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Mojo Bandit
03-16-20, 02:24
"Starting Monday, Colombia will temporarily ban the entry of foreign visitors traveling from Europe and Asia, President Ivan Duque said Friday.

In response to the coronavirus pandemic, the borders with Venezuela will be closed on Saturday already, the president said.

Visitors from the Americas will still be able to enter Colombia, but be subjected to compulsory health checks and tracked. ".

https://colombiareports.com/coronavirus-colombia-to-close-borders-for-foreign-visitors-from-europe-and-asia/

Fun Luvr
03-16-20, 03:22
Not even suggested is incorrect. It is already in process as we speak. I was referring to NYC and as of now its schools are closed. More is coming tomorrow or Tuesday. Nassau and Suffolk County as well. CT closes schools Tuesday. CA is heavily suggested by Governor, but will be mandatory soon. Its a moot point since most businesses are voluntarily closing anyway, it doesn't pay to stay open. Because you found discrepancies in one thing I mentioned quickly, you ignored ALL of the cited statements I've made over the past two days. Cool.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-shutdown.html

I agree with Uthred, everyone make their own decisions. Let's end the covid discussion please.You stated NY, not NYC. Closing schools is not a lockdown, nor is closing restaurants. The situation you describe in PR is a lockdown, limited, but still a lockdown.

Husker Dude
03-16-20, 03:24
From the President's translation on Sunday, he announced all non citizens of Colombia are banned starting Monday. Citizens arriving will be in self quarantine for 14 days and also foreign citizens. American airlines has cancelled all flights to Colombia starting Monday.

Mojo Bandit
03-16-20, 03:25
Colombia will block entry to travelers who are not residents or citizens and will close schools and universities from Monday in a bid to control the outbreak of coronavirus, President Ivan Duque said on Sunday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-colombia/colombia-will-block-entry-by-all-non-residents-from-monday-to-stop-coronavirus-idUSKBN21211B

AdventureSeekr
03-16-20, 03:48
You stated NY, not NYC. Closing schools is not a lockdown, nor is closing restaurants. The situation you describe in PR is a lockdown, limited, but still a lockdown.https://breaking911.com/breaking-new-york-city-shuts-down/

Blue Touch
03-16-20, 04:12
I wonder if this policy will reduce the amount of Venezuelan pros in Colombia gradually.


"Starting Monday, Colombia will temporarily ban the entry of foreign visitors traveling from Europe and Asia, President Ivan Duque said Friday.

In response to the coronavirus pandemic, the borders with Venezuela will be closed on Saturday already, the president said.

Visitors from the Americas will still be able to enter Colombia, but be subjected to compulsory health checks and tracked. ".

https://colombiareports.com/coronavirus-colombia-to-close-borders-for-foreign-visitors-from-europe-and-asia/

Ty Down
03-16-20, 04:28
This is insane.

One of two things are happening, 1) this thing is real, and a real weaponized virus has escaped the lab; or 2) this is one gigantic mind fuck to cover something else up. WTF.

Nounce
03-16-20, 04:47
I agree with you except for the part about testing. Positive or negative result the best practice is the same and there is no treatment or cure. Avoid crowds and practice good hygiene until it's over. No visits to the estadio for me anytime soon.I phrased it that way is because Korea does not have lockdown and have a lot of testings done. Their outcome is very different from Italy. Beside stopping the transmission of virus, the lockdown is an alternative to testing because it basically waits for a person to become sick enough to determine if it is the coronavirus or flu.

JjBee62
03-16-20, 08:59
This is insane.

One of two things are happening, 1) this thing is real, and a real weaponized virus has escaped the lab; or 2) this is one gigantic mind fuck to cover something else up. WTF.1. A weaponized virus with a mortality rate below 25% is a pretty crappy weapon. Especially a virus which is mostly ineffective against the age groups which make up the military. Frankly a weapon that wipes out the oldest of a population tends to make a country stronger.

2. That would be a huge mind fuck. You have to coordinate a big chunk of the Chinese population, plus almost everyone in South Korea and Italy, not to mention all the other doctors, techs, patients all around the world, bring in the CDC, WHO and equivalent agencies around the world and have zero leaks.

How about a #3?

3. It's a real disease, caused by a virus which is a hybrid of SARS and COVID-2. It's new. Nobody has natural antibodies, which makes it more severe. It has a high transmission rate. It causes pneumonia. It has a high hospitalization rate. It has a relatively high mortality rate. There's no cure and no vaccine.

No need for a conspiracy theory.

NormalAsianKid
03-16-20, 12:06
From what I've read, the 3. 5% death rate is actually like 20% for the 60+ population and like <0. 1% for 20-30 age group. Now that definitely doesn't mean, oh I'm 25, I don't care about getting it cause it's just going to be a cold for me. The problem is if you get it and then pass it onto your parents. Or if you don't visit your parents much, if you pass it onto one of your friends who then goes and sees their parents. A 1/5 chance of having one of your parents die from a cold you passed to them is no joke.

I've also read that at this point, we are way past containment and if we don't find a cure, the CV will spread to about 70% of people in the US and then go away due to herd immunization. The big reason we are doing a mass shutdown is essentially to push the infection down the road. That will 1) maybe allow us to find a cure, 2) definitely be more prepared for when the masses are infected and 3) not overload our hospitals / other resources right now and instead spread out the hospital usage across many months. I've also read that the strain of the CV going around is a much weaker form than the one that was killing people in China. This could explain the insane growth in incidence rates but not a correlated growth in the death rates. But another simple explanation could just be that governments are under reporting the deaths and keeping it under wraps. If you think there is hysteria going on now, could you imagine if the general population found out the death rate was actually 10% higher? Scary stuff right here.

NormalAsianKid
03-16-20, 12:21
If it was a weaponized virus than it would be more fatal more than 3. 5%, This particular virus probably actually came from a wild animal in China, most likely originally a bat, but then it passed to some other wild animal that they suspect was then brought to animal market. This has happened before. Some Chinese are obsessed with traditional Chinese medicine which involves a lot of wild a rare animals, so people go out and haul these animals into markets and then these animals spread viruses into the population. It has also happened in Egypt with bats and camels, bats spread the virus to camels and then the camels spread it to peopleI heard that the CV came from ducks. But humans are immune to bird viruses so it's actually transferred from duck poop to pigs which is then transferred to us. And the problem with China is they have one of the largest domestication of pigs which is why a ton of viruses tend to come from China.

But depending on what terrorists are trying to do, it is actually much more effective to have a weaponized virus with a low death rate. The problem with a deadly virus is that it'll kill a few people and then stop spreading because deadly viruses tend to put people into their death beds and it's really hard to infect other people when you're sick laying in bed. And then when you die, that virus dies with you. On the other hand, a weaker virus like the flu or CV, where it just gives most people a common cold will spread like wildfire. Nobody is going to self quarantine themselves because they have the sniffles or in the case of CV (you're contagious for a week before you even show symptoms). Which is where our problem lies, how can you stop the spread of a virus when you don't even know you have it till you've already passed it on to other people. Now I'm not saying the CV is a weaponized virus cause that opens a whole new can of worms but if the government wanted to do some population control, this is a pretty well made virus for that. It targets the older / sickly population who contribute less to the economy while using up the majority of medical resources and it doesn't seem to have a big effect on healthy younger people and doesn't affect kids at all.

I want to make it very clear that I'm not an expert on CV and this is all just stuff I've read / listened to. I also want to make it clear that I'm not saying this is a government conspiracy and that I'm definitely anti-CV. So please don't attack me, I'm just passing along information.

AdventureSeekr
03-16-20, 13:18
Posted in Medellin Expat group "Jet Blue just cancelled my flight to Ft Lauderdale from Medellin on Friday" Others have confirmed it is true.

Steve Ohh
03-16-20, 14:28
Colombia is closed.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

SJobs
03-16-20, 19:17
Anyone have an educated guess on how long will this travel ban last?

Mojo Bandit
03-16-20, 20:05
I heard that the CV came from ducks. But humans are immune to bird viruses so it's actually transferred from duck poop to pigs which is then transferred to us. And the problem with China is they have one of the largest domestication of pigs which is why a ton of viruses tend to come from China.

But depending on what terrorists are trying to do, it is actually much more effective to have a weaponized virus with a low death rate.Yes but then again terrorist like to make a big noise and take credit for what they do, that's sort of the ideal of Terrorism is the group showing the world their capabilities for their "cause". Never has there been a sneaky terrorist. Outside of James Bond / Mission Impossible movies. There would be no point. Even though I think we can all agree that terrorists are just basically serial killers. The terrorist does not think so, the terrorists thinks they are a freedom fighter. So they take credit for their actions.

I had not read about the duck theory but from what the CDC says they wouldn't rule it out.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html

AdventureSeekr
03-16-20, 20:05
Anyone have an educated guess on how long will this travel ban last?I don't think even the airlines or countries themselves know this. If cases are still rising, we can expect bans to be extended. It's a fluid situation. We don't have these kinds of answers. More cities, states and countries are implementing increasing measures almost by the hour right now, so we are still moving in the direction of more limited movement between people. We are not close to a tipping point where it will move back the other way. It's going to be months at minimum.

SJobs
03-16-20, 20:24
I don't think even the airlines or countries themselves know this. If cases are still rising, we can expect bans to be extended. It's a fluid situation. We don't have these kinds of answers. More cities, states and countries are implementing increasing measures almost by the hour right now, so we are still moving in the direction of more limited movement between people. We are not close to a tipping point where it will move back the other way. It's going to be months at minimum.This really sucks. Man, you are very lucky that you got to enjoy Medellin right before the door is shut. I guess I will just read your trip reports and live through it vicariously.

JjBee62
03-16-20, 20:39
Anyone have an educated guess on how long will this travel ban last?I won't call it an educated guess, but I'm guessing a bare minimum of 6 weeks and less than 20 weeks. It looks like, once the spread reaches critical mass, it takes about 4 weeks to run its course. At a guess, we've got 3-6 weeks before it tapers off in the US.

Will it reach a tipping point in Colombia? Remains to be seen.

AdventureSeekr
03-16-20, 21:31
This really sucks. Man, you are very lucky that you got to enjoy Medellin right before the door is shut. I guess I will just read your trip reports and live through it vicariously.This is exactly why I decided to still make the trip because I had a feeling I would be leaving just as it would be starting to really take off in the West. That timing proved to be almost exact to the day.

PR went on lockdown 1. 5 days after I landed. My petsitter cancelled on all clients immediately, no one is allowed to leave the house except for food, bank, hospital. If I didn't come back the day I did, things could have taken a real turn for the worse, ie: not being able to get a flight, standing in customs lines for 10 hours on arrival, my animals and plants being dead, not securing last minute supplies.

I got lucky in more ways than one.

MexiMonger
03-16-20, 21:39
I fully agree on #3 there is no need for a conspiracy theory.

Who on their right mind would want what's happening in the world, even 'iluminati' would not dare to do so.


1. A weaponized virus with a mortality rate below 25% is a pretty crappy weapon. Especially a virus which is mostly ineffective against the age groups which make up the military. Frankly a weapon that wipes out the oldest of a population tends to make a country stronger.

2. That would be a huge mind fuck. You have to coordinate a big chunk of the Chinese population, plus almost everyone in South Korea and Italy, not to mention all the other doctors, techs, patients all around the world, bring in the CDC, WHO and equivalent agencies around the world and have zero leaks.

How about a #3?

3. It's a real disease, caused by a virus which is a hybrid of SARS and COVID-2. It's new. Nobody has natural antibodies, which makes it more severe. It has a high transmission rate. It causes pneumonia. It has a high hospitalization rate. It has a relatively high mortality rate. There's no cure and no vaccine.

No need for a conspiracy theory.

Fun Luvr
03-16-20, 22:33
The Health Minister of Colombia announced today that the travel ban will be in effect until June 1.

AdventureSeekr
03-16-20, 23:03
The Health Minister of Colombia announced today that the travel ban will be in effect until June 1.Damn that sucks, I was hoping to come back mid April, which I knew wasnt happening and figured maybe by mid May, but now that will be mid June, at the earliest, if we are all lucky. Shit, I'm going to need to find a chica with a US visa who can come here LOL.

SJobs
03-16-20, 23:12
The Health Minister of Colombia announced today that the travel ban will be in effect until June 1.My god, this is terrible. Is there any chance they will let people who tested negative to go in?

Coupe66
03-17-20, 04:50
I've been doing a bit of research and the travel ban announced by Duque this evening is for all land, maritime and river crossings both in and out of Colombia, until the end of May. It does not concern air travel, which was not mentioned. So, in principal, you can still leave Colombia via Bogota airport, according to the report.

https://www.vanguardia.com/colombia/colombia-cierra-todas-sus-fronteras-terrestres-y-maritimas-NX2145816

Fun Luvr
03-17-20, 05:35
I've been doing a bit of research and the travel ban announced by Duque this evening is for all land, maritime and river crossings both in and out of Colombia, until the end of May. It does not concern air travel, which was not mentioned. So, in principal, you can still leave Colombia via Bogota airport, according to the report.Anyone can leave Colombia through many airports. My neighbors left Medellin this afternoon, through the airport in Rio Negro.

Coupe66
03-17-20, 06:20
Anyone can leave Colombia through many airports. My neighbors left Medellin this afternoon, through the airport in Rio Negro.Great, let's hope this stays that way! I wouldn't see how blocking people leaving could help Colombia in the fight against the Corona virus!? To what countries can you fly to from Rio Negro airport, isn't it just for domestic flights?

JjBee62
03-17-20, 09:35
Great, let's hope this stays that way! I wouldn't see how blocking people leaving could help Colombia in the fight against the Corona virus!? To what countries can you fly to from Rio Negro airport, isn't it just for domestic flights?Rionegro is the international airport. The airport in Medellin is just for domestic flights.

Fun Luvr
03-17-20, 14:41
Great, let's hope this stays that way! I wouldn't see how blocking people leaving could help Colombia in the fight against the Corona virus!? To what countries can you fly to from Rio Negro airport, isn't it just for domestic flights?The airport in Rio Negro (Jose Maria Cordova) is the international airport that serves the Medellin area. Olaya Herrera is the small airport in Medellin.

Mojo Bandit
03-17-20, 22:49
As much as I hate that I cannot get into Colombia right now, I have to say they did the right thing. The last time I looked at Colombia (probably a few days ago) they had a total of 2 COVID-19 cases. Now they have 65. Damn that is a growth curve. I have to eat crow because I said in an earlier post that I did not think it would hit Colombia as fast as it did the US but going from 2-60 is fast. There testing capacity probably has not caught up to demand either. And some of these idiots who were carrying it into the country who do not have symptoms are probably running around La 70 and Parque Lleras as we speak not practicing social distancing. Staying 3 feet from everyone.

Fun Luvr
03-18-20, 02:07
Bars and clubs are closed here. Manizales implemented a 7 pm curfew so I wouldn't be surprised if they try that here too. They are encouraging social distancing like everywhere else. During the day, is the best time for casa runs or to set things up for the night at your place. Closing the border to tourists was a good step as far as the virus. Might last until June. Who knows.The Health Ministry has already announced that the borders will be closed until June 1. Hopefully, the curve will be turned by then and the ban will not be extended.

LivingFossil
03-18-20, 03:46
I've been doing a bit of research and the travel ban announced by Duque this evening is for all land, maritime and river crossings both in and out of Colombia, until the end of May. It does not concern air travel, which was not mentioned. So, in principal, you can still leave Colombia via Bogota airport, according to the report.

https://www.vanguardia.com/colombia/colombia-cierra-todas-sus-fronteras-terrestres-y-maritimas-NX2145816Wait. So we can still fly in from the USA? Does Colombia have a shelter in place quarantine? Are people still partying in Parque LLeras?

Mojo Bandit
03-18-20, 10:42
Wait. So we can still fly in from the USA? Does Colombia have a shelter in place quarantine? Are people still partying in Parque LLeras?You can only fly into Columbia if you are a Columbia citizen or legal resident of Colombia.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/coronavirus-travel-bans/index.html

Fun Luvr
03-18-20, 15:43
I hope it stays that way. If Colombia doesn't implement social distancing soon they will have a massive outbreak like the one in Italy.I am curious why you think that. Have you been to Thailand or the Philippines? I picked those two countries because I have been to both. I am 99% sure there is not social distancing there. Thailand has 170 active cases and the Philippines has 181. I have no idea why there is a huge difference in the percentage of people with the virus in different countries, with some of the lowest in countries that are densely populated and lower living conditions.

In my opinion, there has been an over-reaction in many areas to the coronavirus. Since October, there have been an estimated 22,000 deaths in the US from the flu. There have been 116 deaths from the coronavirus since it was detected in the US. All restaurants haven't been ordered closed because of the flu. But, it is what it is and we all have to wait it out and hope for the best outcome.

YippieKayay
03-18-20, 16:02
I am curious why you think that. Have you been to Thailand or the Philippines? I picked those two countries because I have been to both. I am 99% sure there is not social distancing there. Thailand has 170 active cases and the Philippines has 181. I have no idea why there is a huge difference in the percentage of people with the virus in different countries, with some of the lowest in countries that are densely populated and lower living conditions.
Those countries don't test as much. That's why you're seeing low numbers right now. The data isn't being collected. They are going to have an outbreak worse than other countries and when people start dropping the flies you'll see it in the news.

This isn't just one strain of the virus. We're going to see three or four waves over the next two years. A vaccine may help lower the spread but its highly infectious (R2. 2 which means everyone spreads it to two other people at least). Things are not going to be normal this year. Maybe sometime next year if enough herd immunity has built up. In the meantime western industrialized countries are trying to avoid a situation like the one in Italy, hence social distancing, to slow the spread.

I'm not wishing ill on any of these countries. I just wouldn't use their data to get the measure of things.



In my opinion, there has been an over-reaction in many areas to the coronavirus. Since October, there have been an estimated 22,000 deaths in the US from the flu. There have been 116 deaths from the coronavirus since it was detected in the US. All restaurants haven't been ordered closed because of the flu. But, it is what it is and we all have to wait it out and hope for the best outcome.

Please humble yourself a little and consider that your numbers are wrong wrong wrong. COVID-19 (and later COVID-20) will claim more lives unless we all start taking measures to protect ourselves and our neighbours.

Fun Luvr
03-18-20, 16:13
Please humble yourself a little and consider that your numbers are wrong wrong wrong. COVID-19 (and later COVID-20) will claim more lives unless we all start taking measures to protect ourselves and our neighbours.Please show me where my numbers are wrong. I am glad I don't live in your world. Why not just shoot yourself before all the gloom and doom happens?

YippieKayay
03-18-20, 16:18
Please show me where my numbers are wrong. I am glad I don't live in your world. Why not just shoot yourself before all the gloom and doom happens?https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

As of right now the total number of deaths stand little under 8,000. It has just started to spread outside of China. I hope the death toll remains low, but this isn't promising. If left unchecked it would be MUCH higher.

EDIT: also look at the confirmed cases in the last 15 days. It accounts for HALF of all cases confirmed. The pandemic doubled in two weeks... really not a good sign.

Ty Down
03-18-20, 17:05
I am curious why you think that. Have you been to Thailand or the Philippines? I picked those two countries because I have been to both. I am 99% sure there is not social distancing there. Thailand has 170 active cases and the Philippines has 181. I have no idea why there is a huge difference in the percentage of people with the virus in different countries, with some of the lowest in countries that are densely populated and lower living conditions.I've never been to Thailand or the Philippines, but I have been to West Africa several times. Back in the day I was involved in a few University research trips to West Africa. Of course a regular discussion among us was the living conditions, mortality rate, disease, and immunity came up from time to time. I will never forget a microbiologist Professor stating, "In West Africa, if a child survives past the age of 5, they are basically immune to everything" he went on to explain that by that age, they have been exposed to all sorts of nasty shit, and lived. All this with no vaccinations.

I suspect that the living conditions in Thailand, Philippines, India, China, etc. Are less than ideal, but there is something to be said about being "to clean" and your immune system becoming very weak, your immune system needs to be "exercised" so to speak. If you don't use it, you lose it, is one line of thought.

JjBee62
03-18-20, 20:19
Wait. So we can still fly in from the USA? Does Colombia have a shelter in place quarantine? Are people still partying in Parque LLeras?Assuming the airline from the US is still running flights, assuming they decide to let you waste your money and get on the plane, yes. You can fly in to Colombia.

Then, you will sit in the airport, probably in a special waiting area set aside for people not allowed in, including potentially infected people, waiting for your flight back to the US.

Just not sure why anyone would pay to do that.

JjBee62
03-18-20, 20:31
Please show me where my numbers are wrong. I am glad I don't live in your world. Why not just shoot yourself before all the gloom and doom happens?The estimated flu deaths, according to the CDC, are 10,000 this flu season, but let's use 22,000. That's out of 20,000,000 cases. 1 out of every 1,000 die from the flu. 1 out of every 100 require medical treatment from the flu.

Globally there have been about 200,000 coronavirus cases (known). There have been nearly 8,000 deaths.

Here's the really fun part that you should love. It's called "extrapolation."

If, instead of 200,000 cases, we reach 20 million cases, how many coronavirus deaths can we expect? (Jeopardy theme plays.).

"What is 800,000?

"That is correct. How much did you wager".

Fun Luvr
03-18-20, 20:37
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

As of right now the total number of deaths stand little under 8,000. ... I clearly stated stats from the US. I am still waiting for you to show me where my numbers are "wrong, wrong wrong".

Fun Luvr
03-18-20, 20:47
... I will never forget a microbiologist Professor stating, "In West Africa, if a child survives past the age of 5, they are basically immune to everything" he went on to explain that by that age, they have been exposed to all sorts of nasty shit, and lived. All this with no vaccinations.

I suspect that the living conditions in Thailand, Philippines, India, China, etc. Are less than ideal, but there is something to be said about being "to clean" and your immune system becoming very weak, your immune system needs to be "exercised" so to speak. If you don't use it, you lose it, is one line of thought.I think you are probably correct. I know suicides have an impact, but there are other reasons for the life expectancy starting to decrease in the US. Eating some dirt growing up was not all bad.

YippieKayay
03-18-20, 21:44
I clearly stated stats from the US. I am still waiting for you to show me where my numbers are "wrong, wrong wrong".I'll try this one last time. You claim COVID-19 will kill less than the seasonal flu. I showed you numbers and explained to you that its only beginning to spread. It has ravaged China and left thousands dead. Its now stalking across the globe. Many more will die (than the flu) if we don't hunker down.

The Spanish flu wasn't just 1918, it was also spreading in 1919 and 1920. It killed anywhere from 50 million to 100 million people.

I'm not going to argue the point anymore. If your head is so far up your ass you think everyone is overreacting then I'd suggest buying a tin foil hat and joining a flat earth society.

EDIT:

In this article an expert tells you why you have your head up your ass: https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/covid-19-has-the-potential-to-become-as-severe-as-the-spanish-flu/

JjBee62
03-19-20, 01:07
I clearly stated stats from the US. I am still waiting for you to show me where my numbers are "wrong, wrong wrong".Fun Luvr on ISG says "world overreacting"
World leaders lift all restrictions
Dow surges
Medical experts baffled
Fun Luvr receives Presidential Medal of Freedom, Nobel Prize for Medicine and blowjob from Ivanka Trump

An infectious disease expert at John Hopkins, who asked to remain anonymous, said "frankly we're all embarrassed. We've spent weeks looking at all the data and it turns out a guy, whose hobby is fucking prostitutes, had the answers all along."

Don't worry. Later tonight I'll give you an opportunity to bust my balls.

It doesn't matter whether the world is overreacting. That train has already left the station. None of this is going to stop on a dime. We're in this for probably a minimum of 2 months and all your comparisons to the flu won't change a thing.

Why waste time on "it's all blown out of proportion?" That won't put toilet paper on the roll. The best you can hope for is being able to tell everyone "I told you so" in a few months.

Time is better spent figuring out what you need to do to get through this. Just a few weeks ago I wrote about the weakness of the US supply chain. Yes. I'm a fucking prophet. Shortages are already an issue. Don't expect it to get better.

What are your vulnerabilities? What types of sanctions will have the greatest affect on you? How is your cash supply? How is your food supply? Do you know any Mormons you can move in with?

I sincerely hope you're 100% correct, but it still doesn't change the issues we are facing.

Fun Luvr
03-19-20, 01:53
I'll try this one last time. You claim COVID-19 will kill less than the seasonal flu. .../You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. I never projected anything in the future. I only stated what has already happened. No matter how you twist my words, you will not find anywhere that I said the coronavirus WILL kill less than the flu. I learned the difference between "has' and "will" in elementary school. Obviously you have never learned the difference.

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 02:06
. I will never forget a microbiologist Professor stating, "In West Africa, if a child survives past the age of 5, they are basically immune to everything" he went on to explain that by that age, they have been exposed to all sorts of nasty shit, and lived. All this with no vaccinations..Sounds like this microbiologists might have been prone to a little exaggeration "immune to everything"? First of all immunity is specific. It is not a muscle you exercise and it gets stronger. Immunity is very complex process that involves a range of defences within he body and it is often specific to the disease that one encounters which is why the seasonal flu kills less than. 01% because we have been passing that little ***** back and forth for hundreds of years and redeveloping our own immunity every time we encounter it - and yet it keeps morphing into something slightly different and coming back every year.

In immunology viruses are the devil because unlike say bacterial infection where the bacteria are a living organism inside our body. The virus is the devil and takes possession of the cells soul (figuratively speaking) by changing the RNA sequence and causing the cell to misbehave.

So while I believe that these people in West Africa maybe developing specific immunities to many things that exist in their environment. When something new comes along that immunity is not necessarily helpful. Viruses are the devil. So for example when this microbiologist chose to be use such hyperbole when he said they are immune to everything. I would have ask him why so many have died from AIDS related illness, brought on by infections of the HIV - a virus

Fun Luvr
03-19-20, 02:08
Fun Luvr on ISG says "world overreacting"
World leaders lift all restrictions
Dow surges
Medical experts baffled
Fun Luvr receives Presidential Medal of Freedom, Nobel Prize for Medicine and blowjob from Ivanka TrumpYou must be Adam Schiff in disguise, and have the same level of education as Yippiekayay. Please show me where I wrote that the world is overreacting. You can't, because I did not write that. Making untruthful statements in bold letters does not make them true.

Maybe you should read this from the CDC website, if you think you can understand it. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

YippieKayay
03-19-20, 02:19
You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. I never projected anything in the future. I only stated what has already happened. No matter how you twist my words, you will not find anywhere that I said the coronavirus WILL kill less than the flu. I learned the difference between "has' and "will" in elementary school. Obviously you have never learned the difference.Nope:



In my opinion, there has been an over-reaction in many areas to the coronavirus. Since October, there have been an estimated 22,000 deaths in the US from the flu. There have been 116 deaths from the coronavirus since it was detected in the US. All restaurants haven't been ordered closed because of the flu. But, it is what it is and we all have to wait it out and hope for the best outcome.What you don't understand is the death rate in Italy as of today is over 8%. They are at almost 500 a day now. This isn't the flu. Stop saying and I quote you again: "there has been an over-reaction" THERE HASN'T.

Fun Luvr
03-19-20, 02:31
What you don't understand is the death rate in Italy as of today is over 8%. They are at almost 500 a day now. This isn't the flu. Stop saying and I quote you again: "there has been an over-reaction" THERE HASN'T.If you are going to quote me, why don't you quote the complete statement: "In my opinion, there has been an over-reaction in many areas to the coronavirus. " My posts concerning this subject have all been about the US, except mentioning the disparity of cases in Thailand and the Philippines compared to some other countries.

Blue Touch
03-19-20, 02:52
Some basic stats.

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 03:26
In my opinion, there has been an over-reaction in many areas to the coronavirus. Since October, there have been an estimated 22,000 deaths in the US from the flu. There have been 116 deaths from the coronavirus since it was detected in the US. All restaurants haven't been ordered closed because of the flu. But, it is what it is and we all have to wait it out and hope for the best outcome.


Nope:

What you don't understand is the death rate in Italy as of today is over 8%. They are at almost 500 a day now. This isn't the flu. Stop saying and I quote you again: "there has been an over-reaction" THERE HASN'T.Maybe what Fun Luvr fails to understand is that it has yet to actually hit the USA yet, its like there is a flooding torrential rainstorm in Italy and houses are underwater, the storm is moving in our direction. There is no stopping this storm from reaching us. But so far it is only sprinkling rain and Fun Luvr sees the sprinkling and does not understand why we are stacking up sandbags and digging trenches and building dams etc -.

Surfer500
03-19-20, 04:14
If you are going to quote me, why don't you quote the complete statement: "In my opinion, there has been an over-reaction in many areas to the coronavirus. " My posts concerning this subject have all been about the US, except mentioning the disparity of cases in Thailand and the Philippines compared to some other countries.There's a theory that the virus does not survive well in warmer clients, hence the reduced infection rate in the Thailand and the Philippines. If this is true, hopefully Colombia will not be as badly affected.

Ty Down
03-19-20, 05:19
In immunology viruses are the devil because unlike say bacterial infection where the bacteria are a living organism inside our body. The virus is the devil and takes possession of the cells soul (figuratively speaking) by changing the RNA sequence and causing the cell to misbehave.
Coronavirus deaths of West Africans - 0.

Coronavirus deaths of tourist in West Africa - 1 dead Italian.

YippieKayay
03-19-20, 05:52
Coronavirus deaths of West Africans - 0.

Coronavirus deaths of tourist in West Africa - 1 dead Italian.You're reading bad data. Most of these countries are not admitting they have a problem.

Sadly the same thing happened in 1919. Philadelphia had 500,000 deaths, and people had to live with the dead for weeks because there was no place to bury or cremate them. The media kept telling people everything was fine. BTW, I'd love to be wrong but I reckon a lot of the naysayers are going to find out what the next three years are like the hard way.

LoveItHere69
03-19-20, 06:16
Ball Park figures. Nobody can prove 100%.

10,000 people dead from Coronavirus.

500,000 flu deaths 2019.

600,000 slip and fall deaths 2019.

1,250,000 car crash deaths (3000+ per day) 2019.

All those car deaths and most people I know speed. Funny to think about really. But nobody thinks twice about jumping in their vehicles. Vroom vroom start your engines!

Remember AIDS had headlines on everything for years 30 years ago. Half the population was going to die, or at least half of Africa. Neither happened. Many guys then and since then have had unprotected sex. USA wanting to save the world gave money to countries. The countries learned if they say they had little AIDS they received little money. So if the countries said they had a lot of AIDS they received a lot of money.

Remember ZIKA 3 years ago? Have not heard a peep in 2.5 years.

How about the new study every 10 years. Eggs are good for you. Eggs are bad for you. Been hearing that change every 10 years like clockwork for the last 40 years. Same about wine and coffee. Nobody I know quit eating eggs or drinking wine and coffee.

Cell phones will give you cancer because the radiation from it. They fail to inform you that you get a 1000 times that amount of radiation just walking down the street for a few hours to equate to a lifetime or more of that cell phone next to your head. Everyone has cell phones and is reading my little story on a cancer causing cell phone or computer device. You do not seem worried about this.

Did you know there was a study on carrots? There is a deadly toxin in carrot that can kill. They forgot to mention that you would have eat a truck load of carrots in a weeks time in order to build up the amount of toxin required to kill you. It is impossible to do it even if you tried. So why even mention such a stupid study?

Put things in a little perspective. You are welcome!

Ty Down
03-19-20, 06:24
You're reading bad data. Most of these countries are not admitting they have a problem.

Sadly the same thing happened in 1919. Philadelphia had 500,000 deaths, and people had to live with the dead for weeks because there was no place to bury or cremate them. The media kept telling people everything was fine. BTW, I'd love to be wrong but I reckon a lot of the naysayers are going to find out what the next three years are like the hard way.Bad data?

"1919. Philadelphia had 500,000 deaths, and people had to live with the dead for weeks because there was no place to bury or cremate them. ".

What is the source?

JjBee62
03-19-20, 08:19
Try sucking some helium so you can lighten the fuck up.


You must be Adam Schiff in disguise, and have the same level of education as Yippiekayay. Please show me where I wrote that the world is overreacting. You can't, because I did not write that. Making untruthful statements in bold letters does not make them true.I do so love a challenge. Yippiekayay probably has more education than me. I'm just a poor, dumb, uneducated truck driver.


In my opinion, there has been an over-reaction in many areas to the coronavirus. Since October, there have been an estimated 22,000 deaths in the US from the flu. There have been 116 deaths from the coronavirus since it was detected in the US. All restaurants haven't been ordered closed because of the flu. But, it is what it is and we all have to wait it out and hope for the best outcome.I put it in bold letters for you. For the record, the only part you quoted was sarcasm. I thought the "blowjob from Ivanka Trump" line would have clued you in to that.


Maybe you should read this from the CDC website, if you think you can understand it. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htmI'm pretty sure I've already read it. I'll verify later on. Maybe you should read the part of my post that you decided not to quote (if you think you can understand it). I'll paraphrase (golly gee that's a big word for some dumb redneck like me) it for you.

How bad the flu is, how bad coronavirus is. Neither one matters. Borders are closed, restaurants are closed, factories are closing, the entire world is shutting down. If not one more person dies from COVID-19 infection, it won't change that. Next week everything will still be shutdown. The week after everything will still be shutdown. There are millions of people who are going to be getting desperate real soon. That's what you should be thinking about.

You can argue about the flu all you want. Nothing changes. If you want, you can talk about tuberculosis. That seems to be the current favorite when I try to teach people who want to babble incoherently (holy cow! That word's longer than pa's trips to the outhouse) about the flu, simple math. Still doesn't change what is.

By the way, instead of jumping straight to the ad hominem attacks, why not dig into the actual content of the posts? We can sit around and call each other names all day if you want, but it will just make you look bad. I've got much more experience.

Now if why'all will excuse me, got to milk the hogs, slop the chickens and gather the eggs from the cows.

JjBee62
03-19-20, 08:44
If you make enough correct predictions some people will call you a prophet. If your predictions all miss some will call you a fool. I'm definitely not a prophet and I'm most likely a fool, but I'm willing to put it to the test.

Following are my predictions for April 1, 2020. In 2 weeks you can pull up this post and tell me how big a fool you think I am. I recommend patience. If you spend the next few days telling me how wrong I am, and I'm even close to being right, I'm going to rub your nose in it.

To make it easy to find this post again, just search for jjthefool or jjtheprophet and it should pop right up. Here goes.

Worldwide coronavirus cases - 1,000,000+.

Worldwide coronavirus deaths - 20,000+.

Dow Jones Industrial Average - <17,000.

USD to COP - 4,600 per dollar.

USD to CAD - $1. 60 CAD to USD.

Bitcoin - $4800 per Bitcoin.

For comparison, here are current numbers as of 3:36 am Eastern Time:

Cases - 218,000.

Deaths - 8,700.

DJIA - 19,898.92.

USD to COP - 4158.

USD to CAD - 1.46.

Bitcoin - $5444.67.

I included Canadian dollars because I'm in Canada 2 days a week and there's a possibility I'll get stuck there if the border is closed completely. I included Bitcoin because it's something I'm tracking trying to get a better understanding of how the world economy is reacting.

Watch and wait and start preparing your worst insults.

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 12:02
Coronavirus deaths of West Africans - 0.

Coronavirus deaths of tourist in West Africa - 1 dead Italian.The whole of West Africa has what like 50 confirmed and reported cases. That is not statistically significant enough to start making some blanket judgement about immunity. Alabama has about the same number of cases and has not had any deaths either.

SavePros321
03-19-20, 12:23
Coronavirus deaths of West Africans - 0.

Coronavirus deaths of tourist in West Africa - 1 dead Italian.Kevin Durant has tested positive for the Corona Virus. If I get where you are trying to go.

YippieKayay
03-19-20, 12:24
Bad data?

"1919. Philadelphia had 500,000 deaths, and people had to live with the dead for weeks because there was no place to bury or cremate them. ".

What is the source?I don't have a primary source and my number is wrong. Out of 500,000 cases in Philadelphia 12,000 died in six months.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/15/us/philadelphia-1918-spanish-flu-trnd/index.html

"In the US, about 675,000 people died of the 22 million who caught the flu. ". My number is closer to the one for the entire US. That's still very significant to have.

Yes, bad data from West Africa. I suspect a lot of countries are not testing enough so we don't know the number of actual cases. We're going to find out soon though. The virus takes up to two weeks to start showing symptoms. A new infection in a country can turn from mild to catastrophic in six weeks time. Look at Italy.

Goatscrot
03-19-20, 15:11
Nope:

What you don't understand is the death rate in Italy as of today is over 8%. They are at almost 500 a day now. This isn't the flu. Stop saying and I quote you again: "there has been an over-reaction" THERE HASN'T.Please. Have a read.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says?__twitter_impression=true

YippieKayay
03-19-20, 16:15
Please. Have a read.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says?__twitter_impression=trueRight. Everyone is wrong except you. It's not that serious.

Carry on.

Fun Luvr
03-19-20, 16:21
Maybe what Fun Luvr fails to understand is that it has yet to actually hit the USA yet, its like there is a flooding torrential rainstorm in Italy and houses are underwater, the storm is moving in our direction. There is no stopping this storm from reaching us. But so far it is only sprinkling rain and Fun Luvr sees the sprinkling and does not understand why we are stacking up sandbags and digging trenches and building dams etc -.Has it hit China yet? Their reported death toll is 15% of the estimated deaths in the US from the flu since October 2019. Neither you nor I know what the future holds. I don't think you and Yippiekayay have any scientific data to substantiate your dire predictions. Only the future will tell us if you are right or wrong. I prefer to be optimistic instead of an alarmist.

Before someone says the coronavirus is not the flu, I am not making a medical comparison. They are both medical conditions and are spread in almost the same manner. That is the reason I am making a numerical comparison.

Surfer500
03-19-20, 16:37
I don't know if this the right section to post this, interesting that this a new thread for sure, and the guys on the Medellin thread are going at it over how Gustos's sucks which is totally nuts, who could give a shit, great place for some, nothing for others.

Anyways I have been back three days now in Southern California since getting out of the Colombia last Sunday, and now I have heard that Colombia has effectively shut down all flights in and out of the Country so I guess I am very lucky to have gotten out, or maybe not.

I have spent the last three days stocking up on supplies and with the projected 18 month Pandemic prediction yesterday, and the surges in cases, I am worried. I may even be infected for all I know as my son being in his twenty's arrived last Saturday to stay in my home and may be a virus carrier with no symptoms.

I have yet to see a single roll of toilet paper in hitting 5 stores a day at multiple hours. I could not find any flour for baking until I went to the most expensive market in town. I finally got some pasta products after being the first one after waiting in line for an hour at a Trader Joe's.

Fresh products are very scarce, you have to either know the delivery schedules or just be in the right place at the right time to find stuff.

It amazes me what people are buying in the markets. Lots of people are just buying fresh stuff. The smart ones are buying dry and canned products for the long haul.

And literally nobody is wearing a mask, and when I do people stay clear of me thinking I'm sick. If I was in Asian City not wearing a mask, they would think I am sick for sure.

The news is worse and worse everyday, and with all the isolation orders and shut downs I wonder how long it's going to be when the people working in the markets and pharmacies are going to quit coming to work, let alone have money to pay the rent and utilities.

I went to Home Depot yesterday, interesting in that they had a two limit per item quota like all the stores in town on cleaning products like bleach containing products and I lucked out as none of the other supermarkets had them.

I also, after noticing a very scarce amount of fruits and vegetables in the Supermarkets, bought several live plants and seeds in the nursery. I have a sizable backyard so will be growing all kinds of stuff.

Maybe I sound crazy, and perhaps have a green thumb.

I am curious as to what others are experiencing in the USA and in Colombia in regards to the virus.

Nounce
03-19-20, 17:56
Has it hit China yet? Their reported death toll is 15% of the estimated deaths in the US from the flu since October 2019. Neither you nor I know what the future holds. I don't think you and Yippiekayay have any scientific data to substantiate your dire predictions. Only the future will tell us if you are right or wrong. I prefer to be optimistic instead of an alarmist.

Before someone says the coronavirus is not the flu, I am not making a medical comparison. They are both medical conditions and are spread in almost the same manner. That is the reason I am making a numerical comparison.Are you comparing total number of deaths or death rate? Most deaths in China are in one region.


I prefer to be optimistic instead of an alarmist.


I think not many people will disagree with you. I also think may will agree with this more: "Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised".

Ty Down
03-19-20, 18:32
Chloroquine 100% effective against coronavirus. Probably can buy it OTC in Colombia. Pandemic is over. I still have some from my Africa days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInV44ujWDM

AdventureSeekr
03-19-20, 18:34
"Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised".Couldn't have said it better. I'm done posting on this. I've spent hours on this forum posting studies, published medical journal articles, CDC and WHO data. Some people don't want to hear it. It is what it is. Each person can make up their own mind.

In line with the statement above, you have nothing to lose to be prepared and limit social interaction, the worst downside is mild inconvenience. The downside to ignoring the entire international medical community is you could die, or you could infect other people who could die. It baffles me that this is even a debate.

AdventureSeekr
03-19-20, 18:39
Chloroquine 100% effective against coronavirus. Probably can buy it OTC in Colombia. Pandemic is over. I still have some from my Africa days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInV44ujWDMWow, that's hilarious. I used to party HARD in college with Greg. We didn't stay in touch after college but that guy was a fucking party animal. Fucking wild to see him here on this video.

Ty Down
03-19-20, 18:48
FDA approved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1MyHPmSPdg

YippieKayay
03-19-20, 19:22
FDA approved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1MyHPmSPdgWHO has been testing this and three other drugs since Wednesday.

JjBee62
03-19-20, 19:43
Has it hit China yet? Their reported death toll is 15% of the estimated deaths in the US from the flu since October 2019. Neither you nor I know what the future holds. I don't think you and Yippiekayay have any scientific data to substantiate your dire predictions. Only the future will tell us if you are right or wrong. I prefer to be optimistic instead of an alarmist.

Before someone says the coronavirus is not the flu, I am not making a medical comparison. They are both medical conditions and are spread in almost the same manner. That is the reason I am making a numerical comparison.But you can't make a direct numerical comparison. That makes less sense than somebody bragging about paying $300 for a girl from Gusto, because in the US that girl would cost $400.

Here's a numerical comparison for you. We'll start with the flu. It kills, worldwide about 500,000 per year. Our second disease only kills, on average, 7 people per year. Using a numerical comparison it's much better to get the second disease.

There have only been 450 known cases of primary amoebic meningoencephalitis over the past 60 years, 443 have died from it, an average of 7. 38 per year.

The point is, the numerical comparison is useless. Assuming the transmission rates are similar, the important number is the mortality rate.

JjBee62
03-19-20, 19:56
I don't know if this the right section to post this, interesting that this a new thread for sure, and the guys on the Medellin thread are going at it over how Gustos's sucks which is totally nuts, who could give a shit, great place for some, nothing for others.

Anyways I have been back three days now in Southern California since getting out of the Colombia last Sunday, and now I have heard that Colombia has effectively shut down all flights in and out of the Country so I guess I am very lucky to have gotten out, or maybe not.

I have spent the last three days stocking up on supplies and with the projected 18 month Pandemic prediction yesterday, and the surges in cases, I am worried. I may even be infected for all I know as my son being in his twenty's arrived last Saturday to stay in my home and may be a virus carrier with no symptoms.

I have yet to see a single roll of toilet paper in hitting 5 stores a day at multiple hours. I could not find any flour for baking until I went to the most expensive market in town. I finally got some pasta products after being the first one after waiting in line for an hour at a Trader Joe's.I'm mostly immune from the insanity. I'm home 38 hours per week. There's not much food in the house, but the local restaurants are still open for carryout. At home there aren't many grocery options and they are experiencing shortages.

At work I have every shopping option. Visited Trader Joe's today and they were well stocked, busy, but no lines. The only thing I saw they were out of was their Lemon Ginger Echinacea fruit drink. However, their stock was low lady week, so they may just be waiting for the next delivery.

Also stopped by a Meijer store. It's a Midwest Walmart competitor. Didn't look very busy. I was just there to use the ATM, so no idea on how well stocked. If I really need something there's a Mexican supermarket that's not busy at all.

Traffic is lighter than usual, although it's not a huge dropoff. Lots of places are closed. Restaurants with drive-thrus are keeping busy.

Things are about the same in Ontario. A bit less traffic.

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 21:13
Chloroquine 100% effective against coronavirus. Probably can buy it OTC in Colombia. Pandemic is over. I still have some from my Africa days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInV44ujWDMPlease only post responsible reports. Not more hyperbole. The guy in the video is misrepresenting facts. He said it was a peer reviewed study when it has actually not been accepted for peer review yet. It is a study that only included 20 people actually receiving the treatment the another 16 being the control group. until more studies are done on this lets not call it Panacea. The guy in the video is saying that it is "curing"the disease when in fact it is just reducing the viral load. Not the same as "killing" the virus nor eliminating it, and the patients in the study were given other drugs to treat their symptoms.

I know people that do this for a living at big pharm (they work on anti virals) and I talked to them and they said that study looks promising but it is way too small to have clear answers. A little early to be saying " Pandemic is over".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/19/trump-calls-anti-malarial-drug-game-changer-coronavirus-fda-says-it-needs-study/

I like that this is an inexpensive drug. I also took this drug when I went to Africa.

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 21:29
The State Department on Thursday issued an extraordinary advisory urging Americans not to travel overseas, to return to the United States if they can, or to otherwise shelter in place.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/coronavirus-travel-advisory-level-four-137227

Ty Down
03-19-20, 21:30
Please only post responsible reports. Not more hyperbole. The guy in the video is misrepresenting facts. He said it was a peer reviewed study when it has actually not been accepted for peer review yet.

I like that this is an inexpensive drug. I also took this drug when I went to Africa.Dude, Chloroquine has been peer reviewed over and over as effective against the coronavirus. NEWS FLASH - "coronavirus" has been around for a long, LONG time, same virus that causes the common cold. Nothing new here.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 21:32
Duque suspends entry of travelers to the country for 30 days, including Colombians.

https://www.lafm.com.co/colombia/duque-suspende-ingreso-de-viajeros-al-pais-durante-30-dias-incluidos-colombianos?fbclid=IwAR0gbKh5aseLezQoDiHGd7Ro3oTroJ-SSaqApNLQ_XIdhB9jauuAZ8UEmi8

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 21:44
Dude, Chloroquine has been peer reviewed over and over as effective against the coronavirus. NEWS FLASH - "coronavirus" has been around for a long, LONG time, same virus that causes the common cold. Nothing new here.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/Jesus H man. I do not want to be in a pissing contest with you but there is more than one "coronavirus". The specific one we are dealing with is called COVID-19 - the article you are referencing here is about SARS-CoV. I said that the guy in the video said that study was peer reviewed and it was not. Not because it was a bad study but there just has not been time for it to be reviewed.

Surfer500
03-19-20, 21:47
Duque suspends entry of travelers to the country for 30 days, including Colombians.

https://www.lafm.com.co/colombia/duque-suspende-ingreso-de-viajeros-al-pais-durante-30-dias-incluidos-colombianos?fbclid=IwAR0gbKh5aseLezQoDiHGd7Ro3oTroJ-SSaqApNLQ_XIdhB9jauuAZ8UEmi8Totally smart move on his part, maybe I should of stayed instead of leaving. Besides the bitching about Gusto's on the Medellin thread, it sounds like a field day for those either stuck in Medellin or there by choice, hopefully this measure, and others taken by the Colombian Government will help it to avoid the holocausts that have, and / or going to occur in other Countries, including the USA in various parts.

JjBee62
03-19-20, 22:11
Dude, Chloroquine has been peer reviewed over and over as effective against the coronavirus. NEWS FLASH - "coronavirus" has been around for a long, LONG time, same virus that causes the common cold. Nothing new here.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/I'm curious. Do you know what a peer reviewed study is?

COVID-19 hasn't been around a long time. It was first identified in December. The other severe, human transmittable strains of coronavirus, MERS and SARS, have only been around since 2012 and 2002. The other, milder strains have been around longer, and identified as human pathogens for 60 years.

In 2009 a peer reviewed study showed that chloroquine was effective at reducing the viral load of coronavirus in mice. It used the strain of coronavirus which is responsible for 10-30% of common colds.

Chloroquine is currently being studied to determine effectiveness against the COVID-19 strain of coronavirus. Results are promising. There will first be further trials before it's approved.

This is not a cure. It's not a vaccine. It has the potential to reduce the amount of virus in the body, in order to allow a person to recover. In other words, it may be (probably) useful to keep people with severe cases from dying.

It doesn't mean the pandemic is over. I doesn't mean everything pops right back to normal. It means we should soon be able to keep more patients alive. Certainly that's good news.

What you've failed to consider is that it will not prevent the spread of disease. It won't reduce the number of hospitalizations for the disease. It just means less people who go to the hospital will leave in body bags.

Here's the article on the 2009 study:

https://aac.asm.org/content/53/8/3416

Ty Down
03-19-20, 22:22
Jesus H man. I do not want to be in a pissing contest with you but there is more than one "coronavirus". The specific one we are dealing with is called COVID-19 - the article you are referencing here is about SARS-CoV. I said that the guy in the video said that study was peer reviewed and it was not. Not because it was a bad study but there just has not been time for it to be reviewed.That's exactly why I posted that link, to point out that the coronavirus has been around for a long time, and the fact that Chloroquine is very effective against the coronavirus historically, and by all indications, is very effective against coronavirus in its current form. Okay, I'll give it to you, in this latest trials, there hasn't been enough time for peer reviews, I'm down with that. That's true. You got me. But to say I'm posing hyperbole and being irresponsible is just bullshit.

How many strains of coronavirus currently known? According to the CDC, there is 7 strains that human can contract. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html.

When was coronavirus detected? 1960's.

YippieKayay
03-19-20, 22:26
Jesus H man. I do not want to be in a pissing contest with you but there is more than one "coronavirus". The specific one we are dealing with is called COVID-19 - the article you are referencing here is about SARS-CoV. I said that the guy in the video said that study was peer reviewed and it was not. Not because it was a bad study but there just has not been time for it to be reviewed.SARS-CoV-2 is the virus. COVID-19 is the disease it causes.

Mojo Bandit
03-19-20, 23:13
SARS-CoV-2 is the virus. COVID-19 is the disease it causes.I stand corrected on that the current virus being called Sars-Cov-2 but the one that the paper he posted mentioned was SARS-Cov.


Chloroquine 100% effective against coronavirus. Probably can buy it OTC in Colombia. Pandemic is over. I still have some from my Africa days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInV44ujWDM


That's exactly why I posted that link, to point out that the coronavirus has been around for a long time, and the fact that Chloroquine is very effective against the coronavirus historically, and by all indications, is very effective against coronavirus in its current form. Okay, I'll give it to you, in this latest trials, there hasn't been enough time for peer reviews, I'm down with that. That's true. You got me. But to say I'm posing hyperbole and being irresponsible is just bullshit.

How many strains of coronavirus currently known? According to the CDC, there is 7 strains that human can contract. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html.

When was coronavirus detected? 1960's."Pandemic is over" were your words. That is hyperbole and if it gives anyone who reads it enough incentive to stop taking precautions than I would consider it irresponsible. 90% of what you post is useful as hell information. Seriously.

I'm not trying to be a dick, look at it this way, as the moderator of this thread I have a "delete post" option at the bottom of each post. Would only use that if someone was out of control attacking someone or broke forum rules etc.

But also I am quarantined for 14 days and I need intelligent people to argue with LOL. I have already learned a little today but would not have if I had not challenged you a little to go dig up more information. That last URL you posted from the CDC. Swear to god I had that page pulled up from a search and was about to post the link when you posted LOL.

AdventureSeekr
03-20-20, 01:17
"If you choose to travel internationally, your travel plans may be severely disrupted, and you may be forced to remain outside of the United States for an indefinite timeframe. ".

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/ea/travel-advisory-alert-global-level-4-health-advisory-issue.html

Fun Luvr
03-20-20, 02:21
Are you comparing total number of deaths or death rate? Most deaths in China are in one region.I am comparing total deaths because we don't really know the death rate. Unless everyone was tested, we would not know the number of cases. So the death rate we are seeing is pretty much useless. For the coronavirus, it is now at about 1.5% in the US, and earlier reports showed it at 3.4%.

I don't know the relevance of most deaths in China are in one region. A majority of the deaths in the US are in two states.

YippieKayay
03-20-20, 02:44
So the death rate we are seeing is pretty much useless.No its not useless. Its an actual count of people who died. Do you see how that is different than confirmed cases?

They had to get a the military to help bury the bodies in Italy. That's how serious this pandemic is.

Ty Down
03-20-20, 03:10
But also I am quarantined for 14 days and I need intelligent people to argue with LOL. I have already learned a little today but would not have if I had not challenged you a little to go dig up more information. That last URL you posted from the CDC. Swear to god I had that page pulled up from a search and was about to post the link when you posted LOL.Thanks for creating this thread, lots of good info here. If our paths ever cross, the beer is on me! Cheers.

Zeos1
03-20-20, 03:43
You guys in Medellin now reporting things as basically normal. Best of luck. You may be there for the duration. And all of us hope it doesn't get as bad there as in Europe. And Europe is not showing any signs of slowing down. Italy now has had more deaths than China, and it is growing in an exponential manner.

It probably is there now, and when that becomes evident all hell will break loose. I can't even imagine how the city would function without transit, metro, etc. And, like other places everything in casas etc. Will be shut down. It's not like the authorities don't know they are there. They are the customers after all.

And great medical care. Sure, for the first few patients that need respirators. Then. Good luck if you get serious. But that's true everywhere. USA included.

So as long as you don't have to touch anything, or get closer than a couple of yards. Have fun.

Surfer500
03-20-20, 04:33
You guys in Medellin now reporting things as basically normal. Best of luck. You may be there for the duration. And all of us hope it doesn't get as bad there as in Europe. And Europe is not showing any signs of slowing down. Italy now has had more deaths than China, and it is growing in an exponential manner.

It probably is there now, and when that becomes evident all hell will break loose. I can't even imagine how the city would function without transit, metro, etc. And, like other places everything in casas etc. Will be shut down. It's not like the authorities don't know they are there. They are the customers after all.

And great medical care. Sure, for the first few patients that need respirators. Then. Good luck if you get serious. But that's true everywhere. USA included.

So as long as you don't have to touch anything, or get closer than a couple of yards. Have fun.I left Colombia last Sunday for California in fear of what might happen in Colombia if it goes the way of Europe and Colombia's limited resources to deal with it.

And the Governor of California comes out on Thursday afternoon and say's that upwards of over 50% of the population could become infected in the next eight weeks or over 20,000,000 people and orders everyone to stay home except markets, pharmacies, and other businesses.

I hope Colombia is spared of what could be a holocaust in California.

Nounce
03-20-20, 04:39
I also, after noticing a very scarce amount of fruits and vegetables in the Supermarkets, bought several live plants and seeds in the nursery. I have a sizable backyard so will be growing all kinds of stuff.

Maybe I sound crazy, and perhaps have a green thumbWe think alike. I bought several large bags of potting soil.

Fun Luvr
03-20-20, 05:40
No its not useless. Its an actual count of people who died. Do you see how that is different than confirmed cases?

They had to get a the military to help bury the bodies in Italy. That's how serious this pandemic is.Seriously, is English your primary language? Because you are having a difficult time understanding some simple English. The death rate is not a count of anything, it is a percentage. Do you believe the confirmed count is an accurate count of everyone who has contracted the virus? If you can agree that there are people with the virus who have not been counted, then the death rate is not accurate. An inaccurate number used to determine a rate renders the rate inaccurate, which is useless.

Junior11
03-20-20, 15:50
Ah, it was going so great, but now there is quarantine in Medellin. Rappi still works and delivers anything, but chicas 😭.

https://medellinguru.com/medellin-quarantine/

Elvis 2008
03-20-20, 16:53
My gal made it to Mexico! Stunningly, she breezed through Mexican customs. She flew Copa from Medellin to Panama City and then to Guadalajara, Mexico. It was a marked change from how rough customs is in Mexico City where anyone from Venezuela and Colombia is roughly detained. It was even better than Cancun. The customs in Colombia harassed her about traveling, but Mexico was cool which shocked me. If you are thinking of brining in Colombian women to Mexico, I was told to go through Panama City, and the amount of money the women should have on them is $400 to $500. Of course, that they shouldn't be dressed like a **** and have a clear reason for coming. If the ticket prices stay this low, it would be a great middle ground for Americans and Colombians. In addition, Puerto Vallarta is a 4 hour drive or cheap flight from here for the beach lovers.

I am not seeing the hysteria here in Mexico with regards to the coronavirus here still. Only thing I would say is that the restaurants are not as full as they would seem to have been. From my point of view, the restaurants are often open air and nearly empty. Grocery stores still have water and toilet paper.

It is interesting to me how the alternative media has become much better IMO than the mainstream. I probably got more information from this podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw.

Than anywhere else.

The transcript is here: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/joe-rogan-michael-osterholm-podcast-transcript-infectious-disease-expert-talks-coronavirus.

For the longest time in the stock market, I have bet against the doom and gloom Malthusian models. The mathematical certainty that we are going to run out of food back when Malthus predicted it or just recently peak oil. The doom and gloom predictions are always more popular than their cornucopian adversaries, but I cannot recall the Malthusians ever being right about anything.

There is a common line in market lingo "Number don't lie, but people do. " My corollary to that learned the hard way is, "and people lie about numbers. " So you have the number of tests done and the positive ones. That is an objective number, a good number, however I am not sure how many false positives and negatives there are. When it comes to deaths and death rate percentage, those numbers, and it is really important to remember this, are opinions and death rates sadly are so often manipulated for political purposes.

And it is important to remember cause of death is a government constructed number. I don't like the fact that a noncompliant diabetic hypertensive may get the virus and die, and the virus be listed as the sole cause of death. To me, it is like you have to achieve a score of 100 to die and maybe the virus adds a number to it 10,20, 30 whatever. That number may be based on how hearty your immune system is and how well you take care of yourself. The point is that if you are 80 already in health, and the virus adds 20 you die. If you are only at 20, then you don't die from it. I am not saying that I can come up with a better system of counting, but just understand that all these predictions are based on opinions of death rates, and they are not factual, and they often ignore underlying health conditions.

The mathematical models do not take into account any potential treatment either. That is always the flaw in Malthusian thinking. The cure to peak oil was fracking and not the stupid war in Iraq. That is the often destructive nature of Malthusian thinking.

After listening to Dr. Osterholm and his refreshing honesty, I realized that what eventually likely will happen is that most people will get the virus and form antibodies to it. This whole quarantine idea is that hopefully the virus will spread more slowly and not overwhelm our health care system.

It is funny though that people treat this like a life and death decision when there is really nothing that can be done as of now. People want to do something when something like this is on the news day and night experts and government give people things to do, and they want a novel solution to a new problem. But really, the best thing to do is the same old same old advice: If you are diabetic, control your sugars, if you have high blood pressure, take your medication, eat right, exercise, get plenty of sleep. Those seem to be the key to maintaining a healthy immunity and that more so than anything is going to prevent you from dying. It sure seems like everyone or nearly everyone is going to have to deal with this virus given how contagious it is.

Zeos1
03-20-20, 17:11
Ah, it was going so great, but now there is quarantine in Medellin. Rappi still works and delivers anything, but chicas 😭.

https://medellinguru.com/medellin-quarantine/Did the math on Colombia cases. Basically 10 times for every 8 to 10 days. Same basic pattern as everywhere else basically. Just different "kick off" times. Colombia at 128 last number I saw. And deaths will follow the same pattern. At around 1-3% of the active cases, although the numbers are worse than that in Italy. So far countries don't seem to be avoiding this progression, except China that seems to have managed to limit the spread within the country. It is now a low risk location. Unlike the US, Canada, Europe. Etc.

This starts to level out at some point. But only China has been through the cycle so far. Some countries like Japan seem to have flattened out the curve, but certainly not so in US, and too soon to say for Colombia, etc. Canada. Maybe, but not showing yet.

There's a two week lag with anything that is done. In Canada we're basically in a no contact mode - 6 feet distance if you have to be out. Nothing open except groceries, etc. Etc. In a couple of weeks hopefully we'll see a drop in the rate of increase. That's the best that can be hoped for. For a few months anyway. We're at 7-800 cases in Canada. US somewhere around 10 times that.

Zeos1
03-20-20, 17:18
Did the math on Colombia cases. Basically 10 times for every 8 to 10 days. Same basic pattern as everywhere else basically. Just different "kick off" times. Colombia at 128 last number I saw. And deaths will follow the same pattern. At around 1-3% of the active cases, although the numbers are worse than that in Italy. So far countries don't seem to be avoiding this progression, except China that seems to have managed to limit the spread within the country. It is now a low risk location. Unlike the US, Canada, Europe. Etc.

This starts to level out at some point. But only China has been through the cycle so far. Some countries like Japan seem to have flattened out the curve, but certainly not so in US, and too soon to say for Colombia, etc. Canada. Maybe, but not showing yet.

There's a two week lag with anything that is done. In Canada we're basically in a no contact mode - 6 feet distance if you have to be out. Nothing open except groceries, etc. Etc. In a couple of weeks hopefully we'll see a drop in the rate of increase. That's the best that can be hoped for. For a few months anyway. We're at 7-800 cases in Canada. US somewhere around 10 times that.Sorry for responding to my own post. But have to say this. To my friends in Colombia, and there are many. If you have any health issues, including just being old (like me) take care of yourselves. Meaning. In my opinion only. Lock yourselves away in your apartment, hotel. The other day as I was leaving Bogota I saw some older person being helped down the street by two family members. On the way to a clinic or something. I don't know what it was. But this thing could be in the thousands already in the cities. Apparently the numbers that actually have it can be as much as 10 times as those actually getting diagnosed. Anyway. The chances of running into it are going up by 10 times every few days. Say every 10 days roughly. So take care.

Mojo Bandit
03-20-20, 17:39
First part not directly related to Colombia but following up on Elvis 2008 post. Pretty sure this is the land border.

Trump announces USA -Mexico border closure to stem spread of coronavirus.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/19/u-s-mexico-officials-look-ban-non-essential-travel-across-border/2874497001/

I noticed that one can still find flights to some of these destinations but with a huge link to the warning about the international travel advisory that basically says you may not get back into the country at any time in the foreseeable future.

YippieKayay
03-20-20, 17:59
Not directly related to Colombia but following up on Elvis 2008 post. Pretty sure this is the land border and.

Trump announces USA -Mexico border closure to stem spread of coronavirus.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/19/u-s-mexico-officials-look-ban-non-essential-travel-across-border/2874497001/

I noticed that one can still find flights to some of these destinations but with a huge link to the warning about the international travel advisory that basically says you may not get back into the country at any time in the foreseeable future.It's not closed. They're stopping non-essential traffic. No tourists are going to be allowed in. You can still travel for work, hence trucks are still going to get through.

LoveItHere69
03-20-20, 18:45
Reading the list of Exceptions to the Quarantine Order.

Personnel and vehicles that carry out the operation and logistics of the Medellin Lottery draw.

JjBee62
03-20-20, 19:05
Seriously, is English your primary language? Because you are having a difficult time understanding some simple English. The death rate is not a count of anything, it is a percentage. Do you believe the confirmed count is an accurate count of everyone who has contracted the virus? If you can agree that there are people with the virus who have not been counted, then the death rate is not accurate. An inaccurate number used to determine a rate renders the rate inaccurate, which is useless.A mortality rate is rarely going to be accurate. Only with rare, completely contained outbreaks is there any chance to get it exactly right. Do you believe every case of the flu gets reported? Every year it's just an estimate.

To consider the other side, not every death caused by a disease is attributed to the disease. How many pneumonia deaths throughout Asia weren't attributed to COVID-19? Pneumonia is fairly common. At least early on, nobody knew to check for coronavirus.

But a mortality rate, or CFR (Case Fatality Ratio), as the researchers call it is useful, even at the beginning, when it's the most inaccurate. It provides a worst case potential for the disease. Which gives us the ability to overreact. In the case of infectious disease, overreacting is very important.

This seems to be your blind spot. The CFR in Wuhan was over 12%. That's high. Especially with a transmission rate over 2. Transmission rate is the number of people each infected person is expected to infect. In Italy CFR is 8%, still high. In the US we currently have no idea because widespread testing is still not happening. We'll have a better idea in a few weeks.

With an infectious disease, especially one which threatens to overwhelm our healthcare system, we can't wait until it's over, count up the dead and then decide if we should take it seriously. If your house is on fire, you don't stand around watching until it goes out, before deciding if you want to call the fire department. It's much better to have 4 firetrucks show up and have 1 guy put out the fire in 10 seconds than have nobody show up and 30 houses burn down.

That "useless", "inaccurate" "death rate" is why the world is shutdown. Again, it doesn't matter how useless you think it is. The people who have spent their entire careers working with these types of outbreaks don't think the numbers are useless. The people governments around the world call in any time there is an outbreak don't think the numbers are useless.

Unless you want to provide some credentials, showing your opinion is more valid than the WHO, CDC and NIH, I'm going to stick with them.

JjBee62
03-20-20, 19:45
First part not directly related to Colombia but following up on Elvis 2008 post. Pretty sure this is the land border.

Trump announces USA -Mexico border closure to stem spread of coronavirus.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/19/u-s-mexico-officials-look-ban-non-essential-travel-across-border/2874497001/

I noticed that one can still find flights to some of these destinations but with a huge link to the warning about the international travel advisory that basically says you may not get back into the country at any time in the foreseeable future.Same with the Canadian land border. Fortunately, I'm essential, regardless of what some may think. I'll be continuing to run back and forth across the border.

Surfer500
03-21-20, 01:50
Same with the Canadian land border. Fortunately, I'm essential, regardless of what some may think. I'll be continuing to run back and forth across the border.I think your off a bit, did you mean to say "inessential".

Surfer500
03-21-20, 01:58
First part not directly related to Colombia but following up on Elvis 2008 post. Pretty sure this is the land border.

Trump announces USA -Mexico border closure to stem spread of coronavirus.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/19/u-s-mexico-officials-look-ban-non-essential-travel-across-border/2874497001/

I noticed that one can still find flights to some of these destinations but with a huge link to the warning about the international travel advisory that basically says you may not get back into the country at any time in the foreseeable future.Well I am hosed, I live an hour and a half drive from Tijuana, and also have SENTRI to facilitate crossing back into the USA, but am not sure if banging hookers in Tijuana would qualify as "essential travel" by the CBP, but I consider it essential travel.

Surfer500
03-21-20, 02:17
Ah, it was going so great, but now there is quarantine in Medellin. Rappi still works and delivers anything, but chicas 😭.

https://medellinguru.com/medellin-quarantine/I don't understand the logic of only a three day quarantine. Lots of people go out of town and travel on a holiday weekend and I can understand what their doing, but what happens on Tuesday, everything goes back to normal.

Is this perhaps a predecessor to weekend shutdowns moving forward? Doing what they want to do will help, but unless it's done like what's happening in other Countries like full time, it will only further delay the inevitable.

I think the Colombian Government is afraid to go into full shut down mode shuttering everything, and I can't blame them. This whole situation is so sad.

AdventureSeekr
03-21-20, 02:32
I am comparing total deaths because we don't really know the death rate. Unless everyone was tested, we would not know the number of cases. So the death rate we are seeing is pretty much useless. For the coronavirus, it is now at about 1.5% in the US, and earlier reports showed it at 3.4%.

I don't know the relevance of most deaths in China are in one region. A majority of the deaths in the US are in two states.I've been showing ultimate restraint in not responding to your absolute, undeniable idiocy.

You're saying the DEATH RATE is not accurate because we don't know the total number of infections BUT you 100% trust the number of DEATHS that are recorded, do you even realize how idiotic that is?

Do you not realize there are 10 different ways to prove this number is also inaccurate? I'm sorry to start insulting people here, but you're a dumbass.

The 3. 4% mortality rate is a worldwide figure. There have been models generated that took account for the various changing factors you enjoy cherry-picking to fit your unfounded beliefs, including: not knowing all infections, not knowing all deaths because China was only recording deaths from people who were diagnosed positive covid BEFORE death, knowing many deaths have been attributed to pneumonia and not covid in certain countries like Thailand, taking into account the 10-20 day delay between infection growth and mortality. I could keep going. These models still found 3-4% mortality rate to be accurate in a variety of scenarios.

Clearly you think you are smarter than every advanced nation in the world, all the doctors who are fighting this, and the medical professionals working 20 hour shifts in the countries that have had spread before the US must all be lying about the severity of the issue. COME ON. You are not just irredeemably stupid, you may actually be retarded. If you are, let us know, I'll stop getting on you for it, because at least there would be a reason for this.

I've posted so many published, reviewed medical journal studies in this forum, it's absurd. I'm not doing more research for people, this shit is all easily searchable. I've been posting about it since China was below 20,000 confirmed cases. People were saying it was nonsense then. It took 7 weeks to get to 100,000 cases, it took 10 days to get to 200,000 cases, now we're at 275,000 cases in just 3 more days. We're going to be seeing 100,000 cases per day in less than a week. Clearly there are more, the bottleneck is TESTING.

I'll say it again, there is a 10-20 day DELAY FROM INFECTION TO DEATH, comparing current deaths to current infections is incorrect math. You said this "So the death rate we are seeing is pretty much useless. For the coronavirus, it is now at about 1. 5% in the US, and earlier reports showed it at 3. 4%. ".

So, you say the death rate is useless, but then in your very next sentence you infer it isn't that serious because it is 1. 5% vs 3. 4%, not even realizing that your math is wrong. JESUS CHRIST.

Here is another glimpse into your absolute genius "A majority of the deaths in the US are in two states. ".

I hope your tiny brain can understand that this is not contained by state lines. What in the actual f* does that have to do with anything? The US is borderline about to have the highest daily growth rate of any country in the world, give it two days. Do you even know how to read a graph?

There is so much data on this, it is overwhelming. How we are still arguing about this is blowing my mind.

Mojo Bandit
03-21-20, 02:38
Since we had been discussing this drug earlier in the thread, when I saw this article in the Mercury News it seemed like something that should be mentioned.

Be very careful self dosing chloroquine. Virus drug touted by President Trump, Elon Musk. Chloroquine can kill with just two gram dose. A Wuhan Institute of Virology study found that the drug can kill an adult just dosed at twice the daily amount recommended for treatment, which is one gram. It's forbidden for pregnant women as it can cause congenital defects in babies. The drug cannot be given to pregnant women, those with heart disease, terminal liver and renal disease, retina and hearing loss and patients on antibiotics such as azithromycin and steroid.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/20/virus-drug-touted-by-president-trump-elon-musk-can-kill-with-just-two-gram-dose/

AdventureSeekr
03-21-20, 02:53
Since we had been discussing this drug earlier in the thread, when I saw this article in the Mercury News it seemed like something that should be mentioned.

Be very careful self dosing chloroquine. Virus drug touted by President Trump, Elon Musk. Chloroquine can kill with just two gram dose. A Wuhan Institute of Virology study found that the drug can kill an adult just dosed at twice the daily amount recommended for treatment, which is one gram. It's forbidden for pregnant women as it can cause congenital defects in babies. The drug cannot be given to pregnant women, those with heart disease, terminal liver and renal disease, retina and hearing loss and patients on antibiotics such as azithromycin and steroid.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/20/virus-drug-touted-by-president-trump-elon-musk-can-kill-with-just-two-gram-dose/I saw this in Bloomberg too. It's not entirely accurate. Chloro is quite safe and one of the best protocols for covid is both Chloro and Azithro. I know people who have been taking Chloro for 25 years for autoimmune disease and while they get checked every 6 months, they have had no adverse side effects. Aspirin can also kill you at high doses. That article is very misleading and has inconsistencies.

Here are multiple studies on the safety of Chloro and Cardiac Safety:

https://academic.oup.com/europace/article/16/6/887/559803

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16942005

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2460205

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circep.111.966820

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM195804172581608

YippieKayay
03-21-20, 03:02
I hope your tiny brain can understand that this is not contained by state lines. What in the actual f* does that have to do with anything? The US is borderline about to have the highest daily growth rate of any country in the world, give it two days. Do you even know how to read a graph?

There is so much data on this, it is overwhelming. How we are still arguing about this is blowing my mind.Yes, unfortunately the US may end up in the same place as Italy:

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/3/20/21179040/coronavirus-us-italy-not-overreacting

At least statistically speaking its moving down the same path. This is why governments are putting in all these measures. Or as the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada said, and I paraphrase: we don't want to just flatten the curve, we want to plank it.

What's shocking to me is that the UK only today had restaurants and bars close down. WTF. They took this long?

Mojo Bandit
03-21-20, 03:21
I am comparing total deaths because we don't really know the death rate. Unless everyone was tested, we would not know the number of cases. So the death rate we are seeing is pretty much useless. For the coronavirus, it is now at about 1.5% in the US, and earlier reports showed it at 3.4%.

I don't know the relevance of most deaths in China are in one region. A majority of the deaths in the US are in two states.


You are not just irredeemably stupid, you may actually be retarded. .Can we please try to refrain from name calling and stick to attacking the idiotic information. Fun Luvr is vomiting out erroneous opinions in the face of world class expertise. But let's attack the information and refrain from the name calling.

Fun Luvr
03-21-20, 03:53
You're saying the DEATH RATE is not accurate because we don't know the total number of infections BUT you 100% trust the number of DEATHS that are recorded, do you even realize how idiotic that is?

Here is another glimpse into your absolute genius "A majority of the deaths in the US are in two states. ".
I hope your tiny brain can understand that this is not contained by state lines. What in the actual f* does that have to do with anything? The US is borderline about to have the highest daily growth rate of any country in the world, give it two days. Do you even know how to read a graph?You are cherry picking in an attempt to verify your statements. I was responding to another poster's question of whether I was using the death rate or death count. I was explaining why I didn't use the death rate, and I never said nor implied that the death count was an accurate coronavirus death count. The 1.5% and 3.4% rates were used to show that the death rate was not very useful. That is the reason it was the next sentence after my comment about the usefulness of the death rate. 3.4% was the reported US death rate a few days ago, before testing was ramped up.

The sentence immediately before the two states comment is "I don't know the relevance of most deaths in China are in one region." But it's probably too much to ask you to comprehend two sentences that are together in the same paragraph.

Nounce
03-21-20, 04:30
The sentence immediately before the two states comment is "I don't know the relevance of most deaths in China are in one region." But it's probably too much to ask you to comprehend two sentences that are together in the same paragraph.


Has it hit China yet? Their reported death toll is 15% of the estimated deaths in the US from the flu since October 2019.

Not saying anything is correct or wrong. Just an explanation of my earlier post


Most deaths in China are in one region.



The population of Hubei is less than 60 million. The population of China is more than 1. 3 billion. You are comparing a regional population that is much smaller than the entire US population.

Waiting for world class expert to comment further.

Zeos1
03-21-20, 14:54
Take care of yourselves. Everyone. About all that can be said. Most countries / places are now locked down. No more travel in and out either already or very soon. So if you're in Colombia I wish you well. I got out last week. And I'm glad I was able to, but not saying that staying for an extended time would have been the end of the world. Just that everyone is now in survival mode. And rightly so.

A few countries thought of just riding it out, letting the thing run it's course. The UK actually said this early on. But now they've changed their mind. Canada took the opposite side relatively early on. So basically everything is shut down, everyone coming in or back is quarantined for 2 weeks, etc. Time will tell if it "flattens the curve". The lag time is at least 2 weeks between taking an action and starting to see any results.

The basic math seems to be about 10 times more every 10 days. So whatever the infection rate, deaths, whatever. In simple terms looks to be growing at that rate. Some countries have "flattened the curve", have it growing at a slower rate than that, and have the rate of increase slowing. China managed to mostly confine it to one province, and it is basically over in that province it appears. But no other country has the capability to do it the way they did.

The key "actions" are to stay out of coughing and sneezing range, and don't touch things and then your face. This one doesn't spread through air. It spreads only on droplets or on surfaces. So it's not that hard to avoid. Well, hard maybe, but not impossible. I would say do your own voluntary quarantine. And that means without visitors. Especially as time goes on.

Anyway. Take care everyone. Hope to get back sometime in a year or so. Might not be possible then, but we'll see.

Nounce
03-21-20, 18:33
A few countries thought of just riding it out, letting the thing run it's course. The UK actually said this early on. But now they've changed their mind. That thinking probably is misinformed. The virus has more opportunities to mutate when there are more infections.

Knowledge
03-21-20, 23:25
I saw that, it made my jaw drop.


Reading the list of Exceptions to the Quarantine Order.

Personnel and vehicles that carry out the operation and logistics of the Medellin Lottery draw.

Knowledge
03-21-20, 23:41
What happened to Ebola? I remember it was highly infectious with a very low survival rate. I vaguely remember in 2014 a woman who was lambasted in the media when she was seen outside her house in Maine after possibly being exposed to the virus. Is because it started in Africa and was more isolated from the rest of the world? I'm trying to reconcile how something so deadly can be a distant memory but something with a single digit death rate and 80% recovery is causing the havoc it is causing. My political viewpoint tells me it's a case of something that affected mostly Africans doesn't matter to the rest of the world.


Those countries don't test as much. That's why you're seeing low numbers right now. The data isn't being collected. They are going to have an outbreak worse than other countries and when people start dropping the flies you'll see it in the news.

This isn't just one strain of the virus. We're going to see three or four waves over the next two years. A vaccine may help lower the spread but its highly infectious (R2. 2 which means everyone spreads it to two other people at least). Things are not going to be normal this year. Maybe sometime next year if enough herd immunity has built up. In the meantime western industrialized countries are trying to avoid a situation like the one in Italy, hence social distancing, to slow the spread.

Knowledge
03-22-20, 00:05
I saw lingering effects of the partying lifestsyle you mentioned.


Wow, that's hilarious. I used to party HARD in college with Greg. We didn't stay in touch after college but that guy was a fucking party animal. Fucking wild to see him here on this video.

Knowledge
03-22-20, 00:18
Breaking news, all domestic flights are suspended through April 13.

So far the lockdown hasn't been very troublesome. It was very quiet around town today. I got a whatsapp from a Venezuelan I know from Botero Plaza that said Venezuelans don't feel they can be out of the house until Tuesday. I told her that it applies to everybody not just Venezuelans. It will be interesting to see how the next three weeks go. The mayor of Bogota got into a territorial spat with Duque today that was amusing. Several Duque supporters reminded her only the President has the authority to impose national lockdowns and national lockdowns supersede any local measures. She hinted at a less strict curfew for Bogota. The head of the national police made a statement in support of Duque.


Totally smart move on his part, maybe I should of stayed instead of leaving. Besides the bitching about Gusto's on the Medellin thread, it sounds like a field day for those either stuck in Medellin or there by choice, hopefully this measure, and others taken by the Colombian Government will help it to avoid the holocausts that have, and / or going to occur in other Countries, including the USA in various parts.

Knowledge
03-22-20, 01:34
Last week I was surprised to see long lines at clinics. I asked a girl in line what was up and she told me they were waiting to be tested for coronavirus. The people were not even 6 inches apart let alone six feet. The test results help track the virus for sure but me personally a positive or negative result isn't going to change me isolating myself. A home test would be more interesting to me. Switching gears to the lockdown, the police are enforcing it for the second night in a row with help from the weather. Both nights it started to rain hard as soon as the sun went down. I'm switching it up tonight, uber eats Indian food from Naan in Laureles. No dates scheduled until Tuesday, I need a break.


Sorry for responding to my own post. But have to say this. To my friends in Colombia, and there are many. If you have any health issues, including just being old (like me) take care of yourselves. Meaning. In my opinion only. Lock yourselves away in your apartment, hotel. The other day as I was leaving Bogota I saw some older person being helped down the street by two family members. On the way to a clinic or something. I don't know what it was. But this thing could be in the thousands already in the cities. Apparently the numbers that actually have it can be as much as 10 times as those actually getting diagnosed. Anyway. The chances of running into it are going up by 10 times every few days. Say every 10 days roughly. So take care.

Knowledge
03-22-20, 01:40
The border is closed as of today. As of Tuesday all domestic flights are suspended until mid April. Even Colombian citizens are not allowed in, or out. We are North Korea now. Speaking of them, that might be a place with a lot of coronavirus with all the back and forth with China.


It's not closed. They're stopping non-essential traffic. No tourists are going to be allowed in. You can still travel for work, hence trucks are still going to get through.

YippieKayay
03-22-20, 02:56
The border is closed as of today. As of Tuesday all domestic flights are suspended until mid April. Even Colombian citizens are not allowed in, or out. We are North Korea now. Speaking of them, that might be a place with a lot of coronavirus with all the back and forth with China.We were referring to the US border with Mexico and Canada.

TimeKeeper281
03-22-20, 08:33
Ebola was not an airborne virus and it did not get into any big cities.


What happened to Ebola? I remember it was highly infectious with a very low survival rate. I vaguely remember in 2014 a woman who was lambasted in the media when she was seen outside her house in Maine after possibly being exposed to the virus. Is because it started in Africa and was more isolated from the rest of the world? I'm trying to reconcile how something so deadly can be a distant memory but something with a single digit death rate and 80% recovery is causing the havoc it is causing. My political viewpoint tells me it's a case of something that affected mostly Africans doesn't matter to the rest of the world.

Surfer500
03-22-20, 16:11
The border is closed as of today. As of Tuesday all domestic flights are suspended until mid April. Even Colombian citizens are not allowed in, or out. We are North Korea now. Speaking of them, that might be a place with a lot of Coronavirus with all the back and forth with China.My bet is the "hermit nation" is roiling with infections, and the way they are handling is most probably by doing nothing, in other words taking no extreme measures, treating it like the flu, no respirators, nobody in ICU's, just let everybody get it, except the Dictator, and avoid the financial impacts with less mouths to feed after whatever the percentage of the population has expired. Sound extreme, maybe not for that Country.

Knowledge
03-22-20, 18:34
I was thinking the same. It is consistent with the way that government deals with shortages and the population's basic needs. Documentaries that include secretly recorded video are emotionally devastating. My only doubt is how likely it is anyone there would even notice an outbreak of coronavirus because there are so many other severe public health crises. Remember the parasites pulled out of the gut of that border guard who escaped under a hail of bullets? Reports are he was better fed and cared for than most North Koreans because of his military role.

A bit of Colombia content, the weather is beautiful today. I notice people and cars start to move about about half an hour ago. I'm going to take a walk over to the Exito on la 70 for snacks and toiletries. And to check out the talent of course.


My bet is the "hermit nation" is roiling with infections, and the way they are handling is most probably by doing nothing, in other words taking no extreme measures, treating it like the flu, no respirators, nobody in ICU's, just let everybody get it, except the Dictator, and avoid the financial impacts with less mouths to feed after whatever the percentage of the population has expired. Sound extreme, maybe not for that Country.

Nounce
03-22-20, 19:52
Here is the transcript of an video from Italy. Check the last part of the transcript.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/817974987

The doctor publishes this paper.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20) 30627-9/ fulltext.

Mojo Bandit
03-22-20, 20:47
Here is the transcript of an video from Italy. Check the last part of the transcript.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/817974987

The doctor publishes this paper.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20) 30627-9/ fulltext.The second link is not working when I click it nor when I copy and paste, can you list the title of the article in the Lancet?

AdventureSeekr
03-22-20, 20:57
The second link is not working when I click it nor when I copy and paste, can you list the title of the article in the Lancet?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30627-9/fulltext

COVID-19 and Italy: what next?

Nounce
03-22-20, 21:02
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30627-9/fulltext

COVID-19 and Italy: what next?Thank you.

Zeos1
03-22-20, 21:27
Thank you.Italy has been locked down now for around 2 weeks. But death rates are still going up. 7-800 per day, infection over 20,000. Spain looking the same. Couple of days behind. US starting to look the same. Many European countries, Belgium, France, etc. Similar progression.

So only good news is countries that got out ahead of it and then vigorously pursued every single case and every contact of every case. Taiwan started in mid January. And has kept it form taking off. South Korea started a bit late. But seems to have gotten it under control. Japan as well. And China. Looking very good even though it got away in Hubei. But they basically didn't let anyone be out when they cracked down on it. Robot monitors, drones, cameras everywhere.

Apparently in Italy the big thing now is it's spreading within families. One person has it. Then 2 or 3 more, then most of them. So the staying away has to be also in the homes. Ie. 6 ft, and sterile hands, etc.

Nounce
03-22-20, 21:47
Apparently in Italy the big thing now is it's spreading within families. One person has it. Then 2 or 3 more, then most of them. So the staying away has to be also in the homes. Ie. 6 ft, and sterile hands, etc.I read in another article.

A lesson learned in Italy is do't treat COVID-19 patients in a hospital with other patients (The article calls this as western centralized system) because they infect other patients. Either treat them at home (de-centralized) or treat them in a hospital that is only for COVID-19 patients.

Blue Touch
03-23-20, 03:19
Several prison riots broke out.

https://colombiareports.com/colombia-says-at-least-23-killed-91-injured-in-mass-prison-riots/

Mojo Bandit
03-23-20, 11:37
Several prison riots broke out.

https://colombiareports.com/colombia-says-at-least-23-killed-91-injured-in-mass-prison-riots/Maybe they should let the nonviolent older offenders serve their time under house arrest.

Knowledge
03-23-20, 14:39
That was the #2 story on TV news all day yesterday. It was quite something, a big crowd of relatives faced off with police in riot gear outside the La Modelo prision. There was scary footage from helicopters of big fires. The Minister of Justice made a nationwide address to announce the riots were put down and no prisoners escaped. She confirmed the whole thing started as an escape plot but that the plot was "frustrated".


Maybe they should let the nonviolent older offenders serve their time under house arrest.

Knowledge
03-23-20, 14:45
Meanwhile, the Secretary of Agriculture is on teleantioquia now announcing that the supply chain is operating perfectly and there are no shortages. His remarks are consistent with what I observed at an Exito yesterday. It was fully stocked and I was surprised to see both the meat section and fresh produce also fully stocked. He just mentioned that Mayorista and Minorista would be open this week. I'll stick to Exito.

He also repeated the President's warning about speculation and gouging twice. There are fines and prison sentences in force.

Zeos1
03-23-20, 17:51
I read in another article.

A lesson learned in Italy is do't treat COVID-19 patients in a hospital with other patients (The article calls this as western centralized system) because they infect other patients. Either treat them at home (de-centralized) or treat them in a hospital that is only for COVID-19 patients.Essentially what is being done here. Hospital only for those who need intensive care. Otherwise health department monitors people at home. So far under control here. But New York and I think part of California it is out of control. New York is rapidly approaching Italy in numbers. Though not deaths so far. Could be a lag effect. NY went up by 30% in numbers today, may be lag effect as more people with it just now getting tested. Which would be a very bad sign.

YippieKayay
03-24-20, 02:54
Meanwhile, the Secretary of Agriculture is on teleantioquia now announcing that the supply chain is operating perfectly and there are no shortages. His remarks are consistent with what I observed at an Exito yesterday. It was fully stocked and I was surprised to see both the meat section and fresh produce also fully stocked. He just mentioned that Mayorista and Minorista would be open this week. I'll stick to Exito.

He also repeated the President's warning about speculation and gouging twice. There are fines and prison sentences in force.It hasn't even been a week. I doubt there will be any shortages anytime soon. Maybe if this went on for more than six months you'll start to see issues.

Elvis 2008
03-24-20, 03:17
I left Guadalajara yesterday and reluctantly came home. Airport was a ghost town and got through Customs in all of 4 minutes. Everyone was nice. Customs guy asked me why I left. I told him and he seemed more interested in hearing my story than interrogating me.

Copa cancelled or maybe didn't the last flight from Guadalajara to Panama City. I had to reroute my chica through Mexico City which was a disaster zone. I didn't want my chica in Mexico City due to the population density and told her that I would get her to Cancun and a cheap hotel where she could wait out the quarantine there if the flight to Medellin didn't pan out. She was on an Interjet flight to Medellin, and she got on it and made it home. I gave her $150 in walking around money, and she told me that she spent a big chunk of it on food for others. She was in tears talking to me about how many people were stranded there and were hungry or just frustrated. I wonder if we really needed these abrupt quarantines or not. A lot of them seemed cruel and unusual.

Still, the last sane place in the world got insane finally. Our last night out all but two of the restaurants were closed, but we had a great meal at a place called La Casita. It is a grocery store with a cafe and is loaded with American goods. We bought a suitcase and loaded her up with American canned goods, Raman, soup ETC. There was a can of crab. She asked what it was and the translator heard crap instead of crab and translated it to mierda. She got that, tuna, and Alaskan salmon: not a bad haul. Walmart was packed as expected. I went to ten pharmacies trying to buy hydroxychlorquine but had no luck. I did get the azithromycin though.

We were both sad because we aren't going to see each other for a while. She was thinking it will be 30 days, and I felt it will be more like 60. Our last day though was great. We headed to Lake Chapala about an hour from downtown Guadalajara: the lake was filled with beautiful pelicans, the sun shone brightly, the skies were clear, and the mariachi bands played. When we were leaving, a wedding was getting under way and everyone in the wedding parties were on horseback. It sucks to have come back, to be secluded, to stop living for a while, but I will have that last day to cherish. There were a lot of worse places to be than with a gorgeous, sensual Colombian by one's side in the beauty of a hot Mexican day before the end of the world as we know it.

Jesus, what the fuck is it with these Colombian women? Why do I think all the other ethnicities are a complete waste of time?

Mojo Bandit
03-24-20, 03:41
t Mayorista and Minorista would be open this week. I'll stick to Exito.I have never been out there but have always been curious about Mayorista. The area that's center is Calle 81 and Carrera 48. Is this primarily a wholesales warehouse area? Do some of these places have a retail counter also? Even still though it probably would not make any sense to go out there unless a person cooked most of their meals. Has anyone reading this ever been there?

JjBee62
03-24-20, 03:42
I've been rather busy and haven't had a chance to follow up on the chloroquine miracle cure. Just got more information on it.

It was initially reported that in a study of 20 patients, all responded well to treatment with chloroquine. The problem is, 20 patients is a tiny study. It's not nearly large enough to be determinative. Turns out there's another problem with the study.

There were actually 26 people involved in the study, but 6 were excluded from the final results. Of those 6, 1 died and 3 were admitted to ICU.

Once again, it was too small of a study to develop any statistical accuracy, but it's not the perfect cure some have been claiming it is.

Surfer500
03-24-20, 04:35
I have never been out there but have always been curious about Mayorista. The area that's center is Calle 81 and Carrera 48. Is this primarily a wholesales warehouse area? Do some of these places have a retail counter also? Even still though it probably would not make any sense to go out there unless a person cooked most of their meals. Has anyone reading this ever been there?There used to be a small scale street scene that many years ago was good, but I haven't heard much about the place lately. It' basically like one block long with short time Hotels and Chicas, but the last I was there was many years ago. I believe there are other members that can update us on it. As far as food, etc. It's not like Minorista, with it being one of the cheapest places in town to buy food besides from individual vendors with carts.

JjBee62
03-24-20, 11:50
I've been rather busy and haven't had a chance to follow up on the chloroquine miracle cure. Just got more information on it.

It was initially reported that in a study of 20 patients, all responded well to treatment with chloroquine. The problem is, 20 patients is a tiny study. It's not nearly large enough to be determinative. Turns out there's another problem with the study.

There were actually 26 people involved in the study, but 6 were excluded from the final results. Of those 6, 1 died and 3 were admitted to ICU.

Once again, it was too small of a study to develop any statistical accuracy, but it's not the perfect cure some have been claiming it is.An Arizona man is dead and his wife is in critical care after they self-medicated with Chloroquine. Just saw the story this morning.

And that's why you don't take medical advice from someone who has never studied medicine.

JjBee62
03-24-20, 11:53
I have never been out there but have always been curious about Mayorista. The area that's center is Calle 81 and Carrera 48. Is this primarily a wholesales warehouse area? Do some of these places have a retail counter also? Even still though it probably would not make any sense to go out there unless a person cooked most of their meals. Has anyone reading this ever been there?At least some of the places have a retail counter and there's a Euro store there.

Balboa
03-24-20, 22:33
An Arizona man is dead and his wife is in critical care after they self-medicated with Chloroquine. Just saw the story this morning.

And that's why you don't take medical advice from someone who has never studied medicine.Yes, but you didn't mention this.

"In Arizona, a man died after reportedly taking a nonmedical form of chloroquine used to fight parasites in aquariums".

Half truths don't work either.

Also I researched and found this.

" The CDC cited a study, documented in the journal Bioscience Trends this month, that chloroquine phosphate has demonstrated 'apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19-associated pneumonia' in trials in China.

It is thus considered a recommended antiviral for Covid-19 treatment in China, and several countries are recommending both drugs for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, the CDC said".

Of course we must be be cautious.

" The drugs may be effective against the novel coronavirus, Fauci said, but more data is needed to "show it is truly safe and effective under the conditions of Covid-19. ".

There must be something to the drug, at least for the Gov of NY.

"New York moved to begin trials Tuesday, procuring 70,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine and 750,000 doses of chloroquine, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said. In addition, Bayer, the drug maker, has donated 3 million doses of Resochin, its brand name for chloroquine, to the federal government".

Please don't shoot the messenger because you don't like him.

I personally am tired of the politics getting involved in this crisis, both medically and in the financial world.

I'm an Independent politically, fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

I give credit to those who I believe deserve it, like the Democratic Governor of NY for his leadership in this crisis as well as others including Pres Trump for stopping traffic early on from China, and many others.

Let's get this world thru this crisis together, and put politics aside.

Not aimed at you personally, but everyone, including myself.

JjBee62
03-24-20, 23:50
Yes, but you didn't mention this.

"In Arizona, a man died after reportedly taking a nonmedical form of chloroquine used to fight parasites in aquariums".

Half truths don't work either.

Also I researched and found this.

" The CDC cited a study, documented in the journal Bioscience Trends this month, that chloroquine phosphate has demonstrated 'apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19-associated pneumonia' in trials in China.

It is thus considered a recommended antiviral for Covid-19 treatment in China, and several countries are recommending both drugs for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, the CDC said".

Of course we must be be cautious. maker, has donated 3 million doses of Resochin, its brand name for chloroquine, to the federal government".The issue is that certain people, without medical credentials, have touted the effectiveness of Chloroquine. This leads some people to choose to self medicate, rarely a good idea, even if you use the correct pharmaceutical rather than a similar, commercially available product, not intended for human consumption.

In my opinion, anyone touting a cure is being irresponsible. The media and the general public aren't going to run clinical trials. The medical research institutes will and they're already aware of the potential benefits. Rather than calling a press conference, the directors who will be running trials should have been called. "What is your opinion on this? Are you investigating this? What do you need from us? How long before you will have some answers?

The time to talk about a cure, is when that cure is tried, tested and available.

Dr. Fauci is correct. It's something to look into. Cuomo is correct, we need large scale trials to determine safety and effectiveness.

I spent nearly 6 years in the Navy working with casualty control response. We ran frequent drills covering any feasible scenario as well as cases which had occurred elsewhere. The intent was to be certain everyone knew what to do in any casualty. We worked hard to make the drills as realistic as possible.

1. Identify the casualty.

2. Inform the necessary people.

3. Take immediate corrective action.

4. Review response to ensure proper action taken.

5. Take recovery steps.

6. Restore systems to normal.

7. Critique action of all involved, determine cause, determine contributing factors, alter response based upon lessons learned.

Communication is critical. Not to the crew or public, but between the people who are dealing with the casualty.

Whether it's flooding, a fire or failure of a critical component, these steps work. What isn't included: Downplay the severity. Consider moderating response or limiting corrective action. Find someone to blame. Calculate the cost. Deny responsibility.

In any emergency or casualty situation, I judge the actions of those in charge based upon the straightforward rules I lived under. It has nothing to do with politics. Are the correct actions being taken? Until the casualty is over that's all I care about.

If this emergency had been one of our casualty control drills, we would have shut it down 2 months ago and rated it a complete failure.

I'm politically flexible, fiscally flexible and socially liberal. Solutions must adapt to problems. Problems will not adapt to fit the available solutions.

Elvis 2008
03-25-20, 00:30
An Arizona man is dead and his wife is in critical care after they self-medicated with Chloroquine. Just saw the story this morning.
It is funny how that story has been so promoted by Trump and how hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine working has not been pushed at all. It is almost as if someone in government does not want people panic buying the stuff.

Actually, hydroxychloroquine is ridiculously safe. The use of that drug with azithromycin can prolong the QT interval which is what everyone is focusing on which is meaningless to most lay people. It is much more effective to say "you could die just like this guy in Arizona did" to scare people into not panic buying these drugs.

When I was in Mexico, I stocked up on azithromycin and went to 10 pharmacies looking for hydroxychloroquinine and cholroquinine and couldn't find either. I found one place that had it and they sold out. I asked around in the USA and it is not on pharmacy shelves or even at the distributors level which is probably for the best. I think it is being rationed to the people who are truly sick.

Thailand has been using an antiviral drug with a lot of success and again it hasn't gotten much airtime, and it shouldn't. I am seeing predictions of the virus spreading in line with the medical models now which is scary. The last thing we need now is people thinking there are effective treatments so they do not have to stay in.

Anyway, there were two articles that really changed how I thought about things, the first was the coach of the NO Saints who had a typical case of the virus: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/23/sean-payton-coronavirus-tom-brady-bucs-nfl-fmia-peter-king/.

Then what really got me was this bird's eye view from a respiratory therapist: https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients?fbclid=IwAR01jUGntqEsNOwS1_bCrApMlZfMYpEyrXdyFnh8dwQDLzR85BgpviKcbzU.

It took me a while to get a handle on what this was. There has been too much of this "listen to us we are the government" and stupid political hand ringing over what to name the virus and other things. Quite frankly, the government has cried wolf so much that many people including me were slow to accept that this time what was going on was a real problem and not government and the media making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Surfer500
03-25-20, 01:30
An Arizona man is dead and his wife is in critical care after they self-medicated with Chloroquine. Just saw the story this morning.

And that's why you don't take medical advice from someone who has never studied medicine.Clarification on this one, the Arizona man actually took chloroquine phosphate, a household product used to clean fish tanks. They took a household product versus a " prescribed medication ".

This is a sad story and illustrates how bad this whole thing is when people are taking cleaning products versus prescribed medicines to fend off the virus.

Elvis 2008
03-25-20, 04:01
I took Chlororquine and Mefloquine (Lariam). Yeah, I wonder if mefloquine would work as well.

Anyway, the best resources for keeping track of Cololmbia seem to be wiki.

I found the best province map here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_Colombia.

And then the most up to date count here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Colombia.

I just thought I would point out what I found interesting. The three most populous cities in Colombia are Bogota and Medellin (no surprise there) but Cali has twice as many people as Cartagena and Cartagena is 5th most populous behind Barranquilla. In fact, if you add Soledad, the seventh biggest city and Barranquilla the 4th most populous city, you are pretty close population wise to Medellin or Cali, and the case load is 1 to 9 in the province of Atlantico where Barranquilla and Soledad are located versus 50+ in Bogota and Medellin / Antioquia and 30+ in Cali / Valle de Cauca.

So we have a rough idea of where the virus has started out, namely where the tourists usually come to. Cartagena has more cases than Barranquilla. Cali has fewer tourists than Medellin and Bogota and has fewer cases despite Cali and Medellin being about the same size population wise.

What I wonder is what happens in the coming weeks. If the virus really is heat sensitive, we should not nearly as many new cases in Cartagena versus Bogota and almost none in Barranquilla. I have not been to Cartagena but I got the impression it was much more population dense than Barranquilla. Barranquilla which is hot, not very population dense, and not a place foreigners typically come to, should continue to have fewer new cases.

Ty Down
03-25-20, 04:39
Yeah, I wonder if mefloquine would work as well.

Anyway, the best resources for keeping track of Cololmbia seem to be wiki.

I found the best province map here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_Colombia.

And then the most up to date count here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Colombia.

I just thought I would point out what I found interesting. The three most populous cities in Colombia are Bogota and Medellin (no surprise there) but Cali has twice as many people as Cartagena and Cartagena is 5th most populous behind Barranquilla. In fact, if you add Soledad, the seventh biggest city and Barranquilla the 4th most populous city, you are pretty close population wise to Medellin or Cali, and the case load is 1 to 9 in the province of Atlantico where Barranquilla and Soledad are located versus 50+ in Bogota and Medellin / Antioquia and 30+ in Cali / Valle de Cauca.

So we have a rough idea of where the virus has started out, namely where the tourists usually come to. Cartagena has more cases than Barranquilla. Cali has fewer tourists than Medellin and Bogota and has fewer cases despite Cali and Medellin being about the same size population wise.

What I wonder is what happens in the coming weeks. If the virus really is heat sensitive, we should not nearly as many new cases in Cartagena versus Bogota and almost none in Barranquilla. I have not been to Cartagena but I got the impression it was much more population dense than Barranquilla. Barranquilla which is hot, not very population dense, and not a place foreigners typically come to, should continue to have fewer new cases.To be honest, I haven't dug down into the country by country break down of the numbers yet, but I do know this, Virus's attenuate over time, as in, they get weaker over time. This is just one of the many reason's why human's have survived on Earth for millions of years.

In my opinion, this whole corona shitshow will be just another memory by July 2020.

Knowledge
03-25-20, 04:45
CNN en espanol does a nightly count of cases by country.


To be honest, I haven't dug down into the country by country break down of the numbers yet, but I do know this, Virus's attenuate over time, as in, they get weaker over time. This is just one of the many reason's why human's have survived on Earth for millions of years.

In my opinion, this whole corona shitshow will be just another memory by July 2020.

Mojo Bandit
03-25-20, 05:47
It is funny how that story has been so promoted by Trump and how hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine working has not been pushed at all. It is almost as if someone in government does not want people panic buying the stuff.I do not think there is a "conspiracy". Who in the "government" do you think is supposed to be pushing it; there is simply not enough evidence / I think there is even contradictory evidence. It made some patients in one study in China worse by cause renal and liver damage. But if you read the bloomberg story the Bayer company donated a bunch of the drug to New York and they are starting trials to get more information.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-25/hydroxychloroquine-no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study

So please consult a Doc before self meidcating.

People have overdosed on the medical version of this drug (you can overdose on anything but the margin is low here).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/africa/chloroquine-trump-nigeria-intl/index.html

"The CDC said the combination can disrupt the heart's electrical activity and warns against prescribing the paired drugs to anyone with chronic medical conditions, such as renal failure or hepatic disease".

Warnings about the dangers of drug interactions for heart patients taking other heart meds.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-options.html

Ty Down
03-25-20, 06:18
I do not think there is a "conspiracy". Who in the "government" do you think is supposed to be pushing it; there is simply not enough evidence / I think there is even contradictory evidence. It made some patients in one study in China worse by ]So you are the real deal huh?

YippieKayay
03-25-20, 06:44
I'll leave this here as a PSA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4

Lefeu
03-25-20, 07:19
I'll leave this here as a PSA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4That was eye opening presentation, right to the point.

Mojo Bandit
03-25-20, 07:33
So you are the real deal huh?I actually made a post apologizing because I accidently deleted your post. From my end the "delete post" and "reply with quote" are right next to each other, I went to reply and accidently deleted. IF I was trying to be a dick I would have deleted all of your post- because when I want to be a dick I am the real thing, but no it was an accident and I could not undo it. Then I made an apology post and was replying to your post and Elvis2008 at the same time with some of the same links and I do not know what happened but I do not see the apology. And by the way your inbox is full/

JjBee62
03-25-20, 18:29
It is funny how that story has been so promoted by Trump and how hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine working has not been pushed at all. It is almost as if someone in government does not want people panic buying the stuff.

Actually, hydroxychloroquine is ridiculously safe. The use of that drug with azithromycin can prolong the QT interval which is what everyone is focusing on which is meaningless to most lay people. It is much more effective to say "you could die just like this guy in Arizona did" to scare people into not panic buying these drugs.

When I was in Mexico, I stocked up on azithromycin and went to 10 pharmacies looking for hydroxychloroquinine and cholroquinine and couldn't find either. I found one place that had it and they sold out. I asked around in the USA and it is not on pharmacy shelves or even at the distributors level which is probably for the best. I think it is being rationed to the people who are truly sick..My experience with "ridiculously safe" drugs is different from yours. When I first joined the Navy, the safe drug prescribed for almost everything was Tylenol 3 with Codeine. If you went to medical, you walked out with a bottle of T3. At one time I had about 200 doses. Of course that was before we found out Tylenol isn't ridiculously safe. However, it was long after we knew Codeine was a potential problem.

Then along came the next "ridiculously safe" magic pill, Motrin. Out with the T3 and in with the 800 MG Motrin. Once again, it was prescribed for everything. Our standard hangover cure was 2400 MG washed down with a bloody Mary. Then we learned it's not quite as safe as we were all told.

Hydroxylchloroquininine might be an effective treatment, probably even. But, there will be some who react badly to it, there will be some it will be ineffective on and there will probably be some who it will kill, or cause other, previously unknown problems. That's why widespread studies are needed, so we can determine who it will cure and who it will kill before it's been administered.

JjBee62
03-25-20, 18:31
I actually made a post apologizing because I accidently deleted your post. From my end the "delete post" and "reply with quote" are right next to each other, I went to reply and accidently deleted. IF I was trying to be a dick I would have deleted all of your post- because when I want to be a dick I am the real thing, but no it was an accident and I could not undo it. Then I made an apology post and was replying to your post and Elvis2008 at the same time with some of the same links and I do not know what happened but I do not see the apology. And by the way your inbox is full/I made the same mistake once on a USASG blog I had. It's easy to do.

Ty Down
03-25-20, 19:46
I actually made a post apologizing because I accidently deleted your post. From my end the "delete post" and "reply with quote" are right next to each other, I went to reply and accidently deleted. IF I was trying to be a dick I would have deleted all of your post- because when I want to be a dick I am the real thing, but no it was an accident and I could not undo it. Then I made an apology post and was replying to your post and Elvis2008 at the same time with some of the same links and I do not know what happened but I do not see the apology. And by the way your inbox is full/No worries, apology accepted. We all make mistakes. Peace.

Elvis 2008
03-26-20, 03:40
Hydroxylchloroquininine might be an effective treatment, probably even. But, there will be some who react badly to it, there will be some it will be ineffective on and there will probably be some who it will kill, or cause other, previously unknown problems. That's why widespread studies are needed, so we can determine who it will cure and who it will kill before it's been administered.Hydroxychlorquine works in vitro and it likely does in people. Studies are not a luxury with some patients now, and the safety of the drug is well known given that it has been out for decades.

Look there are grownups, and the idiots who would hoard this stuff for themselves if the government did say it work as they did with toilet paper. I would do the same thing that the government is doing.

To this day, I still marvel at the stupidity with condoms and AIDS / HIV. It is amazing how many people think condoms do not have any side effects and work against HIV / AIDS, but I get it. If it means the scaring the shit out of guys thinking they WILL get AIDS and die to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions then I would be touting condom use too as "safe sex".

Knowledge
03-26-20, 23:28
I've heard of latex allergies. What are the other side effects of condoms?


Hydroxychlorquine works in vitro and it likely does in people. Studies are not a luxury with some patients now, and the safety of the drug is well known given that it has been out for decades.

Look there are grownups, and the idiots who would hoard this stuff for themselves if the government did say it work as they did with toilet paper. I would do the same thing that the government is doing.

To this day, I still marvel at the stupidity with condoms and AIDS / HIV. It is amazing how many people think condoms do not have any side effects and work against HIV / AIDS, but I get it. If it means the scaring the shit out of guys thinking they WILL get AIDS and die to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions then I would be touting condom use too as "safe sex".

Mojo Bandit
03-27-20, 01:14
Tourists trapped in Colombia by coronavirus hope for flights home:

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21C34L?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3 A%2 F%2 F www.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24's&ampshare=https%3 A%2 F%2 Fwww.reuters.com%2 Farticle%2 Fus-health-coronavirus-Colombia-tourists-idUSKBN21 C34 L.

Long f'ing URL.

Same story US News

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-03-25/tourists-trapped-in-colombia-by-coronavirus-hope-for-flights-home

Elvis 2008
03-27-20, 06:07
I've heard of latex allergies. What are the other side effects of condoms?That is the main one I was talking about, but when you mention allergies, the most extreme example is anaphylaxis. There have been lawsuits won on this and also there was one example in the literature of a nurse putting on latex gloves and dying.

The simplest issue is just dermatitis. Once you start mentioning this to people as a problem, you would be amazed at how often you hear about it. A lot of times men and woman have itchy bumps and they swear it is a STD but it is just from condoms. Also, the more often you use condoms, the more likely you will eventually form an allergy.

When you see what the latex allergy rate is versus how effective condoms really are, you will question the whole notion of condom use and "safe sex".

Woodman09
03-27-20, 06:50
The Trump pills are about $25, the Zpack is about $15. No real panic has set in and most things are available, Cops everywhere.

YippieKayay
03-27-20, 14:12
Tourists trapped in Colombia by coronavirus hope for flights home:


Same story US News

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-03-25/tourists-trapped-in-colombia-by-coronavirus-hope-for-flights-homeVery stupid move by the government. They should be putting them in hotels with meal vouchers. Letting them sleep in the airport is bad for health reasons (anyone who has the virus is spreading it now) and none of those tourists or anyone they know will want to go back to Colombia.

Lou32
03-27-20, 14:36
I'd guess that in exactly three months most of the citizens of countries around the world will be allowed back into Colombia. Except Americans.

America is exploding with the virus with no end in sight and with very poor crisis management, a focus on the stock market over public health and millions who will get bored soon with "social distancing" there may still be hundreds of thousands of cases even in June.

Is that a reasonable assumption?

JjBee62
03-27-20, 18:42
I'd guess that in exactly three months most of the citizens of countries around the world will be allowed back into Colombia. Except Americans.

America is exploding with the virus with no end in sight and with very poor crisis management, a focus on the stock market over public health and millions who will get bored soon with "social distancing" there may still be hundreds of thousands of cases even in June.

Is that a reasonable assumption?I don't know.

This is just my opinion, but I feel that relaxing all social distancing and pushing for a return to normal for Easter Sunday is a bad idea. We have not peaked yet and it's unlikely every carrier will be identified and isolated over the next 2 weeks.

If I'm correct, I would expect the number of new cases to begin to drop in 3 weeks, but then surge upwards the following week. That puts us back to day 1 again, except instead of 15 cases, we're starting at 500,000 cases. We would be lucky to peak by late June.

On the other hand, (still just my opinion), if we hold tight through April, possibly to mid May, we could have it under control and be back to normal early June.

Elvis 2008
03-27-20, 21:04
I'd guess that in exactly three months most of the citizens of countries around the world will be allowed back into Colombia. Except Americans.

America is exploding with the virus with no end in sight and with very poor crisis management, a focus on the stock market over public health and millions who will get bored soon with "social distancing" there may still be hundreds of thousands of cases even in June.

Is that a reasonable assumption?If you want to go with the four states with the highest number of cases, Lou, they are all run by Democratic governors. Is that what you mean by poor crisis management?

Or did you mean the Democrats in Louisiana, the mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana, who allowed Mardi Gras to go on as planned, and Louisiana had an explosion of cases?

So I think what is reasonable is that Colombia will let in Americans who live in states who voted for Trump and are led by Republican governors because those states have much fewer cases on average than other states.

And before you go off on one of those Republican knuckle dragger comments, I am the rarest of breeds these days. I actually vote for the best candidate which meant I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and Trump in 2016.

In fact, I will say that when someone as intelligent as yourself makes the comment that you are not going to get laid in Colombia and it is Trump's fault, the virus is the least of the problems the USA has. How did a fucking virus with no known treatment become THIS political?

Surfer500
03-27-20, 22:47
I don't know.

This is just my opinion, but I feel that relaxing all social distancing and pushing for a return to normal for Easter Sunday is a bad idea. We have not peaked yet and it's unlikely every carrier will be identified and isolated over the next 2 weeks.

If I'm correct, I would expect the number of new cases to begin to drop in 3 weeks, but then surge upwards the following week. That puts us back to day 1 again, except instead of 15 cases, we're starting at 500,000 cases. We would be lucky to peak by late June.

On the other hand, (still just my opinion), if we hold tight through April, possibly to mid May, we could have it under control and be back to normal early June.I am of the opinion that we will be lucky to be get back into Colombia by June 2021 and I hope I am dead wrong on this.

My prediction is that several Countries will not allow visitors into to their Countries until there is a proven vaccine for the virus, no different than the Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate required by several Countries now.

Hopefully I am wrong on this, and besides a vaccine a miracle cure would be great as well.

I am planning on the long haul for the time being.

JjBee62
03-27-20, 22:49
If you want to go with the four states with the highest number of cases, Lou, they are all run by Democratic governors. Is that what you mean by poor crisis management?

Or did you mean the Democrats in Louisiana, the mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana, who allowed Mardi Gras to go on as planned, and Louisiana had an explosion of cases?

So I think what is reasonable is that Colombia will let in Americans who live in states who voted for Trump and are led by Republican governors because those states have much fewer cases on average than other states.

And before you go off on one of those Republican knuckle dragger comments, I am the rarest of breeds these days. I actually vote for the best candidate which meant I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and Trump in 2016.

In fact, I will say that when someone as intelligent as yourself makes the comment that you are not going to get laid in Colombia and it is Trump's fault, the virus is the least of the problems the USA has. How did a fucking virus with no known treatment become THIS political?Apologies to Balboa.

That's a rather simplified view of the situation.

Washington, New York, California and Louisiana?

On January 31 the DHS authorized 8 airports to receive flights from China. Two in California, 1 in Washington and 1 in New York. Testing was not being done, no quarantine rules were in place and the official US government stance was we had nothing to worry about.

How many asymptomatic people made it through the screening? With a transmission rate of 2.5, it only takes a few. It seems inevitable those areas would be hit first, regardless of politics.

Louisiana, you mentioned Mardi Gras. February 25,2020. Travelers from all over converge on New Orleans, causing the French Quarter to briefly become one of the most densely populated places on earth.

Also on that date, these words from President Trump:

Feb. 25: "You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country. We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are. Getting better. They're all getting better. . As far as what we're doing with the new virus, I think that we're doing a great job."

Was the Democratic governor of Louisiana wrong in assuming there was no serious problem, or was President Trump wrong for his statement?

It doesn't do is any good to point fingers, but if we're going to do it, let's point them everywhere, rather than just picking our favorite target.

How are those states handling things now? Louisiana has cracked down. They appear to realize they screwed up bad. Next door, Mississippi is pretending there's nothing to worry about.

Over the next 2 weeks we'll have a better idea how every state is doing. I expect few bright spots, except for states with very low population densities.

I highly doubt Colombia is going to only allow passengers from certain states. They'll either open up to a country, or not.

Surfer500
03-27-20, 22:52
If you want to go with the four states with the highest number of cases, Lou, they are all run by Democratic governors. Is that what you mean by poor crisis management?

Or did you mean the Democrats in Louisiana, the mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana, who allowed Mardi Gras to go on as planned, and Louisiana had an explosion of cases?

So I think what is reasonable is that Colombia will let in Americans who live in states who voted for Trump and are led by Republican governors because those states have much fewer cases on average than other states.

And before you go off on one of those Republican knuckle dragger comments, I am the rarest of breeds these days. I actually vote for the best candidate which meant I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and Trump in 2016.

In fact, I will say that when someone as intelligent as yourself makes the comment that you are not going to get laid in Colombia and it is Trump's fault, the virus is the least of the problems the USA has. How did a fucking virus with no known treatment become THIS political?Unfortunately this issue is dividing Republicans and Democrats even further apart at this time. I have gotten into shouting matches with a few good friends over this, and know others ready to dissolve friendships over this.

Lets hope a vaccine and miracle cure is developed rapidly so we can get back to Medellin and banging all those beautiful women.

Mojo Bandit
03-27-20, 23:08
I don't know.

This is just my opinion, but I feel that relaxing all social distancing and pushing for a return to normal for Easter Sunday is a bad idea. We have not peaked yet and it's unlikely every carrier will be identified and isolated over the next 2 weeks.

If I'm correct, I would expect the number of new cases to begin to drop in 3 weeks, but then surge upwards the following week. That puts us back to day 1 again, except instead of 15 cases, we're starting at 500,000 cases. We would be lucky to peak by late June.

On the other hand, (still just my opinion), if we hold tight through April, possibly to mid May, we could have it under control and be back to normal early June.We know your point is true from history:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/24/21188121/coronavirus-covid-19-social-distancing-1918-spanish-flu

Lou32
03-28-20, 01:18
If you want to go with the four states with the highest number of cases, Lou, they are all run by Democratic governors. Is that what you mean by poor crisis management?

Or did you mean the Democrats in Louisiana, the mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana, who allowed Mardi Gras to go on as planned, and Louisiana had an explosion of cases?

So I think what is reasonable is that Colombia will let in Americans who live in states who voted for Trump and are led by Republican governors because those states have much fewer cases on average than other states.

And before you go off on one of those Republican knuckle dragger comments, I am the rarest of breeds these days. I actually vote for the best candidate which meant I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and Trump in 2016.

In fact, I will say that when someone as intelligent as yourself makes the comment that you are not going to get laid in Colombia and it is Trump's fault, the virus is the least of the problems the USA has. How did a fucking virus with no known treatment become THIS political?Seriously, dude?

Balboa
03-28-20, 01:44
Lets hope a vaccine and miracle cure is developed rapidly so we can get back to Medellin and banging all those beautiful women.Man I hope so!

Just watched a special on "cures and vaccines" for this corona beast.

The doc said 2-3 weeks for good data on the Hydroxychlorquine, Zpak deal as well as Plasma use from those who've recovered.

A vaccine in hopefully 9-10 months from now, however, not to wait for the trials to end / drug approval to start production.

That would take too long.

Said there are several vaccines being tested so several shots on goal to work against this virus.

The Cane
03-28-20, 01:52
Seriously, dude?What I said. Unbelievably ignorant.

Elvis 2008
03-28-20, 06:02
That's a rather simplified view of the situation. Washington, New York, California and Louisiana?I think if you add New Jersey to the list and you are at 5, but to me, the simplest thing to do is tune into mainstream media and say it is all Trump's problem.

Trump's failures are well documented: downplaying the crisis, putting the stock market above people. I have heard all of that ad nauseam.

But you don't hear about the Democrats screwups. For that, you can see those here and here:

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1243291084568100865?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1243291084568100865&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fhealth%2Fnew-orleans-mayor-blames-trump-going-ahead-mardis-gras-big-easy-new-southern-epicenter

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1243413067234308096

And then you have this totally disgusting tweet from Hiliary Clinton:

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1243597001754894337


It doesn't do is any good to point fingers, but if we're going to do it, let's point them everywhere, rather than just picking our favorite target.I must have missed the part where you pointed a finger at a Democrat. Okay, the CDC is under Trump. He has to own the CDC screwed up the testing. I get that. How about the NYC public health official who said everything was fine, and the city was prepared? Or the mayor of NYC telling everyone to keep eating out the same day the NBA quit its season? Or the mayor of NO not listening to the CDC? Or having a fucking parade in Chinatown in NYC in Feb? Or saying blocking flights from China was racist?


How are those states handling things now? Louisiana has cracked down. They appear to realize they screwed up bad. Next door, Mississippi is pretending there's nothing to worry about.2746 total cases in Louisiana and 579 in Mississippi?


With a transmission rate of 2.5, it only takes a few.Ooooh boy! You buy that? There were only 8 deaths in Beijing and 5 in Shanghai. That is a very imperfect number based on a lousy data set. There were 3300 dead in China, the number of active cases is way down there, and "experts" are predicting worst case scenario a million dead in the USA and best case 200,000. It is at that point the "experts" should be tuned out. Those "experts" seem to be like Hiliary Clinton cheering on larger number of cases and the dead.

Why didn't the number of cases in China explode? Whenever something good happens, man always takes the credit or the blame. They quarantined like we couldn't. Sure, it could have been that. Or the weather changed. Or pollution went way down ETC. Establishing cause and effect with a new virus is a guess at best.


Over the next 2 weeks we'll have a better idea how every state is doing. I expect few bright spots, except for states with very low population densities.You don't have this information, but the peak is at five days after exposure, so we should start seeing some better news very quickly.


I highly doubt Colombia is going to only allow passengers from certain states. They'll either open up to a country, or not.Oh yeah, my comment was in jest. I heard from one of my Colombian friends that Colombia somehow screwed up the count. Sigh. American has no flights scheduled until late April. I hope things are over by then, but my gut is we are looking at May.

The point of my post was to show how bad Trump derangement syndrome is. Here is this guy Lou saying that he is not going to get laid in Colombia because of Trump, and the thing is that if you watch certain news channels, it is completely normal to blame Trump for EVERYTHING.

So you have the Republican POV where the virus is no big deal. The Democratic POV where Trump screwed up and millions are going to die, and these topics not what to do to not get sick are squeezed out. I am tired of the blame game getting in the way of real news!

Elvis 2008
03-28-20, 08:42
Unfortunately this issue is dividing Republicans and Democrats even further apart at this time. I have gotten into shouting matches with a few good friends over this, and know others ready to dissolve friendships over this.Like I said, this blame game is getting in the way of real information.


Lets hope a vaccine and miracle cure is developed rapidly so we can get back to Medellin and banging all those beautiful women.The virus burned itself out in China, and it will do likewise in the USA and in Colombia. Doctors are getting better at treating the symptoms, another story not being told. When I talk about real information, I am talking about staying away from ibuprofen, selenium, and elderberry when sick. That is not out there nearly enough. Steroids were tried and found to hurt not help. Ventilator settings are now known. Nurses learn to suction better. Patients do better when not overloaded with too much fluid.

This is one doctor stated: Clinical course is predictable.

2-11 days after exposure (day 5 on average) flu like symptoms start.

On Day 10, Cytokine storm leading to acute ARDS and multiorgan failure. You can literally watch it happen in a matter of hours.

This is predominantly due to one cytokine called IL-6. Thing is, and this is not what is in any mathematical models, is that IL-6 can be lowered with a number of different methods. So when you have a patient failing, anything can and is being tried. Slowly, treatments that are not going to go through the FDA protocols will be shared once doctors hit on the right treatment.

People like to think that what all doctors do is follow these rigid scientific protocols. What really happens is a lot more trial and error than people realize.

That is the problem with all the gloom and doom Malthusian models. They just assume people are not going to get better in solving a problem, and they always do.

In this case, I would actually bet on nature solving the problem more quickly than man can. If enough people get exposed to the virus and form immunity, then a vaccine will not be needed.

Mojo Bandit
03-28-20, 11:38
France Spain Italy.

Lou32
03-28-20, 13:30
What I said. Unbelievably ignorant.I agree, your comment was ignorant. Why did you inject silly American politics into this discussion?

The Cane
03-28-20, 13:46
I agree, your comment was ignorant. Why did you inject silly American politics into this discussion?Excuse me, but I was attempting to agree with you. This is not a time for partisan politics, and I found his post to be unbelievably ignorant. Some people. No matter what.

The Cane
03-28-20, 14:58
Ignorant partisanship in these times? See ya and wouldn't want to be ya: https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/03/27/fox-business-host-out-after-coronavirus-comments/23963652/.

Knowledge
03-28-20, 15:40
Guys,

This is an unprecedented situation that transcends politics. I understand that for some nothing transcends politics. The world will be able to resolve this situation faster and with less long term damage if we try to find common ground.

Surfer500
03-28-20, 16:41
In this case, I would actually bet on nature solving the problem more quickly than man can. If enough people get exposed to the virus and form immunity, then a vaccine will not be needed.I posted earlier regarding my thoughts regarding North Korea. I suspect they are taking no draconian measures if any to handle those infected and just letting nature take it's course and at the end of the day a little smaller population, less mouths to feed, and none of the financial upending taking place all over the world. Perhaps this approach in retrospect may of been the way the world should of approached this.

Regardless, I see a vaccine needed which I predict will become a requirement for entry into Countries, no different than the Yellow Fever Certificate required by some Countries for entry.

Lou32
03-28-20, 19:14
I agree, your comment was ignorant. Why did you inject silly American politics into this discussion?I withdraw this post.

Nounce
03-28-20, 19:30
We know your point is true from history:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/24/21188121/coronavirus-covid-19-social-distancing-1918-spanish-fluI think there is another problem in that the doctors maybe giving wrong advice on a virus they know very little about. They don't really know how the virus spread but they give advice which maybe insufficient on preventing it.

YippieKayay
03-28-20, 19:48
I think there is another problem in that the doctors maybe giving wrong advice on a virus they know very little about. They don't really know how the virus spread but they give advice which maybe insufficient on preventing it.Why would they not know how it spreads? It's been studied since late December. They already have experience with the first SARS virus. With all the good information on the Internet why do people seem to insist on absorbing conspiracy theories and kookery?

Nounce
03-28-20, 19:56
Why would they not know how it spreads? It's been studied since late December. They already have experience with the first SARS virus. With all the good information on the Internet why do people seem to insist on absorbing conspiracy theories and kookery?I just think we don't have enough awareness. What I should have said is the doctors and scientists know some possible ways it can spread, but they may not know all the methods, including variables like distance, and length of time, that it can spread. If they give advice based on what they know, which is a reasonable thing to do, the advice maybe insufficient because of what they don't know.

By the same token, I think it is a mistake to think this is similar to the first SARS virus and treat it the same way

Balboa
03-28-20, 21:52
Seriously, dude?Seriously dude! Lol 😅

Mojo Bandit
03-28-20, 22:03
I just think we don't have enough awareness. What I should have said is the doctors and scientists know some possible ways it can spread, but they may not know all the methods, including variables like distance, and length of time, that it can spread. If they give advice based on what they know, which is a reasonable thing to do, the advice maybe insufficient because of what they don't know.

By the same token, I think it is a mistake to think this is similar to the first SARS virus and treat it the same wayI understand what you are saying, there has been rapid spreading of this virus that cannot be explained by "droplet" contamination because many of the people who contract the disease are not around people who are showing symptoms.

YippieKayay
03-28-20, 22:24
I understand what you are saying, there has been rapid spreading of this virus that cannot be explained by "droplet" contamination because many of the people who contract the disease are not around people who are showing symptoms.People still sweat, cough and sneeze without having cold or flu like symptoms.

Judd
03-29-20, 00:09
We're going to see most all the densely populated cities be hit with this virus over the next couple of months, then move on to rural cities. The only way we slow it down is a nationwide lock down coupled with mass testing. Otherwise, it's just going to move from one community to the next and continue to disrupt our lives til there's a vaccine. We lost a lot of time down playing the severity of this virus. Like you said, there will be no reason to risk exposing a countries population to this virus by allowing Americans to enter until you can document you don't have it.


I am of the opinion that we will be lucky to be get back into Colombia by June 2021 and I hope I am dead wrong on this.

My prediction is that several Countries will not allow visitors into to their Countries until there is a proven vaccine for the virus, no different than the Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate required by several Countries now.

Hopefully I am wrong on this, and besides a vaccine a miracle cure would be great as well.

I am planning on the long haul for the time being.

LeyenLouvain
03-29-20, 00:13
People still sweat, cough and sneeze without having cold or flu like symptoms.Apparently speaking spreads droplets as well.

Zeos1
03-29-20, 00:33
Apparently speaking spreads droplets as well.They know it survives on surfaces. Especially smooth surfaces like stainless steel, ceramics, etc. For up to 3 days. And through droplets. Hence the 2 meter distance thing. They know the structure of the virus. They know the way it hooks onto "host" cells. They know lots about it. And it can be stopped by not letting it get on your nose, mouth, or eyes (mucous membranes).

What they are not sure of yet is how weather might affect it. There is evidence that warmer and or more humid conditions do not favor it. May reduce the spread on surfaces for example. But if someone is infected and you get it directly (sneeze, cough, touching) then climate probably won't do anything to slow it.

This all has been determined for many months.

The controversy over how deadly it is is a bit misleading. If we assume there are many undiagnosed cases out there. And that seems to be true most places, then the fatality for it is a lower percentage. But there are a corresponding higher number of people. So. 5% of 100,000 is 500. Or 5% of 10,000 is 500. Either way 500 dead. But if the real number is 100,000 or 10,000 what can and should be done might be a bit different. Once we get to 50 to 70 percent of the total population infected then it starts to go away because the virus doesn't find many victims to keep infecting. But saying that mean we still have a long long way to go. New York city and surrounding greater New York have perhaps 20 million people. At. 8% mortality assuming even 50% get infected that will be 160,000 deaths. Health care systems can't handle all the critical cases that go with that number. So many that could normally be saved will die. That's because it will happen all at once basically. And these are the sorts of numbers they are expecting.

We will be spared that in Canada because we are being fanatical about distancing, quarantines, etc.

Big Boss Man
03-29-20, 00:36
We're going to see most all the densely populated cities be hit with this virus over the next couple of months, then move on to rural cities. The only way we slow it down is a nationwide lock down coupled with mass testing. Otherwise, it's just going to move from one community to the next and continue to disrupt our lives til there's a vaccine. We lost a lot of time down playing the severity of this virus. Like you said, there will be no reason to risk exposing a countries population to this virus by allowing Americans to enter until you can document you don't have it.I read this morning that several small ski resort towns in the USA have been hit fairly hard on a per capita basis. It appears that places that have higher than average transient populations and greater wealth are the most at risk.

Elvis 2008
03-29-20, 03:41
Once we get to 50 to 70 percent of the total population infected then it starts to go away because the virus doesn't find many victims to keep infecting.
I thought that too, but that is not what has happened. Look at the Johns Hopkins map: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html.

You look at the misleading red and you would think everyone in America has the virus but that is not the case.

The more interesting and relevant data is in the bottom right corner. Click on new cases and you will see graphs in yellow. Look at the shapes on the graph of new cases, and you can see what happened in places that have recovered: South Korea, China, Thailand, Taiwan.

In all those countries, you seek peak cases and then a downward sloping of new cases. You are actually seeing the downward sloping already in Colombia and Peru and peaking in Brazil, Panama, and Ecuador. The exponential growth phase is not happening anymore in South America. Even in the USA, the exponential growth is not happening if you look at the graphs.

It looks like the virus is going to burn itself out in May or April. Whether it comes back this fall though is up in the air.

Mojo Bandit
03-29-20, 05:04
I post these numbers with a caveat; as most people know there are nowhere near enough people getting tested to know actual numbers.

This article title says it all "Coronavirus Is Hiding in Plain Sight" In it is this statement: "If we have 3,500 confirmed cases in the USA, you might be looking at 35,000 in reality," said Jeffrey Shaman, an epidemiologist at Columbia University and the senior author of the new report, which was posted by the journal Science. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/health/coronavirus-statistics-undetected.html.

Because I have a horrible memory I started taking screen shots of the John Hopkins University to compare days, today I saw the most relevant thing to how the numbers are growing. The screen shot I took on five days ago on 3/23 shows just under 44,000 cases. I took another screen shot in 3/26 that showed This morning I took a screen shot that showed over 62,000 around an 18,000 increase in about 43 hours. Flash forward 3/28 I took a screen shot at 5 am and it said 104,837 - I took another on 3/28 at 9:30 pm and it said 122,666 that is an almost 18,000 increase in the span of 16 hours.

Nounce
03-29-20, 07:11
I post these numbers with a caveat; as most people know there are nowhere near enough people getting tested to know actual numbers.

This article title says it all "Coronavirus Is Hiding in Plain Sight" In it is this statement: "If we have 3,500 confirmed cases in the USA, you might be looking at 35,000 in reality," said Jeffrey Shaman, an epidemiologist at Columbia University and the senior author of the new report, which was posted by the journal Science. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/health/coronavirus-statistics-undetected.html.
I received a message the other day that someone went to the same school as me died from the virus. He and his wife went to a class reunion last month with classmates from different states and different counties. Some of them went to Europe after the reunion. Late last month he went to see his doctor because of a fever. The doctor told him it was a flu. He went on his daily life as usual, went to church and did all the things he normally do. He was told a few days later to get a test by his classmate oversea who was tested positive for the coronavirus. He and his wife both tested positive and now he is dead.

CDC has an important job to do and they failed this time. If they had delivered test kits that worked or try to get it from elsewhere after the failure quickly , I think it would have given us a few weeks head start.

JjBee62
03-29-20, 08:23
I understand what you are saying, there has been rapid spreading of this virus that cannot be explained by "droplet" contamination because many of the people who contract the disease are not around people who are showing symptoms.Can't remember where I saw it, but saw some report that some country was finding half of the people testing positive were asymptomatic.

JjBee62
03-29-20, 08:29
They know it survives on surfaces. Especially smooth surfaces like stainless steel, ceramics, etc. For up to 3 days. And through droplets. Hence the 2 meter distance thing. They know the structure of the virus. They know the way it hooks onto "host" cells. They know lots about it. And it can be stopped by not letting it get on your nose, mouth, or eyes (mucous membranes).

What they are not sure of yet is how weather might affect it. There is evidence that warmer and or more humid conditions do not favor it. May reduce the spread on surfaces for example. But if someone is infected and you get it directly (sneeze, cough, touching) then climate probably won't do anything to slow it.

This all has been determined for many months.

The controversy over how deadly it is is a bit misleading. If we assume there are many undiagnosed cases out there. And that seems to be true most places, then the fatality for it is a lower percentage. But there are a corresponding higher number of people. So. 5% of 100,000 is 500. Or 5% of 10,000 is 500. Either way 500 dead. But if the real number is 100,000 or 10,000 what can and should be done might be a bit different. Once we get to 50 to 70 percent of the total population infected then it starts to go away because the virus doesn't find many victims to keep infecting. But saying that mean we still have a long long way to go. New York city and surrounding greater New York have perhaps 20 million people.The other side of the controversy over mortality rate, are deaths which are not attributed to the virus. It's not a complete offset, but it shows the inaccuracy isn't entirely one-sided.

Yep. Canada is being fanatical about it. Even Tim Hortons is empty.

Lou32
03-29-20, 16:09
I understand what you are saying, there has been rapid spreading of this virus that cannot be explained by "droplet" contamination because many of the people who contract the disease are not around people who are showing symptoms.Research suggests it lives for up to 72 hours on hard, shiny surfaces. Also, the scientists have said that "droplets" include microscopic fluids we exhale just from talking that can carry in the air for up to nearly 8 meters.

ChuchoLoco
03-29-20, 16:18
I received a message the other day that someone went to the same school as me died from the virus. He and his wife went to a class reunion last month with classmates from different states and different counties. Some of them went to Europe after the reunion. Late last month he went to see his doctor because of a fever. The doctor told him it was a flu. He went on his daily life as usual, went to church and did all the things he normally do. He was told a few days later to get a test by his classmate oversea who was tested positive for the coronavirus. He and his wife both tested positive and now he is dead.

CDC has an important job to do and they failed this time. If they had delivered test kits that worked or try to get it from elsewhere after the failure quickly , I think it would have given us a few weeks head start.Sorry about your classmate. He was an innocent victim. Can you imagine how many people he may have infected and how many more those people may have infected unknowingly? That's how this thing travels.

Plenty of blame to go around but rather than everyone blaming someone else, they should spend more time containing and solving the virus. This is a medical problem that needs to be solved by the medical and scientific experts and not half assed phony politicians. Problem here is that the politicos control everything and make everything political.

Surfer500
03-29-20, 16:27
CDC has an important job to do and they failed this time. If they had delivered test kits that worked or try to get it from elsewhere after the failure quickly , I think it would have given us a few weeks head start.Unfortunately you cannot solely blame the CDC for this, several other "parties" leading up to this debacle where involved and nobody could of ever predicted a virus like this one, so at this point it's a total waste of time to dwell on what happened and the serious mis-steps taken.

Some time in the future the "historians" will be better be able to articulate what happened, and perhaps how it could of been handled differently. What is obvious though is that the Asian and Communist Countries have done a much better job in handling the virus based on past experience and authoritarian rule. Returning to Colombia is on my mind every waking day, and I miss all my El Centro "wives" and I am afraid many of us will not be getting back there anytime soon, at least until there is a proven vaccine and hopefully a cure is developed.

Knowledge
03-29-20, 16:40
How would test kits stop the spread of the virus? Whatever the test result, experts are telling people to stay away from each other and wash your hands. I guess some people need to see a positive result to comply with the expert advice?

A vaccine would make a much more significant impact I think all would agree.


I received a message the other day that someone went to the same school as me died from the virus. He and his wife went to a class reunion last month with classmates from different states and different counties. Some of them went to Europe after the reunion. Late last month he went to see his doctor because of a fever. The doctor told him it was a flu. He went on his daily life as usual, went to church and did all the things he normally do. He was told a few days later to get a test by his classmate oversea who was tested positive for the coronavirus. He and his wife both tested positive and now he is dead.

CDC has an important job to do and they failed this time. If they had delivered test kits that worked or try to get it from elsewhere after the failure quickly , I think it would have given us a few weeks head start.

Knowledge
03-29-20, 16:48
I remember reading a newspaper article that focused on an Austrian ski resort as a possible source of several Coronavirus outbreaks around Europe. The story mentioned the wealth and movement factors you cited.


I read this morning that several small ski resort towns in the USA have been hit fairly hard on a per capita basis. It appears that places that have higher than average transient populations and greater wealth are the most at risk.

Nounce
03-29-20, 21:29
Unfortunately you cannot solely blame the CDC for this, several other "parties" leading up to this debacle where involved and nobody could of ever predicted a virus like this one, so at this point it's a total waste of time to dwell on what happened and the serious mis-steps taken.

Some time in the future the "historians" will be better be able to articulate what happened, and perhaps how it could of been handled differently. What is obvious though is that the Asian and Communist Countries have done a much better job in handling the virus based on past experience and authoritarian rule. Returning to Colombia is on my mind every waking day, and I miss all my El Centro "wives" and I am afraid many of us will not be getting back there anytime soon, at least until there is a proven vaccine and hopefully a cure is developed.I think one can not say the test kit is bad because of party affiliation. I don't want to make my post political so I don't want to talk about the other reasons you mentioned.

I read that South Korea government gathers their private companies together on a mission to develop their test kit. It took only a very short time. I remember the length of time but I don't want to put it here as I don't have the link to it

Nounce
03-29-20, 21:35
How would test kits stop the spread of the virus? Whatever the test result, experts are telling people to stay away from each other and wash your hands. I guess some people need to see a positive result to comply with the expert advice?
People would know the seriousness if tests were available. It will be more difficult for people to downplay the issue. It was mentioned in someon's post. That is the reason I wrote about it. If you have read my post, the patients received news from another person oversea. By this time, he already been to church, restaurants, supermarkets.

Also these

https://mynorthwest.com/1758762/coronavirus-washington-seattle-flu-study/?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html

Surfer500
03-29-20, 21:46
I think one can not say the test kit is bad because of party affiliation. I don't want to make my post political so I don't want to talk about the other reasons you mentioned.

I read that South Korea government gathers their private companies together on a mission to develop their test kit. It took only a very short time. I remember the length of time but I don't want to put it here as I don't have the link to itThe Asian Countries have their shit together, a perfect example is Taiwan, and I had good time with the Chinese women there as well!

Nounce
03-29-20, 22:19
I remember reading a newspaper article that focused on an Austrian ski resort as a possible source of several Coronavirus outbreaks around Europe. The story mentioned the wealth and movement factors you cited.The news said it was a British citizen who was infected during a conference in Singapore. He later went to Austria to ski.

Zeos1
03-29-20, 23:55
The news said it was a British citizen who was infected during a conference in Singapore. He later went to Austria to ski.There are many vectors. One of the now famous ones was in South Korea. An infected person was at a large mega-church conference and infected many who in turn infected many. And in Canada a dental conference and a doctors hockey tournament have infected many.

I think the testing failure was a big thing (US), but the far bigger failure is the failure to get people to isolate. Assume everyone may have it so isolate. And those that have it either recover or die. As long as they are not infecting anyone else the virus dies. It's a very simple concept. Very devastating economically but the only way to stop this thing. And that's basically what worked in China. And relentless contact tracing and testing has helped some countries. But not once it has really gotten away. And it has gotten away in the USA. No amount of testing will change anything now. Not until you get people to stop spreading it.

Testing still is important for health care workers. Don't get me wrong. You need to know that they are not spreading it. And when they have it they need to go home. But for the general population right now testing is irrelevant. In the future, yes. Some sort of testing may be needed to know who has had it and who hasn't. But that is a different test anyway.

Nounce
03-30-20, 21:46
It won't change anything if every single American were tested. In fact, it would increase infections because even home testing kits that are mailed can spread the virus. It's all about isolation.If you could test everyone, wouldn't it be better to only isolate those tested positive?

Zeos1
03-30-20, 22:05
If you could test everyone, wouldn't it be better to only isolate those tested positive?If you could test everyone at the same time. Perhaps. But that cannot be done. So with people circulating there are people spreading it.

I do think that, if it were possible, regular testing of all of the people that provide essential services would be a good thing. But again, that seems to be a ways off.

And essential services are a lot of people. Truckers, health care workers, sanitation, first responders, grocery store workers and all the supply chain for all of the above.

And, as time goes on, if seralogical studies prove it to be the case, all of those who have immunity can go out and about to help re-start the economy.

YippieKayay
03-31-20, 00:02
If you could test everyone, wouldn't it be better to only isolate those tested positive?It's the other way around. If people test positive for the antibodies they are immune and can go out. As long as they remain asymptomatic they are fine.

It's people who can't fight the virus that need to be isolated.

ChuchoLoco
03-31-20, 00:23
It's the other way around. If people test positive for the antibodies they are immune and can go out. As long as they remain asymptomatic they are fine.

It's people who can't fight the virus that need to be isolated.Maybe people who have it should be isolated and only a test will tell. Asymptomatic people can spread it too so not a good idea to let them go out and keep spreading it unless it's still a hoax, a world wide hoax now.

So how do you know someone can't fight it? It's a small percentage who can't fight it. Everyone who tests positive must be isolated and treated if deemed necessary by a real doctor. Isolation can be at home or a facility depending.

I just saw what great hands we are all in. The Pillow Guy is on the team now! Where's Kanye and McMahon?

The Cane
03-31-20, 00:47
It's the other way around. If people test positive for the antibodies they are immune and can go out. As long as they remain asymptomatic they are fine.

It's people who can't fight the virus that need to be isolated.Besides, it's important to know who has the antibodies since their "convalescence serum" can be used to help sick people fend off the virus.

Judd
03-31-20, 02:29
I would recommend listening to interviews with former FDA Commisioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He seems to be providing the most pertinent information as to why we need to continue testing, the impact the virus will have on our health care system, and the current trajectory of it. Another Dr. That came up on my YouTube feed was Dr. Duc C Vuong. He did a video explaining how this virus ends up killing a person when the infection becomes serious. In a subsequent video, he explained how our death rate will, unfortunately, increase even as the # of infections increase. Conventional wisdom out there is the death rate will go down since we're testing at a much higher rate than a couple of weeks ago.

Stay Safe!

Mojo Bandit
04-01-20, 01:21
This drug has been mentioned in this thread so much I thought this announcement should be posted here.

FDA Approves Anti-Malarial Drugs Chloroquine And Hydroxychloroquine For Emergency Coronavirus Treatment.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/03/30/fda-approves-anti-malarial-drugs-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-for-emergency-coronavirus-treatment/#312 ecf135 e5 d.

Zeos1
04-01-20, 03:32
I would recommend listening to interviews with former FDA Commisioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He seems to be providing the most pertinent information as to why we need to continue testing, the impact the virus will have on our health care system, and the current trajectory of it. Another Dr. That came up on my YouTube feed was Dr. Duc C Vuong. He did a video explaining how this virus ends up killing a person when the infection becomes serious. In a subsequent video, he explained how our death rate will, unfortunately, increase even as the # of infections increase. Conventional wisdom out there is the death rate will go down since we're testing at a much higher rate than a couple of weeks ago.

Stay Safe!The death rate goes up because it takes 2 or 3 weeks from getting it to finally dying. For some. For the older people it can be quicker. But the death rate will spike a lot because we know there are a lot of people that have just come down with the virus. So if there's a million people that have the virus. Active cases. About 10,000 will eventually die. So if your testing picks up and you identify more, then at some point it will look like 1% or. 8%. But there is a 2 to 3 week lag.
Unfortunately the deaths are just getting going. Same sort of curve. Just 2 to 3 weeks behind the infection curve.

YippieKayay
04-01-20, 06:06
This drug has been mentioned in this thread so much I thought this announcement should be posted here.

FDA Approves Anti-Malarial Drugs Chloroquine And Hydroxychloroquine For Emergency Coronavirus Treatment.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/03/30/fda-approves-anti-malarial-drugs-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-for-emergency-coronavirus-treatment/#312 ecf135 e5 d.It's not a cure. There hasn't been any evidence to show this. There's some data but they need to do proper trials with a control group.

Judd
04-01-20, 07:57
Correct. Dr. Vuong explained the delays in deaths is linked to Ventilator usage. He said around 20% of those infected will need hospital care. Things go South when a patient develops pneumonia from this infection. Their body starts to "Tire Out" from Breathing difficulty. At that point, they will need to be put on a ventilator for around 10-20 days. Once on a breathing apparatus, the survival rate is not good. He says it's around 20% to 25%.

If you are working in the hospitals right now, I want to thank you for being selfless, and helping to save lives!


The death rate goes up because it takes 2 or 3 weeks from getting it to finally dying. For some. For the older people it can be quicker. But the death rate will spike a lot because we know there are a lot of people that have just come down with the virus. So if there's a million people that have the virus. Active cases. About 10,000 will eventually die. So if your testing picks up and you identify more, then at some point it will look like 1% or. 8%. But there is a 2 to 3 week lag.
Unfortunately the deaths are just getting going. Same sort of curve. Just 2 to 3 weeks behind the infection curve.

Mojo Bandit
04-01-20, 08:49
It's not a cure. There hasn't been any evidence to show this. There's some data but they need to do proper trials with a control group.I agree with you I just wanted to post it the FDA had approved it for this use.

"New York moved to begin trials Tuesday, procuring 70,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine and 750,000 doses of chloroquine, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said. In addition, Bayer, the drug maker, has donated 3 million doses of Resochin, its brand name for chloroquine, to the federal government. ".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/health/chloroquine-hydroxycholoroquine-drugs-explained/index.html

Nounce
04-01-20, 08:51
It's not a cure. There hasn't been any evidence to show this. There's some data but they need to do proper trials with a control group.
There is no proof but no one has proved it is not effective either.

I think it is a French doctor who has a new study out with about 80 patients. He said a doctor's job is to save lives or something alone that line so he can not do a control group. Italy health insurance now will pay for this medicine.

LeyenLouvain
04-01-20, 11:46
Cartagena's first case was apparently from a cruise ship passenger. Very kind of Colombia to accept bringing in a foreigner with the virus.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8174309/British-coronavirus-survivor-85-receives-emotional-send-medics-Columbian-hospital.html

Elvis 2008
04-01-20, 14:03
The death rate goes up because it takes 2 or 3 weeks from getting it to finally dying. For some. For the older people it can be quicker. But the death rate will spike a lot because we know there are a lot of people that have just come down with the virus.I know what you mean, but you are using the term death rate and death percentage like they are interchangeable. The percentage death rate will go down with more testing as asymptomatic or barely symptomatic people will be tested. The number of dead has nowhere to go but up.


So if there's a million people that have the virus. Active cases. About 10,000 will eventually die. So if your testing picks up and you identify more, then at some point it will look like 1% or. 8%.I agree that it does seem about a 1% death rate. The thing is how do you get to a million? We are at 200,000 now. We are not seeing the exponential rate pf growth like there was. The last five days have been at 20,000 new cases or so. That would be 40 more days at 20,000 new cases a day or this just being a lull before the explosion.

If you have a 1% death rate, you have to get to 2. 4 million before Covid is worse than this year's flu and you have to get to 8 million to get to the flu in 2017. To get that, we would need a pattern not seen in China, Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore or South Korea. Even Italy has gone from its plateau to a downward trend. There is no pattern in any country where I have seen that there is a plateau and then a rapid rise upwards.

Zeos1
04-01-20, 14:55
I know what you mean, but you are using the term death rate and death percentage like they are interchangeable. The percentage death rate will go down with more testing as asymptomatic or barely symptomatic people will be tested. The number of dead has nowhere to go but up.

I agree that it does seem about a 1% death rate. The thing is how do you get to a million? We are at 200,000 now. We are not seeing the exponential rate pf growth like there was. The last five days have been at 20,000 new cases or so. That would be 40 more days at 20,000 new cases a day or this just being a lull before the explosion.

If you have a 1% death rate, you have to get to 2. 4 million before Covid is worse than this year's flu and you have to get to 8 million to get to the flu in 2017. To get that, we would need a pattern not seen in China, Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore or South Korea. Even Italy has gone from its plateau to a downward trend. There is no pattern in any country where I have seen that there is a plateau and then a rapid rise upwards.The flu numbers I heard were 50,000 worldwide per year. On average. But there are different numbers floating around. The thing with flu though is that it is spread out through the whole year. It never totally goes away and just circulates around the world. So you would rarely have a big impact in a particular location at a particular time. This one is hitting all at once.

As for the numbers. Yes, hopefully if the number stays at around 20,000 new cases per day in US, and levels off in other places, it will not get to the millions of cases quickly. But last week the numbers of new cases per day were growing exponentially as well. Perhaps with testing, perhaps the spread, perhaps both. And hopefully that has changed.

I know that in many places though, including Canada, the numbers of cases were not just those that had been tested, but also those who were presumed to have it based on symptoms. We also had a higher percentage of testing than the US early on, and still, hence changes in number being tested are probably not influencing our numbers a lot.

TurdyCurdyOne
04-01-20, 16:48
I was actually talking about two failures of the Trump adminstration, one of the things Trump fixed and the other I hope he does. Do you remember when Obama called a police office stupid for arresting a Harvard professor? He, the professor, and the police officer had a beer at the White House. I thought the dumbest thing I ever heard was a Republican making fun of Obama's choice of beer, Bud Light. I was like is this what we have come to? Really?

But that was nothing, Trump derangement syndrome is at a whole other level. When you talk to people with TDS like you two, anything less than Trump is worse than Hitler and YOU get criticized.

And this is why Trump keeps beating Democrats again and again because when you make a guy who is not that bad out to be soooo evil if he is not that evil, you look like fools. Trump calls Joe Biden Sleepy Joe, and Biden obliges him by taking a nap during a crisis that has killed more people than 9-11. THIS is the alternative? So Trump's approval ratings hit record highs even when he and his administration have made so many errors.

The irony about this virus and what the Democrats have done is that they have portrayed Trump as stupid not listening to his experts and blamed him for all the deaths that have occurred. Well, if you are going to give him the blame then you have to give him the credit when things are not that bad. IMO the two medical experts came out and said that there are going to be between 100,000 and 200,000 dead for two reasons: one is to get people to stay strong on the isolation. That is the good. The second is to come up with a number high enough that Trump can brag about if that death total is not reached. That is the bad/political. But with the latest data, no way in hell we are getting to that number..I have been a loyal Trump supporter since "The Art of the Deal". But I am changing my mind lately over his induced panic and dishonesty over the Corona scam. He is just like another pol now to me. He lied to the American People when he promised never to do that. It's influenza, get over it.

JjBee62
04-01-20, 18:33
I know what you mean, but you are using the term death rate and death percentage like they are interchangeable. The percentage death rate will go down with more testing as asymptomatic or barely symptomatic people will be tested. The number of dead has nowhere to go but up.

I agree that it does seem about a 1% death rate. The thing is how do you get to a million? We are at 200,000 now. We are not seeing the exponential rate pf growth like there was. The last five days have been at 20,000 new cases or so. That would be 40 more days at 20,000 new cases a day or this just being a lull before the explosion.

If you have a 1% death rate, you have to get to 2. 4 million before Covid is worse than this year's flu and you have to get to 8 million to get to the flu in 2017. To get that, we would need a pattern not seen in China, Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore or South Korea. Even Italy has gone from its plateau to a downward trend. There is no pattern in any country where I have seen that there is a plateau and then a rapid rise upwards.What's your take on the Ecuador vs Colombia situation?

Ecuador 2372 cases, 79 deaths, population 17 million.

Colombia 906 cases, 16 deaths, population 49 million.

I haven't seen anything on Ecuadorian response, but have kept up to date on Colombia.

Another thing I'll just note:

4.3% of the world population lives in the US.

22% of known cases are in the US.

Nearly 10% of worldwide deaths are in the US.

Elvis 2008
04-01-20, 21:17
I have been a loyal Trump supporter since "The Art of the Deal". But I am changing my mind lately over his induced panic and dishonesty over the Corona scam. He is just like another pol now to me. He lied to the American People when he promised never to do that. It's influenza, get over it.Hey, I get it. Do you know the four senators who got spooked and sold their stocks? They seemed to have been the only ones who really got what was going on. Trump was saying what he hoped would happen versus what did. The problem is that Democrats, especially New York ones, may have been worse than Trump. So what is the alternative?

In 2008, Obama got the financial crisis way better than McCain or GW Bush did. Those two were truly clueless. I would love to vote for someone who really understood what was happening over Trump but Joe Biden? Come on.

When Michael Lewis went to write the Big Short, he wasn't interested in people who knew. He was interested in people who knew, followed their convictions, and made money off the meltdown. Anyone who had the brains to do that with this crisis is someone I would like to see in office.

Elvis 2008
04-01-20, 21:26
What's your take on the Ecuador vs Colombia situation?

Ecuador 2372 cases, 79 deaths, population 17 million.

Colombia 906 cases, 16 deaths, population 49 million.

I haven't seen anything on Ecuadorian response, but have kept up to date on Colombia.When you go on climate, international travel to a region, population density, and response to quarantine as the expected variables, Colombia has unfolded exactly as I expected. Ecuador has not. Apparently, Ecuador got a case very early on and didn't go into quarantine right away. It has a lot of people traveling to the Galapagos Islands, and the virus is mostly centered around Guayaquil where the early case came in. Apparently, Ecuador got a case very early on and didn't go into quarantine right away. It has a lot of people traveling to the Galapagos Islands, and the virus is mostly centered around Guayaquil where the early case came in. But it is an outlier country no doubt.

Lou32
04-02-20, 00:06
I have been a loyal Trump supporter since "The Art of the Deal". But I am changing my mind lately over his induced panic and dishonesty over the Corona scam. He is just like another pol now to me. He lied to the American People when he promised never to do that. It's influenza, get over it.Have you ever had Covid-19?

Combo
04-02-20, 00:40
What's your take on the Ecuador vs Colombia situation?

Ecuador 2372 cases, 79 deaths, population 17 million.

Colombia 906 cases, 16 deaths, population 49 million.

I haven't seen anything on Ecuadorian response, but have kept up to date on Colombia.

Another thing I'll just note:

4.3% of the world population lives in the US.

22% of known cases are in the US.

Nearly 10% of worldwide deaths are in the US.Key words - "known cases". We don't have good info on what's happening in some countries, most notably China.

Zeos1
04-02-20, 01:04
Key words - "known cases". We don't have good info on what's happening in some countries, most notably China.And what difference does it make what's happening in China. What's happening in the US is clear. Pandemic. I'm no epidemiologist but I can do simple math.

And it didn't have to be that way. And those that say it's just flu. Perhaps the 1918 flu, but no other flu has killed so many so quickly and spread like this.

Elvis 2008
04-02-20, 02:11
I can do simple math.

And it didn't have to be that way. And those that say it's just flu. Perhaps the 1918 flu, but no other flu has killed so many so quickly and spread like this.It has NOT killed that many. This flu season was 24000.2017 was 80,000 in the USA. We are nowhere near that number.

I am not sure if there has been a virus this contagious before, but the human response to it has been dramatic as well.

To put things in perspective, about two billion people in the world have tuberculosis. 170,000 people die a year or about 5000 a day die from it: https://www.who.int/health-topics/tuberculosis#tab=tab_1.

Fun Luvr
04-02-20, 02:24
And what difference does it make what's happening in China. What's happening in the US is clear. Pandemic. I'm no epidemiologist but I can do simple math.

And it didn't have to be that way. And those that say it's just flu. Perhaps the 1918 flu, but no other flu has killed so many so quickly and spread like this.What would you have done to change "that way"?

Mojo Bandit
04-02-20, 02:29
What's your take on the Ecuador vs Colombia situation?

Ecuador 2372 cases, 79 deaths, population 17 million.

Colombia 906 cases, 16 deaths, population 49 million.


4.3% of the world population lives in the US.

22% of known cases are in the US.

Nearly 10% of worldwide deaths are in the US.


When you go on climate, international travel to a region, population density, and response to quarantine as the expected variables, Colombia has unfolded exactly as I expected. Ecuador has not. Apparently, Ecuador got a case very early on and didn't go into quarantine right away. It has a lot of people traveling to the Galapagos Islands, and the virus is mostly centered around Guayaquil where the early case came in. Apparently, Ecuador got a case very early on and didn't go into quarantine right away. It has a lot of people traveling to the Galapagos Islands, and the virus is mostly centered around Guayaquil where the early case came in. But it is an outlier country no doubt.I agree with Elvis about the two factors that explain the cases in USA. More people travel to the USA and the population density of the areas. Especially NYC where 1/3 of USA cases are really. If you look at the section of the graphic I include all you have to do is add Spain and Italy and there are more cases in these combined countries than USA (I know its been there longer but their curve has not flattened) The current population of Italy is 60,483,53 , population of Spain is 46,750,337, population of the United States of America is 330,520,584. Their combined population is a third of ours. I wonder if that is our future. In the amount of time that is the difference in time between when it hit them and when it hit us are our numbers going to triple?

Zeos1
04-02-20, 03:49
What would you have done to change "that way"?Many other countries handled it differently, a lot better. Actually, most other countries. The US must have thought that it wasn't really going to happen. I'm not sure. They were certainly getting mixed messages from the leaders. Federal and some state leaders. They didn't do the things that other countries did, such as restricting movement of people, getting people to stay at home, etc. Actually, even in the US Washington State and California have handled it a lot better.

There was an animated graph floating around comparing the increase in cases for many countries on a day to day basis. Starting at a threshold of 100 cases. The US was way down the list. Started to move up. And then accelerated moving up past other countries until now it is a way past any other country. First one to hit 1000 deaths in a day.

Nounce
04-02-20, 07:13
Many other countries handled it differently, a lot better. Actually, most other countries. The US must have thought that it wasn't really going to happen. I'm not sure. California does not wait for the federal government to take action. Once the high tech companies found one infection. The companies shutdown the whole campus early on, followed by cites, counties, state last.

I don't understand the reasoning behind some other state officials who balk at quarantine or threaten to sue others when other states want to block people traveling from the highly infected state.

JjBee62
04-02-20, 07:15
It has NOT killed that many. This flu season was 24000.2017 was 80,000 in the USA. We are nowhere near that number.

I am not sure if there has been a virus this contagious before, but the human response to it has been dramatic as well.

To put things in perspective, about two billion people in the world have tuberculosis. 170,000 people die a year or about 5000 a day die from it: https://www.who.int/health-topics/tuberculosis#tab=tab_1.I thought we'd already been over these things.

24,000 flu deaths out of 38-54 million cases.

5,000 coronavirus deaths out of 200,000 cases. Assuming we hit 1 million known cases in the US, number of coronavirus deaths will surpass flu deaths. If we matched the number of flu cases, coronavirus would cause nearly 40 times as many deaths. All based on currently available data.

To put things in perspective with tuberculosis:

87% of new Tuberculosis cases occur in 8 countries: India, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Pakistan, Nigeria, Bangladesh and South Africa. The US only has around 9,000 cases of Tuberculosis per year and that number has dropped every year since 1992.

YippieKayay
04-02-20, 11:20
California does not wait for the federal government to take action. Once the high tech companies found one infection. The companies shutdown the whole campus early on, followed by cites, counties, state last.

I don't understand the reasoning behind some other state officials who balk at quarantine or threaten to sue others when other states want to block people traveling from the highly infected state.They don't care. They would sooner kill a grandma than shut down their glorious economy. That's really what it is.

ChuchoLoco
04-02-20, 15:49
Hey, I get it. Do you know the four senators who got spooked and sold their stocks? They seemed to have been the only ones who really got what was going on.

When Michael Lewis went to write the Big Short, he wasn't interested in people who knew. He was interested in people who knew, followed their convictions, and made money off the meltdown. Anyone who had the brains to do that with this crisis is someone I would like to see in office.I hope I am misunderstanding, but Diane Feinstein for president?

Surfer500
04-02-20, 16:23
California does not wait for the federal government to take action. Once the high tech companies found one infection. The companies shutdown the whole campus early on, followed by cites, counties, state last.

I don't understand the reasoning behind some other state officials who balk at quarantine or threaten to sue others when other states want to block people traveling from the highly infected state.It boils down to politics mostly, if you look at the red states versus the blue states, and the politicians in charge, generally the blue states, such as California, instigated lock down measures sooner than the red states.

I could say a lot more on this topic, but am going to stay out of the political fray.

It's all water under the bridge now, and with the USA now being the number 1 with cases and deaths on the horizon, it will be a long time before Americans are allowed back into Colombia, or other Countries short of a vaccine like a Yellow Fever Certificate but for the Coorona-Virus, or some other certification, and / or being quarantined.

Fun Luvr
04-02-20, 17:10
Many other countries handled it differently, a lot better. Actually, most other countries. The US must have thought that it wasn't really going to happen. I'm not sure. They were certainly getting mixed messages from the leaders. Federal and some state leaders. They didn't do the things that other countries did, such as restricting movement of people, getting people to stay at home, etc. Actually, even in the US Washington State and California have handled it a lot better. ...Attempting to restrict the movement of people would more than likely have been unsuccessful. Look how quickly Gov. Cuomo threatened to sue other states when they suggested barring people from New York from entering their states.

South Korea was probably the most efficient handling the virus early on, but their first case was almost the same day as the first case in the US. The US did not have the South Korean response to learn from. Also, geographically, South Korea does not face the same challenges as the US. South Korea had dealt with an outbreak of the MERS virus, so they knew what to do, and they had supplies in stock.

If the New York City metropolitan area totals were eliminated from the US totals, the number of deaths per one million population in the US would be very close to the rest of the world. I have no idea what happened in the NYC area that caused the situation they are in.

Zeos1
04-02-20, 20:08
Attempting to restrict the movement of people would more than likely have been unsuccessful. Look how quickly Gov. Cuomo threatened to sue other states when they suggested barring people from New York from entering their states.

South Korea was probably the most efficient handling the virus early on, but their first case was almost the same day as the first case in the US. The US did not have the South Korean response to learn from. Also, geographically, South Korea does not face the same challenges as the US. South Korea had dealt with an outbreak of the MERS virus, so they knew what to do, and they had supplies in stock.

If the New York City metropolitan area totals were eliminated from the US totals, the number of deaths per one million population in the US would be very close to the rest of the world. I have no idea what happened in the NYC area that caused the situation they are in.I recall hearing the WHO. World Health Organization. Begging countries to take it seriously sometime in early February. And by taking it seriously they were referring to using the things that China was already using. Basically stopping movement of people and stopping people from getting together. Even though the thing had gotten out of hand in Wuhan and that area they were able to slow it and stop it. Albeit with much more strict regulation and enforcement than might be tolerated in other places.

Anyway. Just saying. Most of what we know now was known in mid to late January by every national government in the world. It's just that most chose not to act on it, basically for all the same sorts of reasons. And then some moved quicker than others when it became obvious it was spreading worldwide.

As far as what is happening in New York compared to the rest of the country. I think its just a bit further up the curve time wise. The same rates of increase are happening in other parts of the US, with the exception of Washington and California who did take a more aggressive approach.

And deaths per million, or deaths compared to those infected. The numbers are not in yet. People take longer to die than to catch this thing.

Elvis 2008
04-02-20, 23:17
I hope I am misunderstanding, but Diane Feinstein for president?It depends. If she just sold her stock out of fear, which is all she has reported to have done, then no, she is just gutless. If she went short, then I would be impressed and say hell yes! LOL.

Knowledge
04-02-20, 23:39
I really hope there is a break before fall. The economic damage will be much less lengthy if that happens. The latest statistics on Caracol news are encouraging for Colombia at least. It's so much better than the US / Europe numbers. As everyone expected, the number of confirmed cases is growing (by about 50% since last week), but the number of recoveries is outpacing both the number of new cases and the number of deaths:

Total de casos en Colombia.

Contagiados. 1161.

Fallecidos. 19.

Recuperados. 55.

I discovered this running statistic on their web site just today:

https://noticias.caracoltv.com/


It boils down to politics mostly, if you look at the red states versus the blue states, and the politicians in charge, generally the blue states, such as California, instigated lock down measures sooner than the red states.

I could say a lot more on this topic, but am going to stay out of the political fray.

It's all water under the bridge now, and with the USA now being the number 1 with cases and deaths on the horizon, it will be a long time before Americans are allowed back into Colombia, or other Countries short of a vaccine like a Yellow Fever Certificate but for the Coorona-Virus, or some other certification, and / or being quarantined.

Knowledge
04-02-20, 23:53
I've heard various things about the climate factor. Guayaquil and the surrounding region has a much warmer tropical climate compared to Quito and Cuenca. Is that why the virus hotspot is there?


When you go on climate, international travel to a region, population density, and response to quarantine as the expected variables, Colombia has unfolded exactly as I expected. Ecuador has not. Apparently, Ecuador got a case very early on and didn't go into quarantine right away. It has a lot of people traveling to the Galapagos Islands, and the virus is mostly centered around Guayaquil where the early case came in. Apparently, Ecuador got a case very early on and didn't go into quarantine right away. It has a lot of people traveling to the Galapagos Islands, and the virus is mostly centered around Guayaquil where the early case came in. But it is an outlier country no doubt.

YippieKayay
04-03-20, 00:34
It depends. If she just sold her stock out of fear, which is all she has reported to have done, then no, she is just gutless. If she went short, then I would be impressed and say hell yes! LOL.Your leaders, instead of preparing the nation for this pandemic, profited, and kept silent.



I recall hearing the WHO. World Health Organization. Begging countries to take it seriously sometime in early February.

They declared it a pandemic in early March. I was watching that on TV with my chica blowing me in Cartagena. She didn't take it seriously. Then all of a sudden a week later when I got back she was sending me information from UNICEF.

SeekingHead
04-03-20, 01:07
Your leaders, instead of preparing the nation for this pandemic, profited, and kept silent..From what I have Virus Vulture Kelly Lauffler, sold stock, took short & options positions. Short & options are high risk / high reward, but if you already know what is going to happen then they are not very high risk.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32005274/kelly-loeffler-coronavirus-stock-trades-richard-burr/

The largest transactions and the most politically problematic involve $18.7 million in sales of Intercontinental Exchange stock in three separate deals dated Feb. 26 and March 11. Loeffler is a former executive with ICE, and her husband, Jeff Sprecher, is the CEO of the company, which owns the New York Stock Exchange among other financial marketplaces.

During the same time period reflected on reports filed late Tuesday, the couple also sold shares in retail stores such as Lululemon and T. J. Maxx and invested in a company that makes COVID-19 protective garments.

Fun Luvr
04-03-20, 03:29
... And deaths per million, or deaths compared to those infected. The numbers are not in yet. People take longer to die than to catch this thing.The US is in the same boat as the rest of the world. The final numbers are not in from anywhere. Tell me the fallacy of comparing current numbers from the US to current numbers from all other countries. The US was in the first wave of countries to get the virus (after China), about the same time as some other countries, and earlier than many countries. The first detected case in the US was nine days before the first detected case in Italy.

Remember, your statement "Many other countries handled it differently, a lot better. Actually, most other countries. " I am still looking for most countries that handled it better.

I don't want to be augmentative, just trying to understand your train of thought.

Mojo Bandit
04-03-20, 04:07
California does not wait for the federal government to take action. Once the high tech companies found one infection. The companies shutdown the whole campus early on, followed by cites, counties, state last.

I don't understand the reasoning behind some other state officials who balk at quarantine or threaten to sue others when other states want to block people traveling from the highly infected state.Most regional entities did not wait for federal leadership on this because in the beginning there was none. That is not a political statement that is a fact. Most states (Democrat and Republican) swung into action immediately.

In my opinion Florida Governor may be the worst offender. They had spring break partiers from all over the eastern United States down there and refused to do anything to promote social distancing. Then these idiots exported it across half the country at least.

This video is the coolest because it shows them literally tracking the people from one beach and remember that this is just one beach!

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/did-floridas-spring-breakers-spread-coronavirus-across-the-country/

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/spring-breakers-may-have-taken-coronavirus-from-south-florida-across-u-s-data-firm/2213356/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/spring-breakers-coronavirus-140609

The moron in this video summed up their thinking -.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa4i9Ap6dCg

Fun Luvr
04-03-20, 07:30
It boils down to politics mostly, if you look at the red states versus the blue states, and the politicians in charge, generally the blue states, such as California, instigated lock down measures sooner than the red states. ...If that's true, then lock downs don't appear to work. We can look at Colombia and see that lock downs do work there, at least for now. Top 10 states in number of infections: New York, New Jersey, California, Michigan, Louisiana, Florida, Massachusetts, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Washington. Nine of the ten have Democratic governors. Even though Louisiana has a Democratic governor, it is a red state. Florida is the only one with the governor and legislature controlled by Republicans. If you look at the top ten in number of deaths, take out Pennsylvania and put in Georgia. Two Republican governors and eight Democrats. If you content that we must look at populations, then the top ten are: California, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan.

Golfinho
04-03-20, 15:55
Looking for a place or country to go to without the virus? This guy can show you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzaHLeZyc9M

Surfer500
04-03-20, 17:47
If that's true, then lock downs don't appear to work. We can look at Colombia and see that lock downs do work there, at least for now. Top 10 states in number of infections: New York, New Jersey, California, Michigan, Louisiana, Florida, Massachusetts, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Washington. Nine of the ten have Democratic governors. Even though Louisiana has a Democratic governor, it is a red state. Florida is the only one with the governor and legislature controlled by Republicans. If you look at the top ten in number of deaths, take out Pennsylvania and put in Georgia. Two Republican governors and eight Democrats. If you content that we must look at populations, then the top ten are: California, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan.California locked down earlier than most States and accordingly are doing much better percentage wise than others, unfortunately New York is just a different animal I suspect just because so many people travel there versus other Cities and States. The lock downs at least in the States that started them earlier as noted by Fauci and Brix during there briefings confirm this.

I am amazed that the Governor of Georgia just yesterday locked down his State and said he just did it because he had just found out in the last twenty four hours that people with the virus with no symptoms could infect others. The CDC headquarters are located in Georgia, his home State. You would of thought he would of known something about this like everyone else. A bizarre excuse and he should be removed from office. And Florida not shutting down until recently, but until after Spring break.

Does anyone have a rational explanation for the delays these two Republican Governors took in locking down their States, besides party affiliation?

Woodman09
04-03-20, 21:13
The trump pills work, very hard to find now. They were available the other day and all of a sudden very scarce. I think the government bought a lot of the inventory for police and government use. Z packs are available for 30 mil but there was a lot of that around.

I have a course of the Trump pills paid 110 mil. As I write production on the Trump pills is ramping up. There should be plenty in a month. They are one of the keys to bringing things back to normal.

Mojo Bandit
04-03-20, 23:49
Does anyone have a rational explanation for the delays these two Republican Governors took in locking down their States, besides party affiliation?I would not say party affiliation and throw them all into baskets that way. Some Republican governors acted early and get high marks.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/01/coronavirus-state-governors-best-worst-covid-19-159945

The two that you mention are two that have the closest ties to the president: They both owe their primary election to the president.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/brian-kemp-ron-desantis-donald-trump-coronavirus/index.html

Surfer500
04-04-20, 00:02
I would not say party affiliation and throw them all into baskets that way. Some Republican governors acted early and get high marks.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/01/coronavirus-state-governors-best-worst-covid-19-159945

The two that you mention are two that have the closest ties to the president: They both owe their primary election to the president.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/brian-kemp-ron-desantis-donald-trump-coronavirus/index.htmlAgreed, however the Governors of Georgia and Florida should of acted sooner and I put them in the party affiliation dumpster.

Regardless, it's sad.