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Steve 9696
08-14-20, 02:30
Well it's been a long time coming. Six months of searching in my second tier city. And two catfishes. Blech! But finally found my girl. We met for an ice cream date meet and greet last week. I was totally concerned she was fake going in. Because she's beautiful but her profile was super forward. But she's real. She's done SB 4 times before. All serious and long term.

She says she wants $200 a meet (yay!) and is very interested in developing something long term. Super pretty girl with a few ignorable extra pounds (says it's Covid weight she is going to lose). All In all seemed promising.

Met tonight at the hotel skipped dinner. Wasn't the best sex of my life course that's a high bar. But very submissive and eager to please. All in all a solid find after all this time. Looking forward to a few times per month meetup.

It pays to be patient!

Steve 9696
08-14-20, 12:02
Well it's been a long time coming. Six months of searching in my second tier city. And two catfishes. Blech! But finally found my girl. We met for an ice cream date meet and greet last week. I was totally concerned she was fake going in. Because she's beautiful but her profile was super forward. But she's real. She's done SB 4 times before. All serious and long term.

She says she wants $200 a meet (yay!) and is very interested in developing something long term. Super pretty girl with a few ignorable extra pounds (says it's Covid weight she is going to lose). All In all seemed promising.

Met tonight at the hotel skipped dinner. Wasn't the best sex of my life course that's a high bar. But very submissive and eager to please. All in all a solid find after all this time. Looking forward to a few times per month meetup.

It pays to be patient!Let me rephrase having slept on it.

Body and sex were a double. Arrangement, attitude, and face total home run! Super happy.

DiverOyster
08-15-20, 02:39
Well it's been a long time coming. Six months of searching in my second tier city. And two catfishes. Blech! But finally found my girl. We met for an ice cream date meet and greet last week. I was totally concerned she was fake going in. Because she's beautiful but her profile was super forward. But she's real. She's done SB 4 times before. All serious and long term.

She says she wants $200 a meet (yay!) and is very interested in developing something long term. Super pretty girl with a few ignorable extra pounds (says it's Covid weight she is going to lose). All In all seemed promising.

Met tonight at the hotel skipped dinner. Wasn't the best sex of my life course that's a high bar. But very submissive and eager to please. All in all a solid find after all this time. Looking forward to a few times per month meetup.

It pays to be patient!Way to go Steve. That's good. SA has been an erratic experience for me too. Tons of scammers on SA who want me to cashapp partial payment upfront. However, I also got some good intimate gfe sessions. More than 50% of my SA meets have been BBFS, and one with anal BBFS, just like my real life girlfriends. Now I weed out all the $500 and $800 and $1,000 and focus on the $300. I have gotten as low as $100, $200, $250, all BBFS. I live in one of the largest cities in the South.

I msg tons of hot slender girls but most don't respond. Among the ones that respond about 1/2 are scammers demanding cashapp upfront. The remaining 1/2 some chat with me and then ghost. So this process works itself out to a small number of chics who eventually meet. I also got favored and contacted by a bunch of chics who are not my physical type.

Chubzy Maximus
08-20-20, 23:18
Anyone try SA in Dublin? Any info appreciated. Would imagine there's a ton of SB's over at Trinity? Do tell if you have any advice.

Elvis 2008
08-21-20, 05:43
I have met four women who live in Mexico on three different trips to Cancun. When I had two women come at once, it was a disaster. I then ran into a beauty who was gorgeous, nice, and decent in the sack and took her to Cancun twice. The chemistry just was not there.

When I was in Mexico City with her, I knew something was different when we had sex before dinner and she came back and wanted it again.

With this trip, she was on my dick the whole time. We went at it five times the first day even in the ocean and the pool. Then a few times the next day. This morning, she woke me up by sucking my cock. God, I love the horny ones.

When I asked her if she needed money today, she responded "For what? And it appears to me that she is looking for something deeper. Still, I told her that I was seeing other women and would not commit easily to one unless I really got to know her.

She is half my age, but the way she carries herself and given how tall she is, the age thing does not look like it will be an issue. The shorter, younger ones, who look like teenagers look more age inappropriate IMO.

I have a stunning prospect in Brazil that I am thinking of seeing. Thing is she is in Brazil, and this one is so much closer.

Still, for all the guys who say, they are all working girls in it for money and the women on SA are a different versions of working girls, I would ask then why don't they always ask for money. I do not know about anyone else, but I am finding foreign women time after time willing to suck and fuck me for nothing. Maybe they are playing the long game, and it may be to my advantage to say, "Yeah, they are all working girls" but if so, they are working girls who are not charging me. LOL.

Life is good. Shit, this chica totally drained me. Man can she suck and fuck.

Midwestern
08-22-20, 03:54
Still, for all the guys who say, they are all working girls in it for money and the women on SA are a different versions of working girls, I would ask then why don't they always ask for money. I do not know about anyone else, but I am finding foreign women time after time willing to suck and fuck me for nothing. Maybe they are playing the long game, and it may be to my advantage to say, "Yeah, they are all working girls" but if so, they are working girls who are not charging me. LOL..Yep, I had my share of freebies off of SA too. I think it was about 11 or 12, out of 23. I don't know how it happened. Maybe they enjoyed our date and decided to just let it see where it goes. Or maybe they were on SA just to find successful guys to date and have fun with. They were not undergrads. They were more like young professionals or graduate students or people with crappy jobs, and they were just tired of being poor and dating poor guys.

YummyPL
08-22-20, 07:31
PPS Remember that in Brasil being an hour late is being on time. I am NOT kidding. It is perfectly accepted that if she is an hour late to ur date time she is on time.My first time posting on this thread.

Yes, and not just in Brasil. When my time is not constrained, I don't really care. I can have a beer at the bar. When I AM time constrained, I will actually set a meeting time 30-45 minutes before I actually want her to be there. Worse case is she waits for me.

Steve 9696
08-22-20, 12:04
So my girl Layla who it took six months to find on SA is definitely ON and on good. One of the great things about her is she's super easy going and flexible. Like I had to cancel for one day and move to another and it was no problem. Always just "sure babe". And our second in-room date was much better than the first. Even tho she done this before you can tell she's a bit nervous with a new guy. Brought some wine and that really helped.

She's not top notch at everything she does but she's a submissive pleaser and horny as hell. As we were fucking the second time she said "I could just fuck for hours". Which is a nice thing to hear!

So definitely worth all the searching. Think I've found a long term local keeper. Fingers crossed.

Steve 9696
08-22-20, 12:35
Well the first tip is a "learn from my mistakes" type of tip. Obviously I guard my identity jealously, as you should. But a few times, including with Layla, I've let girls stay over at the room I booked. It only now just occurred to me (duh!) that they have those "Welcome Mr. XXX" screens on your TV in the room and online checkout on the TV. What a bone head. Well the other day I checked at the hotel we stayed at and it doesn't have the welcome screen or a name on the checkout screen that I could tell in a quick review (only occurred to me as she was on her way up). Anyhow just a heads up that you run this risk if you let them stay after you leave (either after a couple hour soire as recently, or you let them sleep in as I did with Krystal in Vegas). So far no harm. But just be aware. Real bonehead mistake!

The second tip is really good. Use Hotwire for booking. As you may know, Hotwire books a hotel at a great rate but you don't know exactly which one. But in my second tier city you can absolutely tell what hotel you will get! They let you specify the part of the city you want to stay in. And they tell you the rating of the hotel on a 5 point scale. In my town these rating vary a bit. Like one is 4. 1 and one 4. 2 and one 4. 3 etc. So when they give you a $99 rate on a three star hotel with a 4. 4 rating you can scroll down and find the actual hotel that meets those parameters!

I've done the hotel via Hotwire twice now and both times got the hotel I manually figured out and saved $40 both times! Beware that the rate can change over time. Like it was $129 morning of the meet and jumped to $149 later in the day (tho the regular rate was $189 at that time). This is because it's all based off rooms vacant or filling up. Anyhow I was surprised I could intuit the exact hotel and save a nice chunk of change.

Best of luck to all my SA buddies!

Akibono
08-23-20, 00:59
Well the first tip is a "learn from my mistakes" type of tip. Obviously I guard my identity jealously, as you should. But a few times, including with Layla, I've let girls stay over at the room I booked. It only now just occurred to me (duh!) that they have those "Welcome Mr. XXX" screens on your TV in the room and online checkout on the TV. What a bone head. Well the other day I checked at the hotel we stayed at and it doesn't have the welcome screen or a name on the checkout screen that I could tell in a quick review (only occurred to me as she was on her way up). Anyhow just a heads up that you run this risk if you let them stay after you leave (either after a couple hour soire as recently, or you let them sleep in as I did with Krystal in Vegas). So far no harm. But just be aware. Real bonehead mistake!.Fortunately, the girls are not too smart or experienced. I suspect a call to the front desk for a duplicate invoice would give them all the info about you delivered on a platter. As usual, great information. You saved me a ton of time and mistakes.

Midwestern
08-24-20, 01:20
Whenever it's possible, I ask the gal to book the hotel. The benefits are:

(1) Booking is not on my credit card.

(2) Security won't hassle the gal as she comes and goes, since she's a booked guest.

(3) As a booked guest, she seems less like a pro, so hotel (or LE) won't suspect that you are with a pro.

(4) Hides your identity from the gal in an almost fool-proof way.

(5) You don't have to worry about her wrecking the room, or stealing from the room, especially if you're letting her stay there while you are out.

(6) It's a lot easier for a guy to waltz past security than it is for the gal to sneak in.

(7) Saves me time.

This only works if (1) the gal completely trusts you (that you will reimburse her for the room) and (2) you have a legit reason for not booking the room yourself (I usually say that I don't have my ID with me for whatever reason).

I started doing this many years ago.

Pessimist
08-24-20, 02:15
Fortunately, the girls are not too smart or experienced. I suspect a call to the front desk for a duplicate invoice would give them all the info about you delivered on a platter. As usual, great information. You saved me a ton of time and mistakes.Some girls are smart, some are experienced, some are neither. To say "girls are not too smart or experienced" is the same as "girls are too smart and experienced". There is no way to generalize this either way (unless a guy goes out of his way to only meet the not smart / experienced girls, in which case that statement would be true).

But I don't think it is legal for the hotel to divulge the personal info on a guest to anyone who calls the front desk. At least not in the US. Has this sort of personal info leak happened to you? I know MW has said in the past his identity was leaked but if I remember correctly, he also said he made some mistake which made that happen. Also, MW uses this site in other countries too and the legality of identity disclosure by front desk to callers may be different in different countries.

All I know is that my identity has not leaked to any girl, at least not to the extent she either confronted me with such info. If any girl figured me out, she kept it to herself. And I have used the site enough, for more than 4 years now and several dozen arrangements, and hence the sample size is large enough and not due to dumb luck. But if guys here want to live with the belief that your identity is blown the minute you meet a girl, so be it.

Steve 9696
08-24-20, 03:14
Whenever it's possible, I ask the gal to book the hotel. The benefits are:

(1) Booking is not on my credit card.

(2) Security won't hassle the gal as she comes and goes, since she's a booked guest.

(3) As a booked guest, she seems less like a pro, so hotel (or LE) won't suspect that you are with a pro.

(4) Hides your identity from the gal in an almost fool-proof way.

(5) You don't have to worry about her wrecking the room, or stealing from the room, especially if you're letting her stay there while you are out.

(6) It's a lot easier for a guy to waltz past security than it is for the gal to sneak in.

(7) Saves me time.

This only works if (1) the gal completely trusts you (that you will reimburse her for the room) and (2) you have a legit reason for not booking the room yourself (I usually say that I don't have my ID with me for whatever reason).

I started doing this many years ago.Yep. This is better. Easier when you know her better. Layla is booking from here out. Also buying and bringing my brand of condoms. Afterall, isn't that what girlfriends are supposed to do? 😋.

Midwestern
08-24-20, 07:58
Yep. This is better. Easier when you know her better. Layla is booking from here out. Also buying and bringing my brand of condoms. Afterall, isn't that what girlfriends are supposed to do? 😋.Man, I envy you. I need a GF. I had a date with a high-end pro a couple of weeks ago. 20 years old and absolutely stunning. It was like being with a model. But just treated me like another John.

A few days ago, a homely looking girl was looking at me and I started chatting her up. She was pretty giggly and sweet, and we actually had a fun convo. She made me laugh, which I haven't done much of lately. I would rather bang this homely girl than that 20 yo hottie. Maybe it's just a "grass is greener" thing and this will pass. I kind of gave up looking for an SB on my own, but maybe I should try it again with this homely girl. I know where she works. We'll see. OTOH, it feels like settling, but OTOH, I'm looking for chemistry and GFE, so maybe I'm not settling.

Steve 9696
08-24-20, 12:04
Man, I envy you. I need a GF. I had a date with a high-end pro a couple of weeks ago. 20 years old and absolutely stunning. It was like being with a model. But just treated me like another John.

A few days ago, a homely looking girl was looking at me and I started chatting her up. She was pretty giggly and sweet, and we actually had a fun convo. She made me laugh, which I haven't done much of lately. I would rather bang this homely girl than that 20 yo hottie. Maybe it's just a "grass is greener" thing and this will pass. I kind of gave up looking for an SB on my own, but maybe I should try it again with this homely girl. I know where she works. We'll see. OTOH, it feels like settling, but OTOH, I'm looking for chemistry and GFE, so maybe I'm not settling.The word I use is AFFECTION. It's sometimes said men are pigs and some are. But I find a lot are just like me (and perhaps u) where just a bit of affection goes a long ways. I want to feel like someone cares for me and really likes me (even if it's a bit of a put on). A hug and kiss. I text that she's been missing you. These are little things but they matter to a lot of guys.

Layla and I chat a little most every night. Missing you. Netflix. Useless shit. It just feels nice having a girlfriend. The way I put it is the $$ covers the age and looks gap but other than that SA should feel like having a girlfriend, without the drama, cuz u both know its not leading to an LTR.

Oh — I should be clear that Layla is (so far) the closest I’ve been to a traditional LT sugar relationship. Almost all my girls have a been a night or two, with the promise of more, which Covid killed dead. And one girl I got pretty regular with but it still felt mostly like sex not affection. Don’t get me wrong - it was awesome - and was my longest SB so far. Hoping Layla sets a new record.

Bdb013
08-24-20, 16:51
The word I use is AFFECTION. It's sometimes said men are pigs and some are. But I find a lot are just like me (and perhaps u) where just a bit of affection goes a long ways. I want to feel like someone cares for me and really likes me (even if it's a bit of a put on). A hug and kiss. I text that she's been missing you. These are little things but they matter to a lot of guys.

Layla and I chat a little most every night. Missing you. Netflix. Useless shit. It just feels nice having a girlfriend. The way I put it is the $$ covers the age and looks gap but other than that SA should feel like having a girlfriend, without the drama, cuz u both know its not leading to an LTR.

Oh I should be clear that Layla is (so far) the closest Ive been to a traditional LT sugar relationship. Almost all my girls have a been a night or two, with the promise of more, which Covid killed dead. And one girl I got pretty regular with but it still felt mostly like sex not affection. Dont get me wrong - it was awesome - and was my longest SB so far. Hoping Layla sets a new record.Got to say, SA is great for finding gems like you have with Layla. I use it in the states as well as abroad. I still have girls I chat with in Mexico and Columbia that I found on SA or CC. One is a student in GDL, 21 yrs old and absolutely gorgeous. Found her on SA, met in GDL last year for a few nights. We still chat on whatsapp and talk about what's going on. I'm planning another trip back to Mexico in November. This time in Puebla. She wants to come spend a few days with me there. No mention of money or anything, just wanting to spend time together. She is such a sweet loving thing. A lot of guys on ISG have been down on SA, but I have found it to be a great tool when I am planning another trip. I don't even think about strip clubs, ect. Anymore.

DramaFree11
08-24-20, 17:14
Got to say, SA is great for finding gems like you have with Layla. I use it in the states as well as abroad. I still have girls I chat with in Mexico and Columbia that I found on SA or CC. One is a student in GDL, 21 yrs old and absolutely gorgeous. Found her on SA, met in GDL last year for a few nights. We still chat on whatsapp and talk about what's going on. I'm planning another trip back to Mexico in November. This time in Puebla. She wants to come spend a few days with me there. No mention of money or anything, just wanting to spend time together. She is such a sweet loving thing. A lot of guys on ISG have been down on SA, but I have found it to be a great tool when I am planning another trip. I don't even think about strip clubs, ect. Anymore.SA works like a charm in MTY. I am just can not believe it. Yes, it works in the states, but much more time and b. S.

Steve 9696
08-24-20, 17:35
Got to say, SA is great for finding gems like you have with Layla. I use it in the states as well as abroad. I still have girls I chat with in Mexico and Columbia that I found on SA or CC. One is a student in GDL, 21 yrs old and absolutely gorgeous. Found her on SA, met in GDL last year for a few nights. We still chat on whatsapp and talk about what's going on. I'm planning another trip back to Mexico in November. This time in Puebla. She wants to come spend a few days with me there. No mention of money or anything, just wanting to spend time together. She is such a sweet loving thing. A lot of guys on ISG have been down on SA, but I have found it to be a great tool when I am planning another trip. I don't even think about strip clubs, ect. Anymore.I have seen some negative comments in here. But I think it just stems from a mismatch in their needs or what they are bringing to the table. For example if they only need sex and not affection or out-of-room chemistry then SA just seems like too much work and I would agree. To be succcessful on SA you have to bring this to the table:

1. A lot of time.

2. A lot of patience.

3. Solid text game.

4. Not treating girls like pros and objects.

5. Solid in-person game.

6. Non-objectionable looks (maybe).

If you can bring this to the party, the party is ON!

Bdb013
08-24-20, 20:10
Steve, you are spot on. It is an investment of time and money. Its not cheap nor quick. I can go thru many girls to find a few I really like and get excited about meeting. But when everything lines up. The Party is On.


I have seen some negative comments in here. But I think it just stems from a mismatch in their needs or what they are bringing to the table. For example if they only need sex and not affection or out-of-room chemistry then SA just seems like too much work and I would agree. To be succcessful on SA you have to bring this to the table:

1. A lot of time.

2. A lot of patience.

3. Solid text game.

4. Not treating girls like pros and objects.

5. Solid in-person game.

6. Non-objectionable looks (maybe).

If you can bring this to the party, the party is ON!

Midwestern
08-25-20, 10:15
This will be long and boring, and if you don't believe any or some of it, then I won't blame you, because I can barely believe it myself, even though it happened to me just now.

So, yesterday, after my previous post in this thread, I decide to go look for the homely girl, and I found her at the same place where I met her the first time. We again had a good chat, and it just felt cozy to be with her. How bizarre, I thought. So anyway, I got her WeChat.

Last night, around 10 pm, I texted her, and then we texted back and forth. Then suddenly, I shit you not, she says it's too bad we were not in a hotel room. Holy fucking cow! Is she a pro? She can't be, I thought, because she has one of those minimum wage jobs. But maybe she hooks on the side and because I'm a foreigner maybe she thinks I'm a viable client, and that's probably why she was flirty the two times we interacted. After all, she has a superb bod from what I can tell, so maybe she takes advantage of it for extra income.

Anyway, we keep texting about hooking up and all that, but eventually, I had to go to bed. So I said goodnight. I shower and then hit the sack, but before I turn off my phone, I check my messages one last time, and lo and behold, my ATF pro suddenly sent me a text. She had disappeared for several months, but now she suddenly reappeared. I don't know why she disappeared, but who cares. So, we make plans for a meetup at some point. And, I go to sleep very, very happy. Homely is potentially on the hook, and my ATF pro is back in the picture.

This morning, I'm at work, and I get a text from the receptionist that I tried to make into an SB. I hadn't heard from her in 6 weeks! A quick recap about her. She was someone that I flirted with, and then was finally able to get an invite to her home, but I just banged her like she was a pro and gave her money and left. The next day, she went on a rampage about how I'm a womanizer and all that, but long story short, I saw her one more time, and then she kept dodging me afterwards and finally I got the hint and stopped pursuing her.

Anyway, today, the receptionist texts me out of the blue, "Want to come over?" I was shocked. I replied, "Don't you have to work?" And she replied, "I lost my job. " Ahhhhh, now I get it. When she asked me to come over, she was really asking me to bring my money over. So, I said I will come now. I arrive, I shower, I then do DATY and then we bareback, and she cums, and she asks why I don't cum, but I wanted to bang her some more, but eventually, she said she was sore. So, after some cuddling, I said I have to go to work. I could tell she was annoyed that I continued to treat her like a pro. But what can I do? Anyway, I gave her the usual amount, plus extra. I told her I was giving her extra to tie her over until she finds another job.

I then return to the office, and thinking to myself that I had a nut that needed busting. So, I was thinking whether I should go to a HJ MP, BJ MP, or FS MP.

Suddenly, I shit you not, I get a message from a pro that I have not seen in two years. She must be around 21-22 years old now. Phenomenal body. Everything is so firm. She was also a fave of mine, partly because she seems to genuinely like being with me. But she moved back to her hometown a couple of years ago. But now she was back in town, and so she asks me if I want to see her and that she was available today. So, I said, I'm coming now. And 25 minutes later, I arrive, and we had a great session and my problem of the unbusted nut was solved.

I guess it's true that when it rains, it pours.

The end.

Alabastern
08-25-20, 14:26
This will be long and boring, and if you don't believe any or some of it, then I won't blame you, because I can barely believe it myself, even though it happened to me just now.

So, yesterday, after my previous post in this thread, I decide to go look for the homely girl, and I found her at the same place where I met her the first time. We again had a good chat, and it just felt cozy to be with her. How bizarre, I thought. So anyway, I got her WeChat.

Last night, around 10 pm, I texted her, and then we texted back and forth. Then suddenly, I shit you not, she says it's too bad we were not in a hotel room. Holy fucking cow! Is she a pro? She can't be, I thought, because she has one of those minimum wage jobs. But maybe she hooks on the side and because I'm a foreigner maybe she thinks I'm a viable client, and that's probably why she was flirty the two times we interacted. After all, she has a superb bod from what I can tell, so maybe she takes advantage of it for extra income.

Anyway, we keep texting about hooking up and all that, but eventually, I had to go to bed. So I said goodnight. I shower and then hit the sack, but before I turn off my phone, I check my messages one last time, and lo and behold, my ATF pro suddenly sent me a text. She had disappeared for several months, but now she suddenly reappeared. I don't know why she disappeared, but who cares. So, we make plans for a meetup at some point. And, I go to sleep very, very happy. Homely is potentially on the hook, and my ATF pro is back in the picture.Haha this was a good story.

In what country is this?

Steve 9696
08-26-20, 02:02
This will be long and boring, and if you don't believe any or some of it, then I won't blame you, because I can barely believe it myself, even though it happened to me just now.

So, yesterday, after my previous post in this thread, I decide to go look for the homely girl, and I found her at the same place where I met her the first time. We again had a good chat, and it just felt cozy to be with her. How bizarre, I thought. So anyway, I got her WeChat.

Last night, around 10 pm, I texted her, and then we texted back and forth. Then suddenly, I shit you not, she says it's too bad we were not in a hotel room. Holy fucking cow! Is she a pro? She can't be, I thought, because she has one of those minimum wage jobs. But maybe she hooks on the side and because I'm a foreigner maybe she thinks I'm a viable client, and that's probably why she was flirty the two times we interacted. After all, she has a superb bod from what I can tell, so maybe she takes advantage of it for extra income.

Anyway, we keep texting about hooking up and all that, but eventually, I had to go to bed. So I said goodnight. I shower and then hit the sack, but before I turn off my phone, I check my messages one last time, and lo and behold, my ATF pro suddenly sent me a text. She had disappeared for several months, but now she suddenly reappeared. I don't know why she disappeared, but who cares. So, we make plans for a meetup at some point. And, I go to sleep very, very happy. Homely is potentially on the hook, and my ATF pro is back in the picture.

This morning, I'm at work, and I get a text from the receptionist that I tried to make into an SB. I hadn't heard from her in 6 weeks! A quick recap about her. She was someone that I flirted with, and then was finally able to get an invite to her home, but I just banged her like she was a pro and gave her money and left. The next day, she went on a rampage about how I'm a womanizer and all that, but long story short, I saw her one more time, and then she kept dodging me afterwards and finally I got the hint and stopped pursuing her.

Anyway, today, the receptionist texts me out of the blue, "Want to come over?" I was shocked. I replied, "Don't you have to work?" And she replied, "I lost my job. " Ahhhhh, now I get it. When she asked me to come over, she was really asking me to bring my money over. So, I said I will come now. I arrive, I shower, I then do DATY and then we bareback, and she cums, and she asks why I don't cum, but I wanted to bang her some more, but eventually, she said she was sore. So, after some cuddling, I said I have to go to work. I could tell she was annoyed that I continued to treat her like a pro. But what can I do? Anyway, I gave her the usual amount, plus extra. I told her I was giving her extra to tie her over until she finds another job.

I then return to the office, and thinking to myself that I had a nut that needed busting. So, I was thinking whether I should go to a HJ MP, BJ MP, or FS MP.

Suddenly, I shit you not, I get a message from a pro that I have not seen in two years. She must be around 21-22 years old now. Phenomenal body. Everything is so firm. She was also a fave of mine, partly because she seems to genuinely like being with me. But she moved back to her hometown a couple of years ago. But now she was back in town, and so she asks me if I want to see her and that she was available today. So, I said, I'm coming now. And 25 minutes later, I arrive, and we had a great session and my problem of the unbusted nut was solved.

I guess it's true that when it rains, it pours.

The end.Congrats MW. I believe every word is gospel. Why would you make that shit up. And yes when it rains it pours. It's spooky really. I will be in a drought and sudddenly 3 girls are texting me. No logical explanation. Just happens. Congrats!

Steve 9696
08-27-20, 23:42
Haha this was a good story.

In what country is this?Guess MW is too busy fucking to answer. LOL. He's in China but not from there. Did a bunch of US SA before his time in China.

Midwestern
08-28-20, 01:09
I texted her last night, and after chatting for a bit, we talk about meeting in a hotel again, but again she slightly diverts the discussion to taking a vacation together. So I said, sure, we can take a short vacation together. I was just bullshitting of course. Then, she asked if she could be my GF. LOL. We've only met twice, all we did was chat, and each time it was for about 10 minutes. I said sure. Then she asked if I could pay her rent. LOL. Okay, she's not new to this "arrangement" thing. I reply with a "surprise" emoji. Then she quickly says that her rent is not high, only $450 per month. Now that's an affordable arrangement, LOL. So then I texted, how about we meet in a hotel first, to establish chemistry. She said okay. Fingers crossed.

Midwestern
08-28-20, 01:38
Guess MW is too busy fucking to answer. LOL. He's in China but not from there. Did a bunch of US SA before his time in China.Yep, I'm in Shanghai.

Steve was active in the Shanghai thread when he was here for a spell. In one of his posts, he brought up how SA was probably the best option in the United States. Coincidentally, I too have a passion for SA, so I moved our discussion about it to the Dating Agencies forum and out of the Shanghai forum, so that we could **all** talk about and share our SA experiences.

Steve is the originator and founder of this SA forum.

As for Shanghai, the MP scene pretty much is back to normal, but other venues are not back to normal. For example, incall and outcall action seem to be far from 100% normal for a variety of reasons, and so I am looking for arrangements now. I'm not using SA. Instead, I'm trying to find arrangements by hitting on "migrant workers. " They are girls that come to Shanghai from 2nd tier cities to find work. Minimum wage in Shanghai is double the minimum wage in their second tier cities. This is enough for them to leave home. They make about $1,000 per month in Shanghai. So, an arrangement that pays them $1,000 then gives them quadruple their home salary. A thousand bux does not cause much damage to my wallet. So, this can be a win-win for me and the SB. Seems like this would be hard, but I am finding that it is not that hard. These girls are desperate for money, and they are VERY flattered that a foreigner would be interested in them. The only awkward part is that most of them have never been in an arrangement before, so that makes this a bit challenging but also kind of interesting.

Midwestern
08-29-20, 02:11
I texted her last night, and after chatting for a bit, we talk about meeting in a hotel again, but again she slightly diverts the discussion to taking a vacation together. So I said, sure, we can take a short vacation together. I was just bullshitting of course. Then, she asked if she could be my GF. LOL. We've only met twice, all we did was chat, and each time it was for about 10 minutes. I said sure. Then she asked if I could pay her rent. LOL. Okay, she's not new to this "arrangement" thing. I reply with a "surprise" emoji. Then she quickly says that her rent is not high, only $450 per month. Now that's an affordable arrangement, LOL. So then I texted, how about we meet in a hotel first, to establish chemistry. She said okay. Fingers crossed.An update.

Next morning, I look at my phone, and there's a text message from her. She took the day off, and asking again if I can pay her rent this month. So I said let's meet in a hotel. She says yes, but again insists on me paying her rent ($450). She sounded genuinely desperate, so I took the plunge and said okay, but I pick the hotel (it is $80 at the one near me) and she pays for it and also her roundtrip taxi fare ($30 is protocol here). Plus, I said this is a one-time deal. The per meet rate cannot be this high. She says okay. I tell her the hotel name, she books the room.

I then text her, don't wear makeup. I hate makeup. She says okay.

At 1 pm, she sends me a pic of her in the taxi, on the way to the hotel. I get on a rental bike and pedal over.

At 1:15 pm, she sends me a pic of her room number.

At 1:30 pm, I knock on her door.

Bros, I am not kidding or exaggerating when I say this, but when she opened the door, I was absolutely stunned. She is beautiful without her crappy and cheap and clownish makeup. If you're American, then you may remember the sitcom "Just Shoot Me. " I had a huge crush on the Maya Gallo character. Well, homely girl without makeup looks like a 16 year old version of Maya. Even her hair color and style, and dimples and smile, and especially her eyes, made her look like a teenage Maya.

I shower and we hit the bed. She asks why we are not going out. I then realize that she got dressed up for our date, LOL. (Later, I will discover that she thought we were going to spend the entire day together, and then stay overnight at the hotel. So, I guess asking for $450 wasn't being obnoxious, as she thought it would be a 20 hour date.).

We are cuddling, and then she unwraps my towel to check out my junk. She says I am huge and giggles. I ask her to take off her clothes, and she is so shy and giggly. But finally, they come off. Bros, I am not kidding, her body was phenomenal. Everything was firm, smooth, and soft. A young and nearly flawless body. You could bounce a quarter off of her stomach.

So, face and body, almost a 9 each.

DATY and then bareback sex. The look on her face was one of pleasure, disbelief, enjoyable pain, and ecstasy. She could barely breathe. And she is just clenching onto my shoulders as if she was drowning and trying desperately to hold on to save herself.

After an hour of sex, then we cuddled for an hour and chatted. She was asking me all kinds of questions about me and my life. She was so curious about me and so into me. She laughed at all of my jokes. To have this beautiful and young girl curled up next me, while both of us naked, made me feel like I was in college and in love again.

Afterwards, I told her I had to return to work. She was stunned that I was leaving. But for the rest of the day, we continued to text each other.

Bros, I am fucking smitten and totally infatuated. This probably means that I'm doomed, LOL.

A week and a half ago, I was down in the dumps. Then suddenly, she comes into my life. I am desperately hoping that this is the start of a fruitful, enjoyable, and satisfying arrangement.

The end.

Steve 9696
08-29-20, 13:10
An update.

Next morning, I look at my phone, and there's a text message from her. She took the day off, and asking again if I can pay her rent this month. So I said let's meet in a hotel. She says yes, but again insists on me paying her rent ($450). She sounded genuinely desperate, so I took the plunge and said okay, but I pick the hotel (it is $80 at the one near me) and she pays for it and also her roundtrip taxi fare ($30 is protocol here). Plus, I said this is a one-time deal. The per meet rate cannot be this high. She says okay. I tell her the hotel name, she books the room.

I then text her, don't wear makeup. I hate makeup. She says okay.

At 1 pm, she sends me a pic of her in the taxi, on the way to the hotel. I get on a rental bike and pedal over.

At 1:15 pm, she sends me a pic of her room number.

At 1:30 pm, I knock on her door.

Bros, I am not kidding or exaggerating when I say this, but when she opened the door, I was absolutely stunned. She is beautiful without her crappy and cheap and clownish makeup. If you're American, then you may remember the sitcom "Just Shoot Me. " I had a huge crush on the Maya Gallo character. Well, homely girl without makeup looks like a 16 year old version of Maya. Even her hair color and style, and dimples and smile, and especially her eyes, made her look like a teenage Maya.

I shower and we hit the bed. She asks why we are not going out. I then realize that she got dressed up for our date, LOL. (Later, I will discover that she thought we were going to spend the entire day together, and then stay overnight at the hotel. So, I guess asking for $450 wasn't being obnoxious, as she thought it would be a 20 hour date.).

We are cuddling, and then she unwraps my towel to check out my junk. She says I am huge and giggles. I ask her to take off her clothes, and she is so shy and giggly. But finally, they come off. Bros, I am not kidding, her body was phenomenal. Everything was firm, smooth, and soft. A young and nearly flawless body. You could bounce a quarter off of her stomach.

So, face and body, almost a 9 each.

DATY and then bareback sex. The look on her face was one of pleasure, disbelief, enjoyable pain, and ecstasy. She could barely breathe. And she is just clenching onto my shoulders as if she was drowning and trying desperately to hold on to save herself.

After an hour of sex, then we cuddled for an hour and chatted. She was asking me all kinds of questions about me and my life. She was so curious about me and so into me. She laughed at all of my jokes. To have this beautiful and young girl curled up next me, while both of us naked, made me feel like I was in college and in love again.

Afterwards, I told her I had to return to work. She was stunned that I was leaving. But for the rest of the day, we continued to text each other.

Bros, I am fucking smitten and totally infatuated. This probably means that I'm doomed, LOL.

A week and a half ago, I was down in the dumps. Then suddenly, she comes into my life. I am desperately hoping that this is the start of a fruitful, enjoyable, and satisfying arrangement.

The end.Dude this is too awesome. And so little going on worldwide right now. Thanks for the epic post. You going to have to splain tho how a girl goes from homely (unattractive) to a nine by taking OFF her makeup. LOL. You got some black magic voodoo going on?

Some unsolicited advice don't let it become pay for play or go overboard with $$. You paid her rent for god sakes. That means it's a lot of money to her. She should be girlfriending you for a bit and you gift her again when you want to. Not money for sex each time. But obviously since you dig her do what you feel.

Just recently moved to more of this model with Layla. She is trying to get a new car. Gave her a $1000 advance gift saying we'the figure out starting gifts again in late September. It's really just a timing thing same $$ but she is over the moon that I am helping her with her life. It will pay off. I can feel her vibe already changing.

Aha Maya Gallo = Laura San Giacomo. Omfg I só crush on her. U lucky dog!

Midwestern
08-29-20, 15:35
Dude this is too awesome. And so little going on worldwide right now. Thanks for the epic post. You going to have to splain tho how a girl goes from homely (unattractive) to a nine by taking OFF her makeup. LOL. You got some black magic voodoo going on?

Some unsolicited advice don't let it become pay for play or go overboard with $$. You paid her rent for god sakes. That means it's a lot of money to her. She should be girlfriending you for a bit and you gift her again when you want to. Not money for sex each time. But obviously since you dig her do what you feel.

Just recently moved to more of this model with Layla. She is trying to get a new car. Gave her a $1000 advance gift saying we'the figure out starting gifts again in late September. It's really just a timing thing same $$ but she is over the moon that I am helping her with her life. It will pay off. I can feel her vibe already changing.

Aha Maya Gallo = Laura San Giacomo. Omfg I s crush on her. U lucky dog!She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?

Anyway, after 2 fucking hours of being grilled, I finally say the following: I like you and I like sex. You like me and you need money. Let's meet for sex and I give you money.

Well, that didn't go over well at all. She's saying that this is not what a real relationship is, and all that shit. I'm thinking, jeezus, so now you act like you're not a pay for play girl AFTER I paid your fucking rent?

Anyway, she wants to be my real GF. This is not what I want. But I need my cock in that body. So, I'm thinking about hanging out with her tomorrow and taking another hit.

Steve, I'm hoping yours is going smoother than mine, man. The main difference is that Layla signed up for an arrangement. As for me, I am trying to talk someone into an arrangement.

BTW, I'm drunk as I'm typing this.

Steve 9696
08-29-20, 19:47
She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?

Anyway, after 2 fucking hours of being grilled, I finally say the following: I like you and I like sex. You like me and you need money. Let's meet for sex and I give you money.

Well, that didn't go over well at all. She's saying that this is not what a real relationship is, and all that shit. I'm thinking, jeezus, so now you act like you're not a pay for play girl AFTER I paid your fucking rent?

Anyway, she wants to be my real GF. This is not what I want. But I need my cock in that body. So, I'm thinking about hanging out with her tomorrow and taking another hit.

Steve, I'm hoping yours is going smoother than mine, man. The main difference is that Layla signed up for an arrangement. As for me, I am trying to talk someone into an arrangement.

BTW, I'm drunk as I'm typing this.That sucks that it went to hell so fast. Not that I should be giving advice but I think you have twice fucked up a good thing by treating girls like pros. This is the cardinal sin of SBSD (or really real life also). As soon as it feels transactional these crossover girls run for the hills. Remember the cow and meat analogy. No one wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of him. I want to buy the steak a long distance away from the killing. Keep the sex and the money as distant as possible.

I suggest you try playing BF for a bit. No $$ for a bit. Tell her you really like her but you are not long term boyfriend material. If she likes having a rich boyfriend but never more than that it's all cool. If she's here for LTR you are not that guy. But you are going to have to play boyfriend some if you want her. She's not down for strict sex for money.

P.S. Stop barebacking! This girl will ruin your world if she gets pregnant.

Nounce
08-30-20, 02:41
She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?

Anyway, after 2 fucking hours of being grilled, I finally say the following: I like you and I like sex. You like me and you need money. Let's meet for sex and I give you money.

Well, that didn't go over well at all. She's saying that this is not what a real relationship is, and all that shit. I'm thinking, jeezus, so now you act like you're not a pay for play girl AFTER I paid your fucking rent?

Anyway, she wants to be my real GF. This is not what I want. But I need my cock in that body. So, I'm thinking about hanging out with her tomorrow and taking another hit.

Steve, I'm hoping yours is going smoother than mine, man. The main difference is that Layla signed up for an arrangement. As for me, I am trying to talk someone into an arrangement.

BTW, I'm drunk as I'm typing this.Isn't this similar to the receptionist? They are young and you met casually. They are not really pros until after you paid them. I would not indicate to the homely girl it is going to be ppm. I don't think she expected that. I think you will have free sex after that. You are a nice guy who doesn't take advantage of them, and I will want you to be a friend. The impression I get from your reports is that you only want to have sex, but you don't want to be with them when you are not having sex. You are also too rigid with how you pay them but I don't know if that is a good thing or bad.

Akibono
08-30-20, 04:13
That sucks that it went to hell so fast. Not that I should be giving advice but I think you have twice fucked up a good thing by treating girls like pros. This is the cardinal sin of SBSD (or really real life also). As soon as it feels transactional these crossover girls run for the hills. Remember the cow and meat analogy. No one wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of him. I want to buy the steak a long distance away from the killing. Keep the sex and the money as distant as possible.

I suggest you try playing BF for a bit. No $$ for a bit. Tell her you really like her but you are not long term boyfriend material. If she likes having a rich boyfriend but never more than that it's all cool. If she's here for LTR you are not that guy. But you are going to have to play boyfriend some if you want her. She's not down for strict sex for money.

P.S. Stop barebacking! This girl will ruin your world if she gets pregnant.Sound advice. Getting a non-pro pregnant is asking for unbelievable trouble. Still, I envy his situation. But can't have it both ways. You need to treat (or at least pretend) to be a boyfriend or make it pay for play. As they say, you don't pay them for sex, you pay them to go away. That is why the SB situation is almost ideal. You get the non-pros, but they are not looking for a long term relationship. I am so disappointed that covid makes it too risky in the USA. The young or desperate do not take precautions and I do not want to risk my health. You simply can't trust what they say when you barely know them. I would love to check out the NYC scene. Lots of hotels with roof top bars which are perfect for meeting with more fun in your room below.

BTW, beware of the Chinese dragon lady. They can throw a fit like nobody's business. Some of these young girls are quite immature. They seem a lot of money and dream of a life of fantasy. Philipino women are more realistic with less drama.

Steve 9696
08-30-20, 14:39
Isn't this similar to the receptionist? They are young and you met casually. They are not really pros until after you paid them. I would not indicate to the homely girl it is going to be ppm. I don't think she expected that. I think you will have free sex after that. You are a nice guy who doesn't take advantage of them, and I will want you to be a friend. The impression I get from your reports is that you only want to have sex, but you don't want to be with them when you are not having sex. You are also too rigid with how you pay them but I don't know if that is a good thing or bad.Right. In Nanpa they call it ASD. Anti Sl*t Defense. No girl wants to think herself a sl*t or pro even if that is the end result. You saw your encounter as pay for sex. She saw it as "he's a nice guy and paid my rent. I had sex with him because I like him". She tries to distance the two in her mind. So if you can have sex for free a couple times and then help her with her rent or some other tangible item this helps her distance it. You are HELPING HER because u like each other.

To guys this is bullshit rationalization. To girls it's essential. To you it's essential for getting in her pants.

BrizLad
08-31-20, 00:21
She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?
The other forum members aren't saying this to you. You need to get rid of her. If you think she is a pain now, just wait until she finds out you have been lying to her for 2, 3, 5, 6, 10 months. She sounds like a motivated woman who is simply not playing the same game as you.

She does sound hot though.

Briz.

Midwestern
08-31-20, 00:23
Akibono, Nounce, Steve.

You guys are all correct. But I do not want a girlfriend in the city where I live and work. Two main reasons: (1) I don't have the time and (2) I don't want to get caught.

And yet, I don't want to be with a real pro all the time. Sometimes, I like being liked. Sounds kinda gay, but whatever. It's true. So, an arrangement with someone poor and who likes me would be the ideal situation. I think this is what we are all looking for on SA. However, my problem is that I am trying to talk girls that like me into an arrangement. They were not initially seeking an arrangement. So, this is a challenge, for all the reasons that you guys pointed out.

I wonder at what point a non-pro decides that she now want to get paid for fucking. One girl I knew on SA told me the following: "Why am I having sex with poor guys for free when I can be having sex with rich guys for money?" She said this voluntarily, as if to justify why she was on SA. I need these girls to come to the same epiphany.

Midwestern
08-31-20, 01:05
The other forum members aren't saying this to you. You need to get rid of her. If you think she is a pain now, just wait until she finds out you have been lying to her for 2, 3, 5, 6, 10 months. She sounds like a motivated woman who is simply not playing the same game as you.

She does sound hot though.

Briz.I know. Yesterday, I actually thought about breaking it off. I started a text message to her where I was going to say that we should just be friends only, but then I remembered how good it felt being with her naked, and so I deleted the text. Also, we video chatted yesterday, and I just couldn't believe how beautiful she was. So, I'm torn. But I am still 50-50 on breaking this off. I know it is for the best in the long run, but sometimes I want what is best for my kok in the short run, LOL.

Akibono
08-31-20, 01:29
Akibono, Nounce, Steve.

You guys are all correct. But I do not want a girlfriend in the city where I live and work. Two main reasons: (1) I don't have the time and (2) I don't want to get caught.

And yet, I don't want to be with a real pro all the time. Sometimes, I like being liked. Sounds kinda gay, but whatever. It's true. So, an arrangement with someone poor and who likes me would be the ideal situation. I think this is what we are all looking for on SA. However, my problem is that I am trying to talk girls that like me into an arrangement. They were not initially seeking an arrangement. So, this is a challenge, for all the reasons that you guys pointed out.

I wonder at what point a non-pro decides that she now want to get paid for fucking. One girl I knew on SA told me the following: "Why am I having sex with poor guys for free when I can be having sex with rich guys for money?" She said this voluntarily, as if to justify why she was on SA. I need these girls to come to the same epiphany.In some ways, you are already there you have paid her a large sum of money. She has slept with you twice. Clearly, the money is meaningful, but she has feelings of jealousy and being abandoned or used. I would just play it cool. It will take some work from you. If you do not want to invest the time to have a relationship, then tell her that is your parameter and let her decide. Tell her you are willing to help her financially and do want a relationship, but it would be limited. It is up to her to decide. It is always better for them to leave than for you to cut it off. In the meantime, you can do some fun things together and have sex when she is OK with it. Just treat it more like a GF and don't pay. If she hints and asks for money, then give it to her. That will ease the transition. When she gets used to the money, it becomes an arrangement, but she may dump you for someone "better. " Right now, she is in pretty woman mode. She sees what you can provide and wants it all.

Nounce
08-31-20, 12:35
I need these girls to come to the same epiphany.Have you proposed a monthly allowance for a NSA relationship? I think that may provide girls a different perspective. PPM feels like it is going to end every time.

DramaFree11
09-02-20, 00:35
I know. Yesterday, I actually thought about breaking it off. I started a text message to her where I was going to say that we should just be friends only, but then I remembered how good it felt being with her naked, and so I deleted the text. Also, we video chatted yesterday, and I just couldn't believe how beautiful she was. So, I'm torn. But I am still 50-50 on breaking this off. I know it is for the best in the long run, but sometimes I want what is best for my kok in the short run, LOL.This sounds just like one of my recent arrangements. She tired to get back together, I offered PPM and she got upset. We were on a monthly arrangement, but she screwed it up by her drinking. She was smoking Hot, so I let a lot of things go, but her drinking was impacting my job. She wanted to drink all night and sleep the day away. This just does not work for me, I have fun, but I take my Business very serious. I tired explaining this to her and tried to get her to be more productive, but no luck. Part of the issues was the Quarantine in MTY, it was very strict, now loosening up, she was not able to get a job or was using as an excuse, maybe both. Never the less I think we are done, shame, but that is life.

Good news is that I am killing it here, meeting high quality, very nice and beautiful girls. There is a not a middle ground in in MTY like in Europe or Russia, but there some smoking hot skinny girls that are very available. Almost zero Sex Tourist here, unlike some of the other destinations I use to visit, another huge advantage. Another plus 25-35% of the women I have been with here love Anal, I would have never guessed that in million years. SA is so good here.

Realdeal80
09-02-20, 00:54
I am traveling to Cdmx staying in the polanco area. Have a few already lined up! I did a lot of scouting these past 2 weeks and believe I have 3 good English speaking women more than happy go show me a good time. I probably offered to much! Hey what can I say Dollar is strong. May try out a Twitter girl also if time allows.

It has been fun finding and weeding them out tho!

Midwestern
09-03-20, 00:33
Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.


Akibono, Nounce, Steve.

You guys are all correct. But I do not want a girlfriend in the city where I live and work. Two main reasons: (1) I don't have the time and (2) I don't want to get caught.

And yet, I don't want to be with a real pro all the time. Sometimes, I like being liked. Sounds kinda gay, but whatever. It's true. So, an arrangement with someone poor and who likes me would be the ideal situation. I think this is what we are all looking for on SA. However, my problem is that I am trying to talk girls that like me into an arrangement. They were not initially seeking an arrangement. So, this is a challenge, for all the reasons that you guys pointed out.

I wonder at what point a non-pro decides that she now want to get paid for fucking. One girl I knew on SA told me the following: "Why am I having sex with poor guys for free when I can be having sex with rich guys for money?" She said this voluntarily, as if to justify why she was on SA. I need these girls to come to the same epiphany..

Steve 9696
09-03-20, 01:37
Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.

.This sounds like great progress. Although three sexless dates might be over compensating. Make sure your next date is not only hotel but not only platonic. Suggest drinks get close physically say let's get out of here and take her to the hotel. Nothing fancy. The standard playbook.

You have the upper hand now. She needs to uphold the girlfriend part when you lead her there. Well played so far!

Nounce
09-03-20, 20:43
Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.
.I think you are turning into a playboy! Ha ha, hope you don't mind. She is hot and she has an apartment. Next suggestion you will be hearing from us will be to marry her.

I have the opposite problems because most of the SBs I try to date from dating sites turn out to be hookers. 99% of them want to go to hotel. Their excuse is that it is safer. My apartment has several doormen and several receptionists and they think it is not as safe as a hotel where I don't even need an ID to get a short time room. And they all want to have sex first and money up front. LOL.

Akibono
09-03-20, 21:13
I think you are turning into a playboy! Ha ha, hope you don't mind. She is hot and she has an apartment. Next suggestion you will be hearing from us will be to marry her.

I have the opposite problems because most of the SBs I try to date from dating sites turn out to be hookers. 99% of them want to go to hotel. Their excuse is that it is safer. My apartment has several doormen and several receptionists and they think it is not as safe as a hotel where I don't even need an ID to get a short time room. And they all want to have sex first and money up front. LOL.Any hooker knows it is very dangerous to go to an apartment. There could be several men who will assault them. Genuine sbs are really trusting. This is especially true to they host. You could become a stalker. My problem with hookers in the US is they really are skanky hoes. Some are drug addicted and many have mental problems. In other countries, you get normal people that just need a quick buck, but would not be in this profession otherwise.

DramaFree11
09-04-20, 03:22
One of the first girls I met on SA, we met April when the Quarantine was just beginning. We spent the night together it was fun, but everything was closed and we were stuck in the hotel. So it was not great experience. Quarantine and lock down gets much worse in MTY, she keeps text me, but I was on the fence about meeting again.

I accidentally deleted all my WhatsApp data, I get this message I thought it was a girl I met recently on SA. I did not recognize her, she had lost 10-15 pounds, the picture was incredible, I thought it might be photoshopped. She shows up in a dinner dress, and holly shit stunning. I could not keep my hands or my eyes off her. We had a great night at the restaurant and she spent the night. Loving SA and MTY.

BrizLad
09-04-20, 11:17
. Loving SA and MTY.Can you just confirm where is MTY? Is that Mexico? You are close to Monterrey International Airport or Monterrey the city centre?

DramaFree11
09-05-20, 00:22
Can you just confirm where is MTY? Is that Mexico? You are close to Monterrey International Airport or Monterrey the city centre?Yes, Monterrey Mexico.

BrizLad
09-08-20, 09:37
Yes, Monterrey Mexico.Thanks sounds like paradise.

I'm here in Australia. Generally new to the local sugar babe scene. I sense in general that the market is changing the longer that covid plays on people.

For now I'm fully employed and hoping there are more resourceful SYTs joining the SB scene.

BL.

Steve 9696
09-08-20, 20:07
Ha as I write this I know you old dudes know what I am talking about. But realize the girls we are dating have no idea what the fuck a Rolodex is. LOL. Is that like a Rolex only bettter?

But I digress. Quick update. Layla and I saw each other three times and it was going great. Then I get a text that her family is hassling her about why is she staying at hotels etc and she says she's an adult and going to work thru it. But now ghosted since Thursday. Not looking good. Not sure if for real her family shut her down or it's an elaborate way of ghosting. Doesn't matter I suppose. Just have to see what happens.

So I immediately set about looking up girls I was close to closing with but ghosted when Layla hit. Probably hit 5+ girls back up. Sure enough one is like "wow what great timing I was just about to rejoin SA because my last thing didn't pan out. " And long story short no beating around the Bush. She is DTF after in person meeting and chemistry match. So meeting up in a few days.

Pays to keep the Rolodex hot and handy! Keep the bullpen warm because you never know when you will need a pitcher!

P.S. Midwestern you must give us an update or I will fly to Shanghai and kick you in the nuts. Fess up. What's the latest?

NeilGeorge
09-08-20, 20:28
Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.

Elvis 2008
09-08-20, 20:38
I am traveling to Cdmx staying in the polanco area. Have a few already lined up! I did a lot of scouting these past 2 weeks and believe I have 3 good English speaking women more than happy go show me a good time. I probably offered to much! Hey what can I say Dollar is strong. May try out a Twitter girl also if time allows.

It has been fun finding and weeding them out tho!Good luck, RD! I am in CDMX now. I have three chicas here. I will probably see 2. It looks like one got bit by the Covid bug but her case is not that bad. Only thing she has is a lost of smell and taste.

The number of quality women available in CDMX compared to preCovid times is off the chain.

DramaFree11
09-09-20, 00:59
Good luck, RD! I am in CDMX now. I have three chicas here. I will probably see 2. It looks like one got bit by the Covid bug but her case is not that bad. Only thing she has is a lost of smell and taste.

The number of quality women available in CDMX compared to preCovid times is off the chain.Awesome, I am having the same experience in MTY. Have fun!

Jimmy Boy 99
09-09-20, 02:27
Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.Tell her you like to shower together as part of the foreplay, then wash each other, you doing her all over sensually, and massaging her pussy and ass with the soap lather.

Midwestern
09-09-20, 04:50
Ha as I write this I know you old dudes know what I am talking about. But realize the girls we are dating have no idea what the fuck a Rolodex is. LOL. Is that like a Rolex only bettter?

But I digress. Quick update. Layla and I saw each other three times and it was going great. Then I get a text that her family is hassling her about why is she staying at hotels etc and she says she's an adult and going to work thru it. But now ghosted since Thursday. Not looking good. Not sure if for real her family shut her down or it's an elaborate way of ghosting. Doesn't matter I suppose. Just have to see what happens.

So I immediately set about looking up girls I was close to closing with but ghosted when Layla hit. Probably hit 5+ girls back up. Sure enough one is like "wow what great timing I was just about to rejoin SA because my last thing didn't pan out. " And long story short no beating around the Bush. She is DTF after in person meeting and chemistry match. So meeting up in a few days.

Pays to keep the Rolodex hot and handy! Keep the bullpen warm because you never know when you will need a pitcher!

P.S. Midwestern you must give us an update or I will fly to Shanghai and kick you in the nuts. Fess up. What's the latest?I had a huge Rolodex for work, and finally threw it away a few years ago. It was hard for me to do it, because I kinda got proud of all the contacts that I accumulated over the years, LOL.

Did Layla ghost you immediately after you gave her $1,000 to help with her car payments? Good that you have another gal on deck. Good luck!

As for my situation, it is a freaking roller coaster. I'm still in the middle of the ride, but I'll give you an update in another thread.

Midwestern
09-09-20, 05:37
Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.

.The next day, she started her new job. Guess where? At a HJ MP. No lie. When she told me, it floored me. She then explained that she can make 3 x more money working at a HJ MP than at a regular minimum wage job. So, for two days, we had some back and forth. She was swearing that even though she'd be seeing men all day at her new job, that her heart really belonged to me and so I should trust her. Yeah right. So, I told her that we should just be friends.

Then suddenly, two days later, she quit her job. She said it was a disgusting job. No duh. Anyway, I went to see her, and when I saw her, my heart melted and we were all over each other. Later that night, she texted me that she's devoted to me and to our love, and to our future together. WTF?! I didn't know what to say. So, I just said, me too.

The next day, I decided that I needed to steer this ship into the right direction, and just have an arrangement, like what I always wanted. So, I came up with a two-part plan and acted on it.

Here's the first part.

I told her that I was already married and with a family. I knew this would cause a huge fucking firestorm, but I needed her to understand that I only wanted an arrangement. Anyway, sure enough, she was furious as hell, and I had to deal with her rage and wrath for two days. She eventually calmed down, and then she said she was going to delete my WeChat and that she was going to resume her job at the HJ MP. She said something like she now realizes that all men are disgusting, and so she might as well make a living off of it, and she also said something like those customers are disgusting, but I'm more disgusting because I'm a liar.

Here's the second part.

We now both know that we are both "bad" people. She is willing to give HJs for a living, and I am a married man but still mongers. We now know this about each other. (And hell, let's not forget that we had sex when we barely knew each other, in exchange for my paying her rent, so it's not like she was an angel ever. I'm even thinking that she might be a former pro, or at least a former HJ MP gal.) So, anyway, given that we now know that we are both "bad" people, I asked her to reconsider my initial proposal for an arrangement. She then sent me a picture of her middle finger, LOL.

But then, I tried to appeal to her sense of logic. I told her that she needs money, I need sex, and we actually like each other. (And as an aside, we both knew that we were never going to get married anyway. I'm almost twice her age, and I found out that she has a kid. And, she's from some remote rural part of China. In addition, I'm an American and my Chinese is very, very poor, and she can barely count to 5 in English. So, we both know we were never going to get married anyway.) Anyway, I think I started making some sense to her. She hasn't deleted my WeChat yet, and she reads my texts to her, and she replies, mostly with an insult, but sometimes with a question. And finally, she agreed to meet me one more time. She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done. I said okay.

So, that's where I am now. I am pondering what to do. Of course, I will meet her. But then what? Let's say we see each other and all is forgiven and we get back together. Then what? I am thinking about making the arrangement more explicit. Specifying the exact minimum number of times we must meet for sex. Otherwise, I feel like I'm going to waste both time and money. I do like her though. So, even though I know that I maybe should just cut bait and find another, I can honestly say that she will be very hard to replace. She has a great personality, she's caring, she's funny, she's sweet, she really likes me, and she has a smoking hot body.

Midwestern
09-09-20, 05:46
Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.Dood, you should always make sure they shower just before doing the deed. But the butt odor may be unavoidable. When I'm doing doggy, I always like to spread their ass cheeks so that I can get a full view, but whenever I do that, a waft of poop odor emanates. Oh well.

BrizLad
09-09-20, 10:47
But then, I tried to appeal to her sense of logic. I told her that she needs money, I need sex, and we actually like each other. (And as an aside, we both knew that we were never going to get married anyway. I'm almost twice her age, and I found out that she has a kid. And, she's from some remote rural part of China. In addition, I'm an American and my Chinese is very, very poor, and she can barely count to 5 in English. So, we both know we were never going to get married anyway.) Anyway, I think I started making some sense to her. She hasn't deleted my WeChat yet, and she reads my texts to her, and she replies, mostly with an insult, but sometimes with a question. And finally, she agreed to meet me one more time. She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done. I said okay..She has really gotten to you. Can you just try to remember it is just for lust? You are letting her control your outcome "She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done". Is that fair on you, yourself. You are setting yourself up for a big fail.

This all does sound like fun but she is walking all over you. "even I send him finger pic, the idiot still wants me".

But we all know when they are so hot, the exact perfect fantasy girl for s, we cannot pass until we prove ourselves.

Steve 9696
09-09-20, 11:09
I had a huge Rolodex for work, and finally threw it away a few years ago. It was hard for me to do it, because I kinda got proud of all the contacts that I accumulated over the years, LOL.

Did Layla ghost you immediately after you gave her $1,000 to help with her car payments? Good that you have another gal on deck. Good luck!

As for my situation, it is a freaking roller coaster. I'm still in the middle of the ride, but I'll give you an update in another thread.No she didn't ghost me after the $1000. On the contrary we were super BFGF and she was so excited about getting her car. And we met up again and went two rounds. We even had some frank talk about why she doesn't like to DFK and at first she played it off as too personal but then admitted I was too agressive and it made her uncomfortable. So we let her lead at her pace and we had some magical moments. Really really nice. There was also this great part where we were in mish and she says "look at me while you cum" and so I just stared into eyes while cranking one out. Super nice.

But on time between rounds she talked about being two months behind on her rent. And we had this hanging between us for a couple days but I said it was too much too soon. She said no big deal but maybe she figured she couldn't hit me for even bigger money. I see now quite clearly that her $200 price was a lowball and then going to work her way up with "necessary" help outs.

In retrospect there are lots of parts of her story about where she lives and her former fiancée and her job that just don't add up. But it would have been easy to just ghost me. Instead we were figuring out our next meet up when the drama with family hit and she went quiet. So who knows. I am not sweating it. Was nice while it lasted. And now we move on as we always do.

BrizLad
09-10-20, 00:39
But on time between rounds she talked about being two months behind on her rent. And we had this hanging between us for a couple days but I said it was too much too soon. She said no big deal but maybe she figured she couldn't hit me for even bigger money. I see now quite clearly that her $200 price was a lowball and then going to work her way up with "necessary" help outs.I am amazed at how many of the SBs have horrible debts and poor attitudes to money. Having a good body they get used to horny guys giving them easy money but eventually their body declines and us horny guys move onto the new younger ones.

Their problems can often not be solved with cash, if they are still incurring new debts and more bad fiance choices.

It's good to see that you can see the initial fee as being the 'entry' price.

Pessimist
09-10-20, 01:24
Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.I actually do take a shower with the vast majority of my sugar babes. Definitely w / the ones I am meeting for the first time. First, it is actually quite erotic. I got lucky a few times and got to have sex in the shower, of course bareback because I don't step into the shower with a condom in hand. But blowjob was more easily obtainable and I have done DATY a few times in the shower and those are really enjoyable. But the true objective is of course to wash the odors off. The reality is that a large percent of civilian girls have bad odor. Some are truly terrible. So, I spend more than 10 minutes in the shower thoroughly scrubbing them. I kinda get around the obvious motive by saying that I find it sensuous and enjoyable (which it is) and it is my true fetish, and request her to indulge me. Since they know they will get paid, they are not in a mood to say no. Some may be taken aback by the amount of scrubbing, as I put a lot of soap on my fingers and plunge deep inside pussy and all over the asshole and ass cheeks (not inside the asshole however). The thing is that some of these girls have such bad hygiene that even after all that scrubbing, many still have a lingering odor. There was this one blonde, looked like an angel, 9 for face and 8/9 for body, lovely smile but the whole bed smelled like poop when doing doggy; OMG, I almost lost my boner due to her overwhelming stink. I had to quickly reverse and do a mish, the only position in which the odor was far away and manageable. One of my regulars who I kept meeting for several months also had a bad odor but not as terrible as that of the above mentioned blonde. With this regular, call her Sylvia, I would literally take 10 to 15 minutes in the shower which only made the odor somewhat manageable. I never once did DATY on her; such a pity as her hole was juicy, inviting and had the exact shape and lips size which were attractive for me. She however was a sweetheart and did not mind me going for 2 shots, and the second one always in her mouth and also began doing bareback after the first few meets, and that made up for the odor. Still see her once in a while.

Midwestern
09-10-20, 01:42
No she didn't ghost me after the $1000. On the contrary we were super BFGF and she was so excited about getting her car. And we met up again and went two rounds. We even had some frank talk about why she doesn't like to DFK and at first she played it off as too personal but then admitted I was too agressive and it made her uncomfortable. So we let her lead at her pace and we had some magical moments. Really really nice. There was also this great part where we were in mish and she says "look at me while you cum" and so I just stared into eyes while cranking one out. Super nice.

But on time between rounds she talked about being two months behind on her rent. And we had this hanging between us for a couple days but I said it was too much too soon. She said no big deal but maybe she figured she couldn't hit me for even bigger money. I see now quite clearly that her $200 price was a lowball and then going to work her way up with "necessary" help outs.

In retrospect there are lots of parts of her story about where she lives and her former fiance and her job that just don't add up. But it would have been easy to just ghost me. Instead we were figuring out our next meet up when the drama with family hit and she went quiet. So who knows. I am not sweating it. Was nice while it lasted. And now we move on as we always do.Yeah, some SBs think the arrangement is more about occasional big ticket items. I had one SB in SF, she never asked for any money, she just wanted to be pampered. So, I thought great. Then, one day she asked me to buy her a cell phone. So, I did. Another month goes by, we keep seeing each other, then suddenly she asked me for $3000 to help her get through the next couple of months. At that point, I bailed. But if I did the math, I bet her pricing was on par if it had just been a PPM arrangement.

But that said, it seems like Layla was genuinely into you, and that something else is going on. But like you said, why sweat it, especially when you have your "rolodex. ".

Midwestern
09-10-20, 01:47
I am amazed at how many of the SBs have horrible debts and poor attitudes to money. Having a good body they get used to horny guys giving them easy money but eventually their body declines and us horny guys move onto the new younger ones.

Their problems can often not be solved with cash, if they are still incurring new debts and more bad fiance choices.

It's good to see that you can see the initial fee as being the 'entry' price.On the one hand, I agree that it is truly amazing. I had an arrangement with one gal for 3 k per month. Every time I gave it to her, she would go clothes shopping. This was during a time when she was unemployed. I just couldn't believe it. But on the other hand, it is their poor money management skills that partially explains why they are on SA.

And yeah, as they age, horny guys move onto younger ones, but these gals just start dating older guys. A 20 year old won't date a 60 year old, but a 40 year old will. So, while we rotate into younger gals, they just rotate into older guys.

Steve 9696
09-10-20, 02:03
Hahaha. So just as I am setting up Thursday with Jessica, who reappears but Layla? Yep she's back. So now who knows who I am seeing next!

Meanwhile I get a text from All time favorite Krystal that she's moved to NYC. About 5 hours drive.

Peaks and valleys baby. Feeling a peak!

PS I have to say it is deeply satisfying that Krystal and I are still connected. She’s moved twice. Changed phones. Broken a phone. And here she is. The goddess who when I apologized for taking so long to finish says “You can fuck me all night if u want!” And then sleeps over. OMG she’s the best. I simply must see her.

DramaFree11
09-10-20, 03:25
Hahaha. So just as I am setting up Thursday with Jessica, who reappears but Layla? Yep she's back. So now who knows who I am seeing next!

Meanwhile I get a text from All time favorite Krystal that she's moved to NYC. About 5 hours drive.

Peaks and valleys baby. Feeling a peak!

PS I have to say it is deeply satisfying that Krystal and I are still connected. Shes moved twice. Changed phones. Broken a phone. And here she is. The goddess who when I apologized for taking so long to finish says You can fuck me all night if u want! And then sleeps over. OMG shes the best. I simply must see her.Yes, those are the words we all want to hear. Most of the girls I have met in the states, stay 2-4 hours, one session, but in Mexico and Russia, much for likely for them to stay the night or multiple sessions. A couple of the girls I am meeting in MTY there is no issues, all night long or multiple sessions. When I negotiate with girls now I stay 2 sessions. I am debating to start back up on SA in Austin and San Antonio, but just not sure, I am sure it will be a big let down from Mexico. If I do I will insist on 2 sessions, or I will pass, save my money for MTY.

Great report as always, I just want to say I have learned a lot from you and others. Not sure about you guys CIA Stuff, but I do not need to hide my identity. I am careful, but not to the level you guys take it too, but never less very good information.

BrizLad
09-10-20, 05:26
but a 40 year old will. So, while we rotate into younger gals, they just rotate into older guys.That really is so true. Here in Brisbane, 20 year age gap is really the maximum that the public will toerlate. IE 60 year old walking around with pretty 40 year olds. When I'm in Philippines it seems that 60 -20 is acceptable. I really miss my trips to Asia.

Midwestern
09-10-20, 07:07
That really is so true. Here in Brisbane, 20 year age gap is really the maximum that the public will toerlate. IE 60 year old walking around with pretty 40 year olds. When I'm in Philippines it seems that 60 -20 is acceptable. I really miss my trips to Asia.Yeah, Thailand is similar to the Philippines in this regard of course. I always thought I'd retire to Thailand and enjoy the 20 year-olds when I got to my 60's or 70's. It's still a possibility, but I am discovering that Chinese girls also do not discriminate against older men. If you ask a Chinese girl if she prefers a 35 year old rich guy or a 55 year old rich guy, she will say she's indifferent. You might think I am exaggerating, but it really is true.

Midwestern
09-10-20, 07:19
We met today. She gave me a dirty look. I apologized. She then said get ready for a slap to the face, but she just tapped me gently. I again said sorry, and I gave her my best puppy dog eyes, and she said let's never talk about this again. Then, we proceeded to spend the next 3 hours together. Just walking around, holding hands, kissing, chatting, and finally lunch. It didn't feel awkward at all.

We didn't discuss any arrangement today, because I thought it was too soon to bring it up. My only damage today was the price of a meal and my time. But I had a great time. She makes me laugh. Plus, she's just really hot. When I saw her today, it seemed like every guy around was looking at her. Well, in her skin tight jeans and skin tight shirt, you'd have to be gay not to stare at her, LOL.

But now, I'm pretty horny, so I might have to spend the afternoon with a high end pro.


The next day, she started her new job. Guess where? At a HJ MP. No lie. When she told me, it floored me. She then explained that she can make 3 x more money working at a HJ MP than at a regular minimum wage job. So, for two days, we had some back and forth. She was swearing that even though she'd be seeing men all day at her new job, that her heart really belonged to me and so I should trust her. Yeah right. So, I told her that we should just be friends.

Then suddenly, two days later, she quit her job. She said it was a disgusting job. No duh. Anyway, I went to see her, and when I saw her, my heart melted and we were all over each other. Later that night, she texted me that she's devoted to me and to our love, and to our future together. WTF?! I didn't know what to say. So, I just said, me too.

The next day, I decided that I needed to steer this ship into the right direction, and just have an arrangement, like what I always wanted. So, I came up with a two-part plan and acted on it.

Here's the first part.

I told her that I was already married and with a family. I knew this would cause a huge fucking firestorm, but I needed her to understand that I only wanted an arrangement. Anyway, sure enough, she was furious as hell, and I had to deal with her rage and wrath for two days. She eventually calmed down, and then she said she was going to delete my WeChat and that she was going to resume her job at the HJ MP. She said something like she now realizes that all men are disgusting, and so she might as well make a living off of it, and she also said something like those customers are disgusting, but I'm more disgusting because I'm a liar.

Here's the second part.

We now both know that we are both "bad" people. She is willing to give HJs for a living, and I am a married man but still mongers. We now know this about each other. (And hell, let's not forget that we had sex when we barely knew each other, in exchange for my paying her rent, so it's not like she was an angel ever. I'm even thinking that she might be a former pro, or at least a former HJ MP gal.) So, anyway, given that we now know that we are both "bad" people, I asked her to reconsider my initial proposal for an arrangement. She then sent me a picture of her middle finger, LOL.

But then, I tried to appeal to her sense of logic. I told her that she needs money, I need sex, and we actually like each other. (And as an aside, we both knew that we were never going to get married anyway. I'm almost twice her age, and I found out that she has a kid. And, she's from some remote rural part of China. In addition, I'm an American and my Chinese is very, very poor, and she can barely count to 5 in English. So, we both know we were never going to get married anyway.) Anyway, I think I started making some sense to her. She hasn't deleted my WeChat yet, and she reads my texts to her, and she replies, mostly with an insult, but sometimes with a question. And finally, she agreed to meet me one more time. She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done. I said okay.

So, that's where I am now. I am pondering what to do. Of course, I will meet her. But then what? Let's say we see each other and all is forgiven and we get back together. Then what? I am thinking about making the arrangement more explicit. Specifying the exact minimum number of times we must meet for sex. Otherwise, I feel like I'm going to waste both time and money. I do like her though. So, even though I know that I maybe should just cut bait and find another, I can honestly say that she will be very hard to replace. She has a great personality, she's caring, she's funny, she's sweet, she really likes me, and she has a smoking hot body.

Steve 9696
09-10-20, 12:17
We met today. She gave me a dirty look. I apologized. She then said get ready for a slap to the face, but she just tapped me gently. I again said sorry, and I gave her my best puppy dog eyes, and she said let's never talk about this again. Then, we proceeded to spend the next 3 hours together. Just walking around, holding hands, kissing, chatting, and finally lunch. It didn't feel awkward at all.

We didn't discuss any arrangement today, because I thought it was too soon to bring it up. My only damage today was the price of a meal and my time. But I had a great time. She makes me laugh. Plus, she's just really hot. When I saw her today, it seemed like every guy around was looking at her. Well, in her skin tight jeans and skin tight shirt, you'd have to be gay not to stare at her, LOL.

But now, I'm pretty horny, so I might have to spend the afternoon with a high end pro.Kudos MW. Treat her like a girlfriend and she'll act like a girlfriend. She needs this part of the relationship. And as you are seeing, non-bedroom time can be fun when you are with a girl who:

1. Genuinely likes you.

2. Is the hottest girl in the room.

My club time with Thifany and just kicking around London with this doll on my arm were truly highlights. You can get sex anywhere. You can't find affection anywhere - it's the most difficult to acquire - you cant just buy it outright. Enjoy it.

Midwestern
09-10-20, 13:14
Kudos MW. Treat her like a girlfriend and she'll act like a girlfriend. She needs this part of the relationship. And as you are seeing, non-bedroom time can be fun when you are with a girl who:

1. Genuinely likes you.

2. Is the hottest girl in the room.

My club time with Thifany and just kicking around London with this doll on my arm were truly highlights. You can get sex anywhere. You can't find affection anywhere - it's the most difficult to acquire - you cant just buy it outright. Enjoy it.Yeah, I do like the affection a lot. It's very satisfying. I might fall in love with her. It's not lust. She's just so warm and loving. She kept feeding me at lunch today, like we're a real couple.

FYI, I texted the receptionist today, and she still hasn't found a new job yet, and so I'll probably bareback her tomorrow. I'm probably the only guy that's she's ever prostituted herself to. On a certain level, she hates both me and herself.

SonicBoom1
09-10-20, 13:52
You can get sex anywhere. You can't find affection anywhere - it's the most difficult to acquire - you cant just buy it outright. Enjoy it.But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.

Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.

WyattEarp
09-10-20, 15:08
Dood, you should always make sure they shower just before doing the deed. But the butt odor may be unavoidable. When I'm doing doggy, I always like to spread their ass cheeks so that I can get a full view, but whenever I do that, a waft of poop odor emanates. Oh well.Steve9696, as a regular on the Brazil boards you must share my Brazil experience. Those Brazilian girls are so used to giving up anal that they have their asses washed out thoroughly before a sexual encounter. LOL.

Elvis 2008
09-10-20, 15:18
But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere".
Its important not to delude ourselves.With American women, the minute you stop paying, the pussy stops. Here in Mexico, I was with a Mexican woman two nights ago. We went it all night long, and she didn't ask for a dime. That was the one in the black bathing suit.

Last night, I was with the one in the bikini. She had not been good about texting or calling, and I kind of laid down the law with her. Do you want a pay per meet deal I asked or a novia / GF / SB type relationship? She wanted the latter. I paid her very little last night, but she was not expecting it. She is a Vennie and she really wants me to send money to her parents more than anything. She has modeled all over the world, and she was in a 7 year relationship she just got out of. You would think she was whoring around but when I mentioned her having a boyfriend, and that I did not care if she did, she went off on me. She told me that she was not like that. Hell, I have told both of them I am seeing other people, and they are both cool with it.

Thing is Sonic, you are like I was. You have a john mindset. Women do not like to think of themselves as working girls and get paid for it. When I go abroad, I offer nothing and see how it goes. If they bring up money, then I will offer a price. Honestly, I think the women like a man of means who can help them if they need it more than wanting to give them a wage.

Two of my Colombian chicas hit me up last week. One wanted an air fryer, and she promised, "I will cook you very good healthy things with it. ", and I sent her $50. The other told me that not being able to go to the gym was making her fat, and she depressingly showed me a small roll. She wanted a treadmill, found a good deal, and I gave her $200 for that. Is that paying for it? Maybe, but I am going to get some good food and a hotter chick because of it. The last few times I saw both of them, I did not end the date with cash.

How often will the pussy dry up when you start paying? In the USA, it is a done deal, you will be cut off, but try not paying abroad and see what happens, you might be surprised.

I get guys asking me all the time, "How much for her? And I always, "how about you start by not offering anything and see how it goes?" I do not like to feel like I am paying for it, and it may surprise you but the women do not either.

Elvis 2008
09-10-20, 15:35
The pics. Shoot, it is not letting me load Chica#2.

LatinaLover#1
09-10-20, 15:42
But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.

Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.In my many years in this hobby my moto has always been: "If you fall in love on your trips, your falling in love by yourself. " Having met probably hundreds of women over my career, I will tell you, this has been very difficult to stick to more than once. Fell in love with a Carioca years ago, drop dead natural beauty resembled Jessica Alba, we went to Buzios for a few days and asked her to move in with me and she said yes. Lucky for me she saw a Garota leaving my apartment a few days later and as most of you know what a pissed off Brasilera is like. Romance over! The other was in Costa Rica from Perez Zeladon, again I was in love by myself. Finally I met a Beautiful Colombiana. A casacita, non drinker, no makeup, no fume, totally natural, brilliant student in the Nat'l University been together for over 3 years now. But here's the difference, she has never been a prepago, I think an important distinction if you looking for love. How you meet a woman has an enormous impact on the future of the relationship. Good luck, and guard your heart brothers.

BrizLad
09-11-20, 00:20
. Hell, I have told both of them I am seeing other people, and they are both cool with it.In my experience, they are cool with it because they too are seeing other people. They just prefer not to tell you.

Midwestern
09-11-20, 00:49
But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.

Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.For me, the way scarier thing would be if she said I didn't have to pay her. Then I'm totally screwed because I definitely do not want a real relationship. So, I don't mind if she's giving me the affection for money. It's why I am seeking an arrangement, after all. We can go to Match for a relationship, and we can go to other websites for pros. SA and arrangements are something in-between.

Midwestern
09-11-20, 01:20
Hell, I have told both of them I am seeing other people, and they are both cool with it.Exactly. This is why I told my new GF that I'm married with a family. There was a firestorm initially, but if she's not going to be cool with it, then I needed to bail now. This is also why I prefer being with semi-pros, pros, arrangements, and MP gals. Because they are also seeing other people, and so we all know the score going into this game. I was seeing a married chick last year who had no desire of breaking up her family, and that was great. For a while, I was telling girls that I was divorced, but that could go either way, and now I believe it's best to let them know that any relationship we have may not be exclusive.

Elvis 2008
09-11-20, 06:06
In my experience, they are cool with it because they too are seeing other people. They just prefer not to tell you.Once you favorite people on Seeking, you can see when they log in. So yeah, there are some who swear their loyalty to me and are on the site the next day, but there are others, in fact, I would say most who say they are only seeing me, who have given up the site. Honestly, I usually do not bring up he loyalty thing, the women do. Sure, they could get another profile if they are smart, but honestly most do not know how I track them. Even if they try to hide their logins, I can still see when they log on.

It is amusing to look at their social media accounts and see what is going on. I have a female friend who has shown me a ton of tricks with social media. It is like a law for the under 30 types to post their whole lives online. I have to be careful that the women do not post photos of us.

I usually do not even have to ask for women's Instagram accounts, the women throw them at me but forget they have given me access. I saw one with a video on it with a heart shaped frame of a guy with her and him kissing her. I asked the woman about this, and she denied this guy was her boyfriend. When I told my female friend about this, she looked at it like a challenge, checked out who was liking her IG photos, and she picked up her boyfriend in no time. She proudly said, "I am the queen bee of social media stalking."

For most women, I really do not care. If they are totally into me when we are together that is all I can ask for. I try to keep those as pay per meet hookerish types. In fact, it is actually kind of fun needling the ones that you know are playing around with others about how loyal they are to you.

Steve 9696
09-11-20, 23:11
But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.

Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.Honestly I believe the affection is real with some girls. But frankly I don't care. Just so long as I never know! Of course Brasileiras have a distinct advantage here where they have the unique ability to be in the moment and totally committed.

I do feel like Thifany and I had real affection. I mean we would kiss for 5 or more minutes And she would never break the liplock first. Not once. Ever. She didn't have to do that. And then she got engaged three months later. Brasileiras!

And a few other girls Ive felt strong affection with — not just in the bedroom. But as long as I don't know the truth I don't care.

DramaFree11
09-12-20, 14:45
Once you favorite people on Seeking, you can see when they log in. So yeah, there are some who swear their loyalty to me and are on the site the next day, but there are others, in fact, I would say most who say they are only seeing me, who have given up the site. Honestly, I usually do not bring up he loyalty thing, the women do. Sure, they could get another profile if they are smart, but honestly most do not know how I track them. Even if they try to hide their logins, I can still see when they log on.

It is amusing to look at their social media accounts and see what is going on. I have a female friend who has shown me a ton of tricks with social media. It is like a law for the under 30 types to post their whole lives online. I have to be careful that the women do not post photos of us.

I usually do not even have to ask for women's Instagram accounts, the women throw them at me but forget they have given me access. I saw one with a video on it with a heart shaped frame of a guy with her and him kissing her. I asked the woman about this, and she denied this guy was her boyfriend. When I told my female friend about this, she looked at it like a challenge, checked out who was liking her IG photos, and she picked up her boyfriend in no time. She proudly said, "I am the queen bee of social media stalking."

For most women, I really do not care. If they are totally into me when we are together that is all I can ask for. I try to keep those as pay per meet hookerish types. In fact, it is actually kind of fun needling the ones that you know are playing around with others about how loyal they are to you.For the most part I do not care either, there are rare occasions. Some try to make me jealous, but those days are pretty much gone, having too much fun. I do not look at there social media, better to not know anything, then I can play dumb.

WyattEarp
09-12-20, 16:18
Honestly I believe the affection is real with some girls. But frankly I don't care. Just so long as I never know! Of course Brasileiras have a distinct advantage here where they have the unique ability to be in the moment and totally committed..As you say, Brasileiras can be totally in the moment. Brazilian women are addictive that way. And yes, they can turn it off as fast as that and be on to the next guy. They are however almost always "with you" when you are together. I think Brasileiras have a strong sense of romance.

I'm not sure if you have said that you don't bother with SA when you are in Brazil. It's almost unnecessary. While not every Brazilian escort is going to hang out with you, there are plenty of them that like having a good time and chilling outside the bedroom.

Steve 9696
09-12-20, 19:43
As you say, Brasileiras can be totally in the moment. Brazilian women are addictive that way. And yes, they can turn it off as fast as that and be on to the next guy. They are however almost always "with you" when you are together. I think Brasileiras have a strong sense of romance.

I'm not sure if you have said that you don't bother with SA when you are in Brazil. It's almost unnecessary. While not every Brazilian escort is going to hang out with you, there are plenty of them that like having a good time and chilling outside the bedroom.Exactly. Brazil is some place I would never do SA. The Boates are simply too awesome. And you get romance right there in the club. Karina and I chattted and danced and kissed for two hours before getting a room. And she invited me to the beach next day. Andressa and Josy both spent an hour or more with me before taking it to the room. Thifany was a five hour affair with two rounds. Carolina I guarantee was super sad when I had to leave at 1 Am our second time together. She clearly wanted me to stay for another round and overnight.

Brasileiras are just unique and wonderful.

Elvis 2008
09-12-20, 20:55
I mean we would kiss for 5 or more minutes And she would never break the liplock first. Not once. Ever. She didn't have to do that. And then she got engaged three months later. Brasileiras!

And a few other girls Ive felt strong affection with not just in the bedroom. But as long as I don't know the truth I don't care.Yep, as long as they are loyal to me when we are together, I am good.

SpiderRider
09-13-20, 00:04
In my many years in this hobby my moto has always been: "If you fall in love on your trips, your falling in love by yourself. " Having met probably hundreds of women over my career, I will tell you, this has been very difficult to stick to more than once. Fell in love with a Carioca years ago, drop dead natural beauty resembled Jessica Alba, we went to Buzios for a few days and asked her to move in with me and she said yes. Lucky for me she saw a Garota leaving my apartment a few days later and as most of you know what a pissed off Brasilera is like. Romance over! The other was in Costa Rica from Perez Zeladon, again I was in love by myself. Finally I met a Beautiful Colombiana. A casacita, non drinker, no makeup, no fume, totally natural, brilliant student in the Nat'l University been together for over 3 years now. But here's the difference, she has never been a prepago, I think an important distinction if you looking for love. How you meet a woman has an enormous impact on the future of the relationship. Good luck, and guard your heart brothers.Good post.

BrizLad
09-13-20, 02:07
Do you guys use different profiles for your at home town SBs and your on trip SBs?

I feel that my story would be different for each profile and using the same profile would signal my activities to the others.

Also, does anyone research the other SD profiles in your area or have an idea of what particular words attract SBs?

Planning on trashing my old profile and starting a new one.

Midwestern
09-14-20, 00:29
Here are my humble suggestions, which are based on my experience and based on what SBs have told or revealed to me:

(1) Set your age at around mid-40's. Many SBs have told me that young SDs are assholes. And of course, many of them think SDs over 50 are a bit too old, since they want to find someone who can keep up with them in and out of the bedroom.

(2) Add an inch or two to your height if you're short. Every short guy lies about their height, so if you're short, then you might as well lie about yours too.

(3) Consider using a high number for your net worth. I tinkered with this quite a bit, and I found that using a high net worth attracted more girls, obviously, but to my surprise these girls asked me less about giving them money. I think some girls don't seek the richer guys just to get more money, but they just want to be with richer guys. It doesn't mean you have to show up in a phat ride. Most girls understand that many rich guys don't show off their wealth.

(4) For my profile description, one of the things that I wrote was that I was looking for an occasional travel partner. This got a lot of girls' attentions. Seems that a lot of girls want to take a vacation every once in a while.

(5) For keywords in my profile, I found that "easy going" and "smart" got many SBs' attentions.

Good luck.


Do you guys use different profiles for your at home town SBs and your on trip SBs?

I feel that my story would be different for each profile and using the same profile would signal my activities to the others.

Also, does anyone research the other SD profiles in your area or have an idea of what particular words attract SBs?

Planning on trashing my old profile and starting a new one.

BrizLad
09-14-20, 05:55
Here are my humble suggestions, which are based on my experience and based on what SBs have told or revealed to me:
Good luck.Thanks for the tips. I'm sure lots of guys embellish their wealth and their height.

I'll set something up later this month.

Steve 9696
09-14-20, 17:40
First — great tips MW. Agree with all. As far as the OP I just added a Covid Update at the bottom on my profile that says I after a local girl right now. Seems to be working fine.

So if you recall Layla appeared to Ghost me about halfway thru our $1000 arrangement month. But then came back. As luck would have it we were able to see each other a lot over a couple days. As in fuck at night. Fuck in the morning (different visit). Then next day at night and then in the morning. So really four visits in total like back to back. It's nice not to be pulling out the wallet every time.

She is asked if we are moving to Monthly and I Said sure. Because I do like not dealing with it. Maybe I come in low one month and high another. I am OK with that and like the casualness of it. This is my first arrangement other than PPM and it has its pluses.

I know of course when it ends I will probably be eating all or a portion of that month but that's Ok. Actually going to suggest a bi-monthly $500 instead which will keep things more in check.

DramaFree11
09-14-20, 17:49
First great tips MW. Agree with all. As far as the OP I just added a Covid Update at the bottom on my profile that says I after a local girl right now. Seems to be working fine.

So if you recall Layla appeared to Ghost me about halfway thru our $1000 arrangement month. But then came back. As luck would have it we were able to see each other a lot over a couple days. As in fuck at night. Fuck in the morning (different visit). Then next day at night and then in the morning. So really four visits in total like back to back. It's nice not to be pulling out the wallet every time.

She is asked if we are moving to Monthly and I Said sure. Because I do like not dealing with it. Maybe I come in low one month and high another. I am OK with that and like the casualness of it. This is my first arrangement other than PPM and it has its pluses.

I know of course when it ends I will probably be eating all or a portion of that month but that's Ok. Actually going to suggest a bi-monthly $500 instead which will keep things more in check.I have tried monthly a couple times, but it normally ends fairly quickly. My expectations go up. Work, vacations, friends and other issues usually get in the way. I would pay weekly, to prevent being scammed, but it never seems to work out. You would think it would be easier, but not the cases, plus the incentive for the girl to behave and be on time, kind of goes out the window. Just my opinion.

BrizLad
09-14-20, 23:27
I have tried monthly a couple times, but it normally ends fairly quickly. My expectations go up. Work, vacations, friends and other issues usually get in the way. I would pay weekly, to prevent being scammed, but it never seems to work out. You would think it would be easier, but not the cases, plus the incentive for the girl to behave and be on time, kind of goes out the window. Just my opinion.I did set up a weekly $500 automated payment to the SBs account. That was fine but over time she lost the connection between performing in bed and the reason for being paid.

As Steve 9696 said when it ends you basically get ripped off the final payment.

Midwestern
09-15-20, 02:24
I have tried monthly a couple times, but it normally ends fairly quickly. My expectations go up. Work, vacations, friends and other issues usually get in the way. I would pay weekly, to prevent being scammed, but it never seems to work out. You would think it would be easier, but not the cases, plus the incentive for the girl to behave and be on time, kind of goes out the window. Just my opinion.I had a few monthly allowance arrangements. For two of them, we kept doing the math in our heads all the time. I was trying to see her enough times so that the amount was below $500 per meet, and she was trying to see me as little as possible so that she was making more than $500 per meet. Needless to say, both arrangements ended quickly. However, one monthly allowance arrangement worked really well for me, but that was only because she was crazy about me, and even gave me a key to her apartment. She wanted me to see her every day. So, from my limited experience with monthly allowance arrangements, I would only go into one if she seemed like she was crazy about me.

I am about to start a new monthly allowance arrangement ($1,200 per month), because she seems to be genuinely into me. For example, she keeps complaining that we don't spend enough time together. But we are currently doing too much date stuff and not spending enough time between the sheets. Eventually, if I don't average at least 3 lays per month for the first 3 months, then I will bail. Like Steven said, I will probably have to eat that last month's allowance.

DramaFree11
09-15-20, 02:52
I had a few monthly allowance arrangements. For two of them, we kept doing the math in our heads all the time. I was trying to see her enough times so that the amount was below $500 per meet, and she was trying to see me as little as possible so that she was making more than $500 per meet. Needless to say, both arrangements ended quickly. However, one monthly allowance arrangement worked really well for me, but that was only because she was crazy about me, and even gave me a key to her apartment. She wanted me to see her every day. So, from my limited experience with monthly allowance arrangements, I would only go into one if she seemed like she was crazy about me.

Sounds like my last monthly arrangement. She wanted more and give less. She was crazy. She later called me back, but I finally blocked her, long story, but it was time to move on...

I am about to start a new monthly allowance arrangement ($1,200 per month), because she seems to be genuinely into me. For example, she keeps complaining that we don't spend enough time together. But we are currently doing too much date stuff and not spending enough time between the sheets. Eventually, if I don't average at least 3 lays per month for the first 3 months, then I will bail. Like Steven said, I will probably have to eat that last month's allowance.I would only do a monthly arrangement were we met twice a week, if I was going to invest the time and money. Again sounds easy, but something always comes up.

DramaFree11
09-15-20, 02:59
I did set up a weekly $500 automated payment to the SBs account. That was fine but over time she lost the connection between performing in bed and the reason for being paid.

As Steve 9696 said when it ends you basically get ripped off the final payment.I can relate. Be careful with automatic payments, your taxes need to be perfect. Just in case you get you ever get audit, it is major red flag. I am self employed and have been audited, just be careful with PayPal and automatic payments, it can be a major issue. I am more worried about this then my privacy. The IRS has a license to lie.

WyattEarp
09-15-20, 15:58
I did set up a weekly $500 automated payment to the SBs account. That was fine but over time she lost the connection between performing in bed and the reason for being paid.

As Steve 9696 said when it ends you basically get ripped off the final payment.

I also like Steve's analogy about SB transactions:

"Remember the cow and meat analogy. No one wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of him. I want to buy the steak a long distance away from the killing. Keep the sex and the money as distant as possible."

In the case of this young woman, the sex and money have gotten way too far apart. You'll have to remind her that you are not a vegetarian.

LshRoomer
09-15-20, 20:51
Mongers,

COVID has f'd my normal travel plans and has left me with quite of bit of excess cash. I've been considering hitting Asia for about a week (Singapore specifically) when travel becomes a thing again.

For those of you that have experience in Asia, a few questions:

Where would you recommend to go?

Is Singapore worth a visit?

Use SA or not?

Where would you avoid?

I know I can read the Singapore thread and I will, but I want to know more about the GFE side of life, not just the AMP or bar girls, etc.

Steve 9696
09-15-20, 23:11
Mongers,

COVID has f'd my normal travel plans and has left me with quite of bit of excess cash. I've been considering hitting Asia for about a week (Singapore specifically) when travel becomes a thing again.

For those of you that have experience in Asia, a few questions:

Where would you recommend to go?

Is Singapore worth a visit?

Use SA or not?

Where would you avoid?

I know I can read the Singapore thread and I will, but I want to know more about the GFE side of life, not just the AMP or bar girls, etc.Do I recall you are in Central Europe? Because if you are from the US you are fucked. No country is foolish enough to let us in!

If you can get into Asia, Singapore is NOT recommended. Even without Covid it's a pretty tight scene.

In Asia I'the probably go to Japan right now as safest. Great options there. China has shut down P4 P. Boo. Thailand is always good but a bit too Wild West right now for my taste.

If you can go in Europe Switzerland and Austria are both open and FKK. And of course my Ro Girls in London are getting fucked right and left without me. So I'the head there if you can.

WyattEarp
09-16-20, 00:15
In Asia I'the probably go to Japan right now as safest. Great options there. China has shut down P4 P. Boo. Thailand is always good but a bit too Wild West right now for my taste.What makes Thailand the Wild West in your opinion? Granted the scene is a neon sexual Disneyland. There are ways to put yourself out there and meet willing Thai female partners away from the bright lights and meat market atmospheres. I do find Thai women do be some of the most sexual women in Asia. I'll have number 33 please. ;)

As far as COVID, the Thai people did a diligent job of controlling it. They have had only 58 deaths. I have not kept up on whether they were currently shutting down the go-go bars and massage parlors in Bangkok and Pattaya. One thing is for sure some of these countries have taken advantage of the rapid development in testing. You might be able to play in Thailand if you take a test on arrival.

Steve 9696
09-16-20, 00:53
What makes Thailand the Wild West in your opinion? Granted the scene is a neon sexual Disneyland. There are ways to put yourself out there and meet willing Thai female partners away from the bright lights and meat market atmospheres. I do find Thai women do be some of the most sexual women in Asia. I'll have number 33 please. ;)

As far as COVID, the Thai people did a diligent job of controlling it. They have had only 58 deaths. I have not kept up on whether they were currently shutting down the go-go bars and massage parlors in Bangkok and Pattaya. One thing is for sure some of these countries have taken advantage of the rapid development in testing. You might be able to play in Thailand if you take a test on arrival.Yeah sorry I have no issue with the glitz and glam and sex on display. Thailand is uniquely raunchy and it has its appeal. I've just noticed it's kinda wide open without any social distancing. Gogos still rocking but with less patrons. Was assuming this was unwise but as you say maybe it's under control.

Guys should judge for themselves. Bangkok thread is quite active.

P.S. Here's the funniest thing about Thailand. Prostitution is illegal. But it's sooooo not illegal in practice. When I checked into the hotel they give you a little card that says says "If you bring a girl back to your room overnight, she is not entitled to the free breakfast. " Hahaha I laughed so hard. Yeah. Illegal. Right. LOL.

Midwestern
09-16-20, 01:38
Mongers,

Is Singapore worth a visit?

Use SA or not?

Singapore used to be great for mongering, but not anymore. But they still have a good takeout scene (e. G. , Ipanema and Brix). But the prices are crazy. The Singapore forum even has a SA subforum, and it looks like the PPM rate is also ridiculously high. Keep in mind that SG is an island, and so everything is expensive. A mug of beer in a bar is over $20. But hotels look the other way when you bring someone in, and there's also a lot of short-time hotels too, which are surprisingly cheap, but this means you have to have your passport with you while mongering. Prostitution is legal in SG, but the girls and the locations have to checked and registered with the authorities, so most pros in SG work illegally. My buddy in SG says the scene is pretty dry. Most of the Chinese girls are still in China. Most of the Vietnamese girls are still in Vietnam. You get the idea.


Yeah sorry I have no issue with the glitz and glam and sex on display. Thailand is uniquely raunchy and it has its appeal. I've just noticed it's kinda wide open without any social distancing. Gogos still rocking but with less patrons. Was assuming this was unwise but as you say maybe it's under control.

Guys should judge for themselves. Bangkok thread is quite active.

P.S. Here's the funniest thing about Thailand. Prostitution is illegal. But it's sooooo not illegal in practice. When I checked into the hotel they give you a little card that says says "If you bring a girl back to your room overnight, she is not entitled to the free breakfast. " Hahaha I laughed so hard. Yeah. Illegal. Right. LOL.LOL, I have a similar story. One time, my flight got into Bangkok so late, that I decided to stay at the airport hotel that night. About 30 minutes after I check into my room, there's a knock on the door. It's a super hot pro, asking me if I'd like to be serviced. I was so surprised, that for some reason, all I could say was, "uhhhhhh,. No. ".

Anyway, Bangkok and Pattaya should be on every monger's to-do list.

Elvis 2008
09-16-20, 03:16
Singapore used to be great for mongering, but not anymore. But they still have a good takeout scene (e. G. , Ipanema and Brix). But the prices are crazy. The Singapore forum even has a SA subforum, and it looks like the PPM rate is also ridiculously high. Keep in mind that SG is an island, and so everything is expensive.
Anyway, Bangkok and Pattaya should be on every monger's to-do list.I was not mongering when I did my Asia adventure. Thing is that I heard all about these Thai women, and I doubt that I could not get it up for them because they all looked like they were 15 tome. LOL.

I was on a cruise and an old British businessman was at my table telling me as the young lad about the ways of the world. We went from Singapore to Malaysia to Indonesia, and he mentioned that as the resources got more rich, the countries got poorer. He also said to notice that the fewer Chinese there were, the less the wealth was. This was back when China was still a poor country.

Jakarta, Indonesia was such a shithole, and the traffic was awful, but the women were plentiful and beautiful. I remember going to the mall and having six women wait on me and half of them were hot. When I went to Bali, I saw these women doing their version of the Hula with their hips swaying to and fro. Shit were they hot.

Thing about Singapore with all its rules though was how fucking fun it was. They had that whole island as an amusement park, the night safari, the incredible bird show, and most incredible aquarium I had ever seen. I remember children running around free in the street like I did in my childhood and it is something sadly you do not see much in the USA any more.

I think Indonesia may be the best place to monger for me then, but I am not sure I would want to live there. MW, any thoughts on Indonesia?

LshRoomer
09-16-20, 05:38
Yeah sorry I have no issue with the glitz and glam and sex on display. Thailand is uniquely raunchy and it has its appeal. I've just noticed it's kinda wide open without any social distancing. Gogos still rocking but with less patrons. Was assuming this was unwise but as you say maybe it's under control.

Guys should judge for themselves. Bangkok thread is quite active.

P.S. Here's the funniest thing about Thailand. Prostitution is illegal. But it's sooooo not illegal in practice. When I checked into the hotel they give you a little card that says says "If you bring a girl back to your room overnight, she is not entitled to the free breakfast. " Hahaha I laughed so hard. Yeah. Illegal. Right. LOL.Thanks for all the info. It has helped out.

I'm stuck in the US unfortunately. But I would love to taste some central european juices these days LOL.

I'm looking to travel hopefully next year and I was thinking to try something new. I've been to Europe countless times and as I write this I think of some of the chicks that I want to see when I can get there again. Haven't had the FKK experience yet, or the asian experience. I've been to Japan, but wasn't mongering then. So I was considering where to go once Americans can easily cross borders again.

It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.

Midwestern
09-16-20, 06:48
MW, any thoughts on Indonesia?I've been to Jakarta, Bali, and Batam. And I never liked it that much. I guess Indo gals are not my type. I just don't like their physical appearance. Same with Filipinos. I actually am not a huge fan of Thai girls either, but I only recommended Bangkok and Pattaya just for the experience, which is fucking crazy. I can't even begin to explain it.

Nounce
09-16-20, 08:03
It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try ThailandI personally prefer Thailand. I think it is worth a visit for the experience alone. The accommodation like hotel and food are better and plenty. More varieties, I can go to MPs during day time, soapies in the evening, clubs and freelancer spots during night time.

Jakarta is pretty good and accessible because it has some large clubs / brothels that you can easily get girls. SA I think will work pretty well here. It is the least expensive too. Vietnam is also good but you probably will be lost without a guide and the prices in some popular places are increasing rapidly.

Steve 9696
09-16-20, 13:04
Thanks for all the info. It has helped out.

I'm stuck in the US unfortunately. But I would love to taste some central european juices these days LOL.

I'm looking to travel hopefully next year and I was thinking to try something new. I've been to Europe countless times and as I write this I think of some of the chicks that I want to see when I can get there again. Haven't had the FKK experience yet, or the asian experience. I've been to Japan, but wasn't mongering then. So I was considering where to go once Americans can easily cross borders again.

It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.I know we all vary but if you had the choice I would do Brazil, FKK, London, and Thailand in that order. (I know London was not on your list but wow the Romanian incall there! I know this is the SA forum but if I get a moment I'll post my intros to Brazil, FKK, and Thailand as they may be useful to this travel starved group for future planning.

WyattEarp
09-16-20, 14:24
I know we all vary but if you had the choice I would do Brazil, FKK, London, and Thailand in that order. (I know London was not on your list but wow the Romanian incall there! I know this is the SA forum but if I get a moment I'll post my intros to Brazil, FKK, and Thailand as they may be useful to this travel starved group for future planning.All I would say is the four destinations are so very different. I think it's best for a newbies to decide what they want out of a trip then decide. I personally would put Brazil at the top of my list so long as I spent a few days on the beach in Rio. This along with ample time in Sao Paulo.

I absolutely love London the city, but there are also other great cities for escorts. It only takes a few good escorts to have a good time. I don't have any experience with FKK, but this would probably be more a sexual destination for me as I prefer other vacation spots. I also hear a lot of disappointment in the typical FKK girl service level.

Thailand is just fucking crazy as a sexual theme park. While the girls are definitely not as sexual Brazileiras, they have a certain sweetness and openness. If you tire of submissive girls you just have to do a little more searching and screening in Thailand..

As far as one member saying he didn't care for Thai girls, I find Thai girls are a good mix of the dark-complected Southeast Asian look and the lighter Chinese/Vietnamese appearance. I think they are a bit taller than average for Asia. So with that you will find all sorts of builds. Some Thai girls have long legs. Some are curvier. Of course, we are talking about the Asian standard. I'm a bit biased because I have been with some great Thai working girls who were both sex partners and tour guides.

WyattEarp
09-16-20, 14:50
I just caught up on the Pattaya thread. Apparently, Thailand currently has a 14 day quarantine. I suspect they have hotels monitoring guests.

Steve 9696
09-16-20, 17:16
Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.

So what is this crazy FKK I speak of?

Imagine if you will a very large building -- perhaps a warehouse -- that has been lavishly outfitted inside with a men's paradise. Buffet, sauna, jacuzzi, massage, pool, bar, relaxation areas and attractive ladies galore. And oh, yeah, the ladies are naked. Did I mention they all want to fuck you? Use the onsite rooms for your carnal pleasures; then rinse and repeat -- as many times as you have stamina and money for!

The drill is pretty much the same at each FKK and as you will see it is designed as the perfect place to start your journey to a better life. You know on TV where the guy gets caught with perfume or a hair or lipstick on his collar? That is never going to happen here because the Germans have engineered the perfect experience -- with virtually guaranteed no trace evidence left behind. Here's how it goes (I'll use Sharks, my favorite, to describe it):

When you enter the FKK, you pay your entry fee ($90-100 USD at nice ones) which entitles you to the full use of the facility and its amenities (sauna, buffet, lounges, non-alcohoic drinks) -- alcoholic drinks, massages, and girls' services are extra. You are issued a towel, robe, flip flops, and a wristband with key and they point you to the locker room. Here you get out of your street clothes, take a shower and suit up in a towel or robe and head into the club. Bring your wallet and condoms with you, as you will put these in a separate small locker when you enter. Prepare to be amazed!

Sharks is huge and there are girls everywhere. There is a big central bar where you can get your favorite cocktail or beer and start figuring out who tickles your fancy. If it's your first time here, you will be overwhelmed with selection. Blondes, brunettes, big fake tits, A cups, short, tall, skinny, thick. It's all here -- and they are all pretty in their own way. Just settle in and enjoy the spectacle. Generally you will have a few thoughts in this order:

1 This is fucking amazing!

2 Surely this can't be legal.

3 This must be what heaven is like if god knew what the fuck he is doing.

You will probably be approached by one or more girls who want you to go to the room with you. Almost 100% of the time you should NOT go with these girls. They tend to be the ones needing business or planning to shark you for big money. You are better off seeking out the girl you want if you are a newbie.

The general drill is to make the most of your entry fee and spend as much time as humanly possible. Find a girl, negotiate the fee / services (generally 50-100 E / half hour) and head to the room. Do your thing. Now, comes the hardest part -- relax and recharge. You can try to find a quiet corner, but invariably you will be assaulted by various girls wanting you to go. Hold out. Go to the buffet, sauna, get a massage. Recharge. Go again. Rinse and repeat until you can go no more! It is also possible to leave the club and come back the same day -- just make sure to tell them you are returning.

Now bear in mind that FKK can be widely varying in the awesomeness of the facility and / or girls. So what I describe primarily relates to the biggest and best in and around Frankfurt. Everywhere else may be a shade (or more!) less awesome in the food or the facilities or the girls; but the idea is generally the same.

Every man needs to experience FKK.

DramaFree11
09-16-20, 17:34
Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.

So what is this crazy FKK I speak of?

Imagine if you will a very large building -- perhaps a warehouse -- that has been lavishly outfitted inside with a men's paradise. Buffet, sauna, jacuzzi, massage, pool, bar, relaxation areas and attractive ladies galore. And oh, yeah, the ladies are naked. Did I mention they all want to fuck you? Use the onsite rooms for your carnal pleasures; then rinse and repeat -- as many times as you have stamina and money for!

The drill is pretty much the same at each FKK and as you will see it is designed as the perfect place to start your journey to a better life. You know on TV where the guy gets caught with perfume or a hair or lipstick on his collar? That is never going to happen here because the Germans have engineered the perfect experience -- with virtually guaranteed no trace evidence left behind. Here's how it goes (I'll use Sharks, my favorite, to describe it):

When you enter the FKK, you pay your entry fee ($90-100 USD at nice ones) which entitles you to the full use of the facility and its amenities (sauna, buffet, lounges, non-alcohoic drinks) -- alcoholic drinks, massages, and girls' services are extra. You are issued a towel, robe, flip flops, and a wristband with key and they point you to the locker room. Here you get out of your street clothes, take a shower and suit up in a towel or robe and head into the club. Bring your wallet and condoms with you, as you will put these in a separate small locker when you enter. Prepare to be amazed!.I could not agree more. So much fun, it can kind of be a little overwhelming.

BrizLad
09-16-20, 22:11
It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.Do yourself a favour and forget planning those trips. Even if you can go it simply won't be the fun that we have all had in the past. Realistically for the next 2 years we need to find a way to enjoy the delights in our home countries. That's why sugarbabes are looking like such a good option.

I know here in my country the significant job losses have occurred and government benefits start getting reduced at the end of this month.

It won't be cheap in our home countries but it will be the best we can get for now.

My first international trip when I can will be pussy paradise. Philippines.

LshRoomer
09-17-20, 00:00
I could not agree more. So much fun, it can kind of be a little overwhelming.Dammit Steve9696 and DramaFree11, What you guys describe makes me want to get on a plane ASAP for FKK, schnitzel, and beer!!

I've tasted the german scene but only really dipped my toe in (escorts / SA). I haven't really tried the other stuff, as I'm usually outcall focused. You are recommending the same that I have heard from others, that an FKK should be experienced at least once. I'm never been to Frankfurt, but I'm comfortable in Germany and I think that may be on my short next trip list, especially because it's closer and more familiar than Asia.

I've been to showpark in Prague a number to times, but it doesn't sound like to compares to an FKK experience. The description is definitely welcome during these days of limited or no travel.

Last non SA / GFE related question I promise. Now that you have FKK experience, what would do differently if you could relive your first FKK experience?

Midwestern
09-17-20, 01:58
Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.

Steve, thanks so much for doing this. Every time I come to ISG, I notice that the FKK threads and the India threads are at the top of the list. I checked out the India threads, and it's mostly just posters begging for contacts. I checked out the FKK threads, and I kept thinking to myself that this scene looked amazing, but I could really use a beginner's guide. And, lo and behold, you just provided one. Because of you, I have now started a monger bucket list for myself, and there is currently only one thing on it, which is to partake in the FKK experience.

Hope you won't mind a few questions:

(1) Can I assume that everyone can speak English, including the management, staff, and the girls?

(2) Are there girls from all nationalities, including Americans, Asians, and Africans, or are there only Germans and other Europeans? What's the general breakdown?

(3) I've read in the FKK forums about some guys having the no-pop many-girls strategy. That is, they don't ejaculate so they can sex as many girls as possible. Some guys talk about sexing a dozen girls per visit. This sounds like something that I'd like to do. I don't care about the pop. I just like fucking. Is this a good strategy, or is there a downside to this approach that I am not seeing, besides the money of course?

(4) What are their hours? Is there a best time of day to go? I don't like staying out late anymore, especially when I'm in a new environment.

(5) Is it like a crazy bar scene, with loud live music, dancing, and tons of people, where it's almost impossible to have a convo with someone because it's so loud, and where it's almost impossible to get a drink because it's so crowded and the bartenders and waitresses are so busy, and where it's so dark that you cannot get a good accurate look at the girls? I am not into that scene anymore, which is why I no longer do takeout from monger bars.

(6) Would it be weird if I go there alone, or is that what most guys do?

(7) You mentioned bringing condoms. Man, I always forget to carry condoms, because I am so used to girls having them. Can I buy condoms at the club?

Thanks in advance, man.

Steve 9696
09-17-20, 02:33
Steve, thanks so much for doing this. Every time I come to ISG, I notice that the FKK threads and the India threads are at the top of the list. I checked out the India threads, and it's mostly just posters begging for contacts. I checked out the FKK threads, and I kept thinking to myself that this scene looked amazing, but I could really use a beginner's guide. And, lo and behold, you just provided one. Because of you, I have now started a monger bucket list for myself, and there is currently only one thing on it, which is to partake in the FKK experience.

Hope you won't mind a few questions:

Thanks in advance, man.Your most willing tour guide at your service!

(1) Can I assume that everyone can speak English, including the management, staff, and the girls?

Yes very good English. Everyone.

(2) Are there girls from all nationalities, including Americans, Asians, and Africans, or are there only Germans and other Europeans? What's the general breakdown?

The FKKs are 90% staffed with Romanian girls. Don't be put off by this. Romania has all types. Blonde brunette tiny thick. It's all there. Occasional African or Brazilian or German but nothing to write home about. The Romanian girls are fine. They may tell you they are Italian or Spanish. But they are not. Many girls speak Spanish because they broadcast South American Telenovas in Romania.

(3) I've read in the FKK forums about some guys having the no-pop many-girls strategy. That is, they don't ejaculate so they can sex as many girls as possible. Some guys talk about sexing a dozen girls per visit. This sounds like something that I'd like to do. I don't care about the pop. I just like fucking. Is this a good strategy, or is there a downside to this approach that I am not seeing, besides the money of course?

Guess it depends on the guy. I personally never want to session without cumming. But if that's your thing so be it. All girls of course prefer a guy to cum quickly so they can go to the next guest. You might develop a bad rap as a guy that maxes his time with fucking nonstop. But probably not if you visit just a few times.

(4) What are their hours? Is there a best time of day to go? I don't like staying out late anymore, especially when I'm in a new environment.

Evening is better imo. From 8 on is fine. Don't have to be a night owl. Be forewarned that food is not 24/7. I skipped lunch one time and went at 3:30 and they had closed the buffet till six.

(5) Is it like a crazy bar scene, with loud live music, dancing, and tons of people, where it's almost impossible to have a convo with someone because it's so loud, and where it's almost impossible to get a drink because it's so crowded and the bartenders and waitresses are so busy, and where it's so dark that you cannot get a good accurate look at the girls? I am not into that scene anymore, which is why I no longer do takeout from monger bars.

Definitely not like that. Much more relaxed and laid back than a night club. Lighting at Sharks is good. I remember Oase and World being darker. And Sharks is huge. You will never feel crowded.

(6) Would it be weird if I go there alone, or is that what most guys do?

Most guys go alone.

(7) You mentioned bringing condoms. Man, I always forget to carry condoms, because I am so used to girls having them. Can I buy condoms at the club?

Girls provide condoms so no problem. I just hate regular condoms. Hey maybe that is why you fuck for forever. Once I tried the super thins like Trojan BareSkin no way I am using a regular condom. It's night and day.

Lucky Nuts
09-17-20, 03:45
What makes Thailand the Wild West in your opinion? Granted the scene is a neon sexual Disneyland. There are ways to put yourself out there and meet willing Thai female partners away from the bright lights and meat market atmospheres. I do find Thai women do be some of the most sexual women in Asia. I'll have number 33 please. ;)

As far as COVID, the Thai people did a diligent job of controlling it. They have had only 58 deaths. I have not kept up on whether they were currently shutting down the go-go bars and massage parlors in Bangkok and Pattaya. One thing is for sure some of these countries have taken advantage of the rapid development in testing. You might be able to play in Thailand if you take a test on arrival.Thailand extinguished the virus with the draconian measures of nightly curfews and no alcohol sales for a couple months. But it worked! And now to enter their country you would need to do a 14 day quarantine upon arrival at a designated hotel at your own expense. I had a one month January reservation which the airbnb host agreed to cancel with 100% refund due to the difficult entry requirement.

Regarding the OP's question yeah Singapore sucks for our hobby. I went for a week and stayed for two nights. Beautiful airport though!

If the OP really wants Asia Cambodia is open. Phnom Penh is cheap enough but one of the hardest places to find a diamond in the rough. I'd advise to wait for Asia until Thailand is open again post covid.

Brazil is open I believe and Colombia is opening by the end of September probably the best choices available right now imo except for the more costly Austria & Switzerland already mentioned - if you are allowed to enter which us Amercans are not.

Blue Swede
09-17-20, 05:43
Isn't this thread WAY OT?

Midwestern
09-17-20, 08:11
Your most willing tour guide at your service!.Thanks so much for the awesome insights!

BrizLad
09-17-20, 11:45
Isn't this thread WAY OT?I have found that girls from Asian countries that we associate with lower priced pussy tend to ramp up their prices when they on seeking.com. Trying to get back on topic, has anyone had success with Asian SB pussy when travelling in Asia?

Steve 9696
09-17-20, 14:55
Isn't this thread WAY OT?Yes technically this thread is about SA. But like all threads ISG is really about sharing information and learning. So I see no harm in digressing from time to time with information the thread readers as a whole find useful. Since this thread has been quiet recently on SA topics no harm in the diversion.

Elvis 2008
09-17-20, 19:04
So I see no harm in digressing from time to time with information the thread readers as a whole find useful. Since this thread has been quiet recently on SA topics no harm in the diversion.Let me just start something else up seeing as how we have diverged into mongers versus sugar daddies. Steve, you said that you did not want to do SA in Brazil because the club scene was so awesome.

You reminded me of the two reasons I wanted to be a SB. First off, the sex internationally was so much better than with escorts in the sex prison and cheaper abroad to boot. I thought it was because of cultural attitudes, but I was surprised that even in South America, where I thought being a ho was not frowned on as much, was not something women were okay with. It was just more tolerated because women needed the money.

What bugged me so much in the sex prison was the $1200 dinner date. I have no shortage of hot female sales people who were willing to hang out with me and pick up the tab so female company was not a thing of value with me. I would just be having a good time with a working girl. We would be done having sex, she was hungry and so was I, and yet there was this stupid four figure fee for eating dinner. I was like, "What idiots are paying for this?" With the SB SD relationship, we could just enjoy the meal without the woman feeling ripped off.

For the sex prison, the SA SB-SD relationship just made more sense to me. I started about ten years ago when the USA economy was way down, met some smoking hot women, and the sex with said women was as hot as I got abroad though I paid more. Sadly, SA in the sex prison now seems to be filled to the gills with scammers and the quality response rate is quite low. I did have a promising nibble here the other day though.

I talked to a lawyer about the SB-SD relationship, and he said that given how out in the open it was that he doubted there would be any prosecution of SDs. Even with the FOSTA and SESTA bullshit to fight "human trafficking", which really just resulted in a bunch of johns being jailed and financially shook down to line LE pockets, the SB-SD relationship and SA have been largely left alone by LE.

As great as the working girl sexual relationships were in the Latin countries I visited, the quality of women I have met through SA abroad has been amazing. They are truly women in the top 1%. I had a Latin beauty kind of convince me that getting engaged was a good thing. At the time, I thought I had scored. She was stunning, in great shape, and super smart. Thing is she was very selfish, and when she was caught lying, she broke up with me before I broke up with her. It took my ego down a notch. Still, I was able to follow her on social media and I saw the clusterfuck her life was with me not in it.

It was tough finding similar quality at first but since Covid hit, it has been raining 10's. The commonly held belief is that women want men their own age, want men who are attractive physically, and they only like us older men only for our money. However, the young women with me had orgasms that I could smell and see the white cum. They called and texted me without asking for money and got mad at me when I didn't text or call often enough. The engagement has given me an excuse to not commit to any of the women I have met. If they ask if I am seeing other people, I tell them I will not answer because I do not know what they are doing. I do not give away my monogamy. The only time I tell the women I am willing to pledge it is when I can watch a girl every day.

My ex swore she did not see anyone else, and I do not think she did, but wanted to show the world she was with a handsome model versus me on her social media page. She thought putting up my picture would incite negative comments and she said that she was upset enough people were calling her a gold digger.

Thing is people were calling her that because she had soured on me. I remember a cab driver saying to me after she kissed me goodbye, "You have a very pretty girlfriend. " I was like why would the guy think that versus her being a working girl, and I realized it was how she looked at me. This revelation was greatly empowering to me because I realized that my giving her money was not what caused people to think she was a gold digger. It was her shitty attitude towards me at the end of our relationship.

The working girl or gold digger shaming is huge for women, and I turned the lemons into lemonades and have used it to my advantage. After my breakup, I was seeing a Vennie 10 super model in Mexico and was getting fed up with her lack of response to my texts. I asked her if she just wanted to be pay for play or my GF / SB / Novia, and she recoiled at the thought of being a P4P hooker. I told her she was shitty with responding to my texts and calls, and she apologized and has done way better since then.

I lectured the Mexican lawyer who is a 10 about showing up on time. I told her, "You keep making plans and breaking them. I need a woman I can trust. Is that you? And she showed up on time from then on. The last time I asked her if she needed money, she refused taking it and asked, "Need money for what?

I now have two women in Mexico, six women in Colombia, and one in Brazil that are SBs or SB prospects. They send me texts all the time. My understanding in Spanish is that Te quiero which technically means I want you. It is the English equivalent of I really like you. Te amo is I love you. Of these nine, five have texted me te quiero and four have texted me Te amo. I have responded likewise if I felt that there were sincere, and I have not if I thought the proclamations were financial manipulation.

I have met six of the nine women in person. I have had sex with three without payment after the deed. For the guys saying they are just with me for money, I would ask what money?

But more importantly, if these women give off the impression that they are gold diggers to the world, I am calling them out on it. GFs pack my suitcase, give me massages, make things like clothing for me, buy me gifts, and show the world how much they care about me, and I now expect these things from these women.

The easiest thing in the world to spot is a woman in love with a man versus with him for his money. If anyone told me that these women were just after my money, I would ask them to tell that to the woman's face and see how she reacts. She better respond about how I walk on water, and that is as much if not more to protect her image as mine.

So now if any guy says to me that a woman is just after me for money, I will tell them: prove to me she is and she is gone. I have no need for working girls. I think American men have been wussified. Shit, women in the People's Republic of California can say regretting sex the next day is now rape.

But most importantly, I am now honest with myself. My ex wife shamed me so much that I was paying women just to get my ego up. I will never forget my ex getting offended at what I laughed at in a comedy. She even shamed me for how I breathed. When I told her to get a job so she had something to do besides bugging me, she threatened to kill herself. Trump gave great advice after his first wife shamed him. When asked what to do with a wife shaming her husband, he said "Dump them."

I see women even ugly women in America on SA wanting platonic relationships. Men are supposed to work for their money. Women are supposed to be given it as victims. That is the great female game. Shame us and make us feel badly and then we pay to have said women to have the shame removed. Fuck that!!

I never thought I could demand as much from SB / GF types as I have. Ironically, it was seeing my ex-wife and fiance's lives going down the tubes without me and that great female weapon of shame turned against women that has allowed me to do so.

Nothing is a bigger turn off for me then having great sex with a woman and her running for the door when we are done. Thankfully for me, those days are in the past.

Mongerer88
09-17-20, 21:11
Elvis 2008,

I don't know where you get this:

"Even with the FOSTA and SESTA bullshit to fight "human trafficking", which really just resulted in a bunch of johns being jailed and financially shook down to line LE pockets. ".

There have been few, if any, "jailings" of Johns in the USA, and none at all under Fosta / Sesta.

The standard state / local law enforcement technique in the USA Was to do fake ads on Backpage and arrest guys for solicitation based on explicit texts. Certainly there are arrests for picking up street decoys and a few citations for going to massage parlors that are unlicensed and where sex is found to occur during sting operations, but that is rare.

Law enforcement has never had success in attacking escorts who screen, or their customers. It is a purchase of time and companionship, which is legal. Sugar arrangements are even safer legally than that.

Fosta / Sesta is a federal law. The federal government has a very specific policy that it does not charge Johns or sex workers criminally if all parties are 18 or over. The federal government criminally pursues owners / operators when it comes to sex work. And the federal government does huge asset seizures of any entity involved in interstate sex work. But thst is far different than jailing Johns.

Many of your criticisms of the USA Are accurate, and there are plenty of reasons for a USA Guy to go overseas for sex, but your parts about law enforcement are misleading. The issues relate more to pricing than law enforcement concerns. Poorer women outside the USA Are simply more likely to exchange quality sex for a lower price, and they have more incentive to be attractive and sexual.

Pessimist
09-17-20, 22:17
Elvis 2008,

I don't know where you get this:

"Even with the FOSTA and SESTA bullshit to fight "human trafficking", which really just resulted in a bunch of johns being jailed and financially shook down to line LE pockets. ".

There have been few, if any, "jailings" of Johns in the USA, and none at all under Fosta / Sesta.

The standard state / local law enforcement technique in the USA Was to do fake ads on Backpage and arrest guys for solicitation based on explicit texts. Certainly there are arrests for picking up street decoys and a few citations for going to massage parlors that are unlicensed and where sex is found to occur during sting operations, but that is rare.l.Personally speaking, I see a lot of exaggerations in this thread on occasion. First of all, any type of generalizations scare me and doubt the authenticity or the objectivity of the writer. "SBs are scammers", "SBs are wonderful", "Place X is super awesome, location why is horrible" and other such sentences are quite a bit off putting. The nature of seeking.com is pretty clear. Any man and woman can register. The site checks nor verifies no info, unless one does it voluntarily. A person claiming to be a girl on that site may not be even a girl, because the site does not verify your gender. Guys have to pay $80 to $90 a month to message a girl, and it verifies your credit card is accurate but that's about it. When such a site has millions of members, what else can we expect? All it does is provide a meeting place. Anyone with some sense can figure out quickly that one has to do a lot of due diligence, that there would be scammers but also some genuine articles and with hard work comes a few good rewards. I do not see a need for any exaggerated claims, such as US is bad, country X is good, etc. Obviously, being an American and a US resident, I have done most of my sugardaddying in my city and in this country but I do travel abroad and I hit up girls abroad before I head over (because I can, the site provides contacts, why not use them?) and sometimes I get lucky abroad even in the few days I am visiting a foreign city for business. But I would not say foreign cities are easy gold mines. Even over there, if I hit up dozens of girls I get lucky with a few. One thing - seeking.com has far more popular in the US than in European cities. I can search within 50 miles of my home and SA pulls up hundreds of white girls in the <25 age group, even in the slender body category. In foreign cities, that list is a few dozen at best. I have verified this by doing such search in dozens of foreign cities (if for no reason than just to ogle girls' photos).

BrizLad
09-17-20, 22:57
I now have two women in Mexico, six women in Colombia, and one in Brazil that are SBs or SB prospects. They send me texts all the time. My understanding in Spanish is that Te quiero which technically means I want you. It is the English equivalent of I really like you. Te amo is I love you. Of these nine, five have texted me te quiero and four have texted me Te amo. I have responded likewise if I felt that there were sincere, and I have not if I thought the proclamations were financial manipulation..Thanks for the detailed post Elvis. In the past I have operated multiple media accounts while I have been testing some of my supposed committed SBs.

I would meet them through a traditional method on a dating site then as things got interesting and I was thinking of committing more $$ to them one of my alternate profiles would also make contact with them. It was always interesting in the mornings when they came online and each profile would in turn get from her a "Good morning" then an "I miss you".

I've been in bed as "Me1" waiting for a girl while she is in MY lounge room chatting to "Me2" lining up her date for the following day. Geez I had fun the following day knowing that she needed to be at the mall at 11 am. I had a lazy breakfast, delayed leaving for work then about 10:45 decided I would stay home and take her out for lunch. What did I learn? I learned the language that she uses when she had alternate plans.

I kept with her but at least I knew she was playing around and I did not fool myself. Two years later when it came time to end the SB relationship with her I wasn't too worried as I knew she could quickly replace me I she hadn't already.

I love your method of exposing the SB to the situation where she has to defend her relationship with you. I will have to bring that about with my next SB.

Steve 9696
09-17-20, 23:17
Thanks Elvis for the mega write up. Lots of truth in there. And there is more to it than the money with the girls I know. As I said before, an affectionate relationship first and the gifts fall naturally and without effort from that.

Slightly OT again but it's such fun if you need a diversion go to the Diva Escorts website and browse girls. Prostitution is legal in the UK and Diva has one of the best sites for window shopping. It even lists each girls services. Does she CIM? COF? It's all there. The photos are photoshopped but honestly the Good girls are the same or better in person. Been with ten (ish) of these girls and can tell you they are 100% real and you fuck in their bed. It's great fun just to shop and fantasize about a future trip.

PS we need a Midwestern update on his girl! Dude! ??

Sky Ryder
09-17-20, 23:41
I have found that girls from Asian countries that we associate with lower priced pussy tend to ramp up their prices when they on seeking.com. Trying to get back on topic, has anyone had success with Asian SB pussy when travelling in Asia?Singapore has always been high dollar but the SA gals there have a severe case of GPS for sure. Hong Kong is the same way with many of the gals, although I have had some 3-6 month SB's that were fun and reasonable. Only had one SA date in Thailand, but at it seems they really want to make sure you are in it for the long term before sex. It is still better than USA, which is the worst of all. I have a few more Asia countries to try. Looking forward to the journey.

Midwestern
09-18-20, 10:44
Elvis, thanks for the mega post. A lot of what you say makes sense. In fact, the current gal that I am seeking an arrangement with said to me, "There's more to my life than men and money. In fact, men and money are a small part of my life. " To be honest, it was a bit of a revelation to me.

Someone asked about SAs in Asia. I'm in Shanghai, and I looked at the SA site several times, and each time, after spending about 30 minutes looking at the profiles, I felt exhausted. But in Shanghai, there are millions of migrant workers (people that come here from second tier Chinese cities to work). Many are single women or married women who are trying to support their kid back home. About 10 years ago, there was a senior poster in the Beijing forum who kept saying that these migrant workers were ideal targets for arrangements, PPMs, freebies, etc. I usually ignored his posts. One time, I even told him to stop posting useless info. But I now realize that he was TOTALLY right. So, since last year, I've been "seeking arrangements" with migrant workers. My friend in Singapore did the same for many years, with the Filipino maids that work in Singapore. You might ask how it's been going for me so far. And my reply is that it's been an adventure, I'm enjoying it, I'm getting laid this way, and so I'm still doing it.

Steve. A small update. There isn't much to report. I've been busy with work, and her Aunt Flo visited on Monday. We met for lunch once, which was a fucking drag, but I'm trying to boyfriend her, as you know. We also met up at the movie room again. You might recall that a movie room is like a KTV room, but instead of singing, you just rent the room to watch movies. Inside the room, there is a huge bed, and a huge screen TV. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of movies are available. The room rent is $8 per hour. We just put on a movie, and then we fool around. But we've never fucked in those rooms. It's probably not a good idea to do so. We're planning to spend the day together on Monday. Last night, she told me she shaved her pussy, for our date on Monday. She even sent me pictures and also a video of herself playing with her pussy. So, Monday looks promising. I haven't fucked her since almost 3 weeks ago. As far as "our arrangement," neither one of us has brought it up again, after we had that huge fight when I told her that I was married. My plan is to go ahead with the arrangement, but IF and ONLY IF we fuck a few times during the next few weeks. If we do, then one day I will suddenly surprise her with some money, and say it's my way of helping her out. Otherwise, I'm cutting bait. BTW, the receptionist is ignoring my texts. Oh well. I fucked her 4 times, which is not bad, but I wish she was still in the picture.

Steve 9696
09-18-20, 17:52
So since more folks are joining this thread and much of the good primer information is way back in Jan / Feb I thought I'the write a little intro to Seeking. Hope you enjoy and it helps others on their journey. Please note that this is for guys that enjoy the whole romance and simulated girlfriend thing. If you just want to find a girl to fuck there are plenty of those also.

Seeking Arrangement opened a whole new world for me -- Sugar Baby. Sugar Daddy dating. I had gotten a taste of this with Thifany (the girl from the São Paulo Boate that I flew to London for a week). I mean SBSD is really what we were doing when I flew her to London. I paid her a very reasonable allowance for the week and we just played boyfriend and girlfriend. What fun.

I came to realize through the Thifany experience that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.

So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably enough and one or the other will suggest to take the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she goes there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text.

Once over to text, you can discuss allowance / gifts (never "her price" or "how much you charge") though some guys leave that for in person dates. Because I am a fly-in guy and want to close the deal -- I. E. Go to the room and have sex -- the very first night, I prefer to get this elephant out of the room before the date if possible. But again, you can't go straight here. Start first with how you see the date going.

I usually say something about going out and having an epic time and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX! And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often they will be down with this description -- I mean we are all on SA for a reason. This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway. As of this writing, with A LOT of searching and false starts I'the say most big cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more) with SF and NYC more like $500. $300 is more like it for second tier cities, and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category).

Once you have the "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.

Elvis 2008
09-18-20, 18:06
Certainly there are arrests for picking up street decoys and a few citations for going to massage parlors that are unlicensed and where sex is found to occur during sting operations, but that is rare.

Law enforcement has never had success in attacking escorts who screen, or their customers. It is a purchase of time and companionship, which is legal. Sugar arrangements are even safer legally than that.
Mongerer,

Whenever I talk about this subject, I run into denial on the part of men. For some reason, men who engage in prostitution think of themselves as law abiding citizens instead of the criminals they really are. In fact, you probably wince at me just using that word.

For law enforcement (LE), there was not a lot of success prosecuting people for a victimless crime. Until there was active promotion of a campaign against human trafficking. Now all of sudden there were victims, and men were the perpetrators.

Most white people, and I am white, are happy thinking the police / law enforcement are there to protect them, when they arrest someone there is good cause, when the police do use violence, they are justified. Again, there is the thinking the police like me and would never shoot me because I am a law abiding citizen, and I get it. People are happy believing that, and they attack anyone who bursts their bubble. If that is the case, quit reading right here.

So when I show you this story about how a DEA agent just took someone's life savings, $16,000, do you defend LE and the government? And think this agent probably had a good reason? Maybe you think there was something more to this story. https://www.abqjournal.com/580107/dea-agents-seize-16000-from-aspiring-music-video-producer.html.

What was more to the story was that it was just the tip of the iceberg. "A Washington Post investigation last year found that local, state and federal agents nationwide have seized $2. 5 billion in cash from almost 62,000 people since 2001 – without warrants or indictments. It's unknown how many got their money back. ".

The typical monger cheers on the crackdown on human trafficking. I don't. I see LE looking at all the cash in prostitution like a kid looking at candy through a glass window trying to figure out how they can get that cash, and human trafficking was the rock used to break the window.

I saw how the government operated. First, there are the brochures about human trafficking, then more brochures, then the tragic media reports of those trafficked, then the elevation of more and more media stories about trafficking, and finally we are at crisis level where "something has to be done".

Guys who had sugar babies were like we are helping women out, we would never be busted for trafficking. I tried to tell them trafficking was just the excuse. LE wanted your money and was going to shake you down using it as an excuse.

I ran into a lot of resistance. Then Robert Kraft got arrested: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-robert-kraft-prostitution-case-appeal-fight-20191227-h7aepphb2jfzvl52qpmn5a2ibu-story.html.

"But now lawyers for the state are arguing for the first time that Kraft — charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution — actually committed a felony.

The latest court filing from the Attorney General's Office suggests Kraft could face a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison, if the state wins its appeal of a lower court order favoring the billionaire."

LE arrested Kraft for getting a hand job and wanted to put him in jail for 5 years.

And what do you think the DAs droned about as a reason to put Kraft in jail? Supporting trafficking. Kraft was not the only one arrested, and no one was charged with trafficking, but LE wanted to stop trafficking even when in cases like this there was none.

When you are paying women cash for sex, do you think of yourself as a criminal? Do you automatically go in thinking what happened to Kraft could not happen to you?

You see with me I know when I pay for sex I am a criminal, but I do all I can to blur the lines. I know what happened to Kraft could happen to me, and I do all that I can and learn all I can so I am not a charged criminal. I get the denial but I think that is a question of putting happiness over safety. Still, people attack those who threaten their happiness, and I do not want to be attacked any more. Been there, done that.

Mongerer88
09-18-20, 23:03
No, you make unwarranted jumps in your logic and conclusions.

And you don't study actual arrests.

I think asset forfeiture and seizure is terrible. I mentioned it in my post. It is applied against those with cash earned from a supposedly illegal activity. It affects sex workers and what few remaining agencies exist. It doesn't effect Johns unless that John picks up a streetwalker in his car in certain jurisdictions. So don't pick up streetwalkers. Asset forfeiture doesn't effect the bank accounts of Johns. There isn't illegal cash there.

Kraft went to a massage parlor with several ladies working there at once. The massage parlor was under internal surveillance. Granted that was a relatively new and abusive law enforcement technique and I hope like hell that the courts continue to kick law enforcement's ass over it. But it was a commercial facility operating under a business license and the warrant was granted for surveillance as a result of supposed illegal activity occurring there that involved multiple women. Different activity than what its business license allowed That is tremendously different from the granting of a surveillance warrant for a residential location where only one lady is present at a time. Tremendously different. A commercial license in a business district is simply treated differently.

The gold standard for John safety from a law enforcement perspective is outcall to a hotel room or his residence with an escort who has her own website and who has reviews. The gold standard for escort safety from law enforcement is incall to an apartment zoned for residential purposes after the customer has been screened. They are both safe from law enforcement activities.

Sugar arrangements are even safer, but what I described above is already safe. Damn expensive and a hassle, but safe.

No-screening Backpage type encounters, massage parlors, strip joints (including the parking lot of strip joints) and certainly the streets are not safe in the USA.

But you can't take citations and arrests from one activity and extrapolate it to other activities.

And for what it is worth, I think the police go overboard on a regular basis in many areas. But that doesn't keep me from studying and thinking, and I don't take nonsense from bad 8 pm TV crime dramas and assume the police techniques shown there actually happen.


Mongerer,

Whenever I talk about this subject, I run into denial on the part of men. For some reason, men who engage in prostitution think of themselves as law abiding citizens instead of the criminals they really are. In fact, you probably wince at me just using that word.

For law enforcement (LE), there was not a lot of success prosecuting people for a victimless crime. Until there was active promotion of a campaign against human trafficking. Now all of sudden there were victims, and men were the perpetrators.

Most white people, and I am white, are happy thinking the police / law enforcement are there to protect them, when they arrest someone there is good cause, when the police do use violence, they are justified. Again, there is the thinking the police like me and would never shoot me because I am a law abiding citizen, and I get it. People are happy believing that, and they attack anyone who bursts their bubble. If that is the case, quit reading right here.

So when I show you this story about how a DEA agent just took someone's life savings, $16,000, do you defend LE and the government? And think this agent probably had a good reason? Maybe you think there was something more to this story. https://www.abqjournal.com/580107/dea-agents-seize-16000-from-aspiring-music-video-producer.html.

Midwestern
09-18-20, 23:47
Steve, all of your advice and suggestions are SPOT on!

Elvis, I agree with a lot of what you said. I know many MP gals in the states, and none of them were trafficked. When they get arrested, they say they're were forced into the business because they don't want to admit they voluntarily entered this line of work. But I'm not saying that trafficking doesn't happen, of course. But I have a question for you. What's the main takeaway that we should take from your recent posts? Are you suggesting that we can get arrested for SB / SD relationships? Sorry that I'm dense.

Nounce
09-19-20, 00:49
Steve, all of your advice and suggestions are SPOT on!

Elvis, I agree with a lot of what you said. I know many MP gals in the states, and none of them were trafficked. When they get arrested, they say they're were forced into the business because they don't want to admit they voluntarily entered this line of work. But I'm not saying that trafficking doesn't happen, of course. But I have a question for you. What's the main takeaway that we should take from your recent posts? Are you suggesting that we can get arrested for SB / SD relationships? Sorry that I'm dense.The women work in MPs with tourist visas usually are rotated from city to city arranged by an organization. Although they are not forced. The law enforcement is going to find a way to apply or interpret the law in a way that considers the arrangement as sex trafficking.

If a group is determined to stop something but can't change the existing law, they are going to do it by creating another law to achieve it indirectly. The example being selling sex is legal, but buying is illegal, and the case of backpage. You can also bet there is a group plotting to create another law to get the user private data collected by the big high tech companies because they can't do it like the way China does it.

The country is great that is as long as you don't get involved with the law in some way and not on the receiving end of it. Because often one will find out the law does not work the way it is intended and it is not the same as what we see on TV shows. The nicest thing when someone is poor is that no one will sue you but also no one will seek justice for you. The opposite is also true like in the case of Kraft that Elvis mentioned

And that is how our government are in deadlock all the time.

My 2 cents

Pessimist
09-19-20, 02:42
Mongerer,

Whenever I talk about this subject, I run into denial on the part of men. For some reason, men who engage in prostitution think of themselves as law abiding citizens instead of the criminals they really are. In fact, you probably wince at me just using that word.

For law enforcement (LE), there was not a lot of success prosecuting people for a victimless crime. Until there was active promotion of a campaign against human trafficking. Now all of sudden there were victims, and men were the perpetrators.

Most white people, and I am white, are happy thinking the police / law enforcement are there to protect them, when they arrest someone there is good cause, when the police do use violence, they are justified. Again, there is the thinking the police like me and would never shoot me because I am a law abiding citizen, and I get it. People are happy believing that, and they attack anyone who bursts their bubble. If that is the case, quit reading right here..Too many generalizations. Also, you continually assume there is something or someone called typical monger, and that you know what that typical monger thinks. It is almost as if you think you are some objective, wise observer standing apart from the rest of the crowd passing judgement on them. Sorry to burst your bubble, you are also part of the typical monger crowd, whatever that means.

Most of us, or many of us anyway, know SB / SD is borderline gray area. Some of us also use escort services in US, some use street walkers, some used Craig's list, backpage, paid strippers for sex, what not. People do risky things. Some times they are aware of the risk, compute the risk and are accepting of the risk reward trade off. Sometimes, they underestimate the risk. Sometimes, their brain stops working and they do dumb stuff. When we are away from the scene, sitting alone in front of the computer and typing, many of us are able to analyze this in more cold calculated fashion and evaluate the risk.

It is up to each person to manage his own risk when it comes to SB / SD stuff or other forms of escorting. If you are not comfortable with that risk, go to Germany and fuck girls in FKKs which is quite legal. Or any other place that floats your boat.

But there is no need for lectures. The reality is that mongers are well traveled, hardcore bunch and know the realities of the world. You can even say jaded.

Elvis 2008
09-19-20, 04:20
What's the main takeaway that we should take from your recent posts? Are you suggesting that we can get arrested for SB / SD relationships? Sorry that I'm dense.Honestly, MW, I was just going through why I went from escorts to sugar daddy to international sugar daddy, and I was hoping others would tell their story.

As for LE, LE came right out and said if you are paying for sex, you are supporting human trafficking. That was why DAs said Kraft should be jailed for 5 years.

It would be hard to sell a college coed as being trafficked and I have not heard too much about LE going after the SD SB thing, but it is crazy right now. It is sad because for decades LE left us alone if no one got hurt. Even the sex workers are griping this is not helping them.

But I am not interested in this topic. I just saw things had come to a stand still and I am interested in why other guys became sugar daddies.

Nounce
09-19-20, 09:57
I have found that girls from Asian countries that we associate with lower priced pussy tend to ramp up their prices when they on seeking.com. Trying to get back on topic, has anyone had success with Asian SB pussy when travelling in Asia?SA price is higher is a phenomenon across almost all countries I have experience with.

I think the only Asian country for mongering that is worthwhile on SA is Indonesia because I find it easier to find SB and less scams. Other countries like Thailand have their own dating sites so very few girls use SA even though they have a large population of prostitutes. There are many scams that are based in HK so skip all girls that use HK numbers. This includes the west coast in US. The Asian locals that use SA are seeking foreigners mostly or are expats living there. If I describe someone I met from SA in a specific city now, it is possible that you will able to identify the person if you try hard enough. There are not many choices after the scams are filtered out.

Steve 9696
09-19-20, 13:00
Honestly, MW, I was just going through why I went from escorts to sugar daddy to international sugar daddy, and I was hoping others would tell their story.

As for LE, LE came right out and said if you are paying for sex, you are supporting human trafficking. That was why DAs said Kraft should be jailed for 5 years.

It would be hard to sell a college coed as being trafficked and I have not heard too much about LE going after the SD SB thing, but it is crazy right now. It is sad because for decades LE left us alone if no one got hurt. Even the sex workers are griping this is not helping them.

But I am not interested in this topic. I just saw things had come to a stand still and I am interested in why other guys became sugar daddies.My move to SB had nothing to do with LE. I became a P411 member about 3 years ago. For those who don't know what P411 is it is a verification service run out of Canada that vets both sides to make sure no one is LE and has an "okays" system so girls can avoid weirdos. It really works pretty well and I've had several nice girls thru P411 including one of my ATFs Asian Christine who was my hot Filipina girlfriend for four straight nights but at about $2000 and just 6-8 hours total time. Don't know if they still accept new members — they closed up shop for a while when SESTA / FOSTA came out. If you want a safe hooker they are a good bet.

But then as I said in my primer below it was the real GFE with Thifany in London that got me into SB. And by GFE in this sense I mean beyond the bedroom. Romantic dinners. Dancing till 3 AM. Holding hands and walking in the park. Texting when apart. And of course legendary rather meaningful sex.

So that taste made me want a "girlfriend" instead of an escort. And of course for the same $400 you don't get an hour, you get an evening. And sometimes a full overnight. So it's truly awesome. Plus it does seem safe.

Of course I like my girls in all forms and venues. So the Boates of Brazil, the FKK of Germany, the Strip Clubs in Russia, the Love Hotels in Tokyo, the Ro-girls incall in London, the bar pickup in Shanghai (now mostly defunct). It's all too awesome to pass up when traveling abroad. But in the US? Seeking is the only game in town for me.

Midwestern
09-19-20, 14:33
Honestly, MW, I was just going through why I went from escorts to sugar daddy to international sugar daddy, and I was hoping others would tell their story.

But I am not interested in this topic. I just saw things had come to a stand still and I am interested in why other guys became sugar daddies.My reasons for becoming an SD is pretty much identical to Steve's reasons. This doesn't mean that I only seek SB / SD relationships. I still see pros regularly.

WyattEarp
09-19-20, 16:20
Then Robert Kraft got arrested: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-robert-kraft-prostitution-case-appeal-fight-20191227-h7aepphb2jfzvl52qpmn5a2ibu-story.html.

"But now lawyers for the state are arguing for the first time that Kraft charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution actually committed a felony.

The latest court filing from the Attorney General's Office suggests Kraft could face a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison, if the state wins its appeal of a lower court order favoring the billionaire."

LE arrested Kraft for getting a hand job and wanted to put him in jail for 5 years.

And what do you think the DAs droned about as a reason to put Kraft in jail? Supporting trafficking. Kraft was not the only one arrested, and no one was charged with trafficking, but LE wanted to stop trafficking even when in cases like this there was none.This is all old news that is misleading in its presentation. In January, the Florida prosecutors backed off a claim that Kraft committed a felony. The prosecutor's appeal to a higher court was to instate the video as evidence. A lower court threw out the video. In any event, in August the higher court upheld the lower court's suppression of the video evidence.

Whether this was your intent or not, your post reads in its sequence that the prosecutors were appealing the designation of a misdemeanor and trying to get the crime raised to a felony. Prosecutors typically can't appeal verdicts or charges. They appeal procedural rulings by a court such as the suppression of the video.

WyattEarp
09-19-20, 16:53
So since more folks are joining this thread and much of the good primer information is way back in Jan / Feb I thought I'the write a little intro to Seeking. Hope you enjoy and it helps others on their journey. Please note that this is for guys that enjoy the whole romance and simulated girlfriend thing. If you just want to find a girl to fuck there are plenty of those also.Steve, I have gone back and read your earlier posts and experiences from Jan / Feb. I think what would be helpful is how you screen SBs on the SA website. Now it might be hard to generalize what are the positive profiles. It seems like some attractive girls are super chill and the first impression is they want to hang out and have a good time. Others seem more sexually forward implying they are ready to get down. Perhaps both of these profiles are worth a response.

I would think it would be easier to look for negatives. Over the top requirements for long-term allowances, luxury shopping and international travel seem like a no-go. Phrases like "I know what I am worth" seem like a surefire GPS alert. The word "platonic' seems like a non-starter, but some guys on other boards seem to think that's just for public consumption and privately everyone knows what SA is all about. I'm not sure I would spend time responding to this type of profile. I'm sure there are other red flags.

Do you recommend prioritizing girls who are new to the site? Conversely, do you avoid girls who mention they have had several great SD relationships? Do you prefer a girl who has a bikini photo? Or do you prefer a more modest girl? I would think a girl with just head shots and a description like "curvy" or "a few extra pounds" would be problematic.

I'm not trying to answer my question. I am interested in Steve and other's take on initial screening.

LivingFossil
09-19-20, 17:09
Hi,

I'm new to the SA thread, I've been collecting good intel here. When I am abroad I enjoy paying for sex in various way but here in the USA I have never tried it due to fears of LE. I don't really want to be a SD I just want to one good regular provider that I can call for sex like a pizza. However, my conclusion is that is it too expensive to do this here in the USA as weekly or bi weekly thing.

The reason is with some work I can find decent freebies and that when I have paid for sex abroad the cost was between $20 and $120 for high quality service.

Seems like there is a long process of courtship with SB and that I need to pay hundreds of dollars for anything even okay.

I guess I just to make an extra $1000 a month to get a SB, but if I had that I would spend $500 for a fun weekend in Tijuana and invest the rest.

I swear the only thing I don't like about the good ol USA is that paying for sex here is sooo expensive and illegal compared almost everywhere else.

Can we start our own lobbying group, please!

Steve 9696
09-19-20, 17:36
Steve, I have gone back and read your earlier posts and experiences from Jan / Feb. I think what would be helpful is how you screen SBs on the SA website. Now it might be hard to generalize what are the positive profiles. It seems like some attractive girls are super chill and the first impression is they want to hang out and have a good time. Others seem more sexually forward implying they are ready to get down. Perhaps both of these profiles are worth a response.

I would think it would be easier to look for negatives. Over the top requirements for long-term allowances, luxury shopping and international travel seem like a no-go. Phrases like "I know what I am worth" seem like a surefire GPS alert. The word "platonic' seems like a non-starter, but some guys on other boards seem to think that's just for public consumption and privately everyone knows what SA is all about. I'm not sure I would spend time responding to this type of profile. I'm sure there are other red flags.

Do you recommend prioritizing girls who are new to the site? Conversely, do you avoid girls who mention they have had several great SD relationships? Do you prefer a girl who has a bikini photo? Or do you prefer a more modest girl? I would think a girl with just head shots and a description like "curvy" or "a few extra pounds" would be problematic.

I'm not trying to answer my question. I am interested in Steve and other's take on initial screening.I guess first I sorta read part of what you said like you are responding to girls that reach out to you. Maybe you weren't saying that, but I NEVER do this. (Ok one in fifty). Girls who reach out are usually hookers or desperate or both. You must Seek.

I have a type. 90% of girls are not my type. So that's easy to screen. But once I pick someone based on looks I cast a wide net. I enjoy the cat and mouse so I contact virtually every girl that falls within my taste. It's a numbers game for sure.

You are right to avoid platonic or online only. I've tried dragging a few into the pond and no dice. Friend with Benefits tag is clearly DTF but I went back and looked and Krystal my ATF did not have it. So don't let it screen out some diamonds.

Definitely stay away from the "it's all about me" girls. Who the fuck contacts them?

Prior SDs is OK tho most girls won't mention it. And just know that curvy means different things in different geographies. In the US it means fat. In South America it means slim with big tits. So don't rule out curvy girls outside the US.

Yes I always scan for new girls. I've gone thru the entire roster for my area so new girls get special attention. I use the Hide function to take girls I don't want out of the list so I am always pruned back to reasonable candidates.

Couple other thoughts. Usually when a girl comes on strong with sexy vibe she is a catfish. Case in point just last night this girl was off Tinder but same thing. Had a nice chat for an hour or so. Then Very let's get down. My roommate is gone. And shortly thereafter "oh can you do verification so I know you are safe?" With link to phishing site. Didn't click of course. She was very persistent about how it's safe and she's done it and all. Finally ghosted her.

That said Layla my current SB was super sexual in her profile. I was convinced she was a catfish. Smelled scam even as we were meeting up! And it turned out fine. Point is you need to follow all the leads just be careful to be eyes wide open.

Oh and don’t hesitate to be persistent. I’ve had a couple girls I’ve gone out with where they ignored my opener. But I followed up and we engaged. Even had one girl shoot me down three months back and the we ended up doing a meetup on my second assault. I think they just get inundated and of course circumstances change over a period of months.

Mongerer88
09-19-20, 23:59
I don't know how some of the posters here can be so confident of the greater supposed legal protections in Latin America versus the United States, in light of the Cuba Dave case.

https://www.launchknowledge.com/the-cuba-dave-story-interview-2018/

Of course what Cuba Dave did was different than what a typical sex tourist, including a Sugar Daddy, does. But that is no different than the distinction that many of us make regarding how different aspects of the USA Commercial sex scene works.

Midwestern
09-20-20, 01:14
Besides the usual screens, such as ethnicity, body type, height, age, etc. , here are the additional ways that I screened with a pretty high degree of success:

(1) I looked for stories that seemed genuine. Some examples include the girl that wanted to go to medical school, but discovered the tech field and is now working for a startup and therefore her current salary is not high. Another example is the person that just got divorced and is looking for work, but in the meantime she needs some affection and some financial help. Another example is the gal that just graduated from college and could not find a job and moved back home with her parents and just wanted to go out and have fun. Stuff like this. These stories are rare because gals usually don't post this kind of stuff, so it meant that I had to read about a hundred profiles before I would come across one of these kinds of stories. But when I did find one, I would invest a lot of time into trying to meet them. For example, I would study their profile carefully and then use some of that stuff as topics of convo during our initial exchange. (A derivative of this screen is that I also looked for gals that had unique interests, such as going to art exhibits and movie festivals.).

(2) I sometimes specifically looked for highly educated girls, ones with graduate degrees. I'm sort of smart, so I can chat up educated girls pretty okay. While every girl desires respect, the educated girls in particular especially wanted to be respected, especially for their smarts, and that was something that I was able to pull off. "Dating" these girls was okay fun for me, because I enjoy a good convo sometimes. In fact, I think almost all of these girls wanted to keep in touch with me after our arrangement ended. I'm still friends with one of them.

(3) I always looked for girls that were VERY new to SA. They are not jaded yet. I would try to arrange a meet-and-greet with them ASAP. When a new girl joins the site, they might get about a dozen meeting requests in the first few days, and so my odds are pretty good at this point. After I meet them, many of these girls would tell me something like, "I have met 3 guys on this site so far, and I like you the most. " For the ones that have been on SA for several months or over a year, the odds that I can get a meeting with them are low, and at that point, they are taking a business like approach to finding an SD.

This doesn't mean that I ignored girls outside of the screens above.

BrizLad
09-20-20, 21:38
Besides the usual screens, such as ethnicity, body type, height, age, etc. , here are the additional ways that I screened with a pretty high degree of success:

This doesn't mean that I ignored girls outside of the screens above.For me.

(4) Any girl that specifies "wanting to e spoiled" or "wanting to enjoy the finer things in life" is OFF my list. For me it shows that they have the wrong expectation of the SB-SD agreement. I know that for me as a SD I'm not searching in the oe of finding a girl just so I can have the fun of throwing money at them. That happens for the right girl with a sensible performance based attitude.

Elvis 2008
09-20-20, 23:46
I don't know how some of the posters here can be so confident of the greater supposed legal protections in Latin America versus the United States, in light of the Cuba Dave case.
I actually thought about why this topic pisses so many people off, and I realize that with any stressful situation the first and second reactions like with grief are denial and then anger. When a guy comes in and talks about the risk and breaks through the denial like I did, the anger, which I have told you all has happened before, should be expected.

You have two choices mongering in the USA: you can accept that if you pay for sex that you are supporting human trafficking as law enforcement says or you can think like I do LE is fucking crazy and make adjustments based on that fact.

You are programmed with all you watch to think LE is filled with heroes and good guys instead of just thinking about them as the people they are. What woke me up to this was one police officer who arrested me and was fired the next day because basically he was an idiot and everyone wanted to know what I did wrong. What actually happened is the police officer did not know the law. When I said what I was stopped for, the response was that I probably said something wrong as if that was something that I should be arrested for. Here were people who knew me and had known me for decades throwing the first amendment in the trash can just so they could cling to the notion that what happened to me would not happen to them. This guy was making less than a fucking Uber Eats driver, but I was amazed that person after person thought he could do no wrong.

Even if you get to the fact that maybe this cop was a bad actor, and he had a terrible history of abuses, there is the one bad apple crap which is another assumption. It was not one bad cop. It turned out this whole small town was rotten to the core. They used their part of an Interstate to legally mug drivers.

If you say that you are comfortable with the risk, you are just as crazy as LE is. That denial may make you feel better in the moment, but it is not helpful. Instead of thinking LE would never come after you, what is useful is to learn about how they would and take action to prevent that from happening.

When I hear people say that I didn't understand the Kraft case or I am a typical monger or in your case, "You do not know what you are talking about with Latin America, look at Cuba", that is just showing me the denial. I didn't mention Cuba with regards to sugar babies, and Cuba is a far different animal with regards to prostitution than other Latin countries.

Now, it is different with Covid, but in Mexico prior to Covid, I had a hotel concierge in Mexico City at an upscale hotel bring a hooker to my hotel door. But again, you have been trained to think that Mexico is dangerous and the USA is safe. If you get out of the denial and realistically readjust your benefit: risk ratios, then you may think and act differently as I did. Maybe you need to fear Mexico less and American LE more. I have read at least four mongers say something to the effect that getting a Mexican SB is like shooting fish in a barrel, and I can tell you it is.

In some ways, I do not even want to talk about because it may not benefit me. When I went to Rio in 2004, the amount of Americans there was suffocating, and the prices were higher than in other places. Also, I kind of like mongering to be low key, and it was anything but there. Still, it was kind of cool seeing 25 year old African Americans and 50 something white Americans in a cafe talking strategy on how to score Brazilian pussy something I doubt I would have seen in the USA. Those were the help disco days.

There have been thousands if not tens of thousands of johns in the USA arrested in stings. Seeking has made adjustments to keep from being targeted, and LE has left them alone for now, but things could continue to change.

I loved the world where LE looked at prostitution as a victim less crime, but that world is gone. I had a cop tell me he didn't care about arresting johns for prostitution and was skeptical anyone was being trafficked but he eventually found women who were trafficked, and those few women being trafficked was the excuse for this massive sea change in attitude.

As far as what to do, use a VPN when on this site and other mongering sites. Have two phones where one cannot be directly traced to you. Screen women for criminal backgrounds and stay away from those who have them as they might cut deals with LE to turn you in.

I always thought as long as you had a woman saying you are a good guy you could not get into trouble, but with Kraft, LE put in a camera in the studio. I would use that knowledge to my advantage. Give money in an envelope then instead of cash. Emphasize that you are giving a gift versus paying a wage and steer clear of women who are asking how much. Emphasize to women that their taking a gift after sex is legal but expecting payment for a service is illegal and say that is to their benefit so they do not get arrested for prostitution. Do as much as you can to make your relationship look BF / GF or even mistress like than ho and john.

I did not say LE is coming after mongers. I am just repeating what they said. When LE says they are coming after men paying for sex, it is time to be paranoid not in denial.

Rextor
09-21-20, 00:25
Guess I should probably say something about my experience with Seeking in CDMX. Just got back home from 2 weeks there. I am a candidate in the Moderna vaccine trials and I'm less than 30 years old so I decided that I was done being stuck at home in the US and wanted to venture out. I know passable Spanish and I've always wanted to visit Mexico (outside of Tijuana), and wanted a city relatively close to home, so CDMX was the obvious choice.

One thing to know, which I assume people here already know, is that SA is not just meeting escorts online. It is a lot of work. Seriously, it felt like most of my time not working was spent just herding cats on SA. But the payoff is a GFE that is off-the-charts value if you choose to view it as such. As has been previously mentioned, ideally you would find a girl that is actually in to you, and her need for money and your desire for physical intimacy seals the deal. I'll confess, I am too much of a softy and I ended up not being able to navigate that boundary, as I will detail later on.

Generally speaking prices ranged from 1500 – 4000. I am not here to litigate about paying too much / inflating prices / blah blah blah. I have limited amount of time and close the deal before these girls flake. And rest assured, they'll flake even if you do agree on an arrangement. I don't know if it's my young age or profile, but I received maybe a 20% response rate. My approach was if it there was a hook on their profile I generally referenced it in my intro message, but most profiles are low effort so I opened with a low effort intro (Como estas? I'm visiting Mexico for two weeks).

Anyway here's the rundown.

Week 1.

Sunday – Had been speaking to a cute 20 year old Bartender who had recently been laid off from her airport job. We met and she was nice and talkative. Most museums are still closed due to Covid, but Palacio de Bellas Artes was open so we checked out some cool murals by Diego Rivera and others. Afterwards got some delicious churros off of the central square. Really building some vibes here so we grab a Uber back to my Roma Norte Airbnb.

There we chat over beers and things get hot and heavy. A vigorous and passionate lovemaking session ensues. We talk a bit more, share memes, she teaches me Mexican slang (seriously wacky stuff). And then off she goes with 1500 MXN (70 USD). For that price, you'the be lucky to get a half-hearted quickie from an HK girl on her third dude of the night. I got the better part of 4 hours of guided tour through a cool city – and I fucked the tour guide later!

Monday (Labor Day) – organized to meet a 19 year old at my apartment. Beware of any girls that don't show their body in their photos. No matter how alluring their face may look, ask to see full body pics before setting up the meet. Turned out she was hiding quite a muffin top, and her face was also filtered to hell. Paid her 1000 out of 1500 planned just to get her to bounce ASAP.

Then quickly rang up a 21 year old student who was game to come over. Established some chemistry over coffee and then headed back to the apartment. There we continued to chat and then we moved in. It was a nice session (side note – really getting to brush up on my oral skills, which the girls seem to legitimately enjoy) even though she didn't really want to kiss which brought it down a peg. Also BTW, I used condoms throughout the entire trip, usually at the girls request. Otherwise, a very nice session, paid 2000 MXN (95 USD).

Tuesday – this girl messaged me a few days back and she seemed eager. She was ok, pictures were more or less accurate but maybe a bit fuller in person. Not much to say, as she seemed pretty semi-professional. Her profile was at least a year and a half old, and her making the first move is a pretty sure sign. It wasn't a bad session by "hooker" standards but not what I was shooting for. 2000 + Uber (99 USD).

Wednesday – should mention that at this point I was fighting against a very unexpected an nefarious hemorrhoid issue. I'm too young for this shit. Anyways, I had been in touch with a very different type of profile. Her pictures and Insta painted a picture of a life of significant privilege. In her profile she stressed no one older than 35, and she laughed off my original offer of 2000, saying nothing less than 4000 (189 USD). I was intrigued at the idea of hooking up with a member of the Mexican upper-middle class so I agreed. The day of, my health situation was just not allowing for it, and unfortunately I canceled in a manner that was graceless enough to earn a block from her. And I guess subconsciously I wasn't thrilled at the idea of ponying up close to $200 + overpriced drinks on a Wednesday evening.

Thursday and Friday – chilled and relaxed and let my be-hole rest. As a side note, I've been eating road-side tacos and tortas without any stomach issues. Eating like a king (or at least a lesser baron) for less than $5 a day.

Saturday – Met a 21 year old university chick for lunch and drinks. She was really cute and fun and flirty, but some of these girls. Man. Don't really have their head screwed on straight. We were about to get down to business after she was grinding on me during an impromptu salsa lesson, when she gets a call from her friend in need of being rescued from her boyfriend. It did seem authentic. And then she gets in this weird act of grinding heavily on my hand and moaning, then crying about how she was a bad friend because she was there with me, going to the door to leave, grinding on me again saying she was horny, back to the bed, refusing to kiss because she knew that would get her too hot and cause her to abandon her friend, then asking me if I had ever paid for sex before. It was all very confusing for me and evidently her as well, she was clearly ambivalent about the p4 p situation. Gave her 1000 MXN (47 USD) and she said she'd be open to meet later in the week for a non-paid night out (which I didn't really pursue). Probably the one payout that looking back I actually regret, but I had a somewhat enjoyable time.

Rextor
09-21-20, 00:25
Week 2.

Sunday, part 1 – met a nice, cute 19 year old at my apartment in the morning. Very shy, and very starfish but she seemed to enjoy my oral. The sex was mediocre but she was tight and I enjoyed myself. 1500 MXN (70 USD) for a nice morning quickie, well spent I thought.

I then moved Airbnb's from Roma Norte to Condesa, which I liked a lot better. Hipster / hippie / yuppie, tons of places to walk around and check out, beautiful park right in the middle, and seemed safer than Roma. Got a rather European-vibe from the area, highly recommended.

Sunday, part 2 – intro Hippie Chick. The one thing is, it's really easy to recognize a quality profile on SA when you see one. Clear effort into both sections of her profile, pictures that showed her physical beauty as well as a personality. She was 100% my type physically so I shot her a message. She opened with 4000, and she accepted by counter of 3000 MXN (142 USD). We met at the Museo Tamayo en Chapultapec. She was an absolute cutie, and, as I learned, smart, funny, educated, cultured, and actually the daughter of the ex-mayor of CDMX. She comes from a pretty wealthy and well-connected family. Had a really good time, when back to the apartment and also had a really good time but I did not manage to finish – this girl clearly fucked with my head a bit.

Monday – rest.

Tuesday – met probably the most beautiful woman I'll ever have sex with, but the thing is she had a dick haha. She is a trans model, originally Venezuelan but now living in CDMX. I mean, drop dead gorgeous, once you're with a girl like that you realize that they are on another level. She was headlining publications and PRIDE marches and here I had here in my apartment. Definitely no GFE (always checking her phone for a dinner she was about to go to) but very serviceable in the sack. Once again my oral skills were appreciated and we were both satisfied. Would not repeat, but holy shit, just being in the same room with her was an experience.

Wednesday – got brutally ghosted by a girl I was looking forward to meeting. Just stopped responding to texts like a few hours before meeting. Shrug.

Thursday – Met up with the Bartender from last week. Just had a bite of dinner, walked around Condesa, and headed back to the apartment. Another very nice round, followed by a nice chat about life and relationships. 1500 just as last time.

Friday – was originally planning to meet Hippie Chick again, but scheduling didn't work out so we planned for tomorrow (Saturday).

Saturday – met with Hippie Chick and rolled on M. My first time doing it so I was excited. It's typically more used in more of a party situation, but nothing like that during Covid. So we just chilled in the Airbnb, listened to music, gave / received massages. We ended up not having sex, only cuddling a bit. She received a call from a friend visiting from out of state (second time I've heard "I'm such a bad friend by being here with you right now") so she bounced. It was a strange encounter, and I've been thinking about it a lot. She was much more secure in the arrangement than I was; I was clearly the ambivalent one this time around. That morning I had sent her a text saying that if I was ingesting substances that would open me up emotionally, then I didn't want there to be money involved. I ended up giving her 1000 for the M + 1000 for whatever else we did. She sensed that I had mixed feelings about it, and she offered to give me back 500 and I refused (even though she was the one who asked for a "propina" Pretty confusing experience. I realized that it was probably better that we didn't force anything that night, it just didn't feel right. And I plan on coming back to CDMX again; I feel like just knowing her as a friend would be better and more fun than maintaining a SD / SB relationship. All in all, the thing I regret was not clearly removing the P4 P elements before the trip, it should have just been platonic roll from the get-go, and it would have been much cleaner and funner. Left on good terms, and will keep in touch.

Steve 9696
09-21-20, 01:03
Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.

Beyond disappointing. Totally sucks ass!

Midwestern
09-21-20, 01:53
Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.

Beyond disappointing. Totally sucks ass!An SB once told me that the reason she was on SA is because she realized that she was fucking guys for free on Tinder when she could be fucking guys for money on SA. She said it was like an epiphany for her.

DramaFree11
09-21-20, 01:56
An SB once told me that the reason she was on SA is because she realized that she was fucking guys for free on Tinder when she could be fucking guys for money on SA. She said it was like an epiphany for her.Yep, they have told me the same. This why I love the girls in Russia / Mexico, so much better experience.

Mongerer88
09-21-20, 04:14
You keep saying or at least implying that I like USA Cops.

I don't.

But you keep saying things that aren't supported by an actual analysis of data.

There have not been tens of thousands of Johns arrested in sting operations.

Some of us actually study arrests and techniques.

It seems that your solution when you dislike USA Cops, or read some propaganda that you disagree with, is to abandon the USA Entirely.

That is certainly what the USA Cops want.

Most of us recognize that non-USA Sex workers provide a better value than those in the USA But most USA Johns earn far more than foreign workers when doing the same jobs in the USA So it has never been clear to me why the same principle would not be true for USA Sex workers.

For those of us who do this in the USA, real risk / reward calculations are important, which is why I object to your generalizations and numbers that aren't supported by an analysis of actual data. And massage parlors were never safe, by the way. Even before the Kraft case, if you were in there when a cop was wearing a wire in another room and gave the signal for the backup to arrive after she said the "wrong thing", the cops went around and opened doors trying to find illegal activities in process.

But Seeking Arrangement is one on one private activity that would seem to fall outside of all known arrests and citations. Those of us into seeing independent escorts who screen, and / or Seeking ladies, keep a close watch to see if L. E. Ever crosses boundaries it never has before. I don't think that will ever happen.


I actually thought about why this topic pisses so many people off, and I realize that with any stressful situation the first and second reactions like with grief are denial and then anger. When a guy comes in and talks about the risk and breaks through the denial like I did, the anger, which I have told you all has happened before, should be expected.

You have two choices mongering in the USA: you can accept that if you pay for sex that you are supporting human trafficking as law enforcement says or you can think like I do LE is fucking crazy and make adjustments based on that fact.

You are programmed with all you watch to think LE is filled with heroes and good guys instead of just thinking about them as the people they are. What woke me up to this was one police officer who arrested me and was fired the next day because basically he was an idiot and everyone wanted to know what I did wrong. What actually happened is the police officer did not know the law. When I said what I was stopped for, the response was that I probably said something wrong as if that was something that I should be arrested for. Here were people who knew me and had known me for decades throwing the first amendment in the trash can just so they could cling to the notion that what happened to me would not happen to them..

Levelup34
09-21-20, 04:36
Great review. Hoping to get down there in Oct.


Week 2.

Sunday, part 1 met a nice, cute 19 year old at my apartment in the morning. Very shy, and very starfish but she seemed to enjoy my oral. The sex was mediocre but she was tight and I enjoyed myself. 1500 MXN (70 USD) for a nice morning quickie, well spent I thought.

I then moved Airbnb's from Roma Norte to Condesa, which I liked a lot better. Hipster / hippie / yuppie, tons of places to walk around and check out, beautiful park right in the middle, and seemed safer than Roma. Got a rather European-vibe from the area, highly recommended.

Sunday, part 2 intro Hippie Chick. The one thing is, it's really easy to recognize a quality profile on SA when you see one. Clear effort into both sections of her profile, pictures that showed her physical beauty as well as a personality. She was 100% my type physically so I shot her a message. She opened with 4000, and she accepted by counter of 3000 MXN (142 USD). We met at the Museo Tamayo en Chapultapec. She was an absolute cutie, and, as I learned, smart, funny, educated, cultured, and actually the daughter of the ex-mayor of CDMX. She comes from a pretty wealthy and well-connected family. Had a really good time, when back to the apartment and also had a really good time but I did not manage to finish this girl clearly fucked with my head a bit..

Midwestern
09-21-20, 11:43
For me.

(4) Any girl that specifies "wanting to e spoiled" or "wanting to enjoy the finer things in life" is OFF my list. For me it shows that they have the wrong expectation of the SB-SD agreement. I know that for me as a SD I'm not searching in the oe of finding a girl just so I can have the fun of throwing money at them. That happens for the right girl with a sensible performance based attitude.I totally avoid those profiles too. This is why SA is a lot of work. Sometimes, I will go through a hundred profiles until I find one that I like.

Midwestern
09-21-20, 11:54
Week 2.

Tuesday met probably the most beautiful woman I'll ever have sex with, but the thing is she had a dick haha. She is a trans model, originally Venezuelan but now living in CDMX. I mean, drop dead gorgeous, once you're with a girl like that you realize that they are on another level. She was headlining publications and PRIDE marches and here I had here in my apartment. Definitely no GFE (always checking her phone for a dinner she was about to go to) but very serviceable in the sack. Once again my oral skills were appreciated and we were both satisfied. Would not repeat, but holy shit, just being in the same room with her was an experience.

Your two weeks in CDMX was fucking EPIC! As I was reading about your second week, I almost choked on my drink when I read about your Tuesday. I'm still like, LOLWUT! Thanks for sharing your adventures, man. I'm sure everyone on here benefited from it, learned something, and enjoyed reading it.

Midwestern
09-21-20, 12:05
I only saw her twice in the past couple of weeks, once for lunch, and another time in a movie room, which is like a KTV room, but it's for watching movies, at $8 an hour. There's a huge bed in the room, and we fooled around for two hours. Then, I didn't see her for a week because I was busy at work and also her Aunt Flo visited. But we text each other every day.

Anyway, I finally saw her today, and we had a hot 2. 5 hour love making session. She said she loved me. I am starting to have real feelings for her too.

I didn't give her a dime today. She even paid for the hotel room ($30).

So far, this saga has lasted for 3. 5 weeks.

Eventually, I will start paying her $1,200 per month, which was our previously agreed arrangement before we got into a huge fight when I told her that I was married. I have to give her money, because I can't have her thinking that this is a real relationship.

My update seems pathetic compared to Rextor's epic report and SA adventures, but I'm a pretty happy camper right now.


We met today. She gave me a dirty look. I apologized. She then said get ready for a slap to the face, but she just tapped me gently. I again said sorry, and I gave her my best puppy dog eyes, and she said let's never talk about this again. Then, we proceeded to spend the next 3 hours together. Just walking around, holding hands, kissing, chatting, and finally lunch. It didn't feel awkward at all.

We didn't discuss any arrangement today, because I thought it was too soon to bring it up. My only damage today was the price of a meal and my time. But I had a great time. She makes me laugh. Plus, she's just really hot. When I saw her today, it seemed like every guy around was looking at her. Well, in her skin tight jeans and skin tight shirt, you'd have to be gay not to stare at her, LOL.

But now, I'm pretty horny, so I might have to spend the afternoon with a high end pro.

Rextor
09-21-20, 13:31
Your two weeks in CDMX was fucking EPIC! As I was reading about your second week, I almost choked on my drink when I read about your Tuesday. I'm still like, LOLWUT! Thanks for sharing your adventures, man. I'm sure everyone on here benefited from it, learned something, and enjoyed reading it.Glad you liked it. Pandemic conditions until at least middle 2021 + being vaccinated + being able to work remotely + disposable income = more fucking around in foreign countries upcoming. Colombia is likely next, as I have a novia-lite there that I've been talking to for like the last 6 months LOL.

And yeah kids these days are fucking and sucking whomever, and the world is a better place for it.

WyattEarp
09-21-20, 15:51
Steve and Midwestern, thanks again for your insights. When screening profiles, it's good to know that other than the obvious non-starters that there are many different types of profiles that can lead to good encounters. I don't consider FWB too forward. I like a girl who notes discretion. Any girl who discusses having fun in her profile is making a good impression.

While I have not stuck my toe in the Sugar Bowl, I started to realize that these young women were not always sure how to stick out from the crowd and make a good impression. Should she come on strong? Should she be chill? She doesn't want to come off like a szlut on her public profile, etc, etc. I think there are plenty of pretty girls who have photos in clothing that show off their figure (bikini or not). They seem genuine and interested in a good time.

I am mostly considering SA for the USA Right now. Although Rextor's great trip makes me think you can plan a fun vacation (if you don't mind some flakes and head games). The expectation as a foreign visitor has to be that the relationship is one or two nights. Yes, if you really dig someone you can meet up on another trip or fly them to meet you somewhere. I am more worried of USA SBs who want more from me, get crazy and indiscreet.

Let me insert here, I like Steve's not too young (too flaky), not too old (thinking about being married) analysis of his experiences. He recommends the 21-24 year old girl who is sexual, adventurous and just wants to have fun. (I hope I got that right, Steve.) Midwestern, I don't rule out divorced women. I have also dated them on occasion. It's nice when they just want to have fun and nothing serious. And yes, Midwestern I like intelligent girls. I couldn't relate to dumb twentysomething women even when I was a twentysomething.

WyattEarp
09-21-20, 16:06
Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.On a related note, does anyone know any social websites where you can meet attractive women in their 40's-50's? You used to be able to find mature women on yahoo personals or even craigslist if you were lucky. I know some of you don't consider mature women, but with plastic surgery and health clubs there are quite a few women in that age group that still got it. In the rare occasion I run into an attractive mature (sans wedding ring) at the store, the health club or in an office building, I usually flirt my ass off. They are very receptive to flirtation anywhere, anytime at that age. If they size you up, agree to meet you and they like you, there is not going to be the third date-fourth date slow Bolero build-up to the bedroom. Mature women don't waste time.

It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.

Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?

Luminous
09-21-20, 16:19
Loved your insight. I just find it hard finding mature woman that look half way decent and take care of themselves!



It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.

Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?

Travv
09-21-20, 16:51
You might want to check into free cruises on "Loveboats" that cater to women travellers. Talked to one guy who went on a free cruise in exchange for going to social activities and dancing with mature female paying passengers. Apparently there was a shortage of men for these older mature women so the cruise ship was giving out free cruises to get enough men on board to go to social activities with the mature ladies. Be prepared to dance a lot and be pursued on the ship by herds of mature "groupies."


On a related note, does anyone know any social websites where you can meet attractive women in their 40's-50's? You used to be able to find mature women on yahoo personals or even craigslist if you were lucky. I know some of you don't consider mature women, but with plastic surgery and health clubs there are quite a few women in that age group that still got it. In the rare occasion I run into an attractive mature (sans wedding ring) at the store, the health club or in an office building, I usually flirt my ass off. They are very receptive to flirtation anywhere, anytime at that age. If they size you up, agree to meet you and they like you, there is not going to be the third date-fourth date slow Bolero build-up to the bedroom. Mature women don't waste time.

It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.

Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?

WyattEarp
09-21-20, 20:31
You might want to check into free cruises on "Loveboats" that cater to women travellers. Talked to one guy who went on a free cruise in exchange for going to social activities and dancing with mature female paying passengers. Apparently there was a shortage of men for these older mature women so the cruise ship was giving out free cruises to get enough men on board to go to social activities with the mature ladies. Be prepared to dance a lot and be pursued on the ship by herds of mature "groupies."I would think that is a little older than I'm thinking, The cruise scene sounds like 60's and 70's. There are a few bars in my city that cater to an older crowd. Retro music, dancing, etc. You run into the same issues that you have in pick-up places. It's too loud, can't have a conversation, everything devolves to a base level of attraction, your clothes, your watch, blah, blah, blah. Don't get me wrong. It can be fun. However, younger guys show up so a hot, woman in her 40's who just wants action knows she can score a thirty year-old guy.

I don't mind the competition, but I prefer meeting women when they least expect it. They tend to be impressed with someone who can come up to them in a store or non-club environs.

This reminds me of a time I was shopping years ago. This attractive, older woman put something in my cart by accident (or maybe not by accident. I have very bold, quick reactions and immediately said "What are you doing? Are you coming home with me?" The lady was a gamer and quickly replied "Why? Do you want me to?" We laughed and talked. I got her number and took her out a few times. Always winding up at her nice house. She was a firecracker.

Elvis 2008
09-22-20, 00:21
Glad you liked it.Rextor,

I liked your report as well. I will say that the escort scene was much better than the SB scene preCovid in Mexico City. I have two Mexican SBs now who meet my needs there, and I have given up trying to find better.


Pandemic conditions until at least middle 2021 + being vaccinated + being able to work remotely + disposable income = more fucking around in foreign countries upcoming.Colombia is likely next, as I have a novia-lite there that I've been talking to for like the last 6 months.Colombia is a gold mine. I have been talking to six hot women, and all the guys there have been saying how great it is. You need a Covid PCR test, and it was $450 in my area and kind of a hassle so So I plan on going to Fort Lauderdale tomorrow and then heading out the following day after getting the test for $170 here: https://labdoctor.org/.

I hope they do not require this test for long. Anyway, with seeking, I would always shoot for the best looking women. With the USA, that meant like a date a month. Precovid, with Mexico City, that was like two dates a week. After Covid, I was going on a date a day.

In Bogota, preCovid it was one a day. In Medellin, it was two per day, so I cannot imagine what it is like now.

I am not going to be able to see all the women I have been chatting up in Colombia which is fucking crazy. I am only going to be able to meet 4 out of the 6 I have been chatting up.

Every country in the world has the best women available, every country but the USA. I guess all that government bailout money has prevented what has been going on in other countries.

Midwestern
09-22-20, 00:55
It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.

Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?

I like older women too. Older women that are not married usually take good care of themselves, I guess to maintain their marketability. I actually met a bunch on SA. I can think of two right now off the top of my head. At the time, both were in their 50's, while I was in my late 40's. They were phenomenal in the sack. As for payment, both said that I could give them whatever I wanted. The money was just a small bonus for them. They just wanted to fuck. One lived in a huge house on the lake. She always made me amazing dinners, and then amazing breakfasts the next day. The other one had a great job. So, neither were on SA for the money. Both had huge fake tits, which I loved. For me, for some strange reason, big fake tits on a 50-something is hotter than big fake tits on a 20-something.

I used to go to cougar bars, but there's usually young guys that go there too, and the hot cougars always ended up going home with them, so I just quit that scene.

In fact, I just feel like it's pretty easy to hook up with someone in their 50s, but you're right in that we have to know where to find them, especially the ones that take good care of themselves.

Married women are another possibility. Some of them haven't had sex in years. But not sure where your ethics are with this. I had an affair last year with someone whose been married for over 20 years. Her husband doesn't even kiss her. And the last time she had sex was 6 years ago, and that was also an extramarital affair. So, she and I would meet once or even twice per week, and all we did was fuck. We barely even chatted. She never asked for a dime. That was the perfect arrangement, LOL.

Mongerer88
09-22-20, 01:21
Several recent posts mention Robert Kraft.

Based on today's report, it appears that his case will have a Happy Ending.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/21/metro/kraft-case-likely-be-dropped-after-prosecutors-forgo-appeal/?outputType=amp/

Kraft really should get a Sugar Baby.

As a New England escort put it, Kraft cannot he expected to masturbate himself while wearing that many Super Bowl rings, and no one in Florida could possibly understand that.

Elvis 2008
09-22-20, 06:44
[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the subject was not related to the purpose of this Forum, which is as follows:

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex.

WyattEarp
09-22-20, 15:57
............She always made me amazing dinners, and then amazing breakfasts the next day. The other one had a great job. So, neither were on SA for the money. Both had huge fake tits, which I loved. For me, for some strange reason, big fake tits on a 50-something is hotter than big fake tits on a 20-something.
..........................

Married women are another possibility. Some of them haven't had sex in years. But not sure where your ethics are with this. I had an affair last year with someone whose been married for over 20 years. Her husband doesn't even kiss her. And the last time she had sex was 6 years ago, and that was also an extramarital affair. So, she and I would meet once or even twice per week, and all we did was fuck. We barely even chatted. She never asked for a dime. That was the perfect arrangement, LOL.Yes, I absolutely agree fake tits look better on an older woman.

I've been lucky with the divorced and widowed. Divorce mostly. Those hot SBs who marry their SDs are certainly widowed at a fairly early age. Just sayin'.

Midwestern, thanks again. Can I ask you to do me a favor? Can you specify the countries where you have had these experiences? It sounds like you get around the globe and everyone seems to agree the USA Sugar baby scene is very different.

WyattEarp
09-22-20, 16:00
Several recent posts mention Robert Kraft.

Based on today's report, it appears that his case will have a Happy Ending.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/21/metro/kraft-case-likely-be-dropped-after-prosecutors-forgo-appeal/?outputType=amp/

Kraft really should get a Sugar Baby.

As a New England escort put it, Kraft cannot he expected to masturbate himself while wearing that many Super Bowl rings, and no one in Florida could possibly understand that.Peter-sahn, you funny!

Midwestern
09-23-20, 01:36
Midwestern, thanks again. Can I ask you to do me a favor? Can you specify the countries where you have had these experiences? It sounds like you get around the globe and everyone seems to agree the USA Sugar baby scene is very different.I used SA only in the USA. I was on it during 2014-2016. I was very active on SA when I used it. I used it in at least 9 different cities, mostly in SF. Wait, I just remembered that I used SA a lot in Niagara Falls, Canada, too. Actually, SA was amazing in Niagara Falls. Many of the gals that worked in the tourism industry were often hard up for money and looking for ways to make extra income. Same with Las Vegas, which is another place where I used SA sort of actively.

Right now, I'm stuck in Shanghai, and I say "stuck" because I am also partly based in the USA, but due to Covid, I'm currently in Shanghai full time. But as far as mongering goes, being in Shanghai now is pretty awesome, as life and mongering are pretty much back to normal here.

In Shanghai, the wealth disparity is huge. At least a couple of million migrant workers are here, from 2nd and 3rd tier Chinese cities. They work in construction, in restaurants, as housekeepers, at stores, as security officers, as cleaners, etc. In the past couple of years, I have discovered that these gals are prime for arrangements. Almost all of them are just flattered that a foreigner would be romantically attracted to them. These days, I prefer hooking with these migrant workers instead of with pros, simply because I think the migrant workers that I hook up with genuinely like me, which is what I liked about the girls on SA as well.

BTW, that was an awesome line that you used on that lady at the store! I laughed when I read it. Reminded me of one time when I was walking behind three people in NYC, and I overheard the woman say, "Where are all the good men?" And then I suddenly chimed in from behind, "I'm right here!" They all had a good laugh, and we exchanged digits.

NeilGeorge
09-23-20, 01:54
Married women are another possibility. Some of them haven't had sex in years. But not sure where your ethics are with this. I had an affair last year with someone whose been married for over 20 years. Her husband doesn't even kiss her. And the last time she had sex was 6 years ago, and that was also an extramarital affair.Women are Liars, worse than we are! They practice their lies with their girlfriends. Then they try their lies on men, looks like you believed their bull shit. They want strange Dick just like we want strange ass and pussy!

Most married men say their wives have not given them any for years and they sleep in separate rooms, they say that to innocent young women who believe it like you did! LOL!

Il Drago
09-23-20, 02:43
Thanks for all the info. It has helped out.

I'm stuck in the US unfortunately. But I would love to taste some central european juices these days LOL.

I'm looking to travel hopefully next year and I was thinking to try something new. I've been to Europe countless times and as I write this I think of some of the chicks that I want to see when I can get there again. Haven't had the FKK experience yet, or the asian experience. I've been to Japan, but wasn't mongering then. So I was considering where to go once Americans can easily cross borders again.

It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.You should try Belgrade. Food is cheap & amazing. The night life is wild & unique. If you know somebody who is connected, you can get super favorable deals on accommodation 200-300 euro for 1 month for a very decent apartment with great privacy, you do not have to stay the whole month, but that is what you pay, but you will want to stay 1 month, trust me. There are amazing SPAs with pools for very cheep prices. If you know somebody connected, you can rent the pool for several hours for you & a girl for a great price. The good thing about Serbia & Belgrade is that you can enter without any restrictions. I know several guys from America who are currently there. You should definitely think about Belgrade. Did I forget to mention? The girls are super hot, amazingly beautiful.

Steve 9696
09-23-20, 02:53
A quick update on Layla who remains my regular thing during Covid. So last time we were together we had a solid time but during pillow talk she got very solicitous and asked what can she do to be a better sugar baby? WTF? That's amazing service. I like that!

Well I was honest and said our room time is a bit mechanical and forced — it doesn't flow well. She took this under advisement in good spirits. We had previously discussed the fact that she gets drunk super easy. So we kind of made a joint plan to liquor her up and see where things go.

Next night out we started with a brilliant dinner. This was super nice because every time so far we have gone direct to room. It was good just to chat. I learned so much about her. She is no shallow girl. More facets than a diamond. Oh and she used to be a stripper. I seem to attract this persona! This will pay off later in the night.

So we got a bottle of wine after dinner and headed to the room for a WILD time. Lady Tigress was in hiding! She is a COMPLETELY different girl when liquored up. Soooo much fun. And she just smiles and giggles nonstop. And OMG her smile. Its just amazing. She has two wattages -- standard OMG wattage and drop a load in your shoe wattage. Amazing!

We started over by the dresser just getting naked and drinking wine. She threw it back pretty quickly and was getting loopy. She gets super sexy and smily when drunk so this was totally working. At some point she puts me in the chair and says let me do my stripper thing. (totally naked). She's clearly done this before. She is doing the sexy cat and down between my legs and up for back grind, but mixed in with BJ. She knows WTF she is doing and gets me hard as a brick.

Well I am pretty drunk so perilously hard to finish, but we do:

CG in chair.

RCG in chair.

Mish on bed.

Doggie on bed.

Half spoon half doggie.

Doggie closed legs.

Doggie prone bone.

More mish.

Masturbation show.

Lots of ball licking and sucking.

Passionate DFK (short tho).

Eventually shoot a load on her chest via HJ and BLS. Very nice.

If I had any doubts if she is a keeper or not, those were blown away. I just need to get her liquored up to get the tigress Layla, not the robot Layla!

Midwestern
09-23-20, 06:36
My favorite thing in the entire world is drunk sex. To me, the difference between sex and drunk sex is huge. If I can do the latter, I'll do it every day. If I can only do the former, then I can sometimes go a week without sex.

Great report, BTW.

Normally, I'd be jealous, but I had too had a great session recently with my arrangement.




Well I am pretty drunk so perilously hard to finish, but we do:

CG in chair.

RCG in chair.

Mish on bed.

Doggie on bed.

Half spoon half doggie.

Doggie closed legs.

Doggie prone bone.

More mish.

Masturbation show.

Lots of ball licking and sucking.

Passionate DFK (short tho).

Eventually shoot a load on her chest via HJ and BLS. Very nice.

If I had any doubts if she is a keeper or not, those were blown away. I just need to get her liquored up to get the tigress Layla, not the robot Layla!

LshRoomer
09-23-20, 15:35
My favorite thing in the entire world is drunk sex. To me, the difference between sex and drunk sex is huge. If I can do the latter, I'll do it every day. If I can only do the former, then I can sometimes go a week without sex.

Great report, BTW.

Normally, I'd be jealous, but I had too had a great session recently with my arrangement.There are times, especially in Denver or Amsterdam where an edible (just a bit) can really change the tides of the encounter. If you just dip your foot in the water with 2 MG or so (not much more unless you are a seasoned partaker), and one or two beers, you will definitely see the difference. Just like alcohol, don't ingest too much and it will guarantee you a great night.

I once gave my SB an edible in Prague and told her to take it easy (don't eat too much) and that it takes about an 1-2 hours to kick in. She was already buzzed from our outing, and after 30 minutes complained a bit that she didn't' feel it. After 90 minutes or so, I could tell she was feeling the edible and she became completely uninhibited. Great sex and my camera failed me, I was so mad. LOL.

Akibono
09-24-20, 04:46
My favorite thing in the entire world is drunk sex. To me, the difference between sex and drunk sex is huge. If I can do the latter, I'll do it every day. If I can only do the former, then I can sometimes go a week without sex.

Great report, BTW.

Normally, I'd be jealous, but I had too had a great session recently with my arrangement.I am wondering how the girl feels the day after. Did she enjoy the experience and want to do it again or was she afraid of being her uninhibited self? So girls are naturally dtf, but other require some help in lowering inhibitions.

Steve 9696
09-24-20, 17:18
I am wondering how the girl feels the day after. Did she enjoy the experience and want to do it again or was she afraid of being her uninhibited self? So girls are naturally dtf, but other require some help in lowering inhibitions.Layla says she gets too crazy when she gets drunk. So she is only going to drink with me. Do I believe this? Nope. But happy to perpetuate the fantasy! Let's get drunk together babe just you and me. 😋.

Btw I do believe u will for sure have more success with a girl who is drinking — I don’t mean this in a bad way — not to take advantage of her but we are all a bit more DTF when drinking. I have had 4 “coffee dates” and other than Layla who has played the game before and DTF, the other three were fails. They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasn’t for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.

Although one just sent me a naked pic out of the blue. She said she just wanted to brighten my day. Still not sure about SB but it feels like a crack in the wall for sure! I will see if I can get her out for drinks...

WyattEarp
09-24-20, 18:22
They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasnt for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.Nothing personal Steve, I don't know your age or your looks, but I think some of these girls fantasize about handsome guys in their thirties and early forties sweeping them off their feet.

This is just an anecdote. I was following a city I travel to occasionally on SA. Over several months, this pretty girl (who looks like my ex-GF who was crazy in the sack) lowered her age from 60 to 50 and now 40. Granted everyone fudges on their age so perhaps when she put down 50 she was getting propositioned by 60 year old guys. Forty years old though, really?

Steve 9696
09-24-20, 19:00
Nothing personal Steve, I don't know your age or your looks, but I think some of these girls fantasize about handsome guys in their thirties and early forties sweeping them off their feet.

This is just an anecdote. I was following a city I travel to occasionally on SA. Over several months, this pretty girl (who looks like my ex-GF who was crazy in the sack) lowered her age from 60 to 50 and now 40. Granted everyone fudges on their age so perhaps when she put down 50 she was getting propositioned by 60 year old guys. Forty years old though, really?You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:

Dinner / alcohol - 22 for 23 (and would have been 23 for 23 had I known early what I know now. Still missing that one that got away (second SA date ever) and still hope to see her again! We had mad chemistry but I was amateurish.

Lunch / Coffee / No alcohol - 1 for 4. (Layla).

It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.

And guys out there reading this - dont think I am 22 for 23 because I am some great looking stud. Far from it. Yes I am not objectionable but far from super handsome. 98% of it is being charming and fun to be with (and having money LOL) Just enjoy the moment and make sure they are having a blast and the rest will follow.

And if u are feeling rusty with ur game (or never had one - here’s looking at u Steve!) go check out Attraction Japan and the Playbook. This is all about street pickup in Japan but man just the basics of how to handle girls — total eye opener for me.

LshRoomer
09-24-20, 19:14
Layla says she gets too crazy when she gets drunk. So she is only going to drink with me. Do I believe this? Nope. But happy to perpetuate the fantasy! Let's get drunk together babe just you and me. 😋.

Btw I do believe u will for sure have more success with a girl who is drinking I dont mean this in a bad way not to take advantage of her but we are all a bit more DTF when drinking. I have had 4 coffee dates and other than Layla who has played the game before and DTF, the other three were fails. They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasnt for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.

Although one just sent me a naked pic out of the blue. She said she just wanted to brighten my day. Still not sure about SB but it feels like a crack in the wall for sure! I will see if I can get her out for drinks...Very interesting sir. I haven't had a "coffee date" so far, though it has been proposed (and turned down). My goto is always drinks and / or dinner. If a girl tells me she doesn't drink, I usually shy away from her. I'm not saying that nondrinkers won't give you a great session, be spontaneous, and uninhibited. It just hasn't been my experience. Just like you mentioned, my intent isn't to get them sloppy drunk in order to bang them, it's more that drinks make the conversation flow more smoothly and lower inhibitions both sexually and conversationally. In my case, I am usually in town for a couple of days max, so I need the SB to warm up really fast in order to enjoy each other and establish a foundation for next time.

Quick question:

Imagine you have a great night out with an SB and you pay the agreed upon PPM (300 euro in my case). If she then text you a few days later and ask, "What you doing tonight" and wants you to go out with her, is this considered a "meet" (in general)?

Why do I ask?? This has happened a few times, but only with 2 SBs. With both girls I have made the assumption that I will pay for out outing and maybe if the mood suites us, we will return back to my place for end of night sex (and we did). With both girls, I did not pay the PPM whenever they asked me to go out. However, I have paid the PPM when I have needed their time. What do you guys think, PPM even when they ask you out or not?

02 requested LOL.

Akibono
09-24-20, 21:53
Layla says she gets too crazy when she gets drunk. So she is only going to drink with me. Do I believe this? Nope. But happy to perpetuate the fantasy! Let's get drunk together babe just you and me. 😋.

Btw I do believe u will for sure have more success with a girl who is drinking I dont mean this in a bad way not to take advantage of her but we are all a bit more DTF when drinking. I have had 4 coffee dates and other than Layla who has played the game before and DTF, the other three were fails. They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasnt for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.

Although one just sent me a naked pic out of the blue. She said she just wanted to brighten my day. Still not sure about SB but it feels like a crack in the wall for sure! I will see if I can get her out for drinks...It seems like she is sending a message. Why not kid her about how sex she looks and what a tease. And then introduce a subtle statement about sex? If she is testing the waters, you'll get the message. But you are already a pro.

AmorPorFavor
09-24-20, 23:28
You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:

What kind of prices are you paying per meet for a hot, a 9 or 10, young SB in a major US city?

AmorPorFavor
09-24-20, 23:30
You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:

Dinner / alcohol - 22 for 23 (and would have been 23 for 23 had I known early what I know now. Still missing that one that got away (second SA date ever) and still hope to see her again! We had mad chemistry but I was amateurish.

Lunch / Coffee / No alcohol - 1 for 4. (Layla).

It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.

And guys out there reading this - dont think I am 22 for 23 because I am some great looking stud. Far from it. Yes I am not objectionable but far from super handsome. 98% of it is being charming and fun to be with (and having money LOL) Just enjoy the moment and make sure they are having a blast and the rest will follow.

And if u are feeling rusty with ur game (or never had one - heres looking at u Steve!) go check out Attraction Japan and the Playbook. This is all about street pickup in Japan but man just the basics of how to handle girls total eye opener for me.What are you paying per meet for a hot (9 or10) young SB in major US cities?

DramaFree11
09-24-20, 23:51
A quick update on Layla who remains my regular thing during Covid. So last time we were together we had a solid time but during pillow talk she got very solicitous and asked what can she do to be a better sugar baby? WTF? That's amazing service. I like that!

Well I was honest and said our room time is a bit mechanical and forced it doesn't flow well. She took this under advisement in good spirits. We had previously discussed the fact that she gets drunk super easy. So we kind of made a joint plan to liquor her up and see where things go.

Next night out we started with a brilliant dinner. This was super nice because every time so far we have gone direct to room. It was good just to chat. I learned so much about her. She is no shallow girl. More facets than a diamond. Oh and she used to be a stripper. I seem to attract this persona! This will pay off later in the night.

So we got a bottle of wine after dinner and headed to the room for a WILD time. Lady Tigress was in hiding! She is a COMPLETELY different girl when liquored up. Soooo much fun. And she just smiles and giggles nonstop. And OMG her smile. Its just amazing. She has two wattages -- standard OMG wattage and drop a load in your shoe wattage. Amazing!Last Saturday I met up with my slash part time model in MTY. We go have a great dinner and drinks at my favorite Steak House. We Get home all that plus anal. We wake up and have sex again. Finally we get up take showers off to the SPA, great experience. Get home I had bought some toys. We break them out. She sticks one in her ass and we go at it for 1 hour Sunday afternoon. All for $200 to her. Spa $150 and Dinner was $150, but trust me we got our money worth at the restaurant.

DramaFree11
09-25-20, 00:20
You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:

Dinner / alcohol - 22 for 23 (and would have been 23 for 23 had I known early what I know now. Still missing that one that got away (second SA date ever) and still hope to see her again! We had mad chemistry but I was amateurish.

Lunch / Coffee / No alcohol - 1 for 4. (Layla).

It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.

And guys out there reading this - dont think I am 22 for 23 because I am some great looking stud. Far from it. Yes I am not objectionable but far from super handsome. 98% of it is being charming and fun to be with (and having money LOL) Just enjoy the moment and make sure they are having a blast and the rest will follow.

And if u are feeling rusty with ur game (or never had one - heres looking at u Steve!) go check out Attraction Japan and the Playbook. This is all about street pickup in Japan but man just the basics of how to handle girls total eye opener for me.In the states I real do not mess around with lunch dates, usually a waste of time, for many different reasons. Also if they do not drink thing tend to be more difficult. These rules do not apply to Mexico and Russia. Mexican Girls love sex during the day, way more normal there, because of the there insane and controlling parents. (If they only knew what their daughters are doing.).

Midwestern
09-25-20, 00:34
This is just an anecdote. I was following a city I travel to occasionally on SA. Over several months, this pretty girl (who looks like my ex-GF who was crazy in the sack) lowered her age from 60 to 50 and now 40. Granted everyone fudges on their age so perhaps when she put down 50 she was getting propositioned by 60 year old guys. Forty years old though, really?LOL, older gals always lie about their age. I had a similar experience. She was a year younger than me (at the time, I was late 40's), but she initially posted her age as 37, then a year later, I noticed she changed it to 33. She's never been married, so she kept her figure and looks. So, if they think they can pull it off, then more power to them.




It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.

Agree on both counts. Daytime meets feel like a business meeting. Very awkward. And alcohol definitely makes the date feel more natural, as inhibitions are relaxed, both hers and mine.

To Akibono, I never encourage anyone to drink. I never make a girl do something that she doesn't want to do. So, I've never had a girl regret it the next morning if they drank.


Very interesting sir. I haven't had a "coffee date" so far, though it has been proposed (and turned down). My goto is always drinks and / or dinner. If a girl tells me she doesn't drink, I usually shy away from her.

Quick question:

Imagine you have a great night out with an SB and you pay the agreed upon PPM (300 euro in my case). If she then text you a few days later and ask, "What you doing tonight" and wants you to go out with her, is this considered a "meet" (in general)?

Why do I ask?? This has happened a few times, but only with 2 SBs. With both girls I have made the assumption that I will pay for out outing and maybe if the mood suites us, we will return back to my place for end of night sex (and we did). With both girls, I did not pay the PPM whenever they asked me to go out. However, I have paid the PPM when I have needed their time. What do you guys think, PPM even when they ask you out or not?I actually screen on drinking, to make sure she drinks. As I mentioned before, I love drunk sex, so she's got to be a drinker. Heavier the better, but not pass out drunk, obviously.

As for your question, if a gal contacted me, I would still PPM. It's the arrangement, after all, and no mention of who initiates a meet. I always want to make sure there this isn't a real relationship. If I don't stick to the arrangement, then they might think we are in a real relationship, and I cannot have them thinking that. I had a couple of instances where the gal began to think we were in a real relationship, and both ended badly and both hate me now. Last thing that I need.


What are you paying per meet for a hot (9 or10) young SB in major US cities?Based on what's in this thread, 500 for big cities like SF and NYC, 400 in other large cities, 300 in small cities. If you live somewhere really rural, then lower than 300 is possible.

Midwestern
09-25-20, 00:50
Any of you guys keep an extra apartment to use as a love shack? I'm about to rent an apartment (I verbally agreed yesterday, but haven't signed anything yet).

It looks like (fingers crossed) that I'll be maintaining two arrangements actively. I did the math, and the rent on the apartment ($1400 per month) is going to cost significantly more than using a hotel (tough to estimate monthly hotel cost due to unknown number of meetups, but the cost is in the ballpark of $800 to $1600 per month but probably closer to $800 for most months).

I'm willing to pay the extra cost of having a love shack so that I don't have to deal with hotels all the time. Especially the constraints, such as checking in after 2 pm and then having to reappear the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out early, but if I always do this, then they'll probably think I'm doing something illicit. Plus, I hate dealing with the hassle of sneaking girls into hotels. And there's also the hassle of having to keep changing and using different hotels all the time. Finally, just want a place to chill.

Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.

DiverOyster
09-25-20, 02:58
What are you paying per meet for a hot (9 or10) young SB in major US cities?I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. I am fairly new on SA though (a few months). I met a stripper who is a 7-8 (beautiful face but some baby fat at tummy) at a local strip club (she is also coincidentally chatting with me on SA without knowing it) and she asked for 1,000 for about 4 hours during the day or overnight. She later budged to 800. I tried to bargain her to 1,000 per week with 2 meetings (so 500 per meeting) per week but she didn't bite. So far she is the most beautiful SA chic that I met.

I am chatting online with a gorgeous chic on SA but so far I haven't met her in person yet. She wants a long term relationship with connection and all that so it will take some time.

Pessimist
09-25-20, 04:03
I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. I am fairly new on SA though (a few months). I met a stripper who is a 7-8 (beautiful face but some baby fat at tummy) at a local strip club (she is also coincidentally chatting with me on SA without knowing it) and she asked for 1,000 for about 4 hours during the day or overnight. She later budged to 800. I tried to bargain her to 1,000 per week with 2 meetings (so 500 per meeting) per week but she didn't bite. So far she is the most beautiful SA chic that I met.

I am chatting online with a gorgeous chic on SA but so far I haven't met her in person yet. She wants a long term relationship with connection and all that so it will take some time.That is way too much. The most I paid for "one meet" was $700 when I girl stayed with me for roughly 36 hours (two nights and a day) in a major city in the US. Yes, she was pretty, a skinny blonde. I would never pay $800 for 4 hours of SB session. First of all, most sugarbabes do tend to stay for a couple of hours of sex (much longer if including a lunch or dinner time together is included). And my normal is a couple of hundred, most often less than 300.

I would advise you not to fall for such prices. Unless you are doing this in an expensive city such as NYC, Boston, SF, etc.

Nounce
09-25-20, 04:30
Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.You may want to check to find out if it is legal for a married man to have an affair in China, then weight the consequence. Usually wife will want to keep things quiet so it is not as bad the girl using it as a threat when things don't work out.

Midwestern
09-25-20, 04:51
You may want to check to find out if it is legal for a married man to have an affair in China, then weight the consequence. Usually wife will want to keep things quiet so it is not as bad the girl using it as a threat when things don't work out.From what I've been told, it is illegal for a married man to have an affair. Also, from what I've been told, when police cannot prove that there was a monetary transaction involved, then they will charge you for having sex outside of marriage.

I'm thinking about telling the girls that I am renting this place using AirBnB.

However, I am concerned about my neighbors ratting me out. In China, anyone can get social credits for being a good citizen, and being a good citizen includes ratting out people.

Midwestern
09-25-20, 04:58
I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. Actually, this is a fair point. I was on SA for 1. 5 years, and I used it quite actively in at least 9 cities, and I never met a 9 on SA. There were some 9's based on their pictures, but I couldn't get a meetup with most of them, but I did get a meetup with a few and they were not 9's in person. So, I fell for the photoshop. I don't understand why women exaggerate their beauty that much, as it only leads to disappointment when the face-to-face meetup occurs, but I digress.

I guess the 9's don't need to use SA. I think most 9's that are looking for money will just marry a rich guy.

Nounce
09-25-20, 06:51
I'm thinking about telling the girls that I am renting this place using AirBnB.
Airbnb maybe a better choice. Have you checked the price? I just checked and all the prices I saw are less than $900 for a month.

Midwestern
09-25-20, 10:47
Airbnb maybe a better choice. Have you checked the price? I just checked and all the prices I saw are less than $900 for a month.Thanks for checking, Nounce. Yeah, I poked around AirBnB too. I actually used AirBnB a few times in China, and I liked it. No ID is required. You just pay them and then you get the passcode to the keypad of their unit. However, in China, there's the concern of hidden video cameras. Believe it or not, the property owners believe that it's their right to spy on guests, to make sure nothing is getting stolen or damaged.

However, today, I struck a deal with the landlord. I asked if we could do this without a lease, and she uses her name on the utility bills and I reimburse her. I told her that I didn't want my name associated with the place at all. In exchange, I told her that I would always pay rent 3 months in advance. She was still uneasy about this arrangement, and then I offered to pay an additional $150 per month, and bang, she agreed. So, rent is now $1500 per month instead of $1350.

So, I now have one arrangement for $1200 per month, and it looks like I'll have another arrangement for $500 per month. When I include rent, the cost of maintaining two arrangements will be $3200 per month. Not great, not bad.

Pessimist
09-25-20, 13:40
Any of you guys keep an extra apartment to use as a love shack? I'm about to rent an apartment (I verbally agreed yesterday, but haven't signed anything yet).

It looks like (fingers crossed) that I'll be maintaining two arrangements actively. I did the math, and the rent on the apartment ($1400 per month) is going to cost significantly more than using a hotel (tough to estimate monthly hotel cost due to unknown number of meetups, but the cost is in the ballpark of $800 to $1600 per month but probably closer to $800 for most months).

I'm willing to pay the extra cost of having a love shack so that I don't have to deal with hotels all the time. Especially the constraints, such as checking in after 2 pm and then having to reappear the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out early, but if I always do this, then they'll probably think I'm doing something illicit. Plus, I hate dealing with the hassle of sneaking girls into hotels. And there's also the hassle of having to keep changing and using different hotels all the time. Finally, just want a place to chill.

Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.What is a minimum duration of a rental contract? 6 months? A year? The costs should not be compared not just on a monthly basis but for the duration of the contract. If you are traveling, or if Corona hits China again and can't meet, or having a tough and dry month for some reason. Whatever it may be. You are still on the hook for paying the rent. So, the economics make sense only if you have a steady stream of sugar babes to justify the rent and occupancy.

Wow, $1400 for a monthly rent sounds expensive in China, not any different than it is most major US cities. I guess it is because you are in Beijing? With China's per capita income being one eighth of what it is here, I would have thought rents would be much cheaper but it doesn't seem like it.

If you are meeting a girl (s) in this rental place for say 4 times a week, each for 2 or 3 hours, that is roughly 10 hours spent a week in this place. And you have to assume you will spend that much time with this girl week in week out. Essentially, you need this place for 1/15 of a week, I. E. 7% occupancy. I would consider going down the price if possible. It doesn't have to be Marriott quality rental place, Supermotel would do.

Steve 9696
09-25-20, 16:43
Here is a previously unpublished story from last summer. Early in my SA career. 4th girl in the series as I recall. I hope you find this entertaining. There are a few primary thoughts here:

1. SA can be amazing. This was a once in a lifetime experience I could not do without SA.

2. Some girls truly CAN fake affection like nobodies business. In the end this girl totally used me and I was out about $2500 and some heartache.

3. I wouldn't trade it for anything, despite how it turned out in the end.

Although this story ends very badly, its peak is amongst the highests highs I have ever experienced; followed by the most crushing defeat, as she stomped on my heart in spike heels. A good lesson for me about becoming too attached. And a good lesson for all of us that a pretty girl can take serious advantage of you. But it was all worth it. So let me take you through it as I experienced it -- not knowing it would have an untimely demise.

About 6 weeks prior to my trip to BA, I met this smoking hot girl on Seeking Arrangement. Her name is Valentina and she is of Peruvian descent but lives in Argentina (with her mom and dad -- she is only 20). We hit it off super fast because she speaks fluent English. Taught herself from age 17 till today. And so all the light banter and flirting totally works. She looks great in pictures, but waaaay better in person. And when she laughs? Wowza!

Anyhow we got to texting back and forth daily, during the weeks before my trip, and at some times I was spending pretty much my whole day "talking" with her. This is actually a really good thing with an SA girl for a few reasons -- one, hookers won't text with you for weeks on end; and two, by the time you meet you feel like old friends.

Without getting explicit, during our testing, she dropped some pretty good hints that sex was on the menu. And at some point I broached dollars loosely and she gave a figure that was very manageable. So we put that behind us and did not discuss again until the very last hour we were together.

So after just about cumming in anticipation, I finally met my girl. We agreed to meet at a waterfront restaurant on the pier in Buenos Aires in a place called Puerto Madera. I was a few minutes late and she was standing outside doing a video chat. Super pretty girl. She was wearing the torn jeans from one of her pictures that I had told her I liked. I also told her subtly that I liked her lips natural and she was paying attention, because she never wore the bright red stuff she often does, that I hate so much. Clever girl!

Lunch was as you might expect from a first date. We have a fun time, but clearly are just taking the first tentative steps in a relationship. This is soooooo different from hookers. I'd experienced it with Maria (one of my early SA dates in LA) and here it was all over again. I had to be myself but at the same time win her over. Fortunately she loves my sense of humor and I had her laughing most of the lunch.

At lunch we find how just compatible we are -- we both drink gin and tonics and we both start to order the same meal (I change so we have something different) Later we test this to see if one of us is faking it; but sure enough, every meal, we independently choose the same thing. It was kinda spooky actually.

After lunch, we decide to stroll the wharf. Again like a date. Just side by side and then suddenly hand in hand not even knowing who initiated. Super comfortable and getting better by the minute. We stop for another G&T and as we socially lubricate, it just gets better and better. Fortunately I don't get to the point of thinking "how do I suggest we go fuck?" because she initiates as we are strolling, with "Babe, I'm tired. Let's go back to the hotel. " Yeah. You bet! And we grab a cab.

Back in the room it's totally comfortable. We kiss deeply and passionately and roll around on the bed a bit fully clothed. The next bit is a bit escortish when she says "you want to shower first or me" but I roll with it and we both shower independently. As I am headed to the shower, she asks what music I want and I say whatever you like best babe -- let's do YOUR music. And she puts on stripper music -- I mean the really explicit stuff -- "going to hit that pussy *****" - that kinda thing. I laugh out loud and say my favorite. I mean who doesn't like fucking to that. She says it's American Hip Hop! And I tell her, "No, babe, it's stripper music," and it's her turn to laugh. She loves being naughty.

Back on the bed and back to the kissing. She LOVES to give head so we are pretty quickly on to that. She likes to jam it in and out, where it hits the back of her throat and she lets out a little cry each time, mixed with moans. It turns out this is a great source of sexual satisfaction for her, as I learn later.

In tune with her explicit stripper music, she'd told me via text a couple weeks back that she was going to twerk for me. Kinda kidding around. Well no lie. After some spectacular head, she still has on her lacy bra and stripper thong and she positions herself with her head facing the foot of the bed and doggie-style ass my direction and totally brings it. Ass pumping twerking queen! Very, very sexy. Makes me want to fuck her bad. So I do.

But first, I go down on her instead. Get her pretty sloppy and she has this way of clamping her fists closed when she hits mini Os that is very cute (I learn later that she can only truly get off by fucking or having dick in her mouth. This is unusual but just how she is wired.) And I'm not complaining.

Then there is a lot more blowjob. She loves this, no lie. And thanks to my prior 5 cuties that week in Sao Paulo, I have stamina to spare. So we fuck in Mish for a long time. With plenty of kissing even though she is short. The fit is great and I think I am going to cum several times. But no. So off comes the condom, for a strong CIM finish. Of course, swallow with a smile. Ah, my new favorite girlfriend.

She has to go to her Mom's birthday at 730 -- it's about 530 by now. So we take a spectacular nap. You can tell she is totally spent because she falls asleep naked on her face. Her ass is just about perfect. Maybe not Fortune perfect (Diva girl, best ass in the world bar none) but top 5. I could barely bear to look at her, she was so beautiful sleeping.

Eventually we wake from our slumber and off she goes. Ever the gentleman, I walk her to her Uber a few blocks away (in BA Uber has pickup points — not door to door). As we part, we make plans to meet up the next morning. But that's in Part 2 stayed tuned as one of the most epic nights of my life is coming up!

CindyGaf
09-25-20, 22:45
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Midwestern
09-26-20, 03:01
Here is a previously unpublished story from last summer. Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.


What is a minimum duration of a rental contract? 6 months? A year? The costs should not be compared not just on a monthly basis but for the duration of the contract. If you are traveling, or if Corona hits China again and can't meet, or having a tough and dry month for some reason. Whatever it may be. You are still on the hook for paying the rent. So, the economics make sense only if you have a steady stream of sugar babes to justify the rent and occupancy.

Wow, $1400 for a monthly rent sounds expensive in China, not any different than it is most major US cities. I guess it is because you are in Beijing? With China's per capita income being one eighth of what it is here, I would have thought rents would be much cheaper but it doesn't seem like it.

If you are meeting a girl (s) in this rental place for say 4 times a week, each for 2 or 3 hours, that is roughly 10 hours spent a week in this place. And you have to assume you will spend that much time with this girl week in week out. Essentially, you need this place for 1/15 of a week, I. E. 7% occupancy. I would consider going down the price if possible. It doesn't have to be Marriott quality rental place, Supermotel would do.Pessimist, I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions. I found this place through informal channels, which is common in China because real estate agents get way too huge a cut, something like double typical commissions that you'd find in the USA. Using the informal channels doesn't benefit the renter (me) that much because the home owner is supposed to pay the agent cost. Therefore, when a home owner can find a renter on their own, they are usually very keen on trying to seal the deal so they can avoid paying an agent.

So, here is what I was able to negotiate.

(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.

(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.

(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her.

Originally, I only pitched (1) and (2), and after some negotiation, we agreed on $1285 per month (I previously stated $1400, but my exchange rate calculation was off). Her listing price was $1570 per month, and so I was able to get her to come down quite a bit. She actually showed me her lease agreement with her current tenant and it showed a rent of $1430 per month, and given that the rental market took a bit of hit this year, I felt she should be charging me a lower rent, not a higher rent. I think one reason she finally agreed to the $1285 is because I'm a foreigner. This may be a generalization, but in China, I feel like home owners prefer renting to foreigners because we are easy. We rarely complain and we rarely ask for anything and we rarely destroy property. The other thing is that I told her that it would only be me. No kids or pets.

Then, I remembered that I had to sign up for utilities, and so I asked her to do that for me and that I'd just reimburse her. To my surprise, this put her off. She said that she's never done this for any tenant before, and she's too busy to do stuff like this. However, I simply didn't want my name on anything. So, I pressed the issue. I said I just needed heat and electricity, I did not need cable, phone, or internet. Then she said she should charge me what her current tenant pays in rent. And I said it's a done deal if you include internet too. She said deal. So, I'm paying $1430 per month. Yeah, I admit that I went up too high by adding $145 per month, but I felt like having an opportunity to have a place to myself while INCOGNITO was too good a thing to lose in the final moments of our negotiations.

And yes, rent in Shanghai and Beijing is VERY high. For example, a decent 3 bedroom apartment that is just outside the main downtown area is around $4000 per month. My new place is a 1 bedroom unit, outside the main downtown area, and the unit is pretty nice. I might actually work there sometimes.

And yes, the occupancy rate will be very low, even if I go there and just work sometimes. So, we will see if I feel it's worth it. With my current arrangement, it's just stressful having to find different hotels all the time, and arguing about who books the room all the time. We don't want to become regulars at any hotel, and she doesn't want so many hotel bookings on her "official" record, and every time I book a hotel the police is automatically notified per China policy. And then there's the hassle of having to register guests. Also, hotels give me a VERY tight window, because I cannot check in until after 2 pm and I have to be home for dinner usually by about 5 pm or 6 pm, and then I have to go to the hotel the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out after a few hours, but that would only raise eyebrows. Sure, there are ST hotels, but technically it's illegal for foreigners to use them based on recent regulations, and besides, foreigners in ST hotels also often raises eyebrows and suspicions, especially when the foreigner is a middle-aged American and his "girlfriend" is Chinese who is half his age.

But all in all, this love shack is going to cost me a lot. I would not have done it if it wasn't for the fact that I am likely to have another arrangement. Plus, I'm also thinking about the many outcall pros that I can also bring back to the love shack. If I were only going to use the love shack for one arrangement, there's no way I'd do it.

Another option is that I let my GF find a cheap place of her own and I pay her rent. (She currently shares a place with someone, which is common in Shanghai given the high rent.) But fuck that. I'd be locked into a one year commitment. And I'll also go crazy wondering if she's fucking other guys at her place. And, I wouldn't be able to use the place for my other arrangement and for outcall pros.

Akibono
09-26-20, 03:37
Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.


So, here is what I was able to negotiate.

(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.

(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.

(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her..Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.

Midwestern
09-26-20, 04:30
Just an interesting tidbit. The new landlord of my love shack is super hot. About 5 foot 6, and thin athletic body. Single divorced mom. Probably late 30's. And she's probably at least twice as rich as me, based on what she divulged regarding the other units that she owns (in China, you can only buy your first property with 30% down payment, for the next property that you buy, the minimum down payment amount is something like 50%, and for the third unit, it's like 70%, etc. , and this is to prevent a real estate bubble. She said my apartment is the smallest place that she owns.).

A few nights ago, after I saw her place for the first time, we were texting quite a lot. It started with texting about specific details about the unit, and negotiating about rent and stuff like that. But then it somehow turned personal. She actually told me she wants to have another kid and is looking for Mr. Right. And then she said we should do lunch sometime. I'm like, WTF just happened? The next day, she started being formal again and only texting about the unit.

Midwestern
09-26-20, 04:37
Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.Our freedoms are disappearing all the time. China is now installing facial recognition cameras everywhere. The government says that if citizens have nothing to hide, then we shouldn't give a shit about losing our privacy and civil liberties. I obviously have issues with this.

But if there were any pushback from Chinese citizens, it disappeared this year after the government took away all of our privacy due to the coronavirus, and it actually worked. China is now normal again, and the virus is now not even a bad memory but almost a forgotten memory. Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.

But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.

Akibono
09-26-20, 08:23
Our freedoms are disappearing all the time. China is now installing facial recognition cameras everywhere. The government says that if citizens have nothing to hide, then we shouldn't give a shit about losing our privacy and civil liberties. I obviously have issues with this.

But if there were any pushback from Chinese citizens, it disappeared this year after the government took away all of our privacy due to the coronavirus, and it actually worked. China is now normal again, and the virus is now not even a bad memory but almost a forgotten memory. Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.

But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.Given the disasterous response in the USA and EU, I can understand that China may be viewed as a success. But the wheel turns. If an effective vaccine is developed, covid will swiftly fade away, but not completely. You can create an efficient society by treating people like widgets to be optimized in every way. We talk about the chilling influence of censorship, but that is nothing compared to China where you can be snatched off the street and jailed for bad thoughts. The system is designed for spectacular success and failure. It is not designed for stability which is why the government thinks it needs so much control. Frankly, I am surprised that they do not fear their foreign students being corrupted.

There seems to be a lot of angry people on SA. I am often surprised by the rudeness. I wonder if it is harder for women than us guys. They probably get hit on by a bunch of assholes, but what do they expect from such a site. Just like the 9's and 10's do not have to be on the site, the Mr. Gray's are not there either. I am beginning to see the categories of people. Most are not worth my time. I think the US is a poor hunting ground. People's expectations are entirely unrealistic. Still hunting for the elusive diamond.

Akibono
09-26-20, 08:34
Just an interesting tidbit. The new landlord of my love shack is super hot. About 5 foot 6, and thin athletic body. Single divorced mom. Probably late 30's. And she's probably at least twice as rich as me, based on what she divulged regarding the other units that she owns (in China, you can only buy your first property with 30% down payment, for the next property that you buy, the minimum down payment amount is something like 50%, and for the third unit, it's like 70%, etc. , and this is to prevent a real estate bubble. She said my apartment is the smallest place that she owns.).

A few nights ago, after I saw her place for the first time, we were texting quite a lot. It started with texting about specific details about the unit, and negotiating about rent and stuff like that. But then it somehow turned personal. She actually told me she wants to have another kid and is looking for Mr. Right. And then she said we should do lunch sometime. I'm like, WTF just happened? The next day, she started being formal again and only texting about the unit.She sounds like a dragon lady. Business sharp and very manipulative. She probably has sized you up already. China has a large underground market. Speculators borrow under the table to meet the down payment requirements. Would not be surprised that her money comes from people who got it through corruption. Thus, they recycle (launder) the money through people like your landlord. Both benefits. You have to ask yourself how a women would have access to such funds. Probably got it by her ex. Lover (divorce is rare and she would not get his property). Unless it is family wealth, you do not earn such money. Any speculator has earned large sums in the last 10 years. You are correct. At some time, the music stops. Thanks for your insight. It is hard to understand the situation by reading the papers.

Steve 9696
09-26-20, 15:08
Do any of you stay in touch with ex Babies? I generally try to keep in touch with girls, tho sometimes it fades. I just sent Thifany happy birthday wishes (two days late) and asked her if it was good. She said yes, but not as much fun as when I was in London with you! Ah, surely it's not as fond a memory for her as it was for me but still nice to hear (she turned 23 in London on our second night together two years ago).

And two of my Vegas girls I am still in touch with, one you would count even as a friend. Both have said they'the like to see me and Alexa even said she'the fly in from Vegas. My London fave remains in touch but I can feel some fade there. I mean we only had the five hours together.

I really develop a fondness for these girls even if we only spent a few hours together. Other than Valentina I really do wish them well and hope for the best for them. What about you? Stay in touch with your exes?

Pessimist
09-26-20, 16:29
I do not keep contacting ex-girls, if that is what "stay in touch" implies. Of course, I did not throw away their contact details and still have the means to contact them in future (assuming they did not change their phone# - but many of them do). The thing is that even a simple action such as sending Hi will suggest you want to see them again, will want to revive an arrangement. If you simply send Hi and a few back and forth messages and then there is no follow up on your part to see them again (and most importantly from their pov, to give them some compensation for their time), they will be pis$ed and rightfully so. The reality is that these were not your girlfriends. It was a monetary transaction, if you strip away all the niceties. If they wanted to be in a relationship with you, to be your girlfriends, they would have told you so and given free sessions. Making contact randomly and with no follow up on the money part is a waste of time from their pov. Remember too, some of them may have moved on and be in a genuine relationship by now and if your message is seen by her current BF by accident, could be a serious problem for her. She was ready for arrangement at the time she did have an arrangement in the past. Until you know for sure that she is again ready to receive text messages that hint at anything about her past, in my view, it is inappropriate to send messages.

In these tough times, it is OK to contact a girl if you want to send a quick gift to help out. If that is what you want to do. I bet that will be appreciated by the girl. But simply pining the girl and reminiscing about good times of the past will do nothing. To you, the sex was the good memory, to her the money received was the good memory.

I have contacted girls after a year or longer, after the arrangement cooled off for a while. That is because I most definitely wanted to see her one more time, and assess her situation. But these have to be done very carefully because I do not want to get her into trouble. So, if I am contacting a girl after a year of dormancy, the first text is always very innocuous "Hi, how have you been, hope all is well with you". Will take a few back and forth messages and to get a measure of her tone before I come out with my intent. If the girl has no interest, she will blow me off and not even reply. Of course these are much easier to do if the girl is still active on SA and the messages happen on the SA site; then I know she is still in the market.

Finally, I keep my emotions strictly separated from my amoral activities. I am married and seek only sexual gratification in these encounters, be it on SA or visits to FKKs or other sites in US or strip club visits in the past. Developing any sort of emotional ties with these girls only leads to disasters. Strictly verboten in my view, unless you really are hoping to convert a specific SB arrangement into a GF relationship.

DiverOyster
09-26-20, 22:05
Last Saturday I met up with my slash part time model in MTY. We go have a great dinner and drinks at my favorite Steak House. We Get home all that plus anal. We wake up and have sex again. Finally we get up take showers off to the SPA, great experience. Get home I had bought some toys. We break them out. She sticks one in her ass and we go at it for 1 hour Sunday afternoon. All for $200 to her. Spa $150 and Dinner was $150, but trust me we got our money worth at the restaurant.That's amazing how you can get your sb for so cheap. I am planning my first trip (4 day weekend trip) in mid October to MTY. I contacted a few chics on SA's Monterrey. Two responded. I followed your price guideline and offered one chic 200 usd for 24 hours and she laughed me off. Another chic asked for 500 usd for 24 hours. I countered with 200 usd for 24 hours and she laughed me off.

So I am starting to think that 500 usd for 24 hours is the market rate for a slim and decent looking 20's sb in Monterrey. This price is still a bargain in comparison with the price in a major US city. This price is still cheaper than Regioscorsts.

Midwestern
09-27-20, 02:07
There seems to be a lot of angry people on SA. I am often surprised by the rudeness. I wonder if it is harder for women than us guys. They probably get hit on by a bunch of assholes, but what do they expect from such a site. When I was in the states, I asked some of my SBs about the other SDs on SA. And yep, they said that most SDs are assholes. Because SDs are the "buyers", they feel like they are entitled to be assholes. A few pages back, I mentioned that to have successful arrangements from SA, you just need to be nice, pay the market price, and sometimes even be fun. That's all. This puts us into a small minority among SDs.

For me, if anyone is rude to me on SA, I just brush it off and move on. As it has been mentioned on many occasions on here, finding the arrangement that you want, and with who you want, takes a LOT of time on SA. It's almost like a part time job.


She sounds like a dragon lady. Business sharp and very manipulative. She probably has sized you up already. China has a large underground market. Speculators borrow under the table to meet the down payment requirements. Would not be surprised that her money comes from people who got it through corruption. Thus, they recycle (launder) the money through people like your landlord. Both benefits. You have to ask yourself how a women would have access to such funds. Probably got it by her ex. Lover (divorce is rare and she would not get his property). Unless it is family wealth, you do not earn such money. She said she's a see-level exec of a small firm in which she's also a large shareholder. I kind of believe her, only because her English is pretty decent. I know this is a stupid reason to believe someone, but given that she can speak decent English suggests that she's decently educated. But the key is to not fuck this up by trying to hook up with her. If I tried to bed her and I end up failing or succeeding, then what happens to my apartment that I'm going to rent from her? I'm no longer going to allow our chats to meander into any kind of personal space. We texted a bunch of times yesterday about my moving in date, such as discussing what I need in terms of furnishings, about payment schedule, etc. , and at one point she said she's happy to have a handsome tenant and my response to her was, "thanks, please make sure the unit is thoroughly clean before I move in, especially the kitchen and bathroom, and make sure there is no trash that I need to take out. " She replied, "OK" and that was that.


Do any of you stay in touch with ex Babies?
I am still in touch with one. The main reasons why I stay in touch with her is because (1) she is very smart and (2) we eventually became pretty good friends when we were in our arrangement. There were times we would just meet for a beer after work. She graduated from an Ivy and she teased me because I graduated from a public university. But she majored in something stupid (I think it was astronomy), which is why she eventually ended up on SA. The last time I saw her, we watched one of the Presidential debates between Trump and Hilary, and then we fucked, and then the next day she moved from SF to NY. So, we've been in touch for 4 years via texting. Our text chats are actual conversations. We rarely discuss SA and our previous arrangement. We just talk about current events and our current lives. I even asked her for some advice on a couple of occasions, and I recently asked her for some advice regarding my current arrangement.

But I think staying in touch with ex SBs is just like staying in touch with ex GFs. It can sometimes happen, but it's rare.

Nounce
09-27-20, 02:23
Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.

But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.I think it is a view shared by many who have visited China.

GeneHickman
09-27-20, 03:01
I think it is a view shared by many who have visited China.Indeed, just as long as you can return to the good ole USA at a moments notice! 😂.

Pessimist
09-27-20, 03:56
When I was in the states, I asked some of my SBs about the other SDs on SA. And yep, they said that most SDs are assholes. Because SDs are the "buyers", they feel like they are entitled to be assholes. A few pages back, I mentioned that to have successful arrangements from SA, you just need to be nice, pay the market price, and sometimes even be fun. That's all. This puts us into a small minority among SDs.

For me, if anyone is rude to me on SA, I just brush it off and move on. As it has been mentioned on many occasions on here, finding the arrangement that you want, and with who you want, takes a LOT of time on SA. It's almost like a part time job..I have no doubt that many SDs are not so nice. Some of them may also be quite nice. Some SDs are posting here and they don't appear to be assholes, and I don't think they are the exceptions. I think being SDs, we have an asymmetric disadvantage in terms of knowledge about other SDs. We know a lot of SBs but hardly any other SDs (unless you have a friend who is also another SD). In fact, SBs may know other SBs but SDs hardly know many SDs. I say this because quite a few young women even seem to know about SA and other SB sites from their friends and get encouraged to join it from their friends. On the other hand, many SDs are older, married, in respectable jobs and will never admit to any of their peers that they are doing this. They keep this part of their life quiet and hidden.

Anyway, we don't know how other SDs behave. And the girls have an incentive to lie. By playing up how nice you are and how other guys are assholes, they try to boost your ego. That is one more way to entice.

Not saying they always lie, but they have an incentive.

And BTW, there are tons of scammer girls on SA. My own success ratio is in single digits at best. (If any one claims their hit ratio is 50% or 70%, they are lying or they must be looking like Ryan Gosling with the money of Jeff Bezos. Or perhaps they relax their spec on age / body type / ethnicity / looks etc). If I hit up 100 girls, I may eventually get to fuck a few. But that is not the worst of it. For every girl that I had sex with, there were at least twice as many or perhaps 4 times as many that tried to swindle money with some sob story, or asking me to send a $100 gift "to prove I am real" or some other garbage like that.

My point? Guys may be assholes, girls may be swindlers. This is par for the course on SA.

Elvis 2008
09-27-20, 04:56
I really develop a fondness for these girls even if we only spent a few hours together. Other than Valentina I really do wish them well and hope for the best for them. What about you? Stay in touch with your exes?LOL. Yes, I often will get back with them, see how hot they are, have great sex with them, and then ask why I broke up with them. Then right after, I remember why broke up with them and do it again.

Akibono
09-27-20, 06:57
She said she's a see-level exec of a small firm in which she's also a large shareholder. I kind of believe her, only because her English is pretty decent. I know this is a stupid reason to believe someone, but given that she can speak decent English suggests that she's decently educated. But the key is to not fuck this up by trying to hook up with her. If I tried to bed her and I end up failing or succeeding, then what happens to my apartment that I'm going to rent from her? I'm no longer going to allow our chats to meander into any kind of personal space. We texted a bunch of times yesterday about my moving in date, such as discussing what I need in terms of furnishings, about payment schedule, etc. , and at one point she said she's happy to have a handsome tenant and my response to her was, "thanks, please make sure the unit is thoroughly clean before I move in, especially the kitchen and bathroom, and make sure there is no trash that I need to take out. " She replied, "OK" and that was that..Smart move. The key to life is making good decisions and understanding all the things that can go wrong. I never create situations with too many moving parts. You can never keep track of everything and eventually you make a mistake. That is the problem with chronic liars. Having the stronger hand is an advantage and bedding her would be a weak hand. If she really wanted you, she will chase and then you can carefully dictate the terms. Being able to walk away is always a good thing. How do you feel about being a gigolo? Does anyone still use that term?

Midwestern
09-27-20, 23:37
I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros.

I also cannot tell her that this is my friend's apartment and he's letting me borrow it, because I don't feel like spending money to make it look like someone else lives there. For example, I'd have to buy clothes, shoes, luggage, laptop, sports equipment, office supplies, food, toiletries, etc. Lived-in apartments have a lot of crap in it. This apartment will have almost nothing in it.

On a related note, I cannot say that it's my friend's apartment but it's not rented yet and so he's letting me use it. Apartments do not go un-rented for long in Shanghai, so this is simply an implausible lie.

Please advise. TIA.

NightLife17
09-28-20, 00:00
I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Please advise. TIA.I used to work for a company that had rented / owned (not sure) a few apartments near the office; they could be borrowed by employees who lived far away and didn't want to go home that night.

Although I never used those apartments myself, it wouldn't be a far stretch to say that, it's against company policy, to let others permanently live in the apartment. You don't want the security guard to rat you out to your company, that you have a GF. Living there permanently. Also since not that many people are currently using this company benefit, you are often able to borrow the key from HR. I'm sure you could spin something like that.

Good luck.

DramaFree11
09-28-20, 00:10
I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros..This is the issue with renting long term. Sooner or later something will go wrong, especially if you are doing multiple girls. I wish I had an answer.

Rextor
09-28-20, 00:37
I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros..Can't help but think you're wayyyyy overthinking all of this. Why not just have them at your place? If not, why not just have them at the new apartment. If they ask to move in say hell no?

Akibono
09-28-20, 01:23
I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros.Say it belongs to your business / employer and you have access when clients are not using it.

Midwestern
09-28-20, 01:52
I used to work for a company that had rented / owned (not sure) a few apartments near the office; they could be borrowed by employees who lived far away and didn't want to go home that night.

Although I never used those apartments myself, it wouldn't be a far stretch to say that, it's against company policy, to let others permanently live in the apartment. You don't want the security guard to rat you out to your company, that you have a GF. Living there permanently. Also since not that many people are currently using this company benefit, you are often able to borrow the key from HR. I'm sure you could spin something like that.

Good luck.I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.


This is the issue with renting long term. Sooner or later something will go wrong, especially if you are doing multiple girls. I wish I had an answer.Yeah, I'm actually stressed out about this. I only know one other person that did this, and eventually he got caught.


Can't help but think you're wayyyyy overthinking all of this. Why not just have them at your place? If not, why not just have them at the new apartment. If they ask to move in say hell no?Can't have them over at my place. I'm renting the new apartment exactly for this reason. And my current arrangement has become my GF. I don't want a GF, but I am tolerating it because she is hilarious and fun to be with, and plus she is smoking hot. If I tell her "hell no" then she's gone. Eventually, it will end, of course, but I'm hoping it will last as long as possible.


Say it belongs to your business / employer and you have access when clients are not using it.I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.

DramaFree11
09-28-20, 02:10
I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.

Yeah, I'm actually stressed out about this. I only know one other person that did this, and eventually he got caught.

Can't have them over at my place. I'm renting the new apartment exactly for this reason. And my current arrangement has become my GF. I don't want a GF, but I am tolerating it because she is hilarious and fun to be with, and plus she is smoking hot. If I tell her "hell no" then she's gone. Eventually, it will end, of course, but I'm hoping it will last as long as possible.

I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.I am more worried about the security guards saying something they should to one of my girls. Also, it just takes one neighbor to complain then you are totally screwed.

Nounce
09-28-20, 02:43
I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.
I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.

Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status or I will choose not to answer questions. There is really no damage in telling her the truth.

I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.

DramaFree11
09-28-20, 03:02
I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.

Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status. There is really no damage in telling her the truth. Like the case about your marital status, I actually would stick to the original story and that is obviously understandable if she finds the truth later.

I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.Great advice, this is the whole idea about SA, there is no need to lie or you can just say you do not want to talk about this at the moment. If you relationship gets more serious then obviously then you will need to be more open and honest.

Midwestern
09-28-20, 03:38
I am more worried about the security guards saying something they should to one of my girls. Also, it just takes one neighbor to complain then you are totally screwed.Yeah, I agree. I am thinking about just using it to meet my two SBs, and don't bring any outcall pros into the apartment. My second SB is older and doesn't look like a pro. My first SB is almost half my age, but I could pass her off as my GF.


I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.

Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status or I will choose not to answer questions. There is really no damage in telling her the truth.

I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.I already confessed to her that I'm married. Extramarital affairs are illegal in China. Both of my SBs know I'm married. The second SB is married too. So yeah, I'm living in fear. But what can I do if fucking is a necessary part of my life? Sure, I can fuck in an MP, but that's even scarier, and sure, I can meet incall pros, but I'm looking for arrangements with GFs. And always using hotels is stressing me out for a variety of reasons. What would you do if you were in my situation? Any advice is appreciated.

Rextor
09-28-20, 04:05
So since more folks are joining this thread and much of the good primer information is way back in Jan / Feb I thought I'the write a little intro to Seeking. Hope you enjoy and it helps others on their journey. Please note that this is for guys that enjoy the whole romance and simulated girlfriend thing. If you just want to find a girl to fuck there are plenty of those also.

Seeking Arrangement opened a whole new world for me -- Sugar Baby. Sugar Daddy dating. I had gotten a taste of this with Thifany (the girl from the So Paulo Boate that I flew to London for a week). I mean SBSD is really what we were doing when I flew her to London. I paid her a very reasonable allowance for the week and we just played boyfriend and girlfriend. What fun.

I came to realize through the Thifany experience that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.

So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit...Hey Steve,

Great to hear tips from an OG. Have you tried SA overseas? I tried in CDMX and while It worked out overall I found myself spending tons of time contacting SBs. I'm interested in your approach of really talking at length with these women. Its sounds crass, I know, but in Mexico I was at the point where within 4 exchanges of dialogue I was asking for their WhatsApp to discuss detail $, because the effort it took to engage with these girls was so excessive. And you're suggesting expending even more effort? Wondering about pros and cons.

Also I don't know if my young age (30) and non-white skin put me out of the typical middle aged Gringo type (no offense to anyone) that some of these girls go far so they think I'm scamming / not serious.

Nounce
09-28-20, 04:37
I already confessed to her that I'm married. Extramarital affairs are illegal in China. Both of my SBs know I'm married. The second SB is married too.She is already a partner in crime so you don't have to worry about her. Why lie about the little stuff like who rents the apartment that can be easily proven false? It just creates other problems down the road.

Edit: I think you do need to come up with something so the SBs can't stay when you don't want them around.

Midwestern
09-28-20, 09:01
She is already a partner in crime so you don't have to worry about her. Why lie about the little stuff like who rents the apartment that can be easily proven false? It just creates other problems down the road.

Edit: I think you do need to come up with something so the SBs can't stay when you don't want them around.Yep, this is why I'm going to lie to her about my renting the apartment. If she knows I'm renting it, then she'll want to move into it, and I don't want to deal with that hassle. I know this will unravel, but my main goal it to have it unravel later than sooner. Thanks, man.

Midwestern
09-28-20, 10:52
Man, this post is going to be fucking long. Sorry.

There was a legit MP that I used to go to regularly. I've been going to it for about 6 years. Most of the masseuses at this shop look like Shrek. But man, they can give a killer massage. For the entire hour, I would either clench my teeth in pain or scream in pain, but I would feel like a million bucks afterwards. A couple of years ago, I was massaged by a skinny MILF at this place. It was just an okay massage, but I kind of liked her, so I started requesting her every time I went to this place. Then this happened:

Last September, when I arrived for my massage, I gave her a hug Hello,. To my surprise, she gave me a warm hug back, like she pressed her entire body against mine. I took that as a cue, and suddenly decided to make a pass at her, but she resisted, but I was a bit aggressive and eventually we started making out. So, for the entire hour, we just made out.

Later that night, I texted her that I liked her. She texted back that she liked me too. Then I texted, "what should we do?" And she texted back, "meet at hotel?" Wow! Why did it take me almost two fucking years to hit on her?! Anyway, luckily for me, at that time, I was friends with a pro that lived nearby. So, I asked her if I could use her apartment to fuck my new GF, the skinny MILF. This request put her off. I was a little surprised. I actually went to her place regularly, usually after the gym, to take a shower and grab a bite to eat and sometimes I would fuck her. She let me fuck her for free, because I used to be a loyal customer of hers when we knew each other in Beijing, and I helped her settle into Shanghai. But my request to use her apartment to fuck someone else put her off. But eventually, I agreed to pay her $45 each time I used her apartment, and she begrudgingly agreed. So, I started fucking the skinny MILF at my friend's apartment about twice per week, usually before her shift started, or on her days off.

But then, suddenly out of the blue, her husband moved to Shanghai. So, we had to meet during her shifts. Masseuses can do house calls. So, when we met, I had to pay for a "massage. " But that was only about $25.

With the skinny MILF, every fuck session went like this. She comes over, I tell her to take off her clothes and she does, and then she lays on the bed. I take off my clothes and then we make out, doing super heavy DFK. And then I would do some DATY and then I would stick my dick into her pussy and we would make out, super heavy DFK, for the next hour and a half, multiple positions. I always tried to take a break and chat, but she had no interest in chatting. Sometimes, when I said I needed a rest, she would climb onto me and start riding me. I sometimes tried to make small talk during our sessions, but she would just nod or grunt, and just kept fucking me. And I never have an orgasm during our sessions. This is the way that I like to fuck. I just want to fuck forever and never stop. I can pull this off because I'm circumcised, and my palms are rough from working out, and so from my many, many years of masturbating myself with my rough hands, my dick skin has almost no sensitivity. Sometimes, when I think my dick is starting to feel sensitive again, I would start whacking off regularly to toughen the skin again, and sometimes, I would drink a half can of beer to numb my dick while fucking. But I digress.

When you guys are fucking someone, do you ever have that fear that you don't know when you're going to fuck again, and so you just want to never stop fucking that person that you're with? Well, that's how she was, when she was fucking me. It was as if she was scared she'd never get laid again, and so she was trying to get laid as much as possible at that moment. But I digress again.

Anyway, from early September to early January of this year, we probably met about 20 times. Skinny MILF never asked for a dime for herself. There was one time when I gave her $150, because she mentioned that something of hers broke and she needed to replace it. I thought that was a clue to give her money, and so I did, but when she saw the money she was put off. But I insisted that she take it anyway.

Anyway, in early January, she went home for Chinese New Year.

And then, the fucking coronavirus outbreak happened. The entire country went into a super hard fucking lock-down.

In late April, when China was starting to let people travel domestically again, she came to Shanghai to collect her belongings and to take care of some things. She was only here for two days. She said that she was moving back home, because her college aged daughter was also moving back home due to colleges being shut down. I met her, but we didn't even hug or hold hands or kiss, because both of us, along with the rest of the entire country, were still living in fucking fear of the fucking virus. I was not only wearing a mask, but also a hat and swim goggles and gloves, but many people were doing this at that time, so I didn't even stand out. But I wanted to meet her so that I could give her some money. I don't remember exactly what I gave her, but it was either $300 or $450. She sincerely appreciated it.

The months go by, I ask her if she's ever coming back to Shanghai, and she keeps telling me that she's not sure.

Her daughter finally graduated from college in June or July, taking her last set of courses using Zoom, while living with her mom (skinny MILF) and dad, who was also out of a job.

Then, in August, skinny MILF told me that her entire family was going to move to Shanghai and they were all going to live together. But skinny MILF told me that she'd find a home and a job near to me.

Then, in mid-September, skinny MILF said that her husband couldn't find a job in Shanghai, and instead he found a job in Huaqiao, in Jiangsu Province, which is over an hour away from Shanghai. But skinny MILF swore to me, that after they moved to Huaqiao, that she would drive to see me at least once per week.

During these text message exchanges, she mentioned how destitute their family was. She and her husband hadn't worked since January. I don't know what her husband does, but skinny MILF told me that she makes more money than him, and she makes about $2000 per month. She said that they might not be able to afford the rent in Huaqiao, on top of their mortgage payment at home. I asked her what her Huaqiao rent was, and she said it was $1,500 for three months.

They moved to Huaqiao on Friday. Skinny MILF told me that she'd come to Shanghai to see me on Monday (today). I told her to book a hotel and I would reimburse her. We met at her hotel room at 1:20 pm. It was the first time I had seen her since April, and second time since January. She was skinny before, but now she looked anorexic and she looked like she aged quite a bit. We hugged, and then we showered, and then we fell back into our usual fuck routine. Again, I tried to rest and chat with her, but she didn't want to talk and she barely said anything and she kept wanting to fuck and DFK nonstop. Finally, a little after 3 pm, I told her that I had to go to work. Because, quite frankly, I was exhausted. Every time I wanted to rest and catch up with her, she'd just climb back onto me and start fucking me.

So, I finally got up and showered and put on my clothes. I then told her to come see me at least once per week. She agreed. And then I gave her $1,500. For her Huaqiao rent. I could tell she felt a bit ashamed, but I told her that I loved her and that I would help her. I told her that I would give her another $1,500 in December. She nodded. And then I left.

So now, my former affair has been converted to an arrangement. $500 per month.

As a side note, it was because of skinny MILF that I came to realize that migrant workers were good potential candidates for hookups. I have since hooked up with a few other migrant workers, such as a office receptionist, and an employee at a coffee shop.

The end.

Steve 9696
09-28-20, 13:16
Thanks MW for the long read! Really enjoyed that with my morning coffee! I both love having slices of life and reading about others. Quite the story!

P.S. I am working the long game with a local hottie. She's not down to SB yet but I've cracked the ice shield a bit with an epic dinner and drinks last night. Just the pursuit and seduction is fun. We shall see.

PPS Text game is everything. I am still amazed I got her out on a date. No way I coulda landed that a year ago.

Akibono
09-30-20, 01:24
Man, this post is going to be fucking long. Sorry.


Then, in mid-September, skinny MILF said that her husband couldn't find a job in Shanghai, and instead he found a job in Huaqiao, in Jiangsu Province, which is over an hour away from Shanghai. But skinny MILF swore to me, that after they moved to Huaqiao, that she would drive to see me at least once per week.

During these text message exchanges, she mentioned how destitute their family was. She and her husband hadn't worked since January. I don't know what her husband does, but skinny MILF told me that she makes more money than him, and she makes about $2000 per month. She said that they might not be able to afford the rent in Huaqiao, on top of their mortgage payment at home. I asked her what her Huaqiao rent was, and she said it was $1,500 for three months.

They moved to Huaqiao on Friday. Skinny MILF told me that she'd come to Shanghai to see me on Monday (today). I told her to book a hotel and I would reimburse her. We met at her hotel room at 1:20 pm. It was the first time I had seen her since April, and second time since January. She was skinny before, but now she looked anorexic and she looked like she aged quite a bit. We hugged, and then we showered, and then we fell back into our usual fuck routine. Again, I tried to rest and chat with her, but she didn't want to talk and she barely said anything and she kept wanting to fuck and DFK nonstop. Finally, a little after 3 pm, I told her that I had to go to work. Because, quite frankly, I was exhausted. Every time I wanted to rest and catch up with her, she'd just climb back onto me and start fucking me..It's funny how we pay to fuck a 40 MILF when most people will dismiss it. But passion and authenticity is rare. What the girls do not realize is we pay when they are exceptional because we want it to continue. Too many girls ask too much and provide too little. They get paid once and it ends. Better to ask for less and provide more. If a gal is better than the competition, they will be busy and know to charge more. I have been to Fkks in the past when there were more exceptional girls. These gals would be booked solid and never available. They could name their price because guys knew they would not have a shot if they did not pay more. Most made lots of money and got expensive gifts before they quit. There were guy that would give then iPhones so they could book an appointment. Don't see that type now.

Midwestern
10-01-20, 01:29
It's funny how we pay to fuck a 40 MILF when most people will dismiss it. But passion and authenticity is rare. What the girls do not realize is we pay when they are exceptional because we want it to continue. Too many girls ask too much and provide too little. They get paid once and it ends. Better to ask for less and provide more. If a gal is better than the competition, they will be busy and know to charge more. I have been to Fkks in the past when there were more exceptional girls. These gals would be booked solid and never available. They could name their price because guys knew they would not have a shot if they did not pay more. Most made lots of money and got expensive gifts before they quit. There were guy that would give then iPhones so they could book an appointment. Don't see that type now.Even though she's mid-40's, sex with her is great because she genuinely likes me, and she loves fucking and DFKing. If she hadn't been out of a job for the past 9 months, I probably wouldn't be paying her. The only reason why I'm paying her now is because I feel sorry for her, but also because she now has to drive over an hour to see me, so I want to enhance her incentive to keep seeing me. My big goal right now is to anal her. That would be epic because she's never done it before, and so it would be cool if I could do it while her husband never has. Man, I'm getting a boner just thinking about it right now.

Your point about the girls asking for less and providing more is pretty much spot on. You cited FKKs as an example. I can provide a similar example with 141 girls in HK. The ones that get great reviews and provide great service have customers all day long. I remember waiting in line to see one girl. When I was next in line, I remember the guy in front of me coming out of the door with a dazed look of happiness on his face. But when it was my turn, it was maybe one of the best 40 minutes I have ever spent with a 141 girl. Amazing GFE and service. I tried so many times to see her again, but the line outside here door was always a few guys deep, even in the middle of the day. In fact, with a lot of the 141 girls, after I had a great experience with any one of them, I was never able to see them again because they were always busy with clients. I don't think they ever raised their prices though. So, I guess they provided great service to ensure a steady clientele.

BrizLad
10-01-20, 07:44
Man, this post is going to be fucking long. Sorry.

The end.If skinny MILF ever eaves you, can you give her my number?

I think your story is a good example f why we should always be in the lookout for opportunity and don't burn our bridges.

I also think in situations like this that deep down the husband knows.

Enjoy.

BL.

Luminous
10-03-20, 00:01
I know this is a SA thread, but didn't know where to post it so apologies in advance.

I am planning to use Tinder to friend girls in a south american countries in preparation for travels. Looking for tips from you guys on how to setup the profile to get the best hits?

Midwestern
10-03-20, 02:21
I know this is a SA thread, but didn't know where to post it so apologies in advance.

I am planning to use Tinder to friend girls in a south american countries in preparation for travels. Looking for tips from you guys on how to setup the profile to get the best hits?I started a new subforum within the Dating Agencies forum. We can discuss Tinder there. Here's the link: http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4185-Tinder.

Luminous, we'll call you the founder of the Tinder thread. Why you don't start by telling us your Best Practices for using Tinder in the states. And then you can nurture the thread.

NeilGeorge
10-04-20, 13:45
Have been getting a lot of messages from Venezuela girls on my SA website. Has anyone been successful meeting them? Can they meet you in Colombia? Or do some have visas to travel? Anyone had success or are they time wasters? Thanks.

LshRoomer
10-05-20, 06:26
Have been getting a lot of messages from Venezuela girls on my SA website. Has anyone been successful meeting them? Can they meet you in Colombia? Or do some have visas to travel? Anyone had success or are they time wasters? Thanks.I've seen that they are mostly a waste of time. Every time I reactivate my account, I always get a bunch of "spam" messages from places like Venezuela, etc. I pursued one time and it only yielded a girl that wanted me to pay her for pictures. I tried to set up a meet, but nothing ever materialized. Maybe guys actually in Venez might have more luck. I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first. If you decide to give it a shot, report back.

02.

Akibono
10-05-20, 06:47
I've seen that they are mostly a waste of time. Every time I reactivate my account, I always get a bunch of "spam" messages from places like Venezuela, etc. I pursued one time and it only yielded a girl that wanted me to pay her for pictures. I tried to set up a meet, but nothing ever materialized. Maybe guys actually in Venez might have more luck. I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first. If you decide to give it a shot, report back.

02.Too many girls on SA only want to sell overpriced pics and videos. Anyone distant is not looking for a meeting and a waste of time.

Midwestern
10-05-20, 07:38
I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first.

Me too. The ones that were contacting from overseas, I just mostly ignored them. There might have been one or two occasions where I asked them what they had in mind, but their replies indicated that a meetup was not on the menu. There were a few fat fuglies that contacted me too, they almost always asked, "how's the site treating you?” And my guess is that they were genuinely interested, but I ignored them too.

Nounce
10-05-20, 07:57
I've seen that they are mostly a waste of time. Every time I reactivate my account, I always get a bunch of "spam" messages from places like Venezuela, etc. I pursued one time and it only yielded a girl that wanted me to pay her for pictures. I tried to set up a meet, but nothing ever materialized. Maybe guys actually in Venez might have more luck. I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first. If you decide to give it a shot, report back.

02.I have interacted with some of them. I think they can satisfy people with certain fetishes via pictures of videos. One girl I talked to did well because she showed me many Paypal receipts. Her offer was that she would do anything I ask on video in exchange for money. The amount will be depending on the task. I did not want anything so I said I would give her some money anyway. I asked what is the typical charge so I know how much to give her and ask her to prove it. That is when she showed me the receipts and how I know she is doing well.

BrizLad
10-05-20, 12:58
Have been getting a lot of messages from Venezuela girls on my SA website. Has anyone been successful meeting them? Can they meet you in Colombia? Or do some have visas to travel? Anyone had success or are they time wasters? Thanks.Time wasters. I think you can set your inbox filters in seekng.com to ignore messages from girls that meet certain criteria. Any girl contacting you from outside your travel area is of no. Little value.

I too played with a Venezuela girl, go some free video calls but really not my thing. I am looking for physical hookups in my area.

LshRoomer
10-05-20, 19:04
I have interacted with some of them. I think they can satisfy people with certain fetishes via pictures of videos. One girl I talked to did well because she showed me many Paypal receipts. Her offer was that she would do anything I ask on video in exchange for money. The amount will be depending on the task. I did not want anything so I said I would give her some money anyway. I asked what is the typical charge so I know how much to give her and ask her to prove it. That is when she showed me the receipts and how I know she is doing well.Hey Nounce,

Just out of curiosity, how much are these girls making that are selling pics and vids on SA? What kinds of numbers did you see on the receipts?

Nounce
10-05-20, 20:47
Just out of curiosity, how much are these girls making that are selling pics and vids on SA? What kinds of numbers did you see on the receipts?I remember the minimum amount was US $50. I thought that was a lot for Venezuela. The maximum was no more than $100.

DramaFree11
10-05-20, 20:56
Time wasters. I think you can set your inbox filters in seekng.com to ignore messages from girls that meet certain criteria. Any girl contacting you from outside your travel area is of no. Little value.

I too played with a Venezuela girl, go some free video calls but really not my thing. I am looking for physical hookups in my area.Both a time waster and potential for being scammed is high. You can screen all this B.S, with the filters. As far as videos there are much better ways to spend your money.

AmericanPi
10-07-20, 06:48
Seeking pros: I haven't used Seeking yet but now I think I'm about to join.

The reason I haven't yet said it just seems like such a hassle wading through profiles and making it a numbers game, when an agency can provide a girl in 45 minutes. But I do like the idea of just having a day of meals and sights finished by a hotel session.

Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?

LshRoomer
10-07-20, 19:33
Seeking pros: I haven't used Seeking yet but now I think I'm about to join.

The reason I haven't yet said it just seems like such a hassle wading through profiles and making it a numbers game, when an agency can provide a girl in 45 minutes. But I do like the idea of just having a day of meals and sights finished by a hotel session.

Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?Join. After your first good experience with an SB, you won't regret it.

To your question. I've had the most success in Germany and UK. "Success" in this case is defined as comms were great (moving over to whatsapp), the girls were friendly, ready to hang out, and ready to bang at the end of hte night, all for about 300-400 eu. UK and Germany seem to have more grounded girls that just want to have fun and they appreciate the cash at the end of the day which makes it easier for me to give it.

In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.

Once in London, an escort tried to upsell me kissing. I just laughed (and said hell no in my head), as this would never happen with an SB.

One test I use to see if a place is "developed" is looking to see how many girls are recently active in an area. For instance, the first 10 pages or so for London have girls that have all been active within the last 24 hours.

There are plenty of tips and gotchas in this thread. Read back and stay safe man.

02.

Akibono
10-07-20, 20:39
Seeking pros: I haven't used Seeking yet but now I think I'm about to join.

The reason I haven't yet said it just seems like such a hassle wading through profiles and making it a numbers game, when an agency can provide a girl in 45 minutes. But I do like the idea of just having a day of meals and sights finished by a hotel session.

Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?None. If you want a hooker, just call the escort pages.

Akibono
10-07-20, 20:41
Join. After your first good experience with an SB, you won't regret it.

To your question. I've had the most success in Germany and UK. "Success" in this case is defined as comms were great (moving over to whatsapp), the girls were friendly, ready to hang out, and ready to bang at the end of hte night, all for about 300-400 eu. UK and Germany seem to have more grounded girls that just want to have fun and they appreciate the cash at the end of the day which makes it easier for me to give it.

In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.

Once in London, an escort tried to upsell me kissing. I just laughed (and said hell no in my head), as this would never happen with an SB.

One test I use to see if a place is "developed" is looking to see how many girls are recently active in an area. For instance, the first 10 pages or so for London have girls that have all been active within the last 24 hours.

There are plenty of tips and gotchas in this thread. Read back and stay safe man.

02.It would help this board if you posted what people wanted for various cities.

LshRoomer
10-07-20, 20:58
It would help this board if you posted what people wanted for various cities.Akibono,

We are all here to help each other and share our experiences sir. I don't understand what you mean in your last comment? Are you asking for city details instead of naming the general country?

BootyBandit84
10-07-20, 21:58
SA is a lot of work, but as some have said you can find some real gems out there. I had a SB in Tijuana a few years ago, and no pro escort anywhere else has even come close to giving me the same level of enjoyment. I was lucky though, she had only joined the site the day before because she had lost her job that week.

I will be heading to Medellin soon and I plan on using SA down there. Hopefully I'll get lucky.

I will point out that some of the prices they try and give you are ridiculous! So it might take a while to find one you really like for a decent price.

Pessimist
10-07-20, 22:33
Join. After your first good experience with an SB, you won't regret it.

To your question. I've had the most success in Germany and UK. "Success" in this case is defined as comms were great (moving over to whatsapp), the girls were friendly, ready to hang out, and ready to bang at the end of hte night, all for about 300-400 eu. UK and Germany seem to have more grounded girls that just want to have fun and they appreciate the cash at the end of the day which makes it easier for me to give it.

In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.

Once in London, an escort tried to upsell me kissing. I just laughed (and said hell no in my head), as this would never happen with an SB.

One test I use to see if a place is "developed" is looking to see how many girls are recently active in an area. For instance, the first 10 pages or so for London have girls that have all been active within the last 24 hours.

There are plenty of tips and gotchas in this thread. Read back and stay safe man.

02.Were you living in Denver and Orlando when you used SA? Or you visiting those cities on a short term basis? I can see Orlando is perhaps not too productive. I have not used SA in Orlando but have had some success in Miami / Ft Laud area and also a couple of times in Tampa; the Tampa / St Pete area was truly good with the amount of response I received when I sent out requests ahead of my visit and the quality of girls was awesome and FL prices were reasonably cheap. Orlando however is a touristy city with mostly Disney and Universal crowds and not a fun place otherwise so I can imagine it is a waste of time. I had been in Denver a bunch of times but not recently; I have been on SA for 4-5 years now but in this time frame I was in Denver only once and I did not get a chance to use SA on that visit.

Your 300/400 Euro price is a bit high for my taste. I have gotten super great service in Europe for 200. Pretty girls too. Europe is in economic distress. There are tons of girls now who are desperate. In Spain, one girl I met through SA told me that her work had dried up and she was more or less desperate. She was grateful to take 200 from me for each session, spent nearly 3 hrs each time and pretty much nothing was off limits. That would have cost a pretty penny in FKKs. On the plus side, she was a true Catalan woman and not a Romanian faking to be Catalan (FKK inside joke, for those who get it), BTW, this was prior to Covid. I would think things are truly dire in Europe now and I would not be shocked if you can truly exceptional deals for 200 to 300 (multiple hours, super hot girls, BBFS, etc).

I think in US it is possible to get decent service for fly by travelers but much better to be a local. American girls don't put out that easily and not necessarily on the first date. Some might but many won't. If you are in a city for 4 days, you can try your luck but don't be too disappointed if nothing happens. It is not you, it is them.

Of course, it all depends on who you seek. I always stick to 25, White, slim body types and generally pleasant pretty faces. Occasionally I take fair skinned Latinas. Colombian / Argentine types rather than Mexican / Brazilian types. That is my optical spec. I suspect if you compromise on specs or expand the range of specs, success rate might go up. However, I would not know because I did not try.

Member #4703
10-07-20, 22:41
Hey Guys,

Probably a noob question from a first time poster in this thread. I love in NL and have had quite some fun with the local sugar dating site, suikerarrengements. NL. Now planning a trip to Lisbon soon and couldn't find a local Portuguese sugardating website, so going to sign up for the premium membership of SA soon.

Question, if I become a premium member and message a girl, would the girl be able to read the message only if she is a premium member too? Asking because I am getting some messages from girls but can't read them as I am not a premium member.

Steve 9696
10-08-20, 00:10
I am of course the guy singing the praises of SA because I had so many good experiences last year. But man I am struggling in my second tier city. You may recall I started out with two scam girls arrive at the meet only to be told by text they can't meet till the get CashApp. Pick your favorite excuse.

Then I happened upon Layla and was saved. But Layla has some flaws and so when she's out of town I've been trying to find alternatives. And ouch!

I chased this one girl hard. Finally got her to go out. But then a postpone. Then on for today. But she didn't show. Apologized and had an excuse. But damn.

And had another date for tomorrow and I get the "car broke down need Cash App" text. Wtf is wrong with these girls. They could be making $400/ pop but they'the rather scam guys for $50 each and do volume. Sooooo annoying.

Very frustrated right now.

Steve 9696
10-08-20, 00:15
Hey Guys,

Probably a noob question from a first time poster in this thread. I love in NL and have had quite some fun with the local sugar dating site, suikerarrengements. NL. Now planning a trip to Lisbon soon and couldn't find a local Portuguese sugardating website, so going to sign up for the premium membership of SA soon.

Question, if I become a premium member and message a girl, would the girl be able to read the message only if she is a premium member too? Asking because I am getting some messages from girls but can't read them as I am not a premium member.Guys have dicks so they pay to message.

Girls have pussys so they message for free.

So yeah they don't need premium but you do.

Steve 9696
10-08-20, 00:19
I am of course the guy singing the praises of SA because I had so many good experiences last year. But man I am struggling in my second tier city. You may recall I started out with two scam girls — arrive at the meet only to be told by text they can't meet till the get CashApp. Pick your favorite excuse.

Then I happened upon Layla and was saved. But Layla has some flaws and so when she's out of town I've been trying tingindo alternatives. And ouch!

I chased this one girl hard. Finally got her to go out. But then a postpone. Then on for today. But she didn't show. Apologized and had an excuse. But damn.

And had another date for tomorrow and I get the "car broke down need Cash App" text. Wtf is wrong with these girls. They could be making $400/ pop but they'the rather scam guys for $50 each and do volume. Sooooo annoying.

Very frustrated right now.

Pessimist
10-08-20, 01:52
Hey Guys,

Probably a noob question from a first time poster in this thread. I love in NL and have had quite some fun with the local sugar dating site, suikerarrengements. NL. Now planning a trip to Lisbon soon and couldn't find a local Portuguese sugardating website, so going to sign up for the premium membership of SA soon.

Question, if I become a premium member and message a girl, would the girl be able to read the message only if she is a premium member too? Asking because I am getting some messages from girls but can't read them as I am not a premium member.I looked up Lisbon just now and the selection seems OK. That's a good omen as it is not always true in my experience that SA has a large enough selection of girls in all the European cities.

How long will you be in Lisbon? If it is for 2 to 3 weeks at least, paying up a month worth of subscription is worth it. If you are only there for a week or less, I would be hesitant to spend 80 bucks to purchase a subscription. When I used SA in Europe, it was because I already purchased subscription in USA and didn't cost me anything more to use in Europe.

Midwestern
10-08-20, 02:15
And had another date for tomorrow and I get the "car broke down need Cash App" text. Wtf is wrong with these girls. They could be making $400/ pop but they'the rather scam guys for $50 each and do volume. Sooooo annoying.

Very frustrated right now.I think these gals know what they're doing, based on their experience. We just don't know what their experiences are. Have you tried looking for SBs in a nearby city? I was stuck in a 2nd tier US city and had no success with SA, so then I expended my search to include two nearby cities and had some success. Of course, the downside was the 2-3 hour drives. So, I usually just spent the weekends in those nearby cities and made the most of my time there, even when the dates were occasional no-shows.

Midwestern
10-08-20, 02:27
Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?I had to travel to Portland OR a lot for work. My hit rate in Portland was very good. Maybe it's because hippy chicks are more chill, I don't know.

I tried SA in about a dozen USA Cities, and other than Portland, OR, I would say that Las Vegas was second best, which seems counter intuitive, but I think any city where tourism is the main industry is a city where the many locals are hard up for money. After all, you cannot get rich being a waitress or a blackjack dealer. For example, another place where I had good success was Niagara Falls on the Canadian side. My main city for SA was SF, and man oh man, that was a LOT of work, but it was pretty worth it.

Midwestern
10-08-20, 02:31
In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.
Orlando surprisingly has a lot of FS AMPS, so that's a good alternative if you find yourself in Orlando.