View Full Version : Stupid Shit in Kyiv
Pages :
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
[
13]
14
15
16
17
18
The Chinese can capture even more land in that area, using Putlers words: Becausue historically Chinese.Mur.
By the same logic Putin used when he schooled Tucker Carlson on Russian history, the whole Amur Oblast and Primorsky Krai including Sakhalin belong to China, not Russia. History is a biatch.
Tucker Carlson interview: Fact-checking Putin's 'nonsense' history
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68255302
So you don't have any proof of any fulfilled prophecies. Or if you do, then post them here.I already said I have only been active on this part of the forum for a few months. I have been closely following the war since Feb 2022. I have discussed this with friends and folks on other forums. Sorry, you don't have to believe me. But you can make a note of my current predictions, and we will see a year or 2 from now if I was right or wrong.
When you say "they," I assume you are talking about the Ukrainian army. Yeah no shit.
Link us to the sources where Ukrainian officials have revealed their objectives, and where the same have desperately changed their story. Even if available it could be a ruse.Are you fucking serious? I'm just going by what Zelensky and his team have been saying on the mainstream media. They have listed various objectives but didn't list the REAL OBJECTIVE because they failed to achieve it (capturing the KNPP). The objectives shared by the Kiev regime have been as I have already listed previously. If you have been following the news, you won't doubt me.
According to some sources the Ukrainians have blown up two bridges in the Kursk region, heavily damaged an airport and fuel depot, while there's some video evidence. These aren't official sources. They have indeed blown up bridges and bragged about it. They have also taken soldiers and civilians as captives. I'm guessing they will use the innocent civilians as hostages and the west will condone it.
Tell us more about the "slowly collapsing positions in Donetsk and Bandera," with links to your source material.Do you not follow the news? Go to the BBC or some other pathetic mainstream media website and you will see for yourself. The real battle is on going in Donetsk. Check what is going on in Pokrovks and Toretsk and get back to me. You will see what happens once these 2 towns fall.
Yours is an easy game to play. You come pontificating day after day while making predictions, but I've never seen any links, no source materials. There's no evidence of any fulfilled predictions while the outcome of the war, and perhaps the fate of Putin is yet to be determined. Where are you getting your information? All we see so far is an apparent fellow traveler for fun with a lot of unsubstantiated claims and predictions. Source citations are academics 101. Show us where you are getting your information. If you refuse, then it's fair to assume that you are embarrassed by it.I get my information from various sources. The western mainstream media is all propaganda and lies and has been weaponized. You can get a better understanding from X, youtube and other independent news outlets and reporters. I suggest you check them.
RUSSIA says the power plant was the Ukrainian objective, thus it's clear where Blood Red is getting his information. Afterall, he asserts that Alexi Navalny died of natural causes. Tiny has yet to tell us what he thinks about that, but completely dodged the question. But then we get this strident, exaggerated language, "constantly changing the reason" for the incursion, though a buffer zone, a move to draw troops away from Donetsk, plus gather prisoners are none mutually exclusive. Of course he believes and predicts it will all amount to failure, though some sources report substantial prisoner hauls and there's photos, while reportedly a third bridge near Kursk was just destroyed.
But Moscow has a very long history of getting the real story out to the world, so we should just believe them, right? Wink Guys skip the middle men. You don't need BR and Tiny. It's all in Google. Just comes here for the predictions, as the propaganda sources often don't include these.
P.S. I still want to see your links. You've never posted a single one best I've seen.Anyone with any common sense would tell you that the only place or significance in Kursk is the KNPP. Ukraine could have used that as a bargaining chip to get the ZNPP controlled by Russia back.
The Bandera incursion into Kursk has failed and it will achieve nothing. On the contrary, it is already having a negative impact on Donetsk as the Russians are advancing faster now than before. Zelensky's terrorist PR stunt has failed.
"Banderite" is a derogatory word used by Putin propaganda machine to describe everyone in Ukraine who resists Russia's aggression. Of course, Bandera himself was assassinated by the KGB over 60 years ago, so I find it puzzling that an American engineer (that's who you're claiming to be, right?) even knows this word, let alone uses it in the same vein it's used by Russia -- to blacken the whole nation of Ukraine exclusively for Russia's domestic propaganda consumers.What are your thoughts on Stepan Bandera?
What are your thoughts on Stepan Bandera?'Answering' a question with a question is an old, venerable trick, and I'll be happy to share my 2 cents. First, however, I'd like to understand why you're so compelled to call the contemporary nation of Ukraine Banderites. It seems like an odd choice for an American like yourself (right? Given that the man himself was murdered over 60 years ago. What is the non-propagandist value of painting the entire people of Ukraine as supporters of a man who died such a long time ago?
John Clayton
08-22-24, 21:31
A...The Bandera incursion into Kursk has failed and it will achieve nothing...I suggest you try to envision Russian defeat.
There's plenty of content from my last several posts to you to reply to here, where everything is on topic, that you completely skipped over. Though we already have your mindset memorized by heart by now, give the posts a go, point by point. One is obvious parody. Or, continue to leave them alone, or cherry pick and attack your caricatures, shift to whataboutisms / false equivocations and "deep state" conspiracy theories, or type out another essay of Kremlin propaganda. I trust most here will notice when you fail to take on the content. If not then it doesn't matter, as the war isn't going to be settled in this monger microcosm.
P.S. Do you really think it scores you some credibility when you claim you aren't voting for Trump? LOL I suppose anything that helps you avoid defending the many dumb statements you've made is helpful.
But lacked the intestinal fortitude to reply to my last several posts on the "Stupid Shit in Kyiv" thread where everything is on topic, where your highly repetitive "deep state" conspiracy theories, various false equivocations / whataboutisms related to past US wars and Kremlin propaganda have received rebuttals from me and others ad nauseum. The one where you said that Russia isn't trying to kill civilians, where you brown nose a guy who asserts that Alexi Navalny died of natural causes, where you express confidence that Putin would honor a peace accord, etc. Putin is a war criminal, coward at heart with zero honor, that's sore about the lose of the Soviet Empire. He started a war. Ukraine wants to fight back, and NATO has responded, Occam's Razor. You're welcome to go back to the Ukraine forum and respond to the many posts I made to you earlier this month that you skipped over. Do it point by point. That might help you make another go at swearing off this thread. You might even succeed this time, or at least divert your addiction. You never know.
So other than the post to me, how many more have followed since swearing off this thread? I counted four, some pretty lengthy. Sounds like you're really struggling, and you have my sympathy. Wink.
P.S.
Ike isn't my fav president, but I do think his economic achievements cut against the idea of Tooms, that Repubs always bring economic disasters, going back to Lincoln. That's the context, thus a little honesty occasionally will go a long way if you're interested in at least some pretense of credibility.Well buckaroo, I'm just confused. You said people like me who haven't been to Ukraine can't post in this thread. Xpartan said I can. But he said if I want to post something about Israel or the USA to compare to Russia, I have to do it in the Israel or American Politics threads. So that's what I did. You gentlemen need to put your heads together and decide what you want.
With one exception, I can't think of anything significant about Ukraine you've written recently that I haven't addressed recently, by replying to you or more often to Xpartan and others. But true, I haven't really replied to your posts about my honesty, sanity and time management skills. The problem is that I just don't know where to put them and keep you and Xpartan both happy. Maybe somebody needs to start a new thread on Hooker Board Addiction. Anyway, you don't have to look back to 2022, as you often advise us to do, to see what I've said that disagrees with what you've said.
The exception is Blood Red's statement that Putin didn't kill Navalny. You seem to really want me to say something about that. Well, instead why don't you post some links supporting whatever it is you believe. You've criticized Blood Red more than once for not doing that. The only links I remember you posting were about logical fallacies and psychological conditions you think your debating partners here suffer from.
In the real world, populated by politicians and the like, I don't believe it makes sense for either side to demonize the other. This will never come to an end as long as the people controlling western countries believe Putin is Hitler, which he's not. However, as you correctly say, we're just a bunch of nimrods on a hooker board. Carry on Paulie.
Yeah no shit.Yep not shit. Still no links, only hostility and pontificating. I rest my case.
You said people like me who haven't been to Ukraine can't post in this thread. Then quote my words. If I said anything like that (probably didn't) then it was tongue in check, mockery. Everyone but you knows these are free for all threads.
Well, instead why don't you post some links supporting whatever it is you believe. You've criticized Blood Red more than once for not doing that.I've posted loads of links here, with war analysis, and especially academic articles debunking Little Vlad's historical mythologies. Jmsuttr was the best debater on this topic and he posted many, but wised up and moved on. All BR does it arrogantly pontificate without any hint of his sources other than to call them "various. " We all know what they are. The first step for you would be to get your nose out of his asshole so you can think more clearly.
As I told Drama Queen, the world isn't safe while tyrants can rattle the nuclear saber and get whatever they want. Russia is short on allies and China is set against nuclear escalation. Dishonorable tyrants with ambitions aren't going to honor peace accords. They'll regroup and strike again. The West has done a lot, but needs to do more and remove some restrictions. I'd love a world without killing and where everyone gets along, but that isn't the world we live in, never has been.
I'll add that a lot of Central and Eastern Europe has expanded into NATO and the EU, by their own requests, because they love democratic values and reject the oppressive, restrictive, and grossly dishonest world that is Russia. My country has alliances, friends, and I want us to stay the course.
Lastly I don't think you're a bad guy at heart, based on much that I've read in the other forum, just deceived, while I hope you are able to move beyond these circular discussions and concentrate on career, family, and Latin American vacations.
Then quote my words. If I said anything like that (probably didn't) then it was tongue in check, mockery. Everyone but you knows these are free for all threads.OK, I don't actually remember you saying people who haven't visited Ukraine can't post here. But I'm sure you've said or implied they shouldn't. I believe you were onto esteemed board member DramaFree about that, and you posted this about me (bold text).
That's what he's been doing daily for many months now on the American Politics thread in the ISG "Opinions" forum while calling himself a centrist. He's been debunked from here to Sunday then recently came to this thread to restart even though he's never been to Ukraine. Likely he discovered this discussion by searching the post histories of people he's been going back in forth with on the other thread.
For example he has ignored all that facts that clearly debunk the notion that Russia was given an oral promise regarding no NATO expansion into Eastern Europe. It's plainly false, but even if true only a complete fool wouldn't insist on getting something so important in writing.
https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/28/candace-owens/fact-checking-claims-nato-us-broke-agreement-again/
https://theconversation.com/ukraine-the-history-behind-russias-claim-that-nato-promised-not-to-expand-to-the-east-177085
So what can you do with someone who digs in online, ignores all corrections and keeps repeating the same fallacious arguments over and over? Ultimately all you can do is ignore them.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_nauseamBTW, If you'd take the time to read the National Security Archives link, including the summaries of the documents, that I've posted at least a couple of times, you'd realize the NATO expansion issue isn't as clear cut as you'd think. For that matter, if you read your Politifact link carefully you'd realize that.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
I've posted loads of links here, with war analysis, and especially academic articles debunking Little Vlad's historical mythologies. Jmsuttr was the best debater on this topic and he posted many, but wised up and moved on. All BR does it arrogantly pontificate without any hint of his sources other than to call them "various. " We all know what they are. The first step for you would be to get your nose out of his asshole so you can think more clearly.
As I told Drama Queen, the world isn't safe while tyrants can rattle the nuclear saber and get whatever they want. Russia is short on allies and China is set against nuclear escalation. Dishonorable tyrants with ambitions aren't going to honor peace accords. They'll regroup and strike again. The West has done a lot, but needs to do more and remove some restrictions. I'd love a world without killing and where everyone gets along, but that isn't the world we live in, never has been.
I'll add that a lot of Central and Eastern Europe has expanded into NATO and the EU, by their own requests, because they love democratic values and reject the oppressive, restrictive, and grossly dishonest world that is Russia. My country has alliances, friends, and I want us to stay the course.
Lastly I don't think you're a bad guy at heart, based on much that I've read in the other forum, just deceived, while I hope you are able to move beyond these circular discussions and concentrate on career, family, and Latin American vacations.And what can I say. You favor the neoconservatives and I'm a pacifist. I've spent time in Russia after February, 2022, and have friends and acquaintances who currently or formerly lived full time in Russia, who provide a different slant from yours and the USA's MSM.
I did take the last part of your post to heart. Circular arguments with EihTooms are not productive, and I stopped myself from getting into another one today. Now something for you. You can learn a lot from people who have different backgrounds and a different outlook than you. Don't dismiss them out of hand, and when you argue try to be respectful, even when you think they're full of shit.
Well. LOL. ? Finally remember imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
. I believe you were onto esteemed board member DramaFree about that...That guy is not esteemed anywhere, least of which in the Ukraine forums.
Who you admire, says a lot.
'Answering' a question with a question is an old, venerable trick, and I'll be happy to share my 2 cents. First, however, I'd like to understand why you're so compelled to call the contemporary nation of Ukraine Banderites. It seems like an odd choice for an American like yourself (right? Given that the man himself was murdered over 60 years ago. What is the non-propagandist value of painting the entire people of Ukraine as supporters of a man who died such a long time ago?Just to be clear, when I said Banderite, I am talking about the Kiev regime which is full of neo Nazi and the scum criminal Azov Nazis that infest the AFU. I have nothing but the utmost respect and compassion and empathy for ORDINARY Ukrainians caught in this needless savage proxy war that NATO provoked. I hope it's clear now. Now, what are your thoughts on Stepan Bandera?
Yep not shit. Still no links, only hostility and pontificating. I rest my case.I addressed all your points, and you couldn't return in kind.
I suggest you try to envision Russian defeat.You can keep dreaming. Ukraine is slowly but surely being defeated in Donetsk and all along the contact line. But you can focus on the PR stunt in Kursk. Give it a little time, see how that ends for the Bandera SCUM that went into Kursk and is terrorizing the innocent Russian civilians there and taking them hostage. But you condone that kind of behavior, I'm sure.
Reiner Otto
08-24-24, 12:50
terrorizing the innocent Russian civilians there and taking them hostage. But you condone that kind of behavior, I'm sure.Why not? They are available then for exchange against forced deportations of Ukrainian children from regions, the Russians occupied:
The United Nations has stated that these deportations constitute war crimes. The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin (a ka Putler) (who has explicitly supported the forced adoptions, including by enacting legislation to facilitate them) and Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for their alleged involvement.
BTW: Did you object against these kidnappings of Ukrainian children? Or is this according your companies regulations?
John Clayton
08-24-24, 17:15
You can keep dreaming. Ukraine is slowly but surely being defeated in Donetsk and all along the contact line. But you can focus on the PR stunt in Kursk. Give it a little time, see how that ends for the Bandera SCUM that went into Kursk and is terrorizing the innocent Russian civilians there and taking them hostage. But you condone that kind of behavior, I'm sure.1) Where are the valiant Russian partisans in Kursk battling the Ukranian aggressors?
2) "How did you go bankrupt?" Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly. ".
― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises.
Who would have predicted the end of the Romanovs 1917 or the end of the USSR in 1991? I'm simply saying, that for your own well being and mental health, you should try to imagine the end of Putin.
That guy is not esteemed anywhere, least of which in the Ukraine forums.
Who you admire, says a lot.You're an esteemed board member too VinDici. Perhaps a little deluded about how you believe this war will end, with Ukraine reclaiming its pre-2014 borders. But esteemed and a board member none the less. DramaFree has made some good contributions to the Mexico and sugar baby threads. If I weren't already tied down to a gold digger, I'd probably try to follow in his footsteps in el Distrito Federal. And I may actually do that someday.
Just to be clear, when I said Banderite, I am talking about the Kiev regime which is full of neo Nazi and the scum criminal Azov Nazis that infest the AFU. I have nothing but the utmost respect and compassion and empathy for ORDINARY Ukrainians caught in this needless savage proxy war that NATO provoked. I hope it's clear now. Now, what are your thoughts on Stepan Bandera?1. Who in the Kyiv regime is a neo-Nazi? You're able to back up your allegations, right? Please provide specific names.
2. And? What SPECIFIC people or groups of people do you call "Banderite"? Is it only Azov brigade or some other units as well? You are aware that there are only 1,500 people in the Azov Brigade, aren't you?
3. Does your dislike of neo-Nazis extend to numerous Russian neo-Nazis fighting against Ukraine?
4. "I have nothing but the utmost respect and compassion and empathy for ORDINARY Ukrainians" Stop! It's ORDINARY Ukrainians who are beating the living hell out of your glorious army. Your hypocrisy is even more disgusting than your propaganda.
5. I don't like Stepan Bandera. He was a fascist, terrorist and rabid anti-Semite, and he envisioned Ukraine as a fascist, dictatorial country. That said, he was capable of defying Hitler and he went to prison for his conviction. He, unlike your current leaders, had courage, determination, and faith.
for the Bandera SCUM that went into Kursk and is terrorizing the innocent Russian civilians there and taking them hostage. But you condone that kind of behavior, I'm sure.1. What particular AFU units in Kursk Oblast are you referring to as "Bandera SCUM" and why?
2. Please provide evidence of AFU terrorizing "the innocent Russian civilians there and taking them hostage. ".
1) Who would have predicted the end of the Romanovs 1917 or the end of the USSR in 1991? I'm simply saying, that for your own well being and mental health, you should try to imagine the end of Putin.I don't see it JC. Putin's approval ratings are typically in the mid 70's and above for Russian polls. A University of Chicago poll in March, 2024 showed 66% intending to vote for Putin. Like George W. Bush and Iraq, Putin's ratings went up when Russia entered Ukraine in 2022 and have since slipped as the war drags on. But the majority of the Russians still view him favorably. American presidents would kill for ratings like his. You probably think the polls are bogus or people are afraid to answer truthfully. I don't see that. Russia's not a police state IMHO.
Fidel Castro, Ali Khamenei, and the Kim family were much worse leaders and much less popular than Putin. Their countries have been subject to sanctions for decades, which never forced them out of power. Instead, the sanctions hurt the people and provided the leaders with an excuse to blame the USA for their failings. I don't see this ending with some kind of uprising or coup or the violent death of Russian leaders.
I do believe the majority of Russians, and the majority of Ukrainians, would like to see this war end ASAP. And hope that sanity prevails and that happens. I recall a poll in the Donbas, phrased something like this. Please choose one of the following,
1. I want to live under Russian control
2. I want to live under Ukrainian control
3. I don't give a fuck, I want a peaceful life and a decent pension
A large number, maybe a plurality, chose "3".
John Clayton
08-25-24, 04:43
I don't see it JC. Putin's approval ratings are typically in the mid 70's and above for Russian polls...".I repeat, where are the brave and patriotic Russians fighting the Ukranians in Kursk? What do you suppose would happen if the Canadians invaded Minnesota?
I repeat, where are the brave and patriotic Russians fighting the Ukranians in Kursk? What do you suppose would happen if the Canadians invaded Minnesota?If the USA invaded Canada and then Canada invaded Minnesota, the USA would probably win the war. If Russia and China pumped tons of money and arms into Canada, then maybe Canada would hold out longer though, and more people would die. If Canada had the opportunity to bring the war to an end by ceding Alberta, would that make sense considering some Albertans don't believe they belong in Canada anyway?
If the USA invaded Canada and then Canada invaded Minnesota, the USA would probably win the war. If Russia and China pumped tons of money and arms into Canada, then maybe Canada would hold out longer though, and more people would die. If Canada had the opportunity to bring the war to an end by ceding Alberta, would that make sense considering some Albertans don't believe they belong in Canada anyway?You didn't answer his question at all. Try again please?
If the USA invaded Canada and then Canada invaded Minnesota, the USA would probably win the war. If Russia and China pumped tons of money and arms into Canada, then maybe Canada would hold out longer though, and more people would die. If Canada had the opportunity to bring the war to an end by ceding Alberta, would that make sense considering some Albertans don't believe they belong in Canada anyway?Excellent analogy.
1. Who in the Kyiv regime is a neo-Nazi? You're able to back up your allegations, right? Please provide specific names.
2. And? What SPECIFIC people or groups of people do you call "Banderite"? Is it only Azov brigade or some other units as well? You are aware that there are only 1,500 people in the Azov Brigade, aren't you?
3. Does your dislike of neo-Nazis extend to numerous Russian neo-Nazis fighting against Ukraine?
4. "I have nothing but the utmost respect and compassion and empathy for ORDINARY Ukrainians" Stop! It's ORDINARY Ukrainians who are beating the living hell out of your glorious army. Your hypocrisy is even more disgusting than your propaganda.
5. I don't like Stepan Bandera. He was a fascist, terrorist and rabid anti-Semite, and he envisioned Ukraine as a fascist, dictatorial country. That said, he was capable of defying Hitler and he went to prison for his conviction. He, unlike your current leaders, had courage, determination, and faith.
1. What particular AFU units in Kursk Oblast are you referring to as "Bandera SCUM" and why?
2. Please provide evidence of AFU terrorizing "the innocent Russian civilians there and taking them hostage. ".The very top of the AFU until recently (Zaluzhny) was a neo Nazi. The Azov scum is already well known. Ukraine's Nazi problem is well known all over. That's why Denazificaiton is one of the objectives of the SMO.
How do you feel about the fact that Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine and there are statues of him and roads names after him all over? As for evidence of AFU terrorizing and abducting ordinary Russian civilians, I suggest you stop jerking off to the pathetic mainstream western media and check X, all the videos are on there. Stop being a lazy fuck.
Why not? They are available then for exchange against forced deportations of Ukrainian children from regions, the Russians occupied:
The United Nations has stated that these deportations constitute war crimes. The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin (a ka Putler) (who has explicitly supported the forced adoptions, including by enacting legislation to facilitate them) and Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for their alleged involvement.
BTW: Did you object against these kidnappings of Ukrainian children? Or is this according your companies regulations?Protecting children from war and from dying in a conflict zone is very bad in your eyes. Ok.
The ICC is a fucking joke. I'll take them seriously once they issue arrest warrants for G. W Bush and Tony Blair, for starters.
The very top of the AFU until recently (Zaluzhny) was a neo Nazi. No, he wasn't. That's a lie.
Ukraine's Nazi problem is well known all over. All over what? What does that even mean? Prove it with polls and data. What percentage of Ukrainians are Nazi?
How do you feel about the fact that Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine and there are statues of him and roads names after him all over? And that gave Putin a reason to invade Ukraine and kill hundreds of thousands of people? Statues?
As for evidence of AFU terrorizing and abducting ordinary Russian civilians, I suggest you stop jerking off to the pathetic mainstream western media and check X, all the videos are on there. Stop being a lazy fuck.In other words, you've lied again. Congrats!
No, he wasn't. That's a lie.in. Congrats!These want to be rambos are the types we run away from in bars. All mouth, no brains. Just like the Ukrainians, or what is left of them.
These want to be rambos are the types we run away from in bars. All mouth, no brains. Just like the Ukrainians, or what is left of them.Here comes a new challenger.
You didn't answer his question at all. Try again please?I'm a pacifist. I'm not a Nationalist. While Canada is a tad socialist and the Ukrainians haven't done nearly as good a job of managing their economy as the Russians, I wouldn't see the point of dying for my country to defend Minnesota from the bloodthirsty Canadians or Kursk from the bloodthirsty Ukrainians.
That said I don't really understand JC's questions. Maybe you could answer them? Also it would be helpful if you could relate your answer back to JC's point that I was debating when he asked the questions:
Who would have predicted the end of the Romanovs 1917 or the end of the USSR in 1991? I'm simply saying, that for your own well being and mental health, you should try to imagine the end of Putin.I believe JC is employing the Socratic method of teaching, and he went right over my head.
I'm a pacifist. I'm not a Nationalist. While Canada is a tad socialist and the Ukrainians haven't done nearly as good a job of managing their economy as the Russians, I wouldn't see the point of dying for my country to defend Minnesota from the bloodthirsty Canadians or Kursk from the bloodthirsty Ukrainians.2 things that are glaring. You refuse to answer the question that was asked. The first time, you didn't answer at all, the second time after being called out, you answered from a personal perspective, which wasn't what was asked either.
If the Ukrainians are bloodthirsty for invading Russia after a war has already started, what pray are the Russians for:
1) Invading a sovereign state at peace.
2) Raping and killing the civilians.
3) Maintaining a constant terror threat over the civilian population by attacking civilian infrastructure.
4) Stopping grain shipments to the Middle East and Africa.
5) Kidnapping Ukrainian children.
6) Conscripting Ukrainian citizens from occupied territories.
Many of these 6 are full on War Crimes, hence the warrants out for Putler.
the Ukrainians haven't done nearly as good a job of managing their economy as the Russians.BTW VinDici, I'd be all for Singapore invading and annexing the island I now call home. The standard of living would go up a lot. That's assuming nobody died and no homes, schools, etc. were destroyed in the process.
Of course, if Ukraine were a member of the EU, it would be a lot better off than it is now. A serious question, why didn’t that happen? I honestly don’t know. Was it because the governments were corrupt and unwilling to clean up their acts?
And along the same line, if Russia would have become a member of NATO back 20 years ago, or if NATO hadnt continued to target Russia as its reason for existence, none of this would have happened. But unfortunately that wasnt acceptable to the western neoconservatives who call the shots.
No, he wasn't. That's a lie.
All over what? What does that even mean? Prove it with polls and data. What percentage of Ukrainians are Nazi?
And that gave Putin a reason to invade Ukraine and kill hundreds of thousands of people? Statues?
In other words, you've lied again. Congrats!You haven't seen the photo of Zaluzhny wearing a bracelet sporting a Nazi swastika? Probably not since you only jerk off to the pathetic western mainstream media which feeds you lies which you swallow up like the gullible fool that you are.
You failed to answer how you feel about the fact that Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine and there are statues of him and roads names after him all over? Does that bother you?
John Clayton
08-26-24, 15:47
...That said I don't really understand JC's questions. Maybe you could answer them? Also it would be helpful if you could relate your answer back to JC's point that I was debating when he asked the questions:
I believe JC is employing the Socratic method of teaching, and he went right over my head.I am concerned with BloodRed's emotional well being.
Of course, if Ukraine were a member of the EU, it would be a lot better off than it is now. A serious question, why didnt that happen? I honestly dont know. Was it because the governments were corrupt and unwilling to clean up their acts?
And along the same line, if Russia would have become a member of NATO back 20 years ago, or if NATO hadnt continued to target Russia as its reason for existence, none of this would have happened. But unfortunately that wasnt acceptable to the western neoconservatives who call the shots.Ukraine didn't have a chance of joining the EU, since each time they tried to take steps in that direction, Russia intervened to stop it. Case in point the Maidan protests saga, which was followed by Russian invasion of Ukrainian territory in contradiction of all previous treaties. This is so well documented, so it seems like malicious intent to pretend that it's unclear why UA has had trouble establishing closer relations with the rest of Europe.
As far as Russia joining NATO is concerned, you may as well allow a team of rapists to babysit your kids, it's an equally clever idea with the same expected results.
Here is some history for the Z Team to reacquaint themselves with:
Since 2012, Ukraine and the EU had been negotiating a free trade and association agreement. In 2013, the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament) overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement with the EU, and Yanukovych urged parliament to adopt laws so that Ukraine would meet the EU's criteria and be able to sign the agreement in November 2013.
Russia, however, put pressure on Ukraine to reject the EU Association Agreement. In August 2013, Russia began restricting Ukrainian imports, which Ukraine's opposition parties described as "a trade war" to pressure the country not to sign the agreement. The agreement was to be finalized at a summit in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius. On 21 November, a week before the summit, Yanukovych suddenly announced he was pulling out of the agreement, and instead strengthening economic ties with Russia. Jovita Neliupienė, foreign policy aide to Lithuania's president Dalia Grybauskaitė, said Yanukovych had called her to say he had changed his mind due to what she called Russian "economic pressure and blackmail". The Lithuanian president's office said Russia had threatened Ukraine with huge trade losses and job losses if it signed the EU agreement. Russia also offered more favorable trade terms than those offered by the EU and IMF.
This sparked protests at Independence Square (Maidan Nezalezhnosti) in the center of Kyiv, which became known as 'Euromaidan'. The protesters, united under the Maidan People's Union, demanded Yanukovych fulfill his pledge to sign the Agreement or else resign. They also called for a return to the 2004 Constitution of Ukraine to give more power to parliament over the president. The scope of the protests soon widened. Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption, abuse of power, human rights violations, and the influence of oligarchs.
During the 'Maidan uprising', Independence Square was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. Police assaulted the camp several times, causing further anger.
Yanukovych has been accused, by Amnesty International among others, of using the Berkut to threaten, attack, and torture protesters. The Berkut, later disbanded on 25 February 2014, were a special police force under his personal command and were accused of defending Russian interests.
Violence escalated after 16 January 2014, when Yanukovych signed draconian Anti-Protest Laws. The first protesters were killed in fierce clashes with police on Hrushevsky Street on 1922 January. In response, demonstrators occupied provincial government buildings in many regions of Ukraine. On 28 January, parliament repealed nine of the 12 restrictive laws. That day, Mykola Azarov, the prime minister of Ukraine, resigned "for the sake of a peaceful resolution" to the civil unrest.
The deadliest clashes were on 1820 February, which saw the most severe violence in Ukraine since it regained independence. Thousands of protesters advanced from the Maidan in Kyiv towards parliament, led by activists with shields and helmets. They were fired on by police snipers. Almost 100 protesters were killed, as were 13 police officers.
Ukraine didn't have a chance of joining the EU, since each time they tried to take steps in that direction, Russia intervened to stop it. Case in point the Maidan protests saga, which was followed by Russian invasion of Ukrainian territory in contradiction of all previous treaties. This is so well documented, so it seems like malicious intent to pretend that it's unclear why UA has had trouble establishing closer relations with the rest of Europe.
As far as Russia joining NATO is concerned, you may as well allow a team of rapists to babysit your kids, it's an equally clever idea with the same expected results.
Here is some history for the Z Team to reacquaint themselves with:
Since 2012, Ukraine and the EU had been negotiating a free trade and association agreement. In 2013, the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament) overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement with the EU, and Yanukovych urged parliament to adopt laws so that Ukraine would meet the EU's criteria and be able to sign the agreement in November 2013.
Russia, however, put pressure on Ukraine to reject the EU Association Agreement. In August 2013, Russia began restricting Ukrainian imports, which Ukraine's opposition parties described as "a trade war" to pressure the country not to sign the agreement. The agreement was to be finalized at a summit in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius. On 21 November, a week before the summit, Yanukovych suddenly announced he was pulling out of the agreement, and instead strengthening economic ties with Russia. Jovita Neliupienė, foreign policy aide to Lithuania's president Dalia Grybauskaitė, said Yanukovych had called her to say he had changed his mind due to what she called Russian "economic pressure and blackmail". The Lithuanian president's office said Russia had threatened Ukraine with huge trade losses and job losses if it signed the EU agreement. Russia also offered more favorable trade terms than those offered by the EU and IMF.
This sparked protests at Independence Square (Maidan Nezalezhnosti) in the center of Kyiv, which became known as 'Euromaidan'. The protesters, united under the Maidan People's Union, demanded Yanukovych fulfill his pledge to sign the Agreement or else resign. They also called for a return to the 2004 Constitution of Ukraine to give more power to parliament over the president. The scope of the protests soon widened. Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption, abuse of power, human rights violations, and the influence of oligarchs.
During the 'Maidan uprising', Independence Square was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. Police assaulted the camp several times, causing further anger.
Yanukovych has been accused, by Amnesty International among others, of using the Berkut to threaten, attack, and torture protesters. The Berkut, later disbanded on 25 February 2014, were a special police force under his personal command and were accused of defending Russian interests.
Violence escalated after 16 January 2014, when Yanukovych signed draconian Anti-Protest Laws. The first protesters were killed in fierce clashes with police on Hrushevsky Street on 1922 January. In response, demonstrators occupied provincial government buildings in many regions of Ukraine. On 28 January, parliament repealed nine of the 12 restrictive laws. That day, Mykola Azarov, the prime minister of Ukraine, resigned "for the sake of a peaceful resolution" to the civil unrest.
The deadliest clashes were on 1820 February, which saw the most severe violence in Ukraine since it regained independence. Thousands of protesters advanced from the Maidan in Kyiv towards parliament, led by activists with shields and helmets. They were fired on by police snipers. Almost 100 protesters were killed, as were 13 police officers.Interesting discussion, thanks for taking the time to write it up. It's interesting Yanukovych, who as you know was very pro Russian, was initially pushing for EU membership for Ukraine and getting push back from Russia. I vaguely remember that.
I ran across this article on the subject, which I think is pretty good.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/17/ukraine-eu-european-union-nato-membership-reform-subsidies-budget-reconstruction-agriculture-war-russia/
It does say, "The Ukrainians are checking more and more boxes on the long EU membership to-do list, from reforming their judiciary to developing a new media law to cracking down on corruption. " But the much larger issue is that other EU members don't want to pay their share of support for Ukraine.
"At the heart of the issue is the EU budget, which is dominated by two major elements: agricultural subsidies and development projects in poorer regions, which combined account for roughly 65 percent of the EU's long-term budget. For both these issues, prospective Ukrainian membership is explosive. Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe, with a per capita income of barely one-tenth of the EU average and less than half that of the EU's poorest member, Bulgaria. Ukraine also now has vast infrastructure and reconstruction needs. To all of this, add one of the continent's largest agricultural sectors that would suddenly be eligible for EU subsidies.
Were the EU's budget and redistribution process to remain unchanged, Kyiv would immediately suck in a vast part of the EU budget, including funds now going to the bloc's less affluent members in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. Many countries currently benefiting from EU funds would turn into net contributors overnight. ".
Another impediment is that countries dependent on agriculture like Poland, Solvakia and Hungary don't want Ukrainian farmers to have duty free access to the EU. And the EU already has too many members, considering it takes unanimous approval by all members to get some things done.
Wouldn't it be better to see European and other western money going to alleviate poverty and build up the economy in Ukraine, through EU membership or otherwise, instead of to wage war. Sounding like a broken record, the two sides should negotiate peace and get this behind them. I disagree with you and Blood Red. I don't think there's going to be a winner.
2 things that are glaring. You refuse to answer the question that was asked. The first time, you didn't answer at all, the second time after being called out, you answered from a personal perspective, which wasn't what was asked either.
If the Ukrainians are bloodthirsty for invading Russia after a war has already started, what pray are the Russians for:
1) Invading a sovereign state at peace.
2) Raping and killing the civilians.
3) Maintaining a constant terror threat over the civilian population by attacking civilian infrastructure.
4) Stopping grain shipments to the Middle East and Africa.
5) Kidnapping Ukrainian children.
6) Conscripting Ukrainian citizens from occupied territories.
Many of these 6 are full on War Crimes, hence the warrants out for Putler.I love you too VinDici. Most Canadians and Ukrainians are not bloodthirsty. That's satire. Contrary to your belief, most Russians aren't either.
How many hundreds of thousands more must die on both sides to pursue the goal of prosecuting Putin for war crimes? And, again, if you're going to do that, why not go after people like George W. Bush and Lyndon Johnson?
That said, you're very persistent, and I want you to be happy. So I posed Clayton's questions to perplexity.ai, a machine which is a lot smarter than I am, and these are the answers.
Question: Where are the brave and patriotic Russians fighting the Ukrainians in Kursk?
The situation in Kursk, like many aspects of the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine, is complex and sensitive. Reliable, independent information about military operations is often limited during active conflicts.
I would encourage you to seek out reputable international news sources and official statements from relevant authorities for the most up-to-date and accurate information on the situation. It's important to consider multiple perspectives and verified facts when forming opinions on such serious matters.
If you have any other questions about the general geopolitical situation or historical context of the region, I'd be happy to provide factual information on those topics.
Question: What do you suppose would happen if the Canadians invaded Minnesota?
If Canada hypothetically invaded Minnesota, the scenario would likely play out as follows:
Initial Invasion
The Canadian forces would likely focus on key strategic targets:
Major cities: They would aim to quickly capture population centers like Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Duluth.
Infrastructure: Rail lines, highways, and bridges would be prime targets for destruction to disrupt communication and transportation.
Military installations: Bases like Camp Ripley would be priority objectives.
Tactics and Forces
The invading force would likely consist of mobile "flying columns" - small, fast-moving units in trucks armed with rifles and machine guns.
These units would aim for quick strikes to spread chaos rather than occupying large areas.
Their goal would be disrupting infrastructure and communications to hinder any U.S. counterattack.
Resistance and Counterattack
Minnesota's National Guard and local law enforcement would offer initial resistance.
The U.S. military would quickly mobilize a massive counteroffensive from neighboring states.
Given the vast superiority of U.S. forces, the Canadian invasion would likely be short-lived.
Long-Term Occupation
If Canada somehow managed to occupy parts of Minnesota:
Guerrilla resistance would likely emerge in rural areas.
Urban centers might see a mix of collaboration and passive resistance.
Maintaining control over such a large area would be extremely challenging for Canadian forces.
Realistic Outcome
In reality, such an invasion is extremely unlikely. The U.S. and Canada are close allies, and Canada lacks the military capability to successfully invade and occupy U.S. territory.
Any actual conflict would likely be resolved diplomatically long before it reached the point of invasion.
I am concerned with BloodRed's emotional well being.Blood Red likes to push people's buttons and he's pretty damn good at it. Based on his serious posts, he'd like to see a cease fire along the current lines of control in Ukraine that leads to a permanent peace and security for Ukraine. And the reality is that's probably the best Ukraine can hope for.
You haven't seen the photo of Zaluzhny wearing a bracelet sporting a Nazi swastika? Wow. That's huge! How about you pause your typing diarrhea and spot us a link?
You failed to answer how you feel about the fact that Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine and there are statues of him and roads names after him all over? Does that bother you?No, I didn't, It just went over your head. I described my feelings about Bandera in vivid details.
You, on the other hand, have repeatedly failed to justify referring to the nation of 40 million as "Banderite". Anything?
On a serious note, Igor-.
You've got to get your act together. This foolish bickering is not going to impress your superiors, and your sophistry skills suck dick, to put it mildly. Watch Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro. Study what they do. I mean, these dudes are not 100% sophists in that classic sort of way, but man, do they know how to manipulate suckers! You need to grow professionally, man, or find another vocation like, I don't know, an engineer or something, LOL.
John Clayton
08-27-24, 05:20
...And the reality is that's probably the best Ukraine can hope for.I don't think Ukraine is feeling that. I know it seems inconceivably remote to you; however, I think you should also try imagining complete Russian army collapse as a thought experiment. Tell me, at a minimum, how you think Russia will continue to resupply Crimea?
As for evidence of AFU terrorizing and abducting ordinary Russian civilians, I suggest you stop jerking off to the pathetic mainstream western media and check X, all the videos are on there. Stop being a lazy fuck.I decided to follow advice from Comrade Pinoccio and "stop being a lazy fuck". Although, for the sake of fairness the lazy fuck in this situation is he because when someone makes a preposterous statement it's his job to back it up.
But that's fine. If Russians had known a thing or two about logic, they wouldn't have plunged in a suicidal military campaign to begin with.
While Twitter is full of fake accounts disseminating Russian disinformation of all kinds (which is a reason why Comrade Pinocchio nudged me in that direction), there are enough videos about kind and courteous interactions between Ukrainian soldiers and Kursk civilians.
1. "Russian civilians talk kindly to Ukrainian soldiers in the captured Kursk region. "Be healthy, hold on": the russian grandmother's first reaction to the newly created Ukrainian commandant's office. ".
https://x.com/i/status/1827001197573628181
2. "The amount of destruction was much less than in Ukrainian towns attacked by Russians. We entered a shop full of household appliances. All fridges and washing machines and the rest of the stuff still with price tags and untouched. What a contrast to the Ukrainian towns looted by Russians. ".
https://x.com/RaimondLueppken/status/1828120973520118099/photo/1
3. Civilians in the Kursk region are happy to see Ukrainian liberators.
https://x.com/i/status/1825513965943705704
4. Were they surprised when they saw the Ukrainian flag there?
- They were very scared, they thought that we will shoot them now, "- about how the civilians of the Kursk region react to the Ukrainian military.
https://x.com/i/status/1827330259668148645
So, what can I say? Thank you Igor for pointing me in the right direction.
Here are a few more links highlighting the difference between AFU and Putin's butchers:
Ukraine sends humanitarian aid to occupied part of Russia's Kursk region
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-sends-humanitarian-aid-occupied-part-russias-kursk-region-2024-08-16
Ukraine is making a point of treating Russian civilians very differently to how Russia treats Ukrainians in occupied territory
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-treating-kursk-civilians-well-very-different-russia-actions-report-2024-8
Ukraine to organise evacuation corridors as Russian civilians flee Kursk region
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240814-%F0%9F%94%B4-live-russia-s-belgorod-region-declares-state-of-emergency-amid-ukrainian-bombardment
I don't think Ukraine is feeling that. I know it seems inconceivably remote to you; however, I think you should also try imagining complete Russian army collapse as a thought experiment. Tell me, at a minimum, how you think Russia will continue to resupply Crimea?Lesson time, Son.
Russia took over control of Crimea in 2014. Then, Russia was able to supply Crimea through ferry. There are many ports there that can facilitate that.
The Kerch bridge came around 2018 or 2019 which Russia can use to supply Crimea. So, if Ukraine took that out (let them try and see the Russian response, good luck Zelensky), Russia won't have an issue supplying Crimea.
The LAND BRIDGE was built around 2022 or around that time. So, if Ukraine takes the Kerch bridge out, Russia still has the land bridge and the ferry routes to supply Crimea.
And the only collapse you need to worry about is that of the AFU who are running out of soldiers, fast. You can't print soldiers like you can money. Already AFU are sending old men and now women to the front line. Horrific. Teens next. Until the last Ukrainian. I get it.
Lesson time, Son.
Russia took over control of Crimea in 2014. Then, Russia was able to supply Crimea through ferry. There are many ports there that can facilitate that.Time to be schooled.
Very expensive solution that can easily be blockaded by Ukraine now that the Black Sea Fleet is disabled.
The Kerch bridge came around 2018 or 2019 which Russia can use to supply Crimea. So, if Ukraine took that out (let them try and see the Russian response, good luck Zelensky), Russia won't have an issue supplying Crimea.Kerch bridge will be destroyed, it's already suffering serious structual integrity problems. Once UA develops their own special purpose missiles, they will get the job done, and the whole world will cheer.
The LAND BRIDGE was built around 2022 or around that time. So, if Ukraine takes the Kerch bridge out, Russia still has the land bridge and the ferry routes to supply Crimea.And you have seen what happens to large Z supply convoys in Ukraine. This will not be economically feasible.
And the only collapse you need to worry about is that of the AFU who are running out of soldiers, fast. You can't print soldiers like you can money. Already AFU are sending old men and now women to the front line. Horrific. Teens next. Until the last Ukrainian. I get it.I agree that UA has more problems finding manpower than the Orcs, but they will still win. They are fighting for their right to exist and not be ruled over by the Orcs.
Your rabid support for the Orcs is unhinged.
Blood Red likes to push people's buttons and he's pretty damn good at it. Based on his serious posts, he'd like to see a cease fire along the current lines of control in Ukraine that leads to a permanent peace and security for Ukraine. And the reality is that's probably the best Ukraine can hope for.The guy is completely unhinged and deaf to any critique of the Russians.
We all want peace in Ukraine, what we don't want is "a win" for Putin, and more Orc aggression in Europe further down the line as they go unpunished for stealing sovereign land and warmongering.
Wouldn't it be better to see European and other western money going to alleviate poverty and build up the economy in Ukraine, through EU membership or otherwise, instead of to wage war. Sounding like a broken record, the two sides should negotiate peace and get this behind them. I disagree with you and Blood Red. I don't think there's going to be a winner.We can pretty much ignore the rabid babbling from BloodRed, however I do agree that we will need to rebuild Ukraine and help it's people.
Reiner Otto
08-27-24, 13:44
The LAND BRIDGE was built around 2022 or around that time. So, if Ukraine takes the Kerch bridge out, Russia still has the land bridge and the ferry routes to supply Crimea.
Enlighten me, please, dear Guru.
Which LAND BRIDGE are you talking about here?
The NEW one, the Russians are still trying to connect to the old train route from Donezk to Simferopol?
BTW, not so many ferry ports with suitable installations available on Crimea, on the Eastern side. Needs ferries, too; to be sunk.
I don't think Ukraine is feeling that. I know it seems inconceivably remote to you; however, I think you should also try imagining complete Russian army collapse as a thought experiment. Tell me, at a minimum, how you think Russia will continue to resupply Crimea?I'm not sure I understand the question. In the inconceivably remote event the Russian army collapsed, then Russia couldn't resupply Crimea. Will Russia leave pre-2014 Ukrainian territory like the USA left Afghanistan or Vietnam, after being worn down by a long war? Unlikely in my view, under the current Russian administration. The next Russian election isn't until 2030.
Unlikely in my view, under the current Russian administration. The next Russian election isn't until 2030.And we already know what the result of that "election" is.
John Clayton
08-27-24, 15:52
I'm not sure I understand the question. In the inconceivably remote event ...The problem with the unimaginable is that it's difficult to imagine.
Enlighten me, please, dear Guru.
Which LAND BRIDGE are you talking about here?
The NEW one, the Russians are still trying to connect to the old train route from Donezk to Simferopol?
BTW, not so many ferry ports with suitable installations available on Crimea, on the Eastern side. Needs ferries, too; to be sunk.Is it really that hard for you to understand what land bridge means? I'll break it down for you. It's the connection by land of Crimea and the 4 new territories. So Crimea can now be supplied by land route as well, and yes the train network. In 2014 we just had the ferry route, now we have land bridge plus the Kerch bridge. So, Crimea is in good hands, do not worry and stop dreaming.
I decided to follow advice from Comrade Pinoccio and "stop being a lazy fuck". But you still failed at reading comprehension which is not a surprise since you have a third grade education. I said to stop being a lazy fuck AND to follow independent news media and not just keep jerking off to the pathetic biased dishonest western mainstream media. I hope it's clear this time. Xpartan.
John Clayton
08-27-24, 19:12
But you still failed at reading comprehension which is not a surprise since you have a third grade education. I said to stop being a lazy fuck...Ad hominem attacks always means a losing argument.
Wow. That's huge! How about you pause your typing diarrhea and spot us a link?
No, I didn't, It just went over your head. I described my feelings about Bandera in vivid details.
You, on the other hand, have repeatedly failed to justify referring to the nation of 40 million as "Banderite". Anything?
On a serious note, Igor-.
You've got to get your act together. This foolish bickering is not going to impress your superiors, and your sophistry skills suck dick, to put it mildly. Watch Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro. Study what they do. I mean, these dudes are not 100% sophists in that classic sort of way, but man, do they know how to manipulate suckers! You need to grow professionally, man, or find another vocation like, I don't know, an engineer or something, LOL.Once again you fail at reading comprehension. I know you gave your opinion on the Nazi Bandera, I asked "how you feel about the fact that Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine and if that bothers you'. I hope the question is clear now, Xpartan. Do try to answer rather than weaseling your way out of it, yet again.
Here's a foto of Zaluzhny posing in front of his hero, the Nazi Bandera.
https://www.wsws.org/asset/9ff3eec6-70f6-487a-8068-caa571482c6a?rendition=image1280
Foto of Zaluzhny wearing a bracelet with the Nazi swastika. Try to zoom in on the bracelet. If you lack the intellect to do this, do let me know, I can help you out being the good hearted kind man that I am.
https://www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2022/10/10/FeZ69HAWIAEe_uR_202210101210346496_H@@IGHT_0_W@@IDTH_600.jpg
Time to be schooled.
Very expensive solution that can easily be blockaded by Ukraine now that the Black Sea Fleet is disabled.Good luck, and keep dreaming.
Kerch bridge will be destroyed, it's already suffering serious structual integrity problems. Once UA develops their own special purpose missiles, they will get the job done, and the whole world will cheer.It can be destroyed or put out of commission, sure, I agree with you. But the consequences afterwards for the Nazi Kiev regime will be unimaginable and the corrupt actor will be a dead man.
And you have seen what happens to large Z supply convoys in Ukraine. This will not be economically feasible.
I agree that UA has more problems finding manpower than the Orcs, but they will still win. They are fighting for their right to exist and not be ruled over by the Orcs.
Your rabid support for the Orcs is unhinged.Your racism is disgusting.
Ukraine is winning. LOL.
DramaFree11
08-27-24, 21:31
But you still failed at reading comprehension which is not a surprise since you have a third grade education. I said to stop being a lazy fuck AND to follow independent news media and not just keep jerking off to the pathetic biased dishonest western mainstream media. I hope it's clear this time. Xpartan.Blood Red that is asking way too much. I think Xman is paid by CNN. These guys are normally wrong about just about everything, They live in a fantasy, fueled by fake news. They let their liberal views and their hatred towards Russia, interfere in making sound decisions. They're in for a big surprise when they lose the war and Ukraine is destroyed in the process.
For the record Ukraine has out performed everyone's expectations, but at what cost? Prime example they get a small PR victory, going into Russia, but again you have to ask at what is the cost and what is the advantage? Yes, in the PR world it is a small victory, but in reality they have lost so many soldiers and equipment, too basically accomplish nothing. It was a suicide mission and probably is the beginning of the end of Ukraine military. They might have equipment and money, but there will be no soldiers left, but nobody cares, especially the liberals. Ukraine is getting their ass kicked, believe what you want. Time will tell.
As usual even when Ukraine wins they lose in the long run!!
This war should have never started, not to mention Ukraine should have been negotiating from day one, but that would make way too much sense. Ukraine is finished the men are being wiped out, there will be nothing left, but why stop now.
Reiner Otto
08-27-24, 22:41
Is it really that hard for you to understand what land bridge means? I'll break it down for you. It's the connection by land of Crimea and the 4 new territories. So Crimea can now be supplied by land route as well, Obviously, you have no idea how narrow the connections by land to Crimea are, in reality. Which drastically limits the possible supply. But there could be more ferries, of course.
In those shallow waters.
And how bad and narrow the few roads are, over there. In reality, only serious supplies via the train route, now under construction.
Fortunately, I have seen the Red fleet in Sevastopol already a few times, the former submarine base and "Z". Which had a very special meaning during Ukrainian Crimea.
The term of office of the Rada, according to the Constitution of Ukraine is 5 years. The Verkhovna Rada of the 9th convocation began its work on August 29,2019 and after August 29,2024 the Rada becomes illegitimate or expired. Zed himself became expired illegitimate on May 21,2024.
In total since August 6, 2024 in the Kursk region the AFU lost more than 6,600 servicemen, 73 tanks, 34 infantry fighting vehicles, 62 armored personnel carriers, 432 armored combat vehicles, 201 vehicles, 45 artillery pieces, 13 multiple launch rocket system launchers, including four HIMARS and one MLRS. The amount of lost equipment is higher than during last year Rabotino push and daily losses in the region exceed all equipment losses combined along the front line.
So, if Ukraine took that out (let them try and see the Russian response, good luck Zelensky), .And what will the bad wolf Putin do pray tell? Bomb and kill more civilians? As if Putin needs an excuse to murder civilians! Cannibals don't eat lettuce.
There are no more red lines, Igor. Poof, they're gone.
But you still failed at reading comprehension which is not a surprise since you have a third grade education. I said to stop being a lazy fuck AND to follow independent news media and not just keep jerking off to the pathetic biased dishonest western mainstream media. I hope it's clear this time. Xpartan.But I did use independent media! Maybe your "independent news media" are more independent than mine? What media are you referring to, dear Igor? Links, pretty please?
Once again you fail at reading comprehension. I know you gave your opinion on the Nazi Bandera, I asked "how you feel about the fact that Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine and if that bothers you'. I hope the question is clear now, Xpartan. Do try to answer rather than weaseling your way out of it, yet again.Gee, it's so hard to please you. I don't know, let's try this.
1. Bandera is very popular in Ukraine, especially in Western Ukraine, but he's not a national hero. That statement presumes the vast majority of Ukrainians view him positively. This is not the case.
2. Even if that were true (it isn't), what's your point?
3. Bandera was a nationalist, but not a Nazi. He was a fascist but not a Nazi. He was a totalitarian, but not a Nazi. He was a highly controversial figure, but he wasn't a Nazi. He spent two years in a German concentration camp. His fighters fought against both the Soviets and the Germans. This is your history, comrade. Learn it.
4. Weaseling is your favorite sport. I don't do propaganda, hence no reason to weasel. You, on the other hand, deal in lies. You have all reasons to weasel.
Here's a foto of Zaluzhny posing in front of his hero, the Nazi Bandera.
https://www.wsws.org/asset/9ff3eec6-70f6-487a-8068-caa571482c6a?rendition=image1280
Foto of Zaluzhny wearing a bracelet with the Nazi swastika. Try to zoom in on the bracelet. If you lack the intellect to do this, do let me know, I can help you out being the good hearted kind man that I am.
https://www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2022/10/10/FeZ69HAWIAEe_uR_202210101210346496_H@@IGHT_0_W@@IDTH_600.jpgOh Igor, Igor! So you've finally produced a link. Even two links, wow!
Well, let's see.
First of, Zaluzhny should've known better. A photo with Bandera on the background -- that wasn't wise. I haven't found a proof that this photo is a fake, so for now I'll treat it as authentic.
Your second link, however, (and I'm truly sorry to upset you) is a total fake and was, most likely, produced by a member of your organization.
https://fakenews.pl/en/general/no-valerii-zaluzhnyi-commander-in-chief-of-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine-does-not-wear-a-bracelet-with-a-swastika/
On 9 October, Raheem Kassam, former adviser to Nigel Farage, one of the co-authors of Brexit, posted on his Twitter profile a photo of Valerii Zaluzhnyi, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, with a close-up of his bracelet. In the enlarged photo, he marked one of the symbols on the bracelet and added the following caption:
NOTHING TO SEE HERE just Ukraines head of the Armed Forces wearing a diamond swastika bracelet.
His post was shared several thousand times, gaining almost 30,000 likes. The alleged swastika, however, turned out to be a graphic artifact created as a result of the enlargement of the photo, while the actual symbol depicts a Celtic knot.
Manipulation: A Celtic symbol
The photograph of General Zaluzhnyi in the false context was shared on Twitter and Facebook i.a. by Piotr Panasiuk, known for spreading anti-vaccine propaganda. The manipulation of image quality was explained by Twitter user @osmnactej. In his post, he presented a photograph of the bracelet in good quality with the Celtic Eternity Knot marked. Below, for comparison, he posted a version with deteriorated quality of the photo. As a result of compressing the graphics, a pattern resembling a swastika was created. This is a so-called artifact, that is, a side effect of compression used in order to reduce image size or change the format.And here is a twitter post dissecting the scam. Enjoy, I know how much you like Twitter.
https://twitter.com/osmnactej/status/1579212056795889664
General Valerii Zaluzhnyi (Залужний) doesn't have "svastika" on his bracelet (браслет). What might look like "svastika" is just an effect of JPEG compression.
You can reproduce the illusion at home:
1) download an up-close image of the bracelet: Any other requests?
In total since August 6, 2024 in the Kursk region the AFU lost more than 6,600 servicemen, 73 tanks, 34 infantry fighting vehicles, 62 armored personnel carriers, 432 armored combat vehicles, 201 vehicles, 45 artillery pieces, 13 multiple launch rocket system launchers, including four HIMARS and one MLRS. The amount of lost equipment is higher than during last year Rabotino push and daily losses in the region exceed all equipment losses combined along the front line.Have you just replaced General Konashenkov? Let me show you how it's done.
The AFU has lost 10,000,000 soldiers, 10,000 tanks, 500,000 other vehicles, 200,000 artillery pieces, 13,000 MLRS launchers including 20,000 HIMARS, and more.
See?
Be bold.
Obviously, you have no idea how narrow the connections by land to Crimea are, in reality. Which drastically limits the possible supply. But there could be more ferries, of course.
In those shallow waters.
And how bad and narrow the few roads are, over there. In reality, only serious supplies via the train route, now under construction.
Fortunately, I have seen the Red fleet in Sevastopol already a few times, the former submarine base and "Z". Which had a very special meaning during Ukrainian Crimea.Is there a point to this post of yours? The bottom line is that Russia was able to supply Crimea in 2014 by sea, and now they have 2 additional routes (land bridge and Kerch bridge).
The new railroad line to Crimea which passes close to the Sea of Azov is already in operation since March 15,2024.
And what will the bad wolf Putin do pray tell? Bomb and kill more civilians? As if Putin needs an excuse to murder civilians! Cannibals don't eat lettuce.
There are no more red lines, Igor. Poof, they're gone.
But I did use independent media! Maybe your "independent news media" are more independent than mine? What media are you referring to, dear Igor? Links, pretty please? .
I know you're a little slow, but Reuters, Business Insider and France24 are not independent media LOL.
.
Gee, it's so hard to please you. I don't know, let's try this.
1. Bandera is very popular in Ukraine, especially in Western Ukraine, but he's not a national hero. That statement presumes the vast majority of Ukrainians view him positively. This is not the case.
2. Even if that were true (it isn't), what's your point?
3. Bandera was a nationalist, but not a Nazi. He was a fascist but not a Nazi. He was a totalitarian, but not a Nazi. He was a highly controversial figure, but he wasn't a Nazi. He spent two years in a German concentration camp. His fighters fought against both the Soviets and the Germans. This is your history, comrade. Learn it.
4. Weaseling is your favorite sport. I don't do propaganda, hence no reason to weasel. You, on the other hand, deal in lies. You have all reasons to weasel. .
Bandera served as an agent of the Nazi Germany military intelligence. You don't know shit about shit.
.
Oh Igor, Igor! So you've finally produced a link. Even two links, wow!
Well, let's see.
First of, Zaluzhny should've known better. A photo with Bandera on the background -- that wasn't wise. I haven't found a proof that this photo is a fake, so for now I'll treat it as authentic.
Your second link, however, (and I'm truly sorry to upset you) is a total fake and was, most likely, produced by a member of your organization.
https://fakenews.pl/en/general/no-valerii-zaluzhnyi-commander-in-chief-of-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine-does-not-wear-a-bracelet-with-a-swastika/.
And here is a twitter post dissecting the scam. Enjoy, I know how much you like Twitter.
https://twitter.com/osmnactej/status/1579212056795889664.
Any other requests? .
Zaluzhny is an admirer of the Nazi Bandera, hence the foto. The foto of the bracelet with the Nazi swastika is legit, pics don't lie. Your links mean nothing, they are nothing but lies. See the original pic, zoom in, and you will see the Nazi swastikia.
...unhinged ranting...If you care so much about Nazis, tell us about your compatriots, the Orcs from Z squad?
The new railroad line to Crimea which passes close to the Sea of Azov is already in operation since March 15,2024.But they are obsessed with taking down the Kerch bridge. Like I said, let the Nazi Kiev regime try it, and then they will see the consequences.
Reiner Otto
08-29-24, 16:24
The new railroad line to Crimea which passes close to the Sea of Azov is already in operation since March 15,2024.Some more fake news?
Read.
https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-06-21/russia-finalizes-train-line-to-connect-to-the-occupied-ukrainian-territories-in-the-sea-of-azov-and-crimea.html
Of course, Blood Red was eager to pick up your fake news. Without verification, because it matches his job.
Some more fake news?
Read.
https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-06-21/russia-finalizes-train-line-to-connect-to-the-occupied-ukrainian-territories-in-the-sea-of-azov-and-crimea.html
Of course, Blood Red was eager to pick up your fake news. Without verification, because it matches his job.How did I pick up on his 'fake' news as you put it? I already said a while back that Russia can supply Crimea by sea, by air, by Kerch bridge and the land bridge.
You probably don't know this, but the main objective of the failed AFU offensive last year was to reach the sea of Azov and sever the land bridge.
John Clayton
08-29-24, 18:56
...I know you're a little slow, but Reuters, Business Insider and France24 are not independent media LOL...Just out of curiosity, do you work for an international company or Russian? How are you paid -- RUB or USD?
How did I pick up on his 'fake' news as you put it? I already said a while back that Russia can supply Crimea by sea, by air, by Kerch bridge and the land bridge.
You probably don't know this, but the main objective of the failed AFU offensive last year was to reach the sea of Azov and sever the land bridge.Anything Q posts is a pack of lies directly from Orc TV, if you are relying on him and Drama, then you may as well pack up and go back to the Kremlin right now.
.
I know you're a little slow, but Reuters, Business Insider and France24 are not independent media LOL.That's great news. So what media are independent? Come on, don't be shy now.
.The foto of the bracelet with the Nazi swastika is legit, pics don't lie. Wow, that's priceless even from you! Thank you, I needed a good laugh.
But they are obsessed with taking down the Kerch bridge. Like I said, let the Nazi Kiev regime try it, and then they will see the consequences.There are actually 2 rail tracks in operation for freight trains and passenger traffic to start next year along the land corridor.
But they are obsessed with taking down the Kerch bridge. Like I said, let the Nazi Kiev regime try it, and then they will see the consequences.What consequences? You never said what Putin would do that he's never done before. Why be shy about this?
On August 29 2014, Ukrainian volunteers fighting Russian separatists near Ilovaisk in Donetsk Oblast, found themselves surrounded. They were promised a safe passage by the local command, which was publicly backed by Putin. Instead, hundreds were gunned down by regular Russian troops during the retreat.
Let it serve as a reminder to all useful idiots who still believe that Putin or Russia can be trusted.
The Battle of Ilovaisk: Details of a Massacre Inside Rebel-Held Eastern Ukraine
https://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/battle-ilovaisk-details-massacre-inside-rebel-held-eastern-ukraine-282003.html
Russian crime at Ilovaisk in 2014 won't go unpunished, Zelensky says on Defenders Remembrance Day
https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-on-ilovaisk
Just out of curiosity, do you work for an international company or Russian? How are you paid -- RUB or USD?I am currently happily unemployed.
Anything Q posts is a pack of lies directly from Orc TV, if you are relying on him and Drama, then you may as well pack up and go back to the Kremlin right now.So what are you saying exactly? That there is no land bridge to Crimea?
What consequences? You never said what Putin would do that he's never done before. Why be shy about this?You really have no clue do you. Look at Kiev right now. Yeah they have issues with power now that Russia has started targeting the energy infrastructure. But it could look a lot worse if Russia wanted. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, so try and put two and two together.
That's great news. So what media are independent? Come on, don't be shy now.
Wow, that's priceless even from you! Thank you, I needed a good laugh.Yes, that pic of Zaluzhny is authentic and has not been doctored. Zoom in on the bracelet, you will see the Nazi swastika. You already have the pic of Zaluzhny in front of a portrait of his hero, the Nazi Stepan Bandera. I rest my case. P.S. Nice selective quoting.
John Clayton
08-30-24, 19:49
You really have no clue do you. Look at Kiev right now. Yeah they have issues with power now that Russia has started targeting the energy infrastructure. But it could look a lot worse if Russia wanted. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, so try and put two and two together.This is pain of cognitive dissonance. The unstoppable might of the Russian army, righteous victimhood -- you are a victim of 80 years of unceasing Russian propaganda. Try closing your eyes and breathing deeply through your nose.
This is pain of cognitive dissonance. The unstoppable might of the Russian army, righteous victimhood -- you are a victim of 80 years of unceasing Russian propaganda. Try closing your eyes and breathing deeply through your nose.You can't debate worth shit so you post nonsense.
You really have no clue do you. Look at Kiev right now. Yeah they have issues with power now that Russia has started targeting the energy infrastructure. But it could look a lot worse if Russia wanted. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, so try and put two and two together.So, why don't you enlighten us? What exactly will scary Putin do after the Ukrainians destroy the bridge?
Stop with your dumb, vague, apocalyptical whispering and tell us already. Most of all, be specific, so we can compare our notes after -- yes, AFTER, not "if" -- the bridge is destroyed.
I say he'll do nothing that he hasn't already done. More bombings, more killings. Nothing new. Just same old war crimes, same old genocide.
Yes, that pic of Zaluzhny is authentic and has not been doctored. Zoom in on the bracelet, you will see the Nazi swastika. I don't get it. You really don't understand that you sound like an idiot or you just don't care? The twit I linked to shows two pics next to each other. It tells you how to reproduce this illusion. Just go there and do it for yourself.
https://x.com/osmnactej/status/1579212056795889664
General Valerii Zaluzhnyi (Залужний) doesn't have "svastika" on his bracelet (браслет). What might look like "svastika" is just an effect of JPEG compression.
You can reproduce the illusion at home:
1) download an up-close image of the bracelet:"
You can't debate worth shit so you post nonsense.Look within.
You are on a mongering board, in the Ukraine forums promoting the glory of the Russians.
Something has gone wrong in your life.
Take some time for self reflection.
John Clayton
08-31-24, 01:45
You can't debate worth shit so you post nonsense.Explain to us again the invasion of Kursk oblast and the response by the mighty Russian army.
Explain to us again the invasion of Kursk oblast and the response by the mighty Russian army.I already addressed it if you had read my previous posts. The Russians got caught with their pants down, a huge intelligence failure. The purpose of AFU with the Kursk PR stunt was to capture the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant, which they failed to do. They also hoped to divert Russian manpower from the Donbas to Kursk. That also did not happen, and the AFU defenses are crumbling in Donetsk. The Bandera terrorists in Kursk are in an open area, they can't really dig in and they will be isolated and killed, make no mistake about it. Ukraine can't sustain or hold on to Kursk. This talk about a buffer zone is complete nonsense. Anyone with a military background will tell you this. The Banderites in Kursk are exposed. They have no air cover. They are sitting ducks for Russian drones and missiles. The Kursk incursion was a gamble which failed.
John Clayton
08-31-24, 07:04
...they will be isolated and killed, make no mistake about it. Ukraine can't sustain or hold on to Kursk...I can see this is emotionally very difficult for you. It is impossible to recognize when you're in, and a victim of, a religion or a cult until there is a catastrophic event that forces you awake. For eighty years the Russians have very effectively created the self actualizing myth about themselves. Russia can never be defeated in battle. The Russian people are strong. We Russians single handedly defeated the Nazis. Our great grandfathers were heroes who nobly sacrificed themselves for the Motherland. We were the heroes of WWII. Russian soldiers are strong. The Russian army is the greatest in the world. We are great, we are powerful -- and yet we are victims! The West is evil and conspires against us. Ukraine (and Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Finland) is (are) a weak and degenerate country ruled by nazis. And Ukraine is not a real country anyway. Ukranians are slavs like us, but not exactly like us since they are stupid, craven and weak, and needless to say we will defeat them in a week. By right and history Ukraine is part of Russia. The Ukranians will welcome us as liberators! Crimea is an integral part of Russia. Russia is a mighty country and no one can defeat us, and blah blah blah.
It is all a pack of lies. Russians have been fed disinformation, propaganda, bullshit and lies for eighty years. Surely, on some level (and having access to news from around the world), you must realize that you have been fed a bowlful of total bullshit for your entire life. The truth is Russia did not wage a noble war in WWII -- it was a vile war of territorial aggrandizement, which oppressed and terrorized free people for the subsequent forty years. In 1992, Russia lost 40% of its GDP and manufacturing base when Ukraine left...and that's exactly what you're fighting against now. Russia is not great. It is not powerful. Its GDP is the same as Mexico's. You have a rotting, corrupt, incompetent armed forces with rotting planes, ships and missiles, manned by alcoholics, prisioners and conscripts. Mexico could beat Russia.
Okay, mister all wise, super experienced, military guy. Let's make a bet. When are the Russians going to kick the Ukranians out of Kursk? A week, a month, a year? When? Place your bet. As I said in the first sentence, I know this is hard for you. Tell me, when you see videos of the M1126 ICV's just f!cking ravaging behind your lines, what does that make you feel? Does it make you confident in the power and might of the Russian army. Or maybe, do you feel the teeny tiniest bit of doubt?
Okay, mister all wise, super experienced, military guy. Let's make a bet. When are the Russians going to kick the Ukranians out of Kursk? A week, a month, a year? When? Place your bet. As I said in the first sentence, I know this is hard for you. Tell me, when you see videos of the M1126 ICV's just f!cking ravaging behind your lines, what does that make you feel? Does it make you confident in the power and might of the Russian army. Or maybe, do you feel the teeny tiniest bit of doubt?I cannot predict a time frame, that would be foolish to do. But I have already clearly stated that the Bandera scum terrorists in Kursk will be neutralized and that this buffer zone talk is complete bullshit, it's not going to happen. Pay attention to the situation in Donetsk, that's where the real battle is. Watch the Bandera defenses in Donetsk collapse and watch the corrupt actor who is the illegal President of Ukraine get more and more desperate. History will not judge this clown kindly, he campaigned with a promise of peace and took Ukraine down the primrose path.
But I have already clearly stated that the Bandera scum terrorists in Kursk will be neutralized and that this buffer zone talk is complete bullshit, it's not going to happen. Pay attention to the situation in Donetsk, that's where the real battle is. Watch the Bandera defenses in Donetsk collapse and watch the corrupt actor who is the illegal President of Ukraine get more and more desperate. History will not judge this clown kindly, he campaigned with a promise of peace and took Ukraine down the primrose path.What are you talking about?
Russians have attacked civilians, tortured soldiers, raped the populace and kidnapped the children. The orcs haven't had a democratic election in decades and you talk about Ukrainians with absolutely no evidence, and on top accuse others of lacking debate skills?
There is no debating someone who accuses one side of atrocities, yet is completely blind to the exponentially worse things that his own paymasters are doing.
All of your talk here is completely disingenuous and trolling. Look within and take some time to reflect.
Update: I had a chance to visit and work in person with the "business associate" below, who I'd now call a friend. He says the fighting is getting increasingly close to the town where his business partner's family lives. They're still semi-hiding in their basements, but happily expecting the Russians to take control of the town soon. He says his partner is now updating him frequently.
This is a message I got today from a western business associate who worked in the FSU for a couple of decades. It's about one of his business partners who was originally from the Donbas. I've omitted places and names so I don't "out" myself or him.
*****s extended family, Aunts and Uncles and cousins live in (Name of city and area in Donbas) under the jack-boot of the Ukrainian Army and last time I heard feed-back about six months ago, they were fearing for their lives daily. Skin-heads patrol the streets and pistol whip any dissenters. They are afraid to speak Russian as they have a mixed Russian and Cossack heritage. *****s aunt and uncles and cousins have been living in their respective basements for a few years now, one cousin died of a heart attack last year (only 30 years old). ***** was devastated, it's all very sad for Ukrainians to be thrust into a major war with one of the most effective yet brutal armies historically and the west pouring weapons in, to 'save Ukraine just increases the misery of the people who can't do much as they don't live in a democracy as we understand it.
John Clayton
08-31-24, 19:06
Update: I had a chance to visit and work in person with the "business associate" below, who I'd now call a friend. He says the fighting is getting increasingly close to the town where his business partner's family lives. They're still semi-hiding in their basements, but happily expecting the Russians to take control of the town soon. He says his partner is now updating him frequently.The Kursk invasion is clearly unnerving to Russian propagandists.
The Kursk invasion is clearly unnerving to Russian propagandists.Why would he write negatively about the Russian army if he were a propagandist? He was writing and talking to me, not posting on a message board.
John Clayton
08-31-24, 21:44
Why would he write negatively about the Russian army if he were a propagandist? He was writing and talking to me, not posting on a message board.You are the propagandist. You are posting or maybe "reposting" heavy handed lies and propaganda to this forum. The "event" your "friend" described to you is an invention.
You are the propagandist. You are posting or maybe "reposting" heavy handed lies and propaganda to this forum. The "event" your "friend" described to you is an invention.Tiny12 is not a propagandist, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. He's very active with long-winded posts in American Politics and this section. Russian trolls are not like that. They're not well-paid and lazy in general. They don't tend to go above and beyond.
Tiny12 rather belongs to a widely diverse group of people from all walks of life, who've been described by KGB / FSB as "useful idiots". During the Cold War, they used to be Communist sympathizers, but nowadays they're disillusioned Russophiles who believe that Russia holds some kind of a magic-light alternative to the Western civilization. Whatever their motivation is, they end up doing even more damage than bona-fide Russian "propacondoms", IMHO.
Of course, his "colleague" from this particular exchange is totally a Russian propagandist who's playing him like a flute. That colleague claimed that in Ukraine-governed parts of Donbas people aren't allowed to speak Russian. That's so overboard, it would be funny unless the 'language oppression" libel weren't used by the Russians to carry a genocidal war.
Here is an excellent and, more importantly, concise article from The Hill.
https://thehill.com/opinion/4855763-russia-ukraine-information-war/
Russia ramps up its information war against Ukraine, aiming to weaken Western support
Russia is intensifying its information war against Ukraine just as its military losses soar and Ukrainian forces brazenly occupy Russian territories.
Western governments ignore these psychological operations, aimed at American and European audiences, at their peril. Their impact can weaken political, military and economic support for Kyiv just at a time when the war appears to be turning against Moscow.
Russia uses various methods to affect public opinion in the West. Financial contributions and media support help political parties and movements that favor Moscow. Propaganda and disinformation are aimed at leftists and rightists, populists and progressives, and ethnic majorities and minorities to distort reality and exacerbate divisions in Western societies.
Traditional media and social networks are involved through fake accounts, bots and trolls. Cyber hacking also interferes with Western elections, leaks confidential information and attacks critical infrastructure in targeted states.
Russian operatives have developed public organizations, NGOs and even churches to spread falsehoods that Moscows war against Ukraine was a necessary response to NATO provocations. In June 2023, French authorities discovered a large-scale disinformation campaign that included fake websites that simulated French media and government sites. The goal was to disseminate fake news directed against Ukraine.
In March 2024, the Kremlin accused Ukraine of involvement in the terrorist attack in the Krocus City Hall in Moscow. Anti-Ukrainian messages are also promoted in Russian outlets by favorably disposed Russian experts from universities, think tanks and the media. Pro-Russian Telegram channels and the Sputnik News Agency also create propaganda channels on platforms such as TikTok and YouTube.
Even Ukraines media have been infiltrated by pro-Moscow operatives. Before Russias annexation of Crimea in 2014, several branches of Russian media included outlets in Ukraine, such as RIA Novosti, Izvestia and Komsomolskaya Pravda. Some were closed and criminal proceedings were initiated against others, while a few continued their anti-Ukrainian disinformation work and suspected Russian subversion.
Several outlets formally cut their links with Russia, such as RBC-Ukraine, one of the countrys largest and most influential news agencies, but questions remain over its ownership and connections. Recent investigations have revealed that the ultimate owner of RBC-Ukraine is itself an anonymously owned offshore company in the British Virgin Islands, Thornley Investment LTD, which in the past might have been affiliated with a sister media outlet, RBC-Russia.
Following Russias full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the editorial team of RBC-Ukraine tried to pre-empt accusations about its Kremlin connections by publishing articles denouncing well-known personalities and companies in Ukraine as insufficiently patriotic and having secret ties with Moscow. But this looks like camouflage for its own opaque ownership structure.
Moscow-linked outlets are involved in purveying fake stories to discredit the Ukrainian government. One recent example that circulated widely in the West claimed that Olena Zelenska, President Volodymyr Zelenskys wife, purchased a $4.4 million Bugatti sports car with American taxpayer dollars. This fake report, which first appeared on an Instagram post, was fully debunked by the car manufacturer, who filed a criminal complaint for forgery and defamation.
The goal of such disinformation was to undercut U.S. support in arming Ukraine by painting the government in Kyiv as irredeemably corrupt. Although official corruption remains a persistent problem in some of Ukraines institutions, the current authorities are taking a tougher approach than all previous administrations and have sought American assistance to fight corruption.
As Ukraine regains the initiative in the war with increasing volumes of Western weapons, domestically produced missiles and drones, and fresh recruits, Kremlin propaganda is ramping up its information offensive. The aim is to promote disarray among Western leaders, limit assistance to Ukraine and push Kyiv toward a ceasefire in which it surrenders its occupied territories and abandons the areas it has seized inside Russia.
Amid an existential war against an imperialist aggressor, no part of the Ukrainian media should be permitted to maintain business links with Moscow and spread narratives scripted in the Kremlin.
Janusz Bugajski is a Senior Fellow at the Jamestown Foundation in Washington, D.C. His most recent book is Failed State: A Guide to Russias Rupture.
I can see this is emotionally very difficult for you. It is impossible to recognize when you're in, and a victim of, a religion or a cult until there is a catastrophic event that forces you awake. For eighty years the Russians have very effectively created the self actualizing myth about themselves. Russia can never be defeated in battle. This is an excellent analysis, but I'll argue that they've been at it much longer than 80 years. That "never-defeated" myth was circulated right before the 19th century Crimean War (in which Russia was defeated), 1905 Russo-Japanese war (in which Russia was defeated), The WW1 (in which Russia was defeated yet again with the most catastrophic consequences). The same delusion was flying high before the 1940 Winter War (in which Russia was thoroughly humiliated by tiny Finland) and the WW2 (in which Russia was ALMOST defeated and would've been if not for the unprecedented military and material support from the Land Lease). Of course, after Russia emerged victorious from the WW2, their extreme arrogance rebounded quite nicely, up until their defeats in the Afghan War and the First Chechnya War.
Russia has a very long history of self-delusion, as we can see, and it never ever learns.
You are the propagandist. You are posting or maybe "reposting" heavy handed lies and propaganda to this forum. The "event" your "friend" described to you is an invention.The "event" is consistent with reports from the press and NGO's before it became politically incorrect to criticize Ukraine:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/tortured-and-a-kidney-lost-life-in-ukraine-s-illegal-secret-prisons/story-2lhm82qnBLniFYhwkFIRbK.html
https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/03/19/ukraine-justice-needed-former-secret-prison-detainees
https://www.thetimes.com/world/article/kiev-allows-torture-and-runs-secret-jails-says-un-vwlcrpsjn
https://www.voanews.com/a/watchdogs-civilians-detained-tortured-in-ukraine/3428561.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/29/human-rights-groups-sound-alarm-on-secret-detentions-in-ukraine/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur50/4455/2016/en/
Yeah, Russia may have kicked this off, but Ukraine's treatment of civilians in the eastern part of the country hasn't been anything to brag about either. Undoubtedly some people in the Donbas who were publicly pro-Russian had a difficult time with the Ukrainian authorities and vice versa.
I'm just repeating what was passed on to me. And I believe it.
What are you talking about?
Russians have attacked civilians, tortured soldiers, raped the populace and kidnapped the children. The orcs haven't had a democratic election in decades and you talk about Ukrainians with absolutely no evidence, and on top accuse others of lacking debate skills?
There is no debating someone who accuses one side of atrocities, yet is completely blind to the exponentially worse things that his own paymasters are doing.
All of your talk here is completely disingenuous and trolling. Look within and take some time to reflect.First of all, this is a war, a savage, brutal needless war that should have never taken place. I'm sure the Russians have committed atrocities and war crimes, just like the AFU have. And I condemn both. So for you to say I condone Russian war crimes is completely false.
As for the corrupt actor, his term expired earlier this year. He has run away from holding elections like the coward that he is. Countries have held elections during war time, so don't give me that argument. And I have never praised Russia for being a shining democracy either.
The Kursk invasion is clearly unnerving to Russian propagandists.You have zero understanding about what is happening on the battlefield. Stick to punting. And if you get the chance, pay attention to what is happening in Donetsk. And you might want to read this article from the BBC, which is an extremely dishonest pro Ukrainian 'news' source.
I'm not the kind of guy to say I told you so, but I told you so!
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c984g10e22lo
Critics in Kyiv fear that the country's military has made a serious miscalculation.
By sending troops into Kursk instead of reinforcing the eastern frontline, the military has left Pokrovsk and other important Ukrainian towns exposed, these critics say.
John Clayton
09-01-24, 05:18
You have zero understanding about what is happening on the battlefield. Stick to punting. And if you get the chance...Cognitive dissonance is typically experienced as psychological stress. That's what you are experiencing. Your deep, long held belief / faith in the might and superiority of the Russian army is distressingly challenged by the invasion of Kursk oblast. I mean, obviously, the Russian cause is just! The Russian army is mighty and indomitable! How can it be that these inferior Ukranians have been be on sacred Russian soil for a month? Why haven't they been humiliated and expelled?
These internal inconsistencies cause you stress. Hence, you have to create narratives to reduce the internal pain. It may comfort you that this phenomenon, cognitive dissonance, has been well understood for almost 70 years. As I wrote previously, the best short term therapy is probably deep breathing...not much else you can do that will alleviate your pain.
Cognitive dissonance is typically experienced as psychological stress. That's what you are experiencing. Your deep, long held belief / faith in the might and superiority of the Russian army is distressingly challenged by the invasion of Kursk oblast. I mean, obviously, the Russian cause is just! The Russian army is mighty and indomitable! How can it be that these inferior Ukranians have been be on sacred Russian soil for a month? Why haven't they been humiliated and expelled?
These internal inconsistencies cause you stress. Hence, you have to create narratives to reduce the internal pain. It may comfort you that this phenomenon, cognitive dissonance, has been well understood for almost 70 years. As I wrote previously, the best short term therapy is probably deep breathing...not much else you can do that will alleviate your pain.You have zero understanding of what is going on at the battlefields and that's why you post nonsense. Stick to punting. The events on the battlefield will unfold on their own and the reality will be before everyone in the future, no one has to take my word or anyone else's for that matter.
As for the corrupt actor, his term expired earlier this year. He has run away from holding elections like the coward that he is. Countries have held elections during war time, so don't give me that argument. And I have never praised Russia for being a shining democracy either.Again, dodging the reality of the Orc regime and focusing on UA.
You can't talk about democracy when you haven't experienced it.
John Clayton
09-01-24, 17:23
You have zero understanding of what is going on at the battlefields and that's why you post nonsense. Stick to punting. The events on the battlefield will unfold on their own and the reality will be before everyone in the future, no one has to take my word or anyone else's for that matter.Sorry, I was just trying to help you through this. I hope you feel better.
Again, dodging the reality of the Orc regime and focusing on UA.
You can't talk about democracy when you haven't experienced it.I didn't talk about democracy, you did. Fact of the matter is that Ukraine isn't the shining example of democracy that it claims to be, it is anything but that.
I didn't talk about democracy, you did. Fact of the matter is that Ukraine isn't the shining example of democracy that it claims to be, it is anything but that.You are constantly harping on about the current political situation in Ukraine, which is in a state of war, I'll remind you that the European democracies didn't have elections during wartime either, for the exact same reasons. Meanwhile you hold up the Orcs are paragons of reasonableness. Deal with your own hypocrisy first before weighing in here.
Completely unhinged.
You are constantly harping on about the current political situation in Ukraine, which is in a state of war, I'll remind you that the European democracies didn't have elections during wartime either, for the exact same reasons. Meanwhile you hold up the Orcs are paragons of reasonableness. Deal with your own hypocrisy first before weighing in here.
Completely unhinged.You obviously are unaware of the fact that many countries have held elections while at war.
You obviously are unaware of the fact that many countries have held elections while at war.Who are these countries and when did they do it?
UK didn't have elections during WW2 for example, and for good reason.
You obviously are unaware of the fact that many countries have held elections while at war.Why don't you name countries that have gone through general elections while the enemy troops were occupying huge chunks of their territory?
I can see this is emotionally very difficult for you. It is impossible to recognize when you're in, and a victim of, a religion or a cult until there is a catastrophic event that forces you awake. For eighty years the Russians have very effectively created the self actualizing myth about themselves. Russia can never be defeated in battle. The Russian people are strong. We Russians single handedly defeated the Nazis. Our great grandfathers were heroes who nobly sacrificed themselves for the Motherland. We were the heroes of WWII. Russian soldiers are strong. The Russian army is the greatest in the world. We are great, we are powerful -- and yet we are victims! The West is evil and conspires against us. Ukraine (and Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Finland) is (are) a weak and degenerate country ruled by nazis. And Ukraine is not a real country anyway. Ukranians are slavs like us, but not exactly like us since they are stupid, craven and weak, and needless to say we will defeat them in a week. By right and history Ukraine is part of Russia. The Ukranians will welcome us as liberators! Crimea is an integral part of Russia. Russia is a mighty country and no one can defeat us, and blah blah blah.
It is all a pack of lies. Russians have been fed disinformation, propaganda, bullshit and lies for eighty years. Surely, on some level (and having access to news from around the world), you must realize that you have been fed a bowlful of total bullshit for your entire life. The truth is Russia did not wage a noble war in WWII -- it was a vile war of territorial aggrandizement, which oppressed and terrorized free people for the subsequent forty years. In 1992, Russia lost 40% of its GDP and manufacturing base when Ukraine left...and that's exactly what you're fighting against now. Russia is not great. It is not powerful. Its GDP is the same as Mexico's. You have a rotting, corrupt, incompetent armed forces with rotting planes, ships and missiles, manned by alcoholics, prisioners and conscripts. Mexico could beat Russia.
Okay, mister all wise, super experienced, military guy. Let's make a bet. When are the Russians going to kick the Ukranians out of Kursk? A week, a month, a year? When? Place your bet. As I said in the first sentence, I know this is hard for you. Tell me, when you see videos of the M1126 ICV's just f!cking ravaging behind your lines, what does that make you feel? Does it make you confident in the power and might of the Russian army. Or maybe, do you feel the teeny tiniest bit of doubt?The Russians I know are decent people.
I don't believe you and other esteemed posters are cult members. But if you want to make that analogy, then those who've been continually proclaiming since the end of 2022 that Ukraine was on the cusp of driving the Russians back to pre-2014 territorial boundaries sound a bit like some of the fundamentalist Christians who believe the end times are always just around the corner. Ukraine will not win this war, because NATO countries will not provide the men, munitions and materials to get the job done. Unless their leaders are nuts. We do not want to see the USA, Britain, France and Russia engaged in all out war.
In the meantime, hundreds of thousands, Ukrainians and Russians, have continued to die, and Ukraine's negotiating strength has diminished.
What the hell do the west and the Ukrainian government want? Masada or the Alamo on a massive scale? A fight to the last Ukrainian? That's just sad.
What I'm reading in mainstream publications, like the NYT and the Economist, would indicate Ukraine's recent setbacks in the Donbas will be far more important to the outcome of this war than the occupation of part of the Kursk oblast.
Who are these countries and when did they do it?You're kidding, right?
Why don't you name countries that have gone through general elections while the enemy troops were occupying huge chunks of their territory?
That's not what he said. But Cyprus, the Republic of China, South Korea and Ireland come to mind.
John Clayton
09-03-24, 05:44
The Russians I know are decent people...Could be true, but the Russian Empire has maintained itself and prospered by oppressing its own and conquered peoples for over five hundred years. This is a war of territorial aggrandizement. If you or the decent Russians are concerned about Ukranian lives, then simply end the war by withdrawing to internationally recognized borders.
If you or the decent Russians are concerned about Ukranian lives, then simply end the war by withdrawing to internationally recognized borders.Please gentlemen, neither the Russians I know, nor Blood Red, Questner, DramaFree, Elvis or I have any control whatsoever over Russian leaders or the Russian military. Please try not to lose your grip on reality.
What the hell do the west and the Ukrainian government want? Masada or the Alamo on a massive scale? A fight to the last Ukrainian? That's just sad.
.Llyod Austin, the American Defense Secretary answered this question over 2 years ago, but I think none of the Pro Ukrainians paid attention. He said and I repeat, the goal of the United States aka NATO aka the collective West was to make Russia weak. He said nothing about Ukraine winning. He knows Ukraine cannot win.
They do not give a shit about the fact that Ukraine is getting completely wrecked. They do not care that entire generations in Ukraine are getting wiped out. They do not care that Ukraine is undergoing a demographic death. As long as Russia bleeds and they get their lucrative reconstruction contracts (Blackrock) and as long as European and Americans don't die, it's all good. Like I said many times before, these people are pure evil, and I hope God never forgives them.
Could be true, but the Russian Empire has maintained itself and prospered by oppressing its own and conquered peoples for over five hundred years. This is a war of territorial aggrandizement. If you or the decent Russians are concerned about Ukranian lives, then simply end the war by withdrawing to internationally recognized borders.While you're at it, please ask the Turks to withdraw from Cyprus, the Israelis from Palestine, the Americans from Syria. For starters.
While you're at it, please ask the Turks to withdraw from Cyprus, the Israelis from Palestine, the Americans from Syria. For starters.Completely irrelevant. You are rabidly supporting the Orcs, whilst ignoring basic sense.
as long as European and Americans don't die, it's all good.If Ukraine loses, Europeans and Americans will die in the next conflict which the Orcs will definitely initiate.
Please gentlemen, neither the Russians I know, nor Blood Red, Questner, DramaFree, Elvis or I have any control whatsoever over Russian leaders or the Russian military. Please try not to lose your grip on reality.Ukraine is winning. That's their grip on reality.
The elections in Kursk region to elect a governor to start on September 8, 2024. I have an explanation on what has led to the events, but won't post it. It will take time until everything will be clear and there are reasons for it, and you can get an answer on a probability scale, but anyway it only accelerates the collapse of the junta in Kiev.
Please gentlemen, neither the Russians I know, nor Blood Red, Questner, DramaFree, Elvis or I have any control whatsoever over Russian leaders or the Russian military. Please try not to lose your grip on reality.It's telling that you've finally found yourself in the eclectic group of propagandists, war mongers, and useful idiots supporting the Russian genocidal war effort.
You're kidding, right?
That's not what he said. I thought we were talking about Ukraine in this forum. Why even mention any elections anywhere in the world if they have no relevance to the current situation in Ukraine?
But Cyprus, the Republic of China, South Korea and Ireland come to mind. Really? When did these elections take place?
Llyod Austin, the American Defense Secretary answered this question over 2 years ago, but I think none of the Pro Ukrainians paid attention. He said and I repeat, the goal of the United States aka NATO aka the collective West was to make Russia weak. He said nothing about Ukraine winning. He knows Ukraine cannot win.This stuff can backfire. Look at American support for the Mujahideen during the strife between the USSR and Afghanistan. I don't know the history of that very well, but suspect the USA was arming some of the same people that it fought years later. So then in retaliation the USSR or Russia supports U.S. enemies, and it just escalates.
It's nuts. When I was a kid, I loved James Bond movies. And my favorites were when the USSR or Russia and MI6 and the CIA were working together to battle criminal masterminds looking to destroy humanity. That's the way it should be, with Russia, NATO and Ukraine all on the same page. There was an opportunity for that to happen back in the 1990's. And perhaps again when Trump was president. What others call ass kissing, I call smart diplomacy. Trump had some huge failings, but breaking away from the neoconservative agenda was not one of them.
Well, maybe someday.
Ukraine is winning. That's their grip on reality.Ukraine is not winning yet. But Russia's already lost.
Over 1,200 square kilometers of Kursk Region and 100 settlements taken in 3 weeks!
Where is a guerilla war? Where are Molotov cocktails? Where are skirmishes? There are none.
Russian marauders are looting stores and homes in Kursk, while the AFU are supplying the populace with food and basic needs items.
Russian civilians are greeting AFU as liberators, speaking Ukrainian, wishing them luck, and yelling Glory to Ukraine.
What a country!
This stuff can backfire. Look at USA Support for the Mujahideen during the strife between the USSR and Afghanistan. I don't know the history of that very well, but suspect the USA was arming some of the same people that it fought years later. So then in retaliation the USSR or Russia supports USA Enemies, and it just escalates. It's nuts. When I was a kid, I loved James Bond movies. And my favorites were when the USSR or Russia and MI6 and the CIA were working together to battle criminal masterminds looking to destroy humanity. That's the way it should be, with Russia, NATO and Ukraine all on the same page. There was an opportunity for that to happen back in the 1990's. And perhaps again when Trump was president. What others call ass kissing, I call smart diplomacy. Trump had some huge failings, but breaking away from the neoconservative agenda was not one of them.
Well, maybe someday.Jesus Christ, you're a child!
There was an opportunity for that to happen back in the 1990's. I agree that there was a missed opportunity here before a KGB agent became president, once a KGB agent was elevated to president, that window was closed permanently.
And perhaps again when Trump was president. What others call ass kissing, I call smart diplomacy. Trump had some huge failings, but breaking away from the neoconservative agenda was not one of them.
Well, maybe someday.Trump is a Russian client, so if by reset of relations you mean that Russia gets carte blanche to do what it always has done, then sure, but no one in Europe wants that.
If Ukraine loses, Europeans and Americans will die in the next conflict which the Orcs will definitely initiate.That's another lie that gullible people like you swallow. Russia has no interest in attacking any European country and it won't. The Ukraine NATO issue was a red line and it was clearly communicated since 2008 and was ignored.
Completely irrelevant. You are rabidly supporting the Orcs, whilst ignoring basic sense.Yes, I am on Russia's side against NATO. This is a war between Russia and NATO. NATO is pure evil. It is not a defensive alliance. It is an imperialistic offensive alliance which has caused destruction everywhere it has gone in the last few decades (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Syria and now Ukraine).
This stuff can backfire. Look at American support for the Mujahideen during the strife between the USSR and Afghanistan. I don't know the history of that very well, but suspect the USA was arming some of the same people that it fought years later. So then in retaliation the USSR or Russia supports U.S. enemies, and it just escalates.
.American hypocrisy knows no limits. America armed and funded and trained Al Qaida in the 80's against the Russians. Ronald Reagon compared them to America's founding Fathers when they visited the White House in the 80's. They were the good guys back then, Bin Ladin and co. And then they became terrorists in the 90's and onwards.
And you are absolutely right. Just like America can arm and use Ukraine as a proxy against Russia, Russia can do the same in latin America, in the middle east and in Africa, and it is already happening.
Ukraine is not winning yet. But Russia's already lost.
Over 1,200 square kilometers of Kursk Region and 100 settlements taken in 3 weeks!
Where is a guerilla war? Where are Molotov cocktails? Where are skirmishes? There are none.
Russian marauders are looting stores and homes in Kursk, while the AFU are supplying the populace with food and basic needs items.
Russian civilians are greeting AFU as liberators, speaking Ukrainian, wishing them luck, and yelling Glory to Ukraine.
What a country!Pay attention to what is happening in the Donbas, where the war is being fought. You can enjoy the Kursk PR stunt while it lasts. The Bandera terrorists there will all the killed, make no mistake about it.
And yes, I know what your off ramp will be once Ukraine loses the war. It will be go something like this, try not to laugh folks but I guarantee it will look like this: Russia lost because Ukraine still exists as a country, because they didn't take Kiev. It won't matter to them that Russia will probably take all of what is east of the Dniper plus Odessa. This will be their off ramp. Russia has already lost. Yeah. LOL. I can't believe such delusional people exist. Or stupid. Take your pick. I think it's a combo of both to be honest.
Jesus Christ, you're a child!That's a low blow. You have no basis for your accusation. I am an adult and at least 18 years of age. I have not violated the terms of service of The International Sex Guide.
Russian civilians are greeting AFU as liberators, speaking Ukrainian, wishing them luck, and yelling Glory to Ukraine.
Sure they are
That's a low blow. You have no basis for your accusation. I am an adult and at least 18 years of age. I have not violated the terms of service of The International Sex Guide.
Sure they areOf course they are. Don't forget: Ukraine is winning.
DramaFree11
09-05-24, 15:31
Pay attention to what is happening in the Donbas, where the war is being fought. You can enjoy the Kursk PR stunt while it lasts. The Bandera terrorists there will all the killed, make no mistake about it.
And yes, I know what your off ramp will be once Ukraine loses the war. It will be go something like this, try not to laugh folks but I guarantee it will look like this: Russia lost because Ukraine still exists as a country, because they didn't take Kiev. It won't matter to them that Russia will probably take all of what is east of the Dniper plus Odessa. This will be their off ramp. Russia has already lost. Yeah. LOL. I can't believe such delusional people exist. Or stupid. Take your pick. I think it's a combo of both to be honest.XMan does not deal in reality, he lives in a liberal fantasy world. Ukraine is getting their ass kicked.
How Ukraine army keeps going I have no idea. I give the Ukraine army credit, but you have to ask is it worth it, they are slowly getting destroyed.
Pay attention to what is happening in the Donbas, where the war is being fought. You can enjoy the Kursk PR stunt while it lasts. The Bandera terrorists there will all the killed, make no mistake about it.My dear, the war is being fought on 600+ miles of the frontline, but I am paying attention to Donbas. My understanding is that Putin's advance has slowed down there, no? What's your latest (as of today, not a week ago)?
That's a low blow. You have no basis for your accusation. I am an adult and at least 18 years of age. I have not violated the terms of service of The International Sex Guide.Well, Kumbaya then.
Like I said: Ukraine isn't winning yet, but Russia has already lost.
Paul Schwennesen.
A front-line report from the Kursk offensive reveals that in the battle for hearts and minds, Ukraines resolve outpaces Russias crumbling morale, signaling an inevitable conclusion.
https://reason.com/2024/09/05/the-war-in-ukraine-is-already-over-russia-just-doesnt-know-it-yet
Wars end long before armistices are signed. A war's end, after all, is a matter of will, of spiritand popular will is only haltingly, grudgingly reflected in the political machinery of peace talks.
Though it may seem astonishingly premature to say so, my impression after returning from the Russian front is that the war in Ukraine is over and that the powers that be haven't realized it yet. In the Kursk salient, at least, I can personally attest to the eerie, almost surreal inversion of spirits between the people of Ukraine and Russia. The moral scales have now firmly settled on the side of the Ukrainian defenders, and it is far likelier that Russia itself splinters into its constituent republics than that Ukraine falls to its erstwhile invaders.
[b]I was in Irpin and Bucha nearly three years ago, while they were still smoldering from Russian occupation. The mood then, as we pulled burned bodies with bound hands from the tree lines, was a tragedy-enforced grim determination. Evidence of Ukrainian resistance was everywhere: crates of Molotov cocktails on street corners, invective-laced messages scrawled on storefronts, spent shell casings piled behind makeshift barriers against the intrudersall of it unequivocally pointing to a deep-seated resolve. .
My dear, the war is being fought on 600+ miles of the frontline, but I am paying attention to Donbas. My understanding is that Putin's advance has slowed down there, no? What's your latest (as of today, not a week ago)?
As usual, your understanding is shit. I will point you to an extremely biased PRO UKRAINIAN source, the New York Times. Even they are admitting that due to the Kursk incursion, Ukraine diverted some of their best battle-hardened troops from the Donbas and to Kursk. That is the reason the Russians are making faster advances there than they have been for the past 3 months. If anything has slowed down, it is the Kursk advance. Try to keep up and don't mix things up. But that is easy to do I guess when you have zero understanding about what is happening on the ground.
XMan does not deal in reality, he lives in a liberal fantasy world. Ukraine is getting their ass kicked.
How Ukraine army keeps going I have no idea. I give the Ukraine army credit, but you have to ask is it worth it, they are slowly getting destroyed.I'll be the first one to give the AFU credit, they are fierce warriors, no denying that. But they are fighting a war they just cannot win, and yes, they will end up getting destroyed and Ukraine will become a dysfunctional, rump state. Yes, it will still exist on the map and that will be the off ramp for NATO and the pro Ukrainian tools here, that Ukraine still exists and Putin didn't succeed in his goal to take ALL of Ukraine (he has never wanted to do that, he is just interested in what is east of the Dniper + Odessa, historically Russian regions) and hence Russia lost. Pathetic and comical really.
John Clayton
09-05-24, 19:36
As usual, your understanding is shit...But that is easy to do I guess when you have zero understanding about what is happening on the ground. FYI, an ad hominem is a hallmark of a losing argument. I don't know what you're getting out of this but, as I wrote previously, you should try to imagine Russian defeat. Answer me this, when you see videos of the Marder and Bradley IFVs just savaging around in the sacred Russian motherland, what do you feel?
Like I said: Ukraine isn't winning yet, but Russia has already lost.
Paul Schwennesen.
A front-line report from the Kursk offensive reveals that in the battle for hearts and minds, Ukraines resolve outpaces Russias crumbling morale, signaling an inevitable conclusion.
https://reason.com/2024/09/05/the-war-in-ukraine-is-already-over-russia-just-doesnt-know-it-yetI don't know if it were the mods who cut it down or something else happened, but if it were the mods, I'd like to emphasize that by cutting it after the first paragraph, you totally erased the message. Yes, I do understand that people can click on the link, but we all know they rarely do.
Whether my post got botched accidentally or if the mods found it too long, I'm cutting it further for the most important parts.
I was in Irpin and Bucha nearly three years ago, while they were still smoldering from Russian occupation. The mood then, as we pulled burned bodies with bound hands from the tree lines, was a tragedy-enforced grim determination. Evidence of Ukrainian resistance was everywhere: crates of Molotov cocktails on street corners, invective-laced messages scrawled on storefronts, spent shell casings piled behind makeshift barriers against the intrudersall of it unequivocally pointing to a deep-seated resolve.
In Russia today, it is entirely differentit is a moral vacuum. Its citizens in Kursk fled the Ukrainian advance like smoke in the wind, leaving homes and possessions without so much as a whimper. I saw exactly one makeshift roadblock, consisting of a few chairs and a rake. Russian civil resistance is (or was) desultory at best. The comparison is stark: Despite Russia's enormous advantages in mass and material, the will to fight is fundamentally absent.
Ukrainian morale, meanwhile, is topping the chartsbordering on euphoria even. A fervent passion for taking the fight to their enemies has infected the front and operations are conducted amid a general scrum of units desperate to be part of the action... In Russia, there is silence. Of the tiny handful of remaining civilians in the Kursk area, some eagerly interact with the occupiers while the rest furtively attend to their habitual routines.
The action in Kursk is a reminder to Westerners that the Russian behemoth is far from a monolithic, integrated federation. It is instead a tentative, demoralized, loosely adhered tissue of a nation, held together primarily through fear and learned dependence on the state. Separatist sentiment, never fully extinguished, is rising rapidly in regions like Chechnya and Karelia and across some 85 other autonomous regions spanning 11 time zones, most of which have long traditions of independence.
Leo Tolstoy famously wrote of the Russian army: "This horde is not an army because it possesses neither any real loyalty to faith, tsar and fatherlandwords that have been so much misused!nor valour, nor military dignity. All it possesses are, on the one hand, passive patience and repressed discontent, and on the other, cruelty, servitude and corruption." Things have not appreciably improved since.
Russia's incursion into Ukraine has simply run out of moral impetus. It has the resources, of course, to engage in a substantial amount of lingering mayhem. No doubt it will. But the Ukrainians I've met simply cannot envisage a scenario in which they lose. They are prepared to fight in the streets to the last man, and their commitment to freedom is overwhelming. In contrast to the current Russian mood, which seems largely to be one of confused apathy, Ukrainians have the decided advantage.
Wars are won in the heart of a people, not through the rational calculations of military planners. While there is momentum left in the Russian war machine, it is only a matter of time before reality sinks in that the Russian heart is not in this fight. Whether the war ends in the shattering of its fragile federation or in some half-hearted armistice measures to mitigate its appalling losses, Russia simply cannot go on. The Kursk offensive, for all its complexities and contradictions, has, if nothing else, opened a clear window into the popular wills of each side.
XMan does not deal in reality, he lives in a liberal fantasy world. Ukraine is getting their ass kicked.
How Ukraine army keeps going I have no idea. I give the Ukraine army credit, but you have to ask is it worth it, they are slowly getting destroyed.The irony here.
AFU looting stores are on security cameras and AFU shooting and killing civilians are on dash cameras. I can post links. Unfortunately reliable. Few that were left behind are mostly elderly, disabled and bed patients. It takes 5-6 volunteers to take them out to safety one by one through wooded areas. The other task is to untie pets and safe livestock. This is one of the reasons why a broader operation has not been taken yet.
As for arming civilians, Ukraine had disastrous outcome with arming territorial defense, which was wiped out in numbers at the outset of the SMO.
AFU looting stores are on security cameras and AFU shooting and killing civilians are on dash cameras. I can post links. Unfortunately reliable. Few that were left behind are mostly elderly, disabled and bed patients. It takes 5-6 volunteers to take them out to safety one by one through wooded areas. The other task is to untie pets and safe livestock. This is one of the reasons why a broader operation has not been taken yet.
As for arming civilians, Ukraine had disastrous outcome with arming territorial defense, which was wiped out in numbers at the outset of the SMO.How can you tell an Orc is lying? His lips are moving.
John Clayton
09-06-24, 15:43
... I can post links...Okay, post the links. This is paid Russian disinformation. It continues to amaze me that their efforts extend to an obscure forum like this one.
I thought we were talking about Ukraine in this forum. Why even mention any elections anywhere in the world if they have no relevance to the current situation in Ukraine?
Really? When did these elections take place?This is the question you posed:
Why don't you name countries that have gone through general elections while the enemy troops were occupying huge chunks of their territory?Well, I guess I could have replied in the Cyprus, Korea, China, Taiwan and Ireland threads and PM'ed you, but that wouldn't make much sense.
Free elections in Cyprus and South Korea proceeded when Turks, North Koreans and Chinese were actively fighting and have proceeded to this day. Lots and lots of elections (one party elections in PRC) occur in Taiwan and the PRC, and each claims the other is occupying its territory. The PRC is occupying a huge chunk of territory claimed by Taiwan. I believe Ireland claimed Northern Ireland until about 1999, and there were many free elections in Ireland.
Thanks for the Reason link. As you'd suspect, I often take what they publish seriously. In this instance I believe the writer is a bit over the top. As to some Russians leaving Kursk is it because they don't want to live under Ukrainian rule? And as to some Ukrainians staying put in Donbas, is it because they prefer Russian rule?
I don't know if it were the mods who cut it down or something else happenedIt was probably you just being you (a dumbass).
This is the question you posed:
Well, I guess I could have replied in the Cyprus, Korea, China, Taiwan and Ireland threads and PM'ed you, but that wouldn't make much sense.
Free elections in Cyprus and South Korea proceeded when Turks, North Koreans and Chinese were actively fighting and have proceeded to this day. Lots and lots of elections (one party elections in PRC) occur in Taiwan and the PRC, and each claims the other is occupying its territory. The PRC is occupying a huge chunk of territory claimed by Taiwan. I believe Ireland claimed Northern Ireland until about 1999, and there were many free elections in Ireland.Were there active wars raging while they held elections in these countries? Were situations in this countries even remotely comparable to the current situation in Ukraine? Or is it just you sharpening your sophistry skills?
And thank you for including such beacons of democracy as North Korea ad China. Nice touch.
Thanks for the Reason link. As you'd suspect, I often take what they publish seriously. In this instance I believe the writer is a bit over the top.Of course, he does. Good thing, Blood Red isn't.
AFU looting stores are on security cameras and AFU shooting and killing civilians are on dash cameras. I can post links. Unfortunately reliable.Pretty please, with cherry on top, LOL.
My dear, the war is being fought on 600+ miles of the frontline, but I am paying attention to Donbas. My understanding is that Putin's advance has slowed down there, no? What's your latest (as of today, not a week ago)?Still waiting for your response. Why the delay?
It was probably you just being you (a dumbass).Even more reasons to educate me. How are things around Pokrovsk (again -- today, not a week ago)?
Free elections in Cyprus and South Korea proceeded when Turks, North Koreans and Chinese were actively fighting and have proceeded to this day. Lots and lots of elections (one party elections in PRC) occur in Taiwan and the PRC, and each claims the other is occupying its territory. The PRC is occupying a huge chunk of territory claimed by Taiwan. I believe Ireland claimed Northern Ireland until about 1999, and there were many free elections in Ireland.
Thanks for the Reason link. As you'd suspect, I often take what they publish seriously. In this instance I believe the writer is a bit over the top. As to some Russians leaving Kursk is it because they don't want to live under Ukrainian rule? And as to some Ukrainians staying put in Donbas, is it because they prefer Russian rule?They did not have free elections while there was a full on kinetic war going on. Also, don't use dictatorships as examples, since they are not "free" elections, e. G. PRC or Mordor. Do you have any other examples?
As for people staying put, they may not have anywhere else to go, it cannot be concluded that they love the Orcs and want them to rule over them, steal their kids and rape their women.
As for Russians leaving Kursk, if a full on kinetic war is coming to your doorstep and you have the Orcs sending missiles willy nilly without caring about civilian casualties, it might be a good idea to relocate if you have the opportunity.
Still waiting for your response. Why the delay?
Even more reasons to educate me. How are things around Pokrovsk (again -- today, not a week ago)?It's a very difficult situation for AFU in the Donbas at the moment, in particular around Pokrovsk and Ugledar, plus Toretsk. Pokrovsk will fall no doubt, wait for it.
They did not have free elections while there was a full on kinetic war going on. Also, don't use dictatorships as examples, since they are not "free" elections, e. G. PRC or Mordor. Do you have any other examples?
Were there active wars raging while they held elections in these countries? Were situations in this countries even remotely comparable to the current situation in Ukraine? Or is it just you sharpening your sophistry skills?
And thank you for including such beacons of democracy as North Korea ad China. Nice touch.
Of course, he does. Good thing, Blood Red isn't.Yes, wars were ongoing when Greek Cyprus and South Korea held free elections. In my first post on this subject, I only mentioned the Republic of China (Taiwan), which admittedly might not have been a democracy at the time fighting was occuring, and later pointed out the PRC held one party elections. And never held up North Korea as an example. I said North Korea was occupying land claimed by South Korea, during the Korean war and afterwards.
The fighting has stopped, but I don't think you can argue that Taiwan isn't a democracy, and doesn't officially claim the Chinese mainland.
Yes, wars were ongoing when Greek Cyprus and South Korea held free elections. In my first post on this subject, I only mentioned the Republic of China (Taiwan), which admittedly might not have been a democracy at the time fighting was occuring, and later pointed out the PRC held one party elections. And never held up North Korea as an example. I said North Korea was occupying land claimed by South Korea, during the Korean war and afterwards.
The fighting has stopped, but I don't think you can argue that Taiwan isn't a democracy, and doesn't officially claim the Chinese mainland.None of these were fighting kinetic wars at the time.
Cyprus is a sovereign nation so there was no kinetic war in Greece, nor Turkey at the time of elections.
You have no examples, because in general Nations don't have elections during war, they have bigger fish to fry.
Yes, wars were ongoing when Greek Cyprus and South Korea held free elections. In my first post on this subject, I only mentioned the Republic of China (Taiwan), which admittedly might not have been a democracy at the time fighting was occuring, and later pointed out the PRC held one party elections. And never held up North Korea as an example. I said North Korea was occupying land claimed by South Korea, during the Korean war and afterwards.
The fighting has stopped, but I don't think you can argue that Taiwan isn't a democracy, and doesn't officially claim the Chinese mainland.It is, but it wasn't a democracy until the 80's. Neither was South Korea. When, in what years, did these elections take place?
I also read up on Cyprus and didn't find any mentioning of any elections during the Turkish invasion (until 1974 when the ceasefire was signed). So please explain what you mean.
It is, but it wasn't a democracy until the 80's. Neither was South Korea. When, in what years, did these elections take place?
I also read up on Cyprus and didn't find any mentioning of any elections during the Turkish invasion (until 1974 when the ceasefire was signed). So please explain what you mean.You can debate whether the 1952 presidential election in South Korea was free and fair. I think Syngman Rhee probably did legitimately win the election, although the way he got the constitution modified so he could run again in the first place wasn't exactly democratic. The numerous local, regional and parliamentary elections held in 1952 probably were free and fair.
You're right about Cyprus. The Turkish incursion didn't take very long, and occurred between elections.
You kind of moved the goal posts, as initially you only asked us to name countries where enemy troops were occupying large chunks of territory. You didn't say at first there had to be ongoing fighting.
John Clayton
09-08-24, 19:14
... Pokrovsk will fall no doubt, wait for it.How is this prediction aging?
How is this prediction aging?You're an idiot that has zero understanding of battle. Check how long it took for Soledar to fall, and then Bakhmut, and then Avdivka. These were / are all heavily fortified cities, like Pokrovsk. I didn't give a time line but as I said, Pokrovsk will fall. This is a war of attrition. Stuff you do not understand. Stick to punting.
You kind of moved the goal posts, as initially you only asked us to name countries where enemy troops were occupying large chunks of territory. You didn't say at first there had to be ongoing fighting.Of course he did. I had just said that 'countries have held elections during wartime'. Which is a fact. Another fact is that Zelensky's mandate expired a while back. Now he is nothing more than a dictator. The latest purge and shakeup of his cabinet is further proof because now more of his cronies will get the top posts. His end will be similar to Ashaf Ghani's. Then I wonder what all the fools that consider that corrupt clown a hero will say.
You kind of moved the goal posts, as initially you only asked us to name countries where enemy troops were occupying large chunks of territory. You didn't say at first there had to be ongoing fighting.You implied that it is normal for countries to have elections while fighting wars, but could not even find one example that is similar to the situation in Ukraine.
During kinetic wars, countries don't have elections, so stop pushing the Orc narratives direct from the Kremlin.
Of course he did. I had just said that 'countries have held elections during wartime'. Which is a fact. Another fact is that Zelensky's mandate expired a while back. Now he is nothing more than a dictator. The latest purge and shakeup of his cabinet is further proof because now more of his cronies will get the top posts. His end will be similar to Ashaf Ghani's. Then I wonder what all the fools that consider that corrupt clown a hero will say.Tell us about Putin's mandate and how he represents the will of the Russian people, since you are such an expert on democracy and legitimacy.
You might have to start looking for new work now that your job with Tenet media is ending.
Tell us about Putin's mandate and how he represents the will of the Russian people, since you are such an expert on democracy and legitimacy.
You might have to start looking for new work now that your job with Tenet media is ending.I have never said Russia is a shining example of a democracy, show me where I did. But my comments about the corrupt actor are correct. History will not judge this greedy **** kindly; he took Ukraine down the primrose path after campaigning on a platform for peace.
You implied that it is normal for countries to have elections while fighting wars, but could not even find one example that is similar to the situation in Ukraine.
During kinetic wars, countries don't have elections, so stop pushing the Orc narratives direct from the Kremlin.I should take this back to my Orc handlers but think I can handle it on my own. What's a kinetic war?
You and / or Xpartan asked for an example of a country that conducted elections while a hostile force held part of a country. I came back with several. I offered no opinion on whether Ukraine should or shouldn't hold elections. All you should have done is come back and say it's unconstitutional for elections to be held in Ukraine when its under martial law, instead of doubling down on an unsupportable position.
I do believe elections during war time are a good idea. I'm a pacifist and believe military and political elites sometimes continue wars when the majority of the populace doesn't want to send their young men off to die any longer. Elections are a good way to make the elites accountable. The lines between Russia and Ukraine have moved very little since November of 2022. There's no good reason other than the constitution why it shouldn't have held elections.
As to your post, why is South Korea not a good example of your and Xpartan's latest request, for a country that held elections while at war and while a hostile force held part of its claimed territory?
Here are some more examples. I can come back with a lot more now that I have a paid subscription to ChatGPT!
France (1940's) - During World War II, parts of France were occupied by Nazi Germany, but elections were held by the French Resistance in liberated areas.
Vietnam (1956) - Vietnam, divided into North and South, held separate elections while foreign forces were present, particularly French and USA Forces in the south and Chinese forces aiding the North.
Afghanistan (2004,2009, 2014) - Afghanistan held elections while parts of the country were under the control of Taliban forces and USA Military operations were ongoing.
Iraq (2005) - Iraq held parliamentary elections while USA And coalition forces were present, and parts of the country were contested by insurgent groups.
Ukraine (2014,2019) - Ukraine has held multiple elections since 2014 while Russia occupied Crimea and parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Georgia (2008) - Georgia held elections while Russian forces occupied the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
Israel (1948) - Israel held its first national elections in 1949 shortly after declaring independence in 1948, during the Arab-Israeli War, when several Arab states occupied parts of what is now Israel.
Lebanon (1972,1992, 2009) Lebanon held elections while parts of the country were occupied by Syrian forces and during the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon (until 2000).
Bosnia and Herzegovina (1996) After the Bosnian War (19921995), the country held elections while NATO-led peacekeeping forces (IFOR and later SFOR) were deployed, and the Serb Republic (Republika Srpska) had de facto control over part of the territory.
Palestinian Territories (2006) The Palestinian legislative elections were held while Israel occupied the West Bank and blockaded Gaza.
Cyprus (1974 onward) Cyprus has held elections since the Turkish invasion in 1974, during which Turkey took control of the northern part of the island, leading to the creation of the unrecognized Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
East Timor (1999) East Timor held a referendum on independence from Indonesia while the country was occupied by Indonesian forces. This led to violence and intervention by international peacekeeping forces.
Kuwait (1992) Kuwait held elections after the Gulf War, during which Iraqi forces occupied the country. Although the occupation had ended by the time of the election, the post-war context was shaped by the invasion and occupation.
West Germany (1949) West Germany (Federal Republic of Germany) held its first elections while parts of the country were under Allied occupation following World War II.
Kosovo (2001) After the Kosovo War and the withdrawal of Serbian forces, Kosovo held elections under international administration by the United Nations while NATO forces were still present.
Congo (DRC) (2006) The Democratic Republic of the Congo held elections while foreign forces from Rwanda, Uganda, and other regional players had intervened, and local militias controlled various parts of the country during the Second Congo War (19982003).
Mali (2013) After the 2012 rebellion in northern Mali and the intervention of French forces, elections were held while parts of the north remained under control of separatist and Islamist groups.
Nicaragua (1984) Nicaragua held elections during the Contra War, where USA -backed Contra rebels occupied and fought for control over parts of the country against the Sandinista government.
Sudan (2010) During Sudan's 2010 elections, conflict continued in the Darfur region, where insurgent groups occupied territories and rebelled against the central government.
Myanmar (Burma) (2010) While Myanmar held elections, parts of its territory were (and still are) controlled by ethnic insurgent groups and military forces involved in ongoing conflict.
Colombia (ongoing) Colombia has held multiple elections while parts of its territory were under the influence or control of guerrilla groups like the FARC and paramilitary forces.
Chechnya (2003) Chechnya, a region of Russia, held a constitutional referendum in 2003 while Russian forces were occupying the territory during the Second Chechen War, and separatist fighters still controlled parts of the republic.
Sri Lanka (1989,2000) Sri Lanka held elections while parts of the north and east of the country were under control of the Tamil Tigers (LTTE) during the country's civil war, which lasted until 2009.
Mozambique (1994) Mozambique held its first multiparty elections while some regions were still affected by the remnants of the civil war between RENAMO rebels and the FRELIMO government.
Eritrea (1993) Eritrea held a referendum on independence from Ethiopia while parts of the country were occupied by Ethiopian forces, and armed conflict was ongoing in certain areas.
Northern Ireland (1969 onwards) Elections continued in Northern Ireland during "The Troubles" (19691998), a period of conflict where parts of the territory experienced violence and were under military occupation or heavy security presence by British forces.
Ivory Coast (2010) Ivory Coast held disputed elections in 2010 during which parts of the country were controlled by forces loyal to incumbent President Laurent Gbagbo and those loyal to his opponent Alassane Ouattara, leading to a civil conflict and eventual foreign intervention by UN and French forces.
Western Sahara (ongoing) While Morocco occupies much of Western Sahara, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, which claims the territory, has held elections for its government in exile since 1976, with the support of some international communities.
Tibet (1950's) After China's occupation of Tibet in 1950, the Tibetan government-in-exile, led by the Dalai Lama, has held elections in exile. These elections occurred while China maintained control over the region.
South Sudan (2011) South Sudan held its independence referendum in 2011 while parts of the country were affected by conflict, particularly in regions where militias and armed groups were active, even as Sudanese forces withdrew after the vote.
Nagorno-Karabakh (ongoing) Elections have been held in Nagorno-Karabakh, an Armenian-majority region, despite the ongoing conflict with Azerbaijan and the presence of both Armenian and Azerbaijani forces in disputed territories.
Lebanon (2009) In addition to the 1972 and 1992 elections mentioned earlier, the 2009 elections in Lebanon occurred while parts of the country were still experiencing tensions with Hezbollah, and with Syrian influence still present in certain factions.
Donetsk and Luhansk (ongoing) Elections have been held in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics in Eastern Ukraine, areas controlled by pro-Russian separatists, even as Ukraine claims the territories and conflict with the Ukrainian government continues.
Somalia (2012,2017, 2022) Somalia has held several rounds of elections, though indirect, while large parts of the country were under the control of Al-Shabaab, a militant group, and with the involvement of foreign peacekeeping forces such as AMISOM (now ATMIS).
Chad (1989,1996, 2001) Chad held elections during periods when parts of the country were controlled by rebel groups, and there was involvement from foreign powers, particularly during the conflicts with Libya over the Aouzou Strip.
Ethiopia (2021) Ethiopia held elections while the Tigray region was in open conflict with the federal government. Portions of Tigray were occupied by federal and Eritrean forces during the conflict.
Serbia (1990's) During the breakup of Yugoslavia, Serbia held elections while parts of the territory of former Yugoslavia, including Kosovo, were involved in conflicts and controlled by different factions.
Cambodia (1993) Cambodia held elections under the supervision of the United Nations Transitional Authority in Cambodia (UNTAC) while Khmer Rouge forces controlled parts of the country.
El Salvador (1984) El Salvador held elections while parts of the country were controlled by guerrilla forces during the civil war between the government and the Farabundo Mart National Liberation Front (FMLN).
Greece (1946) Greece held elections in 1946 while parts of the country were under occupation by Axis forces during World War II and shortly before the outbreak of the Greek Civil War.
South Yemen (1967) South Yemen held elections after gaining independence from British rule, even as conflict persisted between rival factions and British forces were still withdrawing from Aden.
Ukraine (2015 local elections) In addition to national elections mentioned earlier, Ukraine held local elections in 2015, excluding territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Hungary (1945) Hungary held parliamentary elections in 1945 while under occupation by the Soviet Red Army at the end of World War II. The Soviet influence eventually led to the establishment of a communist regime.
Angola (1992) Angola held its first multiparty elections while parts of the country were still under control of the rebel group UNITA, leading to the resumption of civil war after the elections.
Libya (2012,2014) Libya held elections following the toppling of Muammar Gaddafi, but the country was still divided between various militias and regions, with foreign intervention from NATO and regional powers.
Burundi (2015) Burundi held elections during a period of political unrest and violence, with opposition groups boycotting the elections and some areas experiencing instability due to rebel activity.
Rwanda (2003) Rwanda held elections following the Rwandan Genocide, even as rebel groups continued to operate in parts of the country and the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Tunisia (2011) Tunisia held elections shortly after the Arab Spring revolution, while some areas still faced unrest and militant activity.
Yugoslavia (1945) The Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia held elections while parts of the country were under Allied military control and still recovering from World War II.
Chechnya (1997,2005) In addition to the 2003 referendum mentioned earlier, Chechnya held elections in 1997 and 2005, during periods of ongoing conflict between Russian forces and Chechen separatists.
Algeria (1958) Algeria held elections during the Algerian War of Independence, while French colonial forces occupied much of the country, and the National Liberation Front (FLN) controlled rural areas.
Northern Cyprus (1983, ongoing) The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, recognized only by Turkey, has held elections since its declaration of independence in 1983, despite the ongoing occupation and international dispute over the territory.
Papua New Guinea (1977) Papua New Guinea held elections while the Bougainville region was in conflict, which eventually escalated into the Bougainville Civil War. Bougainville later held its own referendum on independence in 2019.
Zimbabwe (1980) Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) held elections during the Lancaster House Agreement period while still under British oversight and with ongoing conflict between the government and guerrilla movements such as ZANU and ZAPU.
Liberia (2005) Liberia held elections in 2005 under the supervision of United Nations peacekeepers, following a civil war that had left parts of the country under the control of rebel factions.
Armenia (1992) Armenia held elections in the early 1990's while involved in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict with Azerbaijan, and parts of its borders were under military tension.
Czechoslovakia (1946) Czechoslovakia held elections in 1946 while under Soviet influence, with Soviet troops occupying parts of the country following World War II.
Syria (2014,2021) Syria has held elections during its ongoing civil war, with large portions of the country controlled by rebel forces, Kurdish factions, or foreign forces such as Russia and the United States.
I should take this back to my Orc handlers but think I can handle it on my own. What's a kinetic war?
You and / or Xpartan asked for an example of a country that conducted elections while a hostile force held part of a country. I came back with several. I offered no opinion on whether Ukraine should or shouldn't hold elections. All you should have done is come back and say it's unconstitutional for elections to be held in Ukraine when its under martial law, instead of doubling down on an unsupportable position.
I do believe elections during war time are a good idea. I'm a pacifist and believe military and political elites sometimes continue wars when the majority of the populace doesn't want to send their young men off to die any longer. Elections are a good way to make the elites accountable. The lines between Russia and Ukraine have moved very little since November of 2022. There's no good reason other than the constitution why it shouldn't have held elections.
As to your post, why is South Korea not a good example of your and Xpartan's latest request, for a country that held elections while at war and while a hostile force held part of its claimed territory?
None of those were held while there was a kinetic war (groan) Ask your good friend ChatGPT what a kinetic war is, as opposed to a cold war and or occupation.
You even included the "elections" in Donetsk and Luhansk (groan) Actually these were during a kinetic war, to be accurate. Tell us about these free and fair elections. You can check with your Orc handlers for a full "factsheet".
I have never said Russia is a shining example of a democracy, show me where I did. But my comments about the corrupt actor are correct. History will not judge this greedy **** kindly; he took Ukraine down the primrose path after campaigning on a platform for peace.Let me draw an analogy. You complain that one parent is scolding his child, all the while you're sucking off his neighbour who kills his own children and any other kid in the neighbourhood, and letting that go without so much as a mention.
The glaring omissions, and total blindness to any actual context in almost every post, makes it laughable when you assert that you are in a debate.
None of those were held while there was a kinetic war (groan) Ask your good friend ChatGPT what a kinetic war is, as opposed to a cold war and or occupation.
You even included the "elections" in Donetsk and Luhansk (groan) Actually these were during a kinetic war, to be accurate. Tell us about these free and fair elections. You can check with your Orc handlers for a full "factsheet".I found it! All I had to do was ask ChatGPT for VinDici's definition of a kinetic war! Here it is!
"A kinetic war is a euphemism for military action involving active warfare, including lethal force, exclusively conducted within the pre-2014 boundaries of Ukraine or within 100 kilometers of those boundaries. Currently any military action occurring out of that area is not a kinetic war. However the definition may be changed at the sole discretion of VinDici in any manner he chooses. ".
I'll pass that on to my Handlers in case this issue comes up again.
I found it! All I had to do was ask ChatGPT for VinDici's definition of a kinetic war! Here it is!
"A kinetic war is a euphemism for military action involving active warfare, including lethal force, exclusively conducted within the pre-2014 boundaries of Ukraine or within 100 kilometers of those boundaries. Currently any military action occurring out of that area is not a kinetic war. However the definition may be changed at the sole discretion of VinDici in any manner he chooses. ".
I'll pass that on to my Handlers in case this issue comes up again.Yes, the heroic pacifist that thinks peace should come from UA conceding everything, but won't consider the Orcs leaving Ukrainian territory as a solution.
Let me draw an analogy. You complain that one parent is scolding his child, all the while you're sucking off his neighbour who kills his own children and any other kid in the neighbourhood, and letting that go without so much as a mention.
The glaring omissions, and total blindness to any actual context in almost every post, makes it laughable when you assert that you are in a debate.I have condemned war crimes by both sides.
I have condemned war crimes by both sides.You rabidly comment on anything and everything UA, whilst ignoring or handwaving or deflecting (What about the US? What about what the EU is doing? Etc) the much worse and egregious actions of the Orcs. In addition you slavishly support he subjugation of a sovereign nation by a brutal dictatorship.
It's not possible to take you seriously, since there is no sensible discussion to be had when your position is completely unhinged and removed from the realities of the conflict.
You rabidly comment on anything and everything UA, whilst ignoring or handwaving or deflecting (What about the US? What about what the EU is doing? Etc) the much worse and egregious actions of the Orcs. In addition you slavishly support he subjugation of a sovereign nation by a brutal dictatorship.
It's not possible to take you seriously, since there is no sensible discussion to be had when your position is completely unhinged and removed from the realities of the conflict.I have made it crystal clear that I do not have a horse in this race. I have no love for Ukraine or Russia in that regard. I actually find both Ukrainians and Russians as cold.
I have stated many times that I understand why this conflict happened, when it started and how it started and who provoked it and made sure it happened. I despise NATO for what they have done (in Iraq, Yugoslavia, Yemen, Syria, Libya and now Ukraine) and are doing, it is an offensive hegemonic military war machine that wants to keep adding members so it can feed the you. S military industrial complex, because once a country joins NATO, its military has to conform to NATO standards. They knew inviting Ukraine to join NATO would trigger a major war but they did so anyway because they don't give a shit about the Ukrainian people, they are cannon fodder. It is about weaking Russia, they don't care that entire generations in Ukraine have been wiped out.
So yes, because of all these reasons, I am backing Russia, not because I have any love for Russia or Russians. I have also clearly said that I have nothing but respect and the utmost sympathy for ORDINARY Ukrainians who are suffering the most. Their 'leadership' is garbage. Zelensky is a corrupt liar who is reading from a script and pocketing billions. He is a curse for the Ukrainian people, just like NATO is. You will see how history judges this clown when it is written.
And this is a war that should NEVER EVER have happened, but NATO made sure it happened. You may not agree with what Russia did. Yes, it illegally invaded an independent country, no doubt about it. But what you need to understand is that Russia, much like the United States, is a great power. Great powers have red lines and they act when they are crossed or are about to get crossed. Kennedy would not tolerate Soviet missiles in Cuba. That was an American red line. Russia made it crystal clear that they would not tolerate NATO and NATO weapons in Ukraine. Read the famous memo from Bill Burns where he clearly states that Russia will not tolerate Ukraine in NATO from years ago.
Yes, the heroic pacifist that thinks peace should come from UA conceding everything, but won't consider the Orcs leaving Ukrainian territory as a solution.You will soon realize that Ukraine will indeed have to come to grips will reality and concede territory in exchange for peace. Of course they won't want to, but that is the reality.
And if Ukraine does not sign a peace deal by ceding territory, Russia is just going to grab more territory and keep what it has already captured and kill more and more AFU soldiers until Ukraine has had enough and can't keep fighting. Or until there is a collapse of AFU. In both those scenarios, you will end up with a frozen conflict similar to the 2 Koreas. Russia will keep the territory they have annexed and will very likely grab more and annex more. That in my opinion is the most likely outcome IMHO. So the sooner Ukraine negotiates, the better it will be for them.
In 2021, the peace terms before the war were very generous.
In Istanbul 2022 it was just the Donbas + Crimea + neutrality that was demanded.
Now it's the 4 new territories. It is Istanbul PLUS.
So it is in Ukraine's interest to sue for peace now.
John Clayton
09-11-24, 19:33
...So it is in Ukraine's interest to sue for peace now.The recent indictment of Russians accused of covertly funding a Tennessee media company is merely the tip of the iceberg of Russia's disinformation campaign. It's amazing that the Kremlin would spend $10 million on this one endeavor. The "influencers" were paid $400 k per month to recycle FSB propaganda. These efforts filter down even to an obscure forum like this.
My question to the Russian trolls on this forum is, how much are you paid? Are you jealous of the American stooges who were paid $400,000 per month? (Can you use this information to increase your own salary?
I have made it crystal clear that I do not have a horse in this race... Then a whole load of incoherent ranting reposting untrue theories right from the Kremlin's asshole, which were debunked in this very thread years ago.
So yes, because of all these reasons, I am backing RussiaThis is why you are difficult to take seriously.
Read the famous memo from Bill Burns where he clearly states that Russia will not tolerate Ukraine in NATO from years ago.https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html
You will soon realize that Ukraine will indeed have to come to grips will reality and concede territory in exchange for peace. Of course they won't want to, but that is the reality.
And if Ukraine does not sign a peace deal by ceding territory, Russia is just going to grab more territory and keep what it has already captured and kill more and more AFU soldiers until Ukraine has had enough and can't keep fighting. Or until there is a collapse of AFU. In both those scenarios, you will end up with a frozen conflict similar to the 2 Koreas. Russia will keep the territory they have annexed and will very likely grab more and annex more. That in my opinion is the most likely outcome IMHO. So the sooner Ukraine negotiates, the better it will be for them.
In 2021, the peace terms before the war were very generous.
In Istanbul 2022 it was just the Donbas + Crimea + neutrality that was demanded.
Now it's the 4 new territories. It is Istanbul PLUS.
So it is in Ukraine's interest to sue for peace now.Good analysis. Correct, the west and Ukraine don't recognize reality. Russia's not going to give up and go home without saving face.
It's easy to be an armchair warrior. It's not so easy to die a bloody death or to live the rest of your life paralyzed or without limbs. If the grunts on the front lines were making the decisions, this war would be over.
The USA is bankrolling this war. And 70% of Americans polled wanted the American administration to push Ukraine towards a negotiated settlement as soon as possible.
Drama free and Elvis, you're part of the silent majority.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-peace-talks-poll/
The USA is bankrolling this war. And 70% of Americans polled wanted the American administration to push Ukraine towards a negotiated settlement as soon as possible.
Drama free and Elvis, you're part of the silent majority.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-peace-talks-poll/A negotiated settlement would include the withdrawal of invading Orcs, and return of territories to Ukraine including Donbass and Crimea. So I am not surprised so many were in favor.
Then a whole load of incoherent ranting reposting untrue theories right from the Kremlin's asshole, which were debunked in this very thread years ago.
This is why you are difficult to take seriously.You do not have an argument, which is why you resorted to selective quotation.
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html
Good analysis. Correct, the west and Ukraine don't recognize reality. Russia's not going to give up and go home without saving face.
It's easy to be an armchair warrior. It's not so easy to die a bloody death or to live the rest of your life paralyzed or without limbs. If the grunts on the front lines were making the decisions, this war would be over.The war will end (become a frozen conflict basically) when there are no Ukrainians left to send to the battlefield to die, or when there is a collapse. The average age of the Ukrainian soldier is already around 45. Fighting wars is for men in their 20's ideally. And women are already being sent to the front line. Entire generations of men have been wiped out. And they want this to continue. Horrific.
a negotiated settlement would include the withdrawal of invading orcs, and return of territories to ukraine including donbass and crimea. .delusional.
delusional.The Orcs are all in on Trump winning the election. If he doesn't win, none of what you are proposing will come to pass.
John Clayton
09-12-24, 15:45
A negotiated settlement would include the withdrawal of invading Orcs, and return of territories to Ukraine including Donbass and Crimea. So I am not surprised so many were in favor.You forgot reparations.
You forgot reparations.These guys are comical. And delusional. As they say, if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride them. That would mean the corrupt dictator Zelensky lol.
The Orcs are all in on Trump winning the election. If he doesn't win, none of what you are proposing will come to pass.Trump or Harris, it will make no difference to the final outcome which will be a Russian victory. And yes, you can write that down.
John Clayton
09-12-24, 22:20
Trump or Harris, it will make no difference to the final outcome which will be a Russian victory. And yes, you can write that down.After the dissolution of the FSB, it will be revealed that Trump is a wholly owned asset of the Kremlin. Russia's pro Trump propaganda campaign was relatively small in 2016, and they were amazed by its success. Since then, it has spent hundreds of millions of dollars to maintain Trump in power and extend their corruption and ownership of the Republican party. So, of course, there is an obvious difference in the expected outcomes between electing Harris and Trump.
Okay, I've written down your prediction. How about writing this down? Dagestan, Chechnya, Siberia, Karelia, Bashkortostan. These regions all have substantial forces engaged against Russian imperialism in Ukraine. After the collapse of the Russian army, what do you predict these separatist battalions are going to do? Go home peacefully to Dagestan? For your own mental well being, I suggest to at least try and imagine this.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/us/p . A-war. Html.
Excellent, realistic plan by J. The Vance and Trump to end the Ukraine war. Looks like some sense is finally starting to prevail in the collective West.
Mr. Vance said Mr. Trump would sit down with Russians, Ukrainians and Europeans and say, "You guys need to figure out what a peaceful settlement looks like. " he went on to outline what he thinks a deal would entail: The Russians would retain the land they have taken and a demilitarized zone would be established along the current battle lines, with the Ukrainian side heavily fortified to prevent another Russian invasion.
While the remainder of Ukraine would remain an independent sovereign state, Mr. Vance said, Russia would get a "guarantee of neutrality" from Ukraine.
John Clayton
09-14-24, 19:17
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/us/p ...Excellent, realistic plan by J. The Vance and Trump to end the Ukraine war. Looks like some sense is finally starting to prevail in the collective West....Unsurprisingly, it's identical to Putin's plan. The most disturbing thing to me, and the principal reason I'm voting for Democrats, is the capitulation of the Republican party to Trump...and Putin.
Unsurprisingly, it's identical to Putin's plan. The most disturbing thing to me, and the principal reason I'm voting for Democrats, is the capitulation of the Republican party to Trump...and Putin.It's the only realistic plan. You can keep chasing a fantasy and in the process be OK with tens of thousands of more Ukrainians dying. What a sick mindset.
John Clayton
09-14-24, 22:09
It's the only realistic plan. You can keep chasing a fantasy and in the process be OK with tens of thousands of more Ukrainians dying. What a sick mindset.Did you do your one year minimum military service?
My prediction, Trump won't become the next POTUS. We will not accept any demilitarized zone or guarantees of neutrality. The aspirational goal is the unification of both countries. It is the people who will achieve this goal as they won in the historical past. When the US stops supplying the junta it would take 2 to 3 months for peace to settle. The US can enter into a direct agreement with Russia on a broader security. This way the balance will be restored. The alternative, and I'm pessimistic overall, is going to be an escalation which can lead to a nuclear conflict.
My prediction, Trump won't become the next POTUS. We will not accept any demilitarized zone or guarantees of neutrality. The aspirational goal is the unification of both countries. It is the people who will achieve this goal as they won in the historical past. When the US stops supplying the junta it would take 2 to 3 months for peace to settle. The US can enter into a direct agreement with Russia on a broader security. This way the balance will be restored. The alternative, and I'm pessimistic overall, is going to be an escalation which can lead to a nuclear conflict.I was actually a bit surprised that Trump's plan floated by Vance was as per my prediction pretty much. If USA stops supplying Ukraine with arms, the war will end quickly no doubt.
Let's say Harris wins and the USA keeps supplying arms and money to Ukraine. It still won't change the final outcome. Ukraine will run out of soldiers and weapons eventually. Russia will keep taking more territory and continue to wreck Ukraine. What will be left will be a rump, dysfunctional state which will never ever join NATO. So the end result will be the same. A frozen conflict and Ukraine destroyed. So better to make some sort of peace and save what is left. It's the logical and humane thing to do.
John Clayton
09-15-24, 15:36
... It's the logical and humane thing to do.The logical and humane outcome is for Russia to sue for peace, withdraw to the 1992 borders and to initiate reparations.
The logical and humane outcome is for Russia to sue for peace, withdraw to the 1992 borders and to initiate reparations.This is the real world, not some fantasy world. In the real world, that's not how things work. The peace proposal presented by Vance is realistic. I get it that for Ukraine it will be very, very painful to accept or even consider, but that's the harsh reality.
This is the real world, not some fantasy world. In the real world, that's not how things work. The peace proposal presented by Vance is realistic. I get it that for Ukraine it will be very, very painful to accept or even consider, but that's the harsh reality.Giving Putin everything he wants and waving the white flag is not an outcome that will lead to long term peace. Long term peace will only come if Russia is defeated.
Giving Putin everything he wants and waving the white flag is not an outcome that will lead to long term peace. Long term peace will only come if Russia is defeated.You can keep dreaming. Meanwhile, Ukraine will cede territory to Russia and there will be an ugly peace similar to the 2 Koreas.
I was actually a bit surprised that Trump's plan floated by Vance was as per my prediction pretty much. If USA stops supplying Ukraine with arms, the war will end quickly no doubt.
Let's say Harris wins and the USA keeps supplying arms and money to Ukraine. It still won't change the final outcome. Ukraine will run out of soldiers and weapons eventually. Russia will keep taking more territory and continue to wreck Ukraine. What will be left will be a rump, dysfunctional state which will never ever join NATO. So the end result will be the same. A frozen conflict and Ukraine destroyed. So better to make some sort of peace and save what is left. It's the logical and humane thing to do.The outcome of the elections is irrelevant. Significant number of Russians don't want to further unify with Ukraine. Political leadership publicly at the moment defines the plans as per SMO (which may change soon). Military leadership wants complete control over the territory (as myself). We don't want anything to be frozen or any non functional state, but open borders and peace moving forward.
No EU, no agreements between Ukraine and other NATO members, no joining NATO. We can mobilize, win over the elites and change the government or enter into direct conflict with NATO. I don't know details on negotiations or political plans, so I remain pessimistic, as it will take tenfold to achieve even minimal goals of the SMO.
Someday we have to live together in peace (and the wounds of the conflict are going to last for 3 generations) - this sentence to be repeated each time any step further is contemplated; everything else is a foreign narrative imposed in media.
Someday we have to live together in peace (and the wounds of the conflict are going to last for 3 generations) - this sentence to be repeated each time any step further is contemplated; everything else is a foreign narrative imposed in media.They made Shias and Sunnis fight in the middle east. And here they succeeded in making fellow ethnic Slavs fight each other.
John Clayton
09-16-24, 16:46
They made Shias and Sunnis fight in the middle east. And here they succeeded in making fellow ethnic Slavs fight each other.Who are "they"?
Who are "they"?You're not terribly bright or well informed, so I shall gladly help you out here. They is NATO / the collective west. They also set the precedent of changing borders by force in Europe.
John Clayton
09-16-24, 21:19
You're not terribly bright or well informed, so I shall gladly help you out here. They is NATO / the collective west. They also set the precedent of changing borders by force in Europe.Can you provide an example of NATO's forcible changes of borders? Would that be the annexation of Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia?
RamDavidson84
09-17-24, 02:31
The logical and humane outcome is for Russia to sue for peace, withdraw to the 1992 borders and to initiate reparations.Humane, 100% of course. Logical, for Russia? Couldn't be more illogical to sacrifice as much as Russia did and get nothing in return only to pay humiliating and economy crushing reparations. Russia may be a war monger and a bully, but there not as stupid as media wants you to believe. They are in it for the long haul and looks like NATO and USA will continue to pay the bill.
My question for anyone who wants to answer is this, if Ukraine loses does USA get paid back for all the weapons we sold them? As an American, do I get those tax dollars back some how?
Can you provide an example of NATO's forcible changes of borders? Would that be the annexation of Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia?Sure I can, Son. Pay attention as you are getting a free lesson in history, courtesy of Blood Red.
NATO intervened in Yugoslavia in 1999, savagely bombed the country and its critical infrastructure, killed many innocent Serbian civilians and carved out Kosovo from the Serbian heartland illegally. This was never accepted by Serbia and many other countries. So, the precedent of changing borders by force in Europe was set by NATO. You reap what you sow. I hope you learned something today, Son.
My question for anyone who wants to answer is this, if Ukraine loses does USA get paid back for all the weapons we sold them? As an American, do I get those tax dollars back some how?You won't get shit back as a taxpayer but companies like Blackrock etc will make a ton of money via reconstruction contracts.
The crazy down in Florida had a connection to Ukraine. I wonder if he talked shit here?
Time to stop the carnage. Ukraine and Russia should be negotiating an end to the war, now.
The following are excerpts from,
Ukraines new infantry recruits freeze in face of Russian onslaught
For six gruelling days this month a small team of experienced Ukrainian soldiers managed to withstand Russia's relentless assault on their position on the eastern front.
All aged under 40 and with two years of fighting experience, the six men held their ground despite a barrage of rockets and killed over 100 Russian soldiers, said their commander in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region.
"When they rotated out, they were trembling. They hadn't slept or rested," their commander said near the frontline south-east of Pokrovsk, a city Russia is seeking to occupy. "But those guys did their job and held the line. ".
The troops who replaced them were less successful. Of the eight soldiers rotated in, only two had combat experience. All six new conscripts most over the age of 40 were killed or wounded within a week, forcing the unit to retreat..
*Ukraine's troops and their commanders are growing concerned over manpower problems, particularly the quality of new recruits and the speed at which they are injured or killed.
The Ukrainian infantry is most acutely affected: its troops are grappling with exhaustion and flagging morale, leading some to abandon their positions and allow Russia to capture more land, according to frontline commanders.
Along the front in Donetsk, four commanders, a deputy commander and nearly a dozen soldiers from four Ukrainian brigades told the Financial Times that the new conscripts lack basic combat skills, motivation and often flee their positions when they come under fire.
The commanders estimated that 50 to 70 per cent of new infantry troops were killed or wounded within days of starting their first rotation.
"When the new guys get to the position, a lot of them run away at the first shell explosion," said a deputy commander in Ukraine's 72nd mechanised brigade fighting near the eastern city of Vuhledar, a key bulwark that the Russians are attempting to flank.
https://www.ft.com/content/b9396112-585a-4f7e-9628-13d500c99d93
Elvis 2008
09-27-24, 22:14
My question for anyone who wants to answer is this, if Ukraine loses does USA get paid back for all the weapons we sold them? As an American, do I get those tax dollars back some how?Apparently, Ms. Zelensky spent a million dollars in New York City all in one day. So I am not sure about that. Good luck separating a woman from her shoes.
But there were reports that a bunch of Ukrainian generals and government elite showed up at the Globe Club one night and hogged all the hot women.
I do think we will get that money back. Because the one thing you can count on in life is hookers to be ethical.
John Clayton
09-27-24, 23:41
Time to stop the carnage...I agree completely. It will happen when Russia withdraws behind 1992 international borders. Then both sides can enter into talks on the amount of Russian reparations for the destruction of life and property caused by their illegal war of aggression.
PaulInZurich
09-29-24, 07:35
But there were reports that a bunch of Ukrainian generals and government elite showed up at the Globe Club one night and hogged all the hot women.
Please provide more details about those reports, I haven't heard anything about that. I live in Zurich, go often to Globe and know several Globe regulars. I hear nothing about this, nobody in Globe said anything about this, so I believe this is total bullshit.
But there were reports that a bunch of Ukrainian generals and government elite showed up at the Globe Club one night and hogged all the hot women..You must be kidding. High level Ukrainians have access to the best pussy on the planet.
DramaFree11
09-29-24, 19:37
Apparently, Ms. Zelensky spent a million dollars in New York City all in one day. So I am not sure about that. Good luck separating a woman from her shoes.
But there were reports that a bunch of Ukrainian generals and government elite showed up at the Globe Club one night and hogged all the hot women.
I do think we will get that money back. Because the one thing you can count on in life is hookers to be ethical.Why would this, be a surprise to anyone they have been stealing from the beginning, only the media and far lefties would be surprised by this behavior. They are a bunch of crooks, the truth will come out some day.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-significant-would-russias-capture-ukrainian-town-vuhledar-be-2024-10-01/
Here's an article about life in Ukrainian towns about to be overrun by Russian forces.
https://kyivindependent.com/burning-horizon-as-russia-makes-gains-near-pokrovsk-civilians-remain-frozen-in-inaction/
Estonian intelligence apparently believes Ukrainian forces will be forced to retreat from Pokrovsk by the end of the year.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-significant-would-russias-capture-ukrainian-town-vuhledar-be-2024-10-01/
Here's an article about life in Ukrainian towns about to be overrun by Russian forces.
https://kyivindependent.com/burning-horizon-as-russia-makes-gains-near-pokrovsk-civilians-remain-frozen-in-inaction/
Estonian intelligence apparently believes Ukrainian forces will be forced to retreat from Pokrovsk by the end of the year.So, you are saying Ukraine isn't winning?
What about Zelensky's "Victory Plan" LOL. Good God.
Why would this, be a surprise to anyone they have been stealing from the beginning, only the media and far lefties would be surprised by this behavior. They are a bunch of crooks, the truth will come out some day.The truth will come out when the ship will start to sink (already started) and when the west throws Zelensky under the bus. That too is coming up soon.
Please provide more details about those reports, I haven't heard anything about that. I live in Zurich, go often to Globe and know several Globe regulars. I hear nothing about this, nobody in Globe said anything about this, so I believe this is total bullshit.He read it on the Internet.
He read it on the Internet.I read on the internet that Zelensky has a victory plan.
Can you please share some info on that, Xpartan? Do you think Ukraine can win? If yes, what does that victory look like in your view?
DramaFree11
10-08-24, 20:23
I read on the internet that Zelensky has a victory plan.
Can you please share some info on that, Xpartan? Do you think Ukraine can win? If yes, what does that victory look like in your view?XMan and Pres. Z. are both delusional and in complete denial.
Better see here US President Joe Biden's administration report on its strategy for the war in Ukraine that was sent to Congress in September 2024.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.
Ugledar.Seems like my previous response to our favorite Putin's troll has been lost in a black hole of moderation again, so here it is again.
Vuhledar (pre-war population 14,000) in 950 days. What a brilliant Russian victory!
There used to be times when the Russians set other military goals, like Kyiv in 3 days (which they now deny despite all the documented evidence). But they've gotten wiser. Nowadays, capturing the ruins of a tiny town in Donetsk at a price of tens of thousands dead and crippled orcs, the town they've been storming for 2. 5 years, mind you, is a call for celebration.
In the meantime, Zelenskiy's forces keep molesting the Russians in Kursk, the "sacred" Russian land, where the locals are all but supporting the liberators and cursing their own government.
I read on the internet that Zelensky has a victory plan.
Can you please share some info on that, Xpartan? Do you think Ukraine can win? If yes, what does that victory look like in your view?Oh, I don't know, Igor. What I see clearly is how Russia will lose -- when the Russians turn their weapons on Putin's mafia clan and Russia's repressed ethnic minorities will herald the end of the last empire on Earth. That will preclude years and years of a new massive civil war.
1917, here we come.
This uncontrolled disintegration of Russia is what the "collective West" is really scared of, the complete chaos that a quick Ukraine's victory may unleash.
All in vain, though. Que sera sera. Ukraine will keep fighting, and Russia's dead-set on self-destruction, anyway.
Russia is Russia's biggest problem, not Ukraine.
WolfgangMayr
10-09-24, 22:25
Was soll der Quatsch 99% wollen informationen über Sex hier. Bitte löscht so einen Quatsch.
There used to be times when the Russians set other military goals, like Kyiv in 3 days (which they now deny despite all the documented evidence). But they've gotten wiser. .Since you're a habitual liar and have a third-grade education, I don't think there's much point in reminding you that the 'Kiev in 3 days' line was never used by Putin or any Russian but by General Mark Miley of the United States army.
Since you're a habitual liar and have a third-grade education, I don't think there's much point in reminding you that the 'Kiev in 3 days' line was never used by Putin or any Russian but by General Mark Miley of the United States army.The Rusisans are clobbering the Nazis. Soon, the resident Nazis here will stfu and go back to wet dreams about Russia disintegrating, just as their shtt for brains have.
Since you're a habitual liar and have a third-grade education, I don't think there's much point in reminding you that the 'Kiev in 3 days' line was never used by Putin or any Russian but by General Mark Miley of the United States army.Sure thing Igor: Keep banging your head against the wall. Over and over and over, that's a great strategy.
Vladimir Soloviev, top Putin's propogandist.
We'll raise an eyebrow and Ukraine will understand everything.Artem Sheinin, Russian propagandist and executive of the state-controlled Channel One.
And Kyiv will be taken so quickly -- 1.5-3 daysOlga Skabyeeva, lead TV propagandist, AKA "Iron Doll of Putin TV".
Two days, then the fall of the city.Margarita Simonyan, media executive and head of the Russian state-controlled RT and the state-owned Rossiya Segodnya.
In a hot war we will defeat Ukraine in 2 days; what's there to defeat, Jesus -- that's Ukraine!And of course, the cherry on top:
Vladimir Putin:
If I wanted to, I could take Kiev in two weeks.https://twitter.com/i/status/1649011513259175937
https://time.com/3259699/putin-boast-kiev-2-weeks
The Rusisans are clobbering the Nazis. Soon, the resident Nazis here will stfu and go back to wet dreams about Russia disintegrating, just as their shtt for brains have.You guys are really something. I mean, neither Hitler nor Mussolini ever thought of calling their opponents the Nazis. Goebbels totally missed on something there.
Was soll der Quatsch 99% wollen informationen ber Sex hier. Bitte lscht so einen Quatsch.I'm sure the Mods will help you understand how this forum works, but before they do:
1. The forum language is English.
2. When you see a sub-forum named "Stupid Shit", this is not strictly about sex.
3. New members should refrain from barking orders -- but that's not a rule, just common courtesy.
The Rusisans are clobbering the Nazis. Soon, the resident Nazis here will stfu and go back to wet dreams about Russia disintegrating, just as their shtt for brains have.They are already coming up with the lame narrative they will run with once Ukraine is defeated. I bet it will be one of the following:
Ukraine still exists as a country, so Putin failed as he wanted to conquer all of Ukraine (a lie).
Russia only managed to conquer 25% of Ukraine and suffered enormous losses (Russia is not interested in anything other than Odessa west of the Dniper).
Or some other bullshit like that.
Ugledar was a heavily fortified city and strategically important and now they will say it doesn't matter by citing it's pre war population etc. Idiots.
Russia on brink of civil war after Chechen leader declares 'blood feud'
Chechnya's brutal dictator appeared to pour flames on simmering tensions between the two republics, when he announced a blood feud on two politicians from Dagestan and one from Ingushetia. In a televised meeting with senior officials, Kadyrov said: "I officially declare a blood feud against Bekhan Barakhoyev, Suleiman Kerimov and Rizvan Kurbanov."
Kerimov and Kurbanov are both originally from Dagestan, while Barakhoyev is from Ingushetia.https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/151307/russia-chechnya-dagestan-kadyrov-blood-feud
For the record, I disagree with the clearly sensationalized heading, for I don't think we're there yet. But the simple fact that Putin not only has failed to prevent this outrageous display of unspeakable disobedience, but hasn't even dared react in any way, shape or form to put his vassal in his place, tells us everything we need to know about this rotten to the core failed state, this colossus with feet of clay, this mammoth display of weakness and depravity.
And you wanna be my latex salesman! LOL
https://youtu.be/VUW71HXbXAg
Sure thing Igor: Keep banging your head against the wall. Over and over and over, that's a great strategy.
.Putin or any Russian government official never said that and you failed miserably to provide any evidence. You also ran away from posting the actual link where Mark Milley did indeed say that. As I said, you're a coward, delusional and have a very low I. Q.
You = owned. Walk on home, boy.
Putin or any Russian government official never said that and you failed miserably to provide any evidence. You also ran away from posting the actual link where Mark Milley did indeed say that. As I said, you're a coward, delusional and have a very low I. Q.
You = owned. Walk on home, boy.Yesterday it was any Russian, today it has to be an "official", LOL.
OK, I'll see your 10 and raise you 100.
Both Simonyan and Sheinin are Russian government officials. A bigger Goebbels and a smaller Goebbels running state media organizations.
Is your fuhrer also not a Russian government official? Did he not claim he could take Kyiv in 2 weeks? Surely, 2 weeks is more than 3 days, but -- did you take Kyiv in 2 weeks, Igor?
No. You've taken the ruines of Vuhledar after 950 days of fighting and tens of thousands of dead orcs to show for it.
660,000 dead and crippled in less than 3 years, and you still have failed to capture Bombas.
What a country!
https://eros.lviv.ua/en/ - hit yesterday by army recruiters as well.
'Ukrainian military recruitment officers raided restaurants, bars and a concert hall in Kyiv, checking military registration documents and detaining men who were not in compliance, media and witnesses reported Sunday.
Officers descended on Kyiv's Palace of Sports venue after a concert Saturday night by Ukrainian rock band Okean Elzy. Video footage aired by local media outlets appears to show officers stationed outside the doors of the concert hall intercepting men as they exit. In the footage, officers appear to be forcibly detaining some men.
Checks were also conducted at Goodwine, an upscale shopping centre, and Avalon, a popular restaurant.
It is unusual for such raids to take place in the capital and it reflects Ukraine's dire need for fresh recruits. All Ukrainian men aged 25-60 are eligible for conscription, and men aged 18-60 are not allowed to leave the country.
Men live in fear of being called up.
A 27-year-old man said he left the concert as the last song was playing after he was told about the recruitment officers. He said he saw soldiers and police talking to people but "didn't see anything super aggressive. ".
He said men felt in danger of being drafted whenever they ventured outside.
"That inner state of always being in danger, it's back again," he told The Associated Press, only giving his first name for fear of retribution. He said his university draft waiver was taken away after Ukraine passed laws in April that both lowered the draft-eligible age for men from 27 to 25 and did away with some draft exemptions.
Local reports said raids were also conducted in clubs and restaurants across other Ukrainian cities, including Kharkiv and Dnipro in eastern and central Ukraine.
Ukraine has intensified its mobilisation drive this year. A new law came into effect this spring stipulating that those eligible for military service must input their information into an online system or face penalties. '.
Russians Planned a Victory Parade in Kyiv but Dumped Their Formal Attire as They Fled
Russian forces that unsuccessfully tried to take Kyiv were so confident they would win they brought along outfits to hold a parade in the capital, a Ukrainian military official said Thursday. But they wound up dumping their parade attire when they were forced to retreat, according to Oleksandr Gruzevich, deputy chief of staff of Ukraines ground forces. At a briefing early Thursday, Gruzevich said Russian troops had left behind formal military attire in the Kyiv region. If any of you have been in the liberated citiesIrpen, Bucha, Ivankov, Makarov you saw how much equipment the enemy left, how much of it was destroyed and how much of it was stupidly abandoned. Along with that we are finding parade uniforms that they left, meaning the enemy planned to enter Kyiv in two days and then march through, Gruzevich told reporters.https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-planned-a-victory-parade-in-kyivbut-dumped-their-formal-attire-as-they-fled
While both sides lie, the pro Ukrainian / Nazi lot are reduced to the most threadbare of lies. Russia is advancing all along the front (both sets of maps agree to that) and they are killing the Ukrainian invaders in Kursk at a huge rate. Yet the West still lies about all that. When we trcikel the West down to this aite, the main Nazi apologists, Xpartan and his type, are so uninformed they are pathetic.
John Clayton
10-13-24, 15:33
Putin or any Russian government official never said that and you failed miserably to provide any evidence. You also ran away from posting the actual link where Mark Milley did indeed say that. As I said, you're a coward, delusional and have a very low I. Q.
You = owned. Walk on home, boy.Of course, it's impossible to argue with paid propagandists. The methods of disinformation have been well and continuously practiced by Russian state entities since late czarist times: lies, illegitimate "news", denial of previousl statements, projection, vilification, personal attacks on "enemies of the state", etc. The ad hominem attacks are always the clearest tell of a propagandist who is running low.
Russians Planned a Victory Parade in Kyiv but Dumped Their Formal Attire as They Fled
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-planned-a-victory-parade-in-kyivbut-dumped-their-formal-attire-as-they-fledOf course that will be dismissed as "Western Propaganda. " Igor will then go back to pontificating while refusing to cite any sources.
While both sides lie, the pro Ukrainian / Nazi lot are reduced to the most threadbare of lies. Russia is advancing all along the front (both sets of maps agree to that) and they are killing the Ukrainian invaders in Kursk at a huge rate. Yet the West still lies about all that. When we trcikel the West down to this aite, the main Nazi apologists, Xpartan and his type, are so uninformed they are pathetic.Umberto Eco classified fascism better than anyone else could IMHO. Try to find even one box that Putin's Russia won't tick.
1. The cult of tradition. "One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements. ".
2. The rejection of modernism. "The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense yr-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism. ".
3. The cult of action for action's sake. "Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation. ".
4. Disagreement is treason. "The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge. ".
5. Fear of difference. "The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus your-Fascism is racist by definition. ".
6. Appeal to social frustration. "One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups. ".
7. The obsession with a plot. "Thus at the root of the yr-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. ".
8. The enemy is both strong and weak. "By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. ".
9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. "For yr-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. ".
10. Contempt for the weak. "Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology. ".
11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. "In yr-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death. ".
12. Machismo and weaponry. "Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality. ".
13. Selective populism. "There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People. ".
14. Yr-Fascism speaks Newspeak. "All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning. ".
https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html
Umberto Eco classified fascism
Your heroes have lost.
]Get yourself a bayonert and a helmet. Go all Rhett Butler, parrot boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnEZrV_WT44&t=31s.
Unconditional surrender. War crimes tirals. The rope for Zelensky.
Get yourself a bayonert and a helmet. Go all Rhett Butler, parrot boyWhy would I need a bayonet? I have nothing to do with Ukraine. Ukraine and its heroic soldiers have my enormous respect (and my donations, too), but it isn't my war.
You, on the other hand. You, Igor and other Russian fascists lucky enough to reside outside your failed mafia state, should put your money where your mouth is and join your fuhrer's war effort. Otherwise, it appears that your mouth is the most courageous part of your body.
Russians Planned a Victory Parade in Kyiv but Dumped Their Formal Attire as They Fled
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-planned-a-victory-parade-in-kyivbut-dumped-their-formal-attire-as-they-fledTime to own your dumbass yet again. Pay attention, boy.
Owned, shit4 brains.
Gen. Milley says Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if Russia decides to invade Ukraine: sources.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-says-kyiv-could-fall-within-72-hours-if-russia-decides-to-invade-ukraine-sources
Even Russian Propaganda Was Hesitant to Claim Kyiv Would Fall in Three Days.
https://www.newsweek.com/even-russian-propaganda-was-hesitant-claim-kyiv-would-fall-three-days-1832754
I have nothing to do with Ukraine. Ukraine and its heroic soldiers have my enormous respect (and my donations, too), but it isn't my war..You have been parading your ignorance here for years. You know nothing about it and just want to stuck your head between a Ukrainian crack addict's legs again. Or maybe Zelensky's, when he is in tights and heeels. Cheeleaders like you have always sickened me. You are an insult to humanity. Get a rope and do the right thing.
Aleksey Moskalev a single father of a 12-year old girl was arrested after his daughter was reported for a drawing that depicted a Russian and Ukrainian flags with words "No to war" and "Glory to Ukraine".
The criminal investigation that followed found some antiwar messages in Moskalev's social networks. He was sentenced to 1 year and 10 months for discrediting the Russian military.
His daughter was placed in foster care after his arrest.
Moskalev was finally released after serving his term.
"Russia cannot be fully understood by those who have not been through its prisons," he said after his release.
https://newsroom.ap.org/editorial-photos-videos/detail?itemid=c65f4a2cacf345f79e418859b33bf876
Of course that will be dismissed as "Western Propaganda. " Igor will then go back to pontificating while refusing to cite any sources.And here we are: It was and he did, LOL.
Here is a hilarious compilation made by Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to Ukraine's Minister of Internal Affairs.
A Russian state TV guest has denied claims made in the past by pundits and officials about the country's plan to take control of Kyiv within three days, at the beginning of the Russia-Ukraine war.
In a video with English subtitles posted on Twitter by Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to Ukraine's Minister of Internal Affairs, a Russian TV guest is seen speaking about the information that circulated about the war when it began in February of last year including claims that Russia would take Kyiv in a matter of two or three days.
"As the most trivial and such a vivid example to our viewers, during the early days of the special operation, who came up with this thesis that the Russians would capture Kyiv in three days? We have never said such a thing," said the guest in the clip posted by Gerashchenko.
However, Gerashchenko compiled a number of clips added to the same video that showed several Russian pundits and analysts saying that Kyiv would fall quickly to Russia.https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-guest-denies-past-claims-taking-kyiv-three-days-1795732
Anton Gerashchenko.
At Gerashchenko_en.
Russian propagandists complain about global misinformation regarding Russia. They say they never threatened to take Kyiv in three days.
I've made a compilation of several things they did say about capturing Kyiv / Ukraine.
https://x.com/i/status/1649011513259175937
Now that it is slowly but surely become obvious to everyone that Ukraine is losing and will not win, I ask this simple question to the serious people here (not the delusional ones):
Why did the collective west force Ukraine to abandon the peace negotiations in Istanbul in March. April 2022 which could have ended the war and saved hundreds of thousands of lives and prevented Ukraine from losing so much more territory? The answer is simple and horrifying. They wanted to make Russia bleed rather than save Ukraine.
I have said this before, and I'll say it again. These people are pure evil, and I hope God never forgives them for taking Ukraine down the primrose path.
John Clayton
10-18-24, 07:30
Now that it is slowly but surely become obvious to everyone that Ukraine is losing and will not win, I ask this simple question to the serious people here (not the delusional ones)...1) I don't think it's obvious to everyone.
2) Are there actually any serious people here?
Okay, Serious Man:
What is the value of the RF sovereign wealth fund? How long will those assets last at the current rate of expenditure? What percentage of those assets is being spent on the war?
Why is Russia using Iranian drones and North Korean ammo? Why are North Korean soldiers fighting on the front line? What is the capacity of the Russian military industry vs. The Ukrainian?
What percentage of the RF Black Sea fleet remains in Crimea? What is the current capacity of the Kerch bridge? After the destruction of the Feodisia fuel depot, what are the total fuel reserves on Crimea?
What is the status of forces in Kursk oblast? When will Ukrainian forces be expelled by the mighty Russian army?
What is the current situation of the Kadyrovites versus the rest of the North Caucasus? Does it seems stable?
I for one do not believe that a Russian military victory is inevitable. In fact, I think that the utter collapse of the RF is much, much more likely. As I have noted previously, prior to the sudden dissolution of the Russian Empire in 1917 and the USSR in 1991, both political entities seemed strong, and the idea of collapse seemed impossible.
My advice: sell your rubles and try to get a better passport.
Now that it is slowly but surely become obvious to everyone that Ukraine is losing and will not win, I ask this simple question to the serious people here (not the delusional ones):
Why did the collective west force Ukraine to abandon the peace negotiations in Istanbul in March. April 2022 which could have ended the war and saved hundreds of thousands of lives and prevented Ukraine from losing so much more territory? The answer is simple and horrifying. They wanted to make Russia bleed rather than save Ukraine.
I have said this before, and I'll say it again. These people are pure evil, and I hope God never forgives them for taking Ukraine down the primrose path.I would say two contrarian ideas.
A) There were no and there is no Ukrainian side, we are dealing with a junta comprised of sellouts and traitors. Russia is in fact in war with the US.
B) Russian delegation was farcical to an extent. Russia never planned to reach an agreement in 2022.
I don't know the answer to the question of a potential peace deal reached in March 2022 or in May 2022, but not in April as disseminated.
Clearly, several things fell apart: army support was suppressed, agreements with the elites failed, there was no repeat of 2008 scenario with Georgia. Russia had to enter the conflict knowingly unprepared. There were only 80 K servicemen at the front line.
Now we got ten times more at the front line with 1. 5 M total servicemen and growing, and the nuclear doctrine being updated.
I would say two contrarian ideas.
A) There were no and there is no Ukrainian side, we are dealing with a junta comprised of sellouts and traitors. Russia is in fact in war with the US.
B) Russian delegation was farcical to an extent. Russia never planned to reach an agreement in 2022.
I don't know the answer to the question of a potential peace deal reached in March 2022 or in May 2022, but not in April as disseminated.
Clearly, several things fell apart: army support was suppressed, agreements with the elites failed, there was no repeat of 2008 scenario with Georgia. Russia had to enter the conflict knowingly unprepared. There were only 80 K servicemen at the front line.
Now we got ten times more at the front line with 1. 5 M total servicemen and growing, and the nuclear doctrine being updated.Totally agree that this is not a war between Ukraine and Russia but between Russia and NATO. And make no mistake about it, NATO means USA. The EU states are satellite USA states for the most part.
The peace talks in Istanbul in 2022 were hijacked by the Brits on the direction of the Americans. Zelensky sold out Ukraine for $$ and destroyed his country but became a very rich man in the process. He will be living in luxury in exile if he manages to get out before the ship sinks. History will judge that corrupt actor very harshly.
John Clayton
10-19-24, 17:23
Totally agree that this is not a war between Ukraine and Russia but between Russia and NATO. And make no mistake about it, NATO means USA...Moderator: this is paid political propaganda and should be removed from this forum.
The resident Nazis here should accept the Ukrainian Nazis are getting their asses handed to them. The only win-win scenario now is unconditional surrender by NATO proxy Ukraine, allow Rusisa have all of Ukaiane bordering the Black Sea, Poland and Romania to fdivide the western parts and war crimes' trials in Moscow followed by the rope, for Zelensky, and the other gangsters.
John Clayton
10-19-24, 22:35
The resident Nazis here should accept the Ukrainian Nazis are getting their asses handed to them. The only win-win scenario now is unconditional surrender by NATO proxy Ukraine, allow Rusisa have all of Ukaiane bordering the Black Sea, Poland and Romania to fdivide the western parts and war crimes' trials in Moscow followed by the rope, for Zelensky, and the other gangsters.The collapse of the Russian economy is very likely, maybe inevitable at this point. I suspect there are many on this forum old enough to remember the collapse of the USSR. Also, there are many here who remember the Soviet-Afghan war and its outcome. I acknowledge that you are merely a paid propagandist, but do the similarities with 1989-92 resonate with you in any way?
I would say two contrarian ideas.
A) There were no and there is no Ukrainian side, we are dealing with a junta comprised of sellouts and traitors. Russia is in fact in war with the US.
B) Russian delegation was farcical to an extent. Russia never planned to reach an agreement in 2022.
I don't know the answer to the question of a potential peace deal reached in March 2022 or in May 2022, but not in April as disseminated.
Clearly, several things fell apart: army support was suppressed, agreements with the elites failed, there was no repeat of 2008 scenario with Georgia. Russia had to enter the conflict knowingly unprepared. There were only 80 K servicemen at the front line.
Now we got ten times more at the front line with 1. 5 M total servicemen and growing, and the nuclear doctrine being updated.The funniest part about Russians is their insane, insatiable, unbelievable arrogance. For decades, this good for nothing country has claimed that only the US deserves the right to be their worthy nemesis. Why? Because you span several time zones?
Your "invincible" country has lost wars to the Mongols, the Turks, the English, the French, the Japanese, the Germans, the Poles, the Finns, the Afghans, the Chechens -- and is now slated to lose its most fateful war -- to Ukraine. There is no Ukrainian side, huh? I'd say that invisible side is doing quite well by beating the living hell out of you. 670,000 dead and crippled Orcs in less than three years.
Oh, yes and growing with every single day.
But how can you admit getting beaten by Ukraine? Fuck no, we're Russia. We're mighty and invincible, it's got to be the Nato, the US, the collective West, the aliens.
And of course, Russian arrogance can't exist without their phantasmagorical lies. Their propaganda has one rule: go big or go home.
Which is why anyone who takes Questner's numbers seriously should get their head examined.
By Feb 24,2022, the Russians amassed 200,000 troops against Ukraine, not 80,000.
1. 5 millions servicemen? He must've seen it in his sweet dreams. They're paying 3 million rubles for every signed contract. They're importing cannon fodder from North Korea. Half of their "servicemen" are in their 50's and 60's. The wounded get sent back to the frontlines from the hospitals before their treatment is over, even on crutches. They're losing more fodder every month that they manage to replenish. Even 3 M rubles sign up bonus ($37,000, which is a mind-blowing amount for Russians) doesn't yield many takers.
Their nuclear doctrine? Who gives a shit about your saber rattling? No one takes your failed mafia state seriously anymore.
A war with the US? Yeah, right. The war with the US would mean lights out in 2-3 weeks top for Russia, and I'm being generous.
The collapse of the Russian economy is very likely, maybe inevitable at this point. I suspect there are many on this forum old enough to remember the collapse of the USSR. Also, there are many here who remember the Soviet-Afghan war and its outcome. I acknowledge that you are merely a paid propagandist, but do the similarities with 1989-92 resonate with you in any way?I'm not sure this fella is a paid propagandist. I mean, to get paid, you must regularly show up for work (like BlahRed, for example), and he doesn't seem to qualify in this department. He's probably just one of those brave Russians who prefers to defend his motherland on this very important mongering site rather than the front lines. Makes perfect sense if you ask me.
Moderator: this is paid political propaganda and should be removed from this forum.This dumbass is comical.
A war with the US? Yeah, right. The war with the US would mean lights out in 2-3 weeks top for Russia, and I'm being generous.I know you're a complete fucking idiot but I guess no one has informed you that Russia has the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Any country that goes to war with Russia, be it USA or any other will also get destroyed. It's called MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. I know you were not aware of that since as I have pointed out many times you have a 3rd grade education, but happy to educate you once again. Cheers.
Reiner Otto
10-21-24, 21:16
Any country that goes to war with Russia, be it USA or any other will also get destroyed. Then I am wondering, why one of the most often mentioned "Arguments" for Putlers aggression was NATOs expansion towards Russian borders.
How could he be afraid, then?
Must be even more afraid nowadays (and willing to attack neighbouring countries), because Russias borders to NATO states expanded after his invasion of UA.
Your insults disqualify you as a typical rural (uncivilized) American. Russian trolls usually have some better manners (and education).
I know you're a complete fucking idiot but I guess no one has informed you that Russia has the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Any country that goes to war with Russia, be it USA or any other will also get destroyed. It's called MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. I know you were not aware of that since as I have pointed out many times you have a 3rd grade education, but happy to educate you once again. Cheers.No one is going to war with you. You're an aggressor state. Not Ukraine, not Nato.
And yet, your fascist mafia-state is threatening Ukraine (a non-nuclear state) and Nato countries with a nuclear strike.
You, degenerates, are claiming that you're at war with Nato, LOL.
Your excuse for a country (that in the last 30 years has lost to Afghans, Chechens and Ukrainians) is now threatening Nato. Nato for fuck's sake!
You must pray 24/7 that serious people in the West don't start taking you seriously.
Your insults disqualify you as a typical rural (uncivilized) American. Russian trolls usually have some better manners (and education).1. he's not an American. He's a paid Russian propagandist.
2. No, they don't. When they're being exposed, they always respond with name-calling and insults. And I mean ALWAYS, no exceptions.
Quote,
"They fucked up in 2014," Biden said to a friend, according to Woodward. "That's why we are here. We fucked it up".
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/08/politics/bob-woodward-book-war-joe-biden-putin-netanyahu-trump/index.html
No one is going to war with you. You're an aggressor state. Not Ukraine, not Nato.
.What is this YOU non sense? I just educated you that USA and Russia will never ever engage in a DIRECT war because it will mean mutually assured destruction for both. That's why they had a cold war for decades. And that's why America is USING Ukraine as a PROXY to fight Russia now.
I know you are not very sharp, but I broke all that down for you in very easy english. Have a nice day.
Then I am wondering, why one of the most often mentioned "Arguments" for Putlers aggression was NATOs expansion towards Russian borders.
How could he be afraid, then?
Must be even more afraid nowadays (and willing to attack neighbouring countries), because Russias borders to NATO states expanded after his invasion of UA.
Your insults disqualify you as a typical rural (uncivilized) American. Russian trolls usually have some better manners (and education).Please see my reply to Xpartan.
Russia wouldn't tolerate American missiles being placed in Ukraine, hence no NATO expansion into Ukraine. That was a red line.
The Americans wouldn't tolerate Soviet missiles in Cuba. That was their red line.
I hope you can follow?
Enter The V
10-22-24, 12:13
Why is the stupid fucking War still going on?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.