Monterrey

[Chester Boy]

Total BS, not true.

Please post the link to the news report. The rest is hearsay. Your hearsay.I agree. All is safe. No chance of violence. Safer than the US. Come on down. Bring cash. Plenty of beautiful girls at El Infinito, but only at El Infinito. No grenade attacks, either.

Monterreydude, where do they get these things?

[MonterreyDude]

boys, boys, boys... such manners.

I could quote and place the link to several violent examples that have recently happened, extremely recent as a matter of fact, but I am letting you boys mention them instead of me.




I agree. All is safe. No chance of violence. Safer than the US. Come on down. Bring cash. Plenty of beautiful girls at El Infinito, but only at El Infinito. No grenade attacks, either.

Monterreydude, where do they get these things?

[Blourghus]

They have suspended all bus routes within a 50 mile radius of Miguel Aleman.
Can some resourceful person please kindly get on the horn with the bus station over in Ciudad Miguel Aleman and verify/debunk this claim. Hate to see arguments over facts which can so easily be established as truth or lie.

[Chester Boy]

Can some resourceful person please kindly get on the horn with the bus station over in Ciudad Miguel Aleman and verify/debunk this claim. Hate to see arguments over facts which can so easily be established as truth or lie.I just called the bus station.

They said there were no problems and that everyone should come to El Infinito in Monterrey with pockets full of cash. Zero chance of violence. They also said that anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.

Contact Monterreydude for the "girl friendly" hotels and he'll tell you where you HAVE TO stay in Monterrey.

Repeating: All is safe. Bring Cash. Come to El Infinito. No Violence. Never happens.

[MonterreyDude]

Chester Boy, Blourhgus is a world class monger, and customer of Infinito for many years now.

He's not falling for your BS.



I just called the bus station.

They said there were no problems and that everyone should come to El Infinito in Monterrey with pockets full of cash. Zero chance of violence. They also said that anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.

Contact Monterreydude for the "girl friendly" hotels and he'll tell you where you HAVE TO stay in Monterrey.

Repeating: All is safe. Bring Cash. Come to El Infinito. No Violence. Never happens.

[Chester Boy]

Chester Boy, Blourhgus is a world class monger, and customer of Infinito for many years now.

He's not falling for your BS.My BS is your BS, buddy.

We are in complete agreement now.

All is well. Bring cash. Never any violence. Zero chance of violence. Let's all meet at Infinito for a man party.

[Member #3453]

I visited Monterrey a few years ago, and found a girl I really liked. I don't remember the name of the bar, but I do remember is was across the street from one name Tangrala or something like that. Her name was Cecelia. Anybody know a Cecilia. She was really thin, and reminded me of a crack *****. But, she was hot. Sorry to be so vague, but it's been a few years ago, and I just don't remember this shit after so long.

Coming back in a few weeks, and want to look her up if she's still around.

[Member #3453]

I took the bus between Nuevo Laredo and Monterrey within the last 24 hours. I left after 4:30pm, and I arrived just around dark. I was aware of the dangers on the highways. But, talking with some guys I know that live in Nuevo Laredo, they advised me just to stick with daytime land travel and you should be ok.

I visited one of the bars recommended here called Azul Tequilla. I spent about 1400 pesos over a couple of hours. There were two or three hot girls out of maybe 15. I took two of the hot girls for privados, bought a few dtinks, and the best of the three I was waiting for finally became available.

I then took her up to the VIP for a Jarra, which cost me around 350 pesos. The room was completely private, except for the occasional interruptions by the waiter. There was NO SEX to be had, just lap dancing, and as much groping as you can get in.

The overall experience was expensive in contrast to what I've read here with respect to actually having sex. Were I to advise others, I would not recommend spending a lot of money inside the bars. Based on what I'm reading her, you can get a lot more in the MPs or paying for salidas than you can staying at the bars and using their facilities. They will just scam you if you let them get away with baiting you with what they're going to do for you.

[Member #3453]

I took the bus between Nuevo Laredo and Monterrey Within the last 24 hours. I left after 4:30pm, and I arrived just around dark. I was aware of the dangers on the highways. But, talking with some guys that live in Nuevo Laredo, they told me just to stick with daytime travel and it should be ok.

I visited one of the bars called Azul Tequilla. I spent about 1400 pesos over a couple of hours. There were two or three hot girls out of maybe 15. I took two of the hot girls for privados, bought a few drinks. The hottest of the three finally became available.

I took her to the VIP for a Jarra, which cost me around 350 pesos. The room was completely private, but for the occasional interruptions by the waiter. There was NO SEX to be had, just lap dancing, and as much groping as you can get in.

You can get a lot more making outside arrangements than you can staying at the bars and using their facilities. They will just scam you if you let them get away with baiting you. But, I have the number of the hotty, and we're getting together later today for 1000 pesos.

[Member #3453]

I visited Monterrey a few years ago, and found a girl I really liked. I don't remember the name of the bar, but I do remember is was across the street from one name Tangrala or something like that. Her name was Cecelia. Anybody know a Cecilia. She was really thin, and reminded me of a crack *****. But, she was hot. Sorry to be so vague, but it's been a few years ago, and I just don't remember this shit after so long.

Coming back in a few weeks, and want to look her up if she's still around.You mean she was just thin, or actually a "crack *****" look. That doesn't seem to hot, but to each his own.

[Member #3453]

I visited Monterrey a few years ago, and found a girl I really liked. I don't remember the name of the bar, but I do remember is was across the street from one name Tangrala or something like that. Her name was Cecelia. Anybody know a Cecilia. She was really thin, and reminded me of a crack *****. But, she was hot. Sorry to be so vague, but it's been a few years ago, and I just don't remember this shit after so long.

Coming back in a few weeks, and want to look her up if she's still around.I was at Paserelas last night. There is a girl there that is really thin. She may be the girl you're looking for. She looked healthier than a crack *****, but she was damned thin. She sat with me for a while, but don't remember names. You could look for her there. It might be her. You can't miss her. She even kept bringing up that she is sooooooo thin. Yeah, you're thin baby.

[Blourghus]

Caught a link someone posted in the Nuevo Laredo topic which indicated Palacio de Hierro has been "held up by gunmen" three times this year. I had no idea about this although that's been one of my big hang outs this summer. Absolutely no sign that anything was abnormal as of a week or two ago.

Maybe the Infinito danger is overblown and the real danger is taking your girlfriend shopping to the mall. I mention this partly because I see more gringos hanging out with their Monterrey girlfriends in the various malls in San Pedro than I see anywhere else on the planet.

[MonterreyDude]

Of course it's overblown.
Chesterboy has never been here to Monterrey.

Blourghus, Palacio de Hierro was robbed a couple of months ago and that's it. The other instance happened years ago.
No more.
And it wasn't "held", just the jewelry section Tiffany's has been afected, not the whole store.
You've been here. Thing is that Colonia del Valle folk do not want armed guards around them even if it means that the stores for the rich can be targets for robberies.
So even if it was robbed, no guards will be posted.






Caught a link someone posted in the Nuevo Laredo topic which indicated Palacio de Hierro has been "held up by gunmen" three times this year. I had no idea about this although that's been one of my big hang outs this summer. Absolutely no sign that anything was abnormal as of a week or two ago.

Maybe the Infinito danger is overblown and the real danger is taking your girlfriend shopping to the mall. I mention this partly because I see more gringos hanging out with their Monterrey girlfriends in the various malls in San Pedro than I see anywhere else on the planet.

[Member #3453]

Well, crime is one thing, and anarchy is another. Mexico is poised on the verge of anarchy right now. I wish it were so easy as to be only dealing with the crime, which runs just as rampant in the USA. No, this is a different animal.

The danger is to the average bystander caught in the crossfire as the gangs battle each other, and the government battles the cartels, all of them having little regard for the innocents that might get caught in the crossfire.

There is no safe place to be. But, none the less, life goes on. And, If you have to live here, you might as well be getting some pussy in the process.

[Member #3453]

Well, I agree that traveling into Mexico at all is taking your life in your own hands these days. But, if you have to travel into Mexico, I can not say enough about the Mexican Bus System. Mexico may be a shit hole, but one thing they do have perfected in every way is the Mexican Bus System. Just compare TuriStar or Noreste to Greyhound. What a fuckin' cluster Greyhound is. Been there, done that. You will be amazed at how comfy and well operated the Mexican Bus Lines are. Miracles never cease.

[Chester Boy]

Of course it's overblown.

Chesterboy has never been here to Monterrey.

Blourghus, Palacio de Hierro was robbed a couple of months ago and that's it. The other instance happened years ago.

No more.

And it wasn't "held", just the jewelry section Tiffany's has been afected, not the whole store.

You've been here. Thing is that Colonia del Valle folk do not want armed guards around them even if it means that the stores for the rich can be targets for robberies.

So even if it was robbed, no guards will be posted.As residents of Monterrey, Monterreydude and I know what the real deal is.

There is no danger in Monterrey. No violence whatsoever. It's all overblown.come down to Infinito and bring plenty of cash. If you want the real information, you must meet personally with Monterreydude.come alone with plenty of cash for the hot women.

[Chester Boy]

The Palacio de Hierro was robbed by armed men two times almost within same month. These type of crime is reported by noticias but most individual crime are not. This week an open air mall and also a very large enclosed mall where held up by armed men and ended up in one dead. The enclosed mall was entirely shut down. A friend also tell me that a semi-new car lot owner in the same city of Palacio de Hierro was kidnapped yesterday.

There's no reazon to try defend the safety of Monterrey right now. It is very violent and getting worse.Lies and BS. Monterreydude and I live here in Monterrey and the worst you will find is minor traffic violations.

I really have to question the agendas of all these trolls making accounts and posting their fantasies. Look at how few posts they have! They can't be trusted.

Take it from veteran resident Monterreydude. If you come to Monterrey and go to Infnito, you will be safe no matter what. But bring plenty of cash.

I laugh out loud when I read about crime in Monterrey. There's a 0% chance of violent crime in Monterrey. Never happens. This is so ridiculous that it's funny.

[Member #3453]

One Fucking question: Does "anybody" have anything to say about finding pussy in the Monterrey Section.

[Blourghus]

The thing about the Palacio de Hierro is that it "appears" to be a safe place and I would have never guessed there was ever any danger there recently. Yet, Infinito has the outward appearance of being much less safe by comparison, although there seem to have been no recent confirmed incidents there. If you asked me, I would have said unequivocally (without looking at any actual data to back up the claim) that Palacio de Hierro was much safer. But, even now knowing this information, I would still take a lot more precautions in the future at Infinito than at Palacio de Hierro.

Most travellers have a tendendency to cloud their safety judgments by what they have experienced themselves. Folks are quick to declare some place as "safe" just because they passed through it and never personally witnessed any problem with their own eyes. I see this all the time on travel sites. On the other extreme there are people who will never leave their house because they are afraid they will get hit by a car. Everybody has very different expectations, and very different thresholds of what constitutes danger. In the end the debate is unwinnable for either side, and you will never convince anybody of your position. Playing down actual security threats, and overreacting to existing security threats, are equally irresponsible. The most useful thing would be to share as specific information as you can regarding safety situation, data and experiences, to help other guys and keep them safe (but not too safe).

[Member #3453]

That is the reasonable point of view. The information about the occurrence of such crimes is important for everyone to assess their own safety. But, the general cat fighting that seems to be going on here between rival members is relatively worthless. We all know that there are dangers in Mexico right now. But, giving up on pussy isn't a reasonable expectation for me. I would never have gone to Rio so many times back when I could afford it had fear overpowered this horn dog.


The thing about the Palacio de Hierro is that it "appears" to be a safe place and I would have never guessed there was ever any danger there recently. Yet, Infinito has the outward appearance of being much less safe by comparison, although there seem to have been no recent confirmed incidents there. If you asked me, I would have said unequivocally (without looking at any actual data to back up the claim) that Palacio de Hierro was much safer. But, even now knowing this information, I would still take a lot more precautions in the future at Infinito than at Palacio de Hierro.

Most travellers have a tendendency to cloud their safety judgments by what they have experienced themselves. Folks are quick to declare some place as "safe" just because they passed through it and never personally witnessed any problem with their own eyes. I see this all the time on travel sites. On the other extreme there are people who will never leave their house because they are afraid they will get hit by a car. Everybody has very different expectations, and very different thresholds of what constitutes danger. In the end the debate is unwinnable for either side, and you will never convince anybody of your position. Playing down actual security threats, and overreacting to existing security threats, are equally irresponsible. The most useful thing would be to share as specific information as you can regarding safety situation, data and experiences, to help other guys and keep them safe (but not too safe).

[Doubt98]

Why is the USA governement not doing anything. Why?


What can the US government do? It's Mexico and we can't just send troops into another nation (so close to us). Besides, we have our hands full with the countries we have already invaded.

[MonterreyDude]

Ahem... Chester Boy, allow me to remind you that Marius is the one that lives in Monterrey, not you.

Freudian slip, I guess.
So many handles, mistakes are always bound to come.




As residents of Monterrey, Monterreydude and I know what the real deal is.

There is no danger in Monterrey. No violence whatsoever. It's all overblown.come down to Infinito and bring plenty of cash. If you want the real information, you must meet personally with Monterreydude.come alone with plenty of cash for the hot women.

[Captain 1201]

Ahem... Chester Boy, allow me to remind you that Marius is the one that lives in Monterrey, not you.

Freudian slip, I guess.
So many handles, mistakes are always bound to come.Ah, My friend...It is YOU who is mistaken...Remember, I live in Monterrey and work in the food distribution industry? Remember, I've witnessed the wide-spread extortion first-hand? I know you are increasingly famous for your denials of reality, but does that also go towards denials of identity? LOL.

Go back and check if you don't believe me.

But, in any case, you have convinced me that all the crime and heavy-handed extortion was little more than an optical illusion. There is zero chance of violence in Monterrey and all reports of anything violent are merely lies from imposters and people who just don't know. Bring cash. Come to Infinito. Meet with you. All is safe.

[Chester Boy]

Ah, My friend...It is YOU who is mistaken...Remember, I live in Monterrey and work in the food distribution industry? Remember, I've witnessed the wide-spread extortion first-hand? I know you are increasingly famous for your denials of reality, but does that also go towards denials of identity? LOL.

Go back and check if you don't believe me.

But, in any case, you have convinced me that all the crime and heavy-handed extortion was little more than an optical illusion. There is zero chance of violence in Monterrey and all reports of anything violent are merely lies from imposters and people who just don't know. Bring cash. Come to Infinito. Meet with you. All is safe.WTF is going on? The harassment is insane here. This Captain 1201 character is assuming my identity now? Is that the fake name of the two board bullies?

I am the one in the food distribution industry, but, yeah, I am a resident of Monterrey and I can vouch for Monterreydude's claims. Everything is way overblown. No violence whatsoever. Zero chance of problems. Come to Infinito.

[Member #3453]

Took a girl out of Pasarelas tonight. She was a hot, thin, morena with reddish hair. She was fantastic, and had an ass to die for. Had I not stopped her, she would have pushed in sin condom because she was really getting into rubbing around the outside of her snatch. This is one of the hottest girls I have ever found. I got her number and will look her up again. The cost was 850 pesos for the bar fine, and she wanted 1000 pesos for her time. She spent two hours with me. Her name is Esmeralda for anybody wanting to look her up. But, beware, she is so horney that once she gets going you'll have to beat her off with a stick.

[Member #3453]

Now it's on to San Luis Potosi by bus. I have asked if there is any action in San Luis Potosi in the "Other Areas" section, but no answer. Anybody know anything about San Luis?

[MonterreyDude]

There have been some changes in pricing regarding Obsession's afternoon buffet.

Prices are as follow now:
150 pesos. Includes cover, food, and a drink.
200 pesos. Includes cover, food, a drink, a ladies drink and a dance
250 pesos. Includes cover, food, a drink, a ladies drink and 2 dances.

150 pesos is plain highway robbery.
Thing is they are forcing you into buy the 200 and 250 peso options, cause honestly speaking those options are incredibly good.
At the regular prices Obsession charges, it's like getting the buffet and a drink for free.
But of course, the customer is forced into choosing something that might not be in his mind.

Anyway, those are the standing prices at Obsession afternoon shift right now.

[MonterreyDude]

PM me next time you around LaParca.
Seems you missed Poisson. Your spending budget will be good at this club.




Now it's on to San Luis Potosi by bus. I have asked if there is any action in San Luis Potosi in the "Other Areas" section, but no answer. Anybody know anything about San Luis?

[Doubt98]

But of course, the customer is forced into choosing something that might not be in his mind.

I've been there and If those things are NOT on your mind by the time you finish the buffet, then you had no business going in the first place.

[Blourghus]

150 pesos is plain highway robbery.


LOL, I don't know too many places where you can get so much for so little, I mean, even if you just wanted to eat. It was the deal of the century when it was 50 pesos and still is a great deal. A nice cover keeps out the riff raff, I wish more clubs would charge high covers.

I would pay 500 pesos to get in if they banned the damned cigarettes.

[MonterreyDude]

It was the other way around.
Smoking customers won over nonsmoking.

When the cigarette ban was implemented, businesses like the Amnesia, Prestige, Obsession... all went down.
Customers didn't want to stay if they weren't allowed to smoke.




LOL, I don't know too many places where you can get so much for so little, I mean, even if you just wanted to eat. It was the deal of the century when it was 50 pesos and still is a great deal. A nice cover keeps out the riff raff, I wish more clubs would charge high covers.

I would pay 500 pesos to get in if they banned the damned cigarettes.

[Bbond]

It was the other way around.
Smoking customers won over nonsmoking.

When the cigarette ban was implemented, businesses like the Amnesia, Prestige, Obsession... all went down.
Customers didn't want to stay if they weren't allowed to smoke.
Being a smoker, I emphasize with that, when a smoker drinks he wants to smoke, and a lot of girls like a cigarette now and then too.

[Blourghus]

It's unfortunate because many other third world countries (including Colombia & Thailand) implement no-smoking both in the books & in practice including in strip clubs so I don't know why Mexico has so much trouble catching up with the rest of the world on this. It's 2010 and its seems like some sort of human rights violation to still be allowing people to smoke in public anywhere on the planet. Monterrey is actually not that bad, and it's mainly the girls who I can just tell to go away. The absolute worst is Tijuana where you can be guaranteed as soon as you sit down some inconsiderate asshole (always a gringo) will sit down right next to you and light up without even bothering to check if it's OK with you, so the whole time becomes constantly finding a smoke free spot. Now if I'm torn between going out and staying home on a particular night it often comes down to whether the location is smoke free or not, and if it is really worth being suffocating in smoke fumes. I'm trying to vote with my dollars as much as I can.

[Member #3453]

A Mexican drug cartel massacred 72 Central and South American migrants within 100 miles of the USA border on Tuesday. The marines fought the cartel gunmen at a ranch in the northern state of Tamaulipas on Tuesday. The battle left one marine and three suspects dead. They found the bodies of 58 men and 14 women in a room murdered by members of the Zetas drug gang.

Lessons learned to minimize your risk when mongering in Mexico.

1. Do not look for work as a migrant.

2. Do not leave the safety of large population centers when in Mexico.

3. Do not travel over land if you have the means to fly.

[Chester Boy]

A Mexican drug cartel massacred 72 Central and South American migrants within 100 miles of the USA border on Tuesday. The marines fought the cartel gunmen at a ranch in the northern state of Tamaulipas on Tuesday. The battle left one marine and three suspects dead. They found the bodies of 58 men and 14 women in a room murdered by members of the Zetas drug gang.

Lessons learned to minimize your risk when mongering in Mexico.

1. Do not look for work as a migrant.

2. Do not leave the safety of large population centers when in Mexico.

3. Do not travel over land if you have the means to fly.Lies and BS. Monterreydude and I know the truth. This little incident was blown way out of proportion. It was actually a small traffic accident.

What's your agenda, La Parca?

All is safe in Monterrey. Bring cash. Meet with Monterreydude. Go to Infinito and ONLY Infinito. Zero chance of violence.

[Member #3453]

PM me next time you around LaParca.
Seems you missed Poisson. Your spending budget will be good at this club.Too cheap to join the forum. No access to the PM system. But, thanks for the heads up. I'll check out Poisson next time. I heard it was too expensive so I blew it off.

San Luis Potosi was the pits. When I compare Monterrey to some of these other towns in Mexico, with the exception of maybe Tijuana, I am much more appreciative of what I found in Monterrey. Azul, Pasarelas, Infinito, Cielo, Beybes, etc. They were all good in their own unique way. I just scratched the surface. There are hundreds spread all over Monterrey, but I never had the time to peak in the door. Monterrey needs a lot more research!

Monterrey reminds me of Colombia right now in the sense that in Colombia, if you stick to the major population centers you'll be fine. But, if you venture to the outskirts, or into the country, the risks go up.

[Member #3453]

What's your agenda, La Parca?Don't get it. What agenda? Well, finding pussy is my agenda, but I thought that was everybody's agenda!

You mean the report on the migrants being killed? I just saw it on the wire and it struck me as being so similar to Colombia. It's all over the wire.

For years there was huge dangers in Colombia, still is. But, only if you venture into the country or isolate yourself from the population centers.

There's a big difference between crime and what's going on in Mexico now. For example, the Palacio de Hierro incident someone mentioned was an act of crime, like what I found in Rio. Crime is very different than rebel paramilitary activity like what I find in Colombia.

Both require a different "agenda" to stay safe. Cheers.

[Chester Boy]

I believe that you are not try to be serious and only to be funny. I report to you that this week they kidnap with guns 6 people in San Pedro very close to the Palacio de Hierro. I read someone here try to compare Monterrey to Chicago. This is false and anyone here with experience know that it is very dangeros. Someone come here for short time with no friends or companions may believe it is safe but those here on daily basis know that its dangeros. I know direct or indirect five persons who have been robbed or kidnap here. Three where in hospitol. Please be safe and dont be dumb. There´s a war going on here.Nope, never happens. There is ZERO chance of finding any crime in Monterrey. It's all way overblown.

The resident experts on this board, Monterreydude and Unspongebob, have about 90% of all the posts in the Monterrey thread and they say that all is completely safe and that Chicago is more dangerous than Monterrey. I used to doubt them, but I've come around and completely believe them and what they think about members here who spread BS stories:

El Cazador and La Parca have never even been to Monterrey. It's all an agenda on their part to discredit Monterrey and El Infinito. Look how few posts they have! They CAN'T be telling the truth. I stand firmly behind Monterreydude in his effort to weed these impostors out of the ISG.

[Member #3453]

Comparing Chicago to Monterrey isn't really a fair comparison. Chicago has 10 million people and Monterrey has under 5 million. The rate of violent crime in Chicago is double compared to New York City and Los Angeles. Chicago is considered the most violent and dangerous city in the US.

But, it goes way beyond just crime in Mexico. We're seeing a form of anarchy in Mexico these days. But, in all fairness, it's primarily directed between two drug cartels. Getting caught in the cross-fire between the army/policia and the drug cartels, that's your biggest concern.

[Marius 67]

I was in Miguel Aleman, Mexico today. The buses are still not running to Monterrey. Talked to a local soldier and Mexican federal officer. They stated that Mexico is entering a new era of terror. They talked about the Mexican government hiding bigger mass graves they have discoved to prevent mass panic. In all fairness this is all hersay,. But I tend to believe people that are in the shit everyday. Chaos is Mexico right now. They also did not report when these assholes attacked the mexican side of the international bridge which left four soldiers and six officers dead in Camargo. There's a shitload of youtube videos documenting the aftermath of gun battles. I guess the good times in Mexico are coming to an end.

www.borderlandbeat.com and or www.blogdelnarco.com

[MonterreyDude]

Sad thing but true.
Well, things could change a lot if the US stops it hunger for drugs.
You know, the US is the #1 consumer of drugs in the world and it has done nothing to curb consumption nor consumers... nor traffic as a matter of fact.

You know why the cartels are fighting till there last men for cities like Cd. Juarez and Miguel Alemán and Reynosa in Tamaulipas???
Cause the other side, meaning the US side is the point of entry for the drug trade.
It is well know fact that drug cartels pay 100's of thousands of pesos this side of the river vs. 100's of thousands of dollars to corrupt American officials.




I was in Miguel Aleman, Mexico today. The buses are still not running to Monterrey. Talked to a local soldier and Mexican federal officer. They stated that Mexico is entering a new era of terror. They talked about the Mexican government hiding bigger mass graves they have discoved to prevent mass panic. In all fairness this is all hersay,. But I tend to believe people that are in the shit everyday. Chaos is Mexico right now. They also did not report when these assholes attacked the mexican side of the international bridge which left four soldiers and six officers dead in Camargo. There's a shitload of youtube videos documenting the aftermath of gun battles. I guess the good times in Mexico are coming to an end.

www.borderlandbeat.com and or www.blogdelnarco.com

[Member #3453]

What? Spend $3,000 to fly to Thailand? Just South of Pattaya, you have bands of terrorists setting off bombs? Or, go to Bangkok where you have the makings of a civil war?

What? Fly to Bogota, where you have the exact same level of danger from armed bands of robbers, and several paramilitary anti-government units operating between the cities so that land travel is totally prohibitive?

What? Go to Indonesia where bombs from terrorists go off right in front of my hotel?

What? You're going to spend a minimum of $300-500 per hour for equal quality in US?

What? You're going to spend the astronomical cost of flying around the World with Mexico right on your doorstep?

In one breath, my Mexican friends tell me of the dangers, and in the other they tell me they're going about their lives just as they always have.

I'm hearing only that we should all just stay home in the US, or be slaughtered like cattle if we come to Monterrey. That isn't true either. Know the risks, and make your own decision.

[Bbond]

Sad thing but true.
Well, things could change a lot if the US stops it hunger for drugs.
You know, the US is the #1 consumer of drugs in the world and it has done nothing to curb consumption nor consumers... nor traffic as a matter of fact.


Curbing drug and/or alcohol use just isn't going to happen, no way. If Mexico stopped supplying drugs tomorrow, others would just pick up the slack, way too much money involved. Plus there are a number of home made drugs, Meth, PCP, etc, that are consumed. There isn't a state or municipality that has not seen a Meth lab busted. Stopping drug use, stopping prostitution, no way, you can't stop what people want.

[Member #3453]

What makes Mexico the pits in some ways also makes it a Jewel in others. If it were the US, you would have girls costing you a fortune, the cops throwing you in jail, crack hags instead of hot 18 year old girls, and you would be sitting home jacking off. It would be nice if the safety issues improved, but that ain't likely soon. I'll take my chances. Watch your back, and pay attention, just like every other mongering destination in the world.

[The Eminent Duke]

What? Spend $3,000 to fly to Thailand? Just South of Pattaya, you have bands of terrorists setting off bombs? Or, go to Bangkok where you have the makings of a civil war?

What? Fly to Bogota, where you have the exact same level of danger from armed bands of robbers, and several paramilitary anti-government units operating between the cities so that land travel is totally prohibitive?

What? Go to Indonesia where bombs from terrorists go off right in front of my hotel?

What? You're going to spend a minimum of $300-500 per hour for equal quality in US?

What? You're going to spend the astronomical cost of flying around the World with Mexico right on your doorstep?

In one breath, my Mexican friends tell me of the dangers, and in the other they tell me they're going about their lives just as they always have.

I'm hearing only that we should all just stay home in the US, or be slaughtered like cattle if we come to Monterrey. That isn't true either. Know the risks, and make your own decision.Very sensible. If only this could be a conclusion and this forum could go back to being about mongering. I am planning for another trip and all I get from this forum now is safety mandates.

[MonterreyDude]

I think you need to reread what you are writing CB.
You're losing track.

Chicago... let me add Flint, Detroit, Washington DC and just recently included, the Bronx where people are not going out in the streets at night.... again, like in the old days.




LOL. I'm not sore. If you had any credibility, I might take the things you say more seriously. It's obvious that you have a very, very superficial concept of Americans and the US. Ranging from your crazy assertion that Chicago is as dangerous as Monterrey and, now, that the guerrilla warfare being conducted throughout Mexico is on a par with some rednecks in the backwoods. And, best of all, you use the example of Oklahoma City to prove your point, one incident that happened 15 years ago when you are in stark denial of the reality of Mexico's problems despite daily reports of car bombings, grenade attacks and gun battles in broad daylight. Man, I have to admit that I gave you way too much credit. You're actually not that bright at all. LOL. The US has it worse than Mexico? LOL. You may know the Star Spangled Banner, but you are clueless about us Americans and about what the reality is. "You got it WORSE! " LOL. Monterreydude, that literally made me spit out my atole. Thanks for the laugh.

So, tell me. What are you hiding? Why the denials? Why the deflections? You love telling lies about me, like that I don't live here in Monterrey. But what's YOUR deal? You sure seem soft on the narcos and almost protective of their image. Maybe there's a reason behind this? Care to elaborate or would you just like to go back to your deflections and pompous dismissals?

[Chester Boy]

I think you need to reread what you are writing CB.
You're losing track.

Chicago... let me add Flint, Detroit, Washington DC and just recently included, the Bronx where people are not going out in the streets at night.... again, like in the old days.All you seem to know how to do is deflect. And you deflect with the most ridiculous things.

The drug related murders, alone, are about double the TOTAL number of murders in Chicago this year. And this is considering the fact that Chicago has more than double the metro population. The overall murder rate in Mexico is nearly triple the number of the United States. Factor in kidnappings, beheadings, grenade attacks, car bombings, rampant assassinations. Throw in completely ineffectual and corrupt law enforcement and you have the recipe for chaos.

To compare Monterrey with any US city is just plain retarded.comparing street gangs and hillbilly militia members to the guerrilla tactics going down here is beyond ridiculous and nobody with real knowledge is buying your BS.

There is not a single person living here in Monterrey who will deny the dangers, why are you doing so?

You may know you're stuff around the clubs, but something stinks about all this denial. So, again, I will ask:

What are you hiding? Why the denials? Why the deflections? You love telling lies about me, like that I don't live here in Monterrey. But what's YOUR deal? You sure seem soft on the narcos and almost protective of their image. Maybe there's a reason behind this? Care to elaborate or would you just like to go back to your deflections and pompous dismissals?

[Member #3453]

What I've read here the last few weeks, is nothing more than a bash Mexico/US hate fest, and now it's a bash the wealthy class, class envy thing.

If some had to comment on their knowledge of mongering, their posts would be non-existent.

You'all are talking about everybody else having some hidden agenda. I see nothing more than a bash the other guy agenda for weeks on end, and no information from some about the subject at hand.

There seems to be only a couple of you you that actually knows anything about mongering in Monterrey and posts anything on topic.

I just had to chime in. Don't mean to offend anyone, but it's getting pretty dumb. Anybody else on here feelin' the same way?

[El Cabron 007]

I think you need to reread what you are writing CB.
You're losing track.

Chicago... let me add Flint, Detroit, Washington DC and just recently included, the Bronx where people are not going out in the streets at night.... again, like in the old days.

Let me tell you guys. I roamed with the bad boys. I mean dudes you do not even see on TV. I watched 'you know what' go down. I watch ..ah heck .. you won't even understand because you can not relate.

But that was only in Baltimore, Maryland, yes, USA.

In Monterrey, I owned the city. I had body guards on the look out while I did my sh8. MTY Dude told me that someday the girls will wait for me around the corner and take me out.

Still, Monterrey was, until recently, the safest city in MX. I was not aware of the recent changes. I was discussing, with the Reynosa wife, how Reynosa was scary and she said I should see Monterrey. I searched Al Gore's internet and I am saddened to see such a beautiful city go down like this. Such a shame.

The US may not be as scary as MX only because the bad boys here are living the good life instead of fighting the force. They do not have the arm-like pawns nor do they want to live like "Lord of War".

While in MX, they have billions riding on their drug industry and are stronger than the local army. They are forcing the arm of the law here. If you recall, they relaxed the weed and snow law to almost 'legal' and are now thinking of completely legalizing the green and white all together admitting that too many lives have been lost fighting a never ending battle and an easy to breach election card.

So here's the deal. We, the US, are legalizing weed. The only thing is, our 'smart' government could not just come out and say weed is now legal. They started by inventing the medicinal use first where dispensaries started popping up all over the country. Now they slipped in a state wide vote to completely legalize it. Watch Philip Morris trade mark all the strain names and search how much land they have acquired to plant their green. The authorities here are cracking down on growers while corporations are gearing up to monopolize the market.

What the heck was my point? Oh yes, money talks, it says ‘bye bye’ … No, that’s not it.

Drugs are ruling and America, the US, is consuming. Yeah, that’s it.


El Cabron.

Hey guys. Long time. I was thinking of coming to visit but nope. too scary. I'll wait until the cartels declare victory.

[Strike 69]

El Cabron.

Hey guys. Long time. I was thinking of coming to visit but nope. too scary. I'll wait until the cartels declare victory.


Or you can wait until Calderon (one of the worst presidents Mexico has had in recent modern history) finish his term .. that is if he doesn't provoke the second Mexican revolution first.

[El Cabron 007]

Or you can wait until Calderon (one of the worst presidents Mexico has had in recent modern history) finish his term .. that is if he doesn't provoke the second Mexican revolution first.

You know? Think of this world as a big private institute. An institute lead by a couple of inhumane assholes with the lowest regard for life and a colossal hunger for money and power. This is the international federation.

Now think of each country leader as puppet installed to manager that branch on the federation. That’s what we call “Mr. President”

The game then becomes clear. Our most inelegant kindest ever sweetest passionate leader, Dubay said it best “You are either with us, or against us.”

For your listening pleasure: Did you miss me yet? http://www.dubyaspeak.com/

Don’t be so hard on Calderon. He has to play the game. The game of … I am your president, bow to me while I screw you.

Long gone are the days when we were told: “We are a nation with a government. Not a government with a nation.” Aren’t we supposed to “elect” officials to represent us? Why are the screwing us? Don’t they have their own b8ches to screw?

El Cabron

[El Cabron 007]

Despite the zero help I got from the board experts, I've decided to come on down to Monterrey to live out my swinging fantasy with some of the girls at Infinito. What I'm still figuring out is whether I should plan it with the hubby or just show up to surprise him.

I hope my hubby doesn't find out that I'm paying for my trip with the money I got from selling two of his favorite guns! HaHa.

Much more to come.

Kathleen, last I know, Infinito No permita las mujeres. No women allowed and there is nothing you can do about it .... unless I come with you that is ;-)

But seriously. they do now allow women. When asked why, they say it is for the simplt reason that the pervert customers grab anything that moves.

Unless things changed ...

[El Cabron 007]

Kathleen, last I know, Infinito No permita las mujeres. No women allowed and there is nothing you can do about it .... unless I come with you that is ;-)

But seriously. they do now allow women. When asked why, they say it is for the simplt reason that the pervert customers grab anything that moves.

Unless things changed ...

Correction .. they do NOT allow women.

[MonterreyDude]

They still don't and they will not.
Change managers. Our old friend is working now the night shift at El Cielo.
The new one is... not likeable.



Correction .. they do NOT allow women.

[Member #3453]

Correction .. they do NOT allow women.

No worry El Cabron 007...she's a he...he can visit El Infinito and not worry about it. Besides, all that he posts about Monterrey, and about "me," is bogus bullshit. So, no matter what he makes up to post, there are never any real details, which even further reveals he is not knowledgeable about Monterrey, or about me. He certainly doesn't know anything about El Infinito or he would have known that simple fact you so eloquently pointed out El Cabron...WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED.

Here is what has been going on everyone...The poster that likes masquerading as a female believes he knows "ME." He believes he can fuck me in the forum by posting with screen names that he believes relate to my true identity.

At first, I was concerned that he was posting the name I've always used as an alias in Monterrey, and frankly, all over the world. After all, I've been meeting people in Monterrey, and in other venues, using my alias for years. I remember when I first used the screen name...I just picked the name from the past. Then, I just stuck with it. It was easy to remember.

I never actually dreamed that my alias would ever be revealed in the forum. Frankly, I always used my alias because I feared the girls, and what they might try. I always expected it of the girls. I am, frankly, shocked that a fellow monger would stoop so low. I guess I shouldn't be surprised...

But, the reality is, what's in a name, verdad? That's the purpose of an alias. When you've been at this as long as I have, you learn to take precautions. But, that isn't how my stalker got the name of the alias. He got the name of the alias directly from me via internet correspondence, and he has spread it around to a very few number of our other detractors, most of which do not respect the opinions of others, and just can't behave with any proper cyber etiquette.

He wouldn't know me if I walked up behind him and tapped him on the shoulder, or worse. The poster that likes masquerading as a women in the forum, using names that relate to my alias, etc...lets just say he is inextricably linked now to what is going on in the life of my alias by his own hand. Lets just say suspicion upon the actual perpetrators has been diverted, and the more our Mastermind involves himself with the evidence, the deeper he implicates himself in life's consequences outside this forum.

But, he has caused me to change my alias. I have now adopted a new alias, mostly because I don't want to be inextricably linked to a real person whose real life might cost me my own freedom through association.

I've stayed silent long enough. He thinks he's some kind of "Mastermind." But, were I him, I would think twice about linking myself to a real person I know nothing about. Notice, I said "person,' and not "name." What's in a name?

I know my nemesis' name, I know his personal details, I know who he freelances with, I know his legitimate cyberlife, I know his profession...I don't desire to "spar" with him in the "ring," or react to his taunting. That's why I have ignored him up to now.

Enough said, back to the purpose of the forum, and lets stop the nonsense, trying to fuck each other just because our egos can't tolerate the opinions of others, or their contribution within this forum.

[Member #3453]

They still don't and they will not.
Change managers. Our old friend is working now the night shift at El Cielo.
The new one is... not likeable.

I know...every time I see our old friend, exiled to El Cielo, I can read the sadness in his face over his having to endure the reality of his demotion. He is constantly trying to find me girls in El Cielo, which ain't easy at times, because El Cielo ain't no El Infinito. His available inventory for referral is virtually non-existent at El Cielo compared to El Infinito. I try throwing him a bone once in a while, but las propinas are not what they once were for him.

[Member #3453]

And, there's another thing that needs saying...

A number of months ago, some members of the forum focused upon the dangers that they believed existed to those visiting El Infinito in particular, and Monterrey in general.

At that time, their focus upon warning about the dangers seemed to me to be just too much, over the top. After all, we were hearing stories relayed by the girls that were bogus, etc...things we knew were not true. And most of the warnings we read here were conjecture, and not based upon any direct experience within the bar scene.

At that time, I believe they were engaged in an exaggeration of the facts on the ground with respect to danger level. I still believe to this day that those posters have very little, if any, real experience in Monterrey, or El Infinito. I believe that their warnings were informed conjecture based upon their own circumstances in areas where I believe they frequent, which I believe is probably a venue closer to the border, where the danger level was, and is, more intense, even now. In the months since their warnings, the exposure to an increased danger level has migrated to a frequency in Monterrey that is still less than what is occurring in the border towns.

But, I am prepared at this time to offer them an apology...

While I don't believe the dangers were nearly as high at the time they offered their warnings as they are now, I do believe that over the course of about 6 months, the levels have certainly increased to a point where there are significantly increased incidents that warrant being much more cautious here.

Am I prepared to tell people to stay away from Monterrey? No, I do not think that your being akin to a "grain of sand on the beach" with respect to your being lost among the millions of people here offers the likelihood that you will personally endure any harm were you to visit Monterrey, provided you watch your back.

Personally, I do not believe the risk is as high in attending El Infinito as it is just being in some of the neighborhoods of Monterrey, or on the roadways between say the border and several miles outside the city, or in El Oxxo in Apodaca at night, etc...

With regard to a comparison between Chicago and Monterrey, at this juncture I believe there really is no valid comparison between the two. But, at the time that comparison was made, the danger level in Monterrey was not nearly what it is today. Besides, believe me, parts of Chicago are certainly every bit more dangerous as El Centro Monterrey, where you would be spending most of your time if attending the bars. But, that doesn't mean you should drop your guard while visiting Monterrey, and/or El Centro, or Chicago for that matter.

With regard to El Infinito, it receives recommendations because it is the undisputed crown jewel of the bars in Monterrey...that is, it displays a surprisingly high level of quality of selection for the money. It is not recommended for comfort, or ambiance. But, naturally, for it's superior quality of selection alone, it's going to be the subject of commentary. That's the legitimate reason why you see it referred to here, not because anyone has a particular desire to promote it for personal gain.

Were we hearing recommendations here for Amnesia or one of the high end clubs, then I would be more suspicious. They pay money for referrals and recommendations. ie: tipping taxis, etc...So, were I to hear a concentrated effort here to promote them, I would be suspicious. But, El Infinito does NOT need any recommendations...It is packed night and day with patrons. Besides, it's low end, and the price does not justify the promotional costs that would be associated with there being some concerted effort to pay off people to recommend it.

So, why is it the subject of conversations....Because, when asked, to omit El Infinito in a recommendation would be negligent. So, in my commenting about it now, my purpose is simply to reveal my own opinion that I do not see an environment there that makes an increase in danger level any more evident on the surface than I saw there 6 months ago, or 3 years ago for that matter.

But, admittedly, the dangers can be underlying the surface, and for that reason, I echo that when visiting there, or any of the bars, I would do so with a greater degree of awareness than perhaps was necessary even only 6 months ago.

I would recommend that you not linger in El Infinito, but do your business and cut more quickly to the chase than you might have in the past. That has always been my own preference anyway. I don't linger in El Infinito. I have for many years always just flown through there, in and out, wham bam...and now, with the escalated violence in Monterrey, I believe it's also a part of watching your own back, part of being that grain of sand on the beach.

[Member #3453]

I don't know, but I'm sure you'll make something up...you always do...you certainly don't know shit about Monterrey or El Infinito.

And with the regard to the Captain1201 screen name, and your use of it to masquerade as Chesterboy, lets clarify that, if for no other reason than to at least let Chesterboy know that you're also fucking with him, and who knows whom else within this forum.

See, guys, I told you the forum was full of bullshitters and trolls. And, Chesterboy, I owe you an apology, assuming you are not also our Mastermind in disguise, but I don't think so. I believe you are a legit poster Chesterboy.

Chesterboy, our Mastermind decided to do an internet search based on the name of my alias. He found that my alias has a screen name on another unrelated website, Captain1201. He used it to masquerade as you, but he made a very amateurish mistake, commenting as you with statements that did not correlate with your prior statements. Some did not really catch on, and neither did I at first...they/we believed you had made in error in your comments, but our Mastermind was just wanting to mess with our forum.

You see, he has this psychotic ego, and when he goes off his meds he can not tolerate that some of us have comments we enjoy posting here, and he can not tolerate a difference of opinion, even if it's made with decorum and politeness. He can not tolerate that we do know our shit. He knows his shit in his section, and he thinks he know his shit on his other websites.

But, NO, he must be in control. Part of that stems from the narcisism that is inherent with some people that are in his same profession, and part of it has to do with his being " very active" in a few other quasi legitimate, but relatively insignificant websites.

What our Mastermind does not know is you are closer to being accurate with your hunches concerning the drug cartels than you may have thought, only different. Well, not really totally accurate, but close. You see, my alias is well known in my community. He is some kind of Federal Agent or something, and he travels to Mexico regularly. I don't know the particulars, but I can only assume he travels on official business...he undoubtedly has ties to the drug cartels, but not the type you suspected, but ties none the less. So, you were lunging into a measure of the truth with respect to my alias anyway.

Hey, Mr. Mastermind Stalker, this game is really FUN, FUN, FUN...maybe I should visit you at your websites, using my alias, maybe make a few more of them up myself like you have, maybe publish the links here so all our members can enjoy your commentary over there, and maybe we can all offer a contrary opinion to your drivel over there. Wouldn't that be fun!!! :-)))))))

You know, Mr. Mastermind Stalker, I was going to just ignore you, but it is kind of fun to fuck with you now. I may still grow bored with your amateurish assumptions, and your unethical behavior. It does kind of [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off that you are such a slug that you would try to out me in the forum, even if it doesn't really effect me. But, it could REALLY, REALLY effect you. I'm sure my alias has some close personal ties to some really nice Mexican Drug Agents himself. Maybe I'll drop a dime, and let Randy know just exactly who is posting his wife's name in the forum. :-))) Wouldn't that be interesting???

[Member #3453]

I heard kind of funny thing today...There is a new club located on Madero, just a little bit further down from Harem. The new club has been named "El Infi."

As some are aware, that is a commonly known term of endearment to describe the club "El Infinito." Apparently, the owners of "El Infi" are hoping to capitalize on the name through association. But, to my knowledge, there is no association, other than both clubs market to the working classes.

See, imitation is the best form of flattery. Were El Infinito of no consequence in the Monterrey venue, who would care to name a club after it's nickname so they could capitalize on it's fame and fortune, hoping to pick up the scraps left over from the big dog?

Anybody visited "El Infi" yet?

[Marius 67]

By far this has been the most disappointing visit to Monterrey; the city seems dead. No one seems to go out anymore at night. The worst part is that I encountered a tranny in the privado at Infinito. I can tell trannys apart but was fooled by the low light and the small number of women at infinito. I am not saying this for you guys to go to other strip bars. Infinito is still good but keep an open eye, to avoid the tranny surprise. Seems that my girlfriend at infinito moved back to her rancho in Sinaloa. Also taxi's were saying that they might impose a curfew on the city, which i think is impossible, but who knows with mexico going down to the Shi%*er recently. Saw some dead burned bodies during the road trip to Monterrey in Cuidad Meir. Please mongers don't venture away from the city.

Stay safe everyone.

[Member #3453]

HAHAHAH, that's rich! :-))))))))))

One thing I can tell you, if there was a tranny working in El Infinito, there would be nothing short of a riot in the privados.

And, I doubt She/He would even make it into the privados. The girls would rip her/him limb to limb. Competition is fierce in El Infinito.

Tell you what I'll do Mr. "Mastermind," I will personally visit El Infinito tonight to confirm your report. I'll even reveal the name of the supposed Tranny here so we all don't fall into the abis.

Yeah right, stay safe everybody! :-)))



By far this has been the most disappointing visit to Monterrey; the city seems dead. No one seems to go out anymore at night. The worst part is that I encountered a tranny in the privado at Infinito. I can tell trannys apart but was fooled by the low light and the small number of women at infinito. I am not saying this for you guys to go to other strip bars. Infinito is still good but keep an open eye, to avoid the tranny surprise. Seems that my girlfriend at infinito moved back to her rancho in Sinaloa. Also taxi's were saying that they might impose a curfew on the city, which i think is impossible, but who knows with mexico going down to the Shi%*er recently. Saw some dead burned bodies during the road trip to Monterrey in Cuidad Meir. Please mongers don't venture away from the city.

Stay safe everyone.

[MonterreyDude]

Trannies working at Infinito?

Pure and unadulterated BS.

1. Marius, how in the world can a tranny slip in to work at Infinito if the girls have to strip buck naked on stage???

2. You think the strippers are like kind of stupid, low IQ humanoid beings??? You think they wouldn't have noticed at their dressing room that one of the "girls" has a stick shift??? You think they are stupid enough to let it pass so it would affect business???

3. You encountered a tranny... in what way??? You said hello, or what???

4. We Mexicans are openly homophobic, we are not bound by stupid laws that force us to respect gays above heterosexuals. If there were trannies working on strip clubs... they would be beaten as close to dead as possible by the customers... and the police would do nothing at all.

5. Trannies have there own "free for all" SCs if you want to check them out: Muxets and Papi Chulo on Zaragoza street.

5. Marius, you are trying to impose on Infinito an urban legend that goes around on ALL strip clubs "there's a trannie working undercover"... not new, read that, heard that, all equal to total BS.

And....
Impose a curfew on Monterrey... oh come on Marius!!!
If they haven't imposed it on Juarez where violence and death is as common as meat and potatoes, they are not going to impose it on Monterrey.






By far this has been the most disappointing visit to Monterrey; the city seems dead. No one seems to go out anymore at night. The worst part is that I encountered a tranny in the privado at Infinito. I can tell trannys apart but was fooled by the low light and the small number of women at infinito. I am not saying this for you guys to go to other strip bars. Infinito is still good but keep an open eye, to avoid the tranny surprise. Seems that my girlfriend at infinito moved back to her rancho in Sinaloa. Also taxi's were saying that they might impose a curfew on the city, which i think is impossible, but who knows with mexico going down to the Shi%*er recently. Saw some dead burned bodies during the road trip to Monterrey in Cuidad Meir. Please mongers don't venture away from the city.

Stay safe everyone.

[Member #3453]

I take it back, calling Marius our "Mastermind." Our Mastermind knows Mexican society. He lives in Mexico. He knows what Mexican males would do to a tranny in El Infinito. So, I hereby retract my accusation. He would never have said such a thing with his level of experience...

It occurs to me that Marius may have seen the openly gay waiter, the really fat one with the mascara and the makeup, the died blonde hair. I don't remember his name, but he's a fixture at El Infinito. But, you can't mistake him for anything other than an effeminant male waiter, wearing the waiters uniform, name tag, etc...Maybe they promoted him to dancer... :-)))) yeah, right!

The clubs are full of gay male waiters. In that respect, there seems to be tolerance. But a tranny masquerading as a female, that will get you killed in a straight club in Mexico.

Interestingly, there are some straight clubs that are managed by gay managers in Monterrey. The owners figure they'll keep their mitts off the girls I guess.


Trannies working at Infinito?

Pure and unadulterated BS.

1. Marius, how in the world can a tranny slip in to work at Infinito if the girls have to strip buck naked on stage???

2. You think the strippers are like kind of stupid, low IQ humanoid beings??? You think they wouldn't have noticed at their dressing room that one of the "girls" has a stick shift??? You think they are stupid enough to let it pass so it would affect business???

3. You encountered a tranny... in what way??? You said hello, or what???

4. We Mexicans are openly homophobic, we are not bound by stupid laws that force us to respect gays above heterosexuals. If there were trannies working on strip clubs... they would be beaten as close to dead as possible by the customers... and the police would do nothing at all.

5. Trannies have there own "free for all" SCs if you want to check them out: Muxets and Papi Chulo on Zaragoza street.

5. Marius, you are trying to impose on Infinito an urban legend that goes around on ALL strip clubs "there's a trannie working undercover"... not new, read that, heard that, all equal to total BS.

And....
Impose a curfew on Monterrey... oh come on Marius!!!
If they haven't imposed it on Juarez where violence and death is as common as meat and potatoes, they are not going to impose it on Monterrey.

[MonterreyDude]

This is strange indeed: "Saw some dead burned bodies during the road trip to Monterrey in Cuidad Meir."

Many posts ago you told us there was no bus service between Ciudad Mier and Monterrey and as a matter of fact there is still none cause that part of the state of Tamaulipas is extremely dangerous to drive through.

Either you are making up that part of the story, or you are braver than we thought driving your own car in such a god-forgiven place.




By far this has been the most disappointing visit to Monterrey; the city seems dead. No one seems to go out anymore at night. The worst part is that I encountered a tranny in the privado at Infinito. I can tell trannys apart but was fooled by the low light and the small number of women at infinito. I am not saying this for you guys to go to other strip bars. Infinito is still good but keep an open eye, to avoid the tranny surprise. Seems that my girlfriend at infinito moved back to her rancho in Sinaloa. Also taxi's were saying that they might impose a curfew on the city, which i think is impossible, but who knows with mexico going down to the Shi%*er recently. Saw some dead burned bodies during the road trip to Monterrey in Cuidad Meir. Please mongers don't venture away from the city.

Stay safe everyone.

[MonterreyDude]

El Cazador says: "El Norte newspaper recently show facts that in 2007 there was 2300 murders in Monterrey and its areas and we are now going to have more than 13000 murders for 2010."

2300??? 13000 for 2010???
I think you are adding a few more zeros than you are supposed to???



I read you continue to talk down the dangers that occuring in Monterrey right now. No one here think that way and thats why I dont think you live here or have many friends in Monterrey. Three weeks ago, five innocent youths was shot and killed in Monterreys largest mall. That same week, two men was shot and killed right outside Tequila Azul mens club after leaving the club. A policewoman was shot and killed last night. Dead bodies sometimes without heads are routinely dropped on the highway from Monterrey to Laredo. El Norte newspaper recently show facts that in 2007 there was 2300 murders in Monterrey and its areas and we are now going to have more than 13000 murders for 2010. And many crimes and murders not reported by the police or media because is bad for politically and for business her.

You guys want to come here be safe and dont go to nonpopulated areas downtown late at night. It is dangerous here right now.

[Member #3453]

My parting comments in that prior post were facetious, mostly just a whimsical recommendation that all be “careful” with respect to the trannies that are supposedly terrorizing El Infinito.

Listen, I am not diminishing the terrible horror that persists in Mexico, nor am I uncaring with respect to the individuals or families that have fallen victim to the awful criminals.

Warnings that there is danger are not ill-advised...

But, some directly gain personally from promoting the fear that relates to the mayhem. Therefore, those warnings are not entirely benevolent on their part, nor are they entirely accurate either. Because, promoting the fear benefits them directly. Some of that goes on right here on this website, and to a much greater degree in cyberspace elsewhere by their own hand.

For those that live here day to day, there is really little alternative. I don’t advocate others come to Mexico blindly without first understanding that there may be risks, and mitigating those risks through intelligent, informed security measures themselves. I am more secure living here as a result of my own security measures than some.

But, the average visitor for a few days need not utilize those same tactics to remain safe. Just being a little more aware of your surroundings is all that is necessary to survive a few days in the bars, visiting the massage parlors, or calling upon escorts. You are like a grain of sand on the beach in this city of five million.

I do agree with you with regard to choosing modes of travel, being in "non-populated areas late at night." Where we differ is your stipulation that "downtown" is somehow more dangerous than on the outskirts of the city late at night, or high profile, heavily populated areas of the city.

Downtown is relatively secure in comparison. Fact is, the news reports here are always about something horrible happening in the populated areas of the city, on the outskirts of the city, or in the busy public places around the city. Fact is, the Downtown area rarely makes the news beyond petty crime. So, yes, I do live her, and yes, I am aware of what parts of the city endure the greater likelihood for deadly violence. And, I have never, in all the years here, ever experienced the level of threats you warn about when attending the bars in El Centro. I am not saying it can not happen, but I don't believe El Centro is any more dangerous than anywhere else in the city. Five Million of us have to live here...and it is what it is...so be it.



I read you continue to talk down the dangers that occuring in Monterrey right now. No one here think that way and thats why I dont think you live here or have many friends in Monterrey. Three weeks ago, five innocent youths was shot and killed in Monterreys largest mall. That same week, two men was shot and killed right outside Tequila Azul mens club after leaving the club. A policewoman was shot and killed last night. Dead bodies sometimes without heads are routinely dropped on the highway from Monterrey to Laredo. El Norte newspaper recently show facts that in 2007 there was 2300 murders in Monterrey and its areas and we are now going to have more than 13000 murders for 2010. And many crimes and murders not reported by the police or media because is bad for politically and for business her.

You guys want to come here be safe and dont go to nonpopulated areas downtown late at night. It is dangerous here right now.

[PirateJohn]

This is strange indeed: "Saw some dead burned bodies during the road trip to Monterrey in Cuidad Meir."While I don't want to totally call BS, Cuidad Meir is really off the normal path to Monterrey.

That, and while I wouldn't personally be too concerned about hitting the clubs in Monterrey, that strip of small towns east of Reynosa and along the border to Falcon Lake (C. Guerrero and Ancient Guerrero) is pretty much the stronghold of the Zetas. Those are all small towns, generally don't hold any appeal to anyone here in the first place, and it's not smart to be going into any of them right now.

Monterrey ... eh ... a different matter. Monterrey is pretty peaceful from what we are hearing down here in the Rio Grande Valley.

And Reynosa has actually been pretty peaceful until the last few months.

[PirateJohn]

I was in Miguel Aleman, Mexico today. Honestly, why would you be in Miguel Aleman? It's not on the way to anywhere, and it's a tiny little town with no industry.

And it's a Zeta stronghold. One of maybe 4 towns along the border that EVERYONE knows it isn't smart to be in.


The buses are still not running to Monterrey. They sure are running to Monterrey from Reynosa. There is a company running some brand new double decker over-the-road buses along that route.

And anyone seriously planning to get from Miguel Aleman to Monterrey would logically transfer at either Reynosa or maybe Nuevo Laredo.

[Marius 67]

I was in the privado at infinito, the girl/guy bent over and low and behold a pair of hairy nuts. When I was walking upstairs to the privado a sixth sense hit me that this was a tranny, but I ignored my gut feeling thinking, no way! Also this past Tuesday morning the Mexican Military had sealed off some streets in El Centro de Monterrey, my taxi also passed by the Plaza del Arco Express which is currently used by Mexican federal agents; it was blocked off with agents in full gear ready to go to war at about 11pm. This is not the same Monterrey I've visited in the past. Maybe I need to call Monterreydude next time I venture out there. The Noreste bus line has resumed bus routes from Miguel Aleman to Monterrey. I commented to a taxi about the dead bodies I saw in Cuidad Meir. He told me it was only decorations for Halloween; haha; I can assure everyone here that they were not holloween props! Also seems that they have opened El Pantheron (now under another name) close to infinito. Found a new eating spot too; El Centrika it's a mall with a walmart and a food court; Gorditas dona Tota is the best of all in the food court. The girl I finally picked for a salidad at Infinito gave me some sad ass rushed job back at the hotel. I'am so pist that I might just post her picture; the only good thing about the trip was a late night dinner at the Palax with a MILF escort Monterreydude recommended a while back. Thank You Sir! I still have faith that things will make a turn for the better.

[Blourghus]

Marius had me until "burned bodies". LOL!!!
Circumstances have kept me (physically) away from Monterrey since August but I have been in continuous contact with girlfriend there, I have been considering visiting in the next month or 2. I couldn't care less if the peasant skank population at Infinito includes a tranny, but am concerned about spending my precious time where "the city seems dead. No one seems to go out anymore at night". Hey just like this forum. :-)

Can anyone confirm or deny?
If this is still the case I am thinking about flying her out to a more happening and more neutral location - sorry for taking all the good ones away from you all!!!

[Member #3453]

Nothing has changed...the traffic patterns are as snarled as usual, maybe just a little less traffic slightly earlier at night compared to usual, a little less activity in places like Bario Antiqua, things tapering off just slightly earlier than usual. With respect to the bars, like always, some of them are jam packed, and others of them are dead. But, overall, I haven't noticed much of a difference since your last visit in August.


Marius had me until "burned bodies". LOL!!!
Circumstances have kept me (physically) away from Monterrey since August but I have been in continuous contact with girlfriend there, I have been considering visiting in the next month or 2. I couldn't care less if the peasant skank population at Infinito includes a tranny, but am concerned about spending my precious time where "the city seems dead. No one seems to go out anymore at night". Hey just like this forum. :-)

Can anyone confirm or deny?
If this is still the case I am thinking about flying her out to a more happening and more neutral location - sorry for taking all the good ones away from you all!!!

[MonterreyDude]

Blourghus, am still going to Infinito afternoon shift (blond girl with braces sands "hi" to you everytime I see her now).
Am still going at least one night a week to do my club hopping... of course am home at the latest 1 am.

AND no trannies at Infinito. Pure BS.





Marius had me until "burned bodies". LOL!!!
Circumstances have kept me (physically) away from Monterrey since August but I have been in continuous contact with girlfriend there, I have been considering visiting in the next month or 2. I couldn't care less if the peasant skank population at Infinito includes a tranny, but am concerned about spending my precious time where "the city seems dead. No one seems to go out anymore at night". Hey just like this forum. :-)

Can anyone confirm or deny?
If this is still the case I am thinking about flying her out to a more happening and more neutral location - sorry for taking all the good ones away from you all!!!

[Member #3453]

Just because your Infinito girl gave you the bums rush, don't think it's indicative of any decline in Monterrey. Fact is, it happens all the time, and those results are more likely to happen if you are rushed in making your selection.

We all go through it, and I am no less pissed about it when it happens to me. But, when the disappointments come, I've found that there is usually some outstanding encounter just around the corner that renews my ambition.

The idea that Monterrey is somehow slipping has entered my mind so many countless times in the past...and just when you've decided to cross it off the list...BANG...she comes out of nowhere, and all confidence is restored until the next disappointment...which is also inevitable. Just chalk it off to experience, bad karma, whatever, and keep moving forward.

The Federal Police have been staying in Plaza Del Arco Express for months upon months, first at Plaza Del Arco, and now over at Plaze Del Arco Express. It's a little ominous to see them guarding the entrance to the hotel, but under the circumstances, with them bringing the fight to the cartels, and with their having such visibility, it's a smart thing for them to do. I don't recall any incidents of them ever being hit by the cartels there. But, I do NOT dawdle around there either when walking past. THAT is one of those security measures I was talking about.

With regard to the burned bodies...Marius, you are very sensitive to their being a greater potential for disaster these days when you travel to Monterrey, and understandably so. But, I respectfully suggest that perhaps your deeper sensibilities are causing you to jump to conclusions. You may just be reporting on your fears, and not really seeing the reality. Logically, being this time of the month, it's very likely that what you saw was Halloween related.

With respect to the tranny in El Infinito, I am not sure how that may psychologically relate to your fearful premonitions with respect to the cartels, burned bodies, etc...but what you believe you saw in the privados is almost more frightening than the burned bodies.

Perhaps the cartels have found a way to actually terrorize us without firing a shot! :-)))



I was in the privado at infinito, the girl/guy bent over and low and behold a pair of hairy nuts. When I was walking upstairs to the privado a sixth sense hit me that this was a tranny, but I ignored my gut feeling thinking, no way! Also this past Tuesday morning the Mexican Military had sealed off some streets in El Centro de Monterrey, my taxi also passed by the Plaza del Arco Express which is currently used by Mexican federal agents; it was blocked off with agents in full gear ready to go to war at about 11pm. This is not the same Monterrey I've visited in the past. Maybe I need to call Monterreydude next time I venture out there. The Noreste bus line has resumed bus routes from Miguel Aleman to Monterrey. I commented to a taxi about the dead bodies I saw in Cuidad Meir. He told me it was only decorations for Halloween; haha; I can assure everyone here that they were not holloween props! Also seems that they have opened El Pantheron (now under another name) close to infinito. Found a new eating spot too; El Centrika it's a mall with a walmart and a food court; Gorditas dona Tota is the best of all in the food court. The girl I finally picked for a salidad at Infinito gave me some sad ass rushed job back at the hotel. I'am so pist that I might just post her picture; the only good thing about the trip was a late night dinner at the Palax with a MILF escort Monterreydude recommended a while back. Thank You Sir! I still have faith that things will make a turn for the better.

[Blourghus]

We all go through it, and I am no less pissed about it when it happens to me. But, when the disappointments come, I've found that there is usually some outstanding encounter just around the corner that renews my ambition.

The idea that Monterrey is somehow slipping has entered my mind so many countless times in the past...and just when you've decided to cross it off the list...BANG...she comes out of nowhere, and all confidence is restored until the next disappointment...which is also inevitable. Just chalk it off to experience, bad karma, whatever, and keep moving forward.


This is an interesting way to quantify things, but I've met that one in a billion lady who brings it in the most podunk off the track little town, most though I wouldn't really recommend only on that basis, many I wouldn't recommend at all to anybody, because I'm not sure so I'm not sure that finding just one lady means that the whole the city is a commenable mongering destination, with other guys able to repeat your own findings. More luck & the law of averages, if you go to enough places you will meet the perfect lady, doesn't necessarily mean that city is so special.

Other international cities elsewhere I go to regularly seem to be getting better & better, and on each every visit the ladies get prettier, not to mention classier & more sophisticated, and lots more of them, and more of them equipped how I like them, new clubs being built out and opening up, increased safety & security, and more and more ladies. One of my favorite cities which I was in earlier in the month is totally unrecognizable compared to my first trip (or even my most recent visit just last year), due to build out of lots of fancy new high end bars - trends I'm just not seeing in Monterrey or elsewhere in Mexico over the longer term (renovating a bar which was firebombed by drug gangs does not count as new construction). Other international cities have had outstanding 2009-2010 but it has been rough time for Mexico, we can only hope it will catch back up over the longer term.

[MonterreyDude]

I would never dare contradict Blourghus in the sense that he is an incredible international monger, full of experience...
But there are a couple of things of that make him favor a city, country or club:

1. It's not the aspect of the city. Those of us that know you, know that your judgement is biased in favor of girls that wear braces.
So that makes you like "open season" for girls with lots of metal.
ONe thing, I always wondered why there were not that many girls with braces around the clubs here in Monterrey, but I've been asking and getting the same response. Girls have their teeth set by their early teenage years.

2. Blourghus, you are too innocent in one thing: You fall for the girl without measuring consequences. Am surprised you keep asking what goes on in Monterrey when I know that you've been too personal to girls in far more dangerous places such as Nuevo Laredo.
My friend, you have been lucky like hell.

3. You are a bachelor. You have way an adavantage over all us.
That tips the balance in your favor by a mile.
a) you can tell the girl honestly that you have no ties back home. If the girl likes you, she'll fall faster for you if she knows there is no danger dating you, cause there are no lies to deal with, no deceptions, no fear that you are hiding something.
b) you can give the girls your phone number with not strings attached, no conditions. she can call whenever she wants to.
c) you can stay at a place as long as you want to or leave as fast as you like to.
d) you can go anywhere you want to, in public, with any of your novias. The girls can openly say "this gringo is a bachelor and he's all mine" (for the meanwhile)
e) You can become friends with the girls family, totally in an honest way, which tips the balance again in your favor without having the need to lie.
f) again, you are a bachelor, whatever you do, we can only envy.






This is an interesting way to quantify things, but I've met that one in a billion lady who brings it in the most podunk off the track little town, most though I wouldn't really recommend only on that basis, many I wouldn't recommend at all to anybody, because I'm not sure so I'm not sure that finding just one lady means that the whole the city is a commenable mongering destination, with other guys able to repeat your own findings. More luck & the law of averages, if you go to enough places you will meet the perfect lady, doesn't necessarily mean that city is so special.

Other international cities elsewhere I go to regularly seem to be getting better & better, and on each every visit the ladies get prettier, not to mention classier & more sophisticated, and lots more of them, and more of them equipped how I like them, new clubs being built out and opening up, increased safety & security, and more and more ladies. One of my favorite cities which I was in earlier in the month is totally unrecognizable compared to my first trip (or even my most recent visit just last year), due to build out of lots of fancy new high end bars - trends I'm just not seeing in Monterrey or elsewhere in Mexico over the longer term (renovating a bar which was firebombed by drug gangs does not count as new construction). Other international cities have had outstanding 2009-2010 but it has been rough time for Mexico, we can only hope it will catch back up over the longer term.

[Member #3453]

I will go completely out on a limb by saying that my experience has been that the girls that are from the podunk towns, ie: "country girls," in an admittedly unscientific statistical average, turn out to be "nicer" with respect to personality and disposition. They seem more pleasant to spend time with than the sophisticated "floosies" from the Big City.

And, dare I say that girls from that point of reference are also much more impressed with having actually landed a Gringo companion, something they never dreamed they would ever actually achieve. So, perhaps they appreciate us more than the sophisticated "City Slickers" we often encounter.

So, could it be that the "City" itself isn't so much the contributing factor to your satisfaction with your girl from the podunk town, but perhaps it just comes back to that old saying that people from the country are just a little nicer, happier, easier going, and more appreciative of things?

That's what I suspect after having met hundreds upon hundreds of girls, and crunching the unscientific success ratio based upon my own satisfaction/girl's origins. I now believe this so much so, that I am motivated to visit the podunk towns to confirm or deny my hypothesis.

Unfortunately, there is just too little time to do the research in the podunk town environment. Therefore, over the years I've been limited to find the ones in Monterrey that have landed in the "big city," but have small town origins and upbringings.

I am so convinced of this hypothesis now that their "origins" should be an important part of everyone's interviewing process.


This is an interesting way to quantify things, but I've met that one in a billion lady who brings it in the most podunk off the track little town, most though I wouldn't really recommend only on that basis, many I wouldn't recommend at all to anybody, because I'm not sure so I'm not sure that finding just one lady means that the whole the city is a commenable mongering destination, with other guys able to repeat your own findings. More luck & the law of averages, if you go to enough places you will meet the perfect lady, doesn't necessarily mean that city is so special.

Other international cities elsewhere I go to regularly seem to be getting better & better, and on each every visit the ladies get prettier, not to mention classier & more sophisticated, and lots more of them, and more of them equipped how I like them, new clubs being built out and opening up, increased safety & security, and more and more ladies. One of my favorite cities which I was in earlier in the month is totally unrecognizable compared to my first trip (or even my most recent visit just last year), due to build out of lots of fancy new high end bars - trends I'm just not seeing in Monterrey or elsewhere in Mexico over the longer term (renovating a bar which was firebombed by drug gangs does not count as new construction). Other international cities have had outstanding 2009-2010 but it has been rough time for Mexico, we can only hope it will catch back up over the longer term.

[Toasterman78]

Arrived in Monterrey yesterday and have been catching up on all the good information in these forums. So first, thanks!

I don't speak Spanish but have tried looking around to see what MPs are available. Thinking about heading to Marchella 220 on Allende thanks to MonterreyDude!

Is it any good and safe for a non-spanish speaking dude like me? Also, all over its website (http://pompis.com.mx/4606.html) it states 600 so should I assume that's what I should be paying for FS?

Thanks!

[MonterreyDude]

Yes it is Toasterman.

There might be a point to tipping.
If such is the case, make it no more than 200 pesos.

PS: no walking at night!!!! Not that it is dangerous, but that area where Marsella is... it is kinda empty after working hours.




Arrived in Monterrey yesterday and have been catching up on all the good information in these forums. So first, thanks!

I don't speak Spanish but have tried looking around to see what MPs are available. Thinking about heading to Marchella 220 on Allende thanks to MonterreyDude!

Is it any good and safe for a non-spanish speaking dude like me? Also, all over its website (http://pompis.com.mx/4606.html) it states 600 so should I assume that's what I should be paying for FS?

Thanks!

[Eisan]

It has been a few days since your post, Toasterman, so maybe you've already gone, but if not I would say Marcella is a good choice if you don't speak Spanish. I don't speak it but have found the guys who work downstairs to be patient and friendly, and some of the girls there speak good English. 600 should include CBJ, FS, and maybe a few other small things for 40 minutes. I think what is included is posted on the walls of the rooms. (Some girls will try to upsell though.) With a central location and clean rooms, I have found it to be a good place to start in Monterrey. The only thing is the number of girls really varies by time and day. The other MP I have been to is Versace (thanks to Monterreydude), and I liked that, too.

If you did/do go, it would nice to hear what you think of the place.


Arrived in Monterrey yesterday and have been catching up on all the good information in these forums. So first, thanks!

I don't speak Spanish but have tried looking around to see what MPs are available. Thinking about heading to Marchella 220 on Allende thanks to MonterreyDude!

Is it any good and safe for a non-spanish speaking dude like me? Also, all over its website (http://pompis.com.mx/4606.html) it states 600 so should I assume that's what I should be paying for FS?

Thanks!

[Bbond]

Yes it is Toasterman.
PS: no walking at night!!!! Not that it is dangerous,...
All due respect to the M-dude, but,

Not dangerous? Then why no walking afterdark, I mean, if it is not dangerous?

[Member #3453]

I thought that statement seemed counter intuitive too...

But, I have walked these dark areas many times alone, sometimes until 3-4am, and never had even a hint of any danger that an incident might occur.

But, as I am doing it, it always feels a little eerie because it's not well lit. I suppose the recommendation to not walk in such environments just makes good sense, but there aren't incidents you can point to that substantiate there being much danger in actually doing so.

But, with the escalated violence in Mexico these days, not walking in well lit areas is probably the more common kind of advice, just to mitigate the possibility that you will end up being one of the petty crime statistics.

On the other hand, being cloaked in darkness may actually be safer than walking in well lit, busier areas of Monterrey these days. It seems the likelihood that you will fall victim to the escalated violence here has more to do with congregating in busy, well lit, public places, and exposing your own vulnerability.

I don't know...Maybe staying to the shadows is your better strategy. I would rather deal with the petty criminal than the drug cartels in many respects, but preferably neither, hence the warning not to walk much at night whether it's lit, dark, or whatever.

For now, I recommend you take taxis at night, regardless of the environment, and walk less than you might have in the past, not because it is particularly more dangerous with respect to any certain area, lit or unlit, etc...but because Monterrey as a whole is more dangerous than it has ever been, and the "danger" is not specific to any statistical likelihood that one area is going to be more dangerous than another.

Incidents are occurring these days in areas where you would have normally felt perfectly safe in the past, and not occurring in areas where you would have made the logical assumption that they have a greater likelihood of being dangerous.



All due respect to the M-dude, but,

Not dangerous? Then why no walking afterdark, I mean, if it is not dangerous?

[Eisan]

It has been a few days since your post, Toasterman, so maybe you've already gone, but if not I would say Marcella is a good choice if you don't speak Spanish. I don't speak it but have found the guys who work downstairs to be patient and friendly, and some of the girls there speak good English. 600 should include CBJ, FS, and maybe a few other small things for 40 minutes. I think what is included is posted on the walls of the rooms. (Some girls will try to upsell though.) With a central location and clean rooms, I have found it to be a good place to start in Monterrey. The only thing is the number of girls really varies by time and day. The other MP I have been to is Versace (thanks to Monterreydude), and I liked that, too.

If you did/do go, it would nice to hear what you think of the place.


Arrived in Monterrey yesterday and have been catching up on all the good information in these forums. So first, thanks!

I don't speak Spanish but have tried looking around to see what MPs are available. Thinking about heading to Marchella 220 on Allende thanks to MonterreyDude!

Is it any good and safe for a non-spanish speaking dude like me? Also, all over its website (http://pompis.com.mx/4606.html) it states 600 so should I assume that's what I should be paying for FS?

Thanks!

[MonterreyDude]

Bbond, as you can see not even USB has a notion of where that part of the downtown area is.
That part of the city IS the downtown area, but a part of the downtown area that becomes empty after office hours.
It is not part of the club scene and streets, it is right in the middle of the road between the hotel disctrict and the clubs.
It's off by several blocks to the East of Cuahutemoc ave. in a small not well lit street.
Monterrey has all MPs spread all over the map, Marsella is an area not quite favorable to arrive via foot at night, contrary to let's say, Misses, Extravagance where you have to go in taxi cause of the distance.
Walking via foot implies walking 6 blocks from the the Sheraton Ambassador or 16 blocks from Infinito... so you guys that know the city now have a decent reference.

Let me put it this way BB, I have only driven past Marsella in my car a couple of times and for investigative reasons only.
That will give you an idea that the street is not a main or secondary street... just a plain ordinary street that is off the normal vehicular routes.






All due respect to the M-dude, but,

Not dangerous? Then why no walking afterdark, I mean, if it is not dangerous?

[Doubt98]

I've walked to Marsella from the Sheraton in the day time and there is nothing to be worried about. What was implied regarding walking at night, wasn't that it is unsafe, but that we should all take the same precautions we would take in any big city. Which would be don't walk around areas that are desolate, dark, and off the beaten path. Yes, you can hoof all over sections of Monterrey in all hours of the day and night. But, as with any big city, there are areas that would best be avoided. Doesn't make the city unsafe. Plus, if you walk there at night thinking with your little head, after you're done and are walking home in the dark your big head is going to be scared.

[Member #3453]

No...I know exactly where that street is, and it's just as you described it, on a very infrequently traveled side street that is very "lonely," even during the day.

But, the more important point I was making is that the violence that's in Monterrey these days knows no boundaries. The criteria you would normally consider in mitigating your exposure to danger with respect to staying in safe areas, does not apply these days.

It could be just as dangerous in Colonia El Valle as it is in El Centro.

Some have recommended that by NOT attending the bars on Villagran you are ensuring your relative safety??? WRONG!

You are just as likely to be sprayed with machine gun fire entering Liverpool Mall as you would be in El Centro on Villagran.


Bbond, as you can see not even USB has a notion of where that part of the downtown area is.
That part of the city IS the downtown area, but a part of the downtown area that becomes empty after office hours.
It is not part of the club scene and streets, it is right in the middle of the road between the hotel disctrict and the clubs.
It's off by several blocks to the East of Cuahutemoc ave. in a small not well lit street.
Monterrey has all MPs spread all over the map, Marsella is an area not quite favorable to arrive via foot at night, contrary to let's say, Misses, Extravagance where you have to go in taxi cause of the distance.
Walking via foot implies walking 6 blocks from the the Sheraton Ambassador or 16 blocks from Infinito... so you guys that know the city now have a decent reference.

Let me put it this way BB, I have only driven past Marsella in my car a couple of times and for investigative reasons only.
That will give you an idea that the street is not a main or secondary street... just a plain ordinary street that is off the normal vehicular routes.

[Blourghus]

I will go completely out on a limb by saying that my experience has been that the girls that are from the podunk towns, ie: "country girls," in an admittedly unscientific statistical average, turn out to be "nicer" with respect to personality and disposition. They seem more pleasant to spend time with than the sophisticated "floosies" from the Big City.

And, dare I say that girls from that point of reference are also much more impressed with having actually landed a Gringo companion, something they never dreamed they would ever actually achieve. So, perhaps they appreciate us more than the sophisticated "City Slickers" we often encounter.


Actually my type is the light-skinned urban sophisticate spoiled iHooker jet-setting type, the ones I had in mind were big city ladies who happened to be working in podunk towns, maybe on a circuit or similar. In towns were 99/100 ladies are shipped in from the rice paddies, the 1 who grew up in a house with indoor plumbing stands out from a mile away. I have been with the true country ladies before, but usually only ST, they rarely work out into repeats. Have one from about a month ago who had a 2010 Honda Civic, every premium device from the Apple store, (and 2~3 comparably equipped sisters) but still was charging only 4000 THB for LT and was just a blast to hang out with.

I have never personally experienced the "gringo curiosity factor".
Maybe a handful of times in real backwater places a lady will ask what my country is like or something but nothing more. In Monterrey, in certain bars I have gotten with ladies who I am certain have never been with a gringo before, it can be a charming experience, but rarely is a knock out of the park for me. The more experienced ones (who have been with many different cultures, ages, styles, etc..) tend to be a lot more open minded about differing expectations behind closed doors, part of the reason I will never get with a cherry girl.

[Member #3453]

We are coming from two entirely different perspectives. You target the big city ladies working the podunk towns, and I target the small town girls working the big city.

My problem is I am too cheap to entertain the "USSIHJST," the Urban Sophisticate Spoiled iHooker Jet Setting type, especially in Mexico. :-)))

4000 THB is pretty cheap, that's $135.00US...FOR LONG TIME!!!

Another important distinction is that with Thai girls, both with respect to small town girls, or big city sophisticates, I have not found in them the same "Farang Factor" I referred to with respect to small town Mexicanas and their "Gringo Factor" as it relates to GFE.

In Mexico, you can sometimes find a "MUSSIHJST," Mexican Urban Sophistate Spoiled iHooker Jet Setting Type, but the cost would be more like $200-300US per hour, not per day. And, if they truly are urban sophisticates that would most assuredly not include shopping, restaurants, movies, regalos, clothes, etc...

And, of course, many of us have self imposed travel restrictions due to time constraints, and the same kind of "responsibilities" that Monterreydude referred to in his prior post.

No, Asia is the better bargain by far, depending on travel costs, and not withstanding my own "Gringo Factor" quality of experience being what it is through Mexicanas versus Asians. None the less, had I the time and money to travel, I would welcome the diversity of experience in Asia once again just the same. :-)




Actually my type is the light-skinned urban sophisticate spoiled iHooker jet-setting type, the ones I had in mind were big city ladies who happened to be working in podunk towns, maybe on a circuit or similar. In towns were 99/100 ladies are shipped in from the rice paddies, the 1 who grew up in a house with indoor plumbing stands out from a mile away. I have been with the true country ladies before, but usually only ST, they rarely work out into repeats. Have one from about a month ago who had a 2010 Honda Civic, every premium device from the Apple store, (and 2~3 comparably equipped sisters) but still was charging only 4000 THB for LT and was just a blast to hang out with.

I have never personally experienced the "gringo curiosity factor".
Maybe a handful of times in real backwater places a lady will ask what my country is like or something but nothing more. In Monterrey, in certain bars I have gotten with ladies who I am certain have never been with a gringo before, it can be a charming experience, but rarely is a knock out of the park for me. The more experienced ones (who have been with many different cultures, ages, styles, etc..) tend to be a lot more open minded about differing expectations behind closed doors, part of the reason I will never get with a cherry girl.

[Member #3453]

First, lets get one thing straight...I NEVER claimed to be an expert on Monterrey. I DO claim to be an expert on the bars, and on finding girls, and on taking them on salida as economically as possible. I do live here sometimes, but not all the time, splitting my time between Mexico and the US. I am not a native of Mexico, nor have I ever claimed to be anything other than a Gringo with considerably time spent in Monterrey, sufficiently so to comment truthfully on my experience as a resident of the city for long and frequent periods of time. I make commentary from a Gringo's perspective. That's it...

Lets be fair with respect to my referencing Chicago in my comments...

When we first began our discussion in this forum about the levels of violence, the incidents of violence were not at their present levels. I have agreed that those levels have risen, and I have agreed that those levels do now exist.

You can not hold me responsible for not commenting on violence that was once only occasional, then escalating to it's present level, and then claim that I did not comment on an escalation that had not yet occurred when our discussion first began.

My point about Colonia "DEL" Valle is that the cartels are mobile, and you are not safe in areas where you might have believed yourself to be safer in the past. I was merely using Liverpool and Colonia Del Valle as examples. Because, as any resident of Monterrey knows, these incidents are happening now in more public places, in places where families gather, and in places where the events are shocking, apparently to terrorize the public. Or could it be something else???

Frankly, I often wonder how much of the violence we are seeing in Monterrey, especially in some of the public places, aren't copycat violence, perpetrated by wanna be's, malcontents, people looking to inflict "payback" on others they have disagreements with and blaming the cartels, etc...There is so much hype with respect to the violence, and the authorities are so overwhelmed by the incidents they're dealing with regarding the cartels, that some of what we are seeing is opportunistic payback by some that are taking advantage of the conditions.

Hyping the violence only enables wanna be's and malcontents to perpetrate their own crimes upon unsuspecting victims, and then blaming it on the cartels, diverting suspicion away from themselves. They know that the authorities are overwhelmed, and that the danger of being actually apprehended are almost non-existent.

How much of the violence is occurring because it's being hyped, and how much of it is totally unrelated to the cartel activity? More than many think...In that respect, I believe that continually hyping the violence has it's own self fulfilling prophesy. It does not benefit Mexico to capitalize on hyping the violence, and promoting the violence for one's own personal gain as some are doing. It only serves to drive Mexico into further violence as the copycats and malcontents in Mexican society use the opportunity to join in the mayhem, where they might have formerly been concerned about getting caught.

The difference is I don't profit directly from reporting the violence, nor is my objective to continue to capitalize on the violence continuing to occur by hyping it for my own personal gain by constantly referring to it here, and in my own cyber-network designed with that purpose in mind, as you do.

My objective, at least with respect to reporting the violence, has always been to report my own experiences with respect to violence I may have encountered personally. I have done that. I have had NO incidents occur, nor have I witnessed any incidents in the bars that substantiate reports that if someone sets foot in Mexico, or more specifically in the bars, that they will die at the hands of the drug cartels. Frankly, I have experienced no fear to date, observed no violence directly, only the evidence that it exists through my observations of the military presence.

That doesn't mean that the violence isn't occurring, or that visitors should not be cautious, or that dangers have not escalated compared to one year ago. But, when asked whether someone should visit Mexico, and whether they will likely be murdered spending time here in the bars for a couple of days, the answer is NO! If my observations and experience changes, I will most assuredly report it. I have no agenda with regard to hyping the violence for my own personal gain as some do.

With regard to my spelling of El Valle, Del Valle, etc...I am also sometimes guilty of mis-spelling Villagran, as in Villa Gran. I am also sometimes criticized by some that my Spanish pronunciation is more akin to Japanese at times. But, I can assure you I am intimately acquainted with Carlos Salazar and Villa Gran, I mean Villagran.

My first language is English, just as yours is obviously Spanish. I would not expect your English spelling and grammar to be perfectly written, and you should not expect my written Spanish to be perfectly written either, nor should you conclude that my written Spanish is any indicator of my residency or time spent in Monterrey.

It's a ridiculous assumption to speculate that my experience in Monterrey is limited just to El Centro, when I freely admit that my own activities concerning this forum are focused around El Centro, and the bars that I frequent. My writings focus upon one area of the city because that's the purpose of the forum. Frankly, I have no interest in commenting on San Nicolos, or Guadelupe (sp?). For the purpose at hand, I am focused upon El Centro.

Yet, I have heard nothing from you with respect to your having any experience concerning the purpose of this forum. Frankly, I don't mind reading your comments, but you have never even documented one single mongering experience. At the very least my track record with respect to the purpose of this forum is well established and considerably documented.

So, whether one lives here or not, and I DO, it really isn't relevant if one never reports a mongering experience but claims to have tons of familiarity with Monterrey in unrelated areas.




So you first try compare Monterrey to Chicago and takes you long time to admit you wrong and now you try compare El Centro to Colonia Del Valle? Also I know noone who refer to Valle sectors as El Valle. This is one reazon I think you only come here every four or five months for a short time. In the last two weeks five people die on Madero and Colon street amd noone die all year in Liverpool mall. Many things you say make me believe you have little experience here other than El Centro. You most certain are no expert on Monterrey.

[Blourghus]

In the last two weeks five people die on Madero and Colon street amd noone die all year in Liverpool mall.
... details ... If USB said "Palacio de Hierro" instead of "Liverpool" he would have been on the money because there have been plenty of incidents there involving machine gun fire, and who knows what other malls. You are nitpicking on details like names of places and spelling, but missing bigger picture.

I disagree with USB on one thing though. Just because you don't personally witness violence doesn't mean it's not there. You could go to Iraq or Afghanistan or Sudan and probably wouldn't actually witness violence unless you went looking for it. I've been to plenty of dangerous places but never have witnessed a violent incident personally. You can do some math based on how many killings there have been in Monterrey, and find out what the chances are of actually witnessing one, it is tiny. But can you say nobody in your personal social network has been a victim or witnessed violence there? I think that is probably where fear originates from, somebody knew somebody who was a victim, and are afraid it can happen to them.

[Member #3453]

I believe there are those people that are profiting from the hysteria of the conditions in Mexico. They are themselves victims of their own hype, thereby frightening themselves the most, as they collect and re-broadcast the incidents to a buying public, thereby promoting their own businesses in the process, and simultaneously escalating their own fear at the same time.

They may believe that their warnings are noble. Because, to them, the likelihood for violence is magnified because they live the violence in their own imaginations every day, gathering the details, publishing them, exaggerating them wherever possible in order to promote an atmosphere of fear with which to capitalize upon. But, none the less, they believe the extent of their own hype as a result of their daily and regular exposure to it.

The fact is, some of the warnings we read here originate from these same individuals that supplement their living by capitalizing on the fear by publishing it for consumption within their privately owned, small cyber-media websites.

They have a very specific agenda, and they are not issuing warnings for benevolent reasons. They hype the fear factor in order to directly benefit themselves, while simultaneously convincing themselves that they are doing us all an indispensable public service in the process, thereby justifying their activities as benevolent, but subconsciously denying their true profit oriented motivations.

I object to their discouraging mongers that want to visit the city for few days to blow off steam when I know that the danger levels are negligible with respect to the actual statistics, and I also know this based on my own personal experience mongering in Monterrey on a regular and continual basis.

I also believe that the hype they promote only serves to escalate and prolong the actual dangerous and violent conditions that we all wish would subside sooner than later. Reporting the news is one thing, but hoping to promote an escalation of fear, and capitalizing on the tragic circumstances of present day Mexican society is quite another.

[Member #3453]

Several weeks ago, I flagged down a taxi on Madero, and after he dropped my girl off back at her bar, I asked him to take me to El Infinito. He began driving in the opposite direction, West on Madero instead of back East again toward El Infinito.

I don't know what he had in mind. Maybe nothing more than just to run up the bill, but possibly something much worse. Maybe he was going to rob me, who knows. We were on one of the side streets that runs parallel to Madero, dark, lonely, no traffic, no people, and headed further into the darkness.

Except, fortunately for me, there was a guy crossing the street and the taxi had to stop in order to avoid hitting him. I unlocked the door, jumped out, and the guy started in on me, telling me that I owed him 30 pesos. I threw the 30 pesos at him, and started walking, asking him in Spanish just were the hell he thought he was taking me.

My advice, always sit behind the driver, not in the front seat next to him. Always think to keep the upper hand in all that you do, no matter whether you're dealing with taxis or girls. With girls, it depends on whether they've attained trustee status. But, everything else, stay sharp!

With the taxis, sit behind the driver so all you have to do if you get in a jam is choke the asshole out. Don't let them have the upper hand or you might actually end up on the outskirts of Monterrey as one of the statistics.

The street crime is up in Monterrey. There's a lot said about the cartels. But, while everybody is focusing on the cartels, and the high visibility of that potential danger, it's very easy to sometimes drop your guard with respect to what I believe is the actual escalated danger to us as we monger, the street crime, and crimes of opportunity.

[Member #3453]

I had a new girl take my cell phone off my dresser a couple of months ago. I should have known to keep my eye on her. I just dropped my guard. But, in the end, it all worked out. I was 300 pesos poorer, but it was worth every penny to recover an expensive smart phone with all my stuff in it, etc...

I just went back to the bar, told the manager, and offered 300 pesos as a reward for an immediate recovery. I am considered a very good customer, and there was no hesitation in their believing me, or in their moving forward with a recovery.

That is one of the upsides to taking girls from the bars. These managers and waiters get really used to the little propinas they receive, and they drop everything for a regular, paying customer, which I am. They will bend over backwards to keep you happy and make things right, if you're in the right. They don't want to lose their future opportunities for propinas, so they're always very attentive.

It was kind of funny. The bouncers all flocked up upstairs, where all of the girls keep their stuff, and they dumped out a bunch of purses, not just the purse of the girl in question. They ended up with about ten cell phones. They displayed them all to me like they were a deck of cards, and asked me which was mine. I immediately plucked it up out of the pile, showed them that everything was displayed on the phone in Ingles, and that it was indeed mine, paid them their 300 peso ransom, and was on my way.

But, the girl was very angry with me, throwing a big tantrum right there in the bar, trying to represent to all that would listen that I had given it to her. Yeah, right...a $500US smart phone? The manager and the bouncers didn't buy it either, not that it mattered, the 300 pesos was all that mattered to them, and that I was satisfied of course, and I was.

Normally, I would recommend striking that girl from my list of eligible contestants. But, she was actually a pretty good girl in every other way, aside from "OUR" little "incident" as she now describes it :-))))

A few weeks later, I took her out again, after making up with her in the bar. I nailed everything down in the room, and we had a great time... :-))) But, as it turns out, I don't have to nail down everything now. Now, I don't have to worry too much about her. I keep my eye on her a little bit. But, I think she learned her lesson.

My biggest complaint about girls that are so new to the business is their lack of patience, and their lack of business acumen. Some of these girls are just not that smart about things. Some take longer to realize that you may be worth a lot more to them over time than a silly cell phone...A LOT MORE! I am guilty of forgetting just how short sighted some of these new girls can be. I should know better, and do. But, I just dropped my guard.

So, your warning about crimes of opportunity, and dropping your guard, even with respect to crimes that are not particularly dangerous to us, but are still bothersome and aggravating none the less, is a timely one...


Several weeks ago, I flagged down a taxi on Madero, and after he dropped my girl off back at her bar, I asked him to take me to El Infinito. He began driving in the opposite direction, West on Madero instead of back East again toward El Infinito.

I don't know what he had in mind. Maybe nothing more than just to run up the bill, but possibly something much worse. Maybe he was going to rob me, who knows. We were on one of the side streets that runs parallel to Madero, dark, lonely, no traffic, no people, and headed further into the darkness.

Except, fortunately for me, there was a guy crossing the street and the taxi had to stop in order to avoid hitting him. I unlocked the door, jumped out, and the guy started in on me, telling me that I owed him 30 pesos. I threw the 30 pesos at him, and started walking, asking him in Spanish just were the hell he thought he was taking me.

My advice, always sit behind the driver, not in the front seat next to him. Always think to keep the upper hand in all that you do, no matter whether you're dealing with taxis or girls. With girls, it depends on whether they've attained trustee status. But, everything else, stay sharp!

With the taxis, sit behind the driver so all you have to do if you get in a jam is choke the asshole out. Don't let them have the upper hand or you might actually end up on the outskirts of Monterrey as one of the statistics.

The street crime is up in Monterrey. There's a lot said about the cartels. But, while everybody is focusing on the cartels, and the high visibility of that potential danger, it's very easy to sometimes drop your guard with respect to what I believe is the actual escalated danger to us as we monger, the street crime, and crimes of opportunity.

[Chica Luv]

USB
As usual, you have once again so accurately articulated what most of use should be thinking; before, during and after our encounters within our daily lives, especially while in a foreign country.

Thanks for sharing and I look forward to gleaning more well thought out and useful information from you next post.
Chica Luv


I had a new girl take my cell phone off my dresser a couple of months ago. I should have known to keep my eye on her. I just dropped my guard. But, in the end, it all worked out. I was 300 pesos poorer, but it was worth every penny to recover an expensive smart phone with all my stuff in it, etc...
........................
So, your warning about crimes of opportunity, and dropping your guard, even with respect to crimes that are not particularly dangerous to us, but are still bothersome and aggravating none the less, is a timely one...

[Member #3453]

I have to admit, I was embarrassed to even relate these events initially when it happened. It took a while to swallow my pride, and to decide to post it. I mean, afterall, it was such an amateurish thing to happen to one that should know better.

I'm the one that's always saying I'll report stuff that actually happens to me. So, a lapse in following through on my own commitments to report what happens to me came better late than never this time.

Thanks to La Parca, it reminded me that I owed the ISG a mention of what happened in hopes that it might remind some other person whose slacking up like I did to pay better attention before they have to go through the aggravation I had to. And, of course, what happened to me was really quite minor in comparison to what can happen to us when we bring subjects into our midst and neglect to treat them with the suspicion that should be there, at least until they've earned a measure of our trust.

Lately, when I know I'm leaving my place to prowel the bars, I'm now making sure everything is out of sight, put away, etc...just as I should have done before.




USB
As usual, you have once again so accurately articulated what most of use should be thinking; before, during and after our encounters within our daily lives, especially while in a foreign country.

Thanks for sharing and I look forward to gleaning more well thought out and useful information from you next post.
Chica Luv

[Marius 67]

Well. I was ready to go to Monterrey since I had so much free time after quiting my job. No go. The city (Ciudad Mier) I reported seeing dead burn bodies was totally evacuated by the Mexican goverment two days ago. So no bus routes to Monterrey until further notice. This is the first time I've ever heard of a city being evacuated due to Cartel violence. I saw hundreds of refugees in the nearby city Miguel aleman. Please don't censor the link I'am about to put up as it is a real News to Alert mongers of the real crisis Mexico is in. These are the refugees. This city is only about 90 miles from Monterrey. Why is the USA government ignoring this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBR-XvlgSSk&feature=player_embedded

[MonterreyDude]

You are over stating, over exagerating, even contradicting your own link.

Read the description: "The raging drug war in the US-Mexico border region has forced hundreds of residents to seek refuge in neighbouring towns."

No where in the video does it mention "was totally evacuated by the Mexican goverment two days ago", but it does say hundreds.

But sorry to tell you that there is another news article published on-line today saying this:

EL NORTE

Afirman que terminó éxodo en Ciudad Mier

En Ciudad Mier y Camargo, en Tamaulipas, se desarrolla un operativo de policías locales, federales y soldados

Whatever happened in Ciudad Mier is over and the people are going back. Plus the army has made camp in Mier.


And please pretty pretty please, please explain to me where do you want to go with this:

"Why is the USA government ignoring this?"

Please tell us WHAT must the US goverment DO????

Declare war on Mexico???
Invade Mexico???

How about a much simpler thing... curve the appetite for drugs in the US.
How's that for starters???

Naw!!! will never be done.










Well. I was ready to go to Monterrey since I had so much free time after quiting my job. No go. The city (Ciudad Mier) I reported seeing dead burn bodies was totally evacuated by the Mexican goverment two days ago. So no bus routes to Monterrey until further notice. This is the first time I've ever heard of a city being evacuated due to Cartel violence. I saw hundreds of refugees in the nearby city Miguel aleman. Please don't censor the link I'am about to put up as it is a real News to Alert mongers of the real crisis Mexico is in. These are the refugees. This city is only about 90 miles from Monterrey. Why is the USA government ignoring this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBR-XvlgSSk&feature=player_embedded

[Marius 67]

You are over stating, over exagerating, even contradicting your own link.

Read the description: "The raging drug war in the US-Mexico border region has forced hundreds of residents to seek refuge in neighbouring towns."

No where in the video does it mention "was totally evacuated by the Mexican goverment two days ago", but it does say hundreds.

But sorry to tell you that there is another news article published on-line today saying this:

EL NORTE

Afirman que terminó éxodo en Ciudad Mier

En Ciudad Mier y Camargo, en Tamaulipas, se desarrolla un operativo de policías locales, federales y soldados

Whatever happened in Ciudad Mier is over and the people are going back. Plus the army has made camp in Mier.


And please pretty pretty please, please explain to me where do you want to go with this:

"Why is the USA government ignoring this?"

Please tell us WHAT must the US goverment DO????

Declare war on Mexico???
Invade Mexico???

How about a much simpler thing... curve the appetite for drugs in the US.
How's that for starters???

Naw!!! will never be done.
I was there yesterday..All the refugees were still there..I even talked to some of them..and they said the Mexican Army went from house to house warning them to leave or else..Death!..No sh*t BOB..What do i have to do...film the people taking about the horrors going on.. The state Nuevo Leon is about enter this phase. We had scores of Mexicans fleeing Mexico into Starr county this month. Reports from the Media estimate that illegal crossing has jumped 500% the last few months. I don't know how to put in in words. For now stay away from Mexico, unless you are familiar with the area..!
Bob did you not see in the video I just posted of a man being interviewed stating "I'am terrified to go back to my town." Stop accusing me of exagerating stories. The reality is; It's actually worse than what I'am reporting here!

[Member #3453]

If you are scared Marius, aside from costs, you could fly into Monterrey, and fly right over all the potential danger. If flying is too expensive, then you could still take a bus from Laredo.

I understand your apprehension at traveling between the border and Monterrey via the highway system through Ciudad Mier or from Miguel Aleman, but you seem only interested in traveling the most dangerous routes, and you relish the idea of reporting it.

You can't take a bus up to Laredo, and come down here on the bus from Laredo or Reynosa? The roadways between Monterrey and Laredo and Reynosa are SAFE during the day up to about 2pm.

Furthermore, you want to put all the responsibility directly upon the US government for what is essentially a Mexican problem. The USA has no jurisdictional authority in another sovereign country, Mexico.

I never quite understand people who like pointing the finger at the US, and blaming the US for their own lack of responsibility for protecting their own people.

Curbing the consumption of drugs is one potential answer that might contribute to enhancing security for the Mexican people, but a failure by Mexico to protect it's own innocents from the mayhem is really inexcusable.

You mean to tell me that the Mexican government can't occupy and DOMINATE any location in their country, and secure their own people. Hogwash! They aren't doing it because they don't want to. The lack of responsibility, therefore, goes much deeper than an apparent inability to protect the people. The officials in Mexico are as complicit in the problem as the politicians and consuming public is in the USA.

Tell you what, give me a couple of Apache helicopters, and a division of Mexican Soldiers, and those roadways between the border and Monterrey would be more secure for travelers than any highway in the the US. They simply don't want to do it. They prefer to let them go. The politicians are all complicit in the drug trade.




Well. I was ready to go to Monterrey since I had so much free time after quiting my job. No go. The city (Ciudad Mier) I reported seeing dead burn bodies was totally evacuated by the Mexican goverment two days ago. So no bus routes to Monterrey until further notice. This is the first time I've ever heard of a city being evacuated due to Cartel violence. I saw hundreds of refugees in the nearby city Miguel aleman. Please don't censor the link I'am about to put up as it is a real News to Alert mongers of the real crisis Mexico is in. These are the refugees. This city is only about 90 miles from Monterrey. Why is the USA government ignoring this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBR-XvlgSSk&feature=player_embedded

[Member #3453]

Why do you reply to Monterreydude's posts by referring to him as "Bob," as though you're responding to Unsponge"bob's" comments? Even our detractors know that we are two different mongers.

There is a very simple solution. You don't have to give up on our fine Mexican girls in favor of "Mexicana Substitute" as you endure your self imposed exile on the US side of the border.

If you think there are dangers in certain areas in Mexico, then avoid those areas...

To advocate staying completely out of Mexico is an alarmist position, one that will have you stuck in the US with blue balls.

And, consider this, if you choose to pay US rates to see girls on the US side of the border instead, you could just as easily apply those additional costs to a plane ticket, thereby avoiding all the fear and trepidation that plagues you. Plus, you're not relegated to the lousy Feminazi attitudes you'll undoubtedly find on the US side of the border while on self imposed exile.

If you want to advocate staying out of Cuidad Mier or Miguel Aleman, fine. If you want to advocate that certain modes of travel, or certain times of day, be avoided. Or, if you advocate taking the most dangerous areas into consideration when you travel, fine.

But, your implication is that dangers in those notorious areas apply to mongering in Monterrey, the subject of this thread. By applying circumstances that are occurring in isolated trouble areas in Mexico to the whole of Mexico, and specifically implying that the dangers in those areas are indicative of Monterrey, the reader is left with an inaccurate assessment of how things really are here.

I am here in Monterrey, and I am living it. To imply that the danger level you describe for Miguel Aleman or Cuidad Mier is the same as what you will encounter in Monterrey is very inaccurate.




I was there yesterday..All the refugees were still there..I even talked to some of them..and they said the Mexican Army went from house to house warning them to leave or else..Death!..No sh*t BOB..What do i have to do...film the people taking about the horrors going on.. The state Nuevo Leon is about enter this phase. We had scores of Mexicans fleeing Mexico into Starr county this month. Reports from the Media estimate that illegal crossing has jumped 500% the last few months. I don't know how to put in in words. For now stay away from Mexico, unless you are familiar with the area..!
Bob did you not see in the video I just posted of a man being interviewed stating "I'am terrified to go back to my town." Stop accusing me of exagerating stories. The reality is; It's actually worse than what I'am reporting here!

[MonterreyDude]

Marius I must thank you for the video.
Very intresting thing, specially since it's Al Jazeera... quite a curiosity indeed.

And you were say about "Why is the USA government ignoring this?"???





I was there yesterday..All the refugees were still there..I even talked to some of them..and they said the Mexican Army went from house to house warning them to leave or else..Death!..No sh*t BOB..What do i have to do...film the people taking about the horrors going on.. The state Nuevo Leon is about enter this phase. We had scores of Mexicans fleeing Mexico into Starr county this month. Reports from the Media estimate that illegal crossing has jumped 500% the last few months. I don't know how to put in in words. For now stay away from Mexico, unless you are familiar with the area..!
Bob did you not see in the video I just posted of a man being interviewed stating "I'am terrified to go back to my town." Stop accusing me of exagerating stories. The reality is; It's actually worse than what I'am reporting here!

[Member #3453]

Great investigative work Monterreydude...Al Jazeera indeed!!!! HAHAHA, comon' Marius. How do we know you aren't in some rat hole in Beirut?

Let's see Marius, you are deathly afraid of being anywhere near the danger, yet we are expected to believe that you were right along with the refugees yesterday, talking to them, right in the thick of things, right there in the snake pit itself. You didn't hurry on your way so as to avoid further exposure to the potential danger you claim exists in the area, but instead you stopped to "interview" the refugees.

Uhmmmm, doesn't sound like you're that frightened to me Marius.

It's like I've been saying all along. There are those whose sole purpose is to hype and exaggerate the circumstances in Mexico, and for who knows what kind of personal gain.

Oh, and Marius, you forgot to add something about half of the refugees also being transvestites. :-)))))))))


Marius I must thank you for the video.
Very intresting thing, specially since it's Al Jazeera... quite a curiosity indeed.

And you were say about "Why is the USA government ignoring this?"???

[Nobu7]

Is hype and bs mainly for the American Audience.

I will tell you this. I lived in Reynosa for the last year. And If you are American- yes. Stay out of Juarez and Reynosa.

I have traveled all over the world. And Monterrey is about as dangerous as any large city with what 4mill peps?

The most dangerous part about Monterrey is driving. These people drive like in Seoul or Egypt but actually a little worse.

If you want to come here and buy drugs and roll like a Rap star. Well then you may end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. But try doing that in MEmphis and see how fast you get in trouble.

My former profession is in military, intell and security. Monterrey is Safe. And its getting better.

Peace

[CA Traveler II]

I'll be traveling to Monterrey in Dec. or Jan.

Can anyone recommend Girl friendly Hotels and the best places for a full service massage.

Thanks

[Blourghus]

If you want to come here and buy drugs and roll like a Rap star. Well then you may end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. But try doing that in MEmphis and see how fast you get in trouble.


AHA! You've arrived to the crux of the argument.
The thing to understand about UnospongeBob and MonterryDude is that they are daytime, low profile mongers and are under silk sheets by 23:00, and have very fixed, relatively conservative itineraries while they are out and about (going to places where they are known). OF COURSE, any city can be made safe if you never take any risk and just repeat the same thing over & over. But you can also argue that it's dull & boring. How fun can it be?

Guys who are pushing the boundaries and are out exploring and high rolling into the wee hours, are going to have a totally different perspective.

Last month in an international city (not Monterrey) I bar-fined FIVE ladies at the same time and took them out to expensive night clubs, in somewhat high roller rock star fashion, center of attention everywhere we went, until the sun rose - no trouble whatsoever, and a spectacular night which will be pretty tough for me to ever forget.

Could I do the same thing nowadays in Monterrey? Let's not forget that there are tons of places where this is perfectly safe.
Or can Monterrey only be safe if you stick to the known paths, don't raise any eyebrows, and monger quickly and discretely?

[Member #3453]

Excellent points...just as I have said many times...remain low key, and you will be perfectly safe in Monterrey. I advise mongers to plan your activities, think before you execute them, and watch your back at all times.

I used to stay out until 4-5am every night only a few years ago, sometimes taking two girls at a time, three girls a day, walking between the clubs until the wee hours, my head not hitting the pillow until 6am, etc...

I have, shall we say, slowed down a bit. But, 23:00pm??? Please Blourghas! :-)

But, you're right in this regard, Monterreydude and I have relatively similar routines, out only until maybe one-ish or two-ish in the "AM" at the most these days. We need our beauty sleep afterall... ;-)

I had begun to think, in the light of the deteriorating circumstances in Mexico, that my routine was becoming relatively careless, too predictable, pushing the boundaries, which I actually began to see as a potential security risk in and of itself.

So, I made a conscious decision several years ago to domesticate my activities, to frequent only familiar surroundings, etc...In doing so, my activities could easily be construed now as boring by some. And, at times, I do feel that my activities could use some rejuvenation.

But, about the time I am feeling bored, I also remember that my life is infinitely safer, especially in light of the circumstances in Mexico these days. And still, even as they are boring by International Standards, my activities, even as they are now, are significantly more exciting in Monterrey than back in the US.



AHA! You've arrived to the crux of the argument.
The thing to understand about UnospongeBob and MonterryDude is that they are daytime, low profile mongers and are under silk sheets by 23:00, and have very fixed, relatively conservative itineraries while they are out and about (going to places where they are known). OF COURSE, any city can be made safe if you never take any risk and just repeat the same thing over & over. But you can also argue that it's dull & boring. How fun can it be?

Guys who are pushing the boundaries and are out exploring and high rolling into the wee hours, are going to have a totally different perspective.

Last month in an international city (not Monterrey) I bar-fined FIVE ladies at the same time and took them out to expensive night clubs, in somewhat high roller rock star fashion, center of attention everywhere we went, until the sun rose - no trouble whatsoever, and a spectacular night which will be pretty tough for me to ever forget.

Could I do the same thing nowadays in Monterrey? Let's not forget that there are tons of places where this is perfectly safe.
Or can Monterrey only be safe if you stick to the known paths, don't raise any eyebrows, and monger quickly and discretely?

[Chica Luv]

MD
No one could have said it better.... The problem isn't as much the cartels & assorted assholes, it is the Americans that are using the drugs.

No demand, No supply. If americans stop using & buying drugs the cartel and their violence goes elsewhere.

What the American government needs to do is stamp out drug use in the USA.
END of STORY!

IMHO of course...
Chica Luv

You are over stating, over exagerating, even contradicting your own link.

Read the description: "The raging drug war in the US-Mexico border region has forced hundreds of residents to seek refuge in neighbouring towns."

No where in the video does it mention "was totally evacuated by the Mexican goverment two days ago", but it does say hundreds.

But sorry to tell you that there is another news article published on-line today saying this:

EL NORTE

Afirman que terminó éxodo en Ciudad Mier

En Ciudad Mier y Camargo, en Tamaulipas, se desarrolla un operativo de policías locales, federales y soldados

Whatever happened in Ciudad Mier is over and the people are going back. Plus the army has made camp in Mier.


And please pretty pretty please, please explain to me where do you want to go with this:

"Why is the USA government ignoring this?"

Please tell us WHAT must the US goverment DO????

Declare war on Mexico???
Invade Mexico???

How about a much simpler thing... curve the appetite for drugs in the US.
How's that for starters???

Naw!!! will never be done.

[MonterreyDude]

CA Traveler...

Girl friendly hotels: Sheraton Ambassador or the Hamtpon Inn Galerias.
Depends if you are coming for mongering or work, need to know the general area where you'll be.

Full service massage as in a massage with a happy ending or just the sex???
Massage as in a real massage, that is going to be a little hard.

Ask your questions... will help you out



I'll be traveling to Monterrey in Dec. or Jan.

Can anyone recommend Girl friendly Hotels and the best places for a full service massage.

Thanks

[CA Traveler II]

i will be going to monterrey for work and a bit of mongering. usually i'll stay by the airport but i would like to stay closer to the action. looking for "massage" similar to when i am guadalajara, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or high class. so the "girl friendly" hotels would be nice if the general area of the massage parlors.

thanks

[MonterreyDude]

a hotel in the general area of the mps is the sheraton ambassador in the hotel distric zone since there are no longer girl friendly hotels in the madero ave area.

but in the general in the sense the sheraton has every mp in a 5-10 minutes riding a taxi and once there, there are areas where you can find 4-10 mp's of all prices and quality in a 4 block radius.

that could be an option.




i will be going to monterrey for work and a bit of mongering. usually i'll stay by the airport but i would like to stay closer to the action. looking for "massage" similar to when i am guadalajara, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or high class. so the "girl friendly" hotels would be nice if the general area of the massage parlors.

thanks

[Mark]

Long standing member here.

I've been to Monterey a few years ago and find myself heading back in a few days. I don't have time to do as much research as I'd like so I was hoping some fellow mongers could help me out.

Length. 2 days.

Hotel. Sheriton?

Chicas? I prefer salidas and value based girls. I'm not afraid to hit the lesser know places with the hope of finding girls with more of a non-pro attitude.

Favors? Vitamin V still OTC? Also what about pain meds like vicodin? Will a pharmacy have a doc on staff to write a script?

Thanks and feel free to Pm me.

Gracias

[Nobu7]

OF COURSE, any city can be made safe if you never take any risk and just repeat the same thing over & over. But you can also argue that it's dull & boring. How fun can it be?

Guys who are pushing the boundaries and are out exploring and high rolling into the wee hours, are going to have a totally different perspective.

Last month in an international city (not Monterrey) I bar-fined FIVE ladies at the same time and took them out to expensive night clubs, in somewhat high roller rock star fashion, center of attention everywhere we went, until the sun rose - no trouble whatsoever, and a spectacular night which will be pretty tough for me to ever forget.

Could I do the same thing nowadays in Monterrey?I believe that it is much safer to do that here than on Beale street in Memphis.

It is a safe City if you put it in terms of millions of people compared to the amount of violent acts committed. The ratio is negligible. Most people here love foreigners. And EVERYone here loves a good fiesta.

I get out and do a lot of stuff man. A lot of it alone too, at least till I meet more friends.

I dont think of Monterrey as dangerous at all really. But I guess I am more accustomed to being in danger. I don't know.

Good luck,

Nobu

[Member #3453]

a lot of business guys are stuck out near the airport due to arrangements made by their travel departments or their corporate travel agents, often because they have corporate contracts with certain hotel chains, etc...many of which have located hotels out near the airport.

but, if you let them stick you out there, you'll literally be about 30-40 minutes from the action, depending on traffic. the sheraton ambassador, and now according to blourghas, possibly the crown plaza, both downtown, are much better options, and much closer to the action. they're just as secure, maybe more so. the taxi ride will cost you exactly 260 pesos to the sheraton ambassador (less than $26us).

if you can swing it, get your people to change your reservations to the sheraton ambassador first, if not the sheraton, then the hampton inn-gallerias, second, then the crown plaza, third. i recommend them in that order because blourghas has just recently reported having no problems at the crown plaza, but it has not been tried numerous times like the sheraton-ambassador, and the hampton inn, which have been tested more frequently with success by greater numbers of mongers over time.

tell your corporate travel department that with the dangers going on in mexico, you feel much safer in the downtown area. and, literally, that isn't too far off base. when you stay out near the airport, you're staying in a more remote area, an area closer to the outskirts of monterrey, in areas where there are much higher incidents of drug gang activity at night, and closer to where the bodies are buried, literally.

if your corporate travel department agrees to put you downtown, but they insist on putting you in one of the gringo hotel chains that isn't girl friendly after all, i would still rather be downtown rather than up around the airport. i would rather be staying in a gringo hotel chain downtown, and take a girl to one of the hourly hotels for fun, and return to my nice cushy hotel to sleep at night after having fun, than to be stuck out around the airport, wasting 40 minutes commuting back and forth. besides, just because our experience demonstrates that most of the other gringo hotel chains are not girl friendly, doesn't mean you can't catch a break, and slip the girls in with some luck. there are always exceptions, bribes, etc...

the premise that it is more dangerous out near the airport isn't necessarily true. that is, i am not particularly convinced that the criminal element isn't active in all parts of monterrey where it suites their purposes, their having complete mobility, and virtually running a muck inflicting their assaults on people without any particular statistical predictability. but, you can use that claim, that downtown hotels are more secure, to get your corporate travel department to buy into your demand that they locate you in a safer environment (ie: downtown/el centro monterrey).

usually, the gringos will buy that argument if you insist for your own safety's sake. with all the hype about mexico in the news media, you can use that hype to your advantage to demand they accommodate your wishes...because, after all, you "fear for your life," right?

should you fear for your life? nooooooo! but, all americans believe that traveling in mexico is akin to being in beirut these days, so why not use it to your advantage so you can be closer, logistically, to some tail. if you let them stick you way out near the airport, you'll find that you're at a huge logistical disadvantage...trust me. the only exception to that might be were you to call upon escorts only, and not plan to visit the mps, or take club girls on salida. the escort girls will come to the hotels near the airport without any fuss, and i believe in that instance, you'll encounter few obstacles with respect to logistics.


i will be going to monterrey for work and a bit of mongering. usually i'll stay by the airport but i would like to stay closer to the action. looking for "massage" similar to when i am guadalajara, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or high class. so the "girl friendly" hotels would be nice if the general area of the massage parlors.

thanks

[CA Traveler II]

Thanks for the information. Ok so if I choose the Sheraton or Crown Plaza, do you have any recommendations for MP's close by. I saw the map but there seems to be quite a few.

[MonterreyDude]

"Hotel": Sheraton Ambassador a good option.

"I prefer salidas and value based girls.": The answer would be Infinito.
1000 (depending on the girl 1500 tops) plus 350 bar fine.

My question to you Mark: Would you like in-call escort services options???

All EDs medicines can still be bought over the counter.
Original and generic.

Vicodin in Monterrey has never been available without a script.
Nor are antibiotics available OTC anymore.

The pharmacy chain Farmacias del Ahorro have free medical consultation, but I just don't know if they will be party to write a script on certain medical pharmacuticals.




Long standing member here.

I've been to Monterey a few years ago and find myself heading back in a few days. I don't have time to do as much research as I'd like so I was hoping some fellow mongers could help me out.

Length. 2 days.

Hotel. Sheriton?

Chicas? I prefer salidas and value based girls. I'm not afraid to hit the lesser know places with the hope of finding girls with more of a non-pro attitude.

Favors? Vitamin V still OTC? Also what about pain meds like vicodin? Will a pharmacy have a doc on staff to write a script?

Thanks and feel free to Pm me.

Gracias

[Member #3453]

I haven't purchased antibiotics for a couple of months, but I remember several weeks after they passed the new laws, I walked into Benevides, and they sold me antibiotics right over the counter, no problem. But, they know me at my particular Benevides store. So, maybe they figured they wouldn't get in any trouble by selling to me without a script. I'll have to try it again, and see if they'll come through.

I was SOOOOO disappointed when they passed that law. It is one of the things that always distinguished Mexico from the US in the best of ways.

In Mexico, you actually had a true sense of freedom compared to the US, the supposed "land of the free." Now, Mexico just wants to emulate the US, both societies becoming incrementally more totalitarian in all that they do, the TSA in the USA being the most recent example, and Mexico's new prescription laws the other.

Lets see, metal detectors are not adequate to find firearms, knives, etc...brought on the airplane. Almost every flight has an armed Air Marshal to intervene where terrorists are concerned with respect to them getting a weapon through. The pilot and co-pilots are armed. The passengers these days would rip terrorists limb to limb if they even bat and eyelash, feeding them their box cutters like they were candy. The door between the cabin and the cockpit can withstand a howitzer attack, etc...

That means that bombs should be the main concern that motivates the TSA to use full body scanners and invasive pat downs, right?

One Question...If bombs are the concern, why don't these damned fools use Dogs? Why do they need to use pat downs and full body scanners? Dogs can smell through almost anything, and their use would not be a violation of of our constitutional protections. We are supposed to be free from unreasonable search and seizure by the government without probable cause.

I love my country, but it is not what it once was, the land of the free. Now Mexico is incrementally losing it's draw with these stupid new laws that further limits our access to freedom. In the past, we could escape to Mexico to get away from all the political correctness, and the other non-sense that exists in US society. Who knows, maybe the next shoe to drop will be "pay for play," in Mexico. It is a slippery slope. Then, where do we go for true FREEDOM?


"Hotel": Sheraton Ambassador a good option.

"I prefer salidas and value based girls.": The answer would be Infinito.
1000 (depending on the girl 1500 tops) plus 350 bar fine.

My question to you Mark: Would you like in-call escort services options???

All EDs medicines can still be bought over the counter.
Original and generic.

Vicodin in Monterrey has never been available without a script.
Nor are antibiotics available OTC anymore.

The pharmacy chain Farmacias del Ahorro have free medical consultation, but I just don't know if they will be party to write a script on certain medical pharmacuticals.

[Marius 67]

Well, finally got a steady girlfriend in Monterrey, it's so much easier to find nice women here that it is in the states! I just feel bad because as soon as I leave my girls house, I am out working girl mongering again. One new thing I've noticed is the increased security in all of Mexico, Mexican troops are all over the place. We were stopped a total of 5 times before our bus arrived to Monterrey. The one scary thing I did see were troops burning human remains in the town of Cerralvo. It was surreal! I guess as long as it's the bad guys dying, it's always a good thing. Maybe the troop increase is setting the stage for the final cartel confrontation? For those of you in the dark, the Mexican government has made progress against the Mexican drug cartels! More deaths have occured, but it is usually the bad guys dying. Monterrey is still a dangerous place, just stay alert and aware!

[Member #3453]

I finally had a chance to find out whether I would be able to obtain antibiotics without first having to obtain a prescription. I've visited several of my regular pharmacies over the last few weeks, and each of them told me that I had to obtain a "Certification" (ie: Prescription) before purchasing antibiotics now.

Before, right after the law passed, they were selling to me without a prescription, no problem. But, they must have had a grace period for the law to take effect because now each of them seems to be following the rules.

So, today I visited one of the clinics, and asked the doctor if I could obtain a prescription for antibiotics so I could purchase them for future use, just in case I would need them if I came down with an infection. The cost of the prescription was 35 pesos. I told the doctor that in the past, I had kept some antibiotics in my casa, and that I had only taken them when the severity of the condition called for Azitromicina in the case of what seemed like a nasal infection, and/or for a severe sore throat, or Erethromicina in the case of what felt like a lingering chest infection. I was sure to explain that I do not use them indiscriminately, or in excess. Only when the condition lingers beyond a reasonable period of time.

I just like to stock pile them for convenience sake. Besides, this whole doctor's visit/prescription thing is a scam in the US, designed to increase business for the doctor, and drive the cost of antibiotics through the roof. The doctor doesn't know anything unless they a do a bacterial culture, which they do not typically do, not even in the US. They look in your throat for 10 seconds, charge you $150 bucks (US) for the privilege, take a trip or two to Bermuda on the drug company every year, and you pay three times more than what the antibiotics cost in other parts of the World. So, I figure my guess is as good as theirs as to whether I have an infection or not. Whom are they trying to kid? I guess Mexican doctors are feeling jealous, and want in on the scam...

The doctor said that things have gotten very tight now in Monterrey with respect to their writing prescriptions, and that they can only do so when the patient actually has symptoms of a condition at the time the prescription is issued.

So, apparently, no bribing your way past the system for the simple cost of an office visit. Frankly, when I heard the law had been passed, I was convinced, it being Mexico, that it would not be too difficult to subvert the system. That's kind of discouraging. I mean, it is Mexico, verdad? What is the world coming to?

Interestingly, when I told my girlfriend what happened, she told me that she thought she could get them for me from her doctor. She was able to go to her doctor and obtain a prescription, which she used to purchase the antibiotics for me. I assure you...she is quite healthy, and has no symptoms of any infection whatsoever.

If you're a visitor to Monterrey, and you don't know people in "low places " :-))), the party's over. No more antibiotics without a prescription. Fortunately, they are not requiring a doctor's prescription for Viagra...yet. But, can that be too far off? I wonder.

[Blourghus]

If you're a visitor to Monterrey, and you don't know people in "low places " :-))), the party's over. No more antibiotics without a prescription. Fortunately, they are not requiring a doctor's prescription for Viagra...yet. But, can that be too far off? I wonder.In Nuevo Laredo there are still (well, as of about 6 months ago at least) , shadetree doctors who will write you a prescription for everything. I wonder if antibiotics are harder to get than the hardcore controlled medications? In any case, I'd be surprised if Viagra becomes controlled any time in the foreseeable future. And if it does, I doubt it will be a difficult prescription to obtain.

[Member #3453]

In Nuevo Laredo there are still (well, as of about 6 months ago at least) , shadetree doctors who will write you a prescription for everything. I wonder if antibiotics are harder to get than the hardcore controlled medications? In any case, I'd be surprised if Viagra becomes controlled any time in the foreseeable future. And if it does, I doubt it will be a difficult prescription to obtain.It seems like antibiotics in Monterrey have become as difficult to get at the hard core stuff. But, maybe things are looser in Nuevo Laredo. Chaos rules the border towns, so maybe you can still get the antibiotics over the counter with little difficulty, or at least you can buy a prescription with little or no difficulty.

[MonterreyDude]

No, this enforcement of the law started in April with a leeway of 6 months, so officially this started in October, that's why many of you mongers have not noticed it till today.

I had my first encounter with the antibiotics with the "sold only with prescription" last week when I caught a very strong pharyngitis some 3 weeks ago (USB noticed last time he was here) and had my first experience of what happens in America when going to a doctor means taking your time and NOT doing it.

I usually asked my doctor friends what I should buy and take, but since the law became a fact I just let it go without asking, without taking the usual Azitromicina (Zithromax in the US) for the sore throat.

When I finally had a formal check up (last tuesday) the doctor told me that my lungs were starting to be afected by the infection (fluid in the lungs).

So instead of having a "usual" dose of Zithromax for 3 days, I was prescribed a different dose, a stronger one for 4 days and am still on steriods to the day am writing this.

Now I understand what happens in the US and all the medical mess you have over there: instead of buying Azitromicina for 80 pesos on the first instance, it turned out I had to pay 250 pesos for the checkup and 800 pesos in medication.
Quite a big big diference.




It seems like antibiotics in Monterrey have become as difficult to get at the hard core stuff. But, maybe things are looser in Nuevo Laredo. Chaos rules the border towns, so maybe you can still get the antibiotics over the counter with little difficulty, or at least you can buy a prescription with little or no difficulty.

[Member #3453]

Now I understand what happens in the US and all the medical mess you have over there: instead of buying Azitromicina for 80 pesos on the first instance, it turned out I had to pay 250 pesos for the checkup and 800 pesos in medication.Quite a big big diference.

And now, yes, the problem is no longer "over there." In Mexico's impatient haste to emulate the US in all that it does, your own politicians have taken another of your freedoms from you. And, it isn't only a matter of stolen freedom. It is a matter of extraordinary escalated cost.

I remember when the price of tortillas went up 5 pesos. There were riots in the streets in Mexico. Imagine now, the price of going to the doctor for regular people, the ones that truly can not afford it, going up by as much as 76% according to your own calculations.

I hope the people bring tremendous pressure upon their politicians to reverse things...And, by the way, 250 pesos is a bargain compared to seeing a doctor in the US. To see a real doctor in the US it costs around $150(US). And, the cost of one package of Zithromax is around $70(US). Soon, the affordable cost of antibiotics will begin to rise for the Mexican people. Work HARD to reverse it NOW, or pay the consequences.

[Zoom 21]

How the Infinito is doing? Can you still get a girl out?

And what is the quality of girls, Is still the same?

I will be there next week and I want to spend some time at that place.

Also I want to visit Marcella and LeBaron.

Zoom

[Member #3453]

How the Infinito is doing? Can you still get a girl out?

And what is the quality of girls, Is still the same?

I will be there next week and I want to spend some time at that place.

Also I want to visit Marcella and LeBaron.

Zoom

Most girls will take the next few weeks off, especially the ones with kids. Many girls see a decline starting to happen in the numbers of people in the bar this time of year, and they just don't show up to work. You'll probably still find some of the die hard girls there, but it's going to be virtually dead. Most of the girls won't start to return until about the second week of January. The week you're planning to be here will be dead in comparison to normal.

[MonterreyDude]

Zoom are you coming in on 31-1st, New Years?

Well don't, everyone shuts down, all clubs MP's, SCs close. The big ones will close Friday and open till Monday.

Infinito will open on the 1st, but to what kind of material. I don't know.

El Cabron tried it once some years ago and boy did he repent on doing it.


How the Infinito is doing? Can you still get a girl out?

And what is the quality of girls, Is still the same?

I will be there next week and I want to spend some time at that place.

Also I want to visit Marcella and LeBaron.

Zoom

[Member #3453]

Zoom are you coming in on 31-1st, New Years?

Well don't, everyone shuts down, all clubs MP's, SCs close. The big ones will close Friday and open till Monday.

Infinito will open on the 1st, but to what kind of material. I don't know.

El Cabron tried it once some years ago and boy did he repent on doing it.

Yes, lucky for him, El Cabron had a few of his regulars available that I believe he called upon. And, even with El Cabron's range of connections, I think he was pretty bored most of the time. In a Catholic dominated society, even the girls that are otherwise available to us outside the clubs will be really busy with family, traveling to their home towns, taking their kids to movies, parties, etc...even as committed as some of our closest girls are to us 51 weeks out of the year, the ones with kids will ditch us out of obligation to their children this time of year, and they will not think twice about doing it.

Don't do it Zoom. Save your money...or, fly to somewhere like Indonesia or Thailand where the Holiday influence isn't so strong.

[Zoom 21]

Yes, lucky for him, El Cabron had a few of his regulars available that I believe he called upon. And, even with El Cabron's range of connections, I think he was pretty bored most of the time. In a Catholic dominated society, even the girls that are otherwise available to us outside the clubs will be really busy with family, traveling to their home towns, taking their kids to movies, parties, etc. Even as committed as some of our closest girls are to us 51 weeks out of the year, the ones with kids will ditch us out of obligation to their children this time of year, and they will not think twice about doing it.

Don't do it Zoom. Save your money. Or, fly to somewhere like Indonesia or Thailand where the Holiday influence isn't so strong. Well I guess I'm going to stay in Reynosa with my girlfriend.

Thank you guys.

Zoom

[Celina Lara]

Does anyone here know of a casa de cita for women? I normally use the vivastreet but recently had a bad experience with a male escort who was not what apperaed in the fotos.

I had a good experience with this person. She does couples, women and men.

www.platasexxymty.blogs P o t. Com

[Marius 67]

News Report. Monterrey still not safe!


Two police departments in Monterrey, the capital of the northern Mexican state of Nuevo Leon, have ordered officers to stay at their stations in the wake of attacks that left four law enforcement agents dead and three others wounded, officials said.

Monterrey transit police commanders and officials in the suburb of Guadalupe ordered officers in their departments to not go on patrol.

Police in the neighboring cities of San Nicolas, Apodaca and San Pedro are continuing to patrol the streets, but they are doing so in convoys, spokesmen for the different departments said.

Two transit police officers were murdered and two others wounded Friday night in Monterrey.

The city, home to some of Mexico's largest industrial corporations, plans to request the deployment of more Federal Police officers, Mayor Fernando Larrazabal said Saturday.

Transit police do not have adequate weapons to take on the gunmen employed by the drug cartels that operate in the area, Larrazabal said.

Two officers in Apodaca, a city in the Monterrey metropolitan area, were murdered last week by gunmen armed with assault rifles.

More than half a dozen attacks have been staged since the beginning of the year on police departments in the area.

The attacks were blamed on drug traffickers who claim the slain officers worked for Los Zetas, considered Mexico's most violent cartel.

Gunmen fired shots and hurled grenades at a prison in Monterrey last week.

[Strike 69]

News Report. Monterrey still not safe!Monterrey and the rest of Mexico is not going to start to "normalize" or to be any "safer" until the Calderon administration leaves office in 2012, the current president is nothing more than a lame duck with a blood soaking fiasco at hand.

[Member #3453]

News Report. Monterrey still not safe!Some might say that Tuscon is unsafe. I think (16) in one parking lot in broad daylight might just have Monterrey beat.

[Member #3453]

Some might say that Tuscon is unsafe. I think (16) in one parking lot in broad daylight might just have Monterrey beat.That's very true. Just when you think you're safe, danger lurks just around the corner, just like in Tuscon. That's precisely why I've always said that even though there are dangers in Monterrey, you are no more in danger there than anywhere else, especially if you take some basic precautions. People living in the US think they're safe, but they really have no concept of the stuff going on around them, and how often they narrowly miss being a statistic themselves. There is a false sense of security in the US. You may not experience the level of cruelty with respect to the cruelty demonstrated by the cartels, but you are just as dead when your number comes up no matter which country you're in.

[Member #3453]

I heard a talk show that made reference to the prior political parties in Mexico having a lid on things prior to Calderon taking office, and that they're influence upon the drug cartels was quite strong.

I admire the idea of going after the drug cartels. Their business is a curse upon society. But, which is worse, the wholesale murder and mayhem they bring because they're being opposed, or just giving in things can return to some degree of safety.

From my perspective, it would be much better if we could return to the days when Mexico was comparatively safe. If Calderon is out, maybe things will return to just a little larceny, cheating, etc. Wholesale Murder and Anarchy has a way of discouraging tourism. Calderon should have been able to bring the Cartels to their knees with all the assets of the Mexican Government at his disposal. This has been going on too long. I am beginning to believe that the Calderon Administration chose sides a few years ago. Of course, they have to appear to be fighting all the Cartels so they aren't accused of corruption themselves. In my opinion, it seems like the conflict in Mexico has gone on far too long for it to be any other way.

I agree that it sure would be nice if a change in the Administration would calm things down so we can get back to the way things were just a few years ago. Mexico has always held a certain element of risk. But, the risk we ran a few years ago, before all this started, was manageable. At least you didn't have to justify your sanity to your own countrymen over plans to visit Mexico. And, if you want to ride a bus into Monterrey, at least you wouldn't have to think twice about being murdered on the highway between NL and Monterrey.

[Member #3453]

Remember, I am always looking for the girls that display some hint of sincerity, "acted" or "legit," doesn't matter to me as long as they are good actresses. And, I have found both types in the past. And, if she is really good, I will treat her like a real girlfriend, and take care of her with a regalo on her birthday, acknowledge her as a real human being, not just a h**ker, etc...

Today is my friend's birthday, and she has been hinting at a regalo. At first, I was considering it because she backed off of being pushy about it, and asked me just to remember her birthday when the day arrived. It seemed she was lapsing toward quasi girlfriend kind of behavior. That was good...So, I was really considering a regalo for her birthday.

With some, depending on how they act, I go just a step further, and actually give them a little money, or a small gift, partly for my own devilish reasons, and partly because I like being nice to them. And, frankly, I sometimes feel kind of sorry for some of them too. Some of them truly do live in abject poverty, and they must live day to day because of their financial condition. Anyway, I do enjoy brightening their special day, etc. I just like the feeling I get in doing it, depending on the girl.

I had hoped that maybe I had found this sincerity trait in the one whose birthday was today, and I am still trying to decide whether I can turn her from "act" to quasi "gf." Even if "sincerity" is mostly an act. The less of an "act" it is, the better. But, I can settle for a good "act." I can respect a good act if it's done with professionalism, discipline, and patience. But, most of the girls have no patience or discipline with their acts. Frankly, they really are not smart enough to run a professional game. Most of them do not have enough discipline to develop and work a good "long term" strategy, so they don't get good long term results. Whatever happened to the good actresses? It is rather disappointing!

So, because this one girl in particular was being disciplined with respect to her "act," I was thinking I would surprise her, just something small, maybe 350 pesos in cash. But, then last night she sent me another text hinting again at her regalo.

It just totally turned me off. It takes all the fun out of it...I just don't feel any motivation to be nice to her when her "expectations" are so obvious. Her impatience and lack of discipline only reveals her true motivations. If I am going to play the game, I want them to work hard at making it seem like less of a scam.

I know it's only 300 pesos, but if I give her the money, then I am just digging a deeper hole for myself, something that I know will only serve to make her feel even more entitled in the future. I don't want her to feel entitled. I want her to feel an obligation to work at it, but to work at it according to my own terms. I just hate it when they take all the joy out of giving by being so obvious, as in mercenary. Can't they learn to be more subtle? Subtly and patience is truly the secret to their success, but they just can't grasp those concepts.

They must be patient in playing the game if they want long term dividends that come from our soft-hearted benevolence.

[Larbo]

News Report. Monterrey still not safe!I have been comming to Monterrey 12-18 times per year for almost 8 years now. The company I work for has three major suppliers here which I visit regularly.

I have lurked on this site for most of those years, and I thank all the senior members I have gleaned valuable information from. I have the zona central committed to memory thanks to the excellent mongers map so generously supplied by a senior member.

I am a regular at El Infinito as I am there 4-6 nights in a row on every trip. The manager knows me well, and most of the waiters know my favorite table and what beer I drink. They also know I will be there for no more that 2 beers, and then it is a salida with one of my favoritas or someone new.

I also frequent Marcella, and have used Misses in the past. Both managers know me by sight.

One of my favorite chicas moved from El Infinito to Infi when it opened recently. Her Infinito name was Jazmin, a small blond spinner with large for her size breasts. Her Infi name is Brazil. She has light brown hair now, cut short, but wears a fall. Otherwise she looks as hot as ever.

One of my favorites is a tall thin brunette who recently went to Tijuana to work in a better club. She just returned to visit, and we have hooked up for this afternoon. Her Infinito name was Ivon. You will see her in Infinitos tonight after I am finished with her.

I say all of this only to give some credability for what I am going to say next.

Monterry is not more dangerous to normal people, just unsettled. Most of the violence reported is gang vs gang, or gang vs police.

Monterrey is still safe for people like you and I. Unless you are a member of one of the police units, are a member of a gang, are trying to take over someones turf, or have a suitcase full of money to buy drugs, you are just as safe as you have ever been. Here is what I tell those who accompany me on some of my trips to help them feel comfortable in an unsettled environment.

*Don't dress like a gang member.

*Don't dress like a banker or politition.

*Stay in a nice mid price locally owned hotel instead of one of the luxury hotels.

*Take taxis everywhere.

*Go out on the town with someone familiar with Monterrey.

This advise seems to make them feel more comfortable. I know that Monterrey is as safe for me as it has always been, but part of my job is to make our clients feel safe also.

I realize all this is just my opinion, and that other peoples opinions are their reality, but I felt I had to comment to combat some of the overblown hype I have seen posted here recently.

Larbo

[Member #3453]

I have been comming to Monterrey 12-18 times per year for almost 8 years now. The company I work for has three major suppliers here which I visit regularly.

I have lurked on this site for most of those years, and I thank all the senior members I have gleaned valuable information from. I have the zona central committed to memory thanks to the excellent mongers map so generously supplied by a senior member.

I am a regular at El Infinito as I am there 4-6 nights in a row on every trip. The manager knows me well, and most of the waiters know my favorite table and what beer I drink. They also know I will be there for no more that 2 beers, and then it is a salida with one of my favoritas or someone new.

I also frequent Marcella, and have used Misses in the past. Both managers know me by sight.

One of my favorite chicas moved from El Infinito to Infi when it opened recently. Her Infinito name was Jazmin, a small blond spinner with large for her size breasts. Her Infi name is Brazil. She has light brown hair now, cut short, but wears a fall. Otherwise she looks as hot as ever.

One of my favorites is a tall thin brunette who recently went to Tijuana to work in a better club. She just returned to visit, and we have hooked up for this afternoon. Her Infinito name was Ivon. You will see her in Infinitos tonight after I am finished with her.

I say all of this only to give some credability for what I am going to say next.

Monterry is not more dangerous to normal people, just unsettled. Most of the violence reported is gang vs gang, or gang vs police.

Monterrey is still safe for people like you and I. Unless you are a member of one of the police units, are a member of a gang, are trying to take over someones turf, or have a suitcase full of money to buy drugs, you are just as safe as you have ever been. Here is what I tell those who accompany me on some of my trips to help them feel comfortable in an unsettled environment.

*Don't dress like a gang member.

*Don't dress like a banker or politition.

*Stay in a nice mid price locally owned hotel instead of one of the luxury hotels.

*Take taxis everywhere.

*Go out on the town with someone familiar with Monterrey.

This advise seems to make them feel more comfortable. I know that Monterrey is as safe for me as it has always been, but part of my job is to make our clients feel safe also.

I realize all this is just my opinion, and that other peoples opinions are their reality, but I felt I had to comment to combat some of the overblown hype I have seen posted here recently.

LarboYour post was dead-on. I will add just a few things to your list:

*Sit in the back seat of the cab at all times, unless you know the driver well. You will have better control of circumstances should you hail a taxi driver that has robbery, or worse, on his mind. From the back seat, if they take off in the wrong direction, and you begin to realize they're placing you in danger, you can choke them out if need be. This scenario is NOT common with taxis. 99% are safe. It has only happened to me once. But, once was too much for me, and I have adopted this practice, especially now since the petty criminals run around with less scrutiny from authorities because the authorities have bigger fish to fry these days.

*Moneda: Collect a bag of coins that you can use for exact change with taxis, or keep a supply of 20 peso bills handy. There are far too many taxis that do not carry sufficient change. Anything over 50 pesos is too large a bill for many of them to deal with.

*If you're planning to come back to Monterrey often, purchase a Mexico phone, and charge it with some saldo (minutes) , so you can send and receive text messages from the girls. That way, you control the information that passes between you and the girl, but you're true identity, and your legitimate phone numbers, are kept secret from the girls, totally separated from your real life.

*Assume an alias when you fraternize with the girls. Keep everything in your personal life separate from what you're doing in Monterrey. Everyone will think they know who they're dealing with, but they really haven't got a clue.

*At your first opportunity after arriving in Monterrey, make an effort to visit a money changer so you can have a selection of lower denomination bills. I recommend that you not have bills that are over the 200 peso denomination in your possession when visiting the bars, and that you preferably pay with bills using the lowest common denominator bills possible. I always make the effort to have a bunch of 20 peso bills (saving them for taxi fare) , and some 50 peso, 100 peso, and 200 peso bills are reserved for the bars, with the 100 peso bill seeming to be the safest denomination with respect to your not getting cheated by the waiters when they bring you your change.

*If you're a relative newbie in Monterrey, do not run a tab, unless you're with an experienced resident of Monterrey who is already well known to the management, and can discern the little attempts at larceny by the waiters. Always pay for the drinks as your order them.

*If you ignore the advice to pay as you go, and you do run a tab, make the waiter repeat back every single charge rather than just showing you a total. They love to come to your dark table, and using a flash light to illuminate a total amount, with no itemized charges being represented on the tab. Even my trustee waiters are famous for just showing total amounts, and spending very little time on the exact charges. About 60% of the time, on those rare occasions that I do run a tab, the bill is "mistakenly" inflated, and I would have paid too much.

* Preferably, exact change, la cuenta + propina, is the best policy when paying for drinks. But, if you can't pay with exact change, especially when you're alone, make a special effort to call attention to the denomination of the bill you're handing to the waiter. I recommend calling very specific attention to the denomination of the bill you're handing the waiter, and making them repeat it back to you before they go off for change. They love to pull the old switcharoo...200 peso bill becomes a 20 peso bill in the blink of an eye.

[MonterreyDude]

Let me add just one thing on this: "If you're a relative newbie in Monterrey, do not run a tab"

That only depends on what clubs you are visiting.

Only the mid to lower clubs accept paying per round.

If you go to hoigh end clubs starting Poisson up into Obsession, Premiere, Prestige, Amnesia. The tab is automatic.

As a matter of fact if you do not run a tab, they will not serve you.

On this thing, you have to run a parallel tab in your head, trying to keep count of all drinks being serve to you and to the girls cause they will try to sneak a drink or 2 between rounds.


Your post was dead-on. I will add just a few things to your list:

*Sit in the back seat of the cab at all times, unless you know the driver well. You will have better control of circumstances should you hail a taxi driver that has robbery, or worse, on his mind. From the back seat, if they take off in the wrong direction, and you begin to realize they're placing you in danger, you can choke them out if need be. This scenario is NOT common with taxis. 99% are safe. It has only happened to me once. But, once was too much for me, and I have adopted this practice, especially now since the petty criminals run around with less scrutiny from authorities because the authorities have bigger fish to fry these days.

*Moneda: Collect a bag of coins that you can use for exact change with taxis, or keep a supply of 20 peso bills handy. There are far too many taxis that do not carry sufficient change. Anything over 50 pesos is too large a bill for many of them to deal with.

*If you're planning to come back to Monterrey often, purchase a Mexico phone, and charge it with some saldo (minutes) , so you can send and receive text messages from the girls. That way, you control the information that passes between you and the girl, but you're true identity, and your legitimate phone numbers, are kept secret from the girls, totally separated from your real life.

*Assume an alias when you fraternize with the girls. Keep everything in your personal life separate from what you're doing in Monterrey. Everyone will think they know who they're dealing with, but they really haven't got a clue.

*At your first opportunity after arriving in Monterrey, make an effort to visit a money changer so you can have a selection of lower denomination bills. I recommend that you not have bills that are over the 200 peso denomination in your possession when visiting the bars, and that you preferably pay with bills using the lowest common denominator bills possible. I always make the effort to have a bunch of 20 peso bills (saving them for taxi fare) , and some 50 peso. 100 peso, and 200 peso bills are reserved for the bars, with the 100 peso bill seeming to be the safest denomination with respect to your not getting cheated by the waiters when they bring you your change.

*If you're a relative newbie in Monterrey, do not run a tab, unless you're with an experienced resident of Monterrey who is already well known to the management, and can discern the little attempts at larceny by the waiters. Always pay for the drinks as your order them.

*If you ignore the advice to pay as you go, and you do run a tab, make the waiter repeat back every single charge rather than just showing you a total. They love to come to your dark table, and using a flash light to illuminate a total amount, with no itemized charges being represented on the tab. Even my trustee waiters are famous for just showing total amounts, and spending very little time on the exact charges. About 60% of the time, on those rare occasions that I do run a tab, the bill is "mistakenly" inflated, and I would have paid too much.

* Preferably, exact change, la cuenta + propina, is the best policy when paying for drinks. But, if you can't pay with exact change, especially when you're alone, make a special effort to call attention to the denomination of the bill you're handing to the waiter. I recommend calling very specific attention to the denomination of the bill you're handing the waiter, and making them repeat it back to you before they go off for change. They love to pull the old switcharoo. 200 peso bill becomes a 20 peso bill in the blink of an eye.

[Member #3453]

Let me add just one thing on this: "If you're a relative newbie in Monterrey, do not run a tab"

That only depends on what clubs you are visiting.

Only the mid to lower clubs accept paying per round.

If you go to hoigh end clubs starting Poisson up into Obsession, Premiere, Prestige, Amnesia. The tab is automatic.

As a matter of fact if you do not run a tab, they will not serve you.

On this thing, you have to run a parallel tab in your head, trying to keep count of all drinks being serve to you and to the girls cause they will try to sneak a drink or 2 between rounds. Granted. Yes, that's an important point. I virtually NEVER frequent the high end clubs, especially at night. I only attend the high end clubs, specifically Prestige and Obsession, for their lunch buffets. So, I never really push against the policy of their requiring that patrons run a tab. I am usually with you at lunch anyway, and you do a nice job of keeping them honest. So, I don't usually pay close attention to the waiters at Prestige and Obsession. But, even with you watching their every move, they frequently attempt to slip something past us probably 30 percent of the time.

The higher end clubs have an environment where it seems appropriate to insist on our running a tab. Obviously, they have us running tabs because it sets up a scenario where we are likely to buy more drinks and lose track of how much we're spending. But, it also sometimes serves to confuse us sufficiently that the waiters can have a better shot at screwing us over. Their encouraging us to run a tab is followed no matter whether you are sitting in a high end bar or a medium level bar. Fact is, the same companies sometimes simultaneously own certain high end and medium level bars. So, the waiters are encouraged to run customer tabs as part of company policy, especially in those bars whose owners have bars in all the market segments because they know it can really enhance their bottom line.

In the medium level bars, I get the same push to run a tab. Their strategy is the same as in the high end bars. The waiters are always visibly opposed to my paying as I go in the medium level bars. But, I always insist on it even when I can tell they are put off by it. It puts them at a very definite disadvantage with respect their finding an opportunity to slip a drink or two onto the tab. I find that paying as I go keeps me in control, and it significantly curtails their attempts to inflate the bill. But, I can understand that even the honest ones would rather you run a tab because tips are better if they run a tab. If you're paying as you go, they know their tips will not be as high as if you pay the bottom line on a tab. I frequently give the waiters a good tip on the first drink, and often start cutting them slightly back on the repeat orders. So, I know I save myself a little money on tips by paying as I go.

Another thing too. If you are paying as you go, and they know their tips will be slightly curtailed with repeat drinks, they seem to leave you alone a little more than if you're running a tab. They like running up tabs, and they'll bother you a lot more. But, if you pay as you go it's more work for them to have to settle up after each reorder. Waiters don't like to WORK, and they especially don't like to work for less. So...

[Sound7]

The typical bill is huge and includes a clube entrance charge. The charges are not clear even in english.

Tipping order suggestion makes sence as a good PR.


Granted. Yes, that's an important point. I virtually NEVER frequent the high end clubs, especially at night. I only attend the high end clubs, specifically Prestige and Obsession, for their lunch buffets. So, I never really push against the policy of their requiring that patrons run a tab. I am usually with you at lunch anyway, and you do a nice job of keeping them honest. So, I don't usually pay close attention to the waiters at Prestige and Obsession. But, even with you watching their every move, they frequently attempt to slip something past us probably 30 percent of the time.

The higher end clubs have an environment where it seems appropriate to insist on our running a tab. Obviously, they have us running tabs because it sets up a scenario where we are likely to buy more drinks and lose track of how much we're spending. But, it also sometimes serves to confuse us sufficiently that the waiters can have a better shot at screwing us over. Their encouraging us to run a tab is followed no matter whether you are sitting in a high end bar or a medium level bar. Fact is, the same companies sometimes simultaneously own certain high end and medium level bars. So, the waiters are encouraged to run customer tabs as part of company policy, especially in those bars whose owners have bars in all the market segments because they know it can really enhance their bottom line.

In the medium level bars, I get the same push to run a tab. Their strategy is the same as in the high end bars. The waiters are always visibly opposed to my paying as I go in the medium level bars. But, I always insist on it even when I can tell they are put off by it. It puts them at a very definite disadvantage with respect their finding an opportunity to slip a drink or two onto the tab. I find that paying as I go keeps me in control, and it significantly curtails their attempts to inflate the bill. But, I can understand that even the honest ones would rather you run a tab because tips are better if they run a tab. If you're paying as you go, they know their tips will not be as high as if you pay the bottom line on a tab. I frequently give the waiters a good tip on the first drink, and often start cutting them slightly back on the repeat orders. So, I know I save myself a little money on tips by paying as I go.

Another thing too. If you are paying as you go, and they know their tips will be slightly curtailed with repeat drinks, they seem to leave you alone a little more than if you're running a tab. They like running up tabs, and they'll bother you a lot more. But, if you pay as you go it's more work for them to have to settle up after each reorder. Waiters don't like to WORK, and they especially don't like to work for less. So.

[Member #3453]

Granted. Yes, that's an important point. I virtually NEVER frequent the high end clubs, especially at night. I only attend the high end clubs, specifically Prestige and Obsession, for their lunch buffets. So, I never really push against the policy of their requiring that patrons run a tab. I am usually with you at lunch anyway, and you do a nice job of keeping them honest. So, I don't usually pay close attention to the waiters at Prestige and Obsession. But, even with you watching their every move, they frequently attempt to slip something past us probably 30 percent of the time.

The higher end clubs have an environment where it seems appropriate to insist on our running a tab. Obviously, they have us running tabs because it sets up a scenario where we are likely to buy more drinks and lose track of how much we're spending. But, it also sometimes serves to confuse us sufficiently that the waiters can have a better shot at screwing us over. Their encouraging us to run a tab is followed no matter whether you are sitting in a high end bar or a medium level bar. Fact is, the same companies sometimes simultaneously own certain high end and medium level bars. So, the waiters are encouraged to run customer tabs as part of company policy, especially in those bars whose owners have bars in all the market segments because they know it can really enhance their bottom line.

In the medium level bars, I get the same push to run a tab. Their strategy is the same as in the high end bars. The waiters are always visibly opposed to my paying as I go in the medium level bars. But, I always insist on it even when I can tell they are put off by it. It puts them at a very definite disadvantage with respect their finding an opportunity to slip a drink or two onto the tab. I find that paying as I go keeps me in control, and it significantly curtails their attempts to inflate the bill. But, I can understand that even the honest ones would rather you run a tab because tips are better if they run a tab. If you're paying as you go, they know their tips will not be as high as if you pay the bottom line on a tab. I frequently give the waiters a good tip on the first drink, and often start cutting them slightly back on the repeat orders. So, I know I save myself a little money on tips by paying as I go.

Another thing too. If you are paying as you go, and they know their tips will be slightly curtailed with repeat drinks, they seem to leave you alone a little more than if you're running a tab. They like running up tabs, and they'll bother you a lot more. But, if you pay as you go it's more work for them to have to settle up after each reorder. Waiters don't like to WORK, and they especially don't like to work for less. So.

Just a follow-up to this last post. And to elaborate on something I notice about the attitude of the waiters that always kind of surprises me when I am paying as I go, and paying tips accordingly. This scenario comes to mind specifically with respect to the bar Pasarelas, but it works in others of them too, Azul Tequilla, Parthenon, Tango, maybe slightly less at Casino. As I mentioned, when I do pay them as I go, and tip them accordingly with a tip paid on the first round, usually giving them about 15% of the round as a Propina, they seem quite satisfied with that as an all encompassing propina for second round drinks.

I am always surprised that as I order the next rounds, the waiters seem to have little or no expectation for another tip on the second round, even though it would seem they would be entitled to it. There are times that I do tip them for the second and third round service, and there are times that I do not, often skipping paying tips between the first and second round, and then paying a tip again on the third round, usually one that amounts to less than 10% of the round.

On those times that I have not paid them a tip on second rounds, I notice something about their expectation for a tip that surprises me. You can always easily sense the expectation of waiters, their body language, they're waiting around for a tip, etc. It always seems that once I have tipped them well for the first round, their demeanor seems to be accepting that the first round tip was adequate to cover their service on the second round. They don't display any body language suggesting that they expect anything more on second round, and sometimes even with respect to the third rounds. They will, of course, accept more in the way of tips, but they are not expecting them if I pay a good tip on the first round. I try to take care of the waiters, but there are many occasions where I am preoccupied with the girls, and skip giving the waiters a follow-up tip on some subsequent rounds.

The important benefit to paying the tip on the first round with pay as you go, is that the waiters seem to lose their motivation to bother you for additional drinks compared to running a tab. In addition, you can eliminate their opportunity to scam you by paying exact change on the second round, and save money by omitting the tip.

They don't hang around as much being pains in the ass. I suspect it's because they are not motivated to push more drinks as much because they have already received a good tip on the first round, knowing that they may not receive a tip on the second round. I sometimes do tip on the second round, but most of the time I do not, and they know it. When, and if the third round rolls around, which is rare for me, I don't typically buy three rounds for the same girl...But, if opting for a third round, I usually do start the process over again, and tip them, usually around 10% or slightly under the acceptable average.

With pay as you go, and paying good tips on the first round, you can keep them guessing, and they'll usually leave you alone more than if you're running a tab. This whole scenario works if they know you already, and they know your routine, as they do mine. They are accepting of my spotty tipping because they know that I do typically take care of them on average, and that I usually give them relatively good tips overall. But, with pay as you go, they work much harder, running to get change each time, etc...Most of them don't have the energy or motivation to be their customary pains in the ass if they have to work harder for it, and if you remove their opportunity to scam you by paying as you go.

[MonterreyDude]

Exactly.

You must always be on guard. Even as a local I need to be wary of the tab,

And yes, tip.

10-15% is the correct amount.


The typical bill is huge and includes a clube entrance charge. The charges are not clear even in english.

Tipping order suggestion makes sence as a good PR.

[Member #3453]

"...I avise you and anyone here do not be violent in Monterrey..."

I almost fell off my chair laughing at that!!! :-)))

I recommended putting ourselves in a position to fight back were we to be abducted by a taxi...That is very different than picking a fight, or being "antagonistic."

I suspect some here are so prejudiced against "us," we Gringos, that they would prefer seeing us end up in a mass grave on the outskirts of Monterrey, rather than see us fight back when confronted. The ridiculous accusation that my making a recommendation to enhance our safety, or the idea that someone being abducted by a taxi, is the "antagonista" in Mexico is laughable. Any that actually know me would find those comments that I am the antagonist totally ludicrous.

So, I suspect these posts that warn us to stay away, are more likely rooted in prejudice against all foreign visitors, especially Gringos, and doubly so with respect those coming to Monterrey to visit girls. The agenda behind these "warnings," the attempts to intimidate, the attempts to extort those that have commented here for a decade with legitimate reports and advice, is meant to squash the truth, promote the private interests of the real "antagonists," in order to promote their websites, and to maintain an atmosphere of violence in Mexico, thereby permitting them to more easily profit from it.

I suspect Jackson, the owner of the site, would take exception to that being the purpose of these continuous "Warnings" that we're constantly subjected to, along with the promotion of select websites. I think that Jackson would especially be interested in understanding that the warnings are intended to discourage the exact purpose for which this site was intended. These attempts are most assuredly violations of the rules of the ISG, and grounds for being banned from this site.

By the way, it must also be reiterated, that my making these safety recommendations should in no way be construed as a validation of the hysterical accusations that Monterrey is so violent that none should visit. So, once again, along with the rest of us that know what is and isn't BS, I refute any claims that Monterrey as so dangerous and violent that none should visit.

As for whether some dubious, anonymous "locals," construe me to be "antagonistic," I could not care less... Having a personal opinion, and expressing it in a polite way, is only "antagonistic" to those that have their own self serving agenda that is contrary to the purpose of this site. There are only a few, but far too many, dubious members here that seek to silence those of us that know what is contrary to the truth, and wish to intimidate us into silence.

Fighting back with "reasonable force," when one is victimized by the losers we sometimes encounter in the course of our visits to Monterrey, is simply called "SELF DEFENSE." I engage in various, reasonable levels of self defense all the time, and I will continue to do so, whether I'm targeted for little minor scams, or whether someone is trying to physically harm me.

[Member #3453]

"You go to the Villagran clubs on Friday or Saturday and sometime only four or five girls working."

Hahaha. Comon'.

Maybe that's because the other 50 girls are in the privados while whoever told you that was playing with his pud on the main floor. :-0

[Member #3453]

"El Sol paper do a report that show the business in El Centro and Barrio Antigua is down 30. 40 percentage from 2009. The also interview youths that say theyt don't go no more because of the danger."

Promoters of these websites here on ISG, the websites themselves, the newspapers, and other media outlets that dwell on perpetuating the "fear," are aiding and abetting the terrorists (ie: the cartels) by "spreading" the fear.

The reality is, as Larbo wrote so eloquently,

"Monterrey is still safe for people like you and I. Unless you are a member of one of the police units, are a member of a gang, are trying to take over someones turf, or have a suitcase full of money to buy drugs, you are just as safe as you have ever been." That is the truest reality. No agenda.

Why is business down in El Centro and Barrio Antiqua?

Because some individuals within the media, especially those that run, and actively seek to promote, these Narco forums, profit by hyping the violence. These media outlets profit at the detriment of Mexican businesses, tourism, and the total economy of Mexico.

The cartels are engaged in attempts to literally overthrow the Government of Mexico in order to remove the Mexican Government's interference in their sovereign control of the drug industry. This makes the Cartels traitors to Mexico. Were they opposing the government of Mexico for political reasons, one could argue that they do so because they believe themselves to be "patriots," opposing their government for what they perceive as being the greater good. But, because their motivations are strictly profits from criminal acts, and because they are willing to oppose their government for criminal profits, they are traitors, just as certainly as if they were selling State Secrets to enemies of the Mexican people.

But, because they oppose the government strictly with the intention to profit from an illegal industry that preys upon the citizens of Mexico, the Cartels simply have no defensible justification for their activities. That's why I call them traitors to Mexico, because they are willing to turn their backs on their own country for personal profit.

Therefore, if the cartels are traitors to Mexico, are not those that support their attempts to terrorize the public at large, in an effort to destabilize the government of Mexico, not also traitors to Mexico?

Some media outlets do not merely report the news, but are focused on sensationalizing these incidents for profit motives. These websites that El Cazador, and others, like to promote on the ISG are engaged in perpetuating this fear, which indirectly supports the goals and objectives of the cartels.

Anyone that hypes the acts of the cartels, or supports media outlets that engage in promoting these acts as their primary objective, especially for personal profit motives, are traitors to Mexico. They are as indirectly guilty as the terrorists themselves because they are complicit with the cartels in perpetuating the effects of the Cartel's terrible acts upon the public. The effects of these acts upon the public, and upon the government of Mexico, is the purpose of the terrible acts to begin with. The terrible acts, and their promotion on these foros that El Cazador mentioned, serves to destabilize the government of Mexico, ruin Mexican businesses, and further enable the goals and objectives of the drug industry, which is a scourge upon our society as a whole regardless of which country we're discussing.

If business is down 40% in Bario Antigua, the hyping of the terrible acts is having the exact effect upon Mexican society that the traitors desire. This is why the wise advocate opposition to changing their "free" lifestyle, why the wise oppose negotiating with terrorists, etc...If you allow the acts of the terrorists to effect your lifestyle, you enable their tyranny to take hold, and you relinquish your freedom.

Those that are engaged in indirectly supporting the goals and objectives of the cartels through hyping their terrorists acts, and/or those that are so self righteous as to criticize mongers for their acts while simultaneously, perhaps even unwittingly, supporting the goals and objectives of the Cartels, should take a very hard look in the mirror before they advocate patronage of these offending media outlets.

These foros that El Cazador mentions are traitors to Mexico, they support an industry through their own acts that far exceed the theoretical immoral acts that a handful of mongers might have upon the whole of Mexican society.

In contrast, how many mongers are engaged in aiding and abetting murder, such as is the case with the foros El Cazador mentions, or further enabling the goals of the drug cartels through promotion of the detrimental effects of their terrorism upon the public, and the government of Mexico? The answer is NONE...

Pay no attention to these media outlets that seek to distort the big picture in Monterrey, and are complicit with the drug Cartels in their terrorist, traitorous acts. Their agenda is quite clear to those of us that know what the true level of danger is to the average visitor.

[El Cazador]

Unspongebob.

So you want continue with your antagonista behavior with your bad words. And because some of us here try to inform others the dangers of Monterrey and you don't agree you talk down to us and tell the moderator to ban us. It is obvious you don't live here and not able to acess tv or paper news in Monterrey on a everyday basis. I will tell people what has happen this week in monterrey that I see on Monday to Wednesday as I'm busy and don't watch news on Thursday.

They steal over 600 cars since the new year and probably to make the road bloques in the future. The monterrey police have set up checkpoints and ask for I'd papers to try and find the stolen cars. They have the right to search the car with not your approval.

A school were closed yesterday and 1000 students sent home because of gun battle.

9 people die Wednesday in addition to 10 people on Tuesday.

They find another dead body on madero street close to villagran. 2 men die living azul tequila strip club three months ago.

A local casino is held up by gunmen.

A starbucks is held by gunmen robbing the store and victims.

The plaza arco on madero is shot up by gunmen try to kill the military staying there.

The valle oriente mall close down today the parking because of robberies and car thefts.

You don't live here and it is offending a american try to act like a expert when anybody that live here know the truth the dangers of monterrey. You come here once every three, four months for the weekend does not make you expert.

[El Cazador]

I had a new girl take my cell phone off my dresser a couple of months ago. I should have known to keep my eye on her. I just dropped my guard. But, in the end, it all worked out. I was 300 pesos poorer, but it was worth every penny to recover an expensive smart phone with all my stuff in it, etc.

I just went back to the bar, told the manager, and offered 300 pesos as a reward for an immediate recovery. I am considered a very good customer, and there was no hesitation in their believing me, or in their moving forward with a recovery.

That is one of the upsides to taking girls from the bars. These managers and waiters get really used to the little propinas they receive, and they drop everything for a regular, paying customer, which I am. They will bend over backwards to keep you happy and make things right, if you're in the right. They don't want to lose their future opportunities for propinas, so they're always very attentive.

It was kind of funny. The bouncers all flocked up upstairs, where all of the girls keep their stuff, and they dumped out a bunch of purses, not just the purse of the girl in question. They ended up with about ten cell phones. They displayed them all to me like they were a deck of cards, and asked me which was mine. I immediately plucked it up out of the pile, showed them that everything was displayed on the phone in Ingles, and that it was indeed mine, paid them their 300 peso ransom, and was on my way.

But, the girl was very angry with me, throwing a big tantrum right there in the bar, trying to represent to all that would listen that I had given it to her. Yeah, right. A $500US smart phone? The manager and the bouncers didn't buy it either, not that it mattered, the 300 pesos was all that mattered to them, and that I was satisfied of course, and I was.

Normally, I would recommend striking that girl from my list of eligible contestants. But, she was actually a pretty good girl in every other way, aside from "OUR" little "incident" as she now describes it.)

A few weeks later, I took her out again, after making up with her in the bar. I nailed everything down in the room, and we had a great time..) But, as it turns out, I don't have to nail down everything now. Now, I don't have to worry too much about her. I keep my eye on her a little bit. But, I think she learned her lesson.

My biggest complaint about girls that are so new to the business is their lack of patience, and their lack of business acumen. Some of these girls are just not that smart about things. Some take longer to realize that you may be worth a lot more to them over time than a silly cell phone. A LOT MORE! I am guilty of forgetting just how short sighted some of these new girls can be. I should know better, and do. But, I just dropped my guard.

So, your warning about crimes of opportunity, and dropping your guard, even with respect to crimes that are not particularly dangerous to us, but are still bothersome and aggravating none the less, is a timely one. This is what I am talking about you are antagonista. The girl haveno respect for you and steal your phone so you go back to the club and have all the other girls belongings in there purses reveal also to find your phone. Now everbody in the club know your a fool and the girls are angry becuase all there personal items are exposed because of you. I read four other times the girls steal from you. I tell you that no girls steal from me or my friends or any othes on the monterrey foros. Also, you come visit three or four times a year for a weekend does not make you a regular. You just another customer.

[Member #3453]

With all your warnings, you have not commented on one single solitary tidbit of mongering information or advise. You have contributed nothing of substance to the forum, other than to pander to the goals and objectives of the Cartels, namely to hype the effects of their attempts to terrorize. What else are we to think of your motives when you contribute nothing more?

On the other hand, I have relayed countless reports of my mongering experiences in Monterrey, otherwise you would be clueless about the stolen cell phone incident, and/or any of the other minor negative, or positive, experiences I may have had. I revealed my direct mongering experiences to the forum for the protection of other mongers that choose to go on salida. I have made contributions of substance that relate to mongering, and the purpose of this forum. You, on the other hand, are totally consumed by discouraging us from mongering. What else are we expected to think of your motives?

I doubt you have ever taken one single solitary girl on salida. Otherwise, why would you not have felt an obligation to convey the details of your experiences to the forum membership before now?

Had you ever taken girls on salida, you would realize that when taking girls out of the bars you always run a slight risk of being victimized by them with respect to petty larceny, disappointing performance, reduced time, etc...These girls are from a class that is more often prone to attempt to take advantage when the opportunity arises. They are con-women, rip-off artists, and thieves, in varying degrees, by trade.

I am not naive as to this potential for these kinds of negative experiencing occurring, just careless occasionally with respect to dropping my own guard. It literally has nothing to do with whether they interpret me to be antagonistic, mean, nasty, rude, callous, nice, or anything in between. It is more a matter of their being willing to take advantage of anyone and everyone when the opportunity arises.

Anyone that knows anything about mongering, knows this. But, your jumping to conclusions that I am to blame for the low class behavior of these bar girls reveals your own naivete with respect to mongering. My being victimized by this class of person only serves to reveal that you're virtually clueless and totally inexperienced with respect to having engaged in mongering activities.

I also point out that I did not personally order the bouncers to search through the girl's belongings. It was not a specific search of all the girls purses that I requested. I merely offered a reward for the recovery of my property. The bouncer's means of recovery was entirely up to them. They chose the most effective means available to them. I'm sure they took the character of the bar girls in general fully into account before deciding on their strategy, knowing that most of them could not be trusted any further than they could throw them, and literally not really caring whether the girl was embarrassed, angry, in denial, etc...Frankly, I didn't really care how they recovered "MY PROPERTY" either. Besides, the bouncers, the waiters, and the bar girls are all birds of the same feather...get it, "birds of the same feather flock together." The bouncers were best equipped to deal with the situation, and they did so according to their own code of conduct within the class that they all ascribe to.

As for the other girls in the bar having any anger toward me for having recovered my own property, I suppose that's why they still beg me quite regularly to take them on salida every time I see them. And, frankly, there is one nice side note to their having witnessed this little incident with the stolen cell phone. It puts every single one of them on notice that while I may have dropped my guard with one of them, I will ultimately prevail in the end, and that I have no hesitancy about protecting myself, or setting things straight, at their expense, should they themselves attempt to consider victimizing me. Let them think they will suffer the same result were they to engage in the same kind of behavior. I am fine with that.

There are others of us that post here that are living in Monterrey, as well as a number of regular contributors that visit often from the US, that have considerable experience visiting Monterrey for many years. I am not the only one here that has disputed your hysterical rant concerning the supposed dangers of visiting Monterrey.

In one of your last posts you suggested there are much better places to Monger than Monterrey. Do these other destinations compare with Monterrey with respect to cost, travel time from the USA, quality of experience, etc? If so, please name them, and detail the range of your experience in those destinations. I would love to hear the range of your experience, and just exactly where the better destinations are located, places that one can visit that are as inexpensive, close to the USA with respect to travel time, etc.

I disagree with your assessment of things, and I firmly dispute your claims in order to set the record straight. I could just as easily accuse you of being the true "antagonista" since you seem equally motivated to discourage all mongers from visiting Monterrey based soley on things you're reading on blogs that could just as easily be the creation of the drug cartels to further the effects of their terrorism upon the public.

I wonder, do you also discourage we mongers from calling up our escorts? I mean, we don't have to go to El Centro, or expose ourselves to any danger when calling upon our escorts.

What about all the residents of Monterrey that have no choice but to live in Monterrey, work in Monterrey, raise families in Monterrey, all FIVE MILLION of them?

Are you going to advocate that they not monger as well?

Do you advise them to do a mass exodus because Blog Narco, or one of your other websites, say that they are all in danger of being murdered?

If they can live here, I can live here. And, if all FIVE MILLION can live here, an occasional visitor can quite easily visit Monterrey to monger and survive. NO SWEAT! That is not my being antagonistic...it is merely the truth!!!

[Member #3453]

If you are considering a visit to Monterrey, you can watch local TV channel 12 via streaming video from the US at: http://www.multimedios.tv/.

If visitors that are considering a trip to Monterrey would like to watch the newscasts, they can check the live newscasts, which start at 6:00 am Central time.

I also read Milenio newspaper, which all visitors can read before coming to Monterrey: http://www.milenio.com

They do not need the Blog Narco, Border Land Beat, or any of these other crime beat BS websites. They are shills of the Cartels, ones whose sole purpose is to hype the terrorism effects upon the public, and benefit the Cartels by instilling fear over the heinous acts of the Cartels, acts that are intended to be especially heinous in order to terrorize the public, and destabilize the government. Some of these blogs like Blog Narco, and Borderland are instrumental in spreading the hype. Some, like Apache Goucho, are just a bunch of snot nosed teens with excessive time on their hands and computer keyboards.

You can discern the immaturity of the contributors quite easily, and you can make your own assessment...

Some here on ISG are now intent on promoting these sites. I doubt their motives, not only because I doubt the veracity of these websites, and their true motivations, but also because I live here, and I realize that the dangers that some are continually warning us about are not as they are representing them to be. I also recognize the that there is a origin of immaturity in the way these sites are presented.

The best proof you have that I DO know what I am talking about with respect to the extent of the risk here is that I realize the content of these sites is bogus, and YOU CAN NOT BULLSHIT ME! I DO LIVE HERE!!!

There are dangers, but they simply are not as you've seen them represented by these shills in their self serving attempts at promotion of their privately owned websites, and their total and complete lack of contribution with respect to their actual mongering experiences.

The victims of crime in Monterrey are primarily drug on drug dealers, crimes against the police and the government, crimes committed between known associates, and petty larceny.

Crimes committed that are unrelated to the drug business, robbery, stolen vehicles, etc...are no worse than the crime statistics in Chicago.

If you are aware of your surroundings, and you are careful with respect to how you conduct yourself in Monterrey, ie: remain alert and sober as you monger about, you will have no problems, and your risk will be very, very minimal.

[Larbo]

If you are considering a visit to Monterrey, you can watch local TV channel 12 via streaming video from the US at:

http://www.multimedios.tv/

If visitors that are considering a trip to Monterrey would like to watch the newscasts, they can check the live newscasts, which start at 6:00 am Central time.

I also read Milenio newspaper, which all visitors can read before coming to Monterrey:

http://www.milenio.com

They do not need the Blog Narco, Border Land Beat, or any of these other crime beat BS websites. They are shills of the Cartels, ones whose sole purpose is to hype the terrorism effects upon the public, and benefit the Cartels by instilling fear over the heinous acts of the Cartels, acts that are intended to be especially heinous in order to terrorize the public, and destabilize the government. Some of these blogs like Blog Narco, and Borderland are instrumental in spreading the hype. Some, like Apache Goucho, are just a bunch of snot nosed teens with excessive time on their hands and computer keyboards.

You can discern the immaturity of the contributors quite easily, and you can make your own assessment.

Some here on ISG are now intent on promoting these sites. I doubt their motives, not only because I doubt the veracity of these websites, and their true motivations, but also because I live here, and I realize that the dangers that some are continually warning us about are not as they are representing them to be. I also recognize the that there is a origin of immaturity in the way these sites are presented.

The best proof you have that I DO know what I am talking about with respect to the extent of the risk here is that I realize the content of these sites is bogus, and YOU CAN NOT BULLSHIT ME! I DO LIVE HERE!

There are dangers, but they simply are not as you've seen them represented by these shills in their self serving attempts at promotion of their privately owned websites, and their total and complete lack of contribution with respect to their actual mongering experiences.

The victims of crime in Monterrey are primarily drug on drug dealers, crimes against the police and the government, crimes committed between known associates, and petty larceny.

Crimes committed that are unrelated to the drug business, robbery, stolen vehicles, etc. Are no worse than the crime statistics in Chicago.

If you are aware of your surroundings, and you are careful with respect to how you conduct yourself in Monterrey, ie: remain alert and sober as you monger about, you will have no problems, and your risk will be very, very minimal.I believe El Cazador is promoting an agenda that is not consistant with the needs and desires of the members for which this site was established. He will not listen to reason, and continues to return to his initial position of how "horrible" the conditions in Monterrey are.

Your post regarding the Monterrey crime issue, El Cazador's continuing rants, and his complete refusal to listen to what we know to be fact, was well written. I suggest you shorten it slightly, and add a short sentence or two at the beginning explaining that this is to be the standard response to all of the El Cazador rants. Then we can all use it regardless of what issue he raises. We simply paste it as a response for the edification of newbies or infrequent readers.

[Member #3453]

I suppose I should not have lumped Apache Gacho into the same category as Blog Narco, etc...The Narco Sites are not really the same focus as the Apache Gacho Site. But, reference was made here to the Plata Escort Site.

Lets just say that I happen to have the means to easily uncover the network, domain information, and the location, for any given IP address in the world, and/or domain name.

This can be beneficial in many ways, from verifying a customer's physical location to tracking a hacker's attempt into our system. But, it also serves to capture information about the server's originating source when there are hacking attempts so we can trace their origins. The information that is captured within the trace log file is typically only intended to be used by support personnel to trace a problem to its source and determine why an error might have occurred in our system. But, I am guilty of taking the intended use of this capability in our system a little further...

I always find it very interesting to track some of these "suspicious" posts on ISG, and determine their origins. I just use it to directly pinpoint the original source of certain posts, even if the source runs through a clandestine server, such as ISGs in Argentina.

Some of these recent posts are originating through the Apache Gacho server in Monterrey. Just a little cyber trivia about where some of these recent comments on ISG are coming from. It's just another reason why I am so often revealing my suspicions, and why I sometimes react with such serious doubt about the veracity of certain posts.

[Member #3453]

I believe El Cazador is promoting an agenda that is not consistant with the needs and desires of the members for which this site was established. He will not listen to reason, and continues to return to his initial position of how "horrible" the conditions in Monterrey are.

Your post regarding the Monterrey crime issue, El Cazador's continuing rants, and his complete refusal to listen to what we know to be fact, was well written. I suggest you shorten it slightly, and add a short sentence or two at the beginning explaining that this is to be the standard response to all of the El Cazador rants. Then we can all use it regardless of what issue he raises. We simply paste it as a response for the edification of newbies or infrequent readers.

I appreciate the suggestion. I suppose the post could be moved to the Reports of Distinction threads so all can read the realities. However, in an effort to demonstrate that my posts are legit, and my motives are made in good faith, I am reluctant to post something now that might be read were things to further deteriorate in Monterrey.

Things have, over the last couple of years, become more dangerous than they once were when we all started to visit Monterrey. I recall when Monterrey was one of the safest cities in Mexico, and it wasn't that long ago. For now, I do not believe that the safety level has deteriorated to the extent that we should stop coming to Monterrey, or that I should move back to the US. But, it is more dangerous than when we first started coming here.

In light of things becoming more dangerous, I have always advocated using just a little more caution, and perhaps paying a little more attention to our routines, knowing that if we do so, we are in very little danger of being victimized.

It is possible that things could deteriorate further to a point where I would not recommend coming to Monterrey, or that I would consider returning to the US to wait it out. But, for now, things in the bars, and things concerning our mongering in Monterrey, are not to the extent that El Cazador has represented. Therefore, I do not endorse his position.

I have no agenda. Were I to decide that things had deteriorated to the extent that I no longer believed it to be sufficiently safe to risk a visit, or to live here, I would say so. The problem I have with these "crime reports" is that the posters produce no reports of having visited clubs, seen escorts, gone on salida, etc. Or, if they do post reports of having visited the clubs, their reports are totally discredited after having been investigated by the membership that does regularly visit the bars.

For example, the bogus report of transvestites in El Infinito, the bogus report of people shot in El Infinito, the bogus bar girl story about gun battles in El Infinito, etc. All the reports like these have been proven to be plants by those that have a sole agenda to discourage visits to Monterrey, and more specifically to force a self righteous change in attitude, through fear, upon we mongers in general. Yet, they produce no substantiated examples of their being any greater danger to patrons in the bars, ones that are uninvolved in the drug business, only that there are increased incidents of crime and violence in their society as a whole. Dugggghhhhh, we all know that, right?

They really provide no evidence that the danger level within the clubs is any more dangerous than it has ever been in the past, only reports of crimes occurring in close proximity to the bars, or crime occurring within the context of the drug war going on in Monterrey these days. Certainly, those incidents suggest a increased level of potential danger compared to a number of years ago, but no more than what you would experience in most major cities with 5 million residents with respect to our own time spent sitting quietly in one of the strip clubs here.

The problem I have with these "speculators" is that they've produced no direct evidence of increased dangers in bars, other than fabricated ones, and my visits to the bars don't reveal any increased danger level compared to many years ago. So, it's quite obvious that because those posters are basing their total assessment of the dangers solely upon what's reported in the Narco Blogs, they really have no direct experience in the bars as mongers, nor do they have any evidence that any incidents are occurring in them.

I happen to personally know that their agenda is to discourage what they perceive as the immoral act of mongering. There is also a racist bias against Gringos within their ranks. They are self righteous zealots with their own brand of morality, and they want to curtail our participation in mongering. And, by hyping our fears, they believe they can achieve their goals.

That's why I pointed out to them that their self righteous brand of morality is apparently just fine with them when they aid and abet the cartels by hyping the effects of the terrorism upon the public at large. The Cartels are engaged in terrorism, and the Narco Blogs are instrumental in spreading the effects of acts that are so heinous that they could be committed for no other reason than to terrorize for effect.

These posters that warn us with not substantiated evidence actually own these Narco blogs directly, and their agenda is to simultaneously promote their business interests in those Blogs, while also satisfying their own self righteous motivations to discourage mongering. I also believe they're are simultaneously, perhaps even subconsciously, satisfying their own racial bias against visitors to Monterrey by discouraging visits by Gringos to their country.

These posters have no problem with being complicit with the Cartels in aiding and abetting murder and mayhem through their promotional sensationalizing of the crimes committed by the cartels, thereby giving comfort and aid to the enemy, but they are morally appalled over the idea of a few free spirited Gringos, and Mexicanos, getting some skirt. Their moral compass is perverted, that's for sure.

That's why I recommended they take a good hard look in the mirror before they continue perpetrating their tactics upon us on account of some perverted superior morality justification.

If they were to post recommendations on protecting one's self while in transit to the bars, or while out on the streets of Monterrey, I would have no argument with them. But, that's not their agenda. Their agenda is to discourage mongering, and to do so through promoting an atmosphere of fear for their own twisted morally perverted motivations, because they resent our having expertise in their country, specifically because we have expertise mongering with Mexican girls in their country, and more accurately because they are racially biased against some of us.

What is really comical is that these dubious posters are accusing me of having no experience in Monterrey, yet I know exactly who they are, I know their agenda, I know where they live, I know their posts are bogus, I know their motivations, I know their tactics, I know their attempts at extortion and intimidation beyond anything that's been revealed here in this forum, etc...Were I not experienced in Monterrey, and were I just a quarterly visitor, visiting only for a few days on the weekend, as they are accusing me of being, would I know all of this about them?

If they would just shut the f*ck up, I would be just as pleased to fade back into the background again, and I would be content at just offering my assistance with logistics, etc...but, they persist in their BS. They accuse me of antagonism, which launches me into these admittedly excessive diatribes, which I always ultimately regret perpetrating on the membership.

The reality is I am always quite perfectly satisfied staying totally silent for weeks on end these days, until legitimate inquiries come in, sincerely only wanting to offer assistance in answering legitimate mongers about their plans to come to Monterrey, perhaps also offering an occasional report on noteworthy things that have happened to me down here. But, they just can't leave it alone. They would love to see me, and others of us that really do know the score, just go away so they could perpetrate their BS on all the unsuspecting Gringo and newbie visitors. They would love having no "antagonistas" to call their bluff.

[El Cazador]

Sure, some are saying guapo, mi angel, mi amor, rico, etc.

And they are thinking "el banco," "el dinero," "los pesos," etc.

Some are thinking "el abuelo," "el hombre muy viejo," such as "A" at Prestige, etc.

And the worst of them are thinking "el mamon." In that, we agree..)

All the more reason to stick with my GF. @la parca.

I try not insulting unspongebob. I am only telling you what I have read in this foro. He admit the women here in monterrey think he is a mamon. In fact, he insult me first by not have respect for my opinions on the security of el centro right now. Nobody in monterrey think el centro in the late night is safe for a gringo that is alone and drinking.

@others.

The bars in colinas are more safe and upscale like american bars. The streets are cantu gomez cross with periferico. There are 6 o 7 bars with in the same corner and some have entrance fee and some no. Your personality and style depend if you like the club or not but the corner have many variety. These clubs are not for salida and if you ask a girl for pay you may have problems with others. These bars are not for old people or gringo mamons.

[Member #3453]

@la parca.

I try not insulting unspongebob. I am only telling you what I have read in this foro. He admit the women here in monterrey think he is a mamon. In fact, he insult me first by not have respect for my opinions on the security of el centro right now. Nobody in monterrey think el centro in the late night is safe for a gringo that is alone and drinking.

@others.

The bars in colinas are more safe and upscale like american bars. The streets are cantu gomez cross with periferico. There are 6 o 7 bars with in the same corner and some have entrance fee and some no. Your personality and style depend if you like the club or not but the corner have many variety. These clubs are not for salida and if you ask a girl for pay you may have problems with others. These bars are not for old people or gringo mamons.It sounds to me that you are talking about regular bars. Are you talking about regular bars where you can dance with the girls. I remember visiting Monterrey and seeing Bar International. There is also the dance bar near El Infinito.

Aren't you talking apples and oranges when you compare a regular bar that has pretty, young girls to a bar with young, sexy strippers that perform sex acts in little cubicles?

I don't think you are talking about the same kind of bars in Colinas that we visit in Monterrey, and report on at the ISG.

Because, if you are talking about bars where the girls perform sex acts, we are all scum of the earth to the girls, and they talk behind our backs all the time. They are mostly interested smiling sexily to your face, and picking your pocket at their first opportunity.

It sounds like this is not the same kind of scenario you're describing in Colinas. Granted, it would be safer in the environment you describe in Colinas, but you aren't likely to get any.

Honestly, I am 25 years old, married, and visit every few months. I lurk on the ISG, and comment infrequently. But, I have no interest in picking up girls from a regular,"American" style bar. I can do that in Houston.

I go to Monterrey to see naked dancing girls prance around on stage, and I like cutting directly to the chase and having them end up in my hotel room in the shortest amount of time possible, and as cheaply as possible.

I don't much care whether they find me young and attractive, or ugly, old, or feeble, as long as I can get in their pants and it doesn't cost too much.

If all I am doing is ensuring my comparative safety by visiting bars in Colinas, then I'll just stay in Houston.

[Member #3453]

It sounds to me that you are talking about regular bars. Are you talking about regular bars where you can dance with the girls. I remember visiting Monterrey and seeing Bar International. There is also the dance bar near El Infinito.

Aren't you talking apples and oranges when you compare a regular bar that has pretty, young girls to a bar with young, sexy strippers that perform sex acts in little cubicles?

I don't think you are talking about the same kind of bars in Colinas that we visit in Monterrey, and report on at the ISG.

Because, if you are talking about bars where the girls perform sex acts, we are all scum of the earth to the girls, and they talk behind our backs all the time. They are mostly interested smiling sexily to your face, and picking your pocket at their first opportunity.

It sounds like this is not the same kind of scenario you're describing in Colinas. Granted, it would be safer in the environment you describe in Colinas, but you aren't likely to get any.

Honestly, I am 25 years old, married, and visit every few months. I lurk on the ISG, and comment infrequently. But, I have no interest in picking up girls from a regular,"American" style bar. I can do that in Houston.

I go to Monterrey to see naked dancing girls prance around on stage, and I like cutting directly to the chase and having them end up in my hotel room in the shortest amount of time possible, and as cheaply as possible.

I don't much care whether they find me young and attractive, or ugly, old, or feeble, as long as I can get in their pants and it doesn't cost too much.

If all I am doing is ensuring my comparative safety by visiting bars in Colinas, then I'll just stay in Houston.If things are not as El Cazador says, and you decide to stay home, what good does that do? I been to Monterrey several times over the last several months, and from what I saw of the bars in Monterrey, it was safe. I don't mean to disrespect El Cazador, but he hasn't backed up anything with actual details. USB says its because he has a destructive agenda. USB has over 1000 posts, and his credibility with other mongers is well established here. I don't see where having a disagreement with someone, and challenging them on what they say is disrespectful. If USB is says it's safe, I wouldn't take the word of someone else who is accused of having a destructive agenda, and they have only 4 posts, none of which verifies the validity of their claims.

[Member #3453]

It sounds to me that you are talking about regular bars. Are you talking about regular bars where you can dance with the girls. I remember visiting Monterrey and seeing Bar International. There is also the dance bar near El Infinito.

Aren't you talking apples and oranges when you compare a regular bar that has pretty, young girls to a bar with young, sexy strippers that perform sex acts in little cubicles?

I don't think you are talking about the same kind of bars in Colinas that we visit in Monterrey, and report on at the ISG.

Because, if you are talking about bars where the girls perform sex acts, we are all scum of the earth to the girls, and they talk behind our backs all the time. They are mostly interested smiling sexily to your face, and picking your pocket at their first opportunity.

It sounds like this is not the same kind of scenario you're describing in Colinas. Granted, it would be safer in the environment you describe in Colinas, but you aren't likely to get any.

Honestly, I am 25 years old, married, and visit every few months. I lurk on the ISG, and comment infrequently. But, I have no interest in picking up girls from a regular,"American" style bar. I can do that in Houston.

I go to Monterrey to see naked dancing girls prance around on stage, and I like cutting directly to the chase and having them end up in my hotel room in the shortest amount of time possible, and as cheaply as possible.

I don't much care whether they find me young and attractive, or ugly, old, or feeble, as long as I can get in their pants and it doesn't cost too much.

If all I am doing is ensuring my comparative safety by visiting bars in Colinas, then I'll just stay in Houston. Bar International is across the street from Pasarelas, the strip club, on Madero. I have only attended Bar International one time. It's a bar where the girls show up, and they dance with guys, there's a live band, and there is no on-site sexual stuff going on. You pay the girls standing on the side lines a small tip to dance with them, or you can buy them a drink. There's also a bar on the corner of Villagran and Carlos Salazar where the routine is the same.

Those bars are quite popular, especially on the weekends. But, they are NOT STRIP CLUBS. They are just regular bars where the girls show up to drink, dance, and make a little extra money for dancing. Some girls will likely go on dates with you on the outside, and you can probably end up in the sack with them, probably for a fee, but maybe even freebies if you are between 20-30 years old. But, you have to be much more discrete in your endeavors than we are as mongers, even when you are only 20-30 years old. It's more like trying to get a girl to go on a date where the end result is totally left up to chance and speculation, certainly less predictable than what we expect to find in the strip clubs on salida.

As I said, I did visit these dance bars a couple of times just out of curiosity. But, who among us wants to waste their time with that nonsense. First of all, the girls are NOT nearly as HOT as in the strip clubs. Secondly, you'll waste huge inordinate amounts of time going through the mating ritual with them. Thirdly, you may go through the mating ritual, spend a little money on them, but get NOWHERE. Fourthly, the girls are totally free lance, and you have no recourse with the bar should things go bad. And, of course, were you to get the girls into the sack, they have had absolutely no health checks whatsoever.

If these are the bars that we want to go to, we may as well stay home. Do any of us like the bars in the US for mongering? You will hear a resounding "NO" that will echo for ETERNITY here on the ISG! And, that's exactly why I've been so adamant about asking for specific details from those that claim alternatives, and are discouraging us from visiting the strip clubs in Monterrey. Because, if their alternative is what's being recommended, we are not talking apples for apples, we are not talking apples for oranges, we are talking Steak versus Rotten Apples.

Furthermore, with respect to age, certainly if you are only 20-30 years old, then you have a shot at 20-30 year old girls, and you have a shot at them for free. You will still probably have to go through the mating ritual, spend money on them, maybe just as much as you will have spent at the strip club, and you will have to deal with them as "legitimate dates."

When these youngsters turn "of age," they will acknowledge the merits of the strips clubs, where you can still enjoy your time with girls that are 18-28 years old, girls that may actually be HOTTER than you've ever experienced in your "real life" day to day, and you can do so for probably less than a legitimate date has ever cost you.

You can have what you have desired to have from your legitimate dates all of your life, but rarely gotten. And, you will have none of the damned responsibility of a "relationship," unless you choose that route.

These realities are apparently lost on same, due to the arrogance of youth. These are things they will sorely miss on their 31st birthday. They will realize that their youth is not of their own doing, and they will simultaneously realize that the time spent learning about women in their 20-30s will enable them to appeal to 18-28 year old woman far more effectively when they are middle aged than they would have ever dreamed possible at age 20-30. But, they will NEVER learn these lessons outside the strip clubs/mongering environment. Why?

Because the women are in control of us in the legitimate world. If you want to learn the lessons of how to appeal to 20-30 year old women well into middle age, it takes practice at being middle aged, and learning the lessons that most impetuous youth are too inexperienced and full of themselves to understand or utilize. They do not understand that the premise of pay for play permits an opening with certain types of girls half our age for legitimate GFE (that means "Girlfriend Experience" for people in Rio Linda (ie: Guadelupe).

Without that opening of opportunity, achieved through the strip club environment, paying the hotties for their undivided attention, at least for two hours, to have the opportunity to work on the girls and their psyche, most of the 20-30 year old girls are as closed minded as their male counterparts to those of us that are middle aged. And, some younger girls will never open their psyche to the possibilities. Some are as close minded by the arrogance of youth as their male counterparts.

But, by paying them to dispense with all the formalities, if one is patient, in the privacy of ones own controlled environment on salida, behind closed doors, away from society's prying eyes and social norms, the middle aged man learns the truth about young girls a older men. That's the reality. It takes more work as an older man, work that requires thought and knowledge about the opposite sex, work that requires concentration and planning, and to do so much more methodically than you ever did at 20-30 years of age.

If you are 20-30 years old, you can be hard headed, refusing to open your mind. You can take the arrogant youthful position, believing yourself far superior to middle aged men with respect to sexual prowess and romantic acumen with younger women. That's fine, you'll just continue to be arrogant. Perhaps you will continue your bull headed arrogance well into your 40s, believing you still have what it takes, and there's no need to open your mind to the range of possibilities.

But, MARK MY WORDS...you will, out of necessity, come back to my statements here. You will eventually contemplate the importance of this little gem of life, that you can, through a little enlightenment and open mindedness, realize your potential. Older men can be just as attractive and desirable to younger women. That's a profound realization that pales all of lives lessons in comparison. Open your mind, stop focusing so much on congratulating yourself for being young, something you have no part in accomplishing.

What is really nice about being middle aged is knowing that you can skillfully employ the knowledge about women that you've amassed over a lifetime of practice, and you can have GF experiences with young HOT girls by paying attention to the subtle differences between men and women. But, what is really cool about the strip club girls is this...

If all your moves don't work in accomplishing GFE results, you have a plan B that sometimes works just as well...

$$$$$$$. :-)))

[Member #3453]

Been a lurker here for a long time. This discussion about older guys having no game has me chuckling.

I happen to treat a fair amount of younger women that have come off of relationships with older men, older men that have literally swept them off their feet, and them dumped them for others so they could move on to even greener pastures. Many of these older dudes are real players. They spend there "golden years" getting a hell of a lot more action than most young guys I know. This is such an issue in my profession that there's a tongue and cheek article in one of our psychiatric journals. My advice? Don't underestimate these guys. The fire is still burning hotly in the old furnace.

Actually, while these are mostly just funny, the capitalized ones are quite often the actual reasons why most of my patients started seeing older men, and eventually fell in love with them.

Here's the list of the Top 50 Reasons Why Young Women Date Older Men. I hope you enjoy the laughs.

1. He knows a lot of useless stuff and makes a great partner in games like Scrabble, Trivial Pursuit and Balderdash.

2. HE IS WELL READ. He can explain a book's plot and storyline to you quickly and succinctly, thereby saving you the time it would take to actually read the book. It's like having your own personal set of Cliff Notes.

3. This gives you more free time to spend his money at malls, outlet stores, and online.

4. He knows a lot about music. He can name the band that Paul McCartney played with prior to Wings.

5. You can borrow his Grecian Formula to patch any bleached sun spots in your hair.

6. THE BIG BEDROOM. And / or guest rooms in his house means no rent for you and eventually your friends / relatives can move in too.

7. HE HAS SOME. Serious pension / social security money coming to him every month.

8. If you sprain your ankle, you can use his cane.

9. He qualifies for early bird senior discounts at restaurants.

10. He's entitled to senior bus fares.

11. HE WILL OPEN DOORS AND PULL OUT CHAIRS FOR YOU. He is well mannered.

12. If he gets too chatty, you can hide his teeth.

13. Qualifies for AARP membership privileges.

14. HE ACTUALLY REALLY CARES. He'll call to check up on you 3-5 times per day.

15. HE WILL GIVE YOU FLOWERS, CANDY, PRESENTS, and best of all COLD HARD CASH.

16. HE LIKES HOLDING HANDS, HUGS, KISSING, AND TALKING-NOT JUST SEX.

17. You won't need to pay for AAA roadside service because he'll pick you up whenever your car breaks down.

18. He'll effectively replace your dad for when pops isn't around. ' (Celebrate Father's Day twice!)

19. SEX WITH HIM WAS CARING.

20. No random late-night booty calls, because he goes to bed at 9 pm every night.

21. HE DIDN'T TRY TO CHANGE ME.

22. He can help you with your homework.

23. HE'S SEXUALLY EXPERIENCED. IF YOU LIKE IT OR WANT TO TRY IT, HE HAS DONE IT (And more than once.)

24. HE WON'T PRETEND TO LISTEN TO YOU JUST SO HE CAN GET INTO YOUR PANTS.

25. HE GETS A REGULAR PAY CHECK.

26. HE HAS A FUTURE, AND CAN GIVE ME A BETTER ONE THAN I CAN GIVE MYSELF, OR WHAT A YOUNG GUY OFFERS.

27. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO PAY FOR CAR REPAIRS.

28. Dating him will shock your folks. They may even throw lots of money at you to stop dating him.

29. HE PROVIDES BETTER, MORE INTELLIGENT AND ENGROSSING CONVERSATIONS. (How long can you talk about trucks, extreme sports and partying anyway?)

30. HE'S NOT SLEEPING ON MOM'S COUCH, OR LIVING WITH HIS PARENTS.

31. You don't have to worry about him looking at other women. (He's vision is probably so shot he can't see them).

32. HE'S ARTICULATE AND KNOWS BIG WORDS. (Improve your vocabulary).

33. HE WILL "TREAT" 100% OF THE TIME. (Young guys don't have cash, credit cards, or in many cases, wallets.)

34. HE DRESSES BETTER. Won't show up in his one pair of ratty jeans all the time. Means you can get into nice restaurants / clubs.

35. HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY DRUG BAGGAGE. He may have smoked pot in the '60's and '70's; or did coke in the '80's and '90's, but chances are he's clean now. (Otherwise he'the probably be dead.)

36. He'll actually dance with you at night clubs. He'll be the hit of the party when he pulls out his 'Funky Chicken. '

37. HE'S NOT A SEX MANIAC. HE WANTS ALL OF ME.

38. YOU WON'T GET PREGNANT. He's had a visectomy for years, or you won't have to worry about getting pregnant. Or, his sperm cells are so old, they're swimming backstroke

39. HE'S AN ATTENTIVE LOVER, and won't forget your name or order pizza immediately after he has an orgasm.

40. I GET ALONG WITH HIM SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOUNGER GUYS. He won't argue with you over little, meaningless things.

41. He won't ask you a bunch of personal, prying questions, like 'What's your name? '

42. I CAN COUNT ON HIM. He won't run away. At least not very far. Or very fast.

43. HE TREATS ME LIKE I'm NOT A DUMB BLONDE. I can talk to him, and he understands me.

44. He'll memorize your phone number, which comes in handy if you get too drunk and forget it.

45. He'll turn you on to old-school chick flicks like The Graduate, Love Story and Breakfast at Tiffany's.

46. HE HAS A NICE CAR. Park your Hyundai and start driving his Infiniti, Porsche, Lexus, Mercedes or BMW.

47. HE'LL TAKE YOU ON INCREDIBLE VACATIONS, unlike young guys. No more Vegas, Palm Springs and Tijuana during Spring Break. Say Hello, to cruises to Europe and Australia, ski trips to Aspenand Telluride and African safaris.

48. He won't be jealous of your vibrator. He's realistic!

49. He won't be text messaging you all the time. He doesn't know how!

50. When he dies, you can date his cute son (s)!

[El Cazador]

I had a new girl take my cell phone off my dresser a couple of months ago. I should have known to keep my eye on her. I just dropped my guard. But, in the end, it all worked out. I was 300 pesos poorer, but it was worth every penny to recover an expensive smart phone with all my stuff in it, etc.

I just went back to the bar, told the manager, and offered 300 pesos as a reward for an immediate recovery. I am considered a very good customer, and there was no hesitation in their believing me, or in their moving forward with a recovery.

That is one of the upsides to taking girls from the bars. These managers and waiters get really used to the little propinas they receive, and they drop everything for a regular, paying customer, which I am. They will bend over backwards to keep you happy and make things right, if you're in the right. They don't want to lose their future opportunities for propinas, so they're always very attentive.

It was kind of funny. The bouncers all flocked up upstairs, where all of the girls keep their stuff, and they dumped out a bunch of purses, not just the purse of the girl in question. They ended up with about ten cell phones. They displayed them all to me like they were a deck of cards, and asked me which was mine. I immediately plucked it up out of the pile, showed them that everything was displayed on the phone in Ingles, and that it was indeed mine, paid them their 300 peso ransom, and was on my way.

But, the girl was very angry with me, throwing a big tantrum right there in the bar, trying to represent to all that would listen that I had given it to her. Yeah, right. A $500US smart phone? The manager and the bouncers didn't buy it either, not that it mattered, the 300 pesos was all that mattered to them, and that I was satisfied of course, and I was.

Normally, I would recommend striking that girl from my list of eligible contestants. But, she was actually a pretty good girl in every other way, aside from "OUR" little "incident" as she now describes it.)

A few weeks later, I took her out again, after making up with her in the bar. I nailed everything down in the room, and we had a great time..) But, as it turns out, I don't have to nail down everything now. Now, I don't have to worry too much about her. I keep my eye on her a little bit. But, I think she learned her lesson.

My biggest complaint about girls that are so new to the business is their lack of patience, and their lack of business acumen. Some of these girls are just not that smart about things. Some take longer to realize that you may be worth a lot more to them over time than a silly cell phone. A LOT MORE! I am guilty of forgetting just how short sighted some of these new girls can be. I should know better, and do. But, I just dropped my guard.

So, your warning about crimes of opportunity, and dropping your guard, even with respect to crimes that are not particularly dangerous to us, but are still bothersome and aggravating none the less, is a timely one. Mangas Coloradas make a post here last week suggest that the word mamóand is used common by the girls in the bars to descibe us. This is wrong and Unspongebob experience above is a good example. I do not respond to Mangas directly as I beleive that many people who make the reports here are actually the same person that use different names and use the same keyboard. Maybe he sufrir from various personailty identity.

When the girl above steal Bobs phone she have no respect for him and treat him like a puñeta, a jerk-off. This person is thought of as the class clown and most people avoid this tipo of person but will tolereate him and be polite but will not invite him to their table.

When Bob goes back to the club after the stolen phone and have all the girls personal things exposed by the doormans he is now elevated to a pendejo level by all the girls for he is rude. The doormans still only think of him as a puñeta as he is not rude to them.

But when Bob goes back to the girl that steal from him for more relaciones he is now looked at as a momòand by everybody in the club. For the girl steal and slap his face and he has no othere opciones but to go back with the girl.

If you visit here and are a guest in our country and somebody call you a puñeta, pendejo, or mamóand, please leave the place very quickly as these are very bad words sometimes led to fights. Also, please treat people with respect here and don't talk down to us or use bad words on the street or even a internet foro as you could be made to look like a fool or something worse.

*puñeta- sometimes this word is used among friends in the younger ages but is rare. This is almost like when black people say what's up nig_er! Obviously you don't want to say the same to the same black man.

[El Cazador]

Mangas Coloradas make a post here last week suggest that the word mamóand is used common by the girls in the bars to descibe us. This is wrong and Unspongebob experience above is a good example. I do not respond to Mangas directly as I beleive that many people who make the reports here are actually the same person that use different names and use the same keyboard. Maybe he sufrir from various personailty identity.

When the girl above steal Bobs phone she have no respect for him and treat him like a puñeta, a jerk-off. This person is thought of as the class clown and most people avoid this tipo of person but will tolereate him and be polite but will not invite him to their table.

When Bob goes back to the club after the stolen phone and have all the girls personal things exposed by the doormans he is now elevated to a pendejo level by all the girls for he is rude. The doormans still only think of him as a puñeta as he is not rude to them.

But when Bob goes back to the girl that steal from him for more relaciones he is now looked at as a momòand by everybody in the club. For the girl steal and slap his face and he has no othere opciones but to go back with the girl.

If you visit here and are a guest in our country and somebody call you a puñeta, pendejo, or mamóand, please leave the place very quickly as these are very bad words sometimes led to fights. Also, please treat people with respect here and don't talk down to us or use bad words on the street or even a internet foro as you could be made to look like a fool or something worse.

*puñeta- sometimes this word is used among friends in the younger ages but is rare. This is almost like when black people say what's up nig_er! Obviously you don't want to say the same to the same black man. Mamóand is mamóand

[Member #3453]

"many people who make the reports here are actually the same person that use different names and use the same keyboard."

Uhmmm, how many times have I claimed that there are many disingenuous people with questionable motivations posting on ISG that are doing the very same thing that El Cazedor accuses some of our newer posters of doing. There have been numerous instances of members commenting with their own hidden agendas, and their made up, uninformed bogus reports. Anytime I happen to point this fact out, I've been directly and harshly criticized for making that very same comment about made up screen names, and dubious posts.

I don't have to hide behind other screen names to make comments about my legitimate experiences in Monterrey, nor do my opinions of dubious posters, and my criticism of them, require me to comment with made up screen names I don't even understand the meaning of.

Truth is, I think El Cazedor's primary motivation is entertainment. I don't really think he's a troll in the typical sense, but he does enjoy the banter. He seems to like to antagonize those of us that actually do legitimately visit the "mongering" venues of Monterrey, and report on them.

The character of El Cazedor's posts resembled those that seek to destroy the Monterrey section, and his posts suggested he may be a part of the group that enjoys the antagonistic value of prodding those of us that actually do post reports of our experiences. This dubious group enjoys antagonizing those of us that have informed opinions based on our legitimate experiences, not just speculation and conjecture based on the Drug Blogs, and teeny websites. The senior members have proven our legitimacy to countless mongers that have visited Monterrey over the last ten years. Some of these visitors to Monterrey know us personally, having met us directly, some on numerous occasions.

As I said, I do not categorize El Cazedor as one of these dubious posters, but I am uncomfortable with his inability to report any of his own experiences in the mongering venues of Monterrey. I have no doubt he lives in Monterrey. But, what good is that experience if you do not monger, and can't report on your experiences according to how living in Monterrey effects mongering, and more specifically, how the level of danger in Monterrey effects mongering?

As I said, El Cazedor seems to be a legitimate poster, and I accept him as such. I do not agree with him, but that's fine. But, when I read the postings from some of these dubious posters that sometimes pop up, I am often motivated to press them to get to the truth. That's why I challenged El Cazedor, initially believing he was from a faction that only strives to damage ISG, and to personally assault the senior members.

It's not unreasonable to ask new posters that contribute comments and posts that are suspect, to elaborate with more specifics in order to establish their credibility. That's all that's been going on here. Those that escalate our challenges to them by posting with personal attacks and rhetoric do not help their credibility with senior members that really do know the score in Monterrey.

[Jinxx]

I just got back from Monterrey. I spent time in Infinito day shift and night shift. I think the day shift girls were a little bit hotter. I checked out el matehuala and wasn't impressed. Went to marcella masaje place a couple times. They charge a flat fee of 600 pesos which apparently only covers CBJ and cfs, if you want to kiss the girl or want BBBJ that requires extra pesos.

I also spent time in a strip club on Lincoln in the cumbres area called Woman's. This place was ok, had a few hot chicks. I think it's more of a place where you drink and chat with the girls as opposed to infinito where the girls make their money having sex in the privados. I never got a chance to check out a place called Crazy Ranch which is on felix you gomez north of el centro. Does anybody know the place and how good it is?

As for the safety situation I'd say it's ok for a guy just hitting up a few strip clubs and masaje places for a couple days but in general Monterrey is a goddamn warzone. Everyday I saw platoons of soldiers armed to the teeth riding around with their faces covered up. I mean at any given moment the shit could hit the fan pretty much anywhere in the city. The only place that's considered safe is Valle / San Pedro. You hear reports on the news of people getting killed ALMOST ON A DAILY FUCKING BASIS. I'm not kidding one bit. It got so bad a couple of weeks ago when I was there the police were setting up check points at random places and stopping everysingle car and searching the car and the people looking for contraband. The whole city was tense and on edge. You can feel the fear and tension when you talk to people, it's a creepy feeling.

Late at night I'd reccomend paying close attention to what kind of taxi you're getting into. I'd reccomend riding in a car that looks newer and well kept and you'll feel safer with an older guy taxi driver. A couple of times late night when I'd been drinking I found myself riding in some questionable cars with some questionable looking younger drivers. I didn't feel 100% secure those times. But I'm a younger guy and I was hanging out with some pretty wild local people that party pretty hard so most people reading this probably won't be experiencing Monterrey the same as me. Please keep in mind that if you're looking to score "party supplies" in Monterrey you are taking your life into your own hands. Literally. Dealing with the wrong people can get you into some serious trouble and I'm not necessarily talking about with the police.

Another thing that was cool about this trip is I discovered the casinos. I'd heard there were casinos in Monterrey but I didn't really know what to expect. I went to a new one in apodaca and another one called casino revolucion and was very impressed. They look just like the ones here in the states. Very nice and a very nice surprise. I wasn't expecting being able to gamble in Monterrey. If you play the card tables, all the dealers are extremely hot young chicks. Very cool.

[Member #3453]

I just got back from Monterrey. I spent time in Infinito day shift and night shift. I think the day shift girls were a little bit hotter. I checked out el matehuala and wasn't impressed. Went to marcella masaje place a couple times. They charge a flat fee of 600 pesos which apparently only covers CBJ and cfs, if you want to kiss the girl or want BBBJ that requires extra pesos.

I also spent time in a strip club on Lincoln in the cumbres area called Woman's. This place was ok, had a few hot chicks. I think it's more of a place where you drink and chat with the girls as opposed to infinito where the girls make their money having sex in the privados. I never got a chance to check out a place called Crazy Ranch which is on felix you gomez north of el centro. Does anybody know the place and how good it is?

As for the safety situation I'd say it's ok for a guy just hitting up a few strip clubs and masaje places for a couple days but in general Monterrey is a goddamn warzone. Everyday I saw platoons of soldiers armed to the teeth riding around with their faces covered up. I mean at any given moment the shit could hit the fan pretty much anywhere in the city. The only place that's considered safe is Valle / San Pedro. You hear reports on the news of people getting killed ALMOST ON A DAILY FUCKING BASIS. I'm not kidding one bit. It got so bad a couple of weeks ago when I was there the police were setting up check points at random places and stopping everysingle car and searching the car and the people looking for contraband. The whole city was tense and on edge. You can feel the fear and tension when you talk to people, it's a creepy feeling.

Late at night I'd reccomend paying close attention to what kind of taxi you're getting into. I'd reccomend riding in a car that looks newer and well kept and you'll feel safer with an older guy taxi driver. A couple of times late night when I'd been drinking I found myself riding in some questionable cars with some questionable looking younger drivers. I didn't feel 100% secure those times. But I'm a younger guy and I was hanging out with some pretty wild local people that party pretty hard so most people reading this probably won't be experiencing Monterrey the same as me. Please keep in mind that if you're looking to score "party supplies" in Monterrey you are taking your life into your own hands. Literally. Dealing with the wrong people can get you into some serious trouble and I'm not necessarily talking about with the police.

Another thing that was cool about this trip is I discovered the casinos. I'd heard there were casinos in Monterrey but I didn't really know what to expect. I went to a new one in apodaca and another one called casino revolucion and was very impressed. They look just like the ones here in the states. Very nice and a very nice surprise. I wasn't expecting being able to gamble in Monterrey. If you play the card tables, all the dealers are extremely hot young chicks. Very cool.

This is the most accurate assessment of the reality on the ground that I've seen in many months. I specifically agree with your recommendations about the taxis. But, I have to admit that while I do feel safer with the older guys in the taxis, sometimes they don't have a clue as to the location of the clubs I want to visit when I mention them by name. I have to lead some of the older guys by the hand, street by street. Sometimes, I also wonder if they are able to see at night based on their driving skills. So, the older guys present a different kind of danger. But, you also take your life in your own hands with the younger drivers who sometimes drive like maniacs.

I would only add to your recommendation that at night it's often difficult to discern the age of the driver until they have stopped for you. Just make sure, especially if you see you are getting a younger driver, that you sit in the back seat where you can remain in control of the circumstances, where you can control where they're taking you, etc...

I think your feeling about some younger drivers being potential criminals first, and taxi drivers second, is dead on, especially now, especially late at night. It would not surprise me if the criminal activities engaged in all over Monterrey, are not taxi drivers hiding behind the guise of being just an innocent, harmless taxi driver going about his business, just trying to make a peso or two. Being a taxi driver gives the criminal element some degree of obscurity along with their mobility, as they blend into the night, undetected. So, your advise is very wise.

As for the news reports in Monterrey about somebody being murdered daily. When I am back in my home town, I see the same things on a nightly basis...The distinction is the wholesale killing between the cartel members engaged in a violent business, and their finding mass graves to support what is most definitely not characteristic of the murder rate in most typical large cities in the US. Those statistics in the US do pale in comparison to the Mexico. But, as you pointed out, if you're not a drug dealer, buying drugs, etc...you are less susceptible to being victimized by waring between the cartels and it's members.

I also think that coming to Monterrey, or anywhere in Mexico, can be a shock to the sensibilities of most visiting Gringos that haven't spent a lot of time in South American Countries. I remember being initially a little shocked at the Militarization of Mexico as I first crossed over the border a number of years ago.

We are only used to seeing our police officers deployed in the streets in the USA, not the Army, and not generally even the National Guard, unless they are in transit somewhere, or you're located close to a base. However, it is relatively common practice for the army to be deployed and conducting civilian peace keeping missions in Mexico, especially these days. That's quite a shock when you come from a culture whose police agencies work pretty hard to soften their public image, and whose army is used only in operations outside the US, at times when they're in transit, or during natural disasters. When you see the contrast of an army deployed to maintain order in civilian society, with an aggressive presence, like what we see in Mexico compared to the US, it's a little ominous.

The army is deployed all over Monterrey, and they're fully armed with automatic weapons, in convoys, and deliberately confronting the Cartels, ferreting them out. The contrast with how the USA combats drug cartels and criminals, through the use of the Police, causes significantly less public fanfare, and it is not nearly as intimidating to the citizenry at large. Our law enforcement efforts in the US are very selectively Militarized. Our law enforcement image to the public is soft sold to the public in comparison.

The way the Mexicans are combating the problem is night and day to the way the US engages their drug gangs, and organized criminals. Americans are very, very reluctant to Militarize their civilian peace keeping efforts, just look at the controversy over deployment of the National Guard for US border enforcement. Norte Americanos just don't like the idea of using the Military domestically where it can be avoided. But, I think the Mexicans are more used to it, and of course, they are having to Militarize their efforts on account of the corruption and graft that runs so rampantly through their police agencies.

And, you bring up a very good point. The Mexican Army will indiscriminately cut down anyone and everyone in an effort to protect their own lives, to secure their positions, and over run the criminals with superior firepower as they engage the Cartels. So, the danger for us as mongers is being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and getting caught in the line of fire between the Cartels and the Army. Your comments are dead-on because there is really no statistically reliable way of knowing where the right place and the wrong places are in Monterrey.

That's why, just as you pointed out, you are just as likely to be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time whether standing in front of, or walking into, an El Oxxo, versus sitting drinking a beer in a club somewhere. The danger is static, and the odds, at least statistically, are still with us by a land slide.

The chances of being a victim are still statistically quite small, less than being killed in a traffic accident. But, there is always the off chance that you will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, I for one am not prepared to live my life with blue balls in the US on the statistically small off chance that I will end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope that my luck doesn't run out. But, conversely, I have never won the lottery either, so why should I believe that I am any more or less "lucky" in "love." :-)))

[MonterreyDude]

Jinxx. Seems you were all over the map.

Rancho Loco AKA Crazy Ranch is no more.

Marsella MP at this moment is more gas than substance. You are not the only one that has complained about the place.

I don't know if they changed their policies but like you say, extras cost on a flat rate basis.

Infinito on the working class level and Amnesia, Premiere and Colorados on the top notch expensive clubs, are the only ones that pay their girls on privado and dances.

So the girls are more intrested in you investing on booth dancing than chatting.

Women's, Harem, Pasarelas, Azul Tequila, Poisson and the rest. They work the other way around like you say. The girls earn their money drinking with the customers.

Yes Jinxx the federal and armed forces are all over the city.

One thing: locals feel safer with them taking charge of the city and the citizen's security than waiting for the local police to take charge, which they won't.

And believe me, you in the US are not used to this, but we are.

Daily basis for us, used to it by now.

Jinxx says "You hear reports on the news of people getting killed ALMOST ON A DAILY FUCKING BASIS."

Well, I read reports of the same coming from New York and the burroughs. And in a higher proportion than in Monterrey.

Come on Jinxx, Flint, Detroit are even more violent than Monterrey. Thing is that like us we are used to it by now, you tend not to look at what goes on in your own country.

One recomendation. You are wondering too far from the dowtown area of Monterrey into the hot spots of the city.

Lincoln avenue, Apodaca district. Stick to the dowtown area.

You can find everything there: Casinos, MPs, SCs.


I just got back from Monterrey. I spent time in Infinito day shift and night shift. I think the day shift girls were a little bit hotter. I checked out el matehuala and wasn't impressed. Went to marcella masaje place a couple times. They charge a flat fee of 600 pesos which apparently only covers CBJ and cfs, if you want to kiss the girl or want BBBJ that requires extra pesos.

I also spent time in a strip club on Lincoln in the cumbres area called Woman's. This place was ok, had a few hot chicks. I think it's more of a place where you drink and chat with the girls as opposed to infinito where the girls make their money having sex in the privados. I never got a chance to check out a place called Crazy Ranch which is on felix you gomez north of el centro. Does anybody know the place and how good it is?

As for the safety situation I'd say it's ok for a guy just hitting up a few strip clubs and masaje places for a couple days but in general Monterrey is a goddamn warzone. Everyday I saw platoons of soldiers armed to the teeth riding around with their faces covered up. I mean at any given moment the shit could hit the fan pretty much anywhere in the city. The only place that's considered safe is Valle / San Pedro. You hear reports on the news of people getting killed ALMOST ON A DAILY FUCKING BASIS. I'm not kidding one bit. It got so bad a couple of weeks ago when I was there the police were setting up check points at random places and stopping everysingle car and searching the car and the people looking for contraband. The whole city was tense and on edge. You can feel the fear and tension when you talk to people, it's a creepy feeling.

Late at night I'd reccomend paying close attention to what kind of taxi you're getting into. I'd reccomend riding in a car that looks newer and well kept and you'll feel safer with an older guy taxi driver. A couple of times late night when I'd been drinking I found myself riding in some questionable cars with some questionable looking younger drivers. I didn't feel 100% secure those times. But I'm a younger guy and I was hanging out with some pretty wild local people that party pretty hard so most people reading this probably won't be experiencing Monterrey the same as me. Please keep in mind that if you're looking to score "party supplies" in Monterrey you are taking your life into your own hands. Literally. Dealing with the wrong people can get you into some serious trouble and I'm not necessarily talking about with the police.

Another thing that was cool about this trip is I discovered the casinos. I'd heard there were casinos in Monterrey but I didn't really know what to expect. I went to a new one in apodaca and another one called casino revolucion and was very impressed. They look just like the ones here in the states. Very nice and a very nice surprise. I wasn't expecting being able to gamble in Monterrey. If you play the card tables, all the dealers are extremely hot young chicks. Very cool.

[Member #3453]

Well, I read reports of the same coming from New York and the burroughs. And in a higher proportion than in Monterrey. Come on Jinxx, Flint, Detroit are even more violent than Monterrey. Thing is that like us we are used to it by now, you tend not to look at what goes on in your own country.There is just as much "crime" in the large cities of the US. Just check out the crime stats for New York, St. Louis, Philidelphia, Chicago, Miami, New Orleans, etc.

But, the efforts to fight crime are in your face in Mexico due to the presence of the Military, whose intention is to exhibit an absolute dominance of the society they are now policing. The presence of the military as a civilian peace keeping force is foreign to Gringos, and it's weird for them to see it.

In the US, criminals are much more discrete. Criminals do not call attention to their acts by displaying them with such brutality because they know the police are much more aggressive, conscientious, and successful at using the evidence gathered from that level of brutality to bring criminals to justice. A "Cartel Level" of brutality leaves significantly more evidence, draws attention to the crime, etc. Something the US criminal is adverse to.

In Mexico, you only have the army keeping order, pursuing the cartels, and investigating very little with respect to crime. The police are virtually worthless at investigating crimes, and bringing perpetrators to justice in Mexico. Therefore, you are seeing an escalation and a brutality element in Mexico that mimics the cartels as the copy cats enter the fray, and as the regular criminals, or those they have always formerly restrained their criminal activity, begin to engage in criminal acts. They know the army doesn't investigate, and they know the police have been virtually subjugated by the army with respect to not only civil peace keeping, but that the ineffectiveness of police investigative follow up is almost non-existent.

More are turning to Crime in Mexico, carrying out retributions, and engaging in violent acts against their long-time enemies within their social circles, believing, correctly, that they will not be brought to justice. It's that simple. The escalation is no longer just an element of the cartels, but an atmosphere that breeds lawlessness from those that just a few years ago would have been much more discrete or not engaged in crimes at all.

[Bbond]

Come on Jinxx, Flint, Detroit are even more violent than Monterrey. Thing is that like us we are used to it by now, you tend not to look at what goes on in your own country.In 2010 NY City had 532 murders, Detroit 308. I don't think one has to worry about a hail of machine gun fire, hand grenades, or RPGs in either.
Flint had 62.

[MonterreyDude]

Flint had 62?

Never going to quote Flint again as example.

Thanks for the data BB.

My point is that violent crime, in the sense of the nature of it, is increasing in the US
Criminal elements are no longer afraid to shoot at police, like the nutcase that killed 4 police officers inside a precinct. Or the other guy that shot 2 in a Walmart.
They don't care anymore if they will be killed, they want to take a few with them.
And I believe just this couple of days same thing happened again elsewhere.
Plus shootings are going more openly, and more likely to hurt all those around like the frat shooting in Ohio just yesterday.
That is part of my point.
And the media reports it as a regional aspect. Might go national, but it is not sensationalized like in Mexico.
So you have many, many instances that remain after a couple of days, like local incidents.
But the sum of all of them nationwide in America is something that is not considered by the citizens of the US.
The level of violence is increasing. Maybe not the number, the level of the violent crime has move up several notches.



In 2010 NY City had 532 murders, Detroit 308. I don't think one has to worry about a hail of machine gun fire, hand grenades, or RPGs in either.

Flint had 62.

[Member #3453]

In 2010 NY City had 532 murders, Detroit 308. I don't think one has to worry about a hail of machine gun fire, hand grenades, or RPGs in either.

Flint had 62.

Granted, US criminals are not using machine gun fire, hand grenades, and RPGs to terrorize their opponents. These are devices used by terrorists, and not typically by criminals. It isn't really a matter of crime, but a matter of escalating terrorism used in the commission of crime in Mexico.

In all fairness, the US has it's share of heinous, ruthless, and notorious terrorist acts that have been on the rise. The difference between Mexico and the US is that the US criminal element, as they create a totality of comparable crime statistics, comparable statistically to the totality of the crime statistics in Mexico, do not use terrorist acts in the commission of their "crimes."

Comparatively, there are only (3) major cities in Mexico, whereas there are many major cities in the US. So, the heinous acts are spread out over a vastly larger population in the US, and the notoriety of those acts is less geographically concentrated. The terrorist acts are for a different set of motivations than what we find in Mexico, but they are terrorist acts that are every bit as heinous as what is occurring in Mexico, but on a much different geographical scale in Mexico, thereby drawing more concentrated scrutiny by the media of both countries.

Also, it's quite clear that a heavily armed US population will not permit some of the terrorist methods being used in Monterrey to occur in the US in the commission of street crimes. Criminals using some of these same terrorist methods in the US would be met with overwhelming and deadly resistance from the armed, innocent population at large. This is not something the innocent population in Mexico is equipped or permitted to legally do. The innocent population in Mexico isn't legally permitted to acquire the means to protect themselves, nor are they culturally or sociologically conditioned, or sufficiently experienced with arms, in order to utilize them to fight back against a brazen criminal element that chooses to employ terrorist tactics.

The cartels in Mexico started using terrorism to achieve their own ends about three years ago. What concerns me beyond just the efforts by the Cartels to terrorize each other, and the collateral damage that might result from those efforts, collateral damage that has not been a legitimate threat to the average visitor or resident up to now, is that terrorism methods are starting to be used by the criminal element in the commission of crimes against the innocent population in Monterrey.

The "government" is increasingly incapable of curbing that kind of heinous violence in the commission of a crimes against innocent people, crimes that are not motivated by the interests of the cartels, but just crimes committed randomly by street thugs that have no greater goal in mind.

The distinction between the crimes occurring in the US versus the way the crimes are being committed in Monterrey is that regular criminals are increasingly starting to use terrorist methods. If this continues in Monterrey, the potential for being victimized rises exponentially as street criminals begin to emulate the most heinous acts of the cartels as part of their normal method of operation, something they have not been doing until just the last several months.

Employing the kinds of methods we are just now starting to see in Monterrey would simply not be possible in the US because the public at large in the USA represents the largest standing army in the World, probably 1000 times greater than any standing army in the world, and 100 times greater than any armed population of innocent civilians in the World.

Up to now, the acts in Mexico have been perpetrated between cartel members, criminals on criminals, drug dealing opportunists, the Cartels upon Politicians, etc. I am still not yet quite convinced that the trend with respect to criminal use of terrorist methods is sufficient to warn mongers to stay away from Monterrey. As I said, we are just now starting to see a shift in criminal activity, and the way in which they perpetrate their crimes against the general public. But...

If the criminal element begins to adopt these same terrorist methods against the civilian population, and this very recent trend continues, then all bets are off. The civilian population can not protect itself due to overly restrictive gun laws. The police are virtually ineffectual, corrupt, and sometimes criminal. The army only has regard for it's own safety, and the killing of the enemy (the cartels) , having no regard for the safety of the civilian population in the performance of it's duty.

If this should come to pass, the dangers we were formerly not so concerned about become legitimately worrisome. Why? Because Mexico does not respect the right of the population to protect itself. You have no hope that "government" can, will, or even wants to protect you. If they can't, won't, or don't want to protect you, you have no means by which you can protect yourself other than to leave the Country.

[MonterreyDude]

USB says: "Also, it's quite clear that a heavily armed US population will not permit some of the terrorist methods being used in Monterrey to occur in the US in the commission of street crimes. Criminals using some of these same terrorist methods in the US would be met with overwhelming and deadly resistance from the armed, innocent population at large."

Not true.

Again you only say "would be met with overwhelming and deadly resistance from the armed, innocent population at large."

We are not talking individual nutcases with a couple of guns gunning down crowds in Arizona.
We are talking organized crime.
Narcs carry overwhelming firepower in their level 5 armored vehicules: more than one assault weapon per occupant. Not only assault weapons, but guns. Add granades, RPGs and ammo sufficient to confront the army.

And that is just in the trunk of their cars.
And that kind of weaponry is used only to intimidate.

And they have no qualms to kill innocent bystanders.

And when they really mean business, they will do it in groups of 5 to 10 aromored vehicules making it like 25 killers per convoy.

AND you have also not considered retaliation.
(Why do you think the Army and Marines are involved on this???... cause these guys go for the family after the hail of bullets, to spread harm and fear even further and deeply)

No resistance from armed innocent population would be enough to stop them.

You have also not considered in your equation, that said armed innocent popultation, being them in their own right to pack a weapon, might be in the streets with their also innocent family.

Only an idiot would unholster an automatic pistol and try to confront a narc with an AK-47 with their family in close proximity. 1 or 2 feet away and bring a hail of bullets from them straight to their loved ones.

No, you are not considering many factors involved what is a confrontation between a killer that does not care who he kills and armed citizens that in the moment of truth, am quite sure they will hit the ground first and lastly, after everything is over, he will remember that he has a pop gun that is no match against a far superior fire power.

And only the Mexican armed forces have been succesful in stopping them cause they have the training and weapons to stop them.

But again and that is my point in my post further down below, that the level of violence will be going up many notches.
And if it does, it will be the daily bread of America... same kind we are having in Mexico.

Instead of hearing wishes that drug consumption be stopped in the US, that illegal traffiking of guns to Mexico will be stopped (and I repeat, ILLEGAL gun traffiking)... I only hear the escaltion of violence.

And that is not the solution.


Granted, US criminals are not using machine gun fire, hand grenades, and RPGs to terrorize their opponents. These are devices used by terrorists, and not typically by criminals. It isn't really a matter of crime, but a matter of escalating terrorism used in the commission of crime in Mexico.

In all fairness, the US has it's share of heinous, ruthless, and notorious terrorist acts that have been on the rise. The difference between Mexico and the US is that the US criminal element, as they create a totality of comparable crime statistics, comparable statistically to the totality of the crime statistics in Mexico, do not use terrorist acts in the commission of their "crimes."

Comparatively, there are only (3) major cities in Mexico, whereas there are many major cities in the US. So, the heinous acts are spread out over a vastly larger population in the US, and the notoriety of those acts is less geographically concentrated. The terrorist acts are for a different set of motivations than what we find in Mexico, but they are terrorist acts that are every bit as heinous as what is occurring in Mexico, but on a much different geographical scale in Mexico, thereby drawing more concentrated scrutiny by the media of both countries.

Also, it's quite clear that a heavily armed US population will not permit some of the terrorist methods being used in Monterrey to occur in the US in the commission of street crimes. Criminals using some of these same terrorist methods in the US would be met with overwhelming and deadly resistance from the armed, innocent population at large. This is not something the innocent population in Mexico is equipped or permitted to legally do. The innocent population in Mexico isn't legally permitted to acquire the means to protect themselves, nor are they culturally or sociologically conditioned, or sufficiently experienced with arms, in order to utilize them to fight back against a brazen criminal element that chooses to employ terrorist tactics.

The cartels in Mexico started using terrorism to achieve their own ends about three years ago. What concerns me beyond just the efforts by the Cartels to terrorize each other, and the collateral damage that might result from those efforts, collateral damage that has not been a legitimate threat to the average visitor or resident up to now, is that terrorism methods are starting to be used by the criminal element in the commission of crimes against the innocent population in Monterrey.

The "government" is increasingly incapable of curbing that kind of heinous violence in the commission of a crimes against innocent people, crimes that are not motivated by the interests of the cartels, but just crimes committed randomly by street thugs that have no greater goal in mind.

The distinction between the crimes occurring in the US versus the way the crimes are being committed in Monterrey is that regular criminals are increasingly starting to use terrorist methods. If this continues in Monterrey, the potential for being victimized rises exponentially as street criminals begin to emulate the most heinous acts of the cartels as part of their normal method of operation, something they have not been doing until just the last several months.

Employing the kinds of methods we are just now starting to see in Monterrey would simply not be possible in the US because the public at large in the USA represents the largest standing army in the World, probably 1000 times greater than any standing army in the world, and 100 times greater than any armed population of innocent civilians in the World.

Up to now, the acts in Mexico have been perpetrated between cartel members, criminals on criminals, drug dealing opportunists, the Cartels upon Politicians, etc. I am still not yet quite convinced that the trend with respect to criminal use of terrorist methods is sufficient to warn mongers to stay away from Monterrey. As I said, we are just now starting to see a shift in criminal activity, and the way in which they perpetrate their crimes against the general public. But.

If the criminal element begins to adopt these same terrorist methods against the civilian population, and this very recent trend continues, then all bets are off. The civilian population can not protect itself due to overly restrictive gun laws. The police are virtually ineffectual, corrupt, and sometimes criminal. The army only has regard for it's own safety, and the killing of the enemy (the cartels) , having no regard for the safety of the civilian population in the performance of it's duty.

If this should come to pass, the dangers we were formerly not so concerned about become legitimately worrisome. Why? Because Mexico does not respect the right of the population to protect itself. You have no hope that "government" can, will, or even wants to protect you. If they can't, won't, or don't want to protect you, you have no means by which you can protect yourself other than to leave the Country.

[Jinxx]

There is just as much "crime" in the large cities of the US. Just check out the crime stats for New York, St. Louis, Philidelphia, Chicago, Miami, New Orleans, etc.

But, the efforts to fight crime are in your face in Mexico due to the presence of the Military, whose intention is to exhibit an absolute dominance of the society they are now policing. The presence of the military as a civilian peace keeping force is foreign to Gringos, and it's weird for them to see it.

In the US, criminals are much more discrete. Criminals do not call attention to their acts by displaying them with such brutality because they know the police are much more aggressive, conscientious, and successful at using the evidence gathered from that level of brutality to bring criminals to justice. A "Cartel Level" of brutality leaves significantly more evidence, draws attention to the crime, etc. Something the US criminal is adverse to.

In Mexico, you only have the army keeping order, pursuing the cartels, and investigating very little with respect to crime. The police are virtually worthless at investigating crimes, and bringing perpetrators to justice in Mexico. Therefore, you are seeing an escalation and a brutality element in Mexico that mimics the cartels as the copy cats enter the fray, and as the regular criminals, or those they have always formerly restrained their criminal activity, begin to engage in criminal acts. They know the army doesn't investigate, and they know the police have been virtually subjugated by the army with respect to not only civil peace keeping, but that the ineffectiveness of police investigative follow up is almost non-existent.

More are turning to Crime in Mexico, carrying out retributions, and engaging in violent acts against their long-time enemies within their social circles, believing, correctly, that they will not be brought to justice. It's that simple. The escalation is no longer just an element of the cartels, but an atmosphere that breeds lawlessness from those that just a few years ago would have been much more discrete or not engaged in crimes at all. This allow me to add:

One of the things that's made the situation so scary in Monterrey, Cuidad Juarez, and other areas is EXTORTION. Supposedly from what I hear from my buddies in Mty is if you own a restaurant, a store, a mechanic shop or basically any type of small business you can expect to be pressured to pay a "cuota" to some form of gang. And if you don't pay they have been known to burn down your place of business, kidnap you, attack you or your family, or just plain put a bullet in your head.

Another thing that's scary is Mexico has no real investigative process. In the US we're used to a crime being investigated, ie; witnesses being interviewed, leads being followed up on, the district attorney files formal charges, warrants being issued, arrest made, and a court process taking place with someone ending up doing time. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND MEXICO HAS NONE OF THAT! NONE! So any criminal with a half a brain doesn't have to worry about getting caught by the police. They only have to worry about stepping on another gang's toes and getting their head chopped off. Hence the barbaric way the gangs go after each other.

So now that the zetas have exposed how flawed and rotten to the core the law enforcement and judicial system is, criminals have learned how easy it is to get away with almost anything. And since shit got so bad so fast the only response the government can come up with is sent the military to chase the bad guys around the city playing cat and mouse, shooting up the place. And innocent bystanders are just collateral damage. I mean we're a couple steps away from a police state of emergency, martial law situation.

[Member #3453]

USB says: "Also, it's quite clear that a heavily armed US population will not permit some of the terrorist methods being used in Monterrey to occur in the US in the commission of street crimes. Criminals using some of these same terrorist methods in the US would be met with overwhelming and deadly resistance from the armed, innocent population at large."

Not true.

Again you only say "would be met with overwhelming and deadly resistance from the armed, innocent population at large."

We are not talking individual nutcases with a couple of guns gunning down crowds in Arizona.

We are talking organized crime.

Narcs carry overwhelming firepower in their level 5 armored vehicules: more than one assault weapon per occupant. Not only assault weapons, but guns. Add granades, RPGs and ammo sufficient to confront the army.

And that is just in the trunk of their cars.

And that kind of weaponry is used only to intimidate.

And they have no qualms to kill innocent bystanders.

And when they really mean business, they will do it in groups of 5 to 10 aromored vehicules making it like 25 killers per convoy.

AND you have also not considered retaliation.

(Why do you think the Army and Marines are involved on this. Cause these guys go for the family after the hail of bullets, to spread harm and fear even further and deeply)

No resistance from armed innocent population would be enough to stop them.

You have also not considered in your equation, that said armed innocent popultation, being them in their own right to pack a weapon, might be in the streets with their also innocent family.

Only an idiot would unholster an automatic pistol and try to confront a narc with an AK-47 with their family in close proximity. 1 or 2 feet away and bring a hail of bullets from them straight to their loved ones.

No, you are not considering many factors involved what is a confrontation between a killer that does not care who he kills and armed citizens that in the moment of truth, am quite sure they will hit the ground first and lastly, after everything is over, he will remember that he has a pop gun that is no match against a far superior fire power.

And only the Mexican armed forces have been succesful in stopping them cause they have the training and weapons to stop them.

But again and that is my point in my post further down below, that the level of violence will be going up many notches.

And if it does, it will be the daily bread of America. Same kind we are having in Mexico.

Instead of hearing wishes that drug consumption be stopped in the US, that illegal traffiking of guns to Mexico will be stopped (and I repeat, ILLEGAL gun traffiking). I only hear the escaltion of violence.

And that is not the solution.

The FBI estimates that there are over 200 million privately-owned firearms in the US. If you add those owned by the military, law enforcement agencies, and museums, there's probably about one firearm per person in the USA. The last total estimate was about 350,000,000. That would be one weapon for every man woman and child in the US.

I don't care what kind of weapons the Cartels have, whatever they have is simply not sufficient to repel the absolutely overwhelming hordes of determined rednecks that would come out of the woodwork against them. And, historically, the purpose of the founding fathers in the USA was to have that very same potential effect upon a potentially tyrannical government evolving over time. But, it also applies to any form of tyranny, governmental or organized crime.

Imagine, you are a small group of cartel members, and every other person you're trying to dominate is armed, some of them with similar firepower, and they are not only armed, but they are proficient in the use of those arms, and more importantly, they are willing to use them.

And, frankly, the latter part of that statement is what distinguishes the American from many other societies that have been ultimately dominated by their governments, criminals, etc...In my opinion, it is a cultural issue. Some societies are willing to fight for their freedom, and some are content living under oppression, whether that be oppression from the government, or oppression from criminals.

”The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Nobody said it would be a safe scenario to fight back. But, you either fight oppression or you accept it. You are either dominated by it, and forced to live under oppressive conditions, or you fight back. You are either content bolting the front door, and never venturing out for fear of your life, or you choose to fight back. There is no other answer.

For my part, I prefer to at least have the means to fight back, regardless of the outcome, rather than just passively walking over the cliff because I am helpless to resist.

If the sociological and cultural conditioning of the people have them choosing to succumb to it, relying on promises from their government that they'll be protected, then they'll experience the same fate as all the rest of the people throughout history that have traded their liberty for hollow promises of security from their inept, corrupt, and opportunistic governments.

Some people, and whole societies, are content being lambs to the slaughter. History demonstrates in one instance after another that such passivity results in their own oppression through a blind but hopeful complicity with those who are wanting to dominate them. This naive and ultimately self destructive perspective about personal protection and personally liberty has it's intended effect on their intended victims.

[Bbond]

Instead of hearing wishes that drug consumption be stopped in the US, that illegal traffiking of guns to Mexico will be stopped (and I repeat, ILLEGAL gun traffiking)... I only hear the escaltion of violence.Wishing the US would stop using drugs? Ain't going to happen, drugs are glamorized, even our elite use them, many consider drugs like cocaine relatively harmless. Can't get coke? Heck we have our in country made meth. Drugs, just like booze, are here to stay and that is a fact.

Stop illegal gun trafficing to Mexico? Stop buying them. As long as there is a market, someone, the US or someone else will fill it. AK-47s come from all over the world, probably easier to bring them in from down south anyway.

I read that most grenades come in from South or Central America.

Biggest problem I see in all this is the police are not on the side of the people, witness drugs openly sold with police watching over the transactions, police extorting people, etc, etc. Without an effective police force, crime runs rampant.

[MonterreyDude]

BB. I knew someone would post that the guns do not come from the US.

One question: why should the cartels buy guns from South America when they have the US no more than 5 minutes away from them?

The thing is you guys States side can not fathom the reality that you have gun runners selling guns not just to the rest of the world, but to Mexico too.

Let me point out that an article that came out in the New York Times and the LA Times (plus others) was quickly burried by the NRA rethoric not more than 2 weeks ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26brfs-20CHARGEDING_BRF.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=arizona%20guns%20sinaloa&st=cse.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gun-smuggling-20110126,0,3179205.story

And someone told me they could trace the weopns back to the seller. Well, they have and it was right in the US.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-border-agent-killed,0,3579590.story

It is well established fact that the guns came from the US.

Thing is the US population refuses to see the truth.

And more and more proof will come that these sales, plus ILLEGAL gun running (ILLEGAL, not legal sales. The US has gun runners selling has tons and tons of weapons in your soil) are moving south to Mexico.


Wishing the US would stop using drugs? Ain't going to happen, drugs are glamorized, even our elite use them, many consider drugs like cocaine relatively harmless. Can't get coke? Heck we have our in country made meth. Drugs, just like booze, are here to stay and that is a fact.

Stop illegal gun trafficing to Mexico? Stop buying them. As long as there is a market, someone, the US or someone else will fill it. AK-47s come from all over the world, probably easier to bring them in from down south anyway.

I read that most grenades come in from South or Central America.

Biggest problem I see in all this is the police are not on the side of the people, witness drugs openly sold with police watching over the transactions, police extorting people, etc, etc. Without an effective police force, crime runs rampant.

[Bbond]

BB. I knew someone would post that the guns do not come from the US.

One question: why should the cartels buy guns from South America when they have the US no more than 5 minutes away from them? Exact same reason US buys drugs from Mexico.

US buys drugs, Mexicans sell.

Mexicans buy guns, US sells.

Take away one or the other, ain't going to stop either.

Guns are legal in the US, drugs are not legal in US or Mexico.

[MonterreyDude]

I agree.

The thing is that slowly but surely gun runners are being exposed.

Hopefuly that will slow down the trade, the ammount and the calibre of the weapons sold to Mexico.


Exact same reason US buys drugs from Mexico.

US buys drugs, Mexicans sell.

Mexicans buy guns, US sells.

Take away one or the other, ain't going to stop either.

Guns are legal in the US, drugs are not legal in US or Mexico.

[Member #3453]

I agree.

The thing is that slowly but surely gun runners are being exposed.

Hopefuly that will slow down the trade, the ammount and the calibre of the weapons sold to Mexico.

There is plenty of finger pointing to go around...

An individual who swears on the ATF Federal Form, claiming that they are purchasing the firearm for their own use, with the intention of smuggling it into Mexico, is guilty of a Federal Crime.

But, it's also a Federal Crime to illegally enter the United States. So, due in part to 12,000,000 to 18,000,000 law breakers, the United States is almost bankrupt.

Lets see, in order to even the score, that means we owe our Mexican neighbors at least 12,000,000 to 18,000,000 firearms. We have not even scratched the surface in fulfilling our quota... :-)))))

[Jinxx]

There is plenty of finger pointing to go around.

An individual who swears on the ATF Federal Form, claiming that they are purchasing the firearm for their own use, with the intention of smuggling it into Mexico, is guilty of a Federal Crime.

But, it's also a Federal Crime to illegally enter the United States. So, due in part to 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 law breakers, the United States is almost bankrupt.

Lets see, in order to even the score, that means we owe our Mexican neighbors at least 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 firearms. We have not even scratched the surface in fulfilling our quota.) Yea. 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 law breakers who work harder and cheaper than legal americans. 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 consumers who buy food, housing, clothes, cars, entertainment, and luxury goods. The 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 law breakers who pay billions of dollars of taxes every year. (Yes illegal aliens pay taxes, often times more than legal americans.) The US could stop illegal immigration any time it wants to, but it will never happen because this country benefits too much from it. Same thing with drugs. We could stop the drug flow at any time or solve the problems drugs cause by legalizing them, but it will never happen because too many people benefit from the way things are now.

Not a cool or funny analogy at all."Yea let's pay Mexico back for sending us cheap labor and consumers by supplying them with the tools they can use to terrorize and mass-murder eachother." Ha ha!

Not cool at all.

[Bbond]

The thing is that slowly but surely gun runners are being exposed.

Hopefuly that will slow down the trade, the ammount and the calibre of the weapons sold to Mexico. Below is from http://www.chandlerswatch.com/2010/04/04/heavily-armed-drug-cartel-criminals-attack-mexican-army/

Most of the guns that Mexico has seized from the cartels and asked the BATFE to trace (because markings on those particular firearms indicated that they came from the USA) represent only a small percentage of guns that Mexico has seized.

Research it, no-one can statistically support that the US is the major arms supplier to the drug cartels.

Sure it is claimed the majority are from the US, but that claim cannot be supported.

Then this...http://groups.google.com*******frontera-list/browse_thread/thread/815aaaa6c6e37644

As of August 2010 the Mexican military had seized 180,000+ arms from the cartels, the cartels still have a good number more, to say the majority of all that came from the US is unsupportable.

Also..http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/

"In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S."

[Marius 67]

what is the point of this. just to spread fear. were there any specific target (s). maybe to gauge the reaction of the police. maybe to set them up for an ambush. whatever the reason. this and the grenades are the worst of all.

it is so crazy here. on the surface all is well, if you have ever been to money terra rey. you know how modern it is and rich it is and how many people are put and about all over the place. it seems really 'civilized'. there are cops all over, and you don't see any obvious signs of any trouble. but then out of the blue. here comes a convoy of militares. in full combat gear, faces covered, guns at the ready. you wonder why. everything seems ok. what is up. sometimes i write things that to some people might portray monterrey as a war zone. as in what we all visualize as a war zone. bombs bursting in air. pitched battles etc. but that is not the way it really is.

to the untrained eye. not one thing is out of place. but after a while you start to see it. people run traffic lights. speed. throw trash write graffiti everywhere. borrachos on the street sleeping. side walks all broken up. no lines on the roads to mark where you park or drive. people begging in the streets or at the intersections. the halcones hanging out. the strange guys with the mean look in their eyes. prostitutes. the brothels. painted pink with a neon sign that just says 'open'. the dirty gritty streets, buildings half completed. half falling down. horns honking. busses all marked up painted a mix of diverse color schemes. some brand new, others antigue looking, flying in all directions. exhaust fumes. people who are either scurrying or seem to be in some sort of a trance walking right out in the street. unaware of their own safety.

and in the wealthier areas the trendy bars and restaurants, the new cars. shiny people. expensive shops. at least as fancy and high tech as anything you will see in an american city. you can feel the money. and from the people the arrogant attitude.

there seems to be no concept of social conciousness from the upper classes towards the lower classes. no connectedness. not even enough to to maintain utilities, roads or other systems used by everyone.

this is to me a social war, and is the most apparent war. then when you watch the news and see the bodys. or actually see the blood on the streets from a recent killing, it combines. i used to tell people the most dangerous thing about monterrey is the possibility of getting ran over by a bus, that is still there. but now that is compounded by the possibility of being blown up by a car bomb.

is monterrey a war zone. not in the traditional sense, at least not yet. but it is a war zone, . the kind that slowly creeps up on your mind.

it seems like there are two kinds of people here.

the poor who are uneducated, and have been brutalized to the point that they don't know how to behave properly.

and the wealthy who are educated. but are so arrogant that they don't feel that they should have to behave in a civilized manner.

many of the wealthy here are just the descendants of criminals of some generations ago who were successful enough to kill their way to the top and become 'legitimate'. they are proverbial educated, well dressed wolves. only now with perfect fangs and manicured claws.

the criminals and lower classes of today know this and also know that it is within their grasp to attain the same status. to me that is why the corruption and lawlessness in mexico is so hard to stop.

just a little yokel rant that occurred to me while i was fighting my way through traffic yesterday.

[MonterreyDude]

bb... i trust you.
but i don't believe your sources.

specially fox news.

you do not get my point:

1. gun runners are illegaly selling weapons to mexico via the us. that does not mean they are sold in the us.

2. 750 weapons bought legally have been confirep001ed within the us in a single sizure and you still say that the us is not selling guns to mexican cartels... i mean 750 weapons is a heafty number. plus it is only one seziure of weapons. heaven knows how many more have crossed in to mexico thru the years.

3. again i ask: why should cartels buy guns via south america if they have the us one stone throw away? it is time and money.
and let me point a nice hole in your theory: you really think guns bought in south america can get clear into the northern part of mexico, via land?
answering yes put you on the side of the ignorant, and you are not that bbond.
no weapons would get to the north of mexico cause the southern cartels would not allow their enemies get armed. specially la famila that is mortal enemy of both los zetas and the cartel de sinaloa.
and as i recall, the weapons confirep001ed in arizona were for the cartel de sinaloa.
ok, they get to northern mexico via sea... come on, it's easier to get gun runners in the us to sell them guns.
time and money again.



below is from.

http://www.chandlerswatch.com/2010/04/04/heavily-armed-drug-cartel-criminals-attack-mexican-army/

most of the guns that mexico has seized from the cartels and asked the batfe to trace (because markings on those particular firearms indicated that they came from the usa) represent only a small percentage of guns that mexico has seized.

research it, no-one can statistically support that the us is the major arms supplier to the drug cartels.

sure it is claimed the majority are from the us, but that claim cannot be supported.

then this.

http://groups.google.com*******frontera-list/browse_thread/thread/815aaaa6c6e37644

as of august 2010 the mexican military had seized 180, 000+ arms from the cartels, the cartels still have a good number more, to say the majority of all that came from the us is unsupportable.

also.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/

"in other words. 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. and when you weed out the roughly 6, 000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in mexico could not be traced to the usa"

[Member #3453]

Yea. 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 law breakers who work harder and cheaper than legal americans. 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 consumers who buy food, housing, clothes, cars, entertainment, and luxury goods. The 12, 000, 000 to 18, 000, 000 law breakers who pay billions of dollars of taxes every year. (Yes illegal aliens pay taxes, often times more than legal americans.) The US could stop illegal immigration any time it wants to, but it will never happen because this country benefits too much from it. Same thing with drugs. We could stop the drug flow at any time or solve the problems drugs cause by legalizing them, but it will never happen because too many people benefit from the way things are now.

Not a cool or funny analogy at all."Yea let's pay Mexico back for sending us cheap labor and consumers by supplying them with the tools they can use to terrorize and mass-murder eachother." Ha ha!

Not cool at all. My point was, it is illegal to sneak across the border of the United States, and it's just as illegal smuggling guns into Mexico. It's illegal purchasing guns if you're a resident of Mexico, and it's illegal purchasing illegal drugs if you're a resident of the US and Mexico. It's illegal sneaking into Mexico, and it's illegal sneaking into the US.

Lets dispense with the rhetoric and analyze the facts. Illegal aliens pay around $13 billion in taxes, and they cost the individual State governments $113 billion dollars in services. Those are the numbers that have been documented by IRS, and those numbers are according to reports from the individual border States, ALL OF WHICH claim to being virtually bankrupted, in part, by the negative effects of Illegal Immigration. Common sense dictates that the underground economy alone, where illegals are paid in cash, and their is no documentation of wages earned, represents an enormous black hole that many refuse to consider.

The rhetoric flies fast and furious as some advocate for both sides of the issue. There is an enormous amount of disingenuous rhetoric, but the 13 billion versus 113 billion is what can be officially documented. The debate about the illegals being good people, their work ethic, whether they pay taxes, their underground contribution to the US economy, and / or their motivations, and all the rest of the stupid rhetoric that both sides throw around, is totally and completely irrelevant.

They are mostly good people, they are some of the very best workers, they are for the most part reliable, and most are understandably only seeking a better life. But, that doesn't excuse the FACT that they are violating US Federal Law. That doesn't negate the security risk to the US with respect to terrorism and criminal enterprise associated with hordes of undocumented individuals flooding across the border.

With regard to BBonds statistics concerning guns that have been identified by serial number as coming from the United States, he is absolutely, positively correct. I do not get those numbers from Fox News. Those are numbers published directly by ATF following a joint investigation conducted with the cooperation of the Mexican Government. Most of the guns in Mexico are acquired by Mexicanos illegally. That, of course, is just another monumental detrimental result occurring as a result of their being a huge number of undocumented illegal aliens using false IDs, false SSNs, etc. The porous border problem can also be blamed directly for the supposed illegal firearm problem occurring in Mexico through straw purchase sales from Gun Dealers in the border States.

There simply is no logical excuse for people advocating for open borders when trying to control crime, terrorism, guns, etc...The advocates of open borders, or those justifying illegal immigration on humanitarian grounds, fail to consider all the fall-out that results from undocumented aliens. The effects of illegal immigration upon the security of sovereign nations is monumental.

With respect to blaming the US for the category of weapons being smuggled into Mexico, it is illegal to possess automatic weapons in the US without a license. Those licenses are $3000 per firearm. Those having legal possession of automatic weapons are audited by ATF to confirm their receipt and possession of those weapons on an annual basis. Dealers and individuals licensed to possess automatic weapons damn well better have those weapons in their possession, or have a verifiable disposition for those weapons, or they will be in prison, and much more quickly than were they to have committed murder. Individual owners of automatic weapons are individually investigated by ATF before they're issued a license to possess an automatic weapon. There is NO fraud associated with procuring such licenses because ATF agents personally thoroughly investigate each and every applicant for such a license, so much so that obtaining a license leaves no question as to the legality of the legal purchase. Class 1 dealers in the US, which consists of the majority of gun dealers along the border, and throughout the USA, are not permitted to purchase or sell automatic weapons. Only Class 3 dealers are permitted to do so, and they are very closely scrutinized. Therefore, if automatic weapons are making it into Mexico, they are not being procured legally. They are being hijacked from shipment, or stolen from government stock piles, etc...but, they are not being obtained through legal channels. In other words, automatic weapons are making it to Mexico through criminal enterprises, both in the US and Mexico.

It is also disingenuous to blame the point of origin for illegal firearms slipping into Mexico. When anyone makes that same claim about drugs, some are only too quick to blame the "users" of drugs, and somehow the point of origin seems to escape the debate. Don't misunderstand, with illegal drugs, both of them being illegal in both countries, the blame should be squarely placed upon the drug dealers and the users. And, of course, the governments should be blamed for letting it happen.

Legal ownership of Firearms is legal in the US. The fact that weapons are manufactured in the US is a bogus excuse for blaming the US for the mayhem occurring in Mexico. The "people" of Mexico are illegally procuring those firearms, and they are guilty of a crime in Mexico through mere possession. I suppose the offending Mexicanos are blameless in the whole scenario.

If you apply this same logic to drugs, some are eager to blame the drug problem on the US because the people in the US purchase drugs. But, following that same "point of origin" argument used to blame the proliferation of guns in Mexico, whom is to blame with respect to the supply of drugs flooding into the US?

Automobiles are manufactured in the US too. According to that same twisted "point of origin" argument, the US is to blame for deaths occurring as a result of automobile accidents where the vehicles involved in deadly accidents were US made vehicles. According to "point of origin" logic, and no "individual responsibility," I suppose the drivers in deadly accidents should be considered blameless.

My comment regarding the 12-18 million illegal aliens, and the correlation between illegal guns being smuggled into Mexico, illustrates my frustration with the finger pointing rhetoric that abounds, the excuses for illegal behavior on both counts, and the lack of resolve to hold individuals and governments accountable for ignoring their responsibilities.

With respect to illegal immigration, if I have to be scrutinized when traveling into Mexico, and upon re-entry into my own country, then I want the same kind of scrutiny on visitors, immigrants, illegal or not, to make sure that all people are equally documented and scrutinized before they are permitted to live, work, and/or visit the USA.

[Member #3453]

bb. i trust you.

but i don't believe your sources.

specially fox news.

you do not get my point:

1. gun runners are illegaly selling weapons to mexico via the us. that does not mean they are sold in the us.

2. 750 weapons bought legally have been confirep001ed within the us in a single sizure and you still say that the us is not selling guns to mexican cartels. i mean 750 weapons is a heafty number. plus it is only one seziure of weapons. heaven knows how many more have crossed in to mexico thru the years.

3. again i ask: why should cartels buy guns via south america if they have the us one stone throw away? it is time and money.

and let me point a nice hole in your theory: you really think guns bought in south america can get clear into the northern part of mexico, via land?

answering yes put you on the side of the ignorant, and you are not that bbond.

no weapons would get to the north of mexico cause the southern cartels would not allow their enemies get armed. specially la famila that is mortal enemy of both los zetas and the cartel de sinaloa.

and as i recall, the weapons confirep001ed in arizona were for the cartel de sinaloa.

ok, they get to northern mexico via sea. come on, it's easier to get gun runners in the us to sell them guns.

time and money again.

lets clarify the rhetoric. i have long been outraged by the perception that mexicanos are not typically permitted to possess firearms. so, i've done some research to clarify that issue, and i can also statistically challenge this rhetoric about the us being the source of the majority of firearms and explosives used at the hands of the cartels.

the constitution of 1917, article 10, as amended, states: the inhabitants of the united mexican states have a right to arms in their homes, for security and legitimate defense, with the exception of arms prohibited by federal law and those reserved for the exclusive use of the army, navy, air force and national guard. federal law will determine the cases, conditions, requirements, and places in which the carrying of arms will be authorized to the inhabitants. mexicanos are legally permitted to purchase certain firearms from a mexican agency called ucam. the selection of models is restricted, but those selections include many of those same models that are being confirep001ed from the cartels.

guns positively traced directly to the united states, according to reports published by atf, equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in mexico. this means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in mexico were not traced back directly to the united states.

that 12% is just another result of their being a huge number of undocumented illegal aliens using false ids, false ssns, straw purchases, etc. the porous border problem can also be blamed directly for the supposed bogus charge that the us is the origin of illegal firearms and explosives being used by the cartels in mexico.

a very large portion of guns used by criminals are actually purchased in mexico, or stolen from their legitimate owners, who have purchased them through ucam, the mexican agency that sells mexican nationals their legal firearms. while ucam does have very strict regulations for civilians to purchase guns in mexico, criminals will use straw purchasers to obtain firearms from ucam, and/or obtain them from corrupt officials.

ucam is a mexican run agency. how many of us have faith in the integrity that there is little or no graft or corruption occurring in this agency? mexican agencies do not have the most stellar track record with respect to ethics, legality, justice, competence, etc...

it is not uncommon to see 38 super pistols seized from cartel figures, which is a caliber that is not popular in the united states. many of these pistols are of mexican origin. likewise, cartel hit men commonly use 380 pistols equipped with sound suppressors in their assassinations. in many cases, these pistols are purchased in mexico, the suppressors are locally manufactured, and the guns are adapted to receive the suppressors by mexican underworld gunsmiths.

with regard to tovex, grenades, ieds, etc...latin america is awash in weapons that were shipped-in over the past several decades from international sources of manufacture in order to supply the various insurgencies and counter insurgencies in that region of the world. when these military-grade weapons are combined with the rampant corruption in the region, they quickly find their way into the black market.

the mexican cartels have supply-chain contacts that help move narcotics to mexico from south america and they are able to use this same network to obtain guns from the black market in south and central america and then smuggle them into mexico. that is infinitely easier than to supposedly procure these from the us, where they are heavily regulated.

law rockets and m60 machine guns come into mexico from third world countries and not directly from the united states. most of the military ordnance used by the mexican cartels comes from the international illegal arms market, and increasingly from china, via the same networks that furnish precursor chemicals for narcotics manufacturing. these kinds of weapons also come from corrupt elements in the mexican military, and/or from deserters who take their weapons with them.

items such as south korean fragmentation grenades and rpg-7s, often used by the cartels, simply are not in the usa arsenal. this means that very few of the weapons in this category come from the united states, yet they are being used in significant numbers by the cartels.

it is not accurate to assign blame to the usa for the heinous acts of the cartels using firearms and/or explosives just because some of these firearms, which are legally made in the us (12% to be exact), some even legally available for sale in mexico, are procured illegally in mexico on the black market from other world-wide illegitimate sources.

[Jinxx]

My point was, it is illegal to sneak across the border of the United States, and it's just as illegal smuggling guns into Mexico. It's illegal purchasing guns if you're a resident of Mexico, and it's illegal purchasing illegal drugs if you're a resident of the US and Mexico. It's illegal sneaking into Mexico, and it's illegal sneaking into the US.

Lets dispense with the rhetoric and analyze the facts. Illegal aliens pay around $13 billion in taxes, and they cost the individual State governments $113 billion dollars in services. Those are the numbers that have been documented by IRS, and those numbers are according to reports from the individual border States, ALL OF WHICH claim to being virtually bankrupted, in part, by the negative effects of Illegal Immigration. Common sense dictates that the underground economy alone, where illegals are paid in cash, and their is no documentation of wages earned, represents an enormous black hole that many refuse to consider.

The rhetoric flies fast and furious as some advocate for both sides of the issue. There is an enormous amount of disingenuous rhetoric, but the 13 billion versus 113 billion is what can be officially documented. The debate about the illegals being good people, their work ethic, whether they pay taxes, their underground contribution to the US economy, and / or their motivations, and all the rest of the stupid rhetoric that both sides throw around, is totally and completely irrelevant.

They are mostly good people, they are some of the very best workers, they are for the most part reliable, and most are understandably only seeking a better life. But, that doesn't excuse the FACT that they are violating US Federal Law. That doesn't negate the security risk to the US with respect to terrorism and criminal enterprise associated with hordes of undocumented individuals flooding across the border.

With regard to BBonds statistics concerning guns that have been identified by serial number as coming from the United States, he is absolutely, positively correct. I do not get those numbers from Fox News. Those are numbers published directly by ATF following a joint investigation conducted with the cooperation of the Mexican Government. Most of the guns in Mexico are acquired by Mexicanos illegally. That, of course, is just another monumental detrimental result occurring as a result of their being a huge number of undocumented illegal aliens using false IDs, false SSNs, etc. The porous border problem can also be blamed directly for the supposed illegal firearm problem occurring in Mexico through straw purchase sales from Gun Dealers in the border States.

There simply is no logical excuse for people advocating for open borders when trying to control crime, terrorism, guns, etc. The advocates of open borders, or those justifying illegal immigration on humanitarian grounds, fail to consider all the fall-out that results from undocumented aliens. The effects of illegal immigration upon the security of sovereign nations is monumental.

With respect to blaming the US for the category of weapons being smuggled into Mexico, it is illegal to possess automatic weapons in the US without a license. Those licenses are $3000 per firearm. Those having legal possession of automatic weapons are audited by ATF to confirm their receipt and possession of those weapons on an annual basis. Dealers and individuals licensed to possess automatic weapons damn well better have those weapons in their possession, or have a verifiable disposition for those weapons, or they will be in prison, and much more quickly than were they to have committed murder. Individual owners of automatic weapons are individually investigated by ATF before they're issued a license to possess an automatic weapon. There is NO fraud associated with procuring such licenses because ATF agents personally thoroughly investigate each and every applicant for such a license, so much so that obtaining a license leaves no question as to the legality of the legal purchase. Class 1 dealers in the US, which consists of the majority of gun dealers along the border, and throughout the USA, are not permitted to purchase or sell automatic weapons. Only Class 3 dealers are permitted to do so, and they are very closely scrutinized. Therefore, if automatic weapons are making it into Mexico, they are not being procured legally. They are being hijacked from shipment, or stolen from government stock piles, etc. But, they are not being obtained through legal channels. In other words, automatic weapons are making it to Mexico through criminal enterprises, both in the US and Mexico.

It is also disingenuous to blame the point of origin for illegal firearms slipping into Mexico. When anyone makes that same claim about drugs, some are only too quick to blame the "users" of drugs, and somehow the point of origin seems to escape the debate. Don't misunderstand, with illegal drugs, both of them being illegal in both countries, the blame should be squarely placed upon the drug dealers and the users. And, of course, the governments should be blamed for letting it happen.

Legal ownership of Firearms is legal in the US. The fact that weapons are manufactured in the US is a bogus excuse for blaming the US for the mayhem occurring in Mexico. The "people" of Mexico are illegally procuring those firearms, and they are guilty of a crime in Mexico through mere possession. I suppose the offending Mexicanos are blameless in the whole scenario.

If you apply this same logic to drugs, some are eager to blame the drug problem on the US because the people in the US purchase drugs. But, following that same "point of origin" argument used to blame the proliferation of guns in Mexico, whom is to blame with respect to the supply of drugs flooding into the US?

Automobiles are manufactured in the US too. According to that same twisted "point of origin" argument, the US is to blame for deaths occurring as a result of automobile accidents where the vehicles involved in deadly accidents were US made vehicles. According to "point of origin" logic, and no "individual responsibility," I suppose the drivers in deadly accidents should be considered blameless.

My comment regarding the 12-18 million illegal aliens, and the correlation between illegal guns being smuggled into Mexico, illustrates my frustration with the finger pointing rhetoric that abounds, the excuses for illegal behavior on both counts, and the lack of resolve to hold individuals and governments accountable for ignoring their responsibilities.

With respect to illegal immigration, if I have to be scrutinized when traveling into Mexico, and upon re-entry into my own country, then I want the same kind of scrutiny on visitors, immigrants, illegal or not, to make sure that all people are equally documented and scrutinized before they are permitted to live, work, and / or visit the USA.I don't want to say whether or not illegal immigration into the USA is a negative or a positive. I was only trying to say that it's unfair to say that since masses of people are sneaking in to the country from Mexico it is justifiable for us to wholesale large quantities of high powered weapons to some of the nastiest, most brutal people on the planet whose sole agenda is to wreak havoc and terrorize the people of Mexico.

You are absolutely right in that many parties are to blame for illegal immigration. The debate whether illegal immigration is overall good or bad is never-ending and I don't think this is the forum in which to discuss it.

I don't think anybody is going to argue that selling arms to crime organizations is in any way, shape, or for a positive thing.

Damn, am I to blame for starting this whole discussion about the security situation, cartels, and crime, etc, etc?

From now on I'll try to stick to the subject at hand (pussy). Sorry about the thread derail guys.

[MonterreyDude]

my friend, you will not get it till you see it in your front yard.

and you just don't get the point.

they us goverment slowly is accpeting that weapons in mexico come from the us, but the nra is burrying anything due to the power they have.

when i mentioned gun runners, i did not say these gun runners were buyin their guns at walmart and selling them to mexico.

they are getting them from the west coast and moving them to mexico.

of course they come from asia. but they end in mexico.

that is what i mean by gun runners.

you do not get the part of the southern cartels cause you do not know any of them asides from zetas and cdg.

there are over 20 cartels in mexico.

the southern ones el centro, la familia, are in constant war with the cartel de sinaloa, cartel de tijuana, la linea, cartel de juarez, cdg, zetas.

"guns positively traced directly to the united states, according to reports published by atf, equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in mexico. this means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in mexico were not traced back directly to the united states."

this part you got from the nra and fox news. pure unadulterated bs.

this is from an article published 2 years ago and this year am sure they will reprint it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/

april 2 2009.... two years ago.

but if you believe in blogs, which i don't, same way i never trust fox news (no one in the rest of the world reprints a fox news article) you might like to read the analysis of this guy:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/counting-mexicos-guns/

quoting and i copy/paste sen. dick durbin (d-ill.) and sen. dianne feinstein (d-calif.) that the figure is 90% from the us.
completely the other way around.
but i like what he says, he says that both fox and the atf are wrong and that the figure is ellusive.

in past years the cartels used to erase the serial numbers. that's why they coudln't be trace to the us.

now they don't care. that's why the number of guns trace to the us is increasing.

that is why the atf is hitting armories in texas, new mexico and arizona now.

cause they are tracing the guns back to them.


anyway, let us trust fox news:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/02/senator-calls-atf-allegations-agency-allowing-guns-mexico/

the atf is allowing guns to be smuggled into mexico.
that is pure and unadultered corruption of a goverment agency.
but then, this is fox news true to it's form: "none of the claims about the atf allowing guns to cross the border have been conclusively proved. but sen. grassley has called for the atf to be more transparent to allow the truth to come out."

after throwing the stone, they hide their hand. pure bible parable.
distortion of the truth and lies close to truth... true dr. goebbles at work here.

"a very large portion of guns used by criminals are actually purchased in mexico, or stolen from their legitimate owners, who have purchased them through ucam, the mexican agency that sells mexican nationals their legal firearms. while ucam does have very strict regulations for civilians to purchase guns in mexico, criminals will use straw purchasers to obtain firearms from ucam, and / or obtain them from corrupt officials"

caliber of guns sold in mexico legally do not go over handguns and then, no more than. 38 soft calibers.

no super guns are sold to the general public.

and iam blaming the us for being the number one drug consumer of the world that has mexico as it is right now.

get it???




lets clarify the rhetoric. i have long been outraged by the perception that mexicanos are not typically permitted to possess firearms. so, i've done some research to clarify that issue, and i can also statistically challenge this rhetoric about the us being the source of the majority of firearms and explosives used at the hands of the cartels.

the constitution of 1917, article 10, as amended, states: the inhabitants of the united mexican states have a right to arms in their homes, for security and legitimate defense, with the exception of arms prohibited by federal law and those reserved for the exclusive use of the army, navy, air force and national guard. federal law will determine the cases, conditions, requirements, and places in which the carrying of arms will be authorized to the inhabitants. mexicanos are legally permitted to purchase certain firearms from a mexican agency called ucam. the selection of models is restricted, but those selections include many of those same models that are being confirep001ed from the cartels.

guns positively traced directly to the united states, according to reports published by atf, equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in mexico. this means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in mexico were not traced back directly to the united states.

that 12% is just another result of their being a huge number of undocumented illegal aliens using false ids, false ssns, straw purchases, etc. the porous border problem can also be blamed directly for the supposed bogus charge that the us is the origin of illegal firearms and explosives being used by the cartels in mexico.

a very large portion of guns used by criminals are actually purchased in mexico, or stolen from their legitimate owners, who have purchased them through ucam, the mexican agency that sells mexican nationals their legal firearms. while ucam does have very strict regulations for civilians to purchase guns in mexico, criminals will use straw purchasers to obtain firearms from ucam, and / or obtain them from corrupt officials.

ucam is a mexican run agency. how many of us have faith in the integrity that there is little or no graft or corruption occurring in this agency? mexican agencies do not have the most stellar track record with respect to ethics, legality, justice, competence, etc.

it is not uncommon to see 38 super pistols seized from cartel figures, which is a caliber that is not popular in the united states. many of these pistols are of mexican origin. likewise, cartel hit men commonly use 380 pistols equipped with sound suppressors in their assassinations. in many cases, these pistols are purchased in mexico, the suppressors are locally manufactured, and the guns are adapted to receive the suppressors by mexican underworld gunsmiths.

with regard to tovex, grenades, ieds, etc. latin america is awash in weapons that were shipped-in over the past several decades from international sources of manufacture in order to supply the various insurgencies and counter insurgencies in that region of the world. when these military-grade weapons are combined with the rampant corruption in the region, they quickly find their way into the black market.

the mexican cartels have supply-chain contacts that help move narcotics to mexico from south america and they are able to use this same network to obtain guns from the black market in south and central america and then smuggle them into mexico. that is infinitely easier than to supposedly procure these from the us, where they are heavily regulated.

law rockets and m60 machine guns come into mexico from third world countries and not directly from the united states. most of the military ordnance used by the mexican cartels comes from the international illegal arms market, and increasingly from china, via the same networks that furnish precursor chemicals for narcotics manufacturing. these kinds of weapons also come from corrupt elements in the mexican military, and / or from deserters who take their weapons with them.

items such as south korean fragmentation grenades and rpg-7s, often used by the cartels, simply are not in the usa arsenal. this means that very few of the weapons in this category come from the united states, yet they are being used in significant numbers by the cartels.

it is not accurate to assign blame to the usa for the heinous acts of the cartels using firearms and / or explosives just because some of these firearms, which are legally made in the us (12% to be exact) , some even legally available for sale in mexico, are procured illegally in mexico on the black market from other world-wide illegitimate sources.

[Member #3453]

Damn, am I to blame for starting this whole discussion about the security situation, cartels, and crime, etc, etc? From now on I'll try to stick to the subject at hand (pussy). Sorry about the thread derail guys.

Don't fret over a thread derail. Besides, you aren't derailing anything. The hordes of members that could post their mongering activities, don't or won't (sarcasm). The point is, nothing is stopped them from posting their experiences. They are either not out there, or they aren't mongering, or they aren't actually participating in the hobby to begin with, and really don't know anything of substance, or they are bashful, or whatever.

Commenting here, regardless of the side bar topics, keeps the forum vibrant because lurkers that are reluctant to comment sometimes prefer to contact some of us privately for opinions or advice. So, maintaining participation, even through side tracked comments, has it's obscure value.

Besides, our comments aren't really totally unrelated to the subject at hand. The discussions we often have are directly related to our safety, living and negotiating life in Mexico, etc...Side comments about the conditions on the ground in Monterrey are relevant to our overall assessment of how things really are.

Besides, it is better that we all post "anything," even if it's slightly off topic, rather than allow the forum to go dark, which believe me, it will do were we all relegated to commenting strictly on mongering experiences.

Some members do occasionally post something concrete with respect to mongering, but most of us don't care to post stuff that we've already commented on because we've already commented on certain aspects of things a thousand times over the years. So, if something occurs in our mongering path that's notable, or unique, we post it. Or, in the event we see an interesting or controversial post, or opposed point of view with respect to mongering, or living in Monterrey, we will usually comment with our personal opinions. To repeatedly post stuff that some of us have already commented on a thousand times gets tedious and boring for us.

[Bbond]

"Guns positively traced directly to the United States, according to reports published by ATF, equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico were not traced back directly to the United States."

This part you got from the NRA and Fox News. Pure unadulterated BS. Sorry but I had to post one last comment, now even the Mexican officials (STRATFOR) say 90% of the arms DON'T come from the US.

Falso, que 90% de armas de narco vengan de EU: Stratfor.

http://www.elmanana.com.mx/notas.asp?id=220276

[Member #3453]

The southern ones El Centro, La Familia, are in constant war with the Cartel de Sinaloa, Cartel de Tijuana, La Linea, Cartel de Juarez, CDG, Zetas.

Quoting and I copy / paste Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) that the figure is 90% from the US.

But then, this is Fox News true to it's form: "None of the claims about the ATF allowing guns to cross the border have been conclusively proved. But Sen. Grassley has called for the ATF to be more transparent to allow the truth to come out."

"Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), and Sen. Grassley?"

Hahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! I almost fell off my chair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)))

You forgot to include comments from:
Chris Mathews, Al Gore, Barney Frank, Dennis Kucinich, George Soros, Al Franken, Alan Greyson, Ted Kennedy (Oh, sorry, he's dead), Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, Janet Nepalitano, Arriana Huffington, Sonia Sotamayor, Harry Reid, Michael Moore, Frank Lautenberg, Barbara Mikulski, Chris Dodd, Rush Holt, Barbara Boxer, Henry Waxman, Charles Schumer, Anthony Weiner, Michael R. Bloomberg, etc...

Here's one scenario, just one...there are hundreds of others.

A submarine was captured by the Guatemalan Navy and US authorities 175 miles off of Guatemala's Pacific Coast. The submarine was bound for Guatemala after being loaded in Colombia. The drugs were bound for the United States after the drug couriers were to have smuggled the drugs into.........guess where............ MEXICO.

How hard is it to load automatic weapons, explosives, and pistols into a submarine? Most of the cartels have more money than most South American Countries, and an old submarine would be a drop in their proverbial bucket. The cartels are arguably wealthier than the country of Mexico, whose own armed forces seem almost totally ineffective against their might.

The Cartels in the North are simply bringing the drugs and the arms into Mexico by a variety of means, one of which is submarines, and these various other means cut the Southern Cartels completely out of the scenario.

Why do you think the Cartels are killing each other anyway? Because the Cartels in the North are being effective against the Cartels in the South, and visa versa. Nobody controls anything, including the Mexican Military.

Were anyone in particular in control, we would have relative peace in Mexico. Several years ago, the government and the cartels had agreements, which is why we had peace in Mexico several years ago...

[Jinxx]

Several years ago, the government and the cartels had agreements, which is why we had peace in Mexico several years ago...This is exactly what we need to go back to! Peace! If gringos want to buy drugs, THEN SELL THEM DRUGS!

What on god's green earth does Mexico have to gain by hopelessly fighting against the cartels?

If the cartels want to traffic drugs into the US the Mexican politicos should just take their bribe, let the traffickers pass peacefully, and go on about their busines. IN PEACE.

Americans want to complain about illegal immigrants and drugs coming across the border, WELL CONTROL YOUR F*CKING BORDER! It's that simple. Build your wall, beef up the border patrol, send out your drones and remote cameras. Problem solved. What's stopping you?

Mexicans need to wake up and realize that this war on drugs isn't ours to fight. Let the gringos deal with that crap, we have enough problems of our own. (BTW, I'm Mexican-American so I love / hate both countries equally.).

[Marius 67]

Wow. Just saw the news today. There is no hope in Mexico. The country is in a panic mode. 17 killed in Juarez. 35 injured and 9 killed in Guadalajara; 5 killed in Nayarit. 2 more cops die in Monterrey. All of this happend this week. The facts are there Spongebob. It is not safe in Mexico. You can literally go to Mexico and murder someone randomly and there will be no investigation. It's lawless.

Travel Warnings have been posted with DPS.

Basically, it's not about "drugs" anymore. It's about extortion!

It's really, really bad right now.

[Member #3453]

this is exactly what we need to go back to! peace! if gringos want to buy drugs, then sell them drugs!

what on god's green earth does mexico have to gain by hopelessly fighting against the cartels?

if the cartels want to traffic drugs into the us the mexican politicos should just take their bribe, let the traffickers pass peacefully, and go on about their busines. in peace.

americans want to complain about illegal immigrants and drugs coming across the border, well control your f*cking border! it's that simple. build your wall, beef up the border patrol, send out your drones and remote cameras. problem solved. what's stopping you?

mexicans need to wake up and realize that this war on drugs isn't ours to fight. let the gringos deal with that crap, we have enough problems of our own. (btw, i'm mexican-american so i love / hate both countries equally.).

while many factors have contributed to the escalating violence, the beginning of the increasing violence can be traced back to the unraveling of a longtime arrangement between narcotics traffickers, the federal mexican government, and their state and local governmental agencies, which were controlled by the institutional revolutionary party (pri).

the pri lost its grip on political power starting in the late 1980s. but, during their reign they brokered agreements between the various cartels, which were much smaller in number, and therefore considerably more manageable. during this period, and to a certain extent, under vicente fox, things were really pretty calm in monterrey. i've often said you could walk the streets of el centro monterrey at 4am in the morning several years ago, prior to calderon, and be relatively safe, much more so than in any of the major downtown areas of any comparable us city.

prior to vicente fox, who mildly targeted the cartels as compared to calderon, the drug cartels and the mexican government were complicit with one another, and there was comparatively little violence as a result. by severing the government's complicit cooperation with the cartels, and actively pursuing them as criminals, the government escalated the violence between the cartels, which was bound to occur anyway to some extent, but perhaps not to the extent that has been experienced under calderon's aggressive pursuit of the cartels as criminal enterprises.

however, because of the increased number of cartels in the mix, and other political factors that now exist between the higher number of cartels, i'm not so sure that a deescalation of attempted control of the drug cartels would significantly reduce the violence. there are simply too many cartels now wanting a piece of the pie, and that kind of rivalry will increase the violence. so, while we might blame the mexican government's pursuit of drug cartels as criminal enterprises, the violence would have logically escalated as the numbers of additional cartels cropped up. the money is just too alluring, and the needs in mexico are just too great.

i believe the mexican government is growing increasingly concerned that the drug cartels directly threaten their own sovereignty. nobody likes to give up power, and the cartels are now arguably as powerful in mexico as the government itself. were the government to withdraw from the fight, they would likely be ensuring their own demise, becoming just puppets for the cartels, and the entire country of mexico would be just one big criminal enterprise, which some might argue is almost the case these days.

so, the argument that eliminating and regulating drugs may be the only solution. the government knows that were they to relinquish complete control of mexico to organized crime, many other criminal enterprises would flourish, and they would further damage mexican society as a whole. it isn't just about drugs for the government. allowing criminal enterprises to run whole countries can have nothing but a detrimental effect upon the lives of average, god fearing, good mexican citizens.

but, i can totally understand, and possibly agree with, why vicente fox has been calling for the legalization of drugs the last couple of years. it takes the profitability out of the scenario, and it removes the source of power for the cartels by cutting off the money that gives them the power to begin with.

if legalization is the ultimate solution to the violence, then a well regulated legalization of drugs, along with a huge, and i mean absolutely monumental, propaganda campaign to discourage it's use in mexico, and the us, might ultimately be the best solution. it would have to be a joint effort of strict regulation between the us and mexico, and there would have to be considerable effort made to discourage the use of drugs, perhaps tying penalties to the way drugs are used, rather than the mere possession and purchase.

for example, the penalties in the us have become much more strict for the use of alcohol. the penalties for the incorrect use of alcohol, ie: drinking and driving, drunk in public, etc...have become much more effective over the last twenty years. and, as a result of a relatively effective public service advertising campaign by groups like mad, there has become a much greater social stigma to drinking and driving.

that's the only way to responsibly legalize drugs, and reduce the overall damage drugs cause to society. drug use would have to be monitored, not permitted in public, or private parties, etc...drug use, through stigmatizing it's use with the young, would be the only responsible way to legalize and regulate it's purchase, and possession.

actual drug "use," as in where and how drugs can be legally used or possessed, would have to be heavily regulated. that would take the money out of the scenario, and it would considerably reduce the power of the mexican and us drug cartels. but, obtaining it would be legal, taking the money out of it, but at the same time criminalizing it's use under circumstances that would be detrimental to society as a whole, and to the fabric of american/mexican society and culture.

take firearms as an example...firearms are well regulated in the us, and their proper use is well regulated. but, they are legal to purchase and possess with the proper documentation and government approval, which took the money out of the whole scenario. were guns illegal in the us, they would be three to ten times their present cost, or more, just as they currently are in mexico now. but, the end result of legalization of the sale and possession of guns in the us has taken all the profit out of guns for the sellers. just ask any legitimate gun dealer in the us. now, of course, there is always a black market, and those sales will always yield higher profit margins. but, for the most part, legal guns in the us are cheap, and the only people actually making any money on guns are the gun runners making illegal sales, and smuggling guns to mexico, and other countries.

with respect to drugs, perhaps only permitting their use "alone," in private, with no other participants, no public possession permitted, etc...perhaps that would take the money out of procurement, decriminalizing it's use, but criminalizing the detrimental way in which drugs are possessed and used.

maybe with significant stigmatization of the use through advertising, propaganda, etc...it would not have the same appeal it currently has to so many millions of americans and mexicans. that would be the purest ultimate solution, so that demand is no longer what drives the industry. many people that become hooked on drugs do so on account of peer pressure, fitting-in, socialization, being accepted by peers, etc...and most that become part of the drug culture, do so at a young age.

the old farts don't give a shit whether they're popular or accepted, and they're smarter too, not wanting to add to what they know from experience is already a difficult life without adding other vices to drag one down. the stigmatizing of drug use would have to heavily target the young. obviously, there will always those people that will fall through the cracks, and ignore the warnings, even some old-farts. legalization might still be a problem for those who have a propensity for addictions of all kinds, but it would significantly reduce the overall violent affect of the drug industry as we know it today, both in the us and mexico, which many could argue is just as much a scourge on the culture and society of the us and mexico as the use of drugs.

[Member #3453]

Wow. Just saw the news today. There is no hope in Mexico. The country is in a panic mode. 17 killed in Juarez. 35 injured and 9 killed in Guadalajara; 5 killed in Nayarit. 2 more cops die in Monterrey. All of this happend this week. The facts are there Spongebob. It is not safe in Mexico. You can literally go to Mexico and murder someone randomly and there will be no investigation. It's lawless.

Travel Warnings have been posted with DPS.

Basically, it's not about "drugs" anymore. It's about extortion!

It's really, really bad right now.

Fine Marius, just stay on your side of the border. That just leaves more girls for me. Lets see, you sighted a total of 68 people this week, and of course, not all of them were "killed," that's total killed and injured.

Lets see, there are 5 million just living in the Monterrey area alone. I will conservatively estimate that between all the locations you just sighted for us, there are at least 10 million people.

If my math is correct, that is 1 in. 0000068. Talk to me when the odds are more like 1/1000 and I might listen. Until then, I'll take my chances.

[Beavis]

I have never heard of anybody being killed here in the good ole US of A. The American people are controlled by the media like puppets.

[Bbond]

i have never heard of anybody being killed here in the good ole us of a.me either, even other violent crimes, extorsion, muggings, car jacking, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), ect, are rare there, almost never happen.

[MonterreyDude]

you guys read this news bit from this past january?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/nyregion/21mob.html

this one made me really think what beavis says: if the media doesn't mention it, it doesn't happen.

he is totally right. media control.

one of the many articles related to this mentions at the end says and i quote:
"some believe organized crime is a thing of the past; unfortunately, there are still people who extort, intimidate, and victimize innocent americans. the costs legitimate businesses are forced to pay are ultimately borne by american consumers nationwide," fbi directorrobert s. mueller, iii, said in a statement.

it's at the very end of the article in this link.
and it's the only one of the whole that says that.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/huge-ny-mafia-bust-fbi-rounding-up-100-mobsters-114266444.html





me either, even other violent crimes, extorsion, muggings, car jacking, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), ect, are rare there, almost never happen.

[Member #3453]

that is 1 in. 0000068.If you're not involved in the drug business, and hanging around with drug people, etc. Your odds go down substantially. Many of the most recent killings are retribution killings between low level street criminals. They're all just taking advantage of the carnage and mayhem opportunities right now. They know that the authorities are overwhelmed, and their is virtually no investigation being conducted into the crimes they're committing.

[Larbo]

I just got back from a week in Monterrey. Was there from Sunday to Friday last week. Went to Infinito's three times, Little Infi once, and Marcella's once. Never saw a gun or knife, and was never shot at, punched, or stabbed. The worse thing that happened to me was a bit of condom rash from all the sex. Different hottie every night.

I'll take Monterrey over any large USA city anytime.

A bit of news. Little Infi isn't doing so well. My little blond spinner friend has moved back to Infinito's. Guess what? I was headed for little Infi the very next night to try out her tall long legged friend. Took her on a four hour tour of the king sized bed. Smokin'. Doesn't like to do BBBJ, but the rest is FINE. You can't miss her as she is the only looker left in the place.

[Beavis]

I just heard on CNN that the only remaining safe city in Mexico is Cancun. Word is that the Mexican touts are getting dollar two ninety-eight for gringo scalps on the black market. Outside of that the report confirms that 98% of all Americans that enter Mexico are killed by Assault Weapon, Thermonuclear Suppository, Scalping, or excessive Corn Holing. Better avoid Mexico except for Can-Coon.

[Larbo]

I just heard on CNN that the only remaining safe city in Mexico is Cancun. Word is that the Mexican touts are getting dollar two ninety-eight for gringo scalps on the black market. Outside of that the report confirms that 98% of all Americans that enter Mexico are killed by Assault Weapon, Thermonuclear Suppository, Scalping, or excessive Corn Holing. Better avoid Mexico except for Can-Coon.You have a great way to combat this over-hype. I love it.

[Member #3453]

Within the month of January there was 122 drug-related deaths here in monterrey compared to five in 2010. I don't know the total murders but maybe double. The other day the head of security of nuevo leon was shot inside his armored car and then burned in centro monterrrey for all to see. The army enforce the search of cars here on a daily basis. A shootout in a mall happen also with innocent wounded and one death. Many crimes are not reported as the police do not have time.

I present here to you before the words pendejo, ma m óand, puñeta, and antagonista. I would like also to present you the word wey.

A wey is someone who come to a internet foro and create other personalites to make him appear better or more smart. This happen only a few times on the monterrey foros because most other people already understand that the person make the other personalities and he is a ma m óand.

If someone call you a wey in monterrey, it is best you leave that person alone and go somewhere else. Lets analyze the English Grammar and sentence structure used by Mr. El Cazador in his most recent post, comparing it with the posts Mr. El Cazador has formerly posted on this forum.

El Cazedor's written English has suddenly become much more fluid in his most recent post, and lengthier than he typically posts. Punctuation is precise and correct.

I suspect there are not only people commenting here with clandestine screen names, but multiple individuals commenting using the shared El Cazedor screen name. More evidence of the conspiracy that persists from "El Cazedor."

Might I remind all of the "El Cazedors" that I have always believed that the El Cazedor screen name was linked to a "Group" of individuals that strive to sabotage the ISG, and to personally attack and insult the Senior Members that contribute to this forum.

That is, of course, a huge flagrant violation of forum rules. Eventually, I suspect the "El Cazedor" Group will suffer the same fate as others that have attempted to sabotage the forum for their own dubious purposes. Jackson will simply gather IP addresses, and that will be that...

Others have tried it, and they're gone. The Senior Members have been here for many years, and our posts are not even reviewed by the Administrators before posting immediately to the forum, real-time, which is typical of Senior Members postings that have a long standing reputation and trustee status with Jackson.

Jackson doesn't like people sabotaging his income stream, and he knows the Senior members are serving his purposes, and following the rules.

Were I the El Cazedor Group, I would not be surprised if someday the login for that screen name is no longer valid, and even more so, I would look forward to Jackson collecting your IP addresses, and banning them from the forum as well, so that no other screen names can be created without some logistical aggravation being necessary.

And, as Senior Members who are the target of Mr. El Cazedor take their accusations, the legitimate posters, people we have known for many years through the forum, and met in person, people whose screen names are legit, and whose reputations and wide range of experience are beyond reproach, are accused of being shills right along with the other screen names that refute the dubious claims of the El Cazedor groupo.

El Cazedor has no credibility, and never will, not because "they" disagree with "our" assessment, but because they persist in disagreeing without any politeness or decorum, and because we know your game. Disagreement is fine, but they have turned disagreement into contention. It is just a matter of time...But, with respect to the screen name "El Cazedor" having any credibility left, that time has come and gone.

[Beavis]

You have a great way to combat this over-hype. I love it.I go to the border 2 or 3 times a month. Sure I see the soldiers there but have had absolutely no problems whatsoever except with the depressed border economy the bartenders are making the margaritas about twice as strong. The only part I dread about going to the border is having to deal with these "Homeland Security" assholes once I get back on this side. I saw 2 Mexican ladys today in a Wal Mart (in Louisiana I might add) as one was admiring the other one's newborn anchor baby. I am not mistaken either as they were talking in Spanish.

"Huh Huh Huh, Homeland Security, what a bunch of dorks!"

[El Cazador]

Somebody mention here before our casinos. There are maybe over 20 casinos but not all have the card games. I believe that none have the dice. Our casinos are normally safe but in the last month the armed thieves have rob two casinos. I avise you to be careful when you leave the casino and try to have your own personal cab that you have the confidence with.

Yesterday 7 armed thieves rob a restaurant of 100 clients and make some of the woman get naked and create the harm to others. This is a new tipo of crime here as the thieves know that the police is too busy for the fast response.

I do not recommend a solo gringo come here and get drunk in el centro and stay into the morning hours.

[El Cazador]

"many people who make the reports here are actually the same person that use different names and use the same keyboard."

Uhmmm, how many times have I claimed that there are many disingenuous people with questionable motivations posting on ISG that are doing the very same thing that El Cazedor accuses some of our newer posters of doing. There have been numerous instances of members commenting with their own hidden agendas, and their made up, uninformed bogus reports. Anytime I happen to point this fact out, I've been directly and harshly criticized for making that very same comment about made up screen names, and dubious posts.

I don't have to hide behind other screen names to make comments about my legitimate experiences in Monterrey, nor do my opinions of dubious posters, and my criticism of them, require me to comment with made up screen names I don't even understand the meaning of.

Truth is, I think El Cazedor's primary motivation is entertainment. I don't really think he's a troll in the typical sense, but he does enjoy the banter. He seems to like to antagonize those of us that actually do legitimately visit the "mongering" venues of Monterrey, and report on them.

The character of El Cazedor's posts resembled those that seek to destroy the Monterrey section, and his posts suggested he may be a part of the group that enjoys the antagonistic value of prodding those of us that actually do post reports of our experiences. This dubious group enjoys antagonizing those of us that have informed opinions based on our legitimate experiences, not just speculation and conjecture based on the Drug Blogs, and teeny websites. The senior members have proven our legitimacy to countless mongers that have visited Monterrey over the last ten years. Some of these visitors to Monterrey know us personally, having met us directly, some on numerous occasions.

As I said, I do not categorize El Cazedor as one of these dubious posters, but I am uncomfortable with his inability to report any of his own experiences in the mongering venues of Monterrey. I have no doubt he lives in Monterrey. But, what good is that experience if you do not monger, and can't report on your experiences according to how living in Monterrey effects mongering, and more specifically, how the level of danger in Monterrey effects mongering?

As I said, El Cazedor seems to be a legitimate poster, and I accept him as such. I do not agree with him, but that's fine. But, when I read the postings from some of these dubious posters that sometimes pop up, I am often motivated to press them to get to the truth. That's why I challenged El Cazedor, initially believing he was from a faction that only strives to damage ISG, and to personally assault the senior members.

It's not unreasonable to ask new posters that contribute comments and posts that are suspect, to elaborate with more specifics in order to establish their credibility. That's all that's been going on here. Those that escalate our challenges to them by posting with personal attacks and rhetoric do not help their credibility with senior members that really do know the score in Monterrey. Here two weeks before you say I am a legitimate poster and now you say I should be banned? Then you first say I belong to the narco foros, then I am apache gaucho, and now I am part of some group of el cazadors? I do not need to get your credibility as I live here and report events as such and I do not want to make the fight with you no more. I now understand that this foro is a gran part of your life as you make up that you live here when you don't and you create other personalities and sometimes talk with them and yourself. I beleive that you are a lonely old man that maybe need some medication and I now feel bad for you. Anybody that have the gradution from the high school that read the foro know that you create the personalities. You are wey too obvious.

Please stop use the bad words to me and I will stop make you appear to be the fool.

[MonterreyDude]

ok, let's add.

january 26th: 700 guns confirep001ed in arizona coming out this way.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/26/grand-jury-indicts-alleged-gun-smuggle-ring/

febuary 17th: 300 guns confirep001ed, where else, in arizona again.

http://www.latimes.com/sns-rt-phoenix-gunringn17196231-20110217.0, 6506254. story.

and this figure, more than 1000 weapons, happens in the span of less than one month.

imagine in one whole year the tally.

and these are guns runners caught red handed. imagine those in other states that have not been caught.

[Bbond]

ok, let's add.

january 26th: 700 guns confirep001ed in arizona coming out this way.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/26/grand-jury-indicts-alleged-gun-smuggle-ring/

febuary 17th: 300 guns confirep001ed, where else, in arizona again.

http://www.latimes.com/sns-rt-phoenix-gunringn17196231-20110217

0, 6506254. story.

and this figure, more than 1000 weapons, happens in the span of less than one month.

imagine in one whole year the tally.

and these are guns runners caught red handed. imagine those in other states that have not been caught. add it up anyway you want, it's still a long way from 90% of 100, 000+.

[Whome69]

while many factors have contributed to the escalating violence, the beginning of the increasing violence can be traced back to the unraveling of a longtime arrangement between narcotics traffickers, the federal mexican government, and their state and local governmental agencies, which were controlled by the institutional revolutionary party (pri).

the pri lost its grip on political power starting in the late 1980s. but, during their reign they brokered agreements between the various cartels, which were much smaller in number, and therefore considerably more manageable. during this period, and to a certain extent, under vicente fox, things were really pretty calm in monterrey. i've often said you could walk the streets of el centro monterrey at 4am in the morning several years ago, prior to calderon, and be relatively safe, much more so than in any of the major downtown areas of any comparable us city.

prior to vicente fox, who mildly targeted the cartels as compared to calderon, the drug cartels and the mexican government were complicit with one another, and there was comparatively little violence as a result. by severing the government's complicit cooperation with the cartels, and actively pursuing them as criminals, the government escalated the violence between the cartels, which was bound to occur anyway to some extent, but perhaps not to the extent that has been experienced under calderon's aggressive pursuit of the cartels as criminal enterprises.

however, because of the increased number of cartels in the mix, and other political factors that now exist between the higher number of cartels, i'm not so sure that a deescalation of attempted control of the drug cartels would significantly reduce the violence. there are simply too many cartels now wanting a piece of the pie, and that kind of rivalry will increase the violence. so, while we might blame the mexican government's pursuit of drug cartels as criminal enterprises, the violence would have logically escalated as the numbers of additional cartels cropped up. the money is just too alluring, and the needs in mexico are just too great.

i believe the mexican government is growing increasingly concerned that the drug cartels directly threaten their own sovereignty. nobody likes to give up power, and the cartels are now arguably as powerful in mexico as the government itself. were the government to withdraw from the fight, they would likely be ensuring their own demise, becoming just puppets for the cartels, and the entire country of mexico would be just one big criminal enterprise, which some might argue is almost the case these days.

so, the argument that eliminating and regulating drugs may be the only solution. the government knows that were they to relinquish complete control of mexico to organized crime, many other criminal enterprises would flourish, and they would further damage mexican society as a whole. it isn't just about drugs for the government. allowing criminal enterprises to run whole countries can have nothing but a detrimental effect upon the lives of average, god fearing, good mexican citizens.

but, i can totally understand, and possibly agree with, why vicente fox has been calling for the legalization of drugs the last couple of years. it takes the profitability out of the scenario, and it removes the source of power for the cartels by cutting off the money that gives them the power to begin with.

if legalization is the ultimate solution to the violence, then a well regulated legalization of drugs, along with a huge, and i mean absolutely monumental, propaganda campaign to discourage it's use in mexico, and the us, might ultimately be the best solution. it would have to be a joint effort of strict regulation between the us and mexico, and there would have to be considerable effort made to discourage the use of drugs, perhaps tying penalties to the way drugs are used, rather than the mere possession and purchase.

for example, the penalties in the us have become much more strict for the use of alcohol. the penalties for the incorrect use of alcohol, ie: drinking and driving, drunk in public, etc. have become much more effective over the last twenty years. and, as a result of a relatively effective public service advertising campaign by groups like mad, there has become a much greater social stigma to drinking and driving.

that's the only way to responsibly legalize drugs, and reduce the overall damage drugs cause to society. drug use would have to be monitored, not permitted in public, or private parties, etc. drug use, through stigmatizing it's use with the young, would be the only responsible way to legalize and regulate it's purchase, and possession.

actual drug "use," as in where and how drugs can be legally used or possessed, would have to be heavily regulated. that would take the money out of the scenario, and it would considerably reduce the power of the mexican and us drug cartels. but, obtaining it would be legal, taking the money out of it, but at the same time criminalizing it's use under circumstances that would be detrimental to society as a whole, and to the fabric of american / mexican society and culture.

take firearms as an example. firearms are well regulated in the us, and their proper use is well regulated. but, they are legal to purchase and possess with the proper documentation and government approval, which took the money out of the whole scenario. were guns illegal in the us, they would be three to ten times their present cost, or more, just as they currently are in mexico now. but, the end result of legalization of the sale and possession of guns in the us has taken all the profit out of guns for the sellers. just ask any legitimate gun dealer in the us. now, of course, there is always a black market, and those sales will always yield higher profit margins. but, for the most part, legal guns in the us are cheap, and the only people actually making any money on guns are the gun runners making illegal sales, and smuggling guns to mexico, and other countries.

with respect to drugs, perhaps only permitting their use "alone," in private, with no other participants, no public possession permitted, etc. perhaps that would take the money out of procurement, decriminalizing it's use, but criminalizing the detrimental way in which drugs are possessed and used.

maybe with significant stigmatization of the use through advertising, propaganda, etc. it would not have the same appeal it currently has to so many millions of americans and mexicans. that would be the purest ultimate solution, so that demand is no longer what drives the industry. many people that become hooked on drugs do so on account of peer pressure, fitting-in, socialization, being accepted by peers, etc. and most that become part of the drug culture, do so at a young age.

the old farts don't give a shit whether they're popular or accepted, and they're smarter too, not wanting to add to what they know from experience is already a difficult life without adding other vices to drag one down. the stigmatizing of drug use would have to heavily target the young. obviously, there will always those people that will fall through the cracks, and ignore the warnings, even some old-farts. legalization might still be a problem for those who have a propensity for addictions of all kinds, but it would significantly reduce the overall violent affect of the drug industry as we know it today, both in the us and mexico, which many could argue is just as much a scourge on the culture and society of the us and mexico as the use of drugs.excellent analysis but lets face it. i would have agreed to this 10 years ago. in fact, i would still love to see it happen. legalization / decriminalization would have stopped the cartels cold but there are way too many people making money in the usa on the drug trade. not just the "bad boys" but the big corporations, lawyers, cops, jails, ect. fox had it right years ago, when he said that it was our demand for drugs that was screwing his country. but today, the cartels' actions and the resulting instability in mexico, decriminalizing or legalizing drugs, is now too late. the criminal elements are too powerful and too organized to go away. their secondary businesses; extortion, kidnapping and [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) would be expanded. then we have the problem of little "street criminals" being emboldened because the cops are ineffective. some are posing as narcos. the cartels have their own ways of dealing with impostors. i am sure you have heard the stories?

the cartels are already operating in this country and it is getting worse. decriminalizing / legalizing would weaken them but they will not go away. it is similar to our history with the mafia during prohibition. before prohibition, the mafia was nothing more than a gang in their own communities. but prohibition gave them the power and the money. after prohibition, they still flourished. it took our government years to weaken them.

mexico is in a similar situation but their "mafias" are in all out war with each other and there is much more money at stake. the zeta's? they are the worse!

lets be honest, df is not in control of the country. the drug lords control certain portions of the country and they operate with impunity in the rest. mexico is really out of control. the solution. is to call our army back from afghanistan where they battling war lords and send them to mexico to battle their war / drug lords. at least they would be closer to home and a significant portion of our army is bilingual. politically, the american population would support it and i think the mexican population would too.

the other side of the equation is the immigration problem to damage their [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) side of their trade. the solution is not the border security but in the "job control". people are coming her for j-o-b-s. at one time, immigration and the border patrol would conduct raids on a routine basis. now? they rarely do and if they do come to a business, they have a "hit list", they are looking for a particular person. to control the problem, every new hire has to be checked with a central data base. at first, it would be a headache, because many people are using duplicate social security numbers but eventually, the problem would be solved. enforce the laws on the books! conduct raids and fine employers.

but sadly, the bleeding hearts and the nasty republicans are on the same side for very different reasons. we know about the bleeding hearts but the republicans? they want cheap labor and they want to exploit the illegal alien so this solution will not be instituted. btw, we have other problems such as "anchor children" and non-producing illegals clogging our social systems and schools, but they have different solutions. i do believe we need a system of "legalizing" productive illegal aliens. i don't care if they are illegal as long as they are working. we just need to control the problem. now, we have no control.

once things return to normal in mexico, then we can enjoy our "passion" with safety and better choice of women! right?

[SmithandWesson]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I am the owner of a multi-million dollar company and have been reading the Monterrey section for years. I have always followed the advice here of Unspongebob, and have come to know that his credibility is well-documented, with many forum members knowing him both in person and through the Private Messaging System.

Truth is, people like El Cazedor, with his hysterical rants, are simply here to sabotage the Monterrey section as they provide not one single tidbit of mongering information, the purpose of the this forum.

Shills such as El Cazador, with a total of ten posts, should not be allowed to freely attack the credibility of Senior Members. Even though most members can discern the lack of credibility of El Cazador and the likes, it should not be tolerated by the forum as it violates the forum rules and it's decorum. Frankly, I could see myself not partaking in the patronage of the ISG if this behavior were allowed to continue, and I believe that many other members here would concur.

As I said, I do not think it's fair for Senior Members such as Unspongebob, who has over 1000 posts, to have to endure the insults of "shills," shills that have NO credibility, not ONE SINGLE post related to mongering, and that bring nothing of substance to the forum.

Hopefully, in the future, the moderator will come to his senses and understand the value, legitimacy and contributions that the Senior Members bring to the forum, because the "shills," shills such as El Cazador, bring nothing at all.

[Member #3453]

I was just going to ignore El Cazador. I mean, why waste your time??? Verdad? But, I appreciated your guys comments so much, that I just wanted to say Thank You.

I'm sure the El Cazador Groupo will believe me to be commenting with false screen names, Mr. S&W and Whome69. I suppose Bbond, Beavis, Monterreydude, Doubt98, Ssmc2, Larbo, La Parca, Angelmio, and on, and on, and on, are all fictitious screen names created by Unspongebob. Yeah, right?

There is a simple solution. Report his posts to the Administration. Maybe if they get enough complaining about his BS, Jackson will finally ban him. El Cazador will finally see that we are all independent thinkers, that we're not shills created as a mouthpiece.

Actually, the most recent post is once again, the original El Cazedor, seemingly. The other one was displaying a totally different competence level with respect to written English. So, welcome back El Cazador #1, and bienvenidos first-time El Cazador #2.

With respect to how we solve the HUGE Problems in Mexico, I wish I knew the best solution. Personally, I believe the solutions are beyond human comprehension, and will require divine intervention...Really!

[Beavis]

Somebody mention here before our casinos. There are maybe over 20 casinos but not all have the card games. I believe that none have the dice. Our casinos are normally safe but in the last month the armed thieves have rob two casinos. I avise you to be careful when you leave the casino and try to have your own personal cab that you have the confidence with.

Yesterday 7 armed thieves rob a restaurant of 100 clients and make some of the woman get naked and create the harm to others. This is a new tipo of crime here as the thieves know that the police is too busy for the fast response.

I do not recommend a solo gringo come here and get drunk in el centro and stay into the morning hours. These are some good stats. How many were Cornholed? That is the part that scares me.

[Bbond]

Personally, I believe the solutions are beyond human comprehension, and will require divine intervention...Really!Well with the cartel having enough finances to bribe officials at all levels, corrupt the entire police force of major cities, purchase weaponry that makes the military jealous, maybe divine intervention is the only answer.

But we know that isn't going to happen, never has, never will.

When the Mexican government finally admits they are beat, then other options must be explored.

Maybe the military chipping away will finally produce a favorable result, but then maybe not. Every time a king pin is taken down, someone less competent takes his place, more savage than the guy he replaced.

There are ways to beat this, but allowing corrupt police forces to continue isn't one of them.

[MonterreyDude]

"purchase weaponry that makes the military jealous"

There is one simple single little fact you seem not to know: narcs do not know how to use the weapons they buy. They do not know how to take care of them, nothing.

Military jealous?

Boy are you so wrong in this. So WRONG.

Now I really know you do not read a single tidbit of news coming out of Mexico, Bbond.

The narcs FLEE when ever they bump into the army, even with numeric supperiorty of 2 or 3-1 they FLEE.

And even with higher number of weapons, every singl narc that faces the army, they simply are killed.


Well with the cartel having enough finances to bribe officials at all levels, corrupt the entire police force of major cities, purchase weaponry that makes the military jealous, maybe divine intervention is the only answer.

But we know that isn't going to happen, never has, never will.

When the Mexican government finally admits they are beat, then other options must be explored.

Maybe the military chipping away will finally produce a favorable result, but then maybe not. Every time a king pin is taken down, someone less competent takes his place, more savage than the guy he replaced.

There are ways to beat this, but allowing corrupt police forces to continue isn't one of them.

[Bbond]

"purchase weaponry that makes the military jealous"

There is one simple single little fact you seem not to know: narcs do not know how to use the weapons they buy. They do not know how to take care of them, nothing.

The narcs FLEE when ever they bump into the army, even with numeric supperiorty of 2 or 3-1 they FLEE.
I probably read as much as you do, I read several online papers daily.

What I was referring to is the ability and resources are available. Read, again, the first seven words of the original post. That hardly implies their superiority in firefights.
Surely most lack expertise in the use and care of the weapons they have.
I understand the narcs flee, many are untrained, hired, expendable, street thugs, doped up, forced to do the dirty work. They seldom out number the military, and when they do, flee because they know more is on the way.
________________________________________________________________________________________
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2011/02/guns_used_in_me.php

In recent years the cartels, especially their enforcer groups such as Los Zetas, Gente Nueva and La Linea, have been increasingly using military weaponry instead of sporting arms. A close examination of the arms seized from the enforcer groups and their training camps clearly demonstrates this trend toward military ordnance, including many weapons not readily available in the United States. Some of these seizures have included M60 machine guns and hundreds of 40 mm grenades obtained from the military arsenals of countries like Guatemala.
But Guatemala is not the only source of such weapons. Latin America is awash in weapons that were shipped there over the past several decades to supply the various insurgencies and counterinsurgencies in the region.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/02/world/la-fg-mexico-gunbattles2-2010apr02

Traffickers previously have fought with army patrols, but the attempt to blockade garrisons came after weeks of an intense, bloody power struggle between two rival organizations, the Gulf cartel and its erstwhile paramilitary allies, the Zetas, to control the region bordering South Texas.
Part of the strategy of Tuesday's assaults may have been to prevent the army from patrolling, to give the drug gangs a freer hand in their fight against each other.
"This really speaks to the incredible organization and firepower that the drug-trafficking organizations have managed to muster," said Tony Payan, a border expert at the University of Texas at El Paso. "These are organizations that are flexible, supple and quick to react and adapt. They no doubt represent a challenge to the Mexican state."

[El Cazador]

@Beavis.

The only person dead is the owner who is killed two days after in Culiacáand. The news later report that the woman were violated sexually in other areas of the restaurant and the men were beat and robbed. Others here suggest that the violence here is not going to stop. Many here in monterrey believe the same. When you read or see people shot or killed in front of a store or house these people fail to pay the protection money to the narcos. Everybody that live here know somebody that was to be kidnapped, killed, beaten, or made to pay the money. This tipo of crime was not happening three year before.

[El Cazador]

Your post was dead-on. I will add just a few things to your list:

*Sit in the back seat of the cab at all times, unless you know the driver well. You will have better control of circumstances should you hail a taxi driver that has robbery, or worse, on his mind. From the back seat, if they take off in the wrong direction, and you begin to realize they're placing you in danger, you can choke them out if need be. This scenario is NOT common with taxis. 99% are safe. It has only happened to me once. But, once was too much for me, and I have adopted this practice, especially now since the petty criminals run around with less scrutiny from authorities because the authorities have bigger fish to fry these days.

*Moneda: Collect a bag of coins that you can use for exact change with taxis, or keep a supply of 20 peso bills handy. There are far too many taxis that do not carry sufficient change. Anything over 50 pesos is too large a bill for many of them to deal with.

*If you're planning to come back to Monterrey often, purchase a Mexico phone, and charge it with some saldo (minutes) , so you can send and receive text messages from the girls. That way, you control the information that passes between you and the girl, but you're true identity, and your legitimate phone numbers, are kept secret from the girls, totally separated from your real life.

*Assume an alias when you fraternize with the girls. Keep everything in your personal life separate from what you're doing in Monterrey. Everyone will think they know who they're dealing with, but they really haven't got a clue.

*At your first opportunity after arriving in Monterrey, make an effort to visit a money changer so you can have a selection of lower denomination bills. I recommend that you not have bills that are over the 200 peso denomination in your possession when visiting the bars, and that you preferably pay with bills using the lowest common denominator bills possible. I always make the effort to have a bunch of 20 peso bills (saving them for taxi fare) , and some 50 peso. 100 peso, and 200 peso bills are reserved for the bars, with the 100 peso bill seeming to be the safest denomination with respect to your not getting cheated by the waiters when they bring you your change.

*If you're a relative newbie in Monterrey, do not run a tab, unless you're with an experienced resident of Monterrey who is already well known to the management, and can discern the little attempts at larceny by the waiters. Always pay for the drinks as your order them.

*If you ignore the advice to pay as you go, and you do run a tab, make the waiter repeat back every single charge rather than just showing you a total. They love to come to your dark table, and using a flash light to illuminate a total amount, with no itemized charges being represented on the tab. Even my trustee waiters are famous for just showing total amounts, and spending very little time on the exact charges. About 60% of the time, on those rare occasions that I do run a tab, the bill is "mistakenly" inflated, and I would have paid too much.

* Preferably, exact change, la cuenta + propina, is the best policy when paying for drinks. But, if you can't pay with exact change, especially when you're alone, make a special effort to call attention to the denomination of the bill you're handing to the waiter. I recommend calling very specific attention to the denomination of the bill you're handing the waiter, and making them repeat it back to you before they go off for change. They love to pull the old switcharoo. 200 peso bill becomes a 20 peso bill in the blink of an eye. A taxista job is a job that is good and people do not take for granted. These people work many hours a week and can make $800-$1000 pesos after expenses in a 12 hour period. Never in the news or with friends here do you read or hear of taxistas try to rob the clients and there is a reazon for this. A reazon people that live here or spend much time here know of.

A taxista job is like the beéisbol game. Three strikes and you out. If a taxista recieve the complaint from the client he is give first the warning. The second complaint and the taxista lost the license for three months and have a $2500 pesos fine. Three complaints from the clients and the taxista lose the license for permanent and the company is made to pay the government $20000 pesos penalty to get the car back. Generally after one complaint the taxista have the hard time to find the company that give him the opportunity to drive the taxi because he is believe to be a puñeta and a antagonista. Every warning that a taxista recieve from the client is put into the permanent computer system for all to see. You can make the complaint at many locations in the city and any taxista will tell you where. I believe that some taxista may try to drive you around to make the rate higher but you can simply get out and find one more and not have to make the violence and be a antagonista.

Now if you behave like a gringo pendejo and attempt a Bruce Lee kungfu choke out move you will end up in jail or maybe something worse. Taxistas have the together friendship and if a taxista see another taxista in a Bruce Lee kungfu choke, he going to stop and help the other taxista. You have a good chance to recieve much pain and that maybe end in the hospital.

I suppose the moral of the story is that if you take the avice of a puñeta you may end up to be a pendejo.

[El Cazador]

i am mexicano, but i live in us. i have familia living in monterrey. i visit bars in monterrey since i was young like you say 20-30 but, now i have 64 years, but i see novia that have only 27 years para mucho tiempo- i see her over seis anos. you offend all of us that not hve under 30 years old, and you say we not able to see young woman? yu loco mi amigo. you offend all us that see their young girlfriends and visit bars by saying that we are too old. but we are not finis like you say. young men are too ingenuo, and think men that have more than 30 years are wash up. some think because they are yong, they understand woman, and are better than old man with woman. talk to me when you have 65 anos, and we see what you think.

i read what unspongebob say, why el es correcto girls in bars call all us mamon, stupido, bobo and many things worse. he mean they call all hombres en los bars these names, and he understand that many are bad girl. he say this caus some girls are ladrones, and he konw it. but he also no some girsl are good girls- and they give good servicios. he no some girls are verdad.

he no that some girl like man older than young man because 2 things, they want dinero an they like experiencia. we all know this about bars and you must not visit bars if you not no this. hay milliones chavos viejos con exito en los bars con chavas muy joven.

if you want visit colinas, and you no want salidas fine. spongebob want salida, and he konw want go in club and spend money on chavas en el bar. he want girl on salida en lugar.

i think bars en elcentro safe too. es peligroso en la calle in monterrey en la noche. ****, i go monterrey every weekend. things are more peligroso en mexico than hace 3 anos **** bars safe. why yu not say la verdad? maybe cause yu not visit los bars en elcentro. [/quote]no mexicano that speak the spanish would ever call the woman ladrones. they are ladronas. only a gringo would say ladrones.

there are many other examples same as this when you make the mistake and i do not want to make the fight and want to respect the moderator and the foro.

[El Cazador]

Actually, you have it the other way around.

Monterreydude is my pet dog..)

Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof Woff, Here boy, here boy, here boy, here Chester, here Chester, here Chester.

I think I'll turn into a troll too. Bring it on baby! . @unspongebob.

You are a antagonista, here you intimidate forum member Chester Boy and treat him like a dog.

[El Cazador]

i am mexicano, but i live in us. i have familia living in monterrey. i visit bars in monterrey since i was young like you say 20-30 but, now i have 64 years, but i see novia that have only 27 years para mucho tiempo- i see her over seis anos. you offend all of us that not hve under 30 years old, and you say we not able to see young woman? yu loco mi amigo. you offend all us that see their young girlfriends and visit bars by saying that we are too old. but we are not finis like you say. young men are too ingenuo, and think men that have more than 30 years are wash up. some think because they are yong, they understand woman, and are better than old man with woman. talk to me when you have 65 anos, and we see what you think.

i read what unspongebob say, why el es correcto girls in bars call all us mamon, stupido, bobo and many things worse. he mean they call all hombres en los bars these names, and he understand that many are bad girl. he say this caus some girls are ladrones, and he konw it. but he also no some girsl are good girls- and they give good servicios. he no some girls are verdad.

he no that some girl like man older than young man because 2 things, they want dinero an they like experiencia. we all know this about bars and you must not visit bars if you not no this. hay milliones chavos viejos con exito en los bars con chavas muy joven.

if you want visit colinas, and you no want salidas fine. spongebob want salida, and he konw want go in club and spend money on chavas en el bar. he want girl on salida en lugar.

i think bars en elcentro safe too. es peligroso en la calle in monterrey en la noche. ****, i go monterrey every weekend. things are more peligroso en mexico than hace 3 anos **** bars safe. why yu not say la verdad? maybe cause yu not visit los bars en elcentro. [/quote]@unspongbob.

you are mangas colaradas, no mexicano would call the woman ladrones they are ladronas. only the grinog would make this mistake.

[MonterreyDude]

Why is it Bbond that you can't accept the universal fact that people, evil people, not the good American citizens, are selling guns to narcs in Mexico?

Every single country in the world knows that the biggest gun runners in the world are the US, Russia and China (illegal gun running, not LEGAL as in "I will go to Walmart to buy an assault weapon").

Why is it you just can't accept the fact?


I probably read as much as you do, I read several online papers daily.

What I was referring to is the ability and resources are available. Read, again, the first seven words of the original post. That hardly implies their superiority in firefights.

Surely most lack expertise in the use and care of the weapons they have.

I understand the narcs flee, many are untrained, hired, expendable, street thugs, doped up, forced to do the dirty work. They seldom out number the military, and when they do, flee because they know more is on the way.

________________________________________________________________________________________.

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2011/02/guns_used_in_me.php

In recent years the cartels, especially their enforcer groups such as Los Zetas, Gente Nueva and La Linea, have been increasingly using military weaponry instead of sporting arms. A close examination of the arms seized from the enforcer groups and their training camps clearly demonstrates this trend toward military ordnance, including many weapons not readily available in the United States. Some of these seizures have included M60 machine guns and hundreds of 40 mm grenades obtained from the military arsenals of countries like Guatemala.

But Guatemala is not the only source of such weapons. Latin America is awash in weapons that were shipped there over the past several decades to supply the various insurgencies and counterinsurgencies in the region.

_________________________________________________________________________________________.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/02/world/la-fg-mexico-gunbattles2-2010apr02

Traffickers previously have fought with army patrols, but the attempt to blockade garrisons came after weeks of an intense, bloody power struggle between two rival organizations, the Gulf cartel and its erstwhile paramilitary allies, the Zetas, to control the region bordering South Texas.

Part of the strategy of Tuesday's assaults may have been to prevent the army from patrolling, to give the drug gangs a freer hand in their fight against each other.

"This really speaks to the incredible organization and firepower that the drug-trafficking organizations have managed to muster," said Tony Payan, a border expert at the University of Texas at El Paso."These are organizations that are flexible, supple and quick to react and adapt. They no doubt represent a challenge to the Mexican state."

[El Cazador]

Several weeks ago, I flagged down a taxi on Madero, and after he dropped my girl off back at her bar, I asked him to take me to El Infinito. He began driving in the opposite direction, West on Madero instead of back East again toward El Infinito.

I don't know what he had in mind. Maybe nothing more than just to run up the bill, but possibly something much worse. Maybe he was going to rob me, who knows. We were on one of the side streets that runs parallel to Madero, dark, lonely, no traffic, no people, and headed further into the darkness.

Except, fortunately for me, there was a guy crossing the street and the taxi had to stop in order to avoid hitting him. I unlocked the door, jumped out, and the guy started in on me, telling me that I owed him 30 pesos. I threw the 30 pesos at him, and started walking, asking him in Spanish just were the hell he thought he was taking me.

My advice, always sit behind the driver, not in the front seat next to him. Always think to keep the upper hand in all that you do, no matter whether you're dealing with taxis or girls. With girls, it depends on whether they've attained trustee status. But, everything else, stay sharp!

With the taxis, sit behind the driver so all you have to do if you get in a jam is choke the asshole out. Don't let them have the upper hand or you might actually end up on the outskirts of Monterrey as one of the statistics.

The street crime is up in Monterrey. There's a lot said about the cartels. But, while everybody is focusing on the cartels, and the high visibility of that potential danger, it's very easy to sometimes drop your guard with respect to what I believe is the actual escalated danger to us as we monger, the street crime, and crimes of opportunity. @unspongebob.

You and la parca have the same avise to choke out our taxistas and also use the word trustee status in your reports.

[El Cazador]

I believe El Cazador is promoting an agenda that is not consistant with the needs and desires of the members for which this site was established. He will not listen to reason, and continues to return to his initial position of how "horrible" the conditions in Monterrey are.

Your post regarding the Monterrey crime issue, El Cazador's continuing rants, and his complete refusal to listen to what we know to be fact, was well written. I suggest you shorten it slightly, and add a short sentence or two at the beginning explaining that this is to be the standard response to all of the El Cazador rants. Then we can all use it regardless of what issue he raises. We simply paste it as a response for the edification of newbies or infrequent readers. @unspongebob.

This is you, no?

[El Cazador]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I am the owner of a multi-million dollar company and have been reading the Monterrey section for years. I have always followed the advice here of Unspongebob, and have come to know that his credibility is well-documented, with many forum members knowing him both in person and through the Private Messaging System.

Truth is, people like El Cazedor, with his hysterical rants, are simply here to sabotage the Monterrey section as they provide not one single tidbit of mongering information, the purpose of the this forum.

Shills such as El Cazador, with a total of ten posts, should not be allowed to freely attack the credibility of Senior Members. Even though most members can discern the lack of credibility of El Cazador and the likes, it should not be tolerated by the forum as it violates the forum rules and it's decorum. Frankly, I could see myself not partaking in the patronage of the ISG if this behavior were allowed to continue, and I believe that many other members here would concur.

As I said, I do not think it's fair for Senior Members such as Unspongebob, who has over 1000 posts, to have to endure the insults of "shills," shills that have NO credibility, not ONE SINGLE post related to mongering, and that bring nothing of substance to the forum.

Hopefully, in the future, the moderator will come to his senses and understand the value, legitimacy and contributions that the Senior Members bring to the forum, because the "shills," shills such as El Cazador, bring nothing at all. @unspongebob.

This is you again no? I come here to bring the reports to this foro and only recieve the attacks by you and all you various personalities. I do not want continue as you enjoy to make the fight with me and others and this is not my personality to make the fight. You like the fight too much that even you challenge the fight with the moderator. You are a true antagonista. You and you various personalities can make the fight with someone else.

[Bbond]

Why is it Bbond that you can't accept the universal fact that people, evil people, not the good American citizens, are selling guns to narcs in Mexico?

Every single country in the world knows that the biggest gun runners in the world are the US, Russia and China (illegal gun running, not LEGAL as in "I will go to Walmart to buy an assault weapon").

Why is it you just can't accept the fact? When / Where did I ever dispute that?

I dispute that 90% of guns come from the US, as documented by Stratfor, et al.

The president of Mexico has called on the US to control drug use, good luck on that.

He also called for stopping the flow of arms from the US, damn, man wants it both ways.

It's all something he wants someone else to blame and have them try to control.

It's also a know fact the Mexican government, at ALL LEVELS, is corrupt, see him doing much about that?

[MonterreyDude]

O come on. An agent is shot in Mexico, so NOW they arrest hundreds of suspects in the US. NOW?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/us/25drugs.html?_r=1&ref=us

Am not dumb to realize the US is as corrupt as Mexico.

As a matter of fact every single one in the world knows this fact except Americans by themselves....

PS: by the way guys... did you fellas know that the Republicans are slashing funds for border security in their bid to reduce the US deficit???

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-republicans-trim-border-security-budget-calls-resources/story?id=12965031

Yes indeed.... first to say "secure the borders", first to contradict themselves.

[Member #3453]

i see the solution as having 3 main parts.

1. substantially beef up the law enforcement budget. raise the pay rates of all police officers, from local transitos on up. modernize training and policing methods.

2. modernize the judicial system. hell, simply carbon copying the american system would be just fine.

3. decriminalize drugs. it must be done. decriminalize it, tax it, control it, and put any tax revenue into programs that educate and rehabilitate drug users and / or potential drug users.

of course the usa would have to lend a gigantic helping hand in implementing all of this. our american appetite for drugs is [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) and pillaging the country of mexico. i feel it's the usa obligation to step up and significantly increase it's assistance in fighting against the cartels. good solutions all.

and, if that doesn't work, simply fly just one f35 into mexico, strafe the hell out of all known drug cartel haciendas, they know exactly where they all are, and be done with the bs.

[Member #3453]

@unspongebob.

You and la parca have the same avise to choke out our taxistas and also use the word trustee status in your reports.I used trustee and the choke out terms based on what USB previously wrote. I agree with USB about the dangers in Mexico, that's all. Peace.

[Member #3453]

No mexicano would call the woman ladrones they are ladronas. Only the grinog would make this mistake.Not trying to get in the middle of your little dispute, but you would not believe the text messages I get from girlfriends in Mexico. Everything is mis-spelled, no grammar. The Spanish grammar, and especially the spelling used by the majority of average working class Mexicanos is terrible. It would seem to me that if there was a mistake in the spelling of this guy's post, and he was truly a Mexicano commenting with broken english, etc. There is a much greater likelihood that he's Mexicano. My girlfriends are Mexicanas, but they still don't know how to spell. If they sent me a grammatically correct text with proper Spanish grammar I would have a heart attack. But, if he only made one spelling mistake, and he's trying to pass himself off as a Mexicano, and isn't one, that should be a huge tip-off right there that he might be a Gringo. Just my two cents.

[Bbond]

Am not dumb to realize the US is as corrupt as Mexico.

As a matter of fact every single one in the world knows this fact except Americans by themselves. Corrupt as Mexico? Come on man, surely you jest.

Fucked up/corrupt, whatever, but no where near as bad as Mexico is.

[Member #3453]

O come on. An agent is shot in Mexico, so NOW they arrest hundreds of suspects in the US. NOW?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/us/25drugs.html?_r=1&ref=us

Am not dumb to realize the US is as corrupt as Mexico.

As a matter of fact every single one in the world knows this fact except Americans by themselves.

PS: by the way guys. Did you fellas know that the Republicans are slashing funds for border security in their bid to reduce the US deficit?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-republicans-trim-border-security-budget-calls-resources/story?id=12965031

Yes indeed. First to say "secure the borders", first to contradict themselves.

And, how many of the suspects arrested in the US are illegals, or in direct collusion with Mexican drug cartels?

The US may not be perfect, but corruption in the US compared to Mexico is dwarfed in comparison. In the US, predators suffer the direct and often deadly consequences of their actions at the hands of their intended victims, and in addition, the government is swift and competent at administering justice compared to Mexico.

There simply is no justice here in Mexico, and no means by which retribution is achieved against the criminals, predators, and/or corrupt officials by the citizens themselves. The average Mexicano has been virtually rendered powerless due to the graft and corruption of the government in Mexico. The willingness of the Mexican people to accept their subservience in exchange for promises of the bones and scraps thrown their way by the government is pretty obvious.

Mexicanos seem content to accept their subservience rather than taking back power from both the government shills, the criminals, and the predators. But, what can they do? Any means by which to overthrow the corrupt, and fight the predators and criminals, has been totally and completely removed so that the whole of Mexican society remains subservient to the conditions that only serve to embolden the worst in society even more.

There just seems to be a lack of desire from the people to put a stop it. Or, maybe the people don't possess the political power, freedom, and/or personal liberty to stop it...The politics in Mexico seems to lack any grass roots effort from the people to eliminate the graft and corruption through political activism, nor are the people directly equipped to take back the power, or meet the criminals with their own show of force. I believe the predators, criminals, and corrupt officials are in power to achieve their own ends, and they've shaped Mexican society to make it easiest for them to exist, and for the good law abiding citizens of Mexico to be totally and completely compliant, almost to the point of their being complicit.

And to heap more on the problem, conditions have been created in Mexico so that the average Mexicano believes that if you can't beat them, join them, right? A terrible and vicious circle just perpetuates itself.

[MonterreyDude]

Yes, corrupt as Mexico.

You guys do not know how we laugh when we hear about Sarah Palin, McCain, (on the Right) or John Edwards or the Clintons (on the Left) and the way you are delivered right into the pockets of your politicians.

You are being toyed with the idea you are not corrupt, but corruption in the US has been institutionalized. Read as LEGAL.

I can point out some examples, but they are way over your head.

Like Monsanto Co. Controling ALL soy seed planting in the US and endoresed by laws that protect their criminal way of work.

The Republican party shouting that they want a sealed border but they are the first to slash the Homeland Security budget that will reduce the number of agents watching the border.

And so on.

Your system is corrupt and decadent. You just refuse to accept the fact.

By the way, you guys are up to 700 arrests AFTER one agent was killed in Mexico.
Weird...
SO, if this guy hadn't died... business would have been as usual???

Come on Bbond and USB... we are not blind, you guys are the ones the ones wearing blindfolds.

How can the USA buy the fact that ONLY after one agent was killed, your goverment SUDDENLY did these 700 arrests????

We know that that's the way of a corrupt goverment... status quo.

I still prefer our way; let the army kill them.
No jail time for them.

Am sure El Cazador can give us a hard fact of how many sicarios (narcs) have been killed in Mexico by the armed forces against this puny number of arrests in America.
(700 arrests add in numbers up to 14 arrests per state within the continental borders of the US... a ridicululous figure).



Corrupt as Mexico? Come on man, surely you jest.

Fucked up / corrupt, whatever, but no where near as bad as Mexico is.

[Beavis]

Just as corrupt yes you have a solid point but the corruption is still a lot more affordable in Mexico. Corruption was spelled out clearly in the 2008 election. The Iraq war is much of the cause for the state of the country here and the American people answer by electing a president whose middle name is "Hussein."


Yes, corrupt as Mexico.

You guys do not know how we laugh when we hear about Sarah Palin, McCain, (on the Right) or John Edwards or the Clintons (on the Left) and the way you are delivered right into the pockets of your politicians.

You are being toyed with the idea you are not corrupt, but corruption in the US has been institutionalized. Read as LEGAL.

I can point out some examples, but they are way over your head.

Like Monsanto Co. Controling ALL soy seed planting in the US and endoresed by laws that protect their criminal way of work.

The Republican party shouting that they want a sealed border but they are the first to slash the Homeland Security budget that will reduce the number of agents watching the border.

And so on.

Your system is corrupt and decadent. You just refuse to accept the fact.

By the way, you guys are up to 700 arrests AFTER one agent was killed in Mexico.

Weird.

SO, if this guy hadn't died. Business would have been as usual?

Come on Bbond and USB. We are not blind, you guys are the ones the ones wearing blindfolds.

How can the USA buy the fact that ONLY after one agent was killed, your goverment SUDDENLY did these 700 arrests?

We know that that's the way of a corrupt goverment. Status quo.

I still prefer our way; let the army kill them.

No jail time for them.

Am sure El Cazador can give us a hard fact of how many sicarios (narcs) have been killed in Mexico by the armed forces against this puny number of arrests in America.

(700 arrests add in numbers up to 14 arrests per state within the continental borders of the US. A ridicululous figure).

[Cdiazgto]

Why so much hatred and disrespect for the USA?

How does a Mexican become such an expert in all things American?

I am a proud citizen of Mexico. Spent 35 years living in Pennsylvania. Educated at Widener University. PhD in Forensic Psychology. Well read. I feel as I have missed something. I guess I would have learned more in an American school in Mexico.

I do not find this hatred here in Guanajuato nor anywhere else in Mexico. Must be a Monterrey thing.

Can it really be that all Americans are so ignorant and just don't understand?

To all Americans, this is not typical thinking here in Mexico.

Monterreydude is a payaso and embarassment to all of Mexico.

Sorry for such a negative first post.

[Cdiazgto]

Am not dumb to realize the US is as corrupt as Mexico.

As a matter of fact every single one in the world knows this fact except Americans by themselves.Mexican to Mexican, you are one ignorant payaso.

[Cdiazgto]

. By the way, you guys are up to 700 arrests AFTER one agent was killed in Mexico.

Weird.

(700 arrests add in numbers up to 14 arrests per state within the continental borders of the US. A ridicululous figure)700 is a pretty impressive number to me. It did not come by blind luck the way our government works. It was done with investigation and hard work.

Many orginizations were involved in the US arrests and not one ambush. How often do you see that here in Mexico?

Our government is so corrupt that there is not even a believable number of how many arrests have been made. And in how many years. More importantly how many of those arrested are still in custody or have been prosecuted.

Our government wants to say that US agents and intellegence do not share information with Mexico. What can we expect when the corruption is present at all levels of life in Mexico. There is no one here to entrust with vital information.

Mexican intellegence (oxymoron) has no clue as to how to investigate. They are just another hinderance our problems.

[Bbond]

Mexican to Mexican, you are one ignorant payaso.Calling a spade a spade, THANK YOU.

[Bbond]

To all Americans, this is not typical thinking here in Mexico.

Monterreydude is a payaso and embarassment to all of Mexico.

Sorry for such a negative first post. Don't need to apologize, please feel free to step up and counter those opinions that you see wrong.

[Bbond]

Mexican intellegence (oxymoron)Good, very good.

[Member #3453]

There is little or no justice in Mexico, only victimization at almost all levels. There is a total lack of confidence among the people in Mexico that they will receive justice. That's why the attitude from Mexicanos is "every man for himself," and why there is very little altruistic inspiration for change. This is why the average/lower class Mexican is more likely to participate in illicit activities themselves.

The odds of being ground up and spit out by the huge corrupt machine are so huge, that the average/lower class Mexicano takes refuge within those "groups" that offer them the most protection and security (ie; the Cartels and Criminal Syndicates). God knows, they receive nothing from their government with respect to security, protection, or justice, and they do not have the financial or educational means by which to "grease" the machine.

The affluent class has the financial and educational capability to "grease" the machine, and to avoid many of the detrimental effects of the machine. The average/lower class Mexican is simply trying to survive what is a very intimidating existence. This survival instinct has created a vast army of lemmings to do the bidding of the crime syndicates. These lemmings are just average folk often just trying desperately to survive in an unjust and corrupt society.

Many of them end up in mass graves on the outskirts of Monterrey as they miscalculate their own dealings within what is to them a more secure existence than being independent of their criminal affiliations. They do not have the means to financially or educationally survive being ground up by the machine...So, "IF YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM, JOIN THEM" prevails. Many average/low class Mexicanos choose to "Join Them," believing they will be better off in life as a result, but end up dead after making their own political miscalculations.

This is simply not the situation in the US. There is at least a reasonable expectation felt by most Americans that they will receive a reasonably high level of justice, security, and protection in life from their government and institutions, not necessarily from the highest levels at times due to our own levels of corruption in the US, but at least from the lowest levels of government, where the influence of the average American is most effectively felt, on the local level, where the corruption is much less tolerated, and at the level where everyday life is lived.

This is why I say that as a traveler and/or occasional visitor to Monterrey, you risk the dangers much less than the average Mexicano living within Mexican society, and having to deal with the "machine." The average monger can come to Mexico, remain relatively low key, and escape much of the risk that literally plagues the average Mexicano on a daily basis. I'm convinced this is why we are often hearing the warnings from the Mexicanos that we should stay away from Mexico. They are living right next to the machine. What they don't realize is that we are somewhat insulated from our exposure to the machine, and run lesser risks, risks that have them almost hysterical with the "Chicken Little" routine, and understandably so.

The average occasional visitor may fall victim to crime, but they are not nearly as at risk with respect to the "machine" as the average/lower class Mexicano, who is immersed in Mexican culture, and subject to the effects of having a much greater level of exposure to the "machine" itself, and virtually no way of financially or educationally escaping it's detrimental effects.

An American, living in Mexico, or spending a lot of time here, typically does have the financial means to deal with the machine effectively, but must be more in-tune with the risks associated with the machine, and take greater precautions than the average occasional visitor that has little or no connection to living in Mexican society on a daily basis year after year. Just spending a few days in Mexico, and being careful with respect to being a victim of crime, yields relatively lower level of risks than most Mexicanos experience.

That's also why I frequently say that the dangers with respect to crime are just as high in the US, and why I say that most occasional visitors to Monterrey run very little additional risk with respect to a short visit here. The average ocassional visitor isn't in Mexico long enough to be exposed to the true danger, which is the "machine," and it's residue, the Cartels.

[Cdiazgto]

USB +1 A man that truly understands what our daily life in Mexico has become. And he found no need to blame anything on the USA.

[Member #3453]

They are living right next to the machine.They are not only living next to the machine, they're being eaten by it, and quickly devoured, thereby nourishing it to be even more destructive. Focusing on external sources is nothing more than a distraction that acts as an appetizer. Kill the beast from within before it consumes everything.

[MonterreyDude]

This forum is begining to STINK.

Iam being insulted... thank you Moderators.

I have an impecable track record helping mongers in Monterrey in NINE YEARS and Iam being insulted.

This is the first time that this Forum, the ISG has truely dissapointed me.

FYI, I have helped a monger from this forum that has been in Monterrey for the past 40 days working in Monterrey and he has just returned to his home after meeting USB and other mongers from other forums... and still holding my reputation as a good resident monger....

.... and am being insulted???




Mexican to Mexican, you are one ignorant payaso.

[Bbond]

If Iam posting / answering Bbond it is because I know him in person, as I know many other mongers.

We might sound as uncivil, and agresive, but I know him eye to eye.

And he may call me what ever he wants. I may agree with something someone says, but I won't resort to name calling.

I am not an expert on anything political, anywhere. But I have eyes and ears.

I have a high level law enforcement individual in my family, I see hear and read things I am not supposed to know. Perhaps that influences my opinions at times.

[MonterreyDude]

Bbond, I have recanted the post you quote.

But I still hold what you posted. Our level of discussion is that: a CIVILIZED DISCUSSION.

You know me in person, and you know truely well that Iam not the type that would insult a single monger of all the gang we both know. Even in the worst of comments.


I may agree with something someone says, but I won't resort to name calling.

I am not an expert on anything political, anywhere. But I have eyes and ears.

I have a high level law enforcement individual in my family, I see hear and read things I am not supposed to know. Perhaps that influences my opinions at times.

[Bbond]

I have an impecable track record helping mongers in Monterrey and Iam being insulted.

This is the first time that this Forum, the ISG has truely dissapointed me. MD, please, these discussions, whether we agree or not has nothing to do with your knowledge and assistance that you have provided me, and many others, who visit Monterrey.

Arguing political issues, and that's really where we may disagree, can make enemies from friends. Sometimes it may get personal, but that's just the way those issues evolve.

Personalities and opinions aside, no-one can take anything away from MD about his willingness to assist those who chose to visit, and monger in, Monterrey.

[Member #3453]

This forum is begining to STINK.

Iam being insulted. Thank you Moderators.

I have an impecable track record helping mongers in Monterrey in NINE YEARS and Iam being insulted.

This is the first time that this Forum, the ISG has truely dissapointed me.

FYI, I have helped a monger from this forum that has been in Monterrey for the past 40 days working in Monterrey and he has just returned to his home after meeting USB and other mongers from other forums. And still holding my reputation as a good resident monger.

And am being insulted?

Well, join the club. How many times have I been called terrible names within the forum, and it has been totally ignored, and allowed to stand by the moderators.

I stand by my criticism of the moderators. I take nothing back about what I previously said of them. Their lack of attention to this problem is reprehensible.

Monterreydude does have an impeccable record within this forum. He doesn't deserve to be ridiculed by name calling just because we disagree with his opinions, political or not. Frankly, the name calling only serves to discredit the validity of some political opinions I happen to agree with. Name calling only sabotages the credibility of the arguments.

It is very uncomfortable for those of us that may have agreement with certain opposing political and/or mongering points of view to support the poster whose points of view we agree with, while at the same time enduring the name calling upon someone whose high character, dependability, and caring disposition we have personally seen exhibited over the course of many years.

Monterreydude's contributions to the forum, and the help he has given demonstrates his true stellar character, character that can not be interpreted within these forums by those that somehow feel they can judge a man based on what they read and interpret on this forum.

It has been quite apparent for a long time that the moderators have totally abandoned this forum. Why is there so much animosity here, and from people that DO NOT know us personally, and have never met us?

I'll tell you why. Those of us that have actually contributed things of substance for many years to this forum, and care about the validity of it's content, are relegated to doing the damn job of the moderators within the forum.

For that, we are targeted by those whose only purpose is to sabotage the forum, and/or gain retribution upon cyber personalities they've decided to dislike, void of any direct knowledge of us as individuals.

Because of the moderator's negligence, and because we care about the validity of what is posted here and choose to refute those posts that do not ring true, we expose ourselves to retribution from the disingenuous types that intend only to use the forum as a means of retribution against those of us they seemingly "hate," but DO NOT EVEN KNOW!

[Cdiazgto]

I have an impecable track record helping mongers in Monterrey in NINE YEARS.No one denies your impeccable record of informing and helping mongers with issues pertaining to Monterrey, and I salute you.

What I find appalling as a Mexican, is your constant and insistent belittlement and beratement of the USA and it's citizens.

I apologise at this time for calling you an Idiot and Payaso. Maybe I should replace those words with misinformed. I find it humerous that you feel slighted and must protest. I don't see the Americans acting in the manner that you do when you treat them with disrespect.

I might suggest that you do a little studying and investigating to see just where we (Mexico) would be at this time without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money. All because of our own government's incompetence and corruption.

I feel very fortunate to be employeed by both the Mexican and US Federal Governments and have insights into matters that very few have. The two are as different as day and night. I admit that without my US education and help from &8203; innumerable Americans, I would not have the lifestyle that my family and I so enjoy.

I will continue to read and enjoy your posts pertaining to mongering but pray that the hatred for the USA might ebb just a little.

[Member #3453]

No one denies your impeccable record of informing and helping mongers with issues pertaining to Monterrey, and I salute you.

What I find appalling as a Mexican, is your constant and insistent belittlement and beratement of the USA and it's citizens.

I apologise at this time for calling you an Idiot and Payaso. Maybe I should replace those words with misinformed. I find it humerous that you feel slighted and must protest. I don't see the Americans acting in the manner that you do when you treat them with disrespect.

I might suggest that you do a little studying and investigating to see just where we (Mexico) would be at this time without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money. All because of our own government's incompetence and corruption.

I feel very fortunate to be employeed by both the Mexican and US Federal Governments and have insights into matters that very few have. The two are as different as day and night. I admit that without my US education and help from &8203; innumerable Americans, I would not have the lifestyle that my family and I so enjoy.

I will continue to read and enjoy your posts pertaining to mongering but pray that the hatred for the USA might ebb just a little.

I regularly have disagreements with Monterreydude on all kinds of issues. I work tirelessly to convince him that he is misguided with respect to his politics, and he upon me just as passionately concerning my politics. But, we just agree to disagree because we know each other well enough on a personal level to conclude that the totality of admirable qualities between us supersedes any petty disagreements we might have over our friendly, but passionately articulated, disagreements.

Where the forum does us all such a huge dis-service is by our evaluating each other based solely upon our written words. We have no other criteria by which we can form conclusions, and we are all sometimes guilty of reaching conclusions about others, through their cyber personalities only, conclusions we would never reach were we to know one another personally, their truest selves.

[MonterreyDude]

I will not answer one single post of yours after this:

I am not misinformed.

You are not a Mexican. Your way of writing gives you away (tip, we Mexicans do not say "without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money", we never express ourselves of Americans that way. We Mexicans, living in Monterrey do not bend over backwards to "American Taxpayers", it's the other way around, as if you wouldn't know).

You are a racist. We Mexicans are classists.

So easy to detect your meaning reading between your lines.

Only an American would say this: "I might suggest that you do a little studying and investigating to see just where we (Mexico) would be at this time without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money. All because of our own government's incompetence and corruption."

(If you were a Mexican you would say that Mexico is alive thanks to the scarifice of millions of Mexican taxpayers)

If you were a Mexican, which you are not, EVERY SINGLE LIVING MEXICAN says that guns come from the US.

Only Americans say the opposite.

By the way, the gun that killed the Mexican agent in San Luis Potosi has been traced to Texas.

God, this is so stupid to read from a "Mexican": "I might suggest that you do a little studying and investigating to see just where we (Mexico) would be at this time without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money. All because of our own government's incompetence and corruption."
(Only and American would be so falsely proud to rub my nose in taxpayers help money, just to remind me)
(How about the millions of dollars the drug users in the US invest in drugs, that have us in the position we are now in?)

(Please, convince me of the opposite, I want to read from you, if you are a Mexican, that drug trade that ends in the US has Mexico in a state of war).

"No one denies your impeccable record of informing and helping mongers with issues pertaining to Monterrey, and I salute you."

(Six posts and you know me by heart... yes I have an excelent track record).

"pray that the hatred for the USA might ebb just a little."
(You are truely not a Mexican. Total give away. How about the total hatered for Mexicans in the US??? There are some that want the US to invade Mexico, and that includes Republicans and the common citizen... yes, Iam informed.
I read almost on a daily basis, the NY Times, the LA Times, The Washington Post, Fox News, ABC, CBS, 60 Minutes, The Chicago Tribune, The Huffington Post, Politico, El Norte, El Universal, Milenio and yes obviously, Televisa).

Another give away...
And Iam not a Deepak Chopra follower... I do not believe in coincidences.
If you are not a Monger in Monterrey, but yes, a Mexican... WHY are you reading the ISG????
Why, tell us, please pretty please tells us, why it turns out that you are here in this precise moment of the existence of this forum???
Why just up to now, you decide to intervene???
If you are a Mexican you would be reading the Mexican forums, groups, blogs.... why stick to a forum that is limited in all aspects????
Not minimizing the value of the ISG, but it is nothing compared to the Mexican forums where prostitution can openly be mentioned, talked about and singled out.

Cause truth be said, I might quarrel with my fellow mongers, but their aim is to monger, to find girls, hookers, SC girls.
And they have a track record of posts that say that and can be found here and in other forums.
This discussion is just a side conversation during coffee break.
Non trascendental, contrary to your posts.

Cause we have met in other forums and you hate me like hell.... right???

Oh and yes, and I honestly mean it....
Apologies accepted.




No one denies your impeccable record of informing and helping mongers with issues pertaining to Monterrey, and I salute you.

What I find appalling as a Mexican, is your constant and insistent belittlement and beratement of the USA and it's citizens.

I apologise at this time for calling you an Idiot and Payaso. Maybe I should replace those words with misinformed. I find it humerous that you feel slighted and must protest. I don't see the Americans acting in the manner that you do when you treat them with disrespect.

I might suggest that you do a little studying and investigating to see just where we (Mexico) would be at this time without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money. All because of our own government's incompetence and corruption.

I feel very fortunate to be employeed by both the Mexican and US Federal Governments and have insights into matters that very few have. The two are as different as day and night. I admit that without my US education and help from &8203; innumerable Americans, I would not have the lifestyle that my family and I so enjoy.

I will continue to read and enjoy your posts pertaining to mongering but pray that the hatred for the USA might ebb just a little.

[Member #3453]

Your way of writing gives you away

Now, you are learning the ways of:
* Sherlock Holmes
* Lt. Columbo
* James Rockford
* Mannix,
* Hercule Poirot
* Adrian Monk
* Arsene Lupin
* Ashton-Kirk
* C. Auguste Dupin
* Dan Fortune
* Dan Tanna
* Dick Barton
* Honey West
* J. J. Gittes
* John Shaft
* Josef Matula
* Lew Archer
* Michael Shayne
* Mike Hammer
* Nero Wolfe
* Nick Carter
* Nick Ryder & Cody Allan (Riptide Detective Agency)
* Peter Gunn
* Philip Marlowe
* Remington Steele
* Richard Diamond
* Sam Spade
* Sherlock Holmes
* Simon & Simon
* Spenser
* The No 1 Ladies Detective Agency
* The Three Investigators
* Thomas Magnum
* Tommy Beresford
* Veronica Mars
* Amelia Sachs
* Amos Burke
* Andy Sipowicz, Detective
* Cagney and Lacey
* Charlie Chan
* Comissaire Maigret
* Dick Tracy
* Endeavour Morse, Detective Chief Inspector
* Guido Brunetti, Commissario
* Horst Schimanski
* Inspektor Columbo
* Inspector Hanaud
* Inspector Morimoto
* Inspector Trent
* Jack Regan, Detective Inspector
* Jane Tennison, Detective Chief Inspector
* Jim Taggart, Detective Chief Inspector
* Joe Friday, Sergeant
* John Rebus
* Kurt Wallander
* Lilly Rush
* Mac Taylor
* Martin Beck
* Nash Bridges
* Richard Jury
* Robert Goren
* Sergeant Cuff
* Sonny Crockett
* Starsky and Hutch
* Stephan Derrick
* T.J. Hooker
* Theo Kojak
* Thomas Lynley
* Detective Conan - Conan Edogawa
* Ellery Queen
* Father Brown
* Fu Manchu
* Goldy Bear
* Hercule Poirot
* Jessica Fletcher
* Kinky Friedman
* Lord Peter Wimsey
* Miss Marple
* Nancy Drew
* Paul Temple
* Sarah Keate
* Simon Templar
* The Famous Five
* The Hardy Boys
* Dr. Fitz
* Dr. R. Quincy
* Horatio Cane
* Jordan Cavanaugh
* Lincoln Rhyme
* Temperance Brennan
* Aloysius Pendergast
* Boston Blackie
* Bulldog Drummond
* Dr. House
* Flash Casey
* Jack Bauer
* Kathryn Dance
* Leroy Jethro Gibbs
* Perry Mason
* Robert Langdon
* The Great Merlini
* Tony Petrocelli
* Travis McGee
*Allan Pinkerton

VERY GOOD INDEED!!!

Didn't think he was Mexican either. Mexicanos generally like pointing the finger at the US too much. Even Mexican Americans are too deeply rooted in Mexican culture, pride, and patriotism to sometimes see themselves as Americans first. Dead giveaway that he is not Mexicano, and probably not Mexican/American either.

But, as an American, I do like his patriotism, and basically agree with him that Mexicanos are too quick to minimize their own internal problems, and are often blinded by their zeal toward blaming the US for everything that is wrong in Mexico. It is just as you said, a Mexicano would not say some of the things he said in his post, and not even, I believe, a Mexican/American would say them.

The problem with blaming the US is that it will not solve the huge monumental problems that exist in Mexico. Mexicanos are the only ones that can solve their own problems. Until Mexicanos come to that realization, and eliminate the blame distraction, they are doomed to endure these terrible plagues upon their society, just as Americans are doomed to endure their own brand of Hell unless the people rise up and put a stop to the insanity we find in our own country these days.

Notice I did not say the US is blameless, just that it is not primarily to blame for Mexico's problems. No, Mexico is to blame, and only Mexico can resolve their own problems.

[Larbo]

@unspongebob.

This is you, no? I am a US citizen that visits Monterrey for business, and adds the pleasure of mongering in the evenings. I most certainly am not an invention of any other person on this site!

My opinions, when I choose to express them, are mine and mine alone. If I wish to be drawn into a discussion, it is my choice.

I do not like to be accused of being someone else.

[MonterreyDude]

You also know my friend, that people in Monterrey place the blame on Americans and the US at the very end of the list, openly blaming the goverment and the political parties ahead of the US of A.

Monterrey is so Americanized and copies so much the US style of life that only being here for a peroid of time makes you realize that, and USB is a witness to said thing.


Now, you are learning the ways of:

* Sherlock Holmes.

* Lt. Columbo.

* James Rockford.

* Mannix,

* Hercule Poirot.

* Adrian Monk.

* Arsene Lupin.

* Ashton-Kirk.

* C. Auguste Dupin.

* Dan Fortune.

* Dan Tanna.

* Dick Barton.

* Honey West.

* J. J. Gittes.

* John Shaft.

* Josef Matula.

* Lew Archer.

* Michael Shayne.

* Mike Hammer.

* Nero Wolfe.

* Nick Carter.

* Nick Ryder & Cody Allan (Riptide Detective Agency)

* Peter Gunn.

* Philip Marlowe.

* Remington Steele.

* Richard Diamond.

* Sam Spade.

* Sherlock Holmes.

* Simon & Simon.

* Spenser.

* The No 1 Ladies Detective Agency.

* The Three Investigators.

* Thomas Magnum.

* Tommy Beresford.

* Veronica Mars.

* Amelia Sachs.

* Amos Burke.

* Andy Sipowicz, Detective.

* Cagney and Lacey.

* Charlie Chan.

* Comissaire Maigret.

* Dick Tracy.

* Endeavour Morse, Detective Chief Inspector.

* Guido Brunetti, Commissario.

* Horst Schimanski.

* Inspektor Columbo.

* Inspector Hanaud.

* Inspector Morimoto.

* Inspector Trent.

* Jack Regan, Detective Inspector.

* Jane Tennison, Detective Chief Inspector.

* Jim Taggart, Detective Chief Inspector.

* Joe Friday, Sergeant.

* John Rebus.

* Kurt Wallander.

* Lilly Rush.

* Mac Taylor.

* Martin Beck.

* Nash Bridges.

* Richard Jury.

* Robert Goren.

* Sergeant Cuff.

* Sonny Crockett.

* Starsky and Hutch.

* Stephan Derrick.

* T. J. Hooker.

* Theo Kojak.

* Thomas Lynley.

* Detective Conan. Conan Edogawa.

* Ellery Queen.

* Father Brown.

* Fu Manchu.

* Goldy Bear.

* Hercule Poirot.

* Jessica Fletcher.

* Kinky Friedman.

* Lord Peter Wimsey.

* Miss Marple.

* Nancy Drew.

* Paul Temple.

* Sarah Keate.

* Simon Templar.

* The Famous Five.

* The Hardy Boys.

* Dr. Fitz.

* Dr. R. Quincy.

* Horatio Cane.

* Jordan Cavanaugh.

* Lincoln Rhyme.

* Temperance Brennan.

* Aloysius Pendergast.

* Boston Blackie.

* Bulldog Drummond.

* Dr. House.

* Flash Casey.

* Jack Bauer.

* Kathryn Dance.

* Leroy Jethro Gibbs.

* Perry Mason.

* Robert Langdon.

* The Great Merlini.

* Tony Petrocelli.

* Travis McGee.

*Allan Pinkerton.

VERY GOOD INDEED!

Didn't think he was Mexican either. Mexicanos generally like pointing the finger at the US too much. Even Mexican Americans are too deeply rooted in Mexican culture, pride, and patriotism to sometimes see themselves as Americans first. Dead giveaway that he is not Mexicano, and probably not Mexican / American either.

But, as an American, I do like his patriotism, and basically agree with him that Mexicanos are too quick to minimize their own internal problems, and are often blinded by their zeal toward blaming the US for everything that is wrong in Mexico. It is just as you said, a Mexicano would not say some of the things he said in his post, and not even, I believe, a Mexican / American would say them.

The problem with blaming the US is that it will not solve the huge monumental problems that exist in Mexico. Mexicanos are the only ones that can solve their own problems. Until Mexicanos come to that realization, and eliminate the blame distraction, they are doomed to endure these terrible plagues upon their society, just as Americans are doomed to endure their own brand of Hell unless the people rise up and put a stop to the insanity we find in our own country these days.

Notice I did not say the US is blameless, just that it is not primarily to blame for Mexico's problems. No, Mexico is to blame, and only Mexico can resolve their own problems.

[El Cazador]

I used trustee and the choke out terms based on what USB previously wrote. I agree with USB about the dangers in Mexico, that's all. Peace.I would have responded to you earlier but I wanted to wait for my friend, who speaks English, to translate for me so there would be no discrepancies.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1090866

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1112218

I believe that you are mistaken. Your taxi ¨choke-out¨ report comes after Unospongebob's report. Maybe you are confused and can explain?

And it is good to see that you are such a strong supporter of Unospongebob.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1116737

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1117232

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1127204

I took the time to read some of your reports and found many similarities between you and Angelmio. For instance:

1. You and Angelmio started writing your first reports within three days of each other. Incidently, this is the same time that Unospongebob was having arguments with both ChesterBoy and Maruis67 regarding the safety of Monterrey.

2. You both more or less made 15 posts in your first three days of posting here.

3. Within the first three days, you both asked for advice and mention taking a bus to San Luis Potosi.

4. You both are in adulation of Unospongebob and have questioned my credibility.

Now this may seem somewhat strange but not as strange as Larbo. Larbo joins the forum and his first post is again, in adulation, of Unospongebob. Also, his second post is again, to criticize me, such as you and Angelmio.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1115188

And then there is SmithandWesson.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1126174

And last but not least is Magnas Coronadas. Magnas joins the forom to, you guessed it, profess his adulation for Unospongebob and again, you guessed it, criticize and question my credibility. Also, he claims to be Mexicano that speaks Spanish yet makes an error in his report by referring to women thieves as ladrones. No mexicano, drugged or drunk, would ever refer to them as ladrones as they are ladronas. Even a small child would never make this mistake.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1117076

[El Cazador]

I would have responded to you earlier but I wanted to wait for my friend, who speaks English, to translate for me so there would be no discrepancies.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1090866

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1112218

I believe that you are mistaken. Your taxi ¨choke-out¨ report comes after Unospongebob's report. Maybe you are confused and can explain?

And it is good to see that you are such a strong supporter of Unospongebob.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1116737

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1117232

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1127204

I took the time to read some of your reports and found many similarities between you and Angelmio. For instance:

1. You and Angelmio started writing your first reports within three days of each other. Incidently, this is the same time that Unospongebob was having arguments with both ChesterBoy and Maruis67 regarding the safety of Monterrey.

2. You both more or less made 15 posts in your first three days of posting here.

3. Within the first three days, you both asked for advice and mention taking a bus to San Luis Potosi.

4. You both are in adulation of Unospongebob and have questioned my credibility.

Now this may seem somewhat strange but not as strange as Larbo. Larbo joins the forum and his first post is again, in adulation, of Unospongebob. Also, his second post is again, to criticize me, such as you and Angelmio.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1115188

And then there is SmithandWesson.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1126174

And last but not least is Magnas Coronadas. Magnas joins the forom to, you guessed it, profess his adulation for Unospongebob and again, you guessed it, criticize and question my credibility. Also, he claims to be Mexicano that speaks Spanish yet makes an error in his report by referring to women thieves as ladrones. No mexicano, drugged or drunk, would ever refer to them as ladrones as they are ladronas. Even a small child would never make this mistake.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1117076Your choke-out report come on 11-11-2010, this before Unospongebobs report on 1-14-2011. How do you previously read his report when his is made after you report?

[Cdiazgto]

"You are not a Mexican" I am as Mexican as you are. Carlos Santana Salvador de Diaz. Born Leon Guanajuato.

"You are a racist. We Mexicans are classists". Classists = racist I see nothing that I wrote that was racist.

"If you were a Mexican, which you are not, EVERY SINGLE LIVING MEXICAN says that guns come from the US".

Lot of misinformed people, guns come from everywhere, right. With all of your reading, surely YOU know the truth.

"If you are not a Monger in Monterrey, but yes, a Mexican. WHY are you reading the ISG?

Why, tell us, please pretty please tells us, why it turns out that you are here in this precise moment of the existence of this forum?" No, not a monger. Actually ISG came up during an investigation into the murder of a Mexican citizen last year in Argentina.

"If you are a Mexican you would be reading the Mexican forums, groups, blogs. Why stick to a forum that is limited in all aspects?" I am not in the habit of reading any forums. As I said this one came up during an investigation. I have no need for forums dealing with prostitution.

" (Please, convince me of the opposite, I want to read from you, if you are a Mexican, that drug trade that ends in the US has Mexico in a state of war)." I agree 100, but how would that prove I am Mexican. Most (99. 9%) of my American associates also agree.

"There are some that want the US to invade Mexico, and that includes Republicans and the common citizen." At this point in time, might not be such a bad idea.

"Cause we have met in other forums and you hate me like hell. Right?" No Sir, we have never met. I am not a member of any other forum.

"So easy to detect your meaning reading between your lines." There is nothing between the lines, just what I wrote.

USB.

"Didn't think he was Mexican either. Mexicanos generally like pointing the finger at the US too much. Even Mexican Americans are too deeply rooted in Mexican culture, pride, and patriotism to sometimes see themselves as Americans first. Dead giveaway that he is not Mexicano, and probably not Mexican / American either."

Key word "generally". I have found over the years that people from Monterrey generally dance to a different drummer. The farther from Monterrey you travel the more ideology changes. I once accepted a case in Monterrey and was there for 13 months. That was enough for me. I no longer accept assignments to Monterrey. Because I don't point fingers, I am not Mexican? Who is the Psychologist here?

Perhaps I was a little too quick to offer my apology but I stick by it. But my original thoughts are imbedded in my mind.

Thanks for the invaluable information you have provided to this forum.

So everyone stand up and shout Hoo-ray. This is my last post to the Monterrey forum.

[El Cazador]

I will not answer one single post of yours after this:

I am not misinformed.

You are not a Mexican. Your way of writing gives you away (tip, we Mexicans do not say "without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money", we never express ourselves of Americans that way. We Mexicans, living in Monterrey do not bend over backwards to "American Taxpayers", it's the other way around, as if you wouldn't know).

You are a racist. We Mexicans are classists.

So easy to detect your meaning reading between your lines.

Only an American would say this: "I might suggest that you do a little studying and investigating to see just where we (Mexico) would be at this time without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money. All because of our own government's incompetence and corruption."

(If you were a Mexican you would say that Mexico is alive thanks to the scarifice of millions of Mexican taxpayers)

If you were a Mexican, which you are not, EVERY SINGLE LIVING MEXICAN says that guns come from the US.

Only Americans say the opposite.

By the way, the gun that killed the Mexican agent in San Luis Potosi has been traced to Texas.

God, this is so stupid to read from a "Mexican": "I might suggest that you do a little studying and investigating to see just where we (Mexico) would be at this time without the millions of dollars of American tax payers' money. All because of our own government's incompetence and corruption."

(Only and American would be so falsely proud to rub my nose in taxpayers help money, just to remind me)

(How about the millions of dollars the drug users in the US invest in drugs, that have us in the position we are now in?)

(Please, convince me of the opposite, I want to read from you, if you are a Mexican, that drug trade that ends in the US has Mexico in a state of war).

"No one denies your impeccable record of informing and helping mongers with issues pertaining to Monterrey, and I salute you."

(Six posts and you know me by heart. Yes I have an excelent track record).

"pray that the hatred for the USA might ebb just a little."

(You are truely not a Mexican. Total give away. How about the total hatered for Mexicans in the US? There are some that want the US to invade Mexico, and that includes Republicans and the common citizen. Yes, Iam informed.

I read almost on a daily basis, the NY Times, the LA Times, The Washington Post, Fox News, ABC, CBS. 60 Minutes, The Chicago Tribune, The Huffington Post, Politico, El Norte, El Universal, Milenio and yes obviously, Televisa).

Another give away.

And Iam not a Deepak Chopra follower. I do not believe in coincidences.

If you are not a Monger in Monterrey, but yes, a Mexican. WHY are you reading the ISG?

Why, tell us, please pretty please tells us, why it turns out that you are here in this precise moment of the existence of this forum?

Why just up to now, you decide to intervene?

If you are a Mexican you would be reading the Mexican forums, groups, blogs. Why stick to a forum that is limited in all aspects?

Not minimizing the value of the ISG, but it is nothing compared to the Mexican forums where prostitution can openly be mentioned, talked about and singled out.

Cause truth be said, I might quarrel with my fellow mongers, but their aim is to monger, to find girls, hookers, SC girls.

And they have a track record of posts that say that and can be found here and in other forums.

This discussion is just a side conversation during coffee break.

Non trascendental, contrary to your posts.

Cause we have met in other forums and you hate me like hell. Right?

Oh and yes, and I honestly mean it.

Apologies accepted. Not trying to get in the middle of your little dispute, but I don't think you know mexicanos who ever refer to women thieves as ladrones as opposed to ladronas, no? That should be a huge tip-off right there that he might be a Gringo that make the report, no? Just my two cents.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1127204