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Admin
01-01-00, 04:00
Thread Starter.

Sirioja
04-11-20, 10:50
You are right. Let get back to sex topic after today then LOL.

I much prefer to talk about mongering than virus, which I can do with my private life, where as mongering, I cannot discuss in my private life.You don't tell to your relatives, or neighbors, or at work, where you spend your holidays? When I tell about my holidays, ski free riding or bicycle climbing, people say: You are so passionate, when You tell You have stars in eyes, like when I see a beauty, but they are rare.

DasBooty
04-11-20, 12:01
More testing means more of the infected people will be confirmed to have the virus.Yes, which means that the death rate will be more accurate compared to when less testing takes place e. G. Sweden. Unfortunately some people here fail to understand that and basically draw conclusions from data which they do not understand.

Mursenary
04-11-20, 12:20
Without a doubt population density majorly determines infection rates which in turn plays a heavy hand in determining mortality rates (deaths within a total population). What the density angle doesn't really explain is the case fatality rate, CFR (deaths once you have the disease). In the case of the US, ours is sitting at 3. 7%. Even in densely populated NYC as you explain, that rate is at 6.3%. Compare those numbers to the entire countries of France, Spain, Belgium, UK, and the Netherlands whose CFR are all over 10%. The city of NYC alone, despite its density, is keeping people alive at a greater rate than entire western European countries even when you dilute their infection rates with the countryside. So despite overloading the healthcare system in our most densely populated city, we are still producing better results than entire developed countries.

As for quality of care, while the science of medicine is somewhat universal, the logistics of delivering that care is not. The US has the most number of critical care beds and ventilators per capita than any nation in the world. In addition to doctors, we utilize a system of mid-level providers such as Nurse practitioners (NPs) and Physicians Assistants (PAs). In addition, our nurses are more likely to be university educated than those in Europe. Despite our problems with poor general health and a population suffering from chronic illnesses, the numbers do show that we are superior in responding to an acute medical crisis than most of our developed nation peers.

At any rate, my point was to correct several statements that portrayed a picture of American carnage responding to Covid-19 and other criticisms of American healthcare when the data show that we are doing a better job than most of these western European nations. And I'll reiterate the need to pay attention to the data rather than the sensational images on your screens. That's what smart men do, use the data.


I doubt that differences in death rates amongst developed nations can be explained to any great degree by differences in the quality of care. Infection rates and their control are arguably the greatest source of differences.

Higher population density in Western European cities facilitated a faster spread of the virus that frequently overwhelmed health infrastructure. The US has comparative advantages because of geography / population density, but where it doesn't you have similar problems to what we've witnessed in Italy, Spain etc. New York city is the textbook example, where around one third of the national death toll is generated by 2. 5% of the population.

Some of the developed nations that have to date fared best, such as Australian and New Zealand, have greatly benefitted from low population densities and their lack of neighbours. Certain Southeast Asian countries have been much better at controlling the spread of the virus from an early stage because their testing, tracking and isolating programs have been superior.

Delta Indigo
04-11-20, 12:55
I doubt that differences in death rates amongst developed nations can be explained to any great degree by differences in the quality of care. Infection rates and their control are arguably the greatest source of differences.

Higher population density in Western European cities facilitated a faster spread of the virus that frequently overwhelmed health infrastructure. The US has comparative advantages because of geography / population density, but where it doesn't you have similar problems to what we've witnessed in Italy, Spain etc. New York city is the textbook example, where around one third of the national death toll is generated by 2. 5% of the population.

Some of the developed nations that have to date fared best, such as Australian and New Zealand, have greatly benefitted from low population densities and their lack of neighbours. Certain Southeast Asian countries have been much better at controlling the spread of the virus from an early stage because their testing, tracking and isolating programs have been superior.I agree, there are many quotes here saying that this or that is proof of the quality of certain health care systems. The prime determinants of a countries mortality rate per population, not per infection, is its underlying population density and the stage of the pandemic it is in.

Lower population densities certainly help, it is no wonder that New York is the worst afflicted area of the US. However the only way to assess a health care system is the mortality rate per those who are seriously afflicted with the disease, we don't really have such general statistics, but we can assess mortality rates per known infection.

And in that respect certain countries are doing quite poorly despite the futile assertions to the contrary here and from the numbers I have just seen on CNN, the US is not doing particularly badly but it is in an earlier phase of the pandemic, given the lag between infection time and death, the mortality rate will increase in the US.

There aren't really any effective treatments for this as far as I know, so it is really up to your immune system. The reason people are touting arguments like our health care system is much better, we will therefore handle it better or we are just better people is that they are deadly scared and nervous and hoping this is the case against a careful reading of the evidence.

Lower population densities coupled with a sensible lockdown are a definitive advantage, certainly Australia is far less vulnerable than India would be given its far lower density, but in this respect the US outside of its relatively dense urban areas, of which there are relatively few, would have a slower rate of progression than many European regions. Unless there is an effective treatment, no countries health care system will make much of a difference.

McAdonis
04-11-20, 13:33
New York City is doing terrible but New York City only represents less that 0.3 percent of the entire United States. As much as the media and Europeans talk terribly about our healthcare system, the fact remains, we are doing a much better job treating the sick during this pandemic than most European nations. That's a statistical fact.I do not get the impression that news outlets are using infection / death rates as a means to evaluate any one nation's level of medical care. If anything doctors and nurses in Wuhan, Lombardy, and NYC are seen as heroes. Nobody doubts their competency or blames them for high number of lives lost. All the blame usually goes to politicians who downplayed the threat and failed to prepare.

Milan politicians encouraging citizens to go out even after first 11 towns locked down: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/a-warning-to-europe-italy-struggle-to-convince-citizens-of-coronavirus-crisis.

Germany politicians have been lauded. Their first chain of infections came a month before Italy's. They effectively contained that first cluster which bought them crucial time to ramp up capacity (urgent care beds, testing kit, medical / emergency personnel capacity). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUSKCN21R1DB.

However, media from around the world is decrying the lack of universal health care in the USA, and questioning why poor Black and Hispanic communities are dying at disproportionate rates.

Turgid
04-11-20, 14:10
How about renaming this thread as the Corona Covid-19 Lounge?Please Einstein tell us how your mongering is going.

Optimist
04-11-20, 14:51
How about renaming this thread as the Corona Covid-19 Lounge?That would save a lot of time for anyone looking for information about P6 in Germany.

Optimist
04-11-20, 14:56
Please Einstein tell us how your mongering is going.My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.

Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughts

Sirioja
04-11-20, 15:48
First, you should read an article about why it is dangerous and stupid to infect yourself. You are either selfish or expect the girl to be stupid. Second, just because a girl has some immunity does not make her safe in any way. If she goes with a asymptomatic punter before you, her contamination will easily infect you. This virus is highly transmissible. Also, if she is immune, she has no incentive to adequately disinfect herself before you. In most clubs, the girls don't even fully shower between clients. Don't dream. Follow the science. If you want to partake, pay up and go with an escort that is not seeing 10+ people a day in a highly contaminated environment. Don't this that towel that is put on the bed will protect you from that infected punter before you. To be safe, everyone entering the club must pass a test. Do you think that is likely?Sharks took temperature on 13/14 March just before closed, Oase didn't control, I think also no control in NRW. Pretty sure virus was already in FKK land, with so many guys and girls, still few Asians seen, but in brothels, we share some of our diseases, even using condom, better to be aware, risky playfield and can also be for relatives, I think about chlamydia for wife, or HIV from AO, a reason for the new law in Germany to protect families. About future and risks in these places, I think better to have gotten and recovered from, then no more risk about it, when quite impossible with so many guys and girls from all over the world, virus don t play in FKK land. Better to know for risky health people, but it could already be risky before virus, not only this virus in FKK land.

Sirioja
04-11-20, 16:41
My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.

Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughtsBusiness in cars? In hotel? If still open in Germany, closed in France. My contact at GT is off now. My contact at Globe is at home. Both made big money since years, so they can take a rest for months.

Pessimist
04-11-20, 17:01
My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.

Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughtsIt seems to me that many mongers believe they are immune to Corona. It seems as if they would go back to their mongering ways today if they could if the governments allowed it. Social distancing and quarantine are mere nuisance forced on them in this narrative.

I disagree. I am not in the risky age groups and I do not have any Existing conditions that predispose me to the virus. I still am observing the distancing rules strictly and Staying home. I'm lucky that I can wfh w / o loss of any income, and the biggest misfortune that has befallen on me is the loss of a huge amount in stock markets but I can weather it.

Sugar babes are quite desperate now. I see many pretty new girls on the site, and most are out of jobs and have no income. If my intention was to just fuck a girl, it is easier to do so locally, and prices are even cheaper than FKKs. I'm not meeting them out of caution and for my own safety. I am surprised that mongers are desperate to fuck ex FKK girls in Germany whichever way they can. If you are willing to do so, you might as well eschew all distancing rules and try to build your own personal dose of herd immunity.

Mursenary
04-11-20, 17:09
Lower population densities certainly help, it is no wonder that New York is the worst afflicted area of the US. However the only way to assess a health care system is the mortality rate per those who are seriously afflicted with the d
isease, we don't really have such general statistics, but we can assess mortality rates per known infection.

And in that respect certain countries are doing quite poorly despite the futile assertions to the contrary here and from the numbers I have just seen on CNN, the US is not doing particularly badly but it is in an earlier phase of the pandemic, given the lag between infection time and death, the mortality rate will increase in the US.

There aren't really any effective treatments for this as far as I know, so it is really up to your immune system. The reason people are touting arguments like our health care system is much better, we will therefore handle it better or we are just better people is that they are deadly scared and nervous and hoping this is the case against a careful reading of the evidence.Yet New York City mortality rates are still lower than these "hard hit" nations. NYC is one of the most densely populated cities, if not the most in the western world, and the death rate of those infected is still lower than entire countries even accounting for the countryside population in those nations. As of today, 5800 deaths in New York county with 92,000 cases. That's 6.7%. Several European countries are sitting at a 10% case fatality rate. At this point, the US is far enough along the timeline to have peaked. Intubation rates and hospitalization rates have gone down in the past 3 days in New York. Other areas will see a surge but it will not be as bad as New York. The US is already on the plateau phase and while deaths will continue, death rates will decrease even more.

Regarding treatment, I transitioned to the ICU last week and effective protocols have already been established. Medicine is more complex than the public who thinks that a magic medication will come "cure" this. As with all advanced viral respiratory illnesses, symptom management is the treatment. Maintaining adequate ventilation whether it is via ventilator or a simple nasal cannula, sepsis control through blood pressure management and intravenous hydration, and some antibiotics to address secondary infections. That's all there is to do. Some antiviral therapies may help but that is hardly concretely established in the literature.

Saturn11
04-11-20, 19:55
My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.If you believe their statistics Chinese should be one of the least likely nationalities to have it at the moment. Since yesterday doubt any Chinese or Americans are flying into Germany given the 2 weeks quarantine. I asked some girls at Sharks if they ever saw customers outside of the club some said yes, some said never. I imagine the girls that said never are relaxing that policy at the moment.

A mini private FKK sounds intriguing, wish I was in lockdown in Germany, not just for that reason. Sounds like they are streets ahead of other countries with their testing and availability of hospital beds.

Pessimist
04-11-20, 19:56
I know, we may have second wave even next year like Spanish flu, it killed more people with second wave. This won't be over till vaccines are invented, and even then virus can come back with different form like influenza is, that is why we get shot with updated vaccines every year.

Well, then why did so many nations around globe had destruction of medical system to the extent they did not even have masks or gloves or life supporting equipment were so short of needs that doctors had to choose who will get the life supporting system etc.

Look, I hope world especially human are wonderful as we like to believe, west love idealism. Japan like to believe in idealism too, we like it, but we stick to reality and are more practical. Meaning Japan think like this, if we say we are testing people so easily then mass public will rush to hospital to test themselves especially with japans good insurance policy where most things are covered and where people love going to hospital as we are health hygiene conscious race, so this will create many problems including cluster infections at hospital while waiting and even we test and tests results are positive, we do not want to treat mild symptom patients with medicine like avigan because we rather to keep them to fix it with their immune system first, either way there will be panic plus the cluster infections, so what we focused on is to make people to stay home not to gather and for those who need to go out side go out side if it is related to work or buying food.

It is different way of approaching it and japans way of not being idealistic and not trusting what mass public could do is different. We know what will happen if we begin testing people as they request based on mild symptom. And hey, it is Japanese mass public we are talking here, based on truth, we have reputation of being very polite, organized and disciplined than other nations, but even then we were careful to how mass public may react if people began going to hospitals. As a result, we do not have collapse of hospital here and we still have masks and gloves at hospital, in pharmacy, we stopped selling it as one request, but one can only buy certain amount per day and is hard to find now. But fed did give us 2 recyclable masks per person in Japan, which apparently cost 467 million USD to distribute this 2 masks, which could have made apparently 5 million pills of Avigan, which we want to make just in case there is over shooting of allowed infection rates testing. There is easy testing kits available, but it is not that accurate apparently, either way we do not test everyone at hospital..To your question why did some countries have such poor medical systems and why were they shown in such poor light by Corona?

The answer is a combination. Some countries are poor and didn't have sufficient funds to build up a good medical system. This was probably true in China and will be true in India and Africa as Pistons said a few times.

Some countries do have money but didn't spend sufficiently on healthcare. Also, what they had spent on matters too. US spends 20% of GDP on healthcare but there are large gaps. We have a public / private payer system as compared to mostly public payer in other countries. So, for example we pay a higher amount for the same drug than in most other countries. We have some extremely sophisticated things in US but some hospitals may not have sufficient PPE.

More importantly, when a sudden spike happens in number of cases, any local hospital can be overwhelmed. This can be a local issue. US a whole may have sufficient number of ventilators etc but if you have too many cases in NYC and too few cases in Florida, You can not match supply with demand efficiently because these are sick patients and cannot flows to other areas of the country.

I agree with someone who said this before. Poly perhaps. The rich countries will be fine. We will beat this. Yes, a lot of people are dead and many will lose jobs and loss of networth due to stock market but we will generally be fine. I am not so sure about poor countries. Many millions may die in those countries.

Turgid
04-11-20, 20:15
My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.

Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughtsI doubt we'll hear from those regulars.

In my last few visits to Sharks ending mid March I collected contact info from some girls who were willing to come to my hotel. Most of the girls agreed to E150/1 hour which was fine by me. Any girls who asked for significantly more I discarded. One Latvian who I banged for E50/1/2 hour told me with a straight face E500/1 hour. In the end I decided to get the hell out of Germany. Good thing I did I might have been stuck there and accumulated quite a bill.

Mursenary
04-11-20, 21:49
I do not get the impression that news outlets are using infection / death rates as a means to evaluate any one nation's level of medical care. If anything doctors and nurses in Wuhan, Lombardy, and NYC are seen as heroes. Nobody doubts their competency or blames them for high number of lives lost. All the blame usually goes to politicians who downplayed the threat and failed to prepare.

However, media from around the world is decrying the lack of universal health care in the USA, and questioning why poor Black and Hispanic communities are dying at disproportionate rates.Regarding health systems, not the media, individual posters on this forum.

The media is however guilty of portraying carnage and woe and using the data deceptively which have been regurgitated here. Regarding the USA, I have rarely seen the mainstream video media talk about death rates, only raw misleading numbers.

Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality. You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.

Sirioja
04-11-20, 22:10
To your question why did some countries have such poor medical systems and why were they shown in such poor light by Corona?

The answer is a combination. Some countries are poor and didn't have sufficient funds to build up a good medical system. This was probably true in China and will be true in India and Africa as Pistons said a few times.

Some countries do have money but didn't spend sufficiently on healthcare. Also, what they had spent on matters too. US spends 20% of GDP on healthcare but there are large gaps. We have a public / private payer system as compared to mostly public payer in other countries. So, for example we pay a higher amount for the same drug than in most other countries. We have some extremely sophisticated things in US but some hospitals may not have sufficient PPE.

More importantly, when a sudden spike happens in number of cases, any local hospital can be overwhelmed. This can be a local issue. US a whole may have sufficient number of ventilators etc but if you have too many cases in NYC and too few cases in Florida, You can not match supply with demand efficiently because these are sick patients and cannot flows to other areas of the country.

I agree with someone who said this before. Poly perhaps. The rich countries will be fine. We will beat this. Yes, a lot of people are dead and many will lose jobs and loss of networth due to stock market but we will generally be fine. I am not so sure about poor countries. Many millions may die in those countries.France could move sick people when they were a bit better and could be moved, to other parts of France, or to Germany, Luxemburg or Switzerland. No states nor landers in France, easier to move. But big thanks to these 3 countries to help us a lot, to have free beds for worst cases. Average time in intensive care is 20 days, blocking bed and medical equipment, needing 5 medical staff to turn on back or belly, to help to recover lungs, and so many died, of course only worst cases were under intensive care.

Seem virus now spreading in islands towns in Japan, good luck to them, when France and Italy seem to be a bit better, after 9 black days in France. But Spain and now UK are in big trouble, still US also.

Pessimist
04-11-20, 23:42
I do not get the impression that news outlets are using infection / death rates as a means to evaluate any one nation's level of medical care. If anything doctors and nurses in Wuhan, Lombardy, and NYC are seen as heroes. Nobody doubts their competency or blames them for high number of lives lost. All the blame usually goes to politicians who downplayed the threat and failed to prepare.

Milan politicians encouraging citizens to go out even after first 11 towns locked down: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/a-warning-to-europe-italy-struggle-to-convince-citizens-of-coronavirus-crisis.

Germany politicians have been lauded. Their first chain of infections came a month before Italy's. They effectively contained that first cluster which bought them crucial time to ramp up capacity (urgent care beds, testing kit, medical / emergency personnel capacity). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUSKCN21R1DB.

However, media from around the world is decrying the lack of universal health care in the USA, and questioning why poor Black and Hispanic communities are dying at disproportionate rates.Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.

USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.

As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level.

Our beloved Romania is supposedly doing a fabulous job. Just 700+ total deaths by Aug. Bulgaria is even better at 225+. Poland is at 2300+. I guess they locked down when the rest of Europe and US did, and they didn't have too many people traveling back and forth between them to Italy or Asia.

Mr Ho
04-12-20, 00:02
To your question why did some countries have such poor medical systems and why were they shown in such poor light by Corona?

The answer is a combination. Some countries are poor and didn't have sufficient funds to build up a good medical system. This was probably true in China and will be true in India and Africa as Pistons said a few times.

Some countries do have money but didn't spend sufficiently on healthcare. Also, what they had spent on matters too. US spends 20% of GDP on healthcare but there are large gaps. We have a public / private payer system as compared to mostly public payer in other countries. So, for example we pay a higher amount for the same drug than in most other countries. We have some extremely sophisticated things in US but some hospitals may not have sufficient PPE.

More importantly, when a sudden spike happens in number of cases, any local hospital can be overwhelmed. This can be a local issue. US a whole may have sufficient number of ventilators etc but if you have too many cases in NYC and too few cases in Florida, You can not match supply with demand efficiently because these are sick patients and cannot flows to other areas of the country.

I agree with someone who said this before. Poly perhaps. The rich countries will be fine. We will beat this. Yes, a lot of people are dead and many will lose jobs and loss of networth due to stock market but we will generally be fine. I am not so sure about poor countries. Many millions may die in those countries.I think we should stop talking about issue that cannot be solved in sex forum LOL, so let keep it last.

Some nations are not honest, good example is China. It is big nation now thanks to Japan for giving them technology and money via ODA to begin with if you know some politic (google ODA), but they are not honest government there, this also goes to Russia too, and also south Korea. In political slug, we call it the red team.

As for poor nations, virus has not got there yet, it is still spreading, and we begin to see it in Africa just recently like it took some time to get to Europe and USA and during that time Japan was giving warning because we are the first G7 nation with one of the most advance medical nation with many biggest medical companies in the world to get it as China is right next to us, but Europe and USA then thought it is a problem on other side of the world and they did not even begin preparing life support equipment production or even masks.

Also poor nations do not even have ways to test it, so they won't even know and if you can do mild to strong or even total lock down now, it is better not to test it. Testing do not do much beside sending them home or give them Avigan etc if they have enough Avigan, which nobody have as of now, we are making it now and it will be ready to ship out to 20 nations in May, even then you should save them for rainy days. You do not want cluster infections at hospital and collapse of medical system like what happened in USA and Europe. There was no point for those people to rush to hospital as they could not do much beside help those are in real need, which they could not due to over capacity of patients who do not need to be there.

Lock down is easier for poor nations as they do not have much responsibilities as other big nations. I already explained about mega companies in Japan, they cannot do total lock down, it is not about money or greed, it is safety net for millions of people around world in financial way, they need to be paid even they are staying home or they will die in different ways than corona and that is actually more dangerous. Plus we believe in balanced lock down, not total lock down, I mean look at nations with total lock down, what happened to them.

We are expecting more worst period to come, so we are preparing for it now, but it won't stand if this goes on for long time. But we know the equipment we have to produce and we have medical companies like Omron, cannon etc producing it and other companies like Toyota etc. Have restructured their factories producing it as well.

Problem is people in Japan, we have about 70 percent decrease in movement of people in Tokyo according to google and yahoo, but we are still not scared enough, we live rather normally still. Most shops, department stores, cinemas, gym etc are closed though, but many restaurants are open. So we are definitely not scared enough.

What did scary now is that, we saw a tiger and a cat infected, one in New York and one in Brussels I think, thankfully in zoo, not in wild, but if this spread to other animals to animals then to humans, it will be hard to control it.

Either way, it won't be fixed on sex forum and look Japan is doing fine as usual and we are the one of the hope here for making vaccines as there are only few countries who can do this and western media has to do their jobs, but they should worry more about some of western nations situation where death rates are crazy, people are panic to the extent fighting for toilet paper, buying guns, digging mass grave among other chaos that is very third world like.

Anyways, G7 nations at least are honest countries enough and they won't lie the figure as it has tremendous damage if they do in other field, but some nations do not test on purpose, it is called strategy, and also again there is no point in testing mild symptom people because after testing they be told to go home and rest, eat well, so they just goto hospital to help destroy medical system and get infected in many cases.

Let hope this will be gone soon and there won't be second wave like Spanish flu, which killed more people with second wave. And I am glad FKK did not have any cluster infection because if FKK did, they will be attacked by politicians as axes of all evil. We do not need another reason for them to take away our BBBJ LOL!

Sirioja
04-12-20, 00:22
Regarding health systems, not the media, individual posters on this forum.

The media is however guilty of portraying carnage and woe and using the data deceptively which have been regurgitated here. Regarding the USA, I have rarely seen the mainstream video media talk about death rates, only raw misleading numbers.

Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality. You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.

Mursenary
04-12-20, 05:20
Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.You are right, it is 30 million. Yet for some reason, we are still keeping people alive in NYC more efficiently than in all of France, Spain, Italy, UK, Belgium, and the Netherlands during this time of crisis.

As for the poor, we have Medicaid for the truly poor. The poor have health care. The people who are without, are the lower middle class. But that is by choice as they can pay privately. Since the US has a tax rate is 10-20 percent lower than the average European nation, we can use that money to pay for private health insurance, but people choose not to. That is the beauty of America, you have the freedom to do what you want. If you choose to not use the 10-20% tax savings and choose to spend it on something else, that is your individual freedom. Unlike Europe where you are forced by your government, we allow people to choice to make bad decisions. But they have to live with that decision. And again, despite these bad choices, our system will still make sure to save your life in a time of emergency. Hence, the superior survival rate during this COVID crisis. Facts.

AZN Monger
04-12-20, 05:54
The coronavirus is a giant problem for the Swedish economy, otherwise not so much. I know that many people in other countries wishes that they had the freedom that we have in Sweden.

The government haven't done much and the changes they are contemplating are small stuff like closing down certain bars and restaurants. As I, unlike you, live in Sweden and actually read and follow the news closely, I can safely say that you don't know what you are talking about.

Sweden's infected rate per million is lower than the one of Norway, Denmark, Israel, Austria and the list goes on, so please refrain from spreading disinformation.Who cares if you live in Sweden? I use to work and live in Sweden for a number of years in Malmo and other areas of the country. I traveled to over 100+ countries for work and play. Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.

My profession as a health scientist would make me well aware of COVID-19 and the effects on the economy and the people. Despite Sweden's apprehension, I can tell you that they could have better managed the crisis. Please refrain from using your citizenship as an automatic "we should trust you". Clearly, many forum members think otherwise.

Mr Ho
04-12-20, 06:42
Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.The best health care one can receive is called BBBJ for the rate of 50 euro per 30 min LOL!

German FKK BBBJ is the best revitalization therapy for your soul LOL! You can even choose your international nurse who provide you BBBJ therapy as you wish LOL!

Clinic FKK LOL!

ShooBree
04-12-20, 09:46
Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.

USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.

As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level..In Italy 25000 died because of the influenza during the 2015/2016 winter season, no lockdowns then. The focus on deaths made us destroy the economy and we might walk into a new Great Depression. Maybe it would have been better to let nature take it's course as we always have done before in history.

The Cane
04-12-20, 11:09
Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.I agree that one does not necessarily know more than somebody else simply by virtue of their nationality. But, I wish that mongers would stop putting other mongers down precisely because they are mongers (seeing a lot of this lately in several threads). Conversely, somebody doesn't necessarily know less than somebody else simply by virtue of the fact of being a monger. There are many well-traveled, well-educated, intelligent people here from literally all walks of life. I would even bet a few politicians! So, when we have a disagreement with one of our mongering brothers, let us not criticize them for being a monger, and then use that as a basis to discount the legitimacy and validity of what they say. After all. Remember. If you're here, then you are a monger too! So if you show disdain towards somebody else for being a monger, then you show disdain for yourself.

Sirioja
04-12-20, 11:33
Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down..I don't know where you get these figures, but France was already nearly 14.000 deaths yesterday which was first not too many deaths day in this so black week, and when only really sick, but all very sick were treated in our hospitals with highest level equipment, but many couldn't be saved, even under intensive care, and I'm afraid Pistons was right, when I know France medical level, I never thought we would have 20.000 deaths, we lost this war, too many deaths, even much less than 1 % risk if you are less than 70 yo, not fat nor diabetic and no lungs nor heart problems, nor cancer. Confined which will be extended over 15 April, is told to save less than 3000 life since 17 March. Italy extend to 3 May. Spain which is down under think to close borders versus Summer tourism, ready to kill their economy. When UK and US don t really respect confined, when french police give penalties, would be really interesting to see real results for NL and Sweden with no confined, even of course can t compare with Italy and Spain where people live with old parents and killed them loving them. Anyway, french thank their doctors, I don t think many of those who were not saved, could have been, when we even used chloroquine, with few deaths from heart problems. Big shame for some who tried to make money, stealing masks, ventilators, those who write or tell to nurses or firemen or hospitals cleaner to stay away, to leave flat or building, because they are at risk about virus. Wish these shameful will be prosecuted and wish they won t need staff they insult because they don t deserve these insulted staff take risks for them. Some medical or safety staff died in this sad war.

ShooBree
04-12-20, 11:44
Who cares if you live in Sweden? I use to work and live in Sweden for a number of years in Malmo and other areas of the country. I traveled to over 100+ countries for work and play. Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.

My profession as a health scientist would make me well aware of COVID-19 and the effects on the economy and the people. Despite Sweden's apprehension, I can tell you that they could have better managed the crisis. Please refrain from using your citizenship as an automatic "we should trust you". Clearly, many forum members think otherwise.You are delusional if you don't understand that I know much more than you do about the situation in Sweden because, unlike you, I live in Sweden and follow the national news closely. You are just a monger.

Delta Indigo
04-12-20, 12:42
Yet New York City mortality rates are still lower than these "hard hit" nations. NYC is one of the most densely populated cities, if not the most in the western world, and the death rate of those infected is still lower than entire countries even accounting for the countryside population in those nations. As of today, 5800 deaths in New York county with 92,000 cases. That's 6.7%. Several European countries are sitting at a 10% case fatality rate. At this point, the US is far enough along the timeline to have peaked. Intubation rates and hospitalization rates have gone down in the past 3 days in New York. Other areas will see a surge but it will not be as bad as New York. The US is already on the plateau phase and while deaths will continue, death rates will decrease even more.

Regarding treatment, I transitioned to the ICU last week and effective protocols have already been established. Medicine is more complex than the public who thinks that a magic medication will come "cure" this. As with all advanced viral respiratory illnesses, symptom management is the treatment. Maintaining adequate ventilation whether it is via ventilator or a simple nasal cannula, sepsis control through blood pressure management and intravenous hydration, and some antibiotics to address secondary infections. That's all there is to do. Some antiviral therapies may help but that is hardly concretely established in the literature.You certainly know more about the medical and scientific aspects of this than I do and I think almost anyone else here. So you think it has peaked in the US, I thought that most models had shown otherwise, it might very well have peaked in NYC, but I had thought in the US certainly not, but at most the US is only a few weeks behind Europe anyhow.

All I was doing was interpreting the statistical data and trying to explain it. Most of this is not well understand by quite a few people and their own prejudices factor into their assertions.

What you explained about the implications of treating this illness were illuminating to me, no one, including the news has explained it as well as you have. Thank you for that.

Delta Indigo
04-12-20, 12:48
Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.

USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.

As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level.

Our beloved Romania is supposedly doing a fabulous job. Just 700+ total deaths by Aug. Bulgaria is even better at 225+. Poland is at 2300+. I guess they locked down when the rest of Europe and US did, and they didn't have too many people traveling back and forth between them to Italy or Asia.These projections are in line with what I would expect observing the statistical data thus far. However some of these figures, Bulgaria, Romania and even Poland are highly suspect, the quality of data varies from country to country and the political environment can influence the quality of data in certain countries far more than others, ie the figures in Romania and Bulgaria would be even more suspect due to this.

In Poland, as of now they are still proceeding with presidential elections despite the health implications since the ruling party thinks it can win easily. Some modelling has shown that holding these presidential elections even with many precautions will lead to a further 100,000 infections. I think if these elections go ahead, then the numbers for Poland could spiral. Also many of the most enthusiastic supporters of the ruling party are old people who will come out to vote and younger supporters of the opposition will stay home. That means a disproportionate share of the voting public on election day are vulnerable, what will that do to the death toll?

The one place where this could explode all over the place due to the late lockdown is Metropolitan Tokyo, I really hope not, since I have a vulnerable cousin living there, however this could eclipse the outbreak in NYC.

McAdonis
04-12-20, 12:52
Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality.The 2-3 percent difference in coverage you speak of is maybe less problematic under normal circumstances. But when there is a respiratory illness that is highly contagious, these untreated and undiagnosed are going to pose a danger to everybody around them. Illegal brown immigrants are not going to seek treatment for fear of being deported. Also if someone does not receive pay while they are sick (like are beloved WGs), they are more likely to go to work even if they have symptoms. All these factors could accelerate the spread.


You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.Yes perhaps poor diet and fitness is 80 percent of the problem, but the liberals and academics believe that de-facto segregation plays a role in economic outcomes which in turn affects both lifestyle and health outcomes. According to Harvard School of Public Health journal back in 2016:


where we live determines opportunities to access high-quality education, employment, housing, fresh foods or outdoor space all contributors to our health.

"Health builds from where we live, learn, work and play and only secondarily in the doctors office.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/health-disparities-between-blacks-and-whites-run-deep/.Being poor, being Black, living in a dangerous community, and seeing negative outcomes for yourself, your friends, and your family affects stress levels:


In fact, merely being black in America triggers exposure to stressors linked to premature biological aging. Research indicates that blacks get sick at younger ages, have more severe illnesses and are aging, biologically, more rapidly than whites. Scientists call this the "weathering effect," or the result of cumulative stress.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/policy-dose/articles/2016-04-14/theres-a-huge-health-equity-gap-between-whites-and-minorities.Black and brown communities are situated in areas with high air and toxic pollution. Black children are 500 times more likely to die from asthma:


These negative health effects just get worse as you get older. Throughout your life, you're accumulating air pollution exposures, says Rachel Nethery, a biostatistician at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health who co-authored the new pre-print. Air pollution exposure in young adults has been linked to abnormal changes in the blood, which can lead to heart disease and high blood pressure later in life, both risk factors for severe and fatal Covid-19 cases. In adults, this has been closely associated with cardiovascular disease and diabetes.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/11/21217040/coronavirus-in-us-air-pollution-asthma-black-americans

Pistons
04-12-20, 12:55
I am kinda going against the flood here and suspect Sweden did the right move in not closing down as much. The only thing they should have done better was to test far more than they have. You cannot test enough in order to get real data.

Because the only way I see it now, is that we have to burn this thing out. Although not destroying the health system, we need to keep it at max capacity in order to burn it out as quickly as possible. Otherwise, the virus will just mutate thousands of times before we reach herd imunity. And the more it mutates, the harder it will get to reach herd imunity. And also, the less effective vaccines will become. Actually, vaccines will be 99.99% useless from day one is my prediction due to the mutation rates some scientists are seing.

So basically, people will just have to die. A lot of people. It is the only way for society to get back to where we were. Otherwise, we'll just be herds in a cage for the rest of our lives. And hell, even Netflix, HBO and others are putting TV shows on hold, and gyms are closed. So this is getting boring fast.

Sirioja
04-12-20, 13:05
I think we should stop talking about issue that cannot be solved in sex forum LOL, so let keep it last.

Some nations are not honest, good example is China. It is big nation now thanks to Japan for giving them technology and money via ODA to begin with if you know some politic (google ODA), but they are not honest government there, this also goes to Russia too, and also south Korea. In political slug, we call it the red team.

As for poor nations, virus has not got there yet, it is still spreading, and we begin to see it in Africa just recently like it took some time to get to Europe and USA and during that time Japan was giving warning because we are the first G7 nation with one of the most advance medical nation with many biggest medical companies in the world to get it as China is right next to us, but Europe and USA then thought it is a problem on other side of the world and they did not even begin preparing life support equipment production or even masks.

Also poor nations do not even have ways to test it, so they won't even know and if you can do mild to strong or even total lock down now, it is better not to test it. Testing do not do much beside sending them home or give them Avigan etc if they have enough Avigan, which nobody have as of now, we are making it now and it will be ready to ship out to 20 nations in May, even then you should save them for rainy days. You do not want cluster infections at hospital and collapse of medical system like what happened in USA and Europe. There was no point for those people to rush to hospital as they could not do much beside help those are in real need, which they could not due to over capacity of patients who do not need to be there..Can you believe virus was not in FKK land, quite impossible it was not, even when was taken temperature at Sharks entry, but most infected don t have any symptom. Isn't also virus spreading in Japan islands towns? And I'm pretty sure virus will be in FKK land when will reopen, with so many guys and girls from all over the world. Anyway, interesting to have Japanese opinion about other Asian countries, but don t You mean North Korea for red, or really South? Russia is not so red anymore, but for sure not land of truth nor real freedom, not yet, not under Putin. Ana would shout about me if she heard me saying this about Putin who gave pride again to Russians from Moscow or Peter or Sotchi, when Russia was falling after the wall. Romania fell, ex DDR was lucky to become Germany.

Pistons
04-12-20, 13:12
Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down..So you missed out on this article?

https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/bergamo-citta/coronavirus-the-real-death-tool-4500-victims-in-one-month-in-the-province-of_1347414_11/

That is for Italy, a country which has been fairly good at testing people. With 15.935 tests per 1 M. In Comparison, Germany has 15.730 tests per 1 M. So Italian numbers are more accurate than German numbers. And in Italy, it seems they are only managing to pick up on about 44% of deaths from the virus.

New York for comparison tests 22.478 per 1 M, so figures there are probably a bit more precise. But Spain, UK and France has been very sloppy, so you can probably multiply it by 3-4 in those countries. Meaning for example France now has probably over 50 000 deaths. Hi Sirioja, remembers what we discussed a few days ago?

But of course, make your own number calculations. I will stick to mine. For India for example, with just 137 tests per 1 M, I suspect the real figures can probably be multiplied by 100-150. And Brazil is underepoting by 50+ times. And Africa pretty much doesn't have any testing capacity worth recognizing at all. But US figures shows Africans are 6 times more at risk than whites. Questions is just is that is due to the reasons the officials claim. I personally think the genetic factors play a larger role in all of this, so Africa will be hit harder than anywhere else. They will also face the same 'Hunger Games' scenario India is experiencing. Further increasing the death numbers from other non-corona related deaths. So there are no epicenters any longer its pretty global.

Sirioja
04-12-20, 13:40
You certainly know more about the medical and scientific aspects of this than I do and I think almost anyone else here. So you think it has peaked in the US, I thought that most models had shown otherwise, it might very well have peaked in NYC, but I had thought in the US certainly not, but at most the US is only a few weeks behind Europe anyhow.

All I was doing was interpreting the statistical data and trying to explain it. Most of this is not well understand by quite a few people and their own prejudices factor into their assertions.

What you explained about the implications of the treating this illness were illuminating to me, no one, including the news has explained it as well as you have. Thank you for that.Information and I think quite reliable, give more than 8000 deaths for only NY, and about 2000 deaths per day since more than one week in whole US, with more deaths among poor black and Latina people than rich white, even many obesity and diabetic. Doctors and same in France are about how many infected, but we can't really know because most numerous have no symptom, but a French investigation tell 1 infected may give to 3 people who may give to 9 , spreading. From my job, and how I was often asked: You can break, You can clean, you can do as you need, but get result we order you. So I judge how many deaths compare to population. I'm very happy for the so many infected who have no problem, even I know they are dangerous to spread. Of course, no game to compare Italy or Spain with Sweden. I just often take US example because I find interesting how the most powerful country which thought to be above virus, fell on so big trouble. I doubt Trump is able, but I think black Obama ideas about healthcare for all, were a real improvement for the most powerful country. France is not better than US versus virus, but healthcare is for all and even foreigners, and when I'm often mad about my tax when we have highest tax, but I will never complain to pay tax for healthcare for others, or for school. Of course I m a dreamer, but shouldn't everybody have access to healthcare, be able to read and understand world where we live? I would call this fair world.

Polyamorist
04-12-20, 13:44
What we have everywhere in actuality is controlled herd immunity. The point is not that Sweden is right, the point is to stagger it so that the death toll is not that high.
The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.

Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg

I would suggest the best strategy is:

1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.

2. Everybody else carry on as normal.

So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.

After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.

Why wouldn't that work?

DasBooty
04-12-20, 13:47
It seems to me that many mongers believe they are immune to Corona.No one is immune, but not everyone is buying into the medias scaremongering.


The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, tiredness, and dry cough. Some patients may have aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat or diarrhea. These symptoms are usually mild and begin gradually. Some people become infected but don't develop any symptoms and don't feel unwell. Most people (about 80%) recover from the disease without needing special treatment. Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing. Older people, and those with underlying medical problems like high blood pressure, heart problems or diabetes, are more likely to develop serious illness. People with fever, cough and difficulty breathing should seek medical attention.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#text=symptoms.

Mursenary
04-12-20, 13:59
You certainly know more about the medical and scientific aspects of this than I do and I think almost anyone else here. So you think it has peaked in the US, I thought that most models had shown otherwise, it might very well have peaked in NYC, but I had thought in the US certainly not, but at most the US is only a few weeks behind Europe anyhow.

All I was doing was interpreting the statistical data and trying to explain it. Most of this is not well understand by quite a few people and their own prejudices factor into their assertions.

What you explained about the implications of treating this illness were illuminating to me, no one, including the news has explained it as well as you have. Thank you for that.Thanks and No problem.

The models keep changing. I remember when the model called for a death toll of millions in the US alone. Then it dropped to 240,000. Then 100 K. Now 60 K.

They're a couple of hot spots festering right now where the populations are already pretty unhealthy to begin with so there is a chance that we'll see another surge of deaths in the upcoming week. That depends on how quickly NYC death rates drop. So long as Detroit and New Orleans areas do not get out of hand, the worst is behind the US.

Delta Indigo
04-12-20, 14:09
The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.

Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg

I would suggest the best strategy is:

1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.

2. Everybody else carry on as normal.

So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.

After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.

Why wouldn't that work?The lockdown varies in severity from country to country, and the people who move about the most and violate the rules tend to be younger. In Switzerland I would say the lockdown is a bit of a joke. The point about a different rule for over 60's and younger people might be optimal but it won't be enforced for political considerations.

It is more like an all or nothing approach politically. Since the lockdown will not be 100% effective anywhere, what we do have is staggered herd immunity, so that different infectious people are taken out of the pool gradually. So every two weeks a certain segment of potentially infectious people are no longer infectious and so on. There are off course infected people after one two week cycle, but the spread of this is staggered and herd immunity will take ahold anyhow since this is highly infectious, I am not a doctor, but I think this is far more infectious than the flu.

The argument is between staggered and phased herd immunity and the lack of any lockdown. Why won't it work? We don't know for sure but the vast majority of modelling indicates that the ultimate death toll will be far higher with no lockdown at all.

I don't want to predict any dire scenarios or a massive death toll, but many countries that were initially resisting a severe lockdown given the economic cost have decided that the resulting death toll would be at least politically unacceptable, like the UK and the Netherlands and most infamously a certain President.

I think social isolation during 2 or 3 (2 week cycles) could stagger this and potentially do a lot of good. At least in the initial phases, there is good evidence that the lockdown reduces the death toll, in the long run whether the slower development of herd immunity is worth it is anyone's guess, most of the modelling and the medical opinion suggests that it is though. As you know there are countries that are relatively lax, just a few of them, we will know in a month of two what the result of those policies were.

The point is this, very few politicians want to pay the political costs of the economic damage of this lockdown, but in response to the medical advice they have been given, they have chosen to do so. I really do not think that the few dissenting countries know better, I think they are just unwillinng to pay the political price in the short term or worse, have a robotic mind set (I will not say more about this to avoid a flame war).

I will say however that the pseudo nationalistic arguments I hear are not at all convincing to say the least.

If it is true that this mutates very fast or that you can get it more than once like some observations suggest, then herd immunity will not work at all and this has to be snuffed out. I hope to God that that is not true, I hope that herd immunity will gradually take hold.

What you say might work, and I think there is a chance I already had this and my symptoms were very mild. However I will tell you that given the unpredictable nature of the symptoms, even I who is relatively young and quite physically fit would not risk deliberately getting this. I know people who have tested positive for it and recovered with relatively mild symptoms.

Given the fact that so many self interested politicians are advocating a lockdown, what does this tell you? This is more serious than we thought.

Delta Indigo
04-12-20, 14:15
The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.

Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg

I would suggest the best strategy is:

1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.

2. Everybody else carry on as normal.

So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.

After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.

Why wouldn't that work?By the way on a lighter note, this is the first time you have initiated a message without an arabic phrase or something similar. I can see that we are all stressed out by what is happening.

The Cane
04-12-20, 14:17
Looking ahead to better times, I've decided that I would like to take a trip to Germany in 2021 for my next mongering adventure. I'm quite familiar with my favorite FKK destinations in Frankfurt, Hamburg, and Berlin. Also with Munich and Cologne, neither of which I desire to return to for the purposes of mongering. I've also decided to skip Augsburg for the time being. That leaves me with one major metro area that I have yet to fully investigate, and that would be Dusseldorf.

For those who know the Dusseldorf area and environs, which clubs there would you classify as "must-see" clubs? I remember that years ago before I first visited it, many of the "ice bears" referred to Golden Time as "must-see". I went, I saw, and I really did not like it there, and have never returned. I understand that one of my favorites of all time, German, blue-eyed blonde "Artemis Lilia" used to work at GT. Damn glad I found her at another club, as I've no desire to set foot inside of GT again.

So, seems my choices are the following (although I think one of these may have permanently closed): Living Room; Acapulco; Dolce Vita; Planet Happy Garden; Oceans. Would appreciate hearing from those of you who are in the know from direct experience about the pros and cons of each of these clubs, and why any one of them should be on my "must-see" list during my next mongering trip to Ge-monger-ry. Thanks in advance!Well, I tried to change the topic away from COVID-19 at least for a minute. Any intel on Magnum? Anybody familiar with my expressed likes over the years think I would like it there? Do tell! I'm assuming all these clubs will still be around in 2021. Maybe not.

Sirioja
04-12-20, 14:40
The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.

Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg

I would suggest the best strategy is:

1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.

2. Everybody else carry on as normal.

So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.

After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.

Why wouldn't that work?Among less than 70 yo, when no obesity nor diabetic, nor cancer treatment, nor lungs or heart problems, then much less than 1% dying. Most people don t have any symptom. Confined since 1 month in France is told to save not more than 3000 people when already nearly 14000 deaths and unfortunately not finished yet. 8 millions more unemployed in France, no tourism when the first place for tourism in the world. Had to work hard to try to protect my job and earning. Virus but also economic crisis to come very soon. NL and Sweden prefer to save their economy.

Sirioja
04-12-20, 16:17
Is it that you are relishing the prospect of no over 60's competing with you for the p4p belles? We all know they are the biggest clientele.When will reopen, don t mean no more virus all over the world, so I doubt no virus in FKK land when people from all over the world, so could be risky for not healthy enough and for relatives of clients and WGs. Should be a new FKK world for a while.

The Cane
04-12-20, 16:44
Fully aware this is the German forum. And painfully aware that it's become the Corona Virus opinion of the day forum. So I hope the following break from that is welcomed by at least some. Sometimes people discuss whether Globe is worth it. And you may have heard of its double price competitor Aphrodisia at a heart stopping $USD280/ half. Is it worth it? You decide.IMHO, neither Aphrodesia nor Globe are worth it. Not when I have Germany and Brazil. I did enjoy Globe when I went. Had a good anal session with a hot blonde from Gothenburg, Sweden. And literally the best BBBJ / CIM experience I have ever had in my entire life. She was Brazilian. Ahem! LOL! Enjoyed a decent looking Romanian girl at Aphrodesia, but did not like the place nearly as much. Would repeat at both clubs if I were in Switzerland. But, I have no plans to go to Switzerland anytime soon.

It's just too expensive, including food, hotels, transportation. Everything man! No need for me to return when other destinations fully meet and satisfy my needs. Now, as you said, this is a German forum. So, since things are slow, can somebody please provide some input regarding my general inquiry about the clubs around Dusseldorf (see below)? This is the last area of Germany that I want to conquer. The most up-to-date intel available regarding the Dusseldorf metro area clubs would be most appreciated. Thanks!

Mursenary
04-12-20, 17:36
This should have been done from the get go. Add a caveat that if a sub 60 year old or someone with comorbidities does not want to risk being in that temporary society, they could do it with some sort of mandated job guarantee. Whatever strain that still brings would be better than what's happening now.

The infected threshold of herd immunity for COVID is around 70% so I do wonder how that could be achieved in a short enough time without having to lock up senior citizens for over a year. I don't think a couple of months would do it unless it was done purposefully.


The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.

Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg

I would suggest the best strategy is:

1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.

2. Everybody else carry on as normal.

So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.

After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.

Why wouldn't that work?

Mursenary
04-12-20, 17:55
Given the fact that so many self interested politicians are advocating a lockdown, what does this tell you? This is more serious than we thought.They're probably thinking that the political cost of loss of life would be more damaging than their cost due to economic loss. That's what got Trump and what got be. Johnson. At this point few leaders such as the Brazilian president are betting on the minimal shut down tactic.

Polyamorist
04-12-20, 20:02
The point about a different rule for over 60's and younger people might be optimal but it won't be enforced for political considerations.During WWII the children were sent out of London for their own safety. How about sending the elderly out of London, New York, etc? They would go into special quarantine zones where testing is mandatory. As a short-term thing.

Except for the politicians. They would be shot into outer space.


Is it that you are relishing the prospect of no over 60's competing with you for the p4p belles?

Yes.


However I will tell you that given the unpredictable nature of the symptoms, even I who is relatively young and quite physically fit would not risk deliberately getting this. Wallah, Sayyid Indigo, nor would I. But I think the young should have a choice. Just like they can choose other risky activities like mountaineering and whitewater rafting. If people want to have Coronavirus parties, let them! Yes, they will suffer the consequences. But we will owe them a debt because they contribute to herd immunity. The best way of paying that debt is covering their hospital costs. Again: 99.9% of these young idiots will not die.


Given the fact that so many self interested politicians are advocating a lockdown, what does this tell you?It tells me that pressure was applied from above to maintain a state of crisis so that (a) we will all have our phones traced, (b) fertility rates will drop even more, and (c) there will be strict border controls to keep workers in their pens. These three things are all wet dreams of the global elite.

Bfsie
04-12-20, 20:08
Well, I tried to change the topic away from COVID-19 at least for a minute. Any intel on Magnum? Anybody familiar with my expressed likes over the years think I would like it there? Do tell! I'm assuming all these clubs will still be around in 2021. Maybe not.I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.

AZN Monger
04-12-20, 20:17
You are delusional if you don't understand that I know much more than you do about the situation in Sweden because, unlike you, I live in Sweden and follow the national news closely. You are just a monger.LOL! Nice reply. I'm glad you know how to read.

The Cane
04-12-20, 20:24
I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.I'm not disappointed one bit. My trip would be in late 2021 well past the 18 month max mark when a vaccine is supposed to be available. I think we will have one before then. We shall see. In the meantime, one must plan. Info on Dusseldorf anyone?

Sirioja
04-12-20, 20:41
Fully aware this is the German forum. And painfully aware that it's become the Corona Virus opinion of the day forum. So I hope the following break from that is welcomed by at least some.

Sometimes people discuss whether Globe is worth it. And you may have heard of its double price competitor Aphrodisia at a heart stopping $USD280/ half. Is it worth it? You decide. Here is a report from a year ago.

Rolled up around 10 and like a lot of these clubs it is very discreet from the street. Uber guy dropped me off but I had to poke around a bit to find it. It is in fact at the pin but only identified by two massive wooden doors. Push your way in and you will see another door labeled Aphrodisia.

Upon arrival, a hostess greets me in the hall and explains the process and prices (yes it's 280 a half! But it scales better. 380 for 45 minutes, 500 an hour). On your right is another door where you enter the club. And wow. I mean wow. This was a Thursday night and there must have been 30 girls and maybe 5-6 guys. I was stunned how many girls there were and they were all slim and pretty.

The club has an unusual format. No cover and the drinks are free. You could literally come in, have a few drinks and leave if you don't like the merch. This is highly unlikely. There are tons of girls and they all eyes on you. It's very unusual, especially if you are used to being the last picked for gym class.

The girls are not allowed to approach so it's a very chill vibe. I found a spot on the couch and chatted up a fellow compatriot who had been before. It was a nice conversation but before long we waived over a dark haired Romanian hottie in a black Danskin. She sat between us and we both chatted her up a bit. I was tempted but we both moved on.

Eventually I settled on Aurelia. An unbelievably pretty German girl. A solid 9 in and out of her clothes. We went upstairs. The rooms are very nice with 12 foot ceilings and a big king bed in a large room. Showered across the hall while she took the money downstairs. Clothes were shed and we had a very pleasant if unspectacular time. We did all the usual stuff but I can't recall the exact sequence (give me a break. I've fucked 5 girls in the last 24 hours and I am in pussy fog!

Her kissing was light and she does not BLS or I would have repeated. Great pussy fit, in both doggie and mish which is rare for me, so that is a big plus. We finished about 20 minutes in but no rush to leave. Shared a cigarette on the bed and just chatted for a while. Nice relaxed mood.

Even though the sex was nothing to write home about there is a classiness to the in-room interaction. Very sweet and professional and at the end where I had left the CH20 change on the table she said "don't forget your money" rather than "a tip for me?" I am definitely not at Sharks or Oase! And Just a classy feel throughout..I visited twice Aphrodisia on 2019, each time on Thursday at 7 pm, because Thursday evening is said to be best casting time there. Welcoming desk with good chocolates on desk on my second visit. Both times when I arrived, more than 50 girls, more than at Globe, some sitting behind the bar, all girls looking at you, staring at you, smiling, at least you feel very beautiful if you are self confident enough about your image, and I was the only guy, sultan of harem, girls serve you drink. Free entry and drinking for free, even if you want to drink alcohol, unfortunately, only orange juice for fruit juice, for me. On my 2 visits, I stayed about 8 hours, I saw guys entering, drinking or taking drug on the bar, and leaving without even looking at girls, and from my Russian escorts I pay 200 € for nearly 1 hour, I try to leave at 55 mn not to be asked for 1 hour rate, and from girls in Paris streets I see every day, I never saw any girl, not even Sunny, who worth to pay 280 for 30 mn, or 500 for 1 hour, I had prettier and more fresh girls in Germany, really kissing, I can enjoy for 4 hours in Germany for 1 hour at Aphrodisia and not even better service, with not many really kissing, I was told by some locals. Aphrodisia casting really don't worth the rate, many girls worked in Germany before, but not fresh anymore, like ex Beatrice Oase or Sharks seen on my first visit, but not on second, kind of cemetery for WGs, Aphrodisia is like the end of the road. Even Globe casting fell and not more than 5 girls at Globe now worth the rate = 130 €/30 mn, for me, with CIM 100 , anal 200 . More fresh girls and less silicon, except at GT, in Germany where if you find a beauty for you, you can have 3 hours with her for 1 hour at Globe, and 4 hours with her for 1 hour at Aphrodisia. Casting is on average far higher level for looks and services at Globe than at Aphrodisia, but unfortunately, Globe lost chic, girls lost elegance and charm. Zurich is a small village where cocaine is cheap. According to some locals and from my Swiss experiences, some other Swiss clubs are more interesting now, I mean before virus. Wait and see what will be after, but Globe was not anymore higher level than Germany where I had prettier girls for less expensive in 2019, mostly at Oase and one great at Gold.

Sirioja
04-12-20, 20:52
I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.Really? Until vaccine which will need months. Austria and maybe Switzerland should reopen before.

Akibono
04-12-20, 21:29
I am kinda going against the flood here and suspect Sweden did the right move in not closing down as much. The only thing they should have done better was to test far more than they have. You cannot test enough in order to get real data.

Because the only way I see it now, is that we have to burn this thing out. Although not destroying the health system, we need to keep it at max capacity in order to burn it out as quickly as possible. Otherwise, the virus will just mutate thousands of times before we reach herd imunity. And the more it mutates, the harder it will get to reach herd imunity. And also, the less effective vaccines will become. Actually, vaccines will be 99.99% useless from day one is my prediction due to the mutation rates some scientists are seing.

So basically, people will just have to die. A lot of people. It is the only way for society to get back to where we were. Otherwise, we'll just be herds in a cage for the rest of our lives. And hell, even Netflix, HBO and others are putting TV shows on hold, and gyms are closed. So this is getting boring fast.Mutations occurs in the hosts. The more people that are infected, the more mutations. However, lethality is not good for a virus. If it kills the host quickly, the virus dies too. That is why viruses tend to become less lethal with time. No country has shown an ability to control covid-19 once is rapidly spreads. The only way is suppression. In general, vaccines work even if the virus mutates. There is a lot of similarity and it is easy to target a virus once you have an effective vaccine. The vaccine can be adjusted for any common mutation. The problem here is the virus is novel so we have zero immunity. Even an imperfect vaccine will provide some immunity and at least mitigate the death rate.

Kel Varnsen
04-12-20, 21:36
I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.Do you have a quote or reference where Merkel specifically mentions prostitution or brothels? I have not seen any.

A summary in English of Merkel's press conference before Easter can be found here: https://www.thelocal.de/20200409/the-situation-is-fragile-merkel-urges-germans-to-stick-to-coronavirus-restrictions.

She is quoted as saying: The rules will remain in place as long as we do not have a vaccine that can be used to immunize the population against the virus. .

This was with regard to how this year's summer holidays may be affected and had nothing to do with prostitution specifically. It's unclear which rules she is referring to, however it certainly isn't Germany's plan to keep the status quo until a vaccine has been developed. So I think she is just referencing that some unspecified rules will be in place until that happens.

I see German media reference an expert brief quite a lot which describes a tentative way forward. This article (in German) is one example: https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/nrw-expertenteam-zum-corona-exit-so-wuerde-laschet-die-regeln-lockern-69996868.bild.html.

Here is an excerpt from the article, by way of Google Translate:

The expert commission recommends that economic activities should be re-approved as quickly as possible and as far as responsible. Protective measures such as masks, spacing or partitions would have to be taken. Retail stores could, for example, "reopen earlier than discotheques, in gastronomy, strict guidelines may be conceivable (distance between tables, limited number of people)".

The paper also states: "Major events such as Bundesliga soccer matches with spectators, but also trade fairs and congresses will not be possible in the foreseeable future. ".

My point is, I think it is too early to tell what will happen to prostitution in Germany, and particularly FKKs, for the next six to 18 months. Even if a vaccine takes 18 months or longer to develop and distribute, I don't think we can conclude already that FKKs will be closed for the duration.

I still carry a fair hope that it will be possible to lounge in a German FKK garden come July or August 2020.

A meeting between all states and the federal government is set for this coming Wednesday. I think we will know a lot more after the following press conference.

P.S.

And also, I think it will be up to to individual states, and not Merkel and the federal government, if and when the FKKs open again.

Sirioja
04-12-20, 21:43
So you missed out on this article?

https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/bergamo-citta/coronavirus-the-real-death-tool-4500-victims-in-one-month-in-the-province-of_1347414_11/

That is for Italy, a country which has been fairly good at testing people. With 15.935 tests per 1 M. In Comparison, Germany has 15.730 tests per 1 M. So Italian numbers are more accurate than German numbers. And in Italy, it seems they are only managing to pick up on about 44% of deaths from the virus.

New York for comparison tests 22.478 per 1 M, so figures there are probably a bit more precise. But Spain, UK and France has been very sloppy, so you can probably multiply it by 3-4 in those countries. Meaning for example France now has probably over 50 000 deaths. Hi Sirioja, remembers what we discussed a few days ago?

But of course, make your own number calculations. I will stick to mine. For India for example, with just 137 tests per 1 M, I suspect the real figures can probably be multiplied by 100-150. And Brazil is underepoting by 50+ times. And Africa pretty much doesn't have any testing capacity worth recognizing at all. But US figures shows Africans are 6 times more at risk than whites. Questions is just is that is due to the reasons the officials claim. I personally think the genetic factors play a larger role in all of this, so Africa will be hit harder than anywhere else. They will also face the same 'Hunger Games' scenario India is experiencing. Further increasing the death numbers from other non-corona related deaths. So there are no epicenters any longer its pretty global.France is counting not only people dying in hospitals, but old people in residences and others, and less than 15000 deaths today, Italy tell about 20000 deaths but more around Bergamo, and already more than 20000 in US, with more than 15 millions more unemployed with no more healthcare insurance and many people who can't anymore pay their flat rent and have to leave NY. Real crisis in US where some don't even have money to buy to eat. Government should give about 1000 USD to help some, but what about 11 millions illegals? Confined will be extended in France. In France, they say not more than 15% were infected, not enough because of confined, when 1 infected may infect 3 new people. Best is to have been infected and recovered, then no more risk tell french doctors. For sure, best to return to brothels with no risks.

Mr Ho
04-13-20, 01:25
Women at the helm has never been good for our proclivity. Look what happened to my once favorite destination, Argentina. There have only been undependable social media rumors of vaccines. What about other clubs and crowd activities such as Oktoberfest and music concerts. Are those dependent on vaccines as well? No different congregation activities than brothels.Only activity true monger care is brothels and escort service LOL, I ain't going to any events where there is bunch of guys with beers on their hands and girls wearing clothes LOL!

The Cane
04-13-20, 02:38
France is counting not only people dying in hospitals, but old people in residences and others, and less than 15000 deaths today, Italy tell about 20000 deaths but more around Bergamo, and already more than 20000 in US, with more than 15 millions more unemployed with no more healthcare insurance and many people who can't anymore pay their flat rent and have to leave NY. Real crisis in US where some don't even have money to buy to eat. Government should give about 1000 USD to help some, but what about 11 millions illegals? Confined will be extended in France. In France, they say not more than 15% were infected, not enough because of confined, when 1 infected may infect 3 new people. Best is to have been infected and recovered, then no more risk tell french doctors. For sure, best to return to brothels with no risks.I saw a report today that the UK does not count deaths in nursing home facilities or deaths that occur in private homes. I mean, how in the world can that be? Makes no sense to me, and if true, proves we're not comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges then because I know the USA does count these types of COVID-related deaths.

Pistons
04-13-20, 07:46
Mutations occurs in the hosts. The more people that are infected, the more mutations. However, lethality is not good for a virus. If it kills the host quickly, the virus dies too. That is why viruses tend to become less lethal with time. No country has shown an ability to control covid-19 once is rapidly spreads. The only way is suppression. In general, vaccines work even if the virus mutates. There is a lot of similarity and it is easy to target a virus once you have an effective vaccine. The vaccine can be adjusted for any common mutation. The problem here is the virus is novel so we have zero immunity. Even an imperfect vaccine will provide some immunity and at least mitigate the death rate.Well, it has been said the vaccine against the common flu, which mutates quite a lot as well, only reduces your time of being sick by 10-20%. And that is when the mutation of the season is very close to the one that infects you. Flu viruses from previous seasons probably has an even lower immunity bonus than the 10-20% you get from the vaccine, but may be in larger quantities. So yes, you are right that it may help to some degree. And that the worst mutations will just kill off themselves along with their targets.

But,

1. We don't know yet how fast it mutates.

2. It may mutate in reverse, back to the most lethal forms. While the vaccine makers will most likely miss the most lethal versions in the samples they have used.

3. It has been shown that the corona virus messes with our immune system and can temper with our white blood cells. Then, when we get the vaccine, which is usually crippled forms of the same virus in order to stimulate our immune system without it being able to kill off the virus, the vaccine may become more dangerous than the disease. Because even the crippled forms of Covid-19 may mess with our immune system in a similar way. And this is why I am way more scared of a lifelong vaccine than even a full month of near death at the hospital.

Rocky V
04-13-20, 14:12
I saw a report today that the UK does not count deaths in nursing home facilities or deaths that occur in private homes. I mean, how in the world can that be? Makes no sense to me, and if true, proves we're not comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges then because I know the USA does count these types of COVID-related deaths.It would make perfect sense if you knew how bonkers the UK government is and how keen they are in running from reality. The death numbers in UK are also managed in a way that they never reach 1000/ day, as that would be psychological too hard for UK people to accept. A bunch of idiots in charge, yet very faithful to their 'Dear Leader' Boris Johnson!

Rocky V
04-13-20, 14:22
3. It has been shown that the corona virus messes with our immune system and can temper with our white blood cells. Then, when we get the vaccine, which is usually crippled forms of the same virus in order to stimulate our immune system without it being able to kill off the virus, the vaccine may become more dangerous than the disease. Because even the crippled forms of Covid-19 may mess with our immune system in a similar way. And this is why I am way more scared of a lifelong vaccine than even a full month of near death at the hospital.A successful vaccine is made of parts of the proteins of virus, so it would not even look like the virus they came from and it would definitely be inactive. A virus can be active or not active, nothing in between. However, the first vaccine will be tested at the end of this month on healthy volunteer and Advent-Irbm and Oxfor University are attracting a lot of investments for then distribute the vaccine as widely as possible. It may not be so crazy to think we may have a working vaccine in the summer. Fingers crossed.

Turgid
04-13-20, 15:53
I would hypothesize that when a vaccine is found, whenever that may be, countries may require people seeking to enter the country to have a vaccination certificate. I am one of those who have a fear of vaccination. What a decision!

Sirioja
04-13-20, 16:13
I would hypothesize that when a vaccine is found, whenever that may be, countries may require people seeking to enter the country to have a vaccination certificate. I am one of those who have a fear of vaccination. What a decision!Many problems with grippe vaccine in France. What about European union, only UK is out now.

Kuni042
04-13-20, 16:20
Passive vaccines are nothing to fear. They only kill 1 in 10 millions. And have severe side effects 1 in 100,000.

Yet active vaccines are tougher. I had one once, and regret not to have chosen my right arm for the injection. Why the right arm? Simply because I sleep on the left side (ie the left arm). And that was out of the question for 3 nights.


I would hypothesize that when a vaccine is found, whenever that may be, countries may require people seeking to enter the country to have a vaccination certificate. I am one of those who have a fear of vaccination. What a decision!

MaxSquatter
04-13-20, 18:22
Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.


I speak German, and I was not able to spot this statement. She made it clear, that their will be lots of trial and error in relaxing all the constraints. Some sooner (schools) and some later.

There is no reason that brothels should re-open sooner or later then disco-clubs, bars etc.

My take is, that brothels will re-open.

A) if they have a viable strategy to keep customers (mongers) away from each other. As I pointed out in the GT thread, this is for some of the narrow FKK club difficult to achieve. FKK clubs either have to remodel significantly, go bust, or wait for 2021.

B) if they have a viable strategy to keep males safe from the young ladies (e. G. Both most likely will be wearing masks). The ladies will likely have to wear surgical masks in the room (like condom was already mandatory, right?).

C) ladies will be selected by the mongers from a distance. I have seen this already in swiss brothels in 2010 and before.

D) And the mongers might feel or be obligated to wear FFP2 masks during sex. Not 100% sure. But this is conceivable- provided enough of them masks will be around in summer or so.

I think this is all doable. But there is no way that brothels will re-open sooner or later then disco-clubs, bars etc.

Re point a: some red-right districts have an easier time to build safer tracks. Similar to shopping centers.

BTW: ladies that have already been infected may have the best business chances.

Pessimist
04-13-20, 18:22
I am sorry but how are your be and the viable in a sex session between a man and a girl? Are we going to fuck as if we are starring in Eyes Wide Shut? I don't follow your conclusion that they are all doable, as you say at the end. I mean, we have been crying copiously that not all girls are fully nekkid in the main room and that some girls will not suck dick w / o a condom unless extra money is proffered, will guys now accept putting on masks while fucking a girl who also has a mask? (Those N95's are hard to breathe through as such, some old guys may suffer severe consequences if fucking with a n95 on).

I also am not sure if the government will buy the FKK argument (if that is going to be their argument) that sex is safe and no transmission will happen as long as the guy and gal wear some kinda mask. I don't believe chance of transmission is zero if one of them is infected, and I don't see how the government will accept it will be safe.

My guess is, I totally misunderstood what you tried to say. Please correct me.


I speak German, and I was not able to spot this statement. She made it clear, that their will be lots of trial and error in relaxing all the constraints. Some sooner (schools) and some later.

There is no reason that brothels should re-open sooner or later then disco-clubs, bars etc.

My take is, that brothels will re-open.

A) if they have a viable strategy to keep customers (mongers) away from each other. As I pointed out in the GT thread, this is for some of the narrow FKK club difficult to achieve. FKK clubs either have to remodel significantly, go bust, or wait for 2021.

B) if they have a viable strategy to keep males safe from the young ladies (e. G. Both most likely will be wearing masks). The ladies will likely have to wear surgical masks in the room (like condom was already mandatory, right?)..

The Cane
04-13-20, 18:24
Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.No way would I accept and put up with that! Holding out for late 2021 regardless.

Polyamorist
04-13-20, 18:35
The infected threshold of herd immunity for COVID is around 70% so I do wonder how that could be achieved in a short enough time without having to lock up senior citizens for over a year. I don't think a couple of months would do it unless it was done purposefully.Salaam Mursenary,

At the current feeble rate of infection, I calculate that Germany will achieve herd immunity in the year 2089.

The current strategy works only as long as everything stays shut. Imagine that. All the factories closed for 69 years. All the shops closed for 69 years. All the schools closed for 69 years. I'm fine with that. But all the FKKs closed for 69 years? By the Prophet! Have I got your attention now?

Suppose we go in the opposite direction. All under-60's hugging and kissing as if they were at a Berlusconi orgy, and passing around greasy pizza. A national lovefest and daily FKK visits compulsory for all non-seniors including manginas. Yes, then it could all be over in a couple of months. Love is the answer. DFK for the win.

You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one. I just found that this famous German epidemiologist Kekule has the same idea as me:

https://www.express.de/news/panorama/virologe-stellt-these-auf-schaden-durch-lockdown-groesser-als-durch-corona-36548638

Using Google Translate, a summary:


LOCKDOWN DAMAGE GREATER THAN CORONA
...
"We cannot wait for a vaccine and live in lockdown mode for another six to twelve months. If we did, our society and culture would be destroyed."
...
Older people and people with previous illnesses, i.e. those who are most susceptible to the coronavirus, should remain isolated. Kekule: We have to convince them to stay at home. But we also have to find ways to make the situation bearable for them, so that, for example. shopping and social life are also possible. When this vulnerable group leaves the house, a mask or mask is required.
...
The 61-year-old suggests that young people be (consciously) infected with Sars-CoV-2 in order to become immune as quickly as possible. In the age groups <50, the course of the disease is usually harmless. In this respect - according to the epidemiologist - schools and kindergartens must first be opened after the lockdown. Denmark is already planning this after Easter.

MythoVirus
04-13-20, 18:54
Every government / media talking about a vaccine as if it was, simple candy you buy from a supermarket.

Finding the correct vaccine which confers resistance to virus without a side effect, is a cumbersome process that isn't always viable at least in 2020.

Need I remind you HIV, the holy shittiest king of all viruses to ever exist, is hitting earth since at least 1980, yet till today ZERO vaccine available (40 fucking years), among other viruses such as Herpes, Hepatitis see, West Nile virus. Etc.

Not to forget to mention the previous two coronaviruses, Mr SARS and Mrs MERS, which were known in 2003/2012 respectively still till this date has zero vaccine or even a mere antiviral treatment. Granted those viruses weren't a pandemic which didn't put a pressure on government to provide a vaccine nevertheless it still shows making vaccine kr antiviral isn't a simple picnic.

Yes, I'm not a virologist, or immunity specialist, as each virus has its own genome either DNA / RNA and its special envelope and proteins, maybe the virology aspect of Coronavirus makes it an ideal target for a future vaccine that I can't give my input in (But again the previous two coronaviruses which were similar in structure still we failed to create a vaccine).

But for the life of me, I hope government don't put all hopes on an imaginary vaccine, HERD immunity is plan A, Vaccine shouldn't be plan A or be or see, it should be as close as plan Z if anything (little hyperbole for emphasis).

The day Germany / Austria / Switz declare no FKK till vaccine is a sad day. The only benefit of lack of FKK is that my wallet for a first time will start to swell, as FKK really damages my bank account, as it's my number 1 nonessential thing to spend all my money.

Kawaii50
04-13-20, 18:54
Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.Could be even worse: No Oral, No Kissing. Only HJ with girl wearing a glove and mask.

Bfsie
04-13-20, 19:41
Another German speaker here, watched the video, found the point in the speech referred to. There was no "analogous" statement or any other implication that prostitution will be forbidden till a vaccination will be available. Absolutely nonsense what that user wrote in the Rheinforum.

It should be obvious to any half sane person though, that under rules of social distancing the big clubs will not re-open until other places of social gathering like bars, dancing clubs will be allowed to re-open as well.

Smaller brothels and girls working independently may find it easier to restart business. Once general quarantine restrictions are removed.Thank you very much for your input. I am very glad there will be no ban on prostitution until a vaccine will be available, because I live in Germany and perhaps would have much more to lose than most of ISGers if there would be a ban.

Turgid
04-13-20, 19:58
Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.Mongering will become more expensive. Sex without a mask will become an extra proposed by the girls in the room.

Sirioja
04-13-20, 20:05
Could be even worse: No Oral, No Kissing. Only HJ with girl wearing a glove and mask.For sure, with no kissing, no good old BJ, no DATY, but masks for both, gloves for both and condom, real erotic, sensual plastic sex, today I was right to prepare bicycle, more enjoyable to rub my balls on seat.

Steve 9696
04-13-20, 21:17
Not that you guys will miss me but I am just going to stop reading this thread for a while. I enjoy reading all the threads of places I've been and will return to. But this thread has become uniquely tedious of all threads worldwide. I recall this happened a year or two ago when 3 or so people just dominated the conversation with oneupmanship. Fortunately it eventually recovered. I hope the same is true here.

See you soon. (I hope).

Polyamorist
04-13-20, 21:36
Mongering will become more expensive. Sex without a mask will become an extra proposed by the girls in the room.Sex without a Hazmat suit will become an extra proposed by the girls in the room.

Or maybe let's stop giving the girls ideas.

BodyAnybody
04-14-20, 00:06
Not that you guys will miss me but I am just going to stop reading this thread for a while. I enjoy reading all the threads of places I've been and will return to. But this thread has become uniquely tedious of all threads worldwide. I recall this happened a year or two ago when 3 or so people just dominated the conversation with oneupmanship. Fortunately it eventually recovered. I hope the same is true here.

See you soon. (I hope).If you think this is bad, don't go to the Tijuana thread.

Kuni042
04-14-20, 01:28
I am also highly unsure if we get a vaccine done. Remember: there is no vaccine against the rhino-viruses (causing the common cold) - nor AIDS.

Also the virus may have mutated by then. And and and.

There is no way out:

I still believe clubs / brothels MUST adapt to the new normal and start planning for the worst. If everything turns out to be gone in March, so what? At least we are then prepared for the next one, e. G. The MaVid-22 (ie the new Marburger virus- only half-assed kidding here) or PoVid-24.


Every government / media talking about a vaccine as if it was, simple candy you buy from a supermarket.

Finding the correct vaccine which confers resistance to virus without a side effect, is a cumbersome process that isn't always viable at least in 2020.

Need I remind you HIV, the holy shittiest king of all viruses to ever exist, is hitting earth since at least 1980, yet till today ZERO vaccine available (40 fucking years), among other viruses such as Herpes, Hepatitis see, West Nile virus. Etc.

Not to forget to mention the previous two coronaviruses, Mr SARS and Mrs MERS, which were known in 2003/2012 respectively still till this date has zero vaccine or even a mere antiviral treatment. Granted those viruses weren't a pandemic which didn't put a pressure on government to provide a vaccine nevertheless it still shows making vaccine kr antiviral isn't a simple picnic.

Yes, I'm not a virologist, or immunity specialist, as each virus has its own genome either DNA / RNA and its special envelope and proteins, maybe the virology aspect of Coronavirus makes it an ideal target for a future vaccine that I can't give my input in (But again the previous two coronaviruses which were similar in structure still we failed to create a vaccine).

But for the life of me, I hope government don't put all hopes on an imaginary vaccine, HERD immunity is plan A, Vaccine shouldn't be plan A or be or see, it should be as close as plan Z if anything (little hyperbole for emphasis).

The day Germany / Austria / Switz declare no FKK till vaccine is a sad day. The only benefit of lack of FKK is that my wallet for a first time will start to swell, as FKK really damages my bank account, as it's my number 1 nonessential thing to spend all my money.

Jonodiera
04-14-20, 01:59
I think the key is testing. Once you can test enough people daily, and I mean like 10% of the population per day so that you can quarantine everyone that gets sick right away, you should be able to get the R0 rate (average number of people each infected person infects) below 1 and the amount of cases will remain under control. You also need to be able to test for antibodies so that some people can be excluded from testing and just go on with life. FKKs will need to have a way to test all their girls and clients. I think this is the trick to FKKs being able to convince the government that they are not causing harm by spreading coronavirus. Today, testing needs to be done in a lab, but the ability to test on the spot and fast is being developed quickly.

Governments understand the importance of testing and it wouldn't surprise me if by summer, the ability to test quickly and on the spot is widespread. I suspect this is the next step in government response.

BTW. If a girl has already had it, she becomes the perfect WG at an FKK. She generally can't get it again and can't spread it to anyone again (assuming covid behaves like most viruses).

Also, sex with a face mask seems dumb. Most infections are caused by touching something that then gets into a your mouth, eye or nose. Can't very well have sex without touching. You can shower afterwards but I would assume you would get it if she had it. However, your genitalia is not really spreading respiratory disease and it doesn't take it in. I mean, how many times have you gotten a blowjob from a girl with a cold and not gotten a cold.

Chongmal
04-14-20, 02:11
Thank you so much for the reply Sirioja. You do not joke in my opinion. Paris Texas is indeed a great movie. It is make believe. Paris Arkansas and Berlin New Jersey really exist. This is no joke. You make faux-pasHmm, having been in University in Texas, I'm familial with the city of Paris Texas. Oops. Search Maps on your smart phone. It will show up North East of Dallas.

I have read your posts on Avigan to treat COVID-19. The USA has started testing of Avigan as a treatment 2 days ago. It was interesting to read that the drug was approved I Japan as an Influenza anti-viral but stockpiled by the government and not released to pharmacies for issue.

Mr Ho
04-14-20, 05:31
For sure, with no kissing, no good old BJ, no DATY, but masks for both, gloves for both and condom, real erotic, sensual plastic sex, today I was right to prepare bicycle, more enjoyable to rub my balls on seat.Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?

Kartoffel
04-14-20, 07:31
Are you serious? Putting mask for sex in brothels, just ridiculous, when many guys ask for sex without condom. Girls don't tell you about? I m only sure about one thing, brothels are risky for health, why Germany made new law, even not really working, but when Italy extend to 3 May, France extend now to 11 May and restaurants, hotels, discotheques wil stay closed until at least mid July. If Germany which seem to manage quite well virus at the moment, allow paid sex soon, then they will have many very bad cases with old, fat, and from other diseases. They should then compete very fast with US. Guys who are not sure to be strongly healthy, should stay away, same if they have fragile relatives and don't want to lose them. New risky world now in FKK land.You can be fit + healthy and catch the virus without any obvious symptoms. The only possible way is immunity, if that really works.

Sebastiane
04-14-20, 10:09
Can the Admin perhaps create a separate thread for Coronavirus discussions and move all the posts to it --thus leaving this to the discussion of FKKs, girls and pay6?

I come to this forum to relax, not to discuss what I can do in the comments section of the Guardian or any newspaper!

Sirioja
04-14-20, 11:14
Yes. Some forms of sex games won't be safe. It is a bit at anyone's own risk. Similar risk exists in disco-dance clubs, if the dancers are starting to tongue-kiss, right? Similar risks exists in massage parlors (real ones), hair cutters, physio-therapists, etc.Brothels were already risky about Chlamydia which is really not good for wives about pregnancy, or some other diseases, not even telling once more about HIV when AO, but will be Russian roulette now if You are not protected versus virus. Best protection will be to have recovered from, because who can know when vaccine will be efficient, when many problems in France about grippe vaccine. If no self protection, I don t see how can protect for sex, then can catch and even give to relatives. In France, we are confined until 11 May and we have a problem, not even telling about economic crisis and unemployment, but only less than 15% people were in contact with virus and about 5% only are considered as protected from recovering, this meaning so many people can still catch it after 4 weeks confined, when risk start to be under control when 60% were in contact, so we are very far to be able to control virus, but just able to try to save life and some who arrive in hospitals, nobody was refused in France, have lungs destroyed by virus and doctors can't do anything, only to give them pills for pain when they can't anymore breathe.

Mr Ho
04-14-20, 13:21
Hmm, having been in University in Texas, I'm familial with the city of Paris Texas. Oops. Search Maps on your smart phone. It will show up North East of Dallas.

I have read your posts on Avigan to treat COVID-19. The USA has started testing of Avigan as a treatment 2 days ago. It was interesting to read that the drug was approved I Japan as an Influenza anti-viral but stockpiled by the government and not released to pharmacies for issue.Avigan can only work for mild symptom, but better than nothing and Japan is giving out for free.

Till vaccines comes out, it may help a bit, hopefully. I hear it is expected to take about 1. 5 years for vaccines to be invented. Will world economy and FKK owners cash flow last for that long?

What are FKK cost when it is closed. Around 20 employees like reception, security etc. Property tax or rent if they are renting place etc. Maybe many new ownership to FKK after this crisis.

BigBuddy69
04-14-20, 13:40
Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?No it's not. It's only allowed if you stay around your home (max. 1 km) for maximum one hour.

Mr Ho
04-14-20, 14:25
You can be fit + healthy and catch the virus without any obvious symptoms. The only possible way is immunity, if that really works.Just like STD, but never caught anything in FKK.

Mr Ho
04-14-20, 14:26
I think the key is testing. Once you can test enough people daily, and I mean like 10% of the population per day so that you can quarantine everyone that gets sick right away, you should be able to get the R0 rate (average number of people each infected person infects) below 1 and the amount of cases will remain under control. You also need to be able to test for antibodies so that some people can be excluded from testing and just go on with life. FKKs will need to have a way to test all their girls and clients. I think this is the trick to FKKs being able to convince the government that they are not causing harm by spreading coronavirus. Today, testing needs to be done in a lab, but the ability to test on the spot and fast is being developed quickly.

Governments understand the importance of testing and it wouldn't surprise me if by summer, the ability to test quickly and on the spot is widespread. I suspect this is the next step in government response.

BTW. If a girl has already had it, she becomes the perfect WG at an FKK. She generally can't get it again and can't spread it to anyone again (assuming covid behaves like most viruses).

Also, sex with a face mask seems dumb. Most infections are caused by touching something that then gets into a your mouth, eye or nose. Can't very well have sex without touching. You can shower afterwards but I would assume you would get it if she had it. However, your genitalia is not really spreading respiratory disease and it doesn't take it in. I mean, how many times have you gotten a blowjob from a girl with a cold and not gotten a cold.There will be major cluster infections at hospital if you do that. It is important to stay home, close your eyes, imagine the time you had in FKK, use your imagination well for once and make good use of your right hand LOL!

Turgid
04-14-20, 14:32
Can the Admin perhaps create a separate thread for Coronavirus discussions and move all the posts to it --thus leaving this to the discussion of FKKs, girls and pay6?

I come to this forum to relax, not to discuss what I can do in the comments section of the Guardian or any newspaper!This is true so please Mr. Sebastiane could you help people like me who come to this forum to relax by telling us your current experiences in FKK clubs in Germany now?

MaxSquatter
04-14-20, 21:24
One possible idea is for FKK's at first to only use their outdoor areas to placate to government rules. Many have huts and cabins and people could just stay outside maybe under tent structures for shade, eating, drinking then pick out the girl and go to the hut with her. Hopefully if need be they can do this and get this shit going again.

Sirioja
04-14-20, 21:31
Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?I have no pleasure to bicycle in bois de Boulogne among prostitutes, and along Seine is really beautiful but not climby enough for me, I need to enjoy my beautiful mountains to be motivated. I just prepare my best Summer pleasure, to forget no ski so big frustration, killing mood, no desire to go to fuck escorts. I also listen to music, you should listen to Bowie funny it's no game from ashes to ashes, when he played with Carlos Alomar and Earl Slick, it was before great Turkish Erdal Kizilcay and Gail Ann Dorsey, for daddy, as they joked. Also Led Zeppelin with legendary Jimi Paige and forever, since I learned to play football, Californian Toto with family Porcaro, 3 brothers playing, pity Jeff who was the boss, but died at only 38 from cocaine, but they are with me, since St George and the dragon, for 42 years, I m faithful for everything, like for WGs. Other kind of pleasures, far from my huge week end datcha.

Sirioja
04-14-20, 21:33
One possible idea is for FKK's at first to only use their outdoor areas to placate to government rules. Many have huts and cabins and people could just stay outside maybe under tent structures for shade, eating, drinking then pick out the girl and go to the hut with her. Hopefully if need be they can do this and get this shit going again.And one girl infected will kill how many old, fat, diabetic, tired heart, smoker?

Sirioja
04-14-20, 21:41
You can be fit + healthy and catch the virus without any obvious symptoms. The only possible way is immunity, if that really works.Everybody and even children can catch it, even tigers in NYC zoo, but being fit, healthy, not smoker will help to survive. To my opinion, old, fat and not healthy will now play Russian roulettes in brothels, when will be impossible to blood test everybody and other tests, most from China, are not reliable. Best safety is to have recovered from.

Den Haag
04-14-20, 22:54
Can the Admin perhaps create a separate thread for Coronavirus discussions and move all the posts to it --thus leaving this to the discussion of FKKs, girls and pay6?
I come to this forum to relax, not to discuss what I can do in the comments section of the Guardian or any news-paper!
This is true so please Mr. Sebastiane could you help people like me who come to this forum to relax by telling us your current experiences in FKK clubs in Germany now?Please spare true members any bogus confrontation which is so not good. It is as Mr. Trump says "fake news". We know. Why not just send private message to Admin and request for a separate thread for Coronavirus? Why drama? No need. If nuclear bomb were about to fall on planet and FKK closed, some sad guy would be writing about it here even though only 5 seconds to live remaining. Same with virus talk with no finish. Ridiculous. Boring. But yes, separate Coronavirus thread is needed for all of ISG. To keep this chat in one place. Just like safe sex thread for all ISG. This would be so perfect.

The Cane
04-14-20, 23:06
Another theory, as put forth by the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/.

Sirioja
04-15-20, 01:20
I have no pleasure to bicycle in bois de Boulogne among prostitutes, and along Seine is really beautiful but not climby enough for me, I need to enjoy my beautiful mountains to be motivated. I just prepare my best Summer pleasure, to forget no ski so big frustration, killing mood, no desire to go to fuck escorts. I also listen to music, you should listen to Bowie funny it's no game from ashes to ashes, when he played with Carlos Alomar and Earl Slick, it was before great Turkish Erdal Kizilcay and Gail Ann Dorsey, for daddy, as they joked. Also Led Zeppelin with legendary Jimi Paige and forever, since I learned to play football, Californian Toto with family Porcaro, 3 brothers playing, pity Jeff who was the boss, but died at only 38 from cocaine, but they are with me, since St George and the dragon, for 42 years, I m faithful for everything, like for WGs. Other kind of pleasures, far from my huge week end datcha.My song for the moment, from Toto: girl goodbye.

Sirioja
04-15-20, 01:36
Please spare true members any bogus confrontation which is so not good. It is as Mr. Trump says "fake news". We know. Why not just send private message to Admin and request for a separate thread for Coronavirus? Why drama? No need. If nuclear bomb were about to fall on planet and FKK closed, some sad guy would be writing about it here even though only 5 seconds to live remaining. Same with virus talk with no finish. Ridiculous. Boring. But yes, separate Coronavirus thread is needed for all of ISG. To keep this chat in one place. Just like safe sex thread for all ISG. This would be so perfect.Do you have new interesting experience to tell us about FKK at the moment? More interesting than how virus is impacting all over the world with so many deaths and unemployed, some in US or Italy who don t have to eat. At the moment, virus interest me more than brohels, much more interesting than prostitutes. Since a while, I m discovering I m able to live without sex, I waited to go to a Russian escort to be able to re start my job, needing 2 weeks, and again 2 weeks since then. Now I m preparing my mind for my Summer tour, also more interesting than brothels for me, and my girls know they can t compete with ski and bicycle. Will be so happy to see my Dolomiti friends, Im happy they are safe.

Tropea317
04-15-20, 06:08
I'm not saying that cvirus its not dangerous.

It s especially for middle aged and old men.

I m 55 from Italy.

But right now I smell the same stink when HIV outbreaks in '80.

They said you can catch from a kiss from, from a lick etc.

Instead the top danger is from a transfusion or at the dentist.

Now everyone knows that the most dangerous is a bareback sodomitation, for the receivers.

So poisoned my best fucking years.

Austria will be out soon, maybe restart FKK in July, but for sure not for Italy.

Italy not have FKK, only lousy ***** in apartments.

Sirioja
04-15-20, 06:51
Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?Going outside to make sport is now, since about 1 week, forbidden in Paris and close west suburb, from 10 am to 7 pm. And doctors tell when making sport, better to stay about 8 meters away from others, when you see crowded Central Park or Hyde Park. After 1 month confined, would have saved about 3000 life when would be 16000 deaths today. And hundreds billions € lost or spent. How will it be paid? Because somebody always have to pay at the end. FKK are only second ranking thinking. Even before virus, no pleasure for sport in Paris, among cars, I prefer my friends marmots, they are so fat on Summer.

Mr Ho
04-15-20, 13:54
Going outside to make sport is now, since about 1 week, forbidden in Paris and close west suburb, from 10 am to 7 pm. And doctors tell when making sport, better to stay about 8 meters away from others, when you see crowded Central Park or Hyde Park. After 1 month confined, would have saved about 3000 life when would be 16000 deaths today. And hundreds billions lost or spent. How will it be paid? Because somebody always have to pay at the end. FKK are only second ranking thinking. Even before virus, no pleasure for sport in Paris, among cars, I prefer my friends marmots, they are so fat on Summer.It is like prison literally.

Mr Ho
04-15-20, 14:39
I have no pleasure to bicycle in bois de Boulogne among prostitutes, and along Seine is really beautiful but not climby enough for me, I need to enjoy my beautiful mountains to be motivated. I just prepare my best Summer pleasure, to forget no ski so big frustration, killing mood, no desire to go to fuck escorts. I also listen to music, you should listen to Bowie funny it's no game from ashes to ashes, when he played with Carlos Alomar and Earl Slick, it was before great Turkish Erdal Kizilcay and Gail Ann Dorsey, for daddy, as they joked. Also Led Zeppelin with legendary Jimi Paige and forever, since I learned to play football, Californian Toto with family Porcaro, 3 brothers playing, pity Jeff who was the boss, but died at only 38 from cocaine, but they are with me, since St George and the dragon, for 42 years, I m faithful for everything, like for WGs. Other kind of pleasures, far from my huge week end datcha.Datcha as in russian second house retreat like with sauna?

Bicycle, you often take your bicycle to your FKK trip right? You got stamina, you drive, bike and fuck and sleep in car over weekend for your FKK trip and you are back in office on Monday?

Downandup
04-15-20, 19:56
From next week, Germany is going to start relaxing the lockdown very slowly. https://www.thelocal.de/20200415/latest-germany-to-begin-easing-coronavirus-curbs-in-coming-weeks It's a small start with openings staged like schools on May 4.

Sirioja
04-15-20, 22:57
Datcha as in russian second house retreat like with sauna?

Bicycle, you often take your bicycle to your FKK trip right? You got stamina, you drive, bike and fuck and sleep in car over weekend for your FKK trip and you are back in office on Monday?I don't bicycle more in Germany than in Paris, because not interesting, but I remember driving from Dusseldorf to French Alps or Mont Ventoux, more than 1000 kms, through Switzerland, at night, to climb on next day, since nearly 10 years, I m afraid to sleep, I relax and rest more full speeding. Sometimes, I sleep few seconds, micro sleep, under BJ, I remember one at World, when I took her at 3 am, asking me: you don't like? I liked, she made me rest for few seconds. But when you don't sleep, you have more time to live.

Kel Varnsen
04-16-20, 09:52
Here you will find a quick overview (in German) of the current status: https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockerungs-plan-der-bundesregierung-so-legt-deutschland-langsam-wieder-los-70068100.bild.html.

I'm encouraged by the fact that brothels seem to be treated quite similarly to bars, discos, clubs etc and are for the time being closed until May 3. This means the restrictions will be reviewed every two to three weeks, and possibly also on a state by state basis. I am almost certain they will be closed for longer than May 3. , but at least they have not been banned until August 31, as has happened with concerts, festivals and other large events.

Of course, another current obstacle for us non-Germans will be the travel restrictions and restrictions of hotel bookings for tourist purposes. Even if these start to get eased off somewhat, one may still be subject to two weeks of self-quarantine upon arrival in Germany and / or when returning home.

We'll just have to wait and see. The positive thing from yesterday is that (currently at least) we are not seeing a ban on FKKs until end of summer and beyond.

Pessimist
04-16-20, 14:58
Finally, Japan acknowledges the reality. I know Mr Ho was proud of his country but the reality is that no one is immune and it is better to tackle this virus earlier than later. Japan is not fully locking down as we did in some places in the West. Perhaps they will do so eventually. But cases are growing fast, and they will find even more positive infections as they ramp their testing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-to-declare-nationwide-state-of-emergency-11587027219?mod=hp_lead_pos3

Sebastiane
04-16-20, 16:53
Here you will find a quick overview (in German) of the current status: https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockerungs-plan-der-bundesregierung-so-legt-deutschland-langsam-wieder-los-70068100.bild.html.

I'm encouraged by the fact that brothels seem to be treated quite similarly to bars, discos, clubs etc and are for the time being closed until May 3. This means the restrictions will be reviewed every two to three weeks, and possibly also on a state by state basis. I am almost certain they will be closed for longer than May 3. , but at least they have not been banned until August 31, as has happened with concerts, festivals and other large events.

Of course, another current obstacle for us non-Germans will be the travel restrictions and restrictions of hotel bookings for tourist purposes. Even if these start to get eased off somewhat, one may still be subject to two weeks of self-quarantine upon arrival in Germany and / or when returning home.

We'll just have to wait and see. The positive thing from yesterday is that (currently at least) we are not seeing a ban on FKKs until end of summer and beyond.Yes, it does seem by some point in May / June we should be back to normal as far as FKKs are concerned.

Chongmal
04-16-20, 17:02
I just read an interesting article about the resurgence of COVID-19 in Japan. It compared the initial success to that of South Korea (ROK). Continuing it highlighted the difference between ROK and Japan. ROK has maintained an aggressive testing campaign and Japan has been conducting minimal testing. In ROK the elections were dominated by the party that controlled the COVID-19 response. I read in Japan a nation wide state of emergency has been declared. Interestingly, in the US news the story Mr Ho told of the virus escaping from the Wuhan Lab is being echoed. Hmmm.

On another note, this virus doesn't care about your health, how many miles you drive to cycle 20000 km per year and ski down 10000 km vertical elevation. It can get into your system, on your clothes, in your car and jump off to numerous people who may cross your path. Remember the ancient Chinese concept, Six degrees of separation. Yes, I know, Hollywood has stolen it, bands have stolen it. But it is Chinese. I'm the fat, American, with diabetes, high blood pressure, heart failure. I'm also the guy who would go to a club and spend 3 hours in the room with Kitty 3 days after having angioplasty. Yes, I had to take some breaks but I didn't mind paying for the time with her, and I feel a bit sorry for the fellows who had to wait.

Will the German and Dutch clients who meet the same description as me return to GT, absolutely, and I will join them. We will be welcomed back by management and the ladies. GT is familiar with the procedure to call the wagon to pick up the tote.

Speaking of GT ladies, I forgot to mention Kate in my top sessions there, and also at Velbert. She did something no other lady had done. While I was giving her my best, she reached for my arm and guided my hand to her throat. Shortly after she washed my dick and balls with her orgasmus. Whoever taught her this, thank you.

Sirioja
04-16-20, 20:25
Maybe brothels which are mostly Romanian business, with big money leaving Germany to Romania, are not major point at the moment in Germany, even they manage quite well, but would they be able to manage spreading in brothels land, with a girl fucked more than 5 times per day, with guys from Asia, even EU borders should be closed for months.

Mr Ho
04-16-20, 23:06
I just read an interesting article about the resurgence of COVID-19 in Japan. It compared the initial success to that of South Korea (ROK). Continuing it highlighted the difference between ROK and Japan. ROK has maintained an aggressive testing campaign and Japan has been conducting minimal testing. In ROK the elections were dominated by the party that controlled the COVID-19 response. I read in Japan a nation wide state of emergency has been declared. Interestingly, in the US news the story Mr Ho told of the virus escaping from the Wuhan Lab is being echoed. Hmmm.

On another note, this virus doesn't care about your health, how many miles you drive to cycle 20000 km per year and ski down 10000 km vertical elevation. It can get into your system, on your clothes, in your car and jump off to numerous people who may cross your path. Remember the ancient Chinese concept, Six degrees of separation. Yes, I know, Hollywood has stolen it, bands have stolen it. But it is Chinese. I'm the fat, American, with diabetes, high blood pressure, heart failure. I'm also the guy who would go to a club and spend 3 hours in the room with Kitty 3 days after having angioplasty. Yes, I had to take some breaks but I didn't mind paying for the time with her, and I feel a bit sorry for the fellows who had to wait.

Will the German and Dutch clients who meet the same description as me return to GT, absolutely, and I will join them. We will be welcomed back by management and the ladies. GT is familiar with the procedure to call the wagon to pick up the tote..Well, one thing Japan failed is that we did not block foreign visitors till like around March including Chinese visitors. As for lock down we cannot force people here, but we have about 70 to 80 % less movement of people according to google and yahoo using their GPS system. Plus we need to secure cash to secure employments people around world as we have mega companies who employ millions of people around world, and corona also kill people financially, so keeping these mega companies alive is also important to save lives and keep world moving during global lock down. So we do balanced lock down.

As for medicine, we have avigan that is made by fuji film Japan and it is working on mild symptom people, but we are saving it for later in most cases till patients are admitted into hospital and we don't take everyone in to protect medical infrastructure. We are giving avigan for free including to Germany as they requested, it is in mass production now and it is ready to be shipped to around 20 nations so far for free in May.

As for test, we don't test everyone as it will only cause people to rush to hospitals and lead to cluster infections and eventually death and destruction of medical infrastructure. However, we strongly focus on avoiding death as we can save people by acting properly, which include not testing everyone as they request, but make them stay home.

As for lab, I still believe it is leaked or some kind of misconduct of dead testing animal body after lab use in Wuhan, there is lab near fish market there. Of course it is not deliberate, Chinese government is not crazy as doing such thing on purpose. But their rapid movements in south China sea is still going on and our submarine and battle ships has to deployed, so they are provoking during this crisis too especially after one of US air craft carrier has been disabled with corona infection.

Japan still are more or less normal beside now most shops and restaurants are closed and apparently Japanese government is giving about 1000 USD per person with no condition, so that is good news, it is almost two FKK days for me, it is ashamed FKK is closed to spend that 1000 USD on fucking German or Romanian beautiful girls to pump up my immune system LOL!

Sirioja
04-16-20, 23:43
Finally, Japan acknowledges the reality. I know Mr Ho was proud of his country but the reality is that no one is immune and it is better to tackle this virus earlier than later. Japan is not fully locking down as we did in some places in the West. Perhaps they will do so eventually. But cases are growing fast, and they will find even more positive infections as they ramp their testing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-to-declare-nationwide-state-of-emergency-11587027219?mod=hp_lead_pos3No country is above, US and UK are down under virus. I'm sad for my country when we will be much over 20000, with so many unemployed and economy will be down under. If I could, I would go on 3500 meters high Girose glacier on top of La Grave La Meije, would make a hole in snow, would go in and stay there, at least wonderful there. I miss so much not being there on this Winter, my paradise.

Polyamorist
04-17-20, 00:15
Another theory, as put forth by the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/.Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.

Mr Ho
04-17-20, 03:46
Finally, Japan acknowledges the reality. I know Mr Ho was proud of his country but the reality is that no one is immune and it is better to tackle this virus earlier than later. Japan is not fully locking down as we did in some places in the West. Perhaps they will do so eventually. But cases are growing fast, and they will find even more positive infections as they ramp their testing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-to-declare-nationwide-state-of-emergency-11587027219?mod=hp_lead_pos3Well, the reality is the situation here is actually fine, man I live here LOL. Shops are closed and restaurants are closed mostly, but rest are almost as it was beside much less people on the street. But let see how it will turn out, we had this since January from China longer than west, and we are doing much better, I mean look at the mess in some western nations, it is crazy.

Again, we cannot fully lock down, it is democratic nation here, we cannot force people to stay home legally, but we can legally ask and disciplined as Japanese are, we are more or less following.

Travel the world once this is over and know the world, and don't just swallow media. When fukushima happened, many western media were reporting people were coughing blood in Tokyo. Nobody was coughing blood in Tokyo or even in fukushima LOL, day after fukushima, I went and bought new computers I remember LOL.

Western media are trying to put the eyes on other nations for their mess up, I mean look at New York, it is war zone now if what I am seeing about their hospitals on their own media are true. Also Spain, Italy etc. Italy do not deserve to be in G7 after this, they do not have infrastructure to be in G7. For the record I love Italy.

Sirioja
04-17-20, 08:27
Yes, it does seem by some point in May / June we should be back to normal as far as FKKs are concerned.Anyway EU borders should be closed for months. If FKK can really reopen soon, I doubt for quite soon because risky places, when Germans don t give enough and not big money enough business, some Asian hunters should miss their easy business. Wait and see for what will be FKK future. On 13/14 March, Sharks reminded me a bit what it was on 2014/2015, even not same level for looks, but I was lucky to see German Tabea just starting and initiate her for her first room at Sharks, for 1 full hour, kissing all along, with a bad guy like me. Long time, I didn't have such enjoyment at Sharks, even had already 2 high level rooms on this year, 1 with real woman Vivien, but too professional for a little terror in bed as she said, when Tabea was so fresh behavior for sex, not a German robot, kind of Romanian passion. My pleasure to pay for this level.

Sirioja
04-17-20, 10:35
Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.When will be much more than 100.000 deaths in US and Western Europe, when we receive tests which are for 60% not reliable, in France a 16 yo girl was tested twice negative in hospital, but died from covid, UK received 3,5 millions tests not reliable, for our safety, for our health, for our standards of quality and reliability, for our economy, maybe Western world should think very fast not to be anymore so dependent about East, when we really don t have same standards. Only Japan is on our standards for quality even different culture and way of life. Same like in brothels, cheap is expensive for me when low quality. A GND for 50 is more expensive for me than a wow for more than 50 . Of course, many WGs are happy with East level, for big money easy business, not caring much about virus, but they are out of real life, this is not a real job, just for fast money.

Citizen Kane
04-17-20, 12:30
Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.I think the CCP intentionally let the virus escape outside of China (not inside) because they knew it was going to be a massive problem for the country and at least if the rest of the world had it to, it would level the playing field.

Kuni042
04-17-20, 12:32
Germany's border is still open for dutch and belgian. I personally find this totally nuts. It shows that the good numbers are not driven by great politicians, but simply by luck, and great testing.


Anyway EU borders should be closed for months. If FKK can really reopen soon, I doubt for quite soon because risky places, when Germans don t give enough and not big money enough business, some Asian hunters should miss their easy business. Wait and see for what will be FKK future. On 13/14 March, Sharks reminded me a bit what it was on 2014/2015, even not same level for looks, but I was lucky to see German Tabea just starting and initiate her for her first room at Sharks, for 1 full hour, kissing all along, with a bad guy like me. Long time, I didn't have such enjoyment at Sharks, even had already 2 high level rooms on this year, 1 with real woman Vivien, but too professional for a little terror in bed as she said, when Tabea was so fresh behavior for sex, not a German robot, kind of Romanian passion. My pleasure to pay for this level.

Pessimist
04-17-20, 13:21
Well, the reality is the situation here is actually fine, man I live here LOL. Shops are closed and restaurants are closed mostly, but rest are almost as it was beside much less people on the street. But let see how it will turn out, we had this since January from China longer than west, and we are doing much better, I mean look at the mess in some western nations, it is crazy.

Again, we cannot fully lock down, it is democratic nation here, we cannot force people to stay home legally, but we can legally ask and disciplined as Japanese are, we are more or less following.

Travel the world once this is over and know the world, and don't just swallow media. When fukushima happened, many western media were reporting people were coughing blood in Tokyo. Nobody was coughing blood in Tokyo or even in fukushima LOL, day after fukushima, I went and bought new computers I remember LOL.

Western media are trying to put the eyes on other nations for their mess up, I mean look at New York, it is war zone now if what I am seeing about their hospitals on their own media are true. Also Spain, Italy etc. Italy do not deserve to be in G7 after this, they do not have infrastructure to be in G7. For the record I love Italy.I have traveled to Japan, Mr. Ho. Not this year, but in my lifetime, yes. BTW, you say don't trust the media reports and then you say "look at NY! It is a war zone, Spain, Italy, etc". Did you travel to those countries this year, or are your comments based on what you read in media?

Japan per capita GDP is only 10% higher than Italy, per World Bank. Perhaps you don't trust World Bank also, because you may not trust any source that does not show Japan at the top. UK and France are richer than Japan on per capita GDP, Germany is 20% higher than Japan, and US is 50% higher. I can give you the link if you want to see it yourself.

Anyway, it is good to know that life feels normal to you in Japan. We do not wish them any bad things, Americans feel Japan is an ally.

Mr Ho
04-17-20, 14:24
Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.If you were then maybe yes, but I think Chinese government and riches that belong to them will begin to buy out weaken foreign companies once this crisis is over.

Plus Chinese navy is making rapid moves now in south China sea especially after one of US aircraft carrier is taken out by corona virus.

Chinese government is part of so called red team, so they only see weakness as opportunity.

Sirioja
04-17-20, 15:55
Well, the reality is the situation here is actually fine, man I live here LOL. Shops are closed and restaurants are closed mostly, but rest are almost as it was beside much less people on the street. But let see how it will turn out, we had this since January from China longer than west, and we are doing much better, I mean look at the mess in some western nations, it is crazy.

Again, we cannot fully lock down, it is democratic nation here, we cannot force people to stay home legally, but we can legally ask and disciplined as Japanese are, we are more or less following.

Travel the world once this is over and know the world, and don't just swallow media. When fukushima happened, many western media were reporting people were coughing blood in Tokyo. Nobody was coughing blood in Tokyo or even in fukushima LOL, day after fukushima, I went and bought new computers I remember LOL.

Western media are trying to put the eyes on other nations for their mess up, I mean look at New York, it is war zone now if what I am seeing about their hospitals on their own media are true. Also Spain, Italy etc. Italy do not deserve to be in G7 after this, they do not have infrastructure to be in G7. For the record I love Italy.Ho,

Most powerful country is not Japan, but US and they are down under virus, unemployment and misery for many. My meaning is no country is above, not even my country. In France, doctors use chloroquine and pills used for HIV to try to save worst cases, we have free beds, the highest level medical equipment, I would not go in any other country for medical level, nevertheless, unfortunately, every day too many people die from covid in french hospitals and doctors can t save them. 80 % are more than 70 and for others, 67% had health problems. In my opinion, except maybe Germany, but all others in G7 are losing the war. Italy were first, US don t manage better, no competition, but big defeat with so many deaths. Only interesting point for me is virus show how is society in our country. To defeat this virus, society is more important than medical level and pills.

Sirioja
04-17-20, 19:44
Germany's border is still open for dutch and belgian. I personally find this totally nuts. It shows that the good numbers are not driven by great politicians, but simply by luck, and great testing.Small Belgium have more than 5000 deaths now, for 11 millions people, versus less than 5000 in big Germany. More 3000 in NL. This is Europe. My meaning was borders should stay closed for a while between Europe and outside.

Under pressure, China found many more deaths and I m sure they should find more.

Kartoffel
04-17-20, 21:17
Ten to fifteen times more, probably.

The Cane
04-17-20, 22:43
The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".

Pistons
04-18-20, 00:03
Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.Or as half-Chinese Gordon Chang puts it in an interview recently: They decided to use it as a weapon in order to level the financial playing field after they first saw how badly it had hit themselves.

Mr Ho
04-18-20, 01:01
Ho,

Most powerful country is not Japan, but US and they are down under virus, unemployment and misery for many. My meaning is no country is above, not even my country. In France, doctors use chloroquine and pills used for HIV to try to save worst cases, we have free beds, the highest level medical equipment, I would not go in any other country for medical level, nevertheless, unfortunately, every day too many people die from covid in french hospitals and doctors can t save them. 80 % are more than 70 and for others, 67% had health problems. In my opinion, except maybe Germany, but all others in G7 are losing the war. Italy were first, US don t manage better, no competition, but big defeat with so many deaths. Only interesting point for me is virus show how is society in our country. To defeat this virus, society is more important than medical level and pills.I know USA is the most powerful nation in the world. And Japan and USA are best friend. I think at least G7 should get along on intellectual manner because most nations are on same level on intellect, manner, culture, civilization, technology, medical etc. But we all are different as well.

Japan do not have this white western ego of invading world, we tend to be more team player than west, but west tend to have attitude most of time, and we most have to time adjust the behavior.

For Medic in G7, Japan, Germany and USA has the most of pharma and medical equipment companies that are top notch, but we all sell and collaborate with each other, so hospital levels are all similar level with similar equipment, it is just that some nations are more organized than others, which showed in this case. Japan focused on death rate, not so much on infection rate which is hard to control, but death we can control by protecting medical system and let those who can be fixed to stay home with medication like Avigan made by Fuji film Japan.

Avigan works for first 6 weeks of symptom so far, but it is not medicine made for this, it was made for bird influenza, so bat is close.

Mr Ho
04-18-20, 04:21
I have traveled to Japan, Mr. Ho. Not this year, but in my lifetime, yes. BTW, you say don't trust the media reports and then you say "look at NY! It is a war zone, Spain, Italy, etc". Did you travel to those countries this year, or are your comments based on what you read in media?

Japan per capita GDP is only 10% higher than Italy, per World Bank. Perhaps you don't trust World Bank also, because you may not trust any source that does not show Japan at the top. UK and France are richer than Japan on per capita GDP, Germany is 20% higher than Japan, and US is 50% higher. I can give you the link if you want to see it yourself.

Anyway, it is good to know that life feels normal to you in Japan. We do not wish them any bad things, Americans feel Japan is an ally.USA is out biggest and best ally and this will be so forever.

Look, Japan, USA, Germany are the biggest countries by far with our structures of the nation, we cover all major areas of industries from medical, technologies to even fashion to whatever you want to name and when it comes to Nobel award, we are the only Asian nation who keep on winning Nobel award is most prestigious area which is chemistry and physics. However, if you are in G5 nations before G7, these G5 nations are most civilized even though we have different culture.

It is not all GDP, it is just number, if you believe G7 is just GDP, then you need to wake up little bit with propaganda. G7 is not just GDP as they claim it is. Don't believe in all things they throw at you. Look, with your logic, China would be in G7 long time ago, but there is reason why China is not in G7. Either way, only nation which is bigger capacity than Japan is USA and it will always will be and it should be USA who is king of this world. China is big, but it is just a size, quantity, but no quality.

Italy is good country, I love their food, culture and people, I traveled from calabria in south to few cities in north for holiday, but not this year, do I have to go to these nations every year, if I don't go you use it as your argument point? LOL USA too, I been to many cities in USA both east and west and even sedona Arizona and Utah etc. For holiday, but man again do I have to go every year? This year I went to doha, Budapest and zurich and yes it was good my dick getting sucked LOL!

Don't believe in everything that is written, we are fine so far and we had this much longer than you since China is right next to us, but that does not mean it is going to be OK and we are trying to prepare ourselves with best of our abilities, but expecting difficult time ahead, I hope we are going to be OK, but we are not so hopeful.

And hey, be kind to Japan, it is a small nation in far east that rose to be top nation bigger than most beside USA with our intellect, hard work, team work, good quality, creativity, and most importantly honest among other things, we did not build all these mega companies for no solid reason as good intelligent nation. In Europe, German has similar structure to Japan, they also cover most area of industries, some they are bigger, but in most we are bigger whether it is banks, fashion or whatever. Let see, now Japan we going to open door to immigration, something we did not do till recently, we studied from European mistakes, so let see if immigration will work out fine with Japan in few decades time, we try to choose more carefully than Europe, arguably LOL.

Mr Ho
04-18-20, 05:44
The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".For any country, it is hard to control infection rate, I mean only thing fed can do is ask or force people to stay home which they have done, but some entities has to go on like infrastructure related companies, mega companies, transportation etc.

But we can control the death rate by not destroying medical infrastructure and also having good hospital to begin with. There are very few nations who can cope with such sudden required production of medical equipment like life supporting system, artificial lung system etc. Only nations with good high tech industries.

Sirioja
04-18-20, 09:50
I know USA is the most powerful nation in the world. And Japan and USA are best friend. I think at least G7 should get along on intellectual manner because most nations are on same level on intellect, manner, culture, civilization, technology, medical etc. But we all are different as well.

Japan do not have this white western ego of invading world, we tend to be more team player than west, but west tend to have attitude most of time, and we most have to time adjust the behavior.

For Medic in G7, Japan, Germany and USA has the most of pharma and medical equipment companies that are top notch, but we all sell and collaborate with each other, so hospital levels are all similar level with similar equipment, it is just that some nations are more organized than others, which showed in this case. Japan focused on death rate, not so much on infection rate which is hard to control, but death we can control by protecting medical system and let those who can be fixed to stay home with medication like Avigan made by Fuji film Japan.

Avigan works for first 6 weeks of symptom so far, but it is not medicine made for this, it was made for bird influenza, so bat is close.But most powerful is not able to manage virus, with their town number 1 giving scary images to the world, with fridge trucks in streets, with Hart island for poor. I really don t wish them, because I would probably not be French without them, Europe might be very different without them, but I m afraid they could be over 50000 deaths, with so many poor who can t afford to go to hospital, keeping on working to have to eat, when unemployment is exploding there. When the most powerful is the worst since weeks. Of course, we won't compare to China, because I think everybody and our politics understood what kind of danger they can be. Have now to think about less dependence and more protection, we are not in same world. Virus is like miror for our society, much more than our medical level, and they are discovering in France, when 80% deaths are over 70 yo, and 67% under 70 had already health problems, but 50% of the worst cases under 70 are suffering obesity, even in France, more and more obese, eating on US way since they are child: MacDo for gift in foods, Cola, when we have best gastronomy in France, but US culture spreading in France, making more and more obese who are vulnerable to virus. This virus would not only kill fragile lungs, but could also infect blood for some cases when doctors didn't understand what happened for some quite young, seeming healthy, who died. I wish, if we lost, but at least could learn from what happen. As we say in sport, we learn more from a defeat than when we win.

Tropea317
04-18-20, 12:03
So make the picture.

Austria and Germany quickly to a new normality.

And don t forget that Germany have a big Pharma industry for all the equipment e the vaccine.

For the hospital never had ICU problem.

So poor Italy, please don't censored this because I m Italian, with its lousy health system and politicians, e 1/3 of the country mafialand. Will be the first to entry in crisis and the last to exit.

For 1 or 2 years no more Italian customers in FKK.

Mr Ho
04-18-20, 13:43
Finally, US is seeking to investigate laboratory in Wuhan I have been saying from the beginning. I do not think it was deliberately leaked, but leaked by mistake due to misconduct.

It was originally french who helped Chinese to make this lab and french backed off, then Chinese just began running the lab themselves. If french stayed on to managed the plant, it would have been better managed lab, but let see if USA can prove that it was leaked. I don't think it will be opened to public though, they will just use it as a car for foreign affair negotiation against Chinese, which USA should do.

Sirioja
04-18-20, 17:52
Finally, US is seeking to investigate laboratory in Wuhan I have been saying from the beginning. I do not think it was deliberately leaked, but leaked by mistake due to misconduct.

It was originally french who helped Chinese to make this lab and french backed off, then Chinese just began running the lab themselves. If french stayed on to managed the plant, it would have been better managed lab, but let see if USA can prove that it was leaked. I don't think it will be opened to public though, they will just use it as a car for foreign affair negotiation against Chinese, which USA should do.China claim US brought it, US claim other, don't believe all what is told or written, same than here. I just think now the world know China lied to protect their already falling economy and keeping on producing not reliable tests, with people tested negative and dying from covid. I think this is now time to protect versus lies, not to be so dependant about safety, health. We don t all have same standards and level for quality, reliability. Now, this is new world with virus working around, not so sure even having recovered will make full safe, even french doctors think to use plasma to cure. I think FKK land will now be risky playfield if you are not a survivor healthy warrior with no relatives, because when will reopen, even with EU borders closed for months, but such playfield to spread so fast and around when returning at home, but as I went to a escort under confined, but since more than 2 weeks now, I look if she is still available and I m happy for her she is, when she is only 19, too young to die from virus in Paris, as soon it will reopen, I will go to Germany, Switzerland, Austria which should open first, and Spain for Slavians. But better to know about risk for health, for relatives. Even with vaccine, if ever, if virus don t mutate before, just impossible for everybody but only risky people like versus grippe. But on the other hand, no need to be paranoiac, can die while sleeping. When I grew up, I read, I heard so much about US paranoia about what was behind the wall. Now we know, not because Russian women are much prettier and elegant than Americans, even despite Putin, but Russia is so much more interesting for culture, for a french like me, even I thank US to be a free French.

Polyamorist
04-18-20, 19:40
Salaam zusammen,

As you know it's been hard to know the fatality rate of Coronavirus, and the figures have been all over the place. Part of the problem is that they've only been testing people who show up in hospital with bad symptoms, so we don't know how many people in the general public are infected.

However, a recent study has shed some light on this:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html

According to scientists testing for antibodies, in Santa Clara county, on April 1 between 48,000 and 81,000 people were infected. That sounds huge, but the good news is that only 50 people had died. So that's a fatality rate of under 0. 1%. That's the same as the death rate for common flu.

If you are under 50, your risk probably goes down to 0. 01%. If you're under 30,0. 001%.

Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.

I suspect that if young people knew how small the risks are to them, they would be much more reluctant to shutter up their restaurants, stop going to parties, etc. The lockdown would not seem justified.

But it's the elderly who make the decisions. I've said that the solution to the crisis is simply to quarantine the elderly. But politicians will not consider this option, because it means that they themselves will be isolated. Politicians have meetings all day, and their credibility rests on that. Do you think Donald Trump would agree to go into isolation and participate only by videoconferencing for the next year, while younger wolves asserted themselves physically in the White House? It's the same with all politicians. They are obsessed with power: that's how they got to where they are. So their attitude is: "If we go into isolation, everybody goes into isolation!" They won't loosen their grip for an instant.



What you say might work, and I think there is a chance I already had this and my symptoms were very mild. However I will tell you that given the unpredictable nature of the symptoms, even I who is relatively young and quite physically fit would not risk deliberately getting this. I know people who have tested positive for it and recovered with relatively mild symptoms.Salaam Mr Indigo, I would ask you (and others) if you accept the statistics above, and if so do you still plan to curtail your mongering life? Me, I see no reason to. I will try to see how I can go on as normal. I continue to believe that sex is the healthiest physical activity there is. The long drought of sex is drying me out on the inside. I have to replenish my mojo.

I repeat that young women have very strong immune systems. Even if a WG got the virus, the chances are her system battled with it for one day, defeated it, produced antibodies, and she never even noticed this was going on because there were no symptoms.

Kuni042
04-18-20, 21:44
Yes, 3. 4% is a shitty number. That even the WHO quoted. It was most stupid, to take just confirmed cases divid it by the death toll.

But no, the death rate is certainly nothing like a normal flu. There is one famous Heinsberg study in Germany, which was also quite thorough and here the numbers are more like 0. 4% - but you know that is still 10 x higher than severe flu. And that explains why they have a hard time carrying away dead bodies from certain hospitals, where it hit particular hard.


Salaam zusammen,

As you know it's been hard to know the fatality rate of Coronavirus, and the figures have been all over the place. Part of the problem is that they've only been testing people who show up in hospital with bad symptoms, so we don't know how many people in the general public are infected.

However, a recent study has shed some light on this:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html

According to scientists testing for antibodies, in Santa Clara county, on April 1 between 48,000 and 81,000 people were infected. That sounds huge, but the good news is that only 50 people had died. So that's a fatality rate of under 0. 1%. That's the same as the death rate for common flu.

If you are under 50, your risk probably goes down to 0. 01%. If you're under 30,0. 001%.

Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.

Kuni042
04-18-20, 21:49
This Spahn-dude (health minister) is so full of shit. How dares he calls the epidemy under control or controllable? After a few days of stagnation? BTW: the latest daily infection numbers are already accelerating by 50%.


The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".

Kuni042
04-18-20, 22:03
A) a constant daught / wind can reduce infection a lot:

In a recent german TV show (Maybrit Ilgner), https://youtu.be/5ulKfdHm5wU?t=1094 (exact position), Prof Drosten (Germany's most famous virologist) said something *super-important*:

Essentially if there is a constant draught, then the coronavirus would have a much less chance to settle.

B) an app, that could show someones personal risk score, based on the vicinity of folks one was with in the past 5 days, and whether those were infected or not.

Easy to create this draught, with ventilators in the rooms. Likely dehumidifiers might help too. If the air is dry, the aerosols will be killed.

And also easy to make the risk-score app mandatory for certain establishments. At the door the FKK-clubs, could simply say, that either mongers / girls need to show that they are immun or have a low risk score. Done.

Paulie97
04-18-20, 22:06
Salaam zusammen,

As you know it's been hard to know the fatality rate of Coronavirus, and the figures have been all over the place. Part of the problem is that they've only been testing people who show up in hospital with bad symptoms, so we don't know how many people in the general public are infected.

However, a recent study has shed some light on this:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html

According to scientists testing for antibodies, in Santa Clara county, on April 1 between 48,000 and 81,000 people were infected. That sounds huge, but the good news is that only 50 people had died. So that's a fatality rate of under 0. 1%. That's the same as the death rate for common flu.

If you are under 50, your risk probably goes down to 0. 01%. If you're under 30,0. 001%.

Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.

I suspect that if young people knew how small the risks are to them, they would be much more reluctant to shutter up their restaurants, stop going to parties, etc. The lockdown would not seem justified.I encourage the audience to read the above linked CNN article in full. You'll find that the doctor who oversaw this study is far more guarded in his language than Polyamorist, who with great eagerness thinks he has found validation for his government conspiracy theories. This study is preliminary and is not yet peer reviewed. The doctor also ends with a word of caution saying that "the flu and coronavirus are still quite different. For one, we don't yet have a vaccine for Covid-19.

Doctors suspect, though, and are still trying to prove beyond a doubt, that antibodies to Covid-19 mean one is immune down the line. " The latter remains open, and it's a significant question indeed.

Also, even if the death rate is scaled downward substantially as the result of wider, like testing, there's still a number of other problems associated with placing restrictions only on the elderly while allowing everyone else to get back to business as usual. Those are found in the below article. This is an idea that British considered but back off of for good reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/

Mr Ho
04-18-20, 23:07
China claim US brought it, US claim other, don't believe all what is told or written, same than here. I just think now the world know China lied to protect their already falling economy and keeping on producing not reliable tests, with people tested negative and dying from covid. I think this is now time to protect versus lies, not to be so dependant about safety, health. We don t all have same standards and level for quality, reliability. Now, this is new world with virus working around, not so sure even having recovered will make full safe, even french doctors think to use plasma to cure. I think FKK land will now be risky playfield if you are not a survivor healthy warrior with no relatives, because when will reopen, even with EU borders closed for months, but such playfield to spread so fast and around when returning at home, but as I went to a escort under confined, but since more than 2 weeks now, I look if she is still available and I m happy for her she is, when she is only 19, too young to die from virus in Paris, as soon it will reopen, I will go to Germany, Switzerland, Austria which should open first, and Spain for Slavians. But better to know about risk for health, for relatives. Even with vaccine, if ever, if virus don t mutate before, just impossible for everybody but only risky people like versus grippe. But on the other hand, no need to be paranoiac, can die while sleeping. When I grew up, I read, I heard so much about US paranoia about what was behind the wall. Now we know, not because Russian women are much prettier and elegant than Americans, even despite Putin, but Russia is so much more interesting for culture, for a french like me, even I thank US to be a free French.So called red team, north Korea, China and Russia, their governments are known to be not reliable for information, they openly lie even on the field of foreign affairs. This is nothing new, any educated people know about that. But many nations are like this also.

At least with in G7 nations we do not lie to each others and can have good dialogue to lead the world. G7 is not just GDP as they claim, then China would be in G7 long time ago.

Cities may reopen, but we are still depending on hope of weather of summer will fix it for now, so let see if that hope is right as for most virus weather to calm it down. Some are wondering about corona spread in warmer climate nations already, but let see.

Either way, we won't know the bottom of it unless USA decide to declare war, but I do not think so. Maybe in middle east again or possibly Iran, but with China, it will be third world war.

Pistons
04-19-20, 02:41
Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.I believe there are now so many mutations of the virus that maybe there are both one version with 3-4% death rate, and another one with just 0. 1%. We simply do not know. An Icelandic scientist found 40 different mutations of the virus on Iceland alone!

In Italy it surely was well above 0. 1% in some areas for example. As the total number of deaths registered in one region quadrupled from one year ago in March. That means the corona virus mutation in that area killed 3 times as many people as all other causes of deaths combined. These are morgue statistics, and has nothing to do with testing. And in the later part of the timeframe there were even restrictions on movement, thus reducing things like the seasonal flu, driving accidents etc etc.

Mr Ho
04-19-20, 04:40
A) a constant daught / wind can reduce infection a lot:

In a recent german TV show (Maybrit Ilgner), https://youtu.be/5ulKfdHm5wU?t=1094 (exact position), Prof Drosten (Germany's most famous virologist) said something *super-important*:

Essentially if there is a constant draught, then the coronavirus would have a much less chance to settle.

B) an app, that could show someones personal risk score, based on the vicinity of folks one was with in the past 5 days, and whether those were infected or not.

Easy to create this draught, with ventilators in the rooms. Likely dehumidifiers might help too. If the air is dry, the aerosols will be killed.

And also easy to make the risk-score app mandatory for certain establishments. At the door the FKK-clubs, could simply say, that either mongers / girls need to show that they are immun or have a low risk score. Done.Well either way, there is only one option for FKK to be open again, which is when government gives green light to do so.

Mr Ho
04-19-20, 04:48
But most powerful is not able to manage virus, with their town number 1 giving scary images to the world, with fridge trucks in streets, with Hart island for poor. I really don t wish them, because I would probably not be French without them, Europe might be very different without them, but I m afraid they could be over 50000 deaths, with so many poor who can t afford to go to hospital, keeping on working to have to eat, when unemployment is exploding there. When the most powerful is the worst since weeks. Of course, we won't compare to China, because I think everybody and our politics understood what kind of danger they can be. Have now to think about less dependence and more protection, we are not in same world. Virus is like miror for our society, much more than our medical level, and they are discovering in France, when 80% deaths are over 70 yo, and 67% under 70 had already health problems, but 50% of the worst cases under 70 are suffering obesity, even in France, more and more obese, eating on US way since they are child: MacDo for gift in foods, Cola, when we have best gastronomy in France, but US culture spreading in France, making more and more obese who are vulnerable to virus. This virus would not only kill fragile lungs, but could also infect blood for some cases when doctors didn't understand what happened for some quite young, seeming healthy, who died. I wish, if we lost, but at least could learn from what happen. As we say in sport, we learn more from a defeat than when we win.Power and managing virus has nothing to do with each other siri. USA messed up on this and many European nations messed up big time too, and soon Japan is on the same path, Japan have now 20 % beds kept free in hospital, so Japan too can have health care destruction soon if that 20% of beds are filled with heavy symptom patients and then we be on same path as Europe and USA, and all of these country has same standard of civilization beside some nations has better medical technologies, but we all are failing or on the path to failing.

However, this virus won't terminate humanity, we be back on the norm sometimes in future, it is matter of how much damage and death till then. Again, it is better to focus on controlling death rates and protecting health care system is the key.

Beside Avigan made by Fuji film Japan, which is working on mild symptom well. There is another medicine made by USA based medical company that is showing good result and not they are testing on 4000 patients globally, so it is quite hopeful.

Sirioja
04-19-20, 08:00
A) a constant daught / wind can reduce infection a lot:

In a recent german TV show (Maybrit Ilgner), https://youtu.be/5ulKfdHm5wU?t=1094 (exact position), Prof Drosten (Germany's most famous virologist) said something *super-important*:

Essentially if there is a constant draught, then the coronavirus would have a much less chance to settle.

B) an app, that could show someones personal risk score, based on the vicinity of folks one was with in the past 5 days, and whether those were infected or not.

Easy to create this draught, with ventilators in the rooms. Likely dehumidifiers might help too. If the air is dry, the aerosols will be killed.

And also easy to make the risk-score app mandatory for certain establishments. At the door the FKK-clubs, could simply say, that either mongers / girls need to show that they are immun or have a low risk score. Done.With Chinese not reliable tests? Even if mistral or tramuntana wind, but if You kiss with saliva a infected girl with no symptom, no risk for you? I'm pretty sure virus will return in FKK land when reopening, virus is now around us. Risky business. When US are the worst under virus, when they never respected confined, but now they want confined to be stopped, and even fat and old ask for, same like for free weapons any psychopath can buy, it just means they accept to die, but maybe they don't understand everything and they will cry after, when no more Navajo to be scared about. In France, old people also asked not to be confined anymore after 11 May, so, many will die, many will be given by children. I don t know for how long they plan to close EU borders, but some will go outside for job, will they be under quarantine when returning? Nearly impossible no more virus and nothing in FKK land, new risk, more risky than HIV, but less dangerous for my opinion, even seem to attack not only lungs but can also blood.

Mr Ho
04-19-20, 08:16
China claim US brought it, US claim other, don't believe all what is told or written, same than here. I just think now the world know China lied to protect their already falling economy and keeping on producing not reliable tests, with people tested negative and dying from covid. I think this is now time to protect versus lies, not to be so dependant about safety, health. We don t all have same standards and level for quality, reliability. Now, this is new world with virus working around, not so sure even having recovered will make full safe, even french doctors think to use plasma to cure. I think FKK land will now be risky playfield if you are not a survivor healthy warrior with no relatives, because when will reopen, even with EU borders closed for months, but such playfield to spread so fast and around when returning at home, but as I went to a escort under confined, but since more than 2 weeks now, I look if she is still available and I m happy for her she is, when she is only 19, too young to die from virus in Paris, as soon it will reopen, I will go to Germany, Switzerland, Austria which should open first, and Spain for Slavians. But better to know about risk for health, for relatives. Even with vaccine, if ever, if virus don t mutate before, just impossible for everybody but only risky people like versus grippe. But on the other hand, no need to be paranoiac, can die while sleeping. When I grew up, I read, I heard so much about US paranoia about what was behind the wall. Now we know, not because Russian women are much prettier and elegant than Americans, even despite Putin, but Russia is so much more interesting for culture, for a french like me, even I thank US to be a free French.It is this one I have been saying from the beginning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology

Pentire
04-19-20, 11:01
The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".If only that was the size of it however, I firmly believe the very suggestion even thoughts of FKK's reopening this year is at best optimistic.

With social distancing measures firmly in place and likely to remain so throughout the summer months quite probably beyond, I'm at loss to understand how the business of close contact and intimate pleasure with a sex worker on an industrial scale is going to be sanctioned by the German authorities.

I'd even go so far as to suggest this won't be happening until a proven vaccination is in circulation and everybody entering FKK's (clients and workers) are able to produce valid certification to prove they are inoculated and virus free.

Mr Ho
04-19-20, 12:05
If only that was the size of it however, I firmly believe the very suggestion even thoughts of FKK's reopening this year is at best optimistic.

With social distancing measures firmly in place and likely to remain so throughout the summer months quite probably beyond, I'm at loss to understand how the business of close contact and intimate pleasure with a sex worker on an industrial scale is going to be sanctioned by the German authorities.

I'd even go so far as to suggest this won't be happening until a proven vaccination is in circulation and everybody entering FKK's (clients and workers) are able to produce valid certification to prove they are inoculated and virus free.It will open when government gives green light LOL!

Mr Ho
04-19-20, 12:06
It is this one I have been saying from the beginning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_VirologyFrench built this and they backed off for Chinese to manage it, and look what happened.

Polyamorist
04-19-20, 15:28
I believe there are now so many mutations of the virus that maybe there are both one version with 3-4% death rate, and another one with just 0. 1%. We simply do not know. An Icelandic scientist found 40 different mutations of the virus on Iceland alone!Salaam Pistons,

According to the authors of that study in Iceland, the virus mutations would be less harmful. Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. So again, I am saying: 0. 1%.

In places where the death rate was higher, like Italy and New York, it could be simply because of the disorganization of the national health systems. At first they were caught by surprise and they couldn't distribute the ventilators to the right places fast enough.

Sirioja
04-19-20, 16:10
Salaam Pistons,

According to the authors of that study in Iceland, the virus mutations would be less harmful. Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. So again, I am saying: 0. 1%.

In places where the death rate was higher, like Italy and New York, it could be simply because of the disorganization of the national health systems. At first they were caught by surprise and they couldn't distribute the ventilators to the right places fast enough.Italy was first Western country to be heavily impacted and in poor South, many Italians live with parents, when many left impacted North to return to South with family, but US couldn't not ignore because they were impacted much later, but they thought first they would be stronger, they still don t respect confined, poverty can t afford to pay for healthcare when many don t have insurance, but who really care there about mostly black people dying in NYC, Louisiana, Michigan, Chicago. I m sure Trump doesn't have problem to sleep. Virus is real mirror for US society and they are the worst under virus. Just figures.

Den Haag
04-19-20, 17:37
You do realize that you have added to the conversation on coronavirus.

But you can tell about your FKK experiences, to entertain us while this black time. I could go to Russian escorts, but no libido reading deaths, unemployment.Thank you for your messages. I guess this is the case of great mind thinking alike. I apologize if your enjoyment of this forum has been upset. Please see my Evita report below. I do not wish to take over forum as do another. Please post away about Covid19 for everyone's enjoyment. Please say Hi to Basketcase if you see. Many thank and thank you again for your messages.

Pistons
04-19-20, 17:56
Salaam Pistons,

According to the authors of that study in Iceland, the virus mutations would be less harmful. Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. So again, I am saying: 0. 1%.You almost make it sound like the virus has a mind of its own now, haha.

I believe this is all by chance. Like hitting up a casino in Las Vegas or Macau.

ShooBree
04-19-20, 18:10
I encourage the audience to read the above linked CNN article in full. You'll find that the doctor who oversaw this study is far more guarded in his language than Polyamorist, who with great eagerness thinks he has found validation for his government conspiracy theories. This study is preliminary and is not yet peer reviewed. The doctor also ends with a word of caution saying that "the flu and coronavirus are still quite different. For one, we don't yet have a vaccine for Covid-19.

Doctors suspect, though, and are still trying to prove beyond a doubt, that antibodies to Covid-19 mean one is immune down the line. " The latter remains open, and it's a significant question indeed.

Also, even if the death rate is scaled downward substantially as the result of wider, like testing, there's still a number of other problems associated with placing restrictions only on the elderly while allowing everyone else to get back to business as usual. Those are found in the below article. This is an idea that British considered but back off of for good reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/This is what I find problematic, many act as if the main goal should be to stop the number of deaths no matter what it takes. I strongly disagree with that approach. Saving the lives of people with poor health isn't worth much to me if we in process destroy the lives of the 99.0-99.9 % that won't die. We have to be able to see the bigger picture. The virus isn't especially dangerous for people under 65 without underlying health problems. In the US they have 22 million unemployed after four weeks, probably 18 million more in June. How many business owners will be forced into bankruptcy? How many will be heavily indebted and forced to a life in homelessness? How many children will have their childhood destroyed and highly disadvantaged to live a good life? Many countries will face huge problems considering their debt to GDP ratio.

30 years of economic progress in Africa might be wiped out. People have to wake up and stop being afraid of nature. Old people should stay at home, the rest should go on with their life.

DasBooty
04-19-20, 18:36
Also, even if the death rate is scaled downward substantially as the result of wider, like testing, there's still a number of other problems associated with placing restrictions only on the elderly while allowing everyone else to get back to business as usual. Those are found in the below article. This is an idea that British considered but back off of for good reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/No visitors at the elderly homes. Masks, gloves etc for the employees. In a household where one person is old or belongs to a risk group everyone in that household stays at home without loss of pay (government steps in). It would cost a government a lot less than shutting down an entire country.

Might not work in third world countries but for the rest it should.

Sirioja
04-19-20, 21:55
Thank you for your messages. I guess this is the case of great mind thinking alike. I apologize if your enjoyment of this forum has been upset. Please see my Evita report below. I do not wish to take over forum as do another. Please post away about Covid19 for everyone's enjoyment. Please say Hi to Basketcase if you see. Many thank and thank you again for your messages.I'm sorry, I know I m different but I m much more interested by virus crisis with so many deaths, economy crisis with 22 millions more unemployed in US, 8 millions more in France, than brothels and Evita I see at Sharks since January 2015 , and even my best girls, but only my subjective ranking of values, of course. At the moment, some beauties escorting in Paris, but I already missed 4 who left, went only with 1 , because not in the mood about what happen to our world, I don't mean FKK land I don't care much about at the moment. Still a Polish, a Estonian and a Belarus real beauties if I have better mood, when only pleasures are to work and prepare bicycle to climb my beloved mountains and wish to go to my Dolomiti friends. I m happy because they are safe. I wish Romanian girls had good Easter in family today.

Sirioja
04-19-20, 22:13
Italy was first Western country to be heavily impacted and in poor South, many Italians live with parents, when many left impacted North to return to South with family, but US couldn't not ignore because they were impacted much later, but they thought first they would be stronger, they still don t respect confined, poverty can t afford to pay for healthcare when many don t have insurance, but who really care there about mostly black people dying in NYC, Louisiana, Michigan, Chicago. I m sure Trump doesn't have problem to sleep. Virus is real mirror for US society and they are the worst under virus. Just figures.Nobody, not even Germany, can compete with North Korea, Belarus and I think Turkmenistan, claiming 0 deaths and even 0 cases, same in Taiwan. Belarus president found vaccine before others, telling to drink vodka.

Today, french government explained us about where we are about virus, really interesting and clear explanation. Virus should be under control when R0 really below 1 and stay like this, they say we are now at 0,6 in France, wish it will stay like this after 11 May, end of confined and also for old people. But not sure having recovered is no more risk. Only children have not much risk.

Mursenary
04-19-20, 22:48
What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?

It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.

Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK. What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.

Mursenary
04-19-20, 22:53
I believe there are now so many mutations of the virus that maybe there are both one version with 3-4% death rate, and another one with just 0. 1%. We simply do not know. An Icelandic scientist found 40 different mutations of the virus on Iceland alone!

In Italy it surely was well above 0. 1% in some areas for example. As the total number of deaths registered in one region quadrupled from one year ago in March. That means the corona virus mutation in that area killed 3 times as many people as all other causes of deaths combined. These are morgue statistics, and has nothing to do with testing. And in the later part of the timeframe there were even restrictions on movement, thus reducing things like the seasonal flu, driving accidents etc etc.Mutations have not shown to affect pathogenicity and disease outcome. They only change antigen expression that may affect detection. Death rates have been directly correlated to socioeconomic environment of the population in the affected region.

Kuni042
04-19-20, 23:13
It is exactly as Mr Ho said. The FKK clubs stay closed, until the government says so. But it is the FKK club owners to lay out a plan that can work. This may include lots of precautionary steps: masks, ventilators, duck tape, mandatory apps and what not.

So they will. With 100% certainty. Require us to wear masks. As much as they required us to wear condoms. And we all know that wearing condoms, worked very well. Mostly for the ladies. Grin. And of course, you know that the government is reading this too. It can made to work. What is so difficult to understand?

Our job is to help the FKK club owners think this through. Because our collective brainpower is very high. Likely much much higher than the 10-person crew of any of the FKK clubs.


I'm at loss to understand how the business of close contact and intimate pleasure with a sex worker on an industrial scale is going to be sanctioned by the German authorities.

Lanthano
04-19-20, 23:21
Well, I'm on the ground and it's pretty much a fortiori argument currently.

If concerts, and all other large public events are banned, and they're only opening stores below a certain size. All the more so clubs with a large party atmosphere filled with older men wearing nothing but a towel surrounded by 50-100 naked women and getting as close to them as is humanly possible, with guests travelling from the entire world to attend, are going to be banned probably the longest.

Also given the fact the girls are all back home in Romania, and may be about to miss one of the busiest seasons, I would expect the FKKs to be out for most of the summer. Facemasks or no.

I am afraid this looks shot for the next few months. Honestly, if not, then I'll be the first to run to one of them given the monotony of being at home.

In terms of P6, the only stuff available are a few escorts and maybe a dozen girls in the RLD strutting their stuff on the streets (70 euros at least).

Hopefully however this post will be a consolation to those wishing they were here when currently there's nothing really here.

Atlante18
04-19-20, 23:30
So make the picture.

For 1 or 2 years no more Italian customers in FKK.In such a case, the FKK will be freed from the most noisy clients.

Sirioja
04-20-20, 01:09
It is exactly as Mr Ho said. The FKK clubs stay closed, until the government says so. But it is the FKK club owners to lay out a plan that can work. This may include lots of precautionary steps: masks, ventilators, duck tape, mandatory apps and what not.

So they will. With 100% certainty. Require us to wear masks. As much as they required us to wear condoms. And we all know that wearing condoms, worked very well. Mostly for the ladies. Grin. And of course, you know that the government is reading this too. It can made to work. What is so difficult to understand?

Our job is to help the FKK club owners think this through. Because our collective brainpower is very high. Likely much much higher than the 10-person crew of any of the FKK clubs.I'm sorry but I m not clever enough to find enjoyable with mask and gloves. No real kiss, then can t have pleasure.

Germany will open shops smaller than 800 meters square, Austria will for shops smaller than 400, but with masks.

Chongmal
04-20-20, 05:23
This may include lots of precautionary steps: masks, ventilators, duck tape, mandatory apps and what not.I hope this is your attempt at humor. I see no different between P6 business transactions and dating, except on has a much higher chance of ending with sex. In your scenario a couple out on a date would be forbidden from kissing the same as a bear and a WG. What I expect, and am surprised I haven't seen it yet, is the religious end of the world groups coming forward, blaming their God for smiting those who willingly expose themselves to filth and petulance.

One thing that has been interesting to watch is the national chest pounding, claims of superiority. Interestingly enough, we are all stuck on the semi solid surface of a molten lava ball. With the exception of the possible 6 persons on the space station we are all pretty much stuck in this mess together. Regardless of how you believe this virus started, it started in one country and thanks to high speed flights around the world, and Audi's sweeping the Autobahn, this virus has spread to the far reaches of the world. A country can have it completely eradicated and all it takes is one traveler to contact the virus and pass through said country and the virus can be back in the wild again. My Hope's are that the nations of earth figure out how to limit the number of fatalities in time, then the virus can run its course building antibodies in the majority of human kind.

Mr Ho
04-20-20, 05:37
I'm sorry, I know I m different but I m much more interested by virus crisis with so many deaths, economy crisis with 22 millions more unemployed in US, 8 millions more in France, than brothels and Evita I see at Sharks since January 2015 , and even my best girls, but only my subjective ranking of values, of course. At the moment, some beauties escorting in Paris, but I already missed 4 who left, went only with 1 , because not in the mood about what happen to our world, I don't mean FKK land I don't care much about at the moment. Still a Polish, a Estonian and a Belarus real beauties if I have better mood, when only pleasures are to work and prepare bicycle to climb my beloved mountains and wish to go to my Dolomiti friends. I m happy because they are safe. I wish Romanian girls had good Easter in family today.Siri, do that in corona virus thread LOL. The guy is thanking for corona topic has been moved to corona thread and then you begin corona topic here again LOL!

DasBooty
04-20-20, 07:30
It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.

Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK. What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.Europe has a higher population density than the US.

Example of what high population density leads to: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8206143/New-York-coronavirus-cases-Italy-Spain.html.

Mr Ho
04-20-20, 07:46
CNN and BBC among others are hypocritical. Each day, they randomly attack other nations about corona virus failure, today they are saying Singapore had it control, but now cases spiked etc. I think they should look at what is happening to their own nations with insane death rates and medical system completely failed and they only had corona since like March in western nations.

Tropea317
04-20-20, 08:44
In such a case, the FKK will be freed from the most noisy clients.Not so fast.

The Italian residents in Italy.

For the big bunch that already work in Germany, for restaurants tourism etc, BTW are almost totally a business of mafia camorra etc, but don t tell to Deutsche regierung, they like mafia money, make money in Italy than export in Germany banks, they will stay.

If you want to make a pogrom, I'm with you.

Mr Ho
04-20-20, 09:33
I'm sorry, I know I m different but I m much more interested by virus crisis with so many deaths, economy crisis with 22 millions more unemployed in US, 8 millions more in France, than brothels and Evita I see at Sharks since January 2015 , and even my best girls, but only my subjective ranking of values, of course. At the moment, some beauties escorting in Paris, but I already missed 4 who left, went only with 1 , because not in the mood about what happen to our world, I don't mean FKK land I don't care much about at the moment. Still a Polish, a Estonian and a Belarus real beauties if I have better mood, when only pleasures are to work and prepare bicycle to climb my beloved mountains and wish to go to my Dolomiti friends. I m happy because they are safe. I wish Romanian girls had good Easter in family today.By the way, it is France who made the virus laboratory in Wuhan China.

ShooBree
04-20-20, 10:03
What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?

It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.

Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK. What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.You must be joking? USA is a mess, just look at the numbers. There's a bloodbath in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Louisiana, Massachusetts and Michigan. New York is worse off than any other European country excluding San Marino. And the numbers are only going up. On top of that over 22'000'000 people lost their jobs in four weeks and that despite the high number of deaths. Canada is looking so much better, USA could really learn a lot from them. Its freighting to see how weak USA really is. They actually failed worse than many feared.

Tropea317
04-20-20, 11:57
UK USA and Israel together want to make trillion lawsuit against China?

Maybe something more spicy.

Mursenary
04-20-20, 13:07
Europe has a higher population density than the US.

Example of what high population density leads to: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8206143/New-York-coronavirus-cases-Italy-Spain.html.That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.

McAdonis
04-20-20, 13:21
What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?

It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.

Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK. What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.Media does not seem pin blame on US healthcare system or any other national healthcare system. Media seems to blame certain governments for their slow responses. Underfunding programs. Not being prepared, and not resourcing ventilators and medical equipment. In other words, poor long-term and short-term planning by politicians. Media has consistently trumpeted the idea that there is no healthcare system on the planet that can handle the coronavirus if social distancing were not put into place to mitigate the spread.

Rather than country-to-country comparison, it might be more appropriate to shift the conversation to a city-to-city comparison. Madrid accounts for 33 percent of Spain's deaths, NYC about 25 percent of USA's deaths. The hardest hit cities in each country all have a few things in common: (1) high population density, (2) globally connected financial center for their respective country. Cheyenne, Wyoming has better coronavirus statistics than NYC, but I doubt you will find anyone who would say that they have better doctors or healthcare than NYC. We still haven't seen coronavirus hit Africa. They might have better than expected numbers due to being a younger population. Again, I doubt any media will draw conclusions that they have better healthcare system than the western nations.

Questions are going to be asked and the status quo will be challenged or scrutinized in every country. After such a crisis, I think it is only natural to reconsider all policies or re-initiate old discussions. For USA that might be universal healthcare and social inequality. For China that might be government transparency and surveillance. Applicable to every country might be pandemic response, city planning, telecommuting, and global alliances. For instance, Italy has not been happy with its EU partners. For those reasons, there could be both economic and political stability in the post-Covid 19 world.

Mr Ho
04-20-20, 13:25
It is funny how CNN insult Singapore today and BBC write the opposite about nations health and its health care system LOL. I am surprise France or Germany is not even on top 10.

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20200419-coronavirus-five-countries-with-the-best-healthcare-systems

Sirioja
04-20-20, 15:58
So make the picture.

Austria and Germany quickly to a new normality.

And don t forget that Germany have a big Pharma industry for all the equipment e the vaccine.

For the hospital never had ICU problem.

So poor Italy, please don't censored this because I m Italian, with its lousy health system and politicians, e 1/3 of the country mafialand. Will be the first to entry in crisis and the last to exit.

For 1 or 2 years no more Italian customers in FKK.There are rich Italians spending big money in FKK land, even poor South. I m really sorry for Italy I really love, for bad experience about chinese virus, but I m happy my Dolomiti friends are safe and look forward going in my little paradise: Stelvio, Gavia, Mortirolo, Zoncolan in Frioul and now extreme 28% Gentile, Carabinieri adviced me. I really wish for great sporty, climbing every day for more than 15 days, ironman Summer, but only on bicycle. If no more Italians, Wellcum and Andiamo will die, I think Chiaso also, other Swiss clubs will cry, and even some GT Bruggen girls. I remember I met 2 really pretty Italian girls at Wellcum, Anna on August 2016 and lightning Tea on August 2018 , but both not good for me because not really kissing and when they saw my frustration about their way for sex, they told: But Italians here don t kiss. I was luckier with Mila at Marina Slovenia, also full of Italians. I have different behavior, but FKK need Italian business.

Pistons
04-20-20, 17:12
Mutations have not shown to affect pathogenicity and disease outcome. They only change antigen expression that may affect detection. Death rates have been directly correlated to socioeconomic environment of the population in the affected region.Then it should be terrible in some poor parts of the world right now, because Bergamo in Italy which was fairly badly hit, is one of the wealthiest parts of Europe. Definitely one of the wealthiest in Italy for sure!

Sirioja
04-20-20, 19:31
By the way, it is France who made the virus laboratory in Wuhan China.What you mean? France is responsible of organization and safety in China? But I'm happy France get ordered for building in China, and do CIA have real proof which can be controlled by everybody, when one of the less reliable organization, can compete with China for truth.

McAdonis
04-20-20, 20:03
That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.Good point. This could "almost" isolate out all other factors, and make medical response the sole basis of comparison. But I would argue that that you must then look at the closed cases. USA has 113 K closed cases, 41 K deaths, which comes out to 37% death rate. France is 35%, Italy is 33%, Spain 21%, and Germany 5%.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us

But I still don't think these numbers prove that health system in one country is any better than the other. Deaths seem to pile up when hospitals get overloaded and when the population has high comorbidities. At least the first factor is dictated more by policy makers. Procuring test kits, ventilators, and masks and deciding how early and how long to implement social distancing are outside of the healthcare system's control. USA still has 650 K open cases. If the decision to reopen is not the correct one or the reopening is not properly planned, managed, and executed, American hospitals will never get a chance to "catch up" and improve on their death rate.

DasBooty
04-20-20, 20:12
That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.It has more to do with age. Europe has an older population than the US: https://www.prb.org/countries-with-the-oldest-populations/.

The Cane
04-20-20, 20:20
By the way, it is France who made the virus laboratory in Wuhan China.France helped Saddam Hussein kick start a nuclear plant too. We know how that turned out. Bad in so, so many ways!

Sirioja
04-20-20, 20:48
Not so fast.

The Italian residents in Italy.

For the big bunch that already work in Germany, for restaurants tourism etc, BTW are almost totally a business of mafia camorra etc, but don t tell to Deutsche regierung, they like mafia money, make money in Italy than export in Germany banks, they will stay.

If you want to make a pogrom, I'm with you.I love Italy, my second country, when too complicated for Russia I love also. Germany really can't compete for way of life and foods, only worth for me for brothels, escorts are usually not pretty enough in Germany. When they have enough money to afford, Germans leave Germany for Spain, France, Italy, for holidays, to be more free than in Germany.

Sirioja
04-20-20, 21:18
CNN and BBC among others are hypocritical. Each day, they randomly attack other nations about corona virus failure, today they are saying Singapore had it control, but now cases spiked etc. I think they should look at what is happening to their own nations with insane death rates and medical system completely failed and they only had corona since like March in western nations.Like in brothels, only facts are real for me, figures for virus, today more than 40 000 deaths in US with mostly poor Afro Americans, not far from 30 millions more unemployed and more than 10 millions illegals, for country number 1 . We are not better in France with now more than 20000 deaths when I see how work in exceptional way our medical staff, and I m sure US medical staff also do great job, but too many without insurance who can't afford to pay for healthcare. But when I see old and fat in US asking to finish confined, as they ask for free weapons for mad to kill in schools, universities, churches, I don't worry anymore for them, when Trump is playing a politic game, I will worry much more for poor Africa, and this is much more important for me than brothels land and prostitutes looking for fast money, when so many Africans may die because of poverty. Maybe my communist part, even very individualist, maybe why I m so interested by Russian culture and history, except by Putin.

Mr Ho
04-21-20, 01:26
Like in brothels, only facts are real for me, figures for virus, today more than 40 000 deaths in US with mostly poor Afro Americans, not far from 30 millions more unemployed and more than 10 millions illegals, for country number 1 . We are not better in France with now more than 20000 deaths when I see how work in exceptional way our medical staff, and I m sure US medical staff also do great job, but too many without insurance who can't afford to pay for healthcare. But when I see old and fat in US asking to finish confined, as they ask for free weapons for mad to kill in schools, universities, churches, I don't worry anymore for them, when Trump is playing a politic game, I will worry much more for poor Africa, and this is much more important for me than brothels land and prostitutes looking for fast money, when so many Africans may die because of poverty. Maybe my communist part, even very individualist, maybe why I m so interested by Russian culture and history, except by Putin.Corona was found in river in Paris, this is scary, apparently it is from toilet. I mean they should stop dumping toilet water into river, Paris is capital of France, which is g7 nation. Infrastructure has to be revised and be more hygiene. This river thing is scary, but it is good they spotted it.

Mr Ho
04-21-20, 01:49
France helped Saddam Hussein kick start a nuclear plant too. We know how that turned out. Bad in so, so many ways!France also take political donation from Qaddafi and when it surface, France killed him LOL, it was French plane from NATO who bombarded the biggest political investor to France. Sarkozy got away with it LOL! Colonization of middle east still continued.

But French technology is not as good as German and Japanese and they should not make those plant or lab in those problem nations, they are not ready for technologies.

Mr Ho
04-21-20, 01:52
I love Italy, my second country, when too complicated for Russia I love also. Germany really can't compete for way of life and foods, only worth for me for brothels, escorts are usually not pretty enough in Germany. When they have enough money to afford, Germans leave Germany for Spain, France, Italy, for holidays, to be more free than in Germany.Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight. But France and Italy and also Spain has great food culture in Europe, hat off to them.

But man, way of life? Medically it is messed up there and Germany is better for that, but as for Dolce vita, Italy is more relaxed and amazing nation and also France, they are socialist close to communist, so it is good, you are protected by government and when things don't go your way, french take it to street with demonstration which in most other nation may call it more like riot LOL! With fire, destroying stores etc LOL.

France and Italy are both in g7, but lower ranked.

ShooBree
04-21-20, 02:17
That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.You are talking about the confirmed number of infected, not the actual number that's been infected. 0.56% is the death rate of those infected on Iceland. The medical response must have been amazing! Or it might have something to do with the number of tests being done. Iceland have tested over 12.5% of their population, only the Faeroe Islands comes close to that number.

Oh, you might want to know the death rate on the Faroe Islands: 0.00 %.

Mr Ho
04-21-20, 02:49
Like in brothels, only facts are real for me, figures for virus, today more than 40 000 deaths in US with mostly poor Afro Americans, not far from 30 millions more unemployed and more than 10 millions illegals, for country number 1 . We are not better in France with now more than 20000 deaths when I see how work in exceptional way our medical staff, and I m sure US medical staff also do great job, but too many without insurance who can't afford to pay for healthcare. But when I see old and fat in US asking to finish confined, as they ask for free weapons for mad to kill in schools, universities, churches, I don't worry anymore for them, when Trump is playing a politic game, I will worry much more for poor Africa, and this is much more important for me than brothels land and prostitutes looking for fast money, when so many Africans may die because of poverty. Maybe my communist part, even very individualist, maybe why I m so interested by Russian culture and history, except by Putin.Go to Moscow, it is only like 4 hours form Paris right?

I like Moscow, but I recommend more st petersberg.

But Moscow changed, I went there first in year 2000 and back then it was still different to Europe, but now it still is different, but it has more European side to it. Same with Almaty, I went in 1999 first time, I went back in 2017, it developed too much now to my taste, I liked it when I smelt bit of USSR feeling.

I love to go back to Romania, I have not been since 2001, it must have changed a lot, but at least I fuck their women a lot of them in Germany and zurich LOL!

Mr Ho
04-21-20, 03:59
What you mean? France is responsible of organization and safety in China? But I'm happy France get ordered for building in China, and do CIA have real proof which can be controlled by everybody, when one of the less reliable organization, can compete with China for truth.Also Kim Jong un has been operated by french doctors in north Korea, but the guy is in critical condition now, thanks to French doctors for doing good job to eliminating one of the most vicious dictator, lack of skill sometime is good thing for the world LOL!

Pessimist
04-21-20, 04:16
Universal healthcare is a non starter in US. As for social inequality, they can debate it forever but there will never be such a thing. Not in the US, not anywhere else. May be there will be degrees of inequality, but never any true equality.

SobeLizard
04-21-20, 05:35
Prosecutors say 43-year-old Baruch Feldheim hoarded the supplies in order to take advantage of the COVID-19 crisis and was selling them to doctors and nurses at prices as much as 700% above market value.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/medical-supplies-seized-alleged-price-gouger-distributed-hospitals/story?id=69938363

https://youtu.be/DlaWuGj2Grw

Nearly a million medical-grade masks and gloves that were seized this week from a Brooklyn man who was charged with lying to federal agents about price-gouging will go to medical workers in New York and New Jersey, the authorities said Thursday.

The need for masks and personal protective equipment, known as PPE, is acute in the New York metropolitan region, an epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic in the United States.

The stockpile of supplies that were seized included 192,000 N95 respirators, 130,000 surgical masks and nearly 600,000 medical grade gloves, the authorities said. They said they also had recovered surgical gowns, disinfectant towels, particulate filters, hand sanitizer and spray disinfectant.

The man who was charged with lying to federal agents, Baruch Feldheim, 43, charged a doctor $12,000 last month for a large order of masks, gowns and hazmat gear at a 700 percent markup, according to the F. Be. I. The agency called it a glaring example of hoarding of medical supplies that are designated as essential under a presidential executive order.

When the doctor went to pick up his order at an auto repair shop in Irvington, and. J. , which was being used as a warehouse, he saw so many pallets of medical gear, Clorox wipes and hand sanitizer that it would have been enough to supply an entire hospital, a criminal complaint said.

"Cracking down on the hoarding of vital supplies allows us to distribute this material to the heroic health care workers on the front lines who are most in need," Alex M. Azar II, the USA Health and Human Services secretary, said in a statement on Thursday.

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When federal agents first confronted Mr. Feldheim on Sunday, he coughed in their direction and told them that he had tested positive for the coronavirus, the authorities said. He was arrested on Monday and also charged with one count of assault on a federal officer, the criminal complaint said.

Sign up to receive our daily Coronavirus Briefing, an informed guide with the latest developments and expert advice.

Mr. Feldheim's defense lawyer, James Moriarty, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Thursday night, but Reuters reported that Mr. Moriarty had denied the charges.

In a message on Thursday to his F. B. I. Colleagues, Gregory W. Ehrie, the special agent in charge of the F. Be. I. 's Newark office, wrote that the efforts of law enforcement officers were making a difference during the health care crisis.

"It is gratifying when the challenging and risky work of our agents has such positive and tangible results," Mr. Ehrie wrote. "Profiteers need to be aware that we are looking for them and will do whatever necessary to help stem the tide of this crisis. The public needs to know that they are a force multiplier in our efforts and should bring us any information that could curtail criminal activity."

The USA Department of Health and Human Services said it would pay "fair market value" to the owner of the hoarded equipment.

The materials were inspected and redistributed to the health departments of New York State, New Jersey and New York City, the authorities said.

William K. Rashbaum and Adam Goldman contributed reporting.

Mr Ho
04-21-20, 06:22
Top 10 health care nations and their death rate relate:

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20200419-coronavirus-five-countries-with-the-best-healthcare-systems

Chongmal
04-21-20, 10:43
Just read in several news sources that Oktoberfest 2020 is the latest victim of COVID-19. If people think that Sauna Clubs will reopen this summer it may be time to re-evaluate that position.

Polyamorist
04-21-20, 11:21
You almost make it sound like the virus has a mind of its own now, haha.


Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. Tell your friend that in his death, a part of you dies and goes with him. Wherever he goes, you also go. He will not be alone. -- Krishnamurti.

Sometimes I think we must put aside partisanship and listen to the other side no matter how much we detest them. What I am hearing from our little friends is a cry for help.

Coronavirus: "Please accept our apologies if you die. When these unfortunate side-effects occur, no-one is worse impacted than we ourselves. ".

Rather than being scared of mutations, we should be accelerating them, so that the enlightened tribes of Covid-20 and Covid-21 may overcome their savage forebear.

Pain itself destroys pain. Suffering itself frees man from suffering. -- Krishnamurti.

Kuni042
04-21-20, 15:06
Oktoberfest and FKK / saunaclubs are totally different.

The one is a MASS feast with about 100,000 folks at any point in time.

The others can be much more disciplined. Especially if you lay out the rules.

I am not giving up. Hope is the thing that dies last. Right?


Just read in several news sources that Oktoberfest 2020 is the latest victim of COVID-19. If people think that Sauna Clubs will reopen this summer it may be time to re-evaluate that position.

Mursenary
04-21-20, 16:59
No one's actually closing the cases. It requires 2 confirmed negative tests in most cases and unless you're admitted into a hospital, no one's getting test once they're better.

I'the say the healthcare system's ability to not get over run is definitely a benchmark of it's quality. Do you see the irony of all the criticism of America's poor healthcare system and fat people with comorbidities yet death rates, even in densely populated New York is much lower?


Good point. This could "almost" isolate out all other factors, and make medical response the sole basis of comparison. But I would argue that that you must then look at the closed cases. USA has 113 K closed cases, 41 K deaths, which comes out to 37% death rate. France is 35%, Italy is 33%, Spain 21%, and Germany 5%.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us

But I still don't think these numbers prove that health system in one country is any better than the other. Deaths seem to pile up when hospitals get overloaded and when the population has high comorbidities. At least the first factor is dictated more by policy makers. Procuring test kits, ventilators, and masks and deciding how early and how long to implement social distancing are outside of the healthcare system's control. USA still has 650 K open cases. If the decision to reopen is not the correct one or the reopening is not properly planned, managed, and executed, American hospitals will never get a chance to "catch up" and improve on their death rate.

Mursenary
04-21-20, 17:08
You are talking about the confirmed number of infected, not the actual number that's been infected. 0.56% is the death rate of those infected on Iceland. The medical response must have been amazing! Or it might have something to do with the number of tests being done. Iceland have tested over 12.5% of their population, only the Faeroe Islands comes close to that number.

Oh, you might want to know the death rate on the Faroe Islands: 0.00 %.In developed nations, the trend is that the more you test, the lower the death rate so I guess you're saying that America's true death rate is even lower. Most people who die, die in healthcare facilities. They're being tested there. The cases that go unreported are the asymptomatically affected or the mildly affected. If numbers are skewed in a particular direction, they are actually overestimating death rates.

Sweden's initial "let them reach herd immunity" stance has been well documented.

Mursenary
04-21-20, 17:11
Then it should be terrible in some poor parts of the world right now, because Bergamo in Italy which was fairly badly hit, is one of the wealthiest parts of Europe. Definitely one of the wealthiest in Italy for sure!Average age is part of socio-economic metrics. Prevalence of 80 year olds is as much a risk factor as prevalence of poor, sick, and younger.

Mursenary
04-21-20, 17:19
It has more to do with age. Europe has an older population than the US: https://www.prb.org/countries-with-the-oldest-populations/.Definitely a factor. More? I disagree, but a factor yes. Worth noting that Germany and Italy have the same average age but complete opposite results though. So again, it's a factor but more? Doesn't seem so.

Pessimist
04-21-20, 19:59
Just read in several news sources that Oktoberfest 2020 is the latest victim of COVID-19. If people think that Sauna Clubs will reopen this summer it may be time to re-evaluate that position.I have already gone on record here that in my view, chance of a large FKK like Sharks opening for normal business before the fall is 5% and before the year end is 25%. Those are the odds I give. Others may differ.

Sirioja
04-21-20, 20:17
Corona was found in river in Paris, this is scary, apparently it is from toilet. I mean they should stop dumping toilet water into river, Paris is capital of France, which is g7 nation. Infrastructure has to be revised and be more hygiene. This river thing is scary, but it is good they spotted it.No corona problem for water in Paris and in France at the moment. I drink more Paris water than famous French wines or champagne.

Sirioja
04-21-20, 20:22
Go to Moscow, it is only like 4 hours form Paris right?

I like Moscow, but I recommend more st petersberg.

But Moscow changed, I went there first in year 2000 and back then it was still different to Europe, but now it still is different, but it has more European side to it. Same with Almaty, I went in 1999 first time, I went back in 2017, it developed too much now to my taste, I liked it when I smelt bit of USSR feeling.

I love to go back to Romania, I have not been since 2001, it must have changed a lot, but at least I fuck their women a lot of them in Germany and zurich LOL!Peter is for me the most beautiful town, real museum town for architecture, even more beautiful than Paris. Moscow can't compete, even very beautiful underground metro stations.

Sirioja
04-21-20, 20:32
Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight. But France and Italy and also Spain has great food culture in Europe, hat off to them.

But man, way of life? Medically it is messed up there and Germany is better for that, but as for Dolce vita, Italy is more relaxed and amazing nation and also France, they are socialist close to communist, so it is good, you are protected by government and when things don't go your way, french take it to street with demonstration which in most other nation may call it more like riot LOL! With fire, destroying stores etc LOL.

France and Italy are both in g7, but lower ranked.Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.

Borrop74
04-21-20, 22:34
Top 10 health care nations and their death rate relate:

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20200419-coronavirus-five-countries-with-the-best-healthcare-systemsWell Mr Ho, it depends from the list you take.

If you look at the one by the World Health Organization (and not by an unknown British think tank) such list is quite different and has France and Italy at the top.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

My points are that such lists are rather arbitrary and even the best Healthcare System is not planned to sustain extreme situations.

Mr Ho
04-22-20, 01:42
Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.I love south Italy more than north, especially calabria where tourist is still limited in some part.

In Japan too, some chef refuse Michelin as they lose their original regular clients, it is not image thing by the way, I know some normal working class french people are known to be too proud of their own nation not knowing much about foreign nations, but it is just the fact Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French gourmets, but it is each their own.

Mr Ho
04-22-20, 01:46
Peter is for me the most beautiful town, real museum town for architecture, even more beautiful than Paris. Moscow can't compete, even very beautiful underground metro stations.Paris is image thing, it has some nice architecture, but if you actually go there, it is just partly beautiful, in most part it stinks, not clean and full of tourists, not safe. And french people are not so kind hearted especially in Paris.

Metro in Moscow is nice too by the way, but it is communist thing. To monger I like it better in Moscow, but it is pricey even you have wealthy friend.

Mr Ho
04-22-20, 01:46
No corona problem for water in Paris and in France at the moment. I drink more Paris water than famous French wines or champagne.Well be careful as corona was found in water source in pars as toilet water is dumped into river due to Paris water management system:

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/No-risk-to-tap-water-as-traces-of-coronavirus-SARS-CoV-2-which-causes-Covid-19-is-found-in-Paris-non-potable-water-source

Chongmal
04-22-20, 03:14
Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight. But France and Italy and also Spain has great food culture in Europe, hat off to them.Mr Ho, don't you know that when an outsider beats you at your game, using your own measuring stick, you have the option to declare that measuring stick invalid and ignoring the results. What I enjoy about Japanese Mechelin Star chefs is that they often perfect foods from around the world, not only seeing Japanese cuisine as the only option. Amazingly, if you look around the Sauna Club scene, you may see a Star chef who enjoys dining at the why.

Treble Machine
04-22-20, 09:18
I have already gone on record here that in my view, chance of a large FKK like Sharks opening for normal business before the fall is 5% and before the year end is 25%. Those are the odds I give. Others may differ.Username checks out :)

Treble Machine
04-22-20, 09:23
Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight.
Tokyo alone has 4 times the number of restaurants in Paris.

Mr Ho
04-22-20, 12:56
Mr Ho, don't you know that when an outsider beats you at your game, using your own measuring stick, you have the option to declare that measuring stick invalid and ignoring the results. What I enjoy about Japanese Mechelin Star chefs is that they often perfect foods from around the world, not only seeing Japanese cuisine as the only option. Amazingly, if you look around the Sauna Club scene, you may see a Star chef who enjoys dining at the why.Yeah, we even has Japanese chef in Paris making French cuisine owning Michelin stars, we got the best chefs in the world.

Mr Ho
04-22-20, 12:57
Tokyo alone has 4 times the number of restaurants in Paris.So what, we got 4 times better restaurants than Paris.

Mr Ho
04-22-20, 13:07
Well Mr Ho, it depends from the list you take.

If you look at the one by the World Health Organization (and not by an unknown British think tank) such list is quite different and has France and Italy at the top.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

My points are that such lists are rather arbitrary and even the best Healthcare System is not planned to sustain extreme situations.WHO? You mean CHO, chinese health organization.

American accusation to WHO is accurate, WHO is basically bought by China, the head of WHO is ethiopian guy and he used to be health minister back in Ethiopia which is bought by China, so you see the link? The accusation by USA government to WHO is accurate, WHO is so corrupt to the level nation can pay them to say false thing, just like at the beginning of this corona case, WHO claimed based on chinese report that covid 19 is not contagious from human to human, WHO is that corrupt to the extent if one listen to them seriously it shows ones educational level. There are more insane thing WHO said based on chinese reports which were ridiculously false, which they still claim WHO and China handle this properly, if you believe that it is your thing, but WHO is the last thing I would trust.

And WHO put Italy as top nation for medical? Look at the death rates with covid 19. Each nation has things that they are good at, Italy is good at making well designed sport cars with not reliable engineering, best tailoring especially from napoli, only tailoring that can match napoli tailor is saville row london, and south of Italy has amazing food that only France and Japan can compete and also spain too to some extent. So here is also one thing that is wrong with WHO.

Top medical nations are some european nations, Japan and usa. And sadly even then some nations do better than others, but it won't save you from corona, yesterday we just lost former ceo of omron, one of biggest medical company in the world. So one thing that is right is covid 19 do not discriminate and only medicine we got so far is avigan made by fuji film Japan for mild symptom, this was orginally made for bird flu and there is also one from american pharma, the medicine originally made for ebora that seems to be working.

PunterWanderer
04-22-20, 22:00
Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.If only Italy had FKKs or brothels like in Germany, it would become my number one and regular destination for holidays. I go quite often there for work, and indeed it has a decent, relatively cheap incall scene, which I do enjoy (especially Florence in my experience). But if they only set up FKKs there.....

DasBooty
04-22-20, 22:05
Definitely a factor. More? I disagree, but a factor yes. Worth noting that Germany and Italy have the same average age but complete opposite results though. So again, it's a factor but more? Doesn't seem so.https://www.bbc.com/news/52311014


What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?

It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.

Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK. What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.I don't care if you agree with me or not but someone in this forum might read your post and draw a asinine conclusion if they weren't presented with the fact that Europe has an older population and is more densely populated than the US.

Sirioja
04-22-20, 22:40
If only Italy had FKKs or brothels like in Germany, it would become my number one and regular destination for holidays. I go quite often there for work, and indeed it has a decent, relatively cheap incall scene, which I do enjoy (especially Florence in my experience). But if they only set up FKKs there.....For sure, no competition between Italy and Germany, for foods, for way of life, ask Germans who can afford, where they prefer to spend holidays, Germany would be empty. Until 2016, Milano and even sometimes Torino did worth for escorts with your dream girls, Amore Russo, Russian girls.

Sirioja
04-22-20, 22:47
When we see Florida beaches, people claiming against confined, just crazy, let's count how many thousands for the world record and how many unemployed. They think they are stronger than others. Only smokers seem not too infected, but old and fat are in danger.

Mursenary
04-22-20, 22:55
https://www.bbc.com/news/52311014

I don't care if you agree with me or not but someone in this forum might read your post and draw a asinine conclusion if they weren't presented with the fact that Europe has an older population and is more densely populated than the US.All good but I keep just presenting data in the form of rates. Reading the BBC article, it just shows that countries like the UK are underestimating their rates since they are not counting nursing home rates which further makes my case. As opposed to the US where NYC recently added 3 thousand cases that were presumed COVID without a confirmed test.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/nursing-homes-remain-a-concern-as-new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-appears-to-plateau-11586892250

Most importantly and constantly ignored by the population density proponents here. NYC's death rate sit at roughly 50-60% the rate of the 13+% death rate countries like UK, Italy, and France. NYC is more dense than any city or country in Europe and their death rate is the highest in the Us.

The only factor is that UK and France are testing at a lower rate so presumably healthy positives are not being discounted. But despite this, even if their testing were bumped up to match the rate of the United States, their death rates of 13% would still only be lowered enough to match NYC's if, proportionate to testing rate, every single extra test resulted as positive with no death.

Is the 2 year average age difference the only remaining argument here? You'the think that the fat / sick American comorbidities argument would counteract that.

Mursenary
04-22-20, 23:01
All that being said, we're about to reopen half of America in a pretty unrestrained fashion in comparison to Germany and Nordic countries and all hell might break loose. I can't and won't defend the actions of politicians though. I'm only defending the United States' response from a healthcare system perspective up until this peak where social distancing has been practiced, and the data have shown that we've comparatively done just fine despite sensationalized media coverage.

PayForIt
04-23-20, 00:56
the UKWhat the heck is going on over there!Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.

Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!

Mr Ho
04-23-20, 01:10
If only Italy had FKKs or brothels like in Germany, it would become my number one and regular destination for holidays. I go quite often there for work, and indeed it has a decent, relatively cheap incall scene, which I do enjoy (especially Florence in my experience). But if they only set up FKKs there.....With their organization and problem with corruption and mafia, I do not think it will be possible and above all law has to be adjusted like Germany did before FKK to be open in Italy.

However, with Italy's financial difficulty before corona and now it is even worst, there could be some area to debate for such prostitution format to be open there, but I think Italy would go for Chinese easy money again, which world warned them about before corona, but they did not listen and look happen to Italy now.

It is sad because it is beautiful country.

The Cane
04-23-20, 01:50
I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!Also hope FKK Atmos and FKK Babylon Hamburg make it. I too look to return in 2021, but won't if we still have to do things like quarantine for 2 weeks upon arrival. In the meantime, no more pacing around and around and around the club for you Sir PayForIt LOLOLOL! Not until 2021, we hope!

Pessimist
04-23-20, 03:13
Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.

Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!Well, at least BoJo is going in the right direction if reacting late. Being on a death bed does wonders to attain Nirvana and enlightenment. In here, our bozo president has been in a rush to reopen. First, he threatened Churches will be full by Easter at a time when even Mr. Poly is following social distancing, LOL. Now, his sidekick in Georgia is reopening by this weekend. The Georgia governor is saying people in his state should follow appropriate social distancing while he is opening salons, tattoo parlors etc. Apparently, barbers and tattoo artists in the state of Georgia have hands longer than 6 feet.

For the last 3 to 4 weeks IHME has been forecasting UK will have the worst death tolls in Europe by the end of summer. At first, it didn't make sense, as at that time, Italy looked awful and yet IHME was saying UK death toll will be almost twice as much as Italy toll. Now, it seems UK indeed did screw up, but then again, we are numero uno in global death tolls. Our latest attempt to make our country great again.

Mr Ho
04-23-20, 03:24
Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.

Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!Till end of this year? Well if so, UK economy will be destroyed even more than it was before and be ready for China to buy UK for cheap price.

China began to buy up Brent oil that is so low due to covid 19 crisis and failure of OPEC plus, namely Saudi and Russian government.

Mursenary
04-23-20, 04:49
Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.This is hilarious. It's not even close that Japan is leaps and bounds above Italy in culinary arts. Want simple good food, sure Italy is great. For true culinary art, it's Japan 100 x.

Sirioja
04-23-20, 09:23
Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.

Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!In 3 or 4 last days, + 10000 in US, but they are enjoying Florida beaches, they go to religious meetings, God will protect them to catch, when spreading in France started after a religious meeting close to Germany and Switzerland and people returning at home with virus. They also ask to stop confined. Like for free weapons, just danger.

Dreams
04-23-20, 12:59
Paris is image thing, it has some nice architecture, but if you actually go there, it is just partly beautiful, in most part it stinks, not clean and full of tourists, not safe. And french people are not so kind hearted especially in Paris..Mr Ho,

I often, but not always, agree with your views.

But I think you should look at your own people occasionally before making harsh comments on others.

I love Japan, been there more than 50 times in the last 20 years, longing to be allowed in back, f. 100's of women there. But like all places, like Paris it has its dark sides. Such as open xenophobia: How often did I get the cross arms sign when trying to enter a public place (and not always sex related shops)? And, although this is less the case since a few years, how often did people getting in to the subway tried sitting as far from me as they could? And especially in more remote parts of the country (I have driven all over Japan.), if you don't at least speak a few words, a foreigner just can't get to a traditional restaurant or ryoken. "Japanese Only " sign is just something which would be illegal in most other democracies.

I have made the effort to learn basic Japanese which has changed a lot the way the locals treat me. I don't think many Japanese visiting France have made the same effort, and still they will be accepted in any business.

Cheers!

Mursenary
04-23-20, 16:43
Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.

Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!I'm sure social distancing measures will be the norm for many other countries too. That being said, I'm guessing that society will not be shut down in the UK for the rest of 2020. Perhaps capacity limits will be in place and adorning protective gear may be an option. No way British pubs remain completely closed throughout the year right? Right!

ShooBree
04-23-20, 18:03
Well, at least BoJo is going in the right direction if reacting late. Being on a death bed does wonders to attain Nirvana and enlightenment. In here, our bozo president has been in a rush to reopen. First, he threatened Churches will be full by Easter at a time when even Mr. Poly is following social distancing, LOL. Now, his sidekick in Georgia is reopening by this weekend. The Georgia governor is saying people in his state should follow appropriate social distancing while he is opening salons, tattoo parlors etc. Apparently, barbers and tattoo artists in the state of Georgia have hands longer than 6 feet.

For the last 3 to 4 weeks IHME has been forecasting UK will have the worst death tolls in Europe by the end of summer. At first, it didn't make sense, as at that time, Italy looked awful and yet IHME was saying UK death toll will be almost twice as much as Italy toll. Now, it seems UK indeed did screw up, but then again, we are numero uno in global death tolls. Our latest attempt to make our country great again.The Biggest failure for USA is the number of newly unemployed, truly horrifying. Trump have to open up the country. Stop destroying the world economy and the lives of millions.

These draconian measures have done more harm than good, let's get smart about it.

Sirioja
04-23-20, 19:55
Till end of this year? Well if so, UK economy will be destroyed even more than it was before and be ready for China to buy UK for cheap price.

China began to buy up Brent oil that is so low due to covid 19 crisis and failure of OPEC plus, namely Saudi and Russian government.Was virus a strategy to spread power?

Treble Machine
04-23-20, 20:03
Paris is image thing, it has some nice architecture, but if you actually go there, it is just partly beautiful, in most part it stinks, not clean and full of tourists, not safe. And french people are not so kind hearted especially in Paris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome

Sirioja
04-23-20, 20:36
This is hilarious. It's not even close that Japan is leaps and bounds above Italy in culinary arts. Want simple good food, sure Italy is great. For true culinary art, it's Japan 100 x.I will keep on preferring Italy, Spain, Lebanon, than Asian foods.

Pistons
04-23-20, 21:49
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndromeNever been to Paris, mainly due to no FKKs. But also because around here it has the reputation of being a bit gay, with men using too much styling of clothes and hair, and acting like desperate once they see a northern girl. So it comes off as trying to impress people in a bit fake manner.

But lately some people also claim that is not the situation any longer too. But with corona, Who knows? We can't even travel anywhere.

Polyamorist
04-23-20, 21:52
I love Japan, been there more than 50 times in the last 20 years, longing to be allowed in back, f. 100's of women there. But like all places, like Paris it has its dark sides. Such as open xenophobia: How often did I get the cross arms sign when trying to enter a public place (and not always sex related shops)?Salaam Dreams,

If you encounter xenophobia in Paris or Tokyo, just whip out your Qur'an and start chanting. Works wonders for me. If God is on my side, who will be against me?

The modern equivalent would be to cough your way through the door.

BodyAnybody
04-23-20, 22:31
The US has a total of less than 1000 deaths in the last 5 days. We have a total of less than 50000 deaths nationwide for the entire pandemic. In a nation of 330,000,000 people. Yes, a lot of us are finished watching politicians grab for power using the pandemic as an excuse, and we are hitting the streets to protest.

McAdonis
04-23-20, 23:51
This is hilarious. It's not even close that Japan is leaps and bounds above Italy in culinary arts. Want simple good food, sure Italy is great. For true culinary art, it's Japan 100 x.Tongue-in-cheek-article by British author who lives in Italy and is not a fan Italian food:


"A few months ago, Nigerian migrants housed at a government hostel in Milan suddenly refused to eat any more of the free food on offer. Italian food is monotonous and indigestable, they explained. Then they went berserk."

https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/even-hunry-migrants-wont-eat-the-food-in-italy/
In general, Italians don't have an appreciation for non-Italian food. Older Italians are set in their ways. Italians under age of 25 haven't discovered anything beyond McDonalds yet. Italians between ages of 25-35 are slightly more open-minded perhaps due to instagram and "foodie" culture. But overall, there is not a lot of ethnic food in Italy, besides cheap all you can eat Chinese buffet. Most Italians don't realize that the Chinese customers either order from a completely different menu or they go to different Chinese restaurants where the clientele is 80 percent Chinese. In other words, the average Italians' appreciation of Chinese food, would be the equivalent of one of us judging Romanian beauty based off of a one time visit to an AO club that only had six WGs in their daily LU.


\NYC's death rate sit at roughly 50-60% the rate of the 13+% death rate countries like UK, Italy, and France. NYC is more dense than any city or country in Europe and their death rate is the highest in the Us.Here are the death rates for Germany and Korea: 65 deaths per million, 5 deaths per million.

Korea's health care system is world class, but are you going to tell me it is 13 times better than that of Germany? Of course not, Korea's numbers are low because their government was more prepared and did not underestimate the threat.

Mursenary
04-24-20, 01:11
Here are the death rates for Germany and Korea: 65 deaths per million, 5 deaths per million.

Korea's health care system is world class, but are you going to tell me it is 13 times better than that of Germany? Of course not, Korea's numbers are low because their government was more prepared and did not underestimate the threat.Definitely not 13 times better if any better at all. I wouldn't dare say that the healthcare system quality and death rates have a true linear correlation. Now the preparedness of the Korean government and its people status post SARS circa 2004 may however have an exponential correlation to their low death rates.

Fact remains, US has one of the highest ICU beds per capita, dialysis machines per capita, ventilators per capita in the world. The fact that we traditionally spend / waste tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars per patient per ICU visit to revive people who will surely survive to only live a poor quality of life has trained our healthcare providers for this outbreak. Our system is built to handle the extremely sick, we're used to high acuity patients. It's just the primary care system and general health of the population where there are holes.

Mr Ho
04-24-20, 01:26
Was virus a strategy to spread power?I do not think China leaked it on purpose, no, they are not that crazy, but they will use it to buy out companies etc to spread power, and they already began, they are buying up rock bottom Brent oil now and their rapid movement in south China sea with battle ship after a US air craft carrier is taken out with virus.

Mursenary
04-24-20, 01:27
The US has a total of less than 1000 deaths in the last 5 days. We have a total of less than 50000 deaths nationwide for the entire pandemic. In a nation of 330,000,000 people. Yes, a lot of us are finished watching politicians grab for power using the pandemic as an excuse, and we are hitting the streets to protest.Well, actually over 2000 per day, so perhaps you meant 10 K?

Mr Ho
04-24-20, 01:29
Salaam Dreams,

If you encounter xenophobia in Paris or Tokyo, just whip out your Qur'an and start chanting. Works wonders for me. If God is on my side, who will be against me?

The modern equivalent would be to cough your way through the door.Actually, Japan is one of most pro Muslim nation, we are more neutral toward them. As an example, Japan is one of most understanding of ally of Iran, it is just that Japan is always sandwiched between USA and Saudi Arabia, which both are good friend of Japan, but they both hate Iran, but we try to be intermediary, which is proved to be impossibly hard LOL.

Mr Ho
04-24-20, 01:31
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndromeIts a nice city, but it is not as good as image they managed to build. French and Italian are best for marketing. I mean look at their fashion industry LOL!. It is quality product, but when they begin selling hand bag for 6000 euro minimum up to half million dollar for Himalayan chroco Hermes bag LOL, it is called best marketing in the world. So it is good quality place, but not as good as they managed to market it.

DasBooty
04-24-20, 07:04
All good but I keep just presenting data in the form of rates. Reading the BBC article, it just shows that countries like the UK are underestimating their rates since they are not counting nursing home rates which further makes my case.The takeaway from the article:


For comparisons to be useful, says Rowland Kao, professor of data science at the University of Edinburgh, there are two broad issues to consider.

"Does the underlying data mean the same thing? And does it make sense to compare two sets of numbers if the epidemiology (all the other factors surrounding the spread of the disease) is different?"As long as countries test and report differently comparisons won't be useful. Unless you are this clown https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/04/22/rtx7e5su_custom-83a53661626292123cbf6eb597d8035bd7b40079-s800-c85.jpg.

Sirioja
04-24-20, 11:23
Never been to Paris, mainly due to no FKKs. But also because around here it has the reputation of being a bit gay, with men using too much styling of clothes and hair, and acting like desperate once they see a northern girl. So it comes off as trying to impress people in a bit fake manner.

But lately some people also claim that is not the situation any longer too. But with corona, Who knows? We can't even travel anywhere.But Russian, Belarus, Latvian, Estonian, Polish, Croatian escorts, even we lost when closed on 2016 after police raid, probably best escorts agency, Amour Russe.

I think Paris is famous enough all over the world, I don t need to promote. Only Saint Petersburg, Roma, Athens and a bit different but Istanbul and Jerusalem can compete with Paris, I mean for culture. But many of our best cooker and restaurants are in other parts of France. Center and around Lyon are famous for high level restaurants. Most of our best cooker are famous enough and don t need anymore guide Michelin promotion, only useful for those who look for promotion. Paris water is still safe for me, and used by more than 10 millions people around.

But too many deaths, around 21 000 deaths now from covid in France, 80% older than 70 yo and 67% of others with health problems. Confined since 17 March would have saved more than 60 000 life, and only about 5% people were infected, according to our medical staff. Under confined until 11 May, but restart work on field with my teams on 1 April, after getting administration allowances about safety conditions made for guys. But, like me, they are happy to work to have full earning to eat. In France, unemployed are paid 84% but with a limit, I would not be paid 84% of my full earning, so I prefer to work, at same risk with my guys, and to pay tax for my country which should be at least 200 billions deficit at the end of the year. Real crisis. My guys are funny, telling me when they came back after about 2 or 3 weeks: We are better to work, we were bored with wife all day at home. Maybe should have been good time to seduce her again and to fuck her a lot, like a princess, to give her plenty of orgasms, then usually women ask for again, when they often find guys boring for sex.

Polyamorist
04-24-20, 19:10
Dreams, your mailbox is full but I posted a question for you in the FKK Lounge.

McGrath
04-24-20, 19:33
Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.

Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!Today I am happy that I have both a UK and Swedish passport. I have stayed in Sweden for the last 2 months so I have avoided the UK lockdown. UK is in a bit of mess battling this but Swedens strategy is terrible in my opinion. It is saved because of the low density of population. Hope Sharks make it so I can go in December, Screw the rest of the clubs.

Sirioja
04-24-20, 21:15
Its a nice city, but it is not as good as image they managed to build. French and Italian are best for marketing. I mean look at their fashion industry LOL!. It is quality product, but when they begin selling hand bag for 6000 euro minimum up to half million dollar for Himalayan chroco Hermes bag LOL, it is called best marketing in the world. So it is good quality place, but not as good as they managed to market it.Paris, Italy are glamour, where is glamour in Asia, or even US now, except Victoria secret. Many Russian escorts go to Dubaï for big money, or to Ibiza for party, but most don't return, but they return to Paris where less money to make, but for fashion. I m happy about that.

Pistons
04-25-20, 03:41
Paris, Italy are glamour, where is glamour in Asia,It is very locallized in Asia. You can probably never find a single pure glam city. But many cities with a few glam places around Asia. Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo of course. But also Shanghai can be very upscale. I only know Singapore and HK very well myself, but have friends in the other two also. Even Bangkok, Beijing and Shenzhen has some upscale places now. All of which I have been to.

Mr Ho
04-25-20, 04:10
Paris, Italy are glamour, where is glamour in Asia, or even US now, except Victoria secret. Many Russian escorts go to Duba for big money, or to Ibiza for party, but most don't return, but they return to Paris where less money to make, but for fashion. I m happy about that.Do you know that each Asian nations are different?

Like Kyoto is by far more beautiful than Paris, more safe, more clean as well with better food, but it is different, I like Paris, but I am saying it is over hyped with not good quality, it is more marketing based city, that is Paris.

Where as Japan, Tokyo and Kyoto etc. We don't do marketing much, foreign people did marketing for me and hey it was mostly french fashion industry people who loved Japan and did marketing for us by word of mouth based on quality.

I recommend to be more culturally aware and travel bit more and learn that Asia is not country LOL. There are Japan, China, Thailand, Indonesia etc etc. And they are all completely different.

I am very well traveled, well educated, well cultured guy and I know all European nations are different, and I have been to most European nations both west and east, so learn that Asia is continent and not one country LOL.

France and Japan are actually two biggest partner for most highest culture, it is too sad that in France, only top people in fashion industry and politicians and such knows about this and working class citizens are still limited on knowledge about high quality of Japanese culture even with food you don't know LOL.

Pistons
04-25-20, 04:15
I thought Victoria Secrets went bankrupt though. Too hard competition with Wish and Ali-Express I suppose.

But the sad part about Asia is actually how it turns more 'glam'. Because the east Asian idea of glam is more like KTVS. Translation: 'Korny Trivial Vinegar Strokes'. Koreans, Chinese and probably Japanese also have already ruined large parts of SE asia with their imported KTV's: Which are basically over expensive talk-bars where the girls are dressed up in long dresses. And everything is an extra. Plus you need to pay a lot of ladies drinks. Biggest waste of time you do in Asia is ending up in these places. Something I've done in Macau, Bangkok, Manila, Angeles, Changping and Saigon. Only Changping was fine because I skipped all the wasted talk. But that was just before the crackdown. So no more. And some other places I had to use a local as a translator. LOL! That was a bit weird to say the least.

Polyamorist
04-25-20, 04:15
Swedens strategy is terrible in my opinion. It is saved because of the low density of population.It is no more sparse than Texas.

Sweden has achieved similar results to other European countries -- but without any lockdown at all. Its strategy is herd immunity. If this works, then in a couple of weeks time Sweden will enjoy results considerable better than everyone else. Then the other countries will quietly abandon the concept of lockdown and let the economy run free again.

Inshallah!

By the way this is a great resource to see which countries are in lockdown and which are not:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52103747

Pony Boy
04-25-20, 06:09
How can you say that if Japan has one of the lowest if not the lowest Muslim percentage of total population among major countries in the world. Plus, it is not difficult to find reports on Japan trying to avoid Muslim immigrants as much as possible over the past years. On the other hand, why don't you ask the admin to open a sub-forum here which is called: Japan is great.


Actually, Japan is one of most pro Muslim nation, we are more neutral toward them. As an example, Japan is one of most understanding of ally of Iran, it is just that Japan is always sandwiched between USA and Saudi Arabia, which both are good friend of Japan, but they both hate Iran, but we try to be intermediary, which is proved to be impossibly hard LOL.

Pistons
04-25-20, 08:02
But Russian, Belarus, Latvian, Estonian, Polish, Croatian escorts, even we lost when closed on 2016 after police raid, probably best escorts agency, Amour Russe.

I think Paris is famous enough all over the world, I don t need to promote. Only Saint Petersburg, Roma, Athens and a bit different but Istanbul and Jerusalem can compete with Paris, I mean for culture. You started off well. But then you seemed to lost track of what isgers define as culture. Bangkok, Frankfurt, Rio, Macau, Dusseldorf, Prague, Madrid, Barcelona, Bogota, Cali. Now there is some culture!

Arnold15
04-25-20, 12:31
It is no more sparse than Texas.

Sweden has achieved similar results to other European countries -- but without any lockdown at all. Its strategy is herd immunity. If this works, then in a couple of weeks time Sweden will enjoy results considerable better than everyone else. Then the other countries will quietly abandon the concept of lockdown and let the economy run free again.

Inshallah!

By the way this is a great resource to see which countries are in lockdown and which are not:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52103747The open strategy works very good here in Sweden.

Estimations show that at least 1/3 of population in Stockholm is immune now. Authorities expect that 50 percent will be immune within one month.

There will probably be a second BIG wave of Corona in autumn. Then lock-down countries are unprotected.

Sweden will be protected by heard immunity.

Downandup
04-25-20, 14:32
You started off well. But then you seemed to lost track of what isgers define as culture. Bangkok, Frankfurt, Rio, Macau, Dusseldorf, Prague, Madrid, Barcelona, Bogota, Cali. Now there is some culture!These are all top destinations, I just wonder which one I will be able to reach first.

Sirioja
04-25-20, 15:10
You started off well. But then you seemed to lost track of what isgers define as culture. Bangkok, Frankfurt, Rio, Macau, Dusseldorf, Prague, Madrid, Barcelona, Bogota, Cali. Now there is some culture!I really apologize, I was not on this level of culture for below belt. At the moment, I worry much about crisis than paid sex. When I went weekly, but I manage easy without. No frustration, only big one about no ski. I'm more in hurry to get freedom than paid sex. When open, I go, when closed, I live without, I'm a simple man, easy.

Sirioja
04-25-20, 15:14
These are all top destinations, I just wonder which one I will be able to reach first.Among Spain, NL, Switzerland, Germany and Austria, I think Austria should open first. Maybe time to discover Vienna, because I don t know how Wellcum and Andiamo can work without Italians, when they are more Italian than Austrian. Maybe before Summer for Austria.

Sirioja
04-25-20, 15:18
The open strategy works very good here in Sweden.

Estimations show that at least 1/3 of population in Stockholm is immune now. Authorities expect that 50 percent will be immune within one month.

There will probably be a second BIG wave of Corona in autumn. Then lock-down countries are unprotected.

Sweden will be protected by heard immunity.Because you think catching and recovering make immune? Not so sure for weakest. I think we have to live with this virus risk now, kind of Russian roulette.

Arnold15
04-25-20, 16:07
Because you think catching and recovering make immune? Not so sure for weakest. I think we have to live with this virus risk now, kind of Russian roulette.Yes, catching and recovering = immune.

Definitely.

WHO and China spread fake news that there is no immunity.

But there is a Hidden Agenda.

China WANTS the U.S. and Europe to lock-down, so China can gain economic advantages.

New BIG immunity test undertaken in Stockholm will be presented in news tomorrow.

I will then link.

Provisonal estimates show "considerably higher immunity" than Chinese tests (2-3 % immune = fake).