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Ronaldinjo
03-29-12, 10:45
Good insight.

Like Jojosun says: 'It's all in the eyes of beer holder.

In general, it's so true, and it does depend on what a man is used to looking and getting. If a man is used to looking and getting below average girls, suddenly an above average girl shows up, he'll think she's a stunner. But you'll be surprised, quite a few guys "over 50, bald, fat, some with eyeglasses dirty blue jeans and t-shirts" knows the difference between a 6 and a 9; perhaps they'd just like to give readers the impression that they are doing a girl who is not better looking than she really is.


You know, when I went to RIO I see many guys over 50, bald, fat, some with eyeglasses dirty blue jeans and t-shirts. To them probably every girl is a 10, so it all depends.

The good thing about RIO is that you see the girls body and you can see her pussy (private dance) before you take her home, not all pussies look nice and pretty.

I don't mind visiting RIO if I just happen to be Kiev for business or whatever but I will never travel to Kiev just for RIO, most girls are just average or below average, its very hard to find a good looking dancer to take home outside the VIP room, and some of the girls in the VIP room won't go home with you, they are just dancers.

Do you guys know a good site for uploading videos? I can upload a video of a dancer masturbating on my sofa while I was in the shower.

If you you have a weak personality the dancers will not stay with you for 3 hours, they will come to your flat, will give you a covered BJ and have sex and then waste time talking to you and so on they are very good in killing time, you have to make it clear to them its for 3 hours, there was a dancer who was giving me a BJ and a hand job like we have only 15 minutes, I had to slow her down and tell her I don't want a handjob and remind her we have 3 hours not 15 minutes

Cruiser D
03-29-12, 14:40
I can only assume English is not your first language and you have some comprehension issues.

I never said to go whoring on Khreshatic. What I did say to someone who has been to Kiev often is to ask why he keeps going to an establishment like Rio when all he has to do wander around a bit to find beautiful Ukrainian girls who are basically all over the city and very approachable.

It's hard to say I am all theory when I have actually done everything I have talked about.

After coming to Ukraine for 8 years I find the best approach for finding normal girls is chatting them up in everyday settings and online. I've found the best place for finding p4p girls to be online, specifically Mamba.

But that is just my approach, one that I have a lot of success with. That doesn't mean you or anyone else will. But I also post a lot of rock solid advice and information for the noobs and sex tourist. I have great success in the US dating world and it would stand to reason I would in the Ukrainian dating world and I do. YMMV.

Take for example last night. I went to Shooter's to join Irish Lad at his usual table. Hunter Dave was also there. I'm pretty sure I was the only male in the place who wasn't looking to hook up with anyone. Thanks mostly to the skills of Vika, Masha and Lilia earlier that day; I had to give Lilia the boot in order to go. I was there strictly to observe the kinetic energy and to hang out with IL for the night. I'm not sure if I will go Sunday night and I know I will not be in Kiev for another 6 months so I wanted to spend some quality time with the gang. If I was looking to 'hook up' that is as easy as a phone call or sms. no need to go play night club games.


Now here is a post that is total BS and hilarious. 99. 999 per cent of the women walking Khreshatic are just nice Ukranian girls that want nothing to do with mongering. If you want to look like a predator, start approaching the girls on the street. The problem with this member is he is all theory. He has a problem realizing newbies have to begin at ground floor and slowly work there way up the pussy ladder in Ukraine. He believes that we should be jumping from stage 1 to stage 5 instantly and skip everything in between. He holds an edge over us newbies because he has been here a lot longer and chooses to bash are baby steps to FSU pussy heaven.

That's right JoJo....slowly ease your finger away from the 'reply' button....

LilJoey
03-30-12, 01:08
Wish you a nice trip, enjoy yourself there Joey. And please report us about all the hot girls you see in Rio, if you don't mind aske them if the stage is going o change in middle and beginning of may due to exams, and if you find little time maybe have some glance at solid gold and red lion in kreshatik. Best wishes dear Liljoey.Thank you for your good wishes, and your support. I hope my posts have been helpful to you in planning your trip to Kiev. It is an adventure you will enjoy and remember regardless of how many hotties you succeed in having. It is a great mongering environment with different aspects so that everyone seems to find a niche and have genuine fun with younger ladies despite being on the wrong side of 40.

This trip I have quite a bit of pre-arranged dates with girls I know already from previous trips, one from River Palace days, some from top-modals. Com and mamba. Ru, and some Rio girls whose numbers I have gotten, and who I have had that were awesome and must repeats, as well as a freebie date with an ex-Rio girl who I have been corresponding with since she left that club over a year ago. I have a few more days in town this visit, so I hope to spend some daylight time trying to chat up normal girls in the street and shopping plazas and see how far I can get with them, as well as try a lot more mamba girls and other websites to see what is the highest level of beauty girls I can get to that way. I feel it is worth the trouble involved because if I can get girls anywhere near the level of beauty of the young hotties I have taken out from Rio, it is certainly much more economical and cost effective than Rio. The times I tried mamba in the past, I only came up with girls who were above average like 6's or 7's, but if I keep at it maybe I can develop some contacts with some girls who are at least 8's, and that's pretty good if you can find an 8 with good service and for $100 or $75.

But of course, some of the evenings I will go to Rio too, because it's a very good option for nighttime playing, and I don't mind the price at least for a couple of dates during a trip. I also want to see if the nightclub WG's can be negotiated to 3 hours for $300 or even $400, which would make them competitive with the Rio prices, because it was reported recently that it is possible, whereas previously the nightclub girls were much higher priced, demanding $400 for 2 hours ($200 / hr) or $300 for 2 hours ($150 / hr) , which was higher than Rio. Maybe things are changing. We'll see.

I don't feel I want to go above a benchmark of a net cost of 100 Euro / hour for GFE service including BBBJ, with a girl on at least an 8 level, in a place like Kiev, where the lower rate of $100 / hour and lower is common enough.

As in past trips, while I am in Europe, I also want to experience my other favorite playland. So I have also planned a foray to FKK-land for weekend of April 18 to 22 and on the 18th I plan to hit Vienna, primarily to nail the awesome Joanna about whom I posted previously, and Artemis in Berlin, and I will be in Frankfurt on April 20-22 at FKK Oase and Palace.

With Kiev from March 30 to April 4, and FKK's from April 18 to 22, this April will be a very memorable one.

Happy Mongering

Jojosun
03-30-12, 11:35
Can we please stop the mud-slinging to coin a phrase.

Cruiser has contributed loads, and is entitled to his opinion. Personally never met the guy, but never read anything to be offended by.

What Cruiser is saying is true, but as a newbie most of us don't / didn't have confidence from day 1 because of western conditioning.

In reality you should be at an advantage on day 1 as it is the youngest you will ever be in Kyiv.

So stop blaming others and their opinions and concentrate on your own game.

And yes, $150 an hour is close to extortionate here I have to say. There are loads of great p4p on Minuet, topModals and Mamba,

And if you have the "game"/personality, you will score a freebie in Kyiv way better than you could back home.

My fear is that last sentence may only have 2 months to run until the Euro footy rolls into town to spoil everything!Trust The Knight to post in Time about his honest opinion of Cruiser, which I agree with, much in the same way when he stepped in to post about Liljoey, when he got all the hammering about RIO Club. Anyone who thinks RIO CLUB is NASTY, fair enough, its a matter of Opinion. Personally I just use it for Eye Candy. I did post some time back about other strip clubs including Tixiomut on the other side of the Dnipro, as well as other alternatives for fun in Kiev. But rather than going on & on about Rio Bashing or Rio Cheerleading, posters who claim that they know it all about Kiev, would do better by providing Alternatives to the Usual Tourist Places for the benefit of Newbies or for someone who wants a bit of change.

Tha last thing I want to do is fly my Ass all the way from London to chase some UA village girls, hillybellies on Kreschatick, or go round trying to chat up girls half my age in Shopping Malls or Stores.

It reminds me of that Film Breezy. I spent more than half of my life Chatting up & Shagging girls all over the world, and if I wanted to do this, I would rather do it at present right here in London, or Washington DC. Where all you need is a bit of BS to score with ladies, who have left the 18/30 Club.

Hence the need for me to head to KIEV, for Mongering, and not to play the Dating Game.

Simply not interested in it in EE countries. Mongering is cheaper for me than Dating In Kiev, or London for that matter.

One needs some sense of humor to be on here. How else can I now count Cruiser as my newly Acquired Best Chum, when he has just called me a NERD on a Revenge Mission? Revenge Of The Nerds, I ask you.

Sorry CD, couldn't ease my Finger from the Reply Button, like you suggested yesterday.

Climaxnow. Got a 19 year old girl at US $150 / hour the first time, ok high for Kiev. Then he did post that the same girl came back with 2 other older girls with great performance skills for US$150 / hour. Reasonable. .

This is US$75 per girl / hour.

If he is to take a girl on a dinner & booze session, it will cost this much, or more in a good place in Kiev.

Besides one needs to learn the ropes & start some where. Crawl before you walk.

Now he has got an inner circle of few girls, which is not a bad start for a newbie, and a Referrals path in Kiev. The best way Mate, but I would keep it for myself, if I were you. Or do it on a Trade&Part Exchange with other members. The Pyramid Scheme

A P4P Swingers kind of Club. And when a Lady in the scheme gets to a cerain Age, male members can have her Mummfied & take her to Lavra Caves. Then old members & newbies can visit, buy candles & pay their respect.

Climaxnow might get further discounts from the girls, if he can play it cool, and tell them he wants to CLIMAXLATER.

To The Knight.

I am not worried about the Euro Footy 12. I am Bloody Worried about The UA getting into The EU, and I only have so many mongering years Left. .

Chao from a Sunny & Sexy London.

Prosal
03-30-12, 15:29
Trust The Knight to post in Time about his honest opinion of Cruiser, which I agree with, much in the same way when he stepped in to post about Liljoey, when he got all the hammering about RIO Club. Anyone who thinks RIO CLUB is NASTY, fair enough, its a matter of Opinion. Personally I just use it for Eye Candy. I did post some time back about other strip clubs including Tixiomut on the other side of the Dnipro, as well as other alternatives for fun in Kiev. But rather than going on & on about Rio Bashing or Rio Cheerleading, posters who claim that they know it all about Kiev, would do better by providing Alternatives to the Usual Tourist Places for the benefit of Newbies or for someone who wants a bit of change.

Tha last thing I want to do is fly my Ass all the way from London to chase some UA village girls, hillybellies on Kreschatick, or go round trying to chat up girls half my age in Shopping Malls or Stores.

It reminds me of that Film Breezy. I spent more than half of my life Chatting up & Shagging girls all over the world, and if I wanted to do this, I would rather do it at present right here in London, or Washington DC. Where all you need is a bit of BS to score with ladies, who have left the 18/30 Club.

Hence the need for me to head to KIEV, for Mongering, and not to play the Dating Game.

Simply not interested in it in EE countries. Mongering is cheaper for me than Dating In Kiev, or London for that matter.

One needs some sense of humor to be on here. How else can I now count Cruiser as my newly Acquired Best Chum, when he has just called me a NERD on a Revenge Mission? Revenge Of The Nerds, I ask you.

Sorry CD, couldn't ease my Finger from the Reply Button, like you suggested yesterday.

Climaxnow. Got a 19 year old girl at US $150 / hour the first time, ok high for Kiev. Then he did post that the same girl came back with 2 other older girls with great performance skills for US$150 / hour. Reasonable.

This is US$75 per girl / hour.

If he is to take a girl on a dinner & booze session, it will cost this much, or more in a good place in Kiev.

Besides one needs to learn the ropes & start some where. Crawl before you walk.

Now he has got an inner circle of few girls, which is not a bad start for a newbie, and a Referrals path in Kiev. The best way Mate, but I would keep it for myself, if I were you. Or do it on a Trade&Part Exchange with other members. The Pyramid Scheme

A P4P Swingers kind of Club. And when a Lady in the scheme gets to a cerain Age, male members can have her Mummfied & take her to Lavra Caves. Then old members & newbies can visit, buy candles & pay their respect.

Climaxnow might get further discounts from the girls, if he can play it cool, and tell them he wants to CLIMAXLATER.

To The Knight.

I am not worried about the Euro Footy 12. I am Bloody Worried about The UA getting into The EU, and I only have so many mongering years Left. .

Chao from a Sunny & Sexy London.What a rambling, semi-coherent, painful-reading and condescending BS nonsense (as usual).

Anyway, obviously the fact that the real treasure of FSU is in the freebie scene and that relationships with women can exist without money being the primary motivation seems beyond your comprehension. It sounds like it has been a while since the last time you were with a girl who didn't expect any financial benefice but simply liked you as a person (if that ever happened).

Cruiser D
03-30-12, 18:57
Rio is an average strip club with some average girls. When it was $200. The same as RP it was a decent alternative for straight up p4p.

I do know all about Kiev and I have provided alternatives. You are just too lazy to follow any of them. I suggest semi pro trolling at D'Lux.

The first thing you want to do it pay the UA village girls, hillybellies (what is this?) or the girls half your age in shopping malls is $300-$500 to fuck you. Who do you think it is plying the poles at Rio, but these aforementioned girls?

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Fuck a Ukrainian hooker in DC or London and save the airfare and apartment rental.

Dating and whoring are a wash money wise if you do it right. When dating turns into whoring or whoring into dating you are doing something wrong.


Trust The Knight to post in Time about his honest opinion of Cruiser, which I agree with, much in the same way when he stepped in to post about Liljoey, when he got all the hammering about RIO Club. Anyone who thinks RIO CLUB is NASTY, fair enough, its a matter of Opinion. Personally I just use it for Eye Candy. I did post some time back about other strip clubs including Tixiomut on the other side of the Dnipro, as well as other alternatives for fun in Kiev. But rather than going on & on about Rio Bashing or Rio Cheerleading, posters who claim that they know it all about Kiev, would do better by providing Alternatives to the Usual Tourist Places for the benefit of Newbies or for someone who wants a bit of change.

Tha last thing I want to do is fly my Ass all the way from London to chase some UA village girls, hillybellies on Kreschatick, or go round trying to chat up girls half my age in Shopping Malls or Stores.

It reminds me of that Film Breezy. I spent more than half of my life Chatting up & Shagging girls all over the world, and if I wanted to do this, I would rather do it at present right here in London, or Washington DC. Where all you need is a bit of BS to score with ladies, who have left the 18/30 Club.

Hence the need for me to head to KIEV, for Mongering, and not to play the Dating Game.

Simply not interested in it in EE countries. Mongering is cheaper for me than Dating In Kiev, or London for that matter.

One needs some sense of humor to be on here. How else can I now count Cruiser as my newly Acquired Best Chum, when he has just called me a NERD on a Revenge Mission? Revenge Of The Nerds, I ask you.

I'm pretty sure climax was paying $150 per hour per girl.

Sharing is caring.

Sorry CD, couldn't ease my Finger from the Reply Button, like you suggested yesterday.

Climaxnow. Got a 19 year old girl at US $150 / hour the first time, ok high for Kiev. Then he did post that the same girl came back with 2 other older girls with great performance skills for US$150 / hour. Reasonable. .

This is US$75 per girl / hour.

If he is to take a girl on a dinner & booze session, it will cost this much, or more in a good place in Kiev.

Besides one needs to learn the ropes & start some where. Crawl before you walk.

Now he has got an inner circle of few girls, which is not a bad start for a newbie, and a Referrals path in Kiev. The best way Mate, but I would keep it for myself, if I were you. Or do it on a Trade&Part Exchange with other members. The Pyramid Scheme

A P4P Swingers kind of Club. And when a Lady in the scheme gets to a cerain Age, male members can have her Mummfied & take her to Lavra Caves. Then old members & newbies can visit, buy candles & pay their respect.

Climaxnow might get further discounts from the girls, if he can play it cool, and tell them he wants to CLIMAXLATER.

To The Knight.

I am not worried about the Euro Footy 12. I am Bloody Worried about The UA getting into The EU, and I only have so many mongering years Left. .

Chao from a Sunny & Sexy London.

Jojosun
03-30-12, 20:22
Rio is an average strip club with some average girls. When it was $200. The same as RP it was a decent alternative for straight up p4p.

I do know all about Kiev and I have provided alternatives. You are just too lazy to follow any of them. I suggest semi pro trolling at D'Lux.

The first thing you want to do it pay the UA village girls, hillybellies (what is this?) or the girls half your age in shopping malls is $300-$500 to fuck you. Who do you think it is plying the poles at Rio, but these aforementioned girls?

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Fuck a Ukrainian hooker in DC or London and save the airfare and apartment rental.

Dating and whoring are a wash money wise if you do it right. When dating turns into whoring or whoring into dating you are doing something wrong.1. I have never paid more than US$ 100 to a WG in KIEV, never have, Yes, Never Will? I don't know. Never say never in Mongering, just like In Politics.

Both are about Negotiations & Supply and Demand.

2. I go to Rio, as well as to other clubs to have a good penetrating Looky, and a Lap Dance & thats it, much in the same way I do in London, where I usually get in for Free.

I am a free man I can F go where I like, Right, and if my Pockets are deep enough, then I will blow as much money as I can afford, without getting a second mortgage, or needing to explain WHY.

3. I meant getting Freebie ladies in London & Washington DC, who are 35 plus club, is dead easy.

4. From day one on this thread, I had to find things out for myself, and follow my intution.

5 Even at the height of the swine flu thing epedemy as they called it in UA, when everyone was Running out of Kiev, I landed there.

Just got a Jab in london & off on a nearly empty Wizzair to Kiev, landing in an empty Kiev Airport. 6. Even seniors like Ukeboy& Gergiev advised not to go there.

In Fact Ukeboy posted here that he was leaving Kiev for a long Holiday.

Had a great time there & in River Palace where it I was JOJO, who was Fixing the Prices & the services required.

And it was me who was declining DFK& BBBJ.

The moral of all of this BS, is that its not me looking for Tips or Alternatives, but merely saying that Bashing or Cheerleading one Particular venue, is no good for newbies without posting the Alternatives to Kiev.

And one more time, I am only interested in Pros& semi Pros. Not interested in Freebies or being lectured about them, or how where to pick them up. .

Having said that, good to hear from you again. PAL

Horny Monger
03-31-12, 04:14
I know there's lots of controversy about LJ's posts, but I believe they're based on facts, credible and helpful to newbies with limited time and adequate resource. IMHO it's pretty amazing that he did what he did during his frequent short trips to Kiev. I mean he's new, doesn't speak the language and did so much during each of his trips.


Now you're being just plain silly. Do you really hold by the ridiculous conspiracy theory you just wrote in your last post? Your shrill tone does not bespeak any objectivity.

My reason for trying to expose the baselessness of your opinion about my reports is because I regard the info I have written to be a valuable resource to the members of the forum and I have taken pains to make it the most accurate information I could obtain by personal observation and experience. I have also always incorporated into my ongoing reports the opinions and insights of others who made good points, and served as a basis to correct something I had written previously. This is because I wanted there to be a reliable resource with accurate information available here. I am ready and have always been ready to defer to a fact or correct insight.

But you had no facts, just your arbitrary feeling that Cruiser Dave knows better than me what a pretty girl looks like. And that's ridiculous. You don't know me and you have not been to the club to be in a position to judge my opinions.

Therefore I felt you must be rebutted when you cast doubt on facts that I know to be true, not because I am thin skinned, which I am not, or a dolt, which I don't think I am, but because I want to preserve the truth for the benefit of the newbies and those readers trying to learn the ins and outs of mongering in Kiev. There are no commandments, just stuff I have discovered that worked for me, so I passed it on to others. There are mistakes one can make that I have learned the hard way can decrease one's success at a place like Rio, so I pass it on.

You want to invent another approach to snag hotties at Rio, be my guest, test it out and if you report it in good faith, I will try your recommendations too. It's the pussy that we can get that should be the goal of these reports, not tearing each other down. I'm sure you agree with at least that.

Ronaldinjo
04-01-12, 09:46
Thank you for your good wishes, and your support. I hope my posts have been helpful to you in planning your trip to Kiev. It is an adventure you will enjoy and remember regardless of how many hotties you succeed in having. It is a great mongering environment with different aspects so that everyone seems to find a niche and have genuine fun with younger ladies despite being on the wrong side of 40.

This trip I have quite a bit of pre-arranged dates with girls I know already from previous trips, one from River Palace days, some from top-modals. Com and mamba. Ru, and some Rio girls whose numbers I have gotten, and who I have had that were awesome and must repeats, as well as a freebie date with an ex-Rio girl who I have been corresponding with since she left that club over a year ago. I have a few more days in town this visit, so I hope to spend some daylight time trying to chat up normal girls in the street and shopping plazas and see how far I can get with them, as well as try a lot more mamba girls and other websites to see what is the highest level of beauty girls I can get to that way. I feel it is worth the trouble involved because if I can get girls anywhere near the level of beauty of the young hotties I have taken out from Rio, it is certainly much more economical and cost effective than Rio. The times I tried mamba in the past, I only came up with girls who were above average like 6's or 7's, but if I keep at it maybe I can develop some contacts with some girls who are at least 8's, and that's pretty good if you can find an 8 with good service and for $100 or $75.

But of course, some of the evenings I will go to Rio too, because it's a very good option for nighttime playing, and I don't mind the price at least for a couple of dates during a trip. I also want to see if the nightclub WG's can be negotiated to 3 hours for $300 or even $400, which would make them competitive with the Rio prices, because it was reported recently that it is possible, whereas previously the nightclub girls were much higher priced, demanding $400 for 2 hours ($200 / hr) or $300 for 2 hours ($150 / hr) , which was higher than Rio. Maybe things are changing. We'll see.

I don't feel I want to go above a benchmark of a net cost of 100 Euro / hour for GFE service including BBBJ, with a girl on at least an 8 level, in a place like Kiev, where the lower rate of $100 / hour and lower is common enough.

As in past trips, while I am in Europe, I also want to experience my other favorite playland. So I have also planned a foray to FKK-land for weekend of April 18 to 22 and on the 18th I plan to hit Vienna, primarily to nail the awesome Joanna about whom I posted previously, and Artemis in Berlin, and I will be in Frankfurt on April 20-22 at FKK Oase and Palace.

With Kiev from March 30 to April 4, and FKK's from April 18 to 22, this April will be a very memorable one.

Happy MongeringEnjoy yourself dear Lj, hope your trip will be as memorable as possible. Your tips certainly helps and helped me when I was in Kiev, especially for Rio, tried mamba, delux, buddha bar and Rio then. I liked Rio, but the quantity of girls never exeeded 40 when I have been there, and I counted 5 real hotties maximum. Maybe I was unlucky then. I could tell you that I came early on and have been patient to see all the lineups and my visitations have been in the weekend days. Lj, is Tanya (pretty blond) still working at Rio and is it possible to take her home? Which are the hottest girls with takeout possibilities that you have seen there?

LilJoey
04-02-12, 02:37
Enjoy yourself dear Lj, hope your trip will be as memorable as possible. Your tips certainly helps and helped me when I was in Kiev, especially for Rio, tried mamba, delux, buddha bar and Rio then. I liked Rio, but the quantity of girls never exeeded 40 when I have been there, and I counted 5 real hotties maximum. Maybe I was unlucky then. I could tell you that I came early on and have been patient to see all the lineups and my visitations have been in the weekend days. Lj, is Tanya (pretty blond) still working at Rio and is it possible to take her home? Which are the hottest girls with takeout possibilities that you have seen there?It seems there is an ebb and flow to the line up at a place like Rio, and sometimes the line up I have seen contains quite a few hotties to choose from. And then other times I have been there, it is less filled with hotties. For example, last nite after I went to Arena City Beer Hall to meet up with Hunter Dave, a very charming fellow as to whom it is easy to see why he is so inundated with hot pussy (if you've read his posts about his exploits, you'll know what I mean) , I went on to Rio at about midnite with the intention to take out a hottie, and if I could find one that would stay on until the next day, perhaps violate my own hard-learned rule (about sex first and then take girls out for other things) and take her over to D'lux to meet up with Hunter Dave and the girl he was meeting with. Well, I got to Rio and first went to the downstairs bar where Dima was managing things. I sat there for a good while becoming increasingly impatient with seeing average looking girls come on stage one after the other. I called Dima over to ask him what the Hell was going on and am I wasting my time waiting for the rest of the line up down there to appear? I asked him to please go backstage and take a look for me if there were any hot girls due to come onstage, which he did and came back to tell me that he doesn't know what to tell me but nothing spectacular. I did see Elvira a black-haired cute faced girl with a flat muscled stomach, nicely shaped sexy body, whom I had met before. She's possibly a 7. 5, sexy and doable, but nothing spectacular, and nobody I would be excited to go to D'lux nightclub with. Just a sexy girl that was doable if nothing better was on hand, and maybe not worth the $300. But she was the best that I saw in the downstairs bar, and there were too many girls I didn't even want to see dancing, let alone take home, and then I remembered that when I spoke to her when I met her last year, she was not so enthusiastic about oral sex and DATY, so I told her maybe I would come back downstairs for her, but that I was going to go upstairs then for a while. So after two cappuccinos, I became nervous that I'm wasting time down there, so Dima and I agreed that it would probably be better for me to go upstairs. First I sat in the VIP room, but there were only a few hot girls and more than I ever saw in VIP of average girls. I realized that something was seriously amiss this time at Rio, compared to the previous times I had been there, even the fast weekend of February 17. 18, not too long before. I didn't even stay in VIP long enough to finish my Perrier, and after seeing 5 or 6 sets of girls come out onstage who were not hottie material, I picked myself up and went over to Slava to ask what was going on with the line up and were they having staffing problems? Anyway, I moved to sit in the upstairs inner room bar and finally saw a few hotties at least on an 8 level. So I was happy to. Onto he sitting there until I could choose one. I tried with Amira (beautiful blonde who I would have loved to see on the dance floor at D'lux, a graduate of veterinary medicine, but she was inflexible about no DATY, and it was one pussy that ever since she flashed me with it during the private dance, that I really wanted, mmmmm perfect, but since she said no, I passed on her. I also had a dance with a new girl, Daria, petite cute blond, but nothing spectacular there either. The one spectacular girl I did see was Leela who I have had the hots for a long time, but she was with a local customer and never freed up. Then I saw the very pretty blond Anita on stage and remembered I had told her many times I would take her but it never happened. Well last night it did happen and she was an 8 and turned out to be a perfect GFE and everything I wanted was on the menu. I heard from Slava that the beautiful Lera was in VIP but by time I asked for her to be brought to me she was gone from the club. I asked about Laima a very sexy girl I had met in past but she was at Paradise that night. So I took Anita and was happy I did.

Friday night I picked up Katya from the club as we had made up previously so I didn't stay or check up on line up.

Based on Saturday night's line up, I wouldn't yet conclude anything drastic, but I am mindful of recent reports by others that reported not enough hotties. So I will take a look again on a different night and see what happens.

We're you unlucky? Maybe, because there we're times in past when the line up was chock full of hotties. I told Pasha that they have seriously work on the staffing. I guess we'll have to monitor things and see.

I didn't see the pretty Tanya this time yet. There was a post I did at the end of last year sometime between my trips September to November where I listed by name all the hot girls I had seen there worth looking at. Since things obviously change there over time, you need to see who is there at the actual time of your visit.

Ronaldinjo
04-02-12, 03:55
It seems there is an ebb and flow to the line up at a place like Rio, and sometimes the line up I have seen contains quite a few hotties to choose from. And then other times I have been there, it is less filled with hotties. For example, last nite after I went to Arena City Beer Hall to meet up with Hunter Dave, a very charming fellow as to whom it is easy to see why he is so inundated with hot pussy (if you've read his posts about his exploits, you'll know what I mean) , I went on to Rio at about midnite...Once more I would like to thank you for your informative reports. Yes, the picture you are describing is quit similar to that I have encountered 2 months ago, too many undoable girls. Don't know whats the reason (exams? Frequent stuff changes? Something else?) it seems that rios management encounters seriouse problems with gathering of hot gerls. It is interesting what was Pahsas reaction to your opinion. Lets hope that it can change for a better side soon. Yes Lj, I have read all your stuff about Rio girls, including your famous big list. Just curious how many real hotties left there from that lineup. Which is more sexy and beautiful in you opinion, Anita, Lera or Katya? You recomendations are apprexiated. Lets hope you bring up better news from Rio and its linup in upcoming days. Happy morgening Joey.

CityHunter77
04-02-12, 17:25
It seems there is an ebb and flow to the line up at a place like Rio, and sometimes the line up I have seen contains quite a few hotties to choose from. And then other times I have been there, it is less filled with hotties. For example, last nite after I went to Arena City Beer Hall to meet up with Hunter Dave, a very charming fellow as to whom it is easy to see why he is so inundated with hot pussy (if you've read his posts about his exploits, you'll know what I mean) , I went on to Rio at about midnite with the intention to take out a hottie, and if I could find one that would stay on until the next day, perhaps violate my own hard-learned rule (about sex first and then take girls out for other things) and take her over to D'lux to meet up with Hunter Dave and the girl he was meeting with. Well, I got to Rio and first went to the downstairs bar where Dima was managing things. I sat there for a good while becoming increasingly impatient with seeing average looking girls come on stage one after the other. I called Dima over to ask him what the Hell was going on and am I wasting my time waiting for the rest of the line up down there to appear? I asked him to please go backstage and take a look for me if there were any hot girls due to come onstage, which he did and came back to tell me that he doesn't know what to tell me but nothing spectacular. I did see Elvira a black-haired cute faced girl with a flat muscled stomach, nicely shaped sexy body, whom I had met before. She's possibly a 7. 5, sexy and doable, but nothing spectacular, and nobody I would be excited to go to D'lux nightclub with. Just a sexy girl that was doable if nothing better was on hand, and maybe not worth the $300. But she was the best that I saw in the downstairs bar, and there were too many girls I didn't even want to see dancing, let alone take home, and then I remembered that when I spoke to her when I met her last year, she was not so enthusiastic about oral sex and DATY, so I told her maybe I would come back downstairs for her, but that I was going to go upstairs then for a while. So after two cappuccinos, I became nervous that I'm wasting time down there, so Dima and I agreed that it would probably be better for me to go upstairs. First I sat in the VIP room, but there were only a few hot girls and more than I ever saw in VIP of average girls. I realized that something was seriously amiss this time at Rio, compared to the previous times I had been there, even the fast weekend of February 17. 18, not too long before. I didn't even stay in VIP long enough to finish my Perrier, and after seeing 5 or 6 sets of girls come out onstage who were not hottie material, I picked myself up and went over to Slava to ask what was going on with the line up and were they having staffing problems? Anyway, I moved to sit in the upstairs inner room bar and finally saw a few hotties at least on an 8 level. So I was happy to. Onto he sitting there until I could choose one. I tried with Amira (beautiful blonde who I would have loved to see on the dance floor at D'lux, a graduate of veterinary medicine, but she was inflexible about no DATY, and it was one pussy that ever since she flashed me with it during the private dance, that I really wanted, mmmmm perfect, but since she said no, I passed on her. I also had a dance with a new girl, Daria, petite cute blond, but nothing spectacular there either. The one spectacular girl I did see was Leela who I have had the hots for a long time, but she was with a local customer and never freed up. Then I saw the very pretty blond Anita on stage and remembered I had told her many times I would take her but it never happened. Well last night it did happen and she was an 8 and turned out to be a perfect GFE and everything I wanted was on the menu. I heard from Slava that the beautiful Lera was in VIP but by time I asked for her to be brought to me she was gone from the club. I asked about Laima a very sexy girl I had met in past but she was at Paradise that night. So I took Anita and was happy I did.

Friday night I picked up Katya from the club as we had made up previously so I didn't stay or check up on line up.

Based on Saturday night's line up, I wouldn't yet conclude anything drastic, but I am mindful of recent reports by others that reported not enough hotties. So I will take a look again on a different night and see what happens.

We're you unlucky? Maybe, because there we're times in past when the line up was chock full of hotties. I told Pasha that they have seriously work on the staffing. I guess we'll have to monitor things and see.

I didn't see the pretty Tanya this time yet. There was a post I did at the end of last year sometime between my trips September to November where I listed by name all the hot girls I had seen there worth looking at. Since things obviously change there over time, you need to see who is there at the actual time of your visit.LJ.

Did you have a chance to check out Dolls?

http://dolls-club.com/index.php/home

TheKnight
04-02-12, 22:06
You're totally correct. I don't offer advice, but my usual M. O. Is to fuck a wonderfully dirty girl I rate about a 6.5 when I land. It takes the edge off, so when I visit Shooters, Sorry Babushka, D*Lux or Rio I am not as desperate and there's slightly more chance of my head ruling my Dick.

I also have local GFs but still I like variety!

It is hard to turn down a great fuck for 500 or 600uah knowing you have no emotional attachment, can kick them out and go out for a good time straight after.


Barba's silence was short.

Maybe you are right Cruiser. I threw out my TV a long time ago so I can not remember. Thank you for the advice on the profile. After spending some more hours on these sites, it seems that it is not rocket science to weed out the agencies from the real girls. Once really busty (semi fake) blond has sent me a bunch of sexy pictures, while giggling on the cam. Huge tits and a pussy that will suck me in when I dive down to lick her. I am sure she is a first class hoe despite what she writes me, but she is there and for real.

I have attention from some girls that I do not really consider targets in normal cases, even if they are in their lower twenties. Fuckable after 4 gin and tonics, but maybe not in punani heaven. They seem to be normal girls but naturally short of money. My dick says "keep them on the radar as fall back" while my brain says "Barba you know that once you are there you will have much more interesting things to do than the mercy fucks". These girls are often good and grateful in bed, if one can see beyond the fact that they are 5-6 on a scale to 10. And sometimes they have pretty friends, at least in other parts of the world. How do you guys (with some game) go about it? Sort out the semi fuglies directly or consider them a required fall back for days when Ukraine just can not entertain you properly?

I used the help of SpanishMain in Marbella, and a guide saves time. I am always low on time so anyone that wants to guide me to some good apartments and some good clubs (apart from the obvious ones) , are welcome to PM me. Let me know the guide fee so we avoid surprises. Washed out hard core hookers are less interesting than my right hand. I never go above 21-22 in the Philippines and 18-19 is the normality, so there should preferably be a documented history of at least a couple of girls somewhere in the lower twenties if we visit some fine Ukrainian drinking establishment. Who knows, it might even be fun.

B.

TheKnight
04-02-12, 23:12
LJ.

Did you have a chance to check out Dolls?

http://dolls-club.com/index.php/homeYep, we need someone to make the first ISG visit and report back.

Website is shite, but at least it gives address, and Respublinkansky Metro (now Olimpiyskiy) is just a minute away.

Club is one block further down the road, and opposite side to Penthaus Club, which is worth a visit solely for Krystyna IMO.

So come on LJ, CD, UkeB et al. Can you take out from Dolls (if so cost?). Is stage show fully nude? ENtrance / drinks costs, number of girls.

My experience tells me not to be too excited. They may in time get the best lookers like in Rhino, but the way website emphasises fully nude private dances available, makes it seem unlikely there's pussy on stage, and for some reason the feeling seems to be in Kyiv that upscale means no take-out. If they do offer takeaway option I am pretty sure they'll be trying to charge $400 minimum. Would not surprise me if Rio heads that way before Euro too. For me it would mean the end to visiting the place. Too much quality available elsewhere.

So, with over 2 weeks til my next visit, I hope I am not the first to report from Dolls!

Ronaldinjo
04-03-12, 12:11
Once more I would like to thank you for your informative reports. Yes, the picture you are describing is quit similar to that I have encountered 2 months ago, too many undoable girls. Don't know whats the reason (exams? Frequent stuff changes? Something else?) it seems that rios management encounters seriouse problems with gathering of hot gerls. It is interesting what was Pahsas reaction to your opinion. Lets hope that it can change for a better side soon. Yes Lj, I have read all your stuff about Rio girls, including your famous big list. Just curious how many real hotties left there from that lineup. Which is more sexy and beautiful in you opinion, Anita, Lera or Katya? You recomendations are apprexiated. Lets hope you bring up better news from Rio and its linup in upcoming days.

Happy morgening Joey.

GreyGoose69
04-07-12, 01:05
I'll go back to Ukraine in May, can someone compare the nightlife between Kiev and Odessa? D-Lux and Ibiza (Odessa) nightclub on a Saturday night?

I may go back to Rio and Buddha bar in city center looking for 9s or 10s but this time I'd like to meet locals girls just to go out and have fun. I'm young and not bad looking. Is mamba. Are you my best option to meet Ukrainian girls?

Where can I find university parties?

Muddy7
04-07-12, 08:00
Went to Rio on Thursday around 21:30.

Sat upstairs next to the bar, the line up was not good at all, big waste of time.

I saw all the girls one time, around 23:00 gave the manager (older guy I think his name is Vlad) 100 grivna and sat in the VIP, the line up was better, there was a girl named Leah I wanted to to take home but she didn't speak English, had 2 private dances both girls (bianca, forgot the other girls name) said they would go home with me but when it came to making the final decision I just didn't think they were good enough, I saw the lineup one time and then went left the club

AZN Monger
04-08-12, 01:54
I was in Rio during mid-week. First time being here and naturally chose to go upstairs. Only one other gentleman there and in front of us were two poles with girls being rotated in and out of it. Some stunners, some inbetween and some mediocre ones. One girl, cute, but not a stunner caught my attention when she was eyeing me all over. I love pink nippes and she had one of the pinkest ones I've seen so I invited her to talk. Her English was good so up we go for two private dances. In there, I found out her name was Arina and she is relatively new there. Got her to have a few make-out sessions and she offered take-out with me. Unfortunately, I was exhausted and short on time and rainchecked on her. Is behavior like this in private dance rooms typical? Kissing and all?

UrbanCowboy22
04-08-12, 04:38
It all depends on the girl. If she was attracted to you, then of course but maybe she just kisses everyone. I wouldn't call it typical behavior. A few girls allow you to rub their pussy during a private dance but most won't. If the girl wants you to take them out, usually they touch you. Supposedly the rooms have cameras. Wish there were a few other places like Rio. Used to be a place called Mandarin that was on the river near River Palace. That was fun! Ah, the good ole days in Kiev!


I was in Rio during mid-week. First time being here and naturally chose to go upstairs. Only one other gentleman there and in front of us were two poles with girls being rotated in and out of it. Some stunners, some inbetween and some mediocre ones. One girl, cute, but not a stunner caught my attention when she was eyeing me all over. I love pink nippes and she had one of the pinkest ones I've seen so I invited her to talk. Her English was good so up we go for two private dances. In there, I found out her name was Arina and she is relatively new there. Got her to have a few make-out sessions and she offered take-out with me. Unfortunately, I was exhausted and short on time and rainchecked on her. Is behavior like this in private dance rooms typical? Kissing and all?

Muddy7
04-08-12, 09:59
Where have you gone our friend? What about your elaborate and perfect reports from Kiev journey? We are waiting to you Lj.Vlade at Rio kidnapped him, thats what happens when you go to Rio so much, you become a marked man, mafia will cut his ears and take his money

Ronaldinjo
04-08-12, 16:27
Vlade at Rio kidnapped him, thats what happens when you go to Rio so much, you become a marked man, mafia will cut his ears and take his moneyIt is not funny. Is our buddy ok?

Muddy7
04-08-12, 19:53
I was in Rio during mid-week. First time being here and naturally chose to go upstairs. Only one other gentleman there and in front of us were two poles with girls being rotated in and out of it. Some stunners, some inbetween and some mediocre ones. One girl, cute, but not a stunner caught my attention when she was eyeing me all over. I love pink nippes and she had one of the pinkest ones I've seen so I invited her to talk. Her English was good so up we go for two private dances. In there, I found out her name was Arina and she is relatively new there. Got her to have a few make-out sessions and she offered take-out with me. Unfortunately, I was exhausted and short on time and rainchecked on her. Is behavior like this in private dance rooms typical? Kissing and all?Some of these girls are prof hookers / dancers who have traveled to a lot of cities in Europe like Bianka, some of them are from smaller cities and don't undertsnad the risks and probably stick their tongues into every mans mouth they do private dance for so you better hope you don't you don't get sick. Better wash you mouth well, LOL

LilJoey
04-08-12, 21:08
Where have you gone our friend? What about your elaborate and perfect reports from Kiev journey? We are waiting to you Lj.
Vlade at Rio kidnapped him, thats what happens when you go to Rio so much, you become a marked man, mafia will cut his ears and take his money
Once more I would like to thank you for your informative reports. Yes, the picture you are describing is quit similar to that I have encountered 2 months ago, too many undoable girls. Don't know whats the reason (exams? Frequent stuff changes? Something else?) it seems that rios management encounters seriouse problems with gathering of hot gerls. It is interesting what was Pahsas reaction to your opinion. Lets hope that it can change for a better side soon. Yes Lj, I have read all your stuff about Rio girls, including your famous big list. Just curious how many real hotties left there from that lineup. Which is more sexy and beautiful in you opinion, Anita, Lera or Katya? You recomendations are apprexiated. Lets hope you bring up better news from Rio and its linup in upcoming days.

Happy morgening Joey.Just kidding. These continuing posts by the veteran members about Tashkent have truly enhanced the Kiev thread.

But seriously, I have not forgotten your questions and will answer in due course. But here are a few tidbits that might be of value to those intending to visit Kiev soon.

(1) Mandarin Reopening: According to Slava, the genial manager of the VIP room at Rio, the sister club of Rio, that was called Mandarin and was located on the river not far from the RP, and used to have a nice floor show with singers and dancers, will be reopened by the end of April. I hope it is true. It was a great club with lots of hotties. Prices were similar to prices at Rio.

(2) Dolls. (57 Chervonoarmiis'ka) the new strip club that opened recently is a large space with very nice decor and about 15. 20 girls at the time of my visit, with some who were quite pretty. They have a "Krazy Menu" with all the prices and various sexy activities listed. I asked the manager for a photocopy of it, and will scan and post it when I can get to a scanner, but the main prices of interest are: private dances. 400 UAH ($50 USD) ; 2 hours of time "exempting a girl from her obligations at the club" (I. E. You can take her out of the club. $300 USD; all night "exempting girl from club". $500 USD. So the prices are higher than Rio.

Dolls vs Rio: Private dances at Rio cost half as much and give much more action. The girl at Dolls that I took to a private dance had the notion that part of it should be her dancing in front of a mirror a few feet in front of me, and I had to motion her to get her ass over to where it was needed. She wasn't a take out girl, though. Another girl who was a "take out" girl gave a much hotter dance. But at these prices most guys would forgo private dances at Dolls. The take out date at Dolls is $300, like at Rio, but it is only for 2 hours, so the net rate is $150 / hour versus $100 / hour at Rio. The Dolls all night date for $500 is the only thing of slight interest, since the club shows the potential of bringing in some very high level talent, but it's only of interest to guys who would spend that much for a full night with a very beautiful girl. Whether Dolls can compete with Rio? It depends on whether either can present a line up worthy of the prices they are asking. The Dolls 2 hour date for $300 (a net rate of $150 / hr) exceeds the rate I have considered ok for Kiev up until now. Since Rio provides a sufficient supply of girls on an 8 or 8. 5 level, there is no reason to pay more at Dolls for the same. The only reason I could begin to consider taking girls from Dolls at higher prices would be for girls on a very high level, like truly above a 9 in looks and service, and then I would lean toward the all night date, to amortize the cost and reach a lower per hour net cost.

And if Mandarin opens at the end of April, their will be more competition than just Rio and Dolls.

Although in recent visits to Rio, it seems that there were not the same greater numbers of girls in the 8 and above category, as there had been during previous trips, nevertheless there were sufficient girls on that level for me to find what I needed and have a great time with them. You only need one, as the saying goes. But to find the "one", you clearly couldn't just sit on your ass and wait for her to be delivered. If the line up wasn't good in the downstairs bar, I asked to move to the VIP, and if that didn't bear fruit, I moved to the upstairs bar. I hoped that I hadn't been too impatient and moved to soon from one bar to another. In the end I saw what I liked, called her over to sit down with me and took my selection home. There was clearly a smaller pool of hotties to choose from, but there was still a sufficient amount to have a good time. But with Mandarin club due to open at the end of April, and Dolls club vying with Rio for customers, the deciding factor will be where the hottest girls will end up being recruited in adequate numbers.

www.mamba.ru. My efforts to find lower cost hotties on mamba this trip culminated in a meeting with Eva, a pretty, thin and pleasant looking girl, perhaps a 6. 5, or a 7. When I met up with Hunter Dave, I showed him the profile, and he said he thought he remembered her and that she was cute. She is a semi pro girl with another career, well put together and good in bed. She was a nice experience, but not the stuff of dreams. Her link is:

http://mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=741034551&hit=3

I have yet to secure a girl on an 8 level or above from a website like mamba.

LJ

Ronaldinjo
04-09-12, 00:43
Just kidding. These continuing posts by the veteran members about Tashkent have truly enhanced the Kiev thread.

But seriously, I have not forgotten your questions and will answer in due course. But here are a few tidbits that might be of value to those intending to visit Kiev soon.

(1) Mandarin Reopening: According to Slava, the genial manager of the VIP room at Rio, the sister club of Rio, that was called Mandarin and was located on the river not far from the RP, and used to have a nice floor show with singers and dancers, will be reopened by the end of April. I hope it is true. It was a great club with lots of hotties. Prices were similar to prices at Rio.

(2) Dolls. (57 Chervonoarmiis'ka) the new strip club that opened recently is a large space with very nice decor and about 15. 20 girls at the time of my visit, with some who were quite pretty. They have a "Krazy Menu" with all the prices and various sexy activities listed. I asked the manager for a photocopy of it, and will scan and post it when I can get to a scanner, but the main prices of interest are: private dances. 400 UAH ($50 USD) ; 2 hours of time "exempting a girl from her obligations at the club" (I. E. You can take her out of the club. $300 USD; all night "exempting girl from club". $500 USD. So the prices are higher than Rio.

Dolls vs Rio: Private dances at Rio cost half as much and give much more action. The girl at Dolls that I took to a private dance had the notion that part of it should be her dancing in front of a mirror a few feet in front of me, and I had to motion her to get her ass over to where it was needed. She wasn't a take out girl, though. Another girl who was a "take out" girl gave a much hotter dance. But at these prices most guys would forgo private dances at Dolls. The take out date at Dolls is $300, like at Rio, but it is only for 2 hours, so the net rate is $150 / hour versus $100 / hour at Rio. The Dolls all night date for $500 is the only thing of slight interest, since the club shows the potential of bringing in some very high level talent, but it's only of interest to guys who would spend that much for a full night with a very beautiful girl. Whether Dolls can compete with Rio? It depends on whether either can present a line up worthy of the prices they are asking. The Dolls 2 hour date for $300 (a net rate of $150 / hr) exceeds the rate I have considered ok for Kiev up until now. Since Rio provides a sufficient supply of girls on an 8 or 8. 5 level, there is no reason to pay more at Dolls for the same. The only reason I could begin to consider taking girls from Dolls at higher prices would be for girls on a very high level, like truly above a 9 in looks and service, and then I would lean toward the all night date, to amortize the cost and reach a lower per hour net cost.

And if Mandarin opens at the end of April, their will be more competition than just Rio and Dolls.

Although in recent visits to Rio, it seems that there were not the same greater numbers of girls in the 8 and above category, as there had been during previous trips, nevertheless there were sufficient girls on that level for me to find what I needed and have a great time with them. You only need one, as the saying goes. But to find the "one", you clearly couldn't just sit on your ass and wait for her to be delivered. If the line up wasn't good in the downstairs bar, I asked to move to the VIP, and if that didn't bear fruit, I moved to the upstairs bar. I hoped that I hadn't been too impatient and moved to soon from one bar to another. In the end I saw what I liked, called her over to sit down with me and took my selection home. There was clearly a smaller pool of hotties to choose from, but there was still a sufficient amount to have a good time. But with Mandarin club due to open at the end of April, and Dolls club vying with Rio for customers, the deciding factor will be where the hottest girls will end up being recruited in adequate numbers.

www.mamba.ru

My efforts to find lower cost hotties on mamba this trip culminated in a meeting with Eva, a pretty, thin and pleasant looking girl, perhaps a 6. 5, or a 7. When I met up with Hunter Dave, I showed him the profile, and he said he thought he remembered her and that she was cute. She is a semi pro girl with another career, well put together and good in bed. She was a nice experience, but not the stuff of dreams. Her link is:

http://mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=741034551&hit=3

I have yet to secure a girl on an 8 level or above from a website like mamba.

LJHappy to see you are back after all strange people writing down strange stuff mostly. In my recent visit to Kiev some Rio girls indeed tald me that Mandarin is going to reopen soon, hope it will be open as soon as possible. Hope you could answer my questions.

1. Do you thing the prices and policy going to be same in Mandarin and in Rio (takeout and entery fee and tips to managers)? What was it like in old times.

2. Did you ask management why the lineup in Rio is poor with hot girls recently compared to your previous visits? Is it exams or something else, what do you think?

3. About dalls club. Did you tip menegers there too? What is the entrance price to the club? 100 gryvnas like Rio? Where can you find prettier girls, there or in Rio? Did you see some takeout possibility girl around 9 in dalls?

4. Have you tried WG in buddha bar or delu?

5. At last, how was you trip? Did you manage to nail new hotties?

With respect, Ronaldinjo

Cruiser D
04-09-12, 02:18
The barge that used to be Mandarin was a disco and a restaurant. It was never a strip club.


(1) Mandarin Reopening: According to Slava, the genial manager of the VIP room at Rio, the sister club of Rio, that was called Mandarin and was located on the river not far from the RP, and used to have a nice floor show with singers and dancers, will be reopened by the end of April. I hope it is true. It was a great club with lots of hotties. Prices were similar to prices at Rio.

LilJoey
04-09-12, 04:11
The barge that used to be Mandarin was a disco and a restaurant. It was never a strip club.Nope, Cruiser D, you err. There was a Mandarin strip club located on the river with a unique floor show of singers and dancers (not available for take out) just as I described, and a full line up of strippers in between the floor shows with girls available for take out. It was a sister club of Rio. I was there during my trips in or about the end of 2009 and into 2010. I took out girls from Mandarin and enjoyed some very good sex with them. You can verify what I say by simply asking Slava or any other of the Rio managers whose number you may have. You may also refer to the references to the Mandarin strip club on this thread over the last year of postings by other posters who remember the Mandarin strip club. Your recollections may be from an earlier period. But during the period immediately leading up to the demise of the River Palace (2009/2010) there was a Mandarin strip club. It's of course, currently an academic question, but if it finally reopened by the end of April, as Slava (a Rio manager) stated to me the weekend of March 31, then you will have the opportunity to enjoy the Mandarin club too.

TheKnight
04-09-12, 10:37
Nope, Cruiser D, you err. There was a Mandarin strip club located on the river with a unique floor show of singers and dancers (not available for take out) just as I described, and a full line up of strippers in between the floor shows with girls available for take out. It was a sister club of Rio. I was there during my trips in or about the end of 2009 and into 2010. I took out girls from Mandarin and enjoyed some very good sex with them. You can verify what I say by simply asking Slava or any other of the Rio managers whose number you may have. You may also refer to the references to the Mandarin strip club on this thread over the last year of postings by other posters who remember the Mandarin strip club. Your recollections may be from an earlier period. But during the period immediately leading up to the demise of the River Palace (2009/2010) there was a Mandarin strip club. It's of course, currently an academic question, but if it finally reopened by the end of April, as Slava (a Rio manager) stated to me the weekend of March 31, then you will have the opportunity to enjoy the Mandarin club too.Yep, LJ is 100% correct.

I too sampled from there. One of my ex GF worked there too after we split, when she progressed from "dancer only" to take out option, which she tried to hide from me.

LilJoey
04-09-12, 11:47
Lj, I have read all your stuff about Rio girls, including your famous big list. Just curious how many real hotties left there from that lineup. Which is more sexy and beautiful in you opinion, Anita, Lera or Katya? You recomendations are apprexiated. Lets hope you bring up better news from Rio and its linup.*

Dear Ronaldinjo,

To answer some of your questions:

I was told that the beautiful Tanya has moved on, regretfully without me ever having been able to tap that.

You asked which do I find more sexy and beautiful. Anita, Lera or Katya. It is a very difficult question. It is like asking which is the better fruit, strawberries or cherries or mango. They are all delicious and great, and each is wonderful in its own way. So too with the girls. Each is beautiful in her own way, and they are all great girls.

Lera and Anita are pretty blondes, while Katya has the most gorgeous long, flowing, lustrous light brown hair and a fresh innocence to her smile that are captivating. Katya's body is very nicely shaped and sexy too. She is a beautiful young princess.

Lera is a cute faced very sexy blond. When I last saw Lera dance, the sheer sexiness of her body and the look of her taught stomach and hips made me squirm with desire, as she gyrated on the dancing pole, although her bottom is not as tight as the best asses I've drooled over, it's very cute and works for her. She has a wholesome prettiness and sexiness which really strike a chord with me, in such a way as I am very excited about the prospect of penetrating into that beautiful body in sexual bliss.

Anita is a pretty blond with a very nice figure. Her prettiness is only enhanced by the innocent sweetness of her personality. Anita was more giving sexually than Lera. But I'm still nut's about Lera despite the fact that she only gives me a covered BJ and has not permitted DATY. Lera's playful personality and fun factor, together with her really sexy prettiness is what I find pleasing. But I thoroughly enjoyed being with Anita also, and she was more GFE.

But it is not so important what I think of each of these pretty young girls. It is more important how they appeal to you, and what chemistry occurs between you and the girl. For some reason, even though Lera does not speak English, we had great chemistry which began when I offered to give her a shoulder massage in the club. I couldn't talk to her, so I let my fingers do the talking, and she got my message and warmed to me, as she could feel through the gentle touch of my fingers the good feelings I felt toward her. By contrast I could make no headway at all with the awesomely beautiful Margarita, who sat glumly at my table in between my efforts to make conversation using my Google translate on my phone, and gave nothing of herself to help make things work.

You asked about the whereabouts of the rest of the Rio *girls on that list I once posted. Unfortunately, I do not know, as I did not spend enough time in the club this trip to take an accounting. *

However, Lila (pronounced Leela) , one of the high level hotties that I had never before been able to get to during prior trips, was destined to become a highlight of this trip. But I will describe the chronological events leading up to the awesome experience with Leela and her friend Vladislava on my last night, in my trip report to be posted soon.

LJ

LilJoey
04-09-12, 16:21
Happy to see you are back after all strange people writing down strange stuff mostly. In my recent visit to Kiev some Rio girls indeed tald me that Mandarin is going to reopen soon, hope it will be open as soon as possible. Hope you could answer my questions.

1. Do you thing the prices and policy going to be same in Mandarin and in Rio (takeout and entery fee and tips to managers)? What was it like in old times.

2. Did you ask management why the lineup in Rio is poor with hot girls recently compared to your previous visits? Is it exams or something else, what do you think?

3. About dalls club. Did you tip menegers there too? What is the entrance price to the club? 100 gryvnas like Rio? Where can you find prettier girls, there or in Rio? Did you see some takeout possibility girl around 9 in dalls?

4. Have you tried WG in buddha bar or delu?

5. At last, how was you trip? Did you manage to nail new hotties?

With respect, Ronaldinjo1. In the past the take out price was the same at Mandarin and Rio. Mandarin didn't have different bars like Rio has downstairs, upstairs and VIP rooms, so I don't remember the tipping of managers being an important issue at Mandarin, as it has become in Rio. To be quite honest, I forget what I did at Mandarin, but probably I did tip since I would have wanted help and info re the girls. Since prices were the same at both clubs in the past, it might be that way in the future too. But we don't know what type of premises the new Mandarin club will be. If they aim to achieve a more upscale type club, prices might reflect that. We'll have to wait and see.

2. I discussed the line up issue with several of the managers, but got no explanations. Obviously, they know their success depends on a good line up, since they cannot ask the high prices they ask unless they have girls that look real good.

3. At Dolls, I think the entrance fee was similar, but don't remember precisely. I tipped the manager who made the photocopy of the Krazy Menu for me. Rio has many more girls than Dolls, which had only around 15 to 20. They both have some pretty girls. Which one has more pretty girls? I would say currently Rio does. But this can change, as Dolls is just beginning to gear up and has the potential of growth. There were some girls at Dolls who I would rate as being above 8's and some guys could consider a few to be 9's. As we all know this is subjective to each guy. If you're asking my view, it is that Dolls had 1 or 2 girls on the night of my visit who were as hot as the top Rio girls. The difference is the prices.

4. Yes I have been to both Buddha Bar and D'lux and have written about my experiences in both venues previously. I didn't go this trip due to lack of time, meaning I was already in bed with someone I wanted. As I wrote previously, I found it difficult and time consuming to identify the WG's at D'lux. The prices the WG's were asking at D'lux were reported by others to be very high. The prices I was asked at Buddha Bar were also much higher than at Rio. This was the reason (higher prices, and more waste of time) that I felt places like D'lux and Buddha Bar were not as good as Rio where prices were lower and getting girls for take out quicker and more efficient. If prices at Buddha Bar and D'lux and other night spots come down, I would reconsider them for mongering purposes, as I had a great time at D'lux where the DJ was pretty good.

5. Yes I enjoyed my trip. But not only because of new hotties. In fact, this trip was spent with having all nighters with some of my favorites, and a new girl (Lila) who quickly became a new favorite and who I saw a second time together with her friend, Vladislava (a Cover Girl beauty and sexual Amazon) , for an awesome duo on my last night. Both these two latter girls are 9's if not higher. Wow! My head is still spinning.

LJ

Ronaldinjo
04-10-12, 04:23
1. In the past the take out price was the same at Mandarin and Rio. Mandarin didn't have different bars like Rio has downstairs, upstairs and VIP rooms, so I don't remember the tipping of managers being an important issue at Mandarin, as it has become in Rio. To be quite honest, I forget what I did at Mandarin, but probably I did tip since I would have wanted help and info re the girls. Since prices were the same at both clubs in the past, it might be that way in the future too. But we don't know what type of premises the new Mandarin club will be. If they aim to achieve a more upscale type club, prices might reflect that. We'll have to wait and see.

2. I discussed the line up issue with several of the managers, but got no explanations. Obviously, they know their success depends on a good line up, since they cannot ask the high prices they ask unless they have girls that look real good.

3. At Dolls, I think the entrance fee was similar, but don't remember precisely. I tipped the manager who made the photocopy of the Krazy Menu for me. Rio has many more girls than Dolls, which had only around 15 to 20. They both have some pretty girls. Which one has more pretty girls? I would say currently Rio does. But this can change, as Dolls is just beginning to gear up and has the potential of growth. There were some girls at Dolls who I would rate as being above 8's and some guys could consider a few to be 9's. As we all know this is subjective to each guy. If you're asking my view, it is that Dolls had 1 or 2 girls on the night of my visit who were as hot as the top Rio girls. The difference is the prices.

4. Yes I have been to both Buddha Bar and D'lux and have written about my experiences in both venues previously. I didn't go this trip due to lack of time, meaning I was already in bed with someone I wanted. As I wrote previously, I found it difficult and time consuming to identify the WG's at D'lux. The prices the WG's were asking at D'lux were reported by others to be very high. The prices I was asked at Buddha Bar were also much higher than at Rio. This was the reason (higher prices, and more waste of time) that I felt places like D'lux and Buddha Bar were not as good as Rio where prices were lower and getting girls for take out quicker and more efficient. If prices at Buddha Bar and D'lux and other night spots come down, I would reconsider them for mongering purposes, as I had a great time at D'lux where the DJ was pretty good.

5. Yes I enjoyed my trip. But not only because of new hotties. In fact, this trip was spent with having all nighters with some of my favorites, and a new girl (Lila) who quickly became a new favorite and who I saw a second time together with her friend, Vladislava (a Cover Girl beauty and sexual Amazon) , for an awesome duo on my last night. Both these two latter girls are 9's if not higher. Wow! My head is still spinning.

LJThanks Joey for elaborative answers that are very helpfull. Thank you once more.

As I see dools and Rio are the best clubs in Kiev write now for takeout possibilities, at least from those we know. As I understood you didn't take out none from dolls.

Pity that it didn't go well with Margarita and you, I think I saw her in my last trip in Rio dancing and then sitting with one man, I only guess, she is black haired, she was beautiful, but in my opinion too big, and I prefere more pettite types. But maybe there was some one else, as I didn't bother to ask her name any of the managers then.

Who from girls that left in Rio now is most beautiful in your opinion? Margarita? Leela? Katya? Or someone else?

I'm very quirious to read your chronologic report from your trip, especially about Leela and Vladislava. Is Vladislava new one there, how does she look?

Cruiser D
04-10-12, 04:44
Really not that important. Have fun at the stripclubs.


I took out girls from Mandarin and enjoyed some very good sex with them. You can verify what I say by simply asking Slava or any other of the Rio managers whose number you may have.

Cruiser D
04-10-12, 04:52
You guys are insane.

Going to Rio every night for a girl is like going to McD every night to eat.


As I see dools and Rio are the best clubs in Kiev write now for takeout possibilities, at least from those we know. As I understood you didn't take out none from dolls.

LilJoey
04-10-12, 05:39
You guys are insane.

Going to Rio every night for a girl is like going to McD every night to eat.While having sex with very beautiful girls three or four nights in a row during a Kiev visit, is admittedly repetitive, I don't think most guys would feel it's monotonous. I don't think McD is the right level of comparison. The more accurate comparison would be to eating in upscale very good restaurants for a few days in a row during a vacation.

Where I agree with you is that it becomes expensive entertainment. And if the same level can be found in a less expensive way, I will of course go that less expensive way. I am trying to hit gold on Mamba on each trip, but I'm sad to say that I have not been successful in getting girls off mamba. Ru that looked as good as the girls from the strip clubs. The best I've gotten off the websites is a 6 or a 7 level girl that is less good looking than the top hotties I've taken out of Rio. Now I know that other guys have posted they have gotten very pretty girls off mamba. Ru, and I've seen some of Hunter Dave's photos of such girls, so it is frustrating. So I will keep trying to get some top level girls off mamba each trip, because no one wants to needlessly pay more money than necessary. Once I hit gold the less expensive way, of course, I will tone back the strip club expenditures. But I really would be disappointed in a Kiev trip in which I only shagged some 6's or 7's off of mamba. Ru. So for the time being, I must pursue a dual approach of mamba during the day, and Rio or Mandarin during the night, or some other venues where getting a girl is more or less certain (like Buddha Bar or Dolls) if the prices can be negotiated down a little.

LJ

LilJoey
04-10-12, 07:39
Thanks Joey for elaborative answers that are very helpfull. Thank you once more.

As I see dools and Rio are the best clubs in Kiev write now for takeout possibilities, at least from those we know. As I understood you didn't take out none from dolls.

Pity that it didn't go well with Margarita and you, I think I saw her in my last trip in Rio dancing and then sitting with one man, I only guess, she is black haired, she was beautiful, but in my opinion too big, and I prefere more pettite types. But maybe there was some one else, as I didn't bother to ask her name any of the managers then.

Who from girls that left in Rio now is most beautiful in your opinion? Margarita? Leela? Katya? Or someone else?

I'm very quirious to read your chronologic report from your trip, especially about Leela and Vladislava. Is Vladislava new one there, how does she look?Margarita is tall and beautiful like a model should be. I didn't see her at club this trip. Also if you like petite, there are a number of petite girls who are pretty. Like I said before, since there are many new girls, and since the line up is obviously changing, and since any trip you will make is in the future, it seems any statement about who is the best looking in the club will shortly be made obsolete by such changes, and is therefore pointless.

This trip I did not have the time to spend in the club to see and become acquainted with all of the line up. There were a good number of girls that I saw who looked hot but I didn't get the name of because I was already with someone.

This weekend (March 30 to April 3) I took out Katya, Anita, Sophia, Leela and Vladislava. I didn't see Ada or Lera but know they were working from conversation with managers. I also saw Bella, Rita, Laima, Amira, Elvira, Elsa, Lika, Mia, Gloria. All these girls are pretty and nice.

This weekend I did not see Darina, Margo, Yanna, Dasha, Leyla, Maya, Renata, Tori, Marta, Siliana, Anastacia, Snezhana, Tina, or Lea.

I was told that Tamara has moved on. I spoke to Darina on the phone before I arrived and she was supposed to be around, but I don't know what happened to her. Darina is very hot, but pricey (she asks $500 for three hours) so the only way to balance that out is to negotiate for more time earlier in the evening when she will not conk out from exhaustion. Anyway she wasn't there when I was in the club this time.

I recited this above list because it seems you wanted it, asking several times, but I don't think this list is of any value, because the line up is changing as we speak, with many new girls added and to be added. So truly what you must do as a monger when you get into town is to visit the club, make notes on the line up existing when you visit, and make plans for what you want to do and proceed from there.

LJ

Dan7373
04-10-12, 11:29
. I am trying to hit gold on Mamba on each trip, but I'm sad to say that I have not been successful in getting girls off mamba. Ru that looked as good as the girls from the strip clubs. The best I've gotten off the websites is a 6 or a 7 level girl that is less good looking than the top hotties I've taken out of Rio. Now I know that other guys have posted they have gotten very pretty girls off mamba. Ru, and I've seen some of Hunter Dave's photos of such girls, so it is frustrating. So I will keep trying to get some top level girls off mamba each trip, because no one wants to needlessly pay more money than necessary. Once I hit gold the less expensive way, of course, I will tone back the strip club expenditures. But I really would be disappointed in a Kiev trip in which I only shagged some 6's or 7's off of mamba. Ru. So for the time being, I must pursue a dual approach of mamba during the day, and Rio or Mandarin during the night, or some other venues where getting a girl is more or less certain (like Buddha Bar or Dolls) if the prices can be negotiated down a little.

LJWhat I don't understand about the women on Mamba website is how they say that they are willing to have sex once or twice right away. But then they specify the age of the guy they want to meet, as if it's for romance and for a long-term relationship.

I've found some women I like on Mamaba. But my age sometimes doesn't fit what they want.

This whole thing is confusing for me. Because if the lady is doing it for money in a very short-term relationship, then why does she care about the guy's age? In other countries and in other places, women who do it for money usually don't care about the guy's age. Many women actually prefer older guys, because they are often able to pay more. But Mamaba ladies often specify an upper limit on age. It looks like they don't want older guys.

Perhaps this is just a quirk of the website and not of the ladies. When the ladies register, they probably have to specify the age group of guys they are looking for. And these women choose some age group because they have to and not because they have something against older guys. But this is just my guess, which I haven't been able to test.

LilJoey
04-10-12, 18:49
Yes, lineup is constantly changing, but most of the girls are the same. I remember Lika it seems, she was pettite brunnette as much as I remember with pretty face, considered once to take her out but she was too pettite even for me LOL. How was Vladislava? Is she one of the top blondes there in your opinion?Vladislava has jet black medium length hair and a very pretty face with the bluest, most amazing eyes, the kind of face that i could look at all day long and never get tired of seeing. Her breasts are enhanced, but to very sexy effect. She is slender and not wide--hipped like I usually prefer. But her tiny ass is so nicely shaped, it just called to me to enter her from behind when she was eating out Leela who was giving an operatic concert at the time. Vladislava has great presence and carries herself well. She is a conscientious pleaser, and an unabashed screamer. In my book, she is very hot stuff -- dynamite, in fact. And together with Leela, a true Slavic beauty with a smoking hot beautiful sexy shape, the two of these bisexual felines, will take your breath away. They are good friends and like each other and work well together. Lucky, lucky is the guy who finds himself in a sandwich with these two sex stars, entangled in a fucking, licking, screaming extravaganza. If you dare, just make sure you can outlast them, so you can score a couple of orgasms for each of them before you come. You won't regret the show that such an effort will produce.

There. You pulled it out of me, Ronaldinjo. In advance of my report. Are you happy now?

In retrospect the beautiful hours spent with Katya on Friday night (she finally allowed me normal DATY) when I first came to town, and Anita on Saturday night, Sophia on Sunday, all three very beautiful, sexy girls, whose appearance i have adequately described in my recent post in response to your questions, was just a prelude to Monday night's introduction to the sexual delights of Leela, and Tuesday night's awesome duo with Leela and her friend Vladislava.

At this point, the Leela and Vladislava duo adventure, is up there with my ATF experiences ranking together with the other dynamic duo in my Kiev sex life, the very cute and sexy Ada, together with the truly beautiful princess, Rosa (who has since retired) about which I have previously reported.

Of additional note was a freebie date on Tuesday afternoon with former Asia of Rio who retired last year, and who is now too involved with a boyfriend for me to get anywhere with her short term. But she still wants contact with me, so I will let it play out and see. She has got the best body and ass I've seen on any Rio dancer. I squirm with desire when I see how good her ass looks in jeans. It's true torture that I can't just have her.

Lastly there was the mamba girl I selected to meet with on Monday afternoon, Eva, about whom I've posted above.

Now my sights are set on FKK-land and my upcoming visit to Vienna Goldentime on April 18 to spend some quality time with Joanna, an amazing, perfect bodied Cover Girl type whose story I posted about previously. I will then head to Berlin for the night and possibly hit Artemis, and then i will be in Frankfurt's FKK Oase and Palace for weekend of April 20 -- 22, and lastly an overnight in London on April 22.

But I won't stop thinking about the great Kiev girls I enjoyed at the beginning of April for a very long time.

Happy Mongering

LJ

Dave Carrera
04-10-12, 21:29
Do you need to wait until after midnight for the talent to arrive?

Thanks again for all of you who have helped me plan this trip for my friend.

Dave

Cruiser D
04-10-12, 21:44
I have sex with 2 to 5 beautiful girls every day I am in Kiev. Sadly usually not at the same time. I'm not saying that in itself is repetitive. I'm talking about going to Rio non stop. Like I mentioned before, even was I was going to Rio a lot in 2006-2007 ($200) it was on a wall balanced diet of serial dating, night club semi pros and RP pros.

It's Kyiv! There are hot girls all over the place and all you guys talk about is Rio, Rio, Rio, a small strip club with mostly average girls!

Considering the talent of Kyiv as a whole comparing Rio to McD is accurate but I'd be willing to push it to TGI Fridays.


While having sex with very beautiful girls three or four nights in a row during a Kiev visit, is admittedly repetitive, I don't think most guys would feel it's monotonous. I don't think McD is the right level of comparison. The more accurate comparison would be to eating in upscale very good restaurants for a few days in a row during a vacation.

LilJoey
04-10-12, 22:26
Do you need to wait until after midnight for the talent to arrive?

Thanks again for all of you who have helped me plan this trip for my friend.

DaveDave, this has been posted many times before. You're not reading the thread adequately. The club opens at 8pm and closes at 5am. Take out dates are 3hrs minimum and many girls want to return to the club before 5am closing, so waiting to take a girl out until after 2am could result in her saying she can only stay with you until shortly before 5am and you don't get the full three hours, or she could say it's late and not enough time to go out and to come back the next night. Some girls will agree to stay with you after 5am, but many have university and other things during the day and they must get some sleep in the morning. Also you must bear in mind that finding a girl for take out who is the best looking and most likely to give you GFE service requires a process which I have adequately described in prior posts that will take time, and then the girl has to agree to accept your invitation, and if she doesn't then it's back to the drawing board.

Therefore, in light of the foregoing factors, you need to be in a position to take the girl out sometime prior to 2am. In order to view the line ups in as many of the three different bars that you wish to, have conversation with and maybe private dances with the girls you wish to, and narrow down your choices to a girl who there is chemistry with who accepts your invitation, you need to allow sufficient time at the club. Your first forays at the club will be occupied with learning what's available in the line ups, since of late there has been continuing change seen. It's best to give yourself more time, rather than less time. Also, if you want to take advantage of the lower per hour cost of an all night date, the earlier you take a girl out the more hours you get together with her until shortly before 5am.

So all things considered, if your intention for that evening is to take out a very hot girl from Rio, you should get to the club between 8pm opening time and 9:30 or at latest 10pm. Even an earlier 3 hour date is better from the point of view of being in better condition for sex and not tired and exhausted, both you and the girl.

If you are not goal oriented toward taking out a hottie that night, and just want to check out the club, then it doesn't matter, and go when you want.

LJ

Ronaldinjo
04-10-12, 22:30
Vladislava has jet black medium length hair and a very pretty face with the bluest, most amazing eyes, the kind of face that I could look at all day long and never get tired of seeing. Her breasts are enhanced, but to very sexy effect. She is slender and not wide-hipped like I usually prefer. But her tiny ass is so nicely shaped, it just called to me to enter her from behind when she was eating out Leela who was giving an operatic concert at the time. Vladislava has great presence and carries herself well. She is a conscientious pleaser, and an unabashed screamer. In my book, she is very hot stuff. Dynamite, in fact. And together with Leela, a true Slavic beauty with a smoking hot beautiful sexy shape, the two of these bisexual felines, will take your breath away. They are good friends and like each other and work well together. Lucky, lucky is the guy who finds himself in a sandwich with these two sex stars, entangled in a fucking, licking, screaming extravaganza. If you dare, just make sure you can outlast them, so you can score a couple of orgasms for each of them before you come. You won't regret the show that such an effort will produce.

There. You pulled it out of me, Ronaldinjo. In advance of my report. Are you happy now?

In retrospect the beautiful hours spent with Katya on Friday night (she finally allowed me normal DATY) when I first came to town, and Anita on Saturday night, Sophia on Sunday, all three very beautiful, sexy girls, whose appearance I have adequately described in my recent post in response to your questions, was just a prelude to Monday night's introduction to the sexual delights of Leela, and Tuesday night's awesome duo with Leela and her friend Vladislava.

At this point, the Leela and Vladislava duo adventure, is up there with my ATF experiences ranking together with the other dynamic duo in my Kiev sex life, the very cute and sexy Ada, together with the truly beautiful princess, Rosa (who has since retired) about which I have previously reported.

Of additional note was a freebie date on Tuesday afternoon with former Asia of Rio who retired last year, and who is now too involved with a boyfriend for me to get anywhere with her short term. But she still wants contact with me, so I will let it play out and see. She has got the best body and ass I've seen on any Rio dancer. I squirm with desire when I see how good her ass looks in jeans. It's true torture that I can't just have her.

Lastly there was the mamba girl I selected to meet with on Monday afternoon, Eva, about whom I've posted above.

Now my sights are set on FKK-land and my upcoming visit to Vienna Goldentime on April 18 to spend some quality time with Joanna, an amazing, perfect bodied Cover Girl type whose story I posted about previously. I will then head to Berlin for the night and possibly hit Artemis, and then I will be in Frankfurt's FKK Oase and Palace for weekend of April 20. 22, and lastly an overnight in London on April 22.

But I won't stop thinking about the great Kiev girls I enjoyed at the beginning of April for a very long time.

Happy Mongering.

LJDear Lyljoey,

I'm happy that you had great time in Kiev, you are real Kievman for us with great advices and good heart. Not like most (not all) mongers here that write mostly bullshit, complaining, writing about beauties from mamba and streets, but actually don't disclose us how and what to do appropriatelly, don't disclose us hot mamba girls. I'm happy with your report, but regret now that pulled it early from you beacause I'm used for your chronologic and informative report. So will be happy if you write all your great Kiev expirience chronologically day by day as you used before. So, if you can write it for us, if you can't, never mind.

LilJoey
04-10-12, 23:14
I have sex with 2 to 5 beautiful girls every day I am in Kiev. Sadly usually not at the same time. I'm not saying that in itself is repetitive. I'm talking about going to Rio non stop. Like I mentioned before, even was I was going to Rio a lot in 2006-2007 ($200) it was on a wall balanced diet of serial dating, night club semi pros and RP pros.

It's Kyiv! There are hot girls all over the place and all you guys talk about is Rio, Rio, Rio, a small strip club with mostly average girls!

Considering the talent of Kyiv as a whole comparing Rio to McD is accurate but I'd be willing to push it to TGI Fridays.Up to 5 girls a day for all the days you are in Kiev is quite impressive, Cruiser D. My hat is off to you, if you can sustain that pace.

There is nothing average about the girls I have selected for take out from Rio. I ignore the average looking Rio girls as do most guys.

While it is true that hot girls are all over the place in Kiev, those girls are mostly not Working Girls, so it is not true that a typical monger has any reasonably high likelihod of bedding them the very night he sees them.

That's why guys who want the hot girl in the bed THAT night need to seek out the WG's, like those at a venue like Rio, or in its day, the River Palace, or mamba. Ru and other websites.

There's nothing intrinsically better about the "method" itself of ordering girls off a website like mamba versus finding them on a river boat or a strip club. What's the difference? I don't get the negativity about the method. The point should be where and how to get the hottest pussy for the lowest price.

Thus far my experience has been that the more average girls are coming from mamba, and I find much hotter girls at Rio. Those are the facts Of my experience. Believe me, because of the price differential I truly wish that truth were reversed. Yet I'll keep trying with mamba to see if I can Get better results than girls of 6 or 7 quality level.

SooNice
04-11-12, 00:06
Hello, my friends,

I've been lurking this thread since I booked a ticket to Kiev, going in a couple of weeks. I try to find concrete and straight forward info about the scene, but it's a hassle to read the babble inbetween. It would be most helpful if any experienced fellow could gather useful info in one single post. I'm talking about url's to saloons, url's to RIO and similar clubs, best agencies and clubs for freebies. Or the best would be pin point on google maps.

As far as I understand, picking up girls (pro's &nsemi pro's) in regular clubs is the best bet? I'm used to the FKK scene in germany and hope for some DFK, BBBJ and licking in Kiev.

I have pretty nice experiences from Mamba, but it's very time consuming to chat and a huge risk that the girl is butt ugly in reality or doesn't show up. I want sex for sure.

Fingers crossed.

Cheers

Member #4491
04-11-12, 04:00
Five in a day. For that I would have to inject a mixture of Andros, Cyalis and honey, and I am not yet 40.

I naturally do what I can to pay less than I have to, but feel an urge to comment on the idea that people are idiots because they pay more than they have to if they go somewhere else where they can pay less money (but more time) for the same thing. How a man wish to spend his money is for him to decide. And this crap I sometimes see about being loyal and not push up the market price, is just bs. Why the f*ck should a monger care about strangers that clearly do nothing to help him get the secret cheap punani, if he can afford to set a new standard of prices? If I have two dollars, and the rest of the monger population has only one and do shit to help me get what I need for one dollar, I will gladly spend the two and cock block all the suckers in the world. Now who is the idiot? Friends is another story but Monger loyalty is a myth. Just look at ISG. Most people try to not "overpay" for anything, but people are not equally equipped with time, looks and pick up skills. Shared wisdom means price control. And as a consequence, if seniors leave newbs to completely have their own learning curve, they WILL pay what they are asked to pay to get that pussy on their well deserved fuck vacation. And this will be necessity be more than the experts are used to and perhaps willing to pay, hence driving up the prices. Simple instant karma. So with every advice of what NOT to do, there should be one solid hands on advice of WHAT to do instead. We men have to learn to hold hands again. Lead each other a bit. Believe it or not you cynical f*cks, but what goes around comes around.

Having said all of this about capitalistic freedom I must add that a woman working in a steel factory in the coal mine towns in southeast of Ukraine makes 150 USD per month. One hour of sex will cost equal to 2-4 days of normal low paid work in many other parts of the world. A generous interpretation of this "rule" would be that the correct price for P4P in Ukraine is somewhere around 50-60 USD / h.

I am chatting with primarily one sweet girl in Ukraine. During the few days I will be there, I will for sure see her several times. And some Mamba girls and maybe a Rio girl or two, to see what this is about (I hate fake moans and always fear to end up with this in places like Rio). The girls on Mamba get many requests per day for P4P but be honest and a bit original and you will get responses from real girls (if this is what you are looking for). I go 5 years below my own age in the stated age preferences and of course message all pretty girls that has no stated age preference, with my semi suggestive message in Russian (Google translate). The younger ones seems to jump the gun easier. Had a couple of complaints and I deviated from this age principle today again, so now I am blocked. Since Mamba has low control of what is fake and what is real, it turns into a numbers game. Draw enough numbers and you will win. But it is a fine line to walk to catch both the good ones AND the bad ones, while weeding out the fugly ones at the same time.

B.

LilJoey
04-11-12, 07:33
Five in a day. For that I would have to inject a mixture of Andros, Cyalis and honey, and I am not yet 40.

I naturally do what I can to pay less than I have to, but feel an urge to comment on the idea that people are idiots because they pay more than they have to if they go somewhere else where they can pay less money (but more time) for the same thing. How a man wish to spend his money is for him to decide. And this crap I sometimes see about being loyal and not push up the market price, is just bs. Why the f*ck should a monger care about strangers that clearly do nothing to help him get the secret cheap punani, if he can afford to set a new standard of prices? If I have two dollars, and the rest of the monger population has only one and do shit to help me get what I need for one dollar, I will gladly spend the two and cock block all the suckers in the world. Now who is the idiot? Friends is another story but Monger loyalty is a myth. Just look at ISG. Most people try to not "overpay" for anything, but people are not equally equipped with time, looks and pick up skills. Shared wisdom means price control. And as a consequence, if seniors leave newbs to completely have their own learning curve, they WILL pay what they are asked to pay to get that pussy on their well deserved fuck vacation. And this will be necessity be more than the experts are used to and perhaps willing to pay, hence driving up the prices. Simple instant karma. So with every advice of what NOT to do, there should be one solid hands on advice of WHAT to do instead. We men have to learn to hold hands again. Lead each other a bit. Believe it or not you cynical f*cks, but what goes around comes around.

Having said all of this about capitalistic freedom I must add that a woman working in a steel factory in the coal mine towns in southeast of Ukraine makes 150 USD per month. One hour of sex will cost equal to 2-4 days of normal low paid work in many other parts of the world. A generous interpretation of this "rule" would be that the correct price for P4P in Ukraine is somewhere around 50-60 USD / h.

I am chatting with primarily one sweet girl in Ukraine. During the few days I will be there, I will for sure see her several times. And some Mamba girls and maybe a Rio girl or two, to see what this is about (I hate fake moans and always fear to end up with this in places like Rio). The girls on Mamba get many requests per day for P4P but be honest and a bit original and you will get responses from real girls (if this is what you are looking for). I go 5 years below my own age in the stated age preferences and of course message all pretty girls that has no stated age preference, with my semi suggestive message in Russian (Google translate). The younger ones seems to jump the gun easier. Had a couple of complaints and I deviated from this age principle today again, so now I am blocked. Since Mamba has low control of what is fake and what is real, it turns into a numbers game. Draw enough numbers and you will win. But it is a fine line to walk to catch both the good ones AND the bad ones, while weeding out the fugly ones at the same time.

B.Barba, you have hit the nail on the head with this post. You are, indeed, largely on your own in Mongering in Kiev.

Assuming your goal is to have great GFE sex with the highest level of beauty you can get to within the time you have allotted to yourself in Kiev, you have two pathways open before you: (1) the more certain but more costly pathway to very hot pussy (which is laid out in detail and careful analysis in the body of my earlier reports. I held nothing back. It's all there and can unerringly guide the newbie to hot pussy. All they have to do is not be lazy and read and learn) , or (2) the less costly but more difficult, time consuming and risky path of heavily dating girls from mamba or that you can pick up in clubs and streets and shopping malls, that might or might not get you the high level beauties you would like to experience during your trip, which is advocated by some veteran members.

I am by nature a more cautious, methodical fellow. I did not want to come to Kiev for a few days and follow a course which was risky and might result in only sex with average looking girls. I wanted to guarantee that I would be able to have very beautiful girls during my trip. Therefore, I have focused on the 1st path, while spending only some time gingerly testing the possibilities of the 2nd path to see if I could get some acceptable results before committing more time from my trip to it. And I analyzed the correct path to achieve this and have laid out my analysis, reasoning and recommendations for all who are not too lazy to read. Think of this 1st pathway as a safety net. It is the most likely or more guaranteed way to get high level beauties at the lowest price available with sufficient likelihood within a short visit to Kiev.

My results on using mamba have been cheap, but not impressive in the beauty department, and I've only gotten girls on a 6 to 7 level of beauty. If they were the best that I had gotten on a Kiev trip, I would have been disappointed.

But I am willing to admit that it is possible that my mediocre results from mamba might have been the result of me not pursuing the mamba option sufficiently, and not committing enough time from my trip to it. I have been afraid of leaving the safety net of sure and certain very beautiful but costly pussy, for fear of having disappointing trip results.

But to do this 2nd pathway of using mamba correctly, after meeting with Hunter Dave this past trip, I have come to realize that you can't be half assed about it. You need to schedule dates with many, many girls, back to back, One after the other, and you need to go all out, in order to properly play this numbers game.

Choose several nice meeting locations for a coffee or a drink located not too far apart around the downtown area, and go from one location to the other, to meet with your successive dates. You must warn the girls in advance that you are a very busy man and if they are not timely, you will not be able to wait long for them to arrive and will need to reschedule the meeting with them. Even if you can't sustain 5 sexual encounters a day, you can certainly have mini dates with 5 or more girls each day. You are looking for non pro or semi pro girls, not agency girls.

Ultimately, you are relying on your own charms to develop a nice connection with them and ultimately get them up to your apartment on some pretext and hopefully get things to proceed to a sexual encounter (for which there is no guarantee). Obviously, you can't afford to date a girl more than a couple of times without it getting down to sex.

There's much more advice that the veterans can give on how to and what to do. I wish they would contribute as you suggested they should, and create a primer containing their insights and advice.

But even without it, I have come to the conclusion that it could be worth it to try an all out mamba dating schedule for a couple of days and see where it can lead. Yes, it's a risk that I won't meet good looking Enough girls, but on the other hand, it might also pay off over time. So I think what I will do my next trip, is focus on the mamba for a couple of days of multiple mini dates and see where it leads, and give the 2nd pathway a better chance of succeeding. Maybe I will come up with girls who are hot enough, and much cheaper to boot. I can still leave the safety net in place for the last night or 2 nights of my trip, or schedule a 1 night stopover in FKK land on the way home, just in case. But I don't think I can legitimately reject the 2nd pathway as a means of getting very beautiful girls, unless I give it a fair chance.

LJ

LilJoey
04-11-12, 09:16
Dear Lyljoey,

I'm happy that you had great time in Kiev, you are real Kievman for us with great advices and good heart. Not like most (not all) mongers here that write mostly bullshit, complaining, writing about beauties from mamba and streets, but actually don't disclose us how and what to do appropriatelly, don't disclose us hot mamba girls. I'm happy with your report, but regret now that pulled it early from you beacause I'm used for your chronologic and informative report. So will be happy if you write all your great Kiev expirience chronologically day by day as you used before. So, if you can write it for us, if you can't, never mind.Dear Ronaldinjo, I was just joking with you about pulling out of me the story of the Vladislava and Leela duo on my last night. So don't be regretting anything. And I did put in the chronology of which girls and when I saw them. The only thing I didn't do is create a paragraph for each girl, describing the sex play with each for the horny old dogs on this forum, but I figured the description of what went down with Vladislava and Leela was salacious enough to satisfy that need, and I hoped I would be forgiven for not posting repetitive sexual details of the date with each girl, Katya (Friday night) , Anita (Saturday night) , Sophia (Sunday afternoon) , Leela 1st time (Monday night) , Leela and Vladislava (Tuesday night). All girls from Rio; and Eva@mamba (Monday afternoon) , and a freebie date with Asia (Tuesday afternoon). Saturday afternoon got wasted by cancellations by Eva of her 2pm appointment, and cancellation by Asia of her 5pm date. Both were rescheduled for later in trip. I have no idea where Sunday night disappeared to after Sophia left my apartment. Just can't remember. Anyway that's the whole chronology. I posted descriptions of how each girl looks in another of my responses to you (Katya long shiny light brown mane of hair gorgeous cute Barby doll princess) , Anita and Sophia (blondes with pretty faces and great bodies) , Leela (outstandingly pretty classic beauty brunette with sizzling hot curves) and Vladislava (jet black hair, amazing deep blue eyes, tall slender very good looking pretty faced sex amazon) by way of reminder. So really you have it all, except for the porno, which I will allow you to imagine for yourself, and it Will probably be better than what I might write. LOL.

I had numbers of girls I know from past trips who I had spoken to before my arrival and was supposed to call and see. For example, Sasha formerly of River Palace (awesome brunette), Natasha (blonde) and Stesha (brunette) both formerly of top--modals.com, and a few other Rio girls whose mumbers i have, like Darina (sizzling hot dirty blonde princess) or Ada or Lera, etc., but to tell you the truth, I just didn't have the strength or desire. Which is why I'm in awe of a guy like Hunter Dave who bangs them out like a machine press, or claims of 5 a day made recently by Cruiser D. I observedin a previous post that I am capable of 3 or 4 girls a night and routinely do it when I am in the FKK. But for some reason, I am much more slowed down when I am in Kiev, most probably because of the effort needed to go find the next girl, whereas in the FKK the girls are all over you continually.

Happy Mongering

LJ

LilJoey
04-11-12, 09:44
Hello, my friends,

I've been lurking this thread since I booked a ticket to Kiev, going in a couple of weeks. I try to find concrete and straight forward info about the scene, but it's a hassle to read the babble inbetween. It would be most helpful if any experienced fellow could gather useful info in one single post. I'm talking about url's to saloons, url's to RIO and similar clubs, best agencies and clubs for freebies. Or the best would be pin point on google maps.

As far as I understand, picking up girls (pro's &nsemi pro's) in regular clubs is the best bet? I'm used to the FKK scene in germany and hope for some DFK, BBBJ and licking in Kiev.

I have pretty nice experiences from Mamba, but it's very time consuming to chat and a huge risk that the girl is butt ugly in reality or doesn't show up. I want sex for sure.

Fingers crossed.

CheersIf you're already booked and going, friend, I suggest you stop being lazy like most FKK guys and read the thread going back as many months as you can until trip time lest you waste your money spent on the travel expenses. Everything you asked for is in the thread just a few pages back. That's how I know you haven't read it. Romany Star created the Google map and posted it on the thread. In the Reports of Distinction section there was a post by Latexian with links to some of my older reports. That should get you started. My prior reports more or less are designed to spoon feed you the necessary info. So Read, dear newbie, read. Then ask any questions that don't reveal that you are lazy, and you will get better responses for guidance requests. Yes mamba is a risk of what you get, so that's why it's a numbers game and you have to chase down many contacts if you are looking for the cheaper sex available in Kiev. If you're looking for P4p pros and semi pros, then I will bet that you will lose that bet that the best place is regular clubs in Kiev. You need to read more of the thread. Yes I am goading you, but for your own benefit.

Ronaldinjo
04-11-12, 10:11
Dear Ronaldinjo, I was just joking with you about pulling out of me the story of the Vladislava and Leela duo on my last night. So don't be regretting anything. And I did put in the chronology of which girls and when I saw them. The only thing I didn't do is create a paragraph for each girl, describing the sex play with each for the horny old dogs on this forum, but I figured the description of what went down with Vladislava and Leela was salacious enough to satisfy that need, and I hoped I would be forgiven for not posting repetitive sexual details of the date with each girl, Katya (Friday night) , Anita (Saturday night) , Sophia (Sunday afternoon) , Leela 1st time (Monday night) , Leela and Vladislava (Tuesday night). All girls from Rio; and Eva@mamba (Monday afternoon) , and a freebie date with Asia (Tuesday afternoon). Saturday afternoon got wasted by cancellations by Eva of her 2pm appointment, and cancellation by Asia of her 5pm date. Both were rescheduled for later in trip. I have no idea where Sunday night disappeared to after Sophia left my apartment. Just can't remember. Anyway that's the whole chronology. I posted descriptions of how each girl looks in another of my responses to you (Katya long shiny light brown mane of hair gorgeous cute Barby doll princess) , Anita and Sophia (blondes with pretty faces and great bodies) , Leela (outstandingly pretty classic beauty brunette with sizzling hot curves) and Vladislava (jet black hair, amazing deep blue eyes, tall slender very good looking pretty faced sex amazon) by way of reminder. So really you have it all, except for the porno, which I will allow you to imagine for yourself, and it Will probably be better than what I might write. LOL.

I had numbers of girls I know from past trips who I had spoken to before my arrival and was supposed to call and see. For example, Sasha formerly of River Palace (awesome brunette) , Natasha (blonde) and Stesha (brunette) both formerly of top-modals. Com, and a few other Rio girls whose mumbers I have, like Darina (sizzling hot dirty blonde princess) or Ada or Lera, etc, but to tell you the truth, I just didn't have the strength or desire. Which is why I'm in awe of a guy like Hunter Dave who bangs them out like a machine press, or claims of 5 a day made recently by Cruiser D. I observedin a previous post that I am capable of 3 or 4 girls a night and routinely do it when I am in the FKK. But for some reason, I am much more slowed down when I am in Kiev, most probably because of the effort needed to go find the next girl, whereas in the FKK the girls are all over you continually.

Happy Mongering.

LJI'm portugueese divorced man on my early 50ies, former sportsman, good shaped and good looking typical latino man. Its hard to believe how you manage to bang several girls in a raw day by day (as cruiser the posted for example) , even with big quantities of viagra (by the way gyes, to call viagra vitamin see is misnomer, it is same as to call viagra anticancer drug, no connection) , so I can't comprehend it, even much yunger horny boys can't bang 5 new girls each day several days a row, or maybe gyes cums only once a day, or cruiser the cums only once while banging 5 girls? Or just speaks nonsence?

Joey, how many times you cum in each encounter, every session last how much time on avarage? Do you cum after every session?

And by the way, day before duo with Vladislava and Leela, you had a session with Leela. How did you bring up the topic about duo with both of them? Did she tell you that she has hot girlfriend and there is possibility for duo or you inquired and offered the duo possibility later? How much duo costed. 600 $ for 3 hours or did you agree on a little bit less?

With respect, Ronaldinjo

Muddy7
04-11-12, 11:26
LilJoey:
One of the girls said she comes to the club one hour early for English lessons, I guess RIO has hired an English teacher, maybe Joey is their English teacher

Darina.
FACE: 6.
BODY: 8 small tits.
PERSONALITY: a generous 6
It seems she thinks she is the queen of RIO, just didn't enjoy talking to her. I just asked her what is your name and she said I will come talk to you after I change. 10 minutes later she is ordering her cocktail, cigarettes, and water and was trying to get me to have a private dance and is talking about her $500 fee.

Lera.
FACE: 7.
BODY: 7.
PERSONALITY: 7.

Katya.
FACE: 7.
BODY: 7.
PERSONALITY: I don't know, didn't talk to her, she was busy, I would say she is probably better than Lera and Darina.

Isabella.
FACE: 6. 5.
BODY: 7.
PERSONALITY: 7 fun, nice to talk you.

Zalata:
FACE: 6.5
BODY: 8. 5.
PERSONALITY: 7.
Blond, small breasts. She really has a great body, loved her ass and thighs, when I talked to her I got the feeling she was on drugs, she seemed a little high, she said she has just started working there and at this time does not go out.

Marina.
FACE: 7. 5.
BODY: 6. 5.
PERSONALITY: 7.
pretty blond girl.

Sophia.
FACE: 7 liked her big blue eyes.
BODY: 8 very nice tits, nice ass.
PERSONALITY: 7

Ronaldinjo
04-11-12, 11:44
liljoey:

one of the girls said she come to the club one hour early for english lessons, i guess rio has hired an english teacher.

darina.

face: 6.

body: 8 small tits.

personality: a generous 6

it seems she thinks she is the queen of rio, just didn't enjoy talking to her. i just asked her what is your name and she said i will come talk to you after i change. 10 minutes later she is ordering her cocktail, cigarettes, and water and was trying to get me to have a private dance and is talking about her $500 fee.

lera.

face: 7.

body: 7.

personality: 7.

katya.

face: 7.

body: 7.

personality: i don't know, didn't talk to her, she was busy, i would say she is probably better than lera and darina.

isabella.

face: 6. 5.

body: 7.

personality: 7 fun, nice to talk you.

zalata:

face: 6.

body: 8. 5.

personality: 7.

blond, small breasts. she really has a great body, loved her ass and thighs, when i talked to her i got the feeling she was on drugs, she seemed a little high, she said she has just started working there and at this time does not go out.

marina.

face: 7. 5.

body: 6. 5.

personality: 7.

nice pretty blond girl.

sophia.

face: 7 liked her big blue eyes.

body: 8 very nice tits, nics ass.

personality: 7you give a very low mark to girls faces. maybe you find 8th and 9s in mamba. can you describe marina? how she looks, does she speeks english?

LilJoey
04-11-12, 12:21
LilJoey:

One of the girls said she comes to the club one hour early for English lessons, I guess RIO has hired an English teacher, maybe Joey is their English teacherNow that's an interesting job. I would only give lessons at my apartment, however. It would be in my specialty, of course, which is linguistics, I. E. The use of the tongue to communicate. In this part of the lesson I use my tongue on their cute little clitorises to cause them to "communicate" whatever's on their mind. Of course my methods would be much more effective than Pimsleur's. It would definitely involve certain very specialized exercises for the tongue, vital to getting rid of a heavy Russian accent and would have to involve trying to talk while my shaft was stuck down their cute little throats, for every mistake, they would get another centimeter, and special exercises to see if they can remember to say,"yes, yes, oh fuck meeee!" instead of the usual "Da, Da, Da!!" at the brink of an orgasm. Then I will know if they have really learned right and proper English.

Hmmmm. Let me see. From your list I have already started giving lessons to Darina, Lera, Katya, and Sophia. They are cumming along nicely in their studies.

Cruiser D
04-12-12, 00:05
Up 5 girls a day, not 5 girls everyday. I know a lot of girls in Kiev and I don't like to disappoint, what can I say, I am all about the love. I have over 1100 contacts in my Ukrainian android phone, I know a lot of girls. It is to the point now where I tell the girls. Yeah, you can come over now or in an hour but don't be surprised if there is another girl here or just leaving.

The hottest pussy for the lowest price isn't Rio.

The most I ever pay for a girl is $100. I've gotten a lot of very attractive girls on mamba who started out at $500. When I ask the super hot girls why they met me for $100 they reply with, I like your height, I like your photos, etc. I met one of your Vodka Escort girls off of mamba for $90. We've been (fuck) buddies for the last 2 or so years. One of the sexpats I met earlier in my trips to Kiev put it this way, 'Pretty Woman' is one of the favorite video rentals in Ukraine. He's a douche but that statement has more then a little truth to it. It truly is a case of YMMV.

Ukrainian girls and girls in general are a lot of fun.


Up to 5 girls a day for all the days you are in Kiev is quite impressive, Cruiser D. My hat is off to you, if you can sustain that pace.

There's nothing intrinsically better about the "method" itself of ordering girls off a website like mamba versus finding them on a river boat or a strip club. What's the difference? I don't get the negativity about the method. The point should be where and how to get the hottest pussy for the lowest price.

Thus far my experience has been that the more average girls are coming from mamba, and I find much hotter girls at Rio. Those are the facts Of my experience. Believe me, because of the price differential I truly wish that truth were reversed. Yet I'll keep trying with mamba to see if I can Get better results than girls of 6 or 7 quality level.

Cruiser D
04-12-12, 00:10
SooNice. Going to clubs in Kiev is your best bet in finding pro's and semi pro's that you can touch, feel, sniff, talk to and take home. Go to D'Lux, Go to Arena, Go to Avalon, Go to Sky Bar. Or go to any club in Kiev that foreigners know about. Ok?

Don't go to Buddha Bar, the place sucks.

Go to Rio and then you can post about how lame it is to go there when you can go to the real clubs.

LilJoey, so many words, so little (if not repetitive) information.


As far as I understand, picking up girls (pro's &nsemi pro's) in regular clubs is the best bet? I'm used to the FKK scene in germany and hope for some DFK, BBBJ and licking in Kiev.

I have pretty nice experiences from Mamba, but it's very time consuming to chat and a huge risk that the girl is butt ugly in reality or doesn't show up. I want sex for sure.

Member #4491
04-12-12, 00:43
Choose several nice meeting locations for a coffee or a drink located not too far apart around the downtown area, and go from one location to the other, to meet with your successive dates. You must warn the girls in advance that you are a very busy man and if they are not timely, you will not be able to wait long for them to arrive and will need to reschedule the meeting with them. Even if you can't sustain 5 sexual encounters a day, you can certainly have mini dates with 5 or more girls each day. You are looking for non pro or semi pro girls, not agency girls.They may look like us on the outside but in reality they are all Philippina girls. Different name, same game.

Women want the same thing and say the same things, but with different dialects. They want to be seen, recognized, acknowledged and entertained. They want a smiling and humble winner. They want your time (attention) or your money. And sometimes both. I love them but they are lazy, greedy and vain. And naive, romantic and sweet. What a mixture. No wonder they makes us fight here in this little pieces of cyber dust.

LJ, you are a returning visitor so to hit a few social forums and get some regulars would not be so hard, after what I have discovered in these last weeks. Some of the girls I chat with are super lovely and traditional in their views and thoughts. Julia is really nice to chat with. I fall in love with her every time I chat with her. Right now we are chatting about her thoughts on her future. She wants to get a good education and she wants to travel. How original. But still I love her sweet, caring and submissive persona.

LJ, your post makes total sense. They always did. You are totally logical given your claimed (and reflected) personality, and your way of penetrating this cookie. Rio is a predictable entry point (and as Cruiser D pointed out, it is far from the end point). ONE of the ways to start the Ukraine exploration. They should thank you by the way. Rio will have an LJ related boost in turnover. I will pitch in. Thanks once again for taking the time.

B.

LilJoey
04-12-12, 02:28
soonice. going to clubs in kiev is your best bet in finding pro's and semi pro's that you can touch, feel, sniff, talk to and take home. go to d'lux, go to arena, go to avalon, go to sky bar. or go to any club in kiev that foreigners know about. ok?

don't go to buddha bar, the place sucks.

go to rio and then you can post about how lame it is to go there when you can go to the real clubs.

liljoey, so many words, so little (if not repetitive) information.
up 5 girls a day, not 5 girls everyday. i know a lot of girls in kiev and i don't like to disappoint, what can i say, i am all about the love. i have over 1100 contacts in my ukrainian android phone, i know a lot of girls. it is to the point now where i tell the girls. yeah, you can come over now or in an hour but don't be surprised if there is another girl here or just leaving.

the hottest pussy for the lowest price isn't rio.

the most i ever pay for a girl is $100. i've gotten a lot of very attractive girls on mamba who started out at $500. when i ask the super hot girls why they met me for $100 they reply with, i like your height, i like your photos, etc. i met one of your vodka escort girls off of mamba for $90. we've been (fuck) buddies for the last 2 or so years. one of the sexpats i met earlier in my trips to kiev put it this way, 'pretty woman' is one of the favorite video rentals in ukraine. he's a douche but that statement has more then a little truth to it. it truly is a case of ymmv.

ukrainian girls and girls in general are a lot of fun.better not leave your ukrainian android phone on a bench someplace. very valuable 1100 contacts.

out of curiosity which of "my vodka escort girls" did you meet? (i've only had three before they went out of business, inna, julia and alina).

cruiser d, i don't recall any reports on this thread within the last year reporting lower prices being asked by wg's in the regular clubs like d'lux, arena etc. the posts pretty uniformly state that the prices demanded by wg's in these clubs start high, like at $500 or $400, and usually you can get 2 hours, and maybe you can negotiate the price down to $300/2hours. that's higher than rio's prices.

no one has been reporting getting wg rates at the regular clubs of $200/2hours. that would be the equivalent of the $100 / hr net rate being asked at rio for a 3 hour date (with the advantage of only having to pay for 2 hours instead of rio's 3 hour minimum).

do you have different information than has been uniformly reported on this board?

i think you are steering this fellow wrong. when it comes to comparing rates at rio with rates of wg's at the regular clubs like d'lux and arena, etc, where you can see the girl in advance (not like the website girls from mamba where it's a surprise what will show up) , then rio is asking the lower prices.

do you really disagree with the statement that the hottest p4p pussy for the lowest price -- that you can see in advance in a club -- currently available to a newbie (not an old contact in your android phone) -- is at rio?

(if you are claiming that in the lower priced girls one can meet off of mamba, there are girls to be gotten who are hotter than the girls one can get at rio, then i will not contradict you because i don't have enough of a sampling of mamba girls under my belt to be statistically valid as a basis to do so, although it has not been my experience on mamba thus far. as i reported, i have thus far only gotten girls off of mamba who are significantly lower in beauty than the rio girls i have gotten. but i know i need to ramp up the sampling of mamba girls on my next trip to see if what you and others claim is possible for me too. believe me i would love to get girls as hot as the rio girls i have gotten for a lower mamba price of $100 / hr or $75 / hr.)

(it appears you have another pet peeve, this time about buddha bar. yes, in terms of environment it is less fun than going to a disco dance club. it's a restaurant / bar. but in terms of being a location where one can meet wg's it's as functional as the other clubs. the wg's are there waiting. rp wasn't a dance club in the true sense either, since only the girls danced for the most part, and the men ogled. yet it was a good place to pick up wg's so it served its purpose as a wg venue. one might say it's easier to spot the wg's at buddha bar than at the dance clubs. but i was never impressed with the quantity. none of these clubs has ever approached rp for quantity of hot pussy.)

lj

LilJoey
04-12-12, 06:44
i'm portugueese divorced man on my early 50ies, former sportsman, good shaped and good looking typical latino man. its hard to believe how you manage to bang several girls in a raw day by day (as cruiser the posted for example) , even with big quantities of viagra (by the way gyes, to call viagra vitamin see is misnomer, it is same as to call viagra anticancer drug, no connection) , so i can't comprehend it, even much yunger horny boys can't bang 5 new girls each day several days a row, or maybe gyes cums only once a day, or cruiser the cums only once while banging 5 girls? or just speaks nonsence?

joey, how many times you cum in each encounter, every session last how much time on avarage? do you cum after every session?

and by the way, day before duo with vladislava and leela, you had a session with leela. how did you bring up the topic about duo with both of them? did she tell you that she has hot girlfriend and there is possibility for duo or you inquired and offered the duo possibility later? how much duo costed. 600 $ for 3 hours or did you agree on a little bit less?

with respect, ronaldinjoso, ronaldinjo, we are exactly the same, except i am not portugueese, former sportsman, good shaped and good looking typical latino man. lol.

vitamin c refers to cialis, which i actually prefer to viagra, because it stays in your system for 36 hours, so i pop 1 a day during a mongering trip when i expect many sexual episodes. it isn't necessary in the beginning for the first times you have sex, but it helps when you are way out there into a zone of fucking multiple times each day for several days in a row as a sort of insurance policy that you won't have any problem with maintaining an erection when in a state of near sexual exhaustion, so that you don't end up wasting the money you might have paid for that session. it can't help you with "leche", and if you have no more leche left after having ejaculated your entire current supply, you will not be able to cum despite your erection. but p4p girls are not overjoyed with this because they are not there for the long fuck and personal pleasure, and they would prefer the quick fuck and out with their money, plus it will cost you for the time, so best to end the session after a reasonable amount of fucking even if you haven't cum because you can't.

in an fkk i find myself inspired to do 3 to 4 sessions each visit. it might be possible for me to get 5 in on the first night, but i could not do that 2 nights in a row. the 2nd night would be more like 2 times, then the third night i might be back up to 3 times. but that is behavior that i have only in these special pussy concentrated environments like an fkk where many naked girls are all over the place and i can stay around all day and night if i want to until an urge to be with one again comes to me.

in kiev i have found that because i taking out girls from rio either for 3 hours, or for all night, that in the three hour date i try to stretch out the sex to go on for a long time and occupy 2 to 2. 5 hours of the time together with sex, and unless it is my first session, i am usually cumming just once. after the girl goes home, usually around 5 or 6 am, i have a bite to eat, watching the news, and then sleep from around 7am until about 1 or 2pm. then there is time to invite over a mamba girl or a girl from some other website for an hour session of cheap sex. then back to the super hot club girls at night. cumming twice a day is what seems to be happening to me in kiev. but it is related to the fact that at night i am usually with an expensive girl for about 2 hours in bed, and after having sex twice a day for a few days, i am not usually going to pop twice in 2 hours, so i use up most or all that time with one long lasting sex session, and time my cumming at the end by controlling the positions i use and the speed of the fucking.

yes, there are some guys who have a faster recharge rate and they can have leche ready to go in a very short time after cumming. and some guys have a slower recharge rate. it's also a factor of age and metabolism, general health and even the foods you eat. i think you will find, though, that if you put yourself in a more taxing situation where there is much more sexual demand and enticement, like in an fkk, or a brazilian terma, you will rise to the occasion and will be able to do much more sex.

than you normally have.

as to leela and vladislava, on tuesday night, i was sitting with sophia, in vip, the girl i had been with on sunday, two days earlier, and she was saying that she didn't feel so good, and then leela from the night before walked by and i called her over. sophia moved on and leela said she had been waiting for me with a little suggestive smile. she is the one who suggested taking her friend vladislava. the price was standard amount of $300 each,

Ronaldinjo
04-12-12, 12:24
so, ronaldinjo, we are exactly the same, except i am not portugueese, former sportsman, good shaped and good looking typical latino man. lol.

vitamin c refers to cialis, which i actually prefer to viagra, because it stays in your system for 36 hours, so i pop 1 a day during a mongering trip when i expect many sexual episodes. it isn't necessary in the beginning for the first times you have sex, but it helps when you are way out there into a zone of fucking multiple times each day for several days in a row as a sort of insurance policy that you won't have any problem with maintaining an erection when in a state of near sexual exhaustion, so that you don't end up wasting the money you might have paid for that session. it can't help you with "leche", and if you have no more leche left after having ejaculated your entire current supply, you will not be able to cum despite your erection. but p4p girls are not overjoyed with this because they are not there for the long fuck and personal pleasure, and they would prefer the quick fuck and out with their money, plus it will cost you for the time, so best to end the session after a reasonable amount of fucking even if you haven't cum because you can't.

in an fkk i find myself inspired to do 3 to 4 sessions each visit. it might be possible for me to get 5 in on the first night, but i could not do that 2 nights in a row. the 2nd night would be more like 2 times, then the third night i might be back up to 3 times. but that is behavior that i have only in these special pussy concentrated environments like an fkk where many naked girls are all over the place and i can stay around all day and night if i want to until an urge to be with one again comes to me.

in kiev i have found that because i taking out girls from rio either for 3 hours, or for all night, that in the three hour date i try to stretch out the sex to go on for a long time and occupy 2 to 2. 5 hours of the time together with sex, and unless it is my first session, i am usually cumming just once. after the girl goes home, usually around 5 or 6 am, i have a bite to eat, watching the news, and then sleep from around 7am until about 1 or 2pm. then there is time to invite over a mamba girl or a girl from some other website for an hour session of cheap sex. then back to the super hot club girls at night. cumming twice a day is what seems to be happening to me in kiev. but it is related to the fact that at night i am usually with an expensive girl for about 2 hours in bed, and after having sex twice a day for a few days, i am not usually going to pop twice in 2 hours, so i use up most or all that time with one long lasting sex session, and time my cumming at the end by controlling the positions i use and the speed of the fucking.

yes, there are some guys who have a faster recharge rate and they can have leche ready to go in a very short time after cumming. and some guys have a slower recharge rate. it's also a factor of age and metabolism, general health and even the foods you eat. i think you will find, though, that if you put yourself in a more taxing situation where there is much more sexual demand and enticement, like in an fkk, or a brazilian terma, you will rise to the occasion and will be able to do much more sex.

than you normally have.

as to leela and vladislava, on tuesday night, i was sitting with sophia, in vip, the girl i had been with on sunday, two days earlier, and she was saying that she didn't feel so good, and then leela from the night before walked by and i called her over. sophia moved on and leela said she had been waiting for me with a little suggestive smile. she is the one who suggested taking her friend vladislava. the price was standard amount of $300 each, joey,

i can only envy those gyes that can cum multiple and multiple times for 3-4-5 days in a raw. i knew one brazilian who did it, and he told me he ate a lot of beef and nuts. so my performances are very much like yours. by the way, just for interest, are you divorces with children, does your children know your big love to quality pussy, scandinavian or german, where is your permanent residence and how is morgening life in your country? in portugal morgening life compared to our big and toung sister brazil is poor, costly and boring. i have a boy and i guess he suspects that i'm not indifferent for slavic pussy. potrugueeze brunettes are not so appealing to me, maybe because i used to them, i preffere less dark ladies. it difficult to date pretty young girls in portugal unless you are rich, which i'm not.

you took leila home at monday and then duo on tuesday. curious if it is was possible to take both of them on monday, the first day you banged leeyla, or this opportunity came only the day after, did you know that duo possibility with leeyla and vladislava existed before? usually girls offer you duo or you offer it to them? and joey, when you make duo, are you cumming twice with each girl separately?

SooNice
04-12-12, 15:00
SooNice. Going to clubs in Kiev is your best bet in finding pro's and semi pro's that you can touch, feel, sniff, talk to and take home. Go to D'Lux, Go to Arena, Go to Avalon, Go to Sky Bar. Or go to any club in Kiev that foreigners know about. Ok?

Don't go to Buddha Bar, the place sucks.

Go to Rio and then you can post about how lame it is to go there when you can go to the real clubs.

LilJoey, so many words, so little (if not repetitive) information."sniff" LOL.

I'm sure I'll do fine. Will report after my trip.

Thank you.

SooNice
04-12-12, 17:10
Up 5 girls a day, not 5 girls everyday. I know a lot of girls in Kiev and I don't like to disappoint, what can I say, I am all about the love. I have over 1100 contacts in my Ukrainian android phone, I know a lot of girls. It is to the point now where I tell the girls. Yeah, you can come over now or in an hour but don't be surprised if there is another girl here or just leaving.

The hottest pussy for the lowest price isn't Rio.

The most I ever pay for a girl is $100. I've gotten a lot of very attractive girls on mamba who started out at $500. When I ask the super hot girls why they met me for $100 they reply with, I like your height, I like your photos, etc. I met one of your Vodka Escort girls off of mamba for $90. We've been (fuck) buddies for the last 2 or so years. One of the sexpats I met earlier in my trips to Kiev put it this way, 'Pretty Woman' is one of the favorite video rentals in Ukraine. He's a douche but that statement has more then a little truth to it. It truly is a case of YMMV.

Ukrainian girls and girls in general are a lot of fun.Gosh you make me jelous. I'm tired of chatting up girls online. It would be convenient with a huge list for bootycalls. Cruiser D take me under your wings and teach me LOL.

Since I got single last year, I have shagged a lot of girls but most of them are p4p in German gb clubs or FKK's. Maybe around 10-15 freebies from datingsites and from regular clubs.

I'm in my mid thirties, athletic, decent looking scandinavian man and well dressed. BUT It's hard to make contact with real ukranian hotties on Mamba. I get a lot of replies but most of them are smileys and nothing more. I guess one downside is that my profile is written in English and I speak no Russian. Another one is that I'm only 178 cm tall. EE girls are tall in general + high heels.

It's hard to find time to chit chat. I want to get straight to the point. Sometimes it works. One time I exchanged 3 messages with a girl from Kharkov. We met and had sex for 3 days. Love was in the air. She even introduced me to her mum, but distance is a bad foundation for a relationship.

I can cum 4-5 times a day when I'm with a GF. If I wank, then maybe 10 times. Too bad I can't apply this to gangbang events or other p4p nights. I guess I get nervous. 2-3 times and I'm drained and half impotent.

I'll try to get as many freebies as possible during my stay. If necessary I'll go for p4p and negotiate with the girls. I don't want to spend more than 100 dollars per hour. I wish you all guys did the same to keep the prices down on the market. Stop flashing with your dough.

Girls girls girls, yes we love them.

Muddy7
04-13-12, 09:32
I'm American from NY so plenty of hot pussy around from every part of world, but more costly.How much do you think each of these $300 girls at Rio really cost you?

Don't forget:

The cost of airline ticket,

Rent for your apt in Kiev,

The money you pay for table dances (I assume you want to see their puddy to make sure before you take them home) ,

The money you pay to get in the club and the VIP room,

The cost of their drinks and cigs when they sit with you to talk to you (I assume you get them at least one drink). I know the other night 3 girls sat with me so I can interview them and I paid 730 grivna that night just for drinks.

I would say each girls cost you at least $430 not $300 since it seems you really don't stay long in Kiev.

Is it really worth all the time you spend flying?

And to be honest with you I don't think the RIO girls are that hot, it seems when you travel to Kiev you stay for a short time, I know I don't need 3 hours with the girls because I can't see a girl every night and bang her 2 times every night. 2 pops every night if physically too much.

I don't mind coming to Kiev for Rio once every 18 months but 3-4 times every year is just too much, I don't think the Rio girls are hot enough for me to do this.

BTW- has a good time with Bella, nice looking blonde, nice ass, I would rate her 7. 5.

There was another girl, young girl named Katrin, maybe she was new because I hadn't seen her before, spoke English, she was nice and young I would say probably 20.

Overrated Darina and Lera(nice ass) were there too, couldn't get a chance to talk to Katya

Climaxnow
04-13-12, 13:16
I don't mind coming to Kiev for Rio once every 18 months but 3-4 times every year is just too much, I don't think the Rio girls are hot enough for me to do this.I think most of the frequent travelers to Kiev are trying to cross the threshold into free pussy / girlfriends, something that may not be possible at home. The U. K. Guys have ridiculous amounts of talent at home but still fly out to Kiev.

Gentleman Travel
04-13-12, 16:50
How much do you think each of these $300 girls at Rio really cost you?

Don't forget:

The cost of airline ticket,

Rent for your apt in Kiev,

The money you pay for table dances (I assume you want to see their puddy to make sure before you take them home) ,

The money you pay to get in the club and the VIP room,

The cost of their drinks and cigs when they sit with you to talk to you (I assume you get them at least one drink). I know the other night 3 girls sat with me so I can interview them and I paid 730 grivna that night just for drinks.

I would say each girls cost you at least $430 not $300.Make it more like $500+ per girl, and for some guys only bagging a couple of girls in a week, $1000+.

That is if you are travelling on your own time and your own dime.

Many of the guys here are combining business with pleasure, in which case you only need to factor in the marginal costs (dinners for two, taxis and P4P).

But for someone to travel from the US (or even UK) all the way to Kiev or Moscow, solely for the sake of P4P mongering, it is simply not a good economic deal.

The hourly / nightly costs are similar to what you pay in any major city, although the quality and experience might be better.

Sure it is tougher in the US because of LE and bizarre high-end prices by some stunners and poor service by others.

But invest the same time and effort and money on the home front, and you will find some affordable and attractive gems.

And there are EE beauties filling up the strip clubs and escort agencies of most western cities.

No, the reason to go mongering in Ukraine or Russia is for the unique and exciting experience.

The sheer number of beautiful babes. The open sexuality of the women and the society.

The thrill of the chase. The prospect of scoring a freebie that you never could at home.

Sexual experiences that are rare or difficult to obtain from western P4P.

There are lots of good reasons to monger in Eastern Europe, but straight cost-benefit is rarely one of them.

Uke Boy
04-13-12, 19:03
I just got back from several weeks of monger hell in the KSA. They censor ISG there and I did not have a VPN. And right now I am in monger heaven, Kiev. With Easter this weekend, I will get back to fun and games on Monday.

I went through as many ISG Kiev posts as I could stomach for the last few weeks and found the vast number of them utterly boring and hopeless and worst of all, useless. It is a waste of time to keeping reading the total crap that now dominates the forum. The forum is no longer fun nor interesting.

I will now from time to time check out the forum but posting may be rare. Better to just have my own way of fun and let all you others be led by your nose and wallet to Rio and Gia. More for me, and of course more for those who know the real Kiev like Irish, Cruiser and a few others.

Member #4274
04-13-12, 20:30
I just got back from several weeks of monger hell in the KSA. They censor ISG there and I did not have a VPN. And right now I am in monger heaven, Kiev. With Easter this weekend, I will get back to fun and games on Monday.

I went through as many ISG Kiev posts as I could stomach for the last few weeks and found the vast number of them utterly boring and hopeless and worst of all, useless. It is a waste of time to keeping reading the total crap that now dominates the forum. The forum is no longer fun nor interesting.

I will now from time to time check out the forum but posting may be rare. Better to just have my own way of fun and let all you others be led by your nose and wallet to Rio and Gia. More for me, and of course more for those who know the real Kiev like Irish, Cruiser and a few others.Uke Boy, thats the best post I have seen on this Kiev board in 6 months! Please post your experiences in Kiev. I know I'll read them gladly.

LilJoey
04-14-12, 12:36
How much do you think each of these $300 girls at Rio really cost you? *

Don't forget:

The cost of airline ticket, *

Rent for your apt in Kiev, *

The money you pay for table dances (I assume you want to see their puddy to make sure before you take them home) , *

The money you pay to get in the club and the VIP room, *

The cost of their drinks and cigs when they sit with you to talk to you (I assume you get them at least one drink). I know the other night 3 girls sat with me so I can interview them and I paid 730 grivna that night just for drinks.

I would say each girls cost you at least $430 not $300 since it seems you really don't stay long in Kiev.

Is it really worth all the time you spend flying? *

And to be honest with you I don't think the RIO girls are that hot, it seems when you travel to Kiev you stay for a short time, I know I don't need 3 hours with the girls because I can't see a girl every night and bang her 2 times every night. 2 pops every night if physically too much.

I don't mind coming to Kiev for Rio once every 18 months but 3-4 times every year is just too much, I don't think the Rio girls are hot enough for me to do this.

BTW- has a good time with Bella, nice looking blonde, nice ass, I would rate her 7. 5.

There was another girl, young girl named Katrin, maybe she was new because I hadn't seen her before, spoke English, she was nice and young I would say probably 20.

Overrated Darina and Lera (nice ass) were there too, couldn't get a chance to talk to KatyaMuddy, I haven't commented on your ratings of some of the girls you rated that I know from Rio, because it is a pointless endeavor, and each guy has a subjective view of this topic. To my mind, girls that you have rated 7 or 7. 5 actually deserve an 8 or 8. 5. But this just illustrates that point that it is subjective. *

A much more useful insight that would help us communicate would be to know what you think of the looks of the Working Girls you have met in places like D'lux or Arena *or Buddha Bar or Shooters who are asking $400 or $500 for an hour or two, and sometimes can be negotiated down to $300/2hours (a $150 / hr net price). These are the girls in the regular clubs who are very beautiful and who think that because they are hot stuff they can demand such high prices. Have you spent some time in the regular nightclubs? Have you seen the WG's on offer in the regular nightclubs and what their beauty level is? How do you feel these top level regular club WG's looks compare with the top girls you have seen at Rio? Similar? Or much better? (within your own personal rating system).

My view of it, after I looked in the regular nightclubs several times, is that the beauty level of the top WG's I have seen in the regular clubs is similar to the beauty level of the top girls at Rio. Therefore, I would rather pay the rates at Rio for that level of beauty, than pay the higher rates asked by the top hotties in the regular nightclubs. *

However, if one believes that the hottest WG's in the regular dance clubs are better looking than the top girls at Rio, then maybe there is an argument to make that it might be worth it to pay higher rates of $150 / hr net rate and higher for them.

But, interestingly, there are some recent claims made on this thread that the $300/3hours (a $100 / hr net price) in effect at Rio, is not the lowest price for very hot nightclub WG's (above level 8) that you can see in advance how they look, and that at the regular nightclubs it is possible to negotiate even lower prices with the WG pros or semi *pros. *Now it puzzles me that in this thread over the last year of posts it has pretty much uniformly been reported that prices like $400 or $500 were being demanded in the regular nightclubs, and that they couldn't be negotiated down to as low as $200/2 hours. But this claim of lower prices for WG's in the regular nightclubs was made recently by Cruiser D, a veteran poster with lots of experience, so it cannot be discounted, without more testing and reporting by ISG'ers who know what they are doing. I hope and wish it is true, and not just his memory of prices from a past era, or prices he personally gets from girls he has known for a long time and are in his dauntingly large contact list built up over the years. We need to be talking about prices other ISG'ers should be capable of achieving and reproducing when they go to the regular nightclubs and try to pick up hot WG's. This area needs more reporting.

So Muddy if you're still in Kiev, hit the regular nightclubs a bit, and see if you have any luck in getting to WG's who look better than the 7. 5's you saw at Rio, and if you were able to get prices for three hours of less than $300, or even to get 2 hours/$200, which would also be better than Rio, please report on it. Or*The Knight, or other senior members, perhaps if you go clubbing you can give a recent update on price conditions for WG's in the regular nightclubs.

LJ

Ronaldinjo
04-15-12, 00:18
How much do you think each of these $300 girls at Rio really cost you?Muddy, you didn't see any girls that is at least 8-8. 5 in your taste in Rio? So if no 8 girls in Rio, where are you find all those so called beauties? In mamba?

Me and You
04-15-12, 00:22
From my experience you can find different prices for girls in clubs from 100 $ OR 150 $ 2 hours until 400-500 $ 2 hours. Avoid Dlux and Busha bar and Avalon. Expensive. Go Caribean or Vodka bar. Vodka Bar is a place for students as semi pros who needs some money for life. I got one girl from Vodka Bar 21 blonde an 8. A very GFE dfk BBJ DATY anal CIM. And she stays more than 3 hours for 100 $. And considering udha bar and are that services from girl in Clubs is general is better than Rio. Rio girls in general no DFK no DATY (some or many of them) and sure no cim and anal. So take this consideration. And I am not into3 hours or a night meetings. I like to taste more plates as I can. A 3 hour meeting means one long session. And one hour meeting from other clubs or mamba semi pros (as free lancers girls. They have their own time) is a long session without paying the 300 $ and drinks and private dances and entry and tips. I am not against Rio. I got some girls from there. Just one girl in every visit in Kiev and I go sometimes just for the eye candy. To watch the show and the girls. And some private dances. And this is not bad (not expensive as entertainment). I go Rio but I do not take a girl every time.

More you stay late you have less prices and if you get numbers at night in Clubs and meet during day time you have less prices also from Clubs girls.

Muddy7
04-15-12, 11:28
Muddy, you didn't see any girls that is at least 8-8. 5 in your taste in Rio? So if no 8 girls in Rio, where are you find all those so called beauties? In mamba?Actually the best looking girl I met in my last 2 trips was on mamba.

She did not have a sex ad.

She was very pretty.

FACE: 8.

Body:7.

Personality: 9.

I met her 2 times in my last trip, but I have not been able to meet her in this trip, maybe she has found a boyfriend / sponsor.

She was 19 and a part time actress, very pretty.

When I search mamba I exclude sex ads, I know most of the profiles are fake, if you dont search for sex ads there are alot of 8,9, 10s on mamba with real profiles and photos and there are even more on vkontakte

Ronaldinjo
04-15-12, 12:42
Actually the best looking girl I met in my last 2 trips was on mamba.

She did not have a sex ad.

She was very pretty.

FACE: 8.

Body:7.

Personality: 9.

I met her 2 times in my last trip, but I have not been able to meet her in this trip, maybe she has found a boyfriend / sponsor.

She was 19 and a part time actress, very pretty.

When I search mamba I exclude sex ads, I know most of the profiles are fake, if you don't search for sex ads there are alot of 8, 9.10s on mamba with real profiles and photos and there are even more on vkontakteAgree with you that there are a lot of beuties on mamba, but unfortunately most of them need time and sex isn't guaranteed so its quit risky. There are people who are visiting Kiev only for 2-3 days, so clubs of kind of Rio and buddha bar is best option for them. I'm surprised you didn't notice any pure 8 even (according your taste) in Rio, is it true? Then you must be even more picky than myself. In my previous visit in Kiev been in Rio several times, most of the girls are avarage, but saw there some pure 8th and even one or two pure 8. 5, and believe me, I'm very very picky. Most probably there was a real ebb in your recent visit to Rio. What do you think about it Muddy?

Climaxnow
04-15-12, 14:32
I just got back from several weeks of monger hell in the KSA. They censor ISG there and I did not have a VPN. And right now I am in monger heaven, Kiev. With Easter this weekend, I will get back to fun and games on Monday.

I went through as many ISG Kiev posts as I could stomach for the last few weeks and found the vast number of them utterly boring and hopeless and worst of all, useless. It is a waste of time to keeping reading the total crap that now dominates the forum. The forum is no longer fun nor interesting.

I will now from time to time check out the forum but posting may be rare. Better to just have my own way of fun and let all you others be led by your nose and wallet to Rio and Gia. More for me, and of course more for those who know the real Kiev like Irish, Cruiser and a few others.I see you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

Uke Boy
04-15-12, 19:25
I see you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?I have walking the walk here since 1996 and will continue to do so long after you have left the scene.

I do not need your comments nor anyone else's, neither praise nor criticism bother me.

I have had and will still have have a much better time then 99. 9% of the guys on this forum without the need of Rio, Gia, Buddha and many other rip-off places that have been and are being shilled.

Yours is another one of the inane posts I have read from the last few weeks while I was away and is the reason I don't want to actively participate for now.

Climaxnow
04-15-12, 19:54
I have walking the walk here since 1996 and will continue to do so long after you have left the scene.

I do not need your comments nor anyone else's, neither praise nor criticism bother me.

I have had and will still have have a much better time then 99. 9% of the guys on this forum without the need of Rio, Gia, Buddha and many other rip-off places that have been and are being shilled.

Yours is another one of the inane posts I have read from the last few weeks while I was away and is the reason I don't want to actively participate for now.Yes, of course, so easy of you to down the thread and bring nothing new. I'm just one man here who want's to some day play with the big boy's. Show me the way UB and please, I do not care about the glory days.

LilJoey
04-16-12, 06:40
I wouldn't see an old contact for more than $100.

$200 is still a very achievable rate for me in a night club. YMMV.That's very good to hear. Do you agree with Me and You's recent post about the venues for lower priced nightclub girls? He had written that Caribbean club and Vodka Bar were better for lower prices, and to stay away from D'lux, Buddha Bar and Avalon which have girls demanding the higher prices.

Is there a breakdown possible by club as to where lower prices of $200/2hours are more likely?

$300/2hours is $150 / hr and a little higher priced than the $100 / hr for three hours demanded at Rio, so no bargain unless the girls are really stunning 9's or 10's.

I'm very interested in the possibilities in the nightclubs for prices lower than Rio, as used to be possible with negotiation at RP with very hot girls. Therefore, a $200 outlay for 2 hours would be a significant improvement to the Rio rates, and recommend those nightclubs as the venue of choice. Then the question becomes what is the likelihood of getting a hot girl at a $200/2hours rate, I. E. The efficiency factor.

LilJoey
04-16-12, 07:04
How much do you think each of these $300 girls at Rio really cost you? *

Don't forget:

The cost of airline ticket, *

Rent for your apt in Kiev, *

The money you pay for table dances (I assume you want to see their puddy to make sure before you take them home) , *

The money you pay to get in the club and the VIP room, *

The cost of their drinks and cigs when they sit with you to talk to you (I assume you get them at least one drink). I know the other night 3 girls sat with me so I can interview them and I paid 730 grivna that night just for drinks.

I would say each girls cost you at least $430 not $300 since it seems you really don't stay long in Kiev.

Is it really worth all the time you spend flying? *

And to be honest with you I don't think the RIO girls are that hot, it seems when you travel to Kiev you stay for a short time, I know I don't need 3 hours with the girls because I can't see a girl every night and bang her 2 times every night. 2 pops every night if physically too much.

I don't mind coming to Kiev for Rio once every 18 months but 3-4 times every year is just too much, I don't think the Rio girls are hot enough for me to do this.

BTW- has a good time with Bella, nice looking blonde, nice ass, I would rate her 7. 5.

There was another girl, young girl named Katrin, maybe she was new because I hadn't seen her before, spoke English, she was nice and young I would say probably 20.

Overrated Darina and Lera (nice ass) were there too, couldn't get a chance to talk to Katya*

Muddy, With respect to your question about how travel costs to Kiev affect the real cost of enjoying Kiev's p4p, and the question of whether it is worth it for me to travel to EE for mongering, the short answer is yes, it is worth it for me to come to Kiev because for the most part I time my visits to Kiev to when I will already be in Europe for other reasons. Then I hop over to Kiev for a few days over a weekend. For this reason travel costs are not generally *a significant factor in my decision to come to Kiev for mongering.

However, since it is relevant to any American monger considering a Kiev trip, I will address the question as if I were incurring the travel costs solely for the p4p. Myopinion still is that it is worthwhile to come to Kiev to monger because there is savings in p4p dollars, despite the travel costs. The caveat is that it is only if one intends to have multiple sex sessions (8 or more hours of p4p) with very beautiful young girls. And although this was the subject of prior posts, I will give you my calculations basis for saying that below so you can see this is correct.

However, The truth is that even if it did cost a little more for p4p by coming to Kiev, it would still be worth it because of the kind of experiences you can get in Kiev, which is a direct result of the kind of girls there are in Kiev. Even the stripper girls from Rio, which one might have expected to be more hard core "user" types like their sister strippers world over, have instead mostly given me beautiful GFE experiences. Maybe it's because many of these girls are being recruited more fresh and new to the world of p4p and still in university, and they haven't become jaded yet. Compared to this, the Russian girls I have met in p4p in NY have tended to be more hard core professionals for whom GFE is a thinly veiled effort. And then what can one say of Kiev's semi pros that abound in the nightclubs and for much cheaper prices on mamba and other websites? Many Ukrainian women love sex and love pleasing a man. You guys who have already experienced Kiev, surely have sensed the difference between Ukrainian girls to what's available back home. I come to Kiev because I Iove it there. The girls are great. *And they look beautiful. What more is to be said? So it's worth a premium for a wild sex weekend in Kiev, for sex on a level of experience not available, or easily available, back home.

But the good news is that it does not cost more for p4p because of travel costs. Even with the travel costs included in the calculations, p4p still costs less when going to Kiev. The numbers speak for themselves.

We are all aware that in Kiev the p4p prices are 600 UAH ($75) to 800 UAH ($100) per hour for the most part on mamba or other websites, and it is the commonly held opinion on this forum that girls above an 8 in beauty are possible to find for those rates. Additionally, the same girl will usually discount the price for a multiple hours session, so it is reasonably available to get a 800 UAH ($100) /hr girl to stay 2 hours for 1200 UAH ($150) , or even for the original $100 requested.

The optimal session length: I happen to prefer sessions of at least 90 minutes to 2 hours in general. It allows sufficient time for long leisurely sessions of kissing, oral sex, both BBBJ as well as DATY, and maybe switching into 69, and then various positions for intercourse, all without any feeling of being time*pressured and also leaving time in the beginning and end for washing up. Even at an FKK, where a half hour session is possible, and some guys jump in and get it all done in 30 minutes, I never go for that, and prefer a longer session with the girl of 60 to 90 minutes usually.

Kiev is a destination particularly well suited for multiple hours sessions because of the fact that more hours are usually possible for little or no increase in cost. *

For example, Even at a high priced venue like Rio, while a standard 3 hour session is $300; nevertheless an all night session of up to 8 hours (depending on how many hours you leave the club before the date end time, usually 5am) , *is $400, a marginal increase of merely $100 in the fee, resulting in a net rate of ($400/8hrs =) $50 / hour. *Similarly, girls from mamba. Ru asking $100 / hr, will often stay 2 hours for little or no increase in fee, and to expect $150 to be adequate for 2 hours is a reasonable assumption in Kiev, reducing the net rate to $75 / hr.

TRAVEL COSTS: I think that for a four night long weekend visit to Kiev from NYC, that between flight costs and accommodations for 4 nights, a reasonable number to use is $1200 for travel costs. (NY to Kiev: Flights are between $600's to $800's depending on season, and luxury apartment accommodations are available in Kiev for between $100-$130 / night, and less fancy for *less.)

So putting all the above together means that*If a guy went to Kiev for a four night weekend and had 4 mamba girls that he managed to find on a beauty level of 8 and above for two hours each night at $150 each night, that would total up as follows: * $1200 (travel costs) plus $600 (p4p costs) *equals a total of $1800/8 hours p4p, or a net rate of $225 / hour.

Any additional 2 hour sessions with beautiful Kiev girls one has in addition to the four sessions on each of the four nights of his stay, would further reduce the net rate paid for p4p. *

For example, let's say our hypothetical monger from NY is frisky during the daytime and adds four 2 hour daytime sessions at the same rate (another $600 in P4p costs) , the total outlay would be $1200 (travel costs) + $1200 (p4p costs) = $2400/16 hrs = $150 / hr net rate for p4p.

Even a guy going to Rio and taking out girls for the $300/3 hTour dates on each night of a four night weekend, and maybe doing a duo date with two girls on one of those nights (5 girls total) would be spending $1200 (travel costs) + $1500 (p4p girl costs) + $400 (Rio club costs 4 nights) = $3100/15 hours p4p = $206 / hr net p4p costs.

So, Muddy, you can see after you crunch the numbers, and include $1200 in travel costs, as well as $100 / night in club expenses, that in a short four day weekend which includes taking out a Rio girl each of the four nights, as well as a duo on one of the nights (15 hours of escort time) , would result in a net rate of only $206 / hr. *

Obviously, to have the same number of hours of sessions in NY, with girls on the same high level of beauty and service, would cost much more.

NY P4P COSTS: What are the costs for p4p in NY for girls on the level of beauty and service *of the Kiev girls we are speaking of. 8's and above, at the current time?

EROS. COM: one of the major internet escort agency advertising websites. If you will look on a website like www.eros.com In the NY section, you will see that currently, hot looking girls are placing ads for $400 USD (just search "400" and see what comes up. There may be some ads for $350 but any lower prices than 400 usually brings up ads for transsexuals ("TS") mostly). *With $400 girls, Two hours would be $800, but from experience, often *they can be negotiated to agree to $700/2hours. For 3 hours, the fee would likely be between $900 to $1000. Of course there are many hot girl ads for hourly rates higher than 400, but 400 seems to be the base rate for a hot girl on Eros. Com.

Another advertisement source would be backpage. Com where many independents advertise. In the NY section you will see ads for $200 or $250 or $300. These are fake picture ads and you never know what will be waiting for you in terms of looks or service. It's a trial and error process. There are also asian massage spas where happy ending is possible, as well as full service Korean spas where the price is $200 / hr, but you have to like the petite Korean girls. *There are also Russian Massage parlors advertising on backpage, but it is bodywork and happy ending, in apartments, but some FS may be available. I've just begun investigating the potential of these venues, but very doubtful anything on a beauty level of the girls in Kiev of 8's and above is available in such apartments.

There are a few other legitimate "true picture" agencies that have ads for girls in the $350 to $400 to $500 range. *

There are also high end agencies that have starting prices at $600 / hr going up to $1200 / hr. Or higher. They have the websites with pics of girls on a high EE level of what we might see in Kiev, but the pics are likely fake also. *

That's more or less the NY internet based market. A newbie coming to NY would probably find the agencies and types of websites I referred to above.

Streetwalkers near the major midtown hotels or in certain bars still operate, but I'm not into that scene.

So it's fair to say that, avoiding the high end agencies whose prices are really high, the best price one could get for girls on a high beauty level of 8+ looking like the girls in Kiev would be the Russian girls advertising on The internet for $400 / hr on Eros. Com. That would be $800/2hours, which can usually be negotiated to $700/2hours, and a 3hour date (like with girls from Rio in Kiev) would be $1000, a net hourly rate of $333 / hr, which is much higher than Kiev rates.

[For guys originating in London, www.londonescortguide.com Is indicative of the prices for hot EE girls in London, which is in the 150 GBP ($237 USD) to 180 GBP ($285 USD) range. (On the adultwork website cheaper prices of 100 GBP ($158 USD) are possible for decent looking girl with much effort and investigation, but unlikely with girls on a beauty level equivalent to the girls in Kiev.) Three hours at London p4p rates, are also more costly than the net hourly rate one *would pay in Kiev, especially for mamba girls, even including travel costs, for a similar number of hours. The British mongers have it even better because of much lower travel costs to Kiev. ]

Kiev remains a very viable mongering destination for cheaper p4p than can be had at home in NY for girls on a similar very high level of beauty and service.

The real question is whether the NY'er should head to the Frankfurt FKK's or to Kiev for the "best" experience? I have gone back and forth on this question and have posted my thoughts and observations. I cannot decide it. They are each good for different things. So I continue to go to both.

Happy Mongering.

LJ

Jojosun
04-16-12, 10:56
I'm very interested in the possibilities in the nightclubs for prices lower than Rio, as used to be possible with negotiation at RP with very hot girls. Therefore, a $200 outlay for 2 hours would be a significant improvement to the Rio rates, and recommend those nightclubs as the venue of choice. Then the question becomes what is the likelihood of getting a hot girl at a $200/2hours rate, I. E. The efficiency factor..

I always chatted with girls at RP, when I made it very obvious to them that I wasn't interested in a take out on that night.

Got their numbers, and told them I like to see them next day, late afternoon, or early evening.

Price US$100 / an hour. Max.

In fact a lot of girls told me that they prefer it this way. So do I.

Try it in other clubs, it will work.

Happy Hour Prices.

I apply the same principle when going shopping for Food in supermarkets. I never shop there, when feeling Hungry.

After all Sex is Food.

SooNice
04-20-12, 00:36
- BEST one 0674438285: on Kripynysto'koho str 4. Parralel to bessarabska: 1000 griv or 125 $ for hour but you can find top girls (7-8-9) like Gennia (tall blonde with Crystal blue eyes and nice tits and ass) or Ivanna (brunnette with blue eyes) or Vlada or Anfisa. 1000 is good deal as you don't have to pay taxi for girl. They will bring the girl to you and take her back with their own taxis in case you want her in your appartment (I prefer this option) or you can stay with the girl at the place as they have rooms. And no extras expenses drinks and so. As in clubs or in Rio.

Good luck.Failed big time today. I made sure to have over 15 numbers to call when I arrived today. No answers, busy tone. Etc etc. One girl came to the hotel but wanted me to come out and once I came out she left. I look good so it can't be because of uglyness.

Fuck. I'm furious. Tomorrow I will go to a saloon and later a club round. I can't find the Kripynysto'koho str 4 on google maps. Can anyone advise please.

Cheers

Muddy7
04-20-12, 09:35
Lera and Katya.

I noticed they always come and dance on stage in the VIP at the same time.

I know Lera doesn't let you do DATY and doesn't dfk or do BBBJ from liljoey posts, its ok she has a nice ass and nice thighs but thats about it, I'm not interested in taking her home. She did a private dance for me, her pussy is average

I talked to Katya last night, she is cute, and she told me she also doesn't do DATY or BBBJ, she did a private dance for me she has a nice young pussy.

Katya said she is going to NY for 10 days.

When you go to Rio if BBBJ and DATY are what you are looking for you should make sure to ask the dancer before you take her home if you don't want to be disappointed.

I was there early last night at 21:00 and there was not room in the VIP, has to sit and wait for an hour and while I was upstairs by the bar I saw a good looking dancer named Ira, I don't know why she wasnt in the VIP, she looked better than 80% of the girls in the VIP, had a good time with her

Not too many pretty girls in the vip last night... Katya, Zlatta, young Katrin, and another girl I didnt get her name

Ronaldinjo
04-20-12, 09:54
Lera and Katya.

I noticed they always come and dance on stage in the VIP at the same time.

I know Lera doesn't let you do DATY and doesn't dfk or do BBBJ from liljoey posts, its ok she has a nice ass and nice thighs but thats about it, I'm not interested in taking her home.

I talked to Katya last night, she is cute, and she told me she also doesn't do DATY or BBBJ, she did a private dance for me she has a nice young pussy.

Katya said she is going to NY for 10 days.

When you go to Rio if BBBJ and DATY are what you are looking for you should make sure to ask the dancer before you take her home if you don't want to be disappointed.

I was there early last night at 21:00 and there was not room in the VIP, has to sit and wait for an hour and while I was upstairs by the bar I saw a good looking dancer named Ira, I don't know why she wasnt in the VIP, she looked better than 80% of the girls in the VIP, had a good time with her.

Not too many pretty girls in the VIP last night. Katya, Zlatta, young Katrin, and another girl I didn't get her nameHello Muddy, in your opinion, who is the best looking girl in Rio at the moment? Katya? How is she compared to others? Do you know when exactly she is traveling to new york and when she is back?

Blonde Addict
04-21-12, 08:56
Well I had been here 10 years ago when married and I went the GIA route. This time I am divorced and decided to mine the single date sites first like ukrianedate. Com and wonderfulove. Ru maybe looking for something serious. I had 25 beautiful prospects, some in the 10 category. I stayed at Kiev apartments in the center, great location, but there is one problem I shall tell you about later.

Ukraine now is just paranoid about sexual tourism, Most of the women where constantly badgering me before the date that I wasnt looking for sex. Of course I am but as part of a GFE with greater possbilities. So far in 1 week 6 actual date- no sex generated from them, althouhg I think 2 could have gone that way but I cut it off due to lack of attraction. 4 no shows, and I robbery. Briefly she wanted me to wire money for her visit and then no showed, I had her banned from the website after that.

So needles to say after several frustrating days I turned to the pro route. I went to Gia. Oredered chesslava and she looks like her pics, she is 1 year older but insignificant. She war an 8 with reallt good servie, although no BBBJ nor kissing as promised on the website, I had her for 3 hours for $300, she was surprised about the price and I had to show her the website. I fucked the hell out of her and she begged me not to fuck her continuosly for 3 hours, she came 4 times (or so she said, you can't be sure) and I sent her home.

The next night I ordered kira who also was an 8 also looks like her pics, and paid $200 for a hour. She came twice (same disclaimer) and the service was similar to chetslava only there was a little kissing.

Then I tired mamba. Ru, you have to sign up. There where quite a few working girls there, the economy has gotten worse here, so more independents, and cheaper. Some of the profiles looked very good, but only oreder illona 19 year old about an 8 1/2, paid $100, she said she doesn't come with clients, a ltille kissing but no bbby overall goood service tho, a better deal than GIA.

Following night tried Rio. Lots of 8's and 9's but I was not feeling any special connection, and for those prices, I want more than just routine servie so I passed.

Last night tried the singles clubs, went to arena first, I look at the number of single girls, amybe 10 or so take a quick count of the ratio, (which was bad) and see if I cna make any eye contact or go over and say hello and see if I get a response, well I could quickly see ther was not much action and no pros here so went on. Right near there is strip club solid gold, so I checked it out, about 10 girls max a about an 8 with Rio prices, so I would skip it and left.

Now on to dlux, a ltiile better than arena, but no pros and no obvious action, then on to shooter, smaller club fwere people, but much better ratio. I should say that I did get some indications of interest here and less but at other clubs, but no one that I was that interested in (I am very picky, won't wleep with les than a 8 even for free) I hung longer here, but could see thing where not moving in the righ direction so went to buhda bar. Here there where only apparent pors, but there where 2 9's and of course they wanted $300. One was 20, blonde, nice body, really beautiful, my type, name missha, so I finally decided to spring for the money, it was getting late on Friday, she promised 2 or 3 pops and delivered. She was my best deecision this week, she gave m2 BBBJ w cim, along with alot of sex and she had 3 orgarsm (same discalimer)

Now some other general information about Kiev, most people now speak some english, it is nice to know a few Russian phrases when you are I the market and such but they have improved drastiically in the last 10 years.

One fianl note. Your biggest enemy here are the police. They are very corrupt here. I am not in the habit of carrying my paassport everywhere, but they use not having that as an excuse to shake you down and threaten to bring you to police department and stay overnight. Once they shook me down for 500 gringaa, the other time $200 right outside of my apartment when I was steppein out to pay for the taxi of WG! I hear if you just say go ahead and take me there they will back down but I hear in the last 3 years this has gotten very bad, I am here another week and then on to russia wait forr more reports!

Ronaldinjo
04-21-12, 12:49
Lera and Katya.

I noticed they always come and dance on stage in the VIP at the same time.

I know Lera doesn't let you do DATY and doesn't dfk or do BBBJ from liljoey posts, its ok she has a nice ass and nice thighs but thats about it, I'm not interested in taking her home. She did a private dance for me, her pussy is average.

I talked to Katya last night, she is cute, and she told me she also doesn't do DATY or BBBJ, she did a private dance for me she has a nice young pussy.

Katya said she is going to NY for 10 days.

When you go to Rio if BBBJ and DATY are what you are looking for you should make sure to ask the dancer before you take her home if you don't want to be disappointed.

I was there early last night at 21:00 and there was not room in the VIP, has to sit and wait for an hour and while I was upstairs by the bar I saw a good looking dancer named Ira, I don't know why she wasnt in the VIP, she looked better than 80% of the girls in the VIP, had a good time with her.

Not too many pretty girls in the VIP last night. Katya, Zlatta, young Katrin, and another girl I didn't get her nameHello muddy, in your opinion, what the reason for ebb in Rio at the moment? Exams? Who is the best looking girl in Rio at the moment? Katya? How is she compared to others? Do you know when exactly she is traveling to new york and when she is back? Thank you for information

Ronaldinjo
04-21-12, 17:13
Well I had been here 10 years ago when married and I went the GIA route. This time I am divorced and decided to mine the single date sites first like ukrianedate. Com and wonderfulove. Ru maybe looking for something serious. I had 25 beautiful prospects, some in the 10 category. I stayed at Kiev apartments in the center, great location, but there is one problem I shall tell you about later.

Ukraine now is just paranoid about sexual tourism, Most of the women where constantly badgering me before the date that I wasnt looking for sex. Of course I am but as part of a GFE with greater possbilities. So far in 1 week 6 actual date- no sex generated from them, althouhg I think 2 could have gone that way but I cut it off due to lack of attraction. 4 no shows, and I robbery. Briefly she wanted me to wire money for her visit and then no showed, I had her banned from the website after that.

So needles to say after several frustrating days I turned to the pro route. I went to Gia. Oredered chesslava and she looks like her pics, she is 1 year older but insignificant. She war an 8 with reallt good servie, although no BBBJ nor kissing as promised on the website, I had her for 3 hours for $300, she was surprised about the price and I had to show her the website. I fucked the hell out of her and she begged me not to fuck her continuosly for 3 hours, she came 4 times (or so she said, you can't be sure) and I sent her home.

The next night I ordered kira who also was an 8 also looks like her pics, and paid $200 for a hour. She came twice (same disclaimer) and the service was similar to chetslava only there was a little kissing.

Then I tired mamba. Ru, you have to sign up. There where quite a few working girls there, the economy has gotten worse here, so more independents, and cheaper. Some of the profiles looked very good, but only oreder illona 19 year old about an 8 1/2, paid $100, she said she doesn't come with clients, a ltille kissing but no bbby overall goood service tho, a better deal than GIA.

Following night tried Rio. Lots of 8's and 9's but I was not feeling any special connection, and for those prices, I want more than just routine servie so I passed.

Last night tried the singles clubs, went to arena first, I look at the number of single girls, amybe 10 or so take a quick count of the ratio, (which was bad) and see if I cna make any eye contact or go over and say hello and see if I get a response, well I could quickly see ther was not much action and no pros here so went on. Right near there is strip club solid gold, so I checked it out, about 10 girls max a about an 8 with Rio prices, so I would skip it and left.

Now on to dlux, a ltiile better than arena, but no pros and no obvious action, then on to shooter, smaller club fwere people, but much better ratio. I should say that I did get some indications of interest here and less but at other clubs, but no one that I was that interested in (I am very picky, won't wleep with les than a 8 even for free) I hung longer here, but could see thing where not moving in the righ direction so went to buhda bar. Here there where only apparent pors, but there where 2 9's and of course they wanted $300. One was 20, blonde, nice body, really beautiful, my type, name missha, so I finally decided to spring for the money, it was getting late on Friday, she promised 2 or 3 pops and delivered. She was my best deecision this week, she gave m2 BBBJ w cim, along with alot of sex and she had 3 orgarsm (same discalimer)

Now some other general information about Kiev, most people now speak some english, it is nice to know a few Russian phrases when you are I the market and such but they have improved drastiically in the last 10 years.

One fianl note. Your biggest enemy here are the police. They are very corrupt here. I am not in the habit of carrying my paassport everywhere, but they use not having that as an excuse to shake you down and threaten to bring you to police department and stay overnight. Once they shook me down for 500 gringaa, the other time $200 right outside of my apartment when I was steppein out to pay for the taxi of WG! I hear if you just say go ahead and take me there they will back down but I hear in the last 3 years this has gotten very bad, I am here another week and then on to russia wait forr more reports!Hello blond addict, really sorry about what have happend to you with police. It should be a lesson to all of us. Where did you rent the appartment that pollice robed you in such nasty way? In maidan / kreshatik? Did you see the police when taxi approached your flat? And could you share please the profile of Ilona from mamba? (if you found a decent cheek there it could make our life easier and less time consuming).

Thank you.

Muddy7
04-21-12, 17:48
Hello muddy, in your opinion, what the reason for ebb in Rio at the moment? Exams? Who is the best looking girl in Rio at the moment? Katya? How is she compared to others? Do you know when exactly she is traveling to new york and when she is back? Thank you for informationNo, its not the exams. I was there last October too and I didn't see many good looking girls.

My thoughts:

1- Rio is way overrated.

2- I think its crazy for anyone to get on the plane for over 24 hours (12 hours each way) and travel to Kiev fpr 4-5 days just for RIO, LOL.

So far I have seen only one girl at Rio that I can rate 8 or higher.

Outside the VIP its hard to find any good looking girls.

In the VIP room I see maybe 7 worthy of taking home, but some of them don't go home with guys maybe because they are new. And I doubt any of the girls there do BBBJ maybe if you offer them more money they will.

I mean a girl like Darina, charges $500, she does not have a pretty face and she does not do BBBJ or let you do DATY, I think you can find better looking girls than her in the US or Europe for $500, same with Lera.

RIO is overrated big time.

As for the rest of your questions I don't have time pal.

It seems you are only here to ask questions.

If you take any of these girls home make sure to ask them about their services and makes sure to let them know $300 is for 3 hours

I met a great looking girl, a waitress in restu. i was going to almost everyday for lunch, prettier face than any of the dancers at RIO, I am here 10 more days and i think its best for me to spend time with her than waste my time at RIO

Ronaldinjo
04-21-12, 18:10
No, its not the exams. I was there last October too and I didn't see many good looking girls.

My thoughts:

1- Rio is way overrated.

2- I think its crazy for anyone to get on the plane for over 24 hours (12 hours each way) and travel to Kiev fpr 4-5 days just for RIO, LOL.

So far I have seen only one girl at Rio that I can rate 8 or higher.

Outside the VIP its hard to find any good looking girls.

In the VIP room I see maybe 7 worthy of taking home, but some of them don't go home with guys maybe because they are new. And I doubt any of the girls there do BBBJ maybe if you offer them more money they will.

I mean a girl like Darina, charges $500, she does not have a pretty face and she does not do BBBJ or let you do DATY, I think you can find better looking girls than her in the US or Europe for $500, same with Lera.

RIO is overrated big time.

As for Katya, why do you ask you live in Europe? I asked her did she get Visa? She said No, so I don't know how she is traveling there I didn't ask, I don't care, girls bullshit alot sometimes.

As for the rest of your questions I don't have time pal.

It seems you are only here to ask questions.

If you take any of these girls home make sure to ask them about their services and makes sure to let them know $300 is for 3 hours.

I met a great looking girl, a waitress in restu. I was going to almost everyday for lunch, prettier than any of the dancers at RIO, I am here 10 more days and I think its best for me to spend time with her than waste my time at RIOThanks Muddy, and I'm not here to just ask questions. I have been in Kiev some mounthes ago and I posted most of my expiriances in the thread, you are welcome to make a glance. I'm planning to visit Kiev in middle of may, so as soon as I'm back I will post all my expiriances about mamba, strip clubs and. Before my travel I would like to gather all possible information and not to make same mistakes like last time in Kiev. About Rio you are wright, as I mentioned most of the girls I would rate 6 and below, but I saw at least several 8 and one 8. 5. Who is the lucky girl you would rate as 8? (best looking there according to your standart). Could you name 3 best Rio girls?

Thank you and with respect, Ronaldinjo

LilJoey
04-21-12, 20:59
Good report BA. Playing the long game with non-P4P girls is definitely a lottery, but it basically comes down to showing them that you're serious and not just around to get laid once or twice. Of course you can get lucky and meet a girl who just wants to get screwed.

2) Semi P4P bars. D'Lux, which is my personal favourite stomping ground, Barsky, Shooters, Caribbean club. D'Lux is obviously crazy expensive, but the girls are better and cheaper than Rio.For the sake of accuracy, could you reference your prior posts where you reported taking out a hot p4p girl from "D'lux, your personal favorite stomping ground" for a price that was "crazy expensive" but at the same time "cheaper than Rio"?

Last time I was in D'lux the girls were asking $400 or $500, and could be negotiated down to maybe $300. But that was for AN HOUR, or maybe up to 2 hours. That's way more expensive than Rio where the price is fixed at $100 / hr rate with a 3 hour minimum ($300/3hrs). So I understand your statement that the girls from D'lux are "crazy expensive", but not your reference to "cheaper than Rio". Can you clarify? Do you have prior posts reporting this? I have keen interest in the true facts about the prices in the nightclubs. I really enjoyed the environment at D'lux, but rejected it as a mongering venue because of the crazy high prices the girls there were asking. So for the sake of accuracy, please clarify the actual facts you are reporting.

Muddy7
04-22-12, 10:19
Thanks Muddy, and I'm not here to just ask questions. I have been in Kiev some mounthes ago and I posted most of my expiriances in the thread, you are welcome to make a glance. I'm planning to visit Kiev in middle of may, so as soon as I'm back I will post all my expiriances about mamba, strip clubs and. Before my travel I would like to gather all possible information and not to make same mistakes like last time in Kiev. About Rio you are wright, as I mentioned most of the girls I would rate 6 and below, but I saw at least several 8 and one 8. 5. Who is the lucky girl you would rate as 8? (best looking there according to your standart). Could you name 3 best Rio girls?

Thank you and with respect, RonaldinjoI would say Leya (or Leah) , I give her 8. 5, but she did not speak English, and she did not go out with guys, I saw her there only 2 times, pretty girl.

Best tits: Sohia, nice attitude.

Best tights: Zlatta (she doesn't leave the club with guys)

Prettiest face: I like blonds but there was something about Rosa (dark hair) , she does not dance in the VIP and her body is not an 8 by any means but I had a great time with her, she is prettier than Marina in the VIP

CallSign Papa
04-22-12, 19:47
For the sake of accuracy, could you reference your prior posts where you reported taking out a hot p4p girl from "D'lux, your personal favorite stomping ground" for a price that was "crazy expensive" but at the same time "cheaper than Rio"?

Because I'm assuming that you're genuinely after information on D'Lux and not questioning the veracity of my posts, Ill humour you. Search for post #8664 (sorry, don't know how to link it) , this is the last post I talk specifically about prices for a girl I took from there.

Firstly, when I said crazy expensive, I actually meant the entry and the drinks.

Of course, the girls in D'Lux also always push their luck, why wouldn't they, they're mostly 8's and 9's. But if you can converse in basic conversational Russian that changes things immediately. It means you're starting serious negotiations at 300 and not 500. I always make sure we're having a fun conversation before I talk about prices. If a girl is cold and withdrawn in the bar, chances are she'll be the same in an apartment.

I've taken 5-6 girls from D'Lux, the most expensive was 300 but she was stunning and she stayed till the next morning, but was pretty mechanic. The majority of the rest were around 250 (some including taxi, some not) but I don't think I'd get anyone decent for that price on a Saturday night. Last time I was there was early March, I can't believe prices have gone up that much since then.

So considering Rio is 300, for me it's a consistently cheaper to go to D'Lux (where I prefer the ambience and music).

Ronaldinjo
04-22-12, 20:30
Because I'm assuming that you're genuinely after information on D'Lux and not questioning the veracity of my posts, Ill humour you. Search for post #8664 (sorry, don't know how to link it) , this is the last post I talk specifically about prices for a girl I took from there.

Firstly, when I said crazy expensive, I actually meant the entry and the drinks.

Of course, the girls in D'Lux also always push their luck, why wouldn't they, they're mostly 8's and 9's. But if you can converse in basic conversational Russian that changes things immediately. It means you're starting serious negotiations at 300 and not 500. I always make sure we're having a fun conversation before I talk about prices. If a girl is cold and withdrawn in the bar, chances are she'll be the same in an apartment.

I've taken 5-6 girls from D'Lux, the most expensive was 300 but she was stunning and she stayed till the next morning, but was pretty mechanic. The majority of the rest were around 250 (some including taxi, some not) but I don't think I'd get anyone decent for that price on a Saturday night. Last time I was there was early March, I can't believe prices have gone up that much since then.

So considering Rio is 300, for me it's a consistently cheaper to go to D'Lux (where I prefer the ambience and music).Papa, what is best time of the day and day of the week for takeout from delux? How do you recognise working girls there? (last time I had difficulties in this) Lj, do you think that there are week days in Rio, compared to good days, or its arbitrary? (for example Sunday is week and Friday is good) or it doesn't metter?

Member #4491
04-22-12, 21:05
Will not report details on Kiev since most has been said 1000 times. A fun city with endless potential. For me the highlights in terms of clubs was Vodka bar and Shooters. Partied hard with some new-found ISG brothers, and made contact with a handful of adorable young girls. Two I keep in touch with via SMS and others seems to passed me onto the ignore list. To hang out at strip clubs or a place with strictly P4P is fun for about five minutes. Did not visit Rio but I can imagine it is the same deal. I can only back up the advice to leave your imagined comfort zone and join the real Kiev. As we say in fishing: it is not what you catch, it is how you catch it. And anyone that believes there is a strict correlation between looks and price is a sucker in my not so humble opinion.

I do not like to quantify sex in terms of how much I pay per minute or orgasm, but the sex I had that was not free, has costed from less than 40 USD per hour, to a maximum of 750 grivnas per hour to a 22 year old blond with dog breath. But I came in her ass twice, and she barely did let go of my cock for the 1, 5 hours she spent in my apartment. Strong hands. LOL. Have some profiles / numbers I can share to deserving ISG members that I know something about or that knows my buddies here on ISG. Better share a ho with a friend than a stranger, but the cheap f*cks that never share more than their bragging can do their own research. Blink. You know who you are.

Kharkiv suits me even better than Kyiv, but that is another story and thread.

Barba

Cruiser D
04-22-12, 21:15
I know, it's crazy isn't it?

It's like the people who only talk about Rio. .


Hello again Mohab. Interestingly enough, as I write this, I am sitting on the plane getting ready for take off to Frankfurt, where I will spend the weekend at Oase and Palace, and Sunday go to London for 1 night. My Kiev visit was earlier in the month before the holiday. Mohab, why would you restrict yourself in Kiev in such a way? It makes no sense. If you finally have the visit to Kiev planned, do it the right way and give it your best shot. There is plenty oh good advice on this thread on how to do it. The prices are much cheaper than in FKK-land, and the girls are beautiful in Kiev. Do your advance homework on mamba. Ru, get a bunch of numbers, schedule a lot of meetings, and hit the clubs in the evening, and also do some massage salons in the day. You CAN do it all. So why not?

LJ

LilJoey
04-22-12, 21:20
Because I'm assuming that you're genuinely after information on D'Lux and not questioning the veracity of my posts, Ill humour you. Search for post #8664 (sorry, don't know how to link it) , this is the last post I talk specifically about prices for a girl I took from there.

Firstly, when I said crazy expensive, I actually meant the entry and the drinks.

Of course, the girls in D'Lux also always push their luck, why wouldn't they, they're mostly 8's and 9's. But if you can converse in basic conversational Russian that changes things immediately. It means you're starting serious negotiations at 300 and not 500. I always make sure we're having a fun conversation before I talk about prices. If a girl is cold and withdrawn in the bar, chances are she'll be the same in an apartment.

I've taken 5-6 girls from D'Lux, the most expensive was 300 but she was stunning and she stayed till the next morning, but was pretty mechanic. The majority of the rest were around 250 (some including taxi, some not) but I don't think I'd get anyone decent for that price on a Saturday night. Last time I was there was early March, I can't believe prices have gone up that much since then.

So considering Rio is 300, for me it's a consistently cheaper to go to D'Lux (where I prefer the ambience and music).I very much enjoyed the DJ and the music and the vibe at D'Lux, which is why I asked you about it. When you say you took girls out of D'Lux for 250 or 300, is that for 2 hours or 3 hours? If you meant 2 hours with the D'lux girls, you need to calculate the comparison to Rio to account for the additional hour you get at Rio which has a 3 hour date minimum. $250/2 hours is $125 / hour. It's not really cheaper than Rio then. But on the other hand it's close enough to make it an option to consider instead of Rio, especially if one likes the dance club ambience.

Do you think guys who can not speak Russian have a chance of pulling a hottie from D'lux at $250/2hours or less?

LJ

Cruiser D
04-22-12, 21:30
Stay away from Buddha Bar, all the rest are good.


That's very good to hear. Do you agree with Me and You's recent post about the venues for lower priced nightclub girls? He had written that Caribbean club and Vodka Bar were better for lower prices, and to stay away from D'lux, Buddha Bar and Avalon which have girls demanding the higher prices.

Is there a breakdown possible by club as to where lower prices of $200/2hours are more likely?

$300/2hours is $150 / hr and a little higher priced than the $100 / hr for three hours demanded at Rio, so no bargain unless the girls are really stunning 9's or 10's.

I'm very interested in the possibilities in the nightclubs for prices lower than Rio, as used to be possible with negotiation at RP with very hot girls. Therefore, a $200 outlay for 2 hours would be a significant improvement to the Rio rates, and recommend those nightclubs as the venue of choice. Then the question becomes what is the likelihood of getting a hot girl at a $200/2hours rate, I. E. The efficiency factor.

Member #4491
04-23-12, 00:13
I have keen interest in the true facts about the prices in the nightclubs.Believe it or not LJ, there are actually some girls with the true price of zero USD. You just have to believe in it a bit.

One solid advice I can give you after my few hours in Kiev is to go to Vodka bar, dance a bit and talk a bit, and you will see that there are no fixed pricing in the sense that is often discussed here.

I have to add that all these discussions in this thread about exact grading of girls looks and performance is misleading in my opinion. Some want blonds and other wants midgets. Sex is not a performance but a cooperation. One of my sweetest girlfriends ever, had fucked about 8000 guys before me. I was naive and treated her like I always treated girls back then, and eventually we got some sort of relation. She filled a hole in me and I filled all her holes several times.

These grades are grades of yourself just as much as of her. Fake moans and fake multiple orgasms is still just fake, but sometimes this is obviously what guys want; hence rendering that girl an 8, 6 or whatever.

Sexual pleasure can come from anything. Acting, domination, pissing in a glass, contact, curing loneliness, make us feel appreciated, etc. A shitty attitude is easily described and saggy tits as well but how do you truly numerically grade a hand job or a kissing experience? Or the size of a vagina? This quantification paranoia in this thread is projected insecurities. People trying to build imaginary control systems but just come further and further away from the target of getting out there and putting in some dynamic and associative field work. UkeBoy touch it in his posts. Roll the dice and forget the numbers and fact sheets. It never turns out as we planned anyway, does it? It is OK to be scared. There is no real cure to it other than accepting that all the facts and analyzes in the world will still make us 14 year old when that 180 cm long blond dream girl walks up to us. At least unless we have embraced the fact that you as a man do not need to impress her (but rather acknowledged her).

If it would stop at these control freak tendencies I would not be bitching now. But it does not. Maybe I do the same thing and people get's just as bored from my digestions as I get from reading the latest analyze of the correct rate for anal sex or the "right way" to visit Rio. We have all met the guy that is reselling the BMW over and over to himself, when he is in fact (secretly) in doubt if it was such a f*cking great deal after all. Opinions are not truths, even if we express them over and over again. They merely reflect what we CAN and DARE to contemplate as our own subjective guidelines. By all means share them, but leave the illusion that you are painting a picture that has some logical validity on a greater scale. It makes sense to you. Today I filled my new-found girlfriends pussy with a huge 24 hour load and watched my sperm drip out of her small vagina. It made her feel shy. Today I would not want to trade this for "five girls in a day" or a stop over in Germany to be on the safe side of "sufficient amount of sex" on my latest wh*ring trip. Neither can I advertise that it is the most logical and sane thing to do and that you must all do this in order to really have had a successful trip. It was right today, for me. Case closed.

I am learning to love these Ukrainian girls. Ideal women in so many ways, for me. Thank you all for posting about the upcoming football event, motivating me to get my ass over here finally. It is a great feeling to fall for a country and for a girl (or five). Not hard to understand why some guys just get stuck here for years. If I could, I would as well.

B.

Nmlfree
04-23-12, 01:42
Does anyone know if Erika is still at Rio? I'm travelling to Kiev in a week or so. Last time I was there, I wanted to bang her but she speaked no english at all. When I called her at the table, I understood something like " I want to make small talk first, go to karaoke then we fuck bla bla". I was like "naaa, no fkin way" LOL. Now that I speak some Russian, it shouldn't be so akward. If you have been with her, can you confirm if the service is good?

Uke Boy
04-23-12, 12:27
Lj is the only one who have been there. Did someone else been there? How is the quality there, is it possible to shag some 9s (real 9s) there? Lj, what do you think?Ronaldinjo, what I think is that you are becoming a huge pain in the ass with your constant barrage of ultimately senseless and useless questions.

A 9 for you could well be a 3 for me. Whoever is at a club dancing today may well not be there when, or if, you come to Kiev. Answers to all these questions are valid for today only. Their significance usually expires after 24 hours.

I guess you just don't get it. Come to Kiev but don't over plan or try to micromanage your visit in advance down to the last second. It is a impractical effort since things will change frequently and unexpectedly if you get your feet on the ground here.

It is in the adventure and the experiences you get here, good as well as bad, that make this an interesting place for me. The winner here will always be the guy who is flexible and who can will adapt to the constantly changing events that will occur every single day.

Otherwise, just go to Rio and do take-out or call Gia. Both are the last resort for the terminally clueless here.

CallSign Papa
04-23-12, 18:38
I very much enjoyed the DJ and the music and the vibe at D'Lux, which is why I asked you about it. When you say you took girls out of D'Lux for 250 or 300, is that for 2 hours or 3 hours? If you meant 2 hours with the D'lux girls, you need to calculate the comparison to Rio to account for the additional hour you get at Rio which has a 3 hour date minimum. $250/2 hours is $125 / hour. It's not really cheaper than Rio then. But on the other hand it's close enough to make it an option to consider instead of Rio, especially if one likes the dance club ambience.

Do you think guys who can not speak Russian have a chance of pulling a hottie from D'lux at $250/2hours or less?

LJI completely agree about the DJs there. With regards to the girls, if I recall correctly, only 1 girl was for 2 hours, the rest were "do utro", which was anything from 6am to the next afternoon (if I offered lunch somewhere nice). Just to be clear, I'm not saying D'Lux is the best place to pick up a girl, it's just my favourite place to hang out (closely followed by the Golden Gate pub if the footballs on).

As for speaking Russian, I really couldn't say. It helps me, but I guess if you're younger, better looking, more charming, then language wouldn't make that much of a difference. Maybe if you're in town when I'm there (end of May) , we'll take a wander down to D'Lux and see how the game goes.

Schuker69
04-25-12, 08:36
Ok, wow, can't believe the amount of Kiev posts since I left the wild city. Been reading this forum for a very long time as I do not post locally as not much to report, but now big time! Recently returned from a very interesting and friggin cold winter in Kiev. Started the adventure in Amsterdam, and backpacked thru ten different countries by train. After a visit to Paris over new years decided to fly from Kohl to Kiev and 2 days later I was there. Along the way I did manage to check out some awesome points of interest but do not have exact names, locations of some, all in this order- ie; RLD Amsterdam, Antwert, first FKK club ever-Berndt, Germany, Prague FKK, Goldentime, Vienna, small / awesome parlour Barcelona, Dolce Vita, Dusseldorf, then bam- Kiev where I was very happy to finally get to plant my ass in one spot for a while after so much running around Europe.

Rented 5 different flats over a 2 1/2 month span, including a one bedroom in Lviv for 200 grn / nite. Last flat was a steal for $50 / nite one block up from Khrschatyk St. Which I rented for 6 weeks. Took me a few days to get my game as I am 50 years young passing myself off easily forat40 years but because I had no idea I was going to Ukraine, so I had alot of catching up / research to do if I wanted to get down to business and succeed as much as possible. First thing I did was buy a phone and could not imagine getting anything done without it. Having read so much info and detail on Rio I did check it out and maybe it was an off nite but decided this was not going to be needed since I was here for a long time. No offense, but so much detailed info about this girl, that girl, what she does, name, jesus, who wants to keep a journel for this action? Where's the thrill?

Ok- Yes, mistakes were made and money spend on a few women who were freebies but not in leaving my wallet alone, because I was a dumb ass but I eventually learned what to avoid and what to concentrate on. Reason is I mistakenly thought I could charm them into my bed and actually did sleep with a hot 25 year old early on but that is all, sleep, and then she pranced around my flat almost naked for a few hours and it drove me nuts, but thought I was laying ground work for a future hot session. Wrong, oh, I tried but didn't happen, a couple others too but this happens back home because I always try to land a woman who is alot younger than me and this takes patience, and willingness to get dumped at any time. But figure the risk right now is ok, as not interested in hooking up with a local fat ass which seems like. Every other woman, so when I landed in Kiev I was blown away by the shape and beauty of these women and it was friggin winter!

Did join Travel Girls a few weeks before and met a few non pros off it that ended up as cool young female friends who I partied with and hung out throughout my stay. Too old for some, as wish I could have turned back clock but it is what it is now. Hit many bars and have an opinion of a few, all depending on what kind of shape I was in or who I was with. Now onto Mamba, did not even know of website till I continued to read here so thanks for that guys. Then started to work it hard after loading a profile, and I got so busy with non pros, and semi pros I had to keep a journel because I was losing track of all these girls, where I met them and where I was going to see them next. Crazy, but I met a guy from the homeland who now lives in Kiev, and spent a few months in Kiev many years ago. Who kept 2 journels containing more than 400 girls, and at the time he wasat45 years old and just walked arounf the city as a horny foreigner, cafes, bars, the street, always asking "do you speak english?" well that was then and it has changed from what I hear and see, but what has not changed is the incedibly beautiful, and well built, sexy dressed ladies who are everywhere.

Strolling thru Globus mall met 2 students early 20's sitting at a bench and after a chat decide to go for a coffee. Don't think I will venture into the rating thing here but they were cool girls and one in particular had great tits and a sweet pussy, who ended up coming over to my flat, both getting naked in my bed and having sex with both for 300 grn, then a few days later 400 grn. They called me for the next few days but was too busy with other girls. I was having 2-3 girls coming to my flat daily sometimes, or meeting them in city centre. Reg girls knew what was going on as I was rushing to either get them out of my flat or had an excuse to get somewhere fast. It was actually stressful is a funny way, but this kind of stress I enjoyed. Alot of partying and fun along the way. Mamba connections were done where I turned away girls who came to my door because I was extra picky that day and sometimes they would send 3 girls? Wtd I would say and close the door but the solo girls that did not measure up I always gave 50 grn for taxi.

Hell, my flat was on the third floor and it was the coldest winter in 40 years in Kiev. A few girls who I chatted up for a while came over and some were 600 grn, hot sex then bye, bye, and others not asking about grn, I would ask to join me to eat at a restaurant / pub of my choice. Then a few just came back to my flat for a few drinks and a snack where I would make a pass hard and fast so I could quickly see what I was up against. Hell, I has 2 freebies on 2 separate visits, a hot 19 and then a 20 year old. Crazy fun, as I always tried to make sure my kitchen was well stocked with a variety of booze, food, and snacks for my visitors. One sexy 25 year old spent who I had met a week before all of a sudden talks about grn so I told her to come over, we drank, and she danced in sexy lingerie while the music played and then spent the nite for hot sex and then more in the morning too. 800 grn+ 50 taxi. Lviv was the same, totally hot mamba girl. 24 year old girl overnite but 1200 grn, including taxi. Do the math here please! Many other stories but also got very busy with one lady in particular 15 years younger and had great sex with her too many times to count, and who I went out with as often as I could but since she worked many hours a week at her job filled in balance of free time elsewhere. I enjoyed sight seeing with a few ladies and had a great time. Yes the cops are to avoided as I have opinions on this too. Don't know what else to say and sorry for blabbing on and not laying this info out earlier but only back to shitty reality a few weeks ago. If you want more info please ask. Ps. No Ukrainian / Russian spoken but next time I will have a few phrases to make it easier.

How14
04-25-12, 20:50
Ok, wow, can't believe the amount of Kiev posts since I left the wild city. Been reading this forum for a very long time as I do not post locally as not much to report, but now big time! Recently returned from a very interesting and friggin cold winter in Kiev. Started the adventure in Amsterdam, and backpacked thru ten different countries by train. After a visit to Paris over new years decided to fly from Kohl to Kiev and 2 days later I was there. Along the way I did manage to check out some awesome points of interest but do not have exact names, locations of some, all in this order- ie; RLD Amsterdam, Antwert, first FKK club ever-Berndt, Germany, Prague FKK, Goldentime, Vienna, small / awesome parlour Barcelona, Dolce Vita, Dusseldorf, then bam- Kiev where I was very happy to finally get to plant my ass in one spot for a while after so much running around Europe.

Rented 5 different flats over a 2 1/2 month span, including a one bedroom in Lviv for 200 grn / nite. Last flat was a steal for $50 / nite one block up from Khrschatyk St. Which I rented for 6 weeks. Took me a few days to get my game as I am 50 years young passing myself off easily forat40 years but because I had no idea I was going to Ukraine, so I had alot of catching up / research to do if I wanted to get down to business and succeed as much as possible. First thing I did was buy a phone and could not imagine getting anything done without it. Having read so much info and detail on Rio I did check it out and maybe it was an off nite but decided this was not going to be needed since I was here for a long time. No offense, but so much detailed info about this girl, that girl, what she does, name, jesus, who wants to keep a journel for this action? Where's the thrill?

Ok- Yes, mistakes were made and money spend on a few women who were freebies but not in leaving my wallet alone, because I was a dumb ass but I eventually learned what to avoid and what to concentrate on. Reason is I mistakenly thought I could charm them into my bed and actually did sleep with a hot 25 year old early on but that is all, sleep, and then she pranced around my flat almost naked for a few hours and it drove me nuts, but thought I was laying ground work for a future hot session. Wrong, oh, I tried but didn't happen, a couple others too but this happens back home because I always try to land a woman who is alot younger than me and this takes patience, and willingness to get dumped at any time. But figure the risk right now is ok, as not interested in hooking up with a local fat ass which seems like. Every other woman, so when I landed in Kiev I was blown away by the shape and beauty of these women and it was friggin winter!

Did join Travel Girls a few weeks before and met a few non pros off it that ended up as cool young female friends who I partied with and hung out throughout my stay. Too old for some, as wish I could have turned back clock but it is what it is now. Hit many bars and have an opinion of a few, all depending on what kind of shape I was in or who I was with. Now onto Mamba, did not even know of website till I continued to read here so thanks for that guys. Then started to work it hard after loading a profile, and I got so busy with non pros, and semi pros I had to keep a journel because I was losing track of all these girls, where I met them and where I was going to see them next. Crazy, but I met a guy from the homeland who now lives in Kiev, and spent a few months in Kiev many years ago. Who kept 2 journels containing more than 400 girls, and at the time he wasat45 years old and just walked arounf the city as a horny foreigner, cafes, bars, the street, always asking "do you speak english?" well that was then and it has changed from what I hear and see, but what has not changed is the incedibly beautiful, and well built, sexy dressed ladies who are everywhere.

Strolling thru Globus mall met 2 students early 20's sitting at a bench and after a chat decide to go for a coffee. Don't think I will venture into the rating thing here but they were cool girls and one in particular had great tits and a sweet pussy, who ended up coming over to my flat, both getting naked in my bed and having sex with both for 300 grn, then a few days later 400 grn. They called me for the next few days but was too busy with other girls. I was having 2-3 girls coming to my flat daily sometimes, or meeting them in city centre. Reg girls knew what was going on as I was rushing to either get them out of my flat or had an excuse to get somewhere fast. It was actually stressful is a funny way, but this kind of stress I enjoyed. Alot of partying and fun along the way. Mamba connections were done where I turned away girls who came to my door because I was extra picky that day and sometimes they would send 3 girls? Wtd I would say and close the door but the solo girls that did not measure up I always gave 50 grn for taxi.

Hell, my flat was on the third floor and it was the coldest winter in 40 years in Kiev. A few girls who I chatted up for a while came over and some were 600 grn, hot sex then bye, bye, and others not asking about grn, I would ask to join me to eat at a restaurant / pub of my choice. Then a few just came back to my flat for a few drinks and a snack where I would make a pass hard and fast so I could quickly see what I was up against. Hell, I has 2 freebies on 2 separate visits, a hot 19 and then a 20 year old. Crazy fun, as I always tried to make sure my kitchen was well stocked with a variety of booze, food, and snacks for my visitors. One sexy 25 year old spent who I had met a week before all of a sudden talks about grn so I told her to come over, we drank, and she danced in sexy lingerie while the music played and then spent the nite for hot sex and then more in the morning too. 800 grn+ 50 taxi. Lviv was the same, totally hot mamba girl. 24 year old girl overnite but 1200 grn, including taxi. Do the math here please! Many other stories but also got very busy with one lady in particular 15 years younger and had great sex with her too many times to count, and who I went out with as often as I could but since she worked many hours a week at her job filled in balance of free time elsewhere. I enjoyed sight seeing with a few ladies and had a great time. Yes the cops are to avoided as I have opinions on this too. Don't know what else to say and sorry for blabbing on and not laying this info out earlier but only back to shitty reality a few weeks ago. If you want more info please ask. Ps. No Ukrainian / Russian spoken but next time I will have a few phrases to make it easier.Sorry friend I don't believe a word your saying, I'm not having it

Muddy7
04-26-12, 09:12
FINAL RIO REPORT.

If you happen to be in Kiev and you are looking for p4p then its a good place to checkout.

But its crazy to get on a long flight and travel to Kiev just for RIO.

Girls I took home:

Isabella- red hair, nice body and tits and nice attitude but I won't repeat.

Bella- Blond, I won't repeat, may post a video of her masturbating on my sofa while I was in the shower, LOL.

Katya- dark hair, nice body, didn't like her attitude that much, definitely won't repeat.

Ada- dark hair, nice body, nice attitude but won't repeat.

Sophia- blonde, nice body, great tits, saw her 2 times.

Almost all the girls I mentioned above don't do BBBJ, you can try offering them more money.

Rosa- very average body, dark hair, very pretty face but won't repeat.

Lera, blond, didn't think she was attractive enough to take home for $300.

Derina- $500 girl, nice body but small tits, not pretty, she is definitely not worth it for $500 especially since she does not do BBBJ.

There were some girl I really wanted to take home but they don't go out with men they meet in the club like Zlatta, Leya, Katrin, Margarita (?)

So when you read in some posts there are 150 girls working there don't think all 150 are hookers.

Overall I was disappointed, didnt think there were that many pretty girls there but if I happen to be in Kiev and I have free time and looking for p4p I will go there again.

I think if you find a girl outside VIP room she may give you a better time than the VIP girls often mentioned in LilJoey posts

Climaxnow
04-26-12, 13:06
FINAL RIO REPORT.

If you happen to be in Kiev and you are looking for p4p then its a good place to checkout.

But its crazy to get on a long flight and travel to Kiev just for RIO.The entire p4p Kiev market is basically not worth traveling over seas. However, I plan many trips to Kiev to tap the free scene, the really expensive stuff.

Ronaldinjo
04-26-12, 13:40
FINAL RIO REPORT.

If you happen to be in Kiev and you are looking for p4p then its a good place to checkout.

But its crazy to get on a long flight and travel to Kiev just for RIO.

Girls I took home:

Isabella- red hair, nice body and tits and nice attitude but I won't repeat.

Bella- Blond, I won't repeat, may post a video of her masturbating on my sofa while I was in the shower, LOL.

Katya- dark hair, nice body, didn't like her attitude that much, definitely won't repeat.

Ada- dark hair, nice body, nice attitude but won't repeat.

Sophia- blonde, nice body, great tits, saw her 2 times.

Almost all the girls I mentioned above don't do BBBJ, you can try offering them more money.

Rosa- very average body, dark hair, very pretty face but won't repeat.

Lera, blond, didn't think she was attractive enough to take home for $300.

Derina- $500 girl, nice body but small tits, not pretty, she is definitely not worth it for $500 especially since she does not do BBBJ.

There were some girl I really wanted to take home but they don't go out with men they meet in the club like Zlatta, Leya, Katrin, Margarita (?)

So when you read in some posts there are 150 girls working there don't think all 150 are hookers.

Overall I was disappointed, didn't think there were that many pretty girls there but if I happen to be in Kiev and I have free time and looking for p4p I will go there again.

I think if you find a girl outside VIP room she may give you a better time than the VIP girls often mentioned in LilJoey postsDear Muddy, your comments are very usefull indeed, thank you. I'm travveling to Kiev next week and would like to know which girl you took home allowed DATY? And who was best girl you took home? Sofia? Did she allowed DATY? Thank you and wait for my report after may of 12, when I'm back from Kiev.

LilJoey
04-26-12, 19:41
In regards to freebies, I would recommend to forget the canned crap about "game and a little cash". The reality is more like "tons of time and piles of dough". Its all about you presenting yourself as a secure man and your ability to cross paths with needy girls.A valid assessment of what the ISG member of 45+ can expect, barring that member possessing unusually good looks or game with women.

As for p4p, those aiming to try to score with very hot girls but for $100 / hr or less may follow several paths:

(a) what I will call the "Hunter Dave" model (although he's not the only one pursuing this method, it was he who convinced me that one could get very good results with this over time, judging by photos he showed me when we traded war stories) and do a lot of pre-trip homework to get contacts and schedule as many meetings as possible each day at various downtown coffee shops or bars with non-pros or semi-pros contacts from mamba. Ru and run from one meeting to the next, weeding out those who don't merit further investigation, from those you want to see again, with the goal of ultimately getting them to your apartment on some pretext and charming them into your bed, for little or no money.

(b) what I will call the "Cruiser D" method of hitting the nightclubs (other than Buddha Bar) to pick up working girls (WG's) for $200 or less, as used to be possible at RP (again not because he is the only one to advocate this method, but because he is the one veteran Kiev monger who most convinced me recently (along with Me and You's recent corroborating report), that it was possible to get very hot (8 and above) girls from the nightclubs in Kiev for $200 or less, which displaced my previous opinion that was based on a lot of the reports on this thread and some personal experience, that the nightclub rates for a very hot 8+ girl was $500 or $400/2 hours, or at best $300/2hours).

(c) if you try methods (a) and (b) and don't get good enough results to satisfy your goals for your Kiev trip, (look, even the veterans tell you YMMV and there's no guarantees) , or if you feel you do not have sufficient time or game or Russian language skills to get good enough results using those first two methods, or you are just plain lazy and don't want to work that hard, then you will need to pay a little more to get to very hot girls, in strip clubs like Rio ($100 / hr but 3 hour minimum) or, for slightly higher rates, you can try Dolls ($300/2hours which is $150 / hr net rate) or use Gia escort service if you find any of their girls personally appealing.

(d) you can also use mamba and other websites using fake pics to find p4p girls looking for a sponsor or advertising sex for money and invite them to your apartment, sending away the piglets until something nice looking enough shows up, at low rates of $75 / hr or $100 / hr. Usually, with enough persistence you will get a girl that is doable this way, and there are claims by guys on this thread to have gotten very hot 8+ girls this way, although it has not happened to me personally, and the best I ever got this way was a 6 or 7 level girl, slender, sexy and doable, but not a high level beauty comparable to the dancers at Rio strip club, or hotties I have seen in the nightclubs.

(e) you can also go to one of the many girl apartments around downtown. They can be found by asking taxi drivers. Another way is to walk around downtown on Kreshchatyk and wait for a shill to approach you. Some of these apartments are behind the ads with many girls on top-modals. Com, and some are advertising on mamba. Ru too and respond with rates info like agencies.

(f) there are also body massage happy ending salons in Kiev to be enjoyed by those satisfied by something short of full service.

I differ from a recent poster who said it is crazy to come across the ocean to Kiev! I say just the opposite, it is crazy not to come to Kiev from the USA, and certainly from the UK. Kiev today is one of the best mongering locations in terms of lower prices as well as the stunning good looks of the available girls as well as the culture which makes acceptable the unions between young girls and guys of middle age, as are most ISG members. I have cranked the numbers and set them forth in a prior post (#9861 on April 16 2012) so no need to repeat here, but the travel costs from USA to Kiev do not change the truth of the foregoing opinion. Even with the travel costs from USA to Kiev considered, Kiev remains less expensive than mongering on a similar level at home (you can have a top level beauty for all night in Kiev for the cost of one hour with such a girl in USA) , and Kiev is the best mongering destination I have experienced, exceeding even the potential and possibilities and low prices that exist in the FKK's. So an adventurous USA monger should definitely consider Kiev as a preferred destination IMHO.

LJ

Kirch
04-27-12, 10:45
Great news from Sergey at Rio. He told me they open a strip club boat on May 8 in Podol. He invited me for the opening night on May 8. He said they will have tons of new girls there. Sounds great and it looks like I have to come back in one week.

Rio is still good! Three nights there and every time lucky with beuatiful girls. Our apartment is right above Rio and the girls like it. All of our girls stay longer then 3 hours, actualy until 8:00 or 9:00 am in the morning. We always pick up 2 girls for me and my buddy and then start to talk, drink and listen to music. So they feel confortable and stay longer because we don't push them for anything. So having them for 6-8 hours here for 2. 400 Griwna each is a great deal!

I love Kiev!

LilJoey
04-27-12, 21:45
Great news from Sergey at Rio. He told me they open a strip club boat on May 8 in Podol. He invited me for the opening night on May 8. He said they will have tons of new girls there. Sounds great and it looks like I have to come back in one week.

Rio is still good! Three nights there and every time lucky with beuatiful girls. Our apartment is right above Rio and the girls like it. All of our girls stay longer then 3 hours, actualy until 8:00 or 9:00 am in the morning. We always pick up 2 girls for me and my buddy and then start to talk, drink and listen to music. So they feel confortable and stay longer because we don't push them for anything. So having them for 6-8 hours here for 2. 400 Griwna each is a great deal!

I love Kiev!Kirch, did Sergey say the name of the club to be opened on May 8? Is it "Mandarin"? Or another name. When I was in Rio at the beginning of April, Slava told me the Mandarin club will reopen by the end of April. Most likely, you are referring to this same club, but I just want to confirm. The old Mandarin club, was operated by the same people who operated Rio, and was also on a boat on the river and it had a floor show with singers and dancers that was pretty good, in addition to having strippers in between sets (some of whom were available for take out). Is the New club to be opened May 8 going to have the same style as the old Mandarin club with burlesque shows? If you go, please report on the details.

Yes, of course Rio is still good! I had some awesome girls from there during my visit March 29 to April 3. Enjoy!

LJ

Uke Boy
04-28-12, 06:19
Kirch, did Sergey say the name of the club to be opened on May 8? Is it "Mandarin"? Or another name. When I was in Rio at the beginning of April, Slava told me the Mandarin club will reopen by the end of April. Most likely, you are referring to this same club, but I just want to confirm. The old Mandarin club, was operated by the same people who operated Rio, and was also on a boat on the river and it had a floor show with singers and dancers that was pretty good, in addition to having strippers in between sets (some of whom were available for take out). Is the New club to be opened May 8 going to have the same style as the old Mandarin club with burlesque shows? If you go, please report on the details.

Yes, of course Rio is still good! I had some awesome girls from there during my visit March 29 to April 3. Enjoy!

LJIn Metro wagons, there are lots of adverts from Rio for dancers (with ballet skills!) , barmaids, hostesses and the like. So something is up. It does appear at first glance to be a Mandarin-type floor show/stripping set-up.

Will this new club be another River Palace? I doubt it, at least not right away. Anything that will be obvious sex tourism or overt prostitution, especially during the Euro games will no doubt be swiftly dealt with by the authorities. They are already well aware and very unhappy about the sex business issue for Kiev and Ukraine in news reports. Don't forget that River Palace was raided by the police during the latter stage of its existence.

For the new club, a discreet take-out business is the likely scenario. After the sometimes harsh sex business spotlight of Euro-2012 is well off, then things may change.

And, guys, even though LJ still has wet dreams about his time at Rio and for him the girls are all 9s and 10s, YMM Wildly V, as the per reports from Muddy7 (report 9961) and others. Be prepared for the reality of "average" "nice" and possible disappointment.

LilJoey
04-28-12, 12:43
And, guys, even though LJ still has wet dreams about his time at Rio and for him the girls are all 9s and 10s, YMM Wildly V, as the per reports from Muddy7 (report 9961) and others. Be prepared for the reality of "average" "nice" and possible disappointment.

Uke Boy, why mislead newbies and dismiss my assessments so cavalierly by misquoting me. Any fair reading of my reports would show that my wet dreams are reserved for only the very hottest upper echelon of the girls at the club. My reports always acknowledged the presence of average looking girls at the Rio club. These are the girls that I ignore. I am searching for the gems, and I took pains to identify the girls who are above average in looks. Muddy's assessments are basically a point or so lower than my own (basically he opines a 7 or 7. 5 where I have felt the girl an 8 or an 8. 5. So we're not that far apart). Look rather into assessments in earlier reports by other members which are more in line with my own, and closer to what most men's opinions would be.

Better yet, since you are there in Kiev, Uke Boy, perhaps go into the club and meet Leela or Vladislava, and tell us your own opinion. All of my friends who have seen my photos and video clips of these two girls have uniformly come away with jaws-dropped appreciation for their beauty and hotness (sorry guys but due to promises made, I cannot post them on the Internet). I believe that no man who would have the opportunity for GFE sex with these girls (leela or vladislava, or both together) or with Sophia, or Katya, or Ada would come away disappointed. Here is the link to my trip report concerning them:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1267578#post1267578

By the way the good news for those who find my reports useful, is the news regarding services. This trip I finally broke through the barrier with Katya on her previous policy of requiring protection for DATY or BJ, and this trip she let me taste her delights and returned the favor. I guess it's a factor of trust with her and how well you know her. But it's no longer an iron clad rule, so YMMV with Katya, a lovely, very shapely hottie with gorgeous long shiny brown hair and a cute face as well as ass. Likewise, I succeeded in getting BBBJ from Sophia this trip, but it took an offer of more money. Sophia always enjoyed DATY. Ada too always provided a BBBJ and enjoyed DATY (although not in front of another girl who didn't). Ada has a very hot body and a cute face. Leela too provided BBBJ to me and thoroughly enjoyed DATY. I have posted my concerns about the very pretty Lera in previous reports (no DATY yet, but she does do a covered BJ). Lera has a very pretty, cute face, a hot body which one can enjoy as she dances. I liked her sexy flat stomach and the curves of her hips, her sizzling lines as she danced, much more than her ass (which Muddy seems to like) which I found a little plump. So I can see that Muddy looks at different things than I do. Likewise with a girl like Darina, who, while I agree she is not worth $500/3 hrs, yet I feel that she is a very sexy and pretty girl. She has the type of face that men can react differently to. I found her attractive. Muddy didn't like her face. So YMMV. Her performance in bed is very good, with all the trimmings. But again most guys will not pop for the $500. For those that might like her, perhaps the best strategy is to get her early in the evening for the whole night and try to negotiate to hold her at her price of $500, which for all night, would not be much worse a price than the other Rio girls.

On the other hand if you are one of those guys who can get girls out of nightclubs who look as good as girls like Leela etc. And for prices lower than $200, then despite how good these girls look, it isn't worth it, since you can get the same for a lower price of $200 in a nightclub.

But if you are not able to be successful in the nightclubs to get girls who look as good as Leela or even as good as Sophia, for $200 or less, or you don't have the time, or you don't want to take the time, to chase pussy all night in a nightclub and you want instant results, and you are prepared to pay a little more to make sure you have a hottie in your bed THAT night in Kiev, then you may want to consider some of these girls dancing at Rio, or The new Mandarin club, or for a little more money, the hotties at Dolls, etc

Kirch
04-28-12, 15:36
Kirch, did Sergey say the name of the club to be opened on May 8? Is it "Mandarin"? Or another name. When I was in Rio at the beginning of April, Slava told me the Mandarin club will reopen by the end of April. Most likely, you are referring to this same club, but I just want to confirm. The old Mandarin club, was operated by the same people who operated Rio, and was also on a boat on the river and it had a floor show with singers and dancers that was pretty good, in addition to having strippers in between sets (some of whom were available for take out). Is the New club to be opened May 8 going to have the same style as the old Mandarin club with burlesque shows? If you go, please report on the details.

Yes, of course Rio is still good! I had some awesome girls from there during my visit March 29 to April 3. Enjoy!

LJI had quite some drinks yesterday and just woke up but I think to remember the name is Mandarin and one of the girls told me she doesn't want to dance there because the have singers? Sorry, that's all I got.

Muddy7
04-28-12, 18:04
And, guys, even though LJ still has wet dreams about his time at Rio and for him the girls are all 9s and 10s, YMM Wildly V, as the per reports from Muddy7 (report 9961) and others. Be prepared for the reality of "average" "nice" and possible disappointment.You know, when I went to RIO I see many guys over 50, bald, fat, some with eyeglasses dirty blue jeans and t-shirts. To them probably every girl is a 10, so it all depends.

The good thing about RIO is that you see the girls body and you can see her pussy (private dance) before you take her home, not all pussies look nice and pretty

I don't mind visiting RIO if I just happen to be Kiev for business or whatever but I will never travel to Kiev just for RIO, most girls are just average or below average, its very hard to find a good looking dancer to take home outside the VIP room, and some of the girls in the VIP room won't go home with you, they are just dancers.

Do you guys know a good site for uploading videos? I can upload a video of a dancer masturbating on my sofa while I was in the shower

If you you have a weak personality the dancers will not stay with you for 3 hours, they will come to your flat , will give you a covered bj and have sex and then waste time talking to you and so on they are very good in killing time, you have to make it clear to them its for 3 hours, there was a dancer who was giving me a bj and a hand job like we have only 15 minutes, I had to slow her down and tell her I dont want a handjob and remind her we have 3 hours not 15 minutes

LilJoey
04-29-12, 01:42
The good thing about RIO is that you see the girls body and you can see her pussy (private dance) before you take her home, not all pussies look nice and pretty.

* * * its very hard to find a good looking dancer to take home outside the VIP room, and some of the girls in the VIP room won't go home with you, Most of the hot girls I have taken out of Rio over the past year 2011 and including up until my last visit of April 2012 have not been from the VIP room there, but rather from the downstairs bar or the upstairs bar. The VIP room has never been seen by me to have a consistently better line up than the other rooms. This has been noticed by more than one ISG member, causing us to muse in prior reports on this thread as to what is special about the VIP room at Rio to give it that title of "VIP", since it was decidedly NOT the quality of the girls in the VIP. It seemed that it was simply the more comfortable seating and couches in the VIP lounge and the mere exclusivity of its accessibility that differentiated it from the other rooms at Rio. I once thought I detected a similarity in the type of girls I saw in the VIP of very petite, young, newer types of girls, but this held true only for a time. I spoke to the managers about it, saying in the rest of the world a VIP room would be assumed to have the better girls but that was obviously not the strategy at Rio. The managers I spoke to acknowledged that that was the case. At one time it was my impression that the best looking girls were more to be found in the downstairs room, and the managers were directing the regulars to the downstairs bar, and newer customers to the upstairs room. It's hard to say if this has continued to hold true either. The fact is that girls switch around and rotate through the different rooms, sometimes they would be dancing downstairs, sometimes upstairs and sometimes in VIP, and sometimes at the sister club Paradise located 30 minutes out from downtown.

Therefore, this idea which runs consistently through reports filed by Muddy, that VIP room has the prettier girls at Rio, is a misconception. It makes me doubt whether he has really been in all the rooms at Rio adequately to assess the different line ups, or his observational powers. The fact is that one needs to check out all three line ups to see if there are some top level hotties present. One cannot simply go, or try to go, to the VIP room and bank on the idea that the best looking girls will be there. It's simply not so. The best strategy is to start early, and check out each line up, and if you think that a particular line up is lame, as one after the other of average girls appears on stage, don't just continue to sit there and waste time, but rather ask the manager if you can switch to the other room to see who's there. Do not assume VIP has best line up. It is a misconception.

I do agree that there are many average girls or slightly above average girls dancing at the Rio club. On this Muddy, and others are correct. No one should spend $300 on such girls because such average looking girls are widely available on mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or other websites at $75 / hr or even $50 / hr. So it's ridiculous to take average looking girls out from Rio at a prive of $300 even for 3 hours.

However, there are also a significant percentage of very nice looking girls at Rio too. And that is the entire point of going to the club. To get one if the beauties, if you can. They are not in the club in unlimited supply, but there are a sufficient number of them to make it worthwhile. There is competition from other customers. Some beauties are new girls, and are dancer only. But if you can get to one of the hotties, and she checks out in all your requirements, and she likes you and agrees to come home with you, you are in for a treat, although it's going to cost you $300/3hrs for take out. But in all my trips to Kiev, the Rio club has replaced the River Palace for me, as the location for the least expensive easy and sure thing, in getting a very hot young Ukrainian girl into my bed for the night.

However, now that some reliable veteran members of ISG are reporting lower prices of $200 or less for very hot girls in the nightclubs, instead of the prices of $400 and $500 that were being reported as nightclub prices previously, it would be highly recommended to spend some significant time searching for your hottie of the night at one of the popular nightclubs to see if you can score something good at $200 or less, and to look at places like Rio, or the new Mandarin scheduled to reopen soon, as a backup in case you are not successful at the regular nightclubs, sort of like it used to be with River Palace when it used to be around.

And who knows, if you schedule a lot of daytime mamba. Ru girl meetings, as recommended, you may hook into the very hot young girls you are looking for, even before you hit the nightclubs at night, at much lower price to boot.

It's all good. Several different methods available to seek out very pretty young girls. What more could an older guy ask for in a mongering destination?

LE concerns have previously been a concern for our hobby. Girl apartments are vulnerable since they are known stationary targets. Best to invite dates to your apartment. It cannot be emphasized enough how important it is to carry your actual passport on your person in going about Kiev. Also, out of concern for being stopped by police when trying to enter your apartment with a girl, it would be a good idea to make sure any girl you wish to bring to your apartment (especially in Maidan area) has her identity documents with her, and that you should know at least her real first name (you can always say to a policeman that you forgot her last name) , and you should have some agreed upon story of how you know each other and are friends or acquaintances from previously. The police say that they are concerned for the protection of tourists from unscrupulous girls who rob them, so it is not good to take girls you don't know into your apartment. So being able to satisfy the police that you do know each other from before and trust them, along with some Grivna has always worked in the past, if one got stopped. The clubs like Rio, know how to recognize the presence of LE in the club, and will likely slow things down or not permit take out during such a visitation, but will resume when all's clear.

LJ

Schuker69
04-29-12, 04:14
I agree, I would be careful listening to any member of this board who always speaks out about only one option in Kiev: stripclub, website or other provider. Seems like there is a lot of available o in Kiev and arriving in couple of days I will explore them. PM me guys if you want to meet for a drink.)Careful listening to me? Ya, I've read a few of your posts and it seems to me you are in the clueless department- even store front! U may have trouble even navigating the many choices on mamba! Also- where do I say one option? Stripclub? I mentioned I went to Rio forat2 hours and left, not impressed but maybe off nite, so this is an option? Not for me. Website? TG / mamba which = 2, then other provider? Simple enuf to see I mention a few options I personally experienced in recent 10 winter weeks in Kiev. TG, semi pros / non pros on mamba, bars, street, and malls. Badoos works too! U know dude. If a senior member on here happens to, for whatever reason- doubt a newbies post for reasons of his own, which I find hilarious because how they know the action there. Does not mean you have to be gutless and leave some sheep-like respond because you can't think for yourself. Why do I get the feeling you have a hard time approaching women in a bar to chat and dance? Good luck in Kiev Red-dick, you need it!

LilJoey
04-29-12, 13:25
Joey, I have been to all the rooms there.

Outside the VIP room its hard to find a good looking dancer to take homeThings change, I guess, so I will leave it as a question for the future.

Like I said, it hasn't been the way you described for a year and was not that way even up to April 3, 2012, the date of my last visit to Rio. Most of the girls I liked were not from the VIP room, and I met them in the downstairs or upstairs bar, including Ada, Lera, Sophia, Leela, Anita. The only one of the girls I took out that I met in VIP originally was Katya.

There are two possibilities. One is that it is possible that you are observing the results of a cycle of the rotation which just coincidentally has a concentration of hotties in the VIP at the time if your visit. You did write, I recall, that Lera was dancing in VIP when you were there, and I had always seen her and Ada dancing downstairs. If the concentration of hotties in VIP that you observed was simply a result of the rotation, then it was merely a coincidental effect. The club has never maintained a policy of keeping the hottest girls in the VIP in the past. So based on that, I would not expect or rely on that being the case in the future.

Is it also possible that the Rio managers changed the policy of the club with respect to the VIP line up, perhaps as a result from receiving comments / complaints similar to mine when I was there in the beginning of April, and they consciously have made some effort to improve the quality of their VIP line up. If this is the case, it will probably be a lasting effect.

I guess time will tell, and we'll see what happens in the future. I will probably be back in Kiev in September, and will check it out again.

Muddy7
04-29-12, 14:02
All the girls I took home were dancing in the VIP room except Rosa.

Like I wrote it was hard to find a dancer to take home outside the VIP room.

Ada, Lera, Sophia, Leela were all dancing in the VIP.

joey, you keep writing 3 hours for $300, but what do you get from dancers like Lera and Derina? Derina is $500 not $300
They dont do bbbj like most dancers at RIO, they dont even let you do daty if you want to, they probably wont even let you finger them, its probably one hour sex and 2 hours talking?
In your last trip report you took home 5 girls in 4 nights(march 30 to april 3) youre over 40 years old(am i right?) do you really fuck each girl 2 times in 3 hours every night pal??


Things change, I guess, so I will leave it as a question for the future.

Like I said, it hasn't been the way you described for a year and was not that way even up to April 3, 2012, the date of my last visit to Rio. Most of the girls I liked were not from the VIP room, and I met them in the downstairs or upstairs bar, including Ada, Lera, Sophia, Leela, Anita. The only one of the girls I took out that I met in VIP originally was Katya.

There are two possibilities. One is that it is possible that you are observing the results of a cycle of the rotation which just coincidentally has a concentration of hotties in the VIP at the time if your visit. You did write, I recall, that Lera was dancing in VIP when you were there, and I had always seen her and Ada dancing downstairs. If the concentration of hotties in VIP that you observed was simply a result of the rotation, then it was merely a coincidental effect. The club has never maintained a policy of keeping the hottest girls in the VIP in the past. So based on that, I would not expect or rely on that being the case in the future.

Is it also possible that the Rio managers changed the policy of the club with respect to the VIP line up, perhaps as a result from receiving comments / complaints similar to mine when I was there in the beginning of April, and they consciously have made some effort to improve the quality of their VIP line up. If this is the case, it will probably be a lasting effect.

I guess time will tell, and we'll see what happens in the future. I will probably be back in Kiev in September, and will check it out again.

Muddy7
04-29-12, 14:25
Things change, I guess, so I will leave it as a question for the future.

Like I said, it hasn't been the way you described for a year and was not that way even up to April 3, 2012, the date of my last visit to Rio. Most of the girls I liked were not from the VIP room, and I met them in the downstairs or upstairs bar, including Ada, Lera, Sophia, Leela, Anita. The only one of the girls I took out that I met in VIP originally was Katya.Joey read your own post here.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1264345&viewfull=1#post1264345

Well, I got to Rio and first went to the downstairs bar where Dima was managing things. I sat there for a good while becoming increasingly impatient with seeing average looking girls come on stage one after the other. I called Dima over to ask him what the Hell was going on and am I wasting my time waiting for the rest of the line up down there to appear? I asked him to please go backstage and take a look for me if there were any hot girls due to come onstage, which he did and came back to tell me that he doesn't know what to tell me but nothing spectacular. I did see Elvira a black-haired cute faced girl with a flat muscled stomach, nicely shaped sexy body, whom I had met before. She's possibly a 7. 5, sexy and doable, but nothing spectacular, and nobody I would be excited to go to D'lux nightclub with. Just a sexy girl that was doable if nothing better was on hand, and maybe not worth the $300. But she was the best that I saw in the downstairs bar, and there were too many girls I didn't even want to see dancing, let alone take home, and then I remembered that when I spoke to her when I met her last year, she was not so enthusiastic about oral sex and DATY, so I told her maybe I would come back downstairs for her, but that I was going to go upstairs then for a while. So after two cappuccinos, I became nervous that I'm wasting time down there, so Dima and I agreed that it would probably be better for me to go upstairs. First I sat in the VIP room, but there were only a few hot girls and more than I ever saw in VIP of average girls. I realized that something was seriously amiss this time at Rio, compared to the previous times I had been there, even the fast weekend of February 17. 18, not too long before. I didn't even stay in VIP long enough to finish my Perrier, and after seeing 5 or 6 sets of girls come out onstage who were not hottie material, I picked myself up and went over to Slava to ask what was going on with the line up and were they having staffing problems.

LilJoey
04-29-12, 17:33
Joey read your own post here.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1264345&viewfull=1#post1264345

Well, I got to Rio and first went to the downstairs bar where Dima was managing things. I sat there for a good while becoming increasingly impatient with seeing average looking girls come on stage one after the other. I called Dima over to ask him what the Hell was going on and am I wasting my time waiting for the rest of the line up down there to appear? I asked him to please go backstage and take a look for me if there were any hot girls due to come onstage, which he did and came back to tell me that he doesn't know what to tell me but nothing spectacular. I did see Elvira a black-haired cute faced girl with a flat muscled stomach, nicely shaped sexy body, whom I had met before. She's possibly a 7. 5, sexy and doable, but nothing spectacular, and nobody I would be excited to go to D'lux nightclub with. Just a sexy girl that was doable if nothing better was on hand, and maybe not worth the $300. But she was the best that I saw in the downstairs bar, and there were too many girls I didn't even want to see dancing, let alone take home, and then I remembered that when I spoke to her when I met her last year, she was not so enthusiastic about oral sex and DATY, so I told her maybe I would come back downstairs for her, but that I was going to go upstairs then for a while. So after two cappuccinos, I became nervous that I'm wasting time down there, so Dima and I agreed that it would probably be better for me to go upstairs. First I sat in the VIP room, but there were only a few hot girls and more than I ever saw in VIP of average girls. I realized that something was seriously amiss this time at Rio, compared to the previous times I had been there, even the fast weekend of February 17. 18, not too long before. I didn't even stay in VIP long enough to finish my Perrier, and after seeing 5 or 6 sets of girls come out onstage who were not hottie material, I picked myself up and went over to Slava to ask what was going on with the line up and were they having staffing problems.What's your point, Muddy? That post is an accurate description of the problems in the line ups at Rio being experienced this year, as reported by a few other members as well, compared to the very good line ups I had encountered in my trips in 2011. This indicated to me that there were some staffing problems going on.

However, you omit to reprint the remainder of the post, which demonstrates that after seeing a poor line up in the downstairs bar, and then a poor line up in the VIP bar, I then sat in the upstairs bar and saw quite a few hotties. I ended up taking home Anita, a pretty blond with a good body, who I've had my eye on for a long while, but never had been able to take because there had always been even hotter girls present that I wanted. Amira was hotter but had said no to DATY, Leela was busy, so that night (sat nite March 31) I took out Anita. I was very happy with her in the end, because Anita was happy with DATY, provided BBBJ, and had a lovely, sweet personality, providing a GFE experience.

In reporting, you have to be as balanced and honest as possible. Below is the part of my prior post you omitted. I'm really not sure what your point was. We both agree that the Rio line ups currently are not as great as they once were. But there are still hotties there, and you only need one. But just as things changed recently to less hotties than before, they can change back to be more hotties. We'll have to see what the facts are when we go back for a future visit. Hope that amidst all the advertising and recruitment going on for the new club they are opening, Mandarin, that they have a spill over and increase of the number of hotties back at Rio too, so that it gets back to having as many hotties like it did during my trips last year.

What was your point in omitting the part of my earlier post that showed that while the downstairs and VIP bars had poor line ups, the upstairs bar was hopping and had a good number of hotties? My recent point was that you can't assume VIP has the best girls, a point consistent with my earlier post you cited. I'm not getting your question.

Here's what you omitted:


* * * I didn't even stay in VIP long enough to finish my Perrier, and after seeing 5 or 6 sets of girls come out onstage who were not hottie material, I picked myself up and went over to Slava to ask what was going on with the line up and were they having staffing problems? Anyway, I moved to sit in the upstairs inner room bar and finally saw a few hotties at least on an 8 level. So I was happy to. Onto he sitting there until I could choose one. I tried with Amira (beautiful blonde who I would have loved to see on the dance floor at D'lux, a graduate of veterinary medicine, but she was inflexible about no DATY, and it was one pussy that ever since she flashed me with it during the private dance, that I really wanted, mmmmm perfect, but since she said no, I passed on her. I also had a dance with a new girl, Daria, petite cute blond, but nothing spectacular there either. The one spectacular girl I did see was Leela who I have had the hots for a long time, but she was with a local customer and never freed up. Then I saw the very pretty blond Anita on stage and remembered I had told her many times I would take her but it never happened. Well last night it did happen and she was an 8 and turned out to be a perfect GFE and everything I wanted was on the menu. I heard from Slava that the beautiful Lera was in VIP but by time I asked for her to be brought to me she was gone from the club. I asked about Laima a very sexy girl I had met in past but she was at Paradise that night. So I took Anita and was happy I did.

Friday night I picked up Katya from the club as we had made up previously so I didn't stay or check up on line up.

Based on Saturday night's line up, I wouldn't yet conclude anything drastic, but I am mindful of recent reports by others that reported not enough hotties. So I will take a look again on a different night and see what happens.

We're you unlucky? Maybe, because there we're times in past when the line up was chock full of hotties. I told Pasha that they have seriously work on the staffing. I guess we'll have to monitor things and see.

I didn't see the pretty Tanya this time yet. There was a post I did at the end of last year sometime between my trips September to November where I listed by name all the hot girls I had seen there worth looking at. Since things obviously change there over time, you need to see who is there at the actual time of your visit.LJ

LilJoey
04-29-12, 19:05
All the girls I took home were dancing in the VIP room except Rosa.

Like I wrote it was hard to find a dancer to take home outside the VIP room.

Ada, Lera, Sophia, Leela were all dancing in the VIP.

Joey, you keep writing 3 hours for $300, but what do you get from dancers like Lera and Derina? Derina is $500 not $300.

They don't do BBBJ like most dancers at RIO, they don't even let you do DATY if you want to, they probably won't even let you finger them, its probably one hour sex and 2 hours talking?

In your last trip report you took home 5 girls in 4 nights (March 30 to April 3) you're over 40 years old (am I right?) do you really fuck each girl 2 times in 3 hours every night pal?

Muddy, either you have a small brain or are just too lazy to read and understand what is being said to you. I addressed your assertions about the VIP line up in my previous answer to you. I accept that you saw these girls in the VIP. I merely point out to you and others that historically these girls were not dancing in the VIP and that VIP never was outstanding in the number of hotties in comparison with the downstairs or upstairs bar. Those are the historical facts. I don't know the reason why at the time of your visit most of the best girls were concentrated in VIP. It could represent a change in policy to make the VIP line up more deserving of the name VIP, or it could be merely a coincidence of the rotation of the girls to dance in each of the bars for a time, in which case in a short while things will get back to the way they have been historically with VIP not having any especially better line up. I don't know which is the case. We will have to see in a future visit what path is taken at the club. I think this is simple enough to understand. So Muddy, I accepted your representations about what you saw about VIP at the time of your visit, and there is no need to re-assert the same information. I get it. VIP was better when you were there.

You have asked two additional questions: (1) how much of the 3 hours in a Rio $300/3hours date is for sex, and there are girls who are limited in their services, not permitting DATY, BBBJ etc, and (2) looking at my head count of girls from my last trip you ask if being over 40, do I really fuck each girl twice in the three hours?

I have discussed the answers to both questions in previous posts, so RTFF. But as it may be informative to others trying to make a decision about what to do for themselves, I will address the questions. Let me start with your second question. Unfortunately, I am over 50, not just 40, having discovered the fun world of mongering later in life. So the question of how to manage my sperm count to allow maximal enjoyment of a mongering trip is a serious one. I will tell you my strategy and what works for me. As I got older I noticed that my "recharge rate" was slowing down. By "recharge rate" I mean the amount of time that I need after an ejaculation to be ready for another ejaculation. It is not equivalent at all times, and depends on how many prior ejaculations there have been in the last day or two. I can best measure myself when I am in the FKK environment where I am trying to fuck as many girls as I physically can in each visit. What I find is that after a pre-trip period of one week of no sex, no ejaculations, when I get to the FKK on the first day I can easily have sex with three girls, and have most times done four girls, and sometimes managed 5 girls. The next day I could not do that, and my limit is two or maybe three, but with a risk of non-completion, and I actually would prefer to just rest and go to an FKK again on the third day. But this is not always possible, so I just take it easier on the second day, so I can do more on the third day. I tend to stay Inside the FKK club for many hours and usually close the club, so I have more time to recharge. The FKK environment of many naked pretty girls all about is conducive to having sex more times than one would normally want. However, it is a measure of my limits.

When I go to Kiev, and I have a girl in my apartment for three or more hours, it will depend if this is the first night of the trip or not. On the first night of a mongering trip, if I am we'll rested (not usually the case) , I would be able to fuck the girl twice in the three hours, no problem. If she is awesome looking, like the old Rosa from 2010, it happens automatically, because on seeing her exit the shower and sit next to me naked, my penis gets up and starts reaching for her. LOL. But as the days of a mongering trip go on, and the prior ejaculations mount up, I become less certain that I can ejaculate twice in a short span of time. One of the advantages of being older than 20 years old, is that I can fuck a girl for a much longer period of time and can control myself as to when I will ejaculate. And if a girl starts getting the better of me by means of an awesome blowjob technique, or by her starting to have an orgasm while I am fucking her fast and she is screaming in my ear, which tends to excite me quite a bit and threatens to make me pop involuntarily, I just slow down the pace or shift the positioning, or even sometimes stop thrusting, and disguise it as wanting to give her a kiss, or say something endearing to her, etc. , so that I can regain control, suppress the ejaculation and continue happily fucking this young beautiful girl. And so, if I am not certain of being able to ejaculate twice in three hours, what I generally do is try to stretch the sexual activity over as much of the time we have as I can.

When I say sexual activity, I am including a long session of DATY, a long blowjob session, maybe sometimes shifting into a 69, then cowgirl, and maybe then reverse cowgirl until she starts saying she is tired, and then missionary, and then maybe sideways, and then doggie style, and then I might take her into another room and bend her over a couch, or lay her out on pillows on the dining room table, etc. I'm sure you get the idea. The first time I took Ada home, I remember doing all the above and I had placed her on the dining room table near the large screen TV blaring some funky hip hop, and I was fucking her to the rhythm of the beat, and told her,"baby, you're getting a jungle fuck!" to her squeals of giggles. I outdid myself with her that night and fucked that beautiful body for a very long time, probably 2. 5 hrs of sexual activity. She has this way of getting on top of you cowgirl and using her awesome stomach musculature to fuck you real fast like a rabbit, moving her pelvis back and forth on your dick very fast, causing your dick to swivel around inside her pussy in all manner of directions, and giving the base of your penis a real workout. For me, this movement has no danger of causing an ejaculation. I enjoy the feeling of my penis sliding in and out fully from the pussy much more. But as many times as I've shown her how I want her to move when she fucks me cowgirl, she always reverts back to her pelvic jacking movement, which she seems to enjoy and so I let her go on with it for quite a while. Anyway, I was able to last a long time with her, and when I finally came all over her belly as she lay on the dining room table, I was rewarded with a look of adoration from this young girl for the sexual romp we just had, that was very satisfying to a guy my age.

The point I am trying to illustrate is that if you can prolong the sexual activities to over 2 hours, it has it's own rewards, and I feel is better for me than to try to have two ejaculations within three hours. It doesn't mean a younger man couldn't pull off two fucks in three hours, or an older guy who has a lot of sperm on hand. It just means that for me, after the first four ejaculations of a mongering trip, my recharge rate is slowed down, so for me it works better to try for one really long lovemaking session, than for two pops within about 2. 5 hours. When I do a duo, the same concerns apply, so it's one cum for me with two girls, and I try to fuck the first girl until she has an orgasm, and then change gears and fuck the second girl to my finish. My body doesn't need two ejaculations from each session. So what works best for me is one long session. If you have more sperm on hand, then by all means try for two pops in the time allotted.

In response to you Muddy, for your first question, simply stay away from Lera and Darina, as they don't provide the services you want. It's why it is important to ask about services in advance. You need to find the girls who do provide DATY, BBBJ etc. And they are there too.

I am not interested in a tiresome back and forth with someone who doesn't even bother to read what has been answered to them, so if you choose to further address questions to me, make sure you understand what I have answered you before. Otherwise there is no communication and it's pointless.

Best of luck.

LJ

LilJoey
04-29-12, 19:48
Ditto! Do I ever second this comment!

LJ, even with your latest boring and completely useless magnum opus, you lost your audience after the first sentence. You really have severe diarrhea of the keyboard.

If you want to convince people of the rightness of your position, try doing it in a simple and short way.

However, I think the gentleman doth protest too much. You overrate the girls you meet and over-hype a joint that is basically the lazy man's option to Kiev.Uke Boy, I'm not trying to convince Muddy of anything, just correcting an erroneous assumption he made about the nature of the VIP line up at the Rio club, as he got it into his head that it's always the best line up there, and it hasn't been so historically. It's a fairly simple point, and frankly it's not that important, as things change and guys going to the VIP on the mistaken expectation of a better line up from Muddy's reports, will simply find out the facts when they get to the club and see the comparative situation between the various line ups there.

Uke Boy, why charge me with overrating the girls I take out. Why not take up the challenge I wrote to you earlier and go and meet Leela and tell me your honest opinion. I don't believe we are really that far apart on appreciation of the fairer sex. I really am interested to hear your opinion of her.

LJ

Muddy7
04-30-12, 12:40
This is what Joey gets from the RIO girls:

1- When you add the cost of his trip he is really paying over $450 for every meeting.

2- I seriously doubt the majority of the dancers stay with him for the full 3 hours.

3- I would say 9 out of every 10 dancer he takes home do not give him BBBJ, I also doubt the majority of the dancers would let him do DATY if he wants to.

4- Joey is over 50, his trips are very short and he says every night he takes a dancer home, I doubt he fucks her more than one time.

5- the majority of the time he is just talking to her

So, he is really paying over $450 for less than 3 hours for covered blow job and lots of talking, I guess Joey thinks this is great sex, its really dumb to fly over 24 hours just for this, LOL

Its interesting how an old man from NY takes so much time writing all these long posts pimping a night club and only travels to Kiev for RIO, LOL.

Hey Joey, are sure you are not the old English teacher who gives English lessons to dancers at RIO?

LilJoey
04-30-12, 21:00
This is what Joey gets from the RIO girls:

1- When you add the cost of his trip he is really paying over $450 for every meeting.

2- I seriously doubt the majority of the dancers stay with him for the full 3 hours.

3- I would say 9 out of every 10 dancer he takes home do not give him BBBJ, I also doubt the majority of the dancers would let him do DATY if he wants to.

4- Joey is over 50, his trips are very short and he says every night he takes a dancer home, I doubt he fucks her more than one time.

5- the majority of the time he is just talking to her

So, he is really paying over $450 for less than 3 hours for covered blow job and lots of talking, I guess Joey thinks this is great sex, its really dumb to fly over 24 hours just for this, LOL.

Its interesting how an old man from NY takes so much time writing all these long posts pimping a night club and only travels to Kiev for RIO, LOL.

Hey Joey, are sure you are not the old English teacher who gives English lessons to dancers at RIO?Muddy, your obsession with how much pleasure my penis actually had with the girls I fucked in Kiev is bordering on abnormal and more than just a little bit weird. Trust me I had a great time, and don't give a hoot for what you think or what you doubt. You had no fun in Kiev with the Rio girls and Gia girls you spent Most of your time with? Sorry to hear it. Why didn't you try mamba or the nightclubs more, as was being recommended by other veterans, if you didn't have enough fun with the Rio and Gia girls you reported on?

Your silliness is becoming more and more evident as you continue to post additional of your "muddled thoughts". Unless you improve the quality of your posting, I shall have to think of you henceforth as "Muddly" instead of Muddy, since your thoughts are muddled. You are taunting me for being an "old man" because I am over 50? Really? With this you alienate and offend many if not most of the readers of this forum who are more on in years than you may be.

I tried to answer your questions about what I do in a 3 hour date in good faith, assuming you wanted to learn something useful about how to handle girls from Rio. I explained to you in good faith that I prefer prolonging the sexual session for at least more than 2 of the 3 hours, rather than trying to get off twice with shorter fucks, and that this preference was due to my own limitations of popping twice within two hours if it was after a few days of mongering. I was being candid, in order to illustrate for others who are in my position, what I felt is a better strategy than trying to cum twice in a 3 hour date. I didn't realize you were an idiot with no real interest in the answer.

I have always faithfully reported when any girl denied me services, what those services were, and which girl it was, in order to provide an accurate pool of information for other members of ISG. Likewise when I report that I did get certain services from specific girls, I have reported these things accurately. Your attempts to confuse the facts and pollute the pool of useful information are destructive. Malicious behavior like that on this forum should be banned.

What the fuck do I care that you doubt this or that? You are a nobody. You can report your own experiences. That's what this forum is for. But, Where do you come off trying to go into my bedroom and second guess me? Your posts demonstrate that you spent most of your time reporting on girls from Rio and escorts from Gia. If you failed to get a bb blowjob from a girl that I succeeded in getting it from, perhaps you had body odor, or perhaps your true personality (which we are seeing in your recent posts is not very pleasant) came shining through and she couldn't wait to get away from you. Who knows? Who cares? We all know YMMV with each girl.

I also wrote in response to one of your questions, that my visits to Kiev are occasioned by being in Europe for other purposes, and that I rarely make a special trip from NY to Kiev. You persistently ignore that. But, no matter, it is also my opinion that Kiev is a great mongering destination for guys from USA just for the mongering opportunities. It is a fact that one can have a high level beauty in Kiev for the entire night, for the price such a High level beautiful girl would cost in NY for ONE hour. That's a fact. This you ignore too. So you keep repeating that you think it's silly to come from NY to Kiev for p4p with Kiev's gorgeous girls. You're entitled to your opinion. Does it bother you soooo much that I and others disagree with you and consider Kiev an eminently worthy mongering destination, all relative things considered?

Your own posts, Muddy, detail your episodes with Rio dancers and Gia escorts for the most part. You have very little experience in Kiev's other mongering opportunities for such a big mouth.

I have investigated it all and experienced most of the Kiev mongering options over the last few years. For me it is a question of the lower cost option for the highest quality girls that were easily obtainable on a more or less guaranteed basis each night into my bed. Previously that meant a trip to River Palace if nothing satisfactory came from top-modals or mamba. After the demise of RP, at the end of 2010, there was a period of trying to find the hottest WG's in the nightclubs, after which it became clear that they were asking very high prices and were not negotiating down to the lower prices of $200 as had been possible at RP, and seemed stuck on a bottom price of $300/2hours. Because of this, Rio emerged as a lower priced option at $300/3hours during 2011. Recently, some veterans have reported that it is now again possible to get high level hotties in the nightclubs for $200/2 hours or less. Therefore, that seems to be where the focus of time and attention should be, replacing Rio as a first choice. I have accepted their reports and have written this recommendation in my reports since that time. Those are the facts. *

I do not and have never "shilled" for any venue, and such a stupid suggestion comes only from a stupid or malicious mind. I have Only faithfully reported and recommended to newbies coming to Kiev who need guidance that no one else was giving, throughout the year 2011 and continuing into this year, about how and where to find the hottest girls for the lowest price with the quickest efficiency during a short trip to Kiev. During 2011 that turned out to be at Rio as a result of the higher prices being asked by regular nightclub WG's. In the days of River Palace, I wasn't going to Rio or recommending it. My accurate recommendations are a factor of the actual conditions on the ground with respect to the actual prices being asked in various mongering venues. My recommendations will change with the conditions on the ground as I personally find them, or as have been reported on this thread by persons whom I consider reliable. I have decided that Cruiser D's recommendations and reports about conditions in the regular nightclubs of prices of $200/2hours or lower are reliable. So my recommendations for where it is best to try first in Kiev to get a true hottie have shifted from Rio to the nightclubs, on the basis of his reports. It is my intention for my next trip Probably in September to follow my own recommendations and see if I can succeed in pulling very hot WG's from the Regular nightclubs within a reasonable amount of time for the lower prices I used to get them for at RP of $200/2hours maximum, and lower if possible. And places like Rio or Mandarin will be a back up, in case time is short, or I'm not successful in getting what I want at a nightclub. I recommend that as the strategy for you too, or any others coming to Kiev.

Remember, for those interested in facts and knowledge on how best to plan a trip and the usage of their time, It is the facts of where the prices are the lowest for getting the highest level beauty WG's, in a reasonably efficient manner, that drives the recommendation, not any extraneous agenda.

Now perhaps it is a vain hope that you will let well enough alone. Suffice it to say that Further false comments designed to confuse the facts reported are destructive to the goals of this forum.

Ronaldinjo
04-30-12, 22:18
1. Dear Lj, in my opinion your contribution to forum is great and I'm sure you are not shilling for anyone. You like Rio girls so much and dreaming about them, and there are really some attractive girls there (although minority) and you enjoy them. So I don't understand what people want from you, its your money, your life and you can pay 10000$ or 70$ per girls. Its your buziness.

2. Muddy, your reports are usufull either and help us, but your attack toward Lj is not understood. It seems your standarts are very high (you gave almost none over 8) , but it doesn't mean that Lj goes for awarage girls, I'm sure Lj is happy with his girls, and what can be for you 7 can be for Lj and me 9 and vise versa. Beauty is on the eyes of beholder, so those mutual attact won't help none of us.

3. Uk boy (cruizer the?) , I'm avare asking a lot of questions and I'm flying to Kiev very soon, so I make myself ready in Rio point of view (Ljs and Muddies comments help a lot IMHO) , it doesn't meen I'm going to go to Rio day by day, but to be prepared for girls services there, not to waist too much money. I already picked up 30 phones numbers from attractive girls in mamba (hope at least 30% are real pics LOL) , among them 4 freebies. It is maybe true, what can be for me 9 can be 6 or 5 for you and vise versa. I'm not hopeless as you think, I'm attractive latino male who banged a lot of attractive freebies in his life. 95% of men in this world would be happy to exchange with my past expiriances, and you can be sure that I'm very picky. Now I'm travelling for 3 days only, so I don't have entire days to run after girls in maidan squire. Mamba, club girls (delux, buddha, vodka bar) and Rio (and maybe dolls) seem wright option for me. You are welcome to ask questions and I will answer you patiently and nicely (as Lj and Muddy (mostly) do. If my questions makes you (or someone else) angry you can skip them. Agressiveness will not get us nowhere.

With respect gyes, Ronaldinjo

Slavophile
04-30-12, 22:56
I know I have no right weighing in here, but from time to time I really do like to read the Kiev forum, though I live and work in Prague and often monger in Warsaw as some of you may know.

I think an individual who posted a bit ago said it best, everyone is entitled to their subjective view point and it's absolutely futile to argue with one another about looks of girls and a variety of other issues which are raised.

I suppose it's interesting to post or for the sake of conversation to know what man considers a "stunner" and the other considers a wildebeest.

It is good intel to discuss level of service, but LJ is right circumstances dictate a lot and that goes with getting any girl in any environment, let alone a paid service circumstance. In the end, it's truly up to the woman's discretion.

I don't think it's sexy to insist a woman to engage in service she is uncomfortable or unwilling to do. It takes the pleasure, the hotness and the sexiness out of the whole damn thing.

I do know some girls try to play the fool after the terms were discussed, but they're short money thinkers and that will catch up to them.

To each his own" has never been a more accurate statement. LJ has always said that in his opinion, if you don't have time to waste and time to do the leg work before you arrive to Kiev, he suggests Rio, which is a brilliant suggestion for those circumstances.

I agree, if you are not good at calling girls cold on the phone or at a dance club but want to get your dick wet, Rio is his top choice for that. He's basically saying it's like shooting fish in a barrel, if you go to Rio. Cheers to LJ for that detailed intel.

I say let him say his peace, just take it or leave it. Don't get personal gentlemen. We are all in this together trying to find the best quality girl, with a great attitude, superb service and good times without emptying your child's college fund.

I do think those prices are ridiculous considering the average wage in Ukraine, a fact I'm sure has already been made.

There has to be some gems to be found at half that price. I really do think that's a little out of hand for one woman in the Ukraine, but hey that's my opinion.

Is there anything more provocative in the Ukraine to be found? I am into Swinging and group environments right now. Does Kiev have a Swing scene or clubs? Gang-bangs?

I only ask because the 5 things that stick in my head and that I take away on the Kiev forum lately, is use mamba, Gia, Rio and staying away from Buddha Bar, oh, and the ridiculous rating of girls while knowing each man has his own preference and standards of attractiveness.

Now go monger in peace my dear brothers.

Slavophile

Uke Boy
05-04-12, 20:32
LJ, I want to address your posts and your approach to mongering in Kiev, and just in general.

First, you can scream, yell, curse me and worst of all, write Tolstoy length posts that will put us all to sleep. However, there is no way for you to convince me that you, at the very least, do not get some in-kind payment from Rio in return for your promotion of Rio. The length, depth and breadth of your posts, including who will be dancing, and when, is strictly insider-provided information. I do not care what you say, from my POV and from others, you are definitely a shill for Rio.

That said, we await your recent reformist words that there are better options than Rio. We will see but I hope you prove me wrong.

You and I in our approaches are universes apart. Even if you are not shilling for Rio, your "here's my strip club, pay a lot of money for take-out (not just the $300 for 3 hours but the overall cost of the trip amortized over the whole amount of sex) , get no value for the session (no to DATY, no BBBJ, no nothing) , is a complete cock tease where I come from. It is a total waste of time and money. It continues the strip club rip-off tradition.

Additionally I will not take your challenge to see the dancers since I will not waste my money in what I consider a third-class sleazy joint with what has been reported by others to be ordinary trash.

I am in Amman Jordan right now on a consulting assignment. Last night I had fun with a very attractive MILF from Belarus. All night damages were $140, 100 JD. I just happened to run into her at one of the malls. I heard her speaking on her phone, waited until she stopped and then asked her for help in Russian, One thing led to another like coffee and dinner and then to bed. OK, so dinner and coffee cost me an extra $30 for her but I don't count that.

Now I am also, like you. 50+. However, there are neither strip clubs here nor massage parlors and action is very limited. I suspect that you would die here of boredom not knowing what to do. What you want is easy pickings. What I want is a challenge and to win it. Last night, I did. I do not always win but I sure have fun trying and do not regret one moment, even a loss since I also learn from that.

Your constant promotion of Rio really does a great disservice to all reading the forum. There are a lot of opportunities outside of this one club of yours. For non-Russian speakers, it can be an enormous challenge but trying is really the key. Any asshole can go to a strip club like your Rio club and spend enormous amounts of money and then get royally screwed as they always do, except you, of course.

Let's hope we hear much less or preferably nothing from you about Rio and more about other venues and possibilities.

Climaxnow
05-04-12, 21:05
LJ, I want to address your posts and your approach to mongering in Kiev, and just in general.

First, you can scream, yell, curse me and worst of all, write Tolstoy length posts that will put us all to sleep. However, there is no way for you to convince me that you, at the very least, do not get some in-kind payment from Rio in return for your promotion of Rio. The length, depth and breadth of your posts, including who will be dancing, and when, is strictly insider-provided information. I do not care what you say, from my POV and from others, you are definitely a shill for Rio.There's just no way this guy was traveling over seas for $300 covered blow jobs in the wee hours. It's obvious now that once River Palace closed he was hired to direct the Kiev newbies into Rio. To his credit, quite the persuasive salesman he was.

Poker Player 2
05-04-12, 23:39
my first trip to kiev.

having read the forum carefully and assessed my own personal situation, i had decided to rely on gia agency for much of my entertainment needs in kiev. i had tried to arrange booking with gia in advance and had penciled in 6 of their girls but kristina who was corresponding with me from gia basically told me to contact the agency on the day of the date and check on availability so nothing was booked in advance. however nothing turned out as expected.

in this report, i will, in as much detail as i remember, discuss my trip to kiev and the impressions i formed dealing with different businesses and services. a little about me: on the negative side, i don't get to travel very often purely for pleasure, and i am on the wrong side of 50. on the positive side, i don't really have a budget as such, dress well, am somewhat familiar with ee woman mentality from my younger years and speak some broken russian.

i booked a flight from frankfurt to kiev with ukraine international airlines. a couple of points to note: the ukraine airlines operates from terminal 2 (air train and bus available from terminal 1) and the signs for the ukraine airline (unlike other airline signs) are very small. the terminal 2 itself is not large but i had to ask the aeroflot kiosk where the ukraine airline kiosk was as i could not find it. give yourself extra time dealing with the ukraine airline: i had to check in luggage and it took me one hour and 10 minutes to check in. there were only 15-20 people in the queue but ukrainians are not good at queuing and i think the attendants work at their own pace!

once you arrive at the airport in kiev, if you are not sure whether you have to fill out the custom form, on the wall behind the luggage carousels you will see instructions printed in english. i asked two different custom officers and they gave me different answers before i found the written instructions. if you have more the 10, 000 euros on your person, you must certainly fill out the form.

the kiev apts man is there at the airport to pick me up which was a pleasant surprise. i have arrived during the evening rush hour and evgeny drives at a brisk pace in to the center of the city. i have two memories from the ride from the airport. one is the general condition of the row after row of apartment buildings that look fairly old and honestly bad! secondly, i don't usually comment on other people's driving but at some point i am convinced that evgeny is about to hit a pedestrian and i whisper estrojnah (be careful). this is met swiftly and firmly by evgeny telling that he has been driving for 35 years and he has not had any accidents; or only one as he later corrects himself. this experience serves me right for opening my mouth.

as for accommodation, i had considered premiere palace before reading the forum but after reading and comparing prices, i ended up going with kiev apts. i had requested apartment number 223 (http://www.kievapts.com/apartment_details.php?id=223) close to rio club but it was not available and arik from kiev apts suggested this apartment: http://www.kievapts.com/apartment_details.php?id=716. let me say that this apartment is photographed very well on their website. in reality, the carpet in the living room is very old and dirty looking as is the shower itself. this apartment is on the 6th floor and there is an elevator. the elevator is the smallest i have seen in my life and fits evgeny who is a large man well but no one else unless you want to feel close to evgeny. i select to walk up the stairs which is a treat: the stair way affords you the view of broken windows, cigarette buts on the floor, distinct smell of [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) and a view of the open electrical wiring. the good news is that you get used to all this and not even notice it after a while. on my second day, somebody got stuck in the elevator. i mainly walked the stairs during my 5 nights and four day stay. i almost forgot to mention, there was an open but unused condom on the night stand in the bedroom of apartment 716. no doubt, it was left by one of the distinguished isg members as i can only describe the size of the condom as extra-extra large! they advertise that this apartment has air conditioning; well it does strictly speaking but if you are expecting central air conditioning, you are sadly mistaken. there is a contraption in the living room which i don't know how to describe. the bedroom does have a fan which is a life saver as kiev is very hot they days i am there reaching highs of 32c over the weekend. as you have gathered, i was not thrilled by the apartment over all.

the first order of business after a quick shower is to go and change money and go to billa market for some food and drinks. please note that you do need your passport to change currency. it is my first night and i wonder aimlessly out. it is very hot in kiev this week and the sites and sounds of kiev are truly special to me. i just don't know where to look next; every direction provides me a spectacular view of a beautiful young girl. on my first night, i end up at arena bar where i watch a thrilling football (soccer) match in which the german team bayern munich beats real madrid on penalties. there are bored and more mature pros at the bar which frankly i find not so inspiring. i don't bother with a quote as i am not sure if i am willing to spend money on any of them to be honest. i meet a taxi driver who takes me to penthaus strip club and promises me office girls at rates comparable to gia girls. i later learn that this taxi driver wanted to take me to apartments and did not really know any civilians who worked part-time as i had previously hoped he could provide. i did not use his services as he was quoting me 200 usd per hour for apartment girls. penthaus strip club consists of one main room where on this evening were there customers and 5 stripers and one very cute cocktail waitress. the dancers look bored and they don't go bottomless when they dance. the dancers do expect a tip after their routine is finished and came to each of three patrons at the club to collect. one of the girls came to me after her routine, scolded me for not sitting with a girl and then brushes her leg against me and then tells me that i must tip her now as i have touched her. i had her tip in my hand anyhow and was certainly going to tip her but i decide to leave now. as i am about to leave, the administrator (alexander) comes to me to introduce himself. we chat mainly in russian as he does not appear to speak any english. i tip him the customary 100 grv. as i understand him, take out is available but i tell him i am not interested in the dancers but want the cocktail waitress! yes i know i am a greedy bastard! alexander appears confused and calls over the cocktail waitress for translation! i repeat my request and she translates and looks bewildered and surprised. i would have been embarrassed ordinarily given the circumstance but i have been to ee before. the conversation ends abruptly and i leave the club as the cocktail waitress is certainly not available. it is 3 am and i go home to sleep a little.

the next day (thursday) , i decide to treat myself for the first time to a body massage. i call an agency and i meet ms marina (fictitious name). for reasons that will become very apparent, i can not give her real name to protect the guilty! those of you who have not tried an exotic massage in ee, i urge you reconsider. i was hooked once she turned me over on my back. you basically get a back massage with oil and then she massages you with her breasts and body and then turns you over for a hand relief. i don't know what is usually permitted but kissing is permitted, i furiously sucked on her breasts and had a finger in her pussy as she was sorting me out. i immediately decide i will have massages every day i am in kiev to start the day in the right way. she is up to it but tells me that she does not work on the weekend. marina is very agreeable and sweet girl and is a joy to speak with. this girl has a wonderful marketable skill and i adore her for it always!

i run in to a bar called lucky where i have some lunch and beer and watch some more football. in this bar, i meet a very nice finnish fellow who is a lot of fun to hang out with- we exchange phone numbers and arrange to meet in the evening. i go to lucky bar very often during my stay as i like talking with the english speaking bartenders and waitresses who are fun (civilian of course). i solicit their views of the world; particularly ukrainian politics. they are willing to listen to my crap mainly because i am generally listening, not talking and because i tip by american standards (15-20%). no doubt some isg members may now object to how i choose to spend my money. it is interesting to note that julia tymoshenko is not as popular with these young people as she is in the west.

in the evening, my finnish friend and i went to vodka bar. this bar has been written about plenty in the forum. i would only add that it is full of younger ukrainians, it is better to go around 1am i would think (not too early) and that i got the impression that it is possible to score freebie if you are young enough and have some game. i did not see any obvious working girls. after vodka bar, we made our way to budha bar which has also been written about extensively in the forum. here is my experience: the bar counter area is mainly populated by sex workers; pros in the worst sense of the word. the attitude is poor and contempt is hardly concealed. there are some good looking girls here but honestly i would not consider spending anytime with any of them not so much for the prices (read world prices) but because of the attitude. one of the lesser girls named irina with dark hair comes to me and my finnish friend to chat. her second sentence contains the phrase $300 for an unknown length of time. i want to politely refuse so i ask for service provided and she responds: klassika and orala so i immediately ask for oral bez condom thinking she will refuse but she agrees to that reluctantly but i am not tempted at all and this actually makes me trust her even less. after she gives up on m, she works my finnish friend; he does not share any of my reservations and after two minutes, my finnish friend leaves with irina and leaves me alone at the bar. on the positive side, the bar is plush, the staff is professional and i can recommend the cairo martini on the menu. the price food and beverage prices are not low!

the next day, i speak with my finnish friend and he tells me that irina took 250 euros from him and after the first shot wanted to leave. my finnish friend persuades her to stay for a second shot for an extra 50 euros. regrettably, i was correct in my assessment of the budha bar girls; only add dishonesty to the list as well!

i wake up on friday late morning and get my massage service ordered and request the same girl. she comes and today's session is even better than yesterday's. today we have a drink together first (her first taste of crown royal) and she is very loose. she tells me that the next two days she is not working but will come and see me around noon on saturday. i tell her that would be fine and propose that she spends the weekend with me in order to show me kiev. she does not commit either way but tells me she will visit me tomorrow for a massage. in the early evening, i call gia and speak with kristina. she sounds inconvenienced when i call and tells me to text her my address and the girl i want to see. she does not respond for hours. by 21. 00, i get a text from her that she is with one of her 'top girls' and that she will call me later. she never did call back and i did not disturb her again. gia management may run their business as they see fit and i believe i have the right to spend my money as i see fit. my engagement with gia ageny came to a conclusion before it started.

with my finnish friend in tow, we go to the legendary rio club at about mid-night. it is very busy by all accounts and we wait in the sushi bar downstairs before we are offered bar seats by the wall in the upstairs bar. i speak with the administrator alexander and give him a tip but it does not do us any good; the vip room is full and we can not be moved. a party of three men joins the crowd in the bar. this party contains one middle aged american who is very loud and strongly feels that his party deserves only the best. alexander nicely but firmly tells him that the place is full and there are no alternatives. the american fellow is accompanied by two brits; one of whom tells him to keep quiet as the entire bar is staring at him. the american fellow, to his credit gets it and keeps quiet for a while. my finnish friend appears very familiar with the phrase 'ugly american' and chooses to reminisce in his usual loud voice about another time when he witnessed an american acting as if 'owned the place'. my finnish friend senses my embarrassment and tells me that i am different of course. i want to protest but the evidence is too damning for now. for the record, i would like to mention that i witnessed many non-native english speakers behaving poorly as well. we leave rio after about one hour but i have seen enough to warrant a return. the women we saw were very fine even though most of the finest were taken out already that evening.

after rio, we discover the sky bar (part of the arena complex) which was interesting. sky may be an exaggeration as the club is probably 6 floors up but it offers a decent view. entrance fee was not cheap at 200 grv. once the elevator door opens, you get loud music, dancers on stage, and reserved tables with lots of local rich ukrainian young adults spending a lot of money. the crowd is quite beautiful and many are dressed in designer clothes. there are a couple of pros here but nothing to my taste. it was 3 am by now and the place was full and people were partying hard and with a vengeance. i don't think i have seen such spirit since the late 90s in moscow. we leave this fire hazard hall and outside we meet many babushkas and young children selling flowers and such. when i refuse to buy flowers, they start begging. malchick, koushet, pejalsta (some boy not eating right apparently). if you give money to one, the rest will not leave you alone! all this in the midst of young ukrainian men maneuvering their flashy cars (i think bmws and lexus suvs are in fashion with the young and beautiful in kiev) and picking up their dates on the street outside the arena complex.

saturday brings my masseur marina to my apartment. she has decided to stay with me for the weekend and show me around kiev. it doesn't happen as we had originally discussed and we stay indoors and only go out for food and fresh air. i will have to do sight seeing next trip perhaps. our arrangement is that i pay for daily massage service with her and i make a vague promise to take care of her. she is a lot of fun to be with and very open to everything so much so that i have to insist on condom for sex! she eventually leaves on sunday evening and i give her what i consider to be fair for her time with me. i will not tell the forum how much i gave her as i am certain i will be subject to abuse (perhaps earned abuse!) for some time to come. i leave the money on the table for her and she asks me if this is all hers and looks surprised to say the least. she comes over to me and kisses me ends up on her knees and gives me a memorable bj cim. i just don't know how they keep eye contact while performing and the thank you at the end is too much for me! i become teary eyed just typing these words.

sunday evening is my last night in kiev and i am alone so i head to the legendary rio club for a return visit. i am determined to be early so i get to see all the girls and get to the infamous vip room if possible. i am the first customer arriving at 21. 00. after my weekend activities, my body is already spent so i am not planning a take out girl but want to watch the show and perhaps get a few privates before heading home and preparing for my flight the next morning. one thing about my time in kiev i can share with you is that plans change as kiev is a very dynamic environment. i had 5 privates: 2 with dasha. 1 with elena, darina and masha. they were all a lot better than anything you can expect to get in na! dasha was the first and i kept searching for limits of what was not allowed in a private. here is what i found: she sweetly pulled my finger out of her privates and at one stage, she had inversed herself with her hand on the floor while i was seated with her legs around my head (if you can picture the scene). with her beautiful shaved pussy in my face, i allowed instinct to take over and buried my tongue which she objected to with a broad grin&61514; apart from that i can really recommend a private! as it turns out the next day is may 1 and a holiday in ukraine (and much of europe) and there is hardly anyone in the club. dasha is as sweet a girl you would wish to meet and anyhow we arrange for a take out. as stated elsewhere it is $300 for 3 hours. i have an issue as i only came to the club with 3000 grv and i have to go back to my apartment to get money and come for dasha. dressed in jeans and flat shoes, dasha joins me outside and promptly jumps up and kisses me on the lips, holds my hand and we start walking. i ignore the taxis outside of rio as they annoy me! i only have beer at home and dasha is fine with that. she showers and places 3 condoms on the night stand which makes me smile. i have had a full weekend with marina and three shots are not going to happen. dasha is gentle, sweet, highly skilled and affectionate lover. at one stage, i decide to see if i can throw her off her game by accusing her of being an ochen horosho aktreska (very good actress). she simply smiles, puts her arms around my neck and kisses me passionately with her tongue. i just don't have a good come back for that so i abandon any attempts at messing with her and simply decide to enjoy the session with her. after the first pop and a quick shower, she wants a second but i explain to her that may not happen. she will not hear of it and then proceeds to work her magic with her tongue (bareback) and somehow makes me ready within minutes. condom on and she jumps on top. what a girl! through out the session she remains respectful and sweet- finest sex worker i have been with ever. we talk about rio club as well and i am not sure what the truth about what she told me. dasha tells me that she has worked at the club for 9 months and plans on working there for 6 years! she tells me that the girls get to keep the money from privates and all the money when they go out with men. she also tells me that to some extent they have a say over which man they go out with. this is especially true when the club is busy so you get to choose but the girls do as well. obviously privates are a good place to get to know the girl and allow her to get to know you. the charge for privates is 200 grv.

the next morning, evgeny from kiev apts comes to collect me to take me to the airport. he is on time exactly and the ride to the airport is uneventful as he points out all the construction which is happening in kiev in preparation for the european football championship. evgeny gave me back all my deposits in full in cash. the flight with ukrainian airline is delayed on the tarmac for about 45 minutes. it is about 28 celsius outside and without any air conditioning available to the passengers inside, the temperature is uncomfortable. seated next to me is a mother with an infant with very red cheeks who is clearly uncomfortable. i give the ukrainian passengers credit; not one of them complains. i ask for water to use to spray on my face to keep cool; the flight attendant tells me it will be fine once we get in to the air! as we arrive in the cool, grey city of frankfurt and 15 celsius weather, i decide i would like to visit kiev again&61514;

evaluations\ random thoughts

ukrainian women: it is my contention that when they are about 14, the girls are sent to a special institute for a two semester course. semester one teaches them how to swing their hips when they walk, walk in high heels and makes them real comfortable wearing very short skirts. semester two course concentrates on teaching them how to please a man. the number of teens\young adults dressed to impress in the current hot kiev weather was staggering. as for sex with ukrainian girls, they know how to please me for sure! many (but by no means all) ukrainian young girls are tall, thin and are not shy about showing their figures. the ukrainian men, i would not describe as brutally handsome but perhaps more as brutes&61514; it is interesting to note that many of the young ukrainian women with their fabulous figures lose their edge once they reach middle age. i remember assessing the plane full of ukrainians and thinking that these folks look very ordinary indeed.

flights: i selected ukrainian airline mainly based on price. even though i loved it when the mainly ukrainian passenger burst in to applause when the plane successfully lands, i think i will go with a different airline next time.

accommodation: not fully satisfied with the apartment rented through kiev apts, i went to look at premiere palace hotel one day while in kiev to evaluate alternatives. i went to the bar for a drink of mineral water (50 grv) and i was left with the impression that they don't understand that world class service is not just about fancy staff uniforms, horrific looking security guards and world class prices! the bartender managed to serve and collect the money from me without a word or any kind of facial expressions and at least two patrons came to the bar area to request waitress service. the bar area was not even particularly busy. you can buy world class service in russia but not ukraine i deducted. paying the prices premiere palace charge to me is like paying for a first class flight ticket but not getting the more comfortable seats; it just does not make sense! i will go with kiev apts or similar outfit next time.

gia agency: i think i made my thoughts clear earlier. again, you are dealing with a business which is a market leader when it comes to price but fails to distinguish itself from other providers in the market. it is a bit like premiere palace above: it doesn't make sense as it fails to deliver on service. i shall not pay for contempt!

rio club: this is one business in ukraine that does distinguish itself. i know there has been much discussion about which room is the best and which girls is the best looking. gentlemen, the girls at rio are fine. i spent time in all 4 rooms at rio club and the girls are fine (apart from maybe a couple of exceptions). as many have pointed out which girl appeals to you is a complicated process involving two human beings. dasha which i raved about above may well be rated as 7 by most distinguished member of this forum but to me she was a 10++. rio also distinguished itself on service: it is run by a professional management team. the girls are nice always (we all know girls get out of hand at times in strip clubs) , the administrators are all professional and polite including dmitri, alexander and mark- well worth a tip from us. i noticed that the administrators even check the bill and sign before it is presented to me; again i think they do that for your protection and convenience. rio club is as sweet as it gets; you get to view girls dancing in their shorts, have privates with them and them take them out to your place. i don't know how long this will last but i it doesn't get sweeter than this. does it.

Nmlfree
05-05-12, 01:16
Just some stats of my experience.

I had 4 girls from there.

2 allowed DATY. 2 others just placed their hand in front of their pussy. After licking the inner thigh for a while, they wouldn't resist and when I gentily push away their arm, none resisted.

About BBBJ only 1 of them did it after she felt more comfortable.

So.

100% DATY.

25% BBBJ.

Not great.

Ronaldinjo
05-05-12, 12:53
Well I arrived early morning from portugal, weather was superb, very hot as I like it. Got 30 mamba numbers (some of them freebies). Well boys, firs mamba girl convinced me that sexy pics are hers, so I invited her and she was ugly like a hell. I send her home without any taxy fee, she didn't seem surpriced. 2 other mamba girls were so so, one of them matched the girl in the pic, but was less beautifull in reality, about 6 for me. Gave them 25 gryvnas for taxis. Was dissapointed, but decided to give last try. So called one beauty, Olya. 22 year old, that sweared pics were hers (before meeting her I didt know if she was freebie or semipro) , so we met in the evening, wow, what a beauty she was, very beautiful even for kievs standarts, an 9 for me at least, and I'm very picky. We dined, talked, her english was better than mine. Blond, great body beautiful face, as in pics, so after hours of talking and walking through kreshatik we came to my place. Before it she made me clear that she needed money for her mothers operation (it casted 3000 $). So we agreed to spend time 350 $ till the mornin untill 10 o clock, and what a night it was, I was like dreaming, I was drained out of sperm that night, I have cum 4 times, she is great, real godess. Best sex in my life. She sweared that it was her first time and last time to make sex for money, and she would very much would like to meet me once more, even for less money. So great deal. 350$ for at least 12-14 hours with her. Gave her 30$ tip that she didn't want to take initially. I feel lucky and very happy. Much better deal than in Rio, and she was better looking than most beautiful girl in Rio.

Next day I felt great fatigue, called one beautiful girl, Ksiusha, an 7. 5 for me, matched the pics, damage was 800 gryvnas / h, very long one session (I'm not yang any more) and send her home.

At nigh went to Rio, the show was not bad, even though I noticed a fall down compared to my previous time there, saw some beauties in VIP and bar, Katrin, nice pettite, beautiful face, but unfortunately no takeout, Rosa, beautiful face, pettite, Sofia, beautiful tits and body, face less so, Marina (Mariana?) , blond, beautiful face, nice body, don't know if takeout possible, Dasha, brunete, pettite, sexy girl, Katya, great body, but small tits, Ada, nice girl, Bella, nice girl, good body. But my Olya was better than best girls in Rio. Was wery tired that day, spoke to some girls, agreed for 2 privats, had a nice time, dreamd about Olya, wow.

And one more thing, I noticed that ukrainian girls are very fond of dark boys, portugueese, spanish, italians, turks and arabs. Much more than bright americans, english, scandinavians and germans, that what a lot of girls told me.

Ronaldinjo
05-05-12, 13:01
Rio is not bad place, there were some cute babes there, but after my night with Olya I didn't see that any girl was worth for takeout there, and I was very tired too. Had a privat with Dasha, suppose the same girl you took home, small brunette who dances acrobatically, am I wright? I don't think she will be rated as 7 by most boys here, she certainely was at least 8 physically, do you agree with me? She had great body and beautiful face, but didn't like her attitude. Maybe we were both wery tired that midnight. But her privat was good. Maybe next time.

Climaxnow
05-05-12, 14:14
Its become obvious to me that this thread has been corrupted by shills promoting the venue known as Rio. I would like to share what you can truly expect in this place. Rio strip club is an expensive option in Kiev. The average cost of a girl is about $400 when you average the expense of drinks, dances, tips and whatever. The first disappointment that will strike you is that the girls are just not that hot (mostly 7's and 8's). The second disappointment is that not all the girls are available for carry out. I visited this place once a week for three weeks straight and never took a girl home. I could afford one of these girls every night of my stay in Kiev but I do not like wasting my money. Here are the real problems. I am in my early forties with a strong sex drive, but sex in the wee hours reduces me to half of my true self. I'm not a very experienced monger but I know that covered blow jobs and no DATY is basically not acceptable. Others will tell you that they "broke through the barrier" or YMMV but this is all straight bullshit when it comes to the girls in Rio nightclub. Here is why. Rio is a unique venue in Kiev where girls can prostitute themselves without any transmission of bodily fluid. If the girls were open to being better performers, most would not work here.

Senior members of this thread have tried to forewarn the newbies about the reality of this place. Be careful of what you read here, you don't want to be misguided by slick writers with ulterior motives.

Muddy7
05-05-12, 14:59
Its become obvious to me that this thread has been corrupted by shills promoting the venue known as Rio. I would like to share what you can truly expect in this place. Rio strip club is an expensive option in Kiev. The average cost of a girl is about $400 when you average the expense of drinks, dances, tips and whatever. The first disappointment that will strike you is that the girls are just not that hot (mostly 7's and 8's). The second disappointment is that not all the girls are available for carry out. I visited this place once a week for three weeks straight and never took a girl home. I could afford one of these girls every night of my stay in Kiev but I do not like wasting my money. Here are the real problems. I am in my early forties with a strong sex drive, but sex in the wee hours reduces me to half of my true self. I'm not a very experienced monger but I know that covered blow jobs and no DATY is basically not acceptable. Others will tell you that they "broke through the barrier" or YMMV but this is all straight bullshit when it comes to the girls in Rio nightclub. Here is why. Rio is a unique venue in Kiev where girls can prostitute themselves without any transmission of bodily fluid. If the girls were open to being better performers, most would not work here.

Senior members of this thread have tried to forewarn the newbies about the reality of this place. Be careful of what you read here, you don't want to be misguided by slick writers with ulterior motives.Good post, I agree

Ignore posts by LilJoey, he is a shill.

If a monger is a retard and travels to Kiev just for RIO then the cost is more than $400, I would say over $500 (cost of tickets, apartment, food,.) for every RIO girl he takes home , there is a retard who posts here and travels to Kiev just for RIO and he thinks RIO dancers are costing him only $300, LOL

Prosal
05-05-12, 19:21
Good post, I agree

Ignore posts by LilJoey, he is a shill.

If a monger is a retard and travels to Kiev just for RIO then the cost is more than $400, I would say over $500 (cost of tickets, apartment, food.) for every RIO girl he takes home, there is a retard who posts here and travels to Kiev just for RIO and he thinks RIO dancers are costing him only $300, LOLAs long as Lilijoey enjoy it and can afford it, I don't see the problem. I don't partake his hobby and don't really read his sanguine posts about Rio, but he is enthousiastic in a genuine way, polite and never dogmatic, so live and let live. If you don't like his posts put him in your ignore list, no need to be offensive.

CityHunter77
05-05-12, 23:10
Well I arrived early morning from portugal, weather was superb, very hot as I like it. Got 30 mamba numbers (some of them freebies). Well boys, firs mamba girl convinced me that sexy pics are hers, so I invited her and she was ugly like a hell. I send her home without any taxy fee, she didn't seem surpriced. 2 other mamba girls were so so, one of them matched the girl in the pic, but was less beautifull in reality, about 6 for me. Gave them 25 gryvnas for taxis. Was dissapointed, but decided to give last try. So called one beauty, Olya. 22 year old, that sweared pics were hers (before meeting her I didt know if she was freebie or semipro) , so we met in the evening, wow, what a beauty she was, very beautiful even for kievs standarts, an 9 for me at least, and I'm very picky. We dined, talked, her english was better than mine. Blond, great body beautiful face, as in pics, so after hours of talking and walking through kreshatik we came to my place. Before it she made me clear that she needed money for her mothers operation (it casted 3000 $). So we agreed to spend time 350 $ till the mornin untill 10 o clock, and what a night it was, I was like dreaming, I was drained out of sperm that night, I have cum 4 times, she is great, real godess. Best sex in my life. She sweared that it was her first time and last time to make sex for money, and she would very much would like to meet me once more, even for less money. So great deal. 350$ for at least 12-14 hours with her. Gave her 30$ tip that she didn't want to take initially. I feel lucky and very happy. Much better deal than in Rio, and she was better looking than most beautiful girl in Rio.

Next day I felt great fatigue, called one beautiful girl, Ksiusha, an 7. 5 for me, matched the pics, damage was 800 gryvnas / h, very long one session (I'm not yang any more) and send her home.

At nigh went to Rio, the show was not bad, even though I noticed a fall down compared to my previous time there, saw some beauties in VIP and bar, Katrin, nice pettite, beautiful face, but unfortunately no takeout, Rosa, beautiful face, pettite, Sofia, beautiful tits and body, face less so, Marina (Mariana?) , blond, beautiful face, nice body, don't know if takeout possible, Dasha, brunete, pettite, sexy girl, Katya, great body, but small tits, Ada, nice girl, Bella, nice girl, good body. But my Olya was better than best girls in Rio. Was wery tired that day, spoke to some girls, agreed for 2 privats, had a nice time, dreamd about Olya, wow.

And one more thing, I noticed that ukrainian girls are very fond of dark boys, portugueese, spanish, italians, turks and arabs. Much more than bright americans, english, scandinavians and germans, that what a lot of girls told me.Good report Ronaldinjo, I think I know what Girl you are talking about. Blonde and 22, looks like a 9. 5. Definitely worth $350 all night.

Did you take any photos of the ladies?

Have you been to Club Mandarin yet?

Schuker69
05-06-12, 01:09
Most of the hot girls I have taken out of Rio over the past year 2011 and including up until my last visit of April 2012 have not been from the VIP room there, but rather from the downstairs bar or the upstairs bar. The VIP room has never been seen by me to have a consistently better line up than the other rooms. This has been noticed by more than one ISG member, causing us to muse in prior reports on this thread as to what is special about the VIP room at Rio to give it that title of "VIP", since it was decidedly NOT the quality of the girls in the VIP. It seemed that it was simply the more comfortable seating and couches in the VIP lounge and the mere exclusivity of its accessibility that differentiated it from the other rooms at Rio. I once thought I detected a similarity in the type of girls I saw in the VIP of very petite, young, newer types of girls, but this held true only for a time. I spoke to the managers about it, saying in the rest of the world a VIP room would be assumed to have the better girls but that was obviously not the strategy at Rio. The managers I spoke to acknowledged that that was the case. At one time it was my impression that the best looking girls were more to be found in the downstairs room, and the managers were directing the regulars to the downstairs bar, and newer customers to the upstairs room. It's hard to say if this has continued to hold true either. The fact is that girls switch around and rotate through the different rooms, sometimes they would be dancing downstairs, sometimes upstairs and sometimes in VIP, and sometimes at the sister club Paradise located 30 minutes out from downtown.

Therefore, this idea which runs consistently through reports filed by Muddy, that VIP room has the prettier girls at Rio, is a misconception. It makes me doubt whether he has really been in all the rooms at Rio adequately to assess the different line ups, or his observational powers. The fact is that one needs to check out all three line ups to see if there are some top level hotties present. One cannot simply go, or try to go, to the VIP room and bank on the idea that the best looking girls will be there. It's simply not so. The best strategy is to start early, and check out each line up, and if you think that a particular line up is lame, as one after the other of average girls appears on stage, don't just continue to sit there and waste time, but rather ask the manager if you can switch to the other room to see who's there. Do not assume VIP has best line up. It is a misconception.

I do agree that there are many average girls or slightly above average girls dancing at the Rio club. On this Muddy, and others are correct. No one should spend $300 on such girls because such average looking girls are widely available on mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or other websites at $75 / hr or even $50 / hr. So it's ridiculous to take average looking girls out from Rio at a prive of $300 even for 3 hours.

However, there are also a significant percentage of very nice looking girls at Rio too. And that is the entire point of going to the club. To get one if the beauties, if you can. They are not in the club in unlimited supply, but there are a sufficient number of them to make it worthwhile. There is competition from other customers. Some beauties are new girls, and are dancer only. But if you can get to one of the hotties, and she checks out in all your requirements, and she likes you and agrees to come home with you, you are in for a treat, although it's going to cost you $300/3hrs for take out. But in all my trips to Kiev, the Rio club has replaced the River Palace for me, as the location for the least expensive easy and sure thing, in getting a very hot young Ukrainian girl into my bed for the night.

However, now that some reliable veteran members of ISG are reporting lower prices of $200 or less for very hot girls in the nightclubs, instead of the prices of $400 and $500 that were being reported as nightclub prices previously, it would be highly recommended to spend some significant time searching for your hottie of the night at one of the popular nightclubs to see if you can score something good at $200 or less, and to look at places like Rio, or the new Mandarin scheduled to reopen soon, as a backup in case you are not successful at the regular nightclubs, sort of like it used to be with River Palace when it used to be around.

And who knows, if you schedule a lot of daytime mamba. Ru girl meetings, as recommended, you may hook into the very hot young girls you are looking for, even before you hit the nightclubs at night, at much lower price to boot.

It's all good. Several different methods available to seek out very pretty young girls. What more could an older guy ask for in a mongering destination?

LE concerns have previously been a concern for our hobby. Girl apartments are vulnerable since they are known stationary targets. Best to invite dates to your apartment. It cannot be emphasized enough how important it is to carry your actual passport on your person in going about Kiev. Also, out of concern for being stopped by police when trying to enter your apartment with a girl, it would be a good idea to make sure any girl you wish to bring to your apartment (especially in Maidan area) has her identity documents with her, and that you should know at least her real first name (you can always say to a policeman that you forgot her last name) , and you should have some agreed upon story of how you know each other and are friends or acquaintances from previously. The police say that they are concerned for the protection of tourists from unscrupulous girls who rob them, so it is not good to take girls you don't know into your apartment. So being able to satisfy the police that you do know each other from before and trust them, along with some Grivna has always worked in the past, if one got stopped. The clubs like Rio, know how to recognize the presence of LE in the club, and will likely slow things down or not permit take out during such a visitation, but will resume when all's clear.

LJSee little Joe is getting dragged thru the mud here. Shill for Rio? I just think he is out of his mind but when I read this BS about cops harrassing you if they see you entering your flat with a girl makes you look more like one! For this reason I do have issue with the last paragraph here. I don't see a reason to be so paranoid as I did this numerous times. Carrying your passport- and still give the cops GRN because they see you with a girl? No f-ing way amigos! This is what made me laugh reading this? Some of the guys on here could misconstrue this as an attempt to futhur pump up Rio so cut this BS!

I just entered building with a lady / girl and other times they just walking up and knocking at door. Not a cop anywhere and why would there be? Carry your Passport. Yes, at least have a very good photocopy. I have a friend who lives there now and he never carries his. He is a tough bastard, speaks not bad Ukrainian, so this is a good reason why he does not. I always carried mine but was concerned I would lose it. Fucking EE BS!. An added note. Late at nite if you are walking around Khrashatk st, which is one short block up from where my flat was- while walking underground / streets to avoid jay walking BS I would walk with a brisk pace, and an attitude so not to attract militia, cops and low lifes. Specially if you are loaded be aware of your surroundings, common sense and don't be a victim. Spend your cash on babes! Now Joey, get a life, fuck Rio, semi pro daytime for a nice fix, and at nite hang with freebies, and / or chases some girls in the bars, because the chase is more fun and cheaper than anything at Rio, but this has been said a dozen times here.

Climaxnow
05-06-12, 14:15
As long as Lilijoey enjoy it and can afford it, I don't see the problem. I don't partake his hobby and don't really read his sanguine posts about Rio, but he is enthousiastic in a genuine way, polite and never dogmatic, so live and let live. If you don't like his posts put him in your ignore list, no need to be offensive.No need for ignore lists Prosal, once shills get called out on the forum they usually dissappear. They can't afford the negative publicity.

LilJoey
05-06-12, 20:49
See little Joe is getting dragged thru the mud here. Shill for Rio? I just think he is out of his mind but when I read this BS about cops harrassing you if they see you entering your flat with a girl makes you look more like one! For this reason I do have issue with the last paragraph here. I don't see a reason to be so paranoid as I did this numerous times. Carrying your passport- and still give the cops GRN because they see you with a girl? No f-ing way amigos! This is what made me laugh reading this? Some of the guys on here could misconstrue this as an attempt to futhur pump up Rio so cut this BS!

I just entered building with a lady / girl and other times they just walking up and knocking at door. Not a cop anywhere and why would there be? Carry your Passport. Yes, at least have a very good photocopy. I have a friend who lives there now and he never carries his. He is a tough bastard, speaks not bad Ukrainian, so this is a good reason why he does not. I always carried mine but was concerned I would lose it. Fucking EE BS. An added note. Late at nite if you are walking around Khrashatk st, which is one short block up from where my flat was- while walking underground / streets to avoid jay walking BS I would walk with a brisk pace, and an attitude so not to attract militia, cops and low lifes. Specially if you are loaded be aware of your surroundings, common sense and don't be a victim. Spend your cash on babes! Now Joey, get a life, fuck Rio, semi pro daytime for a nice fix, and at nite hang with freebies, and / or chases some girls in the bars, because the chase is more fun and cheaper than anything at Rio, but this has been said a dozen times here.No, Schucker69, you are quite wrong and have posted information that will cause harm to others. I wrote about the problems sometimes that is encountered when entering one's apartment with girls and that one can be confronted by police. This is stated from reading the thread, which you have not sufficiently done, as well as from personal experience, as I was stopped one time personally.

Now it doesn't mean that a monger bringing a girl to his apartment will ALWAYS be stopped. This is where having a brain is useful as you read posts about problems had with law enforcement by other mongers. Many times you will be lucky and your apartment will not be in an area frequented by LE on foot. Most of the times I have visited Kiev over the past few years, I have had no problem and wasn't stopped by police. It happened to me once, when my apartment was just off the Maidan, an area more likely to have an LE presence. I too am concerned about losing my passport if I take it along in my pocket. But having read of the problems others had and the shake down that occurs if you are stopped and don't have your actual passport with you, I decided that I didn't want to be taken down to a precinct or spend any time in custody of Ukrainian police, so I decided to carry my passport was a better option.

The advice about making sure the girls have ID is also derived from personal experience, as because one of the two girls I had with me on the night I was stopped just entering my apartment did not have her ID, and as a result the police would not let her alone, until I paid them off.

Perhaps you are one of those souls that doesn't mind doing things the hard way or learning things the hard way, and you would like to take your chances with the ukrainian police and would not mind wasting an entire evening on dealing with their bullshit. The advice I gave was for those who wish to extricate themselves as quickly and easily as possible from the clutches of a corrupt law enforcement situation where the opportunity to shake down foreigners is commonly taken. A few simple precautions for those who would be wary are certainly in order.

LJ

Kirch
05-06-12, 22:44
Its become obvious to me that this thread has been corrupted by shills promoting the venue known as Rio. I would like to share what you can truly expect in this place. Rio strip club is an expensive option in Kiev. The average cost of a girl is about $400 when you average the expense of drinks, dances, tips and whatever. The first disappointment that will strike you is that the girls are just not that hot (mostly 7's and 8's). The second disappointment is that not all the girls are available for carry out. I visited this place once a week for three weeks straight and never took a girl home. I could afford one of these girls every night of my stay in Kiev but I do not like wasting my money. Here are the real problems. I am in my early forties with a strong sex drive, but sex in the wee hours reduces me to half of my true self. I'm not a very experienced monger but I know that covered blow jobs and no DATY is basically not acceptable. Others will tell you that they "broke through the barrier" or YMMV but this is all straight bullshit when it comes to the girls in Rio nightclub. Here is why. Rio is a unique venue in Kiev where girls can prostitute themselves without any transmission of bodily fluid. If the girls were open to being better performers, most would not work here.

Senior members of this thread have tried to forewarn the newbies about the reality of this place. Be careful of what you read here, you don't want to be misguided by slick writers with ulterior motives.Hi Climaxnow, you are totally right and I can just agree. BUT for Kiev and not having so much time RIO is the best place. Everywhere else you will spend too much time. For a tourist coming to Kiev and not speaking Russian it's hard to get around and in addition very expensive. So instead of checking Kreshatik during the daytime and night time at McDonalds, Vodka Bar, Buddha Bar, Deluxe, Baby Face Bar, Arena City and and and, you could just go to Rio and spend EUR 10 for entrance and about EUR 5 for Bacardi Cola (cheaper than Germany) and check out all the girls coming straight to your table. I totally agree that recently the girls are not all 10s but still a lot of nice girls. AND as I always write, it's a matter of your attitude what you get later in your apartment! Of course sometime you are wrong and pay a lot of money for a cheap blowjob and f* with condom and she's leaving after 2-3 hours. But I have there many times and the managers know me and give me advice what girl to take. Furthermore with some experience all of the girls were 7-9s and stayed at my apartment until noon. But my conclusion is that I spend my money way better in Germany going to the FKK clubs. How can I say, it`s the all-in package you get, being in a foreign nice country. Hope you understand :-9

Poker Player 2
05-06-12, 22:48
Many thanks for your review Poker Player 2. There is so much irrelevant tiresome rubbish here. But this is the kind of informative on the spot stuff thatis really useful. (you may like to read my own day by day visit experience) I was fascinated by your success with the massages. I have similarly attempted to get further with girls from Dolly and Rakuena but with no success. It would be great to get a clue as to which you use yourself. 'TheKnight' similarly is turned on by the massage service and made some small progress, but generally its impenetrable. What's your secret.Limarian,

I thank you for your message. I read all your posts and I think that you and I.and I believe the majority of ISG members, regard the forum as a means of helping others by providing information. Just like yourself, I am somewhat frustrated by some of the negative comments by a few members who do not use the forum as we do. Your knowledge of Kiev is much superior to mine and I have much to learn from your insights. With regards to the massage lady, I don't have a secret. I can tell you that I had a good time with her from the first visit; we laughed a lot and chatted quite a lot. She became much looser starting from the second visit. Like yourself, I have the best time with a woman when there is a connection beyong the physical aspects. Ofcourse, this approach only works sometimes. I believe I got lucky with the girl from RIO as well; we had a lot of fun and I really enjoyed my time with her. I actually have the massage lady's email, phone and skype presense so if you care to, I could contact her and secure her permission to share contact information?

I never knew Kiev could be so hot! UK weather is much different. I was interested in Premiere palace pool and Gym you were writing about. Do you share my impressions of the Hotel? I thought they offered questionable service and charged world prices for it- do you concur? I was considering staying at the Hotel as a guest.

Regards

Ronaldinjo
05-07-12, 04:44
Good report Ronaldinjo, I think I know what Girl you are talking about. Blonde and 22, looks like a 9. 5. Definitely worth $350 all night.

Did you take any photos of the ladies?

Have you been to Club Mandarin yet?Its hard to believ that we are talking about the same girl. She sweard it was her first and last time. I did take some photoes but erotic ones she didn't allow. Haven't been in mandarin, was once in Rio and once in dalls (read the post above).

Ronaldinjo
05-07-12, 04:52
In my personal opinion Ljs posts are very helpfull and I like to read them a lot. It is maybe true that he overpays girls, but this is his money and his life and he is free to do with them whatever he wishes. Even if he is shill for Rio (which I honestly don't believe) his information is mostly true and relible (eventhough maybe I don't agree about girls beautie, but as it was so much said previously, beauty is on the eyes of beholder). So dear Lj, don't take other mongers attack personally and continue to post your interesting statment as you used to. There are a lot of peaople ready to read them with interest. Those who are not interested can skipp Ljs posts. By the way Lj, I have found Kiev to be much more than only Rio, there is neeed for some effort only and a little bit of luck.

Ronaldinjo
05-07-12, 04:53
Rio is not bad place, there were some cute babes there, but after my night with Olya I didn't see that any girl was worth for takeout there, and I was very tired too. Had a privat with Dasha, suppose the same girl you took home, small brunette who dances acrobatically, am I wright? I don't think she will be rated as 7 by most boys here, she certainely was at least 8 physically, do you agree with me? She had great body and beautiful face, but didn't like her attitude. Maybe we were both wery tired that midnight. But her privat was good. Maybe next time.

Ronaldinjo
05-07-12, 05:08
I have found mamba to be very good source for beautiful and chip sex in Kiev, only 2 things you need is a little bit luck and patience, because for every beautie you find you need to overpass 3-4-5 trolls at least. Had a great day with Tatyana yesterday. 2 hours 1400 gryvnas, pettite brunette, very sexy and my taste, solid 8 by Kiev standarts, can be leveled with top girls in Rio. Great service, allowed DATY freely, uncovered BJ, and in the second and third shots sex without condom. My shots came on her body. Very nice and sweet personality (half ukrainian, half kaukazian ingush as she said) , very pationate and beautiful face.

Later at night went to Dalls, nice club, good athmosphere, no that big selection of girls like in Rio, but felt that there is better chance for GFE than in Rio. Not many visitors. Talkes to some girls. 2h / 300$, one agreed for 3 h / 300$ promiced DATY and uncovered BJ, but I was drained and tired, just talked to some girls. But there is advantages over Rio: 1. No taxi 100 gryvnas like from Rio, no need to tip managers (didn't see them, waitress helped me) , and better GFE. But Rio has broader selection, in dalls maximum 20 girls working together.

With respect, ronaldinjo

Jony B
05-07-12, 05:33
So called one beauty, Olya. 22 year old, that sweared pics were hers (before meeting her I didt know if she was freebie or semipro) , so we met in the evening, wow, what a beauty she was, very beautiful even for kievs standarts, an 9 for me at least, and I'm very picky. We dined, talked, her english was better than mine. Blond, great body beautiful face, as in pics, so after hours of talking and walking through kreshatik we came to my place. Before it she made me clear that she needed money for her mothers operation (it casted 3000 $). So we agreed to spend time 350 $ till the mornin untill 10 o clock, and what a night it was, I was like dreaming, I was drained out of sperm that night, I have cum 4 times, she is great, real godess. Best sex in my life. She sweared that it was her first time and last time to make sex for money, and she would very much would like to meet me once more, even for less money. So great deal. 350$ for at least 12-14 hours with her. Gave her 30$ tip that she didn't want to take initially. I feel lucky and very happy. Much better deal than in Rio, and she was better looking than most beautiful girl in Rio.Hello Ronaldinjo,

Olya. 22 year old you mentioned above is this one?

http://mamba.ru/olechka-uo/?afolder=dating

Thanks

Guntherus
05-07-12, 17:51
Having no personal interests in Rio-Club other than seeing nice dancers, I hesitatingly mix myself into the discussion repeating what I wrote more than a year ago: to find girls for passionate overnight sex Rio is a sensible choice for me. I visit Kiew for a week, now for the sixth time, I am almost sixty and speak only four words Russian (if speaking is the right word.) But this time I never got to visit Rio. I went to Avalon the first night, where I like the music and find people friendly, I dance a little and I invite a few girls drink when they are friendly. To make long story short, I went away, first with two girls who wanted to try another club, and then two hours later one of them wanted to "see my flat." There is hardly anything in my book comparable with spending the night with a 30yo dying for action because she hasnt had sex for weeks. The trembling and the gasps like that of a teenager are nothing that can be faked. And not even a dancer from Rio, passing as a passionate sexworker once in a while, can exceed this experience, in my opinion. I know this was my luck on the first night. I got her digitis, and spent rest of the days trying to meet her, but she had no time for more meetings because of her child and her work. I hope to meet her next time though. So try your luck with freebies, as well as the dancers and the profilers of Mamba etc.
Costs: three glasses of redwine 135uah, two taxis 100uah, taxi home 100uah

PS What happened to the second girl of the two I mentioned? Entering Caribbean-club, I witnessed a very admirable "friendly takeover" by a nice fellow about the same age as the girl. He literally isolated her on the dance floor, cornered her, and started telling something in her ear, which I had no intention of overhearing. Before long she was dancing to no other. I myself then had plenty more chance to invite the other to my quarters. Honestly speaking, I am not sure I would have managed to reel both of them in. But I confess it crossed my mind.

PedroToronja
05-07-12, 23:09
I did got civilians, basically students that need money to live in Kiev. The are from 'the regions' or 'villages' as the Kievites refer to despicably (although most of them came from the same small towns). Their families can't support them, so they need to supplement the income. Don't limit yourself to residents of Kiev. You can invite them to come to Kiev, and they will come, if you offer to pay for their train ticket which is very cheap. Once in Kiev. They have to stay with you.

I also got some from seekingarrangement, those are more pros, but there are all kinds. I met a model, absolutely beautiful, through that site. She showed me her portfolio online, a true beauty, but she was not too hot about me (and / or the money I gave her, maybe she expected a lot more).

I got a spam message in Mamba about Sexmamba, but is too complicated to sign into so many places, pay for VIP status, etc.

I don't feel like dishing $300, I can do that in Miami, so I won't go to Rio. Me too, I am on the wrong side of 50, so you can relate or not to my experience.

Girls in Arena are extremely hot and a little intimidating with 6 inch stilettos. A lot of young men go there too, so I feel ridiculous trying to compete there. I kind of disappear in that crowd at 5'5. I eat at Arena, Martini Terraza sometimes, or go to their Illy coffee shop, and the line of very hot chicks going to the club is frankly AMAZING.

I will try Shooters for the first time when I am there next week, and also for the first time Vodka Bar. Any pointers? Any other suggestions?

Again, anyone wanting to go mongering together, let me know. I am not cheap, I eat at Buddah all the time, I 'live' at Volkonski and know all their waiters (and they know me) , but I don't like to be scalped by a cold beatch or burn my money away.

Again, saw some hotties in Top-Modals. Can we exchange names of those girls here, to know if anyone tried them?

Thanks!

Ronaldinjo
05-08-12, 11:05
Saw 3 mamba girls yesterday. 2 were undoable, one of them fat. 1 was so so. 6-7 by Kiev standarts, send her home. Invited my beautiful queen Olya, she agreed 200$ for 5 hours. We dined and then to my place, wow, she was great, what a girl. I'm drained once more. Went to Rio at night (about 2-3 o clock) , poor lineup compared to previous night, a lot of unattractive girls. Stayed for 2 hours and than back home dreaming about my Olya. Mandarin is supposed to open wery soon, but I'm leaving very soon.

LilJoey
05-08-12, 18:02
I did got civilians, basically students that need money to live in Kiev. The are from 'the regions' or 'villages' as the Kievites refer to despicably (although most of them came from the same small towns). Their families can't support them, so they need to supplement the income. Don't limit yourself to residents of Kiev. You can invite them to come to Kiev, and they will come, if you offer to pay for their train ticket which is very cheap. Once in Kiev. They have to stay with you.

I also got some from seekingarrangement, those are more pros, but there are all kinds. I met a model, absolutely beautiful, through that site. She showed me her portfolio online, a true beauty, but she was not too hot about me (and / or the money I gave her, maybe she expected a lot more).

I got a spam message in Mamba about Sexmamba, but is too complicated to sign into so many places, pay for VIP status, etc.

I don't feel like dishing $300, I can do that in Miami, so I won't go to Rio. Me too, I am on the wrong side of 50, so you can relate or not to my experience.

Girls in Arena are extremely hot and a little intimidating with 6 inch stilettos. A lot of young men go there too, so I feel ridiculous trying to compete there. I kind of disappear in that crowd at 5'5. I eat at Arena, Martini Terraza sometimes, or go to their Illy coffee shop, and the line of very hot chicks going to the club is frankly AMAZING.

I will try Shooters for the first time when I am there next week, and also for the first time Vodka Bar. Any pointers? Any other suggestions?

Again, anyone wanting to go mongering together, let me know. I am not cheap, I eat at Buddah all the time, I 'live' at Volkonski and know all their waiters (and they know me) , but I don't like to be scalped by a cold beatch or burn my money away.

Again, saw some hotties in Top-Modals. Can we exchange names of those girls here, to know if anyone tried them?

Thanks!I also got linked to a new website called "Sexmamba" when clicking on certain girls' pictures on mamba. Ru. I tried to sign up to see what it's about, but the process requires a verification to be sent via text message SMS to a number that they give you. It's a different number for each country. The USA is not one of the countries on their list. So I used the number they gave for Some of the European countries and sent the SMS message. But it didn't work. I have not seen this "Sexmamba" site discussed here on the thread. It would seem to be a site where one would know in advance that all the girls are open to P4p, and eliminate that initial question. Probably all fake pics though, like mamba. Ru itself. Have any of you from European countries been able to successfully sign up to the "sexmamba" website? Any experiences to relate?

Pedro, the way I understand your goals, you are over 50, 5'5", and feel ridiculous going after super hot looking girls in their 20's in the nightclubs. Join the club. All of us in this boat feel the same way. Probably because of the rebuffs we've received from young girls we might have tried to talk to in nightclubs back home, or imagined would rebuff us mercilessly if we tried. Believe me, I can relate to what you are saying.

But you have to keep in mind that there are at least two things that are different in the Kiev scene that are working in your favor, that are not present in a nightclub scene in Miami. One is that the girls you are looking for are seeking a guy just like you! The fact that you are older and you are a foreigner who likely has some money to burn is exactly what they have in mind. There are Working Girls in these nightclubs looking for a guy who will give them money. So it isn't as important how pretty and young your nose is. The second factor is that it is very common in Kiev and other EE places for young student girls who need money to hook up with older guys who have money and will "sponsor" them, meaning give them some help with their expenses. So don't worry about the age difference. You will not be the only older guy who hooks up with a younger girl at the nightclub. With these two things in mind, just go and plug away. Try to have a good time drinking / dancing. Keep an eye out for any girl giving you a look (as maybe she's a WG looking for some action) smile back and do an intro. If she's a WG, she will show her interest. WG's tend to hang by the bar areas and not on the dance floor. These are the things I am thinking of doing in the nightclubs.

Cruiser D and others are reporting it's not too hard to get a very hot young girl out of a nightclub in Kiev for $200 or less. This means there are others, who are also older guys, who are already successfully doing exactly what you want to do. So knowing it's possible, is a great encouragement to just go and do it yourself.

One other point. Since your post expresses a desire to spend less, then the best scenario is when you can get the girl to stay with you for a longer time, even all night long. In Kiev it's possible for not too much more than the initial outlay of cash. This is something you can NOT do in Miami. You can spend $300 in Miami on ONE hour with a hot p4p girl, but if you want another hour, it's going to cost you another $300, or at least $200. All night would likely cost you a $1, 000. But in Kiev, you might get a girl from the nightclub who wants $200 to come home with you, and she will stay all night with you probably for just a little bit more. And if she really likes you, and is having fun with you, maybe she'll be happy with just the initial $200. Even the Rio girls who start at $300, can be gotten for the whole night for $400. This you can't get in Miami. This is where Kiev really becomes a bargain. That a pretty young girl will stay with you all night, many, many hours, and fuck you multiple times, for little more than the cost of the initial hour. And Maybe you will find a girl who will come home with you for even less than $200 initially.

So at night have a great time in the nightclubs. The more guys in the 50+ age bracket that can do what Cruiser D says is possible, and report on the details of the process, the more information on this thread there will be to guide others. So post your stories and let us know what happens. And by day try out as many website girls as you can to see if you can find any pretty ones. You are bound to have a great time.

Good luck.

LJ

LilJoey
05-08-12, 22:48
By the way Lj, I asked all Rio managers about Leela and Vladislava, they didn't have slightest idea who those girls are. There was one tall blond Stanislava. Are you sure you pronounced correctly the names?Ronaldinjo, I am perplexed by what you write, that you asked a manager and he did not know who Leela was? She has worked at the club for quite a while. It seems strange that they tell you they don't know her. Yet there are very many girls there, and some managers are new also. Which manager did you ask?

Here is there description again. You can also ask the waitresses about a girl's name. Leela has been working in the club many months. I took note of her sexy, pretty look during one of my trips last year. She was always busy, do I never got to her until my most recent visit and the dates we had on April 2 and April 3. She has a very pretty face and light brown hair, with awesome curves and a very sexy body. Speaks English well.

Vladislava I first saw at the club on April 3. She was pointed out to me by Leela who was sitting with me in the VIP room. Vladislava is definitely her name, is she herself said it on video clip I took, and so I'm certain about the name she gave me. Vladislava is tall, slim, very sexy body, jet black hair, with very pretty face and eyes. She speaks English, but with that heavy Slavic accent. She smiles a lot and has an awesome smile as well.

The duo date I had with these two girls was absolutely awesome. It's up there as one of my all time favorites (ATF's)

Keep trying. Maybe the managers don't know you enough, so they don't disclose as much. If you see either of these girls, let me know.

LilJoey
05-09-12, 06:15
thank you liljoey. i appreciate your insight.

you mention that cruiser d has some useful postings about pickup places, etc. this forum is huge and i would have to spend hours finding those postings, can you send me a link to one of them perhaps please?

since you want me to share, there i go. i visited ua for the first time 6 years ago and i went crazy with the beauty of the girls. at the time i met a couple of them from gia and some other 'masseuses' from kiev post, the english newspaper (a very good one!) that used to place such adds back then. i have a small business and i placed ads online in ua to offshore administrative work there, so i had an opportunity to continue visiting. i also saved a ton of money on salaries. i hired some online workers there about 5 years ago, and since then i have been going 5 to 7 times per year. i don't sh. t where i eat, so i don't play with my employees. (i tried, i could not help it, and it was a disaster. every time!).

about 3 years ago i started placing ads for a 'private personal assistant' in kiev. is a long story, but i have now one 'official' gf in ua, for 2 years already. i am older than her dad, and what sucks is that she is wonderful and truly loves me. being a dog, i can't limit myself to one girl, when there are so many amazing women around. so i am constantly hunting and i find myself cheating in a second degree: first on my wife (which i love to pieces) , then on my gf (for whom i also have feelings) , with girls i get now and then.

of interest to you and others may be the girls on met-art. com. most are from ua, and while their names are fake and you can't find them, the photographer's name is real.

i befriended a photographer who has his own website on his own name, a very nice guy. i went with him, a videographer and a 4 of his models, in two cars, to yalta in winter, for a photo-shoot. i became completely crazy madly in love with one of those girls (the one i liked on the site and i connected by her photographer, now my friend). yes, i paid for most of the gas, food, etc. of that trip south, but. it was worth it ten times over. the experience of a life time, hallucinating. so much so, that on day 3 i just could not handle it anymore and left back to kiev. during the shooting the girls are kind of shy and they don't allow to be right there, ogling. from a distance, yes. anyway, it was too much for me to handle. i jumped 'into the tv' so to speak: the girls i was admiring online, now were around me, sharing the bedrooms (not the bed). back in kiev i did start dating the one i was completely crazy about, although she spoke not a word of english. i bought for about $300 a little translating machine: i type in english, she reads it in russian, and vice-versa. it was crazy but it was one of the best fucks of my life, if not the absolute best. btw, she was 20 and i was 62. personal trainer and plastic surgery make me look acceptable, but in no way you can seriosuly consider that this would work. and it did not. but it was fricken great!

in total, i slept with 3 girls from met-art. only once with the other two girls. memorable, but too complicated. they are not prostitutes, is a lot of work, very expensive at the end, and not worth all the time (when vertical or sitting).

anyway, on the days of river palace i went there several times. i was actually rejected by some 18 or 19 very hot but newbies chicks. my self-estime down the toilet. those are 100% wg, made me feel really, really old. by that time i also heard that the girls there were very mistrusting, because some had been recently kidnapped, raped and beat up. in one case, by the police themselves who dragged a girl to the precinct as a present to their boss on his birthday, and after him, the entire precinct raped her. i think that is possible. most wg when they come to the apartment they ask me to walk them back out to a car, to make sure the cops don't stop them to take their money. it appears that cops follow them from the clubs and when they leave your apartment they take their money.

as for arrests, i was told by an employee of mine that many times girls work together with a cop friend. the girl picks you up on a bar, invites you to smoke pot in some alley, the cop suddently appears, hits the girl a little to make it look real, and takes you to the atm to get the max from your card, plus your cash, not to arrest you. another trick i saw done in front of me many times in kiev is when a guy waking in front of you drops a clear plastic envelope with some money and a wallet inside. if you even touch it to pick it up and give to him, he will open the envelope and claim that you took hundreds of dollars that were in his wallet. a passerby (an accomplice) will vouch for that guy and a friend cop that 'happens' to show up will arrest you, etc. etc. to take all your money. everyone should be warned of this, as i saw it attempted on me several times.

i am always looking for more, of course, i am a guy. i had some very good pussy in kiev, but the best i got was in night flight in moscow, a few years ago. i went again 3 months ago and i was disappointed, but maybe is my mistake, i did not wait long enough for the best to arrive (past midnight). as i was walking out with two girls, a 6 and a 7 at best, i saw some 10's walking in. very expensive too.

in kiev many students and normal working girls need to supplement their income. their salaries are about 3, 000 grivnas a month, if they get paid and when they get paid. i am not sure where to pick them up though. in podol and everywhere they have the universities, but i feel like a predator by a kindergarten stopping and checking those chicks out, so i don't. i don't know where to meet them either. never went to vodka bar or sky bar, i will try next week. sorry i wrote so much, but this is a guy whose life was dedicated, first to being rejected by hot chicks while growing up, and now to make up for all i missed! with a vengeance. i live by the marquis de sade motto: every woman is fuckable and every man is obligated to try! amen.very interesting read, pedro. i identified with a lot of it. cruiser d didn't post any list of nightclubs that he likes. he just reassured me that it was possible to get very hot wg's for $200/2hrs. or less, a lower price than at the strip clubs. he said that all the nightclubs (recommended by others on this thread) were ok, but he said to stay away from buddha bar for this. i wish he would go into more detail on the nightclub scene, but so far he hasn't posted anything very detailed about this topic recently. there are posts by others advocating one venue or the other. check out me and you's post on where he was successful. some of the nightclubs or bars have made it onto the map prepared by romanystar. i liked the look and vibe of the club and the people at d'lux, one of the hottest clubs in kiev, although it's probably not so good for mongering for less expensive girls there. but i enjoyed the music and dj and the whole vibe of the club. the wg's are reported to be hanging mostly at the bar area, not the dance floor where i spent a lot of my time there. this probably explains why i didn't speak with any wg's when i went to d'lux. next time i go i will hang out at the bar more and return all eye contacts. before my next trip, i plan to make a through search of the thread for names of venues i haven't heard of yet.

if you went to night flight in moscow and were prepared to spend the high prices there for a beautiful girl, then you should probably check out the strip clubs which have take out for prices much lower than what you paid at night flight. i have written extensively on the lowest priced of them, rio ($300/3hrs). mandarin is supposed to soon open. dolls, a new club, is slightly more expensive than rio ($300/2hrs). the other strip clubs that have take out ask $400/2hrs. look up reports by theknight. but as of recent reports, you can get much lower prices than these in the nightclubs.

Climaxnow
05-10-12, 03:55
All this boring fight about just 1 club in Kiev, is astonishing. May I ask the critics to offer an alternative? As far as I know, and after having done some research myself, I think Río is the best quality / price strip club in Kiev. None of the other ones I have visited (or read about) have so many girls, nice music, professional staff. The others have similar prices, less girls, and most of the times less beautiful, but perhaps I'm wrong.Rio is dollar for dollar the worse value in Kiev. It is a dead end venue where you can make no friends. If the girls are caught with a customer on the side they will be immediately fired. If you seek alternatives, may I suggest that you RTFF.

PedroToronja
05-10-12, 15:19
Besides Richelieu, Monaco (avoid oysters) , Buddah Bar for sushi upstairs in plain view of the escorts, the Vinci Fish Market, Stephanos, Leo, all great. Second tier Ciro Pomodoro, Concorde, Deja Vue, even Il Patio. I would not venture too far beyond those as getting food poisoning is an almost daily occurrence Ukraine, even for locals.

Repriza and Volkonsky are by far the best coffee places / bakeries. Volko has WiFi and very sophisticated crowd, great service and bakery. You may even have lunch or diner there, but is not great. Women there (civilians, rich) are absolutely amazing and dressed like I never saw a girl in the USA or anywhere else dress. Those are daughters / wifes / lovers of oligarchs and are loaded with money. There are iPhones and iPads at every table there, it appears that it is a requirement to have them to get served (kidding).

Rio used to have a casino, but they closed most of them in Kiev (you can still go have your money ripped off your pockets at the casino at Premier Palace). I went once to their strip joint and I hated it. Yes, the girls are cute but very cold and appear to be afraid of the managers, some guys that walk the place (as in many places in former Soviet Union) as bad asses, looking very serious, almost menacing, KGB wannabes or maybe worst, former KGB police. The place appeared intimidating, cold, severe. I got a girl to give me some lap dances in a little cubicle with a curtain for 'privacy'. While she was completely naked, I could not put my fingers where I wanted. I did not like it at all and never went back. Again, that was just one visit about 2 years ago. Maybe is different now.

They used to have a poker club at Arena. 2nd floor. I did go and played there. It was good and people were friendly. At another time I approached a table with just 3 players that invited me to sit. Those guys were loaded with gold chains and threw $100 chips like if they were dimes. Of course I did not sit there, but watched for a while. They treated the dealer like shit. When they had bad hands, they will throw them at the dealer and I think they cursed them (I don't speak Russian).

I can't read Russian people very well. Most men appear to be mad all the time, but when you talk to them and maybe joke, they become very friendly, they disarm. I think it is their protective armor.

Women always smile and giggle but it does not mean they want you to kiss them. Be careful reading too much into their smiles. They are often just polite.

Regarding Mamba and that 'dating' tool when you invite for coffee, etc. Anyone knows how I can initiate such? Offering to pick up the tab for anyone who shows up may be dangerous.

Overall, I think Ukrainian women are extraordinary. If I had to 'do it all again', I would marry one. No doubt in my mind. The fact that some (real minority) are either fulltime working girls or just civilians complementing their income, does not speak for most of them which are very family oriented, still beautiful, protective of their children, very well educated and mannered, hard working and humble. This is true, I have more knowledge of UA women on a professional and friendly setting that on my double life as a mongerer.

I go there again this Saturday. If you are there and want to hang out, let me know.

Muddy7
05-10-12, 16:02
Anyone who flies from the US to Kiev just for RIO and thinks is getting a good deal there is a retard

Kirch
05-10-12, 18:49
So many people here discussing that Rio is not a good place. For me it's the best place and explained it many times here. But I have a problem, I need an alternative solution for strip club Rio as one of the girls is jealous if I go with other girls. So Rio, new Mandarin Boat and Paradise Club is not working because all same owner.

I don't want to go to Buddha Bar, Vodka Bar, Shooters or Deluxe. I need something like Rio but with the same quantity and quality of girls. So to the people here saying Rio is not good, what's the other places to go?

LilJoey
05-10-12, 19:08
Amen to that! I will avoid Rio until the owners starts to pay an advertisement fee to Jackson. ISG is used to promote Rio before EURO2012.

LJ, you still did not comment on my post in the other thread. I am mostly curious to if you do not get an unbalanced amount of shitty attitude from these stunners you are hunting?

B.

PS.

Yes yes I know, Barba could not stay away. The things I would not do to avoid work.

Maybe you forgive me if I post a picture of this ass that I am sure more than me drilled? Yes I can share her details but I do not recommend her unless you are desperate to fuck some teenage ass.

DSBarba, your post quoting Climaxnow's baseless accusation that the ISG forum was hijacked to promote Rio and that you will stay away from Rio, should have been posted in the other thread Jackson created for that BS. My response to your intent to "stay away" from any venue for a baseless reason, is that you seem to be too willing to join the lemmings as they illogically jump off the cliffs. It is behavior that makes no sense. (note: I read the Wikipedia article about lemmings which states that the whole idea about the lemmings committing mass suicide by jumping off cliffs is not true, but was created and popularized by certain theatrical productions since the 1950's. Nevertheless, the imagery is apt for the purposes of the metaphor of a mindless act to the detriment of the actor).

Regarding your second statement that I didn't respond to your post, I thought I did. You had asked me about the covered DATY, and I explained to you in detail that DATY is enjoyable for me to do to a pretty girl whether natural uncovered or even covered, because my major enjoyment derived from giving a girl DATY was from the arousal I get when I see how she is affected. I love how her body begins to respond to the intense pleasure she is feeling as my tongue strikes and caresses repeatedly against and around her clitoris (this works even through the latex, since the lubrication applied previously allows her clitoris to slide around in response to the movements of my tongue) and watching how her arousal builds, hearing her moans of pleasure, and ultimately the shudders and convulsions of her body as she reaches a powerful orgasm. So even though covered is not as much fun as covered DATY, it nevertheless is something I enjoy doing to a pretty girl, and it has side benefits, in that any girl whom I pleasure in that fashion, is way more likely to return the favor to me, and to treat me in a much more GFE manner. DATY has the power to "break the ice" between a man and a woman in a p4p situation, where they are essentially strangers, having met just shortly before. It launches the girl into a fun and sexual place, and the rest of the session proceeds at a much higher level, usually.

In the post that you made following that response, I didn't detect a new question. But if you want a response to your feeling that a pretty girl with a shitty attitude is not desired by you, I would say that I entirely agree. That is what the all important interview process is for. Weeding out pretty girls with bad attitudes from consideration. This applies to all girls, no matter where I meet them, whether it be in Rio strip club or in D'lux nightclub. I put forward a very friendly demeanor toward the girl, and if she responds in a sweet way, then things proceed. If she shows any signs of being an ice queen or bitchy or demanding in any way, I reject her from consideration and move on to the next possibility. Therefore, I never took out any girl who didn't respond very warmly and sexually during private dances I had with them at Rio (where you can really check out if a girl has any good chemistry with you) or in conversation I had with them in any club or location. I only took to my apartment girls who were very pretty and who had shown the capacity for sweetness and GFE in all our interactions until that point. So I preserved myself from the pretty girl you described with the shitty attitude. She was rejected as soon as her negativity was detected at the first instance.

LJ

Member #4491
05-11-12, 10:07
her name is starts with an n and number ends with 973. if you are interested i will pm you the number. dog breath and yellow teeth but a good teenage ass that i fucked twice when she visited me. she responded better after a glass of wine.

[message to admin deleted]

lj, lemming go to one spot / area. i and the ones of us that will avoid one club are rep001tering all over kiev. backfiring analogy? just relax man, and please leave it be. we are all entitled to have an opinion on a club and you do not have to take it personally if i do not agree with you. i asked if the frequency of bitchy attitude is not higher amongst the "good looking" strippers in rio, but never mind. i know that it is so in most other places, so no need to elaborate. just try to stay on topic if you do address my posts here. you only win loneliness by skewing things with 1000000 words, joey. the more enemies you make in your quest to promote something, the less trustworthy you will come across to be. i have no problems with your posts. i just do not agree. just chill and go where you want. over and out from me on that.

a strip bar is not even a fall back for me anywhere in the world. but i know many people here will never say anything negative about their favorite spots, for various reasons. blink. i am not a slim brad pit but there are still options everywhere in kiev. no need to always eat an an over priced mcdonalds. especially if you are not allowed to only lick on the packaging of the burger. but this is just barba's opinion that i share to create some balance here. (lj, please do not take it personally.)

for me is is also about how genuine a place is. i consider a strip club a totally in-genuine (is that a word?) place. if i visit a country, i want to be amongst people and a local and genuine culture, at least the moments i get a chance. if we look at a axis where hard core pros are far to the right and religious marriage girls are far to the left, i want to be around the middle. even if we tilt to the right, we are still within that cultures (read "many cultures") sponsor concept between men and women, and the females that will be in this environment will logically be less mentally corrupt than the ones far out on either side. i avoid the extremes in a normal distribution a statistician would say. illusion is the first of pleasures someone else said, and my illusion breaks within minutes of entering a strip club normally. it is simply a negative energy field for me and a total waste of my precious time unless i have some friends with me to talk to. this is not a continuations on the rio war. just my thoughts on my own modus operandi. no need to defend things (lj et al.)

pedrotoronja said it! guys, read up on the unbalance between women and men in ukraine, and then make your own conclusions to what you need to do to get laid. it was even an article in the inflight magazine of aerosvit. they mentioned that there was less men than women and that the amount of "marriageable men" where even less; hence making the dating sites a very good option for many females. i do not remember the numbers but i was surprised. i never saw that in an inflight magazine before.

barba

editor's note: this report was edited to remove a message directed to the forum admin.

the open forum is not the appropriate venue to contact the forum administration regarding individual questions, complaints or comments about the administration of the forum. instead, please use the contact us link at the bottom of this page to send me an email voicing your complaints about the administration of the forum, and i will respond as quickly as possible. thanks!

Climaxnow
05-11-12, 15:17
So many people here discussing that Rio is not a good place. For me it's the best place and explained it many times here. But I have a problem, I need an alternative solution for strip club Rio as one of the girls is jealous if I go with other girls. So Rio, new Mandarin Boat and Paradise Club is not working because all same owner.

I don't want to go to Buddha Bar, Vodka Bar, Shooters or Deluxe. I need something like Rio but with the same quantity and quality of girls. So to the people here saying Rio is not good, what's the other places to go?So what you are asking for is a pile of women served to you on a platter. Sorry, but that venue known as River Palace no longer exists and it was not replaced by Rio nightclub.

Guntherus
05-11-12, 15:44
You give no reason why you won't go to BB, VB, Shooters or D'Lux? Are the girls there not good enough for you? It's hardly more expensive than strip club. Is there some hidden agenda behind your question? Maybe not, but then you must explain yourself better. But don't start this fight over Rio again in the forum. And to (try to) answere your question, you could go into the bar at Lybid hotel, there I have seen several girls and they want 200$ for two hours. It is easy to stop by and ave a look. There is even a small booth there where you can have private dance. I have visited other strip clubs and forgot about it completely. I. O. W, not to be recommended.


So many people here discussing that Rio is not a good place. For me it's the best place and explained it many times here. But I have a problem, I need an alternative solution for strip club Rio as one of the girls is jealous if I go with other girls. So Rio, new Mandarin Boat and Paradise Club is not working because all same owner.

I don't want to go to Buddha Bar, Vodka Bar, Shooters or Deluxe. I need something like Rio but with the same quantity and quality of girls. So to the people here saying Rio is not good, what's the other places to go?

Member #4491
05-11-12, 15:46
her name is starts with an n and number ends with 973. if you are interested i will pm you the number. dog breath and yellow teeth but a good teenage ass that i fucked twice when she visited me. she responded better after a glass of wine.

[message to admin deleted]

lj, lemming go to one spot / area. i and the ones of us that will avoid one club are rep001tering all over kiev. backfiring analogy? just relax man, and please leave it be. we are all entitled to have an opinion on a club and you do not have to take it personally if i do not agree with you. i asked if the frequency of bitchy attitude is not higher amongst the "good looking" strippers in rio, but never mind. i know that it is so in most other places, so no need to elaborate. just try to stay on topic if you do address my posts here. you only win loneliness by skewing things with 1000000 words, joey. the more enemies you make in your quest to promote something, the less trustworthy you will come across to be. i have no problems with your posts. i just do not agree. just chill and go where you want. over and out from me on that.

a strip bar is not even a fall back for me anywhere in the world. but i know many people here will never say anything negative about their favorite spots, for various reasons. blink. i am not a slim brad pit but there are still options everywhere in kiev. no need to always eat an an over priced mcdonalds. especially if you are not allowed to only lick on the packaging of the burger. but this is just barba's opinion that i share to create some balance here. (lj, please do not take it personally.)

for me is is also about how genuine a place is. i consider a strip club a totally in-genuine (is that a word?) place. if i visit a country, i want to be amongst people and a local and genuine culture, at least the moments i get a chance. if we look at a axis where hard core pros are far to the right and religious marriage girls are far to the left, i want to be around the middle. even if we tilt to the right, we are still within that cultures (read "many cultures") sponsor concept between men and women, and the females that will be in this environment will logically be less mentally corrupt than the ones far out on either side. i avoid the extremes in a normal distribution a statistician would say. illusion is the first of pleasures someone else said, and my illusion breaks within minutes of entering a strip club normally. it is simply a negative energy field for me and a total waste of my precious time unless i have some friends with me to talk to. this is not a continuations on the rio war. just my thoughts on my own modus operandi. no need to defend things (lj et al.)

pedrotoronja said it! guys, read up on the unbalance between women and men in ukraine, and then make your own conclusions to what you need to do to get laid. it was even an article in the inflight magazine of aerosvit. they mentioned that there was less men than women and that the amount of "marriageable men" where even less; hence making the dating sites a very good option for many females. i do not remember the numbers but i was surprised. i never saw that in an inflight magazine before.

barba

editor's note: this report was edited to remove a message directed to the forum admin.

the open forum is not the appropriate venue to contact the forum administration regarding individual questions, complaints or comments about the administration of the forum. instead, please use the contact us link at the bottom of this page to send me an email voicing your complaints about the administration of the forum, and i will respond as quickly as possible. thanks!

Kirch
05-11-12, 17:18
I have been to those clubs and as far as I know and noticed (of course) not all of them are for "take out". Had some bad experience at Deluxe asking the wrong girl how much it is and got a slap in my face. And I was sure she is professional. Same thing at Cavalli in Dubai all the time. Some professionals and rest not. That's actually the only reason.

And I won't say anything more about Rio here.


You give no reason why you won't go to BB, VB, Shooters or D'Lux? Are the girls there not good enough for you? It's hardly more expensive than strip club. Is there some hidden agenda behind your question? Maybe not, but then you must explain yourself better. But don't start this fight over Rio again in the forum. And to (try to) answere your question, you could go into the bar at Lybid hotel, there I have seen several girls and they want 200$ for two hours. It is easy to stop by and ave a look. There is even a small booth there where you can have private dance. I have visited other strip clubs and forgot about it completely. I. O. W, not to be recommended.

Kirch
05-11-12, 17:21
Haha! Totally right, they are served on a platter. That's may be the reason.

So I made my decision. I arrived today and have only tonight before my "girl friend" comes. So I booked my driver who charges USD 15 an hour and doing ALL of the clubs! The only way to find out.


So what you are asking for is a pile of women served to you on a platter. Sorry, but that venue known as River Palace no longer exists and it was not replaced by Rio nightclub.

GreyGoose69
05-11-12, 18:59
I'm in Kiev for the 3rd time this week. It's like summer here, short dresses everywhere.)

Well, I've sent dozen of messages on mamba prior to my trip and I will see a couple of girls + an old sexy friend. BTW, who's that Olya that you guys talk about?

Anyhow, I've been to Rio also, the line up was not so bad, I know that LJ is shilling for Rio but he's right on the description of the girls and this is a nice place to have a beer before going out. I saw many 6s, several 7s and some 8s, the only 9 that I saw that night was on my way to Rio, gorgeous blonde on the street, no english. The. Niet. Shit. Bye.

Rio's Sofia was a 9 on my first trip last year but now she has gained weight and she's working too much, down to a 8, still has her amazing tits and beautiful blue eyes though. Leya is pretty but no english, Margarita is sexy but no take out. I don't remember the 7s names, some were nice but that was not enough for me to take out a girl at 300$. Haven't seen Katya or Leela.

Yesterday, I invited a girl that I've met at Buddha during my last stay, great body cute face, worth the 200$ for 2 hours.

Tonight, I'm going out in clubs looking for freebies. I may go to Odessa next week, I still don't know with which girl.

LilJoey
05-11-12, 23:01
I'm in Kiev for the 3rd time this week. It's like summer here, short dresses everywhere.)

Well, I've sent dozen of messages on mamba prior to my trip and I will see a couple of girls + an old sexy friend. BTW, who's that Olya that you guys talk about?

Anyhow, I've been to Rio also, the line up was not so bad, I know that LJ is shilling for Rio but he's right on the description of the girls and this is a nice place to have a beer before going out. I saw many 6s, several 7s and some 8s, the only 9 that I saw that night was on my way to Rio, gorgeous blonde on the street, no english. The. Niet. Shit. Bye.

Rio's Sofia was a 9 on my first trip last year but now she has gained weight and she's working too much, down to a 8, still has her amazing tits and beautiful blue eyes though. Leya is pretty but no english, Margarita is sexy but no take out. I don't remember the 7s names, some were nice but that was not enough for me to take out a girl at 300$. Haven't seen Katya or Leela.

Yesterday, I invited a girl that I've met at Buddha during my last stay, great body cute face, worth the 200$ for 2 hours.

Tonight, I'm going out in clubs looking for freebies. I may go to Odessa next week, I still don't know with which girl.I am not, nor have I ever "shilled" for any venue. That is a slander started by a poster who had an ulterior agenda. You can read all about it in the separate thread established by the Administrator. I am not shilling for having an opinion that the girls at Rio are pretty hot, any more than you are shilling when you write that same opinion. I have explained my opinion many times. Why can't you and others understand that having an opinion does not make one a shill. Furthermore, my opinion is based on facts and logical conclusions. If you want to dispute me, please do not resort to calling me names to discredit the honesty of my opinions. Please simply debate the facts, or explain why you disagree with my opinion. Is that too much to ask?

My opinion in a nutshell was that I did not care to waste so much time on mamba girls which were not guaranteed to be very hot girls coming to your apartment, and that I preferred venues where I could see the girls in advance, which was the nightclubs and the strip clubs. When I compared the scene at the nightclubs to the strip clubs, I saw that at the time Rio strip club had the cheapest rates in 2011. Those are the reported facts in this forum. Nightclub girls were asking $400 and above, and the lowest reported rates were $300/2hours. Rio was cheaper. Am I a shill for preferring the cheaper venue or merely pointing it out? Also in the nightclubs it wasn't so easy to find which girls were the Working Girls and then to negotiate which took a lot of time. So I saw that it was simpler and quicker at Rio. Am I a shill for choosing the location which made finding a hot girl for p4p to take home to my bed much easier and quicker than at the nightclub? Obviously not. I'm simply choosing to monger where it made most sense for my purposes on a short weekend visit, when I had the budget that would allow me to have fun with very hot young girls. Gia-escort was never a consideration for me because their girls didn't appeal to me.

Now, since I haven't been in the nightclubs for a while, I didn't know for sure the current rates for the hottest girls in the nightclubs. So when I read in 2012 recently that Cruiser D, whom I trust on this, was reporting nightclub girl prices had gone down to $200/2hours, or even less for the hottest girls too, then based on that, my opinion changed as to where is the best place to try to get a hot girl for p4p, and I have written that I intend to try first at the nightclubs, because even though it is still not as efficient as at the strip club, nevertheless the price differential is too significant to ignore, and I regard it as similar to when the River Palace was in existence. I usually never paid more than $200 at the River Palace and was ok with the waiting game that one had to go through until the hottest girls would come down in price. So I can deal with the searching out of the Working Girls at the nightclubs too. The strip clubs will always be there as a back up, if I don't succeed at getting a hottie for the lower prices that are now reported as possible. That's not the opinion of a shill either. Just a logical decision based on the facts on the ground. So please cut out the offensive name calling. It does a disservice to truth.

And by the way, I also like Sophia very much, and met with her recently on Sunday April 1, and She was great as usual, and I got bb BJ but it did cost more money.

Leela Is smokin' hot. I saw Her April 2 and 3. I wonder where she's gone to? Another member (ronaldinjo) also said he did not see her at club.

LJ

LilJoey
05-12-12, 01:26
her name is starts with an n and number ends with 973. if you are interested i will pm you the number. dog breath and yellow teeth but a good teenage ass that i fucked twice when she visited me. she responded better after a glass of wine.

[message to admin deleted]

lj, lemming go to one spot / area. i and the ones of us that will avoid one club are rep001tering all over kiev. backfiring analogy? just relax man, and please leave it be. we are all entitled to have an opinion on a club and you do not have to take it personally if i do not agree with you. i asked if the frequency of bitchy attitude is not higher amongst the "good looking" strippers in rio, but never mind. i know that it is so in most other places, so no need to elaborate. just try to stay on topic if you do address my posts here. you only win loneliness by skewing things with 1000000 words, joey. the more enemies you make in your quest to promote something, the less trustworthy you will come across to be. i have no problems with your posts. i just do not agree. just chill and go where you want. over and out from me on that.

a strip bar is not even a fall back for me anywhere in the world. but i know many people here will never say anything negative about their favorite spots, for various reasons. blink. i am not a slim brad pit but there are still options everywhere in kiev. no need to always eat an an over priced mcdonalds. especially if you are not allowed to only lick on the packaging of the burger. but this is just barba's opinion that i share to create some balance here. (lj, please do not take it personally.)

for me is is also about how genuine a place is. i consider a strip club a totally in-genuine (is that a word?) place. if i visit a country, i want to be amongst people and a local and genuine culture, at least the moments i get a chance. if we look at a axis where hard core pros are far to the right and religious marriage girls are far to the left, i want to be around the middle. even if we tilt to the right, we are still within that cultures (read "many cultures") sponsor concept between men and women, and the females that will be in this environment will logically be less mentally corrupt than the ones far out on either side. i avoid the extremes in a normal distribution a statistician would say. illusion is the first of pleasures someone else said, and my illusion breaks within minutes of entering a strip club normally. it is simply a negative energy field for me and a total waste of my precious time unless i have some friends with me to talk to. this is not a continuations on the rio war. just my thoughts on my own modus operandi. no need to defend things (lj et al.)

pedrotoronja said it! guys, read up on the unbalance between women and men in ukraine, and then make your own conclusions to what you need to do to get laid. it was even an article in the inflight magazine of aerosvit. they mentioned that there was less men than women and that the amount of "marriageable men" where even less; hence making the dating sites a very good option for many females. i do not remember the numbers but i was surprised. i never saw that in an inflight magazine before.

barba.

editor's note: this report was edited to remove a message directed to the forum admin.

the open forum is not the appropriate venue to contact the forum administration regarding individual questions, complaints or comments about the administration of the forum. instead, please use the contact us link at the bottom of this page to send me an email voicing your complaints about the administration of the forum, and i will respond as quickly as possible. thanks! barba, as you obviously didn't read what i wrote to you, let me simplify it. you wrote a post saying essentially that you don't like hot girls who are bitchy. i saw no need to respond to that and didn't. then you asked me why i didn't respond. so i responded and told you that i agree and also don't like hotties who are bitchy. and i added that is what i do in the interview process. i weed out the bitchy girls. and one must do that in all venues where one mongers.

i am looking for a sweet gfe experience with a very pretty and sexy young girl for as reasonable a price as can be obtained within a reasonable amount of time in relation to the 3 or 4 nights of my visit to kiev.

if you are looking for the same thing, then we are on the same page. then we can discuss how best to achieve such a goal.

if you are looking for something else, then i'm not sure what you want.

i took no offense to anything you wrote.

lj

Muddy7
05-12-12, 06:51
I'm sending some of Joey posts to the cops in Kiev I don't think Rio is paying them enough

Esvees
05-12-12, 08:47
Found a bunch of places listed here outside places like Rio that gets mentioned a lot:

http://striptease.ua/eng/

I'll be on my first trip to Kiev next week, just want a few pointers.

I red that the bill in a place like Paradise Cabaret can easily go sky-high as you're almost expected to spend $1000 or more. (champagne etc.)

What's the damage like in somewhere like Rio? Also, can you take the girls out later, is that an individual decision or is that usually not an option?

Thanks

PedroToronja
05-12-12, 15:16
Saw 3 mamba girls yesterday. 2 were undoable, one of them fat. 1 was so so. 6-7 by Kiev standarts, send her home. Invited my beautiful queen Olya, she agreed 200$ for 5 hours. We dined and then to my place, wow, she was great, what a girl. I'm drained once more. Went to Rio at night (about 2-3 o clock) , poor lineup compared to previous night, a lot of unattractive girls. Stayed for 2 hours and than back home dreaming about my Olya. Mandarin is supposed to open wery soon, but I'm leaving very soon.Olya is 23 year old, Taurus, looking for man up to 50 years old? If so, did she give you sex, or just erotic massage as she advertises? I go for the full monty, or else.

GreyGoose69
05-12-12, 16:58
I am not, nor have I ever "shilled" for any venue. That is a slander started by a poster who had an ulterior agenda. You can read all about it in the separate thread established by the Administrator. I am not shilling for having an opinion that the girls at Rio are pretty hot, any more than you are shilling when you write that same opinion. I have explained my opinion many times. Why can't you and others understand that having an opinion does not make one a shill. Furthermore, my opinion is based on facts and logical conclusions. If you want to dispute me, please do not resort to calling me names to discredit the honesty of my opinions. Please simply debate the facts, or explain why you disagree with my opinion. Is that too much to ask?

My opinion in a nutshell was that I did not care to waste so much time on mamba girls which were not guaranteed to be very hot girls coming to your apartment, and that I preferred venues where I could see the girls in advance, which was the nightclubs and the strip clubs. When I compared the scene at the nightclubs to the strip clubs, I saw that at the time Rio strip club had the cheapest rates in 2011. Those are the reported facts in this forum. Nightclub girls were asking $400 and above, and the lowest reported rates were $300/2hours. Rio was cheaper. Am I a shill for preferring the cheaper venue or merely pointing it out? Also in the nightclubs it wasn't so easy to find which girls were the Working Girls and then to negotiate which took a lot of time. So I saw that it was simpler and quicker at Rio. Am I a shill for choosing the location which made finding a hot girl for p4p to take home to my bed much easier and quicker than at the nightclub? Obviously not. I'm simply choosing to monger where it made most sense for my purposes on a short weekend visit, when I had the budget that would allow me to have fun with very hot young girls. Gia-escort was never a consideration for me because their girls didn't appeal to me.

Now, since I haven't been in the nightclubs for a while, I didn't know for sure the current rates for the hottest girls in the nightclubs. So when I read in 2012 recently that Cruiser D, whom I trust on this, was reporting nightclub girl prices had gone down to $200/2hours, or even less for the hottest girls too, then based on that, my opinion changed as to where is the best place to try to get a hot girl for p4p, and I have written that I intend to try first at the nightclubs, because even though it is still not as efficient as at the strip club, nevertheless the price differential is too significant to ignore, and I regard it as similar to when the River Palace was in existence. I usually never paid more than $200 at the River Palace and was ok with the waiting game that one had to go through until the hottest girls would come down in price. So I can deal with the searching out of the Working Girls at the nightclubs too. The strip clubs will always be there as a back up, if I don't succeed at getting a hottie for the lower prices that are now reported as possible. That's not the opinion of a shill either. Just a logical decision based on the facts on the ground. So please cut out the offensive name calling. It does a disservice to truth.

And by the way, I also like Sophia very much, and met with her recently on Sunday April 1, and She was great as usual, and I got bb BJ but it did cost more money.

Leela Is smokin' hot. I saw Her April 2 and 3. I wonder where she's gone to? Another member (ronaldinjo) also said he did not see her at club.

LJAlright, I was wrong to call you a shill LJ but your rating of Rio's girls seems a bit high. I've talked to the cutest ones in all 3 rooms, either they were a 9 for face, a 9 for body or a 9 for attitude but I haven't met any 9 overall to take out. Vlada would be the closest one to a 9 if it was not for her bad attitude. Again, I have not seen Katya and the mysterious Leela. BTW, can you provide a good description of Leela? I will ask the manager if she's still around. IMO, Best face: Martha, Best body: Vlada Best attitude: Sofia. Girls in nightclubs like Sky Bar and Dlux are as hot as the best looking girls in RIO, easy to talk to, fun to dance with but freebies are tough to bring home. So I understand why you love Rio so much, if you have money, it's a good alternative for a short stay in Kiev. Now I still think that there are better deals in town, freebies if you're good looking, mamba if you're lucky and 6s or 7s if you are horny.

LilJoey
05-13-12, 08:15
Alright, I was wrong to call you a shill LJ but your rating of Rio's girls seems a bit high. I've talked to the cutest ones in all 3 rooms, either they were a 9 for face, a 9 for body or a 9 for attitude but I haven't met any 9 overall to take out. Vlada would be the closest one to a 9 if it was not for her bad attitude. Again, I have not seen Katya and the mysterious Leela. BTW, can you provide a good description of Leela? I will ask the manager if she's still around. IMO, Best face: Martha, Best body: Vlada Best attitude: Sofia. Girls in nightclubs like Sky Bar and Dlux are as hot as the best looking girls in RIO, easy to talk to, fun to dance with but freebies are tough to bring home. So I understand why you love Rio so much, if you have money, it's a good alternative for a short stay in Kiev. Now I still think that there are better deals in town, freebies if you're good looking, mamba if you're lucky and 6s or 7s if you are horny.Thanks for the civilized response.

You hit the nail on the head. Yes, there are pretty girls all over, in the nightclubs and in the streets. But you can't have them for sex. So if it's sex you're after with such pretty young girls, you need to follow the correct method to get it, and it involves paying a bit more than for just average looking girls.

Your last line is absolutely correct."there are better deals in town, freebies if you're good looking, mamba if you're lucky and 6s or 7s if you are horny". Couldn't have said it better.

As to your comment about me giving a 9 rating, factually, I haven't been in the ratings game for quite some time, so I don't recall rating anyone specifically as a "9", and I have taken pains to not give specific ratings ever since the Fall of 2011. Instead, What I will usually say is that there are girls in the 8 to 9 range, or that a girl is an 8 to 9. I don't believe one can be more specific than this in a way that is useful to others.

Last year. 2011, I conducted an experiment whereby I posted some pics of the Playboy Centerfolds I liked and thought should be considered 10's, and solicited comment from the members. The results proved that there is truly no way for exact consistency in opinions on beauty.

Ever since then I have actually shied away from ascribing one specific number rating to any girl I met. I found that some guys would agree with my number, some would put the girl at one number higher, and some would rate her one number lower, and these comprised more or less a majority of men. As a result of that experiment and the discussion that ensued, I concluded that it was more useful to speak of an upper category of women 8 or above, or women who were 8 to 9's. This would communicate to others that the girl was regarded as very hot or beautiful, instead of just average or above average. Some might think her an 8, some might consider her a 9, and this was a close enough way of communicating that she was deserving of attention as a beautiful girl. I explained this approach in posting a list last Fall 2011, after numerous visits to Rio, that listed those girls that I thought were "worth taking a look at", by which I meant they were better than just average / above average.

But, having said all that, if I did say a girl was a 9 specifically, it was to indicate she is in the very top eschelon of girls at the club. No 10's can be given as it is in the realm of men's fantasies.

As for Leela, I posted a description of Leela just a few pages back in response to the requests by Ronaldinjo. She is a girl whom I have seen at the Rio club during visits in 2011 and finally had the opportunity to speak to and ultimately to date on my most recent Kiev visit March 30 to April 4, 2012. She is quite pretty facially, has light brown hair and a very sexy body. I feel she is cover girl material, having seen some of her professional modeling photos. Ronaldinjo said he asked the managers and that they said they don't know to whom he was referring. I asked him which managers, but haven't heard back on it. Perhaps the managers don't give out information as freely to those they do not know for a long time and trust. Or perhaps she has moved on and no longer works there. Or perhaps there is another explanation. I don't know. Her services are GFE and top notch. She is one of the best girls I have met at the club. Leela's friend was Vladislava. It doesn't seem it's the same girl you are referring to as Vlada. Vladislava was very friendly to me. Very pretty eyes and face. Slim and sexy. Jet black hair. If you are lucky enough to figure out how to meet Leela or Vladislava, I would be interested to hear about it. Unfortunately, I will not be back in Kiev until September or October.

Sophia and Katya are not on Leela's level, in my opinion. Katya has gained a little also since the time I first met her last year, but she is still a wholesome, beautiful princess with awesome long brunette hair, although she is very health conscious and wants everything covered, safe sex. Sophia is more flexible re services. Both are super nice girls and very GFE to be with.

LilJoey
05-13-12, 09:24
Sorry, LJ it got lost in all the text here. Please bare in mind that English is not even my second language so sometimes I get confused with all the words. I will be more cautious next time I read your creations. I have been touching the fact that I have unfavorable experiences of female sex workers from strip clubs but I can only interpret your posts as if you have finally found the once city (or perhaps club) in the world where the hard core hookers in a strip club still have a sweet GFE personality, at least with the same distribution as the rest of society. Great news! Thank you for sharing this, because this is sort of a dream. 9s and 10s who works in the sex industry and still display no dents from this harsh environment are quite rare if you look at a global scene. It requires quite a lot from a girl to dance all night and then fuck a new guy every night, and still be able to connect like a real girlfriend. I am glad that such a paradise exists. Once again, thank you LJ for sharing this extraordinary information. Now I think we will really see some lemming trails to this country (and club). Blink.

BarbaOk. I can't help the long posts sometimes. What is your native language?

Let's not overstate the case. I have decidedly NOT found the Paradise you describe of "9s and 10s who works in the sex industry and still display no dents from this harsh environment" and "hard core hookers in a strip club still have a sweet GFE personality, at least with the same distribution as the rest of society".

Factually, I have stayed away from the ratings games, because not every guy agrees exactly on a rating, so I have found it more useful to speak of girls who are 8 and above, ever since sometime last year in the Fall of 2011. My posts since that time do not speak of 9's and 10's. No one agrees what is a 10 anyways. The best way to break down the girls' appearance is into three categories: (1) girls who are not doable, meaning they are so unappealing you would not desire sex with them for free, let alone pay for it. (2) average looking, or even above average looking girls who are doable, but only if you are horny, and because they have a very cheap price. This includes many of the mamba. Ru girls from the fake picture internet websites who are 6's and 7's. And (3) girls who are desireable because of their very good looks. 8's and above, and for whom you would pay a higher price for because of their beauty.

So in the expensive club you speak of, I have been looking for girls in the third category. 8's and above. I have not been seeing 10's there. And only a select few whom I personally would rate as 9's. So in writing posts for others, what I try to do is speak of girls who are 8's and above, or in the 8 to 9 range, and let each individual man rate her for themselves when they check her out.

As the the issue of "sweetness" or GFE capacity of the girls, I am not saying anything statistical about the girls in the club, such as that most of them are sweet or GFE. Quite the opposite. I have been candid in describing the interview and search process that is necessary to engage in, in order to find girls that I feel will be GFE when I get them back to my apartment. If you will read my earlier posts on the subject, you will understand.

Having said that, what I will say further is that as a result of the care with which I try to select the girls I take home, that I have been fortunate to be with many GFE girls, who were very sweet, and with whom I repeat many times, because of their beauty and their sweetness.

The important thing for you to take away from this post is that at the strip club of which we speak, there are sufficient numbers of girls capable of giving you a GFE experience, for you to invest the effort in trying to find them and meet them. For success on that path would be very rewarding. Obviously To Succeed you will need to have mongering skills, and to know how to sense what a girl is about from some conversation with her, as well as the more intimate type of "interview" you can conduct during a "private dance" with a girl in the club when you see if there is any chemistry between you.

The question you raise is, why is it possible to find GFE type girls in a sex working environment, and why aren't they hardened and bitchy?

One reason might be that there are constantly new girls being hired from the universities or the provinces, who are fresh and unspoilt. These girls haven't had the time in the business to become jaded and hardened bitches. Additionally, The girls who work at the club are not "required" to go with any and every customer to his apartment, they are not your customary "hardened sex workers". They can choose to go with whom they like, and so it is important to get them to like you, just like date with any woman. It is also perhaps the reason that a GFE type date can ensue, since you began the relationship with the girl, by you yourself being your sweetest and nicest to her, and she responded with warmth and good feelings and vibes. So it progresses from there. It can be a high level GFE date, but you are part of the equation yourself. If you don't act gentlemanly and sweet, then probably a GFE type nice girl will never go with you on a date. Why do the nice girls do this work? Because they need the money. All over Ukraine are wonderful nice pretty girls looking for a guy to sponsor and help them. It seems that some of these nice girls get recruited into the strip club, and are available there. I guess over time, the environment might get to them and they become less sweet and GFE, but in the beginning they are genuinely sweet and lot's of fun to be with.

I don't think it is only possible at the club I frequented. It is probably possible to find GFE at the other strip clubs too, although they are more pricey than Rio. I stopped into Dolls during my last visit in April, and some of the girls there had good potential. But the price at Dolls of $300/2hours was higher than Rio so I didn't bite.

In over a year of dates with Rio girls, I never yet took home a girl who turned out to be bitchy. They were all nice and sweet and fun to be with, although a few didn't provide what is considered the full range of GFE services, namely to include BBBJ. But even though the BJ was covered, everything else about the sex and the date of several hours was fun and GFE. So it's possible, Barba, but only if you have the skills to choose the girl wisely.

Barba, if you would avoid strip clubs as a venue for mongering in Kiev, and choose instead to go to regular nightclubs to find Working Girls, you do not at all avoid this crucial issue of the difficulty of finding a girl who is GFE!

Any guy who is poicking up any Working Girl anywhere, will confront the question of whether she will be GFE or not. That's true in the nightclubs, in the strip clubs, off of mamba website. ANYWHERE.

So avoiding strip clubs, and going to nightclubs instead, gets you nowhere on this GFE issue. As to the issue of finding GFE, it is all the same. One must be on one's guard, and choose carefully.

The issue for me about deciding where to go in Kiev was about the cheapest price for a very hot girl of 8 level and above, and avoiding time waste on a short trip. Based on those criteria, it was River Palace, then it became cheaper at Rio during 2011, and now in 2012, according to Cruiser D, it is cheaper at nightclubs other than Buddha bar. But in all those venues, there was never any guarantee on GFE, and one always had to be very careful, and interview the girl very specifically, and choose very wisely.

LJ

Cruiser D
05-13-12, 20:24
Skip the strip clubs and go to the disco's the semi pro's go to. I suggest D'Lux, SkyBar, Arena.


Found a bunch of places listed here outside places like Rio that gets mentioned a lot:

http://striptease.ua/eng/

I'll be on my first trip to Kiev next week, just want a few pointers.

I red that the bill in a place like Paradise Cabaret can easily go sky-high as you're almost expected to spend $1000 or more. (champagne etc.)

What's the damage like in somewhere like Rio? Also, can you take the girls out later, is that an individual decision or is that usually not an option?

Thanks

Prosal
05-13-12, 20:58
baby likes daddy in a suit.Well, depends of the suit. An 1500€ Roberto Cavalli, Pal Zileri or Zegna suit (slim cut, straight pants, two buttons, ect) and a 500$ out of date three buttons suit with pleat-front pants (or worse, cuffs) are two very different things. Slavic girls are VERY fashion-conscious and are very good at jauging what you wear (and very fast to write you off if they judge that you are cheap and has-been).

Recently I bumped into the photo galleries of the famous "romance tours in Ukraine" organized for yanks by Anastasia dot com (or something alike) and I ROTFLOL just to see how most of the guys were dressed, that is with outmoded and cheap suits.

Anyway, I don't imagine myself wearing a suit in a club, but as usual, to each its own.

El Cubanito
05-14-12, 01:10
I am African American and I actually been here in Kiev for 1 month and will be here for 2 more months. I have wesley snipes complexion (very dark) but like to think I have a really cool style when it comes to fashion. Pedro was right in the sense of not walking by yourself at night out of crowded areas downtown and nearby clubs or bars. Now granted I will be honest. I have only been out 1 time since I have been here and that was to TGI Fridays with a puerto rican friend of mines. I got stares from women but none in which I could actually decipher and I kept walking. I chose not to speak cause I figured they either did not speak english or would not speak to me in fear of ukranian men watching them or something. (that was my reasoning). Now I could have been wrong but if you step out. You will get stares from men also (some good, some bad). In reality no one on this site can tell you what people think about you because they are not black. Now they can go off what women may tell them or darker complexion friends they may have went out with. Climax kindly gave me pointers also as to what to expect here and you get mixed reviews. Some guys here will say ukranian women love darker complexion guys because you would be considered exotic, some guys will tell you ukranian women may or may not talk to you. I decided to use mamba and banged 2 chicks. Both about 6 or 7 in my book, but they were both freebies simply because they were fascinated with black men. I got a few messages from women who said they are not into black men so it's a toss up. While you are in town. Let me know and I may hang with you. Granted I have not stepped foot in a single club or bar except TGI Fridays. I am still earning this placeHey man thank you for giving me insight as to what I might expect over there when I get there. I do hope I have fun. I have a good picture from what everybody has told me and have read in past posts. Guys, I do have one more question. Taxi Cabs in Ukraine, to be exact in Kiev, what is the story with them? If I get in one late at night say at 2:00 AM from Rio will this be a problem for me? Will I be found the next day without no money in my pockets? Or do I have to call one of those taxi services that I seen on this Kiev Section? Poker in your report you stated that you stay away from taxi one night when you were coming out of Rio. Did you stay away because of problems that you knew might happen? Or because you wre close to your apartment? Poker you had the house owner pick you up at the airport. Why did you not take a taxi? Safety issues? What is going on with these taxi drivers. Magic you can give your 2 cents also.

Ronaldinjo
05-14-12, 07:02
Over all my trip was pleasant. As a city Kiev sucks, but there are a lot of beautiful girls and facially I find ukrainian girls to be best in europe (I have been in all europe) , better than their Russian sisters.

Summary:

1. Mamba was great this time, best girl in my trip I have got from mamba, better than any stripper in Rio and dalls. One more girl at least 8 for me, very hot. Conclusion: recommended highly, but you need to be patient and a little bit lucky. And to be prepared for some trolls in the way. As Lj said, its a game of numbers.

2. Bordels. Been in some of them, the problem is that you need to come and see in peak time when a whole lineup is present, when I came I saw only pairs of girls, others were bizzy, saw some nice girls for 1000 / h, but didn't take them as I didn't find anyone above 7, and was very tired from previous sessions with my mamba princess. But I must confess that I saw only few chicks, if you are patient you can certainly find a very nice girls there as my buddy told me. And the girls seemed very nice from attitude point of view.

3. Rio. Have been several times, there certainly were some very nice girls and some ugly ones too. Unfortunately, most of the best ones are not takeout yet. Lj, asked once more mikhael and pasha about leela, and they didn't know about whom I was talking about. I don't think that the reason is they hide something, they were very friendly and open, tald me everything, helped me, but no such girl as leela (changed her name?). Saw vladislava, nice looking girl, but didn't talk to her. Made some privat dances, including wih katya, who has great legs and is very sexy, taled no DATY in first meeting, talked to leaya, katrin, margarita, but they are not for takeout unfortunately, except maybe margarita, which was takeout possibility, but didn't like her attitude towards me. All in all didn't take out any girl for sex, the main reason is my mamba princess, which drained me completelly, but Rio is good option if you don't find something better. Albait expensive (if you take out girl, tips, drinks, taxy its minimum 400$/3h) its very important friends that you inform us about girls (as Lj does very professionaly, as Muddy did also) about girls names, takeout possibilities, their attitude. It can help us a lot. Haven't been in mandarin.

4. Dalls. Nice place, girls are very friendly, only 20 work, much less visitors than Rio, very good service, saw 2-3 nice girls, talked to 2 them (Irina and Nika?) both of them agreed DATY and uncovered BJ. 300$ for 2 hours from entering the hous till departure, I don't think you need more than 2 hours with girls, liked girls attitude, but once more, was very tired and preffered to waist my remaining money on my mamba princess (that in my opinion was better than any dancer I saw in both Rio and dalls).

5. Clubs. Didn't search for girls there this time as my graphic was very tense.

Harry Hardman
05-15-12, 13:35
Good insight.

Like Jojosun says: 'It's all in the eyes of beer holder.

In general, it's so true, and it does depend on what a man is used to looking and getting. If a man is used to looking and getting below average girls, suddenly an above average girl shows up, he'll think she's a stunner. But you'll be surprised, quite a few guys "over 50, bald, fat, some with eyeglasses dirty blue jeans and t-shirts" knows the difference between a 6 and a 9; perhaps they'd just like to give readers the impression that they are doing a girl who is not better looking than she really is.


You know, when I went to RIO I see many guys over 50, bald, fat, some with eyeglasses dirty blue jeans and t-shirts. To them probably every girl is a 10, so it all depends.

The good thing about RIO is that you see the girls body and you can see her pussy (private dance) before you take her home, not all pussies look nice and pretty.

I don't mind visiting RIO if I just happen to be Kiev for business or whatever but I will never travel to Kiev just for RIO, most girls are just average or below average, its very hard to find a good looking dancer to take home outside the VIP room, and some of the girls in the VIP room won't go home with you, they are just dancers.

Do you guys know a good site for uploading videos? I can upload a video of a dancer masturbating on my sofa while I was in the shower.

If you you have a weak personality the dancers will not stay with you for 3 hours, they will come to your flat, will give you a covered BJ and have sex and then waste time talking to you and so on they are very good in killing time, you have to make it clear to them its for 3 hours, there was a dancer who was giving me a BJ and a hand job like we have only 15 minutes, I had to slow her down and tell her I don't want a handjob and remind her we have 3 hours not 15 minutes

Muddy7
05-17-12, 17:16
FINAL RIO REPORT.

If you happen to be in Kiev and you are looking for p4p then its a good place to checkout.

But its crazy to get on a long flight and travel to Kiev just for RIO.

Girls I took home:

Isabella- red hair, nice body and tits and nice attitude but I won't repeat.

Bella- Blond, I won't repeat, may post a video of her masturbating on my sofa while I was in the shower, LOL.

Katya- dark hair, nice body, didn't like her attitude that much, definitely won't repeat.

Ada- dark hair, nice body, nice attitude but won't repeat.

Sophia- blonde, nice body, great tits, saw her 2 times.

Almost all the girls I mentioned above don't do BBBJ, you can try offering them more money.

Rosa- very average body, dark hair, very pretty face but won't repeat.

Lera, blond, didn't think she was attractive enough to take home for $300.

Derina- $500 girl, nice body but small tits, not pretty, she is definitely not worth it for $500 especially since she does not do BBBJ.

There were some girl I really wanted to take home but they don't go out with men they meet in the club like Zlatta, Leya, Katrin, Margarita (?)

So when you read in some posts there are 150 girls working there don't think all 150 are hookers.

Overall I was disappointed, didn't think there were that many pretty girls there but if I happen to be in Kiev and I have free time and looking for p4p I will go there again.

I think if you find a girl outside VIP room she may give you a better time than the VIP girls often mentioned in LilJoey posts

Muddy7
05-17-12, 17:16
This is what Joey gets from the RIO girls:

1- When you add the cost of his trip he is really paying over $450 for every meeting.

2- I seriously doubt the majority of the dancers stay with him for the full 3 hours.

3- I would say 9 out of every 10 dancer he takes home do not give him BBBJ, I also doubt the majority of the dancers would let him do DATY if he wants to.

4- Joey is over 50, his trips are very short and he says every night he takes a dancer home, I doubt he fucks her more than one time.

5- the majority of the time he is just talking to her.

So, he is really paying over $450 for less than 3 hours for covered blow job and lots of talking, I guess Joey thinks this is great sex, its really dumb to fly over 24 hours just for this, LOL.

Its interesting how an old man from NY takes so much time writing all these long posts pimping a night club and only travels to Kiev for RIO, LOL.

Hey Joey, are sure you are not the old English teacher who gives English lessons to dancers at RIO?

Muddy7
06-17-12, 22:58
LJ is lying about getting bbj from girls at RIO too, so many of his posts about RIO are just bullshit.

Look how many hookers do bbj at gia.

http://gia.la/

The number of dancers who do bbj at RIO is much less than gia.

If LJ is not a shill then he is just stupid, only a dumb loser would spend so much time writing all this bullshit and think RIO is his best option, what a fool.


LJ, I read the first three lines and had to stop. It is only you who don't understand. I will just come and hold your hand instead, LJ. I will help you to type even.

You are the first to make it onto my block list ever here on ISG. Not because you are pathetic but because you are meaningless.

I will not see your responses but I am sure they will be lengthy and verbose, aiming at defending your manhood for your fantasy mates here at ISG. Don't forget to mention RIO at least once a day here.

Barba

KushyKush
06-12-16, 20:25
Hey,

I just read over most of the posts on the last few pages and seem to get a consensus of around $150 or so for 1 hour for takeout. Is this agreed upon in the club and including the bar fee? Does the agreed upon price vary per girl or per club or is it fairly standard throughout? For example takeout at Rio will always be 200/ hour and SG will be 150/ hour (I remember seeing a takeout price on the menu at SG). Or is that takeout price simply the bar fine and you have to pay the girl on top of that?

I was in Kiev 1.5 years ago but didn't partake in any takeout. Looking to visit a few clubs including Rio / solid gold (was at solid gold 1.5 years ago and loved the ladies there). I have 3 Tinder girls lined up so hopefully that'll amount to something but we'll see.

Will report back when I get back from each club (arriving there tomorrow and staying for 3 days).

Thanks.

KushyKush
06-12-16, 20:31
How does it work picking up semi-pros at clubs like D'lux and Skybar? I'm 27, fairly fit and good looking Asian guy (although I look 20 years old and am only 5'4. Do girls just approach you to just chat? Do you approach the girl? How do you know if they are a semi-pro (working) or not? I've picked up at strip clubs before (not Kiev) and have mongered in the USA for sometime but the protocol is entirely different (usually straight escorts only). Also what is the prevalence of English of the girls in the clubs? I know zilch for Ukrainian (although I'm tempted to learn).

Any tips would be appreciated thanks!

Reiner Otto
06-14-16, 22:18
How does it work picking up semi-pros at clubs like D'lux and Skybar? Never been in these places, but in quite a few other discos all over UA.

In short words: The pros might start to talk to you; the semis only signal their interest. Some eye contact in the beginning helps.

For me, it worked best, just standing at bar, dance floor etc. Girl either came over to park her glas a few meters besides mine at the bar.

Or dansed more or less close in front of me.

YOU are the man, so you have to be active then.

Of course, you can also park your glas besides the one of the beauty and stat to talk.

Only be careful, not to upset her local "master" .

Riina
06-14-16, 22:55
YOU are the man, so you have to be active then.Very very important in UA.

OldMcDonald
04-23-17, 22:10
How did you get on in Kiev?

I'm in the same boat, 27 Asian with no Ukrainian.

Any pointers you could share?


How does it work picking up semi-pros at clubs like D'lux and Skybar? I'm 27, fairly fit and good looking Asian guy (although I look 20 years old and am only 5'4. Do girls just approach you to just chat? Do you approach the girl? How do you know if they are a semi-pro (working) or not? I've picked up at strip clubs before (not Kiev) and have mongered in the USA for sometime but the protocol is entirely different (usually straight escorts only). Also what is the prevalence of English of the girls in the clubs? I know zilch for Ukrainian (although I'm tempted to learn).

Any tips would be appreciated thanks!

SgtBoyle2
05-03-17, 20:50
How did you get on in Kiev?

I'm in the same boat, 27 Asian with no Ukrainian.

Any pointers you could share?Gents,

You need to read up on the psychology of Russian / Ukrainian women. First off no CIS girl ever approaches a guy: period. Pros will give you the look but even they will wait for you to make the first move. Second normal rules of dating / pick-up do not apply. If they sleep with you it's because:

1. They need to pay the rent; and / or.

2. You are a rich and successful enough man to justify such indulgence.

These women do not think: do I fancy this man. They think is this man rich enough / successful enough for me to associate with him. Looking fit may reduce the price but they are not going to fall in.

Love with you in a club. Time and again I've been told the flowing by girls I've hooked up with:

A man's looks are irrelevant, what matters is:

1. Will he take care of me?

2. Does he love me?

If these questions are answered in the affirmative then a girl will come to love you, be you fat, bald or old. For the avoidance of doubt I'm not lacking in the looks, height or fitness department but I can assure you that none of that has ever made very much difference. Being rich (in their eyes), kind and successful matter far more.

Hope that assists.

Tomek123
12-14-17, 01:45
In general, you can draw certain conclusions. I personally do not have any solid categorical rules. Although of course the payment in the end has its own sense of a certain logic. I will not argue.

Just when the girl has not yet received the money, you can afford a little more in bed. It's Ukraine. You can slap her ass. Or take her hair. Or use some vulgar words. But in moderation of course. I for example after the first orgasm I force to caress tongue my nipples or testicles. Maybe the girl would like to not do this but just leave. But she thinks about money and does it all. To get her money. You should not be too rude or brutal like some western guys do. Who think that the Ukrainian girl is not a man but an animal. These guys think-these girls work for a month for 150 dollars. Why should I treat them with respect? They are just cheap females for sex and stupid white Africans.

But it's the wrong thinking. The girl will suck your dick and lick your balls to get your monthly salary or half your salary. But she will have an unpleasant memory of you. And she probably will not offer you her girlfriends. Besides such an official and brutal attitude deprives you of certain advantages. For example, it can make you a good advertisement. Among her girlfriends.

I call this the,principle of acute needle,.

The needle can penetrate the arteries even in the heart of a person / never need to neglect contacts and connections in Ukraine. You have to understand that a girl in Ukraine generally likes gossip and has many girlfriends. If you lick her pussy then tomorrow all her friends will know that she met at a cafe with an American and he spent an hour (they are always inclined to lie a bit) licking her pussy. And they will know how much money she earned. They can also try to use this girl as a way to get to know you and then have a good time at a nightclub or have a good meal at a cafe. But do not be an Arab sheik. You need to appreciate your money. You can treat them a little but no more. You can with humor offer sex threesome. They will joke and laugh. But it's not scary. At one point I just at a table in a cafe put my hands on the hands of two girls and gently stroked them. I fucked one of them for three hours before that. You can always play with them a bit. One day a girl ate an ice cream I bought her. Her friend Tania before this sucked my cock and sat next to cafe. I began to admire how she eats ice cream. She began to smile. Girlfriend also began to smile and giggle. I told her that she just could outshine Sasha Gray and many others. She laughed and. She found out about me from the stories of Tanya and also obviously wanted to make some money. I was able to fuck her in three days.

You must understand that you must give the girl a feeling of friendship. Then it will be easier for her to suck your cock and you can be more brutal with her in bed. It's Slavic psychology. Here the conventions are necessary. You can not be too calculating and extremely rational. You need to put on all the fake friendship. Because Ukraine attracts men from all over the world thanks to their semi-pro or ordinary girls.

An ordinary young girl has a much worse economic situation and needs money. The same girl in Belgium does not have such huge problems.

But this does not mean that you should be too soft and full of botanists. No. Of course. Here a man must be brave and strong. This is the mentality of the Ukrainian and Russian women. In other words, you should not treat them like animals. But at the same time you have to keep balance. Western guys should understand that they have much in common with Latin American girls or African-American girls. Sometimes I use light dictatorial methods during sex. For example Olga, a girl from Sumy, she did not want to support me in a pause after the first orgasm. But I first put my finger in her mouth. She started to suck it. Liked it. Feel her tongue. Hot and wet. But she probably wanted to get away from work. But she probably wanted to get away from work. I took her easily by the hair and bent and made me fondle my tongue around the dick. At first she resisted and did not want to caress my balls with her tongue but I insisted on my. I took her head gently but strongly and she realized that she should lick my balls. This is the art in sex with the Slavs-you must let the Ukrainian understand that she must submit to your will but at the same time do not offend her dignity. . you male and your will is the law. You want to put your finger in her mouth. Do it. You want to take her by the hair and do it. The main thing is your desires and your fire. I realized it long ago. The main thing is soft power. No hysteria and sheer brutality. You should use soft power and slowly break her will. Without violence. . so Ukrainians like me more than Polish women. They are more submissive to the male power. Especially this is manifested during sex. She must feel that inside you are a terrible hungry predator. It's okay if in the suites you press your excited dick to her pope when she will do something in the kitchen or talk to her girlfriend on the phone. And start to imitate the penetration. She can try to resist little. You do not necessarily have to do the same sex as written in books for guys from the USA or Canada. There is a long gentle foreplay. Long cunnilingus. All just for a woman. You have to understand that Ukrainians girls like animal beastly lust. She should feel yours bestial desire of the male. You want to fuck her. You want to shove your penis into her mouth. Do it. She should see your desire. Your standing as a stick dick. You can put it on your stomach and simulate a little sex. She will feel a hard cock in your pants and that's fine. Then you send her to the shower. Do not think that if she is a student of political science or philosophy, then this is what it means. She is primarily a Ukrainian woman. She should feel your power of the male. So give vent to your animal power. And do not think about when you should finish or like it or not. If you are captured by the fire of brutal animal passion, then the Ukrainian woman will also have a pleasure. When she comes out of the shower, then tear off her towel and throw it on the bed and throw it on her like a wild, crazy Arab guy from the desert. Turn her to the stomach and push her legs apart with a strong movement and when you put on a condom, then take her by the hair and go into it and put a few hard punches on the whole length of your dick. Then be sure to put her in the doggie position and show hard sex and masculine domination. You can slap her hand on the ass. But do not necessarily make a long marathon run. When you put her in the dog's position she will understand that you are the main and she is your female. It's only you and your bestial will to possess. She must feel it. In Ukraine and Russia this is a very popular position and it is like a signal and more than just a position. The woman is in the dog's pose and thus shows that she obeyed your will. Next you have to fuck hard her and do not be afraid that you seem too brutal. If you want to publish moans or other sounds then do it. You can call her name during a hard fuck. Grab her by the hair but do not hurt of course. When your pleasure reaches its peak you enter it even harder and deeper. Apply deep hard quick strokes. Do not think about its enjoyment but just be a wild animal. You will be surprised that she will look at you after sex as an all-new male. You can make her cunnilingus if you do this if she does not finish. You can not do this. As you decide yourself. The main thing you do not have to fuck the Western pattern and endlessly think about the pleasure of a woman. You have to understand that women in Ukraine enjoy that they feel your strength and your bestial desire. It is sometimes more important for them than gentle cunnilingus three hours in a row and kisses.

You should be cheerful. Not very boring. Not very pedantic. But at the same time you must come from the fluids of masculinity and confidence. The latent fluids. You can suddenly lift it into the air and say-wow, you're such an airy girl. Like a feather.

This is actually a brief observation.

1) you should be cheerful. Not very boring. Not very pedantic. But at the same time you must come from the fluids of masculinity and confidence. The latent male fluids.

2) she should feel yours bestial desire of the male. Put her during sex in doggy position. In Ukraine and Russia this is a very popular position and it is like a signal and more than just a position. The woman is in the dog's pose and thus shows that she obeyed your will. A woman here likes to feel the power of a male over her. Do not be afraid of hard sex and do not think too much about her pleasure or her orgasm. Before orgasm, fuck it even faster and more brutal. Do not be afraid to cover her body with sperm or even a face. Or chest.

3) the main thing you do not have to fuck the Western pattern and endlessly think about the pleasure of a woman. You have to understand that women in Ukraine enjoy that they feel your strength and your bestial desire. She enjoys the fact that she submits to your strong will of the male. For her this is a real pleasure.

4) avoid arrogance. Do not show contempt for her country and her people. Tell her that you are very fond of Ukrainians and Ukrainians and want the Ukraine to get out of a difficult situation. It is possible her father or elder brother fought in the east of Ukraine or serves in the army.

5) the consciousness of Ukrainians has changed after the Maidan and the war and be cautious in saying. You should not compare Ukraine with Zimbabwe. You can think about it but do not need to say it.

6) avoid rudeness and obvious humiliation. You need to let her feel that you are her great American friend. Give her the prospect of further relationships. She understands that this is a lie and you will not see her any more but her subconscious is calm. Yes, she works as a flower seller on the market for insignificant money 200 USD month for a Westerner, but she is also a human and not an animal. Dammit. You should not forget about it. You have to show her that she is an animal but only in bed. But not in everyday communication. A lot of guys from Turkey do not want to understand.

7) after the rest and nice chatter and coffee, you can suddenly grab it and put it back in the position doggy and fuck it. Just put it in a pose. Put on a condom and again hard fuck it without stopping. The main spontaneity and your desire. Your desire is the only one the law for her-remember this. You just decided to fuck her again and just fucked her. That's all. Discard all the American patterns and stereotypes about sex. Just be an animal.

8) during anal sex do not be immediately too rude. As a rule they then get used to and suffer some pain because they like very much money. But if she starts screaming and crying, stop it and calm her down.

9) do not attach too much importance to what you say. Just tell yourself-a beautiful winter day in Kharkov. The snow falls and next to me a young Ukrainian lady. Do not think too much about the end result. Do not think to knock out the enemy but just have fun from boxing. It's like boxing. Enjoy the moments and have fun. Enjoy the moments and have fun. The girl will feel it. If you feel warm and pleasant then she will feel the comfort and your warmth.

Coyle
12-15-17, 05:16
I think I was a bit tipsy and got angry with my failed attempt with some shop girls. This girl from gia. I welcomed to my apartment politely but thought to myself. Do what you want.

I saw her pretty dress. Sexy short skirt. I lifted it up. Her pink pussy said Hello. While I played porn. Had her head looked at the porn. Started sucking her pussy with my fingering. She moaned deeply and I said vulgar-porn star-like words. Then, I grabbed her head and started guiding her to my penis pleasure. I think that night, I was the wildest animal of all sex I had.

Then, she found my style. Which was completely new to me. But it was her perception of me - "bestial man". Yes, that woman is not the one listed on the ads. It's the woman you just created. Be a gentleman in the restaurant or bar, but when it comes to sex, you will craft your own grammar, language, laws, rules, principles, and style. Tomek is absolutely right. Get that inner "beast" out (American women say "inner child" - fuck them).

I took her next day to nice restaurant even for my US price range, treated her nicely, like a real woman, then, you can immediately feel that she feels respected. They put their arms in your arm when walking or stay very closely "attaching themselves" to you, who are the owner of their pleasure and comfort in life. Then, her body is yours. Condom? Protection? Anal? Money? Time? She dropped the whole thing. This is also the case where many Ukrainian single mom starts their miserable life as well. Because they entrust themselves to guy. Well, fucking professional without condom got me some pause, but actually they are cleaner and more cautious than some other normal girl. I fully enjoyed myself with this girl for 3 days. My initial pay was nothing when you think what I got from this girl. This is "satisfaction" by changing myself and see the world change toward you.


In general, you can draw certain conclusions. I personally do not have any solid categorical rules. Although of course the payment in the end has its own sense of a certain logic. I will not argue.

Just when the girl has not yet received the money, you can afford a little more in bed. It's Ukraine. You can slap her ass. Or take her hair. Or use some vulgar words. But in moderation of course. I for example after the first orgasm I force to caress tongue my nipples or testicles. Maybe the girl would like to not do this but just leave. But she thinks about money and does it all. To get her money. You should not be too rude or brutal like some western guys do. Who think that the Ukrainian girl is not a man but an animal. These guys think-these girls work for a month for 150 dollars. Why should I treat them with respect? They are just cheap females for sex and stupid white Africans..

Tomek123
12-28-17, 16:14
Ukrainian women want a strong man. We live too long in Western culture, where a man needs to be polite, compromising and even apologetic. In Western culture, on the first day, we were educated to ask the girl if I would like to kiss her or something like that.

You have to understand that women in Ukraine enjoy that they feel your strength and your bestial desire. She enjoys the fact that she submits to your strong will of the male, active strong Male. For her this is a real pleasure. She feels her feminine value at such moments. High female value.

These photos show real sex in the understanding of the East Slavic (Ukraine and Russia) not very yet feminized women.

Tomek123
04-12-19, 14:26
Kiev or Thailand? This is just a hunt for different kinds of sensations. In Ukraine you need more time. Skills and patience. But Kiev can give you an unforgettable feeling. This is just another kind of pleasure than in Thailand. . other sensations and other girls. It's just like fishing or hunting for lions. What's better is to catch sharks in the sea or shoot hyenas in Africa. These are just different kinds of entertainment. Fishing is fishing and hunting is hunting. It requires a little more effort and patience. Because it is still not a country of the Third World. This is some strange country. The mixture of Europe and Latin America. I will now try to explain my thought more clearly with the help of fantasy and literary talent. I certainly am not Francis Scott Fitzgerald and not Nabokov, but I hope you appreciate my literary experiences. Kiev's highest value is young semi-professionals or just girls who currently need money. For fashionable lingerie or shoes. Often they have a Ukrainian boyfriend who calls them when they give you a blowjob. Sometimes they can suck cock and talk with her boyfriend. There is some thrill about it. Of course, Bangkok and its Asian live meat market on the street can never give you such a thrill. You may be disappointed in Kiev, but you may experience incredible sensations in strength and sharpness. Very sharp orgasms and strong sexual arousal. A beautiful 19-20 year old student with white skin and green eyes and golden hair. Tomorrow this tender pussy will lick his tongue, and she will wriggle in convulsions and press Sergey's head stronger to his pussy. But it will be tomorrow. And today. Your rhythm gets mad. The curves of her tender back make you mad. Your chest ejects a cry. This is the cry of a wounded beast. There are stifrom the University of Taras Shevchenko, who plays with her tongue around your penis and makes you erupt a huge fountain of sperm almost to the very ceiling of your apartment. Who had talked nicely in your apartment with her mom and then with her boyfriend on the phone and told him that they would soon meet near the Golden Gate metro. Or for example tomorrow they go together to the cinema. And at this time your excited penis touches her elastic Ukrainian ass. And at that time she says something tender to her boyfriend and your penis stands like an iron stick. . she laughs and says-well my dear. Tomorrow evening we go to this film. Natasha told me that this is a super movie. , . You run your fingertips over her white skin. She shudders a little. Your cock rises and touches her ass. You feel incredible excitement. She laughs again and says something to her boyfriend. Her hand folds hair and she takes a close look at your excited penis. At this time, her hand gently massages your dick. And you can enjoy the smell of her golden hair. She looks at your excited penis and says, yes. Yes. I will call you in the evening. No. I do not like this cinema. Sergey, no. Please. There is such a loud sound. And there is a little uncomfortable. I don't really like it there, her voice becomes capricious like that of a child. . you glance at the bed. There are condoms on the little table near bed. . her boyfriend tells her some funny incident. She laughs like an actress and says goodbye to him. Her voice is gentle and soft.

After which you pounce on her like a hungry animal. You devour her body with your mouth. Devour her breasts and nipples. Powerfully take her hair with your hand. Soon in this room there will be groans and your hoarse breathing. She sucks your dick. Your hands hold her hair with power. She does it skillfully. Girls in Ukraine suck well sometimes in 15 years. You involuntarily utter some dirty lustful words. You press your scrotum to her mouth and feel her playful hot tongue playing with your testicles. Like electric impulses permeate your brain. You press her head even more. Her tongue continues its devilish work. You lift her head and you want to see her big green eyes. You look at those big eyelashes. A little childish lips. A clean young face. Innocent face. Your imagination draws you like this face and these eyelashes. And these children's little naughty lips. Everything is spattered with your thick heavy sperm. You feel a new wave of wild lust. Tomorrow this charming innocent creation, this charming lady in a short skirt and high heels will walk along the corridor of the university for another lecture of economics. She will sit in the audience and watch boring growth charts for the Chinese and world economy. Something to write in a notebook. In the evening she together with Sergey will go to the cinema for an American film about love. But now her graceful thin panties are lying on a chair. In your apartment in the center of Kiev. At this very time in the same apartment in a nearby street a hoarse male moan is heard and a powerful jet of sperm beats in a young saleswoman's mouth. She came from a small town to Kiev in search of a better life. A 51 year old Turkish lawyer from Istanbul paid for good oral sex and good CIM. This is his fetish. At home he has a grumpy wife and four children. In Turkey. A beautiful girl with a big booty runs into the bath to spit out his cum. The Turkish lawyer looks tenderly at her beautiful legs and big elastic ass. He is happy. This girl lives three together in a rented apartment with the same girls from a small town. You have beautiful friends, my dear, asks her lawyer from Istanbul. She looks a bit like his young daughter. Only her eyes are not Turkish. They are gray. And the skin is lighter. She came back from the bathroom where she spat out his cum. Kiev lives its mysterious life. Pisces and wealth. The vigil and innocence. Everything is near. You play with her hair. All this is like some kind of cocktail. The innocence suddenly turns into depravity and lust. . Everything is mixed up and everything is very ghostly. This strange Slavic city is the same as this strange country. Everything is ghostly. Everything is deceptive. Her tender fingers and tender lips skillfully put a condom on your iron dick. You enter her pink pussy like a beast. You feel like something hot and hot as the devil covers your penis. You enjoy looking into her big green eyes. It helps you with the movements of her body and pussy. Your breathing quickens. Do you remember how she five minutes ago, gracefully threw back her hair and laughed while talking on the phone. You are caught in a fire of lust. Make cruel blows. Then you put her in the pose of the dog. She quickly and obediently becomes in the pose of a submissive female. Like in animals. It is a popular position in the Slavic world. These Slavic women love power and masculine brutal force. They love to be submissive and to feel that they are in your power. You remember her ringing laughter. Her talking on the phone. Can you imagine how tomorrow she will climb the university steps. In a short skirt and high heels. How she will discuss something with her friends. Listen to lectures on economics and history of the Cold War.

Before your eyes her white as snow butt and beautiful back. And golden hair. You gently put your dick in her pink pussy. Tomorrow, instead of you, there will be her boyfriend named Sergey. His lips will gently kiss this pink pussy and these petals. But now. You are looking at your submissive prey. Then a pause. Then apply a powerful deep blow. Then a second blow. Then a third blow. Your dick enters this pussy with rage as a brutal Mongol horde breaks into the besieged city. Punch and punch again. And punch again. Your heart is ready to jump out of your chest. You start to growl like a tiger involuntarily. The kind of white beautiful submissive ass makes you wild. You put a strong deep blow. Then more and more. The feeling of absolute power makes you mad. You slap her hand on the pope. She moans. You do not notice your growl and the sound of slaps. The gentle spring light penetrates your room. A huge spring Kiev breathes through the window. Thousands of slender girls at this time are walking through the sunny streets about their business. One of them is now groaning under the blows of your heavy hammer. You slap her on the pope again. You look like your penis like a ram enters this tender submissive pink pussy. Tough and brutal. Tomorrow this pussy will be entered by its rightful owner, her boyfriend Sergey, from the Faculty of Economics of the University. They have been dating for half a year already. Ll a few blows left. Until the end. It seems to you that all this huge alien Ukrainian city hears your cry. And this humble moan. This is an orgasm. Your muscles continue to shrink. This is an altered consciousness. The most powerful and safe drug. Heat covers your whole body like after vodka. You are gradually returning to reality. On the floor is a torn condom wrapper. Your hand gently strokes her back. Rage gives way to tenderness. She meekly continues to stand in a pose. You jokingly and easily slapping her on the pope. She gently laughs. And something tells you. Your condom is heavy as an apple filled with juice. The fierce battle is over. You look at her beautiful back and snow-white ass. Just three minutes ago this submissive back and ass made you a wild monster. You look at an innocent tender pink pussy. Tender rose petals. Soon thin panties will cover this pussy. These few centimeters of female flesh. Pink hot moist flesh. That flower petals. And a thin hot slit. These few centimeters of flesh took away all your strength. They for some time deprived you of reason and control and made you a mad animal. They made you breathe loudly and growl like a predator.

What a diabolical power is hidden in this tiny piece of female flesh, you think. You are looking at this golden hair. Weak thin hands. A graceful back. On this pink devilish pussy. Tomorrow she will be kissed by Sergey. You are absolutely exhausted. You are empty. At this moment you understand what makes a lonely 46 years man from Canada or the United States or Norway buy a plane ticket and fly to this distant Slavic city. And then return there again and again. It's like a drug. It is the most powerful drug that does not destroy our body and psyche. A safe drug. She comes out of the shower and her gentle fingers wear panties. She sings a song in Slavic and straightens her hair. You admire the lines of her body. Soon she will meet with her friend Natasha and they will go to drink coffee in a cafe. They will have fun chatting and gossiping. Natasha broke up with her boyfriend and she has a slight depression. Natasha is a beautiful tall brunette, 22 years old. She has a slender neck and a slightly arrogant face. And loud blue eyes. How could I love this scoundrel for so long? Natasha says. Forget about him. It is not worth you-your golden-haired blonde tells her. Natasha looks sad at the view outside the cafe. Expensive cars pass like gondolas in the canals of Venice. Rich Ukrainians sit in them. Businessmen. Politicians. Businessmen's busters. This is a local high society. They go to expensive ones restaurants with their wives or mistresses. Soft spring evening. The blonde tells a funny story that happened to Polina. They laugh. Natasha met this guy for two years. So she is a little sad. Her breasts are beautiful. And in deep blue eyes she slumbers subtle debauchery. She knows how to make a man scream in bed. But she has never been with a foreigner. Her little neat pussy also harbors a diabolical power. And her naughty tongue and hot mouth could make growling from the pleasure of not one doctor from Canada or the USA and then pluck out the Canadian sperm fountain. He will repeatedly remember her pussy and tongue in his native Toronto. And the look of her submissive ass. Blonde Lena looks at Natasha and imagines how she stands in a dog pose and groans under your blows. Natasha is beautiful, she thinks.

Outside the window of an expensive jeep a middle-aged man comes out with some kind of woman. Perhaps this is his wife or mistress. Lena and Natasha greedily devour the eyes of her expensive clothes and expensive branded handbag. There is a light in their eyes. Natasha's chest heaves heavily. Something like a dream appears in her blue eyes. Now she looks like a little child who wants a toy. Lena looks at her beautiful face. Natasha is like a little capricious child. Forget about this Igor, says Lena again. Lena buys a portion of white ice cream and eats. Can also buy. Delicious? Give me one spoon-Natasha asks. Lena stretches a spoon to her pink hot tongue. A small portion of ice cream disappears into her beautiful mouth. This mouth forced Igor to growl from an orgasm in bed. But it was all over. And it means there are new adventures ahead. Maybe it will be a 43 year old military consultant from the United States. Far from Kiev in the east, the war continues. A great war has died away. But the fire has not yet gone out. The conflict is slowly smoldering. His red sweaty face will be twisted from rage and lust, and his loud breathing will be like a growl of a hungry beast that tears up an antelope. Yes. Baby. Give. More. . Yes. Aah. Aaahh. Putting all his masculine power and hunger into every stroke of the penis. His fat, not very beautiful American wife at this time will watch another series of culinary tv shows in her home on the east coast of the United States. She will laugh out loud while looking at this stupid tv show. At this time her husband will finish at a frantic pace. Then thin graceful fingers will tear off the next condom wrapper. Despite 43 years old her husband is very strong and strong. The former marine. He will wheeze in his apartment in the center of Kiev. What a beautiful country. It's good that they sent me to Ukraine and not Afghanistan, he will think, looking like her pink tongue flutters around the head of his penis. . but now her tight pussy is hidden by her panties and is sad. How are you with Sergey. Everything is fine, asks Natasha with a slight sadness in her voice. Everything is good. Tomorrow we go to the cinema. In the evening. - Lena answers. Lights are lit outside the window. The city blooms with a myriad of lights and colors. A gaggle of several girls passes by the cafe windows. They laugh loudly. Spring Kiev evening, in this cafe is always great coffee. Well. Let's go, says Natasha, yes. Let's go,- says Lena.

But you must understand that this beautiful girl will disappear just as easily from your life as she appeared. Ukraine is instability. Today she swallows your sperm and tomorrow she will marry at 21 and give birth to a child. Therefore you should attract people like you situations. You need to work on yourself and not be afraid to take risks. Any situation is a chance for you. For example, sweet talk with a beautiful saleswoman in a smartphone or clothing store. Anything. Ukraine gives its sharp pleasures to those who are not afraid. Those who can overcome fear. Such guys are good and easy in Ukraine. You have to learn how to buy beautiful girls in Ukraine. Everything should be clothed in the form of tender friendship and help. If she is a student-artist from the Academy of Arts you can admire her paintings and buy something. For her it will be an event. Will thank you in bed. You must be open. Sure. Light as a pen. Because she really wants money but not every Ukrainian young lady wants to feel like a prostitute. You need to convince her that she is not a prostitute. She really is not a prostitute. She was just born in the poorest country in Europe. And around so There are many shining boutiques and so many temptations. She's a woman. You have to understand her condition. This is a poor country. But you have to learn how to buy such non-professional girls and do it gracefully. Without hurting their psyche. This is not Asia. . that is not Thailand. You should not forget that it is white he European girl. And this is the main difficulty in Ukraine. Beautiful girls are often very poor but the internal barrier prevents them from taking off her panties and taking your dick in her mouth. This is a fierce internal struggle. Many western guys do not understand these psychological details and behave like in a brothel. And often this beautiful prey escapes and the hunter is left without prey. They do not understand that this is not Thailand.

On photo hot Ukrainian tight pussy.

Tomek123
04-14-19, 21:07
One guy writes to me that I advertise Ukraine with my texts. Probably he suspects that I am the owner of a network of underground brothels in Kiev or Odessa. He does not believe me. I am writing to him — on the contrary, I warn the guys against going to Ukraine. Well, because sex tourism can be different. Ukraine is a country for a completely different type of sex tourism. Yes, there was a brightest period of 2004 - 2006 when there was a novelty effect and every gray office clerk from Canada was for Ukrainian young ladies as a superman. But this period passed and remained only in our memories and he comes back to us sometimes from the past during our masturbation. There is such a guy in our Ukrainian community Steve69. You can not believe me but this is a real person. I believe in his reports. He is a master of flirting and is able to directly appeal to an unfamiliar girl, even on the street. He loves communication and does not avoid any opportunity for communication. Ukraine does not have a developed sex industry, so it is not for mass sex tourism. Also, it is not Colombia or Brazil, where you are perceived simply as a white gringo, which means you need to suck your dick. This is a special psychology of girls from Third World countries These are girls who, perhaps 100 years ago, were probably slaves. In Ukraine there was a highly developed Soviet society, modernized enough, with science and a good system of universal education. This is not a banana republic. Which means in Ukraine you are not a white gringo. Because in Ukraine everything is white. And Ukraine is not a country of the South. Where life is cheaper than in the countries of the North. There is no heating fee and you do not need expensive winter clothes like in Ukraine. Therefore, sex cannot cost too cheap. Because the costs of a Ukrainian girl for winter clothes, on food and on housing heating in winter is much higher than in warm countries. And prostitution is illegal. Why do girls from Gia cost 200-300 dollars per hour? Because prostitution is illegal. It means you have to constantly pay bribes to corrupt officials and police. Otherwise your business will be closed. Therefore, such a high price per hour with a girl from Gia. But there are beautiful and young girls. There is Polina, goddess blowjob and CIM. Therefore, not poor guys from the USA and Europe who are tired of the hot colored bodies of Colombia or the Philippines and want to see the submissive white-ass ass of a 20-year-old tall Ukrainian blonde student in a dog pose, these guys will not have problems even in Ukraine. Guys who earn a month for 12-15 000 dollars. For example, they want to take revenge on those white arrogant beautiful American girls who refused them and did not take off their panties. When these guys were still poor student losers. And these guys will carry out all their dirtiest lustful fantasies in Ukraine. But what do guys who do not earn $ 15,000 do? And for example $ 2,500. Therefore, Ukraine is a country for guys who know how to interact and penetrate into this society. And who have free time. Then she will give you her pleasures. This is what our friend Steve writes. He meets with a young student. Fucks her for $ 35. After what she tells her friend about it and this second girl comes to his apartment. That is what we see? He penetrates this society. Obviously she told all the other girls. She said that she was cute and not yet the old western guy fucked her and gave money. Other girls understood this and one of them also wanted some money. That is, this is not Thailand as you can see in this case. This is just contacts and the ability to establish connections and expand these connections. Then you can fuck even 5-6 familiar girls. Ukrainian mid-level businessmen often do this. Then some girls marry but other girls come. Often this is group sex. That is, this is actually your constant harem -Tania. Marina. Oksana. Polina, Kristina etc. If, besides, you are good as a male in sex and you have a good body, it will be an additional bonus for you. Or for example you make cunnilingus. Because girls tell other girls about you. At the same time you can create an alternative harem. The main thing is that you do not interfere brutally with the girls' personal lives and value their personal space. Because usually they have boyfriends. Girls in Ukraine often get married very early but this does not mean that they will be absolutely monogamous. In fact, these are your females. Like in the wild. Then those girls who got married can return to your harem again. For example, they are bored in bed with her husband or he earns little. But these are not professional prostitutes. This, too, sex tourism but not quite ordinary. That's what Ukraine is. This is just another specific and different type of sex tourism. These guys can not pay 300-400 dollars so they just turn into Ukrainians a little. That is, they become part of this society. They attend exhibitions. Presentations. Complete walks around the university where hundreds of beautiful girls and so on. They forced to compensate for the lack of big money with their communication and interpersonal skills. And naturally some of the girls agree to come to him and get a gift and have fun. And some say, I'm sorry, I have a husband. Or boyfriend. I can't. This is how the councils th artillery system covers Grad. Or large as the US carpet bombing during the war in Vietnam. You're just doing a lot of shots and of course in a poor country there are women who do not resist the temptation. If you do not have free time and desire to communicate Then you can just buy a ticket to Bangkok or call to UA agency Gia. If you can read Russian, you can use individual ads.

Hot chicks UA, photos.

Tomek123
04-19-19, 01:41
Interesting trend. More and more sex wifi porn in Russia where there are hot brutal Caucasian guys. Dagestan. Chechnya. Gruziya. To there are regions where a woman takes a subordinate position. What we see. What is this tendency. What is higher than the position of a woman in society and family. What is higher the level of female independence and contempt for a man. What is more in Ukraine or Russia obedient and subordinate men. Then brighter is this Caucasian inquiry and trend. But why? But because the male dominates in nature and not the female. The woman stands submissively in the pose of the dog and receives her portion of sperm. Because no matter how high a woman in the hierarchy rose. She dreams of finding someone who is stronger than she. She dreams of finding an alpha male. She dreams of such an orgasm. Look carefully at the video where the Turks are brutally fucking feminized Russian women from Moscow and or Kiev. These women scream during sex. They are like crazy. They subjugated their husbands. Like western women. And the nature is dominated by the male and not the female. These are the laws of nature. But the Turks. The Caucasus. Is the world of men. These men. They are others. And these females. They want to return to nature. They want to be brutally fucked by men from less matriarchal cultures. Less than feminized. What we see in these numerous videos. These females become insane. Their screams. Their moans. It's a bit dramatic. But we see the same thing in the USA. Only on the islands of the Caribbean. All these unruly feminized women from the offices. They take off their panties and take on huge brutal penises of mulattoes and blacks. Guys from a society where there is no feminism! .

https://xhamster.com/videos/turk-rusu-inleterek-sikiyor-7403338

https://xhamster.com/videos/turkish-man-fuck-russian-2-7356206#mlrelated.

https://xhamster.com/videos/jena-stonit-pod-drugom-4872546

And UA chicks.

Tomek123
07-12-19, 01:24
In this picture we see a real estate agent from Texas and Tatiana. She is 23 years old, she is married. Ukrainian girls get married very early because Ukraine cannot have a good career for women like in the West. Ukraine is the world of men. The main weapon of a Ukrainian or Russian woman is not her brain and education but her little pink pussy. She came to Dave in an apartment in the center of Kiev. Dave is a little afraid of women since he came from the center of world feminism. From the USA. He is a bit constrained. Tatyana understood this and took the initiative a bit. After a little flirtation and flirting, she suddenly dropped to her knees and began to skillfully work with her pink tongue and hot mouth. . But the phone rings unexpectedly. This is Oleg. Husband Tatiana. She forgot to turn off the sound. But everything will be fine and after a while the unfortunate Ukrainian neighbors will hear the sounds of slaps on the ass, Tatiana's moans and the hoarse fierce cry of a Texas cowboy. Dave wants to stretch this pleasure and extend it as long as possible. But this devilish hot pussy. His huge American body turns red and convulses. Dave quickly loses control and a powerful tight jet of sperm hits a condom. His buttocks continue to shrink in convulsions. He moans loudly like a wounded predatory beast. This is a Ukrainian-American orgasm. How good it is to be a citizen of the USA. Dave thinks looking at the beautiful ass and pink pussy under him. He easily slaps the girl with his hand on the ass.

In another picture we see the second visit of Dave and Steve. Three girls Olga and Natasha and Lena work well with their mouths and tongues.

Walky23
07-24-19, 02:13
Nice report Tomek. Its always a pleasure to read your reports. I agree that its far better experience to find girls via the route of Steve69? Its a shame I don't have the skill to initiate conversation with a good looking Ukrainian girl on the street and make a sex buddy.


One guy writes to me that I advertise Ukraine with my texts. Probably he suspects that I am the owner of a network of underground brothels in Kiev or Odessa. He does not believe me. I am writing to him on the contrary, I warn the guys against going to Ukraine. Well, because sex tourism can be different. Ukraine is a country for a completely different type of sex tourism. Yes, there was a brightest period of 2004 - 2006 when there was a novelty effect and every gray office clerk from Canada was for Ukrainian young ladies as a superman. But this period passed and remained only in our memories and he comes back to us sometimes from the past during our masturbation. There is such a guy in our Ukrainian community Steve69. You can not believe me but this is a real person. I believe in his reports. He is a master of flirting and is able to directly appeal to an unfamiliar girl, even on the street. He loves communication and does not avoid any opportunity for communication. Ukraine does not have a developed sex industry, so it is not for mass sex tourism. Also, it is not Colombia or Brazil, where you are perceived simply as a white gringo, which means you need to suck your dick. This is a special psychology of girls from Third World countries These are girls who, perhaps 100 years ago, were probably slaves. In Ukraine there was a highly developed Soviet society, modernized enough, with science and a good system of universal education. ..

Junior11
08-19-19, 10:31
I am familiar with the culture (I grew up in the USSR). But I don't understand how you guys talk about payment with a regular girl without offending her. I understand that they all need money, but I have no idea how to propose that. I am sure that if the girls knows that besides nice dinner she is surely getting X dollars, she would agree. Next question, how to determine X?!

Thanks!


Therefore, Ukraine is a country for guys who know how to interact and penetrate into this society. And who have free time. Then she will give you her pleasures. This is what our friend Steve writes. He meets with a young student. Fucks her for $ 35. After what she tells her friend about it and this second girl comes to his apartment. That is what we see? He penetrates this society. Obviously she told all the other girls. She said that she was cute and not yet the old western guy fucked her and gave money. Other girls understood this and one of them also wanted some money.

Riina
08-19-19, 18:46
I am familiar with the culture (I grew up in the USSR). But I don't understand how you guys talk about payment with a regular girl without offending her. I understand that they all need money, but I have no idea how to propose that. I am sure that if the girls knows that besides nice dinner she is surely getting X dollars, she would agree. Next question, how to determine X?!

Thanks!Just ask her if she would like to spend the day together and have fun. If you hook up, ask if she needs any help.

Questner
08-20-19, 03:12
I am familiar with the culture (I grew up in the USSR). But I don't understand how you guys talk about payment with a regular girl without offending her. I understand that they all need money, but I have no idea how to propose that. I am sure that if the girls knows that besides nice dinner she is surely getting X dollars, she would agree. Next question, how to determine X?!

Thanks!Then you should know that by offering her everything you've got won't offend her.

Junior11
08-20-19, 04:40
Then you should know that by offering her everything you've got won't offend her.LOL. Fair point.

Henri Dufresne
10-16-19, 09:00
I wonder if it is possible to find Ukrainian women and use them as escort thanks to camgirl websites. I have found this article on a website https://xchatz.com/video-dating-sites-to-date-ukrainian-women/ mentioning that it was possible to give your email address to an Ukrainian woman during a private webcam chat session.

I think it can be interesting because what you can see on webcam is what you can get in the real world. There aren't any problems with fake pictures or scams on profile just like on mamba. When you chat with a cam model what you see is what you get on the screen. Also, by chatting with the girl upfront, you know if she is positive about sex and if she would be willing to do anything. I think this pre-screening is interesting because from what I saw in Ukraine, there are huge gaps between behaviour of Ukrainian women. Some are psycho-rigid and cold. They don't want to hear anything when you talk about sex. Other women are really open minded and they are willing to please you. Those ones are ready to go on their knees, suck you because you have been nice to them.

This would give the opportunity to find amateur girls and girls next door as well.

You can access to many beautiful Ukrainian women instantly from the comfort of your living room.

Now let's talk about the possible issues related to this technique:

First of all, money. Even if the Ukrainian camgirls are cheapest online. All those websites don't do it for free and you must pay for a webcam chat session. If the chat is $2/ minutes it is $60 for a 30-minute conversation.

From what I have read, Ukrainian webcam models come from all over Ukraine from the west (Lviv) to east (donetsk). So it is the first problem with this technique. If you look for women online you may find yourself with contacts coming from different locations in Ukraine. You would be forced to travel a lot in the country. For example, if you meet a woman from Odessa and another one from Lviv good luck to you. Those two cities are far away from each other.

Also, there is the language barrier that is quite high. Apart from Kiev, many women don't speak English. But I guess that with the translation devices and applications, it is not a problem anymore.

What is your opinion about using camgirl sites to find escort girls? Maybe you have ideas.

Riina
10-16-19, 15:51
What is your opinion about using camgirl sites to find escort girls? Maybe you have ideas.Sounds like a great idea, but there's a difference between cam and hooking. Most girls don't want to out themselves as prostitutes. If you find one, I recommend travel directly to their village. The local guys are always eager to help a sex tourist.

Rog123
10-17-19, 17:21
I wonder if it is possible to find Ukrainian women and use them as escort thanks to camgirl websites. I have found this article on a website https://xchatz.com/video-dating-sites-to-date-ukrainian-women/ mentioning that it was possible to give your email address to an Ukrainian woman during a private webcam chat session.

I think it can be interesting because what you can see on webcam is what you can get in the real world. There aren't any problems with fake pictures or scams on profile just like on mamba. When you chat with a cam model what you see is what you get on the screen. Also, by chatting with the girl upfront, you know if she is positive about sex and if she would be willing to do anything. I think this pre-screening is interesting because from what I saw in Ukraine, there are huge gaps between behaviour of Ukrainian women. Some are psycho-rigid and cold..I have posted about this before as well. I have tried, but not too hard, to meet cam girls in Ukraine hoping it might turn into a real meet up. Actually went backwards on my last trip to Kiev met a girl on Mamba that does cam work on Chaturbate. There are some problems with this strategy:

The super hot models who have popular cams are making enough money where they don't need to escort. I normally look way down in the rankings page 6-7 to find some hot girls and they are cute enough but don't know how to excel at cam work. I have made friendships with a few girls like this but nothing ever came from it.

Every cam girl has douchebags in their room every day offering to fly them out to fuck with a first class ticket. These guys are always "greys" who have no tokens and don't tip. You pretty much have to spend some money on them to establish yourself as a generous guy and to build trust. Cam sites take about 60% and the girls make 40% so you are probably going to have to spend a couple hundred to get in good with these girls. Nothing beyond that is likely but I'm sure it's possible. For the money you will spend trying this you can probably walk up to 10 hot girls in Kiev and offer 4-500 for a date and probably one will accept.

I was trying to work the cam girl angle with this young mother who lives in a small village. Spent a couple hundred in her room over a few weeks and we started talking on WhatsApp. But she started to become too demanding for $ so I blocked her. This girl is cute but horrible at cam. I think she is happy to make $15 in a day. I actually popped into her room yesterday and she was on for 5 hours and made less than 20 tokens she just stands still and stares at computer when no one is tipping. Had another girl from Estonia who I hit it off with but I told her I would be in EE and she never pushed the issue to meet. Was generous with this girl also.

In summary I'm sure you can get lucky but it seems like a huge waste of time and money!

Henri Dufresne
10-18-19, 18:29
I have posted about this before as well. I have tried, but not too hard, to meet cam girls in Ukraine hoping it might turn into a real meet up. Actually went backwards on my last trip to Kiev met a girl on Mamba that does cam work on Chaturbate. There are some problems with this strategy:

The super hot models who have popular cams are making enough money where they don't need to escort. I normally look way down in the rankings page 6-7 to find some hot girls and they are cute enough but don't know how to excel at cam work. I have made friendships with a few girls like this but nothing ever came from it.

Every cam girl has douchebags in their room every day offering to fly them out to fuck with a first class ticket. These guys are always "greys" who have no tokens and don't tip. You pretty much have to spend some money on them to establish yourself as a generous guy and to build trust. Cam sites take about 60% and the girls make 40% so you are probably going to have to spend a couple hundred to get in good with these girls. Nothing beyond that is likely but I'm sure it's possible. For the money you will spend trying this you can probably walk up to 10 hot girls in Kiev and offer 4-500 for a date and probably one will accept.I have more practice of Romanian camgirls. And to my surprise many camgirls in Romania also work as an escort. Sometimes they wold vanish during several months from the cam site because they were in Dubai or Barcelona working as a pro. You can find evidence of it, when you browse the pics of a girl and when you see she was in Dubai on her own. Dubaï on her own = pro.

PhotoSlider
10-19-19, 02:40
...In summary I'm sure you can get lucky but it seems like a huge waste of time and money!I am no expert on cam girls, never tried them, but had good degree of success with masseuses. They also do not think of themselves as prostitutes, and few things help them to get out of the boring daily routine:

1. Outcall. Trip to customer's apartment.

2. Pocketing 100% of the fee.

3. Real action.

Not all girls want the above, especially the last one, but some do for sure. And after maybe 10-15 visits to Kiev massage places over 10 years, 2 massage girls have been converted to my long-term GFs. As opposed to strippers where I managed to get only one, and eventually gave up altogether.

As of lately I am not a standard happy ending customer. I surely enjoy a massage delivered by a naked lovely young lady. Seducing her up to DATY and then DFK is a good challenge. At the same time there's a controversy, as a good massage where I can kiss and touch the body is about 1500-2000. FS can be easily arranged for that much money. But sometimes all I need is just a massage, and menu may even have such an item for 700 UAH. Except girls look at me surprised, not knowing what to expect. Am I cheap, or don't have money, or what's the problem? Brave one said about a month ago: "Come on! Pay 1500 and you'll leave happy". So I do, but 9 out of 10 do not let them to jerk me off anyway, because I expect to fuck someone later on for real, and I am not that young anymore to recover quickly.

The result is interesting. Most of the girls are surprised, some refuse to let go without completion, some think I can't get it up anymore, or am some sort of pervert. The best ones give me their phone number and want to meet in private. The good ones I usually extend for another hour, and that gives more than enough time to learn their personality, and establish a good rapport.

Again, I never had cam girls, but seems massage is more efficient. The only restriction is the duration of stay in Kiev. The longer you stay, the higher the chances. And even that can be lifted. One of the above 2 massage girls I met 4 years ago on my last day before departure. I then made the official outcall reservation for her to come out to my apartment and all of a sudden, without any expectation on my part, she went all the way through for a full service, without even discussing the payment. I tipped her well, and we ordered two taxis, she went home, and I left for the airport. We still are close friends, after more than 4 years. She is an exceptional lady.

All the good massage places I knew in Kiev are either closed or went down in quality. I had 3 girls all good from the most recent one, and as of 3 weeks ago the place got shut down. Probably not profitable enough.

Henri Dufresne
10-21-19, 02:55
I am no expert on cam girls, never tried them, but had good degree of success with masseuses. They also do not think of themselves as prostitutes, and few things help them to get out of the boring daily routine:No offense, but as you said at the end of your message, it is now more difficult to find a masseuse than ever before in Ukraine. That's why I mentioned the camgirl option. I find that mamba is not reliable at all. Many profiles aren't active. Women are fake or weird.

What you say is interesting "theoretically speaking" and I see what you mean. Ukrainian women have a strong ego and don't want to be seen as prostitute. Ukrainian women are psycho rigid compared to Russian and Romanian women when we talk about sex against money. However, compared to the early 2000, nothing changed in Ukraine. Ukrainian women always need money. The legal framework around prostitution in Ukraine remains the same.

Being called a masseuse for a woman is better than being called a prostitute, even is she does exactly the same work than a prostitute. It would be a good trick to tell an Ukrainian woman that you have back problems and want a massage to progressively bring her to sex. However, this may be a big waste of time because at the end she may strongly refuse to have sex even if you paid her for a massage.

I have the feeling that the new generation of Ukrainian women are often very snobbish. They make you believe they don't need money. However, It is a big lie. You can see that they still need money to survive.

I think that with Ukrainian women, it is useless to use detours. I think that only the straightforward way work with women. Today, the massage option, the girlfriend option is a detour.

I think the best would be to put everything on the table right upfront saying to a woman: look you don't have money, you are in a poor situation, let's make an arrangement, Let's spend time together and have fun. No one will know and you will get money. I am sure there is a way to transmit this idea to the woman and make her feel comfortable about it.

Tomek123
10-29-19, 05:18
Success or failure in Ukraine. Let's talk a bit about hidden reasons. Let's start from the beginning. We must understand that reality in Ukraine or Russia is significantly different from Western reality. Rich western countries. And because of this there was feminism. Feminism can arise only where society has accumulated sufficiently large material wealth and a woman can choose. And a very large number of those who can be called the middle class. And well-off men. What does this lead to. What are the consequences? There are a lot of well-fed men with money, there is also a powerful middle class, and the value of a beautiful woman in such a society is increasing. For a beautiful woman there is a tough struggle and competition between men. We see this in the USA and everywhere. A beautiful woman in your bed is an indicator of your success. So you are a successful person. But the value of the family falls. A woman in such countries does not depend on a man as much as a Russian and Ukrainian woman. And the laws in Western countries are anti-male. This is a real marriage robbery. Feminists intimidated Western men and very seriously deformed them consciousness. Besides, feminists forced society to adopt a host of absolutely anti-male laws. For example, this constant idiotic fight against sexual harassment. It came to the point of absurdity. For example, this is the persecution of film producer Harvey Weinstein. And much more. All this in a complex led to the fact that eastern women often do not perceive western men as males. Like men. They perceive them as some kind of weak nerds with glasses and with a credit card in their wallet. Just as a source of money. And this is the drama. I know what I'm writing about. I often saw how these guys communicate with Ukrainian women. They begin to lick their legs. Fit under a woman's heel. They are too soft. Too helpful. Excessively polite. Because it's hard for them to be different in the west where they run the risk of being charged with sexual harassment from some crazy *****. The behavior patterns of these guys are such that the girls quickly sit on their heads.

These guys do not understand that they came to another country where a slightly different reality. And a different culture. In this culture there is no equality of women and men in the West. It cannot be because the Ukrainian economy does not allow a woman to make good money. Without a man, she is often helpless. Her salvation is a man. And a Western woman can live well without a man at all. Therefore, the behavior of a Western woman will be different from the behavior of a Ukrainian woman. An American woman herself can offer to pay half the bill to a restaurant. Ewen in Poland is often. No this does not mean that it will necessarily suck your dick. Ukraine and Russia is the world of men. Men rule there. This is an absolutely sexist society. Slavic women are often disappointed with the insecurity and shyness of Western men. It's incomprehensible. In their understanding, a man should be persistent in achieving the goal and not be afraid. He should be confident and courageous. Their Slavic female subconscious mind perceives just such a man like a male. These women do not understand that Western men have the same rights and incomes as women in their country and that it is difficult for them psychologically to be the same as Ukrainian women are used to. These Western men grew up surrounded by arrogant Western women with very high self-esteem. Besides many artificial absurd barriers and fears and prohibitions. And this constant fear of being accused of sexual harassment. This is the influence of liberals and leftists who, under the pressure of feminists, restrict the freedom and sexual initiative of a Western man. What this leads to. Many western men are becoming like distilled water. Lately it has been happening even in Poland which in 1989 became part of the western world. But there is another extreme. A western man, having fallen into Ukraine or Russia, becomes like a mad dog during the mating season. Something similar also happens with many Turkish guys who came to Ukraine from a conservative Muslim society with its conventions and prohibitions. These western guys start behaving like sexy maniacs. They start rushing at all the girls. Running after each short skirt. They seem to wake up some kind of demon of lust and madness. They become simply uncontrollable. They are like guys who escaped from prison. Some girls admitted to me in this. That is, often we see two types of behavior — insecurity. Fear. Excessive politeness and gentleness. Or vice versa. Unbridled sexual aggression and even sometimes rudeness. You should not humiliate yourself before a Ukrainian or Russian woman. If you begin to humiliate yourself, then she does not perceive you as a male. In that case, for her you are just a Western credit card and she despises you. This culture is different.

PhotoSlider
10-29-19, 17:38
No offense, but as you said at the end of your message, it is now more difficult to find a masseuse than ever before in Ukraine. That's why I mentioned the camgirl option. I find that mamba is not reliable at all. Many profiles aren't active. Women are fake or weird.More difficult doesn't mean impossible. To be fair converting hourly girls into more reliable "rental" girlfriends is substantially easier.

Cam girls are next to impossible to fuck, customer is basically reduced to jerking off. Masseuses are the same, except jerking off is called happy ending, and since I can find in Kiev receptacles of my sperm than naked young ladies hands, I do not let them perform happy ending on me. I was told by ex-masseuse that I know for 5 years now, that experienced girls do not like this sort of customers. She made this characteristic shaking movement at the wrist, and said it is the best to make the customer ejaculate, and relax herself instead of working for the whole duration.

I target younger girls, new in business. For them the fact that I do not need happy ending engages their interest and curiosity. The rest is art. Some shutdown and block, some progress to DATY and DFK on site, some exchange contacts and meet later on off site.


What you say is interesting "theoretically speaking" and I see what you mean. Ukrainian women have a strong ego and don't want to be seen as prostitute. Ukrainian women are psycho rigid compared to Russian and Romanian women when we talk about sex against money. However, compared to the early 2000, nothing changed in Ukraine. Ukrainian women always need money. The legal framework around prostitution in Ukraine remains the same.Except this "theoretically speaking" works quite well for me in practice)).

I have time, because I stay in Kiev for weeks. I diversify and invest into multiple leads, - potential "rental" girlfriends. Some result in the desired outcome, some don't. I make an initial investment taking care of the girl needs, such as her cell phone payments, healthy food, entertainment, basic shopping. I do it without requesting an immediate fuck.

I value young female company more than fucking hourly girls. At the same time I need sex when I wake up, and when I go to bed. If "rental" GF is evasive, I fire her ass, and employ hourly girls.

I had 2 cases symbolizing that my theory works.

1. Two hours before departure of my date on the train, I asked her:

- Would you like do go to my apartment? It will not change anything if you don't.

The answer was a shy "Yes, I do. I want to"..[/QUOTE]They didn't with me. It was as simple as request for modest money transfer to travel to me, or asking:

- Would you help me with expenses?

And I do, as long as it's reasonable on my scale.

One may call Ukrainian girls snobbish, which is negative thinking. They will respond accordingly rejecting.

Or one may call them having good pride and confidence respecting maybe not all but some of them, which is positive. Some may try taking advantage, some will behave with dignity. I am interested in the latter category.


However, It is a big lie. You can see that they still need money to survive.

I think that with Ukrainian women, it is useless to use detours. I think that only the straightforward way work with women. Today, the massage option, the girlfriend option is a detour.I am not saying my approach is for everybody. To each his own. IMHO mongering in Kiev is great because there are so many service offerings.


I think the best would be to put everything on the table right upfront saying to a woman: look you don't have money, you are in a poor situation, let's make an arrangement, Let's spend time together and have fun. No one will know and you will get money. I am sure there is a way to transmit this idea to the woman and make her feel comfortable about it.That is precisely what I do with hourly girls. Negotiation is done with dispatcher via Viber / WhatsApp, girl arrives for sex, and I either extend, or am happy with just 1 hour, or kick her out and complain to delivery entity, or get her number and meet with her cutting out the middleman, paying her directly, resulting either in a better service or less money out of my pocket.

I mentioned this masseuse as an unique example of what happened to me. Kiev doesn't have drive through sex services with guaranteed quality. That's why I keep grooming.

We obviously have different view on the subject, and my intention is far from changing yours.

WiseHustler
10-29-19, 18:49
Success or failure in Ukraine. Let's talk a bit about hidden reasons. Let's start from the beginning. We must understand that reality in Ukraine or Russia is significantly different from Western reality. Rich western countries. And because of this there was feminism. Feminism can arise only where society has accumulated sufficiently large material wealth and a woman can choose. And a very large number of those who can be called the middle class. And well-off men. What does this lead to. What are the consequences? There are a lot of well-fed men with money, there is also a powerful middle class, and the value of a beautiful woman in such a society is increasing. For a beautiful woman there is a tough struggle and competition between men. We see this in the USA and everywhere. A beautiful woman in your bed is an indicator of your success. So you are a successful person. But the value of the family falls. A woman in such countries does not depend on a man as much as a Russian and Ukrainian woman. And the laws in Western countries are anti-male. This is a real marriage robbery. Feminists intimidated Western men and very seriously deformed them consciousness. Besides, feminists forced society to adopt a host of absolutely anti-male laws. For example, this constant idiotic fight against sexual harassment. It came to the point of absurdity. For example, this is the persecution of film producer Harvey Weinstein. And much more. All this in a complex led to the fact that eastern women often do not perceive western men as males. Like men. They perceive them as some kind of weak nerds with glasses and with a credit card in their wallet. Just as a source of money. And this is the drama. I know what I'm writing about. I often saw how these guys communicate with Ukrainian women. They begin to lick their legs. Fit under a woman's heel. They are too soft. Too helpful. Excessively polite. Because it's hard for them to be different in the west where they run the risk of being charged with sexual harassment from some crazy *****. The behavior patterns of these guys are such that the girls quickly sit on their heads..This is the most Red pilled post ever on ISG. Almost felt like being on Reddit! The scenario was spot on but would have loved to hear on the Pick-Up game if any in Ukraine (being the forum)!

AttilaTheHun
06-28-20, 21:22
Interesting trend. More and more sex wifi porn in Russia where there are hot brutal Caucasian guys. Dagestan. Chechnya. Gruziya. To there are regions where a woman takes a subordinate position. What we see. What is this tendency. What is higher than the position of a woman in society and family. What is higher the level of female independence and contempt for a man. What is more in Ukraine or Russia obedient and subordinate men. Then brighter is this Caucasian inquiry and trend. But why? But because the male dominates in nature and not the female. The woman stands submissively in the pose of the dog and receives her portion of sperm. Because no matter how high a woman in the hierarchy rose. She dreams of finding someone who is stronger than she. She dreams of finding an alpha male. She dreams of such an orgasm. Look carefully at the video where the Turks are brutally fucking feminized Russian women from Moscow and or Kiev. These women scream during sex. They are like crazy. They subjugated their husbands. Like western women. And the nature is dominated by the male and not the female. These are the laws of nature. But the Turks. The Caucasus. Is the world of men. These men. They are others. And these females. They want to return to nature. They want to be brutally fucked by men from less matriarchal cultures. Less than feminized. What we see in these numerous videos. These females become insane. Their screams. Their moans. It's a bit dramatic. But we see the same thing in the USA. Only on the islands of the Caribbean. All these unruly feminized women from the offices. They take off their panties and take on huge brutal penises of mulattoes and blacks. Guys from a society where there is no feminism! .

https://xhamster.com/videos/turk-rusu-inleterek-sikiyor-7403338

https://xhamster.com/videos/jena-stonit-pod-drugom-4872546

And UA chicks.You are an expert of female nature, This is fine MGTOW stuff. Keep them coming!

Incrociatore
09-03-20, 02:27
Success or failure in Ukraine. Let's talk a bit about hidden reasons. Let's start from the beginning. We must understand that reality in Ukraine or Russia is significantly different from Western reality. Rich western countries. And because of this there was feminism. Feminism can arise only where society has accumulated sufficiently large material wealth and a woman can choose. And a very large number of those who can be called the middle class. And well-off men. What does this lead to. What are the consequences? There are a lot of well-fed men with money, there is also a powerful middle class, and the value of a beautiful woman in such a society is increasing. For a beautiful woman there is a tough struggle and competition between men. We see this in the USA and everywhere. A beautiful woman in your bed is an indicator of your success. So you are a successful person. But the value of the family falls. A woman in such countries does not depend on a man as much as a Russian and Ukrainian woman. And the laws in Western countries are anti-male. This is a real marriage robbery. Feminists intimidated Western men and very seriously deformed them consciousness. Besides, feminists forced society to adopt a host of absolutely anti-male laws. For example, this constant idiotic fight against sexual harassment. It came to the point of absurdity. For example, this is the persecution of film producer Harvey Weinstein. And much more. All this in a complex led to the fact that eastern women often do not perceive western men as males. Like men. They perceive them as some kind of weak nerds with glasses and with a credit card in their wallet. Just as a source of money. And this is the drama. I know what I'm writing about. I often saw how these guys communicate with Ukrainian women. They begin to lick their legs. Fit under a woman's heel. They are too soft. Too helpful. Excessively polite..This is gold. No, it's platinum.

I have seen these Turkish guys. And I have experienced myself every word you say. For example, this Ukrainian girl got pissed off because I wasn't available on a Saturday since I had another date (which I didn't tell, but she is not stupid). We didn't speak for a while, and when I told her I was in Dnipro she agreed immediately to see me (for the first time), even if we didn't text for months. Then, even if she was pissed off, she agreed to see me the same day, just after work. But then she refused when I tried to kiss her, and I cut her off, because in Western countries if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, usually. But then she reached for me again, another time I was there, she asked me to get a drink together, but once again she refused my kiss. And so I told her to fuck off. And after a while she wrote me again, and she still reach for me from time to time. She wants me to chase her, she wants me to pursuit her, because that's the way Russian / Ukrainian women are used to, and she is pissed off because I do not do that. They say no, and they want you to be persistent. It's not really no, it's more like, not now, persist. They test you all the time. One of my Ukrainian colleagues explained me this. They want you to go all in for them, they want full attention. When I read this, I really recognized my mistakes. The culture is so different. I personally don't like it, but I don't like feminism either.