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Pistons
06-11-20, 05:35
Salaam Pistons,

The Wuhan lab was engaged in the notorious "gain-of-function" research, which was previously banned in the US. Gain-of-function research is about making viruses more deadly rather than less deadly. Some scientists say it helps them understand viruses better.

It's a bit like building a missile launcher and saying, "We don't want to launch missiles. We just want to guess how other nations might launch missiles and see how we might stop that if it happened. ".

You might think that sounds a bit thin.

Details for anyone who is interested: https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21243148/why-some-labs-work-on-making-viruses-deadlier-and-why-they-should-stop.Yeah, similar lab was found in Sierra Leone, 'researching' Ebola.

By the way, the Covid-19 doesn't only have that FURIN cleavage I mentioned, which doesn't come naturally in nature at just one mutation, and at exactly the right location on the corona. But it also has an Ace2 receptor which makes it even more contagious among humans than among bats. Weird how these two totally different mutations mutated simultaneously on the same single bat, or one the same single animal betwen bats and humans, at the exact same time. While the same Covid-19 virus is still not found among bats. Only a close related virus.

It is almost as if that intermediate animal was a petri dish.

If that does not settle it, then you might as well believe in Santa Claus and flying unicorns.

Sirioja
06-13-20, 12:03
Pekin again under virus, when China is closed for foreigners. Brazil, some parts of South America, India, South Africa, and again some US states, are under virus, when Western Europe should open inside borders on Monday, except for UK and Spain. Then possible to go to Swiss clubs which are already opened.

Chongmal
06-14-20, 13:30
Pekin again under virus, when China is closed for foreigners. Brazil, some parts of South America, India, South Africa, and again some US states, are under virus, when Western Europe should open inside borders on Monday, except for UK and Spain. Then possible to go to Swiss clubs which are already opened.The COVID doesn't care about borders. The southern hemisphere enters cold and flu season.

And sees an influx in COVID cases which was predicted months ago. I live in a sparsely populated area about the size of Germany. During the lock down there was still a lot of activity but low virus spread. We now see people moving across and into the area for summer vacation and the infection rates are accelerating. I predict that the US will fail at implementing any future lock down and the virus will run it's course.

SinglePro
06-15-20, 04:55
I think nobody knew about how work this new killer virus, so, many countries made many mistakes, but only one Trump and one Bolsonaro, Africa was lucky with weather, Olympics will tell for Japan and time will tell for China.If I were you, I wouldn't pay much attention to Bolsonaro or Trump. They're just doing what they've promised what their voters elected them to do. Japan is doing fine without complete lockdown which has caused so much damage to the economy and society. How's the French economy working out so far compared that to Japan? You should be worrying about your Emmanuel Macron who is the darling of the global elitists that have screwed their own working class citizens by following the globalism crap. Remember how Brexit came about? There is a chance that Macron may not even be able to finish his current term. Many members of parliament (MP) of his party have abandoned him. The Yellow Vest protests will go on. Waiting in the wings is the anti globalist Marine LE Pen who possibly one day will become the president of France. Wouldn't be surprised if that ever happens. There might even be a Frexit in the future. Who knows. Time will tell. The wind is blowing in the other direction all over the world, not the direction you like. Keep sticking your head in the sand if you want. Good luck.

Rocky V
06-15-20, 14:52
If I were you, I wouldn't pay much attention to Bolsonaro or Trump. They're just doing what they've promised what their voters elected them to do. Yes, in fact we all can see: 1) The finished mighty new wall with Mexico, which was entirely paid by Mexico; 2) the 35% tariff for any car imported into US; 3) The re-opening of the coal mines and the miners happily going underground again; 4) Covid has disappeared miraculously in April, just like Trump said and so on.


The Yellow Vest protests will go on. Waiting in the wings is the anti globalist Marine LE Pen who possibly one day will become the president of France. Wouldn't be surprised if that ever happens. There might even be a Frexit in the future. Who knows. Time will tell. The wind is blowing in the other direction all over the world, not the direction you like. Keep sticking your head in the sand if you want. Good luck.Maybe you should get your head out of the Brexit foul-stinking sand and face reality! You have been conned about Brexit my friend, sorry about that, mate! Big hugs!

Pessimist
06-16-20, 21:39
Headline news are saying China India are in some kinda military tiff and China killed 20+ Indian troops.

This is inline with prior discussion about China using Corona virus damage that was inflicted on its rivals and trying to take them on economically, trade wise, and militarily; HK is already occupied, Taiwan is being bullied; Philippines was badgered 2 years ago. Now India will take a beating.

I am sure our erudite expert (s) will disagree and tell me I am completely misreading this, or that there is not enough consensus that China is in any real confrontation with India. Perhaps FT and WSJ are wrong. But here are two links; perhaps FT and WSJ may not be sufficiently up to the standards of erudite masters, and I hope they can correct me and these two publications where they made mistakes.

https://www.ft.com/content/15a1cc68-4ab8-4acf-b230-7fe331adca33#comments-anchor.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-china-border-dispute-turns-deadly-11592305962?mod=hp_lead_pos4

Sirioja
06-17-20, 20:32
China back under virus.

770.000 HIV deaths in 2018, when some seem to think not dangerous.

Polyamorist
06-19-20, 20:08
Progress in Germany / EU versus the US:

LeyenLouvain
06-19-20, 22:10
China back under virus.

770.000 HIV deaths in 2018, when some seem to think not dangerous.Of which probably less than 1000 in France and Germany.

Sirioja
06-20-20, 01:11
Of which probably less than 1000 in France and Germany.If You mean less than 1000 HIV deaths in France, I would like so much You are right, but I'm pretty sure we have much more. About Germany, any doctor would confirm risk for AO RTC, I think more dangerous than virus, because healthy recover from virus, when healthy is not anymore healthy under HIV.

Tuber19
06-20-20, 03:21
Coronavirus was already in Italy by December, waste water study finds.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53106444

That make me wonder, was the Virus in Frankfurt earlier than March?? I was having nice time in Sharks late February! Maybe too many girls already had it!! Who knows.

Chongmal
06-20-20, 07:34
Progress in Germany / EU versus the US:How do these numbers work out per capita and how do the percentage of fatalities compare? Using comparative statistics only Germany is impressing me with these numbers. As far a bagging on the US, we have enough other problems that are low hanging fruit, but. All this crap we are experiencing are like "The Shot Heard Around The World" and any other country may wake up to a new turmoil they didn't even know was getting warm and now they find it boiling.

Sirioja
06-20-20, 11:44
Coronavirus was already in Italy by December, waste water study finds.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53106444

That make me wonder, was the Virus in Frankfurt earlier than March?? I was having nice time in Sharks late February! Maybe too many girls already had it!! Who knows.Some got virus on October after international military competition in China, but nobody knew what it was and China lied for months, to try to save their already falling cheap economy, and when they don t respect also for pollution which kill much more than virus, US also don t respect for pollution, but they have Trump who found HIV vaccine. Funny crazy world where real white bears don t have anymore home on ice, Bangladesh will be soon new Atlantis with millions new fishes, and in few years, no more snow for me to ski. Virus will kill less in France than pollution, or cigarettes.

Sancho Panza
06-21-20, 00:35
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-german-slaughterhouse-outbreak-crosses-1000/a-53883372

Hopefully this will not hurt fight to open the FKK sex clubs and be contained. If the link was already posted by one of the guy who copies links over here already apologies for the double posting. Takes time for my posts to appear. But anyway, let hope they get it under control ASAP.

Polyamorist
06-21-20, 02:45
A couple of months ago I said South Korea was kicking ass in the fight against Coronavirus. It didn't look like anybody could do better. But now Switzerland is ranked #1 and Germany #2 out of 200 nations studied. South Korea is #10.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20200607/switzerland-officially-the-worlds-safest-country-for-coronavirus

Tp273
06-21-20, 05:07
If I were you, I wouldn't pay much attention to Bolsonaro or Trump. They're just doing what they've promised what their voters elected them to do..Trump is just doing what he thinks he needs to do to get re-elected. It seems less people are buying his lies lately as his poll numbers are dropping. I had to laugh when I saw many of his brain washed supporters carring the " Make America Great Again" posters at his rally today. That slogan is now better suited for Biden after Trump spent the last 3 1/2 years F*ucking up my country for his own personal gain!

JustTimePass
06-21-20, 05:58
Headline news are saying China India are in some kinda military tiff and China killed 20+ Indian troops.

This is inline with prior discussion about China using Corona virus damage that was inflicted on its rivals and trying to take them on economically, trade wise, and militarily; HK is already occupied, Taiwan is being bullied; Philippines was badgered 2 years ago. Now India will take a beating.

I am sure our erudite expert (s) will disagree and tell me I am completely misreading this, or that there is not enough consensus that China is in any real confrontation with India. Perhaps FT and WSJ are wrong. But here are two links; perhaps FT and WSJ may not be sufficiently up to the standards of erudite masters, and I hope they can correct me and these two publications where they made mistakes.

https://www.ft.com/content/15a1cc68-4ab8-4acf-b230-7fe331adca33#comments-anchor.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-china-border-dispute-turns-deadly-11592305962?mod=hp_lead_pos4The news is correct. I am living in India for last 2 years (atleast 10 months a year). Anyways China is bullying India a lot as well as its neighbors in south China sea, Taiwan and HK. I am sure they want to achieve one thing remove all US influence in this region. China cannot escape that it gave corona to the world. And it has all weather friend Pakistan, NK, Nepal and other few as well. The main problem is India is fighting corona and is yet to reach its peak. So don't know where this all will lead to. Many people and government is looking at US for support but yet to hear anything. I don't know what China is achieving by being a bully. Is it thinking that it can simply replace US as super power?

ExpatLover
06-21-20, 07:00
The news is correct. I am living in India for last 2 years (atleast 10 months a year). Anyways China is bullying India a lot as well as its neighbors in south China sea, Taiwan and HK. I am sure they want to achieve one thing remove all US influence in this region. China cannot escape that it gave corona to the world. And it has all weather friend Pakistan, NK, Nepal and other few as well. The main problem is India is fighting corona and is yet to reach its peak. So don't know where this all will lead to. Many people and government is looking at US for support but yet to hear anything. I don't know what China is achieving by being a bully. Is it thinking that it can simply replace US as super po.Reply: I worked 5 years in India, India has not only to fight the covid 19, they are facing a lot of challenges, how can we imagine that India has more or less no highways, the trains are at least 70 years old, critical shortage of electricity.

Extremely segregate populations, between religions, castes, ethnics. 50 years back China and India where at the same level of development, today China is probably not far to be the super power number 1 and India is still struggling to start to develop, without speaking about the crazy unbalanced ratio woman to man which leads in some places to have 60 man for 40 woman: so many sexually frustrated young man with 0 access to sex.

The Cane
06-21-20, 11:35
Trump is just doing what he thinks he needs to do to get re-elected. I had to laugh when I saw many of his brain washed supporters carrying the " Make America Great Again" posters at his rally today. That slogan is now better suited for Biden.Yeah, no kidding! How incredibly ironic! Although, I thought the slogan for this campaign was going to be "Keep America Great". But as you say, the 2016 slogan would be more fitting. For the other guy!

Turgid
06-21-20, 15:36
Trump is just doing what he thinks he needs to do to get re-elected. It seems less people are buying his lies lately as his poll numbers are dropping. I had to laugh when I saw many of his brain washed supporters carring the " Make America Great Again" posters at his rally today. That slogan is now better suited for Biden after Trump spent the last 3 1/2 years F*ucking up my country for his own personal gain!A Trump supporter carrying a "Make America Great Again" sign at a 2020 Trump rally is not very smart. After Trump's full term in office shouldn't protesters at Trump's rallies be carrying that sign now?

SaratogaX
06-21-20, 21:12
Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.

-Grocery stores.

-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.

I'll go first:

East Coast USA.

- 100%.

- 60%.

I know these numbers depends on number of other factors but let's not go there.

TIA.

Sirioja
06-21-20, 22:33
Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.

-Grocery stores.

-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.

I'll go first:

East Coast USA.

- 100%.

- 60%.

I know these numbers depends on number of other factors but let's not go there.

TIA.When I took gas in Germany, woman on shop desk told me: mask on is law. Masks are quite rare in Paris streets.

Sirioja
06-21-20, 22:39
Reply: I worked 5 years in India, India has not only to fight the covid 19, they are facing a lot of challenges, how can we imagine that India has more or less no highways, the trains are at least 70 years old, critical shortage of electricity.

Extremely segregate populations, between religions, castes, ethnics. 50 years back China and India where at the same level of development, today China is probably not far to be the super power number 1 and India is still struggling to start to develop, without speaking about the crazy unbalanced ratio woman to man which leads in some places to have 60 man for 40 woman: so many sexually frustrated young man with 0 access to sex.On western Europe standards, China is low quality, only worthing because cheap, but not for quality and reliability like for tests. Europe have to produce for our safety and health in Europe.

Sirioja
06-21-20, 23:02
When I planned a Switzerland tour on this week end, but after no room at Swiss on Thursday evening when I was not able to go to girls and some came to me, but not able to desire, after Friday at Freubad where I needed 2 hours to go to a elegant desirable look, and 2 other rooms after, so I skipped Globe and Amesia to go in my beloved mountains. Great Sunday today, for breakfast, running up la Madeleine versus motorbikes accelerating and braking more, but they couldn't compete in curves and on really high speed, even I had to be careful about bicycles, then climbing telegraphe even more than 35 degrees at the bottom in Saint Michel Maurienne, not bad for just training at the moment, but best pleasure was to see Swiss, Italians, even NL, Germans, Austrians and Spanish already in France when only opened since less than a week, really happy for employment in my little so beautiful France which need tourism income when many Europeans love France for our quality of life. Wish for many European tourists on this Summer, even no US nor Asians.

Pistons
06-21-20, 23:07
I've only seen 2 people wear face masks in the city I live in (400 k people) since this whole thing started. And that was on the street.

Northern Europe.

PaulInZurich
06-22-20, 01:38
Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.
-Grocery stores.
-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.Zurich.

- 4%. Only some of the old people.

- 0% practically nobody.

JustTimePass
06-22-20, 02:27
Reply: I worked 5 years in India, India has not only to fight the covid 19, they are facing a lot of challenges, how can we imagine that India has more or less no highways, the trains are at least 70 years old, critical shortage of electricity.

Extremely segregate populations, between religions, castes, ethnics. 50 years back China and India where at the same level of development, today China is probably not far to be the super power number 1 and India is still struggling to start to develop, without speaking about the crazy unbalanced ratio woman to man which leads in some places to have 60 man for 40 woman: so many sexually frustrated young man with 0 access to sex.Yes I do agree on this. There has been some recent development on infrastructure but no where near China. I am just talking about bullying, I still think China is not superpower. With superpower comes lot of responsibility. You have take everyone with you.

Also there will always be difference between democracy and communist regime.

The Cane
06-22-20, 02:48
Yes I do agree on this. There has been some recent development on infrastructure but no where near China. I am just talking about bullying, I still think China is not superpower. With superpower comes lot of responsibility. You have take everyone with you.

Also there will always be difference between democracy and communist regime.I think that in order to be a true super power, not only must you be able to project military and economic power abroad, but you must also be able to extend your cultural values around the world too. China has not done that (Russia failed in this regard also), and I don't see them doing it anytime soon. That, in turn, will prevent China from becoming the leading, predominate diplomatic power and influencer in the world as well.

Tp273
06-22-20, 14:28
Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.

-Grocery stores.

-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.

I'll go first:

East Coast USA.

- 100%.

- 60%.

I know these numbers depends on number of other factors but let's not go there.

TIA.Upstate NY.

Grocery stores - 99 %.

Walmart 90% Always a few assholes who only care about themselves or maybe Trump supporters?

Parks & walking Trails. Only 5 % this last week.

Outdoor venues (Flea Markets & garage sales) only 10 %.

I think many feel the worst is over so they can go back to the old ways. Very few know the Spanish Flue had a similar downturn before it came back even worst a few months later and ended up taking out 50 MILLION people. WEAR THE MASK!!

Optimist
06-22-20, 14:40
Anyone got any reports about percentage of working prostitutes wearing masks when they are with clients? Talking about Germany, not other countries.

Tp273
06-22-20, 14:43
A Trump supporter carrying a "Make America Great Again" sign at a 2020 Trump rally is not very smart. After Trump's full term in office shouldn't protesters at Trump's rallies be carrying that sign now?Most of the crowd had those posters. If these people are supporting Trump again then they are not very smart to begin with! The good news is that after Trump boasted over 1 million people wanted to attend his Rally only less than 6,500 showed up. Looks like most of the folks in Oklahoma are smarting up. Now if they only figure out WEARING A MASK is not a political thing.

Polyamorist
06-22-20, 20:30
Progress in Germany / EU versus the US:I was sceptical at first, but like many of you I have come to believe that the key to controlling the Wu-Flu is face masks. When people wear face masks in public spaces, the virus cannot attach itself to shared surfaces, and so it has no route to infect others.

If everybody in the US had been wearing face masks over the past few months, the same as in Germany, then it would have the same downward curve as Germany (and most other countries). In fact the whole world could have avoided lockdown entirely simply by wearing face masks for two weeks in February or the whole month of March.

Asian countries have experienced other severe flus and were quick to don face masks in February. Europe reluctantly learnt to do the same in March. Due to increased travel, the world will experience more and more pandemics, and Europe will also develop the habit of putting on face masks whenever a new flu starts.

Unfortunately the culture in English-speaking countries, particularly the US, is such that face masks are seen as an oppressive NWO sort of thing. The US also suffered from (1) having an unprecedentedly incompetent administration at the time the pandemic struck, making it impossible to organize a useful response at the federal level, and (2) the long-term "red in tooth and claw" nature of its public healthcare system.

As borders tentatively reopen over the next few months, we may see a weird situation where EU countries allow in Asians but not Africans or Americans 😞. Of course Trump's response would be to stoke popular fury and declare a massive trade war or worse on Europe, resulting in further chaos and economic decline everywhere.

Enjoy!

"Let the waters settle, and you will see the Moon and the Stars mirrored in your own being." - Rumi.

P.S. I still think the idea of prostitutes wearing masks is stupid. Sorry. If you're not comfortable with each other physically, then you can't have real sex.

The Cane
06-22-20, 21:29
As borders tentatively reopen over the next few months, we may see a weird situation where EU countries allow in Asians but not Africans or Americans. Of course Trump's response would be to stoke popular fury and declare a massive trade war or worse on Europe, resulting in further chaos and economic decline everywhere.

P.S. I still think the idea of prostitutes wearing masks is stupid. Sorry. If you're not comfortable with each other physically, then you can't have real sex.Well, I think it's pretty safe for me to say that I will be able to get back into Brazil hahaha! And I too think that seeing a tute wearing a mask is a stupid idea. And you just know there are some who will try to charge a monger 50 euros extra (or more) to remove the mask! You know it's true! LOL!

The Cane
06-23-20, 11:39
NRW imposes broad new lockdown restrictions! This is a major setback for a reopening of the FKK clubs in that region of Germany.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-lockdown-north-rhine-westphalia-meat-factory-outbreak-a9580686.html?amp

Turgid
06-23-20, 15:12
The way I see it sex with both parties wearing a face mask in an FKK means no DFK, no BBBJ and no DATY which for me means no use crossing the Atlantic.

The Cane
06-23-20, 15:30
The way I see it sex with both parties wearing a face mask in an FKK means no DFK, no BBBJ and no DATY which for me means no use crossing the Atlantic.You got that right! I won't be crossing the Atlantic until I can do so without any quarantine requirements, and not until things have returned to business as usual in the clubs (no distancing, no masks, no gloves, and so on).

Pistons
06-23-20, 17:55
NRW imposes broad new lockdown restrictions! This is a major setback for a reopening of the FKK clubs in that region of Germany.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-lockdown-north-rhine-westphalia-meat-factory-outbreak-a9580686.html?ampThankfully it is all the way up between Munster and Bielefeld. And not in southern Rhein-Ruhr.

Downandup
06-23-20, 19:13
Thankfully it is all the way up between Munster and Bielefeld. And not in southern Rhein-Ruhr.No matter! RKI will be keeping a careful eye on GŁtersloh and Warendorf to watch for the virus spreading. It should make leaders even more cautious and they may get even more reluctant to open the FKK's. I noticed last week that the states are working together more and with the federal government on joint planning instead of going their own way.

MaxSquatter
06-23-20, 19:51
This whole thing is so hyped up. Daily deaths are crashing all over. In Germany deaths and even new cases have been crashing since May. So overblown.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=uk_yXpPgFKq-gge47bvoBQ&q=covid+19+germany+cases&oq=covid+19+germany+cases&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzICCAAyAggAOgQIABBHUKc9WIZKYLZNaABwAngAgAFbiAGBA5IBATWYAQCgAQGgAQKqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiTpbSIzpjqAhUqn-AKHbj2Dl0Q4dUDCAw&uact=5

Sirioja
06-23-20, 21:11
NRW imposes broad new lockdown restrictions! This is a major setback for a reopening of the FKK clubs in that region of Germany.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-lockdown-north-rhine-westphalia-meat-factory-outbreak-a9580686.html?ampWhen they need to put more than 600000 people under confined in NRW, maybe Germany have to be careful. Lisboa is also under confined. Austria is more isolated between Hungary, Czech, and German and Swiss won't go for brothels. Switzerland is too expensive for most, even not many Asians at Globe. But Germany is a big brothel, dangerous playfield.

Sauer Kraut
06-23-20, 22:36
Maybe not best news for any man wishing to travel from USA to Germany.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200623-european-union-usa-tourism-ban-covid-19-coliseum

Pessimist
06-24-20, 02:23
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

OK, so there goes the FKK plan for any American sex tourist if this news is accurate.

Back in March, Trump was strutting around with his announcement that he is blocking travel from Some EU nations. This would be appropriate retribution from them now.

I was not planning on attending FKKs until there is a reliable vaccine or until the infection rates are minuscule all over the place. But for guys who keep asking when the clubs are going to open. If you are an American, you may be out of luck for a while even if the clubs open in a normal or limited capacity at some point.

FWIW, I continue to be very skeptical that the large German clubs like Oase and Sharks will open any time before September, and It is highly unlikely prior to even December in my personal view.

Tp273
06-24-20, 14:07
This whole thing is so hyped up. Daily deaths are crashing all over. In Germany deaths and even new cases have been crashing since May. So overblown.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=uk_yXpPgFKq-gge47bvoBQ&q=covid+19+germany+cases&oq=covid+19+germany+cases&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzICCAAyAggAOgQIABBHUKc9WIZKYLZNaABwAngAgAFbiAGBA5IBATWYAQCgAQGgAQKqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiTpbSIzpjqAhUqn-AKHbj2Dl0Q4dUDCAw&uact=5Graph shows 500+ cases average last 3 days. What happens if I fly to Germany and become one of the 500? Until there is a working vaccine it not worth the risk!

MaxSquatter
06-24-20, 20:40
That's your call of course. Just remember that 500 cases amongst a population of 83,000,000 is pretty tiny.


Graph shows 500+ cases average last 3 days. What happens if I fly to Germany and become one of the 500? Until there is a working vaccine it not worth the risk!

McAdonis
06-25-20, 21:08
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=HomepageReaching a bit, but I could see two potential glimmers of hope in that article:
"European officials said the list would be revised every two weeks to reflect new realities around the world as nations see the virus ebb and flow."

Although I cannot imagine buying intercontinental tickets in summer with two weeks lead time would be cheap.
"The E.U. cant force members to adopt it, but European officials warn that failure of any of the 27 members to stick to it could lead to the reintroduction of borders within the bloc."

See my post in General. Of the major economies, Spain is one of the most dependent on tourism. If I interpret the above snippet correctly, there is an off-chance that Spain could permit American inbound tourists. But that would effectively mean that the other 26 member countries would close their borders to Spain. In that scenario, an American monger could find himself stuck in Spain, where brothels are currently reported to be running at lower capacity. If German clubs remain closed, perhaps Spain receives some displaced ex-FKK WGs as refugees.

Sirioja
06-25-20, 21:19
I really don't understand US with many southern states under virus, but no confined, and even many quite young infected. For the record for death. Worrying from Europe, where even French could be confined.

FlurkMan
06-25-20, 21:53
That's your call of course. Just remember that 500 cases amongst a population of 83,000,000 is pretty tiny.500 as compared to 83,000,000?

Sounds like winning a 10,000,000 $ lottery.

ExpatLover
06-29-20, 18:31
Just now 300 people who visited a night club in Zurich the 21 of June where ask to quarantine at home due to 1 positive case detected, I still believe it is not the good time to visit prostitutes or FKK, the risk is high to catch something just because their customers are probably the less careful guys not able to control their libido or they will not go.

TeaInTheSun
07-01-20, 09:20
Just now 300 people who visited a night club in Zurich the 21 of June where ask to quarantine at home due to 1 positive case detected, I still believe it is not the good time to visit prostitutes or FKK, the risk is high to catch something just because their customers are probably the less careful guys not able to control their libido or they will not go.What the FKK junkies do not understand is that due to their addiction it is very likely that in Germany they will be able to definitively close several FKK because once there are several infections maybe few politicians will not hesitate a minute to repeal the law that makes prostitution legal. Wait a few months until everything is a little more normal related to this pandemic. It is better to think with the head that we have above during these times.

Pistons
07-01-20, 11:32
What the FKK junkies do not understand is that due to their addiction it is very likely that in Germany they will be able to definitively close several FKK because once there are several infections maybe few politicians will not hesitate a minute to repeal the law that makes prostitution legal. Wait a few months until everything is a little more normal related to this pandemic. It is better to think with the head that we have above during these times.Do you really believe this is over in a few months?

If so, think again! We will be in this corona situation for 2-3 years. So we will just have to live with it. On and off lockdowns wherever.

I just hope they restrict air travels to a wider number of countries where they slack at monitoring and testing people. Testing should be everyone's number 1 priority. And making it globally transparent. Not like in China for example where a study recently found that 1.3 million people in Hubei province alone had been infected, and then the government keeps lying about it. And then maybe 100 other regimes around the world are following in China's footsteps.

So when we have all these fascist ego governments who likes to show the world how much greater they are at handling it than the rest, that is when we get resurgence of the pandemic. Unfortunately there are too many, and that is why we will not get rid of this ever unless something changes, and ego's goes away. But lets say in 2 years, all the fascists come to their senses.

Oregon97
07-01-20, 21:15
I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.

McAdonis
07-01-20, 23:13
Based on an Italian town where they tested most of the inhabitants, they found that among the positive cases, 40 percent were asymptomatic: https://globalbiodefense.com/2020/06/30/whole-town-study-reveals-large-percentage-of-asymptomatic-covid-19-cases/.

Asymptomatic people seem to lose their antibodies much faster:


"The results, while preliminary, suggest that survivors of SARS-CoV-2 infection may be susceptible to reinfection within weeks or months."

"These reports highlight the need to develop strong vaccines, because immunity that develops naturally during infection is suboptimal and short-lived in most people, Akiko Iwasaki, a viral immunologist at Yale University who was not involved in either study, tells The New York Times. We cannot rely on natural infection to achieve herd immunity.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650
If I understood above article correctly, asymptomatic people can get re-infected a few weeks later. My question is, if one is asymptomatic the first time, does that ensure that one will also be asymptomatic the second or third time? If the answer is yes, then such a person can go to FKK clubs with zero detriment to their own health. But this person could be a potential super spreader, and a portion of the people that they do infect may not have the fortune of being asymptomatic. So mongers need to decide, what their own conscience will allow.

We are still in the early stages, so I am not sure if death rates alone tell the full story. From a quality of life perspective, we do not know the long term outcomes for "survivors". Many people never develop symptoms. Many people experience nothing worse than a normal flu. But I believe there are reports of people who contracted the virus back in March, and while technically they "beat the virus" (meaning they are still alive), they still continue to have difficulties breathing three months later.

TBH, I will probably choose to not take an overly cautious approach, but I wouldn't criticize those that have lower risk tolerance. A few mongers who live in France, Germany, and Benelux told me they will either continue to abstain from WGs or just see WGs privately in hotels, believing the clubs to be petri dishes. Another monger friend is not concerned about health risks, but he is concerned that the LU will be at half strength and that some WGs may upsell for DFK, so he will wait for the first batch of reports to flow in before committing to a visit. If we all rush back right away, it might embolden those WGs with upselling tendencies.

Clodius1
07-02-20, 00:31
American Airlines announcing today that they will begin stuffing passengers into the middle seats again until the planes burst with capacity. And you wonder why the EU wants to keep Americans the hell out? I won't be flying to EU or anywhere else unless they have a vaccine or effective therapeutic. Thanks China.

Polyamorist
07-02-20, 00:42
I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.Salaam Oregon97. Good points. Sounds like it is healthier to be out in the wild having lots of sex than huddling in the cellar with your mask and gloves on. You only live once, might as well make the most of it.

Chongmal
07-02-20, 04:35
I really don't understand US with many southern states under virus, but no confined, and even many quite young infected. For the record for death. Worrying from Europe, where even French could be confined.Just like American politics, it's not your problem to worry about. You are in Europe, going to prostitute princesses. We are locked out so we won't be infecting your favorite prostitutes so no worry. I am curious how intimate physical contact with a stranger who is sharing bodily fluids with other people is considered confined, unless said intimate contact is happening in a Swiss prison.

We are closing in on 1% infected. Depending on the study, this means in another 19-89% we will reach heard immunity. A few weeks ago the Swedish government was being praised for their free range approach to managing the infection. So, as long as you are there, watch for loose rocks and water in the corners when descending on your bike, watch for bottomless crevices while you free ride, keep an eye on the Coyote so you don't get tickets in Switzerland and keep a close watch for prostitutes with runny noses.

Rocky V
07-02-20, 16:34
I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.The hope is that the virus becomes weaker and, even if it remains in the population like many other coronaviruses, it would just cause mild symptoms. This is what happened with the Spanish flu at the beginning of 1900. We still get Spanish flu, but now the virus only causes mild flu-symptoms and very few people die from it.

Pistons
07-03-20, 19:07
The hope is that the virus becomes weaker and, even if it remains in the population like many other coronaviruses, it would just cause mild symptoms. This is what happened with the Spanish flu at the beginning of 1900. We still get Spanish flu, but now the virus only causes mild flu-symptoms and very few people die from it.I have heard this argument so many times, but I wonder if you are really considering the following:

- There are already probably thousands of mutations of the virus. On the Faroe Islands alone, a tiny island, there were 40 different mutations among a small sample base!

- The chances foe the FURIN cleavage and the ACE2 receptor to mutate away is still extremely small. So the transmittance rate will still stay at the same rate.

- Even if half the mutations mutates away, the remaining half does not mutate away. So you will still have the original virus at some places.

- Some mutations may be even deadlier than what we have had now. Covid-19 is far from the deadliest version seen of corona viruses when looking at history. It just spreads alot more efficient among humans! (Read the modified FURIN cleavage and Ace2 receptor added in a lab).

Pistons
07-03-20, 19:14
The FURIN cleavage and Ace2 receptors on the virus is also key to why making a vaccine is so difficult. According to one doctor, there was a 79% chance of attaining bad side effects from the vaccines themselves, since it has to focus on the part of the virus that attaches to human cells.

So forget about that idea if you ask me! Some idiots might still give it a go however. The scientist I heard this from was working on a vaccine focusing on the remaining 21% of the virus. But that would still mean a 21% chance of side effects according to him. And by the way, this is how all vaccines work.

Pistons
07-03-20, 19:17
But I totally agree with Oregon. We cannot all go into hiding for the next 100 years. Although escaping into our own The Matrix might be an option. But that is decades away. Most likely. At least before it gets any good.

Polyamorist
07-03-20, 22:31
I previously talked about how South Korea and Switzerland had handled the pandemic comparatively well. But I would also like to salute Taiwan. They always had strained relations with China, so they did not believe the lies coming out at the beginning of the year, and took swift action. The result?

Total deaths: 7.

Active cases: 4.

Recoveries: 438.

Also a shout-out to Sweden, which received harsh criticism for not implementing a lockdown. Yesterday, it recorded zero deaths from COVID-19 on that day. The US had 671.

The Cane
07-03-20, 22:52
I previously talked about how South Korea and Switzerland had handled the pandemic comparatively well. But I would also like to salute Taiwan. They always had strained relations with China, so they did not believe the lies coming out at the beginning of the year, and took swift action. The result?

Total deaths: 7.

Active cases: 4.

Recoveries: 438.

Also a shout-out to Sweden, which received harsh criticism for not implementing a lockdown. Yesterday, it recorded zero deaths from COVID-19 on that day. The US had 671.Although not the PRC, Taiwan did utilize some pretty harsh, draconian tactics that would be considered a violation of privacy in the West. But then again, that's just the problem with the West when it comes to handling something like this, especially in the United States. Everybody is quick to assert their rights, but they aren't too quick to talk about and fulfill their responsibilities to others. People are far too concerned with freedom of expression versus the need to exercise some self-restraint. Throw in ineffective leadership, and the disease runs rampant!

Mursenary
07-04-20, 01:27
The FURIN cleavage and Ace2 receptors on the virus is also key to why making a vaccine is so difficult. According to one doctor, there was a 79% chance of attaining bad side effects from the vaccines themselves, since it has to focus on the part of the virus that attaches to human cells.

So forget about that idea if you ask me! Some idiots might still give it a go however. The scientist I heard this from was working on a vaccine focusing on the remaining 21% of the virus. But that would still mean a 21% chance of side effects according to him. And by the way, this is how all vaccines work.Stopped reading after poster states that there is an Ace2 receptor on the virus.

Master Monger
07-04-20, 01:28
Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.

The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, about all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19.

The University of Alaska the 26th top rated university in the USA released a report on March 25th 2020 explicitly proving the US government's report "that took 7 years" about how building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed was completely false. That means the US government lied about how the buildings came down on 9/11 2001 and the only way it could have happened was a controlled demolition. Building 7 was the home to CIA black ops and the Secret Service. Nobody heard about this news because COVID-19 miraculously went from 15 cases on February 28 to 70,000 cases by March 25th inundating the media with COVID-19 news.

Just in case a news story that you can verify from a major university doesn't convince you about the government's involvement in 9/11 here are some other facts.

The owner of the World Trade Centers took out an insurance policy for 3. 5 billion dollars covering "terrorist attacks" just a few months before the attacks.

Of the 84 videos capturing the attack on the pentagon on 9/11 only 4 have been released to the public because those 4 don't show the plane. Was there a plane?

In the US if a hospital reports a patient has Covid-19 they receive $12,000 or more and if they have to put this alleged covid-19 patient on a ventilator they receive another $39,000. They also receive an undisclosed amount for every Covid-19 death they report.

The US government stole $3 Trillion dollars, which has been added to US debt, to pay for the CARES act or Covid-19 relief act, of which less than $1 Trillion has been given to the people who actually need it, who are not millionaires, the other $2 Trillion and change went to government officials and people who are worth millions of dollars already.

The top billionaires in the US made almost a $1 Trillion dollars from the stock market after the panicked US middle classed population sold their plummeting stocks during the beginning of Covid-19 in the US. A few days later when the billionaires realized covid-19 was a big scam they bought the middle class' stock and made almost a $1 Trillion among them in total when the stock quickly recovered.

For those who can't quite comprehend how much 1 Trillion is, let me explain. 1 million seconds is about 11 days, 1 billion seconds is about 30 years, and 1 Trillion seconds is about 30,000 years.

The most dangerous thing you can do is tell a monger he needs to quarantine himself because we are hound dogs and we can find anything. Even the truth.

MM.

Please research and share. We need to spread the truth about what is happening so it ends quickly and never happens again.

Each country's government has gotten their own benefits from COVID-19 which is usually money. Do some research on your country. China used this lockdown opportunity to implement a laws that give them much more control over Hong Kong and now they extradite anyone they like from Hong Kong to Mainland China for pillaging. I mean trial.

TeaInTheSun
07-04-20, 09:13
Do you really believe this is over in a few months?

If so, think again! We will be in this corona situation for 2-3 years. So we will just have to live with it. On and off lockdowns wherever.

I just hope they restrict air travels to a wider number of countries where they slack at monitoring and testing people. Testing should be everyone's number 1 priority. And making it globally transparent. Not like in China for example where a study recently found that 1.3 million people in Hubei province alone had been infected, and then the government keeps lying about it. And then maybe 100 other regimes around the world are following in China's footsteps.

So when we have all these fascist ego governments who likes to show the world how much greater they are at handling it than the rest, that is when we get resurgence of the pandemic. Unfortunately there are too many, and that is why we will not get rid of this ever unless something changes, and ego's goes away. But lets say in 2 years, all the fascists come to their senses.Hey there! Obviously we have to live with this member of the corona's family as we have lived with his other brothers, like mers or sars. Everything seems to indicate that this virus could be weakening in Europe and other places and we may not have such an aggressive second wave next fall or winter. Additionally, we will have a vaccine, from Oxford, that seems effective and will give confidence, especially when we travel. Sure, this is an optimistic view. I prefer to wait until the end of the year to make travel plans, being September as key month to know if our plans are moving well or if we have to continue postponing them for a while.

TeaInTheSun
07-04-20, 09:35
I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.Good points. Another thing that is very important and we should be clearer from the experts is what happens to the possibilities of re-infection or how long can our immune system protect itself if we are positive. Based on this, we can have a better idea of what will happen with us in the near future. I know vaccines can always be controversial, but based on all the trusted information we have now, I think the Oxford vaccine, being tested in Brazil, might be the most reliable. Let see.

Sirioja
07-04-20, 10:01
Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.

The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, about all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19.

The University of Alaska the 26th top rated university in the USA released a report on March 25th 2020 explicitly proving the US government's report "that took 7 years" about how building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed was completely false. That means the US government lied about how the buildings came down on 9/11 2001 and the only way it could have happened was a controlled demolition. Building 7 was the home to CIA black ops and the Secret Service. Nobody heard about this news because COVID-19 miraculously went from 15 cases on February 28 to 70,000 cases by March 25th inundating the media with COVID-19 news.

Just in case a news story that you can verify from a major university doesn't convince you about the government's involvement in 9/11 here are some other facts.

The owner of the World Trade Centers took out an insurance policy for 3. 5 billion dollars covering "terrorist attacks" just a few months before the attacks.

Of the 84 videos capturing the attack on the pentagon on 9/11 only 4 have been released to the public because those 4 don't show the plane. Was there a plane?

In the US if a hospital reports a patient has Covid-19 they receive $12,000 or more and if they have to put this alleged covid-19 patient on a ventilator they receive another $39,000. They also receive an undisclosed amount for every Covid-19 death they report..With more than 10 millions illegals and I m pretty sure more than 50 millions without healthcare insurance, and with Trump, how could US know about their own truth? I think this virus is real mirror of what they are. Of course, we all know China lie to try to protect their already before virus falling economy and don't respect human rights, but Switzerland also don't respect.

Mr Ho
07-04-20, 12:50
When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.

I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.

Polyamorist
07-04-20, 14:39
Salaam Master Monger.

I see you are a fan of the Philippines. So am I (well, used to be).



The top billionaires in the US made almost a $1 Trillion dollars from the stock market after the panicked US middle classed population sold their plummeting stocks during the beginning of Covid-19 in the US. A few days later when the billionaires realized covid-19 was a big scam they bought the middle class' stock and made almost a $1 Trillion among them in total when the stock quickly recovered.
You make some good points. Another interesting thing: if you look at the Zoom stock chart, you see it first started really jumping at the beginning of February. Clearly there were people that knew what was going to was going to happen long before the public was alerted in the media (early March). I also happen to know that many companies were on a quiet hiring freeze in February despite high stocks and a seemingly booming economy. Yeah, they knew.

For history buffs, there were also some very weird stock movements before the 9/11 attacks: https://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/24/gen.europe.shortselling/index.html.

As usual, when these disasters occur it is difficult for us regular grunts to know how much was conspiracy and how much opportunism. The media is definitely underreporting. Only now and again do you get a good journalist like Matt Taibbi who blows the lid off things like the 2008 super-scam.

One thing that is clear though is that there are powerful forces who are using the pandemic to push agendas which have little to do with our health. For example, making small businesses bankrupt via lockdown. Pushing down wages in larger companies using the atmosphere of generalized fear. And phone tracing and requiring IDs in sex clubs. What a great blackmailing database could be compiled with that! Edward Snowden is a great resource to learn about these dangers:

https://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-coronavirus-surveillance-new-powers-2020-3

The Cane
07-04-20, 16:57
When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.

I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.I will definitely take a flu shot this year (I don't always get one every year), but I won't rush out and take a new COVID-19 vaccine. I'm concerned about how fast such a vaccine might come to market, glossing past standard safety and efficacy trials. I'll let somebody else take such a vaccine first and see what happens. In the meantime, I'll continue to be cautious otherwise by avoiding large gatherings, social distancing, wearing a mask, etc. I wish this thing would just vanish though! That's one thing I do agree with Trump on. I mean, I want some pretty girl butt hole!

Sirioja
07-04-20, 17:25
When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.

I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.I won't take rushing vaccine which may be dangerous or with some problems for health. I always try to avoid medicines, I prefer to train my body to fight, trusting my health, but I don't drink, I don't smoke, I can claim to be fit and sporty as say girls who don t believe my age when touching firm belly, ass.

Paulie97
07-05-20, 02:31
Covid-19, the new pet project for conspiracy theories that for whatever reason thrive on monger boards. All I can figure is that a lot of guys that fall for that stuff also like to pay for sex. But stay tuned for your next episode of Coast to Coast AM, as there's only so many runs you can take at Area 51, Bigfoot, and alien abductions before late night listeners start itching for new material. And course also add the 911 "inside job" conspiracy so alluded to here. It's long been refuted.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/


Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.

The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, about all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19.

The University of Alaska the 26th top rated university in the USA released a report on March 25th 2020 explicitly proving the US government's report "that took 7 years" about how building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed was completely false. That means the US government lied about how the buildings came down on 9/11 2001 and the only way it could have happened was a controlled demolition. Building 7 was the home to CIA black ops and the Secret Service. Nobody heard about this news because COVID-19 miraculously went from 15 cases on February 28 to 70,000 cases by March 25th inundating the media with COVID-19 news.

Just in case a news story that you can verify from a major university doesn't convince you about the government's involvement in 9/11 here are some other facts.

The owner of the World Trade Centers took out an insurance policy for 3. 5 billion dollars covering "terrorist attacks" just a few months before the attacks.

Of the 84 videos capturing the attack on the pentagon on 9/11 only 4 have been released to the public because those 4 don't show the plane. Was there a plane?.

Alessandro527
07-05-20, 07:02
When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.

I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.I will not take it immediately.

I will wait 6 months to see if there are any side effects, after that I will re -consider according to the covid cases.

Pistons
07-05-20, 08:19
Hey there! Obviously we have to live with this member of the corona's family as we have lived with his other brothers, like mers or sars. Everything seems to indicate that this virus could be weakening in Europe and other places and we may not have such an aggressive second wave next fall or winter. Additionally, we will have a vaccine, from Oxford, that seems effective and will give confidence, especially when we travel. Sure, this is an optimistic view. I prefer to wait until the end of the year to make travel plans, being September as key month to know if our plans are moving well or if we have to continue postponing them for a while.The Oxford vaccine is among thr vaccines targetting a part of the virus that makes it also target human cells so that we get a whopping 79% chance of bad life long side effects! Enjoy those if you want, I will not!

- There are thousands of mutations of Covid-19 already, and most are probably less deadly than what they had in Italy at first, but most likely, most probably, most of these mutations still have the Ace2 receptor, and also the FURIN cleavage. Thus causing a high, or I might say, near perfect transmittance rate between humans. Tailor made in a petri dish to do such a thing. And that is where they differ from SARS or MERS. Not that I am ruling out SARS or MERS also being results of petri dish mutations, but they did not have the FURIN cleavage. Which is the de facto proof any sane person, or judge should look at. But imagine if the rest of the Covid-19 virus also mutates into something as deadly as MERS. 30-35% Then what?

Master Monger
07-05-20, 13:51
Covid-19, the new pet project for conspiracy theories that for whatever reason thrive on monger boards. All I can figure is that a lot of guys that fall for that stuff also like to pay for sex.There are only three explanations for guys like you, you either work for someone benefiting from COVID-19, or you are benefiting from it or you have been sufficiently brainwashed.

I stated "facts" not theories, if you can disprove the facts I presented the US government will probably give you a lot of money and you will be their newest spin doctor. Until you can disprove the facts I presented your argument involves using the trigger word "conspiracy theory". This word triggers an immediate response to not believe anything said after it, this is brainwashing and if you don't believe me, look it up.

Let me give you an example, if there was factual evidence against you in a court case and you either lied or refused to explain this evidence you would be convicted no matter how many times you told the judge and jury it is all just a conspiracy.

In what logical world does a society ignore facts when presented with the words "conspiracy theory"? The only society that would do such a foolish thing is a society that has already been brainwashed.

Please rely on facts and figures that are current and don't reference things from the past that have now been clearly disproven. You can also take your information and sue the University of Alaska in court if you can prove they are wrong. Good Luck! Be smart and do more research about the world.

Oh, one last thing, guys who pay for sex are the most intelligent people in the world, we get all the enjoyment with none of the headaches.

Mtraveller
07-05-20, 15:38
I previously talked about how South Korea and Switzerland had handled the pandemic comparatively well. But I would also like to salute Taiwan. They always had strained relations with China, so they did not believe the lies coming out at the beginning of the year, and took swift action. The result?

Total deaths: 7.

Active cases: 4.

Recoveries: 438.

Also a shout-out to Sweden, which received harsh criticism for not implementing a lockdown. Yesterday, it recorded zero deaths from COVID-19 on that day. The US had 671.At risk of destroying your view of the world. Sweden does not report Corona number on weekends. Maybe this accounts for "a day without a single death". Otherwise Sweden is now the worst hit country in Europe per capita death rate).

Turgid
07-05-20, 16:21
I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969. I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades. These viruses last for two or three years.

When covid-19 first became notorious in March and April people were scared as it was new and reactions were frantic. Over time people will become more accustomed to it, adjust and accept it and will be less concerned even though they will take necessary precautions. I think that by the second half of 2021 things will be back to normal and we will be enjoying our favorite FKKs like we were in 2019.

Sirioja
07-05-20, 16:50
I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969. I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades. These viruses last for two or three years.

When covid-19 first became notorious in March and April people were scared as it was new and reactions were frantic. Over time people will become more accustomed to it, adjust and accept it and will be less concerned even though they will take necessary precautions. I think that by the second half of 2021 things will be back to normal and we will be enjoying our favorite FKKs like we were in 2019.Already more than 500 000 deaths, US are more than 130 000 and can't really know about without healthcare insurance and illegals, and not finished yet. Germany, UK, Portugal, Spain and Italy, have to confine again. Brazil is in trouble, we can't trust China. Unfortunately, not finished yet and wait and see in Autumn or Winter.

Downandup
07-05-20, 17:43
I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades.That is very negative, there are currently 140 vaccines in development for Wuhan Flu so there is a good chance that one might work, so far there has been good early results coming out of the trials of the first two to have reached phase three testing. This is a virus that has brought the world to a halt, no wonder billions of dollars are being spent to find a solution. Vaccine development normally takes decades as it's a slow and costly process but this time great efforts are being made to get something quickly.

Blue Swede
07-05-20, 19:21
At risk of destroying your view of the world. Sweden does not report Corona number on weekends. Maybe this accounts for "a day without a single death". Otherwise Sweden is now the worst hit country in Europe per capita death rate).Belgium, UK, spain and Italy are still higher in the death / capita than Sweden.

Sweden, and other countries, reports deaths weekdays, up to a week delayed, so comparing one single day is no reliable method.

McAdonis
07-05-20, 21:58
In the meantime, I'll continue to be cautious otherwise by avoiding large gatherings, social distancing, wearing a mask, etc. I wish this thing would just vanish though! That's one thing I do agree with Trump on. I mean, I want some pretty girl butt hole!Does this mean that you have not mongered since lockdown? Not even locally? Majority of your monger-brethren on ISG believe the coronavirus is overblown or the risk-reward ratio is acceptable to them given the low death rate.

Amongst European-based mongers I have spoken with, there exist three categories: (1) zero mongering since lockdown, (2) mongering but only private meetups at hotels, (3) already back in the clubs. The second category is of particular interest, because some men are seeing ex-FKK WGs as incall and outcall at a starting price of 150 EUR per hour. If / when the German clubs reopen and those same WGs return to the clubs, will the men that saw them outside the club revert to 100 EUR per hour pricing?

SeaShark
07-06-20, 00:43
This site says something different.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries.


Belgium, UK, spain and Italy are still higher in the death / capita than Sweden.

Sweden, and other countries, reports deaths weekdays, up to a week delayed, so comparing one single day is no reliable method.

SeaShark
07-06-20, 00:48
Please don't consider my previous message.

I've read data wrongly.

Rocky V
07-06-20, 01:22
I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969. I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades. They managed to develop the vaccine for SARS coronavirus almost 20 years ago, but the virus disappeared shortly before it went to market.

McAdonis
07-06-20, 01:59
I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969.According to this article, public health authorities took a more casual approach to the 1968 flu.


He reasoned that 'death was a bigger and more accepted part of daily American life' in the 1960s. WWII and the Korean War wasn't too far gone in the rear view mirror before America found themselves again involved in another deadly conflict in Vietnam. Polio haunted people until a vaccine was developed in the mid-1950s, and in 1957 the world was plagued by another pandemic, the H2N2 'Asian Flu' which killed 1 million people globally.
Also CV-19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu:


Dr. David Morens, a senior adviser at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases described the H3N2 pandemic as 'wimpy' to Snopes.com. 'Its not comparable in a lot of ways but particularly in its mortality. Its also not comparable in the effects of what would happen if you just let it go.'

'Coronavirus and the H3N2 flu are absolutely not interchangeable' said Dr. Monto. 'Its like comparing apples and oranges.' Monto explains that even though the H3N2 virus was highly contagious, some of the population had been bolstered by residual immunity that was leftover from the from the previous H2N2 pandemic in 1957.

Furthermore, a vaccine for a Hong Kong flu was developed right away even though it took a while to get it mass produced and distributed. 'The variable in this pandemic is that we don't have a vaccine yet. We're making it from scratch, we have no experience with a coronavirus,' explained Dr. Monto to DailyMail.com.
As you said, there were no lockdowns for the Hong Kong flu and 1 M died. Perhaps had there been global lockdown only 100 K would have died. With social distancing and global lockdown, CV-19 death count will most certainly exceed 1 M. If zero social distancing and no lockdown, who knows how high that figure might be. So we are not able to make an apples to apples comparison, because the politicians in 1968 and 2020 took drastically different approaches.

Blue Swede
07-06-20, 05:21
Please don't consider my previous message.

I've read data wrongly.You sure have. But, it really doesn't matter if Sweden is on place 5, 7 or 1, the situation has been severe here, no doubt about that.

It will be very interesting to hear the aftermath for sure!

Mr Ho
07-06-20, 10:06
I think I will wait a bit too. I do not drink or smoke cigarette, but there are many reliable report that one drink of alcohol per day is actually really good for your longevity and arteries.

Pistons
07-06-20, 10:18
That is very negative, there are currently 140 vaccines in development for Wuhan Flu so there is a good chance that one might work, so far there has been good early results coming out of the trials of the first two to have reached phase three testing. This is a virus that has brought the world to a halt, no wonder billions of dollars are being spent to find a solution. Vaccine development normally takes decades as it's a slow and costly process but this time great efforts are being made to get something quickly.Making a vaccine that work is not the hard part. The hard part is making a vaccine that both works, and has 0 bad side effects. An impossibility in our case here.

Pistons
07-06-20, 10:27
According to this article, public health authorities took a more casual approach to the 1968 flu.

Also CV-19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu:

As you said, there were no lockdowns for the Hong Kong flu and 1 M died. Perhaps had there been global lockdown only 100 K would have died. With social distancing and global lockdown, CV-19 death count will most certainly exceed 1 M. If zero social distancing and no lockdown, who knows how high that figure might be. So we are not able to make an apples to apples comparison, because the politicians in 1968 and 2020 took drastically different approaches.COVID-19 has most certainly both exceeded 1 and 2 million deaths by now. Easy calculations will land you at those numbers. And that is a low estimate. As many as 4-5 million might have already died.

Take Africa for example, the health system there is not functional, but among the 0.01 % that gets tested, there are still tens of thousands, or hundred thousand infected.

India has a semi functional health system. Maybe they catch 3-4% of everyone. Certainly less than 5%.

We can also safely say China is lying about the numbers there. Just taking death urns at the morgues, and then multiplying it up. The Hong Kong scientist had calculated 1.3 million in Hubei province alot had gotten the virus. And comparing that to the Wuhan morgue urns at the start of the pandemic, we can safely say about 50 000 has died in Wuhan, and 60-100 000 in all of Hubei. And that is just one vjinese province. Although most likely the worst hit by far.

Then you have the slums in Bangladesh where it spreads like wildfire. The favelas in Brazil where hardly any medical personell enters and people die at home.

Vietnam has reported 0 deaths. Yet I personally know one Vietnamese in Ho Chi Minh City who claims his friends dad died from it.

Etc etc etc.

Master Monger
07-06-20, 17:26
COVID-19 has most certainly both exceeded 1 and 2 million deaths by now. Easy calculations will land you at those numbers. And that is a low estimate. As many as 4-5 million might have already died.COVID-19 gives governments power and money, the rich and powerful don't care about COVID-19 either because no matter what you need to pay rent and eat. Most people agree they are overestimating the numbers. The reason being a person who tested positive for COVID-19 but dies from pneumonia is still counted as a COVID-19 death.

Here are the numbers:

Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.

The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, as pertaining to all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19. If you call their 800 number they will insist on you listening to the disclaimer before they tell you any numbers.

COVID-19 numbers are much lower than the normal numbers for influenza and pneumonia. Covid-19 "supposedly has caused 500,000 deaths worldwide in the last 7 months but 99.5% of the victims have been old or have underlying health conditions while influenza and pneumonia cause about 8,000,000 deaths a year and about 30% of the people who die are young and healthy!

COVID-19 primarily affects those aged 60 and above or those who have underlying health issues.

https://covid19info.live/

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/

McAdonis
07-06-20, 17:48
Some European mongers have told me "I saved so much money from not mongering during the lockdown, so overspending a little as the clubs and economy opens back up is no big deal". The European employment system subsidized 40 million EU citizens, many receiving 60-90 percent of their pay for sitting at home and doing nothing or barely working, for three months. Despite the higher levels of taxation, is such a system designed to handle that many people claiming unemployment subsidies at the same time and for such a long duration? What happens if a second wave results in a second lockdown? I could be just pessimistic, but people are already declaring victory on this, when it might not be over.

Master Monger
07-06-20, 17:57
As you said, there were no lockdowns for the Hong Kong flu and 1 M died. Perhaps had there been global lockdown only 100 K would have died. With social distancing and global lockdown, CV-19 death count will most certainly exceed 1 M. If zero social distancing and no lockdown, who knows how high that figure might be. So we are not able to make an apples to apples comparison, because the politicians in 1968 and 2020 took drastically different approaches.The world population is 7.7 billion people so of course almost 60 million people die every year, that is more than 160,000 a day. We should not alter our lives to save. 01% of the population especially when concerning COVID-19 which almost exclusively only affects elderly and people who have underlying health problems, they could easily die for numerous reasons. Telling the elderly and unhealthy people to be precautions is OK, maybe checking the health on a daily basis of anyone coming in contact with the elderly and unhealthy population is also a good idea.

Anything else is just not logical. The whole world is so afraid of death that logic goes out the window!

This needs to end, I thought for sure the UV-see radiation caused by the sun over the summer would snuff it out just like it does every year, but no they keep it going and now I am angry! You should be too! Our rights are being infringed upon, if you are scared you can stay home!

Turgid
07-06-20, 20:09
That is very negative, there are currently 140 vaccines in development for Wuhan Flu so there is a good chance that one might work, so far there has been good early results coming out of the trials of the first two to have reached phase three testing. This is a virus that has brought the world to a halt, no wonder billions of dollars are being spent to find a solution. Vaccine development normally takes decades as it's a slow and costly process but this time great efforts are being made to get something quickly.It is not negative, a little pessimistic perhaps but pessimism based on analysis of facts. An example of negativity is if someone says that he does not want a vaccine to be developed.

The Cane
07-06-20, 20:31
Does this mean that you have not mongered since lockdown? Not even locally? Majority of your monger-brethren on ISG believe the coronavirus is overblown or the risk-reward ratio is acceptable to them given the low death rate.

Amongst European-based mongers I have spoken with, there exist three categories: (1) zero mongering since lockdown, (2) mongering but only private meetups at hotels, (3) already back in the clubs. The second category is of particular interest, because some men are seeing ex-FKK WGs as incall and outcall at a starting price of 150 EUR per hour. If / when the German clubs reopen and those same WGs return to the clubs, will the men that saw them outside the club revert to 100 EUR per hour pricing?That is correct. I have not mongered since lockdown. In fact, I have not mongered since before lockdown. I monger exclusively abroad, and since I have not been able to travel abroad, no mongering for me can be had. The thing is, and as I have noted before, I decided in early 2019 that I wanted to take 2020 off. After a decade and a half of steady mongering, I felt like I needed to take a break. So, I guess I could not have chosen a better year to do that. It's just that if you can have it but decide you don't want it, that's one thing. But when all of a sudden you can't have it even if you wanted it, well then psychologically that's another thing LOL!

Your comment about pricing is quite interesting and worrying. I don't know about those guys who have been paying 150 per hour, but I intend to go back to pre-lockdown prices. That said, what if the clubs that survive this believe they need to raise prices in order to remain sustainable as going concerns? Then what? I mean I was already paying in the neighborhood of 300 euros per hour with anal and BBBJ / CIM included in that. Go above that, and I feel that it's just greed and trying to extract too much from a monger. Get too greedy, and some will begin to balk. At the same time, I fear that so many guys are so "thirsty" for some FKK pussy that they would cave and pay an inflated price just to get back into the clubs.

Pessimist
07-06-20, 20:34
Some European mongers have told me "I saved so much money from not mongering during the lockdown, so overspending a little as the clubs and economy opens back up is no big deal". The European employment system subsidized 40 million EU citizens, many receiving 60-90 percent of their pay for sitting at home and doing nothing or barely working, for three months. Despite the higher levels of taxation, is such a system designed to handle that many people claiming unemployment subsidies at the same time and for such a long duration? What happens if a second wave results in a second lockdown? I could be just pessimistic, but people are already declaring victory on this, when it might not be over.My employment or pay were not impacted by the pandemic / lock down. This was generally true for many white collar employees in the US. As such, no change in the income levels. But for me personally, mongering spend in total has never been more than a small fraction of net worth even if I aggregated my cumulative mongering spend in my life. I am generally quite careful how much I spend. Mongering or otherwise. So, the lack of spend on mongering does not make any difference to my well being one way or other. What did make a massive difference was the gyration in the stock market and what I did with regards to my portfolio allocations in response to those changes. I will not be able to disclose those changes for privacy reasons. For example: If I had sold my stocks in mid February and stayed in cash, I would be roughly where I was earlier in the year (plus some amount of accumulated salary minus living expenses). If I had sold at the bottom in March, I would be down substantially and licking my wounds. If I had not sold any and in addition invested any surplus cash into the stocks at the bottom of the market in March, I would be strutting around because my net worth would be at all time highs. Again, which of these, or a combination of these happened to me is something I will not disclose but in general those decisions make a far more meaningful impact on my life than any putative changes in salary and lack of mongering spend. Speaking of which, I have been avoiding even my sugar babes locally. It does not make sense to me to avoid clubs but see tutes / escorts / sugar babes during this period. You always run the chance of catching the virus in each encounter, and it can be mighty unpleasant from multiple angles, not the least of which is that I am also married and have other considerations. SO there.

As for the spending by various governments. None have been as profligate as US. We are lucky that dollar is so strong. No other country can do a stimulus this massive and get away with minimal impact on currency. But now, our debt is astronomically high. Same / similar situation in multiple countries around the world, more or less. If ever interest rates normalize to historical levels, these governments would be needing to keep allocating a huge amount of annual budget to interest payments alone. So, they are in a bind. They have to make their central banks less independent, and keep purchasing own debt through central banks just to keep going. It is very much akin to digging deeper when you are in a hole and trying to get out. Till now, American employees collectively have bene just fine due to the massive stimulus you mentioned. Fed figures show the collective paycheck (including salaries and Federal transfer payments) for the country is higher now than it was pre pandemic, which is very weird. But this is set to run out in a few weeks unless they do a second round of stimulus. Will they do it? Does the government have the money? They did not really have any money for the first round either. Of course, they can always print more dollars. As I said, we are lucky because US is able to print money out of thin air and not suffer the consequences (for now).

Mursenary
07-06-20, 21:01
I'm not sure that you understand the concept of "cause of death. " When someone has HIV, the virus does not kill them per se but rather leads to a compromised immune system where some other system becomes compromised due to a secondary infection. When someone has the flu, the virus does not kill them but rather leads to a systemic response or secondary infection. Cause of death would eventually be some sort of respiratory failure. Same with COVID 19. Saying that people aren't dying of COVID but rather pneumonia shows a lack of understanding of how your body and disease works. Understanding what pneumonia is and the fact that it is a reactive process caused by viruses, bacteria, or other microbes would be a good start to educating yourself before making your assertions.

Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.

It's not as simple a matter as you make it out to be.


COVID-19 gives governments power and money, the rich and powerful don't care about COVID-19 either because no matter what you need to pay rent and eat. Most people agree they are overestimating the numbers. The reason being a person who tested positive for COVID-19 but dies from pneumonia is still counted as a COVID-19 death.

Here are the numbers:

Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.

The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, as pertaining to all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19. If you call their 800 number they will insist on you listening to the disclaimer before they tell you any numbers.

Rocky V
07-06-20, 21:09
Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia. That's because Covid-19 causes pneumonia in serious cases. This is a serious disease and you should not underestimate it. Unless you want to be this guy: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-denier-die-from-covid/.

The Cane
07-06-20, 21:35
What did make a massive difference was the gyration in the stock market and what I did with regards to my portfolio allocations in response to those changes. I will not be able to disclose those changes for privacy reasons. For example: If I had sold my stocks in mid February and stayed in cash, I would be roughly where I was earlier in the year (plus some amount of accumulated salary minus living expenses). If I had sold at the bottom in March, I would be down substantially and licking my wounds. If I had not sold any and in addition invested any surplus cash into the stocks at the bottom of the market in March, I would be strutting around because my net worth would be at all time highs. Again, which of these, or a combination of these happened to me is something I will not disclose but in general those decisions make a far more meaningful impact on my life than any putative changes in salary and lack of mongering spend.I don't know why you feel you can't discuss what you did. Well when I think about it, maybe I can think of some reasons. Anyway, your choice. I ramped up and substantially increased my investments in stocks when the market bottomed out, and now I have more money than I have ever had in my entire life. But I'm not strutting around though. It's more like wiping my brow with a "whew"! Because in the beginning I lost a lot of money. But I didn't panic and stuck with basic principles. Buy low! That's what I did (a lot), and I was handsomely rewarded for it. Now I'm totally bearish as there is simply just too much uncertainty in the world today. I'm more than happy for the rest of this year with the big gains I have already realized in 2020. I have done quite well in very scary times. Again, I'm not strutting. It's more like thanking my lucky stars!

Pistons
07-06-20, 22:39
Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.

But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe!

Adindas
07-06-20, 22:59
When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.

I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.

Pessimist
07-07-20, 00:24
COVID-19 has most certainly both exceeded 1 and 2 million deaths by now. Easy calculations will land you at those numbers. And that is a low estimate. As many as 4-5 million might have already died.

Take Africa for example, the health system there is not functional, but among the 0.01 % that gets tested, there are still tens of thousands, or hundred thousand infected.

India has a semi functional health system. Maybe they catch 3-4% of everyone. Certainly less than 5%.

We can also safely say China is lying about the numbers there. Just taking death urns at the morgues, and then multiplying it up. The Hong Kong scientist had calculated 1.3 million in Hubei province alot had gotten the virus. And comparing that to the Wuhan morgue urns at the start of the pandemic, we can safely say about 50 000 has died in Wuhan, and 60-100 000 in all of Hubei. And that is just one vjinese province. Although most likely the worst hit by far..I agree death counts are understated and can believe 1 to 2 mil. Not sure if 4 mil is believable. That implies 7 additional deaths for every reported death. There have been anecdotal reports of overflowing funeral houses etc here and there in Italy, in NYC, Brazil most certainly, Russia a little bit and of late in Mumbai and Delhi to some extent. Only in Brazil, Ecuador and LatAm one got the suspicion that death counts are perhaps severely understated and even there, not sure it was by 8 x.

But I am fully in agreement that infection counts are hugely understated in many developing countries that you included in your comment.

I think the demographic in these countries tends to be young and perhaps there may be other immunity benefits at work that we don't understand yet. Either way, I think infections are probably understated by orders of magnitude in many countries and death count by some amount.

Master Monger
07-07-20, 00:33
Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.That is not true sir, COVID-19 affecting young or healthy people is an anomaly and it could just be they were not as healthy as they thought. Also, any virus or disease that attacks ACE2 receptors can cause organ damage to anyone with weak or compromised immune systems or a weak or damaged organ that is not a special feature of COVID-19. Go do some research and you will learn that is true.

Of course I understand that according to their logic that if COVID-19 weakened the immune system to a point that it could not handle the constant invasion of billions of germs we face every second of our lives and they contracted pneumonia as a result, then COVID-19 is still considered the root cause or a multiple cause of death.

Let me explain why that is bad! You could cut your finger and the infection it causes could easily lower your immune system to a point where pneumonia could take hold, although trauma should be reported the root cause in this sometimes it is still reported as pneumonia. Usually as stated in any document written about COVID-19 you need to already have a weak immune system or an underlying problem before anything else can happen because in most cases your immune system is easily able to wipe out COVID-19. Breathing with a Paper cloth mask on greatly increases your chance of developing pneumonia and brain deficiencies because you are rebreathing CO2 and not getting enough clean oxygen to kill the germs in your lungs or feed your brain fresh oxygen so it can produce ozone in the brain to heal itself. Oxygen is the most miraculous element on the planet and oxygen combined with the right green leafy vegetables and 120 minutes of exercise a week especially jumping on a trampoline for 15 minutes a day can make your immune system super human and the trampoline will activate your lymphatic system. For people who do this everyday, even the once dreaded HIV is not really a problem unless you put too much bad stuff in your body like Sugar, Drugs, Alcohol, and tobacco.

Now if you are reporting pneumonia and influenza deaths as COVID-19 deaths and we look at the numbers last year and 60,000 died from influenza and 40,000 died from pneumonia and this year pneumonia and influenza deaths are way down then how can we determine the actual threat caused by COVID-19. Now if you read some of the other posts I have posted you would know that almost 80% of the deaths reported in New York State in the last 120 days have been COVID-19 related. Also the Doctors are now being allowed to fill out the death certificates completely and sign them themselves. We know hospitals get paid for each reported case, each respirator case, and each death. New York has 32,000 COVID-19 deaths which is equal to 40 of the other 49 states combined. New York only has 6% of the US population but they have 24% of the deaths and the other 52% of total deaths is among only 9 states The final 24% is spread among 40 states. Many states went out of lockdown months ago.

So, unless you can find something that factually says Covid-19 "will" "not can or could" cause long term organ damage then there is no threat from COVID-19 to people with strong immune systems. If you are old are weak you can take precautions but I recommend a spit guard or an actually non-cloth mask that allows you to breath fresh oxygen.

Please do research! We need to draw a line in the sand and make our governments aware this will not be tolerated. If not, what is coming in the future will be much worse. The minute we accept quarantining and marshal law as the norm we have already become slaves. Now, if in the future a virus comes along and kills more than 1% of the world population or 78,000,000 people then we can talk about possible quarantines as long as every victim's name is made public for verification. 132,000 people supposedly dead in America but I don't know one and I don't know anybody who knows one.

Master Monger
07-07-20, 00:43
Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.

But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe!That is so funny, you don't agree with facts. You can look up those facts, most of them came straight from the CDC website. It is funny how they tell you one thing in the title and then tell you whole truth when you read the whole story. Math is your friend, the virus is only spreading in the states the governor's want it to spread in, considering 76% of all the deaths are only in 10 states. Instead of believing what you think you know spend some time to verify it. If any one can prove my facts wrong, I would be delighted!

Have a wonderful day!

Tuber19
07-07-20, 02:59
I decided in early 2019 that I wanted to take 2020 off. After a decade and a half of steady mongering, I felt like I needed to take a break. So, I guess I could not have chosen a better year to do that. It's just that if you can have it but decide you don't want it, that's one thing. But when all of a sudden you can't have it even if you wanted it, well then psychologically that's another thing LOL!

.I'm on the same boat, last trip 5 days at Sharks was on late February 2020 , I made my mind that next visit will be October / November 2020.

But all of sudden i feel now that I want to go As soon as possible, and I guess its the idea of ((deciding not to go VS can't go even if you want)) is the major motive for my feelings.

Hope this pandemic will END soon, with a vaccine hopefully.

Mr Ho
07-07-20, 05:20
I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.I went to Globe in Jan and Feb this year, so I may wait until next year when corona is more calm? I have done it this year, so why for me to risk my lung etc.

I think it is more travelling that is dangerous than actual mongering, train, airplane, airport, hotel restaurants, restaurants etc.

The truth is, we all have to live with covid 19 because we cannot stop economy anymore or people will die more with other causes.

Sirioja
07-07-20, 07:13
That's because Covid-19 causes pneumonia in serious cases. This is a serious disease and you should not underestimate it. Unless you want to be this guy: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-denier-die-from-covid/.Yes covid attack lungs for most. Only few died from kind of organism infection from reaction to virus.

Sirioja
07-07-20, 07:52
Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.

But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe!Not only for record for deaths, but also since 4 months soon and still spreading and even under high heat in southern states, but did You hear them claiming they are stronger than virus, when they have so many obese, diabetic and poor which is kind of disease versus this virus, even poor Africa which have ancestors manage much better. I think this virus show what they are, with a really crazy Trump which give a really bad image. Of course, I follow You about China which is a danger for our health safety for me and when I see about Hong Kong. I know G7 countries are in own trouble, but I m surprised no reaction versus China. I m also a bit surprised about Germany being in trouble after confined, because when I stopped on first time to take gas on my way to Zurich, woman on desk, even with glass on desk, told me: German law is to put on mask in shops, now I put, I see everybody putting on when entering, nevertheless even with brothels still closed, they have some places in trouble. On Saturday morning, returning from Switzerland, it was real German invasion in France, for their holidays, looking for our sun, good point for our tourism, when we don t manage so bad to control our R0 after end of confined, except in Guyane but close to Brazil. Official figures at the moment tell about 500 000 deaths, for sure we know China with less than 5000 are far below truth, when US claim they have less for real than their own figures, but they don t know much for around 50 millions people living in their country. Maybe truth is more around close to 1 million and not finished when we see Brazil, India, still US after 4 months, Pekin Beijing.

Mursenary
07-07-20, 09:44
Anyone notice that there has been a huge spike in cases in Romania throughout June? Their numbers have always been low but the trend is concerning since they're starting to come back to work.

HammerTime96
07-07-20, 10:00
I live in Belgium and I'm frequently in Germany for business, when I used to combine business with pleasure and make a quick visit of an FKK. Trough Asian colleagues, I found out soon about the "Wuhan virus" (as it was known then) and in January I made my last visit to Sharks.

Every time since reopening the border I'm in Germany, I get nostalgic and I get that weird, lonely and horny feeling in my stomach when I get see "Darmstadt" on the roadsigns in the recent months, and I remember the good times I had there. I'm sort of curious to make a small trip to check it out, but I know I can also save myself the fuel, because deep inside I know it will be closed and empty.

Judging from the Germans I talk to, many expect a second wave in the Autumn, and I doubt the clubs will be able to open this year. According to my German colleagues, although Germany is slowly opening up, many restrictions are still in effect, such as registering when visiting a gym (physical activity, like sex) and 1,5 m distancing. Some of my German colleagues practice judo / boxing and those classes are still cancelled, or are limited to only body weight exercises like push ups, squats, burpees etc, all 3 m apart! (during sports, the minimum distance is increased to 3 m).

I also hope things will open up soon because I desperately need a sexual release, but not because of a vaccine as this will involve totalitarian measures like government tracking apps on your phone, with blackmail potential, but because people have finally come to their senses.

Yes, this is an unknown virus and yes I understand we should treated it with caution in the beginning. Nevertheless, IMHO we have to start seeing things in a realistic perspective again.

Despite all the millions of cases, none of my friends, relatives, colleagues knows anyone who has caught CV19 yet, all of us had the 'flu' during the last 6-7 months, and for the overwhelming majority the symptoms are very mild and even non-symptomatic. Some people die of the normal flu every year. Why didn't we shut down the entire world for that? Some people die of bee-stings every year, why is there no lockdown for that? People die in car crashes, so why not shut down all roads?

It's time to become realistic and start using common sense again: protect the vulnerable (old) people with weak immune systems and underlying health issues, but allow the rest of the world to live our lives without mandatory vaccines and mandatory tracking apps!

Mr Ho
07-07-20, 12:46
I'm on the same boat, last trip 5 days at Sharks was on late February 2020 , I made my mind that next visit will be October / November 2020.

But all of sudden i feel now that I want to go As soon as possible, and I guess its the idea of ((deciding not to go VS can't go even if you want)) is the major motive for my feelings.

Hope this pandemic will END soon, with a vaccine hopefully.You had similar schedule to me and similar schedule on mind, but for me, I did my 2020 mongering in early Feb., so I wait until next year when corona is over. Most likely, I be in FKK next year toward the end of year, if corona is over.

I think, there is no need to risk your health to monger.

Mursenary
07-07-20, 13:22
Yet for some reason, death rate in the US is not even the highest. Look at those terrible health care countries that have higher death rates per population: France, Belgium, Sweden, UK, Italy, Spain, etc. They really should work on their healthcare systems.


Not only for record for deaths, but also since 4 months soon and still spreading and even under high heat in southern states, but did You hear them claiming they are stronger than virus, when they have so many obese, diabetic and poor which is kind of disease versus this virus, even poor Africa which have ancestors manage much better. I think this virus show what they are, with a really crazy Trump which give a really bad image.

BigBuddy69
07-07-20, 13:39
Especially the mental health care, we have terrible cases of mental disorders in France. Guys with very restricted interests or repetitive behavior patterns.

Turgid
07-07-20, 14:54
I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.So you will wait until you take jab from the State before you jab girls.

Ssseeking
07-07-20, 15:20
Yet for some reason, death rate in the US is not even the highest. Look at those terrible health care countries that have higher death rates per population: France, Belgium, Sweden, UK, Italy, Spain, etc. They really should work on their healthcare systems.Death rate high does not mean bad health care. Most of these countries have high life expectancy. There are within top 30 and better than US. So more old people more death and that messes up the overall ratio.

McGrath
07-07-20, 15:47
Anyone notice that there has been a huge spike in cases in Romania throughout June? Their numbers have always been low but the trend is concerning since they're starting to come back to work.Yes I have noticed. It's a spike in Moldavia too. Makes me more reluctant to go if the clubs open up even though not all girls have been back home. For example Ester, Denisa and Serena seems to be on a little tour round South Hessen.

Rocky V
07-07-20, 19:33
Yet for some reason, death rate in the US is not even the highest. Look at those terrible health care countries that have higher death rates per population: France, Belgium, Sweden, UK, Italy, Spain, etc. They really should work on their healthcare systems.That's not the correct information to estimate death rate because of Covid19. In Belgium, for example, they include as Covid19 deaths even those that are simply suspected to have been caused bby Covid19. The only way to verify the death rate due to Covid is to look at excess deaths for each country compared to the previous two years. Based on the correct data, UK has the highest death rate in the world at the moment.

Master Monger
07-07-20, 20:12
Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.That is not true sir, COVID-19 affecting young or healthy people is an anomaly and it could just be they were not as healthy as they thought. Also, Any virus or disease that attacks ACE2 receptors can cause organ damage to anyone with weak or compromised immune systems or a weak or damaged organ that is not a special feature of COVID-19. Go do some research and you will learn that is true.

Of course I understand that according to their logic that if COVID-19 weakened the immune system to a point that it could not handle the constant invasion of billions of germs we face every second of our lives, then COVID-19 is considered the root cause or a multiple cause of death.

Let me explain why that is bad! You could cut your finger and the infection it causes could easily lower your immune system to a point where pneumonia could take hold, although trauma should be reported the root cause in this sometimes it is still reported as pneumonia. Usually as stated in any document written about COVID-19 you need to already have a weak immune system or an underlying problem before anything else can happen because in most cases your immune system is easily able to wipe out COVID-19. Breathing with a Paper cloth mask on greatly increases your chance of developing pneumonia and brain deficiencies because you are rebreathing CO2 and not getting enough clean oxygen to kill the germs in your lungs or feed your brain fresh oxygen so it can produce ozone in the brain to heal itself. Oxygen is the most miraculous element on the planet and oxygen combined with the right green leafy vegetables and 120 minutes of exercise a week especially jumping on a trampoline for 15 minutes a day can make your immune system super human and the trampoline will activate your lymphatic system. For people who do this everyday, even the once dreaded HIV is not really a problem unless you put too much bad stuff in your body like Sugar, Drugs, Alcohol, and tobacco.

Now if you are reporting pneumonia and influenza deaths as COVID-19 deaths and we look at the numbers last year and 60,000 died from influenza and 40,000 died from pneumonia and this year pneumonia and influenza deaths are way down then how can we determine the actual threat caused by COVID-19. Now if you read some of the other posts I have posted you would know that almost 80% of the deaths reported in New York State in the last 120 days have been COVID-19 related. Also the Doctors are now being allowed to fill out the death certificates completely and sign them themselves. We know hospitals get paid for each reported case, each respirator case, and each death. New York has 32,000 COVID-19 deaths which is equal to 40 of the other 49 states combined. New York only has 6% of the US population but they have 24% of the deaths and the other 52% of total deaths is among only 9 states The final 24% is spread among 40 states. Many states went out of lockdown months ago.

So, unless you can find something that factually says Covid-19 "will" "not can or could" cause long term organ damage then there is no threat from COVID-19 to people with strong immune systems. If you are old are weak you can take precautions but I recommend a spit guard or an actually non-cloth mask that allows you to breath fresh oxygen.

Please do research! We need to draw a line in the sand and make our governments aware this will not be tolerated. If not, what is coming in the future will be much worse. The minute we accept quarantining and marshal law as the norm we have already become slaves. Now, if in the future a virus comes along and kills more than 1% of the world population or 78,000,000 people then we can talk about possible quarantines as long as every victim's name is made public for verification. 132,000 people supposedly dead in America but I don't know one and I don't know anybody who knows one.

McAdonis
07-07-20, 20:32
Your comment about pricing is quite interesting and worrying. I don't know about those guys who have been paying 150 per hour, but I intend to go back to pre-lockdown prices. That said, what if the clubs that survive this believe they need to raise prices in order to remain sustainable as going concerns?Back in 2016, I knew a German WG who advertised on Kaufmich for 150 per hour. I noticed that she would work in the clubs for 100 per hour. And she jumped back and forth between the two formats before finally settling back in the clubs permanently. My guess is at the 150 per hour price point, she received much less volume, so at least on a per day basis the FKK clubs were more lucrative.

But in July 2020, I am not sure if those conditions still hold true. I suspect ex-FKK WGs can charge 150 per hour as privates and still get brisk volume, allowing them to make just as much if not more than when they worked the FKK clubs. It is currently a seller's market. There are not many cheaper alternatives. The FKK clubs where men could readily find sex for 100 EUR per hour remain closed (unless one is willing to drive to NL). Additionally, there is less supply in Frankfurt because many WGs have still not returned to DE.

McAdonis
07-07-20, 20:45
Of course, they can always print more dollars. As I said, we are lucky because US is able to print money out of thin air and not suffer the consequences (for now).Okay sounds like you are saying the massive stimulus is artificially propping up the finances of the average American. What happens when they pull the plug on that? Civil unrest? If yes, that would affect the portfolios of the white collar Americans as well, right? As I said, 40 million Europeans received economic assistance, so Europeans have not suffered any consequences (so far). I am waiting for someone to chime in to reassure me otherwise.


I ramped up and substantially increased my investments in stocks when the market bottomed out, and now I have more money than I have ever had in my entire life. But I'm not strutting around though. It's more like wiping my brow with a "whew"! Because in the beginning I lost a lot of money. But I didn't panic and stuck with basic principles. Buy low! That's what I did (a lot), and I was handsomely rewarded for it. Now I'm totally bearish as there is simply just too much uncertainty in the world today. I'm more than happy for the rest of this year with the big gains I have already realized in 2020. I have done quite well in very scary times. Again, I'm not strutting. It's more like thanking my lucky stars!Will you move your gains to safer investments? Or risk them getting erased in 2021? Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. But regarding your point about "uncertainty in the world", I do not know if that luck continues. Like you said once before, the global economy is interconnected, if the economies of EU, USA, or China crash, they bring everyone else down with them.

McAdonis
07-07-20, 20:52
Anyone notice that there has been a huge spike in cases in Romania throughout June? Their numbers have always been low but the trend is concerning since they're starting to come back to work.A large percentage of the 1500 infected meat plant workers in NRW were Romanian. Also many Romanian migrant workers are seasonal farm workers. This video shows four of them sleeping in a tiny container: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187.

JohnReter335
07-07-20, 21:48
A large percentage of the 1500 infected meat plant workers in NRW were Romanian. Also many Romanian migrant workers are seasonal farm workers. This video shows four of them sleeping in a tiny container: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187.This is sad but the video is not opening.

Mursenary
07-07-20, 22:22
Death rate high does not mean bad health care. Most of these countries have high life expectancy. There are within top 30 and better than US. So more old people more death and that messes up the overall ratio.It was more of a tongue in cheek retort to another post.

But anyway, Life expectancy factors in traumatic death such as motor vehicle accidents and violence. America has arguably the largest car culture and we all know about the gun culture, our traumatic deaths are much higher, bring down the average. Unfortunately, so is suicide.

COVID deaths on the other hand shows a more direct snapshot of acute to advanced emergent medical care. And in this case, US death rates are consistently better than the western European counterparts despite the high rate of comorbidities. The prevalence of the comorbidities is perhaps why our healthcare providers are doing a better job in this crisis. Public health policy is a whole other matter in which the US has failed miserably.

The Cane
07-07-20, 22:35
Will you move your gains to safer investments? Or risk them getting erased in 2021? Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. But regarding your point about "uncertainty in the world", I do not know if that luck continues. Like you said once before, the global economy is interconnected, if the economies of EU, USA, or China crash, they bring everyone else down with them.I have already moved into safer investments, and it's there I intend to remain until I feel comfortable with taking more risk. And what with a pandemic, an economic recession, social strife, and uncertainty around our upcoming election in November, that won't be anytime soon. We could even get hit with a devastating hurricane this year. Who knows? Not to mention what might happen in other countries that could impact the States too. No, I'm not willing to see my 2020 gains wiped out, and I will proceed with maximum caution to ensure that does not happen. And don't forget that the other shoe hasn't fallen yet with respect to the American economy. What I mean is that the government can't keep spending trillions to prop everything up. That's unsustainable.

And when the spending stops, then comes the defaults, the bankruptcies, the evictions, and failed businesses. We have yet to go through that pain yet, and believe me that in the United States it's eventually going to come. Combine all that with an expected strong return of the virus when the winter season arrives, and I don't have faith that from now into early 2021 is going to be a pretty sight to behold. Right now, I'm a "financial bear" looking for the right time to come out of hibernation and invest in reasonably riskier assets again that offer a real prospect for greater returns. One thing that could turn the tide is if a safe and effective vaccine becomes available. We shall see. In the meantime, I'm on the sidelines and out of the riskier stuff!

Mursenary
07-07-20, 22:43
Too much to unpack here as it was a small novella posted to a message board. I can say that the pathophysiology here shows a rudimentary, surface level familiarity of COVID, perhaps googled, but also shows a complete lack of understanding of the disease process. It sounds akin to the statements I made as a pre-med undergraduate student. I. e. Statement about CO2 retention and cloth masks and HIV lifestyle recommendation.

I'm not sure where you got the information that young people being sick is an anomaly but that is hardly the case anymore. I suppose that may depend on your definition of young but for the purpose of this board, I don't think discussing young 20-39 year olds has much relevance. The average age in my completely full 24 bed ICU unit just dropped to under 55. The regular medical wards have seen a spike in 40 something year olds requiring less invasive respiratory therapies.

We are getting better at treating this thing so in combination with the average younger age of those infected, death rates will decline but pulmonary alveolar damage in your 30's and 40's and myocardial cell death is irreversible. Survivors will live with compromised heart function in addition to lung damage. Quality of life and life expectancy will decline. Your young people thesis does a public health disservice.


That is not true sir, COVID-19 affecting young or healthy people is an anomaly and it could just be they were not as healthy as they thought. Also, Any virus or disease that attacks ACE2 receptors can cause organ damage to anyone with weak or compromised immune systems or a weak or damaged organ that is not a special feature of COVID-19. Go do some research and you will learn that is true.


Please do research! We need to draw a line in the sand and make our governments aware this will not be tolerated. If not, what is coming in the future will be much worse. The minute we accept quarantining and marshal law as the norm we have already become slaves. Now, if in the future a virus comes along and kills more than 1% of the world population or 78,000,000 people then we can talk about possible quarantines as long as every victim's name is made public for verification. 132,000 people supposedly dead in America but I don't know one and I don't know anybody who knows one.

Mursenary
07-07-20, 23:05
That's not the correct information to estimate death rate because of Covid19. In Belgium, for example, they include as Covid19 deaths even those that are simply suspected to have been caused bby Covid19. The only way to verify the death rate due to Covid is to look at excess deaths for each country compared to the previous two years. Based on the correct data, UK has the highest death rate in the world at the moment.You make a good point about excess deaths and true death rates. Considering those numbers should give pause to making concrete assertions; however, the excess death rates in the US has not been higher in comparison to western european nations, although the data is incomplete. Some comparisons below, with NYC being the only comparison point, but if skewed, only favors undercounting in America.

Side note, like Belgium, US also counts non-confirmed persons of interest as covid deaths if the covid test was negative or pending but medical workup was otherwise consistent with covid disease processes.

Mursenary
07-07-20, 23:30
Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. But regarding your point about "uncertainty in the world", I do not know if that luck continues. Like you said once before, the global economy is interconnected, if the economies of EU, USA, or China crash, they bring everyone else down with them.I suspect the answer to this depends on your industry and your investment positions as I don't think that there will be an equal crash across the board like in 2000 or 2008. If your financial livelihood depends on the financial sector, real estate, service, or other brick and mortar leisure industries, you might be in for some tough times.

STEM fields will see an accelerated boost as will any industry that has or is able to quickly develop a strong virtual presence. E-commerce, E-entertainment, E-anything has already seen a huge boost and there is no reason to think that would change, the world was already headed that way pre-covid. Healthcare and education are at their watershed points, not that education had a huge private sector market share, but there might be a market grab coming up. Somehow renewable energy has maintained momentum despite decrease demands. I suspect that they're operating out of funds from pre-covid grants and contracts.

ExpatLover
07-08-20, 02:14
Replay from EL: there is a alternative staying far away from all the P6, they are all manipulating us, starting from WHO, this sick is aggressive, better to limit to the minimum all the social contacts as long the things are not under serious control.

Pessimist
07-08-20, 03:26
Okay sounds like you are saying the massive stimulus is artificially propping up the finances of the average American. What happens when they pull the plug on that? Civil unrest? If yes, that would affect the portfolios of the white collar Americans as well, right? As I said, 40 million Europeans received economic assistance, so Europeans have not suffered any consequences (so far). I am waiting for someone to chime in to reassure me otherwise..We have to wait and see. Of course the US government can keep spending more money on stimulus until the economy mends itself. Herd immunity or a vaccine or something else. And this stimulus could be funded by Fed. The thing is that US has an independent currency; for good or bad, US dollar generally becomes stronger during times of global economic distress.

I think European countries have less fiscal flexibility because they do not have their own currency (those in Eurozone). ECB has done LTRO operations and other bond purchases in the past but in general, European countries do not want ECB to monetize individual countries debt too much. Germany or NED or Austria don't want to be responsible for the debt of Spain or Italy or Portugal. So, I think if this drags on for too long, Europe would have less flexibility to support their population with government spending I think. But in general Europe has much better control on the virus outbreak than we do and I don't think they need to support their people to the same extent we have to. We already spent several trillion dollars in the last few months. I don't think Europe spent as much money.

Normally if a country spends as much as US is, and it has an independent convertible currency, FX should be crashing by now. Dollar is not crashing because we are living in a world of beggar thy neighbor. Every government has been reckless and profligate.

Kuni042
07-08-20, 13:17
Is it really a seller's market? Because so far I was not acting as a buyer. Grin - were you? - I can imagine that there are not many buyers out there for three main reasons:

A) many fear loosing their job- lots are aleady in "Kurzarbeit" - a model that allows you to stay employed, while making only 60% of the money.

B) many fear a covid-infection. We should realize that the risks are a bit unknowsn.

C) it is *illegal* in Germany right now.


.... It is currently a seller's market. There are not many cheaper alternatives. The FKK clubs where men could readily find sex for 100 EUR per hour remain closed (unless one is willing to drive to NL). Additionally, there is less supply in Frankfurt because many WGs have still not returned to DE.

Pistons
07-08-20, 16:42
Is it really a seller's market? Because so far I was not acting as a buyer. Grin - were you? - I can imagine that there are not many buyers out there for three main reasons:

A) many fear loosing their job- lots are aleady in "Kurzarbeit" - a model that allows you to stay employed, while making only 60% of the money.

B) many fear a covid-infection. We should realize that the risks are a bit unknowsn.

C) it is *illegal* in Germany right now.Yeah, I'd have to agree. Given the circumstances, it is most likely leaning heavily towards a buyers market right now. Hopefully that won't harm recruitment too much though.

Pistons
07-08-20, 16:46
One thing I have to add here is that even if the covid-19 virus is around, the mutations are not as bad right now. So attaining a mild version of it at the moment might even be smart long term to build up that T-cell production for your immune system. Much better to get it now than when a more dangerous version of the virus mutates, and then you don't have any form of defences in terms of T-cells.

Kartoffel
07-08-20, 20:10
One thing I have to add here is that even if the covid-19 virus is around, the mutations are not as bad right now. So attaining a mild version of it at the moment might even be smart long term to build up that T-cell production for your immune system. Much better to get it now than when a more dangerous version of the virus mutates, and then you don't have any form of defences in terms of T-cells.Seriously, what do you know.

Pessimist
07-08-20, 20:11
Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. .The real question, is the monger's spending decision based on fluctuations in net worth or is it based on net income changes?

Say, if you have 5 million stashed away; whether the $5 M became $5.5 M or $4.5 M in the course of last few months (a loss or gain of $500 K, which to most people is quite substantial), the monger is still able to spend at the same level as he used to. Even if the fluctuation is larger, say a million bucks, he still has the ability to spend at the same levels as before (I. E. A few thousand dollars per trip to Germany). His networth fluctuations *may* impact him psychologically and he may be elated to depressed (or stoic, depending on his personality), but just from a pure financial angle, there is no discernible change in his ability to spend.

If the monger's networth is say, $100 K, then it is a different matter. If the amount fluctuates by the same percent as above, I. E. 10%, he could be at $90 K or $110 K, but either way it is not meaningful. Even if the fluctuation is 20% as in the example above, $80 K is not that much different from $120 K. In this situation, the spending intent could be driven much more by salary and the sustainability of salary. Even if the current job is safe till now, due to pandemic fear he may be scared that he could lose his job, that his next job may take a few months to find; uncertainty about the salary amount in future also plays a role.

These are two extreme examples, but then again they may not be. Even more extreme: what if someone had $10 M to start with? What if someone has no savings whatsoever and all his mongering spend comes out of monthly salary and if he has no job then he cannot monger?

Also, does he have other issues? People with a family could have completely different calculations (desire to leave most of networth to children, secure their long term future etc), but the guy also may have a paycheck from spouse he can count on even if loses his job. Or some men may not be currently married but still paying alimony and child support in which case they are doubly screwed. Not only there is no cushion of having a spousal paycheck, they are also on the hook to pay out money from their past savings even if they lose their own current job.

I would think most of the Americans who fly out regularly to monger in Europe (I. E. Not those who use a tute once or twice if they happen to be in Europe, but those who regularly fly to Europe mainly for the purpose of having paid sex) are generally well off. I. E. Networth exceeding at least half a mil. If someone has no savings cushion whatsoever, and still travels to Europe regularly for sex, he is spending mainly out of monthly paycheck, which seems crazy to me. He runs the risk of not having any fallback cushion if his job / comp takes a dive. Unless the man is making high six figures salary; but that begs the question why he has no savings / networth to start with?

Pessimist
07-08-20, 20:15
One thing I have to add here is that even if the covid-19 virus is around, the mutations are not as bad right now. So attaining a mild version of it at the moment might even be smart long term to build up that T-cell production for your immune system. Much better to get it now than when a more dangerous version of the virus mutates, and then you don't have any form of defences in terms of T-cells."the mutations are not as bad right now".

Are you talking specifically today, as opposed to 3 months ago? In the US, clearly fatality rates have declined but that is also because younger people are infected more these days and also some people think death tolls could spike in the next few weeks as death is a lagging indicator and we did see infections counts spike up in the last month.

Or are you saying that this in general has been a mild virus and fatality rate is less than 1% and hence we would want to get it now? In that case, do you think fatality rate goes up to 2% or 3% in future?

Many people, from Bill Gates and others, have said fatality is going to be slightly less than 1% from the very initial stages of this outbreak and so far it seems they are on the mark.

McAdonis
07-08-20, 22:09
Is it really a seller's market? Because so far I was not acting as a buyer. Grin - were you? - I can imagine that there are not many buyers out there for three main reasons:

A) many fear loosing their job- lots are aleady in "Kurzarbeit" - a model that allows you to stay employed, while making only 60% of the money.

B) many fear a covid-infection. We should realize that the risks are a bit unknowsn.

C) it is *illegal* in Germany right now.I will amend my statement, it is a sellers market for some WGs, particularly the ones who are of interest to the ISGer audience. I believe a "princess" at Sharks (someone who is in the top ten percent of earners), if she stays in the Frankfurt area while the FKK clubs remain closed, her current earnings probably exceed her old Sharks earnings. In other words, if she got on average six one hour bookings at 100 EUR per hour at Sharks, she is able to get at least four one hour bookings at 150 EUR per hour via incall / outcall. Why? Because I believe such a WG would be popular amongst Sharks customers who are local to Frankfurt area. If I am a Sharks regular, and I see a Sharks WG on KM, even if she is a WG I never sessioned with, I would consider booking her. At least I know what I am getting, because I would have seen her in person or I would have heard about her service. Kaufmich and Ladies is much more a roll of the dice. Too many fake photos.

RE: Kurzarbeit. How many in German received this? One in ten workers. Would they be high earners or minimum wage? If minimum wage, I would assume that they would not be the type to attend Sharks, not regularly anyway.

RE: Health concerns. I agree many are playing it safe. But as the pandemic lasts longer, I think some men are reasoning that it is okay to see one or two WGs and just 3-4 sessions a month, seeing it is a calculated risk. In any case, it is safer than going to club with 100 mongers and 30 WGs, where the volume of social and sexual interactions is significantly higher.

SaratogaX
07-08-20, 22:39
How many of you know someone who got this virus and what were their experiences like?

Tia.

McAdonis
07-08-20, 22:44
The real question, is the monger's spending decision based on fluctuations in net worth or is it based on net income changes?

People with a family could have completely different calculations (desire to leave most of networth to children, secure their long term future etc), but the guy also may have a paycheck from spouse he can count on even if loses his job.

I would think most of the Americans who fly out regularly to monger in Europe (I. E. Not those who use a tute once or twice if they happen to be in Europe, but those who regularly fly to Europe mainly for the purpose of having paid sex) are generally well off. I. E. Networth exceeding at least half a mil.If someone has no savings cushion whatsoever, and still travels to Europe regularly for sex, he is spending mainly out of monthly paycheck, which seems crazy to me. He runs the risk of not having any fallback cushion if his job / comp takes a dive. Unless the man is making high six figures salary; but that begs the question why he has no savings / networth to start with?I don't disagree with what you said, but some mongers just have more of a "live for today" mindset, so they do not seem to be too concerned with having a savings cushion or a retirement egg. Let's take two mongers, both single with no kids, both with net worth of $500 K and annual salary of $100 K. One monger is 35 yo and the other is 55 yo. Going off just these descriptors, I believe the 55 yo is going to splurge more on mongering. There are a variety or reasons why someone might not be overly focused on their long term financial horizon. Compared to the 35 yo monger, the following is more likely to be true for the 55 yo monger: (1) suffering from depression or loneliness (2) poor health or belief that they might not be alive (or sexually virile) much longer, (3) soon receive an inheritance from a dying parent, (4) lower chance of getting a moderately attractive 30 yo GF in real life. This is why some WGs will prey on certain mongers who they believe to be more vulnerable. If your window of hope is rapidly diminishing, burning through cash at an accelerated rate on a vice is one way to make yourself feel better.

McAdonis
07-08-20, 23:12
US dollar generally becomes stronger during times of global economic distress.
I suspect the answer to this depends on your industry and your investment positions as I don't think that there will be an equal crash across the board like in 2000 or 2008.I believe both of the above assertions are true given current conditions, but my fears are more dire. If mass political or civil unrest ensues, it could challenge or upend both statements.


"Is the US headed for another civil war? In a word, yes."

Professor Goldstone is a leading authority on the study of revolutions and long-term social change at George Mason University. The model developed by him and Peter Turchin tracks such data as the ratio of median workers' wages to GDP per capita, life expectancy, average heights, and the number of new millionaires. It also measures political polarisation or the degree of overlap between the parties.

Ten years ago, Professor Turchin pointed his model towards the future, and made an uncannily accurate prediction. Just like in the 1850s, crisis indicators were rising, he wrote in the journal Nature. They could be a reliable indicator of looming instability and "look set to peak in the years around 2020," he wrote.

It came down to population changes, Professor Goldstone argued. The American population surged after World War II the Boomer generation born in a time of relative peace and plenty. As this massive cohort aged and accrued wealth, they could make the country vulnerable to political crisis. But this would only happen, he wrote, if the elites did three things: tighten up the path to mobility to favour themselves and their children (like increasing the cost of university); dampen wage growth and claim a greater share of economic gains for themselves; and resist taxation so that government is starved of needed revenues.

Professor Goldstone predicts the real problems will begin after July 31, when Americans' $600 a week COVID-19 unemployment welfare expires.

"Social tensions likely continue to grow as we move to November," he said..I am by no means an expert on revolutions and social and civil unrest, but I believe two necessary ingredients are (1) economic hardship / inequality and (2) "bulge" in young population. I believe in 2020 we definitely have the former.

Original 2010 paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a.

Master Monger
07-08-20, 23:50
Statement about CO2 retention and cloth masks and HIV lifestyle recommendation.

I'm not sure where you got the information that young people being sick is an anomaly but that is hardly the case anymore. I suppose that may depend on your definition of young but for the purpose of this board, I don't think discussing young 20-39 year olds has much relevance. The average age in my completely full 24 bed ICU unit just dropped to under 55. The regular medical wards have seen a spike in 40 something year olds requiring less invasive respiratory therapies.

We are getting better at treating this thing so in combination with the average younger age of those infected, death rates will decline but pulmonary alveolar damage in your 30's and 40's and myocardial cell death is irreversible. Survivors will live with compromised heart function in addition to lung damage. Quality of life and life expectancy will decline. Your young people thesis does a public health disservice.First of all, Stanford University has proven there is anywhere from a 5-20% reduction in Oxygen while wearing a mask depending on how hard you are breathing. While most CO2 will pass through the mask there is a suction caused by the mask that happens right before you stop exhaling and start inhaling that sucks back in a lot more CO2 than if you are not wearing a mask.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/14/stanford-researchers-reengineer-covid-19-face-masks/

You are a doctor so you probably think you are more intelligent than the people at Stanford. You probably went to Harvard. You seem intelligent to me with all those big fancy words you like to use, although I haven't ever met an intelligent doctor in my life in person, so far that is.

I have been to 56 different countries, and have 7,000 Facebook friends, 4500 WeChat Friends, 2000 Line friends, and about 1000 WhatsApp friends, and also a few hundred LinkedIn friends but I have never met an intelligent doctor. I even sold doctors the Medical Version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking back in the late 90's early 2000's. I must have met at least 30,000 doctors over the course of 8 years. I sold them that software for $499, that cost me $80 OEM. Just to be fair, I never met a Harvard doctor, probably because they are too intelligent to pay $499 for single use software.

As far as HIV, what is the latest medical theory? Oh yes, I remember, it can lay dormant in your system for 10 to 20 years before it ever affects you (that isn't HIV, it is old age). Oh my, the medical industry and condom companies really think "we the people" are so very, very stupid. Although, if it is real and you do get it, there is bone marrow transplant cures and new drug cured a guy in S„o Paulo. Then there is the medication that can be bought for as little as $5 a day in certain countries that can give you 30 years of normal livin'.

I will agree with your number of 55 as being old. I will admit to being stupid myself if you can prove that more than 5% of the severely sick and dead COVID-19 patients are below the age of 55 and were in good health before they contracted COVID-19. Good luck with that, I am not worried. I am assuming that 5% is a low enough percentage to be considered an anomaly.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex.

Treatment, are you serious? The massive increase of UV radiation from the sun that doesn't need direct contact during the summer solstice is the biggest treatment. That combined with the humidity and warm temperatures of summer are the only thing treating the COVID-19 patients. The respirator might keep them alive but if you need a respirator your future, even if you do survive, will be bleak.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/leaked-government-report-shows-sunlight-destroys-coronavirus/ar-BB12Qql7

Lastly, as far as the survivors of COVID-19, please tell me the name of just one patient that you spoke the words to: "You will have long term compromised heart function and lung damage solely due to COVID-19. I then, will represent them in a lawsuit against you and your hospital, because there is no way you can prove that statement about "severe" cases of COVID-19 much less the other 99% of the mild cases.

These are not my opinions or my "thesis", these are facts!

The dark ages of relying on doctors for good medical advice are over after years of doctors changing their minds about what is good for you just so they can line their own pockets!

For a few trillion dollars, what do you think your government would be willing to lie to you about?

160,000 People die every day and if we stop living just because of 530,000 elderly and unhealthy deaths caused by COVID-19 then we might as well join them.

Educate yourself and then educate others with facts not opinions! Stop reading the headlines and find the truth in the stories. Look to the Universities for the truth, they are not controlled like the media. Almost every ground breaking discovery comes from universities where the students are not afraid to challenge the norm.

As a reward for reading this far let me share some life changing facts with you!

Seawater Electrolysis where the chlorine is safely and cheaply filtered is real and has been proven for over 2 years. This means, almost free, completely sustainable electric power and fuel from seawater harvested hydrogen, will be available forever! This process will also cause more rain and fill the rivers and lakes with pure fresh water.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360319918304993

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-closer-sustainable-energy-seawater.html

New Oxygen and Ozone discoveries about healing and their relationship to space and time are being made every day.

CRISPR modifications can eliminate viruses with as little as $100 cost. They say it is a moral issue but for $100, it beats dying. Many people have already had their pain signals CRISPRed off, so they will never experience pain again.

https://www.wired.com/story/could-crispr-be-the-next-virus-killer/

Scarcity of anything important is a myth! Overpopulation is a myth for at least 10,000 years, ever heard of skyscraper farms!

The only thing that isn't a myth is government corruption that is paid for by the 1000 people who control everything on the planet. 1000 people against 7. 8 billion and we are afraid? That is also a brainwashed response we have to all the stories we have heard and movies we have watched.

You think this is about Covid-19, but it is not. This is a test to see how easily we are manipulated. Limiting international travel hasn't been done in years and there is not enough evidence to support this action now!

I don't want anyone to die, boosting your immune system is your best bet against fighting viruses. If you are 55 or older or if you have underlying health issues then you need to understand COVID-19 might be dangerous for you. Especially if you are an enemy of the state, haha.

For those of us who aren't 55 or older and are still healthy enough to bang 3 girls day, we ask you kindly please open the frickin' borders so we can die between the legs of a beautiful young lady exactly the way GOD intended!

If you are still not on board with educating yourself about the truth of Covid-19, then do it save some people from committing suicide because of the COVID-19 lockdowns. Lost jobs, stress from isolation, no money for bills and food have all resulted in hundreds of thousands of people worldwide giving up by taking their own lives. Many people are on the brink right now with the CDC reporting they get more suicide calls everyday than COVID-19 calls.

Pessimist
07-09-20, 04:25
I believe both of the above assertions are true given current conditions, but my fears are more dire. If mass political or civil unrest ensues, it could challenge or upend both statements.

I am by no means an expert on revolutions and social and civil unrest, but I believe two necessary ingredients are (1) economic hardship / inequality and (2) "bulge" in young population. I believe in 2020 we definitely have the former.

Original 2010 paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a.I thought I answered your question. No, social unrest is not necessarily a guaranteed outcome in US. In fact, I would be surprised if it came to that near term. At least not directly due to pandemic. The point is, US government can keep borrowing from the market and keep spending vast sums of money to support its citizens through these tough times, until the virus subsides and economy stabilizes. That is not something every government in every country can, because (a) some countries do not have their own currencies and cannot borrow unlimited amounts of money as the US does (b) those that do have their own currencies, say India or Brazil or Russia, cannot borrow endless amounts of money to subsidize their citizens because their currencies will crash. In that sense, US is in a unique situation.

There could potentially be unrest in US because we seem to be a polarized society to some extent. But I think the media hypes up the degree of this polarization. So, I am not expecting a French Revolution in US anytime soon. But then again, a revolution by definition is a very fast rate of change and very very few people have the ability to foresee it, especially the timing of it with any accuracy.

Pessimist
07-09-20, 04:29
I don't disagree with what you said, but some mongers just have more of a "live for today" mindset, so they do not seem to be too concerned with having a savings cushion or a retirement egg. Let's take two mongers, both single with no kids, both with net worth of $500 K and annual salary of $100 K. One monger is 35 yo and the other is 55 yo. Going off just these descriptors, I believe the 55 yo is going to splurge more on mongering. There are a variety or reasons why someone might not be overly focused on their long term financial horizon. Compared to the 35 yo monger, the following is more likely to be true for the 55 yo monger: (1) suffering from depression or loneliness (2) poor health or belief that they might not be alive (or sexually virile) much longer, (3) soon receive an inheritance from a dying parent, (4) lower chance of getting a moderately attractive 30 yo GF in real life. This is why some WGs will prey on certain mongers who they believe to be more vulnerable. If your window of hope is rapidly diminishing, burning through cash at an accelerated rate on a vice is one way to make yourself feel better.You may well be right, I simply have no feel for them. Fact of the matter is, I am not single and my mindset is very different, and I am in the accumulation mode. At some point in life, perhaps in retirement, I will be living off savings and my mindset will be different then perhaps. But for now, I can't even understand how to think like either person in the above scenarios.

Mursenary
07-09-20, 10:47
TLDR. Too Long, did not read in entirety.

Key point worth clarifying, study quoted was regarding N95 masks, a special mask used specifically for aerosol particles, not common everyday surgical or face coverings recommended to the public. To put in perspective, proper use of those N95 masks require annual fit-testing and requires the user to be clean shaven for them to be effective.

30,000 doctors over 8 years amounts to 10 doctors per day. I don't think I meet 10 new people per day. That is quite the feat.


First of all, Stanford University has proven there is anywhere from a 5-20% reduction in Oxygen while wearing a mask depending on how hard you are breathing. While most CO2 will pass through the mask there is a suction caused by the mask that happens right before you stop exhaling and start inhaling that sucks back in a lot more CO2 than if you are not wearing a mask.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/14/stanford-researchers-reengineer-covid-19-face-masks/

You are a doctor so you probably think you are more intelligent than the people at Stanford. You probably went to Harvard. You seem intelligent to me with all those big fancy words you like to use, although I haven't ever met an intelligent doctor in my life in person, so far that is.

I have been to 56 different countries, and have 7,000 Facebook friends, 4500 WeChat Friends, 2000 Line friends, and about 1000 WhatsApp friends, and also a few hundred LinkedIn friends but I have never met an intelligent doctor. I even sold doctors the Medical Version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking back in the late 90's early 2000's. I must have met at least 30,000 doctors over the course of 8 years. I sold them that software for $499, that cost me $80 OEM. Just to be fair, I never met a Harvard doctor, probably because they are too intelligent to pay $499 for single use software.

HammerTime96
07-09-20, 14:50
I was in Germany yesterday for business and I'm happy to report that things are SLOWLY returning back to normal.

Instead of visiting Sharks after my meetings, I went to have a small bite to eat in a nearby town and restaurants and shops are quite full again and many people are sitting outside on terrases.

It's a true pity that clubs with a big outside area (Sharks, GT, Oase) are not allowed to open, because it seems that outside in the fresh air there is a very small chance of catching CV19. What concerns me is when the weather cools down again in September-October, the spread of CV19 will increase again because people are forced inside. Unlike the US, not many houses and businesses in Europe have air conditioning, and I wonder if HVAC systems are spreading CV19.

I remember my last visit to Sharks in January, and the air inside was really bad as always. Furthermore, the hygiene has been going downhill at Sharks for many years; dirty toilets with faces stains on the dividing walls, no soap in the dispensers, no paper towels to dry hands, dirty floors, and dirty / hot rooms. Just imagine how much dirt and how many bacteria are living inside the carpet in the main area, because this has not been replaced or cleaned in years.

Although line up was not fantastic at end of January, I really miss many beauties from Sharks and I hope it will reopen soon!

Turgid
07-09-20, 15:56
I thought I answered your question. No, social unrest is not necessarily a guaranteed outcome in US. In fact, I would be surprised if it came to that near term. At least not directly due to pandemic. The point is, US government can keep borrowing from the market and keep spending vast sums of money to support its citizens through these tough times, until the virus subsides and economy stabilizes. That is not something every government in every country can, because (a) some countries do not have their own currencies and cannot borrow unlimited amounts of money as the US does (b) those that do have their own currencies, say India or Brazil or Russia, cannot borrow endless amounts of money to subsidize their citizens because their currencies will crash. In that sense, US is in a unique situation.

There could potentially be unrest in US because we seem to be a polarized society to some extent. But I think the media hypes up the degree of this polarization. So, I am not expecting a French Revolution in US anytime soon. But then again, a revolution by definition is a very fast rate of change and very very few people have the ability to foresee it, especially the timing of it with any accuracy.Remember the 1920's Weimar Republic, Germany when one had to walk with a wheel barrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread or recently in Zimbabwe when a can of beans cost a million Zimbabwe dollars. That's what happens when a country tries to print money to save its flagging economy and such increase in cash is not related to the production of goods. Well the US has shipped production to other countries, mostly China, but has been printing trillions of dollars not related to production, multiples what was done in the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe. However, the economy has not crashed. Why is that? Because the US dollar is the world reserve currency which is backed up by its military. Let any country try to opt out of doing its trade in US dollars and it would face its wrath. That is why the US attacked Iraq and Afghanistan and is taking action against Iran and Venezuela. China and Russia have been making noise about not using the US dollar and the US is taking appropriate action against them. The US economy is propped up by its military prowess.

Adindas
07-09-20, 17:31
So you will wait until you take jab from the State before you jab girls.That is the idea, LOL.

Keep in mind these girls have seen many people in a days. The chance that she will get infected from other people are very high. You will not have fun to "jab" the girl if you still worry to get infected.

Adindas
07-09-20, 17:35
That's not the correct information to estimate death rate because of Covid19. In Belgium, for example, they include as Covid19 deaths even those that are simply suspected to have been caused bby Covid19. The only way to verify the death rate due to Covid is to look at excess deaths for each country compared to the previous two years. Based on the correct data, UK has the highest death rate in the world at the moment.
Keep in mind there are various method to calculate the death rate due to COVID-19. The UK seems high becuase it includes people in care home. Keep in mind thousand death in care home on daily basis already exist far beyond the COVID-19 pandemic.

Sirioja
07-09-20, 19:02
First of all, Stanford University has proven there is anywhere from a 5-20% reduction in Oxygen while wearing a mask depending on how hard you are breathing. While most CO2 will pass through the mask there is a suction caused by the mask that happens right before you stop exhaling and start inhaling that sucks back in a lot more CO2 than if you are not wearing a mask.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/14/stanford-researchers-reengineer-covid-19-face-masks/

You are a doctor so you probably think you are more intelligent than the people at Stanford. You probably went to Harvard. You seem intelligent to me with all those big fancy words you like to use, although I haven't ever met an intelligent doctor in my life in person, so far that is.

I have been to 56 different countries, and have 7,000 Facebook friends, 4500 WeChat Friends, 2000 Line friends, and about 1000 WhatsApp friends, and also a few hundred LinkedIn friends but I have never met an intelligent doctor. I even sold doctors the Medical Version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking back in the late 90's early 2000's. I must have met at least 30,000 doctors over the course of 8 years. I sold them that software for $499, that cost me $80 OEM. Just to be fair, I never met a Harvard doctor, probably because they are too intelligent to pay $499 for single use software.

As far as HIV, what is the latest medical theory? Oh yes, I remember, it can lay dormant in your system for 10 to 20 years before it ever affects you (that isn't HIV, it is old age).You have 15000 friends on face de bouc or other sm? Did you ever see them? Are you sure they are what they claim to be? For me, same like in brothels where all guys are businessman, but when Germany will stay closed, they don t go to more expensive Switzerland.

Pistons
07-09-20, 19:43
Seriously, what do you know.My comment was mainly based on two assessments:

1. There are clear indications that even though the production of antibodies an individual produces after having received the virus is negliable for most, the production of T-cells seem far more promising. And some smaller sampling show that this is in fact creating some sort of protection against future corona viruses.

2. Historically there has been far deadlier corona viruses around than covid-19. The problem with covid-19 however is the Ace2 receptor and the FURIN cleavage. At least the last of which is added in a lab. And so it spreads far quicker than any former corona viruses among the human populace.

Pistons
07-09-20, 19:49
Here is a well written blog post written on it:

https://www.virology.ws/2020/05/14/sars-cov-2-furin-cleavage-site-revisited/

Seems MERS did have a cleavage site, but not an RRAR, like the covid-19 has, which is the most effective one.

Kartoffel
07-09-20, 19:53
You have 15000 friends on face de bouc or other sm? Did you ever see them? Are you sure they are what they claim to be? For me, same like in brothels where all guys are businessman, but when Germany will stay closed, they don t go to more expensive Switzerland.Why do you feel to be provocative? This period is difficult and some need to work with very little free time!

Pessimist
07-09-20, 20:04
Remember the 1920's Weimar Republic, Germany when one had to walk with a wheel barrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread or recently in Zimbabwe when a can of beans cost a million Zimbabwe dollars. That's what happens when a country tries to print money to save its flagging economy and such increase in cash is not related to the production of goods. Well the US has shipped production to other countries, mostly China, but has been printing trillions of dollars not related to production, multiples what was done in the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe. However, the economy has not crashed. Why is that? Because the US dollar is the world reserve currency which is backed up by its military. Let any country try to opt out of doing its trade in US dollars and it would face its wrath. That is why the US attacked Iraq and Afghanistan and is taking action against Iran and Venezuela. China and Russia have been making noise about not using the US dollar and the US is taking appropriate action against them. The US economy is propped up by its military prowess.Weimar is pre Bretton Woods. After Bretton Woods, US de-pegged from gold and from 1960's all the other major currencies began using dollar as the reserve and more or less pegged to US -- not necessarily in terms of a direct exchange peg like HKD or RMB but through dollar as a reserve. Yes, I agree that the US enjoys massive advantage due to its reserve which is what I was saying, but don't agree it is because of our military prowess. It is because the reserve system itself is explicitly built into Bretton Woods. US itself pulled out of Bretton Woods when Nixon was in office, but the reserve system persisted. Remember, after WW2 to 1970's, US was accounting for nearly half of global GDP. So, effectively it was easier for all the other nations in the world to accept US currency as the de facto currency for the world. US is no longer that big but we still account for 25% of global GDP, and much more importantly, there is no alternative. Euro is the main challenger, but it is an amalgam, not of a single country, and there are always questions on how long Euro might last. In 2012-15, during the Greece crisis, some people thought Euro might fall apart, and many Germans would have loved a return to Deutsche mark. China is logically the #2 given it is the second largest economy but RMB is not convertible and no one has much confidence in their economic stats and no one wants to hold vast sums of their currency as reserve. Yen is now too small, given Japan's size.

As for ZImwabwe, yes, precisely. That's what I mean by a country losing discipline and its currency quickly becoming worthless. When a country goes into a death spiral as Zimbabwe did, it is almost impossible to get out of it quickly. So, however painful the economy is, and however tempting, central banks in Brazil / Russia / India / South Africa have to be very careful not to print like crazy. Turkey is one country which seems to be never having any discipline. Hence this year, it lost nearly 20% versus US dollar.

Military prowess is not that huge in this equation. In the cold war period, no one cared about Russian Ruble eventhough RUssia was a huge military power then. Still is. Now, China is a domianting regional military power but again no one wants to hold RMB as a reserve. To the extent RMB is considered for reserve, it is because China is a much bigger economy and more important global economic player, as compared to Russia in the cold war.

Master Monger
07-09-20, 20:10
TLDR. Too Long, did not read in entirety.

Key point worth clarifying, study quoted was regarding N95 masks, a special mask used specifically for aerosol particles, not common everyday surgical or face coverings recommended to the public. To put in perspective, proper use of those N95 masks require annual fit-testing and requires the user to be clean shaven for them to be effective.

30,000 doctors over 8 years amounts to 10 doctors per day. I don't think I meet 10 new people per day. That is quite the feat.I admire your spirit doctor, proven wrong on every front but still willing to retort. I bet you have a little French in you, they never admit defeat even as the walls are burning all around them. I realize you didn't read my whole post so you don't realize you were all wrong, but you did manage to find one possible mistake I made. Or was it a trap.

Unfortunately for you I said nothing about N95 masks, that was only in the article. This next part is going to hurt. The people who control everything want you to wear a mask and stay quarantined so your immune system is shattered when you finally do go outside. They want you to die, old and sick people dying is great for the economy. That and the population is far too big to control at this point. That is why they float overpopulation rumors.

Here are "many" websites that say the all masks reduce oxygen intake and allow you to inhale more CO2. Many of them say it shouldn't be that dangerous to wear a mask but then warn not to wear a mask while driving.

Please read each story fully you will see each one tackling with telling the truth (as they all do a few times in the story) and trying not to piss off the people who own them. Some of these links say "It is unlikely you will experience a problem from wearing a cloth face mask especially if you wear or for a short period of time. " If there is no problem why would the duration matter. The CDC says Don't do any physical activity or wear the mask for prolonged periods of time or if you have trouble breathing. Well golly, I thought it was the same amount of oxygen coming through the mask, why so many restrictions. I can suck on the tailpipe of a car for a short time and not die but that will definitely affect my immune system performance for the next week.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-and-face-masks-to-wear-or-not-to-wear

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/does-wearing-a-face-mask-reduce-oxygen-and-can-it-increase-co2-levels-heres-what-experts-say/ar-BB14356c

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/27/fact-check-ohsa-didnt-say-cloth-masks-offer-no-covid-19-protection/3266817001/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/masks-dangerous-health/

The CDC has most of the real info if you search and you are good at reading graphs because they have been burned by the White House and Congress before and now they practice CYA "cover your ass" protocols.

In 8 years I did more than 200 trade shows and medical conventions. I sold about a 1,000 software suites a year. I figure I am a good at sales so a 25% close rate on 8000 would be about 30,000 doctors who watched my presentation. It's OK, math is tricky devil for doctors if it isn't in CC's.

The reason why doctors have there own code words for measurement is so people can't self medicate. Medicine will soon be a thing of the past anyway. Really, eating the food that contains the things your body needs is the best medicine.

My SM friends I have all added in person, I only add half the people I meet who ask to add them and I would never add a person I didn't know. Not that that makes any difference about anything. You guys keep sleeping and good luck!

Adindas
07-09-20, 20:22
As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.

I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.

The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.


But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?

Mongerer88
07-09-20, 20:45
As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.

I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.

The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.


But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?What if they don't repay the loan? Is the bank going to repossess the property? Whoever moves in will have the same issue that the bank would have if it keeps the property and converts it to a bank branch. Not all the guys will get the memo about the new ownership and new activity. If it is a bank branch now, guys will go to the window of the hottest teller and put 50 euros in the slot. She thinks it is a bank account deposit and he thinks they are going off together to have sex in another room, and it is merely "dress as a hot bank teller" day at the FKK. The language barrier will add to the problems. It will be a disaster, especially if he had decided to remove his clothes after entering the facility and approaching the teller window.

This is not unique to the FKKs. A lot of loans will just go into abeyance because the bank doesn't want to foreclose on the property and try to sell it at its least productive state.

Abox79
07-09-20, 21:16
As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.

I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.

The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.


But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?The popular ones such as Sharks, Oase etc should be able to ride it out given the huge sums they were taking in pre covid19. Not sure about the small ones, depends on the circumstances for each I suppose.

Abox79
07-09-20, 21:25
As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.

I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.

The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.


But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?
As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.

I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.

The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.


But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?The popular ones such as Sharks, Oase etc should be able to ride it out given the huge sums they were taking in pre covid19. Not sure about the small ones, depends on the circumstances for each I suppose.

Sirioja
07-09-20, 21:50
I was in Germany yesterday for business and I'm happy to report that things are SLOWLY returning back to normal.

Instead of visiting Sharks after my meetings, I went to have a small bite to eat in a nearby town and restaurants and shops are quite full again and many people are sitting outside on terrases.

It's a true pity that clubs with a big outside area (Sharks, GT, Oase) are not allowed to open, because it seems that outside in the fresh air there is a very small chance of catching CV19. What concerns me is when the weather cools down again in September-October, the spread of CV19 will increase again because people are forced inside. Unlike the US, not many houses and businesses in Europe have air conditioning, and I wonder if HVAC systems are spreading CV19.

I remember my last visit to Sharks in January, and the air inside was really bad as always. Furthermore, the hygiene has been going downhill at Sharks for many years; dirty toilets with faces stains on the dividing walls, no soap in the dispensers, no paper towels to dry hands, dirty floors, and dirty / hot rooms. Just imagine how much dirt and how many bacteria are living inside the carpet in the main area, because this has not been replaced or cleaned in years.

Although line up was not fantastic at end of January, I really miss many beauties from Sharks and I hope it will reopen soon!Biggest risk to catch is when you have sex with a girl who is fucked by everybody, not when you sleep or play football in the garden.

The Cane
07-09-20, 21:53
This is not unique to the FKKs. A lot of loans will just go into abeyance because the bank doesn't want to foreclose on the property and try to sell it at its least productive state.Yes, I expect that there will be a lot of loan restructuring and refinancing going on. Everybody would benefit in the long run, including the banks.

Sirioja
07-09-20, 21:59
Why do you feel to be provocative? This period is difficult and some need to work with very little free time!Because when you see these guys and their behavior, you know they are not what they claim to be. I tell girls my real job, why? Because I m proud of it, and I never say I m a businessman, which mean nothing for me, when so many fake businessmen in brothels.

Pessimist
07-09-20, 22:59
Because when you see these guys and their behavior, you know they are not what they claim to be. I tell girls my real job, why? Because I m proud of it, and I never say I m a businessman, which mean nothing for me, when so many fake businessmen in brothels.Telling prostitutes in a fuck club that you are a business man is as useful as telling colleagues in a business meeting that you stick your dick inside prostitutes in a fuck club?

Pessimist
07-09-20, 23:07
I was in Germany yesterday for business and I'm happy to report that things are SLOWLY returning back to normal.

Instead of visiting Sharks after my meetings, I went to have a small bite to eat in a nearby town and restaurants and shops are quite full again and many people are sitting outside on terrases.

It's a true pity that clubs with a big outside area (Sharks, GT, Oase) are not allowed to open, because it seems that outside in the fresh air there is a very small chance of catching CV19. What concerns me is when the weather cools down again in September-October, the spread of CV19 will increase again because people are forced inside. Unlike the US, not many houses and businesses in Europe have air conditioning, and I wonder if HVAC systems are spreading CV19.

I remember my last visit to Sharks in January, and the air inside was really bad as always. Furthermore, the hygiene has been going downhill at Sharks for many years; dirty toilets with faces stains on the dividing walls, no soap in the dispensers, no paper towels to dry hands, dirty floors, and dirty / hot rooms. Just imagine how much dirt and how many bacteria are living inside the carpet in the main area, because this has not been replaced or cleaned in years.

Although line up was not fantastic at end of January, I really miss many beauties from Sharks and I hope it will reopen soon!I too was in Sharks early in this year, and while occasionally it gets dirty I don't think it was super bad, nor was it much worse than in years past. In any case, Corona is different from any disease that may be contacted due to unclean ambience. Covid is mostly airborne. If there is no one else in an empty club, even if the club is horribly dirty and stinky, you will not catch Covid; OTOH if they clean the club super squeaky clean and it is packed up with 600 girls and mongers in touching proximity, you run the risk of catching the virus. One single dude transmitted the virus to more than 100 people in Itaewon Korea a few weeks ago.

Pistons
07-10-20, 04:48
Telling prostitutes in a fuck club that you are a business man is as useful as telling colleagues in a business meeting that you stick your dick inside prostitutes in a fuck club?Define 'business man' LOL.

Pistons
07-10-20, 04:49
I am always in the club for business. The real type of business!

Alessandro527
07-10-20, 09:55
I think the smaller ones will survive and not the bigger ones.

Less payroll staff and operating expenses and probably much lower property rent.

Income will be reduced anyway in either big or small clubs so in this case if I was an owner I would prefer to run less expenses.

For clubs like Sharks Oase it will be harder I think.

Adindas
07-10-20, 10:07
I agree with all of you guys. The problem is not unique to FKK, but other business such as pubs, restaurants, leisure centres, high street retailers they are all facing the same problem.

The bank will need to decide whether they will be giving them holidays. But the problem here is that most lenders, especially the small one which is heavily relying on the retail banking are also struggling to survive. The government policy force them to lend unprofitable business. Another issue here with the banks is the interest rate is currently very low which make themselves struggle to survive.

Adindas
07-10-20, 10:09
The popular ones such as Sharks, Oase etc should be able to ride it out given the huge sums they were taking in pre covid19. Not sure about the small ones, depends on the circumstances for each I suppose.Exactly. But Not good for us the punters. We are expecting more FKs outthere to compete based on efficiency to drive the price down while maintaining the same quality.

Adindas
07-10-20, 10:13
What if they don't repay the loan? Is the bank going to repossess the property? Whoever moves in will have the same issue that the bank would have if it keeps the property and converts it to a bank branch. Not all the guys will get the memo about the new ownership and new activity. If it is a bank branch now, guys will go to the window of the hottest teller and put 50 euros in the slot. She thinks it is a bank account deposit and he thinks they are going off together to have sex in another room, and it is merely "dress as a hot bank teller" day at the FKK. The language barrier will add to the problems. It will be a disaster, especially if he had decided to remove his clothes after entering the facility and approaching the teller window.

This is not unique to the FKKs. A lot of loans will just go into abeyance because the bank doesn't want to foreclose on the property and try to sell it at its least productive state.Exactly. The bank wil also be having the hard choice.

Abox79
07-10-20, 11:39
Because when you see these guys and their behavior, you know they are not what they claim to be. I tell girls my real job, why? Because I m proud of it, and I never say I m a businessman, which mean nothing for me, when so many fake businessmen in brothels.Sirioja, the girls couldn't care less what us guys do for a living, they only care for our custom in other words our money. If we part with the money and treat them well with a good attitude we may well benefit from better service.

Mursenary
07-10-20, 13:47
I admire your spirit doctor, proven wrong on every front but still willing to retort. I bet you have a little French in you, they never admit defeat even as the walls are burning all around them. I realize you didn't read my whole post so you don't realize you were all wrong, but you did manage to find one possible mistake I made. Or was it a trap.

Unfortunately for you I said nothing about N95 masks, that was only in the article. This next part is going to hurt. The people who control everything want you to wear a mask and stay quarantined so your immune system is shattered when you finally do go outside. They want you to die, old and sick people dying is great for the economy. That and the population is far too big to control at this point. That is why they float overpopulation rumors.Never have I ever participated in an internet discussion where someone use sources that contradict their own points in order to try to prove it. Weird times.

Sirioja
07-10-20, 14:11
Exactly. But Not good for us the punters. We are expecting more FKs outthere to compete based on efficiency to drive the price down while maintaining the same quality.For me, sex is not grocery nor cheap Asian products, but matter of quality. For me a expensive Audi is less expensive than a cheap Chinese car and a GND with who I would not go for free in real life is too expensive for 50. I prefer to pay more expensive for a girl who will make me dream, not only emptying balls, this is not interesting for me. I pay to dream, not for animal sex and important for me when girls offer me for free. Then behavior is even more attractive, if charm and good manners. Princess manners excite me much more than vulgarity or seeing a girl being fucked.

Sirioja
07-10-20, 14:26
I am always in the club for business. The real type of business!Often I keep on working my real job in brothels.

HammerTime96
07-10-20, 14:51
Biggest risk to catch is when you have sex with a girl who is fucked by everybody, not when you sleep or play football in the garden.So if I understand you correctly, you advocate to keep clubs closed indefinitely? Until a vaccine or herd immunity is achieved?


I am surprise that the country like Switzerland where it is also strict with things in general let the brothels to be reopened again.Yes, and that makes me wonder: if the virus really not so dangerous, or are they deliberately laying the foundation for blaming brothels for starting a "second wave" in the future?

Similar to most countries certain "contact sports" like judo, boxing and wrestling are not allowed in Switzerland, but prostitution is? I don't understand the logic here, as many gyms and sports clubs are also professional business and need customers in order to survive.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-28/swiss-say-sex-work-is-ok-but-not-judo-in-virus-reopening

Turgid
07-10-20, 15:16
That is the idea, LOL.

Keep in mind these girls have seen many people in a days. The chance that she will get infected from other people are very high. You will not have fun to "jab" the girl if you still worry to get infected.On Wednesday I was banging an escort and while copulating she warned me that she was going to cough and I continued pumping her and she coughed and I thought nothing of it and banged to climax. Last night while in bed I coughed a few times and thought damn I should have pulled out, exited the room and put a mask on. Its hard to be cautious while having sex.

Pessimist
07-10-20, 15:59
Define 'business man' LOL.In my next life I want to say my business is being a male porn star and I am Romanian lover boy on the side, LOL.

Pessimist
07-10-20, 16:15
As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.

I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.

The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.


But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?The key is what you wrote above, which is the state of their balance sheets. We can all guess their cash flows, but what was their balance sheet going into March? Also, who are the owners? I hear speculation on this site many times that this club or that club is owned by bikers / mafia / other sketchy players / and if so, the question is how did they finance the club, what was the purpose of the club: strictly to make money or was it to launder money, etc?

The reality is that most of us are not privy to the financial statements of any of these clubs, so we are just guessing.

If the club has a good brand name, even if the owners become bankrupt, it may be kept alive by new owners after ownership and capital restructuring.

If the club's attendance was so so and did not have any compelling brand name, then it would be tougher. In such a scenario, not many new owners will step forward in case of bankruptcy by prior owners.

A very important variable is how fast and how strong will business come back? In the US, restaurants and other establishments are finding out that even when they open, customers are coming back only half heartedly. I guess the virus is being handled better in EU and seems your situation is better. Perhaps locals will go back. But what about the sex tourists from US / Asia? What about business men (that dirty word again, Sirioja!) who travel to DE for some business and pop in to Oase for a quick fuck? Would international travel come back at the same rate? If not, which clubs are more exposed to that particular segment and who will lose out more / less? I don't believe we have enough info to know the answers to all these questions.

Master Monger
07-10-20, 16:22
Never have I ever participated in an internet discussion where someone use sources that contradict their own points in order to try to prove it. Weird times.Little danger means there is still danger and without quantifying it anything short of death could be considered little danger. If the mask is so loose that it is hanging off of your nose and not actually touching any other part of your face, then yes no danger. Any closer and you will decrease the amount of fresh oxygen you are breathing which will lower your immune system after about an hour. Faster if you are breathing heavily.

Let me give you another example: You are in little danger if you receive oral sex from a girl with AIDS Without using a condom unless you have a cut around your penis, also you are also in little danger if you have sex with a girl with AIDS if you are wearing a condom unless the condom breaks.

Would you Knowingly have oral sex without a condom or straight sex with a condom with a girl who has AIDS even though there is only little danger?

I will not respond to you anymore, you lack common sense and you have shown that you have a general lack of understanding concerning English. If I was playing you in a game of chess, I would just walk away because playing with you could negatively affect my intelligence.

Also, the US dollar is printed by the Federal Reserve which is owned by the same people who run the World Banks and International Monetary Fund and they also print the Euro and currencies of over 200 countries. With fractional lending most money is not backed by anything except a country's citizens deposits of cash in the banks and they can print 9 times more than a country has in the bank. They sell newly printed money to a country at about a 20% increase and then charge about 5% interest per year on top of that until it is repaid.

McAdonis
07-10-20, 18:07
No, social unrest is not necessarily a guaranteed outcome in US. In fact, I would be surprised if it came to that near term. At least not directly due to pandemic.

There could potentially be unrest in US because we seem to be a polarized society to some extent. But I think the media hypes up the degree of this polarization. So, I am not expecting a French Revolution in US anytime soon. But then again, a revolution by definition is a very fast rate of change and very very few people have the ability to foresee it, especially the timing of it with any accuracy.While the precise timing of a revolution would be hard to predict, there are certain risk factors. If youth unemployment were 20-40 percent, and say 20 percent of the population is between ages of 15-24, mass political or civil unrest would be a guaranteed outcome. Fortunately, USA does not have those kind of demographics or unemployment figures.

The pandemic might not directly lead to unrest, but it forced people to reflect on inequalities. Blacks feel left behind. Poor rural whites feel left behind. Millennials feel left behind (exorbitant student loans, 2008 crisis, 2020 crisis). The Fourth Industrial Revolution will also bring about disruptive changes. Given the below quote, I would be surprised if there isn't a strong push for universal health care or universal basic income in the coming decades:


"The feeling that society is rigged against them helps explain the sharply leftward shift in views among many millennials in the US. In a poll conducted last year by Harris, 49.6 per cent of Americans born after 1981 said they would prefer to live in a socialist country. A Harvard poll of Americans under 30 has seen a sharp increase in support over the past eight years for the idea that healthcare is a basic right that the government should have a role in providing: in the poll this year, 63 per cent agreed."

https://www.ft.com/content/241f0fe4-08f8-4d42-a268-4f0a399a0063

HammerTime96
07-10-20, 18:07
Worst is they don't really control, so they are not able to inform people when so many give false information and control spreading, but all is about money for Swiss administration and brothels owners know how to deal with, when a bad guy like me give true information, because if I m ready to take risks, I respect others health. But we know about level of respect for so many businessmen in brothels.Well, I'm very much afraid that the authorities are deliberately setting prostitutes / customers / brothels up for permanent closures or totalitarian tracking apps on smartphones in case CV19 starts spreading again in autumn.

It will be easy to be point fingers at brothels, prostitutes, and their customers for not providing / checking contact data, or accepting / providing false contact data.

The end conclusion is simple and foreseeable as authorities will say: "you see, people can not be trusted, so now we need to shut down brothels and force everybody to install totalitarian CV19 tracking apps on phones to monitor everybody 24/7. "

There is already a lot of media hype about every new case of CV19, and the stage for a second wave (real or imagined) is set. Furthermore, for ideological reasons, any successful treatment of CV19 is deliberately blocked by most western governments and the WHO because this was endorsed by Trump. In my country, doctors who successfully treated many patients with hydroxychloroquine + vitamine see, the + zinc are being silenced by the health authorities and shamed in the media for being quacks.

When authorities want something, they always deliberately create a crisis and then provide their "solution" as the only option. And it's always also a few irresponsible idiots that ruin it for everybody else. Tracking apps and a vaccine seem to be the only "solutions" that most governments are willing to consider, because it gives them more power.

I want to return to the old days of happy and carefree FKK clubbing!

Pessimist
07-10-20, 18:17
On Wednesday I was banging an escort and while copulating she warned me that she was going to cough and I continued pumping her and she coughed and I thought nothing of it and banged to climax. Last night while in bed I coughed a few times and thought damn I should have pulled out, exited the room and put a mask on. Its hard to be cautious while having sex.Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.

Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.

I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.

Pessimist
07-10-20, 21:02
While the precise timing of a revolution would be hard to predict, there are certain risk factors. If youth unemployment were 20-40 percent, and say 20 percent of the population is between ages of 15-24, mass political or civil unrest would be a guaranteed outcome. Fortunately, USA does not have those kind of demographics or unemployment figures.

The pandemic might not directly lead to unrest, but it forced people to reflect on inequalities. Blacks feel left behind. Poor rural whites feel left behind. Millennials feel left behind (exorbitant student loans, 2008 crisis, 2020 crisis). The Fourth Industrial Revolution will also bring about disruptive changes. Given the below quote, I would be surprised if there isn't a strong push for universal health care or universal basic income in the coming decades:Yeah, but there is a massive gulf between some sections of the society being unhappy + occasional riots to speaking about a revolution. If it is some riots, we are already having them now. We also had riots in 1960's, and if this question was asked in 1960's probably many might have said American society is heading towards a split or revolution etc, and as it were, we had 50-60 years of peaceful prosperity. And the FT quote talks about demands for universal healthcare among younger people. So, healthcare as a basic right is already fulfilled in most western societies and if US were to get it, does not need a revolution to get there. Obamacare went half way towards already and if Trump could put his name on it, he would be OK with it too. And when did youth not favor a socialism type set up? The famous saying is "if you are not a socialist at 20 you don't have a heart, and if you are not a capitalist at 40, you don't have any money or brain".

And also, you hedged yourself by saying "coming decades" - that is a long enough span that you could never be wrong (at least in our life time, LOL).

Tech always brings disruptive changes. That will continue. But do I expect people rising up to overthrow the bums and guillotine them literally or figuratively? Don't count on it in US.

My prediction is that Eurozone countries will either shrink in number to a few core nations (FR, DE, ND, etc) or Euro will simply fall apart as a currency and each will go back to its original currency before any revolution ever happens in the US. I also think China will become an existential threat to Europe and they will be torn between US and China. Either way, I am much more pessimistic about Europe than US, as an economic destination. Europe of course remains a lovely place to visit, the people are nicer (perhaps not so nice to Black people? I don't know and can't speak), food is awesome and just remains a lovely place to live and retire (and fuck for those of us mongers); I have this inner peace and tranquility when I am visiting Europe which I never seem to have in US (because I am enjoying copious amounts of sex when I am in Europe? LOL) but it is getting crushed between US and China and has no easy way out on the economic side.

Rocky V
07-10-20, 22:53
There is already a lot of media hype about every new case of CV19, and the stage for a second wave (real or imagined) is set. Furthermore, for ideological reasons, any successful treatment of CV19 is deliberately blocked by most western governments and the WHO because this was endorsed by Trump. In my country, doctors who successfully treated many patients with hydroxychloroquine + vitamine see, the + zinc are being silenced by the health authorities and shamed in the media for being quacks.If nobody is telling us about the successful treatments because they are being blocked by western governments, how do you know? Because you heard it on TV, on the internet, on the radio, in the newspapers? So everyone says it then, it's not true that they don't tell us, otherwise you wouldn't know it either.

Mate, do not believe all the conspiracy theories you hear online.

P.S. 'Vitamin C' does not exist!

Mursenary
07-11-20, 10:47
Would you Knowingly have oral sex without a condom or straight sex with a condom with a girl who has AIDS even though there is only little danger?Yes. Yes I would.

Sirioja
07-11-20, 11:22
So if I understand you correctly, you advocate to keep clubs closed indefinitely? Until a vaccine or herd immunity is achieved?.I didn't write this, I would not be honest when I go to escorts in Paris, Swiss clubs and today Vienna, but if I was German with wife and children, I would be grateful to Germany to try to protect their health, and Germany need to confine again some parts, when Switzerland is just crazy, no control, all for money.

The Cane
07-11-20, 13:02
Sirioja, the girls couldn't care less what us guys do for a living, they only care for our custom in other words our money. If we part with the money and treat them well with a good attitude we may well benefit from better service.The girls often ask me if I am in town on business. I tell the truth and say no, and that I am a sex tourist. Usually gets a smirk and / or a laugh. Ha!

Turgid
07-11-20, 15:05
Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.

Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.

I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.This is a very interesting and unexpected post. If a girl farted while you were shagging her would you go limp and be unable to continue? A contorted face turns you off? Does she keep a straight face while she is about to come? It would take a lot to turn me off while having sex, menstrual blood comes to mind or perhaps the girl vomits which has never happened. A police friend of mine once related a story that while he and his buddy were on patrol one night they came upon this guy pumping this girl in his car with windows up and a/c on. They knocked on his window and he looked at them but he kept on shagging. They shouted at him, banged on his window and threatened him but he did not stop. My buddy told me that he actually begged them to allow him to finish. He was an elderly guy. I sympathize with him.

Pessimist
07-11-20, 15:30
This is a very interesting and unexpected post. If a girl farted while you were shagging her would you go limp and be unable to continue? A contorted face turns you off? Does she keep a straight face while she is about to come? It would take a lot to turn me off while having sex, menstrual blood comes to mind or perhaps the girl vomits which has never happened. A police friend of mine once related a story that while he and his buddy were on patrol one night they came upon this guy pumping this girl in his car with windows up and a/c on. They knocked on his window and he looked at them but he kept on shagging. They shouted at him, banged on his window and threatened him but he did not stop. My buddy told me that he actually begged them to allow him to finish. He was an elderly guy. I sympathize with him.I can stop quite easily in the middle of sex. If it is a small quick fart, only sound and no stink, yeah I suspect we will laugh it off and go on if we were fucking at that time. If she farted while I was eating her pussy it would be a bigger turnoff (I usually don't lick asshole, so can't say how that would make me feel). I haven't experienced too many pussy farts to comment about them. Even the sound of stomach gurgling from being hungry is a bit distracting occasionally. Persistent cough is definitely a turnoff but sneezing is actually cute if it happens just once or twice.

Your police friend's story is so amusing LOL. It is nice of him to have let the couple finish. Would it count as cruel and unusual punishment if he had forcibly stopped them and dragged them away from each other? LOL.

Some people can stop in the middle of sex much easier than others, not sure why. I don't take rooms with the explicit intent of not finishing in the rooms but I have read such stories on ISG. But there have been many times that I do not finish. Mainly because I do take many more rooms than I can cum. So, mathematically I am setting myself up to not finish in every fuck session. However, this only happens during FKK trips, not during any other sexual encounters for me and is happening more of late as my age is increasing now.

Is it like being a light v heavy sleeper? Some people can sleep through an earthquake and fire storm. No amount of yelling, shaking, even water thrown in the face will wake them. We all had college roommates who locked us out and slept and could not be woken up. I am generally a light sleeper now. I wonder if the heavy sleepers also tend to be the ones who cannot stop in the middle of sex.

The Cane
07-11-20, 15:33
This is a very interesting and unexpected post. If a girl farted while you were shagging her would you go limp and be unable to continue? A contorted face turns you off? Does she keep a straight face while she is about to come? It would take a lot to turn me off while having sex, menstrual blood comes to mind or perhaps the girl vomits which has never happened. A police friend of mine once related a story that while he and his buddy were on patrol one night they came upon this guy pumping this girl in his car with windows up and a/c on. They knocked on his window and he looked at them but he kept on shagging. They shouted at him, banged on his window and threatened him but he did not stop. My buddy told me that he actually begged them to allow him to finish. He was an elderly guy. I sympathize with him.I like a contorted face, especially when I'm nuts deep up in that anal tract. One reason why I love missionary anal so much LOL! I have never known a girl to actually fart when I was doing her, but there are those "pussy farts" you know where air gets trapped up in there. Can be very annoying and distracting, but not enough to get me to stop fucking. Now the menstrual cycle is another thing! Fucked a woman one time on her cycle and will never do that again! Blood everywhere! Ewwww! I don't know why women want to fuck during their period. Well, actually I heard that it can feel extra good as it soothes menstrual cramps. Well sorry lady, I can't help you on that! Have had other women want to fuck during "that time of the month", and I have always refused since that first bloody time. And always will!

Adindas
07-11-20, 16:39
On Wednesday I was banging an escort and while copulating she warned me that she was going to cough and I continued pumping her and she coughed and I thought nothing of it and banged to climax. Last night while in bed I coughed a few times and thought damn I should have pulled out, exited the room and put a mask on. Its hard to be cautious while having sex.For many people (me included) when we bang the girl, especially when they are hot and gorgeous, our other head is ruling. It does not take long before our real head is ruling again when we realise that it is too late.

So to me I am not going to "jab" the girls in the party, FKK before the COVID-19 vaccine is invented and I get the jab. Better if the anti-body test has been done. At least it will give a peace of mind that I have develop and immunity. I get flu jab every year not really efficient but I have not got influence since a long time ago, only mild cold.

Abox79
07-11-20, 16:42
The girls often ask me if I am in town on business. I tell the truth and say no, and that I am a sex tourist. Usually gets a smirk and / or a laugh. Ha!LOL, I say the same thing, even if I am visiting Germany etc for business reasons. They are amazed when I tell them I travel just for the FKK. Also when they ask "have you been here before" I say "yes, have you", that usually is a good ice breaker.

Adindas
07-11-20, 16:44
Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.

Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.

I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.Some people cough, clearing throat in many occasions because of alergy after eating something for instance or cold weather.

Wanking
07-11-20, 18:14
I see https://www.meditherme.de/ outside of Bochum is open again. My favourite big relaxation sauna resort, full of naked regular German women relaxing but no fucking. Man what I would give for a day in there now.

Of course a day in an FKK brothel would be much better..

McAdonis
07-11-20, 19:01
Yeah, but there is a massive gulf between some sections of the society being unhappy + occasional riots to speaking about a revolution. If it is some riots, we are already having them now. We also had riots in 1960's, and if this question was asked in 1960's probably many might have said American society is heading towards a split or revolution etc, and as it were, we had 50-60 years of peaceful prosperity.

Tech always brings disruptive changes. That will continue. But do I expect people rising up to overthrow the bums and guillotine them literally or figuratively? Don't count on it in US.

My prediction is that Eurozone countries will either shrink in number to a few core nations (FR, DE, ND, etc) or Euro will simply fall apart as a currency and each will go back to its original currency before any revolution ever happens in the US. I also think China will become an existential threat to Europe and they will be torn between US and China. Either way, I am much more pessimistic about Europe than US, as an economic destination.Social and civil unrest, particularly if it boils over to violence, will be perpetuated by young males. The pandemic forced a period of introspection for all of humanity. For those that feel "left behind", that may have deepened some wounds. Yes, there were riots in the 1960's, but this was an era of abundance. If you were white, 15-24 yo and had the fortune to be born in the USA during this period, your prospects for the future were incredibly promising. In 2020, I do not believe young Americans share this optimism. The cost of housing, education, and health care have all outpaced inflation. Adjusted for inflation, millennials are the first generation to be financially worse off than their parents:


When his father, Craig, was 29, he was already married, owned a home in Payson, Utah, and had two of his five children. Now 64, Craig Larsen worked as a mechanical engineer, earning about $20,000 a year at the time, or about $50,500 in today's dollars, even though he hadn't finished college. His wife, Kathy, was a stay-at-home mom.

Scott, the youngest of the kids, is a marketing manager for a health and beauty company based in nearby Provo, Utah. Though he earns around $60,000 annually -- about 20% more than his dad did at his age -- he is living with his parents, because he doesn't feel he can afford to buy a place of his own thanks to soaring housing prices. While his dad was able to purchase a house for a little over twice his annual salary, Scott Larsen says he'd have to spend more than five times his yearly paycheck.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/11/politics/millennials-income-stalled-upward-mobility-us/index.html
Suicide rates have increased across all age groups, genders, and races.


"The United States is one of the worlds outliers, with suicide rates climbing since the early 2000s. Every state has seen a rise but some, such as California and New York, have lower rates and more modest increases."

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/08/geography-loss-global-look-uneven-toll-suicide
This technology disruption will be more profound than previous ones. Re-training a farmer to work in a factory is much easier to do than re-training a truck driver to be a coder. In the long term, the Fourth Industrial Revolution should improve the quality of life for all of humanity, but in the near term increase social tensions, inequality, and discontent. The pandemic also gave companies an excuse to accelerate their adoption of AI.


"Its quite different than the three Industrial Revolutions that preceded itsteam and water power, electricity and assembly lines, and computerization because it will even challenge our ideas about what it means to be human.

While in some ways it's an extension of the computerization of the 3rd Industrial Revolution (Digital Revolution), due to the velocity, scope and systems impact of the changes of the fourth revolution, it is being considered a distinct era. The Fourth Industrial Revolution is disrupting almost every industry in every country and creating massive change in a non-linear way at unprecedented speed."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2018/08/13/the-4th-industrial-revolution-is-here-are-you-readyI could foresee an eventual breakup or re-alignment of the EU. But most have predicted this since the beginning. I guess the question is whether it would be peaceful and gradual or a period of intense turmoil. You would have to elaborate on what China's rise might mean for Europe. Do you believe it would worsen just the financial well-being of the average European? Or change their way of life in a much more profound way?

Pessimist
07-11-20, 23:35
Social and civil unrest, particularly if it boils over to violence, will be perpetuated by young males. The pandemic forced a period of introspection for all of humanity. For those that feel "left behind", that may have deepened some wounds. Yes, there were riots in the 1960's, but this was an era of abundance. If you were white, 15-24 yo and had the fortune to be born in the USA during this period, your prospects for the future were incredibly promising. In 2020, I do not believe young Americans share this optimism. The cost of housing, education, and health care have all outpaced inflation. Adjusted for inflation, millennials are the first generation to be financially worse off than their parents:

Suicide rates have increased across all age groups, genders, and races.

This technology disruption will be more profound than previous ones. Re-training a farmer to work in a factory is much easier to do than re-training a truck driver to be a coder. In the long term, the Fourth Industrial Revolution should improve the quality of life for all of humanity, but in the near term increase social tensions, inequality, and discontent. The pandemic also gave companies an excuse to accelerate their adoption of AI.

I could foresee an eventual breakup or re-alignment of the EU. But most have predicted this since the beginning. I guess the question is whether it would be peaceful and gradual or a period of intense turmoil. You would have to elaborate on what China's rise might mean for Europe. Do you believe it would worsen just the financial well-being of the average European? Or change their way of life in a much more profound way?I think you and I have fundamentally 180 deg views. I am a lot more positive on US And it's future, while you are clearly negative on US. Not sure if you are negative on US or not because you ask questions more than you provide your own views, perhaps in an attempt to stir up discussion or don't want to reveal your real thinking, or perhaps due to other reasons. All of that is fine. Yes, Us is a polarized society with a high degree of inequality and yes some Millennials are struggling. But it is also incredibly vibrant, technologically it is streets ahead of all others, and we still attract the best minds in the world who want to come here. Some of the brightest people from Europe and Asia and Latin America come here to live, work, make their money, start new enterprises. Trump's anti immigration stance is unfortunate but I suspect we still haven't lost the luster. Our companies in stock market are valued the most. Just Apple alone is worth nearly 1. 5 trillion dollars, more than all of Latin America combined. In the last 15 years, at least measured by GDP per capita, the gap between US to most of the other nations has actually increased. These days, the main competition for us is China. It worries us endlessly. They are much more formidable than the Soviets ever were and their leadership is smarter than the idiots like Brezhnev and Andropov / Khrushchev. We slept at the wheel and partnered with Chinese and allowed them to ramp too much, and now they have a sufficiently large internal demand and in a decade might not need us at all. They are not there yet, but who knows, in a decade or two, they could be just as strong as US. Their younger people are smart, educated, hungry, enterprising, innovative, risk taking. All the things that made US strong. We simply do not see those things in Europe, not at scale anyway. Here and there, we see some pockets of growth and innovation and enterprise, but not enough. We simply do not see the same type of new company formation, innovation, technology development, venture capital investment, appreciation on the stock markets, etc. Germany is very dependent on automotive and industrial segments and has been depending more and more on China as a customer. But if in a decade, most of the cars are EV and also driverless, Germany economy faces big risks, as their market share in EV is likely to be less than what they enjoyed with internal combustion engines. Italy is a complete basket case, worse than Spain. UK is too dependent on financial services and London's role in serving Europe. I think Europeans get squeezed between US and China more and more, with not a whole lot of chance to turn this around. Their demographics suck, not enough population growth, not enough young people, and so many people in their late 20's and 30's still in University, no proper jobs, no family formation. That is not how you grow countries and economies. Again, I wish Europe was stronger, but no one who is in the financial services industry and follows Europe from an economics, investment point of view thinks Europe will turn around. 40 years ago, the world was Atlantic Ocean centered, with Europe and US on each side being the dominant centers of this world. Now this is a pacific century, it is US and China, and Asia in general. Korea and Taiwan are already as rich as Spain and Italy on a per capita basis or almost there. I have provided these numbers in the past. While US lead over Germany, the strongest economy in Europe has grown significantly in the last decade.

On top of all this, the national balance sheets are pretty crappy in many European nations. That is true for US as well, it as we discussed, we can print our money endlessly and so far the markets are giving us a pass. Italy or Spain or even France do not have that ability. They have aging populations, large pension liabilities, not enough working age populations making good enough money to support all these aging people even as life spans are increasing and healthcare costs increase.

So, you can focus on the negatives of US. Internal strife, divisions, inequality, racial tensions and all that, but I would say all of those are prevalent in Europe as well. No one can tell me that African immigrants are treated any better in France than they are in US. Our black people in US have higher per capita GDP than many European averages. We don't have monkey chants at our soccer games. So, I reject any moral superiority Europe throws in our direction, and anyway, that is irrelevant to this discussion. We had 15 years during which Europe continuously lost ground vs US and China both. When this actually turns around in any meaningful, we can talk.

Polyamorist
07-12-20, 02:25
Then you have the slums in Bangladesh where it spreads like wildfire. The favelas in Brazil where hardly any medical personell enters and people die at home.
Ya hasrety! it turns out that the COVID-19 germ was already circulating in Brazil in November 2019:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140731v1

Can anyone tell me how that is possible when it supposedly started in Wuhan, China in December 2019?

It was also found in the sewage of Spain and Italy around December.

PilotPaul
07-12-20, 02:37
It turns out that the COVID-19 germ was already circulating in Brazil in November 2019:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140731v1

Can anyone tell me how that is possible when it supposedly started in Wuhan, China in December 2019?

It was also found in the sewage of Spain and Italy around December.It wasn't being tested for in Wuhan earlier. Try doing the testing in wuhan samples 2019 Oct. Of wait, that's not going to happen because of secrecy.

Pessimist
07-12-20, 02:50
LOL, I say the same thing, even if I am visiting Germany etc for business reasons. They are amazed when I tell them I travel just for the FKK. Also when they ask "have you been here before" I say "yes, have you", that usually is a good ice breaker.I always say "are you new, haven't seen you here before". (Unless I have seen the girl before). Usually that puts them on the defensive a bit, because they think I am (a) not new in the club (b) they can't treat me like a newbie a and try to cheat me.

Chongmal
07-12-20, 07:26
Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.

Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.

I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.This could be a new tactic employed by ladies. A customer appears ready to take up more than 10 minutes of a session. Cough Cough and suddenly the guy is running for the door.

Rick Rock
07-12-20, 07:31
I think you and I have fundamentally 180 deg views. I am a lot more positive on US And it's future, while you are clearly negative on US.It's not a question of perspective, but objective reality. The US is clearly on the way out. No serious observers anywhere on earth suggest otherwise. Entire countries are reorganizing around this simple reality. You'd have to be some kind of totally deluded nationalist not to recognize the facts.

HammerTime96
07-12-20, 09:12
If nobody is telling us about the successful treatments because they are being blocked by western governments, how do you know? Because you heard it on TV, on the internet, on the radio, in the newspapers? So everyone says it then, it's not true that they don't tell us, otherwise you wouldn't know it either.

Mate, do not believe all the conspiracy theories you hear online.

P.S. 'Vitamin C' does not exist!Please don't selectively quote me! I never said only vitamin c, I said: "hydroxychloroquine + vitamin c, d+ zinc. ".

Hydroxychloroquine is the main the medicine, but has to be used in combination with Vitamin see, Vitamin the and Zinc, and this combination seems to work quite well for a lot of CV19 patients, but unfortunately many people refuse to acknowledge this because it has become politicized because Trump endorced it.

One person who has been on top of CV19 since the middle of January (when most of the world was still asleep and never heard of Wuhan) is Dr Chris Martenson has a PhD in Pathology, and has been pushing for keeping an open mind, including Hydroxycloroquine, since day one: https://youtu.be/dLSYRqcg0wo.

TeaInTheSun
07-12-20, 11:29
The key is what you wrote above, which is the state of their balance sheets. We can all guess their cash flows, but what was their balance sheet going into March? Also, who are the owners? I hear speculation on this site many times that this club or that club is owned by bikers / mafia / other sketchy players / and if so, the question is how did they finance the club, what was the purpose of the club: strictly to make money or was it to launder money, etc?

The reality is that most of us are not privy to the financial statements of any of these clubs, so we are just guessing.

If the club has a good brand name, even if the owners become bankrupt, it may be kept alive by new owners after ownership and capital restructuring.

If the club's attendance was so so and did not have any compelling brand name, then it would be tougher. In such a scenario, not many new owners will step forward in case of bankruptcy by prior owners.

A very important variable is how fast and how strong will business come back? In the US, restaurants and other establishments are finding out that even when they open, customers are coming back only half heartedly. I guess the virus is being handled better in EU and seems your situation is better. Perhaps locals will go back. But what about the sex tourists from US / Asia? What about business men (that dirty word again, Sirioja!) who travel to DE for some business and pop in to Oase for a quick fuck? Would international travel come back at the same rate? If not, which clubs are more exposed to that particular segment and who will lose out more / less? I don't believe we have enough info to know the answers to all these questions.September and October are key months. Not only because the 4 or 5 vaccines that are in phase 3, will give us reliable results or not. We will also see if we could be talking about a second wave and if it is more aggressive than the first one or if the virus tends to be weaker, or if the virus does not have as many "healthy" bodies to stay. Maybe also in those months we will know for how long those who got covid during first wave will have immunity. We'll see some answers. I hope.

McAdonis
07-12-20, 14:22
I think you and I have fundamentally 180 deg views. I am a lot more positive on US And it's future, while you are clearly negative on US. Not sure if you are negative on US or not because you ask questions more than you provide your own views, perhaps in an attempt to stir up discussion or don't want to reveal your real thinking, or perhaps due to other reasons.I would probably characterise myself as critical or fault-finding, rather than negative. I admit I focus more on negative things, but I see them as opportunities to improve. I am not overly convinced that GDP per capita is the end all, be all measure of the current economic welfare of the citizenry.

Compared to you, I seem to emphasize the social tensions and perceived inequalities more. The pandemic and social media shed brought these issues center stage, and extremist media on both sides probably exacerbated the divide. At some point, the inequality issue needs to be addressed. I am not saying running a country is like running a company, but if too many employees feel "left behind" or that they have "no skin in the game", they either disengage or actively sabotage. If my company is paying the highest average salary, is that the best metric to use? When employees start to feel upward mobility is not possible because the system is stacked against them, they give up. Perhaps, it is a matter of perception. By most metrics, a young rural White American or urban Black American is "richer" than your average Chinese migrant worker in Shanghai, but the latter is imbued with a sense of optimism for the future, if not for his own economic prospects, but for that of his children. Because USA has been the richest nation on earth for the past 75 years, does that create a sense of entitlement? Have working class Americans been spoiled? IDK. Are these anti-American beliefs?

Here is some "negativity" on China: the average Chinese is still poor by OECD standards, but what they have witnessed is 40 years of economic progress at breakneck speed. For that reason, your average millennial Chinese is politically apathetic. At some point, economic progress will stall, and I predict China would enter a period of strife once that happens, which if not managed correctly could lead to its downfall.

I do not deny USA's strengths. Trillion dollar companies, innovation, military, reserve currency, most talented immigrants, best universities. But historically all empires have fallen, so a country should not adopt a "back-to-back World champions" mindset, because it breeds complacency. There is always room for improvement. A healthy fear of China is good for the USA. I get the impression that many Americans believe China is only capable of stealing technology. That might be an outdated belief in 2020. To me, it would be better to overestimate the technical prowess of China, rather than underestimate it, because it would create a "Sputnik" moment.

There is a lagging effect between the decisions made today and the outcomes of the future. Case in point: the Space Race galvanised American policy makers to invest and prioritise STEM as early as 1955. This surplus of scientific talent helped USA develop the precursor to the Internet in the 1960's. So decisions made in 1955 helped create Silicon Valley, which helps to keep GDP per capita high even in 2020. If China wins the AI race in 2025, it is conceivable they would hit highest GDP per capita shortly after, and maybe even leverage that early technological lead to maintain the highest GDP per capita for 50 years beyond that, while being effectively resting on its laurels.

TBH, I was already bearish on EU's economic future, but primarily just based on their demographics problem. You gave me some additional points to ponder. Returning to what you said about the last 15 years, what metrics do you use when you say the USA lead over Germany has grown?

Mursenary
07-12-20, 15:08
Please don't selectively quote me! I never said only vitamin c, I said: "hydroxychloroquine + vitamin c, d+ zinc. ".

Hydroxychloroquine is the main the medicine, but has to be used in combination with Vitamin see, Vitamin the and Zinc, and this combination seems to work quite well for a lot of CV19 patients, but unfortunately many people refuse to acknowledge this because it has become politicized because Trump endorced it.

One person who has been on top of CV19 since the middle of January (when most of the world was still asleep and never heard of Wuhan) is Dr Chris Martenson has a PhD in Pathology, and has been pushing for keeping an open mind, including Hydroxycloroquine, since day one: https://youtu.be/dLSYRqcg0wo.Funny, we stopped treating people with hydroxychloroquine in our hospitals back in May. Fact is, that drug has never been shown to be effective in vivo. Benefits have on been seen in laboratory in-vitro experiments. Drugs used, remdesivir, tocilizumab, decadron, and convalescent plasma are being used in combination with anti-coagulation medication, and obviously respiratory support.

Turgid
07-12-20, 16:39
I see https://www.meditherme.de/ outside of Bochum is open again. My favourite big relaxation sauna resort, full of naked regular German women relaxing but no fucking. Man what I would give for a day in there now.

Of course a day in an FKK brothel would be much better..I have always wanted to go to these sauna resorts in Germany but never did. I would decide to go to one on a particular day but end up going to an FKK instead. Has any ISG member banged a woman from these saunas?

Chongmal
07-12-20, 16:46
I have always wanted to go to these sauna resorts in Germany but never did. I would decide to go to one on a particular day but end up going to an FKK instead. Has any ISG member banged a woman from these saunas?I haven't. I actually only ever saw a couple women in the regular sauna that even made my dick twitch. Most of the rest are memories burned into my brain I wish I could forget. Nothing like a lady bending over in front of you and cottage cheese popping into your mind. Then she turns a bit to the side and you see the white rockets hanging down toward the ground with water drop shaped ends and nippers stretched out flat. I got to the point where I just skepped them and went to the sauna club all day.

Pessimist
07-12-20, 16:55
I would probably characterise myself as critical or fault-finding, rather than negative. I admit I focus more on negative things, but I see them as opportunities to improve. I am not overly convinced that GDP per capita is the end all, be all measure of the current economic welfare of the citizenry.

Compared to you, I seem to emphasize the social tensions and perceived inequalities more. The pandemic and social media shed brought these issues center stage, and extremist media on both sides probably exacerbated the divide. At some point, the inequality issue needs to be addressed. I am not saying running a country is like running a company, but if too many employees feel "left behind" or that they have "no skin in the game", they either disengage or actively sabotage. If my company is paying the highest average salary, is that the best metric to use? When employees start to feel upward mobility is not possible because the system is stacked against them, they give up. Perhaps, it is a matter of perception. By most metrics, a young rural White American or urban Black American is "richer" than your average Chinese migrant worker in Shanghai, but the latter is imbued with a sense of optimism for the future, if not for his own economic prospects, but for that of his children. Because USA has been the richest nation on earth for the past 75 years, does that create a sense of entitlement? Have working class Americans been spoiled? IDK. Are these anti-American beliefs?Why is GDP per capita not a good measure of cross country comparison? What other measure is superior / reliable / accurate? We can build a spreadsheet of a thousand measures but that is not conclusive because on some, one country will be better and on other measures another country would be. Actually that is a fair reflection I agree because there is no such thing as one country is superior to another, but to the extent we are discussing economic comparisons and who is doing better, GDP per capita is the most comprehensive. We can also use per capita net income, per capita net worth etc but by and large they show the same / similar trend as GDP per capita and the quality of data for those is not as accurate as GDP per capita; I. E. Those metrics might not be readily available, not measured in the same way across countries, currency fluctuations play a huge role, etc.

Look, US will never be the most equitable. That is not a system we chose. On GINI index, we will always show worse than all Scandis for sure, worse than most of the Europeans and worse than even some developing nations. In a capitalist set up like ours with limited welfare state, the price you pay is that some people get richer and some fall behind. In times of stress, there is naturally some extra focus on the ones fallen behind when they die / riot etc. To think that results in some kinda revolution is a folly. Again, if you are confident, put down a date and tell us when this revolution will happen and what type of revolution? That is an impossible one to predict.

Yes, China is formidable, and we are concerned. Concerned, not scared. It is still quite poor. They perfected one system, became richer. They are like a Spanish clay court player who learned how to hit a forehand well and improved rank, but will that win them Wimbledon or will they become stagnant at #50 in the world as most SPanish tennis players do (there is only one Rafa). Many economists are skeptical if China can escape the middle income trap. They are reaching the upper level of the range commonly used for defining that trap. We will see. Countries are pushing and striking back. US-China trade relations have taken a turn and tough to see them going back to where they used to be, Trump or no Trump. UK is getting turned off. Trade w / Aus likewise is taking a turn for the worse. Their export led model is probably not enough to support prior levels of growth. They have antagonized almost all their neighbors and partners. FT, WSJ, other media have written tons of articles on this, I am not going to copy links to all of them, but they are there. We are concerned about China as a nation but their people are still way below us; yes, when you made $5,000/ year 10 years ago and now $9,000 then you are bound to be optimistic, where as if I made $64 K last year and $62 K this year I may be dissatisfied. That is human nature. But no one can say $9 K is better than $62 K.

BTW, the so called Chinese prowess in AI is not necessarily a given. THere is a lot of media froth. AI's value is enhanced when there is more and bigger data sets. China has 4 times more population. They have a regressive regime doing facial recognition. It does not mean they lead AI. Please don't copy links, I know what the media articles that are in free domain and can be copy / pasted will say. The reality is that China does not have the building blocks of that -- they have no semiconductor chips, their software companies are woeful, they still use US / EU / JP / KR made components to build their systems.

I wish Europe had more dynamic people and eco systems. They are highly educated, but somehow or other not sufficiently risk taking. Why is there not enough new company formation? Why are they lagging so badly in tech? Germany has perfected the auto / industrial economic engine but run the risk that technology changes will disrupt. Many thinktanks produced reports that say by 2050 a dominant share of global autos will be EV based and unit volumes will be below current trend lines (will still grow but not as much as they could have) due to driverless / ride sharing. What will Germany do? And a huge chunk of their industrial exports were trying to help China grow the manufacturing in China. Cutting / welding / stamping machines, assembly lines, etc etc. At some point, China might stop move up the technology chain and make those systems internally; as it is, China requires a JV with every German company trying to set up shop in China and Germany is continually doing technology transfer. I hope Germans know they are giving away their crown jewels to China over time. Korea on the other hand has never done that, being Asians they know exactly what China can do.

Pessimist
07-12-20, 17:06
It's not a question of perspective, but objective reality. The US is clearly on the way out. No serious observers anywhere on earth suggest otherwise. Entire countries are reorganizing around this simple reality. You'd have to be some kind of totally deluded nationalist not to recognize the facts.Why? Because we screwed up Covid response? The main reason we are this atrocious on Covid is because of current leadership and because of the unique nature of US / UK Anglo Saxon mindset. Ed Luce in FT had some interesting thoughts.

https://www.ft.com/content/d2d76a6f-27f4-4788-a901-1c7dcea4c26f

"National identity is what separates the US and UK from other English-speaking democracies. Australia and New Zealand, which have been models of competence against Covid-19, are relatively young nations that struggled until recently to shed their "cultural cringe" to mother England. Canada's self-image is bound up with not being America.

The pandemic record of these three English-speaking democracies belies the notion that "Anglo-Saxon cultures" are too individualistic to stick to social distancing. If New Zealanders and Australians can wear masks, so could Americans and British. Ignoring common sense never used to be an anglophone stereotype. What separates the US and the UK from other democracies is extravagant self-belief. *Half a millennium of potted history tells Anglo-Americans they are destined always to be on the winning side. It blinds both to how the rest of the world increasingly views them, which is with sadness and growing mockery. *.

After pride comes the fall. What is the remedy? Just as humans can learn from their mistakes, nations can recover from episodes of overconfidence. Some scholars have likened America and Britain's premature relaxation of social distancing to a failure of Stanford University's marshmallow test. Five-year-olds were offered the choice between one marshmallow now or two marshmallows a few minutes later. Most children chose to eat one now. Follow-up studies showed that kids who resisted temptation proved far more successful in their adult lives. Much the same applies to the fate of our pandemic economies. *".

Anyway, I don't think many Americans are proud of US response to Covid, and polls reflect this. That said, to claim the richest, most powerful country in the world is on the way out and "The US is clearly on the way out. No serious observers anywhere on earth suggest otherwise. " is not a serious comment. Believe it if you want. Europe is NOT a country. It is a fractious group of nations thinking they have something in common, and half agreeing sometimes and bickering other times; in any case, they are floundering just as badly as US if not worse in general for many years and still have and't recovered from 2008 crisis very well. Unemployment rates in so many EU nations is just terrible.

If not US and EU, then who? Japan? Please -- it is very diminished, 2/3 of US GDP per capita, and 1/4 of our GDP and has been stuck in a no growth zone for 30+ years. If it is China, OK fine, keep your views, I wrote a lengthy response to McAdonis.

Chongmal
07-12-20, 17:23
I would probably characterise myself as critical or fault-finding, rather than negative.I like this approach and many other things you addressed, but cut most out to keep it shorter.

1. Inequalities are a thing, but I feel certain cultures thrive on them while others settle in to the situation. I will focus on Chinese, or rather the Asian culture, in the USA since you mentioned underestimating the Chinese. I have observed that within the Asian culture there is a high level of drive to generate respect of elders and peers. I think this is largely cultural, demanded from birth. I have been in social situations where the first focus is on Age, then Job title, then wealth, etc. Once this order is sorted the evening can proceed. This social programming extends into education and business. Striving to move up that social stack drives younger Asian students to succeed. It also drives Asian parents to drive their children.

On the business side of things, I have seen Asians approach things differently than what I see in Western European Americans, aka Whites. Whites go to the bank, try to get a loan, work on their own to save money to start up. I have observed Asians making near total sacrifice to get momentum. Following are real scenarios. A Korean family in California wanted to open a restaurant. They went to the corner store, owned my Koreans, bought ice cream, ordered coffee with the store owner, had a meeting and walked out with the cash to start the restaurant. Interest rates are higher than at a bank, and they had a wonky repayment where they paid interest only until they could pay the entire amount borrowed in lump sum. This is an example of Koreans helping Koreans progress, even though they are making money in doing so. Another example I saw was in Salt Lake City. A Chinese family bought a house, five Chinese families moved in. They all worked jobs, made the payments, and saved money. At the point where is was affordable, They bough another house and part of them moved over. The original investors still worked and pooled their money together to help pay for the properties. This continued until all families were moved into nicer neighborhoods instead of staying in poorer inner city areas. My last example I observed in Italy. I lived across from a Asian sweatshop of sorts. People would come in, sew all day and all night. They lived and worked in the same communal building. As time progressed, people saved enough money and managed to gain a legal status. Children went off to school, learning Italian and translating for their parents. I'm sure what I saw was close to human trafficking but the people went into this for options to improve their lives.

The reason I point these things out, even though they pass both state and international borders, is that it demonstrates how different cultures address inequalities, some thrive on fighting to overcome it while others let the inequalities for their future.

Pessimist
07-12-20, 17:49
I haven't. I actually only ever saw a couple women in the regular sauna that even made my dick twitch. Most of the rest are memories burned into my brain I wish I could forget. Nothing like a lady bending over in front of you and cottage cheese popping into your mind. Then she turns a bit to the side and you see the white rockets hanging down toward the ground with water drop shaped ends and nippers stretched out flat. I got to the point where I just skepped them and went to the sauna club all day.Ouch. Thanks for that graphic imprint LOL. Yeah, nude resorts are the same. Never find any attractive young chicks.

Pessimist
07-12-20, 19:47
McAdonis,

One more thing. The average American may be thinking China steals technology and that would be accurate. They do, from US and from Europe as well. Is that the only thing average American knows about China? Who can say? But the thing is that the policy makers, company CEOs, investment professionals, economists et al know quite well about China. They are not underestimating China because they think China only steals and not much otherwise. Trump's Hua Wei ban is very much driven by an acute fear of China advancing too much. We are now trying to sop their 5 G development as much as possible.

So, no we are not sleeping at the wheel. We did. I said so in a prior post, that we partnered with them and let them advance too much and provided help in their advancement which hurt us. But many Americans have a good idea of the dangers posed by China. The average American is not involved in making policy decisions and the ones making them have a good idea.

Look, the largest Chinese company I. E Alibaba is listed on our exchange. We have dozens of key Chinese companies which sell their stock mainly on US exchanges. Our analysts and investors and portfolio managers speak to them every day. Safe to say, we are not unaware of them.

And BTW, there is always an excessive focus on Americans, our people, out thinking, our flaws, our mistakes. I don't believe the average anyone, be it European / Japanese / Chinese whatever it may be, is anymore enlightened about other nations. Yes, everyone knows about US, we seem to be the focus of curiosity of all around the globe. How educated is average German or French about the dangers posed by China to their economies? Why did Germans allow their networks built with Hua Wei, when Ericsson and Nokia are European? Why is Germany allowing technology theft and transfer to China? Why are German citizens OK with German companies setting up JVs with Chinese companies through which technology is transferred to China?

As for strife and unrest in China. It is a thuggish, totalitarian society. People know they will disappear if they say the wrong word. In Xinjiang, people cannot step out the door w / o being on camera. Now HK is going the rest of the mainland. China is an existential threat to many Western societies in the long run.

McAdonis
07-12-20, 21:01
Why is GDP per capita not a good measure of cross country comparison? What other measure is superior / reliable / accurate? Like you say, there is no perfect metric. But from my basic economics class, I was told that when comparing countries, PPP should be used, especially when attempting to compare quality of life, since we take into consideration the basket of goods and services one would be able to afford domestically. If that was an oversimplified explanation that I was given, and there are better metrics, please explain why. Here are the side-by-side line charts for USA and DEU according to the GDP per capita PPP. In 2009, DEU's figure was about 75 percent that of the USA. In 2019, it is about 85 percent of the USA's, so it appears DEU has gained ground, not lost ground. According to OECD estimates, average hours worked in DEU is 1386 whereas in USA it is 1779. I do not know if it appropriate or meaningful to divide by hours worked, but if we calculated a GDP per capita PPP per hour worked, it comes out to $40 in DEU, whereas it is only $36 in USA: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2019&locations=DE-US&start=2009.


We are concerned about China as a nation but their people are still way below us; yes, when you made $5,000/ year 10 years ago and now $9,000 then you are bound to be optimistic, where as if I made $64 K last year and $62 K this year I may be dissatisfied. That is human nature. But no one can say $9 K is better than $62 K.Quality of life is one thing. The "optimism" of a poor migrant worker in China, is because he is happy with his quality of life, despite his low GDP per capita. He believes his economic prospects for the future are promising, and thus he is less likely to join an extremist group. If China cannot escape the middle income trap, then that statement will no longer hold true, and social unrest would likely erupt in China.

Contrast that to a white factory worker in West Virginia who has seen his wages stagnate, while cost of living has increased. Or maybe he lost his job and the right wing media outlets and social media told him that the socialist liberals are to blame. Such a person might consider joining an extremist group, even if on paper, he makes four times more than migrant worker in China. That's human nature, like you say. He feels he deserves better.

Given history, we know that civil war has happened in USA. That was obviously the USA's greatest existential crisis. On a scale of the 1 to 10 that was a 10. How would you characterise the current moment? And in relation to previous periods of social unrest in USA?


I wish Europe had more dynamic people and eco systems. They are highly educated, but somehow or other not sufficiently risk taking. Why is there not enough new company formation? Why are they lagging so badly in tech?Theory proposed here: https://www.europeangeneration.eu/single-post/2019/02/14/Why-is-Europe-Lagging-Behind-in-the-Tech-Race.

Pistons
07-13-20, 00:11
Given automation, there is no such thing as a demographic problem any longer. And due to the continuation of Moore's Law for the next 40 years due to 3 the stacking and new materials, the world will change its rules faster than you might think. So these old history studies are about to be dated. And we are about to enter the world of AI. And in this environment, I am starting to believe that a one world government is most likely the only way forward. Unless we want a global WW3 on our hands.

When it comes to these cultural differences Chongmal talks about, that is just one more of these "we are better than them" stories. And as much as BLM has something to it, such stories must also go. Because they are fake mindsets going forward, and only a source of racism.

They have also zip zero nothing to do with race or background, but a result of brainwashing. If you look at certain christian white european societies, such as the Mormons, Assemblies of God, Jehowas Witnesses or International Church of the Foursquare Gospel etc etc etc for example, you will find exactly the same stories as you just alluded to.

However, the term we use to describe these religious groups in university literature, are religious cults. And some might say, dangerous cults. Like in the book by Steven Hassan "Combatting Cult Mindcontrol", which looks at how Jehowas Witnesses live as an example. And on the same notion, as you are just alluding to, certain minority groups do operate exactly like as if they were culturally mindcontrolled cults. And that very notion is therefore also very dangerous.

Pistons
07-13-20, 00:23
And lets not talk about the Amish.

Plus, this can be found all over the world, and has nothing to do with Asia, nor east Asia. Studies performed in Bangladesh regarding microloans given out to highly religious women by the Grameen Bank of Bangladesh found that religious cult mindsets made people more likely to hold their words, and pay back their loans. But there were also massive downsides to this way The Grameen Bank operated (and still do to some degree). I am sure you can google that, but it leads to never ending poverty on large scale. And this is also seen with the black economy in China.

Furthermore, in Africa and South America, simillair cases has been seen, although not documented as well as with the Grameen Bank. The Freemasons of Europe for example, are notorious for having this belief that following a religion (christianity especially) are a massive net positive for capitalism as a whole due to these exact very same reasons. But they are essentially a cult. At every level. And this can be said about all the brotherhoods of christian europe. And even Skull and Bones in USA etc etc. And they all consider age first, then other ranks later. And these types of Cult Mindsets are always the same, and always dangerous.

Rick Rock
07-13-20, 09:20
Why? Because we screwed up Covid response.No. The total inability to respond to a viral outbreak predicted for years is just a symptom of a free fall that started decades ago.

http://www.ciis.org.cn/english/2011-11/18/content_4635120.htm

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration

https://chomsky.info/20110824/

Enjoy.

Sirioja
07-13-20, 12:15
Ouch. Thanks for that graphic imprint LOL. Yeah, nude resorts are the same. Never find any attractive young chicks.Like swinger clubs, only uglies, when difficult for me to find attractive look at expensive Globe Zurich and never felt wow at Aphrodisia where girls are available for minimum 280.

Turgid
07-13-20, 15:14
Ouch. Thanks for that graphic imprint LOL. Yeah, nude resorts are the same. Never find any attractive young chicks.I last visited Cap D'Agde in France in 2008. There were many naked hot ladies there. There was the sexy section of the beach where you could bang ladies for free but the lady chose you and not vice versa. A hot lady never chose me for sex, only to give me hand jobs.

Pessimist
07-13-20, 15:40
Like you say, there is no perfect metric. But from my basic economics class, I was told that when comparing countries, PPP should be used, especially when attempting to compare quality of life, since we take into consideration the basket of goods and services one would be able to afford domestically. If that was an oversimplified explanation that I was given, and there are better metrics, please explain why. Here are the side-by-side line charts for USA and DEU according to the GDP per capita PPP. In 2009, DEU's figure was about 75 percent that of the USA. In 2019, it is about 85 percent of the USA's, so it appears DEU has gained ground, not lost ground. According to OECD estimates, average hours worked in DEU is 1386 whereas in USA it is 1779. I do not know if it appropriate or meaningful to divide by hours worked, but if we calculated a GDP per capita PPP per hour worked, it comes out to $40 in DEU, whereas it is only $36 in USA: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2019&locations=DE-US&start=2009.

Quality of life is one thing. The "optimism" of a poor migrant worker in China, is because he is happy with his quality of life, despite his low GDP per capita. He believes his economic prospects for the future are promising, and thus he is less likely to join an extremist group. If China cannot escape the middle income trap, then that statement will no longer hold true, and social unrest would likely erupt in China.

Contrast that to a white factory worker in West Virginia who has seen his wages stagnate, while cost of living has increased. Or maybe he lost his job and the right wing media outlets and social media told him that the socialist liberals are to blame. Such a person might consider joining an extremist group, even if on paper, he makes four times more than migrant worker in China. That's human nature, like you say. He feels he deserves better.

Given history, we know that civil war has happened in USA. That was obviously the USA's greatest existential crisis. On a scale of the 1 to 10 that was a 10. How would you characterise the current moment? And in relation to previous periods of social unrest in USA?

Theory proposed here: https://www.europeangeneration.eu/single-post/2019/02/14/Why-is-Europe-Lagging-Behind-in-the-Tech-Race.First of all, I doubt that you took only one econ class. You are quite cagey and don't let on much; I am sure you had a lot of education and being falsely modest here. Your past comments suggest a lot of thought and research, far more than can be expected from a guy who took one econ class decades ago.

So, my guess is that you already know all this: PPP has its plusses and minuses. I take issue with the comment: when comparing countries, PPP *should be used*; I am not aware of any should. Since you always try to put the ball in the other guy's court by asking "please provide info", I will play the same game and ask "please show where it says PPP should be used". You are a prolific user of Wiki and Google search, and have posted links extensively. The Wiki link for PPP covers the limitations of PPP and Google search will pull up many other articles. There is a vast amount of research and info on this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity

For the purpose of ISG, I would give one example. You can't spend PPP dollars. For instance, China's nominal per capita is $10.2 k and PPP is $16.7 K. If a Chinese dood saved 100% of his annual income (assuming it is the same as per capita GDP) for his upcoming FKK trip, he would be able to bring $10.2 K, not $16.7 K. If he flew to Seoul to illegally smuggle cosmetics, he would have $10.2 K and not $16.7 K. I am able to spend my nominal dollars, and Evita does not accept PPP dollars (or converted into Euros) from me.

Secondly, you deliberately chose 2009 because it suits your argument. To me, that is data mining. In making comparisons like this, end points matter. If I chart the DE v US PPP from 1990, the max allowed range in the link you sent, in 1990 DE was 19.4 K, US 23.8 K, 82%; now it is 56 K to 65.2 K, 86%; so, a small "gain" percent wise, but a larger gap of 9 K vs 4 K. Over the same time, in constant 2010 US $, DE in 1990 was 32.4 K and now 47.6 K; US went from 36 K to 55.8 K; in that sense, DE was 90% of US in 1990 and now 85%.

And BTW, DE is the very best of EU. Perhaps you are a German (I also notice that you carefully guard your own nationality which is just fine, but when you make these comments about other countries, especially not positive comments, would be more honest to disclose what your angle is). But for sure, majority of Europeans slid against US.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?locations=DE-US-XC

The reason a lot of European nations. From Greece to Italy / Spain to others feel DE gives them a raw deal is because DE benefits from having a weak Euro as an export led nation, and dictates ECB policy that benefits DE and not EU zone as a whole.

Your second point on China comparison: I am not even sure where you are going with this. In the prior comment you said you were concerned US was not sleeping at the wheel being too complacent about China and I answered it. But now we are talking about average Chinese dude being happy / optimistic / yadda yadda. Why would that bother me either way? I or other Americans are not hell bent on making sure the average Chinese dude is unhappy. If they are happy with their growth from $5 K to $9 K and happy with their CCP government, so be it.

But again, being cagey and careful, you refuse to be pinned down. You have said multiple times that there is a risk of a revolution / uprising / social unrest in US. I asked "care to say when and what will it look like?" You refused any answer. Bringing up 1860's civil war. How is that relevant? If you are indeed German, should I say there is a risk of National Socialists coming back to power and rounding up people w / o Aryan DNA in Dachau and Buchenwald? If you are French, should I say "but you run the risk of French revolution part deux and Mme Defarge? I do notice you have some Asian sympathies, so if you are Asian residing in EU (or even in US, who knows, you could be located in US and just pulling my leg), then should I say "there is a risk of Manchukuo, cultural revolution, and Eastern front war, etc etc"?

A lot of violent events happened in the past 2 centuries. If you are forecasting any such event repeating in US, please do let us know why you think US is at a higher risk of this than EU. If it is a generic risk you are talking of, w / o any specific dates, again what makes US more vulnerable? The way I see it, European economies are weaker, demographics are worse, there is not enough risk taking, they are excessively dependent on exports (DE) or tourism (Italy / Spain) or financial sector (UK) and also being so fragmented, run the risk of being caught between US / EU. The pension liabilities are mounting and are a real problem. During Greece crisis, we found that most people cheat on taxes and people game their system to retire at 55 w / fat pensions but there are not enough tax payers to pay it.

BTW, I have zero interest to know where you personally are from; but when discussions get into cross country comparisons like this, it helps to know what your angle is. I think that would be honest, but then again, on this board, many people take shots at US but carefully hide their tracks.

Finally, the link you added is interesting; Thanks! I will say that Europe being fragmented does add to their costs and also makes scale economies a bit more difficult to achieve. That part is true. But it is not the only reason. Structurally, they chose a welfare state, rigid labor markets, more regulated bureaucracy, higher taxation, and now they are all shoehorned inta a single currency framework with a lot of national rivalries, animosities. I personally think Europe is in a dicey situation, and China poses more risk for you than for us.

Pessimist
07-13-20, 15:46
No. The total inability to respond to a viral outbreak predicted for years is just a symptom of a free fall that started decades ago.

http://www.ciis.org.cn/english/2011-11/18/content_4635120.htm

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration

https://chomsky.info/20110824/

Enjoy.A link from China, ACLU and Chomsky are complete evidence that we are doomed. Got it.

Just curious -- what were these entities saying 10 years ago or 20 years ago? Did they predict doom for US back then too? Do they care to explain why we are 30% to 50% richer than Eurozone countries at the moment, in the links MacAdonis provided? Using his favorite PPP, no less.

Thank you!

P.S.: I just looked up and Chomsky is still alive. He does have longevity, doesn't he? I wonder what his secret is. I had a borderline commie roommate in college who worshipped Chomsky. Haven't heard much about him of late. Perhaps I have the wrong set of friends now.

Pessimist
07-13-20, 15:50
I last visited Cap D'Agde in France in 2008. There were many naked hot ladies there. There was the sexy section of the beach where you could bang ladies for free but the lady chose you and not vice versa. A hot lady never chose me for sex, only to give me hand jobs.I should visit these places more often. I have been in Barcelona dozens of times but somehow or other never visited the beach. I was in Tiergarten in Berlin but did not see many naked chicks, let alone attractive ones. There is a small section of nude beach in San Diego years ago, and more recently near Miami but US nude beaches are worthless. I always had the fantasy of fucking a lovely girl on the beach, half in water. Some day.

Pistons
07-13-20, 17:45
I would tend to agree with McA on this one. PPP shows the real wealth, while nominal GDP is the results of big banks staging exchange rates. Like the BIS especially. But other rates also has an impact, oil trade has another massive impact etc etc. And most of the time, it is all about future guesses, as in futures. So casino bets made by big banks mainly based on political factors.

Pistons
07-13-20, 17:54
Now of course, it has to be like this due to capitalistic production costs, borders and our multiple currency world. But the fact remains that most of the time, most of the people in this world are not tourists. Then use their own currency. And if they start using another currency more, then that other currency is starting to become their new main currency instead.

Pessimist
07-13-20, 21:19
I would tend to agree with McA on this one. PPP shows the real wealth, while nominal GDP is the results of big banks staging exchange rates. Like the BIS especially. But other rates also has an impact, oil trade has another massive impact etc etc. And most of the time, it is all about future guesses, as in futures. So casino bets made by big banks mainly based on political factors.Well, since I did not "disagree with McA", I guess you can agree with me as well, Piston LOL. For that matter, McA does not state his own opinion very forcefully but always asks leading questions. That is fine, we all have our own ways of structuring a discussion.

Economics is not an exact science, and there is more than one way to skin a cat. PPP has its uses (and pitfalls), and so do nominal, relative PPP and other measures. The wiki link I included both pros and cons. Isn't that the common complaint about economists, that if you have 4 economists in a room there are 8 opinions?

Yes, a guy making $2. 5 grand in India, which is their average per capita, will not starve to death -- which he would if he lived on that amount in USA -- because $2. 5 K in India is sufficient to at least eat enough to continue to live because a meal in India would not cost $10 it would cost at a minimum in a NYC deli. But if the dude travels to USA for a vacation with a year's income, it is still only $2. 5 K in his pocket, not whatever PPP says their per capita GDP is.

McAdonis
07-14-20, 01:54
You have said multiple times that there is a risk of a revolution / uprising / social unrest in US. I asked "care to say when and what will it look like?" You refused any answer. Bringing up 1860's civil war. How is that relevant? If you are indeed German, should I say there is a risk of National Socialists coming back to power and rounding up people w / o Aryan DNA in Dachau and Buchenwald? If you are French, should I say "but you run the risk of French revolution part deux and Mme Defarge? I do notice you have some Asian sympathies, so if you are Asian residing in EU (or even in US, who knows, you could be located in US and just pulling my leg), then should I say "there is a risk of Manchukuo, cultural revolution, and Eastern front war, etc etc"?

A lot of violent events happened in the past 2 centuries. If you are forecasting any such event repeating in US, please do let us know why you think US is at a higher risk of this than EU. If it is a generic risk you are talking of, w / o any specific dates, again what makes US more vulnerable? The way I see it, European economies are weaker, demographics are worse, there is not enough risk taking, they are excessively dependent on exports (DE) or tourism (Italy / Spain) or financial sector (UK) and also being so fragmented, run the risk of being caught between US / EU. The pension liabilities are mounting and are a real problem. During Greece crisis, we found that most people cheat on taxes and people game their system to retire at 55 w / fat pensions but there are not enough tax payers to pay it.TBH, back in February, I was convinced that there would be civil unrest in China, wondering if it would be CCP's "Chernobyl Moment". And I have already said, before that I believe there will be massive protests and unrest in China, if economic progress stalls in the next few years. Or farther down the road, if / when China reaches Western levels of GDP per capita. Are those anti-China views? EU I do not see potential for violent civil unrest. They are not a not a young, population and the social safety net is still very much intact. If the economy tanks like you and I predict, then issues arise. The youth minority will be higher than it is now, and they would be effectively locked out. USA, if you asked me probability of a second civil war, I have no idea, maybe 1-3 percent. I just assess the risk to be higher in the USA than in China and the EU. That might change after the election. Tensions are high at the moment, for that simple reason, violent outbreaks are just more imaginable. The probability of a shootout is higher if both guys are already aiming their guns at each other. One false move, and escalation. Political, generational, racial divisiveness. Guns.


As for strife and unrest in China. It is a thuggish, totalitarian society. People know they will disappear if they say the wrong word. In Xinjiang, people cannot step out the door w / o being on camera. Now HK is going the rest of the mainland. China is an existential threat to many Western societies in the long run.Yes, if one speaks up against the dictatorship, CCP will either censor them or make them disappear. However, such brute-force is not enforcible on large swaths of the population. The CCP is able to crush HK protesters and re-educate Xinjiang only because the majority of the Chinese population believes (or were convinced) that it is in the best interests of China. If CV-19 had spiralled out of control, and say 50 million Chinese across all the major cities in China hit the streets, the CCP would not be able to roll over all of them with tanks. Any action would have to have been preventive, such as a divide and conquer strategy or pushing the propaganda machine. The idea that Chinese people are all obedient, well history does not really support that. The entire 19th century was one rebellion after another, and two were thought to be the result of floods. One of those rebellions lasted 14 years and is thought to be one of the bloodiest conflicts in history. So I believe the CCP feared a repeat a history, and for that reason, they implemented Draconian lockdowns and undercounted the numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1851%E2%80%931855_Yellow_River_floods.

RE: optimism, wikipedia defines revolution as "when the population revolts against the government, typically due to perceived oppression (political, social, economic) or political incompetence". The operative word is "perceived". Look an immigrant, 45 yo Mexican farm worker, who is unable to speak English, is happy that he can make $15 K a year and provide a modest life for his family. He doesn't mind that his family of six all sleep in the same bedroom. He has no aspirations or dreams of his own, but he feels "blessed" because his children, and future generations will have more opportunities than he did. Contrast that to the white 30 yo Ohio factory worker who has seen his $45 K salary stagnate while the cost of living has increased. Then let's say I am rich, liberal White politician born into an upper-middle class family. All three of us have different life circumstances and experiences. Is it appropriate for me to say: "Fuck you Billy Joe, I am not giving you no handouts. Humberto is out there picking fruit. STFU and stop complaining, you have it easy! You should have studied hard and went to an Ivy League like I did!" I am not saying Billy Joe deserves a handout, but I owe it to him to listen to his concerns. If I do not listen, he might join an extremist militia. Humberto's salary is much lower but because he has an "optimistic" outlook on the future he is the one least likely to stir up trouble.

Polyamorist
07-14-20, 02:52
From March 8:


But when this really is all over, it will be interesting to look back on the statistics and see which countries won the race the end the deaths. Especially if you get old and want to retire to a country with a good health care system. And we see it's not about which country spends the most dollars, but which country has the most people who give a damn.
Salaam Polyamorist. The horses have finished the first lap and right now it looks like nobody will be retiring to Florida any more, and everybody will be retiring to New Zealand, including some of the people who started all the problems in the first place.

But keep searching.

Rick Rock
07-14-20, 04:51
Chomsky, commies, etc. etc. Just curious -- what were these entities saying 10 years ago or 20 years ago? If you would read the links and the contents within, you'd see that the decline started decades ago. Or you could just open your eyes.

But instead you reply with ad hominem and ask questions you could answer yourself with 30 seconds of research.

That explains more than any GDP stats ever could.

Enjoy.

Rick Rock
07-14-20, 04:54
From March 8:

Salaam Polyamorist. The horses have finished the first lap and right now it looks like nobody will be retiring to Florida any more, and everybody will be retiring to New Zealand, including some of the people who started all the problems in the first place.

But keep searching.The US has the highest healthcare costs in the entire world, and the highest number of COVID-19 deaths.

Laos has one of the lowest healthcare expenditures on earth, 17 COVID-19 infections, and 0 deaths.

As it turns out, money can't buy everything.

Rocky V
07-14-20, 12:30
The US has the highest healthcare costs in the entire world, and the highest number of COVID-19 deaths.

Laos has one of the lowest healthcare expenditures on earth, 17 COVID-19 infections, and 0 deaths.

As it turns out, money can't buy everything.The reporting standards and testing capacities are different. US (population of 331 million people) has so far carried out 131,000 test /1 million people, Laos (population of ca. 7 million people) has carried out just 2,853 tests /1 million people.

To cite Trump: if you don't test you wouldn't have any cases!

Rock.

YummyPL
07-14-20, 12:46
Isn't that the common complaint about economists, that if you have 4 economists in a room there are 8 opinions?I've never heard that specific comment before. It is brilliant! Thanks for the morning laugh.

Pistons
07-14-20, 15:40
The US has the highest healthcare costs in the entire world, and the highest number of COVID-19 deaths.

Laos has one of the lowest healthcare expenditures on earth, 17 COVID-19 infections, and 0 deaths.

As it turns out, money can't buy everything.Well, a few things money can buy is politicians, and testing kits. Very much on topic regarding your assessments there on Laos.

Pessimist
07-14-20, 18:19
The reporting standards and testing capacities are different. US (population of 331 million people) has so far carried out 131,000 test /1 million people, Laos (population of ca. 7 million people) has carried out just 2,853 tests /1 million people.

To cite Trump: if you don't test you wouldn't have any cases!

Rock.I will say that all tests are not equal. US, as you said did 131.4 K tests per mil pop and has 10.5 K cases per mil pop. S Korea did 27.7 K tests per mil pop and has 264 cases per mil pop. A test done early in the phase of a pandemic, when there are only a few dozens of total cases or a few hundred cases means you can catch and trace as many infections as possible, isolate them, and prevent a full blown outbreak. We did not test enough early on, and now it is out of control.

That said, this virus is impacted by many cultural factors. Asians are used to prior SARS outbreaks. Their governments were sensitive to this from early on. They reacted quickly. Their people are used to mask wearing. I see tons of people walking around w / masks even in perfectly normal times. Their populations are compliant and respect governments and do not question rules, especially rules that impact individual freedoms.

In the developed white countries, and especially Anglo Saxon countries and particularly so in US / UK, people are individualistic. We are not used to listening to governments. We look to ourselves to survive and do not depend on the government. Our best president of last 50 years Reagan said government is part of the problem, not of solution. We own guns to protect ourselves; I do myself even if I live in a very nice gated complex. Our government was clueless w. Are. T. How to react to this outbreak. We happened to have the very worst POTUS as far as this virus is concerned. This was a perfect storm. We will definitely not fare this terribly the next time, I am super confident about it. Churchill said "Americans Will Always Do the Right Thing ó After Exhausting All the Alternatives".

That said, people taking pot shots at US and gloating at our infections and deaths and comparing us to Laos are living in a lala land. Please be my guest and migrate to Laos, or if you are already in Laos, be happy and stay there. There is not one single country that has the combination of military / financial / economic / soft-power / cultural domination that US exerts on the world. Even in the countries which are very hostile to us, say China / Russia / any others, their populations are typically huge fans of Americans, American culture, and our people and want to copy us or even come and live here.

Pessimist
07-14-20, 19:24
I've never heard that specific comment before. It is brilliant! Thanks for the morning laugh.Haha Thank you very much. You know, the the favorite 4 words of an economist are "on the other hand".

An economist is someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. And make you feel it's your fault.

Q: Why did God create economists? A: In order to make weather forecasters look good.

Milton's First Law of Economists: For every economist, there exists an equal and opposite economist. The Second Law of Economists: They're both wrong.

Turgid
07-14-20, 23:45
I should visit these places more often. I have been in Barcelona dozens of times but somehow or other never visited the beach. I was in Tiergarten in Berlin but did not see many naked chicks, let alone attractive ones. There is a small section of nude beach in San Diego years ago, and more recently near Miami but US nude beaches are worthless. I always had the fantasy of fucking a lovely girl on the beach, half in water. Some day.Have you been to Haulover? I used to go there regularly in the early 2000's and it was not too bad. Once a rather ok nude woman in her early 40's complimented my dick and we got to talking, sat down on the sand and proceeded on some hanky panky and a guard came up to us and warned us. America sucks. This would not have happened in France. That beach sucks big time now. Last time I went about 10 years ago it was overrun with undesirables and gays.

Pessimist
07-15-20, 01:32
Have you been to Haulover? I used to go there regularly in the early 2000's and it was not too bad. Once a rather ok nude woman in her early 40's complimented my dick and we got to talking, sat down on the sand and proceeded on some hanky panky and a guard came up to us and warned us. America sucks. This would not have happened in France. That beach sucks big time now. Last time I went about 10 years ago it was overrun with undesirables and gays.Yeah, once. I was in FL for business and then drove straight to the Haulover beach because it was a decent distance away and I was confident no one I knew would see me on the beach. Around 3 PM in late March. Did get down to my birthday suit LOL but it was weird because I did not have a towel to put my bum down and it was hot. 75% were men, the women were old, not so good. I think there was one reasonably attractive woman but I did and't get a good look as she was roughly 100 ft away. After an hour, got dressed and walked away. Was an experience.

You definitely have skills. Able to hit up strangers on a nude beach is not an easy thing. Yeah, US sucks. You got away lucky w / just a warning. There have been multiple reports of couples arrested for public sex in FL. Here is one from a few weeks ago. You get arrested for doing what comes naturally. What a country!

https://rare.us/rare-humor/elderly-florida-couple-sex-sidewalk/

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-ne--20191203-jilviehjtndifaxntjg2citwlu-story.html

https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-couple-had-sex-inside-patrol-car-after-arrest-for-riding-bicycles-while-drunk-reports

https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article222200710.html

BTW, since you do use escorts in US. There is a thread here on sugar babes now on ISG. Perhaps a bit more expensive than escorts? But you seem skillful, and these days sugar babes are desperate. I am staying away from them because I can't take a risk on covid due to family issues but that may not be a problem for you.

Sirioja
07-15-20, 05:11
I last visited Cap D'Agde in France in 2008. There were many naked hot ladies there. There was the sexy section of the beach where you could bang ladies for free but the lady chose you and not vice versa. A hot lady never chose me for sex, only to give me hand jobs.Full naked Cap Agde on Mediterranee sea still exist, but never been. Since I m lonesome free bird, I only go to mountains, my paradise, I was so happy in Gran San Bernardino Aosta side, even 10/15 degrees and windy and even rain in Bonette south France, when Summer was said to be hot, and to be closer to angels.

ExpatLover
07-15-20, 08:20
40 years back in France or Germany no girl or woman was wearing a bra on the beach or swimming pool, today that is no more possible so many frustrated guys around, the same guys are not even able to shower nude in a FKK, the world is changing not sure for the better.

TeaInTheSun
07-15-20, 11:45
Today I saw an interview with a pfizer infectologist in charge of phase 3 of the vaccine that they will try soon in South America. He said what we all already know. If we have 100 infected, 75 are asymptomatic, of the remaining 25,16 have mild symptoms and 8 have complications. The interesting point was when he explained why some places in europe have the covid "under control", such as Spain or Italy, it is because it depends on the number of deaths that each of those countries had and the areas where the virus was focused. For every death, studies estimate that there were 1,000 infections. If we multiply, for example, the 29,000 "official" deaths in Spain, when we all know that there were more, we have 29 million infected. Around 60% of its population. So, we would be talking about of certain herd immunity. We can also explain the same situation in other countries or in cities such as New York, where the number of infections but above all of deaths has dropped considerably. If this opinion makes sense, the important thing would be to know now is for how long the antibodies last in those infected who survived this disease. A couple of days ago, I heard a WHO doctor saying that the antibodies can weaken in a few months but it is not yet known in how many, it could be 6, 8 or 12 months. This information would be important considering the effects of a second wave...

Samplerr
07-15-20, 12:24
For every death, studies estimate that there were 1,000 infections. If we multiply, for example, the 29,000 "official" deaths in Spain, when we all know that there were more, we have 29 million infected. Around 60% of its population. So, we would be talking about of certain herd immunity. The infected rate encountered in this study, even in so-called hotspot areas, is nowhere near 60%.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31483-5/fulltext

Rocky V
07-15-20, 13:15
I will say that all tests are not equal. US, as you said did 131.4 K tests per mil pop and has 10.5 K cases per mil pop. S Korea did 27.7 K tests per mil pop and has 264 cases per mil pop. A test done early in the phase of a pandemic, when there are only a few dozens of total cases or a few hundred cases means you can catch and trace as many infections as possible, isolate them, and prevent a full blown outbreak. We did not test enough early on, and now it is out of control.

That said, this virus is impacted by many cultural factors. Asians are used to prior SARS outbreaks. Their governments were sensitive to this from early on. They reacted quickly. Their people are used to mask wearing. I see tons of people walking around w / masks even in perfectly normal times. Their populations are compliant and respect governments and do not question rules, especially rules that impact individual freedoms.

In the developed white countries, and especially Anglo Saxon countries and particularly so in US / UK, people are individualistic. We are not used to listening to governments. We look to ourselves to survive and do not depend on the government. Our best president of last 50 years Reagan said government is part of the problem, not of solution. We own guns to protect ourselves; I do myself even if I live in a very nice gated complex. Our government was clueless w. Are. T. How to react to this outbreak. We happened to have the very worst POTUS as far as this virus is concerned. This was a perfect storm. We will definitely not fare this terribly the next time, I am super confident about it. Churchill said "Americans Will Always Do the Right Thing After Exhausting All the Alternatives".I totally agree with this analysis. Great contribution to the discussion. Thanks!

Chongmal
07-15-20, 16:12
When it comes to these cultural differences Chongmal talks about, that is just one more of these "we are better than them" stories. And as much as BLM has something to it, such stories must also go. Because they are fake mindsets going forward, and only a source of racism.Well, hmm, ok.

At risk of being further labeled a racist, I will make a couple quick points. Maybe not so quick.

As I read this you have already labeled me a racist and part of the problem. I suspect this is because I demonstrated pride in my Asian heritage. I accept that you may find my Asian success unfair. I will counter your claim that my Asian pride is part of the problem with the theory that people who see racism everywhere are a bigger part of the problem. Racism exists globally. Yes, I have seen Asians demonstrate their dislike for impure blood first hand. In some cases this intolerance is lessening but in predominantly Asian populated areas it still exists strongly, just as it does in white cultures, Hispanic cultures and black cultures.

I showed examples of how one culture accepts the fact they are thrown a crap hand, and they invest in themselves to work their way up. The examples I gave crossed state and international borders. Does investing in their culture eliminate the racist mindsets that surround them, no, but it improves their personal situation, their families situation and their extended families situation. At risk of further offending you I will say the German, Irish, Italian, Polish, etc. Early immigrants to the US did the same thing. Their criminal enterprises fed their intra national social assistance programs. If a culture and people are not willing to invest themselve and tackle the crap hand dealt to them, who else will. Is it racist, cultist, fueling bigotry by creating pride, maybe. On the other hand, not braking out of the cycle of being a victim has proven that victomology, although not genetic, can be passed on to our descendants or cast aside.

My Grandfather worked as a share cropper. He worked years to eventually be able to buy his own land and all of the family came together to build a house. My father graduated High School and immediately started working in a hazardous environment which he did until he was 65. He worked 18 years after that in other manual labor before illness disabled him physically. I joined the military and earned the option to finish university. It took 15 years to finish my degree, my career has been a yoyo of highs and lows. In addition to paying WGs enough to buy a small mansion, I have also paid for my children's college degrees, allowing them to start debt free. Of course, perhaps all this was only possible because of my White Privilege. Nope, one of my former colleagues is African American and we both talked about it for years. Our kids played football together, graduated different schools but all started their careers unburdened by debt. Here we are, African, White, Asian all in the same boat.

Our limiting factors are our minds.

Silly Rabbit, Trixie Are For Kids!

Pessimist
07-15-20, 16:49
One babe I saw on seeking today.

Canary
07-15-20, 17:18
If anyone is interested just Google the Covid-19 vaccine trial at Oxford UK. They have become increasingly confident that their trials will be a success as early as September this year.

As the UK doesn't have a large amount of the virus circulating the third stage of the trial is being done in Brazil on a larger scale where the Covid-19 rate is high.

ExpatLover
07-15-20, 19:40
Thanks but I think it is a long way to go to find a vaccine, it seems even the people who got the covid are only protected several months could be the same effect for any vaccine, we are still waiting for the HIV vaccine also promised and discovered 100 times.

McGrath
07-15-20, 20:38
Haha Thank you very much. You know, the the favorite 4 words of an economist are "on the other hand".

An economist is someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. And make you feel it's your fault.

Q: Why did God create economists? A: In order to make weather forecasters look good.

Milton's First Law of Economists: For every economist, there exists an equal and opposite economist. The Second Law of Economists: They're both wrong.And the truth to this is; if you really want to know how the world works. Ask an economist.

Pistons
07-15-20, 21:56
Well, there is a reason for economics to be grouped together with social studies at a lot of higher learning institutions. Because it economics is essentially that. A social science. And as such, it all resolves around combating cultist paradigms.

Pistons
07-16-20, 04:12
[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited or deleted in accordance with the Forum's policy prohibiting any discussion regarding racial issues. This action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

I am aware that the vast majority of references to racial issues are legitimate attempts to advise other fellow members about local racial issues and prejudices. However, past discussions in the Forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

Please do not engage in discussions about race in the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.

Thanks!

Sirioja
07-16-20, 06:37
One babe I saw on seeking today.If same for real, because photoshop can be a liar, but for how much is she available?

Turgid
07-16-20, 15:21
40 years back in France or Germany no girl or woman was wearing a bra on the beach or swimming pool, today that is no more possible so many frustrated guys around.............This is due to the migrants. Most of the migrants come from countries where men and women bathe in separate beaches and even in the women only beaches the women bathe in clothes covered from head to toe so if a peeping tom is getting his rocks off at a women's beach he can only see the eyes and nose. Now transport such a bloke to a beach in France and Germany where he is seeing a woman's body for the first time he will be unable to control himself. Reminds me of a Cheech and Chong movie where an Saudi Arabian guy went to the US and watched porn for the first time - hilarious.

Pessimist
07-16-20, 17:41
If same for real, because photoshop can be a liar, but for how much is she available?On seeking and other sugar babe sites, girls are not prostitutes. They will have sex (or many of them will anyway not necessarily all), but one has to work for it -- a bit like dating, but sex is more guaranteed than in dating, and also you have to give some money and gifts than in normal dating. Otherwise, you have to talk to each girl, spend time getting to know each other and eventually can have sex. I have generally paid $200 to $300 per session, but each session is not timed -- could be a couple of hours could be more, some times we spend hours together w / dinner or lunch, drinks and then sex. Nothing is an extra, but obviously not all girls will do every thing (just like in real life dating).

I just included that pic because I suggested to Turgid about sugar babes. This girl is not in my home town and I did not contact her. Just a girl I saw on the site.

I have used sugar babes in Europe (not in Germany because if I am in Germany I use FKKs) and I have given 200 Euros in Spain etc. Girls were really good. One girl in Barcelona spent nearly 3 hours, with sex in the bathroom shower, then spent 30 minutes just BLS. Good times.

Pessimist
07-16-20, 17:42
I totally agree with this analysis. Great contribution to the discussion. Thanks!Thank you Sir! Very kind!

ExpatLover
07-16-20, 19:08
Migrants from where, China, Japan, South Korea? Obviously not, most of those migrants are coming from countries where they have the same religion, this is the truth and the reality.

Pessimist
07-16-20, 19:44
If same for real, because photoshop can be a liar, but for how much is she available?One more thing Sirioja. Generally, my experience is that most girls are not photoshopped that much. Unlike w / escorts, you don't approach sugar babes only for sex. You meet, have a drink / lunch or dinner / movie date etc and then may be sex at some point. If the girl looks very different from photos, you can walk away. For that reason, most girls do not cheat. Some have photos from a year ago and say "of the 4 photos, the 3rd photo is a year old" in their profile description.

This girl I included is pretty hot. Not all of them are that cute. This one is just 19 or 20. I would think if she agrees to have sex, it will be at least $400 for a couple of hours. That would be my guess. I will be very surprised if she agrees to $300.

Keep in mind paid sex is technically illegal and more expensive in most of America. So, prices will be a bit higher than Europe, to be expected.

Sirioja
07-16-20, 22:16
On seeking and other sugar babe sites, girls are not prostitutes. They will have sex (or many of them will anyway not necessarily all), but one has to work for it -- a bit like dating, but sex is more guaranteed than in dating, and also you have to give some money and gifts than in normal dating. Otherwise, you have to talk to each girl, spend time getting to know each other and eventually can have sex. I have generally paid $200 to $300 per session, but each session is not timed -- could be a couple of hours could be more, some times we spend hours together w / dinner or lunch, drinks and then sex. Nothing is an extra, but obviously not all girls will do every thing (just like in real life dating).

I just included that pic because I suggested to Turgid about sugar babes. This girl is not in my home town and I did not contact her. Just a girl I saw on the site.

I have used sugar babes in Europe (not in Germany because if I am in Germany I use FKKs) and I have given 200 Euros in Spain etc. Girls were really good. One girl in Barcelona spent nearly 3 hours, with sex in the bathroom shower, then spent 30 minutes just BLS. Good times.I would pay 200/300 USD for her if photos are reliable. Yes, in Spain can have a girl for evening restaurant and the night for 300 + gift like perfume. Can also sometimes in Paris with Russian escort.