need to spend / earn money is the dominating force. So I assume we are talking about lower levels of empathy.
And there is another thing, not uncommon in the context of prostitution. For example, if men or women suffer from borderline personality disorder, it is a well known phenomenon that they can have a radar-like sensitivity of what the other needs / wants. But this type of "getting into the head of another" is not what we normally understand as "empathy".
Nick The G
02-15-19, 00:59
Nope, but some old people should lay off the coffee, and stop listening to old fairy tales of Gods and such.True, nowadays we yearn for new fairytales, told by modern priest-like figures!
I will just make a short summary instead:
2: Even if money was the main contributor, then name calling is always a negative impulse that doesn't help. The only intervention was the pushing. Everything else was at the highest manners and shouldn't be any problem at all if one knows how to talk to people. But maybe you are right that we need to learn social skills in FKK's. What others mean is irrelevant when it is word against word.
About the bonus question: The only cult we have here is the monogamous cult. I once read a book called 'Combating Cult Mind Control' by Steven Hassan. He points to 4 distinctions regarding what a cult is.
One is hierarchical leaders. A fully polygamous society with orgies everywhere should not have leaders. But a monogamous society always has. Plus monogamous societies have a monetary structured society also. Very hierarchical.
The second one is books where rules are displayed. Monogamy has this today through laws and where people bind themselves through written marriage pacts. Nothing of this sort in a complete polygamous society full of orgies all the time.
The third one is ceremonies: Lets just say monogamous people have weddings. And some also celebrate anniversaries when it comes to monogamy.
The fourth one is rituals: You put on engagement rings and marriage rings. Nothing of the sort in a polygamous orgie based model.
Result: Monogamy is a total 100% destructive cult according to Steven Hassan's book. It brainwashes people, and must be thus be combated to avoid extremism, wars and all sorts of bad things.
True, nowadays we yearn for new fairytales, told by modern priest-like figures!Here I am advocating determinism, and you keep talking about priests and gods. I think you have missed a few points, so a direct reply to you is useless.
But if you look at sales theory, and all these impulses we submit and receive, then that doesn't have to relate to clairsentience. It can all be subconscious. The same goes for the link between empathy, game theory and determinism.
Takedown: I wrote 2 long replies to that last comment you made there, but seems they won't allow it. I will just make a quick reply on the last bonus question you did: There is a book called "Combating Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan. And according to that one we can easily define monogamy as a 100% complete destructive cult. Polygamous orgies all the time societies without a hierarchy however is pretty much the opposite of a cult.
I will just make a short summary instead:
2: Even if money was the main contributor, then name calling is always a negative impulse that doesn't help. The only intervention was the pushing. Everything else was at the highest manners and shouldn't be any problem at all if one knows how to talk to people. But maybe you are right that we need to learn social skills in FKK's. What others mean is irrelevant when it is word against word.
About the bonus question: The only cult we have here is the monogamous cult. I once read a book called 'Combating Cult Mind Control' by Steven Hassan. He points to 4 distinctions regarding what a cult is..When a person's blood rushes so much to his pecker away from his head, his sense of hearing often shuts off. Without blood, he cannot hear another person's request to back off. Like a dog that doesn't listen, sometimes you have to get that dog back in line by means that lets him know that you're serious.
It's funny that you say that opinions of others do not matter. That's exactly how court arbitration works. Word against word, and a third party determines whose version is more plausible. Apparently it was was made clear but not to your liking so the only option left is to vent frustrations on ISG.
Try as you might, when it's practiced by the majority of non-nutjobs, it's called culture not a cult. I know, same root words. I can see why that can be confusing.
To summarize, Monogamy is our culture. Polygamy is a cult.
I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after.Still the most troubling accusation of all, a purely constructed scenario that has yet to be explained. I know we can live out fantasies in FKKs but they are usually about sexual activities with women. Accusing other men of things to explain rejection is very revealing of personal character. I would feel bad if rejected by a WG, but my first thought would be "what am I doing to cause the person to feel this way about me," not blaming it on others.
Still the most troubling accusation of all, a purely constructed scenario that has yet to be explained. I know we can live out fantasies in FKKs but they are usually about sexual activities with women. Accusing other men of things to explain rejection is very revealing of personal character. I would feel bad if rejected by a WG, but my first thought would be "what am I doing to cause the person to feel this way about me," not blaming it on others.When everyone thinks like you, upselling reaches new levels. Because one would rather pay 200 euro for a 3-some instead of holding ones ground. Still calling another guy an idiot is silly, and a negative impulse. That was the point I made. Nothing more, even if you try to derail it.
When it comes to the dog argument, that person just finnished a room and hormones were all dead. While other people hearing his side side of the story just shook their heads in disbelief. But possessiveness is when someone cannot stand another person talking to a girl he considers to have ownership over, when being at a distance. Which is quite the mad idea in an FKK. Quite a big reason for many girls ending relationships with men nowadays is possessive traits like the guy freaking out if his girl talks to other men, according to a female friend of mine who works at a psychology firm.
Polygamy may be a cult, as that is one man having several wives. But a many to many (think like a database) polygamous structured society may not have to be one. I thought we were over this semantics discussion though.
As there are no such things as rituals, ceremonies, hierarchies nor holy / legal books (the defining characteristics of a cult) describing full out polyagous orgies. Only ones lassiez faire natural sexual ways. So I find it hard to agree with your cult description on what I have talked about here.
You do have a good point regarding culture having cult as a root word though. Every culture is cultist. And maybe that is why the world leaders (the people behind the politicians who actually have brains) are trying to fend off cultures, and melt them all together in a quasi multicultural environment. Because of all the hatred and 'racism' we see when cultures clash. The clash of separate warring destructive cults.
But ofcourse, unless people try to look outside the box, conflics will go on, and in 100 years or so, some lunatic crazed brainwashed cultural cultist will blow up a nuke where our families live.
Neurosynth
02-16-19, 02:05
Wallah Pistons, the problem with game theory is that it assumes human beings make rational choices. So it is not very good at predicting the behavior of 40-year old guys much less 20-year old girls.
Game theory is not in the business of predicting human behavior per se. It is merely the (mathematical) analysis of competitive situations in principle, and typically the derivation of optimal strategies.
But it turns out that even animals other than humans will often behave in ways that game theory would judge as being optimal or highly optimized. The fact that animals without man's overgrown prefrontal cortex will, nevertheless, tend towards optimal behavior implies that behavior is innate rather than learned or deduced. I. e. It may have little to do with "rationality" and much more to do with a response to evolutionary pressure.
Polyamorist
02-16-19, 03:05
Well, only in today's societal context is this true. Change certain basic criteria, and you can have a paradigm change. It won't be exactly like in an FKK, but the world outside of the sandbox can move towards it. Future technology can be the cause of such paradigm changes.When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.
Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.
Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.
When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.
Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.
Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.Very true! But is it hard to predict what people will do with their spare time. And there will probably be bonuses going out to innovative people who can do what robots still cannot do.
Travelling will probably go through the roof. But it is hard to say if people will still waste hundred of hours playing computer games, or if sports, fitness and gym will be the new deal. You see a lot of rich people these days. Even computer geeks spending 10+ hours at the gym every week. 15 years ago that was an oxymoron.
Game theory is not in the business of predicting human behavior per se. It is merely the (mathematical) analysis of competitive situations in principle, and typically the derivation of optimal strategies.
But it turns out that even animals other than humans will often behave in ways that game theory would judge as being optimal or highly optimized. The fact that animals without man's overgrown prefrontal cortex will, nevertheless, tend towards optimal behavior implies that behavior is innate rather than learned or deduced. I. e. It may have little to do with "rationality" and much more to do with a response to evolutionary pressure.I am not sure if you are arguing against my stance here, or adding to it. Since you are mirroring what I said and linked to. Just using different words. What you describe is basically determinism.
Member #4636
02-16-19, 07:48
After plenty of visits to 4 clubs I have noticed that only Artemis does accept entrance payment with debit or credit card and gives a receipt for that.
All other clubs not only ask for cash only but they never give me a receipt. I once asked for a receipt and they gave me a piece of paper which was not a receipt.
So just look at the title of the topic and figure.
When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.
Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.
Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.Interesting with all the talk of being replaced by robots, and yet you think Sauna Clubs will be the last place you will find women working. In October 2018 I read an article about a brothel in Houston Texas that was met with resistance. This was nothing unusual, except for the fact that the providers were robots, designed for the purpose of providing pleasure.
Interestingly, in the last 15 days, I read a similar article about robots replacing humans I the work force. In this article, the projected survivors were finding alternative activities to maintain a healthy lifestyle. As for me, I hope that the rise of the robots is slow enough that Sauna Clubs are still using real women to provide pleasure during the duration of my active hobbying.
When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.
Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.
Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.Wait a second, wait a second! Like Mr. Ho pointed out a long time ago, the robots will be taking over at the FKK clubs too! So that means not even jobs at the FKKs for the girls either! Times will be so hard, pimps will be laying off tutes! Ahahahaha! Well, at least the FKK robotic tutes can be programmed to provide top-notch service without fail every single time! LOL!
When the robots take all the jobs, a lot more of us guys will have nothing to do except spend our time in FKKs and similar environments. And women will have no jobs either, except FKK jobs. So much for the diehard monogamists. There will be a lot more drugs too.
Some will hate the laziness of it all. But it's better than people just hanging out on the streets starting fights.
Oh brave new world! Better get used to it.There may be basic income system installed to some society in certain part of the world. Though at the moment more against than for, but if it goes through, then we mongers may face problem.
I encourage anyone who wants to do a threesome with Adele and Carla at Oase to do so. They are great together. Please don't let people of lesser means discourage you, especially if it is your own choice to do so. Carla has a lot of regulars so she doesn't need the 50 euro guys, good for her. The good thing is she will still give good service for club rate at 100 euro for 1 hour to guys who don't creep her out.
Pahllus Maximus
02-16-19, 22:49
I know a really old but very clever and sprightly brothel madam, in her 80's in Berlin. She has seen it all and we made friends. Her summary is this: the top earning and popular girls are actresses who adapt to the client. Their customers tell lots of stories as well. It is fantasy land. Girls do it for money or other advantages alone with few exceptions. Empathy, manipulation, whatever, just like a master salesman or con artist, they tailor the message to whatever the occasion demands. The phone sex lines are the pinnacle of this chameleon type skill. If I was a female, I'd learn it fast as my income depends on it , and most girls have trait this bred in and reinforced in their socialization. They "Daaaaaaad" warning of teenager girls shows their innate social skills .
Men by contrast are a combination of an ancient DNA programmed urge of impregnating pretty and healthy young things before starvation or a lion eats the caveman for dinner and / or having their egos stroked. Just as dogs are bred for friendliness, we now know that Williams-Beuren type genes are at play. Our illusion of free will is mostly just that. FKK's are sexual disneyland for men. We know Disneyland and operas and movies are temporary fun. Don't over analyze. It is the human condition. Enjoy, because life is short and boners tend become less frequent and strong as time marches on.
I know a really old but very clever and sprightly brothel madam, in her 80's in Berlin. She has seen it all and we made friends. Her summary is this: the top earning and popular girls are actresses who adapt to the client. Their customers tell lots of stories as well. It is fantasy land. Girls do it for money or other advantages alone with few exceptions. Empathy, manipulation, whatever, just like a master salesman or con artist, they tailor the message to whatever the occasion demands. The phone sex lines are the pinnacle of this chameleon type skill. If I was a female, I'd learn it fast as my income depends on it , and most girls have trait this bred in and reinforced in their socialization. They "Daaaaaaad" warning of teenager girls shows their innate social skills .
Men by contrast are a combination of an ancient DNA programmed urge of impregnating pretty and healthy young things before starvation or a lion eats the caveman for dinner and / or having their egos stroked. Just as dogs are bred for friendliness, we now know that Williams-Beuren type genes are at play. Our illusion of free will is mostly just that. FKK's are sexual disneyland for men. We know Disneyland and operas and movies are temporary fun. Don't over analyze. It is the human condition. Enjoy, because life is short and boners tend become less frequent and strong as time marches on.Very well said and spot on. As for your last sentence, let us hope that science world will come up with even better and better medicine to that male law of physiology as we move into the future.
I encourage anyone who wants to do a threesome with Adele and Carla at Oase to do so. They are great together. Please don't let people of lesser means discourage you, especially if it is your own choice to do so. Carla has a lot of regulars so she doesn't need the 50 euro guys, good for her. The good thing is she will still give good service for club rate at 100 euro for 1 hour to guys who don't creep her out.Oh I am sure it was great. Carla especially is a nice girl in the room.
And now I have a little fairy tale I want to share:
Once upon a time there was a man named Willy. A few times a year he left the elven shores of Amfemia, and travelled to the lands of Belgium and The Netherlands. He loved Belgium especially since there they made the best chocolate in the world. Willy was on a budget. He stayed three days, and aside from travelling cost in his Zeppelin, which was mainly just helium he processed himself for free, his budget was 650 euro. On day one Willy was brings 250 e with him into his favourite chocolate factory, Wonka's Fantasyland. He spends 50 e on entry, and then notice a brand called Jasmine. Jasmine only goes to the room to serve her white strawberry flavoured chocolate if you also take Petra's dark apple flavour, for a gastronomical threesome. Total cost is 200 euro. Willy is out of money after 1 hour in the club. Later Carla comes over with her special guarana flavoured chocolate pie with a cherry on top. But Willy is out of luck. His wallet is empty. He takes his jacket on and leaves Wonka's fantasyland. He later goes to Acapulco or Finca Erotica since there he can hold a tighter budget and spends 400 e in total over 2 full days and 7 rooms total, doing only minimum priced rooms on cheaper servings. 42% of his budget goes to the brands at Wonka, and 58% of his budget goes to Aca / Finca. Two or three years ago Willy could enter Wonka's chocolate factory and stay for three days. Paying 650 euro, or using 100% of his budget on his favourite Belgian chocolate instead of driving to the Netherlands to get second rate chocolate he chooses to pay less for because the sugar content is different and he doesn't want the workers at Wonka's chocolate factory to know he is giving money to other clubs. Willy doesn't get to taste all the servings at Wonka's chocolate factory. Wonka simply just overpriced themselves. Willy later falls in love with a dutch chocolate brand at a place called Samya. Samya has a lower price for their standard chocolate, but since Willy's budget is limited, it allows him to spend more time there as opposed to at Wonka's Fantasyland. After a few more visits, Willy starts using 150 euro per serving of his favourite dutch chocolate at Samya, and takes his favourite dutch Samya chocolate with him to Amsterdam to buy herbal candy canes for Valentines day. He wants to smoke the candy canes while the chocolate melts on his tongue. But now it all started to taste so sweet, and he remembered the other chocolate brands at good ol Wonka's. So he takes a stroll in the park of Wank instead while dreaming of all the different flavoures out there in the world, and times that went past. Willy is still out there somewhere. If you look to the sky, his zeppelin is stuck in the sky as a starsign, just behind the starsign Virgin. I am sure you can all see it if you look carefully.
Polyamorist
02-17-19, 02:06
In October 2018 I read an article about a brothel in Houston Texas that was met with resistance. This was nothing unusual, except for the fact that the providers were robots, designed for the purpose of providing pleasure.
Wait a second, wait a second! Like Mr. Ho pointed out a long time ago, the robots will be taking over at the FKK clubs too! So that means not even jobs at the FKKs for the girls either! Times will be so hard, pimps will be laying off tutes! Ahahahaha! Well, at least the FKK robotic tutes can be programmed to provide top-notch service without fail every single time! LOL!Ya lahwy, FKK girls are already 5% silicon by composition, how long before they are 100% silicon? And will the robot brains be located in their boobs to save on materials and provide redundancy against damage? Two brains are better than one! But what happens if the boobs disagree about a guy? And do they get to charge for a threesome?
Sadly, we forum posters will be even easier to replace. There is already a scary metal man called GPT-2 that uses a principle called "predictive text" to churn out stuff based on a seed sentence. For example, you might input "FKKs are just a fantasy world for entitled dorks," and from that alone it could generate all the posts of Takedown at the astounding rate of 10,000 lines a second. Where does that leave us humans? The boffins are refusing to let their invention out of their lab. Just imagine all the millions of flack-like jobs that would be lost overnight.
Still the writing is on the wall (or console rather) for us kibitzers. Soon on this thread it will just be bots debating the relative merits of Adele and Carla, who will themselves be robots. Something will have been lost, though I'm not sure what to call it. Romance? Imagination? A working uterus?
Ya lahwy, FKK girls are already 5% silicon by composition, how long before they are 100% silicon? And will the robot brains be located in their boobs to save on materials and provide redundancy against damage? Two brains are better than one! But what happens if the boobs disagree about a guy? And do they get to charge for a threesome?Actually I think the main problem with sex dolls / robots these days (from what I read. LOL) is that there is too much silicon. If they want to break through on my market, they need real human skin. But I also read a story about scientists now growing real human skin on robots. So who knows? Perhaps just 50% silicone.
Wait a second, wait a second! Like Mr. Ho pointed out a long time ago, the robots will be taking over at the FKK clubs too! So that means not even jobs at the FKKs for the girls either! Times will be so hard, pimps will be laying off tutes! Ahahahaha! Well, at least the FKK robotic tutes can be programmed to provide top-notch service without fail every single time! LOL!I think most of us won't get to see the sex robots as it wishes to be in our life time, but it is becoming more real and real as we advance into the future, then I wonder what will happen to so called oldest profession in the human history called prostitution. I think organic real human prostitutes will be the most expensive than robot prostitutes, so the tendency to up sell by prostitutes will even intensify and multiply as we advance into the future.
That said, maybe, now is the time when we mongers are living among the last decades of best organic human prostitutes for such a reasonable cost. Or Robot organic prostitutes will have better technique and better pussy than human prostitutes at one point in future, well for you better anal LOL! Then physical side can be more satisfying with robot prostitutes at one point in future than human prostitutes. Mental side is ignored though because I always enjoy this feeling of fucking young beauty at her best ripe season of her life.
I do not think we will live to see such a evolution though, it will take time because for safety reason, we do not want sex robot going crashing down or going crazy once our dick is inside her? LOL.
After plenty of visits to 4 clubs I have noticed that only Artemis does accept entrance payment with debit or credit card and gives a receipt for that.
All other clubs not only ask for cash only but they never give me a receipt. I once asked for a receipt and they gave me a piece of paper which was not a receipt.
So just look at the title of the topic and figure.I buy 12 time card in Artemis also using credit card and back then there was no proper receipt beside the one I sign, which one can barely see the number due to weak ink.
However, Artemis has been busted with cops rather recently and one of the main reason was for tax. Kennan was arrested and his brother I think was also arrested, but let go after with almost free of major charge I think. Anyways since then Artemis also lost control over girls and comparison to before girls run that club. I imagine they are scared of same happening again, so Artemis is more careful.
Soon on this thread it will just be bots debating the relative merits of Adele and Carla, who will themselves be robots. Balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to.
Member #4636
02-17-19, 08:15
I encourage anyone who wants to do a threesome with Adele and Carla at Oase to do so. They are great together. Please don't let people of lesser means discourage you, especially if it is your own choice to do so. Carla has a lot of regulars so she doesn't need the 50 euro guys, good for her. The good thing is she will still give good service for club rate at 100 euro for 1 hour to guys who don't creep her out.Where these two girls working in Palace?
Member #4636
02-17-19, 15:38
I buy 12 time card in Artemis also using credit card and back then there was no proper receipt beside the one I sign, which one can barely see the number due to weak ink.
However, Artemis has been busted with cops rather recently and one of the main reason was for tax. Kennan was arrested and his brother I think was also arrested, but let go after with almost free of major charge I think. Anyways since then Artemis also lost control over girls and comparison to before girls run that club. I imagine they are scared of same happening again, so Artemis is more careful.Exactly!
I was thinking the same and I am sure this is the reason Artemis is more careful with tax issues.
Where these two girls working in Palace?Adela, Carla, Estefania work at land of upselling Oase. On 3 some girls work less.
While money is king in FKK's, charisma and a pretty face plays a role too. It helps to have all three. I get it, when someone has none of those things, inferiority complexes arise.
Oh I am sure it was great. Carla especially is a nice girl in the room.
And now I have a little fairy tale I want to share:
Polyamorist
02-18-19, 02:24
Her summary is this: the top earning and popular girls are actresses who adapt to the client.Salaam Biggus Dickus. I was recently playing hide the sausage with a red hot redhead who is training to become an actress. She was one of my best ever. Then again, maybe she was only telling me she studied theater because she realized that was what I wanted to hear. This is also a form of predictive text.
If you see a girl often she will get better and better at fitting herself around you, like a cloak made of stories. After she becomes your wife, she's like a suit you get into in the morning. But then one day you discover some folds in the fabric that weren't there before. You exclaim, "Who's been wearing my suit?" -- It used to fit so well.
See also the story "Fury" by Alastair Reynolds about space suits that adapt to people's movements and words so well that they accrete intelligence and carry on thousands of years after their owners have died inside them.
Where these two girls working in Palace?Nah, Oase. I actually think Carla individually is the best. Adele is fun with a pretty face. Doing them together was good because they are good friends. Selfies, mirrors, double BJs. It was like fucking sorority sisters.
Salaam Biggus Dickus. I was recently playing hide the sausage with a red hot redhead who is training to become an actress. She was one of my best ever. Then again, maybe she was only telling me she studied theater because she realized that was what I wanted to hear. This is also a form of predictive text.
If you see a girl often she will get better and better at fitting herself around you, like a cloak made of stories. After she becomes your wife, she's like a suit you get into in the morning. But then one day you discover some folds in the fabric that weren't there before. You exclaim, "Who's been wearing my suit?" -- It used to fit so well.
See also the story "Fury" by Alastair Reynolds about space suits that adapt to people's movements and words so well that they accrete intelligence and carry on thousands of years after their owners have died inside them.Just like Biggus Dickus wife namechanging into Incontinentia Buttocks?
In fighting, there is an old term, fighting or punching above your weight. This term was used to describe a standout fighter with the skills to defeat opponents, even those who are bigger and appear much stronger.
I've heard a lot of feedback that lineups have slipped the last few years. I agree that there appears to be a lot less new, super attractive ladies in the Sauna Clubs. I think the reality is that technology allows near realtime reporting on many forums. This let's us keep track of comings and goings at the clubs on a much closer level, even when we find ourselves half way around the world. Secondly, it seems a lot of the prostitutes are staying in the business longer. Thirdly, with the assistance of ED medications the average age of male clients is creeping higher, and to a man I his 70's and 80's a 35 year old prostitute still looks pretty good. A lot of these old guys on pension have nothing but time and money to burn.
Regardless of all this, most of the women in a SC are well above the standards that most of the Male clients could pull at a night club. For this reason, I'm happy to stay in the SC scene with the women others complain about being low level wit prostitute behavior. Without them, would be a lot less happy.
CaneUppHosAss
02-18-19, 14:23
With Euro dollar approaching 1.13, even 1.12 on some days, it is a good time for our American friends to be making a trek down to the lands of pleasure in Germany for a quick anal bang, perhaps?
A year ago, the exchange was at 1.25. If you are an American, your dollar will fetch almost 10% more Euros today.
Moreover, the growth expectation in Eurolands is again getting worse (which is one of the main reasons that drove up the exchange rate in favor of dollar). Perhaps a few more girls will enter these clubs as they can't find meaningful job prospects outside the club.
Not 100% sure if you are saying these WGs don't have true empathy; but if so, I want to interject that empathy and conscience are not inclusive. One can have true empathy but still betray one's own conscience. Empathy merely means you can feel what the other person is feeling, but does not imply that you feel a moral obligation to them.WGs who are able to inflict extreme financial and emotional pain onto their victim, but still able to fall asleep at night, fall into one or more of these categories: (1) sociopath who does not feel true empathy and actually derives joy from hurting others (2) feels true empathy but uses "neutralization techniques" to clear her conscience or (3) feels true empathy but lacks "conventional" morality. These points more or less come from authorities in the field of criminology, which I quote below for background reading.
Number of true sociopaths in general population are between 1-3 percent. I suspect that percentage might be slightly higher with con-artists, but short answer to your question is that I believe most WGs who push the illusion too far to maximize their own financial gain fall under categories two and three above. That said not all WGs want to be con-artists, or they set their own limits. When the self-deception no longer assuages their guilt, they may sever the relationship with the lovesick monger. This allows them to say "I hustled him, but at least I did not financially cripple him, so I am still a moral person". This is no different than say a robber who breaks into homes, steals all the electronics and jewerlry, but leaves the kid's video game system and family dog.
Regarding neutralization techniques, it was coined back in the 1950's. Most people have a concept of an "ideal self" that generally is influenced by societal norms. When any behavior deviates from this ideal self, self-deception kicks in to assuage one's guilt. Let's take soldiers for instance. Most people believe the act of killing another human is morally wrong (unless one is a sociopath / psychopath of course). But if one can be convinced that they did it for their religion, for their country, or for their family, this "barbaric" act becomes easier. As I mentioned before, finding ways to dehumanize the enemy also lowers inhibition. https://www.voa.org/moral-injury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techniques_of_neutralization.
Regarding unconventional sense of morality: this idea pertains to the Sub-Cultural Theory which attempts to explain why certain segments of society (I. E poor people) commit more crimes. Subcultures invert the values of mainstream society. Street-fights, robbery, and grafitti in poorer communities are considered praiseworthy. For a street kid say in Brazil or Colombia, these acts confer status from their peer group. These poor people often feel the system is stacked against them, and legitimate avenues to "success" are not available to them, and thus robbing a fat-white tourist from a foreign country is permissible. Success is defined differently, as is morality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcultural_theory.
The direct person-to-person deception of another individual can involve utter ruthlessness. This may take such extreme forms as the person who takes a widow into his or her confidence and leaves her penniless. Offenders of this type may manifest a number of traits including lack of affection or empathy, lack of remorse and a general lack of conventional conscience.
Many con artists also seemed to have a misanthropic view of human nature and assumed that others were as scheming and dishonest as they were. There is no doubt that generating a dislike and lack of respect for the victim makes it easier to treat them badly. As one con man said, any people I dont like I can hustle better
They blame their victims for being stupid or deserving of their fate, they minimise the harmful consequences of their actions or they may simply display an arrogant indifference. They are also likely to believe that it is a dog-eat-dog world and everyone is out for number one.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/323c/bb963ebaf4f386fd97c3109fe4cb761b67fd.pdf
With Euro dollar approaching 1.13, even 1.12 on some days, it is a good time for our American friends to be making a trek down to the lands of pleasure in Germany for a quick anal bang, perhaps?
A year ago, the exchange was at 1.25. If you are an American, your dollar will fetch almost 10% more Euros today.
Moreover, the growth expectation in Eurolands is again getting worse (which is one of the main reasons that drove up the exchange rate in favor of dollar). Perhaps a few more girls will enter these clubs as they can't find meaningful job prospects outside the club.If you had written this post 9 months ago, I would have agreed. But right now it seems as if the world is heading towards a new financial crisis. Germany just barely avoided a 2nd quarter in a row with a negative GDP growth rate. Credit card loans in USA is now at about 7000 usd per household compared to 6000 early last year. In China, the total debt per GDP is even higher than in USA and Japan now, and empty houses and empty everything is going to put a sudden stop this illusion of growth in our ponzi scheme world economy before the year is over.
100% sure. Unless FED reverts their stance, and actually reduces interest rates before June, and rises them as foretold, I am willing to bet anyone here 500 euro that we will see a financial crisis in 2019. Be it in China, US or Europe. Most likely starting in China before spreading fast like a house of cards.
Moreover, the growth expectation in Eurolands is again getting worse (which is one of the main reasons that drove up the exchange rate in favor of dollar). Perhaps a few more girls will enter these clubs as they can't find meaningful job prospects outside the club.There is an old saying: Once taxi drivers starts giving out advice regarding the stock market, it is a good time to sell!
The moral is that when normal people start believing in growth, the next bust is very near! I believe thus we are approaching that point very rapidly now. But perhaps not going to see the big burst before in the 2nd half of the year.
CaneUppHosAss
02-18-19, 21:33
Gentlemen,
The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex. The ladies probably have their Forum to discuss men.
Let's get back to the subject.
Thank You,
Jackson
WGs who are able to inflict extreme financial and emotional pain onto their victim, but still able to fall asleep at night, fall into one or more of these categories: (1) sociopath who does not feel true empathy and actually derives joy from hurting others (2) feels true empathy but uses "neutralization techniques" to clear her conscience or (3) feels true empathy but lacks "conventional" morality. These points more or less come from authorities in the field of criminology, which I quote below for background reading.Right. You are explaining the reasoning behind the ability to separate empathy and actions exemplary of traditional morality. So these WGs are capable of truly relating to and empathizing with the monger. Some of them just have moral codes that allow them to exploit a man's lust or loneliness.
If you had written this post 9 months ago, I would have agreed. But right now it seems as if the world is heading towards a new financial crisis. Germany just barely avoided a 2nd quarter in a row with a negative GDP growth rate. Credit card loans in USA is now at about 7000 usd per household compared to 6000 early last year. In China, the total debt per GDP is even higher than in USA and Japan now, and empty houses and empty everything is going to put a sudden stop this illusion of growth in our ponzi scheme world economy before the year is over.
100% sure. Unless FED reverts their stance, and actually reduces interest rates before June, and rises them as foretold, I am willing to bet anyone here 500 euro that we will see a financial crisis in 2019. Be it in China, US or Europe. Most likely starting in China before spreading fast like a house of cards.I have an interesting perspective on this, having lived in Europe long enough to be crushed a couple times by the exchange rate fluctuations. Look back to 2003, early 2004 and you see a near 1-1 rate. Then with elections, wars, elections, etc. You can see the US economy falling against other countries. For a government, an easy way to stimulate the economy was to suppress the value of the USA dollar. With nearly 1.5 to 1 rates during the Obama presidency foreign countries were spending heavily in the US. Trump has done what he pledged, put the USA first. His negotiations on trade deals have often been hard to swallow, but the have stimulated the markets in some ways, allowing interest rates and exchange rates to correct, or regress, depending on your perspective. I think they are in the current neighborhood until Rump is no longer president and the president who follows him start rescinding the Trump Legislation and Executive Orders.
While money is king in FKK's, charisma and a pretty face plays a role too. It helps to have all three. I get it, when someone has none of those things, inferiority complexes arise.So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.
Sebastiane
02-19-19, 17:43
I have had, I think, a fairly high number of threesomes with various girls in a number of FKKs all over Germany (and one in Globe so far!) as well as one in Peru (non professionals). What are your favourite threesomes? My first ever 3 some was with Emel and a German girl at Palace. My last one was at Globe with Carmen and Bella. The most unexpected was with 2 girls in Peru (non pros); the most disappointing one was in Artemis last time I went there! I'm still not sure if a threesome is better than taking each of the girls separately but it is a male fantasy that never grows stale! The best ever was at Atmos when one of the girls licked my ass while her friend blew me!
It can be a good way of experiencing two girls quickly if one has a long list of targets. I want to try 3 girls next. That would be awesome.
So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.Original post really just applied to anyone who was having trouble with girls rejecting them, whether in cluns or real life. It's better than constructing false realities.
So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.Did I miss the facial transplant somewhere? I thought I read three attributes that can be of a benefit. I think it's more rewarding to work hard and increase your earnings rather than undergo surgery. Even an updated face doesn't mean a person would overcome limited social skills. It may also benefit to take a public speaking or confidence building course. But like a nice lady told me last night. Why bother with continuing this type of discussion, instead be happy and enjoy the company of a nice woman. Oh, here she comes now.
It's worth pointing out the importance of periodically stepping outside of the mongering and internet worlds. Staying only in these worlds seem to be pretty limiting to personality growth. The constant unearned "yes" heard from working girls inevitably warps one's reality of self. A little confidence is great but losing the reality check from real women creates a delusion of grandeur. Worse, when one is rejected from a WG, it may send one down a path of constructed realities.
Even if staying away from extended mongering trips, mongering abstinence at home also helps keep one grounded in reality and social interactions. Living isolated lives in Norwegian fishing villages, Japanese Manboos, or car camping in Audi wagons while mongering cannot be good for psychiatric health. In addition to removing the impetus for improving social skills, these isolated realities may even distract one from progressing up one's career to make more income or inhibit motivation for keeping up with health and physical appearance. Mongers who are in particular danger are childless men who have no true relationships to keep them grounded.
Obtaining a real date with a normal girl, even if she is 30 years old and 5 pounds overweight, can help to keep one in tune with reality. A normal holiday, seeing something new, allows one to experience reality and enrich one's existence. Some volunteer work or mission trips may even connect one to people in need, giving you a deeper purpose. Living in front of a computer screen at work only to return to a screen at home with intermittent visits to prostitutes is hardly a healthy existence. It would inevitably lead to the construction of false realities of the real world. I've witnessed these delusions first hand with some mongers. But I have faith that deep down there is a loneliness, a yearning for real human interaction. That loneliness that I sense is actually a glimmer of hope that there is some humanity left in the socially isolated monger.
So basically you are advocating for male facial transplants. Well I would advice against that in case you are considering it. You never know if you will end up even further in the uncanny valley, or if girls might walk over to you due to looks and charisma. Better just sticking to your initial sentence and keep the money for the girls instead of the surgeons.German Lucifer might be blind to some charisma, but one year later, even leaving our upselling kissing last room at Palace after not more than 15 mn, she forgot this, but didn't forget what she discovered before. I wonder if Adela Oase also feels this often? Sporty guys are sporty in bed and I enjoy so much to listen to pretty women body.
Sporty guys are sporty in bed and I enjoy so much to listen to pretty women body.Very true. One can have an orgasm lasting 40 seconds. The polar opposite of this sporty attitude is when one smokes too much, and cannot get it up. To me, any minute in room with a dead tower, is a minute wasted.
For example, smoking cannabis is a major problem in today's world as more and more countries legalize the herb. The resulted depression could lead to young adults seeking escapist routes, from internet games, to travelling far away to find friends long way away from home. Thankfully, there is a new term these days known as the global village where everyone can discuss these things over the internet. We can fly across half the world in one day, and have sex with people from other continents. It is a glorious time to be alive, but in order to enjoy, sports is crucial to heighten the senses. Otherwise, one could end up in a downward spiral.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/13/cannabis-smoking-in-teenage-years-linked-to-adulthood-depression
I once had a friend who lost his mom to cancer, and had no near relative left. He grew weed at home, hated immigrants, was racist and usually played computer games in his spare time. Basically not giving a fuck, and told me about suicidal thoughts he had. He liked rap music, and his mind was like most rappers who rap about hate, crime and chaos.
Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort. He moved away from home early. Lived in a 2 million city (Copenhagen). It was too small for him since he was not able to hide away in the crowd. Then he moved to a 4.5 million city (Melbourne). Again just barely big enough. Maybe on the small side also. The 5 million city I met him in, he was going to move away from soon, to go back to Madrid which he did feel was large enough for him. And there he could easier hide away. Also being Spanish as he was.
Another friend of mine I used to do a lot of sports with when I was younger, such as snowboarding and skiing, has gone into extreme sports. Participated in weird ralleys with a funky car, or done paragliding at any opportunity he has off work as a programmer. He is single, and has no commitment to any children's.
The escapist idea of seeking distraction or relief from unpleasant realities is a global growing trend. One might coin the idea of a vacation, to essentially be escapism at its core. Even religions, with the belief in the illusion of free will, and the supernatural, is considered escapist at its core. In order for the poor to still have hope in an unpleasant reality.
An FKK is a form of escapist idea. But also it is a form of nutrition for the senses. The suicidal guy might find some sort of passionate relief. The gay guy might realize the difference between a cock and a pussy. And the adventurous guy may experience more senses than just the adrenal kicks of living on the edge of life and death.
As a response to McAdonis: Every seller has to sometimes battle with the ideas you project there. The ethical side of juggling empathy with the buyer as well as your own need to make an income. But this is like Takedown rightly points out, also a key reason to why the experienced seller is so good at empathy. But as soon as he gives in too much, and stops making excuses for why he takes the buyers money, he or she wants to quit. The grey lies have gone too far. A psychopath? Maybe. Sales psychology mentions this a lot, and this is why good sales companies usually have a psychologist to help them deal with this problem. I personally think it is just a problem with capitalism, and people should not have to do upselling. Both due to the buyer, and due to the sellers own well beings. Only incoming sales. Because this is usually just an issue with upsells. The only problem is just that it can be hard to make structures to streamline bundle sales across all fields of business. In an FKK however it shouldn't be too hard. But the legislators seems to do their best to try and make it hard. One sharks girl once came to me and felt a bit down once. She asked me for a room. I was just barely in the mood, but she had just heard me being a little annoyed at upselling. So she promised me she shouldn't try to upsell. During the entire room it felt like she had empathic problems with her conscious, and felt sad. And she mumbled at least twice that she wouldn't upsell. And that 50 was enough. It didn't sound like felt 50 was too little, but it was almost like if she felt a psychological relief of not having to do the upselling. The way I read her, she hated it as much, if not more than I did. (this is why I have proposed a slightly higher standard rate instead of upsells. But 100 is silly high considering entry fees etcon top).
Chongmal: You are right when it comes to stimulus and exchange rates. And the idea of it. But I don't think this has been up to Obama nor Trump. They are just randomly the president at certain times of history and works as useful puppets to the puppeteers above (fed etc).
The God gene hypothesis proposes that human spirituality is influenced by heredity and that a specific gene, called vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2), predisposes humans towards spiritual or mystic experiences. The idea has been proposed by geneticist Dean Hamer in the 2004 book called The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes.
This transporter protein transports dopamine, serotoine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, and histamine into the vesicles, which release the neurotransmitters into synapses as chemical messages to postsynaptic neurons. In other words, the seeking out of these chemicals through drugs, extreme sports or escapist ways can increase ones tendencies into becoming an extremist cultist.
https://youtu.be/spw5nmUrpWA
In 2017, a drug against this protein was cleared by the FDA. Basically verifying the idea altogether.
https://www.genengnews.com/topics/drug-discovery/fda-clears-neurocrines-vmat2-inhibitor-as-first-treatment-for-tardive-dyskinesia/
In all of this talk, I believe sybarite has a good idea: Relax, and have sex!
(However, sex should be easy to obtain. And for everyone in this world, it is not always so. Thus causing chaos.).
Even if staying away from extended mongering trips, mongering abstinence at home also helps keep one grounded in reality and social interactions. Living isolated lives in Norwegian fishing villages, Japanese Manboos, or car camping in Audi wagons while mongering cannot be good for psychiatric health..So it's a good thing that I change cars every 2-3 months. I'm on the second one since camping in my Audi. I actually had a really nice conversation with the tall blonde at the Sports store when I bought my new winter kit. She looked like she had real woman behavior and it made me want to drink from her fountain of youth.
For me, I had this opportunity for an extended tour, so I took it. There are a lot of jealoused men out there, but I've managed to stay happy in my own life and only rarely, let my frustrations with one of the jeslousest guys go.
Don't forget, even prostitutes with the best professional behavior are real women. We may not like to see how they act with others, but we have to remember they are acting, if they are any good at their job. One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.
As this is the lounge thread, and considering some FKK's have terrible smoke levels, one cannot be left without a worry regarding the health consequences this brings.
I have known three handicapped persons in my life.
The first one was a girl in my class at primary school. Her mother once was at the doctor just before my own mom had an appointment with the same doc. Right after this other mom came out of the doctors office and my mom went it, she (the doctor) was furious. She had been telling this other mom to stop smoking for months, and soon she would give birth. The baby girl had bad eye sight and had problems walking. She got teased a little at school. Especially for her glasses before every other kid in class got to see how little she actually could see. After that, the teasing stopped. At 20 years old, rumors had it she took suicide by overdose.
The second one had cancer and had lost all the hairs on his head when I went to school with him one year in high school. His parents both smoked like chimneys. He took his own life at age 23 after hanging himself.
The third one was a neighbour. Her mother was smoking heavily, and several other neighbours went over only to tell her to stop smoking several times. She didn't listen. The girl is now blind and has back problems. She is now 20 years old.
I can only assume this was mainly nicotine in all three cases. But at this moment cannabis is being legalized more and more places across the world. Because of liberalization. Well I would argue it isn't very liberalizing to our potential kids. Especially when there is this idea or group pressure. Just like with alcohol, there is the same pressure with smoking. Another idea is that you add charisma if you have something to occupy your fingers and hands with. Such as doing some magical tricks, or rolling a cigarette. On top of this, passive smoking can be equally dangerous in high enough dosages, and girls in FKK's sometimes keeps working even if they are 2 or 3 months pregnant. In an environment sometimes filled with smoke. If a girl manages to quit smoking while working in an FKK, I would salute her. Who cares if her ass grows slightly for a few months if she needs to eat a bit more during the transition? If somebody wants to have a baby, it matters fuck all. It is sad if girls needs to smoke in order to stay slim in these FKK's, while others have anorexia. Where are all the gym's to counterbalance this?
In my opinion, screw the retarded new legislation. Add a new requirement to the FKKs instead: supply the girls with gym membership, or build one on campus.
Had a long talk with anotherbBear about chemistry. My opinion is that it can exist, but is not an absolute full on or full off. Familiarity and respect can lead to a connection of varying levels. I'm not saying it's love, but it's something and can range from a little bit to more. I'm interested to hear the other thoughts on this.
Yeah I've car camped a bit these past couple of years. It's nice getting a new rental every so often to stretch out. But have you seen the Audi that someone lives in? It's often parked near LR or GT packed full of junk. I picture a homeless man sleeping in the front seat guarding all if his belongings and goes into the clubs to get a hot meal and a warm shower. With the prevalence of mental health issues in the homeless population, FKKs might be a good psychiatric service.
On that note, car camping can be done right or wrong. One guy I know is 6 ft tall but rents these little Volkswagen polos and sleeps in it. He looks ridiculous! Imagine a guy who looks like Frankenstein's monster jammed up in a toy car! I feel a little bad, he gets poor sleep and ends up sleeping in the clubs all day. When he wakes up at 7 pm, he looks even more ridiculous!
So it's a good thing that I change cars every 2-3 months. I'm on the second one since camping in my Audi. I actually had a really nice conversation with the tall blonde at the Sports store when I bought my new winter kit. She looked like she had real woman behavior and it made me want to drink from her fountain of youth.
For me, I had this opportunity for an extended tour, so I took it. There are a lot of jealoused men out there, but I've managed to stay happy in my own life and only rarely, let my frustrations with one of the jeslousest guys go.
Polyamorist
02-20-19, 17:23
Had a long talk with anotherbBear about chemistry. My opinion is that it can exist, but is not an absolute full on or full off. Familiarity and respect can lead to a connection of varying levels. I'm not saying it's love, but it's something and can range from a little bit to more. I'm interested to hear the other thoughts on this.Wallah, Chongmal, one thing I notice when people talk about chemistry is that it is never about whether the guy likes the girl but always whether the girl likes the guy.
When the guy likes the girl, there is nothing mysterious about it, no need to talk about chemistry. It's because she has a young body, pretty face, etc. But as for her desires, well, she needs to wrap them in mystery and keep the guy guessing. It's got to be magic. Invisible pheromones floating through the air. Chemistry.
BigBuddy69
02-20-19, 17:38
One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.Wow, this is what I call real woman philosophy.
WGs who are able to inflict extreme financial and emotional pain onto their victim, but still able to fall asleep at night, fall into one or more of these categories: (1) sociopath who does not feel true empathy and actually derives joy from hurting others (2) feels true empathy but uses "neutralization techniques" to clear her conscience or (3) feels true empathy but lacks "conventional" morality. These points more or less come from authorities in the field of criminology, which I quote below for background reading.It's worth pointing out that McAdonis usually links to sources that he has actually read. It's refreshing in a sea of half read articles and references to books and theories where one has simply read the synopsis. One of my professors in grad school used to always remind me that only fools and crooks attempt to pass familiarity for mastery.
Wallah, Chongmal, one thing I notice when people talk about chemistry is that it is never about whether the guy likes the girl but always whether the girl likes the guy.
When the guy likes the girl, there is nothing mysterious about it, no need to talk about chemistry. It's because she has a young body, pretty face, etc. But as for her desires, well, she needs to wrap them in mystery and keep the guy guessing. It's got to be magic. Invisible pheromones floating through the air. Chemistry.I always thought it was about when the guy likes (a feeble word for the sparks in the air and the racing heartbeat I am thinking of) the girl. I currently am finding a severe lack of it. As for the girl liking the guy, I always assume it is euros (even when the girl does like the guy), so, a girl just asked me to spend a day with her for free, I just turned it down as I assumed it was just bait, and thankfully, I felt no chemistry towards her.
Wallah, Chongmal, one thing I notice when people talk about chemistry is that it is never about whether the guy likes the girl but always whether the girl likes the guy.Your post reminds me when I was out there in the "legit" dating scene many moons ago. I went on a blind date with a woman who was known to not like anybody. She just never liked anybody who she was set up with. Not ever. So, we meet, and lo and behold she liked me! Wanted to keep seeing me, and all of her friends were shocked! My God, she actually liked a guy she met! This is great! Well, they were forgetting about one thing. They were forgetting about one somebody. Me! What about me and what I thought about her? Well, she was nice enough and all, but I had absolutely no physical attraction to her whatsoever. None. And the funny thing about it is that I think she thought she was kind of "Miss it". Well, not to me. I can't see somebody who I have no physical attraction to, and so that was that. And just like you wrote, all the focus was on whether not she liked me, and none on whether I liked her. So, the one time she liked the guy, turns out the guy didn't like her. Hey, I got feelings too LOL!
Nick The G
02-20-19, 18:16
Don't forget, even prostitutes with the best professional behavior are real women. We may not like to see how they act with others, but we have to remember they are acting, if they are any good at their job.So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.
They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.
One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.
Polyamorist
02-20-19, 18:19
One of my favorites has a saying, "In my life there are two boxes, one for this work and one for outside this work. I'm the only thing in my life allowed to cross from on box to the other. " I like the honest approach she has. She will stay for pancake sessions but always tells men there is no chance to get into her Real Life Box if they have been in her Work Box.Sounds a lot like being friendzoned (except in reverse I guess). Good luck with that. Maybe you need to think outside the Box.
It's amazing how much Romanian girls have learnt from American Women without ever meeting them. They simply read what AWs have carved out in American guys' brains, and take their cue from that.
Nick The G
02-20-19, 18:28
Once "chemistry" starts, and is allowed to continue, those who are involved in the process will be changed, forever.
For those who like to read, here is a great book by Nathan Schwartz-Salant:
https://www.amazon.de/Mystery-Human-Relationship-Alchemy-Transformation/dp/0415153891
So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.
They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.
I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals of neoliberalism.I agree fully. But I am not so sure it is the girl who is to blame. But rather the society at large, forcing this area of life into the underground.
First part of your comment made me laugh a bit. You are totally right there! Silly terms indeed.
Like testing the theory of cold outside on a winter day. Is it cold because the weather forecast said it would be, or is it really cold outside? Because even if you didn't see the forecast, you might have been affected by the presence of someone who might just have seen it. So in order to test the thesis, you basically need to bring out someone from a mental institution. Preferably an old person. Somebody not able to get affect by others, and who has his own little box around him. And then see if he falls on what is presumably real ice. Otherwise, it might not be ice at all.
Fake ice!
I need some independent escorts sites from Dusseldorf or Koln. Is there any site for all Germany or are more? I never was to apartments just in FKK and I want to know more about this. Can anybody help me?
So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals. They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.Perhaps it's because I feel like "reality bites" (too rarely is it happily ever after), and so I would rather deal with women through "escapist fantasy" versus acknowledging, accepting, and coping with how it all really and truly is in "real" life. It's just easier and more satisfying to me. Anybody else care to opine?
Sounds a lot like being friendzoned (except in reverse I guess). Good luck with that. Maybe you need to think outside the Box.
It's amazing how much Romanian girls have learnt from American Women without ever meeting them. They simply read what AWs have carved out in American guys' brains, and take their cue from that.Two points, I never thought I would be friends or anything more with her so no pity is necessary. The assumption that she is Romanian is incorrect. She is a really nice lady.
So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.
They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.
I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.I think she is rather level headed. She has a customer who keeps telling her that he will change her mind, she keeps telling him it is not possible because she will not let it be. I admire her honesty.
I would be interested in your professional viewpoints as a psychologist on this fragmented psyche theory.
So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.
They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.
Why FKKs specifically?
Reliable and cost effective access to a diverse variety of female bodies in their prime without the the risk of possibly fruitlessly spending time and financial resources attempting to bed females in the real world with the added benefits of a social sandbox, food, drinks, and wellness amenities.
I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.I've heard a couple WGs tell me about their desire to separate these boxes. Can you blame them? It serves to protect both their sense of self and their source of income. Some practice this, some don't, and some say they do only to develop in-the-job relationships anyway. But you're right, it must be hard on them to keep their identities separate.
Neurosynth
02-20-19, 21:00
Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort.And when did you decide to be straight?
Geeze.
And when did you decide to be straight?
Geeze.Sorry, I should have told you sooner. Well, what can I say? Though luck?
Right. You are explaining the reasoning behind the ability to separate empathy and actions exemplary of traditional morality. So these WGs are capable of truly relating to and empathizing with the monger. Some of them just have moral codes that allow them to exploit a man's lust or loneliness.Psychologists believe there are two types of empathy: cognitive and affective.
"There are two kinds of empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to know what other people are feeling, and emotional empathy is the kind where you feel what they're feeling," explains James Fallon, a neuroscientist at the University of California and the author of The Psychopath Inside: A Neuroscientist's Personal Journey Into the Dark Side of the Brain.
Psychopaths are specialists in cognitive empathy. "This all gives certain psychopaths a great advantage, because they can understand what you're thinking, it's just that they don't care, so they can use you against yourself," Fallon says.
https://www.eqapplied.com/bariso/5-ways-psychopaths-use-emotional-intelligence-according-to-science
So a WG can have cognitive empathy. They are good at reading the lovesick monger's emotions but they may not really care about his emotions. This high emotional intelligence that they possess can be used to manipulate or what Wikipedia refers to as "tactical or strategic empathy", which is the deliberate use of perspective-taking to achieve certain desired ends.
Human beings are able to display empathy on a situational basis:
Perhaps one of the most insidious forms of anti-social personality disorder is what may be termed situational sociopathy or psychopathy, where an individual extends cordiality, respect, and regard towards some, but exhibits inhumanity, harshness, and cruelty towards others. Targets of situational sociopathy or psychopathy are usually individuals or groups considered to be other, lesser, or weaker, and may be based on factors such as gender, class, race, sexual orientation, social standing, societal afflictions, etc. This sociopathic splitting views some people as fully human, and others as objects, commodities, and less human. Situational sociopathy or psychopathy contributes to many unjust conditions, such as misogyny, class bigotry, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, extreme poverty, and structural violence in society.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201810/7-characterisitics-the-modern-psychopath
To be reminded of this, we can look back to the slavery era. Were all white plantation owners in the Americas and Caribbean sociopaths? I suspect they were able to feel true empathy for their own family members and other members of the white race, but not their black slaves, who were beaten, brutalized, and exploited. If a black mother was separated from her children, surely they were able to recognize and see the pain in her face (cognitive empathy), but they did not share her personal distress. They did not consider her human. So with people in her personal life, a WG may have both cognitive and affective empathy, but with her clients, she may only have cognitive empathy.
Perhaps it's because I feel like "reality bites" (too rarely is it happily ever after), and so I would rather deal with women through "escapist fantasy" versus acknowledging, accepting, and coping with how it all really and truly is in "real" life. It's just easier and more satisfying to me. Anybody else care to opine?I only like girls when they are beautiful, so traditional way of mating called marriage or relationship cannot work in long term, it only work in short term, so mongering naturally works better to serve my interest and preference avoiding not necessary costs, time, nerve and problems. The whole thing changed for me when prostitution industry began supplying top level looking girls with such a easy access here, Germany, Switzerland etc.
Rationally speaking, it is not normal to fuck old or middle age ugly women just because you tend to like or love her as a person, I mean I can like some women very much as a person, I just do not have to kiss, fuck or live with her. They are just friends I tend to like or respect very much and no sex is needed between friends.
I fuck many young beautiful girls doing all sort of things and I do socializing with friends. For me, it make sense the most and it is happy ever after.
As a response to McAdonis: Every seller has to sometimes battle with the ideas you project there. The ethical side of juggling empathy with the buyer as well as your own need to make an income. But this is like Takedown rightly points out, also a key reason to why the experienced seller is so good at empathy. But as soon as he gives in too much, and stops making excuses for why he takes the buyers money, he or she wants to quit. The grey lies have gone too far. A psychopath? Maybe. Sales psychology mentions this a lot, and this is why good sales companies usually have a psychologist to help them deal with this problem.Opposite ends of the spectrum!
Many salesmen want to make profits, and often with the goal of building a sustainable relationship with their clients. For instance, some money managers may push certain products to get higher commissions. In doing so, they are looking out for their own interests, but they also have the goal of ensuring their clients get decent investment returns. Their goal is to not drain their client financially, potentially down to their last cent or sell bogus, fraudulent products and services, so these men are not psychopaths.
Then you have salesman like Bernie Madoff that abuse trust and commit fraud. He was running Ponzi schemes and taking people's life savings. This requires callousness and we can consider people like him a true psychopath. In brothels, you do not have to look hard to find lonely, vulnerable men. WGs may realize that their client is spending beyond his means because he is lovesick. End result is potentially no different than the demise of some of Madoff's clients. Financial pain. Emotional pain. And sometimes even suicide.
Psychologists believe there are two types of empathy: cognitive and affective.
So a WG can have cognitive empathy. They are good at reading the lovesick monger's emotions but they may not really care about his emotions. This high emotional intelligence that they possess can be used to manipulate or what Wikipedia refers to as "tactical or strategic empathy", which is the deliberate use of perspective-taking to achieve certain desired ends.
U
Human beings are able to display empathy on a situational basis:
To be reminded of this, we can look back to the slavery era. Were all white plantation owners in the Americas and Caribbean sociopaths? I suspect they were able to feel true empathy for their own family members and other members of the white race, but not their black slaves, who were beaten, brutalized, and exploited. If a black mother was separated from her children, surely they were able to recognize and see the pain in her face (cognitive empathy), but they did not share her personal distress. They did not consider her human. So with people in her personal life, a WG may have both cognitive and affective empathy, but with her clients, she may only have cognitive empathy.Fair distinction. We can differentiate the types of empathy by categorizing them or is it more accurate to place them on a threshold gradient? I have empathy for my dog when he is bored at home wanting to go for a walk. I truly feel bad that he is not outside running and playing. Much like my desire to stretch my social legs when I want human interaction, I empathize with his boredom. Now does that empathy cross an intolerable threshold where I can overcome my personal desires to be lazy at home? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Did I feel empathy and even feel that I was a bad master every time I ignored his whines to go for a walk? Yes, but often it did not cross the threshold required for me to do something about it.
An even darker scenario is the mother of a crying baby. Sometimes the mom is so tired that she cannot garner the energy to console a crying child. My friend would even purposely go to the patio to escape the kid's cries. Did she have empathy and actually felt pain for her child? I know for a fact she did. But in that tired state, that empathy could not overcome her need for respite care of her own sanity.
This threshold theory is supported by the scenario you painted before where a WG finally cuts ties with a monger once her reasoning no longer "assuages her guilt."
Pahllus Maximus
02-21-19, 03:21
Pistons. As at 2019 just about everyone has a productivity glut and play exchange rate games to sell more crap. Now we have a trade war and another war of 5 G standards and who controls the internet toll gate. Meanwhile, all the benefits have trickled up, and rich people do not spend much of their income (unlike most people who spend nearly all of it). This is like a giant blood clot and not enough income flowing around, and thus less money by normal people to buy crap. The Trump Godzilla tax break is going into stock buybacks and making CEO's rich. However you look at it, money flows up and gets clotted. They do not hire people or invest in are&the. The pie may be bigger, but shared between fewer. This is the basic problem for weak demand = lack of widely distributed decent income.
Oh, and massive asset inflation as a disguised bail out. The pension funds and insurers need at least 7% to pay long term liabilities. That is also a Ponzi scheme. Insurers are quite sick after a decade of silly low rates and chasing high risk stuff to make up lost ground. So, there is a hell of a lot of money sloshing about in speculation and assets, and cracks are everywhere. The central banks keep papering over it. There are even explicitly NEGATIVE interest rates in parts of Europe, and yet they are still pushing on string. We should have reset the balance sheets in 2009 and figured how to get spendable income to ordinary people. But, greed won, and here we are. Something will trigger it. The Italian and Spanish banks have psychiatric accounting just as Cyprus banks collapsed (and some pissed of Russians). Maybe that. Or steadily more bonds failing. As for China, well we have Alice in Wonderland accounts, but it too has serious problems and surplus production, shrinking income for ordinary people, and ageing population. The miracle is much less so behind the managed stage and massaged figures. The Euro and the EU is a mess of radically different fiscal responsibility entities and economies that is a house of cards.
The USD is the least worst currency. Japan, I think, is good long term as its population drops to a level aligned with the need for a lot less people. Jeremy Rivkin wrote in 1995 "In virtually every major manufacturing activity, human labour is being steadily replaced by machines. Today, millions of working men and women around the world find themselves trapped between economic eras and increasingly marginalised by the introduction of new laboursaving technology. By the mid-decades of the coming century, the blue collar worker will have passed from history, a casualty of the relentless March toward ever greater technological efficiency. " Update that after 25 years to include travel agents, lawyers, accountants vast tracts of retail people, and so on, including radiologists. Gene therapy will put many surgeons out of work, pharmacists and maybe even big pharma as tailored medicine becomes in vogue. The good new is that we can create treatment for anti-biotic resistant microbes and maybe even lovely skin. AI, when it happens, will create a shattering paradigm shift. It might be the best store of value is stock in Google and Amazon or Baidu.
More scary still is that we may be the last natural humans. Genetic manipulation on humans is well and truly happening behind the scenes because it is irresistible. The genie is out of the bottle, and very wealthy may indeed be able to create an objective super race just as we knocked off the Neanderthals. The even more scary question becomes "what do we want to become" ?
Despite this, ripe, youthful pussy in its prime is ours right here, right now. New stuff on the market all the time. Girls born in 2000 to 2002 are coming on line for our lustful desires. Who said millennial were useless?
With FKK priced in Euros (that I think has more downside risk than upside) - yahoo, here I come).
Steve 9696
02-21-19, 03:22
Perhaps it's because I feel like "reality bites" (too rarely is it happily ever after), and so I would rather deal with women through "escapist fantasy" versus acknowledging, accepting, and coping with how it all really and truly is in "real" life. It's just easier and more satisfying to me. Anybody else care to opine?Despite some men being pigs as the saying goes, I think many men are after more than sex. We want to recapture those butterflies of when you are first head over heels for some girl. And so things like DFK which is the entry into that world are at a premium. I know I would pay cash dollars to just slow dance and DFK a girl who is really into kissing. Girls like Thifany (Fazendinha) or Rika (exTHC) or Honey (THC) or Bella (Indy) or Kate (Globe). It feels like a real connection that is indescribable. Yes, if choosing sex or that, I would choose the DFK slow dance — sap that I am. (Fortunately I never had to choose!
When I totally lucked out and had Thifany as my girlfriend for a week, it was total emotional connection and butterflies. Having a 23 year old on your arm and on the dance floor is intoxicating. Leaving her was heartbreaking but totally worth the ride. As a realist I know real life would never be like that week. I know she will get lazy or needy or both and sure enough we have drifted apart. This is really for the best as it can never be the same.
So we keep it all temporary and try to string together a set of butterflies. I surely hope I can find another. In the meantime quality in-room time will have to do.
P.S. If you want more on the whole Thifany story it is too long to post — just I'm me.
Pahllus Maximus
02-21-19, 03:26
Such a thing exists. The Big Mac Index. Exists that gives a common price for various countries said to reflect economic efficiency. Maybe the mongers here should create a standardized WG profile (say 7-9/10 looks, DFK, BBJCIM) and post data to enable a market place. Maybe even create a swaps market like the price of Brent crude oil. Just saying.
Opposite ends of the spectrum!
Many salesmen want to make profits, and often with the goal of building a sustainable relationship with their clients. For instance, some money managers may push certain products to get higher commissions. In doing so, they are looking out for their own interests, but they also have the goal of ensuring their clients get decent investment returns. Their goal is to not drain their client financially, potentially down to their last cent or sell bogus, fraudulent products and services, so these men are not psychopaths.
Then you have salesman like Bernie Madoff that abuse trust and commit fraud. He was running Ponzi schemes and taking people's life savings. This requires callousness and we can consider people like him a true psychopath. In brothels, you do not have to look hard to find lonely, vulnerable men. WGs may realize that their client is spending beyond his means because he is lovesick. End result is potentially no different than the demise of some of Madoff's clients. Financial pain. Emotional pain. And sometimes even suicide.True, but in most situations, as a seller you consider most of the things you sell to be ridiculously overpriced. Insurances for example. Then again, arguing for its benefits is pretty straight forward.
I need some independent escorts sites from Dusseldorf or Koln. Is there any site for all Germany or are more? I never was to apartments just in FKK and I want to know more about this. Can anybody help me?Kaufmich for escorts. I remember some girls who worked both at GT and on Kaufmich.
On beginning of December 2017, I was informed, after I was paid a room at GT, so I discovered a escort in a club, repeated on next week end at YY, then in hotel, then in apartment, but still for club rate, usually 300 for 3 sex hours, but staying about 5 hours, many times she cancelled appointments after, my best ever sexual potential, fitness stamina.
Yeah, its a good summary Phallus. But there are agents behind the numbers who are smarter than most people think. Conspiracy theory of course, but if you and me can figure this out, there surely must be smarter people who also can see it won't last forever. A superior economic model for example would be a purely block chain based model where money is taxed instead of labor. With basic income payouts. But then there would be far less hierarchy in the world, and far less options to stray socio cultural agenda's around the world. Because at the end of the day, economics is nothing more than a social science. The math is fictitious, and it doesn't add up the way it works now. And has never worked with interest and inflation. With a perfect system based on digital blockchains, national cults would live on, Nazism / racism would continue and wars could potentially break out. As technology improves, that is a risk we cannot take. So borders needs to go. And as we have no idea where it leads us, playing with fire before the house is shielded is a bad idea. The problem is just that it seems like population is going to plummet before anything is done, and it will all continue to be as interventionist as it has been for years to come. And meanwhile the population is plummeting to 'controllable levels', there can be a lot of chaos, and leaders are never without fault. Especially when entering new territory. Machiavellianism lives on for now. , and the main reason is continued population growth. Currently mainly in sub Saharan Africa, while the rest of the world seems to be on track.
Polyamorist
02-21-19, 04:36
Salaam Old Nick and barak-Alabama!
I feel so sorry for this two-box woman.
I would bang her in both boxes and see if that helps.
The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.Would you care to expand on that or provide a link?
CaneUppHosAss
02-21-19, 05:14
What do we want to become?
Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.
Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?
What do we want to become?
Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.
Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?Only if one has a small one. I would rather increase the number of sensors on the willy. Stretch the head further back, and get a stronger frenulum. I would only increase the length if something is also done to the female's organs.
Lets hope we get there sooner than later. But I think we might see a drastic reduction of the total world population in total numbers before then. And that might take so long before we get there that perhaps none of us here will get the benefits. Maybe an AI singularity event is our only hope of seeing it for ourselves.
So often here, people talk about finding a real woman or real feelings, of course in brothels. It is a bit like going to a zoo to see real wild animals.
They never talk about why mongers (real men?) find themselves constantly in brothels again.
I feel so sorry for this two-box woman. The fragmentation of the human psyche to create boxed parts is one of the main goals actively pursued by neoliberalism.Nice thoughts. These issues are too complex to be effectively discussed in a forum, but you have a decent attempt at a succinct summary here.
The point of the "box" analogy is neat, and can be applied to all capitalist and state socialist societies not just neo-liberalism (which does however make a fetish of it unlike the social democratic model which is more nuanced). In essence the "box" is the heart of the Karl Marx sociology of alienation.
As for why men go to brothels you are right, a little bit of introspection does not go amiss. It is not just about the fucking, but about illusions, remedies for problems, societal pressures, and emotional and mental needs.
I am not sure I agree if you are implying that we do not find real women and relationships in brothels. They may be within different parameters to one's outside brothels, but each woman we meet there is a real person and there is human interaction. Provided of course there is some leakage between the boxes :)
Nick The G
02-21-19, 11:39
What do we want to become?
Sooner or later, a super rich billionaire (someone less philanthropic and more narrow minded than Bill Gates) would perhaps use crispr and gene sequencing to create an extra long and large endowment for himself, something that will work for several dozens of decades w / o additional chemical molecules, and purchase a couple of FKKs in each major city for himself and indulge in every sexual whim of his, not once or twice, but for decades on. Of course as the member of the super rich race, he will have access to the extremely expensive new biotech products to elongate his life span, in addition to enlarging his organs.
Isn't that the fantasy of every monger here?What about the "hero with a thousand penises"?
https://www.amazon.de/Thousand-Faces-Collected-Joseph-Campbell/dp/1577315936
Yes, I want at least two extra long penises. So I can have much more fun within given time. Or just to imagine: I can relax at the bar while fucking girls somewhere in the club. LOL!
Nick The G
02-21-19, 11:56
I am not sure I agree if you are implying that we do not find real women and relationships in brothels. They may be within different parameters to one's outside brothels, but each woman we meet there is a real person and there is human interaction. Provided of course there is some leakage between the boxes :)The more true we are to ourselves, and the less fragmented our self-organization is, the more true encounters or relationships we will find. Independent of environment.
If we are tied to permanent greed for money or addicted to consumption of sex, we are in the box.
A brothel is a "box" by itself. It attracts only certain kind of people. Sort of a laboratory for a karmic development path. Maybe for those who want / need to sacrifice their "holy" illusions in a longterm process.
The more true we are to ourselves, and the less fragmented our self-organization is, the more true encounters or relationships we will find. Independent of environment.
If we are tied to permanent greed for money or addicted to consumption of sex, we are in the box.
A brothel is a "box" by itself. It attracts only certain kind of people. Sort of a laboratory for a karmic development path. Maybe for those who want / need to sacrifice their "holy" illusions in a longterm process.Well put. You are on form today!
The point of the "box" analogy is neat, and can be applied to all capitalist and state socialist societies not just neo-liberalism (which does however make a fetish of it unlike the social democratic model which is more nuanced). In essence the "box" is the heart of the Karl Marx sociology of alienation.I'm sure this is exactly what the 22 yo prostitute was thinking.
Or perhaps she was thinking like Mr Ho. Why would she want to have a relationship with a man who went to prostitutes and paid them for sex. Her honest approach that she will not allow men from her professional job to cross into her personal life may seem harsh or mechanical. Of course, I've never had the problem where every prostitute I slept with automatically forgot all other men, past and future, because I'm so amazing.
It gets comical when the posters here feel they have to analyze every post by anyone except their two friends and prove their own superiority. Please, in responding, use something other than Machiavellian or Orwellian comparisons. How some people write here seems as though they are employing these beliefs to pump their egos up on a sex forum. Let's find some new idols that have sexual relevance: Freud, Shakespeare, Chaucer. Anybody but please stop with the continual recycling. Anyone who cared to know about Machiavellianism or Orwellian theories has already looked them up. Those who don't care to know are probably the same ones that skip your writings along with skipping the writings by the men who have sexual super powers they use to seduce a prostitute and bang her so hard she has to take the night off afterwards.
I challenge you to think outside the "Box" and to come up with something new. My new campaign motto is Make Sauna Clubs Great Again.
My last challenge is for someone who has been to a FKK to write about your experiences. Hiking on nature trails, participating in sports activities, sitting around the picnic tables eating lunch while everyone is nude. This is what FKK is about. Not visiting a sex club.
Pahllus Maximus
02-21-19, 17:50
One of the recent trends in American and other western societies is the idea that men and women lay 100% of their emotional deck of cards at the feet of the partner. Especially men. In the past, and in many cultures such as the older Greeks, Asian and judaism, the men for strong strong social bonds independent of their relationships. This ancient system builds very real redundancy. Taking the box analogy, it creates many good quality boxes that may not include a pretty young thing (neither pretty or young for very long) , but is real and life sustaining. As Nick the G says, the other boxes are bought, illusionary and transient, and the owners work hard to make it leak proof. Throwing seed in those boxes (at least the psychological type) is mostly wasted on barren ground. Some would say WG's are close to a warm play toy for masturbation, though I disagree. But it is definitely not the real thing given for free and from the heart. Men can disassociate sex from emotions far better than women. Some men confuse the two. The girl with her personal box analogy was spot on and remarkably wise. A way better path for men is to build wide and deep relationships with people where the wildcard of sex is out of the equation. Not glitzy clubs anyone with a fistful of euros is an instant friend and instantly ejected once the cash is gone.
I often wonder what it would be like to be in a WG's skin. How would I feel if some wrinkly old hag jammed her tongue down my throat or going down on her grey pubes and wrinkly saddle bag thighs? Would I feel affectionate to her? How would I feel with a bunch of leering cougars twice my age ogling me like a piece of prime beef cut into imaginary in sections? What if I had to parade in speedos or a g-string as well ? And then smile and act fascinated for hours on end with some old woman who works in a corporate bunker and tells me about her messed up life as her personal confessor ? And in a second language ? Yes, women do have a peacock gene to show off and be pretty, but they also like to control that to people they are attracted to. Looking around a FKK at the majority of mongers is far from a male beauty contest. The contrast between the girls and the men in attractiveness is pretty stark for the most part.
Comparmentalization. Disassociation- of identity comes with significant costs of self-esteem and anxiety and is not free, save for psychopaths where it is just one of several masks in a box that is an endless vaccum. Know yourself, train the brain to spot and kill dangerous cravings and discontent over what the past should have been or what might happen (the Bhuddist way) and everything becomes calm. It's mostly madness to think a girl selling herself for cash to men and having to act that she hangs on every often drunken word and loves that flabby body is going to feel a bloom of romance. We have fun, but the girls are WORKING. If they won the lottery or inheritance they would be instantly gone in a puff of smoke. I often wonder what it would be like to be in their skin. How would I feel if some wrinkly old hag jammed her tongue down my throat or going down on her grey pubes and wrinkly saddle bag thighs? Would I feel affectionate to her? Would her handbag reluctantly opened and cash dispensed transform any of the above?
We are meeting for a bit of fun for ourselves, FKK's and brothels are a consensual movie set between willing actors, we are the producers and directors of sorts and the girls are working. They may derive some satisfaction over their effect on us as a sort of feminine power versus our wanting our script to play out, but in the end it comes down to what psychological health we have off the movie set and in our heads, a sand castle on a beach or a brick house on the hill. We sure are not going to find that in shopping malls, the internet or FKK's.
Now, back to scoring the hottest young actresses for some harmless and consensual fun !
I agree fully. But I am not so sure it is the girl who is to blame. But rather the society at large, forcing this area of life into the underground.
First part of your comment made me laugh a bit. You are totally right there! Silly terms indeed.
Like testing the theory of cold outside on a winter day. Is it cold because the weather forecast said it would be, or is it really cold outside? Because even if you didn't see the forecast, you might have been affected by the presence of someone who might just have seen it. So in order to test the thesis, you basically need to bring out someone from a mental institution. Preferably an old person. Somebody not able to get affect by others, and who has his own little box around him. And then see if he falls on what is presumably real ice. Otherwise, it might not be ice at all.
Fake ice!For sure, WGs are right to protect their real private intimacy, and I m not really interested about. Even I often give advice, more often about woman care from my life with women, than about Globe, to my favorites, but when they ask why You don t come to visit Romania, to ski around Brasov, even know snow is better in Romania, but I m not interested out of clubs, not my image of girlfriend, but in clubs I m only interested when I can touch the woman part, I don t repeat just for sex, I need to feel the woman part to really enjoy. Just technique and sex, even with fire in bed, would be boring to repeat, but when You touch sensuality and woman, then we can improve together and much more enjoyable for me.
Girls say we are all different, for sure I m very different from Asians for girls, I know my eyes are very different about girls looks and behavior, behavior is the most important for me, even I need beauty, I left girls I drove weekly so many kilometers for and they came straight to me when they saw me, but new behavior made me run away, no more woman, just prostitute, not anymore interesting, don t worth anymore to pay for, when I paid 1500/2000 for one on some months. On the other hand, I drove from Luxemburg to LR just to explain with a girl, not even for sex, just because I didn't want she believe bullshits. She understood by herself even before I explained, nice chat with her, I like this kind of girl. Also look forward to meet again one who stopped to work for few hours at 1 pm when I told her I didn't want to repeat because she finished too exhausted our room on previous night, so I was afraid to hurt her. I will have to explain with her.
CaneUppHosAss
02-21-19, 18:59
What about the "hero with a thousand penises"?
https://www.amazon.de/Thousand-Faces-Collected-Joseph-Campbell/dp/1577315936
Yes, I want at least two extra long penises. So I can have much more fun within given time. Or just to imagine: I can relax at the bar while fucking girls somewhere in the club. LOL!Haha. Well sir, the other gentleman postulated what if and I provided one scenario. I think longer lasting big dicks may be a reasonable scenario within our time horizons. Not sure about 2 dicks though.
Not to mention, if a man has 2 dicks then he would always be forced to fuck 2 girls at the same or DP a girl. Normal, traditional vaginal sex with one girl might be a difficult thing when the second dick gets in the way! LOL.
I think an important thing we need to keep in mind here is that the girls stay in the clubs almost every day. Every week aside from when going on vacation. Almost without a single exclusion to the norm, when I meet a new girl in a club who just started the job, she is far far more into it than someone who has been in the environment for years or months. Her hormones are just not overused. After 5-10 visits again with the same girl, you start regaining some passion. But then it seems to be more about friendship and security, as opposed to pure heat like on the first 1 or 2 sessions. Maybe I am lucky, but girls new to clubs after just 1-3 days of working are always wet, and to me at least it is easy to make them cum. After awhile they get dry, and need heavy lubrication. I have told some chefs to use more tomatos and other types of food to boost the girls enjoyment, but unless they manage to get that, it is more and more like phallus says.
Neurosynth
02-21-19, 20:57
Another guy I knew once was gay. He lived in a big city with over 5 million people. Had been rejected by several girls early in his life, and eventually turned gay to find comfort.
And when did you decide to be straight?
Geeze.
Sorry, I should have told you sooner. Well, what can I say? Though luck?
Perhaps you don't understand my point (s).
(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.
(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.
(3) Perpetuating such a notion supports stupid guilt-based attempts to "cure" people who are gay via conversion "therapy. ".
It's a false and hurtful POV that contributes to unfair and needless suffering. That you peddle such nonsense with an assumed air of expertise makes it all the worse.
Polyamorist
02-22-19, 00:21
(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.
(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.
Salaam PC Neuro. Surely it is more demeaning to people to tell them they have no choice in the matter. In fact humans have very flexible psyches and there are tons and tons of examples of straight folk who have gradually got more and more bendy over time: Chris Birch, Marlon Brandon, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, even Angelina Jolie.
I find Mr Pistons' anecdote very credible.
An even darker scenario is the mother of a crying baby. Sometimes the mom is so tired that she cannot garner the energy to console a crying child. My friend would even purposely go to the patio to escape the kid's cries. Did she have empathy and actually felt pain for her child? I know for a fact she did. But in that tired state, that empathy could not overcome her need for respite care of her own sanity.
This threshold theory is supported by the scenario you painted before where a WG finally cuts ties with a monger once her reasoning no longer "assuages her guilt."While there are thresholds involved as you suggest, I see some distinctions between the scenario I painted above, and the mother of crying baby scenario you describe.
One, I do not consider this mother's actions to be cruel, immoral, or criminal, whereas a WG taking a monger to the cleaners is. Whether it is time, money, or energy, there is a limit to how much one can give. Now if the mother were receiving baby food money from the government, but used that money instead to buy designer purses while watching her baby starve, that is a different story. However, the mother who occasionally does not pick up and comfort her crying baby knows that "in the balance" she is treating her baby well, meaning that tomorrow she will spend the entire day with her baby, once she is rested. In the balance she knows that she gives and helps significantly more than she neglects. Can we say the same for a WG--does she give more than she takes from a lovesick monger?
Two, the mother is not actively inflicting pain onto her baby. I characterize this mother's behavior as "momentary" neglect of responsibility, because eight times out of ten, I assume your friend picks up her crying baby. Looking away when someone is suffering is quite different than deliberately and actively causing suffering. In most cases, the latter requires either higher levels of sociopathy or a greater degree of self-deception. The former would be the German populace that failed to intervene (passive) during the Nazi era, the latter would be the SS soldiers who executed (active) Jews as they begged for their life. In both my hypothetical scenarios with the burglar and the scamming WG, the perpetrators had already inflicted significant financial and emotional pain onto their victims, but they simply showed mercy at the final stage of their cruel, immoral, and criminal act.
True, but in most situations, as a seller you consider most of the things you sell to be ridiculously overpriced. Insurances for example.Selling overpriced items or unneccessary warranties to boost profit is generally not considered cruel, immoral, or criminal. Reputable watch shops might do this for example. But as I said, most businesses are just looking for a "healthy" profit margin. They are not trying to defraud or take their customers to the cleaners because these businesses plan to stay in business long term, not like some counterfeit watch salesman who changes street corners and cities every other day.
Selling counterfeit, fake items that can result in long-term suffering for the client requires higher degrees of callousness. Examples would be the Chinese companies that sold baby formula with melamine in it. Or again the Madoff scandal.
"Take someone to the cleaners" is an American idiom which means to take all someone's money or possessions in a dishonest or unfair way (Google).
Perhaps you don't understand my point (s).
(1) The notion that someone can "turn gay" let alone *choose* to "turn gay" is not based on facts or science.
(2) Perpetuating such a notion supports sexual bigots who would like to make sexual preference a moral choice rather than something people simply are without any choice about it.
(3) Perpetuating such a notion supports stupid guilt-based attempts to "cure" people who are gay via conversion "therapy. ".
It's a false and hurtful POV that contributes to unfair and needless suffering. That you peddle such nonsense with an assumed air of expertise makes it all the worse.LOL, give me a break! Take your sjw ideas elsewhere. Because on me they don't stick. I follow logic and not media stories fed to the general public zombie listeners.
Sure there are some minor biological differences, some of which is even based on environmental factors. But several people have swayed from gay to straight and vice versa forever. In ancient Greece and rome, this was all normal. Some people even consider it to be 'bi'. Meaning both straight and gay. But you can assume your own definition whenever you pay the most focus on one side of the coin (LOL?) There is allways a combination of environment and genetics. And your comment assumes you know more about my comment than what I posted. And your assumptions throughout your comment puts you straight into the neoliberal box defining category Nick the g talks about.
Salaam PC Neuro. Surely it is more demeaning to people to tell them they have no choice in the matter. In fact humans have very flexible psyches and there are tons and tons of examples of straight folk who have gradually got more and more bendy over time: Chris Birch, Marlon Brandon, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, even Angelina Jolie.
I find Mr Pistons' anecdote very credible.Well said.
But I suppose I should add that my 'anecdote' both regarding the 3 different handicapped 'smoke victims', and the 3 other examples I made in the escapism post (the gay guy included) were not anecdotes at all. All six are in fact real flesh and blood stories.
Right, point was the separation of empathy and action. Also applies with your categorical empathy. Theshold or theroretical, I think we both agree that WGs can feel true empathy.
While there are thresholds involved as you suggest, I see some distinctions between the scenario I painted above, and the mother of crying baby scenario you describe.
One, I do not consider this mother's actions to be cruel, immoral, or criminal, whereas a WG taking a monger to the cleaners is. Whether it is time, money, or energy, there is a limit to how much one can give. Now if the mother were receiving baby food money from the government, but used that money instead to buy designer purses while watching her baby starve, that is a different story. However, the mother who occasionally does not pick up and comfort her crying baby knows that "in the balance" she is treating her baby well, meaning that tomorrow she will spend the entire day with her baby, once she is rested. In the balance she knows that she gives and helps significantly more than she neglects. Can we say the same for a WG--does she give more than she takes from a lovesick monger?.
Selling overpriced items or unneccessary warranties to boost profit is generally not considered cruel, immoral, or criminal. Reputable watch shops might do this for example. But as I said, most businesses are just looking for a "healthy" profit margin. They are not trying to defraud or take their customers to the cleaners because these businesses plan to stay in business long term, not like some counterfeit watch salesman who changes street corners and cities every other day.
Selling counterfeit, fake items that can result in long-term suffering for the client requires higher degrees of callousness. Examples would be the Chinese companies that sold baby formula with melamine in it. Or again the Madoff scandal.
"Take someone to the cleaners" is an American idiom which means to take all someone's money or possessions in a dishonest or unfair way (Google).Yes, I agree. Too bad really so many girls in FKK's doesn't read about this. They all think they will be out of the job within a year. But 5 years later they are still around due to the high income. But at some point it drops because they don't consider what you mention there. They just haven't been paying attention to the idea of keeping a high service moral, good attitude and integrity.
Well said.
But I suppose I should add that my 'anecdote' both regarding the 3 different handicapped 'smoke victims', and the 3 other examples I made in the escapism post (the gay guy included) were not anecdotes at all. All six are in fact real flesh and blood stories.What was the point of that exactly? Smoking's bad? That's kinda like saying don't get a tattoo of a hooker's name on your foot.
Pistons. Agreeing with you I will quote Akibono:
"This is the secret to the FKK concept. By keeping prices standard, you do not waste time negotiating and you keep out the scammers. Thus, people have a good time and spend more money. Everyone benefits except the butterflies that go from club to club and scam people. The girls many earn a little less per session, but the good ones have regular customers that help they earn a nice living".
Btw. Nice point about ancient Greeks and homosexuality. Sexuality must to some degree be a choice: no way were all the male citizens engaging in homosexual practices because they were all biologically different from modern males who in the majority do not engage in such practices. Nobody can put all humanity in an ideological straitjacket: each person is an individual who has biological determinants but also cultural choices
Pistons. Agreeing with you I will quote Akibono:
"This is the secret to the FKK concept. By keeping prices standard, you do not waste time negotiating and you keep out the scammers. Thus, people have a good time and spend more money. Everyone benefits except the butterflies that go from club to club and scam people. The girls many earn a little less per session, but the good ones have regular customers that help they earn a nice living".Yeah, the way to look at the FKK pricing is weather or not they price themselves above or below the willingness to pay line. But they suck at trying to find this line. Personally I believe that line lies at 70 e per 30 min. But that means 0 upselling.
If they price themselves below this line, then upselling will occur, and double pricing will prevail. Something 99% of us hate. Putting the girls on our hate list. If they price themselves above, then it will become a luxury thing only for the rich, and the mass market will be lost. Also people will go elsewhere instead of to FKK.
Neurosynth
02-22-19, 19:23
Salaam PC Neuro. Surely it is more demeaning to people to tell them they have no choice in the matter. In fact humans have very flexible psyches and there are tons and tons of examples of straight folk who have gradually got more and more bendy over time: Chris Birch, Marlon Brandon, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, even Angelina Jolie.
I find Mr Pistons' anecdote very credible.Is it demeaning to tell someone who is short that they couldn't have chosen to be tall? No. It is both true and not demeaning.
And just because someone's activity changes, does that mean they *willed* the change to happen? No. Attraction is not a choice, and changes in attraction are not a choice. One can choose whether to pursue the attraction or not, but the attraction is not a choice.
"Sexual orientation is a natural part of who you are it's not a choice. Your sexual orientation can change over your lifetime. ".
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sexual-orientation-gender/sexual-orientation/what-causes-sexual-orientation
Neurosynth
02-22-19, 19:48
LOL, give me a break! Take your sjw ideas elsewhere. Because on me they don't stick. I follow logic and not media stories fed to the general public zombie listeners.
Sure there are some minor biological differences, some of which is even based on environmental factors. But several people have swayed from gay to straight and vice versa forever. In ancient Greece and rome, this was all normal. Some people even consider it to be 'bi'. Meaning both straight and gay. But you can assume your own definition whenever you pay the most focus on one side of the coin (LOL?) There is allways a combination of environment and genetics. And your comment assumes you know more about my comment than what I posted. And your assumptions throughout your comment puts you straight into the neoliberal box defining category Nick the g talks about.Rejecting arguments based on political tribal affiliation rather than substance is a lazy lack of critical thinking.
I can find no end to experts who will attest to the fact that sexual orientation, even as it changes, is not a choice. It's not an act of will. The change in attraction happens first, and only then does one choose whether or not to pursue it.
I'll not judge your posts based on assumed abstract political affiliations. I will judge your posts negatively when they conflict with science.
From the American Psychological Association:
"Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?
No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. ".
Polyamorist
02-22-19, 21:18
Ya lahwy PC Neuro.
Kindly don't rob me of the fragile sense of virtue I get from following the straight and narrow and FuKKing only people who can produce a sample with two X chromosomes -- never giving in to the lure of the TV / TS types! My choice.
No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence.Fine, fine, it would be fun watching you tell that to Angelina Jolie. "Stop tribbing around and get back with Brad Pitt. It's not up to you cupcake: you were born straight! Here are a bunch of experts in what you feel. ".
CaneUppHosAss
02-22-19, 21:24
Are people saying that guys have a choice of becoming gay or heterosexual, as they want? Does that mean that under some circumstances, some of the mongers here can see themselves being gay and being attracted to other men? That's interesting. Personally speaking, I have zero interest in any other man and you would not see me, under any circumstance, approach any other man with a 100 meter barge pole. As my name says, this cane is going up only a girls's ass, haha.
That said, if other mongers can switch between hetero or gay as the situation changes, good for them. Choice is what makes this world a better place, but my choice is made.
Is it demeaning to tell someone who is short that they couldn't have chosen to be tall? No. It is both true and not demeaning.
And just because someone's activity changes, does that mean they *willed* the change to happen? No. Attraction is not a choice, and changes in attraction are not a choice. One can choose whether to pursue the attraction or not, but the attraction is not a choice.
"Sexual orientation is a natural part of who you are it's not a choice. Your sexual orientation can change over your lifetime. ".
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sexual-orientation-gender/sexual-orientation/what-causes-sexual-orientationJust the idea that you quote planned parenthood: the organization who bases everything they do on human depopulation should ring a bell.
That said, if other mongers can switch between hetero or gay as the situation changes, good for them. Choice is what makes this world a better place, but my choice is made.Yeah, but you know about FKK's. Gay Spanish guy doesn't.
And I keep bumping into the random guy at FKK's who ask me which girls does prostate massages. Something considered totally gay by most people. I suppose it is gay too, although I am unsure about the definition there.
It's not an act of will. The change in attraction happens first, and only then does one choose whether or not to pursue it.
I'll not judge your posts based on assumed abstract political affiliations. I will judge your posts negatively when they conflict with science.
From the American Psychological Association:
"Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?
No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. ".I agree with you that sexual orientation is not a choice. However, people often use science to promote the misleading concept that sexuality is directly genetic in nature. Just because it's not a choice does not mean that it is determined at birth. Rather, it's genetic disposition in combination with environmental activation. I have as much choice in finding men attractive as I find fat women to be attractive. I cannot just decide to like fat women. Evolution has predisposed me to be attracted to fit women and my environmental upbringing either reinforces or curtails that genetic predisposition. The same can be said with sexual orientation. One does not consciously choose it but it's misleading when some outlets imply that it is determined at birth.
Pahllus Maximus
02-23-19, 03:53
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html
Happens hundreds of times a day around the country as the embargo on pay as you go pussy. Fed up with sex prison. And many FDA blocks on good treatments available in Europe for what is really trade protection (as is protecting women only selling pussy on long term captive contracts in USA).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html
Happens hundreds of times a day around the country as the embargo on pay as you go pussy. Fed up with sex prison. And many FDA blocks on good treatments available in Europe for what is really trade protection (as is protecting women only selling pussy on long term captive contracts in USA).Even billionaires need tutes every now and then. Should went undercover to Brazil, Germany, or Thailand where nobody knows your face or name.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.html
Happens hundreds of times a day around the country as the embargo on pay as you go pussy. Fed up with sex prison. And many FDA blocks on good treatments available in Europe for what is really trade protection (as is protecting women only selling pussy on long term captive contracts in USA).All he and are Kelly etc. Had to do was to fly over to some European nations, Brazil or other paid sex free destinations. Now they have to pay with their life and also it will cost them extra millions of USD for these prostitutes.
Buying tutes in this planet is clearly conducted in every nations, but safety of it is all about the locations. Also quality and price of tutes differ depending on locations too.
It is bit like weed, it is legal in some nations, but in other nations such possessions can be punished with life sentence to jail or even death penalty.
Those with certain appetites has to be well informed, disciplined and willing to travel to suited locations for their safety to fulfill their certain appetites. Thanks to technology and globalization, it is very easy to be informed and travel from one location to another.
I think Takedown nails an important aspect of it which can answer the environmentally different take the greeks had on gayness as opposed to today. And at the same time considering the slight differences we have in genetics.
While Neurosynth has a problem since he considers genetics to be 100% at fault, and nothing else. Then boxes people into groups. This approach can 100% not answer the fact that ancient greeks had their gyness culture. And I suppose that is why Neurosynth also avoids this part of the discussion.
There is also not one single gene determining gayness. On and off. If it was that easy, we could just make medicines to switch it on and off. It is probably several different genes that in a combination sways you to one side or the other. So instead of 2 boxes, you can have 20 million boxes. And good luck at naming each one of those! And still the boxes would be arbitrary. And then on top of that you have the environmental factors, which in turn may have on and off switches attached to it in combination with the genes. And on top of that again we see people swing back and forth such as Angelina Jolie, the old greeks etc etc. Gay at midday, straight in the afternoon.
CaneUppHosAss
02-23-19, 15:58
Yes, the Kraft arrest sucks although I am not his or NE fan by any stretch. This is high profile, like Spitzer a while ago, and gives credence to the US is sex prison narrative. That is unfortunate, and it masks the reality that US is not particularly worse than many other countries for this hobby. It is not Germany or Thailand or Brazil but also not a repressed Moslem land where they fucking chop of hands, ears and balls not necessarily in that order for thinking the word sex.
This situation seems like a sting operation, and caught some high flying fish, always the goal in such operations. Even in Florida, every day millions of people are fucking and money changing hands. Kraft was either too stupid or careless or someone had him in sights and planned his downfall with meticulous care and a lot of malice.
The assumption you made Neurosynth, was that you defined environmental disposure to be a matter of free will, and choice. But free will is non existent. It is an illusion.
Polyamorist
02-23-19, 19:52
Even billionaires need tutes every now and then. Should went undercover to Brazil, Germany, or Thailand where nobody knows your face or name.Salaam Citizen, it often baffles us that the super-rich and famous make such bad choices. I often think and grieve over the mess Sayyid al-Gore got into, losing his houses because of a standard rub-and-tug that didn't even happen. Not to mention Sayyid al-Franken losing his senatorship over a couple of disputed gropes.
I think the moral of the story is: while it takes a lot of time to figure out how to earn good money, it also takes a lot of time to figure out how to spend good money.
Thanks to technology and globalization, it is very easy to be informed and travel from one location to another.
No Ho-san, it is not that easy. The Internet is a trove of disinformation. You need to personally visit a country to know what it is really like. And if you want the Real Deal, It also helps a lot to learn the local languages. That is why it takes time to progress in life, and many billionaires never really make it to the top!
Neurosynth
02-23-19, 20:18
I agree with you that sexual orientation is not a choice. However, people often use science to promote the misleading concept that sexuality is directly genetic in nature. Just because it's not a choice does not mean that it is determined at birth. Rather, it's genetic disposition in combination with environmental activation. I have as much choice in finding men attractive as I find fat women to be attractive. I cannot just decide to like fat women. Evolution has predisposed me to be attracted to fit women and my environmental upbringing either reinforces or curtails that genetic predisposition. The same can be said with sexual orientation. One does not consciously choose it but it's misleading when some outlets imply that it is determined at birth.We are not in disagreement. There is evidence that genetics contribute to eventual sexual preference, but there is also evidence that environment has some influence.
But the nature / nurture issue isn't particularly relevant to the issue at hand, that being whether one can will their sexual preference to change. I know of no scientific evidence for willing a change in sexual preference, and any number of authorities agree.
Again, not that you are disagreeing with this.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/sports/robert-kraft-jupiter-orchids-arrest.htmlReading this article about the billionaire sports team owner, it seems to suggest the police faked a bomb threat then planted video cameras in the massage parlor while it was being "evacuated". So it sounds like Mr Kraft might have been caught in the act on video tape. Guess this monitoring does not violate "privacy".
Makes you wonder if this could happen in the FKK? There is the same suspicion of "WG traffic" in Germany, so would authorities use this as the basis to monitor what happens inside FKK rooms? Would they devote such resources to conduct a witch hunt on sexual acts without the "preservative"? Neurosynth, I forget your catch phrase about this! At one point, you repeated ad nauseam, so I should remember. My apologies.
Second thought is Mr Kraft, being rich and famous, probably should have looked for a sugar baby.
Neurosynth
02-23-19, 20:24
Just the idea that you quote planned parenthood: the organization who bases everything they do on human depopulation should ring a bell.Who needs science when we can all have our own different facts, and we can substitute political affiliation for critical thinking, right?
Look, I also posted what the American Psychological Association has to say on this. (They say sexual preference isn't a choice. And even if preference changes, it's not a choice.).
How many experts do I have to post? Is there any amount of expertise or evidence that would change your mind? Maybe if you loosen the band on your MAGA hat.
Until then, please post scientific evidence that sexual preference can be willed to change. I doubt you will find any real experts on your side. Maybe some of the "pray your gay away" kooks. They are not scientists.
Polyamorist
02-23-19, 20:46
And even if preference changes, it's not a choice.
That's pretty much how I would define choice. As Sartre said, L'homme est condamne etre libre.
For example: everyone loves pussy just like everyone loves Doritos. But if I see a girl has been munching too hard on either, I am going to hold her responsible for the choices she has made. If she says, "But Poly you know how delicious it is, and we were all born with this raging desire, it's out of my control!" I am going to call that a cop-out. It's like, "So how come all your life you were sucking on something wholesome like asparagus or cream of dick, and then one day you got fat? You're telling me the gene just flipped?" Sure we all have desires, but we can choose whether to act on them or not.
Apropos of nothing, just wondering if the island of Lesbos accepts male visitors these days? Asking for a friend.
I agree with the APA, Neurosynth and Takedown on the issue: sexuality is a not a choice. The combination of nature / nurture sounds reasonable, but my personal opinion (not fact) is that it is probably 70-80 percent nature. I would be curious if biology has ever confirmed this. For instance, psychopaths, on average, have an amygdala that is 18 percent smaller.
I have known a few homosexuals who come from conservative family and religious upbringings. From listening to them, I get the impression that they would have paid any amount of money if there were some therapy that could actually make them heterosexual. They were that desperate. If it was simply a choice, then they would have made the easy choice to be heterosexual in order to appease their family, religion, and well society.
A homosexual can make the choice to live a heterosexual (or even asexual) lifestyle. In other words, deny their sexual desires and not act on them. That is not technically changing their sexual orientation.
I have also known a girl who went through a phase experimenting with girls. She is the hipster, alternative lifestyle type who likes to experiment and prides herself on being "open-minded". She even talks about polyamory. But in the end, she concluded that she is indeed heterosexual. So despite temporarily living a homosexual lifestyle and committing homosexual acts, she was also not able to change her sexual orientation.
Homosexual acts occur in prison. I suspect a portion of them are heterosexual men who choose to commit homosexual acts while in prison. And another portion of them are homosexual men who lived in "denial" of their sexuality prior to being imprisoned.
But the nature / nurture issue isn't particularly relevant to the issue at hand, that being whether one can will their sexual preference to change. I know of no scientific evidence for willing a change in sexual preference, and any number of authorities agree.
Again, not that you are disagreeing with this.I believe you were the one constructing the idea that people can choose it. Not me.
I agree with the APA, Neurosynth and Takedown on the issue: sexuality is a not a choice. The combination of nature / nurture sounds reasonable, but my personal opinion (not fact) is that it is probably 70-80 percent nature. I would be curious if biology has ever confirmed this. For instance, psychopaths, on average, have an amygdala that is 18 percent smaller.
Homosexual acts occur in prison. I suspect a portion of them are heterosexual men who choose to commit homosexual acts while in prison. And another portion of them are homosexual men who lived in "denial" of their sexuality prior to being imprisoned.1. Problem is Neurosynth bases his entire criticism of my initial story on the assumption that there is something known as free will and choice. I never said that. So the entire discussion is completely flawed and seems to be based on false grounds. Determinism doesn't allow for free will or choice.
2. Also in the military. Basically in situations where men are not allowed pussy. So in essence you point at an example similar to the initial story I wrote.
P.S: American psychology foundation or whatever also has tons of stories about determinism. So there are either opposing viewpoints there, or like my view: no choice exist.
My take on genetics vs environment is that genetics changes through millennia based on the environment. So genetics is also a result of determinism. And then gayness is too 100%. Even if parts of it goes through the station known as 'genes'.
I think if you disagree with my stance you might want to read more about determinism.
CaneUppHosAss
02-23-19, 23:06
A certain percent of population are bisexual. It is possible for them to be with both sexes.
Homosexual people forced to be in heterosexual relations- happened throughout history, given that homosexuality was taboo, even a crime and led to downfall and potentially punishment even death. Many many men led secret lives, and probably just as many women did, and probably were confused, frustrated and unhappy but could not do much about it.
Heterosexual people forced to be in homosexual relations - not very common historically because homosexuality was never a societal norm.
As a gentleman wrote below, in certain situations like prisons etc this last one may occur-- more as a crime and as an act of vengeance.
Some heterosexual people may also will themselves to be in homosexuality relations for commercial reasons -- gigolos, porn stars, escorts, FKK girls. I would imagine it must be tough for them to go through with it but perhaps the carrot of money sweetens what may be a very unpleasant experience.
Is it tougher for a homosexual to force self to participate in a hetero act or is it more difficult for a hetero to force self to go through a home act? As a strictly hetero man, it is well nigh impossible for me to willingly go through such an experience. Can't imagine doing it for any amount of money, but then again I have not lacked money for a long time and hence money alone doesn't feel like a huge incentive. Perhaps if someone put a gun to my head, I might go through with a homosexual act but it was not a willful act.
If homosexuality was a simple choice, one would think that the offer of a strong enough incentive will make you accept that choice. For me, personally speaking, no financial offer is tempting enough to make that choice of my free will.
Salaam Citizen, it often baffles us that the super-rich and famous make such bad choices. I often think and grieve over the mess Sayyid al-Gore got into, losing his houses because of a standard rub-and-tug that didn't even happen. Not to mention Sayyid al-Franken losing his senatorship over a couple of disputed gropes.
I think the moral of the story is: while it takes a lot of time to figure out how to earn good money, it also takes a lot of time to figure out how to spend good money.
No Ho-san, it is not that easy. The Internet is a trove of disinformation. You need to personally visit a country to know what it is really like. And if you want the Real Deal, It also helps a lot to learn the local languages. That is why it takes time to progress in life, and many billionaires never really make it to the top!Yes, you are right, first time I went to Artemis in 2009 or 2010, I could not believe what kind of heaven I just walked into and what these girls for just 60 euro per 30 min? I was happy that I made that decision to actually fly all the way to Berlin because I went to Berlin just to checked the place out called FKK I heard about.
And yes, also one can be good at business does not mean they are good at something else also. Mongering world is odd thing because we men all want it, but only some men bother to go further to discover what is really out there by seeking the best place to monger.
Considering I mentioned this extensively in the last discussion in this thread. But then an entire new discussion comes up on the grounds that posters didn't read the last comments regarding determinism. I suppose I could write post #11 regarding determinism.
Or, I could just post a link to a good article I just googled. Since nobody else seems to want to try out google on their own. And because I am a bit lazy at writing now:
https://www.simplypsychology.org/freewill-determinism.html
Pahllus Maximus
02-24-19, 07:33
I downloaded it and enclose here. Extremely creepy and invasive voyeurism on the public purse and the destruction of lives between willing and consensual participants. They sat watching it for days and even doing cum testing. It blows my mind that they invade the place under a fake emergency and then spy on peoples most intimate moments. Is there much difference between this and say filming up ladies skirts at shopping malls etc? And they PROUDLY publicize it. Sickos.
I'm quite disgusted to live in a country that allows this. All in the name of saving women from themselves and the yet to be identified trafficking (would this include airlines and Uber and Starbucks that enable the ladies) , unless of course the victims are homeless or starving or the demunanized, beaten and abused inhabitants the private prison cartel that is kept fully stocked- and countless other examples.
Thank goodness for Europe and Asia. I'm note sure went wrong in USA, this thrived in the 1800's with no worries. The creeping Nordic model is a very dangerous war on men. Or ideology. Justified by some very weak and evidence free zone justifications. I am not sure what gets in the heads of people who criminalise a basic, essential human act: sex being the very cause of our existence and purpose to reproduce and source of joy to so many. It just creeps me out thinking of some cop. On our dime. In a grey cubicle poring over this and laughs at the station. It is like the German movie "Lives of Others" (Das Leben der Anderen) about the Stasi and their taping and filming people going about their lives. Very easy to target political enemies with a pulse once we go down this path.
FKK, here I come, with safety, taxes paid, and good clean, legal fun, out in the open and well regulated.
Pahllus Maximus
02-24-19, 07:51
Yes Mr Ho.
The discovery of FKKs about a decade ago and long before that Thailand was amazing. I am always amazed at the smiles and camaraderie of the men in these places who enjoy but don't make a full time existence out of it and have a real life. I doubt war would be possible with enough pretty and willing girls, booze, food and pleasure. Beautiful women throwing themselves at us. We are like satiated lions at a banquet of gazelles or wild game and endless hunting on fertile fields.
Everytime I arrive back it is like being a child discovering fun again. I expect many readers here are the same. It's why we hang out here. Seeking joy in life as is the natural imperative and point of it all. And yes, some billionaires miss the boat like everybody else who does not shop around widely and go for it when opportunity knocks.
Why on earth is anyone against this in mostly well regulated societies done openly and with the full enthusiastic consent and entrepreneurial girls trying to attract customers in a meritocracy? Who wants to consign us to barren Savannah with no food to starve?
Fat American heifer women finding themselves short of men who refuse to put up with their lazy and complacent ways, letting themselves go, and indulgent moaning are the ones that seem to want pussy trade protection and a few others in their brigade to save the world. Liberal arts bull dykes or fugly, self righteous types seem to be the culprits telling other people what they can do with their bodies, say or think. Their arguments, quite a misnomer, are unpersuasive and simply mindless sheep like baaaaing in agreement amongst themselves. They are fighting evolution itself. Ironically their DNA is unlikely to be replicated.
Thank goodness for Europe and Asia.And Latin America too my friend! Let's not forget the chicas and the garotas!
Yes Mr Ho.
The discovery of FKKs about a decade ago and long before that Thailand was amazing. I am always amazed at the smiles and camaraderie of the men in these places who enjoy but don't make a full time existence out of it and have a real life. I doubt war would be possible with enough pretty and willing girls, booze, food and pleasure. Beautiful women throwing themselves at us. We are like satiated lions at a banquet of gazelles or wild game and endless hunting on fertile fields.
Everytime I arrive back it is like being a child discovering fun again. I expect many readers here are the same. It's why we hang out here. Seeking joy in life as is the natural imperative and point of it all. And yes, some billionaires miss the boat like everybody else who does not shop around widely and go for it when opportunity knocks..Yes, you are right, right after good sex with beautiful women, the last thing men want is to fight or be aggressive.
FKK format is the good example of German liberalism and their good organizational culture admitting that even you forbid prostitution, it just go underground and make society worst, so let organize it and regulate it on proper format such as FKK as we see today. Happy us mongers LOL!
Once upon a time, sex with beautiful girls one after another was limited and access was granted with rather tough conditions, one of that is marriage etc. , but now it is no longer like that and some men like us who are willing to go extra mile to discover are now liberated with such restriction, it is sex on demand that we can choose.
I can see feminist going against that, but only thing I can say to them is that, do not hate the players, hate the game LOL!
We live in lucky era, so it is wise to put old mentality aside when it comes to this and enjoy young beauties that are waiting for us to fuck them for moderate costs. After all, all we get out of this life is good memories. So let us collect that in many formats and one of that is fucking beautiful girls one after another.
As you say, fucking beautiful girls for masculine men are like hope in life that one can never get bored of. I calm down a lot, but still as you said, I got drive also before entering FKK on first day of trip straight from airport to FKK because once I change and walk into main bar of FKK, new guaranteed encounters are there waiting for me. It is like we arrange new fateful sexual meeting that only happen few times in life over and over again ourselves by going there.
I monger here in Tokyo too mostly beautiful Eurasian girls, which is good, but German FKK is good for me for white girls and also thanks to German liberal immigration policies that I also enjoy fucking many beauties from all different nations to serve my lust for exotic beauties who are often half German white and half something else like Arab, Iranian etc. We are lucky to live in this era.
Why on earth is anyone against this in mostly well regulated societies done openly and with the full enthusiastic consent and entrepreneurial girls trying to attract customers in a meritocracy? Who wants to consign us to barren Savannah with no food to starve?The idea is that men cannot have something not also women would have the same access to. And given girls can have sex 20 times a day, and men over time perhaps only can have sex 3 times a day (dick will go soft, and on ugly women even softer), biology makes this trade so extremely much harder to replicate in a feminist society that wants everything the same as men.
Smoke Light
02-24-19, 14:52
We are not in disagreement. There is evidence that genetics contribute to eventual sexual preference, but there is also evidence that environment has some influence.
But the nature / nurture issue isn't particularly relevant to the issue at hand, that being whether one can will their sexual preference to change. I know of no scientific evidence for willing a change in sexual preference, and any number of authorities agree.
Again, not that you are disagreeing with this.I am a member of my gym for 20+ years. Back in time in the men's shower room there were no stalls, everybody showered in the open. In about 2005 the operator installed the stalls with closed doors. Only few people used them first couple of years at times like early mornings when showers were crowded. Nowadays it changed to the exact opposite, most new club members and most younger guys go to the stalls to shower and do it in and out neatly wrapped in a towel.
Smoke Light
02-24-19, 15:32
I am not sure what gets in the heads of people who criminalise a basic, essential human act: sex being the very cause of our existence and purpose to reproduce and source of joy to so many. It just creeps me out thinking of some cop. On our dime. In a grey cubicle poring over this and laughs at the station.An utter disrespect to people's privacy for "justified" causes is a new norm. A frustration for people with basic decency, joy for shameless feminists.
What gets in the heads of people who criminalize our hobby? Majority of women lacking love for sex equate prostitution with spreading HIV and other horrible disease. Therefore, every prostitute working in such "despicable" conditions must be a forced worker. No human being can do this by via consensual choice. Of course every sex worker is a victim of trafficking. Plus all money earned by poor victims goes to the pimps anyways by definition. Applause! USA, USA.
CaneUppHosAss
02-24-19, 16:22
Hello Sir,
A lot of frustration, dejection and angst. While predictable, I would recommend to tone down the hyperbole. It is not uncommon to have these high profile examples making busts once a decade or so. But the debate has shifted a long time ago in the US. Most people recognize the invasion of privacy, the abuse heaped on a rich but private citizen who is widowed and not even technically cheating. In the end, this will make very limited dent in any practical matter. Knowledgeable mongers have survived and done well for themselves in the US and yes believe it or not, fucking goes on in the US. If the Kraft story is used as a pretext to simply heap scorn on the US in forums like this, so be it but the reality is not as bad as what's sometimes portrayed in angst ridden comments.
Neurosynth
02-24-19, 19:41
...
Look, I also posted what the American Psychological Association has to say on this. (They say sexual preference isn't a choice. And even if preference changes, it's not a choice.).
That's pretty much how I would define choice. As Sartre said, L'homme est condamne etre libre.
...
Changing one's sexual preference towards men would mean that at some point one found men not-attractive, but wished one could find them attractive, and then from there *somehow* attraction would develop.
If one wants to stumble towards the intellectual tar pit that is the question of free will, that's always possible. And not terribly pragmatic.
In all other matters we don't assume that just because something changes it is because it was willed to change. Objects fall because of gravity, but that doesn't mean the objects "wanted" to fall. There is something similar here. Some combination of factors will cause a person to change in sexual preference. That doesn't mean the change was willed. Choice is not simply being there when a change happens. It's only choice when it has causal force.
Neurosynth
02-24-19, 20:03
While Neurosynth has a problem since he considers genetics to be 100% at fault, and nothing else. Then boxes people into groups. This approach can 100% not answer the fact that ancient greeks had their gyness culture. And I suppose that is why Neurosynth also avoids this part of the discussion.I never said that. I said sexual preference is not a choice. If it's 100% caused by genetics, it's not a choice. If it's 100% caused by environment, it's not a choice. And if it's a combination, it's not a choice.
And if Greece had a "gyness (sic) culture" it was only possible because there was attraction.
1. Problem is Neurosynth bases his entire criticism of my initial story on the assumption that there is something known as free will and choice. I never said that. So the entire discussion is completely flawed and seems to be based on false grounds. Determinism doesn't allow for free will or choice.
. . .
So now you are contradicting yourself. Which do you believe, that sexual orientation can or cannot be a matter of choice? You were opposed to the notion that orientation is not a choice. I. e. You were arguing in favor of orientation being a choice. Now you are saying that, essentially, nothing is a choice.
Make up your mind.
Neurosynth
02-24-19, 20:10
The idea is that men cannot have something not also women would have the same access to. And given girls can have sex 20 times a day, and men over time perhaps only can have sex 3 times a day (dick will go soft, and on ugly women even softer), biology makes this trade so extremely much harder to replicate in a feminist society that wants everything the same as men.So you object to feminism because men can't have 20 orgasms a day? This is why society should oppress women and deny them equal rights under the law and in social practice?
What's next, because black men have (slightly) longer penises, they should also be oppressed by white men?
Do you even know what feminism means?
The idea is that men cannot have something not also women would have the same access to. And given girls can have sex 20 times a day, and men over time perhaps only can have sex 3 times a day (dick will go soft, and on ugly women even softer), biology makes this trade so extremely much harder to replicate in a feminist society that wants everything the same as men.Wait till the science kicks in, I am sure soon or later men will be able to have sex 20 times per day with no problem with stronger orgasms LOL!
Polyamorist
02-25-19, 01:04
Why on earth is anyone against this in mostly well regulated societies done openly and with the full enthusiastic consent and entrepreneurial girls trying to attract customers in a meritocracy? Who wants to consign us to barren Savannah with no food to starve?Cui bono? Big employers.
The 19th century "They'll work harder if they're hungry" evolved to the 20th century "They'll work harder if they're not screwing all the time and smoking weed. " America in particular is like a big experiment in sex deprivation. And in a way this is effective: people work longer hours than in other countries. The problem is most of this by now is just makework. And soon robots (like self-driving trucks) will take the last real jobs.
Here is a reminder of Maslow's hierarchy of needs:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg
The idea is that you can't progress to the higher needs until you have first satisfied the basic ones. For instance if you are suffering from a toothache you won't be obsessing about gaining respect from your fellow professionals.
Food is at the base of the pyramid, but so is sex. What happens if there is a constant sexual deficit as with many young American males? The danger is that the individual remains fixed at a pre teen level of psychosexual development (Freud's latency period).
Women do not have such a problem finding sex in the US and so they can move on and develop a higher Emotional Intelligence than men -- sadly they will often use this in a manipulative way!
People who suffer a sexual gap need to fill that somehow. The need is not always going to be sublimated in a productive way. At a time of unprecedented wealth, suicides and drug overdoses are at a record high in the US. Even life expectancy has started to decline.
Meanwhile those of us guys who have finally closed the gap in the FKK world should not view this as a final shore but a base on which to continue our psychosocial development -- climbing Maslow's pyramid.
Since I am not a credentialed psychologist, some people on this thread will follow a pattern of saying I have no right to comment on these matters where "experts" from the American Psychological Association have already determined scientific truth. Well, what has the APA been up to recently?
https://medium.com/gender-studies-for-men/quackery-snake-oil-and-charlatans-the-psychologists-associations-war-on-men-and-boys-a37a1ef9c0ab
So much for "science". It sounds like the organization has been taken over by Nurse Ratched types. This is an example of how the sexual dysfunction at the base of the Western individual's mind is paralleled by a dysfunction in the shared pool of knowledge: a poison of myriad fallacies circulating up through science, education, the Internet, etc. And so we must fall back on our own personal experiences to know the real truth.
"The wise man speaks of what he sees, the idiot of what he hears. " -- Old Arab saying.
Nick The G
02-25-19, 02:49
Here is a reminder of Maslow's hierarchy of needs:....Well, here is a reminder of a later form of Maslow's hierarchy of needs (revised model dating from 1970), some of the levels are not indicated in the english version of Wikipedia:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Erweiterte_Bedrfnishierarchie_%281970%29_nach_Maslow.png
Abraham Maslow died 1970. From 1980 on until nowadays, Ken Wilber has developed his "integral theory" model which is far more complex and differentiated. Again, (only) in the german version of wikipedia, there is a summary table showing different levels indicating human development under different perspectives (section "Theorie der Ebenen"). One of the columns in this table (far left) is the Maslow hierarchy.
Human beings are for sure a bit more complex than Maslows model, suited mainly for the western societies.
Cui bono? Big employers.
Here is a reminder of Maslow's hierarchy of needs:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg....
Food is at the base of the pyramid, but so is sex. What happens if there is a constant sexual deficit as with many young American males? ...
Eerh no, sex is not at the base of the Maslow pyramid. More like at the upper middle it seems.
Making big employers the primary winners is just a re-serving of marxist conspiracy theories. Women are the winners. Women will stop trading sex for resources as soon as they can get one tenth of the same resources through other means.
That's why in Today's world we now have cities of 15 to 20 millions with hardly any opportunity for a non wealthy straight man to get laid. Very sad and not at all what we would have predicted some 40 years ago when cheap air travel put sex travel within reach of the average man.
So you object to feminism because men can't have 20 orgasms a day? This is why society should oppress women and deny them equal rights under the law and in social practice?
What's next, because black men have (slightly) longer penises, they should also be oppressed by white men?
Do you even know what feminism means?Can you please stop wasting my bandwidth with useless assumption regarding things I have never uttered? Take your fake news elsewhere.
I never said that. I said sexual preference is not a choice. If it's 100% caused by genetics, it's not a choice. If it's 100% caused by environment, it's not a choice. And if it's a combination, it's not a choice.
And if Greece had a "gyness (sic) culture" it was only possible because there was attraction.
So now you are contradicting yourself. Which do you believe, that sexual orientation can or cannot be a matter of choice? You were opposed to the notion that orientation is not a choice. I. e. You were arguing in favor of orientation being a choice. Now you are saying that, essentially, nothing is a choice.
Make up your mind.1. Post #12834:
I am for example sometimes lazy with my spelling, especially outside of work when I write on a phone. Because I just type fast and don't mind with spellchecking too much. It looks incredibly unprofessional you might say.
Here are two opposite takes on how to look at misspellings:
https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/17-spelling-errors-that-make-you-look-really-unprofessional.html
https://gizmodo.com/study-people-who-point-out-typos-are-jerks-1767969516
So basically, a misspelling is claimed to seem unprofessional. This has gone so far as that nobody would object to it. And not strangely so due to how school teachers grade you on your spelling. But also, if you believe in that, science claims you are also a jerk. Since even if you don't always point it out, you may think so without saying it.[Deleted by Admin]
2. I never wrote it was a choice either. Simply due to choice being an illusion (read: determinism). Something I referred to over 5 times in the last discussion in this thread too. Just 1-2 weeks ago.
I just reread all my posts here, and I definitely never did write anyone chooses anything. Please quote me on that. And don't edit a quote if you want to continue with your fake news. This was an assumption you made. And I suspect it was due to you not understanding what determinism really is.
3. I was arguing in favor of you wasting my bandwidth. Nothing else. Because you don't seem to want to read. You just seem to want to assume.
I agree with Polyamorist here. His stance is backed pretty well by anthropological theory. There was also a leaked document from CIA in the 70's, referred to in several books, claiming that the reason women got the power to vote, and the push for feminism was approved, was to sex starve men in order to make men work harder.
Call it a conspiracy theory if you want. I call it logic. And a bit of machiavellianism.
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