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Akibono
08-04-21, 06:50
Also you say a lot of them aren't rich but I'm seeing a lot of girls posting. They have nursing degrees and engineering degrees. Why are they on the site if the have all this schooling. Especially nursing. They need nurses like crazy.They are only searching for an easier way to make a living.

TjBrazil
08-04-21, 14:04
When it comes to price in the USA sex prison, I say I do not pay for sex but give gifts to women I like. I then give a range of what my gifts were like in the past. That satisfies the women. They get that saying $500 for 2 hours of sex gets everyone banned.

But when negotiating in countries where prostitution is legal / tolerated, Peru, Mexico, Colombia, you can be totally blunt.Is that why SA now has the gifts section that you can send the girl gifts that range from hundreds to thousands of dollars. I don't remember the site having a gifts section when I was in Cancun not that long ago.

It must be a way for everyone to avoid the police including the website owner. If telling a girl I will give you 500 for sex gets me banned and possibly arrested if their is a sting. Option 2 is tell her I will send a purse through the site as a gift worth 500 for a first date. I'm assuming the cops can't do anything about that. All this mental gymnastics is really silly. Why can't we just legalize prostitution and call it a day.

TjBrazil
08-04-21, 14:07
No photo but I did upload one and I will send it if a woman requests it. Probably only a third do.I had a picture of my full body so the girls can see my weight and race. I just cover my face. If you have no picture at all it seems like you would get no response.

Pessimist
08-04-21, 18:38
Is that why SA now has the gifts section that you can send the girl gifts that range from hundreds to thousands of dollars. I don't remember the site having a gifts section when I was in Cancun not that long ago.

It must be a way for everyone to avoid the police including the website owner. If telling a girl I will give you 500 for sex gets me banned and possibly arrested if their is a sting. Option 2 is tell her I will send a purse through the site as a gift worth 500 for a first date. I'm assuming the cops can't do anything about that. All this mental gymnastics is really silly. Why can't we just legalize prostitution and call it a day.SA added the gifts section to make more money, I. E. Fleece the paying male subscribers even more.

I wrote this earlier in this thread; the gift giving is an established practice in China and elsewhere in Asia, as I understand. The Chinese meeting places like Tantan and MOMO have a large amount of business from tips and gift giving. In Asia, people hate paying for subscriptions and sites make more of their money from gifts and tips.

SA of course is charging a fucking boatload monthly for subscription; no site in Asia charges $90 a month and few men anywhere in the world would pay such amounts. But SA has become greedy and even more greedy and wants to fuck these men even worse, so now they added the gift giving section. Naturally, they take their generous cut.

Steve 9696
08-04-21, 19:59
I had a picture of my full body so the girls can see my weight and race. I just cover my face. If you have no picture at all it seems like you would get no response.Not true. I have no pic and have been with 25+ seeking girls over last couple years. All of mine have been of the newbie or only marginally semi-pro status. I always end up sending a pic before meetup but it's funny about the timeline when the girls ask. The pros don't really ask at all. But the Newbies either ask right away or maybe very very late like they are embarrassed to ask you.

And every girl but a pro has had beaten into them their entire life that sex for money is wrong. You want to help her NOT feel like a pro or a ****. So that's why it's all indirect. My analogy is being a meat eater. Sure in the end I am paying a guy to kill a cow so I can eat it. But I want to be distant from that transaction — I don't want to literally give a guy money and watch him kill it. I have mentally distanced my self from the act of paying money for someone to kill something. Same for the girls. They need to rationalize in their minds that it's not money for sex. Your job is to help them.

But def don't do the gifts thing. They want $$$ in the end. Pretty much 100%.

Steve 9696
08-04-21, 20:13
So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?

Akibono
08-04-21, 20:52
So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?Tough call. I would use: "Want to go to a place with more privacy?" You want to be a bit ambiguous and test the waters without either side embarrassing themselves. NYC is a hard place since everything is expensive, but what is popular now are rooftop bars. Generally, these are places with a bit of privacy at night. They are getting more common in other cities and may have some loud music which also helps. I know a few places where they have become make out sessions. This is the perfect setup. If you sit close to the girl, you can sense the comfort level and maybe even get in a few kisses. Her reaction when you hold her hand is also a good indication if she is receptive. Body language is the key, not what is said. That is the perfect opportunity to seek some privacy and she will know what it means. It gives her the option to accept, delay or end the date. I have not been reliably able to bring up the issue without appearing too crude, but I am getting better at it.

WyattEarp
08-04-21, 21:17
So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?"You want to get out of here?" might be a bit vague for some girls. I'm not a SA pro like you and many here, but my line is something like "Do you want to come back to my place and relax? Yes it's more direct, but it seems more clear of your intent.

Of course, you will have girls who later think they are at your place to literally relax. Haha. That's where your "nanpa" skills come into play. Haha, it's Steve who has the last laugh. I instinctively knew about nanpa, but I didn't know specifically of the nanpa dance. In retrospect, when I hooked up with a reluctant girl I was using nanpa. When I had a girl at my place late at night and nothing happened, I was failing to use the nanpa techniques.

Pessimist
08-05-21, 03:18
So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.

Then I had the date with Sue, the 22 year old who was totally shocked we went to a hotel room (but I got a BJ if you recall). I later asked her about this and she said "you want to get out of here" is like go to another bar or something. She'the say "you want to link up?" But when I read on the internet this is pretty much not code. It's like saying you want to fuck?

I don't think I am "cool" enough to use "want to link up" and will stick with old faithful but it got me curious because there def is a generation gap here. I find they also put their smiley text backward too! Like this (: Damn kids!

What's your "want to fuck" line at the bar or dinner table?I don't know that I have any such lines. As you can probably tell, I am sort of transaction oriented, not too much emotion type person; I ask them what they are ok with, what is off limits, what they don't want or like etc. , and it becomes obvious whether sex is on the table or not, but I want them to say it, not me; then I tell them I am willing to give an allowance of $x but also make it clear I don't give money for casual dates like movies, dinners, etc, so it is clear to them that amount is for sex. Finally, I say if you are happy and continue to see each other, perhaps we can meet at this hotel because my place is off limits. Almost everyone gets the drift.

Only once it failed spectacularly. I had a girl who came to my hotel past 11 PM, took a cab to come to my room, we sat around chatting for half hour, had a quick drink in my room, got on my bed and making out, heavy kissing and petting, I had her tits out and she says "you know we are not having sex right". I am like "why the fuck are you here then and why are your tits in my mouth" - she was "but you never specified sex". I got frustrated, told her to leave because I wanted to sleep, and she was expecting the full amount; I gave her a $100 and said that's it. She was upset and let in a huff, and I slept with blue balls. IIRC that was in Atlanta or somewhere in the south and may be 3 or 4 years ago. She was pretty hot however.

Midwestern
08-05-21, 11:50
I once did meet a cute blonde who was a physics and engineering student, as she represented. It was during a travel away from my home city. I have a lot of background in those areas and we met for dinners on 3 straight evenings and talked for hours about those fields; she was extremely bright. I never got the courage to ask her to my room or make a move for sex; seemed too disrespectful somehow. I gave her a couple of hundred dollars as gift on the last evening. She refused to take it at first but I insisted and she was happy. To this day, I don't know why she was on the site. I sometimes wonder if I should have made a move on her, she was quite cute and I had more bonding with her in those 3 dinners than with girls I had sex multiple times, but it kinda remains as a regret now. At that time, I didn't want to spoil it; strange because I had not been that tongue tied when it comes to sex since I was a gawky teen.Maybe deep down inside, it felt weird to do P4 P with someone you respected intellectually. This happened to me a few times. One gal that I met on the site graduated from an Ivy League school, but majored in something brainy but totally useless. When we talked, I did not understand all the fancy words she used, and she used to quote Shakespeare a lot too, even though she was mostly math inclined. Eventually, it just felt weird to pay to fuck her. I did not feel superior. Eventually, we became whisky drinking buddies. I still keep in touch with her.

So for me, maybe I need the gal to worship me for me to get turned on.

Midwestern
08-05-21, 11:56
So after you have had a nice meal and some drinks and the chemistry is there, what's your favorite way to suggest you go fuck? Without saying "let's go fuck". My tried and true had been to look her in the eyes and say "You want to get out of here?" Thought that was pretty much code for let's go fuck.Man, I wish I had a go to closer line. I just try to get drunk with the gal, and most of the time that just naturally leads to something. But usually something like "let's go the room and hang out and drink there, it is more comfortable" usually works. I am pretty sure every girl knows what I am getting at when I say this, but at least it sounds plausible and not offensive.

Midwestern
08-05-21, 12:02
And every girl but a pro has had beaten into them their entire life that sex for money is wrong. You want to help her NOT feel like a pro or a ****. So that's why it's all indirect.

They need to rationalize in their minds that it's not money for sex. Your job is to help them.I currently have that now with someone. When we meet to fuck, I never give her any money. But every once in a while, she will say that she needs something, like a hair dryer or makeup or a blanket. I ask her how much it costs, and I pay for it. In her mind, I am her boyfriend, and so I should take care of her sometimes.

BTW, I raw dogged her in the ass today. Is that dangerous disease-wise?

BrizLad
08-05-21, 12:14
On and off seeking for the past two years. I'm wondering if you guys keep notes outside of the site and conversations?

I've found that:

If the girl deletes her profile then I cannot access the conversations.

If the girl I'm dating block my profile so I can't see her online, the direct URL still usually works.

Girls will sometime move there profile out of my city so they don't appear in searches and online statuses while allowing them to keep searching and conversing.

I have a password protected Word doc that keeps a list of their username, first name, profile URL, phone #, whatsapp etc. Pertinent notes.

One expectation I have with the girl that I ask them is that they will need to delete their profile when we start an arrangement. The stimulating ego trip of seeking is hard for girls to break when they think the next message will be from THE maserati driving sugar daddy of the seeking adverts.

Mongerer88
08-05-21, 12:15
Maybe deep down inside, it felt weird to do P4 P with someone you respected intellectually. This happened to me a few times. One gal that I met on the site graduated from an Ivy League school, but majored in something brainy but totally useless. When we talked, I did not understand all the fancy words she used, and she used to quote Shakespeare a lot too, even though she was mostly math inclined. Eventually, it just felt weird to pay to fuck her. I did not feel superior. Eventually, we became whisky drinking buddies. I still keep in touch with her.

So for me, maybe I need the gal to worship me for me to get turned on.Very interesting theory. I think ISG's emphasis on the third world gathers guys with a different viewpoint than most guys who mostly see USA Escorts.

I was intrigued by TJBrazil's skepticism about there being USA Nurse's and engineers on the SA site. If a young lady earns $100,000 a year, and also likes sex, why in the world would she not be interested in earning an additional $10,000 of cash income and gifts a year doing something that is not all that time consuming? It happens all of the time. Some of those potential ladies escort, but that requires a lot more effort, upfront cost, and chance of obvious discovery than SA. It is a dream come true for them. They are going on a date. I also did not understand TJBrazil's belief that the gift section of SA somehow substituted for a "date fee", or that it was there to provide additional legal protection. It is designed as an additional gift. It is not illegal in the USA To purchase the time and companionship of an escort, and it is certainly not illegal to pay someone to go on a date. Direct cash for sex is illegal, and soliciting sex for cash is illegal (which is the basis for almost all USA Prostitution arrests, since directly proving that sex occurs is very difficult).

Pessimist
08-05-21, 20:01
Very interesting theory. I think ISG's emphasis on the third world gathers guys with a different viewpoint than most guys who mostly see USA Escorts.

If a young lady earns $100,000 a year, and also likes sex, why in the world would she not be interested in earning an additional $10,000 of cash income and gifts a year doing something that is not all that time consuming? It happens all of the time. .I am sorry, but you are saying there are a lot of women making $100 K annually and still working as escorts? Where are you finding them?

I can believe that there is an occasional one you meet here or there, but "all the time".

One possible answer to your question: regardless of what we think on ISG, most of this US society looks down on prostitution. If a woman making $100 grand was founding to be hooking for money, she probably would be ostracized by her pals and peers and probably lose her job, in which case she would have lost $100 K job for an extra $10 K side gig.

Particularly so because jobs that pay $100 K tend to be white collar jobs requiring some education or degree (I am not talking about strippers making $100 K here), and this fear of ostracism is much higher in the educated, professional class, and so is the risk of job loss for that category.

This country has all sorts of protection from getting fired on the basis of race, religion, dadada, but not working as prostitutes or escorts.

Midwestern
08-06-21, 05:36
There are plenty of rich girls on SA in the United States. By "plenty" I only mean maybe around 5% of them are pretty rich, but that is sitll a high fraction in my opinion. Whenever I looked at around one or two hundred profiles in one sitting, I would always come across at least a dozen rich gals. If you increase the age range to include 30's, 40's, and even 50's, there are even more rich girls, like maybe 15% of them.

Some of these rich gals are undergrads who come from wealthy families, but they just like having rich 40 year old SDs that will buy them LV purses and and clothes.

Some of these rich women make decent money in good jobs. I met an investment banker, a lawyer, a PE investor, a resaturant owner, etc. , on SA. Why were they on SA? Most of them liked the rich lifestyle and wanted a NSA relationships with someone that could partake in that lifestyle. I met one gal who was an exec at a firm. She had a big house, drove a fancy car, etc. I asked her why she was on SA, and she said she just wanted to date a rich and successful person, like herself.

Some of these rich gals are a little older, and so they already have the finer things in life, like a nice house, but they just like to fuck. I guess they could use Tinder or something else, and maybe they do, but some of them are also on SA to screen for successful men.

Are these rich gals good at being SBs? I found out that they cannot be generalized. Many of them did not care about the money, and most never asked me for any cash. That was the good part. However, here are some real lines that I got from some of them, "Let's get a suite at the Omni this weekend and do a staycation. " "LE'ts spend the weekend in Napa Valley. " "Let's try to get a dinner reservation at XXX (where XXX would be the hottest restaurant in town and a sure $1,000 dinner bill that included a bottle or two of wine and a tip). " They are used to this lifestyle, many could afford it themselves, but were just looking for a guy that could do it too. But some of them never asked for this stuff and never asked for cash or cared too much about the cash. So, it really varied.

Midwestern
08-06-21, 05:42
One expectation I have with the girl that I ask them is that they will need to delete their profile when we start an arrangement. The stimulating ego trip of seeking is hard for girls to break when they think the next message will be from THE maserati driving sugar daddy of the seeking adverts.I also asked my SBs to delete their profiles after we started an arrangement. They did. However, I later discovered they had multiple profiles, and they also listed their profiles on other sites.

Gfefan
08-06-21, 11:34
I keep a scratch card kind of thing on a mongering email (which I access only through incognito windows which are password protected.

Every time I get a phone number or telegram or kik ID from the girl, I update the scratch card.


On and off seeking for the past two years. I'm wondering if you guys keep notes outside of the site and conversations?

I've found that:

If the girl deletes her profile then I cannot access the conversations.

If the girl I'm dating block my profile so I can't see her online, the direct URL still usually works.

Girls will sometime move there profile out of my city so they don't appear in searches and online statuses while allowing them to keep searching and conversing.

I have a password protected Word doc that keeps a list of their username, first name, profile URL, phone #, whatsapp etc. Pertinent notes.

One expectation I have with the girl that I ask them is that they will need to delete their profile when we start an arrangement. The stimulating ego trip of seeking is hard for girls to break when they think the next message will be from THE maserati driving sugar daddy of the seeking adverts.

Gfefan
08-06-21, 11:45
I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.

Steve 9696
08-06-21, 13:49
I also asked my SBs to delete their profiles after we started an arrangement. They did. However, I later discovered they had multiple profiles, and they also listed their profiles on other sites.I have to admit it surprises me — guys asking them to delete their profiles. I mean the point of SA is it's NSA. I feel like we shouldn't be demanding exclusivity of each other — it's not like we are getting married. And I'm not being exclusive so it seems a bit harsh to ask her to be.

I will admit I don't love it if I see a girl I am pretty regular with still on the prowl. And I surely don't want to hear about it. But these girls got to pay the rent and I'm not really their boyfriend. Anyhow I guess my philosophy is live and let live on this one.

Pessimist
08-06-21, 16:08
Maybe deep down inside, it felt weird to do P4 P with someone you respected intellectually. This happened to me a few times. One gal that I met on the site graduated from an Ivy League school, but majored in something brainy but totally useless. When we talked, I did not understand all the fancy words she used, and she used to quote Shakespeare a lot too, even though she was mostly math inclined. Eventually, it just felt weird to pay to fuck her. I did not feel superior. Eventually, we became whisky drinking buddies. I still keep in touch with her.

So for me, maybe I need the gal to worship me for me to get turned on.I feel like I would have enjoyed fucking her very much but was timid with initiating it. She just did not give that vibe, although very friendly. In many SA conversations, I do ask the girl what she wants and what she is seeking but for some reason it drifted off into other topics with this girl online even before I met her and I never asked what she wanted or why she is on seeking. Obviously for money of course, but what she was willing to do is something I could not get any clarity in my mind. There are plenty of girls who claim they like science and even repeat some stuff they might have looked up online or in books but few are good with details; this girl knew equations, circuit analysis, programming. In detail; it was more like dating a smart student in college. Now, I did have some quick fucks in college too and some were with smart girls but perhaps I was out of practice, having been in a relationship for a long time and using FKKs and SA for easy sex on the side.

Pessimist
08-06-21, 16:17
I have to admit it surprises me guys asking them to delete their profiles. I mean the point of SA is it's NSA. I feel like we shouldn't be demanding exclusivity of each other it's not like we are getting married. And I'm not being exclusive so it seems a bit harsh to ask her to be.

I will admit I don't love it if I see a girl I am pretty regular with still on the prowl. And I surely don't want to hear about it. But these girls got to pay the rent and I'm not really their boyfriend. Anyhow I guess my philosophy is live and let live on this one.I agree. I am often on SA checking profiles of other girls a few hours after I had sex with a girl from SA; it would be hypocritical on my part that I should her to be exclusive when I am not. What's more, the girls know it too. Why should they be faithful when the guy is cheating? They will only assume, correctly of course, that the guy is a hypocrite for asking such a thing.

Also, there is nothing great about being exclusive. I already have a relationship at home and SA is a fun thing on the side. If the girl is exclusive to me, what does it get? She would expect more meetings per week, more money. That is exactly the kind of relationship I do not desire. I want it to be untethered, a couple of pleasant time together with both of us getting what we want and moving on, and if we like it we will keep repeating until one of us gets bored.

Pessimist
08-06-21, 16:21
There are plenty of rich girls on SA in the United States. By "plenty" I only mean maybe around 5% of them are pretty rich, but that is sitll a high fraction in my opinion. Whenever I looked at around one or two hundred profiles in one sitting, I would always come across at least a dozen rich gals. If you increase the age range to include 30's, 40's, and even 50's, there are even more rich girls, like maybe 15% of them.

Some of these rich gals are undergrads who come from wealthy families, but they just like having rich 40 year old SDs that will buy them LV purses and and clothes.

Some of these rich women make decent money in good jobs. I met an investment banker, a lawyer, a PE investor, a resaturant owner, etc. , on SA. Why were they on SA? Most of them liked the rich lifestyle and wanted a NSA relationships with someone that could partake in that lifestyle. I met one gal who was an exec at a firm. She had a big house, drove a fancy car, etc. I asked her why she was on SA, and she said she just wanted to date a rich and successful person, like herself.

Some of these rich gals are a little older, and so they already have the finer things in life, like a nice house, but they just like to fuck. I guess they could use Tinder or something else, and maybe they do, but some of them are also on SA to screen for successful men.That is interesting, thanks! Perhaps it is the demographic that I am seeking and filtering out when I do my searches (less than 25 years, occasionally up to 30). Also, the ppm type arrangements I favor do not appeal to such rich chicks nor is my price range.

Elvis 2008
08-06-21, 18:46
Also, there is nothing great about being exclusive. I already have a relationship at home and SA is a fun thing on the side. If the girl is exclusive to me, what does it get? She would expect more meetings per week, more money. That is exactly the kind of relationship I do not desire. I want it to be untethered, a couple of pleasant time together with both of us getting what we want and moving on, and if we like it we will keep repeating until one of us gets bored.Yeah, I do not get that either for the most part when guys said a woman I was seeing was off fucking others guys. I was like so what? I care how well she fucks me when we are together. I guess other guys were afraid if she went bare and was fucking around that she would be more at risk for STDs or something.

Maybe other guys did not have what I had at home when I was married. I see guys who are married and miserable all the time like I was. That commitment is like being committed as in to a mental institution in many cases.

Before I found my gal, I was off digging around in the manosphere for some guidance with where I was going with my life. I really loved the book, the Unplugged Alpha by Richard Cooper who is single. He also has a youtube channel I like. But his book was kind of his take on the Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi. Rollo is married, and I think he is a better speaker than writer. I loved that I finally was reading a bunch of guys who knew how I felt, were smart, and could justify my need to see multiple women.

Anyway, Rollo said something that stuck with me. He said that his marriage is not work, and marriages should not be work. That kind of goes against everything that has been preached to us, but I liked that. If your marriage is not great, then why stay in it? Why settle?

I do not think that a lot of guys understand that I did the SB thing not because of some need for commitment or to pay women to like me but because the sex was better. How hard are people really going to try for money? I remember watching a boxer. I think it was Larry Holmes way back when. He is getting like $20 million for the fight, and the other boxer hit him in the balls. THAT is what pissed him off and he then went and kicked the other guy's ass. Sure, there are some women so good sexually they can perform day after day with multiple guys and be good in bed, but there really are not that many of them.

In contrast, I remember a woman whose inner drive did not extend to the bedroom. In bed, she was like, "Ooh, I am not doing that". I liked her so much I actually lectured her. I told her to think me of as a boss and I said if you not perform, you are not going to get the job and the money. I have other women who do not say "Ooh, I do not like doing that" and THEY do all they can to please me, and THAT is why I am paying you.

So here is this hot 22 year old engineer being lectured by a 50+ year old guy who is no one's idea of Brad Pitt, but she knew I was right. Next time, we were together she hopped on my dick and rode it with everything she had. She was not fucking for money but for her worth as a person, and the sex with her the next time was incredible and memorable. She begged me not to give up on her, but I did because even though she was that much better, there were other women who were just not as much work and better in bed.

The only reason I committed to a woman is because I have a great woman who brings it every fucking night, and I do not want to lose that. For me now, any other woman would be a letdown. That is kind of an interesting question for the guys. Have you ever met a woman so fucking good in bed that you would give up everyone else? Do you even think that exists?

Before I met my current gal, I would have said hell no.

Steve 9696
08-06-21, 20:06
To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. Yes some girls look just spectacular cowgirling. And yes some look you strong in the eyes in mish and make you feel the most desirable man in the world as you pump one out. But it's the BJ that separates a woman from all else.

If I had a woman who could give a mind bending BJ like no other (Rivetta? Andressa? Noleta? Anna?) and was into doing that at least once a day maybe more then yeah I'the have a keeper on my hands. At least that's what I think now. After a year of mind bending BJs maybe I'the get bored. Hope to find out some day. LOL.

Akibono
08-06-21, 20:11
Yeah, I do not get that either for the most part when guys said a woman I was seeing was off fucking others guys. I was like so what? I care how well she fucks me when we are together. I guess other guys were afraid if she went bare and was fucking around that she would be more at risk for STDs or something.

Maybe other guys did not have what I had at home when I was married. I see guys who are married and miserable all the time like I was. That commitment is like being committed as in to a mental institution in many cases.

Before I found my gal, I was off digging around in the manosphere for some guidance with where I was going with my life. I really loved the book, the Unplugged Alpha by Richard Cooper who is single. He also has a youtube channel I like. But his book was kind of his take on the Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi. Rollo is married, and I think he is a better speaker than writer. I loved that I finally was reading a bunch of guys who knew how I felt, were smart, and could justify my need to see multiple women9.

Anyway, Rollo said something that stuck with me. He said that his marriage is not work, and marriages should not be work. That kind of goes against everything that has been preached to us, but I liked that. If your marriage is not great, then why stay in it? Why settle?

I do not think that a lot of guys understand that I did the SB thing not because of some need for commitment or to pay women to like me but because the sex was better. How hard are people really going to try for money? I remember watching a boxer.Steve put it best. No matter how good she is, you eventually get bored. We want different, unpredictable, and exciting.

Akibono
08-06-21, 20:29
To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. Yes some girls look just spectacular cowgirling. And yes some look you strong in the eyes in mish and make you feel the most desirable man in the world as you pump one out. But it's the BJ that separates a woman from all else.

If I had a woman who could give a mind bending BJ like no other (Rivetta? Andressa? Noleta? Anna?) and was into doing that at least once a day maybe more then yeah I'the have a keeper on my hands. At least that's what I think now. After a year of mind bending BJs maybe I'the get bored. Hope to find out some day. LOL.You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.

Akibono
08-06-21, 20:34
I have to admit it surprises me guys asking them to delete their profiles. I mean the point of SA is it's NSA. I feel like we shouldn't be demanding exclusivity of each other it's not like we are getting married. And I'm not being exclusive so it seems a bit harsh to ask her to be.

I will admit I don't love it if I see a girl I am pretty regular with still on the prowl. And I surely don't want to hear about it. But these girls got to pay the rent and I'm not really their boyfriend. Anyhow I guess my philosophy is live and let live on this one.Bingo. Unless you are paying all her expenses, she has someone else on the side. Even if she claims you are exclusive, she can still cheat. That is why I don't go cheap if I find someone good. If you under pay, she will trade up just like we do. She will go for the better deal or be unavailable. The beauty is SA is that there is another target on the next page. If a gal ghosts you, you just move on. No need to be obsessed. That's for losers.

Steve 9696
08-06-21, 21:47
You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.Haha. Well part of it is just seeing a ton of girls. If you see 100 you are bound to find one or two BBBJ masters. To be fair Anna, Noleta, and Rivetta are all pros. Andressa was not a pro but was the closest thing to a Unicorn ever. 9. 5 looks 9. 5 personality 9. 5 skills 9. 5 attitude. Scandallo girl 2019.

I have however trained a few up a bit. Alexa was too vanilla and no harmonica. Same with Layla. Both took direction well and eventually became top performers. Layla is a ghost now but Alexa is still on my hit list and down to travel again. Can't wait to see her because she is a to die for cutie with a perfect bod to boot.

WyattEarp
08-06-21, 22:32
You either train the girls or you pick them well. LOL. I find very few girls know how to do that mind blowing BJ. It has to be slow, have variety, and stamina. Plus, her technique must be good. A rare combination. Girls don't seem to understand it is not the act or the orgasm. It is the pleasure and how long you can keep a man on the edge. The example that come to mind is a girl that allowed me to fuck her mouth like a pussy. She would just alter the pressure by her lip and tongue. She could change the pressure rhythmically or make it feel like a virgin. Totally mind blowing.An underrated technique is intense suction. I find that gets me going. It's rare because many women seem to rely on too much dick licking and kissing combined with lackluster head movement when in it's in their mouth.

I always joke about the hot girls who tell me their old boyfriends say how great they are at giving head. These guys are the problem.

Elvis 2008
08-07-21, 00:45
To Elvis's question of can you have a girl so good in bed you don't want others I would say YES but it's about the BJ not the sex. To me there is only so creative she can get with her pussy. You must use condoms Steve because before I went bare (after reading a huge metanalysis study that showed condoms do not really work for STDs) I would have agreed with you. Afterwards, there was a huge variation with fucking. In fact, the condoms almost protect you from a girl's snatch that is so tight it bites or is just the right amount of tight. It is hard to for me to fuck with condoms now. It is almost like what is the point?

And I do not mean to brag but my gal looks at sex like a workout and likes doing cowgirl most the time. How often is that you have a girl fuck you so hard she has sweat pouring off and if the bed is not bolted down, moves it around the room she is humping you so hard. My main concern is if this sexual energy (or stocking wearing) ends. I mean look at this episode of one of my favorite shows ever Coupling here at the 9:54 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_aUwbt5Pos.

Steve Taylor: There are three things all men should know, and it's time you did too. You're never going to be famous, you're fatter than you think, and, most important of all, they don't keep wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Julia always wears stockings. No, really! She's always worn them. She always will. She told me.

(Steve and Patrick chuckle).

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: In fact, Julia told me she.

Steve Taylor, Patrick Maitland: (finishing with him). Prefers wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: What?

Steve Taylor: Stockings aren't real, Jeff. They're a myth.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Stockings are real. I've seen 'them.

Steve Taylor: Oh, sure there are some stockings out there, but. There's. What? Ten pairs in the whole world?

Patrick Maitland: Ten, at most.

Steve Taylor: Ten pairs for all the women in the world. They share 'them out.

(Speaking in a woman's voice).

Steve Taylor: Oh, Julia! Why'got a new boyfriend? Your turn with the stockings then, but we'll need them back on Tuesday. There's an anniversary in New Zealand.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Tuesday?

Steve Taylor: The stockings will go, Jeff. They'll just melt away.

I kind of wonder if this is the real reason we look for strange. This is why I swore off monogamy. I only want to fuck women with stockings!

As for blowjobs, I know what you mean. There is nothing like a good BJ but they have two functions: to get you up and to get you off. Ironically, there was one stripper at my favorite club, and she had to finish me off quick. I would go to the club see her and shoo her away at first because her BJ was so good she would get me off in like 2 seconds. My routine was to get turned on with dances from the other girls and then see her for relief. I only did that a few thousand times.

I think what you mean is the kind of blowjob where the woman hits you in just the right spot so you are dying to fuck her right? I have had a handful of woman who hit the right spots, maybe five that gave out of this world head. My girl is not top five with head sensually but again she brings such energy she gets me hard. It is weird in that I think I have better orgasms with oral or a hand job but it is not quite the stress relief because there is no exertion, so I do not feel like that is real sex. I guess everyone is different.

Shit, what do you think women would do to us if we had this discussion any place but here?

Akibono
08-07-21, 01:48
Haha. Well part of it is just seeing a ton of girls. If you see 100 you are bound to find one or two BBBJ masters. To be fair Anna, Noleta, and Rivetta are all pros. Andressa was not a pro but was the closest thing to a Unicorn ever. 9. 5 looks 9. 5 personality 9. 5 skills 9. 5 attitude. Scandallo girl 2019.

I have however trained a few up a bit. Alexa was too vanilla and no harmonica. Same with Layla. Both took direction well and eventually became top performers. Layla is a ghost now but Alexa is still on my hit list and down to travel again. Can't wait to see her because she is a to die for cutie with a perfect bod to boot.Well you might just send them a tutorial video. Here is one.

https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5eedb1cf26548

Steve 9696
08-07-21, 02:44
Well you might just send them a tutorial video. Here is one.

https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5eedb1cf26548Not bad. She's a bit too teasey for me. Not enough BLS and no harmonica boo! I find the Japanese really know a good BJ. I subscribed to FellatioJapan.com for a while even tho paying for porn is dumb. But that's how good it is.

But I realize that even what is excellent varies. Rivetta had a way of putting her tongue flat at the top while she gave you the best doe eyes on the planet and then would take it deep without losing eye contact. Can't put my finger on Noletas magic but I had what felt like a ten minute long climax with her. And Anna I know exactly what it was. She had this great buffet of blowjob but when I was getting close she would crawl up and DFK me and I'the ease off the edge and she would go down again. She could just sense when I was close and would DFK me. It was amazing because went on forever.

I'm a big fan of mixing in harmonica and BLS along with full on mouth action. It's the buffet that does it for me.

Midwestern
08-07-21, 02:44
I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off.

I obviously do not get pissed of when a WG fucks other guys. Should I feel the same way if an SB fucks other guys? If so, then what's the difference between an SB and a WG?

The difference is fuzzy. I started seeing one WG regularly after she tried to go legit. It was great. But then I found out later that she went back to hooking. I was pretty devastated. I stopped seeing her for a few months. But then I saw her again, and it was like old times. I will see her again, even though she is hooking again. Is she an SB or is she a WG?

Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.

Steve 9696
08-07-21, 02:52
You must use condoms Steve because before I went bare (after reading a huge metanalysis study that showed condoms do not really work for STDs) I would have agreed with you. Afterwards, there was a huge variation with fucking. In fact, the condoms almost protect you from a girl's snatch that is so tight it bites or is just the right amount of tight. It is hard to for me to fuck with condoms now. It is almost like what is the point?

And I do not mean to brag but my gal looks at sex like a workout and likes doing cowgirl most the time. How often is that you have a girl fuck you so hard she has sweat pouring off and if the bed is not bolted down, moves it around the room she is humping you so hard. My main concern is if this sexual energy (or stocking wearing) ends. I mean look at this episode of one of my favorite shows ever Coupling here at the 9:54 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_aUwbt5Pos.

Steve Taylor: There are three things all men should know, and it's time you did too. You're never going to be famous, you're fatter than you think, and, most important of all, they don't keep wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Julia always wears stockings. No, really! She's always worn them. She always will. She told me.

(Steve and Patrick chuckle).

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: In fact, Julia told me she.

Steve Taylor, Patrick Maitland: (finishing with him). Prefers wearing stockings.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: What?

Steve Taylor: Stockings aren't real, Jeff. They're a myth.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Stockings are real. I've seen 'them.

Steve Taylor: Oh, sure there are some stockings out there, but. There's. What? Ten pairs in the whole world?

Patrick Maitland: Ten, at most.

Steve Taylor: Ten pairs for all the women in the world. They share 'them out.

(Speaking in a woman's voice).

Steve Taylor: Oh, Julia! Why'got a new boyfriend? Your turn with the stockings then, but we'll need them back on Tuesday. There's an anniversary in New Zealand.

Jeffrey 'Jeff' Murdock: Tuesday?

Steve Taylor: The stockings will go, Jeff. They'll just melt away.

I kind of wonder if this is the real reason we look for strange. This is why I swore off monogamy. I only want to fuck women with stockings!

As for blowjobs, I know what you mean. There is nothing like a good BJ but they have two functions: to get you up and to get you off. Ironically, there was one stripper at my favorite club, and she had to finish me off quick. I would go to the club see her and shoo her away at first because her BJ was so good she would get me off in like 2 seconds. My routine was to get turned on with dances from the other girls and then see her for relief. I only did that a few thousand times.

I think what you mean is the kind of blowjob where the woman hits you in just the right spot so you are dying to fuck her right? I have had a handful of woman who hit the right spots, maybe five that gave out of this world head. My girl is not top five with head sensually but again she brings such energy she gets me hard. It is weird in that I think I have better orgasms with oral or a hand job but it is not quite the stress relief because there is no exertion, so I do not feel like that is real sex. I guess everyone is different.

Shit, what do you think women would do to us if we had this discussion any place but here?Yeah I have no doubt that the subtleties are a lot more obvious bareback. Fucking with a condom indeed lame and I consider it just a part of the affair because as you say you need some animal pounding as a man. But BBBJ is the main event if you have to fuck with a condom. I'm not worried about STD. I just don't want to leave some unwise girl with a big lifelong boat anchor.

But we are all different. Like if you super dig cowgirl I think you are in the minority. Most guys like it in and out and to be in charge. Girls like to grind their clit. So cowgirl tends to be the least satisfying for me (and many guys I think). I'll take making out in mish over just about anything else — besides BBBJ.

Steve 9696
08-07-21, 02:59
I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off.

I obviously do not get pissed of when a WG fucks other guys. Should I feel the same way if an SB fucks other guys? If so, then what's the difference between an SB and a WG?

The difference is fuzzy. I started seeing one WG regularly after she tried to go legit. It was great. But then I found out later that she went back to hooking. I was pretty devastated. I stopped seeing her for a few months. But then I saw her again, and it was like old times. I will see her again, even though she is hooking again. Is she an SB or is she a WG?

Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.Really I think the difference between us is our POV on monogamy. I think it's an unnatural farce and waste of mental and emotional energy. We all want to fuck more than one person (except Elvis. Heheheh) so why do we prevent our partners from doing so? If fucking another guy makes her happy I want that for her. Frankly I hope she is fucking some amazingly handsome studs because good for her — she deserves it.

I don't want to hear about it because yes even I have that instant jealous reaction. But what I don't know won't hurt me and if it makes her happy then rock on. No monogamy for any involved party. That's my philosophy.

Pessimist
08-07-21, 03:18
I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Of the 25 or so SBs that I hooked up with on SA, I had relationships with about half of them. I did feel that while we were seeing each other, we should be kind of exclusive. This, of course, only applied to my home market. When I used SA on the road, then I did not care if those girls saw other guys.

So, what I expected with non-PPM SBs in my home market was something like this: We meet, we totally fall for each other, we see each other regularly, I help her with expenses, she does not fuck other guys, we both get off of SA, but when the relationship fizzles after a few months, then we both go back on SA. Many of my SBs did this without my even asking them to. After we met and fell for each other, she would take her profile off the site and so did I. Then, after a couple of months of awesome raw dogging, traveling, wining and dining, we both get bored and we move on. However, I later discovered that some of these SBs had other profiles and were on other arrangement sites, which kind of pissed me off..Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word hypocrisy in my prior post. Too harsh and unnecessarily judgmental, sorry about that. I totally get your pov. Wanting to have exclusive arrangement, even if it is expected to temporary is absolutely fine. I would only have a problem if the guy intends to keep seeing multiple girls off and on SA but demands exclusivity from his girls. Actually even that is OK if the guy makes it clear to the girl that he intends to see other women but wants her to be exclusive to him. If the girl agrees to it, why not? I remember there were some porn girls who would do scenes only with their boyfriends but the boyfriend would fuck other girls on the screen. I guess it works for them, so it is no one else's business.

As for "is the girl WG if the guy and girl are not exclusive to each other" - that would not be my thought. We are not calling the guy a gigolo or whatever here, why use labels? We all know and think SA girls are not tutes by any stretch. She is not dropping to her knees and sucking 10 strangers' dicks a night for a few hundred dollars each. I think of each of these arrangements as a friends with benefits relation. Imagine a world where sex was not taboo. People fuck because they like fucking. She likes sex, I like sex, I help out a little because I can and she needs it. There is no expectation that I need to keep fucking her again and again because I fucked her once, or twice or a few times.

Elvis 2008
08-07-21, 04:26
I totally understand you guys when you say we should allow SBs to see others SDs. But OTOH, aren't we on SA for some semi-genuine GFE? If we are totally okay with our SBs seeing other SDs, then isn't this the same thing as being with a WG?

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.Yeah, it is always good to be looking out for the definition because so many people try to define a sugar baby / daddy and miss.

Thing is when I started I was married and it would be hypocritical for me to say you cannot have a BF when I am banging the Mrs.

What I told my gals is they could have another SD (but not 10). Maybe some had more. I do not know. I am not sure how much you can control women on this subject. In general though, I do not think women want a whole lot of lovers.

As for what separates WG from SBs, to me, it is the emotional component. With a SB, I want to give money to enhance her life. With a WG, if she wants to take the money I give to her and put it up her nose, I don't care.

With most of my ex SBs, if they called me or I called them, it would be a positive thing. I hope I influenced their life in a positive way.

TjBrazil
08-07-21, 07:53
Very interesting theory. I think ISG's emphasis on the third world gathers guys with a different viewpoint than most guys who mostly see USA Escorts.

I was intrigued by TJBrazil's skepticism about there being USA Nurse's and engineers on the SA site. If a young lady earns $100,000 a year, and also likes sex, why in the world would she not be interested in earning an additional $10,000 of cash income and gifts a year doing something that is not all that time consuming? It happens all of the time. Some of those potential ladies escort, but that requires a lot more effort, upfront cost, and chance of obvious discovery than SA. It is a dream come true for them. They are going on a date. I also did not understand TJBrazil's belief that the gift section of SA somehow substituted for a "date fee", or that it was there to provide additional legal protection. It is designed as an additional gift. It is not illegal in the USA To purchase the time and companionship of an escort, and it is certainly not illegal to pay someone to go on a date. Direct cash for sex is illegal, and soliciting sex for cash is illegal (which is the basis for almost all USA Prostitution arrests, since directly proving that sex occurs is very difficult).A few things. If a girl is making 100 k as a nurse, SA could be a dangerous side hobby to make an extra 10 k. People are killed on tinder Craigslist and I'm assuming SA. It just doesn't make sense to me. 100 k is a lot in pretty much any city unless you're a complete nut with money like Mike Tyson. Why can't the girl have sex with a doctor or someone else that isn't on SA.

Your other point about the gifts being used as cover for illegal prostitution. There has to be Something to it from the owner of SA perspective. There are a lot of dumb johns that are still getting arrested on the street and with online stings when they mention sex for money. Sure paying a escort for her time is legal, but I don't think a lot of men in America got the message, or stings would never produce any arrests. Also I imagine the moderators are constantly flagging and deleting accounts of people that talk about sex for money. Adding the gifts section allows more profits and for even the dumbest johns to stay out of trouble.

Blue Swede
08-07-21, 09:44
I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.Where in Europe is this?

I myself, am living in Sweden. I have SBs in Gothenburg as well as Stockholm, I meet on a regular basis.

I have, when travelling in Europe, met girls in Athens, Berlin, Madrid so far.

WyattEarp
08-07-21, 15:41
Maybe the difference between my view and some of your views is that I did view SBs as longer term arrangements, whereas maybe a lot of you guys look at them as very short term arrangements or as PPMs. But if this is the case, then doesn't this mean that you guys are not really seeking arrangements?

I look at SBs as one notch below GF. Seems like some of you guys may see SBs as one notch above WG. If so, then this just explains our difference in views on the exclusivity issue.

Again, not arguing with you guys. Just think this is an interesting discussion, and so I wanted to share my thoughts for your consideration.It would seem that you are inadvertently stirring up the hornet's nest. This topic comes up here periodically and gets debated. PPM would seem to be enough definition to describe the relationship in contrast to "arrangements".

WyattEarp
08-07-21, 15:58
But we are all different. Like if you super dig cowgirl I think you are in the minority. Most guys like it in and out and to be in charge. Girls like to grind their clit. So cowgirl tends to be the least satisfying for me (and many guys I think). I'll take making out in mish over just about anything else besides BBBJ.Haha! I can't agree more with Steve. I enjoy cowgirl initially. It's great if she has some nice breasts that you can cup. If the girl has a nice ass, reverse is a good view. However, the girl generally start to degenerate into a grinding motion that ain't doing much for little Wyatt other than keeping him warm. That's kind of when after a bit of grinding I say "okay let's try this position".

As a side note, Steve and others can relate to the spectacular view of a Brazilian girl in reverse cowgirl. Tan lines make it even more amazing. Since generally the Brazilian girls I have been with are WGs, they have a certain sexual athleticism. They can stay up on their legs in cowgirl thrusting longer than most women. I remember a Rio spark plug that draped my legs around a bottom corner of the mattress so my feet were on the floor. Then she had me lie back and she mounted with her feet on the floor. She then sprung up and down using the floor for leverage. The girl was 19 and she was demonstrating a modified reverse cowgirl to me. LOL.

Mongerer88
08-07-21, 18:20
A few things. If a girl is making 100 k as a nurse, SA could be a dangerous side hobby to make an extra 10 k. People are killed on tinder Craigslist and I'm assuming SA. It just doesn't make sense to me. 100 k is a lot in pretty much any city unless you're a complete nut with money like Mike Tyson. Why can't the girl have sex with a doctor or someone else that isn't on SA.

Your other point about the gifts being used as cover for illegal prostitution. There has to be Something to it from the owner of SA perspective. There are a lot of dumb johns that are still getting arrested on the street and with online stings when they mention sex for money. Sure paying a escort for her time is legal, but I don't think a lot of men in America got the message, or stings would never produce any arrests. Also I imagine the moderators are constantly flagging and deleting accounts of people that talk about sex for money. Adding the gifts section allows more profits and for even the dumbest johns to stay out of trouble.You make reasonable points, but I still think you bring a lower-end of the scene mentality into it that doesn't always apply.

I repeat a lot with the USA Escorts I see, and many of them started doing this in college and continue to see regulars until they are too old, or have a major life change. I had one tell me and all her regulars that she was leaving the business on a certain date, like June 27, and she replied LOL when I wished her a joyous wedding on June 28. Now granted many of them take down active escort ads and continue to communicate with regulars via email and text.

I simply assumed that SA is used as a powerful tool for relatively wealthier women who like money, gifts and sex to get the occasional bit of extra. I have met many men earning 100 K who simply didn't care about any more than that. I have never met a woman like that. There is always shopping to do. I always stayed at a hotel compensated for by business in Chicago near the magnificent mile. My favorite escort in Chicago would always show up with shopping bags because she said she looked forward to seeing me because it was her favorite neighborhood. She was going to college in Chicago and her parents were college professors in Europe. She needed the money, but she didn't absolutely need the money. I loved her. After I came once in her mouth, she just kept doing a light BBBJ for the next 15 or 20 minutes until I was hard again for covered full service. I never met another girl who could do that successfully. I think she returned to her home country of Greece.

And wealthier women are pretty good about not getting killed. I am sure the rich on SA want dinner at a really nice restaurant first. I doubt that the psycho stalking killer could fake it long enough to convince her to go to a seedy area with him afterward. And he would probably stab himself when he got the dinner bill.

I think that getting "outed" is pretty unlikely. Women go to dinners and hotel convention meeting all the time, even in their hometowns. It isn't the Middle East where they need male chaperones. And street busts and mass classified ad solicitation arrests really have little to do with a Seeking Arrangement or independent escorting with screening. There are Two Americas, and a lot of ISG want to connect them, even though they aren't really connected.

Gfefan
08-08-21, 12:39
Belgium / NL / Germany border area.


Where in Europe is this?

I myself, am living in Sweden. I have SBs in Gothenburg as well as Stockholm, I meet on a regular basis.

I have, when travelling in Europe, met girls in Athens, Berlin, Madrid so far.

Rosebud1
08-08-21, 17:04
I have tried 5 email addresses, cleared cookies, turned off vpn but still get account suspension when trying to signup. Support want a photo or passport copy to open an account. Any ideas?

BrizLad
08-09-21, 09:24
I think that getting "outed" is pretty unlikely. Women go to dinners and hotel convention meeting all the time, even in their hometowns. I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday — after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/.

BrizLad
08-09-21, 09:30
I have tried 5 email addresses, cleared cookies, turned off vpn but still get account suspension when trying to signup. Support want a photo or passport copy to open an account. Any ideas?Have you been a bad boy?

Maybe go to a cafe and use the free wifi. Use a different browser on your laptop or sign up on your phone.

What picture are you using? If it's anything from Facebook it won't work if you are trying to hide. I think they scan facebook, pics and compare to the pic you use. Suggest signing up without a pic or find an online fake pic to get started.

It's also no problems to send them your ID. You are legit right?

Midwestern
08-10-21, 05:18
I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/.Wow, she is hot and well within my type, well, one of my types. Entertaining read. I feel sorry for the guy, but OTOH, if you are financially and professionally successful and just want to marry a super hottie, then why get married at all? Anyway, none of my business.

This gal reminds me of one of my core beliefs when it comes to exes. Once you have had sex with someone, it is easy to have sex with that person again, even years later, or, even after she is later married, or, even if she's an ex-WG and has gone legit. I recently had sex with a ex-WG who is now engaged. In her mind, she is not cheating since she has already had sex with me about two dozen times. I bet for this girl in the NY Post story, most of the johns that she met after she got married were regular clients from before she got married. She probably did not think she was doing anything wrong toward her husband.

Midwestern
08-10-21, 11:31
https://people.com/sports/olympic-runner-suzy-favor-hamilton-describes-working-as-a-las-vegas-call-girl/

You guys in your 50's will remember her. Suzie Favor Hamilton. Some gals hook for the thrills.


I saw this article a few weeks ago, made the news here in Au.

A bitter divorce between a top New York City spine surgeon and his beauty-queen wife was quickly settled Monday after he filed court papers making tawdry accusations that she was moonlighting as a high-priced call girl.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/nyc-surgeon-beauty-queen-wife-settle-divorce-amid-hooker-allegations/.

Mongerer88
08-10-21, 12:50
https://people.com/sports/olympic-runner-suzy-favor-hamilton-describes-working-as-a-las-vegas-call-girl/

You guys in your 50's will remember her. Suzie Favor Hamilton. Some gals hook for the thrills.Yes, great examples by both of you guys. And there was of course the small town Maine Zumba Instructor, who had an incredible work ethic, and taught the women Zumba in the morning, fucked the guys in the afternoon and evening, and did most excellent pornography (alternating a popsicle between her vagina and mouth in one of the most highly rated ones) when not fucking the guys. All while being a single mom. Her downfall was only reporting her meager Zumba instructor income when getting public assistance.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/02/zumba-alexis-wright-prostitution

That all having been said, these cases were of interest to the media (which often opens the investigation by reporting on it before the police are involved, and with Suzy the police never got involved ever). You had an Olympic athlete, a former Miss America contestant, and the ultimate The Whole Town Knew lady. And it's like discussing an airplane crash. You get the impression that there are a lot of airplane crashes if you focus on them. There aren't, compared to the total number of flights.

I still argue that for a typical female nurse or engineer or computer programmer, etc, she can fuck for money, even if married, without getting the interest of the media or law enforcement.

The one example of licensing boards taking an interest in this form of moonlighting is, ironically, lawyers.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-06-02-ct-met-lawyer-prostitution-20130602-story.html

Steve 9696
08-11-21, 02:27
Slight pat on the back for reading my girl and having my options open. So I learned the hard way with Valentina to read my girl. Even tho I felt like she dumped me out of the blue when I go back thru it in my mind there was a point where she got distant like I don't really have time to text you all the time. That kinda thing. I'm sure that's when she got her new SD and prepared to use me and break my heart.

Anyhow long way of saying live and learn. I was flying Mika to a major city again to reprise our fun together. But she was seeming distant not her responsive and bubbly self. So I asked her about it and she said she had some problems and trouble getting off work. Rather than moping I quickly cut her loose and said we'll do it another time.

Quickly hooked up Michelle as the sure thing and she's thrilled but then quickly picked up another SA hottie for a different night. So I've got the sure (but slightly boring?) thing and the super hot wild card. Feeling good about having the girl radar thanks to the school of hard knocks and having the Rolodex and game to fill the void. Excited.

Oneminuteboy
08-11-21, 16:08
I signed up on SA a few months ago but there were many who were obviously escorts. While I chatted up a few good ones, due to personal circumstances (plus annoyed by the escorts), I went off of it. I'm back on now. Chatted with over 40 profiles and weeded down to 4 leads. (10% hit rate; will be weeded down further).

Of the 4 leads worth pursuing, one is a 34 year old Pics looks like a 8; Single mom but just looking for some fun. Another is a 33 year old She was apparently in a serious relationship but broke up about a year ago. She just wants to have a 'man' occasionally. She has even shared her personal name, work place, phone number with me. Meeting her for a first M&G next weekend. Looking forward to it (but a bit wary that this one is coming off of a relationship. Let's see how it goes). Both these don't seem to be expecting anything in return other than taking them out for dinners / weekend getaways but will know more when I do M&G.

On the other end of spectrum, there are a couple of 20/22 y. o claiming to be students. Of course, I will screen them and test if they are really students but they keep directing to conversations around "gifts", "pamper me", "take care of me, I will take care of you" kind of things. Seems to be a significant difference in approach between the two demography.

I'm gradually getting back into the scene and I'm going to try both ends of the spectrum. Will circle back with detailed reports when things happen. I'm taking things slow and easy.

All said and done. I owe it to this forum and guidance from y'll veterans. Your tips / suggestions are much appreciated. Happy to contribute back to the forum.Just read your post that it's partially NL. Sounds familiar to me.

I got lucky finding one that wasn't into it for the money. She wanted to explore her sexuality.

For the Netherlands it can be hard because the majority I talked with didn't want the money and sex on the same day. That stigma of being seen as a hooker.

Then there are the ones that know sex is part of the deal. But ask crazy prices / allowances for dutch standards.

Forgot, also had one that was hesitant at first but she had the assets I liked so I took a risk. Made the investment 150 just for talk during dinner. She felt comfortable after an we made a PPM deal. After a few meets she started talking about getting an allowance or looking for more PPM.

Apparently she talked to a friend who said she got more from her SD. Contact was broken off.

I believe there are a few gems out there in NL but I had better experiences with SB from other countries.

Pessimist
08-11-21, 18:02
Just read your post that it's partially NL. Sounds familiar to me.

I got lucky finding one that wasn't into it for the money. She wanted to explore her sexuality.

For the Netherlands it can be hard because the majority I talked with didn't want the money and sex on the same day. That stigma of being seen as a hooker.

Then there are the ones that know sex is part of the deal. But ask crazy prices / allowances for dutch standards.

Forgot, also had one that was hesitant at first but she had the assets I liked so I took a risk. Made the investment 150 just for talk during dinner. She felt comfortable after an we made a PPM deal. After a few meets she started talking about getting an allowance or looking for more PPM.If you are meeting these girls on SA or some other sugar babe site, regardless of where they are located, they already expect some sugar, don't they? Why else are they on the site?

Perhaps what you are saying is that they want the sugar from you but don't give out sugar back to you?

If they don't like cold cash, can always do gifts. Or say, a portion of her monthly rent (depends on where you are; in my US home city. Not on the coasts. Rents for 1 bedroom apartment are not that high; it is actually a very good deal if a girl would let you fuck her once or twice a week for a month's rent); or you can offer other goodies in exchange for her sugar.

In fact, that is the type of arrangement SA likes best. Makes it look less transactional.

I can understand prices are high in ND. It is a rich country, mostly urban, and women make good money. That is akin to the situation in the coastal cities in the US. Prices are high, selection of women is less than optimal (for me, anyway during my travels). The best cities for me are those in the half a million to a couple of million population cities in the flyover country. People are not so rich, plenty of women in economic distress and agreeable to good deals.

Midwestern
08-12-21, 04:41
Just wanted to add my two cents to the cowgirl discussion. If she grinds forwards and backwards, instead of going up and down, then that is my favorite position.

If you guys are in your mid or late 50's and older, then you might remember that cowgirl used to be considered a sissy position about three decades ago, 1980's, because it was like letting the girl fuck us instead of the other way around. I was kinda in that camp too, until I met this super hot blonde pyscho with huge natural tits. She used to ride me cowgirl so hard, as if my dick was not enough for her. She would grind so hard, trying to get as much dick as possible inside of her, that the next day, the bone above my dick was bruised and very sore. Because of her, I have been searching for girls that can replicate that. I tried teaching it to many girls, but no one can do it the way she did it.

Akibono
08-12-21, 07:28
Just wanted to add my two cents to the cowgirl discussion. If she grinds forwards and backwards, instead of going up and down, then that is my favorite position.

If you guys are in your mid or late 50's and older, then you might remember that cowgirl used to be considered a sissy position about three decades ago, 1980's, because it was like letting the girl fuck us instead of the other way around. I was kinda in that camp too, until I met this super hot blonde pyscho with huge natural tits. She used to ride me cowgirl so hard, as if my dick was not enough for her. She would grind so hard, trying to get as much dick as possible inside of her, that the next day, the bone above my dick was bruised and very sore. Because of her, I have been searching for girls that can replicate that. I tried teaching it to many girls, but no one can do it the way she did it.You are quite correct. It was just a position to show penetration. Funny how that was sexy. I don't like that position because they rarely get the angle correct and it is hard to keep that strong erection. The girl is supposed to pivot her hips. Bouncing is a recipe for disaster. If she wants it hard, I can dish it out in missionary while they dream. I have encountered a few sex crazy girls. Tough to satisfy and their lives are always a mess. But there are an endless supply of guys to solve problems.

WyattEarp
08-12-21, 15:45
Yes, great examples by both of you guys. And there was of course the small town Maine Zumba Instructor, who had an incredible work ethic, and taught the women Zumba in the morning, fucked the guys in the afternoon and evening, and did most excellent pornography (alternating a popsicle between her vagina and mouth in one of the most highly rated ones) when not fucking the guys. All while being a single mom. Her downfall was only reporting her meager Zumba instructor income when getting public assistance.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/02/zumba-alexis-wright-prostitutionMongerer88,

I read this article. It's a perfect example of the USA Approach to sex work. The releasing of names whether there was evidence or not was terrifying. You don't know how, why and when law enforcement is going to take people down. It's a big charade.

The rest of the world simply shrugs when it comes to prostitution.

Pessimist
08-13-21, 18:11
Mongerer88,

I read this article. It's a perfect example of the USA Approach to sex work. The releasing of names whether there was evidence or not was terrifying. You don't know how, why and when law enforcement is going to take people down. It's a big charade.

The rest of the world simply shrugs when it comes to prostitution.There is a difference between commercial establishments and SA type arrangements which are one on ones. If a dude flies under the radar and is careful, should be OK in setting up arrangements.

However, the way they are trying to take down Matt Gaetz and his buddy in FL is a bit scary because I remember reading about sugar daddy sites. However, in their case it was a high profile issue (like Spitzer) and also those two (Gaetz and his buddy, some county honcho) were over the top and too out there.

Akibono
08-14-21, 06:41
There is a difference between commercial establishments and SA type arrangements which are one on ones. If a dude flies under the radar and is careful, should be OK in setting up arrangements.

However, the way they are trying to take down Matt Gaetz and his buddy in FL is a bit scary because I remember reading about sugar daddy sites. However, in their case it was a high profile issue (like Spitzer) and also those two (Gaetz and his buddy, some county honcho) were over the top and too out there.You seem to forget they were dealing with a minor. So, that alone is a felony. Plus, by working together, they were essentially trafficking women. Given, the recent publicity of Epstein, people are very sensitive to that. The SA part was just salacious.

Pessimist
08-14-21, 18:07
You seem to forget they were dealing with a minor. So, that alone is a felony. Plus, by working together, they were essentially trafficking women. Given, the recent publicity of Epstein, people are very sensitive to that. The SA part was just salacious."Minor" - are we talking about the Gaetz case? You are right that I am forgetting the details; actually, I did not follow the case that much. But what struck me, if I remember it correctly, is that the Feds initially got into the case looking at sugarbabe sites? I vaguely remember somehow sugar daddy connection figuring in the case from the beginning. Perhaps I am wrong, or don't remember right as you said.

Trafficking charges can sometimes sound ominous but the reality may be more benign. I am no expert on this subject. But it is not as if Gaetz and his pal were pimps, or playing a role like Romie loverboys; if those girls had been provided transportation, crossed state lines, or passed onto a friend or associate, it may be called trafficking? Not sure, perhaps the experts would know here.

Anyway, anytime SA figures in any high profile case, it makes me jumpy.

KingOfPoverty
08-15-21, 06:02
Over the past year I lurked this thread since post 1 due to C19 situation and never really knew about the SA scene. Posts of all the successes made me bite the bullet with a subscription about 6 months ago to give it a shot on my own. Suffice it to say I've had both successes and failures, but mostly success jaja. Managed to get great GFE from about 10 non-pros with occasional bareback so I am quite pleased with the results. Some of the best lessons that worked for me which I have gathered from the wisdom here are it will take a lot of leads to get viable prospects, not to give money in advance to a meeting no matter how pathetic their sob story is, speak in transparent innuendo about what I want for an arrangement off the SA site to mitigate lack of sex, act as if you are giving a "gift" for what they "need" in life as opposed to direct P4P to avert the anti-**** defense, and chatting up girls about 2 weeks prior to proposed meeting times to prevent conversations from staling. Overall I have been dissatisfied with SA in the US due to the amount of flakiness I have experienced, egregious price gouging over the past months, and underlying legal risks. I essentially have been exclusively utilizing SA in Mexico since I speak intermediate Spanish with fantastic results.

Over the next year, the plan is to make full week-long trips to other foreign cities and utilizing SA to hopefully get the same results I have enjoyed in Mexico. My goal is to get 3-4 short term GF's for the week who will provide the GFE in addition to touring me around their city, which I don't think pros in their respective locations are interested in doing. What are your opinions about the effectiveness of SA in the following cities: Lima Peru, Cartagena Colombia, Madrid Spain, San Jose Costa Rica?

Steve 9696
08-15-21, 14:53
So you guys know I hit a fair number of home runs on Seeking with my due diligence and subsequent awesome charm. (Yeah I'm going with that!) But Kayla is a full on grand slam. Total 9-9. 5 on anyone's scale and all mine!

I ended up cancelling Mika even tho I dig her because she was having some personal issues and the trip was adding stress to her life. She doesn't need that. So I regrouped and came up with Kayla. As usual awesome chat led to awesome in person vibe.

Full report soon but the highlights are that she's staying all weekend. And at our first session Friday night she said if she gets to know me better we can lose the condom (already BBBJ of course). Well I guess she got to know me better that night when we went out because damn if she didn't bareback me a few hours later. And a few times since!

OMG it does not get any better than having a nine for your girlfriend barebacking you for the weekend!

Mongerer88
08-15-21, 15:24
Yes, there are two issues. One, as Akibino mentioned, is that one of the ladies was allegedly a minor at the time. This is the third or fourth high-profile case (one on the east coast and one in Canada) where a minor was presenting herself as being of legal age on S. A. As with the Backpage situation, that increases the relative likelihood that USA Federal law enforcement might take action against S. A. It hasn't happened yet, and may never happen. But it was the existence of minors on the site that was the eventual downfall of Backpage. Some say the difference in advertising will keep that from happening, but the current trove of data that Greenberg gave to the Feds is full of Price Per Meet (PPM) notations, so I am not sure that argument really prevails. The other issue is that Greenberg, Gaetz, and a couple of others (who sent WhatsApp messages saying to leave them the fuck out if this when the federal investigation began because they did not see the alleged minor) communicated about the different ladies and allegedly had the ladies cross state lines on trips. The existence of the alleged minor and the fact that the ladies crossed state lines (along with a coordinated effort) all theoretically make this a federal case. The risk to a typical user is whether the federal government takes action against S. A. If not, then there is little to worry about if everyone a person sees is 18 or older. I suppose having a lady cross state lines matters a little bit, but the Gaetz situation involves coordination among users and more importantly, a high-profile person generating media interest. It has little to do with the typical S. A. User, even if some of his "dates" cross state lines.

And that is true for sex work throughout the United States. The safest technique is S. A, or an independent escort who screens and works in a large city that is relatively sex-work friendly. The arrests in the USA Are almost entirely among the low-end scene where mass classified advertising exists, and little screening is performed. There are a few exceptions, as noted in the links. If you are dealing with a very small town, like in the Maine situation, state and local law enforcement may be dedicated to shutting down the Town Hooker. That is not going to happen in New York City. Agencies are more likely to run into legal trouble, especially if they serve high-profile people like politicians. There is media publicity to be had. Same with massage parlors. There is a lot of bang for the buck when they are watched and raided. And there are differences among cities to consider. Orlando, Phoenix (in fact all of Arizona) and Atlanta (to a lesser extent) are notoriously sex-work unfriendly. They love doing busts of anything visible and releasing customer names. But that simply doesn't happen for New York City, Las Vegas, LOS Angeles, San Francisco, etc.


"Minor" - are we talking about the Gaetz case? You are right that I am forgetting the details; actually, I did not follow the case that much. But what struck me, if I remember it correctly, is that the Feds initially got into the case looking at sugarbabe sites? I vaguely remember somehow sugar daddy connection figuring in the case from the beginning. Perhaps I am wrong, or don't remember right as you said.

Trafficking charges can sometimes sound ominous but the reality may be more benign. I am no expert on this subject. But it is not as if Gaetz and his pal were pimps, or playing a role like Romie loverboys; if those girls had been provided transportation, crossed state lines, or passed onto a friend or associate, it may be called trafficking? Not sure, perhaps the experts would know here.

Anyway, anytime SA figures in any high profile case, it makes me jumpy.

Elvis 2008
08-15-21, 17:00
Trafficking charges can sometimes sound ominous but the reality may be more benign. I am no expert on this subject. But it is not as if Gaetz and his pal were pimps, or playing a role like Romie loverboys; if those girls had been provided transportation, crossed state lines, or passed onto a friend or associate, it may be called trafficking? Not sure, perhaps the experts would know here.

Anyway, anytime SA figures in any high profile case, it makes me jumpy.It should make you jumpy. Human trafficking started out like the war on opioids and is typical in the way of a government buildup. First off, there are posters then article and them more articles than a supposed crisis point and then horribly restrictive legislation. It is the modern equivalent of the fake rape crisis.

Do you know how Steve and I think MW on here recommend serving drinks to women to get them to loosen up? Did you know that makes them rapists? Of course, the fact that no one here discouraged them makes us all rapist sympathizers. Yes, when a woman has alcohol, any amount, she cannot consent to having sex and that means if you are having sex with her, you are raping her. If the woman regrets having sex with you the next morning, that is rape too. This is where the infamous 1 in 4 women have been raped in college line comes from. The feminazis were telling women they may have been raped and not known they were raped.

One woman, who wanted to stop having sex midway through the act, asked her partner to stop, and he kept going. That was rape too, and it got to the point where pundits joked that you have to ask for consent with every thrust.

To me, this is disgusting. It allowed any time a woman had sex and regretted it the ability to claim victim status. This was not helping women be responsible but enabling them to be irresponsible. It also diminished sympathy for women who really were raped.

The other issue that bugged me is that college is scary enough and this was meant to scare people even more. However, it is not college but the supposedly safe home where I have seen the sexual issues that have scarred women the most. Sexual molestation in the home is off the charts, but no one wants to talk about that. Governments are always pushing home and family as heaven even when for so many they are hell.

https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/what-human-trafficking

Every year, millions of men, women, and children are trafficked worldwide – including right here in the United States. Traffickers might use violence, manipulation, or false promises of well-paying jobs or romantic relationships to lure victims into trafficking situations. Traffickers use force, fraud, or coercion to lure their victims and force them into labor or commercial sexual exploitation. The trauma caused by the traffickers can be so great that many may not identify themselves as victims or ask for help, even in highly public settings.

You see how it is the same bullshit all over again. You might be trafficked and not know it. Do you see how violence and "false" promises, whatever that means, are the same sin? Force and "coercion" are the same as well?

I always felt like the feminazi movement was spearheaded by lesbians who wanted to get the best looking women. In recent times, sugar daddies have been taking a run at the prime women, and they needed to be beaten back. So here you have it. The modern day sugar daddy looking for a mutually beneficial relationship is legally the same as a pimp who is running working girls that he beats to a pulp. Blech!

Guys did not believe me when I told them the government was coming after sugar daddies but they are. Hell, the cops and a the made total fools of themselves when they went after billionaire Robert Kraft. They faked a bomb scare to put in video equipment in an oriental spa. They showed Kraft getting a hand job, tipping well, and the woman who gave him the HJ, an Oriental woman, happy to see him and giving him a hug on his arrival. The the tried to say Kraft was supporting trafficking and when they went to the woman and tried to get her to testify, she told them fuck you. The racist bastards in the police department and d's office thought because she was Oriental she was being trafficked but she was an American citizen.

The politically sensitive NFL did nothing with Kraft, but even this high profile boner, has not ended the war on trafficking. To me, whenever the government declares a war on something, you get the hell out of its way. That is when the government is not looking for criminals but looking to take benign Americans and make them into criminals.

And once I saw this war being declared, I decided that I am not playing in the USA. The risks are too high.

Pessimist
08-15-21, 19:53
Yes, there are two issues. One, as Akibino mentioned, is that one of the ladies was allegedly a minor at the time. This is the third or fourth high-profile case (one on the east coast and one in Canada) where a minor was presenting herself as being of legal age on S. A. As with the Backpage situation, that increases the relative likelihood that USA Federal law enforcement might take action against S. A. It hasn't happened yet, and may never happen. But it was the existence of minors on the site that was the eventual downfall of Backpage. Some say the difference in advertising will keep that from happening, but the current trove of data that Greenberg gave to the Feds is full of Price Per Meet (PPM) notations, so I am not sure that argument really prevails. The other issue is that Greenberg, Gaetz, and a couple of others (who sent WhatsApp messages saying to leave them the fuck out if this when the federal investigation began because they did not see the alleged minor) communicated about the different ladies and allegedly had the ladies cross state lines on trips. The existence of the alleged minor and the fact that the ladies crossed state lines (along with a coordinated effort) all theoretically make this a federal case. The risk to a typical user is whether the federal government takes action against S. A. If not, then there is little to worry about if everyone a person sees is 18 or older. I suppose having a lady cross state lines matters a little bit, but the Gaetz situation involves coordination among users and more importantly, a high-profile person generating media interest. It has little to do with the typical S. A. User, even if some of his "dates" cross state lines..Hi M88,

Wow, quite informative. Thank you. Sounds a bit scary because I have used SA in Atlanta and Phoenix, not as much in Orlando yet. What makes you single out those cities? I realize you have a ton of detailed knowledge on this subject, so your insights are quite valuable here. Thanks again.

Mongerer88
08-15-21, 20:53
Hi M88,

Wow, quite informative. Thank you. Sounds a bit scary because I have used SA in Atlanta and Phoenix, not as much in Orlando yet. What makes you single out those cities? I realize you have a ton of detailed knowledge on this subject, so your insights are quite valuable here. Thanks again.Sorry, I didn't mean that S. A. Is a problem in those cities. Any issues with S. A. Will be federal, and there may never be any problems.

Phoenix did a customer name release in the Desert Divas case, and there have been plenty of attacks on agencies there. Back in the landline days, Orlando actually blocked the ability to dial known escort services from hotels. I realize now everyone has cell phones, but that county is still hostile to sex work. And Atlanta sneaks cameras outside of known multi-lady incalls.

You just learn which cities are most hostile over time. Of course even in those cities, they leave independent escorts who screen alone (although as a result of the hostility, the screening is more intense). But none of those cities have ever interfered with S. A.

Pessimist
08-16-21, 00:48
Sorry, I didn't mean that S. A. Is a problem in those cities. Any issues with S. A. Will be federal, and there may never be any problems.

Phoenix did a customer name release in the Desert Divas case, and there have been plenty of attacks on agencies there. Back in the landline days, Orlando actually blocked the ability to dial known escort services from hotels. I realize now everyone has cell phones, but that county is still hostile to sex work. And Atlanta sneaks cameras outside of known multi-lady incalls.

You just learn which cities are most hostile over time. Of course even in those cities, they leave independent escorts who screen alone (although as a result of the hostility, the screening is more intense). But none of those cities have ever interfered with S. A.Got it, thanks. Still, this needs watching. I am not in the camp of Elvis yet, but he has his points. I have taken the view that if you fly under the radar, keep it bland, respectful and cut out all references to sex or ppm and not indulge in sex on the first date etc, you might be OK. And so far it has been, to your point. But you have a good point that regional differences exist, some local LE can be more zealous than in other places and one of the sugarbabes going loco and faking some sort of assault or other stuff to blackmail you, as ELvis is hinting at, is a real scary prospect. Don't know how to put the odds on it. I guess it is one of those things which is unlikely but suddenly one day your luck changes and you are hit with a charge?

Blue Swede
08-16-21, 08:19
Over the next year, the plan is to make full week-long trips to other foreign cities and utilizing SA to hopefully get the same results I have enjoyed in Mexico. My goal is to get 3-4 short term GF's for the week who will provide the GFE in addition to touring me around their city, which I don't think pros in their respective locations are interested in doing. What are your opinions about the effectiveness of SA in the following cities: Lima Peru, Cartagena Colombia, Madrid Spain, San Jose Costa Rica?I have experience from Madrid, Spain. It was a couple of years ago. I had a one week stay and I had prepared meetings in advance. One meeting every evening, starting with a "job interview" in the bar.

If we clicked, we proceeded to the room. .

I must say, I got a quite good hit rate. The fourth day, I cancelled the girl and repeated with the first girl. .

The bar man at the hotel soon understood what was going on. He smiled and showed thumbs up whenever he saw me.

Later in the week, I found out about Pigmalion Bar and spent rest of the time hunting there. Recommended!

BrizLad
08-16-21, 10:29
Over the next year, the plan is to make full week-long trips to other foreign cities and utilizing SA to hopefully get the same results I have enjoyed in Mexico. My goal is to get 3-4 short term GF's for the week who will provide the GFE in addition to touring me around their city, which I don't think pros in their respective locations are interested in doing. What are your opinions about the effectiveness of SA in the following cities: Lima Peru, Cartagena Colombia, Madrid Spain, San Jose Costa Rica?I have had success with this in an Italian city. I did have a short list of SBs up until the final days before my arrival. I had extensive chats with the girls before arrivals which was good to weed out the professionals and the girls that weren't capable of holding conversation for an extended period. With your plan of extended time with the girl, you need to get along well. I arrived in the afternoon, got my hotel setup. The lady arrived after her office job and we had a light snack and a wine before giving her a chance to put her bag back at my room. Well that turned into round 1 as expected. Round 2 was after dinner. We spent the next two days doing the tourist spots, she supplied her car, usually one round of sex in the afternoon, dinner then and she would stay overnight of course. I was paying her meals and expenses as expected. She had a day at work and I toured myself until she joined me after her work again and we had a great farewell evening. I paid her the agreed amount for the four days.

Also just completed a similar arrangement here in Australia on a business trip.

You will need to have a shortlist of 3-4 girls for each of your available nights. SBs are very flaky until you have them in the hand.

I make this my standard MO when doing business travel to any location now.

Mongerer88
08-16-21, 18:52
Got it, thanks. Still, this needs watching. I am not in the camp of Elvis yet, but he has his points. I have taken the view that if you fly under the radar, keep it bland, respectful and cut out all references to sex or ppm and not indulge in sex on the first date etc, you might be OK. And so far it has been, to your point. But you have a good point that regional differences exist, some local LE can be more zealous than in other places and one of the sugarbabes going loco and faking some sort of assault or other stuff to blackmail you, as ELvis is hinting at, is a real scary prospect. Don't know how to put the odds on it. I guess it is one of those things which is unlikely but suddenly one day your luck changes and you are hit with a charge?The good news is that the USA Federal government has an official policy of not charging ordinary Johns or prostitutes in a prostitution case. Unfortunately, they say that anyone engaging a minor is not an ordinary John (even if he didn't know her actual age), so the one thing to be concerned with is that everyone you see is over 18. If they go after Gaetz for the crossing state line thing, that would be a big deviation from that policy, but they might justify it on the grounds that he is a public figure and might have been using campaign funds. But if a prosecution of him occurs, I suspect it will focus on the minor. This has been a pretty public and known policy of the federal government for a long time. If there is a federal government action against S. A. , like there was with Backpage, it won't involve customers, just S. A. Itself. Most view even that as unlikely.

And it is equally unlikely that any state / local law enforcement agency will pursue regular customers / sex workers on S. A. It is simply out of the modus operandi they have developed and utilized for years in prostitution cases. And there is still so much activity at the lower end of the scene that they can make their financial and media quotas.

TjBrazil
08-16-21, 20:19
The good news is that the USA Federal government has an official policy of not charging ordinary Johns or prostitutes in a prostitution case. Unfortunately, they say that anyone engaging a minor is not an ordinary John (even if he didn't know her actual age), so the one thing to be concerned with is that everyone you see is over 18. If they go after Gaetz for the crossing state line thing, that would be a big deviation from that policy, but they might justify it on the grounds that he is a public figure and might have been using campaign funds. But if a prosecution of him occurs, I suspect it will focus on the minor. This has been a pretty public and known policy of the federal government for a long time. If there is a federal government action against S. A. , like there was with Backpage, it won't involve customers, just S. A. Itself. Most view even that as unlikely.

And it is equally unlikely that any state / local law enforcement agency will pursue regular customers / sex workers on S. A. It is simply out of the modus operandi they have developed and utilized for years in prostitution cases. And there is still so much activity at the lower end of the scene that they can make their financial and media quotas.I disagree with your post. If the feds can prove that SA is just a front for illegal prostitution and not straight escorting than they could in theory shut the site down. That is why the site is very strict on how you word things and why they added gifts to the site. We discussed that on another post. They close escort agencies for prostitution. They could do it to SA.

TjBrazil
08-16-21, 20:29
I can see a day where SA will have to ask for the ID of every girl that joins the site to cover their ass for underage girls lying. I think it would be a good thing to be honest. Protects everybody.

Mongerer88
08-16-21, 20:46
I disagree with your post. If the feds can prove that SA is just a front for illegal prostitution and not straight escorting than they could in theory shut the site down. That is why the site is very strict on how you word things and why they added gifts to the site. We discussed that on another post. They close escort agencies for prostitution. They could do it to SA.You missed the whole point of my post.

I agree with you entirely.

But Pessimist seemed to be asking about the effect on users of S. A.

When the federal government goes after a website or an escort agency, it doesn't involve the ordinary customers or workers.

You can look at countless examples including Miami Companions. The federal government has a long precedent on this. They go after owners and participants (those directly helping the owners run the enterprise) in the criminal organization. They don't release customer names. A notable exception exists for any ordinary user involved with someone underage.

It is a different story with state / local law enforcement. They often do go after the ordinary hookers and Johns, and some jurisdictions do release names out of sheer meanness.

That is the differentiation I was making and why I noted that S. A. Has characteristics that make a state / local "bust" unlikely.

It is the federal government that is the concern, and that doesn't involve the users.

Elvis 2008
08-17-21, 00:58
The good news is that the USA Federal government has an official policy of not charging ordinary Johns or prostitutes in a prostitution case. Yes, you were right. That was the case in the past. That is not what they are doing now. LE is targeting men. Period. I think google got tipped off and that is why they got rid of the seeking app.

That the feds are going to carve up seeking IMO is just a matter of time. My guess is they are more likely to bleed it though than kill it off. This is about money and always has been. LE thinks that any money that is gathered illegally is theirs. They have been looking to take the money in prostitution for a long time and made up trafficking as an excuse to do it.

Yes, there is trafficking and white supremacists and people who download child porn but in all those cases, the government uses those issues to carve into our freedom. Using trafficking as an excuse to bleed or take down seeking IMO is a done deal.

Mongerer88
08-17-21, 02:05
Yes, you were right. That was the case in the past. That is not what they are doing now. LE is targeting men. Period. I think google got tipped off and that is why they got rid of the seeking app.

That the feds are going to carve up seeking IMO is just a matter of time. My guess is they are more likely to bleed it though than kill it off. This is about money and always has been. LE thinks that any money that is gathered illegally is theirs. They have been looking to take the money in prostitution for a long time and made up trafficking as an excuse to do it.

Yes, there is trafficking and white supremacists and people who download child porn but in all those cases, the government uses those issues to carve into our freedom. Using trafficking as an excuse to bleed or take down seeking IMO is a done deal.Yes, good point. Asset forfeiture is the biggest part of federal law enforcement in organized sex work stings. In addition to the lack of operating across state lines, independent escorts just don't have enough assets to seize. And another reason the federal government has its policy of not going after regular hookers and Johns. Hell, they don't really even care that much about the owners and operators once the government has its money. Many of the multi-state escort agencies have had the owners plea to deals with little or no jail time as long as they don't contest the asset forfeiture. The Backpage guys are still wanting to fight, but it appears the government is trying to get them to die of old age first.

DramaFree11
08-17-21, 03:48
I can see a day where SA will have to ask for the ID of every girl that joins the site to cover their ass for underage girls lying. I think it would be a good thing to be honest. Protects everybody.I can not believe they are not doing it now. This would eliminate half of the problems with fake profiles and scams immediately. I wish they would implement this yesterday.

BrizLad
08-17-21, 05:35
Yes, you were right. That was the case in the past. That is not what they are doing now. LE is targeting men. Period. I think google got tipped off and that is why they got rid of the seeking app.
I just checked and seeking app is till available in the Google Playstore. I know that it hasn't been in the Apple appstore for a long time.

Elvis 2008
08-17-21, 06:13
I just checked and seeking app is till available in the Google Playstore. I know that it hasn't been in the Apple appstore for a long time.They are taking it off September 1: https://www.androidauthority.com/sugar-daddy-apps-2020846/.

WyattEarp
08-17-21, 15:49
How would the Feds shutdown SA completely if they chose? It seems like after the Feds took down backpage many sex websites were hassled (by their ISP? The sex sites including this one I believe simply domiciled their sites elsewhere.

Now the Feds could make subscription payments from the United States difficult, but they could never eliminate payments entirely. The worst case is they eliminate USA Sugar babies from the site.

Pessimist
08-17-21, 17:37
I can not believe they are not doing it now. This would eliminate half of the problems with fake profiles and scams immediately. I wish they would implement this yesterday.That would also scare many legitimate sugarbabes away. Even if the site assures them that their identity will be kept confidential, they will worry about it. Remember, there is an stigma to the girls as well. How many times have members here and elsewhere equated sugarbabes with WG? Those girls know that.

Pessimist
08-17-21, 17:51
Yes, good point. Asset forfeiture is the biggest part of federal law enforcement in organized sex work stings. In addition to the lack of operating across state lines, independent escorts just don't have enough assets to seize. And another reason the federal government has its policy of not going after regular hookers and Johns. Hell, they don't really even care that much about the owners and operators once the government has its money. Many of the multi-state escort agencies have had the owners plea to deals with little or no jail time as long as they don't contest the asset forfeiture. The Backpage guys are still wanting to fight, but it appears the government is trying to get them to die of old age first.What assets would SA have? Cash? It is just a site / app, there are no meaningful fixed assets. They can levy a huge fine but SA may fight it in courts if the cash they have to forfeit is big enough.

Also, SA is a private company. We don't know their finances. For all we know, they may have been drawing down cash regularly. Depends on how their company is set up and what what their needs are. The main costs for such a business are subscriber acquisition and some ongoing expenses related to product upgrades which can be funded from incoming cash flows. Apps like this can be quite high margin businesses and making tons of money, so the management does not need to keep a lot of cash in the company coffers for future investment. If the owners already took cash out, there is even less asset forfeiture possible. It would be tough to go after the personal assets of equity owners. Yes, if the main owner is also the main manager, feds can go after him using a criminal case perhaps but it is tough to go after the private assets of owners who are not involved operationally and invested in a passive capacity. And we don't even know if the investors are even in the US or are US citizens.

Shutting down would be a bit sad but what can we do! As long as they keep away from me, an individual male subscriber, I am reasonably happy.

Mongerer88
08-17-21, 19:18
How would the Feds shutdown SA completely if they chose? It seems like after the Feds took down backpage many sex websites were hassled (by their ISP? The sex sites including this one I believe simply domiciled their sites elsewhere.

Now the Feds could make subscription payments from the United States difficult, but they could never eliminate payments entirely. The worst case is they eliminate USA Sugar babies from the site.Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that Seeking ever went offshore since it has a dot com suffix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.com

So I would think its website and operations are under USA Jurisdiction. I am not saying they are doing anything wrong, just that like Backpage they have a site that can theoretically be seized and shut down by the USA.

You are correct that most sites went to Europe. But that can make receiving and processing payments more difficult.

Steve 9696
08-17-21, 19:24
How would the Feds shutdown SA completely if they chose? It seems like after the Feds took down backpage many sex websites were hassled (by their ISP? The sex sites including this one I believe simply domiciled their sites elsewhere.

Now the Feds could make subscription payments from the United States difficult, but they could never eliminate payments entirely. The worst case is they eliminate USA Sugar babies from the site.Yeah I suggest we all stop worrying about it and fuck some hotties. If someone is paranoid then get on your horse and collect as many contacts as possible. I for one am not worried. The US Puritans will not suppress sex. There was that huge deal with SESTA / FOSTA and the world was going to end. It did not. P411 is still rocking it out of Canada. T. E. R. went underground but appears back. We will prevail! And in the meantime ima just going to keep it rolling and finding and repeating with awesome girls wherever I go.

BrizLad
08-17-21, 20:35
Anyone tried the other SB apps mentioned in the google article:

Such as (Seeking Arrangement,) Elite, or Spoil?

DramaFree11
08-18-21, 02:56
That would also scare many legitimate sugarbabes away. Even if the site assures them that their identity will be kept confidential, they will worry about it. Remember, there is an stigma to the girls as well. How many times have members here and elsewhere equated sugarbabes with WG? Those girls know that.That would be fine by me. It would eliminate the ones that are not serious, but Steve is correct we should be bagging as many as possible. I am heading to MTY for a short weekend trip, just too much work at the moments.

Akibono
08-18-21, 05:23
Yeah I suggest we all stop worrying about it and fuck some hotties. If someone is paranoid then get on your horse and collect as many contacts as possible. I for one am not worried. The US Puritans will not suppress sex. There was that huge deal with SESTA / FOSTA and the world was going to end. It did not. P411 is still rocking it out of Canada. T. E. R. went underground but appears back. We will prevail! And in the meantime ima just going to keep it rolling and finding and repeating with awesome girls wherever I go.Nothing to worry about. Ashley Madison got hacked and the perps tried to blackmail some users, but the are still operating. The way these sites get killed is by the credit card processors refusing to work with them. I do not see that happening. Too much speculative postings. Get back to girl reports. This link is becoming like other links. Endless speculative arguments over nothing. Unless you have facts, scary speculation is just that. I do not think users have much to fear. Girls have much more to worry about than guys. False claims of rape is hard to prove. In most cases, a guy pressured a reluctant girl and failed to stop when requested. There never was any consent. What Steve does (dinner, dancing, clubs) helps keep you safe since the appearance is like a date and not an escort. Try not to mention ppm unless a girl brings it up. Like Steve said, tuition help sends the message. You got to have some savior fair to play the daddy game and some coin. It is not cheap.

Oneminuteboy
08-18-21, 09:35
I have had success with this in an Italian city. I did have a short list of SBs up until the final days before my arrival. I had extensive chats with the girls before arrivals which was good to weed out the professionals and the girls that weren't capable of holding conversation for an extended period. With your plan of extended time with the girl, you need to get along well. I arrived in the afternoon, got my hotel setup. The lady arrived after her office job and we had a light snack and a wine before giving her a chance to put her bag back at my room. Well that turned into round 1 as expected. Round 2 was after dinner. We spent the next two days doing the tourist spots, she supplied her car, usually one round of sex in the afternoon, dinner then and she would stay overnight of course. I was paying her meals and expenses as expected. She had a day at work and I toured myself until she joined me after her work again and we had a great farewell evening. I paid her the agreed amount for the four days.

Also just completed a similar arrangement here in Australia on a business trip.

You will need to have a shortlist of 3-4 girls for each of your available nights. SBs are very flaky until you have them in the hand.

I make this my standard MO when doing business travel to any location now.

Nice, what was her agreed amount? Just to get an idea of what to expect in Italy.
In Portugal I had 300-450 and a 2 day for 500, with all expenses paid for of course.

Mongerer88
08-18-21, 12:17
What assets would SA have? Cash? It is just a site / app, there are no meaningful fixed assets. They can levy a huge fine but SA may fight it in courts if the cash they have to forfeit is big enough.

Also, SA is a private company. We don't know their finances. For all we know, they may have been drawing down cash regularly. Depends on how their company is set up and what what their needs are. The main costs for such a business are subscriber acquisition and some ongoing expenses related to product upgrades which can be funded from incoming cash flows. Apps like this can be quite high margin businesses and making tons of money, so the management does not need to keep a lot of cash in the company coffers for future investment. If the owners already took cash out, there is even less asset forfeiture possible. It would be tough to go after the personal assets of equity owners. Yes, if the main owner is also the main manager, feds can go after him using a criminal case perhaps but it is tough to go after the private assets of owners who are not involved operationally and invested in a passive capacity. And we don't even know if the investors are even in the US or are US citizens.

Shutting down would be a bit sad but what can we do! As long as they keep away from me, an individual male subscriber, I am reasonably happy.The problem for the owners, and even some employees, is that asset forfeiture extends to some of their assets, including the cash that has been drawn down.

https://reason.com/2019/02/20/using-asset-forfeiture-to-quelch-speech/

Gfefan
08-18-21, 14:16
Earlier, I had mentioned in this forum that I have a couple of SB's lined up after lot of weeding. I met with one of this last week. Here is the FR. I really want to take a moment to all those veterans here. Your tips and tricks worked like a charm.

So, this one. Let's call her Miss and, and I have been chatting for a while. She separated from her BF a year ago and is just looking for spicing up things. So, after many email exchanges, we decide to meet at a restaurant of her choice. She chose a low key one (good sign. She was not trying to take advantage and book some fine dining place) and asks me to meet at a parking lot. We meet there, a quick hug and we walk to the restaurant. Just normal catch up while walking.

At the restaurant, she orders a simple wine but I insisted we take a bottle. Over the food, we chat about many things and I stay away from the crux of the matter. Eventually, after food during dessert, I stretch my hands to hold hers and she responded warm. I gradually work my way up to her elbow feeling her smooth skin. Positive response.

We finish at the restaurant, and start walking back. At that time, she said - "We go to the car, pick up the stuff (I got her a bottle of wine, and cake), you go to your home and I go to mine". I was just thinking "hmmm. OK, but I still might be able to turn this around".

While walking, at some point, I grabbed her back, turned her around, and planted my lips on hers. She responded with a good kiss. Encouraged, I hold her tighter, and let my tongue feel hers. Again, good response. But, she suddenly says "let's take a walk". OK.

We take a bit of a detour and come to some sort of a park and she start talking to me about her past, and what she is looking for. At some point, she herself leaned forward for a kiss and this time it was a lot more passionate (maybe, she liked me listening to her past). Gradually, I move my arms up to feel her breasts. After a while, I gently slid underneath her tops and could feel her nipples erect. Good sign.

But, then again, she wanted to walk back to the car, get the stuff and leave our own ways. I thought it is going to take another date to get her to bed. Once near the car, I offered to drop her off and she hesitantly agreed. While dropping off, we again got into this passionate kissing. This time it was even more passionate from her side and I was encouraged to quickly slip my hands under her skirt. I could feel the wetness over her panties. A bit of warming up and suddenly, I moved my fingers inside her panties. And started fingering her. Very, very good response. It went for a while and she hit a O right there in my car.

Took a few minutes for her to come back down to normal state and says "I want you inside me". I thought she is inviting me home and I was ready but she said "let's drive somewhere". We drive around for a while, find a secluded parking spot. I quickly change into shorts (I had my suitcase in the car prepared for any eventuality). Then, we both climb into the car. Some more foreplay and she quickly pulled my shorts down, took me all the way inside. A good ten minutes of passionate raw dogging in the car. I finished inside her (per her insistence).

It was a great adventure. First time in a car and first time finishing inside someone.

She told me that she has this IUD and that she cannot get pregnant. I hope this is good to believe.

All in all, no expectation from me. I thought I should leave her a gift but then decided not cause any unexpected inflation. Damages were. Dinner bill, wine / cake for her, my gas expenses. That is it.

Post that, we have been exchanging some steamy messages on how we would like to fuck each other the next time we meet. This will be in September. I look forward to it because my next meet, I will make sure it is not in a car but in a proper room with a sturdy bed. And I will fuck the nuts out of her.

Bdb013
08-18-21, 20:31
Gents,

I am headed to Guadalajara next week and have been working SA for a couple weeks. I have lined up the most beautiful chicas. Ages from 18-26. All have agreed to just about anything I asked. Prices ranging from $125 to $150 (2500-3000 Mexican pesos).

I have worked pretty hard on getting this lined up. It takes a lot of work and patience, but the results are wonderful. For those thinking the $99 price tag for SA is too high, trust me when I say it is worth every penny in the quality of women you can find. Everyone I have found on SA has been beautiful university students. I have made many trips across the globe and SA is my number one go to.

Midwestern
08-19-21, 01:28
Good job, man. Please continue posting and reporting.


Earlier, I had mentioned in this forum that I have a couple of SB's lined up after lot of weeding. I met with one of this last week. Here is the FR. I really want to take a moment to all those veterans here. Your tips and tricks worked like a charm.

So, this one. Let's call her Miss and, and I have been chatting for a while. She separated from her BF a year ago and is just looking for spicing up things. So, after many email exchanges, we decide to meet at a restaurant of her choice. She chose a low key one (good sign. She was not trying to take advantage and book some fine dining place) and asks me to meet at a parking lot. We meet there, a quick hug and we walk to the restaurant. Just normal catch up while walking.

At the restaurant, she orders a simple wine but I insisted we take a bottle. Over the food, we chat about many things and I stay away from the crux of the matter. Eventually, after food during dessert, I stretch my hands to hold hers and she responded warm. I gradually work my way up to her elbow feeling her smooth skin. Positive response.

We finish at the restaurant, and start walking back. At that time, she said - "We go to the car, pick up the stuff (I got her a bottle of wine, and cake), you go to your home and I go to mine". I was just thinking "hmmm. OK, but I still might be able to turn this around".

While walking, at some point, I grabbed her back, turned her around, and planted my lips on hers. She responded with a good kiss. Encouraged, I hold her tighter, and let my tongue feel hers. Again, good response. But, she suddenly says "let's take a walk". OK.

We take a bit of a detour and come to some sort of a park and she start talking to me about her past, and what she is looking for. At some point, she herself leaned forward for a kiss and this time it was a lot more passionate (maybe, she liked me listening to her past). Gradually, I move my arms up to feel her breasts. After a while, I gently slid underneath her tops and could feel her nipples erect. Good sign.

But, then again, she wanted to walk back to the car, get the stuff and leave our own ways. I thought it is going to take another date to get her to bed. Once near the car, I offered to drop her off and she hesitantly agreed. While dropping off, we again got into this passionate kissing. This time it was even more passionate from her side and I was encouraged to quickly slip my hands under her skirt. I could feel the wetness over her panties. A bit of warming up and suddenly, I moved my fingers inside her panties. And started fingering her. Very, very good response. It went for a while and she hit a O right there in my car.

Took a few minutes for her to come back down to normal state and says "I want you inside me". I thought she is inviting me home and I was ready but she said "let's drive somewhere". We drive around for a while, find a secluded parking spot. I quickly change into shorts (I had my suitcase in the car prepared for any eventuality). Then, we both climb into the car. Some more foreplay and she quickly pulled my shorts down, took me all the way inside. A good ten minutes of passionate raw dogging in the car. I finished inside her (per her insistence).

It was a great adventure. First time in a car and first time finishing inside someone.

She told me that she has this IUD and that she cannot get pregnant. I hope this is good to believe.

All in all, no expectation from me. I thought I should leave her a gift but then decided not cause any unexpected inflation. Damages were. Dinner bill, wine / cake for her, my gas expenses. That is it.

Post that, we have been exchanging some steamy messages on how we would like to fuck each other the next time we meet. This will be in September. I look forward to it because my next meet, I will make sure it is not in a car but in a proper room with a sturdy bed. And I will fuck the nuts out of her.

Midwestern
08-19-21, 01:45
Do you know how Steve and I think MW on here recommend serving drinks to women to get them to loosen up? Did you know that makes them rapists? Of course, the fact that no one here discouraged them makes us all rapist sympathizers. Yes, when a woman has alcohol, any amount, she cannot consent to having sex and that means if you are having sex with her, you are raping her. If the woman regrets having sex with you the next morning, that is rape too. This is where the infamous 1 in 4 women have been raped in college line comes from. The feminazis were telling women they may have been raped and not known they were raped.
.Hi Elvis,

In the United States, if a girl voluntarily gets drunk with a guy, and then she voluntarily has sex with him, then this is rape? Do you have any documentation that this constitutes rape? I am not trying to pick a fight. I honestly want to know, for my future reference. My understanding is that a woman has to show some proof that she resisted. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Thanks.

Steve 9696
08-19-21, 01:58
Hi Elvis,

In the United States, if a girl voluntarily gets drunk with a guy, and then she voluntarily has sex with him, then this is rape? Do you have any documentation that this constitutes rape? I am not trying to pick a fight. I honestly want to know, for my future reference. My understanding is that a woman has to show some proof that she resisted. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Thanks.MW dude you have failed to catch Elvis's extraordinarily (too?) subtle sarcasm. This was tongue in cheek — tho hard to tell. But I know what he thinks about ultrafemism and me too in Pussy Prison. He was just joshing.

Midwestern
08-19-21, 01:59
So, you guys may recall that I am paying rent for my SB. I can see her almost any time that I want. I never do PPM with her. In addition to rent, I have bought cosmetics and clothes for her at her request. So, this seemed like an ideal arrangement.

Here's an update.

This past Saturday was Chinese Valentine's Day. I had no idea. And naturally, my SB got pissed that I did not give her a present or even saw her that day. I said that I was busy. I guess my blowing it off provided a catalyst for her to blow off some built up resentment toward me. She started saying that we only meet for sex, and that I never take her out to a restaurant or to the movies. But I do not want to do these things with her. Maybe if I can drink with her, then I would, but my mongering has to be done during the day, and I do not day drink.

So, she left town and is in her hometown now. She said she will never come back and that she is looking for a new boyfriend in her hometown.

I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.

DramaFree11
08-19-21, 02:31
So, you guys may recall that I am paying rent for my SB. I can see her almost any time that I want. I never do PPM with her. In addition to rent, I have bought cosmetics and clothes for her at her request. So, this seemed like an ideal arrangement.

Here's an update.

This past Saturday was Chinese Valentine's Day. I had no idea. And naturally, my SB got pissed that I did not give her a present or even saw her that day. I said that I was busy. I guess my blowing it off provided a catalyst for her to blow off some built up resentment toward me. She started saying that we only meet for sex, and that I never take her out to a restaurant or to the movies. But I do not want to do these things with her. Maybe if I can drink with her, then I would, but my mongering has to be done during the day, and I do not day drink.

So, she left town and is in her hometown now. She said she will never come back and that she is looking for a new boyfriend in her hometown.

I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.Yep, PPM keeps them in check. I have tried monthly a few times. It never works. You would think it make the arrangement better, but it is usually the opposite.

Steve 9696
08-19-21, 03:19
So, you guys may recall that I am paying rent for my SB. I can see her almost any time that I want. I never do PPM with her. In addition to rent, I have bought cosmetics and clothes for her at her request. So, this seemed like an ideal arrangement.

Here's an update.

This past Saturday was Chinese Valentine's Day. I had no idea. And naturally, my SB got pissed that I did not give her a present or even saw her that day. I said that I was busy. I guess my blowing it off provided a catalyst for her to blow off some built up resentment toward me. She started saying that we only meet for sex, and that I never take her out to a restaurant or to the movies. But I do not want to do these things with her. Maybe if I can drink with her, then I would, but my mongering has to be done during the day, and I do not day drink.

So, she left town and is in her hometown now. She said she will never come back and that she is looking for a new boyfriend in her hometown.

I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.Yeah the "totally non transactional" arrangement sounds good in theory but fails in practice. One party or the other tries to squeeze more value out and it eventually tanks. Easier to get a mismatch on what is arranged. You think you arranged sex and she thinks she arranged a boyfriend.

A lot of this stems from information asymmetry. You know the game and she does not. She's making bad assumptions never having played SB before. The girl I just saw was an amazing SB because she's done it before and knows she's supposed to be my awesome girlfriend and knows how to make her man happy (and I don't just mean sex). She also had a relationship she allowed to get beyond SB and more real and then it went to shit. Got to just keep it straight up. That's best.

Steve 9696
08-19-21, 03:29
Short story? Damn I've found a keeper. Damn near in love. She's every bit a 9. 5 (9 face 10 body) and barebacking me while professing her love for my cock. Damn. What a find.

So for my trip to a large American city I was planning on flying Mika. We'the agreed a plan and I'the bought a ticket (not too expensive). But as the date neared, Mika seemed a bit distant. She'the been in a car wreck and was taking some time off work (no lie. I saw the pics. Wow. And I have been in her car. This was legit.). So she was stressed about having to take another day off work. So I let her off the hook and cancelled. (Maybe we can use the ticket another time. Doesn't matter. Just the cost of doing business. LOL.).

Of course I have Michelle, local at my destination city, who is a nice girl and very pretty at only $300. But she's just not that fun. She has been cleared to drink (medically. At our first meet up she was stone cold sober and you could tell she was in her head) so I set her up for Saturday since she'the been wanting to see me. And then I surfed SA and came up with Kayla and locked her in as my fave for Friday. I figure I can repeat with whoever I prefer on Sunday. I set things up this way often but never with a girl I know like Michelle. So this was a first (don't recommend — see below).

Kayla is a real beauty but honestly looks like she could be a bit thicker and hiding some fucked teeth in her pics, because she never shows them. This could not be further from the truth — fucking iPhone wide angle lens! I most often find truly pretty girls look better in person and that was the case here. Her body is absolute perfection (I can't find anything I'the change. Not one thing. Does that make her a ten? Maybe.) and she has a gorgeous face with high cheekbones, full lips, and a beautiful smile.

I send an Uber and she arrives at our dinner date in a skin tight dress that shows off her amazing no-bra see cups and tight tummy. OMG. She's the real deal. We have some epic food and the conversation flows well. She'the been pretty flirty during chat and same here. It's clear pretty quickly that going to the hotel is on for sure.

So we have great food and two glasses of wine — she finished the first one in about 2 minutes flat. Think she was nervous. Heheheh. After dinner we stroll hand in hand down the boulevard to the hotel. A short walk. Strategically chosen of course. She's been an SB before and doesn't seem at all phased being "on display" with a much older man.

In the room it's straight to the kissing which is nice and open mouthed but not DFK to start. Pretty quickly she says she has a surprise for me and pulls some lingerie out of her purse and heads to the bathroom and returns in all her OMG-glory! Truly a ten body. She in fact didn't wear a bra the entire weekend — and her tits are big. Solid Cs for sure on a petite frame. But fuck do they sit up high and tight! No assistance needed!

So back to the kissing which is getting more passionate and ends up DFK the rest of the trip. After a bit she pushes me to sitting on the bed and and gets my pants down around my ankles for a great BBBJ. Really nice — thick lips — amazing in and out. She'll mix it up a bit later.

After enjoying that for a while I get naked and she she suggests a condom to start getting down. But I say I have a better idea and push her on her back for some DATY. I usually work my way down but for some reason I went face first into that sweet pussy and she is wet on arrival — turns out she loves sucking dick and it gets her instantly wet.

Easy clit to find and work plus some gspot fingering. So sloppy wet inside. I fucking love that. She has a great time, cooing and grinding, but doesn't quite get there. And after maybe 10 minutes we move to sex. She says "sorry about the condom babe but maybe when I know you better we can get rid of it". That sounds lovely — yes I hope so — but I don't expect it. I never push for it.

So I suit up and dive in. Maybe it's just a nice story but she professes to love how thick my dick is and the curve of it. And fuck she is tight tight. We end up fucking 5 or 6 times over the weekend and often it's a minute or two to get the whole thing in. Had this with Chloe but not many girls are this tight. She has the 10 body down to the last detail!

Damn we have a good fuck in a lot of positions and she finishes me by mouth. Me on my knees kneeling near her head, my fingers in her pussy — one of my faves. And as I CIM she lets some of my cum escape the corner of her mouth and run down her face. Super sexy.

OK. I am a happy man. But this is just the start of the night. Because we going to go out and get in some trouble. We start at a speakeasy where you have to know the exact location of this hidden door and the code. Great fun and great cocktails. She's getting pretty lit — she doesn't drink that often. (Pro tip: Find a speakeasy to take your girl to. Did this with Mika also. They have never been and really love it. The girls who are true SB look to their Daddies to introduce them to new experiences and this is a great one.).

At the speakeasy she confesses she's Bi and at some point we have the wild idea of going to a strip club. Its her idea really and she knows where to go! Wow we have an off the hook time there. Grab a table right up at the stage. She is the best looking girl in the place including all the dancers who are fit and pretty. She loves tipping them with my copious money and is not shy about feeling their ass or titties if she likes them. Oh and it's a full nude club. Pussy everywhere. It's pretty sexy.

After a ton of that we get back to the room maybe 1 AM or so and it's a wild ride from there. Of course some epic BBBJ but then I am on my back — hard dick pointing the ceiling — and next thing I know she mounts up RCG raw! Yep I guess she knows me better now because she's barebacking the hell out of me. LOL. AMAZING doing it raw with her — and no lube required even tho she is sooooo tight. She gets sopping wet sucking dick so it's all natural baby!.

After a few position changes and maybe some more BJ, eventually in mish I pull out and unload on her tummy. Damn that was awesome. Who the fuck fucks you, takes you to the strip club and fucks you again, bareback! I like this girl. She's hot chick dynamite.

Of course she sleeps over with lots of nice cuddling and spooning but eventually we zonk out and sleep like the dead. Next morning we part ways because I have Michelle later that day. But for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is Kayla is hot AF and fucking me bareback, it makes more sense for her to just stay the weekend.

So I cancel Michelle. This is where it's not good to have a girl you know as part of a multiple girl weekend. I know her and she's a quality person. And it's shitty to cancel same day when I know she's looking forward to our date. But she's a champ and very nice about it. I send her $100 because I feel bad. But I got over it pretty fast being locked up w my goddess for 3 days. LOL.

So back with Kayla we get her stuff and she moves in for the weekend. Only on Seeking baby. We have some nice lunch and we are just BFGFing it. Afternoon I have some stuff I have to do but I am back before dinner and we can then get in trouble later that night.

We do some shopping and I get to play IRL SD buying her some things. It's fun. And she's truly appreciative. One of the things I like best about her is she seems to have genuine fun and is genuinely thankful when I do something nice for her. Even after our third dinner she says "thank you for dinner baby". She's genuinely nice the way she treats you. She doesn't have that "you owe me" vibe at all. It feels very mutual.

Dinner is awesome and she wears another form fitting skin tight dress. After dinner it's on to round 1 of epic bareback sex. I've shown her the position where she's on her back at the edge of the bed and I'm fucking her standing up. This feels amazing to both of us and I don't get tired this way. So we go at it hard and heavy for a long time. We do regular cowgirl for the first time and wow those tits. Hands on massage — you bet. Can't recall but I think I CIM.

Going to be hard to replicate the speakeasy and strip club but we going to try. We go to another speakeasy but it's closed for a private party. But it's in a part of town that is loaded with young people and loud happening bars and clubs. Not really our vibe but we have a really strong drink at one of the clubs and that gets us headed the right direction.

So we find another club that is supposedly like a speakeasy vibe without being one. Damn we loved this place. You could tell from minute one that everyone was down for fun and having a blast. Dancing and grinding and just an amazing energy level.

You know how my glass is always half full and I go with the flow? Well here goes again. Most people are standing but there are little two person tables around the perimeter. When we go to sit at one we see it has a Reserved tag on it. But I say WTF let's sit here anyhow. Shortly a guy comes over and says "oh this is my table. But it's fine if you want to join us". Well damn that's nice of you and yup we will. A few minutes later he has the waitress bring more glasses and he's pouring us champagne from the bottle he's got! Glass half full baby. New friends everywhere!

We order some more drinks as well and it just gets better and better. We've agreed to not get wrecked like last night (she was hungover bad) so we stick to a four drink max and lots of water. It's cute how we are kinda on this mission together to get the perfect buzz without overdoing.

Kayla is dancing in her seat but she's a bit shy. When I go dance in front of her to lure her out, she busts out laughing! Only hurts for a second. She's just transparent, which I love, and I know I look like an idiot at my age but I love to dance and have no fucks to give. I am undeterred and after several more laughing fits she's up and dancing. And we dance nonstop for another couple hours! It was suuuuuch fun. Haven't danced like that since Thifany in 2018. Wow. And damn SHE had a blast. Feel good about that. I always want my girl smiling and laughing (and fucking of course). Just my DNA.

At some point there are ten girls up on the raised bar platform in the middle of the club. Not strippers. Just girls gone wild! At one point Kayla points out a particularly drunk girl with no panties hiking up her skirt while she dances -- nicely shaved pussy full on getting some fresh air! Wow. My kinda place.

Back to the room a bit earlier tonight but not much. Prob near 1 again. And more epic sex. I have serious whiskey dick (partly from having fucked four times in less than 24 hrs!) so we go on forever. All the positions. Lots of mish DFK. She honestly seems to love to fuck and not be faking it. She sometimes pulls my face down to hers to passionately make out. Love this. Lots of edge of the bed fucking — both doggie (her fave) and modified mish (my fave). But I can't pull a genie out of the bottle.

Eventually we start to crash and cuddle. Damn I want to cum but just can't. Clearly she's given it the old college try but been defeated. Finally I get up the nerve to tell her I know a sure way to finish. Thinking she'll prob shut me down and say go to sleep, I tell her that if she licks and sucks my balls while I jack off I will def cum.

What a trooper — she says "sure baby" and pulls back the sheets and down she goes. Some really nice BLS with those plump lips and thick tongue. A bit of harmonica. A few full on mouth pumps and then BLS while I jack and damn I shoot out a nice load. Then we crash like big dogs.

Day 3 of our little adventure has us looking for late breakfast but settling on some amazing beachside tacos for lunch instead. And a pretty lazy day by the pool and just hanging out.

Given our prior debauchery we plan an early dinner and evening. After dinner we enjoy a couple cocktails in some comfy chairs with an amazing view. And we head to the room around 9. Strangely I have been completely satisfied and am happy to have just one more round of sex and not even have morning sex (she's not a morning person).

So we get back to the room and enjoy some simply dreamy passionate and meaningful sex — the kind you need a bit of a relationship to have. I can go forever of course and she is taking advantage of that. She tells me several times "god I just love your dick" — driving me hard and deep and basically fucking me to death! When I feel I might come I pull out and change position and we build again.

Just as a reminder how much I love to kiss (and she says she does too but only guys who kiss well and I do. Aww maybe another white lie but I'll take it.) Anyhow, I am fucking her raw at the edge of the bed and I lean over and start DFKing while I fuck her slow and damn I have to pull out right away. Just kissing her sent me immediately to the edge, ready to cum! So I pull out and have to STOP KISSING or ima going to blast. No lie. If I keep kissing even tho I am not actively fucking I am going to shoot a load! But caught it just in time.

I remember the cowgirl was super awesome. Not usually my fave position except for the tits access. But she is having such a great time. She is just cowgirling like her life depends on it. Grabbing the headboard and just fucking me like there is no tomorrow. And I've got those big beautiful tits in hand making big soft circles and just adding to the experience for both of us.

At some point I have to pull out for a bit or I will cum inside her — almost never happens in cowgirl, but bareback and her fucking me non-stop for so long I finally get there. I let the feeling pass and back in I go. I know she is enjoying using me as her fuck toy as she just keeps on fucking on and on. She does ACG for a while — way longer than most girls — she's in shape but eventually tires.

Finally she rolls off and goes for BJ between my legs (my fave) and does a brilliant job of BLS and harmonica. I think she's expecting me to jack off like last night but I know I can finish in her mouth because she has me so worked up with the BLS. And I'the prefer that. So I ask her to put my dick in her mouth which she gladly does. And sure enough some lovely in and out and bam bam bam CIM.

Again the sleep of the dead. A nice breakfast but a flight to catch. What an amazing weekend. Tons of sex. Bareback. But so much more than that. The time on the town was absolutely legendary. Just one of those nights would have been a memory forever. But we killed it night after night.

Damn she's one of my ATFs for sure. Can't wait to see her again.

Midwestern
08-19-21, 08:07
I read every word of it. You the man! I'm a little jealous of your Kayla, but I should not be selfish. I have been having fucking a lot lately.

BrizLad
08-19-21, 08:32
I am beginning to think PPM is better than a real arrangement. The latter just takes up a lot of time and energy.I have been leaning this way this year, actually since Jan 2020. Over time my girl lost the connection between what she is actually getting paid for. I have no shortage of friends, girls, work colleagues with whom I can socialise, laugh, chat and have a good time. What I need is a hosting SB.

PPM since then has been just fine, whether the girl wants to call it that or not is another topic. For some I might call it an allowance but it is still only being paid after the weekly fucking.

I had one old flame contact me last week, offering a Friday catch up (great) and asking if I could pay her early Tuesday. She had bills due. I have seen her multiple times, I like her, she gives good BBBJ and is a beauty. But I held true to my principles explained that I would see her Friday. That all went to my plan and she knows how to get money in future.

BL.

Steve 9696
08-19-21, 14:25
I wonder if you guys get this too. I only get to get with a great SB every 6-8 weeks (might get some at home with a less satisfactory one and it's stressful because it's local). But what I found after Kayla (and experienced before) is that time with her completely reset my world view. I was no longer stressed out and grumpy — I felt absolutely at peace and right with the world. Total reset.

I am not sure how much of that is the sex, how much the girlfriend, and how much just letting loose. But damn, work and home life stress is all kinda meh right now — no big deal. Not sure how long the post-Kayla euphoria lasts but ima going to ride it while I can. Anyone else get this?

Elvis 2008
08-20-21, 04:31
Hi Elvis,

In the United States, if a girl voluntarily gets drunk with a guy, and then she voluntarily has sex with him, then this is rape? Do you have any documentation that this constitutes rape? I am not trying to pick a fight. I honestly want to know, for my future reference. My understanding is that a woman has to show some proof that she resisted. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Thanks.MW,

I wish I could be more clear on this. The first of the college rape trends was in Ms. Magazine in 1986. They came up with a survey showing that one in four women has been raped number not pointing out that 73 percent of the "raped" women did not consider themselves raped and that 42 percent of women repeated with their "attacker". This was where the notion if you have any drinks you cannot consent and are raped.

This notion has been watered down in recent years as people have figured out what bullshit that number was. Look at this stat: In 2012, Detroit's combined rate for all four violent felonies that make up the FBI's violent-crime index — murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault — was 2 percent. The rape rate was 0.05 percent. And yet, despite an alleged campus sexual-assault rate that is 400 times greater than Detroit's, female applicants are beating down the doors of selective colleges in record numbers.

Thing is with a case like Duke lacrosse you had a prosecutor pushing an agenda that had been lied about for years. So now most states have backed away from the notion that any drinking means she cannot consent and have come up with the notion that drinking by itself does not mean rape but signs of impairment does.

See the link: http://blog.simplejustice.us/2014/02/12/the-crime-of-regret/#more-19995.

If you asks what impaired means, you are not alone. Adding even more fuel to the fire is the fact that when drinking is involved both men and the women are drinking. Yes, it is the theater of the absurd.

The thing the feminists have been pushing seems to have been found out. As is shown, the knife wielding rapist scenario is very rare. Two people get drunk, and the women agrees to sex or does not say no to sex but is really wasted and regrets it in the morning is by far the most common type of college "rape".

The law is gray and given we have some whack job feminists saying any sex is rape, https://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/.

People have taken a much harder line on things. In the end, it is what a jury decides and if enough of them are skeptical of rape, and I think they are now, DAs are not going to prosecute rape cases.

But still remember the larger point. If not for the ridiculous fanning of the rape flames, the Duke lacrosse case never happens.

My warning is not about rape. What I am trying to say is that the government is pushing trafficking, another rare occurrence, like it is happening all the time and citing bullshit inflated stats to justify their doing so. Like rape does happen, trafficking does too, but it is rare and the point is not to save women but to fleece men financially.

What government is doing is saying that paying women for sex is encouraging trafficking and therefore is one in the same. They are trying to make a victimless crime into one where there are victims.

I get what you want, clarity on what is breaking the law and what is not. Sadly, it does not work that way. Some DAs are so unethical that if you step on an ant and the the thinks that will advance your career, he would charge you with murder. DAs have absolute immunity, and I hate that, and they can charge you with whatever the fuck they want to, and there is nothing you can do except pay for a lawyer and beat them in trial. In that case, even if you win you lose.

And DAs are at high alert right now with charging men with sex related crimes. It was not like this 5 years ago but now men are being arrested in the hundreds of thousands for doing the same thing they did five years ago and no one cared.

I think it will die down, but it is crazy right now here in the sex prison. That is all I am saying.

BrizLad
08-20-21, 04:52
I wonder if you guys get this too. I only get to get with a great SB every 6-8 weeks (might get some at home with a less satisfactory one and it's stressful because it's local). But what I found after Kayla (and experienced before) is that time with her completely reset my world view. I was no longer stressed out and grumpy I felt absolutely at peace and right with the world. Total reset.

I am not sure how much of that is the sex, how much the girlfriend, and how much just letting loose. But damn, work and home life stress is all kinda meh right now no big deal. Not sure how long the post-Kayla euphoria lasts but ima going to ride it while I can. Anyone else get this?SB + long distance from home life = extreme happiness.

While I can enjoy 'time' with a SB in my home town, it's just so much better when you can walk around and do things together.

Akibono
08-20-21, 07:56
I wonder if you guys get this too. I only get to get with a great SB every 6-8 weeks (might get some at home with a less satisfactory one and it's stressful because it's local). But what I found after Kayla (and experienced before) is that time with her completely reset my world view. I was no longer stressed out and grumpy I felt absolutely at peace and right with the world. Total reset.

I am not sure how much of that is the sex, how much the girlfriend, and how much just letting loose. But damn, work and home life stress is all kinda meh right now no big deal. Not sure how long the post-Kayla euphoria lasts but ima going to ride it while I can. Anyone else get this?Your brain is flush with serotonin and oxytocin. These make you feel good. The best drugs, but they wear off. They also block some of the fear and insecure emotions. Girls that seem genuine do that. In some ways, that is why divorce hurts so much. That was an epic field report. A trifecta of sex. I too love sex and kissing. The longer the better. It is less about the orgasm than feeling satisfied. Unless a girl is really into the sex, if you try to prolong the session, you risk not getting an orgasm or be satisfied before she calls it quits. But a woman that finds it enjoyable and feels secure can fuck for a very long time and many times. I find these girls rare gems. The smart ones can manipulate you because you feel so good. But it is like being close to the fire. You might get burned, but it feels so good. Looking for that SB the can make me blow my load and make me hard again for the extended session.

Oneminuteboy
08-20-21, 18:35
Might see a new influx of girls with Onlyfans restrictions going up in October.

WyattEarp
08-20-21, 19:18
MW,

I wish I could be more clear on this. The first of the college rape trends was in Ms. Magazine in 1986. They came up with a survey showing that one in four women has been raped number not pointing out that 73 percent of the "raped" women did not consider themselves raped and that 42 percent of women repeated with their "attacker". This was where the notion if you have any drinks you cannot consent and are raped.

This notion has been watered down in recent years as people have figured out what bullshit that number was. Look at this stat: In 2012, Detroit's combined rate for all four violent felonies that make up the FBI's violent-crime index murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault was 2 percent. The rape rate was 0.05 percent. And yet, despite an alleged campus sexual-assault rate that is 400 times greater than Detroit's, female applicants are beating down the doors of selective colleges in record numbers.

Thing is with a case like Duke lacrosse you had a prosecutor pushing an agenda that had been lied about for years. So now most states have backed away from the notion that any drinking means she cannot consent and have come up with the notion that drinking by itself does not mean rape but signs of impairment does..I hope members don't find the social commentary impertinent. I find it fascinating.

In my USA College days, it seems like we had two different kinds of sexually active girls. There were the young, monogamous girls who would convince themselves that they were in a serious relationship with the "one". Even if they dated a couple guys that were "the one", they were monogamous from "one" to another "one" and would try to be married by their mid-20's. These are probably the women who know their numbers and foolishly hope to keep that number to one hand and at most two hands.

Then there were the American girls who liked to party and have multiple partners. These are the girls who are described in Elvis 2008's post. They would go to a college party, drink to loosen up their inhibitions and wander off with a guy back to his room. If you asked them about it the next day, they would likely feign regret. If challenged, they could say they were taken advantage by the young man.

Then these young women would go out and do the same thing again in a short time. These are also the college women you wanted to run into traveling through Europe or wherever. With a great degree of anonymity secured by being abroad and traveling with a few like-minded female friends, these were the American college girls you wanted to meet on a trip.

Since I never wanted to be the "one" in my early twenties even if it was really just a bit of a charade, I obviously enjoyed to party with the latter described women. Many college guys tried to know who these girls were as opposed to the monogamous, serious relationship types.

Elvis 2008, I believe on the big campuses the feminazis and the right wing Christian students have joined up on some issues pertaining to sex and alcohol.

Travv
08-20-21, 19:28
Because voluntary alcohol consumption – even to the point of severe impairment – does not meet New York's standard for mental incapacity, Manhattan the Cy Vance had said prosecutors in his office have declined taking some cases where alleged rape victims were drunk. . . "When the issue was first brought to our attention by NBC, the governor and myself said this was an issue we were going to solve," Cuomo spokesman Rich Azzopardi said.

In other news, Governor Cuomo is resigning due to multiple sexual harassment claims brought by New York women against him. . . Wonder if they were drunk when he did that?


MW,

I wish I could be more clear on this. The first of the college rape trends was in Ms. Magazine in 1986. They came up with a survey showing that one in four women has been raped number not pointing out that 73 percent of the "raped" women did not consider themselves raped and that 42 percent of women repeated with their "attacker". This was where the notion if you have any drinks you cannot consent and are raped.

This notion has been watered down in recent years as people have figured out what bullshit that number was. Look at this stat: In 2012, Detroit's combined rate for all four violent felonies that make up the FBI's violent-crime index murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault was 2 percent. The rape rate was 0.05 percent. And yet, despite an alleged campus sexual-assault rate that is 400 times greater than Detroit's, female applicants are beating down the doors of selective colleges in record numbers.

Thing is with a case like Duke lacrosse you had a prosecutor pushing an agenda that had been lied about for years. So now most states have backed away from the notion that any drinking means she cannot consent and have come up with the notion that drinking by itself does not mean rape but signs of impairment does..

Steve 9696
08-20-21, 21:51
Your brain is flush with serotonin and oxytocin. These make you feel good. The best drugs, but they wear off. They also block some of the fear and insecure emotions. Girls that seem genuine do that. In some ways, that is why divorce hurts so much. That was an epic field report. A trifecta of sex. I too love sex and kissing. The longer the better. It is less about the orgasm than feeling satisfied. Unless a girl is really into the sex, if you try to prolong the session, you risk not getting an orgasm or be satisfied before she calls it quits. But a woman that finds it enjoyable and feels secure can fuck for a very long time and many times. I find these girls rare gems. The smart ones can manipulate you because you feel so good. But it is like being close to the fire. You might get burned, but it feels so good. Looking for that SB the can make me blow my load and make me hard again for the extended session.Yeah you can tell when a girl truly likes to fuck because she never gets tired of it. Even when you are King Whiskey Dick. Girls who are great SBs but don't like to fuck as much might say "how can I make you cum baby" and that feels nice like they want to make you happy. But it's kinda code for "I'm tired of fucking". LOL.

Kayla never tired. She was just on it for forever. It was awesome. And it reminded me of Krystal another ATF who after we had fucked forever and I was apologizing "sorry babe sometimes I take a really long time" and she says "That's OK baby. U can fuck me all night if you want!" That's my kinda girl!

Now that I think about it Kayla and Krystal are the only two SBs I've had that had lingerie in their purse and got into it right away. They were DTF before the waiter poured the first glass of wine at dinner!

Akibono
08-21-21, 01:03
Yeah you can tell when a girl truly likes to fuck because she never gets tired of it. Even when you are King Whiskey Dick. Girls who are great SBs but don't like to fuck as much might say "how can I make you cum baby" and that feels nice like they want to make you happy. But it's kinda code for "I'm tired of fucking". LOL.

Kayla never tired. She was just on it for forever. It was awesome. And it reminded me of Krystal another ATF who after we had fucked forever and I was apologizing "sorry babe sometimes I take a really long time" and she says "That's OK baby. U can fuck me all night if you want!" That's my kinda girl!

Now that I think about it Kayla and Krystal are the only two SBs I've had that had lingerie in their purse and got into it right away. They were DTF before the waiter poured the first glass of wine at dinner!Another thing that is awesome with a few girls is the way they modulate the depth and speed of the strokes. I always try to leave some space so the girl can position herself the way she likes. Sometimes a particular angle hits a nice spot. Some girls like a particular variation in position, but a few will close up the legs to indicate they want it gentler and then spread them and pull you forward when they want it fast and hard. No words are spoken, but both parties know how to optimize the situation. I really love the Sagami condoms. They don't fit everyone, but they are so thin and transfer heat so well, most of the time I can't tell the difference. But where they really shine is penetrating someone tight. They are so smooth you can slide in with ultimate control. I remember a girl that really got tight and sensitive when she orgasmed. It was really fun feeling her clench tight, gasp, and make faces while I slowly continued to pump her and she could not control it. Intense for both of us.

Midwestern
08-21-21, 06:52
Yeah, my favorite is sticking it in, and then doing DFK for several hours. I can do this for a few hours especially if I am drunk and I am with strange. I sometimes do not even cum and I do not care. I can masturbate and cum whenever I want, but I cannot put my dick inside a new hottie and DFK her whenever I want, and so when I finally get it, I try to make it last for several hours. I bet it's good cardio too.

Akibono
08-21-21, 07:57
After an embargo, I am getting back a flurry of responses. Like Steve says feast or famine. It changes so quickly.

TheBMan
08-22-21, 11:41
They are taking it off September 1: https://www.androidauthority.com/sugar-daddy-apps-2020846/.Just got back from Medellin after reading 100's of pages on the Colombia forum which helped tremendously. Got to admit after 5 days I was kinda over slinging around prepagos 3 times a day LOL. The last day I was there I met some chick (semi pro?) who hung out all day and we had a blast which led me to stalking your threads about "seeking". Definitely think I like this route / experience better. But I just joined to set some things up for a possible October trip and its ridiculous. I'm getting like 15 messages every day for the last 3 days LOL. It's a lot of work weeding through tons of hot chicks LOL. But definitely think I already got a couple nailed down for the next trip that seem cool. 8/9/10's half of which seem to not even want money but just want to be wined and dined. So far this seems to be a good investment.

GuyBrusg1957
08-23-21, 01:02
Hey,

I'm new to this but what I don't get is there some secret way to filter profiles? There are just so many options with often unclear photos that could go either way. Or do you really just have to gamble?

Elvis 2008
08-23-21, 03:38
Just got back from Medellin after reading 100's of pages on the Colombia forum which helped tremendously. Got to admit after 5 days I was kinda over slinging around prepagos 3 times a day LOL. The last day I was there I met some chick (semi pro?) who hung out all day and we had a blast which led me to stalking your threads about "seeking". Definitely think I like this route / experience better. But I just joined to set some things up for a possible October trip and its ridiculous. I'm getting like 15 messages every day for the last 3 days LOL. It's a lot of work weeding through tons of hot chicks LOL. But definitely think I already got a couple nailed down for the next trip that seem cool. 8/9/10's half of which seem to not even want money but just want to be wined and dined. So far this seems to be a good investment.I am glad though but do not get too distracted. I eventually had 130 phone numbers from women all over the country. I was really excited about a few. I did two repeats in Bogota and they were both great. The contacts I was most looking forward to seeing there all went dark. I hooked up with one new one and she was awful. One of the girls I repeated with is my now GF so that made Bogota a success.

Medellin was better. I eventually met two of the dozens I had rated in my top group. In Cali, I met two of the ten I had highly rated as well.

Thing is I spent days getting my list of chicks rated and organized, and it was a waste of time. I wish I would have waited until a week before my trip and then started getting numbers. I was just so excited, and it was fun talking to the women and imagining how many women I was going to bang.

Steve 9696
08-23-21, 18:35
Had a really nice reunion with my latest local girl (post Layla). She's been having a really rough go of it if late and really wanted to see me (me or my money? A bit of both I am sure.) Had some drinks and an app and hit the room.

She's just such a cute goofball (22) so even tho she's fat (yep I can do that if need be so long as I have vitaminV) she's kind a great fun to be with. She's sexy and goofy all in one. Had some great sex including clear invitation to bareback (which I declined as I am barebacking Kayla). But maybe the best part is she just truly seems to like and need me (kinda dad frame).

Couple highlight comments from her:

Did you see my face when I first saw you? Damn I really missed you.

I love that you can fuck for so long.

Just a ball of fun to be with. Nice to have that kind of connection. And def unique to SA.

Steve 9696
08-23-21, 21:13
So I think Kayla is very likely the prettiest (hopefully) long term SB I've had. I know she's had at least one high end SD in the past (yacht outings Etc) but she's thankfully fairly low maintenance. Nonetheless I am conscious that a girl like that gets hit on constantly and a "better" SB could sweep her away. Especially with me being long distance and fly in. So making hay while the sun shines.

I am very confident in my charm, charisma and text game but there's def guys with more money than me even though I am prob considered rich by many. So like today she said she was going to the mall. So I sent her $100 (which is nothing in the scheme of things) and she was super excited and thankful. Hopefully I earned some brownie points and she bought a sexy outfit that she’s gonna wear when I am there next — so win win. Was glad I did that.

She said the checkout clerk at Macy's asked her out on a date. Yes. She's THAT girl. LOL.

Any of you have experience in the long distance game with the hottest girl around? Any other thoughts or tips on keeping her engaged for maximum duration?

BrizLad
08-23-21, 22:51
Any of you have experience in the long distance game with the hottest girl around? Any other thoughts or tips on keeping her engaged for maximum duration?I have had some long distance arrangement, have one at the moment. I just accept that I am just one SD on her roster.

And my harsh observation is that you were being played for the $100 visit to the mall. Girls drop these hints all the time, "It's my birthday next week", "Tomorrow, I have a party, nothing to wear" , "I'll see my dad but cannot afford to buy him a gift" etc etc That being said I recently sent my LD SB a birthday gift but only as I was expecting to see her the following week. Which travel then got cancelled.

IMO you cannot stop the momentum of all those hits. She's the one that has to choose to stop it. She told you about the shop clerk...did she tell you about the doorman, the cafe guy, the handsome guy on the subway, the co-worker all of us that would also be hitting on THAT girl. She's telling you the story you want and you are hearing the narrative you want.

Ask yourself this. Without money in the game would she be seen with you, is she the same quality of girl your game lands for free?

Steve 9696
08-24-21, 00:44
I have had some long distance arrangement, have one at the moment. I just accept that I am just one SD on her roster.

And my harsh observation is that you were being played for the $100 visit to the mall. Girls drop these hints all the time, "It's my birthday next week", "Tomorrow, I have a party, nothing to wear" , "I'll see my dad but cannot afford to buy him a gift" etc etc That being said I recently sent my LD SB a birthday gift but only as I was expecting to see her the following week. Which travel then got cancelled.

IMO you cannot stop the momentum of all those hits. She's the one that has to choose to stop it. She told you about the shop clerk...did she tell you about the doorman, the cafe guy, the handsome guy on the subway, the co-worker all of us that would also be hitting on THAT girl. She's telling you the story you want and you are hearing the narrative you want.

Ask yourself this. Without money in the game would she be seen with you, is she the same quality of girl your game lands for free?Yeah I'm not exactly new to this. I get that she's going to see people when I'm not there. I would want that for her. What I don't want is for her to get locked up with a big time exclusive SD that takes her off the market. But that's prob unavoidable at some point, because she's had that in the past. Like Melty at Diva in London. She was just soooo great (pro not SB) but then bam her Instagram blows up the next year with yachts and Maseratis and she's shacking up with some old SD dude. Happy for her. But prefer that Kayla not go off the market that way. A vain hope I suppose.

I got that the mall trip was a subtle money ask. I usually ignore those. But she's low maintenance and I sometimes like doing extras for girls I like just because I can. I have I guess about 6 or 7 girls I send birthday money to. I won't miss it. And they can use it. Maybe they buy their boyfriends dinner with it. Doesn't bother me. I still like brightening their day once a year.

And of course I know they only date me with money on the table. That is a given at my age. But yeah I think several actually like me and now the haters will chime in and say no, it's only your money. But what 9 is going to spend 14 hrs on a plane and in airports and 72 hrs with someone they don't like for $1000 that they could make at home by snapping their fingers. (Alexa, Mika) And what 9. 5 is going to fuck you bareback and have non-stop sex w you for two hours when she will make the exact same amount with a condom and a whole lot less fucking and BJ. I'm going to believe the money is incentive but not the whole story and all the “realists” will never convince me otherwise.

Steve 9696
08-24-21, 01:33
Yeah I'm not exactly new to this. I get that she's going to see people when I'm not there. I would want that for her. What I don't want is for her to get locked up with a big time exclusive SD that takes her off the market. But that's prob unavoidable at some point, because she's had that in the past. Like Melty at Diva in London. She was just soooo great (pro not SB) but then bam her Instagram blows up the next year with yachts and Maseratis and she's shacking up with some old SD dude. Happy for her. But prefer that Kayla not go off the market that way. A vain hope I suppose.

I got that the mall trip was a subtle money ask. I usually ignore those. But she's low maintenance and I sometimes like doing extras for girls I like just because I can. I have I guess about 6 or 7 girls I send birthday money to. I won't miss it. And they can use it. Maybe they buy their boyfriends dinner with it. Doesn't bother me. I still like brightening their day once a year.

And of course I know they only date me with money on the table. That is a given at my age. But yeah I think several actually like me and now the haters will chime in and say no, it's only your money. But what 9 is going to spend 14 hrs on a plane and in airports and 72 hrs with someone they don't like for $1000 that they could make at home by snapping their fingers. (Alexa, Mika) And what 9. 5 is going to fuck you bareback and have non-stop sex w you for two hours when she will make the exact same amount with a condom and a whole lot less fucking and BJ. I'm going to believe the money is incentive but not the whole story and all the realists will never convince me otherwise.Sorry this came off as super defensive. I know you were just trying to help. Thanks for contributing to the forum.

Elvis 2008
08-24-21, 05:16
I am very confident in my charm, charisma and text game but there's def guys with more money than me even though I am prob considered rich by many.

Any of you have experience in the long distance game with the hottest girl around? Any other thoughts or tips on keeping her engaged for maximum duration?I think you are focusing on the wrong things Steve. A girl does not fuck you like that for just money. She did it because she likes you.

The way to keep her engaged is fun texts and telling her you are thinking of her in a non-stalkerish way and visit her as much as humanly possible. Every day my gal and I text each other. We went 4 weeks without seeing and each other, and she damned near ripped my clothes off because it was so long. It is going on close to two weeks now and I am telling her to get ready to get pounded. I miss her like crazy and part of it is the sex but not all of it. So make it a priority to see her as much as you can and text her as much as you can but with pleasant, joking, upbeat things. You want your texts to make her smile and to make her miss you and long for the day she sees you again.

You should see my gal when she sees me: a full fledged sprint and jumping into my arms with the brightest smile you have ever seen.

In the beginning, be the entertainer and plan fun things. After a few dates, see what it is like if you just stay in and watch Netflix or something like that. If you can do something that low key and have fun, she is the rarest breed of them all, a low maintenance stunner.

I would also commit just to her if she is up for it maybe not now but soon and do commit to her. You sound like you had the kind of encounter I have all the time. The reason I do not see any other women is they would be a disappointment compared to my gal. Is that not true with yours?

Monogamy for you is a crazy compliment. Let her bring up the financial agreement then if you bring up committing to her. If she does not ask for money, then I would just help her out a little and when she asks. Women do not want to feel like or be treated like working girls especially by guys they like.

I gave my gal $100 once and she asked, "What is that for?" almost offended that I gave it to her. I said, "It is because I care about you and I want you to have money in case of an emergency. " Save your money for spending it on fun activities. I don't like the mall stuff.

All hot chicks I know have apartments cluttered with useless shit and tons of clothes. My gal asks for nothing because she knows that stuff quickly becomes clutter.

Take that notion that she can find richer guys out of your head. She wants you! So give yourself to her and only her. Sure, it will probably wind down in a year or two but enjoy the ride.

Every time I am in a car with my gal for a period of time, she is reaching for my cock. When we rent a car, half the trip she will be blowing me. When we went to the pool and jacuzzi last trip, I knew my gal would fuck me there and she did in the jacuzzi.

Usually the sex with a gal peaks after the second or third visit, with my gal, it has gotten better and better and we are on like five or six months now. She has finally let go of thinking I am going to cheat on her. You might have one of those unicorn types too, but you got to believe you have one and give up the quest of finding better. Chances are the best sex you will have will be the next one and the next one with this gal.

Akibono
08-24-21, 06:25
Yeah I'm not exactly new to this. I get that she's going to see people when I'm not there. I would want that for her. What I don't want is for her to get locked up with a big time exclusive SD that takes her off the market. But that's prob unavoidable at some point, because she's had that in the past. Like Melty at Diva in London. She was just soooo great (pro not SB) but then bam her Instagram blows up the next year with yachts and Maseratis and she's shacking up with some old SD dude. Happy for her. But prefer that Kayla not go off the market that way. A vain hope I suppose.

I got that the mall trip was a subtle money ask. I usually ignore those. But she's low maintenance and I sometimes like doing extras for girls I like just because I can. I have I guess about 6 or 7 girls I send birthday money to. I won't miss it. And they can use it. Maybe they buy their boyfriends dinner with it. Doesn't bother me. I still like brightening their day once a year.

And of course I know they only date me with money on the table. That is a given at my age. But yeah I think several actually like me and now the haters will chime in and say no, it's only your money. But what 9 is going to spend 14 hrs on a plane and in airports and 72 hrs with someone they don't like for $1000 that they could make at home by snapping their fingers. (Alexa, Mika) And what 9. 5 is going to fuck you bareback and have non-stop sex w you for two hours when she will make the exact same amount with a condom and a whole lot less fucking and BJ. I'm going to believe the money is incentive but not the whole story and all the realists will never convince me otherwise.We never own them and would never want to. They eventually get old and we get tired of them. You can marry them, and still, if they are bored, they will cheat on you or find someone else. I suppose it is about new and excitement. Because the gifts come so quick and easily, these girls do not appreciate them and think it will last forever. Eventually, they realize they lose their looks and are replaced by other newer hotter girls. I find there is at most a 5 year window where women peak. That does not mean they are not still attractive and you do not want to fuck them, but they are missing just some intangible quality. Enjoy them while it lasts. I always get back to what is rare for them. These girls get plenty of attention, but not so much respect. They hear a thousand lies. Confident and respect go far. So does a few gifts. I think your best path is not to compete with those who have money to burn. These guys may impress the girls, by the girls also know these guys play the field. The get jealous of the competition. Plus, plenty of rich guys are also aholes because they can buy who they want. Never let the girls see you are bothered by the competition.

Recently, I got a slew of messages from SA girls. I am not sure how they got my numbers since I do not give it out freely. They are all professionals. While the costs are cheap, I am not interested in a professional escort. It is both risky and the pics are probably made up like everything else. I suspect there are many girls on the site merely trolling for prospects. They collect numbers and contact until they are kicked off the site. Then they use these numbers to attract clients. They may also share them among themselves. I find it too coincidental that these contacts just seemed to pop out of the blue. Anyone else have a similar experience?

Midwestern
08-24-21, 07:26
If you are not super fat, not super old, and / or not super ugly, then SBs and even pros will fuck you happily for more than your money.

I am not super fat, I am not super old, and I am not super ugly, and so many WGs and SBs like both me and my money, not just my money.

Yes, there might be some gals that only like me for my money, but usually I will not see them again, especially an SB.

Will any of these gals see me without money? I admit, probably not. Do many of them like me for more than just the money? Probably yes.

LshRoomer
08-24-21, 14:40
It's obviously a money game. It's intrinsic to the sugar lifestyle and the "arrangement". However, there is a human component as well, where the girl might actually like you.

Midwestern made a damn good point. If you are not "too" anything, then her getting paid is a bonus. Even some pros have a hard time faking when the customer is too fat / bald / ugly / generally disgusting because they are women with their own preferences, etc.

In my experience, the girls that you have a "beyond money rapport" with, will seek you out after your outing and make future attempts to spend time with you, maybe even without money exchange (Sb in London just wanted to enjoy restaurants and suites, no cash). I've even heard (never been) that the bar girls in Thailand will treat you better and give you better prices if they like you. Another good example of the human component in the exchange.

In general, you can't ignore the human component and conclude that money is the only attraction.

02.

MiamiBoy1
08-24-21, 16:59
I read so many stories here about how a monger found a super hot SB, fucked her and she did not ask for a dime. I understand that we all pay one way or another, but I consider wine & dine, accommodations, taxi / flight expenses standard. No matter how and where I meet a girl, I'm ready for these expenses. I've been using SA for over a year now, and I would say, from my experience, that 95%+ of the girls that I ever contacted, asked me for money. All of them wanted to hear a specific number, per hour, per multiple hours, per date BEFORE we even meet. Red flag, right? For many of you, it would be a no go situation. If I decline to agree to a specific rate / number, or negotiate it, they all lose interest and stop responding or just tell me they are not interested. If I were to reject every single girl that asks for money, I would have pretty much zero options to choose from. Okay, maybe a few %. I'm not ugly, not old, dress and smell well. My SA profile is almost 100% complete with a bunch of real good quality photos of me. I must admit that my standards are a bit high, I'm picky af. I only contact girls that I consider to be 7+. I guess if I had lower my standards, I would find a freebie who just wants to wine and dine, or just date a foreigner. I'm not looking for freebies specifically, this is not my priority, but it would be nice to have 1 or 2 in the mix sometimes and feel like a real boyfriend. Because when cash does not exchange hands, it just feels so much better and natural. So, how do you find freebies or non-pros? What is your strategy?

LshRoomer
08-24-21, 18:10
I've been back for about 2 weeks now and I finally have a chance to write this report. It's my first report here, just sharing the experience.

To all those that gave Madrid feedback / advice, thank you! I was blown away by the reception, quality, and responsiveness in Madrid. There were so many girls ready to meet that I literally had my pick of the litter. Some of the girls that I couldn't meet are still asking me over whatsapp when I plan to return. I'm kicking myself for not jumping into the Madrid pool so much earlier. PPM in Madrid comes out to 200/300 euro, from my limited experience. And in my case, it included an overnight (not negotiated, it just happened).

Elizabeth (Lili), 24/26??

She was cool on SA, so we moved over to whatsapp. I had no intention of meeting her during the 2 days I had. There were about 3 other girls that were already chomping at the bit to hang out. She was probably my 3rd or 4th preference. I had a date already scheduled for 8 pm, so I was set.

Around 5/6 Lili wrote me and asked what I was doing that night. I told her I had plans and that we should try for the next day. She mentioned earlier that she wanted to hang out around 10 pm. I had plans for 8 but work was quickly getting in the way. Lili wrote me again and told me she was bored. Work was going to kill my 8 pm but I knew that I would be done by 10. She sent me a voice message telling me how bored she was. So I asked her if she wanted to come over and chill with me, and she accepted, after asking me 100 times if I was serious. I started to think it was a bad idea.

She was about an hour away and during her trip to me, she just seemed like a crazy girl. She kept asking if I was going to be there, or if I was going to stand her up. Am I serious about meeting? I'm starting to shoot myself thinking that I chose the wrong girl. There was a starbucks on the corner, and I told her that I was going to grab a coffee and she was surprised that I asked her what she wanted. Starbucks ended up closing as I got there and this would repeat throughout the night. When she finally gets to the plaza, she texted me and I told her that I changed my mind about meeting (joke) and she called me like, WTF, it just took an hour to get here. Are you serious! I walked toward her on my cell while telling her that I'm sorry I just can't make it. LOL. She saw me and just started laughing. So we hugged and got off to a good start. Once we got together, I could see all her anxiety disappear. I suggested grabbing a quick drink before trying a tapas place that I found online. She was down. After the drink, we started our mission for food. It was late and there were plenty of people out, but the restaurants were closing. We couldn't find food anywhere. It was literally closing time everywhere. We went to about 5 places that all were closing as we walked in the door. We found a chill place that was still open and ate / drank outside. This was not a fancy place at all, but they had the best olives I've ever tasted in my life. I realized that I've been robbed all these years of eating olives. I had no idea they could be this good.

I find out she is an english teacher and an actress. After looking for another place to have a drink and failing, we decided to head back to my place. We would have had to go too far in order to get to a good bar, so we went with the easy option. Once we arrived, it was all good and very comfortable. We chatted on the couch and she continued to tell me more about her situation. We took pictures and just chilled. We were both drunk and we both took edibles, so we were super chill and just chatting.

It started getting late, so it was time to put the moves on her. I came in the living room and told her that I was about to sleep and walked over to her to give her goodnight kiss. As she was sitting on the couch, I stood in front or her and leaned in for a kiss on the cheek. The kiss was slow and definitely suggestive. I then kissed the other cheek, touching her nose with mine as I switched, still taking it slowly, while also stroking her hair (I'm a hair guy). She put her hand on my face and kissed me with a gentle peck and a look that foretold of more to come. She pulled me closer for more kisses as I mounted her kinda like a girl would mount you if you were sitting on the couch (obvious I didn't' put all my weight on her! As I kissed her and roamed all over freely, I could tell she was really into it. Every peck on the neck or shoulder was met with a moan that seemed uncontrollable. I've found that a lot of girls like when you are on top of them like this. There is a certain dominance mixed with pleasure that really makes them melt. I pull her head back by her hair in order to kiss her neck as she moaned and continued to grab me in a way that said, "what are you waiting for? She took off my shirt and started the nipple sucking. I love that feeling. We ended up laying down on the couch still making out as I started to undo her dress and disrobe her from the top down. As I undid her bra, I was immediately greeted by a pierced left nipple that she asked me to be careful with. Dress came fully off and I reached down to test the waters as she kisses my shoulders and even the top of my head. She was very sensual. She asked if I had a condom and I almost shot myself. I only had one condom and I was probably out of luck to find another one. At this point, I knew I would go through at least 3 condoms by the morning time and was stuck with just making the one last for one big hurrah.

We stand up and make our way to the bedroom. She lays down with no hesitation and the make out session continues. When I touch her again, I see that she is even more wet than before. I roam her whole body with my hands and as always got a good look at what's down below. It's important to know if all is well. Shaved, not shaved, bumps / no bumps, smell / no smell. She was clean and ready to go. The kissing began again chest to chest but I wasn't on top of her, more on the side where I could touch her whole body from head to feet. I moved further up and she put it in her mouth with no hesitation. I stuck with the blowjob for about 30 seconds but was much more interested in what her sensual sex game was like. Rolled down the bag as she waited, rubbing my thighs. We start in mish slow, lot of kissing. She was not the greatest kisser, but she wasn't bad, problably hadn't come across a certain kissing style before. She is loving mish and everytime I touch the clit, she squeezes my arm or whatever her hand is near. Her body was nice. She was short and thin with wide hips but not skinny. Mish turns into banging her on the side, which turns into doggy. I felt her pushing her hips up too high during doggy, so I gently pulled her hips back in order to make the connection more comfortable (less pressure bending my junk). The session escalated and the doggy pounding got harder, as I grabbed her arms or her hair, her response each time was suggesting to do it more. LOL. Finally bust in the bag and she collapsed on the bed and said "Wow" . Hahahah. I still laugh in my head when I think of her laying on the bed and the only thing that came to her mind was "wow" LOL. Got cleaned up and she asked if she could stay but said that she can't sleep without the TV on and complained that there was no TV in the bedroom. She slept on the couch and I slept in the bedroom. The next morning, I gave her 250 eu and she seemed surprised (we agree on 200). I called her a bolt (like Uber) and before she left she gave me the let's bang again eyes, but I had no condoms (I'm still mad about that). She hugged me at the door with a strong hug. It actually surprised me because it was prolonged and strong. She texted me when she got home and hit me two days later to hang out again and about a week ago asking when I'll be back.

She was super cool and for anyone that says that SA girls are just escorts, I can't emphasize enough that though they may have sex for money, they are definitely not pros. Pros don't do all night for 200 euros and they usually don't call you to hang out. Just saying. I totally plan on seeing her next time I'm in town. I now have a reason to check out Spain. I waited waaaay too long to check out this gem.

Oneminuteboy
08-24-21, 21:15
Great report. Adding Madrid to my cities to visit.

Steve 9696
08-25-21, 03:13
If you are not super fat, not super old, and / or not super ugly, then SBs and even pros will fuck you happily for more than your money.

I am not super fat, I am not super old, and I am not super ugly, and so many WGs and SBs like both me and my money, not just my money.

Yes, there might be some gals that only like me for my money, but usually I will not see them again, especially an SB.

Will any of these gals see me without money? I admit, probably not. Do many of them like me for more than just the money? Probably yes.Absolutely spot on. Well said!

Steve 9696
08-25-21, 03:19
I read so many stories here about how a monger found a super hot SB, fucked her and she did not ask for a dime. I understand that we all pay one way or another, but I consider wine & dine, accommodations, taxi / flight expenses standard. No matter how and where I meet a girl, I'm ready for these expenses. I've been using SA for over a year now, and I would say, from my experience, that 95%+ of the girls that I ever contacted, asked me for money. All of them wanted to hear a specific number, per hour, per multiple hours, per date BEFORE we even meet. Red flag, right? For many of you, it would be a no go situation. If I decline to agree to a specific rate / number, or negotiate it, they all lose interest and stop responding or just tell me they are not interested. If I were to reject every single girl that asks for money, I would have pretty much zero options to choose from. Okay, maybe a few %. I'm not ugly, not old, dress and smell well. My SA profile is almost 100% complete with a bunch of real good quality photos of me. I must admit that my standards are a bit high, I'm picky af. I only contact girls that I consider to be 7+. I guess if I had lower my standards, I would find a freebie who just wants to wine and dine, or just date a foreigner. I'm not looking for freebies specifically, this is not my priority, but it would be nice to have 1 or 2 in the mix sometimes and feel like a real boyfriend. Because when cash does not exchange hands, it just feels so much better and natural. So, how do you find freebies or non-pros? What is your strategy?I am with you that it's rare to find a girl that doesn't want to settle amount before the date. Probably only 2-3 of the twenty five or so seeking girls I've banged. That said settling a PPM amount before the date does not make them a pro. I'the say pretty much all the girls and I consider them non pros. They are just girls that can live in the moment and enjoy time with a guy they like a the come out a bit better off. They surely do not consider themselves pros and will be mightily offended if you do.

That said I think getting freebies on SA is wrong. They are on SA for sugar. Them giving you sugar and you not giving it back is just wrong IMO. At least that is how I play.

Steve 9696
08-25-21, 03:27
Great report. Adding Madrid to my cities to visit.Agree. Awesome report. And so much the "correct" SB experience. A true girlfriend for 24 hours because she wants to. There is no pro going to hang with you overnight for $300. I simply love when these girls decide to stay the night. To me that's the ultimate "I enjoy being with you" statement. Because they truly don't have to. Money is the same regardless. So it's really her choice to hang with you. Totally awesome.

Akibono
08-25-21, 04:29
Agree. Awesome report. And so much the "correct" SB experience. A true girlfriend for 24 hours because she wants to. There is no pro going to hang with you overnight for $300. I simply love when these girls decide to stay the night. To me that's the ultimate "I enjoy being with you" statement. Because they truly don't have to. Money is the same regardless. So it's really her choice to hang with you. Totally awesome.It's really about trust. You are correct, it goes both ways. For some reason, probably ego, when money is less obvious, I am more generous. I hate being an ATM. You get back what you give. Most girls are a bit insecure. Lots of guy try to get something for nothing. Others are just flakes. They get ghosted and rejected a lot. So, the defensive mechanism is to reject us first. Staying overnight is an indication she trusts you. I believe actions are more reliable than words.

Midwestern
08-25-21, 06:29
I have previously mentioned that among the 25 gals that I hooked up with on SA, over a period of 20 months on the site, that about 12 or 13 were freebies.

Why only 25 gals total? I was picky and I avoided pros. And when I found a few gals that I liked, then I was happily set for a few weeks or months.

More importantly, how did I score the freebies? It was never my intention to score freebies, but it just happened. Based on the dozen freebies that I scored, I hate to generalize, but here is a rough breakdown as follows.

Some were brand new to SA. It was not only their first day on SA, but maybe even their first hour on SA. I immediatley chatted them up and if there was any chemistry, I immediately suggested a meet and greet for that same night or soon thereafter. And so, they were not yet jaded and I could set their expectations.

Some were in it for the long game. Hoping to marry a rich guy. I know that at least one of my former freebies eventually did marry a rich guy, as I saw her huge engagement ring on her social media about a year after we were together.

Some were decently employed and were not desperate for money. They just wanted to have fun, with me picking up the tab, and liked having a "rich" boyfriend.

And then there were the PPMs that later became freebies. I did not include them in my list of 12 or 13 freebies. If I count PPMs that I converted to freebies, then my number of freebies is in the high teens. Remember, I only met with non pros. And with non pros, after they have been with you intimately for a few weeks, they do not want to stop seeing you. I was like a friend to them, that they had fun with, and that they shared quality intimacy with. Gosh, I don't know how many PPM gals later said to me that I did not have to give them anything. I am not rich, super fit, or young. I was just a fun and easy going guy, and I was not creepy or weird in bed.

But at the end of the day, I was always prepared to help them out financially. If you are going to be on SA, you cannot be cheap about it. I did not seek freebies. Just happened. And in fact, IMHO, PPM is better than a freebie. With freebies, there's always this sense of mystery and discomfort about what is she in this for. So if you do not mind my advice, I suggest not seeking freebies on SA. It is being cheap, and always worrying about the other shoe to drop is not worth it. Aren't there websites for freebies? Like friend finder or tinder or match or plenty of fish and etc?


I read so many stories here about how a monger found a super hot SB, fucked her and she did not ask for a dime. I understand that we all pay one way or another, but I consider wine & dine, accommodations, taxi / flight expenses standard. No matter how and where I meet a girl, I'm ready for these expenses. I've been using SA for over a year now, and I would say, from my experience, that 95%+ of the girls that I ever contacted, asked me for money. All of them wanted to hear a specific number, per hour, per multiple hours, per date BEFORE we even meet. Red flag, right? For many of you, it would be a no go situation. If I decline to agree to a specific rate / number, or negotiate it, they all lose interest and stop responding or just tell me they are not interested. If I were to reject every single girl that asks for money, I would have pretty much zero options to choose from. Okay, maybe a few %. I'm not ugly, not old, dress and smell well. My SA profile is almost 100% complete with a bunch of real good quality photos of me. I must admit that my standards are a bit high, I'm picky af. I only contact girls that I consider to be 7+. I guess if I had lower my standards, I would find a freebie who just wants to wine and dine, or just date a foreigner. I'm not looking for freebies specifically, this is not my priority, but it would be nice to have 1 or 2 in the mix sometimes and feel like a real boyfriend. Because when cash does not exchange hands, it just feels so much better and natural. So, how do you find freebies or non-pros? What is your strategy?

MiamiBoy1
08-25-21, 20:50
I have previously mentioned that among the 25 gals that I hooked up with on SA, over a period of 20 months on the site, that about 12 or 13 were freebies.

Why only 25 gals total? I was picky and I avoided pros. And when I found a few gals that I liked, then I was happily set for a few weeks or months.

More importantly, how did I score the freebies? It was never my intention to score freebies, but it just happened. Based on the dozen freebies that I scored, I hate to generalize, but here is a rough breakdown as follows.

Some were brand new to SA. It was not only their first day on SA, but maybe even their first hour on SA. I immediatley chatted them up and if there was any chemistry, I immediately suggested a meet and greet for that same night or soon thereafter. And so, they were not yet jaded and I could set their expectations.

Some were in it for the long game. Hoping to marry a rich guy. I know that at least one of my former freebies eventually did marry a rich guy, as I saw her huge engagement ring on her social media about a year after we were together.

Some were decently employed and were not desperate for money. They just wanted to have fun, with me picking up the tab, and liked having a "rich" boyfriend.

And then there were the PPMs that later became freebies. I did not include them in my list of 12 or 13 freebies. If I count PPMs that I converted to freebies, then my number of freebies is in the high teens. Remember, I only met with non pros. And with non pros, after they have been with you intimately for a few weeks, they do not want to stop seeing you. I was like a friend to them, that they had fun with, and that they shared quality intimacy with. Gosh, I don't know how many PPM gals later said to me that I did not have to give them anything. I am not rich, super fit, or young. I was just a fun and easy going guy, and I was not creepy or weird in bed.

But at the end of the day, I was always prepared to help them out financially. If you are going to be on SA, you cannot be cheap about it. I did not seek freebies. Just happened. And in fact, IMHO, PPM is better than a freebie. With freebies, there's always this sense of mystery and discomfort about what is she in this for. So if you do not mind my advice, I suggest not seeking freebies on SA. It is being cheap, and always worrying about the other shoe to drop is not worth it. Aren't there websites for freebies? Like friend finder or tinder or match or plenty of fish and etc?Basically, about 50% of the women you met, never brought up PPM / money discussion, correct? How many women have you contacted in total to get to those numbers (25 hook ups, 12/13 freebies)? Thousands? Your numbers are impressive, honestly. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just a bad luck?

WyattEarp
08-25-21, 21:15
Basically, about 50% of the women you met, never brought up PPM / money discussion, correct? How many women have you contacted in total to get to those numbers (25 hook ups, 12/13 freebies)? Thousands? Your numbers are impressive, honestly. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just a bad luck?Midwestern, I think you need to delineate the situation in China versus the United States. Western men are very popular with Chinese and other Asian women. There is more of the long-game husband search for many of these women.

BrizLad
08-25-21, 23:31
I have previously mentioned that among the 25 gals that I hooked up with on SA, over a period of 20 months on the site, that about 12 or 13 were freebies.

Why only 25 gals total? I was picky and I avoided pros. And when I found a few gals that I liked, then I was happily set for a few weeks or months.

You also have to factor the country and the culture difference. A western guy hunting in China adds dynamic also.

Midwestern
08-26-21, 00:24
Basically, about 50% of the women you met, never brought up PPM / money discussion, correct? How many women have you contacted in total to get to those numbers (25 hook ups, 12/13 freebies)? Thousands? Your numbers are impressive, honestly. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or is it just a bad luck?Yes, I contacted thousands of gals. Literally. I was on SA for several hours a day, everyday. Over 20 hours a week. I was hooked. Some people are addicted to online gaming. I was addicted to SA.

Everyday, I would go through at least the first half dozen pages of profiles, sorted based on most recent activity. I would send messages to at least 20 gals per day. I ended up meeting at least 50 gals in person over the 20 months that I was on SA. Eventually hooked up with half of them. No chemistry with other half. For me, meet and greet was very important.

Many (most) of the women wanted to discuss financial arrangements before meeting, and I just told them let's just meet first, and these women felt it was wasting their time to meet without discussing the arrangement. To me, I thought it was a waste of time to discuss arrangements with people that I have not even met in person yet. So, I pretty much only met women that did not bring up money before we met.

So, I met 50, out of several thousand that I initially contacted, and out of maybe the one thousand that bothered to reply back to me.

When we did meet, if there was chemistry, then we would either hook up that night, or later. About a third of the time, they asked about the arrangement, about a third of the time I brought it up (and when I did this, about half the time the gal said let's not talk about it now (a few were insulted that I even brought it up), and a third of the time it was not brought up.

Not sure if this matters, but this was San Francisco, where there were a ton of people on SA and a ton of activity on SA, especially when including the areas outside SF.

But again, don't seek freebies on SA. That's my advice.

Mush Elvii
08-26-21, 01:48
I stumbled on this thread just by accident. Though I know SA (mentioned alot on South American / Mexican cities discussion), I signed up yesterday purely to rake some prospects for MTY / MDE upcoming trip (2 - 4 week timeframe). Iam not new to that scene but SA is just another medium to find some (good ones)!

However just for sh**t & g**gl*s I thought of checking local talent(central/S TX); got hit with dozen plus, same profiles more or less, asking for assistance, blah blah. I picked one, agreed to meet over drinks after work and she showed up on time. We sat, and she basically went to town on menu. LOL! Now I'm gentlemen enough not to object and let her enjoy it, but a simple meet and greet turn into fu**in 200 $ food / drink bill and all I got are barely 2 bases.

I drop her off, played the trick of getting invited in but failed. she's ready to spend weekend in hotel though and let me suggest 'arrangement' $$ which is worthy of her,
However I'm not going to spend one more min with her. There's bunch more who approached and want to meet at 4 star steak house / seafood place as initial meeting. (one invited straight up in her apt for 'coffee' which I spooked and declined. Who knows if brothers are sitting in there waiting for me. LOL).

Anyway, just wanted to get some insight on usa based SA options; I get it these bit**s are all flaky and shit, but what is usual setup for initial screening and spending? And is 200-300 ppm is avg running for these 'so called college gals' (which I highly doubt many of them are not even in school).

Sorry for nave post but this is a bit different than tindr / bumble style hookup so thought I ask.

Cheers fu*k*rs!

Midwestern
08-26-21, 02:22
Midwestern, I think you need to delineate the situation in China versus the United States. Western men are very popular with Chinese and other Asian women. There is more of the long-game husband search for many of these women.


You also have to factor the country and the culture difference. A western guy hunting in China adds dynamic also.I only used SA in the United States, and mostly in San Francisco, including entire bay area. I used to live and work in SF.

When using SA, I only met up with gals that did NOT talk about money before the meet and greet. These gals barely exist. That's why I only ended up meeting about 50 gals during 20 months, even though I spent hours every day on SA.

In addition, I did not use SA to meet college girls. I met some college girls, and it was boring. So, my age target was late 20s and 30s.

If I was on the road, then I just used SA for PPM hookups.

Again, I strongly recommend not looking for freebies on SA. Even when you find a freebie, it' is not worth it, on average, from my experience.

In China, I look for arrangements with MP gals. About a quarter of the MP gals have BFs and arrangements.

Akibono
08-27-21, 03:38
I only used SA in the United States, and mostly in San Francisco, including entire bay area. I used to live and work in SF.

When using SA, I only met up with gals that did NOT talk about money before the meet and greet. These gals barely exist. That's why I only ended up meeting about 50 gals during 20 months, even though I spent hours every day on SA.

In addition, I did not use SA to meet college girls. I met some college girls, and it was boring. So, my age target was late 20s and 30s.

If I was on the road, then I just used SA for PPM hookups.

Again, I strongly recommend not looking for freebies on SA. Even when you find a freebie, it' is not worth it, on average, from my experience.

In China, I look for arrangements with MP gals. About a quarter of the MP gals have BFs and arrangements.Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

I would not call them sugarbabies at all. The sb requires some attraction and do some screening. They usually want more money than the escorts. I am reluctant to go with them because of the risks and they lie like sailors. Thus, you have no idea what you are going to get.

MiamiBoy1
08-27-21, 21:31
Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

I would not call them sugarbabies at all. The sb requires some attraction and do some screening. They usually want more money than the escorts. I am reluctant to go with them because of the risks and they lie like sailors. Thus, you have no idea what you are going to get.I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.

Steve 9696
08-28-21, 03:18
I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.Yeah I think you have hit upon a fundamental difference between Colombia and USA — Seeking is very different. Sure there are pros in the US on Seeking but they are easy to weed out. And the non pros are awesome GFE dates. I think in MDE most of the SA girls are pros. Harder to find non pro. One time the USA wins on P4 P. Yay!

P.S. Think DramaFree has a bunch of luck but maybe that is Mexico City I think. But hit him up and see.

Steve 9696
08-28-21, 03:33
Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

I would not call them sugarbabies at all. The sb requires some attraction and do some screening. They usually want more money than the escorts. I am reluctant to go with them because of the risks and they lie like sailors. Thus, you have no idea what you are going to get.My experience is the good girls def don't think of themselves as pros and as soon as you cross the line you are gone. For example Kayla by our third night (so already had sex four times. And given her "allowance") we were discussing SA and our experiences. (P.S. I don't do this much because it can hurt the vibe). And she says "Some guys want to just offer me money to go to the hotel room. I always block them. I'm not a prostitute!" She was clearly offended by any notion that she's a pro. Yet we she just got allowance for the time spent with me that included a couple hours in bed. Importantly she sees this as a choice she made to sleep with a guy she likes. And he gives her spending / rent money. No big deal. But NOT prostitution in her mind. (Or mine).

Sσ never say PPM. Never say how much you want? Or how much you charge. My patter after some nice chat is:

"So here is how I see our date going. We meet for dinner or drinks and we have an awesome time. Assuming we vibe we take things private. On the off chance we don't vibe we can part after dinner no harm no foul. Does that sound about right?

After they say yes I ask separately "of course I'the want to give you a gift / allowance — did you have something in mind?

This approach has worked well — keeping them engaged amd discussing the topic without any overt mentions of PPM. My stats as if this month are (W vs L):

Lunch 1 and 3.

Drinks 8 and 0.

Dinner 19 and 4.

As you may have guessed I don't do lunch anymore. LOL. Although both my lunch and other fails were primarily when new to the game. Pretty spotless record of late.

Sun Devil
08-28-21, 04:09
I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.I am about to leave Guadalajara, where I have 2 coed sugar babies who have provided almost daily sex that always had DFK, BBBJ with CIM and swallow, to go to Medellin for the next 3 weeks. One girl is a ballet student who is into Bob Dylan and the Beatles. The other is a nanotechnology major who did her homework in my Airbnb prior to us having mind boggling sex. The reason for the move to Colombia was because of change of scenery and price. Here in Mexico I have been giving gifts of about $200 per date (I have justified the amount by the great sex that they are giving me). Apparently, after texting POTs via WhatsApp, I have been informed that the going rate for a date in Medellin is 300 k, which is $77. I am just curious how you vetted your selections. If your experience is the norm, I might have to curtail my plan of staying in Medellin for 3 weeks.

DramaFree11
08-28-21, 04:27
Yeah I think you have hit upon a fundamental difference between Colombia and USA Seeking is very different. Sure there are pros in the US on Seeking but they are easy to weed out. And the non pros are awesome GFE dates. I think in MDE most of the SA girls are pros. Harder to find non pro. One time the USA wins on P4 P. Yay!

P.S. Think DramaFree has a bunch of luck but maybe that is Mexico City I think. But hit him up and see.As much as I do not like American Chicks, I would much rather be with American girls then girls from MDE all day long. Honestly a girl tells me they are from Colombia I block them now, I just can not deal with there bad attitudes. I hated MDE and I would never go back, even if you paid me. I do believe Elvis that Bogota is much better, but I will stick with Mxico / Russia. I Love the girls, weather and food in Mxico. Another plus Mexican girls love sex and are total freaks.

As far as Mamiab. He complains a lot and find fault in a lot of destinations. I do say that MDE sucks and the good old days are long gone in Kiev, but I speak very highly about Mexico and Russia. Mb. Complains and finds fault in most places.

Akibono
08-28-21, 19:39
I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.Not much you can do when a girl wants quick cash. The best way for her is many guys with short meetings. Sometimes, if you know what she needs and you can provide it, you can bump them out of the escort mindset, but I think that is mostly a losing battle. Once a gal is OK with sleeping around, you are not going to turn them back. The SBs are usually still apprehensive with going with strangers. So, they do more screening which takes time and effort. This means, no easy payday for them and they are looking for something more long-term. What puts me off is that cheap hooker attitude where you are just treated as another commodity based on what she can get from you. Best to run away from them unless a quick hookup is what you are looking for.

MiamiBoy1
08-28-21, 20:01
As much as I do not like American Chicks, I would much rather be with American girls then girls from MDE all day long. Honestly a girl tells me they are from Colombia I block them now, I just can not deal with there bad attitudes. I hated MDE and I would never go back, even if you paid me. I do believe Elvis that Bogota is much better, but I will stick with Mxico / Russia. I Love the girls, weather and food in Mxico. Another plus Mexican girls love sex and are total freaks.

As far as Mamiab. He complains a lot and find fault in a lot of destinations. I do say that MDE sucks and the good old days are long gone in Kiev, but I speak very highly about Mexico and Russia. Mb. Complains and finds fault in most places.Yes, I do complain, but my complaints are legit, based on my own experience. SA in Mexico City was much much better than in MDE (at least, last summer when I was there). Bogota is better than MDE, and it was pretty good on my trip there half a year ago (maybe because of covid restrictions / strikes? Who knows), but this time Bogota sucked too. SA could be good in Rio, but for some reason it is not popular there, and pickings are slim, even though Rio got plenty of great talent, most beautiful girls I have ever seen, but I assume they are non-pros or just not familiar with SA. Can't tell anything about Russia, never used SA there, but Tinder rocks (at least for me, because I'm Russian and speak the language).

Dramafree, and all other posters, if you think my complaints are not legit, feel free to explain why. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic and you have different experiences.

DramaFree11
08-28-21, 21:57
Yes, I do complain, but my complaints are legit, based on my own experience. SA in Mexico City was much much better than in MDE (at least, last summer when I was there). Bogota is better than MDE, and it was pretty good on my trip there half a year ago (maybe because of covid restrictions / strikes? Who knows), but this time Bogota sucked too. SA could be good in Rio, but for some reason it is not popular there, and pickings are slim, even though Rio got plenty of great talent, most beautiful girls I have ever seen, but I assume they are non-pros or just not familiar with SA. Can't tell anything about Russia, never used SA there, but Tinder rocks (at least for me, because I'm Russian and speak the language).

Dramafree, and all other posters, if you think my complaints are not legit, feel free to explain why. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic and you have different experiences.I have written about my recommendations extensively, please read. I do recommend picking one spot, put all your resources into that destination. (Time, Money and hard work).

I do agree you complain a lot, I do appreciate your honesty. I did like your post on what makes a 10 in a girl.

Midwestern
08-29-21, 07:34
Can you provide a little more detail on the ppm hookups. My limited experience show that many, but not all, are just really escorts.

If they talked about money before meeting, then I avoided them. This is a great way to weed out most pros.

During the meet and greet (my favorite was over drinks), we would just get to know each other. This is where I would find out what they did for a living. And so, I met a nanny, a struggling restaurant owner, a new college graduate barely making ends meet at her new job, a person starting her own little business, etc. None of them were lying, as they knew so many tiny details about their jobs. And so, I would say something like, "Wow, it must be hard making rent every month. Even though we just met, I really like you. Let me give you $400. " And then the gal would say something like, "oh my god, that is so awesome of of you, thank you!" I think there was only one time that we did not end up fucking at some point.

There are a lot of housewives on SA too. I avoided them. From my many exchanges with them, I got the sense that they had become semi pros and thus quite business like.

Elvis 2008
08-31-21, 03:41
90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). If you want constructive criticism, here you go.

2 in 3 people cannot think long term: https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-marshmallow-test-kids-20180626-story.html.


Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. MB,

You are talking too much. Let us make this easy. First thing you do is chat up the gal. For you, if she is not in college or has gone to college, she is a WG and treat her as such. If she gives you a price, she is a WG. Fuck her or tell her to fuck off but do not, do not try to make a WG into a sugar baby.

Stop with the blabbering on line. Get their number and meet them for a drink or coffee. Period. Have them take a personality test so you know how their minds work, ask them why they got on the site, ask about their family, ask about their dreams. You are interviewing them as they talk.

Finally, ask them what their needs are. Do they need a new Iphone? If she says that, she is a WG. Do they want money for mom's leaky roof or dad's medicine? Continue on.

Now is the time you decide to fuck her, tell her to fuck off, or make a SB offer. See how far it has gotten now? Make the woman jump over hurdles. Her being a SB is a great gig.

Tell her your job as a SD is not just you give her money and she gives you sex. You are here to meet her needs, and she will want to meet yours. Sometimes it will be money but there are other times it will be with your smarts and work.

Johns give WGs fish. SDs should be master fisherman and show the SB how to fish. Do not brag. Just let her see how your mind works. Only teach if she asks because she will learn just by being around you. Tell her you will fulfill her needs but in the order you want to. That is your hook unto a long term relationship.

I would not put too much emphasis on looks. I would put much more on sexual prowess, personality, and dependability with a potential SB. If a SB understands you are trying to improve her life, she will fall in love with you.

Five times I have had women tell me they love me in the last 2 years and mean it. The way you know that you are in is the SB will introduce you to your friends and family. Families hate johns but they love SDs who are helping their little girl. Understand that she is going to get shit from people for seeing you an older gringo. You have to be such a positive force in her life she does not mind. Hell, I have had mothers tell their daughters not to blow it with me. And I know all about the families of my ex SBs.

When you did your pay scale with 10's and seeking, I did not want to correct you. Your pay scale was logical, rational, and dead wrong. First off, women are not as rational about money as men are. Women are paid equally to men but they value quality of life more than money and go into easier positions with more time off.

As for the 10 types, they get so many fucking offers they are sick of it. What they want is someone safe, dependable and not full of shit. Every fucking time I go out with my gal, guys act like idiots. It scares her. What I have seen is safety wins out over throwing out a lot of cash every time.

So in summary, screen better, no one but college girls for SBs, anyone with a price is a ho, shut up and listen, ask yourself if she is SB material before you make an offer. Your goal is to add to her life while fucking the shit out of her.

Honestly, dude, you are the kind of guy that projects to women an image that you want to be right and agreed with. So IMO women listen to you, pretend to agree with you, fuck you, take your cash and leave. It is exhausting for them having to be someone they are not. Let them be who they are and they will not leave. For the last time, listen and let them tell you what they need. Many times, it is not money.

Gfefan
08-31-21, 12:14
What are some of your thoughts on why some SB's insist we do CIP? What is in it for them?

While both my SB and I are clean, my concern is around unwanted pregnancy. She claims she has IUD (intra uterine device). I'm not sure if it is trustworthy enough to do CIP without a care in the world.

MiamiBoy1
09-01-21, 00:28
If you want constructive criticism, here you go.

2 in 3 people cannot think long term: https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-marshmallow-test-kids-20180626-story.html.

MB,

You are talking too much. Let us make this easy. First thing you do is chat up the gal. For you, if she is not in college or has gone to college, she is a WG and treat her as such. If she gives you a price, she is a WG. Fuck her or tell her to fuck off but do not, do not try to make a WG into a sugar baby.

Stop with the blabbering on line. Get their number and meet them for a drink or coffee. Period. Have them take a personality test so you know how their minds work, ask them why they got on the site, ask about their family, ask about their dreams. You are interviewing them as they talk.

Finally, ask them what their needs are. Do they need a new Iphone? If she says that, she is a WG. Do they want money for mom's leaky roof or dad's medicine? Continue on.

Now is the time you decide to fuck her, tell her to fuck off, or make a SB offer. See how far it has gotten now? Make the woman jump over hurdles. Her being a SB is a great gig.

Tell her your job as a SD is not just you give her money and she gives you sex. You are here to meet her needs, and she will want to meet yours. Sometimes it will be money but there are other times it will be with your smarts and work.

Johns give WGs fish. SDs should be master fisherman and show the SB how to fish. Do not brag. Just let her see how your mind works. Only teach if she asks because she will learn just by being around you. Tell her you will fulfill her needs but in the order you want to. That is your hook unto a long term relationship.

I would not put too much emphasis on looks. I would put much more on sexual prowess, personality, and dependability with a potential SB. If a SB understands you are trying to improve her life, she will fall in love with you.

Five times I have had women tell me they love me in the last 2 years and mean it. The way you know that you are in is the SB will introduce you to your friends and family. Families hate johns but they love SDs who are helping their little girl. Understand that she is going to get shit from people for seeing you an older gringo. You have to be such a positive force in her life she does not mind. Hell, I have had mothers tell their daughters not to blow it with me. And I know all about the families of my ex SBs.

When you did your pay scale with 10's and seeking, I did not want to correct you. Your pay scale was logical, rational, and dead wrong. First off, women are not as rational about money as men are. Women are paid equally to men but they value quality of life more than money and go into easier positions with more time off.

As for the 10 types, they get so many fucking offers they are sick of it. What they want is someone safe, dependable and not full of shit. Every fucking time I go out with my gal, guys act like idiots. It scares her. What I have seen is safety wins out over throwing out a lot of cash every time.

So in summary, screen better, no one but college girls for SBs, anyone with a price is a ho, shut up and listen, ask yourself if she is SB material before you make an offer. Your goal is to add to her life while fucking the shit out of her.

Honestly, dude, you are the kind of guy that projects to women an image that you want to be right and agreed with. So IMO women listen to you, pretend to agree with you, fuck you, take your cash and leave. It is exhausting for them having to be someone they are not. Let them be who they are and they will not leave. For the last time, listen and let them tell you what they need. Many times, it is not money.Elvis, thanks for the advice. But I think we all agree that SA markets are different, and the one in Medellin in particular, is a tough one. It is full of pros, and your strategy of meet and greet, not discussing PPM, etc. Most likely won't work here (never worked for me). I never bring up PPM when I chat up the girl. She does it first. Yes, that means she is a ho. But if I tell them to fuck off, I will have no other options to choose from. I've come to a conclusion that probably the best way to meet real SBs or non-pros in Medellin is at public places (gyms, shopping malls, cafes, etc) or get introduced by mutual friends.

As for the 10's or 9's, I don't chase them, they are pain in the ass. I would be happy with 7. 5-8.

Not sure what you meant by saying my pay scale is wrong. I merely stated what SA girls were asking, based on hundreds of interactions. I don't pay the prices that are out of my budget and certainly there is zero correlation between price and performance.

Midwestern
09-01-21, 03:24
What are some of your thoughts on why some SB's insist we do CIP? What is in it for them?

While both my SB and I are clean, my concern is around unwanted pregnancy. She claims she has IUD (intra uterine device). I'm not sure if it is trustworthy enough to do CIP without a care in the world.If you do not want a kid with your SB, then do not CIP.

My current SB has been begging for CIP. And now I know why. She wants a kid. She finally admitted it.

Several years ago, one of my SBs told me that her friend got pregnant with her SD, and so she had the kid and now her friend is set for life because the court ordered the SD to pay child support. It was in a state where child support payments are very generous.

But maybe your SB is not trying to have a kid. And so what is in it for her? Maybe she just likes that closeness. I regularly fuck a former WG who is now legit and even has a BF / fiance. She always begs for CIP because she loves the feeling of me shooting a load inside of her. I have had a lot of other women say the same thing. I have to admit, CIP does feel awesome, but not worth it unless you are okay with having a kid.

Akibono
09-01-21, 06:19
What are some of your thoughts on why some SB's insist we do CIP? What is in it for them?

While both my SB and I are clean, my concern is around unwanted pregnancy. She claims she has IUD (intra uterine device). I'm not sure if it is trustworthy enough to do CIP without a care in the world.You sound like that person who is being talked into buying that sports car he cannot afford which the salesperson will happily find someone to finance at 30%. Trusting someone who you barely know who has an interest to deceive you is a very bad idea. I always remind myself that no matter how smart I think I am I only know half the story. I can only imagine the rest and it is bound to be biased and wrong.

Gunners1
09-01-21, 18:11
One of my gym instructors SB is planning a 3 week sojourn in LA. She is super horny and ready for anything. A true squirter. You will need a mattress protector.

Ok. If anyone is keen to have her details let me know. And I shall share her contacts with you.

She plans to arrive on 10 Sep.

G.

Elvis 2008
09-02-21, 07:26
Elvis, thanks for the advice. But I think we all agree that SA markets are different, and the one in Medellin in particular, is a tough one. It is full of pros, and your strategy of meet and greet, not discussing PPM, etc. Most likely won't work here (never worked for me). I never bring up PPM when I chat up the girl. She does it first. Yes, that means she is a ho. But if I tell them to fuck off, I will have no other options to choose from.Well, I had five women in Medellin I fucked bare without a price, and I was last there in March or April and banged two hot blondes without a price but anyway.

Thing I do not get is if you are having to name a price and they are hos then why use seeking at all. You would have better luck turning hos into sugar babies. I did that a lot with strippers in the USA. As long as I kept it as PPM and did not let them get too serious, I. E. Paying for anything outside of sex, things were great. I had great sex with amazing looking women.

To me, the point of having a Colombian GF or SB is their ability to travel. If there is an uneducated ho or one who does not have a passport and cannot make it through an airport (a lot harder and more intimidating challenge that it sounds), I would fuck them and that be it. She was not SB material.

I guess it is different if you are living there. Still, I had a chick from La Isla come over and spend a few hours with me and banged her for 300 k, and she was an 8 or 9 on your scale. I would rather have a hot, excellent performing real ho than get a chick who thinks that by going on seeking she is not a ho. If she is PPM, she is.

DramaFree11
09-03-21, 02:27
Well, I had five women in Medellin I fucked bare without a price, and I was last there in March or April and banged two hot blondes without a price but anyway.

Thing I do not get is if you are having to name a price and they are hos then why use seeking at all. You would have better luck turning hos into sugar babies. I did that a lot with strippers in the USA. As long as I kept it as PPM and did not let them get too serious, I. E. Paying for anything outside of sex, things were great. I had great sex with amazing looking women.

To me, the point of having a Colombian GF or SB is their ability to travel. If there is an uneducated ho or one who does not have a passport and cannot make it through an airport (a lot harder and more intimidating challenge that it sounds), I would fuck them and that be it. She was not SB material.

I guess it is different if you are living there. Still, I had a chick from La Isla come over and spend a few hours with me and banged her for 300 k, and she was an 8 or 9 on your scale. I would rather have a hot, excellent performing real ho than get a chick who thinks that by going on seeking she is not a ho. If she is PPM, she is.Sorry Elvis, I agree with almost everything you say, including your political views, but I do disagree about talking to girls about what you are willing to pay, especially in Latin America. As you know, I am having great success, honestly even better then then my reports. I am very open and up front in what I am willing to pay. This eliminates so many issues and problems down the road. After this we almost never discuss money again. I have renegotiated with a couple girls. Some of my Top Tier girls I have given extra money and gifts. If you do not discuss money you will waste a lot of valuable time and many girls simply will not agree to meet, sorry this is the truth.

As far as making a great experience and mentoring this is a great idea if that is what they are looking.

As Steve said, you probably should never discuss money with American chicks until you meet them face to face. Maybe in text messages after you have talked a few times.

Alex7J
09-03-21, 16:24
Yes, I do complain, but my complaints are legit, based on my own experience. SA in Mexico City was much much better than in MDE (at least, last summer when I was there). Bogota is better than MDE, and it was pretty good on my trip there half a year ago (maybe because of covid restrictions / strikes? Who knows), but this time Bogota sucked too. SA could be good in Rio, but for some reason it is not popular there, and pickings are slim, even though Rio got plenty of great talent, most beautiful girls I have ever seen, but I assume they are non-pros or just not familiar with SA. Can't tell anything about Russia, never used SA there, but Tinder rocks (at least for me, because I'm Russian and speak the language).

Dramafree, and all other posters, if you think my complaints are not legit, feel free to explain why. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic and you have different experiences.I agree with MB: I tried SA in Mexico City: Cancϊn: Tegucigalpa in Honduras: Managua in Nicaragua: Panama: Caracas in Venezuela.

I can vouch it is much better than picking up hoes in clubs or strippers or massage girls and the price is dirt cheap.

Quality of women and pussy is outstanding.

Peace.

I miss Central America and SA chicas.

MiamiBoy1
09-03-21, 21:17
Thing I do not get is if you are having to name a price and they are hos then why use seeking at all.SA / Tinder girls have provided much better service than all others putas. GFE all around. Only once I had a situation when SA girl tried to upcharge me for BBBJ (obviously, never saw her again). I would rather prefer PPM, which is per meet, than get charged by the hour by some Lleras puta and get mechanical all covered shitty service. There is nothing wrong with PPM as long as it serves both parties' needs. My dates with SA girls, with a few recent exceptions, are non-rushed, relaxed and passionate. Yes, I pay extra wine and dine expenses, taxis, etc but overall experience is so much better and well worth it. Sometimes a girl stays overnight, and the price we agreed on becomes so much sweeter, and cost per fuck decreases.

Shyzai
09-04-21, 09:12
One of my gym instructors SB is planning a 3 week sojourn in LA. She is super horny and ready for anything. A true squirter. You will need a mattress protector.

Ok. If anyone is keen to have her details let me know. And I shall share her contacts with you.

She plans to arrive on 10 Sep.

G.I am very much interested. I just bought a subscription using Bitcoin, about 9 hours ago and I am waiting for the Admin to activate my privileges. I am more of a contributor on the Los Angeles Sugar Babe USG forum, since I almost never travel and I live vicariously through you gentlemen.

RedWaters44
09-04-21, 22:37
I have updated the table with new entries, thank you all for the additions. To all the silent readers: we know you are there. Please consider telling us about your experiences, the setting and how much it set you back.

EUROPE

Austria

Vienna 300 EUR for the Night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Czech Republic.Great write up! Can any current members confirm whether they've had great mileage with those US rates? They seem awfully low but maybe I'm just nave (still learning the SA game).

Shyzai
09-04-21, 23:29
Great write up! Can any current members confirm whether they've had great mileage with those US rates? They seem awfully low but maybe I'm just nave (still learning the SA game).I am in LA, and yes, those numbers for LA are just too low. The minimum to get anything here is 400. If you want a 9 and above, then at least 500. Of course, YMMV and you might get lucky and get a good one for less, but I am talking about the norm.

Steve 9696
09-05-21, 01:25
Great write up! Can any current members confirm whether they've had great mileage with those US rates? They seem awfully low but maybe I'm just nave (still learning the SA game).My experience is rates are up a bit post pandemic. Going to be lucky to score an 8+ in a major US city for $400. Seems all the girls are asking $500 and sticking to it pretty good. Might get them down to $400. But don't think it's going lower than that. I've been thrilled with my $500 girls. Especially when they are 24 hrs like Kayla. Worth every penny.

Gunners1
09-05-21, 02:23
Please drop me a private message with a short note about you and your contact details. I will share it with her and you can take it from there.

G.


I am very much interested. I just bought a subscription using Bitcoin, about 9 hours ago and I am waiting for the Admin to activate my privileges. I am more of a contributor on the Los Angeles Sugar Babe USG forum, since I almost never travel and I live vicariously through you gentlemen.

Steve 9696
09-05-21, 02:48
SA / Tinder girls have provided much better service than all others putas. GFE all around. Only once I had a situation when SA girl tried to upcharge me for BBBJ (obviously, never saw her again). I would rather prefer PPM, which is per meet, than get charged by the hour by some Lleras puta and get mechanical all covered shitty service. There is nothing wrong with PPM as long as it serves both parties' needs. My dates with SA girls, with a few recent exceptions, are non-rushed, relaxed and passionate. Yes, I pay extra wine and dine expenses, taxis, etc but overall experience is so much better and well worth it. Sometimes a girl stays overnight, and the price we agreed on becomes so much sweeter, and cost per fuck decreases.This is spot on. An SA date (done right) is so much more / better than just going to the room for an hour or two of sex. And yeah, the moment when you realize she's sleeping over because she WANTS to is simply priceless. My only fear is that I started SA just as a way to have sex in the US. But now some 25 girls later ive become totally addicted to the more complete experience. I honestly don't know how I will feel about straight up P4 P when that becomes available to me again. I've grown very accustomed to the companionship and romance part and think I will find pure P4 P lacking. Guess we'll see!

Rextor
09-05-21, 05:28
I'm in Medellin now, for 1. 5 months already, and SA here sucks. 90%+ of SA girls have no clue how real SB-SD relationships work (or at least, some similar relationships, not 1 night stands). They don't think long term, they don't care about chemistry and affection, but they lie both are important to them. Every time I try to set up a date, I explain what I expect from the date, what I want and need. I explain what GFE means, without going into too much detail. I tell them how chemistry important to me, and that I want both of us to have fun and enjoy our time together. And you know what? They all agree to it, they lie that that is exactly what they are looking for, blah blah blah. When we finally meet, I give them my best BFE (boyfriend experience LOL) and make sure girls are comfortable and relaxed. Only to see them get dressed in less than 3 minutes and stand by the entrance door ready to leave after 1st (and last) round of sex. What a turnoff! And of course, no "thank you" or "would love to see you again" message after the date. Most of my SA dates in MDE happen to be 1 night stands, no matter how hard I try or screen them. Reminds me of Lleras girls, they want you to cum as fast as possible, so that they get back to the park to milk another sucker. The difference is that SA girls are usually lower volume, and provide better GFE service, overall than hardcore pros in El Centro or Parque Lleras.My experience with sa in medellin is that it takes a fuck ton of time. There's maybe some gems ti be found but I think the FB route is just easier. Yeah FB girls are all at least Semi pros, but at least it's quick and reliable. If you want a real SB experience Seeking or as you said real life may be the way to go, but FB is just easier overall.

SA seemed ok in Mexico City, met a couple of great girls, but that was a year ago.

NeilGeorge
09-06-21, 03:37
I am in LA, and yes, those numbers for LA are just too low. The minimum to get anything here is 400. If you want a 9 and above, then at least 500. Of course, YMMV and you might get lucky and get a good one for less, but I am talking about the norm.For $500 I tell the women I would rather look at porno and play with myself. Then they drop the price and their panties.

Oneminuteboy
09-06-21, 17:46
So I've met a few new candidates, in my own country. Also had a few cancel.

Of one that cancelled she was strictly business at the start that I had to warn her about SA rules. She saw this as a 6 month experiment for herself. Asked €500, which I agreed to. As we talked to pin a date she softened up. And eventually folded, scared to meet.

Had one that asked €350. But she wasn't really a looker. Because I wasn't sure I suggested the first meet just talk to see if there would be some chemistry but no fee, though expenses paid by me.
She got upset and blocked me.

Another one, looks to be more of a 6. Quoted a price of €200 per meet. Very willing to meet. Have this one on standby.

Soon meeting up with a 8/9. No price set. I really hope I can get this one, else the 6 just to see if she upgrades to a 7.

Met and slept with a 7, price at €300 per meet. Great pussy and company. Went straight to BB.

Another 7, I wasn't sure about her but got her to the room. Man was I disappointed, €350 fee. We agreed for 2-3 hours on the room. I let her go after 1 saying I was tired.

Things seem different than when I last fished in my own pond. One thing if for certain, the men are more crazy than before. The stories I heard explains why a lot disappear quickly.

BrizLad
09-08-21, 21:52
Compare & contrast.

The experiences of Rextor, Oneminuteboy, RedWaters44 and others demonstrate that SA is a movable experiences based on country.

What works in one country for the girls can be an entirely different model in a different country.

If it is 'all business' as Oneminuteboy experienced, then, for me, I would abandon SA for that country as might as well just go the hooker route and get a professional experience without the SA tax.

When I monger in Philippines I don't even consider SA as it is attracting the girls with the wrong experience.

Steve 9696
09-10-21, 02:20
Compare & contrast.

The experiences of Rextor, Oneminuteboy, RedWaters44 and others demonstrate that SA is a movable experiences based on country.

What works in one country for the girls can be an entirely different model in a different country.

If it is 'all business' as Oneminuteboy experienced, then, for me, I would abandon SA for that country as might as well just go the hooker route and get a professional experience without the SA tax.

When I monger in Philippines I don't even consider SA as it is attracting the girls with the wrong experience.Totally agree. Only game in town in the US. And frankly really good if you put in the time. Found a gem in Buenos Aires where the hooker / club scene bites. But yeah In countries with good P4 P Seeking is really not your best bet. Think I've seen some success from DramaFree in Monterrey or some such. But scoring in strong P4 P countries is rare / hard. Or if you do all you are scoring is a P4 P girl using SA as a platform.

Steve 9696
09-10-21, 02:27
So maybe you guys know this but if your girl is headed a direction you don't like it's best to just ignore / deflect in texts. They do the same in return. Like Su was asking overtly for money — like hey babe I really need xxx. And I would just ignore and change the subject in the next text. Later in person I told her that pushes us apart and she seemed to understand but I think ignore was the best policy rather than making a big deal over text.

Same thing with Kayla but less overt. She will drop a hint that she's going to do X OR why is expensive. Sometimes I bite and send her something. Sometimes I don't — I just ignore and it seems no harm no foul. She does it in reverse so I think it's a thing! Like I suggest we go to the hotel before dinner and she just ignores and deflects with some other conversation. I know she's not down for that. But we don't have some big discussion.

Guess my experience is that ignore / deflect is a good SBSD texting device to handle disconnects without making a big deal. You guys have any similar experiences?

BrizLad
09-10-21, 03:37
Guess my experience is that ignore / deflect is a good SBSD texting device to handle disconnects without making a big deal. You guys have any similar experiences?Actually just had one this week with a casual SB from a few months ago. From time to time she must just run through her address book asking for $$ help with this or that. The tell tale sign for me, is she switches from calling me BrizLad to calling me "babe". Her other tell is her message blocks switch from 1 sentence messages to 5 sentences per send.

My deflection is "OK, next time I see you".

Oneminuteboy
09-10-21, 10:02
Guess my experience is that ignore / deflect is a good SBSD texting device to handle disconnects without making a big deal. You guys have any similar experiences?I'm noticing the same with one I'm currently seeing.

If it's about clothing I just say "that looks nice". And leave it at that or switch the conversation.

Also had a moment where she tried to push a date through. She managed that the first time but it was a happy end.

The second time I deflected by saying my schedule doesn't allow it and she backs off.

RedWaters44
09-10-21, 15:46
Compare & contrast.

The experiences of Rextor, Oneminuteboy, RedWaters44 and others demonstrate that SA is a movable experiences based on country.

What works in one country for the girls can be an entirely different model in a different country.

If it is 'all business' as Oneminuteboy experienced, then, for me, I would abandon SA for that country as might as well just go the hooker route and get a professional experience without the SA tax.

When I monger in Philippines I don't even consider SA as it is attracting the girls with the wrong experience.I completely agree. I'm so sick of Seeking Arrangements. It is filled with the trashiest, most retarded fucking women. The platform just does not attract high quality; it either perpetuates towards naive TikTok girls that are "just experimenting heheh" & want something strictly platonic or total crack WG that rely on the platform to pay rent.

I'm quite young compared to most users on the forum, so when I first signed up on Seeking Arrangements I was simply looking to find a like-minded college girl who I can take on fancy dates, fuck regularly for $500-700/ month, and maybe develop a friendship. So far my time on there has just been a giant waste of money and unnecessary gray hairs.

I'm really contemplating creating an Instagram account and just propositioning regular, "normal" girls in my area that are aspiring models, social media influencers, or whatever the fuck. May be creepy, but simply asking if they've ever had a sugar daddy and leading them towards a fancy date where we could discuss things further shouldn't be a big deal.

Apparently models don't make a whole lot and rumors have it their agents / agencies often connect them with clients for extra income. Curious if any mongers have supported any models that may know a thing or two about how clients get in touch with models agents / their agencies?

https://nypost.com/2017/08/29/model-reveals-fashion-worlds-secret-prostitution-ring

I did meet a really hot high end blonde escort with armpit hair last year who is a model. She was the one who first informed me of the sketchiness in the industry. It's typical to sign contracts, do photo shoots, but still not pay the girls after. I just may have to see her again and ask about how some of her non-escort friends make their extra income.

Steve 9696
09-10-21, 20:51
I completely agree. I'm so sick of Seeking Arrangements. It is filled with the trashiest, most retarded fucking women. The platform just does not attract high quality; it either perpetuates towards naive TikTok girls that are "just experimenting heheh" & want something strictly platonic or total crack WG that rely on the platform to pay rent.

I'm quite young compared to most users on the forum, so when I first signed up on Seeking Arrangements I was simply looking to find a like-minded college girl who I can take on fancy dates, fuck regularly for $500-700/ month, and maybe develop a friendship. So far my time on there has just been a giant waste of money and unnecessary gray hairs.

I'm really contemplating creating an Instagram account and just propositioning regular, "normal" girls in my area that are aspiring models, social media influencers, or whatever the fuck. May be creepy, but simply asking if they've ever had a sugar daddy and leading them towards a fancy date where we could discuss things further shouldn't be a big deal.

My only constructive advice is if u really only have $500/month to spend on sex then find a pretty girl on SA and have sex once a month. Or find a fatty and have sex twice a month. Those things are definitely possible. But do it PPM not a monthly fee.

Apparently models don't make a whole lot and rumors have it their agents / agencies often connect them with clients for extra income. Curious if any mongers have supported any models that may know a thing or two about how clients get in touch with models agents / their agencies?

https://nypost.com/2017/08/29/model-reveals-fashion-worlds-secret-prostitution-ring

I did meet a really hot high end blonde escort with armpit hair last year who is a model. She was the one who first informed me of the sketchiness in the industry. It's typical to sign contracts, do photo shoots, but still not pay the girls after. I just may have to see her again and ask about how some of her non-escort friends make their extra income.Look I'm going to try to not be unkind here but you are misinformed or misguided in so many different ways:

You will never find a nice college girl on Seeking for $500-700/ month. Simply not going to happen. If a girl is good looking she will quickly figure out that she can charge $400+ per meetup (depending on city). And she's not going to be your friend or a true romance. It's all pretend. You are swimming in the wrong fishbowl.

Surely no model is going to even give you the time of day with that kinda cash. Yes. Some models sleep their way to the top. They sleep with the people who can advance their career. Not some guy off the street.

And the thing about doing modeling and not getting paid. This is called a scam. Yes. Happens all the time. Some guy says he's a photographer and convinces her to do shots. Maybe even sleeps with him. Maybe even makes her pay for "the proofs". Just a scam like any other. Legit photographers and agencies pay their talent.

Finally I laughed out loud in that article where the model says "I had a friend who did escort jobs and experienced unwanted sexual advances. " LOL. An escort should be EXPECTING sexual advances. That's what escorts do! It's amazing how naive some girls are and the papers and general public at large. But let's keep this our little secret.

My only constructive advice if u only have $500/month for this is either find a pretty girl on SA and have sex once a month or find a fatty and have sex twice a month. Both are very doable. Just do PPM not monthly. Good luck.

RedWaters44
09-10-21, 23:14
Look I'm going to try to not be unkind here but you are misinformed or misguided in so many different ways:

You will never find a nice college girl on Seeking for $500-700/ month. Simply not going to happen. If a girl is good looking she will quickly figure out that she can charge $400+ per meetup (depending on city). And she's not going to be your friend or a true romance. It's all pretend. You are swimming in the wrong fishbowl.

Surely no model is going to even give you the time of day with that kinda cash. Yes. Some models sleep their way to the top. They sleep with the people who can advance their career. Not some guy off the street.

And the thing about doing modeling and not getting paid. This is called a scam. Yes. Happens all the time. Some guy says he's a photographer and convinces her to do shots. Maybe even sleeps with him. Maybe even makes her pay for "the proofs". Just a scam like any other. Legit photographers and agencies pay their talent..No disrespect taken, Steve. I know how much you contribute to the forum and always enjoy reading your posts. I have learned a lot from you.

I know it's impossible to find a girl for $500/ month on Seeking, quite frankly if I found a girl on the site willing to accept that little I would be wary. It was simply my expectation prior to signing up on the website. Once I became more familiar, I was caught up to speed of course.

The story I mentioned about models not being paid was simply intel I shared from a high end escort I have met. The reason I shared the story was just to show how much work a model is willing to do in the hopes of making some cash and still end up getting scammed. By the way, the girl I met was actually scammed while shooting for a reputable clothing brand we've all heard of. I know $400 wouldn't make any girl on Seeking Arrangements yet alone high end escort turn her head, but if you take a step back and think about it, to a regular 18-19 year old college girl who barely even knows what a sugar daddy is even $50 is a lot of money.

Which brings me to my next point -- what IS the standard 18-21 year old girl used to really? Matching with boring guys on Tinder who get uncomfortable at the thought of not splitting the check. I met a really cute 8/10 petite 20 year old on WhatsYourPrice last year and invited her our for a dinner date for $100. We talked a bit and she was genuinely happy to be out of the house and said she hadn't been out on a fancy date like that in months. She wasn't a complete noob since she'd been a member on Seeking Arrangements and WYP for a year, but overall just had negative experiences so it was refreshing for her to get out the house and go on a nice date.

Now if that's what a casual user of Seeking Arrangements and what not is accustomed to, what is the average girl on Tinder used to? Step it up a notch and think about all the girls who don't even have a Tinder? Fact is there are plenty of scum girls on Tinder who brag to their friends because they literally only use the app to be taken our for a free meal. Seems like a shit ton of work to be taken out for a $40 dinner by some guy you don't plan ever plan on seeing again.

Now I know I've rambled but what I'm getting at is that I definitely think it's possible to find success DMing girls on Instagram who know nothing about the scene and attempting to establish something. Just message "Hey you're really cute. Have you ever had a sugar daddy?" and it from there -- try to establish trust. Instagram is more useful than Seeking Arrangements because you can get an actual feel of the girl -- see if she has a boyfriend, if she lives a mostly quiet life, etc. I wouldn't waste time messaging girls with 300,000 followers since they are used to flying out to Dubai to perform sexual acts, but there are plenty of "normal" women with 3,000 followers or less who would be more likely to notice a DM from a stranger. The biggest obstacle may be proving you are genuine aka not a scam, but if you have at least a somewhat put together profile and are able to send $50 to prove it then you should be able to drag them out for a nice dinner date for $200. If you made her comfortable during the dinner, you should be able to convince her to come along on an even more fun date the next time you meet and now that she is a bit more familiar with you and what a sugar daddy is, gently ask if she is comfortable enough for an overnight at an upscale hotel (chances are she's never even been in one) the next time you meet. Girls like this wouldn't know that $600 isn't the norm, I really doubt they'd even know where to research. Again, I'll admit I don't have a whole lot of experience and most of you guys are more familiar with women than me, but I don't see many faults in this process and could definitely see a girl who is not at all familiar with the scene being very happy with an additional $600 to her monthly income.

Elvis 2008
09-11-21, 02:53
Found a gem in Buenos Aires where the hooker / club scene bites. But yeah In countries with good P4 P Seeking is really not your best bet. Man how things change. BA may have been the best city in the world when I went there in 2004. Black's and Madaho's had hundreds of beauties lined up and my first Latin girl was from Madaho's. I paid her a $100 for the whole night. She massaged me for an hour straight and fucked me all night. I was like "I love Latin women" and have had that loving Latinas attitude every since. It is amazing how far down BA and Argentina have gone. I do not think the culture has changed though and maybe that is why SA could be gold in Argentina.

Gunners1
09-11-21, 05:12
Dear folks.

I am planning on my first trip to Berlin in a few weeks.

Is SA worth hunting in Berlin. What are my options. I am aware of FKK. But was wondering if there are some places to pick up semi pros. Or meet with sb.

What's your advice?

G.

Akibono
09-11-21, 05:13
No disrespect taken, Steve. I know how much you contribute to the forum and always enjoy reading your posts. I have learned a lot from you.

I know it's impossible to find a girl for $500/ month on Seeking, quite frankly if I found a girl on the site willing to accept that little I would be wary. It was simply my expectation prior to signing up on the website. Once I became more familiar, I was caught up to speed of course.

The story I mentioned about models not being paid was simply intel I shared from a high end escort I have met. The reason I shared the story was just to show how much work a model is willing to do in the hopes of making some cash and still end up getting scammed. By the way, the girl I met was actually scammed while shooting for a reputable clothing brand we've all heard of. I know $400 wouldn't make any girl on Seeking Arrangements yet alone high end escort turn her head, but if you take a step back and think about it, to a regular 18-19 year old college girl who barely even knows what a sugar daddy is even $50 is a lot of money.

Which brings me to my next point -- what IS the standard 18-21 year old girl used to really? Matching with boring guys on Tinder who get uncomfortable at the thought of not splitting the check. I met a really cute 8/10 petite 20 year old on WhatsYourPrice last year and invited her our for a dinner date for $100. We talked a bit and she was genuinely happy to be out of the house and said she hadn't been out on a fancy date like that in months. She wasn't a complete noob since she'd been a member on Seeking Arrangements and WYP for a year, but overall just had negative experiences so it was refreshing for her to get out the house and go on a nice date..If your goal is wining and dining strangers, you can spend a lot of money and get nothing in the end. Almost no girls is going to sleep with you for a meal. Most will be wary and insulted by gifts. Plus, you'll get plenty of scams. There is no free lunch. The naive learn quickly and the pros will take advantage. Plus, most of the noobs are too scared to be reliable. There are plenty of noob girls on SA. They never go anywhere. Anyone under 21 is not mature enough to understand a Sb relationship. Heck, they can't even drink. I see plenty of girls with unrealistic expectations. You are not going to find a Dorian Grey who will throw money at you for talk. Successful guys are not into entertaining girls for free. Your best bet are countries where sex is more relaxed and culturally a young girl with an older guy is acceptable. My 2 cents.

Akibono
09-11-21, 05:25
Dear folks.

I am planning on my first trip to Berlin in a few weeks.

Is SA worth hunting in Berlin. What are my options. I am aware of FKK. But was wondering if there are some places to pick up semi pros. Or meet with sb.

What's your advice?

G.Your best bet is to carefully select from the online escorts. These will be expensive compared to the FKKs. There are girls on escort sites that are semi pros, but they will expect you to afford a high end hotel and restaurant. The thing about Sb vs escort is a long term relationship. That cannot be done far away on a short trip. It is and will feel no different that an escort to the girls on SA.

Gunners1
09-11-21, 08:03
Thanks for the advice.

Will look them up. I am staying at the St. Regis Berlin.

G.


Your best bet is to carefully select from the online escorts. These will be expensive compared to the FKKs. There are girls on escort sites that are semi pros, but they will expect you to afford a high end hotel and restaurant. The thing about Sb vs escort is a long term relationship. That cannot be done far away on a short trip. It is and will feel no different that an escort to the girls on SA.

DramaFree11
09-12-21, 07:09
Update, I ditched the Middle Eastern Chick because of her bad attitude and totally laziness. I have been with a new girl. Fun.

But not like the girls from MTY. Saturday night we have dinner on the Riverwalk. My friends totally hook us.

Up at the restaurant, so much fun. We decide to go dancing. She is on the phone the whole time, but still fun. I have not been dancing for over a year because of COVID.

We were going to go home, but we decide to stay a little longer. Starts off great, but again she is on the phone. I finally, pull my phone out and start texting girls in the MTY. She grabs my phone. I say, the night is over and walk off. I forgot she parked in my parking garage.

Uber arrives she puts my hand on her crouch I pull away. No conversation on the ride home. We get to my place and she asked why I am mad and of course denies grabbing my phone,(say it is my fault.) I told her the night was over.

I will never tolerate anyone grabbing my phone, especially not my girlfriend.

I miss Mexico!

American chicks are crazy m!

Oneminuteboy
09-13-21, 14:04
Just had a weekend with the 7 I met up with. Was a fun weekend in the Netherlands. Only paid her PPM fee 1 x.

Booked a suite for the whole weekend. One bed for the both us.

We both traveled separately to the hotel after work. Had a session. Then dinner in the hotel before having our first jacuzzi moment.

Saturday was day time events. Museum, lunch, shopping (she wanted to buy stuff herself), wellness, a show and dinner. We had sex like 4-5 times throughout the day.

Sunday was sleeping in, aside from breakfast we stayed in the room all morning and had sex all the time, between short naps. Late check out and we both went our separate ways.

SB is not a native Dutchie.

The 8/9 I was planning to meet with was a let down. Reached out to late, then when the day came postponed before eventually canceling because of a friend. Told her, let me know when you got time and I'll come.

Writing this one down as a loss, despite being the SB that I matched on things I liked to do the most.

MiamiBoy1
09-13-21, 17:02
Since Argentine forum is dead, I will ask here. Has anyone had good experience with SA in Buenos Aires? I know, the country is still closed for foreign visitors, but they are about to open in the next few months. Sooner or later it will happen. The exchange rate is awesome, cash is king if you have USD. Airbnbs are cheap. My understanding is SA works way better in non-mongering countries where P4 P scene is not well developed (Argentina is one of them?) or where prostitution is illegal. Would love to go there once they open for visitors. I've heard BA got great colleges / universities, best in Latin America, therefore plenty of hot young students to choose from. What attracts me in terms of the talent, is that a good % of women there are of German / Italian ancestry, white skin, European looking. What are the going PPM rates there?

WyattEarp
09-13-21, 18:11
Apparently models don't make a whole lot and rumors have it their agents / agencies often connect them with clients for extra income. Curious if any mongers have supported any models that may know a thing or two about how clients get in touch with models agents / their agencies?

https://nypost.com/2017/08/29/model-reveals-fashion-worlds-secret-prostitution-ringThis is not a criticism of you RedWaters, but the article seems to be quoting a silly 20 year old seeking attention. I'm sure models get propositioned all the time. However, the article leads the story with fantastic sums like top models receiving two million dollars per night. Who are these models receiving two million dollar per night? If you've made it to the top of the modeling game, you really don't need to sleep with anyone for two million.

And what man pays a woman, two million dollars for a night? You can have the hottest Euro or American porn star flown to you and spend the weekend with you for a tiny fraction. Or they pull some babes off the beach to their boat or from the pool to their fancy suite at a luxury hotel.

This girl in the article is pretty, but 2,000 pounds for an hour or two? Hookers in Cannes charging 30,000 dollars a night?

This kind of reminds me of the not-so-secret secret book of available Brazilian models, presenters and starlets. You have to be in the upper echelon of Brazilian society and / or have the right introductions, but no one is paying these crazy figures down there.

NF4591
09-13-21, 20:32
Hi gents. I'm experienced with FKK clubs and agencies, and now I'm thinking of venturing into the SA scene, it sounds exciting from some of the stories here. I've been reading the forum, and posted my experiences in ISG threads where I have more experience. But I'm having trouble answering some basic questions about getting started with SA. I'm hoping someone can help with these basics. I would have thought there would be a guide that includes these basics somewhere on ISG, so maybe I'm just missing it (where's a Reports of Distinction section when you need it):

1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

Thanks in advance for your tips. I'm hoping to have some SA stories to tell myself, to share here.

Oneminuteboy
09-13-21, 22:13
1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?I use my real photo, with face. Introduce myself under an alias.

What I do is either make sure I check in before her, and if the TV shows my name in the info screen change it. Or at the front desk, immediately say my surname.

Some woman use aliases as well. Others drop the alias after the first meet.


2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?This is really difficult. A signal can be is that she doesn't ask for the money. But can leave an awkward moment when she does.

The majority needs the cash, either for school or other personal still. Might not be the case after you've met after XX times though.


3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?I keep it at a hotel. Most neutral ground possible.

One SB I had, had a guy at her place. She regretted it. A friend of mine had one at his apartment he rents out through Airbnb, though he has a 2nd house.

Midwestern
09-14-21, 02:41
I did not post a pic on my profile. I was always worried that a female colleague would see me on there. But if I was chatting with someone and I was sure she was not someone that I knew, then I would privately show her my pic. But I preferred a quick meet and greet if she insisted on seeing what I look like, and I always made it convenient for them, like near where they work or live.

You can use an alias, but use a nickname so that when they discover your real identity, then you can just say you were not really lying. And eventually, they will discover your real identify. I tried being super careful hiding my identify, but eventually almost everyone discovered my real identity, especially if they want to find your identity. I met one gal for drinks, and the next day I saw that she viewed my LinkedIn profile. On our next date, I asked her how she discovered my real identity and she laughed and said it was so easy. I do not want to list the many, many ways they can discover who you really are, because the list is super long, but just know that being anonymous forever is futile.

Do not meet at your place. Eventually, every SD SB relationship will end. Sometimes they end badly, especially if you lied a lot during the relationship. And so why would you want them to know where you live?

I used SA successfully in Vegas, but if you are there for just one night, then it may not be worth the time and effort. You can still try it, but have a backup plan, like a FS MP. Almost every AMP in Vegas offers FS, but I have not been to Vegas in the past three years, so maybe things have changed.



1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

Thanks in advance for your tips. I'm hoping to have some SA stories to tell myself, to share here.

Midwestern
09-14-21, 02:59
These kinds of dates can happen occasionally, especially with SA gals in the states. I met one gal for drinks and we hit if off. She says let's go to a hotel, and so I book one on my app. As we head there, she sees a strip club and wants to go in and I said sure. At first, we are having a blast in the strip club, and then I notice that she is getting very drunk and she starts flirting with a dancer. At this point, I am being left out and so I am bored. I tell her let's go and she says no. I am getting pretty mad, and eventually a bouncer escorts me out of the club. So then I call and text her, but she does not reply. I tell the bouncer that my GF is still in the club. So he goes to find her. She appears at the door and says that she is staying. I'm out over $500 for the night for drinks, food, cover charges, dancer tips, hotel, Ubers. Maybe it was even almost $1000.


Update, I ditched the Middle Eastern Chick because of her bad attitude and totally laziness. I have been with a new girl. Fun.

But not like the girls from MTY. Saturday night we have dinner on the Riverwalk. My friends totally hook us.

Up at the restaurant, so much fun. We decide to go dancing. She is on the phone the whole time, but still fun. I have not been dancing for over a year because of COVID.

We were going to go home, but we decide to stay a little longer. Starts off great, but again she is on the phone. I finally, pull my phone out and start texting girls in the MTY. She grabs my phone. I say, the night is over and walk off. I forgot she parked in my parking garage.

Uber arrives she puts my hand on her crouch I pull away. No conversation on the ride home. We get to my place and she asked why I am mad and of course denies grabbing my phone,(say it is my fault.) I told her the night was over.

I will never tolerate anyone grabbing my phone, especially not my girlfriend.

I miss Mexico!

American chicks are crazy m!

Akibono
09-14-21, 05:24
These kinds of dates can happen occasionally, especially with SA gals in the states. I met one gal for drinks and we hit if off. She says let's go to a hotel, and so I book one on my app. As we head there, she sees a strip club and wants to go in and I said sure. At first, we are having a blast in the strip club, and then I notice that she is getting very drunk and she starts flirting with a dancer. At this point, I am being left out and so I am bored. I tell her let's go and she says no. I am getting pretty mad, and eventually a bouncer escorts me out of the club. So then I call and text her, but she does not reply. I tell the bouncer that my GF is still in the club. So he goes to find her. She appears at the door and says that she is staying. I'm out over $500 for the night for drinks, food, cover charges, dancer tips, hotel, Ubers. Maybe it was even almost $1000.Sooner or later we all get burned. I call that the built in price for a SB. You just have to be able to take the loss and move on. The loss of time, money and opportunity is very frustrating. That is the primary difference between a SB and an escort. You never know what you are getting. As you well know, being able to correctly read people is helpful, but you have very little facts to go on. I find the uncertainty frustrating. Some people have backup plans. I find that just complicates the matter. There are just so many duds and flakes. I guess girls with their life in order usually don't choose the SB route. Still, the magic of the find makes the effort worth it. From what I gather, it is probably even more difficult for the girls. People like you who can and are willing to put up money for a good time are scarce. They have to weed through a huge pile of crap and BS artists that either don't have any money or want it for free. In the end, I know I will fail a lot, but I am not afraid of walking away. I know I can deliver the goods and if a SB thinks they can find a better deal with lose in the end. There simply are not that many people with the income, situation, and tolerance of flakes out there to be found.

Akibono
09-14-21, 05:38
First, I would log on at different times and days. I find that the SA algorithms is not very good finding girls that are not recent. There are times where the prospects are slim with mainly ugly girls. Other times, it's like hitting the jackpot. Different places have different times. Students and working people will log on the site at different times. Second, that initial conversation is critical. If you catch them online with a message, they are far more likely to respond. That gives you a chance to make a good impression and to stand out. If you are one of 100 message when they login, you will be treated as just another prospect unless something in your profit (I. E. Photo) sticks out. Plus, they may give up after the first 50 messages since they are mainly boring and canned messages. Having a good idea what the girl is looking for is a big help. If a girls profile is very thin, your chances of failure are high. She is either not treating this seriously or putting much effort into it, perhaps she thinks she can get by on her looks alone.

My 2 cents. There is no perfect approach.

Elvis 2008
09-14-21, 09:28
Has anyone had good experience with SA in Buenos Aires? I know, the country is still closed for foreign visitors, but they are about to open in the next few months. Sooner or later it will happen. The exchange rate is awesome, cash is king if you have USD. Airbnbs are cheap. My understanding is SA works way better in non-mongering countries where P4 P scene is not well developed (Argentina is one of them?) or where prostitution is illegal. Would love to go there once they open for visitors. I've heard BA got great colleges / universities, best in Latin America, therefore plenty of hot young students to choose from. What attracts me in terms of the talent, is that a good % of women there are of German / Italian ancestry, white skin, European looking. What are the going PPM rates there?The joke about Argentina is that an Argentine is an Italian who lives in a French house speaks Spanish and thinks he is an Englishmen. 70% of Argentines have Italian blood and 50% have Spanish blood. BA is more white than Des Moines to boot.

My brother said it best, "You can find an 8 in Argentine on every street corner, but I have never seen a 10 there." And he owns property there. The P4P was very developed, and I think that a female president came into power and cracked down on the P4P scene. Now it has moved from the clubs to the escort and SB scene.

When the Peso crashed the first time in 2001 or so, (it was one to one back then and now it is 100 pesos or so to the dollar) prices were crazy cheap, but I am not seeing that now. It is cheap but not that cheap. Hotel prices are higher now than they were then by a factor of 2 or 3. The escort prices I do see are $50 to $200. It is probably closer to $50.

Thing about Argentines is they have a reputation for being snobby with other Latinos. I saw that with some women. They are the most educated in Latin America. Thing is if you want to converse, and you can get into a group, I am sure there would be some great conversations. As for sex, the locals to a man said the best performing women in Argentina were not Argentines but Paraguayans. Even back then, I could get laid at a casa in Paraguay with a hotter girl for $10 or $20 than in BA and I was paying $50 to $60 there.

BA is the only place with enough women on seeking to be interesting. Cordoba is the college town. Mendoza is California like, good wine country and nice mountains, but there were not many women on the site from there.

To me, if I was going for a harem, I would choose Paraguay. Everyone says it is boring in Asuncion, and it is, but I think if you got in a routine and saw a bunch of different woman, it would be a ball. Hell, if I could be Mr. Excitement in a boring town, that is all the better. Asuncion is really fucking hard to get to and I think they have a visa requirement which keeps out the competition. You will actually find more 10's there than Argentina.

I think on average Colombia had less attractive women than Argentina but the best of Colombia beat the best of Argentina. Also, Colombian women are much sweeter. As for the best place in South America for women, it is Sao Paulo hands down. I thought the women in Rio were way, way over rated.

I was in SP in 2005 and hotel prices now are in line with what they were then. The real was at 1. 5 to the dollar and now it is 5. 2. I never had the time to make it down there last year because of work but I actually corresponded with two women from seeking there that I thought were 10's. Maybe as a group the Brazilians do not match the Argentines in intellect, but when it comes to the best of Brazil versus Argentina with regards to sex and looks, it is no contest. SP has more 10's than anywhere else in the world IMO.

A lot of Germans did settle in Southern Brazil, and I have heard the city of Curitiba is well run due to the Germanic management style they have in place unlike the rest of Brazilian government which seems to be chaotic and inefficient. Every time I talked to a cab driver about Porto Allegra, Floripa, and Curitiba, they would say "many blondes down there. ".

Don't get me wrong. Argentina is a cool place. There is a lot to see and do. It is one of the few places other than the USA I would consider living, but for women, Brazil, Paraguay, and even Colombia IMO have it beat.

BrizLad
09-14-21, 12:12
. I'm out over $500 for the night for drinks, food, cover charges, dancer tips, hotel, Ubers. Maybe it was even almost $1000.Wasn't this just a version of the classic 'overpriced drinks' scam. She will be back at the same strip joint most nights having brought in a new sucker each night.

MiamiBoy1
09-14-21, 20:51
I was in SP in 2005 and hotel prices now are in line with what they were then. The real was at 1. 5 to the dollar and now it is 5. 2. I never had the time to make it down there last year because of work but I actually corresponded with two women from seeking there that I thought were 10's. Maybe as a group the Brazilians do not match the Argentines in intellect, but when it comes to the best of Brazil versus Argentina with regards to sex and looks, it is no contest. SP has more 10's than anywhere else in the world IMO. Thanks, Elvis, but my question was more specific, I wanted to know whether SA works there or not. I spent 1 month in Rio this past summer, and my experience with SA was questionable. I had only met 1 girl off SA, but it was a 100% hit. All others either flaked, or never responded. Pickings were extra slim, for some reason SA is not popular there and girls, who signed up, are not really active. At the same time I saw plenty of hot 8+ women at the beach, bars, malls, etc, so the problem was not the talent, I know the talent is there, but the fact that they don't utilize SA or Tinder for some reason. My lack of Portuguese and pickup skills prevented me from approaching girls in public. Is it any different in Sao Paulo? Again, I'm not questioning the fact that SP has great talent, sure it does, but I'm wondering if that talent (let's say, of Scandallo quality) could be found on SA? And if so, are they more expensive or cheaper compared to Colombia?

Steve 9696
09-15-21, 00:05
Thanks, Elvis, but my question was more specific, I wanted to know whether SA works there or not. I spent 1 month in Rio this past summer, and my experience with SA was questionable. I had only met 1 girl off SA, but it was a 100% hit. All others either flaked, or never responded. Pickings were extra slim, for some reason SA is not popular there and girls, who signed up, are not really active. At the same time I saw plenty of hot 8+ women at the beach, bars, malls, etc, so the problem was not the talent, I know the talent is there, but the fact that they don't utilize SA or Tinder for some reason. My lack of Portuguese and pickup skills prevented me from approaching girls in public. Is it any different in Sao Paulo? Again, I'm not questioning the fact that SP has great talent, sure it does, but I'm wondering if that talent (let's say, of Scandallo quality) could be found on SA? And if so, are they more expensive or cheaper compared to Colombia?As discussed previously mostly good places for legal P4 P are poor for Seeking. There are exceptions but that is the rule. Thus SP and Rio will suck. One might infer therefore Argentina is good because P4 P sucks imo. I had an AMAZING Seeking girl Valentina from Buenos Aires. She was Peruvian. We were inseparable for three days and went to the sex club together. One of my top life experiences (later I flew her to London and she dumped me. Ouch). Anyhow only one datapoint. But wowza!

Steve 9696
09-15-21, 00:15
Sooner or later we all get burned. I call that the built in price for a SB. You just have to be able to take the loss and move on. The loss of time, money and opportunity is very frustrating. That is the primary difference between a SB and an escort. You never know what you are getting. As you well know, being able to correctly read people is helpful, but you have very little facts to go on. I find the uncertainty frustrating. Some people have backup plans. I find that just complicates the matter. There are just so many duds and flakes. I guess girls with their life in order usually don't choose the SB route. Still, the magic of the find makes the effort worth it. From what I gather, it is probably even more difficult for the girls. People like you who can and are willing to put up money for a good time are scarce. They have to weed through a huge pile of crap and BS artists that either don't have any money or want it for free. In the end, I know I will fail a lot, but I am not afraid of walking away. I know I can deliver the goods and if a SB thinks they can find a better deal with lose in the end. There simply are not that many people with the income, situation, and tolerance of flakes out there to be found.So true. I got burned once. (Valentina) Learned my lesson. And the amount of work is epic. But having successfully bedded 28 girls on SA in the last two years (with a damn pandemic!) and currently fucking Kayla bareback every night I'the say yeah. Life is good and SA rocks!

Nounce
09-15-21, 05:00
but I'm wondering if that talent (let's say, of Scandallo quality) could be found on SA? Have you been to Scandallo? Having read your posts before, I am a little surprised that you use it as a standard for girls as almost anyone can get in. And why not just go there?

Akibono
09-15-21, 06:09
So true. I got burned once. (Valentina) Learned my lesson. And the amount of work is epic. But having successfully bedded 28 girls on SA in the last two years (with a damn pandemic!) and currently fucking Kayla bareback every night I'the say yeah. Life is good and SA rocks!I have had a lot of paid encounters. Most are good but forgettable, but a small number are just so good and so rare. You spend a lifetime chasing more. They may not all be found as SBs. For some reason you clicked. It was the right place at the right time. And she enjoyed fucking you silly. I know a few girls that enjoy pleasing a man as long as she trusts and feels safe with you. They are all too rare and too after taken.

Steve 9696
09-15-21, 14:53
My thoughts:

1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

Steve — I do not have a photo and never felt it a hindrance. The girls will generally ask at some point. Newbies tend to ask early and pros not at all. Tho sometimes newbies don't even ask or ask late because they are awkward with the whole thing.

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

Steve — Def FWB is best indicator. You will find girls without that tag that will hook up first date. But FWB is a more sure screen.

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

Steve — Always hotel. Never let a girl in your personal space. Checkin by yourself (she can wait in lobby or show up later) because you don't want desk clerk saying your name out loud. Midwestern is right that longer term girls will prob figure out your name. But still take as many precautions as possible. (P.S. Hotel tv usually has your name on first screen).

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

Steve — Hell yes you can have an amazing one night date in vegas. Best to say you are there a couple nights. But I have had two top 5 SA dates in Vegas. And one was Alexa that I flew to Miami. So our vegas connection was the key to something longer term.

MiamiBoy1
09-15-21, 15:57
Have you been to Scandallo? Having read your posts before, I am a little surprised that you use it as a standard for girls as almost anyone can get in. And why not just go there?Because I don't want to be charged by the hour, be in a rush, pay all those extra fees to the establishment and fuck in a tiny room. And I'm not a weekend warrior.

Nounce
09-15-21, 21:58
Because I don't want to be charged by the hour, be in a rush, pay all those extra fees to the establishment and fuck in a tiny room. And I'm not a weekend warrior.But it is none of that. Room, maybe but like everywhere else it can be extended and you don't need to fuck in their room. It's a fun place. A little more expensive, but worth it.

MiamiBoy1
09-15-21, 23:26
But it is none of that. Room, maybe but like everywhere else it can be extended and you don't need to fuck in their room. It's a fun place. A little more expensive, but worth it.I'm not saying it is not a fun place, but my best dates with SA girls beat my best brothels / strip clubs session by a huge margin. Scandallo is a good option for weekend warriors, high ballers or someone who prefers to grab and go, but not really my scene.

I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.

WyattEarp
09-16-21, 00:09
Because I don't want to be charged by the hour, be in a rush, pay all those extra fees to the establishment and fuck in a tiny room. And I'm not a weekend warrior.That's fair. While the Rio de Janeiro scene and perhaps other parts of the globe have become more transactional (for every hour), some of my buddies didn't like the termas / prive scenes where you had an allotted amount of time in a small room. They would rather chat up the Mabs, Dolce Vita girls and establish a vibe where the girl wasn't running out the door the minute the one or two hours had expired.

I haven't been to SE Asia in awhile, but I've had some great times hanging out with the girls there after the sex was over. I still remember a Thai woman whose looks and body would have competed with Tia Carrere in her prime. I paid her $100 per day and she showed me all over Bangkok. There was of course the nights and the relaxed afternoon quickie between touring. She even wanted me to stay in her apartment, but I still kept a cheap room at a hotel nearby.

Is it still that easy to hang out with working girls off the clock in SE Asia?

The Cane
09-16-21, 00:40
I'm not saying it is not a fun place, but my best dates with SA girls beat my best brothels / strip clubs session by a huge margin. Scandallo is a good option for weekend warriors, high ballers or someone who prefers to grab and go, but not really my scene.

I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.I think it would be pretty easy to establish a sugar baby relationship with a hot Scandallo girl. I haven't because I don't live in Brazil. But if I did, wow have I met some "candidates". Plenty of hotties willing to be sponsored.

BrizLad
09-16-21, 00:40
I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.MiamiBoy1 can you help me understand this, what is the difference between being "well developed" and "Well known".

RIO & SP, P4 p is well developed therefore SA not popular.

MDE & BOG P4 p is well known therefore SA is popular.

Elvis 2008
09-16-21, 03:18
I'm not saying it is not a fun place, but my best dates with SA girls beat my best brothels / strip clubs session by a huge margin. Scandallo is a good option for weekend warriors, high ballers or someone who prefers to grab and go, but not really my scene.

I guess SA is not popular in both Rio and SP, because P4 P scene is well developed. On the other hand, in places like MDE or BOG, well known for p4 p scene, SA is highly utilized along with FB and Tinder.I do not think that is how it works. What is happening in Colombia with SA is the same as what happened in the USA and it happens the same as in business. First you have the innovators and then the imitators and then the idiots. With SA, what happens is that you go from non-pros to semi-pros to pros. Covid did change the pattern in some places like Mexico when non-pros got back on the site after they lost their jobs.

When I first went to Bogota, I went on like 10 dates there, and only three of the women had been on dates before. With two of those three, I did not session with them because they asked for crazy money.

MB, you are telling me it is hardened now and the women only want money in Medellin. What happened with me with so many of the women is that I would meet them, explain being a SB to them, and felt obligated to pay them, but I probably did not have to. The irony is a guy here asked, why did you pay them anything? And that is when I changed my approach and recommended other guys do likewise and pay them nothing except take them to dinner ETC.

Given what you are telling me, I think now there are so many experienced and hardened women on SA in Medellin and so many guys throwing money at them that at least Medellin is at the semi-pro level and I expect Bogota to get there soon too.

Mexico was more like the USA in that there was always a payment described or implied, but there was only once I had sex on the second date, and it was my choice.

In the USA, it used to be that I would see a girl's pic, meet them in a restaurant, and always talk money. With one exception, the sex always came on the second date with me.

Each country has its own culture, laws, but probably the most important thing is how many pros are on the site. I had good luck finding a few non-pros in Medellin but unlike Bogota there were a lot of women who were incredibly short term money focused.

And in Colombia, not only were Bogota and Medellin different but so were Barranquilla and Cali. Both dates I had in Cali were with women who had never had a date before. It is places like Cali that IMO can be SA nirvana. In Barranquilla, the girls were novices as well, but they were more hardened than Cali.

Sao Paulo is not really a sex destination like Rio is. I would expect to find and chatted with women who were hot and not hard core pros. Unlike Rio, I think SP could be great. I am not paying the monthly dues now and just for shit and giggles, I clicked on a few women I found attractive in SP and they favorited me and sent me messages. (I did get a similar response from women in BA). Because Rio and Medellin are two of the most popular sex destinations, I would expect SA to suck because of how many pros would be on the site in those cities.

But MB, I do not think you get the Buenos Aires market. BA like SP was not really that much of a sex destination, but there are / were a lot of pros there like there are in SP. For a few years, it was great and then there was a crackdown, so you have all these people who either know about or were pros that potentially can get on SA and sell their wares. That is not an issue with SP where women have the option to be pros and advertise as pros if they want to. In BA, SA is going to attract a lot of pros.

I do not know that BA is bad for SA, but I could tell from the women I was chatting with that there was a hardened edge that I do not like. Argentina was not at the level of the USA (I don't know if anywhere else is that bad) but probably at the Mexico level of hardened women and having been there, that is what I expected. The hard edge with Mexican women is out of fear. With Argentine women, the hardness comes from arrogance.

I banged a boat load of Argentine women and with most they had an attitude that I should have just been happy to be with them. They do not have the desire to please like Brazilian or Colombian women.

The last two SBs in Colombia I had that evolved into GFs did the same thing when I asked them if they could clip my toenails. I just wanted them clipped, but both of the women went on their hands and knees and gave me like a 30 minute pedicure. I would expect a Brazilian woman to be similar. They really want to please their man.

I think the Argentine and Mexican women would do as I asked and just clip my nails, and I would expect an American woman to say, "I am not doing that. Why don't you pay for a pedicure like I do you cheap SOB!

Nounce
09-16-21, 05:21
Sao Paulo is not really a sex destination like Rio is. I would expect to find and chatted with women who were hot and not hard core pros. Unlike Rio, I think SP could be great.SP is a great sex destination. It took me a few days to find out and now I don't want to go to any other cities. LOL.

If one has never been to Scandallo, how can the person knows what girls in Scandallo look like and uses them as a reference point? That is why I asked. I have found girls on Seeking that are similar to what I can find in Scandallo but personally I don't think girls at Scandallo are that special on average. Right now, there is no point using Seeking when it is so easy elsewhere.

The sex is pretty good even at the low cost clinica / casa. You get clean towel, clean bed sheet, hot shower, GFE. The only difference is the girl's look and they actually look pretty good. Just this week, a clinica girl asked me to lie down after sex and treated me like a baby going to sleep until time is up. I was shocked! This is the opposite of paying more for better service.

Elvis 2008
09-16-21, 05:33
We were going to go home, but we decide to stay a little longer. Starts off great, but again she is on the phone. I finally, pull my phone out and start texting girls in the MTY. She grabs my phone. I say, the night is over and walk off. I forgot she parked in my parking garage.

Uber arrives she puts my hand on her crouch I pull away. No conversation on the ride home. We get to my place and she asked why I am mad and of course denies grabbing my phone,(say it is my fault.) I told her the night was over.

I will never tolerate anyone grabbing my phone, especially not my girlfriend.
DF,

The flight to Monterrey from San Antonio on Viva is an hour and less than $300 round trip, and you can go and return in a day. I get the convivence of having a woman close by, but I have done the American route before, and it was fine when I did not know any better, but I do now.

Thing is even after you weed out the greedy ones and the crazies, you are left with women who for the most part have had multiple SDs before. You are always second best, and the women are ashamed to introduce you to anyone. That is fine for married guys, but I had one woman tell me, "I have much lower standards for a SD than I do a boyfriend. " I wanted to stay, "Standing right here, b!" Thing is that she just said to me what most other women think.

For whatever reason, American women are trained to hate things or a group of people like men than an individual close to them like their child or husband. Give a woman a chance to blame anything or anyone other than her or a family member in American culture, and she will gladly do it. I was watching this video and if you go to the five minute mark, you will see a celebrated woman named Carrie Nation who was a prohibitionist and loved smashing up bars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGIi62-sAU.

It showed me that for forever in our culture that women could break any law and act like idiots as long as they wore some kind of moral cape. In reality, Carrie was mourning the loss of her alcoholic husband and instead of putting the blame on him (and she probably in part blamed herself), she took it out on alcohol itself. "Ladies, you do not know how much joy you have until you smash, smash, smash. " Carrie Nation is not seen as a vandal who should have been locked up for life but a fucking hero.

I assume everyone here knows what machismo is, but there is a feminine part called marianismo, and it is this element where Latin women separate themselves from their American counterparts. You can read the whole thing here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianismo, but this is the part I wanted to mention: According to marianismo, Hispanic women should withhold personal thoughts and needs in order to avoid disagreement. Adherence to this belief is linked with significantly higher rates of psychological distress, depression, and anxiety in Hispanic women and young girls. It also influences women to stay in violent interpersonal relationships. Many Hispanic women perceive that "keeping things inside" causes their depression.

You can even see that this crap is written by some judgmental American / Westerner. I am sorry I do not agree that a culture that makes a Carrie Nation a hero is a superior one.

But my point is this: you are fighting a battle that is way bigger than yourself. It is a cultural thing. A woman acting like an idiot and blaming a man for all her problems is not looked down upon like it is in the Latin culture. Hell, in American culture, we celebrate it and reward it and to me, it is fruitless to try to tame that beast.

Elvis 2008
09-16-21, 06:26
SP is a great sex destination. It took me a few days to find out and now I don't want to go to any other cities. LOL.It sure is. What I meant is SP is not tainted by the ho culture like Vegas, Medellin, or Rio. There are a ton of hot nonpros in SP.


If one has never been to Scandallo, how can the person knows what girls in Scandallo look like and uses them as a reference point? That is why I asked. I have found girls on Seeking that are similar to what I can find in Scandallo but personally I don't think girls at Scandallo are that special on average. Right now, there is no point using Seeking when it is so easy elsewhere.

The sex is pretty good even at the low cost clinica / casa. You get clean towel, clean bed sheet, hot shower, GFE. The only difference is the girl's look and they actually look pretty good. Just this week, a clinica girl asked me to lie down after sex and treated me like a baby going to sleep until time is up. I was shocked! This is the opposite of paying more for better service.I always said the reason I used seeking is that I wanted fun both in and out of the bedroom. What you confirmed is that Brazilian women know how to treat their man, and they are a ton of fun to boot. I never had a woman stay the night and wake me up with a BJ, and it happened like every time in Brazil.

IMO you would get treated like your casa girl x 100 from a good find on seeking in SP. The only other country where IMO I could find a SB that could match what I found in Colombia is Brazil. Maybe you can find it in Thailand or the Philippines but I have not been there for sex.

DramaFree11
09-17-21, 03:19
DF,

The flight to Monterrey from San Antonio on Viva is an hour and less than $300 round trip, and you can go and return in a day. I get the convivence of having a woman close by, but I have done the American route before, and it was fine when I did not know any better, but I do now.

Thing is even after you weed out the greedy ones and the crazies, you are left with women who for the most part have had multiple SDs before. You are always second best, and the women are ashamed to introduce you to anyone. That is fine for married guys, but I had one woman tell me, "I have much lower standards for a SD than I do a boyfriend. " I wanted to stay, "Standing right here, b!" Thing is that she just said to me what most other women think.

For whatever reason, American women are trained to hate things or a group of people like men than an individual close to them like their child or husband. Give a woman a chance to blame anything or anyone other than her or a family member in American culture, and she will gladly do it. I was watching this video and if you go to the five minute mark, you will see a celebrated woman named Carrie Nation who was a prohibitionist and loved smashing up bars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGIi62-sAU.

It showed me that for forever in our culture that women could break any law and act like idiots as long as they wore some kind of moral cape. In reality, Carrie was mourning the loss of her alcoholic husband and instead of putting the blame on him (and she probably in part blamed herself), she took it out on alcohol itself. "Ladies, you do not know how much joy you have until you smash, smash, smash. " Carrie Nation is not seen as a vandal who should have been locked up for life but a fucking hero..Agree 1000%. I like San Antonio and it is nice to have someone to hang out with, but it is a losing game. This is why I put very little time or energy into American girls. I just shake my head at the way they dress, there behavior and just there substance abuse issues. 95% of my resources are put into Mexico.

By the way I am looking at traveling to Mexico City. A friend speaks very highly of M. See.

DramaFree11
09-17-21, 03:26
I do not think that is how it works. What is happening in Colombia with SA is the same as what happened in the USA and it happens the same as in business. First you have the innovators and then the imitators and then the idiots. With SA, what happens is that you go from non-pros to semi-pros to pros. Covid did change the pattern in some places like Mexico when non-pros got back on the site after they lost their jobs.

When I first went to Bogota, I went on like 10 dates there, and only three of the women had been on dates before. With two of those three, I did not session with them because they asked for crazy money.

MB, you are telling me it is hardened now and the women only want money in Medellin. What happened with me with so many of the women is that I would meet them, explain being a SB to them, and felt obligated to pay them, but I probably did not have to. The irony is a guy here asked, why did you pay them anything? And that is when I changed my approach and recommended other guys do likewise and pay them nothing except take them to dinner ETC.

Given what you are telling me, I think now there are so many experienced and hardened women on SA in Medellin and so many guys throwing money at them that at least Medellin is at the semi-pro level and I expect Bogota to get there soon too.

Mexico was more like the USA in that there was always a payment described or implied, but there was only once I had sex on the second date, and it was my choice...My recommendations pick one destination and put all his time / resources to finding amazing girls. If you keep hoping around, it makes it more difficult, if not impossible to find the upper tier girls.

It appears to me he Looking for the Golden Ticket without putting in the work.

Elvis 2008
09-17-21, 15:56
Agree 1000%. I like San Antonio and it is nice to have someone to hang out with, but it is a losing game. This is why I put very little time or energy into American girls. I just shake my head at the way they dress, there behavior and just there substance abuse issues. 95% of my resources are put into Mexico.

By the way I am looking at traveling to Mexico City. A friend speaks very highly of M. See.I have been going to Mexico City a lot here lately, and I love it. We went to the castle there and the anthropology museum and a female friend of mine came with us. She said it was the best museum she had ever been to, and it was one of the best I had seen as well.

Rents in Monterrey are nuts, but they are not too bad in Mexico City, and I am tired of paying for hotels, but I am almost at Ambassador level at Marriott. Maybe we could split the cost of a place there if you are interested.

We had met in Cancun several times but I was ready to see other parts of the country. We went to Cabo this time, and we loved it. I never had marlin before and damn that tasted as good as the finest steaks. Food in Cabo was fantastic and outside of the resorts it is not too expensive. I rented a car, and driving there was fine.

The two beach areas I have wanted to check out are in Oaxaca and Acapulco, and you have to go through Mexico City to get there which is fine. Even though the airport there is a pain, there are a ton of flights to Mexico City, and they are cheap.

After that I want to check out more areas near Cabo like La paz and Loreto. They look amazing. Apparently, Jacques Cousteau called the Gulf of California the world's aquarium.

I have been talking to people about what to do with my gal. Education visa does not look feasible, so if I want her in the USA, I have to do the marriage route, but people are asking me why I cannot keep things the same. I have been thinking that maybe I could work two weeks here and live two weeks in Mexico. Both she and I are allowed six months per year in Mexico.

I thought it might slow down sexually but it has not. She wants sex three times a day at least, and I have to stop telling her to give me head. She walks in a room and is so striking everyone checks her out, and she still has not asked for a dime. She would literally do anything I want. Anyone else sexually would be a let down after her. Her stamina in the bed room is unfucking real. After a few days with her, I usually get all fucked out.

For guys who cannot be too far away, it seems like Mexico City could server as a gateway for men who want to bring women in from Colombia or other Latin countries like Brazil or Argentina. For the most part, visas are not required from Latin America to Mexico.

Until recently, I had been able to see my gal every 2 weeks, and the distance has not been an issue. When we go 3 or 4 weeks, it has been much harder. Having a home base in Mexico City opens up possibilities.

And there are plenty of hotties in Mexico City to boot. Seeking is good there, but I think value wise, it is the best P4P city in North America, much better and cheaper than Monterrey.

Alex7J
09-17-21, 16:03
Agree 1000%. I like San Antonio and it is nice to have someone to hang out with, but it is a losing game. This is why I put very little time or energy into American girls. I just shake my head at the way they dress, there behavior and just there substance abuse issues. 95% of my resources are put into Mexico.

By the way I am looking at traveling to Mexico City. A friend speaks very highly of M. See.There is so much SA pussy in CDMX that it is amazing. Last year was there for 3 months in the covid lockdown and every single day I had a new SB ready to meet but I'm not young so 3 SB every week was enough for me. Don't give them $100 but 2500 pesos ($110) plus taxi and she is super happy plus dinner and drinks.

Office Girls.

Nurses.

Students.

Workers.

You name it and I did them and rarely I repeat a girl unless she is super sexy in bed.

Threesomes.

Bi sexual girls.

Everything was on offer.

Globo
09-17-21, 18:30
I have been using SA for a few years now in Las Vegas, Europe and the Middle East. I am still friendly with a few ladies some are still active there. I will answer your questions based on my experience. One of my best experiences was on a trip to Vegas.

1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? It sounds like some of these SA meets last several hours, so it would be nice to avoid awkward situations where it's obvious you're faking (like if you show your ID at a hotel or something) - but maybe it's normal to have an alias, and the girls aren't phased by it?

My Take on this Always have a photo but you can have one that does not readily identify you and have other private that you can share. Depending where you are using SA remember you will be competing again lots of other men so you need to also stand out. If in doubt set up an alter ego female profile so you can see what the competition is presenting. Showing a natural dating type photo will work much better for you and you can disable once you trip is over. As for you name, if it goes on for a long time they will know who you are so use your first name but not your surname. If using on a short trip what is the harm of them knowing your first name. Like any mongering be careful not to share too much personal info. I have had people threaten to blackmail me but there was nothing to blackmail me for, they were just desperate people in desperate situations. Please remember that the ladies are not always what they seem as well. There are lots of fake profiles.

2. It sounds like SA girls really don't want to be seen as too transactional, so are there shortcuts to find ones that are more DTF than others? I'm filtering on 'friends with benefits' and 'no strings attached', but maybe there's a better way?

My Take on this There is a huge mix of ladies on SA. Some are looking for guys to pay for their lifestyles but will give nothing in return. Some are curious, some are interested in finding a husband etc. It is a number game. Start chatting to as many as possible that catch your eye. I usually ask if they have had an arrangement before and how did it work for them. I tell them I have had a few longer term arrangements to break the ice and then try and see if we have similar interests before then asking their expectation $. This give me an idea of their seriousness. Some say they re looking for $$ for a date. In my experience the $ seems to similar across the place I was $250 - $500 for a date. I always say we should meet for coffee first to see neither of us are axe murderers.

3. I live in a city where it sounds like there are plenty of SBs to be found. But do you have girls over to your own place in your home city, or just get a hotel? I'd rather not be at home because I don't want the girl seeing my personal stuff that they can tie to my identity, or showing up at my place uninvited after we were supposed to part ways. But maybe I'm overthinking it?

My Take on this I have always gone for a hotel or apartment, see how you get on and take form there. If you have a long term thing they will find out who you are but you need to build that trust and remember both your and their safety. Also SA is not about just a hook up you can wine and dine them if you like or even just go for a drink first. Sometimes they are DTF but usually not.

4. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and that seems like a great place to try SA since I can be anonymous and staying in a hotel. But I'll only have one free night, and it seems like a lot of the SA stories here have multiple encounters to get real payback. Is worth even trying if I only have one night in Vegas?

My Take on this I used SA for the first proper time in Vegas. I was there for a week. There was a lot of groundwork so 1 night might be too little to get the full benefit but you will still enjoy yourself if you start a week in advance and line up a few people. You may need to have a a few dates as some will not turn up or cancel at the last min.

DramaFree11
09-18-21, 02:07
I have been going to Mexico City a lot here lately, and I love it. We went to the castle there and the anthropology museum and a female friend of mine came with us. She said it was the best museum she had ever been to, and it was one of the best I had seen as well.

Rents in Monterrey are nuts, but they are not too bad in Mexico City, and I am tired of paying for hotels, but I am almost at Ambassador level at Marriott. Maybe we could split the cost of a place there if you are interested.

We had met in Cancun several times but I was ready to see other parts of the country. We went to Cabo this time, and we loved it. I never had marlin before and damn that tasted as good as the finest steaks. Food in Cabo was fantastic and outside of the resorts it is not too expensive. I rented a car, and driving there was fine.

The two beach areas I have wanted to check out are in Oaxaca and Acapulco, and you have to go through Mexico City to get there which is fine. Even though the airport there is a pain, there are a ton of flights to Mexico City, and they are cheap..Yep, it is definitely cheaper then MTY, who would guess that. I have negotiated great rates in MTY, but it might be time for a change. Most of the girls I am meeting are 20-25 and real can not travel or do not want to travel.

I am looking for older girls that have the opportunity and desire to travel. Also, it would be nice to meet girls that can meet me in the states.

I am going for Thanksgiving if you are interested.

Off the topic there is way to much censorship going on this site and some Admin. Have developed way too much power. I follow the rules, but somehow my posts are deleted, because Admin does not agree with my point of view. Total be. S. They let there buddies get away with murder. I am cutting way back on my posts. Midwestern does a great job.

Steve 9696
09-18-21, 20:52
Didn't write this up right after so not my usual detail but you guys deserve an update. And to remind all the newbies that if you put in the work (and have some $ in the US) you can have some amazing experiences.

So Kayla is the stunner that I met about a month ago and liked so much we played bareback boyfriend girlfriend for three days with her totally moving into my hotel. This trip was a quick turn but still awesome.

I arrived at night and we met up at our favorite Asian fusion place. OMG it is so good. Some wine and back to the hotel. It was great to see her and her 10 body so we got right down to business. I will note that we are a shade off of how awesome it was last time. Our kissing is less tongue and she didn't fully shave her pussy. Maybe she's getting a bit too comfy. Don't get me wrong. It was great. But I am noticing little corners cut.

Anyhow the bareback sex was spectacular and her BJ remains awesome. Went a super long time. We talked about how she can't really get an O without a vibrator (not going to fake like most girls) but after a super long time of fucking she had a small O. She threw one arm over her face and then the other and then squeezed down tight and released. After some deep breaths She said what the fuck was that. That never happens. So that was cool. She finished me by mouth CIM and we crashed like big dogs.

Day two she was off work so we were able to sleep in then kick around looking for brunch. We went to the sex shop for a vibrator but she was too embarrassed to go in during the day. Said she has to work up her courage. So I went in and bought her a nice medium size one (no insert. Just clit). Was not cheap but I've decided I'm not going to look at it as the cost of sex which is already agreed but instead treat her like my real girlfriend. And I would do that for her.

Well I was rewarded well for this POV because after lunch when we went to the room to regroup she emerged in a two piece red lingerie with tits pouring out the top. We had some damn fine fully sober sex which I don't do often. So while it didn't last as long it felt AMAZING. Especially the BJ. OMG.

About midway thru, the vibrator had enough charge and we broke that bad boy out. First some FIV and her vibing. She was edging so as to not cum too soon. Eventually we went to the edge of the bed me standing position. This is not only great for not getting tired but she can vibe her clit while being fucked. And oh boy did she like that! Wasnt too long before she had a crashing O. The real deal she clamped her legs closed on me but then literally pushed me out while she crashed the waves. I let her recover a bit and got in some more strokes then moved to BJ and let it loose CIM again. We went to the speakeasy and strip club that night but then just crashed. I was wiped.

Final day we had an amazing canal-side lunch and she marveled at how I am showing her around her own town. She really likes doing the high end stuff. Late night we were both tired (she did a ten hour day on her feet!) and just watched Netflix in bed together and had sushi in bed. The sex was a bit perfunctory but I have to say she was a trooper she was really not feeling all that great but we got down to business and got er done.

Can't say it was as awesome as our first time but in some ways the new comfort level was nice as well. Thinking we are prob only good for another visit or two and onto something new and spicy but damn she's pretty, a quality human, and bareback. Hard to beat. Will just play by ear. But as I've said before fellas SA completely worth all the work.

BrizLad
09-18-21, 23:14
1. I'm concerned about my privacy. Do you post your photos on SA? And do you they include your face? Also, do you introduce yourself to girls with your real name? .My take on this. I'm always starting with a false name, which I can later explain as being my "school years nickname' but you can now call me BrizLad she prefers.

My fake personal details have been honed over 30 years of lying. I have standard prepared answers for the standard expected questions like, What's your job? How many kids? What happened to your wife? Are you divorced? Where do you live? Where have you travelled etc etc etc.

If the questions go off on a tangent then I will use 'opposites" have I three boys instead of three girls etc.

My pic I source from: https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ . I reload the page until I find a similar pic to me. Similar but different. To be honest, girls that obsess about 'looks' I am not successful with, so this generic pic approach is part of the selection process.

For the girls that have passed the first few meets, then I will open up some more.

As I am playing locally at the moment I am cautious that one of these girls will see me and family in the city streets. Her: "Hey, Jeff from Sydney, great sex, when we meeting again. " . Me & family: no reaction because I'm Brizlad from Brisbane.

Brizlad.

Steve 9696
09-20-21, 14:20
So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.

Here are the prerequisites though. Must have a beautiful face. Must kiss like a demon. And you need Viagra.

The last two are related. Let's face it you are not going to get it up at my age just looking at a girl and certainly not a fat girl. But when you start kissing and it's really great oh yeah I'm coming to attention. And with the Viagra it then stays up. Doesn't matter that she's fat once you get it going and have a great BJ and the rest as long as you are Vitamin V powered there will be no sag and tap out. Enjoy her like u would her slim counterpart. Of course you have to like her because you might tolerate a slim biatch (I don't) but not a fat one. LOL.

While on the subject I just tried Cialis for the first time. Since I tend to do long weekend binge fucks it would be just a lot more convenient. Sure enough it works so far. Popped it around dinner yesterday and no problem getting rock hard this AM. We will see tomorrow. And same basic side effects for me. Feel a bit flushed initially and slightly off but that fades after an hour or two. I use Lumify eye drops to counteract the red eye and they are amazing.

Good luck with the meds and the fatties out there guys. Don't dis it till I have tried it!

DramaFree11
09-20-21, 16:01
So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.

Here are the prerequisites though. Must have a beautiful face. Must kiss like a demon. And you need Viagra.

The last two are related. Let's face it you are not going to get it up at my age just looking at a girl and certainly not a fat girl. But when you start kissing and it's really great oh yeah I'm coming to attention. And with the Viagra it then stays up. Doesn't matter that she's fat once you get it going and have a great BJ and the rest as long as you are Vitamin V powered there will be no sag and tap out. Enjoy her like u would her slim counterpart. Of course you have to like her because you might tolerate a slim biatch (I don't) but not a fat one. LOL.

While on the subject I just tried Cialis for the first time. Since I tend to do long weekend binge fucks it would be just a lot more convenient. Sure enough it works so far. Popped it around dinner yesterday and no problem getting rock hard this AM. We will see tomorrow. And same basic side effects for me. Feel a bit flushed initially and slightly off but that fades after an hour or two. I use Lumify eye drops to counteract the red eye and they are amazing.

Good luck with the meds and the fatties out there guys. Don't dis it till I have tried it!Yep, the Meds help. I am on a 2 day binge in MTY. Killing it.

I will not do the big girls, but I will go ugly if they have a nice body.

One girl just left and the other is on the way!

Mexico, Russia Rock! Censorship because you do not like someone point of view is really wrong.

WyattEarp
09-21-21, 20:58
So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.Hi Steve,

I like your take on fat girls need lovin' too. I'm not being sarcastic.

Just curious, in your opinion what weight qualifies a girl as a fat girl? The term curvy is overused. Some girls who self-define as curvy are two dozen pounds overweight and some are several dozen pounds overweight.

Akibono
09-21-21, 23:58
Hi Steve,

I like your take on fat girls need lovin' too. I'm not being sarcastic.

Just curious, in your opinion what weight qualifies a girl as a fat girl? The term curvy is overused. Some girls who self-define as curvy are two dozen pounds overweight and some are several dozen pounds overweight.I consider a girl fat if she has folds and obvious cellulite as well as a saggy face. There are many girls who would be considered fat by weight alone, but are actually quite attractive. Pamela Anderson is curvy and Anna Nichole Smith also fits the mold.

I laugh at the guys on the FKK link that brag about the fact they only bang models. These folks pretend to have endless money but troll in clubs. Most spend their time telling everyone how good a lover they are with no details or travel plans. A pure waste of forum space to stroke their egos. A girl with an attitude that does not kiss, with a load of restrictions, is the worst libido killer. Even a fat girl is better if she has the right attitude. The best monger is the one who takes advantage of any situation that offers sex. I know of a few guys that have banged girls all over the world. They include the young as well as the old. All races. And even some less attractive girls.

Steve 9696
09-22-21, 01:23
Hi Steve,

I like your take on fat girls need lovin' too. I'm not being sarcastic.

Just curious, in your opinion what weight qualifies a girl as a fat girl? The term curvy is overused. Some girls who self-define as curvy are two dozen pounds overweight and some are several dozen pounds overweight.Yeah let me start by saying I am a big non fan of how fat America has gotten. It's appalling to go thru the Atlanta or Charlotte airport having just traveled overseas at what a cattle call it is. I trybnot to be a judgy human but can't help myself on this point. Kayla and I were just talking about this. There is no such thing as a BBW. Ok some have a damn pretty face but being fat is nothing we should glorify or call beautiful (off soapbox).

I'the say the fat girls I fuck are likely between 20-40 lbs overweight. They are large all over and some places downright fat but thanks to their age it's not cellulite or extra jiggly. I don't think I could do a 200 lb girl regardless of face and viagra. I guess I have a limit at some point.

And yeah In the US "curvy" is a euphemism for fat. I sometimes point this out to SA girls who are just built but put curvy in their profile. because guys aren't fools and screen curvy girls. The built girls usually appreciate the tip. Actually that is how I met my longest term SB Layla. With that opener. Did turn out to be heavy bordering on fat but damn that face could launch ships.

Ps in the end Layla let me video her blowing me and fucking her doggie style with full face. It’s a trust thing u can develop with SBs. Kayla sent me a full frontal with face nude video after our second weekend together. It feels good when u get inside their circle of trust.

Steve 9696
09-22-21, 01:57
So I've said before that staying in touch long term can pay off (like Vegas Alexa nearly a year after first date we did the Miami trip). There's a girl in London I am totally smitten with. We had a one night SB thing in London in Feb 2020 right before the pandemic. We've stayed in loose touch snd I was thrilled today when I sent a clever comment on her WhatsApp new profile pic and she responded back. Exchanged some nice emojis And then just a pic of her out on the town (she's connected to London fashion somehow and is always in some epic venue in an evening dress. LOL). Anyhow just made my day. We are still connected and the post pandemic possibilities are endless!

Reminded me tho of my London dilemma. Have an off the books escort there that seems wildly into me (surely just a great act but I don't push it) So I have this dilemma of who to see when things open up. It reminded me of dinner with her. She's quite the horny wildcat and grabbing my dick under the dinner table whenever the waiter has his back turned. Somehow we got to the topic of adoption snd she blurts out "You should adopt me!. Then you can fuck me any time you want!" Damn I love me a spicy wildcat!

Spidy
09-22-21, 02:46
I will not do the big girls, but I will go ugly if they have a nice body.Oh yeah! I concur whole heartedly. Throw in a good attitude and that's the secret sauce to a great romp.

I love a good, "Butterface" girl, with a terrific sexy attitude...kkk


So I mentioned before that I've grown to be quite comfortable with fat girls on SA and in some ways enjoy them as much as fit girls. I suppose I've been with 4 fat girls on SA and have not regretted the experience. Given that finding a local girl where I live that is slim and pretty is tough, I've been dating a fat girl and I rather like her. In all cases they were fabulous kissers and gave a great BJ. And the mechanics work surprisingly well.


Curvy Thick Fat...I'the say the fat girls I fuck are likely between 20-40 lbs overweight. They are large all over and some places downright fat but thanks to their age it's not cellulite or extra jiggly. I don't think I could do a 200 lb girl regardless of face and viagra. I guess I have a limit at some point...This is a tough one to dissect. I draw the line at "fat" chicks, but I do love "thick" chicks. I find the distinction between fat and thick chicks, is so very hard to explain or describe at times, but all I know for sure is, I sure as hell know it when I see it.

Is there a distinction for you? Or are they both, one in the same to you?

DramaFree11
09-22-21, 03:21
Yeah let me start by saying I am a big non fan of how fat America has gotten. It's appalling to go thru the Atlanta or Charlotte airport having just traveled overseas at what a cattle call it is. I trybnot to be a judgy human but can't help myself on this point. Kayla and I were just talking about this. There is no such thing as a BBW. Ok some have a damn pretty face but being fat is nothing we should glorify or call beautiful (off soapbox).

I'the say the fat girls I fuck are likely between 20-40 lbs overweight. They are large all over and some places downright fat but thanks to their age it's not cellulite or extra jiggly. I don't think I could do a 200 lb girl regardless of face and viagra. I guess I have a limit at some point.

And yeah In the US "curvy" is a euphemism for fat. I sometimes point this out to SA girls who are just built but put curvy in their profile. because guys aren't fools and screen curvy girls. The built girls usually appreciate the tip. Actually that is how I met my longest term SB Layla. With that opener. Did turn out to be heavy bordering on fat but damn that face could launch ships.

Ps in the end Layla let me video her blowing me and fucking her doggie style with full face. Its a trust thing u can develop with SBs. Kayla sent me a full frontal with face nude video after our second weekend together. It feels good when u get inside their circle of trust.So true, when I was flying back Moscow, I would want to throw-up after seeing the fat American Chicks. You think your airports are bad try IAH, just disgusting. Ladies running around in there pajamas or yoga pants with there fat hanging out. I just do not understand how American women dress now. It is one thing to be fat, dressing like shit just compounds there weight. I wish I liked the big girls life would be so much easier.

DramaFree11
09-22-21, 03:29
I just got back from MTY, 7 meeting in 48 hours, what a great weekend. Included one Anal Sessions, 3 girls did rimming. All others kissing and uncovered BJ.

You guys know how I do not line Colombia, chicks especially girls from MDE, in fact I usually just block them or delete there profile. Any way I met a new girl and she was from Bogota. Great experience, very nice and a total freak, we will definitely meet again. Rules are met to be broken.

This is the first time I have been around a girl from Colombia, that I did not want to kill myself with there crappy attitudes. Another thing, I have never had s Mexican girl tell me how hot they are. Colombian girls are always telling me how hot they are, major turn off for me.

DramaFree11
09-22-21, 03:35
I have been in arrangement with the model for over a year now. She graduated from her Master Program, I agreed to buy her an expensive purse as a present. She is so humble, she never asked what the status when I would buy the purse It ended up being several months, for a variety of reasons. I bought it yesterday and then we went and had a great dinner at S. Prime. It was a great night. Honestly I was happy to buy the purse. She is a great person.

LshRoomer
09-22-21, 05:46
Oh yeah! I concur whole heartedly. Throw in a good attitude and that's the secret sauce to a great romp.

I love a good, "Butterface" girl, with a terrific sexy attitude...kkk



This is a tough one to dissect. I draw the line at "fat" chicks, but I do love "thick" chicks. I find the distinction between fat and thick chicks, is so very hard to explain or describe at times, but all I know for sure is, I sure as hell know it when I see it.

Is there a distinction for you? Or are they both, one in the same to you?This can be difficult to nail down for several reasons. Different people will have different ideas of what is overweight (and I agree that we shouldn't glorify what is obv overweight), and the baseline from which she deviates to become curvy, thick, or fat. For me, they are definitely different, but I must admit that curvy is pretty close to thick. I have a friend that even mentions "slim thick" as another designation.

Being a thin girl lover, I will bang a curvy girl, but I'd be hesitant with thick and my dick just wouldn't work with fat. Let me add some numbers to it in order to add perspective to my judging system. Take a 5'7" girl. I would say normal thin (like I like) would probably be about 125/130, curvy and thick would sit at 145,155 ish, respectively. Fat for me is hard to describe. A lot comes down to the shape of the back. If the back is wide and big due to extra meat, then that's a no go for me. I just looked up some pics. I would say fat definitely starts around 165-170.

I would probably be able to do a butter face without a doubt. At least this what I think?? Can't remember coming across any recently.

I give you guys props for being open minded when it comes to big girls. It's nice to feel some meat, but how much meat is the question. Hahahaha. LOL.

02.

Ruch888
09-22-21, 19:03
Hey all,

I am from Mumbai, India a silent reader of this wonderful page! I'm in London from next weekend. I've had my share of experiences on seeking in India some genuine ones some very average or trashy ones as well.

It will be my first time dipping my toes in London and sugaring there some guides or pointers? I've been a student for 5 years previously in the UK so I'm well versed with the city.

All help appreciated and reciprocated.

Regards.

Spidy
09-23-21, 01:29
...I give you guys props for being open minded when it comes to big girls. It's nice to feel some meat, but how much meat is the question. Just for the record, "Big Girls", or "Meaty Big Girls" aren't really my thing.

Once again it's tough to pin-point, but for me, there is a distinction between "thick girls" and "big girls".

Midwestern
09-23-21, 06:58
Fat chicks are fine with me, as long as they have huge tits. Plus, many younger fat girls are firm. It is when they get older that the fat starts to sag. So, a young firm fat girl with huge tits is awesome.

I hooked with up a young fat chick with monster tits several months ago, and I have been trying like crazy to see her again, but we keep missing each other.

Akibono
09-23-21, 07:07
Fat chicks are fine with me, as long as they have huge tits. Plus, many younger fat girls are firm. It is when they get older that the fat starts to sag. So, a young firm fat girl with huge tits is awesome.

I hooked with up a young fat chick with monster tits several months ago, and I have been trying like crazy to see her again, but we keep missing each other.I'm fine with fat girls if they have a pretty face, look young and practice good hygiene. I just avoid certain positions like CG. But all things equal, the thin ones are more attractive. I love the way some girls who are a bit overweight think they can get by saying they are "athletic." No I am not looking for weightlifters.

Globo
09-23-21, 08:12
Hey all,

I am from Mumbai, India a silent reader of this wonderful page! I'm in London from next weekend. I've had my share of experiences on seeking in India some genuine ones some very average or trashy ones as well.

It will be my first time dipping my toes in London and sugaring there some guides or pointers? I've been a student for 5 years previously in the UK so I'm well versed with the city.

All help appreciated and reciprocated.

Regards.I have not had the pleasure of playing in London with seeking but can give some feedback based on my observations on a few girls I know that have London as their location.

Firstly not all girls are based in London. London is a large hub for SB / SD and many girls in surrounding countries and throughout the UK will list London as a destination. With so many advertising in London there will be a bit more leg work to line up some ideal dates. Start early. With so many people coming in and out of London I would expect they are all pretty used to people only in the city for a short time.

I have used London as a location a few times to check it out. Many of the girls are inundated with messages so you likely need to stand out a bit. There are a lot of hardened pro type SB's on the site in London as well as some with crazy oligarch expectations. The photos and such can be a giveaway on who these are so avoid.

There are a lot more kink friendly SB's in London than many other cities I have seen so you could have some interesting play if you are interested in that.

I suppose those are general tips for every location.

WyattEarp
09-23-21, 16:31
Fat chicks are fine with me, as long as they have huge tits. Plus, many younger fat girls are firm. It is when they get older that the fat starts to sag. So, a young firm fat girl with huge tits is awesome.

I hooked with up a young fat chick with monster tits several months ago, and I have been trying like crazy to see her again, but we keep missing each other.Yep, chubby girls can carry the weight. It all seems to slide and even balloon starting in their late 20's. I had a cute friend who was a very busty chubby. By her thirties, the pounds were taking their toll in my eyes. She said guys would still want to hook up with her for a chance to roll around and play with her rack.

If you look at Seeking, the body types for curvy, athletic and average can hold a wide range of types. You'll see thin girls and outright fat girls in all of those categories. The Latinas seem to like to describe themselves as curvy. When by general American standards, some would be considered slim. It would also seem you get a lot of photo manipulation. Faces and bodies look very different from one photo to the next.

Elvis 2008
09-23-21, 23:26
You guys know how I do not line Colombia, chicks especially girls from MDE, in fact I usually just block them or delete there profile. Any way I met a new girl and she was from Bogota. Great experience, very nice and a total freak, we will definitely meet again. Rules are met to be broken.

This is the first time I have been around a girl from Colombia, that I did not want to kill myself with there crappy attitudes. Another thing, I have never had s Mexican girl tell me how hot they are. Colombian girls are always telling me how hot they are, major turn off for me.I always found Americans traveling abroad to be nicer. It is like the opposite for Colombian women in Mexico. They are less nice.

I think part of that is the Mexican men are so damned crazy about them. It is hilarious to see them tripping over themselves with my gal. When we go to a restaurant, the Mexican waiters could give a fuck about me. But with her, the waiters are willing to kill themselves if she is not happy.

One Mexican cab driver picked out that my gal was Colombian. She asked him why, and he said her accent. That cracked me up. When I was in Peru, I could pick out the Venezuelan MEN versus Peruvian ones based on attractiveness. While I see women in Texas and California over 5 foot 9 all the time like my gal, I have never seen a Mexican woman that tall. You do not even see it that much in Colombia.

I have seen that attractiveness thing before with Medellin women. It is funny that my last two girlfriends weighed 120 pounds, but one was five foot and the other is five ten. The shorter one was from Medellin, and she was like a 7 beauty wise, but she was great in bed and had a wonderful personality. Thing is her beauty was not what drove me to her, and she was constantly showing me her tits and ass like I was supposed to be fawning all over them. I was tempted to say, "Honey, I am not with you for your looks." even though she was cute.

There was a woman I dated from Bogota, and she would send me videos of her masturbating. She was better looking, maybe an 8. One video would have been nice, but it was multiple videos that lasted like ten minutes total. It was too much and a turn off. I was like, "Honey, I can watch hotter porn than this", but the idea that I am supposed to melt at her looks bugged me. She was adamant that I not share these videos like they somehow were worth gold. It was not as bad as the Medellin girl but it was not good either.

Thing is that I am seeing how different Colombians are based on where they live in the country. Medellin is everything you have said it is and outside of the weather and pollution, I like Bogota better than Medellin in almost every way. Thing is the women I met from the coast, the Costenas, are my favorites. They are the nicest, and IMO the best looking, and most sexual and do not seem to be as cocky. Even though they are in a distinct minority of women I have been with, the top three or four fucks I have had in Colombia have been with the Costenas.

And to me, when I went to Cali, it was like virgin territory. The potential for SA there seemed to be huge. I met a stunning black law student and a white girl with a perfect body (she was a PE teacher) but a bit of a butter face who was on her period. I was literally the first guy she ever gave head to, and I doubt either of these women would have that Medellin attitude you speak of.

TheManager
09-23-21, 23:29
For start I want to thank everyone contributing to this thread. I have myself been active on SA on and off for nearly a 10 year period and have gathered many experiences of being a SD in North America, Europe and South East Asia. Still it's always valuable to gain others perspectives.

Through my work I have a lot of business related travel and thus the opportunity to sample many places though often constrained by time. Something that typically doesn't jive well with my love for the girls-next-door that I find are immeasurably more likely to be found as sugarbabies than other kinds of sex workers.

So, I'll just throw out a few points on my process.

1. You have to be willing to spend. I'm wealthy. I'm not saying that with the intent to flex, but rather than to communicate that if you are going for sugarbabies to get your nut off then you need a deep wallet. An SB will typically cost you 2-3 x as much as an escort for the same time. That's excluding the dinners, cocktails and gifts that are typically needed to keep things alive.

2. You have to manage the relationship. IE, whereas an escort might be challenging to get on the hook you won't need any real social exchanges with her once you've agreed to a time, place and price.

3. You have to be able to walk away. Sugar is fickle by nature. While you can find genuine gems among potential SB's that are barely touched and extremely attractive you have very little idea going in what her goal in the sugar bowl is. Many have romanticized ideas about the what arrangements mean. Some think they just need to hold your hand to earn $$, others want to more or less date for several meetings before they commit to an arrangement (IE sex starts). All this requires screening and can be quite time consuming, which adds to costs if in your own work role is billing by the hour or simply have an occupation the requires many hours.

Now any monger reading this might be wondering "why go through all this trouble when I can just get some ass cheap and quick from a regular sex worker"? This is a completely legitimate protest. What you get with SBs though is something different. My focus is on top tier girls that I gladly pay the premium for. These are typically girls that have some profession and are not making a living by escorting / stripping / massaging etc. My roster history includes ballet dancers, ice dancers, models, business owners, photographers etc etc. They typically have in common that they don't think of themselves as sex workers but just need a little help with bills or projects. Some just wants to travel and get a new Gucci bag. In short, this is a game. For some people that translates as a waste of time and energy and I fully respect anyone that won't be part of that but rather get to the fucking / sucking / squeezing without further ado. But I love the game and I play it well.

Steve 9696
09-28-21, 01:17
So even tho the excitement of a first date is great, there are some great benefits from the comfort of a reg. Sue and I hadn't seen each other in about a month. It was great to see her again. She's just so genuine and goofy and so 22. Double edge sword is that she def has caught feelings for me.

We talk about NSA but there is no question she's got real feelings that I need to manage carefully. Got to say it's fun because being adored doesn't suck. Round one was spectacular. She basically worships my dick with her mouth and goes to another world when we fuck. And midway thru round two she says "I wish you didn't have to use the condom" and I say up to you babe. Well about ten seconds later we fucking bareback and damn that was fine.

So it was a great date all around. I do care for and about her so I've got to manage her infatuation but it's a nice problem to have. All good!

FRobertson
09-28-21, 05:35
So even tho the excitement of a first date is great, there are some great benefits from the comfort of a reg. Sue and I hadn't seen each other in about a month. It was great to see her again. She's just so genuine and goofy and so 22. Double edge sword is that she def has caught feelings for me.

We talk about NSA but there is no question she's got real feelings that I need to manage carefully. Got to say it's fun because being adored doesn't suck. Round one was spectacular. She basically worships my dick with her mouth and goes to another world when we fuck. And midway thru round two she says "I wish you didn't have to use the condom" and I say up to you babe. Well about ten seconds later we fucking bareback and damn that was fine.

So it was a great date all around. I do care for and about her so I've got to manage her infatuation but it's a nice problem to have. All good!Someone is ready to have little Steves running around!

Steve 9696
09-28-21, 17:09
Someone is ready to have little Steves running around!Yeah def not. But touchι that I am hypocritical on this topic. A year ago I would have said no way not taking the chance. But here I am a year later having fucked three different girls bareback. To be fair I never CIP, only shoot a small amount about an inch these days. LOL. I did some reading on pull out effectiveness and it's in the 90's when done right. I am pretty sure at my age I am going to do this way better than the general population of horny 20 somethings so prob on the high end of that. Actually my biggest issue is pulling out too soon and losing the shot and having to work up to it again! Hahaha. Didn't have that problem a few years back.

Anyhow it's a good reminder that I need to be careful snd keep my wits about me. And first time barebacking two different girls same month (not sure that's an awesome idea) so I will prob go back to condoms with Sue. She's too in love with me already. 😋.

BrizLad
09-28-21, 22:20
In my local paper today:

A FORMER elite Brisbane school student from a "loving family" who spat in the face of a cop and stole $1000 from a man she met on a sugar daddy site has received a sentence of imprisonment.

Bridgette Emily Fenton, 19, was immediately paroled after pleading guilty to 14 charges including assaults occasioning bodily harm, stealing, serious assault police, affray, enter dwelling and wilful damage.

The former Loreto College student's offending was driven by alcohol, the Brisbane Magistrates Court heard. The most serious offence occurred in June last year when Fenton met with a man in his Carrara unit after they communicated on the dating app "seeking arrangements", the court heard. After consuming wine the pair agreed on $1000 for intimacy but when the man left the room Fenton fled with the cash before anything occurred, the court heard. Fenton received 12 months imprisonment with a parole release date of Tuesday, taking into account 119 days already served. She was ordered to do 40 hours community service.

Good on the guy for following through and bringing her to justice.

AmorPorFavor
09-29-21, 02:09
For start I want to thank everyone contributing to this thread. I have myself been active on SA on and off for nearly a 10 year period and have gathered many experiences of being a SD in North America, Europe and South East Asia. Still it's always valuable to gain others perspectives.

Through my work I have a lot of business related travel and thus the opportunity to sample many places though often constrained by time. Something that typically doesn't jive well with my love for the girls-next-door that I find are immeasurably more likely to be found as sugarbabies than other kinds of sex workers.

So, I'll just throw out a few points on my process.

1. You have to be willing to spend. I'm wealthy. I'm not saying that with the intent to flex, but rather than to communicate that if you are going for sugarbabies to get your nut off then you need a deep wallet. An SB will typically cost you 2-3 x as much as an escort for the same time. That's excluding the dinners, cocktails and gifts that are typically needed to keep things alive.

2. You have to manage the relationship. IE, whereas an escort might be challenging to get on the hook you won't need any real social exchanges with her once you've agreed to a time, place and price.

3. You have to be able to walk away. Sugar is fickle by nature. While you can find genuine gems among potential SB's that are barely touched and extremely attractive you have very little idea going in what her goal in the sugar bowl is. Many have romanticized ideas about the what arrangements mean. Some think they just need to hold your hand to earn $$, others want to more or less date for several meetings before they commit to an arrangement (IE sex starts). All this requires screening and can be quite time consuming, which adds to costs if in your own work role is billing by the hour or simply have an occupation the requires many hours.

Now any monger reading this might be wondering "why go through all this trouble when I can just get some ass cheap and quick from a regular sex worker"? This is a completely legitimate protest. What you get with SBs though is something different. My focus is on top tier girls that I gladly pay the premium for. These are typically girls that have some profession and are not making a living by escorting / stripping / massaging etc. My roster history includes ballet dancers, ice dancers, models, business owners, photographers etc etc. They typically have in common that they don't think of themselves as sex workers but just need a little help with bills or projects. Some just wants to travel and get a new Gucci bag. In short, this is a game. For some people that translates as a waste of time and energy and I fully respect anyone that won't be part of that but rather get to the fucking / sucking / squeezing without further ado. But I love the game and I play it well.Thanks for your post. Finally some good useful info on this thread for newbies instead of just a bunch of bragging.

FRobertson
09-29-21, 02:59
Yeah def not. But touch that I am hypocritical on this topic. A year ago I would have said no way not taking the chance. But here I am a year later having fucked three different girls bareback. To be fair I never CIP, only shoot a small amount about an inch these days. LOL. I did some reading on pull out effectiveness and it's in the 90's when done right. I am pretty sure at my age I am going to do this way better than the general population of horny 20 somethings so prob on the high end of that. Actually my biggest issue is pulling out too soon and losing the shot and having to work up to it again! Hahaha. Didn't have that problem a few years back.

Anyhow it's a good reminder that I need to be careful snd keep my wits about me. And first time barebacking two different girls same month (not sure that's an awesome idea) so I will prob go back to condoms with Sue. She's too in love with me already. 😋.I just remembered, back when I was a little less fat, a little less old, and a little less shy. Just enough to get a genuine girlfriend. (yes, that was years ago, so long I even forgot about it) I used vaginal contraception (spermicide gel, dissolving film) - something like this: https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/vcf-dissolving-vaginal-contraceptive-films/ID=prod3417675-product. Many many unprotected injections and not a single problem, with different girls, too.

Certainly do your licking first, you don't want to taste the chemical, but otherwise it doesn't really interfere with the sensation as long as you get a quality product.

It pains me to imagine how badly could one of those girls mess up your life if she was to get pregnant and go bonkers. Especially if she's US-based.

https://rollingout.com/2014/02/04/woman-uses-sperm-oral-sex-get-pregnant-force-man-pay-child-support/
"In the ultimate case of relationship treachery, a woman collected the sperm she gathered from oral sex on her lover and used it to impregnate herself, then had the courts force the man to pay child support." $800 per month.

FRobertson
09-29-21, 03:01
In my local paper today:

A FORMER elite Brisbane school student from a "loving family" who spat in the face of a cop and stole $1000 from a man she met on a sugar daddy site has received a sentence of imprisonment.

Bridgette Emily Fenton, 19, was immediately paroled after pleading guilty to 14 charges including assaults occasioning bodily harm, stealing, serious assault police, affray, enter dwelling and wilful damage.

The former Loreto College student's offending was driven by alcohol, the Brisbane Magistrates Court heard. The most serious offence occurred in June last year when Fenton met with a man in his Carrara unit after they communicated on the dating app "seeking arrangements", the court heard. After consuming wine the pair agreed on $1000 for intimacy but when the man left the room Fenton fled with the cash before anything occurred, the court heard. Fenton received 12 months imprisonment with a parole release date of Tuesday, taking into account 119 days already served. She was ordered to do 40 hours community service.

Good on the guy for following through and bringing her to justice.$1000 for intimacy. What's wrong with some people?

Steve 9696
09-29-21, 03:50
Thanks for your post. Finally some good useful info on this thread for newbies instead of just a bunch of bragging.Not sure who your bragging jab was aimed at but suppose it could have been me. I have had very great luck at SA and do like to post it here for two reasons:

1. I enjoy memorializing it and sharing it with other like minded folks. I truly enjoy reading the exploits of others and have been told many times people enjoy my FRs. I try to post the good and the bad. Mostly it's been good or great. Long time readers know I've had my heart broken and been taken to the cleaners for about $3000 in wasted spending. But I've shared and lived and learned.

2. I hope that people lurk here and will come to see what a paradise SA can be when done right. Especially in pussy prison USA. If you told me three years ago I'd be extolling the virtues of P4 P in the US I'd have said you were crazy. Now I am the number one fan.

That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.

I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.

Atxbadgers
09-29-21, 04:36
That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.
Hi,

I just started my membership in SA and currently in Medellin. I feel most of the conversations are going no where when I say lets meet for a coffee and then decide as I am not sure if I would like her in person. So I would highly appreciate any tips on getting started as I am kind of getting tired of the PL and other places.

Thanks again.

Akibono
09-29-21, 06:23
Not sure who your bragging jab was aimed at but suppose it could have been me. I have had very great luck at SA and do like to post it here for two reasons:

1. I enjoy memorializing it and sharing it with other like minded folks. I truly enjoy reading the exploits of others and have been told many times people enjoy my FRs. I try to post the good and the bad. Mostly it's been good or great. Long time readers know I've had my heart broken and been taken to the cleaners for about $3000 in wasted spending. But I've shared and lived and learned.

2. I hope that people lurk here and will come to see what a paradise SA can be when done right. Especially in pussy prison USA. If you told me three years ago I'd be extolling the virtues of P4 P in the US I'd have said you were crazy. Now I am the number one fan.

That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.

I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.I have a message for you.

AmorPorFavor
09-29-21, 18:07
Not sure who your bragging jab was aimed at but suppose it could have been me. I have had very great luck at SA and do like to post it here for two reasons:

1. I enjoy memorializing it and sharing it with other like minded folks. I truly enjoy reading the exploits of others and have been told many times people enjoy my FRs. I try to post the good and the bad. Mostly it's been good or great. Long time readers know I've had my heart broken and been taken to the cleaners for about $3000 in wasted spending. But I've shared and lived and learned.

2. I hope that people lurk here and will come to see what a paradise SA can be when done right. Especially in pussy prison USA. If you told me three years ago I'd be extolling the virtues of P4 P in the US I'd have said you were crazy. Now I am the number one fan.

That said if you are looking for tips for newbies happy to answer any questions you might have. I posted a full guide but it's back a lot of pages now but can repost or answer specifics.

I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.Sorting through all the scammers, hookers and crazy babies is a pain in the ass. A reposting of your guide would be appreciated, thanks.

Steve 9696
09-29-21, 19:56
Hi,

I just started my membership in SA and currently in Medellin. I feel most of the conversations are going no where when I say lets meet for a coffee and then decide as I am not sure if I would like her in person. So I would highly appreciate any tips on getting started as I am kind of getting tired of the PL and other places.

Thanks again.Sorry I can't help w Medellin — maybe Elvis or DramaFree can. What I do know is that Seeking is not usually worth your time in a P4 P playground like Med. Facebook seems the route there. I am sure you can read more in that forum which is one of the most active on ISG.

Steve 9696
09-29-21, 19:57
I have a message for you.I await your missive.

Steve 9696
09-29-21, 20:05
Sorting through all the scammers, hookers and crazy babies is a pain in the ass. A reposting of your guide would be appreciated, thanks.I am posting the guide below. I wrote this a little earlier in my journey so I will note a couple updates here. First, prices have gone up. I find $500 pretty standard for a pretty girl in a big city snd even second tier cities seem more like $400. That said the number of sleepovers Ive had seems to also have increased so its really still a very good deal vs the alternative. Second I have found a couple of my great SBs like Mika and Kayla tend towards the semi-pro side in that they were comfortable discussing PPM even used that term. Ive also had an amazing string of black girls of late. I am more partial to Latinas but the black girls seem more ready to get down of late. Maybe its just a streak with me but its more target rich if thats in ur wheelhouse.

And one comment yes it is a horrific pain in the ass to sort thru all this. I am literally on SA at least an hour a day prospecting. It takes that kind of effort. But the payoff is where it's at. When you get an eight or nine giving you a BBBJ, swallowing, fucking you to death and sleeping over then you know it's soooo worth it.

————-
I came to realize through the Thifany experience (also possibly worth a repost - posted this epic about a year ago) that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.

So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably enough and one or the other will suggest to take the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she goes there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text.

Once over to text, you can discuss allowance / gifts (never "her price" or "how much you charge") though some guys leave that for in person dates. Because I am a fly-in guy and want to close the deal -- I. E. Go to the room and have sex -- the very first night, I prefer to get this elephant out of the room before the date if possible. But again, you can't go straight here. Start first with how you see the date going.

I usually say something about going out and having an epic time and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX! And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often they will be down with this description -- I mean we are all on SA for a reason. This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway. As of this writing, with A LOT of searching and false starts I'the say most big cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more) with SF and NYC more like $500. $300 is more like it for second tier cities, and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category).

Once you have the "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.

Steve 9696
09-29-21, 20:35
I've tried to be faithful about posting my stories as they occur. But some were posted back when Midwestern started this gem of a forum snd some not all. Happy to post / repost any that look interesting.

Thifany. From the nightclubs of Brazil to dancing in London. My first SB.

Valentina. The girl from Buenos Ares that broke my heart. But not before being totally awesome snd taking me to my first ever sex club.

Vegas. Three girls over five days, including the epic seduction of the "I can't have sex with a guy I just met" girl.

Miami. Early in the journey Colombian hottie.

NYC. Early on. Total SA virgin. Amazing to introduce her to the world.

London Duo. Two for one Colombianas bonus date! (Rising from the ashes after Valentina crushed my heart).

Alexa Miami. Flew Vegas girl (above) to Miami for an epic weekend.

Let me know if any of these strike your fancy and I will post / repost. Thanks!

TheManager
09-29-21, 21:17
I do have to disagree with The Manager when he asserts that an SB is 2-3 X more expensive than an escort. Maybe he had this backwards. Because there is no escort in the US in the 7+!looks category that is going to have dinner, fuck you and sleep over for $4-500 and that is par for the course on SA.As you noted that's an American phenomena. It's rather odd actually as I've found it to be the opposite just about everywhere else in the world.

TheManager
09-29-21, 21:28
I am literally on SA at least an hour a day prospecting. Adding to my previous post about prices for SBs vs escorts the above is also something you have to factor. Now I don't spend nearly as much time on SA as you (no judgement just a reflection) but if I did it would convert to thousands of USD in a week if I had been working / billing those hours to clients instead. So I still hold that the cost for SBs adds up.

Jack Miami
09-29-21, 21:52
"Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat."

That's hilarious. Sex for money is the entire point of the site, although some men are stupid enough to pay money for no sex.